# Only in Quebec, they pay you to be lazy



## Pikache (3 Apr 2004)

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=c6e4ee4d-57d2-40ae-a8a3-46b7e2e29925 

Quebec: Guaranteed minimum income?


Canadian Press 


Saturday, April 03, 2004
ADVERTISEMENT 



QUEBEC 

The Quebec government announced plans Friday to create a guaranteed minimum-income level and abolish penalties for welfare recipients who refuse to look for work. 

Employment Minister Claude Bechard also said welfare recipients who look for work will get a bonus on their monthly cheques, while people who do volunteer work while collecting welfare will also be rewarded. The minimum monthly payment will be $533. 

Able-bodied welfare recipients will get about $60 extra a month if they look for work. 

The measures will kick in next year. 

Parti Quebecois employment critic Camil Bouchard said the measures don‘t make up for other in cuts in economic development and fee hikes in day care and transport. 

© The Canadian Press 2004


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## girlfiredup (3 Apr 2004)

What a brilliant idea.  Not!  Welcome to Canada.  Here‘s your welfare check and complimentary lazy boy chair.


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## Roger (3 Apr 2004)

Try living on 533 a month.


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## Paul F (3 Apr 2004)

Who cares if it‘s only $533? They are doing absolutely nothing for the money and with our armed forces, health care, education system, and just about everything else our governments fund(provincial, federal and municipal), it‘s just ridiculous for our hard earned dollars we pay in taxes to go to support some lazy slug who is unwilling to even look for work.


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## wongskc (3 Apr 2004)

Well you know this country, we‘d rather spend money on those that drain the system than on those who protect it.


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## Roger (3 Apr 2004)

You do not have all the facts. In the past if you where on welfare you had to look for work or they penalized you, that included people with health or mental issues. It was not fair for those who could not look for work. Now if you are not able, you are not penalized, but if you do look for work you can get extra money, money you need to travel to look or buy clothes to help you find a job. 

Take a walk in downtown Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver. You will see the poverty. Yes I believe you should not be lazy and not work and if you are you should not be on welfare but for those who cannot and are in need, there needs to be something for them to fall back on. Just think about what you are saying, I have been close to being on welfare myself, I am now in a financial situation that I can go without work for a year, but for most of my life I was 2 pays away from unemployment then welfare.

So I hope none of you fall down a hill and cannot work for a year, or slip on some ice and need to take two years off work. Or dive in a pool and hit the bottom and cannot work for 14 months, then you can come on here and say **** on welfare.

Only in Alberta do you have a premier who goes to shelters drunk to **** on people who cannot find a job, or cancel more than 50% of the people on welfare and offer them bus tickets to BC or Saskatchewan.


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## girlfiredup (3 Apr 2004)

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.  Take away the welfare system and watch how fast people scramble to earn a living.  By the way, who dives into a pool and hits the bottom?


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## K. Ash (3 Apr 2004)

Girlfiredup, 

I agree with you to the point of if your able to work you should bloody well work. But, there are people out there who are unable to do so. I have no problem with my tax dollars going towards helping someone who are unable to help themselves.


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## nULL (3 Apr 2004)

GirlFiredUp...how old are you? Do you have even a part time job? If you were kicked out of your house this moment, could you afford to support yourself? There is a huge difference between part-time and full-time employment. One offers stability and guaranteed wages - the other does not. I have no doubt that many homeless people could find part time employment, but even when I was working two part time jobs, I was finding it difficult to even make slightly more than $300 a paycheck. Unless you‘ve ever had to confront your boss and demand an explanation as to why you‘ve gone from 20 hours a week to 8, seemingly overnight, you really don‘t understand how hard you‘re going to find it once you‘re out on your own, except, in your case, you may have parents to fall back on. Don‘t be arrogant enough to pretend you are cut from a better cloth and have a naturally higher work ethic. We‘re all victims of chance.


