# PMQs Questions & Answers



## fortuncookie5084 (27 Sep 2002)

I‘m heading off to the Regular Force as an officer cadet.  I‘m wondering about a few things that will affect me once my phases are done and I‘m posted.  How does housing on base work? Is it subsidized (I‘ve heard yes and I‘ve heard no)?  Am I better off living on the economy?  How does the meal plan work in Petawawa?  Thanks...


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## combat_medic (27 Sep 2002)

Housing IS subsidized, but you‘re still paying for it, just at a reduced rate compared to what would be available commercially. However, you‘re still paying rent, and if you want to ever own your home, you‘ll need to go somewhere off the base to do so... as with any base.


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## Doug VT (27 Sep 2002)

Housing(PMQ‘s) isn‘t subsidized.  The rent rates are competitive with the surrounding area now because the civies complained too much.  If you live in a high rent area like Toronto or Vancouver or somewhere(off base) you do receive a posting differential allowance(PDA, used to be AAA) to help ease the strain.  You still pay all your utillities, etc...
If you live in the shacks, the rent is just under $200 and you can eithe be on ration strenth(sort of like a pay as you go, comes off your pay sort of weird system)or not.  Keep in mind that you are forbidden to have any type of heat source in your room, ie. toaster, etc...
Oh, and if the guys mess up the shacks there will be lots of room inspections and weekend barracks duty awaiting you in the future....


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## combat_medic (28 Sep 2002)

Forgot about the PMQs... you know the ones in Borden haven‘t changed since my father lived in them as a child 40 years ago? I guess that‘s not all that surprising. But the PMQ rates in Vancouver are WAY WAY WAY less than renting in the same area. There must be some kind of subsidy in place. Either that or the government is stupid and isn‘t charging much money for valuable property in one of the wealthiest parts of Kitsilano where buying an 800sq ft 1 bdr condo will cost upwards of $250,000


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## Zoomie (28 Sep 2002)

As someone who is presently living in the Q‘s out here in Moose Jaw, I can say with some confidence that the rent DOES vary for each city that you live in.  The exact same row-house here will cost you around $300/month, while in Toronto it will cost upwards of $800/month.  Mind you, in T.O. you will receive a PLD (post living differential) of approximately $1000/month.  So in fact, your rent is pretty much paid for, and shmucks like me get zero PLD and pay the crazy SK income taxes and utility bills.
The system is bit messed, but it is ours to be proud of <GAG>.


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## Recce41 (29 Sep 2002)

PMQ rent is by area.I was paying 450$ in Petawawa bfore posting, the guy next door was paying 730$. In Bordon Qs are 800-910$.Why the market value of the Q. In Petawawa my Q was not redone, it looked like when I lived in them as a kid. My neighbours was all redone. NO there is no suds . just what the Q is worth to rent. I know a WO that pays 900$ for a Q in Vancover why is only worth that. And you cannot raise it more than 5% per yr.
 Q in Moose Jaw may range from 400-600$ its easy to find out just ohone the base CFHA office and ask. It was once by rank you paid not anymore. 
Sgt J  CD,CDS com
Bold and Swift/ AIRBORNE


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## fortuncookie5084 (29 Sep 2002)

Thank you all for helping to clarify this issue!


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## onecat (30 Sep 2002)

Okay here‘s a question?

Once your in and you‘ve finished your QL3, and you shipped out your fist posting; does the CF help you find a place live?  If your QL3 is Kingston and let say shipped to out west, will they help you move your stuff?

I was just reading a posting on a US site they actually have movers that copme and get your stuff and ship it to you.  I know we don‘t have cash for that, what happens here?


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## Zoomie (30 Sep 2002)

Au contraire, mon ami....

The CF will send movers and packers to move all of your belongings and ship it across the country (or World) to your next posting.  This is all covered (ie they pay for it).  You will be briefed as nauseum as to your rights and privledges vis-as-vis Postings.


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## bkirk (18 Aug 2003)

I was wondering if pmq‘s are only if ur married? Is it possible to get one if u have a girlfriend living with you? Or another soldier? Thanks hope ya can let me know sumthin!


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## radop211tc (18 Aug 2003)

PMQ‘s are "Private Married Quarters".
Don‘t quote me on it, but if you are in a common law relationship,you can apply once you sign a Statuatory Declaration, stating you are in said relationship and for x amount of time.
Single with dependent(s) are entitled also.

Here is the link from one of the various Bibles everyone should familiarize thereself with.

 http://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/vol1/ch028_e.asp#28.06 

hope that helps

Tc...
VVV


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## klumanth (18 Aug 2003)

single people can get a pmq too but they will be the lowest on the priority list for them.


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## brneil (25 Feb 2004)

Looks like I will be heading to Toronto on my next post anyone have any idea what the PMQ‘s are like there.  Particularly John Drury Park near Dennison Armoury.

