# PT at BMQ



## Alpheus (19 Sep 2009)

How does morning PT at basic training break down  What do you do during a typical week?  Do you go running 2-3 times and hit the gym the rest?  Just wondering because I want to modify my routine before I get there.

Thanks.


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## PMedMoe (19 Sep 2009)

Probably a run, a ruck march, circuit training, the gym, maybe a sport here and there.


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## freakerz (19 Sep 2009)

It mainly depends on your staff.

Personally, I currently have 2 Vandoo's and when they do the PT, we run 6.4km + chin ups + push ups + sit ups + dips. (they try to make us vomit) On top of it, one is an Airborne and he doesn't walk when he's outside or at Farnham, so we run to drill or other buildings... and we're going to run at Farnham  :threat:

When cooks do it, it's usually a small run, some push ups and sit ups.

As for navy staff, usually they are comparable to Vandoo's, but they vary the exercises (flabber kicks, squats, push ups, chin ups, dips, jumping jacks, and more).

Overall, PT is not a muscular training session, you can get fitter if you're fat (like me). PT are to work on team work, making sure everyone stick together and finish together rather than making small groups and sprinting to the end. The PSP classes are there for that, you get several gym classes of 80-120mins with upper, lower and overall programs. Their circuits is a lot of fun and very demanding for all types of recruits, this is where you push yourself hard.

As for sports, most staff won't do them to not injure their recruits.. I've met people at the MIR who got twisted ankles playing soccer on week-ends, or someone jumped on their ankle during basketball, etc...

You do 3 ruck marches then your 13km at Farnham.


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## PMedMoe (19 Sep 2009)

freakerz said:
			
		

> You do 3 ruck marches then your 13km at Farnham.



What?  No six or eight week work up program?   :


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## Alpheus (20 Sep 2009)

freakerz said:
			
		

> we run 6.4km + chin ups + push ups + sit ups + dips. (they try to make us vomit)



Everyday?  Damn, I guess I'll have to beef up my running schedule.


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## freakerz (20 Sep 2009)

Not every day, on average (up to week 8) you do 3 PT per week.

I forgot to mention the pool classes, if you pass the swim test, those classes kick your ass too... the PSP classes are where you'll get fitter.


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## Flap Jack (20 Sep 2009)

I was actually also curious about this as I have shin splints and was wondering if they did running everyday. Mind you I'm going for the Reserve's so I assume its a bit different.


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## Alpheus (20 Sep 2009)

freakerz said:
			
		

> Not every day, on average (up to week 8 ) you do 3 PT per week.



Phew.  And after week 8, I assume you'd do less since you're at Farnham and in the field, right?


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## Flasbang (20 Sep 2009)

Not really. Though each courses instructors have some say in our the course is ran for that platoon. For example, when I went through during our time in Farnham we ruck marched everywhere we went. I had friends go through after me and none of them ruck marched. I would say there is less PT but it doesn't mean your not still physically working hard and it doesn't mean there is going to be no PT.


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## Alpheus (20 Sep 2009)

Gotcha.  :nod:


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## aesop081 (20 Sep 2009)

Alpheus said:
			
		

> Phew.  And after week 8, I assume you'd do less since you're at Farnham and in the field, right?



ladies and gents, i give you......our future leaders.

God help us all.


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## Flap Jack (21 Sep 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> ladies and gents, i give you......our future leaders.
> 
> God help us all.



Hey come on, he's just nervous haha. Then again who wouldn't be for BMQ.


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## Neolithium (21 Sep 2009)

Flap Jack said:
			
		

> Then again who wouldn't be for BMQ.


Those lovable people who VR 3 days in?  :tsktsk:


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## Lavitz (21 Sep 2009)

Neolithium said:
			
		

> Those lovable people who VR 3 days in?  :tsktsk:



I wouldn't worry about that anymore. When I swore in on Sept 8th, they made us sign something that says we are not allowed to VR until after the first 5 weeks.


