# AK-47‘s ?????



## AZA-02 (21 Nov 2003)

i want to know why some people think an AK-47 is great.
 Does anyone have any experience with them to proof them wrong?


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## Infanteer (21 Nov 2003)

Rugged construction and virtually no maintainence required, the perfect weapon for an ill-trained army.

However, a well-trained military can get much better performance off a more precision small arms family (C-7,C-8) due to increased attention to upkeep.


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## Infanteer (21 Nov 2003)

Oh yeah, cheap too...but don‘t expect to be dropping targets consistanly from the 300


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## patrick666 (21 Nov 2003)

Yeah, AKs can go through anything and still have the ability to fire. Though I heard the recoil on them is a beotch. 

What is the calibre? 7.72mm?


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## Superman21 (21 Nov 2003)

No, haven‘t experienced the Ak-47, but I watched 
my best friend Danny Thompson get shot and killed 
by one, so no there not so great.


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## Superman21 (21 Nov 2003)

That‘s a tough question, the 7.72mm is small handgun and it takes 3.14 full metal jacket bullets.


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## patt (21 Nov 2003)

easy to get on the blackmarket


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (21 Nov 2003)

The AK-47 fires a 7.62mm x 39mm round.  Along with the AKM.  Which is an upgraded AK-47.  The AK-74 replaced the 47 in service with the Red Army in ...1974.  It fires a 5.45mm x 39mm round.

  :fifty:    :gunner:


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## GrahamD (21 Nov 2003)

> No, haven‘t experienced the Ak-47, but I watched
> my best friend Danny Thompson get shot and killed
> by one, so no there not so great.


Sorry to hear that.  How did it happen?
Was it in the news?


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## Enzo (21 Nov 2003)

AK-47: 7.62x39mm. The original Russian assault rifle, the cartridge was a compromise, cheap to manufacture, simple to care for and operate, robust, effective. Limited range compared to other calibre‘s. Many built under license from satellite countries in many forms.

AK-74: 5.45x39mm. Replaced the AK-47, followed the theories of a smaller calibre bullet causing more damage to people, etc... More ammuntion for less weight, etc... Robust as the predecessors, many variants, etc...

AK-101: 5.56x45mm NATO. Designed for world‘s weapons markets. Similar in features to AK-74.

AK-103: 7.62x39mm. A return to the original calibre. More powerful than AK-74 with newer technological inclusions.

AK-102,104,105: Compact version for commercial sales outside of Russia. All 3 calibre‘s represented and better characteristics than AKs-74U.

AK-107,108: New version of AK w/ opposing gas rods (reduces full auto recoil) in either 5.45 & 5.56mm.

AN-94: 5.45x39mm. Slated to replace the AK-74 from service, but due to primarily economic factors, has seen limited release internally in Russia (mainly elite units). Considered the "professional‘s" choice. Very accurate w/ 2 rd burst. Not likely to be seen in developing countries.

That‘s the roundup. There are so many variants, it‘s a very popular family of rifles. Due to it‘s low cost and ease of operation. Not my first choice, but then again, as so many US troops are doing, it‘s abundant, so why not. In Iraq, there are reports of US troops using AK variants as ammunition is plentiful and the robustness comes in handy in such a sandy theatre.

Hope you find this useful.


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## mattoigta (21 Nov 2003)

Why exactly are smaller calibres better?


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (21 Nov 2003)

You can carry more ammo.  They have optimum performance at ranges between 0-300 metres.  Meaning they perform better in those ranges then a larger calibre.  The weapons are easier to handle due to less weight and recoil.


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## mattoigta (21 Nov 2003)

Thanks

hey are you argylls having a fibua weekend this weekend?


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (21 Nov 2003)

Yes, yes we are.  And I think you mean OIBUA young Riley.  This is the fourth name change for OIBUA in four years.  Soon it‘ll be F.I.S.H. (Fighting In Someone‘s House)


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (21 Nov 2003)

What are you Rock Hudson‘s doing this weekend?


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## mattoigta (21 Nov 2003)

We‘re doing the same, I heard that we might be shooting eachother this weekend. We‘re apparently going to be in an abandoned school somewhere in Hamilton


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (21 Nov 2003)

Scott Park, near Ivor Wynne Stadium.  I‘m not sure.  I didn‘t hear anything.  We are working on entry drills.  Dynamic Entry, Method of Entry Experts.  JTF2 kinda stuff.  Should be fun.  Its alway good fun kicking down doors and window.  Blowing holes in buildings.  And remember a Carl Gustav is now an effective method for creating a point of entry in a building.  Unless you can squeeze yourself through a hole the size of a softball.  :fifty:    :gunner:


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## jonsey (21 Nov 2003)

Dude, you guys get to mess around is Scott Park??? Cool!!!  I knew that place would make for good paintball!


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## combat_medic (27 Nov 2003)

I got to fire an AK47 for the first time recently, and I must say that there was surprisingly little recoil. It wasn‘t much different than firing the C7, or an SKS. I fired a Tommy Gun at the same range, and found it to have more kick, not to mention being heavy as all he||, surprising considering the size.

Why the AK is good, is because it‘s durable, cheap, $hit simple to operate, difficult to break, and is reasonable accurate at short-medium ranges, not to mention that 7.62 has a lot more stopping power than 5.56 (assuming you actually hit the target). Are there better weapons? Yes, many, but most are more expensive and difficult to mass produce. If you go to certain parts of Africa, you can buy an AK47 for about $5 US. 

As for calibres, the 7.62 x 39 is nice because it‘s about as light as a 5.56 x 45 round, but has more stopping power at closer ranges. If you‘re doing CQB of any kind, the 7.62 will drop someone a lot faster. The drawback, of course, is that it doesn‘t have the range or accuracy of the longer rounds.