Thanks in advance


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## 1feral1 (25 Feb 2004)

Back in 94, I had come off a course in Bordon, and visited a good friend who was in a MQ out of the Downsview area in TO, before I returned to the west.

I dont know if the CF is still there as I heard Downsview was closing (been out for 9 yrs now, so don‘t know). Anyways it was truly a wartime house slum. 1000 coats of paint, those same hardwood floors, the 2 storey type, you know what I mean.

After owning a home in western Canada, he hated it there, and I am sure he was keen for another posting. It was a terrible place. The run down area, etc.

Hope you dont end up there.


Cheers,


Wes


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## cdn_bakon (26 Feb 2004)

I am a Sgt in Toronto. This is the last CFHA that separates officers from NCOs. The officers generally live in William Baker Park and the NCOs live in Stanley Green Park. Both are within 4-5 KM from Denison Armoury. The officer‘s side are standard PMQ‘s with yards, duplex or single houses, etc. The NCO‘s side are all row housing, no privacy, thin walls and no real yard of your own. NCOs can live on the officers side if they have a requirement for a four bedroom house. The row housing are all two or three bedrooms. If you have no children, you may end up there. Who knows with the Toronto CFHA, its the worst one I‘ve seen or heard about across Canada for support and repairs. I moved here with two kids and an eight month pregnant wife. They said I had to move into a three bedroom, then after a month when my wife gave birth, then I could get a four bedroom. NO THANKS.


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## a23trucker (2 Mar 2004)

There‘s also Oakville....


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## Tpr.Orange (3 Mar 2004)

whats a pmq? 

Im assuming housing but what does it stand for?


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## USSRsovietsnake (2 Aug 2004)

New to forum so if this has been asked sorry, but what is better? or doe sit really depende on what you realy want if someone plans on haivng someone with them or having perosnal stuff with them should they chose an apartment or can they bring thing sinto there base?


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## Michael OLeary (2 Aug 2004)

Some threads that may help:

Post-training living arrangments   --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/17216.0.html

PMQs? What's the deal?   --   http://army.ca/forums/threads/13117.0.html


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## combat_medic (2 Aug 2004)

If you can afford it, owning your own place is always a better bang for your buck than renting. I know one guy who retired from the military after almost 20 years and had to get his first mortgage at the age of 40 because he had been living in PMQs for so long. Real estate always makes a good investment.


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## Inch (2 Aug 2004)

Real estate is a good investment, however, don't jump into something you can't afford. If you get into financial troubles you could be considered an administrative burden and released. The banks will offer you what they think you can afford, they don't take into account bills (except credit cards/loans, that sort of thing), they also don't take into account auto and home insurance, if you've got a few driving convictions and your insurance rates are crazy, then you might be better off living in shacks paying 200 bucks a month or whatever it costs these days.

The shacks are getting better, you'll get better ones as an officer than you would as a no hook Pte. Also the rules are way more laid back for officers, only fire hazard walkthroughs like once every couple months.  Overnight guests aren't permitted usually in singles quarters, but even that rule is starting to get relaxed a bit, you still can't have your girlfriend living with you but if you meet a one night girlfriend, you can usually take her home with you.  In most cases you can bring whatever you want for F&E , except when you're on course. In the end, you'll be better off financially if you stay in shacks until at least your first posting (if you're single of course).

Cheers


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## USSRsovietsnake (3 Aug 2004)

ya so its along the line sof if you have the money go for it kinda thing. But if i say had the money do i go ther eon weekends or everyday when everyone gets there own time befor sleep.


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## AmmoTech90 (3 Aug 2004)

Once you're off course you don't have a lights out time.  If you're in the shacks just don't wake everyone up coming in drunk at 4am or you'll get sorted out one way or another.  You may also have to prove you're financially stable enough to move out.  Most privates in Gagetown get shacks for one year and then get moved out unless they can prove it would cause hardship (shortage of barracks).
I know a private who bought himself a house after 2 years in.  Probably the best thing he did.  Wasn't much, but he can afford it and will probably make money on it.


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## LanceaLot (4 Aug 2004)

> you still can't have your girlfriend living with you but if you meet a one night girlfriend, you can usually take her home with you.


Woo hoo!!! And I was worried for nothing  >


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## Coyote43D (4 Aug 2004)

If you get posted to Gagetown you can apply for enhanced singles quarters which is a three bedroom rowhouse.You can have two buddies move in with you or have it to yourself. Your girlfriend can move in with you but if you get married you're supposed to move out into either a PMQ or out on the economy.


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## meni0n (4 Aug 2004)

How much does that cost a month coyote?


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## Coyote43D (5 Aug 2004)

meni0n said:
			
		

> How much does that cost a month coyote?



