# New Group "takes aim at military messaging"



## The Bread Guy (13 Sep 2007)

The latest in the fight of the peaceniks - thought you'd enjoy picking the piece apart .

Military Communities Speak Out web page -- web address registration details here here

My main comment:  nice article title, eh?  

*Dead Soldiers Aren't Funny*
New group takes aim at military messaging
Andrew MacLeod, Tyee.ca, 14 Sept 07
Article link

Hundreds of people criticized NATO during a protest outside Victoria's Hotel Grand Pacific September 8, but it was the naked bike rider who led the television news and whose bare butt made the cover of the following day's newspaper.

The coverage was typical of the mainstream media, says Francisco Juarez, one of the founders of the new group Military Communities Speak Out (MCSO). Often the media is more interested in a chuckle, he says, than it is in communicating ideas. The impression one gets is "gosh darn, aren't these 'protesters' some silly folks," he says. Viewers and readers get a cheap laugh, but it's at the expense of a deeper understanding of the issues.

Says Juarez, "There's no moral weight given to the arguments. That's why controlling the medium of the message is so important. We can't rely on larger media organizations to communicate our arguments."

Juarez and his partner, Diane Bedard, launched MCSO in recent weeks with a website and an e-mail address (info@milcomspeakout.ca). It is aimed at "those unsatisfied by government policy and the bias of uncritical corporate media." But here's the twist: the organization is for current and former members of the military and their families. People like Juarez and Bedard.

Buffered from reality

They modelled the organization on the 3,000-plus member American group, Military Families Speak Out. Both groups are, says Juarez, "Places for people to share their stories, really, outside the military framework." Often, he says, military families get caught in the armed forces' and governments' efforts to control the message and end up feeling silenced. It's empowering, he says, to learn you're not alone. "To unite those voices is absolutely important."

Speaking on the phone from Massachusetts, MFSO co-founder Charley Richardson says he'd heard there were Canadians talking about starting a group, but didn't know they were organized yet. "We feel the voice of military families and those who are directly impacted are very important," he says. "I think the experience of MFSO in the United States is that we bring to the conversation what we sometimes call, 'skin in the game.'"

Despite the number of casualties in Iraq, most Americans are buffered from the reality of the war. People with military experience can give a clearer picture of what it is like, he says, and what it means to give a life for a cause of dubious worth. "It is frankly easy to send someone else's loved ones off to war, certainly than it is to send your own."

MFSO formed in November 2002 as America prepared to invade Iraq. It is opposed to that war, but has not yet taken a position on Afghanistan. There is debate on whether the war in Afghanistan is just, says Richardson, though it should be seen as connected to the Iraq war. He says, "Canada's role in Afghanistan has freed up U.S. troops to be in Iraq. In that way you can't entirely disconnect the two."

Shedding the uniform

Over the past year Juarez, who grew up on the Sunshine Coast and in Vancouver, has told his own story of leaving the Canadian army because of distaste for the direction of the country's mission in Afghanistan. He still feels stung by much of what reporters did with that story, especially a November 2006 piece that ran in Maclean's magazine with the headline "A resister without a war." The article argued that Juarez had portrayed himself as a "war resister" even though there was never any guarantee he would ever be sent to Afghanistan, and in fact he would have had to volunteer to go before that happened.

"I never claimed I was more than what I was," says Juarez. "It was a lot of journalists getting their facts wrong, which was disappointing, but I couldn't do anything about it." When he transferred from the navy to the army it was in hopes of going to Afghanistan, he says, but as he read more about Canada's role there he decided he wanted no part of it. He hadn't finished training yet and the army was not about to send him to Afghanistan. "I acknowledged and I said honestly during interviews that was my situation."

And yet the stories became very personal, he says, most of them attacking his character instead of engaging with what he had to say. Combined with a return to school, they contributed to a stressful year for him. "You can't fight that stuff all the time. I wanted to fight like a pit bull, but it ends up tiring you out."

So the subtleties of his story were generally missed. When he signed up, he says, the Liberals were in power and the war in Afghanistan was being spun as a humanitarian mission. "It was after 2001 and the Canadian government under the Liberals came to the understanding in the months after the attack there was going to be a seed change and they'd have to increase the number of people in the armed forces," he says. "I felt a three year commitment with the armed forces would allow me to serve my country, because I do believe in Canada very strongly."

'A good ally'

Juarez figured the armed forces would stand for the ideals Canadians believe in. He's proud, he says, that we are a multicultural society where people are respectful of differences. There is a way of doing things and a commitment to international cooperation that makes us distinct from the United States.

But soon conservative Stephen Harper became prime minister and it became clear the country and the armed forces were moving in a new direction. As Juarez sees it, Harper was much cozier with the United States. With the conflict last summer between Israel and Lebanon, Harper was unquestioningly pro-Israel, seemingly ignorant that there was more to the story. It was not a perspective that would lead to peace, says Juarez. "I saw the road ahead as being very problematic for Canada."

