# Russell Williams charged in 2 x murders, confinement, sexual assault.



## old medic

Female corporal's death under investigation
By PETE FISHER
NORTHUMBERLAND TODAY
http://www.northumberlandtoday.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2195714&auth=PETE%20FISHER%20PFISHER@NORTHUMBERLANDTODAY.COM


> Northumberland OPP are investigating the suspicious death of a woman found in her Brighton home Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> Dead is , 37, a flight attendant at 437 (Transport) Squadron, Trenton.
> 
> The military offers their condolences to Comeau's family and friends, said 8 Wing/CFB Trenton Public Affairs Officer Capt. Mark Peebles.
> 
> "Marie will be missed by comrades at 437 Squadron," he said Thursday afternoon.
> 
> Comeau had been at 437 Squadron for six months and in the military for 12 years.
> 
> The military was notified of the death late Wednesday evening.
> 
> Ontario Provincial Police said the woman's body was discovered at 12:58 p. m. after emergency services were dispatched to 252 Raglan St. in Brighton.
> 
> Neighbours confirmed Comeau lived at the home and was a corporal in the military and a flight attendant.
> 
> Police tape surrounded the home and neighbours said the two vehicles in the driveway belonged to the woman who lived at the residence and her boyfriend.
> 
> Terry Alexander and his wife, Mary, live across the road said Comeau's car was gone Wednesday morning, but his wife noticed the woman arrive back over the lunch hour.
> 
> A short time later Alexander walked out of his home to greet a service man when Comeau's boyfriend, who is also in the military, came running on the road, yelling, "She's dead inside the house."




EDIT: Changed the thread title as we can let the media still be in the dark ages about women in the Service, we're beyond that.

         RIP: Cpl. Comeau


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## Gramps

Marie-France certainly will be missed. She had an infectious smile, and had many friends throughout the Wing and the CF.


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## mariomike

"Brighton woman murdered: OPP: BRIGHTON -- The death of a Brighton woman has been deemed a homicide.":
http://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/article/141225


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## gaspasser

Rest In Peace Marie-France.
I did now know you but I dropped you off at the plane a few times.  You were always smiling and happy.  

Safe Flight
BYTD (formally flightline driver)


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## mariomike

Update. Jan 28, 2010

"OPP seek public’s assistance in Brighton murder case: Police anticipate a lengthy investigation in Marie Frances Comeau murder":
http://northumberlandnews.com/news/article/147213


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## OldSolduer

I'm awaiting on press conference that will take place at 1300 hrs (Eastern).

That is supposed to be very interesting and may turn some things upside down.


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## muffin

Shared with the usual fair dealings etc... did a search didn't see this.
I really hope they are just speculating here...

Excerpt:
_  Meanwhile, police were seen cordoning off a property on Cosy Cove Lane, a site that is reportedly close to where Llloyd's body was found. The registered owner of the home is listed as Col. Russ Williams,  a base commander at CFB Trenton.

Before becoming a base commander in July, 2009, Williams -- who is married -- piloted the Challenger aircraft which is often used by Canada's elite dignitaries. _ 

Full story here:

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100208/lloyd_police_100208/20100208?hub=Toronto


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## muffin

Toronto Sun is reporting he's been arrested ...

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/02/08/12791976.html

I am speachless....

*edit - added this link*
National Post

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2536807

This is all going to hit the fan pretty fast... mods may want to lock this...


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## montana

For those who are interested
He is being charged with the following:
-1st degree murder of Jessica Lloyd, 
-1st degree murder of Marie Comeau 
-2 counts of forcible confinement and
-2 counts of Break and enter and sexual assault 

According to http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2440235


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## Snakedoc

It may be a bit easier for people to see the full article below rather than just an excerpt.  Also, Mods, perhaps we can change to the title of the thread to not insinuate that CTV is the one pointing fingers when charges have been laid?  Thanks.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100208/lloyd_police_national_100208/20100208?hub=TopStoriesV2

Base commander charged in Ont. woman's death

ctvtoronto.ca

Date: Mon. Feb. 8 2010 1:21 PM ET

The body of a missing Belleville, Ont. woman has been found and a suspect has been arrested in connection with her death, police said Monday. 

Police say the suspect will be charged with first-degree murder in connection with Lloyd's death, as well as first-degree murder in the death of another woman in Brighton last year -- Marie France Comeau. 

The suspect came to the attention of police following a roadside canvass. He was arrested in Ottawa, police said. 

The news release says the suspect faces criminal charges. Sources say the suspect could face up to six charges, including break and enter, unlawful confinement and sexual assault. 

"During the joint investigation, other incidents in the area were examined resulting in additional criminal charges," the release said. 

Police announced that Russell Williams, 46, has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder along with two counts of forcible confinement and two counts of break and enter and sexual assault. 

Earlier Monday, police were seen cordoning off a property on Cosy Cove Lane, a site that is reportedly close to where Llloyd's body was found. The registered owner of the home is listed as Col. Russ Williams, a base commander at CFB Trenton. 

Before becoming a base commander in July, 2009, Williams -- who is married -- piloted the Challenger aircraft that is often used by Canada's elite dignitaries. 

No allegations against Williams have been proven in a court of law. 

Lloyd was last heard from on Jan. 28, when someone sent a text message from her cellphone to a family friend. Police say she was last known to be at her home on Highway 37 in the late hours of that same evening. 

Her family reported her missing the next day after she failed to show up for work at Tri-Board Student Transportation Services in Napanee, Ont. 

In the days that followed, police launched helicopter and ground searches but did not locate her. 

Anyone with information about Lloyd is asked to contact police at 613-966-0882, ext. 2313, or to call Quinte Crime Stoppers at 613-969-8477, or 1-800-222-8477. 

With files from The Canadian Press


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## Michael OLeary

The Belleville Intelligencer
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2440120



> Base commander's home cordoned off in Tweed
> Posted By Intelligencer Staff
> Posted 2 hours ago
> 
> 
> TWEED — Provincial police crime scene investigators here are combing through the home of CFB Trenton Base Commander Russ Williams in connection with the death and disappearance of Jessica Lloyd.
> 
> Lloyd, 27, was found dead Sunday near here, sources said, and police have since arrested a man in connection with her death. His identity has not been released.
> 
> A press conference has been called for 1 p.m. to release further details of the investigation.
> 
> Intelligencer reporter Luke Hendry reporting from the scene said Williams' home on Cosy Cove Lane here is cordoned off and police are poring over the residence.
> 
> Williams has been base commander at CFB Trenton since July, 2009, and previously flew VIP Challenger aircraft for such dignitaries as Canadian prime ministers and royalty, while stationed in Ottawa.


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## Nfld Sapper

News Release
Statement By Chief of The Air Staff Regarding The Arrest of 8 Wing Commander
CASNR 10.001 - February 8, 2010

OTTAWA – The Chief of the Air Staff, Lieutenant-General André Deschamps, issued the following statement today:

I am aware of the charges brought today against Colonel Russell Williams, 8 Wing Commander, Trenton. 

As Chief of the Air Staff, I take very seriously all allegations of service or criminal offences against one of our members.

Although one is considered innocent until proven guilty, in light of the seriousness of the charges, and in consideration of the high level of responsibilities attached to the position of Wing Commander, an interim Wing Commander for 8 Wing Trenton will soon be appointed. 

Also, in the coming days, a review will be initiated by 1 Canadian Air Division, in Winnipeg, to determine the most appropriate action to take regarding Colonel Williams pending the outcome of the trial.

The Canadian Forces hold their members to a very high standard of conduct and performance, in Canada or abroad, on or off military duty. I confirm that the Air Force is fully supporting civilian authorities in the conduct of the current matter. 

I am certain that Air Force personnel at 8 Wing will carry on with their duties, displaying the usual level of professionalism and sense of duty that they have always shown in the past. We will ensure that the Wing leadership and personnel are supported throughout this difficult period.

This situation affects us all and I wish to extend my deepest sympathies to the families of those affected by these tragic events.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Just a small warning to those who may choose to speculate, I just logged in and the first thing I see is that all 3 major media outlets in this country are looking at this thread right now so lets keep this professional.

Bruce


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## Colin Parkinson

I can imagine the shock for all those on the base first the murders and now this news. I have no doubt the media is clamouring at the gates in the hopes someone will blurt out something.


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## jollyjacktar

I am shocked and floored at the thought and ramifications of this, it reminds me of a Hollywood movie plot or Robert Louis Stevenson's tale.  May there be closure for all concerned at the end of this.


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## vonGarvin

Shocking news indeed.

As an aside, I was appalled at some of the comments that the CBC moderators let through on their comments portion to this story.  Some suggesting that "everyone in Tweed" knew that the base commander was a sexual predator, and that the MND should resign for letting this guy knowingly be a base commander.  I mean, heck, I thought our country was one in which justice was to be served through the system, not through the rumour net.

In any event, all that is certain is that two women are dead, their families are in shock as are their friends.  I echo the comments above that my thoughts are with all affected by this tragedy.


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## the 48th regulator

It may be Police speculation;

http://www.mix97.com/news/2010/02/base-commander-at-cfb-trenton-with-murder/

The Commanding Officer at CFB Trenton made his first court apperance this afternoon in connection with the murders of Jessica Lloyd and Marie France Comeau and the sexual assaults on two women in seperate incidents in the Tweed-area. 46-year old Russell Williams was charged last night at his home in Ottawa….meanwhile, OPP vehicles continue to gather evidence at Colonel Williams cottage on Cosy Cove east of Tweed. At a press conference today,,,*,OPP Detective Inspector Chris Nicholas said Williams is also being investigated in connection with other cases at bases where he had been stationed….that includes a possible link to the murder of Kathleen McVicar eight years ago at CFB Trenton’s Middleton Park.
*

http://www.thunderbaydistrictcrimestoppers.com/content/What%27s_New/O.P.P._Rewards/

Homicide - Kathleen MacVicar

The Government of the Province of Ontario together with the city of Quinte-West are offering a reward in the amout of seventy five-thousand dollars ($75,000) for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for the murder of Kathleen MacVICAR.

On June 13th 2001, Kathleen MacVICAR, age 19 years, was seen fro the last time leaving on foot from a friend's residence. On June 15th 2001, her body was discovered on the National Defense property, Canadian Forces Base, Trenton, Ontario. MacVICAR was the victim of murder.

Any person having information regarding the person(s) responsible for this murder should immediately contact the Director of the Criminal Investigation Branch, Ontario Provincial Police at 1-888-310-1122 or (705) 329-6111, the  "Project Shadow" office at (613) 962-5637, their nearest police authority, or Crime Stoppers.

File # 955-10-173-2001

This reward will be apportioned as deemed just by the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services for the Province of Ontario and the Commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police.








http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,215.0.html

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/board,14.0.html

This investigation will be quite interesting to follow.

dileas

tess


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## PMedMoe

When I first saw this today, I was obviously shocked by the headline.  When I looked at the first news link, I was also struck by a resemblance between the two victims.






I've also noticed that, unlike CBC, The Globe and Mail disabled comments on the article.


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## Michael OLeary

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I've also noticed that, unlike CBC, The Globe and Mail disabled comments on the article.



So has the CBC:



> This story is closed to commenting.


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## old medic

Top soldier: 'Tough day for anyone in uniform'
By IAN ELLIOT, QMI Agency
08 Feb 2010 
copy at : http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canada/2010/02/08/12795391.html



> KINGSTON, Ont. - Canada’s top soldier said Monday that military members are “in shock” at the unfolding events in Trenton, where the base commander has been charged with murdering two young women.
> 
> Visiting CFB Kingston, chief of defence staff Gen. Walter Natynczyk urged soldiers not to let the events at CFB Trenton distract them.
> 
> “This is a tough day for anyone in uniform,” Natynczyk said.
> 
> Yesterday, police announced Col. Russell Williams, 46, was charged with two counts of first-degree murder.
> 
> He’s accused of killing Jessica Lloyd, a 27-year-old woman who lived north of Belleville who disappeared 12 days ago.
> 
> Lloyd worked for the Tri-Board transportation agency in Napanee.
> 
> Williams is also accused of killing Marie Comeau, 37, who was a corporal at the Trenton airbase where Williams was the commanding officer.
> 
> He also faces charges of sexual assault in connection with two home invasions in the Tweed area in September.
> 
> Williams holds a Master of Defence Studies degree from Royal Military College after attending the Canadian Forces Command and Staff course from August 2003, to June 2004, according to Williams’ official Air Force biography.
> 
> His arrest dominated conversation at the Kingston military base yesterday, where Natynczyk said there’s a duty that comes with command for everyone from corporals up to generals.
> 
> He said that the events unfolding in Trenton did not reflect on the forces as a whole.
> 
> “What is happening does not change our morals or the honour of those of us who wear the uniform,” Natynczyk said.


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## McG

old medic said:
			
		

> “This is a tough day for anyone in uniform,” Natynczyk said.


That's putting it a little lightly.
Where our whole purpose is to protect our society from those who would prey on them ... the possibility is quite upsetting that a so accomplished one of our own might be such a predator.


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## krustyrl

Well said MCG... people here in Trenton are absolutely stunned .. as everyone else is, whether military or civilian. 
I'm sure lots of head scratching is going on. My thoughts and prayers are with the families.


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## old medic

Forces move swiftly to replace Col. Williams
By KATHLEEN HARRIS, Parliamentary Bureau Chief
Last Updated: 8th February 2010, 6:31pm
copy at: http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canada/2010/02/08/12796766.html


> OTTAWA — Canadian Forces brass and rank-and-file were reeling from the shock of a high-ranking officer charged with multiple counts of murder and rape, but experts doubt it will be a black mark for the military.
> 
> The Forces moved swiftly to replace Col. Russ Williams as top commander at CFB Trenton and is considering other sanctions against the senior soldier charged with murder, home invasion and sexual assault. Lt.-Gen. Andre Deschamps, chief of the air staff, said a review by 1 Canadian Air Division in Winnipeg will mull “the most appropriate action,” noting members are held to a “very high standard of conduct and performance” whether in Canada or abroad, and whether on or off military duty.
> 
> Military legal expert and retired colonel Michel Drapeau said murder is among a small handful of offences that must be tried in civilian court instead of military tribunal. While Williams could retain his rank pending the outcome of proceedings, Drapeau said National Defence could force his compulsory release based on the severity of charges.
> 
> “I don’t remember in my lifetime someone of that rank charged with something so serious,” he said. “There are a whole range of actions that DND will have to take. Right now he is still a member of the armed forces, still innocent until proven guilty.”
> 
> Retired major general Lewis Mackenzie called the case “totally unique” because of the rank of the accused and gravity of offence. But he doubts it will tarnish the reputation of the military.
> 
> “It will garner more attention because of the rank, but I don’t think the Canadian public will make a decision based on an act that hasn’t been confirmed yet and involves only one individual,” he said.
> 
> Retired colonel Alain Pellerin, executive director of the Conference of Defence Associations, expects charges will be a blow to tight military circles, but doesn’t believe it will have broader implications for the reputation of the Forces because it wasn’t an alleged crime that occurred in the line of duty.
> 
> “It’s a very sad event and it will have an effect on the people in Trenton, but I would suggest that it won’t have much of an impact on the Forces outside that community or the way the population views the Forces,” he said.
> 
> Deschamps said the Forces is supporting civilian investigators and expressed condolences to victims, their families and members of the Forces.
> 
> “This situation affects us all and I wish to extend my deepest sympathies to the families of those affected by these tragic events,” he said.


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## old medic

Comeau remembered as charming, intelligent
By DON PEAT, QMI Agency
Last Updated: 8th February 2010, 7:41pm
copy at: http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canada/2010/02/08/12797201.html



> For almost three months, friends and family of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau had no answers to the simple question of who killed the beautiful military flight attendant.
> 
> On Monday they learned the corporal attached to 437 Squadron at CFB Trenton allegedly was murdered by her own base commander, Col. Russell Williams.
> 
> As news of the arrest spread, friends and family wrote on the Facebook memorial to Comeau that remembered her as a charming, intelligent, generous hard worker and loyal friend.
> 
> “RIP sweet girl,” one friend wrote. “You live on in our hearts.”
> 
> Another woman noted the deeper tragedy that Comeau, who dedicated the last 12 years of her life to the military, allegedly was slain by her own base commander.
> 
> “You proudly served our country and you were taken away (allegedly) by someone who was supposed to be our and your leader,” the woman wrote.
> 
> Comeau’s body was discovered Nov. 25 by her boyfriend, who is also in the military, inside her Raglan St. home in Brighton.
> 
> At the time, neighbours said her boyfriend came running out of the house toward the road, yelling, “she’s dead inside the house.”
> 
> Comeau was laid to rest at the National Cemetery in Ottawa on Dec. 4.
> 
> Despite Comeau having served in Trenton for less than a year, her colleagues remembered her fondly.
> 
> “Marie will be missed by comrades at 437 Squadron,” CFB Trenton public affairs officer Capt. Mark Peebles told reporters in November.
> 
> Neighbours of Comeau were shocked in the wake of Monday’s arrest of her alleged killer, who is also charged with the murder of a Belleville woman and the sexual assault of two women in Tweed.
> 
> “We’re almost all military families on this street,” said Jocelyn Kieffer, a next-door neighbour.
> 
> “There are no words I can put into how I feel right now.
> 
> “I’ve known other base commanders and it’s not something you think can happen.”
> 
> Terry Alexander, a neighbour across the street from the Comeau residence, said he’s glad the situation seems to be coming to an end.
> 
> “I hope the case is closed and we feel safe now,” Alexander said. “We moved away from Mississauga to get away from this type of thing and here it is happening at my front door.”


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## old medic

Air Force commander 'shocked' by colonel's arrest
ctvtoronto.ca
Date: Mon. Feb. 8 2010 10:08 PM ET
link : http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100208/lloyd_police_national_100208/20100208?hub=Canada



> The commander of Canada's Air Force expressed his sympathies to the families of two women recently murdered near Belleville, Ont., and said he was "shocked" that a colonel under his authority has been charged with their murders.
> 
> "Their families have our deepest sympathy, as we ourselves mourn," Maj. Gen. Yvan Blondin told reporters at a news conference Monday.
> 
> The commander of CFB Trenton, 46-year-old Col. Russell Williams, was formally charged on Monday with murdering two women and sexually assaulting another two.
> 
> Bellville resident Jessica Lloyd, 27, went missing on Jan. 28. Her body was discovered on Monday. Marie Comeau, a corporal at CFB Trenton who lived in Brighton, Ont., was found dead in her home in late November.
> 
> Williams was arrested in Ottawa on Sunday in connection with their murders. He also stands accused of breaking into the homes of two other women and sexually assaulting them.
> 
> On Monday he was taken to a Belleville courthouse, wearing a blue prison suit as well as hand and leg shackles. He told the court he understood the charges that were laid against him.
> 
> Williams was then remanded to police custody until his next court appearance, which will take place by video on Feb. 18.
> 
> "We're shocked by the connection to a leader in our Air Force," Blondin said, adding that he could not comment on any aspect of the investigation.
> 
> An interim base commander has been appointed to take over Williams' responsibilities, Blondin added, so that personnel can continue to carry out their work at the base, which includes airlifts to and from Haiti and Afghanistan.
> 
> Police are combing through Williams' home in Tweed, Ont., about 30 kilometres north of Belleville. Trenton is about 18 km west of Belleville, and Brighton is about 15 km west of Trenton.
> 
> The suspect came to the attention of police following a Highway 37 roadside canvass on Thursday (Highway 37 runs from Belleville to Tweed). The investigation involved the OPP, Belleville Police and investigators from the Canadian Forces.
> 
> Det. Insp. Chris Nicholas told the news conference that the investigation caused police to examine other incidents in the surrounding area, including recent home invasions.
> 
> "Due to the seriousness of those incidents, the police linked the crimes to a single suspect," he said.
> 
> Police announced that Williams has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder along with two counts of forcible confinement and two counts of break and enter and sexual assault.
> 
> Those "home invasion" crimes occurred in the Tweed area in September, Nicholas said.
> 
> Earlier Monday, police were seen cordoning off a property on Cosy Cove Lane in Tweed, a site that is reportedly close to where Lloyd's body was found. The registered owner of the home is listed as Col. Russ Williams.
> 
> Police say their investigation will extend to other communities Williams lived in recent years. As a career military officer, he moved around a lot.
> 
> Williams joined the Air Force in 1987 and rose through the ranks. Before becoming a base commander in July 2009, Williams -- who is married, according to his Canadian Forces biography -- piloted the Challenger aircraft that is often used by Canada's elite dignitaries.
> 
> From December 2005 to June 2006, he reportedly commanded Camp Mirage, a secretive logistics base near Dubai that's not officially acknowledged by the government or military.
> 
> One photo shows him with Defence Minister Peter MacKay and Gen. Walter Natynczyk, chief of the defence staff.
> 
> No allegations against Williams have been proven in a court of law.
> 
> Lloyd was last heard from on Jan. 28, when someone sent a text message from her cellphone to a family friend. Police say she was last known to be at her home on Highway 37 in the late hours of that same evening.
> 
> Her family reported her missing the next day after she failed to show up for work at Tri-Board Student Transportation Services in Napanee, Ont.
> 
> In the days that followed, police launched helicopter and ground searches but did not locate her.
> 
> Anyone with information about Lloyd is asked to contact police at 613-966-0882, ext. 2313, or to call Quinte Crime Stoppers at 613-969-8477, or 1-800-222-8477.


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## Journeyman

Just a pedantic point, particularly for any media types perusing -- 

Major-General Yvan Blondin is not the "commander of Canada's Air Force." He commands 1 Canadian Air Division; the operational-level command and control formation of the Canadian Forces' Air Command. He commands the 13 subordinate Wings of Air Command, with 1 Cdn Air Div also being the headquarters of the Canadian NORAD Region.

The Chief of the Air Staff, effectively the "commander of Canada's Air Force," is Lieutenant-General Andre Deschamps.

Thanks


(I know that and I'm an _Army _ guy   )


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## F.I.R.S.T.

I figure the the Police (and likely the CF Military Police) will go through every base he's ever been to a fine toothcomb to check for missing persons, sexual assaults and unsolved murders, to rule him in or out of those investigations as well.

Two murders and two assaults he's been charged with. How many more could there be in his CF career? Maybe none, maybe more, but who'd have suspected a Base Commander?

My thoughts are with the families of all of the victims, and may justice be served (and seen to be served).


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## old medic

'In the company of the devil': Victim
By MIKE STROBEL, QMI Agency 
09 Feb 2010 
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/02/08/12797701-qmi.html



> “I was in the company of the devil himself.
> 
> “And I was sure he was going to kill me.”
> 
> She has titanic courage, this Tweed single mom.
> 
> For 21/2 hours in the deepest dark of last Sept. 30, she fought, begged, cajoled and prayed for her life.
> 
> And now the horror of that sexual assault returns in a stunning flash.
> 
> Her accused attacker is CFB Trenton’s commander, Col. Russ Williams — also charged Monday in another Tweed sexual attack, and for the murders of Jessica Lloyd and Marie-France Comeau.
> 
> 
> A top soldier. A neighbour. A leading citizen of Tweed.
> 
> “I’m still in shock,” the mom tells me. “Just sick to my stomach. He was so close.”
> 
> The detectives gave her the news first thing Monday morning. “It’s over,” they assured her.
> 
> Well, not by a long shot. Not for her. Hours of counselling lie behind and ahead.
> 
> And she will live that night again and again.
> 
> She fell asleep alone in her house, in a back room, and awoke around 2 a.m. She was choking. Her comforter was pressed to her face. “I thought maybe there was a fire,” she says.
> 
> But it was a man. A strong man. She struggled. He beat her about the head. She broke free enough to breathe.
> 
> “You DON’T want to look at me,” he said. His voice was deep and muffled.
> 
> “I won’t,” she whispered. But he blindfolded her and she never laid eyes on him, not once.
> 
> Even when he bound her hands behind her back.
> 
> Even when he trussed her up in a sort of makeshift harness, fashioned from a pillowcase, twist ties and wire he found in her room.
> 
> Even when he cut off her clothes with a knife and said, “I’ll be careful not to cut you.”
> 
> Even when he assaulted her.
> 
> Even when he took photographs, letting her touch the camera so she’d know.
> 
> Even when he told her: “You seem like a nice lady.”
> 
> “It was so bizarre,” she says. “He was playing a game with me. I had conversations with him the whole time, almost like I was negotiating with him.”
> 
> “You’re going to kill me, aren’t you?” she asked him, early on.
> 
> “No need for that,” he replied.
> 
> He convinced her he had accomplices burglarizing her home, though she heard nothing.
> 
> At 4:30 a.m, in that bleakest time before dawn, he ordered her onto her knees, head down, on a couch. “He has a gun,” she thought. “Now, I die.”
> 
> But he left, warning her he’d come back in 10 minutes. She waited, but he did not return. And she called for help.
> 
> The next four months are a blur. DNA tests, therapy, bewilderment, fear. She bought a German shepherd. She could not sleep. Always the question: Who could do this? In Tweed!?
> 
> She saw no connection to the Lloyd and Comeau cases, until cops announced last week there might be a link.
> 
> Then came Monday’s shocking news. The other sexual assault. Two women murdered. One suspect. The police vowing to probe the colonel’s past.
> 
> “Why am I alive?” the Tweed mom asks me.
> 
> I wish I had an answer. She will seek it for years to come.
> 
> “I guess I’m blessed,” she says. “He let me live. I can’t explain it.
> 
> “Now I just want to sleep. I’m so exhausted.”
> 
> She knew Col. Williams only to say hello. She did not even know he was CFB Trenton’s commander.
> 
> Shortly after Christmas, she drove past his front yard on Cosy Cove Lane.
> 
> She waved. He waved back.


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## observor 69

Stages of grief : 

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance

I'm still working on "Anger."


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## Fishbone Jones

Everyone one is _presumed innocent _ until proven guilty, no matter the prima facie evidence, in a Court of Law. Not in the media and not on the internet, and most certainly not by a TV program like CSI.

So with all the major media outlets that are hovering on our every word here, everyone can stop the conjecture, the petty niggling, stay in your lanes and let the professionals assigned to the case do their jobs.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Redeye

Sounds like that's happening already, heard this morning that there are two unsolved cases in Dartmouth/Eastern Passage that may have some similarities, in the timeline Cpl Russell was posted at CFB Shearwater - however - whoever was reporting it was careful to stress that they haven't linked anything yet - but obviously it bears looking into.



			
				F.I.R.S.T. said:
			
		

> I figure the the Police (and likely the CF Military Police) will go through every base he's ever been to a fine toothcomb to check for missing persons, sexual assaults and unsolved murders, to rule him in or out of those investigations as well.
> 
> Two murders and two assaults he's been charged with. How many more could there be in his CF career? Maybe none, maybe more, but who'd have suspected a Base Commander?
> 
> My thoughts are with the families of all of the victims, and may justice be served (and seen to be served).


----------



## observor 69

Redeye said:
			
		

> Sounds like that's happening already, heard this morning that there are two unsolved cases in Dartmouth/Eastern Passage that may have some similarities, in the timeline Cpl Russell was posted at CFB Shearwater - however - whoever was reporting it was careful to stress that they haven't linked anything yet - but obviously it bears looking into.



"Shearwater among areas cops probing" 

LINK


----------



## The Bread Guy

This from the BBC:


> The commander of Canada's largest air force base has been charged with the murder of two women and the sexual assault of two others, police said.
> 
> Col Russell Williams, 46, appeared in court a day after his arrest. He was held in custody and will appear again by video on 18 February.
> 
> One woman was found dead in her house in November and the other was reported missing 11 days ago.
> 
> Col Williams oversaw logistical support for missions to Haiti and Afghanistan ....



_New York Times_:


> The commander of the largest air force base in eastern Canada has been charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of two women from eastern Ontario and with the sexual assault of two others. Col. Russell Williams, 46, commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton, was arrested Sunday in Ottawa, the police said Monday. He was charged with the first-degree murder of Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville, and Marie Comeau, 38, an air force corporal, of Brighton. Ms. Lloyd’s body was found Monday and Corporal Comeau’s was found in November.



Agence France-Presse:


> A Canadian military base commander who once piloted the prime minister's jet has been charged with murdering two women and sexually assaulting two others, police said.
> 
> Colonel Russell Williams, 46, was arrested on Sunday for the disappearance and death of a 27-year-old woman last heard from on January 28 when she sent a text message to a friend.
> 
> Her body was found on Monday on a rural roadside near Williams's home in Tweed, Ontario, about 215 kilometers (134 miles) east of Toronto.
> 
> Police said a review of similar unsolved cases in the region led to further charges being laid in the murder of a corporal under Williams' command at Canadian Forces Base Trenton. She was found dead in her home in November ....


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Trenton colonel's charges spur cold case review
Residents of 2 victims' communities express shock
Last Updated: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 | 11:44 AM ET 
CBC News 






Col. Russ Williams, shown here at the Battle of Britain parade in Trenton, Ont., on Sept. 20, has been charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of two eastern Ontario women. (Department of National Defence) 

The 2001 slaying of a Nova Scotia woman at CFB Trenton is among the cases being re-examined by police in the wake of murder charges against Col. Russell Williams.

Kathleen MacVicar, 19, of Glace Bay, N.S., was staying with relatives on the Ontario military base when she was found slain in June 2001.

Trenton isn't far from Tweed, where the body of 27-year-old Jessica Lloyd was found Monday, and from Brighton, where 38-year-old Cpl. Marie-France Comeau was found. Williams has been charged with first-degree murder in both women's deaths.

"We're looking at where Kathleen was killed," said Ontario Provincial Police Sgt. Kristine Rae Tuesday.

"We need to see if there is anything else that is similar to the crimes that we are presently investigating."

Rae said a $50,000 reward is still being offered for new information about MacVicar's killing.

Williams, 46, of Tweed, is in custody Tuesday after a brief court appearance Monday afternoon.

The commander of 8 Wing at CFB Trenton was also charged with breaking and entering, sexual assault and forcible confinement in connection with two home invasions in Tweed, about 30 kilometres north of Belleville.





Map of eastern Ontario, showing the location of CFB Trenton, the base that Col. Russell Williams commanded. (CBC)

Rae said police are still investigating and have not ruled out further charges against Williams.

"We will follow the evidence," she said. "If further charges are required, they will be laid."

Williams has been based in other cities, including Shearwater, N.S., and Ottawa, during his military career.

"As we go through the investigation, we will be looking at where he has been posted before to see if there is any other occurrences that have any kind of similarity to what we've arrested him for," Rae said.

Detectives in Belleville told CBC News late Monday night, while they were off-duty, that the two women sexually assaulted in the home invasions last September were found tied up and had been photographed.

Provincial police remained Tuesday outside Williams's new home on Edison Avenue in Ottawa's Westboro neighbourhood, where his wife lives, waiting for a warrant to conduct a search.

On Sunday, the day of Williams's arrest, two OPP officers and four detectives escorted his wife into the home, where she was allowed to collect a few belongings and some medication for her husband, CBC's Hannah Thibedeau reported.

'Shocking news'
Belleville Mayor Neil Ellis said Tuesday that news of Williams's arrest has left the community, which has close ties to the Canadian Forces Base, reeling.

"That [is] shocking news, that somebody of [Williams's] position and trust is accused of these murders."

Ellis recalled that the community had rallied together in an effort to locate Lloyd, who disappeared on Jan. 28. Her body was found Monday outside Tweed, following Williams's arrest on Sunday.

"It's not the outcome we hoped for," Ellis said. But he said at least now, someone has been charged in her death and hopefully the community can move forward "in the next chapter of having the whole story come out."

Neighbours who lived near Williams's homes in both Tweed and Ottawa also expressed disbelief.

Tweed resident Larry Jones said he had talked to Williams several times in the last five years, and described him as a "real down-to-earth guy."

Jones said he did not speak to his neighbour often.

"He's usually kind of a loner and kind of stuck to himself," Jones added.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Canadian Forces
Commander charged
Biography: Col. Russell Williams
Last Updated: Monday, February 8, 2010 | 9:51 PM ET 
CBC News 





Col. Russell Williams, left, is shown with Defence Minister Peter MacKay, centre, and Gen. Walter Natynczyk, Canada's chief of defence staff, right. (Trentonian/QMI Agency) 

Col. Russell Williams, a high-ranking Canadian military commander who has met with senior Canadian politicians and been quoted extensively about the war in Afghanistan and the earthquake in Haiti, is facing first-degree murder charges in the deaths of two women from eastern Ontario.

Williams, of Tweed, Ont., and the 8 Wing Commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton, was arrested Sunday in Ottawa and has been charged with first-degree murder in the death of Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38.

In addition to the murder charges, Williams faces counts of forcible confinement, breaking and entering, and sexual assault in relation to two home invasions in the Tweed area in September 2009. Here's a look at key points in Williams' 23-year military career:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WIlliams joined the Canadian Forces in 1987 after obtaining a degree in economics and political science from the University of Toronto. 

Williams earned his wings in 1990 and was posted to 3 Canadian Forces Flying Training School, based in Portage La Prairie, Man., where he served for two years as an instructor. 

In 1992, Williams was posted to 434 Combat Support Squadron in Shearwater, N.S., where he flew the CC-144 Challenger in the electronic warfare and coastal patrol role. 

He was then posted to the 412 Transport Squadron in Ottawa, where he transported VIPs, including high-ranking government officials and foreign dignitaries, also on Challengers. 

Williams was promoted to major in November 1999 and was posted to Director General Military Careers, where he served as the multi-engine pilot career manager. 

From August 2003 to June 2004, Williams obtained a master's of defence studies from the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ont. 

In June 2004, he was promoted to lieutenant-colonel and was appointed commanding officer of 437 Transport Squadron in Trenton, Ont., a post he held for two years. 

Between December 2005 and June 2006, he was the commanding officer for Camp Mirage, the secretive Canadian Forces forward logistics base that's not officially acknowledged by the government or military but has been widely reported to be near Dubai. 

He was posted to the Directorate of Air Requirements in July 2006 where he served as project director for the Airlift Capability Projects Strategic (CC177 Globemaster III) and Tactical (CC130J Hercules J), and Fixed-Wing Search and Rescue. 

In January 2009 he was posted to the Canadian Forces Language School in Gatineau, Que., for a six-month period of French language training, during which he was promoted to colonel. 

Williams succeed Col. Mike Hood as commanding officer at CFB Trenton on July 15, 2009. 

On Dec. 11, 2009, Col. Russ Williams welcomed the Olympic torch when it stopped in Trenton. He said: "On behalf of the base I would like to take the time to thank RBC for providing us with the opportunity to participate in this event. It's very exciting to be a part of this." 

On Jan. 30, 2010, Williams was interviewed about 8 Wing's participation in Haiti relief. Williams said that in addition to Haiti, 8 Wing co-ordinates the resupply for Canada's mission in Afghanistan and air support for the Vancouver Olympics, which has a significant military presence. 

According to Williams's DND profile, he is a keen photographer, fisherman and runner. Williams is married to a woman named Mary Elizabeth, and they lived on Cosy Cover Lane in Tweed, Ont., which is about 60 kilometres northeast of CFB Trenton.


----------



## old medic

They are just reprinting the official bio, found here;
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/8w-8e/page-eng.asp?id=964


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/762663--could-trenton-murders-be-serial-killings


Could Trenton murders be serial killings?

Cathal Kelly Staff Reporter

The crimes are less than five months old. The violent sex offender who committed them has likely been active for far longer, according to an FBI profiler.
Air Force colonel Russ Williams stands charged with two first-degree murders and two sex assaults in and around CFB Trenton. He is 46.

On Tuesday morning, police were poring over unsolved crimes in the many stops in Williams’ 23-year military career, including towns small and large across Canada, as well as overseas postings.

Williams stands accused of an escalating rampage of violence. First, a pair break-and-enters followed by fetishistic sex assaults over a two-week span in September. Both targeted homes were on the same road. Both victims’ identities are now shielded by court order.
Then, on Nov. 25, Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, was found slain in her home in nearby Brighton. On Jan. 29, 27-year-old Jessica Lloyd disappeared. Her body was recovered Monday, the day after Williams was arrested.

Police are not revealing the details surrounding the murders. They have said that in both sexual assaults, the victims were surprised in their homes late at night. They were tied to chairs. They were photographed by their assailant. A report in the Toronto Sun provided details of one attack, which included an unhurried intruder who seemed calm throughout.

We asked Mark Safarik, one of the FBI’s serial-killer hunters with the famed Behavioral Analysis Unit, about the likelihood that crimes like that were the work of a first-time offender.
After 22 years in the bureau, Safarik now operates a Virginia-based consultancy with Robert K. Ressler, the FBI investigator credited with popularizing the term “serial killer.”

After considering some of the published details, Safarik observes, “People don’t just wake up one day and say, ‘I’m going to abduct someone and murder them.’ I’m sure there’s a history.
“For me, the surprise is the number of assaults in a relatively short period of time,” Safarik says. “He’s obviously intelligent. He’s careful. So what’s happening with him? Is there some sort of mental decompensation? Did something trigger this?”

According to the profile of this sort of violent sex offender, “Usually there’s a progression,” Safarik says. “First, prowling, peeping, non-violent paraphilic (sexually deviant) stuff, voyeuristic activities. At some point, offenders decide that’s not enough. They’ll cross that line into fantasy fulfillment. He may have acted out with willing partners initially, prostitutes or others. And then that isn’t enough of a thrill, and he crosses over into non-compliant victims.”

The offender in the latest crimes sounds like someone at the mature end of that progression, Safarik believes.
“He’s comfortable in the environment. He’s breaking in. He’s staying for long periods of time. He’s engaged in other activities – binding, photographing. That isn’t typically behaviour that just starts.”

Safarik suggested that, aside from other violent sex crimes, police will be looking for reports of unsolved “precursor” crimes in places where Williams has lived.
“I would be looking for cases where we tend to see sexual components that aren’t necessarily seen as sex crimes,” he says. “For instance, night-time burglaries where someone’s house is broken into but nothing is stolen. Or fetish-type burglaries, where they’re taking clothing.”

The search will be complicated by several factors, Safarik says. First, there’s Williams’ job.
“He’s in the military. That’s a problem. Not only has he moved around, the people around him have moved around.”
There’s also a massive time gap to fill in.

“I’d be checking back into his late teens. I’d probably start at age 18,” Safarik says. That would leave police poring over cold case files, many of them seemingly minor crimes, going back to early ’70s.
“I’d be running the whole gamut, going deep into this guy’s history,” says Safarik. “I know that’s what they are doing.”


----------



## Nemo888

When I lived in Belleville in 2000 there was a suspicious missing person that I thought was a murder. I thought it was probably someone tied to the base. I don't remember why. Then the 2001 murder confirmed it, at least in many locals minds. Then I moved away and never thought of it again. Where was the Col. in 2000/2001?


----------



## leroi

Condolences to the families, and friends of the victims ... 

Here's hoping it's kept in perspective despite the shock.

Municipal leaders from around the Quinte region met with Gen. Yvan Blondin, Commander of 1 Air Division.

(link in title above~highlights below mine)

The Belleville Intelligencer
February, 9, 2010



> *"What I want out in the community is that we are here to support the men and women at CFB Trenton who continue to work hard on three difficult operations — Haiti, Afghanistan and the Olympics. That's important,''* said Williams.
> 
> The arrest of Col. Williams, said the mayor, should not change that "special relationship.''
> 
> "We rely on each other. We work closely together. These people are our neighbours, friends and family,'' said the mayor. *"This is just one individual who has been charged. It should not be a reflection of how the community perceives the base.''*
> 
> Mayor Neil Ellis said Tuesday's meeting was nothing more than the military underscoring its relationship with the city of Belleville and emphasizing that the lines of communication between the two would remain open. He said the military community is "obviously hurting" and the meeting allowed all the local community leaders to share their thoughts on the situation.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> When I lived in Belleville in 2000 there was a suspicious missing person that I thought was a murder. I thought it was probably someone tied to the base. I don't remember why. Then the 2001 murder confirmed it, at least in many locals minds. Then I moved away and never thought of it again. Where was the Col. in 2000/2001?



Speculation won't help anyone at this point. Let's allow the law enforcement types to do their job and get this solved as quickly and as correctly as possible. Those of us in the CF still have jobs to do so lets carry on and let those better suited solve these crimes.


----------



## The Bread Guy

old medic said:
			
		

> They are just reprinting the official bio, found here;
> http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/8w-8e/page-eng.asp?id=964


Which is why geeks like me PDF them before they disappear get reprinted.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

As with any organization with as many people as the CF employs, you will get occurrences like this.  It is very regretable, but not a reflection of the CF as an organization.  Hopefully, whomever is in charge of headline creation for the various news agencies will bear that in mind.


----------



## tomahawk6

I tried to be subtle when I asked where the presumption of innocence was,because I didnt see it in the news media nor here at army.ca. These charges are a gutshot to his family who if they are smart wont read the public comments in the papers. Whether Colonel Williams is guilty of an offense or not is not up to us to judge at the moment. Give the man some courtesy, if for nothing else his service to Canada. 

When I heard about this case the Duke Lacross rape story came to mind. The students while not very smart events showed they werent guilty of the crime the media and prosecutor condemned them of. In the end everyone had egg on their face and reputations were ruined. I would rather give Colonel Williams the benefit of the doubt now rather than looking like an idiot later.


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Service to your country doesn't exempt one from being a criminal. You're right to suggest withholding judgement and so far I haven't a lot of posters jumping to conclusions. I think that drawing parallels to any other cases - including the Duke Lacrosse case - also leads people to make assumptions. Let's let the case unfold as it will and try to stick to the facts.


----------



## armyvern

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I tried to be subtle when I asked where the presumption of innocence was,because I didnt see it in the news media nor here at army.ca. These charges are a gutshot to his family who if they are smart wont read the public comments in the papers. Whether Colonel Williams is guilty of an offense or not is not up to us to judge at the moment. Give the man some courtesy, if for nothing else his service to Canada.



The same allegations against any citizen would have the exact same effect upon their family.

We can't say on the one hand - "His service to his country has nothing to do with this so leave it out of the equation" ... while on the other hand saying "give the man some courtesy, if for nothing else his service to Canada". That is wanting to have our cake and eat it too.

If the former Comd 8 Wg, had been charged with the exact same things and was the CEO of "Google", Ford, or Bombardier for example ... the headlines would ALL read exactly the same way they are reading now ... "CEO of Bombardier charged with 2 counts of first degree murder" etc etc.

His position and rank within the CF are being mentionned exactly because of "who" he was and the position of authority and trust he held. Exactly as they would be for similar stature public sector or private sector persons who would find themselves charged with like crimes.

So far, the media is stating the facts. I'm hearing a lot of "charged with" and "unsolved major crimes are being revisited in areas where he previously worked" ... those are facts. Those facts are also no different than what would be in the news for anyone else.

So far, I haven't seen a single paper declare him guilty. I have seen a whole whopping lot of articles and newsstories containing statements such as "none of these allegations have been proven in court". I heard those exact same statements in stories long prior to Williams' arrest. In stories about unemployed pers charged with murder, doctors charged with murder, poloticians charged with murder (Colin Thatcher anyone?). 

Of course part of the story is "who he was and what poition he happened to be employed in" just as it would be for anyone else, but so far - I haven't seen a single thing saying any crime occured "*because* he was military or *because* of the position he held".

He is charged with multiple crimes. He has yet to be proven guilty in a court of law. He was employed in a position of authority and trust within the CF. Those are facts. He does not deserve any more "leeway due to service" than the "unemployed plumber charged with multiple murder" or "postal employee charged with multiple counts of murder" would.

And, it is quite "normal" for LE for look back into prior possible associations with other crimes for ANYONE charged with similar crimes.

My thoughts and prayers for the victims' families in these allegations and anyone else affected.  

Just my .02 cents worth.


----------



## PMedMoe

From The Ottawa Citizen 10 minutes ago:

*Accused ruled out as suspect in earlier Trenton case*



> Meanwhile, police on Tuesday ruled out Williams as a suspect in the unsolved 2001 death of Kathleen MacVicar, 19, which happened at CFB Trenton, as investigators sifted through cold cases of missing and slain women at military postings where Williams served during his 23-year career.


----------



## Journeyman

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> .....in 2000 there was a suspicious missing person that I thought was a murder.
> *Where was the Col. in 2000/2001?*


Gee, you could check the Colonel's bio...two whole posts above your query

....or you could live by your own avatar sub-text***



***


> *Nemo888 *
> Stupid people don't know they're stupid.


----------



## rmc_wannabe

> "We rely on each other. We work closely together. These people are our neighbours, friends and family,'' said the mayor. "This is just one individual who has been charged. It should not be a reflection of how the community perceives the base.''



I'm glad someone said it. I was thinking "Ah crap, looks like it's the Somalia/CAR treatment for this current generation."

Hopefully everything is taken care of justly and not at the mercy of media hype.


----------



## armyvern

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> I'm glad someone said it. I was thinking *"Ah crap, looks like it's the Somalia/CAR treatment for this current generation."*
> Hopefully everything is taken care of justly and not at the mercy of media hype.



Really? I haven't seen a single news outlet - electronic, print, or televised - come even close to suggesting that this event is related "*to* his service" or "systemic *of* military *service*" or "*representative of * military *service*".

As I stated earlier - I've yet to see anyone state or imply that any crime occured BECAUSE he was military or even to associate the crimes "with the military". But, I have seen them associate the "suspect himself" with the military and, sadly, that is a fact but is not unlike the fact that would be reported no matter where he worked or no matter the position he held.

Please point out to me where exactly, any media (or member posting here on the site) has associated "the military" with the "commission" of the crimes as was the case with Somalia in the medias insistance on "systemic military problems caused this".  

I have yet to see anyone attempt to "tar the rest of us" with the "accused's brush" as it were.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

> Public Affairs Guidance
> 
> 8 February 2010
> 
> Charges laid against Col Russell WIlliams, 8 wing commander, trenton.
> 
> 
> SITUATION
> 
> On February 8, the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) charged Col Russell Williams, Commander 8 Wing, with two counts of first degree murder and other charges.
> 
> The OPP has the lead, and the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS) has assisted and continues to assist the OPP with their case.
> 
> A news conference was held at 1300hrs on 8 Feb 2010, which involved the OPP Deputy Commissioner, Case Manager and chief of local police. During the news conference, the OPP mentioned that the CFNIS has assisted and continues to assist the OPP as required. The fact that the CFNIS was mentioned demonstrates that the CF is engaged and is taking this issue very seriously.
> 
> A statement by Chief of the Air Staff regarding the arrest was issued through Marketwire at 1530hrs on 8 Feb 2010, to which reference can be made if requests are received for Air Force comment on this issue.
> 
> It is anticipated that this issue will attract interest from the media and the general Canadian public.
> 
> PURPOSE
> 
> This Public Affairs Guidance (PAG) is intended to provide CF members and DND personnel with guidance for dealing with media and public queries related to the arrest of COMD 8 Wing.
> 
> PA GUIDANCE
> 
> All are reminded that, in accordance with DAOD 2008-2, *CF members and DND employees should not offer personal opinion or comment on details related to these projects that fall outside of their areas of expertise or responsibility*. This also applies to base newspapers.
> Media Queries
> 
> It is reasonable to expect the media to request interviews with and invite comments from members of DND/CF.  The best way to ensure that queries are addressed by the appropriate DND/CF spokesperson and that key leaders remain informed, is to refer questions from reporters to the MLO at 1-866-377-0811 (anywhere in Canada) // 613-996-2353 (locally and international).
> 
> The MLO is the coordination centre for media that have any questions related to DND/CF.  The office is always manned and is run after hours on a duty officer basis.  The reporter’s request is then logged and sent to the appropriate account(s) for action.
> 
> A biography and photo of Commander 8 Wing are available on the 8 Wing website: http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/8w-8e/page-eng.asp?id=964
> Beyond this, *CF members cannot comment or speculate on this serious issue *  due to the ongoing investigation and legal proceedings.
> 
> Questions about the police investigation should be directed to the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP). Constable Chris Dewsbury, Northumberland OPP, 613-475-1313.



Highlights are mine.

Feel free to interpret the directive as you see fit. Seems pretty clear, cut and dried to me.

Now, Milnet.ca takes your privacy and confidentiality seriously. Having said that, anyone that thinks they are anonymous on the internet, Milnet notwithstanding, better think again.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## ltmaverick25

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> I'm glad someone said it. I was thinking "Ah crap, looks like it's the Somalia/CAR treatment for this current generation."
> 
> Hopefully everything is taken care of justly and not at the mercy of media hype.



I really dont think we have to worry about the airborne consequences happening in this case.  We are living in different times now.  As a result of Afghanistan, the Canadian public has become much fonder of its military and, in particular, seems to have adopted the army in a special way.

This simply was not the case back in the early 90s.  Its ironic, because back in the 90s the CF was engaged in peacekeeping missions that make the public feel all warm and fuzzy, and yet, we didnt see the type of support and admiration that we do now, while engaged in a warfighting mission - something that Canadians tend not to feel warm and fuzzy about.


----------



## FSTO

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Really? I haven't seen a single news outlet - electronic, print, or televised - come even close to suggesting that this event is related "*to* his service" or "systemic *of* military *service*" or "*representative of * military *service*".
> 
> As I stated earlier - I've yet to see anyone state or imply that any crime occured BECAUSE he was military or even to associate the crimes "with the military". But, I have seen them associate the "suspect himself" with the military and, sadly, that is a fact but is not unlike the fact that would be reported no matter where he worked or no matter the position he held.
> 
> Please point out to me where exactly, any media (or member posting here on the site) has associated "the military" with the "commission" of the crimes as was the case with Somalia in the medias insistance on "systemic military problems caused this".
> 
> I have yet to see anyone attempt to "tar the rest of us" with the "accused's brush" as it were.



You may want to read this Vern.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/murder-charges-may-unfairly-tarnish-militarys-reputation/article1462181/


----------



## armyvern

FSTO said:
			
		

> You may want to read this Vern.
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/murder-charges-may-unfairly-tarnish-militarys-reputation/article1462181/



Note the title of the article you linked. Note the word "unfairly".

Now read the article and see where (ie who) the comments regarding "this may very well tarnish ...". Not exactly your average Canadian "without" an agenda is he?. One man's comment.

Now, the overall gist of _that_ article is is a reminder to "*NOT * tar us all with the same brush". 



> But unless and until such evidence emerges, the military, like the accused, should be presumed innocent.


----------



## FSTO

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Note the title of the article you linked. Note the word "unfairly".
> 
> Now read the article and see where (ie who) the comments regarding "this may very well tarnish ...". Not exactly your average Canadian "without" an agenda is he?. One man's comment.
> 
> Now, the overall gist of _that_ article is is a reminder to "*NOT * tar us all with the same brush".



Oh I see that Ibbitson does the CYA thing at the end. But even interviewing Staples (who has an agenda as big as a CVN) goes a long wasy (to me) towards displaying this reporters true colours.