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## Spr.Earl (27 Nov 2003)

Here‘s a very good site about the Ak.

  http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/


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## Jarnhamar (27 Nov 2003)

No, haven‘t experienced the Ak-47, but I watched 
my best friend Danny Thompson get shot and killed 
by one, so no there not so great.

SO it was the AK47s fault right?

At 70 meters give or take i had to aim high and left by about a foot and a half, maybe closer to two. I‘m sure theres more accurate ones out there but that was pretty horrible.


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## lawandorder (3 Jun 2006)

I was under the impression the AK took 7.63 not 7.62 rounds.  They can use our rounds in their weapons, but we can't use theirs.


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## COBRA-6 (3 Jun 2006)

Law & Order said:
			
		

> I was under the impression the AK took 7.63 not 7.62 rounds.  They can use our rounds in their weapons, but we can't use theirs.



No, the AK uses 7.62x39mm.


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## GAP (3 Jun 2006)

The AK-47 is a very effective, all weather, minimal training weapon that delivers good firepower. Having been on the receiving end of their fire and having used one in lieu of an M16, I would rate them very high. (It didn't take very long for the higher-highers to put a kibosh on our use of the 47)


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## KevinB (3 Jun 2006)

combat_medic said:
			
		

> As for calibres, the 7.62 x 39 is nice because it‘s about as light as a 5.56 x 45 round, but has more stopping power at closer ranges. If you‘re doing CQB of any kind, the 7.62 will drop someone a lot faster. The drawback, of course, is that it doesn‘t have the range or accuracy of the longer rounds.



Sorry no way -- stay in your lane.

M44 7.62x39 Russian is a VERY aenemic round - with a terrible wound profile.

M855/C77 ball will fragement in CQB distances inside the human body (typically a 7" neck prior to framentation unless bone is struck) - While the M44 round will yaw and do a 360 - it does not fragment (low velocity) and does little damage.

Secondly the dam round weigh a lot and I can carry three M4 mags for the weight of 1 AK mag...

 Despite popular myth the AK is not a particularily robust weapon - the gas tube cover on the upper handguard is sheet metal and if bent at all will impeed the piston and the weapon will not function (dont drop or let someone run over an AK...)  The Ak due to the piston tends to keep goign and going with a high round count and little cleaning.  However with the safety off the reciever has a large opening for dirt and other crap to become housed inside it (BAD).
  The safety is the most unergonomic POS imangineable so it is impossible to slip off with your right hand without removing it from the pistol grip (or at least impossible to maintain a function firing grip) - it is best left OFF Safe and not readied - readying when you need it -- or if you think you will need it - ready it and leave it off safe.

 Having been forced to use an AK for a while in Afghanistan - I HATE IT.


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## Infanteer (3 Jun 2006)

Not to mention that you can slice your friggen hand right open if you ain't careful when you ready the thing.... 8)


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## KevinB (3 Jun 2006)

Tsk Tsk -- rotate the gun toward the left side and use your left  - plus you should be wearing gloves when playing with toys


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## teddy49 (4 Jun 2006)

I think "The Infidel"  is being a little hard on them.  Or he's just spoiled by all that M-4 goodness. ;D  I've seen a lot of pretty messed up AKs here, but I've yet to see one with a bent gas tube.  Not that it can't happen, but it's certainly not common.  And believe me, Iraqis never fail to amaze me with their new and innovative ways to screw up perfectly good rifles.  An Ultimak rail is a simple solution to that problem.

How far do you have to drop your AK for it to stop working?  I think the AK ties with the FAL for being able to work with the most parts removed.

I'm pretty sure that most rifles would be the worse for wear after being run over by any vehicle.  And I'd dare say that a milled receiver AK would fair better than most.

But like "The Infidel" said7.62x39 is a pretty anemic round all considered, with external ballistics similar to 30-30 Win an the terminal ballistics of...well...7.62x39.  It certainly doesn't shoot as flat as 5.56, and 300m is pretty much the limit of the cartridge.  And the weight of the ammo is a beotch.  I'm issued an AK here at work and I carry 8 mags on the vest.  With the ammo and the weight of the mags, it's probably the equivalent to 15 M-4 mags.  I haven't checked that on a scale though.

As far as Infidel-6s ergonomic complaints, this is one place where it sucks to be right handed.  I'm left eye dominant and consequently shoot rifles left handed.  And AK is a breeze to work left handed.  Just leave the left hand on the pistol grip and work everything with the right hand.  Give me an FAL though and I'll curse you to the grave for just the opposite reason.  If Mikhail Kalashnikov had been a tactical shooter, he would have put all the controls on the left side of the rifle.  But he didn't  so I guess for the vast majority of shooters it is an ergonomic nightmare.  Some updated versions have solved some problems.  The Zastava M-21 series for instance, use a safety similar to the Galil's which is placed conventionally above the pistol grip and certainly an improvement.  The lack of hold open device remains a sore spot with me and many others.  I certainly which it had one.  One field expedient for that is to use Chinese magazine followers with a flat back on them and then mill out the 2 "nibs" (technical term, that) which limit the top of the follower's travel.  This creates a poor man's hold open device, but the bolt will go forward when the empty mag is removed from the weapon.

It is also important to note that not all AKs are created equal.  Russians are decent.  Yugo's are good as long as you get a fixed stock version and not the underfolders.  All underfolding stocks are pretty much crap.  They don't let you get a proper sight picture without awkwardly canting your head to line up with the sights.  And they have a lot of slop making a proper repeatable fire position pretty much impossible to achieve.  If you have to have a folder, the East German and Romanian wire stock side folders are decent.  They don't appear all that rigid, but they lock up tight and are easily as stiff as a fixed stock.  But they can beat your cheeks up on recoil.  Not much there to have a good cheek weld with.  As well these stocks have about the same length of pull as a C7A2 stock one notch out from fully collapsed.  If you're not careful or have a tendency to postion your hear forward on the stock you will take the hinge in the upper lip or the nose.  The Russian triangular or composite side folders are the best, offering more surface area to pad the soft parts of the face and a longer length of pull.  I believe there is a Chinese version of this as well. 

