# The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy



## Fishbone Jones

This is one big boat!!

Compare it to the people on deck 

Russian Akula


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## TN2IC

The conning tower is about the size of a German U-Boat!


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## tomahawk6




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## aesop081

TYPHOON ( pictured in this thread) and AKULA are 2 different submarines

Thread title and the video article ( in the original post) are incorrect

TYPHOON :

http://www.deepseadesigns.net/graphics/pictures/typhoonatsea.jpg

AKULA:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/akula-DDST8911764.JPG


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## Cloud Cover

This has to be one of the best out of water bow shots of a Typhoon around. it's a chubby old bugger ...


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## medaid

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> This has to be one of the best out of water bow shots of a Typhoon around. it's a chubby old bugger ...



That girl's got some serious frontage


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## larry Strong

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> TYPHOON ( pictured in this thread) and AKULA are 2 different submarines
> 
> Thread title and the video article ( in the original post) are incorrect




What I am reading is that the Russians called the Project 941 (NATO "Typhoon") as the Акула (Akula), meaning shark, and the Project 971 (NATO "Akula")  Щука-Б (Shchuka-B), 'Shchuka' meaning pike. A little confusing for us landlubbers ;D  Massive boats, even have a swimming pool in them


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## Baz

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> TYPHOON ( pictured in this thread) and AKULA are 2 different submarines
> 
> Thread title and the video article ( in the original post) are incorrect




Actually, the thread title is correct.

Typhoon is the NATO reporting name for Project 941 Russian designation Akula, an SSBN.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/slbm/941.htm

Akula is the NATO reporting name for Project 971, an SSN.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/971.htm

The article (and thread title) is just giving both the Russian name and the NATO reporting name.

Although wikipedia is not always the best reference, it has a pretty good explanation:

"The NATO reporting name stems from the use of the word "typhoon" (тайфун) by Leonid Brezhnev in a 1974 speech while describing a new type of nuclear ballistic missile submarine."
"The Typhoon class was developed under Project 941 as the Russian Akula class (Акула), meaning shark. It is sometimes confused with other submarines, as Akula is the name NATO uses to designate the Russian Project 971 Shchuka-B (Щука-Б) class attack submarines."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon_class_submarine

and:

"Project 971 Щука-Б (Shchuka-B, 'Shchuka' meaning pike, NATO reporting name "Akula"), is a nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) first deployed by the Soviet Navy in 1986. The class is sometimes erroneously called the "Bars" class, after one of its members. Note that Akula ("shark") is the Soviet designation of the ballistic missile submarine class designated by NATO as the Typhoon class submarine. They are sometimes bitterly called "the Walker class," referring to John Anthony Walker, whose espionage data related to sonar detection was used to improve this submarine."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akula_class_submarine


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## aesop081

True enough. I'm just used to working with NATO reporting names.


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## Fishbone Jones

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> True enough. I'm just used to working with NATO reporting names.



Hey Flyboy, I just copied and pasted from a U.S. Defence site!!!! What do I know about this shit  Back in your plane bub, and get us real time pictures......if you're good enough ;D


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## Fishbone Jones

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

>



I would not be embarrassed on this beach! Even if I was wearing a speedo..........or a Crown Royal bag!!!! ;D


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## Spanky

Ummmmm......... ya sure.   ;D


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## Neill McKay

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> This has to be one of the best out of water bow shots of a Typhoon around. it's a chubby old bugger ...



I read somewhere that the pressure hull is essentially two Delta-class pressure hulls welded together, side-by-side.

Then again that may have been in something by Tom Clancy so best taken with a grain of salt.


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## larry Strong

No thats correct, and the bulge below the sail is another pressure hull for the control room. There are also 2 more pressure hulls for the torpedoes and steering gear.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/typhoon/

http://www.hazegray.org/features/russia/typhoon.htm


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## geo

looking at them makes me think of the WW2 japanese "aircraft carrier" subs 
The I-400 class submarine displaced 6,500 tons and was three times the size of ordinary submarines. It had a figure-eight hull shape for additional strength to handle the on-deck hangar for housing the three Seiran aircraft. In addition, it had four anti-aircraft guns and a large deck cannon as well as eight torpedo tubes from which they could fire the Long Lance - the largest, longest ranged and most deadly torpedo in use at the time.


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## larry Strong

geo said:
			
		

> looking at them makes me think of the WW2 Japanese "aircraft carrier" subs
> The I-400 class submarine displaced 6,500 tons and was three times the size of ordinary submarines. It had a figure-eight hull shape for additional strength to handle the on-deck hangar for housing the three Seiran aircraft. In addition, it had four antiaircraft guns and a large deck cannon as well as eight torpedo tubes from which they could fire the Long Lance - the largest, longest ranged and most deadly torpedo in use at the time.



I watched a documentary not that long ago that showed the scuttling of those subs after the war...I think it was Sea Hunter's or a show along those lines


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## NCRCrow

Impressive pics..wow..I never realized how big the Typhoon was!!

I can always tell an Akula by the tear drop tow arrayed on its rudder and sloping sail.

but yelling out "SNOOP TRAY" is even better!


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## tomahawk6

Here is a great shot showing how big the Typhoon really is.


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## Cloud Cover

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> Impressive pics..wow..I never realized how big the Typhoon was!!
> 
> I can always tell an Akula by the tear drop tow arrayed on its rudder and sloping sail.
> 
> but yelling out "SNOOP TRAY" is even better!



I didn't think Akula had a Snoop Tray set. It does, however have the Snoop Pair or Snoop Half tucked up in the Rim Hat.


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## NCRCrow

http://www8.janes.com/Search/documentView.do?docId=/content1/janesdata/yb/jfs/jfs_4619.htm@current&pageSelected=allJanes&keyword=akula&backPath=http://search.janes.com/Search&Prod_Name=JFS&

I stand corrected.


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## Springroll

Can't access that part of the Jane's site without being on a DND computer.
I tried and tried before when I was at home trying to prep for my briefing on the Oscar 2...really ticked me off.

I love the Typhoon, but the Oscar 2 is still my fave!


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## aesop081

Springroll said:
			
		

> Can't access that part of the Jane's site without being on a DND computer.



Sure you can. Your course staff should be able to give you the username and password available to all CF members who need to access Jane's for work.


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## Springroll

They did give it to us, but none of us were able to access the info from home. 
It only allowed us to log in from the fleet school computer with the login name and password.

Even tried on here last night when HFXCrow posted the link, but didn't work   

Doesn't matter now anyways, course is done!


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## Cloud Cover

I think you have to log into tha D.I.N. first, then copy and paste tha url into your browser, it will then ask you to authenticate> input authentication> then page will open.


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## NCRCrow

you should be able to access thru the WWW at home


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## Nfld Sapper

Works from home for me.

Go to www.janes.com then click login and try the user/password you got from the DIN/DWAN it should work.


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## CougarKing

Now why does Assad want more Russian weapons when his last network of Russian SAMs weren't even able to protect his nuke facility from an Israeli air strike last year?

And as for the KUZNETSOV, isn't she Russia's only carrier? Her sister ship the VARYAG is in China, IIRC. (www.varyagworld.com)

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=5706



> *Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria*
> 
> 21.08.2008
> The Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is ready to head from Murmansk towards the Mediterranean and the Syrian port of Tartus. The mission comes after Syrian President Bashar Assad said he is open for a Russian base in the area.
> 
> The Admiral Kuznetsov, part of the Northern Fleet and Russia’s only aircraft carrier, will head a Navy mission to the area. The mission will also include the missile cruiser Moskva and several submarines, Newsru.com reports.
> 
> *President Assad in meetings in Moscow this week expressed support to Russia’s intervention in South Ossetia and Georgia. He also expressed interest in the establishment of Russian missile air defence facilities on his land. *


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## Mike Baker

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> And as for the KUZNETSOV, isn't she Russia's only carrier?


