# Physical Fitness (Jogging, Diet, Cardiovascular, and Strength )



## silverhorse86

hello all,
i was just wondering if anyone could help me out with something. I have to lose about 15 pounds before enlisting so i was wondering if you could help me find out an excersize routine to do in the gym and a diet plan. Thanx to all who help.  :warstory:


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## smoke

I am going through the same thing at the moment and happen to know a dietitian so i can help with diet. It really isnt rocket sience basicaly lots of fruit and veggies as well as wholegrains(8 servings total daily),stay away from fat and sodium. Water or skim/soy milk are all you need, sport drinks are useless and get it out of your head that you need protein suppliments such as drinks. If your going to take vitamins a basic multi vitamin will do fine,anything else is overkill since you will be consuming plenty of foods rich with them.Also stay away from beer you lush     

if you have anymore questions feel free to ask and ill relay them on to my dietitian friend also this site should help

Dietitians of Canada


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## combat_medic

if you‘re trying to lose weight, you need to do a fat burn-type cardio. this means that you want to be operating at 60-70% of your maximum heart rate (220 minus your age). So, if you‘re 20 years old, you want a heart rate of 130ish. This involves long periods of time doing lighter excercises. Running until you drop won‘t help. Going for a jog, a treadmill at the gym, stationary bike (or a real one), swimming is <u>excellent</u> for cardio. Anything you can do to work your body at a medium level will help reduce fat. 

If you don‘t know how to check your pulse, put your index and second finger (NOT your thumb) on your neck or wrist and count how many beats in 10 seconds. Multiply that number by 6 and you have your heart rate. 

Other advice; try to do the cardio thing for a longer period of time at a lower intensity rather than short bursts of high energy. It‘s better for your heart and will help you lose weight faster, also try to do it once in the morning and once inthe afternoon/evening. Don‘t eat anything after 8pm, try to cut out a lot of red meat, and watch your carbohydrate intake. Drink at least a couple litres of water every day, and make sure you‘re getting 8 hours of sleep. Any more questions and you can send me a private message if you want.


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## smoke

What i did first was find out from my doctor what my healthy body weight was then i  was able to set  a goal. You may think you need to lose 15lbs but the most important thing is to remain healthy throughout the whole process. I averaged 1lbs lost per week and that was with moderate exercise. I was told by my doctor and dietitian that losing 3 pounds a week would be possible, but alas i did not have the willpower early on and saw very little progress as a result. REMEMBER these numbers only apply to myself and by no means are they universal, everyone is different.Talk to your doctor and find out what would apply to you and while your there make sure you get the ok from him to start your workout routine.

Oh and dont take any of those performance enhancers,I lost a friend to ephedrine


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## toms3

Hi AaRoN_RoGeRs

Combat Medic and Stuble Jumper have very sound advice.  Here are a few points and referances I would like to add.

1st - "Muscles".  There is a notion out there that you can turn fat into muscle...this is false.  However, the more muscle you have the more fat you burn (burnt as fuel).  You only have a short period of time, however,  think of muscle building as well.  I am not saying become a body builder, its more like an exchange of muscle for fat.   Be careful here....some people freak out when they work out so hard but see their weight stay the same or even go up....that is becuase muscle weighs more than fat, (you can call it a" good weight gain").  Further to that, 1 lb of muscle is more dense and takes up less volume then 1 lb of fat...(if that makes sense).

2nd - Sports drinks and Protien powder...I disagree with stuble_jumber on this.  I feel they have their place.  They should not be relied on, but used as a tool when needed.  Depending on how hard you are working out a sport drink is very helpful.  There is a condition called "Hyponatremia". It‘s basically a form of dehydration even though you are drinking large volumes of water.   During hard work outs you loose alot of Sodium via your sweat.  Sodium (electrolite) is important to the proper fuction of your muscles.  If you have had a large loose of Sodium and have been drinking large volumes of water, you will actually be diluting the remaining Sodium in your system...resulting in a form of dehydration.  I will include a link at the bottom for a better explanation.   Sport drinks such as Gatorade help replace your electorlites.  So continue to drink lots of water, but also sip on a sports drink while you work out.

Here is a link to a SEALs recruiting page for their pre-selection PT program.  http://www.sealchallenge.navy.mil/workout.htm    It has 2 levels and talks about nutrition.  Once your offically in the CF, you can requiest a copy of the JTF2 PT program from your local PSP....it also has a good PT program and addresses other issues such as overtraining and nutrition.  You can tailor the programs to fit your present abilites, then work up from there.

Here is the link for more info on Hyponatremia.  http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3859&rd=1 

I hope this of some help...good luck


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## Brad Sallows

The "Body for Life" program actually worked as advertised for me, twice.  It does take discipline, but you really can eat all you want on the "day off".  (I certainly did, and I was still able to lose 1kg per week like clockwork.)  You can‘t just turn it on (this week) and off (next week); I suspect you need to maintain the program for at least 4-6 weeks.


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## dimmer

O.K. I know that its a topic of great importance however im not sure that my curiosity has been satisfied as to this one(two) questions,As a smoker who recently quit  and someone of advanced age (mid 20‘s)how do the instructers rate a persons fitness level? is it based on the chart we are given in the req pkg? or is it the coopers test also how soon do they let you know if your lagging (out of shape) and are we allowed to do extra pt training on our own if we feel that its needed or has been sugested my big concern is that my cardio situation is lacking even though ive been running everyday for a couple mnths now and im not seeing any real improvement although im not hacking as much crap up so i guess thats an improvement. lol any advice would be appreciated,no sarcasim needed though THANX.


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## ab136

Running is hard.  I‘ve been runnning for years and for someone starting out I tell them not to worry about their time to distance ratio.  Put a watch on and set it for 10 or 15 minutes.  When the watch goes off turn around and go home.  Do this until you can without exertion; then increase it to 15 or 20 minutes and so on.  Set youself up with a good posture and arm swing, head up. You‘ll do good.  First you get good..then you get fast.


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## RJG

Within the past month I have been jogging outside to get back in shape. I used to be able to run ten kilometers with no problem, but recently I noticed that after one kilometer my chest is killing me. I am extremely fit when it comes to weightlifting, so when I am done jogging my legs and arms are not hurting at all.

My question is, does my chest hurt because I am out of shape or because it is so cold outside and I am taking in huge amounts of fridged air into my lungs? If it‘s the cold is there anything I can do or should I just bare it and keep running?

Lastly at what pace should I go, I time myself and yesterday I finished 2 klicks in under seven minutes. Is this too fast, is it too slow?


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## Jungle

> Originally posted by RJG:
> [qb]
> Lastly at what pace should I go, I time myself and yesterday I finished 2 klicks in under seven minutes. Is this too fast, is it too slow? [/qb]


The speed depends on many factors, like distance/ duration of run, terrain etc... But to know if you are running at the right speed, you have to check on your heartrate and ensure it is in the "training zone". A simple way to find your trg zone: 200 - your age: maximum heartbeats per minute; maximum - 30: minimum heartbeats per minute. Divide these numbers by 6 and you have references for 10 sec count.


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## Spr.Earl

Also work up slowly every other day untill you can keep the pace you once could do.


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## Lajeunesse

Also being Phsyically fit (like your arms and legs) have nothing to do with cardio (your lungs) just take it easy and slow you need to improve on your cardio it hurts now because you proabaly stopped running or even doing things that makes you  breathe heavily so your cardio has decreased. Think of it as working out your abs...you work them till you can grate cheese on them and then you stop working them out and sit around and eat fatty food or whatever. Before you know it your abs or covered in a nice layer of fat or lazyness and you find that yu cant do as many lets say crunches as you could when they were top shape. 

So advice to take here would be to keep up on your jogging work outs ect.. or expect them to decrease in efficientcy


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## LilMissChicky

RJG, 
Hopefully, this will help   

Sport psychology:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/psych.htm 

Healthy eating guide:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/eating.htm 

Injury Prevention:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/injury.htm 

Stitch:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/stitch.htm 

5 P‘s of running forms:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/runform.htm 

Speed training:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/speed.htm 

Fartlek:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/fartlek.htm 

Hillwork:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/hilltrain.htm 

5-K Training Guide: Novice
 http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-51-55-637,FF.html?site=RunnersWorld 

5-K Training Guide: Advanced
 http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-51-55-638,FF.html?site=RunnersWorld 

10-K Training Guide: Novice
 http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-51-55-639,FF.html?site=RunnersWorld 

10-K Training Guide: Advanced
 http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-51-55-640,FF.html?site=RunnersWorld 

Distance converter
 http://www.onlineconversion.com/ 

Your Ideal weight:
 http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/idealw.htm


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## Gryphon

My question is, i can do everything, push ups, sit ups, but i can‘t run... i don‘t know why.. i get winded very easily.. any suggestions on how to increase my running?


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## Lexi

> Originally posted by gryphon664:
> [qb] My question is, i can do everything, push ups, sit ups, but i can‘t run... i don‘t know why.. i get winded very easily.. any suggestions on how to increase my running? [/qb]


You‘re probably getting winded because you‘re doing more than your lungs are really capable of.
Try sprinting from one lamppost to the next, then walking, then jogging, then walking, then sprinting ect. You might want to try swimming, because I know that increases your cardio capabilities. 

While running you could also try going slower or breathing slowly in through your nose and out through your mouth instead of gasping, huffing and puffing.

Hope that helps.


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## Spartan

i‘m trying to get started in running regularly, I‘m just wondering should I be running with weight in a back pack, (knew my univ textbooks were good for something     )
 is it bad to? is it better to?

or should I do a combination of both running with/without weight as well things like wind sprints... 
or should I just run with out weight, and do long runs and things like wind sprints etc


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## ab136

I have a problem as well. I can run and do sit-ups but I can‘t do many push-ups.  When I work out should I target my tricepts?  I read a thread about the CF push-ups being hard to do correctly and that tricept strength is a must. Any feed back is appreciated


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## Tyrnagog

ab135... basically... the best way to do more push-ups is to do push-ups.  It is a good workout which will exercise all of the muscles in your arms, shoulders, back, etc. which are neccesary to do push ups.  Keep at it, doing multiple sets and reps, and you will find yourself doing more and more.

You may want to spice things up by elevating your feet onto a gym bench.  A lot harder to do, but it works those muscles that much harder, and (I found anyway) gave me more muscular power...

That‘s just what I have done...


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## md200

To add onto what Tyrnagog said about adding variety to your pushup workout.You can also do them with your hands wide,hands close,1 armed pushups,plyometric pushups,hands on one of those large exercise balls (those are great for building up your stability muscles).
Here are a few links with good workouts and tips
www.getfitnow.com
www.baseops.net/basictraining/navyseals/warningorder.html
www.stewsmith.com (lots of good tips and books)


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## combat_medic

GirlFiredUp said:
			
		

> Haha... normal if you're a cyborg maybe..   I guess I could get be showered in 10 min but I don't move that quick in the morning.. throw in getting dressed and eating a breakfast and the fact I'm a female... ok that says it all...we generally take longer than men ... hmmm..



That's horse$hit (pardon my French)! I'm also female and I'm one of the fastest people to get ready in the morning, especially on course and in the field. If you shower before bed and have clothing ready to go, you can be up and ready in under 5 minutes. Also, with the military, women don't have to shave in the mornings, so unless you're fiddling unnecessarily with hair and makeup, you should take less time to get ready than the guys. I think my land speed record (under duress) while on course was from sleeping to formed up in combats in 3 minutes. Courses are very often like that, so be prepared. No time for niceties when you're being stood to at the crack of dawn.


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## RebornXmetalhead

What happened to the good ol pushups? Are they not good anymore?
I was always told that pushups build many parts at once (arms, back, shoulders, abs, chest..)
I was also told that working out on machines is bad for muscle developement because you grow out of proportion.. whereas free weights is better.

I don't know though, please correct me if I'm wrong.

All I do is pushups, situps, squats, crunches and situps, arm curls... that's pretty much it.

I'll start doing free weights soon, I'll just study on it and make sure I get the right exercises and make sure I'm doing them right.


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## Fogpatrol 1.0

I just go to the gym once every 2 days.  20 mins of cardio + an overall workout that touch pretty much all muscles + military chinups, pushups and situps.  It take me 90 mins to 2 hours and im usually tired as hell afterward.

My goal is to be above average when Basic Training start.


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## Freight_Train

Fogpatrol 1.0 said:
			
		

> Your training routine is too harsh.   You risk hurting yourself before going to basic training and that would be bad.
> 
> There's no point in doing that many push-ups since you don't leave time for your muscles to rest.   Also, you would benefit more from them if you were doing 3 sets in a row instead of spread around during the day like that.
> 
> You're pretty good if you can keep up with this until you are send to basic training, but seriously no one need to do that much.



Spreading pushups and sit ups throughout the day is actually based on some sound scientific theory, mostly done in Eastern Europe, when the Communist Bloc was still around.  I have included a link to a newsletter, MilFit, that specifically discusses improving your push up total, you will find it on page 2 (http://www.specialtactics.com/MILFIT4.pdf).  Like any workout, eventually your body will adapt and you will need to change your program.  Just my .02.


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## quebecrunner

I really got a problem: i hate gyms even if i go 1 time per week. I'm a long distance runner, loving to run outside about 6 days per weeks and 2 time per day occasionally. I usually run about 70 - 90km per week. But i know i have to do some weight lifting. Do any of you have a way to stick to a program?


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## belkin81

quebec runner,

Before going on a run, do pushups and situps till failure and also after you come back. 4 times a day till failures on both 6 days a week in a month you will be millions of miles from where you started


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## maggiemagooo

wow all this discussion of workout routines has me all boggled!  i'm in the process of trying to get myself in shape .. i'm an active person, always on the go...hiking, playing baseball etc.. but i have definitely gotten out of shape over the years.
I've started working out slowly by doing situps and pushups in the morning when i wake up.. i bike every evening on the back roads which have alot of hills- my bike runs are approx. 20 kms...and then i do situps, and handgrips after. I don't go to a gym because i really can't afford a membership, so i have a few free weights around to do bicep /tricep curls?? i have just started running again, but it is a struggle , my breathing is horrible!!! And i'm pathetic at pushups- i can't even do a mens pushup?  Any suggestions that would improve my workout and results would be appreciated!!! Oh and by the way... great job to all of you who have succeeded in getting themselves into great shape!!! Hopefully i'll be one of them soon!!!


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## belkin81

maggie. Just do women push ups then after you can do alot of those, do men ones. You want to run better? Only way is to run more. Plus watch your diet, don't over kill it just stay away from sugar, don't eat late at night


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## Northern Touch

Figured I may throw out an AB work out suggestion.  First off, this is for people who wish to strengthen each part of their abdominals in one basic excercise, and I warn you, its not for those of you with weaker abs.  I can do about 80 or more sit ups but this absolutly rips my abs.  It's called 5 minute abs, 1 minute per excercise but I wont lie, I can only do each excercise for 40 seconds, so I call mine 3:20 abs.   

The point of this is to do each excercise for 1 minute, and then switch to the next right away, thus giving yourself a full 5 minute ab workout.

Ex 1.  Lie with your back on the floor, straighten your legs, and begin lifting them about a foot to a foot and a half off the ground, almost like your walking but with your back on the ground.  Don't let your feet touch the ground, they should come as far down as possible without touching the ground.  As one foot goes down, the other shoudl be going up.  Do that for one minute.

Ex 2.  Put your legs straight into the air, and begin lifting your butt off the ground. It'll feel uncomfortable at first but you'll get used to it.  This works your high abs.  Make sure not to put your hans under your hips for support.  Do that for one minute.

Ex 3. Crunches.  Yup, just do crunches for one minute.  NOT SIT UPS....crunches.

Ex 4. Straighten both legs out, keeping them off the ground and together.  Bring them into your chest, or as far into your body as you can, and then straighten them out again.  Like excercise 1, make sure not to let your feet touch the ground, and keep them straight.  Do for one minute.

Ex. 5.  Straighten your legs up into the air again , but this time bring them down to one side of your body, like your twisting yourself on the way down almost.  Then to the other side, and back and forth you go.  Do for one minute.

Now feel the burn.  I normally try to do one set using 40 second intervals, and a second one doing 30 seconds intervals.  Trust me, you WILL feel the burn.


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## drebk

Hrm, honestly, I was so worried about my being in good enough shape for the entry PT, but its honestly nothing to worry about, it is all very easy, and   I know people are going to freak out anyways, but they are minimums, which actually does mean, if you do better than them, they CAN'T deny your enrollment based on poor physical performance,   but don't just waltz in either, its a career path, be as prepared as you can be, but don't kill yourself and don't slack off either, its never too late to start, but it can be too early! (burn out, give up, etc) 



			
				Jana said:
			
		

> combat_medic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pushups and situps are an ok exercise, but they are very hard on the body and there are many other exercises that are far better for targeting specific muscle groups and aren't as hard on your joints and back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah? how are push ups and situps hard on your body (i'm not meaning this in a rude way, just wondering cus i've never heard that)
Click to expand...


As for sit-ups/push-ups being hard on the body, they are. Plain and simple. just like a stepper or elipital machine is easier on the joints then running up stairs, or actually running outside, they are a form of cheating. Also, free weights are much better than machines if you don't want to do push-ups, but nothing can replace the push-up, when preparing for training courses, b/c that's the exact excercise you will be expected to do, you can't tell your instructer that u can bench twice your own weight, and expect him to find you a bench press while everyone else is going counting off-down-up-down-up ;-).  But, for me personally, I had been going to the gym 3 days a week regularly for 6mos doing various strength training exercises, all the important major muscles and stabalizers and minor muscle groups as well, ( I was using the RCMP preparation for the RPAT as a guide), however, when i decided to focus more on preparing for BMQ and swapped the bench press for push-ups, i found that at the early stages, I would have to stop not because of muscle burn or fatigue, but b/c my joints would be unbearably sore, far before my muscles were taxed my joints were telling me to stop, this went away for me after about 5sessions worth of push-ups/sit-ups, (one session: 1 set of 35, 1 set of 25, 1 set of 'till burn-out')


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## Freight_Train

I agree with drebk, nothing will improve your pushup total more than...pushups.  I have benched (in fact I find it hurts my left shoulder if I overdo them) a lot over the years and to be honest have done nothing but pushups since January and was pleasently surprized to find that my chest has actually grown.  Progressively add sets and reps and you will be amazed at your progress.  Doing too many situps can cause the overdevelopment of the hip flexor and can cause back problems.  Make sure you throw other ab exercises in but remember nothing will improve your sit up total like...situps.
Greg


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## Nat. Cap. Girl

Freight_Train said:
			
		

> I agree with drebk, nothing will improve your pushup total more than...pushups.   I have benched (in fact I find it hurts my left shoulder if I overdo them) a lot over the years and to be honest have done nothing but pushups since January and was pleasently surprized to find that my chest has actually grown.   Progressively add sets and reps and you will be amazed at your progress.   Doing too many situps can cause the overdevelopment of the hip flexor and can cause back problems.   Make sure you throw other ab exercises in but remember nothing will improve your sit up total like...situps.
> Greg



is it not also true though that if you don't have strong enough abs that you can get back problems from that as well?


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## Freight_Train

Yes, you need to develop the core.  Sit ups are not actually that great of an ab exercise.  I actually had my hip flexors cramp up on me one day after I tested on them.  Hurt like hell.


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## Freight_Train

Not sure where you are starting from but there are ton's of resources on the web, this seems like a good one - http://www.netfit.co.uk/abdominals-web-site.htm
Pick your level and go!  Try to mix things up on a regular basis, even just changing the order of the exercises will "confuse" your muscles and keep things fresh.
Good luck,
Greg


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## drebk

Also, think about investing in a exercise ball if you don't like going to the gym, they are worth their weight in platinum for working out your core muscles, which are the cause of lots of injuries, too strong major muscles that overwork the weak stabalizers and down you go like a sack of taters, then just hop online and find the right excercises for your goals... oh, and it proabably helps to have a sibling that is a practicing physiotherapist to give u pointers and let u know when u are cheating =P


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## Freight_Train

Try this one, I call them Holly's after Cory Holly who originally showed them to me at a seminar I attended.   He is a natural master bodybuilding champ.   You will need a chin up bar to do them.   Take a supinated grip, palms facing you, pull yourself up so that you are in a flexed arm hang with approx 90 degree angle on your arms and your eye's approximately even with the bar facing away from the wall.   Tuck your chin into your chest and bring your knee's up as you rotate your body up so that your back is approximately parallel to the floor.   Or as he describes them on his website, "Hanging Knee Raise (underhand grip on the chinning bar, bend arms at elbows slightly, raise knees above head through arms)"   I do 2 to 4 sets of only 8 reps as part of my ab routine and I definitely find them the most challenging.   I hope my description is clear enough, if you are finding them too easy, you are doing them wrong!
Greg


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## Pugnacious

Greetings!
All good info this is a great topic!

Advice from a 35 year old fart Civi, and long time Martial Artist...
Don't underestimate the value of recovery and rest,  ditch diggers are seldom well built as they don't often allow time to rest from one day to another.  
Watch old Italian stonemasons work...efficient, well paced, and they do this till they are 80+, and even then capable of getting a death grip on yah.

As others on this topic have mentioned, working the upper body one day and work the lower the next is a good idea.
It keeps yah fresh, the blood pumping, allows for recovery, and like the old saying goes "often a change is as good as a rest".

Also keep it simple...I've never seen a workout routine that needed to be complex, and some of the best athletes in the world have gotten that way by good old fashioned free weights, and the regular old fashion "up's"  i.e...push-ups, chin-ups, and sit-ups.

Having said that some people need regular routine change to keep things from going stale..others don't.

My goal is to look up the requirements, and aim for 5 times the amount as a personal goal.

My old Modern Arnis instructor always drilled into us.."how you train is how you are going to react".
Other clubs couldn't touch us in martial ability.

Fin' have fun...it's not worth doing if yah can't have fun at it.
Cheers!
P.


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## Butters

I don't see why people get to worked up about the whole physical test of the application process, it really isn't that hard.

All you need to do is 19 sit-ups, 19 push-ups, 6 chin-ups (which isn't tested), step test, handgrip test,  and swim (which also isn't tested). To train for these doesn't take long, you could probably build up to these requirements in 8 weeks (2months).

Step Test: Run monday, wensday, friday for the first 3 weeks. About 3-4Km don't worry about time, pace yourself so you can make it there without stopping. If you have to jogg super slow so it's almost like you're walking. Week 4 take off for resting so you don't get injured. Week 5 run 3-4KM at a pace of 8:30 per 1.5KM (1mile). Week 6-8 take it up to 5km. If you have a gym pass, great! Go to the gym and use that stepmaster. It will be a big help.

Push-ups: Only thing to help do better in these is more and more push-ups. You can try push-up prymids (search for on google). Also you can build up your triceps.

Sit-ups: I'm sure everyone knows how to do these  :-\. More and more sit-ups will build you up.

Handgrip: Buy one of those little sand bag ball thinggys (search on google), I don't see the need why to though that handgrip test is pretty easy. Also try squeezing things often, like bike leavers ect.


Don't over do any of these you might get injured if you're not used to exercise.


Also strech for 15minutes EVERYDAY before you do anything/


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## e_pelletier

first of all

having abs that show, dont mean anything, as long as you working out your abs you'll be fine.

if you wanna see them you gotta watch your diet , cut all that crap you eat, out of it, and you abs will start popping up. 

Heres are my trades and my work out plan...
combat ing,
infantry soldier,
armored soldier...

i go to the gym 5 days a week (been doing that for almost 10 years) i do my regular work out plan,

at the end i do 1 set of sit ups (best # of reps in a minute, about 40) then i do 3 set of crunches (slow reps) and 3 sets of leg raises (slowl reps) 

after i hit my chin ups (1 set of about 10 to 12) then i hit my push ups (1 set of about 40 reps) and finish up with a 32 minutes jog that gives me my 6 km (3.75 miles), sometimes ill go 10 km (6.25 miles) in 50 minutes or so (i dont do that 10 km run very often cause i hate running)

i try to hit my run's at least 4 times a weeks and maximum 6 times a week.


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## spenco

Try this routine for your pushups and situps, I got it off the net and it has done wonders for me.  I also have one for running, let me know if you want me to post that one too.


PHYSICAL TRAINING SCHEDULE I (Mon/Wed/Fri) 
SETS OF REPETITIONS 
WEEK #1: 4X15 PUSHUPS 
4X20 SITUPS 
3X3 PULL UPS 
WEEK #2: 5X20 PUSHUPS 
5X20 SITUPS 
3X3 PULL UPS 
WEEK #3,4: 5X25 PUSHUPS 
5X25 SITUPS 
3X4 PULL UPS 
WEEK #5,6: 6X25 PUSHUPS 
6X25 SITUPS 
2X8 PULL UPS 
WEEK #7,8: 6X30 PUSHUPS 
6X30 SITUPS 
2X10 PULL UPS 
WEEK #9: 6X30 PUSHUPS 
6X30 SITUPS 
3X10 PULL UPS


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## m_a_c

I think if you add a good run on Tuesday and Thursday its a great work out plan.  IMHO


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## NavyGrunt

Futuretrooper said:
			
		

> I'm right now looking at two seperate jobs in the military, either the Military Police or the Infantry. Right now my workout is as follows
> 
> 3 sets of 30 pushups
> 3 sets of 35 situps
> run 3-6 miles
> 
> I can benchpress 325 pounds.
> 
> I do all of these excersizes atleast 3 times a week. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can improve my physical fitness.
> 
> I'd also like to know how to develop my ab's also, it seems that no matter what I do, their is always that layer of fat their.



I highly doubt you are benching 325 pounds. And only doing 3 sets of 30 pushups. And dont have a serious lifting lifestyle. Most men never get past 225 for reps. You want help then dont lie.

And before you make any comments about benching I have a comp benchpress of 445 poundsX2

Abs are made in the kitchen and on the treadmill.  Eat right and run your ass off thats the way to get abs.


----------



## spenco

Aaron White said:
			
		

> I highly doubt you are benching 325 pounds. And only doing 3 sets of 30 pushups. And dont have a serious lifting lifestyle. Most men never get past 225 for reps. You want help then dont lie.



I was thinking the same thing as you but didnt want to say anything...  

This is for the guy who wanted the cardio plan:

Running
Week 1: Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 2 miles per day, 8:30 pace 6 miles/week
Week 2: Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 2 miles per day, 8:30 pace 6 miles/week
Week 3: No running - High risk for injury
Week 4: Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 3 miles per day
Week 5: Monday - 2 mi, Tuesday - 3 mi, Thursday - 4 mi, Friday - 2 mi
Week 6: Monday - 2 mi, Tuesday - 3 mi, Thursday - 4 mi, Friday - 2 mi
Week 7: Monday - 4 mi, Tuesday - 4 mi, Thursday - 5 mi, Friday - 3 mi
Week 8: Monday - 4 mi, Tuesday - 4 mi, Thursday - 5 mi, Friday - 3 mi
Week 9: Monday - 4 mi, Tuesday - 4 mi, Thursday - 5 mi, Friday - 3 mi


I do the pushups and situps right after my runs, I find it works best then.


----------



## reality_therapy

I've started using the Navy SEALS program as well. Hoping it wil bring my VO2 up quite a bit before I resit my PT. The strength part I had no problem w/ it was the VO2 that screwed me. Plus I hate running...no actually its the getting out and running that I hate! ha ha Once I'm out there and actually running I love it. 

Just wanted to say I appreciated these posts. Now I know I'm following the right program.

Cheers!


----------



## reality_therapy

One question though. On the Navy SEAL program it says "2 miles 8:30 pace"...what is the 8:30 pace?  2 miles in 8 minutes 30 secs?


----------



## NavyGrunt

No bro thats 8:30mins for each mile. So a 17 minute run(itsa pretty slow for the first 2 weeks). Once you get to the second set of 10 weeks you are supposed to chip away at it until you are running about a 6:30minute mile for 6 miles....or better....Im not there yet...


----------



## CivU

The cardio program is good for overall endurance but lacking interval training.  I find in training for cardio it is necessary to implement high intensity/short distance exercises that rapidly increase heart rate.  This sort of intensity is only found in interval training, and will dramatically improve your VO2 max (as measured by the 20MSR) as well as your general capacity for longer distances.

For example: 3 times full out at 400m, done 4 times...followed by 3 times at 150m, done 4 times...You can vary the distances, no more than 500m is what I tend to follow...

Also, training for push ups, pulls ups and sit ups may help PT scores, but if your not using a weight training program your really not gaining anything siginificant other than a higher capacity in a few specific exercises...


----------



## reality_therapy

For example: 3 times full out at 400m, done 4 times...followed by 3 times at 150m, done 4 times...You can vary the distances, no more than 500m is what I tend to follow...

CivU - I was reading about the intensity vs volume and how both are valuable. Now with what you said above - can you explain it a bit more. For example, if I'm running around the track are you suggesting doing spurts of 400m at full belt 4 x during the run? or how are you seeing it?

Sorry if I'm coming off a bit slow here.


----------



## CivU

Sorry...that may have been unclear...

I mean...warm up jog as adequate

then...

Run full pace 400m (one lap of standard track) then walk a half lap...Repeat this two more times with the same half lap break, and then take a lap and a half of walking break...then begin again...do this 3 times in total (9 times of 400m)

Adjust accordingly depending on distance, less break for less distance...

The most imporant thing is to go as hard as possible...you will get slower over each set, but need to maintain cardio intensity...


----------



## NavyGrunt

CivU said:
			
		

> Sorry...that may have been unclear...
> 
> I mean...warm up jog as adequate
> 
> then...
> 
> Run full pace 400m (one lap of standard track) then walk a half lap...Repeat this two more times with the same half lap break, and then take a lap and a half of walking break...then begin again...do this 3 times in total (9 times of 400m)
> 
> Adjust accordingly depending on distance, less break for less distance...
> 
> The most imporant thing is to go as hard as possible...you will get slower over each set, but need to maintain cardio intensity...




Your point is true but Id argue that the ability to conduct yourself at a high level for a prolonged period is more important......and your sprinting periods will follow...Ive got my 10km run down to 37mins.....now I do that twice a week and started concentrating on sprinting...but my sprtining has improved from my distance running as well....


----------



## EasyCo

From a VO2 study site:
"Numerous studies show that you can increase your VO2 max by working out at an intensity that raises your heart rate to between 65 and 85 per cent of its maximum for at least 20 minutes three to five times a week."

Most gyms have charts up on the wall with numbers to determine where your heart rate is as per your age.


----------



## Bograt

Civi U,

I am a former squash hack, turned weight dummy. I thought that my squash prepared me for running. It did not. I hate running. I still hate it, but you got to do it. When I began my fitness program back in June running I knew I needed to increase my cardio capacity. I ran 5 times a week.

Three days for 15 minutes as a warm up for weights.
Two days a week was just running. The trainer knew I hated to run. He suggested that I focus on running for time, and not for distance. Run as fast as you can for as long as you can- i.e. run as fast as you can over a period of 10 minutes, the 12, then 15, etc... This idea ensures that you keep your heart rate up.

Just to avoid confusion, I do not mean sprint for x number of minutes, but maintain the fastest pace you can over that extended period of time.

Cheers,


----------



## zerhash

ive always found that a good workup training does a lot to develop your running

basicly start a bit lower than what you can do and every other day run. Increase it weekly so that week 1 you are doing a bit less, say 2km, then the next week boost it to 3. 2 - 3 is a bad example because you are doing 150% your previouse run so after 2 weeks or so go to 3 and slowly increase.

the first few weeks you should just run the straight 2 or 3 but when you get to 5 or so modify it.
monday 4
tuesday 5
wednesday 3
thurs 4
fri 5
sat 6
sun 4

then do the next week at 6 with a similar pattern

good luck!
Spr. Richmond


----------



## Playa69

OK heres a small guide for all you beginners (soldiers mostly but all can still benefit)

Three keys for complete PT: weight training, Cardio(running, swimming,and biking), and diet

For weight training pay attention to the basics:

      BACK
    * Deadlifts
    * Barbell Rows
    * T-Bar Rows
    * Pull-Ups

      LEGS
    * Squats-(king of all exercises)
    * Straight Leg Deadlifts-(can be done with a slight bend)
    * Leg Press

      CHEST
    * Incline Bench Press- Barbell or Dumbbell
    * Flat Bench Press- Barbell or Dumbbell
    * Dips- lean more forward, to hit your chest more - I don't think declines are necessary, because flat bench and dips will hit your lower chest enough

      DELTS
    * Military Press- Barbell or Dumbbell
    * Push Press

      TRICEPS
    * Close Grip Bench- hands should be spaced about 8-12 inches apart
    * Skull Crushers/Lying Tricep Extensions
    * Dips- with your body more upright

      BICEPS
    * Barbell or Dumbbell Curls
    * Incline Curls
    * Preacher Curls

Lift weights no more than 3 days in a week: muscles need time to recover especially if you add cardio (weight training is lesser form of cardio, but can be done in variations to target cardio level). Keep your reps to 9-12, and sets 4-6. Keep your reps and sets relatively low to gain some good size and strength, we are all looking to get bigger and stronger muscles. Increase/decrease weight/reps/sets for shock training when body adapts to same excessive (for me i have to change exercises around approx. every 3 weeks). Make sure you stretch before, between, and after each exercise. Also make habit of stretching during your rest days. Stretch to tightness, not to pain; hold for 10-15 seconds. DO NOT BOUNCE. Stretch every muscle in your body from the neck to the calves, concentrating on your thighs, hamstrings, chest, back, and shoulders. Add in ab workout if you really want it, you will be working out your abs with those exercises mentioned above.

You should be spending more time pumpingg that heart, then pumpin Molson Canadian Light down that hatchway :dontpanic: !

I personally do 50 kms a week running, but most newcomers to exercise cant do that. Id say about 10 kms while starting out and increase distance and speed every week. 3 times a week running seems optimal for the beginner. You should also run in boots to prepare your legs (Boots should be of a light-weight variety). Set a goal a work up to it. You'll be amazed as what your body can do.

Try to fit in swimming, and biking if you can! But don't overdo it, cause you might end up overtraining -- thats not good. 

Proper nutrition is extremely important: you must make sure you receive the necessary nutrients to obtain maximum performance output during exercise and to promote muscle/tissue growth and repair. The best source of complex carbohydrates are potatoes, pasta, rice, fruits, vegetables. These types of foods are your best sources of energy. Carbohydrates, protein, and fat are the three energy nutrients. All three can provide energy, but carbohydrate is the preferred source of energy for physical activity. The majority of carbohydrates should come from complex carbohydrate foods that include bread, crackers, cereal, beans, peas, starchy vegetables, and other whole grain or enriched grain products. Fruits are also loaded with carbohydrates. During training, more than four servings of these food groups should be consumed daily.

Water intake is vital; stay hydrated. You should be consuming up to four quarts of water daily. Drink water before you get thirsty! ! !

NUTRIENT INTAKE
Carbohydrates 50-70% of calories
Protein 10-15% of calories
Fats 20-30% of calories 

Most of all, have fun.


----------



## carpediem

This promotional site for the American Military has some good articles:

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Smith_Index,00.html


----------



## reality_therapy

In regards to the VO2 discussion...the neighbourhood where I run has lots of hills. I start my run on the flat and then dip down hill for short distance and then it's a long haul up hill. After that it starts going down slightly and then a steep climb back to the flat section for the final leg home. 

So does running hills have any positive affect on the VO2 like intensity training. You have to excert more effort to get up the hill and I can still manage the 2 mile run in 17 minutes or the 2.4km run in under 12 minutes. Any thoughts on running hills then?


----------



## Big Foot

A little suggestion for you, circuit training. That way, you're not just working cardio, you're doing muscular at the same time. its how I got prepped for my RMC PT Test (which is way harder than the CF Express test I might add). Another thing you might wanna try is hill sprints or long distance runs on hills.


----------



## Clipse

I'm preparing for the army, and I can currently do about 5 miles at about 6.0mph...my 1.5 mile run is at about 11:25 but I would like to improve that to just about 10 mins or so. I been training for a while now and been successful in losing alot of weight, but I would like to get more serious and focused on running+endurance now rather then size and strength. Here is what I have in mind to switch to:

mon/wed/fri-fullbody:2sets/light weight fail reps/1.5mile run under 12 mins (at night couple hours after weights)

tues/thurs/sat/sun- distance running/pushups/situps/pullups-dips

OR should I keep my current routine and just add the 1.5 runs and pushups to it:

mon-chest/tris 3x12 (1.5miles)
tues-distance run + (pushups,situps,pullups)
wed-back/bis 3x12 (1.5miles)
thurs-distance run + (pushups,situps,pullups)
fri-shoulders/legs 3x12 (1.5miles)
sat-distance run + (pushups,situps,pullups)
sun-distance run

Thanks in advance, I would do that navy seal workout, but they dont use any weights at all, and only do body weight training 3x a week, but thats just a sample plan too.


----------



## Playa69

*Online Calories Burned Calculator*

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/tl/misc/caloriesburned.jsp

or you can try this one if above link doesn't work

http://www.wvda.org/calcs/gym.html


----------



## Clipse

Hey I got a question, I can currently run about 5 miles so I have no real problems with distance running, but I'm starting to prepare for the PT and I'm worried that I wont pass it. Currently my time is 11:25 for 1.5miles, I was wondering if I were to practice more of the 1.5miles and ease off the distance, would my distance capabilities start to fade or would they still be there? And when you do the PT, do you do the pushups, situps first before your run, or after? And is the run on a treadmill or do they take you out on a track, I'm curious because what if it snows, do you do it indoor then or how does it all work. Thanks  ;D


----------



## Playa69

Your fine don't worry about not passing! Just add some speed drills to your running schedule. 

If you want to do a hard calisthenics training, keep it to a separate day. Otherwise, id suggest after running or preferably another time during the day! Again, this is from my personal experience.


----------



## Playa69

[





			
				zerhash said:
			
		

> hrmm interesting calorie calculator. I have no idea what these numbers mean?
> 
> what does it help you do? come up with a diet or what?



Its by no means exact numbers, but its a close estimate. It only benefits those that are calorie conscious. First of all you have to keep a log of what you eat(how many total calories you digest) and exercise (burn calories).

Its easy for us to say "Eat more to gain muscle" and "Eat less to lose fat." That still leaves you with a big question: more or less than what? You need a basline number to start with. 

Step 1: Your weight in pounds ___ x 11 = ___ Your basic calorie needs

This calculation tells you the amount of energy you'd burn without eating or exercising. In other words -- the caloric cost of being you.

Step 2 : Your basic calorie needs (step 1) ___ x Caloric cost of your activity level ___% (From following chart) = ___Your metabolic rate

Activity Level                                           Age
                                               <30        30-40        >40
Mostly sedentary                       30%       25%          20%
Moderately active                        40%       35%          30%
Dedicated exerciser or athlete       50%       45%          40%

Since you do eat and exercise, the total number of calories your body burns in a day is higher than your basic calorie needs. How much higher depends on your age, the amount of muscle you have, and the intensity at which you make that muscle work.

Step 3 : Your Basic Calorie needs(step 1) ___ + Your Metabolic Rate(step 2) ___ = Your maintenance total

This sum reveals how many calories you need just to maintain your current body composition, without growing muscle or shedding fat.

Step 4: Your maintenance total(step 3) ___ + 500 = ____ to gain muscle

To build muscle, increase your daily calorie intake by 500 calories.

Step 5: Your maintenance total(step 3) ___ - 500 = ____ to lose fat

To lose weight , subtract 500 calories a day.

The amount of energy in a pound of fat equals 3,500 calories, so in a perfect world, creating a daily surplus of deficit of 500 calories would allow weight gain or weight loss of 1 pound a week. Muscle gain is less predictable than fat loss, because adding calores and moving a heavier body both speed up your metabolism.

I'm almost certain people are going to ask me how to sum up this equation, so I'm going to run an example. Say you weight 165 pounds, you're under 30, and you're extremely active, lifting 3 days a week and playing sports or doing some other type of intense exercise on other days. You want to gain some solid muscle mass.

Step 1: 165 x 11 = 1,815
Step 2: 1,815 x 0.5 = 907.5
Step 3: 1,815 + 907.5 = 2,722.5
Step 4: 2,722 + 500 = 3,222.5

In other words, you need to eat more than 3,200 calories a day to gain muscle mass.

Now, with the online calorie calculator it will further help you plan out your diet and training program.

Hope this helps.

edit: Sorry about the chart. I don't know how to use the table function. Anyone that does, please pm me. thanks :bullet:


----------



## Playa69

zerhash said:
			
		

> so does this mean to make this work i gotta look at all the fine print of the health info whenever i eat?...



Yes.   It's not that hard when you get the hang of it. Sooner or later you will not even have to look at the labels!

Here is a site that counts Food Calories & Nutrition http://www.caloriesperhour.com/

It also has Diet and Weight Loss Information & Tips; Calories Burned, BMI, BMR & RMR Calculator.

I'd recommend to look at the site, their calculators are pretty good.

Also, you have this one for Calorie Charts and Tables http://www.annecollins.com/calories/


----------



## NavyGrunt

Yall are being absolutely silly worrying about these things- unless you're cutting for a competition.  Eat right, sleep and lift(and run). Eating right is easy- we did it without "calorie" calculators for thousands of years. Its common damn cents. Avoid sugary foods. Eat 6-8 smaller meals. Why are we so fat and we are overexposed to nutrition and health info? Because we over complicate a very simple issue.

Heres a good tip- if the food you are eating comes in a package covered in writing its probably no good for you. The brighter the package- the less good it is for you. Low fat? High carbs. No fat? HIGH carbs. Even if you dont eat "no carb" you should be aiming to control your carb intake- refined sugars will rob you of any progress. Eat when you are hungry and exercise- your body will naturaly adapt. 

If you are "dieting" you are setting yourself up for heartbreak. Its a lifestyle change not something you do for "swimsuit" season. And as soldiers, airmen, and sailors(now or aspiring) you should be fueling and training your body correctly. Dieting makes you moody and less aware. Not to mention weaker. Not the state you want to be in.

Train and eat right. The "bod" falls in place.


----------



## Playa69

I'm always in competitions and my father is a physical trainer -- hes been putting this in my head ever since i was a little kid. 

Before i go on with my post---so we get no misunderstandings--- i would like to say, the term "Dieting" should not be referred to 'eating less"--lose weight . Proper term for diet: What we eat to fuel our bodies. 

Yes it is true that "we did it without "calorie" calculators for thousands of years", but then again food was scare in those times. Now, people worldwide have the luxury of bombarding themselves with nutrient-deficient, high-calorie food, often called empty-calorie or junk food. So it is the combination of food choices, inactivity, and genetics that determines if you have fat around your body. There are no magic pills or effortless gimmick for use to lose weight. We have to use common sense of course, but when companies that specifically market junk food,  "eat this, eat this, drink this, drink this, it's yummy - you'll love it", its pretty damn hard to NOT eat it. 

Eating right (5-6 small healthy meals) is easy to say. But for some its "eating more or less what?" Many people in our society do not have that vast amount of knowledge to know what to eat, and eat right when all we see on television is junk food. Twenty-five years ago, the government tried to get junk food advertising off of children's television, but they were stopped by the toy industry, the food industry, the broadcasting industry and the advertising industry. It's time to take another crack at that.

Now with the use of these calculators it helps the person setting a goal, and achieving it by monitoring themselves. Yes we can achieve our goals(losing overall fat, gaining muscle mass...etc) without calculators using common sense, but the use of them will help you closely knit our plans *effectively* (without signifcant fat accumulation or muscle loss). Why do you think body builders of today are much bigger, leaner, and much more defined than what they used to be 10-20 years ago? Then again were not bodybuilders :-X, were soldiers! But that doesn't mean we cannot benefit from modern knowledge!

For example(we have to explain to people when, what, and how to eat):

If you're a lean, very active guy trying to pack on muscle, you should hedge your bets with more than a gram of protein per pound, since extra dietary protein increases protein synthesis in the body. At the same time, you need plenty of easily available fuel in the form of carbohydrate.(The more intense the activity, the more carbohydrate your body uses for energy.) Without a lot of carbs, you run the risk that your body will dip into your protein reserves for the energy it needs. Those protein reserves are in your muscles---the last place from which you want to donate energy. Finally, you need enough fat to help prodcue testerone and other anabolic hormone. And the fat can be used for energy, too, especially any low-intensity activities---shooting hoops, playing golf, riding a bike.

When trying to shed fat, you have a slightly different set of concerns. You need protein to maintain your muscle even though you can't expect to gain muscle mass while trying to lose 2 pounds a week. You want those pounds to come entirely from your fat stores, so you shouldn't eat a lot of carbohydrate. Eating carbs signals your body to burn carbs. Eat fat, though, and your body will be more willing to use fat for energy. However, you shouldn't completely forgo carbohydrate. You need some for energy during exercise; you need fruits, vegetables, and whole grains for health reasons; and you don't want to feel deprived of the foods that comprise the vast majority of the available calories in the food chain. You're already cutting out a large chunk of your daily calories---don't pile on needless suffering by eating like a freak.

Now, does all this mean you have to follow a formal diet, counting every calorie? I think the answer is yes. If you're trying---and failing--to grow muscle or lose fat, you probably do need to follow a carefully calculated diet, at least for a while. Start by determining your actual food intake: Keep a 3-day food diary, making a list of everything you eat during that 72-hour period. Use a good calorie-counting Web site, such as those that Ive posted earlier or even  www.usda.gov, to figure out your average daily calorie intake. Then you'll be able cut or add calories as necessary to reach the total you calculated in the equations that Ive posted earlier.

OR, a simpler strategy is to examine your diet for less healthful foods and replace those with better ones. Thats what Aaron White was trying to say.

The benefits of eating the right foods diminish if you don't get the frequency and timing right. These two factors can be summed up pretty easily: Eat five or six small meals throughout the day, whether your goal is pure muscle growth (without significant fat accumulation) or pure fat depletion (without significant muscle loss). Think of our body as a fireplace. Would you expect a fireplace to burn consistently throughtout the day, keeping your living room at a steady temperature, if you threw logs into it two or three times a day and left it alone the rest of the time? Hell, no. If you wanted the room to remain at a consistent, comfortable temperature, you'd replenish the tinder every couple of hours. And you'd never throw a huge stack of wood on the fire at any one time--the room would get hot hot.

Now you know why it seems that lean, muscular people are always eating. When you're trying to build muscle, frequent small feedings allow you to get enough calories throughout the day without ever wolfing down 1,000-calorie meals. When you're trying to lose fat while sparing muscle, five or six small meals and snacks at regular intervals let you eat less overall without feeling ravenous and deprived. 

Here's the best, simplest way to schedule your meals:

Eat your first meal as soon as you can after gettin up in the morning---you want your fire to start burning as quickly as possible.

Try to eat every 3 hours after that.

Have a pre-workout snack or drink about an hour prior to exercise and a post-workout snack or drink within 1 hour of completing your exercise. ( 2-to-1 carbohydrate-protein ration, with just enough fat to provide some flavor and texture). My favorite: The basic (187 calories) 1 teaspoon protein powder in the flavor of your choice, 1 cup 1% milk, and one banana --- blend...serve and drink before and after---yummy. 

I guess i made my point pretty damn clear. Its up to you if you want to follow a closely knit plan, or just use common sense eliminating the not so good foods you can live without. Both will work, but with more attention to your diet, you will achieve greater results in less time.

Its up to *you*.

_DONT FORGET TO EXERCISE_.

and have FUN.


----------



## NavyGrunt

zerhash said:
			
		

> ?
> so what are you are saying about IMPs?



Dont eat them when your arent in the field.  They are designed that way for a reason. Lots of energy. Quick. They arent designed to be eaten all day long by normal everyday people.

Ghostraven what I am saying is before these people who have never eaten properly or exercised before(no matter what they are telling us on the internet-if they did they wouldnt have these types of questions) by using "equations" they are doing too much to soon. The first thing they need to do is to cut out all the crap and exercise, too much to soon and they see it as too complicated- what you saidd in your post was true. But its TOO LARGE of an adjustment at once. They'll never keep it up....


----------



## cihmitb

Hey all, I want to get in good shape before I go to apply or do my physical, so I was just wondering if this is a good work out and if anyone could give me any other exercises to do that they do in basic trainging that I should know about. any info is greatly appreciated thanks.
(I hope all the names of the exercises are right)

3 sets of

1.push ups-30
2.sit ups- 30
3.running- 2 k
4.bench press- 15
5.dumb bell curls- 20
6.biking- 3 k
7.chin ups- 5
8.leg lifts â â€œ 20
9.butterfly curls- 15
10. bicep curls- 15
11. skipping- 3 mins
 12 .boxing (60 lbs bag) 5 mins


----------



## Jungle

Is this a daily schedule ? ...weekly... monthly... ??   
In any case, you need to run longer distances. 2km is not enough...


----------



## cihmitb

I try and do it dailly but I might miss a day here and there, and I run 3 sets o 2 k but if thats still not long enough then I can put it up to 3 or 4 k I guess, I'm trying to combine cardio with weight lifting.


----------



## Jungle

For the cardio, you should probably run once a day. You should aim for 30 min runs as a minimum, resulting in 5 to 6 kms. Once a week, run for 60 min; this way, you'll improve endurance.


----------



## Zhuge Liang

it seems obvious in retrospect, looking at the army site for workout help cause you want to join the army.   So many good ideas (and some not so good ones, but its the thought that counts).

I joined the Family Fitness gym if you know the chain (not the exclusively women's gym obviously, although it sounds like the premise for a zany adventure).

I'm not terribly concerned about the physical entry requirements, its basic and on i'm worried about.   I used to be a big sports nut but let it slide for the last 5 or 6 years and started smoking to boot.   I'm on my way to quitting now.

I've read that the physical entrance requirements don't properly prepare you for the demands of basic.   If so, then which ones are inadequate and to what degree?

If i had to guess off the top of my head i'd probably say the running (in boots) and the pushups.

As a final note would you say regular jogging is better than the eliptical?   My parents have a pool, but my timing sucks and its closed during the summer.

I want to learn things properly the first time.

Also i saw alot of workout routines, maybe people could post some sample diets as well?

thanks again for the help


----------



## Bert

As mentioned before, if you need a good fitness program suited for you then its best to
get professional training advice.   You can't go wrong.

A good way to assess yourself is to take the "Self-Test" available on the CF Recruiting site
or in the application package and judge where your strengths and weakness are.     Can you 
perform the number of push-ups, the number of sit-ups, and run the required distance in the 
time allotted?   Are you able to achieve more?   If so, then the physical demands of BMQ will 
not be a problem.   If not, you may want to talk to a fitness trainer.

BMQ, and life in the military, may challenge you physically.   One may have to climb obstacles,
march distances carrying a load at a fast pace, jog distances, carry relative heavy loads,
crawl in confined spaces, work with little sleep, and maintain a sense of humor in times of
stress.   To be physically able, its best to develop all-around body strength, maintain
muscle flexibility, and develop good cardio/endurnace from jogging and running.   Just
training for sit-ups or push-ups isn't the point of military or combat fitness.

Having wrote that, those that have attended BMQ may agree mental and emotional
fitness are just as important.   You become part of a platoon and BMQ focuses on
teamwork, perseverence, sense of pride, endurance, and teamwork.   If you meet or 
exceed the CF fitness specifications, you'll won't falter in BMQ.   If you maintain a
positive attitude, maintain a sense of humor, help your buddies, let them help
you when you need it, and remember you and your platoon are all there together facing
the same challenges and strive to overcome them, then you'll succeed.

Eat a well-balanced diet with lots of protien ources.  I'd recommend not running in boots.   
Many people get carried away with pre-BMQ raining then go an injure themselves unnecessarily 
and that sucks.   Run with a good pair of running shoes and don't do anything silly. 

Good luck.


----------



## Gilligan

I'm in the comm reserve, and although it's not a combat arms trade....since the linemen are, we often get placed in PT with them (at least that's been the case with my 3's course on a regular basis).  We started off with small distances, doing about 5km everyday for week 1, then that friday we did circuit training, week 2 was 7km, circuit training friday, and then week 3 was 9km, same circuit training (although intensifying week by week) by week 4 we were running 12km in just over an hour.  By the end of the summer (8 weeks), we were doing 12km (add in all the frickin turnbacks to pickup those who couldn't keep up) in about 45 minutes.  Also, at the start of the summer, I weighed 155lbs, and size 30, by the end of the summer I had only "lost" 5lbs, but was down to a size 26.  Of course, I did lose a lot of weight, and gained it back with muscle mass, but toned muscle mass.  
   I found that workout plan to work, and when I got pregnant I could do very little, but once I had my baby, I waited a few months, and went back to the routine that my instructors started me on on my 3s, and it's been great.  Food in moderation, breakfast/lunch/dinner, fruit or veggie snacks during the day on breaks, and no junk food.  
   Anyway, I didn't find I had to use any fancy machines because I didn't have to go to a gym (although should be wanting more of a weight training regime, then a gym would be a good start), and although at first it seems a little daunting, I just remembered that it isn't always about losing weight (at least that's what I was told).  If your clothes are getting baggier, and your skin is tighter to your muscle, then you're good to go.  Besides, if you plan on joining the military, any extra muscle will help.