 I guess pretty much any European manufactured AK is pretty much good to go, with East German being the the highest quality that I've seen here.  However you need to be careful about the 3rd world made ones.  The domestic Iraqi AKs are all outwardly identical to the Yugo ones with the rifle grenade sight and all.  But they are not near the quality.  They still work though, sometimes.

They aren't perfect, and they certainly aren't as nice to shoot as western designed rifles, but they take a licking and keep on ticking.  And they achieve minute of person accuracy, which was all the Soviet's were looking for when they designed the thing.

On a final note, I think that with his new moniker, Infidel-6 should start referring to himself in the third person. :dontpanic:


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## KevinB (5 Jun 2006)

I will conceed a few points to Teddy.

 1.) ALL of our AK's are Russia.  However most are not new -- the newest is a 1998 AKMS - but we have some 50's marked AK-47's.  

 2.) All where bought "on the economy" so needless to say when the local Afghani goes to sell a gun - he does not sell his best stock.

 3.) I'm right handed with over 16 years of experience on the M16FOV.























Not sure if it is an Iraqi trait as well but the Afghan's seem to like using them w/o a buttstock -- hence why they fail basic marksmanship 101 - and usually dont get another shot at the PWT


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## 1feral1 (5 Jun 2006)

Law & Order said:
			
		

> I was under the impression the AK took 7.63 not 7.62 rounds.  They can use our rounds in their weapons, but we can't use theirs.



URBAN MYTH BUSTED:

Sorry dude No interchangability at all. Theirs in theirs only, and ours in ours only. No if ands or buts, PERIOD! Anyone tells you otherwise, they are full of shyte, and are nothing but LIARS and rumour mongers or at least don't know WTF they are talking about.

End of story.

Wes

PS

Hey Kevin - great pics! What yr of manufacture on those AKMs? They look beaten as hell, but I must confess some of the stuff we have captured out of Iraq, although only a few yrs old some of it, are completly wear torn and mis matched, even AK47 body covers on AKMs and AK47 gas tubes on AKM's and chrone AK-47 oprods too on AKM's. Rarely a matching rifle. Lots of Chi-Com Type-56-1's, Russian AK variants (including the earliest AK47 model with machined recievers and early pistol grip and wooden butt as only seen in books), Romanian AKMs , Polish AKMs, Yugoslavian AKM's, and the rest of it (of course including the AKM-S folders too).


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## teddy49 (5 Jun 2006)

Wow!!!  Is that the cream of the Crop?  I just bought an East German Fixed stock from one of my guards that was still in the cosmoline.  And he had 6 more.  I've picked up another East German Side Folder that probably has 90% finish on it.  My issued work AK is the worst of the bunch having only about 70% finish.

Here's one of my guards wearing my body armour and holding my issued rifle





And unfortunately removing the buttstock is an Iraqi trait as well.  We've managed to cure our guards of it, at least with the weapons we have here.  I don't know what their personal ones are like.  Even stocks don't seem to help them much on the range.  But once you've seen some of the crap their local instructors tell them, you understand why they can't shoot worth beans.  It's a long hard road trying to get them to unlearn that stuff.

And FWIW, I'm sure it's posted here before, but AK's shoot 7.62x39mm and the NATO cartridge is 7.62x51mm.  So like Wes and Kevin said, there is no interoperability at all.


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## MG34 (5 Jun 2006)

To add what the others who have actually picked a real AK up and fired it more than once or twice,the AK has some of the worst ergonomics going,poor cheek weld,piss poor designed cocking handle and mag release,and the fact that it spits gas into your face when you actually bother to take up a sight picture. The AK is just junk regardless of what "Tour of Duty" or Chuck Norris may state.


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## teddy49 (5 Jun 2006)

MG34 said:
			
		

> To add what the others who have actually picked a real AK up and fired it more than once or twice,the AK has some of the worst ergonomics going,poor cheek weld,piss poor designed cocking handle and mag release,and the fact that it spits gas into your face when you actually bother to take up a sight picture. The AK is just junk regardless of what "Tour of Duty" or Chuck Norris may state.



Uhm...OK.  If you're a right handed shooter I'll concede the bulk of the ergonomic difficulties.  The safety sucks arse.  The cocking handle is in a poor position for the right handed shooter.  But misery loves company, you can find this feature on the SIG 54X and 55X series, the FNC, AR-18, Beretta AR-70, Daewoo K-1 and K-2, M-14 and derivatives, Valmet's and Galil's (which are AK's anyway) and even the brand new FN SCAR, though to be fair on this it is reversable.  In fact I think the the FAL remains the only commonly issued modern rifle with the cocking handle in the correct location for right handed shooters.  The HK G-3, HK53, MP-5 series have it located to far forward IMHO, though given the short length of an MP-5 it's not really an issue on that weapon.

As for the mag release, well the paddle type mag release is found on virtually every western military rifle that doesn't use AR-15/STANAG compatible magazines.  Including rifles as newly designed as the G-36 and the abortive XM-8 project.  Notwithstanding that those rifles are crap.
Also the FAL, SIG 55X series are in this club.  I don't really think of this as a major handicap, if you structure your mag change drills accordingly.  But then again I shoot rifles left handed so the AR-15/C-7 system isn't as quick for me as it is for a right handed firer.

If when you're talking about cheekweld, you're referring to the underfolder stocks I'll agree with you 120%, but if you're talking about the regular fixed stocks or the side folding stocks I've never had an issued with proper cheek weld.  Now I'm only 5'7" so if you're taller, I guess you could have length of pull issues which may compromise a proper cheek weld.

