# History of naval parades done ashore



## Sailing Instructor (29 Jan 2006)

Can anyone here tell me the history and rules of the navy's ceremonial parades that are conducted not aboard a ship, but ashore?  I have participated in a grad ceremony at VENTURE and various sea cadet parades (which I have assumed somewhat followed naval tradition) but I cannot find any definitive sources of info on parade formats.

Specifically, I am wondering if the naval parade follows an army parade, with only minor changes.  Or has the navy built its own tradition that really changes the parade format.  What, for example, was the protocol at pre-unification HMCS CORNWALLIS?, which I think would give good insight into the entire RCN's protocol.


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## who980 (30 Jan 2006)

Naval parades are referred to as Divisions.  Basically this is the same ceremony that is perfomed onboard ship, but to a greater degree.  A few places to look for more information might be The Navy's Manual of Ceremony and the CF Manual of Drill and Ceremonial which may expand on the differences between Army and Navy parades.

I wouldnt be able to tell you if there was a change in protocol after unification of the Forces in 68 but I doubt that there was any.  I beleive that Naval Ceremonial Divisions are the same as they have been for ages...

Hope this helps

Ryan


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## Sailing Instructor (31 Jan 2006)

See, the thing is that VENTURE's grad parade was a mix of the navy and the army style (minus marchpast).   And all my sea cadet parades were essentially army style with Coy Chiefs rather than CSMs and still retained the 'Gunnery Instructor' as the drill instructor rather than the buffer (which was old navy practice).

Also, are colours commonly done whilst the ship's coy is parading (I know divisions would be separate), or is the parade kept separate as it is a special event for grad or change of command, &c.?  Sea cadets combined the two, so everyone could have their first sweat of the day at 0800.

The Sunset Ceremony is the only singularly naval and ashore ceremony that seems to exist.  According to the drill manual, it stems from 'naval battalion and naval field battery drills,' which would indicate the navy's history of land-drills is quite a bit more extensive than what I have been able to find.

PS. Looked through both the drill and ceremonial manuals and even old copies of similar pubs.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of history written on drill.


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## NavyShooter (31 Jan 2006)

The best people to ask if you seriously want to know more about Navy Drill is the Seamanship Division, Drill Shed at CFB Halifax.  That's ALL they do.

NavyShooter


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## who980 (31 Jan 2006)

When I was on my OSQAB our grad parade was just our 20 person class, our instructor, and the Sea Division Chief.  It occured in the afternoon.  Every time we do hands fall in or divisions aboard the ship, or divisions at the school, it always includes the ceremony of Colours.  

As well, you might want to research the Royal Navy's traditions of Parades and Colours etc... as that is where we get our traditions from.



			
				NavyShooter said:
			
		

> The best people to ask if you seriously want to know more about Navy Drill is the Seamanship Division, Drill Shed at CFB Halifax.  That's ALL they do.



As well, there is also the Naden Drill Shed at CFB Esquimalt (Naden) Canadian Forces Fleet School Esquimalt.

Ryan


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## Sailing Instructor (1 Feb 2006)

Thanks for the suggestion of the drill sheds, I shall talk to them when I attend MARS 3 & 4.

Speaking of RN drill, are there any manuals of it floating around DND libraries or the internet?  Or RCN drill manuals?  I should think that these would definitely tell me what drill is pure navy and what is not, since they haven't been 'adulterated' by a unified drill.  (Or perhaps the modern RN has?)


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## 3rd Herd (1 Feb 2006)

Separate drill procedures for cavalry, artillery, infantry and others (except for equipment drill) were replaced by all-arms drill early in the 20th Century as the changed conditions of war gradually divorced tactics from barrack routine.



The foot and arms drill of the Royal Canadian Navy, Canadian Army and Royal Canadian Air Force were generally similar, being derived from the same tactical practices. When the three services were amalgamated in 1968, evolution continued by blending the drill detail back into one.