----------



## bhobson

I have used protein powders, but it not really necessary. All that they do is replace any protein sources like meats or legumes. if you get organized and cook a bunch of food ahead of time those 5-6 small meals per day diets aren't as daunting as they appear. Powders just make it easier, but certainly not necessary.


----------



## Mischiefz

from the little I know about protein supplements is that they are designed in no way to *replace* meals..meat sources etc. Protein is used by the body to produce amino acids ( found in meat and some vegatables ie: beans)  that not only fuel muscles but also help repair ( muscles are built by first tearing, microscopic tears..., then repairing the muscle). As far as I know the worst thing is you leak out the extra protein ( correct me if Im wrong ) but having to little equals muscles looking for alternative fuel sources, ie other muscle cells, muscle itself etc.


----------



## foerestedwarrior

Check this out, lots of knowlegable people at PSP

http://www.psphalifax.ns.ca/fleetfitness/default.asp


----------



## putz

maybe its just the people at your GNC the ones here in Edmonton are great.  I only use triflex(glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM) for running and they helped me out.


----------



## Spr.Earl

Hey plain and simple !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

You wish to join you already know the Military expects a said standard.
You have been given the criteria.

Work on it!

STOP ASKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just get your Arse in gear and do it if you want it that bad.

Plain and simple.


----------



## Jungle

One more thing, if you need all that crap you guys are talking about to meet the CF EXPRES standard, you have a serious problem...


----------



## Island Ryhno

There have been some crazy statements on this thread, about 10 pages back someone was claiming a 4 min 20 sec mile..wtf, the fastest 10k runners in the world don't do that, I'm sorry but there is some bad stuff on this thread. Workout every day? Your muscles grow during recovery phase, that means days off. If you work out 7 days a week you'll just end up hurting yourself. You want to get abs, you can do crunches until your head comes off, it doesn't mean jack, you can't iso define a muscle. 6 pack of abs = no 6 packs of beer or nachos or hamburgers or wings or any other tasty treats, you show them through diet. Anyways I thought that people should take this topic with a grain of salt as someone who is trying to join will probably try to do one of the superman workouts mentioned and hurt themselves causing a set back. Here is some good advice, join a YM_YWCA and get sessions with a CERTIFIED fitness instructor who will set up a routine SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU, as we are all different. It's free of charge with the membership. Just my rant..out


----------



## Manny

Lose weight - I love to drink pop. So what? When I had to trim down, I stopped having my two to three cokes a day and within weeks there was a noticeable difference. That alone won't do it. The PT programme is just as important. Once you do the calorie check (how much you consume and how much you use on a daily basis) you should be able to identify where you can cut the calories without affecting your culinary lifestyle. Dido for donuts and pizza. Identify the high calorie foods and reduce consumption. Having said that, don't deprive yourself completely, or you will rebound. Treat yourself to your favourite food once a week, in moderation of course.

Running - I recommend a popular running magazine. They normally have routines to improve your running times.


----------



## Shortman

Hi, been a lurker here for a few months and i know this is the Canadian Army but i am joining the British Army and i am leaving in August for basic training.  I was wondering if any one here would be able to help me with my fitness.  

I started getting fit in december where i would try 1.5 mile runs and i couldnt do them.  I was really unfit .  Any way i got injured due to over training in january and wasnt able to get back to running until late february.  I have gotten pretty strong from doing weights at the gym 3 times a week so i dont need to work on my muscle.  When i went for my fitness test at recruit selection centre i done the 1.5 mile in 10.13 this was the 11th april.  Now i can do it in 9.53.  The thing that worries me is long distance running and working out a good routine.  I am afraid to run more than 3 times a week incase i get injured becuase my legs muscles aren't very strong.  I would run one day then have a rest day and so on.  But some days i feel like if i go running today im goin to hurt myself so i just dont go and leave it for another day.  

I have made out a new routine and was wondering if any one would be kind enough to give me some advice to help increase my fitness.  I can currently run 2 miles at a steady pace in about 15-16min.  But if i push hard i can get it in 14 min.  My breathing isnt really the problem when it comes to doing this its my legs get really fatigued and some days i am forced to slow down to a slow run then after 20-30 secs i can pick up the pace again and i am fine for the rest of the run.

Is slowing down bad in any way?

Any way this is the routine i had in mind

Monday: 2 mile run

Tuesday: chest/biceps at gym

Wednesday: 1.5 mile high intensity.

Thursday: shoulders/back

Friday: 2 mile run

Saturday: Triceps/legs/(abs thrown in)

Sunday: Rest day or 3 mile jog.

As far as i know im going in August so i have a good 4 months to prepare.

Any help would be great thanks!


----------



## Hedgehog18

Hey i find that if you are jsut starting off doing this program is great o get you started and its not that tough at the begging quiet easy like you can skip the first couple of weeks if you want 

http://running.about.com/od/gettingstarted/ss/startrunning.htm


----------



## 45506445210414924

i ve been reading this section of the froum and kept my mouth shut for too long! best way to get in shape is to do (which i think, many of you may disagree) interval training on a 4 day sched. then up it the next week.... and so forth, i think weight training is good and all, but remember folks, you can lift and lift all you want but, if your goin out to mcdonalds and ordering there double big mac w/ cheese your pissing your oppourtunity for gains away! by that said...proper nutrition (geez i sound like my grama when i was  kid) is the way to go for Personal Fitness, 

i just want to know are you allowed bringing darn multivitamins  
meh ill contact them tomorrow

cheers

goodluck!


----------



## atticus

Okay, I am a little bit confused from all the different things I've been reading about heart rate and jogging on the net. I've read that for me my BPM should be 130 on some sites to 160. Would somebody please explain to me what my BPM should be? I'm 20, 6 "2, 175 lb, and when I run with a heart rate monitor on it floats usually around 165, is this too high?


----------



## NavComm

atticus said:
			
		

> Okay, I am a little bit confused from all the different things I've been reading about heart rate and jogging on the net. I've read that for me my BPM should be 130 on some sites to 160. Would somebody please explain to me what my BPM should be? I'm 20, 6 "2, 175 lb, and when I run with a heart rate monitor on it floats usually around 165, is this too high?



You can get all the information you need from http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf it explains everything you need to know aboutthe PT test and to prepare for BMQ.

On page 11 it explains heart rate and what to aim for as this:

65% - 90% of your maximum heatrate (220 - age x (intensity %) so at 20 to calculate your 65%-90% intensity 

220 - 20x 65% = 130 beats per minute as a low
220 - 20 x 90% = 180 beats per minute max.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Island Ryhno

Eat bananas, it'll help with your muscle soreness. As for the stretch, um stick your hand up like you're asking a question, now take that hand and bend it at the elbow so that your forearm is behind your head. Now with your other hand hold the elbow for about 10 seconds, switch and repeat. These are static stretches, so don't "bounce" your muscles.


----------



## mover1

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> Eat bananas, it'll help with your muscle soreness. As for the stretch, um stick your hand up like you're asking a question, now take that hand and bend it at the elbow so that your forearm is behind your head. Now with your other hand hold the elbow for about 10 seconds, switch and repeat. These are static stretches, so don't "bounce" your muscles.



Clench your fist bend your arm at the elbow stretch your index finger insert it in your nose wiggle and clear your airways. 

Actually the bananas thing does work and its sound advice. And (At least it works for me) is pump off a few push ups before you do the run. The aerobic exercises will get th blood flowing and your stiffness should be subdued a bit.


----------



## NavComm

Mike F said:
			
		

> just did a pre-test type thing, cranked out quite a bit of pushups feeling loosened up now.....also feeling a bit confident going in! ha, anyways guys gotta head to the armouries, take it eas'



I don't know if that's considered strenuous excercise but they do tell you not to excercise prior to the test, you may disqualify yourself and have to come back another day. http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/engraph/howtojoin/fitness_eval_e.aspx


----------



## Island Ryhno

Muscle are grown during the rest period. If you are constantly tearing down your muscles they can't grow. The only way you could work out hard every day is a one a day split. I.E. Mon - legs, Tues-arms, etc etc, one body part per day. Really anything less than 48 hours of recovery time is damaging to your muscles. I find also that 7 days a week is completely draining mentally and erodes motivation, but that's just my spin. Try some of theses sites for info on muscle recovery.
http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/weight.htm 
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/training-fitness/build-muscle-lose-fat.htm
http://umanitoba.fitdv.com/new/articles/article.html?artid=21


----------



## atticus

So, I noticed that after I run, my legs aren't sore the next day at all now. Even if I run in the morning that evening it feels as if I didn't run at all. Is this okay, or should I be taking this as a note to work harder?


----------



## MysticLies

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I just wanted to add that running on a threadmill isn't exactly the same as running on a track. In my case I have been running for like 30 minutes each day on the threadmill, for like 2 weeks now. two days ago I decided to run on the outside track instead, and boy did I feel a difference, maybe I ran faster, but for some reason I got tired pretty early compared to when I was on the threadmil.

my adivce is to run some days on the threadmills and others on a track or something like that.


----------



## Island Ryhno

Atticus, I'm not sure if your comment was tongue in cheek or not. However the articles and most conventional fitness wisdom state that you should allow around 48 hours of recovery time, muscles sore or not. My muscles don't get sore anymore but I don't train them constantly just because they're not sore. I've learned that over time, some people don't and figure they should run 7 days a week or lift weights 7 days a week because they think that more and more and more is better, I don't think it's that way at all, but I'm just a lowly nobody. MysticLies, as for the treadmill theory, I've found the same thing, most articles and running experts suggest setting the incline to 3 or so on the treadmill to mimic running outside as you would never run on a perfectly flat surface outdoors! Again, just a lowly nobody's opinion.  8)


----------



## MysticLies

after reading many different sources, taking time off between sessions does seem like the smart thing. This may be off topic: I haven't been to BMQ yet, but I recall someone saying that we basically workout everyday, if that is true doesn't that contradict the whole take time off from session to session? Or is BMQ not like that at all.


----------



## Hedgehog18

MysticLies said:
			
		

> after reading many different sources, taking time off between sessions does seem like the smart thing. This may be off topic: I haven't been to BMQ yet, but I recall someone saying that we basically workout everyday, if that is true doesn't that contradict the whole take time off from session to session? Or is BMQ not like that at all.



because your not trying to get use to bmq your trying to get your musscles and lungs ect stronger so over working them well just take longer .. IMOP


----------



## atticus

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> Atticus, I'm not sure if your comment was tongue in cheek or not. However the articles and most conventional fitness wisdom state that you should allow around 48 hours of recovery time, muscles sore or not. My muscles don't get sore anymore but I don't train them constantly just because they're not sore.



So does it just mean I'm in better shape and my body has gotten used to the work out? (I don't go for a jog more than once a day, about five times a week time willing).


----------



## Sivad

atticus said:
			
		

> So does it just mean I'm in better shape and my body has gotten used to the work out? (I don't go for a jog more than once a day, about five times a week time willing).



you probably are in better shape but more importantly are you doing the same routine evertime you workout?  if yes than this is why your muscles won't grow as much and will not be sore.  What happends when you do the same routine over and over is that your muscles will cheat eventually and find and easier way to lift the weight.  Your muscles are lazy and you need to change your routine ever 3-6weeks to keep strength and grow gowing.  Change is good.  I change my workout routine every 6 weeks and I have been working out for years and I still get sore.  and always give your muscles & body time to rest you only grow when at rest!  48 hour turnaroun time between workouts is KEY! and minimal!


----------



## MysticLies

hey this may be out of place, but I have been running  on both the track and the threadmill for sometime. I was just wondering what speed on the threadmill is appropriate? I currently run from anywhere from 6-7 miles/hour, with an incline of 3%, and near the end I sprint for on a speed from 8-9. Is that a good speed, or should I increase of decrease? thankyou in advance.


----------



## atticus

MysticLies said:
			
		

> hey this may be out of place, but I have been running  on both the track and the threadmill for sometime. I was just wondering what speed on the threadmill is appropriate? I currently run from anywhere from 6-7 miles/hour, with an incline of 3%, and near the end I sprint for on a speed from 8-9. Is that a good speed, or should I increase of decrease? thankyou in advance.



If you can do the 2.4 km (or 1.5 miles) in about 11:30 seconds the speed is probably good.


----------



## Hedgehog18

Hey i got a question .. Ive been just doing Push ups Sit ups and running to get ready for BMQ and i still got atleast 8 months togo .. now is doing these basic work outs good or should i been working with weight too .. i read somewhere that push ups work a larger variety of muscles as long as they are done right and after my workouts it feels like every musscle is acheing (hope i didnt miss one lol)

If there is a added exercise i should be doing i would appreciate a tip or too ... 

thanks 
Howard Greffel


----------



## atticus

I've been pretty sick with the flu for about a week or so now and haven't been able to work out for awhile. Is there anything I should be looking out for as a start my way back into my regular schedule? Should I just take it easy kind of easy for the first few weeks?


----------



## Island Ryhno

Best thing to do is work your way back slowly, feeling out what is comfortable for you. I rarely ever get sick, but when I do, when I go back to the gym, I usually set myself back to where I was a week before I got sick. As and example if I was benching 200lbs the week before I got sick then I would try that. If I felt it was too much I'd drop the weight down so I wouldn't wipe myself out.


----------



## MysticLies

another really silly question: is chewing gum while running a bad thing? For me it helps me get through my running, but my friend tells me that it dries the moisture in your mouth


----------



## NavComm

Mystic I don't know about running but I chew gum while bike riding, works for me!


----------



## Rebel_RN

I don't have the name or any info on the program but the health professional in me is screaming" BE CAREFUL" drastic wight loss like that can be extremely dangerous. You should only be removing roughly two to three pounds per week in order to prevent damage to your body.

Also I cringe when I hear someone asking about taking ephedrine, it is extremely dangerous and has been banned for a reason, caffeine/caffeine substitutes consumed when working out for energy are actually a hindrance, If your body requires that much of a boost when you are working out then it is too tired to reap the benefits effectively of said workout.

I hate to beat a dead dog and I'm sure everyone here has heard it but there really isn't a magic pill or drink for weight loss, it comes from proper nutrition, hydration, and physical activity.

Protein supplements and drinks can be good when used properly but you can also attain the same results through diet. Some of these weight boosting products are actually harmful in the long run. Be careful what you take and how often you are taking it and really this stuff should only be consumed after speaking with you doctor because they can get in the way and create some very nasty side effects when combined with certain medications and or illness'. Just my 2 cents

Rebel


----------



## Island Ryhno

Not sure, but it may be crossfit, www.crossfit.com!


----------



## Chimo

Here is the link to the US Army Physical Fitness Manual, it is a good starting point to understand how to set up a PT program and how to increase your fitness level.

http://www.armyrotc.vt.edu/PT/APFTmanual.htm


----------



## 45506445210414924

Hey Steve, since I just picked up a bike and we'll i remember briefly about you explaining a little bit of HIIT, would you mind explaining a little bit on here what it is, not only for my personal benefit  ;D but for others as well. Thanks man.  

Oh and Arnolds Encyclopedia is amazing, if you enjoy reading all 800 and something pages of er' great source of information, but then again so is the internet haha

later


----------



## Island Ryhno

Not to steal Steve's thunder, but HIIT is as simple as it sounds, High Intesity Interval Training. Basically, warm up for 5 mins or so, then go about 80 - 90% of your max for anywhere from 30 - 60 secs and then go at about 60% for about 1-2 mins (depending on how long your High interval was) I know it's not very clear, but really there is no defined program, there are hundreds on the web, just google it. However I caution people about the max % deal, as it will inevitably get less as you get more and more tired. Want a real high intensity workout, do your high interval over time/distance instead of % rate. I.E. try to sprint 300m in 1 min at each interval high. That way you know when you are starting to weaken when it starts taking longer to sprint the 300m. Hope this helps.


----------



## 45506445210414924

Ya I wasn't sure if it was go "max out" for a certain time then walk for about double the time you went "max out" (eg. run/30 secs walk/60) Then increase your "max out" by 5 secs each interval and cut your walking time down by 10 secs, for a total set time of 20-30 mins? confusing haha I'll search the net around for a bit and clarify my self.

Trying it over the distance/time seems like it would be more challenging, good call!


----------



## The_Falcon

Try doing HIIT using the Tabata principle
Step 1)  For *twenty seconds * do as many reps of an exercse (preferably a compound exercise that involves major muscle groups) as intensely you can (you will probably have to use a lighter weight than you think)- then rest *ten seconds*.

Step 2) Repeat step 1, seven more times.

I tried this a day or two ago, doing dumbbell thrusters, i threw up, collapsed and was unable to move for about ten minutes, and I can't wait to do this again next week.  ;D


----------



## WogCpl

Hey, Interval training is great for building cardio but for fat burning not so much. Long and slow for burning fat, like at least 40 mins, of run, bike, x-country ski etc.
HIIT sure has a place, but shouldn't be all you do.
Opinions?


----------



## Island Ryhno

That's been the way of thinking for many years Fatwog, unfortunately, like many of our nutrition and exercises principles over the last 25 years or so, it's slowly being proven wrong. There is evidence that high intensity cardio burns body fat up to 9 times faster than typical 'long slow' low intensity cardio. Not only does it burn more calories and fat during the actual workout, but it forces your body to release hormones that will continue to burn fat several hours after you've finished working out!

Also, high intensity cardio is much less damaging to lean muscle mass than long bouts of aerobic exercise, which can actually burn up significant amounts of muscle tissue over time. (Fit FAQ & source)


----------



## The_Falcon

Thats what I read when I looked into Tabata training.  You only do it for 4 minutes, but the effects (fat burning etc.) continue longer after you sit down.


----------



## sigtech

Here is my question I am currently training 4 times a week in two forms or Martial Arts 3 nights threw the week and 3 hours on Saturdays. I am trying to come up with a program for wights and cardo in the mourning's with out burning my self out. Any suggestions


----------



## sigtech

Fry said:
			
		

> my suggestion is to lift iron and run around.
> 
> Dude, google weight lifting. I'm sure you'll find something decent to go by. Or, you CAN use the search on this site, unless you're afraid it'll bite you.


I have lots of information of just lifting weights , I was looking for someone that had been training in the mixed marital arts that has come up with a balanced plan. I know how to search the site and have found this site to have lots of people that are willing to help and give good advice untill know. Here is my sujestion if you don't have anything usefull to say try saying NADA. This is a sting about physical training is it not? Was my question not about physical training?


----------



## Island Ryhno

I'm into to MMA, this is my weekly routine;
Monday - AM Weights and Cardio = 90 mins
Monday - Pm Judo - 90 mins


Tuesday - Am Weights and Cardio = 90 mins
Tuesday - Pm TKD = 90 mins
Tuesday - Hockey = 60 mins

Wed - Pm Hockey = 60 mins

Thursday - AM Weights and Cardio = 90 mins
Thursday - Pm Judo = 90 mins
Thursday - Pm TKD = 90 mins

Friday - AM Weights and Cardio = 90 mins

Saturday - Hockey 60 mins

Sunday - Hockey 60 mins

Hope this helps


----------



## Island Ryhno

Sigtech, it depends, I vary my workouts every 2-3 weeks, going from strenght to "endurance" lifting. Right now i'm in a strenght phase so I'm doing 5x5 rep max set/reps. So I start with my 5 rep max weight and do that 5 times per set, it should work so that you can't lift 5 times or your fourth or fifth sets. You should look like (for example) 200 x5, 200x5, 200x5, 200x4, 200x3. If you can lift 5x for each set, then that weight is too lite. So my split is like this now,
Mon - Incline DB Bench Press & Incline Bicep Curl
Tues -Narrow Stance Squat & Calf Press in a press machine
Wed - Off
Thu - Pull Ups & Dips
Fri - Deadlift & Standing DB military press.

During "endurance" phases ( I quotate endurance because I don't like to refer to it that way, but I don't know how else to express it.) I lower the weight by about 10-15% and up the reps to 12 and the sets down to 4 so the scheme is 4x12. Also during this phase I like to do full body workouts. My fav routine for this is "hybrids" where you do a mixed bag of things and it's on a 5 day split so MWF I do this;

BBell Hangclean/Front Squat/Mil Press

Romanian Deadlift/Bent over row

Lat Pulldown >SuperSet 1 set of pulldowns, 1 set of chinups
Chinups>Superset

Db Incline Piston Press

Ab Circuit - Hanging Leg Raise, Oblique Swiss Ball Crunch, Plank, Cable Crunch

ON Tues/Thursday

Barbell split squat/overhead Press

Reverse Pushup>Superset 1 set of reverse pushups 1 set of dips
Dip>Superset

DB Lunge/Hammer Curl

Ab Circuit - Hanging Leg Raise, Oblique Swiss Ball Crunch, Plank, Cable Crunch

I have tons of programs if you want some.


----------



## patrick666

Rhyno, I'd be interested to read some of your programs. Please send a PM when you get a chance...

A routine that was suggested to me and that I practice, though quite basic, was to find a high school track and start by sprinting 100m then doing a comfortable set of pushups, run another 100m and a comfortable set of situps, and repeat while gradually increasing your pushup and situp limits. When I say comfortable, I do mean the amount you feel necessary without overdoing it. While jogging is good it sets a limited plateau on your cardio exercise where the sprinting gives it the boost again and again. 

I gues you can interpolate the routine with a weight exercise, if desired. 

Cheers


----------



## atticus

Hey, this weekend I went to get a plantars wart removed. The doctor messed up and now I have a nasty chemical burn on the bottom of my foot and I'm popping T3's for a couple days. Is there any good cardiovascular exercised I could do to help keep my heart strong while I get through the healing process?


----------



## atticus

So does anybody have some advice? I'm getting pretty nervous that I can't go for runs right now because of this, and I don't want it to hamper me on basic (that I'm not running right now). I'm still working on my upper body strength, and have no problem pushing out 30 (or more with the right motivation) pushups in a set. I acually have a super high motabilism (I swear it feels like I drop 15 pounds if I miss a meal) and fear that if I'm not running right now it'll be like starting back up at square one.


----------



## paracowboy

atticus said:
			
		

> So does anybody have some advice? I'm getting pretty nervous that I can't go for runs right now because of this, and I don't want it to hamper me on basic (that I'm not running right now). I'm still working on my upper body strength, and have no problem pushing out 30 (or more with the right motivation) pushups in a set.


so, ya can't run, eh? We'll see about that!

Nah, jus' messin' witcha. What you can do is a circuit training wherein you do push-ups then immediately a set of sit-ups, then 'supermans' (hyperextensions on the floor), then a set of crunches, then a set of wide-grip push-ups, then, etc, etc, etc....see crossfit.com for some arse-kickin' circuits. The trick is not to rest between the sets of each movement, but to keep your heart rate up. It'll have to do until you can run again.

How's that?


----------



## paracowboy

keep your heart rate up for 30 - 40 minutes if you can! You should be just as winded after one of these workouts as you would be after a run. If not, you're screwing the pooch, and I'll be by later to kick your arse.


----------



## Mojo Magnum

what was your method for reaching 50 push ups.  Just doing them everyday?


----------



## atticus

no, acually thats what I'd like to say but truthfully, its because I worked in the oilfield for awhile installing wellheads and putting them together. Lifting all the parts and putting them together is really quite the workout. Next thing I know when I go to workout now I'm doing twice the amount that I was able to do before.


----------



## paracowboy

atticus said:
			
		

> no, acually thats what I'd like to say but truthfully, its because I worked in the oilfield for awhile installing wellheads and putting them together. Lifting all the parts and putting them together is really quite the workout. Next thing I know when I go to workout now I'm doing twice the amount that I was able to do before.


 this is why I've recommended switching your workouts around periodically. (Don't recall offhand if I put that in "my" PT thread or not.)

But, you should stick with a workout plan for about 6 weeks, then switch it up. Throw in cross-training, use dumb-bells only, find a new athletic endeavour, do something different. Your body will change to adapt to the new stressors. 

atticus, you were cross-training. Using the upper body in a new way, so it adapted.


----------



## Spr.Earl

paracowboy said:
			
		

> this is why I've recommended switching your workouts around periodically. (Don't recall offhand if I put that in "my" PT thread or not.)
> 
> But, you should stick with a workout plan for about 6 weeks, then switch it up. Throw in cross-training, use dumb-bells only, find a new athletic endeavour, do something different. Your body will change to adapt to the new stressors.
> 
> atticus, you were cross-training. Using the upper body in a new way, so it adapted.


Folks at the age of 42 I did what Para is telling you and I beat some of the 18,19 yr olds I was competeing against for a over seas tour as a Militia on pre selection,throw swimming into the mix as swimming uses every muscle in your body and it's low impact but builds muscle and is easy on the bod.


----------



## AWood

I am a new Infantry reservist and have been training in cardio and strength for years, but I am never sure when the right time to work out legs is. By working out legs I mean with heavy weights. Is it best to do on the off days, or before or after a run? If anyone has any input on the subject I would appreciate it.


----------



## midgetcop

AWood said:
			
		

> I am a new Infantry reservist and have been training in cardio and strength for years, but I am never sure when the right time to work out legs is. By working out legs I mean with heavy weights. Is it best to do on the off days, or before or after a run? If anyone has any input on the subject I would appreciate it.



I'm not sure what you mean by "off" days, you should incorporate legs into your already existing weight-lifting routine. 

i.e. if you use a split-routine, you can work:

Mon: chest / triceps
Wed: shoulders / back
Fri:    legs / biceps

..or however you wish to combine them. 

Do *not* work your legs after a run. If you can help it at all, don't run on days that you lift. If you're short for time and have to do both in the same day, then lift before doing your cardio.


----------



## MacKenzie1NSH

midgetcop said:
			
		

> If you can help it at all, don't run on days that you lift. If you're short for time and have to do both in the same day, then lift before doing your cardio.



Don't get the wrong idea though, it is highly encouraged to start all work outs off with some cardio, whether it be a 2 minute jog on the tredmil or 2 minutes with a skipping rope, to help prevent straining your cold muscles.  
Chris


----------



## midgetcop

MacKenzie1NSH said:
			
		

> Don't get the wrong idea though, it is highly encouraged to start all work outs off with some cardio, whether it be a 2 minute jog on the tredmil or 2 minutes with a skipping rope, to help prevent straining your cold muscles.
> Chris



Of course. A 5-min warmup is always necessary to get the heartrate up.


----------



## AWood

Thanks for the tips on leg training. By off days I meant days I dont run, usually Sat, Sun. What I am concerned about is over working the muscles, and preventing injury. Thanks guys. :blotto:


----------



## AWood

As a soldier, is running about 6-7 km and up five days week enough of a leg workout? Is weight training essential, and what types of leg routine are best suited for muscle endurance/strength? Any suggestions greatly appreciated, Thanks.


----------



## midgetcop

AWood said:
			
		

> As a soldier, is running about 6-7 km and up five days week enough of a leg workout? Is weight training essential, and what types of leg routine are best suited for muscle endurance/strength? Any suggestions greatly appreciated, Thanks.



Running by itself won't do much for your legs (unless you're a beginner -- then it builds basic endurance).

IMHO weight training ALL major muscle groups is essential, especially legs. 

Squats are a great overall exercise that will not only work all your leg muscles at once, but will also build strength in your back, abs, and hip flexors. Depending on how much weight you use it  can be used to work on both strength AND endurance. 

If you're looking for some good advice, check out my fave fitness site: 

discussfitness.com

(note to mods: I don't work for them, I swear!)


----------



## paracowboy

AWood said:
			
		

> As a soldier, is running about 6-7 km and up five days week enough of a leg workout?


In my personal opinion: no. But many do it.



> Is weight training essential,


 again, in my personal opinion: yes



> what types of leg routine are best suited for muscle endurance/strength?


 the running you do (and start increasing your distance, by the way. Aim for 10 km.) is okay for endurance training. You need to start to incorporate heavy lifting cycles, light weight/high set cycles, and plyometrics for explosive power.


----------



## MacKenzie1NSH

For infantry, what all does the battle efficiancy test consist of? I know a ruck march, trench dig, and running, but I don't know how long  you have to complete each one or how far of a distance it is. Can anyone let me know? 
Chris


----------



## MacKenzie1NSH

jo-dionne said:
			
		

> Does anyone can help me with the VO2 max formula?
> 
> Last stage completed: âÃ‚  ¦
> Final pulse: âÃ‚  ¦
> O2 cost: âÃ‚  ¦
> 
> Predicted VO2
> 17.2 + (1.29 x "O2 costâÃ‚  ) - (0.09 x "wt in kgâÃ‚  ) - (0.18 x "age in yrsâÃ‚  )
> 
> How to determine the O2 cost?
> 17.2 + (1.29 x "O2 costâÃ‚  ) - (0.09 x _78_) - (0.18 x _30_)
> 
> 
> My PT has been rescheduled on Jan 10, 09:00 (CFB Valcartier gym.) and I will be sworn in the next morning (Jan 11) at 07:15 (conditional to my PT results).
> _I cannot emphasis how much I need not to fail my PT!_
> 
> Regards,
> DIONNE, J
> Quebec City



Try this web site, it might be right...

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/maxhr.htm

The easiest and best known method to calculate your maximum heart rate (MHR) is to use the formula MHR=220 - Age. A paper by Londeree and Moeschberger (1982) from the University of Missouri-Columbia indicates that the MHR varies mostly with age, but the relationship is not a linear one. They suggest an alternative formula of MHR=206.3 - (0.711 x Age). Similarly, Miller et al (1993) from Indiana University propose the formula MHR=217 - (0.85 x Age) as a suitable formula to calculate MHR.....


----------



## jo-dionne

Thanks MacKenzie CS,

I have browsed and read each page of this site, however since each formula give different results, so I prefer to use the formula provided by the CF!


CFB Esquimalt (Personnel Support Programs)
http://www.pspesquimalt.ca/fitness/testing/step_test.shtml

Finding Target Heart Rate: (THR)

    220 - Age = A (max HR)
    A X 0.7 (70% max HR) = B (min THR)
    A X 0.9 (90% of max HR) = C (max THR) 

    220 - 30 = 190
    190 x 0.7 = 133 (min THR)
    190 x 0.9 = 171 (max THR)


So, according to this formula, my THR is between _133 and 171_ beats per minute.

Regards,
DIONNE, J
Quebec City


----------



## delta24

Have you ever heard of 5BX training, look for it on the net and you shall find it. It takes 15 min a day but it'll whip you into shape or at least get you ready to whip yourself into shape. All it takes is:

running- 2klm/day every 2nd
pushups- 5 sets 10 every 2nd day... max out ever other
situps- max out every 2nd day... rest every other
pullups- go commando! 3 sets 5 (if you got what it takes and if not do regular!)
if you can swim try to get in 3-5 lengths or laps

NUTRITION: fats: 30-50%                             
                  protien: 20-30
                  carbs: 50-70%

REMEMBER!!! eat healthy foods like fish, rice , potatoes, fibres, whole grain foods etc...


----------



## Cote

One aspect of physical fitness people tend to overlook is ruck marching, it's very benefical if you load up your ruck with way to much weight and do as much as you can.

Naturally when you have to carry you napsack its alot easier.

I call it a napsack


----------



## M Feetham

Dimmer,
If you are talking about physical fitness for ST Jean (basic training). The instructors don't make actual evaluations as to you physical fitness, what we do is look at your performance while doing things like push-ups, sit ups and jogging. There is a CF wide PT test that all recruits have to pass, it is called the CF Express Test. It is made up of Push-ups, Sit ups, hand grip strength, and a 20 metre shuttle run. Part of the Express test is checking your blood pressure and something called VO2 max, I'm not completely sure what that is, sorry. If you are trying to prepare for basic training then I would recommend you start jogging, doing push-ups(minimum 25 per set, different times thruout the day), sit-ups(same thing) and if you are a smoker, i would quit if i were you. Also there is a swimming test that you have to do, which includes jumping off a 15 foot diving board and treading water for 2 minutes. Other than that just a regular workout routine to increase strength and fitness should serve you well. I you have any questions you can post them here or write to me directly.
Marc Feetham (Instructor CFLRS St Jean)


----------



## Temoid

Can someone offer me advice as to what I'm doing wrong?

About 2 months ago, I started doing running, situps and pushups. Since I haven't done any cardio for 2 years and just lifted weights, it was tough. But nevertheless, I went up from 20 pushups/situps to 28 and still going strong in that department. As for running, I went from 800 m to 3000 m (not paced). This is where I hit a concrete wall. By the time I run 2.7-3km I am deader than a dead carp and absolutely miserable. I run a trail around a golf course which has its share of ups and downs and my goal is to run around it twice (5.5km) before I enlist. I don't know what's holding me back and making me so miserable though. Not enough clothing? Shoes? Genetic defect? Am I a pussy who has to try harder and just keep at it?


----------



## midgetcop

Don't worry, I doubt it's any kind of genetic defect.  

It's not that you're doing anything "wrong" per se, but it sounds like you might want to add some variety into your cardio training. Running the same route over and over again isn't going to place any new demands on your cardio system, and therefore it's not going to adapt and therefore improve. 

Alternate your days of distance running with Hi Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). It might help push you through the plateau you are experiencing. Since you mentioned that you've already trained with weights in the past, I'm assuming that you already know how to eat the right foods and properly fuel your body.


----------



## GGHG_Cadet

So I have my NSCE testing coming up in a couple weeks and part of the testing is a physical fitness test. I have been working hard to improve my running and my pushups, which have improved, but I have no clue on how to improve my standing long jump. If anybody knows how to get a farther jump please tell me because I really need to improve. Currently I jump about 165-170cm but I have to get 185cm. If anybody can help, please do.


----------



## ERIK2RCR

Really..REALLY stretch your upper legs out before you go( hip flexor/groin ) , then you're looking to do almost a leapfrog move in the air, with your feet out to the side( if you can picture that. You don't really jump further, but your feet don't touch the ground as soon.


----------



## plattypuss

Try box jumps, squats, lunges.


----------



## Off my Stack

I have a question for anyone who has completed BMQ training.  What kind of runs can I expect 5k, 10k? I've been running for a good eight months, a lot of interval training to increase my speed, coupled with at least 20miles per week. I'm just wondering if there will be any free time to go on runs at BMQ  (definitely not worried about MOC not being hard enough. from what I have read on this board). Cause I have have worked pretty hard to get where I am, and don't want to lose it.


----------



## Gouki

Despite your quesetions already being answered many times on the board, I'll answer them for you here.

Expect on average 5km, though it will depend on your staff. You may run every day. You may run every two days. Again, depends on the staff.

Don't expect much free time to do your own runs, because that will be spend on your kit and layout/room. On the weekends you do get off, you can, if you really want.


----------



## AFireinside13

My question is about chinups and pullups. I can do 9 and 5 respectively, and want to increase those numbers. I work out fairly often (3-4 times a week) but haven't started to work my back/lats as much as i should have ( I was uneducated). 
I was just wondering about a few good execrises and number or reps/set to use for each one that would help me improve in those areas. Thanks!


----------



## ERIK2RCR

Not trying to be sarcastic, but the best exercise for pullups/chinups is...........Pullups and chinups.


----------



## StevenPeece

To lose weight I would recommend drinking a pint of water before every meal.  This will fill your stomach and should stop you eating excessively. Make sure you exercise regularly and build it up week by week so that yuou're always pushing your lilits but improving.  Cut out all the crap food, i.e. fried foods and boil everything. Don't eat crisps Pizzas, biscuits etc  Don't eat 4 hours before you go to bed becasue the fat just lies on your stomach.

To improve your pull ups, use the pull down lat machine to strengthen your latiismus Dorsai (lats).  Work at increasing the weight and then have another crack at your pullups.

Regards

Steven Preece
Author


----------



## Randy_15

What is the difference between a pull up and a chin up? And how are you supposed to figure out what a healthy body weight would be, other than going and asking a doctor.

Randy


----------



## dangerboy

Jaxson said:
			
		

> Chin ups and pull ups are different in only one way, wether your hands face Palms in, or if they face Palms out, which is which has slipped from my mind at the present.. just aim for 6 of each that should do you just fine.


Chin ups are palms in pull ups palms out.


----------



## Chimo

This Body for Life wesite has a lot of useful information for calculating Body Mass, Body Fat, etc

Enjoy http://www.bodyforlife.com/exercise/tools.asp


----------



## AFireinside13

GUNNER2RCR said:
			
		

> Not trying to be sarcastic, but the best exercise for pullups/chinups is...........Pullups and chinups.


Well I know that, but i can only do so many until i can't do anymore. I want to do sets for the muscles involved, i was just wondering if anyone has done anything that has worked for them.


----------



## Mortar guy

What you could do is do as many pull ups or chin ups as you can and then start 'cheating'. By that I mean you can do assisted pull/chin ups with a machine or a rubber band, you could 'kip' your chin ups (technique where you use momentum to do extra reps), or you could do jumping chin/pull ups and work the negatives. That way you are still using the muscles you want to work and you are mimicking the full movement as closely as possible.

MG


----------



## Dguy

I have a nagging leg injury from BMQ in January. I'm now in SQ and having trouble with the morning PT run. I had to drop back both times. I have no trouble with the Ruck marches but when I run the injury comes back.... What do I do ?

What happens if I can't complete the 10 K run ?

Any good advice is appreciated.

Thanks

Dguy


----------



## orange.paint

DGUY, leave now.

As for the guy asking how to improve pull-up's yes just keep doing them but a little differnt.

I can do 10 pull-ups right now (it's my weak point) and am trying to improve.Start by doing the full number you can.Rest 30 seconds.Divide you max in half and keep doing sets of those (for me it would be 5 pullups rest 30sec) until you can't do 5 proper.Then divide in half and keep doing that until you cant do 1 properly.(if its a uneven number round down.)

In about a month you'll be noticing the difference


----------



## Dguy

I was looking for more constructive advice. I don't know what you mean by "Leave Now"

I have contacted my local YMCA where I am a member and have met with a personal trainer. We have already laid out a game plan and workouts to improve my running. I have also booked an appointment to meet with my Doc this week to discuss the injury. I want to work through this and complete SQ fully.

I just need some advice on how to work with the SQ personnel

Dguy


----------



## M Feetham

Why are you going to the "Y"? If you go to the base gym and talk to PSP staff they can set you up with any type of workout routine you need. That is one of the things they get paid for. Along with making sure no one passes the express for pushups. Other than that don't forget most civilians have no idea what the SQ is like so they don't necessarily know what to prepare for. Talk to the military sources before you go to the civies, it could save you some hassles.
Marc


----------



## Dguy

I'm in the Reserves , I don't believe we have access to that kind of help. As far as I know we're on are own when it comes to conditioning and injuries.

Dguy


----------



## M Feetham

Dude,
Do you have a military ID card? If the answer is yes then walk into the nearest base gym and go talk to the PSP staff. If the answer is no then there is definitley something wrong because REG force or Reserve all members of the CF are supposed to have ID, and you should probably go talk to your unit security officer. Also wether or not you are on a callout (A,B,C class contracts) or just going to Thursday night musters shouldn't make a difference, you are still allowed to use the gym facilities at a base. Hope  this helps.
Marc.


----------



## C.Fitzgerald

I was wondering if any one heard about the new pt standard for officers in the CIC if so does any one have any paper work on this or know where to get the info.


----------



## mikey16

yeah I kind of have the same problem except I need to loose about 100lbs before I can join. Im going to try one of your ideas starting today. Im 6 foot 6 and I am supposed to weigh 235, why is that the maximum weight?


----------



## Fraser.g

I discovered a fantastic site for planning runs! 
I use it for Ruck marches as well. Check it out!
http://www.mapmyrun.com

Its free and easy to use.
Enjoy

GF


----------



## MikeL

Found a website with some good info on stretches, work out plan, diet, etc 

http://www.ocs.usmc.mil/New_Web_Format/Candidate_Information/Male%20Plan.htm


----------



## kratz

Word came down today through my CoC that the CDS is looking at the results of this year's MPFS. With approximately a quarter of members having trouble passing, word is they are considering the possibility of raising the standard to be effective for 2007/2008. If this higher standard moves ahead, then all members would be expected to Exempt their MPFS each year. I wanted to know what others have heard on this item.


----------



## The_Falcon

Do you have anything to back up this rumour like a CANFORGEN, memo, policy?


----------



## kratz

No, there was nothing in writing and no policy has been set yet. I posted to find out if there was more information available from anyone that might know. No harm in asking.


----------



## armyvern

Well I can tell you that the Unit I belong to will have to do both the Army BFT and the Express test next FY (07/08). I am quite looking forward to it too. It is a step in the right direction at least.


----------



## navymich

kratz said:
			
		

> Word came down today through my CoC that the CDS is looking at the results of this year's MPFS. With approximately a quarter of members having trouble passing, word is they are considering the possibility of raising the standard to be effective for 2007/2008. If this higher standard moves ahead, then all members would be expected to Exempt their MPFS each year. I wanted to know what others have heard on this item.



Heard the exact same thing this past Wed on my ILQ.  It was told to the whole course during our last SME lecture which happened to be presented by the CCWO's.


----------



## orange.paint

So the minimal fitness level will be what is the exempt level is now?

So all these people who got promoted this year who barley passed the express test/ BFT;will I get to see their careers stop when they can't get to the exempt level?

They came out and said pers who didn't meet the fitness standard would no go on career courses,yet I know of two troops who have failed the BFT yet went on PLQ.I also seen people fail express test day one of PLQ and continue on with course and were told they had to pass at the end.Somehow that testing was not carried out and they proceeded to get the qualification.

If you cant reach level 6,how the heck are they expecting the unfit quarter of our army to go to level 8?

I use to be excited about this sort of thing,but alas I will venture out on a limb and say this:

Next year will come,nothing will change.As per the past year of canforgens on fitness which were ignored.I'm fit,I am exempt.Yet the other cpl who is overweight and cannot pass is still as qualified as myself.

Another bunch of useless ramblings which no one will listen to IMHO.Last time I looked unfit were getting ahead as per.
Really what will they do with quarter of our army who suddenly cannot do their jobs due to not being fit for service?


----------



## paracowboy

099* said:
			
		

> Next year will come, nothing will change. As per the past year of canforgens on fitness which were ignored....Another bunch of useless ramblings which no one will listen to...Last time I looked unfit were getting ahead as per...Really what will they do with quarter of our army who suddenly cannot do their jobs due to not being fit for service?


ditto.


----------



## armyvern

099* said:
			
		

> So the minimal fitness level will be what is the exempt level is now?
> 
> So all these people who got promoted this year who barley passed the express test/ BFT;will I get to see their careers stop when they can't get to the exempt level?



Well, think about it. Anybody serving in a Land Op Postion this FY/or even last FY who did the BFT got an "exempt" on their PER already as they always do. 

A person posted from a AF or Naval position into a Land Op position is still required to do a BFT, even if they have achieved an "exempt" on an Express Test that FY. Maybe it's just me, but in my Unit if they didn't pass their BFT, they got a "fail" even though they had done the Express with an exempt, because that is the Army Fitness standard. One pers did file a grievance, and lost.

I'm not talking about the "standard" of either of these tests. I'm just saying that achieving an "exempt" vice a pass standard is the norm in the Army.

Go from an Army Base to an Air or Naval after having done a BFT, guess what...automatic exempt for you....no Express Test required.

So in regards to your comment "anybody who barely passed a BFT" and you watching their careers stop when they can't get the exempt level...delete the BFT...because those guys who did barely pass that BFT...already get an "exempt."


----------



## orange.paint

True enough.It really doesnt make sense that a BFT which I dont think is a good example of someones fitness gets you excempt even if you haul your fat slobbering carcas over the finish line in 2 hrs 20 min.So really the min standard is the excempt standard.I discussed this sort of earlier the year



			
				The Librarian said:
			
		

> Well, think about it. Anybody serving in a Land Op Postion this FY/or even last FY who did the BFT got an "exempt" on their PER already as they always do.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but in my Unit if they didn't pass their BFT, they got a "fail" even though they had done the Express with an exempt, because that is the Army Fitness standard. One pers did file a grievance, and lost.


I know one that came in 2 hrs 20 minutes"ish"(read close to 2h30) and was somehow excempt.Im not sure if its their gygantic size that created a small time zone,but it always seems to happen. "The buddy system".
Having said this its the same person creature who failed the BFT, then failed express.Then put on remedial and placed on PLQ.



			
				The Librarian said:
			
		

> so in regards to your comment "anybody who barely passed a BFT" and you watching their careers stop when they can't get the exempt level...delete the BFT...because those guys who did barely pass that BFT...already get an "exempt."



If you can walk for 2 hours,your in superbe shape.So basically what this new directive is stating that in the army you will have to meet the same standard as before?Sounds like a way to trick the outside world into believeing were doing something about fitness.

cheers vern




BFT trumps express everytime.
Canforgens get ignored.
fattys unite and push back the clock.


----------



## armyvern

099* said:
			
		

> If you can walk for 2 hours,your in superbe shape.So basically what this new directive is stating that in the army you will have to meet the same standard as before?Sounds like a way to trick the outside world into believeing were doing something about fitness.
> 
> BFT trumps express everytime.
> Canforgens get ignored.
> fattys unite and push back the clock.



Well, I am of the belief that the Express test is a "lower" standard than the BFT. That is why those who do sucessfully complete the BFT get an automatic exempt on their PERs, while those who achieve only the minimum standard on Expres get a simple "pass."

Please do not assume that I agree with the standard of either one of these tests. But I know pers who can hump their ruck forever and a day (figuatively speaking of course), pump the push ups and sit-ups off like crazy, dig their trench, do their firemans carry, but can not for the life of themselves manage to do that shuttle run. 

And I know people who can achieve exempt on the express, who couldn't carry a ruck 13ks if their life depended on it. 

At least doing both tests is more "rounded." I'm not saying that standard of doing them both is a high enough standard either, but it is a move in the right direction.

I'm not a runner. I would much rather be rucking for 20k than running 2. Running hurts my knees. But can I do an Express? Well I've done 2 in my career (during my AF posting), and achieved exempt on both, and I didn't quit when I hit the exempt level, I went as far as I could.

I am of the opinion, that by having to do 'both' tests, we are going to be more rounded and will see a marked increase in the fails. But don't be surprised either when some of those big muscley army guys can't pass the shuttle run. So the Army achieving the same standard as they do now? No, now at least in my Unit they will have to do both. And I think you'll see alot pass the BFT and fail the shuttle run. I've seen it.


----------



## orange.paint

The Librarian said:
			
		

> At least doing both tests is more "rounded." I'm not saying that standard of doing them both is a high enough standard either, but it is a move in the right direction.


+1.More testing the better IMHO. (maybe more rounded to make other members feel at home? ;D)



			
				The Librarian said:
			
		

> And I know people who can achieve exempt on the express, who couldn't carry a ruck 13ks if their life depended on it.
> And I think you'll see alot pass the BFT and fail the shuttle run. I've seen it.



I have seen more in the way of people being able to pass one or the other using the last as a crutch.Like the guy who just doesn't want to walk 13km getting on the truck and doing a 8 minute run at the express test.And for sure you will see people pass 13km but couldn't run to save their life's on the express.But what is this new directive doing?Making everyone do the express test to exempt levels for their age category?


----------



## armyvern

099* said:
			
		

> I have seen more in the way of people being able to pass one or the other using the last as a crutch.Like the guy who just doesn't want to walk 13km getting on the truck and doing a 8 minute run at the express test.And for sure you will see people pass 13km but couldn't run to save their life's on the express.But what is this new directive doing?Making everyone do the express test to exempt levels for their age category?


Well perhaps, eventually, if they can't pass both the Express & the BFT they will get a "fail."


----------



## MP101

I have a question:

I am planning on going to my BMQ next summer and i will be 18 by then. I weigh 190lbs and i am about 6'2" and am in relatively good shape. Although i am doing weight training every other day and cardiovascular the days inbetween, it is mostly helping with my muscle build and not too much with my weight loss. I eat according to canada's guide to healthy eating and walk aroung often. I also do not drink or smoke, so i have a pretty good health rating. 

I need to know your advice on how to get in better shape (170lb area) or if i should keep my weight. Thanks.


----------



## paracowboy

MP101 said:
			
		

> I have a question:
> 
> I am planning on going to my BMQ next summer and i will be 18 by then. I weigh 190lbs and i am about 6'2" and am in relatively good shape. Although i am doing weight training every other day and cardiovascular the days inbetween, it is mostly helping with my muscle build and not too much with my weight loss. I eat according to canada's guide to healthy eating and walk aroung often. I also do not drink or smoke, so i have a pretty good health rating.
> 
> I need to know your advice on how to get in better shape (170lb area) or if i should keep my weight. Thanks.


weight is immaterial. Can you meet Standard? Are you healthy? If "yes" and "yes", then weight means nothing. If "no" to either, then you need to take a look at your fitness regimen and diet.

The subject of weight in the CF has been covered in great detail elsewhere. Use the Search function, and if you still have questions, pm me.


----------



## daftandbarmy

+1

Weight is relatively immaterial and BMI doesn't mean much in the infantry, unless you're obviously flabby. To give yourself some confidence, pay attention to the standards they've set and try and better them by a decent margin. Da do run run run


----------



## Combat Sailor

First off great work on actually working towards a goal, and being proactive about your upcoming course. You would be quite surprised at how many people show up for BMQ/IAP/BOTP well below the standard required. As said earlier, if you can meet the standards, don't worry too much about the weight. A great way to prepare for your time on BMQ is to do circuit and interval training. Remember the more fit you are when you get there, the easier it will be for you. Keep training and good luck.[/quote]


----------



## daftandbarmy

.... and make sure that you do not show up with a sports injury - one of the by products of over training or not training properly.


----------



## Furtry

This is an exercise I came up with; I call it the Iron Super Man, 12 exercises in one.
With an Olympic bar loaded with your weight.

1) Dead lift, hold the bar and
2) Calf raise, 	
3) Shoulder shrug/trap squeeze
4) Power clean,
5) Squat, bar is across your chest/shoulders,
6) Press over the head as you finish the squat up, lower to the back of neck,
7) Good morning back extension
8) Military press finish in front of chest
9) Squat, finish up,
10) Lower bar to thighs and bend over and do a lat pull/row,
11) Straighten up/ lower back extension,
12) Calf raise/and finish the dead lift by putting the bar down.

Second set do all movements twice. Third set do all movements three times.
If you can do it all with 30-45 second brakes in between sets you are an Iron Super Man.
The best I have ever done is two sets with 135 lbs. I weigh in at 165 lbs. I couldn't even come close to finishing the third set.


----------



## New Brunswicks son

Im currently trying to increase my push ups to about 60-70 in one go. I currently work out 4 times a week.

back/chest
day off
arms/abs
day off
legs
shoulders/abs

and I jog 4-5k 3 times a week

Now here is the question if I do 200 push ups every day (each set is too failure until I reach 200), would this be overtraining?or should I take every other day off.


----------



## PAT-Platoon

Currently I am scared shitless for the PT required in SQ and BIQ. Right now I can maybe do 25 pushups, 35 situps and a 4-5km run. My pull ups/chin ups are horrible, I dont even think I could do 1 pull up. Im in the Reserves and im doing my BMQ on thursday nights, and then on friday nights to sunday nights. So basically, the only time i have during the week to workout is Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and ofcourse PT during BMQ. They gave me the AFS book but how do I exactly follow the program when I dont have the schedule for it? 

Should I scrap the actual schedule and just use the circuits they give me or?


----------



## Mdrinka

I'm preparing for the CF express test and, unlike most people, the thing I am worried about is the hand grip test. I have relatively skinny arms, what would be the best thing for me to do to gain strength?


----------



## orange.paint

Honestly I would not worry about it.I have never heard of ANYONE ever failing the grip test.My wife is tiny,she had no problems.However you can buy those hand grip exercisers at usually anystore (dollar store).There alright to use sitting around watching TV for boredom....
Here's a link anyway.I have the one similar only a coiled spring as resistance.


http://deforceenterprises.com/bfs/adjustable-hand-grip.html

If you can pass everything else I would not give it a second chance.


----------



## T.R.Hayward

The part I have trouble with is the push-ups. I've tried to gain strength in the chest but just can't seem to do it. I'm starting to think that I'll never be able to get fit.

