# Transfer from PRes to CIC Officer?



## rage (1 Feb 2008)

Hear alot from the cadets but hardly ever hear from CIC's. I am in the porcess of component transfer from PRES to CIC. Are there any CIC here who have transfered? I am interested to hear some of the experiences. Frankly, I am not happy with PRES and my unit, but am happy and proud to wear the uniform. CIC will be a change but am looking to hear the ups and downs of it all.


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## Simpleton (1 Feb 2008)

rage said:
			
		

> ... CIC will be a change but am looking to hear the ups and downs of it all.



I am not CIC, but just wanted to say "good on you". I know a few CIC officers and they pour their heart and soul into the cadet movement.


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## Roy Harding (1 Feb 2008)

Go here: , Cadets / CIC Fourum, and type "CIC Officer" in the Search box.  You'll get many hits, most of which are germane to your question.

Best of luck to you.


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## Neill McKay (1 Feb 2008)

rage said:
			
		

> Hear alot from the cadets but hardly ever hear from CIC's. I am in the porcess of component transfer from PRES to CIC. Are there any CIC here who have transfered? I am interested to hear some of the experiences. Frankly, I am not happy with PRES and my unit, but am happy and proud to wear the uniform. CIC will be a change but am looking to hear the ups and downs of it all.



Depending on the unit you end up serving in you could find it similar to the P. Res. or very different.  The similarities would be that you're essentially running a training establishment that operates part-time.  You're delivering courses (four of them at a time in a cadet unit), providing logistical and administrative support, leading personnel, and all of the other usual bits.

The differences are that the scale is likely to be smaller unless you're going from a very small P. Res unit to a very large cadet corps.  The level of specialty of the officers is lower -- the officers will virtually all be generalist CIC officers rather than specialist Log Os (e.g.).  The level of support (financial, personnel, and equipment) will be lower.  And, while most units will have some excellent senior cadets in the 'NCM" positions, you'll probably find that officers are doing much of th work that would be done by the NCMs in a P. Res. unit.  (To illustrate, in my experience the Administration Officer of a cadet unit also does much of the work that could be done by the RMS clerks in a P. Res unit.)

The biggest difference is that you're training people from 12 to 18 years old, and they bring their own particular issues to the table in addition to most of those that NCMs bring.  If you like it, you'll probably love it.  But if you don't, it may prove a miserable time.

My stock comment to anyone considering remustering into CIC is that P. Res. experience in any capacity will be very valuable to you and to your unit.  One of the biggest shortcomings in the CIC as a whole is the lack of opportunity to experience much of the greater CF culture (because of the relative isolation of most cadet units), and a member who has already had that opportunity has a lot to share.


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## BobDylan (10 Mar 2008)

Rage, it may just be me but it seems the previous posts assumed you held an officerial position within your PRes unit.  As a private you wouldn't have caught on to what the typical Res officer does.  
However I must say I agree wholeheartedly that any experience gained through the reserves would be a mighty plus to a cadet unit/squadron.  
I find myself in much the same position you are.  However instead of 'downgrading' in the military sense, I've applied to RMC.  If that doesn't fall through though I too will consider becoming a member of the CIC... and not to offend anyone involved in the cadet movement, but it kind of hurts 'downgrading' like that, eh?  But as previously stated, it is an extremely worthy organization.


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## Neill McKay (12 Mar 2008)

Bob Dylan said:
			
		

> However instead of 'downgrading' in the military sense, I've applied to RMC.  If that doesn't fall through though I too will consider becoming a member of the CIC... and not to offend anyone involved in the cadet movement, but it kind of hurts 'downgrading' like that, eh?



If you feel that the downgrade from private (if there is such a thing) "hurts", well, nobody will force you to do it.  If you decide to be a CIC officer it should be because that's what you want to do, otherwise I'm afraid you mightn't enjoy it much.  I guess I would compare it to wanting to join the navy because you love the sea but instead ending up as a vehicle tech in the army -- same Forces, but you might not find what you were looking for in your new trade.  On the other hand, you might discover that you love working on vehicles and forget that you ever wanted to do anything else.  By all means give it a try -- I'm sure that most units would very much welcome your help!


