# French Language Training



## Pieman (4 Dec 2004)

I figured this would have been answered before, I did a search and did not see it from what I can tell. Sorry if this is a repeat.

I was wondering if those people who have gone through the 7 month Officer french training, how they found their French after the training? 7 months is not a long time to get a handle on any language. Did you learn enough that you were comfortable talking to people, and could function? What was your french language knowledge prior to the CF language training?

I have almost no French. Well, I had classes in grades 4-6, but I can't say I remember much besides simple phrases.

I took German all through the rest of my school career, and I also know Dutch. So I have experience learning other languages and I hope I can pick it up fairly fast. But knowing essentially no French, would it be wise -- or rather, would it be essential for me to get myself into a french language course while i am waiting for my application? Or will it be safe to just wait for the CF language training?


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## MattyH (11 Dec 2005)

I gotta help you out man... I want to know more about it too. Can anyone help? Thanks


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## Chimo (11 Dec 2005)

Here is my personal experience:

I went in for a placement oral evaluation. This was an interview to determine any previous experience I might have. They use this to place you at the right level of instruction at the beginning of the course. I had little or no previous knowledge so started at the bottom. I believe it is built around 15 modules of increasing difficulty. The aim is to have you reach "B"s which would mean you are functional, in writing, reading and oral.

I did the IMLAC test once I started the course. It is a test based on Kurdish to see how suitable you are to learn a second language. I was OK but not great. 

The classes start, from 8:00- 15:00 hrs daily. Seems like a swan but my head hurt at the end of most days. I also took the course in Edmonton.

The teachers worked hard and the atmosphere was very friendly. However at the end of it I ended up with only a BBA I was weakest on oral.

The oral exams are conducted by telephone interview and they want you to be able to conducted a detailed conversation about you work. You have two attempts to obtain a "B" level.

It is like going to school every day. It is hard work and not everyone will be successful. I hope this helps you out.


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## casing (14 Dec 2005)

I'll add my experiences.   I completed the course in St-Jean with a BBA in Aug '04.   I went in with practically zero French--I took a 1 semester course 20 years ago, it did not come back to me.

They try to keep the class sizes small--8 or 9 people is a large class.   Our days generally were from 0800 until 1530.   Some teachers are very good, but many are also lacking in their instructional ability.   Some teachers assign a large amount of homework, others assign practically none.   If you are serious about learning the language, you will do plenty of homework, whether you are assigned some or not.   You will likely swap teachers half way through the course.   In some cases, students may also change classes.

As far as learning enough to become functional, well that will really depend upon you.   It is possible, though.   One of my friends went in with zero french background and pulled off a CCB.   I'd say that most people are easily capable of finishing up with at least a BBA. A few people got one or more X's (you don't want an X--you can logically infer what X means because of that).   It really depends on how much effort you put into it yourself.   Most people probably put the minimum in.  There are plenty of reasons for that, which I won't get into.   

You should be able to carry on conversations, as long as the francophone you are talking to speaks relatively slowly and doesn't use a lot of slang.   You will find that many things you learn in the class don't actually apply in the real world.   But honestly, that is to be expected as in class you learn the "proper" way.   So when you are out at some shop and you ask for something a certain way don't get too worked up about it when the franco doesn't immediately understand what you are saying.   Oh, and once you are done the course, your new language abilities may depart your gray matter rather quickly, but it only takes a bit of practice to get back into the swing of things.

It's a long haul, but hang in there.   Besides, where else are you going to draw a full salary while learning a language full-time?   My last piece of advice for SLT: While you are on the course it is your full-time job and you are expected to work hard.   Take that to heart.


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## MattyH (16 Dec 2005)

Do you do any field work or anything like that while you are there? And do you go through the inspections that I'm hearing about for BOTC? Just curious about weekends too. Thanks


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## ProPatria05 (31 Dec 2005)

Field training?? Room inspections?? Are you kidding??  

