# Hate to waste current experience just to be accepted into the CF



## miraclarke (28 May 2010)

I am currently in the application process, preferably Navy, and have quite an extensive education/experience 25+ years in broadcasting. Was hoping for Imagery Tech. I was told "no chance" of getting into that trade. Naval Communications was my second choice. However, I hate to waste my past experience knowing that there is a military trade that is geared toward my field of work. I'm sorry if I sound suspicious, but I'd like some opinions on this: 
I feel as though I am being excessively encouraged to enroll in the NavComm trade because it is in-demand. Is there something I am not being told, such as possible direct entry into the Imagery Tech trade even though the courses are closed? I am 43 years old and was told by my military siblings that prior learning experience would mean an acting rank after BMQ.  At the risk of sounding arrogant: There isn't much in the line of audio/visual technical training the military can offer me that I don't already have, ie: 3yrs vocational, 3yrs college level, 20+ years on-the-job as well as 15yrs underwater video.
The recruitment office says I might be able to remuster into that trade later, but wouldn't that mean I would lose any initial advantages to having education and experience in that trade, ie: higher rank? Also, I have a lot of experience in teaching broadcasting at high school level, are there opportunites for instructors? Any comments appreciated.


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## chrisf (28 May 2010)

If you want the trade, wait. 

Don't believe the "you can remuster later" nonsense.


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## dangerboy (28 May 2010)

There is no real conspiracy here.  If the recruiting centre told you that the Imagery trade is closed it is because it is.  Each trade is only alllowed to have some many people in it and Imagery being a very popular trade is completely full.  There is nothing that the recruiting centre can do about that, if a trade is full they can not hire people in that trade.  So they probably looked at your paperwork and noted that Naval Communicators have vacancies that is why they offered it to you.


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## The Bread Guy (28 May 2010)

On the other hand, I know some very good photographers in the CF who were good photographers before they became military photographers.  They entered another trade, and remustered.  My old info is that it's a bit of a long wait to get into the trade, but I stand to be corrected on that.

Think of any time you spend in the CF before remustering as time learning the system, the "subject", the environment - while you may be technically proficient, being a _military_ imagery collector isn't exactly the same as being a _journalistic_ or _documentary_ imagery collector.

Nobody would be stopping you from keeping your skills honed in your off time.

Also, I can't read your mind or see into your heart, but _if_ you're just looking for the higher rank and pay, some might question your motivation for joining the CF.  There's a lot of sacrifice involved - those who see it as a vocation will question anyone thinking of it as just a job.

Good luck in your quest.


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## 2010newbie (28 May 2010)

miraclarke said:
			
		

> I was told "no chance" of getting into that trade.



No chance because it was closed or no chance because it is extremely competitive?


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## Journeyman (28 May 2010)

miraclarke said:
			
		

> I feel as though I am being excessively encouraged to enroll in the NavComm trade because it is in-demand.


Please understand that the whole purpose of recruiting/remustering is to meet the operational needs of the CF. While meeting individual desires is an obvious benefit, it is secondary consideration. As such, if "the big machine" needs NavComm personnel more than Imagery Techs, that will be the recruiting emphasis. It may not seem fair individually, but kind of makes sense organizationally. 

I suspect that we have lots of applicants with extensive experience spray-painting buildings, bridges and ATM machines, but few are hired to refurbish vehicles in 202 Workshop.


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## miraclarke (28 May 2010)

Some good comments...just what I was looking for. Thank You. 

As far as my motivation for joining the CF: at my current age, the thought of my life winding down toward retirement was pi**ing me off. I'm too young to be thinking that way, I have a lot of good working years left in me and the forces seemed like an exciting path to take. So regardless of what it takes to be a member, I am up for it! 

Thanx again for your comments.


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## gcclarke (28 May 2010)

2010newbie said:
			
		

> No chance because it was closed or no chance because it is extremely competitive?