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## Ex-Dragoon (3 Apr 2004)

PaulF....what provicial goverments do with their money has no bearing on Federal responsibilities, so what does that have to do with the CF?


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## muskrat89 (3 Apr 2004)

nULL - I don‘t know how old YOU are, but when you‘ve spent 20 or more years paying taxes and seen far more abusers than deservers, maybe your attitude will change. I came from a very small town in NB - everyone knew who the welfare families were. I remember my mother coming home from shopping - enraged and frustrated to the point of tears - our cart held only the necessities - the (able bodied, btw) welfare families had 2 carts - loaded to the brim with junk food, soda, cigarettes, prepared foods, etc. In both the US and Canada I have seen hundreds of examples where the people who deserved help (or were honest) fell through loopholes, and the "players" were fat, dumb and happy - becausethey knew the system. OF COURSE, some people are of diminished capacity - mental or physical, and need assistance. My experience, however, has been that many welfare recipients create (spawn) more welfare recipients, and the cycle is never broken. I would hazard a guess that if many of these folks were offered goods (groceries, hygiene supplies, etc.) and services (shelter, GED programs, etc.) instead of cash - they would be outraged....that would soon separate the truly needy, form the chaff.


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## muskrat89 (3 Apr 2004)

> We‘re all victims of chance.


Maybe - but the world is full of success stories. Stories of people who, against all odds - clawed, fought, and worked their way to success, fame, independence, whatever.

How you play the hand you are dealt is usually, your choice.


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## nULL (3 Apr 2004)

we all know the dole bludgers are a problem, but the problem remains; what can you do about them? 
absolutely nothing from a government perspective. is the government supposed to pay thousands of people to follow _these_ people around to make sure they are spending their money on rent and living a proper lifestyle?

success stories are *stories* because they are so rare. were you to take measures against the people who abuse the system, you would end up hurting the people who really NEED the system, only in that case you aren‘t just hurting THEM, you‘re hurting their FAMILIES, and poverty is systemic, much like alcohol abuse, running along family lines. It‘s a horrible situation, but save for deporting people who abuse the system (not a bad idea) there‘s nothing to be done. 

Still, I like your idea of offering goods and minimum amounds of cash to the needy. still, such token systems have been abused all the same. The form of help isn‘t the problem, it is indeed the "players" - but one can‘t accuse everyone of being a crook.

I‘m 19 btw.


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Apr 2004)

Personally, I could care less if Quebec wanted to give everyone in their province, let‘s say, $1000.00 a month. So long as it‘s collected by provincial tax from Quebecer‘s pockets. If they leave the federal system out of it and it doesn‘t cost me a cent, they can stay in their cloistered, socialist utopia until it all comes crashing down around their ears. Let them eat poutine!


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## girlfiredup (3 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by nULL:
> [qb] GirlFiredUp...how old are you? Do you have even a part time job? If you were kicked out of your house this moment, could you afford to support yourself? There is a huge difference between part-time and full-time employment. One offers stability and guaranteed wages - the other does not. I have no doubt that many homeless people could find part time employment, but even when I was working two part time jobs, I was finding it difficult to even make slightly more than $300 a paycheck. Unless you‘ve ever had to confront your boss and demand an explanation as to why you‘ve gone from 20 hours a week to 8, seemingly overnight, you really don‘t understand how hard you‘re going to find it once you‘re out on your own, except, in your case, you may have parents to fall back on. Don‘t be arrogant enough to pretend you are cut from a better cloth and have a naturally higher work ethic. We‘re all victims of chance. [/qb]


God created man to work for a reward, not to throw the dice and hope chance comes along.  I‘m no victim of chance and yes, I can support myself.... I‘ve been employed since the age of 14 and have been paying mucho taxes for 23 years.  You can figure out my age now.   