Seriously, SLT, unless it has changed dramatically since I left there in May '04, is like going to university in a uniform. As was previously stated, you have class from 0800 to 1500 daily, and after that your time is yours to do with whatever you wish. Everyone had booze in their rooms, some smoked in theirs, etc. So, you pretty much have 2 choices:

1) Spend a lot of time in the gym/running/etc, getting in wicked shape. Do a bit of French work in the evenings (and I mean very little - the bulk of what you learn will be in class, that's just the way it is). Have fun on the weekends in Montreal.

2) Don't go to the gym at all, eat all you can in the mess, drink all the time, gain 30 lbs and be a bag of shit for CAP (should you be Army and therefore on your way to Gagetown).

The choice is yours. I don't mean to imply that you are a candidate for choice #2, but it's just a heads up. The rules are slack at SLT. We were only 'required' to do PT twice weekly, and that was simply a sign-in sheet....some people signed and went back upstairs to bed. Also one weak ruck march every Wednesday. I watched too many people turn into fat f**ks in St Jean, only to get their asses kicked in Gagetown. CAP is not hard, but if you're not in shape you will hurt.

For what it's worth....


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## MattyH (13 Jul 2007)

Glad I found this thread again. I'm headed to IAP/BOTC now as of Aug 27, 2007 as I took another year before taking the plunge. In any case, I was wondering what the facilities are like at St. Jean. I was talking to one guy about getting into the Army National Wrestling Team and was wondering if St. Jean had facilities for that, or maybe Judo as its similar. I am looking at a possible round of RFT at St. Jean so I want to make SLT truly count so that I can do my best work in the rest of the phases.


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## navymich (14 Jul 2007)

MatthewHopkins said:
			
		

> I am looking at a possible round of RFT at St. Jean so I want to make SLT truly count so that I can do my best work in the rest of the phases.



If someone could please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that SLT is conducted after you complete IAP/BOTC.  Therefore, I strongly suggest that you first concentrate on finishing that, before making too many plans on the rest of your future.  As for facilities in St. Jean,  this link  should help you out.


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## MattyH (14 Jul 2007)

Airmich, people who are successful in life make long-term plans. They plan for the future and find out all the information. With that said, don't presume to tell me what to do with my career when you were not asked and especially when you don't know about, nor have experience in, the training process I am going through.


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## Drummy (14 Jul 2007)

MatthewHopkins said:
			
		

> Airmich, people who are successful in life make long-term plans. They plan for the future and find out all the information. With that said, don't presume to tell me what to do with my career *when you were not asked * and especially when you don't know about, nor have experience in, the training process I am going through.



Mr Hopkins,

I hope you realize that by posting here and asking questions here, you are asking 14,876 people for their opinion. Therefore, Airmich was asked for her opinion.

Lighten up Mr Hopkins.

Drummy (who never made it past the dizzy heights of Sgt.)

Edited to say that I screwed up the highlighting   Drummy


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## MattyH (14 Jul 2007)

Airmich has not been through IAP/BOTC, is not in the Army, is not on the wrestling team, and chose to weigh in on a few different threads where I have posted despite the fact that she has no experience whatsoever. Just because you can weigh in on a thread doesn't mean you should. A simple rule in life... if you don't know what you're talking about... don't. Watch and learn from people who do, which is why I'm here trying to get some more answers.

How about hearing from someone who has actually gone through the training I am about to go through?


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## MattyH (14 Jul 2007)

Airmich, those who have just gone through the training process (SLT) would know as would anyone who has recently completed BOTC/IAP and SLT. We're not talking about something that is far out there in obscurity.


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## armyvern (14 Jul 2007)

MatthewHopkins said:
			
		

> Airmich has not been through IAP/BOTC, is not in the Army, is not on the wrestling team, and chose to weigh in on a few different threads where I have posted despite the fact that she has no experience whatsoever. Just because you can weigh in on a thread doesn't mean you should. A simple rule in life... if you don't know what you're talking about... don't. Watch and learn from people who do, which is why I'm here trying to get some more answers.
> 
> How about hearing from someone who has actually gone through the training I am about to go through?