----------



## leroi

The case against the colonel: 'Lingerie break-ins' and a 'treasure trove' of photo evidence 

(Here reproduced in accordance with the Fair Dealing provision (29) of the Copyright Act.)

 Christie Blatchford

Published on Wednesday, Feb. 10, 2010 12:00AM EST Last updated on Wednesday, Feb. 10, 2010 8:13AM EST


Colonel Russell Williams has given police a lengthy and wide-ranging statement about four dozen so-called "lingerie break-ins," two home invasions that turned into bizarre sexual assaults last September, and the murders of two young women, one a military steward with whom he may have flown. Several sources have also told The Globe and Mail that the 46-year-old commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton took detectives to the body of Jessica Lloyd, a 27-year-old who suddenly disappeared on Jan. 29 after texting a friend she had safely arrived home. The Globe has also learned that while Col. Williams was in countless photographs in the base newspaper, The Contact, since taking over the job last summer - there is hardly an issue without at least several pictures of the lantern-jawed veteran - more ominously, he was also an avid amateur photographer. Sources say that he photographed the murders and sexual attacks. His computer, once examined by forensic specialists, is expected to yield what one source called "a treasure trove" of evidence.

After Sunday's extraordinary interview with officers from the OPP's criminal behavioural analysis section, Col. Williams was formally charged with two murders - Ms. Lloyd's and the Nov. 25 slaying of Corporal Marie-France Comeau - and the two unusual sexual assaults in nearby Tweed, Ont., last fall.

The key officer in the room was Detective-Sergeant Jim Smith, who last year had obtained a statement in the abduction and murder of eight-year-old Tori Stafford of Woodstock, Ont., last summer. According to those close to the investigation, Col. Williams' statement was delivered in a crisp, almost business-like fashion, less out of contrition, it appeared, than out of a sense of duty ingrained during a 22-year military career. Because of his seeming frankness and willingness to talk to investigators, while police are checking into other unsolved cases at bases where Col. Williams was previously posted, he isn't considered a suspect in any of those.

Yet all the while he was allegedly and abruptly acting out his fantasies, Col. Williams was also filling his calendar with the busy quasi-social whirl of a base commander, a role with a huge grip-and-grin component. Between the Nov. 25 slaying last year of Corp. Comeau and the disappearance of Ms. Lloyd late last month, for instance, Col. Williams was cheerfully posing with a variety of visiting base guests, among them Santa Claus and former Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier, then on his book tour; taking part in myriad events, including a "jail and bail" charity fundraiser in which he was photographed being arrested and put behind fake bars for "being too young to be a Wing Commander," kicking off a curling bonspiel, and writing a year-end letter to the men and women under his command.

Ms. Lloyd was abducted from her house, the tire tracks left behind in the snow the first link police ever had - though they didn't know it at first - to the eminently respectable base commander.  Last Thursday, police set up a version of the familiar RIDE spot check, a sort of mobile version of a door-to-door search, along rural Highway 37, which runs north from Highway 401 at Belleville to the municipality of Tweed. They were looking to match the unusual tire treads found outside Ms. Lloyd's house. Col. Williams, behind the wheel of his Pathfinder and not the BMW people most often saw him drive, happened to get caught in that roadside check. If it was the first indication he could have been involved, it was not the last.  The 37-year-old Corp. Comeau had been under his command; Ms. Lloyd lived just off Highway 37 close to Belleville, and the two women who were sexually assaulted in September lived on the street in Tweed, Cozy Cove Lane, where Col. Williams and his wife, who works in Ottawa and lives there during the week, have a cottage. Detectives also had descriptions of lingerie and other intimate souvenirs reported missing by the two Tweed women who were assaulted in their homes last fall. Although the victims' faces were covered, as was their attacker's, they were able to tell police that they had been "posed" and photographed by their assailant.

Given the sudden escalation in violence between the September break-ins/assaults and the lethal attack upon Corp. Comeau in November, police believed at first they likely were dealing with two different perpetrators. Corp. Comeau was a steward on Prime Minister Stephen Harper's visit to India in early November. By the time the Prime Minister headed to China the next month, her body had been discovered by her boyfriend in her Brighton, Ont., home.  Given the statistics on domestic murders, suspicion naturally fell upon the boyfriend, at least in the public eye and among the air crew who were on the PM's flight to China, but a search of his home quashed that, sources told The Globe, and he was quickly cleared by police.

It is the dichotomy between the commander's accomplished life and the allegations against him now which has left those who knew or worked for him reeling. He is described by subordinates as both friendly and thoroughly professional.  Although the job of commander kept Col. Williams so busy he was often the last to leave the office, he also continued to fly the CC150 Airbuses that are flown by 437 Squadron, Corp. Comeau's squadron, to keep his pilot status current.


----------



## Journeyman

leroi said:
			
		

> The Globe has also learned that .....more ominously, he was also an avid amateur photographer.


I'm not sure which point is more worthy of a facepalm, the Globe's _brilliant_ sleuthing (his photography interest is in his official bio), or that clearly one shouldn't trust those amateur photographers.

Yes, I caught the point about the victims being posed for photographs. I just think the "ominous" is a bit over the top.

As for Staples' comment, I think even he realized he had nothing of value to say; he just felt a need to mumble _anything_ potentially anti-military.



Although I do have concerns about stamp-collectors.....and those alleged bird-watchers   rly:


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Little late but......

 Media Advisory
Media Availability with Chief of the Defence Staff
MA – 10.005 - February 10, 2010

8 Wing/CFB Trenton – There will be a media availability today with General Walt Natynczyk, Chief of the Defence Staff.

WHEN:  4:30 p.m., February 10, 2010
WHERE:  Passenger Terminal off Highway 2, 8 Wing/CFB Trenton

-30-

For more information:

Capt Annie Morin, 8 Wing/CFB Trenton Public Affairs Officer
Tel: (613) 392-2811, ext. 4565, Cell: (613) 243-7330
E-mail:  annie.morin@forces.gc.ca


----------



## The Bread Guy

http://bit.ly/bGwQ5f


----------



## the 48th regulator

Reproduced in accordance with the Fair Dealing provision (29) of the Copyright Act.



Chief of defence staff to comment on charges against Col. Russell Williams

(CP) – 2 hours ago

CFB TRENTON, Ont. — Chief of Defence Staff Walter Natynczyk will speak to the media at CFB Trenton, Ont., this afternoon about the first-degree murder and sexual assault charges against Col. Russell Williams.

Williams - the commander of CFB Trenton - is charged in the deaths of Jessica Lloyd of Belleville, whose body was found Monday near Tweed, and the Nov. 25 death of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, whose body was found in her Brighton home.

Williams is also charged in two sexual assaults in Tweed in September and will appear in court via video on Feb. 18.

Lloyd's funeral will be held on Saturday afternoon in Belleville.

Belleville lawyer John Wonnacott, who represented Williams at his court appearance Monday, said he has not been retained to represent Williams.

But he did say Williams is in civilian, not military custody.

_Copyright © 2010 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved._


----------



## the 48th regulator

Reproduced in accordance with the Fair Dealing provision (29) of the Copyright Act.

Accused colonel's past in Manitoba to be probed

Unsolved disappearance of woman in 1992 could be examined

Last Updated: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 | 2:22 PM CT

CBC News - Col. Russell Williams, centre, speaks to Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Walter Natynczyk, left, and Defence Minister Peter MacKay during a visit to CFB Trenton on Jan. 17.Col. Russell Williams, centre, speaks to Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Walter Natynczyk, left, and Defence Minister Peter MacKay during a visit to CFB Trenton on Jan. 17. (Combat Camera)

The investigation into a military commander charged with murder in the deaths of two women will extend to places he has lived in the past, including Portage La Prairie, Man.

Col. Russell Williams, 46, of Tweed, Ont., the top commander at 8 Wing CFB Trenton, was arrested Sunday in Ottawa.

He has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38.
Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38, left, was slain Nov. 25, 2009. The body of Jessica Lloyd, 27, right, was found by police Monday morning.Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38, left, was slain Nov. 25, 2009. The body of Jessica Lloyd, 27, right, was found by police Monday morning. (Canadian Press)

Williams was stationed in Portage La Prairie, about 70 kilometres west of Winnipeg, between 1990 and 1992.

Ontario Provincial Police Sgt. Kristine Rae said the investigation would eventually review unsolved crimes in locations where Williams has lived. But right now it is focused on the current charges before the courts, she said.

"A time period before we start reviewing other unsolved crimes? I can't give you that," she said. "I just know it's going to take quite a bit of time for that to be done.

"But as the investigation progresses we're going to be reviewing other areas of where he has been located to see if there's any unsolved crime, and compare those to see if there's any similarities to what we have here."
Woman missing in Manitoba

The Ontario police have received inquiries from law enforcement agencies in some of the locations Williams has been stationed in during his career, but she would not say if any of those came from Manitoba.

However, there is at least one outstanding case from Winnipeg during that time. Janice Louise Howe, 35, was last seen leaving her parents' Fort Garry home in August 1992.

Her car was found the following morning near Kenora, Ont., but she has never been found.

Retired RCMP superintendent and criminal profiler Glenn Woods said that in cases of serial sex-offenders, police use the violent crime linkage system to look for unsolved crimes with similarities to the offender's other crimes.

"If you have an offender … who you feel has done something like this in [their] mid-40s, they didn't just wake up this year and decide that they're going to do that," he said.

"These are thoughts and fantasies they've had for years and years."

Woods said police also look for similarities in how the crime is carried out, for example, the things the offender does to try to keep from getting caught.

"So if you have someone who is a sexual sadist, you will see elements of sexual sadism in almost all their crimes, depending on how much they are allowed to get away with," he said.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/02/10/mb-williams-investigation-portage-manitoba.html#ixzz0fAkI1iTI

Link to Official Winnipeg Police Services Janice Louise Howe information


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Military in 'shock' over colonel's arrest: Natynczyk
Last Updated: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 | 5:07 PM ET 
CBC News  

The Canadian military is in a "state of shock" after the head of CFB Trenton was charged with murder and two violent home invasions, Canada's chief of defence staff says.

Gen. Walter Natynczyk spoke to the media Wednesday afternoon after he and Lt.-Gen André Deschamps, chief of air staff for the Canadian Forces, addressed the troops at CFB Trenton in eastern Ontario, where Col. Russell Williams was base commander.

Williams, 46, of Tweed, Ont., was arrested Sunday in Ottawa. He has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38.

Williams is also facing charges in two sexual assaults that happened in Tweed in September.

Natynczyk said it felt like a "body blow" when he heard that a senior officer had been charged with murder.

"We've put additional rigour over the past five years into the selection of our leadership.... it's a sacred trust,” he said.

He added that some military personnel based at CFB Trenton are reluctant to go out into the community in their uniforms right now, but he has told them they can be proud to wear them.

"We can't go back, we go forward. And we are proud, proud to wear our uniform," he said.

Natynczyk himself went to a local Tim Hortons on Wednesday in his uniform to make that point.

He said his thoughts went out to the community and the family and friends of Lloyd and Comeau.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay was not available for comment Wednesday, but a spokesman said the minister’s thoughts are with the families of the victims, adding that the Canadian Forces are co-operating fully with the investigation.


----------



## 2 Cdo

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> As I stated earlier - I've yet to see anyone state or imply that any crime occured BECAUSE he was military or even to associate the crimes "with the military".



You must have missed the comments section on CBC's site before they were closed. Not many, but there was a few who directly blamed the military and it's training for his actions.


----------



## benny88

That other video link was dead. Here's the video of the CDS' press conference at 8 Wing.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/ID=1410151296


----------



## The Bread Guy

I can't believe what I'm reading out there.  

It's not much, and I'm only one person, but if you're in the CF, know that I'm not alone in  thinking it's not fair painting ANY group for the actions of one or two members.  I know as a group, you're decent, hard working folks, helping keep Canada safe and help others who need help.  Thanks for the hard work and sacrifice, and try not to take counsel from the idiots who don't know any better.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Reproduced in accordance with the Fair Dealing provision (29) of the Copyright Act.

Police study links to other unsolved crimes

OPP receive calls from across Canada

Canwest News ServiceFebruary 11, 2010 6:14 AM



The Ontario Provincial Police said Wednesday they have been receiving calls from across Canada since Col. Russell Williams' arrest, and are continuing to investigate other cases for links.

"We have had calls from different (police) services; we've also had calls from families of victims whose crimes have gone unsolved. It is a wide majority of locations," said Sgt. Kristine Rae.

Toronto cold case investigators are investigating whether Williams may be connected to two unsolved killings, according to one of the victims' brothers.

- Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice

In 1983, Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice were sexually assaulted and killed within four months of each another in downtown Toronto. DNA evidence revealed that both women had been killed by the same man.

Gilmour's brother, Sean McCowan, told Global News he called Det.-Sgt. Steve Ryan of the Toronto Police Cold Case Squad on Tuesday.

"(Ryan) just mentioned that the colonel is a person of interest and they're going to take a look at it," McCowan said.

Williams graduated with a degree in economics and political science from the University of Toronto in 1987.



Police in Halifax are also reviewing three cold cases, according to media reports.

Williams was posted to the Shearwater base near Halifax from 1992 to 1994. During that time, police report three unsolved homicides.

- Andrea King, 18

On Jan. 1, 1992, Andrea King, 18, flew to Halifax, N.S., from New Westminister, B.C., to find work. She called her sister from the Halifax airport and said she intended to stay at a hostel. She was to phone her family the next day, but was not heard from again. Despite a year-long missing person investigation being conducted in Halifax and New Westminister, B.C., no trace of King was found and police were unable to positively identify anyone who had contact with her after her arrival in Nova Scotia.

On Dec. 22, 1992, her skeletal remains were found in a wooded area in Lower Sackville, N.S. The cause of death was determined to be a homicide.



- Shelley Denise Connors, 17

Shelley Connors went missing from her Halifax home on May 29, 1993, and was reported missing by her mother the following day. Her body was discovered in a wooded area of Spryfield, N.S., on June 1, 1993, partially covered with leaves and branches. The Nova Scotia government is offering a $150,000 reward in the case.



- Kimber Leanne Lucas, 25

Kimber Leanne Lucas was last seen on Nov. 23, 1994, early on the day of her death. Lucas was known on the Halifax streets as a heavy drug user and was seven months pregnant. Her body was discovered behind a building on North Street near Agricola Street. The Nova Scotia government is offering a $150,000 reward in the case.



Williams was posted to Ottawa and CFB Trenton around the time that Kathleen MacVicar, 19, was slain at Trenton in 2001.

- Kathleen MacVicar, 19

Kathleen MacVicar was seen for the last time leaving on foot from a friend's residence. Two days later, on June 15, 2001, her body was discovered on Canadian Forces Base Trenton. MacVicar had been raped and stabbed.

The OPP clarified Wednesday that Williams has not been ruled out as a suspect in the death of MacVicar, a native of Nova Scotia, despite an assertion from MacVicar's mother that she was told Williams has been ruled out.

On Wednesday, police told Canwest News Service they have not explored whether there is a connection because they have not examined the cold case files.

In 1990, Williams had his first posting at the central flight school in Portage la Prairie, Man., near Winnipeg.

- Glenda Morrisseau, 19

Glenda Morrisseau, a student at R.B. Russell School, was last seen on July 17, 1991, at 2:30 a.m. in Winnipeg hitchhiking. She was reported missing by her sister several days later when she did not return home.

After nearly a month of searching, Morrisseau's partially naked and battered body was discovered on Aug. 7, 1991, in a St. Boniface industrial area, about five kilometres from where she was last seen. The cause of death was not easily determinable, but there was considerable damage to her face including fractured cheekbones, a broken jaw and a fractured eye socket. As such she may have died as a result of massive trauma to the head inflicted by a large blunt object.

It is believed that Morrisseau was killed on or about July 17, 1991, shortly after she was last seen.

_© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen_[/color]





To view official Police Reports, please click victims' names.

dileas

tess


----------



## Journeyman

Police due diligence, in checking cold cases, is to be expected. 

Media reporting of each and every one, regardless of how remote the possibility, will just provide more fuel to those pre-disposed to see this tragedy as the inevitable result of military brainwashing. You know the ruling out of a slaying isn't going to get near the same headline as a possible one.  

The mouth-breathers will see a continuing list of potentially-connected victims, and think "darn Cletus, them there military fellas kill a lot of women."

:


----------



## the 48th regulator

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Police due diligence, in checking cold cases, is to be expected.
> 
> Media reporting of each and every one, regardless of how remote the possibility, will just provide more fuel to those pre-disposed to see this tragedy as the inevitable result of military brainwashing. You know the ruling out of a slaying isn't going to get near the same headline as a possible one.
> 
> The mouth-breathers will see a continuing list of potentially-connected victims, and think "darn Cletus, them there military fellas kill a lot of women."
> 
> :



So if he is guilty, as "Reported" by his confession, the Military would actually be another of his victims.

Burying our heads in the sand, hoping that this is all a dream, will not stop Cletus making his mind up.  You painting the majority of Canadian citizens as lemmings, falling off the cliff of Media reports, is not fair either.

dileas

tess


----------



## kratz

This morning's Ottawa Citizen  is reporting additional  international attention has to this story is being covered by:

Germany's [ur=http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/2010/02/09/militaer-skandal-kanada/star-offizier-wegen-mordes-angeklagt.htmll]Bild newspaper[/url], and

Australia's Courier Mail newpaper.

This follows on the heels of the UK, France and USA reporting on the story as mentioned in an earlier post.


----------



## Journeyman

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Burying our heads in the sand, hoping that this is all a dream, will not stop Cletus making his mind up.  You painting the majority of Canadian citizens as lemmings, falling off the cliff of Media reports, is not fair either.


I guess we travel in different circles. 

I suspect a large percentage of people form their opinions based on scanning headlines, hearing radio sound-bytes, and what they hear at Timmies. I do not believe that a majority of people think too deeply, considering second- and third-order effects, about current events -- including this one.

So I'm not saying all Canadians fit the tin-hat stereotype (as seen regularly in comments at CBC-online). I _am_ saying that sensationalist reporting sells media; repeatedly headlining "potential CF serial killer links," while subsequently delegating "nope, no link" to page 28, will have a negative effect on your average Canadian's opinion.



I won't even get into you comparing the CF's "victimhood" with what these women's families are going through -- we both know you know better.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Media reporting of each and every one, regardless of how remote the possibility, will just provide more fuel to those pre-disposed to see this tragedy as the inevitable result of military brainwashing.



With any luck, a distinction between a murdering sociopath and a military member will not be that hard to draw.  None of the other serial killers/rapists in Canada has been a career military member.  
And yes, we all know nothing has been proven in court yet.  "Alleged crimes" blah blah blah.  
How soon until his DNA test comes back?  That will either completely clear the colonel or the case will be a slam dunk.


----------



## F.I.R.S.T.

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> With any luck, a distinction between a murdering sociopath and a military member will not be that hard to draw.  None of the other serial killers/rapists in Canada has been a career military member.



To look at it from the other side as well, None of the other many thousands of CF miltary personnel have turned out to be serial killers yet either.  :nod:


----------



## OldSolduer

I can pretty much guarantee if he were doctor, lawyer or plumber, his profession would not be an issue.


----------



## F.I.R.S.T.

Big Silverback said:
			
		

> I can pretty much guarantee if he were doctor, lawyer or plumber, his profession would not be an issue.



I disagree with this. Harold Shipman, a British doctor had his profession mentioned in almost every news story, and how it allowed him access to a steady supply of victims. I'd suggest a criminal lawyers profession would be equally covered in part due to a ready access of criminal knowledge and contacts.  Lastly, I believe a plumber's profession would be mentioned because most of the general public let these kinds of tradespeople inside their homes without a second thought.


----------



## OldSolduer

F.I.R.S.T. said:
			
		

> I disagree with this. Harold Shipman, a British doctor had his profession mentioned in almost every news story, and how it allowed him access to a steady supply of victims. I'd suggest a criminal lawyers profession would be equally covered in part due to a ready access of criminal knowledge and contacts.  Lastly, I believe a plumber's profession would be mentioned because most of the general public let these kinds of tradespeople inside their homes without a second thought.



On those points, yes, but *some members * of the general public see it differently. They automatically associate the military with the murder and its all because we are "brainwashed".


----------



## kratz

In my opinion, today's CBC.ca's headline is attempting to stir up sensational negative reactions to the military.




> Anti-military backlash feared in Trenton
> Troops express concerns to Gen. Walter Natynczyk
> 
> Last Updated: Thursday, February 11, 2010 | 10:55 AM ET
> 
> 
> Murder and sexual assault charges against the former commander of CFB Trenton have sparked worries of an anti-military backlash in the area.
> 
> Col. Russell Williams is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of two eastern Ontario women. He is also charged in two sexual assaults on two other women.
> 
> Callers to a radio show in Belleville said Wednesday that someone spat on a soldier from CFB Trenton, and another soldier was roughed up.
> 
> Some troops raised their concerns with the country's top soldier, Gen. Walter Natynczyk, on Wednesday when he came to the base, going so far as to ask if they should avoid wearing their uniforms in public.
> 
> "And I told all those airmen I'm going to Tim Hortons with my uniform. And sure enough, someone from Trenton came up and said I put this into perspective. 'You guys are great,' [they said]. And I just said thanks," said Natynczyk.



More at link

Also, this is one of the few MSM stories that is allowing reader comments.


----------



## OldSolduer

I don't live in Trenton, but having been there, I don't think the local population is going to go "anti-military".

There are going to be idiots out there though.


----------



## Haggis

kratz said:
			
		

> More at link
> Also, this is one of the few MSM stories that is allowing reader comments.



And there's many more folks bashing the CBC than the CF.


----------



## vonGarvin

I grew up as a child of civilians in the shadow of CFB Trenton.  If nothing else, the people of the Belleville to Brighton area are as shocked as any military member in Astra Ontario.   My friends and family who still live there are absolutely dumbfounded.  Not one iota of anti-military sentiment from any of them.  Instead, understandably, total shock.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Big Silverback said:
			
		

> I can pretty much guarantee if he were doctor, lawyer or plumber, his profession would not be an issue.



That is hogwash.

His Occupation, more so his position, is relevent.

It is the public's fascination with the he Macabre.  We have multiple shows based on Forensics.  Dexter, a series about a serial Killer, has been a crowd favourite.  Bernardo drew just as much, if not more, media hype when the news first broke out.

Does the fact that he served add to the the feeding frenzy?  Of course it does.  Here we have a person, accused of being a predator of humans, who holds a very senior position in the Military.  He is able to travel, without suspicion, and very easily.  Can have a very private, and clandestine lifestyle, due to his position, if he chooses.  And has a way to hide his other self, much easier than the plumber.

Jekyll and Hyde, people have two completely different lives, another fascination for people.

Short of a few "opinion" pieces, I would say that the media, and citizens', love affair with the military image has not taken a major hit.

dileas

tess


----------



## 40below

I was on base in Kingston on Monday when the news was still breaking and among those in uniform, the shock was palpable. I hadn't seen anything like it.

In the days since, as my job involves dealing with people across the country and many of whom know I cover the military, I have heard a similar outpouring from people with no military connections and who live in places with no military footprint – and mostly women now that I think about it. They brought up the breach of (implied) trust by someone with that level of authority and position, and I think it is absolutely relevant to the case, in the way it would not have been if it were a master corporal, say. You can't even take away the uniform and make comparisons to those not in uniform because there is none. 

A base commander wields a lot more authority over those under his command than any civilian counterpart, say my mayor or my MPP has over me, and is about the closest we have in this society to a seigneur. It would be a big story if it were a mayor; it is a bigger story because it is a high-ranking military officer. Any idiot can be elected mayor. There are no psych tests, personnel reports or 20 years of documented background considered. It's shocking because the military does not allow this to happen and would have denied promotion or outright released/charged someone with a history or even a strong suspicion of such conduct. The question will remain, what happened?

That said, I haven't heard anyone extrapolating his conduct to the armed forces as a whole, but the issue is how anyone in this POSITION was able to do what he is accused of. Stressing the last bit, but we're talking optics, not legalities here.


----------



## OldSolduer

What I'm saying if the accused was a doctor et al, the hype would be right up there, that I agree with.

What I am saying is that the CBC et al would not be attempting to paint the entire medical community or whatever community with the same brush. 

BTW, did anyone see the CBC interview of the CDS on the National last night? I thought it was an attempted crucifixion of the CDS.
Or am I being overly critical?


----------



## 1feral1

Shocking and interesting.

I will be keeping an eye open down here if this story (it might have already) goes international.

OWDU


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Fair dealings and all.

http://www.windsorstar.com/news/Review+into+cadet+death+urged/2550058/story.html



> Review into cadet's death urged
> 
> 
> By Chris Thompson, The Windsor StarFebruary 11, 2010
> 
> When Ron Grozelle was reading stories about the shocking murder charges against a high-ranking military base commander in Trenton earlier this week, a certain fact in the stories jumped out at him.
> 
> Col. Russell Williams, a decorated pilot and commander at Canadian Forces Base Trenton now facing murder and sexual assault charges, was at the Royal Military College in Kingston at the same time Grozelle's son Joe went missing and was later found dead.
> 
> Joe Grozelle was a 21-year-old RMC cadet who was last seen alive on Oct. 22, 2003. His body was found in the Cataraqui River three weeks later.
> 
> Williams, 46, was at RMC from August 2003 until June 2004 working on a masters degree in defence studies.
> 
> "There is some evidence that he was at RMC during the time that Joe went missing," said Grozelle Wednesday from his home in Chatham-Kent.
> 
> "All I'm looking for is the authorities to take a review of that time period and see where he was and what activities were involved, was he on campus, was he in classrooms with some of the students, in the dorms, just to see if there's any type of potential connection there."
> 
> Williams has been charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Belleville resident Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Marie-France Comeau, 38, a corporal from the base Williams commanded.
> 
> He has also been charged with sexual assault and forcible confinement in connection with two other cases where the female victims were bound naked to their chairs and photographed by the suspect.
> 
> The OPP and other police agencies are investigating unsolved cases in other places where Williams lived during his 23-year military career.
> 
> Joe Grozelle's death was the subject of an inquest in 2007 that revealed no new information and failed to determine a cause of death.
> 
> Ron Grozelle concedes the nature of the crimes Williams is accused of don't conform to Joe's death, but he believes a probe is still warranted.
> 
> "I mean the crimes that he (Williams) is alleged to have committed doesn't seem to fit bringing Joe's case into the picture here because there were women and sexual things," Grozelle said.
> 
> "Not to say though that, for example, if Joe happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and saw something, you know, who knows?"
> 
> Grozelle said he is willing to be patient as police conduct their investigations into the most recent crimes, but hopes to hear from police soon.
> 
> "I know there is the immediate issue and the charges that he's been charged with at this point but there needs to be a review of what happened while he was at RMC as well."
> 
> © Copyright (c) The Windsor Star


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

The  Joe Grozelle thread.


----------



## mariomike

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> In 1983, Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice were sexually assaulted and killed within four months of each another in downtown Toronto. DNA evidence revealed that both women had been killed by the same man.



If - repeat if - these 1983 cases are linked to the 2009/2010 cases, there will be nothing like it - for distance in time - in Canadian history, as far as I can see. Even linking murders committed more than a few years apart seems quite rare:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_country#Canada


----------



## GAP

Big Silverback said:
			
		

> BTW, did anyone see the CBC interview of the CDS on the National last night? I thought it was an attempted crucifixion of the CDS.
> Or am I being overly critical?



Almost as bad as that twit Jane Tabor/Tonda McCharles? on PowerPlay...she was bound and determined to nail the CDS as being phoney.....strangely everyone poo-poo'd her bullshit


----------



## FSTO

Big Silverback said:
			
		

> What I'm saying if the accused was a doctor et al, the hype would be right up there, that I agree with.
> 
> What I am saying is that the CBC et al would not be attempting to paint the entire medical community or whatever community with the same brush.
> 
> BTW, did anyone see the CBC interview of the CDS on the National last night? I thought it was an attempted crucifixion of the CDS.
> Or am I being overly critical?


Yep, I was yelling at the TV again. Wife comes down says WTF are you doing and then sees that the National is on, shakes her head and goes back upstairs.


----------



## observor 69

FSTO said:
			
		

> Yep, I was yelling at the TV again. Wife comes down says WTF are you doing and then sees that the National is on, shakes her head and goes back upstairs.



Ya I'll second that. I thought the CDS did a good job of keeping his cool and giving smart answers to attack/aggressive questions. Every time I see a media type start this style of interview they take a big drop in my respect. 
I watched the CBC supper hour news with a report on the OPP starting a search of Col. Williams  home in Ottawa. Poor old journalist had to really stretch it out to fill his air time.
It looks to me like this story for the present is running out of news to keep it alive.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/02/11/12846096-qmi.html

Russ Williams on suicide watch: Report
By ROB TRIPP, QMI Agency

Last Updated: 11th February 2010, 9:10pm
 (LUKE HENDRY/QMI Agecny) KINGSTON, Ont. -

 A senior air force commander charged with murdering two women was placed on a suicide watch when he arrived at a provincial jail in Napanee because of his bizarre behaviour, QMI Agency has learned. 
Col. Russell Williams was acting as though he was a prisoner of war when he was first processed at the Quinte Detention Centre. He would only give authorities his name, rank and serial number. 

Williams was assessed by a psychiatrist and he was deemed a possible suicide risk. His demeanor has been described as “cocky” but “vacant.” 
He was given a tear and burn-proof outfit, known among jail workers as an “oven mitt” or “baby doll” to wear. 
It is a thick gown, made from an impervious material, with holes for arms and head. The wearer is stripped of personal clothing, including underwear and other personal effects. 

Williams was placed in a segregation cell where he could be monitored continually by security staff and where he had no privacy. The suicide watch segregation cell does not have a screen or covering over the barred front so that staff can see inside at all times. 
Williams’ mattress was removed in the daytime and returned only at night. 

On Wednesday, Williams was allowed to exchange his suicide gown for a regular, orange jumpsuit that is issued to most prisoners at Quinte, a crowded provincial holding and remand centre. Most of the inmates at the facility are awaiting trial. 
Built to hold nearly 100 inmates, Quinte is often jammed with 300 or more prisoners. In some cases, inmates sleep on mattresses in hallways or placed on the floor of cells. 
Williams remains in a segregation cell by himself with no contact with other inmates. 

He has spoken very little and often refuses to make eye contact with jail staff. 
His next court appearance will be by video link from the detention centre. Inmates are taken to a room in the centre where they stand in front of a camera, monitor and telephone that is part of a network connected to provincial courthouses. 

The system allows routine remands to be conducted without the expense and time of shuttling prisoners from jails to court buildings. 
Defence lawyers are still able to talk to the accused on a secure phone line. 

rtripp@thewhig.com


----------



## leroi

Ya, I'll third that:

I shouldn't have watched--it made me so angry.  

The accusatory tone that woman took with the General made her look like a shrew and the General like an angel.

She might as well have just gone right over and slapped him in the face.

How much worse could she have tried to make him feel by asking him if he felt responsible for the deaths?

How much worse could she try to make him feel by asking him repeatedly if there is something he should have noticed about RW to prevent the murders?

As if the CDS is possessed of a God-like omnipotence; a modern day soothsayer.

That reporter deliberately attempted to emotionally manipulate the General into a position to make him feel bad.

And, where is the reporter's objectivity in this? Is it the reporters job to make the news or record the news?

Well, she just made the news because her aggressiveness ruined a perfect opportunity for a decent interview. 

Her combative style upstaged the news and denied the audience. 

Why is the media jumping to the question of 'how the military let this happen" before the police have released information about exactly "what happened?"

A case against the colonel is yet to be proved-he still has rights.

We don't yet even know that the colonel is a serial killer but if it turns out to be so then the media needs to realize serial killers are usually highly 

intelligent and hide behind a mask of sanity--even to the point that they fool their own life partners, their mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers.

Sarcasm: Should American law enforcement have predicted Ted Bundy?  After all that's a behavioral science investigative teams' job too.  

I hope someone holds a press conference for aggressive media types & delivers the news flash that predicting human behaviour is not an exact science.

General Natynczyk was a gentleman and displayed grace under pressure throughout the interview. God bless him.

(I'm outta here before I blow a gasket!!!)


----------



## ballz

Where is this video of the interview with the abrasive reporter? I clicked benny's and milnews's links but I don't think those are the one you're all speaking of? Didn't you all say it was a female journalist that was being very abrasive with him?


----------



## OldSolduer

To answer your question, ballz, it was Susan Ormiston. She was very aggressive with the questions, almost "in your face". She was to the point of being obnoxious and rude.


----------



## JesseWZ

I did some digging on the CBC.ca site (blargh.) Here is the link to the National Video on the interview between the reporter in question and the CDS.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/TV_Shows/The_National/Canada/ID=1410315526


----------



## armyvern

All righty then --- I just watched Mr Mansbridge on The National - live from Vancouver - announcing "breaking news" ... "that the CBC has uncovered that the Col has written a confession and that he led the police to Ms. Lloyd's remains."

Uhmmm, CBC - don't you read Ms. Blatchford in the Globe & Mail - she's got a 24 hour head start on you.

Given the CBC reading this thread as guests, and given that Ms. Blatchford's article is here in this thread ... so was obviously seen ... 

Just _one more _ reason to flick to another channel. 

Scroll over to the 7:15 minute mark.

http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/watch/

 :


----------



## ballz

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> I did some digging on the CBC.ca site (blargh.) Here is the link to the National Video on the interview between the reporter in question and the CDS.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/TV_Shows/The_National/Canada/ID=1410315526



Thanks a lot... I will refrain from posting my thoughts on such a public forum as I might just get out of line. :-X

Ohhh what I could say over a cold brew though...


----------



## old medic

The media is falling over themselves, and even quoting each other's speculation as facts.
Better to wait for real facts from the investigation team now.   Some of the articles I took a 
look at today were below poor quality. 

Other articles are so speculative, they sound like an early episode of "The Simpsons".



> Sax: What seems to be the problem officers?
> Officer Eddie: That's enough out of you smart guy.
> Officer Lou: [pointing his gun] Reach for your license...[cock's gun] slowly.
> Officer Eddie: Well well, Steve Sax, from New York City.
> Officer Lou: I heard some guy got killed in New York City and they never solved the case, but you wouldn't know anything about that, would you Steve? [the officers laugh]
> Sax: But there's hundreds of unsolved murders in New York City.
> Officer Lou: You don't know when to keep your mouth shut, do you Saxy boy?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

This is just friggin' unbelievable.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/02/11/12845766-qmi.html
Col. Williams, Bernardo were 'pals' 

By JOE WARMINGTON and DON PEAT, QMI Agency 
    

They were pals. 
Accused killer Col. Russell Williams and notorious serial killer Paul Bernardo both attended the University of Toronto Scarborough campus. 
They both studied economics at the Military Trail campus during the mid-1980s. 

They graduated together in 1987, Williams, 46, with a politics and economics degree, Bernardo, 45, with a commerce and economics degree. 
Their families both lived along the Scarborough bluffs. 
Now police sources tell the Toronto Sun the two were college “pals” who “partied” together and that their relationship is the subject of intense scrutiny by the joint forces team probing the murders of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd.  

While speculative, police are even looking into the possibility Bernardo and Williams may have “competed against each other.” The source would not elaborate on what that meant. 
“If they were friends it’s certainly interesting,” the source said. “We don’t know what this relationship means. 

“But we do know that they had spent time together at the University of Toronto Scarborough campus.” 
When contacted about the revelation of Bernardo and Williams attending U of T Scarborough at the same time, Commissioner Julian Fantino vowed that when “new aspects come to light, the OPP will investigate.” 

“We are committed to ensure that every aspect of this is investigated and looked in to,” Fantino told the Sun Thursday night. “I am very confident thanks to the great co-operation of the OPP, Belleville Police, and military investigators.” 
The commissioner said cops want as much information as possible about Williams’ early years. 

“We welcome any information members of the public may have on this and encourage them to contact us,” he said. 
In an exclusive interview, Bernardo’s father, Ken Bernardo, said his son doesn’t recall Williams. 

However, the father wasn’t able to reach his son to ask whether he knew Williams by the last name he used in high school and university, or his stepfather’s last name, Sovko. 
“Paul said he might have run into him there but he didn’t know him,” Bernardo said, adding he will ask specifically if his son knew a Russ Sovka when he speaks to him again. 

Bernardo said they didn’t discuss the unsolved crimes in the Scarborough area around his son’s crimes or whether Williams may now be suspect in them. 
“We don’t talk about the past,” Bernardo said. 

Williams, 46, was charged Monday with two counts of first-degree murder, two counts of forcible confinement and two counts of break and enter and sexual assault. He’ll be back in court Feb. 18. 
When Williams attended U of T Scarborough, about 5,000 students attended the commuter campus. There would have been about 250 students attending classes in each year of the economics and commerce program, a school official estimated. 

Women were terrified throughout the Scarborough area surrounding the campus in the 1980s following a series of violent sex attacks that culminated with Toronto Police launching a task force to find the Scarborough rapist. 
Bernardo, after he was jailed for the murder of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy, admitted to several of the attacks. 

Following Williams’ arrest on Monday, police have vowed to investigate cold cases that intersect with the former CFB Trenton base commander’s life. 
At this point there is no suggestion of any criminal connection between Bernardo and Williams or any link between Williams and any other attack. 

On Thursday, police searched Williams’ home in Ottawa, the same day several media outlets reported that he led investigators to the body of Jessica Lloyd following his arrest. 
According to a search warrant of another suspect’s home before Williams was named the primary suspect and charged, detectives were looking for lingerie, baby blankets and computer data storage devices. 

— With files from Mike Strobel and Chris Doucette


----------



## PMedMoe

Vern, I also watched CBC news this morning and Mr. Mansbridge said something about "confirming" the events leading up to the discovery of Jessica Lloyd's body and when they went to the "senior" correspondent in Ottawa, all he mentioned was that forensic teams were at Williams' house in Ottawa and cottage in Tweed and how people who knew him, couldn't reconcile his public image with these murders.

CBC, stop with the red herrings and actually report the news!   

As far as the interview with the CDS, I watched it last night.  The reporter should be fired.  Had she done a little research, she might not have looked like an absolute fool on national TV.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Thanks, Lew    This, from the _Globe & Mail_, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._


> Rarely has Canadian news coverage of a high-profile criminal case offered so much misleading speculation and so many erroneous conclusions as in the charges against Colonel Russell Williams. The following assertions are offered as evidence.
> 
> *‘RED FLAGS' WERE MISSED*
> 
> A national TV news network's commentary asserting this mentioned everything but the “red flag.” Presumably because there wasn't one. The competition for senior command positions in the Canadian Forces is fierce. The process is thorough, expensive and time consuming, and has produced well over 16,000 leaders at the colonel and general rank over the past century. Not one of them was ever charged with crimes even close to the seriousness of those attributed to Col. Williams.
> 
> *COLONEL WAS ‘ON TRACK' TO LEAD THE AIR FORCE*
> 
> Oh? Col. Williams's promotion to the rank of colonel in 2009 at 46 did not put him in the same league as officers who will reach the rank of lieutenant-general and command Canada's air force. If he was 39 or 40, the odds would be more in his favour. To use a military metaphor, he was on a fast train – but not the express.
> 
> Perhaps a word on how the military selects personnel for promotion is in order. Once a year, promotion boards are convened in Ottawa, where all personnel performance files are held. Boards are convened for each military classification – pilot, navigator, infantry, artillery, sub-surface (submariner), maritime engineer, etc.
> 
> For officers, the board's members are from the classification two ranks senior to the rank being considered for promotion. The board is chaired by an officer three ranks senior to the rank considered. As an example, if pilot captains are being considered for promotion to major, the board will consist of up to six lieutenant-colonel pilots, with a full colonel as chair.
> 
> Also of great importance is the participation of one or two “honest brokers” – say, lieutenant-colonels from an unrelated classification, such as the infantry – to ensure the process is not incestuous. An entire week is devoted to selecting those to be promoted in the coming year.
> 
> *‘MORALE' IS LOW*
> 
> Journalists who write or say this don't know the difference between morale and attitude. When morale is low, airmen and airwomen are sullen and withdrawn. They avoid work and responsibility and won't put extra effort into their daily duties. I have never seen that attitude exist in more than 50 years of observing Canada's sailors, soldiers and aircrew. Attitude, however, is something else. You can have high morale and be pissed off at the same time. I dare say a large number of our people are angry at Col. Williams for, by his own accounts, shaming the uniform. But morale is not low – the men and women at CFB Trenton are still working their butts off to keep up with the 24/7 demands of supporting our troops in Afghanistan, Haiti, Vancouver, Nevada and a dozen other locations around the world, in addition to searching and rescuing civilians in trouble.
> 
> *PART OF THE ‘ELITE'*
> 
> What drivel. What constitutes this “elite”? Is there some secret society I was not invited to while serving? Was there some secret handshake I was not aware of? The leaders of the Canadian Forces meet every morning at National Defence Headquarters. Col. Williams was not invited.
> 
> *A GENERAL'S ‘RESPONSIBILITY'*
> 
> During an interview with Canada's top soldier, General Walter Natynczyk, a national television reporter asked whether, given that he had placed Col. Williams in charge in Trenton, he had any words for the families of the victims. Midway through his compassionate response, the reporter asked, “Do you feel responsible?”
> 
> The question's innuendo was barely camouflaged – do you feel responsible for the murders and the assaults? That question was the second “body blow” taken by Gen. Natynczyk in the past few days and was contemptible. To his credit, the Chief of the Defence Staff pointed out that he is responsible for more than 90,000 military personnel, regular and reserve. He avoided directly answering the question, which he should never have been asked.
> 
> Considering their current high profile and well-earned respect both at home and abroad, our young men and women in uniform deserve better treatment than some in the news media have been dishing out.


----------



## krustyrl

This is getting increasingly macabre.!


----------



## Jed

Thank you, Mr Lewis MacKenzie for taking on the MSM. I have lost so much respect for this sloppy reporting on issues as serious as this one that I don't know were to begin. The MSM has no limits to abusing good people such as the CDS, to get their sound bite. There is way too much ' power of the press' They act as if they are in a weapons free zone and have no care as to the damage they do to organzations and people they 'report' on.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Jed said:
			
		

> Thank you, Mr Lewis MacKenzie for taking on the MSM.



Any link handy to that by chance?


----------



## blacktriangle

Check reply #98, it's a few posts above yours.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

popnfresh said:
			
		

> Check reply #98, it's a few posts above yours.



My dumb.  Thank you.


----------



## CorporalMajor

Big Silverback said:
			
		

> BTW, did anyone see the CBC interview of the CDS on the National last night? I thought it was an attempted crucifixion of the CDS.
> Or am I being overly critical?


Not at all.  That interview was garbage.   Completely ignorant and disrespectful behaviour on that woman's part.  General Walt on the other hand took the questions well and was being a true pro, maintaining his composure, and giving thoughtful answers.  Although you could see he was taken aback at her approach.  

She basically tried to make it look as if the CF somehow failed and was beng negligent, and that this all could have been easily prevented.  But who could have saw this coming?  He was known to be professional, well mannered, likeable..   it's not like he made himself look like an obvious suspect.  Would a serial killer make it look obvious???

And I agree with what was said, you might expect Joe Plumber to do it, but a BComd or a doctor?

He is a CF pilot, which is known to be a very competitive and selective career field that pays a very good salary. He is also a senior officer.  The position he got is not handed to anyone, it is earned and proven.  No idiot off the street gets to where he got, he was obviously a very clever man.  So clearly, if these allegations are true, he hid it remarkably well, because he was that sharp.  

to me it's horrifying, and shocking.  This is very difficult for us all to swallow.  He alledgedly took one of our own... my thoughts are with all the victims and their families


----------



## the 48th regulator

CorporalMajor said:
			
		

> He is a CF pilot, which is known to be a very competitive and selective career field that pays a very good salary. He is also a senior officer.  The position he got is not handed to anyone, it is earned and proven.  No idiot off the street gets to where he got, he was obviously a very clever man.  So clearly, if these allegations are true, he hid it remarkably well, because he was that sharp.



Robert Pickton was a Pig farmer, he was convicted of murdering six, and charged with 20 more victims.
Clifford Olson Career criminal murdered 11 children, numerous sexual assaults.
And so on.....

Other than the one Doctor on the list, although very thoughtful, I think your theory may not have validity.

dileas

tess


----------



## zipperhead_cop

CorporalMajor said:
			
		

> She basically tried to make it look as if the CF somehow failed and was beng negligent, and that this all could have been easily prevented.



IMO, some of the media are likely mindlessly imitating their American counterparts who had a legitimate negligence issue to bring up when the Muslim major went on a terrorist strike on his own base.  Since "journalism" appears to have died a long time ago, they just see 
SENIOR OFFICER+KILLING=SCANDAL AND COVER UP


----------



## CorporalMajor

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> IMO, some of the media are likely mindlessly imitating their American counterparts who had a legitimate negligence issue to bring up when the Muslim major went on a terrorist strike on his own base.  Since "journalism" appears to have died a long time ago, they just see
> SENIOR OFFICER+KILLING=SCANDAL AND COVER UP



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan#Retrospective_analyses

In that case there were warning signs that pointed to the massacre.

As far as we've been told, very little suggested that Col Williams would have done this.  His neighbours in Orleans say they never would expect this of him, and I don't think they're alone..


----------



## zipperhead_cop

CorporalMajor said:
			
		

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan#Retrospective_analyses
> 
> In that case there were warning signs that pointed to the massacre.
> 
> As far as we've been told, very little suggested that Col Williams would have done this.  His neighbours in Orleans say they never would expect this of him, and I don't think they're alone..



That was my point.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

I'm going to drop this in every few pages to serve as a reminder to folks who haven't read the whole thread, and seen it, or have not been briefed by their Unit.



> Public Affairs Guidance
> 
> 8 February 2010
> 
> Charges laid against Col Russell WIlliams, 8 wing commander, trenton.
> 
> 
> SITUATION
> 
> On February 8, the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) charged Col Russell Williams, Commander 8 Wing, with two counts of first degree murder and other charges.
> 
> The OPP has the lead, and the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS) has assisted and continues to assist the OPP with their case.
> 
> A news conference was held at 1300hrs on 8 Feb 2010, which involved the OPP Deputy Commissioner, Case Manager and chief of local police. During the news conference, the OPP mentioned that the CFNIS has assisted and continues to assist the OPP as required. The fact that the CFNIS was mentioned demonstrates that the CF is engaged and is taking this issue very seriously.
> 
> A statement by Chief of the Air Staff regarding the arrest was issued through Marketwire at 1530hrs on 8 Feb 2010, to which reference can be made if requests are received for Air Force comment on this issue.
> 
> It is anticipated that this issue will attract interest from the media and the general Canadian public.
> 
> PURPOSE
> 
> This Public Affairs Guidance (PAG) is intended to provide CF members and DND personnel with guidance for dealing with media and public queries related to the arrest of COMD 8 Wing.
> 
> PA GUIDANCE
> 
> *All are reminded that, in accordance with DAOD 2008-2, CF members and DND employees should not offer personal opinion or comment on details related to these projects that fall outside of their areas of expertise or responsibility. *This also applies to base newspapers.
> Media Queries
> 
> It is reasonable to expect the media to request interviews with and invite comments from members of DND/CF.  The best way to ensure that queries are addressed by the appropriate DND/CF spokesperson and that key leaders remain informed, is to refer questions from reporters to the MLO at 1-866-377-0811 (anywhere in Canada) // 613-996-2353 (locally and international).
> 
> The MLO is the coordination centre for media that have any questions related to DND/CF.  The office is always manned and is run after hours on a duty officer basis.  The reporter’s request is then logged and sent to the appropriate account(s) for action.
> 
> A biography and photo of Commander 8 Wing are available on the 8 Wing website: http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/8w-8e/page-eng.asp?id=964
> Beyond this, *CF members cannot comment or speculate on this serious issue due to the ongoing investigation and legal proceedings.*
> 
> Questions about the police investigation should be directed to the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP). Constable Chris Dewsbury, Northumberland OPP, 613-475-1313.






Highlights are mine.

Feel free to interpret the directive as you see fit. Seems pretty clear, cut and dried to me.

Now, Milnet.ca takes your privacy and confidentiality seriously. Having said that, anyone that thinks they are anonymous on the internet, Milnet notwithstanding, better think again.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Didn't this come out in an email the other day too?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Not everyone has a DIN account


----------



## ballz

Indeed RG...

The only place I have seen it is this thread.


----------



## 1feral1

CorporalMajor said:
			
		

> That interview was garbage.   Completely ignorant and disrespectful behaviour.....
> to me it's horrifying, and shocking.



I'll sum up, like I have said so many times in the past, the media only have one agenda, and overall are a disgrace.

They chose 'tabloid' sensationalism and negativty, over reporting the real facts and more importantly, the truth.  

Real reporters and journalists have become exctinct.

It is an exception to the rule if there is 1/1000 good reports WRT Defence and the war.

Shame on them all.

OWDU


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Recieved this as an email:



> MCpl Thickson receives Wing Comander's Commendation
> 
> On 26 July 2009, MCpl Thickson reacted with outstanding professionalism affecting an immediate emergency response to a murder scene at CFB
> Trenton, ON. In doing so, he ensured the security of the crime scene and of other emergency response personnel who were attempting to revive the victim while the murder suspect was at large in the area.



Most curious.
Edit to add:  I have not yet been able to locate the source of this info.  Possibly from the DIN?


----------



## CorporalMajor

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> That was my point.


Oh I know, I was  supporting it. 



> I'll sum up, like I have said so many times in the past, the media only have one agenda, and overall are a disgrace.  They chose 'tabloid' sensationalism and negativty, over reporting the real facts and more importantly, the truth.   Real reporters and journalists have become exctinct.
> It is an exception to the rule if there is 1/1000 good reports WRT Defence and the war.  Shame on them all.
> 
> OWDU


  
When I was an escort for remembrance day at the War Memorial a few months ago I had to escort media types back and forth.  Some were patient and understanding whenever I had to make them wait.  The remainder were EXTREMELY!!!!! rude, and treated us like we were beneath them somehow.

Many media professionals are intelligent hardworking people.   That woman who interviewed the CDS though, her actions were just pathetic.  



> Recieved this as an email:
> 
> 
> MCpl Thickson receives Wing Comander's Commendation
> 
> 
> Most curious.


The irony.......  :-X


----------



## mariomike

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Robert Pickton was a Pig farmer, he was convicted of murdering six, and charged with 20 more victims.
> Clifford Olson Career criminal murdered 11 children, numerous sexual assaults.



From the National Post ( 2007 ), if interested:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2007/12/12/a-sordid-history-of-canadian-killers.aspx

On the subject, from today's Sun:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2010/02/12/12848346-sun.html


----------



## armyvern

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Most curious.
> Edit to add:  I have not yet been able to locate the source of this info.  Possibly from the DIN?



