# Pilot Ejection & Fighter Crash



## Sask HCAO (13 Dec 2005)

Check out this video at an air show where the two pilots eject, then the plane crashes.
Fortunately no-one was hurt. I think that's an SU-27, but I'm not sure.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jetcrash.html


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## Sf2 (13 Dec 2005)

pardon the sarcasm, but

1989----------you---------------------------------------------Present.


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## Sask HCAO (15 Dec 2005)

LOL Really? When did this happen? I got it off of EBaumsworld, so it didn't have the date.


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## Good2Golf (20 Dec 2005)

Not to keep this thread alive on purpose, but the best part of it was watching the two Russian pilots slug it out afterwards.  Some news teams got vid of them duking it out... ;D

Cheers,
Duey


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## WannaBeFlyer (21 Dec 2005)

Originally, I thought this video was of the SU-27 crash in the Ukraine where 78 people died in 2002. I believe the pilots were charged in that crash and found guilty.



			
				Duey said:
			
		

> Not to keep this thread alive on purpose, but the best part of it was watching the two Russian pilots slug it out afterwards.   Some news teams got vid of them duking it out... ;D



Kind of reminds me of the crash video in which two MiG-29's collide at RAF Fairford during an airshow in 1993. Nobody was hurt thankfully. Some of the news coverage captured the entire event but what was unusual was the moment one of the pilots hit the ground after ejecting, he stood up, disconnected his gear, then very rather casually lit up a smoke and walked away with the most rediculously calm look on his face. Hardly the reaction you would expect. It was almost as if it were part of the show. If I find it, I will post a link. (I have found the video but not of him lighting up a smoke and walking away.)


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## Blue Max (21 Dec 2005)

These demonstration crashes always erked the western airforces when it was seen first hand how efficient/advanced the Russian ejection seats were beyond western technology...



			
				MG said:
			
		

> the moment one of the pilots hit the ground after ejecting, he stood up, disconnected his gear, then very rather casually lit up a smoke and walked away with the most rediculously calm look on his face.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Dec 2005)

Well, one usually works harder on the part that is required the most.....


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## Blue Max (21 Dec 2005)

Bruce, point I was making is that if the same kite failure and ejection had happened from a western aircraft, the pilot would have probably been really beat up (may not have survived ejecting with some western systems from low altitude). 

The Russian ejection seat system was tested with the aid of live dummies taken out of the Russian prison system (along with some good engineering) which contributed to its outstanding performance.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Dec 2005)

Quote,
_with the aid of live dummies taken out of the Russian prison system _ 

.....you guys are killin' me this morning..... :crybaby:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/18425/post-311741.html#msg311741


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## Cloud Cover (21 Dec 2005)

I had no idea there was such a thing as a demonstration crash. I hope the job pays well.


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## Blue Max (21 Dec 2005)

BFGoodrich Completes Acquisition; Expands Position in The Ejection Seat Industry
(Source : BF Goodrich Co. ; issued March 6, 2000)

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=1784&session=dae.16972255.1135182187.Q6mBasOa9dUAABSTzuA&modele=jdc_1

CHARLOTTE, N.C.---The BFGoodrich Company announced today that it has completed the purchase of the outstanding stock of The IBP Aerospace Group Inc. Previously the companies announced a letter of intent on Dec. 2, 1999 and indicated they would close the transaction in the first quarter pending government approvals.

As a result of the transaction, BFGoodrich now will be able to offer the K-36/3.5A ejection seat for U.S.- built aircraft. The seat, considered to provide unmatched pilot safety, has been adapted by IBP and Zvevda, a Russian manufacturer, for U.S. production and use in American-built aircraft. The new technology is part of the company's existing aerospace segment. BFGoodrich is one of the world's leading suppliers of aerospace components and systems with 1999 sales of $3.6 billion. 

David Watson, President, Maintenance Repair and Overhaul and Landing and Safety Systems Groups within BFGoodrich Aerospace, said, "We are delighted that we can now offer manufacturers of military aircraft the K-36/3.5A seat, widely acknowledged as the most advanced ejection seat in the world. The combination of the proven K-36 seat and soon-to-be released BFGoodrich inflatable restraint technology promise to further enhance the capability to protect our pilots in the future. We are on the verge of what is quite possibly the greatest development for the protection of our tactical pilots since the jet age.'' 

Watson also noted that the BFGoodrich Safety Systems Division integration of the K-36/3.5A program offers new market opportunities internationally and supports the United States - Russian government to government initiatives for future joint programs. 

The K-36/3.5A seat, which was developed in Russia, is recognized for its outstanding ability to protect the occupant at all ranges of the ejection envelope. The seat has been demonstrated in operation above 700 knots and can accommodate occupants of all sizes. By utilizing stabilizing booms, air deflector, limb restraints and variable rocket technology, the K-36/3.5A seat offers superior pilot protection. 