Victoria Peace Coalition activist Phil Lyons says Juarez is a welcome addition to the anti-war movement. "He's a good person to work with, a good ally," he says. "He learned some things in the army that are very useful to the movement." Skills like first aid are helpful at a rally, he says, but it's the perspective Juarez brings that's key. "What's really important is you're not going to get fundamental change in this society unless you can get members of the army and the police on your side.... It's a very important piece of the opposition to the Canadian military involvement in Afghanistan and to NATO's agenda."

Canada's mission shift

While the nature of our military has shifted, says Juarez, public opinion and governing legislation haven't kept up. "A lot of people identify them as peacekeepers," Juarez says. "In actuality an army has a whole set of beliefs and actions that are unrelated to peacekeeping." At its core, as taught in infantry school, the army's purpose is to "close with" and defeat an enemy. That makes it hard for the forces to do humanitarian work. Friends who went to Afghanistan said the "humanitarian mission" story was largely a lie, he says. There were no hospitals or schools being built. The support for strengthening the country was minimal.

Instead, whatever small aid the army offered became part of the military effort. "You get people who are very poor who'll respond to a private handing out a small package of medical equipment," he says. You generate good feelings in some people in the short term. But others will understand their land is being occupied by an invading force, he says. When the army leaves, how will those two groups of people get along? "What you're doing is sowing the seeds for the escalation of the conflict."

Canadians need to take a close look at what our army is doing in Afghanistan, he says, and whether it's likely to be successful. We also need a broader discussion on what our armed forces should be doing, what values they should be representing. "We need to look at what direction we want our armed forces to go."

Juarez says he hopes Military Communities Speak Out will encourage that debate, whether by participating in rallies like the one against NATO last weekend, or by connecting people. He says, "One should be an active member. One can be critical, certainly, but one should be critical and participatory."



- edited to add URL registration link and clean up a touch -


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## George Wallace (13 Sep 2007)

WOW!  Francisco is really......................really.............Ah!......It is beyond words.   :  If he didn't make it as a "Poster Child" for these groups, in the way that he and they expected, they should have all read the signs.......  He is a looser and no one really cares.  His day in the limelight has come and gone.  His ship has sailed, and he was left on the dock.  Even with a porkchop around his neck, the dog don't want to play with him.  He has passed his "Best Before Date".  His 24 hour deodorant wasn't.  His parrot has passed on....it has demised.....croaked.....gone to its maker.....expired.....is pushing up daisies........is no longer.......deceased.........

On a serious side.....perhaps that site may become as popular as "The Onion", for the same reasons, even if unintentionally.


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## Brad Sallows (13 Sep 2007)

It's difficult to pay any attention to a group which gilds the lily with its name.  Honesty should compel them to add the adjective "Fringe" as a prefix to their name.  Someone call a press conference if the membership count of people with former service in excess of basic training ever hits 3 digits.


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## McG (13 Sep 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Francisco Juarez, one of the founders of the new group Military Communities Speak Out (MCSO)


I am a Canadian soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me or for my community.


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## George Wallace (13 Sep 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Over the past year Juarez, who grew up on the Sunshine Coast and in Vancouver, has told his own story of leaving the Canadian army because of distaste for the direction of the country's mission in Afghanistan. He still feels stung by much of what reporters did with that story, especially a November 2006 piece that ran in Maclean's magazine with the headline "A resister without a war." The article argued that Juarez had portrayed himself as a "war resister" even though there was never any guarantee he would ever be sent to Afghanistan, and in fact he would have had to volunteer to go before that happened.
> 
> "I never claimed I was more than what I was," says Juarez. "It was a lot of journalists getting their facts wrong, which was disappointing, but I couldn't do anything about it." When he transferred from the navy to the army it was in hopes of going to Afghanistan, he says, but as he read more about Canada's role there he decided he wanted no part of it. He hadn't finished training yet and the army was not about to send him to Afghanistan. "I acknowledged and I said honestly during interviews that was my situation."
> 
> ...



I think the only one missing the "subtleties" is Francisco Juarez.  It still hasn't sunk in that as a Reservist, he was not going to Afghanistan unless he volunteered.....after he had completed his training.  

I am a Canadian soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, nor anyone in my circle of family and friends.


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## Edward Campbell (13 Sep 2007)

I am part of the _*Military Community*_ having spent most of my adult life in the Army, still being active in a couple of Regimental Associations and now being affiliated with The Ruxted Group. MCSO most certainly does *not* speak for me, either.


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## JesseWZ (13 Sep 2007)

I am a very young subordinate officer, but Francisco Juarez and his "community"  does not speak for me either.


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## a_majoor (13 Sep 2007)

Interesting perspective:



			
				milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Says Juarez, "There's no moral weight given to the arguments. That's why controlling the medium of the message is so important. We can't rely on larger media organizations to communicate our arguments."