Possibly _The Contact_; the 8 Wg base newspaper?

Edited to add: That would have been ref the murder of James Read.


----------



## leroi

A short article from the G&M re: Book to be publised about the colonel~good grief, isn't that kind of premature???  

I expected something like this would be coming down the pipe but so soon?

I won't post the entire article just the link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/book-deal-signed-for-story-of-colonel-russ-williams/article1465869/


----------



## The Bread Guy

...on a coming book (whose title suggests the publisher and author - from the Globe & Mail - are police, judge and jury - how efficient):
http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2447541 

 :


----------



## WATCHDOG-81

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Recieved this as an email:
> 
> Most curious.
> Edit to add:  I have not yet been able to locate the source of this info.  Possibly from the DIN?



The source of this write-up and photo is the CFPM's DWAN web site and it refers to MCpl Thickson's actions while responding to the murder scene of James Read.  There is no connection with the subject of this thread.


----------



## leroi

mariomike, I don't know the answer and will have to do some digging but I sincerely hope the publication is blocked.

From what you posted it sounds like they can go ahead and publish before conviction. 

Without knowing the details of the contract, for example when they expect to publish, or whether they intend to donate some of the proceeds to charity it's difficult to know if they're breaking the law.

Publishing the book this early would be so unfair, so hurtful to the victims' families.

And unfair to the accused.

If there are any legal experts here, feel free to chime in.

Edited to add: I re-read--and see it's going to be published this fall.  How very sad.


----------



## the 48th regulator

WATCHDOG-81 said:
			
		

> The source of this write-up and photo is the CFPM's DWAN web site and it refers to MCpl Thickson's actions while responding to the murder scene of James Read.  There is no connection with the subject of this thread.




There is no connection being made with the good Mcpl. and the alleged crimes.

The connection, is the irony of what he is being commended for, and by whom....According to recent reports.


dileas

tess


----------



## mariomike

leroi said:
			
		

> If there are any legal experts here, feel free to chime in.



Lawyer Edward Greenspan had this to say in the Sun last year:
http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/edward_greenspan/2009/05/11/9419101-sun.html

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/08/28/writing-past-wrongs/

http://dsp-psd.communication.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/LS/c220-e.htm

You may recall the "Son of Sam" law in New York:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Sam_law

I certainly agree with what you say, Leroi. 
Thank-you for your post!


----------



## ModlrMike

The title of his book is prejudicial to say the least, and undermines the ability to conduct a fair trial. If I were a party to the proceedings, I would file for an injunction to delay publication until after the trial. At the very least, the publication before trial creates the groundwork for appeal. Besides, from a literary point of view, wouldn't it be better to publish this work after the verdict is handed down?


----------



## mariomike

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Besides, from a literary point of view, wouldn't it be better to publish this work after the verdict is handed down?



It may be the first book, but something tells me it won't be the last.


----------



## leroi

Moderators please move if this post is mis-placed.

The Mayor of Quinte, John Williams, is a remarkable man and an excellent community leader. If any of you can spare some time, a *Military Appreciation Rally * is being held to support the CF at Trenton. The community wants to rally behind you to show they care despite the arrest of RW.  Mayor Williams wants the folks at Trenton to know the community continues to stand behind them.   

I'm hearing through the grapevine that recent conflicts between the community and the base are isolated incidents and that the media has been driving some of the residents nutzzzz with some very pointedly rude questions. 

Quinte West to Hold Rally for the Troops

The Intelligencer: January 13, 2010 (Reproduced in accordance with the Fair Dealing provision, 29, of the Copyright Act.)

Quinte West is organizing a massive rally next week to show its support for the the men and women of CFB Trenton. Days after Col. Russ Williams had been arrested on two first degree murder charges, business owners began erecting signs proclaiming the city's support for military.  Local residents here are incensed at media reports claiming there's a growing rift between the civilian and military communities. 

An incident -- circulated on a local radio station and picked up by CBC News online -- was reported to have taken place at the Rumours restaurant and bar on Dundas Street East where a patron was reported to have spat on a soldier. The owner of the bar refused comment on whether the incident actually occurred, saying he had been pestered by the media and was leaving town for the weekend. 

No one has come forward elsewhere in Trenton, in fact, to say they ever witnessed a spitting incident.  Pat Boyce owns the U-Serve-Coffee variety store next door. She said more than 75 per cent of her clientele is from the military. She put up a sign outside the store to support those people, she said.  "I have not heard anything negative about the troops," said Boyce. "But I heard about an incident that would have happened next door (Rumours) and my reaction was to put up a sign outside." 

The rally will be held Saturday, Feb. 20 at 10 a.m.  "We're calling it a military appreciation rally,'' he said.  The rally will start at Bain Park, adjacent to the base and walk to the main entrance of CFB Trenton. "We want everyone to come up and show their support.  Bring flags and signs,'' said Quinte West mayor John Williams. The mayor's office has received dozens of phone calls and e-mails from residents offering help and ideas. 

Williams said a woman from Guelph called. Her son is in the military. "She wanted me to know that she is proud the city and its residents are showing support to the military. She didn't believe media reports,'' said Williams.  Other business owners and members of various service clubs have offered assistance. 

*"This is like having a neighbour in trouble and the family who lives next door offers help,'' said Williams. "Well, the people of 8 Wings are our friends and neighbours and now they need our help." *  

Williams said 8 Wing is supporting the rally. He's also notified Chief of Defence Staff, Gen. Walter Natynczyk. 

Although the public has had no problems expressing their support for the troops, an unofficial code of silence has fallen over CFB Trenton.  A Trentonian reporter was asked to leave the base CANEX store when reporting on the story.  Reporter Jerome Lessard was at the base store to find out if the sales of the yellow 'Support Our Troops' ribbons had increased in this week's groundswell of public support for the base and its personnel.  He introduced himself to the store manager, explaining why he was there.  "He didn't let me finish and said not to talk to his staff,'' said Lessard. "He told me e-mails had been sent out saying staff were not allowed talk to the media.''


----------



## lea

Article by Lee Greenberg in Winnipeg Free Press, 13-Feb-2010

 http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/cocky-colonel-tried-to-frame-me-neighbour-84292442.html


----------



## ballz

nice post leroi.

Here's hopin' to a huge a turnout. Great idea by the mayor. Hopefully nobody in Trenton will have to ask "should we wear our uniforms in public?" after this.


----------



## Cloud Cover

CTV reporting 3rd Belleville woman now reported as missing for about 3 weeks.  27 year old seems to have vanished after being last seen a t a church in Belleville. I hope they find her safe.  


http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100213/OTT_missing_belleville_100213/20100213/?hub=OttawaHome


----------



## HItorMiss

I have had a thouht bare with me it is rare and can cause some intense pain...

Should the Col be found Guilty of these charges could and should any member who had been charged 129 and found guilty by the Col in any of his precious postings have the right to appeal the guilty verdict...

Seems to me that there is no more conduct unbecoming of a CF member then what the Col is charged with.

That being said of course this is all based on him being guilty which has not been proven yet.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> That being said of course this is all based on him being guilty which has not been proven yet.



This may go towards that end....

http://www.windsorstar.com/news/Police+find+keepsakes+military+commander+home/2564958/story.html


> Ottawa police recover hidden keepsakes from home of military commander accused of murder
> 
> By Gary Dimmock, Ottawa CitizenFebruary 14, 2010 11:02 PM
> 
> — Police say they have recovered evidence — including hidden keepsakes — from the Ottawa home of a former Ontario military base commander charged with murdering two women.
> 
> Ontario Provincial Police investigating Col. Russell Williams also said Sunday they have matched a print from a homicide scene to the 46-year-old’s boot.
> 
> He is charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, his subordinate at the Ontario airbase.
> 
> Williams also faces charges in two sexual assaults that saw the victims bound naked to chairs and photographed by their attacker.
> 
> The announcement Sunday marks the second time in the case that police have used old-fashioned forensics.
> 
> Earlier this month, investigators matched Williams’ Nissan Pathfinder’s tire tracks to another crime scene and cracked the case.
> 
> Williams then turned himself in to Ottawa police and gave a detailed statement to a detective from the behavioural sciences squad.
> 
> Police said the colonel directed officers to where they could find evidence — including the keepsakes — inside his Ottawa home.
> 
> Some of the evidence police were searching for were so-called trophies from the sex crimes, including victims’ undergarments and photographs of the attack.
> 
> Police also were searching for digital storage devices — including a BlackBerry — computer equipment, photographs, a thong, bra, panties and baby blankets, according to a search warrant.
> 
> Detectives, including forensic investigators, could be seen leaving the Ottawa home with boxes Sunday afternoon.
> 
> Mary Elizabeth Harriman, the colonel’s wife and a Heart and Stroke Foundation executive, has been living elsewhere since her husband turned himself in to police.
> 
> Police believe she had no knowledge of the crimes.
> 
> Ottawa Citizen



BABY BLANKETS?!?  WTF? ???

Pretty hard not to see this one as a slam dunk.  Boy, his poor (soon to be ex) wife.  What a gut shot for her :-\


----------



## CorporalMajor

ballz said:
			
		

> nice post leroi.
> 
> Here's hopin' to a huge a turnout. Great idea by the mayor. Hopefully nobody in Trenton will have to ask "should we wear our uniforms in public?" after this.


I agree, kudos to him.   It really is needed.   I'm feeling for the people serving in Trenton.   :-\

I think so far the public seems to appreciate us still, and they realize it's not the CF that did this - at least the majority of them..  By and large, most people I've seen in Facebook groups mourning the victims write that they are still very supportive of us despite this awful news.   It's a big relief.... don't know why, but when I heard this news last week I feared this would somehow cause a lot of backlash towards us. 



> Boy, his poor (soon to be ex) wife.


Same here...


----------



## aesop081

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> have the right to appeal the guilty verdict...



The facts of his case have no bearing on the facts of their cases.



> conduct unbecoming of a CF member



"Conduct prejudice to the good order and discipline" is a 129.


----------



## kratz

From the Ottawa Citizen



> Accused ex-base commander remanded
> Canwest News ServiceFebruary 18, 2010 11:03 AM
> 
> BELLEVILLE, Ont. — Col. Russell Williams, the former base commander at CFB Trenton who is accused of killing two women, has been remanded in custody to March 25, at 9:30 a.m.
> 
> 
> Wearing an orange jumpsuit, Williams identified himself to the judge via video link from the Quinte Detention Centre in nearby Napanee, Ont., where he has been held since Feb. 8. The March appearance will also be by video link.
> 
> 
> Williams, 46, faces first-degree murder charges in the asphyxiation deaths of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, who was found at her Brighton, Ont., home in November, and Jessica Lloyd, 27, who went missing from Belleville just over a week before Williams's arrest.
> 
> 
> He also faces sexual assault charges in relation to two September home invasions in nearby Tweed, Ont., where he owns a cottage.
> 
> 
> Police have said they will continue to investigate cold cases that may be linked to the eastern Ontario murders.
> 
> 
> Williams has hired Michael Edelson, a prominent defence lawyer from Ottawa, to represent him in court.
> 
> 
> Edelson has represented such clients as Ottawa Mayor Larry O'Brien, who was cleared of influence-peddling charges last year, and Raymond Lahey, a former Nova Scotia bishop who is facing child pornography charges.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/02/18/12926501-cp.html

 Jailhouse no respecter of rank
By EARL MCRAE, QMI Agency

Town growing tired of spotlight

The impulses that drive a human being to acts of murder do not discriminate. They are no respecter of titles, awards, social standing, humanitarian achievement.

In Tweed today, police investigators are physically tearing apart the lakeside home of accused murderer and rapist Col. Russell Williams, whose new residence is a small, barren cell of maximum security Unit 18 at the Quinte Detention Centre, stripped of all his dignity, his distinctive high-ranking officer's uniform replaced by one of orange, unadorned, denim making him sartorially indistinguishable from all the other jailbirds in the joint. To them, he's just another no-count bum, a loser.

But, among prisoners, there's a hierachy in the crime hit parade with those accused, or convicted, of murdering women and raping women right at the top with child killers/molesters, and it's for that reason Williams is segregated from the general inmate population at the 228-bed facility, the fear that what happened last summer to Hamed Shafia could happen to him.
Or worse.

POUNDED BY INMATES

In July of last year 18-year-old Shafia, and his parents -- charged with killing three teenage family members -- were brought to the detention centre. Within hours Shafia was pounded out by other inmates in the exercise yard, his parents threatened.
Life on the inside for Williams is not the camaraderie of the Officers' Mess.

The village of Tweed is striving to overcome the odorous stigma created by Williams' arrest, which so shocked them; not only because human nature has difficulty equating murder charges with exalted military stature, but also because he lived among them anonymously. He had no presence.

Tweed does not want to be known as the home of Russell Williams, it wants to be known at this dark time as the home of some others.
Tweed wants to be known as the hometown of Ontario's education minister, Leona Dombrowsky, who lives there still.

Tweed wants to be known as the hometown of Patrick LeSage, former chief justice of the Ontario Superior Court, who, in the strangest of ironies, was the presiding judge at the murder trial of serial killer Paul Bernardo, reportedly a school acquaintance of Williams.
Patrick LeSage: "I am saddened, surprised, but I know the people of my Tweed, my hometown, will show the victims and the victims families, their support in this difficult period."

Tweed would want to be known as the hometown of Lieut. Gen. Jack Vance, who retired from the Army in 1989 as Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff. His son, also a Tweedite, is Brig. Gen. John Vance, until recently, head of the Canadian-coalition forces in Afghanistan.

Jack Vance, 76, from his home in Tweed: "I had no idea Col. Williams had property in Tweed. I was really shocked by that. I met him once, at a coffin ceremony last fall at the Trenton base. I did shake his hand. My impression was that he was fit and professional looking and aptly sincere.

'SERIOUS EFFECT'

"Needless to say, this has had a really quite serious effect on Tweed. The (sexual assault) incidents with the two women last fall that he's been charged with. On the road where he lives. He lived only two miles from me. His house (on Cosy Cove Lane) is six doors down from where my late parents lived. Women around here were very upset. There was an atmosphere of fear, even terror.
"It was a shock to people here who always held the military in high regard. But ... his alleged actions are not reflective of the officer corps and the forces at large."

Vance says his son, Brig. Gen. Vance, "was very upset and saddened. But people should also know that just because a person has over 25 years in the military and rises to the rank of colonel doesn't mean he's been cut out of a kid's paper doll book. I think the local people are gradually recovering."

Jack Vance is a proud member of Tweed's Royal Canadian Legion Branch 428. It has more than 400 members. Some current military. The officer from Cosy Cove Lane was not one of them. "Nope," says Lottie, the manager. "Not here. Never came in once. No one even knew of him."

Now the whole country knows of the man in Unit 18 of the Quinte Detention Centre.


----------



## leroi

~Some impressions of the February 20th Trenton _Military Appreciation Rally_:

I visited Trenton for the first time ever to attend the _Neighbours Helping Neighbours_ rally to demonstrate appreciation of  8 Wing and the CF.

A quick scan of media sources reveals a wide divergence of reporting on the numbers in attendance.

According to the Mayor of Quinte West, John Williams, the rally was attended by about 1000-1200. 

The ceremony and speeches after the march were short and focused on appreciating the military: accompanied by a band, we sang _O Canada_ together and 'hip-hip hoorayed' 8 Wing.  The new Wing Commander, Colonel Dave Cochrane, said a few words as did Mayor Williams.  Towards the end, the Salvation Army supplied hot beverages as the community mingled with members of CFB Trenton and thanked them for their service to Canada.

Many people dispersed quickly after wards--probably to do the typical Canadian Saturday morning things that are, well, typically Canadian--ferry children to hockey practice, get groceries, visit family, Canadian Tire and Tim Horton's or return to their television sets to watch the Olympics; many of the media photo shots of the crowd took place towards the end and didn't really capture the size of the crowd.  Some of whom had already departed for home.

I stayed at the Holiday Inn and met some lovely, friendly people during my short visit and made a point of not asking any questions but people were heartened by out-of-towners attending them. The staff at the Holiday Inn spoiled me rotten.  Can't say enough about the friendliness and kindness of everyone I met.  A wonderful woman and wife of a man who'd served 4 overseas tours took me under her wing when I arrived at the parade grounds alone and stayed with me throughout the rally.  One of those fleeting moments of human kindness the memory of which lasts a life time. We hugged when we said good bye.  I don't even know her last name but I'll never forget her. She had attended for her family; her husband could not because he was helping an elderly veteran with his taxes that morning.

There was a mournful pall infusing every conversation I had with civilian Trentonians from cab drivers to attendants at the Inn, they were quick to point out that indeed an ugly ripple of backlash had occurred last week and though not characteristic of the entire community, it was not to be denied.  But I got the impression they are moving on from that and I think that as the saga of RW unfolds, the community will do everything in its power to ensure it doesn't happen again,  that there will be a vigilance in that regard.  In a strange paradox, the fact that I was there to show support and not just to be "nosy" resulted in people opening up and telling me how badly they feel.

~Can't confirm that it's true but I heard (and can't reveal my sources ... sorry)  that Prime Minister Harper wrote a letter of praise to the area Mayors. 

How CFB Trenton felt about the rally is not for me  to say but I observed faces that were happy for the show of support, some who seemed indifferent and some who were openly weeping ...  human all too human ... like any cross section of Canadians, a diverse reaction.  Civilian and military we grieve, bleed and heal the same and with a diversity of emotions--in spite of our differences.

Two highlights of my visit: I was able to thank Mayor Williams personally and I got to shake hands with the new Wing Commander, Colonel Dave Cochrane.

(PS: -- love those flat-rate Trenton cabs!)

A quick scan of media sources yields the following report of the rally that I thought was most accurate; reproduced here with thanks to the _Northumberland News_ and reproduced in accordance with the _Fair Dealing_ provision, 29, of the _Copyright Act_.  (A few nice pictures on link.)

http://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/article/148779



> *More Than 1,000 Attend Trenton’s Military Appreciation Rally*
> Feb, 20, 2010
> Bill Tremblay
> 
> TRENTON -- If there was ever a doubt of the unwavering support for the staff at CFB Trenton, it was trampled under the feet of 1,000 plus military supporters Saturday morning.
> 
> The more than 1,000 people marched from Trenton’s Bain Park to the front steps of CFB Trenton’s headquarters during a Feb. 20 military appreciation rally.
> 
> CFB Trenton Commander Colonel Dave Cochrane said the rally helped reenergize the link between 8 Wing staff and the civilian community.
> 
> “There is an electricity in the wing. We’re turning the page and moving forward,” Col. Cochrane said. “This shows the strong bond we have with the communities. We are woven into society everywhere we are on the various bases.”
> 
> The military appreciation rally was created following the arrest of former CFB Trenton Commander Russ Williams on two charges of murder.
> 
> “We’ve gone through some serious challenges in the previous weeks,” Col. Cochrane said. “However, the 8 Wing men and women are resilient. They will move forward with the professionalism and dedication they’ve always shown.”
> 
> Quinte West Mayor John Williams, who created the rally, said he didn’t know how many people would attend to show their support.
> 
> “We didn’t know if it would be 200, maybe 100 people. All we wanted to do was present the opportunity,” Mayor Williams said. “But it’s just what we needed right now. Everybody needed an opportunity to say thank you and show their support.”
> 
> Mayor Williams called Saturday’s turnout ‘overwhelming’. Col. Cochrane agreed.
> 
> “The 8 Wing men and women are definitely taken back from the overwhelming show of support,” Col. Cochrane said.
> 
> As the rally approached the steps of the base’s headquarters, soldiers filled the stairs and applauded their civilian supporters.
> 
> “This is absolutely unbelievable,” Major Guy Bouchard, 429 Squadron Aircraft Maintenance Engineering Officer said. “The support the community has given us is unreal. We really appreciate this.”
> 
> Maj. Bouchard said the Canadian Forces are proud members of the Quinte community.
> 
> “This brings us a whole lot closer,” Maj. Bouchard said. “We truly understand each other and will work through this together.”
> 
> Cheryl Lessard said she was happy to drive from Flinton to show her support for the Canadian Forces.
> 
> “I’m here because they protect us when we need it,” Ms. Lessard said. “I wish there were 10 times more people, but this was a good group.”
> 
> Jaime Fitzakerley, owner of Trenton’s Walsh Transportation, said her shuttle business is thriving thanks to CFB Trenton.
> 
> “They do a lot for the area and we like to return the favour,” Ms. Fitzakerley said. “Today they needed our support and they got it.”
> 
> Walsh Transportation holds a contract with 8 Wing to shuttle soldiers to and from the airport.
> 
> “Without the military we would be hurting for sure,” Ms. Fitzakerley said. “They are one of our largest contracts.”
> 
> Although the rally was created to help remedy the pain felt after the arrest of Col. Williams, it may return next year.
> 
> “Maybe this is something the community should be doing once a year,” Mayor Williams said. “Maybe it will become an annual event, but they really needed this.”


----------



## mariomike

Leroi, that's a very nice thing that you did.


----------



## leroi

mariomike, thank you but not sure if I deserve the compliment; I went to Trenton to preserve my own sanity so there was an element of self-interest involved.

I'm only one person and wanted to show my support but beyond that, had to go as a personal journey to see for myself that the community stands behind CFB Trenton.  It broke my heart reading of soldiers being spat on as a consequence of one person's possible heinous crimes.  Even one soldier, sailor airman or airwoman being spat on is one  too many.  It utterly and truly broke my faith in my country and so I had to make the journey.  I kept asking myself what the hell kind of country am I living in? 

- Couldn't believe that fellow Canadians, though they were few, could illogically turn against their 'defenders' as a consequence of this one allegedly violent social actor with such alacrity--couldn't believe it.

It seems I'm not the only Canadian who was worried for them. 

There was a groundswell and outpouring of concern from all across Canada and beyond.

But I had to see it for myself  ...  to experience the community to really know that Trenton does support their military and that support is deeper than trade, dollars and commerce.

And, that's what I found there: a supportive community.  Both military and civilian--united in their grief, their anger and trying to come to terms with an unspeakable evil.


----------



## The Bread Guy

This from the _Belleville Intelligencer_, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._:


> Col. Russ Williams is now the subject of a military administrative review, but is not likely to face a military trial, The Intelligencer has learned.
> 
> Williams, 46, was arrested Feb. 7 in Ottawa. At the time he was in command of 8 Wing-CFB Trenton.
> 
> He is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, of Brighton and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville. He is also charged with two counts of break, enter and sexual assault and two counts of forcible confinement stemming from attacks last September on two Tweed women.
> 
> "The administrative review of Col. Williams' career status has been opened under the authority of the Director General Military Careers," air force spokesman Maj. Jim Hutcheson said Friday.
> 
> He said the review was launched "shortly after the charges" against Williams were laid.
> 
> The investigation is "still focusing on (the) six charges before the courts," Ontario Provincial Police Sgt. Kristine Rae said, adding the investigation is ongoing.
> 
> Police have said they are currently concerned mainly with the cases of involving those four victims, but will probe whether other cases may be linked to the current investigation.
> 
> Williams cannot, however, be tried under military law because the alleged offences occurred in Canada.
> 
> The National Defence Act prohibits the Canadian Forces from trying anyone charged with murder, manslaughter or child abduction unless the offence is committed outside the country.
> 
> "Even if a military member murders another military member in the middle of a garrison (in Canada) we can't take jurisdiction," said Lt.-Col. Bruce MacGregor, director of military justice and policy for the Canadian Forces.
> 
> He said he could not comment on specific cases before the court.
> 
> Speaking generally, MacGregor said, a sexual assault charge laid in Canada could be tried in the military system. But he added if that charge is linked to a more serious one in a civilian court a prosecutor is unlikely to separate them for different trials.
> 
> Military staff charged with such crimes as murder by civilian police can also face employment- related penalties such as loss of command, rank and employment after administrative review.
> 
> The military has a justice system parallel to the civilian system, but prosecution of some cases on Canadian soil is handled entirely by civilian authorities.
> 
> "If a person is found guilty then they go through the punishment as any Canadian citizen would," said MacGregor.
> 
> "If they're a military person and they're found guilty, we do not have the ability to charge them on the same type of offence on the same circumstances," he said.
> 
> Even if the person is acquitted, he said, he or she can't be courtmartialled based on the same facts since "that would be double jeopardy."
> 
> Administrative reviews are conducted by senior officers. They can, for example, be held by the accused's commanding officer or a career review board.
> 
> Unlike the criminal system, the reviews do not require a finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
> 
> Evidence can come from a variety of sources, from an interview of the accused to a summary military investigation.
> 
> Administrative action can still occur if someone is acquitted on a technicality, but "on the balance of probabilities, the accusation is very clear that it took place," he said.
> 
> MacGregor compared the action to a normal employer's review of an employee. Penalties, if any, can include counselling and probation, a recorded warning, or a simple caution.
> 
> "Disciplinary actions possess a punitive aspect that administrative actions do not," says a National Defence document on the process.
> 
> "There's nothing in law that says administrative action cannot take place prior to or during the course of a trial," MacGregor said. "It's not completely dependent upon the criminal trial."
> 
> MacGregor said a person in command who is charged with murder, manslaughter or child abduction could be relieved of that command after review.
> 
> Williams was relieved of command Feb. 12.
> 
> "He retains his rank; he retains his pay," Hutcheson said, "because he hasn't been proven guilty.
> 
> "The review won't be completed or finalized until there's a result in his civilian court hearing, because that would be a factor considered in the administrative review.
> 
> "If he is found guilty of the charges and the administrative review subsequently recommends his dishonourable release from the military, of course he wouldn't be paid at that point and he would have to return his pay back until the day at which he was charged," said Hutcheson.
> 
> Should Williams be acquitted, Hutcheson said, he could in theory return to a command role, though not necessarily his former job as base commander.
> 
> "I don't see why not," he said, but added "there'd be other considerations that would have to be looked at ... given the experience he'd just been through.
> 
> "There are other opportunities for command, of course, in the Canadian Forces so they would be considered," Hutcheson said.
> 
> "You'd have to wait for the results of the administrative review, too, because they have career implications. Just because he's found not guilty doesn't mean the administrative review would stop. That could affect ... (his) career in the future."
> 
> MacGregor said the subject of an administrative review can appeal the outcome via a grievance system.
> 
> Several people may be appointed to help a military member facing criminal charges. They include military defence counsel, an assisting officer to aid the accused and defence counsel throughout the case and an attending officer.
> 
> Of those, only an attending officer is assigned to an accused facing civilian criminal charges.
> 
> Kingston-based Lt.-Col. Tony O'Keeffe is Williams' attending officer.
> 
> He spoke candidly about Williams last month during the latter's video remand in Belleville court, calling him both "an intellect" and "a broken man."
> 
> He said Friday, however, he could offer no further details on his friend, whom he's known since 2001.
> 
> "I'm not a spokesperson for the Canadian Forces, nor am I a spokesperson for the accused," he said. "It would be inappropriate for me to speak.
> 
> "My role as the attending officer is limited to each time there's a court date or an appearance I will be there on behalf of the Canadian Forces to listen and record proceedings and just report them back up the chain."
> 
> MacGregor said Williams has access to other military services -- chaplains, social workers, medical care, etc. -- so long as he remains employed by the Canadian Forces.
> 
> Williams' case returns to Belleville court March 25 for a video remand.


----------



## GAP

There's also this.....
 Lawyers expect change of venue for Williams trial
Updated 9 hours ago W. BRICE MCVICAR The Intelligencer
Article Link

It's a good bet lawyers will seek a change of venue for the trial of Col. Russell Williams, say defence lawyers in Belleville and Ottawa.

Belleville criminal defence lawyer Ed Kafka said while he believes a "decent jury" could be found for the Williams case, a change of venue would likely improve the chances of finding one. He said media coverage and community involvement in the search for 27-year-old Jessica Lloyd may have altered the opportunity for a fair jury trial locally but, outside the region, it is still obtainable.

"I think you can get a decent jury, but probably not in Hastings County at this point," Kafka said. "I think there would probably be a change of venue application to another jurisdiction simply because of the media attention and the local interest."

Kafka's comments come on the heels of an article in the legal periodical, Law Times, in which Mark Ertel, past president of the Defence Counsel Association of Ottawa, said the national media coverage of the arrest of Williams and details released through the coverage of his arrest could greatly impact Williams' chances of a fair trial by jury. Ertel said media reports indicating Williams gave a lengthy confession to investigating officers mean many people have already convicted the former CFB Trenton commander of the two first degree murder charges he is facing in connection to the homicides of Lloyd and Cpl. Marie France Comeau.

Williams is also facing two charges of sexual assault in relation to home invasions in Tweed.

"If it was up to me, newspapers wouldn't be able to report this sort of stuff before people had their trials and then there'd be a real presumption of innocence," Ertel said when reached in Ottawa for an interview. "As long as we believe that freedom of the press is a more important principle than the presumption of innocence, this is going to happen in sensational cases and that's what's happened here." 
More on link


----------



## Retired AF Guy

GAP said:
			
		

> There's also this.....
> Lawyers expect change of venue for Williams trial
> Updated 9 hours ago W. BRICE MCVICAR The Intelligencer
> Article Link
> 
> ........ Mark Ertel, past president of the Defence Counsel Association of Ottawa, said the national media coverage of the arrest of Williams and details released through the coverage of his arrest could greatly impact Williams' chances of a fair trial by jury. Ertel said media reports indicating Williams gave a lengthy confession to investigating officers mean many people have already convicted the former CFB Trenton commander of the two first degree murder charges he is facing in connection to the homicides of Lloyd and Cpl. Marie France Comeau.
> 
> ...........
> 
> "If it was up to me, newspapers wouldn't be able to report this sort of stuff before people had their trials and then there'd be a real presumption of innocence," Ertel said when reached in Ottawa for an interview. "As long as we believe that freedom of the press is a more important principle than the presumption of innocence, this is going to happen in sensational cases and that's what's happened here."



This is not the first time I've seen comments like this coming from members of the legal community. It appears that Mr. Ertel and others like him, think that jury members are unable to change their minds if presented with evidence that contradicts what they have heard in the media. Unfortunately, because its illegal to discuss jury proceedings, its hard to know if his concerns are valid or not.


----------



## The Bread Guy

This from the Canadian Press:


> The former commander of CFB Trenton will make another court appearance today in Belleville, Ont., via video link.
> 
> Col. Russell Williams faces first-degree murder charges in the deaths of two women, and charges in sex assaults against other women. Williams is accused of killing Cpl. Marie-France Comeau of Brighton, Ont., and Jessica Lloyd of Belleville ....


----------



## 40below

Oh puh-leeze. Putting aside the irony of someone named Kafka speaking out  against openness in criminal proceedings, even if a word of this had never made the press, every single pers in Trenton would already know as much as they already do, and the rumour mill would have reached nearly everyone else. Defence lawyers file change-of-venue apps as a matter of course, but the hurdles to proving a jury pool is irreperably tainted are daunting and they are hardly ever granted. If the argument Kafka et al could be believed, then every single high-profile case would have to be moved to another jurisdiction owing to such publicity, and they aren't. 

Potential jurors are not asked if they have knowledge of the the case, they are asked if they have formed an opinion on the guilt or innocence of the accused, or have personal biases that would influence their judgement. They're also instructed to form their verdict solely on what they hear in the court, not what they have read in the paper or what their Aunt Sally told them that she had heard from her hairdresser who knows the brother of the accused's neighbour who says the guy definitely did it. Knowledge of a case now will not make it impossible to find 12 people with no opinion on the case two years from now when (and if) Williams goes on trial.


----------



## old medic

Colonel Williams makes court appearance 
Timothy Appleby and Colin Freeze
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/colonel-williams-makes-court-appearance/article1511577/


> Clad in orange prison garb and appearing downcast, the Canadian air force colonel accused of committing a horrifying string of murders and sex attacks appeared briefly in court here by videolink and had his case put over for another month.
> 
> His military buzz cut grown out into a shaggy widow's peak, Colonel Russell Williams was the first inmate from the Quinte Detention Centre in Napanee to appear, on what was a crowded court docket.
> 
> The former commander of 8 Wing/CFB Trenton spoke just twice, when asked if he understood the proceedings.
> 
> “Yes, thank you,” he replied
> 
> His case was put over to April 29 to allow his lawyer, Michael Edelson to digest what was described in court as a “substantial” disclosure package. ........................  continues at link above.


----------



## the 48th regulator

*Col. Williams on suicide watch in jail*

By ROB TRIPP, QMI Agency

Last Updated: April 4, 2010 7:46pm


KINGSTON, Ont - Col. Russell Williams made an elaborate and desperate bid to kill himself over the Easter weekend, QMI Agency has learned.

Sources at the Quinte Dentention Centre in Napanee tell QMI that at roughly 5 a.m. Saturday, the accused serial sex killer wrote a suicide note in mustard on the wall of his segregation cell.

The condiment note was a farewell message saying his affairs are now in order and his feelings are too much to bear.

Aware that he was being closely watched, Williams, 47, jammed the lock in his cell door with cardboard and foil in an attempt to prevent staff from getting into his cell quickly and stopping him, sources said.

Using a cardboard toilet roll stuffed with more foil and cardboard, Williams stuffed it down his throat in an apparent bid to suffocate himself, sources said.

Staff were able to bust into the cell and rescue Williams.

The incident has raised staff fears that Williams won’t survive until his next court appearance on April 29.

He is now on 24-hour, one-on-one suicide watch inside the jail, sources said.

It appears Williams had rehearsed his attempt the day before.

On Friday, sources said Williams jammed a pencil into the lock of his cell door to test how long it would take staff to unjam it. Maintenance staff arrived and opened the door within 15 minutes.

Williams bizarre jailhouse behaviour has been noted before.

When he first entered the provincial facility, immediately after his arrest, Williams acted as though he was a prisoner of war, only giving authorities his name, rank and serial number.

At that time, Williams was assessed by a psychiatrist and deemed a possible suicide risk. His demeanor has been described as “cocky” but “vacant.” He was given a tear- and burn-proof outfit, known among jail workers as an “oven mitt” or “baby doll,” to wear.

Williams, the former base commander at CFB Trenton, is accused of killing Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, of Brighton. Comeau worked at CFB Trenton.

Williams is also accused of two home invasion-sex assaults on two women in the Tweed area in September 2009.

Reached by phone Sunday, Williams’ lawyer Michael Edelson said he had “no comment” on reports that Williams had attempted suicide.

Laura Blondeau, a spokesman for Community Safety and Correction Services Minister Rick Bartolucci, said she couldn’t comment on the status of any individuals inside a provincial facility.

Blondeau added that she couldn’t say, for security reasons, where any particular inmate was being housed.

- With files from QMI Agency

_Copyright © 2010 Toronto Sun All Rights Reserved_


----------



## SeanNewman

Wow...just....wow.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Just another day for those who toil in our detention centres...........only makes the news because it's a "somebody".


----------



## the 48th regulator

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Just another day for those who toil in our detention centres...........only makes the news because it's a "somebody".



I hear you.

It's the modern day fascination with the "Celebrity Criminal" and this one has it all.  Upstanding Citizen, Military Fly Jockey Colonel, Serial killer, Childhood friend of another serial Killer......

dileas

tess


----------



## SeanNewman

I don't really think this is the same though than a celebrity criminal (worse and more shocking).

If people see Brad Pitt going to jail or Michael Jackson dying, it's big news but just for entertainment value; those people don't really have a say in anyone's life.

But for someone like a high-ranking military (or police for that matter) or a judge or politician to go through this sort of thing I really do see it as more significant.

Not because one life (especially an alleged killer's) is worth anymore than someone else's, but it does make it all the more involving, especially for the Trenton folk I'm sure.

Your point is a good one though that in terms of the actual events (murders, criminals trying to commit suicide in custody, etc) being quite common but never heard about because people have the notion that they're just wastes of taxpayer money anyway.  If nothing else it might shine a light on these sorts of things happening for people who otherwise wouldn't care (?)


----------



## the 48th regulator

Petamocto said:
			
		

> I don't really think this is the same though than a celebrity criminal (worse and more shocking).
> 
> If people see Brad Pitt going to jail or Michael Jackson dying, it's big news but just for entertainment value; those people don't really have a say in anyone's life.
> 
> But for someone like a high-ranking military (or police for that matter) or a judge or politician to go through this sort of thing I really do see it as more significant.
> 
> Not because one life (especially an alleged killer's) is worth anymore than someone else's, but it does make it all the more involving, especially for the Trenton folk I'm sure.
> 
> Your point is a good one though that in terms of the actual events (murders, criminals trying to commit suicide in custody, etc) being quite common but never heard about because people have the notion that they're just wastes of taxpayer money anyway.  If nothing else it might shine a light on these sorts of things happening for people who otherwise wouldn't care (?)



Clarify,

Celebrity, in that we celebrate the criminal as a celebrity....

I can guarantee, any person can name five serial killers, faster than they can name off 5 famous Academy award winners.

Humans for centuries have venerated criminals.  Romans had gladiators, Western Dime store comics about Outlaws, etc...etc...

That was what I was alluding too, but you make a dandy point.

dileas

tess


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

I don't want to change the topic but I just want to give an example of what Tess is saying......


Hockey coach in sex abuse case pardoned
Parole board's action in Graham James case comes amid new allegation of abuse
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/790202--hockey-coach-in-sex-abuse-case-pardoned?bn=1

Now in the last 21 years I have seen lots of garbage *far* worse than this clown walk away from their sentence simply because they spun a good enough yarn in front of 3 folks who are nothing but political hackbags.......

They didn't seem to make the news, nor did the Prime Minister want an explanation. :


----------



## the 48th regulator

*Source: Williams tricked staff into believing he was stable*

By ROB TRIPP, QMI Agency

Accused killer Russ Williams was able to make an elaborate suicide attempt in jail because he tricked staff into believing that his mental state had stabilized, sources have told QMI Agency. LUKE HENDRY/QMI Agency

KINGSTON, Ont. - Accused killer Russ Williams was able to make an elaborate suicide attempt in jail because he tricked staff into believing that his mental state had stabilized, sources have told QMI Agency.

Williams, 47, the former commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton, was taken off strict suicide watch at Quinte Detention Centre in Napanee in recent weeks because his behaviour seemed rational and compliant.

He was speaking reservedly to some staff, and he was being polite and respectful. He was often seen reading in his cell.

Because of his conduct, Williams was permitted to wear regular clothes, receive standard meals and was not being watched by security staff around-the-clock.

Authorities now believe he spent considerable time plotting to kill himself.

Early Saturday morning of the Easter weekend, he jammed cardboard and foil-like drink powder packaging into the lock mechanism of his cell door, then pushed a toilet tissue tube filled with more cardboard and foil down his throat in an apparent bid to choke himself to death, QMI learned.


He wrote a suicide note on the wall of his cell in mustard squeezed from packets provided with meals.

Staff were able to quickly open the cell door and rescue Williams before he had seriously injured himself.

Extraordinary security measures have now been imposed and are likely to remain in place for the duration of his stay at Quinte.

Williams is shackled in leg irons and handcuffs every time he leaves his cell, even for showers. He has been stripped of his regular clothing and forced to wear a smock-like anti-suicide gown made from a quilted fabric that cannot be burned, torn or twisted.

The wearer cannot tear off pieces to fashion a noose.

He also is subject to constant surveillance by a staffer posted directly outside his segregation unit cell, where he is housed next to Dean Brown, the 18-year-old man charged with shooting a Belleville area woman and her 14-year-old daughter to death last month.

Sources at Quinte say Williams, who is still receiving regular visits from his wife each week, is now considered a dangerous, conniving prisoner whose conduct is unpredictable.

When he is taken to the jail¹s visiting unit, movement of all other prisoners at Quinte is halted.

Williams is being strip searched daily and his cell is searched each day. He has virtually no contact with other inmates, except those he can see and hear in the segregation unit.

Hamed Shafia, a 19-year-old Montreal man accused of murdering four family members in a purported honour killing in Kingston last year, is housed in the cell directly across from Williams. Shafia¹s two co-accused, his mother and father, are housed in other sections of the jail.

There has been other unusual conduct from Williams since his arrest in early February.

He has been writing in a diary in what appears to be code. The writings are seen by staff who search his cell. The code appears between sentences he writes about the mundane affairs of daily life in a jail.

The suicide message he left noted that his affairs were now in order and that his feelings were too much to bear.

When Williams first arrived at the cramped Napanee facility, he behaved as if he were a prisoner of war, refusing to provide anything except name, rank and serial number.

Despite the extreme precautions that have been taken, authorities remain concerned that Williams, who is extremely intelligent and resourceful, will find other means to try to end his life.

Inmates have attempted suicide by standing on the stainless steel sink in their cells and diving headfirst onto the floor of a cell.

Inmates also have been known to bang their heads on the sink or stainless steel toilet in a bid to injure or kill themselves.

Michael Edelson, the Ottawa lawyer representing Williams, will not answer questions about the suicide attempt or the latest precautions.

“I’m not making any comment about the case,” he told QMI Agency on Monday.

Williams is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of air force flight attendant Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville.

He also is charged with home-invasion sex attacks on two women in the Tweed area in September 2009.

rtripp@thewhig.com

_Copyright © 2010, Canoe Inc. All rights reserved._


----------



## the 48th regulator

*Former military commander accused of murders on hunger strike: report*

Canwest News Service   

NAPANEE,Ont. -- Col. Russell Williams, the former base commander accused of murdering two women and sexually assaulting two more, has gone on a hunger strike in his eastern Ontario jail cell, according to local reports.

The Kingston Whig-Standard reported that Williams, who also attempted suicide Saturday morning at the Quinte Detention Centre, stopped eating on Tuesday morning.

Williams, 47, is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Jessica Lloyd, of Belleville, Ont., and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau of Brighton, Ont. He is also facing sexual assault charges in relation to two home invasions in the Tweed, Ont., area in September 2009.

Williams had been the commander at CanadianForces Base Trenton until he was arrested in February.

Over the Easter weekend, Williams reportedly attempted suicide by stuffing cardboard from a toilet paper roll down his throat.

He is next scheduled to appear in court April 29.

Canwest News Service

© 2010 The National Post Company. All rights reserved. Unauthorized distribution, transmission or republication strictly prohibited.


----------



## the 48th regulator

*Accused colonel on hunger strike, off suicide watch: report*  

By Citizen staff , The Ottawa CitizenApril 8, 2010 6:58 AM  


*Ottawa — Accused killer Col. Russell Williams was taken off 24-hour suicide watch as a cost-saving measure just days after he made an attempt on his own life and began a hunger strike, a former jail employee suggested in a Kingston newspaper Wednesday.*

Lee Currie, a former employee of the Napanee jail where Williams is being held, told the Kingston Whig-Standard that around-the-clock monitoring is “costly.”


The financial restraint of Quinte Detention Centre management was a frequent source of irritation for staff when Currie was union vice-president, he said. Though he left the jail four years ago, Currie said he is still in contact with Quinte staff.


Williams, the former base commander of CFB Trenton, is charged with first-degree murder in connection with the deaths of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, of Brighton, Ont. and 27-year-old Belleville-native Jessica Lloyd. He also faces sexual assault charges relating to two September home invasions in the Tweed area.


Earlier this week, the Whig-Standard reported that Williams had tried to kill himself by wedging pieces of toilet paper roll in his throat at about 5 a.m. Saturday.


He had used mustard to write a suicide note on the wall of his cell, stating his affairs were in order and that his feelings were too much to bear, unnamed sources told the Whig-Standard.


Williams had rehearsed the excercise Friday, the paper reported, jamming the lock of his cell with a pencil, which held for 15 minutes.


On Saturday morning, staff were able to force their way into Williams' cell even after he reportedly jammed his cell door with cardboard and foil.


Since restrictions were reportedly eased Tuesday, Williams has been permitted to wear normal clothing during the day instead of an anti-suicide gown — an armless smock made from material that cannot be torn or burned. He must still wear the gown overnight, the paper said.


Michael Edelson, Williams lawyer, would neither confirm nor deny any of the events reported in the Whig-Standard when reached at his home Wednesday evening.


Quinte jail officials deferred comment to Ontario’s Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services. A spokesman there also declined to comment on Williams’ situation Wednesday night.



© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

It is VERY expensive to keep one on one round the clock.  Lets see, 24 times $45 [ot] plus shift premiums and relief staff on top of the normal cost factor of segregation.

..and the goal of suicide watch is to bring the prisoner around to a state where he/she no longer feels that urge, and slowly returning to "normal" clothes is one factor.


Once again, this is nothing even slightly abnormal behavior-wise to those good folks working in our  DC's.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Bruce,

Thank you for that.  I am only preaching to the choir when I say this, but people have to understand, there are a prison full of other perps that you must watch.

If Williams is determined to do it, short of putting him in a coma, he will do it.  The safety of the Staff, and other prisoners, and the elimination of further criminal activity is a priority, not give this man an audience.

dileas

tess


----------



## captloadie

How does an editor allow this article to get published as news? Other than the one liner and the title, nothiing talks about the hunger strike. And a guy who left 4 years ago is a source that he has been taken off suicide watch, which by the way, has nothing to do with a hunger strike. At least they could imply that he is trying to commit suicide by not eating instead of using a violent means that will only get him closely watched again.

Slow news Day? Bad editor? Worse reporter?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

...and don't forget, there is a very good chance this is all cold calculated maneuvering between him and his lawyer to go for the [1] sympathy, [2] remorseful, [3] not criminally responsible, [4] other plans, at the trial/sentencing  that media attention can only heighten.

I think we can all agree that he didn't get to the position he held by being caught unprepared......


----------



## zipperhead_cop

What a time wasting, attention seeking donkey    IMO, Williams is just trying to create a defense of diminished capacity by trying to act like he is crazy.  Just more manipulative BS.  



			
				Petamocto said:
			
		

> If people see Brad Pitt going to jail or Michael Jackson dying, it's big news but just for entertainment value; those people don't really have a say in anyone's life.



And Williams doesn't have any say in anyones life either.  He is a prisoner.  



			
				Petamocto said:
			
		

> But for someone like a high-ranking military (or police for that matter) or a judge or politician to go through this sort of thing I really do see it as more significant.
> Not because one life (especially an alleged killer's) is worth anymore than someone else's, but it does make it all the more involving, especially for the Trenton folk I'm sure.



So how is it that what you said doesn't qualify Williams as something of a celebrity?  That term can have negative connotations too.  



			
				Petamocto said:
			
		

> Your point is a good one though that in terms of the actual events (murders, criminals trying to commit suicide in custody, etc) being quite common but never heard about because people have the notion that they're just wastes of taxpayer money anyway.  If nothing else it might shine a light on these sorts of things happening for people who otherwise wouldn't care (?)



Sorry, why should anyone care?  In my experience, the attempts are invariably BS and are just meant to garner attention and/or get a free trip to the hospital to relieve boredom/facilitate an escape.  I will defer to Bruce and his experience as to the percentile of legitmate attempts vs. fake.  

And if you feel the need to launch into a prisoner rights advocacy tangent, please start a new thread.  This is a decent discussion and doesn't need to be locked.


----------



## SeanNewman

Zipperhead,

You have my respect in this discussion as someone who has more prisoner experience than most, and your assessments on why you believe prisoners act the way they do have been noted.

Nobody has suggested he has special powers or deserves special attention.

I was only making the distinction that until very recently he had command over thousands of people, where as a movie celebrity is only a jester.

Yes he is just a prisoner now and no different than the others he is with, a person who had command or operational dealings with him are bound to take more interest than a movie celebrity would garner from fans.

I fully agree with you that celibrity can just as easily mean bad as good.

He is unquestionably the same as other prisoners and unquestionably different at the same time, both of which can be argued with 100% correctness.


----------



## Staff Weenie

I am inclined to believe that this is a very calculated move on his behalf.  His alleged crimes would seem to indicate a psychopath personality disorder – an ability to commit terrible crimes with no empathy for the victim, no conscience, and no remorse at all.  Yet his act would seem to show, or is calculated to show, ‘remorse’.  Or, perhaps it is his way of maintaining control – the only aspect over which he still has control is his very existence.  By ending it, he demonstrates that society had no power over him. 

By no means do I believe it at all demonstrates any contrition on his part.  He is most probably extremely intelligent, and extremely manipulative, this is one more act in the play he’s staging.


----------



## Steel Badger

A cardboard tube down the yap does not say suicide, it says" cry for help" or cry for judicial sympathy".

Inmates that really WANT to end it all most often succed, despite the best efforts of Unit officers. 

This chap is playing to his intended audience.


----------



## mariomike

I was sent into suicide scenes all my working life. Usually, they were unsuccessful. After a while, it begins to take a toll on you. The in-custody suicides were much easier, because you did not have to consol the family.


----------



## George Wallace

Time for a lot of you to do the "Conduct after Capture" class again.  Looks like he is in Phase II.


----------



## 1feral1

Suicide watch eh, hummmm.

We had a mass-murderer here who emptied his toothpaste tube and then swallowed that, choking etc, but since he was being observed via cam on suicide watch, he was immediatly taken away, and the tube removed from his throat. It is still alive.

Maybe Ross should try this method, should he think of taking the easy way out?

Another bloke, the notorious Ivan Milat, the backpack serial killer, recently somehow cut off his pinky and ate it before it could be retrieved by staff. I wonder if it was 'finger licking good', ha!

OWDU


----------



## mariomike

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Another bloke, the notorious Ivan Milat, the backpack serial killer, recently somehow cut off his pinky and ate it before it could be retrieved by staff. I wonder if it was 'finger licking good', ha!



"Serial killer Ivan Milat will spend the rest of his life without freedom and also without the little finger on his left hand after he severed the digit with a plastic serrated knife":
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/medics-unable-to-reattach-milats-finger-20090127-7qg5.html

He didn't actually eat it.:
"He was taken to Goulburn Base Hospital along with the finger with hopes it could be reattached, but a corrective services department spokeswoman said the procedure was not possible."

"with hopes it could be reattached" I bet.
I wonder if it "accidentally" got dropped down the toilet? "I'm sorry about that, sir."

Says he has a history of swallowing razor blades and parts of his toilet!

There is also some discussion about the financial burden of guarding high maintenance prisoners for the rest of their unnatural lives. 

He sounds like a real piece of work:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/milat/discovery_1.html?sect=3

I thought they only got spoons? I've seen the guards at the Don count and lock them. Spaghetti Day must be interesting.


----------



## 1feral1

Thanks for the clarifiction on the 'not eating', as I had read somewhere he did or attempted to, but your souce was and is much more reliable.

Yes ole Ivan is a real classic, and one good reason why the gallows should be returned to service.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## SeanNewman

Not necessary to start a new thread out of this since it's applicable to the subject, but for the police/guard crowd what is the SOP for a hunger strike?  

I would imagine at some point he would have to be forced to consume something.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Not necessary to start a new thread out of this since it's applicable to the subject, but for the police/guard crowd what is the SOP for a hunger strike?
> 
> I would imagine at some point he would have to be forced to consume something.



