# ROTP recruit, An introduction



## pretentious (26 Jan 2013)

Hello,
My name is Lyle and I am a recruit from Hamilton, Ontario.

Too Long Didn't Read?:
I am an ROTP applicant. RMC reviewed my application to itself and determined, "[I am] certainly suitable to make an application to the Canadian Forces". - What does this mean, exactly? RMC is not interested but CF is? Am I a recruit? I write the aptitude on Feb. 5th. Advice or comments? 

Figured I should post introducing myself, perhaps meet a few people I could be recruited with. I am a 23 year old male, I finished Highschool with a 75% average and then hastily attended the only school that had accepted me for Bachelor of Computer Science at the time, Carleton. I quickly discovered that Computer Science, rather the tedious desk work (code writing) that I would be getting into, was not my ideal profession. Mistake made on my part by not returning and switching programs to physics/chemistry science, but I then returned to college the following academic year for Law & Security at Mohawk. Upon graduating, I have worked security for Paladin Security Group for over a year within a mental inpatient healthcare setting and ambulatory/clinic service setting. Before working security, I worked retail at Canadian Tire since before I was 16. This sums up my professional life, and my life doesn't really go beyond that aside from mandatory community service hours required for school. I am not an athlete, unfortunately. While in college I exercised heavily, also trained in Muay Thai under Kru Samir Seif, near the end of the 2 year college program I was exercising over 5 times a week 2 hours a day in preparation of my first amateur Muay Thai bout. A bout in which I lost half way through the second round by way of T.K.O. - while my resume is not as impressive as others, I do have passion that needs only to be lit. Lit by a lifestyle that the Forces can grant me.

I am an amateur scientist, mathematician, philosopher. While I fully understood the intricate thought processes and abstract mathematical concepts that are needed in order to program in an object oriented style, there are many reasons as to why I did not complete my University degree but the prime example is my human error. I am not someone who likes to smoke cigarettes, nor drink alcohol and yet somehow I managed. I enjoy educational television, unbiased news, and am striving to get involved politically one day. The internet is a revolutionizing medium, one that could potentially allow for direct democracy - instant nationwide referendums... Why tax virtual money? The "king" doesn't need to collect physical currency anymore, if a roads needs to be built - build it, a school erected - do so.. create the fiat, damn the expense!... My life is not what is should be, not as I had planned when I was young. I attempt that this passage is not emotional, everyone has their stories. However I wish to me a member of the Forces because I want a honorable job that is worth doing, and my life mistakes should not really matter, right? Canadian ideals lead our people to conflicts because we genuinely believe we are creating a better world, right? I could talk openly indefinitely - private messages are encouraged. 

I have always had a desire to join and an admiration for the Canadian Forces. I applied to the ROTP program because I had applied to the reserves but was instructed by my kind recruiter that I should apply to the ROTP (assuming she was looking at my transcripts). So I applied and my RMC application was reviewed and determined "[I am] certainly suitable to make an application to the Canadian Forces" - I am confused, but I still will follow through with application process. I had applied as i. pilot, ii. Intel officer, iii. legal officer and I know that these professions are not in demand except the first - Being a pilot is a dream, like many other people, and really the only profession that should be on that list. I want a career first and foremost, while I may not be adequate for their standards of pilot I really hope I am accepted to the ROTP for a different profession. - Is this list I applied as very strict? An aviation career is desired, will I be rejected from ROTP if they find me unfit for piloting or perhaps concider me for another profession?


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## JorgSlice (26 Jan 2013)

You're not in yet, thus you're an Applicant, not a recruit.

Sounds like you picked a very suitable username to reflect yourself. Let me tell you one thing, nobody cares about your life story. You want to join the CF? Submit your application and see where it takes you. If they determine you're not suitable to be a pilot, they'll file you into one of your other choices however (I MAY NOT BE CORRECT) Intelligence Officer (IntO) and Legal Officer are not usually available for outside application. I know for a fact that for Legal Officer you must already have a law degree and "You must have been admitted to the Bar of a Canadian province, and be a member in good standing of a provincial law society."

Law & Security diploma is ultimately useless. It gives you no advantage over the average person who has worked security. In the Law Enforcement world, unless you're using it to upgrade to a Criminal Justice degree (a.k.a. something remotely useful) L&S and Police Foundations programs are laughed upon. Take a look at the RMC website and take a look at the programs that they offer, depending on the occupation you select/selected for, you may be restricted to fewer choices however this is all something you should be talking to a recruiter for.