Drill is still used routinely to move troops in an orderly and efficient manner. It also forms the basis of the precise manoeuvres used in military displays and ceremonies (A-AD-201-000/AG-000 - Canadian Forces Manual of Drill and Ceremonial).http://www.forces.ca/hr/dhh/heritage_traditions/engraph/purpose_drill_e.asp?cat=2


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## Neill McKay (1 Feb 2006)

Sailing Instructor said:
			
		

> Speaking of RN drill, are there any manuals of it floating around DND libraries or the internet?  Or RCN drill manuals?  I should think that these would definitely tell me what drill is pure navy and what is not, since they haven't been 'adulterated' by a unified drill.  (Or perhaps the modern RN has?)



Such manuals do exist, but I've never seen one.  It might be something to watch for on eBay, or check in a naval library.  (There's a naval museum somewhere in Alberta, Calgary I believe, that is or was working towards a complete collection of BRCNs.)

Notwithstanding the "it's always been about the same" line in the 201 there were some distinctive features of naval drill.  (Minor variations in sword-handling persist today; VENTURE publishes a manual of naval sword drill that is a bit more detailed than the 201.)


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## Sailing Instructor (1 Feb 2006)

Ah yes, VENTURE's sword drill angered me when I was first taught it because the army (or CF) sword drill in the manual was easier (no flipping the scabbard around, etc.).  Also, they tried to combine this drill with lifting one's feet, which makes it hard to keep the tip of the scabbard against one's outstep.  But I digress; I learned to like naval sword drill because I understand that tradition is more important than whether I am immediately good at something.


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## Gino (10 Feb 2006)

Sailing Instructor said:
			
		

> See, the thing is that VENTURE's grad parade was a mix of the navy and the army style (minus marchpast).   And all my sea cadet parades were essentially army style with Coy Chiefs rather than CSMs and still retained the 'Gunnery Instructor' as the drill instructor rather than the buffer (which was old navy practice).
> 
> Also, are colours commonly done whilst the ship's coy is parading (I know divisions would be separate), or is the parade kept separate as it is a special event for grad or change of command, &c.?  Sea cadets combined the two, so everyone could have their first sweat of the day at 0800.
> 
> ...


Interesting question and at the root of it is where did naval drill come from in the first place.  There has been very little written on the subject and what I know I have had to piece together over the years.  Obviously, in the days of the wooden sailing ships of the RN, the kind of drill that would be conducted was sail drill and gunnery drill.  These, of course, did not involve the type of parade drill that we know today, and there would have been little requirement for this other than mustering watches and hands for work which probably only involving forming into a more or less orderly gaggle.  With the rapid technological advances of the mid-1800s and the conversion from sail to steam and electrical systems, the RN had the need to establish training establishments ashore.  A requirement would then have arisen to be able to muster and move large bodies of seamen in an orderly manner.  This is also the period when an official seaman's uniform was established (1857).  Thus was born naval drill which was largely derived from that practised by the army, with certain alterations for shipboard use.

The RCN inherited its drill pretty much unaltered from the RN.  Due to the origin of RN drill, it therefore did not differ substantially from that of the Canadian Army or RCAF.  Unfortunately, the RCN Manual of Drill and Ceremonial (BRCN 3058) explains different platoon, company and battalion drill very much like the CFP 201 of today, so it is difficult to say exactly what formats were normally employed for divisions at RCN shore establishments.  I think it is safe to surmise that the practises you see at places like HMCS QUADRA pretty much follow the RCN pattern without a great deal of alteration.  This is what I also saw at the Esquimalt and Halifax Fleet Schools in my earlier days in the navy.  Guards and bands were paraded and the normal formation would have been battalion in mass (ie companies in column of platoons).  March pasts would have been conducted by moving off in column of threes and then marching past in close column of companies.  Unfortunately today, you rarely see march pasts in the navy, or if you do it's in namby-pamby column of route.  At the end of division, platoons would have been doubled off.

WRT sword drill, the manual that VENTURE has is a bit of a bastardization between navy and CF.  Blame it on creeping "green machinism".