The company expects that it will be able to offer these advanced ejection seats within two years for use on U.S. built aircraft flying anywhere in the world. The Joint Strike Fighter, which is currently in development and retrofit opportunities for the F-5 and the T-38 aircraft, are excellent applications for the K-36/3.5A ejection seat. The company expects to obtain U.S. Government funds to support the K-36/3.5A qualification efforts.


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## Blue Max (21 Dec 2005)

And this comparison of western and Russian ejection seat technology...
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/eject.htm

_Within the last 10 years, dramatic escapes from Russian fighter aircraft have captured the attention of military pilots and aviation enthusiasts around the world. The low-altitude ejection from a MiG-29 just prior to ground impact at the 1989 Paris Air Show and a pair of miraculous escapes from two exploding MiG-29s that had collided over Fairford, England, in 1993, vividly demonstrated the potential downside of flying high-performance, military aircraft. The pilots ejected successfully thanks to the K-36D ejection seat designed and built by the Zvezda Research, Development and Production Enterprise in Russia. 

The K-36D ejection seat and its associated life support equipment are designed, tested, and produced under the direction of Professor Guy Severin. Professor Severin, a member of the prestigious Russian Academy of Science, has devoted his life to developing and perfecting life-support and life-saving equipment for air and space systems. His achievements include the design of the cosmonaut seats, pressure suits, and the first extravehicular maneuvering unit for the Russian space program; aeronautical fire suppression equipment; and escape systems for fighters, bombers, VTOL aircraft, acrobatic aircraft, and the Russian Buran space shuttle.

The K-36D ejection seat provides directional stability and crew protection features that significantly reduce the risk of injury during ejection, especially at the higher speeds associated with fighter aircraft operations in wartime. Successful K-36D operational ejections have occurred at speeds of 729 KEAS and Mach 2.6. The aerodynamic forces encountered at high speeds can cause severe neck, spine, and limb injuries. Our experience with Western ejection seats, which are aerodynamically unstable and have little or no limb restraint, indicates that the risk of major injury rises exponentially from about 350 KEAS to a high probability of fatal injury near the seat's structural limit, usually about 600 KEAS. The fact that the aerodynamic forces increase as the square of the velocity has made even incremental improvement of the performance envelope very difficult. _


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## WannaBeFlyer (21 Dec 2005)

uh-oh. Look what I've done...interesting though.


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## Sf2 (21 Dec 2005)

Russians have always excelled in bang seat technology.

There's another vid just posted in this forum, of the NFTC Hawk ejection in Moose Jaw.  They ejected much earlier than the russian did, with a far less decending vector, and one guy came out with serious injuries.  That's a Martin Baker seat


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## Inch (22 Dec 2005)

short final said:
			
		

> Russians have always excelled in bang seat technology.
> 
> There's another vid just posted in this forum, of the NFTC Hawk ejection in Moose Jaw.   They ejected much earlier than the russian did, with a far less decending vector, and one guy came out with serious injuries.   That's a Martin Baker seat



There's a little more to the story than that. The guy that got seriously injured, got injured because he landed with his seat pack, which IIRC, broke his pelvis and his femur. I can't remember the whole story surrounding it, but I believe they're going to a torso harness for the Hawk vice the integrated harness. Martin Baker has found that the torso harness limits injuries much more than an integrated harness.


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## GO!!! (24 Dec 2005)

Forgive my ignorance of these matters of the air, but I have to ask - 

1) what is a "seat pack" and why do pilots get hurt on ejection from cbt aircraft? (I'm assuming that it's the landing part)

2) One of the posts says that the Russians have successfully ejected a pilot at Mach 2.6 - is this a typo?

Thanks in advance for any answers!


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## old medic (24 Dec 2005)

Just a few links I found on the subject:

Zvezda - Manufacturer
http://www.zvezda-npp.ru/english/00.htm 

Photos, overview, testing, photos
http://www.ejectionsite.com/k36seat.htm

The K-36D Ejection Seat Foreign Comparative Testing (FCT) Program
(selling copies of the report)
http://www.stormingmedia.us/49/4921/A492123.html


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## Good2Golf (24 Dec 2005)

GO!!!  OM had the ejection info...a seat pack is essentially a large box lunch with a cushion on top of it that sits in the seat tub, but is physically attached to your harness, so that when you eject, you take your survival kit with you.  Once you're released from the entire seat proper after the rocket motor fires, your chute will open, then you "release" the seat pack, which will let it drop several feet below you....kind of like dropping your ruck on the lanyard (?) before you hit the ground.

Cheers,
Duey


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Dec 2005)

Let's see if I can remember all this.

You sit in the seat, on your seatpack, which clips to your chute harness. It contains amongst other things:
a one man life raft;
a days rations;
first aid kit;
shark repellant;
dye marker;
flares;
signal mirror; and
rescue radio.