It doesn't help that I'm thirty-five years old....

I'm 6'2" and 240 lbs, and I have great difficulty doing more than 20 push-ups.

Are the requirements the same for the Reserves and the Cadet Instructor Cadre?

Best Wishes,

-Rick


----------



## Catamaran22

You can find the good ARMY FITNESS MANUAL, 2004 (http://armyapp.dnd.ca/38CBG_ARSD/CBTIST/top7/B-GL-382-003-PT-001.pdf) in a link at www3.telus.net/helper33


----------



## orange.paint

T.R.Hayward said:
			
		

> The part I have trouble with is the push-ups. I've tried to gain strength in the chest but just can't seem to do it. I'm starting to think that I'll never be able to get fit.
> 
> It doesn't help that I'm thirty-five years old....
> 
> I'm 6'2" and 240 lbs, and I have great difficulty doing more than 20 push-ups.
> 
> Are the requirements the same for the Reserves and the Cadet Instructor Cadre?
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> -Rick



The only way you can get good at push-ups is doing push-ups.Our society constantly looks for new and easier ways to lose weight,improve performance and physically appear in better condition.The is unfortunately no push up pills.Therefore actually do push-ups.It will not come to you over night,maybe not over a month.Let's face it you didn't go to bed last night and wake up unable to do any pushups due to weak muscles.It has been due to lack of exercise and lack of time put into ones body over the years.

All the information has been covered in other physical fitness forums in regards to push-ups,how to improve etc.There are a variety of training plans,however they all revolve around actually doing them.

Reserve PT requirements are the same as its regular force counterparts.However they lack time and compensation)For further discussion type my name in and you will see my once bitter self discussing lack of any standard army wide.

CIC does not have a physical fitness standard.(In case you wish to discuss this there is a post on it )

Also saying your 6'2 240 pounds is really irrelevant.As 90 pounds could be fat covering very weak muscles,or you could be extremely built.However with a comment about not being able to do 20 PU,I opt for the prior.

As for the comment "it doesn't help when I'm 35 years old".Its an excuse for years of neglect on your body.We have plenty of instructors in our cadre who are plus 30 who are in excellent physical condition.Plenty of members on this board in fact over 30 who can run laps around the children joining today.(I also once covered fatness in the army/society finding the nexus between them)

If you expect to get fit overnight forget it,go get a bag of Doritos and head back to the couch.

If you think "you'll never be able to get fit" your proably right.As it takes great dedication and mental toughness to whip your body into shape.And with a failure outlook,you will most likely not go far.Hey another 30 years you can get a Canada pension anyway.Why not relax and wait for it to roll in.

As for joining the army in deplorable shape don't worry about it.Our army accepts (not excluding each generalisation to 1 per person):

*mentally weak (the physically fit guys who just fall out....its easier you know)
*broken (spend most of your course on chit.Only to recover miraculous for the fun stuff/must participate for graduation.Then grad and become a useless asshole in a section)
*The excuse guy ("We'll I blew my knee out on a 1 km run 27 years ago...that's why I'm so big" ..example)
*The lack of dedication guy (i COULD get into shape,however I'll just wait for them to make me)
*extremely obese (Human rights and all)

We will accommodate you!
*Too big for CF'S?We will have a special set made for you!
*Too lazy to actually do PT during the mornings?We will give you time off work in the afternoons to work with PSP staff!(prior to 14h00 of        course,wouldn't want to cut into YOUR time with all that work stuff.)
*come in a little over the BFT timings? DONT WORRY! Nothings official! 2:26:20ish will suffice.

And to make it all better you can charge us when we yell at your lazy ass on PT! We use to call it motivation however now telling a young guy to "hurry up and catch the group"Is harassment.

So either way you want to look at it your safe in the army.

Sidenote: Ever want to become clean of narcotics?Ever wonder what life without coke would be like?We'll join the army!We will put you on C&P for 1 year,give you drug counselling and a year off basically!PAID top army private pay!Then we will all of a sudden trust you to deploy overseas as a gunner,return and be promoted to yet another rank.

LOWEST COMMON DENOMIATOR.


But yeah....just pratice Push-ups a few times a week.


----------



## M Feetham

Hey, Ex RCAC,
I agree with just about everything you said in your last post. I am one of those over 35ers who can run circles around the kids. The one thing I don't quite agree with is the part about being charged for "motivating the troops", I have been an instructor at CFLRS for two years and nobody that I know here at the school has ever been charged for yelling at either recruits or officer candidates. A couple have had harrassment complaints, but once the investigation has been completed they were found to be groundless. Yes the fact that the standard is now practically non-existant sucks hard. Some of the folks joining the forces nowadays are pretty much useless. Out of shape, over weight and lazy. However it is pretty easy to get rid of that kind of excess baggage. Early morning PT, pushups and the ever popular Mcpl/MS power hour.(I love the dead cockroach and C7 strengthening drills). A little bit of pressure applied in the right place at the right time does wonders, and now they are bringing in a new voluntary release form that will cut the wait to get out from 4-6 weeks to approx 2 weeks. It is a new initiative so we will have to wait a while to see how it works out. Take heart my friend if the instructors at all the bases that teach BMQ/IAP/BOTP are dedicated and remain adamant in maintaining discipline then the final product for graduates will not be so bad. That is not to say that some garbage won't make it thru, but then no process is perfect. Feel free to let me know (as if you wouldn't) if you disagree.
Thanks, Marc


----------



## orange.paint

M Feetham said:
			
		

> Hey, Ex RCAC,
> I agree with just about everything you said in your last post. I am one of those over 35ers who can run circles around the kids. The one thing I don't quite agree with is the part about being charged for "motivating the troops", I have been an instructor at CFLRS for two years and nobody that I know here at the school has ever been charged for yelling at either recruits or officer candidates. A couple have had harrassment complaints, but once the investigation has been completed they were found to be groundless. Yes the fact that the standard is now practically non-existant sucks hard. Some of the folks joining the forces nowadays are pretty much useless. Out of shape, over weight and lazy. However it is pretty easy to get rid of that kind of excess baggage. Early morning PT, pushups and the ever popular Mcpl/MS power hour.(I love the dead cockroach and C7 strengthening drills). A little bit of pressure applied in the right place at the right time does wonders, and now they are bringing in a new voluntary release form that will cut the wait to get out from 4-6 weeks to approx 2 weeks. It is a new initiative so we will have to wait a while to see how it works out. Take heart my friend if the instructors at all the bases that teach BMQ/IAP/BOTP are dedicated and remain adamant in maintaining discipline then the final product for graduates will not be so bad. That is not to say that some garbage won't make it thru, but then no process is perfect. Feel free to let me know (as if you wouldn't) if you disagree.
> Thanks, Marc



We at out center have not had the problem.Rather at the unit itself.I won't get into too many details,well no more than I already have.But the harrassment charge went up for it.However your right Marc,motivation is just that.Not harrassment.And to tell you the truth I would like to see that charge try to pass on a recruit course.

And your right no process is perfect.At you or anyones end.


----------



## Bane

I response to Mdrinka and EX RCAC regarding the hand grip strength test; I was on a my phase III platoon cmdrs course in winter 2000 in Gagetown, the school was quiet becuase it was the winter and really quiet because 2RCR was on deployment. There was about 30 guys that started the course most with a couple years in and some, like me, were from the fall phase II. 5 guys were punted because they failed the grip test, 2 more for fitness issues all in the first week or week and a half. Most of us on course were a little put out at this as some of these guys were/are really good soliders.  The staff got lots of milage out of bringing up the grip test at EVERY opportunity (problems with stoppages for example) for the next 2 months or so. I don't know what things are like now...but i'd do your best to ensure you fit in every way possible.  The standards are the standards. Full stop.


----------



## orange.paint

Bane said:
			
		

> I response to Mdrinka and EX RCAC regarding the hand grip strength test; I was on a my phase III platoon cmdrs course in winter 2000 in Gagetown, the school was quiet becuase it was the winter and really quiet because 2RCR was on deployment. There was about 30 guys that started the course most with a couple years in and some, like me, were from the fall phase II. 5 guys were punted because they failed the grip test, 2 more for fitness issues all in the first week or week and a half. Most of us on course were a little put out at this as some of these guys were/are really good soliders.  The staff got lots of milage out of bringing up the grip test at EVERY opportunity (problems with stoppages for example) for the next 2 months or so. I don't know what things are like now...but i'd do your best to ensure you fit in every way possible.  The standards are the standards. Full stop.



Wow 
That is honestly the first time I've ever heard of anyone failing the grip test.
If you don't mind me asking what were the demographics of these people?Were they Hobbits?
As I alluded to earlier my wife at 98lbs had no problems.No one on any of my courses ever had problems with it.
But again as I said if you feel you may have issues,buy some of those grip machines I posted.
Also I'm sure if you dropped by a base during working hours and went to see the PSP staff,they could let you try the grip test out.It takes 5 seconds.


----------



## armyvern

Someone actually failed a grip test??

It's also the first time I've ever heard of it. I even exceed the male standard for the grip test and I'm a ~_gasp_~ girl. And I'm not a big hulking girl either.

This is just too weird.

Vern


----------



## George Wallace

This has been covered before, but.....it is actually easy to fail the Grip Test.  If the 'Candidate' is not given the proper instructions by the 'Tester', through lack of knowledge, or omission, then the Candidate may not properly adjust the mechanism to fit their hand and fail the test.


----------



## Bane

All the guys were between 19 and 30 years old, mix of reserve and Reg. force. One of the guys I can say was bone thin, but it was a bit of surpise to all involved that so many were let go.  Because the battle school was so quiet, if I recall correctly we were the only course running that winter, I can't say if it made it harder or easier on us but it serves as a good cautionary tail. I have also never heard of people being punted for this reasion either before or since, but there you are. There is a good side to this story, most of the guys that left in that first week went back in the spring and passed the course as far as I remember.


----------



## ShediacNB

Hi..This is my first post. I read the help file but I'm still nottoo sure how this works. Its my first time in a forum. So I hope I'm doing this right.
Anyway. I'm 32 years old. I have smoked for over 10 years and I have quit about 5 1/2 months ago. I have taken the aptitude test and spoke to the recruiter a few times. I want to enlist as an LCIS I'm allready a computer tech with about 3 years experience. Anyway..I'm wondering if 32 is too old? I'm not in shape at all. I have started jogging and working out. I must say that I need to loose some weight also..I'm 6ft3 and about 238 lbs. Anyway..Is this a realistic goal? Does anyone have any advice as to what I should be doing in order to get into shape enough to get through BMQ?..I really want this..but as I said..32 years old and not in shape...what are my chances..I'm not afraid to work for it...any advice welcome...thank you


----------



## Bane

Where there is a will there is a way. 
    Your experience will be different than a recruit who joins at 18, but that doesn't mean it will be bad.  What I have heard from some guys on IAP this year is that there are is good number of 'older' guys around (mid 20's ish and up). Some of the people in here will no doubt have better information than me on this and can confirm of deny this, again just what I've heard. 
     As you mention, your fitness will be the big issue but as long as there is no medical reason that you can't train, you should be able to whip yourself into shape in 6-8 months or so, ball park guess. As far as fitness goes, I personally think the hardest part for you will be the pacing of your regeim; You must push yourself enough to improve rapidly and constantly, but not so fast that you get discouraged, burnt out or worse, hurt. This is a difficult thing to do and your lack of fitness experiance will make it that much harder for you to 'read' your body. A few visits to a personal trainer to get you off in the proper direction might be in order. Also a few follow up visists to get them to assess your progress. 
Even if you don't do that, keep a fitness/nutrition journal as it will motivate you and keep you in check. 

As a personal note, I had a bunch of older guys (late 20's to mid/late 30's) on some of my courses; the majority did just fine and were a pleasure to have around as they added a different temperament to groups which is very useful.


----------



## saki

I dont really think age or the fact thar ur not fit has anything to do with ur potential ability to join the army. 4 months ago i was 5'6 and 125 pounds and i am 20 years old. now i am still 5'6 but 155 pounds and gonna be 21 in 2 months. I have been training my but off for the last 4 months thinking about how the last 2 years at university were uselless because i wasnt enjoying it. All i want to do is join the army and serve my country. Everyone said i wont be able to make it, but over the past 4 months of hard work, proper dieting that reality is just that much closer. So dont worry about ur age, if u want something hard and if u feel deprived, just work at it. I never thought i would ever get as far as i have, but i have. and even though i feel i am ready for the army, i still feel there is more improvements that can be made. its all about exercising, proper nutrition and the will to make it. most importantly its preparing urself for a completly different lifestyle. good luck on ur training, u are blessed with a 6'3 frame, and if u can cut 30 pounds i think ur good enough to kick some ass even at age 32 ( which isnt that old by the way) lol.


----------



## Mdrinka

So, yesterday morning at the gym I go to, I asked to borrow the hand grip thing to test, and I got more than the army requires. I was really relieved, 35 is really not that much


----------



## saki

lol thats the spirit, keep up the good work


----------



## chappyk

it would be nice to get my hands on a grip tester.....and for all you guys worrying about age, heck, I am 34 and going to basic training this June and will be training as a Medical Technician.  I only started working out this past January.  Now i do worry a bit about being able to keep up with you young guys, BUT I know I can do it, and will. I have been running mostly every other day, doing my pushups and situps, and figure that as long as i keep it up and do well enough at the mental game I will do fine. Eating properly?? Well um, thats another story.


----------



## blacktriangle

Diet changes alot for me...eat well, and I can run 10km no problem...eat crap and I start feeling it at 5km lol.


----------



## chappyk

10 k?  I hope that I will be able to get to that level some day.  Thats what you get for not being too physically active till the day you decide to join the CF, lol.


----------



## AaronDel

just a quick question i found a bunch of stuff displayed below on a good training schedule but im asking a few questions about it. and this is what i want to do and i want to know if it will get me in good shape and running condition for the BMQ. my current shape is well.. i can do about 30 pushups 100 situps, 7 chin ups and i have not really ran since grade 12 which was like 1 year ago and i have not really ran since then but i was a pretty good run. im 18 around 165 lbs not fat or w/e lool. 
Now to the questions below would this be good for BMQ i have 2 months to train and i wonder if i can get very very good results by then.
also it shows only 3 days out of the week are running i mean.. would it be better to just run everyday for 2 months strait or the 3 day per week deal as shown below? also week 3.. what kind of Injury we talking if i do plan on running 3 days a week or 5-6 days a week should i take a week off for w/e reason? hopefully its better to run everyday for 2 momnths which would be like 62 days of strait running without the account of feelin sore and all that.. anyways any suggestions on what i should do with my current condition?
PS: sry for my bad grammar and stuff.. comp took that away lol

Week 1: Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 2 miles per day, 9:30 or so pace 6 miles/week
Week 2: Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 2 miles per day, 9:30 or so pace 6 miles/week
Week 3: No running - High risk for injury
Week 4: Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 3 miles per day
Week 5: Monday - 2 mi, Tuesday - 3 mi, Thursday - 4 mi, Friday - 2 mi
Week 6: Monday - 2 mi, Tuesday - 3 mi, Thursday - 4 mi, Friday - 2 mi
Week 7: Monday - 4 mi, Tuesday - 4 mi, Thursday - 5 mi, Friday - 3 mi
Week 8: Monday - 4 mi, Tuesday - 4 mi, Thursday - 5 mi, Friday - 3 mi
Week 9: Monday - 4 mi, Tuesday - 4 mi, Thursday - 5 mi, Friday - 3 mi

PHYSICAL TRAINING SCHEDULE I (Mon/Wed/Fri)

SETS OF REPETITIONS
WEEK #1  : 4X15 PUSHUPS, 4X20 SITUPS, 3X3 PULL UPS
WEEK #2  : 5X20 PUSHUPS, 5X20 SITUPS, 3X3 PULL UPS
WEEK #3,4: 5X25 PUSHUPS, 5X25 SITUPS, 3X4 PULL UPS
WEEK #5,6: 6X25 PUSHUPS, 6X25 SITUPS, 2X8 PULL UPS
WEEK #7,8: 6X30 PUSHUPS, 6X30 SITUPS, 2X10 PULL UPS
WEEK #9  : 6X30 PUSHUPS, 6X30 SITUPS, 3X10 PULL UPS


----------



## mml

Someone said that you dont run the 2.4 when  you go for your ohysical assesment  inseatd you do the step test instead??

Just trying to clarify and get an idea.


----------



## chappyk

they dont do the step test anymore.  When you get to basic, you have to perform the EXPRESS test.  Which is running at different rates of speed between pilons.  Acccording to the CFLRS website, its done on the first Thursday.


----------



## mysteriousmind

as for Pres summer BMQ, you get it the first days its express test....if you succed, the next day, you get your gear, if you fail...you a returned home and you will recoursed to an other course. 


I think its a brilliant way


----------



## safeboy43

mysteriousmind said:
			
		

> as for Pres summer BMQ, you get it the first days its express test....if you succed, the next day, you get your gear, if you fail...you a returned home and you will recoursed to an other course.
> 
> 
> I think its a brilliant way


+1 mysteriousmind. It's a much better use of $$$ and time to bring the recruit up to standard if he/she fails the express test as opposed to spending money on the recruiting process and turning them away if they failed the fitness evaluation.


----------



## Keebler

chappyk said:
			
		

> they dont do the step test anymore.  When you get to basic, you have to perform the EXPRESS test.  Which is running at different rates of speed between pilons.  Acccording to the CFLRS website, its done on the first Thursday.



On the CFLRS site, Week 0 states it is the second day (Tuesday). So i believe you may have been looking at Week 1, which obviously has some errors as it states giving everyone kit before the CF express test.  I have heard from other people who have recently gone through BMQ in St. Jean that it is done on the second day as well, before any kit is issued. Just be prepared to complete the test right away, and if unfit, head to RFT for additional training.


----------



## mml

RFT  for more training ?? Stands for what ?
Recoursed for another course.I am  assuming this means they will put  you in a different unit or division .But I  thought all ROTP training was the same and had the same physical aspects.
So  how would putting you in a different course  be  any different/better??


OK so no step test anymore like it says on the website for joining.... So now (even before you  go to  basic training)you go   hand in your  application,wait for a call and they will step up and interview,aptitude testing,medical testing  and physical testing which includes the grip test,sit ups,push  ups and what else(physically )? 


Thanks,

Melanie


----------



## Keebler

RFT is Recruit Fitness Training...basically you have 90days to get in shape with the help of PSP staff. This is for Reg force. Not sure how or if it applies to ROTP!!  

EDIT: spelling of recruit.


----------



## mml

So  they send you home for 90 days    or you stay there and  they train you....?? 


So the people that say if you dont pass the express test are incorrect... you stay to see if you can get up to par?


----------



## aesop081

mml said:
			
		

> So  they send you home for 90 days    or you stay there and  they train you....??



Ok...this is the part where you use your head.....

The people on RFT couldnt get themselves into shape at home before going to basic....WTF would the military send them back home to try AGAIN to get ready ?


----------



## mysteriousmind

the only thing, that bugs me...and dint take this as whining...

Its more of a questioning then a bug.

If you are returned...how...will you know how to get to that level...I know its a personal meter but...do you have a guide, will they...give you advice.

I know all the information can be found over internet...or over a training specialist. but..not every one knows how to find this info.


----------



## mml

Well  there are  two  different answers ..One person says you get sent home and one doesnt... Sooo 



Thanks,

Mel


----------



## aesop081

mml said:
			
		

> Well  there are  two  different answers ..One person says you get sent home and one doesnt... Sooo
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mel



YOU DONT GET SENT HOME....YOU GET SENT TO RFT PLATOON UNTIL YOU CAN GET YOUR A** IN SHAPE AND PASS LIKE YOU WERE SUPOSED TO THE FIRST TIME AROUND !!!!

You get 90 days to pass....after that, go work at A&W......


----------



## mml

OMG chill out


----------



## Keebler

Reserve - sent home
Reg Force - RFT platoon
ROTP - NO IDEA

Why does it matter, just get in shape and dont worry about it, if you work at it, you will pass. If your not in shape then its your own fault.


----------



## benl

mml, from what I understand you get sent to the "warrior platoon" where you do NOTHING but PT.  You have a maximum of 90 days in the WP to reach the physical standards required by the CF.  Anyone on any sort of intelligent exercise program who trains for 90 days will pass the tests administered.  If you (and this isn't a personal attack) can't get in the proper shape in 90 days, with the help of the instructors, not to mention a stricter diet (I believe WP members diets are restricted, although I'm not sure on that) while in the WP then god help your withered decrepid body.  Also try putting "warrior platoon" in the search function, I'm sure you'll find all the info you need...As the vets around here say
Welcome to Army.ca...start reading!


----------



## Keebler

Awhile back i was messaging with a recruit who just passed his express test after going to RFT and was advised this is what happens in RFT Platoon.

"You do weights in the morning (alternating upper and lower body every other day), and cardio (running, swimming, eliptical, treadmill, or spinning.) We are actually ordered to rest and relax for the weekends, it's our scheduled rest time to recover from the work we do during the week. The only PT we do on the weekends is an hour mandatory of swimming on sundays. Even then, it's not as intensive as the regular PT, because it's done during the 'free swim' time. You can do whatever you want in that hour; diving boards, laps, screwing around with the balls, etc."

And you can check out this article  http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/10_06/10_06_cda_recruit-fitness_e.asp


----------



## benl

I just realized that at the end of the post it sounded like I was referring to myself as an army.ca veteran which was totally not the case!  Sorry for any misunderstnading (if there is or was any by anyone).  I am most certainly NOT an army.ca vet (yet anyway) and am WELL aware of this fact.  :-X


----------



## Jacqueline

Does anyone know a good lower back exercise that can be done without weights? Any help is appreciated thx.


----------



## sean watt

Hi all,


I certainly do not mean to recommend a fad diet here on the forum but I just lost 45 lbs simply be LIMITING my carbs. NOT ATKINS!!!!!
I went from 275 to 230 in 3 months. I am 6"4". I did not start working out until I hit 230. I feel freaking amazing and shedding the big weight first and then working out seemed to eliminate the sports fatigue and injury that I would get hauling my fat arse around. I could not run a step and now I am able to hit the 2 km mark without to much suffering. (please be kind, I am getting better everyday)

This may not be a good diet or a safe diet but I feel great, and cant seem to see any negative results. I take a multivitamin, use a protein shake and have added omega 3/6/9 capsules. 

I appreciate any feedback.


----------



## Dale Denton

Keebler said:
			
		

> Awhile back i was messaging with a recruit who just passed his express test after going to RFT and was advised this is what happens in RFT Platoon.
> 
> "You do weights in the morning (alternating upper and lower body every other day), and cardio (running, swimming, eliptical, treadmill, or spinning.) We are actually ordered to rest and relax for the weekends, it's our scheduled rest time to recover from the work we do during the week. The only PT we do on the weekends is an hour mandatory of swimming on sundays. Even then, it's not as intensive as the regular PT, because it's done during the 'free swim' time. You can do whatever you want in that hour; diving boards, laps, screwing around with the balls, etc."
> 
> And you can check out this article  http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/10_06/10_06_cda_recruit-fitness_e.asp



Thanks for the info and the link. My question is: can people who want to join the reserves get into this program?


----------



## The_Falcon

LoboCanada said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info and the link. My question is: can people who want to join the reserves get into this program?



No, since for the most part reserve training (including portions of you initial training) wiil take place on the weekends.  There simply is not enough time or resources.  And as you will be told when you get to the your reserve you unit, PT is your responsibility not your units.  If you want a fitness program try crossfit or the AFM or CFP.


----------



## combat_clarke

Hopefully this will help with your Strength Conditioning. Well it helped with mine.  I found a book called Combat Conditioning my Matt Furey. Pretty much for the first month you have three exercises. Hindu Squats, Hindu Push Ups and Back Bridging. You do as many as you can until failure they may not seem like much but before you know it you will be able to pump out 100 Hindu Squats, 50 Hindu push ups and Back Bridge and Rock 50 reps and be sweating like a moofoo. You can find these exercises on youtube just type in combat conditioning it will bring you right to Matt Furey. This build a solid foundation for me and if I can do it you can do it.. This is another work out that I got from a gymnast friend of mine they have crazy strength and it took me a while to get this down but I dont think I could have done it with out combat conditioning. Below is a sequence of moves that I count as one rep pretty much starts with 1 Hindu Squat. 1 Burpee with Push up. 1 Squat Jump and builds from there.

1. Hindu Squat, Burpee with push up then when you get up from Burpee Squat Jump. Do this for until Failure.
2. Hindu Squat, Burpee with push up , Squat Jump then add a pull up. Do this until Failure.
3. Hindu Squat, Burpee with push up, Squat Jump then do a Hand Stand Push up. Do this until Failure.
4. Hindu Squat, Burpee with push up, Squat Jump then back bride or wall walk push up. Do this until Failure.
5. Hindu Squat, Burpee with push up, Squat jump then wall walk until you touch the floor then walk in bridge ten steps forward then ten steps back wards.

I hope these exercises help you . I think you will be surprized if you give it a try and stick with it. I tryied to explain my routine the best I could. I also modfy them to how I feel that day some days when I do a Burpee I can do a Plyometric push up just to add another kick or do a handstand plyometric push up and so on just to get the added power in the movement.


As it goes for running I hope this helps. I just do the Beep test one day and running stairs the next alternating them.

beep test consists of you running back and forth between two pylons set at 20 Meters or 65.6 Feet I round it up to 66. 
and you run back and forth between them until failure . You can down load the MP3 from Limewire or what ever you want. and the next day I run up and down steps for 30Minutes boring as hell though so have yourself some good music. I added this to running the steps to give me an extra challenge I have a set of hand weights or elastic bands you buy from wal-mart. while I am running up the steps I throw punches it just adds to the intensity and it is fun cause running steps suck.


For the abs I just do Ab ripper X it is 15 minutes of ab work and I do this every other day usually the days after I run the stairs.


so hopefully all these exercises will help you peace out...


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## Spartan

HOnestly - I have some of the furey books - what he calls things is not revolutionary - just how much he flaunts things as his own are a little tiresome - not to say the excercises don't work...


----------



## combat_clarke

I agree with you in the aspect that Matt Furey does like to toot his own horn . Believe you me I would rather read one of his books then to listen to him talk ten hours about himself on video . As far as saying the exercises dont work, in my case I would disagree with you. I maybe one in a hundred that stuck with it and its worked for me, but that is why there are endless exercise methods out there to choose from . You do what is best for you and in my own case I have lost more weight and never been as strong as I am now with body weight exercises and I believe it was the book combat conditioning that paved that way for me, so I will stick with what works for me.  I was only sharing an idea on line about improving physcal fitness if people take what I mentioned and it benifits them then all the power too them. I would be most intrested in you work out program do you have any refferences that I can explore and expand on to improve myself. Thanks for your time.


----------



## FutureQYR

I know that I am CLEARLY not the first person on this thread to ask this question, but I need a no b.s physical assesment from either a member of the CF, or someone of significant experience. I have to go for my physical assesment in March or April. I know the requirements but I still want to strive to excell. I can currently do about 40 standard CF pushups, and situps I can pretty much do to no end. But running. I haven't really ran for about 4 months, and in that time, pretty much everything I had worked to accomplish dissapeared. I was able to run 2.4km in about 9:10 and 5km in 23 (flat land), but know I think I could probably only run 2.4 in 11-12 with a struggle. I know I need to get back into shape for running, but i'm curious how well I'm doing in the other aspects of assesment, and if someone could tell me a simple rough program that I could follow it would be highly appreciated.  ushup:


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## George Wallace

[EDITTED to create new Topic]

This will give others the chance to compare their Training and results.


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## combat_clarke

Here is a training program that I have been doing for the last couple of weeks, I think this will help anyone get in shape for basic. All you need is a Pull up bar , weights or resistance tubing and about an hour a day some days an hour and a half of time out of your day. First of all you should download the following programs P90X Chest and Back- This has enough push up and pull up variations to help you gain some strength, P90X Ab Ripper X- this will blast your abs and the basic sit up will be as easy as walking, P90X Plyometrics- this will help you run faster jump higher and you will kick the pants off of anyone else who is not using it.

Here is the program. I run 5 Times a week alternating a 5K run takes about a half an hour and step running the next day for half an hour.

I split Ab Ripper X and Chest and Back alternating them dont do either two days in a row give your body time to recover.

Once a Week do Plyometrics. "no more then twice a week if I am feeling very good I will put an extra one in on the weekend".

so here is what a typical week looks like I also mix it up every week just do what you can, do your best and forget the rest. Remember to stretch before and after and for the shin split masters like me walk on the balls of your feet for a couple of minutes before and after you run or do plyometrics you will thank your legs later for doing this....

Mon- 5K run, Ab ripper X
Tuesday- Step Running, Chest and Back
Wednesday- Plyometrics, Ab Ripper X
Thursday- 5K run, Chest and Back
Friday- Step Running, Ab ripper X
Saturday- 5K run, Chest and Back
Sunday-  Very light jog and lots of stretching


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## pte.allen

theres two ways you could run. 1. is taught by my brother Capt. XXXX XXXX who went to RMC, he said to take a breath in on the left foot count 1-2-1-2-3 breathe out on the 3rd. If you find your hyperventilating, then dont do it. As someone else thinks this does not work. I have tried it, I did 2.5 kilometers in 10 minutes. Or the other thing you could do is run for a minute stop do that in one week only run for a minute, then the next week 2 minutes, keep increasing the minutes in each week. A cross country runner trainer taught me that. Perhaps it'll work maybe not, good luck though in the physical. its not hard. 

         -Pte.Allen- 

Name removed by Mod


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Are you sure your Brother is OK with you posting his name in public?


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## Nfld Sapper

Maybe you should remove the name Bruce? until you get an answer.


----------



## tyciol

RebornXmetalhead said:
			
		

> What happened to the good ol pushups? Are they not good anymore?
> I was always told that pushups build many parts at once (arms, back, shoulders, abs, chest..)
> I was also told that working out on machines is bad for muscle developement because you grow out of proportion.. whereas free weights is better.


Pushups do. Main focus is on triceps (back of upper arm), and the pectorals (chest)/anterior deltoid (front shoulder). They are the prime movers. With a wide grip, the chest works more, with a narrow grip, the anterior deltoid works more. I think... Anyway the abs and hip flexors work to brace the torso and maintain a straight line. It's an isometric hold for them, they do not go through any range of motion with proper form. I have heard of it strengthening the back, but I don't really understand how that works.

Machines are not bad for muscle development, they work well at developing muscles. 'Proportion' is relative. Different free weight movements will create different proportions of muscles as well. Someone who does only chinups will look quite different from someone doing only squats. Machines tend to be very stable, so that people do not hurt themself. The problem, and why free weight and bodyweight movements are irreplacable, is that instability is good because you develope the ability to use other muscles as stabilizers. The ability to stabilize yourself is important in the real world, so the strength is more useable. If you build great strength on a machine, you may hurt yourself attempting to use all of it in real situation if you cannot control it with stabilization.



			
				Freight said:
			
		

> Doing too many situps can cause the overdevelopment of the hip flexor and can cause back problems.


Is overdevelopment a relative thing? If people who build strong/large hip flexor muscles also do a lot of work for the opposite muscles (hip extensors) like the glutes and hamstrings, could this help to balance out the risks and lessen the risk of back problems? So if one were to say, do squats and deadlifting, perhaps it would lessen the risk of back problems associated with excessive situps in some? Hip flexors are very good muscles for people who like to do front kicks, for example, so it can be hard to limit their strength.



			
				Nat. Cap. Girl said:
			
		

> is it not also true though that if you don't have strong enough abs that you can get back problems from that as well?


Situps focus more on the hip flexors, the abs only work statically (isometrics) to stabilize the core. Crunches work the abs as a prime mover, the hip flexors only contract isometrically and to a lesser degree. The lower back does not leave the ground. They are not associated with as many problems as situps get blamed with.



			
				midgetcop said:
			
		

> Squats are a great overall exercise that will not only work all your leg muscles at once, but will also build strength in your back, abs, and hip flexors.


Do you mean hip extensors? I know that for going deeper in the squat people often consciously engage their hip flexors to 'pull them in' but that's more of a nerve trick to make some of the short hip extensor fibres relax so that other fibres which are long enough to engage in the stretch can take the load. I don't think they're actually stressed much, not any more than the triceps would be in a biceps curl anyway. Abs are used very much when the torso is upright to avoid letting the weight hyperextend the back ,as well as contracting isometrically with the back muscles to stabilize the spine. It is especially the deeper muscles rather than the superficial ones that work to do this. For people who bend forward on squats and it's more like a good morning or deadlift, I don't think the abs work as hard though, since the lower back muscles take so much more of the load.



			
				Combat_Engineer_Clarke said:
			
		

> Hopefully this will help with your Strength Conditioning. Well it helped with mine.  I found a book called Combat Conditioning my Matt Furey. Pretty much for the first month you have three exercises. Hindu Squats, Hindu Push Ups and Back Bridging.


They're interesting movements, I've tried the system. Pushups are still better training for pushups than hindu pushups though. You need to be able to maintain the plank (yoga term) position to keep your core stiff during pushups, which requires strong abs and hip flexors. Hindu pushups have the hips moving throughout it, and even the back extends (hyperextends?) at the bottom. It also only works the chest and triceps eccentrically. To push off the ground, you need concentric strength. He keeps those as a cardio/endurance exercise, which I guess is okay, but swimming's probably easier on the shoulders. Backbridging is fun but doesn't really transfer to any of these military prep exercises discussed. I really admire Matt's focus on hill/wind sprints, those are a great exercise. Hindu squats help develope ankle and foot strength, and do load the quads more, but normal squats (heel on ground) are better because they are safer for when you weight lift, you use more posterior chain, and you get to learn how to dorsiflex the ankle better. Variety's probably the key, he introduces stuff people forget about so that's valuable, though maybe not a quarter grand valuable as it gets marketed for.



			
				Combat_Engineer_Clarke said:
			
		

> Here is a training program that I have been doing for the last couple of weeks, I think this will help anyone get in shape for basic. All you need is a Pull up bar , weights or resistance tubing and about an hour a day some days an hour and a half of time out of your day. First of all you should download the following programs P90X Chest and Back- This has enough push up and pull up variations to help you gain some strength, P90X Ab Ripper X- this will blast your abs and the basic sit up will be as easy as walking, P90X Plyometrics- this will help you run faster jump higher and you will kick the pants off of anyone else who is not using it.


The P90X system is marketed by the 'Beach Body' corporation which also produces 'Hip Hop Abs' and 'Turbo Jam'. It's not exactly in the best company, but it is certainly the best I've seen from them of the three. Varying exercises does work and is a smart idea, but not for the reasons of 'muscle confusion' theory that are marketed. That is oversimplifying it. But understanding it isn't necessary for it to work I guess, so long as people are actually measurably progressing and not getting stuck in a rut trying to confuse themselves. The inclusion of the chinning bar is solid. Haven't heard of the 'ab ribber' thing, must be new. I don't really like the name, sounds like it might have some spot reduction stuff in it. Furey used to say stuff like that too, it's not a nice myth to propogate. If it focuses on building the ab muscles as half the battle that's fine though.


----------



## Heebs

Greetings, I am new around this website.  Does anyone know what level on the beep test I have to get to at Basic Officer training?  As well, Does anyone know what standards one must reach physically to avoid the so called "fat platoon"?  I'm not a great runner myself.


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## Nfld Sapper

Heebs said:
			
		

> Greetings, I am new around this website.  Does anyone know what level on the beep test I have to get to at Basic Officer training?  As well, Does anyone know what standards one must reach physically to avoid the so called "fat platoon"?  I'm not a great runner myself.



The minimum, I say again, the minimum is to get to level 6 on the 20 MSR for anyone getting into the CF. Strive for more.


----------



## George Wallace

Heebs said:
			
		

> Greetings, I am new around this website.  Does anyone know what level on the beep test I have to get to at Basic Officer training?  As well, Does anyone know what standards one must reach physically to avoid the so called "fat platoon"?  I'm not a great runner myself.



You should have received the PT requirements when you visited the CFRC.  If not in the package they gave you, then try a SEARCH on this site.  I know the standards are posted including links to the CF site.


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## Bo

Depends on your exact goals.

You're above average in all fitness categories so passing the test is no problem. However, if you want to really excel at ONLY the fitness criteria judged by the CF, then practice pushups, situps, beep tests (that's what you get assessed on I believe), and grip strength.

As for a routine to get better at those particular exercises, well, try doing 3 beep tests per week on non-consecutive days and the pushups, situps, and grip work on the other days. 3 sets of each exercise to failure should do the trick.


Now, if you want to improve your TOTAL fitness as well as doing well on this test, then look no further than www.crossfit.com. It is an excellent workout regimine for complete fitness (strength, speed, power, endurance, flexibility, agility, etc.)


Good luck


----------



## B0nes

What are your opinions on this routine. 

Start off jogging for 20 mins and then rowing 20 mins, maintaning a 70-90% pulse rate. move onto abs and then into weight lifting..

The cardio comes first to build endurance and remove extra fat. Abs comes second to give myself a break but not wasting time while keeping my pulse rate up. Lasly comes the weight lifting so that I'm forced to work harder at the same weight. Should increase mental toughness and muscle endurance during times of exhaustion.


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## Col.Steiner

B0nes said:
			
		

> What are your opinions on this routine.
> 
> Start off jogging for 20 mins and then rowing 20 mins, maintaning a 70-90% pulse rate. move onto abs and then into weight lifting..
> 
> The cardio comes first to build endurance and remove extra fat. Abs comes second to give myself a break but not wasting time while keeping my pulse rate up. Lasly comes the weight lifting so that I'm forced to work harder at the same weight. Should increase mental toughness and muscle endurance during times of exhaustion.



Sounds solid to me! Find out at which point cardio starts actually burning muscle and not fat, which would definitely not be good. I think your well within safety with 40 minutes. Don't forget to rest properly between sets too, which is very important. Remember that when you go through the basic training phase you will lose a lot of weight and your muscle will decrease as well. Good muscle training before this is a great idea because I found you do not get many opportunities to lift weights nor would you want to if you could as your so goddamn exhausted anyways.


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## NSfirefighter

alright now im a total weakling jus to get that out of the way but im getting there (i work out at least once a day)

im not asking to be spoonfed im just looking for a cf members advice as i no longer have any cf members in my family 

so heres the info

im 17 i weigh about 175 im not chubby or nothing im rather skinny actually

i can do about 17 or 16 cf standard pushups on a good day but then my hands and arms begin to shake and i feel like im going to collapse. Not pass out just like drop

i can do the 19 situps in about one minute i havent tried actually timing it yet but the last one is rather difficult though

i havent tried chin ups yet

running i cant improve on but at a fairly normal jog rate i can only go for about 15 minutes and im out of breath (i know that doesent give you guys an idea of how fast im running but i cant think of any other way to describe it )

im in very poor shape i know

my questions are

is there anyway i can stop the shakes when i do pushups? i try every day but i can never get past 17

is there any very basic tips i should know?

my goal is reserves be ready by this summer at least

any advice is welcome and if you must flame please be gentle

thanks


----------



## Cloud Cover

I'm looking for a pdf copy of the authentic RCAF 5BX fitness plan- I'm finding the internet has lots of knock offs, but not the real deal. Does anyone have a copy or a link to this plan?

Cheers


----------



## The_Falcon

NSfirefighter said:
			
		

> alright now im a total weakling jus to get that out of the way but im getting there (i work out at least once a day)
> 
> im not asking to be spoonfed im just looking for a cf members advice as i no longer have any cf members in my family
> 
> so heres the info
> 
> im 17 i weigh about 175 im not chubby or nothing im rather skinny actually
> 
> i can do about 17 or 16 cf standard pushups on a good day but then my hands and arms begin to shake and i feel like im going to collapse. Not pass out just like drop
> 
> i can do the 19 situps in about one minute i havent tried actually timing it yet but the last one is rather difficult though
> 
> i havent tried chin ups yet
> 
> running i cant improve on but at a fairly normal jog rate i can only go for about 15 minutes and im out of breath (i know that doesent give you guys an idea of how fast im running but i cant think of any other way to describe it )
> 
> im in very poor shape i know
> 
> my questions are
> 
> is there anyway i can stop the shakes when i do pushups? i try every day but i can never get past 17
> 
> is there any very basic tips i should know?
> 
> my goal is reserves be ready by this summer at least
> 
> any advice is welcome and if you must flame please be gentle
> 
> thanks



First things first, improve your grammar.  Second what is your diet like?  If you're eating crap, then your body will respond accordingly.  Diet has a HUGE impact on your fitness levels.  As for your PT search the multitude of threads here lots of info and advice on how to create programs, go to www.crossfit.com or google the Army Fitness Manual.   To get you started:  to increase your push ups, do variations (ie triceps, wide, on a medicine ball, plyos etc.)  use different set/rep combos (ie pyramiding or that thread on pathway to 50).   Sit-ups again variety is your friend (reverse, twisting, with wieghts etc.) and don't forget to work your lower back as well or you get imbalanced.  Chin-ups now is as good a time as any to start.  Running you CAN improve, everyone can always improve something.  If you are out of breath after 15 minutes you either a) have medical issues, or more likely b)you are running to damn fast.  Pick a distance, say 5km, now go out and try and run that at a pace that won't leave you winded by the end.  Record your time, and repeat, trying to GRADUALLY increase your speed.  Thats just keeping things simple.  There is more advanced stuff you can do, once you get a grip on the basic stuff.


----------



## NSfirefighter

sorry about the grammer mate

and thanks for the advice


----------



## RTaylor

Ive gone from having a spare tire to having a spare bicycle tire in the past few months. My PT isn't what I'd like it to be, but circumstances being what they are, I think Ive done well in dropping 20 or so pounds.

I've also more than quadrupled my upper body strength, from doing 3-5 pushups and it hurting bad (I had repetitive stress issues that were rooted in my shoulders, thought that doing nothing would help keep the pain at bay). After near 2 years of doing nothing upper-body wise, I said screw the pain and went all out, well, started a personal regime. The pain is gone, has never returned, and I can now nearly get all my pushups off that I need (19) and want to get more in.

Cardio is my bane right now, I just can not get enough in daily or even weekly. I get out walking for 20 minutes a day while at work and try to get out when I'm home with my son as often as I can, but it's never a real solid workout (I live in dogpatch, and there's 0 decent areas to run / jog / etc, and the woods are swampy muck at the moment). Im not in horrid shape, but no where near where I used to be which is a shame. Winter hits people in my area hard in regards to exercise 

The only thing you can do is try, and keep working on it 1 day at a time, and before you know it you'll look back and say "Wow, I've come a long way!".


----------



## Steve_Rogers

Let's see! I can run 1.6 kilometers in about 5 or 6 minutes at my fastest. I can do 50 push ups perfectly fine, and up to 100 if I pushed myself, and am as fit and healthy as an ox! I should ace everything here, commandos!


----------



## OldSolduer

Here's my schtick:
As a 50 year old reserve infantryman, I have to do PT just to keep up wtih the young ones.
I walk....lots.....stamina for 13 km BFT
Weights/resistance training
Some cardio, but not to be overdone.
Pushups....only if I have to
Situps..rarely but I do have an abdominal routine.
I completed 13 km in 2 hours 5 minutes last fall.


----------



## medaid

Steve_Rogers said:
			
		

> Let's see! I can run 1.6 kilometers in about 5 or 6 minutes at my fastest. I can do 50 push ups perfectly fine, and up to 100 if I pushed myself, and am as fit and healthy as an ox! I should ace everything here, commandos!



WHO the frack are you?!


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

And Steve so you can't say you have not been warned. Read the follwoing:

Army.ca Admin Stuff:

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Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
·	Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977 
·	Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)
Army.ca wiki pages 
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To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


----------



## AirCanuck

RTaylor said:
			
		

> Ive gone from having a spare tire to having a spare bicycle tire in the past few months. My PT isn't what I'd like it to be, but circumstances being what they are, I think Ive done well in dropping 20 or so pounds.
> 
> I've also more than quadrupled my upper body strength, from doing 3-5 pushups and it hurting bad (I had repetitive stress issues that were rooted in my shoulders, thought that doing nothing would help keep the pain at bay). After near 2 years of doing nothing upper-body wise, I said screw the pain and went all out, well, started a personal regime. The pain is gone, has never returned, and I can now nearly get all my pushups off that I need (19) and want to get more in.
> 
> Cardio is my bane right now, I just can not get enough in daily or even weekly. I get out walking for 20 minutes a day while at work and try to get out when I'm home with my son as often as I can, but it's never a real solid workout (I live in dogpatch, and there's 0 decent areas to run / jog / etc, and the woods are swampy muck at the moment). Im not in horrid shape, but no where near where I used to be which is a shame. Winter hits people in my area hard in regards to exercise
> 
> The only thing you can do is try, and keep working on it 1 day at a time, and before you know it you'll look back and say "Wow, I've come a long way!".



Hey there
speaking as someone who frequently gets beat down by old man winter;
It is definitely hard keeping in shape during the winter.  I live in London Ontario which is in an area known as the snow belt.  The key is to use indoor cardio as well as outdoor.  Walks are good - but you should try to go to a gym maybe 3 times a week.  If running is hard on your joints, use the elliptical, which has no impact.  Really the key is to get into a routine - the hard part isn't really sticking with it, I find, it's starting it up.  I personally have not great knees, so I use the elliptical generally.
cheers


----------



## CBshadow

I have an extraordinarily hard time gaining weight, I eat roughly six pounds of food during one normal dinner sitting, except my metabolism is  extremely fast.  I work out but don't seem to gain all that much weight if any do you guys have any tips for someone in my situation... and no i don't have tapeworms?


----------



## Blackadder1916

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> I'm looking for a pdf copy of the authentic RCAF 5BX fitness plan- I'm finding the internet has lots of knock offs, but not the real deal. Does anyone have a copy or a link to this plan?



Try this site http://www.gettingfitagain.com/5bx.php


----------



## davidsonr_91

I can run 1.5 miles on treadmill in 11 min 6 sec but went out to run  1.5 outside not on a treadmill and didn't make it very far.  What can i do to change this?  I am guessing it's like this because on the treadmill it sets my pace but when i go run outside i give it my all to go the 1.5 miles. Any advice is appreciated, i have my medical 2 april 21 then once i get through that it's my fitness test for the MP res.


----------



## CBshadow

Will.......thats all I ever use when I'm running just keep going and run as fast as you can while not exerting all your energy at once   now if your having trouble running off the treadmill I would suggest maybe finding a friend to run with (that's relatively fast), a little competition goes a long way.  (which is why you should be fine when they're doing testing  because most likely it won't just be you running) 

best of luck to you


----------



## davidsonr_91

Thanks for the reply shadow, i understand what you mean but is running on the treadmill a good means of building my cardio or just impractical and i should be running outside, i seem to do better on the treadmill that is all.


----------



## George Wallace

davidsonr_91 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply shadow, i understand what you mean but is running on the treadmill a good means of building my cardio or just impractical and i should be running outside, i seem to do better on the treadmill that is all.



No.

If you take some time to read the whole topic, as well as the whole of other topics on Physical Fitness/Training and Running, you will get some better information from some very informed people who have answered these questions in detail a long time ago.


----------



## AD

Hey everyone,

I'm scheduled for BOTP at the start of May, and I have a few questions on how I can improve my physical training.
Currently I'm running 5 days a week (5km) and working out at the gym 2-3 times per week. There I do 30mins on the ergometer and then hit the free weights for about 45 mins. After everything I do some abs and hit the road. I feel as though I'm in pretty good shape.
However, and this was even a problem during IAP, I have trouble with my breathing and heart rate. I was prescribed a puffer while on IAP, but rarely use it now...may have been the poor ventilation in the MEGA. The biggest problem (and I think my breathing will improve once this issue is resolved) is my disgustingly high heart rate.  Resting I'm usually at about 70-80bpm...if I'm nervous it could be as high as 100 sometimes. You can imagine that when I work out my heart rate sky rockets to over 150. High heart rate has been pretty normal to me all my life, however I think it's conflicting with my ability to improve my physical fitness. 
I have never experienced chest pains or anything like that, just breathing difficulties.

Any suggestions? Some heart conditioning techniques would really be appreciated.
Thanks everyone!
Allie


----------



## George Wallace

Read this Topic.


----------



## Lumber

Allie said:
			
		

> Resting I'm usually at about 70-80bpm...if I'm nervous it could be as high as 100 sometimes. You can imagine that when I work out my heart rate sky rockets to over 150.



 70-80bpm resting and 150bpm during activity are not "disgustingly high" at all. Your target heart rate for the kind of fitness training you will be doing is somewhere between 140-160bpm.


----------



## AD

Alright so maybe "disgustingly" was the wrong choice of adjectives. 
If it's really not that bad then I'm concerning myself for nothing, and I will continue with my workout regiment, maybe adding some swimming to improve cardio. 
Thanks for your response!
Happy PTing everyone!


----------



## KMJAB

WHEN are you checking your resting heart rate? Check it first thing in the am, before getting up. It does not sound like you have a serious problem, but it would help to start with the right set of measurements. Checking your resting heart rate when nervous is NOT checking your resting heart rate. After running, check your rate. Then check it again after 1 min and 2 minutes.

Once you have these numbers,, then you can start asking whether your heart is crazy (so crazy - oops, going off on a sixties rock and roll tangent). 

Read the thread and pay attention to VO2 posts. You might also want to add yoga. Some meditative breathing exercises might be a good addition.

Hijack:

This is also the first I heard of folks doing BOTP at start of May, I thought IAP started in May and BOTP in July, or is there an extra BOTP for May - June?


----------



## Lumber

KMJAB said:
			
		

> Hijack:
> 
> This is also the first I heard of folks doing BOTP at start of May, I thought IAP started in May and BOTP in July, or is there an extra BOTP for May - June?



Last Year BOTP started in MAY because RMC and Civi-U had just finished School. IAP started in July because highschool had just finished.


----------



## AD

I check my heart rate before I start stretching for my run, and immediately after cool down. I also randomly check when I'm sitting around watching TV haha, and it's still around 80. Once again this is normal to me, but the PSP staff didn't seem to think it was very peachy.
The VO2 threads on here are every helpful, I'm just curious since I've been steadily working out (interval training, circuit training, etc) and showing little VO2 improvement.
I'll give the yoga a go, thanks!

I'm not overly concerned since I don't get chest pains, and don't hyperventaliate (anymore). Army.ca has helped me out before, and I thought I'd pose my questions in any case. Thanks again

Reply to your Hijack: I'm scheduled for BOTP for 12 MAY to 27 JUN. There are other courses starting later in the summer. There are 2 serials running on the May 12 date.


----------



## RiverDriver

If you are looking to build upper-body strength, or increase your failing point for push-ups and chin-ups, try a pyramid work out. It worked for me. Here's the best description of a pyramid workout that I've found: http://www.military.com/military-fitness/fitness-test-prep/pt-pyramid


----------



## chris the merc

If you fail RFT, would your release series be 5(d)?


----------



## warren_t

RiverDriver-thank you for the Fitness link-specifically the Pyramid. I enjoy the change or muscle confusion workouts. 

I have gone through P90X and continue to do so. It is an excellent program. Plyometrics, Yoga, Core Synergistics, Stretching, Abs and the Specific Muscle Group exercises. CV is the core to my weight maitenance. The Stair climber (machine looks like a reverse escalator), treadmills, etc. Lots of variety to achieve the cummulative CV fitness result. Diet determines my abd tone (six pack  or not). Canned food-including sauces etc minimal, tuna, salmon ok. For me anything with high sodium is a no no, fresh food-the optimum. Fast food-1x per week. I still cheat diet wise- a slice of pizza, or a TH donut. Try not to eat at bedtime, I have protein only.
Recovery drinks-also critical to response to training. During and after.
Thanks for all these tips.


----------



## Delta

gryphon664 said:
			
		

> My question is, i can do everything, push ups, sit ups, but i can‘t run... i don‘t know why.. i get winded very easily.. any suggestions on how to increase my running?


definitely in through the nose, out through the mouth; when inhaling, imagine you are trying to pop your lungs, when exhaling, just blast all the air out ASAP through the mouth

another thing that really helped me out was using treadmill's heart rate monitor, the treadmill  at which will adjust the intensity to keep your heart rate in a specific zone


----------



## EuroCanuck

Hello everyone, I wish to know what's the ideal rest period in between sets. Is it different from pushups/situps (high reps) and things like dips/pullups (low reps). 
I'm a good runner (2.4km under 9 minutes) but I am, and always have been terrible at pushups. I can hardly do 20 even after training for the past few months.. I usually rest about 1 minute in between sets (5) which results in about 10 pushups. Should I increase rest so I can do my max (20) every set?