Isn't that the argument from our side of the fence? Where is the moral weight of reporting which ignores the PRT and redevelopment effort, or fails to mention the RCMP and Charlettown Police officers training the Afghan Police, or Corrections Canada Officers training the staff at the Kandahar City Prison, or the role of CIDA, etc. etc?

Since military members and their families are probably the most sensitive to the errors and omissions of the MSM because of personal experience or contact with people who have "been there, done that", I suspect the membership will be very thin on the desired demographic, and very full of people with particular axes to grind. Reading the rest of the article is simply a replay of the same distorted thinking and ahistorical perspective that the MSM and political hacks are feeding to us already, so this group is only shouting into a crowded echo chamber.

We have more important and interesting things to spend our time on, and of course should be cultivating media to provide stories and reporting which really does have *moral weight* behind it.


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## CrazyCanuck (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me or my community.


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## teddybear (14 Sep 2007)

I am a military *widow* and MCSO and Juarez do not speak for me or my family!


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## retiredgrunt45 (14 Sep 2007)

> I am a Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me or my community.





> I am a military widow and MCSO and Juarez do not speak for me or my family!



My deepest sympathies to you and your family Teddybear.

 These two people i'm sure speak for the majority of the miltary community.

I'm ex military and Juarez has a "YELLOW STREAK RUNNING FROM HIS HEAD TO HIS ***!!

 It's like George mentioned above, his ship sailed, his ship sunk, to bad he didn't go down with it.

 Whata wanker.


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## xo31@711ret (14 Sep 2007)

I am a retired Canadian soldier who just rejoined with the reserves, and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me,  family or friends.


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## Command-Sense-Act 105 (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or community.


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## Jorkapp (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian solider and in no way, shape, or form does Francisco Juarez speak for or represent myself, my family, or my community.


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## PMed (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me or my family.


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## Reccesoldier (14 Sep 2007)

I'm a Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez doesn't speak for me... as a matter of fact I have yet to see Mr. Juarez speak anywhere where there has been a significant military contingent present.  That is the telling thing about who his message is from, and it isn't from us!


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## beach_bum (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or my community.


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## armyvern (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian soldier. Franciso Juarez does NOT speak for me, my family, nor my community.



* Franciso Juarez can blame the media for his situation all he wants; fact Mr Juarez: there is a thread on this very site where a certain television interview you voluntarily participated in was watched & discussed, and it was noted that you did ZERO to correct the now _self-claimed-supposed-misrepresentation_ of your inferred _'war-resistor' _status you now choose to blame on the media. You did nothing; you had opportunity; you do NOT speak for me.


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## medaid (14 Sep 2007)

I was a Canadian Soldier, now I am a Canadian Sailor. In NO WAY does Francisco Juares speak for me, my family or my community.


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## KevinB (14 Sep 2007)

I'm a "Has Been" - but in no way would I take his comments as speaking for me, or any of my friends who are still serving...


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## kratz (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Sailor and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or my community.


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## Etienne (14 Sep 2007)

I am a proud CANADIAN soldier now serving in A Stan... and Francisco Juares  has no right and does not have my permission to speak for me... :threat:

To all the others that have served before me... CHIMO !    

Etienne


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## PMedMoe (14 Sep 2007)

My spouse and I are military soldiers who have both served in Afghanistan.  My father, two sisters and two brothers-in-law were airmen and women.  Francisco Juarez certainly does *not* speak for us!!


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## COBRA-6 (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or my community.


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## MG34 (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or my community.

P.S. Without aggressive military action to secure and set the proper conditions in significant areas of the country there would be NO aid in Afghanistan


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## Bruce Monkhouse (14 Sep 2007)

I wasn't even that good of a soldier and this moron certainly doesn't cluck for me.......................


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## Kat Stevens (14 Sep 2007)

I am a retired Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or my community.


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## Zell_Dietrich (14 Sep 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> I am a Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or my community.



I think I have a new t-shirt idea! .... My only question is "with photograph" or without?


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## 2 Cdo (14 Sep 2007)

Soon to be retired Canadian soldier who has been to Afghanistan and he can jam his opinions and beliefs right where everyone has one!


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## HItorMiss (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me!

PS: On a personal note with 2 tours in Afghanistan both of which I volunteered for (in that they came and asked who wanted to go) I doubt Juarez has the nessary parts to ever be able to speak for me!


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## alfie (14 Sep 2007)

My email

Your group professes to represent the Military Community, however you fail to grasp that yours is not representative of me or those I consider my brothers & sisters.
As a veteran and ex service member I am offended that you would hide behind such a name for yourself and not show your true intent.
...........................
Hope you all send your comments into their site email address.

milcomspeakout@yahoo.ca


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## Old Sweat (14 Sep 2007)

I am a retired Canadian soldier and Fransisco Juarez most certainly does not speak for me.