I am currently working on converting BRCN 3058 into a pdf document and when that is done I will try to make it available.  If one of the naval museums actually has all of these BRCNs, they should be doing the same.

If you have any more specific questions, I will be happy to try and answer them.


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## Sailing Instructor (11 Feb 2006)

It's good to hear that you are trying to make this BRCN manual available, it should be interesting.  It's also nice to know that the parades I did as a sea cadet were more or less the same as the RCN parades.


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## Sailing Instructor (15 Feb 2006)

I found a copy of 'Royal Naval Handbook Of Parade And Rifle Drill (BR 1834 (49))' HMSO 1953.  The parades seem just as I remember from sea cadets and thus more or less the same as the army parades.  I think what bothered me about the sea cadets' use of them was that it was every frigging morning  that we'd do a parade that would normally be done for a special occasion, no one had heard of 'divisions' I guess.  (And they'd the gall to call the parades 'ceremonial (i.e. sunday) divisions' which are a hell of a lot simpler.)  Then VENTURE comes along and, in our one parade the whole course of NETPO (and this will be the case for MARS 3&4), we do something that is not even daily divisions, yet it ought to be a huge ceremony.  Mind you, there were only 3 courses graduating, so a 'huge' parade would have required extra divisions & don't think they set aside training time for that.  This is too bad, I would not mind at all to take _some_ time to make another course's grad parade look spectacular (expecting a reciprocal offer from a course later-starting than mine).  

Some large differences I noticed in the RN handbook were the place of an 'Officer Instructor' a 'Battalion Commissioned Gunner' and the fact that the captain could be a battalion commander (which is rather army, instead of letting the XO command the parade).  

Regarding shipboard divisions, there is a section for a marchpast in single file in which the div officers leave the marchpast after saluting the captain and stand beside him.  I haven't heard of this before.


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## Sailing Instructor (10 Mar 2006)

I've  a question on the protocol for combining the shipboard ceremonies of 'ceremonial divisions' and 'colours.'  How is the prep pennant coordinated with the XO asking the CO for permission to carry on with colours?  Ordinarily, of course, the SCOPA is followed and the OOD is told when colours is by the ensignman.  But when the two ceremonies are combined, how is colours coordinated with divisions?


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## Sailing Instructor (12 Mar 2006)

To clarify my previous question:  

1. Does the OOD/OOW conduct colours (i.e. give orders to the colour party and receive reports from the ensign man) or does the XO take over because the ship's company is at divisions?  

2. And, in either case, how is the XO's request to the CO to 'carry on with colours' co-ordinated with the signal from SCOPA (i.e. co-ordinated with the clock), which is relayed through the ensign man's report to the OOD/OOW (or XO if that's the case)?


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## Gino (12 Mar 2006)

Sailing Instructor said:
			
		

> To clarify my previous question:
> 
> 1. Does the OOD/OOW conduct colours (i.e. give orders to the colour party and receive reports from the ensign man) or does the XO take over because the ship's company is at divisions?
> 
> 2. And, in either case, how is the XO's request to the CO to 'carry on with colours' co-ordinated with the signal from SCOPA (i.e. co-ordinated with the clock), which is relayed through the ensign man's report to the OOD/OOW (or XO if that's the case)?


Will double check the Ceremonial Manual when I have a chance but when Divisions are conducted, the OOD carries on with Colours as normal.  The addition is that the sailor on the ensign will report "one minute to Colours".  At that time, the XO will order the ship's company to face aft and the ceremony will be conducted as normal.


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## 30 for 30 (13 Mar 2006)

I recently attended a Navel Reserve Division's change of command parade, and was curious as to the manner in which the unit was formed up. Being from an army reserve background I am used to a formed up company format or a Guard or two on certain occasions, but in this case the unit was formed up in about nine "mini-platoons" (15 in each?), with around three up front, three in the middle and three in the rear IIRC. A similar sized Guard with rifles and bayonets was in the middle-front rank area. Are these groups by department (or trade), perhaps? The officers formed their own group, as opposed to being formed up in one long rank in front of an army reserve company, though each group on parade was also fronted by an officer IIRC. Thanks for any insight.