----------



## Narcisse

Tell your head that you want to do 50 push-ups and post your result here again. It's the best thing to do, play with the mental, the only thing in life that stop an human !


----------



## Radcliffe

NSfirefighter said:
			
		

> sorry about the grammer mate
> 
> and thanks for the advice



I'd stay away from crossfit for now. Crossfit is for people who already have a good level of fitness. You can't do 20 pushups so you really shouldn't be doing king lifts or 400 meter weighted runs, you're just going to hurt yourself and see no improvement in your fitness.



> Let's see! I can run 1.6 kilometers in about 5 or 6 minutes at my fastest. I can do 50 push ups perfectly fine, and up to 100 if I pushed myself, and am as fit and healthy as an ox! I should ace everything here, commandos!



Also 1.6k in 5-6 minutes isn't INSANELY fast. I do 8k in 31 minutes. 5 in 19:30. 2.4 in 8. That's very impressive for pushups though if you can actually do 100 proper military pushups. Good job.


----------



## The_Falcon

tuyop said:
			
		

> I'd stay away from crossfit for now. Crossfit is for people who already have a good level of fitness. You can't do 20 pushups so you really shouldn't be doing king lifts or 400 meter weighted runs, you're just going to hurt yourself and see no improvement in your fitness.
> 
> Also 1.6k in 5-6 minutes isn't INSANELY fast. I do 8k in 31 minutes. 5 in 19:30. 2.4 in 8. That's very impressive for pushups though if you can actually do 100 proper military pushups. Good job.



And obviously you don't have any idea what you are talking about wrt crossfit.  Crossfit is for anyone and everyone, all the workouts can be scaled down to accomodate people at all fitness levels (that doesn't mean necessarily making the workouts "easier" per se. Example, substituting push ups from the knees or wall for regular pushups, jumping pullups/negatives for regular pushups, using lower weights etc).  Reading the FAQ/Getting Started section of the mainsite, will tell you that right off the bat.


----------



## kyfho1

Right now I can do about 30 pushups, Also I can run a mile in 10 minutes(i realize this isnt good) but I havent tried to push myself on the running yet so I am working on that.
I have spent hours upon hours looking up threads on here and other websites trying to find the perfect way to set up a work out schedule for myself to get the best results possible over a 2 month stretch.
I created a work out regime for the following two months and it includes a 60 min fast walk on my treadmill monday through friday in the mornings. Also tuesday and thursday nights another 60 min fast walk.  And on mon/wed/fri nights a 30 minute HIIT (high intensity interval training) which is 1 minute walk 1 minute jog 1 minute run 1 minute sprint, then repeated until i get over 30 minutes and a 5 minute cool down.

Now on monday wednesday friday I have included 2x sets of pushups and also a 5 minute ab workout.
Tuesday thursday, squats and leg excercises.

I am confident this routine will get me where I need to be only I am worried I might be pushing myself too hard on the treadmill.  So far I havent had any problems I do proper stretching before every walk or run, but I would like some peoples opinions on whether this is a little too hard and maybe what I could do to give me more results and less risk of injury.


One other question I have is that I have been trying this 5 minute ab exercise I found in another thread, I will post it below.. but anyways, after I complete this workout, the couple days after my hips HURT real bad.
I realize I have to work out the hip flexors and lower back at the same time I work out my abs or this could result in injury aswell.  Is there any exercises anybody knows of that could help me with this? I do not live near a gym so anything that could be performed at home would be valuable.  

Thanks again and here is the 5 minute abs exercise I was talking about..

The point of this is to do each excercise for 1 minute, and then switch to the next right away, thus giving yourself a full 5 minute ab workout.

Ex 1.  Lie with your back on the floor, straighten your legs, and begin lifting them about a foot to a foot and a half off the ground, almost like your walking but with your back on the ground.  Don't let your feet touch the ground, they should come as far down as possible without touching the ground.  As one foot goes down, the other shoudl be going up.  Do that for one minute.

Ex 2.  Put your legs straight into the air, and begin lifting your butt off the ground. It'll feel uncomfortable at first but you'll get used to it.  This works your high abs.  Make sure not to put your hans under your hips for support.  Do that for one minute.

Ex 3. Crunches.  Yup, just do crunches for one minute.  NOT SIT UPS....crunches.

Ex 4. Straighten both legs out, keeping them off the ground and together.  Bring them into your chest, or as far into your body as you can, and then straighten them out again.  Like excercise 1, make sure not to let your feet touch the ground, and keep them straight.  Do for one minute.

Ex. 5.  Straighten your legs up into the air again , but this time bring them down to one side of your body, like your twisting yourself on the way down almost.  Then to the other side, and back and forth you go.  Do for one minute.

Now feel the burn.  I normally try to do one set using 40 second intervals, and a second one doing 30 seconds intervals.  Trust me, you WILL feel the burn.


----------



## snoman317

Hey,
I've been doing 13km ruck marches for the last few weekends. After each one, my left hip flexor became sore the next day, the first time it was quite painful. I've taken to ensuring I stretch my flexors to help this, but I was wondering if you guys have suggestions as to why the left muscle becomes sore but not my right muscle. Improper adjustment of the ruck? or maybe it's something about the way I walk? or perhaps my left flexor is just a lot weaker than my right.

If anyone has had similar experience I would appreciate some help. thanks.


----------



## daftandbarmy

snoman317 said:
			
		

> Hey,
> I've been doing 13km ruck marches for the last few weekends. After each one, my left hip flexor became sore the next day, the first time it was quite painful. I've taken to ensuring I stretch my flexors to help this, but I was wondering if you guys have suggestions as to why the left muscle becomes sore but not my right muscle. Improper adjustment of the ruck? or maybe it's something about the way I walk? or perhaps my left flexor is just a lot weaker than my right.
> 
> If anyone has had similar experience I would appreciate some help. thanks.



I had the same problem after I ran my last marathon and found out that I had flat feet (funny that, after only 30 years in the infantry). You might want to get cheked out by a place that makes orthotics, just in case. I wished I done that about 15 years before I found out that I had a 'mechanical' issue.


----------



## punkd

snoman317 said:
			
		

> Hey,
> I've been doing 13km ruck marches for the last few weekends. After each one, my left hip flexor became sore the next day, the first time it was quite painful. I've taken to ensuring I stretch my flexors to help this, but I was wondering if you guys have suggestions as to why the left muscle becomes sore but not my right muscle. Improper adjustment of the ruck? or maybe it's something about the way I walk? or perhaps my left flexor is just a lot weaker than my right.
> 
> If anyone has had similar experience I would appreciate some help. thanks.



Also if you have done a fair bit of rucking in the boots you are wearing, check the soles they should tell you something. See if the left is worn more than the right one. You might have a tendency to use your left side to bear more of the weight.


----------



## snoman317

thanks guys. I should also mention that I haven't been using the waist-strap... next time I go I'm gonna try it out.


----------



## forza_milan

snoman317 said:
			
		

> Hey,
> I've been doing 13km ruck marches for the last few weekends. After each one, my left hip flexor became sore the next day, the first time it was quite painful. I've taken to ensuring I stretch my flexors to help this, but I was wondering if you guys have suggestions as to why the left muscle becomes sore but not my right muscle. Improper adjustment of the ruck? or maybe it's something about the way I walk? or perhaps my left flexor is just a lot weaker than my right.
> 
> If anyone has had similar experience I would appreciate some help. thanks.



I posted something related to this topic but in a thread people wouldn't look in because it had little to do with PT. 



			
				forza_milan said:
			
		

> 1. The best running shoe for you: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319--4615-0,00.html
> 
> 2. Wet test and what shoe is right for you: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-326-7152-0,00.html
> 
> 3. Leveling with flat feet: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-326-532-0,00.html
> 
> 4. Videos on over-pronation, under-pronation and normal pronation



Perhaps putting this here will help people looking for some resources


----------



## EuroCanuck

What do you guys think about doing Stew Smith's Seal Workout (http://www.trulyhuge.com/Navy_Seal_Workout.htm) OR something similar, where you only do pushups, situps, pullups, and running (little to no swimming for me at the moment..)?
Would my fitness be 'unbalanced', or weak in lots of other important fitness areas?
For example, should I still go to the gym and do extra leg/shoulder/bicep work in addition, or are pushups, situps, pullups, and lots of running plenty?

Oh, and to respond to my last post in this thread about a month ago, increased pushups by 5 (finally), woot!


----------



## The_Falcon

EuroCanuck said:
			
		

> What do you guys think about doing Stew Smith's Seal Workout (http://www.trulyhuge.com/Navy_Seal_Workout.htm) OR something similar, where you only do pushups, situps, pullups, and running (little to no swimming for me at the moment..)?
> Would my fitness be 'unbalanced', or weak in lots of other important fitness areas?
> For example, should I still go to the gym and do extra leg/shoulder/bicep work in addition, or are pushups, situps, pullups, and lots of running plenty?
> 
> Oh, and to respond to my last post in this thread about a month ago, increased pushups by 5 (finally), woot!



That program is ok, his book 12 weeks to BUD/S is better (it includes leg/lower body work).  With the amount of pushups/pullups, in either program (more in the book), if you are doing it correctly you will be to tired to even contemplate "extra", and when you are doing 100+ pull ups, 200+ pushups in single workouts, your shoulders/chests/biceps/triceps, will be getting enough work.  If you want a free balanced program, go crossfit.


----------



## Infanteer

EuroCanuck said:
			
		

> What do you guys think about doing Stew Smith's Seal Workout (http://www.trulyhuge.com/Navy_Seal_Workout.htm) OR something similar, where you only do pushups, situps, pullups, and running (little to no swimming for me at the moment..)?



The 12 Weeks to BUDS workout is great and targets exercises that are seen as the measure of a military man, but doing the same thing everyday demands alot of motivation and I would worry about some degree of "routinization" or whatever that muscle-confusion concept is.

As Hachet says, Crossfit is a simple way to get a demanding workout through something a little different all the time.  Mix it up.


----------



## punkd

If you find your not getting a good enough workout from crossfit's main site WOD's try this one.

http://www.navyseals.com/crossfit-workout-day

Still crossfit, but they mix in alot more cardio and the workouts are alot more intense.


----------



## rod_barolo

I am in the process of applying but would still like to add what may be some valuable advice since I deeply appreciate both the advice and the service to our country that you guys have given.

If you need to seriously improve your running then back off on the muscle stuff.  Hard running increases hormones (cortisol I think) that are opposite to testosterone.  If you are on a treadmill then you need to have it at about 3% grade to be similar to flat on a track.  GET GOOD SHOES.  Do not buy the ones on sale at Walmart.  Go to the running room or similar store and talk to a sales person.  There are racing shoes, shoes more for 10 km racing and shoes more for training.  These sales people can also set you up with a program - don't just do the same distance and the same pace.  Get an MP3 player and set the music up for your programs.  Even though I may have done it a 1000 times, poring it on and going hard core to the finale of Beethoven's 9th gets remarkably close to feelin like an ( you know what).  If you can do it then breaking up your workout into two sesssions is a good idea.  Once you exercise it take a while for your metabolism to return to the baseline so you actually can get a better fat burn with two 35 minutes sessions as opposed to one 70.  Also be sure to document and play around as what works for one person is not so good for another.  Like for me my morning times are way crappier than after work .  Well ,at least the rare times I do mornings - guess that will have to change.

Believe it or not eating five time a day can help a lot.   Of course I am talking small portions.  It not only reduces stomach size but leads to better blood sugar and insulin levels etc. which decreases fat storage. Think plain oatmeal, tuna in water, egg whites ( love that egg white stuff in the store in the pint containers-  no cracking required.  Protein bars are very convenient. I highly recommend Danone yogurt as it gets as close to ice cream.  But do have a treat once a week or so.  Dessert at a coffee shop or restaurant may be more expensive but there will be nothing in the fridge to tempt you.  Speaking of the fridge put something really big on it or really close to it.  Pictures of CF members or the Canadian flag.  I have never ever heard of someone over motivating themselves.  This is very much a mind game.

If you need to get your pushups higher then concentrate on them.  Heavy bench pressing will help for sure but since the stabilizer muscles are different, then it is better to focus on push ups.  Rest times should be 90 sec to 150 sec between sets.  The best rep range is between 8 to 12 for pumping iron for what we need to do.  Higher reps are great for defining muscles - so if want to model Calvin Klines undies then go 15 to 20ish and if you want to bench 425 for one rep then go 2 to 8 range, and if you want to go army then 8 to 12 is the number for pumping iron work.  Free weights are better for what we want as they also require stablizer mucles more. I highly recommend a personal trainer. Explaining how you should group body parts together and which ones would make this a really really long post. Try several trainers for one or two times.  The chemistry between you is likely the most important thing.  If you can not afford one then go to the gym and tell them so.  Tell them why you want to work out hard.  I am sure that you will have no problem in getting volunteers if they have even a fraction of the respect I have for the CF. Going to the gym and mindlessly pumping out reps is not that productive.  Intensity is everything!!!!!!!!!  If you do not have a mind game going while lifting then you NEED TO GET ONE.  Yeah be aggressive solider. Come on - strangle the livin sh!t out of that Taliban motherfu**er. Get the idea. It will help a lot.  Getting down to a very low body fat percentage will help a lot especially in pullups.

Supplemments can be a great help.  Besides a general multivitamin, creatine, nitric oxide and protein powder work for sure.  If you are like 30 something then you might even want to consider a testosteral boost product.  Popye's is  a great store and also has a web site.  So is GNC but I just don't like that card thing they  have.


Thanks again and the best of luck.


----------



## stealthylizard

Good advice except for the part about supplements.  Don't use them.  You won't have access to them during BMQ, and depending on your trade, you won't have access to them during your trades training either.  A multivitamin is different, but shouldn't be necessary if you eat balanced meals, which are available if one wants in any mess in the military.


----------



## Big burn

I have trained with a friend for a few months following the crossfit program and I personnaly recommend it.  i never really train in a gym and i don't think it is what represent the most what you will be asked to do in the CF compared to Crossfit which is a very good combined of cardio and muscular.  I have a question for those who might have the answer, How do you get to improve your running when you already do good.  For example, i run 4 kilometers in 16 minutes but that is my max pace for this amount of time but i would like to eventually do 8 in 32. How do i get there ? I've tried intervals but still , it hasnt helped me out very much i still run every 2 days.  Somebody knows how to improve at running?


----------



## EuroCanuck

Hey Big Burn. I too am an exceptional runner, and just recently my trainer at the local gym switched my running routine to shorter runs (20mins) but running up gradual hills (treadmill incline), hill intervals, and emphasizing on leg exercises. If you're legs are the first 'to go', try training that way for a bit.. But 8k's in 32 minutes is doable by running 3-4 times a week outside for about 25-40 minutes/session. Have fun  : P


----------



## Big burn

Hey thanks a lot for answering, honestly I don't really know what between my legs and my heart drop first.  At that rythm it is sure that my HB is around 180 at the end of the run so almost optimal but I should try what you said about putting the accent on (muscling) my legs.  I'll try that and give feedback in a week or two of the exercises i did.


----------



## EuroCanuck

Also, within 4 months on training with slower longer runs, my resting heart rate dropped about 20 beats, but my HR at 10mph only dropped like 3 or 4? I think that's why my trainer is emphasizing leg work now, maybe it'll help my 'max heart rate' drop easier. Don't quote me on that though - it's just my understanding.


----------



## Pat_Y

Hey just wanted to comment.

I have never been in really good shape but I have been going to the gym and working out a little.
In regards to the running, I started out doing the 2.4 k and I did that in 10 45.
Since then I have been going to the gym and running almost 4 times a week and doing 4k each time. Once I got that down I started adding in hills and inclines. It worked like a charm. I am down to doing the 2.4 in 9 minutes and 34 seconds.

If you are looking for some good workouts just go ask the people that work at the gyms. They helped me out a lot with just figuring out what to do to get better times and what exercises will help you the most.

Good luck!!!


----------



## combat_clarke

I was wondering if someone could shed some light on this subject. I want to improve my running times I usually pump out 5.5K in 30Minutes. I run 6 times a week not including biking back and forth to regiment and home that is a 45Minute trip every day 5 times a week. I do a 25K bike ride and a 10K ruck sack march on weekends. I dont consider myself out of shape but what fustrates me is when I go on group runs I fall very far behind the group and it makes me look bad. I was hoping someone could give me some guidence or have any sugestions on how to improve my running speed other then being told by my smart ass fellow Sapppers to run faster. I believe I am giving it my all but it seems my body cannot keep up what do I have to do to improve this?.  Thanks for your time Chimo!!!


----------



## Pat_Y

Not to be a jerk but your fellow sappers are right...

I can only comment on what you have said so far and if I have missed something I am sorry.

The one thing that I found that improved my running times was to start off by running at a natural pace and then with timed intervals (ex every 5 min) start to push your self and run as fast as you can. After a minute of this slow down and continue your regular pace. And every 5 minutes push your self... I know this is not the popular or maybe the correct way to do it but it has worked for me. 

Once you get comfortable and you are able to hold the faster pace, extend the amount of time that you are running at that speed (ex run that speed every 2.5 minutes).

Sooner then later as I found you will feel that you are less tired and can hold the faster pace for a much longer time. This took me about 3 weeks to really get it down but it has worked. From there and once you are comfortable try to increase your speed during the fast pace portion. 

You will find that this is not a quick solution but works in a few weeks. You will also find that your natural running pace that you run between the intervals will increase with time. I suggest using a treadmill so you can keep track of what speeds and times you are using.

Good luck Sapper_Clarke and tell me how it goes.


----------



## monicasmall

Really curious about the running in BMQ and SQ. I am in reasonable shape and can run a couple km before I get a stitch.I have googled till my eyes fell out for the answer to this. I have done everything, controllong my breathing,belly breathing,am hydrated,don't eat before i run,increase potassium.All sites suggest slowing down or stopping till it's gone but don't think that will be the case in BMQ.What happens if we are all out running and some of us get stitches?If I get a mild one I can run through it but sometimes they are wicked to the point where I can feel it for the rest of the day.What's up with that?What do i do???

Heeeelllpppppp me :-[


----------



## futuresapper

After several years of high performance track and firled I feel that I am qualified enough to try and help.  What always works for me is to RELAX, try your best to stop laboring and just relax your upper body and run through it. It WILL go away, the more you tense up the worse it will get and the longer it will take to shake off.  Just don't panic and think "oh no," take a few deep controlled breath and do your best not to tense up.

Hope that helps a little, if not try and take more calcium and magnesium, its very undercredited for athletic cramping.

Happy training!


----------



## elninorey

Hey guys ive been training for a while, and would just like some feedback on my performance. I leave to BMQ august 30 and want to be in the best shape that i can by that time. 

I am 17 (18 on saturday) and weigh about 152 lbs. I have been boxing for 21 months now and am in reasonably good shape from that. I can do about 35 push ups and around 35 situps (more if someone is holding my feet), about 10 chin ups (close-grip) and can run 2.4km in around 11:25. Strength wise i think im fine but its the cardio that i REALLY want to improve on. Its weird because boxing is very cardio intensive and i have been jogging since around may, and recently started doing intervals.

So i would just like some feedback on my performance thus far please  .


----------



## tropicalbreeze

I am just wondering if I will be required to do PT test again once I start BMQ on August 8th. I had to do PT test before I was accepted. I passed my PT test.


----------



## gcclarke

tropicalbreeze said:
			
		

> I am just wondering if I will be required to do PT test again once I start BMQ on August 8th. I had to do PT test before I was accepted. I passed my PT test.



Indeed you shall.


----------



## George Wallace

tropicalbreeze said:
			
		

> I am just wondering if I will be required to do PT test again once I start BMQ on August 8th. I had to do PT test before I was accepted. I passed my PT test.



Your PT Test is good for six months to a year.  If you have met the minimum standard on a CF Expres Test, it is good for one year.  If you exceded the maximum, and achieved an EXEMPT on the CF Express, it is good for two years.  To get on any course, you must have a current CF Expres.


----------



## forumdood007

What worked for me, who is, well, way over 40, is this: for running, I got the "Couch to 5K" Podcasts, free in iTunes (I can now run 5K) For the rest....simple....P90X. When I go to BMQ I can assure you, I want to be better than the 20 somethings!!!! If you are computer literate you will have no probs acquiring this stuff.


----------



## bc_boy2

I'm 19 years old and am going to CFLRS on July 26th as armoured soldier.  For the past 5-6 months I've been exercising 4-6 days a week.  Each exercise consists of running (meaning very brief walking, jogging and full out sprinting) on the treadmill for 20 mins (reaching approx. 2.5 km), doing 3 sets of 20 push ups, 3 sets of 20 sit ups, 3 sets of 10 squats, 3 sets of 15 on bench press (at 110 lb) and 3 sets of 15 curls (at 20 lbs).  I have been monitoring my progress, and I've gaining 5-10 lbs of muscle (Its hard to tell but, I'm definitely not gaining fat).   My question is: Physically, is this enough preparation?  (I have read everything there is available on PT for BMQ, I'm more interested in what you all think personally.)  

Also, I believe my sleep habits are a problem.  I sleep approx. 8-10 hours a night (given that I only work part time and don't have a heck of alot of responsibilities at the moment).   Should I attempt to adopt the sleep schedule I will have at CFLRS right away? (as in sleep at 2300 and wake at 0500)  I was planning on starting that sleep schedule in the very beginning of June (BMQ on July 26th) but, would that be waiting too long?  Did anyone else do this? or currently doing this to prepare for there BMQ?

P.S.:  This is my first topic post so, if I did something wrong, please tell me.  Thank you


----------



## QORvanweert

Sleep now while you can. You will kick yourself later if you don't.


----------



## Griffon

I would suggest getting 8 hours a night sleep right now.  If you get yourself into the schedule of going to bed at 2200 and getting up at 0600, you shouldn't find the transition to the BMQ schedule too hard.  Remember, the schedule they put you on at CFLRS is partly designed to impart stress on the recruits, it isn't a sleep schedule that you are expected to maintain for the rest of your career.  As for PT, I would be pushing it hard.  What you are doing now would suffice to pass, but it will be better for you in the long run to be in as good of shape as you possibly can.  The better shape you are in the easier basic will be for you, and you will also be better prepared for the subsequent Combat Arms training.

IMHO, I would have the following goals in mind before attending CFLRS:

Running: 5 km @ 10 km/h (30min), 2.4 km in less than 12 min (10 min would be better).
Pushups: 35 continuous, no pausing.
Sit-ups: 35 in one minute.
Chin-ups: 10

Don't stagnate in your training, make sure you are always pushing your limits (but don't exceed them, there's a fine line!)

It's ok to do cardio training everyday, but if you are be sure you're switching it up:  alternate between intervals and long distance.  Intervals will increase your top speed and the long distance will improve your stamina.

For your pushups, situps, and chinups, you should be training every SECOND day, allowing your muscles some time to recover and build.  If you don't allow your muscles sufficient rest in between sessions you will put yourself into an overtraining situation and will plateau, or worse.  With that being said, on the days that you are training (including with weights) push them hard.  If you finish your set of 20 and you feel like you can do more, do more.  If you feel like you can't, do more anyway .  

Anyway, that's the extent of my advice, but it sounds like your off to a great start!


----------



## Nauticus

For fitness, just be in the best shape you can. Based on what you're doing and how much longer you'll be doing it, you shouldn't have any problems for BMQ. You'll still be dog-tired, sore, and stressed (everyone is), but you'll get used to that. Just don't get injured before you even leave to BMQ.

With sleeping, you can do what you want, but also remember the time difference between where you live and CFLRC St. Jean. I didn't adjust my sleeping habits at all, but I do believe it was mostly the time zone that affected me.

My biggest word of advice is this (based on watching someone else go through it, and eventually VR from BMQ)
Don't prepare your ass off, and expect BMQ to be a cakewalk. When you get there and discover it isn't, don't get discouraged. Don't start second guessing yourself, and eventually VR because you convinced yourself you were unprepared.

BMQ is difficult. You could be physically ready, but you won't be mentally ready until you're there. It's meant to be stressful, and I dare say it's meant to make you second-guess why you're even there. But if you want it, you'll get it and that second-guessing turns into confidence and pride.

Good luck!


----------



## MedTechStudent

bc_boy2 said:
			
		

> is this enough preparation?



Yes.

I feel like I should also mention that there are dozens of threads (beaten into the ground at that) regarding preparation for BMQ.


----------



## bc_boy2

MedKAWD said:
			
		

> Yes.
> 
> I feel like I should also mention that there are dozens of threads (beaten into the ground at that) regarding preparation for BMQ.



I'm aware of them, and I have read many of them.  I was just curious if my personal preparation is enough.  ( I had concerns about my running and other things)  My apologies for being redundant on BMQ preparation.



Thank you for the responses, I found everyone very helpful.  If anyone else has anything further to add, feel free to.  I greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Fusaki

bc_boy2 said:
			
		

> Also, I believe my sleep habits are a problem.  I sleep approx. 8-10 hours a night (given that I only work part time and don't have a heck of alot of responsibilities at the moment).   Should I attempt to adopt the sleep schedule I will have at CFLRS right away?



I'm not a doctor, but I don't think you'll gain anything by sleeping less prior to BMQ.  As far as I know, the only _real_ way to mitigate the effects of a lack of sleep during training is to be in top physical condition.  If you have extra time on your hands, my advice would be to exercise hard, eat a lot, and sleep _as much as you can._  

Your mantra should be "Exercise, calories, recovery, repeat."

And don't forget to drink some beers too.  Relax and enjoy your downtime now, because you'll be busy soon enough.

Good luck!


----------



## Brutus

The better fitness you have, the easier EVERYTHING else is. It is the one area of your experience on Basic that you can have a drastic impact on NOW. 

Everything is a lot more fun when you're in shape. 

If it were me, I'd have a goal of being able to do 50 push-ups continuous, 50 sit-ups, 12 chin ups, and do 2.4 k in 10 mins or less.


----------



## NazTheEternal

I am personally preparing for BMQ myself, I just got my paper work done and was told to expect to be in BMQ roughly around September - November.

I visit the gym 3-4 times a week and generally switch my workouts around... Abs every other day + Shoulders/Back one day, chest and biceps the other, legs on other days + running (running on weekends as well)

I am going to start doing once a week jog/marches with weights on my back this month.

Honestly, I'll I have heard is exactly what everyone says here, you can never be too fit!

Hopefully this helped you in some way mate and best of luck at BMQ!

Cheers.


----------



## bernacj21

atticus said:
			
		

> So, I noticed that after I run, my legs aren't sore the next day at all now. Even if I run in the morning that evening it feels as if I didn't run at all. Is this okay, or should I be taking this as a note to work harder?






Well, that is good for you Atticus, that was a note that you will work harder.  That everything that we wanted, we must work harder for it. Likewise, if we want a physical fitness body we must persevere on exercising, like jogging, proper diet, and also strength. So that we can get a best result for our effort.


----------



## Robbie4296

Good posts, Iam by far a expert in this jogging/running field but have come across some really interesting information regarding jogging.
Like most starting out I suffered from shin splints, soreness etc which made jogging a chore to do, took all sorts of advice-body straight, heel to toe running etc. Well down at the local park I managed to catch up with a guy who was running very different than lots leaning foward, almost intentionally!!! and feet were not heel to toe, so ofcourse I had to ask, he stated that he was Chi Running, I kind of chuckled until he explained more on the teqnique envovled.
So being more curious I You Tubed Chi Running and the lead promoter of this style this Dryer guy explained in the video more which makes a ton of sense. 
I would post the link but not to sure how, anyhow this non-heel to toe thing and not leaning foward a bit was a must try. Wow no shin splints. The style of running has actually been used by the Kenya running school for many years, leaning just a bit foward, they were asked why lean foward, reply" running and jogging is no more than just a controlled fall".
I recommend checking these videos out, because like I said before I am not by far a authorty in this area, but what makes sense, makes sense and my legs dont suffer any more.


----------



## stealthylizard

I'd like to add and hopefully this hasn't been covered yet here.  Keeping up fitness, especially cardio, even while deployed is very important.  There will be a time when you have to start running every day again, like when you get back to garrison life.  You would be surprised how quickly the ability to run fades during a tour.  I've never been much of a runner, but since I got back I feel like I am back to week 1 of BMQ, ha ha.  I don't know if anyone has any suggestions on how to do cardio when stuck in a leaguer, but it would be helpful to some of us.

To those that are gauging their running performance from a treadmill, don't.  There is a huge difference between actual running and a treadmill, and I have found the distances stated on a treadmill aren't that accurate.  The only way to actually determine your time for the 2.4km is to run it on a measured route either outdoors, or on an indoor track.

And one more for those that aren't great at running.  Don't give up.  It will be noticeable that you fall behind every run, but if you give it your best, and keep running at a slower pace to catch your breath, it at least shows determination and other than some slagging that your slow but for the most part they want to see effort and an improvement over time.  They will not be very happy if you start walking.  The important part is to keep that running motion going.

Remember, it is easier to stay in shape than it is to get in shape.


----------



## JB 11 11

I second stealthylizard's comment about the treadmill! Im training up for BMQ right now and have a gym at the office...I also run in the park up the street. At first, I was sticking to the treadmill because the park is super hilly and has weird meandering trails and paths, so its hard to get a accurate read on distance and speed... easier to do with the treadmill. BUT, man... huge difference indeed. Once I started hitting the park more often, I was shocked at how little distance I could cover in the same amount of time as on the treadmill. So now Im using the treadmill for warm ups in the gym and Run mostly in the park. As I said, its got hills all over, good training, and I have noticed a definite improvement on my treadmill performance since. 

Another thing I've come to understand and realize (especially being an older recruit), making sure your body is balanced in terms of core strength and stability play a huge role in running. When I started to train about 6 months ago,  I had  a lot of trouble while running....I'd get really sore hamstrings, knee, and shoulders. At first I thought it was over the hill (at 32! LOL!!) so went to the doc, cause it just felt wrong. Turns out years of slacking off has created an imbalance in my core and the stronger side of my body overcompensates, creating fatigue and eventually injury. So.... long story short, get that core strength where it should be. Sounds like a no brainer, but core strength is the most important thing. Big biceps mean jack if your core is outta wack.

my 2cents  
JB


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

Personally and its been proven in researches and anecdotal evidence, that unless you're a long distance runner and need to practice said event that there are far better ways to acquire aerobic endurance then running 10-20km in a shot.

I don't about you guys but I don't exactly have the 1-3 hours to run that much...AND next to wacthing paint dry its probably the most boring thing to do, so i'd go for alternatives...circuit training, intervals, etc lot more fun, same/similar results. and less time.


----------



## davidsonr_91

Not sure if anyone can help shed light on what is wrong with my leg/calf but here goes, any good input will be appreciated.  I had an issue with my shoulders in which I saw physio about the rotator cuff in which things are alright now but while I was waiting for my shoulders to get better I changed my form for running and had a pain going down starting in the bottom of my calf/soleus going through my achilles into the bottom of my feet.  I had a mild case of plantar facitis but that went away then went into my achilles but only mild then into my lower calf/soleus into my foot with regular discomfort in the joints along with the ankle.  I have got better but i have not ran in a while and have been trying to get my feet use to wearing my combats again as i am going for a course soon.  Now I am trying to stretch my calf but at times it feels tight but stretch that and my achilles with cracks and pops once and a whilke when i am stretching it.  I have seen the dr but they said that it's these things and so on to do this and it will be fine but this has taken about a month and a half to get to this point and know that it will continue to get better and will be fine soon but wouldn't mind finding out what happened and what I can do to avoid it again.


----------



## bran

How many of you run/train through injury/pain in order to keep training or going on courses? I keep getting injuries every time I step up my PT and it's driving me crazy. So I was wondering if anyone has had the same issue, and just said f**k it and kept on training, doing courses, etc.

I appreciate the feedback.


----------



## darkskye

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't recommend you continue training if you're hurt or in pain; you'll do more damage than good. I would recommend doing some other form of exercising while that particular part of your body is healing.

Regards,


----------



## Ascendant

It depends.

If it's "wow, I'm sore today," then yes, continue training.

If it's "wow, I'm super sore today," then continue training.

If you think whatever it is may be "hurt," rest it for a couple days, or just until it feels better and resume training. If the process repeats itself, figure out why via necessary means. (Internet, medical professional.)

If you're getting hurt from running, with no previous health issues, then maybe look at your recovery. Are you employing any SMR/foam rolling? Stretching? An issue of a tight "something" can cause soreness or pain in another "something".

Perhaps you can provide some more details?


----------



## JB 11 11

Training through the pain is what got me in trouble. I used to be a pretty hard core Cadet back when I was young and trained hard as hell then. During my early-mid 20's I partied more than trained and went through long bouts of in-activity followed by short "intense" periods where mentally I was still hard as nails, but physically, I was crap. I used to just fight through the pain, not realizing (or caring at the time) that I was to pay dearly for this by creating the perfect situation for injuries... which of course plagued me later on and still does today sometimes. But now I rest or train light if I pull anything or feel out of wack and have educated myself a bit better in terms of training your body and taking care of it so it lasts.

So in short, learn to listen to your body, it'll definitely let you know when its ready to jack if you know what to look for.


----------



## GloriaVictis

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to share a handy running aid with you; I found an app for the Blackberry phone called 'RoadRunner GPS'. It uses collaborative information from 4 satellites to map your route, changes in altitude, pace (measured in either minutes per km or mile) and total running time. You can also set it to alert you at distance or time intervals. When you are finished your run it sends the data to a website that you have a secure log-in for; from there you can view a graph of your varying speeds over the course of your run. All the data charts are stored online, so it's a great tool for monitoring your progress over time. Also, if you are aiming for a specific distance it saves having to run at a track.
Just thought I'd share it with you...it's been really helpful for me so far.


----------



## theSeaDog

ONT said:
			
		

> How many of you run/train through injury/pain in order to keep training or going on courses? I keep getting injuries every time I step up my PT and it's driving me crazy. So I was wondering if anyone has had the same issue, and just said f**k it and kept on training, doing courses, etc.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback.



Training with injuries is never good. First and foremost, you put yourself at risk of further injuring yourself. Are you talking injuries such as joint sprains? Even a grade 1 sprain should facilitate an appropriate resting/healing period. If you further strain the ligaments you risk tearing them. I'm not sure if it is even possible to fully recover from these tears.

This is different from delayed onset muscle soreness. This is where, after especially strenuous/new routines, you can't move and it "aches" to do things. At this point, you should continue to keep active and move but let off the gas for a few days and stretch lots. Eventually your muscles attenuate. Movement and stretching is important during this phase. I believe it is because it prevents fibrosis, but then I'm not a physiologist; I'm sure many out there could explain it better than I could.

On a different note: For those of you running with an iPhone, a great App to track your running is RunKeeper. It's very similar to the App GloriaVictis mentioned (I don't think her app is available for the iPhone).


----------



## stealthylizard

You shouldnt run/train through injury in order to keep going on course, but pretty much everybody does.  I am sure everybody in the infantry knows of someone on their battle school that finished with an injury that they probably should have seeked medical attention.  On mine, one guy had broken ribs and made it through the last 3 weeks, which included offensive/defensive week, and CQC.  Another one had a hairline fracture in their femur and finished CQC week.


----------



## Ascendant

If you can train without making it worse, go for it.

If training will make it worse, reconsider.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Kratos said:
			
		

> If you can train without making it worse, go for it.
> 
> If training will make it worse, reconsider.



Wrong. If you're injured you seek medical evaluation. You're not a doctor. Stay away from advising people about medical conditions.


----------



## Ascendant

recceguy said:
			
		

> Wrong. If you're injured you seek medical evaluation. You're not a doctor. Stay away from advising people about medical conditions.



I don't think I ever claimed to be a doctor, nor did I give medical advice on any condition. I did state my view point on the subject.

Are you, then, saying that someone should seek medical attention for every bump and bruise? If so,* in my opinion*, that's ridiculous.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Kratos said:
			
		

> I don't think I ever claimed to be a doctor, nor did I give medical advice on any condition. I did state my view point on the subject.
> 
> Are you, then, saying that someone should seek medical attention for every bump and bruise? If so,* in my opinion*, that's ridiculous.



Let's not try deflect and cloud the issue. If a person is hurt, say from running, the idea of continuing on through a pain you've never (or maybe you have) experienced before is ridiculous. And you know darn well, from the previous posts, we're not talking about bumps and bruises. The point being, that in the military, you err on the side of caution. If you are hurt, don't report it, continue on and exacerbate it, you have put yourself in a position to be charged. You'll learn this little tidbit if you join.

Telling someone to continue on through the pain (you don't know how much, or what's causing it, or if it will make it worse) is akin to amateur medical advice. On this 'military' site, we like to try have people stay in their lanes. Medical diagnostics, care and treatment isn't yours.

If you require further clarification, I'm sure one of our resident military Doctors or Medics will be along to do that for you.

Milnet.ca Staff

_edit for spelling (Thx Occam   )_


----------



## Ascendant

Actually, I made my post after only reading post #298.

I guess I need a medical degree to know the difference between pain caused by an injury and soreness.

So, if you're on course and it's time to go for a run and you say "sorry, I can't, my legs are kind of sore," what kind of response are you going to get?

"Drop and give me thirty!"
"I can't, my arms and chest are pretty sore."

I don't see the issue with the point I was trying to make to begin with, which was basically that there is a difference between soreness and injury. One you can train through, the other, maybe not so much.

Should you go to the doctor if you have DOMS?


----------



## George Wallace

Kratos said:
			
		

> So, if you're on course and it's time to go for a run and you say "sorry, I can't, my legs are kind of sore," what kind of response are you going to get?
> 
> "Drop and give me thirty!"
> "I can't, my arms and chest are pretty sore"
> 
> I don't see the issue with the point I was trying to make to begin with. There is a difference between soreness and injury. One you can train through, the other, maybe not so much.



The answer from the Staff will be for you to immediately march yourself directly to the MIR/UMS and get a Sick Chit for that problem.......or you do the exercise.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Kratos said:
			
		

> Should you go to the doctor if you have DOMS?



If it keeps you from performing the duty expected of you until it subsides then yes, you would go to the MIR. [if that what they call it nowadays]

Do you tell your boss you can't do your job today because of your DOMS?


----------



## Ascendant

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Do you tell your boss you can't do your job today because of your DOMS?



No, because that would be beyond ridiculous.

When training, are people in the military taught proper recovery methods? Things like stretching and, possibly even more important, SMR?


----------



## stealthylizard

I have no idea what SMR is, but we usually stretch every morning before PT.  Are we taught the proper method of stretching, probably not.  Do we stretch at the proper time? Who knows?  Some think you should stretch before starting any exercise.  Others think you should do a warm up first then stretch, and there are those that have you stretch while warming up.  Some advise that you don't stretch immediately after a run, and wait an hour.


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

In regards to "proper recovery" stretching is nowhere near the most important factor, nutrition and sleep/rest are.  You can do all the stretching in the world, but if you don't sleep/rest and eat like crap...you won't recover as fast.


----------



## Ascendant

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> In regards to "proper recovery" stretching is nowhere near the most important factor, nutrition and sleep/rest are.  You can do all the stretching in the world, but if you don't sleep/rest and eat like crap...you won't recover as fast.



Sleeping and eating are usually implied....


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

You'd think, but not so many people are that logical.  I also wouldn't say stretching helps recovery. Unless you can do fascia stretching, I would say massage therapy would help more.


----------



## REDinstaller

Warming muscles up before a work out is always a good idea. It cuts down on soreness after runs, and strenghtening exercises. Along with preventing injuries due to cold inactive muscles. ie.strains


----------



## Ascendant

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> You'd think, but not so many people are that logical.  I also wouldn't say stretching helps recovery. Unless you can do fascia stretching, I would say massage therapy would help more.



SMR+stretching after a workout or hot shower will work wonders and be more than enough in almost any situation. Provided, of course, you know how to do it properly, but that knowledge can be easily attained through Google. 

Stretching certainly helps recovery.


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

lets agree to disagree.

i'm also of the school of thought of no stretching before exercises...just a warm-up.


----------



## JB 11 11

Personally, I used to stretch before AND after as that was how i was taught when I was a wee Cadet. Then a friend of mine who does triathlons  A LOT mentioned that he never stretches.... ever. But he is also one of those freaks of nature who can down pints and pints of guiness and then compete the next morning all bright eyed and bushy tailed.... but I digress. I tried his method, as I've always found stretching to be a big pain in the arse.... but I just got tighter and tighter and did not feel good. 

Now I warm up a bit, then do the exercises, cool down then stretch. Its what works for me. Also, if I'm particularly stiff after a work out I'll do a little stretch routine to get the blood flowing again. After trying different methods, I am a firm believer in different strokes for different folks. 
On a different note.... I just changed my running shoes....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My god! I can't believe I used to actually run in the old ones. I always thought that Running Room was bunch of crap, but after getting knee problems earlier this year from running, I looked into proper shoe fitting. Long story short, the right shoes made all the difference. I now hurt where Im supposed to hurt after a run and my feet don't feel like I've done 30Km when I'd only done 3  ;D The right shoes folks..... trust me!


----------



## Ascendant

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> lets agree to disagree.



It's not really a matter of opinion...


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Kratos said:
			
		

> It's not really a matter of opinion...



Just curious do you have a degree in Physical Education or Sports Medicine?


----------



## The_Falcon

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> lets agree to disagree.
> 
> i'm also of the school of thought of no stretching before exercises...just a warm-up.



Don't forget there is "static" stretching, that we all know and love, and have probably done at some point since we were in kindergarten, and "active/dynamic" stretching which can involve a myriad of different things (and what people usually refer to as a 'warm up', usually mimicking the intended exercise by way of no weight or light weights working up to your actual "work sets".  Example a few sets of full ROM airs squats before front/back/overhead squads (gradually adding weight up to my work set).

This personal how I operate, active stretching/warm up before working out, followed by static stretching afterwards.


			
				Kratos said:
			
		

> It's not really a matter of opinion...


Sure it is, everyone and there mother has an opinion, and the so-called experts can't even agree, it seem like every other month/cycle of the moon, there is a new study that is either pro/con stretching before/after workouts, and usually takes the opposite opinion/conclusion of whatever the previous study said.  Result mass confusion all around, so really the only thing available is one's own opinion based on their experience and training, and its usually in relation to what works best for them.


----------



## Ascendant

Therefore, in my opinion, the sun does not rise in the east.


----------



## Jarnhamar

I never stretch or warm up/cool down. Doesn't seem to effect me that much.


----------



## Chilme

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> I never stretch or warm up/cool down. Doesn't seem to effect me that much.



You're playing a dangerous game.


----------



## PrairieBoy

Now, I despise running, but I realise how essential it is. I get plenty of strength exercise from both my work and from exercises that I do on my own (usually 30-100 pushups a day and 50-150 situps), so I need to work on running, especially endurance running, most of all. I'm planning on joining a rugby team in the spring, since rugby is about the only sport which can make running fun for me, and rugby has a LOT of running, but I think running on a treadmill or at a gym might also be worthwhile to pursue.

Anyone have any advice on good running routines for someone who hates running, and how to keep running interesting even when I'm not on the rugby field?

EDIT: I seem to have put this in the wrong topic. Could a mod please move it over to the Running topic?


----------



## The_Falcon

Pro Stretching before
http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/docs/rec/stretching/stretching_5.html
http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/sportsmedicine/ht/stretchingout.htm
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/351774/why_do_i_need_to_stretch_before_working.html


Con
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-04-15-stretching-muscles_N.htm
http://www.suite101.com/content/stretching-before-work-out-is-harmful-experts-say-a226666
http://poststar.com/sports/article_b9b72470-490c-11df-8b3c-001cc4c03286.html
http://newszine.jou.ufl.edu/science/1530/experts-dont-stretch-before-work-out
http://www.wikihow.com/Stretch
Ambiguous
http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7362/468.full
http://weighttraining.about.com/od/physicaltherapy/a/stretching.htm
http://www.menshealth.com/men/fitness/muscle-building/guide-to-stretching-and-strength-training/article/8cb828fa64605010VgnVCM200000cee793cd
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/07/06/06/stretching-and-exercise-is-stretching-before-exercise-dangerous-when-should-you-stretch.htm

There are many many article and pages, and links to study for all three categories, so given the ambiguity of whether or not stretching is or is not beneficial, the making profound hardline statements either way (pro/con) is irresponsible.  Do what works for YOU.


----------



## Ascendant

From one of the links in your "*Pro*-stretching before" list:

"Stretching before your workout will put your Central Nervous System (CNS) to sleep to increase your range of motion. It will result with less gain than improvement on the muscle part. The CNS naturally provides resistance by stimulating antagonists muscles when you flex a muscle to prevent it from being too stretched and tear your conjunctive tissues. Never stretch prior to workout, and always do it after."

Just sayin'.

I do some SMR before I go to the gym, but I never stretch before I lift on lifting days, because it makes me feel weaker.

I never stretch before testing my limit strength (1RM) because it makes me weaker.

I can't generalize that to everyone, but I'm pretty sure if you stretched and then went and maxed your squat or deadlift, you would be weaker than if you had not.


----------



## The_Falcon

There fixed it, a little too hasty with the old copypasta


----------



## Task

Does anyone have a link to a Rep max chart (don't need the calculator) that at least goes up to 15RM?

I did a google search and the highest I could find was 10.


----------



## Ascendant

Task said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a link to a Rep max chart (don't need the calculator) that at least goes up to 15RM?
> 
> I did a google search and the highest I could find was 10.



Can you be a bit more specific?


----------



## The_Falcon

something like this http://www.criticalbench.com/weight-training-chart.htm ?


----------



## Task

Sure... I have several exercises that I know my 1 Rep Max ie Bench 275lbs,  Squats 265 (I know, disproportionate  )

The routine I have started requires me to use the weight of my 15 Rep max for each ex. 

This is just a training aid and is more inaccurate with more reps but it is helpful to take a quick look and gauge what I have to push when there is many consecutive exercises .

Ie.     If my (already tested) 1 Rep max for bench was 176 lbs and my routine requires me to do 10 then I would choose 135lbs for my workout.



Reps	  10    9      8      7      6      5      4      3      2      1

  lbs  135	143	147	151	156	159	163	167	171	176
        145	154	158	162	167	171	175	180	184	189
        155	164	169	174	183	188	192	197	202	207
        165	175	180	185	190	195	200	205	210	215
        175	186	191	196	201	207	212	217	222	228
        185	196	202	207	213	218	224	229	235	241
        195	207	213	218	224	230	236	242	248	254
        205	217	223	230	236	242	248	254	260	267


----------



## Task

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> something like this http://www.criticalbench.com/weight-training-chart.htm ?



Thats the one, thanks a lot Hatchet Man.


----------



## The_Falcon

No problem, I am quite bored right now, and it gave me something to do. ;D


----------



## Task

I'm waiting for CR regen too


----------



## Jebus

The only reason to stretch is if your muscle are tight and you cant operate with a full range of motion. Everyone should do warm up sets, I do an empty bar x 5, 90x5, 135x5 then my work sets...

If you want to stretch after workout go ahead, Its pointless but it wont kill you. If you keep working out your body will get used to the DOMS and you'll feel fine.


----------



## canada94

No, stretching after working out helps your muscles heal and re-cooperate quicker, along with eating well and drinking lots of water and a good POST stretch your muscles healing process will be quicker.

Mike


----------



## Jebus

canada94 said:
			
		

> No, stretching after working out helps your muscles heal and re-cooperate quicker, along with eating well and drinking lots of water and a good POST stretch your muscles healing process will be quicker.
> 
> Mike



I agree with the above except, for post stretching. I have yet to see any empirical evidence showing faster healing. Also don't forget sleep, rest is the most important healing process.


----------



## canada94

Jebus said:
			
		

> I agree with the above except, for post stretching. I have yet to see any empirical evidence showing faster healing. Also don't forget sleep, rest is the most important healing process.



No. A proper cool down stretch helps your muscles "cool" or become less stressed (tense) and allows the muscles to heal quicker, allowing you to continue with a workout quicker and more frequent. 

Mike


----------



## Ascendant

So, Jebus, if my pecs are tight after benching, I shouldn't stretch them so, after a couple weeks, I can walk around with hunched shoulders? That's really goof for your shoulders...

Also, if my hamstrings are really tight and causing my too lose lower back tightness when squatting, I shouldn't stretch them to fix the problem?

Sense. You make none.


----------



## Jebus

Kratos said:
			
		

> So, Jebus, if my pecs are tight after benching, I shouldn't stretch them so, after a couple weeks, I can walk around with hunched shoulders? That's really goof for your shoulders...
> 
> Also, if my hamstrings are really tight and causing my too lose lower back tightness when squatting, I shouldn't stretch them to fix the problem?
> 
> Sense. You make none.



lol If you read my first post, "The only reason to stretch is if your muscle are TIGHT and you cant operate with a full range of motion. Everyone should do warm up sets, I do an empty bar x 5, 90x5, 135x5 then my work sets..."


----------



## Mattvdh

The original post was very informative but I was curious about dairy. I've read many articles on nutrition concerning lactose intolerance and allergies related to dairy and how it negatively effects people more than most realize. I was just wondering if you all consider this to be accurate or just PETA propaganda (lol) or general misinformation.  I've never formally been diagnosed with any dairy allergies /lactose intolerance but I'm pretty sure its the culprit for bloating, gas and the diarrhea's.  
Thanks


----------



## Ascendant

Mattvdh said:
			
		

> The original post was very informative but I was curious about dairy. I've read many articles on nutrition concerning lactose intolerance and allergies related to dairy and how it negatively effects people more than most realize. I was just wondering if you all consider this to be accurate or just PETA propaganda (lol) or general misinformation.  I've never formally been diagnosed with any dairy allergies /lactose intolerance but I'm pretty sure its the culprit for bloating, gas and the diarrhea's.
> Thanks



If you can drink it without any problems, drink it. If it messes you up, then you should probably reconsider.

I drink ~1-2 L of homogenized milk per day with no issues.


----------



## Mattvdh

What's a good substitute IYO?


----------



## Jebus

Kratos said:
			
		

> If you can drink it without any problems, drink it. If it messes you up, then you should probably reconsider.
> 
> I drink ~1-2 L of homogenized milk per day with no issues.


Is that whole milk your talking about? (;


I drink a gallon of whole milk a day, with minor problems. Also there really isnt any good subsitute for Real milk, everything else is quite high in sugar.


----------



## canada94

Jebus said:
			
		

> Is that whole milk your talking about? (;
> 
> 
> I drink a gallon of whole milk a day, with minor problems. Also there really isnt any good subsitute for Real milk, everything else is quite high in sugar.



Specific types of "soy" drink are just as good. And if you are younger and can take in higher amounts of sugar, chocolate soy taste really good. But other types of soy have less sugars.

Mike


----------



## Ascendant

Jebus said:
			
		

> Is that whole milk your talking about? (;
> 
> 
> I drink a gallon of whole milk a day, with minor problems. Also there really isnt any good subsitute for Real milk, everything else is quite high in sugar.



Yes, whole = homogenized.


----------



## Ascendant

canada94 said:
			
		

> Specific types of "soy" drink are just as good. And if you are younger and can take in higher amounts of sugar, chocolate soy taste really good. But other types of soy have less sugars.
> 
> Mike



I believe soy has been linked to raising estrogen levels and decreasing testosterone levels in men, as it contains phytoestrogen.

I would avoid soy like the plague, or at least consuming it on a regular basis. I try to go with the first one.


----------



## canada94

Kratos said:
			
		

> I believe soy has been linked to raising estrogen levels and decreasing testosterone levels in men, as it contains phytoestrogen.
> 
> I would avoid soy like the plague, or at least consuming it on a regular basis. I try to go with the first one.



It it decreases semen level by 0.007% if thats what you mean. But sure, I love it.

Mike 

Also just to add, Phytoestrogen is not  human _Steriod_ like estrogen itself.. but BINDS to the same cells Estrogen would, so basically it does the opposite of what you where implying. As well it is proven to prevent prostate cancer and heart disease. 

Just my  :2c:


----------



## Ascendant

canada94 said:
			
		

> It it decreases semen level by 0.007% if thats what you mean. But sure, I love it.
> 
> Mike
> 
> Also just to add, Phytoestrogen is not  human _Steriod_ like estrogen itself.. but BINDS to the same cells Estrogen would, so basically it does the opposite of what you where implying. As well it is proven to prevent prostate cancer and heart disease.
> 
> Just my  :2c:



The research is out there if you choose to look for it, but I know I won't be eating it.


----------



## canada94

Kratos said:
			
		

> The research is out there if you choose to look for it, but I know I won't be eating it.