That is not necessarily the case, if worse comes to worse than the Senior Medical Consultant and the Director, Legal Services are consulted and that's all I can say.


----------



## mariomike

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Not necessary to start a new thread out of this since it's applicable to the subject, but for the police/guard crowd what is the SOP for a hunger strike?
> I would imagine at some point he would have to be forced to consume something.



Stuart McGetrick, a Toronto spokesman for the Ministry of Correctional Services, had this to say, "We can't compel an inmate to consume food or fluids. If an inmate required medical attention, they would receive it."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/08/williams-hunger-strike.html

"If an inmate becomes weak or incapacitated because of a hunger strike, medical care will be provided, including the possibility of transferring the prisoner to an outside hospital."
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2524593

I guess the medical question is, "How long can a hunger strike last?":
http://www.slate.com/id/2102228/


----------



## SeanNewman

MarioMike,

Thank you once again...you are quite the researcher!

That last article brings up an interesting question because it seems like "cheating" to some extent to take vitamins, salt, or specifically water in order to prolong it.

I wonder what goes on in the head of someone who plans a hunger strike who is also willing to draw it out.  More importantly, is it really a strike at all if you are still willfully consuming selected things?

If you want to kill yourself by starving, why eat or drink anything?  Why still drink water to extend a few days into months?  If you just want attention, what sort of special treatment are you going to get?  It's not even like protesters who do it to draw attention to their cause.

It's just bizarre.  I like to understand things and I don't get this.


----------



## mariomike

Petamocto said:
			
		

> It's just bizarre.  I like to understand things and I don't get this.



Guards will document meals served, and meals refused. Jail management will monitor the documents. Doctors will monitor the prisoner. PR people will issue statements to the reporters so they can keep us news readers informed. I can understand all that. Rules and procedures must be followed in every organization.

What I wish there was a fast answer to, is when you have to rush a little kid into hospital because the parents couldn't be bothered to feed her or him. How do you prevent that from happening?


----------



## OldSolduer

mariomike said:
			
		

> Stuart McGetrick, a Toronto spokesman for the Ministry of Correctional Services, had this to say, "We can't compel an inmate to consume food or fluids. If an inmate required medical attention, they would receive it."
> http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/08/williams-hunger-strike.html
> 
> "If an inmate becomes weak or incapacitated because of a hunger strike, medical care will be provided, including the possibility of transferring the prisoner to an outside hospital."
> http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2524593
> 
> I guess the medical question is, "How long can a hunger strike last?":
> http://www.slate.com/id/2102228/


Having been a Correctional Officer for almost 10 years, this information is correct. 

I beleive Bobby Sands (IRA terrorist) lasted 66 days before dieing.


----------



## mariomike

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> Having been a Correctional Officer for almost 10 years, this information is correct.
> I beleive Bobby Sands (IRA terrorist) lasted 66 days before dieing.



Silverback, there was a movie made recently on the subject.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(2008_film)


----------



## Tank Troll

I was just recently on course with some guys from Trenton that served with him, and from what I gather he was pretty Narcissistic.


----------



## OldSolduer

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> I was just recently on course with some guys from Trenton that served with him, and from what I gather he was pretty Narcissistic.


Typical characteristic of serial criminals. John Douglas and Robert Ressler developed psychological profiling. "Anatomy of Motive" is a good read!


----------



## mariomike

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> Typical characteristic of serial criminals. John Douglas and Robert Ressler developed psychological profiling. "Anatomy of Motive" is a good read!



If convicted of both murders, _technically_ he would not qualify as a serial killer:

"With only two confirmed kills, Ed did not technically qualify as a serial killer (the traditional minimum requirement was three), but that did not deny him immediate entry into the pantheon of folk mythology."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer


----------



## OldSolduer

He's got two murders right now, plus two sexual assaults where he didn't kill. Close enough don't you think?


----------



## SeanNewman

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> He's got two [alleged] murders right now...



May also accept the words "extremely probable", but such is the legal system we defend.


----------



## OldSolduer

Petamocto said:
			
		

> May also accept the words "extremely probable", but such is the legal system we defend.



Thanks for the corrrection. He may have more across the country that may be under investigation. Tiime will tell.


----------



## SeanNewman

Haha, he is also *alleged *to have stolen about a dozen staplers from my desk that keep disappearing, too.


----------



## mariomike

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> He's got two murders right now, plus two sexual assaults where he didn't kill. Close enough don't you think?



Close enough for me. Would I ever quibble with you, Silverback?


----------



## OldSolduer

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Haha, he is also *alleged *to have stolen about a dozen staplers from my desk that keep disappearing, too.


 Maybe our NIS should investigate "serial staple" theives? Joking!! >


----------



## GAP

Is Russell Williams still grasping for control?
Colonel tried suicide and has stopped eating. Forensic experts attempt to explain why
Article Link

Many years ago, a young Russell Williams found himself locked in his dorm room at Upper Canada College, the victim of a prank by younger students who had used pennies to jam the door.

Williams, who lived on an upper floor, could have simply opened his window and called for help. Instead, he used sheets to make a rope, anchored it to an old radiator and scaled down through the open window.

He escaped – on his terms.

The story, recalled recently by a former UCC student who asked not to be named, may shed light on Williams' recent suicide attempt, and his current hunger strike.

The former commander of CFB Trenton is a man accustomed to being in control of many things. Now in jail accused of serial murders and sexual assaults, he has lost control of almost everything.

As he sits in Quinte Detention Centre in Napanee, down the highway from his old base, he seems to be trying to control what little he has left, suggests Stephen Raffle, a California forensic psychiatrist.

"I think the major thing is loss of control and trying to remain in control of an out-of-control situation," says Raffle, who has interviewed serial killers and gives expert testimony in criminal cases.

If Williams were to kill himself, a public airing of the alleged crimes would be greatly diminished. There would be no trial and no plea option, which would eliminate the need for an agreed statement of facts that would become public.

Williams, who has made two video court appearances since he was charged in February, carefully executed a suicide plan over Easter weekend, according to a story in the Kingston Whig-Standard.
More on link


----------



## Jarnhamar

Call me sick but I'm cheering for this guy to win his hunger strike.


----------



## observor 69

I read that if you are still drinking water it takes about two months to die.
I believe he is still drinking water?


----------



## SeanNewman

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> I believe he is still drinking water?



That got up a couple pages ago, it's almost like it's cheating (for lack of a better word).

The question was asked what could his intent really be, because if he wanted to just starve himself to death to end his ordeal, drinking water seems kind of counter-intuitive.  

Some of the people who work in the field said it is typically done for either attention or in thinking that you'll be able to use it to your advantage during the trial.


----------



## mariomike

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Some of the people who work in the field said it is typically done for either attention or in thinking that you'll be able to use it to your advantage during the trial.



Maybe sometimes people just loose the will to live.

"He hasn’t made any demands relating to his hunger strike. A psychiatrist who evaluated Williams said he simply wants to die, the report states.":
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/74040--col-russell-williams-reportedly-on-hunger-strike

“There’s a lot that he doesn’t want to come out at trial or through a guilty plea," a source close to the investigation said. “This would be his way of trying to make sure of that."
"In Canada, there appears to be no precedent for a person charged with murder escaping trial through self-starvation.":
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-commander-russell-williams-on-hunger-strike/article1529801/


----------



## SeanNewman

mariomike said:
			
		

> Maybe sometimes people just loose the will to live.



I think they lose their marbles first, but my post-secondary Psychology 101 hardly makes me an expert.

I can't imagine being imprisoned, really.  You would torture yourself more than anyone else ever could because it's all mental, and I think the smarter you are the worse it is.


----------



## Monsoon

Petamocto said:
			
		

> That got up a couple pages ago, it's almost like it's cheating (for lack of a better word).
> 
> The question was asked what could his intent really be, because if he wanted to just starve himself to death to end his ordeal, drinking water seems kind of counter-intuitive.


I'm inclined to disagree, since he did make a pretty legitimate attempt to kill himself by stuffing a toilet paper roll packed with aluminum foil down his throat. That's not something I associate with attention-seekers.

It may be that starving yourself gradually of food is easier than cutting off water; you can quell hunger pangs with water, but it's really tough to put up with being thirsty for too long. If he stopped drinking water, he would be quickly hospitalized and put on an IV drip to rehydrate, so it wouldn't speed things along from his perspective (indeed, it would probably be an IV drip with glucose and vitamins, and that would slow things even more).

As for why he wants to kill himself, given that sociopaths can't feel remorse I suppose it would have to be a matter of calculation. Possible thought process: the evidence against him is insurmountable and he will ultimately be found guilty if he goes to trial. He would almost certainly be dishonourably released as part of his sentence, meaning that he would not receive his pension. If he kills himself before he goes to trial the case will not be heard his wife can still receive survivor benefits.


----------



## armyvern

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> He would almost certainly be dishonourably released as part of his sentence, meaning that he would not receive his pension. If he kills himself before he goes to trial the case will not be heard his wife can still receive survivor benefits.



Which jingles something in my head ... perhaps it's already been posted & I missed it, but has there been any follow up to the matter of the accused and his receiving of pay?


Back in the day, one of the troops I knew ended up in civ jail with no bail. Seeing as how he wasn't showing up to work every day (obviously), he was placed on annual leave, and, when that ran out, his leave pass done up for the remainder of his accumulated ... and when that ran out --- his leave pass was done up for LWOP. Once that leave on his books was gone: it was LWOP, and he didn't receive a cent because he had no leave left and was not reporting for duty. 

I'd assume that the same would be applicable in this circumstance ... or not??


----------



## mariomike

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Which jingles something in my head ... perhaps it's already been posted & I missed it, but has there been any follow up to the matter of the accused and his receiving of pay?



"It’s unknown if the money is being used to pay the mortgage of the home he shared with his wife until his arrest."
"Even if convicted, Williams will receive his pension because the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act determines when a former member is entitled to a pension."
http://news.therecord.com/article/696452



"According to the Defence Department, Col. Williams is drawing his salary while behind bars in accordance with a rule stipulating that a member of the Canadian Forces may continue to be paid, pending the outcome of a trial.":
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2785138

"Accused killer Russ Williams still collecting colonel’s salary":
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Accused+killer+Russell+Williams+still+collecting+colonel+salary/2784966/story.html


----------



## armyvern

mariomike said:
			
		

> I think I saw something on TV that he remains on full pay. If convicted, he will have to forfit that pay.



Well, if that's the case, apparently things have changed then.

The argument for requiring the troop to utilize leave, then LWOP was that he was not reporting for duty --- and that he was not "being found guilty prior to being convicted" as the CF had taken no action to release him or discipline him. That came only after he was found guilty.


----------



## Monsoon

mariomike said:
			
		

> "According to the Defence Department, Col. Williams is drawing his salary while behind bars in accordance with a rule stipulating that a member of the Canadian Forces may continue to be paid, pending the outcome of a trial.":
> http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2785138
> 
> "Accused killer Russ Williams still collecting colonel’s salary":
> http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Accused+killer+Russell+Williams+still+collecting+colonel+salary/2784966/story.html


But being relatively fresh off the Presiding Officer course, I remember they told us that in cases where someone is in custody pending trial they're "paid" into a special account that is held by the crown until there's a finding of guilt or innocence. If innocent, the pay is released to the member; if guilty it's garnished back.

So, yes, he's being "paid", but he's not ever going to see a dime of it.


----------



## mariomike

Regarding CF pension:
"Even if convicted, Williams will receive his pension because the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act determines when a former member is entitled to a pension."
“Entitlements are linked to years of service, not reason for leaving the Canadian Forces,” she said.
http://news.therecord.com/article/696452


----------



## zipperhead_cop

As much as it seems wrong for this guy to get a cent, in all reality it is his poor wife who didn't ask for any of this who will benefit.  She ends up being a victim too.  I personally don't care if my tax dollars end up going in her direction.  It's just cold consolation.  

And the toilet paper/tin foil thing was idiotic.  There is no way that would have worked.  The guy is on a camera 24/7.  He would know that the guards would come in and stop him.  It was just attention seeking BS.  Jump off a bench and land on your head sideways, snap your neck.  Drive the back of your skull into a sharp corner.  It is doable if he puts his mind to it.


----------



## SeanNewman

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> As much as it seems wrong for this guy to get a cent...
> 
> He would know that the guards would come in and stop him.  It was just attention seeking BS.  Jump off a bench and land on your head sideways, snap your neck.  Drive the back of your skull into a sharp corner.  It is doable if he puts his mind to it.



1.  Not really.  Perception and probability of guilt do not = guilty.  He deserves to still be presumed innocent until proven otherwise, as that's the house of cards the whole system is based on.

2.  I tried asking a question about that a week ago and some people took it the wrong way.  The only answer that came out of it was that hanging is the most-probable way to do it.  I brought it up under the context of being a Taliban prisoner for years and wanting to know how you could end it, but then some left-wingers quoted the TMST lecture stating that it's our duty to hang in there indefinitely, and acted like knowing that you may want to commit suicide is enough to beat the feelings of ever wanting to do it.  Anyway, to get back to your point, that question was never answered whether or not jumping off your bed head first would actually kill you, paralyze you, etc.


----------



## mariomike

Petamocto said:
			
		

> 2.  I tried asking a question about that a week ago and some people took it the wrong way.  The only answer that came out of it was that hanging is the most-probable way to do it.



http://www.insideprison.com/suicide-methods-in-prison.asp
http://everything2.com/title/Committing+suicide+in+prison


----------



## SeanNewman

MarioMike,

Thanks you very much for posting those.

It does seem that hanging remains #1, but the #2 of trying to kill yourself by OD'ing on the countless drugs seems much less desirable and almost always results in painful convulsions, kidney/liver failure, and projectile vomiting.  Some on jumping off a roof, but very little on the option of running into the wall with your head down or trying to dive off your bed.

To me, nothing in this world would be worse than being in jail _and_ a quadriplegic.


----------



## mariomike

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> As much as it seems wrong for this guy to get a cent, in all reality it is his poor wife who didn't ask for any of this who will benefit.  She ends up being a victim too.  I personally don't care if my tax dollars end up going in her direction.  It's just cold consolation.



It seems pensions are protected. 
Although this is American law, and a civil suit, OJ Simpson seems to be financially protected: "Simpson lives in Florida, where homestead laws protect a person's house against seizure for the payment of court judgments. His pension from the National Football League, which has been estimated at $400,000 a year ( 2006 ), also cannot be seized."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/17/arts/17iht-web.1117book.3577524.html

Edit to add:
"Civil trial for wrongful death:
On February 5, 1997 a civil jury in Santa Monica, California unanimously found Simpson liable for the wrongful death of and battery against Goldman, and battery against Brown. <snip> Simpson was ordered to pay $33,500,000 in damages."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson#Civil_trial_for_wrongful_death


----------



## SeanNewman

Well obviously OJ was innocent so that's a different matter  :


----------



## Jarnhamar

Why not give him a pistol and a bullet?  Or a samurai sword or something.

If he wants to take his own life and save us thousands upon thousands of dollars then so much the better.


----------



## George Wallace

We do still have an investigation on going.  Did he commit more offences, in more places, over the length of his career?  Is there a chance he will provide more information?  Lots of questions still to be answered.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Why not give him a pistol and a bullet?  Or a samurai sword or something.
> 
> If he wants to take his own life and save us thousands upon thousands of dollars then so much the better.



1.  This is Canada.  As a nation, we don't have that kind of intestinal fortitude.  
2.  The way the system is, there is a good chance whatever guards were on duty at the time would be in the breach for some discipline action.
3.  I'm still betting that he is full of crap and this is some sort of idiotic play to run with an insanity defense.  Or just being an attention seeking tool.  I would also bet that if you put a loaded pistol in his hand, he'd just sit there.  This pump was a tough guy with terrified, bound women.  He just simply wouldn't have the stones.

If he is really anxious to cap himself, he can probably get it done in prison after he is sentenced.


----------



## Monsoon

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> And the toilet paper/tin foil thing was idiotic.  There is no way that would have worked.  The guy is on a camera 24/7.  He would know that the guards would come in and stop him.  It was just attention seeking BS.


He blocked the slide lock on the door to prevent guards form getting in to rescue him; the week before, he blocked the lock just to see how long it would take for them to get in regardless (at that time, it was about 15 minutes if I remember rightly). The suicide attempt may be many things, but unpremeditated it ain't.



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> It seems pensions are protected.
> Although this is American law, and a civil suit, OJ Simpson seems to be financially protected: "Simpson lives in Florida, where homestead laws protect a person's house against seizure for the payment of court judgments. His pension from the National Football League, which has been estimated at $400,000 a year ( 2006 ), also cannot be seized."
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/17/arts/17iht-web.1117book.3577524.html


Yep - Williams will eventually receive his pension... when he's released. But he's looking at life and then some, so (like the money he's being "paid") he's not going to see a pension either.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> (at that time, it was about 15 minutes if I remember rightly)



That's what the media says.......................


----------



## PMedMoe

*Col. Williams faces break-in charges*

Police are poised to lay charges in connection with Ottawa break-ins allegedly linked to accused rapist and killer Col. Russell Williams. 

The charges are expected to come as early as Thursday by the Ontario Provincial Police, according to police sources. 

As soon as Williams was booked on two first-degree murder charges in February, police in the Ottawa area opened their files to find connections to local sex crimes. 

Police were specifically looking at incidents where women's underwear were stolen during several 2008 break-ins in the area where Williams lived at the time. 

Williams is already charged in the deaths of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, and Jessica Lloyd, 27. He was also charged with two home-invasion sex assaults. 

Those charges stem from investigations by OPP in the Belleville area.  
  
While OPP have been investigating the violent attacks in eastern Ontario, after his arrest police immediately swooped into the trendy home Williams shared with his wife. Police put the home under a forensic lockdown for a week as they searched for evidence. 

Some of the items hauled away included hundreds of pairs of women's underwear. 

The investigation would soon stretch across the city. 

More on link


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Col. Russell Williams faces 82 more charges
All linked to break and enters in Ontario
Last Updated: Thursday, April 29, 2010 | 8:25 AM ET 
CBC News 






Municipal and provincial police have added 82 charges against Col. Russell Williams in relation to break-ins in Ottawa, Bellevelle and Tweed, all in Ontario. (Department of National Defence/Canadian Press) 

Police have charged a former CFB Trenton commander who is already facing two first-degree murder charges with 82 more offences in connection with unsolved break and enter crimes in Ottawa, Belleville and Tweed in Ontario.

Col. Russell Williams, who is scheduled to make an appearance via video in a Belleville court Thursday, is already facing charges of first-degree murder in the deaths of air force flight attendant Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, who worked at CFT Trenton, and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville.

Williams has also been charged with home-invasion sex attacks on two women in September that also occurred in eastern Ontario.

The new charges announced Thursday are:

•61 counts of break, enter and theft.
•11 counts of attempted break and enter.
•10 counts of break and enter with intent to commit an indictable offence.

The Ottawa Police Service, Belleville Police Service and OPP, with the assistance of Canadian Forces National Investigation Service, said they reviewed unsolved crimes in the vicinity of Ottawa, Belleville and Tweed before laying the new charges.

Police said these charges represent the known offences that have been linked to Williams to date.

Williams was arrested Feb. 7 and has been held at the Quinte Detention Centre in nearby Napanee.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Available here or attached if link doesn't work:


> Today, April 29, 2010, the Major Case Management Team, led by Ontario Provincial Police (OPP), Criminal Investigations Branch, working jointly with Belleville Police (BPS), Ottawa Police (OPS) and the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS) laid more charges against 46-year-old Russell Williams, of Tweed, Ontario.
> 
> The Ottawa Police Service, Belleville Police Service and OPP, with the assistance of CFNIS, reviewed unsolved crimes in the vicinity of Ottawa, Belleville and Tweed. As a result, Williams faces 82 additional charges.
> 
> WILLIAMS is further charged with:
> 
> Belleville Police Jurisdiction
> ------------------------------
> 2 counts break, enter and theft
> 
> Ottawa Police Jurisdiction - All within the Fallingbrook area
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> 23 counts break, enter and theft
> 3 counts break and enter with intent to commit an indictable offence
> 8 counts attempt break and enter
> 
> Tweed/OPP Jurisdiction
> ----------------------
> 36 counts break, enter and theft
> 7 break and enter with intent to commit an indictable offence
> 3 counts attempt break and enter
> 
> Following an extensive review of unsolved crimes relating to homicides, missing persons, sexual assaults and break and enters within these jurisdictions, (Ottawa, Belleville and Tweed), these charges today, represent the known offences that have been linked to Russell WILLIAMS to date.
> 
> On Sunday, February 7, 2010 Williams was arrested for the murders of Jessica Lloyd and Marie Comeau. He remains in custody ....


----------



## Ammo

Russell Williams to plead guilty to all charges 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/russell-williams-to-plead-guilty-to-all-charges/article1551083/
 Col. Russell Williams appears in court via a video link in Belleville, Ont. in this court sketch made Thursday, Feb.18, 2010. THE CANADIAN PRESS
Sources tell The Globe the former commander of CFB Trenton will plead guilty to multiple murder, sexual assault charges, including 82 new burglary related charges

Prosecutors and defence counsel for accused killer and sex predator Colonel Russell Williams have reached an agreement in principle that would see the former air base commander plead guilty to all the charges against him, including 82 new burglary-related charges laid this week, two sources close to the investigation confirm.

Held in an isolation cell at the Quinte Detention Centre in Napanee since shortly after his arrest in February, Col. Williams has ended his hunger strike, one of the sources also said.

“He wants to get this over with, he’s had enough,” the source said. “There’s been a resolution.”

In a brief court appearance by video link Thursday to address the fresh charges and remand his case to June, Col. Williams, 47, looked fitter and less haggard than he did during his last court date five weeks ago.

Since then he has made an abortive suicide attempt, by stuffing a cardboard toilet roll down his throat, and subsequently stopped eating.

“But he backed off on that and he’s eating again,” a source said.

Clad in his orange jail-issue jump suit during his five-minute court appearance, the former commander of the 8 Wing/CFB Trenton air base spoke briefly off-camera to Trenton lawyer Paul Lamain, acting as agent for the colonel’s Ottawa-based chief defence counsel, Michael Edelson.

Hastings County Crown attorney Lee Burgess also told presiding Justice of the Peace Deanna Chapelle that “there has been disclosure provided” to Col. Williams's legal team, with more coming.

Col. Williams agreed to waive a reading of the new charges, and his case was remanded to June 24.

More at link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/russell-williams-to-plead-guilty-to-all-charges/article1551083/


----------



## ekpiper

My word, that is a lot of charges!  How did a guy like this fly under the radar for so many years?


----------



## the 48th regulator

*
Case keeps growing against accused sex-killer Russell Williams
*


By Gary Dimmock and Linda Nguyen , Canwest News Service - April 30, 2010 7:31 AM  



It was the one house where the burglar literally covered his tracks in the snowy backyard in December 2008, putting on the vacationing homeowner’s boots to stomp over his own footprints before going back in through the patio door and searching high and low for women’s lingerie. 


He finally found it, tucked away in the upper shelf of a closet in the spare bedroom. He walked right past money and jewelry and then tried, unsuccessfully, to hack into the home computer. 


He left through the front door and, when the neighbours saw it wide open the next day, they called police. 

It was just one of 34 lingerie break-ins in Orléans that Ontario Provincial Police have pinned on accused sex killer Russell Williams, 47.


The disgraced former commander of CFB Trenton, already facing first-degree murder charges in the sex killings of two women, was charged Thursday with 82 break-and-enters — 46 in Tweed, Ont., where he has a cottage, and two in Belleville, along with the 34 in Ottawa.


Police say Williams targeted homes in the Fallingbrook neighbourhood of Orléans, where he lived with his wife until last fall. Police say he targeted several homes on Wilkie Drive, where he lived for about 10 years and where he was often seen walking with his wife, hand in hand. 


Other times, he would be seen alone, jogging. Police say he was casing his targets, all women. 

They say the intruder never left fingerprints and stole women’s lingerie exclusively. 

In a lengthy interview on a Sunday in February at Ottawa police headquarters, Williams allegedly directed detectives to so-called trophies at his new home at 473 Edison Ave. in Westboro, including photographic images and more than 500 pairs of women’s underwear taken in break-ins.


Some of the evidence, according to a search warrant linked to the murders and sex assaults, included items such as photographs, thongs, bras, panties and baby blankets.


In one Orléans home, the intruder took undergarments not only from a mother’s bedroom, but also from her daughter’s. In that home, the intruder collected all the photographs in the teenager’s room and placed them on her bed, spreading them out like a deck of cards.


The rash of lingerie break-ins in 2008 left the neighbourhood on edge. Many installed surveillance systems and Ottawa police launched an undercover operation with the hopes of catching the burglar. 


Detectives feared the crimes could escalate specifically because of their sexual overtones. They deployed undercover officers in unmarked cars and had officers posing as late-night strollers.


The intruder they were looking for always popped back or side windows to get in. And, as if the homes had been cased, the crimes occurred at night when the women were away. Police feared the late-night burglar with an underwear fetish would go from break-ins to home invasions with women as targets.


Williams is charged with first-degree murder in the sex killings of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, a military flight attendant, and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville. The sex killings happened a year after the lingerie break-ins in Orléans. On Feb. 8, Williams allegedly led them to the body of Lloyd, who had last been seen Jan. 28. 


Williams is also charged in two home-invasion sex assaults that happened within walking distance of his lakeside cottage in Tweed. In those cases, he is accused of breaking into the victims’ homes, tying them naked to chairs, blindfolding them, then sexually assaulting and photographing them.


Ontario Provincial Police began focusing on Williams in early February after they matched tire tracks to his Nissan Pathfinder.


On Thursday, Williams, who still collects a military salary of almost $12,000 a month, appeared in court on the new charges.


He appeared serious, stood straight and clearly replied that his name was “David Russell Williams,” when asked to do so by the judge.


Through his lawyer, he requested that the new charges against him not be read aloud in court, but did not give a reason why. The judge complied with the accused sex killer’s request and the disgraced colonel thanked the jurist.


His next scheduled court date has been set for June 24. 

He has not entered a plea on any of the charges. 

Lt.-Col. Tony O’Keeffe, representing the military, attended the court hearing. O’Keeffe, who has known Williams and his wife for years, said just 10 days ago he visited Williams, who reportedly attempted suicide earlier this month.


“I think he’s getting better,” he said outside the courtroom. “I think time, I guess, cures all. He looks better to me.”


O’Keeffe said he’s visited Williams three times and plans to ask him about the new charges. He said it was difficult to get Williams to open up about anything.


“(I talk to him) through very artificial means. It’s like talking through a brick wall. It’s very secluded and time is a restriction,” said O’Keeffe. “He’s under guard. He’s in prison … I mean it’s not designed for fun time. It’s cold and I just want to get out of there when I’m in there myself.”


O’Keeffe said his visits are meant to update Williams on the military involvement in his case. 

“I discussed his administrative (military) review and the fact that we’re in, I suppose, a holding pattern while the investigation unfolds,” he said. “People are being quiet about the whole thing.”


If the accused sex killer pleads guilty or is found guilty, the military will request that he pays back the salary he’s been paid since his arrest.


During the visits, Williams asked O’Keeffe about his family, but is not eager to learn more about the outside world. He didn’t know if Williams’ wife or any other soldier has visited him since his February arrest.


O’Keeffe said he didn’t think Williams still sees himself as a military man, but said that he was being treated “fairly” in jail by the staff and other inmates.


The Ontario Provincial Police is leading the Williams investigation, with help from Ottawa police, Belleville police and the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service. OPP Sgt. Kristine Rae said further charges could be laid, as the investigation is continuing. 


A newspaper reported earlier this month that Williams had been placed under 24-hour suicide watch following a failed attempt to take his life. 


The Kingston Whig-Standard reported Williams tried to kill himself by jamming a toilet paper roll stuffed with cardboard down his throat. Cardboard and foil were found jammed in the cell door in an effort to stop staff from entering during the attempt. He had also reportedly written a suicide note in mustard on the wall. 


Williams had reportedly gone on a hunger strike and was acting like a prisoner of war, only responding to questions by authorities with his name, rank and serial number.


Gary Dimmock writes for the Citizen. Linda Nguyen writes for Canwest News Service. With a file from Global News 


_© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen_

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Case+keeps+growing+against+accused+killer+Russell+Williams/2966782/story.html#ixzz0maVviQtc


----------



## George Wallace

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

 Victim slams police in Col. Williams case
17/04/2010 11:20:26 AM

Article Link

*A sexual assault victim from Tweed, Ont., said she felt "totally betrayed" by police when she learned Col. Russell Williams had been charged with dozens of other crimes dating back to 2007.*

"I'm just sick about it," the woman told CBC News on Thursday. "They kept telling me this [assault] was a one-time occurrence - this was just a sex pervert that wanted pictures and it's their experience that this person would never return."

The woman was sexually assaulted and photographed during a home invasion on Sept. 30, 2009. In February, 47-year-old Williams, then commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton, was charged in that attack, along with an earlier home invasion and sexual assault.

He was also charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37.

On Thursday, he was charged with 82 more offences, including 46 counts related to break-and-enters in Tweed, where Williams had a cottage. The other counts related to similar incidents in Ottawa's Fallingbrook neighbourhood, where Williams lived until recently.

The victim of the Sept. 30 attack now believes her assailant may have visited her house a year earlier, when an article of her clothing went missing.

She thinks police should have warned the public about the crime wave in the community.

"They were trying to solve this investigation without scaring people," she said. "They weren't getting it [the information] out. This was a serious thing - I feel that they've let a lot of people down. I feel a lot of things could have been prevented."

She isn't the only Tweed resident shocked by the latest charges and left questioning why police were so quiet about the crimes taking place.

Roseann Trudeau, advertising and circulation manager of the Tweed News, said she had no idea until Thursday that there had been so many break-ins in the community.

"This accused killer was [allegedly] in these homes - all these homes! That's just unbelievable," she said, adding that she doesn't know how police failed to connect the cases.

Trudeau said little attention was paid after the first sex assault that Williams was later charged with. Police did issue a warning after the second assault and reported some break-and-enters, but only on an individual basis.

"How come the public wasn't alerted of someone like this in the area so that we could be on the lookout?" she asked. "And then just maybe Jessica [Lloyd] would be alive today."

With files from CBC's Dave Seglins


More on Link


----------



## Journeyman

> "I'm just sick about it," the woman told CBC News on Thursday. "They kept telling me this [assault] was a one-time occurrence - this was just a sex pervert that wanted pictures and it's their experience that this person would never return."


And did he return? No. So the police were correct.



> The victim of the Sept. 30 attack *now * believes her assailant may have visited her house a year earlier, when an article of her clothing went missing.


And did she report the missing clothing to the police? No. Should the police be any more psychic than she was?



> She thinks police should have warned the public about *the crime wave * in the community.
> 
> Trudeau said little attention was paid *after the first sex assault * that Williams was later charged with. Police did issue a warning after the second assault and reported some break-and-enters, but only on an individual basis.


One assault does not make a "crime wave."

The bottom line is the 82 charges stem from the investigation _since_ his arrest. Neither the police, nor the community, had any idea about Williams' activities.


So, is this an example of:
a) police bungling -- they couldn't foresee the future;
b) citizens obstructing the police -- of all these victimized women, apparently not one reported a pair of missing underwear to the police;
c) media hype -- preying on a victim's anguish to build a story where one doesn't or barely exists;
d) a victim setting the stage for a class-action suit, based on police "negligence"?

My personal response to all four options is the same:  :


----------



## Jarnhamar

82 break and enters?
Was this guy a crazy pantie thief or something?

He should have got posted to Japan or something- they have that shit over there in vending machines. What a freak.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Journeyman said:
			
		

> The bottom line is the 82 charges stem from the investigation _since_ his arrest. Neither the police, nor the community, had any idea about Williams' activities.



Perhaps his OCD was so intense that all his trophies were tagged with date-time groups and addresses, and that's how they've put so many together so quickly.


----------



## mariomike

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> He should have got posted to Japan or something- they have that crap over there in vending machines. What a freak.



"The Love Machine":
http://www.snopes.com/risque/kinky/panties.asp

"Police found more than 4,000 pieces of lingerie in the home of a Japanese construction worker who used climbing skills developed on his job to steal women's underwear.":
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST13349120070314

Closer to home: 
"Former Mountie jailed for stealing female officers' panties":
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=558c7ca0-890d-41bd-aa72-9238364587f2&k=45


----------



## mariomike

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.
> 
> Victim slams police in Col. Williams case
> 17/04/2010 11:20:26 AM
> 
> Article Link



Comparisons have been made by the press to the Jane Doe case since February.:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/02/04/12737126-qmi.html

"Who is Jane Doe?" ( Sued Metro Police, and won. ):
http://www.walnet.org/jane_doe/news/toronto_99/chatelaine-9901.html
http://www.walnet.org/jane_doe/balcony-rapist.html


----------



## OldSolduer

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> 82 break and enters?
> Was this guy a crazy pantie thief or something?
> 
> He should have got posted to Japan or something- they have that crap over there in vending machines. What a freak.



FYI one of the indicators of a serial criminal is the collection of "souvenirs", in this case, women's underwear.


----------



## Alea

I agree... how could this man, in such high position in the CF commit all these crimes, keep a straight face and not get cought earlier? OMG!

The lingeray thing is so... only a sick person can do this! I can only put myself in these women's shoes who got home only to discover that their lingeray disapeared!  There is no other word. You just feel SCARED.

Hundreds of lingeray pieces hidden in is house??? I'm so surprised his wife never found out and wonder then again, we'll never now this.

Hummmm.... what else to say... nothing. What can you say about such a sad and scary story. It's only scary.

Alea


----------



## Alea

Journeyman said:
			
		

> And did he return? No. So the police were correct.
> And did she report the missing clothing to the police? No. Should the police be any more psychic than she was?
> One assault does not make a "crime wave."
> 
> The bottom line is the 82 charges stem from the investigation _since_ his arrest. Neither the police, nor the community, had any idea about Williams' activities.
> 
> 
> So, is this an example of:
> a) police bungling -- they couldn't foresee the future;
> b) citizens obstructing the police -- of all these victimized women, apparently not one reported a pair of missing underwear to the police;
> c) media hype -- preying on a victim's anguish to build a story where one doesn't or barely exists;
> d) a victim setting the stage for a class-action suit, based on police "negligence"?
> 
> My personal response to all four options is the same:  :



JourneyMan 

Let me tell you, as a woman, if one single piece of lingeray disapears from my drawer:
1) I'll know in a split second
2) I'll run to the police (this actually happened to me about 12 years ago. When my appartement got rubbed, I couldn't care less about the TV and jewelry... but my lingeray... to a woman this is very scary)
So I aggre with you... I don't understand why in all these women concerned, none raised the red flag!

Alea


----------



## the 48th regulator

Alea said:
			
		

> JourneyMan
> 
> Let me tell you, as a woman, if one single piece of lingeray disapears from my drawer:
> 1) I'll know in a split second
> 2) I'll run to the police (this actually happened to me about 12 years ago. When my appartement got rubbed, I couldn't care less about the TV and jewelry... but my lingeray... to a woman this is very scary)
> So I aggre with you... I don't understand why in all these women concerned, none raised the red flag!
> 
> Alea




That is a nettle in my drawers too, when people Rub my lingeray.  I find that Tucks helps, but only temporarily.

dileas

tess


----------



## Occam

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> That is a nettle in my drawers too, when people Rub my lingeray.  I find that Tucks helps, but only temporarily.



TMI!   ;D

I'm sure at least some of these women chalked up the missing lingerie to the sock monster!


----------



## Michael OLeary

Obviously, we need a national gun panties registry. That way when one turns up at a crime scene, we'll be able to track it back to the last legal owner.


----------



## Alea

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> *
> Case keeps growing against accused sex-killer Russell Williams
> *
> 
> 
> By Gary Dimmock and Linda Nguyen , Canwest News Service - April 30, 2010 7:31 AM
> 
> 
> 
> In a lengthy interview on a Sunday in February at Ottawa police headquarters, Williams allegedly directed detectives to so-called trophies at his new home at 473 Edison Ave. in Westboro, including photographic images and more than 500 pairs of women’s underwear taken in break-ins.
> 
> 
> Gary Dimmock writes for the Citizen. Linda Nguyen writes for Canwest News Service. With a file from Global News
> 
> 
> _© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen_
> 
> Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Case+keeps+growing+against+accused+killer+Russell+Williams/2966782/story.html#ixzz0maVviQtc



More than 500 pairs of women's underwear in 82 break-ins.... that is a lot of underwear to still per drawer!

Alea


----------



## Michael OLeary

Alea said:
			
		

> More than 500 pairs of women's underwear in 82 break-ins.... that is a lot of underwear to still per drawer!
> 
> Alea



That's 82 break and enter charges that have been laid so far - there could be more that have not been linked to charges yet.


----------



## Alea

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> That's 82 break and enter charges that have been laid so far - there could be more that have not been linked to charges yet.



Am I the only one doubting that this man only took 1 woman's underwear/house?
I still remain pretty surprised that no woman came up with this to the police.

Mr. O'Leary you're right. It is 82 break and enter so far... hopefully the police won't find any more in this case that is heavy enough as it is.

Alea


----------



## Michael OLeary

Alea said:
			
		

> Am I the only one doubting that this man only took 1 woman's underwear/house?



No, you're the only one finding it worth getting worked up over in this thread.


----------



## Jarnhamar

82 break ins without getting caught. He must have had ninja training to go along with his creepy fetish.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Obviously, we need a national gun panties registry. That way when one turns up at a crime scene, we'll be able to track it back to the last legal owner.



Albeit, that might seem like a good idea, by and large (emphasis on large) it would be a grim task.  However, the Lieberals could sink billions into it!  It would be flawless!! 

I wonder if by pleading guilty to the whole thing the Crown is going to forego considering dangerous offender application?  I would hope that isn't the case.  It is also possible that since Williams makes decent money and has assets, he will have to pay his legal fees out of pocket.  If there is a remote shred of decency left in him (if there ever was) he'll plead to the whole thing, take the dangerous offender status, disappear forever and save his family the money and anguish.


----------



## ballz

Dangerous offender status? Is there a remote chance he'll live long enough to get out? 

Wouldn't the two charges of 2nd degree murder alone mean a minimum 20 years before he's eligible for parole? And then the sexual assault charge(s), confinement, burglaries...

He's already 47... I've never understood what happens with multiple sentences. He can't serve all those things at once can he? Especially not the two life sentences?

Oh boy... I'm going to go read, I guess I'll get back to you all if these haven't been answered.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

You are talking about the difference of "concurrent" and "consecutive" sentencing.  I do not have a memory of any time during my career when I heard of anyone getting sentenced "consecutively".  Generally, everything is lumped together and is concurrent.  So where 82 residential break ins _should_ mean a life sentence (the max for a residential break in _is_ actually a life sentence, btw) it would probably all be one sentence.  Without a dangerous offender status, look to see Williams moving into a neighborhood near you in about 25 years.  

Because, to sentence him consectutively would be against his rights.


----------



## Infanteer

Could they try him 82 separate times to get something like a 200 year sentence?


----------



## a_majoor

The pile on of charges seems a bit excessive, since it is highly improbable that anyone could do that many break-ins without getting caught or leaving a clue. I suspect that _some_ of these cases don't have anything to do with him, and the Police are just thankful they can clear files and close cases.

Like a previous poster said; the guy would have had to be a Ninja to get away with so many crimes.


----------



## SeanNewman

Thucydides said:
			
		

> ...since it is highly improbable that anyone could do that many break-ins without getting caught or leaving a clue...



I would grant you that it would be rare, but ask yourself if it were to happen, who would it have to be?  Someone the neighbours trusted and was likely extremely intelligent.

Also. I think the Police deserve more credit than you're giving them.  They don't just blanket charge people on a whim without having a relatively high likelihood that they have a case for a conviction.


----------



## MPIKE

Thucydides said:
			
		

> The pile on of charges seems a bit excessive, since it is highly improbable that anyone could do that many break-ins without getting caught or leaving a clue. I suspect that _some_ of these cases don't have anything to do with him, and the Police are just thankful they can clear files and close cases.
> 
> Like a previous poster said; the guy would have had to be a Ninja to get away with so many crimes.



Hey Thuc,  yeah man! I totally agree that is what lazy cops do to clear their reports. I mean it must be a way for those investigators to make more overtime to justify their existence.  I mean how busy can a Tweed area detachment be?..... :stop: 

Before making a generalization and posting to the world the ignorance of your statement, read up on serial crime and review a thing called VICLAS  http://sascwr.org/resources/pdfs/Legal/ViCLAS%20is%20the%20Violent%20Crime%20Linkage%20Analysis%20System.pdf



I'm pretty sure that investigator's would like to present the best case put forward to crown as possible to ensure the system carries through with dealing with individual appropriately.  82 cases could also suggest laying the framework for a dangerous offender status.  Bottom line free speech away but do it educated..

edit: correct link http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/tops-opst/viclas-salvac-eng.htm


----------



## mariomike

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Perhaps his OCD was so intense that all his trophies were tagged with date-time groups and addresses, and that's how they've put so many together so quickly.



The Globe and Mail reported, "In the searches of his Ottawa home, police discovered stolen lingerie that was neatly stored, catalogued, and concealed."

They also report, "The automatic penalty for multiple first-degree murder convictions is life imprisonment with no chance of parole for at least 25 years."


----------



## krustyrl

Ohhh.... how very anal in his hobby.!!!!!       >      :rage:


----------



## Retired AF Guy

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Could they try him 82 separate times



Waste of time as it would just tie-up the courts. 



> to get something like a 200 year sentence?



As Zipperhead mentioned, in Canada you serve your sentences concurrentingly. The maxium sentence is "life" which is 25 years, unless you get labelled as a dangerous offender where you can be held indiffently. On the other hand you could be considered mentally incompetent and placed in a mental facility for the rest of your life. However, its unlikely that Williams would be considered mentally incompetent.


----------



## OldSolduer

The disclosure that he had souvenirs from his break in spree is not unusual. Its common among serial offenders that they collect such souvenirs to relive the moments. You just have to read a few books written by John Douglas or Robert Ressler to acquire that knowledge.
He is what the profilers call an "organized" offender. He left few clues, but got careless, or perhaps thought he could outsmart the authorities. Ted Bundy was caught, and so were a few others. John Wayne Gacy kept his "souvenirs" in the crawlspace of his house. 
Charles Ng (caught in Calgary shoplifting by a mall security dude) had a partner who kidnapped and tortured their victims prior to killing them.
What do all the neighbours say when a serial killer is caught? "He seemed to be a very nice (quiet, resepctful) guy, but a bit odd".


----------



## Retired AF Guy

PIKER said:
			
		

> Hey Thuc,  yeah man! I totally agree that is what lazy cops do to clear their reports. I mean it must be a way for those investigators to make more overtime to justify their existence.  I mean how busy can a Tweed area detachment be?..... :stop:
> 
> Before making a generalization and posting to the world the ignorance of your statement, read up on serial crime and review a thing called VICLAS  http://sascwr.org/resources/pdfs/Legal/ViCLAS%20is%20the%20Violent%20Crime%20Linkage%20Analysis%20System.pdf



According to the link you provided, ViCLAS is a "_system designed to capture, collate and compare crimes of violence_." (My emphasis). In other words it wouldn't be used to track break and entry cases like the ones Williams is accused of. And yes, sometimes cops take the easy route. If you have been paying attention to the news you know that a major drug case in northern Ontario is in jeopardy because a senior RCMP officer faked a memo. However, in this case the fact that the Williams kept his "souveniors" is probably what the police are basing their case on.


----------



## OldSolduer

And if I read the previous posts correctly, he catalogued his souvenirs with Date/Time groups, locations etc.
I would like to be the proverbial "fly on the wall" during some O gps with various police agencies!!


----------



## mariomike

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> The disclosure that he had souvenirs from his break in spree is not unusual. Its common among serial offenders that they collect such souvenirs to relive the moments. You just have to read a few books written by John Douglas or Robert Ressler to acquire that knowledge.



Here is one such example.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Glatman

Note that they executed him in the gas chamber within one year of his arrest!

"Signature Killers" by Dr. Robert Keppel:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/glatman/4b.html

Glatman:
"He willingly confessed to the other three murders and eventually led the police to a toolbox containing pictures of the victims which he had taken."

Mr. Williams:
Christie Blatchford reported, "Sources say that he photographed the murders and sexual attacks. His computer, once examined by forensic specialists, is expected to yield what one source called "a treasure trove" of evidence."


----------



## Retired AF Guy

Mid Aged Silverback said:
			
		

> And if I read the previous posts correctly, he catalogued his souvenirs with Date/Time groups, locations etc.
> I would like to be the proverbial "fly on the wall" during some O gps with various police agencies!!



Nothing makes a cops job easier then a bad guy who keeps notes on his crimes! But, this begs the question: Where did he keep his souvdenirs and how did he hide them from his wife? Inquiring minds would like to know.


----------



## ballz

mariomike said:
			
		

> They also report, "The automatic penalty for multiple first-degree murder convictions is life imprisonment with no chance of parole for at least 25 years."



I just read up on it a bit (I had previously thought he was being charged with 2nd degree), and it seems to me Canada has the most back-asswards law in the world for this.

First 2nd degree murder is Life, 10-25 before you're eligible for parole, and your second 2nd degree murder is an automatic Life without the change of parole for 25 years. So at least you get more for committing 2, or 

For 1st degree murder, it appears to make no difference.... 1, 2, 5, 10... your guaranteed Life with no parole for 25 years. No way to even change it to 30, 40 years, etc, without the dangerous offender status. Since, as Zipperhead has explained to me, the sentences always seem to be served concurrently... After 1 murder, more murders, the sexual assaults, break-ins, confinement, etc, etc, don't mean diddly squat to his sentence unless it can be used to apply the dangerous offender status....

So, like Zipperhead was saying... I sure hope they haven't bargained with him to not get the dangerous offender status or something. That would be sickening.


----------



## mariomike

The Globe and Mail went on to say:
" (With a single conviction, the inmate can seek to make a parole application at the 15-year mark, under the so-called faint hope clause.) In this instance, however, sources familiar with the case say Col. Williams’s motivation to expedite matters is threefold: The evidence is overwhelming; he wants to minimize the anguish of his wife, Mary Elizabeth Harriman; and he sees little point in accumulating large legal bills."

Re: Dangerous Offender / Canada:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_offender#Canada


----------



## Sparkplugs

mariomike said:
			
		

> ..... and he sees little point in accumulating large legal bills....



Guess he's trying to save money for when he gets to pay back the buttloads of Col. pay?   :nod:


----------



## ballz

I read about the faint hope clause but I don't think he'd have a shot in the dark at it, considering some of the things they consider.

Wiki tells me that the abolishing of the faint hope clause had passed in the House and was waiting to be approved by the Senate when parliament was prorogued... So there's a chance it won't exist when the Colonol's 15 year mark comes around, if we're lucky anyway.

Check the "Current Status" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faint_hope_clause#cite_note-1


----------



## kratz

All speculation in mind, even if the government passes the loss of the "faint hope clause", the government would have legal issues if they attempted to make it retroactive.
So, if he pleads guilty now and is convicted before any government legislation, he'd still be about 72 years old when he gets outt.


----------



## Retired AF Guy

mariomike said:
			
		

> I read that inmates who work get about $7.00 a day:
> http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/todays-paper/Dock+prison+wages+victims+report/2741986/story.html



That depends on whether the institution he's at has a work program and whether he would qualify for the program (usually an inmate has to have been at an institution for sometime and be considered a non-risk to be considered eligable). Even then, the starting wage for inmates is about a $1.60 a day.


----------



## mariomike

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> That depends on whether the institution he's at has a work program and whether he would qualify for the program (usually an inmate has to have been at an institution for sometime and be considered a non-risk to be considered eligable). Even then, the starting wage for inmates is about a $1.60 a day.



As we know, even if they do not find suitable paid employment for him in custody, Mr. Williams will be receiving a pension. But, won't be able to enjoy it for a long time, if ever.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

As much as I deride the Canadian justice system most have it wrong [as far as I have been taught]......at least in Canada 'life' can actually mean life, although with the * [caution, personal opinion rant] * pathetic parole board system we have who's job it is to save the Govt. money, letting everyone and their dogs out early, life very seldom means life......but it can.
That's why we don't see the 400 year sentences like in the US.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Didn't check the link, but just as an FYI, ViCLAS can track weird sexual stuff too.  Panty thiefs would certainly be logged in it.  



			
				Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> On the other hand you could be considered mentally incompetent and placed in a mental facility for the rest of your life. However, its unlikely that Williams would be considered mentally incompetent.



It was my guess that is what he was angling for with the BS suicide bids.  However, despondant in his situation and criminally not responsible are two different things.  Someone probably took the time to explain that to him and that is why he has stopped acting like a donkey.  Or he really does want to kill himself and knows that won't be allowed to happen until he is serving his sentence.  

Question for those of you who know the CF pension/benefit system; if Williams kills himself after he is convicted would his pension go to his widow?  



			
				ballz said:
			
		

> I read about the faint hope clause but I don't think he'd have a shot in the dark at it, considering some of the things they consider.



The "Faint" hope clause gets about 80% of murderers out early.  Not terribly faint  :  That's why there is a motion to get rid of it.


----------



## the 48th regulator

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> The "Faint" hope clause gets about 80% of murderers out early.  Not terribly faint  :  That's why there is a motion to get rid of it.



http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/infocntr/factsh/parole_stats-eng.shtml#15

15. Number of offenders who have had a judicial review (Section 745 Criminal Code – also known as the Faint Hope Clause)
As of October 18, 2009, 1,023 offenders were deemed eligible to apply for a judicial review. Of those eligible, there were 174 court decisions of which 144 became eligible for earlier parole. Of these, 85 were granted parole. 

Source: NPB Statistics  

Uhm,

Where did you get your stats?  It is 8% of the total of people, ever to be eligible, that have been released.  Whether the Clause should be around, or not, let's give accurate results, and not anecdotes.

dileas

tess


----------



## zipperhead_cop

I'll deffer to Bruce for that one, or stand corrected.  It is my impression that the Faint Hope clause was a system not working.


----------



## Retired AF Guy

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I'll deffer to Bruce for that one, or stand corrected.  It is my impression that the Faint Hope clause was a system not working.



Nope, still there. This  article  from 20 April states that the Tories will re-introduce legislation to repeal the clause.


----------



## krustyrl

Does anyone know when this circus of a trial is going to start.?  This guy just makes my toenails curl, now.!!


----------



## mariomike

krustyrl said:
			
		

> Does anyone know when this circus of a trial is going to start.?  This guy just makes my toenails curl, now.!!