Both, I would imagine. Image Tech seems to be one of those trades that fills up as soon as it's opened. It's both rather popular (Combat Camera is cool, etc), and a relatively small trade (Less than 300 total). Due to both of these factors, it is one of the few trades that are actually over-strength at the moment, and I expect it will be for the foreseeable future. This results in a paucity of direct entry positions. They appear to prefer Occupation Transfers as a method of producing Image Techs, as it is easier to take someone with combat / military experience and teach them how to work a camera than it is to take someone who knows how to work a camera, and give them combat / military experience.

So yeah, assuming there were any direct entry positions availible to begin with, they likely would have been snapped up real quick-like.


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## Loachman (28 May 2010)

miraclarke said:
			
		

> As far as my motivation for joining the CF: at my current age, the thought of my life winding down toward retirement was pi**ing me off. I'm too young to be thinking that way, I have a lot of good working years left in me and the forces seemed like an exciting path to take. So regardless of what it takes to be a member, I am up for it!



I'm glad that you clarified that. Thanks.

I can assure you that any talents, skills, abilities, and experience that you bring into the CF with you will be gladly abused, um, savagely exploited, er, put to good use somehow, and that may well lead you in the direction that you want in the future. There are what are known as "secondary duties" in units, minor but essential (sometimes, at least) jobs that are given to people in addition to their basic jobs. One of these is the Unit Public Affairs Officer/NCO or Unit Information Officer/NCO or whatever it's called now. You could seek that out, and that could well get you enough notice to get a crack at an OT ot Imagery Tech.


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## TruckerJeff (28 May 2010)

Does anyone here know an ImagTech that got in as a recruit? I know a few of them and they all OTd from various trades....none got in as a Phototech.....


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## Michael OLeary (28 May 2010)

I had an infantry Corporal working for me about four years ago that got in as an Occupational Transfer.  This was after a number of years (4-6?) of applying each year.  He also worked throughout that time at improving his photography, which he was recognized for in all of his prior postings, and latterly his digital editing skills. He had repeatedlhy won awards in the CF photo contests and was known to members of the trade for his skills before being accepted on OT.


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## Nuggs (28 May 2010)

Themouse said:
			
		

> Does anyone here know an ImagTech that got in as a recruit? I know a few of them and they all OTd from various trades....none got in as a Phototech.....



Every one I know, is an OT


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## aesop081 (28 May 2010)

Themouse said:
			
		

> Does anyone here know an ImagTech that got in as a recruit?



I certainly do. I have worked with a few over the last few years.


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## Eye In The Sky (28 May 2010)

Both of the ones I know personally were OTs combined with CTs from the Reserves.

As for why they might not be taking applicants...it may also be they have a backlog in training the ones currently in the trade who haven't gotten their QL3 yet, which was a bottleneck for the trade not that recently, as the school in Borden can only run X amount of courses with X amount of people on them, and their courses are longer than most people would expect.

That info is from one of the Image Techs I know personally, who is a MCpl at the School.


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## miraclarke (29 May 2010)

Thanx for the suggestion Loachman,
That's certainly encouraging.


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## Infanteer (29 May 2010)

IIRC, but wasn't Image Tech closed off to all but the Infantry to support the SVOTP to divest some of the excess manpower?  Can someone confirm this?


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## DaWickerMan (1 Jun 2010)

Figured I'd give you my experiencein two points.

First, as the above posters mentioned, don't listen to that "you can remuster" nonsense.  Remustering is an extremely painful and overlong process (not for everyone, but for the majority of the soldiers/sailors/airmen I have met), and is generally not worth it.  If you're going into the Forces, make damn sure you pick the right trade and commit to it.

Second, Image Techs, well generally the CF only takes 5 nationally every year.  5.  Think about how many applicants there are for a "cool looking" trade like that.  It is EXTREMELY competitive.  The right time to apply would be the the beginning of April for that specific trade, as I was told several times when I worked at a recruiting center.

Best of luck.


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## armychick2009 (3 Jun 2010)

I was merit listed earlier this year (and late last year) for imagery. They "normally" open between 2 and 8 positions a year. (All of this info is what I was told by the recruiting office, disclaimer, take it for what it's worth)... they could have hundreds each year apply for it. However, this year they did not open it. OT's have first dibs on any positions this year as part of a voluntary change of trades.  