When you are about to eject:
Visors down;
Feet back against the seat with heels and knees together;
Initiate your bail out bottle (pull the green apple);
Pull your ejection handles;
Hands in your lap.

When the handles are pulled:
The canopy initiator fires releasing the locks and jettisoning the canopy;
Once the canopy is clear, the rear seat rocket fires and sends the seat up the rails; 
once clear the front seat will fire and leave the a/c;
at the top of it's arc, your buckle will initiate, releasing your shoulder and lap harness;
the "butt snapper" will initiate and kick you clear of the seat (this is a strap that runs from th top of the seat, down your back, under the seat pack and is attached to the front of the seat pan. It is actuated and wound up by a ballistic inertia reel at the top rear of the seat.

Once clear of the seat, your "rip cord" which is still attached to your buckle and seat has been pulled. It is attached to the "barometric release" which will allow you to free fall to 15000 ft +/- 500 ft (IIRC). This works in conjunction with your bail out bottle which force feeds you 90% oxygen. These systems are designed to get you to a warm and oxygen rich ambient atmosphere in case you've blacked out on ejection. A very real possibility when you pull about 8-10 G's leaving the cockpit.

If you are conscious and landing in a field or water, you pull the handle on your seat pack and it will release all the contents on a lanyard. Your life raft, which is at the end, will self inflate. If you are coming down into the trees, leave the pack secure and use it to lead you through the branches.

I'm sure I've forgotten some of it, it's been twenty years since I taught bail out procedures for High Altitude Indoc, but that's the general gist. Some may have even changed with the advent of zero/zero seats. I'm sure a zoomie can fill in the blanks.


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## Good2Golf (24 Dec 2005)

Recceguy, sounds good to me!  Ahhh...HAI in YED...nothing better than Extra helping of babyback ribs, the Blooming Onion and several pints of Guiness at Tony Roma's immediately prior to the chamber ride...oh, that and make sure you sit next to the door when it's time to unmask and exit the chamber after the run! 

Cheers,
Duey


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## GO!!! (24 Dec 2005)

hmmm,

So the pilot ejects, seperates from his seat, then releases his equipment, and tries not to land on top of it.

I feel for the guy that landed on his kit - this can create pretty bad injuries even in intentional parachuting!


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Dec 2005)

Same as you guys dropping your stuff. Instead of a big bulky ruck and stuff though, it's a little one man inflated life raft and a small bag of goodies. . I also don't think the'd be screaming in. The Flexback chute was a 24' canopy and the high speed BA-18 chute was 28' IIRC.


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## Inch (24 Dec 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> hmmm,
> 
> So the pilot ejects, seperates from his seat, then releases his equipment, and tries not to land on top of it.
> 
> I feel for the guy that landed on his kit - this can create pretty bad injuries even in intentional parachuting!



The seat pack is attached to your hips, and is the seat cushion that you sit on. When you eject from a Martin Baker Mk16 seat like the ones you find in the Hawk and Harvard II, the pack hangs off your hips on two D rings that you clip and unclip like a seat belt buckle for normal ingress and egress. When you are hanging under canopy, there is a yellow and black lever on your right side that you pull up on to cause the seat pack to separate and dangle below you on a length of lanyard that is still attached to your harness.

The pack isn't all that big, it wouldn't hurt you much to land on it, the problem was this guy landed with it still attached to his butt. I would imagine it'd be similar to landing with your ruck still attached to you vice hanging below you. It prevents the body from bending like it should and puts enough pressure on the bones to break them.

recceguy,

Close, but the Mk 16 is a little different, no green apple to pull (it's all automatic), there are leg lines to pull your feet in for you, and the ejection handle is right between your legs so your hands are already in your lap (it takes approx 2.5 sec from the time you pull the handle until you're both under canopy, hence the need for leg lines since if the other guy pulls the handle, you won't even have time to think about pulling your legs in before you're hanging in the chute). 

Also with the Harvard II and Hawk, the canopy doesn't jettison, it's fractured by det cord prior to you going through the hole. If the det cord fails, you've got a giant spike on the top of your seat to break the canopy on the way out. 

And perhaps one of the nicest features of the Martin Baker Mk 16, it's a staged ejection. A gas cylinder fires you up the first few feet and the rocket doesn't fire until you're at the top of the rails. This means there's far less compression on the spine which means fewer back injuries during the ejection sequence.


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Dec 2005)

Inch,

I knew there'd been improvements. I was talking of the Webber seat we had in the Voodoo. That's the last jet I worked on ;D


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## Inch (24 Dec 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Inch,
> 
> I knew there'd been improvements. I was talking of the Webber seat we had in the Voodoo. That's the last jet I worked on ;D



I know.  

I was playing kissing tag at public school when you were working on those!  ;D


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