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## Gino (13 Mar 2006)

KP said:
			
		

> I recently attended a Navel Reserve Division's change of command parade, and was curious as to the manner in which the unit was formed up. Being from an army reserve background I am used to a formed up company format or a Guard or two on certain occasions, but in this case the unit was formed up in about nine "mini-platoons" (15 in each?), with around three up front, three in the middle and three in the rear IIRC. A similar sized Guard with rifles and bayonets was in the middle-front rank area. Are these groups by department (or trade), perhaps? The officers formed their own group, as opposed to being formed up in one long rank in front of an army reserve company, though each group on parade was also fronted by an officer IIRC. Thanks for any insight.


That's the traditional naval way of doing it.  A unit is usually formed up by dept/division in the "battalion in mass" formation.  Rather than having all hands carry rifles, a separate guard is paraded in front and centre position.  If a band was present they would normally be to the rear of the guard.  Supernumerary officers would be formed up in a separate group beside the dais and facing the parade.


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## Sailing Instructor (13 Mar 2006)

None of the ceremonial manuals (recent or past) seem to contain this info.  The best I could find was that the OOW/OOD says 'pipe the still/carry on' and the XO does the QM's job of ordering everyone to attention, facing the mast.

Here's a quote from the ceremonial manual on the conduction of colours:

Ceremony of “Colours”6.     
The ceremony of “Colours” is executed as follows:
a.  personnel should be mustered approximately ten minutes prior to the ceremony to ensure each person knows their job (personnel detailed are to be in the dress of the day for the brow staff);
b.  the Preparative Pennant (Prep) is hoisted close up five minutes prior to the ceremony;
c.  at the time appointed for “Colours” the Prep is dipped;
d.  the NCM detailed for the Ship's Ensign salutes the OOD/OOW (if entitlement exists) and reports "Colours – Sir / Ma’am (or rank of NCM)" as appropriate;
e.  the OOD/OOW orders "Make it so" and the Bos'n's Mate on the inboard ship strikes the appropriate number of bells;
f.  the order to the Quartermaster to "Pipe the ‘Still’", or the Bugler to "Sound the ‘General’ salute" is given by the OOD / OOW immediately after the bell is finished;
g.  the Quartermaster pipes the “Still”, or the bugler sounds the “General” salute;
h.  the Bos'n's Mate pipes over the ship's broadcast system “Attention on the upper deck – face aft” (or in the direction of the Ship's Ensign);
i.  the personnel detailed for the Ship's Ensign and Jack respectfully hoist the Ship's Ensign and Jack in slow time, with particular attention to be paid to the uniformity of hoisting of the two flags simultaneously;
j.  when the Ship's Ensign touches the block the person on the Ship's Ensign will turn smartly forward and remain at attention, watching for the Prep to be hauled down;
k.  following the movements of the Senior Officer, the Prep is hauled down;
l.  the NCM on the Ship's Ensign salutes (if entitlement exists) and reports "Carry on, Sir / Ma’am (or rank of NCM)”;
m.  the OOD/OOW then orders "Carry on";
n.  the Quartermaster / Bugler complies by piping/sounding the “Carry on”;
o.  the Bos'n's Mate then says "Carry on" on the ship’s broadcast system; and
p.  the ceremonial party dismisses.

And on the conduction of ceremonial divisions (just the paras that deal with colours):

i.  the Executive Officer brings the ship’s company to “Attention” on arrival of the CO,  then turns about, makes the report and requests to carry on with “Colours”;
j.  the XO orders the ship’s company to face aft or in the direction of the Ensign is to be hoisted, e.g. “(ships name), facing aft, right, left and about turn”;
k.  on completion of Colours, the XO orders “(ships name) facing inboard, right, left and about turn”, then stands the ship’s company at ease and announces which department will be inspected by the CO or inspecting officer;

So, as I see it, the CO must time his arrival to just precede SCOPA's dip of the prep.  Also, inbetween events (i) and (j), it seems that the prep signal must be relayed from SCOPA and reported to the OOD/OOW, and the OOW must order the still to be piped.  Does the XO use the still as his signal to bring the ship's company to attention?  (And the carry on to stand them at ease?)  Or am I way off the mark?