I was raised in a home where responsibility came first, then a reward. I think that is an important concept man/woman need to understand.  First you work, then you receive your reward or your pay.  It‘s a bible principle!  Consider what God said to Adam concerning the garden:   *And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat.  Genesis 2:15,16* 

What is God doing here?  He is giving Adam a reward or payment for his labour.  This is a divine precendent and it is deceptively simple:  You are supposed to get a reward or payment after you work.  First you work, then you receive your reward.  Work brings reward.  Where there is no work, there should be no reward.

That is what makes welfare such a terrible thing for people who are physically and mentally able to work.

Don‘t get me wrong, I believe there is a place for charity for those who are sick, infirm or unable mentally or physically to take care of themselves but as long as we continue to hand out welfare checks to men and women when they haven‘t worked for the money although they are able and capable of working, they can‘t help but think, "Hey, I like this.  Let me get this straight - you owe me this because I‘m out of work?  That means you are supposed to take care of me while I do nothing."

When a boy sees his father or mother sitting at home day after day with his feet up on the table and a beer balanced on his big round belly, just waiting for another government check to be handed to him after he‘s done nothing to earn it, isn‘t it logical to expect that boy to grow up with the same attitude and expectation?

We have an entire generation of young people who believe everything is supposed to be given to them.

"That teacher is just supposed to give me the grades.  I ain‘t supposed to work hard--I‘m a basketball player!"

"People are supposed to give me stuff.  I ain‘t supposed to do anything--I‘m just a kid from a poor neighbourhood."

This kind of thinking and reinforcement of wrong attitudes can cause a complete breakdown of the work-for-reward system God established on DAY ONE of Adam‘s existence.


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## Jarnhamar (3 Apr 2004)

Awesome post girlfiredup.

Not really following on the religious side of the house but the rest is good stuff.

Some people need assistance, others abuse it.
Let the hammer fall on those who abuse it.

I don‘t see whats so hard about punishing people.
"Dont drink and drive, oh you were caught drinking and driving? Have fun in jail"
"Dont commit welfare fraud, oh you were cheating the system? go pick up garbage and pay the taxpayers back"  It‘s simple just like the army. Cause and effect.


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## Roger (3 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by recceguy:
> [qb] Personally, I could care less if Quebec wanted to give everyone in their province, let‘s say, $1000.00 a month. So long as it‘s collected by provincial tax from Quebecer‘s pockets. If they leave the federal system out of it and it doesn‘t cost me a cent, they can stay in their cloistered, socialist utopia until it all comes crashing down around their ears. Let them eat poutine! [/qb]


And then you wonder why they want to seperate, dumb drival like that. What you are is a racist.


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## Jarnhamar (3 Apr 2004)

"Seperate" but keep the military assets that the CF has there, keep all the government properity, not pay into the national debt.  I think if they try to seperate it should be considered treason and delt with accordingly.

Recceguy wasn‘t being racist at all. If the PROVINCE of quebec wants to pay people on welfare more, let it come out of QUEBECS budget, not the rest of canada. WTF should we pay for them? Do you think quebec would pay for british colombia if they wanted to do that? Not a chance.


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## Roger (3 Apr 2004)

Let them all eat poutine is not what I consider proper it is words like that I hear all the time and it is not meant in a positive manner, I am French Canadian from Quebec and I found it racist and uncalled for, yes I might be sensitive but it is drivel like that I hear all the time and it has to stop. â Å“Theyâ ? meaning the French or Quebecers.

You never here "they" as in Alberta or Ontario.