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## BobDylan (13 Mar 2008)

That's a good comparison, yes.  I don't think you quite understood what I meant by 'downgrading'.  As previously stated, CIC is a wonderful organization which I admire.  However, like previously stated, there is less personnel, less funding and less experience.  
So let me try again: I began as a cadet and progressed into the PRes, where everything is done on a much larger scale.  So to go back to cadets is, in that sense, a step down.
Regardless, I look forward to serving wherever I end up to the best of my abilities!


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## rage (4 May 2008)

I had my medical and interview a couple of weeks ago at CFRC Calgary. All went well, so, what is the wait time like at this point? I look forward to this new begining and am ready for what ever is in store.

Rage


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## Neill McKay (5 May 2008)

rage said:
			
		

> I had my medical and interview a couple of weeks ago at CFRC Calgary. All went well, so, what is the wait time like at this point? I look forward to this new begining and am ready for what ever is in store.



At this point it could go very quickly, or it could be a while.  With pers who have served in the Forces before the verification of former service seems to be a big holdup.  When I came back as a CIC officer my enrolment took well over a year, and a lot of that was because of my former service.  Nothing noteworthy in it, good or bad, but it seems to have taken a long time to dig up the files that had to be dug up.

But all that was before my medical and interview, so if you've had those then my guess is you're getting very close to being sworn in.


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## 1feral1 (5 May 2008)

Hey Rage, good on you for wanting to devote your time to the Cadet movement. I am sure they can use your TI and expereince.

Good luck.


Cheers,


Wes


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## mysteriousmind (5 May 2008)

I used to be a CIC, served from 1998 until late 2005, then did a component transfer to Pres as NCM, and frankly, it was the best move I ever did for me. 

CIC is a great movement, don't get me wrong, I met allot of great people, and might me in as adviser next year. 

but you must consider that you will be doing allot of free time for the organisation as a CIC is paid around 23 days per year, the least I did at my cadet corp was around 42-43, 

you will have allot of planing and allot of paperwork to do on your own time, plus all the extra asked by your CO.

Working with cadet is really a great experience, and if you can share what you have learn your will benefit it even more, seeing those kid lighten up because you were able to show them that they can achieve goals they could not even imagine, or to see them having their spirit high because you believe in them is priceless.

you will fall on imbecile CIC and will fall on great CIC, but that's like any other organisation. 

Its not an easy job, but it was worth it. I have learn allot from it.

If you have any question pm me and we will talk.


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## gun runner (13 Aug 2008)

As per the topic at hand, I was a PRes for 3 1/2 years in the artillery(88-91), and had to resign due to a bum medical(heart murmurs are a pain in the $#@). How will that outcome affect my app. for CIC? I am at present a 36 year old professional who has a comfortable job and a family.. and no gym membership. I hear from members inside that the phys. fit. req. are the same as the forces applicants and that could kybosh my app. process immediatly. Not to mention the 3 1/2 years of sitting on the non business end of a loaded 105mm Howitzer all summer with inadequate hearing protection( anyone remember those cheap ear defenders they used to issue?)totally screwed my hearing..not that my present profession of locomotive engineer helps. Is the current medical/physical requirements for CIC the same as the PRes forces et al?


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## rage (13 Aug 2008)

When I went in for my medical, the exact words from CFRC people was alot of CIC applicants are held together by duct tape. If you are interested in CIC, I would suggest going through the process & see what happens. Remember that this is not combat arms it is the supervision & administration of the cadet movement promoting youth to become upstanding citizens of this country. Not to mention promoting leadership amongst youth.