I will not dignify him by expressing my opinion of him and his ilk.


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## Nfld Sapper (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soilder and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or my community.


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## Hawk (14 Sep 2007)

I'm ex-forces, and I'll thank everybody NOT to speak for me - I'm quite capable of speaking for myself, thank you very much!

What a moron!


Hawk


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## c_canuk (14 Sep 2007)

I am a member of the Canadian Forces and Francisco Juarez and his organization does not and will never speak for me.

As a reservist the idea of Francisco Juarez appointing himself as speaker for the Canadian Forces INFURIATES and NAUSIATES me.


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## Hawk (14 Sep 2007)

Did you read the links in the Article Link? Please do.  Enough to scare you! Its getting so I don't recognize my own country, or the people who live here.


Hawk


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## Poppa (14 Sep 2007)

It is because I'm a Canadian Soldier that these people think they can speak for me.


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## larry Strong (14 Sep 2007)

I am a retired Canadian soldier and Fransisco Juarez most certainly does not speak for me or my family, some of whom are still serving.


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## ArmyRick (14 Sep 2007)

Fransisco Juarez is not a soldier
Fransisco Juarez never was a soldier
Fransisco Juarez never will be a soldier
Fransisco Juarez doesn't understand honour, discipline, duty, integrity and loyalty
Fransisco Juarez is a big fat anti-war demonstrator because he could not hack it on his training and lack the intestinal fortitude to gut it out
Fransisco Juarez does not, has not and will never speak for me...

I AM A CANADIAN SOLDIER!


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## xena (14 Sep 2007)

I am a retired Canadian Soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family or my community.

Mr Juarez is a con-artist.  Nothing more.


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## Sig_Des (14 Sep 2007)

I am a serving Canadian soldier, who has served in Afghanistan on a volunteer basis. Francisco Suarez and th MCSO do NOT speak for me.

In fact, the fact that the MCSO even HAS a voice is attributable to past and present members of the Canadian military, through THEIR service.


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## The Bread Guy (14 Sep 2007)

Zell_Dietrich said:
			
		

> I think I have a new t-shirt idea! .... My only question is "with photograph" or without?



How's this?

DISCLOSURE:  I've set the purchase price at $US 1 more than what the site charges me, and if this intrigues enough for you to fork over $, I'll donate the buck a shirt to the PRT fund set up by Edmonton Garrison.

Anyone?  Anyone?


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## armyvern (14 Sep 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> How's this?
> 
> DISCLOSURE:  I've set the purchase price at $US 1 more than what the site charges me, and if this intrigues enough for you to fork over $, I'll donate the buck a shirt to the PRT fund set up by Edmonton Garrison.
> 
> Anyone?  Anyone?



Gee, you're quick.

I noted this: Girl's tees!!



> Smaller cut, designed to fit tightly. Size up for a looser fit.


 But read the last as "loser" fit. How Freudian of me.

Must fish out the credit cards ...

Because I fully support the PRT!!




_Edit:_ And because Franciso Juarez does NOT speak for me.


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## Zell_Dietrich (14 Sep 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> How's this?
> 
> DISCLOSURE:  I've set the purchase price at $US 1 more than what the site charges me, and if this intrigues enough for you to fork over $, I'll donate the buck a shirt to the PRT fund set up by Edmonton Garrison.
> 
> Anyone?  Anyone?



Gadng Nabbit!  Here I was fussing about what design would be best ... Good work!


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## Mortar guy (14 Sep 2007)

I am a soldier in the Canadian Forces and Fransisco Juarez does not speak for me.

MG


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## Scoobs (14 Sep 2007)

I am a military member who volunteered to serve in Afghanistan and this charlatan, Fransico Juarez, definiteley does not speak for my family, my friends, my co-workers, nor me!  You are a coward of the true sense of the word Mr. Juarez.


The edit is because I went to his website and I'm wondering, that isn't even a Canadian uniform!  This guy is pathetic!


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## geo (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian soldier and Francisco Juarez most certainly does not speak for me, nor anyone in my circle of family and friends

CHIMO!


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## stealthylizard (14 Sep 2007)

I am a former Reservist, and a future Regular Force soldier and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me.  Might speak for my family, but that's an entirely different topic.


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## Mike Baker (14 Sep 2007)

I hope to become a proud Canadian soldier next year, and in no way will Francisco Juarez speak for me or my family.


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## Loachman (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Tac Hel pilot with thirty-four years of experience who has volunteered for Afghanistan. This poser neither speaks for me nor anybody that I know.

As a reservist, I do not have to go.

I want to, because I believe in the value of this mission to the ordinary Afghan people and our own security here in Canada.


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## kilekaldar (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian soldier with one completed tour in Afghanistan and another one scheduled for late '09, and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, or anyone I care about.

In my own opinion Francisco Juarez speaks only for Francisco Juarez.