Yup, she is.

And apparently Syria is willing to let the Russians have a base in the region. I'll look for the link where I read that.

-Deadpan


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## George Wallace

Deadpan said:
			
		

> Yup, she is.
> 
> And apparently Syria is willing to let the Russians have a base in the region. I'll look for the link where I read that.
> 
> -Deadpan



It was in the very first sentence of the original post.

So the Russians can call a coup on the Missile Shield Front......... They have permission to put one up, right at the 'launch site'.    >


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## aesop081

CD,

This is politicaly motivated on the part of both nations. Assad is not looking for more russian weapons but rather Moscow's support and influence. The Russians , i am sure, are more than happy to oblidge as they seek to once again be a major player. What better than to establish a base in the ME and stick close to the prime US area of interest.

As for being their only carrier, well, as stated in the article, yes it is. That in itself is not significant. Russian naval strategy does not rely on carrier battle groups like the US Navy does.


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## George Wallace

I'm sure that there is a little rejoicing going on.  Murmansk or the Mediterranean..........Cold Arctic winter or a warm Mediterranean winter............


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## Eye In The Sky

*The mission will also include the missile cruiser Moskva and several submarines, Newsru.com reports.*

Not much of an escort force....well compared to the US Navy.  Atleast on the surface-side?


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## aesop081

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Not much of an escort force....well compared to the US Navy.  Atleast on the surface-side?



Read my comment above. There was a time not so long ago, where the Soviet Navy did not care much for having a blue-water surface fleet. The Russian Navy continues that tradition.


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## Ex-Dragoon

Considering Russian carriers are cruisers in their own right, why do they need a sizeable escort force Eye?


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## Eye In The Sky

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Read my comment above. There was a time not so long ago, where the Soviet Navy did not care much for having a blue-water surface fleet. The Russian Navy continues that tradition.



I guess I am just surprised a nation would send their only carrier off to play with a surface escort of...1.  But I am not up on Russian Naval Strategy (or lack of)  8)

So this is typical of them.  As a non-SME, it would lead me to think they just don't have the assets to send. (for various reasons)


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## Eye In The Sky

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Considering Russian carriers are cruisers in their own right, why do they need a sizeable escort force Eye?



I don't know, thats why I am curious.  My knowledge on this is weak, so I am here to gleam info from you folks.


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## aesop081

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> it would lead me to think they just don't have the assets to send. (for various reasons)



I'm willing to be that it is the case but that it is not the driving factor here. My take is that this is purely political so it doesnt require a large deployment. The Kuznetsov is not that significant a weapon anyways.

The subs on the other hand.........


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## Eye In The Sky

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I'm willing to be that it is the case but that it is not the driving factor here. My take is that this is purely political so it doesnt require a large deployment. The Kuznetsov is not that significant a weapon anyways.
> 
> The subs on the other hand.........



Seen.  Regardless, they've been getting into the news alot as of late.  Cuba...Georgia...and now this.  Lots of peacocking going on it seems.  I guess Ivan wants to get into the headlines again.


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## aesop081

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Seen.  Regardless, they've been getting into the news alot as of late.  Cuba...Georgia...and now this.  Lots of peacocking going on it seems.  I guess Ivan wants to get into the headlines again.



Syria has always been Soviet / Russian client state anyways, so this is not all that surprising. It will also give Israel at least a moment of pause before striking there again.


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## SeaKingTacco

> The subs on the other hand.........



Oh come on now, Cdn Aviator.  EVERYONE knows that the Cold War is over and we don't ever have to worry about ASW again... :


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## aesop081

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Oh come on now, Cdn Aviator.  EVERYONE knows that the Cold War is over and we don't ever have to worry about ASW again... :



SKT you are correct. What do i, a lowely Sgt, know about naval tactics and submarines ? I dont know what i was thinking. I will STFU.

Thank you for the attitude adjustment.

 ;D


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## Ex-Dragoon

Didn't the Russians always have a naval station in Syria anyways?


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## tomahawk6

According to these articles this move by Putin has been in the works. The Russians may want an alternative to Odessa. As always the Russians seem to wear out their welcome.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3258131,00.html
Russia building naval base in Syria - report



> Russian magazine reports Moscow planning to turn Syrian port into permanent naval base; Russian Defense Ministry spokesperson denies report
> 
> Vera Yadidya Latest Update:  06.02.06, 23:42 / Israel News
> 
> Russian magazine Kommersant reported Friday that the Russian army is laying the groundwork for building the Syrian port of Tartus, in the north of the country.
> From Israel's point of view, we can expect a change in the rules of the game in the Mediterranean in general, and more specifically along the Syrian-Lebanon coasts: We haven't seen Soviet spy ships in the Mediterranean for quite some time. A permanent port in Syria would significantly facilitate its operations in our arena.
> 
> Under such circumstances, the Israeli navy's freedom of action would inevitably change – and we may assume that Israel would have a problem striking at land-based facilities during wartime. The large-scale Syrian-Russian arms deal also includes systems for protecting coasts and ports and land-to-sea missiles of the most advanced type. Now we understand why.
> 
> Russia may play role of 'responsible adult' .
> 
> Generally speaking, any possible Israeli military operation against Syria in the future would have to take the Russian presence into account. This presence would not necessarily be neutral. It is very reasonable to assume that Russia would take sides, at least diplomatically, in such a conflict.
> 
> But perhaps the situation is not so bleak. As a "responsible adult" residing in Syria, Russia can actually serve to restrain a violent conflict from erupting between Syria and Israel.
> 
> Even now we can see that the Russians refrained from selling the Syrians some problematic arms from our point of view, such as the missiles that followed the Scud missile generation or the Russian equivalent of the Patriot anti-aircraft missiles.
> 
> Russia maintained a base in the port since the days of the Soviet Union, the report said, adding that Moscow could be planning to turn the port into a naval base where ships withdrawn from Sevastopol in Ukraine can anchor.
> 
> Vladimir Zimin, a senior economic advisor at the Russian Embassy in Damascus, confirmed the plans to the magazine.
> 
> The move was said to be part of Russia's effort to boost its influence in the Middle East and safeguard Syria.
> 
> ”As an official at Russian naval headquarters explained, the creation in Tartus of a fully fledged naval base should help Russia redeploy the naval and supply ships leaving Sevastopol,” Kommersant said.
> 
> Russian military engineers will install an air defense system with S-300PMU-2 Favorit ballistic missiles at the port to protect Russian naval ships, the magazine reported.
> 
> ”For the first time since the Soviet Union’s collapse, Russia will create its own military base outside former Soviet borders, which will allow Moscow to conduct its own political game in the Middle East,” the newspaper added.
> 
> The Russian Defense Ministry categorically denied the report, Russian state news agency RIA Novosti reported.
> 
> "This is an absolutely false report that has no foundation whatsoever," Defense Ministry spokesperson Vyacheslav Sedov told Novosti.
> 
> Russia has also agreed to upgrade Syria's aerial defense systems, which Moscow supplied in 2005, and its fleet of 1,000 T-72 tanks.
> 
> Syria is also trying to convince Moscow to sell it two submarines and to upgrade its fleet of MiG 29 fighter jets, the magazine added.