And you don't have to, just drink milk! I can't stand white milk so I either drink soy, or chocolate milk. And same to you, the information i gave you is out there "if you choose to look for it". 

Don't give one side of a story, and not expect to hear the other, 

Mike.


----------



## Jebus

Soy is garbage. Those studies promoting them by the way, are funded by similar corporations that make them.


----------



## Task

Jebus said:
			
		

> Soy is garbage. Those studies promoting them by the way, are funded by similar corporations that make them.



I'm willing to bet that applies with all products 

It is up to the individual to research both camps and decide for him/herself. On that note no one in the last few posts has posted links to any definitive research.


----------



## Ascendant

Task said:
			
		

> I'm willing to bet that applies with all products
> 
> It is up to the individual to research both camps and decide for him/herself. On that note no one in the last few posts has posted links to any definitive research.



I did some searching on PubMed and other research databases, but like you said, everyone can do that for themselves.

I did find lots of stuff, but I'm not going to copy and paste everything I find, because there is probably equal material out there refuting it.

Debates like this are just a never ending cycle.


----------



## Task

Kratos said:
			
		

> Debates like this are just a never ending cycle.



I agree, very circular. I did read your links on SMR however. I had not heard of it until you posted it. I have a roller now and have tried it a couple times. I am still undecided, mostly because I don't like pain, but I will give it some more time and more dedication in the following weeks.


----------



## Ascendant

Task said:
			
		

> I agree, very circular. I did read your links on SMR however. I had not heard of it until you posted it. I have a roller now and have tried it a couple times. I am still undecided, mostly because I don't like pain, but I will give it some more time and more dedication in the following weeks.



The pain is from the knots lol. I just went through it with my legs recently. I hadn't squatted for a while and slacked on rolling/stretching my legs. I started squatting again a couple weeks ago and started the rolling/stretching again and I could barely roll my IT band and quads. Rolling over the knots was honestly excruciating. 

Once you work the knots out, though, it feels much better. Starting off, it's probably going to hurt, but if you're finding it that painful, trying playing around with the amount of pressure you're applying. Start light and work your way up.

It's a very, very useful tool.


----------



## canada94

Jebus said:
			
		

> Soy is garbage. Those studies promoting them by the way, are funded by similar corporations that make them.



Good to know, I'm glad I'm surrounded by genius's.
  
My information; http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/730691 study shows assistance from Soy after reemission of breast cancer
study by the Canadian Medical Association (definitely funded by "soy good"), NOT.

http://www.prostatecancer.ca/Prostate-Cancer/About-the-Prostate/Prevention.aspx ; Talks of soy and its deterrence of prostate cancer.

Then again a genius as your self knows the real truth.

Mike


----------



## Ascendant

*Geniuses.

Like I said, with debates such as these, there is ample information to be found supporting and disproving both sides.

That being said, just because something is beneficial in one area or for one purpose does not mean it is beneficial or can't detrimental in another.


----------



## canada94

Kratos said:
			
		

> *Geniuses.
> 
> Like I said, with debates such as these, there is ample information to be found supporting and disproving both sides.
> 
> That being said, just because something is beneficial in one area or for one purpose does not mean it is beneficial or can't detrimental in another.



Very very true, the belief that these studies are funded by soy companies has to be a complete joke. Just as meat is essential and important to our health it can be just as bad for us, so that is true.

Mike


----------



## PuckChaser

canada94 said:
			
		

> Good to know, I'm glad I'm surrounded by genius's.
> Then again a genius as your self knows the real truth.
> 
> Mike



You're probably walking a fine line here between being sarcastic and just flat out making personal attacks. There's a way you can point out someone is wrong without being a sarcastic #@$@$ about it.


----------



## canada94

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You're probably walking a fine line here between being sarcastic and just flat out making personal attacks. There's a way you can point out someone is wrong without being a sarcastic #@$@$ about it.



Im being sarcastic.

Mike


----------



## Ascendant

canada94 said:
			
		

> Very very true, the belief that these studies are funded by soy companies has to be a complete joke. Just as meat is essential and important to our health it can be just as bad for us, so that is true.
> 
> Mike



How would grass fed, free range meat bad for you?


----------



## canada94

Kratos said:
			
		

> How would grass fed, free range meat bad for you?



To much iron in your diet can be bad for you. But as of now i have a verbal warning because i can't help but always sound sarcastic and rude  sorry boys, 

Mike


----------



## Ascendant

canada94 said:
			
		

> To much iron in your diet can be bad for you. But as of now i have a verbal warning because i can't help but always sound sarcastic and rude  sorry boys,
> 
> Mike



You will never be able to eat enough meat in the run of a day for that to be a problem.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

canada94 said:
			
		

> To much iron in your diet can be bad for you. But as of now i have a verbal warning because i can't help but always sound sarcastic and rude  sorry boys,
> 
> Mike



Then you need to modify your posting style. A good rule is if your post will not add anything meaningful to the discussion at hand then don't post.

Milnet.Ca Staff


----------



## canada94

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Then you need to modify your posting style. A good rule is if your post will not add anything meaningful to the discussion at hand then don't post.
> 
> Milnet.Ca Staff



I understand, and am sorry. I don't want to be an enemy of this military family, especially when it means so much to me. 

Thank you for giving me a chance, 

Mike


----------



## Jebus

Kratos said:
			
		

> You will never be able to eat enough meat in the run of a day for that to be a problem.



+1.


----------



## Final

Kratos said:
			
		

> You will never be able to eat enough meat in the run of a day for that to be a problem.


After a bit of thought, an idea came to me on this subject.  It is in fact, quite easily possible to get to much of this.  Simply said, Multi-Vitamins.  Some people, like myself, do not get enough of their daily nutrition and end up taking supps to attempt a fix.  Perhaps after taking this supplement, a person goes on a meat eating binge.  They could theoretically get pretty close to overdose levels or reach it, no?


----------



## Ascendant

Final said:
			
		

> After a bit of thought, an idea came to me on this subject.  It is in fact, quite easily possible to get to much of this.  Simply said, Multi-Vitamins.  Some people, like myself, do not get enough of their daily nutrition and end up taking supps to attempt a fix.  Perhaps after taking this supplement, a person goes on a meat eating binge.  They could theoretically get pretty close to overdose levels or reach it, no?



I still doubt it, even with a multi-vitamin.

Plus, if you're a man, you should think about taking a multi-vitamin without iron.

Mine does not contain iron.

Again, the thought of too much iron has never crossed my mind.


----------



## Final

Kratos said:
			
		

> I still doubt it, even with a multi-vitamin.
> 
> Plus, if you're a man, you should think about taking a multi-vitamin without iron.
> 
> Mine does not contain iron.
> 
> Again, the thought of too much iron has never crossed my mind.


Well, It is possible to overdose on the multi-vitamins, but what's the point of having no iron in your vitamin?


----------



## Ascendant

Final said:
			
		

> Well, It is possible to overdose on the multi-vitamins, but what's the point of having no iron in your vitamin?



Of course it's possible. You'd have to take a lot of multivitamin pills. Who's going to look at the bottle, see that it says to take one per day, and take ten or fifteen?

Men and postmenopausal women should be wary of multis with iron in them. You could have just Googled it, but here are some things I pulled:



> Men absorb iron from the food that they eat, and once this iron is in the body it has essentially no way to get out. Women also absorb iron, however they are generally-though not completely- protected from excess iron accumulation through regular iron loss by way of menstrual blood (they lose this benefit after menopause)





> Men who eat red meats, iron rich whole grains and green leafy vegetables can probably meet their iron RDA



Basically, it's very easy to get it from your regular diet and you don't need any more.


----------



## Final

Kratos said:
			
		

> Of course it's possible. You'd have to take a lot of multivitamin pills. Who's going to look at the bottle, see that it says to take one per day, and take ten or fifteen?
> 
> Men and postmenopausal women should be wary of multis with iron in them. You could have just Googled it, but here are some things I pulled:
> 
> Basically, it's very easy to get it from your regular diet and you don't need any more.



Ah I see what you mean.  Well, I guess we are all working on our bodies in a different way.  Me, I dont eat much so Im quite sure Im not reaching any values at all..oh and..I always forget to take my pills..Woot haha


----------



## Ascendant

Final said:
			
		

> Ah I see what you mean.  Well, I guess we are all working on our bodies in a different way.  Me, I dont eat much so Im quite sure Im not reaching any values at all..oh and..I always forget to take my pills..Woot haha



I don't get the first statement as it pertains to this discussion.

I often forget to take my multivitamin, as well, but I don't really worry about it. Sometimes I forget whether or not I've taken one at breakfast, so I think about it and whatever side of the argument (yes or no) wins, I may or may not take one.

Then it's just five fish oil capsules and 2000 IUs of vitamin D.


----------



## Final

Kratos said:
			
		

> I don't get the first statement as it pertains to this discussion.


Some people are deficient in certain vitamins naturally and require an extra dose of whatever they're missing.  I guess I'm thinking in a negative form?  Yeah most likely..


----------



## bdave

Everyone is deficient  in pretty much all vitamins.
They're also deficient in protein, fat and carbs.
That's why we eat. If people are missing something, unless they have a legitimate reason (allergic, etc), then it's cause they have a poor diet.

It's really not that difficult:
Drink normal 2% milk.
Drink water - stay hydrated.
Eat eggs (the whole thing).
Eat lots of flesh (meat, poultry, fish, etc) with a generous portion of vegetables (beans, peas, corn, carrots, etc - large variety basically). This can be through steak, sausages, hamburgers, etc.
Alternate with pizza/pasta every now and then. 
Eat a variety of fruit.
Get some sun (for that vitamin D).
Spoil yourself every now and then.

Don't avoid fat - some vitamins are fat soluble only.
You can deal with this by eating food with healthy fat.
Fish and a variety of nuts do this well.

I know some women that eat little, avoid meat and are surprised that they are anemic and constantly exhausted.
Eating one leaf of lettuce a day with your 450 different pills is not "healthy".
Nothing wrong with taking supplementary pills - operative word being "supplementary". Supplementary to an already healthy diet.


----------



## Ascendant

bdave said:
			
		

> Everyone is deficient  in pretty much all vitamins.
> They're also deficient in protein, fat and carbs.
> That's why we eat. If people are missing something, unless they have a legitimate reason (allergic, etc), then it's cause they have a poor diet.
> 
> It's really not that difficult:
> Drink normal 2% milk.
> Drink water - stay hydrated.
> Eat eggs (the whole thing).
> Eat lots of flesh (meat, poultry, fish, etc) with a generous portion of vegetables (beans, peas, corn, carrots, etc - large variety basically). This can be through steak, sausages, hamburgers, etc.
> Alternate with pizza/pasta every now and then.
> Eat a variety of fruit.
> Get some sun (for that vitamin D).
> Spoil yourself every now and then.
> 
> Don't avoid fat - some vitamins are fat soluble only.
> You can deal with this by eating food with healthy fat.
> Fish and a variety of nuts do this well.
> 
> I know some women that eat little, avoid meat and are surprised that they are anemic and constantly exhausted.
> Eating one leaf of lettuce a day with your 450 different pills is not "healthy".
> Nothing wrong with taking supplementary pills - operative word being "supplementary". Supplementary to an already healthy diet.



Being deficient in something is not the same as needing to acquire something through diet.

- Why do you choose 2% milk? That's kind of arbitrary. Some people will drink homogenized, some will drink skim. 
- Although pizza and pasta are good, there's no need to ever eat either if you don't want to.
- All meats contain healthy fats.


----------



## bdave

My point was that many deficiencies are brought on by a poor diet. Adjusting your diet would take care of the deficiencies.

- 2 percent because it has more calories.
- I just didn't want to seem like I was saying you should only eat meat, always, forever.
- True that.


----------



## Ascendant

bdave said:
			
		

> My point was that many deficiencies are brought on by a poor diet. Adjusting your diet would take care of the deficiencies.
> 
> - 2 percent because it has more calories.
> - I just didn't want to seem like I was saying you should only eat meat, always, forever.
> - True that.



- If you're drinking milk for calories, you might as well go homogenized.
- I used to indulge in pizza quite often as post workout meal. Good stuff.


----------



## CEhopeful

For weight loss, avoid refined sugar and white flour. Eat lots and lots of vegetables, fish, nuts, milk, and some red meat. You Want to avoid processed food. Whole grains are good to some extent, but if weight loss is your goal go easy on them. You can get your energy from fruit and nuts, which are very effective if eaten 30-90 minutes before exercise.  Try to keep your meals small as well, but eat every 2-3 hours, this keeps your metabolism going. Also eat as soon as you get up, and start chugging that good ol H20. 

As far as running goes, if you suck at it, whatever, you have to start somewhere, do the run/ walk method, run a minute, walk a minute for 20 minutes three times a week.  Eventually building up your running time, and decreasing your walking time.

OR

Take it slow, I was recovering from severe shin splints, and was doing a really slow 1-mile run and got passed by an older woman(well she was probably 60+). Dont let seniors passing you get you down, just keep at it, and slowly build intensity and distance. Best of luck.


----------



## bdave

Kratos said:
			
		

> - If you're drinking milk for calories, you might as well go homogenized.
> - I used to indulge in pizza quite often as post workout meal. Good stuff.



Drinking milk for everything it contains. Many people, including myself, find it difficult to pack the calories. Should have clarified that


----------



## Ascendant

bdave said:
			
		

> Drinking milk for everything it contains. Many people, including myself, find it difficult to pack the calories. Should have clarified that



Exactly. That's why I said why drink 2% when you can go to the next level up and get 3.25%


----------



## JB 11 11

If you suck at running and its your cardio that is bad, get on a bike and giver'. Nothing better for improving lung capacity than epic hill climbs! (well... maybe there is, but these will definitely do the trick as well). Look at Lance Armstrong.... drugs or no drugs the guy flies up mountains!

If its the legs that are crap, then NotRambo's advice is the way to go. Little by little you will improve. Improvement in Physical fitness is often frustrating to gauge in yourself. It takes time and you also see your self everyday, so actually "seeing" results isn't always easy. I think it has been said before, but I'll re-iterate: When you start your training, take a picture of yourself every few weeks or every month. Same stance, same location. Within 3 months time, if you trained hard, you WILL see results.


----------



## Jebus

You should also include Squats in your workout. Resistance training is just, so damn good.


----------



## Danny_C

For anyone looking for a running program and owns an iPod/iPhone, I highly recommend downloading the Couch to 5K app (http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml). It’s a great tool and keeps track of everything for you. A voice will speak over your music and tell you when to run or walk.

I’m currently on the ninth week and can run 5K without any trouble. I usually throw in sprints near the end to push myself. When I started I could barely run for 3 min straight. I found this app while searching other fitness threads. There is a lot of great information on this site if you have the time to search around.

Also, I found the 300 workout to be helpful and something you can do before bed. It is 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups and 100 squats. Example: Do push-ups until failure. Take a short break and continue until you reach 100. It could take you 5 or 30 min depending on your level and then move on to sit-ups. Just make sure you don’t cheat yourself and keep proper form.


----------



## Chilme

Go to the Army Run website below and you will find a beginner and advanced running program for both a 5K and half marathon.  For those with no direction, it is a good start.

http://armyrun.ca/en/raceinfo/bootcamp.aspx


----------



## Iron Man

I have read this and many other threads, and haven't quite found what I am looking for..... I have my application in (hoping for Combat Engineer, reserves) and have been training hard, my physical is in a week. I have included pull ups, pushups, sit-ups, TRX (basically resistance training) and a lot of running into my workouts. My issue is that I seem to be consistently loosing weight, but understand that I am already lean and if anything am trying to put on weight or mass. I signed myself up for my first half marathon to take place this August, to help with training and motivation, but am wondering if I should drop that because of the weight loss? If (and when) I get the call for BMQ, I don't want to be a bean pole because I've been running so much, but on the other hand I want to be in the best shape possible. To give you an idea I am 6' and currently 165lbs. used to be 175lbs. I would really appreciate advice from someone who has been there. Thank you in advance.


----------



## phillip

@Ironman 

I'm not thin myself, 5'9 171lbs, but I've read that if you are lean and want to put on muscle mass (as long as you are adequately strength training) that the GOMAD method works pretty good. GOMAD standing for Gallon Of Milk A Day. doesn't have to be a gallon, but for example my armwrestling coach drinks a liter of milk every day at lunch time. 

you can also combine that with protein powder. I don't want to recommend any websites or brands because I'm not sure if that's against forum policy, but as long as whatever protein you're getting is a whey isolate and has little to no sugar, you should be good. it's the best way to get the protein you need for your muscles without a lot of padded calories in carbs and sugar. 

best of luck!


----------



## OldSolduer

IMO stay away from supplements. I understand that they can and do build lean muscle mass...however....if you are in FOB Middle of Nowhere.....and there is no CANEX or PX.......and you have IMPs to live on.....then what?
Body builders have a hard time in the field. Their lives revolve around training, eating and resting to build that mass. In the field, that don't happen.


----------



## Iron Man

Thank you for the advise guys. Sorry to be fussy, but I am looking for advice on running vs. weight gain. I don't expect, nor do I want to get "huge" but should I keep up with the 1/2 marathon training and try to maintain weight, or ditch that, still get cardio in, but concentrate more on the strength training? I know they are both important but what should I be concentrating on for BMQ? I want to be as ready as I can be and if any advice will help I will gladly take it. ushup: Thanks again.



Mr. Seggie, thank you for your sacrifice. May your son Michael Rest in Peace.


----------



## ballz

Iron Man said:
			
		

> Thank you for the advise guys. Sorry to be fussy, but I am looking for advice on running vs. weight gain. I don't expect, nor do I want to get "huge" but should I keep up with the 1/2 marathon training and try to maintain weight, or ditch that, still get cardio in, but concentrate more on the strength training? I know they are both important but what should I be concentrating on for BMQ? I want to be as ready as I can be and if any advice will help I will gladly take it. ushup: Thanks again.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Seggie, thank you for your sacrifice. May your son Michael Rest in Peace.



I don't know what your 1/2 marathon training entails, how far/long you are running and how often, but...

I trust you realize that running is sort of contradictory to gaining weight, especially since you seem to have a high metabolism anyway. 

If what you are wondering is how to gain weight, but also keep your cardio at an acceptable level at the same time, then I would say (purely my opinion) that an 8km run (running for time) 3 times a week will help you maintain at least "above average" cardio... If you can run 8km in 40 minutes I would guess you'd be in the top 15% of your course for running period.

This "8km, 40 min" is based on the fitness levels I've seen from my BMOQ and CAP courses. That's it, that's all.

If you aren't running that much already, well... increasing your running to that will obviously only increase the weight loss effect.


----------



## a_majoor

Interesting. Targeting these muscles to improve performance by 10-15% is a huge gain.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/training-breathing-muscles-can-boost.html



> *Training breathing muscles can boost sports performance by 15%*
> 
> Training the muscles responsible for breathing in – inspiratory muscles – can improve performance by 15 per cent, meaning a runner can run for longer and a swimmer can swim faster, for example.
> 
> Dr Mitch Lomax, of the university’s Department of Sport and Exercise Science, has found that inspiratory muscle training and inspiratory warm-up exercises both boost performance, but when combined they can improve a sportsman or woman’s performance even more. Her work is published in the Journal of Sports Science.
> 
> Several other universities have published studies that show similar results
> 
> An Indiana University study found that strengthening inspiratory muscles by performing daily breathing exercises for six weeks significantly reduced the amount of oxygen these same breathing muscles required during exercise, possibly making more oxygen available for other muscles. IMT involves the use of a hand-held device that provides resistance as one inhales through it, requiring greater use of inspiratory muscles. For half of the study participants, the IMT device was set to a level that provided resistance as the subjects took a fast forceful breath in. For six weeks they took 30 breaths at this setting twice a day. The cyclists in the control group did the same exercises with the IMT adjusted to a minimal level.
> 
> Dr Lomax said: “People overlook that the muscles responsible for breathing are the same as other muscles and training or warming them up before playing sport means you will perform better. Doing both training and warming up is the best of all.
> 
> “Anecdotally I know some athletes use inspiratory muscle training devices but they don’t acknowledge it – they know it gives them an edge over their competitors and they don’t want to let on.
> 
> “Any little bit of advantage you can get legally as a sportsman or woman is worth doing and training and warming up the muscles responsible for breathing in is incredibly easy to do.”
> 
> In the study, Dr Lomax used an inspiratory muscle training device which works in a similar way to other resistance training devices to build muscle strength. An athlete doing training would use such a device to do one set of 30 breaths twice a day. For inspiratory muscle warm-up, because the power-boosting effect of warm-up exercises typically dissipates within half an hour, an athlete would use the device to do two sets of 30 breaths immediately before the sporting event for best results.
> 
> She said: “We know training and warm-ups work, but we don’t yet know the best way of incorporating such training into an athlete’s entire training schedule over a year.”
> 
> She also said it is important athletes and coaches use the device correctly because, as with any other sports equipment, if used incorrectly it could do more harm than good. “If it isn’t done right, there is the risk of hyperventilating and passing out. Technique with these devices really matters because they can also cause injury or strain if they aren’t used correctly.”
> 
> There are various devices available for inspiratory muscle training and warm-up, costing from £50-£300 but costs could be reduced if sports teams shared the device and each person bought just a mouthpiece for their own use. There could be other ways of training the muscles, without the use of a gadget or device, but because so many muscles are involved with breathing in, it would be extremely difficult to train them all to optimum level.
> 
> Dr Lomax said: “The weakest muscle determines the point of exhaustion, so if you have trained some inspiratory muscles, the one you haven’t trained will be what limits this group of muscles from performing better or for longer and dictates the point at which your body gives up.
> 
> “The body is designed so the muscles responsible for breathing and the heart will take priority for oxygenated blood over limb muscles, meaning the rest of the body – legs and arms – will be the first to “go” causing premature fatigue.”
> 
> Dr Lomax tested 12 runners over six weeks and found that those who did inspiratory muscle warm-ups improved their times by 5-7 per cent; those who did inspiratory muscle training improved their times by 12 per cent; and those who did both improved by 15 per cent. Dr Lomax said those were very conservative figures and did not rule out athletes making even greater gains. A sample size of 12 is a typical sample in sport and exercise physiological studies.


----------



## StevenPeece

This is an interesting thread.  I guess its all about finding out what works for you.


Steve


----------



## JB 11 11

Just a little update with what I've been incorporating in my routine: Lately, I've been working a session every other day into my week where I will run on the treadmill on +2 incline at about 9.5km/h for 30 min and then for another 10min I'll do 2min on and then 30 seconds straight of non-stop heavy bag stand up. Anything goes as long as you DO NOT STOP for the entire 30 seconds and then hop back on the treadmill (which is still running) and repeat.

After 10min. of this on top of the 30min run, you'll be shattered >! Its awesome! I've been getting good results so I thought I'd share.


----------



## Muttenthaler

This is a reply for every person who posted on here.

Do these things:

Cardio:  High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) - Look it up and do it instead of typical endurance training (useless).
Strength / Endurance: Circuit training is ALWAYS best. Do some research on full-body workouts and apply your new-found knowledge!
Stretching / Flexibility / Core: Just two words; Yoga, and Pilates. MY bench alone went from 135 to 365 in two months doing Yoga, and Pilates. Not to mention the incredible flexibility and renage of motion your joints will love you for. You will be much less injury-prone.
Nutrition:  Fruits, Veggies, Lean Meats, and Whole Grains. Every Meal.


----------



## shreenan

I'm wondering how I would improve my hand grip score or how would I practice and running on a treadmill what level/setting should I run on or work towards.


Thanks


----------



## Jarnhamar

Muttenthaler said:
			
		

> Stretching / Flexibility / Core: Just two words; Yoga, and Pilates. MY bench alone went from 135 to 365 in two months doing Yoga, and Pilates.



So you almost tripled your bench, in two months, by doing yoga? What?

Shreenan,


> I'm wondering how I would improve my hand grip score or how would I practice and running on a treadmill what level/setting should I run on or work towards.


Handgrip is easy, go to a store with weights or even walmart and buy one of those little handgrip exercise things.

How would you practice on a treadmill?  It's pretty straight forward 

Running on roads (paths trails etc..) is much better than on a treadmill. Treadmills basically pull you along. I've got a friend who runs on one every night. Motors pretty good on it too. On the street they crumble. I did the same too.

Try this, it knocked a lot of time off my 5K and 10K run.
Run full speed (monsters are after you) for 30 seconds, then walk 30 seconds. Then run for 30 seconds and walk 30 seconds. (do this 5 times)
Next move the times up to a minute. Run a minute walk a minute run a minute walk a minute, 5 times. 
Then bring it up to 2 minutes, again do the ratio 5 times.  You'll be gassed at this point so you'll need to pace your 2 minutes of running a little bit but still, your pace should be running away from something scary.  Do that 3 times a week and you'll notice a huge difference.


----------



## KeoughJ

Hey guys, first post here, long time lurker. 

Anywho, my goal is in April to start the recruiting process and by then I want to be as physically ready for Basic as possible in that amount of time. I used to be very seditary up until a month and a half ago. I go for 5km runs almost every other day now, eat well (mostly fruits and veggies and chicken as meat). Yesterday I signed up for a gym and I was a bit overwhelmed, luckly I had a buddy so I just did his upperbody routine. My goal is to be 170 come April, down from 200 atm, and be in the best shape possible in the small amount of time. 

So what would be the best routine for myself to do? Any pointers when getting started would be very helpful. 

Thanks


----------



## KeoughJ

I did some searching around and found this thread... http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/84789/post-824985.html#msg824985

I think the first reply sound alright, is there anything that I should Alter?


----------



## Jarnhamar

This workout is awesome
Do it for 6 weeks.
I'm on week 6 and I'm going to start another 6

Do some kind of cardio every second day.
Running, swimming, mountain tossing 

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ryan-hughes-muscle-building-program.html


----------



## camouflauge

If you need a motivation you can see this vid, it helped me a lot 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj1GAQDCPiY&feature=player_embedded


----------



## jparkin

cypres78 said:
			
		

> Don't focus on a scale to judge your fitness..it's useless. Focus on increasing time, reps weight etc in whatever program you choose. *Log everything*.



This is great advice. Keeping a logbook of all your serious workouts helps you set goals and watch yourself progress! Of course nothing happens overnight, but in the long term you really get a sense of achievement when you can look back to what you started at.


----------



## DogFighting101

To add to the scale comment, just remember that the more excess you have, the more you have to drag along, so although the scale may not indicate your fitness level, your weight will still have an effect on your cardio.

As a side note, if you're looking to improve your cardio, as in VO2 max, try HIIT training. It consist of alternating in between long intervals of High Intensity Training and short intervals of rest/low intensity training. 

IE, walk at a 3.0-3.5 miles/h pace for 1 min, then run at a 8.5-9.0 miles/h for 1-2 min, alternate while slowly increasing your running time. 

On the weights side, building endurance and strength, combine antagonist movements in super sets and take about 30-45 sec in between sets. 

IE, set of 10-12 reps on the bicep curls then immediately run over to a set of 10-12 reps on the skullcrushers or triceps push downs, then take a 30-45 sec break, then repeat for a total of 4 sets, switch to another exercise in the same muscle groups and repeat.

I guarantee after you will feel it after every work out and you will notice a improvement in all fields within a few weeks. I guarantee you will want to puke the first few times you do it, you just have to push yourself through it and keep on your times (you can cheat a little at first to get used to the intensity).

Another concept to develop both VO2max and Strength/Endurance is the DTP program, made famous by bodybuilding.com chief editor Kris Gethin. This program consist of doing a workout with only 1 compound exercise (aka bench press, full squats, deadlifts, basically an exercise which works multiple muscle groups) and doing pyramid sets of 50-30-15-8-4-8-15-30-50 (somewhere along that range) with minimal rest in between the sets and increasing your weights for each set, so that when you get to your 4 set you should be around your maximum weight capabilities, then you pyramid down the weights until you get to your 50 reps again. This training is a little more advance but i guarantee you will ache in areas you never knew you had muscles.

As for me, i currently follow something a little more oriented towards building size as I was way underweight (sitting around 105 lbs at 5.8, now at 170 after 2 years), which is basically a HIIT training on the cardio and a Pyramid program on the weights with target training (focussing on 1 muscle group per workout) and going as heavy as i can on the weights.

I suggest taking a look at this website, contains allot of good workout programs, from beginner to advance, it has everything. Most of them are written by professional trainers or bodybuilders and the best part is that its free.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/workout.htm

my :2c:


----------



## SentryMAn

I'll only add this part:

I did classes to get my but in shape, Body Training Systems and Les Mills do some great fitness classes built on rounding out your entire fitness.  I went from being able to do about 8-9 push-ups to over 30 in about 6 months of doing the classes 3+ times a week and doing cardio along with it.

Best of Luck!


----------



## KeoughJ

DogFighting101 said:
			
		

> To add to the scale comment, just remember that the more excess you have, the more you have to drag along, so although the scale may not indicate your fitness level, your weight will still have an effect on your cardio.
> 
> As a side note, if you're looking to improve your cardio, as in VO2 max, try HIIT training. It consist of alternating in between long intervals of High Intensity Training and short intervals of rest/low intensity training.
> 
> IE, walk at a 3.0-3.5 miles/h pace for 1 min, then run at a 8.5-9.0 miles/h for 1-2 min, alternate while slowly increasing your running time.
> 
> On the weights side, building endurance and strength, combine antagonist movements in super sets and take about 30-45 sec in between sets.
> 
> IE, set of 10-12 reps on the bicep curls then immediately run over to a set of 10-12 reps on the skullcrushers or triceps push downs, then take a 30-45 sec break, then repeat for a total of 4 sets, switch to another exercise in the same muscle groups and repeat.
> 
> I guarantee after you will feel it after every work out and you will notice a improvement in all fields within a few weeks. I guarantee you will want to puke the first few times you do it, you just have to push yourself through it and keep on your times (you can cheat a little at first to get used to the intensity).
> 
> Another concept to develop both VO2max and Strength/Endurance is the DTP program, made famous by bodybuilding.com chief editor Kris Gethin. This program consist of doing a workout with only 1 compound exercise (aka bench press, full squats, deadlifts, basically an exercise which works multiple muscle groups) and doing pyramid sets of 50-30-15-8-4-8-15-30-50 (somewhere along that range) with minimal rest in between the sets and increasing your weights for each set, so that when you get to your 4 set you should be around your maximum weight capabilities, then you pyramid down the weights until you get to your 50 reps again. This training is a little more advance but i guarantee you will ache in areas you never knew you had muscles.
> 
> As for me, i currently follow something a little more oriented towards building size as I was way underweight (sitting around 105 lbs at 5.8, now at 170 after 2 years), which is basically a HIIT training on the cardio and a Pyramid program on the weights with target training (focussing on 1 muscle group per workout) and going as heavy as i can on the weights.
> 
> I suggest taking a look at this website, contains allot of good workout programs, from beginner to advance, it has everything. Most of them are written by professional trainers or bodybuilders and the best part is that its free.
> 
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/workout.htm
> 
> my :2c:



Thanks for the advice man, much appreciated. Its hard to really have a starting ground when there are so many different workouts you can do, and don't want to mess it up. I have a friend thats let me copy cat his workouts this last week and I'm certainly feeling them. Everywhere. 

I was looking at HIIT prior and was thinking about doing that 5 times a week and then just a 5km run the other two days. I'm not noticing that much of a decrease in fat accumulation around my stomach, even tho I run 5km 4-5 times a week and now starting at a gym where as prior I sat at a computer most of the time and ate shit. So I shall give it a shot when my legs don't hurt as much.


Also thanks for the log tip guys, Surprisingly helpful.


----------



## ballz

KeoughJ said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice man, much appreciated. Its hard to really have a starting ground when there are so many different workouts you can do, and don't want to mess it up. I have a friend thats let me copy cat his workouts this last week and I'm certainly feeling them. Everywhere.
> 
> I was looking at HIIT prior and was thinking about doing that 5 times a week and then just a 5km run the other two days. I'm not noticing that much of a decrease in fat accumulation around my stomach, even tho I run 5km 4-5 times a week and now starting at a gym where as prior I sat at a computer most of the time and ate crap. So I shall give it a shot when my legs don't hurt as much.
> 
> 
> Also thanks for the log tip guys, Surprisingly helpful.



Don't do HIIT 5 times a week, that's way too much. HIIT is pretty hard on the body, especially if you are overweight (I have no idea if you are overweight or not, but since you want to lose 30 lbs I'll assume you think you are). You need rest after HIIT training in order to make gains. If you do 5 sessions a week you'll plateau pretty quick.

If you're not losing weight any more (and if that's your goal), your body has probably adjusted and is quite capable of running 5km at your current weight. To fix this start running longer distances. I usually don't do HIIT and cardio together (I train in phases), but if you're going to do both, try cardio twice a week and HIIT twice a week (aka off - HIIT - cardio - off - HIIT - cardio - off).

Personally, I agree with the "don't worry about the scale" comment. When I'm training for courses, I'm not worried about my weight or my physique, I'm only worried about setting fitness goals that are going to ensure I will succeed, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter how much you weigh or how you look, if you can run 5km in less than 20 min or 8km in less than 40 minutes, no one is going suggest you're not fit.

So for basic training, I would set these goals
5km in ~23 min
8km in ~40 min
30 push-ups(chest to the floor, perfect form) push-ups
45 sit-ups in 60 seconds
5 chin ups

And if you were around 185 lbs, I would say
a 185 lb bench press
a 250 lb squat
a 275 lb deadlift

If you can accomplish those things before you go away, you will have a good well-rounded fitness base and you should have no problems accomplishing the physical things you need to accomplish at basic (such as obstacle courses, the BFT, and just everyday PT). Now, depending on what your trade is, you will want to surpass those goals because the courses after basic will get a lot more physically demanding than a BFT.


----------



## DogFighting101

ballz said:
			
		

> Don't do HIIT 5 times a week, that's way too much. HIIT is pretty hard on the body, especially if you are overweight (I have no idea if you are overweight or not, but since you want to lose 30 lbs I'll assume you think you are). You need rest after HIIT training in order to make gains. If you do 5 sessions a week you'll plateau pretty quick.
> 
> If you're not losing weight any more (and if that's your goal), your body has probably adjusted and is quite capable of running 5km at your current weight. To fix this start running longer distances. I usually don't do HIIT and cardio together (I train in phases), but if you're going to do both, try cardio twice a week and HIIT twice a week (aka off - HIIT - cardio - off - HIIT - cardio - off).
> 
> Personally, I agree with the "don't worry about the scale" comment. When I'm training for courses, I'm not worried about my weight or my physique, I'm only worried about setting fitness goals that are going to ensure I will succeed, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter how much you weigh or how you look, if you can run 5km in less than 20 min or 8km in less than 40 minutes, no one is going suggest you're not fit.
> 
> So for basic training, I would set these goals
> 5km in ~23 min
> 8km in ~40 min
> 30 push-ups(chest to the floor, perfect form) push-ups
> 45 sit-ups in 60 seconds
> 5 chin ups
> 
> And if you were around 185 lbs, I would say
> a 185 lb bench press
> a 250 lb squat
> a 275 lb deadlift
> 
> If you can accomplish those things before you go away, you will have a good well-rounded fitness base and you should have no problems accomplishing the physical things you need to accomplish at basic (such as obstacle courses, the BFT, and just everyday PT). Now, depending on what your trade is, you will want to surpass those goals because the courses after basic will get a lot more physically demanding than a BFT.



Agreed on the HIIT comment. Leave at least 1 day in between high intensity trainings. You wont gain strength or lose weight at the gym either, that's only about 10% of it. The real gits of it is how well you maintain your nutrition and making sure you get enough rest to let your muscles heal. 

Especially if this is your first time, take it real easy for the first 4-5 weeks, maybe like 3-4 strength training over a 7 day period, the cardio you can do as much as you want tho, but the "off - HIIT - cardio - off - HIIT - cardio - off" seems like a good start. 

You just have to make sure that you don't Overtrain, what i mean by that is lifting and pumping iron, w/o proper rest and eating well, to the point where you muscle fibers will actually break themselves down to provide you with energy, when this occurs the fibers get replaced by scar tissue (not a good thing, cause scar tissue is basically dead). I know allot of people who killed it in the gym every single day but never had any gains, and that's because the weren't getting enough rest and not eating properly. If you "Overtrain" you can potentially really hurt your muscles. 

Also you'll notice gains fast within the first 2 months or so, don't get discouraged once it slows down because it will.


----------



## m.k

Even though everything you need to know is in the great above posts I'll still toss in my  :2c:
Most important things are a well balanced healthy diet, proper rest for muscle recovery (off days, good night's sleep) and an even, balanced weekly workout plan. IE don't be a curl monkey 

Get a daytimer or something and try to get into the habit of logging everything, for the first little while at least.


----------



## nik214

Recently started running to get into better shape for my testing. Off the bat I ran a 10:30 2.4 km which is not amazing by any means I am just showing my level of fitness. My question is: Would it benefit me to go on runs upwards of 10 km? or should I keep my focus on getting faster at distances shorter than 10 km? Thanks.


----------



## ballz

You will definitely want to be able to run longer distances than that. The key is varying you distance/intensity/time.

If you run 5km once a week at your fastest, then a low 10-15km once a week (the distance should tire you out, not the pace), with a day of high-intensity intervals, you will end up with a better 5km time than if you were just running 5km 3x a week

10.30 for 2.4km is a good start if you're not into running by the way, so if you keep running you should do fairly well at it.


----------



## nik214

My goals are just to get in great shape all round. I have applied for a reserve unit so I believe the cardiovascular test is the beep test. 

Ballz: Thanks for the advice. I am going to do a couple more 5 km runs and include intervals; then try and work my way up to longer distances.


----------



## nik214

Thanks for the link


----------



## RyaeC

ballz said:
			
		

> So for basic training, I would set these goals
> 5km in ~23 min
> 8km in ~40 min
> 30 push-ups(chest to the floor, perfect form) push-ups
> 45 sit-ups in 60 seconds
> 5 chin ups
> 
> And if you were around 185 lbs, I would say
> a 185 lb bench press
> a 250 lb squat
> a 275 lb deadlift




Can anyone set some goals like the (above) goals, but for a woman? 145lbs 5'6.


----------



## Jarnhamar

RyaeC said:
			
		

> Can anyone set some goals like the (above) goals, but for a woman? 145lbs 5'6.




5km in ~23 min
8km in ~40 min
30 push-ups(chest to the floor, perfect form) push-ups
45 sit-ups in 60 seconds
5 chin ups


a 100 lb bench press
a 240 lb squat
a 180 lb deadlift


----------



## MJP

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> a 100 lb bench press
> a 240 lb squat
> a 180 lb deadlift



It is usually better to use ratios of body weight (Bwt) for people rather than give arbitrary numbers.  I assume you saying that these are 1RM numbers (1 repetition maximums).  Arguable as well one should be able to deadlift more than they squat.

In that case;

A decent squat weight goal is Bwt - 1 1/2 Bwt

Bench would be 3/4 to bwt

Deadlift Bwt - 1 3/4 bwt


Ideally you will be well served in the military by achieving the goals that both Ballz and OZ mentioned first. 

5km in ~23 min
8km in ~40 min
30 push-ups(chest to the floor, perfect form) push-ups
45 sit-ups in 60 seconds
5 chin ups

These are excellent goals and very achievable for both men and women.


----------



## Jarnhamar

MJP said:
			
		

> Bench would be 3/4 to bwt



I think benching your own body weight is a good starting goal then working up to 1 and a halfish times your body weight.  ie at 175-180 my goal is 275


----------



## THINKBIG

Hello,  I find a nice book online last week that I would like to share with all of you I was searching on youtube on Paleo diet and I found this:  This is very long but it is great stuff.  I seriously think that book with help a lot of people in the FC.  It could be a future tool for PSP staff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdJFbjWHEU

Book : ( Body by Science ), I read it all as a french men it was easy to read.  You must read it all to understand.  DO not just read the work out you will not get every tool you need to succeed in your training.

I am giving a try to this work out + my sport biking and diving.  I stop running training because at long term it is bad for your joints. I use to run my 2.4 km in 8 min.

Any comment or help ... I will be more than happy to put you in the good direction.


----------



## daftandbarmy

Here's a hint: the best workouts are not in the gym. Go outside, go far, go fast!


----------



## MJP

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I think benching your own body weight is a good starting goal then working up to 1 and a halfish times your body weight.  ie at 175-180 my goal is 275



Sure for a male yes, but you were giving a recommendation for a female who have different musculature physiology than males do.  Their lifts will for most females tend to be lower and therefore good strength programs and coaches usually have different goals for males and females.

However I will stand by that the first part regarding good running, push-ups, chin ups etc is more vital than lifting big numbers.  Like DaftandBarmy said there are great options outside of the gym and building that core ability is crucial to long term fitness


----------



## Jarnhamar

MJP said:
			
		

> Sure for a male yes, but you were giving a recommendation for a female who have different musculature physiology than males do.



I'm not built for running but the army makes me  ;D

I hear you though.


----------



## THINKBIG

http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/68249.25.html


----------



## ballz

MJP said:
			
		

> A decent squat weight goal is Bwt - 1 1/2 Bwt
> 
> Bench would be 3/4 to bwt
> 
> Deadlift Bwt - 1 3/4 bwt



I agree with those bwt ratios, but for people trying to get ready to go to "x" course/training/competition/etc I usually suggest a little lighter for deadlifts and squats since they are limited by time and wouldn't want them to start going heavy too early and start using poor form (which is what I always did, trying to go too heavy too fast).


----------



## The_Falcon

Mark Rippetoe a noted author and considered an authority on strength/barbell training published a guidline for Men/Womens strengths standards to use a guide to measure ones ability/progress.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf


----------



## MJP

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Mark Rippetoe a noted author and considered an authority on strength/barbell training published a guidline for Men/Womens strengths standards to use a guide to measure ones ability/progress.
> 
> http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf



That is a pretty sweet resource.


----------



## The_Falcon

Also just to point out those numbers are for people who aren't powerlifters, use no gear, and don't take steroids.


----------



## jpr

For anybody who is concerned about a lack of grip strength, I would like to introduce you to my friend, the farmer's carry:





If you have access to a gym, just pick up some dumbells (they should be _heavy_) and take a tour of the gym.
Be sure to nod and smile politely at the people who look at you funny  :nod:
This exercise will build grip strength, forearm strength and size, and serve as a good assistance exercise for the deadlift (if deadlifts are part of your training regimen)


----------



## nik214

I do that farmers carry once in a while. Love the burn in the forearms after about 50 feet ;D


----------



## Jarry

You can buy "Insanity" program and start doing 1 day at the gym and 1 day insanity at home its really nice , every guys at my fire departement is on this and we all like it, its really change your training routine and its greatly help to improve vo2 max.


----------



## PuckChaser

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Mark Rippetoe a noted author and considered an authority on strength/barbell training published a guidline for Men/Womens strengths standards to use a guide to measure ones ability/progress.
> 
> http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf



Thanks for the link! Finally a decent standard I can achieve without having to compare to 240lb people.


----------



## KanD

*Note*: The URLs posted in this reply are not WFS (profanity & excessive use of sarcasm)



			
				Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Also just to point out those numbers are for people who aren't powerlifters, use no gear, and don't take steroids.



Those numbers were observations made by Rip training clients/athletes at his Wichita Falls Athletic Club. Rip's simplest explanation as to why he no longer even advocates those numbers can be found here (http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=30150&p=424027#post424027), and for the lengthier discussion, read here (http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=30150&page=1) and the article titled 'The Novice Effect' (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/the_novice_effect)


Just my two cents, there is nothing wrong with using an appropriate weightlifting belt (http://70sbig.com/blog/2010/04/more-reasons-for-wearing-a-belt/) as long as it does not becomes a crutch. Go belt-less for your warm up sets, belt-up for max effort sets.


----------



## The_Falcon

I am aware Rip no longer really supports his own chart, however it can still be a useful (and more importantly quick) reference guide to gauge ones own progress and abilities even if he doesn't think so anymore.

As for a belt, meh my thought is if I need to lift something heavy in real life I won't have a belt near me, so I train without one.  I have a 315 max squat and 430 deadlift, no belt.  As long I keep making progress without one, I am not going to wear one.


----------



## KanD

Good lifts! Are you doing some form of linear progression?

On a different note, crossfit endurance has added 'Ruck' as a sport. They describe their 'military prescription' here (http://www.crossfitendurance.com/military-prescription). 

Cheers,
Kan


----------



## The_Falcon

KanD said:
			
		

> Good lifts! Are you doing some form of linear progression?
> 
> On a different note, crossfit endurance has added 'Ruck' as a sport. They describe their 'military prescription' here (http://www.crossfitendurance.com/military-prescription).
> 
> Cheers,
> Kan



5/3/1 Powerlifting Version+Strongmanwod&Heavy Ass Metcons, with the odd pure cardio (usually HIIT running/rowing) for good measure.


----------



## Jarnhamar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdd31Q9PqA&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## Karate

If you want a good work out site this is the site / routine I have been using and I've gained about 9 pounds of muscle already..standing at about 6'3, 214 pounds.

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/7-intermediate-4-day-split-workout.html

The great thing is - especially about the author of that program - is that he has a beginner to intermediate plan which is easy to follow. Currently, I am on the intermediate stage and I have been using that as my primary routine.

You can find some alternative ones as well, its very in-depth and it even shows you how to do the work outs if you click on the names of them, it'll show a video along with some tips on the bottom.


----------



## cloudy

bodybuilding.com


----------



## The_Falcon

Karate said:
			
		

> If you want a good work out site this is the site / routine I have been using and I've gained about 9 pounds of muscle already..standing at about 6'3, 214 pounds.
> 
> http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/7-intermediate-4-day-split-workout.html
> 
> The great thing is - especially about the author of that program - is that he has a beginner to intermediate plan which is easy to follow. Currently, I am on the intermediate stage and I have been using that as my primary routine.
> 
> You can find some alternative ones as well, its very in-depth and it even shows you how to do the work outs if you click on the names of them, it'll show a video along with some tips on the bottom.



Meh, could be pulled from (and looks like it was) any random magazine "bro/bb" workout.  Where is the progression?  How much weight do you use?  72 reps of Bicep curls and Tricep extensions?  What kills it for me (and shows the authors lack of knowledge, why someone should pass on this) 1) He has squats under "quads".  Squats are a POSTERIOR chain exercise.  Your quads  involvement  is primarily extension of knee joint.  Its your Glutes/Hamstrings/Adductors that do the bulk of the work in a back squat via extension of the hip joint (front squats, the quads become more involved due to the placement of the weight in front of you, but it still not a quad dominant exercise).  If your ass ain't sore after a squat workout, your workout sucked.  2) he has deadlifts under "back"  exercise.  Again its a POSTERIOR chain movement.  This time hamstrings/glues/spinal erectors move the hips, while the entire core (if you are going heavy enough), as well as the muscle groups in the upper back, isometrically contract.  Also attemping to do deadlifts after 72 reps of rowing is just f'ing dumb if you are actually trying to get stronger and build muscle.  If you want to gain strength, and muscle mass, ALWAYS ALWAYS do squats and deadlifts FIRST, as they allow you to move the most weight (provided you do them properly of course), due to involving the largest muscle groups (and thus eliciting a higher testosterone release) in your body.    If you are serious about wanting to get big and strong, ignore most of these bloody "magazine' workouts, read Rippetoe, Wendler, Tate, Simmons.  Follow their advice and programming.


----------



## daftandbarmy

Try the daftandbarmy program. I've just returned from the latest installment:

-Find a big hill with about 500-1000 vertical feet of ascent
-Put on a 40lb pack and take lots of water
-Go up and down and up and down and up and down etc for at least an hour and a half
-Stop at Timmies on the way home for an XL double double and a bagel
-Repeat every other day, rain or shine

Downside: No mirrors, or spandex clad babes, to observe your form and rippling pecs
Upside: Far more relevant to 'army training, sir', especially the Timmy stop  ;D


----------



## The_Falcon

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Try the daftandbarmy program. I've just returned from the latest installment:
> 
> -Find a big hill with about 500-1000 vertical feet of ascent
> -Put on a 40lb pack and take lots of water
> -Go up and down and up and down and up and down etc for at least an hour and a half
> -Stop at Timmies on the way home for an XL double double and a bagel
> -Repeat every other day, rain or shine
> 
> Downside: No mirrors, or spandex clad babes, to observe your form and rippling pecs
> Upside: Far more relevant to 'army training, sir', especially the Timmy stop  ;D



Hey nothing wrong with girls in spandex/lulu lemon yoga pants (or even better shorts), so long as they are strong and willing to work and not be fluffy gym bunnies.


----------



## aesop081

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Try the daftandbarmy program. I've just returned from the latest installment:
> 
> -Find a big hill with about 500-1000 vertical feet of ascent
> -Put on a 40lb pack and take lots of water
> -Go up and down and up and down and up and down etc for at least an hour and a half
> -Stop at Timmies on the way home for an XL double double and a bagel
> -Repeat every other day, rain or shine
> 
> Downside: No mirrors, or spandex clad babes, to observe your form and rippling pecs
> Upside: Far more relevant to 'army training, sir', especially the Timmy stop  ;D



And here i thought i had it made with "run until i'm tired and then stop for a bearclaw".


----------



## GAP

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Hey nothing wrong with girls in spandex/lulu lemon yoga pants (or even better shorts), so long as they are strong and willing to work and not be fluffy gym bunnies.



hmmmm......and the problem with fluffy gym bunnies is.......?


----------



## The_Falcon

GAP said:
			
		

> hmmmm......and the problem with fluffy gym bunnies is.......?



They aren't Camille or like Camille  ;D


----------



## KanD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWnLLuE2MjU

I prefer Lydia's snatch  :nod:


----------



## daftandbarmy

One major malfunction with ladies like that?

Rough hands.


----------



## Vyscaria

Hahaha... I wore Lululemon to PT once on BMQ.

Never. Again. 
Not. Recommended. 

At. All. 
It must be code for "give me more laps and pushups".  :facepalm:

--

Back to the topic; I think most of what should be said was already said... But upping your cardio through any means possible will pay off big time in the long run.


----------



## The_Falcon

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> One major malfunction with ladies like that?
> 
> Rough hands.



The smart ones take care of their hands


----------



## curious george

Vyscaria said:
			
		

> Hahaha... I wore Lululemon to PT once on BMQ.
> 
> Never. Again.
> Not. Recommended.
> 
> At. All.
> It must be code for "give me more laps and pushups".  :facepalm:



What's wrong with Lululemon?  Too distracting for the boys maybe.


----------



## Devo3733

For just starting out I highly recommend working on the "big 3" lifts as the core of your program and then assistance stuff around that.  Alternate in a 2 week cycle, first week heavy (more sets for low reps) and second week lighter (less weight but for 5-6 sets of 10-15) 
What are the "Big 3" ?

Bench press 
Squats
Deadlift

No matter what you're doing or what you want to do, working a hard program of these 3 lifts will benefit you and your life.  They are full body, compound lifts that will not only build the main muscle groups they invlove, but every stabilizer and core muscle as well.  Building functional, "Real life" strength should be a big concern for military personell (Do you are more likely to sit on a comfy seat and have to raise a heavy thing with one arm 10-15 times, or bend over and heave a heavy arse box of something from the ground onto a truck?).

5 x 5 is a popular program, especially for beginners to lifting and will certainly build on your main lifts and movements.  Obviously find something that works best for you and has a good emphasis on conditioning as well as strength training.  Personally I lift heavy 3 days a week and do cardio work (sprints, jogging, burpee sets, whatever) another 3 with 1 day for rest.  Another thing you should do is spend time learning HOW to do the big 3 properly.  Watch youtube videos from professionals and read training material on how to do the movements right, nothing worse than seriously hurting yourself because you were turning a squat into some wierd pseudo "good morning".  
Conditioning is of course an extremely important thing for making it through BMQ but being strong and poweful should not be discounted.  

Last note, *FIND WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!*  everyone is different, everyones body will respond differently to certain routines and diets.  The internet is vast in its opinionated idiots, and ESPECIALLY this is the case on workout forums.. holy crap.  Some will say never work a bodypart more than once a week, some will say work it every day, some will say never use barbells, some will say only use barbells, etc.  Experiment and find what works best for you and if someone tells you "yo dawg you should be doing decline benchpress instead!" you can invite them to mind their own business.