I've never had an AK blow gas into my face, so perhaps the ones you've fired have issues.  Also if the bulk of your experience is with Yugo AKs, they don't have vent holes in the gas tube, like most of the others, so that is sure to result in more gas at the back of the rifle.  But this issue would be unique to these rifles and their derivatives like the Iraqi Tabuk.  Also it appears that some of the Bulgarian rifles don't have vent holes as well.

I don't mean to sound like an AK apologist.  Believe me there are a number of rifles I'd rather be carrying, M-4 or SIG 55X series among them.  I'm only trying to give a fair assessment of the rifle, both positive and negative based on my experience with them, which I think is more extensive than most, but by no means all, people on this forum.  Calling it junk, I think, is unfair.  It's the peasants rifle for sure, and as such it is peasant-proof.  But it is a rifle that can usually be counted on to work.  Look at the pics from Kevin's post.  He didn't say that those rifles didn't work, just that they were in bad shape.  Even if they had to make 15 rifles out of every 20 that they bought, I'd like to see somebody do the same with some Viet Nam era M-16s that had been through what those had.

It's not perfect.  It's not indestructible.  It's not even that nice to shoot, but it works.  And I think that's what counts.


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## Enzo (5 Jun 2006)

Teddy, I think that's the first time I've noticed an after market sight (what's that, an EOTech?) such as you have on an AK. Nice mod.

Cheers...


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## teddy49 (6 Jun 2006)

Enzo said:
			
		

> Teddy, I think that's the first time I've noticed an after market sight (what's that, an EOTech?) such as you have on an AK. Nice mod.
> 
> Cheers...



Thanks, yeah, it's an EO Tech (not sure which number) on an Ultimak Rail, which replaces the gas tube and clamps to the barrel.  Works pretty well, though it's a little high.


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## SteveB (6 Jun 2006)

Infidel and Teddy, you two would be the best to answer this.  I thought the AK-74 replaced the AKM quite some time ago.  Seems like you guys are still dealing with AKMs why is that? I hoped that you could at least have the pick of the locally available weapons.  Are 74s just that much less common than the 47/AKM or is the 5.45 ammo too rare?  I would guess that it would at least solve some of the wound leathality/weight problems 7.62x39 has.  All that said, I am thoroughly ignorant, never having even handled a 74 derivative myself.  

Seems like the ones Kev originally had in Afgan were some kind of restoration hobby.  It's lucky that 90% of the outcome is due to operator skill as opposed to weapon type. 

At least this thread finally turned interesting.

Steve


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## Big Red (6 Jun 2006)

I've yet to see any of the 5.45 Soviet weapons in Iraq.  Iraq was producing its own 7.62x39 weapons in some quantity and never adopted 5.45.  I'm sure there's some kicking around from Uday's collections, but none were issued AFAIK.


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## KevinB (6 Jun 2006)

5.45's are very rare in Afghan as well -- the ANA use AKM's and Bulgarian AKMS versions.
The ONLY 5.45's I have found are the AKSU-74's (Krinkov's) 

WRT Wounding -- the 5.45 behaves near identical to the M44 7.62x39mm round.


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## 1feral1 (6 Jun 2006)

Big Red said:
			
		

> I've yet to see any of the 5.45 Soviet weapons in Iraq.  Iraq was producing its own 7.62x39 weapons in some quantity and never adopted 5.45.  I'm sure there's some kicking around from Uday's collections, but none were issued AFAIK.



Iraq has never produced an AK, ya RPGs for sure, but no AKs. Many with Iraqi markings (safety catch and nomenclature) are Yugoslavian contracts, and the same goes with the bayonets.

Cheers,

Wes


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## KevinB (6 Jun 2006)

Tabuk (Sp??) made in Iraq AK

Some of them (and BRAND NEW Iranian AKM's) are floating in Afghanistan.

One of our guys with his pimp-47


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## teddy49 (7 Jun 2006)

I never thought I'd get to say this, but Wes, you're out of your lane.   LOL

The Yugo's set up up the plant in Tabuk.  And the rifles appear identical to Yugo versions.  Except that when you handle one you'll know that it wasn't made by Zastava, unless they were selling Saddam factory seconds.  LOL.  A Tabuk is like a Yugo M70s retarded brother and are generally pretty horrible as far as fit and finish go.  But they still work, sometimes.  But they are stamped Tabuk, usually on the right side of the rear sight block.  I don't have any pics comparing the two, we do have some genuine Yugo's here, but if you were to handle both side by side, you'd have no problem telling one from the other.  I'll see if I can scam a camera, and get some decent proper pics, showing the difference.


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## TCBF (7 Jun 2006)

"The ONLY 5.45's I have found are the AKSU-74's (Krinkov's) "

- In March 2002, the local Afghan 'Commander' was given a tour of my Coyote at the SW OP at KAF.  While our 'Trunk Monkey' was showing him the surv gear in the back, his bodyguards were checking us out abnd we were checking them out.  IIRC, they had normal stocked AK-74's, and they were the only 74's of any variant I saw there  during my tour.


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## Enzo (7 Jun 2006)

> One of our guys with his pimp-47



Those Aussies and their crazy notions eh  ;D


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## 1feral1 (7 Jun 2006)

teddy49 said:
			
		

> I never thought I'd get to say this, but Wes, you're out of your lane.   LOL
> 
> The Yugo's set up up the plant in Tabuk.  And the rifles appear identical to Yugo versions.  Except that when you handle one you'll know that it wasn't made by Zastava, unless they were selling Saddam factory seconds.  LOL.  A Tabuk is like a Yugo M70s retarded brother and are generally pretty horrible as far as fit and finish go.  But they still work, sometimes.  But they are stamped Tabuk, usually on the right side of the rear sight block.  I don't have any pics comparing the two, we do have some genuine Yugo's here, but if you were to handle both side by side, you'd have no problem telling one from the other.  I'll see if I can scam a camera, and get some decent proper pics, showing the difference.