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3434237,00.html



> Russia making a comeback
> 
> For first time since Iron Curtain's fall, Russia to set up naval base on Syrian soil
> 
> Alex Fishman Published:  08.06.07, 13:34 / Israel Opinion
> 
> Another phase in Russian President Vladimir Putin's imperialistic aspirations is being realized. It was just a matter of time before the Russian navy returned to the Mediterranean and resumed permanent command over the Syrian ports of Tartus and Latakia, which it abandoned with the fall of the Soviet Union.
> 
> A Russian flag on Syrian soil has significant strategic implications. Firstly, it challenges the US and the dominance of the Sixth Fleet stationed in the Mediterranean. Secondly, with its actual presence in Syria, Russia is announcing that it is actively participating in any process and conflict in the Middle East, that it has a stance of its own, and that it must be reckoned with.
> 
> Although the Russians have agreed to upgrade Syria's MIG-29 aircraft, they have still not concluded the sale of new MIG-31A aircraft. There are still quite a few items the Syrians have asked for that the Russians are still weighing.
> 
> Moreover, Russia may have a very central role is restraining the Iranian bear hug embracing Syria. In an age where there is talk of American withdrawal from Iraq, such a restraining Russian influence is doubly important in impeding the fundamentalist wave that is threatening to immerse the region.


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## George Wallace

Looking at Tartus, it appears that 2/3, or more, of the Port is now commercial shipping.  The same goes for Al Lathqiyah.


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## dimsum

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I'm willing to be that it is the case but that it is not the driving factor here. My take is that this is purely political so it doesnt require a large deployment. The Kuznetsov is not that significant a weapon anyways.
> 
> The subs on the other hand.........




Ah, but are they sending any carrier-based planes to go with the Kuznetsov...


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## aesop081

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Ah, but are they sending any carrier-based planes to go with the Kuznetsov...



So what if they are ?

(an aircraft carrier carrying aircraft ? Now why didnt i think of that  :  )


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## Ex-Dragoon

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Ah, but are they sending any carrier-based planes to go with the Kuznetsov...



Rather pointless for them to deploy that distance without doing any Air Wing Ops don't you think? Their Navy likes to get their training in as much as any other Navy.


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## TheHead

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Ah, but are they sending any carrier-based planes to go with the Kuznetsov...



If they do have a full load-out of Aircraft they can haul

12 × Sukhoi Su-33 fighters
5 × Sukhoi Su-25UTG/UBP aircraft
4 × Kamov Ka-27LD32 helicopters
18 × Kamov Ka-27PLO helicopters
2 × Kamov Ka-27S helicopters


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## Ex-Dragoon

Please tell me your not using Wikipedia for your air group numbers? :


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## tomahawk6

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqLe5ttSHo4

Naval-Technology numbers:Key here is capacity vs reality.

The ship has the capacity to support 16 Yakovlev Yak-41M (NATO code name Freestyle), 12 Sukhoi Su-27K (NATO codename Flanker) fixed-wing aircraft and a range of helicopters including four Kamov Ka-27-LD (NATO codename Helix), 18 Kamov Ka-27 PLO and two Ka-27-S.


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## TheHead

Sorry! I'll never quote wikipedia ever again.  :

Here hopefully a better source. The one I found at the bottom of the Wikipedia page.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kuznetsov/


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## aesop081

TheHead said:
			
		

> Sorry! I'll never quote wikipedia ever again.  :



Roll your eyes all you want but even you can understand why Wikki is a suspicious source at best.






> Here hopefully a better source. The one I found at the bottom of the Wikipedia page.
> 
> http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kuznetsov/



Those numbers hardly make the ship a serious military threat. A political one maybe......


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## Retired AF Guy

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqLe5ttSHo4
> 
> Naval-Technology numbers:Key here is capacity vs reality.
> 
> The ship has the capacity to support 16 Yakovlev Yak-41M (NATO code name Freestyle), 12 Sukhoi Su-27K (NATO codename Flanker) fixed-wing aircraft and a range of helicopters including four Kamov Ka-27-LD (NATO codename Helix), 18 Kamov Ka-27 PLO and two Ka-27-S.



A quick note, the Yak-141 Freestyle never entered production. That would mean that the carrier could carry more Flanker's. The Russians also built a carrier variant of the Mig-29, but I'm not sure what its status is.


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## Ex-Dragoon

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080918/world-news/fire-on-russian-warship-kills-2

Fire on Russian warship kills 2 
A fire on a Russian warship in the Pacific killed two sailors, the navy said on Thursday, the latest in a series of accidents that have raised doubts about the safety of Russia's fleet.

Russia's navy is under renewed scrutiny because the Kremlin is using it to project its newly assertive foreign policies, including by sending a nuclear-powered cruiser to the Caribbean later this year.

The Marshal Shaposhnikov anti-submarine destroyer limped into Vladivostok's harbour, home of Russia's Pacific fleet, on Thursday after the fire.

"One sailor serving under contract, and one conscripted sailor, who were in the section where the accident happened, died," the navy said in a statement. "The preliminary reason for the fire is a technical failure."

A series of accidents has dented the reputation of Russia's navy, which suffered years of neglect and under-funding after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The most high profile incident was the 2000 sinking of the Kursk nuclear submarine when all 117 crew died.

The United States has questioned the navy's reliability, with a State Department spokesman quipping that the nuclear-powered cruiser 'Peter the Great' may break down before it reaches the Caribbean for joint exercises with Venezuela in November.

The exercises are the Russian navy's first major manoeuvres on the United States' doorstep since the Cold War.

In July, Russia's navy announced plans for a major expansion, including the building of new aircraft carriers. The navy has only one aircraft carrier in service.

Navy officials said they suspected the fire on the Marshal Shaposhnikov had broken out in the engine room when an oil pipe ruptured during a naval exercise in the Sea of Japan.

Built in the 1980s, the Marshal Shaposhnikov carries anti-submarine munitions and helicopters.

DS addenum: Marshal Shaposhnikov is an Udaloy class.


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## FoverF

The original carrier variant of the Fulcrum, the MiG-29K (known as the 9.31 variant), was tested in prototype form, and conducted carrier trials, but never entered production. None are in Russian military service. 

India is currently receiving deliveries of an initial batch of 12 updated 9.31's, as well as 4 examples of a new two-seat variant (9.47). These are for eventual service on board the INS Vikramaditya (formerly _Admiral Gorshkov_). More examples are likely to follow, if Russia ever manages to deliver the carrier.


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## tomahawk6

The Russians seem intent on protecting Syria and inhibiting Israel.


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## tomahawk6

Here is a translation via babel fish.
http://www.lenta.ru/news/2008/11/08/submarine/


> On Saturday as a result emergencies on the atomic submarine of Pacific Ocean fleet perished more than 20 people. About this it reports RIA of the news with the reference for the statement of the assistant of [glavkoma] the Navy Igor [Dygalo]. As refined [Dygalo], emergency occurred during conducting of road tests on one of the nuclear-powered submarines: for the unknown reasons operated fire extinguishing system. According to [Dygalo], submarine itself with the emergency did not suffer, reactor compartment works in the normal mode, there is no radiation threat. All tests on submarine are stopped at the given moment, is made decision about its return to the point of temporary basing. The type of submarine and its name thus far does not communicate. However, at the end October it communicated that in the littoral began the road tests of the nuclear-powered submarine of " [Nerpa]" (project of 971 " Pike -*" , according to the classification of NATO " Akula"). Does deal the discussion precisely with this submarine thus far not known.*


*

http://www.rian.ru/incidents/20081108/154671713.html



			Moscow, 8 noys - RIA of the news. More than 20 people perished as a result incident on the nuclear-powered submarine of Pacific Ocean fleet, reported the assistant of [glavkoma] the Navy the captain of 1 ranks Igor [Dygalo]. According to him, today on November 8 on one of the nuclear-powered submarines of Pacific Ocean fleet with conducting of the road tests of as a result unsanctioned wear and tear of fire extinguishing system perished more than 20 people. Among the killed working ship-building enterprises and soldiers. Boat does not have damages. Reactor compartment works in the normal mode. Radiation background on the boat within the standard. [Glavkoma] the Navy, testing are stopped on the indication. Decision about the return of boat to the point of temporary basing is made, reported the assistant of [glavkoma] the Navy.
		