Airmich was speaking to the SLT course and when one would go on it. Contrary to what seems to be your opinion, it is not just Officers who undergo SLT, nor is an IAP/BOTP a pre-req for attendance on it for the "other ranks," but completion of BMQ first certainly is.

I warn you not to go about these forums judging people based on what *current* rank/environment is in their profiles either. You will quickly learn, once you have successfully completed your IAP/BOTC, that the CF has a thing called remusters. 

It quite often results in the reduction of ones rank level and the reassignment of their uniform/environment. A search of the forum topics on this subject will show you that. There's even a whole thread on Mich's processing through this in this very forum.

Tread lightly.


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## Pte AJB (14 Jul 2007)

airmich said:
			
		

> Therefore, I strongly suggest that you first concentrate on finishing that, before making too many plans on the rest of your future.





			
				MatthewHopkins said:
			
		

> How about hearing from someone who has actually gone through the training I am about to go through?



Hopkins, I believe Airmich was referring to your PT level. I personally wouldn't worry too much about SLT if RFT were a real possibility. Control the things you can and let the Army worry about all the rest. I’m about to head off for a quick ruck, are you? 

For anyone else, is the SLT course slated directly after BOTC? I have heard that the DEO entry plan may do it later in order to meet career progression requirements, any truth to this? If so, it would be music to my ears.


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## MattyH (14 Jul 2007)

At this point, the SLT is still scheduled after IAP/BOTC though the rumour is that this will change in the near future. A few guys I know are going through BOTC right now and are being told they will do the SLT in January.

ArmyVern, I am well aware that SLT can be taken by anyone in the Forces. My father took it in his 18th year of service. Unless there has been a complete change in policy, Reservists do not get to take the SLT course. I understand there is always that professional friction between NCMs and Officers but it seems to be to the max around here. Perhaps it is because the internet allows people to say things in a manner that would not be acceptable in real-time?


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## armyvern (14 Jul 2007)

MatthewHopkins said:
			
		

> At this point, the SLT is still scheduled after IAP/BOTC though the rumour is that this will change in the near future. A few guys I know are going through BOTC right now and are being told they will do the SLT in January.
> 
> ArmyVern, I am well aware that SLT can be taken by anyone in the Forces. My father took it in his 18th year of service. Unless there has been a complete change in policy, Reservists do not get to take the SLT course. I understand there is always that professional friction between NCMs and Officers but it seems to be to the max around here. Perhaps it is because the internet allows people to say things in a manner that would not be acceptable in real-time?



And there we have it.  This is a privately owned site where rank is respected but does not factor into the weight one should, or should not, have with their posts. Apparently you forget that respect for someones rank and/or skills also works _down_ the Chain of Command. I'm sure you will learn that on your IAP/BOTC as well. A review of all your posts shows that this is not the first time you've managed to slam someone because they were not an "officer" like you, nor to make personal attacks against them.

As this is a private forum, and as it is against site guidelines (the ones you received and agreed to upon joining) to needlessly bandy about your rank and to play the old Reserve vs Regular card, and personal attacks; all of which you have managed to do throughout your posts here on this site.

Professionalism does matter on this site however, you'd be wise to realize that one day, your future subordinates may be reading what's been written right here on this internet forum by you personally. Something tells me they wouldn't be getting a very good impression of their _leader_.

Welcome to the Army.ca warning system. 

Armyvern


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## MattyH (14 Jul 2007)

It has absolutely nothing to do with my rank, considering I am the lowest possible rank in the Forces right now. I mean on a human, interpersonal level... the internet allows people to say things they would not say in real life. I would expect the same level of respect at Wal-Mart, at school, at the bank, etc. When I am asking about my future training, it would help to know what kind of training I'm going through. If it is somehow upsetting to people that I have IAP/BOTC and then SLT... by all means, delete my account and I'll go and get my answers elsewhere.

