# Self-Harm/Suicide Attempts/ And other Serious Mental Health Issues.



## Scott 1988

Hello. I'm turning 20 next month. During my teen years from about 13-18 I went through a severe depression. I was prescribed a bunch of different anti depressants and anti anxiety medications. I ran into some addiction problems with tranquilizers (which is on my chart). I also spent some time in a youth psychiatric hospital when I was 15-16 on two occasions for about a month both times. I was self admitted my parents made me but the point is I was not institutionalized. All for depression and anxiety not any kind of psychotic illness or anything like that. I am now 100% stable. It probably had something to do with imbalances caused by puberty. A good amount of teenagers suffer depression during this time. 

Anyway I figured in my medical it might come up. I'm not depressed now and not on any kind of medication. I really want a career in the military and I hope this won't hold me back in any way. If any of you have any insight it would be greatly appreciated.


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## The_Falcon

You may want to put a bit of distance between yourself and your problems, 2 years isn't that long quite frankly, and the military can be quite hard a on a fragile psyche (provided you aren't screen out in the first place.  Not to mention the addiction issues which is also a huge red flag, for recruiters, I hope you have alternate career plans.


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## Fishbone Jones

Scott 1988,

As with a multitude of threads like this, we can't really help you here. We're not doctors, nor are we the people you have to see and convince to enter the military. Those would be the Recruiters and the recruiting Medical personnel. There's really nothing we can say here that you can take to the bank. You have contact the Recruiting Centre for clarification. Good luck.

Cheers,

Milnet.ca Staff   

_edit for spelling_


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## bluemike807

Last year things were a bit stressful and I wound up seeing a psychologist on my family doctor's referral. We had about four sessions, after which his diagnosis was that any depression I had was situational and required a few life changes, as opposed to a prescription. This suited me fine as I'd rather not be on anything. Made the necessary changes and things have been, for the most part, better. Certainly there has been no need for medication, and no additional counseling. 

How should this be disclosed during my medical/interview if/when asked? I have no intention of lying.


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## Bzzliteyr

I don't see it hurting you.  As has been discussed in many a topic on this site, honesty is best.  

Honesty is a good quality and seeing a psychologist is nothing to be ashamed of.  Once you explain the reasons and end result of your visits you should be good.  Be ready to give the recruiting center  a contact number or medical proof if they ask.


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## Ayrsayle

From my personal experience - honesty might get you some more paperwork and a longer process, but dishonesty can cost you the opportunity period. Paperwork doesn't seem so bad now does it?


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## PuckChaser

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> From my personal experience - honesty might get you some more paperwork and a longer process, but dishonesty can cost you the opportunity period. Paperwork doesn't seem so bad now does it?



Great summary. Be completely honest, and I doubt it will be an issue at all.


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## dapaterson

The QR&O includes a release item for those who make false statements on enrolment.  It's included with the release items for people sentenced at court-martial to being expelled from the military, to give you a sense of how such actions are viewed.


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## medicineman

When you do your medical, there is a box to tick yes or no of "Have you ever had to see a psychologist, social worker, counsellor,etc" or words to that effect.  You'll be asked to explain it and the person doing your medical, depending on the situation, may require you to get a questionnaire filled out by the person you saw or your family doctor depending on the situation.  

As DP noted, (unless it's changed) Section 117 of the National Defence Act clearly states that it is an offense to make a false statement on enrollment and it is punishable by a up to and including a  whole pile of nastiness, such as jail time, dismissal with disgrace, etc ad nauseum.  Be honest, get the paper filled out if it's warranted, and things will likely go smoothly.

Cheers.

MM


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## toyotatundra

Honesty is definitely the best policy.

In almost any community, we are separated from others by one or two degrees of separation. People know people. And people talk.

Better to be up front with your past. And not have lies catch up with you in a disastrous way in the future.