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## pretentious (26 Jan 2013)

Thanks for the input and your time to respond!
I am an applicant, not a recruit - please change the thread title 

I know that the L&S and Police foundations are laughable diploma's to many people and being someone that took this program I would have to strongly agree. I have submitted and will see where it takes me, I'll keep you updated 

My main interest is the Bachelor of Science: Space Science the RMC offers. However chemistry, physics, and mathematics are also desired degrees. I could return to Carleton, or I could accept advanced standing Criminology at Laurier. But again, like you said, I applied and I hope it takes me to the RMC, Kingston.

P.S. Yes, pretentious, has been my alias since time immemorial.


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## jwtg (26 Jan 2013)

Intelligence officer is a a possibility for ROTP/RMC OCdts; however, very, very few people are accepted for these positions. I can think of only a handful currently at RMC.

legal officer is a military lawyer, so you have to go to law school. ROTP is not an available entry plan for legal officer, so I recommended you amend your application by adding a trade which will actually give you a shot at being accepted. Try and find a trade you like which is accessible via the ROTP route.

Good luck.


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## pretentious (6 Feb 2013)

CFAT passed - qualified as officer ;D
Accepted conditional offer..
Interview + medical next week


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## Conz (6 Feb 2013)

pretentious said:
			
		

> CFAT passed - qualified as officer ;D
> Accepted conditional offer..
> Interview + medical next week



What? How could you be offered a conditional offer based on your CFAT results prior to medical and interview? Would you mind explaining this conditional offer, as offers typically roll out for ROTP in April? I am interested to hear what you have to say about this, Pretentious.


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## pretentious (6 Feb 2013)

Sir, I am absolutely uncertain... I wish I had have read it more clearly, I searched the forums for "conditional offer of employment" and didn't find many answers. I changed my career selections to infantry officer and ACSO in addition to pilot; perhaps you could answer as to what I signed exactly =\


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## jwtg (6 Feb 2013)

Conz said:
			
		

> What? How could you be offered a conditional offer based on your CFAT results prior to medical and interview? Would you mind explaining this conditional offer, as offers typically roll out for ROTP in April? I am interested to hear what you have to say about this, Pretentious.


All is not as it seems.

At some point in the process, one of the forms requires the applicant to accept a conditional offer of employment.  It's a little tick in a box somewhere.  Maybe someone working in recruiting can speak to exactly what it means, but it certainly doesn't mean that anybody has been accepted for ROTP, so don't panic yet.  

The process is simple: people apply and get merit listed.  The people highest on the merit list get offered jobs.  You don't get merit listed until you've completed the entire application process, including the interview and medical.


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## pretentious (6 Feb 2013)

jwtg said:
			
		

> All is not as it seems.
> 
> At some point in the process, one of the forms requires the applicant to accept a conditional offer of employment.  It's a little tick in a box somewhere.  Maybe someone working in recruiting can speak to exactly what it means, but it certainly doesn't mean that anybody has been accepted for ROTP, so don't panic yet.
> 
> The process is simple: people apply and get merit listed.  The people highest on the merit list get offered jobs.  You don't get merit listed until you've completed the entire application process, including the interview and medical.



Thanks for the clarity jwtg, I suppose I should not have posted that, but I wanted an answer. Yes, there is still a long process for me and I am full of fear.
I'm just so relieved that I qualified as officer, so many questions I figured out after the fact - over thought them.

I'm not even merit listed yet, and the competition is staggering. And as stated in my first post the RMC, I assume the ROTP selectors, merely stated I was only suitable to make an application. :-\


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## Conz (6 Feb 2013)

Ah, sorry to jump on that. I guess I don't recall that tiny check box. My bad.


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## pretentious (11 Feb 2013)

My interview is tomorrow morning.
I had come across a pdf file of "pre-interview questionnaire" to help with the interview but forgot to save the page. I searched the entire forums, many of the recruitment office sub-forums, and google directly; I cannot seem to find the file again. Could someone please provide me a link?

Thanks in advance

Edit:
Found it!!

http://www.11rca.ca/web_pdf/prep.pdf


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## pretentious (22 Mar 2013)

Well, an update..

My interview didn't go too well. I was very nervous. 