Ultimately... I'm a person too. If you can't separate the title I don't even have yet from me as a person, feel free, once again, to delete my account altogether. I put this sort of stuff behind me many moons ago.


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## armyvern (14 Jul 2007)

MatthewHopkins said:
			
		

> It has absolutely nothing to do with my rank, considering I am the lowest possible rank in the Forces right now. I mean on a human, interpersonal level... the internet allows people to say things they would not say in real life. I would expect the same level of respect at Wal-Mart, at school, at the bank, etc. When I am asking about my future training, it would help to know what kind of training I'm going through. If it is somehow upsetting to people that I have IAP/BOTC and then SLT... by all means, delete my account and I'll go and get my answers elsewhere.
> 
> Ultimately... I'm a person too. If you can't separate the title I don't even have yet from me as a person, feel free, once again, to delete my account altogether. I put this sort of stuff behind me many moons ago.



We can seperate the title. It is *you* who keeps insisting upon the fact that you are (almost) an officer and who is using it as a base to dismiss any opinions/info provided to you by an "enlisted" member of this site.


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## MattyH (14 Jul 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> We can seperate the title. It is *you* who keeps insisting upon the fact that you are (almost) an officer and who is using it as a base to dismiss any opinions/info provided to you by an "enlisted" member of this site.



If someone has not been through the training I am about to go through, I am not going to take their word for it. I want to hear from people who have actually gone through what I'm about to go through. There have been countless changes to the program in the past few years, which is common knowledge. I "dismiss" people who talk about the training process from 25 years ago as well because so much has changed. My Father, for example, can only give me so much information because he retired 10 years ago. Tons has changed so why would I accept out-dated and possibly wrong information? Even my Recruiters had to do research on questions I have asked and they handle this stuff every single day. Mich had been in the Reserves and then the Regs for one year in the Navy and went the NCM route. I'm going to look for information from people who have direct and recent experience in my field and in my training process because that is where the best information is. In the same way, nobody should take me seriously on matters I don't know about and that is why I don't post answers to questions outside my realm of experience.


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Jul 2007)

MH,

Before you type again. Check your PMs.


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## TangoTwoBravo (14 Jul 2007)

Matthew,

You asked about St-Jean and were given you a link.  You were also offered some friendly advice about taking your training one step at a time.  You can choose to take or leave that advice, but I think that it is rather sound regardless of rank or occupation.  The Army has already thought out the big things of your training progression.  The rest is gravy.  As for dismissing people whose experience is from twenty five years ago I would be careful.  Things have changed alot, but the basic fundamentals aren't all that different in my view.  One of the strengths of this site is access to people with a wide range of experience.  

Cheers,

Mods, 

Please don't think I'm trying to mow your lawn, and please delete if you see fit.


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## MattyH (14 Jul 2007)

OK I am going to take a break from the site. I realize I am coming off as an ass but that is not my intention. I was trying to get information and got pissy and for that I apologize.

I have been given some misguided information from people who probably meant well but didn't know what was going on and it has been rather frustrating, to say the least. I find it difficult to find solid advice on the net from those who have gone the officer route and that is probably because they are making changes all the time. So for those who are/were offended, I apologize as it wasn't my intention to put anyone down.

So I will take a break, read along and keep my mouth shut for a while and once again, if anyone is offended by me, I apologize because that really was not my intention.


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Jul 2007)

Thanks for that MH. I think this can safely be put to bed at this point, with no further comment.


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## muskrat89 (14 Jul 2007)

Now that is a nice change. Thanks for that.


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## xmarcx (15 Jul 2007)

MatthewHopkins said:
			
		

> Airmich, those who have just gone through the training process (SLT) would know as would anyone who has recently completed BOTC/IAP and SLT. We're not talking about something that is far out there in obscurity.



I recently completed BOTC/IAP and am about half way through SLT.