Click to expand...

*


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## tomahawk6

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7718156.stm

At least 20 people have died in an incident involving the failure of a fire extinguishing system on a Russian nuclear submarine, local media report. 

Russian Pacific Fleet spokesman Igor Dygalo said both sailors and shipyard workers died in the incident, which occurred during sea trials. 

He said the submarine itself had not been damaged and there had been no radiation leaks. 

Military prosecutors are investigating the incident. 

Injured evacuated 

The submarine, whose name and class have not been revealed, has been ordered to suspend sea trials and return to port in the far eastern Primorye territory, Capt Dygalo said. 

"I declare with full responsibility that the reactor compartment on the nuclear-powered submarine is working normally and the radiation background is normal," he said, quoted by Itar-Tass news agency. 

There were 208 people on board at the time, 81 of whom were servicemen. 

Twenty-one injured people have been evacuated from the submarine, sources at the fleet said. 

Reports say the incident occurred in the nose of the vessel. The nuclear reactor, which is in the stern, was not affected. 

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev is being kept fully informed about the incident, his press service said. 

Deputy Defence Minister Alexander Kolmakov and Navy Commander-in-Chief Vladimir Vysotsky are flying to the scene of the incident. 

Russia's worst submarine disaster happened in August 2000, when the nuclear-powered Kursk sank in the Barents Sea. All 118 people on board died.


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## karl28

Some how I just don't believe the Russians when they say there was no radiation leak .


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## tomahawk6

The fire suppression system evidently cuts off the air to a compartment.


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## Ex-Dragoon

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The fire suppression system evidently cuts off the air to a compartment.



Sounds almost like Halon...


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## Retired AF Guy

More info from  Reuters. The report says that the sub is the _Nerpa_, an *AKULA I*I attack sub that according to unconfirmed reports was to be "leased" to India. According to this  blog, the majority of dead belonged to the Amur shipbuilding company.


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## geo

From what I have heard on the radio, there wasn,t a fire BUT, the fire suppression system was set off - lomething like Halon - the gas ate up all the oxygen in the compartment - depriving everyone in the room of the air they need....


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## Retired AF Guy

geo said:
			
		

> From what I have heard on the radio, there wasn,t a fire BUT, the fire suppression system was set off - something like Halon - the gas ate up all the oxygen in the compartment - depriving everyone in the room of the air they need....



According to this report from the Int'l Herald Tribune the victims died*"after an accident with its fire-extinguishing system flooded two compartments with Freon gas."* The report also states that Sergei Markin, an official with Russia's top investigative agency, suggested that operating rules were violated, which may indicate human error was at fault.

With 208 people (two and a half times its normal complement) on board (81 crew and the rest civilians) there may not have been enough air breathing equipment on board for everything. I also wonder whether the civilians had been properly trained in the proper emergency drills.


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## Eye In The Sky

Regardless, its a bad way to go IMO.  

RIP to the ones who didn't make it thru this incident/accident.


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## geo

Oik... If you were just about ready to "lease" the boat.... would you feel comfortable hearing about the 20 dead, 20 injured....


----------



## Occam

For those who are curious, Halon 1301 (a fire suppressant) and Freon 13B1 (a refrigerant) are the same chemical.  The press probably doesn't realize this when they're stating that it was a Freon discharge which was to blame.


----------



## medicineman

This makes me so wanna go out and volunteer for sub service - on the bright side, most of ours aren't in the water though...

MM


----------



## aussiechangover

on 2 occasions i`ve been at sea on subs i`ve seen the halon system mailfunction and dump everywhere. nothing like a mad scramble the the emergency breathing system after. it`s sad to see that this is the 2nd accident in only recent years with the kursk being the other, and after this we were told to surface and communicate home so they know were all ok after this hit the australian media and people began to freek out.



			
				medicineman said:
			
		

> This makes me so wanna go out and volunteer for sub service - on the bright side, most of ours aren't in the water though...
> 
> MM


it`s funny you  mention that as one of the times the halon failed was out of the water when a contractor did something he wasn`t supposed to


----------



## medicineman

Well, by the time my training is done, my boat MIGHT be out of dry dock, so might not have to worry too much.  I'd love to get posted to the Chicoutimi though - I doubt she'll ever see the deep (or shallow) blue again.

MM


----------



## Retired AF Guy

aussiechangover said:
			
		

> on 2 occasions i`ve been at sea on subs i`ve seen the halon system mailfunction and dump everywhere. nothing like a mad scramble the the emergency breathing system after. it`s sad to see that this is the 2nd accident in only recent years with the kursk being the other, and after this we were told to surface and communicate home so they know were all ok after this hit the australian media and people began to freek out.
> it`s funny you  mention *that as one of the times the halon failed was out of the water when a contractor did something he wasn`t supposed to*



Well, guess what! Sub tragedy blamed on sailor’s error. Apparently, something similar happened here.

More info on the accident here: Lessons from the Nerpa sub accident and here: Freon killed as crew slept.


----------



## CougarKing

I wonder if these means they will eventually return to Russia, but via their Vladiovostok base of their Pacific Fleet instead of their other homeports at Sevastopol, etc.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94REPNO1&show_article=1



> MOSCOW (AP) - *A Russian warship will sail through the Panama Canal this week for the first time since World War II, the navy announced Wednesday, pushing ahead with a symbolic projection of Moscow's power in a traditional U.S. zone of influence.
> 
> The destroyer Admiral Chabanenko will arrive Friday at a former U.S. naval base in Panama's Pacific port of Balboa for a six-day visit after carrying out joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan navy in the Caribbean Sea, navy spokesman Capt. Igor Dygalo said in a telephone interview. *
> 
> The Panama Canal has long been a symbol of U.S. clout in Latin America, and Dygalo said no Soviet or Russian military ship has sailed through it since World War II. The wartime alliance between the U.S. and the Soviet Union swiftly gave way to the mistrust, military buildups and proxy conflicts of the Cold War.
> 
> In a throwback to those times, the Russian navy statement announcing the plans referred to the base the Admiral Chabanenko will visit as Rodman naval base—its name when it was a U.S. base many years ago.
> 
> *Rodman was the hub for all U.S. naval activities in South America and supported fleet units transiting the 50-mile (80-kilometer) canal. But control of the facility shifted to Panama a decade ago, and it is now called the Balboa naval base.
> 
> Monday's joint maneuvers with Venezuela, which brought the Admiral Chabanenko and the nuclear-powered missile cruiser Peter the Great across the Atlantic along with two support ships, were widely seen as a show of Kremlin anger over the U.S. use of warships to deliver aid to Georgia after its August war with Russia.*
> 
> Russian warships tailed U.S. ships in the Black Sea, where Russia borders Georgia, on that mission.
> 
> The Russian squadron's voyage to Venezuela was Russia's first such deployment to the Western Hemisphere since the Cold War era, aimed to showcase the Kremlin's global reach and reassert its claim to great-power status. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is a staunch U.S. foe.
> 
> The voyage coincided with a trip to Latin America late last month by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, who visited four nations in what he acknowledged was an effort to raise Moscow's profile in a region he said it has long neglected.
> 
> U.S. officials have mocked the Russian show of force, saying that the Russian navy is a shadow of Moscow's Soviet-era fleet and suggesting that the U.S. retains far more influence in the region than Russia.
> 
> "Are they accompanied by tugboats this time?" U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack joked to reporters in Washington last week ahead of the Russian ships' arrival off Venezuela.
> 
> Dygalo would not say where the Peter the Great, which led the Russian squadron, would be located while the destroyer visits the Panama base.