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## xena (14 Sep 2007)

kilekaldar said:
			
		

> Francisco Juarez speaks only for Francisco Juarez.



Nail on the head, I'd say!


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## Donut (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier.  Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family, or my community.


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## TCBF (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier.  Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family, or my community.


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## Dog Walker (14 Sep 2007)

I was a member of the reserves, and my son is a current member of the reserves who is presently serving in Afghanistan. How dare Mr. Francisco Juarez presume that he speaks for anyone but himself!


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## Mike Bobbitt (14 Sep 2007)

I was a Canadian Reservist, and neither Francisco Juarez nor MCSO speak for me.


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## The Bread Guy (14 Sep 2007)

I am a former Reservist -- never deployed, but lucky enough to have helped, in a very small way, to train some who eventually did (and did well) -- Francisco Juarez and MCSO can speak, but only I speak for me.


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## Armyman (14 Sep 2007)

As a Canadian soldier with 31 years service, Francisco Juarez does not speak on my behalf.


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## cavalryman (14 Sep 2007)

I have been a Canadian soldier for 27 years; my wife was a Canadian soldier; my father, grandfather, uncles, father-in-law, multiple brothers-in-law and sister-in-law are or have been Canadian soldiers.  My extended family have over 200 years worth of service to this country.  Francisco Juarez and MCSO have no right to pretend to speak for me and mine.  On behalf of all my relatives, myself and my troops in Afghanistan, I can only say: "How dare they!"  

How dare an utter failure of an officer candidate pretend to know anything about soldiering or what a Canadian soldier thinks.  Shame.


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## Mike Rochefort (14 Sep 2007)

This "mass of erectile tissue" no pun intended !!!!Has no right or my permission as a retired member of the CF to presume he speaks for me.


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## Cloud Cover (14 Sep 2007)

I am a former member of the Canadian Forces, and Francisco Juarez and his ilk do not speak for me, my family or my community.


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## Private Parts (14 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier.

I am proud of who I am.

Francisco Juarez is a useless, good-for-nothing, weak, lazy lying piece of sh!t.

That's all he was.  That's all he is.  That's all he ever will be will be.

And he will NEVER be good enough to speak for me.


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## Private Parts (14 Sep 2007)

Forgot to mention - bought a shirt.  Thanks milnewstbay.


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## RangerRay (14 Sep 2007)

I only spent 5 years (1 yr Reg OCdt, 4 yrs Res. NCM) in the Army, and this waste of rations does not speak for me.


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## Jaydub (14 Sep 2007)

I'm a Canadian Sailor, and Francisco Juarez does not speak for me.  I'm ashamed that this man once wore the uniform.


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## FSTO (15 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Naval Officer and Mr. Juarez does not speak for me, my family, or my fellow service members.


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## Strike (15 Sep 2007)

I am an officer in the Canadian Air Force and Francisco Juarez certainly does not speak for me!


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## GAP (15 Sep 2007)

Not to degrade to comments posted here, but why are we posting here, rather than the site that the supporters of Francisco Juarez frequent?

It would be far more effective and stronger message. Is there such a site? what's it link, if anyone knows...


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Sep 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> Not to degrade to comments posted here, but why are we posting here, rather than the site that the supporters of Francisco Juarez frequent?
> 
> It would be far more effective and stronger message. Is there such a site? what's it link, if anyone knows...



Site is under construction unless you want them to have your personal email addy.

EDITED TO ADD

Military Communities Speak Out (MCSO) Webpage


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## armyvern (15 Sep 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> Not to degrade to comments posted here, but why are we posting here, rather than the site that the supporters of Francisco Juarez frequent?
> 
> It would be far more effective and stronger message. Is there such a site? what's it link, if anyone knows...



It's currently "under construction".  

No worries, I will be sharing my two-bits upon it's launch.

Beginning with this:



> Good day,
> 
> I note that your site mentions this in it's headline:
> 
> ...


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## Mike Bobbitt (15 Sep 2007)

Love the photo too... anyone else see some irony in it? (Other than the fact that the soldier appears to be saying "Doh!")


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## the 48th regulator (15 Sep 2007)

Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> Love the photo too... anyone else see some irony in it? (Other than the fact that the soldier appears to be saying "Doh!")










 :rofl:


Francisco Juarez, although he certainly does not speak for me, please do not stop the humour from coming!

dileas

tess


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## manhole (15 Sep 2007)

He does not speak for me, my wife or my two sons........we all served our country with pride.   Ubique


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## Shec (15 Sep 2007)

Suffice to say that after reviewing the preceeding 5 pages of comments one would hope that even a presumptuous and politically naive little left-wing dupe like Francisco Juarez should realize that a truly credible Canadian *M*ilitary *C*ommunity has *S*poken*  Out.

What is the source of the chip on his shoulder anyway?   Did he RTU to his mommy after some big meanie of an NCO barked at him on the parade square?  :crybaby:*


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## Flip (15 Sep 2007)

Does anyone what uniform the poor despairing soul in the photo is wearing?