Well there ya go, I stand corrected. I have heard of the Tabuk rifle as its listed in the ADF Iraqi deployment book I have. I was under the impression that it and the bayonet were contracted to Zastava. I have also seen and handled the RPK version personally, and the basic characteristics of the Yugo pistol grip and butt stock with rubber recoil pad, the unique front sight assembly (night sight that folds up), etc, plus the wood even was the same. All arabic characters on everything. It had  real nice shrapanel damage to the butt. I'll do some googleing to further educate myself.

I also had a play on the Al Nisira ( spelling?), the local made RPG-7. it appeared more robust than its Russian cousin, black plastic, and characacters in english on one side, arabic on the other. A bit more cruder welding too, but quite a good copy. Typcial 40mm, all ammo interchangable with the Russian and Ch-Com and other Com-Bloc natures.

Cheers and beers,

Wes


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## SoF (13 Jun 2006)

I found this neat little conversion kit for a Ruger 10/22; makes it looks like a AKS-74U. It's also non-restricted!!! As I don't want to advertise just pm me if you want to know where to buy one of these badboys. The before and after pics may remind you of a weight loss commercial but they are true to the best of my knowledge.

BEFORE






AFTER


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## Enzo (13 Jun 2006)

Anyone care to go plinkin' in the woods?  ;D


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## Popurhedoff (18 Jun 2012)

I personnely like the AK-47,  I use one every day here in Afghanistan,  in vehicles i like my M70 AB3 Zavasta with under folder stock, and I like my wooden stock AK-47 as well for everything else.

These guns are so simple that a caveman can use it... or at least a man in a cave can... oh... they do.  it is a very robust weapon that requires little maintenance and cleaning. I like them basiclly stock without optics, without all the gizmo's and LCF kit.  For short to medium ranges it does it job well, if it falls over, no big deal.

I use 3 different methods of cocking the action:

When on target and a stoppage occurs, a quick racking with the right hand is the fastest method, making sure the weapon is in control, sights on target and firmly into my sholder;

the other two methods are for when the rifle is not on target, and/or moving;

Cant/rotate weapon to left, using left hand over the top of the AK, smack/strike the action rearward with base of the hand;

Cant/rotate weapon to the right, using left hand under the bottom of the AK, smack/strick the action rearward with base of thumb. 

Three different drills that I practice regularly to where they all seem fast, smooth and natural.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Cheers
Pop


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## Pte. Jay (4 Oct 2012)

I love reading 9 year old posts such as these and just seeing peoples opinions over the years and thinking about whether or not the author still visits this site... But it's simple. The Ak-47 virtually can not fail... I've seen videos of people putting them in the ground for days on end then taking them out and firing them... They do not fail...


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## Container (4 Oct 2012)

how does burying a gun and then digging it up prove they wont fail?


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## Pte. Jay (4 Oct 2012)

Container said:
			
		

> how does burying a gun and then digging it up prove they wont fail?


Because dirt can get into the action and the slide and all of the parts and clog them, but the nature of the design is such that that wouldn't be a problem with the AK-47 (to a certain extent of course)


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## Dissident (4 Oct 2012)

I just love the thought of Pte Jay coming back in a few years and realizing how poorly he comes across in his posts.


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## Pte. Jay (4 Oct 2012)

Lol? How so? I'm not an Army.ca vet


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Oct 2012)

Pte. Jay said:
			
		

> Lol? How so? I'm not an Army.ca vet



Nor will you be if you don't stop with the posting style you're using.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Pte. Jay (4 Oct 2012)

Guys, I am extremely sorry if I came across as a douchey kid.


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## 57Chevy (4 Oct 2012)

Pte. Jay said:
			
		

> The Ak-47 virtually can not fail...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lZ_46BSVwY




			
				Pte. Jay said:
			
		

> They do not fail...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj9TB4t-VGM


Now you know they do fail.


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## Journeyman (4 Oct 2012)

NinerSix said:
			
		

> I just love the thought of Pte Jay coming back in a few years....


"Coming back" implies that he's going to go away, right?    Soon?


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## Pte. Jay (4 Oct 2012)

Jeez guys  I'm extremely sorry for my ignorance  I'll try to be more literal from now on.


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## KevinB (4 Oct 2012)

They can fail...


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## 57Chevy (4 Oct 2012)

OK  KevinB  
Lets hear the story(ies) behind the photo.   

Always loved that color of gun tape.


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## AmmoTech90 (4 Oct 2012)

That ain't gun tape.

Its the stuff I've taken to calling Jingle Truck Tape because it's shiny, crappy, and used to fix stuff.  I guess its the same as the tape you used to bling up your 10 speed's handle bars...


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## 57Chevy (4 Oct 2012)

AmmoTech90 said:
			
		

> That ain't gun tape.



I know  :

And I know it's crap too.


I certainly would never use it on my handle bars,
maybe not even for fixing things.


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## KevinB (4 Oct 2012)

#1 rule for morons is ensure you take off the stock...

I have no idea what inspires half the folks to do the Islamabad Bling to their guns - most the Ak's in theatre (Iraq or Afghan) shoot about minute of barn door - as corrosive ammo was fired thru them and left - so the barrels corroded, pitted and the guns themselves often rust shut.

Shoot an Ak one week and leave it, do the same to a M16FOW and see what happens


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## Robert0288 (5 Oct 2012)

I'm sure the same thing will happen if you decide to stick corrosive ammo in your M16.  I had my SKS start rusting up on me within 3 hours of shooting it at the range.


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## KevinB (5 Oct 2012)

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> I'm sure the same thing will happen if you decide to stick corrosive ammo in your M16.  I had my SKS start rusting up on me within 3 hours of shooting it at the range.