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## Hub

I know this has been brought up before, but I'm not getting a definitive answer. My girlfriend wants to join the reserves, but she suffers from bipolar disorder. And when I mean suffer, I mean suicidal thoughts, major bouts of mania and depression. She is a rapid-cycling bipolar. This means that while many sufferers have one or two episodes a year, she has that many a day. 
I honestly don't think she should be allowed anywhere near a rifle. She is on a host of mood drugs, including lithium. I want her to realize her potential, but I don't think the military is the place for her. 
I have expressed my concerns to her, but she lost her mind over it and accused me of interefering. I spoke to her recruiter, but I was told it was against the privacy act to discuss her application.
Can someone please tell me if she will be rejected out of hand for her current mental state. And if not, why not?
Thanks very much.


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## the 48th regulator

Really?

Locked.

dileas

tess

milnet.ca staff


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## Hub

I don't understand. I asked a straightforward question about the medical process, and I've been shut down? Why?


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## PMedMoe

I'm guessing because the answer was fairly obvious.....


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## Hub

Well, I must be missing something. I cannot get a definitive answer. I get ambiguity or a 'wait and see' response, or my question is locked down. The question again, at the risk of being locked, is: Will my girlfriend be rejected out-of-hand for being a rapid-cycling bipolar?


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## GAP

Yes


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## infantryian

Would you trust her with a weapon?


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## Hub

Absolutely not. That's my point. Will she be told outright or have to suffer through a lengthy process only to have her hopes raised unnecessarily?


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## Michael OLeary

Hub said:
			
		

> Absolutely not. That's my point. Will she be told outright or have to suffer through a lengthy process only to have her hopes raised unnecessarily?



*IF* she went to the recruiting centre, she would go through the same process as any other applicant. If her medical issues are such that they will prevent her from joining, that will only be determined after the necessary medical examination and review process. In order to maintain fairness of process, the recruiting centre staff aren't allowed to just turn people away.


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## Hub

She has been to the recruiting centre, applied for a supply clerk job and has submitted all her papers. I am deathly afraid she will try to conceal her disorder from the med staff or try to downplay it. Kudos to her for trying, but to be honest, I am relieved to read that she will be rejected. It's not a good match.


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## frank1515

If it's as bad as you say it is, they'll turn her down. Think about it, they won't give someone a weapons without making sure they are lucid, healthy and trustworthy. No I don't know for sure they'll turn her down, but I imagine a little common sense should validate what I say.


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## hacker202

Hi, I have been seeing a psychiatrist for delusional thoughts of people following me. I was prescribed antipsychotic medicine for that. I didn't take the medication and want to know if it would be a problem with the medical part of the enrollment and if I took the pills back to the doctor and ask him for a letter that I haven't used the pills at all, would it be ok? I read you have to be off those pills for a year before applying. Can someone help, please?


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## Jarnhamar

So you thought people were following you.

You seen a doctor and were prescribed medication to help you stop believing people were following you.

You didn't take the medication.

You want to go back to the doctor who prescribed you the medication and get a letter saying you did not take the antipsychotic medication that he prescribed you.

You want to take that letter and apply for the military where you'll be using assault rifles, machineguns, hand grenades.




I'm pretty sure you can do a better job at trolling the recruiting threads than this. You need to come back with something more funny or more believable if you want laughs or want to cause shit.


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## medicineman

I can see the letter now - "Pt X presented here complaining of paranoid delusions, specifically of being followed.  I prescribed them a course of (add your Rx) and now he's come back, saying he's been non-compliant due to him wanting to apply to the military.  The delusions, however, despite best intentions of all concerned, still continue to persist."

Me thinks that alone will have the PA/Snr Med Tech put a huge "Stop Drop" on your medical... :2c:

MM


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## hacker202

I am not trying to be funny... I went to the doctor and received therapy through medical appointments and no longer think I am followed. The medications make you a zombie walking that's why I didn't take them.


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## Eye In The Sky

I think you're missing the point.  Go back and re-read.


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## hacker202

Jesus Christ, I have no delusions and why would I need to take medication that is even blacklisted in the army enrollment...I am not followed by Santa's little helpers nor I am I crazy, I was just thinking at one point some people were going to harm me and its not something too crazy to think about it just wasn't justified in any way. In this world today a lot of people have the potential to be hurt by other people anywhere in random violence.


