# Millennials leading increased Remembrance Day attendance



## McG (7 Nov 2017)

Millennials are leading the stats suggesting more Canadians will attend Remembrance Day ceremonies this year. And CAF speaking programs may be a contributing factor. Good.  

http://torontosun.com/news/national/millennials-most-likely-to-attend-remembrance-day-ceremonies-poll

It seems that some older generations would rather just wear a poppy and not be bothered with attending a ceremony.


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Nov 2017)

Saw that, I wonder if the spike is caused by members of that generation going to Afghanistan and therefore they can relate to those veterans?


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## dimsum (7 Nov 2017)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Saw that, I wonder if the spike is caused by members of that generation going to Afghanistan and therefore they can relate to those veterans?



I'd suspect that was part of the case.  When I was in school, the Remembrance Day ceremonies always had a part where they emphasized that the fallen were mostly young men.  Now, they don't need to be reminded of that.  

I think social media has a part to play as well in raising awareness.


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## McG (7 Nov 2017)

The Toronto Sun offers an opinion of the Prime Minister being one who will be skipping the Remembrance Day ceremonies.  

http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/1106-bonokoski

I hope/anticipate that the PM does find a way to appropriately mark the occasion at the appropriate local time.  But I can't disagree with the sentiment that 11 Nov is one of those days that the PM should be performing his public duty in Canada.


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## Loachman (7 Nov 2017)

The Remembrance Day Speaker Programme at schools may well be a large influence. I've been participating in that for many years. Many of the kids who've been beneficiaries of that are now out in the wild.

I'll be at my old high School's service on Thursday, and addressing the Grade Ten History Class on Friday.

I get more out of it than they do, though.


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## jollyjacktar (7 Nov 2017)

Not surprised he's ditching his responsibilities like this.  Must be some awesome selfie opportunities there.


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## mariomike (8 Nov 2017)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> When I was in school, the Remembrance Day ceremonies always had a part where they emphasized that the fallen were mostly young men.  Now, they don't need to be reminded of that.



When I was in school ( 1959-1972 ) most of our fathers had been in the war. On one side or the other. 

My 21 year old uncle was MIA/KIA over Occupied France, so through my father and grand-parents I remembered.

Toronto back then had a much smaller population than it does now, and the 6,160 Torontonians killed in the World Wars and Korea were still remembered by many during my school years.

When I saw this street map many years later, the impact on the city - and other places across Canada - became more clear,
https://globalnews.ca/news/932833/griefs-geography-mapping-torontonians-killed-three-wars/

They must have been hanging crepe up and down the streets. 



			
				Dimsum said:
			
		

> I think social media has a part to play as well in raising awareness.



No social media when I went to school. But, my grandmother showed me the Western Union telegrams.


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## Jarnhamar (8 Nov 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Not surprised he's ditching his responsibilities like this.  Must be some awesome selfie opportunities there.



I was going to make a joke about Hanoi being picturesque but in hindsight it's not funny and neither is our PM jetting out of country before November 11th.

Cant help but think it's a calculated move to distance himself from the military.

Hope I'm wrong.


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## OldSolduer (8 Nov 2017)

MCG said:
			
		

> The Toronto Sun offers an opinion of the Prime Minister being one who will be skipping the Remembrance Day ceremonies.
> 
> http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/1106-bonokoski
> 
> I hope/anticipate that the PM does find a way to appropriately mark the occasion at the appropriate local time.  But I can't disagree with the sentiment that 11 Nov is one of those days that the PM should be performing his public duty in Canada.



I agree with your sentiment but I will lay off him if shows up and attends in Hong Kong to pay homage to soldiers of the Winnipeg Grenadiers, The Royal Regiment of Canada and the rest of the soldiers from that debacle.


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## jollyjacktar (8 Nov 2017)

Agreed


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## Strike (9 Nov 2017)

Going to my old high school to speak.  I've got the canned presentation, but then added picture and info at the end of every person I've known, in whatever form, that has died while in service since I've been in.  Also made a point of highlighting every casualty from my deployment - 18 deaths and 9 ramp ceremonies in 5 months.

The fact that there are still staff at the school that were working there when I was young, I think this current generation still has quite a link to everything that happened in the past 20 years.


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## Blackadder1916 (9 Nov 2017)

MCG said:
			
		

> The Toronto Sun offers an opinion of the Prime Minister being one who will be skipping the Remembrance Day ceremonies.
> 
> http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/1106-bonokoski
> 
> I hope/anticipate that the PM does find a way to appropriately mark the occasion at the appropriate local time.  But I can't disagree with the sentiment that 11 Nov is one of those days that the PM should be performing his public duty in Canada.