----------



## Devo3733

One more quick note for anyone concerned with the grip test.  Deadlifting is GREAT for building your grip, especially with heavier and heavier weight if you do a single and just stand there holding it as long as you can.  If you can hold up 300 lbs. for 10 seconds you can crush the grip requirement  :nod:


----------



## TSpoon

Devo3733 said:
			
		

> For just starting out I highly recommend working on the "big 3" lifts as the core of your program and then assistance stuff around that.  Alternate in a 2 week cycle, first week heavy (more sets for low reps) and second week lighter (less weight but for 5-6 sets of 10-15)
> What are the "Big 3" ?
> 
> Bench press
> Squats
> Deadlift
> 
> No matter what you're doing or what you want to do, working a hard program of these 3 lifts will benefit you and your life.  They are full body, compound lifts that will not only build the main muscle groups they invlove, but every stabilizer and core muscle as well.  Building functional, "Real life" strength should be a big concern for military personell (Do you are more likely to sit on a comfy seat and have to raise a heavy thing with one arm 10-15 times, or bend over and heave a heavy arse box of something from the ground onto a truck?).
> 
> 5 x 5 is a popular program, especially for beginners to lifting and will certainly build on your main lifts and movements.  Obviously find something that works best for you and has a good emphasis on conditioning as well as strength training.  Personally I lift heavy 3 days a week and do cardio work (sprints, jogging, burpee sets, whatever) another 3 with 1 day for rest.  Another thing you should do is spend time learning HOW to do the big 3 properly.  Watch youtube videos from professionals and read training material on how to do the movements right, nothing worse than seriously hurting yourself because you were turning a squat into some wierd pseudo "good morning".
> Conditioning is of course an extremely important thing for making it through BMQ but being strong and poweful should not be discounted.
> 
> Last note, *FIND WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!*  everyone is different, everyones body will respond differently to certain routines and diets.  The internet is vast in its opinionated idiots, and ESPECIALLY this is the case on workout forums.. holy crap.  Some will say never work a bodypart more than once a week, some will say work it every day, some will say never use barbells, some will say only use barbells, etc.  Experiment and find what works best for you and if someone tells you "yo dawg you should be doing decline benchpress instead!" you can invite them to mind their own business.



Totally agree with everything you said here.However, I think you should add the Overhead/Military press to your list and call it the "big 4" (as many people do).The OHP is ,IMO one of the best bang for your buck exercises out there.Not only does it require a ton of T-spine/Shoulder mobility to perform with a full ROM, but it has more of a carryover affect to other upper body pressing than the bench press does.

Also,for anyone brand new to barbell training, Starting strength would be a good program to look into as it has less volume than the 5x5 method(although eventually you would be able to move onto the 5x5 method,as Devo said, its a popular program for a reason, because it works.)


----------



## novaatlantic

I lift things up, then I put them down.


----------



## Devo3733

novaatlantic said:
			
		

> I lift things up, then I put them down.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAXo3Wr_nYU


----------



## Ducam

Buy this

http://www.amazon.ca/The-New-Encyclopedia-Modern-Bodybuilding/dp/0684857219

Best book I ever bought. Goes through lists of different exercises with pictures and tips.


----------



## greenmachine

Do a 5x5 routine. A tested and tried method that's been around forever. 

Google StrongLifts 5x5 and you can get a bunch of free stuff explaining it all. Basically you do 3 compound lifts a day, 3 times a week. 

Squat
Deadlift
Overhead Press
Bench Press
Barbell Row

Note: all of these are barbell exercises, none of that sissy dumbell flye stuff.  ;D


----------



## PuckChaser

I was doing stronglifts before I hurt my knee. Good stuff, simple exercises and was helping build strength/muscle.


----------



## Mcfro

greenmachine said:
			
		

> Do a 5x5 routine. A tested and tried method that's been around forever.
> 
> Google StrongLifts 5x5 and you can get a bunch of free stuff explaining it all. Basically you do 3 compound lifts a day, 3 times a week.
> 
> Squat
> Deadlift
> Overhead Press
> Bench Press
> Barbell Row
> 
> Note: all of these are barbell exercises, none of that sissy dumbell flye stuff.  ;D


(I realize the OP has probably long since moved on, posting this for the benefit of other folks browsing)

Not that I'm in the army (yet), but from what I've gathered, one would prefer muscular endurance over raw strength or muscle size.
For this purpose, I would strongly recommend higher reps (12 or so) and lighter weight than a 5x5. 

Those 5 are indispensable exercises, however I might also add a few exercises that hit the missing muscle groups:
-For wrists and grip strength, do a Farmer's Walk. Pick up two heavy dumbells, hold them by your side, and walk around with them for a minute. Repeat this 5 times per workout session (recommend you save this for the end)

-For biceps, you'll obviously want to throw some bicep curls in there. Just grab a barbell, keep your hands shoulder distance apart, and pull (don't hoist). If you're feeling fancy, you can do hammer curls and/or pronate curls as well.

-Triceps are being worked in the exercises quoted, but they aren't being exhausted. I would add some dips in there (assisted with a dip machine if needed and if at your disposal). 

-To work your calves, just hop on a calf machine, and blow out 5 sets x 25-30 reps. Simple stuff. 

-For your lats, do some pullups (wide grip). 

EDIT: 
Split your days up as well. Upper body 1-2 days a week, lower body 1-2 days a week. (3 days a week might seem tempting at first. Don't.)
The aim, for the most part, is to split antagonistic muscles (muscles that work against each other, such as biceps/triceps). For example, you won't be able to reach max contraction in your biceps if you're already blasted your triceps, since your triceps will still be "pumped", and pulling away from the biceps. 
My split goes as such:

Upper body
- Chest
- Shoulders
- Traps
- Abs
- Forearms
- Triceps

Lower body
- Quads
- Hamstrings
- Calves
- Glutes
- Lower back
- Middle back (rows)
- Biceps
- Lats
- Adductors (groin muscle)

Do cardio on two off days and after an upper body day. Save 1 day to just rest (as much as possible, at any rate). 
Eat properly and such.


----------



## The_Falcon

Right   :  and who are you?


----------



## Mcfro

Someone who knows how to work out. Do I need to be in the military or have a good "rep" on this site to know how to train muscles?
Point out the flaws in what I've written and send me a-packing, or kindly back off.


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

I agree to an extent, with 2 mbrs.

one the 5x5 is great, but yes speaking for military use, you'd want to also include some higher rep work 12+ of either the same exercises or different accessory lifts.

Look at Powerlifters, most train in such a fashion.  Low rep heavy work on main moves, and accessory lifts get higher reps, and shorter rest periods to blast through lactic acid threshold.


----------



## The_Falcon

Mcfro said:
			
		

> Someone who knows how to work out. Do I need to be in the military or have a good "rep" on this site to know how to train muscles?
> Point out the flaws in what I've written and send me a-packing, or kindly back off.





			
				Mcfro said:
			
		

> (I realize the OP has probably long since moved on, posting this for the benefit of other folks browsing)
> 
> Not that I'm in the army (yet),



Starts right there, not in, so no experience on what may or may not be useful. 



> but from what I've gathered, one would prefer muscular endurance over raw strength or muscle size.
> For this purpose, I would strongly recommend higher reps (12 or so) and lighter weight than a 5x5.



Again, with no time in by your own admission, how do you presume to know, that musclar endurance would be preferable?  There are plenty of jobs in the CF where having a solid strength base is more beneficial than one's ability to crank out 50+ push ups.



> Those 5 are indispensable exercises, however I might also add a few exercises that hit the missing muscle groups:



If you are some how "missing" something by doing heavy compound lifts, then you either a) aren't lifting heavy enough, b) not doing them properly, c) both.




> -For biceps, you'll obviously want to throw some bicep curls in there. Just grab a barbell, keep your hands shoulder distance apart, and pull (don't hoist). If you're feeling fancy, you can do hammer curls and/or pronate curls as well.
> 
> -Triceps are being worked in the exercises quoted, but they aren't being exhausted. I would add some dips in there (assisted with a dip machine if needed and if at your disposal).
> 
> -To work your calves, just hop on a calf machine, and blow out 5 sets x 25-30 reps. Simple stuff.
> 
> -For your lats, do some pullups (wide grip).



Ah I get it you goals and routines are focused on aesthetics vs actual performance.  Again, with no time in, I can see how you would favour aesthetics. About the only good thing you mentioned was doing pull ups, but not because they are good for lat development.   Because, when done properly are in the same class as the compound lifts, they work multiple muscle groups and require co-ordination between those muscle groups, thus benefiting overall CNS development.  As for the rationale of "exhausting" tiny muscles like tricep, what's the logic and rationale, other than you read it in a magazine somewhere.



> EDIT:
> Split your days up as well. Upper body 1-2 days a week, lower body 1-2 days a week. (3 days a week might seem tempting at first. Don't.)
> The aim, for the most part, is to split antagonistic muscles (muscles that work against each other, such as biceps/triceps). For example, you won't be able to reach max contraction in your biceps if you're already blasted your triceps, since your triceps will still be "pumped", and pulling away from the biceps.
> My split goes as such
> 
> 
> 
> Upper body
> - Chest
> - Shoulders
> - Traps
> - Abs
> - Forearms
> - Triceps
> 
> Lower body
> - Quads
> - Hamstrings
> - Calves
> - Glutes
> - Lower back
> - Middle back (rows)
> - Biceps
> - Lats
> - Adductors (groin muscle)
> 
> Do cardio on two off days and after an upper body day. Save 1 day to just rest (as much as possible, at any rate).
> Eat properly and such.



Again, your training whether you want to admit it or not, is not performance based.  It's also not suitable for a novice.  There is a reason many coaches/authors etc from Mark Rippetoe, Louie Simmons, Dante Trudell, Jim Wendler, Dave Tate, and heck even Arnold, have novices doing basically only heavy compound lifts for the first 2-3 years.   It works.  Again if you aren't suitably wiped from a simple program like stronglifts 5x5 or Wendlers 5/3/1 you aren't going heavy enough and/or doing the lifts properly.  ALL of the compound lifts will tax your entire body if you do them correctly, with heavy weight.   All of the aforementioned will only advocate using accessory movements such as curls, extensions etc, to shore up any weakness that is holding you back in the main compound lift.  

The high volume BB style training, typically seen in BB magazines is meant for ......Advanced Body Builders who also tend to use STEROIDS to cope with the stress that such high volume work produces on the body.  If your deadlift and your squat aren't at least 2x bodyweight, then you are novice.  

And to answer your question "Do I need to be in the military or have a good "rep" on this site to know how to train muscles?" when the topic is regarding workouts/programs suitable to helping a person in their military career,  "Someone who knows how to work out", doesn't quite cut it, when they have no frame of reference to actually BEING IN THE MILITARY, we call it staying in your lane around here.


----------



## The_Falcon

MrBlue said:
			
		

> I agree to an extent, with 2 mbrs.
> 
> one the 5x5 is great, but yes speaking for military use, you'd want to also include some higher rep work 12+ of either the same exercises or different accessory lifts.
> 
> Look at Powerlifters, most train in such a fashion.  Low rep heavy work on main moves, and accessory lifts get higher reps, and shorter rest periods to blast through lactic acid threshold.



You got this in while I was typing.  You are correct sort of.  Different coaches will present a different rationale for why/when someone should use accessory work, and then what accessory work should be used.  Wendler keeps it pretty simple (dips and chins/pullups), also mentions a few "accessory" programs.  Rippetoe if he finds out your curling, he will probably rip your head off.  Simmons gets very very technical, and incorporates ALOT of things (but then the Westside program is meant more for the Advanced Power Lifter).  The common thread though is accessory work should be just that, accessory and should never compromise the main lifts. 

Personal opinion if your are using a heavy lifting program like 5x5 or whatever for the CF, then accessory work should revolve around bodyweight work (pushups, dips, pull ups etc.), since that's the high rep stuff a person is going to encounter in group PT scenarios and on PT tests.


----------



## Mcfro

> Again, with no time in by your own admission, how do you presume to know, that musclar endurance would be preferable?  There are plenty of jobs in the CF where having a solid strength base is more beneficial than one's ability to crank out 50+ push ups.


I browse the site and read anecdotes of members. 
Also, I am genuinely curious, I would like for you to name at least 5 jobs in which a super strength base is more useful than muscular endurance (which, by the way, you seem to think I'm implying one cannot have both). 



> If you are some how "missing" something by doing heavy compound lifts, then you either a) aren't lifting heavy enough, b) not doing them properly, c) both.


Sure, tell me how those squats are working your calves.
Tell me how that barbell row is working your biceps to capacity. 
Tell me how that deadlift is working your lower back (hint: it shouldn't be worked to the extent of calling it a workout for that purpose).

The term "compound" doesn't equate to every muscle involved being worked equally. The things I suggested are there to complement the main lifts, not to replace. They are also there to work the muscles not being worked at all. 



> Ah I get it you goals and routines are focused on aesthetics vs actual performance.  Again, with no time in, I can see how you would favour aesthetics. About the only good thing you mentioned was doing pull ups, but not because they are good for lat development.   Because, when done properly are in the same class as the compound lifts, they work multiple muscle groups and require co-ordination between those muscle groups, thus benefiting overall CNS development.


I, too, enjoy making baseless assumptions. Heh, wait, I don't.

Aesthetics are on my list, but far, far down the list. I deal with my aesthetics by managing my nutrition properly, not modifying my workout.

As for the pull-ups, the main muscle they work is the lats. The fact that it's a compound exercise was implied, and you're being pedantic by pointing out the obvious benefits.



> As for the rationale of "exhausting" tiny muscles like tricep, what's the logic and rationale, other than you read it in a magazine somewhere.


Tiny muscles? You call something that makes two thirds of you upper arms a "tiny muscle"? Damn fella...

As for the logic behind exhausting them with dips (oh, look, another compound exercise!), dips allow the triceps to work the entire range of motion, using body weight as resistance. Working the entire range of motion allows for the fibers that aren't stressed during overhead presses and bench presses to get stressed, repair, and grow.  I chose to single out triceps since I've read they make you do a ton of them in BMQ, and proper military pushups place more stress on the triceps than the pectorals. 

If your triceps are fine, or the posts I read were gross exaggeration, by all means, skip dips (not that I would). 



> Again, your training whether you want to admit it or not, is not performance based.  It's also not suitable for a novice.  There is a reason many coaches/authors etc from Mark Rippetoe, Louie Simmons, Dante Trudell, Jim Wendler, Dave Tate, and heck even Arnold, have novices doing basically only heavy compound lifts for the first 2-3 years.   It works.  Again if you aren't suitably wiped from a simple program like stronglifts 5x5 or Wendlers 5/3/1 you aren't going heavy enough and/or doing the lifts properly.  ALL of the compound lifts will tax your entire body if you do them correctly, with heavy weight.   All of the aforementioned will only advocate using accessory movements such as curls, extensions etc, to shore up any weakness that is holding you back in the main compound lift.


To start, I train only for performance. I don't train to "bulk up" like a balloon animal, nor do I train for the beach. I train for myself. 
On that note, why would you list a bunch of balloon animal bodybuilders? There's a reason their bodies look the way they do; they train much differently than someone like Obi Obadike. They train specifically for hypertrophy, as opposed to strength/endurance (obviously there's a strong correlation, but I digress).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with accessory movements, for the record. Were you to say isolation exercises or machine exercises, I might be strongly inclined to agree with you. 



> we call it staying in your lane around here.


This, fortunately, is my lane, which is why I don't post on other topics; I only read the other topics. 

But hey, thanks for the pep talk, champ.


----------



## Jarnhamar

What's wrong with bulking up? You make a bigger target and soak up damage for your brothers behind you.  you don't like protecting your team mates?


----------



## ballz

Mcfro said:
			
		

> Blah blah blah
> 
> But hey, thanks for the pep talk, champ.



Wow, you've got lots to learn. Luckily your head is big enough that it should all be able to fit in there.

Enjoy doing your bicep curls, they'll be a big help when you're getting jacked up for being an @$$ clown.


----------



## Mcfro

ballz said:
			
		

> Wow, you've got lots to learn. Luckily your head is big enough that it should all be able to fit in there.
> 
> Enjoy doing your bicep curls, they'll be a big help when you're getting jacked up for being an @$$ clown.


If you don't want to do biceps and mess your elbows up with a muscle imbalance later on, by all means, by my guest.

Speaking of, do you actually have anything *else to contribute to the topic or are you just here to "ride the newbie" as well?


----------



## AgentSmith

Mcfro said:
			
		

> If you don't want to do biceps and mess your elbows up with a muscle imbalance later on, by all means, by my guest.
> 
> Speaking of, do you actually have anything *else to contribute to the topic or are you just here to "ride the newbie" as well?



Bicep curls do nothing in the grand scheme of things as the bicep is such a small muscle. I don't see why people are so fascinated by it. No one cares how big your arms are or how much you curl. They care about how much you can run and ruck. In my opinion, training purely for looks is pointless. If you put the effort in and train for performance, the good looks will follow 

It's also very important to include stuff like running (which you will do a lot of in BMQ and throughout your career) 

Strength and cardio are both important, bodybuilding routines are not. I'd recommend either a proven strength program (GSLP, 5/3/1 or whatever strength program you fancy) with running/sprinting/a few short metcons mixed in, or Crossfit Endurance.


----------



## The_Falcon

Mcfro said:
			
		

> Also, I am genuinely curious, I would like for you to name at least 5 jobs in which a super strength base is more useful than muscular endurance (which, by the way, you seem to think I'm implying one cannot have both).



Super Strength base? I am not talking about getting to the point of being a geared up powerlifter pulling 1000lbs off the ground.  But for the Average person 2x-3x BW is not out of the question, and certainly not difficult, if a person is motivated.  I am 195lbs, my best deadlift so far is 430 (haven't gone for  max attempt in awhile), I am currently on pace to hit a 405lbs squat in 2 weeks, and hopefully 500lbs by the summer.

To paraphrase Mark Rippetoe, Stronger people are harder to kill, and generally more useful.

My position has always been that if you are in an army trade or a purple trade that works with the army, then you should be as strong as you possibly can be (I actually think this applies to everyone in the world, but I will settle for army+purples) .  But if want actual specifics, from my own observations:

1) Artillery, specifcally anyone assigned to work on/around the M777, nothing about that gun is light.
2) Armoured crewman, very few things about armoured vehicles such as Coyotes, Leopards, and LAVs could be called "light"
3) Combat Engineer, hauling around demo equipment, and bridge pieces seems to be a very bad idea for the pencil thin, brook trout shoulder types.
4) Light Infantry.  Whoever came up with that term had a twisted sense of humour, as very little about life as light infantry is "light", especially for the poor SOBs assigned to handle support weapons.  
5) Traffic Techs.  The guys I have met in this trade that don't have issues with all the physical labour involved, are not what one would describe as small/weak people.   Something about loading/unloading pallets of heavy equipment/kit day in day out.....

I can come up with plenty of other examples but I think you get the point.



> Sure, tell me how those squats are working your calves. [
> Tell me how that barbell row is working your biceps to capacity.
> Tell me how that deadlift is working your lower back (hint: it shouldn't be worked to the extent of calling it a workout for that purpose)


Perhaps you should actually read some books on anatomy or take a class/course or two, or just lift heavier.

The Gastrocnenius and Soleus are responsible for flexion/extension of the ankle joint.  Both of which occur in squats (or should occur, lack of ankle mobility is a major reason most people don't break parallel when performing squats).  I invite you try doing a full depth *** to grass squat (no weight), with out letting your heels come off the ground (hint doing this bare foot is preferable). If you are like most  people used to a western lifestyle, you will start to feel a pulling sensation in your calves as you get closer to breaking the horizontal plane vis a vi your hip and knee joints, and you most likely lose your balance as your heels rise to compensate for their lack of mobility. 

The biceps brachii are responsible for flexion of the elbow joint, which occurs in rowing movements such as the barbell row and pull up.  Again if the particular muscle isn't being taxed to one's satisfaction then  either a) ADD MORE WEIGHT , b) use a supinated grip, c) a and b. 

The "low back" muscles which include the erector spinae, longissimus thorasis, and external obliques work in conjuction with the rectus abdominus, tranverse abdominus, internal obliques and a few other muscles to form what people think of as the "core "  (although most only actually work the muscle on the anterior plane, because that's where your abz are bro).  All the muscles work in strong isometric contraction (or should be if your doing things correctly) to stablize your torso/midline when it is under load (which means this is also the case when it comes to squats and the press).  If you are so ignorant as to think that pulling 300, 400, 500+ pounds off of the ground isn't putting incredible strain on all those muscles as they fight to maintain proper spinal alignment then you are a moron plain and simple and should refrain from dispensing advice to people, and go back to the misc board of bodybuilding.com.  



> The term "compound" doesn't equate to every muscle involved being worked equally. The things I suggested are there to complement the main lifts, not to replace. They are also there to work the muscles not being worked at all.


No "compound" in the usual sense means multi-joint, multi muscle group.  Never said anything about equality.  What I said was novices really have no business wasting their time with accessory lifting. I already mentioned when accessory lifting is used, but I will say it again for sake of clarity.  WEAK POINT training.   Until you have been lifting 2-3 years, and have at least a 2x BW squat and deadlift and 1.5x BW bench, and 1xBW Press (and some people would probably argue for higher numbers) you are still a novice, and your weak point training should be focused on the main lifts until you get those numbers.    



> I, too, enjoy making baseless assumptions. Heh, wait, I don't.



I haven't made any assumptions.  I actually know what I am talking about.  I spent 12 years in the CF in the Infantry (Reserve), gone on numerous courses and training ex's, tour, and tried out for a few high speed things.  I know from my own personal experience and observations what works for the military and what does not.  Surprisingly the people who take a more holistic approach to their training vs the BB approach (or alternatively the marathoner approach) are the people who don't get crushed.  I have also WORKED as a professional trainer, taken various courses and seminars, have a stack of books on various subjects, such as powerlifting, olympic lifting, kettlebell training, bodyweight (gymnastics training), general barbell training.  And I continually read various articles published by the people I listed in my prior post.  

As I have pointed out TWICE now, YOU have made some rather stupid assumptions, and shown a general lack of knowledge that unfortunately is quite common among a large portion of people.  



> Aesthetics are on my list, but far, far down the list. I deal with my aesthetics by managing my nutrition properly, not modifying my workout.



If you say so.



> As for the pull-ups, the main muscle they work is the lats. The fact that it's a compound exercise was implied, and you're being pedantic by pointing out the obvious benefits.


  Yeah they don't work anything else to any "real" extent at all  :  All those high level gymnasts out there with shoulders and arms the size of bowling balls and grip strength that could crush a brick, must spend all their time doing curls, and lateral dumbbell raises.   Oh wait they DON'T, they spend all their time doing a lot of movements that look like mutiple variations of PULLUPS (in addition to pressing type/and isometric hold stuff as well).  



> Tiny muscles? You call something that makes two thirds of you upper arms a "tiny muscle"? Damn fella...


  Compared to the hamstrings, quads, lats, calves and pecs, your biceps and tricps are compartively small muscles, and the natural hormone response elicited by training them individually (and thus their ability to get stronger) is negligible.   All that said, given that covers of most bodybuilding mags usually feature someone who is taking so many drugs, they can open their own pharmacy, and that commercial gyms are filled with guys like this 








I can undertand why you and many others seem to think that your biceps/triceps are major muscles deserving a lot of individual attention. 



> As for the logic behind exhausting them with dips (oh, look, another compound exercise!), dips allow the triceps to work the entire range of motion, using body weight as resistance. Working the entire range of motion allows for the fibers that aren't stressed during overhead presses and bench presses to get stressed, repair, and grow.  I chose to single out triceps since I've read they make you do a ton of them in BMQ, and proper military pushups place more stress on the triceps than the pectorals.



See you explained why dips are beneficial, still haven't explained why "exhausting" them is a good idea.  I know the "exhaustion/burnout" principle is mentioned in many BB routines, but outside of that context, you won't really find it as part of a legitimate strength training routines for a variety of reasons.  The high stress it places on the CNS, and it's ability to subsequently recover for  one.   The VERY high risk of injury (tendon/ligament tears and strains) for another reason.  Also in regards to "military" push ups.  The CF (well when PSP is monitoring your pushups) pushup is more in line with proper body mechanics.  It's doesn't place any special emphasis on the triceps.  It is actually pretty balanced in terms of working the deltoids, pecs and triceps.  The issue is most people are used to pushups with such a wide hand position that their pecs/deltoids do the brunt of the work, and when they start doing proper pushups, their triceps need to play catch up for a while, but with consistent training the catch up period shouldn't last more than a few weeks. 



> To start, I train only for performance. I don't train to "bulk up" like a balloon animal, nor do I train for the beach. I train for myself.



If you say so.



> On that note, why would you list a bunch of balloon animal bodybuilders? There's a reason their bodies look the way they do; they train much differently than someone like Obi Obadike. They train specifically for hypertrophy, as opposed to strength/endurance (obviously there's a strong correlation, but I digress).



Um  your ignorance is showing, aside from Arnold, none of the people that I mentioned are bodybuilders.  They have all been involved in powerlifting, and general strength training/coaching, in some cases for decades.  They certainly know more than I do on the subject of strength training, and they DEFINATELY know more than YOU and other bro's as well.  They are what most people consider EXPERTS.  But referencing Arnold, if you had actually read his book "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding", which is quite obvious you haven't, you would realize 1) early in his career he competed as a powerlifter as well as an amateur bodybuilder (in fact powerlifting events were a regular staple of early body building contests, as many bodybuilders up until the 50s/60s were also strongmen and powerlifters).  2) as I said before he quite clearly states in his book, novices should stick to simple routines, consisting of compound lifting for the first couple of years.   



> There is absolutely nothing wrong with accessory movements, for the record. Were you to say isolation exercises or machine exercises, I might be strongly inclined to agree with you.


Umm????  In what world is focusing on individual muscles not isolation? Your logic is fail. You can call a bicep curl, an accessory lift, or a standing calf raise an accessory lift, but your are still performing an isolation execercise, as you are only working 1 muscle group and 1  joint.  And I have already explained numerous times why such work is really of no substantial benefit (beyond ego boosting, and well everyone else does it), to novices.   This is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of practically every knowledgeable strength coach out there, distilled over decades of training people from rank novices to pro athletes. 




> This, fortunately, is my lane, which is why I don't post on other topics; I only read the other topics.



You are most certainly not in your lane as you have continually demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of basic anatomy, body mechanics, and training principles.  Not to mention a general lack of basic research skills (Louie Simmons and Jim Wendler are bodybuilders?  I am sure they would find that amusing).   If you are in the Toronto area, Sheridan College has a fantastic con-ed program called "Human Performance Training", you could possibly learn a thing or two.  Doubtful, but there may be hope for you yet.  Otherwise stick to misc.

Edit to fix some errors and to add these links for anyone interested (since they are free, but if you really want to know more, Starting Strength, and Practical Programming are excellent books on the basics of strength training, program design, and body mechanics in relation to strength training).  

Deadlift
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/ssbbt3_pulling_mechanics#.USin46Vgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/ssbbt3_pulling_mechanics_2#.USin6aVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/deadlifts_arent_just_for_powerlifters#.USioLaVgd8E

Press
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/ssbbt3_learning_to_press#.USin86Vgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/the_olympic-style_press#.USioGqVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/the_quest_for_a_stronger_overhead_press#.USioHaVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/the_tragic_death_of_the_military_press


"ABZ/Core"
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/core_stability_training#.USioEqVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/abs#.USioAqVgd8E

Squat/Hip Movement
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/active_hip_2#.USioBKVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/the_squat_or#.USioHaVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/full_squats_or_not#.USioL6Vgd8E

General Strength Training Topics
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/you_must_understand_the_gravity_of_your_situation#.USin-qVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/the_blind_lead_the_willing#.USin_6Vgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/the_novice_effect#.USioC6Vgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/keeping_strength_in_the_strength_program#.USioFqVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/dont_overlook_the_middle#.USioKaVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/barbell_training_is_big_medicine
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/strength_fitness#.USioPKVgd8E

Army Strength Training
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/why_does_the_army_want_me_weak#.USioRaVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/a_strength_based_approach_to_the_apft#.USioSqVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/combat_worst_case_scenario#.USioUaVgd8E
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/is_it_training_or_exercise#.USioVaVgd8E


----------



## Mcfro

> I can come up with plenty of other examples but I think you get the point.


Oh, I get the point alright. You seem to have grossly misinterpreted what I was suggesting much earlier. 

With what I was suggesting, someone would be able to carry those heavy loads for much longer. The downside would be that it would take them longer to achieve said strength level. What you were suggesting was someone reach the strength to be able to carry those loads as fast as possible, the obvious downside being they lack the endurance. 

I never once advocated some "stay-thin marathoner" deal. I merely advocated 12 reps versus 5, which appears to have really rustled your jimmies. 



> The Gastrocnenius and Soleus are responsible for flexion/extension of the ankle joint.  Both of which occur in squats (or should occur, lack of ankle mobility is a major reason most people don't break parallel when performing squats).  I invite you try doing a full depth *** to grass squat (no weight), with out letting your heels come off the ground (hint doing this bare foot is preferable). If you are like most  people used to a western lifestyle, you will start to feel a pulling sensation in your calves as you get closer to breaking the horizontal plane vis a vi your hip and knee joints, and you most likely lose your balance as your heels rise to compensate for their lack of mobility.


Again, you misinterpreted what I said. Perhaps reading isn't necessarily your strong point. 

The gastrocs are certainly and obviously involved in the squats. They're also involved in running, walking, and just about anything that makes you move your legs. Do any of those give them a proper workout? No. The gastrocs benefit far more from lower weight, higher rep (ergo calf raises), than high weight, low rep work. 

Also, for squats, you should be pushing through your heels, not your toes. Basic stuff.



> The biceps brachii are responsible for flexion of the elbow joint, which occurs in rowing movements such as the barbell row and pull up.  Again if the particular muscle isn't being taxed to one's satisfaction then  either a) ADD MORE WEIGHT , b) use a supinated grip, c) a and b.


Again, the biceps are involved in the row and pull-up, but are NOT the primary force involved. If you're taxing your biceps doing a row or a pull-up, you are lifting with abysmal form.



> The "low back" muscles which include the erector spinae, longissimus thorasis, and external obliques work in conjuction with the rectus abdominus, tranverse abdominus, internal obliques and a few other muscles to form what people think of as the "core "  (although most only actually work the muscle on the anterior plane, because that's where your abz are bro).  All the muscles work in strong isometric contraction (or should be if your doing things correctly) to stablize your torso/midline when it is under load (which means this is also the case when it comes to squats and the press).  If you are so ignorant as to think that pulling 300, 400, 500+ pounds off of the ground isn't putting incredible strain on all those muscles as they fight to maintain proper spinal alignment then you are a moron plain and simple and should refrain from dispensing advice to people, and go back to the misc board of bodybuilding.com.


There is no doubt in the world that you WILL feel deadlifts in your back & core; I never denied that. Once again, the muscles that compose the "abz bro" (you seem to know a lot more of this "bro" talk than I do. Funny.) are merely stabilizers, and once again, these particular stabilizers benefit much more from low weight, high rep work. 

The back, of course, is being worked, and you can definitely feel it, but if it's actually straining you to the point where you feel it more in your back than your legs, you need to correct your form. Your shoulders and knees should be past the bar, not in line, so that your scapulae are directly over the bar. This lets your lats hold the brunt of the weight (as opposed to leaning a few degrees back and taxing your abdominals & erector spinae). The deadlift should be taxing your hamstrings and glutes. 

In summary, fix your damned form. 



> No "compound" in the usual sense means multi-joint, multi muscle group.  Never said anything about equality.  What I said was novices really have no business wasting their time with accessory lifting. I already mentioned when accessory lifting is used, but I will say it again for sake of clarity.  WEAK POINT training.   Until you have been lifting 2-3 years, and have at least a 2x BW squat and deadlift and 1.5x BW bench, and 1xBW Press (and some people would probably argue for higher numbers) you are still a novice, and your weak point training should be focused on the main lifts until you get those numbers.


com·ple·ment  
/ˈkämpləmənt/
Noun
A thing that completes or brings to perfection.
Verb
Add to (something) in a way that enhances or improves it; make perfect.

Just in case you didn't understand the word. 



> As I have pointed out TWICE now, YOU have made some rather stupid assumptions, and shown a general lack of knowledge that unfortunately is quite common among a large portion of people.


What assumptions have I made, exactly? I made inferences based off what I read on these boards, but I certainly never plucked anything out of the blue. 
You, however, seem all too fond of the latter.



> Yeah they don't work anything else to any "real" extent at all  :  All those high level gymnasts out there with shoulders and arms the size of bowling balls and grip strength that could crush a brick, must spend all their time doing curls, and lateral dumbbell raises.   Oh wait they DON'T, they spend all their time doing a lot of movements that look like mutiple variations of PULLUPS (in addition to pressing type/and isometric hold stuff as well).


Dear lord, you are dense. I mention the main muscle, and you go on a tirade about the other muscles (which I already acknowledged). 
Once again, you seem to think I'm suggesting doing curls and raises INSTEAD of the main exercises. Reading comprehension really must be your weak point. Here, let me post this again.
com·ple·ment  
/ˈkämpləmənt/
Noun
A thing that completes or brings to perfection.
Verb
Add to (something) in a way that enhances or improves it; make perfect.



> I can undertand why you and many others seem to think that your biceps/triceps are major muscles deserving a lot of individual attention.


Mmm, I love those baseless assumptions. Keep 'em coming. 
Let's get a few things straight: I don't ogle bodybuilding magazines for hours, envying the greased up steroid-laden balloon animals on the cover. I don't aspire to be a balloon animal. I don't skip (or remotely neglect) my legs. I am not a "bro", nor am I a "miscer". I am not here to troll. 

You're right on the triceps, though. The only muscle in the upper body capable of a pushing motion can't be important, right?
Right?

On the same note, are you actually arguing _against_ dips? Because that's the only other exercise I suggested for triceps. If you're arguing against dips, you've honestly just lost every shred of credibility you might have had.

Biceps are admittedly less important, but still an important muscle. There's no reason NOT to train them. 



> I know the "exhaustion/burnout" principle is mentioned in many BB routines, but outside of that context, you won't really find it as part of a legitimate strength training routines for a variety of reasons.  The high stress it places on the CNS, and it's ability to subsequently recover for  one.   The VERY high risk of injury (tendon/ligament tears and strains) for another reason.


I suggested exhausting them mostly for the folks who are waiting to start BMQ (like I mentioned with the "tons of pushups" shpeel earlier). If that's true, amd they aren't up to par yet, they'll need all the endurance they can get. (Again, if it isn't true, disregard. I only know what I read on these boards.)

The risk of injury is much higher with a high strength, low rep routine than vice versa, for the record. The reasons should be fairly obvious. 



> Also in regards to "military" push ups.  The CF (well when PSP is monitoring your pushups) pushup is more in line with proper body mechanics.  It's doesn't place any special emphasis on the triceps.


Hands under your shoulders, right next to your pecs, right? That right there places the majority of the stress on the triceps. 



> Um  your ignorance is showing, aside from Arnold, none of the people that I mentioned are bodybuilders.


Aside from Louie Simmons, everyone you mentioned is a bodybuilder. 



> But referencing Arnold, if you had actually read his book "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding", which is quite obvious you haven't, you would realize 1) early in his career he competed as a powerlifter as well as an amateur bodybuilder (in fact powerlifting events were a regular staple of early body building contests, as many bodybuilders up until the 50s/60s were also strongmen and powerlifters).  2) as I said before he quite clearly states in his book, novices should stick to simple routines, consisting of compound lifting for the first couple of years.


Again, you're quoting a bodybuilder for a subject that isn't bodybuilding. We're not training for hypertrophy (well, by the looks of it, you seem interested). 
On the same note, I never mentioned NOT sticking to compound lifting. I suggested a handful of complementary exercises. 



> Umm????  In what world is focusing on individual muscles not isolation?


A bicep curl employs the biceps, the shoulders, the lats, and the chest, as well as multiple stabilizers (since you're standing). This isn't isolation.
A calf raises employs the gastrocs, the soleus muscle, and the tibialis anterior, and works all of them well. 

A tricep dumbell extension over the head would be isolation. Bicep curls on a preacher bench would be isolation. Quad curls on a machine would be isolation. Hamstring curls are isolation. 



> you have continually demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of basic anatomy, body mechanics, and training principles.


Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. 

You seem to know more about the "misc" junk and "bro" stuff than I do, maybe you can give me some pointers.  :


----------



## The_Falcon

Mcfro said:
			
		

> With what I was suggesting, someone would be able to carry those heavy loads for much longer. The downside would be that it would take them longer to achieve said strength level. What you were suggesting was someone reach the strength to be able to carry those loads as fast as possible, the obvious downside being they lack the endurance.


And you know they would lack endurance based on what, your own assumptions and zero experience in the CF?



> I never once advocated some "stay-thin marathoner" deal. I merely advocated 12 reps versus 5, which appears to have really rustled your jimmies.
> Again, you misinterpreted what I said. Perhaps reading isn't necessarily your strong point.


  

12 reps, why 12?  You failed to explain and elaborate how doing 12 reps, vs 10 or 15 or 20 is beneficial for endurance.  The authors of the various programs mentioned take the time to explain the rationale for using their rep/set schemes.  Throwing an arbitrary number out, and declaring it "good for endurance" without anything to substantiate that claim is not beneficial to anyone.  


Now you got me all confused, here you are saying something that's actually correct


> Also, for squats, you should be pushing through your heels, not your toes. Basic stuff.



And then you say something silly like this



> The gastrocs are certainly and obviously involved in the squats. They're also involved in running, walking, and just about anything that makes you move your legs. Do any of those give them a proper workout? No. The gastrocs benefit far more from lower weight, higher rep (ergo calf raises), than high weight, low rep work.



If that statement were correct calf raises would be a staple of most programs.  Looking at my copies of starting strength, and 5/3/1, they are not.    



> Again, the biceps are involved in the row and pull-up, but are NOT the primary force involved. If you're taxing your biceps doing a row or a pull-up, you are lifting with abysmal form.


What you actually asked was how rows/pull work your biceps  to capacity, and I told you, add weight, supinate your grip or both. 



> There is no doubt in the world that you WILL feel deadlifts in your back & core; I never denied that. Once again, the muscles that compose the "abz bro" (you seem to know a lot more of this "bro" talk than I do. Funny.) are merely stabilizers, and once again, *these particular stabilizers benefit much more from low weight, high rep work.*


Now that bolded part is funny, you obviously did not read of the articles I posted, and you obviously never lifted with a sufficiently heavy enough weight to actually tax your "core".  You even refer to them properly as stabilzers, yet you somehow can't grasp that, that making STABILZERS, do their damn job of STABILIZING your torso you when you put it under load, actually works them.  I am going to go out on a limb, and say you are one of the many people out there that equate feelings of muscle burn, soreness whatever, as a positive indicator of whether or not something is beneficial.  



> The back, of course, is being worked, and you can definitely feel it, but if it's actually straining you to the point where you feel it more in your back than your legs, you need to correct your form. Your shoulders and knees should be past the bar, not in line, so that your scapulae are directly over the bar. This lets your lats hold the brunt of the weight (as opposed to leaning a few degrees back and taxing your abdominals & erector spinae). The deadlift should be taxing your hamstrings and glutes.



And then you go and say something smart again. 



> In summary, fix your damned form.



My form is fine, actually.  I perhaps used the wrong word, tension would be more appropriate than strain



> com·ple·ment
> /ˈkämpləmənt/
> Noun
> A thing that completes or brings to perfection.
> Verb
> Add to (something) in a way that enhances or improves it; make perfect.
> 
> Just in case you didn't understand the word.


I understand just fine.  What you don't seem to quite get, is NOVICES aren't at the point were adding in a whole bunch of supplementary, accessory, complimentary movements is going to be beneficial.  In fact I have repeatedly seen the opposite, instead of focusing on the compound lifts, people get bored start adding a whole bunch of other crap, burn out their CNS, and subsequently stall their progress on the big lifts. 



> What assumptions have I made, exactly? I made inferences based off what I read on these boards, but I certainly never plucked anything out of the blue.
> You, however, seem all too fond of the latter.
> Dear lord, you are dense. I mention the main muscle, and you go on a tirade about the other muscles (which I already acknowledged).
> Once again, you seem to think I'm suggesting doing curls and raises INSTEAD of the main exercises. Reading comprehension really must be your weak point. Here, let me post this again.
> com·ple·ment
> /ˈkämpləmənt/
> Noun
> A thing that completes or brings to perfection.
> Verb
> Add to (something) in a way that enhances or improves it; make perfect.
> Mmm, I love those baseless assumptions. Keep 'em coming.



I already said what assumptions you have made, your very first post, where you mention I am not in the army but....you even do it above, you have read a bunch of posts of what may be a good idea, however you DO NOT have the actual experience in the CF to back up your ideas.  You are assuming to have knowledge and experience you admitted already you do not have.  And I am the dense one?



> You're right on the triceps, though. The only muscle in the upper body capable of a pushing motion can't be important, right?
> Right?



I don't even know what this is about, I am guessing the biceps/triceps are pretty small muscles comment.



> On the same note, are you actually arguing _against_ dips? Because that's the only other exercise I suggested for triceps. If you're arguing against dips, you've honestly just lost every shred of credibility you might have had.



And my reading comprehension is bad apparently  :  I think what I wrote was pretty clear, so I won't repeat myself.  



> Biceps are admittedly less important, but still an important muscle. There's no reason NOT to train them.
> I suggested exhausting them mostly for the folks who are waiting to start BMQ (like I mentioned with the "tons of pushups" shpeel earlier). If that's true, amd they aren't up to par yet, they'll need all the endurance they can get. (Again, if it isn't true, disregard. I only know what I read on these boards.)



And they will get all the work they require sticking with pullups and pull up variations.  



> The risk of injury is much higher with a high strength, low rep routine than vice versa, for the record. The reasons should be fairly obvious.


Right and where exactly are you getting this dubious information?  So all the injuries that people get, that fall under the category of repetitive strain injuries, such as SLAP tears, elbow tendonitis etc. aren't caused by repetitive movements.  



> Hands under your shoulders, right next to your pecs, right? That right there places the majority of the stress on the triceps.


Incorrect, hands directly under your sternum, places the majority of the stress on your triceps.  The hand positioning used by the CF (the US Military) for pushups allows for maximum generation of torque, through the triceps/deltoids/pec/lats.  Kelly Starrett has a few videos on mobilitywod.com, explaining/demonstrating this concept.  It's same concept that Louie Simmons and Westside Barbell use for their Bench Press technique.   



> Aside from Louie Simmons, everyone you mentioned is a bodybuilder.
> Again, you're quoting a bodybuilder for a subject that isn't bodybuilding. We're not training for hypertrophy (well, by the looks of it, you seem interested).



WOW, do you even know how to use google?

Jim Wendler is NOT a bodybuilder
Mark Rippetoe is not a bodybuilder
Arnold yes, but like I mentioned he was also a powerlifter as well.  Which I stated and you completely ignored.  Regardless, how does him being a bodybuilder, nullify his thoughts and opinions on training, specifically when referencing beginners since, his opinions pretty much match Wendler, Rip et al. Also I personally don't have an issue with legit bodybuilders (ie they make a living doing it), as they do possess quite a wealth of knowledge, and are still seriously strong mofo's.  That said, I (and many others with Military experience) take issue with anyone who thinks, that using BB style routines are effective for military purposes.  As well, most gym goers/bro are NOT bodybuilders, not even close.  Bodybuilding takes a helluva lot of personal drive, motivation, consistency, and sacrifice.  Something lacking in most "bros"

As for training for hypertrophy 1) Since when does being 195lbs qualify as training for hypertrophy?  2) I suggest you look up the difference between myofibular hypertrophy and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.  The latter being the kind that makes one big and swole, and also correlates to the rep range of 8-12 reps.  3)Training to put on some size would be beneficial in some cases.  if you only weigh 130lbs, and your carrying 60-75lbs pounds on a dismounted patrol in 50 degree heat, you are going to be in for a helluva a rough time. 4) What's this "We're not training for hypertrophy"? You are not in CF. Nor do you have prior experience in the CF.   So cut this "we" BS.  



> On the same note, I never mentioned NOT sticking to compound lifting. I suggested a handful of complementary exercises.


And I have repeatedly pointed out (and this not something I pulled out of thin air), that it is not necessary for the novice. 



> A bicep curl employs the biceps, the shoulders, the lats, and the chest, as well as multiple stabilizers (since you're standing). This isn't isolation.
> A calf raises employs the gastrocs, the soleus muscle, and the tibialis anterior, and works all of them well.
> A tricep dumbell extension over the head would be isolation. Bicep curls on a preacher bench would be isolation. Quad curls on a machine would be isolation. Hamstring curls are isolation.



Now you are trying to apply your own definitions to suit your argument. 



> You seem to know more about the "misc" junk and "bro" stuff than I do, maybe you can give me some pointers.  :



It's simple really, 1) the bb.com forums come up in my google searches when I am looking up various topics, from time to time.  I will read them the odd time, to help me understand people's misconceptions, and lack of knowledge, so I can thoroughly explain concepts and movements to my clients in a way that doesn't leave them baffled. 2)  we would from time to time get the bro types showing up at the gym I worked at, they usually never lasted past the intro session, or were disappointed we had no mirrors. 3)my current gym is on a military base, and is basically a typical commercial gym, so I hear the bro talk constantly. 

Edit to fix grammar/spelling.


----------



## Muscles And Brains

Hire an experienced Kinesiologist! They are worth every penny. I went from barely being able to do 6 pushups and 1 pullup to increasing my muscle mass 30 lbs, reduce my fat 23 lbs in only 6 months. They know what they're talking about!


----------



## JoeDos

Alright so as of February 1st the FORCE test will be in place, now my issue is with Cardio I can sprint at a decent speed but I run out of breath at a decent rate and I am a little worried at the 80meter rush, does anyone have advice on making it so I don't run out of breath as easy? The sandbag drag I am not very worried about because its essentially just using your bodies momentum.

And I have been strength training for a few months now, haven't really focused on my Cardio until recently.


----------



## Arcset

Hello all, I was wondering if someone could provide me with some feedback for getting better prepared for a possible military career.  My current schedule is below:

Monday: 5km run
Tuesday: Strength training
Wednesday: Interval training
Thursday: 5km run
Friday: Strength training
Saturday or Sunday: Hike

Strength training circuit (completed 3 times): 
Pull ups
Push ups
Sit ups
Dumbbell curls
Squats
Tricep dips
Calf raises
Chin ups

Personal info: 
Weight: 135lbs (yes I'm a toothpick, currently working on trying to increase my food intake)
Height: 5'10"
Application status: Waiting for medical and interview booking.  Heck, I might not get in at all because of medical.
Trade choices: Infantry, combat engineer, and armour crewman (all NCM)

This gives me two days of strength, two days of running, one day of intervals, and one day of hiking.  Monday and Thursday has me running 5km at the moment, however that's going to be increased by 500m every one or two weeks so that I'll be able to do 10km by the end of August (hopefully).  Tuesday and Friday involves completing my strength circuit 3 times each day, which mostly consist of calisthenics because of a lack of equipment I have (dumbbells with 30lbs of plates, pull up bar, and a home gym that I use for dips and squats).  Interval training and hiking were added to give myself some additional cardio and variation in the workout routine.

I'm not sure if I should be putting more of an emphasis on strength training or cardio.  I'm not saying that I'm strong or anything, but I'm capable of supporting my weight and then some (been backpacking in Alqonquin with a 30lb pack on a rather unpleasant trail for 12km, and loaded up a bag with 50lbs of weight and carried it around college just for fun).  On the other hand I feel like my cardio is severely lacking (even running as little as 5km is a bit of a challenge), and my understanding is that unless you keep pushing yourself you don't actually improve your cardio levels, hence why I'd be increasing the distance by 500m every week or two.  

I've been reading over information in this forum and have been making adjustments to my schedule, and will continue to do so as I find more info.  Any feedback or information anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks everyone.


----------



## Emilio

> On the other hand I feel like my cardio is severely lacking (even running as little as 5km is a bit of a challenge), and my understanding is that unless you keep pushing yourself you don't actually improve your cardio levels, hence why I'd be increasing the distance by 500m every week or two.



I know what you mean, I run 2k before every workout and always feel the same level of fatigue afterwards. What I found helps is doing short high intensity cardio in-between workout days, and example being something like wind sprints but half the distance and no walking.


----------



## dankcco

My training 'cycles' on Friday, which is why this will start on a Friday.

Friday: Weights - chest/back
Saturday: Weights legs/shoulders
Sunday: Aerobic - swim
             Weights - core/arms
Monday: Weights - chest/back
Tuesday: Morning, Anaerobic - run
              Weights - legs/shoulders
Wednesday: Weights - core/arms
Thursday: Morning, Anaerobic - swim
               Afternoon, Aerobic (90-120min) - weighted hike or run

Feel free to post what your training regime looks like during a week!


----------



## MedicTWO

I noticed you don't have any rest days.
How long have you been doing this cycle and have you felt like you've hit a wall?

I ask because I am trying to figure out my workout schedule around half marathon training, mma classes and bodyweight workouts


----------



## dankcco

Because I keep my weight workouts segregated to specific muscle groups they have the time to recover between workouts. The anaerobic and aerobic work does not interfere with this either. The hard part is just keeping up the calorie consumption and getting enough sleep.

But no one is infallible, so life will sometimes get in the way and that will also give me some extra rest.


----------



## MedicTWO

dankcco said:
			
		

> Because I keep my weight workouts segregated to specific muscle groups they have the time to recover between workouts. The anaerobic and aerobic work does not interfere with this either. The hard part is just keeping up the calorie consumption and getting enough sleep.
> 
> But no one is infallible, so life will sometimes get in the way and that will also give me some extra rest.


Thanks 
I think I'm getting gassed from lack of rest days because MMA is a full body workout.


----------



## EliteTrgPrograms

MedicTWO, 

Have you read 8 Weeks Out by Joel Jamieson?  If you're doing MMA for the sport, and not the hobby he outlines a very intelligent training plan that shows you how to blend together energy systems and specific/non-specific training together to have you peaking at the appropriate time.  A lack of rest days will crush anyone.  Joel has also created something called a heart rate variability monitor (HRV) that measures the changes of time intervals between heart beats.  This has been proven to correlate very well with training readiness.  While you'll need some time and understanding to interpret the data, it can help you create great awareness in your training program.


----------



## MedicTWO

Wes-Ken,

Thank you I will look into it. I mostly just do it as a hobby and to unwind after a tough day at work. I always look forwards to learning more about training philosophies (especially sport specific) and how they relate to the full body athlete.


----------



## theforcewithin

MedicTWO said:
			
		

> Thanks
> I think I'm getting gassed from lack of rest days because MMA is a full body workout.



MedicTWO, I'm doing MMA as well to prepare. How many days a week do you train, and to what intensity/extent? Do you take supplements as well? I'm mixing it with endurance and strength training, but I feel as though if I push too much, I'll eventually gas out sooner rather than later.

I'll take a look at Wes-Ken's recommendation re: 8 Weeks Out too.


----------



## Troubleman24

So I got sworn in last week. I'm led to believe that I won't be getting in BMQ before January. But I wanted to know if I should change up my work out routine or still keep on doing it.
This is what my routine consists of

Monday: Push
Tuesday: Pull
Wednesday: Cardio
Thursday: Legs
Friday: Push
Saturday: Pull
Sunday: Off

Day 1: Push
Bench Press 3 sets
Incline Bench Press 3 sets
Dips 3 sets
Military Shoulder Press 3 sets
Triceps Pulldowns until complete burnout

Day 2: Pull
Bent Over Rows 3 sets
Chin Ups 3 sets
Machine Rows 3 sets
Bicep Curls 3 sets

Day 3: Legs & Abs
Squats 3 sets
Leg Press 3 sets
Hamstring Leg Curls 3 sets
Abs exercises 3 sets(captain chair leg raises) 
Plank till I'm done(maximum I do is 4:12 as of now)

Basically for all weight exercises I just add more weight and do less reps(minus 2) every set, but I also try on my last set to do the same amount of reps I did on my 2nd sep with more weight sometimes I can or Im just shy of 1
As for Cardio the thing I do is just run for 30 seconds at the maximum speed I can on the treadmill(12.5) and then walk for 60 seconds. I do this 10 times.
Also during the summer I tried to play basketball on Sundays which helped my cardio.


----------



## LightFighter

You really need to work on your cardio, doing 10 sprints a week isn't going to get you ready.

Look around these forums and online, lots of good information about what to expect physically during training, and work out programs/ideas, etc.


