# Medical on tuesday - Need help



## ebosiam

First of all, I'm sorry if there are a lot of topics about the drug test already. I searched through the forum and couldn't find my answer.
My medical, aptitude test and interview are on tuesday. I've already done the practice test which was incredibly easy, so I know I'll have no problem with that, and I've researched my trade and the forces extensively to do well on my interview. 
However, 2 weeks ago after a dozen beer and a few shots of bourbon, I ended up smoking a joint. I've been "quit" for over 2 years now as I much rather the mental clarity, but at that stage of drunkenness I really don't think responsibly. My question is:
Should I be honest about this or lie? My uncle who is a sergeant told me to lie and hope I get lucky.
I've been exercising non stop as well as drinking lots of water and eating whole grain/vitamin b foods to try and cleanse my system. 
If accepted to the forces I'd have a real reason to never smoke weed again. Hell, I'd even give up drinking. 
Is it worth it to be honest and try to convince them that I would stay clean? 
Right now my plan is to lie and hope for the best... but after researching the trade I'm applying for on this website I figured you guys would be good to ask.
Thank you in advance


----------



## ModlrMike

Never, ever, ever lie on enrollment. You don't want your career to start on that kind of note.


----------



## infantryian

Well where to begin...


			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> First of all, I'm sorry if there are a lot of topics about the drug test already.


Appology accepted


			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> I've already done the practice test which was incredibly easy, so I know I'll have no problem with that


The real test is harder than the practice test


			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> Should I be honest about this or lie?


HONEST


			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> My uncle who is a sergeant told me to lie and hope I get lucky.


 Are you sure about that?


			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> Hell, I'd even give up drinking.


Why? There's nothing wrong with drinking... As long as you accept full responsibility of your actions up to and including laws broken.


			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> Is it worth it to be honest and try to convince them that I would stay clean?


Yes


			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> Right now my plan is to lie and hope for the best...


It is more often than not better to tell the truth and live with the consequences. This isn't a military fact, it is a fact of life. There is merit in knowing when to lie to your significant other about their wardrobe choices, but other than that the truth is the best.


----------



## Rogo

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Never, ever, ever lie on enrollment. You don't want your career to start on that kind of note.



Your career may not even start if it would be on that kind of note.   I'd personally say that since you did it (drunk or not) you ought to accept the implications of such an action. Should you choose to lie, you will have to accept the implications of that.

I don't know how the CF recruiting takes this but I can figure that if you explain that will hurt your application some.  If you lie and they find out anyways, that will be infinitely worse.

My  :2c:   Best of luck


----------



## ballz

ebosiam said:
			
		

> My uncle who is a sergeant told me to lie and hope I get lucky.



That's rather discouraging...



			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> If accepted to the forces I'd have a real reason to never smoke weed again.



Didn't you have a real reason 2 weeks ago?



			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> Is it worth it to be honest and try to convince them that I would stay clean?
> Right now my plan is to lie and hope for the best...



The question is never "is it worth it to be honest," and if that is the way you look at things, please, withdraw your application. The question is really "is it worth it to lie?"

If you tell them the truth, they will most likely just delay your application for the mandatory time frame that Stacked mentioned.
If it's worth lying about now, when the consequence isn't even really that severe... then how the hell can you be trusted to tell the truth when you f**k up royally (happens to everyone) and the consequences might actually be severe? It will seem even more worth it to lie then...

You will find that the word "integrity" gets used a lot in the CF. Your integrity is being tested now.. and if you fail the test now, you will most certainly fail it again in the future when it's an even harder test (and that will happen, many times over).

So you decide "if its worth it to be honest..."

EDIT: And while you're deciding, tell your uncle to give his head a f**king shake. That's the antonym of integrity.


----------



## Nauticus

The military is a house built on the pillars of respect, honesty, trust, and responsibility. These attributes mean a lot more in the Forces than they presently do in the civilian world. Breaching pretty much all of those before you even get enrolled is a very, very poor way to start a career in the Forces.

Be a man and take responsibility for the mistakes you consciously made.


----------



## aesop081

ballz said:
			
		

> Didn't you have a real reason 2 weeks ago?



ZING !!!

Milpoints for you.


----------



## Scott

Story time: I know a guy who got nailed for DUI. The *SAME DAY* he had his court appearance, and got himself banned for a year, he got a call from an employer wanting him to work this whiz bang international job, loads of perks, great pay, leading company, yadda yadda. I was there when he got that call  to set up an interview (because he I had volunteered to drive him to court) and he stopped them part way through the phone call and told them what had happened. Then he asked if they wanted to change their mind about interviewing him and left it to their discretion.

They asked him to come in anyway. I drove him to and from the interview and he told me, after the deed was done, that he knew he had the job because he had been able to engage them with the telling of his tale. He made a mistake, he got caught, he's going to pay the price, he would prove, in time, that this was not his character, and he was willing to risk losing this opportunity in order to be honest with them. The guy interviewing him said that while the act itself showed a lack of judgement my mate was able to display that this was a "one off" for him, (I believe it truly was) and that he has a good character because he manned up and admitted it *before* having them waste their time on him. 