Well I've yet to see anyone loading 5.56mm corrosive ammo


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## Popurhedoff (5 Oct 2012)

Depending on what your employers supply, it may only be an AK-47 and not a M4.  With any tool, it is up to you to learn how to use it effectively, learn is capabilities, learn it weaknesses.  There are pro's and con's to everything, as far as I am concerned, it is not sexy, it is not light, but it is forgiving and effective and I have no issues with it.

There are selectors with a tab on the lower side that allows the user to select without taking the hand off of the pistol grip. It is not a M4, so learn to work with it so that you can perform your drills as fast as with an M4.  I have no issues if I have to take my hand off of the pistol grip, my other hand is still pushing it into my shoulder and it is still on target.

AK-47 fails,  yes they can have them, but from my experience I would say that something catastrophic or years of neglect or both.  Try doing that with a M4, a bit of neglect and dirt and whoopsies.  I have seen many in very bad condition, haven't been cleaned in years if not decades and used a lot of corrosive ammo but it still worked.  After a few hours of TLC, a lot of chemicals and it came out not to shabby.

For 0-300 yds, I like the stopping power of the AK-47, 123-125gr bullet at 800m/s does a good deal of damage to the tissue and bone.  For accuracy, I like the M4 but we cant have everything in one package.  Over here, I prefer the Ak-47,  I am in the city and just about every contact would be 0-200 yds,  well within the effective range of its capabilities.

Cheap, easy to use, and effective... its no wonder that it has kiiled more people than any other weapons system.


AK-47 with Aimpoint







AK-47 with L3 EoTech






Pop in the suck


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## KevinB (5 Oct 2012)

Damn dude -- your looking old these days   ;D


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## Popurhedoff (5 Oct 2012)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Damn dude -- your looking old these days   ;D



Funny Kevin,  I thought the same about you when I saw you on the program  "Ultimate Weapons" 3 nights in a row... lots of KevinB reruns.  But then again I am in my mid-50's :-D

Cheers
Pop


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## KevinB (5 Oct 2012)

Actually I was thinking damn you look like you dropped 20 years - but I did not want to admit that I just look really old and fat these days.


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## Popurhedoff (5 Oct 2012)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Actually I was thinking damn you look like you dropped 20 years - but I did not want to admit that I just look really old and fat these days.



Thanks KevB,  I beleive that all your years in Iraq may have something to do with it, those were definately stressfull times to say the least.  Funny though, I have seen you more on TV over here than back in Canada...it seems like your the star of Haji TV.  I am so glad your doing great, you deserve it mate, your hard work has paid off.

I am still a bit regimented, up at 0500hrs, hit the gym at 0530, and then start the day.  I think I am in better shape now than when I was in the Mil.  I still find it hard to beleive that I completed 32 years of service.  I am picking up some new Ak's today and was hoping that I could pick them myself out of the MOI armoury but that isn't going to happen.  My current issue was made in 74, but works like a dream.

Keep in touch and grats on the new family 

Cheers
Pop


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## Journeyman (6 Oct 2012)

Popurhedoff said:
			
		

> ....KevB,  I believe that all your years in Iraq....


I figure the whole "fatherhood" thing is aging him.  

[/tangent]


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## KevinB (7 Oct 2012)

lol -- I think Journeyman is right.

A little less than impressed about my career as a haji TV start though, I guess as long as its not followed up by a wanted dead or alive add its not too bad.


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## Popurhedoff (16 Oct 2012)

I was in the Ministry of Interior (Afghanistan) today to trade out 3 of our "Frankenguns" similiar as to what KevinB posted pictures of when I was escorted to their armoury to hand select the replacements. I went through approx. 25 AK's before I found this gem.  It is a 1953 Russian AK-47 Type 2, it was under a plie of guns. I disassembled each one to inspect them and I discovered that this one had a milled receiver, chrome lined barrel and piston group.  The exterior finish was worn off but the insides were in excellent condition, bore excellent, selector smooth and light with positive locking at each selection.  The action was smooth and the trigger was light, smooth and consistant, better than any M4 I have tried.

This was a nice find for me, I like the balance of this model, 59 years old and solid and tight, no rattles, wood is beat but that can be easily replaced.  While I was cleaning it, i noticed a slight rattle in the stock, I took off the butt plate and found a 7.62x39mm live round in the stock where the oil bottle goes. The round was full of cosmoline and dirt, and you could not even see the primer, I thought that this was a dummy round at first but after cleaning it up, the headstamp was '63... I bet that has been in there for a long time.

I traded out the forestock, pistol grip and dust cover and I will take it to the range next week. If it fires half as good as it is inside then that will be my daily keeper.  This model feels better than most I have used.











Cheers
Pop


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## Dissident (16 Oct 2012)

Wow. Nice find.


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## jollyjacktar (20 Oct 2012)

Interesting story about Syrian government salting AK rounds with HE to cause injury to insurgents.  Apparently has been practice for the US as well and other groups over the years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/20/world/middleeast/syrian-government-booby-traps-rebels-ammunition.html?_r=0

NY Times video about the practice and it's history.  http://nyti.ms/TFzbL7


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## shadownet (3 Nov 2012)

In an environment like Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd rather have an AK with me than an M4 or C7. No offense, but I prefer reliability over tech. And sure, it's range is dirt, but most firefights happen inside the AK's deadly range anyways, especially Iraq.

The AK-74 has a longer range than the AK-47 or AKM, and the bullet is supposedly to have a longer tumbling effect than the 5.56mm, but hey, whatever the CF gives me, I'll use it to its fullest and take good care of it, may it be a C7A2, C8, C9, or even a TAC-50.


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## Popurhedoff (3 Nov 2012)

I was at Camp Alamo yesterday and had a chance to talk with a lot of the Canadian troops, the single most asked question to me was "Why do I like the AK?"  This type 2 has a milled receiver, chrome lined barrel and piston. After I cleared the weapon, I asked them to try the action and the trigger, they were all amazed how nice and smooth it was, and I showed them how fast the IA and stoppage drills were, how fast you can rack the action without losing your site picture, or taking it away from the shoulder.