----------



## Blackadder1916

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> I wonder if these means they will eventually return to Russia, but via their Vladiovostok base of their Pacific Fleet instead of their other homeports at Sevastopol, etc.



No, they are headed for the Indian Ocean and then probably back to their "Northern Fleet" homeports, most likely showing the flag at port visits along the way.

Russian naval task force to leave for Indian Ocean on Dec. 9
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081127/118569487.html


> 13:58  27/ 11/ 2008
> 
> VLADIVOSTOK, November 27 (RIA Novosti) - A task force from Russia's Pacific Fleet will leave its main base in Vladivostok on December 9 to take part in joint naval drills with the Indian navy in the Indian Ocean, a fleet official said on Thursday.
> 
> According to the official, the task force will comprise the Admiral Vinogradov, an Udaloy class missile destroyer, a tugboat, and two tankers.
> 
> "The task force will participate in the joint naval exercises INDRA-2009 with the Indian navy in January," the source said.
> 
> INDRA is a biennial Russian-Indian exercise aimed at practicing cooperation in enforcing maritime law and countering piracy, terrorism, and drug smuggling. INDRA-2009 is the fourth such exercise since 2003.
> 
> "The exercises will involve a number of artillery and missile live-firing drills," the official said.
> 
> *The task force will also conduct joint exercises with a task force from Russia's Northern Fleet, led by the Pyotr Veliky nuclear-powered missile cruiser, which will arrive in the Indian Ocean after joint drills with the Venezuelan Navy scheduled for December 1. *
> 
> Following the exercises, the Russian warships will pay visits to several ports in Indonesia and China.
> 
> Vice Admiral Konstantin Sidenko, commander of the Pacific Fleet, earlier said that Russian warships from the fleet would make several long-range training sorties in the South Pacific and Indian oceans in 2009, and participate in a number of exercises involving live-firing drills.
> 
> Russia announced last year that its navy had resumed and would build up a constant presence in different regions of the world's oceans.


----------



## CougarKing

Those must have been some really heavily armed "border patrol" ships.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20090219/120221660.html



> BEIJING, February 19 (RIA Novosti) - Beijing urged Russia on Thursday to conduct a probe into the sinking of a Chinese cargo ship off Russia's Pacific Coast over the weekend that killed eight crewmembers, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said.
> 
> " The Foreign Ministry and the Chinese consulate in Russia have already respectively raised representations to the Russian Embassy in China...urging the Russian side to spare no effort to help search for the missing crew members and quickly find out the causes of the incident," Jiang Yu was quoted by Xinhua as saying during a regular press conference.
> 
> *The New Star, owned by a Hong Kong based company, sank in the Sea of Japan 80 kilometers (50 miles) from the port of Nakhodka in the Primorye Territory during a storm on Sunday.
> 
> Chinese media reported that the Sierra Leone-flagged New Star sank as a result of damage sustained, when the ship was fired upon by Russian border guards after the vessel left Nakhodka and crossed the Russian border without prior permission from the authorities.
> 
> The ship had tried to deliver a consignment of rice to a Russian company who refused to accept the goods claiming it was "poor-quality" produce.
> 
> Two Russian border guard ships were sent to stop the vessel, but the captain ignored their orders.
> 
> Russia subsequently informed China, Japan and South Korea as well as Russian Foreign Ministry representatives in Vladivostok about the situation surrounding the sinking.
> 
> The border guards fired warning shots, but when the vessel still refused to stop more direct shots were fired. According to video footage shown by Internet media in Vladivostok, Russian border guards fired a total of 515 shots at the vessel's bow. When this had no effect, they requested permission to open fire on the stern. *
> 
> The Chinese ship owners have accused Russia of breaching international maritime law. The owners said in a letter that Russia's actions were not only "an awful violation of international law but also a cruel violation of human rights."
> 
> The owners also demanded that Russia provide compensation for the incident and requested that a joint Russian-Chinese government group be set up to investigate the sinking of the New Star.
> 
> *The ship issued a distress signal when the vessel started to take on water during the storm on Sunday, and 16 crew members, all of them Indonesian or Chinese nationals, got into two lifeboats. Half of them were picked up by a Russian vessel, but an attempt to save the other eight sailors failed when they were washed out to sea.
> 
> A small boat was discovered on Tuesday in the area where the ship sunk, but there was no one on board. The search operation launched by Russia continued on Thursday.
> 
> An investigation into the incident has been launched by prosecutors in Russia's Far East.*


----------



## aesop081

The Russian Interior Ministry has Krivak IIIs in its inventory.


----------



## CougarKing

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6be_1234970614

In the Mandarin news report above that has some footage of the aftermath of the confrontation, the reporter refers to the ship as "XIN XING" or the ship's name- NEW STAR. The character subtitles are also in simplified characters so this report is from the mainland.


----------



## CougarKing

So does this mean the deal with the Russians is off?



> *India to Construct Own Aircraft Carrier: Navy*
> By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
> Published: 26 Feb 11:19 EST (16:19 GMT)
> 
> NEW DELHI - *India has started building its own aircraft carrier, its navy announced Feb. 26, amid a protracted dispute with Russia over the cost of a Soviet-era carrier.*
> 
> The navy said the keel-laying ceremony for the vessel would be held Feb. 28, but production of components for the 858-foot ship had already begun.
> 
> *"With this project, India joins the select club of 40,000-ton aircraft carrier  designers and builders," the navy said in a statement.*
> 
> The carrier will be armed with surface-to-air missiles, latest radar and an array of other combat systems from Israel, France and Russia, naval officials said.
> 
> "This is the most prestigious project that the Indian navy has taken up in-house so far," the navy said.
> 
> India currently has only one operational carrier - the INS Viraat - after scrapping its first, INS Vikrant, in 1997 after more than 35 years of service.
> 
> Viraat is scheduled to be phased out soon.
> 
> India has been involved in a long-running wrangle with Moscow over a 2004 deal to buy a refurbished Soviet-era carrier, the Admiral Gorshkov.
> 
> The original price for the refit was $970 million, but Russia later demanded an additional $1.2 billion.
> 
> The sides eventually settled for an extra $900 million, but the carrier has yet to be delivered, and the latest reports suggest the Russian export firm Rosoboronexport wanted to increase the price tag again.
> 
> The 137-ship Indian navy is in expansion mode and has warships from the U.S. navy and submarines from France.


----------



## tomahawk6

Looks like it.


----------



## tomahawk6

Indian blogger has some images of the new carrier.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/03/photos-keel-laying-ceremony-of.html


----------



## geo

If the Russian carrier is off... does that mean the MIGs that are to fly from it/them off too ?


----------



## tomahawk6

The Russians will scramble to keep from losing one of their biggest clients to western aircraft. Worst case the Indians can buy the Rafale.


----------



## Cdn Blackshirt

Has the United States authorized sale of F-35's to India?