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## Eye In The Sky

hacker202 said:
			
		

> Hi, *I have been seeing a psychiatrist for delusional thoughts of people following me. I was prescribed antipsychotic medicine for that. I didn't take the medication*




Your words, don't get fuckin' mad at me.    :


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## hacker202

I didn't take it simply because I don't think its needed since its not a bad episode of being crazy I had reasonable grounds to believe someone wanted to hurt me, simply...The drugs do more harm to you then if I was not to take them and to add to that doctor didn't want to prescribe me anything, I insisted to try it, I don't know why, and after I researched more about it, I changed my mind.Do you think I am really going to throw a grenade at someone in the army? I am a harmless person mostly and want to serve the country, get more organized and disciplined.


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## Eye In The Sky

medicineman said:
			
		

> I can see the letter now - "Pt X presented here complaining of paranoid delusions, specifically of being followed.  I prescribed them a course of (add your Rx) and now he's come back, saying he's been non-compliant due to him wanting to apply to the military.  The delusions, however, despite best intentions of all concerned, still continue to persist."
> 
> Me thinks that alone will have the PA/Snr Med Tech put a huge "Stop Drop" on your medical... :2c:
> 
> MM



Take a read of that.  Then take a look at MM's profile so you understand his background and knowledge.


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## hacker202

I am completely healthy, I said to the doc I want to try the pills myself, I just spit it out, then changed my own mind.He said the therapy sessions are sufficient enough and if they didn't work I should try the pills. I've been through 2 months of going there and think everything is ok. What if the psychiatrist has a letter I am not delusional? Is it something that is going to follow me until I die, like a suicide attempt? I don't understand what's wrong with thinking someone wants to hurt you, a specific group of people not everyone or some elfs or something. I have no history of anger management problems, try to stay out of trouble generally.


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## Jarnhamar

Shit I'll bite, who did you think was after you?


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## medicineman

hacker202 said:
			
		

> Jesus Christ, I have no delusions and why would I need to take medication that is even blacklisted in the army enrollment...I am not followed by Santa's little helpers nor I am I crazy, I was just thinking at one point some people were going to harm me and its not something too crazy to think about it just wasn't justified in any way. In this world today a lot of people have the potential to be hurt by other people anywhere in random violence.



What EITS said.  BTW, I wasn't trying to be funny - I'm pretty sure, by what you wrote at the beginning, that's how the letter from the attending psychiatrist would read.

Many people are a bit worried about things in the world today...however they don't let it bug them to the point of going to see a psychiatrist.  If thoughts like that are starting to control your life, you have a problem that needs to be sorted out.  There are times when a psychiatrist/psychologist/primary care clinician needs to sort out if the problem is something probable/believable vs overblown anxiety vs early psychosis.  I'm a security conscious person - I'm aware of my surroundings, take combatives classes for fitness and self defense, lock my doors at night, watch where I'm driving or walking, etc - it doesn't make me pathologically paranoid though.  I wouldn't be able to leave my house where I live if I were.  Worrying that anyone around you seen or unseen might jump you or "thinking at some point some people were going to harm me" in the general scheme of things, i e - you're not in Wit Sec for witnessing a Mob hit or something along those lines where it's a real probability vs possibility, really isn't all that normal.  A person I knew wouldn't go wait for a bus to go to work if there were storm clouds around - someone who knew someone she knew was hit by lightning.  She put 2 and 2 together and got 22 instead of 4, thinking it was a probable event instead of a possible event.  She'd actually call in sick instead of taking the bus to work in that kind of weather.  Needless to say, she had issues...

The medication that is blacklisted (as you put it) in Army enrollment isn't blacklisted because it's illegal - it's blacklisted because people that are prescribed it are taking it for a reason, one that is generally considered incompatible with military service.  Other than the unwanted effects, did the stuff work for you?  Anything positive come out of it?