I told them that I could go months/years without cleaning (even though I won’t), throw dirt in it, bang it around... if I need to clean it in a austere place, I can use diesel fuel for cleaning and lubrication or urinate on/in it in an emergency.  I disassembled the major parts in under 6 seconds without trying for speed, and then reassembled it for them as a familiarization.  It is a battle rifle albeit with limitations, know and work with them, and as the poster above said, this is the weapon I prefer here, same for me.

As with any weapon, take care of it and it will take care of you.






Cheers
Pop


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## MikeL (3 Nov 2012)

shadownet said:
			
		

> In an environment like Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd rather have an AK with me than an M4 or C7. No offense, but I prefer reliability over tech. And sure, it's range is dirt, but most firefights happen inside the AK's deadly range anyways, especially Iraq.




What experience are you basing this off of?  Have you been in Iraq or Afghanistan? Researched the typical engagement ranges in each province?, etc   Fired the C7 and AK47 enough times to have a opinion on them?







			
				shadownet said:
			
		

> but hey, whatever the CF gives me, I'll use it to its fullest and take good care of it, may it be a C7A2, C8, C9, or even a TAC-50.



If you get into the Reserves,  expect to only see the C6, C7A2 and C9..   no sniper weapon systems,  they also aren't weapons that are just handed out  to anyone.


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Nov 2012)

shadownet said:
			
		

> In an environment like Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd rather have an AK with me than an M4 or C7. No offense, but I prefer reliability over tech. And sure, it's range is dirt, but most firefights happen inside the AK's deadly range anyways, especially Iraq.
> 
> The AK-74 has a longer range than the AK-47 or AKM, and the bullet is supposedly to have a longer tumbling effect  than the 5.56mm, but hey, whatever the CF gives me, I'll use it to its fullest and take good care of it, may it be a C7A2, C8, C9, or even a TAC-50.



Can you please explain to me what a longer tumbling effect is?


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## Jarnhamar (3 Nov 2012)

shadownet said:
			
		

> The AK-74 has a longer range than the AK-47 or AKM, and the bullet is supposedly to have a longer tumbling effect than the 5.56mm, but hey, whatever the CF gives me, I'll use it to its fullest and take good care of it, may it be a C7A2, C8, C9, or even a TAC-50.



Or you could just swap out weapons that dead enemies drop.  Run over their bodies and collect their ammo too. 





			
				Popurhedoff said:
			
		

> I was at Camp Alamo yesterday and had a chance to talk with a lot of the Canadian troops



The next time you see a guy with a flashlight hanging off his uniform like this could you gently take it off his shirt and put it in his pocket?

Also, we should talk about the viability of a certain someone mailing a certain someone else a (perhaps mythical) semi-automatic only AK74/47?


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## shadownet (3 Nov 2012)

Can I ask how certain people manage to obtain automatic AKs? I thought those were under the Restricted Firearms section of Canad'as Firearms Policies?


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## Illegio (3 Nov 2012)

shadownet said:
			
		

> In an environment like Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd rather have an AK with me than an M4 or C7. No offense, but I prefer reliability over tech. And sure, it's range is dirt, but most firefights happen inside the AK's deadly range anyways, especially Iraq.
> 
> The AK-74 has a longer range than the AK-47 or AKM, and the bullet is supposedly to have a longer tumbling effect than the 5.56mm, but hey, whatever the CF gives me, I'll use it to its fullest and take good care of it, may it be a C7A2, C8, C9, or even a TAC-50.



I'm not going to touch the other stuff, but I'm curious what you mean by a "longer tumbling effect than the 5.56mm." Most modern "spitzer" rifle bullets tumble when they strike soft tissue, but the 5.56mm is somewhat unique in that in its SS109/M855 analogues, it reliably fragments in soft tissue at velocities above ~2,500 fps, the so-called "Fackler velocity." The 5.45mm does not, however, reliably fragment at any velocity. The "tumbling effect," or a bullet's tendency to yaw when it strikes soft tissue, is a result of a spitzer-type bullet's physical characteristics, not unique to any one rifle or particular cartridge.











And yes - AKs and anything based on the AK action are classified as Prohibited Weapons by Order in Council. So anyone holding an AK in Canada without a Prohibited PAL is doing so illegally.


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## brihard (3 Nov 2012)

shadownet said:
			
		

> Can I ask how certain people manage to obtain automatic AKs? I thought those were under the Restricted Firearms section of Canad'as Firearms Policies?



Short answer, usually illegally.

Long answer, there are in extremely rare instances people who are able to get prohibited weapons licenses that allow them to acquire fully automatic weapons. 

Popurhedoff, currently being in a third world shithole, is in a position to not have to worry about being subject to Canadian firearms laws.


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## Dissident (3 Nov 2012)

shadownet said:
			
		

> Can I ask how certain people manage to obtain automatic AKs? I thought those were under the Restricted Firearms section of Canad'as Firearms Policies?



Almost all AK-47 and variants are classified prohibited. 

Popurhedoff and KB work/ed outside of Canada and had to use other weapon systems while so employed.

Now do more reading and less posting before we really lose patience.


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## Danjanou (3 Nov 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> What experience are you basing this off of?  Have you been in Iraq or Afghanistan? Researched the typical engagement ranges in each province?, etc   Fired the C7 and AK47 enough times to have a opinion on them?



C'mon he's played COD 4 like a gazillion times now . That makes him more or a SME than anyone else on here.


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## Jarnhamar (3 Nov 2012)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> C'mon he's played COD 4 like a gazillion times now . That makes him more or a SME than anyone else on here.



If you think pro-life / pro-choice debates are venomous you haven't seen anything until you listen to a  modern warfare vs COD battle  ;D


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## Popurhedoff (4 Nov 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> The next time you see a guy with a flashlight hanging off his uniform like this could you gently take it off his shirt and put it in his pocket?