My recollection was that they had previously balked at that, but had offered Superhornet and latest generation of F-16 (which in this case, would not be applicable) with one of the biggest hurdles being that India was demanding some technology transfer and domestic production.


Matthew.


----------



## tomahawk6

The US hasnt authorized the sale of the F-35 to India. However, Lockheed had offered at one time the F-35 if India bought F-16's at the same price. While we are definitely getting closer to India I dont see us sharing technology with them that would put their aerospace industry in a competitive position. If we wont sell the F-22 to our closest friends I just dont think the F-35 will go to India,but who knows what the future holds ?


----------



## Rahul

Lockheed offering the F-35 to India can have some really complex repercussions. India is already in a JV with Russia for the Fifth generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) that -may- be comparable to the F-35. Yes, while the F-35 has a significant developmental headstart, its induction into the Indian Airforce would come at the same time as the FGFA, if ever. Also, the F-35 has some restrictions on the Transfer of Technology on the American side and mandatory domestic production clauses on the Indian side that may make it more unattractive. 
       
The main market in India that I see for the F-35 would be the navy. India has planned to have 3 aircraft carriers and the F-35 might be purchased for them. But here too the F-35 would face competition from the naval LCA and the MiG 29Ks specially being made for the Indian navy.
    But then again, no one knows what the future holds. Afterall, the current Indian-US relation were inconcieveable only a decade ago. 

With regards to the Russian demands for more money, I think India has no choice but to give in. There will be much hand wringing and head shaking in India but the Russians do have the upper hand. They know India will soon be without a carrier and the "Gorshkov" is essential to the Indian naval plans. 

My CAD $ .02


----------



## The_Dictat

I remember reading somewhere (please don't ask me for a source I can't recall) that Russia might want to raise the costs of putting Gorshkov back to sea so high that India might cancel the contract.  Then the Russian Navy could take the carrier back for cheap money.

As a counter argument, the Russian Navy is planning to name the Project 22350 class frigate after Admiral Gorshkov.  Therefore if the Russian Navy is making a ploy to get the carrier back for cheap then it may have to rename it.

Cheers


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

The Russians rename ships as often as most people change underwear so I would not expect the name of the first Project 22350 frigate to be carved in stone.


----------



## Greymatters

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> The Russians rename ships as often as most people change underwear...



A very annoying habit...


----------



## TimBit

Greymatters said:
			
		

> A very annoying habit...



It's to keep the Int guys on their toes... why else?


----------



## Spencer100

Greymatters said:
			
		

> A very annoying habit...



...clean underware is annoying..... ;D


----------



## CougarKing

Alright, considering that Russia has been reportedly exporting warships like those _Sovremenny_ class destroyers and those _Kilo_ class submarines for China in recent years, then how much truth is there to this report?



> Russian Navy facing 'irreversible collapse'
> 
> The Russian Navy is currently on the verge of 'irreversible collapse', according to a recent analysis published by the authoritative Moscow-based weekly - the Independent Military Review . The report, entitled 'BMF RF [Naval Military Fleet of the Russian Federation] on Foreign Warships', says the main cause for the 'collapse' is the state of the Russian shipbuilding industry, which is "incapable of producing warships in either the quantity or at the level of quality that their navy customer requires" for the future...
> 
> [first posted to http://jdw.janes.com - 10 July 2009]


----------



## George Wallace

They may be looking at other nations besides China to open up markets; nations that want better quality products.  Unable to provide the quality, they are not finding the customers.  Some customers, like China, North Korea, etc. place less value on their personnel as do Western nations and some of the emerging nations.  They may have higher "Safety" concerns for their crews than previous Communist customers did and still do.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Alright, considering that Russia has been reportedly exporting warships like those _Sovremenny_ class destroyers and those _Kilo_ class submarines for China in recent years, then how much truth is there to this report?



Did you not post an article on 18 July that the Russians cut 2 frigate programs....


----------



## CougarKing

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Did you not post an article on 18 July that the Russians cut 2 frigate programs....



Perhaps that thread should be merged with this then?

Before I read this article, I just wrongly inferred that cutting those 2 programs were not indicative of the overall state of their shipbuilding industry.


----------



## CougarKing

At least no one was hurt.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090724/oddities/russia_military_accident_offbeat



> *Russian warship accidently fires on apartment block *
> 
> Fri Jul 24, 12:00 PM
> 
> 
> VLADIVOSTOK, Russia (AFP) - A Russian warship preparing for a holiday celebration accidentally fired a dummy artillery shell into the courtyard of an apartment building here on Friday, officials said.
> 
> Nobody was hurt but the shell's impact broke windows and left a small crater outside the nine-storey apartment building in Vladivostok, a port city on Russia's Pacific Ocean coast close to China and Japan.
> 
> 
> "There were no explosives in the dummy shell," Roman Martov, a spokesman for Russia's Vladivostok-based Pacific Fleet, told AFP.
> 
> 
> "The reasons why the rocket-assisted projectile flew a greater distance than it had been assigned are unknown," he added.
> 
> 
> *Local police said in a statement that the impact shattered the windows of several apartments and scattered fragments of rock and glass on nearby cars, but added that there were no injuries.
> 
> 
> The warship that fired the shell was taking part in rehearsals for Sunday's planned celebrations of the annual Navy Day holiday, which traditionally include a ceremonial procession of warships and mock naval battles.*


----------



## Jammer

The rocket assisted projectile????
...flew a greater distance than assigned???
I hate it when they do that!!!!


----------



## my72jeep

We did something like this in the 90's in Victoria with a chaff rocket. through a guy's garage roof. he heard the crash opened the door and poof tinsel everywhere.


----------



## Occam

my72jeep said:
			
		

> We did something like this in the 90's in Victoria with a chaff rocket. through a guy's garage roof. he heard the crash opened the door and poof tinsel everywhere.



I think that story got embellished a little over the years.  It was an inert practice round.

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/18.40.html#subj1


----------



## my72jeep

I was at Work Point at the time it was a Chaff round.


----------



## Michael OLeary

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002jth



> In August 1996, the Navy accidentally launched a 20-kilogram, 1.5-metre long chaff missile from HMCS Regina into the neighbouring community of View Royal.
> 
> The missile travelled almost three kilometres before crashing through a garage roof behind Pete's Tent and Awning, located on the main street in View Royal.
> 
> There were no injuries, but the missile, which was not loaded with explosives, embedded itself into the ground after hitting the garage.


----------



## my72jeep

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002jth


Yes that was the one.


----------



## Occam

my72jeep said:
			
		

> I was at Work Point at the time it was a Chaff round.



Yes, an inert practice chaff round.  Inert practice rounds don't go "Poof" and eject tin foil, was my point.


----------



## hugh19

Besides they don't even have tinfoil in them.  :


----------



## my72jeep

I was there it was a chaff round and the guys shop was full of little pices of tin foil like stuff.


----------



## Hawk

Has anyone heard about an incident on the West Coast where a Canadian ship accidentally fired on Port Angeles and took out a cow, shopping cart and clothes line of laundry? Our PO on course told us about it in the late 1960s and I've never been able to find proof. Sounds like an urban legend to me.

Does anyone else know about this tale?


Hawk


----------



## hugh19

I am one of the people who gets to playwith those things and it was a practice inert round. Hence a dummy, I don't know whatyou saw but it was not chaff.


----------



## my72jeep

I remember it was a remuster army guy that loaded the live chaff missile by accident thinking it was a dummy. something about the color was different in navy for dummy rounds or he was color blind. but what ever enough of this post.