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## Jarnhamar (3 Apr 2004)

You may never hear it, i often hear people make fun of guys out west. Alberta and their beef or all the pot smokers in BC. I‘ve been called a square head (Probably the stupidest insult, ever) quit a few times.

i was just made to watch brother bear by my wife. It had 2 cartoon moose who said "eh" all the time. Obvuiously making fun of canadians. I‘m not going to boycott dysney over it. French are known for poutin, relax and eat up


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Apr 2004)

Chop,
I fear spouting rhetoric like that, if you ever ran into a real racist, you‘d be in a world of hurt. Maybe I should have put the "smiley face" behind it like I intended, to show I was being humourous. Most people here can read into things like that. If I offended your delicate sensibilities, I apologize. However, if as already stated, you like the idea of supporting, and not all are I agree, deadbeats, then you feel free. I already support enough through my 40% taxes. Charity starts at home my friend. I also remember being in La Belle Provence and being spit on, overcharged, ripped off, attacked verbally and physically because I couldn‘t parle the lingo. Don‘t talk to me about being racist. I‘ve been all over the world helping different nationalities who were thankful for our presence, but the worst I was ever treated was in my own country while in Quebec.


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## Lajeunesse (3 Apr 2004)

Well in my opinion for those ppl who need our tax money to help themselfs live, find a job, recover from accidents ect..then I enjoy helping them. For those ppl that come over here to sit on thier asses and breed like bacteria....Only the strong survive.


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## Lajeunesse (3 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Chop:
> [qb] Let them all eat poutine is not what I consider proper it is words like that I hear all the time and it is not meant in a positive manner, I am French Canadian from Quebec and I found it racist and uncalled for, yes I might be sensitive but it is drivel like that I hear all the time and it has to stop. â Å“Theyâ ? meaning the French or Quebecers.
> 
> You never here "they" as in Alberta or Ontario. [/qb]


Agreed I‘m also French Canadian and proud to be so, I also found it racist and uncalled for. 

Lets leave immature pathetic little remarks like this kept to our selves, just to ignore future disputes about the above.  :rage:


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## meni0n (3 Apr 2004)

You guys take offense too easily.


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## Lajeunesse (4 Apr 2004)

Well unlike some ppl possibly, you I take offense to ppl bashing my heritage, its just like calling a japanese person a gook or an italian person a kike ect....So refering to "us Quebecers" as poutine eating whatevers....I‘m sorry my frined but yes i‘m going to take offence its a matter of respect, principal, and morel. If you had any you‘d see my point as well.


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## meni0n (4 Apr 2004)

how‘s calling quebecers as poutine eaters bash your heritage?


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Apr 2004)

I didn‘t call anyone "poutine eaters". I said "Let them eat poutine" in what I thought was a humourous paraphrase of Marie Antionette "Let them eat cake". Maybe not the most well thought out remark obviously. Something must have gotten lost in the translation. As I‘ve already apologized to your delicate sensibilities and you‘ve decided to deflect the critism of the Quebec government into a racist issue, I don‘t know what else to say. We all agree there is a place for government assitance, in the case of the infirm, destitute and some that just need a hand to get going again. Guess you don‘t want to debate why Canadian taxpayers should be responsible for able bodied persons, that are too lazy to work, getting our tax dollars. I‘m sure I‘m not the first "Anglais merde" to be treated as I was in Quebec, but I don‘t call everyone in Quebec racist. We‘re all human and we all make mistakes. Your point has been noted, the apology made. Accept it and move on, or remain small minded and piddly, with a chip on your shoulder. It‘s what keep the lawyers in business.


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## Tyler (4 Apr 2004)

> I didn‘t call anyone "poutine eaters". I said "Let them eat poutine" in what I thought was a humourous paraphrase of Marie Antionette "Let them eat cake".


And humourous it was, Recceguy.

I got the joke the second I read it, obviously others didn‘t and were far too quick to take offence.



> Agreed I‘m also French Canadian and proud to be so, I also found it racist and uncalled for.


A genuine Quebecer in "Wellity-ville", you‘re kidding, right?                 (smiley inserted to avoid offending anyone) I think you stated before that you were still a civilian. If you are, then I suggest that you remove your regimental badge avatar until you are qualified.



> its just like calling a japanese person a gook or an italian person a kike ect....


Get your racial slurs right            :

*Gook* = Racial slur for a Korean or Vietnamese person. 