I guess the one thing I do want to say to anyone out there reading this is this - if you have a mental health problem, get it dealt with, whether or not you want to join the military.  If you have a condition that precludes you from joining, that's unfortunate, but it shouldn't stop you from getting treatment, be it pharmaceutical, psychotherapy or both.  Thinking that you've got to stop your medication so you can get in?  Don't without clear direction from the person prescribing it - when people start feeling better, they sometimes don't realize they still need the stuff for awhile or ever even and want off of it - if I had a dime for every person that has told me "I don't like taking pills", I'd be a multigazillionaire.  Half the time, the reason they don't want to be taking them is because then they'd have to admit there is something wrong with them.  Admit there is a problem and then own it so it doesn't own you.

Lastly, just because you really really want to get into the CF doesn't mean you should - there are entry standards for a reason.  I'll say it again - it's not personal, it's business.  This is a physically and mentally demanding line of work, so those standards are in place to make sure you yourself, as well as all around you, aren't placed  in any more risk than is already inherent to the job.

Sorry for the rant.

MM


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## hacker202

As a matter of fact, I don't have uncontrollable psychosis with unprovoked anxiety. My issues have grounds to be believable and probable, the psychiatrist asked me the first time I seen him if its an ongoing issue with someone. People see a psychiatrist for a bunch of different issues, not only regarding being crazy but rather some things you are facing like break up of your parents. My father was telling me to see the doctor and in regards to that matter I went and seen him because I wanted someone to hear my problems and reason on what is happening. After clearing this up with the doctor, I don't see how that disqualifies me from enrolling in the forces since its not some crazy psychosis like you earlier said and I don't pose any threat to people around me in any situation at any time. Just doesn't settle in my mind what you are telling me because I am completely normal and had an issue I wanted to talk to with someone as an advise from my dad.


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## hacker202

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> crap I'll bite, who did you think was after you?


I would rather keep it to myself since its not something funny or interesting to someone else


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## RedcapCrusader

hacker202 said:
			
		

> I would rather keep it to myself since its not something funny or interesting to someone else



Sounds like a case of those people on YouTube that post videos about being a victim of "Gang Stalking" by the RCMP and secret gov't orgs just because the same colour, make, model car drives by their house everyday at the same time (or a helicopter flew overhead). You just woke up one day and thought: "Someone is following me and out to get me."

*I'm no expert* but it seems like paranoid delusions to me, and the worst part is people with paranoid delusions don't try to get out of being diagnosed or on meds unless they have an ulterior motive. In one case I've dealt with, we had one such try to have his diagnosis and meds reversed so he could join CBSA - it was later found out in some disturbing social media posts that his motive was to sabotage "government mind control systems from the inside." 

Normally, people don't directly go for a Psychiatrist about these things. Generally a regular healthy citizen would talk to family, consult with local law enforcement and seek out a psychologist counsellor/therapist.

But, if it is just a big misunderstanding, why not just do the time on the meds and therapy or get a second opinion? Pulling yourself off meds without consultation of a medical professional is not going to work in your favour. Non-compliance is the worst thing you can do to yourself.


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## Infanteer

Talk to a recruiter.

Locked.


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## SMG III

I've used the search for multiple different phrasings and I can't find anything.

I'm 18 now, merit listed, and waiting for my call.

I've heard there was a psychological test or something either before or during BMQ.

A month after my 13th birthday my mum died and I started self-harming by cutting. I've long stopped by now but I have a decent amount of scars on my right shoulder and left forearm that I couldn't talk my way out of it if I tried. Will this be an issue? I don't want the Forces thinking I can't handle stress. I was 13 and upset and stupid, but that was 5.5 years ago. Will this be an issue? I just don't want something like this to ruin my chances of success.

Thanks for the help.


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## PMedMoe

SMG said:
			
		

> I've heard there was a psychological test or something either before or during BMQ.



Who'd you hear that from?

Never heard of it.  Anything like that should be done during your recruiting process, not after it.  IIRC, I was interviewed by a Log O.   :


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## SMG III

Regardless I still need to know if I'll have issues or not.


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## The_Falcon

Read this thread http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/112199.0.html if you require further information you need to speak with medical personnel at the recruiting center.