Right now it's $330 a month but it's going up $10 in November. You are also have to pay for your utilities (phone,power,heating oil,water)


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## GerryCan (6 Aug 2004)

I would advise getting out of the shacks ASAP if you come to Petawawa. 
Well atleast in the 1RCR shacks...
Monthly inspections, nothing allowed in the common area (and i mean nothing)
The rent just went up again, and to be linked it's well over 300 bucks a month which is a total rip.


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## Dogboy (8 Aug 2004)

I'm just married, and id like to know what, and how good the married living quarters are now days? 
do you have to live on base or can i live in the near town? as a new recrut? 
its a pressing question that my wife has before i sine on.


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## Armymedic (8 Aug 2004)

If you are married, upon completion of your trades training, and once you are posted, you may live in PMQ's, get an apartment or purchase a home. 

Depending where you live really depends on how much it costs for each. 

I live in Petawawa so I can answer for that base.

The PMQ's are small, ranging from 2  bedroom appartments to 4 bedroom stand alone houses. Most here are 3 abd 4 bed room row houses, no further then a 5 min drive from base. Rent is from 450 to 600 a month. 

Civ Apartments are slightly cheaper here.


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## bossdog (9 Aug 2004)

This should help...

http://www.cfha-alfc.forces.gc.ca/


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## SavSC2004 (3 Sep 2004)

I have a simple question about living in PMQ's...if anyone can help me feel free to post!

Firstly, I was wondering if there is a certain amount of time you have to be in the military to be able to live in one of these quarters, and secondly my boyfriend of two years is soon going to be joining the military...we aren't married but if we are common law would we be able to live in a PMQ together??  If so, how much do they cost?

Thank you so much for your help!  

~Sav~


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## Scoobie Newbie (4 Sep 2004)

The cost varies from the $300 to $500.
Commonlaw is fine.
No time in required if you are already commonlaw.  Just availability.  However I think you may have to wait until he passes his basic and trade course and gets posted to a specific base.


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## pbi (4 Sep 2004)

CFL is correct on the access to PMQs, but the cost varies far more than that. In 1998-2002 we lived in PMQs at the Oakville site (about 40km W of Toronto) and we were paying well over 900 dollars a month-these rates have since gone up. I was paying more to rent a PMQ than I pay now to own a house in Winnipeg. The management and pricing of PMQs is no longer done directly by the military. A few years ago we handed this to an "arms-length" business operation. PMQ rents are set in accordance with local housing costs. Therefore while you might get a cheap PMQ in a place like Wainwright, you will not be so lucky in the GTA, Ottawa or Vancouver. Eventually, DND wants to get out of the PMQ game altogether except for isolated posts. Cheers.


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## hiv (4 Sep 2004)

The CFHA cannot charge you more than 25% of your gross family income in PMQ rent, however.


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## Spr.Earl (4 Sep 2004)

There again if available.


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## pbi (4 Sep 2004)

Tribal Jedi said:
			
		

> The CFHA cannot charge you more than 25% of your gross family income in PMQ rent, however.




This is true, and is important in high-rent areas like TO. However, after many years of living in PMQs my advice is to try to make the break to ownership as soon as it is practical for you. For us, because of our postings, this took years but for others it may come quite  early in military life especially if both spouses work. The Army makes ownership very attractive because of the reimbursement of real estate and legal fees and the movement of your furniture and effects. I know that we would never willingly go back to PMQs, and I know other people (and not just rich overpaid officers like me... >) who say the same thing. Cheers.


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## SavSC2004 (4 Sep 2004)

Thank you so much for your help, greatly appreciated  ;D


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## George Wallace (4 Sep 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> ... However, after many years of living in PMQs my advice is to try to make the break to ownership as soon as it is practical for you. For us, because of our postings, this took years but for others it may come quite early in military life especially if both spouses work. The Army makes ownership very attractive because of the reimbursement of real estate and legal fees and the movement of your furniture and effects.



The best advice I got from a Reg Force Sgt when I joined was: "Buy a house on every posting you get, that way when you retire you will own a house."  I was late in buying a house, being in for nine years before being 'forced' to purchase when I was posted to Kingston and found that they had a two year waiting list for PMQs.  I bought a house there and have never looked back.  Now as I approach retirement, I will own my house and not have to worry about mortgage payments again......if only I didn't have to worry about taxes too.

I pass on that advice to all my young soldiers.  Even if you own a house where you are being released and don't intend on living there, but somewhere else in Canada, you will have a very nice downpayment, if not complete payment, after selling it, on a home somewhere else.  

Would you prefer to pay rent to someone so that they can own the home, or pay/invest in your own mortgage and perhaps make some  money on the house?  A question you may want to ask yourself, especially if a mortgage may be less per month than rent.

GW


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## CdnGalaGal (4 Sep 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> Therefore while you might get a cheap PMQ in a place like Wainwright, you will not be so lucky in the GTA, Ottawa or Vancouver.