----------



## cryco

Interval training is a good way to improve your cardio (hence the sprint /walk) but you should do some running. Get your joints used to running for 20/30/40 minutes.
On your leg day, I would ditch the leg press. You're not training to be a linebacker, you need functional strength. Do some deadlifts  or cleans instead. 
And from my understanding (after doing tons of reading), make sure you aim for 12 reps, and do some supersets or during your minute rest, do some other unrelated exercise, like pushups, air squats, crunches etc...


----------



## Arty39

I would recommend lots of running and good shoes prior to basic. Talking like 5km runs.


----------



## Troubleman24

Yeah I'll probably do more running in the morning or at night then.
Today I tried to do 2.4 KM(1.42 miles)  under 11:56 minutes and I was able to do it under 11 mins or so on the treadmill. I took like a 2 or 3 minute break by just lowering the speed down to a almost a walking speed and increased back to running(9.5), but I was able to do it.
A couple of months back it woulda taken me 15 mins just to get to 1.5 miles I guess my cardio day still helped me lol.


----------



## stealthylizard

Don't trust the treadmill to be an accurate gauge of time to cover a distance.  Find a track, with a known distance (most outdoor ones are a 400m oval).


----------



## Ludoc

You need to start running more, running is a big part of the PT on BMQ and will be a factor in your follow on training.

Get off the treadmill and go outside. Running on a treadmill is a good way to get your cardio up but at this point you need to acclimate your body to the type of running you will be doing in BMQ. Running on pavement is different than running on a treadmill, start getting used to it now. Additionally, you need get used to running in the cold, you will want to be ready to run outside when you get to St Jean.


----------



## Troubleman24

Welp so I guess this settles it.

I'll use the gym 3 days a week now(push/pull/legs) and allocate the other 2 to running outside in my neighbourhood, and another day will be during my RIC Training since I think that they make us run outside as well? This would give me 3 running days per week.

I just hope I just don't lose too much weight since it's extremely hard for me to keep it due to my fast metabolism. I'm about 6'1 and I fluctuate from 180 to 186.


----------



## clgrip

Increase your caloric intake to make up for the added PT, you'll maintain your weight fine. 

Bmq isn't the running nightmare these guys make it out to be. Most moderately fit individuals do fine in BMQ untrained,  your fitness will likely have you at the top. Definitely throw in a 5km once in a while, but your HIIT training is going to benefit you more. If you enjoy your current strength training, don't feel as though continuing it is going to hinder you.


----------



## Troubleman24

So i was finally able to start it today.
I did 2.65km in 14:27.  :facepalm:
It was really my first time running outside in the snow and plus the ice  .
I definitely need to step it up and do it 3 times per week for sure.
The cold annoyed me even more than my breath tho I definitely need better gloves.
Thanks for all the tips guys.


----------



## drbones

I find it takes me 2 weeks until my body has adjusted to cold winter running. Really pay attention to your footing. I can't say how many I took a nice spill, when I was not paying attention.


----------



## BorisK

I'm not mentioning them because of some kind of endorsement, but at the store/retailer I frequent ('Running Room') they helped me gear up for running comfortably in the cold.  If you haven't been there I'd have to say I'm pretty happy with their service everytime I've been in.  The stuff isn't free, but it's usually all good quality products.  

As a bonus - serving military members with ID get a 10% discount.  

Most of the stores have a free 'run club' Wednesday's around 6pm and Sunday's around 8am - no pressure, no performance expectations - just show up and have fun.  It's a nice change from running on your own.  They have different paced groups usually (everything from slow pokes to marathoners so there is a speed for anyone).  Wednesday's are normally shorter faster runs & or hills. 
Sunday's are normally longer slower.  

Worth visiting to those who haven't been to the place.  

Good luck to all with your fitness goals.


----------



## jwtg

Troubleman24 said:
			
		

> I did 2.65km in 14:27.  :facepalm:
> It was really my first time running outside in the snow and plus the ice  .



Treadmills and cardio machines are fine for improving your cardio level but they are poor predictors of actual running performance.  The only way to get better at running is to run, and run properly.  

- Mix sprints/intervals into your running
- Keep doing long runs because these will help with your physical conditioning, getting your feet and muscles used to pounding the pavement
- Stretch your calves to fend off shin splints

If you're lifting weights regularly (assuming appropriate weights and correct technique), then your strength level is probably fine for BMQ.  You will do a bunch of push-ups when you get yelled at by your staff, you'll carry a bit of gear for your ruck marches, and you will probably have to carry jerry cans/stretchers/etc. as part of your small party tasks.  Also, the PSP tend to lead creative PTs sessions which require some strength.  *Most of your PT will probably be running.*  

So, to answer your question, yes, you should absolutely change your routine.  You should be doing more cardio.


----------



## Troubleman24

One last question for the BMQ when you are timed when it comes to the running test do they expect you to run in the sludgy snow? cuz I did like 2.65 km in 14:56 mins at 5:38 min/km at 1 or zero degree weather while last sunday I was able to do it in 13:06 min at 4:58 min/km and it between -10 or -12 degrees and I got a lil fever afterwards and felt like crap.

My longest was caused cuz I couldn't really run as fast as I wanted cuz last thing I needed is to take a bad fall and break something before my BMQ whereas my fastest time happened cuz the streets were kinda clear had ice but it was really manageable.


----------



## PMedMoe

Troubleman24 said:
			
		

> One last question for the BMQ when you are timed when it comes to the running test do they expect you to run in the sludgy snow? Because cuz I did like 2.65 km in 14:56 mins at 5:38 min/km at 1 or zero degree weather while last sunday I was able to do it in 13:06 min at 4:58 min/km and it between -10 or -12 degrees and I got a little lil fever afterwards and felt like crap.
> 
> My longest was caused because cuz I couldn't really run as fast as I wanted because cuz last thing I needed is to take a bad fall and break something before my BMQ whereas my fastest time happened because cuz the streets were kind of kinda clear had ice but it was really manageable.



Please attempt to use English properly.  According to the guidelines: "You will not use excessive webspeak, or other shorthand styles of typing. Please use English or French to the best of your ability; this makes it easier for those who are not posting in their native language."

And I'm pretty sure you didn't get a fever because you ran in cold temperatures.....   :


----------



## Sarah_H

I'm half way through BMQ, so here are my pointers. I'm just going to be general. Work on building up your endurance because you will need it. One thing some of our staff likes to do is (if someone fucks up) is have us all hold the push up position or plank or dead cockroach. Doesn't sound too hard, but when you're holding it for an extended period of time because someone can't straighten their back/legs. A few times after PT, if people were running late our staff made us hold our PT kit bags over our heads. Sounds simple but when you're holding it for a few mins, it's brutal. 

here's a list of what in our PT bag:

short PT clothes
long PT clothes
running shoes
combats (pants, t-shirt, tunic, boots)
shower kit (towel, flip flops, shampoo, soap, deoderant)
socks & underwear


----------



## Troubleman24

Sarah_H said:
			
		

> I'm half way through BMQ, so here are my pointers. I'm just going to be general. Work on building up your endurance because you will need it. One thing some of our staff likes to do is (if someone ****s up) is have us all hold the push up position or plank or dead cockroach. Doesn't sound too hard, but when you're holding it for an extended period of time because someone can't straighten their back/legs. A few times after PT, if people were running late our staff made us hold our PT kit bags over our heads. Sounds simple but when you're holding it for a few mins, it's brutal.
> 
> here's a list of what in our PT bag:
> 
> short PT clothes
> long PT clothes
> running shoes
> combats (pants, t-shirt, tunic, boots)
> shower kit (towel, flip flops, shampoo, soap, deoderant)
> socks & underwear


Yeah got all that ready.
Started recently.
One thing I know for sure.
IS that.... leg day. I'M NOT doing it for a longgggggggggggg time 
I mean when I do leg day i feel it for the next 2-3 days and well my mobility is really really bad lol,but with BMQ on the weekends I'd would have to do it on a monday and I have to go to my unit on tuesdays, and well PT will surely happen there and I won't be able to perform like I would like too. I'ma lay off my legs and just keep on working in my push and pull day and well I guess do my legs during the BMQ with their PT.


----------



## Urocyon Cinereoargenteus

Anyone done the FORCE test lately? 
I understand scheduling difficulties; but Im wondering why its a 4 hour appointment for a relatively quick series of tests? Also Why they don't recommend eating for two+ hours prior to 'the test' as (based on my appointment) that would leave people without eating anything till mid afternoon. 
And no coffee?? Really? I drink coffee before my 10k runs regularly... Or is that just to keep people from failing their blood pressure test?


----------



## cryco

Did it very recently. It's less than four hours, but there were less than 10 people taking the test.
Depending on where it's held (how small the gym is), you may only be able to do the tests only 2 or 3 at a time - as was our case. 
The instructor takes the time to explain everything.
Also gives you some time to warm up.
You take your blood pressure before you do the tests, so they don't want it elevated to make sure it's a good reading, hence the no coffee.
My test was scheduled for 14:00, and we were gone by 16:00.
And if you're in anything considered decent shape, it's a joke. really. We competed to see how fast we could do some of the events, but you can take your sweet time except for the first one, you have 51 seconds to do so. No one was slower than 43 seconds.


----------



## dapaterson

There is talk of adding inccentives to the FORCE program, both individual and group.


----------



## cryco

What do you mean by incentives? Reward better scores?


----------



## ballz

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There is talk of adding inccentives to the FORCE program, both individual and group.



I just started an incentive program within my platoon. We will test every 3 months, if you get 4/5 you get a week of PT on your own time, if you get 5/5 you get a day off (a short from the CO) and a week of PT on your own time. If you can maintain that standard, it ends up as 4 days off a year. The troops seem to be interested.

The standard is
5km run < 23m
Minimum 7 Chin-ups

1 RM max, measured by doing 5 reps 
(so for 200 lbs you need to do 5 reps of 185 lbs, 300 lbs is 5 reps of 267, and 400 lbs is 5 reps of 355)
Bench press - 1x Bodyweight
Squat - 1.5x Bodyweight
Deadlift - 2x Bodyweight

It also had the added benefit of getting troops interested in doing compound lifts. We're trying to do a technique lass with the PSP every couple of weeks as most people aren't familiar with the lifts (which is a real shame considering we're an infantry platoon).


----------



## Urocyon Cinereoargenteus

Thanks for the feedback! Just so Im clear; am I correct in understanding that there are no incentives to give it your best? Just a pass or fail? Even if it was scored it would give me something to compete against next year.


----------



## LightFighter

Urocyon Cinereoargenteus said:
			
		

> Thanks for the feedback! Just so Im clear; am I correct in understanding that there are no incentives to give it your best? Just a pass or fail? Even if it was scored it would give me something to compete against next year.




Right now, there is no points to the test, just pass/fail. Your results/times are still recorded though, and a point/level system may be developed, it has been talked about for awhile at least. Something like an extra point on your PER if you score high, etc. I don't think there will be an exempt the following year like the Express test had - even with that,  you could score exempt and still be required to do it the next year, or on a course, etc.



			
				cryco said:
			
		

> We competed to see how fast we could do some of the events, but you can take your sweet time except for the first one, you have 51 seconds to do so. No one was slower than 43 seconds.



There is no standardized "first one". The test can start on any of the events(except sandbag drag), but it will always follow a certain order.


----------



## cryco

ballz said:
			
		

> I just started an incentive program within my platoon. We will test every 3 months, if you get 4/5 you get a week of PT on your own time, if you get 5/5 you get a day off (a short from the CO) and a week of PT on your own time. If you can maintain that standard, it ends up as 4 days off a year. The troops seem to be interested.
> 
> The standard is
> 5km run < 23m
> Minimum 7 Chin-ups
> 
> 1 RM max, measured by doing 5 reps
> (so for 200 lbs you need to do 5 reps of 185 lbs, 300 lbs is 5 reps of 267, and 400 lbs is 5 reps of 355)
> Bench press - 1x Bodyweight
> Squat - 1.5x Bodyweight
> Deadlift - 2x Bodyweight
> 
> It also had the added benefit of getting troops interested in doing compound lifts. We're trying to do a technique lass with the PSP every couple of weeks as most people aren't familiar with the lifts (which is a real shame considering we're an infantry platoon).



hell, I'm not in and I'm motivated by that! That looks great! The only thing that would make me cringe is the 23m 5k run. And a 460lb 1 rep max deadlift is a little disconcerting.


----------



## Urocyon Cinereoargenteus

The FORCE test went well; the hardest thing to contend with was the slipper floor and overstepping/sliding on the marker lines. Id agree with the comment that times are generous and even the moderately fit can pass.
Thanks for everyones input.


----------



## daftandbarmy

I'm scheming up a test where we complete the load bearing march, then do the FORCE Fit immediately afterwards, wearing body armour and helmets.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it should only take a maximum of 3 hours I'm thinking.

Together, that sounds like a good infantry/combat arms test. What do you think?


----------



## ballz

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I'm scheming up a test where we complete the load bearing march, then do the FORCE Fit immediately afterwards, wearing body armour and helmets.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it should only take a maximum of 3 hours I'm thinking.
> 
> Together, that sounds like a good infantry/combat arms test. What do you think?



Not bad at all. Instead of the LBM I'd go with 60 lbs, 8km, at a pretty quick clip (one because its better PT and two so it doesn't take all day). Followed by the FORCE in full kit is a good add-on and good way to get something out of the FORCE.


----------



## cryco

Hey Ballz, I took a closer look at your incentive targets and realized, I'd have to do 5 deadlift reps at 400lbs and 300lb for the squat. That's pretty intense. Is this something your men and women frequently achieve? I like to think I'm pretty strong but squatting 3 plates and deadlifting 4 is something I've only done at my prime, when I used to hit the gym 5 days a week.


----------



## ballz

cryco said:
			
		

> Hey Ballz, I took a closer look at your incentive targets and realized, I'd have to do 5 deadlift reps at 400lbs and 300lb for the squat. That's pretty intense. Is this something your men and women frequently achieve? I like to think I'm pretty strong but squatting 3 plates and deadlifting 4 is something I've only done at my prime, when I used to hit the gym 5 days a week.



Assuming you are 230 lbs from your previous post.... You'd have to bench for 205 for 5 reps, squat 305 for 5 reps, deadlift 410 for 5 reps. 7 Chin-ups, and a 5km run < 23min.

We haven't done any testing for it yet, the first test is scheduled for March 26th (this has been ongoing since Jan 5, first day back to work in the New Year), so no one has done it yet. Doing a straw pole, there was no one in the platoon that felt they could do it when we first started, but a few could do 4 out 5.

It is not unachievable. Even the PSP staff, who expressed some concerns with having guys do this, said the goals of 1, 1.5, and 2x bodyweight were pretty reasonable. When you start putting those numbers up, you at the begging of "intermediate" powerlifting. Same with the run, a sub-23 5km run is by no means unachievable for any human being. The combination of all 5 means you are someone who takes your training seriously and probably have been for a while.

Remember, this is a fitness incentive for my platoon meant to reward those who are very fit, the CO is personally giving a day off work for attaining this standard, it is not meant to be easy. I don't expect more than 2 people to attain 5/5 this March 26th, and I sure won't. But, the test will ran every 3 months, so if one can only achieve 4/5 this time around, he can probably get to 5/5 next time around (end of June). It definitely is a S.M.A.R.T. goal, depending on your current fitness level it may not be achievable in 3 months but for most in my platoon, if they put the effort in, I would bet they can achieve it in 6 - 9 months.


Personally the biggest problem I am having with it is trying to maintain my running while putting up the weights... I find when you start lifting heavy and doing 5 reps, etc, your legs start to seize up faster than usual when you run. Those focussing on running and trying to maintain their ability to put up the weight are having an easier time with it from what I can tell.


----------



## cryco

Ok, makes sense; you are rewarding that with a paid day off and one week of PT on your own time. It is challenging though. I could never come close to that time for the 5k when lifting weights in that range. I'm in the midst of a 5x5 lift program now to break some new highs, but my running is suffering (weighing 230 doesn't help my running)
Either way, I can appreciate the goals you set for them. Good stuff.


----------



## daftandbarmy

ballz said:
			
		

> Not bad at all. Instead of the LBM I'd go with 60 lbs, 8km, at a pretty quick clip (one because its better PT and two so it doesn't take all day). Followed by the FORCE in full kit is a good add-on and good way to get something out of the FORCE.



I like the idea of chopping it to 8kms. We could easily do this in the course of a single parade night then.


----------



## joning soon.

RJG said:
			
		

> Within the past month I have been jogging outside to get back in shape. I used to be able to run ten kilometers with no problem, but recently I noticed that after one kilometer my chest is killing me. I am extremely fit when it comes to weightlifting, so when I am done jogging my legs and arms are not hurting at all.


 your chest soreness could just be a problem with frequency, I know that for me taking just three days off regular exercise makes my chest hurt as well.


----------



## Loachman

After eleven years, RJG has likely found the cause of his problem and had it cured, or died from it.

We await your responses to posts from 2003 with unimaginable eagerness.

Please define "joning". I am unfamiliar with the term.


----------



## Good2Golf

Loachman said:
			
		

> ...Please define "joning". I am unfamiliar with the term.



I think he/she meant to say "jonesing."


----------



## Loachman

Urban Distionary does indeed offer some explanation.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Joning

Joning: "Making fun of a person to the point where they laugh uncontollably (or either feel like crying) <--- usually this one.
Usually just sayin' ridiculous shit that comes off the top of your head. The truest jones are the funniest ones.
The worst is group joning. Its halarious (sic - Urban Dictionary contributors should use real dictionaries to check their spelling) when you're high."


----------



## RussTheMann

Hi everybody, 

Im currently finishing up my 2nd year of university, and I  have my eye set on joining the forces; most likely going in as an NCM as I feel that I'd much rather become 'one of the boys' and at least at this point from the outside looking in, try and take some more advanced courses to fulfill my service to Canada. 
I'm playing varsity level rugby for my university here in BC in the Premier division (for any of you rugby guys out there you know the ferocity of this league), and Ive always been an extremely  fit person. I can run 2.4 km (1.5 miles) in 9:35, 8 km in 37 minutes, do around 50 pushups before my arms start to quake (thats elbows lateral, not army pushups mind you), and a number of other numbers that probably really don't matter.
Assuming I can retain these levels of anaerobic capacity and get accepted into BMQ, will this level of fitness be diminished in any way? I don't want to sound like someone sitting on a high horse but I know how important it is to be extremely fit going into BMQ for infantry trade, so if possible I'd like to retain these levels once going to infantry school (assuming I make it through BMQ with no injuries). Any tips or tricks, questions or sheer slap-in-the-face answers are greatly appreciated!

Cheers


----------



## RussTheMann

Ahhh thanks,
I've pretty much got the nutrition and physical aspects on point due to my regular training with my sport team, but greatly appreciated!


----------



## Al101

Hey guys,

I wasn't exactly sure where to put this... I thought of making a thread on the "Recruits Only" but I figured making a thread somewhere else, where people with over 250 posts can reply to, would help me out better.

Anyways. I'll get to the point. I'd like to show my workout routine, as well as my studying stuff just to get some advice to see if I'm doing something wrong or if I could do something different, maybe better. I have recently changed it up, so some of these are relatively new to me, so I'm not exactly very good at them just yet. Allow me, then!

My daily routine consists of:
After wake up and before sleep. Hand grips.
*Morning* - Power Yoga. From 430am.
*Afternoon* - Chopping Wood 30min, then Skipping Rope 30min. From 4-5pm.
*Evening* - Weights/Bodyweight Exercises. From 9-10pm.

Allow me to explain these in detail!

*Hand Grips*. 55 Handgrips each side, each hand. After waking up, and before bed. Increasing by 5 every week until 75 or 100. (We'll see when we get there.)
1st – Both hands top
2nd – Both hands bot
3rd – Right Hand top then bot
4th – Left Hand top then bot
I've found a picture of what I use: https://www.google.ca/search?q=Hand+Grips&biw=1920&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIovue8e-TxgIVgjGICh1ZEwP4#imgrc=88Nw-B6akUMN4M%253A%3ByX5_SdiuScImWM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.reflexpainmanagement.com%252Fimages%252Fcategories%252FFoam%252520Hand%252520grips.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.reflexpainmanagement.com%252Fexercise-and-strengthening-aids-c-66.html%3B650%3B650
Apologies for the massive link, but just in case people were wondering. Also, if you don't know what I mean by "top" and "bot". I just mean I flip it upside down (bot). I have no clue if it has any difference, but why not?


*Morning*. Power Yoga. Pretty self-explanatory. I usually do it for over an hour. Nothing else I can say, to be honest. It definitely sucks to do it but afterwards, I'm not even slightly sore, I love it.

*Afternoon*. This is something new that I added to my routine. It definitely helped me out a lot, in terms of grip and whatnot. Skipping Rope, I'm fairly new to it as well. I cannot yet do 30mins in ONE go, but whenever I mess up, I just restart and keep going until the 30 minutes is up.

*Evening*.
*Monday/Wednesday/Friday* - Weights at the gym. Adding 5lbs per week until I can't no more. My routine below:
Squats - 5x5
Bench Press - 5x5
Overhead Press - 5x5
Barbell Row - 5x5
Deadlift 1x5

Now, you may notice I use the 5x5, and it seems some people say, "You shouldn't do all of those in the same day!" or "You shouldn't do that many deadlifts after!". Truthfully, it works for me, and I have been doing these for months. No sign of overtraining or anything bad.

*Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday* - Bodyweight exercises. It is quite simple but I've added some variety there. This is also a newly, improved routine. My routine below:
10 Reg Push Ups, 2nd Inverted, 3rd Diamond, 4th Inverted, 5th Explosive
10 Jumping Jacks
10 Burpees
10 Reg Squats, 2nd Lateral Lunges, 3rd Reg Squat, 4th Lateral Lunges, 5th Reg Squat
10 Crunches, 2nd Circles, 3rd Single Leg Lift, 4th Single Leg Circles, 5th Pulsators
30sec Reg Plank, 2nd Star Plank, 3rd Reg Plank, 4th Star Plank, 5th Reg Plank

That's one set. Complete 5 sets in total. Increasing by 1 rep each/5 sec every week until I see fit to stop.

Now you may notice I do not have any actual RUNNING. That's when advice would go well. I realize we'll be doing lots of running, but I can't help to notice I'm doing quite a hell of a lot of cardio which is not just stationary cardio, but rather moving the entire body, much like running. Also, I do not have any Pull Ups. That would be because I do not have a machine, nor is there a park around here with anything for me to hang on, and I'm just making up excuses. I hate pull ups. I will fix it. I will add them to my program.

Keep in mind, I've been doing these for some time now, and I am in no way exhausted by the end of the day. I mean, yes, I'm sore as should be expected, but I could keep going. I don't believe I am overtraining as there hasn't been any signs. Please let me know if this workout routine is good enough, and what should/could be changed, if necessary. I am also eating healthy every day, not to worry!


Now in terms of *Studying*...

I've applied to the military before, back in 2013, but I failed because I wasn't taking anything serious in my life. Nothing at all. I was told I failed by one point, which really sucks but I'm glad that it happened. Some time after that, I finally started to... "try again". So at the moment, I do the following:

I'm using study sheets that contains advanced english words with their meanings and uses in a sentence. (about 25 pages, I believe).
I'm also using study sheets for Math that I had printed from before, which contains a multiplication table, fractions and etc. Gotta remember the basics. Division is actually very difficult for me as it was extremely different in Brazil, so I'm trying to... learn to do it in my head, because it's actually quite confusing when writing it down.
I've been using websites like Math.com and Khanacademy.org for Math. I'd like to try and get 100% completion on all of the topics in KhanAcademy.org so that I can print that out and show it to them as I have to provide "proof" that I've been actually studying and whatnot in order to -TRY- and get a 2nd chance. (Which, by the way, they REALLY need to update their main website about that and other things)
I've been reading self-help books for some general knowledge of anything and everything (Why not?) as well as GED books to keep it fresh.

I'm hoping to reapply in maybe... I don't know, 2-3 months from doing all of this, without missing anything and whatnot, since I have modified it. By the way, forgot to mention. Infantry NCM is my chosen profession.

Please let me know what you think, any advice/tips would be great.

Thanks!


----------



## mariomike

Al101 said:
			
		

> I wasn't exactly sure where to put this...



Physical Fitness (Jogging, Diet, Cardiovascular, and Strength )
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23364.400



			
				Al101 said:
			
		

> Now in terms of *Studying*...
> 
> I've applied to the military before, back in 2013, but I failed because I wasn't taking anything serious in my life. Nothing at all. I was told I failed by one point, which really sucks but I'm glad that it happened.



Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0



			
				Al101 said:
			
		

> I'm also using study sheets for Math that I had printed from before, which contains a multiplication table, fractions and etc. Gotta remember the basics.



?MATH? 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/109763/post-1214925.html#msg1214925
Reply #8



			
				Al101 said:
			
		

> By the way, forgot to mention. Infantry NCM is my chosen profession.



CFAT infantry score  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/110464/post-1227847.html#msg1227847


----------



## Al101

Mariomike,

Thanks for your reply. I have already picked this entire website clean, I was looking for more of a personal opinion on how I'm going about things.

Thanks, either way.


----------



## mariomike

Al101 said:
			
		

> I was looking for more of a personal opinion on how I'm going about things.



Without knowing you, it's difficult to say what is the best personal fitness routine for you. 
You may wish to add yours to the Physical Fitness (Jogging, Diet, Cardiovascular, and Strength ) mega-thread.

Good luck on your CFAT re-test.


----------



## Al101

Gotcha.

Thanks very much. Just posted there.

Apologies if I made this thread in the wrong place.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Al101 said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> 
> I wasn't exactly sure where to put this... I thought of making a thread on the "Recruits Only" but I figured making a thread somewhere else, where people with over 250 posts can reply to, would help me out better.
> 
> Anyways. I'll get to the point. I'd like to show my workout routine, as well as my studying stuff just to get some advice to see if I'm doing something wrong or if I could do something different, maybe better. I have recently changed it up, so some of these are relatively new to me, so I'm not exactly very good at them just yet. Allow me, then!



My personal feeling is you're trying to do to much without a specific goal in mind.  You need to understand the difference between training and exercise.

Exercise is defined as:  activity requiring physical effort, carried out especially to sustain or improve health and fitness.

Training is defined as:  to get oneself into condition for an athletic performance through exercise, diet, practice, etc

Now the two meanings are very similar; however, they are different as one is general and the other is specific.  You will get in better shape exercising, there is no question; however, is it necessarily the shape you want to be in?  This is where training comes into play.  A pushup is an exercise, doing a set number of pushups in a circuit for time is training.  In essence, training is a prescription with the aim of achieving a certain affect.  In your case, preparing you to enter the military as an infantry NCM.

So how would I rate your program?  As an infantry officer I would say it needs some work.  I stand by my statement that you are doing too much without enough prescription and at the end of the day you're turning the wheels really fast but not getting anywhere.

Let me elaborate:



> Monday/Wednesday/Friday - Weights at the gym. Adding 5lbs per week until I can't no more. My routine below:
> Squats - 5x5
> Bench Press - 5x5
> Overhead Press - 5x5
> Barbell Row - 5x5
> Deadlift 1x5



Ok your weightlifting, what are the numbers you're putting up.  You could be doing 5x5 but I can't evaluate your program if I don't know what you are actually lifting?  I also need to know how much strength you have gained from where you started to where you are now?  

Also, those people who told you not to do all those exercises in one day are right and the reason you shouldn't is because you aren't optimizing your maximum lifting potential by doing so.  5x5 is a good program, I've used it before myself but you need to split up the workouts to achieve the maximum benefit.

You should be doing an A/B split

Workout A:

Squats
Bench Press
Rows (Really should be doing Powercleans but I know they are difficult to learn)

Workout B:  

Squats
Overhead Press
Deadlift

You altnernate between A/B workout to give your muscles maximum time to recover, otherwise you are going in circles.  if the purpose of your training is to get stronger, doing every single lift in one day is not a good idea and I highly doubt you are making big gains in terms of strength.  If you are making gains it's because your a novice lifter which we like to call the novice effect in weightlifting, i.e. you'll get better no matter what you do but again this is training and not exercise so you need a prescription to achieve the best results.



> Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday - Bodyweight exercises. It is quite simple but I've added some variety there. This is also a newly, improved routine. My routine below:
> 10 Reg Push Ups, 2nd Inverted, 3rd Diamond, 4th Inverted, 5th Explosive
> 10 Jumping Jacks
> 10 Burpees
> 10 Reg Squats, 2nd Lateral Lunges, 3rd Reg Squat, 4th Lateral Lunges, 5th Reg Squat
> 10 Crunches, 2nd Circles, 3rd Single Leg Lift, 4th Single Leg Circles, 5th Pulsators
> 30sec Reg Plank, 2nd Star Plank, 3rd Reg Plank, 4th Star Plank, 5th Reg Plank
> 
> That's one set. Complete 5 sets in total. Increasing by 1 rep each/5 sec every week until I see fit to stop.



So by doing this type of workout every Tuesday/Wednesday/Saturday you've basically nullified any potential gains in strength you would have made had you simply used the day to rest the muscle groups you are targeting because you already stressed them out to the maximum doing 5x5 the day before.  Doing squats again after you've already done heavy squats the day before is a really dumb idea tbh.  if your going to do that than there is really no point in even lifting weights as your weight workout is basically becoming an endurance workout and again is it the right kind of endurance?

A better idea would be to add pushups, chinups/pullups and core after your strength workout.  In weightlifting we call these accessory exercises as they aide in your strength progression by targeting specific muscle regions in a different way to create a stimulus.  It's this stimulus and confusion that allow your muscles to get stronger.

My suggestion would be to drop your Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday program and add some accessory exercises to your weightlifting program.

A common way to do this would be:

Workout A
Squats
Bench Press
Rows
Pushups 3x to Failure
3x12 Reverse crunches (you can look this up)

Workout B
Squats
Overhead Press
Deadlifts
Chinups/Pullups 3x to Failure alternating every workout
3xPlanks 60sec to start.... increase a little every workout

Now you are doing what you just did before only you are leaving time for proper recovery which is going to make you stronger.  The stronger you are, the better you will be.  If you can lift 2x your bodyweight 5 times, you'll be able to crank off pushups, squats, chinups like nobodies business.



> Now you may notice I do not have any actual RUNNING. That's when advice would go well. I realize we'll be doing lots of running, but I can't help to notice I'm doing quite a hell of a lot of cardio which is not just stationary cardio, but rather moving the entire body, much like running. Also, I do not have any Pull Ups. That would be because I do not have a machine, nor is there a park around here with anything for me to hang on, and I'm just making up excuses. I hate pull ups. I will fix it. I will add them to my program.
> 
> Keep in mind, I've been doing these for some time now, and I am in no way exhausted by the end of the day. I mean, yes, I'm sore as should be expected, but I could keep going. I don't believe I am overtraining as there hasn't been any signs. Please let me know if this workout routine is good enough, and what should/could be changed, if necessary. I am also eating healthy every day, not to worry!



Here is the thing, as an infanteer, you need to become the jack of all trades.  You need to be able to benchpress two plates with ease but you also need to be able to run and have a high level of cardiovascular endurance.

RUNNING is a necessary evil of the profession so you need to start doing it and learn to love it because you will be doing a lot of it.  Now there are different ways to train for running.  When people think of running, they think of going for a long, slow jog usually.  This is one way to train but is it the most effective?  In my experience not really.  

There are two types of exercise when we talk cardiovascular fitness, anaerobic and aerobic.

Aerobic literally means "relating to, involving, or requiring free oxygen"  while anaerobic literally means "living without air"

Now how does this relate to training?  There is a saying I've often heard in the military that "if you can run 5km, you can run 20km" now this isn't necessarily true; however, what they mean to say is if you can muster up the energy to run 5km you can probably run 20km albeit at a far slower pace.  Decreasing the time it takes for you to run 20km is where anaerobic fitness comes in.  

Anaerobic fitness is basically short duration, high intensity exercise designed to force your muscles to push themselves for longer periods of time.  In the military you need both anaerobic and aerobic fitness although we as an institution, much to our detriment, tend to only focus on the aerobic side of the house.  

I noted that you're skipping, skipping is great exercise and also great for both aerobic and anaerobic fitness.  You can also get creative with it by doing double-unders, crosses, different foot patterns, etc... so I would stick with it; however, I would shift your skipping to days you aren't lifting weights.  Maybe skip for 5 minutes as a weight warm up to get blood flowing but no more on those days.

I also wouldn't do it every single cardio session you have.  A great way to get in shape cardiovascularly is with High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT).  An example would be going for a 5km run and sprinting 200m, jogging 200m, and keep that up for the whole 5km.  It doesn't take long and you will stimulate both the aerobic and anaerobic systems at the same time.

You could also do sprints on a track 200m sprint, jog 200m, repeat 10x... etc...  I personally hate running, but am actually very good at it mostly because of all the HIIT I do.  

You need to be doing this sort of exercise if you plan on being in the infantry.  This is the type of stuff you will be doing.  Doing a Section Attack is much like high intensity interval training.  You also need to do a better job programming your training.  Most people have a tendency to want to do everything but you need to realize that you can't and you need to program accordingly.

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.


----------



## RelentlessTsunami

The above post is good the only part I disagree with is his split layout. You shouldn't be doing squats on the same day as bench as you will not get the best benefit out of one or the other, also doing back before press will lower your press numbers.

 Full body workouts are fine for a beginner, otherwise you can either do Upper/Lower split or more preferably Push/Pull/Legs. I personally do Upper/Lower split because it works for me, you need to find what works for you, but I suggest Push/Pull/Legs.

Workout A:
Bench Press/Variations
Overhead Press
Dips/Pushups
Any chest/tri/shoulder accessory you want

Workout B:
Squats
Any accessory leg movements you want to do

WorkoutC:
Deadlift (Stiff/RDL if you do front squat, otherwise conventional fine)
Rows
Pullups
Any Back/Bicep accessory movements you want to do


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

RelentlessTsunami said:
			
		

> The above post is good the only part I disagree with is his split layout. You shouldn't be doing squats on the same day as bench as you will not get the best benefit out of one or the other, also doing back before press will lower your press numbers.
> 
> Full body workouts are fine for a beginner, otherwise you can either do Upper/Lower split or more preferably Push/Pull/Legs. I personally do Upper/Lower split because it works for me, you need to find what works for you, but I suggest Push/Pull/Legs.



Mark Rippetoe, Bill Starr, Mehdi and other prominent strength coaches would surely disagree with you but I digress.  Squat is the building block of all lifts, your legs also make up roughly 50% of your body so you should work them every lifting workout.  We aren't working out to look good after all, if your doing it for those reasons, this isn't the thread for you. 

In any case, OP should try to get as strong as possible then harden himself up with a healthy dose of HIIT and some austere physical training.  Think Rope Climbing, Rucking, Tire Flips, Jerry Can Carries, etc....  

I won't get into a debate on this thread about what peck deck you should be doing/not doing/ how many curls you can do.  It's truly a waste of time.  Plenty of gym monkeys have made truly crap infantry soldiers, seen em with my own eyes and commanded a few.  

I agree with your point though that you need to figure out what works for you.


----------



## Al101

Hello!

RoyalDrew and RelentlessTsunami, thank you for your advice.

I have fixed my workout schedule, hopefully for the best. I'd love some new insight into it, and I do apologize if I blatantly just copied it outright.

Power Yoga in the morning.

55 Handgrips each side, each hand. After waking up, and before bed.
1st – Both hands top
2nd – Both hands bot
3rd – Right Hand top then bot
4th – Left Hand top then bot

*Monday/Wednesday/Friday, alternating A/B/A, B/A/B.*

I walk 3km to the gym there and back, and I also stretch before leaving the house and once I change in the gym. I figure that’s enough to get me warmed up.

*Workout A*
Squats, 5 sets of 5
Bench Press, 5 sets of 5
Power Clean, 5 sets of 5
Pushups 3x to Failure
Reverse Crunches 3x12

*Workout B*
Squats, 5 sets of 5
Overhead Press, 5 sets of 5
Deadlifts, 5 sets of 5
Chinups/Pullups 3x to Failure, alternating each workout
Planks 3x60sec, increasing by 5 seconds each workout

*Monday-Friday*
Morning – Yoga
Afternoon – (M,W,F) 5x10 each side Chopping Wood, followed by 10x 200m sprint, 200m jog back.
Afternoon – (T,T) 5x10 each side Chopping Wood, followed by 30min Jumping Rope.
Evening – (T,T) Regular 5km run.
*Saturday*
Morning – Yoga
Afternoon – 5x15 each side Chopping Wood, followed by 30min Jumping Rope.
Evening – 5km run sprinting 200m, 200m jog, repeat until finished.


Now, I'd hope this seems like a better, more realistic routine. You didn't mention anything about the Yoga, or chopping wood, so I'm guessing those are alright. However, I'd like to ask... for the pushups/planks, am I able to perhaps implement some sort of variety? For example, Star Planks are great. I hate them, but they're great. As well as different variations of the pushup.

Also, you said throw out the Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday routine, so I assumed it would be best to just do cardio instead. Regardless, please let me know how this new routine fares.

Thanks very much!


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Al101 said:
			
		

> Hello!
> 
> RoyalDrew and RelentlessTsunami, thank you for your advice.
> 
> I have fixed my workout schedule, hopefully for the best. I'd love some new insight into it, and I do apologize if I blatantly just copied it outright.
> 
> Power Yoga in the morning.
> 
> 55 Handgrips each side, each hand. After waking up, and before bed.
> 1st – Both hands top
> 2nd – Both hands bot
> 3rd – Right Hand top then bot
> 4th – Left Hand top then bot
> 
> *Monday/Wednesday/Friday, alternating A/B/A, B/A/B.*
> 
> I walk 3km to the gym there and back, and I also stretch before leaving the house and once I change in the gym. I figure that’s enough to get me warmed up.
> 
> *Workout A*
> Squats, 5 sets of 5
> Bench Press, 5 sets of 5
> Power Clean, 5 sets of 5
> Pushups 3x to Failure
> Reverse Crunches 3x12
> 
> *Workout B*
> Squats, 5 sets of 5
> Overhead Press, 5 sets of 5
> Deadlifts, 5 sets of 5
> Chinups/Pullups 3x to Failure, alternating each workout
> Planks 3x60sec, increasing by 5 seconds each workout
> 
> *Monday-Friday*
> Morning – Yoga
> Afternoon – (M,W,F) 5x10 each side Chopping Wood, followed by 10x 200m sprint, 200m jog back.
> Afternoon – (T,T) 5x10 each side Chopping Wood, followed by 30min Jumping Rope.
> Evening – (T,T) Regular 5km run.
> *Saturday*
> Morning – Yoga
> Afternoon – 5x15 each side Chopping Wood, followed by 30min Jumping Rope.
> Evening – 5km run sprinting 200m, 200m jog, repeat until finished.
> 
> 
> Now, I'd hope this seems like a better, more realistic routine. You didn't mention anything about the Yoga, or chopping wood, so I'm guessing those are alright. However, I'd like to ask... for the pushups/planks, am I able to perhaps implement some sort of variety? For example, Star Planks are great. I hate them, but they're great. As well as different variations of the pushup.
> 
> Also, you said throw out the Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday routine, so I assumed it would be best to just do cardio instead. Regardless, please let me know how this new routine fares.
> 
> Thanks very much!



Dude,

You don't need to do exactly what we tell you, just do some strength training mixed with a healthy dose of cardio and you will be fine.  Again, try not to do too much and make your workouts actually achievable.  I personally don't know where you find all the hours of the day to do all of this???


----------



## Al101

Hiya.

Alright, will do.

Basically, I do it a while before work, afterwards and at night. I don't have a girlfriend anymore, and I live in a different city than before, so I've got more time than anything.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

I just do StrongLifts 5x5 with light warmup cardio (M,W,F) and on non-workout days (Tu,Th,Sat) I do my heavy cardio (5km run, I've gone from 46 minutes to 32 minutes in 2 weeks).

My workouts never take more than an hour.


----------



## ballz

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> and on non-workout days (Tu,Th,Sat) I do my heavy cardio (5km run, I've gone from 46 minutes to 32 minutes in 2 weeks).



Congrats on your improvements, you are on the right track. Be aware, however, that 5km is not "heavy" cardio, and is probably the shortest distance you'll run for PT after joining the CAF. 

32 minutes would be a lot slower than you will be expected to run for a 5k. What is your exertion level like when running a 32 minute 5km? Would you say you could run and have a conversation at that pace? Sing a song? Or exerting yourself so hard you could barely put two or three words together at a time between breaths?

5x5 stronglifts or "starting strength" programs are excellent strength programs to begin.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

ballz said:
			
		

> Congrats on your improvements, you are on the right track. Be aware, however, that 5km is not "heavy" cardio, and is probably the shortest distance you'll run for PT after joining the CAF.
> 
> 32 minutes would be a lot slower than you will be forced to run. What is your exertion level like when running a 32 minute 5km? Would you say you could run and have a conversation at that pace? Sing a song? Or exerting yourself so hard you could barely put two or three words together at a time between breaths?
> 
> 5x5 stronglifts or "starting strength" programs are excellent strength programs to begin.



I should have elaborated, I do a 5k first thing in the mornings and HIIT later in the day. I have never been good at distance running and having been on many "Army 5k" (A.K.A. 10k) - I suffered greatly. A recent workplace injury didn't help me either and set me back over the last few months, but getting down to 32 minutes and not gasping for air (able to carry a conversation). I hope to be at 25 minutes by the end of the month.


----------



## ballz

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> I should have elaborated, I do a 5k first thing in the mornings and HIIT later in the day. I have never been good at distance running and having been on many "Army 5k" (A.K.A. 10k) - I suffered greatly. A recent workplace injury didn't help me either and set me back over the last few months, but getting down to 32 minutes and not gasping for air (able to carry a conversation). I hope to be at 25 minutes by the end of the month.



Last year I read the book "The Triathlete's Training Bible," by Joe Friel, a famous book amongst Triathletes. I've probably went cover to cover on it 3 or 4 times since then if you add up all the times I've read random parts. Anyway, one big thing I finally took the plunge on is training with a heart rate monitor, and it's made a big difference.

However, you don't need a heart rate monitor (although I'd recommend it). If you are running at a "conversation pace" then that's perfect. Keep doing that. By doing so you are working on your "base" endurance. However, I would say that instead of running for a certain distance and hoping to improve your time, I would say run for a certain time at that same intensity (conversation pace) and work to increase the time you spend running at that intensity. The slow-twitch muscle fibres don't recognize distance, they only recognize time. If you start coming down from 30 minutes to 25 minutes you are actually not helping your endurance (you are helping "speed" but that's a whole other topic). If you go from 30 minutes to 35 to 40 to 45 to 50 etc ... then you are building up endurance.

Speed (which is just the efficiency of movement) will actually increase as a bi product just from logging all the miles, so your 5km time improve anyway, but that's just a bonus.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

ballz said:
			
		

> Last year I read the book "The Triathlete's Training Bible," by Joe Friel, a famous book amongst Triathletes. I've probably went cover to cover on it 3 or 4 times since then if you add up all the times I've read random parts. Anyway, one big thing I finally took the plunge on is training with a heart rate monitor, and it's made a big difference.
> 
> However, you don't need a heart rate monitor (although I'd recommend it). If you are running at a "conversation pace" then that's perfect. Keep doing that. By doing so you are working on your "base" endurance. However, I would say that instead of running for a certain distance and hoping to improve your time, I would say run for a certain time at that same intensity (conversation pace) and work to increase the time you spend running at that intensity. The slow-twitch muscle fibres don't recognize distance, they only recognize time. If you start coming down from 30 minutes to 25 minutes you are actually not helping your endurance (you are helping "speed" but that's a whole other topic). If you go from 30 minutes to 35 to 40 to 45 to 50 etc ... then you are building up endurance.
> 
> Speed (which is just the efficiency of movement) will actually increase as a bi product just from logging all the miles, so your 5km time improve anyway, but that's just a bonus.



Interesting, I'll keep that in mind.


----------



## RelentlessTsunami

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Mark Rippetoe, Bill Starr, Mehdi and other prominent strength coaches would surely disagree with you but I digress.  Squat is the building block of all lifts, your legs also make up roughly 50% of your body so you should work them every lifting workout.  We aren't working out to look good after all, if your doing it for those reasons, this isn't the thread for you.



 And the bulgarians don't train the way westerners do, and olympians train a lot different than almost anyone, pudzianowski has a program no one here would be able to follow, and California Strength/West Side Barbell have unique styles of lifting. Crossfitters will disagree with a lot of common training in a cult like manner.

 Working out isn't absolute and there is constantly new research coming out supporting different claims, getting rid of old found trusted knowledge and pointing to stuff people use to label as "silly".

Also people who commonly do big compound lifts multiple times a week do days of varying intensity (Heavy, med, light) following different percentages of rep maxs and eventually lead up to a deload week. 

edit: If you're going to tell someone to do multiple heavy exercises a week you should probably point them to an actual program (As it is not hard to find a link to any of the aforementioned programs. (I.e 5x5, 3x5, 3x3, Madcow) This will give them the tools they need to actually calculate their RM% and do the program properly. This will ensure they see the best gains as well as hopefully avoiding injury.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

RelentlessTsunami said:
			
		

> And the bulgarians don't train the way westerners do, and olympians train a lot different than almost anyone, pudzianowski has a program no one here would be able to follow, and California Strength/West Side Barbell have unique styles of lifting. Crossfitters will disagree with a lot of common training in a cult like manner.
> 
> Working out isn't absolute and there is constantly new research coming out supporting different claims, getting rid of old found trusted knowledge and pointing to stuff people use to label as "silly".
> 
> Also people who commonly do big compound lifts do days of varying intensity (Heavy, med, light) following different percentages of rep maxs and eventually lead up to a deload week.



Pudzilla?  You mean the the Polish Can Crusher?  Hardly a guy I would hold up as the pinnacle of what an infantry soldier should look like.  Don't get me wrong the guy is strong but is he really that athletic?  Not certain he has the type of athleticism I want soldiers emulating. 

He got whooped by a fat and out of shape Tim Sylvia after all and the only thing Tim Sylvia crushes nowadays are cheeseburgers and beer cans.







If you want to talk about Eastern Europeans someone else taught us that you shouldn't judge strength by looks....







Yep, if you're an infantry soldier, you should be aiming to move and act like Fedor, Pudzilla is the last thing you want to be.  For the record, Fedor would break Pudzilla in two.

Also, I'm not a crossfitter.


----------



## RelentlessTsunami

I don't really understand why you would use MMA as a reference. Roy Nelson would break most infanteers in half, however I don't think that's a level of fitness you should be emulating. 

 Considering there are medals of honors awarded to extremely slim, snake-like cardio machines: I hardly think using body shape and fitness is the absolute best value to look to for "pinnacle of what an infantry soldier should look like".


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

RelentlessTsunami said:
			
		

> I don't really understand why you would use MMA as a reference. Roy Nelson would break most infanteers in half, however I don't think that's a level of fitness you should be emulating.
> 
> Considering there are medals of honors awarded to extremely slim, snake-like cardio machines: I hardly think using body shape and fitness is the absolute best value to look to for "pinnacle of what an infantry soldier should look like".



My point is the infanteer needs to be good at everything but is a master of none when it comes to physical fitness.  Using Fedor Emelianenko as an example is perfect valid for this purpose.  The OP asked what training he should so to give him a better chance at being successful as an infanteer.  Telling him he should be seeking to emulate Marius Pudzianowski is not what I would call giving good advice.


----------



## RelentlessTsunami

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Telling him he should be seeking to emulate Marius Pudzianowski is not what I would call giving good advice.



 I don't recall ever saying that. My post was directed towards you showing that everyone has different methods of training. There are a lot of people who do 5x5 and ignore cardio to get the most out of their gains. You can do the same program for different purposes. I wouldn't post a picture of a fat powerlifter who squats multiple times a week to discredit your point, because it holds no weight. My point was simply that it's ignorant and foolish to hop on a bandwagon and just discredit other programs. To each their own.

 Also if you really want to make sure his program is designed specifically around being fit for a Soldier, why not just link him the Special Forces training manual that is readily available? It gives you a complete breakdown of workouts and rep ranges on a day to day basis and even auxiliary information. 

 edit: https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/Documents/JTF%20Pre-Fitness%20Manual%20ENG.pdf


----------



## Al101

I certainly appreciate that Manual. I'll have a look.

Thanks again, everyone.


----------



## PuckChaser

Keep in mind you need to be at a certain fitness level to start that training. I believe there's a test day right at the start to make sure.


----------



## Al101

Indeed. JTF2 is something I'd like to attempt in the future, so that's definitely helpful to know what I should be able to do by then. Much appreciated.


----------



## Mango

I have 4 years of weightlifting experience and to my knowledge a Push/Pull/Leg routine is best for bodybuilding not performance. What you should do to increase muscular strength and endurance is full body workouts or an upper body/lower body split. You won't put on as much muscle but fitness test scores will go through the roof.


----------



## RocketScientist

Mango said:
			
		

> I have 4 years of weightlifting experience and to my knowledge a Push/Pull/Leg routine is best for bodybuilding not performance.


YES! Finally, someone said it. This sounds like a purely bodybuilding routine, which would be fine if you wanted to "body-build", but not a good prep for a functional BMQ (read: strength and conditioning). No performance athlete/trainer will ever recommend exercises such as the leg presses, hamstring curls, tricep pull-downs, or isolated bicep curls (unless for rehab purposes).

Back Squats, Front Squats, Deadlifts, Bench-Press, Pull-ups, Push-ups, Power-Cleans, Burpees, HIIT sprints, Frog Jumps, etc. These are the exercises for developing functional Strength & Conditioning. And if you eat enough, you will add muscle.


----------



## RMJOE

I tend to do a hybrid work out the thing is you can't find a better way to get a functional body. Push ups, pull ups, chin ups, squats, TRX all of them all day ( anytime you can ) till fail. Running and walking every day, also do a lot of burpees most people hate them but they are a complete body exercise.


----------



## RelentlessTsunami

ACE_Engr said:
			
		

> YES! Finally, someone said it. This sounds like a purely bodybuilding routine, which would be fine if you wanted to "body-build", but not a good prep for a functional BMQ (read: strength and conditioning).



https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/6-day-powerbuilding-split-meal-plan

 Nick Ludow, 509ilb deadlift at 165ilbs/20years old. 

 There are a tonne of resources on muscleandstrength and bodybuilding.com geared towards athletics/performance and to no surprise there are push/pull/legs in there plenty. Push/Pull/Legs refers to a breakdown of the body groups you hit on those particular days not the actual exercises. Some are geared performance, some are geared bodybuilding.



> What you should do to increase muscular strength and endurance is full body workouts or an upper body/lower body split.



 Aside from beginners/teenagers, full body workouts are generally terrible as the main building block for strength gain and are usually used with a lot lighter loads as semi-recovery/high endurance days.


----------



## daftandbarmy

RelentlessTsunami said:
			
		

> https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/6-day-powerbuilding-split-meal-plan
> 
> Nick Ludow, 509ilb deadlift at 165ilbs/20years old.
> 
> There are a tonne of resources on muscleandstrength and bodybuilding.com geared towards athletics/performance and to no surprise there are push/pull/legs in there plenty. Push/Pull/Legs refers to a breakdown of the body groups you hit on those particular days not the actual exercises. Some are geared performance, some are geared bodybuilding.
> 
> Aside from beginners/teenagers, full body workouts are generally terrible as the main building block for strength gain and are usually used with a lot lighter loads as semi-recovery/high endurance days.



I remember big, muscly guys like these. Most of them didn't make it in the infantry.


----------



## George Wallace

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I remember big, muscly guys like these. Most of them didn't make it in the infantry.



Artillery would be a different story.

Even Armour.


----------



## jollyjacktar

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I remember big, muscly guys like these. Most of them didn't make it in the infantry.



I remember the first time I had contact with the A team guys when they were doing some exercises at Shearwater.  I was surprised to see that the majority of them were very toned and not the muscleheads of the movies.  Wirery as a matter of fact would be a good description.


----------



## daftandbarmy

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I remember the first time I had contact with the A team guys when they were doing some exercises at Shearwater.  I was surprised to see that the majority of them were very toned and not the muscleheads of the movies.  Wirery as a matter of fact would be a good description.



Yes, this kind of stuff tends to weed out the gym rats pretty quickly: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU62iYwpEmg


----------



## daftandbarmy

Annnnnnndddddd.... it's official!