Maybe he's sad because he's NOT Canadian.  ;D

Oh and this..........

I'm a Canadian civilian and I don't think Juarez speaks for anyone......


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## armyvern (15 Sep 2007)

Shec said:
			
		

> Did he RTU to his mommy after some big meanie of an NCO barked at him on the parade square?  :crybaby:



Well, this one time at Band Camp on the obstacle course ...


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## ArmyRick (15 Sep 2007)

What peeves me off about this dirt bag is that he was once in uniform and trying to "earn" his way into the army. Just because the CF enrolls you, in the eyes of any CF service member you aren't a member until you pay your dues at BMQ, trades training, etc, etc.

I have dealt with people who have had a change of heart or simply were not fit for CF service during their initial training. For the most part they quietly accept that the CF is not or was not for them and go on to their civilian lives.

So this peice of garbage wants to slander the CF and portray himself as some kind of ex-service member. NO FREAKING WAY!


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## Good2Golf (15 Sep 2007)

I'd listen to what a soldier having served in Afghanistan would have to say.  Francisco Juarez did not serve in Afghanistan and thus is not qualified to talk about what we are achieving in Afghanistan.  He and his group is even less qualified to speak for me or any members of my family.


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## geo (16 Sep 2007)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> What peeves me off about this dirt bag is that he was once in uniform and trying to "earn" his way into the army. Just because the CF enrolls you, in the eyes of any CF service member you aren't a member until you pay your dues at BMQ, trades training, etc, etc.
> 
> I have dealt with people who have had a change of heart or simply were not fit for CF service during their initial training. For the most part they quietly accept that the CF is not or was not for them and go on to their civilian lives.
> 
> So this peice of garbage wants to slander the CF and portray himself as some kind of ex-service member. NO FREAKING WAY!



Rick,
If you have followed the various threads on this fella's background you will know that
1.  He has qualified BMQ
2. He has qualified in his trade.... Ab seaman (or whatever)
3. He has served on several ships and has been deployed (on ships)
From a few people on this site, he did a fair job as a sailor.

Now, he decided to leave the regs and tried to become a Reserve officer - Arty trade - some unit in BC

He washed out during his phase training and was RTUd .......

Know the person you're slagging


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## one_speed (16 Sep 2007)

**RANT**

Now I am sure that the DS here at army.ca might be able to support or refute the following stement but I have noticed a common thread among many of the "protest" groups being discussed here over the last while.

Now being a novice website designer and ongoing procrastinator (web surfer) my biggest pet peeve is websites with dead links, or "under construction" banners.

Why do all of these groups that seem to surface briefly in the MSM always link back to themselves or to dead links, do press releases with links to websites "underconstruction". with no means to comment or learn more about their position.  It really isn't that difficult to have a basic webiste design and post information or contacts for comment.  I'm sure managing a forum such as this site is much more work, but come on...

They jump in front of the camera, spew their garbage, refer us to their "Official website" and carry on with no ability to accept feedback or criticism.  Comments for the most part seem to be limited to sites like army.ca.

Oh yeah, I've met people like this guy during training in my short time in the CF (not impressed to say the least) and he most definitely does not speak for me or mine.

Regards,

Ian


p.s. Copy of the email I sent to the MCSO email:

To whom it may concern;

I am curious,

So now that you have announced the creation of this website, how long ( if ever)  until the forum is up and running so that we can have the discussion?  Or is this site only accepting comments in support of your position?

Hope to see the forum up and running soon.

IC


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## Greymatters (17 Sep 2007)

From the website: http://www.milcomspeakout.ca/MCSO/index.html

Military Communities Speak Out  - apparently against Mr. Juarez...

Uniting Military Families, veterans, and serving member for Peace - (disregarding the apparent inability to consistently use capitals...) uniting them in a manner he probably did not foresee...against himself. 

Announcing the creation of MilComSpeakOut.ca; a forum and information resource centre for the military community relating to criticism and perspective on Canada's mission in Afghanistan. - ...despite the fact that it lacks a forum and any information resources.  Lack of planning, specifically the putting the 'cart before the horse' aspect, seems to have occured here. 

Military Communities Speak Out is a site for those unsatisfied by government policy and the bias of uncritical corporate media. We offer a meeting place for current and former members of the military to add their stories. - We? Is this the royal 'we' or is there a large anonymous (yet poorly funded) corporate structure backing him?  Perhaps someone in his corporate structure can volunteer some web design expertise?   

If you have family members or loved ones in the military and  are opposed to this war, join us by sending an e-mail to milcomspeakout@yahoo.ca - Interesting, so the media is biased, but Juarez is not?  Apparently you must be linked to the military AND also have an unfavorable opinion in order to join this select fraternity.  Those with favorable opinions of the military apparently do not belong to the military community and need not apply...