			
				Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> I agree with your sentiment but I will lay off him if shows up and attends in Hong Kong to pay homage to soldiers of the Winnipeg Grenadiers, The Royal Regiment of Canada and the rest of the soldiers from that debacle.





			
				jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Not surprised he's ditching his responsibilities like this.  Must be some awesome selfie opportunities there.





			
				Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I was going to make a joke about Hanoi being picturesque but in hindsight it's not funny and neither is our PM jetting out of country before November 11th.
> 
> Cant help but think it's a calculated move to distance himself from the military.
> 
> Hope I'm wrong.



I suppose it starts with the linked article opinion piece by Mark Bonokowski, but then, facts should never get in the way of expressing contrary opinions about those we dislike.  While Mr. Bonokowski seemingly went out of his way to avoid any mention of "why" the Prime Minister would not be attending Remembrance Day ceremonies in Ottawa this year, one would think that at least someone on these means would have previously stated that Mr. Trudeau is attending the annual Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Economic Leaders (read head of state/government) meeting before they insinuated that the current Prime Minister must surely have chosen these dates to be away because of some lack of feeling for the military and veterans.  Maybe we should pop into the time machine and go back to the occasions (two . . maybe more?) that the previous PM was also away attending the same forum over the Nov 11 timeframe.  How many complaints were made about him?

The APEC meetings have always been scheduled in the Sept to Nov time frame.  This year's is scheduled 10-11 Nov; at least one previous used the same dates and there have been a few others when the dates for the conference either began/ended the day before or day after Remembrance Day.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if the other countries in APEC had such affection for the few (minority) countries in the group that recognize Nov 11 as a day of national recognition that they took it into account when scheduling.  Even among that minority a couple have a date that is of greater import in recognizing their war dead (Australia - ANZAC Day, USA - Memorial Day); wonder what reactions are in those countries about their leaders being away on the Eleventh.

I suppose PM Trudeau could just tell his fellow leaders in APEC to "go f*** themselves because he has to attend a ceremony for a couple of hours in Ottawa" and that Canada doesn't really care about trade in the Pacific Rim.  Yeah, that works for me.


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## Old Sweat (9 Nov 2017)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> I agree with your sentiment but I will lay off him if shows up and attends in Hong Kong to pay homage to soldiers of the Winnipeg Grenadiers, The Royal Regiment of Canada and the rest of the soldiers from that debacle.



It was The Royal Rifles of Canada, not The Royal Regiment of Canada. Slip of the fingers, I'm sure.


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## jollyjacktar (9 Nov 2017)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> I suppose it starts with the linked article opinion piece by Mark Bonokowski, but then, facts should never get in the way of expressing contrary opinions about those we dislike.  While Mr. Bonokowski seemingly went out of his way to avoid any mention of "why" the Prime Minister would not be attending Remembrance Day ceremonies in Ottawa this year, one would think that at least someone on these means would have previously stated that Mr. Trudeau is attending the annual Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Economic Leaders (read head of state/government) meeting before they insinuated that the current Prime Minister must surely have chosen these dates to be away because of some lack of feeling for the military and veterans.  Maybe we should pop into the time machine and go back to the occasions (two . . maybe more?) that the previous PM was also away attending the same forum over the Nov 11 timeframe.  How many complaints were made about him?
> 
> The APEC meetings have always been scheduled in the Sept to Nov time frame.  This year's is scheduled 10-11 Nov; at least one previous used the same dates and there have been a few others when the dates for the conference either began/ended the day before or day after Remembrance Day.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if the other countries in APEC had such affection for the few (minority) countries in the group that recognize Nov 11 as a day of national recognition that they took it into account when scheduling.  Even among that minority a couple have a date that is of greater import in recognizing their war dead (Australia - ANZAC Day, USA - Memorial Day); wonder what reactions are in those countries about their leaders being away on the Eleventh.
> 
> I suppose PM Trudeau could just tell his fellow leaders in APEC to "go f*** themselves because he has to attend a ceremony for a couple of hours in Ottawa" and that Canada doesn't really care about trade in the Pacific Rim.  Yeah, that works for me.



Well, you're not surprised either.  If l am, its because he has a valid hall pass.  Bet there's still some awesone selfie opportunities to be had nevertheless.