----------



## Occam

You have regular chaff rounds, which have propellant and explosive.  You have blue inert practice rounds, which have only propellant.  Finally, you have the green inert test set, which contains no propellant or explosives and merely tests the firing circuits.

He loaded blue instead of green.


----------



## CougarKing

The latest update in our "Red Bear resurgent" series.   :blotto:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/world/05patrol.html?_r=2



> *Russian Subs Patrolling Off East Coast of U.S.*
> MARK MAZZETTI and THOM SHANKER
> Published: August 4, 2009
> WASHINGTON — A pair of nuclear-powered Russian attack submarines has been patrolling off the eastern seaboard of the United States in recent days, a rare mission that has raised concerns inside the Pentagon and intelligence agencies about a more assertive stance by the Russian military.
> 
> The episode has echoes of the cold war era, when the United States and the Soviet Union regularly parked submarines off each other’s coasts to steal military secrets, track the movements of their underwater fleets — and be poised for war.
> 
> But the collapse of the Soviet Union all but eliminated the ability of the Russian Navy to operate far from home ports, making the current submarine patrols thousands of miles from Russia more surprising for military officials and defense policy experts.
> 
> “I don’t think they’ve put two first-line nuclear subs off the U.S. coast in about 15 years,” said Norman Polmar, a naval historian and submarine warfare expert.
> 
> The submarines are of the Akula class, a counterpart to the Los Angeles class attack subs of the United States Navy, and not one of the larger submarines that can launch intercontinental nuclear missiles.
> 
> According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The location of the second remained unclear. One senior official said the second submarine traveled south in recent days toward Cuba, while another senior official with access to reports on the surveillance mission said it had sailed away in a northerly direction.
> 
> The Pentagon and intelligence officials spoke anonymously to describe the effort to track the Russian submarines, which has not been publicly announced.
> 
> The submarine patrols come as Moscow tries to shake off the embarrassment of the latest failed test of the Bulava missile, a long-range weapon that was test fired from a submarine in the Arctic on July 15. The failed missile test was the sixth since 2005, and some experts see Russia’s assertiveness elsewhere as a gambit by the military to prove its continued relevance.  “It’s the military trying to demonstrate that they are still a player in Russian political and economic matters,” Mr. Polmar said.
> 
> One of the submarines is the newer Akula II, officials said, which is quieter than the older variant and the most advanced in the Russian fleet. The Akula is capable of carrying torpedoes for attacking other submarines and surface vessels as well as missiles for striking targets on land and at sea.
> 
> Defense Department officials declined to speculate on which weapons might be aboard the two submarines.
> 
> While the submarines have not taken any provocative action beyond their presence outside territorial waters of the United States, officials expressed wariness over the Kremlin’s motivation for ordering such an unusual mission.
> 
> “Anytime the Russian Navy does something so out of the ordinary it is cause for worry,” said a senior Defense Department official who has been monitoring reports on the submarines’ activities.
> 
> The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines.
> 
> “We’ve known where they were, and we’re not concerned about our ability to track the subs,” the official added. “We’re concerned just because they are there.”
> 
> Once among the world’s most powerful forces, the Russian Navy now has very few ships regularly deployed on the open seas. Moscow has contributed warships to the international armada searching for Somali pirates.
> 
> Another example of how Russia’s navy has sought to display global reach came last year when a flotilla of warships sailed for exercises with Venezuela.
> 
> The submarine patrols off the East Coast follow Russia’s resumption last year of bomber runs off the coast of Alaska. Russia began sending Tu-95 Bear bombers through international airspace near Alaska in what was interpreted as a signal of the Kremlin’s unhappiness over decisions by the United States and Europe to recognize Kosovo’s independence, in defiance of Russia.


----------



## vonGarvin

Are we back to this:


----------



## OldSolduer

If Russian subs are parked off the US Coast.....where are the US Subs?

Just a whacky thought.....


----------



## tomahawk6

I am sure the DSU is now on alert to perform rescue duties as required. ;D


----------



## Bane

Almost wet myself T6. iper:


----------



## tomahawk6

8)


----------



## GAP

> According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The location of the second remained unclear. One senior official said the second submarine traveled south in recent days toward Cuba, while another senior official with access to reports on the surveillance mission said it had sailed away in a northerly direction.



Our subs will catch them....!!!


----------



## Navy_Blue

Kinda funny the Yanks are moving a lot of there gear west to counter the Chiness.  Now the Russians want to play again.


----------



## Larkvall

Here is a video on this story....

If their subs haven't been patrolling off the US then where have they been? Were they mothballed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8AUF6B6_jg


----------



## Bird_Gunner45

Subs patrolling again, bombers flying over the Arctic... I'm glad we had all those visionaries that were calling for the disbandment of the Air Defence, Navy, etc.


----------



## Shec

Russian Subs?  Time to re-screen appropriate Cold War movie classics :

The Bedord Incident:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058962/

The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060921/

Russian paras to drop on the North Pole?

Ice Station Zebra:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063121/

and who could forget the highly plausible,
Red Dawn:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/

 :warstory:


----------



## vonGarvin

Shec said:
			
		

> The *Bedford * Incident:
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058962/


There, fixed it for you.  Great movie, and a great book as well.


----------



## OldSolduer

The Hunt for Red October.

Sean Connery stole the show.


----------



## Shec

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> There, fixed it for you.  Great movie, and a great book as well.



Thanks Bud


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

OldSoldier said:
			
		

> If Russian subs are parked off the US Coast.....where are the US Subs?
> 
> Just a whacky thought.....



Undoubtably shadowing them like they are suppose to....


----------



## FormerHorseGuard

From the CTV News website
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090811/sub_coast_090811/20090811?hub=Canada

I see the skills of our airmen and older equipment is being tested even before the planned exercise in the North. I think it is time for Canada to start a major purchase plan for new sub chasers both ships and aircraft. The government should stop talking about it and planning for it in 20 years but do something now.  Letting any country  come that  close to our coast lines  and into our Northern  waters is going hurt our claims
Just my  thoughts


----------



## CougarKing

There is a related, similar topic thread already below, although that one focuses more on those off the US East Coast rather than Canada:

"Russian subs back on patrol off US East Coast" thread of army.ca


----------



## Larkvall

A Russia Today story on the Russian subs off Canadian waters. Apparently the Air Force is tracking them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OwMQDH_8X8


----------



## BlueJingo

For some strange reason i get a *"Hunt for Red October"* quote coming on...


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Jingo said:
			
		

> For some strange reason i get a *"Hunt for Red October"* quote coming on...



Why? There were no quotes a few years ago when they were operating off our coasts then and that never made the news as it was the status quo.


----------



## BlueJingo

HFRO: Captain Ramius: We will pass through the American patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest city, and listen to their rock and roll... while we conduct missile drills. _*I love that movie*_

Why no quote a few years ago... hmm...Back then I was just getting the hang of this forum stuff... but I would of made light of the same thing then too!  

Sorry to say it but when I think of Russian Nuclear Subs off our East Coast I just think of that movie... I understand that in this case it's _probably_ just a war game or drill or something...

Fm CBC: "Deputy chief of staff for the Russian armed forces, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovistsyn, said the unannounced sub movements are "part of a normal process" and are traveling within recognized international regulations. There is no need for "hysteria" about their presence..."

There is no hysteria here!


----------



## Greymatters

Its hard for regular people to know whats true when the news clip gives both true and false information at the same time - Russian subs did not stop making visits to North America after 1992, and this activity has been reported in newspapers before...


----------



## aesop081

Norway had 88 encounters with Russian submarines in 2007.