Locked

Hatchet Man
Milnet.ca Staff


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## Sorrenti

I've been thinking of joining the the forces via ROTP for a while now, but I've been waiting until the end of the year when I get my high school diploma to apply. I'm twenty years old, and when I was sixteen years old I attempted suicide twice, and have visible scarring on my arms from that same time period. I'm fine now, am a very active person, and am at the top of my class (I attend a dual university / high school program). Would this history give me an automatic DQ? I haven't been able to find relevant information pertaining to Canada on this issue. Any input would be great. 


*Additional information*: I was hospitalized, but was never diagnosed with any mental illnesses.


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## Goose15

The best advice someone on here can give you is to speak to a recruiter and/or your local CFRC medical staff. They will be able to give you an accurate and up-to-date answer for your question.

I wish you the best of luck


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## The_Falcon

There are multiple threads about mental health and enrolling already, along with advice regarding information of a personal/specific nature that cannot be addressed here.  Read those threads.

Hatchet Man
Army.ca Staff


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## The_Falcon

I merged several topics regarding "serious" mental health issues  (suicidal tendencies/self harm/bi-polar issues etc.) into one as they all have 2 thing in common.

1) your chances of getting in are to put it bluntly are very very remote. 
2) That said, for a DEFINATIVE ANSWER, ONLY MEDICAL STAFF AT A RECRUITING CENTRE CAN SAY YEA OR NAY.  As well you WILL have to go through ALL THE PRECEEDING APPLICATION STEPS FIRST.  Full Stop. 

You may not like that, and may not want to go through all those steps...tough.

You may think you are "special"  or your issue is really not that serious.  You aren't special, and how serious your problem is (and whether or not to let you join), is for THE CAF to decide.  Not you, your mother or your doctor.

For Further information see this post.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/112199.0

Any further posts, will be removed, because you will not receive an answer different from what I just posted.


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## Banksmj01

Okay so i'm not sure where exactly this thread should go so I put it here. I have been in the recruitment process now for 8 months and was just comming on the end of the process with the back ground check, when I recieved a later stating that I have failed the medical and am deemed unfit for service.

Now that statement I do not agree with, what caused this letter to be sent was a suicide attempt 2 years ago, I am 19 and that was a 1 and only attempt in my life, I feel stupid about it and am past this, Doing much better an believe I am fit and will continue to be. I have dreamed of a career with the Canadian Forces since I was 9 years old, so you can guess how shattering this letter was but there is hope even if just a little bit. Some say that if you have any mental health issues in the past you will be unable to join at all. However in this letter it said 2 things on that the reason was for "Suicidal Ideation in which I was hospitalized for 1-2 days." what that makes me think is that on record they don't have an accual attempt on there but rather suicidal thoughts, this may help me a little bit, and lastly in the letter it stated I may appeal or wait 12 months and be reconsidered.

I talked to the recruiter and captain there and he said that I can work on my medical issues and my file will stay open untill the background check is complete and once complete he will close my file, but did state "Its only a matter of reopening it when you are ready."

So what I would like some advice on and my questions are...

~ Will the fact that it says I may be reconsidered actually mean I'll be reconsidered or will I just get denied again for the same thing? like are they saying this to avoid discouraging me or will they legit reconsider me, and look past this if there are no new or further issues?

~ With that said Should I try and appeal or just wait the 12 months "9 months now".

~ Will I ever be able to join the army with this on my medical record/should I try again and keep fighting it?

Now this is my dream so I won't go easy no matter if it takes me 1 year or 5 years to get in but the question is do I stand a chance?

Thanks for your time guys I would really like some anwsers so that I can do everything possible to make this dream come true.


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## Flatliner

Did you receive any kind of therapy following the event or were you only hospitalized for a couple of days?


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## bookibaloush

I wish to join the army as soon as i finish my studies.. So far i've done alot of research and i'm ready for all the guarding duties and digging holes to be used as a toilet but what scares me is my medical history... When i was young (12 to 17) i had alot of mental problems that i've overlapped since i'm 19. I'm currently 23 and i'm physically and mentally healthy, suicidal tendancy's and such has been gone for the past 4 years and i throughly enjoy life... But what scares me the most is...If all of my problems been solved 4 years ago and i even have psychologues and industrial psychologues saying i'm able to join the army in my current state... Is my dream still viable? Will the army overlook my problematic past and see that i have no problems anymore? 


