# Pilot Equiptment



## foxtwo (24 Jun 2005)

I was just curious about the various items pilots take up with them in their flight suits before they go on a flight or a sortie. Do CF pilots carry pistols with them?


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## Zoomie (25 Jun 2005)

Pistols are not usually carried in Canada by any flight crew - sometimes the Griffon drivers carry them when working for the RCMP.

The following is a list of what I usually carry in the multitude of pockets throughout my flight suit.

1. 4 different types of writing utensils

2. basic calculator

3. whiz wheel - flight computer

4. Abbreviated version of CC-115 SOPs and SMM

5. Emergency checklist for CC-115

6. Blue wedge, issued

7. Issued survival knife

8.  Issued USAF sunglasses

9.  Gerber serrated blade

10.  lip balm

11. kleenex

12.  trident gum

13.  small pad of paper

14.  Issued pager

15.  Issued Pelican flashlight

16. foam earplugs


We don't carry any survival gear as our aircraft is full of it!


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## h3tacco (25 Jun 2005)

I agree with zoomie that 9mm are not usually carried by Cdn aircrew, especially in Canada. But during Op Apollo most Sea King crews, for good or bad, flew with 9mm either jerry rigged to their LPSVs, strapped on their legs or in their helment bags. I don't know for sure but I would also imagine Herc crews flying TAL probably carry a 9mm or at least have crew weapons on the aircraft. I also imagine Griffon and Cf-18 crews wouid carry a personal weapon in theatre.     

      As for other stuff Sea King Pilots/aircrew fly with a helment, LPSV, and immersion suit (most of the year anyway in Halifax), along with all any or all the stuff as listed by Zoomie ie its pretty much up to individual discretion outside of required ALSE gear.

PS I am new to the board but have been lurking for a little while


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## mdh (25 Jun 2005)

As Slim Pickens says in Dr. Strangelove, you could have a good time in Vegas with all that stuff. (You just need to add gold coins and condoms)  ;D


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## Ex-Dragoon (25 Jun 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> I was just curious about the various items pilots take up with them in their flight suits before they go on a flight or a sortie. *Do CF pilots carry pistols with them?*



Should we start calling you Tex?


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## foxtwo (25 Jun 2005)

......  (i dont get it)  .......


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## Inch (26 Jun 2005)

It does vary outside the standard ALSE kit as listed by my two cohorts above. In my flight suit (when I'm not wearing an immersion suit) I carry my wallet, cell phone, wedge, 3 pens of different colours, pencil, pilot's checklist, serrated one-hand opening knife and a white flashlight. The rest of the stuff I carry in my helmet bag, things like a couple grease pencils, my approach plates and charts, issued Russell hunting knife, protractor, whiz wheel, calculator, and a few other things like those listed by Zoomie.

In the winter we're required to carry winter flying pants, mukluks, arctic mitts, toque and parka/winter flying jacket.

Welcome to the board h3tacco, there's a west coast TACCO around here too.


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## aesop081 (26 Jun 2005)

I carry a pad of paper, 2 pens, a pencil, a steadler marker, pelican flashlight, russel knife, my wallet with a bit of cash ( never go flying without money BTW) Wedge, wiz wheel, INS fix sheets   and the issued strobe light.

In my helmet bag i stuff VNC / JNC / WAC, HI and LO charts, GPH 205, apropriate GPH 200, apropriate VFR terminal area chart(s), a compass ( just in case), my spare set of flying gloves, CP-140 aesop checklist, and the CADPAT combat hat.


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## Bograt (26 Jun 2005)

I flew a Sea King for the first time last week. The pilots brought with them a paper towel role. (We had a leak in the cockpit.)


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## WO2 Gubbels (26 Jun 2005)

I am a civvie and have my PPL,

  When I go up, i always bring my sunglasses, my marker pencil, a pencil or 2, a pen, my VNC, required docs, cell phone, flight computer, checklist, the CFS, my camara, and wallet (and my car keys lol). 