"Accused killer colonel ready to plead guilty":
 http://cancrime.com/2010/04/accused-killer-colonel-ready-to-plead.html


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

*As of October 18, 2009, 1,023 offenders were deemed eligible to apply for a judicial review. Of those eligible, there were 174 court decisions of which 144 became eligible for earlier parole. Of these, 85 were granted parole. *

Tess, this is more Parole Board crap as I read it...........over 800 didn't even bother to apply as they would rather wait a bit longer  for mandatory release and have either no strings attached or at worst, very few. [or just like the nice easy life in jail]

So now we have 85 out of 174 released........unless I too am mistaken.


Either way the real shitty part of the 'faint hope' clause is it makes victims families start attending these hearings years sooner to start listening to a total jerk off spout on about how he/she deserves another chance.


----------



## ballz

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> *As of October 18, 2009, 1,023 offenders were deemed eligible to apply for a judicial review. Of those eligible, there were 174 court decisions of which 144 became eligible for earlier parole. Of these, 85 were granted parole. *
> 
> Tess, this is more Parole Board crap as I read it...........over 800 didn't even bother to apply as they would rather wait a bit longer  for mandatory release and have either no strings attached or at worst, very few. [or just like the nice easy life in jail]
> 
> So now we have 85 out of 174 released........unless I too am mistaken.



They have to apply to apply. I *think* the 1023 "deemed eligible" must have passed the first application (to the Chief Justice of the province), and then failed at the parole board. They were deemed eligible (by the Chief Justice) to go face the parole board, or that is how I am reading it anyway.

"The prisoner must apply to the Chief Justice of the province where they were convicted, and the Chief Justice (or another designated judge) then reviews the application to determine whether there is a reasonable chance the prisoner could be successful in his or her application before a jury; if the applicant is likely to succeed, the court will empanel a jury to hear the application." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faint_hope_clause

How many actually put in the first application to the Chief Justice of the Province would an answer to another question we'd have to ask before we could get the real percentages, but it would make it small.er



			
				Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Either way the real shitty part of the 'faint hope' clause is it makes victims families start attending these hearings years sooner to start listening to a total jerk off spout on about how he/she deserves another chance.



No kidding. After reading about the clause I've become to think it's pretty stupid. I mean, max sentence of life, parole after 25 years, is basically a 25 year sentence as it is. If the faint-hope clause works for them, you've cut a murderer's sentence by 40%, which is ridiculous.... and if a murderer deserves that 40% reduction... who doesn't? Very few.


----------



## Ammo

The latest news from The Toronto Star

Accused colonel kept tabs on police probe

OTTAWA—Word of Cpl. Marie France Comeau’s murder arrived in her alleged killer’s inbox at 12:13 a.m. on Nov. 26, 2009. The message was marked “significant occurrence” and kicked off a stream of messages that would keep Col. Russ Williams, her commander at Canadian Forces Base Trenton, abreast of the unfolding police probe, one that would lead months later to his stunning arrest...

The most chilling of the documents released is perhaps Williams’ letter of condolence to the Comeau family, offering help during this “very difficult time.’’... Williams drafted a note of condolence on his official letterhead to the Comeau family. “Please let me know whether there is anything I can do to help you during this very difficult time. You and your family are in our thoughts and prayers,” he wrote, signing the letter with his swirling signature. Despite his offer of support, Williams did not attend Comeau’s funeral at the National Military Cemetery in Ottawa on Dec. 4, 2009, though he did offer his good wishes to the deputy commander of Comeau’s squadron later that day. Comeau had served as a VIP flight attendant for 437 Transport Squadron. “I’m pleased to hear that the service went as well as could be expected, given the very sad circumstances,” he wrote.

More here: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/805300--accused-colonel-kept-tabs-on-police-probe?bn=1


----------



## kratz

from CBC.ca




> Woman sues Col. Williams
> Last Updated: Monday, May 10, 2010 | 4:33 PM ET .
> 
> 
> An eastern Ontario woman is suing Col. Russell Williams, the former base commander now charged with killing two women, for an alleged sexual attack.
> 
> The 21-year-old plaintiff, identified only as Jane Doe, claims she has been suicidal and dealing with drug and alcohol dependencies since being attacked in her home on Sept. 17, 2009.
> 
> She says in the suit she was terrified Williams would kill her or her infant daughter when Williams allegedly broke into her home in the Tweed, Ont., area and tied her up, blindfolded her, forced into sexual acts and photographed her over two hours.
> 
> The $2.45-million lawsuit also alleges Williams' wife was involved in the fraudulent transfer of Ottawa real estate in a effort to defeat Jane Doe's claim against Williams.
> 
> The suit alleges the real estate transaction took place on March 26 — some six weeks after Williams, former commander of CFB Trenton, was criminally charged in two sex assaults and the killings of two other women.
> 
> The allegations have not been proven in court and it is not clear if a statement of defence has been filed.
> Williams also faces an additional 82 break-and-enter charges.


----------



## dapaterson

Numerous sources are reporting on the first public pronouncements by Col Williams' wife:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/court-documents-provide-first-glimpse-of-col-williams-wifes-devastation/article1596789/



> An affidavit filed in a lawsuit in court in Belleville, Ont., provides the first glimpse of how the charges that have rocked the Canadian military have traumatized the colonel's own wife.
> 
> “The revelation of these charges has been devastating to me,” Ms. Harriman says.
> 
> “As a result of the charges, my previously anticipated future and financial security had (sic) become jeopardized.”
> 
> ...
> 
> One of Col. Williams' alleged sex assault victims, identified only as Jane Doe, has launched a $2.45-million lawsuit against Col. Williams and Ms. Harriman. The 21-year-old woman claims the “horrific and reprehensible” alleged sexual attack has left her fearful and suicidal.
> 
> Doe is also suing Ms. Harriman, claiming Col. Williams fraudulently transferred an Ottawa property to his wife in an effort to defeat Jane Doe's claim.
> 
> The criminal charges have not yet been tested in court nor have the civil allegations.
> 
> Col. Williams has not yet filed a statement of defence.
> 
> In the suit, the woman alleges Col. Williams secretly transferred a property in Ottawa, the city in which he shared a home with his wife, in “unusual haste” and under “suspicious circumstances” on March 26.
> 
> The woman believes that Col. Williams and Ms. Harriman “will remove assets from the jurisdiction or otherwise dispose of or dissipate them in an effort to defeat the plaintiff in any attempt to recover upon the judgment, if the plaintiff is ultimately successful,” the suit reads.
> 
> In her statement of defence Ms. Harriman says Col. Williams did transfer his interest in their home and other assets, but it was a “domestic contract” they executed and there was “nothing untoward or suspicious about the transfer.”
> 
> “At all times my intent in executing the conveyance was to provide for my financial security as against my husband,” Ms. Harriman writes.
> 
> Because personal financial details are expected to arise in the course of the lawsuit, Ms. Harriman's lawyer Mary Jane Binks, has signalled that she will be seeking a sealing order on details that haven't yet come up in court.
> 
> “My reputation in the community is exemplary,” says Ms. Harriman, an associate executive director of the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada.
> 
> “The publication of further particular details of my professional life, personal financial situation and legal affairs could have a significant negative impact upon me personally and professionally.”


----------



## kratz

...and the wheels of the system grind slowly onward.

Today's decision is the 6th time the court date has been shifted to a later date. Highlite text is mine.

from CTV.ca



> Pre-trial date set for colonel accused of two murders
> The Canadian Press
> Date: Thursday Jul. 22, 2010 12:24 PM ET
> 
> BELLEVILLE, Ont. — There appeared to be some movement Thursday in the case of a former Canadian Forces commander facing murder and sexual assault charges.
> 
> After months of brief video appearances by Col. Russell Williams, during which a date for another brief video appearance would be made, a date for a pre-trial hearing was set Thursday.
> 
> Williams appeared via videolink Thursday from a detention centre and stated his full name -- David Russell Williams -- for the record. He was ordered to appear again via video on *Aug. 26 at 1:15 p.m.*  for a pre-trial hearing.
> 
> Crown attorney Lee Burgess would not elaborate outside court on what that hearing will entail, but in general such hearings are held so that a judge can weigh the evidence against the accused and decide whether a trial is warranted.
> 
> Williams is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of two women, sex assaults against other women, and 82 other charges related to break and enter. The list of his charges took up about one-third of the entire courtroom docket.
> 
> Williams was a rising star in the military before being charged with murder in the deaths of Jessica Lloyd, 27, and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37. Lloyd's brother attended the hearing Thursday and said he intends to be back for future dates.
> 
> "I think it's something I personally, for myself, have to do," Andy Lloyd, 30, said outside court.
> 
> Jessica Lloyd's body was found in Tweed, Ont., on Feb. 8, two weeks after she failed to show up at her job in nearby Napanee.
> 
> When asked if he will get closure by seeing the court case through her brother replied, "What's closure, really?"
> 
> "Hopefully everything works out for the best as far as the justice system, but I don't know really if that's going to be closure or not," he said.
> 
> Comeau was found dead in her home in Brighton, Ont., last November. She was a flight attendant at CFB Trenton and served aboard the same military VIP flights Williams piloted for much of the 1990s, ferrying the Governor General, the prime minister and other dignitaries on domestic and overseas trips.
> 
> In addition, Williams and his wife, Mary-Elizabeth Harriman, are facing a $2.45-million lawsuit filed by one of Williams' alleged sex assault victims, identified only as Jane Doe. The 21-year-old woman claims the "horrific and reprehensible" alleged sexual attack has left her fearful and suicidal.
> 
> Harriman, who has not spoken publicly since the charges were laid against her husband, says in an affidavit filed with her statement of defence that she is devastated.
> 
> The criminal charges have not yet been tested in court nor have the civil allegations.
> 
> Williams has not yet filed a statement of defence.


----------



## 40below

kratz said:
			
		

> ...and the wheels of the system grind slowly onward.
> 
> Today's decision is the 6th time the court date has been shifted to a later date. Highlite text is mine.
> 
> from CTV.ca




Welcome to the long, cold world of pre-trial detention. The Crown is obligated to put him (and everyone else being held before trial) in front of a judge on a regular basis to publicly review and reconfirm his detention. These remands will go on for many more months unless he pleads out and professionally, I will be very, very surprised if the Crown is ready to go to pretrial in August. That's the blink of an eye in Ontario's court system and I've seen many more minor charges take far longer to get to that point.


----------



## kratz

Pick your media coverage today:
- CBC.ca,
- CTV.ca,
- Ottawa Citizen, and
- The Star

He appeared in court for the ninth time this afternoon via CCTV. He has waived a preliminary hearing and his trial is set to begin 7 Oct.

The comments section for CBC is actually open on today's news report.

*edit* Within 30 mintues one inappropriate comment was posted and the comments section has now been closed.


----------



## Occam

On the CBC's "Fifth Estate" tonight (24 September):

_Above Suspicion 
The shocking case of Colonel Russell Williams. This unbelievable story has captured the country's attention, leaving people to wonder: What really happened? Who is the man behind the headlines? _


----------



## The Bread Guy

Meanwhile, in the civil litigation arena, via Canadian Press.....


> A Canadian Forces colonel whose murder and sex assault charges shook the military to its core plans to defend against a civil suit filed against him and his wife.  A lawyer for Col. Russell Williams — former commander of CFB Trenton — has filed a notice of intent to defend in the civil case.  Williams is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of two women, sex assaults against others, and 82 other charges related to break and enter.  One of Williams' alleged sex assault victims, identified only as Jane Doe, has launched a $2.45-million lawsuit against Williams and his wife, Mary-Elizabeth Harriman.  In the suit, Doe claims Williams fraudulently transferred an Ottawa property to his wife in an effort to defeat her claim.  She also claims the "horrific and reprehensible'' alleged sexual attack has left her fearful and suicidal .... *The criminal charges have not yet been tested in court, nor have the allegations in the civil suit* ....


----------



## zipperhead_cop

You have to file an intent to defend, otherwise the lawsuit sails through and the person gets everything they ask for.  I would be blown away if it actually ever sees a trial though.  This stuff is certainly something to settle out of court.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Note to AP headline writer - this guy is NOT Canada's "top commander", he's a senior officer  :


> Canada top commander to appear in court
> 
> By ROB GILLIES (AP) – 3 hours ago
> 
> TORONTO — A military commander charged with several counts of murder and sexual assault in a case that shocked Canadians was to appear in court in person for the first time Thursday.
> 
> Col. Russell Williams — an elite pilot who once flew Queen Elizabeth II and other dignitaries around the country — was the commander of Canada's largest Air Force base until he was charged earlier this year with the murder of two women, the sexual assault of two others and 82 break-ins, during which he stole women's panties. He has previously taken part in court hearings by video link from a detention center ....


More here or in attached if link doesn't work.


----------



## Gunner98

In fact he is a former Base Commander since he has been officially replaced without a chance to march off the parade square one last time (so far anyways).


----------



## krustyrl

Myself, being formerly a mamber of 8Wing during the time of the criminal activity, I am watching intently.  It just curls my toenails that he is still listed as Colonel.... embarrased thru association.   This is just my opinion.


----------



## The Bread Guy

This, according to the Canadian Press:


> The lawyer for former top military officer Col. Russell Williams says his client intends to plead guilty to charges of first-degree murder, sexual assault, and break and enter.
> 
> His lawyer is telling a Belleville, Ont., courtroom today that Williams will plead guilty at his next court appearance on Oct. 18 ....


We'll see...


----------



## zipperhead_cop

It stuns me that nowhere in any of the news I've read about the guilty plea is there any talk about him being saddled with a Dangerous Offender status.  If this clown is ever allowed out into society again, he will surely rape and kill again.


----------



## The Bread Guy

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> It stuns me that nowhere in any of the news I've read about the guilty plea is there any talk about him being saddled with a Dangerous Offender status.  If this clown is ever allowed out into society again, he will surely rape and kill again.


I'm guessing this'll come up during the sentencing coverage/discussion/debate.


----------



## Occam

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> It stuns me that nowhere in any of the news I've read about the guilty plea is there any talk about him being saddled with a Dangerous Offender status.  If this clown is ever allowed out into society again, he will surely rape and kill again.



I forget which news source I was watching, but I seem to recall them saying that the reason the plea wasn't entered yesterday was that negotiation was ongoing as to the details of his incarceration, given he'll "be spending the rest of his life in jail", as the commentator put it.  Is it possible that they're negotiating the location where he'll be imprisoned, perhaps knowing that DO status is a given?  Is there a difference between prisons?


----------



## GAP

I wonder if this case, among others, is what is prompting the government to bring in legislation to extend the life sentence to 35 years for people convicted of multiple violent offenses....


----------



## Jarnhamar

I think it's great our taxes will go towards paying him to sit in prison for a life sentence.


----------



## OldSolduer

Here's something I found in the Winnipeg Free Press. It seems Col (ret'd) Drapeau thinks we should all take criminal profiling classes:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/horrendous-week-puts-forces-hiring-under-scrutiny-104555844.html


----------



## ModlrMike

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Here's something I found in the Winnipeg Free Press. It seems Col (ret'd) Drapeau thinks we should all take criminal profiling classes:
> 
> http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/horrendous-week-puts-forces-hiring-under-scrutiny-104555844.html



Here's the most reassuring part:



> "The suggestion that any organization could identify a clever psychopath using any type of routine interview or assessments is just not plausible," Okros argued.


----------



## Journeyman

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> It seems Col (ret'd) Drapeau thinks we should all take criminal profiling classes


But at least the article does point out that Scott Taylor's lapdog Drapeau doesn't have a clue what he's talking about:

"The suggestion that any organization could identify a clever psychopath using any type of routine interview or assessments is just not plausible."


----------



## ModlrMike

Respectfully, I'll agree he's right on the VAC issue, he's wrong on the criminal profiling issue, and he's wrong on the Capt Semrau issue.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

"psychological testing"?................frig, even my slowest inmates dance all around that crap.

Drapeau, please stick to subjects you actually know something a,   "what?".....well yes, I guess this would be considered media whore-mongering,...OK Michel, never mind then.


----------



## Retired AF Guy

Occam said:
			
		

> Is there a difference between prisons?



Yes, there is and its just not the difference between minimum, medium or maximum. Joyceville and Bath institutions are both medium, but both of them are completely different. The same for Kingston Pen and Millhaven.  For example, in Bath the inmates are not locked-up during the day,while in Joyceville they are. The prisons also have different functions. Besides the obvious.  ;D


----------



## 57Chevy

In an article posted by the Global Mail on Friday, Apr. 09, 2010, it was reported that Colonel Russell Williams was "intending to thwart the justice system by starving himself to death in his Napanee jail cell, prosecutors believe." It was also reported that "there’s a lot that he doesn’t want to come out at trial or through a guilty plea,” a source close to the investigation said. “This would be his way of trying to make sure of that.”

"It has been reported that Williams would bring a camera on a tripod and in some cases, filmed himself raping and possibly even killing his victims."
Colonel Russell Williams article link

"If the hidden history of Russell Williams, which has sent the Canadian military into bewilderment, and the implications involving sexual assault, murder, rape and filming his victims turns out to be true, this is a huge unprecedented total breakdown of military security protocol in the Canadian Air Force."
                   (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


----------



## PMedMoe

57Chevy said:
			
		

> "If the hidden history of Russell Williams, which has sent the Canadian military into bewilderment, and the implications involving sexual assault, murder, rape and filming his victims turns out to be true, *this is a huge unprecedented total breakdown of military security protocol in the Canadian Air Force*."



Say what??

Here's the whole paragraph:



> *Camp Mirage is Canada's forward operating base for the movement of Canadian forces and also coordinates the movement of forces and logistics in to Iraq* where Canadian and other military personnel from the United States and Britain are being murdered. If the hidden history of Russell Williams, which has sent the Canadian military into bewilderment, and the implications involving sexual assault, murder, rape and filming his victims turns out to be true, this is a huge unprecedented total breakdown of military security protocol in the Canadian Air Force. This reflects a systemic breakdown in security when the fact military personal are being shipped back in body bags and coffins from Iraq and Afghanistan the Canadians taking a huge brunt of the deaths in Afghanistan.



 :

Now, I'm trying to figure out the connection between the case against Williams and Camp Mirage.  Color me stumped.   ???


----------



## PuckChaser

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> I think it's great our taxes will go towards paying him to sit in prison for a life sentence.



I'd be comfortable with that as long as the first part of his life sentence was 2 years less a day in CF Detention Barracks Edmonton before he was kicked out and sent to Kingston Pen.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Why?  Why make the CF responsible for one more day than they already have  to the care and feeding of this guy?


----------



## PuckChaser

Is his rank not reduced to that of Private during the stay? We can finally stop hearing "Top Officer" as he'll only be Pte(Ret'd) Russell Williams.


----------



## armyvern

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Is his rank not reduced to that of Private during the stay? We can finally stop hearing "Top Officer" as he'll only be Pte(Ret'd) Russell Williams.



Once the matters at hand are dealt with in their current cvilian jurisdictional court, the CF will act accordingly based upon the outcome of those criminal matters. As far as I am aware, there is no Williams matter before the Military Justice system.

Although, you know and I know that he is no longer (working as) a "Top Officer" - he is entitled to his day in court, is innocent until proven guilty (or pleads guilty & is sentenced) and will wear the rank (if not do the job) until such time. Like it or not, that is part of living in a democracy.

Oh, and even if he were ever reduced in rank to Pte, the headlines would still read "Former Top Officer". And, they wouldn't be lying. Distasteful as it is, such is the way of selling media.


----------



## Occam

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I'd be comfortable with that as long as the first part of his life sentence was 2 years less a day in CF Detention Barracks Edmonton before he was kicked out and sent to Kingston Pen.



As ArmyVern pointed out, there are no military disciplinary actions pending against him; even if there were, officers cannot be sentenced to detention.


----------



## George Wallace

Occam said:
			
		

> ............, officers cannot be sentenced to detention.



WRONG.  Officers have served time in Detention Barracks.


----------



## Occam

George Wallace said:
			
		

> WRONG.  Officers have served time in Detention Barracks.



Sorry, I was reading from http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/publications/defence/CSDME-CDMMOI-eng.pdf and didn't read far enough.  What's the difference between imprisonment and detention, as it says that officers cannot be sentenced to detention (but I assume they can be sentenced to imprisonment)?


----------



## ModlrMike

I think detention usually means less than 14 days in local custody, and must be released as soon as reasonable. I speak more in terms of pre-trial custody, rather than post trial.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I'm guessing this'll come up during the sentencing coverage/discussion/debate.



Hard to say.  Going for the DO status is something you have to set out at the beginning and let the defence know you are seeking.  Those almost always make a splash and make for info-tainment, since once you bring it up you get to throw Bernardo (his college chum) and all the rest.  

I also don't understand why so many of the charges have been binned.  All those residential break in's.  They all carry potential life sentences too.  It _feels_ like they are going light on him, and I don't get why.  I hope I'm wrong.  

And on the Army side, could they strip his Commission?  Or is 2Lt the lowest he'll get knocked down to?


----------



## Oh No a Canadian

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> I think it's great our taxes will go towards paying him to sit in prison for a life sentence.


Our taxes are going towards punishing him and keeping the public safe from him.


----------



## Retired AF Guy

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I also don't understand why so many of the charges have been binned.  All those residential break in's.  They all carry potential life sentences too.  It _feels_ like they are going light on him, and I don't get why.  I hope I'm wrong.



Life sentence for B & E?? Its possible that they are only going after the big ones (murder and sexual assault) and are dismissing the minor ones to save time. Also, remember that it doesn't matter how many crimes he is convicted of, they are all served concurrently.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> Life sentence for B & E??



From The Code:



> 348. (1) Every one who
> (a) breaks and enters a place with intent to commit an indictable offence therein,
> (b) breaks and enters a place and commits an indictable offence therein, or
> (c) breaks out of a place after
> (i) committing an indictable offence therein, or
> 
> (ii) entering the place with intent to commit an indictable offence therein,
> 
> is guilty
> (d) if the offence is committed in relation to a dwelling-house, of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life,



Once upon a time, somebody thought that a home was a sacred place and shouldn't be violated by criminals.  These days?  Not so much...


----------



## Retired AF Guy

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> From The Code:
> 
> Once upon a time, somebody thought that a home was a sacred place and shouldn't be violated by criminals.  These days?  Not so much...



Learn something new everyday.


----------



## old medic

I'll just put in the headline, link and the first few lines.  
This one isn't worth posting, as QMI is only now printing a story everyone else
printed back in April.  (example : http://news.therecord.com/article/696452 ) 



Col. Williams won't lose his air force pension
By JOE WARMINGTON, QMI Agency
Last Updated: October 14, 2010 7:48pm

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/10/14/15696451.html


> TORONTO - There won’t be any pensions for brutally slain Cpl. Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd but the man who confessed to their murders will remain eligible for his fat retirement benefits even after pleading guilty.........


continues at link.


----------



## old medic

Judge sets rules for media in Col. Williams case
CTV.ca News Staff
14 October 2010
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101014/williams-court-101014/



> Col. Russell Williams appeared in a Belleville, Ont. courtroom Thursday morning, where a judge decided to allow journalists to use their electronic devices to live report from inside the courtroom.
> 
> The former base commander faces two counts of first-degree murder, two counts of sexual assault and forcible confinement and charges related to 82 break-ins.
> 
> Williams' next court appearance is scheduled for Oct. 18, where his lawyer has said he plans to plead guilty to murder charges relating to the deaths of 38-year-old Cpl. Marie-France Comeau and 27-year-old Jessica Lloyd, as well as the sex assault and break-in charges.
> 
> Judge Robert Scott said accredited journalists will be able to bring phones, BlackBerries and laptops into court for reporting purposes at the hearing.
> 
> Under the new ruling, the general public will not be allowed to use electronic devices at the court hearings, which will include an agreed statement of facts, and victim impact statements.
> 
> Lawyers representing media agencies were in court Thursday to argue against a previous ban on all electronic devices.
> 
> During one of Williams' recent court appearances reporters were asked to turn off their cellphones by court security. Some were told they could be barred from the courtroom if they failed to comply, and others were told laptops would not be permitted.
> 
> There are also questions around what journalists will be allowed to report, and what will be kept secret to protect the victims.
> 
> The Crown has renewed a publication ban on the name of one of the sexual assault victims, but another has waived the right to have her name withheld.
> 
> Williams, who joined the Canadian Forces in 1987, is alleged to have led a double life while running the CFB-Trenton airbase in Ontario.
> 
> Prior to that, Williams was a decorated pilot who flew Prime Minister Stephen Harper and other dignitaries on official trips.


----------



## GAP

Col. Williams won't lose his air force pension
By JOE WARMINGTON, QMI Agency October 14, 2010
Article Link

 There won’t be any pensions for brutally slain Cpl. Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd but the man who confessed to their murders will remain eligible for his fat retirement benefits even after pleading guilty.

Former CFB Trenton commanding officer Col. Russell Williams is scheduled to enter pleas of guilty on two counts of first-degree murder and a string of other serious crimes in a Belleville court Monday.

He is expected to be sentenced to life in prison.

But, QMI Agency has learned, it won’t affect his estimated $60,000 a year military pension.

“If his pension is vested, or he has served sufficient time, then that’s his,” explained Canadian Armed Forces Cmdr. Hubert Genest in an interview.

The rule of thumb for a military officer to get a pension is 20 years of service. Williams, 46, has been in the air force for almost 24 so the once “rising shining star” of the military qualifies.

To add to the already festering wounds, Williams has been on the Department of National Defence payroll earning more than $12,000 a month since his arrest in February.

Genest said that upon conviction Williams — who was in court Thursday as discussions of evidence took place — must pay back all sums from the arrest date upon conviction but sources tell me with legal fees, and other family considerations, reimbursement is not likely.

Perhaps they can take it from his handsome colonel’s pension? How about forcing his share of the $1 million worth of property he has with wife Mary-Elizabeth Harriman to be paid to the victims’ families?
More on link


----------



## Thompson_JM

He's pleading guilty.... I cant wait for that... then I'll have some choice opinions on this creature...

For now I can only hope that the CF are simply waiting for him to get convicted and sentenced before they drop a massive BAN-Hammer on him, stripping him of any dignity he might have once had in the CF.


----------



## armyvern

Frankly, the CF has no choice but to "simply" wait; he is innocent until proven or pled guilty.


----------



## 57Chevy

The strange case of Col. Russell Williams, which has been portrayed as a modern-day Jekyll and Hyde, will begin its climactic chapter in an Ontario courtroom Monday.
------Today
Read more: article
                        (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


----------



## Edward Campbell

:highjack:

I find this morning's media coverage funny - not _funny: ho! ho!_ but, rather, _funny: peculiar_.

The Canadian media seems obsessed with the fact, I assume it's a fact, that the US media is covering this 'event.' CBC radio news is so excited about American media covering this story that it has been part of each half hour's headline. Do we really need the American media to _validate_ this sad story? Or is the Canadian media just so celebrity obsessed that it cannot see that a real, human tragedy is being revealed here? Or is the CBC just CNN lite?

/highjack


----------



## Wolseleydog

Okay... technical administrave question -- is it true that a convicted offender such as the indiv in question will get their military pension?

It has been suggested that the govt must honour their contractual obligations, which is true.  But do I not recall that one of the terms of that contract is that in order to collect, one must be honourably released?

Just curious.  (At this point in my career, I need to start going to some SCAN seminars.)


----------



## PuckChaser

Wolseleydog said:
			
		

> Okay... technical administrave question -- is it true that a convicted offender such as the indiv in question will get their military pension?



Yes, but the individual's salary is forfeit from the time of arrest until release date.

For the second part of your question, I'm sure theres some loopholes to fix it. Clifford Olson was getting CPP up until a few months ago.


----------



## old medic

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> :highjack:
> 
> I find this morning's media coverage funny - not _funny: ho! ho!_ but, rather, _funny: peculiar_.
> 
> The Canadian media seems obsessed with the fact, I assume it's a fact, that the US media is covering this 'event.' CBC radio news is so excited about American media covering this story that it has been part of each half hour's headline. Do we really need the American media to _validate_ this sad story? Or is the Canadian media just so celebrity obsessed that it cannot see that a real, human tragedy is being revealed here? Or is the CBC just CNN lite?
> 
> /highjack



That would make a good story for the European media:   Canadian media obsessed with US media covering story. 
Someone email BBC


----------



## old medic

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20101018/russell-williams-court-101018/


Col. Russell Williams pleads guilty to all charges
CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Mon. Oct. 18 2010 11:26 AM ET



> Col. Russell Williams has pleaded guilty to more than 80 criminal charges, including the first-degree murders of two Eastern Ontario women and the sexual assaults of two others.
> 
> On Monday morning, Williams appeared in a Belleville, Ont., courtroom to enter pleas to the dozens of charges against him.
> 
> First he pleaded guilty to the murder of Jessica Lloyd and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, at the start of the hearing that began at about 10 a.m.
> 
> Then the judge read out the remaining 80-plus charges against him, which included two charges of sexual assault and dozens of break-and-enter offences. The 47-year-old Williams, previously the commander of CFB Trenton, pleaded guilty to them all.
> 
> Colonel targeted younger women
> 
> After entering the guilty pleas, the Crown prosecutor began reading an agreed statement of facts into the court, providing details on the types of women Williams targeted.
> 
> Williams would stake out the homes of young, attractive women, before breaking in and stealing their lingerie and other items.
> 
> He often modeled the lingerie he stole and fondled himself while in the homes he broke into. The prosecution said it has thousands of pictures that Williams took of himself wearing women's underwear.
> 
> Proceeding with sentencing
> 
> Over the rest of the week, the court will hear victim impact statements and the judge will then hand down a sentence to Williams.
> 
> "This is stage one of a process that will take at least three or four days, from what we're told right now," CTV's Richard Madan told CTV's Canada AM from outside the Belleville courthouse on Monday morning.
> 
> Arrival at the courthouse
> 
> Williams, a career soldier and former commander of CFB Trenton, arrived at the Belleville, Ont., courthouse at about 7:45 a.m. on Monday morning.
> 
> Madan said Williams was wearing a dark blazer and appeared to have a fresh brushcut. He was escorted by several OPP officers who whisked him into the courthouse behind a barricade that has been put in place to shield Williams from the public.
> 
> About two hours after he arrived in Belleville, Williams was brought into the courtroom, which is filled with reporters. Madan said reporters from CBS News and the New York Times were in Belleville on Monday, a testament to the wide interest in a case involving one of Canada's most senior soldiers.
> 
> Journalists and members of the public began filing into the courtroom in the mid-morning. Madan said they began lining up at 5 a.m.
> 
> A separate room has been set up for members of the media to follow the proceedings on a video feed.
> 
> Jessica Lloyd's mother, Roxanne, was among the people who arrived at the courthouse on Monday. She carried a large picture of her daughter with her.
> 
> Jessica Lloyd's brother, Andy, was also in the courtroom with several other family members.
> 
> The arrest and the investigation
> 
> Last winter, Williams made headlines after he was charged in the deaths of Lloyd and Comeau.
> 
> Lloyd worked co-ordinating school-bus schedules in Napanee, Ont.
> 
> Comeau was a flight attendant at CFB Trenton. Court documents allege that Williams broke into Comeau's home about 10 days before she was found dead.
> 
> He was also charged with two separate sexual assaults against two different women in Tweed, Ont., a small town located about an hour north of CFB Trenton, where the colonel owned a cottage.
> 
> Two months after his arrest, Williams was further charged with dozens of break-ins that occurred in Tweed, Belleville, Ont., and also in Fallingbrook, a suburb in east-end Ottawa.
> 
> Williams is also facing a $2.45-million civil lawsuit from one of the women he is accused of attacking. That case is separate from the criminal charges he will plead guilty to on Monday.






Oh, and BBC could do a story about the Canadian media's inability to differentiate between soldier, sailor, or airmen. 



> About two hours after he arrived in Belleville, Williams was brought into the courtroom, which is filled with reporters. Madan said reporters from CBS News and the New York Times were in Belleville on Monday, a testament to the wide interest in a case involving one of Canada's most senior soldiers.


----------



## aesop081

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> For the second part of your question, I'm sure theres some loopholes to fix it. Clifford Olson was getting CPP up until a few months ago.



He stopped getting his CPP because that is a "voluntary payment" by the GoC and the conservatives made changes involving these. The military's pension is not a voluntary payment by the GoC and the legislation changes that were made do not apply.


----------



## midget-boyd91

Something that crossed my mind when the question about his pension came up; What about the Colonel's (ex?)wife? Is she entitled to any of this pension? This may have been her source of income post retirement, so would halting the pension leave her high and dry?

Oddball


----------



## The Bread Guy

old medic said:
			
		

> That would make a good story for the European media:   Canadian media obsessed with US media covering story.
> Someone email BBC


Wouldn't that be like holding a small mirror in front of a big mirror - back-and-forth reflections to infinity (and beyond, I guess)?


----------



## George Wallace

uncle-midget-Oddball said:
			
		

> Something that crossed my mind when the question about his pension came up; What about the Colonel's (ex?)wife? Is she entitled to any of this pension? This may have been her source of income post retirement, so would halting the pension leave her high and dry?
> 
> Oddball



If you go back and read, his (ex)wife is in a fairly good position 'economically' in her profession.  I don't think she would be left "high and dry" with or without his pension money.


----------



## krustyrl

old medic said:
			
		

> http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20101018/russell-williams-court-101018/
> 
> 
> Col. Russell Williams pleads guilty to all charges
> CTV.ca News Staff
> Date: Mon. Oct. 18 2010 11:26 AM ET
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and BBC could do a story about the Canadian media's inability to differentiate between soldier, sailor, or airmen.



Not to de-rail this thread but yes he wears blue but I know that in my 26 year career, I've had the  "we are all soldiers first and foremost before airmen/ sailors"   brought to my attention at every opportune time.


----------



## Redeye

That's his Old Age Security, not CPP.  CPP he would be entitled to regardless, as he would have paid into it.  As far as I can tell, Williams would be eligible to receive his military pension (or at the fair least the money he has paid in over the years), and whatever CPP he has accrued when he becomes eligible to apply for it. 



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> He stopped getting his CPP because that is a "voluntary payment" by the GoC and the conservatives made changes involving these. The military's pension is not a voluntary payment by the GoC and the legislation changes that were made do not apply.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Is there not a civil suit in the works or current against Williams from some of his victims famlies?  If so and successfully prosecuted, that should take care of any pension funds that he might expect to earn for the rest of his days.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Chief Of The Defence Staff Statement On Colonel Williams’ Guilty Plea
NR - 10.127 - October 18, 2010


> OTTAWA – The following statement is issued by General Walt Natynczyk, Chief of the Defence Staff, on behalf of the Canadian Forces in reaction to the guilty plea entered today by Colonel Russell Williams in Ontario Superior Court in Belleville, Ontario, on October 18, 2010:
> 
> “The tragic events surrounding Colonel Russell Williams stunned all Canadians and none more so than the members of the Canadian Forces.  Today’s guilty plea is the first step in a healing process that will no doubt take many years.
> 
> “Upon formal conviction we will be in a position to officially begin the administrative process that will lead to Colonel Williams’ release from the Canadian Forces. This will be completed as quickly as possible.
> 
> “While we are confident that justice is prevailing, we recognize that this will not diminish the pain and anguish suffered by the families, friends, and communities so directly affected by these tragic events.
> 
> “We extend our deepest sympathies to those affected, and I reaffirm my commitment to promoting the well-being of the men and women and families of the Canadian Forces.”
> 
> -30-


----------



## brihard

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If you go back and read, his (ex)wife is in a fairly good position 'economically' in her profession.  I don't think she would be left "high and dry" with or without his pension money.



That notwithstanding, I don't believe there's legal grounds for that pension to be revoked. It's not like she was aware of what he was up to; she's got a very justifiable claim to some portion of the pension.


----------



## George Wallace

Brihard said:
			
		

> That notwithstanding, I don't believe there's legal grounds for that pension to be revoked. It's not like she was aware of what he was up to; she's got a very justifiable claim to some portion of the pension.



Exactly.  Didn't say that she wasn't, only that she is in a good position to go it alone if she had to.


----------



## mariomike

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Is there not a civil suit in the works or current against Williams from some of his victims famlies?  If so and successfully prosecuted, that should take care of any pension funds that he might expect to earn for the rest of his days.



Are Canadian pensions protected from civil suits?
Although American justice, I read that O.J. Simpson's NFL pension ( reportedly about $400,000 per year ) and his home were protected from a lawsuit by the families.

"Simpson has failed to pay the $33.5 million US judgment against him in the civil case and has wrangled in the courts for years with the victims' families. His NFL pension and Florida home are exempt from the judgment.":
http://www.cbc.ca/arts/tv/story/2006/11/21/oj-hush-money.html


----------



## Retired AF Guy

mariomike said:
			
		

> Are Canadian pensions protected from civil suits?
> Although American justice, I read that O.J. Simpson's NFL pension and his home were protected from a lawsuit by the families.



About two months ago the National Post had an article about a guy (civilian, not military) who owed back taxes to the CRA and the CRA in an attempt recover said taxes was trying to garnish his pension. According to the correspondent, who was a tax expert, the only people who can go after your pension is the taxman. And that could change as the guy was fighting in court saying the CRA could not touch his pension.


----------



## Journeyman

Brihard said:
			
		

> ...... she's got a very justifiable claim to some portion of the pension.


Based on what?

First off, I'm not a tax, pension, or divorce expert (although my pension survived my divorce), but why would she be entitled to any of it? 

The situation where we consistently see divorced woman getting a chunk of the pension is when she claims to have given up her promising career working the checkout at Walmart, which _clearly_ was setting her up for the CEO job had she not quit to raise children.

That's not the case here; she has her own stand-alone career. 

Non-lawyer me doesn't think she has a valid claim to any of his pension, although, as noted, it's certainly not my area of expertise.


----------



## mariomike

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> About two months ago the National Post had an article about a guy (civilian, not military) who owed back taxes to the CRA and the CRA in an attempt recover said taxes was trying to garnish his pension. According to the correspondent, who was a tax expert, the only people who can go after your pension is the taxman. And that could change as the guy was fighting in court saying the CRA could not touch his pension.



"In my column last week on seniors and bankruptcy, an insolvency expert commented that it was almost impossible for creditors to garnishee pensions. That may be true of creditors in the private sector, but not when it comes to the taxman.":
http://www.nationalpost.com/Government+gives+with+hand+garnishees+with+other/3411962/story.html


----------



## dapaterson

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Based on what?
> 
> First off, I'm not a tax, pension, or divorce expert (although my pension survived my divorce), but why would she be entitled to any of it?
> 
> The situation where we consistently see divorced woman getting a chunk of the pension is when she claims to have given up her promising career working the checkout at Walmart, which _clearly_ was setting her up for the CEO job had she not quit to raise children.
> 
> That's not the case here; she has her own stand-alone career.
> 
> Non-lawyer me doesn't think she has a valid claim to any of his pension, although, as noted, it's certainly not my area of expertise.



Assets acquired during the course of the marriage are considered joint assets - so half her pension for the time they were marreid is his, and half his fro mthe same period is hers.  Sometimes such things cancel out, or an agreement is reached.

I suspect ( though have not seen the documents) that the agreement that put the Tweed house in his name and the Ottawa home in hers also dissolved any claims between them for pensions or other assets - the intent was to provide a clean break between them with a minimum of work required.  He will be tied up in civili litigation for quite some time - probably not fighting claims, but consolidating them, and providing an accounting of assets to be divided.


----------



## Wolseleydog

Interesting points all round -- but can anyone answer my real question -- is it in fact a requirement of our CF pensions that one must be honourably released in order to collect?

Any one?  Any one?  Pers admin types?  Please correct me if this is incorrect.

Cheers


----------



## Michael OLeary

Wolseleydog said:
			
		

> Interesting points all round -- but can anyone answer my real question -- is it in fact a requirement of our CF pensions that one must be honourably released in order to collect?
> 
> Any one?  Any one?  Pers admin types?  Please correct me if this is incorrect.
> 
> Cheers



The Canadian Forces Superannuation Act (R.S., 1985, c. C-17) does not appear to have any requirements that a person be discharged honourably, only that they were a contributor to the pension plan.

Eligibility for Benefits



> 4.  (1) Subject to this Act, an annuity or other benefit specified in this Act shall be paid to or in respect of every person who, being required to contribute to the Superannuation Account or the Canadian Forces Pension Fund in accordance with this Act, ceases to be a member of the regular force or dies, and that annuity or other benefit shall, subject to this Act, be based on the number of years of pensionable service to the credit of that person.


----------



## 57Chevy

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Based on what?
> 
> First off, I'm not a tax, pension, or divorce expert (although my pension survived my divorce), but why would she be entitled to any of it?



I'm not too sure about this but, one or the other of the partys' concerned, or both, have to ask for the division
of related pensions through the courts.
If it is not asked for, then the split of pension for time together is overlooked or maybe not even considered.
But I'm not an expert either.

According to the article she should be quite able to cope financially.
But I am wondering, It must be real disturbing
for her,
and the many victims and their families also.

The latest :

BELLEVILLE, Ont. — As more details of a disturbing and lurid tale of sexual depravity and murder came to light Monday at a hearing for Col. Russell Williams, the Canadian Forces confirmed the once rising officer is to be stripped of his rank and service decorations when he is formally convicted — expected later this week.

"This will be completed as quickly as possible," Gen. Walt Natynczyk, Chief of the Defence Staff, said in a news release.

Read more: Russell Williams

                               (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


----------



## mariomike

"the Canadian Forces confirmed the once rising officer is to be stripped of his rank and service decorations when he is formally convicted — expected later this week."

Reminds me of the quote: ‘The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the scaffold’.
http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/vc/page3.shtml


----------



## the 48th regulator

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Is there not a civil suit in the works or current against Williams from some of his victims famlies?  If so and successfully prosecuted, that should take care of any pension funds that he might expect to earn for the rest of his days.



I agree.

Let him keep getting his pension, so that his victims can have restitution, when they sue him for the pain they have suffered.

Taking that away won't hurt him one bit, he is in the hoosegow, now.

dileas

tess


----------



## opcougar

krustyrl said:
			
		

> Not to de-rail this thread but yes he wears blue but I know that in my 26 year career, I've had the  "we are all soldiers first and foremost before airmen/ sailors"   brought to my attention at every opportune time.



True...one can easily play the same card in the "army" rape cases at Petawawa recently if you happen to be of a different element. On a separate note, here is one of RW's nasty pictures in the media

IMAGE MIGHT BE DISTURBING:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/a...f-assault?bn=1


----------



## old medic

Victim ‘disgusted’ by Williams’ actions
'I was shocked that all that could happen in my house'
By DOUG HEMPSTEAD, QMI Agency



> OTTAWA — Police came to see Brenda Constantine recently to warn her — she was going to hear about some awful things that happened in her daughter's bedroom.
> 
> She, her husband Brian, and their three teenage kids live within sight of the back-side window of Russell Williams' former home in the Fallingbrook neighbourhood of Orleans.
> 
> He would have been able to see when they were home, and when they were not. Two Christmas' ago, they were not.
> 
> Break-ins occurred at the family home on Dec. 31, 2008 and Jan. 1, 2009.
> 
> Police told Constantine it was Williams — one of more than 80 break-ins in this city and the Belleville area, he pleaded guilty to Monday in Belleville.
> 
> But they didn't know that at the time.
> 
> They did know, however, their 15-year-old daughter's underwear drawer had been cleaned out, along with some photos of her and other articles of clothing. The grim omen of what they were to learn came when police told Constantine they were able to get a DNA sample from her underwear drawer.
> 
> "It's disgusting," said Constantine.
> 
> Police told her they have photographic evidence of what Williams got up to in their daughter's bedroom -- which they discovered among similar items and after raiding his new home in Westboro in February 2010.
> 
> "They told us that while he was in her bedroom, he took photos of himself naked, photos of his penis, photos of himself wearing my daughter's clothes — her underwear, lying in her bed, using her make-up brushes, things like that," said Constantine.
> 
> "It's disgusting, it brought the whole thing back again for me. I was shocked that all that could happen in my house."
> 
> The bed is gone and her daughter didn't sleep in her room for three months.
> 
> But, right after the break-in — and still not knowing the full story — the family decided to beef up security.
> 
> They had an alarm system installed the next day, a security audit, bars were added to the basement windows, they enrolled in personal safety courses and for six months their daughter was never left alone.
> 
> Her daughter is 17 now and didn't know Monday was the day Williams was set to enter pleas to a slew of charges against him — two first-degree murder raps among them.
> 
> She chooses not to watch the news, read papers or follow the story in any way.
> 
> As bits and pieces of the Williams' allegations reached her in recent weeks, Constantine said her daughter began to get panic attacks.
> 
> "We will move on, the new details have hit. It's like getting hit all over again, but we will move on."



[grizzled]
P.S. - I'll save the hi-jack for another thread.   I've never bought into that line... It's a nice way for bean counters to fool themselves about how big the services really are (We have 67,756 in uniform).  Unification tried to do away with it,  But all it did was force people to come up with new vague terms to try and distinguish their role (I'm a hard sea trade, I'm a Purple trade, I'm in the Combat Arms) for simple jobs... 
To paraphrase George Carlin - Bullshit : Your a sailor / in the Air Force / In the Army, plain and simple. 
[/grizzled]


----------



## old medic

Williams criminal activity escalated in '09
By LUKE HENDRY, QMI Agency
Last Updated: October 18, 2010 7:40pm
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/10/18/15738801.html


> BELLEVILLE, Ont. - Col. Russell Williams was already a seasoned break-in artist, but something changed in the summer of 2009.
> 
> It was then, Crown attorneys say, that he took a “very disturbing” first step toward violent crimes.
> 
> Prosecutors, led by Hastings County Crown attorney Lee Burgess, began presenting their case against Williams Monday in Belleville's Ontario Superior Court of Justice.
> 
> They showed Williams' string of crimes began Sept. 9, 2007, with a break-in at a Tweed, Ont.-area residence and ended early this year with the murder of Belleville's Jessica Lloyd.
> 
> But in the summer of 2009, prosecutors said, something changed.
> 
> On June 19, Williams entered an Ottawa home, stole 186 garments and wrote a letter to the teenage victim. In it, he posed as a teen boy, using slang and saying he hoped to meet her.
> 
> “I know all about you,” Williams wrote, along with several other graphic lines.
> 
> It did not appear the letter was ever left for the girl to find, prosecutors said.
> 
> Regional Crown Robert Morrison and Hastings County assistant Crown Joe Dart said Williams was by then growing bolder.
> 
> They cited as further proof the case of another break-in, this time on Charles Court in Tweed on Friday, July 10, 2009. It resulted in the 62nd of the 88 total charges to which Williams pleaded guilty on Monday.
> 
> Dart said Williams stood in the backyard of a home for more than a half-hour. From the treeline, he watched as a female occupant of the home headed into the shower.
> 
> “He then stripped down” and, while naked, broke into the home. Williams stole a pair of the victim's underwear before fleeing, then recorded his actions in his notes, Dart said.
> 
> It was his sixth of nine visits to the property.
> 
> That Monday, he was interviewed at CFB Trenton by The Belleville Intelligencer. On July 15 he would replace Col. Mike Hood as wing commander of Canada's largest air force base.
> 
> He arrived as the base was in the midst of an estimated $800-million major infrastructure investment.
> 
> "It's very exciting," Williams said that Monday. "I've watched a number of these projects from a distance and I'm looking forward to being much more closely involved."
> 
> But Dart said Williams was privately fuelled by something else.
> 
> On Feb. 7, 2010, Williams discussed the Charles Court theft and many other cases with Det.-Sgt. Jim Smith, a behavioural analyst with the Ontario Provincial Police.
> 
> “Mr. Williams agreed, with Det.-Sgt. Smith's suggestion, that ... his behaviour had escalated,” said Dart. “He wanted to take more risks.”
> 
> Fellow prosecutor Morrison had earlier deemed the case to be a "very disturbing event -- (which) represented a serious escalation in his behaviour and perhaps foreshadowed ... the murders and sexual assaults" that began later that year.
> 
> Williams attacked one Tweed woman in her home Sept. 17, 2009, and another Sept. 30.
> 
> Cpl. Marie-France Comeau was found dead in her home Nov. 25. Jessica Lloyd's body was found outside Tweed Feb. 8.


----------



## old medic

Accused colonel told interrogators he was distressed by death of his cat
Greg McArthur
From Monday's Globe and Mail
Last updated Monday, Oct. 18, 2010 12:34PM EDT



> It was on Feb. 7, at some point during his nine-hour interrogation by the Ontario Provincial Police, that Colonel Russell Williams finally got around to addressing that which had been haunting him.
> 
> At the time, he had murdered two young women by suffocation, beaten and tied up two of his neighbours before photographing them naked, and stolen about 500 items of lingerie and clothing from the closets of unsuspecting women. But one of the things that had been most distressing for him, he confided to his interrogator, Detective Sergeant Jim Smith, was the death of his old black and white cat, Curio.
> 
> “The only thing he expressed regret about was his cat. He mentions it on two or three occasions,” said a source close to the investigation who has reviewed Col. William’s detailed statement to police.
> 
> This week, when Col. Williams stands in a Belleville, Ont., courtroom and pleads guilty more than 80 times, his many victims have said they hope to find an inkling of an explanation in the horrifying spectacle. But according to several sources, the only two possible hints the former air base commander has ever let slip about why he went on his after-dark, misogynistic rampages – the passing of his cat and his chronic joint pain – will leave everyone wanting.
> 
> Perhaps the most flabbergasting of those hints, investigators say, is the euthanizing of Curio, an 18-year-old indoor cat that had been with the officer and his wife, Mary-Elizabeth Harriman, since it was a kitten. The couple acquired Curio – the word means an unusual, and often fascinating, object of art – in the early 1990s, when Col. Williams was stationed in Portage La Prairie, Man., training up-and-coming pilots.
> 
> The few people who were close with Col. Williams have said Curio’s death, which took place around the 2008 Christmas holidays, had a profound and visible impact. When police raided his two homes, they not only uncovered a neatly catalogued trove of women’s underwear and videotapes of the slayings, but hundreds of digital photos of the cat in a variety of poses and backdrops. An image of the animal served as the wallpaper on the colonel’s BlackBerry. Neighbours at his former home in the Ottawa suburb of Orleans, as well as neighbours at the couple’s cottage in the village of Tweed, recalled the decorated officer being near tears when he told them about Curio’s passing.
> 
> Sources close to the investigation scoff at the idea that the cat was a possible trigger – and not merely because it sounds so absurd, but more so because it can’t be squared with the chronology of Col. William’s dark descent; Curio’s death took place more than a year after Col. Williams began his string of lingerie thefts.
> 
> Col. Williams also revealed to police in the interrogation that he suffered from chronic pain, a condition that his co-workers and old friends have returned to time and time again when they’ve been asked by reporters about any changes they observed. Jeff Farquhar, Col. Williams’ former university roommate and one of his few close friends, said he couldn’t help but notice about eight prescription bottles on the officer’s bathroom counter during a visit to the cottage in the summer of 2009.
> 
> “I got the impression that some of it was painkillers, but there were many different labels. I wasn’t snooping and I didn’t examine the labels,” Mr. Farquhar said. Other associates, such as Paul Ferguson, the program director at Belleville country music radio station Cool 100, recalled that at the annual wing commander’s golf tournament in 2009, Col. Williams, an avid golfer, couldn’t use a driver because he said it would ruin his back.
> 
> Police say they have no knowledge of Col. Williams seeking psychiatric treatment or reports of mental illness, though his associates over the years have certainly offered their own informal diagnosis. At the University of Toronto’s Scarborough campus residence, he was known for demanding cleanliness, and he was repeatedly bugged about his obsessive compulsive-type behaviour. He accounted for every penny he spent by writing it down on a clipboard he kept in his room, and assigned cleaning tasks for everyone in his four-bedroom residence. His hyper-attention to order escalated in later years, and it was impossible for him to walk away from a fingerprint on his stainless steel fridge without wiping it off. He was an avid photographer, and he stored and categorized all of his digital photos in his office on individual memory keys, with each key assigned to its own cardboard box and clear plastic baggy.
> 
> “It was like you had walked into somebody’s museum. Everything was painstakingly organized,” Mr. Farquhar said.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

> “The only thing he expressed regret about was his cat. He mentions it on two or three occasions,” said a source close to the investigation



WTF?  I suppose he doesn't like Monday's either?  
It does sound absurd, but then again they did say that his violence and behavior took a sharp upswing in 2009.  Kitty bought it at Christmas 2008.  