There is a gym of course, it's ok, nothing special, kind of busy, but good equipment. After class you can usually use the big gym if you want to do some crossfit type activities. There are a few classes like CQB you can take. You will have plenty of time to work out, don't worry. Or become fat, either or, people here like that option too 

I realize the mods have already...tended...to this matter but I'd like to say something to my future peer;  granted I've been in the army since coffee break but I'm on the other side of the river you're about to attempt to cross, so let me offer you this piece of advice: calm down, close your mouth, open your ears, and lose the attitude. The new IAP/BOTP course is running around a 50% fail rate and walking around like king **** of **** mountain, especially when someone tries to offer some useful piece of information, is going to send you on a scenic tour of a PRB, PAT platoon, and a long bus ride back to civvie street. Relax, and get used to always being wrong, even the rare time when you're right - it will really help you out in the months to come.


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## PaulD (15 Jul 2007)

warrior vegetable said:
			
		

> I recently completed BOTC/IAP and am about half way through SLT.
> 
> .... There are a few classes like CQB you can take. You will have plenty of time to work out, don't worry. Or become fat, either or, people here like that option too



It's actually called CQC (Close Quarters Combat).  Hand-to-hand stuff.   Don't want people to think we're playing with M4's, breaching charges, and flashbangs you know.


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## MattyH (15 Jul 2007)

PaulD said:
			
		

> It's actually called CQC (Close Quarters Combat).  Hand-to-hand stuff.   Don't want people to think we're playing with M4's, breaching charges, and flashbangs you know.



Is that a separate athletic club or is it tied to training? I started thinking of UFC or MMA when you explained the acronym.


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## shorinsakka (15 Jul 2007)

This is a huge opportunity for me to get my French language training back to up to snuff... I previously had a C in written, an exemption for reading, and a B for spoken... so in seven months I can surely get at least C's if not exemptions for everything.  Thanks to the Canadian tax payer, and a bit of work, I shall soon by fluently bilingual!   

To everyone who is starting from scratch... you can do amazing things in 7 months.  I studied Japanese, a much harder language than French, and in only 3 months of full time study I could hold a basic conversation, and after 6 months discuss a variety of topics with a reasonable level of fluency.  You should be nice and comfortable in French after 7 months, but you WILL have to study and put in the effort if you want to get there.  Being in Quebec, you will have loads of chances to practice... and practice you should.  Just remember you can't learn much by osmosis!


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## klee519 (17 Jul 2007)

what about this French language course? Every regular officer must pass that course for futher promotion?


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## Disenchantedsailor (17 Jul 2007)

its mostly MOC specific but and someone correct me if I'm wrong but it is only a requirement for promotion to Maj.


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## Wookilar (17 Jul 2007)

Not anymore. Well, not technically at least. How the individual Managing Authorities work it remains to be seen. With the new Official Languages act that the Minister and CDS wrangled for us last fall, SL capability is solely linked to position, not rank. It is most closely linked to MOC/MOS-ID, but at a certain level (higher command level) most, if not all, trades require a functional bilingual level.

DEO, SC, CFR, and Civy U ROTP/UTPNCM no longer get automatic SLT as part of their "intial" training. SLT will remain one of the essential "pillars" of RMC.

I've got the link around here somewhere, maybe at work. I'll post it if anyone is interested (and I can find it again). Let me know.

Wook


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## Disenchantedsailor (18 Jul 2007)

Wook, as for DEO/CEOTP types that will not go through RMC how does the policy stand (and before the backlashes start keep in mind I'm on lve with no din access)


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## xmarcx (18 Jul 2007)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> DEO, SC, CFR, and Civy U ROTP/UTPNCM no longer get automatic SLT as part of their "intial" training.



They told us the same thing, and that is exactly what the official policy says...and yet...we are still here  :

Rumour mill has it that there are only one or two more classes to come through on the full program. The only thing that can be confirmed is that contracts are not being renewed and the staff appears to be downsizing.