When I was speaking with 2 people at the front desk of the recruiting centre one of the people informed me that my application was not competitive enough for pilot, though then the other looked at him and stated that wasn't a certainty; I can't understand why this converstion happened. Though I understand why I wouldn't be competitive enough as I have never flown before and such; the one stated that the interview made me noncompetitive. I was already scheduled to write an Aircrew Test Series for my ACSO choice, so it is safe to assume as they went directly to my second choice for testing that my first choice of pilot is out of the question?

Unfortunately I did not qualify for ACSO either, apparently not by much and it had become the most appealing choice as to the diversity of the job, I wrote the test midday March 21st after an overnight shift at work that I am also doing again tonight. Though I suppose there are no excuses, you figure you're smart until you're given >12 seconds to answer a question... I was even informed that my CFAT spatial scores lowered the requirements, but I still did not meet them.  :'(

My main goal is to enter the forces and to return to university level education. Even more misfortune is that I have to upgrade my math education to retake the AirNav test. I am in no financial situation to return to school on my own. 

While being a pilot is an ambition, more thorough thought on the job changes my mind slightly because of: sitting in one place operating a machine (while I mean no disrespect to pilots), i.e. from using microsoft flight simulator flying seems relatively easy except of course for that whole landing portion (Not that I'm good at it, straight flight is certainly difficult and proper turns even more so but my learning curve seems good - on a keyboard  :-\ ); the responsibility; the high frequency of relocation; etc. I am unsure if I even want to to go to ASC if offered, if I failed the ACSO test how can I pass pilot? I suppose I might as well give it a shot though. I will be doing more research into professions, studying more aircraft used and practicing more on the simulator, but I obviously post here for some input. 

I figure I won't be attending school this year.


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## jwtg (22 Mar 2013)

pretentious said:
			
		

> . . .
> 
> I am in no financial situation to return to school on my own.


Not sure what province you're own, but things like the ILC @ http://www.ilc.org/ offer very, very affordable high school courses which you complete from home, on your time.  If there is/are a/any high school math course/s you can take to upgrade, look into that, or its equivalent in your province (if offered).


> While being a pilot is an ambition, more thorough thought on the job changes my mind slightly because of: sitting in one place operating a machine (while I mean no disrespect to pilots), i.e. from using microsoft flight simulator flying seems relatively easy except of course for that whole landing portion (Not that I'm good at it, straight flight is certainly difficult and proper turns even more so but my learning curve seems good - on a keyboard  :-\ ); the responsibility; the high frequency of relocation; etc. I am unsure if I even want to to go to ASC if offered, *if I failed the ACSO test how can I pass pilot*? I suppose I might as well give it a shot though. I will be doing more research into professions, studying more aircraft used and practicing more on the simulator, but I obviously post here for some input.
> 
> I figure I won't be attending school this year.


ACSO and PILOT are different trades with different tests specific to the aptitudes required to succeed in them.  Passing or failing on one selection test does not necessarily predict your performance on the other one.  

Good luck, and don't give up.


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## dimsum (22 Mar 2013)

jwtg said:
			
		

> ACSO and PILOT are different trades with different tests specific to the aptitudes required to succeed in them.  Passing or failing on one selection test does not necessarily predict your performance on the other one.



I second that.  I know a bunch of Pilots who have failed the ACSO exam.


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## SentryMAn (22 Mar 2013)

If you think a pilots job is easy, it's best you seek a few to chat with.  They don't just allow anyone to fly away in multi million dollar aircraft.  They also don't "sit around and operate machinery" as you put it.

I would start by clearly thinking about what you want to do, if Pilot is it, then start doing things to make your application for pilot more competitive, maybe get a private pilots license, etc.

If you truly want it, then do things to go get it.


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## pretentious (23 Mar 2013)

Thanks for your replies. I suppose I shouldn't post when being distaught about a test, I had walked into the test confident and ACSO seemed such an amazing career. I will certainly try my best to pass ASC if offered. 

jwtg, unfortunately I have all the math credits Ontario high school has to offer. I would need to upgrade my poor first year university marks, or attend second year. 

SentryMAn, I meant no disrespect, I know I have no true idea what I am talking about and each job probably entitles far more than the description. I am sure no career in the CF is easy, but yes I do need to figure out which job I want to do and truly pilot is it, save my self image of inadequacy. I will be reading more in the Air Force subforum and studying more. I can imagine the g-force doesn't allow you to be a jet pilot for a large portion of your career, though I think I'd prefer to be a rotorhead (I know I cannot choose). I wonder what happens when you need to urinate..