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## Towards_the_gap (9 Nov 2017)

Strike said:
			
		

> Going to my old high school to speak.  I've got the canned presentation, but then added picture and info at the end of every person I've known, in whatever form, that has died while in service since I've been in.  Also made a point of highlighting every casualty from my deployment - 18 deaths and 9 ramp ceremonies in 5 months.
> 
> The fact that there are still staff at the school that were working there when I was young, I think this current generation still has quite a link to everything that happened in the past 20 years.




I gave a 40min presentation to about 100 7/8 graders at the local school......As I was setting up, the teacher admits to me 'You know, when I tell them about Afghanistan I tell them about how it was peacekeeping'......me, thinking about the helmet cam video of a .50 firing from our rooftop OP during a TIC.." Yeah it wasn't really peacekeeping, you have to make peace (through superior firepower I thought to myself) in order to keep it....."


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## Colin Parkinson (9 Nov 2017)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> I agree with your sentiment but I will lay off him if shows up and attends in Hong Kong to pay homage to soldiers of the Winnipeg Grenadiers, The Royal Regiment of Canada and the rest of the soldiers from that debacle.



Exactly what I was thinking, if his PR people were smart they work this in as a "surprise visit" to honour those troops. We will see if they are that smart.


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## jollyjacktar (10 Nov 2017)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/apec-trans-pacific-summit-leaders-1.4396312



			
				Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> I suppose PM Trudeau could just tell his fellow leaders in APEC to "go f*** themselves because he has to attend a ceremony for a couple of hours in Ottawa" and that Canada doesn't really care about trade in the Pacific Rim.  Yeah, that works for me.



It appears he cannot show to these important meetings either.  So much for his "needing to be there" argument, he doesn't seem to think he needs to be.  Guess he did indeed tell them to go f*** themselves.     :turkey:


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## Journeyman (10 Nov 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/apec-trans-pacific-summit-leaders-1.4396312
> 
> It appears he cannot show to these important meetings either.  So much for his "needing to be there" argument, he doesn't seem to think he needs to be.   :turkey:


Priorities.  Our PM, Justin Kardashian, _did_  keep his meeting with Sheryl Sandberg, the chief operating officer of Facebook.


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## FSTO (10 Nov 2017)

I'm going to my first Remembrance Day Ceremony at the National War Memorial. 
I am glad that the current PM will not be there.


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## walrath (10 Nov 2017)

I didn't realize it was the PM's duty to be at the War Memorial downtown Ottawa on Remembrance Day every year without exception. I don't think the organizers of the APEC summit factored in the ceremonies at the war memorial into their planning cycle.


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## Journeyman (10 Nov 2017)

walrath said:
			
		

> I didn't realize it was the PM's duty to be at the War Memorial downtown Ottawa on Remembrance Day every year without exception. I don't think the organizers of the APEC summit factored in the ceremonies at the war memorial into their planning cycle.


I'm personally not concerned if he's there or not;  the ceremonies aren't about him (also I have several, more significant reasons to be unhappy with his governance).  I thought that the Sun opinion piece that started all this was a pretty pathetic effort, more appropriate to the Fox network.

My bashing in this thread is entirely because he's _supposed_  to be representing Canada at some high-stakes (for Canadian economy and employment) trade meetings;  given his previous lack of significant employment and his proclivity for selfies, I'm not remotely surprised that he considered the Facebook COO a more worthy use of his time.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Nov 2017)

[quote author=Blackadder1916]

I suppose PM Trudeau could just tell his fellow leaders in APEC to "go f*** themselves because he has to attend a ceremony for a couple of hours in Ottawa" and that Canada doesn't really care about trade in the Pacific Rim.  Yeah, that works for me.
[/quote]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/apec-trans-pacific-summit-leaders-1.4396312

ooops.
Glad he made it to Facebook though. I wonder what they talked about.


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## RocketRichard (10 Nov 2017)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I'm personally not concerned if he's there or not;  the ceremonies aren't about him (also I have several, more significant reasons to be unhappy with his governance).  I thought that the Sun opinion piece that started all this was a pretty pathetic effort, more appropriate to the Fox network.
> 
> My bashing in this thread is entirely because he's _supposed_  to be representing Canada at some high-stakes (for Canadian economy and employment) trade meetings;  given his previous lack of significant employment and his proclivity for selfies, I'm not remotely surprised that he considered the Facebook COO a more worthy use of his time.



I'm not sure what the 'previous lack of significant employment' means.  Is this an example of fake news?


