# PRes SigOp training



## Skruffy (18 Nov 2008)

I'm considering putting in my application for the primary reserve in the next couple of days and am considering either Combat Engineer or SigOp  as my trade here in Winnipeg.  I'm wondering if someone could tell me how long the trade course (QL3, right?) is for SigOps, and where it is done?  I did a search but couldn't find this mentioned anywhere.  It would be nice to know roughly how much time I can expect to be away so I can make my employer aware.

Part nervous, part excited, and overall sh*t scared!  

Jeremy


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## Bintheredunthat (18 Nov 2008)

Kingston is the place.  Can't say for certain the length of your course.....8 - 10 weeks??  I'm sure someone else will chime in.

For the record though, Kingston is a great place to party.  Highly recommended.   :

Bin


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## 211RadOp (21 Nov 2008)

Mod 1 is 43 days and Mod 2 is 40 days. These are training days, not calendar days.



Edit for clairification


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## Sig_Des (21 Nov 2008)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> Mod 1 is 43 days and Mod 2 is 40 days. These are training days, not calendar days.



And, while I don't see any dates on the CFSCE Calender for the R/00329 courses, from what I remember of F Sqn, start dates of the courses can be anywhere between end May to End July.

*And to add, The likelyhood isn't there that you will do your QL3 the first summer in the Res. You will most likely do your BMQ/SQ. Your best bet is to talk to the Comm Unit's recruiter.


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## dapaterson (21 Nov 2008)

1.  BMQs will not be offered summer '09; to maximize the use of instructors, BMQs will be programmed to produce grads ready for trades training in the summer.

2.  There are currently some Mod 1 / Mod 2 combined courses scheduled starting in May; there are also stand-alone Mod 1 and Mod 2 courses starting in June.  Depending on when you have SQ complete you may be able to get the full QL3 in a single summer, or, more likely, you will get Mod 1 the first summer, and Mod 2 the second.


The draft 09/10 calendar for all Army schools is available on the DWAN at: http://armyonline.kingston.mil.ca/LFDTS/143000440010602/0910_DRAFT_NATL_CAL_.XLS


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## PuckChaser (21 Nov 2008)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> 1.  BMQs will not be offered summer '09; to maximize the use of instructors, BMQs will be programmed to produce grads ready for trades training in the summer.



How the heck are they going to get properly trained High school students on trade training if they enroll in January or February??? Seems like the only way to maximize instructors would be to run BMQs directly after the PLQ courses that normally run end Apr to mid June.


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## Nfld Sapper (22 Nov 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> How the heck are they going to get properly trained High school students on trade training if they enroll in January or February??? Seems like the only way to maximize instructors would be to run BMQs directly after the PLQ courses that normally run end Apr to mid June.



Those guys usually go off to the Area Rank and Trades Courses to teach on SQ's and QL3/QL5 Courses


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## dapaterson (22 Nov 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> How the heck are they going to get properly trained High school students on trade training if they enroll in January or February??? Seems like the only way to maximize instructors would be to run BMQs directly after the PLQ courses that normally run end Apr to mid June.



BMQ part time Jan-mid May; full-time SQ, followed by a Mod 1.


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## Sig_Des (22 Nov 2008)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> BMQ part time Jan-mid May; full-time SQ, followed by a Mod 1.



Just out of curiosity, have they decided yet to shut down the Comm Res School in Shilo?


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## PuckChaser (22 Nov 2008)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, have they decided yet to shut down the Comm Res School in Shilo?



It's gone, last training summer was this year I believe.


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## Sig_Des (22 Nov 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> It's gone, last training summer was this year I believe.



So basically, weekend basics, and then trades course. They going to send Comm res unit recruits to local Bde schools at all?


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## Thanato (22 Nov 2008)

QL3 for Reserve SigOp is 4 months in length, it is offered as a full for month (may - august) or broken into Mods, Mod 1 and Mod 2 both 2 months in length. It is done at CFSCE in Kingston.