I know of only one person who became imagery who did NOT do an OT to get it -- straight off the street. It's a rarity though, from those imagery techs that I've spoken to first hand. 

I don't have the luxury of waiting around a few years for the trade to re-open so I chose another one. What I am doing (and am in no way implying _you _should, again, MY personal experience) is that I have selected another trade that I was merit-listed for and will be going to BMQ sometime in the near future to do that. However, over the next few years I will be continuing to work on my photography and videography to better my portfolio should the option arise where an OT is possible.  

It's a great trade I am told from all of the imagery people I have spoken to first-hand. There's a good reason it's difficult to get into. _Now_ -- all that being said, I was told if I really wanted to get an imagery position, I could look around for a reserve unit that may have an opening for imagery to get my foot into the door. However, I currently need full-time salary and it wasn't feasible for me to pack house and move towards a unit elsewhere for part-time work. 

Again, these are just my opinions on something I've just gone through. I am in no way an expert on the subject and am expressing only my very limited knowledge which includes first-hand accounts, interviews and my views on the subject.    ;D


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## Fotoshark (30 Jun 2010)

Is there anyone on here that actually works the job, that could comment on the day to day job?  What you do etc?

Also on another note, are you allowed to photograph things on base/missions as a civilian (but still apart of the canadian forces)  ?  Its hard to word that I'm hoping its understood what I'm trying to ask, if not I can try again to explain it a little better.

- T.


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## Loachman (1 Jul 2010)

I am not sure what you mean by "a civilian (but still apart of the canadian forces)" - DND employee?

Unless signs otherwise indicate, photography is generally permitted, but could generate suspicion.


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## armychick2009 (1 Jul 2010)

I can't answer on whether it is acceptable or not. I'm not in the forces yet. But, your question reminded me of something I had seen a few months ago which is a contest that happens each year. 

Here's the general info:

http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/Sp/PhotoContestHome_e.asp


And here is an example of some of their photography: 
http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/Sp/2009Winners/2009CategoryWinners_e.asp
http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/Sp/2008Winners/Amateur/MilitaryLIfe_e.asp <--- this one has military type photos in it, for you to see

(they have it going back about four years, if you look around and from that, you can see what kind of photography has been submitted)


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## Fotoshark (1 Jul 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I am not sure what you mean by "a civilian (but still apart of the canadian forces)" - DND employee?
> 
> Unless signs otherwise indicate, photography is generally permitted, but could generate suspicion.



Not on duty.  

- T.


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## Loachman (1 Jul 2010)

Being off duty does not make you a civilian. What is your current status, military or civilian?


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## Fotoshark (1 Jul 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Being off duty does not make you a civilian. What is your current status, military or civilian?



Both were generalizations, whether civilian or off duty military, is it frowned upon?

Currently civilian, waiting to write CFAT.

- T.


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## George Wallace (1 Jul 2010)

It doesn't matter if you are civilian, military off duty, or military on duty; if a sign says "NO PHOTOGRAPHS" it is definitely frowned upon (as was already stated by Loachman).  At most other times "good judgement" and "discretion" would best answer your question.


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## Fotoshark (2 Jul 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It doesn't matter if you are civilian, military off duty, or military on duty; if a sign says "NO PHOTOGRAPHS" it is definitely frowned upon (as was already stated by Loachman).  At most other times "good judgement" and "discretion" would best answer your question.



My apologies, I haven't been on base so I'm unaware of such signs just yet.  I was looking for someone else's experience on the subject having taken field photos, the ones found online gotta come from somewhere.  I'm curious if an Imagery Tech took them or if someone 'snuck' a camera on tour/mission with them.  Sorry I guess I could have elaborated more detail as to what I was inquiring about.

- T.


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## George Wallace (2 Jul 2010)

Photographs and videos have summed up peoples careers, brought about the disbandment of Regiments, and caused loss of life.  Cameras, be they a camera, a video camera, a cell phone, etc. are everywhere.  Think before you take a shot and think again before you publish.  Something funny to you, may not be to someone else.  Images taken out of context are very damaging.


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## Loachman (2 Jul 2010)

Lots of people have cameras with them. You'll be briefed about restrictions during ops, and there are usually signs where photography is not permitted.