Edit : I would like to add that i've never done drugs, i have by no means any diseases or handicap that would hinder any physical process.. I'm only scared of the old paperwork.


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## mariomike

bookibaloush said:
			
		

> I'm currently 23 and i'm physically and mentally healthy, suicidal tendancy's and such has been gone for the past 4 years and i throughly enjoy life...



You may find this discussion of interest,

The Recruiting Office > Enrollment Medical > Self-Harm/Suicide Attempts/ And other Serious Mental Health Issues
http://army.ca/forums/threads/69787.0/nowap.html
2 pages.

See also,

Common Enrollment Medical Standards?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/116510.0
OP: "I've read about self-harm on here but it doesn't really give a definite answer so I thought it may be listed on what sort of self-harm would disqualify you"

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


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## mariomike

bookibaloush said:
			
		

> wish to join the army as soon as i finish my studies.. So far i've done alot of research and i'm ready for all the guarding duties and digging holes to be used as a toilet but what scares me is my medical history... When i was young (12 to 17) i had alot of mental problems that i've overlapped since i'm 19. I'm currently 23 and i'm physically and mentally healthy, suicidal tendancy's and such has been gone for the past 4 years and i throughly enjoy life... But what scares me the most is...If all of my problems been solved 4 years ago and i even have psychologues and industrial psychologues saying i'm able to join the army in my current state... Is my dream still viable? Will the army overlook my problematic past and see that i have no problems anymore?
> 
> 
> TLR no longer have any mental problems, overcomed all of my traumas but scared that my old paperwork will block the way for me and my dream



See also,

My dream is to join the army but my medical history scares me
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/122849/post-1431706.html#msg1431706



			
				bookibaloush said:
			
		

> I wish to join the army as soon as i finish my studies.. So far i've done alot of research and i'm ready for all the guarding duties and digging holes to be used as a toilet but what scares me is my medical history... When i was young (12 to 17) i had alot of mental problems that i've overlapped since i'm 19. I'm currently 23 and i'm physically and mentally healthy, suicidal tendancy's and such has been gone for the past 4 years and i throughly enjoy life... But what scares me the most is...If all of my problems been solved 4 years ago and i even have psychologues and industrial psychologues saying i'm able to join the army in my current state... Is my dream still viable? Will the army overlook my problematic past and see that i have no problems anymore?
> 
> 
> Edit : I would like to add that i've never done drugs, i have by no means any diseases or handicap that would hinder any physical process.. I'm only scared of the old paperwork.


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## bookibaloush

Thank you very much! From what i gathered i'll be given a fair chance of explaning myself and having no addiction problems of any sort with my old medication greatly increases my chances. Thanks you very much it eases my mind.


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## mariomike

bookibaloush said:
			
		

> Thank you very much!



You are welcome. Good luck.   The discussions and opinions you read on here are not official. As it says at the bottom of the page, "Unofficial site, not associated with DND."

As a disclaimer, I say again: "As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of information."

For reference, perhaps "My dream is to join the army but my medical history scares me." will be merged with "Self-Harm/Suicide Attempts/ And other Serious Mental Health Issues"
http://army.ca/forums/threads/69787.0/nowap.html
2 pages.


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## bookibaloush

Thanks. I contacted a recruiter by e-mail about my case so i can have an official answer . I dont think going there in person would help my case since i'm not meeting the 24 credits requirement :/


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## The Bread Guy

bookibaloush - Welcome to Army.ca.

Did you read the Conduct Guidelines?  Especially this part?


> ... You will not *spam the boards*. This is usually described as making the same post over and over, or the same post to multiple forums or threads. Accounts that are believed to be registered by bots or spammers will be immediately banned ...



Please read the rules, follow them, and have some patience - a single post with a single question will get dealt with.

*Army.ca Staff*


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