# The Deserter's Tale



## deedster (5 Apr 2007)

Have just finished this book (The Story of an Ordinary Soldier Who Walked Away from the War in Iraq) and am wondering if anyone else has read it.  I am a civilian (although I'm still waiting for my CF application process tomove past the "paperwork" stage) and I would really like to hear someone in the military's take on it.  I found the author to be quite self-serving but obviously I have NO IDEA what being in his situation would be like.  I'm hoping to hear your comments -- be totally honest!


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## Sig_Des (8 Apr 2007)

Saw the book....read the description. Put it down and refused to even look at it again. I have no time for that caliber of person....


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## geo (8 Apr 2007)

Hmph.... the subject doesn't appear to be all that interesting
Yawn!

Got more important things to do.

The man would have been a volunteer soldier in a volunteer army.
Once you have committed yourself to something, you have to do your duty...
Not at all the same situation as when there was a conscript army


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## Sig_Des (8 Apr 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Got more important things to do.



Like sorting my CDs in Alphabetical order....or grooming the dog....or, *gasp* packing my barracks boxes for my deployment



> The man would have been a volunteer soldier in a volunteer army.
> Once you have committed yourself to something, you have to do your duty...
> Not at all the same situation as when there was a conscript army



+10


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## orange.paint (9 Apr 2007)

D Squared said:
			
		

> Have just finished this book (The Story of an Ordinary Soldier Who Walked Away from the War in Iraq) and am wondering if anyone else has read it.



Other recommended books:
"I quit walmart,as a voluntary employee."
"I realised I had to do something to receive a paycheck,and left (story of a Iraq war resistor)."

You D2 just funded terrorism dirty hippies.
Betcha the writer has fantastic long hair,and his daughter's name is "Indian Ocean"Or "fuzzy peaches"........

Do you realise you just gave them money for cardboard to make arts and craft protest signs or at least 3 large bags of Doritos's?

Hang your head in shame.


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## deedster (10 Apr 2007)

EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> You D2 just funded terrorism dirty hippies.
> Betcha the writer has fantastic long hair,and his daughter's name is "Indian Ocean"Or "fuzzy peaches"........
> 
> Do you realise you just gave them money for cardboard to make arts and craft protest signs or at least 3 large bags of Doritos's?
> ...



Whoa...hang on there Mr. RCAC! 
 First of all, I didn't BUY the book, I got it from the library.
And I will *NOT* hang my head in shame for trying to learn (albeit from the author's point of view) what actions the Americans were actually partaking in in Iraq and what would motivate someone to perform this cowardly act.
Secondly, I don't think it is SHAMEFUL for someone to try to increase their knowledge BEFORE making impulsive judgements.  
Unfortunately the narrow-minded redneck attitude I sensed when reading your comment would undoubtedly reinforce what some likewise  narrow-minded civilians feel about the military.  Thankfully, I am NOT one of those civilians and completely support our troops.  
And, just for the record, I am not at all pleased me that Canada is harboring this individual !!!
D2


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## reccetrooper18 (10 Apr 2007)

D squared,
I read the book as well and found it very interesting reading about his training expiriances as I am going through my basic training as well. Before reading the book I thought the same as everyone else on this forum but it must be read to be understood. 
(to recap for those who have not read it: dead civilians heads are played with like soccar balls, little girl who becomes friends with this soldier gets her head blown off by an American for no reason, a man shows an American patrol the bottom off his foot so they shoot it off, hundreds of Nazi like beatings are handed out because the soldiers are board, and every night they raid and destroy houses and find nothing. He joined because he was broke and had to support his family and the recruiter promised him a posting in the states)

The Canadian forces is very different than the American army. The recruiting process try's to weed out those Rambo wannabe's who are very prominant throughout the book. After what happened in Somalia in 1993 our military is highly sensitive to any beatings of civilians and since our army is so small its easier to moniter this than in the US army. I was also trained that if we are given an order that is morally wrong such as kill that little girl (circumstances might permit this order but you know what I mean if the officer ordering it might have gone crazy) it is my responsibility to circumvent the chain of command and report him. There were many times in the book that the auther complained that he was just following orders and could do nothing about it. We are also not trained to think of all muslims as terrorists and call them racist names. Reading this book makes me very glad I do not have to join the American army and even more proud that I am a Canadian soldier. I fully believe in what we are doing in Afghanistan and know that we need good soldiers in our military so that these sorts of events do not occur. I do not hate Americans as I know this is just a small piece of the story and many US soldiers are genuinly trying to do good over there. It is a shame that anti war protesters will use this book as a rallying cry, but if they use it against our military it's an ignorant mistake and only proves that we are doing our job by prtecting their freedom of speech.