Posting photos online is another matter. Too many people post things that they should not, or post photos of others without permission.

*Or* pretty much what George just said a little quicker.


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## Fotoshark (3 Jul 2010)

I wasn't referring to any photography/videography of the derogatory state at all.  Purely artistic, or lack of a better word/discription.  I mean no offence by my inquiry, forgive me it seems I am being misunderstood/misinterpreted.  

Here are a couple examples generalized.

http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/1024x768/2007/Army__004476_.jpg

http://www.armymwr.com/images/news/0949-cannon.jpg

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//5b/f/5bf172138afc3907b852805047ea7f97.jpg

I gave links to save on bandwith.


I'm aware there are cameras everywhere, Ive seen a few photos military friends of mine have submitted of their own but just of the hangin around portions, aka the kind they frown upon.  That isn't what I am asking about, I'm asking about the artistic side, those taken to capture a specific moment, portrait etc.  There are photo contests for military photography I am unaware of but I would assume they exhist, so that would imply the use of camera equipemtn, is it an Imagery Tech that captured those or are civilians/off duty recruits able to participate in such things ?

Again I apologize if this is misunderstood.  I am not trying to inquire as to derogatory or incriminating photography.

- T.


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## chrisf (3 Jul 2010)

Damn, I don't understand why people needed to make this one complicated... he asked a simple question, even if it's a question that seems absurdly simple to those of us in the forces, he's not in the forces, and it's not an absurdly simple question to him.

Yes, you can take pictures as a soldier, people do it all the time.  If you want to take artsy pics, go for it. I've got a small canon power shot which fits perfectly into a plastic cigarette case and then in turn fits perfectly into a combat shirt pocket. 

Given that a career in the forces can take you to some very unique places, it's nice to be able to take pictures to show your friends and family where you've been. If you're handy with the camera, it's even better. Beaches in cyrpus, first sunrise at the north pole, the rocky mountains, etc... all fantastic photo opportunities...

Now, what other people were talking about. There are occasionally security concerns, for example, when it comes to training, and especially operations. There are very seldom signs saying "no picture" (Though they do exist, generally at the entrances to areas containing somthing sensitive).

 Just be aware of what you photograph. Yourself on your buddies on top of the rocky mountains during adventure training, no problem, yourself and your buddies on operations, there may be a problem... if you're not sure if you should be taking a photograph, ask first. Anything that reveals tactics, current or future operations, or personal information, shouldn't be shared....

Then there's the "national post test". Ask yourself, how would I feel if my grandmother saw this picture on the cover of the national post? If she wouldn't like it, don't take the picture. (That test also works to determine if you should or shouldn't be doing whatever you're doing, if your grandmother wouldn't like what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it).


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## CFR FCS (3 Jul 2010)

Image Tech is NOT open for direct entry this FY, there are no vacancies except for the special Infantry voluntary occupational transfer program.

I would suggest you apply as an Image tech and request a Prior Learning Assessment Report (PLAR) be done to see if you are classed as semi skilled. With your application submit a resume and a sample of your work.  Once the PLAR is back you will know for sure if your experience will bring you shortened training and a higher salary with your offer of employment. Best of Luck.

feel free to PM me if you have questions.


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## Fotoshark (4 Jul 2010)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Damn, I don't understand why people needed to make this one complicated... he asked a simple question, even if it's a question that seems absurdly simple to those of us in the forces, he's not in the forces, and it's not an absurdly simple question to him.
> 
> Yes, you can take pictures as a soldier, people do it all the time.  If you want to take artsy pics, go for it. I've got a small canon power shot which fits perfectly into a plastic cigarette case and then in turn fits perfectly into a combat shirt pocket.
> 
> ...



Thank you, you answered my question and then some perfectly.  I appreciate it.  I also wondered how they lugged around their cameras as if it were me I would be afraid for the camera to get damaged, but the plastic case makes perfect sense   Thanks again, I appreciate your time.

- T.


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## Loachman (4 Jul 2010)

I bought a "cheap" camera for Afghanistan, just in case it got broken.


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