Later he told me that he felt even better doing so because they subject all of their new hires to a records search. Can you imagine if he had have lied about it? He could have done so very easily as they do not often require one to show a driving license for these jobs. Anyway, the record search would have turned him in and he likely would have lost this job on the spot.

Flipside: a little over a year ago the outfit I work for was looking to hire another Canadian to support our overseas work and I was interviewing candidates with my boss. We had narrowed our field down and had some really good feedback from one guy's references in particular. When I called him to schedule a time for an interview I made sure to ask all of the basic questions we need answered: do you have all of your vaccinations, current offshore medical, current survival ticket, and, of course, valid Passport with at least 6  months remaining on it? The boy said yes, of course.

When it comes time for the interview we get going and then he tells us that he had his Passport ganked by maintenance enforcement for not paying his child support. He explained that he had been out of the industry for a while and had to take some lower paying jobs in order to make ends meet. And in order to pay his bills he had gotten behind on his support payments. But he had researched the subject and knew that if he were to show the maintenance enforcement folk that he needed his Passport for work that they would allow him the use of it again.

Or at least I was informed by my boss that this was what he said.

You see, the second he told me that he had lied I shut off and he lost my vote for the job. I told my boss the same thing and gave the example of my mate. I don't have kids, don't know anyone in maintenance enforcement, so I have no concept of what it entails. But I can say that if he just had have been honest, even with the possibility that it might cost him, I would have been receptive to it, and he would have had the job. I would have written a letter to maintenance enforcement to help this guy. Instead, because he showed a lack of character and integrity, and also a willingness to lie in order to cover up mistakes, someone else got the job that likely should have been his. 

I am not being dismissive to maintenance enforcement here, it's a serious issue...but it ain't the end of the world. Sort your shit out, form a plan and act on it. Same goes for my mate's DUI: sort your shit out, form a plan and act on it.

And for the OP: be honest, tell them you fucked up, show them that this is not in your character, and be prepared to have them tell you that you might have to wait a little while longer before you get in. If you lie then you're always going to be looking over your shoulder, and that's no way to start a career.


----------



## kratz

Many people have come here asking about recent drug use. This is why the thread is such a long read. The standard policy has not changed yet. As posted above, being honest is the only answer.


----------



## ebosiam

I do believe in blunt honesty and taking responsibility for my actions. But some people had me believing that the only way to get accepted was to lie. I'm glad I asked you guys, thank you!


----------



## ebosiam

Also, thank you for that link kratz. Very helpful!


----------



## Booty22

I have a question, I do not use drugs. When I went and did my CFAT, Medical and interview I was not subjected to any urine/drug testing. 

Is this a standard practice ?


----------



## PMedMoe

Yes it is.


----------



## Booty22

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Yes it is.




So will I be tested when I go to BMQ?


----------



## PMedMoe

Booty22 said:
			
		

> So will I be tested when I go to BMQ?



I doubt it, but fear not, you may have the opportunity a few times in your career with the CF.


----------



## Rogo

Or they've been secretly taking it from you all along.  OoooOOOOOoooo


----------



## Booty22

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I doubt it, but fear not, you may have the opportunity a few times in your career with the CF.



Ok that's fine. Just like any respectable job then. I totally agree with random testing, keeps everyone safer.



			
				Rogo said:
			
		

> Or they've been secretly taking it from you all along.  OoooOOOOOoooo



Lol, the thought crossed my mind :blotto:


----------



## Domterran

Booty22 said:
			
		

> I have a question, I do not use drugs. When I went and did my CFAT, Medical and interview I was not subjected to any urine/drug testing.
> 
> Is this a standard practice ?



Ha I tought I was an exception about not being tested on my medical hehe. Not that it would matter anyway if they did.


----------



## Booty22

I guess on the drug form you fill out, if you stated some drug use recently you'd either not get in or have to do one?......... Anyone shed some light on this


----------



## Pusser

Here's my story about honesty.

Years ago, I screwed up in a big way - big enough that there was a letter on the desk of the Minister and that of the complainant's BQ MP demanding my immediate dismissal from Her Majesty's Service.  When confronted with the complaint, I wrote a letter of explanation and told the complete truth of all that had happened.  Essentially, I owned up to the mistake and confirmed the truth of the complaint, in full detail.  I have to say that this was a pretty low point in my life.

The interesting part is that the Summary Investigation (conducted by a full Commander - pretty serious for a junior officer's screw-up) found no evidence of my indiscretion.  None of the witnesses could recall the event in question (although egregious and stupid on my part, it happened very quickly and apparently only one person noticed).  In retrospect, I could have denied the whole thing and nothing would have happened to me.  It was my word against that of the witness.  In fact, one thing that came up in the investigation is that the witness had a personal vendetta against me because I had written an honest PER (completely unrelated to the actual complaint).  The end result of all of this was that my only censure was to be counseled on the incident with a stern wag of the finger.  A few months later, I received the best PER of my career to that point.  