And still no mention of a dangerous offender status for him?


----------



## Thompson_JM

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> WTF?  I suppose he doesn't like Monday's either?
> It does sound absurd, but then again they did say that his violence and behavior took a sharp upswing in 2009.  Kitty bought it at Christmas 2008.
> 
> And still no mention of a dangerous offender status for him?




No kidding.....

This creature should never see the outside of a prison wall for the rest of his natural life....

I'd prefer other methods of punishment... but in their absence, that would suffice...


----------



## OldSolduer

As an insight, serial offenders typically feel more distress about their pets than humans. He's been doing this a while.

Check his childhood......fires, bedwetting, torturing animals. I bet there's someone who know's something.


----------



## krustyrl

...as this unfolds it is becoming more macabre.    :rage:


----------



## zipperhead_cop

krustyrl said:
			
		

> ...as this unfolds it is becoming more macabre.    :rage:



Just like when Buffalo Bill is losing his mind because the girl in the pit has his dog (SOTL reference)

Wonder if there are any pics of Williams doing a tuck and cross in the mirror?   :-X

_"Would you salute me? I'd salute me!"_


----------



## old medic

Editorial - Calgary Sun for 19 October 2010

Colonel's case exposes military flaws
Last Updated: October 19, 2010 12:00am
http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/editorial/2010/10/18/15738151.html



> We know how we would like to see it happen.
> 
> Russell Williams would be sitting in his cell when his dress military uniform is brought in.
> 
> He would be forced to spit-polish his shoes, polish his medals, and dust the lint from his stripes.
> 
> And then he would be delivered in shackles to the parade ground at CFB Trenton, the air base he once commanded and, in front of all the men and women he disgraced, his military medals would be ripped from his chest, his air force wings torn away, and his colonel's rank busted down to civilian.
> 
> It won't literally happen that way, of course, but it will happen -- thanks to a fast-acting military command who wants this monstrous contamination of the military's honour lanced from its ranks.
> 
> At a news conference Monday, at the same time the sicko Williams was pleading guilty to two counts of first-degree murder, two violent sex attacks and a litany of perversions that brought gasps and turned stomachs in the courtroom, the Department of Defence announced it would immediately go to work to legally strip him of his rank and military decorations.
> 
> This is a must.
> 
> The military acknowledged, however, that it cannot do anything about Williams's pension and he is entitled to it unless the government takes legislative steps to strip him of it.
> 
> This, of course, must be done as well.
> 
> And it must be done now.
> 
> The House of Commons is back in session, so there is no excuse for putting it off.
> 
> It's the right thing to do.
> 
> The next question, however, is how did a sexual deviant and psycho like Russell Williams become such a quick star in the military without his Jekyll-and-Hyde character being even remotely detected?
> 
> Where was the psychiatric screening?
> 
> Remember, Williams was caught by fluke oddity of a tire track when a curious passerby wondered why an SUV was strangely parked in a certain field.
> 
> Brig.-Gen. Neville Russell, director general of air personnel, said there was a review of the process when Williams was shockingly charged, and that the military was still looking into this "terrible betrayal of trust."
> 
> We should hope so.
> 
> Answers are drastically needed.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

> The next question, however, is how did a sexual deviant and psycho like Russell Williams become such a quick star in the military without his Jekyll-and-Hyde character being even remotely detected?



He was probably awesome with PowerPoint and Flocarc (sp?)


----------



## brihard

Wanna bet this is a trigger for eventual inclusion of proper psychological assessment for people entering or rising above certain levels in the military? MMPI, or some such? Or even inclusion of the PCL-R or some other diagnostic for psychopathy in entrance screening?

And hell, why not? The police already do a personality inventory...


----------



## jollyjacktar

Photos at link to story headline below.  I'm disgusted by Williams...


Revealed: The sick double life of Canadian Air Force pilot who murdered two women and broke into girls' bedrooms to steal their underwear


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1321764/Pilot-Colonel-Russell-Williams-broke-girls-bedrooms-steal-underwear.html#ixzz12nbyXuyh


----------



## PuckChaser

I wonder if someone should point out to the media that this Colonel held a SA clearance, and had to have been investigated every 5 years to keep it. The military isn't the one who does those clearances, someone dropped the ball at DPM Secur or CSIS/RCMP. Young recruits wait 3 years for a clearance, yet they let a serial rapist slip through the tracks?


----------



## Wookilar

I can see where this freak wouldn't be on anyones radar, he didn't even have so much as a speeding ticket. He was careful, he was smart (until he escalated, which is classic behaviour), there's nothing harder to catch than someone like that.

What I can't figure out is why the police depts involved never put out an alert for a suspected serial B&E ahh...weirdo? Especially given the culprit's targets and preferred trophies. A hightened alert level would have resulted in faster response times, more reports, maybe even some more careful investigating. You can't tell me this guy carried off this many B&E's and didn't leave a single fingerprint?

Wook


----------



## GAP

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I wonder if someone should point out to the media that this Colonel held a SA clearance, and had to have been investigated every 5 years to keep it. The military isn't the one who does those clearances, someone dropped the ball at DPM Secur or CSIS/RCMP. Young recruits wait 3 years for a clearance, yet they let a serial rapist slip through the tracks?



The man was clever, manipulative, and competent.....there was nothing outwardly flagging his activities, and yet the people doing the security clearance should have caught it.....how, by checking his burglary, rapist, murderer card?

Sometimes intelligent, manipulative people do slip through the cracks.....the cracks are set by our "experts"....all one has to do is know and avoid the activities that bring up flags.....


----------



## dapaterson

One side note:  Promotion and demotion policy are in the hands of the CDS.  His commission, however, is from the Governor-General, so to strip him of that will require action from the GG.  Similarly, most honours are from the Crown and thus would have to be removed by the GG, and not by the CF.

Minor semantics, but it is important that things are done correctly.


----------



## dapaterson

Whoops - on reading the QR&Os, I made a mistake.  QR&O chapter 18 disucsses forfeiture of decorations and medals:



> 18.27 – FORFEITURE AND RESTORATION OF DECORATIONS AND MEDALS OTHER THAN THOSE AWARDED FOR GALLANTRY AND WAR MEDALS
> 
> (1) An officer or non-commissioned member shall forfeit any decoration or medal awarded to the member or to which the member may be entitled for long service, good conduct, efficiency to meritorious service other than gallantry, where the members is:
> 
> (a) sentenced to life imprisonment; (5 June 2008)
> 
> (b) sentenced to dismissal with disgrace from Her Majesty’s service;
> 
> (c) sentenced to dismissal from Her Majesty’s service; or
> 
> (d) released for misconduct;
> 
> (2) An officer or non-commissioned member may be ordered by the Minister to forfeit any decoration or medal awarded to the member or to which the member may be entitled for long service, good conduct, efficiency or meritorious service other than gallantry, where the member is:
> 
> (a) convicted by a civil authority of any serious offence; or
> 
> (b) convicted of an offence of treason, sedition, mutiny, cowardice, desertion or a disgraceful offence against morality;
> 
> (3) Any decoration or medal forfeited may be restored at the discretion of the Minister.
> 
> (M) (9 May 2008 effective 5 June 2008)


----------



## ModlrMike

GAP said:
			
		

> The man was clever, manipulative, and competent.....there was nothing outwardly flagging his activities, and yet the people doing the security clearance should have caught it.....how, by checking his burglary, rapist, murderer card?
> 
> Sometimes intelligent, manipulative people do slip through the cracks.....the cracks are set by our "experts"....all one has to do is know and avoid the activities that bring up flags.....



It's a common misconception that psychopaths are idiots. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They're usually caught because they make a mistake, not because they're stupid.

As to his commission, now that he's plead guilty, he may be tried by CM in absentia, and sentenced to reduction in rank, and forfeiture of allowances, and release from the CF (just thinking out loud). The MND and PM will likely have to petition the GG to relieve him of his commission.


----------



## Journeyman

Brihard said:
			
		

> And hell, why not? The police already do a personality inventory...


Because I can think of _many_ dozens of things I'd rather the Defence budget be spent on.

Yes, it's a horrific case....but I'm adverse to flinching, and tarring whatever the number of Reg/Res uniformed people because of the actions of one.




Not to mention that some of the tasks we ask of soldiers may be frowned upon by those who slavishly worship MMPI


----------



## old medic

Court hears details of 2nd sex assault
By QMI Agency
19 October 2010 10:06am
http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canada/2010/10/19/15744551.html



> BELLEVILLE, Ont. - The escalating sex crimes of Canada's notorious military monster were back on the agenda in court here Tuesday, starting the day with details surrounding Col. Russell Williams' second sex assault victim.
> 
> Court heard how Williams broke into Laurie Massicotte's home several times secretly – as he did to several other homes in his Tweed, Ont. neighbourhood – before confronting her on Sept. 29, 2009.
> 
> She had fallen asleep on the couch watching Law and Order when she awoke to someone hitting her on the head.
> 
> Williams told Massicotte he was one of several burglars in the house before he blindfolded and bound her.
> 
> Court heard how he told her he wouldn't kill her or rape her if she did what he wanted – allow him to cut away her clothing and to photograph her.
> 
> After taking photos and fondling her he left, saying he had to check on his “friends” in the house. Massicotte phoned 911 and police found her still blindfolded, bound with vinyl ties.
> 
> In a confession, the Crown said Williams thought the blow to the head with a flashlight would knock her out.
> 
> She told police she recognized his voice. No doubt, since the two were neighbours.
> 
> “He lived only a few hundred feet away,” Crown Lee Burgess told the courtroom. “He went to bed, then went to work the next day as normal.”
> 
> In court, Williams sat broken and shamed in the prisoners' box, a day after the nation was shocked by graphic evidence photos of the former CFB Trenton commander proudly dressed in girls' underwear that he'd compulsively raided and collected in more than 80 furtive break-ins in eastern Ontario.
> 
> The tense courtroom is braced for far worse ugliness as an agreed statement of facts later in the day is to detail the escalation of his sexual deviancy with the brutal rapes and murders of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd.
> 
> Grim-faced family members filed into the courtroom shortly before the start of the 10 a.m. proceedings before Justice Robert Scott.
> 
> It's not known when the hearing will conclude but based on the hearing's progress Monday it appears sentencing by Justice Robert Scott will occur by week's end.




Yellow hi-lite is my own.


----------



## old medic

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101019/russell-williams-101019/

CTV.ca News Staff
19 October 2010 11:37 AM ET



> One of Col. Russell Williams' victims begged him not to post pictures of her on the Internet, an Ontario court heard Tuesday.
> 
> The woman's story was described in a Belleville, Ont., courthouse by Crown prosecutors on Tuesday morning.
> 
> The woman had fallen asleep in her bedroom while watching TV in September 2009 when she someone hit her in the head with a flashlight, in an attempt to knock her out.
> 
> It was Williams, who told her she was being robbed.
> 
> He tied his victim up and blindfolded her. Then he cut off her top and bra and began taking photos of her.
> 
> He indicated that she would not be harmed if she let him take pictures. He also forced her into various poses.
> 
> After the attack, Williams returned to his home.
> 
> The details of the September 2009 attack were described by Crown prosecutors in a Belleville, Ont., court on Tuesday morning.
> 
> The prosecutors have been reading the details of Williams' many crimes into the court since Monday, when the former CFB Trenton commander pleaded guilty to more than 80 criminal charges. The information has been corroborated by the defence, as part of an agreed statement of facts.
> 
> The 47-year-old Williams, wearing a black suit and light-coloured striped shirt sat quietly in the court on Tuesday morning.
> 
> After a brief recess following the description of the sexual assault, Crown prosecutors began to describe how Williams came to target Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, the first of two women the disgraced colonel has admitted to killing.
> 
> The Crown is also expected to provide details Tuesday about the final moments of the life of Jessica Lloyd, who was killed in January.
> 
> ‘Awful' case surrounding disgraced colonel
> 
> Prior to the start of Tuesday's hearing, Crown prosecutor Lee Burgess said the case was "the most awful" he had dealt with in his 20-year career.
> 
> Michael Edelson, the lawyer representing Williams, said the day's proceedings were going to be "another extremely difficult day."
> 
> On Monday, the court was shown dozens of photos that Williams took during a series of fetish break-ins over a period of more than two years.
> 
> The Crown has said that Williams also took videos of some incidents as well, but prosecutors say they will not show any of the videos that recorded the sexual assault or murder of his victims. ..............


----------



## dapaterson

Having read more of today's testimony, I am increasingly convinced that a court martial for "Scandalous Conduct" as a minimum should be held.  His betrayal of trust as a military leader in the assault and murder of a subordinate provides a clear military nexus.

Or, to translate into the vernacular, he's a b*stard and a son-of-a-b*tch, but he's our b*stard and our son-of-a-b*tch, so we have to make a clear, open denunciation of him and his conduct.  Dismissal with disgrace; not dismissal for misconduct.


(Edit to defeat the naughty words filters)


----------



## old medic

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Dismissal with disgrace; not dismissal for misconduct.




Well said.  

The GG needs to revoke the commissioning scroll as well.


----------



## old medic

Sex assault victim pleaded for her life before Col. Williams killed her 
Greg McArthur and Timothy Appleby
Belleville, Ont.— Globe and Mail Update
19 October 2010 12:29PM EDT
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/sex-assault-victim-pleaded-for-her-life-before-col-williams-killed-her/article1763300/


> Colonel Russell Williams's first murder victim _ a corporal under his command _ initially fought off his attack and later pleaded several times for her life as he bound her, beat her, raped her repeatedly and recorded the ordeal on both photographs and video.
> 
> "You're going to kill me, aren't you?" Corporal Marie-France Comeau asked her killer near the end of the attack, a Belleville, Ont., court was told today during a sentencing hearing for the former fast-rising military star and nearby base commander.
> 
> "Have a heart please... I want to live."
> 
> But court was told that the colonel, apparently worried that police might connect him to other sexual assaults if she lived and reported the attack, ignored her pleas, covered all her airways with duct tape and let her suffocate. .........



continues at link


----------



## Occam

Jesus...


----------



## OldSolduer

Occam said:
			
		

> Jesus...


I agree.....

In my previous career as a Corrections Officer, I spoke with an inmate who butchered and ate part of his victim....the body parts were never recovered. I can't beleive I just wrote this....the world we are in is strange is it not?


He was intelligent and highly articulate as well. Psychopaths/sociopaths are far smarter than society gives them credit for.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Now you know why I can live without the coverage until the sentence is passed....


----------



## Occam

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Now you know why I can live without the coverage until the sentence is passed....



After reading the live blog about Jessica Lloyd in this afternoon's proceeding, I honestly and sincerely wish I'd done the same.  There had better be a special place in hell for this POS.


----------



## GK .Dundas

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Having read more of today's testimony, I am increasingly convinced that a court martial for "Scandalous Conduct" as a minimum should be held.  His betrayal of trust as a military leader in the assault and murder of a subordinate provides a clear military nexus.
> 
> Or, to translate into the vernacular, he's a b*stard and a son-of-a-b*tch, but he's our b*stard and our son-of-a-b*tch, so we have to make a clear, open denunciation of him and his conduct.  Dismissal with disgrace; not dismissal for misconduct.
> 
> 
> (Edit to defeat the naughty words filters)


 Probably wont happen, I suspect the senior Brass are currently sitting with their heads buried in the sand devoutly hoping this all goes away.It would require them to to take responsibility And I'm very much afraid we're not as far from Somalia as we like to think.
Personally I like to see him broken busted down to 2nd LT  and have the whole Hollywood number done on him .
you know  publicly have his badges of rank and  and medals torn off and ground into the dirt . stripped of his uniform even down to having his sword broken.
I suspect the worst they'll do is send him a badly written form letter.
I don't even think there are words to describe my feelings about this whole business.


----------



## dapaterson

I am not as disheartened as you; I'm not going to hold my breath for a court-martial, but I do think the administrative actions will be done - but they ahve to be done right, and we're dealing in some very seldom-used parts of the regulations - so DND/CF, being DND/CF, will be slower than some might like.


----------



## chris the merc

Won't Mr. Williams be sent to Edmonton for two years?


----------



## krustyrl

Having been posted to 8Wg in '99 to '10 , I am without a doubt speechless.


----------



## Michael OLeary

chris the merc said:
			
		

> Won't Mr. Williams be sent to Edmonton for two years?



No, he's not being tried by the military justice system.


----------



## chris the merc

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> No, he's not being tried by the military justice system.



You can ONLY be sent to Edmonton if you were convicted by a military court but not if you were convicted by a civilian court?


----------



## dapaterson

chris the merc said:
			
		

> Won't Mr. Williams be sent to Edmonton for two years?



Only if sentenced by a court martial.  Criminal Code charges like those he's plead guilty to do not result in time at the military jail.

Criminal code = civilian jail

Court martial = military jail


----------



## OldSolduer

chris the merc said:
			
		

> Won't Mr. Williams be sent to Edmonton for two years?


Doubt it as this is a Criminal Code of Canada jurisdiction. I'm sure the legal eagles here will correct me if I'm wrong.

I think he'll be sent to Protective Custody immediately.


----------



## aesop081

chris the merc said:
			
		

> You can ONLY be sent to Edmonton if you were convicted by a military court but not if you were convicted by a civilian court?



Seems self-explanatory.


----------



## chris the merc

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Only if sentenced by a court martial.  Criminal Code charges like those he's plead guilty to do not result in time at the military jail.
> 
> Criminal code = civilian jail
> 
> Court martial = military jail



But, Kyle Brown served time at Edmonton and he was charged with a criminal code offence.


----------



## aesop081

chris the merc said:
			
		

> But, Kyle Brown served time at Edmonton and he was charged with a criminal code offence.



Kyle Brown was not tried in a civil court.


----------



## Michael OLeary

chris the merc said:
			
		

> But, Kyle Brown served time at Edmonton and he was charged with a criminal code offence.



He was Court Martialled, which can include charges under the Criminal Code.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/somalia/vol1/v1c1e.htm



> The Canadian Forces responded in many ways to the death of Shidane Arone and other incidents that occurred in Somalia. Several courts martial, arising mostly though not exclusively from misconduct relating to the death of Shidane Arone, were launched and concluded. A court martial trial began against Master Corporal Clayton Matchee, the person who allegedly beat Shidane Arone to death. The trial did not proceed, however, because injuries resulting from an apparent suicide attempt rendered MCpl Matchee unfit to stand trial. *The most prominent court martial was arguably that of Private Kyle Brown, who was convicted of manslaughter and torture in the death of Mr. Arone.* In some cases, appeals of the courts martial arising from the Somalia operation were launched. Other individuals involved suffered sanctions less severe than imprisonment upon conviction.


----------



## OldSolduer

Kyle Brown was also engaged in an operation in Somalia, therefore the NDA has jurisdiction.


----------



## chris the merc

Great thread.

I also want to add that I have read that he is going to be stripped of his rank AND medals.

Strip the rank, fine, but his medals????????? That is going too far, I believe.

Medals are like awards, they are yours for life. If someone committed a crime and won a nobel peace prize, they would not strip him of that.


----------



## the 48th regulator

chris the merc said:
			
		

> Great thread.
> 
> I also want to add that I have read that he is going to be stripped of his rank AND medals.
> 
> Strip the rank, fine, but his medals????????? That is going too far, I believe.
> 
> Medals are like awards, they are yours for life. If someone committed a crime and won a nobel peace prize, they would not strip him of that.



Yes they would.

Now Chris, trundle over to your thread about the movie we were going to make.  I have been waiting for a long time, for you to comment about my ideas.

dileas

tess


----------



## Nfld Sapper

chris the merc said:
			
		

> Great thread.
> 
> I also want to add that I have read that he is going to be stripped of his rank AND medals.
> 
> Strip the rank, fine, but his medals????????? That is going too far, I believe.
> 
> Medals are like awards, they are yours for life. If someone committed a crime and won a nobel peace prize, they would not strip him of that.



So they are going to strip him of 2 medals,  South-West Asia Service Medal and a Canadian Forces Decoration big freaking deal......


----------



## Michael OLeary

Although I am not aware of the specific terms for doing so, the Order in Council for the Canadian Forces Decorations does include reference to forfeiture of the award.  The 1981 version of the Order in Council refers to the Queen's Regulations and Orders regarding forfeiture.

Reference: _The Canadian Forces' Decoration_, by Christopher McCreery, DHR/2010


----------



## Michael OLeary

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> So they are going to strip him of 2 medals,  South-West Asia Service Medal and a Canadian Forces Decoration big freaking deal......



It's the point of the matter, not the perceived importance of the awards in some people's minds.


----------



## OldSolduer

I'd have to research this, but I am quite certain that a even a VC winner can be stripped if he/she was convicted of a very serious offence.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I'd have to research this, but I am quite certain that a even a VC winner can be stripped if he/she was convicted of a very serious offence.



The original Warrant (1859) for the VC allowed forfeiture, and it was done eight times, but in 1920 King George V stated that it should not be removed from a recipient.



> On Collis' death his sister made a plea to King George to restore the decoration to her brother. The King was deeply touched and felt that once the medal had been awarded it should not be forfeited. His Private Secretary, Lord Stamfordham sent a letter on the 26 July 1920 he expressed his views with some force. *"The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the scaffold."*



See also The Victoria Cross (IWM)



> *Have any VC's been forfeited?*
> Under the terms of the original Warrant there was an expulsion clause that allowed for a recipient's name to be erased from the official Register in certain wholly discreditable circumstances. HM King George V had expressed his strong disapproval of the practice of forfeiture, however the amending Warrant of 1920 still contained the relevant clause. A later amending Warrant published in 1931 gave the Sovereign the new power to annul any forfeiture and restore both the award and pension. Although there are eight instances of forfeiture, the names of these men continue to be included in both official and unofficial lists of recipients.


----------



## ballz

chris the merc said:
			
		

> Strip the rank, fine, but his medals????????? That is going too far, I believe.



Hmmm, going too far? I believe the acts he has plead guilty to deserve capital punishment. Unfortunately, I've only got 1 vote, same as you and the rest of Canadians that are 18+.


----------



## dapaterson

In theory a VC winner could be stripped of the medal; in practice, King George V opined:



> The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the scaffold.



No VC has been forfeited since 1908 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victoria_Cross_forfeitures)


----------



## chris the merc

ballz said:
			
		

> Hmmm, going too far? I believe the acts he has plead guilty to deserve capital punishment.



That, I can agree on.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I think he'll be sent to Protective Custody immediately.



Shame, that.  He deserves the general population.


----------



## krustyrl

...at the very least.!     :rage:


----------



## dogger1936

Some pictures of the fine Col.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1321764/Pilot-Colonel-Russell-Williams-broke-girls-bedrooms-steal-underwear.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


----------



## Sapplicant

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1321764/Pilot-Colonel-Russell-Williams-broke-girls-bedrooms-steal-underwear.html?ito=feeds-newsxml



Just a thought...

Perhaps the mods and mentors and such could save some time in the recruiting threads...

A lot of people come on with the typical "I have (insert issue) going on in my life. Will I still get in the army?"

They could be redirected to this with a message reading "They let that in. I'm sure you'll be juuuuust fine ;D".

Personally, I find it rather encouraging....


----------



## wildman0101

86 .... 86 ..... no mercy... death penalty.
Iam going to f*** up purposefully for the
rest of my life because when i see you in 
hell sir(with disrespect) ill be the one with 
3 stripes cracking the whip. 
Bank on it.
Scoty  B
Is this a little to strongly stated mod's?


----------



## aesop081

Sapplicant said:
			
		

> They could be redirected to this with a message reading "They let that in. I'm sure you'll be juuuuust fine ;D".
> 
> Personally, I find it rather encouraging....



Other people may have different opinions but i find your comment incredibly stupid. I have a pretty good idea where YOU should be redirected.


----------



## pbi

Sapplicant said:
			
		

> Just a thought...
> 
> Perhaps the mods and mentors and such could save some time in the recruiting threads...
> 
> A lot of people come on with the typical "I have (insert issue) going on in my life. Will I still get in the army?"
> 
> They could be redirected to this with a message reading "They let that in. I'm sure you'll be juuuuust fine ;D".
> 
> Personally, I find it rather encouraging....



?????????????? Not quite getting your point here, somehow.


----------



## Alberta

This guy deserves everything he gets and more. On being stripped of his medals, I have absolutely no problem with that. Whether they were earned serving or not, he more than loses out on any right to wear them whatsoever when he killed another service member and disgraced the uniform he served in. Truly the most disgusting thing I could fathom from another military member.


----------



## wildman0101

Sorry that last post was directed to Prisoner william's.
My Apoligie's.
Scoty B


----------



## IBM

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Quote from: Sapplicant on Today at 17:39:13
> 
> 
> They could be redirected to this with a message reading "They let that in. I'm sure you'll be juuuuust fine ;D".
> 
> Personally, I find it rather encouraging....
> 
> 
> Other people may have different opinions but i find your comment incredibly stupid. I have a pretty good idea where YOU should be redirected.



Agreed, Sapplicant if that is your idea of humor I find it rather tasteless. IMO Williams is probably the biggest disgrace ever to the uniform.

What really bugs me though is the fact that the media still refers to him as a Col. I'd thought that the powers that be would have expedited his release in this case. That way we can start properly addressing him as Prisoner.


----------



## marshall sl

Actualy, we will adress him as Inmate Williams.


----------



## dogger1936

Those pictures honestly make me sick to my stomach. Im glad they posted them in the media....it really freaks me out. Shows how differnt someone can be outta uniform


----------



## old medic

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20101019/williams-prosecution-101019/
Andy Johnson, CTV.ca News
19 October 2010 4:48 PM ET



> BELLEVILLE, Ont. — When asked why he has gone into such minute detail about the crimes committed by Col. Russell Williams, Crown Attorney Lee Burgess said it's all about giving context to how horrific the crimes were.
> 
> "I think people really need to know the circumstances of what happened here," he told CTV.ca after court ended on Tuesday.
> 
> "You can say someone committed two murders, you can say someone committed two sexual assaults, but it doesn't give you the full context."
> 
> Many reporters covering the hearings have wondered why the Crown chose to reveal such great detail about how Williams committed his crimes.
> 
> It took two full days to read through the agreed statement of facts about the two murders, two sexual assaults and dozens of break-and-enters and thefts.
> 
> Burgess said people simply need to know how monstrous the crimes were.
> 
> He also said while Williams is getting an automatic 25 years with no parole, there will likely come a time when a parole board is deciding his future.
> 
> That's when the details of his sex assaults, murders and obsession with little girls' underwear will be important.
> 
> "Parole boards look at the danger someone presents. If in 25 years they're looking at the danger (Williams) presents, they're going to look back at the record from today," he said.


----------



## old medic

Day 3 (Wed. Oct. 20th) coming up.



> The Crown is expected to reveal more details about the investigation into Col. Williams's crimes and show video of his confession to police interrogators.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Maybe we could start a letter campaign to tell him what a jerk and a loser his cat was?  Maybe that might get to him?  He certainly could care less about the humans he affected.


----------



## dapaterson

From today's Toronto Sun, the Director of Military Prosecutions on why there will not be a court-martial:

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/letters/2010/10/19/15753266.html



> One trial for Williams
> 
> Re “Due to collect $60Gs a year” (Oct. 15): Joe Warmington cites retired colonel Michel Drapeau as suggesting Colonel Russell Williams should be tried by court martial. This suggestion is simply wrong in law. Warmington rightly concludes there will be no court martial arising out of the same facts leading to the civilian charges against Williams. This is because section 66 of the National Defence Act specifically prevents an individual from being tried by court martial where the offense or any other substantially similar offense arising out of the same underlying facts have been previously dealt with by a civilian court. This basic principle is fundamental within our civilian and military justice systems.
> 
> Bruce MacGregor
> Lieutenant-Colonel
> Director of Law/Military Justice Policy
> Office of the Judge Advocate General
> 
> (Once for this evidence is more than enough)



Lieutenant Colonel MacGregor is clearly in need of a refresher on military law.  There are ample areas under the NDA that could be used to court-martial Colonel Williams without risking double jeopardy, providing a needed military denunciation of him and his conduct.

For example, fighting with another member of the Canadian Forces (NDA 86) is an offence which carries a punishment of two years imprisonment or less punishment; striking or ill-treating a subordinate (NDA 95) carries the same punishment; and scandalous conduct by an officer (NDA 92) carries a sentence of dismissal with disgrace or dismissal.  And of course, the catch-all of conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline (NDA 129)  could be employed as well.

A court-martial for Colonel Williams with those charges would not represent double jeopardy as all are uniquely military offences for which he has not been charged under the Criminal Code.  They would provide an opportunity for the Canadian Forces to clearly denounce his behaviour, and reflect the military community’s revulsion at Colonel Williams’ gross failings as a military leader.


----------



## Remius

Yes, I'm sure that Lt. Col. MacGregor really needs a refresher in military law.

Given that he's the expert (ie the Director of Law/Military Justice Policy) for JAG he must have gotten what he stated wrong.  I doubt it.

The only thing the military needs to do is dismiss him.  And they are working on that.


----------



## dapaterson

Nope.  Colonel Williams is our Old Yeller - and we have to take him out back (metaphorically speaking) - that's a court martial to denounce him and his conduct.  Don't forget, he assuaulted and murdered a subordinate, based on information he obtained as a superior.  There is a clear military nexus to this case and a clear need for military denunciation of his conduct.

In this case, I suspect Director Military Prosecutions has been given marching orders by much higher.  Unfortunately, in this case, it will be damaging to the institution.


----------



## Remius

Is he really though?  I accept that he is in the military and to make matters worse in an important command role.  But the military didn't make him do the things he did nor did it turn him into the monster he is.  Why should the military take responsibility for his actions?  I think the CF is doing the right thing.  He`s being convicted in civilian court.  The CF is going to dismiss him and strip him of his decorations.  We don`t need a mea-culpa.

Drapeau seems to think that the public support for the military took a hit because of this.  I'm not sure that it has.  I think the public is appalled by what happened but I don't think they are saying were all a bunch of psychos because of the actions of one man.

What benefit would a court martial have?  What if he decides to fight the charges?  What if the Cf bungles the case?  Does the public (and the families) need to be put through more trials?  What if he uses a defence that somehow he has PTSD and the CF should have stopped him or worse he states that he tried to get help but was turned away etc etc.  I think a court martial would do more harm than good.

I will however concede your point about the Director Military Prosecutions and his marching orders.


----------



## ModlrMike

I think the DLaw is correct. He clearly states:



> ...no court martial arising out of the same facts leading to the civilian charges... AND
> ...the National Defence Act specifically prevents an individual from being tried by court martial where the offense or any other substantially similar offense arising out of the same underlying facts have been previously dealt with by a civilian court.



Neither of which precludes a CM for purely Service offences (129, 130 for example). Just the same, I agree with Crantor that the families don't need to be exposed to more pain. We can deal with him through administrative means and achieve the same end.

I've given up paying much attention to what Drapeau has to say. Even if he's close to being in his lane this one time.


----------



## Journeyman

Crantor said:
			
		

> But the military didn't make him do the things he did nor did it turn him into the monster he is.  Why should the military take responsibility for his actions?


The CF would be taking public responsibility for our organization; how can that _possibly_ be interpreted as "we made him this way"?

The civilian world sees "stripping him of his decorations" as "oooh, he's losing his boyscout badges" -- "dismissal with disgrace" however is an expression everyone can understand....and accept as justified without the usual CBC commentariat whining. I personally think it sends a weaker message to the public regarding our professional ethos by saying, "oh, we're dealing with him administratively."

As for the litany of "what if this" or "what if that" -- well, planners and leaders consider contingencies so that they can be mitigated.....at least in my part of the CF anyway.  





> Drapeau seems to think...


Not often or well.


----------



## ModlrMike

There's also the issue that the CF needs to let the current proceedings conclude. It's bad law, not to mention bad professional manners, to have the same defendant at concurrent trials, far too much to go wrong. Once his sentence is passed the CF has a clear shot at him and can act without fear of prejudicing his current trial. Even though he's plead guilty, in law he needs to be found guilty at trial, and sentence needs to be passed. Until that time, the CF should quietly consider any potential case, and have it ready should it be appropriate to proceed.


----------



## OldSolduer

This should cover it:

Section 92 of the National Defence Act:

Every officer who behaves in a scandalous manner unbecoming an officer is guilty of an offence and on conviction shall suffer dismissal with disgrace from Her Majesty’s service or dismissal from Her Majesty’s service


----------



## Remius

Journeyman said:
			
		

> The CF would be taking public responsibility for our organization; how can that _possibly_ be interpreted as "we made him this way"?
> 
> The civilian world sees "stripping him of his decorations" as "oooh, he's losing his boyscout badges" -- "dismissal with disgrace" however is an expression everyone can understand....and accept as justified without the usual CBC commentariat whining. I personally think it sends a weaker message to the public regarding our professional ethos by saying, "oh, we're dealing with him administratively."
> 
> As for the litany of "what if this" or "what if that" -- well, planners and leaders consider contingencies so that they can be mitigated.....at least in my part of the CF anyway.
> 
> 
> Not often or well.



I think that the public would rather see swift action at removing his rank, dismissing him and stripping him of his decorations sooner rather than later.  I don`t think they really want to see a kangaroo court that is going to take longer than it should.  No one wants to hear about why it took the CF two years to try and convict him.  No one wants to see him get another dime of his Colonel's salary or have the right to wear his uniform (which he would at a court martial) ever again.  And the punishment he gets for a 129 or disgraceful conduct would be meaningless anyway.

Agreed about Col Drapeau.


----------



## OldSolduer

Not only must justice be done, it must be seen as being done. 

The criminal trial takes care of the CCC offences.

I firmly beleive, as a long serving military member, that he should be tried under Section 92 of the NDA.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Not only must justice be done, it must be seen as being done.
> 
> The criminal trial takes care of the CCC offences.
> 
> I firmly beleive, as a long serving military member, that he should be tried under Section 92 of the NDA.



You are correct Jim.  Else we all shall possibly be tarred with the same brush in the court of public opinion.   And as this loser is sadly one of us we also should have our pound of flesh.


----------



## OldSolduer

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> You are correct Jim.  Else we all shall possibly be tarred with the same brush in the court of public opinion.   And as this loser is sadly one of us we also should have our pound of flesh.


And there are a few senior officers who could be tried under this. Tangent ends.


----------



## McG

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Lieutenant Colonel MacGregor is clearly in need of a refresher on military law.  There are ample areas under the NDA that could be used to court-martial Colonel Williams without risking double jeopardy, providing a needed military denunciation of him and his conduct.
> 
> For example, fighting with another member of the Canadian Forces (NDA 86) is an offence which carries a punishment of two years imprisonment or less punishment; striking or ill-treating a subordinate (NDA 95) carries the same punishment; and scandalous conduct by an officer (NDA 92) carries a sentence of dismissal with disgrace or dismissal.  And of course, the catch-all of conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline (NDA 129)  could be employed as well.
> 
> A court-martial for Colonel Williams with those charges would not represent double jeopardy as all are uniquely military offences for which he has not been charged under the Criminal Code.  They would provide an opportunity for the Canadian Forces to clearly denounce his behaviour, and reflect the military community’s revulsion at Colonel Williams’ gross failings as a military leader.


I think the way to show we are serious about keeping our house clean is to permanently empower the civilian courts to level a heavier sentance against service personnel who so grossly fail in thier conduct.  As stated in another thread:



			
				MCG said:
			
		

> Personally, I would like to see an amendment to the NDA that empowers civilian criminal courts to add dismissal with disgrace from Her Majesty’s Service for any criminal offence punishable by more than one year imprisonment.  This punishment would be applicable to any CF member, including Class A reservists that would not normally be subject to the NDA at the time of the offence.
> 
> We expect soldiers to uphold the values of the Canadian public, so we may as well empower the criminal courts to eject those who so egregiously fail to do so.


----------



## McG

On "doulbe jeapordy" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Wigglesworth


----------



## readytogo

The old way of punishing criminals (even criminals like Col. Williams, or Paul Bernardo, etc, etc, etc) is outdated.  Eye for an eye does not work.  If it did work or was an effective deterrant for capital offences then why do the Americans and other nations in the world still continue to find people to execute? The death penalty is not stopping people from killing eachother.  IMO a 6x9 cell without windows or exposure to other human beings is the proper way to dispose of convicted murders and those who endanger or do harm to our children.  By committing these crimes Col. Williams has forfeited his charter rights and should be subjected to the above punishment for 23 of 24 hours a day for the rest of his life.  Ending his or any other monsters life makes us no better than him. Civilization must hold itself to a higher moral standard.  My :2c:

Tangent ends


RTG


----------



## OldSolduer

I beg to differ.

While Williams is in prison, even in solitary, he will continue to manipulate and influence the others around him, including corrections officers. I've seen a number of then "turned" by smooth talkers.

Williams would learn....hell he'd do the same.

He can't influence anyone if he's dead.


----------



## Container

readytogo said:
			
		

> The old way of punishing criminals (even criminals like Col. Williams, or Paul Bernardo, etc, etc, etc) is outdated.  Eye for an eye does not work.  If it did work or was an effective deterrant for capital offences then why do the Americans and other nations in the world still continue to find people to execute? The death penalty is not stopping people from killing eachother.  IMO a 6x9 cell without windows or exposure to other human beings is the proper way to dispose of convicted murders and those who endanger or do harm to our children.  By committing these crimes Col. Williams has forfeited his charter rights and should be subjected to the above punishment for 23 of 24 hours a day for the rest of his life.  Ending his or any other monsters life makes us no better than him. Civilization must hold itself to a higher moral standard.  My :2c:
> 
> Tangent ends
> 
> 
> RTG



I think you may have your wires crossed RTG!  ;D

What you have suggested amounts to torture. Humans as a social animal require contact with other human beings. To take that away from them in the manner you have suggested can not be considered the moral high ground! It would be an absolutely miserable death- and really would amount to putting him to death anyways. Just slowly.

It isnt a matter of retribution or of revenge. Its a matter of the protection of the public. I know enough of prisons to know that just because it is said a man will never get out again does not mean that they will never get out again. The fact that I have a wife and a daughter means that I have no interest in keeping gentlemen like these around. They have rejected society and we can not allow them to be present in it anymore! Its amatter of utility. And as such when carried out as a duty cannot be viewed in the same regard as a man breaking in to someones house, choking them to death, and sexually assaulting them.

Banishment to walk the "wastes" would also be acceptable should a suitable place be located. Ala Judge Dredd

As an example of why the suggestion that they be allowed to stay alive and think about their crimes is a non-starter. I believe Clifford Olsen summed it up nicely when asked to disclose the locations of the other victims for the sake of the families.

"If I gave a shit about them I wouldn't have murdered their kids".

We can't look at it like we would for a reasonable person.


----------



## readytogo

Fair enough,

             Perhaps I went a little to far to the extreme with permenant solitary confinement, I also have a wife and 2 children (1 daughter) and I cant imagine what I would think if someone like Col. Williams were to be "introduced" into our lives.  I just dont see how killing another human being solves the issue, maybe there isnt a solution?? That being said if my wife or children came into contact with someone like Col. Williams perhaps my tune would change drastically? My point was that we as a society have had monsters walk among us, some we have caught, some we have executed, some still walk among us(im sure anyway) I agree protection is the key but it seems we kill a crazy and another one is standin in line to take his place????


----------



## old medic

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101020/williams_confession_101020/

CTV.ca News Staff
20 October 2010 4:33 PM ET




> Disgraced Col. Russell Williams wrote a letter to the mother of one of his murder victims, saying that her daughter loved her very much because she "told me so again and again," a court heard on Wednesday.
> 
> The letter was presented in a Belleville, Ont. courtroom, during Williams's sentencing hearing for a string of fetish break-ins, two sexual assaults and two murders.
> 
> In the letter to the mother of Jessica Lloyd, who he confessed to sexually assaulting and killing last January, Williams said Lloyd had no idea he was going to kill her because "she believed she was going home."
> 
> In another letter, the former commander of CFB Trenton apologized to his wife for "having hurt you like this," and asked her to take care of their cat, Rosie. He signed off the letter with, "I love you, Russ."
> 
> On Tuesday, Williams was formally convicted of first-degree murder in the deaths of Lloyd and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, the sexual assault of two other victims and 82 fetish break-ins during which he stole thousands of articles of women's and girls' underwear.
> 
> On Wednesday afternoon, friends and family members of the victims, as well as women who had personal items stolen during the break-ins, spoke in court about how they have been hurt by Williams's crimes.
> 
> Justice Robert Scott, who is presiding over the proceedings, instructed the media to only use the first names of those giving victim-impact statements.
> 
> A friend named Lisa said Lloyd had looked forward to being a wife and mother, and said her friend's death has "completely diminished" her faith in God.
> 
> "How could he create such a monster? The very person whose job it was to protect my country was terrorizing my community," Lisa said while holding a photograph of Lloyd.
> 
> Earlier Wednesday, the court viewed an edited version of the video of Williams's cold and methodical confession to police.
> 
> Several hours into the interview, which took place after police picked him up in connection to the murders of Lloyd and Comeau, Williams seemed to realize he was caught.
> 
> "I guess it's wide open now. What do you want to know?" he asks investigators.
> 
> In a matter-of-fact manner, Williams then detailed the gruesome murder of Lloyd, a 27-year-old woman who worked at a bus company in Napanee.
> 
> He described breaking into her home and attacking her in her bed.
> 
> "I raped her," Williams said in the video.
> 
> "A rape can mean a lot of things. What took place?" the investigator countered.
> 
> Williams then went on to describe in painstaking detail the various ways he assaulted Lloyd, how he threatened her and placed zip ties around her neck to control her. He also described to police how he made Lloyd model underwear, and photographed her as she did so.
> 
> Williams said he then took her to Tweed, where he lived. The day-and-a-half-long nightmare continued with numerous rapes, photo sessions and eventually with Lloyd suffering seizures, begging for her life.
> 
> Williams, after telling Lloyd he was taking her to the hospital, finally seemed to tire of the cruel game.
> 
> "And as we were walking ... I hit her on the back of the head," he told investigators in the video, in which he often referred to her by her first name as though they were friends.
> 
> "I was surprised that her skull gave way. She was immediately unconscious and I strangled her."
> 
> After that Williams explained that he hid Lloyd's body in his garage and went to work because he was flying a military plane to California early the next day. He later returned to get rid of her body and clean up the mess.
> 
> Cpl. Marie-France Comeau
> 
> In the video shown to the courtroom, Williams also described the murder of Comeau, pronouncing her name with the correct French accent.
> 
> He admitted breaking into Comeau's home and hiding in her basement, waiting for her to fall asleep, and how she came down to the basement in search of her cat.
> 
> "So when she spotted me I had the same flashlight (and) subdued her, brought her upstairs and, uh, strangled her, well more suffocated her with some tape," he said.
> 
> Later in the video he admitted raping and photographing Comeau.
> 
> Williams, who was commander of the CFB Trenton airbase at the time of the murders, explained in the video that he used duct tape to cover Comeau's mouth and nose, until she suffocated.
> 
> "I had thought about strangling her earlier...it was a short-lived attempt because she struggled quite a bit. So I decided I had to suffocate her," he said.
> 
> The reason he murdered her, he said, was that there was an obvious link to an assault he had committed on a woman who lived near him in Tweed.
> 
> When asked by investigators whether he would have continued to commit murders and sexual assaults if he hadn't been caught, Williams was ambiguous.
> 
> "I was hoping not. I can't answer that question," he said.
> 
> Concern for wife, Canadian Forces
> 
> Earlier in the video, after being told his two houses were being searched, Williams told his interrogators his main concern was the effect it would have on his wife and the Canadian Forces.
> 
> "I'm struggling with how upset my wife is right now," Williams said. "I'm concerned that they are tearing apart my wife's brand new home."
> 
> It was a road-side check that brought Williams to the attention of investigators after they matched his tire tread to one found near Lloyd's home. They quickly connected him also to Comeau's murder.
> 
> In the video he asks if he can assume that officers will be discreet, and says he is concerned about "the impact this is going to have on the Canadian Forces."
> 
> Statement of facts
> 
> Over the first two days of his sentencing hearing, the prosecution meticulously went through all of the charges against Williams, reading the agreed statement of facts and showing photos -- some taken by Williams himself and others taken by forensic investigators.
> 
> Late Tuesday afternoon, the judge had enough evidence to register a formal conviction against Williams on first-degree murder, sexual assault and break and enter and theft charges. He has pleaded guilty to all the charges against him.
> 
> Once the victim impact statements were completed, court adjourned for the day. The judge is expected to deliver his sentence on Thursday.


----------



## 57Chevy

readytogo said:
			
		

> The old way of punishing criminals (even criminals like Col. Williams, or Paul Bernardo, etc, etc, etc) is outdated.  Eye for an eye does not work.  If it did work or was an effective deterrant for capital offences then why do the Americans and other nations in the world still continue to find people to execute? The death penalty is not stopping people from killing eachother.  IMO a 6x9 cell without windows or exposure to other human beings is the proper way to dispose of convicted murders and those who endanger or do harm to our children.  By committing these crimes Col. Williams has forfeited his charter rights and should be subjected to the above punishment for 23 of 24 hours a day for the rest of his life.  Ending his or any other monsters life makes us no better than him. Civilization must hold itself to a higher moral standard.  My :2c:
> 
> Tangent ends RTG



Ends  ???

He thoroughly deserves the firing squad.
Somewhere in military law is found, or should be found, the ultimate punishment for such heinous act commited by such high ranking officers. And that military law.......if it so still exists anywhere in the heirarchy of Her Majesty should overwhelmingly prevail over any and all other courts.
So YES......The Canadian Military should have a hell of alot more to say in this matter. And it should go much farther. And by that I mean to the very top. A Royal Matter, because allegiance is made to the Queen

Every soldier below his gained rank would have looked up to him as being an unquestionable good example of a senior
military officer normally found within our armed forces, and would have undoubtedly saluted him !
And that salute was to his commission or to the Queen.
And commissionned officers are required to be and behave in an exemplary fashion at all times.
That does not mean that NCOs should be found less 'exemplary' (however ;D)
But Willy, as I will call him, is the definition of disgrace to the uniform.
And many a soldier has stood the squad for much much less.

We as soldiers and veterans like myself will not stand for this kind of crap finding their way to the high echelons
of our armed forces.
It is expected that punishment for his crimes are dealt with by the highest authority due to the fact that he is
of such a distinguished rank.
And that authority should place him standing blindfolded.

And those who find weakness in their knees should gird themselves.
Military Justice should prevail.
My :2c:
57C


----------



## krustyrl

Well said 57Chevy......  in total agreeance.


----------



## vonGarvin

readytogo said:
			
		

> Fair enough,
> 
> Perhaps I went a little to far to the extreme with permenant solitary confinement, I also have a wife and 2 children (1 daughter) and I cant imagine what I would think if someone like Col. Williams were to be "introduced" into our lives.  I just dont see how killing another human being solves the issue, maybe there isnt a solution?? That being said if my wife or children came into contact with someone like Col. Williams perhaps my tune would change drastically? My point was that we as a society have had monsters walk among us, some we have caught, some we have executed, some still walk among us(im sure anyway) I agree protection is the key but it seems we kill a crazy and another one is standin in line to take his place????


This is a good counter argument to capital punishment.  It wouldn't be a deterrent to guys like Williams, Bernardo, et al; it would be pure punishment to avoid the drain on society that he will become (imprisonment, feeding, medical treatment, etc) for xxx years.  It's a tough choice to reinstate capital punishment, and it would take a lot of debate.


----------



## mariomike

That photo reminds me of what Dallas homicide detective Jim Leaville said to Lee Harvey Oswald: "Lee, if anybody shoots at you, I hope they're as good a shot as you are."
( They were hand-cuffed to each other. )


----------



## Nfld Sapper

News Room
Clarification Regarding The Military Justice System And Military Pension
MA-10.098 - October 20, 2010

OTTAWA ─ The judicial process surrounding Colonel Williams has generated a great deal of public interest on a number of issues related to the management of military personnel and the military justice system. Unfortunately, some defence analysts have provided the media with incorrect interpretations of the law.  This note is intended to offer news editors and reporters clarification on the following two points:

Colonel Russell Williams cannot be tried by court martial.  Some analysts on National Defence matters suggest that Colonel Williams should also be tried through a military court martial in addition to the ongoing civilian justice proceedings. To suggest this possibility is simply wrong in law. This is because Section 66 of the National Defence Act specifically prevents an individual from being tried by court martial where the offense, or any other substantially similar offense arising out of the same underlying facts, have been previously dealt with by a civilian court. This basic principle, often referred to as “Double jeopardy”, is fundamental within our civilian and military justice systems. Editors and reporters are invited to consult Section 66 of the National Defence Act at: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/N-5/page-3.html#codese:66 

The Canadian Forces cannot remove Colonel Williams’ pension.  The Canadian Forces Superannuation Act determines a member’s pension entitlement upon release. Entitlements are calculated based on years of service and earnings, and are not affected by the type of release from the military, whether he is convicted by a civilian court or a military court martial or the sentence. Editors and reporters are invited to consult the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act at: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/N-5/page-3.html#codese:66 

Additionally, with Colonel Williams’ conviction now confirmed by the court, the CF are in a position move ahead with the following actions:

the prompt release of Colonel Williams from the armed forces; 
the termination and recovery of his pay from the date of arrest; 
the removal of his medals; 
and other measures to be determined.