Pte McLoughlin


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## deedster (10 Apr 2007)

Pte McLoughlin
Thank you for your considerate, intelligent and informative post.  It was exactly what I was expecting to hear.  It is a soldier like yourself that makes me proud to be a Canadian and so extremely proud of our brave military!


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## Journeyman (10 Apr 2007)

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
While I was spell-checking, D Squared got a post in. She's wrong; ignore her.   ;D


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Oh reccetroop......_~sigh~_  Where to start......

First off, by your "recap," absent any comment, I assume you accept everything written in this book as gospel? The story about soldiers using heads as soccer balls, for example, you _know_ to be true? This book is the basis of your condemnation of the US military? 

That story has been making the circuit of the anti-war sites, often attributed to different units (so maybe it's official military doctrine! )...but there has been no evidence that I've found that it's true. Would something that horrific not have been investigated? It would only be condoned if you live in a world of conspiracy theorists.

This, like the rest of his "tale" -- the beatings, murders through boredom, killing for spite -- is designed to stir compassion for this poor deserter; apparently the only person in his world with a heart or compassion.

Make no mistake, this story is "_as told to_ Lawrence Hill" - - an author who, according to his website, "came to Canada hoping to escape the enduring racism of [his] native United States," and who makes his money writing about the discriminatory evil that is the US  :  
He knows how to write a tale to evoke emotion; one would expect no less from someone with a Johns Hopkins' MA in writing. 

As for the rest of your opinions.....


> The Canadian forces is very different than the American army. The recruiting process try's to weed out those Rambo wannabe's who are very prominant throughout the book. After what happened in Somalia in 1993 our military is highly sensitive to any beatings of civilians


This isn't intended as an insult, but I really don't believe you are qualified to judge. Both systems strive to weed out undesirables...in their many forms. Both militaries are also sensitive about beating civilians...and have been long before Somalia. Reporting an "officer who goes crazy" (as happens so often), and orders the murder of a child would not involve "circumventing the chain of command." You are obligated to report such a thing; I believe the overwhelming percentage of troops in the CF _and_ the US military would do just that.

Your training seems to be instilling or reinforcing the right values, despite some dubious terminology or examples (which may just be your translation, given your boycotting of spell check). I would suggest, however, that you restrict making public judgements on areas well outside your realm of competence or experience. From my experience I've found US troops to be every bit as competent, moral, and patriotic as your average Canadian soldier. (And not _just_ those high-speed BCD troops with a few weeks of BMQ training.   )

Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan, like American troops in Iraq, are all about "genuinely trying to do good over there." 

This dubious work by Joshua Key ("assisted" by Lawrence Hill), however, demeans them all.


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## GAP (10 Apr 2007)

The same BS about the same things, including kicking heads around, went the rounds with the Viet Nam era....it amazes me that people are willing to believe the worst, but will not be interested in what actually is happening....strange.


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## Sig_Des (10 Apr 2007)

reccetrooper18 said:
			
		

> but if they use it against our military it's an ignorant mistake and only proves that we are doing our job by prtecting their freedom of speech.



Using it against the American Military is the same ignorant mistake.

Like Journeyman pointed out, I would not take what's in this book as gospel. Have you worked, served, or trained with American soldiers? Many of us have, and have a great respect to our Brothers in Arms to the south. And there are many books out now, from impartial writers and sources, who can give a better account of events in Iraq. I would suggest "We were one" by Patrick K. O'Donnell

Or try talking to a few of the members on this board who are in, or have served in Iraq.

Like I said, try working with American Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and Marines before making an unexperienced judgement on them.


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## reccetrooper18 (10 Apr 2007)

I'm sorry if it came across as if I were anti American soldiers, I have several friends in the 101st airborne who have done several tours in Iraq and would trust them with my life. I was just kindly trying to answere D squared's question from my point of view after having read the book. I am young and new and used to being picked on by the older guys and as long as it's useful criticism I don't mind (I'll spell check this time, I was in a rush the other time). But why attack us for adding to a controversial conversation?


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## Journeyman (10 Apr 2007)

reccetrooper18 said:
			
		

> *I am young and new and used to being picked on by the older guys and as long as it's useful criticism I don't mind (I'll spell check this time, I was in a rush the other time). But why attack us for adding to a controversial conversation?*



"Why attack *us*"? Are you speaking on behalf of all your personalities? 

I assure you (and I can't speak for the others), my comments had nothing to do with trying to inform you, correct errors in posting style or misinformed opinion, or even to broaden your exposure to differing views.

I was "attacking" you merely because you _are_ "young and new." 


Explanation ends; please continue enjoying your youthful paranoia   ;D


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## deedster (10 Apr 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> The same BS about the same things, including kicking heads around, went the rounds with the Viet Nam era....it amazes me that people are willing to believe the worst, but will not be interested in what actually is happening....strange.