I sometimes think back on what would have happened had I lied.  There probably would have been no formal consequences, but I think I could have lost the respect of the people who suspected what had happened.  Although there was no actual evidence, very few accusations have absolutely no thread of truth and I think my boss in particular would always have wondered and may have thought less of me.  As it stands, here we are 15 years later and my boss at the time, although long since retired, is still a close friend and mentor.  And I still use him as a reference when required and his letters about me are always glowing.

Whenever someone asks me about honesty, I tell this story and relate that although it was tough to tell the truth, the end result was worth it.  I didn't suffer any long-term consequences and I gained/maintained the respect of the people whose opinions mattered most to me.


----------



## ebosiam

Well, I was honest and everything worked out. The Lieutenant could tell that smoking weed is not in my character.
Apparently, I scored very high on the aptitude as well and no problems with the medical. So, I've been deemed suitable and eligible. Only problem now is that I'm a couple grand in debt and they need proof that I'm going to pay it or something? Time to find a temporary job I guess.
Thank you again for helping me make the right decision before going in, guys. I appreciate it a lot.
Take care
-Andrew


----------



## Jaydub

I don't believe that you are asked to disclose drug use during your medical.  At least, they didn't when I was joining.
They do, however, during your interview.

I was in the same boat about 10 years ago, when I was joining the Army Reserves Co-op Program.  It was September, and I had experimented with Marijuana over the summer.  I was sweating bullets over the urine test.  I even drank one of those Tommy Chong cleansing drinks.  As it turned out, it wasn't even a drug test.

I sung like a canary during the interview, and admitted everything.  They told me that they appreciated my honesty, gave me a lecture about drug use, and accepted me in the end.  

Looking back now, although there was no way they would have really known had I chosen to lie, I'm glad that I did the right thing.  

EDIT:  Looks like I cross posted with you.  I'm glad that you chose to answer honestly.


----------



## medicineman

Jaydub said:
			
		

> I don't believe that you are asked to disclose drug use during your medical.  At least, they didn't when I was joining.



Obviously I didn't do your medical, because I ask everyone - even serving members.  It's part of a proper history.

MM


----------



## Jaydub

medicineman said:
			
		

> Obviously I didn't do your medical, because I ask everyone - even serving members.  It's part of a proper history.
> 
> MM



Hmm.  Well, it's possible that they may have.  I just don't recall.


----------



## medicineman

Weren't stoned were you  ?

 ;D

MM


----------



## ballz

I *believe* the person that got me to fill out the alcohol/drug papers handed it to the doctor as I went into his office, and he had it in front of him during the exam.

This was in 2007 so I may be off, but I don't remember him specifically asking, but I was under the impression that it was because he had all he needed to know in front of him.

MM, do you normally have that form in front of you anyway, so might not be required to ask if any drug/alcohol is rather non-existent?



			
				ebosiam said:
			
		

> Well, I was honest and everything worked out. The Lieutenant could tell that smoking weed is not in my character.
> Apparently, I scored very high on the aptitude as well and no problems with the medical. So, I've been deemed suitable and eligible. Only problem now is that I'm a couple grand in debt and they need proof that I'm going to pay it or something? Time to find a temporary job I guess.
> Thank you again for helping me make the right decision before going in, guys. I appreciate it a lot.
> Take care
> -Andrew



Are you talking about the credit check?


----------



## medicineman

We get the forms...and still ask regardless.

MM


----------



## kratz

So using Stacked's example,

By choosing to do what you have done and admitting to it. You have put additional hoops through you for every stage of the process. You must accept your error buy jumping through those hoops. Provids a clear example of the phrase: "Your hooped".  

This does not necessarily mean you will be denied, as shown by so many examples above but you must acknowledge the error and work that much harder through the process to prove yourself.


----------



## runormal

This year when I applied after the aptitude test we had to fill out sheets. Had used Magic Mushrooms (3) times and Casually smoked Marijuana, I was so nervous filling out the forms. It never came up in my medical, but it came up in my interview. I'm glad I was honest, because now i don't have to ever worrying "What if they find out?" I haven't been accepted yet either, but i'd highly recommend being honest.


----------



## WonderGirl

runormal said:
			
		

> This year when I applied after the aptitude test we had to fill out sheets. Had used Magic Mushrooms (3) times and Casually smoked Marijuana, I was so nervous filling out the forms. It never came up in my medical, but it came up in my interview. I'm glad I was honest, because now i don't have to ever worrying "What if they find out?" I haven't been accepted yet either, but i'd highly recommend being honest.



I just filled out that drug form last week and was honest for a lot more than that! LOL I was a wild hippie raver chick in my teens and 20's and tried more than a few different drugs, dancing until the sunrise etc.  And they still called me to come in for my interview this week.  So as long as you are not still doing drugs, and won't again, they won't punish us for being honest.


----------