             J.G.


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## Sf2 (27 Jun 2005)

Griffon guys will wear a 9mm sometimes during an exercise....but not on a daily basis.

Pens/pencils, field log book, nav ruler, beret, cell phone, checklist, pelican flashlight, survival tool, gerber, and a NVG compat. LED headlamp - sometimes an amoured vest.


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## Bograt (28 Jun 2005)

Surprised no one mentioned the Travel Claim- or is that the nav's job.


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## Zoomie (28 Jun 2005)

Actually - there are only individual claims now - unlike the past when the Nav would carry the bulk claim.

I leave mine at work - where it is safe from destruction.


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## aesop081 (28 Jun 2005)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Actually - there are only individual claims now - unlike the past when the Nav would carry the bulk claim.
> 
> I leave mine at work - where it is safe from destruction.



We still travel on bulk claims.  Did a trip to Kinloss a while ago and the Admin O came with us but usualy someone on the crew handles the bulk claim. At least that ben my experience so far.


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## Kunu (28 Jun 2005)

I'm another civvy pilot, and have started to carry a few of those blue shop towels with me whenever I fly since I inevitably get oil or some other crud on my hands during my preflight inspection.   Besides that, I don't think I tote anything that's not yet been mentioned.


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## Strike (28 Jun 2005)

I always have a roll of TP in my helmet bag.  Never know when you will have to make a quick stop and find a bush.


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## aesop081 (28 Jun 2005)

Strike said:
			
		

> I always have a roll of TP in my helmet bag.   Never know when you will have to make a quick stop and find a bush.



Good idea.

On the CP-140 we are faced with the ulrimate dilema.....we have a fully functioning toilet but if you use it, you piss off the techs ( who have to clean it)  ;D


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## Kunu (28 Jun 2005)

> I always have a roll of TP in my helmet bag.  Never know when you will have to make a quick stop and find a bush.



Hehe, shop towels strike again!  Those things are a close cousin of duct tape and WD-40.


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## 404SqnAVSTeach (2 Jul 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Good idea.
> 
> On the CP-140 we are faced with the ulrimate dilema.....we have a fully functioning toilet but if you use it, you piss off the techs ( who have to clean it)  ;D



Applicable only on TD... On the line the maintainers put the bird to bed.


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## CF-22 Raptor (26 Jul 2005)

Question - In the event that you guys have to eject, what kind of eqipment and supplies do you have when you land on the ground? Just what you have on you suit?


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## Inch (26 Jul 2005)

CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> Question - In the event that you guys have to eject, what kind of eqipment and supplies do you have when you land on the ground? Just what you have on you suit?



No, you have a seat survival kit attached to your torso harness. When you separate from the seat, it stays attached to your butt. In there you will find flares, radio, signal mirror, strobe light, sea dye marker, and a few other things that I can't remember off hand.


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## Bograt (26 Jul 2005)

Inch,

You have to show me where the ejection handle is on a Sea King.


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## mover1 (26 Jul 2005)

How do you ground a CP-140.


Break the toaster.

In Aviano during Allied Force i observed the F-18 pilots usually with a pistol. And piss bags.


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## Inch (26 Jul 2005)

Bograt said:
			
		

> Inch,
> 
> You have to show me where the ejection handle is on a Sea King.



Smart ass, shouldn't you be doing OPME's instead of surfing army.ca?


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## Bograt (26 Jul 2005)

Shouldn't you be getting your rest before flying.... 

I mean yes Sir.

Where was I , ahh yes Land Force Command.............


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## Inch (26 Jul 2005)

Bograt said:
			
		

> Shouldn't you be getting your rest before flying....
> 
> I mean yes Sir.
> 
> Where was I , ahh yes Land Force Command.............



Ah, defense management, maybe I should be doing your OPME to put me back to sleep. Did I mention that if you come flying tonight, you won't have to go to work until after lunch tomorrow?