Rage


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## gun runner (13 Aug 2008)

Thanks for the reply..it made me feel a little better! My app. is in process but I havent had the medical done yet. I was told that the C.O is trying to fast track my app. for admin purposes( I am currently assigned as a Trg O for the Cdt unit) and he would love to see me in uniform. I guess the years are starting to show on me and I was worried that the CFRC would reject me for the younger versions coming out of the cadet programs instead( possible still ). Ubique


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## gwp (13 Aug 2008)

gun runner said:
			
		

> I was worried that the CFRC would reject me for the younger versions coming out of the cadet programs instead( possible still ). Ubique


Minimum medical for CF CIC is V4 CV3 H3 G3 O3 A5  Same as for general officers. 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/pdf/engraph/cfp154_annexEappen1-2_e.pdf


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## gun runner (13 Aug 2008)

I am sorry, I do not understand what all that stuff means. (Railroader..not a doctor!!)


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## Jabrwock (13 Aug 2008)

gun runner said:
			
		

> I am sorry, I do not understand what all that stuff means. (Railroader..not a doctor!!)


Context helps. Annex E doesn't explain the codes, because it's in Chapt 3. Information overload. 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/engraph/cfp154_chap3_e.asp

V - Visual Acuity (do you need glasses)
CV - Colour Vision (colourblind?)
H - Hearing (eh? what was that?)
G - Geographical Factor (how your health reacts to local climate/flora/fauna)
O - Occupational Factor (how your health reacts to doing the job)
A - Air Factor (ability to operate an aircraft A5 means qualified to be a passenger)

Usually the higher the number, the stricter the requirement (1 across the board would be for stuff like astronauts)

On the whole though, if your heart troubles don't prevent you from doing a CIC job (and that would be up to the Surgeon General's office to decide, based on your medical), then I don't see why you'd have any problems transferring. It's more a "is he/she fit for this job, yes/no?", rather than "can we slot in some young buck instead?".


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## MAJONES (13 Aug 2008)

When I was working at the CFRC we had a number of CICs not meet the medical categories.  It wasn't a problem, we sent their files onto the Regional Cadet Support Unit and if they wanted the applicant they just waived the medical requirments.


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## mysteriousmind (13 Aug 2008)

for example, in 1998 when I joined, I was not fit, to join the forces, for a medical reason, but I was enrolled any way as CIC are always in need of officer,

and don't forgot this, if your are at a point that you have to deal with the CFRC, it means, that a unit CO has shown interest into  having you on his team.  It is not like the regs or the reserve. Usually the place are offered to people who had shown interest in a cadet unit, and has spoken with the CO and the CO has given you a thumbs up. 

that little thing is important, and lets face it. CIC does not require that much of "fit people". I have seen some CIC with, special medical thing that would have never passed in regs or Pres.


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## gwp (13 Aug 2008)

mysteriousmind said:
			
		

> ...don't forgot, if your are at a point that you have to deal with the CFRC, it means, that a unit CO has shown interest into  having you on his team.  It is not like the regs or the reserve. Usually the place are offered to people who had shown interest in a cadet unit, and has spoken with the CO and the CO has given you a thumbs up.


That is because there must be an established position at a cadet corps or squadron.  The actual recommendation to enrol in the CF CIC is a responsibility of the civilian League Sponsor who under QR and O cadets " is responsible for recommending suitable persons for enrolment in the CF and employment as cadet instructors" .  The process begins with being accepted at the local corps/squadron by the sponsoring committee and the commanding officer.  The enrollment paper work is approved by both before it is forwarded to the RCSU and onward to CFRC.  


> ....and lets face it. CIC does not require that much of "fit people". I have seen some CIC with, special medical thing that would have never passed in regs or Pres.



That being said, it is desirable and important that as a member of the CF one "looks the part".  After all the aim of the cadet program includes "promote physical fitness".   

Yes, there are some extreme body types in the CF CIC, but there are as many extreme body types wandering around bases, stations, and ships.  In the cadet world sometimes the person that steps up to the plate in many communities has all of the attributes ... but ocassionally doesn't look the part - but without them the corps/squadron would be without leadership.