Reference:_Cao and Novas, the authors of Everything You Need to Know About Asian-American History, explain the term's origins as follows: "Gook, the American racial epithet for all Asian Americans, is actually the Korean word for "country." Koreans call the United States of America Mee Hap Joon Gook, which they shorten to the more familiar Mee Gook. Similarly, Koreans have shortened Dae Han Min Gook or the People's Republic of Korea to Han Gook. During the Korean War, American soldiers gave the word gook a derogatory slant and used it to refer to Koreans. The term gook went through yet one more transformation when American servicemen in Vietnam used it to refer to the Vietnamese, particularly the Vietcong."_ 

Source:here. 

*Kike* = Racial slur for a Jewish person.

Source:here. 

The common racial slur used for Italians is "Wop". This word originated from the Italian word ‘guappo‘, meaning ‘thug‘ in English.

Source:here.

The common racial slurs used for the Japanese are "Nip" or "Jap". This seems to be a shortening of the words "Nippon" and "Japan". Both of these words are used by the Japanese to name their country. "Nihon" is also another word for "Japan".

Anyway, I didn‘t mean to hi-jack the thread like that. It‘s 3:00 AM and I‘m bored. If anyone here thinks that what I wrote above is racist in any way, I suggest you get a life.

Back on topic: 

My sentiments echo what Recceguy said before people got their panties in a knot about his "racist" post. If Quebec wants to hand out cash, they can do it at whatever rate they feel like, so long as it doesn‘t raise federal taxes.

As for welfare recipients in general (aside from the disabled); there will always be people in society that for whatever reason are born lazy and stupid or are raised that way. Some people just don‘t want to work or they make the wrong decisions or they just can‘t manage money properly. A friend of mine used to work at a general store near the welfare office in Welland, Ontario. He told me that on every first day of each month the welfare recipients would cash their checks and blow half of their money on lottery tickets. Go figure....

Tyler


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## Thompson_JM (4 Apr 2004)

Tyler... That was Beautiful.. I was just about to type the exact same thing....

and I Couldnt have said it any better..

nicely done.


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## Pikache (4 Apr 2004)

There is a series of novel by David Weber describing what happens when a socialist states gets full of just lazy citizens; people having a ‘right‘ to basic standard living provided by the government, so they become lazy and don‘t bother being educated and in the end, generations of that become burden to the govt and its potential collapse.


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## Jungle (4 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by RoyalHighlandFusilier:
> [qb] There is a series of novel by David Weber describing what happens when a socialist states gets full of just lazy citizens; people having a ‘right‘ to basic standard living provided by the government, so they become lazy and don‘t bother being educated and in the end, generations of that become burden to the govt and its potential collapse. [/qb]


There are real-life examples of this; for example New Zealand about 20 years ago.
I am a Québec-born French-Canadian, and lived outside of Québec for a number of years. There are ***holes everywhere, and I have been called names when visiting Québec with an Ontario plate on my car. I have also been told to "speak CDN" in other parts of the Country. The point is: there are good and bad people everywhere. Recceguy, your remark was funny, don‘t worry about a few kids taking offence...    
The poutine concept is now being exported as far as Asia, but we will keep the monopoly on cheese curds... this way, we will let the rest of the world finance our social assistance programs !!!


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## Ex-Dragoon (4 Apr 2004)

Real good series RHF...Weber is an excellent author IMO.


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## Armymedic (4 Apr 2004)

Holy cow people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip.

BTW "they" refers to any group of people who are not me or us....being from "the Gap" I use ‘they‘ to refer to Man, AB, Ont, and whoever else who isn‘t me or us. Pay more attention in English class.

Also...

I serve so that the gov‘t can pay people who don‘t/can‘t work, I serve so that you can call someone from Quebec a poutine eater (even when I am from Sask and love poutine too), I serve so that you can be offended at being called name other then the one your parents gave you. And I serve so that democratically elected people can decide what is best for our country...