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## SupersonicMax (23 Mar 2013)

pretentious said:
			
		

> While being a pilot is an ambition, more thorough thought on the job changes my mind slightly because of: sitting in one place operating a machine (while I mean no disrespect to pilots), i.e. from using microsoft flight simulator flying seems relatively easy except of course for that whole landing portion (Not that I'm good at it, straight flight is certainly difficult and proper turns even more so but my learning curve seems good - on a keyboard  :-\ )



Flying is easy.  Yes.  In fact, I don't even think about flying my aircraft from A to B.  It's kinda second nature.  Flying straight hard?  Really?  

What is hard is leading a Strike Package of 69 aircraft from 5 different countries across a political border (at which point it is totally in the country's rights to shoot you or any other aircraft down and you can bet they will not let you just go across their border in an offensive fashion without resistance).  Do it, strike all your targets and not losing any aircraft.

Hard is being able to come up and execute a gameplan that is in line with the commander's intent, that is realistic and effective.  And knowing that if that gameplan fails, you are responsible for it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_Q_Strike

Hard is being able to compose yourself when your Radar Warning Receiver lights up from a Surface to Air missile that is being shot at you while you see the flash of the missile's boost motor coming  up for you.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMu6mGgqepo

Hard is being able to assess the situation real time and being able to abort an Air-to-Ground attack because you become concerned for collateral damage.  http://www.ctvnews.ca/canadian-pilots-abort-bombing-over-risk-to-civilians-1.621929

Hard is knowing that you are more than a pilot, you are a weapon system that is highly deadly.  

Hard is knowing that you have/may have to kill people and being able to live with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Id8M9f5xs

Get it?  Flying is secondary to the job.  Being a pilot in the CF is way more than flying an aircraft.


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## Chelomo (23 Mar 2013)

It seems to me like you're in love with the idea of the Canadian forces, and with the idea of getting free education. You should apply to a trade because you love it and everything that goes with it, not because you want to 'get in'. I've been working for 3 years to make my application competitive for ROTP. That's the length of a college degree. The only thing that changed in my trades was that I switched infantry for artillery as my first choice. 

I would advise you take time to really decide exactly WHAT you want to do in the CF, as this might be the job you're stuck with for 20-30 years. Once you have found that, push forward and do everything to make it happen, including taking time to do courses you need or improving your marks.

As SupersonicMax said (Very eloquently), executing your chosen trade is only the first part of the job. It's important to be fully aware that you are dealing with human lives here. Yours, your soldiers', the enemy's and civilians'. That's a huge responsability that many people can't handle when they're confronted to it, and It's important you realize that any time you become overconfident, you are putting your life, and more importantly, the life of your fellow soldiers at stake.


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## pretentious (23 Mar 2013)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> ... Flying straight hard?  Really?  ...
> 
> .. Flying is secondary to the job.  Being a pilot in the CF is way more than flying an aircraft.



Thank you very much for your time to respond SupersonicMax, it is the very insight I wanted but I am certain I still will not grasp the job fully. I hope my comments didn't offend you.   

I seem to fly in horizontal sine or cosine functions but that could be because my arrow keys do not auto-neutral the rudder and the particular wing flaps like a joystick would (I could be mistaken). I had also meant that in Microsoft Flight Sim I never align with the runway perfectly but rather am at least off by 1 degree which can turn into immense distances from the runway if I don't correct. 




			
				Chelomo said:
			
		

> It seems to me like you're in love with the idea of the Canadian forces, and with the idea of getting free education...
> 
> ... As SupersonicMax said (Very eloquently), executing your chosen trade is only the first part of the job. It's important to be fully aware that you are dealing with human lives here. Yours, your soldiers', the enemy's and civilians'. That's a huge responsibility that many people can't handle when they're confronted to it, and It's important you realize that any time you become overconfident, you are putting your life, and more importantly, the life of your fellow soldiers at stake.



Chelomo, Yes I think that it appropriate to say I am enchanted or in love with the life style and career opportunities the Canadian Forces has to offer. It is my desire to work within some field of public service, I want to serve this country and its people. Free education is icing on a very delicious, endlessly satisfying, cake. I want to prove myself to myself, accomplish school and such as I am capable but not able. However, I more so would prefer the opportunity to become a member. To become the best I can be physically, able to prove myself in that fashion too. The opportunity to uphold our values... I'm not just applying for the free education.

Yes I do understand, there is much responsibility of the Canadian Forces members. I imagine the under-confidence I feel right now is far more dangerous.


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