# O'Connor in the news again



## Hunter (20 Mar 2006)

I just heard on the news that Defence Minister Gord O'Connor dismisses criticisms of personal equipment made by troops.  The report said that he felt the complaint of one soldier that the TAC vest only holds 4 mags when they need 10 is off base.  

According to O'Connor, the TAC vest holds 80 round in 4 mags (funny - I learned on BMQ that a C-7 mag holds 30 rounds, not 20), and that is plenty.  I'm the first to admit I've never been on the pointy end, but the way I see it if the troops need 10 mags when they're out beyond the wire, then 10 mags and the equipment to to carry them should be readily available to the troops, and that's all there is to it.  He also said he did not approve of allowing the troops to use aftermarket equipment.

His quote was something like this:

"With 4 magazines the soildier is carrying 80 rounds.  With 10 magazines that's 200 rounds.  This is more than enough ammunition for what they are doing."

Anyone care to comment?


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## DG-41 (20 Mar 2006)

Perhaps he means C1 mags? 

DG


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## COBRA-6 (20 Mar 2006)

hehehe... good one


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## 043 (20 Mar 2006)

Again it seems like the old doctrine isn't catching up the new doctrine. 

Name one politician who isn't aware of what exactly we do and how we do it?


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## Cloud Cover (20 Mar 2006)

That article is going to be nothing but trouble and will cause a lot of grief for guys in the field, who will now be forced to use substandard equipment and possibly wind up dead if one gets cut off and runs out of ammo. 

Rather than defend the system, O'Connor should be asking questions, and Hillier should be taking names of those responsible for the equipment.


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## 043 (20 Mar 2006)

;D


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## mover1 (20 Mar 2006)

Maybe we can come to a comprimise and you can carry more mags in your pockets of your combat shirt. That should hold 6 extra mags bringing you up to the ten you need.....


NO WAIT SCRATCH THAT IDEA...I just remembered that the pockets are still designed for the C-1 Magazine... :warstory:

Until then all units and sub units please submit your UCR, and keep submitting them until they get the point.


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## Hunter (20 Mar 2006)

It was just a quick piece on the radio news, I haven't read anything on it yet.  I am however going to write to to him (He is my local MP) and express my concern over his comments.

C1 mag - was that the one for the FN rifle?


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## COBRA-6 (20 Mar 2006)

Hunter said:
			
		

> C1 mag - was that the one for the FN rifle?



Yes


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## bearded1 (20 Mar 2006)

Dang...and he's my MP, even after gerrymandering my riding.

Ubique

Regan


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## The Gues-|- (20 Mar 2006)

Hunter said:
			
		

> I just heard on the news that Defence Minister Gord O'Connor dismisses criticisms of personal equipment made by troops.  The report said that he felt the complaint of one soldier that the TAC vest only holds 4 mags when they need 10 is off base.
> 
> According to O'Connor, the TAC vest holds 80 round in 4 mags (funny - I learned on BMQ that a C-7 mag holds 30 rounds, not 20), and that is plenty.  I'm the first to admit I've never been on the pointy end, but the way I see it if the troops need 10 mags when they're out beyond the wire, then 10 mags and the equipment to to carry them should be readily available to the troops, and that's all there is to it.  He also said he did not approve of allowing the troops to use aftermarket equipment.
> 
> ...



Link?


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## George Wallace (20 Mar 2006)

http://www.cfra.com/headlines/index.asp?cat=2&nid=37615


> O'Connor To Check Troops' Complaints
> Norman Jack
> Monday, March 20, 2006
> 
> ...


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## mover1 (20 Mar 2006)

Well a long as Mr. O'Conner doesn't mothball the Centurions in Waitwright. Or Close CFB Chatam, (We have a lot of Voodoo's up there you know) I am sure we can give him a third chance. Until then we just keep our 77 sets tuned into the CBC for more on the story.


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## KevinB (20 Mar 2006)

> But O'Connor tells CFRA news that Canadian troops have been in Afghanistan for four years now, and this is the first time such complaints have been raised



I guess he never bothered looking up the UCR's we had written  :


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Mar 2006)

and how are you supposed to get to your mags in your pockets when they are covered up by a frag and tac vest?