----------



## jollyjacktar

readytogo said:
			
		

> The old way of punishing criminals (even criminals like Col. Williams, or Paul Bernardo, etc, etc, etc) is outdated.  Eye for an eye does not work.  If it did work or was an effective deterrant for capital offences then why do the Americans and other nations in the world still continue to find people to execute? The death penalty is not stopping people from killing eachother.  IMO a 6x9 cell without windows or exposure to other human beings is the proper way to dispose of convicted murders and those who endanger or do harm to our children.  By committing these crimes Col. Williams has forfeited his charter rights and should be subjected to the above punishment for 23 of 24 hours a day for the rest of his life.  Ending his or any other monsters life makes us no better than him. Civilization must hold itself to a higher moral standard.  My :2c:
> 
> Tangent ends



Bollocks!! It may indeed not be a deterrent, but, BUT, it will prevent a second occurrence.   Take for example the sad case in Texas that made the papers the past week.   The subject killed another 6 people including his brother and nieces and nephews.  This after already spending years in jail for another killing.  Gingras, another killer who escaped to kill again.  Bernardo, Olsen and Picton are not redeemable nor I wager Williams.  Rope is cheap and reusable.  Bugger spending big tax dollars on housing these assholes.  There are plenty of victims who have been taken by killers getting a second chance.  Screw them!!  They are a danger to society, and society comes first.   :2c:


----------



## 57Chevy

From your article NFLD Sapper:
Quote:
"and other measures to be determined" 

As I stated earlier.....those measures should include an input from the much higher authority.

My thoughts ;D


----------



## tomahawk6

Bring back the death penalty for this type of crime. Maybe the inmates will pass judgement on him so that these girls get justice.


----------



## OldSolduer

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Bring back the death penalty for this type of crime. Maybe the inmates will pass judgement on him so that these girls get justice.



He'll be in segregation and when he's out of his cell, no other inmate will be.


----------



## krustyrl

....he should have to deal with "internal" (prison) justice IMHO , none of this segregation BS.! .


----------



## Another Mom

I  had a chance to see the raw footage of Williams confession. To  me,  while he tried to hide it at first, he seems honest  in telling all and ready to face the consequences.   He almost seems confused himself that he  committed the crimes he did and perhaps he is confused that he has no remorse.   Perhaps he could be useful to psychiatrists and psychologists in learning how the mind works in a person who can commit such heinous crimes.   Was he disassociating?  Did he have OCD?   Punishment is necessary so that he never hurts anyone again, but equally important is trying to  get clues that can be used to prevent another person from acting on their impulses. Maybe he can help.


----------



## PuckChaser

krustyrl said:
			
		

> ....he should have to deal with "internal" (prison) justice IMHO , none of this segregation BS.! .



There are some stats floating around that said Bernardo wouldn't last an hour in gen pop. Same could probably be said for Williams. Not so much prison justice, but you get cool points for being the guy that shanked a famous person.


----------



## the 48th regulator

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> There are some stats floating around that said Bernardo wouldn't last an hour in gen pop. Same could probably be said for Williams. Not so much prison justice, but you get cool points for being the guy that shanked a famous person.



Serial killers murdered in prison

Could the killer colonel be destined for Kingston Pen?




> Bernardo faced death threats from other convicts as soon as he arrived at Kingston Pen in November 1995.
> He was assaulted twice in his first year at the prison. He was sucker punched by an inmate while returning to his segregation unit cell and on another occasion he was drenched by mop water thrown through the bars of his cell.
> After that incident, a Plexiglas front was installed to shield him. Most inmates in the segregation unit spend 23 hours a day locked in their cells. They have no contact with the other 400 inmates in the prison.




dileas

tess


----------



## Journeyman

> Bernardo.....was drenched by mop water thrown through the bars of his cell.


 :crybaby:

I guess the general population aren't as hard-core as we'd like to believe.


----------



## vonGarvin

Mods.
This thread has jumped the shark.  Can we please lock it?  There is no merit in continuing this discussion.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Mods.
> This thread has jumped the shark.  Can we please lock it?  There is no merit in continuing this discussion.



Really?  So _you_ have unilaterally decided that people can't voice their disgust and revulsion about Deviant Williams? IMO let people purge.  That is the only way that we as an organization can get past this sort of thing.


----------



## Thompson_JM

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Really?  So _you_ have unilaterally decided that people can't voice their disgust and revulsion about Deviant Williams? IMO let people purge.  That is the only way that we as an organization can get past this sort of thing.



I'm with Zipperhead on this one...... The news about Williams gets more and more horrifying each day, as if he finds a new way to turn into an even greater monster with each detail revealed.... 

Where exactly are we supposed to discuss our thoughts and feelings on this creature..... I call him that, because it's hard to fathom that he is Human.... a normal human doesnt do things like this.....


----------



## vonGarvin

I am just sick of hearing of him, that is all.  I get it: he's a monster.  I just feel that he is still winning, in that we have 29 + pages on this sick bastard, when instead couldn't we just let it go?  They have him, he's off to jail, and in this thread I see some comments advocating "jailhouse justice".  As I understand it, killing someone because of what they did, not because of current threat to life or limb, is still a crime in this country.  I may advocate the death penalty, but as a rational decision by the state, not by "mob rules".

And I have decided nothing, I just recommend that we stop talking about this monster.  Anyway, it's quite obvious that I am in the minority here, so instead I will avoid this thread.


----------



## Edward Campbell

Like the TECHNOVIKING I am sick of Russell Williams. I am sick of the constant repetitions of his depravity. But mainly, I suppose, I am sick at heart that someone who purported to share *my values* and *my ethos* could have done these things - especially (and I do not mean in any way at all to suggests that each of his victims didn't suffer horribly) to a subordinate member of the CF.

I'm guessing that the psychiatrists and psychologists will have their hands full with Williams because I'm also guessing that he is, in some meaningful way, insane. Surely, sane people do not attend the Royal Military College, do not become pilots, do not rise to command a squadron and then Canada's largest Air Force base and, at the same time, _morph_ into serial sex offenders; right?

Don't bother closing the thread. Let people vent - that's what I'm doing; but I will be so glad when we turn our attention to more pleasant, even sensible and comprehensible matters like terrorism, global mayhem and the next war.


----------



## The Bread Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Like the TECHNOVIKING I am sick of Russell Williams. I am sick of the constant repetitions of his depravity. But mainly, I suppose, I am sick at heart that someone who purported to share *my values* and *my ethos* could have done these things - especially (and I do not mean in any way at all to suggests that each of his victims didn't suffer horribly) to a subordinate member of the CF.


Here here.



			
				E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> .... I will be so glad when we turn our attention to more pleasant, even sensible and comprehensible matters like terrorism, global mayhem and the next war.


I truly don't miss cable TV access at a time like this.


----------



## OldSolduer

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> There are some stats floating around that said Bernardo wouldn't last an hour in gen pop. Same could probably be said for Williams. Not so much prison justice, but you get cool points for being the guy that shanked a famous person.



There is a hierarchy in the prison system. Cop killers are near the top, child molesters aka "kiddy diddlers" are near the bottom. Williams will be most likely near the bottom due to his posing in teenage
girls underwear etc and his "celebrity" status.
In my former employment as a Corrections Officer, I had the chance to meet an inmate who punched Bernardo. He was regaled in the con system as a bit of a hero. Not only that, several people sent him cardsand money.
Williams is destined for segregation.


----------



## krustyrl

As for closing this thread. In my opinion it would be unwise at this point in time.  Having been posted to 8Wg during that time period and now much further away, I read how others are putting their thoughts and opinions to screen (or paper) .  Knowing there are plenty others who are just as pi$$ed-shocked-irritated (the list goes on...) as I am and feel somewhat let down by RW's actions yet the whole thing still burns in peoples mind.
I'm sure this thread will peter off as time passes but until then maybe we should use this as a sounding board and let some vent. I'm sure the mods are hovering to see that nothing out of context gets posted on here due to the extreme frustration of some, myself included.

Thanks      :2c:


----------



## Container

As an aside- Williams behavior was text book dirt bag duiring the interview. I recall an MLA I was investigating for sexual assault as demonstrating the same- the requests for discretion and the statements that he would cooperate in whatever way he could to clear himself.

Then when confronted with evidence of his involvement the long pause and then the honest cooperation once the goose is cooked. But only once he figures out that he is fried either way.

It was about as ernest as the disgusting letters he wrote the family members.


----------



## McG

All,
Remember to be mindful of this site's tone & content guidelines.  We do not tolerate the proposals of extra-judicial killings, beatings, or other acts of criminal malice against any persons (regardless of how despicable those persons may be).  End it now.

Cheers, 
The Staff


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Technoviking said:
			
		

> And I have decided nothing, I just recommend that we stop talking about this monster.  Anyway, it's quite obvious that I am in the minority here, so instead I will avoid this thread.



I hear what you're saying TV.  I too will be glad when this thing fades into obscurity and he is just another number behind a door.  However, recall that prior to him being sentenced people were being somewhat gagged as to what they could get away with saying ie) "He is innocent until proven guilty..." so the opinions are only just being unleashed now.  
But yes, stating how much he sucks is somewhat redundant at this point.


----------



## OldSolduer

I'm sick of this guy as well, plus all the coverage he's received.


----------



## Thompson_JM

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> ...But mainly, I suppose, I am sick at heart that someone who purported to share *my values* and *my ethos* could have done these things - especially (and I do not mean in any way at all to suggests that each of his victims didn't suffer horribly) to a subordinate member of the CF.



+1

That's exactly how I feel... 

I'm Glad this Monster has been sentenced, and with any luck this will start to fade away within a week or so....  


*edited for spelling*


----------



## Brutus

I'm glad he was finally sentenced and this horrible story can start to fade.

As a Canadian, I'm sad and feel pity for the families of his victims as well as this monster's wife and kids.

As a soldier, I am very angry that an imposter such as this pretended to uphold our values and ethics, while at the same time destroying the lives of so many. I am disgusted that his acts and our organization can be mentioned in the same breath.

Good ridance to you and may your victims and your family find some peace.


----------



## mariomike

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I'm sick of this guy as well, plus all the coverage he's received.



"It sells papers.":
"How a sensational and sexist press hyped hysteria in the summer of '82":
http://www.rrj.ca/m3569/

"It's the old chicken and egg thing. Does the public get whipped into a frenzy by the media, or does the media just pick up on the frenzy already out there? It may not be a good use of the press, but that's the nature of the beast."


An editorial in the Star described the victims as "a cheerleader, a nanny, a mother and a bride-to-be.":
http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/T/TORONTO_RAPE_slayer.php


----------



## mike63

I only have three words for that POS...

"Welcome To Kingston!"
"Enjoy Your Stay!"
"Check Your Six!"

Mike
Kingston ON


----------



## krustyrl

:nod:


----------



## gaspasser

I highly doubt he'll have to keep a check on his 6...he'll never be in general pop, like Bernardo...he'd be shanked in seconds~~~Mind you...it would save the taxpayers a few bucks each year.
I'm glad this guy is off the streets, out of our hair and we can continue on with life and serving the Canadian People~~


----------



## Kat Stevens

mike63 said:
			
		

> I only have three words for that POS...
> 
> "Welcome To Kingston!"
> "Enjoy Your Stay!"
> "Check Your Six!"
> 
> Mike
> Kingston ON



That's nine words.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

This makes ZERO sense to me:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/101021/national/colonel_murder_charge


> The Crown didn't seek dangerous offender status, however, saying it was "superfluous" given his life sentence and would only prolong the suffering of families.



1.  Since we as a society continue to hurdle towards more and more political correctness and huggy/feely-everyone-is-special crap in this country, what is the landscape going to look like in 2035?  IMO that was a MASSIVE mistake.

2.  I'm not seeing how the DO status would have any negative affect on the families.  It only makes certain that he stays in jail for good.  Unless the whole system of getting the status is so flawed and useless that they can't even be bothered trying?


----------



## dogger1936

One thing that wasnt thrown out there. Big BZ to the OPP officers who looked past the man and didnt let the big guy just pass on through that checkpoint for who he was. Excellent police work!


----------



## OldSolduer

Zipperhead - Crown attorneys don't see things the way we do, do they?

Dogger I agree....no one has mentioned what a good job the OPP did.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Zipperhead - Crown attorneys don't see things the way we do, do they?



As we were told in our in service training last year by the chief crown: "The Crown's office and the police are not on the same team.  We do not work together.  It is not the Crown's job to make a case better than it is".  

And yes, the O-dots knocked it out of the ball park with some good old fashioned police work and a big heads up play at roadside.  Patrol for life, baby!!  ;D


----------



## mariomike

"Lewis promises OPP will learn from Williams investigation":
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/10/21/15782711.html

"In fact, Massicotte saves her harshest words for the police, convinced that the cops could have done more to stop her attacker before he climbed through her window. Hours after her assault, an OPP investigator told her what is now a well-known fact. “He said: ‘Laurie, we have a confession to make,’ ” she recalls. “ ‘Apparently, 12 days ago this same situation happened to a girl just down the road from you. We’re really sorry we didn’t get it out to the public, but I can tell you right now we’re putting out a release and it will be on tomorrow’s news.’ ”
For Laurie Massicotte, the OPP “safety alert” came a day too late.":
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/10/05/surviving-colonel-williams/
( Says she may sue the OPP on page 4. )

"Victim slams police in Col. Williams case":
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/90764/post-929387/topicseen.html#msg929387
( Reply #213 )

"Evidence in Williams case to be destroyed": 
http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2810464

"Burgess noted the Pathfinder used to transport Lloyd's body is "going to be crushed."

"Police confirm payment made for damage to Williams' home after search warrant: BELLEVILLE, Ont. - Ontario taxpayers footed the bill to repair the floors of convicted sex killer Col. Russell Williams' Ottawa home after police searched it for evidence.":
http://www.canadaeast.com/front/article/1273211


----------



## OldSolduer

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> As we were told in our in service training last year by the chief crown: "The Crown's office and the police are not on the same team.  We do not work together.  It is not the Crown's job to make a case better than it is".



From what I see, the Crowns are more interested in putting cops away. 

Besides, the "justice system" isn't a system....its an industry.


----------



## mariomike

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Besides, the "justice system" isn't a system....its an industry.



"Innocent until proven broke."  

Sun:
"If capital punishment were still on the books, a high-noon lynching today of Russell Williams — disgraced colonel, convicted murderer, rapist and sexual deviant — would likely cause little stir among the majority of Canadians.":
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/mark_bonokoski/2010/10/21/15783496.html

"Russell Williams is now 47. If he lives to be 80, and without bringing inflation into play, it will cost taxpayers almost $4.9 million for his room and board."


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Besides, the "justice system" isn't a system....its an industry.



We just call it the "legal" system


----------



## krustyrl

Seen on CTVNewsnet the locals on Cosy Cove Lane in Tweed would like to see his house torn down to close their chapter.  Not sure how THAT would work.?


----------



## SeaKingTacco

Get a bulldozer?


----------



## Oh No a Canadian

What does happen to ones property when they are sentence to such a long sentence?

Edit: I forgot he is married. I guess the property will go to her, not that she would want to live their.


----------



## MP 811

krustyrl said:
			
		

> Seen on CTVNewsnet the locals on Cosy Cove Lane in Tweed would like to see his house torn down to close their chapter.  Not sure how THAT would work.?



Probably the same way it worked when they tore down Bernardo's house in St Chatherines.


----------



## dapaterson

Oh No a Canadian said:
			
		

> What does happen to ones property when they are sentence to such a long sentence?
> 
> Edit: I forgot he is married. I guess the property will go to her, not that she would want to live their.



Actually, they had some sort of legal agreement to split their property and other assets while in jail; I suspect she has renounced all claims to the Tweed house, and he all claims to the Ottawa house.


----------



## old medic

No answers forthcoming for families of William's victims
Adrian Humphreys, National Post · Thursday, Oct. 21, 2010
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/answers+forthcoming+families+William+victims/3708353/story.html



> Belleville, Ont. • Colonel Russell Williams left court under the scrutiny of an Ontario Provincial Police tactical squad yesterday afternoon for the 82-kilometre drive to Kingston Penitentiary, where he will not only settle into a protected cell to serve his life sentence but also take his place as “one of the worst offenders in Canadian history.”
> 
> The dramatic end to one of the most perplexing and troubling criminal cases — in which a decorated and respected military officer commanding Canada’s largest air force base transformed himself into a degenerate killer and sexual predator — came in profound words that explained why the case has left a mark but offered no answer as to how it could have happened.
> 
> “Because of Russell Williams we are a community where women now feel unsafe in their homes and where their spouses, their families and friends feel unsafe at leaving them alone. One might think the capture of the perpetrator might start to alleviate that fear, but for many people it has not,” said Crown Attorney Lee Burgess in the prosecution’s closing address.
> 
> “Rather, many people look at what this man’s station and stature was in society and ask: ‘How can I ever feel safe in my home?’ ”
> 
> There was no doubt about the sentence Williams, 47, would receive — his guilty plea to two first-degree murders required a life sentence without chance of parole for 25 years — but what answers and explanations might be offered was the haunting question for all lining up for yesterday’s highly anticipated appearance.
> 
> And while some of Williams’ many victims were grateful to see him humiliated, vilified and punished, they left court without satisfaction, even after a dramatic statement delivered by Williams himself, who stood and sobbed his way through a message that lasted precisely four minutes, his first since his shocking double life was revealed.
> 
> “I stand before you, Your Honour, indescribably ashamed,” he began.
> 
> Williams then acknowledged the pain his crimes have caused, mentioning by name four women: Marie-France Comeau, 37, and Jessica Lloyd, 27, whom he raped, tortured and murdered; and two women he forcibly confined and sexually assaulted.
> 
> “The understandable hatred that was expressed yesterday and that has been palpable throughout the week has me recognize that most will find it impossible to accept, but the fact is, I very deeply regret what I have done and the harm I know I have caused to many.
> 
> “I have committed despicable crimes, Your Honour, and in the process betraying my family, my friends and colleagues and the Canadian Forces.”
> 
> The theme of betrayal, as well as brutality, resonated throughout a moving submission from Mr. Burgess that was, uncharacteristically for Canadian courts, greeted by rousing applause.
> 
> “What makes it more despicable is this was a man who was above reproach. That a man with this nature could commit such monstrosities really makes you feel that the world is no longer a safe place, no matter where you are,” he said.
> 
> “In addition to the fear he instilled, he transformed this community because he betrayed this community, and he betrayed the military and he betrayed the men and women who honourably serve the military.
> 
> “The armed forces appointed him a colonel and the head of the country’s largest air force base. He would be seen as a leader on that base and in this community.
> 
> “He exploited that to help divert suspicion from himself and, no doubt, he laughed at us as he lived the life of great community leader by day and that of a serial criminal by night.”
> 
> Court heard how Williams photographed his sexual assault of a woman on Sept. 17, 2009, invaded another home on Sept. 18 in one of his 84 fetish burglaries in which women’s and girls’ underwear were befouled and stolen, and then, on Sept. 19, dropped the ceremonial face-off puck at a Belleville, Ont., hockey game.
> 
> Court heard how he had beaten, raped and murdered Ms. Comeau, a corporal stationed at CFB Trenton, on Sept. 24, 2009, and a few weeks later, was cheered through town as he carried the Olympic Torch on behalf of the men and women stationed at the base.
> 
> Court heard how he had attended the swearing-in ceremony of the city’s deputy chief of police, chatting with the senior police command and other dignitaries on Jan. 5, already a killer and predator, and then, just 24 days later, kidnapped, raped and murdered Ms. Lloyd.
> 
> “That the victims suffered trauma at the hands of Mr. Williams is an understatement,” said Mr. Burgess.
> 
> “They were violated not only by this man’s hands but by his lens. Their lives were ended for no more reason than the sexual gratification of this man.
> 
> “Russell Williams is simply one of the worst offenders, ever, in Canadian history. He is one of the handful of despicable, heinous, self-centred individuals who terrorized and traumatized victims and killed some of his victims without a shred of remorse.”
> 
> Even Williams’ defence lawyer, Michael Edelson, could find little good to say about his client.
> 
> “As defence counsel for Mr. Williams, we acknowledge that the Crown’s presentation of the evidence against him with its graphic descriptions, disturbing photographs and chilling narratives of his sinister crimes has left a deep and indelible mark on everyone associated with this case,” he told Justice Robert Scott.
> 
> When passing judgment on Williams, Judge Scott was also left with the mystery of how the elite pilot who had flown the Queen, Prime Minister and other dignitaries during their official travels could suddenly embark on such a dark path.
> 
> “The depths of the depravity demonstrated by Russell Williams have no equal,” the judge said.
> 
> “One suspects that he has contained for most of his adult life sexual desires and fetishes. However, in 2007, these inner thoughts began to control his private actions, pushing him deeper and deeper into criminal behaviour, which culminated in the brutal and senseless murders of two innocents.
> 
> “Russell Williams lived a charmed life — the best of education, a leader of men and women, a respected rising star in our beloved armed forces. His double life fooled most people.
> 
> “Russell Williams’ fall from grace has been swift and sure.”
> 
> Outside court, a large contingent of Ms. Lloyd’s family and friends, some of whom had made emotional victim impact statements in court on Wednesday, were as satisfied as could be in such circumstances.
> 
> “As long as he dies in jail, I’m happy,” said Andy Lloyd, Ms. Lloyd’s brother. “This is the best thing that’s happened to our family since this stuff has happened…. We just want to be normal again.”
> 
> At CFB Trenton yesterday, the base where Williams once commanded 3,000 men and women, it was announced that he will face a military court martial to strip him of his rank and his decorations and force him to pay back salary he has continued to collect since his arrest on Feb. 7.
> 
> It will strip him of the four yellow stripes on the cuffs of the blue air force uniform he was so often pictured in during his ceremonial duties.
> 
> The image of the crisp uniform and smart salutes Williams once embraced has been replaced by the haunting and preposterous photographs released in court, self-portraits he took of himself masturbating in little girls’ underwear and women’s lacy bras.
> 
> “I shall spend the rest of my life regretting above all that I have ended two vibrant, innocent and cherished lives,” he told Judge Scott.


----------



## old medic

Killer colonel in isolation unit at jail
By ROB TRIPP, QMI Agency
21 Oct 2010
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/10/21/15784131.html


> KINGSTON, Ont. - Killer Russell Williams was moved Thursday into a segregation cell equipped with a camera in an isolation unit inside Kingston Penitentiary.
> 
> QMI Agency has learned that the former Trenton airbase commander was placed in a cell in what is known as the prison's dissociation unit, a segregation facility usually reserved for convicts who are being punished or who have been involved in prison violence.
> 
> Williams is being watched closely for signs of suicidal behaviour, conduct that would not be considered unusual for a man who has just been sentenced to life behind bars, but also because Williams staged an elaborate suicide attempt while he was imprisoned at Quinte Detention Centre in Napanee awaiting the outcome of his legal case.
> 
> Williams is now a cellmate of another once-respected man in uniform turned killer, Richard Wills. Wills, a former Toronto police officer, was convicted in 2007 of murdering his mistress, a 40-year-old woman whose body was found sealed in a large plastic garbage container in the basement of Wills's home four months after she disappeared. Wills is also housed in the Kingston Pen dissociation unit.
> 
> Ensuring Williams's safety is now a priority job for the prison's managers, including new warden, Jay Pyke, who officially took charge of Canada's oldest penitentiary Monday in a ceremony held inside the limestone fortress on the shore of Lake Ontario.
> 
> Earlier this month, former warden Tom Epp told QMI Agency that Corrections Canada bosses would have developed a plan to ensure Williams' safety.
> 
> They are professionals, he said, who know that there is outrage over his crimes and a community thirst for retribution, as there has been with other notorious killers.
> 
> "The worst thing you can do I think in a prison is believe that somehow you're the agent of the punishment that's been meted out by the courts, or more importantly, you're the agent for the meting out of the punishment that the society wants you to mete out," Epp said.
> 
> He said he heard a familiar refrain while he was in charge of Kingston Pen, which then housed child sex killer Clifford Olson.
> 
> "There's people meeting me in the street and saying, 'Just put him on the yard for a few minutes and let nature take its course.'
> 
> "Well, nice visceral, sort of atavistic response to crime ... but of course I didn't have that mandate; I had the opposite mandate, keep him alive."
> 
> Epp said even the most vile offenders can circulate among some other prisoners in a place such as Kingston Pen, where there are many similar deviants.
> 
> While convicts who commit sex crimes are considered the lowest in the social pecking order in Canada's penitentiaries, they co-exist in some prisons where there are large numbers of them, like Kingston Pen and in medium-security Warkworth Institution in Campbellford.
> 
> Kingston Pen has been home to infamous sex slayer Paul Bernardo for 15 years. He is held in a super-secure segregation unit along with other notorious killers like Michael Briere, who raped and dismembered 10-year-old Holly Jones in Toronto in 2003. Bernardo does not have any contact with the other 400 convicts at Kingston Penitentiary. Whenever Bernardo leaves his isolated cellblock, all other movement in the prison is halted.
> 
> Depending on assessments by prison staff, Williams could end up in Bernardo's cellblock.
> 
> He'll be subject to psychological screening and assessments of his escape risk and the danger he might pose to others inside the prison, particularly female staff. Female correctional officers work in all sections of the 175-year-old prison.
> 
> Kingston Pen held a private, staff-only ceremony Thursday, to mark the prison's anniversary, on the same day that Williams arrived.
> 
> "I would like to extend my sincere congratulations to Kingston Penitentiary for reaching such a significant milestone," CSC commissioner Don Head said, in an internal message to prison staff this week.


----------



## old medic

Neighbours want Russell Williams' cottage torn down
The Canadian Press
21 Oct 2010


> Several neighbours -- some whose homes were burglarized by Col. Russell Williams -- want the sex killer's cottage in Tweed, Ont., knocked to the ground just as Paul Bernardo's house of horrors was in Port Dalhousie, Ont.
> 
> The cottage is where Jessica Lloyd, 27, spent her last moments alive being raped and tortured by Williams.
> 
> The man who once flew the Governor General broke into Lloyd's Belleville, Ont., home in January, sexually attacking her before abducting her to his cottage where he kept her for a day as his sex slave before murdering her.
> 
> His next-door neighbour on eastern Ontario's Cosy Cove Lane, Monique Murdoch, is among those who think the cottage that Williams and his wife bought in 2004 should be razed.
> 
> The former commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton broke into Murdoch's home three times. The first time was in September 2007 in what was the first of the colonel's 82 fetish break-and-enters. .............



continues at link
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101021/russell-williams-cottage-101021/


----------



## dogger1936

What about his wife? Me and my wife/ family were talking about this today. Is it possiable she didnt have a clue? If I was hiding harddrives and womens underwear all around my house, my wife would know. However I'm sure the police have looked into her role as well, it just doesnt make sense to me or my wife how he could get away with the erratic behaviour needed to "dissapear" and break into houses etc while in ottawa. And again the stuff hidden in the house.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

old medic said:
			
		

> Killer colonel in isolation unit at jail
> By ROB TRIPP, QMI Agency
> 21 Oct 2010
> http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/10/21/15784131.html



Other than the title (which the writer may not have had control over) it's nice to see an article that doesn't refer to him by rank.  Just killer.


----------



## jollyjacktar

I am disappointed that the sentence was concurrent and not consecutive.  He should be doing one and then the other 25 yr stretch.  That would keep him out of it for 50.  I don't trust the system not to let him off his leash one day down the road.


----------



## captloadie

Canada doesn't do consecutive terms. 

Lets not forget he will be in his seventies if he gets out in 25 yrs. In all likelihood he'll be a broken and lost soul, bound to a wheelchair (if this joint pain thing is for real), hopefully unable to harm anyone else.


----------



## Gunner98

Let's be clear about a couple of things - he could apply for parole in 25 years but that does not mean he gets out.  He would have to show substantial remorse and rehabilitation or society could change so significantly that his crimes are no longer seen as horrific.  It could happen...people like Carla Homolka walk free on the beach in the Carribean.

As for his pension I will wager that he, in the end, receives a return of contributions rather than a full pension.  IMHO, the precedent that this will set may have lead to undue hardhip for non-serial murdering scumbags.  We have to remember that which we wish for and are granted today, may come back to bite us in the future.   As for capital punishment, it has often been said that it is better to let 9 guilty men rot in prison cells than to execute 1 innocent man.

Some events on the Bernardo/Homolka Timeline to consider:

June 16, 2010
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said an agreement has been reached between all federal parties to pass a bill that would prevent notorious offenders like Karla Homolka from applying for a pardon.

June 25, 2008
Anthony Hanemaayer, convicted in connection with an attack more than 20 years previous, is acquitted by Ontario's top court. According to court documents, Bernardo admitted to Toronto police in 2006 that he carried out the knifepoint assault.

Dec. 17, 2007
Reports indicate that Homolka left Canada for the Caribbean with the man she remarried, Thierry Bordelais, and her young son. Tim Danson, a lawyer for the victims' families, says he'd be "delighted" if Homolka was gone for good because "she's dangerous."

Nov. 30, 2005
A Montreal judge overturns the 14 conditions  imposed on Karla Homolka when she was released from prison on July 4, 2005. The restrictions were ordered under provisions of the Criminal Code after a judge ruled she still posed a risk to the community.

Tim Danson, the lawyer for the families of Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French, urges Quebec's attorney general to appeal the decision. He says his clients felt "like they were kicked in the stomach."


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/06/16/f-bernardo-homolka-timeline.html


----------



## Journeyman

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Nov. 30, 2005
> A Montreal judge overturns the 14 conditions  imposed on Karla Homolka when she was released from prison on July 4, 2005. The restrictions were ordered under provisions of the Criminal Code after a judge ruled she still posed a risk to the community.


I suggest this is why some of us have no great faith that the system will keep Williams locked away forever.


----------



## Retired AF Guy

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> What about his wife? Me and my wife/ family were talking about this today. Is it possiable she didnt have a clue? If I was hiding harddrives and womens underwear all around my house, my wife would know. However I'm sure the police have looked into her role as well, it just doesnt make sense to me or my wife how he could get away with the erratic behaviour needed to "dissapear" and break into houses etc while in ottawa. And again the stuff hidden in the house.



How many spouses have conducted affairs without the other half knowing about it?? Heck, there have been cases where a spouse have been convicted of bigamy with two separate families without either family knowing about the other?

Have you ever told your wife, "Honey, I'm going out with the boys. I'll be back at 10." Or, "I'll be in the workshop for a couple of hours." Does your wife come and check on what you are doing?? Or your wife says, "Honey, I'm going to a Tupperware party. Back in three hours." Do you go and check to see if she actually went to the party or was actually there for three hours?


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Let's be clear about a couple of things - he could apply for parole in 25 years but that does not mean he gets out.  He would have to show substantial remorse and rehabilitation or society could change so significantly that his crimes are no longer seen as horrific.  It could happen...people like Carla Homolka walk free on the beach in the Carribean.



That's what all the BS crocodile tears and ingenuous statement in court were about.  He's already laying the ground work to be a candidate for early parole.  When the time comes, and it will, the public may bray and howl.  But the bottom line is, if he meets the criteria HE WILL BE OUT.  Anyone doubt that he will stay in shape and be perfectly viable in his 70's?  I don't see "broken" in his future, and he doesn't appear to have a soul to lose.  

http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news8985.html
100-yr-old paedophile, Theodore Sypnier freed from New York jail, 'still a threat'  
A 100-year-old convicted child sex offender recently released from prison in upstate New York said he had no intention of following the rules of society, according to local news station WIVB. 
Theodore Sypnier is currently in a halfway house and will soon be allowed to live on his own, but many are concerned that the elderly convict remains an active threat to children in the community.
Erie County District Attorney Frank Sedita said: "I want him away from society as long as possible. It doesn't matter to me that he's 100 years old. He's evil. He's a paedophile. Paedophiles are the worst."
One district attorney said "paedophiles are vampires, they never stop until you drive a stake through their hearts", while Mr Sedita wanted to see Sypnier spend the rest of his time in prison.
Sypnier was charged in 1999 with raping and sodomising two sisters, aged four and seven at the time.  He pleaded guilty to the crimes in 2002, but the verdict was reversed on a technicality. He was later jailed on a lesser offence.
He is currently under post release supervision, a stricter version of parole, but will be free of all restrictions in 2012.
The minister in charge of the halfway house where Sypnier is staying said he would not leave him alone with children and that he seems "bent on not following the rules of society and authority".
Sypnier reportedly said: "I'm 100 and I'm not gonna change."

Serial sex offenders do not change.  If Williams gets out, he will change his name (again) and reoffend.  I bet Bernardo (Teal) is watching all this and thinking "WTF? This guy makes me look like amature hour?! Why am* I* stuck with dangerous offender?"


----------



## OldSolduer

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I suggest this is why some of us have no great faith that the system will keep Williams locked away forever.



Guys, this is NOT a system any more. It's an industry. Lawyers and those who build the jails, contracts for food etc are all making big bucks. 

The Corrections staff are not.


----------



## Journeyman

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> But the bottom line is, if he meets the criteria HE WILL BE OUT.


A friend of mine is a Corrections Officer in Kingston. She became a Parole Officer, but after about six months she went back to being a guard; she was "obligated to let the scumbags go, knowing they were going to re-offend," and she didn't want to live with that.

Great system  :


----------



## OldSolduer

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I suggest this is why some of us have no great faith that the system will keep Williams locked away forever.



Guys, this is NOT a system any more. It's an industry. Lawyers and those who build the jails, contracts for food etc are all making big bucks. 

The Corrections staff are not.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Something that Corrections is going to have to come to terms with, and it will take some legislative backing, is that the concept of "punishment" has to be actually introduced back into the jail system.  Other than inconvenience and occasional boredom, there is nothing particularly negative about being in jail once you get the hang of it.  For non-criminals it seems bad, for the actual criminals... not so much.  
The carrot and the stick.  There are a gawd-aweful lot of bushels of carrots out there, and the stick is actually a McDonald's straw.


----------



## mariomike

Regarding the chances of R. Williams early release from confinement.
"Under the controversial faint hope clause of the Criminal Code, Williams would be able to apply for parole after 15 years.":
http://www2.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=3685863



Z-C, now that I am retired, I have lots of time to remember the old days, and nights. Here is one for example:
http://www.pao.ca/public_interface_1.php?ref=honour_roll&record_id=138

I wonder whatever happened to his killer? "confined indefinitely"? I guess it's confidential. He ( the killer ) was in his 20's at the time.

( This was back when they used the old flap style holsters. )


----------



## jollyjacktar

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Let's be clear about a couple of things - he could apply for parole in 25 years but that does not mean he gets out.



No, it does not I agree.  However it does make the family have to revisit their loss each and every time he will have a hearing.  Why should they be  re-victimized?  If he had received a consecutive sentence this would not be an issue.  I realize Canada does not "do" consecutive, but perhaps it is time it does for multiple charges like this.

And he still could get out.  Do we really want him walking or rolling the streets?  Would you want him as a neighbour?  I sure as hell would not and I cannot think of anyone of sane mind that would.


----------



## simysmom99

I am really glad that this sentence has been done and the trail is over.  I read in the news today that the community in Tweed is going to do a healing circle today.  I hope that this community and his wife find peace and are able to move forward.


----------



## mariomike

simysmom99 said:
			
		

> I hope that this community and his wife find peace and are able to move forward.



Unfortunately for Mrs. Harriman, it looks like the Jane Doe lawsuit is still moving forward:
"May 10: A 21-year-old woman who was attacked in September, 2009, launches a $2.45-million civil lawsuit against Col. Williams, claiming she has been suicidal and dealing with drug and alcohol dependencies since the alleged sexual assault, according to a media report. The lawsuit also alleges Col. Williams’ wife, Mary-Elizabeth Harriman, was involved in the fraudulent transfer of Ottawa real estate in a effort to defeat the woman’s claim against the colonel.":
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/the-case-against-the-colonel/article1747296/?from=1764881

"The horror of that night has left the woman with a long list of ongoing trauma, she claims. She will continue to suffer physical, mental and emotional pain, "major" depression, suicidal behaviour, sexual dysfunction and drug and alcohol dependencies, the $2.45-million lawsuit says.

The woman also claims she has lost the ability to trust other people, she has lost current and future income because of an inability to seek or obtain meaningful employment and therefore cannot provide for her children.

She will require extensive therapy and medical attention, she claims, and is seeking $100,000 for future care costs.
The woman is also seeking $500,000 each in general damages for pain and suffering and loss of future income, as well as $500,000 each for aggravated damages and punitive damages. She is also claiming $250,000 in special damages for lost income and a further $100,000 for unspecified special damages.":
http://www.thetelegram.com/Justice/2010-05-11/article-1445076/Col-Williams-wife-sued-for-245M/1


----------



## McG

The Governor General has revoked his commission!  This evil clown no longer holds any rank in the Canadian Forces.


----------



## opcougar

It doesn't stop there, also

  The Governor General has revoked his commission, an extraordinary and severe decision that may constitute a first of its kind in Canadian history.



   Further, the following actions will now be taken:



  Stripping Mr. Williams of his medals

   Termination and recovery of his pay from the date of arrest

  Denial of severance pay; and 

 His prompt release from the CF under “service misconduct” – which is the most serious release item possible.



    As a consequence of his release from the CF for quote service misconduct unquote and of the revocation of his commission, Mr. Williams no longer possesses a rank as a member of the CF.


----------



## The Bread Guy

A couple of open sources for that:


> Confessed killer Russell Williams has been stripped of his rank and is being expelled from the Canadian Forces.
> 
> Governor-General David Johnston approved the move, the military said in an internal email to staff Friday.
> 
> The military is also proceeding to strip Mr. Williams of all medals and claw back all the salary and benefits he's been paid since his arrest in February. Until now he's been earning $12,000 a month.
> 
> “With the conviction and sentencing completed, and following my recommendation, the Governor-General has revoked his commission, an extraordinary and severe decision that may constitute a first of its kind in Canadian history,” Chief of Defence Staff General Walt Natynczyk wrote in an email to fellow soldiers ....


More at the _Globe & Mail_ here.

CBC's Twitter summary:


> Gov.-Gen. David Johnston has agreed to strip Russell Williams of his rank as a colonel in the Canadian armed forces, CBC News learns. #colrw


----------



## gun runner

As far as I am concerned, this punishment is about as fitting as it can get.Consecutuve 25 yr prison terms..not that he will live long enough to serve them( I hear that even hardened prisoners hate pedophiles). A rising star gone supernova..good bye Mr.Williams.


----------



## aesop081

gun runner said:
			
		

> Consecutuve 25 yr prison terms..



His sentences are concurrent.....not consecutive.


----------



## gun runner

Thanks for the correction, I apologize for my stupidity.Cheers.


----------



## aesop081

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/22/williams-parole.html



> Williams could have faced tougher parole terms
> Last Updated: Saturday, October 23, 2010 | 8:10 AM ET
> CBC News
> 
> Double murderer Russell Williams could have faced life in jail with no chance of parole for 50 years under a bill that died last year when the Conservative government prorogued Parliament.
> 
> Russell Williams leaves court in Belleville, Ont., on Thursday following his sentencing for two murders and numerous other charges. (Nathan Denette/Canadian Press)Williams, the former commander at Canadian Forces Base Trenton, was sentenced Thursday to two life terms with no eligibility to apply for parole for 25 years for the murders of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd.
> 
> Under the current law, the sentences will be served concurrently, along with the 10 years he received for each of his two charges of sexual assault and two charges of forcible confinement. The periods of ineligibility for parole also run concurrently.
> 
> In October 2009, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson introduced Bill C-54, which would have allowed judges to set consecutive parole ineligibility periods for people convicted of one or more first- or second-degree murders.
> 
> However, the bill never made it past first reading and died on the order paper when the government prorogued Parliament in December.
> 
> Had it passed, the judge in the Williams case could have made the 25-year parole ineligibility periods consecutive, meaning he would have had to spend 50 years behind bars before he could apply to the parole board.
> 
> The government introduced a new version of the legislation, Bill C-48, on Oct. 5 with Nicholson reiterating his party's tough-on-crime message.
> 
> "The proposed legislation would acknowledge the value of every life taken by this most serious crime," Nicholson said at the time. "It would ensure the criminals responsible serve a sentence that more adequately reflects the gravity of their crimes and it would better protect Canadians by keeping these criminals in jail where they belong."
> 
> Bill C-48 must now make its way through the legislative process and its provisions would not apply retroactively to cases already dealt with by the counts.
> 
> Liberal justice critic Marlene Jennings said if the government had wanted C-54 passed in 2009 in could have made it a priority in Parliament, but it chose not to.
> 
> "Their interest in it is not based on the actual safety of our community and Canadians," Jennings said. "Their interest in it is to use it as a political tool to garner votes."
> 
> The Conservatives are not the first to bring the issue before Parliament.
> 
> In 1996, a Liberal MP introduced a similar bill under a Liberal government. It also failed to become law.


----------



## 57Chevy

From one of the already too many articles posted about Willy
Quote
" the Governor-General has revoked his commission, an extraordinary and severe decision that may constitute a first of its kind in Canadian history,” Chief of Defence Staff General Walt Natynczyk wrote in an email to fellow soldiers ...."

With respect .......I   you and thank you on that decision.

ref: my reply #417/423 
page 28/29


----------



## the 48th regulator

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/10/22/15798236.html


Williams greeted by head of Kingston Pen

By JOE WARMINGTON, Toronto Sun

Last Updated: October 23, 2010 1:09am

BELLEVILLE, Ont. - The disgraced ‘Killer Colonel’ was not even sentenced to life in prison for one hour and it appears he was already getting special treatment.

Sources tell me upon arriving at Kingston Penitentiary Thursday the low-life Russell Williams was given the VIP welcome.

“The new warden of KP (Jay Pyke) was on hand to meet Williams immediately upon his arrival,” said an insider.

Wonder what they talked about? High level warden to colonel, commanding officer stuff I guess. Above our pay grade. Any autographs?

“This is completely unheard of in any federal penitentiary or institution,” said an outraged insider. “Any federally incarcerated inmate who arrives at any prison is never met by a warden.”

If this did happen Williams, who rubbed noses with the Queen, prime ministers and some of the country’s most powerful figures, now has high level contacts his fellow inmates don’t have.

The source said “inmates are always processed through admissions by correctional officers, may go and see a Correctional supervisor in extreme cases, and escorted to their unit/cell. But not in this case. Special attention for this guy already?”

First he gets paid, then gets to keep his pension and severance pay, gets away without having a dangerous offender hearing that would solidify his life in prison (who is more dangerous?) and now gets to rub shoulders with the commanding officer of his new unit?

He was also greeted by a special psychologist (not an on-staff KP psychologist, either) as well — also unheard of for new arrivals.

“Why the special treatment?” asks the insider. “There are several inmates within the walls of KP that have committed crimes just as brutal. To us, it is just another inmate that we have to look after, protect, keep alive, feed, clothe, provide medical and dental, legal help, and put up with their endless BS. “

So what gives? I called and e-mailed Corrections Canada and no one got back to me. Maybe they were too busy helping their new superstar inmate pick out his new wardrobe?

My source says stay tuned for the conjugal visit application which should come around the same time as the taxpayers pay Williams’ too silent wife Mary-Elizabeth Harriman $3,000 for the OPP disturbing her home while they searched for vital murder investigation evidence.

- - -

“I prefer to watch Law and Order but I do watch CSI occasionally yes.”

As he said that Feb. 7, CFB Trenton base commander Williams had no idea he was sitting in the middle of a real-life episode of both. The focus this week was on the colonel but the real story is actually a veteran OPP behavioural sciences expert by the name of Det.-Sgt. Jim Smyth, a 43-year-old 22-year copper and father of two.

He is a national hero. Just like Belleville copper Sgt. Grant Boulias who matched the tire print taken from a field to Williams truck, Smyth deserves every citation imaginable for his coaxing a confession out this vicious killer. But he’s too humble for any of that.

“I am just going to take a break and spend some time with family,” Smyth told me. “I am also going to take some time to reflect on the victims.”

He admits there will be lingering effects “but I was doing my job and this is what I trained for and you know that when you sign on.”

Thank God Smyth did because you may recall he is the same officer who used descriptions from suspect Terri-Lynne McClintic and went out on a hunch and found the murdered remains of missing eight-year-old Tori Stafford.

“You could say something clicked,” he told me at the time.

He’s so smart. You watch that interview with Williams and you see something click with Smyth again as he noticed Williams seemed to have care for his wife and zeroed in on that.

“I want to minimize the impact on my wife,” said Williams.

“So do I,” responded Smyth

“So how do we do that?” asked Williams.

“You start by telling the truth.”

“Okay,” said Williams.

“Alright, so where is she?” Smyth asked about Jessica Lloyd.

“Got a map?” said Williams.

Case solved.

- - -

One last thing that needs to be said — special thanks to Belleville Police Chief Cory McMullan and Insp. Mike Graham, the OPP, the Crown’s office and court staff at the Pinnacle St. court for running a tight and professional ship in what was a very difficult week for all.

I have covered a lot of big trials — John Gotti in New York — and these people set the standard of how it should be done.

None of us will ever forget about the victims and those reading this 25 years from now at a parole hearing, please remember that this man deeply wounded this region.

Try to have a good weekend everyone. Scrawler out.

_*Copyright © 2010 Toronto Sun All Rights Reserved*_


----------



## Michael OLeary

Tangent removed for reasons as noted during the discussion.  (If you don't know what that means, you don't need to know.)

Any desires to continue between individuals can be taken to PM.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## old medic

Wife of killer colonel avoiding public spotlight
By Andrew Duffy
24 October 2010
http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Wife+killer+colonel+avoiding+public+spotlight/3718105/story.html


> By all accounts, for almost two decades, Mary Elizabeth Harriman believed that her husband, Russell Williams, was an officer and a gentleman.
> 
> The couple would sometimes be seen walking hand-in-hand in their Ottawa neighbourhood. He would carry her luggage into their home when she returned from the airport on one of the many trips she made as associate executive director of the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada.
> 
> Former neighbours said Harriman and Williams shared many interests: golf, boating, fitness and their beloved cats, Curio and Rosebud.
> 
> To their neighbours, they seemed the perfect power couple: She was the well-mannered charity executive; he was the spit-and-polish — if often silent — air force colonel. There was never a flicker of public discord between them.
> 
> "They couldn't have been better neighbours. We couldn't fault them for anything: they were great people," remembers Shirley Fraser, who held the keys to their house and fed their cat when they were out of town.
> 
> "You couldn't ask for better people. They were the perfectly normal family."
> 
> For Harriman, that perfectly normal world was obliterated earlier this year when the country discovered that her husband had been arrested for the sex slayings of two women.
> 
> Her officer and gentleman is now a convicted rapist and murderer.
> 
> Williams received two concurrent life sentences this past week with no chance of parole for 25 years after confessing to killing two women and sexually assaulting two others.
> 
> He also pleaded guilty to more than 80 counts of break and enter and theft of women's lingerie.
> 
> The 52-year-old Harriman was not in Belleville, Ont., this past week to watch as Williams was presented with the lurid evidence against him. She did not return phone messages.
> 
> Indeed, ever since her husband's arrest, she has assiduously tried to evade the public spotlight that has accompanied the case.
> 
> Yet she remains the focus of intense interest: Did she have any hint of Williams' sexual deviance? How does she manage the memories of their two decades together? Can she rebuild a normal life?
> 
> Court documents — and Williams' own taped confession — suggest Harriman firmly believed her husband was an honourable soldier until the winter's day when he revealed to police that his uniform masked a monster.
> 
> "On or about Feb. 8, 2010, I became aware of criminal charges against my husband," Harriman wrote in a civil suit affidavit that represents her only public statement to date since Williams' arrest.
> 
> "The revelation of these charges has been devastating to me."
> 
> The charges also shocked the three families in the Ottawa suburb of Orleans who lived near Williams and Harriman — and considered the couple part of a close circle of friends.
> 
> "It was the biggest shock of my life and I'm 71 years old," said George White, a retired air force technician who attended Williams' swearing-in ceremony as commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton in Ontario.
> 
> White has written letters to both Williams and Harriman. To Williams, he expressed his regret that the colonel's life has gone so terribly wrong. To Harriman, he offered unconditional support.
> 
> "I told her we are there to support her and we are her friends; we're here to lean on," he says. "I wanted to let her know we haven't deserted her."
> 
> Neither Williams nor Harriman has responded.
> 
> In his police interview, excerpts of which were played in court, Williams repeatedly told investigators he was worried about his wife and how his revelations would affect her.
> 
> "Dearest Mary Elizabeth," Williams wrote in a note penned at the end of his confession,
> 
> "I am so very sorry for having hurt you like this. I know you'll take care of Sweet Rosie (their cat). I love you."
> 
> Shirley Fraser, 62, a retired civil servant who now drives a school bus, says she has no doubt that Harriman was victimized by Williams.
> 
> "My heart bleeds for her," says Fraser. "My biggest prayer is that she will be able to come through this. I can't imagine what she's going through."
> 
> Mary Elizabeth Harriman was born on Nov. 15, 1957, the only daughter of Frederick and Irene Harriman.
> 
> She grew up in Madsen, a rough mining town in northwestern Ontario, just south of Red Lake. Her father worked as chief geologist with a local mine.
> 
> She was a talented student who excelled at Red Lake District high school, where she graduated with honours. Harriman went to the University of Guelph in Ontario and graduated in 1980 with a bachelor of applied science. She later returned to school to work on a master's degree in adult education at St. Francis Xavier University in Nova Scotia.
> 
> It was sometime during the late 1980s that Harriman — Mary-Liz to her friends — was introduced to a young air force pilot by the name of David Russell Williams.
> 
> Williams had studied at the country's best schools, Upper Canada College and the University of Toronto, and was an accomplished trumpet player.
> 
> Harriman was five years Williams' senior, but the two hit it off: she seemed to soften his sharp edges. They were married in a small, happy ceremony in Winnipeg on June 1, 1991.
> 
> Williams was posted to CFB Portage la Prairie in Manitoba as a flying instructor. Harriman settled into life as a military wife and followed her husband as he moved first to CFB Shearwater in Nova Scotia — she became involved there with a provincewide nutrition awareness program — then, in 1995, to Ottawa.
> 
> In Ottawa, Williams joined 412 (Transport) Squadron where he flew the CC144 Challenger jet, ferrying VIPs across the country.
> 
> The couple put down roots: Harriman went to work as a lobbyist for the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada. They found a corner-lot home on a quiet street in Orleans, where they would live for the next 13 years.
> 
> A small gathering formed most nights on the front patio of Bob and Terry Gagne's house.
> 
> The Gagnes would be joined by Shirley Fraser and George and Shirley White for coffee and a chat. Often, they'd watch together as Col. Russell Williams, who lived across the street, set off on his evening jog. They'd sometimes give him a little good-natured ribbing when he came back in a sweat.
> 
> "We used to bug him," remembers George White, a retired air force technician.
> 
> "The bunch of us would be out having coffee and he'd be coming home, all wore out from running. I'd say, where'd you go today? Kanata?"
> 
> (Kanata is an Ottawa suburb.)
> 
> Both Harriman and Williams would regularly cross the street to join the coffee klatch. Neither would drink coffee, but they'd both stand and talk.
> 
> "She was more talkative, she was more open than he was," remembers Terry Gagne.
> 
> "He'd look at you now and then, but most of the time he'd be staring at the ground. He'd shake his head, 'Yes, no, or whatever.' "
> 
> Neither Harriman nor Williams discussed their private lives.
> 
> "She was very quiet, very reserved, very professional," White says of Harriman.
> 
> Still, Harriman would discuss her work, her cat and her golf game.
> 
> Harriman and Williams often spent long periods of time apart from one another since they both had jobs that took them away from home.
> 
> At home, the couple doted on their black-and-white cat, Curio. "That was their baby," says Fraser. "They didn't have any children; they were crazy for the cat."
> 
> For years, they kept a BMW and a Nissan Pathfinder in their driveway, along with a sizable boat. They would often go boating together: Harriman would read while Williams fished.
> 
> Harriman and Williams both enjoyed flourishing careers. She had taken on a senior executive's role at the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada. He was on a trajectory toward the military's general officer ranks.
> 
> In July 2009, he became commander of CFB Trenton, the country's largest airbase.
> 
> Months later, their neighbours were surprised when a "for sale" sign went up in front of the couple's home. Neither Williams nor Harriman had said anything about their plans.
> 
> "We were quite shocked when we saw the sign go up," says White. "We thought, 'Oh no, they were such great neighbours. What will happen? Who will move in?'"
> 
> The couple bought a fashionable new Ottawa townhouse — it was Harriman's dream home, according to Williams — in December.
> 
> Less than two months later, news of Williams' arrest rocked the street's coffee klatch.
> 
> "A few of us, close friends, we went through three stages," says White. "The first stage, when the blast of news come out, we said, 'Can't be, can't be, they've made a mistake, can't be our Russ.' "
> 
> Then, as more details emerged, the group began to entertain the possibility that Williams was guilty — even though they still didn't believe it.
> 
> Finally, they accepted it.
> 
> "Yes, he's guilty," says White. "We feel we've been betrayed by the friendship, but anyway, life has to go on."
> 
> A former member of Harriman's golf foursome says she can't imagine how her old friend is dealing with her own sense of betrayal: "She is a beautiful lady that doesn't deserve this kind of occurrence in her life."
> 
> Harriman's future once seemed perfectly secure: she and her husband both pulled in six-figure salaries. Their careers were in ascendance.
> 
> That financial security, however, is now as uncertain as so many of the things that Harriman once took for granted.
> 
> A $2.45-million civil suit has been launched by a sex-assault victim against Williams and his wife. The suit claims damages against Williams for sexual assault, aggravated assault, battery, and mental distress; it claims damages against Harriman for allegedly transferring assets in violation of the Fraudulent Conveyances Act.
> 
> It alleges that Harriman acquired the couple's $694,000 townhouse six weeks after Williams' arrest in order to shield it from legal claims.
> 
> In her lawsuit, the victim alleges the deal was grossly in Harriman's favour. She paid Williams $62,000 in cash for full ownership of the home and assumed the mortgage; in return, the Tweed cottage, purchased for $178,000, was transferred to Williams.
> 
> In a statement of defence, Harriman says she entered a "domestic contract" with Williams on March 22 that gave him "good and due consideration" for their matrimonial home.
> 
> "I had absolutely no intention whatsoever to have the matrimonial home fraudulently conveyed to me for the purpose of defeating the claims of the plaintiff," Harriman wrote in an affidavit in the case.
> 
> "At all times, my intent in executing the conveyance was to provide for my financial security."
> 
> In her affidavit, Harriman assures the court she doesn't intend to sell her house, dispose of assets or leave the city.
> 
> "I have strong ties to the Ottawa community and my reputation in the community is exemplary," she said.
> 
> Harriman is trying desperately to limit the damage already done to her place in that community.
> 
> She has asked for an order sealing documents expected to be filed in the case. More details about her professional life, personal finances and legal affairs "could have a significant negative impact upon me," she said.
> 
> A motion to seal the documents is to be argued Jan. 25.
> 
> Bob Gagne, her old neighbour, finds it hard to imagine how she deals with her memories: a storehouse of shared moments now haunted by the other Russell Williams.
> 
> "I wish her the best," he says, "because it's going to be tough."