This site is currently under construction. Please check back regularly as we continue to build...  - I think this will be based on future donations...

485  - Mostly Milnet.ca members...


Mr. Juarez, please dont speak.... period.


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## The Bread Guy (17 Sep 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> From the website: http://www.milcomspeakout.ca/MCSO/index.html
> (....)
> 485  - Mostly Milnet.ca members...
> (....)



My first good giggle of the day - thanks, GM!


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## Greymatters (17 Sep 2007)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> My first good giggle of the day - thanks, GM!



Fortunately my absence has not dulled my pen of sarcasm... but it sure takes a while to go through 13 pages of threads...


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## M Feetham (17 Sep 2007)

I do have a problem with the government policy, why don't they have policy against guys like him forming groups like that. If they could cook up something to control people like him it would make me very happy. Maybe when they get the website up and running I will post this on there too.

Having taught at CFLRS and potentially having some of the troops that I have helped trained deploy to and potentially die in A stan, I feel truly insulted.

I am a Canadian Sailor.  Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family, or my community.

Feet


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## Greymatters (18 Sep 2007)

Unfortunately, our blood gets spilt on behalf of the governments they elect and in order to ensure they have the right to form such groups...


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## M Feetham (18 Sep 2007)

I hear you, I was saying it more for comic relief than anything else, the first part not the second.
Feet


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## Greymatters (18 Sep 2007)

You know how it is... we'll be bitching about this until we're 80...


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## a_majoor (20 Sep 2007)

I wonder if they have an answer to _this_ message: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/66263/post-615974.html#msg615974


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## The Bread Guy (24 Sep 2007)

And it begins - shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

*Soldier's mom wants troops home*
Gail Swainson, Toronto Star, 24 Sept 07
Article link

Her son has just returned from a tour of duty in Afghanistan and now a Canadian mother is laying the groundwork for her own military battle: to bring the rest of the troops home.

Andria Hill-Lehr of Canadian Military Communities Speak Out, a fledgling group of military families against Canada's presence in Afghanistan, makes it clear she unconditionally supports the troops.

"But that is not synonymous with supporting a warped political agenda," Hill-Lehr told a women's Steelworkers convention in Toronto yesterday.

"We do not support the mess in Afghanistan," she added. "We deplore the loss of life both in our military and of innocent civilians caught in the crossfire."

Hill-Lehr's son, 23-year-old Garrow Hill-Stosky, joined the military as a reservist at 16. He was deployed to Afghanistan on Dec. 8, 2006, returning June 30.

While the two don't always see eye-to-eye on the military's role in Afghanistan, "he respects my right to say what I believe.

"He says he is there fighting for his democratic rights," Hill-Lehr said in an interview later. "He embraces the ideals of peacekeeping."

New Democrat MP Peggy Nash (Parkdale-High Park) told the convention: "We ought to end this mission, we ought to bring our troops home."

Canada now has 2,300 troops serving primarily in Kandahar. Seventy Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed since 2002.


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## GAP (24 Sep 2007)

Is this not the one that was stirring up the shyte when her son was on tour.......twit  :


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## armyvern (24 Sep 2007)

Same twit, different pile.

Oh well, let her speak ... perhaps she'll get her facts right eventually -- talked about warped agendas.


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## Zell_Dietrich (24 Sep 2007)

It is hard when someone you love doesn't believe in the mission.  It does seem that they do respect eachother's opinions though.


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## TCBF (24 Sep 2007)

"New Democrat MP Peggy Nash (Parkdale-High Park) told the convention: "We ought to end this mission, we ought to bring our troops home.""

- So we can send them all out tree planting, right Peggy?


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## sneezy (25 Sep 2007)

I am a Canadian Soldier.  Francisco Juarez does not speak for me, my family, or my community


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## The Bread Guy (14 Oct 2007)

Just an update.  

Four of you were good enough to buy t-shirts.  I've topped up the $4 in proceeds to $100, and the cheque is on its way to K'Har PRT fund as I type.  

Thanks!


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## Journeyman (14 Oct 2007)

Sorry for the delay in posting this, but I'm somewhat busy over here in Afghanistan.....as is my partner.....for a just cause in which we believe.

I am a Canadian Soldier and neither Francisco Juarez nor MCSO speak for me, my family, or my community.



Oh, and we're both Reservists now; we volunteered, were accepted, and took a year off from our careers for this deployment, just as Juarez would have had to. 
"War Resister" my ass.  :


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## geo (14 Oct 2007)

Jopurneyman....
Never too late to speak up!

Chimo!


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## Strike (14 Oct 2007)

Wore my t-shirt this weekend at my TKD training camp.  There were a few chuckles.   ;D


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## McG (14 Oct 2007)

One reply away from 100, and not a single person feel that MCSO represents them.  Seems suggesting they represent the military community is more than a little bit of a lie.