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## Good2Golf (1 Aug 2005)

Bograt said:
			
		

> Shouldn't you be getting your rest before flying....
> 
> I mean yes Sir.
> 
> Where was I , ahh yes Land Force Command.............



Ahhh....an "LFC" pup?  

...yessiree....back when dinos roamed the earth and FMC ruled over the land.....  ;D

Foxtwo...you'll find quite a bit of variation from aircrew of one aircraft type to another.  Most Sea King and Griffon guys wear most of what they take, (less the large winter-time "B-25" kit) on their back.  Work by the rule that, "You only have what you get out with on your back!"  We don't have the luxury of deciding whether we'll face the wrath of the ground servicing guy for using the toilet that Mr. Lockheed put in the darned aircraft for that very purpose... ??? WTF?  Then again, we can just turn off Mode-C and do a 3L...land, leak and lift-off...  ;D

Probably safe to say that most deployed Griffy guys pack when in theatre.  Future spots for helo guys/gals deployed may also include C7A2 or C8 in addition to the 9mm (or P226 in some cases).

In addition to other stuff mentioned, I would have a good fist full of green, white and IR chem sticks and about 1kg of chocolate in the form of coated granola bars, eat-more bars (...that and a few 100g of choccy-coated expresso beans to help me get to sleep...makes me a force to be recconed with whilst playing "flashlight wars" in the mod tent late at night.)

Cheers,
Duey


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## aesop081 (1 Aug 2005)

Duey said:
			
		

> Then again, we can just turn off Mode-C and do a 3L...land, leak and lift-off...   ;D



LOL...i saw that done when i was on OJT at 403 sqn........but the other pilot decided to pull on th collective just ever so slightly !!  ;D


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## CF-22 Raptor (1 Aug 2005)

About that survival kit attached to your torso harness when you eject, does that include a handgun and a clip or two of ammo?


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## Inch (1 Aug 2005)

CF-22 Raptor said:
			
		

> About that survival kit attached to your torso harness when you eject, does that include a handgun and a clip or two of ammo?



No, that survival kit is only on ejection seat aircraft of course, including the Harvard II, Hawk and Tutor, none of which would require you to carry a 'gat. I can't say for the Hornet since I've never been in one of them, but I have my doubts that they carry heat while flying in Cold Lake.


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## Bograt (5 Aug 2005)

I use trolleys. Filing cabinets are heavy.

Where was I, oh yes, Stage 4 National Mobilization...................


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## aesop081 (5 Aug 2005)

Bograt said:
			
		

> I use trolleys. Filing cabinets are heavy.
> 
> Where was I, oh yes, Stage 4 National Mobilization...................



You qualified mahogany bomber yet ?


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## Inch (5 Aug 2005)

Bograt said:
			
		

> I use trolleys. Filing cabinets are heavy.
> 
> Where was I, oh yes, Stage 4 National Mobilization...................



That was some skillful trolley flying by the way.


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## foxtwo (23 Dec 2005)

After watching Black Hawk Down, I would kinda want a few C8's and about a million mags in my Griffin... :-\


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## Ex-Dragoon (23 Dec 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> After watching Black Hawk Down, I would kinda want a few C8's and about a million mags in my Griffin... :-\



ummm OK GI Joe.... :


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## foxtwo (23 Dec 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> ummm OK GI Joe.... :



Did you not see the movie  :-\ (after the bird goes down, like hundreds of rebels are trying to kill the crew...)


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## Good2Golf (24 Dec 2005)

foxtwo said:
			
		

> Did you not see the movie  :-\ (after the bird goes down, like hundreds of rebels are trying to kill the crew...)



I spoke with Mike Durant in fall of '94 down in Ft Campbell...interesting chatting with him.  Lots of first hand stuff about how the whole deal went down.  His book, "In the Company of Hero's" is an interesting read...