~Thanato


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## PuckChaser (22 Nov 2008)

Beadwindow 7 said:
			
		

> So basically, weekend basics, and then trades course. They going to send Comm res unit recruits to local Bde schools at all?



The plan is in the works to do away with summer BMQ, and have it run at the units on the weekends. This is gonna require a lot of cooperation between units. CommRes recruits now have opportunities to go on weekend BMQs run at local armouries, but those armouries train their own troops first. Its becoming increasingly difficult to get pers trained to go on QL3 courses.


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## Sig_Des (22 Nov 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Its becoming increasingly difficult to get pers trained to go on QL3 courses.



I can imagine. When I went through, we did summer BMQ/SQ, with a few exceptions, and then had a year of Voice Procedure, Driver, and Winter Indoc Training and a hell of a lot of OJT before we hit F Sqn.

Be interesting to see how this works out.


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## meni0n (23 Nov 2008)

I guess that will help attrition and not having people waiting a year to qualify and not just be able to do much on an ex. Pumping out qualified sigs faster will help with one problem but will they be better sigs ?


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## ettibebs (23 Nov 2008)

My only worry about the training at CFSCE is if they have updated the course.  The IT Training suck as much for me when I did my 3 and 5 as for the Reg force guys I was in Afghanistan with.  With the reserve starting to get digital and the ops in Afghanistan using digital network we need to have people capable of handling computer not just radio and crypto.  

Also I think it's better if people do a bit of OJT before getting their 3 as some will realize that's not what they want and will go elsewhere before we have to spend thousand training them.

Just my 2 cents


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## meni0n (23 Nov 2008)

With the new amalgamation coming, I wonder how the reserve sigops will be affected by all of it and if they will get a new QL3 QL5 packages.


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## JAWS228 (23 Nov 2008)

ettibebs....unfortunately the IT training for regforce 3s is still useless...this is a CD...this is a floppy...this is how you use a mouse.....etc. etc.
Most of it is sadly outdated too, and that goes for some other areas besides IT.


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## aesop081 (23 Nov 2008)

JAWS228 said:
			
		

> unfortunately the IT training for regforce 3s is still useless...this is a CD...this is a floppy...this is how you use a mouse.....etc. etc.



This is usualy in the belief that one must teach to the lowest common denominator. Some people still cling to the idea that recruits will still show up with no computer skills whatsoever.


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## PuckChaser (23 Nov 2008)

meni0n said:
			
		

> With the new amalgamation coming, I wonder how the reserve sigops will be affected by all of it and if they will get a new QL3 QL5 packages.



Well the QL3 is currently split into 2 mods, which says a lot for updating the course. This was done before the trade changes, so I would guess that our course material will mirror that of the regular force, albeit with a massively compressed timeframe.

meni0n: You can't pump out SigOps unless you can get them trained BMQ/SQ, which is the challenge now at least with my res unit (that and we're handcuffed to only recruiting a SigOp or 2 a year). The caliber of the operator will depend on the caliber of the recruit.


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## Sig_Des (23 Nov 2008)

JAWS228 said:
			
		

> this is how you use a mouse



I remember that from our IT portion.
'
"This a pointing device, commonly referred to as a 'mouse' "


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## meni0n (23 Nov 2008)

Puck, it looks like the main intent of getting pers qualified faster was the major force behind the idea I guess. The thinking might be going is that the faster someone is qualified, the faster that person can be an asset to the unit and will be more content and not having to wait a whole year to go to Kingston to do QL3s. It was a bit frustrating getting back to the unit and when going on first exercise with the unit couldn't really do much because you were not qualified. But I can agree it might be a challenge for a unit like yours that's in an area with little PRes units to get a weekend BMQ going, but shouldn't be too big of a problem for units that have alot of PRes units around. It's good to see that they doubled the length of the QL3 because that definitely needed to be done as it the old QL3 left alot lacking.