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## Sailing Instructor (17 Mar 2006)

The section in the CF Manual of Drill & Ceremonial on conduct of guards aboard HMC Ships during colours seems to match what is being said about the whole of ship's company:

32. The officer of the day or watch, or a
designated officer, the leading seaman of the
gangway and the ceremonial piping party shall be
positioned in a designated area.

33. The preparative pennant shall be hoisted on
the foremast five minutes prior to Colours. The
signalman, positioned aft by the ensign staff and
facing forward so that the preparative is in view, shall
call FIVE MINUTES TO COLOURS, SIR.

34. At one minute before Colours, the signalman
shall call ONE MINUTE TO COLOURS, SIR, and the
guard commander shall then order GUARD,
ATTEN – TION; and GUARD, SHOULDER – ARMS.

35. At Colours, the preparative pennant is
lowered to the dip and the signalman shall call
COLOURS, SIR. The bugler immediately sounds the
“Alert”, or the “Still” is piped, and the guard
commander orders GUARD, GENERAL SALUTE,
PRESENT – ARMS.

36. On completion of the salute, the guard
commander shall order GUARD, SHOULDER –
ARMS. The preparative pennant then shall be
lowered and, upon completion, the “Carry On” is
sounded by the bugler or piped by the ceremonial
side party. The guard then is ordered to order arms
and unfix bayonets and is dismissed.

So if I replace 'guard' with 'ship's company' and 'guard commander' with 'XO,' is this how colours and divisions are combined?  

But, again, how is the XO's request to the CO to carry on with colours fitted in there?  Is it in response to the report 'one minute to colours'?


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## Ex-Dragoon (17 Mar 2006)

Its Corporal of the Gangway.


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## navymich (18 Mar 2006)

The CO times his arrival for when the prep is hoisted, 5 minutes prior to colours.  The XO makes her report to the CO, including the request to carry on with colours.  The XO then has the divisions turn as required to face the ensign.  By the time this has occurred, it is only a couple more minutes, if that, until colours.  Colours is conducted as you noted.  When complete, the XO turns the platoons as before, and divisions continues.  There is nothing actually written for this, it is simply what is done.

Sometimes also, if the CO is out prior to 5 mins before (he might address everyone before hand), he will get a signal from a member on parade as to when the prep is hoisted so as to know his timings.  I know onboard my ship, I am the one that my CO keeps an eye on for his signal.



			
				Sailing Instructor said:
			
		

> Does the XO use the still as his signal to bring the ship's company to attention?  (And the carry on to stand them at ease?)  Or am I way off the mark?



The XO should not use this as her signal, as you would end up being too late.  You will therefore be at attention for a couple of minutes prior to colours.


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## Sailing Instructor (18 Mar 2006)

Thanks for the response, that is pretty much what I had imagined.  Except I find it a little strange that the ship's company are kept at attention for a couple of minutes, rather than having 'one minute to colours' announced.  But then I suppose details like this differ ship to ship since they are not written in any manuals.


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## navymich (18 Mar 2006)

As you notice in the Manual of Ceremony, the phrase "one minute to colours" is no longer used.  Still in the drill manual though I notice from what you have written.

Also, dependent on where the ship's company has fallen in, you're not always likely to be close to the pers at the ensign to be able to hear any of the reports.

And standing at attention for a couple of extra minutes isn't going to kill anyone lol.


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## Sailing Instructor (18 Mar 2006)

Is 'one minute to colours' no longer used on any ships?  Gino posted above that it is.  Either way, it doesn't change the order of things.

Also, does the quartermaster make his announcement 'attention on the upper deck etc.' or does he not, assuming that everyone on the upper deck is under the XO's command anyway?


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