Naw, I am a flat faced civie now, no need for me to be inforcing the dress code  ;D



> Also, we should talk about the viability of a certain someone mailing a certain someone else a (perhaps mythical) semi-automatic only AK74/47?



No can do on that, as much as I would love to have one back home, I am still a law biding citizen.   

Cheers
Pop


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## SOES_vet (4 Nov 2012)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> If you think pro-life / pro-choice debates are venomous you haven't seen anything until you listen to a  modern warfare vs COD battle  ;D



This made me LOL

el oh el


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## my72jeep (4 Nov 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Popurhedoff, currently being in a third world *******, is in a position to not have to worry about being subject to Canadian firearms laws.


Now now not all **** holes are in the third world, have you ever been to Winnipeg?


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## GAP (4 Nov 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Now now not all **** holes are in the third world, have you ever been to Winnipeg?



Excuse me?


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## my72jeep (4 Nov 2012)

GAP said:
			
		

> Excuse me?




OK just the Logan rail yard area.


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## GAP (4 Nov 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> OK just the Logan rail yard area.



true


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## Danjanou (4 Nov 2012)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Now now not all **** holes are in the third world, have you ever been to Winnipeg?



Parts of TO qualify too from my experience. On the upside probably could score a Kalash there off a local gang banger. 8)


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## Colin Parkinson (5 Nov 2012)

The AK family is prohibited under law, however some of us folks are lucky enough to be grandfathered under Sec. 12(5). So I can own a AK if I so desired, but have enough safe queens. However if any good soul wishes to part with their legal AK for $200  or less I will happily oblige them.


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## Kat Stevens (5 Nov 2012)

Slightly tangential, but my local corner store/ first stop when the zombies come/ rifle vendor has an AKS for sale, new barrel, bayonet looks to be in primo condition, for $245.  Should I snap it up? how readily available is 7.62 x 39 ammo, and how costly would it be?  Cuz if I'm buying it, bet your belly button I'm gonna want to put some lead through it.


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## Eaglelord17 (5 Nov 2012)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Slightly tangential, but my local corner store/ first stop when the zombies come/ rifle vendor has an AKS for sale, new barrel, bayonet looks to be in primo condition, for $245.  Should I snap it up? how readily available is 7.62 x 39 ammo, and how costly would it be?  Cuz if I'm buying it, bet your belly button I'm gonna want to put some lead through it.


You can buy a crate of 7.62x39 (about 1440 rounds) for about 300$ a crate in Canada (mind you that is old soviet/bloc countries ammo and it is corrosive so proper cleaning steps must be followed).


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## Kat Stevens (5 Nov 2012)

Hmmmm, never mind, seems Marstar will sell me a brand new condition still in the grease SKS for $75 if I buy a case of ammo from them....  Debating whether to pull the trigger, as it were.


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## Fishbone Jones (5 Nov 2012)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Hmmmm, never mind, seems Marstar will sell me a brand new condition still in the grease SKS for $75 if I buy a case of ammo from them....  Debating whether to pull the trigger, as it were.



Sks' are good solid guns and a lot of fun for the price.


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## dangerboy (5 Nov 2012)

Go for it.   Like recceguy said they are fun to shoot, plus they take a lot of abuse so if you fire the lousy warsaw ammo and don't do regular cleaning they still fire fine.


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## Jarnhamar (5 Nov 2012)

Perkins Gas station in Pembroke has SKS's for $239


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## Kat Stevens (5 Nov 2012)

Just picked it up, still in the grease, Russian made, matching numbers. Came with the original oil bottle, tool kit, sling, 3 stripper clips and two ammo pouches. Grabbed 100 rds of ammo and a trigger lock all for $275.  Ammo worked out to $.20/rd, not too shabby.


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## Fishbone Jones (5 Nov 2012)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Just picked it up, still in the grease, Russian made, matching numbers. Came with the original oil bottle, tool kit, sling, 3 stripper clips and two ammo pouches. Grabbed 100 rds of ammo and a trigger lock all for $275.  Ammo worked out to $.20/rd, not too shabby.



If you use corrosive surplus stuff, it helps to clean it with something ammonia based, like Windex. Helps to neutralize the corrosive salts that'll turn your bore blue.


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## Popurhedoff (5 Feb 2013)

I decided to spruce up the old girl, she turned 60 this year...my daily shooter is a 1953 Type 2 AK-47.  Steel milled receiver, chrome piston group and chrome lined barrel. It has a great trigger and works great but the finish is almost completely worn off.  So today I decided to spruce her up a bit.  I disassembled, cleaned, ran under extremely hot water to heat it up, dried it off, and applied "Kleenbore" Cold Blueing, and wiped her down with Militech-1.

*Before* picture: not the original dust cover, it gave off too much refelected light so I threw on a newer one until I got the original refinished.








*After* picture: with orginal matching serial number dust cover.






Total time to clean, disassemble, heat, cold blue, oil and re assemble was approx. 40 minutes.  A tip I learned a long time ago when cold blueing was to heat the parts with Hot water and the blueing comes out more even.

Next I will refurbish the stock, I am not sure which way I will go on it?  maybe sand and paint with black rock guard or sand and use a dark wood oil... I haven't decided yet, but then again it will depend on what I find around here in Kabul.  40 minute effort, now the locals want their old AK's done... time to get some more supplies.

Cheers
Pop


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## Journeyman (6 Feb 2013)

Very nice looking refurb. Thanks for sharing.


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## Popurhedoff (8 Feb 2013)

I spent the afternoon refurbuishing more AK's,  two more completed... missed a few spots.  Chemical cold blueing does make the old girls look a lot better.  The Afghan guards are strutting around proud as new Fathers now.

I will keep refurbishing a couple every friday until all of them are done here.  It gives me a chance to really look them over, repair if neccessary and give it a good cleaning.












Cheers
Pop


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