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## Alpheus (21 Sep 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> ladies and gents, i give you......our future leaders.
> 
> God help us all.



Ha Ha.  I just think making new recruits run 6.4km + chin ups + push ups + sit ups + dips 5 times a week might be a tad much.
Or is there something wrong with trying to get some idea of what I'll be doing at BMQ?


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## aesop081 (21 Sep 2009)

Alpheus said:
			
		

> Ha Ha.  I just think making new recruits run 6.4km + chin ups + push ups + sit ups + dips 5 times a week might be a tad much.



Well, at this point, CFLRS isnt worrying about what you think.


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## Neolithium (21 Sep 2009)

I'd say listen to the good folks around here, there is a great deal of good advice that you can find.  Also, I found it quite interesting and helpful to watch Basic Up.  If I remember correctly you can find all the episodes here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/CanadianArmyNews


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## Flasbang (21 Sep 2009)

Alpheus said:
			
		

> Ha Ha.  I just think making new recruits run 6.4km + chin ups + push ups + sit ups + dips 5 times a week might be a tad much.
> Or is there something wrong with trying to get some idea of what I'll be doing at BMQ?


You get used to it. You do push ups or go for runs between classes too so you just get sore and stronger. Just make sure you stretch on your own time and you'll be fine.[


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2009)

Lavitz said:
			
		

> I wouldn't worry about that anymore. When I swore in on Sept 8th, they made us sign something that says we are not allowed to VR until after the first 5 weeks.



Ya because it is MUCH better to spend 4 weeks and 2 days (weekends not included) with someone who isn't motivated, bitches and moans the whole time and gets everyone else in crap.

It is also really fun for course staff to administer and babysit the non-hackers too.


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## Neolithium (21 Sep 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Ya because it is MUCH better to spend 4 weeks and 2 days (weekends not included) with someone who isn't motivated, bitches and moans the whole time and gets everyone else in crap.
> 
> It is also really fun for course staff to administer and babysit the non-hackers too.


I'm curious to see how many individuals would stay after that though- undoubtedly some quit early because of the culture shock of moving to a disciplined military life.  Instead this might provide enough time for them to realize it's not that bad (For lack of a better term), and give them a second wind and new determination to graduate BMQ.  This is my theory anyway, as for how many actually do get a new lease on military life...no way I can assume anything with a degree of certainty.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2009)

Alpheus said:
			
		

> Ha Ha.  I just think making new recruits run 6.4km + chin ups + push ups + sit ups + dips 5 times a week might be a tad much.
> Or is there something wrong with trying to get some idea of what I'll be doing at BMQ?



Really?  PT, for the record, stands for Physical Training, not Personal Time.

Perhaps a comparison to some other miltary will open your eyes up some.  Why not take a look at Recruit Fitness Standards in the US Air Force.  So, in their Air Force, they say a recruit should be able to do 34 pushups BEFORE reporting for Basic Training.  How many must a CF recruit do to avoid being punted and set to Chubby Patrol for up to 90 days?  I think it was *4* the last time I heard.  4!!

Mindsets like yours are what is continually lowering our already low standards.


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## Alpheus (21 Sep 2009)

This is nice.  I make a post expressing relief that new recruits aren't dropped off the deep end as soon as they start training, and I get called lazy.  Nice.

I think it is common knowledge that the average civilian is not as fit as they would've been 20 years ago, let alone compared to the average service member.  So it strikes me as potentially unwise to dramatically increase their level of physical exercise so quickly, as it would likely discourage some recruits and increase the likelihood of injury.  I thought one of the principles of physical exercise is to gradually increase the workload as your physical condition improves.

As to the remarks about me, you don't know me.  You don't know anything about my personality, my leadership qualities or my physical condition.  Making sweeping generalizations, while knowing absolutely zip about me, comes across and rude and insulting.
I am in very good physical shape, and do not believe I will have any major difficulties with PT that has been described in this thread.  And I am certainly not lazy.