Thus the reason I started this thread...my attempt in getting your good folks' thoughts based on your knowledge and experiences before assuming anything.  I thank you for posting and my apologies to reccetrooper 18 for getting him in "hot water"  :-[


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## Journeyman (10 Apr 2007)

D Squared said:
			
		

> *... apologies to reccetrooper 18 for getting him in "hot water" *



Nothing wrong with hot water; it keeps one clean (to paraphrase GK Chesterton   )


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## orange.paint (10 Apr 2007)

D Squared said:
			
		

> Whoa...hang on there Mr. RCAC!
> First of all, I didn't BUY the book, I got it from the library.
> And I will *NOT* hang my head in shame for trying to learn (albeit from the author's point of view) what actions the Americans were actually partaking in in Iraq and what would motivate someone to perform this cowardly act.
> Secondly, I don't think it is SHAMEFUL for someone to try to increase their knowledge BEFORE making impulsive judgements.
> ...



What you call narrow minded,I call educated.I can tell from your brief out look of third Reich,romper stomer reports that this book is nothing more than a calumniation.You manage to call me narrow minded however you spent 50 years on the earth as a civilian.Wouldn't that make you narrow minded from my perspective?You are most likely the type of person who calls a LAV3 a "tank" and couldn't tell the difference between a M113 and a Harrier.

Yet with the total knowledge you have of foregin military's you can make assumptions that we as fellow soldiers would agree to even look at a atrocious book such as this?How many marines have you ever seen running around with their rifle above their heads for messing up a drill movement?None I'm guessing.Yet you can believe Iraq is a total fallout of human Morales and as I alluded to in the previous comment a total lack of discipline.

To believe this abridgement for anything other than fiction shows your total NARROW minded view MS D squared.

The basic fact is you have taken time to "become informed"as you put it.Yet you have walked away less informed than when you started.

Maybe once you join the army/navy/air force you may understand a total hate for  UNEDUCATED hippies who believe anything they can rally around.

Maybe think about what this book does:

Provides money to the coward POS.

Provides him a "Fan base" of hippies who wish to keep him in Canada.

Yes give your head a shake and pick up a book on real soldiers.

Or if you want I can make up some really good Bosnia stories,You most likely will believe.If you found this piece of writing as dumb as soldiers would,you would have put it down at the cover.

If your looking for other perspectives of soldiering look at books such as:

Soldat (German ww2 arty officers personal story from labour union to the internment camps after the war)

My Jihad (American who goes to Chechnya to kill Russians,Bosnia to kill Serbs etc)

GET ER DUNNN!!


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## reccetrooper18 (11 Apr 2007)

No problem D squared, us new guys have to stick together. Journeyman, even if you weren't trying to teach me anything I learned alot. Thats what young guys do. Good choice on the quote, I love Chesterton.


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## deedster (11 Apr 2007)

RCAC
I'm not going to get into a shouting war with you.  



			
				EX_RCAC_011 said:
			
		

> I can tell from your brief out look of third Reich,romper stomer reports that this book is nothing more than a calumniation.
> 
> 
> > I don't get this...????
> ...


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## deedster (11 Apr 2007)

D Squared said:
			
		

> RCAC
> need to clarify a few things for you.  PM inbound



On second thought, forget the PM, I'd be wasting my time expecting you to try to understand anything further I have to say.

MODS...feel free to lock-er-up


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## 2 Cdo (11 Apr 2007)

D Squared said:
			
		

> On second thought, forget the PM, I'd be *wasting my time expecting you to try to understand anything further* I have to say.
> 
> MODS...feel free to lock-er-up



My bold addition. As it seems you suffer from exactly what you stated. :


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## deedster (11 Apr 2007)

Have to disagree with that, 2 Cdo 
I have kept an open mind and absorbed all the comments posted here.  I now have a better knowledge of  how you'all feel about the Godforsaken book, which I wish I could burn.  But, RCAC made some very negative assumptions about my person without any idea what my take was or even if I had one.  Had I realized what a can of worms it would open I would have steered clear.  I would chalk that up to my naievete, maybe even my stupidity, but not my being a "Third Reich...", narrow-minded, hippie supporter.   
My last comment (which you highlighted) was just my trying to express that I obviously still don't have enough knowledge and no experience whatsoever to "go there" with him.  And I will GEt ER DUNN, as he suggested, and intend on reading some of the books recommended by himself and by Michael O'Leary in previous threads, amongst other things.         :-X


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## geo (11 Apr 2007)

oik.... another thread down the toilet!

Mods... maybe a li'll clean up?


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## deedster (12 Apr 2007)

Sorry Mods...learned my lesson (the hard way)  :-[


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