# Flag/Colour Party Drill question



## Jabrwock (4 May 2009)

CFP 201 is a bit vague about this...

For an about turn, the CP uses "spiral counter-march" (so it doesn't swap left/right, v. important if you're carrying two flags together)? Is this called on the same foot as "mark time"? Is there a precautionary? How many paces following the march do you begin to mark time? CFP 202 describes the counter-march in general terms (well, mainly with a picture), but it's signalled by the drum-major via mace, not verbal.

March-past: When the parade moves to the right in column of threes, how does the CP execute "forms at the halt or on the march" in such a way that they stay lined up with the rest of the column? A standard form would a) end up with the CP to the left of the line, since the right flank does a 90 deg turn, and the rest swing out to the left, and b) run into the squad to the right of the CP (if you're positioned in the middle of the parade) since a form requires you to move forward to allow the rest of the CP to swing out and line up. To clarify, I mean turning to the right when the rest of the unit does a "move to the right in column of route". At this point the CP is under the command of the parade commander.


----------



## armchair_throwaway (8 May 2009)

From your profile I'm assuming your question regards army cadet drill. I was in the air cadet CP as 2IC, and I think our drill should be similar. I haven't done this in awhile so I'll try my best.

The CP counter march is called as "COUNTER - MARCH" (cautionary - executive) on the left foot. Take a check pace and then 15 paces before coming to attention and then continue marching. 

Individually, 
the mid-front (Canadian flag) just do clockwise turn while mark time on the spot,
the right-front march counter-clockwise "circling" the above person,
the left-front march clockwise "circling" the above person,
the rear rank will just march behind and follow what the person in front is doing.
Note that all should be swinging their arms and ideally at pace 8 or so should "meet" in the middle and form a single line.

When the march pass is called, the cmdr would say something similar to "[Sqn] will march pass in column of route, move to the right in column of route, Band and Colour Party TAKE - POST."

At that, CP does something called a right center wheel. It is called as "RIGHT CENTER - WHEEL". The movement is basically just the entire CP doing circular mark time until they're in position. I THINK it's 8 paces and then come to attention, if I remembered correctly.

After that, the cmdr will call the march pass again but this time addresses it to the entire [squadron].

Hope this helps.


----------



## Love793 (9 May 2009)

Jabrwock said:
			
		

> CFP 201 is a bit vague about this...
> 
> For an about turn, the CP uses "spiral counter-march" (so it doesn't swap left/right, v. important if you're carrying two flags together)? Is this called on the same foot as "mark time"? Is there a precautionary? How many paces following the march do you begin to mark time? CFP 202 describes the counter-march in general terms (well, mainly with a picture), but it's signalled by the drum-major via mace, not verbal.
> 
> March-past: When the parade moves to the right in column of threes, how does the CP execute "forms at the halt or on the march" in such a way that they stay lined up with the rest of the column? A standard form would a) end up with the CP to the left of the line, since the right flank does a 90 deg turn, and the rest swing out to the left, and b) run into the squad to the right of the CP (if you're positioned in the middle of the parade) since a form requires you to move forward to allow the rest of the CP to swing out and line up. To clarify, I mean turning to the right when the rest of the unit does a "move to the right in column of route". At this point the CP is under the command of the parade commander.



Paces right and left, ie "3 Paces Right Close, March"


----------



## Jabrwock (11 May 2009)

lucia_engel said:
			
		

> From your profile I'm assuming your question regards army cadet drill. I was in the air cadet CP as 2IC, and I think our drill should be similar. I haven't done this in awhile so I'll try my best.


Your assumption is correct. In theory, the drill should be "standard" across the three elements now.

My problem is that while I (and many others) remember what *we* did in our flag parties, many years ago, we're supposed to be teaching "by the book" now so that everyone does drill the same. The problem is that while the 201 describes point A and C, it skips over point B (ie the "here's where you start", "here's where you end up", but no "here's how to get there").

It states that if the FP is marching on/off, forms are to be used for turns. Fair enough, the FP should be positioned on the edge of the parade square so that marching on requires one left form, and marching off, a right form. But then the diagram goes on to show what is clearly not a form but a counter-march (to about-turn when you pass by the parade's front rank), but doesn't describe how to do it (202 does, sort of, except that when a band does it, the "centre" doesn't mark time, but rather does a small 180 wheel, and it's not a verbal command, but drum mace indicated, nor is it seem to be called on a particular foot). 

So, my quest is to find a "by the book" reference.

And for independent moves to a flank (presumably including the turn to prep for a march-past), it says to use turns at the halt or on the march, but then doesn't state what to do about the messing with line alignment. 



			
				Love793 said:
			
		

> Paces right and left, ie "3 Paces Right Close, March"


While technically correct, I have yet to see a flag/colour party ever do this...


----------



## Love793 (11 May 2009)

The Form can be found in The CF Manual of Drill and Ceremonial A-PD-201-000/PT-000, Chapt 3 Sect 137-148.


----------



## Jabrwock (12 May 2009)

Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't have a problem with figuring out how to do normal forms.

See the image below. What normally happens in a form is that the squad's right marker would be in position A. When doing a right turn to prep for the march past needs be in position B, otherwise: 1) they'd have run into the platoon/company to the right, and 2) be 3-4 paces to the left of the column they're marching with.







So, can they, instead of marching forward, mark time, and cover (by the right guard and cmdr taking shot paces to the right and rear), instead of having to do paces to the right and paces to the rear following the normal form? The only place in the 201 it describes "covering while marching" is when a wheel is interrupted (by halt or marking time), and the rear files are ordered to cover.


----------