----------



## CorporalMajor

I'm wondering why some people suddenly think they should do more psychological testing for CF personell after this? People who get to positions like his are already very strictly evaluated. No idiot could make it to BComd.   His WIFE of many years had no idea.  How could MGen Bloggins or some shrink, who both wouldn't know him as well, have any clue?   I think some people forget that he was just smart enough to fool everyone, until he caught by some cop even smarter than him.  

IMO his confessions on tape was the creepiest part of all, the way he spoke about it like it was everyday mundane sutff... I remember seeing some forensic phychologist (or whatever it's called) describe him as rare, because of how unemotional his voice was in confession, though the body language was pretty easy to read.


----------



## Jarnhamar

CorporalMajor said:
			
		

> I'm wondering why some people suddenly think they should do more psychological testing for CF personell after this? People who get to positions like his are already very strictly evaluated. No idiot could make it to BComd.   His WIFE of many years had no idea.  How could MGen Bloggins or some shrink, who both wouldn't know him as well, have any clue?   I think some people forget that he was just smart enough to fool everyone, until he caught by some cop even smarter than him.
> 
> IMO his confessions on tape was the creepiest part of all, the way he spoke about it like it was everyday mundane sutff... I remember seeing some forensic phychologist (or whatever it's called) describe him as rare, because of how unemotional his voice was in confession, though the body language was pretty easy to read.



What was his body language telling you?


----------



## krustyrl

Well, for starters there was Willy's constant shifting of body position, and stalling trying to think of answers when asked.  The SME commentator noticed this immediately and gave his SME perspective. 
Maybe the only thing missing from that Fifth Estate broadcast was a "John Madden" type telestrator circling Willys body movements in desparation for answers.!


----------



## Hawk

My son and I were discussing this yesterday, and speculating on William's medals. Will they have to be physically returned - to where or whom? What will become of them? I'd love to be able to phone him with the answer.

Hawk


----------



## Gunner98

I would suspect they would be physically returned to:

Directorate of History and Heritage (DHH) 4-3
Bldg 347 Uplands Site 
MGen George R. Pearkes Bldg 
101 Colonel By Drive 
Ottawa ON 
Canada K1A 0K2


----------



## Hawk

Thanks for the information. As for Mr. Williams - thanks a lot, guy, the CF really didn't need this!!!

Hawk


----------



## CorporalMajor

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> What was his body language telling you?


His body language told me he knew he was caught.  His voice is what I was talking about.


----------



## The Bread Guy

This from QMI, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._


> A majority of Canadians say former colonel Russell Williams' guilty pleas on rape and murder charges haven't affected their opinion of the military, according to an exclusive QMI Agency poll.
> 
> When asked what best represented their attitude about how the case affected their view of the Canadian military, 59% of people polled said the case had no impact on their opinion. About one in five, or 23%, said it hurt their opinion of the Canadian Forces, and 4% said it actually improved their view. Another 13% said they didn't know enough to have an opinion.
> 
> (….)
> 
> A spokesman for Leger Marketing, which conducted the poll for QMI Agency, said while the polls' results may not be surprising, sometimes that's a good thing.
> 
> “You would hope that something like the Russell Williams trial doesn't tarnish the Canadian military's reputation but you never really know how people are going to associate him,” Dave Scholz said.
> 
> “This is a very positive story for the military.”
> 
> The poll also found more than half of Canadians like the military, with 56% saying they have either a very good or good opinion, and 10% reporting a poor or very poor opinion. Almost a quarter of respondents – 24% – said they were neutral.
> 
> Men were more likely than women to have a good opinion, with 61% saying they like the military. Just over half of women agreed, with 51% answering positively.
> 
> The poll also shows the older you are, the more likely you are to approve of the Canadian Forces.
> 
> Quebecers were the least likely in the country to have a good opinion of the military, with 42% approving compared to 60% for the rest of Canada. About 17% of Quebecers were likely to have a bad opinion of the Armed Forces. The next lowest support was in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, where 56% of people polled had a positive opinion of the military and 11% were negative.
> 
> Leger did the polling online from Nov. 1-4, 2010. The company polled 1,503 Canadians 18 or older. A telephone poll of this size would have a margin of error of /- 2.6%.


----------



## mariomike

"Prednisone connection in Russell Williams’ crimes?: At about the time his crime spree began, convicted serial killer Russell Williams was taking a cocktail of medications for chronic pain — including a drug that in some cases causes mind-altering side effects.":
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/890177--prednisone-connection-in-russell-williams-crimes?bn=1

Twinkie defence?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense


----------



## OldSolduer

I have a question:

Does anyone know if he suffered a TBI in his pre-adolescence?


----------



## mariomike

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I have a question:
> 
> Does anyone know if he suffered a TBI in his pre-adolescence?



Interesting question:
http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/11/study-many-youth-offenders-have-history-of-traumatic-brain-injury/

"Traumatic brain injury has long been associated with adult prisoners: the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that between 25% and 87% of men and women imprisoned for violent crimes have suffered a TBI prior to incarceration."


----------



## OldSolduer

mariomike said:
			
		

> Interesting question:
> http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/11/study-many-youth-offenders-have-history-of-traumatic-brain-injury/
> 
> "Traumatic brain injury has long been associated with adult prisoners: the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that between 25% and 87% of men and women imprisoned for violent crimes have suffered a TBI prior to incarceration."



I should have picked up on it earlier. I have an interest and that is criminal profiling, particularly serial offenders. It's been found that many serail offenders suffered TBI at some point.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I should have picked up on it earlier. I have an interest and that is criminal profiling, particularly serial offenders. It's been found that many serail offenders suffered TBI at some point.



Well if he never did before, may he experience one in the Joint!

dileas

tess


----------



## gaspasser

I suggest we lock this thread and allow the members to move on and the families, friends and those involved some closure.


----------



## mover1

agreed with BTY Driver


----------



## the 48th regulator

*Military burns Russell Williams' uniforms
*

Updated: Fri Nov. 19 2010 11:40:25 AM

CTV.ca News Staff

The Canadian Forces have retrieved and burned the uniforms that belonged to Russell Williams, the former colonel who was unmasked a sexual predator and murderer, the military confirmed Friday. 

Cmdr. Hubert Genest told CTV.ca that Williams had several uniforms stored in his possession at the time of his arrest last February. 

The military retrieved those uniforms from his former cottage in Tweed, Ont., on Wednesday and burned them Thursday morning at a military facility in Trenton, Ont. 

"Yes the uniforms were burned," Genest confirmed in a telephone interview from Ottawa on Friday morning. 

Genest said collecting the uniforms and other military-owned property of departing soldiers is part of the normal release procedures. 

Generally speaking, if a uniform is in good condition when it is returned to the military, it may be used by other soldiers in future. 

But because Williams wrote his names on all of his uniforms, the military made a decision that it was not appropriate to put them back into circulation "for obvious reasons," Genest said. 

Genest said it was the only case he could recall in his 25-year career with the Canadian Forces where the military burned the returning uniforms. 

Williams is currently serving a life sentence for the sexual assaults and murders of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd, both of Eastern Ontario. 

He is also serving time in Kingston Penitentiary for the sexual assault of two other women from Eastern Ontario and for dozens of fetish break-ins he committed in the same region while serving in the Canadian Forces. 

Severing ties 

Two military police officers and two Canadian Forces members spent about 90 minutes at the house retrieving the military property on Wednesday, Genest said. 

They also retrieved various manuals and documents that were at the former colonel's house. Genest said none of these materials were classified. 

While the military has already revoked William's military commission, Genest said the Canadian Forces is "still in the process of finalizing his release." 

The military intends to take back two medals that Williams had been awarded, as well as a commissioning scroll that marked his status as a commissioned officer. That is expected to happen in the near future, Genest said. 

Genest said Williams must still undergo a medical exam that is required when a person leaves the military. 

Arrangements will be made so that Williams can have the exam in prison.

_© 2010 CTV All rights reserved_


----------



## Fishbone Jones

And this should effectively end the circus.

News Release
November 24 2010


ACCESS TO RUSSELL WILLIAMS INVESTIGATIVE TEAM

ORILLIA, ON, Nov. 24 /CNW/ - The Ontario Provincial Police (OPP), Belleville Police Service, Ottawa Police Service and the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service announced today that out of respect for the victims, their families, friends and the communities, further access to members of the Russell WILLIAMS investigation team will not be provided to the media. 

Rest of article here: - http://www.opp.ca/ecms/index.php?id=405&nid=461


----------



## the 48th regulator

recceguy said:
			
		

> And this should effectively end the circus.
> 
> News Release
> November 24 2010
> 
> 
> ACCESS TO RUSSELL WILLIAMS INVESTIGATIVE TEAM
> 
> ORILLIA, ON, Nov. 24 /CNW/ - The Ontario Provincial Police (OPP), Belleville Police Service, Ottawa Police Service and the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service announced today that out of respect for the victims, their families, friends and the communities, further access to members of the Russell WILLIAMS investigation team will not be provided to the media.
> 
> Rest of article here: - http://www.opp.ca/ecms/index.php?id=405&nid=461



Unfortunately, no it doesn't......


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/896326--russell-williams-investigation-not-over-yet-police-say

*
Russell Williams investigation not over yet, police say*

 November 24, 2010

Maria Babbage

The criminal investigation of convicted sex killer Russell Williams is not over yet, as police sift through unsolved crimes in Canada and abroad to see if they’re linked to the former colonel, the lead detective in the case said Wednesday.

A team of detectives is still reviewing unsolved cases and working with police agencies in other countries to see if Williams, a former globetrotting military pilot, committed any other crimes.

“Our investigation never finished into Russell Williams, never finished once we got started,” said Det. Insp. Chris Nicholas of the Ontario Provincial Police.

“He’s obviously pleaded guilty to a number of offences, but we’re still looking into his past and his behaviour and offences, other offences, he may have committed.”

Nicholas wouldn’t comment on those investigations, but said police “from all over” have contacted them.

“Some of those are from outside of Canada, and we’re working with them to assist them in determining if Russell Williams has anything to do with their crimes,” he said.

“But then we’re also looking at possible offences that he may have committed here in Canada as well.”

Williams was convicted last month of first-degree murder in the brutal sex slayings of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38, of Brighton, Ont., and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville, Ont.

Wednesday marked the first anniversary of Comeau’s murder.

Williams also pleaded guilty to 82 fetish break-and-enters and thefts and two sexual assaults.

The former commander of Canada’s largest military airbase was stripped of his rank after his conviction and is serving a life sentence in Kingston Penitentiary with no possibility of parole for 25 years.

Nicholas confirmed that a female police officer knocked on Lloyd’s door last January, before Williams raped, abducted and murdered the woman.

The officer noticed Williams’s SUV parked in a field nearby, and drove up to Lloyd’s home to investigate. When the officer knocked on the door, nobody answered.

Williams was apparently hiding in the backyard at the time, and broke into Lloyd’s home after the officer left. Lloyd was not home yet.

_© Copyright Toronto Star 1996-2010 _


dileas

tess


----------



## old medic

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101129/russell-williams-physical-exam-101129/

The Canadian Press
29 November 2010



> TORONTO — The Canadian military is another step closer to washing its hands of convicted sex killer Russell Williams.
> 
> The former colonel, who is serving a life sentence for the brutal sex slayings of two women, went through a final medical exam last week.
> 
> A spokesman for the Canadian Forces says a military doctor visited Williams in prison Nov. 25 to perform the exam.
> 
> He says it's part of the usual routine for military personnel who are leaving the Forces.
> 
> Williams has already been stripped of his rank, but he won't officially be drummed out of the Canadian Forces until they retrieve his medals and commission scroll.
> 
> Once they have his two medals and scroll -- an official document that confirms Williams was a serving officer -- the military plans to destroy them.
> 
> The spokesman says they hope to have those items soon.
> 
> The military took the extraordinary step of burning Williams's uniform and clothing on Nov. 18 at CFB Trenton, the base he once commanded.


----------



## krustyrl

We're gettin' there...slowly but surely ...then he will be a "stain from the past".


----------



## Gunner98

His final physical exam results: degenerative arthritis, heartless, otherwise good health except for everything above the shoulders.


----------



## The Bread Guy

krustyrl said:
			
		

> We're gettin' there...slowly but surely ...then he will be a "stain from the past".


The last step towards "past tense" status appears to have been taken - highlights mine:


> The final steps to process the release of Mr. Russell Williams from the Canadian Forces have been completed, *including the retrieval of his South-West Asia Service Medal with Afghanistan bar, Canadian Forces' Decoration with clasp, and his Commission Scroll.*
> 
> Prior to these steps being taken, Russell Williams’ administrative release was approved and his Commission was revoked by His Excellency the Right Honourable David Johnston, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada, on October 22, 2010.
> 
> Additionally, on November 17, 2010, the Canadian Forces retrieved military clothing, equipment and publications that had been issued to him by the Canadian Forces.  The clothing was disposed of on November 18, 2010.


----------



## The Bread Guy

As much as I don't like the rating, some of the discussion in the article is interesting:


> .... Some may recoil at the thought of Williams as 2010's top newsmaker, but it's an "act of news judgment," not an award, said April Lindgren, a veteran reporter who now teaches journalism at Toronto's Ryerson University.
> 
> "People have to understand, he wasn't selected Newsmaker of the Year because he's a great guy," Lindgren said.
> 
> "He was selected Newsmaker of the Year because of the magnitude of his evil, and because of the news his deeds generated."
> 
> In the long history of The Canadian Press year-end survey, criminals rarely draw many votes from those who produce the country's newspapers, newscasts and news websites. Despite their notoriety, killers like Clifford Olson, Paul Bernardo and Robert Pickton were never selected.
> 
> "It is a dark choice, and maybe counterintuitive, but it is hard to deny the impact of the story on Canadians," said Jennifer McGuire, general manager and editor-in-chief of CBC News.
> 
> "It made us all look at the world a little differently. And we reacted to it viscerally and emotionally."
> 
> The Williams case was a "glimpse into the horrendous darkness" that exists in humans, said Murray Langdon, news director at radio station CFAX in Victoria.
> 
> "The story revealed a stark contrast; a strong, charismatic and dependable leader, and twisted, depraved and sadistic hunter," Langdon wrote.
> 
> While there was little argument about the journalistic importance of the story, some voters admitted they couldn't bring themselves to cast a ballot for Williams.
> 
> "I just couldn't vote for Russell Williams — it would be like when Time (magazine) declared Hitler 'Man of The Year,'" said Murray Wood, news director of radio stations CJME in Regina and CKOM in Saskatoon.
> 
> Wood cast his vote for Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall, whose fight over the future of the province's potash industry pushed his Prairie brand of diplomacy onto the national stage.
> 
> Williams was picked by 29 per cent of the newsrooms in the Newsmaker survey. The Canadian with the second highest total — 15 per cent — was hockey superstar Sidney Crosby, whose overtime goal in the gold medal game at the Vancouver Olympics set off a wave of national delirium.
> 
> Prime Minister Stephen Harper, the Newsmaker for 2008 and 2009, was next with nine per cent.
> 
> And for the first time, The Canadian Press conducted a parallel survey in conjunction with Yahoo! Canada to allow the public to make its own choices for Newsmaker of the Year.
> 
> The public results were the inverse of the top two newsroom choices: Yahoo! Canada readers picked Crosby as the top newsmaker with 21 per cent of the votes, with Williams tied for second with pop superstar Justin Bieber, both with 14 per cent. Bieber came in sixth in the newsroom survey ....


----------



## kratz

re: Ottawa Citizen

I've thought this before and I'll post it here. Most people want closure for the families affected by Williams, but I think it sad MSM is forcing his wife, to seek legal protection through her divorce and civil proceedings. IMO, she is not the story, Russell and his actions are.




> 'Vulnerable' state of Williams' wife should keep divorce files sealed: Lawyers
> By Andrew Seymour, Postmedia News February 3, 2011
> 
> 
> The wife of Russell Williams is in a "vulnerable emotional state" and needs to have all the details of her divorce case against the sex-killer sealed to protect her from deteriorating, say court documents filed Thursday by her legal team.



More of the report at link


----------



## kratz

On my way to work yesterday, the radio was announcing NBC's show Dateline will be airing this story. Baed on the video preview, much of the material has been covered in this discussion.


----------



## kratz

He's earning $60,000 per month year in pension, but can not be bothered to pay a court ordered $8000 victims surcharge, according the this news report.



> Killer Williams owes thousands to victims funds: reports
> By SNEH DUGGAL, The Ottawa Citizen March 8, 2011
> 
> OTTAWA — Convicted murderer and rapist Russell Williams allegedly owes thousands of dollars in victim surcharges, according to media reports.
> 
> In addition to his prison sentences, the former CFB Trenton base commander was asked by a judge to pay about $8,000 into a victims fund, but has not yet done so, reports say.
> 
> “While I don’t know much about his personal financial situation, he would certainly be in a better position to pay a victim surcharge,” said Steve Sullivan, executive director of Ottawa Victim Services.



and



> “If an offender is choosing not to pay when he can, it raises questions about how remorseful he is and how aware he is of the harm he has caused,” said Sullivan. “This is a guy who probably is never going to walk out of prison again, so he doesn’t have much to lose.”


----------



## Gunner98

Do they have ATMs in maximum security?  Would anyone accept a cheque or a wire transfer from him?  Slow news day!


----------



## Fishbone Jones

If the government is that worried about collecting, they have the means to seize it. It's not like he's going anywhere.


----------



## The Bread Guy

What pisses me off the most here is in highlights:


> Police found child porn on serial sex criminal Russell Williams' computer but laid no charges in exchange for him pleading guilty to murder and sexual assault, a new book says.
> 
> The former commander of Canada's largest military airfield wouldn't admit to downloading pictures of teenaged girls in sexual positions, Globe and Mail reporter Timothy Appleby writes in "A New Kind of Monster."
> 
> *A source quoted in the book said Williams couldn't face the stigma attached to child pornography, though he was willing to plead guilty to murder, rape and a series of bizarre sexually motivated break-ins.
> 
> "This is a guy who structured his life around how he saw others act, and that's how his morality base came about," said the source, who was involved in the case.
> 
> "In the military, you can kill people, it's accepted ... it's within the realm of human behaviour. And in war, rape is within that realm as well. The one thing that isn't, and stands outside that, is (sexual abuse of) children."
> 
> "There's no one else within his group that engages in that, so that would make him truly alone."* ....


*WTF?*  

_If_ this source was quoted correctly, and _if_ the quote accurately reflects what s/he thinks, thinking that it's ok to kill (outside the terms of approved rules of engagement, often as a last resort) or rape (in ANY context) in the military, or he saw so much killing/rape in the CF that it would be ok, this source is full of the highest, most extreme level of crap, and it colours how I would consider any other information presented in the rest of the book.   :rage:

Or am I being too sensitive here?


----------



## krustyrl

Unbelievable, just saying "that's the Justice System for ya"..just doesn't cut it.!  Not sure now if I would read the book if it is laced with assanine reasoning such as what milnews quoted......

My  :2c:


...things that make you go GRRRRRR..!!!!!   :rage:


----------



## Brutus

Am I misreading this?

'it's accepted ... it's within the realm of human behaviour...And in war, rape is within that realm as well.' 

I have read that line several times, and I can't see how the author of that sentence is suggesting anything other than that in war it's acceptable to rape. 

I am wondering only because as I went to the link posted, I expected a barrage of reader's comments on this llittle snippet, but very few reader's comment touched on the absurdity of this statement. Surely the public doesn't really think it's ok to do this, or worse, that we actully do this?

That is definately the most ridiculous statement I have heard on the CF in a very long time. That's disgusting.


----------



## captloadie

Was the quote speaking specifically of the CF, or military organizations as a whole. In today's PC western world, raping and pillaging are big no-nos, but historically it is not uncommon. In fact forget historically, it happens now, maybe not widespread, but it happens and the global "WE" turn a blind eye.

And in the CF sexual assault happens, and is not often punished. To prove my point, read through the results on the CMAC site and see how many times sexual assault charges are laid, and how many times they are withdrawn, stayed, not proven, etc. with the charged member pleading to a "lesser" charge.


----------



## ballz

captloadie said:
			
		

> Was the quote speaking specifically of the CF, or military organizations as a whole. In today's PC western world, raping and pillaging are big no-nos, but historically it is not uncommon. In fact forget historically, it happens now, maybe not widespread, but it happens and the global "WE" turn a blind eye.



Well it says he "structured his life around how he saw others act" so that woud imply that he learnd it was acceptable human behaviour to kill and rape by seeing it (in the CF).


----------



## The Bread Guy

captloadie said:
			
		

> Was the quote speaking specifically of the CF, or military organizations as a whole. In today's PC western world, raping and pillaging are big no-nos, but historically it is not uncommon. In fact forget historically, it happens now, maybe not widespread, but it happens and the global "WE" turn a blind eye.



This bit, if quoted correctly, doesn't suggest he learned his mores from society in general or historical example:


> ".... *In the military*, you can kill people, it's accepted ... it's within the realm of human behaviour ....





			
				captloadie said:
			
		

> And in the CF sexual assault happens, and is not often punished. To prove my point, read through the results on the CMAC site and see how many times sexual assault charges are laid, and how many times they are withdrawn, stayed, not proven, etc. with the charged member pleading to a "lesser" charge.


Also true outside the CF.  I read the source, however, to suggest it's part of what Williams lived with a member of the CF.  To me, inconsistent enforcement/sentencing =/= motivation.


----------



## dogger1936

Anyone have his contact info in jail? Would love to write him!! >


----------



## Ammo

Russell Williams’s final victim: his wife
Mary Elizabeth Harriman appears determined to hold on to what little is left

The latest article from Macleans (some 9 pages, too long to reproduce here)
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/11/her-only-crime-was-trusting-him/


----------



## GAP

It's nothing more than a rehash of the Russel Williams case, with a headline about his wife so people will read it... :


----------



## armyvern

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Anyone have his contact info in jail? Would love to write him!! >



I'm driving by his new house at about 0500hrs tomorrow morning; perhaps you could PM me your "writings" to transcribe onto paper, form into paper airplane and then attempt to make fly over his really old, but new to him, big-ass fence?

It's worth a shot, but I make no promises.


----------



## OldSolduer

GAP said:
			
		

> It's nothing more than a rehash of the Russel Williams case, with a headline about his wife so people will read it... :



It will cause much wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth and so called "experts" asking:

"How could she not know? She had to have known!"

Then there will be letter to editors all stating:

"Off with her head" 

Well maybe not that bad, but they will blame her for being an "enabler" or some such thing.

As for Mr Williams new "house" I've been inside it. Not pretty that's for sure.


----------



## The Bread Guy

According to an initial report from CBC.ca, nothing to see here, move along now:


> Divorce deal of Russell Williams, wife to stay sealed . Publication ban in place unless divorce in open court.


----------



## wildman0101

Tony,,, 
I hope not mate....

A source quoted in the book said Williams couldn't face the stigma attached to child pornography, though he was willing to plead guilty to murder, rape and a series of bizarre sexually motivated break-ins.

"This is a guy who structured his life around how he saw others act, and that's how his morality base came about," said the source, who was involved in the case.

"In the military, you can kill people, it's accepted ... it's within the realm of human behaviour. And in war, rape is within that realm as well. The one thing that isn't, and stands outside that, is (sexual abuse of) children."

"There's no one else within his group that engages in that, so that would make him truly one sick(er what group)Military er sick group as he has been diagnosed as or ..

are all Can Mil Per's being painted said same because of this sick a-hole....portrayed by our media. good god. then as far as i can figuire the media is just as sick as xxxx Mr incarcerated William's.
With regard's to prisoner William's,,,, Screw you. 
With regard's to our Loyal (Enphasis on loyal)member's of our Canadian Armed Force's... You have nothing to be ashamed of regard's this (Prisoner William's)
This is just my opinion and my opinion only... 
Any responses will be directed to me and me only.. And not to this site. Thanks
Scoty B


----------



## OldSolduer

wildman0101 said:
			
		

> "In the military, you can kill people, it's accepted ... it's within the realm of human behaviour. And in war, rape is within that realm as well. The one thing that isn't, and stands outside that, is (sexual abuse of) children."
> 
> "



That statement needs to be dealt with. Rape is NEVER acceptable and needs to be prosecuted vigourously.


My  :2c: minus the GST.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Had to include this bit from a recent visit by the CDS to Afghanistan:


> .... Natynczyk presented several commendations to individual soldiers and groups for service in Afghanistan. But the general also handed Chief Warrant Officer Kevin West the sergeant-major of the air wing, an award for service at 8 Wing Trenton, Ont.
> 
> Natynczyk said West held not only the base but the surrounding community together in the aftermath of the horrific murders carried out by Trenton's former commander, Russell Williams.
> 
> Williams' name is one that is generally not spoken within the military, which reacted with horror to his conviction and the lurid revelations of his sexual fetishes.
> 
> "You all know what I'm talking about," Natynczyk told the troops before praising West. "This is an extraordinary leader and I'm so proud of what you did last year." ....


Source:  The Canadian Press, 2 Jul 11


----------



## Haggis

All you sergeants major out there should take a minutre to think about what CWO Kevin West experienced. Each and every day he accompanied his Command Team partner on duties in support of the successful prosecution of 8 Wing's mission  They confided in each other, ate together, travelled together, socialized and suported each other.  They even honoured the memory of Cpl Marie France Comeau.  Each and every day they were the pinnacles and the faces of discipline and professionalism at 8 Wing.

Then, the police arrive and arrest your boss for, among other things, raping and killing one of his - YOUR - own troops.

There is absolutely NOTHING in our training and professional development system that prepares a CWO for something like that.  Thre are likely very very few people who can say they have shared the same experience.  Sure many folks have found out that thier friend/relative etc. was a killer.  But, these were two men in high trusted positions of power, authority and influence, who worked side-by-side for months.... yet one of them held a dark secret and the other was completly oblivious!

I came to know Kevin West when he was Commandant of the NCMPDC in St. Jean.  I absolutely CANNOT fathom what he went through.  The CDS Commendation, while well deserved, is a pittance compared to what the CF truly owes this professional airman, a true credit to our NCO corps.


----------



## Infanteer

Well said Haggis.


----------



## The Bread Guy

First review I've spotted...


> Is Russell Williams a unique phenomenon in the world of sadistic sexual killers?
> 
> Tim Appleby tackles the perplexing question in his best-selling book _A New Kind of Monster: The Secret Life and Chilling Crimes of Colonel Russell Williams_.
> 
> For his first true crime book, the veteran Globe and Mail crime reporter and foreign correspondent has wisely chosen a tale that has piqued the imagination of Canadians from coast to coast.
> 
> 
> It has also stirred interest in Britain where Williams once piloted a plane for Queen Elizabeth and other dignitaries, bringing them to Canada for a royal visit.
> 
> Appleby has compiled first-rate material on Williams from his earliest years to today.
> 
> The journalist traces the life of Williams, a bright, ambitious British immigrant boy who came to Canada and grew up in an atmosphere of high achievers ....


Source:  Sun Media, 17 Jul 11


----------



## mariomike

Sun
July 18, 2011
"Second civil suit pending against killer colonel: TORONTO - This time it’s not just the killer colonel and his wife being sued but the OPP and the Canadian Armed Forces, too.":
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/18/second-civil-suit-pending-against-killer-colonel


----------



## PMedMoe

> the military could offer assistance to all of the former colonel’s victims — including sending over soldiers and equipment to knock down Williams’ eyesore of a cottage, paint and repair his victim’s homes



This belongs in the "Dumbest thing" thread in Radio Chatter.   :


----------



## OldSolduer

mariomike said:
			
		

> Sun
> July 18, 2011
> "Second civil suit pending against killer colonel: TORONTO - This time it’s not just the killer colonel and his wife being sued but the OPP and the Canadian Armed Forces, too.":
> http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/18/second-civil-suit-pending-against-killer-colonel



Typical. I'm not sure if this is just a cash grab by an enterprising lawyer or a justifiable suit.


----------



## aesop081

> For example the OPP can continue to offer regular and constant patrols of the area



Why ? Williams is in jail.



> the military could offer assistance to all of the former colonel’s victims — including sending over soldiers and equipment to knock down Williams’ eyesore of a cottage, paint and repair his victim’s homes, offer counselling and fair and appropriate compensation



These people are victimes of Russel Williams, not victims of the CF.


----------



## dogger1936

Haggis said:
			
		

> All you sergeants major out there should take a minutre to think about what CWO Kevin West experienced. Each and every day he accompanied his Command Team partner on duties in support of the successful prosecution of 8 Wing's mission  They confided in each other, ate together, travelled together, socialized and suported each other.  They even honoured the memory of Cpl Marie France Comeau.  Each and every day they were the pinnacles and the faces of discipline and professionalism at 8 Wing.
> 
> Then, the police arrive and arrest your boss for, among other things, raping and killing one of his - YOUR - own troops.
> 
> There is absolutely NOTHING in our training and professional development system that prepares a CWO for something like that.  Thre are likely very very few people who can say they have shared the same experience.  Sure many folks have found out that thier friend/relative etc. was a killer.  But, these were two men in high trusted positions of power, authority and influence, who worked side-by-side for months.... yet one of them held a dark secret and the other was completly oblivious!
> 
> I came to know Kevin West when he was Commandant of the NCMPDC in St. Jean.  I absolutely CANNOT fathom what he went through.  The CDS Commendation, while well deserved, is a pittance compared to what the CF truly owes this professional airman, a true credit to our NCO corps.



Thanks Haggis. Thats one angle I  (or many soldiers) havent thought about. Great food for thought.


----------



## FlyingDutchman

As much as I feel for the victims of his crimes, there is a small part of me that thinks that sueing the CF is a cash grab.  I feel that regardless of his job he would have commited the same crimes.


----------



## The Bread Guy

mariomike said:
			
		

> Sun
> July 18, 2011
> "Second civil suit pending against killer colonel: TORONTO - This time it’s not just the killer colonel and his wife being sued but the OPP and the Canadian Armed Forces, too.":
> http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/18/second-civil-suit-pending-against-killer-colonel


CBC.ca catches up on this one, with a bit more detail on how much is being sought (CAVEAT:  don't click on the story if you don't want to see, in the words of the CBC warning,  "disturbing sexual and violent details"):


> An Ontario woman who was bound and sexually assaulted by convicted killer Russell Williams has filed *a $7-million lawsuit* against the disgraced former base commander of CFB Trenton, his ex-wife and provincial police.
> 
> CBC News has obtained a copy of the statement of claim filed by Laurie Massicotte in the Superior Court of Justice on Friday for damages, including pain, suffering and emotional and mental distress stemming from her assault by Williams in September 2009 ....


----------



## Loachman

Haggis said:
			
		

> I came to know Kevin West when he was Commandant of the NCMPDC in St. Jean.  I absolutely CANNOT fathom what he went through.  The CDS Commendation, while well deserved, is a pittance compared to what the CF truly owes this professional airman, a true credit to our NCO corps.



He was the JTF-Afghanistan Air Wing CWO during my last tour. Yes,  a most excellent man who did a great job in both positions.


----------



## The Bread Guy

> A soon-to-be released book about the crimes of former Canadian military commander Russell Williams may be turned into a feature film.
> 
> Richard Lowry Productions Inc. has acquired the rights to Camouflaged Killer: The Shocking Double Life of Canadian Air Force Colonel Russell Williams by David A. Gibb.
> 
> Gibb, a former private investigator turned journalist, delved into the psychology of Williams, a seemingly normal and responsible man who was convicted of killing two women in Eastern Ontario. The book is to be released by Penguin Group Canada on Oct. 4.
> 
> For his book, Gibb investigated Williams’s background, and talked to psychologists, profilers, and forensic investigators about the man who is now serving two life terms for murder.
> 
> (....)
> 
> Lowry is best known for his Emmy-nominated mini-series, To Catch a Killer, which starred Brian Dennehy as serial killer John Wayne Gacy.
> 
> He referred to Williams as a "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" character, saying the public is fascinated with “duality of personality.” ....


The Canadian Press, 27 Sept 11


----------



## The Bread Guy

> A man who lived next door to Russell Williams in eastern Ontario is suing the serial sex killer, a neighbour and local police for wrongfully implicating him in the former military commander's crimes.  Larry Jones and his wife, Bonnie, filed their $1,575,000 suit late Friday in Peterborough, Ont.  Jones is suing Williams for the emotional and mental distress suffered as the subject of an intense police investigation, while Williams did nothing to alert police that they had the wrong man .... Also named in the suit are neighbour Laurie Massicotte, Jones's former in-law, Jonas Kelly, the Ontario Provincial Police and police overseers in connection with the search of the Jones family home and the tarnishing of Larry Jones's reputation in the Ontario community of Tweed.  "Why haven't I got an apology for what they did? It was totally wrong what they did," Larry Jones told CBC News in an exclusive interview at his home Sunday.  "It's pretty upsetting — still to this day — and it will be until the day I die. I want to let everybody in the country know … we had nothing to do with this. It's probably the worst day of my life the day police came to my house."  The statement of claim contains allegations that have not been proven in court ....


CBC.ca, 28 Nov 11


----------



## vonGarvin

You have GOT to be kidding me...



> Jones is suing Williams for the emotional and mental distress suffered as the subject of an intense police investigation, while* Williams did nothing to alert police that they had the wrong man*



"I say there, officer, I know, with 100% certainty, that Mr. Jones is not the man you seek.  How do I know this?  Er....ah...."


FFS.  Does this guy really think that a perverted, sick and twisted criminal such as Williams should have alerted the police?  I mean, was that the worst thing he did?  


Some people's children....or neighbours, in this case.


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## Journeyman

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Some people's children....or neighbours, in this case.


...or the society, with willing legal assistance, that views spurious lawsuits as an alternative to buying lottery tickets.    :


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## aesop081

Journeyman said:
			
		

> ...or the society, with willing legal assistance, that views spurious lawsuits as an alternative to buying lottery tickets.    :



_"get rich the American way : Sue somebody !"_


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## Bruce Monkhouse

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/01/17/19257696.html
Russell Williams' wife fights $7M lawsuit 

By Luke Hendry, QMI AGENCY 

BELLEVILLE, Ont. – The estranged wife of convicted killer Russell Williams has filed a statement of defence against a lawsuit launched by one of her ex-husband's sexual assault victims. 
In a document filed at the Ontario Superior Court of Justice in Belleville, Ont., Mary Elizabeth Harriman refutes all claims made against her by Laurie Massicotte. 

“We’re going to vigourously defend the claims set out against Mary Elizabeth Harriman,” Mary-Jane Binks, Harriman’s Ottawa lawyer, told QMI Agency. 
“We think there’s no basis whatsoever. The revelation of what transpired with respect to former colonel Williams has been devastating (to Harriman). 
“I’m acting for a courageous lady — a very good and courageous lady.” 

Massicotte’s lawyer, David Ross of Belleville, was unavailable for comment Tuesday.    

Williams is serving life in prison. He was convicted in October 2010 of attacking Massicotte and another Tweed, Ont., woman, and of killing Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, of Brighton, Ont., and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville. 
He was also convicted of committing dozens of break-and-enters and thefts in Belleville, Tweed and Ottawa. 

Massicotte filed a statement of claim on Sept. 23, 2011, seeking monetary damages against Williams, Harriman and the Ontario Provincial Police. She and her three daughters, who are also named as plaintiffs in her lawsuit, are seeking $7 million. 
They allege Harriman committed a fraudulent transfer and/or disposal of assets when she and Williams made a domestic contract in March 2010. 

Their claims have not been proven in court. 

“Harriman expressly denies any intention to defeat the claims of any creditors of the defendant Williams,” according to the statement of defence. 
Harriman is the associate executive director of the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada. She and Williams are in the midst of divorce proceedings in an Ottawa court. 
“Her stature in the community is exemplary,” her defence states. “Harriman is secure in her employment, has strong ties to the Ottawa community and there are no grounds to believe that she is going to abscond from the jurisdiction.” 

It adds the “conveyance was not made secretly but was duly registered” and was done strictly to ensure her financial security. 
“There was no unusual haste to make the conveyance in light of all the circumstances facing Harriman and Williams,” it reads. “There is nothing untoward or suspicious about the transfer.” 

The file states she has “no knowledge” of many of the claims and “expressly denies the plaintiffs are entitled to any of the relief sought.” 

Harriman has made a motion to seal details of her professional life, personal finances and legal affairs disclosed in another civil suit, filed by Jane Doe, Williams’ other surviving sexual assault victim. That motion is now in a state of temporary suspension, Binks said. 

Harriman’s statement of defence against Massicotte indicates she will also move to seal details in the Massicotte case, which is to be tried in Belleville. 

Binks said it’s unclear how long the civil suits will take to resolve. 
“I can’t venture an estimate at this time.”


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## krustyrl

> BELLEVILLE, Ont. - The family of a woman murdered by convicted sex killer Russell Williams is suing the former military commander and his estranged wife.
> 
> Williams, who was once a rising star in the Canadian Forces, was sentenced to life in prison in October 2010 after pleading guilty to the murders of Jessica Lloyd and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau.
> 
> Lloyd's brother, Andy, says he and Lloyd's mother, Roxanne, have filed a statement of claim in Belleville's Ontario Superior Court of Justice which, among other details, seeks damages for the mental suffering they say they've had to endure.
> 
> Andy Lloyd, 31, says the family wants a fast resolution to the suit so that they can put the experience behind them and move on with their lives.
> 
> He says the last two years have been "quite a struggle" and both he and his mother are seeing counsellors for the depression they've had to deal with.



More on link.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/murder-victims-family-sues-convicted-sex-killer-russell-williams-and-his-wife-138172929.html


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## Bruce Monkhouse

At least they stayed in-house.............................

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/09/killer-colonel-image-used-in-dnd-promo-booklet


BELLEVILLE, ONT. -  
Canada’s defence department has recalled an internal booklet after discovering it contained a photo of convicted sex killer and ex-colonel Russell Williams.

“This is a terrible mistake for which the Canadian Forces are truly sorry,” Defence Minister Peter MacKay said in a written statement.
“As soon as I became aware of this booklet, I immediately ordered the military to destroy all copies of the collected booklets,” MacKay said.
He promised a personal apology to the families of two local women killed by the disgraced airman.
“I have also instructed my officials to immediately begin an investigation to ensure it does not happen again,” MacKay said in the statement.

Williams, now 49, was imprisoned for life after pleading guilty in October 2010 to killing two women, attacking two more and committing a years-long series of break-ins and fetish thefts between Ottawa and Belleville.
His most severe crimes were committed while Williams commanded CFB Trenton, Canada’s largest air force base.

Yet he appears in the background in the first edition of a new professional development booklet produced last week by the Canadian Defence Academy, a branch of the federal Department of National Defence. A copy of the booklet was obtained by QMI Agency.
A military spokesman said the booklet was never released fully — and never will be.

“We’ve recalled the booklet because of an editorial oversight,” Lt.-Cmdr. John Williston, the academy’s public affairs officer, told QMI Agency.
“It has been completely recalled. It was only distributed within the headquarters and to a few others and we are in the process of redoing it,” Williston said.
Williams is one of more than a dozen recognizable people in the photo, which was shot Jan. 15, 2010, by a corporal at CFB Trenton.
By then, the base commander had killed Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, his former squadronmate, and had amassed a collection of undergarments and photos from his break-ins.

Williams killed 27-year-old Jessica Lloyd of Belleville less than three weeks after the Trenton photo was taken.
Andy Lloyd, her elder brother, said he was unaware of the issue until contacted by QMI Agency.
“I don’t even know what to say,” Lloyd said.

“I was kind of hoping they would have destroyed all the images they had of him in uniform, just like they destroyed his uniform,” he said.
Lloyd has in the past voiced support for the military but said the image’s publication was a further insult to his family.

“Accidents do happen ... but that’s a pretty big boo-boo,” he said. “We’re not very impressed with it.”
The Canadian Defence Academy is an umbrella agency overseeing a variety of training and professional development programs, including Royal Military Colleges in Ontario and Quebec and language training.

The glossy, thin booklet is titled, “I am a member of the profession of arms.”
Williston said it was intended to support professional development programs in a post-Afghanistan military and help explain what it means to be a member of the Canadian Forces.
Defence spokeswoman Amber Bineau said the booklet may have been printed by a civilian firm, but defence staff designed it.

“It was a publication that was done in-house,” Bineau said.
The colourful pages show images of military life and list tenets of leadership, such as “every member becomes a leader” and “every member is a mentor.”

Williams’ face is tiny, appearing in a photo measuring 6.5 cm by 3 cm, one of several on a page opposite a page entitled “Lead and serve.”
He’s neither mentioned in the caption nor the focus of the photo — but he’s clearly recognizable in it. Dressed in a blue air force uniform, he’s seated and looking with a neutral expression at Lt-Gen. Andre Deschamps, head of Canada’s air force.

Williston said the gaffe “was noticed right away” after the first box arrived at academy headquarters. The recall was immediate, he said.
“There were only a couple of hundred actual ones that were released and we’re trying to retrieve those for obvious reasons.”

Keyword searches of the military’s Combat Camera photo archive haven’t yielded any images of Williams since soon after his arrest in February 2010. It was not known if any other pictures of Williams exist among the thousands of archived files.
In November 2010, military officials retrieved Williams’ military possessions— including uniforms, certificates and even manuals — and destroyed them.

One month later, Williams was ejected from the military. He’s now serving his time at the Kingston Penitentiary.


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## Colin Parkinson

You can bet that someone is going to be assigned to purge their files of any picture of him. Not an easy task if there is no tag or note with the picture.


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## Journeyman

Maybe we should have the entire Department and Canadian Forces down tools for a day, have a 100% stand-to, and search through every file, folder, and Dilbert cartoon for the Somalia documents pictures of Williams.


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## Nemo888

It is rather perplexing to think of how good he was at his job. I always picture these killers as jobless drifters. I think Charlie Manson, not someone I rubbed shoulders with at the Canex and saluted.


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## The Bread Guy

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Maybe we should have the entire Department and Canadian Forces down tools for a day, have a 100% stand-to, and search through every file, folder, and Dilbert cartoon for the Somalia documents pictures of Williams.


One can never be _too_ cautious, after all....


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## Wookilar

Don't even make jokes like that. Someone else will remember and think it's a good idea  :facepalm:

What a waste of time and effort that was.  :warstory: Going through maint vehicle files in 1 Svc, I didn't find too many files having anything to do with anywhere in Africa.


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## jollyjacktar

Wookilar said:
			
		

> Don't even make jokes like that. Someone else will remember and think it's a good idea  :facepalm:
> 
> What a waste of time and effort that was.  :warstory: Going through maint vehicle files in 1 Svc, I didn't find too many files having anything to do with anywhere in Africa.


I don't know.  We had a grand old time giving the adults fits and shits with lots of false positives during the hunt.  The looks on their faces when I told them "not to worry I shredded everything I had just recently found" was priceless.


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## armyvern

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I don't know.  We had a grand old time giving the adults fits and shits with lots of false positives during the hunt.  The looks on their faces when I told them "not to worry I shredded everything I had just recently found" was priceless.



I have an etched sign that I take with me each posting. I hang it up just above my shredder (aka: the fax machine to NDHQ); it reads, "LCol Oliver North Memorial Shredder". Young troops don't get it at all. And, those who are as old as I am can sometimes get the most horrified looks upon their faces. Interesting indeed.  ;D


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## Journeyman

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> "LCol Oliver North Memorial Shredder"


  :rofl:


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## jollyjacktar

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I have an etched sign that I take with me each posting. I hang it up just above my shredder (aka: the fax machine to NDHQ); it reads, "LCol Oliver North Memorial Shredder". Young troops don't get it at all. And, those who are as old as I am can sometimes get the most horrified looks upon their faces. Interesting indeed.  ;D


Oh yeah, the kids would not know WTF you were referring to.   ;D

The kids.  I was watching "Hot Shots" while at sea down south.  I had to try and explain for example who "Bogey" was.  There is a scene where Charlie Sheen says he has a bogie at 12 o'clock.  Cut to the other aircraft and there is Humphrey... that and some of the other references.  Well needless to say, I felt so friggin ancient.  But damn it all, that movie is only 25 years old...  :brickwall:


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## OldSolduer

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I have an etched sign that I take with me each posting. I hang it up just above my shredder (aka: the fax machine to NDHQ); it reads, "LCol Oliver North Memorial Shredder". Young troops don't get it at all. And, those who are as old as I am can sometimes get the most horrified looks upon their faces. Interesting indeed.  ;D



I bow to your genius.... :bowing:


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## Maxadia

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, the kids would not know WTF you were referring to.   ;D
> 
> The kids.  I was watching "Hot Shots" while at sea down south.  I had to try and explain for example who "Bogey" was.  There is a scene where Charlie Sheen says he has a bogie at 12 o'clock.  Cut to the other aircraft and there is Humphrey... that and some of the other references.  Well needless to say, I felt so friggin ancient.  But damn it all, that movie is only 25 years old...  :brickwall:



I spit my beer out the first time I watched that when it came out on video....


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## Fishbone Jones

I'm sure everyone realizes,

THE MORE YOU USE HIS NAME AND REPORT ON HIM, THE MORE HIS NAME GETS OUT THERE AND LIVES ON INFAMY.

EVERY TIME YOU USE HIS NAME, IT BECOMES ANOTHER MILNET.CA HIT, KEEPING HIS NAME ALIVE ON THE INTERNET. IT LINKS BACK TO US!

WE NEED NO ARTICLES ON THE SUBJECT. PLEASE DON'T POST ABOUT HIM.

HE IS A PERSON THE CF FINDS DISGUSTING AND ABHORRENT. WE BURNED HIS UNIFORMS, CERTIFICATES, COMMEDATIONS, PICTURES, ETC.

UNLESS HE DIES, WE HAVE NO NEED TO SPEAK OF HIM.

PLEASE RESPECT THAT, FROM HERE ON IN.

If I see anything else about this perverted piece of shit, I'll  delete  it.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Maxadia

recceguy said:
			
		

> If I see anything else about this perverted piece of crap, I'll  delete  it.
> 
> Milnet.ca Staff



Why not throw the name into the word censor?


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## Retired AF Guy

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, the kids would not know WTF you were referring to.   ;D
> 
> The kids.  I was watching "Hot Shots" while at sea down south.  I had to try and explain for example who "Bogey" was.  There is a scene where Charlie Sheen says he has a bogie at 12 o'clock.  Cut to the other aircraft and there is Humphrey... that and some of the other references.  Well needless to say, I felt so friggin ancient.  But damn it all, that movie is only 25 years old...  :brickwall:





			
				RDJP said:
			
		

> I spit my beer out the first time I watched that when it came out on video....



Watched it the other night ... still laughed out load.  ;D


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## the 48th regulator

Locked, just like the reprobates cell door...

dileas

tess

milnet.ca staff


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