PMQs in Ottawa, for MCpl and below cost $450 a month plus heat and hydro. Not bad for a 3 bedroom townhouse, especially in Ottawa. The detached homes for MCpl and below cost $1000 a month plus heat and hydro. I don't know what you need to get those - you're most likely going to be looking at the townhomes though. 

George is right regarding buying your own place. Especially in places like Halifax, Ottawa, Vancouver, TO (big cities with high prices on houses)... The prices are almost guaranteed to go up and you'll have that much more in your pocket at the end to get something even better.


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## pbi (4 Sep 2004)

Roger that. When we moved to Winnipeg in early 2002, I was not too sure about buying a house. But, after looking around a bit (I was on IR living in the shack) I decided that you would have to be stupid not to buy a house there. There are many, many great neighborhoods and prices for very decent homes in these neighborhoods are about 50% what you would pay in Toronto. At first I couldn't believe it. A very surprising thing I found here in Winnipeg is how fast the market is: houses are sometimes on the market and gone in 24-48 hours, often for more than what was being asked. I didn't really want to move to the 'peg: now I don't really want to leave. Owning our own home in a good neighborhood has had alot to do with that. Buy if you can! Cheers.


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## Righty (4 Sep 2004)

I have been living in PMQ's since i was born but when my family moved to winnipeg when i was 14 we finally bought a house, and with the way houses are selling in winnipeg now around our neighbourhood, our house will probably sell for $15000-$20000 more then what we bought it for. My parents had wished they bought houses instead of PMQ's before, but when my dad retires, with his pention, sevrents pay, and there RRSP. They should be a living a pretty comfortable life.


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## Scoobie Newbie (4 Sep 2004)

Sorry thats what the rates are in Shilo.


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## hiv (4 Sep 2004)

CJ said:
			
		

> PMQs in Ottawa, for MCpl and below cost $450 a month plus heat and hydro. Not bad for a 3 bedroom townhouse, especially in Ottawa. The detached homes for MCpl and below cost $1000 a month plus heat and hydro. I don't know what you need to get those - you're most likely going to be looking at the townhomes though.
> 
> George is right regarding buying your own place. Especially in places like Halifax, Ottawa, Vancouver, TO (big cities with high prices on houses)... The prices are almost guaranteed to go up and you'll have that much more in your pocket at the end to get something even better.



The MCpl and below PMQs in Ottawa actually fall under a different organisation than the CFHA.They are their own independent organisation and attach a lot of restrictions to the place. However, the price can't be beat.


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## Sig_Des (5 Sep 2004)

> I have been living in PMQ's since i was born but when my family moved to winnipeg when i was 14 we finally bought a house, and with the way houses are selling in winnipeg now around our neighbourhood, our house will probably sell for $15000-$20000 more then what we bought it for



That's always good, but if your in a trade that moves a lot, consider renting instead of owning. Otherwise, you may end up getting less than what you bot it for, depending on the market. I know Valcartier is up and down, and we lost money on the house when we got posted to Gagetown.


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## Inch (5 Sep 2004)

Did you get an IRP move? If you did you shouldn't have lost very much at all. They'll reimburse you for 90% of the loss, ie, you lose 10,000, they'll give you 9,000 to cover the loss. As far as I know all reg force postings are done by IRP.  I'll look up the ref for you and post it in a few min.

Cheers


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## Inch (5 Sep 2004)

Found it, it's in the Canadian Forces Integrated relocation program manual.  It's called home equity assistance, 80% of the loss up to $15,000 is covered under the Core funding, and the remainder is covered by the Custom folder, if no custom funds remain, you can use some of the personal folder funds. I'd be talking to your IRP consultant if I were you.

Cheers


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## George Wallace (5 Sep 2004)

Mopo_26 said:
			
		

> That's always good, but if your in a trade that moves a lot, consider renting instead of owning. Otherwise, you may end up getting less than what you bot it for, depending on the market. I know Valcartier is up and down, and we lost money on the house when we got posted to Gagetown.



This is a decision that one will have to contemplate.   Do you pay up to $12,000 a year in rent (not necessarily in a PMQ) or do you pay a mortgage, and hope not to loose some on a posting.   As Inch has pointed out, there are some checks and balances in place to protect you.   Now a days, a posting is usually longer than two years, and could run as long as ten to twenty.   It is your money and your decision on how you will spend it.

Your first hurtle may be your first mortgage, and again there are ways that can help you get over it as painless as possible.   Some provinces, such as Ontario, allow you to set up a "First Home Investment Plan", or something to that effect, that is much like a RSP and allows you to save towards your first home purchase.   Try to save up as much of a down payment as you can in your savings, as you will need around 5% of the purchase price to get a mortgage.   Borrow money from family that you can pay back as you can without interest.   It is a good investment.

GW


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