Cheers,
Duey


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Dec 2005)




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## Sheerin (24 Dec 2005)

okay i know this is way off topic...

But I love that 'owned' icon.  That so made my evening last night, thanks Recce.


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## foxtwo (24 Dec 2005)

Duey said:
			
		

> I spoke with Mike Durant in fall of '94 down in Ft Campbell...interesting chatting with him.  Lots of first hand stuff about how the whole deal went down.  His book, "In the Company of Hero's" is an interesting read...
> 
> Cheers,
> Duey


Really!! That is so cool. I never knew he wrote a book. I'll probably check it out...


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## Good2Golf (24 Dec 2005)

He told me that the lowest point was when he ran out of ammo in the shack, and Randy (Shugart, the Delta operator) wasn't with him any more....everything after was a blur, he said...  

The book is a good read...perhaps a bit puffed up in some places, but who am I to judge...for sure he earned "the t-shirt".

Cheers,
Duey


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## foxtwo (24 Dec 2005)

Again, wow. But what do you mean by this?



			
				Duey said:
			
		

> The book is a good read...perhaps a bit puffed up in some places, but who am I to judge...for sure he earned "the t-shirt".


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## Good2Golf (25 Dec 2005)

...a little bit of embelishing things a bit...but in Mike's case, I'd give him that as a bit of creative license to provide the overall flavour to what went on...some of the other Nightstalkers rib him a bit (in a purely good natured way) about his exploits...as only other guys who flew with him that day can do.   If you read the book, there may be some parts where you go, "Hmmmmm?"  Hard to describe but folks generally know when there's a little bit of stretching going on...like when "Andy McNab" wrote about his exploits as an SAS Commando in "Bravo Two Zero".  Wrote some (heck, a lot by all accounts) of stuff that was a stretch of what happened...I know because a good firend of mine was the RAF Chinook pilot who flew Bravo Two Zero into the insertion point and attempted the ex-fil 24 hrs later when it was clear that everything had headed south...

Cheers,
Duey


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## goler (28 Jan 2006)

hornet dudes take a 9mm when they're flying up north... polar bears and all

if you ask me, probably best to keep the last one for yourself.. you're probably going to be dealing with one pissed off bear


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## childs56 (29 Jan 2006)

Ha a 9mm against polar bears. When I worked Civie side some of our pilots carried 357mags to deal with the uneventfull landing in the middle of no where. All they said was if they had room for a rifle they would have carried it. The hand gun is only a very last resort and a shamefull one at that.

Our pilots should always carry a pistol on them. Train for war, fight for war.


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## Zoomie (29 Jan 2006)

CTD said:
			
		

> Our pilots should always carry a pistol on them. Train for war, fight for war.



I concur...  I need a pistol from time to time, the lunch lady in Sandspit gives me glaring looks...


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## childs56 (29 Jan 2006)

Sorry I should have been clearer on that one. Tactical pilots should carry weapons.


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## aesop081 (29 Jan 2006)

CTD said:
			
		

> Sorry I should have been clearer on that one. Tactical pilots should carry weapons.



Just pilots ?


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## Zoomie (29 Jan 2006)

A 9mm is a useless weapon for fighting off the nasty creatures found up north.  It would be more useful to the crew to just carry one round.

Our SARtechs go into wilderness hotspots carrying folding-stock rifles - painted orange of course!


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## Ex-Dragoon (29 Jan 2006)

Ruger M77 in 30.06 aren't they?


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## childs56 (29 Jan 2006)

Any Aircrew associated with Tactical AirCraft. Should have been even more clear. Along


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## aesop081 (29 Jan 2006)

CTD said:
			
		

> Any Aircrew associated with Tactical AirCraft. Should have been even more clear. Along



what do you consider a tactical aircraft ?  ;D


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## childs56 (29 Jan 2006)

Well any A/C used in tactical setting that we have in our inventory that is not directly sourced out to SAR resources. In our inventory I would take that to be the F18, Aurora, Sea King, Griffon, Herc (when not supporting Direct SAR). 

