# Who owns what kit?



## Jammer (6 Jan 2011)

Ok...here is a rant.
I went into clothing stores yesterday to exchange my OD ECW bib pants for CADPAT ones. Why? All of my ECW kit is CADPAT with the exception of said item and if figured that I could get them exchanged no prob so the remained of my kit is uniformly matched. They were perfectly servicable (never worn in fact).
Upon asking if this was possible I was was politely told this was not possible. 
It would seem that the CADPAT stock of ECW kit is now the sole property of the Air Force, thus it is not for issue to Army types...you can have all the OD stuff you want, but don't ask for the CADPAT stuff.
Apparently the AF and the Army through some magical trigonometric formula decided to swap spending priorities...I won't even try to make sense of it.
Suffice to say the AF now has the lock and key over CADPAT ECW kit.


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## REDinstaller (6 Jan 2011)

I know, I've already made this rant, and got educated by Vern. It sucks, but I haven't even worn my OD cold weather stuff out here in Edmonton. Aren't you at CFSCE?


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## Franko (6 Jan 2011)

Yeah, we got told the same thing a while back. I'm sure that there will be a senior supply tech coming along shortly to give a bit more clearance.

Regards


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## AC 011 (6 Jan 2011)

I see they're still giving out the "AF only" line.  I tried to exchange my OD ECW for CADPAT while in Ottawa 2 years ago and got fed the same line.  In the end, no biggie for me since I still had very usable OD gear.  Felt bad for the young Gnr in line behind me who, in addition to being told that CADPAT ECW was for Air Force only, was also told that they had no remaining stock of OD ECW gear to give out - especially since there was a winter EX coming up not far off.

I would have thought they would have this figured out after 2 years (or more).


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## Jammer (6 Jan 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> I know, I've already made this rant, and got educated by Vern. It sucks, but I haven't even worn my OD cold weather stuff out here in Edmonton. Aren't you at CFSCE?



Yeah at CFSCE. 
It's not problem with kit issue (CFSCE types wouldn't get it) but a simple exchange of what I already have.


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## chrisf (6 Jan 2011)

I've never worn my bib overalls either, not even in the arctic, actually, after many years of it just taking up space in the basement, I returned them, period. We've got cadpat "eveything" for stuff we wear on a regular basis, so what's the big deal? Sure it's seems weird at first that the air force has cadpat parkas and pants and the army doesn't, but there's a logical reason for it, so no worries.

What is an absolute crock is when they have on OD stuff to issue, but can't issue cadpat stuff either.... don't know about the reg force situation, or if it's even the same for the reserves as of this year, but we had troops on BMQ for the past few years (Both summer and winter) with no rain gear, and no combat jackets... no OD on the shelf, supply couldn't or wouldn't issue recruits cadpat, so no jacket of any type.


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## PuckChaser (6 Jan 2011)

Your problem is you went to Kingston Clothing Stores. Its their personal kit you know.... basically need a deployment CFTPO to get anything, and even then they order from the depot and give you attitude about having to do that.


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## Jammer (6 Jan 2011)

It's like pulling teeth.
All of my CADPAT ECW kit (minus the bib  the time they only had OD), was issued in Kingston when I was posted to 2 EW.
Ref the CFTPO: The one I have for the Arctic Op Advisor Crse is not quite enough I guess.
I didn't even want to get into asking for snowshoes...They are probably being saved for issue to the DART when the go to Australia to help with the flood.


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## chrisf (6 Jan 2011)

Hmmm, so Kingston supply really is that dismal? I went to pick up some kit before heading to Alert...  was refused mukluks till I raised a stink (They were on the shelf... however the private I first dealt with, then the corporal I dealt with, both told me there were none on the shelf in my size, and refused to check)... yes... mukluks... for Alert... in the winter.... I assumed it was because of my lower case "r", not sure if it makes me feel better or worse to hear the problem is for everyone...


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## PuckChaser (6 Jan 2011)

Big R can't get kit their either, they refused me a Camelback for Afghanistan, even though the rest of my kit was ordered from Depot where the Camelbacks are. "Get it in theatre" was what I was told.


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## Loachman (6 Jan 2011)

It is a strange place. I wanted to ask a question about tailor shop hours and they insisted that I sign in in their little book first. I pointed out to them that they could have answered my question in the same length of time that it took to say that, and repeated my question until one of the three yakking behind the counter told me what I wanted to know.

The young Private who issued my deployment kit to me was first-rate, though, and kept pushing stuff at me. I hope that they do not ruin him.

Other sections in Kingston are similarly weird. Borden people are so much simpler and easier to work with and more sensible and more helpful.


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## REDinstaller (6 Jan 2011)

I went in there once to get a capbadge to sew on at home. And was then told that i couldn't have it unless the tailor was sewing it on at Kingston Clothing. Now how stupid is that.


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## Nfld Sapper (6 Jan 2011)

Jammer said:
			
		

> It's like pulling teeth.
> All of my CADPAT ECW kit (minus the bib  the time they only had OD), was issued in Kingston when I was posted to 2 EW.
> Ref the CFTPO: The one I have for the Arctic Op Advisor Crse is not quite enough I guess.
> I didn't even want to get into asking for snowshoes...They are probably being saved for issue to the DART when the go to Australia to help with the flood.




Lol.... and I got two pairs sitting in my basement.... the old beaver tail and the new bear claw.......