To those who answer my query in a polite and concise manner, thank you.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2009)

No.  I quoted what you said.  You said you thought PT 5 times a week was a bit much.  From experience, the people who express concerns about that amount of PT are the ones who can't DO that amount of PT.

No one made remarks about you, other than your mindset is what got us to the low level of PT we have now, which is true IMO.

If PT discourages some people from joining the army, well then those people probably would be better off in the Produce section at Sobeys.  

If people know about the level of PT in the Forces and intend to join, well they should get off their ass and get in shape now, shouldn't they?  

If someone shows up for Firefighter school and is weak ball of blubber, will they last?  RCMP Depot?  Exactly where do we draw the line at the minimal standard when it comes to military physical fitness training?  If we go any lower at CFLRS, the fuckin' PSP staff will be doing the PT tests FOR the recruits.

*Pain is only a sign that you are still alive*


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2009)

I knew I forgot something....

On top of all that PT, there is LOTS of stairs at the Mega to climb X amount of times a day, plus drill class, plus marching everywhere, on top of the morning PT sessions with the Crse staff AND PT classes with the PSP folks.

So, if you thought the stuff you quoted was alot, it really was just SOME of the physical activity that goes on there day to day, week to week, course after course...lots are making it thru the system and the ones that aren't are the ones that shouldn't be.


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## Flasbang (21 Sep 2009)

Pain is weakness leaving the body. 

PT shouldn't be a concern for anyone regardless of your physical fitness level when signing up for BMQ. If you fail the PT test you'll go to a "special" training program and get in shape there. If you barely make it and get injured you'll go to PAT (personnel awaiting training) platoon where you'll wait until you get better then get loaded on another course. You can spend that time strengthening the non-injured parts of your body.


			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I knew I forgot something....
> 
> On top of all that PT, there is LOTS of stairs at the Mega to climb X amount of times a day, plus drill class, plus marching everywhere, on top of the morning PT sessions with the Crse staff AND PT classes with the PSP folks.
> 
> So, if you thought the stuff you quoted was alot, it really was just SOME of the physical activity that goes on there day to day, week to week, course after course...lots are making it thru the system and the ones that aren't are the ones that shouldn't be.



Just wait for the day you get all your kit and have it carry it all upstairs to your room and get back and form up in 10 minutes... or 5.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Sep 2009)

Flashbang said:
			
		

> Pain is weakness leaving the body.
> 
> PT shouldn't be a concern for anyone regardless of your physical fitness level when signing up for BMQ. If you fail the PT test you'll go to a "special" training program and get in shape there. If you barely make it and get injured you'll go to PAT (personnel awaiting training) platoon where you'll wait until you get better then get loaded on another course. You can spend that time strengthening the non-injured parts of your body.



See this is the WRONG message to send to people IMO.  And things have changed.  Recruits now must meet a (very low) minimum to go onto the RFT/Warrior Platoon/whatever it is called now IIRC.  If you can't do the very VERY low minimum, home you go.  

Now, IMO, those who can't do a single pushup should never had made it thru selection at the CFRC but I won't go down that road, as it isn't looking like we will correct the mistake we made several years ago by removing the PT test at the CFRC level.


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## owa (21 Sep 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> See this is the WRONG message to send to people IMO.  And things have changed.  Recruits now must meet a (very low) minimum to go onto the RFT/Warrior Platoon/whatever it is called now IIRC.  If you can't do the very VERY low minimum, home you go.
> 
> Now, IMO, those who can't do a single pushup should never had made it thru selection at the CFRC but I won't go down that road, as it isn't looking like we will correct the mistake we made several years ago by removing the PT test at the CFRC level.



I honestly can't think of a good reason to remove the PT test at the CFRC level.  So I fully agree with you there.

Any insight as to why that happened?