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## aesop081 (14 Oct 2007)

here is #100

I am a Canadian Soldier and neither Francisco Juarez nor MCSO speak for me, my family, or my community.


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## Gardiners1 (14 Oct 2007)

I am currently in the application process to become a Canadian Soldier, when I make it will be the proudest day of my life.  This dullard does not speak for me or my family and friends that support me.


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## Jarnhamar (14 Oct 2007)




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## George Wallace (14 Oct 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

>



And this is supposed to mean what?  Are you going to comment on what you posted or just become a Troll?


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## Zell_Dietrich (14 Oct 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> And this is supposed to mean what?  Are you going to comment on what you posted or just become a Troll?



I think he was making fun of a promanent "war resister".  But I do tend to be tendentious.


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## Jarnhamar (14 Oct 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> And this is supposed to mean what?  Are you going to comment on what you posted or just become a Troll?



Well George, Zell_Dietrich caught on but I'll explain it for you.

This fellow Francisco Juarez was a reservist when he became "a war resister", as you very well know.
A reservist, as you know, would in fact have to ASK to go to Afghanistan, the CF would not order him to go. 
I've personally asked 4 times to go overseas, I was never at risk of being forced to go there.

I am indeed making fun of this fellow for the hole war resister blanket he wrapped himself in. He never had a problem with that mantle until he came under fire as this little fact came out then he back tracked.

Savvy?


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## George Wallace (14 Oct 2007)

Zell_Dietrich said:
			
		

> I think he was making fun of a promanent "war resister".  But I do tend to be tendentious.



Sure you can assume that, and his post in reply to yours seems to vindicate himself, and agree with you; BUT he simply posted a jpg that could in fact be taken as trolling.......seeing as he didn't dignify his post with a comment one way or the other.  So......as they say about the word "assume", without clarification on his original intent, he could have been simply trolling.  Now he has stepped forward with the explanation that:



			
				Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Well George, Zell_Dietrich caught on but I'll explain it for you.
> 
> This fellow Francisco Juarez was a reservist when he became "a war resister", as you very well know.
> A reservist, as you know, would in fact have to ASK to go to Afghanistan, the CF would not order him to go.
> ...




I SAVVY just fine.  That was some assumption on your part to think all would take it as a simple joke on your part without any commentary to back up your post.  Your presentation sucks.  Better luck next time.


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## McG (14 Oct 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

>





			
				Zell_Dietrich said:
			
		

> I think he was making fun of a promanent "war resister".


The sad thing is, I could see this poster being something that said "resister" (& his supporters) would think makes a lot of sense.  This joke contains the same basic message that was mailed to Valcartier & area residents.


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## Jarnhamar (14 Oct 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I SAVVY just fine.  That was some assumption on your part to think all would take it as a simple joke on your part without any commentary to back up your post.  Your presentation sucks.  Better luck next time.



Hey thanks George and sorry I confused you.

I've only been on the forum 2 years longer than you, and with close to 12'000 posts I figured you of all people would have picked up my sarcasim. 

Though I guess if you didn't pick up on it then other members may not have.  Perhaps yes my presentation could have sucked and in the future with some of that fancy luck I shall take more care when dealing with implied intent


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## George Wallace (14 Oct 2007)

It was just a joke gone bad, and that is the end of it. 

I am sure everyone now sees the true intent.

Thanks.


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## Loachman (14 Oct 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Though I guess if you didn't pick up on it then other members may not have.



I was not sure of the intent, either.

Remember, this is an imperfect means of communication - no tone, body language, facial expression etcetera.

If something CAN be interpreted, it WILL be, by at least one of the hundreds or thousands that view it.


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## Zell_Dietrich (18 Oct 2007)

MCG said:
			
		

> The sad thing is, I could see this poster being something that said "resister" (& his supporters) would think makes a lot of sense.  This joke contains the same basic message that was mailed to Valcartier & area residents.



I happen to agree with you 100%.  I deal with anti-war people all the time.  And yes they would take the position that just because you're not in danger of being forced to go (yet) that you should still do the right thing and speak up for "the better way". From their point of view it is a cohesive set of values and actions.  

Like most people on this site,  I strongly disagree with the fundamental assumptions the "anti-afghanistan mission" crowd has made. I'm curious how this group will change its messaging now that there is a committee looking into it for Parliament.  (Most of the Liberals I know strongly support the mission and in fact that is their main reason for wanting to pitch Dion)


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## Strike (18 Oct 2007)

Reading the post about the anti-war protest in Victoria on 27 Oct, noticed that Mr Juarez is going to be there.

Of note, his site is STILL "under construction."


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## Jaydub (18 Oct 2007)

Strike said:
			
		

> Reading the post about the anti-war protest in Victoria on 27 Oct, noticed that Mr Juarez is going to be there.
> 
> Of note, his site is STILL "under construction."



I noticed that too.

And I'm sure the majority of it's 900+ hits are from members of this site, waiting for a guestbook to be opened.


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