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## Stoker (10 Nov 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/apec-trans-pacific-summit-leaders-1.4396312
> 
> It appears he cannot show to these important meetings either.  So much for his "needing to be there" argument, he doesn't seem to think he needs to be.  Guess he did indeed tell them to go f*** themselves.     :turkey:



Perhaps he's self medicating


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## dapaterson (10 Nov 2017)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> My bashing in this thread is entirely because he's _supposed_  to be representing Canada at some high-stakes (for Canadian economy and employment) trade meetings;  *given his previous lack of significant employment* and his proclivity for selfies, I'm not remotely surprised that he considered the Facebook COO a more worthy use of his time.



Well, if you think teaching isn't significant employment... at least he's not a career politician like the leaders of the other two political parties.

Personally, I'm still a die-hard Rhino supporter...


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## Stoker (10 Nov 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Well, if you think teaching isn't significant employment... at least he's not a career politician like the leaders of the other two political parties.
> 
> Personally, I'm still a die-hard Rhino supporter...



To be honest 3 years as part substitute teacher is not what I call good prep for leading the people of Canada, although perhaps it is.....especially in regards to his drama experience.


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## Blackadder1916 (10 Nov 2017)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> It appears he cannot show to these important meetings either.  So much for his "needing to be there" argument, he doesn't seem to think he needs to be.  Guess he did indeed tell them to go f*** themselves.     :turkey:



There was more than the TPP going on at APEC.  After all, only eleven of the twenty-one APEC nations (my numbers may be off one or two, but I'm too lazy at the moment to do the research) are still in TPP negotiations.  That being said, sometimes one has to be in location to tell others to go f*** themselves.  It can be a good negotiating tactic.  While there is probably more to the story, at first glance it appears that instead of the TPP negotiations collapsing because of Trudeau not showing up at the meeting, consensus on "core elements" (in public at least) has now been reached.  The intransigence of a few countries to accept these core elements as previously agreed to was supposedly one of the reason that he skipped the meeting.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tpp-apec-summit-talks-1.4396984


> Breaking
> TPP partners reach agreement on 'core elements' of Pacific trade deal, Canada says
> By John Paul Tasker, CBC News  Posted: Nov 10, 2017 12:14 PM ET| Last Updated: Nov 10, 2017 1:27 PM ET
> 
> ...



Now, we just have to wait and see if the deal holds, or if the Canadian version of unfolding events is correct.  If so, then "well played".  However, I'm still not a total fan of the TPP as it is currently written.


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## Journeyman (10 Nov 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Well, if you think teaching isn't significant employment...


Are you referring to his occasional stint as a substitute math teacher when a full-time teacher called in sick, or his time as a snowboarding and white-water rafting instructor?


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## Blackadder1916 (10 Nov 2017)

And to temporarily suspend the time honoured sport of Trudeau insulting, a brief return to what he will be doing on Remembrance Day in terms of ceremony attendance.

https://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2017/11/09/update-itinerary-november-10-and-11-2017



> Itinerary for the Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, for Saturday, November 11, 2017:  (all times local - it is now around 0230 hrs, Nov 11 in Vietnam https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/vietnam/da-nang)
> 
> 6:30 p.m. The Prime Minister will participate in a Ceremony of Remembrance.
> 
> ...


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## RocketRichard (10 Nov 2017)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Are you referring to his occasional stint as a substitute math teacher when a full-time teacher called in sick, or his time as a snowboarding and white-water rafting instructor?



He was a teacher.  I get it, you have an issue with the PM. If you have a problem with him being a teacher as well, that's your own personal issue.


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## Journeyman (10 Nov 2017)

RocketRichard said:
			
		

> He was a teacher.  I get it, you have an issue with the PM. If you have a problem with him being a teacher as well, that's your own personal issue.


Well gosh, that's pretty magnanimous of you. Thank you for allowing me my opinion.

However, my "issue" is not remotely with teachers -- I actually know a few --it's believing that governing the country requires more skill-sets than are acquired as a snowboard instructor.

"He's just not ready"... still.  Obviously.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Nov 2017)

In retrospect (and apology) I shouldn't have suggested he planned to miss remembrance day on purpose or that it was calculated. 
I firmly believe his PR team (I'm not sure the polite word or term for handlers?) are very good at what they do, that's all. If he's out of the country for 11 November I'm confident his team planned something clever.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Nov 2017)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> And to temporarily suspend the time honoured sport of Trudeau insulting, a brief return to what he will be doing on Remembrance Day in terms of ceremony attendance.
> 
> https://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2017/11/09/update-itinerary-november-10-and-11-2017



Link comes up as



> We couldn't find that Web page
> 
> We're sorry you ended up here. Sometimes a page gets moved or deleted, but hopefully we can help you find what you're looking for. What next?