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## Pusser (6 Jan 2011)

Loachman said:
			
		

> It is a strange place. I wanted to ask a question about tailor shop hours and they insisted that I sign in in their little book first. I pointed out to them that they could have answered my question in the same length of time that it took to say that, and repeated my question until one of the three yakking behind the counter told me what I wanted to know.
> 
> The young Private who issued my deployment kit to me was first-rate, though, and kept pushing stuff at me. I hope that they do not ruin him.
> 
> Other sections in Kingston are similarly weird. Borden people are so much simpler and easier to work with and more sensible and more helpful.



It's nice to see that things haven't changed over time.  We were mounting Op ASSURANCE in Kingston back in 1996(?) and were told specifically that if we needed anything from the Base that we to tell whatever section we were dealing with that it was for OP ASSURANCE.  When I did that the reply from Base Transport was that they had been specifically directed NOT to support OP ASSURANCE! :threat:  I just shook my head.  I like Kingston, but the Base has never impressed me.  Everytime I've been back, something has always seemed screwy.  

CFB Kingston - _"We never let operations never affect the Base Routine"_


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## blacktriangle (6 Jan 2011)

When my buddy and I showed up in Kingston, we didn't have any issued boots. I hate the issued boots, but I thought I would humour the army and try to start wearing them. 

"Sorry, we don't have any boots in your size...it will take us about a month to order them" 

So naturally, I went back to wearing my personal boots. After that,  the two of us that didn't have issued boots were actually jacked up by a high ranking type for that reason. 

High ranking type: "We give you boots" 

Me: "No, actually you didn't" 

We politely explained that the options were our boots, hiking shoes, or flip flops. A while later, the chain of command said that it had noticed some "kit shortages" on base, and I was never questioned again. 

I've never had any problems with the staff, though. I'm sure most of them are trying to do their jobs amidst the mountain of BS they have to deal with.


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## LordOsborne (6 Jan 2011)

I've had similarily frustrating experiences dealing with Clothing Stores at CFB Esquimalt, when I lived in Victoria. They seemed to loathe having to deal with the Army. The hours were ludicrous (10AM - 3PM), drop-ins were almost impossible since they usually had lineups of Navy personnel every time I went, and they (understandably) tended to get priority.

When I was with the C Scot R, we had to try our best to have the B Coy troops bus it down from Nanaimo to Esquimalt to get their kit. It was even worse when we tried to get the guys in Courtenay down to Esquimalt. The drive can take 3 hours or more, depending on traffic. On more than one occasion, I remember hearing about the vanpool of troops running a little bit late due to traffic on the highway to Victoria. They tried to call Clothing Stores to see if they would stay open a little longer for the troops, since they had been trying to co-ordinate this stores run for weeks. Sad to say, the Clothing Stores people often times would say no and turn us away, delaying kit issue for weeks or months. 

I also have fond memories of going to Clothing Stores to get my Goretex jacket (OD) when i was fresh out of BMQ ( it wasn't issued to me when I got my kit before BMQ). I was told flatly that I wasn't allowed to have one. I told the clerk that there were fresh Private Recruits in my unit who hadn't even gone to BMQ, yet had the Goretex jacket already. I was told that Officer Cadets weren't allowed to have the Goretex Jacket until they completed their CAP. I was pretty stunned, to say the least  :blotto:

Good times...


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## dimsum (6 Jan 2011)

Off-topic, but curious:  

If the unit is in Courtenay and Nanaimo, couldn't they go to CFB Comox for kit issue?


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Jan 2011)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Off-topic, but curious:
> 
> If the unit is in Courtenay and Nanaimo, couldn't they go to CFB Comox for kit issue?



No. Didn't you read from the beginning? The AF owns all the CADPAT and the Army can't have any. Sheesh : 

j\k ;D


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## Otis (7 Jan 2011)

PatrickO said:
			
		

> I've had similarily frustrating experiences dealing with Clothing Stores at CFB Esquimalt, when I lived in Victoria. They seemed to loathe having to deal with the Army. The hours were ludicrous (10AM - 3PM), drop-ins were almost impossible since they usually had lineups of Navy personnel every time I went, and they (understandably) tended to get priority.
> 
> When I was with the C Scot R, we had to try our best to have the B Coy troops bus it down from Nanaimo to Esquimalt to get their kit. It was even worse when we tried to get the guys in Courtenay down to Esquimalt. The drive can take 3 hours or more, depending on traffic. On more than one occasion, I remember hearing about the vanpool of troops running a little bit late due to traffic on the highway to Victoria. They tried to call Clothing Stores to see if they would stay open a little longer for the troops, since they had been trying to co-ordinate this stores run for weeks. Sad to say, the Clothing Stores people often times would say no and turn us away, delaying kit issue for weeks or months.
> 
> ...



For the record [and you'll have to forgive me if I defend my staff here] ... Clothing Stores operations in CFB Esquimalt have significantly improved from this example. 

Now, if only the Army would get their heads out of thier A$$ and recognize that we support Army units too and ALLOW us to order CADPAT, I could improve service even more.


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## LordOsborne (7 Jan 2011)

Dimsum:

When I left the C Scot R, the unit was still trying to make an arrangement with CFB Comox to do their kit issue from there (at least for the guys in Courtenay). Last I heard, they weren't having any luck, although someone may be able to offer an update or correct me on that. My information is about 2+ years old. At the time, I believe part of the problem was that the Courtenay detachment wasn't much larger than platoon strength, and the effort involved in having Army stores up in CFB Comox wasn't justified by the small numbers. The situation may have changed since then, though. 

Otis: 

I'm glad to hear that things are improving - like I said, my experiences are a few years old, and generally when I managed to get into Clothing Stores, they weren't too bad at giving kit when it was needed / available. The ins and outs of the supply system are (and probably will continue to remain) a mystery to me. Hopefully things will get better for all concerned parties


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