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## mysteriousmind (14 Aug 2008)

From being former CIC, I speak in knowledge of cause. 

and from, what I have seen in the pass you could be suprised....


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## mysteriousmind (14 Aug 2008)

I'm in Quebec city,  and I don't pretend to speak for all the regions,

And I continue to stand my ground. a majority of CIC, perhaps not a big majority, but never the less a majority of CIC would not pass the CF express test, It is not required to join in as a CIC and it should be mandatory, after all they are member of the CF and they are officers.  


and I won't speak that matter no more as we are bringing this thread into an other way that was not intended.


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## MAJONES (14 Aug 2008)

Hey guys, lets just chill for second OK   .  You both have valid points.  From what I have seen the CIC is a bit dichotomus (sorry if I spelled that wrong).  There are plenty of CIC officers that are in good shape, and I would hazard a guess that these form the majority.  I find most of the CIC in this category are former cadets.  There are some CIC that do not look as if they could pass the express test.  At the risk of offending someone I would say that these members stand out to such an extent that they overshadow the fit ones and give an *erronious* perception that most of the CIC is out of shape.


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## gwp (14 Aug 2008)

MAJONES said:
			
		

> There are plenty of CIC officers that are in good shape, and I would hazard a guess that these form the majority.  I find most of the CIC in this category are former cadets.


Whether that is supportable or not it supports the idea of promoting physical fitness for cadets.   


> There are some CIC that do not look as if they could pass the express test.  At the risk of offending someone I would say that these members stand out to such an extent that they overshadow the fit ones and give an *erronious* perception that most of the CIC is out of shape.


There are members of the RegF and PRes that do not look as if they could pass the express test.

For the record.
Of the over 7,000 officers of the CF CIC

43% are aged 18 to 30   (28% are 25 or under)
42% are aged 31 to 50
15% are aged 50+         ( 2.1% are 61 to -65)

About 28 % of Cadet Instructors have RegF experience (an average of 5.3 years)
About 17 % of Cadet Instructors have PRes experience (an average of 2.7 years)
Others are Canadians enrolling in the CF some former cadets others members of the community at large ... the same recruiting base as the entire CF.   

An enrollee in the CF CIC serves for an average of 5.4 years.  

Their level of their fitness matches that of the Canadian population which is mirrored by the entire CF. 

Even to suggest that most of the CF CIC is comprised of former cadets is without substance.  Like the rest of the CF, we don't keep track and the notiion is irrelevant.  What does having been a cadet mean? Seven weeks or 7 years?  It could be that the majority of those under 25 are former cadets ... but there is no solid statistic.


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## gun runner (14 Aug 2008)

Ok, this has all been a good read,but I have heard that the CFRC is going to apply the CF fitness standard to all new CIC applicants regardless of where they are coming from,civillian or Forces. Is this the truth? I have no idea... but it is supposed to match the current fitness standards of the Forces in all of its elements. Any body heard the same? If it the truth then I will hanker a guess that the enrollment proceedures for CIC applicants will get alot harder to do,and as such the ranks will thin for it. The CIC are volunteers as much as any other element of our Forces, but are drawn mainly from the civil sector for resources..correct? Ubique


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## rwgill (14 Aug 2008)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> Everyone is born a civilian.


Not Rick Hillier  ;D


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## mysteriousmind (14 Aug 2008)

or Chuck Norris!!!  ;D


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## gun runner (17 Aug 2008)

Gotcha,....out. Ubique


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## armyvern (17 Aug 2008)

rage said:
			
		

> Let's do a hault here boys. The orignal post was Transfer from PRES to CIC; I think we may have started a new thread here on CIC fitness standards.



True that. Perhaps a mod can split it off into it's own CIC fitness standards thread?


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## Burrows (17 Aug 2008)

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/78996.0.html

Split.


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