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## Flasbang (21 Sep 2009)

I'm just saying don't give up if you fail the first time. I'm not saying don't prepare yourself just that it shouldn't be your biggest concern. Too many people quit or just give up if they don't do as well as other people or if they fail the PT test thinking there is no hope.


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## lennoj (21 Sep 2009)

Alpheus said:
			
		

> I thought one of the principles of physical exercise is to gradually increase the workload as your physical condition improves.



True, and this was answered in this reply - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89246/post-876347.html#msg876347

In one of the episodes it shows how the army mitigates pt when some people are fast, and some are not. You turn around as a group on your run to pick up those who do not do PT on their own time(in most cases not trying to slam all the slow ones) then you finish as a group. As time progresses everyones levels of fitness increase because they are running at a faster pace and continually turning around to pick up their teammates or they are working their butts off to keep up.

Another episode shows how the candidates start the obstacle course with minimal FFO and builds up to doing it in full FFO and with their C7.



> I am in very good physical shape, and do not believe I will have any major difficulties with PT that has been described in this thread.  And I am certainly not lazy.



Great shape or not, you should feel like you are about to vomit after PT, or atleast the way we were taught on crossfit. You have to push yourself beyond your mental barriers and find out what your body can actually handle. And most of all inspire and motivate your teammates to do the same, shin splints is not a reason to take it easy. Everybody else is sore as well 

As per the discussion regarding the Fitness Test at the CFRC level, I am too new to know of it when it was around in the Reg.F but in the P.Res world it exists, and should still exist in both components of the CF.


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## HItorMiss (21 Sep 2009)

See here for some one who dedicates himself to PT, do you think he complains about 5 days a week being a little much?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89291.0.html

In the end you are either ready for the challenge or you aren't and if you aren't and you can't motivate yourself to get ready then don't apply. It is really that simple.


I use the term "YOU" in a generic sense and in no way am I singleling out the originator of the this thread.


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## PMedMoe (21 Sep 2009)

owa said:
			
		

> I honestly can't think of a good reason to remove the PT test at the CFRC level.  So I fully agree with you there.
> 
> Any insight as to why that happened?



Lack of facilities and/or space and/or personnel.



			
				NightSins said:
			
		

> Great shape or not, you should feel like you are about to vomit after PT, or atleast the way we were taught on crossfit.



Really??   :


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## gcclarke (21 Sep 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Lack of facilities and/or space and/or personnel.



Meh, when I did mine, they had contracted it out to the YMCA across the street. I could buy the excuse if it was merely a budgetary issue, but frankly I think that a heck of a lot more money is spent "training" personnel who never graduate BM(O)Q than could possibly be spent outsourcing fitness tests.

I suspect the real reason is that someone figured that they could increase recruitment intake by letting people get shipped off to St-Jean and bringing them up to par rather than turning them away at the CFRC, even if it is a heck of a lot more expensive.


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## owa (21 Sep 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Lack of facilities and/or space and/or personnel.
> 
> Really??   :



Thanks for the speedy response.  I'll avoid debating the topic here, but I will add that I find it weird that they'd rather shoot people out to Basic without fully knowing if they can even do Basic.  Seems like a rather expensive risk.  Oh well.  So be it.


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## aesop081 (21 Sep 2009)

Did someone say crossfit ?

I still cant beleive we won wars before crossfit.


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## PMedMoe (21 Sep 2009)

I'll just add that I agree with the last three posts.   :nod:


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## gcclarke (21 Sep 2009)

Yup, it is an expensive risk. But our lack of personnel is currently more dire than our lack of funding. This is of course, subject to change.


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## Flasbang (22 Sep 2009)

Gym Jones is roughly 700 times better than crossfit.


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## gcclarke (22 Sep 2009)

Meh, Mark Twight (The founder of Gym Jones) started out as a Crossfit trainer, and the methods he currently uses are very similar. The main difference as far as I can tell are increased volume of training, but it's hard to tell because his website has, since last year, charged $500/year to access any of its new content.


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