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## jollyjacktar (10 Nov 2017)

:rofl:  the weapons of mass destruction can't be found...... Loved that search result back in the Bush leagues too


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## Blackadder1916 (10 Nov 2017)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Link comes up as



Well, you could have continued reading the next line which said "◾Return to the home page" and then opened "Itinerary for Saturday, November 11, 2017", or . . .

Try   https://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/itineraries  and open 11 November.


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## Jarnhamar (11 Nov 2017)

You're right, I could have. Thanks for the help.  I was reading some interesting stuff about the dealing going on over there but I'll save it for a more appropriate thread.


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## Colin Parkinson (14 Nov 2017)

As mentioned a quick trip to Hong Kong to remember our losses there would have hit the right tone and be worth a lot of brownie points with wavering voters, his staff decided to let a opportunity slide on by. These meetings are planned months in advance, telling others that you won't be available for 2 days to take part in a national ceremony would be accepted and accommodated.


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## jollyjacktar (14 Nov 2017)

I think the Apple didn't fall far from the tree with his views on the military.  Like father, like son.


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## a_majoor (16 Nov 2017)

On a more positive note, it is warming to see an increase in Millennials (or indeed anyone) attending Remembrance day ceremonies, and it certainly goes against a lot of decades worth of anti-war and anti military "narrative", so the fact people are slowly rejecting the narrative is good to know.

I always like to go back to my namesake on Remembrance day, and think on the meaning of the "Funeral Oration", especially this part:



> “What I would prefer is you should fix your eyes every day on the greatness of Athens as she really is, and fall in love with her. When you realize her greatness, then reflect what made her great were men with a spirit of adventure, men who knew their duty, men who were ashamed to fall below a certain standard. If they ever failed in an enterprise, they made up their minds that at any rate the city would not find their courage lacking to her, and they gave to her the best contribution that they could. They gave her their lives, to her and to all of us, and for their own selves they won praises that never grow old, the most splendid of sepulchers- not the sepulcher where their body is laid but where their glory remains eternal in men’s minds, always there on the right occasion to stir others to speech or to action.”



Lets hope that they are perhaps becoming those men and women with "a spirit of adventure" as well.


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## BDTyre (17 Nov 2017)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I gave a 40min presentation to about 100 7/8 graders at the local school......As I was setting up, the teacher admits to me 'You know, when I tell them about Afghanistan I tell them about how it was peacekeeping'......me, thinking about the helmet cam video of a .50 firing from our rooftop OP during a TIC.." Yeah it wasn't really peacekeeping, you have to make peace (through superior firepower I thought to myself) in order to keep it....."



I gave a 40-minute talk to 150 kids (not sure of the age range, but probably 15 to 18) and didn't once mention peacekeeping other than to say that today Remembrance Day is to honour the fallen of WWI, WWII and all subsequent wars and peacekeeping operations. I made no bones about what goes on overseas and included a video of my callsign almost being blown up.

What really impacted these kids was when I mentioned that not all those killed on my deployment were career army; especially noting that one was a high school teacher and one was barely out of high school (I actually had one of the teachers thank me for mentioning Zach McCormack as she knew the family). I think that got to them more than some 70-year old from the Legion telling them a lot of the dead in WWII were not much older than them.

This year it seemed that more of the kids (and teachers) thanked me than when I did this two years ago...but it was a significantly bigger school.


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## pbi (24 Jan 2018)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> On a more positive note, it is warming to see an increase in Millennials (or indeed anyone) attending Remembrance day ceremonies, and it certainly goes against a lot of decades worth of anti-war and anti military "narrative", so the fact people are slowly rejecting the narrative is good to know.



Excellent quote from your namesake, but I have a bit of a different view on how young Canadians view Nov 11. I don't think the current interest is completely new. When I was still in uniform, at least as far back as the late 90's, Remembrance Day speakers were in big demand at schools wherever I was posted.  For example, in the 416-905 (that shocking hive of unpatriotic, multiculturalist, urban latte-sipping elites and whiny self-absorbed suburbanites), I never spoke at a single school where we were not treated with respect and attentiveness by students and staff alike. It was always a great spirit refresher.


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