 For example if a Herc is sourced out to a SAR unit then that crew would not require wpns as a basic load. If that A/C is sourced out to support the ARMY or other over seas mission then the crew would be equipped with personal weapons. 

Fight to train, train to fight. 

Some may disagree.Your entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I also think that the Air force should be able to deploy fighters for 6 months or more in support of the military's mission's over seas That is my opinion.


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## Laps (29 Jul 2009)

CTD said:
			
		

> Well any A/C used in tactical setting that we have in our inventory that is not directly sourced out to SAR resources. In our inventory I would take that to be the F18, Aurora, Sea King, Griffon, Herc (when not supporting Direct SAR).
> 
> For example if a Herc is sourced out to a SAR unit then that crew would not require wpns as a basic load. If that A/C is sourced out to support the ARMY or other over seas mission then the crew would be equipped with personal weapons.
> 
> ...



I'm a Griffy driver.  The topic seems to come back to side arms, so here's my experience.  We carry sidearms overseas on deployment.  No need for more details on this.  In Canada, we sometimes carry them on domestic operations but it is really the exception rather than the norm.  During exercises, we sometimes carry them, but without any rounds (i.e.: every one got blanks but we only get to shout "bang bang" as required).  The reality of carrying a sidearm is that it's a pain in the arse.  

Imagine crews flying and stopping somewhere for fuel, say Kamloops airport.  All of a sudden in becomes a big issue if civilians see aircrew with pistols around an airport.  I know you can say that the RCMP guys are there with guns too... but somehow, Joe Canuck doesn't understand that their beloved Canadian Peacekeeper Corp would have a need to "pack" year round in Canada.  Then you got to secure those things every where you go during an overnight stop, whether planned or not and that too is a huge pain.

So even though I am a huge gun-lover with a closet full of guns, when in uniform, I don't seek opportunities to lug around a piece of WWII and Korea history on my hip.

Train as you fight stuff... yes, but there's very little training experience to be gained in carrying 5 pounds of metal while flying.  Make that 5 pounds of liability...

What else do I carry...

Pretty much all what was listed above (except the Top Gun issues glasses) plus:

- TP
- roll of gun tape
- spare pair of gloves
- rain jacket
- squadron ball cap
- 1-2 bottles water
- couple Granola bars
- couple of survival foil blankets

That all fits in the helmet bag (which ironically is very seldom used to carry my helmet)

Experience taught me that we know when we leave, not always sure about when we'll come back.  This is especially true in the helo world.

Along that line, for any trips away from the training area, I also bring a zip lock with a spare set of underwear and a small shaving kit.


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## belka (29 Jul 2009)

Back from the dead i see. 



			
				Laps said:
			
		

> All of a sudden in becomes a big issue if civilians see aircrew with pistols around an airport.  I know you can say that the RCMP guys are there with guns too... but somehow, Joe Canuck doesn't understand that their beloved Canadian Peacekeeper Corp would have a need to "pack" year round in Canada.



I would believe that when a civy sees someone in a military uniform, they always think of them being armed, being with a pistol, rifle, whatever. I know that there isn't a need for CF members to carry around a gun within the Canadian public, but there shouldn't be any doubt as to why someone in a military uniform is carrying a personal weapon.


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## Laps (29 Jul 2009)

belka said:
			
		

> I would believe that when a civy sees someone in a military uniform, they always think of them being armed, being with a pistol, rifle, whatever. I know that there isn't a need for CF members to carry around a gun within the Canadian public, but there shouldn't be any doubt as to why someone in a military uniform is carrying a personal weapon.



From personal experience, nope... try stopping for fuel at a small airfield with a gun on your hip and you'll get odd looks and questions that sometimes require creative answers (for OPSEC purposes...)


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