I also serve so you can have the freedom to spout that useless crap for no reason but that you have the time and means to do so. All of you get off you horses before you all look like the parts where the poop comes out and smarten up.


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## Paul F (4 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Chop:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> ...


Since when are people who come from Quebec considered a race?


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## Ex-Dragoon (4 Apr 2004)

Racism is also attacks on ethnic group, religious group and if you want belief system. Racism and hate are the same thing in my books both are equally disgusting.


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## Jarnhamar (4 Apr 2004)

I always thought french candians were canadians. Not their own seperate race.

You guys are going to go VERY FAR in the CF getting offended as easily as you do. And because i know you won‘t catch on, im being sarcastic. Grow up and quit crying over spilt gravy or your in for a world of hurt when you actually get out into the world.  That might sound harsh but that bit of wisdom might come in more handy than you might think


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## Crisco (4 Apr 2004)

By the way... speaking as an English Quebecor, which there are many, I take offence to people who arbitrarily decide to judge Quebec and its policies when they themselves don‘t know the culture within Quebec. As for the poutine, we are **** proud to eat our poutine avec extra sauce... By the way, there is a big difference between a Quebecois and French-Canadian, but don‘t take my word for it, demandez les francais! En tous cas, j‘y vas...


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## LilMissChicky (4 Apr 2004)

[No message]


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## winchable (4 Apr 2004)

Anyhow folks, looks like this beautiful topic has spiraled into the abyss that is: Silliness.

Recceguy explained his use of "let them eat poutine" as a reference to Marie Antoinette.
We could sit here and bitch until the lumberjacks get home but we‘ll never settle anything regarding the Quebecer-Canadian issue (I‘ll give you a hint, this isn‘t the first time this has come up) The debate is one that will continue to rage on in Canadian culture, without resolve. One thing is for certain, it won‘t take up bandwidth on this site. 

**** if you want to discuss the finer points of regional differences in poutine by all means start a thread, but a certain degree of order is appreciated and topics are much prettier if they stay on topic.

If anyone has something to say regarding the original post, please do so.

Aside from that, sort out your differences regarding race in PM‘s and E-Mails if you must, or drop it. Speaking from experience, the best thing to do over the internet is just drop it.


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## Infanteer (5 Apr 2004)

I go away for three days and look what happens.  
Some people‘s children....


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## Rick_Donald (30 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Ex-Dragoon:
> [qb] PaulF....what provicial goverments do with their money has no bearing on Federal responsibilities, so what does that have to do with the CF? [/qb]


Iget so tired of explainig this to liberals. The provinces rely on transfer payments from the federal government to fund these programs. The transfer payments come from monies collected from taxes from all provinces. It is only fair that if Ontario contributes the bulk of this money due to hard work and ingenuity than they should get a sizable transfer payment back and our health care,education and infrastructure would be the world class program it once was before the French run federal government started diverting these funds to Quebec in all manner of programs.(ie. government grants to struggling Quebec corporations, sponsorship programs, grants to leftist non contributing arts and culture programs in Quebec,to only name a few.)


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## childs56 (2 May 2004)

well here goes hmmmm, rascism, how do we live in a country were the soldiers sailors and airmen take offence to everything. i am from the East coast family left when i was youg to persue a better life. hmmm welfare helped with that. now i live in BC and my parents are doing well. they both found work and got off the system as quick as they could. they were not proud to be on the system but you have to do what you have to do. now for all the people who need an incentive to find a job who are on welfare here goes. 3 years in the military. being paid the wages you would be on welfare. we can have babysitters to look after your kids while you are at work. money well spent yes if done right. i live on van island and i watched as some local welfare recipents were put on a project to redo a park. it took a little longer then normal but it worked and it saved the city all their busy skilled workers from doing it. point here is that if our goverment was willing to start making people work for there money i think it would be  different out thier. we really need to make people realize it is a privlage not a right to be on welfare.


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