Wimps are 'stronger than bodybuilders', study finds

A gram of bodybuilders' muscle is less powerful than the same amount of tissue from someone who did not weight train, tests show 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11900273/Wimps-are-stronger-than-bodybuilders-study-finds.html


----------



## AgentSmith

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Annnnnnndddddd.... it's official!
> 
> Wimps are 'stronger than bodybuilders', study finds
> 
> A gram of bodybuilders' muscle is less powerful than the same amount of tissue from someone who did not weight train, tests show
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11900273/Wimps-are-stronger-than-bodybuilders-study-finds.html



Can't say I'm surprised. Bodybuilders train for Hypertrophy, not for strength. They may be huge but aren't *that* strong at least if you compare them to someone training for strength (eg powerlifter or strongman)


----------



## oscy96

Hey guys. I have recently attained an offer of service as an Officer in the NZ Army, but I will not undergo my training until 2017. Starting February 2016 I will commence 4 months basic training, followed by 3 months core training as a soldier. I am currently 70kgs. With very little aerobic training, I ran the 2.4km in 8 minutes 50 seconds. Followed immediately by 48 pressups  (would have been more if my form wasn't so poor and a few weren't counted) and the max pressups of 130 where I was told to stop. Given my height of 5'8, would I benefit more going into basic with an extra 5kgs of bodyweight (not all muscle but big strength increase) and still working fitness, or would I be better off prioritizing my training on getting my pressups up and run time down. I have a little over 2.5 months of training left. Sorry about the novel and thanks in advance for any help


----------



## oscy96

Mate you're a legend. I'm an ex competitive swimmer and recently got back into it doing about 2 hours 5 times a week for fitness so that combined with weights/bodyweight exercises and running a few times a week should keep me on track. Just need to lay off the alcohol and not fall off my diet


----------



## daftandbarmy

oscy96 said:
			
		

> I am currently 70kgs.



Good luck if you go Infantry. Your ruck will weigh over 40 kilos at times.


----------



## oscy96

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Good luck if you go Infantry. Your ruck will weigh over 40 kilos at times.


So I've heard. Going to need to make sure my strength keeps up . Even a couple extra kgs bodyweight will make a difference I guess


----------



## Lumber

oscy96 said:
			
		

> Hey guys. I have recently attained an offer of service as an Officer in the NZ Army, but I will not undergo my training until 2017. Starting February 2016 I will commence 4 months basic training, followed by 3 months core training as a soldier. I am currently 70kgs. With very little aerobic training, I ran the 2.4km in 8 minutes 50 seconds. Followed immediately by 48 pressups  (would have been more if my form wasn't so poor and a few weren't counted) and the max pressups of 130 where I was told to stop. Given my height of 5'8, would I benefit more going into basic with an extra 5kgs of bodyweight (not all muscle but big strength increase) and still working fitness, or would I be better off prioritizing my training on getting my pressups up and run time down. I have a little over 2.5 months of training left. Sorry about the novel and thanks in advance for any help



If you can do the 2.4k run in 8mins and 50 seconds and can do 48 push-ups, then you really don't _need_ to work on anything else before basic. You're definitely in the higher range of fitness levels. Most of the people on my basic (like 75%) ran the 2.4k in more than 10 mins. Most couldn't do more than 40 push-ups. I hate to break it to you, but Basic Trg is not _that _ hard. 

That being said, I would personally work on my musuclar endurance, especially in the legs. You can run far and fast, but walking 7k-13k in full battle rattle will take more muscular endurance than cardiovasular endurance.


----------



## RocketRichard

Agree. You're fit enough for basic. Nothing wrong with getting fitter though.


----------



## reaman

Hey guys! I would just like to share my personal fitness transformation. I was actually underweight a few months ago and I could not do a SINGLE push-up! I really wanted to apply to the military but I was not at all confident in passing the physical requirements and so I postponed my application. 

7 months ago, I was about 110lbs. Focused on cardio, very minimal weight training. Unhealthy foods. 
0 push ups
0 pull ups
5 situps
Could run about 10 minutes max

Now, I weight about 117lbs. Cardio once a week. Weight training at least 3 times a week. My diet mainly consists of white rice, plain chicken breast, yogurt, fruits, veggies... I sometimes indulge in oreos and cookies.... that's pretty much it, believe me, it's BLAND as heck.
35 push ups
3 chin ups
1 pullup
60 situps
Could run average 30 minutes 

I plan my gym days as Cardio, Upper Body, and Lower Body. I recently started focusing more on Upper Body and it's really surprised me how effective it's been with my chinups! I did ONE chin up last week, and now 3!!!

To achieve your long-term goals and stay focused on them, you need to work on them regularly!  [


----------



## Lumber

rayyy said:
			
		

> I recently started focusing more on Upper Body and it's really surprised me how effective it's been with my chinups! I did ONE chin up last week, and now 3!!!
> 
> To achieve your long-term goals and stay focused on them, you need to work on them regularly!  [



Great to hear about your progress! Keep at it. And yes, chin-ups are an upper body exercise, mainly using back mussles. I don't know what you're doing at the gym, but if you're bored of doing chin-ups, don't forget that there  are a ton of back exercises that you can do that aren't chin ups!

As for food, your diet seems really healthy, but it doesn't need to be bland! Plain chicken and rice? What are you my dog when he has the runs? Jk! But seriously, if you are exercising and eating healthy foods, you can stand to throw on some tasty sauces or spices. The healthier, the better, such as home made honey mustard or hot sauce; but if you really are exercising as much as you say, and you aren't indulging in junk food, then even a hoisin or sweet teriyaki sauce isn't going to set you back. Maintaining a healthy lifestyle can be hard, and the more you enjoy it the easier it will be to maintain.


----------



## MaxZ

Hi Everybody,

I am meeting with a recruiter tomorrow to go over joining the reserves. I intend to join as soon as possible and train to become an officer (currently studying in university). I want to join either my local infantry or combat engineers regiment, however I may have to join armored because I have past injuries that interfere with walking and running long distances (especially with a pack). 

I am wondering if I go the infantry officer route, what are the standards for physical fitness that a great officer (who always leads PT from the front) has? And what would be a good training and diet approach to attain these standards? Should I bulk, cut or try a body re-comp?  I have access to a gym at my university. 

My current stats are:
Age: 19
Body Fat: about 15%
Height: 5'8" 

Running: 5k in 27 minutes
Pushups: 45
Chin ups: 13

Weights (1RM):
Squat: 215lbs
Bench: 185 lbs
Deadlift: 305lbs

TL;DR: What should my goal running and strength stats be at to be a successful Infantry officer?


----------



## daftandbarmy

MaxZ said:
			
		

> Hi Everybody,
> 
> I am meeting with a recruiter tomorrow to go over joining the reserves. I intend to join as soon as possible and train to become an officer (currently studying in university). I want to join either my local infantry or combat engineers regiment, however I may have to join armored because I have past injuries that interfere with walking and running long distances (especially with a pack).
> 
> I am wondering if I go the infantry officer route, what are the standards for physical fitness that a great officer (who always leads PT from the front) has? And what would be a good training and diet approach to attain these standards? Should I bulk, cut or try a body re-comp?  I have access to a gym at my university.
> 
> My current stats are:
> Age: 19
> Body Fat: about 15%
> Height: 5'8"
> 
> Running: 5k in 27 minutes
> Pushups: 45
> Chin ups: 13
> 
> Weights (1RM):
> Squat: 215lbs
> Bench: 185 lbs
> Deadlift: 305lbs
> 
> TL;DR: What should my goal running and strength stats be at to be a successful Infantry officer?



I hate to break it to you, but the armoured corps officers have to do some walking with us lower life form infantry types too, especially at Gagetown.

There's a lot of info on this forum already about what kind of training you need to do to be ready for Infantry Officer courses. Make your first recce assignment a search of the various pages on here.


----------



## Tengu

I realized i posted this in the wrong thread, so re-post:

Alright. I want to become an Intelligence Operator and do professionally what i basically already do in my free time. The problem is that me and physical fitness is like matter and antimatter. I don't go out, i sit in front of a computer 12 hours a day, i am 6 foot 300 pounds, and have slight hip dyslapsia, so i have a bit of a duck-like gait. I am not, and will never be an athlete. If i was in shape; i probably wouldn't have spent my life in front of a computer researching conflicts, military history, intelligence, doctrines and all that jazz; i would most probably be out enjoying the usual fruits of civilian life. Ask me about my hobbies, love life or favorite sports and i'll stare blankly; but ask me about Jabhat al-Nusra, the Russian Western Military District or Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and i can talk all day long. I am through and through a nerd, perhaps even a neckbeard. I am pretty proficient with a rifle, that's about it. Even if we consider the fact that if an IO needs to use his fitness in combat it probably means he's about to become a POW or KIA anyway because he has failed and the entire frontline has collapsed; is there any hope at all that i may be able to enter the forces?


----------



## George Wallace

Tengu said:
			
		

> I realized i posted this in the wrong thread, so re-post:
> 
> Alright. I want to become an Intelligence Operator and do professionally what i basically already do in my free time. The problem is that me and physical fitness is like matter and antimatter. I don't go out, i sit in front of a computer 12 hours a day, i am 6 foot 300 pounds, and have slight hip dyslapsia, so i have a bit of a duck-like gait. I am not, and will never be an athlete. If i was in shape; i probably wouldn't have spent my life in front of a computer researching conflicts, military history, intelligence, doctrines and all that jazz; i would most probably be out enjoying the usual fruits of civilian life. Ask me about my hobbies, love life or favorite sports and i'll stare blankly; but ask me about Jabhat al-Nusra, the Russian Western Military District or Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and i can talk all day long. I am through and through a nerd, perhaps even a neckbeard. I am pretty proficient with a rifle, that's about it. Even if we consider the fact that if an IO needs to use his fitness in combat it probably means he's about to become a POW or KIA anyway because he has failed and the entire frontline has collapsed; is there any hope at all that i may be able to enter the forces?





			
				Tengu said:
			
		

> Alright. I want to become an Intelligence Operator and do professionally what i basically already do in my free time. The problem is that me and physical fitness is like matter and antimatter. I don't go out, i sit in front of a computer 12 hours a day, i am 6 foot 300 pounds, and have slight hip dyslapsia, so i have a bit of a duck-like gait. I am not, and will never be an athlete. If i was in shape; i probably wouldn't have spent my life in front of a computer researching conflicts, military history, intelligence and all that jazz.  I am through and through a nerd, perhaps even a neckbeard. Even if we consider the fact that if an IO needs to use his fitness in combat it probably means he's about to become a POW or KIA anyway because the entire frontline has collapsed and Ivan or Hajji is already there; is there any hope at all that i may be able to enter the forces?




First:  It is really frowned upon to spam the site with basically the same question.

Second: If you are posting in this thread, perhaps you should read it.  There are many suggestions on Phuysical Fitness training, jogging, DIET, CARDIOVASCULAR, and strength training, etc. as the title of the thread suggest in this very thread.  Read and find some tips that will help you develop your abilities to run, do cardio, and perhaps lose weight.

Third:  We have a couple threads on becoming an Intelligence Operator or Intelligence Officer.  You need to develop your SEARCH skills if you want to become either one of them.  If you are incapable of finding information on the internet, then you are not going to make a good member of the Intelligence Branch in any capacity.


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, Tengu.

I am not sure why we have two lengthy threads regarding various aspects of fitness here. One might presume that there is sufficient difference between the two to warrant independent continuation of both, but there is more likely more commonality than difference.

Your mission, as this is a topic of immediate concern to you:

Read both, completely, and let me know if they should remain independent or be merged, and, briefly, why you recommended whatever course of action you did.

The notions of a "frontline" and its requirement to collapse in order for an Int guy, RMS Clerk, Supply Tech, or any other member of a support occupation to have to exert him or herself in close proximity to an enemy, are irrelevant. People continually moved between KAF and FOBs in Afghanistan, by road and by Helicopter. Vehicles were heavily damaged and destroyed by IEDs  and direct attack. One of our Chinooks was shot down, with, fortunately, no loss of life but not without injury. Four crewmembers and up to thirty passengers were scant seconds from a flaming death when the machine landed, and were even more lucky to get out before it was completely consumed.

There is frequently a need to construct shelters and defensive works, repair damage to those, and move supplies and materials by hand, in extreme hot and cold temperatures, at varying terrain elevations, possibly while wearing ballistic protection and load-bearing equipment.

Everybody has to meet the enrolment standards. Everybody is required to maintain at least the minimum level of medical and physical fitness, both common and occupational standards (where the latter exist). Everybody is required to be able to function with some measure of effectiveness in a combat situation. Everybody has to be deployable.

If you want to join, you will need to start working on your physical fitness.


----------



## Tengu

George Wallace said:
			
		

> First:  It is really frowned upon to spam the site with basically the same question.
> 
> Second: If you are posting in this thread, perhaps you should read it.  There are many suggestions on Phuysical Fitness training, jogging, DIET, CARDIOVASCULAR, and strength training, etc. as the title of the thread suggest in this very thread.  Read and find some tips that will help you develop your abilities to run, do cardio, and perhaps lose weight.
> 
> Third:  We have a couple threads on becoming an Intelligence Operator or Intelligence Officer.  You need to develop your SEARCH skills if you want to become either one of them.  If you are incapable of finding information on the internet, then you are not going to make a good member of the Intelligence Branch in any capacity.



First: Again sorry for the double-post; there is no "delete post" function that i could use, or else i would have removed the post in the other thread.

Second and third: 
And as a matter of fact i did read the thread, all of it; however i found little to no information for people who are don't simply have to work their shape up a bit; but have to start from less than absolutely nothing, who have to work their way up, at least as hard as the average joe has to work to reach "military fitness", to even reach the average joe's fitness level. People who want to join up tend to be on the athletic or at least reasonnably fit side and this thread is a reflection of that. 
Now i'm not idiot and i know the CF has no use for a couch potato, what i wanted to know was if i can get to a fitness level that, even if markedly below the average, is a quantum leap from before; is there something like a second chance? I read that there is RFT, however the information on that is more or less "work out enough and you won't need to worry about it". Well that's fine and dandy for someone who runs 5km in half an hour, but not exactly helpful for someone who *can't run 1km*. For information to be found, it must exist, i assure you my OSINT capability is very adequate. That's why i had to ask; to have a frank, no BS opinion. 



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> Welcome to Army.ca, Tengu.
> 
> I am not sure why we have two lengthy threads regarding various aspects of fitness here. One might presume that there is sufficient difference between the two to warrant independent continuation of both, but there is more likely more commonality than difference.
> 
> Your mission, as this is a topic of immediate concern to you:
> 
> Read both, completely, and let me know if they should remain independent or be merged, and, briefly, why you recommended whatever course of action you did.
> 
> The notions of a "frontline" and its requirement to collapse in order for an Int guy, RMS Clerk, Supply Tech, or any other member of a support occupation to have to exert him or herself in close proximity to an enemy, are irrelevant. People continually moved between KAF and FOBs in Afghanistan, by road and by Helicopter. Vehicles were heavily damaged and destroyed by IEDs  and direct attack. One of our Chinooks was shot down, with, fortunately, no loss of life but not without injury. Four crewmembers and up to thirty passengers were scant seconds from a flaming death when the machine landed, and were even more lucky to get out before it was completely consumed.
> 
> There is frequently a need to construct shelters and defensive works, repair damage to those, and move supplies and materials by hand, in extreme hot and cold temperatures, at varying terrain elevations, possibly while wearing ballistic protection and load-bearing equipment.
> 
> Everybody has to meet the enrolment standards. Everybody is required to maintain at least the minimum level of medical and physical fitness, both common and occupational standards (where the latter exist). Everybody is required to be able to function with some measure of effectiveness in a combat situation. Everybody has to be deployable.
> 
> If you want to join, you will need to start working on your physical fitness.


Right, thank you for your clear answer. It's obvious that today's asymmetrical warfare means that what was rear-line personnel yesteryear now face the same kinds of danger as the combat arms, and there's no such thing as a cozy office job when you're deployed somewhere (and i'm glad to hear that everybody made it out of that Chinook alive). What i was not sure about is wether or not the fitness standard (post basic qualification; occupational i think is the term) is the exact same across the forces, wether you are an infantryman or a clerk; and what exactly that occupational standard is. I'll go ask in the Int thread about that specificity, but i wanted to have a general idea.

As for the threads, it seems to me that while one's topic is Physical Fitness in general and the other specifically Running, they tend to talk about the same subject and turn around the same discussion points (fitness reqs, workouts, workout/running tips and advice). In my opinion there would be no problem if they were merged as running is such an integral part of fitness that you can't talk about one whitout talking about the other.


----------



## PuckChaser

RFT is a joke. If you want a place in the CAF, earn it by getting yourself in shape. We have too many people in the CAF who are markedly below average in fitness already. That fitness level directly relates to your ability to work long hours in stressful situations for 6-9 months without a day off. No one is expecting an IntOp to be SARTech fit, but you'd be working in a trade that is predominately EX-combat arms, who grew up in a culture of fitness.


----------



## TCM621

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> RFT is a joke. If you want a place in the CAF, earn it by getting yourself in shape. We have too many people in the CAF who are markedly below average in fitness already. That fitness level directly relates to your ability to work long hours in stressful situations for 6-9 months without a day off. No one is expecting an IntOp to be SARTech fit, but you'd be working in a trade that is predominately EX-combat arms, who grew up in a culture of fitness.


The problem is that we have a hard enough time getting people in at all. At least with RTF we get them in the door and make them somewhat fit. I had to do a PT test when I joined but it took me less than two month to get in from first contact. There are not enough  fit,  smart and willing to wait 9 month, people walking in our doors. There are a lot of fit people who need jobs but they need them now. If we can get those people through the door we can turn the other people away until they can pass a pt test.


----------



## PuckChaser

Those are 2 separate issues. One is a culture that endorses poor fitness with crap like RFT, and one is a poor system to complete paperwork in a timely fashion. They are completely unrelated. What good is a recruit if they're in fat camp for 2 months prior to starting training? They might as well stayed a civvie.


----------



## daftandbarmy

So here's a guy that wants to join but is nowhere near fit enough, and admits it.

BZ for that.

For people like this, why not screen them in for everything but do not enrol them. Give them a short course on fitness training, point them to a suitable fitness facility in their home town, then have them report in on a regular basis until they're fit enough to join?


----------



## PuckChaser

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> For people like this, why not screen them in for everything but do not enrol them. Give them a short course on fitness training, point them to a suitable fitness facility in their home town, then have them report in on a regular basis until they're fit enough to join?



We're not Health Canada, that's not the CAF's responsibility. We can barely keep track of applicants as it is.


----------



## cld617

Your physical stats are meaningless, anyone can get into shape, no one is exempt short of having some grave disability. 

Focus on a better diet, and improving your aerobic performance. My guess is as a guy your size, you likely already have a reasonable amount of power behind you from moving that weight around your entire life. What you don't have is the heart and lungs necessary to push those muscles. 

Best of luck.


----------



## AbdullahD

cld617 said:
			
		

> Your physical stats are meaningless, anyone can get into shape, no one is exempt short of having some grave disability.
> 
> Focus on a better diet, and improving your aerobic performance. My guess is as a guy your size, you likely already have a reasonable amount of power behind you from moving that weight around your entire life. What you don't have is the heart and lungs necessary to push those muscles.
> 
> Best of luck.



I'll just piggy back on this post.

Tengu (I believe it was), your saying you are horridly out of shape right? Well you could not have been any worse then me.

4 maybe 5 months ago It took me 40+ minutes to run 2.4km, I could barely do sit ups and well its best we dont even talk about push ups.

Now I am running 2.4km in 12 minutes and 45 seconds, I can do 50 sit ups in a row and I have done my first push up ever.

Now take this next bit with salt, because I've never been through bmq or in the caf etc. Us chaps who have been on the other side of the "Fit-O-Meter" will have something that the chaps who have always been fit MAY not have.

We know what it is like to be fat lazy slobs and we developed the determination to beat and change ourselves. So yeah you are out of shape now, but drag yourself in to the gym and just do something, anything to start and do it mildly.. then keep going.

Now having said that, Ive lost 20lbs and the poster I am quoting is right at least in my humble opinion.... I used to be 250lbs and now 230lbs (6ft 4in) and dropping... the muscles i needed to move 250lbs are still there ive just added to them. Once you start doing some exercise it will be a compunding effect, less weight and more muscle equals you feeling beefier sooner.

All in all this is meant as a rah rah post for you. Develop a game plan and go. Good luck in your journey and ah, dont flame me guys.

Abdullah.


----------



## mariomike

Loachman said:
			
		

> I am not sure why we have two lengthy threads regarding various aspects of fitness here. One might presume that there is sufficient difference between the two to warrant independent continuation of both, but there is more likely more commonality than difference.
> 
> Your mission, as this is a topic of immediate concern to you:
> 
> Read both, completely, and let me know if they should remain independent or be merged, and, briefly, why you recommended whatever course of action you did.





			
				Tengu said:
			
		

> As for the threads, it seems to me that while one's topic is Physical Fitness in general and the other specifically Running, they tend to talk about the same subject and turn around the same discussion points (fitness reqs, workouts, workout/running tips and advice). In my opinion there would be no problem if they were merged as running is such an integral part of fitness that you can't talk about one whitout talking about the other.



Physical Fitness ( Jogging, Diet, Cardiovascular, and Strength ) 

Running: Training, Problems, Techniques, Questions, etc 

See also,

Run, running, jog, jogging discussions.


----------



## marinemech

Looking for some pointers from Active or Retired Members on what i should be doing for a Weight Regime, likely be 2-3 times a week for the next 7 weeks till i head off top BMQ


----------



## Stumpy Goat

I do many different things when it comes to fitness, and preparing for my future career (hopefully) in the CAF.  

I do cardio and resistance training and i know i can just go on google and find new things to do in my routines, but i am more interested in what YOU guys and gals did/do for your workouts.

If its Crossfit, bodybuilding, running it doesn't matter! I want to know how you all stay/get in shape


----------



## Gp95

Usually just cardio with a mix of arms and chest in between when I get bored of cardio; sometimes I mix it up with some swimming after.


----------



## cld617

Aerobic training first and foremost, it should be everyone's base. Second comes muscular strength, followed by mobility and stability work to avoid injury.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Remember no crossfit workout is complete until you post about it on facebook.


----------



## war2001v

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Remember no crossfit workout is complete until you post about it on facebook.


You forgot the part where you change your name to Chad and wear 4 different layers of pants/undergarments.


----------



## Jarnhamar

No it's not enough.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Jane82 said:
			
		

> I am a woman, but I also want to join the army. I do not practice in the gym, but I do fast 10-minute muscle shock workout with a dumbbells and then I add 15 minutes of training with such a thing https://www.bestadvisor.com/slide-boards to correct the inner part of the thighs. I try to focus on problem areas to save time. I also do yoga at home using video tutorials. Do you think this physical preparation is enough? :



http://www.startingstrength.com

Combine this with Prowler/Sled Training and some accessory and mobility work and you will have all the preparation you will ever need.

The reason strength training isn't more popular is because it is very hard and it doesn't appeal to peoples fitness goals which usually revolve around vanity and trying to conform to societal values.  i.e. looking like someone in hollywood or a magazine.

Lift weights properly with good technique and form and you will become more flexible, gain strength and those aches and pains you have will all go away.

You'll thank me when you are carrying a rucksack for long distances.  



			
				cld617 said:
			
		

> Aerobic training first and foremost, it should be everyone's base. Second comes muscular strength, followed by mobility and stability work to avoid injury.



Professional sports and actual strength and conditioning experts would disagree.  Aerobic conditioning is phenomenally easy to achieve and training see's rapid progression.  Actual strength is phenomenally hard to achieve and takes many months to years of training to build to.  

I have played Rugby at the Varsity Collegiate Level and played Ice Hockey competitively.  All off season training programs revolve heavily around strength training with some speed and agility thrown in.  The reason for this is simple, during the season, your actual strength and speed will atrophy as the season progresses due to the aerobic demands of the sport and lack of recovery time.  It's the same in the military, go on an exercise for a month or two and your physical strength will atrophy due to the demands of the training.  I've lost 20lbs on an exercise just from walking around carrying a big bag for a month while eating hard rats the entire time.  

When working up to and exercise, maximum focus should be placed on strength with a short period just before that brings conditioning up.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Stronglifts5x5 App.

Everything you need in one place.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Stronglifts5x5 App.
> 
> Everything you need in one place.



I've done both Stronglifts and Starting Strength, I find Starting Strength to be the superior program.  Rip's books are also awesome and his site is an excellent resource.  They've also go an App now which is every bit as good as the Stronglifts App.

Don't get me wrong, Mehdi did a good job, but Rip is way more knowledgeable and is a freaking machine still.  How many 60 year olds do you know that can deadlift 500lbs:

Rippetoe 500lbs deadlift at 58 years of age, 5 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkCBWgwml7I


----------



## mariomike

Jane82 said:
			
		

> Do you think this physical preparation is enough?



Is my prep for BMQ enough?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/93302.0

Physical Fitness (Jogging, Diet, Cardiovascular, and Strength ) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/23364.0
21 pages.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> http://www.startingstrength.com
> 
> Combine this with Prowler/Sled Training and some accessory and mobility work and you will have all the preparation you will ever need.



I don't know my friend, I'm not that familiar with sled training but I feel like if someone isn't coming in to the CAF with a solid fitness-lifestyle then 15&20 minute workouts won't really prepare them for the longer bouts of physical exertion they'll face in training. Which we know can be mental as much as it's physical.

Students I've had were surprised (and upset, some complaining abut hazing and harassment) because they went for runs or ruck marches during the day after their morning PT.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I don't know my friend, I'm not that familiar with sled training but I feel like if someone isn't coming in to the CAF with a solid fitness-lifestyle then 15&20 minute workouts won't really prepare them for the longer bouts of physical exertion they'll face in training. Which we know can be mental as much as it's physical.
> 
> Students I've had were surprised (and upset, some complaining abut hazing and harassment) because they went for runs or ruck marches during the day after their morning PT.



The key to Prowler training is maintaining your heart rate at a certain level for a certain amount of time.  It's essentially a form of high intensity interval training and can be used as such.  It also isn't eccentric training so you don't burn yourself out doing it.  It's a way of maximizing your training gains while saving time for other things.  I use the Prowler and the Sled for almost all my conditioning now and instead of running for an hour I spend 20-30 minutes on a Prowler or Sled Workout and another 45-60 minutes doing Mobility.  By using the Prowler on off days, I can still lift the next day with very little muscle soreness due to no lactic Acid from eccentric training.  Guess what makes you better at some of the tasks on the Force Test as well, you know the simulated casualty drag:






He is dragging a Prowler

The thing is, and you've seen it like I have, many people who join the military are actually in piss poor shape.  They associate fitness with vanity workouts and crap they see in Magazines, you know, like six packs and huge biceps.  

Here is an example of a guy who looks like he isn't in shape by Muscle Magazine standards but is in fact a world class athlete:






From what I've seen of your aforementioned whiners, most are simply physically weak.  If they could actually squat even just their own bodyweight, they would have no trouble completing a ruck march.


----------



## war2001v

Jane82 said:
			
		

> I am a woman, but I also want to join the army. I do not practice in the gym, but I do fast 10-minute muscle shock workout with a dumbbells and then I add 15 minutes of training with such a thing https://www.bestadvisor.com/slide-boards to correct the inner part of the thighs. I try to focus on problem areas to save time. I also do yoga at home using video tutorials. Do you think this physical preparation is enough? :


I know it sounds odd, but you could try simulating your own FORCE test using things around your house, to see what level you're at and if you're not at that level it might make a decent workout. You just have to be creative.


----------



## daftandbarmy

war2001v said:
			
		

> I know it sounds odd, but you could try simulating your own FORCE test using things around your house, to see what level you're at and if you're not at that level it might make a decent workout. You just have to be creative.



Or just visit the Land of Nod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3SAWdbSXU


----------



## war2001v

Or that... That works too... :rofl:


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> I've done both Stronglifts and Starting Strength, I find Starting Strength to be the superior program.  Rip's books are also awesome and his site is an excellent resource.  They've also go an App now which is every bit as good as the Stronglifts App.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Mehdi did a good job, but Rip is way more knowledgeable and is a freaking machine still.  How many 60 year olds do you know that can deadlift 500lbs:
> 
> Rippetoe 500lbs deadlift at 58 years of age, 5 years ago.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkCBWgwml7I



It was simply for the integration and tracking of workouts, shows progression, also has videos of each work out built into the app.

It's a quality of life thing really.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Jane82 said:
			
		

> I am a woman, but I also want to join the army. I do not practice in the gym, but I do fast 10-minute muscle shock workout with a dumbbells and then I add 15 minutes of training with such a thing https://www.bestadvisor.com/slide-boards to correct the inner part of the thighs. I try to focus on problem areas to save time. I also do yoga at home using video tutorials. Do you think this physical preparation is enough? :



Chances are if you’re not sure about whether or not you’re ready for the physical demands of training, there’s a good chance you’re not. 

People who are in fantastic shape end up becoming injured sometimes, so those who are not in peak condition run as much risk, if not more. 

The frequency, duration and intensity of physical exercise during BMQ can be extremely strenuous, and becomes more so as the course progresses at certain times. The course is very cardio-intensive and requires a lot of stamina. There are weight-room PT classes and lots of pushups. There are lots of circuits with varying intensity. There’s a ton of stair-climbing, there’s heavy lifting and pushing. As well, in a lot of instances it’s not so much the difficulty of the task being done, it’s simply the repetitive movement over and over again that can start to take its toll. Besides other aspects that I haven’t mentioned, throw in that you’re tired and hungry. This stresses the body making the possibility of injury greater.

I was in decent shape when I went. (Could I have been in better shape? Yes.) I’m female. I thought I would be okay. I wasn’t. I got hurt and while it didn’t end my career (although it ALMOST did), it sure as hell complicated the F out of everything.

Don’t settle for being in ‘ok’ shape. Be in the best shape you can be. Yes, there are people who go to basic who are in awful shape, but if they don’t get hurt (by sheer luck) or manage to find people to carry them through course, they instead risk losing a lot of respect from their platoon mates. They payoff isn’t worth it.

Do the prep work needed. Personally, at the *extreme* least, be able to run 10k, have strong cardio, be able to do at least 25 push-ups. And do lots of conditioning/weights.


----------



## Bbmoveup

Simple? 

Bench press your own weight, squat your own weight, at a minimum dead lift your own weight and what, run a minimum 6km at a pace of at least 5:30min/km? Oh and of course stretching/flexibility.

Is the 2.4km still a bench mark?


----------



## war2001v

Wouldn't bench pressing your own bodyweight come way after squatting your own bodyweight? If you can bench just as much as you squat and or/deadlift that is a serious imbalance and you should probably get it checked out.


----------



## Cloud Cover

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Or just visit the Land of Nod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3SAWdbSXU


The Trenasium looked interesting, potentially a pain in the face


----------



## cld617

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> Professional sports and actual strength and conditioning experts would disagree.  Aerobic conditioning is phenomenally easy to achieve and training see's rapid progression.  Actual strength is phenomenally hard to achieve and takes many months to years of training to build to.
> 
> I have played Rugby at the Varsity Collegiate Level and played Ice Hockey competitively.  All off season training programs revolve heavily around strength training with some speed and agility thrown in.  The reason for this is simple, during the season, your actual strength and speed will atrophy as the season progresses due to the aerobic demands of the sport and lack of recovery time.  It's the same in the military, go on an exercise for a month or two and your physical strength will atrophy due to the demands of the training.  I've lost 20lbs on an exercise just from walking around carrying a big bag for a month while eating hard rats the entire time.
> 
> When working up to and exercise, maximum focus should be placed on strength with a short period just before that brings conditioning up.



You're free to disagree, but you've failed to convince me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting strength training takes a back seat to aerobic training, the two need to be train simultaneously to see maximum results. Anyone looking to join the military should stay away from isolation training, and focus on heavy compound lifting once they've achieved structural balance and learned how to move correctly. However, I am reiterating what is already told by those who specialize in training military athletes, CANSOFCOM training programs, studies done following SAR courses to develop a new PT standard, as well as the army fitness manual; that aerobic fitness is the predominant requirement of a successful military athlete. 



			
				war2001v said:
			
		

> Wouldn't bench pressing your own bodyweight come way after squatting your own bodyweight? If you can bench just as much as you squat and or/deadlift that is a serious imbalance and you should probably get it checked out.



Agreed, a balanced athlete should have a squat which is significantly stronger than their bench. This is usually a result of poor training that focuses on the look at me muscles rather than putting performance first.


----------



## ballz

war2001v said:
			
		

> Wouldn't bench pressing your own bodyweight come way after squatting your own bodyweight? If you can bench just as much as you squat and or/deadlift that is a serious imbalance and you should probably get it checked out.



Haha you got that right... if you can't deadlift your own body weight you probably have a hard time doing anything.

I created a Platoon fitness incentive that the CO supported with 2x short days for anyone who could achieve it.

Bench press, squat, and deadlift.... 5x 85% of bodyweight
7 chin-ups
23m 5km run

For a 215 lb guy, that works out to...
Bench 5x 185lbs
Squat 5x 275lbs
Deadlift 5x 370
+ chin-ups and the run.

If I had a platoon of guys that could meet that standard I'd have the fittest platoon in the Battalion no doubt. I regret not putting something like that in place earlier but generally once you figure out what you're doing, they move you into a new position.



			
				cld617 said:
			
		

> However, I am reiterating what is already told by those who specialize in training military athletes, CANSOFCOM training programs, studies done following SAR courses to develop a new PT standard, as well as the army fitness manual; that aerobic fitness is the predominant requirement of a successful military athlete.



Who? PSP? Not exactly who I would use for an argument from authority, but where have they explicitly stated your assertion?


----------



## Cloud Cover

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Remember no crossfit workout is complete until you post about it on facebook.



I don't do that, but I do take 24 hr Aleve twice a day.


----------



## cld617

ballz said:
			
		

> Who? PSP? Not exactly who I would use for an argument from authority, but where have they explicitly stated your assertion?



No, the people with all sorts of letters before and after their names who create the standards we follow, PSP is responsible for administering the tests and putting you through random circuits they saw online. 



> Based on the physiological review of occupational tasks similar to the SAR-Tech trade, it is
> evident SAR-Techs likely require a relatively high level of aerobic fitness (VO2max~45 ml·kg-1 min-1) as
> well as a sufficient amount of muscular strength and endurance to perform lifting and carrying activities.





> Predicted one-repetition maximum for the members of Course 41 on the bench
> press exercise with free weights was 86 (± 11.9) kg in August and 89 (± 18.2) kg in June
> suggesting that strength did not change during the course. The anecdotal evidence from
> the SAR trade that fitness level worsens during the QL5A course is not supported by the
> data acquired by systematically tracking the members of Course 41.



So a relatively unimpressive 1rm bench hovering around 190lbs yet a rather impressive vo2 max is what a successful QL5 sar-tech has. 

https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Documents/Publications%20and%20Reports/Search%20and%20Rescue%20Technicians%20Physical%20Fitness%20Selection%20Standard.pdf



> The physical fitness components necessary for the successful
> completion of Phase III selection in order of importance are:
> • Aerobic Power (VO2peak): This is the maximum rate that your body
> uses oxygen to fuel the work that you are doing. It is also a critical
> component of your body`s ability to recover during and following
> intense intermittent work, to endure repeated days of intense
> work, and to resist heat stress.
> • Aerobic Capacity: This is your ability to work at a reasonably high
> rate for a prolonged period of time. It reflects your endurance over
> hours and days and is an important component of Phase III.


https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/Correspondence/Documents/JTF2/SOA_Manual_Eng_2016_web.pdf

Again, I'm not suggesting you slack on any facet of fitness. People just seem to get up in arms when they're told that maybe getting out there for those long run/rucks is actually necessary after all. Usually by gym rats who talk about how much better HIIT training is than steady-state cardio....who skip the HIIT in the end. 

I like your fitness incentives, wish more people would adopt something like that.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

cld617 said:
			
		

> No, the people with all sorts of letters before and after their names who create the standards we follow, PSP is responsible for administering the tests and putting you through random circuits they saw online.
> 
> So a relatively unimpressive 1rm bench hovering around 190lbs yet a rather impressive vo2 max is what a successful QL5 sar-tech has.
> 
> https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Documents/Publications%20and%20Reports/Search%20and%20Rescue%20Technicians%20Physical%20Fitness%20Selection%20Standard.pdf
> https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/Correspondence/Documents/JTF2/SOA_Manual_Eng_2016_web.pdf
> 
> Again, I'm not suggesting you slack on any facet of fitness. People just seem to get up in arms when they're told that maybe getting out there for those long run/rucks is actually necessary after all. Usually by gym rats who talk about how much better HIIT training is than steady-state cardio....who skip the HIIT in the end.
> 
> I like your fitness incentives, wish more people would adopt something like that.



Nowhere did I say that aerobic training wasn't necessary.  It is, just not to the extent the military preaches.  Aerobic training and strength training work different systems.  

Also HIIT develops anerobic capacity which is different from aerobic capacity.   As I said, aerobic fitness can be developed very quickly.  Look at boxers or professional fighters who are some of the most physically fit people on the planet.  The purpose of a fight camp which are usually 6-8 weeka in length is primarily to work on conditioning; however, pre and post fight camp training should be primarily focused on strength and power.


----------



## Bbmoveup

war2001v said:
			
		

> Wouldn't bench pressing your own bodyweight come way after squatting your own bodyweight? If you can bench just as much as you squat and or/deadlift that is a serious imbalance and you should probably get it checked out.



I was just using that as a bench mark for an individual. A lot of different factors for every one. Lean body type? Example I am 6'1 173lbs. Stupid high metabolism its hard to put weight on im also lean. I can bench 185, squat 200, deadlifft 260 at 5 reps. But I also run so that kills my squat. Run 1.5k under 10:00min, 10k under 50 min. Also, people may have trained different to create different types of muscles for years, I trained explosive strength for years for vertical and speed and quick reaction for action sports so changing that is hard. So I was just using that as a bench mark for some people to get an idea but again factors are so drastically different for everyone like in the posts above. You may not look like an athlete by the magazine fitness programs etc. 

But I do agree your body has to be balanced but there is a lot more to it then hey what do you bench.


----------



## war2001v

Hehe, a BENCH mark.... Ok I'll go now.
But yeah I do get what you mean now.


----------



## cld617

Running is not killing your squat potential at those weights/run times. With proper training, you should be able to work up to a double bodyweight squat and still pull off a 20 min 5k before you have to sacrifice one for another.


----------



## mariomike

cld617 said:
			
		

> Running is not killing your squat potential at those weights/run times. With proper training, you should be able to work up to a double bodyweight squat and still pull off a 20 min 5k before you have to sacrifice one for another.



See also,

Running: Training, Problems, Techniques, Questions, etc  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/22788.450
19 pages.


----------



## Bbmoveup

cld617 said:
			
		

> Running is not killing your squat potential at those weights/run times. With proper training, you should be able to work up to a double bodyweight squat and still pull off a 20 min 5k before you have to sacrifice one for another.



Now I don't disagree with you for a 5k but after those distances pure strength trained muscle fibers wont perform the same for longer distance running at a fast pace as well as in a solid hobby of mine (Motocross) so im not to worried about what you think "I should" be able to squat, more the daily and weekly activity they endure and are trained for. Again, like mentioned before its all on what they are trained for.


----------



## cld617

The whole point is to not have muscle's which have only been trained for strength/hypertrophy, hence the concurrent strength and aerobic/anaerobic training programming everyone should be on who wishes to build strength. A 180lb lifter who trains a 360lb squat does not require leg and torso size of a powerlifter competing to lift 600lbs, so his structure does not inhibit him from attaining those strength levels as well as respectable run times, including runs of 10k+. I'm not saying he should be breaking records, but he is fully capable of being at the front of the pack on a 10k run among your average 6' 180lb infantry soldiers. It's all about proper training, diet and training more than one facet of fitness exclusively to create tissue that adapts to the demands.


----------



## Bbmoveup

cld617 said:
			
		

> The whole point is to not have muscle's which have only been trained for strength/hypertrophy, hence the concurrent strength and aerobic/anaerobic training programming everyone should be on who wishes to build strength. A 180lb lifter who trains a 360lb squat does not require leg and torso size of a powerlifter competing to lift 600lbs, so his structure does not inhibit him from attaining those strength levels as well as respectable run times, including runs of 10k+. I'm not saying he should be breaking records, but he is fully capable of being at the front of the pack on a 10k run among your average 6' 180lb infantry soldiers. It's all about proper training, diet and training more than one facet of fitness exclusively to create tissue that adapts to the demands.



You’ve drifted so off what my original post was, your now trying to prove your opinion is right. So much more into it then just if you train for one exercise to squat what I think you should squat you can perform just as good. My opinion and experience mostly wrong.

My original post was some easy enough weights to get to, to have a relatively decent strength. Of course I mean weighted squat for full reps 8 not taking these strength training reps of 4. Again all depending on one individuals past weight lifting experience etc. Also, in my opinion, I think someone with little weight lifting or gym time would have the harder time gaining squat strength 1 because many people don’t like leg days 2 because it’s easy to do push ups at home etc not weighted squats. 

Also, I would bet many professional Olympic athletes can’t squat 2X their body weight, so they must be imbalanced? No. Again, all about what you train and how you train. 

A guy in the gym who is “balanced” I in better shape? Ones own opinion I believe. Vs someone with a vo2 max of 55 is imbalanced because he can’t squat 2X his body weight but can bench his own weight. Sorry I just can’t fatham that.


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## cld617

No, you posted poor information and I chose to correct it so new people trying to gain knowledge didn't think it was true. There's no gospel when it comes to fitness, but there is misinformation that makes its rounds. 

You would be betting very, very wrong. Many olympic lifters can snatch twice their weight, squatting twice your weight is something any reasonably trained person should be doing a few years into lifting. Not trying to start a pecker measuring contest here, I just despise this attitude that you need to give up one for the other. Is that level of fitness required for the military? Of course not, but excuses that set limitations should be kept to yourself.


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## Bbmoveup

cld617 said:
			
		

> No, you posted poor information and I chose to correct it so new people trying to gain knowledge didn't think it was true. There's no gospel when it comes to fitness, but there is misinformation that makes its rounds.
> 
> You would be betting very, very wrong. Many olympic lifters can snatch twice their weight, squatting twice your weight is something any reasonably trained person should be doing a few years into lifting. Not trying to start a pecker measuring contest here, I just despise this attitude that you need to give up one for the other. Is that level of fitness required for the military? Of course not, but excuses that set limitations should be kept to yourself.



First off, misinformation? No that wasn’t I was simply suggesting something to aim for before basic as many people can’t do any of the three weights I suggested.

Also, yes it would hinder. Your to short sighted. If one does many many other things they simply don’t have the time to be doing straight heavy squats because they don’t need it for what they are currently doing. Let’s say a marathon runner trains and trains for marathons.... you would say he should still squat 2X their weight. Ok  :

Once again all on what is trained for.
And there was no misinformation being spread with my original post. 
Your opinion. My opinion. That’s why we live where we do so we can all share it.


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## cld617

Bbmoveup said:
			
		

> Let’s say a marathon runner trains and trains for marathons.... you would say he should still squat 2X their weight. Ok  :



Look up Alex Viada. No there is nothing physically holding someone back from being able to both run a marathon, and squat double bodyweight, Alex squats well over that and does ultramarathons, triathlons and long distance cycles. Is he or someone else who trains both disciplines going to be a record setter? Nope, but that does not prevent him from being capable in both. Just as squatting 2x+ bodyweight does not prevent people in the military from running fast times as compared with their peers. I accept that focusing on one hinders you in another area, I do not accept the claims that getting above a novice level 200lb squat is going to hurt you from progressing in your running if you're not an extremely fast runner. You're not going to be knocking out 16 minute 5k's, but you're certainly capable of breaking into 18's.


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## Quirky

cld617 said:
			
		

> Look up Alex Viada. No there is nothing physically holding someone back from being able to both run a marathon, and squat double bodyweight, Alex squats well over that and does ultramarathons, triathlons and long distance cycles. Is he or someone else who trains both disciplines going to be a record setter? Nope, but that does not prevent him from being capable in both. Just as squatting 2x+ bodyweight does not prevent people in the military from running fast times as compared with their peers. I accept that focusing on one hinders you in another area, I do not accept the claims that getting above a novice level 200lb squat is going to hurt you from progressing in your running if you're not an extremely fast runner. You're not going to be knocking out 16 minute 5k's, but you're certainly capable of breaking into 18's.



In the end of the day who cares what your running times, or your squat weight is. Seriously. You have to question your own self esteem if you are doing all this just to boast about your times or weights. Fun fact: Most people don't care how much you lift or how fast you can run. There isn't a trade in the CF that requires you to become a long distance runner or professional power lifter. 9 times out of 10 you will injure yourself running continuously or lifting heavy weights. 

What's the number one reason why people workout? To stay healthy and look good naked.


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## BeyondTheNow

On that note folks, let’s bring focus back to information specifically needed for the purpose of this thread.


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## a_majoor

Interesting concept for a new exercise tool. The idea of getting a full range of motion is key to this device, and I'm sure using it or something similar will help with physio and people recovering from injuries, as well as helping people avoid injuries in the future. I'm a bit more dubious about the "packing on muscle mass" claim:

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/04/probar-helps-you-train-for-mobility-with-loaded-and-resisted-exercise.html#so-post-comments-144327

Several embedded videos on how the device works on the link.


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## cld617

Another fitness gizmo that while may serve a purpose, can easily be replaced with something cheaper. A broom handle and some $10 resistance bands can do everything that can do...


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## daftandbarmy

I can't believe I'm advocating the use of a treadmill for fitness purposes, outside is the best gym, here's a pretty good test:

The 10/10 Test

http://www.stack.com/a/7-treadmill-workouts-that-dont-suck


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## a_majoor

TheUS Army is instituting a new fitness test. Interestingly, in the article it states the old fitness test (pushups, sit-ups, 2 mile run) is a "40% predictor" of success in performing field tasks:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jul/10/armys-new-fitness-test-ready-by-2020-officials-wan/?utm_source=Boomtrain&utm_medium=manual&utm_campaign=20171227&utm_term=newsletter&utm_content=morning



> *Army to scrap traditional pushups, situps as part of fitness test*
> By Douglas Ernst - The Washington Times - Tuesday, July 10, 2018
> 
> Military officials say the U.S. Army will roll out its new and improved fitness test by October 2020.
> The Army Physical Fitness Test that soldiers have known since the 1980s — 2 minutes of pushups; 2 minutes of situps; the 2-mile run — will be retired before the end of the decade. While the 2-mile run will still conclude the assessment, five other events seen as a better predictor of successfully completing combat tasks have been added.
> 
> “The Army Combat Fitness Test [ACFT] will ignite a generational, cultural change in Army fitness and become a cornerstone of individual Soldier combat readiness,” Maj. Gen. Malcolm Frost, commander of the Army’s Center of Initial Military Training, said Monday. “It will reduce attrition and it will reduce musculoskeletal injuries and actually save, in the long run, the Army a heck of a lot of money.”
> 
> ACFT’s events include:
> 
> Strength deadlift: “With a proposed weight range of 120 to 420 pounds … ACFT will require Soldiers to perform a three-repetition maximum deadlift … and the weights will be increased.”
> 
> Standing power throw: “Soldiers toss a 10-pound ball backward as far as possible to test muscular explosive power that may be needed to lift themselves or a fellow Soldier up over an obstacle or to move rapidly across uneven terrain.”
> 
> Hand-release pushups: “Soldiers start in the prone position and do a traditional pushup, but when at the down position they release their hands and arms from contact with the ground and then reset to do another pushup.”
> 
> Sprint/drag/carry: “Soldiers will perform sprints, drag a sled weighing 90 pounds, and then hand-carry two 40-pound kettlebell weights.”
> 
> Leg tuck: “Soldiers lift their legs up and down to touch their knees/thighs to their elbows as many times as they can.”
> 
> 2-mile run.
> 
> “The current PT test is only a 40 percent predictor of success for performing in combat and executing warrior tasks and battle drills,” Maj. Gen. Frost said, Army News Service reported. “This test is approximately an 80 percent predictor of performing based on our ability to test the physical components of combat fitness.”
> 
> Michael McGurk, director of research and analysis at Center for Initial Military Training, told ANS that scoring would differ depending on each soldier’s military occupational specialty.
> 
> “The more physically challenging your MOS, the more you’ll be required to do at the minimum levels,” Mr. McGurk said. “In 1980, running shoes were relatively a new invention. The Army was still running in boots for the PT test back then. Change is difficult, but we’re an Army that adapts well to change.”
> 
> Over 2,000 soldiers have already taken the test and provided feedback to Army Training and Doctrine Command and Forces Command, ANS reported.


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## Humphrey Bogart

Thucydides said:
			
		

> TheUS Army is instituting a new fitness test. Interestingly, in the article it states the old fitness test (pushups, sit-ups, 2 mile run) is a "40% predictor" of success in performing field tasks:
> 
> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jul/10/armys-new-fitness-test-ready-by-2020-officials-wan/?utm_source=Boomtrain&utm_medium=manual&utm_campaign=20171227&utm_term=newsletter&utm_content=morning



Test looks fun.  I find our FORCE Test is fun as well and the incentive levels give me a target to aim for.


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## wnhan

Hi daftandbarmy,

Thanks for the 10/10 treadmill workout. Very interesting! I will give it a try tomorrow!


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## Xylric

It's kind of interesting just how physically intensive caring for my 8 1/2 month old niece has been, considering the amount of heavy lifting involved - carting around a bag of baby supplies that at this point weighs more than the actual baby (got to love the paranoid instincts of a new father - with unnatural Tetris skills), lifting her over my head to get a giggle because I'm taller than her father, dodging the occasional unexpected projectile, holding her until my arm goes numb, keeping pace with her and her mother when going out on errands, and many other things.

Obviously, I'm partially joking. Most of the "workout" I get from helping out with her is nothing more than constant repetition of day-to-day tasks, but I can't deny the fact that having the little one around is a huge psychological boon when it comes to myself and my family considering our physical well-being. We've all made some changes to our diet as a result, in addition to being more conscious to other easily overlooked means to improving overall health.

So far, the most beneficial improvement she's given my work out is that I can mirror her growth with it by adjusting the weights I lift. As I'm already doing my routine four times a day (When I get up, after each meal, and just before bed), by the time she hits a weight milestone, I'll be comfortably curling that amount. I'm already doing 50 reps of 5kg (her current weight) each time, in addition to the rest of my routine. The shifts to my diet and sleep patterns are just a bonus.


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## daftandbarmy

Volidyr said:
			
		

> Hi daftandbarmy,
> 
> Thanks for the 10/10 treadmill workout. Very interesting! I will give it a try tomorrow!



How did it go?

Now that my life absorbs all of my formerly considerable 'outside exercise time', I'm using the treadmill (and stair climber) more often. Based on my last 3 weeks, covering a climbing binge totaling about 9,000 vertical metres and over 40kms - mostly in the Rockies and Vancouver Island ranges - I'm pretty happy with the results. 

Which means I didn't collapse in a snotty heap followed by shoveling down the Advil....


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## Wertyguy

Hi, I plan to join the military 1 year from now I want to be in the airforce and at the moment Im just working out, improving my physical fitness. The only thing that concerns me joining is the 2.4km run test. I am physically strong, I can lift weights I can jog 5k for 29 minutes, I can push ups 50, I can squat 160 pounds for 8 reps 3 sets as an example. My height/weight is 5'8/140lbs.  I saw that the requirement is 10 mins or so for 2.4k run. Right now, I can do somewhere around 14 to 15 mins. My question is Lets say I passed all the test except only managed getting 14 mins or so for 2.4k, what are the chances of me getting in basic military training? Would I automatically fail if I didnt pass the 2.4k requirement? Thanks


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## dangerboy

You have a year, so instead of worrying about failing the timings concentrate on improving your running. If you need help look for a running club or a gym to get help. It is an achievable goal to do within a year.


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## cld617

Wertyguy said:
			
		

> Hi, I plan to join the military 1 year from now I want to be in the airforce and at the moment Im just working out, improving my physical fitness. The only thing that concerns me joining is the 2.4km run test. I am physically strong, I can lift weights I can jog 5k for 29 minutes, I can push ups 50, I can squat 160 pounds for 8 reps 3 sets as an example. My height/weight is 5'8/140lbs.  I saw that the requirement is 10 mins or so for 2.4k run. Right now, I can do somewhere around 14 to 15 mins. My question is Lets say I passed all the test except only managed getting 14 mins or so for 2.4k, what are the chances of me getting in basic military training? Would I automatically fail if I didnt pass the 2.4k requirement? Thanks



Where are you seeing a 2.4k requirement to join the Forces? The only place I'm aware of that distance being a standard is in selection courses which don't apply to you. 

Work that 5k time, you sound like you're already ahead of the curve a year out.


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