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Mar 2006)

Time to write the MND and local MP.


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## KevinB (20 Mar 2006)

Dear ********* (aka MND)   ;D

 You know what scares me -- I am beginning to think the Liberals may have been better  :-\






PM inbound


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Mar 2006)

um Kev I wouldn't go that far.
P.S.  can I use you as a reference/quote you? ;D


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## KevinB (20 Mar 2006)

Be my guest

 --- FWIW I am going to write a rather scortching letter to him.  He's proving to be OUT of the loop on many issues - I think know Harper botched this appointment.


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Mar 2006)

OConnor.G@parl.gc.ca


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Mar 2006)

Be professional Kev.  We need your wisdom and words to resonate not by deflected.


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## KevinB (20 Mar 2006)

I just want to ask a few pointed questions.

IF there where no complaints by soldiers in previous Afghan trips - then pray tell me did those UCR's have an immaculate conception?


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Mar 2006)

I think I will have to spell out everything to him and try not to use acronyms.


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## GAP (20 Mar 2006)

Sent to the email address posted

Your comments regarding equipment were not accurate, nor helpful. I assume you have never been in any firefight, because if you had, you would realize the speed at which a magazine is emptied.

4 magazines are for guard duty. In the field, you want and need as many as you can carry...I know, I've been there, done that and there isn't enough ammo out there when you need it. 

Talk to the troops in the field...find out what works, what doesn't, and then TELL the procurement bunnies what is required, instead of letting some REMF decide for you. If you want to be recognized as a smart MND, you will listen to the troops out on the pointy end, they will not steer you wrong and will defend you to the hilt


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## Matt_Fisher (20 Mar 2006)

MP3 of the interview with Minister O'Connor on 580 CFRA
http://www.cfra.com/chum_audio/Gordon_OConnor_Mar20.mp3

"I'd be shocked if anybody needs 10 magazines.  4 magazines provides you with 80 bullets, 10 magazines provides you with 200 bullets.  All these people operate from vehicles where they carry more ammunition.  So, I can't understand, first, why this soldier would be using an unauthorized vest and secondly why he'd be carrying 10 mags."
-Minister of Defence O'Connor


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## The_Falcon (20 Mar 2006)

Don't hold your breath Kevin, I am still awaiting a reply I sent WRT to this http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37742/post-313214.html#msg313214 O'Connor ******* and needs to be replaced ASAP.


(Edited by Moderator to remove unnecessary comment.)


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Mar 2006)

Perhaps the rate of fire of a C7 should be listed as well as sending a copy of Blackhawk Down for what happens when you plan for the best and get in the shit.


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## GAP (20 Mar 2006)

Maybe, if we draw really simple pictures, showing troops getting into vehicle, driving, stopping, (aghast!!) troops getting out of vehicle, firing weapons while maneuvering (in simple terms running/crawling behind little tinny things that shelter you from great big bullets) away from vehicle, the Minister will understand. But I think someone should point out the the other guy doesn't always play fair. When our 80 bullets are used up and his aren't, he won't stop to let me go back and get more. Maybe a memo would help :-*


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Mar 2006)

All,
Lets attack the story and not the person's charactor. You think he's wrong, tell us why. 
Calling him a @#$% does not help the situation. ....ou contraire


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## Michael OLeary (20 Mar 2006)

Locked for a time out.

Sorry folks, venting time is over.  The staff will consider the sitaution, be forewarned this thread may be purged of all direct insults.  Such comments, while understandable in the heat of the moment, have no need for retention and detract from any attempts to actually discuss the issue.

If you have further comments, please save them to a text file, review them after the thread is reopened and post them then if sober second thought upholds the emotion and opinions expressed.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Mar 2006)

Unlocked,
heed the warnings folks.


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## KevinB (21 Mar 2006)

I will sit back and make a very detached and complex reply to this later and post it to the Minister as well.

He appears to be VERY uniformed - not only the fact that the C7/C8 weapon has a 30rd mag - but also that the basicload is 10mags.


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## mike01 (27 Mar 2006)

Well I would like to respond to the topic but it seems all the fun has been spoiled. Good comments though.


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