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## armyvern (18 Jul 2007)

warrior vegetable said:
			
		

> They told us the same thing, and that is exactly what the official policy says...and yet...we are still here  :
> 
> Rumour mill has it that there are only one or two more classes to come through on the full program. The only thing that can be confirmed is that contracts are not being renewed and the staff appears to be downsizing.



I would think though that as you were already in the trg system when the policy changed, the loading messages for you _that are still there_ had already been forecasted, cut, and contracted for. 

I don't think the intention of the policy change was to cancel courses that were already slated for and contracted; that would have been silly to do. Why take you off when they'd have to pay the contractor anyway regardless of whether he had any students?


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## xmarcx (18 Jul 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I don't think the intention of the policy change was to cancel courses that were already slated for and contracted; that would have been silly to do. Why take you off when they'd have to pay the contractor anyway regardless of whether he had any students?



The policy actually changed before my course had even started their IAP. The previous course had been told that they were the last of the full 33 week program that was going to go through the school, so up until the last week of our BOTP we expected to go off to trade training. Your logic is of course correct though, and frankly though many elements of our existence here are a bit of a bag drag, as long as the army is paying for the school to operate we might as well be here learning instead of sitting on holding platoons waiting months for courses.

At least it has been a perfect introduction to military planning for us young officers; a good example of how far down the line you have to plan for and how long you have to wait for all your dominos to fall down.


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## ThainC (3 Aug 2007)

Just graduated IAP/BOTP on Thursday (Yay to me) and will not be going on SLT.  I don't think many other people will be either.  Those that were going: Pilots, Social Workers (And the likes) and another trade I can't seem to remember.  Why were pilots going? They told us it was simply numbers... TOO many pilots to place all at once, so they tossed them all on SLT and will post them as they trickle out of there.

So that's what I know, hope it helps.


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## GAP (4 Jul 2008)

Language watchdog to audit Forces training
The Ottawa Citizen Published: Friday, July 04, 2008
Article Link

Canada's official languages watchdog is about to launch an audit of the Canadian Forces' training procedures after fielding complaints by francophones who failed to get training in their own language. The complaints date back to last year's scathing report by the military ombudsman at the time, Yves Côté, who described as "deeply deplorable" the treatment of francophone cadets at Ontario's CFB Borden. About 1,500 francophone cadets go through what is one of Canada's main training bases every year, but many reported serious difficulties in getting training and services, such as health care, in their own language. The Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages says it also has received complaints. Spokesman Robin Cantin said, "Instead of treating this one complaint at a time, we want to make an inventory of what's available within the Canadian Forces to see if there's a structural problem and we have the full co-operation of the Forces." Today, a call for tender ends to pick the person to lead the audit.
More on link


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## George Wallace (5 Jul 2008)

Will Yves Cote also investigate the availability of services in training and outside of training, for members of the CF, and their families, such as health care, in their own language for Anglophone CF members in Valcatier, Bagotville, St Jean, Farnham, Montreal, etc.?


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## danchapps (5 Jul 2008)

Doubtful. I know when I was at clothing in Borden we had a few times where there was nobody that could serve the French customers to the full availability. Part of it was that they had sent the bilingual Sup Tech to KAF for a short time. I felt bad that I couldn't serve them, and it made me want to get the second language training myself, to better serve.


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## Wingman (8 Nov 2008)

I actually pray that I never get posted to St. Jean again and if I would be forced back there .. I will release.  It was a bad experience for myself and horrific experience for my family.  They were treated with complete and sometimes hostile disrespect although they tried their best to speak French.  Being fairly competent in French, I could easily get around St. Jean but noted that many locals would become argumentative if they found out I was not of the pure laine or de souche; I was actually refused service on more than one occasion because I was "Anglo-military".

In a country of quotas, I guess this can be expected.  I wonder if Newfoundlanders could ask for the same since they make up 10% of the CF


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