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## PuckChaser (24 Nov 2008)

Yep, I can totally see that. I know I would have loved to have been employable. However, there's a lot of ancillary training that gets done after a BMQ, so that students are prep'd for their summer courses: LSVW Driver wheeled, Winter Warfare, VP Package. I think both ways have a shining light at the end of the tunnel, but relying on other units to train our pers really cuts down our ability to force generate pers when the going gets tough.


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## Brasidas (20 Dec 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Yep, I can totally see that. I know I would have loved to have been employable. However, there's a lot of ancillary training that gets done after a BMQ, so that students are prep'd for their summer courses: LSVW Driver wheeled, Winter Warfare, VP Package. I think both ways have a shining light at the end of the tunnel, but relying on other units to train our pers really cuts down our ability to force generate pers when the going gets tough.



The problem with that unit-based ancillary training is that it's not the same from unit to unit. The four-month QL3 that ran this summer showed up at CFSCE with sub-par VP and less than a quarter with trailer quals. 

404's are waiverable, VP's gone at the unit level with no new pre-3's package at my unit, and winter warfare's a five's pre-req. There's going to be 3's guys showing up this summer with no more advantage over a decent BMQ/SQ grad than an introduction to how to turn a generator on this summer 

There was a VP PO early on that got cancelled after most of the early guys flunked. VP's no longer a pre-req according to a standards warrant I talked to, and my unit at least isn't running a VP class for our new guys.

Most of the QL3's got their 404's from their units, but apparently CFSCE and the units didn't discuss the need for trailer quals. A short course was run for them at the school, so someone other than the det commander could be the driver in most dets.

Ancillary training's all well and good, but it can be more than a little disfunctional. CFSCE needs to talk to the units about what the heck's going on and what's needed from them.


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## chrisf (20 Dec 2008)

Most of the guys failing the VP test failed because they never bothered to show up for the VP training at their units, if they even showed up for ANY training... why units bother to send people who are functionally NES is beyond me... do they expect better attendence from these people after their QL3? Specific example... we had one individual... did BMQ/SQ, didn't show up for training, was eligible for an NES release, the unit begged him to come back, did his QL3, never showed up for training during the year, repeat previous year with the unit begging him to return to training, went on his QL5, then went NES again the following training year, when he was finally released as NES.


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## Warren12 (23 Jan 2009)

I joined Comm Res recently and when I ask about a weekend BMQ people think I'm crazy.   I don't get it.  I'm looking forward to getting going on my training, but if I take 4 weeks off work for my BMQ I won't be able to get on to anything else until next year.


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## PuckChaser (23 Jan 2009)

Warren12 said:
			
		

> I joined Comm Res recently and when I ask about a weekend BMQ people think I'm crazy.   I don't get it.  I'm looking forward to getting going on my training, but if I take 4 weeks off work for my BMQ I won't be able to get on to anything else until next year.



Depends on where you are, my res unit is running a weekend BMQ in town, inconjunction with the other army res unit in town. Should get about 20 pers ready for their part 1 training before the summer.


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## Brasidas (23 Jan 2009)

Warren12 said:
			
		

> I joined Comm Res recently and when I ask about a weekend BMQ people think I'm crazy.   I don't get it.  I'm looking forward to getting going on my training, but if I take 4 weeks off work for my BMQ I won't be able to get on to anything else until next year.



You know that your first two trades courses are 8 continuous weeks each, right?


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## Warren12 (23 Jan 2009)

Brasidas said:
			
		

> You know that your first two trades courses are 8 continuous weeks each, right?



Well, I joined as an Officer, so I don't know if I'll be going on those courses before any of my officer training.  2009 is the problem, I can get 8 weeks off in the future without too much difficulty (I hope).  I don't want to make things difficult, but I do have a job that I depend on to live.


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## Brasidas (23 Jan 2009)

I'm pretty sure you can get BMQ and BMOQ in five weeks, but CAP's your next course and it's quite a bit longer.

If you can take four or five weeks off this summer anyway, you're not going to be missing much in terms of training progression relative to taking a weekend BMQ. I imagine taking the four weeks off so you can take BMQ's going to hurt your pocketbook, though.


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