----------



## blacktriangle

The article called them "attack submarines" and showed a picture of an akula, so are most of the subs being encountered SSN's vice SSBNs?


----------



## Greymatters

popnfresh said:
			
		

> The article called them "attack submarines" and showed a picture of an akula, so are most of the subs being encountered SSN's vice SSBNs?



Looking at the missile types carried, and their range, will give you an idea of why one type might be found close to North American shores while another type will not ...


----------



## blacktriangle

Ah, seen. Why risk coming closer with the boomers when they can operate from arctic waters closer to home...makes sense. Thanks for the head shake.


----------



## Greymatters

Once you point out what to look for, most people can figure out things like this for themselves...


----------



## CougarKing

I doubt this has been posted before:



> Over the last two decades, the oceanic navy that Russia inherited from the Soviet Union has declined in size and quality. There were repeated calls from naval officers over the last decade for new construction and a revival of the navy. On Navy Day July 27, 2008 the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky spoke of a revival of Russian naval power over the next decade and declared that the navy would add six carrier battle groups to its complement of warships. Construction of these ships, he said, would begin in 2012 with three of the carriers assigned to the Northern Fleet and the other three to the Pacific Fleet. *This month, after reviewing the naval activities of the Baltic, Northern and Black Sea Fleets during the exercise Zapad 2009, President Dmitry Medvedev repeated the call for a revival of Russian naval power and promised new acquisitions over the next decade.* Medvedev noted that naval appropriations had not suffered major cuts during the current economic crisis. He stated: “I am convinced that over the next decade we can re-establish our navy at the level necessary to our state. . . . We need a powerful fleet” (Flag Rodiny, October 2).
> 
> Medvedev did not speak of six carrier task forces, and recent developments seem to indicate some reordering of naval priorities. These changes do not preclude the construction of carriers over the next decade, but suggest greater attention to naval balance. Yet, balance in the Russian case refers to the ability of each fleet to perform missions as the maritime flank of the Russian army in the absence of support from other naval forces, because of the ease of isolation of each naval theater in time of war.Since the Russian navy played an active supporting role in the Russia-Georgia War in August 2008, greater attention has been devoted to the Black Sea Fleet and its future. During that conflict the Black Sea Fleet landed troops in Abkhazia and blockaded the Georgian ports of Poti and Batumi. On August 10, while approaching the Russian amphibious convoy off the Abkhazian port of Ochamchira, a Georgian flotilla of small craft were attacked by the missile corvette Mirazh and one of the craft was sunk. Thereupon, the Georgian vessels sailed back to Poti where two were sunk in their docks, and one towed to sea and sunk without resistance by their crews. The Black Sea Fleet, led by the cruiser Moskva, had sailed from Sevastopol, which led to increased tension between Russia and Ukraine, since the latter hosts the Russian fleet at Sevastopol under a lease agreement that extends to 2017. Recently, when Georgian warships intercepted commercial vessels sailing to Abkhazian ports, the Russian government announced that in the future the Black Sea Fleet and the Russian Coast Guard will protect such shipping from interference.
> 
> *Much attention has been devoted to the fate of the Russian base at Sevastopol after 2017, since the loss of the base would erode Russia’s capacity to command the Black Sea.* This view, however, does not take into account the fact that Sevastopol is an operating base and not a major ship building facility. Since the eighteenth century, the capital ships of the Black Sea Fleet have been built at Nikolaev (Mykolaiv in Ukrainian). However, neither Russia nor Ukraine have made use of the yards for new construction, and both fleets are aging and in need of refits for the vessels in service. Nikolaev does have some modest commercial construction, but it has lost its place as the home of major naval shipyards. For Russia, this fact has meant the prospect of a steady decline of Russian naval power in a theater of ongoing military operations. The decline in both the Ukrainian and Russian Black Sea Fleets has shifted the naval balance. Among the Black Sea littoral states, only Turkey has engaged in significant naval modernization over the last decade, and that seems to have been driven by naval competition with Greece.
> 
> Two recent developments suggest that the Russian government has begun to address this problem of decline in the wake of the Russia-Georgia War. First, on September 1 Medvedev issued a decree creating the post of Deputy Commander for Naval Affairs in the North Caucasus Military District and subordinating the operations of the Black Sea Fleet and the Caspian Flotilla to the military district commander (Nezavisimoe Voennoe Obozrenie, September 11-17). This will ensure the unity of command for army, air and naval forces in this theater of military operations and re-emphasize what was a traditional function of Russian naval forces in this theater as an instrument of presence and intervention on the maritime flanks of Russian armies in the Caucasus. This emerged in the long wars against the mountaineers in the nineteenth century. During World War I the Russian navy developed specialized shallow-draught landing craft to conduct amphibious operations against the eastern Black Sea coasts of Anatolia. The modern version of the frigate, gunboat, or shallow-draught landing craft for such power projection is the amphibious assault ship.
> 
> Another manifestation of strategic change with regard to the Black Sea Fleet is linked to Moscow’s plan to purchase from France one helicopter-amphibious assault ship of the Mistral class, with an option to build three under license in Russian shipyards. The procurement of the Mistral was discussed in the Russian press as an affront to its own shipyards. Army-General Nikolai Makarov, the Chief of the General Staff, justified the decision based on the advanced characteristics of the French ship, which can carry transport and attack helicopters, with space for 450 troops, capable of launching six landing craft (conventional and air-cushion), and in the absence of the capacity to build such ships in Russian shipyards. “No country in the world can do everything at a high qualitative level,” he noted (Rossiyskaya Gazeta, September 23).
> 
> *Some critics have attacked the purchase as a commitment to future global power projection, but in this case, it would appear that Russia's Mistral will solve two immediate problems: procurement of a key class of ship for the Black Sea Fleet and enhanced power projection capabilities in the region.*
> 
> http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_...ash=6aa1ebf4b9


----------



## CougarKing

Wait a minute...so the ice is THAT thick that even a heavy icebreaker like this can't break free?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091117/ap_on_bi_ge/aa_antarctic_cruise_ship



> A Russian icebreaker carrying over 100 tourists, scientists and journalists on a cruise around Antarctica was struggling to free itself from sea ice but was not in any danger, a shipping company said Tuesday.
> 
> The Captain Khlebnikov icebreaker is about 5 miles (8 kilometers) from clear water near Snow Hill Island in the Weddell Sea, German Kuzin of the Fareastern Shipping Company told Russia's Vesti 24 television. He said neither the ship nor the passengers faced any risks.
> 
> The ship was trying to move slowly through the ice but the winds were too light to break up the ice pack, he said. An Argentine official said the ice would delay the ship's return by three to six days.
> 
> (...)


----------



## CougarKing

A related article:



> Retired admiral says Russia losing its navy
> 
> By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV (AP) – 2 days ago
> 
> MOSCOW — Russia's once-mighty navy faces further dramatic decline after 2015, when most Soviet-built ships will have to be mothballed, a retired admiral was quoted as saying Friday.
> 
> The warning follows comments by Russian officials they were planning to buy a French amphibious assault warship able to carry at least a dozen helicopters or to land forces.
> 
> Russia currently has no big ship with the power to anchor off coast and deploy troops onto land. With the likely decommissioning of other aging warships, distant deployments would be impossible, Retired Adm. Vyacheslav Popov said in remarks carried by RIA Novosti news agency.
> 
> "If things remain as they are, we will have to mothball most ocean warships by 2015," Popov was quoted as saying. "That will sharply reduce the navy's capability," which he said was now five to six times less than Britain's or France's, and 20-30 times smaller than the U.S. Navy's.
> Popov and other retired military officers have described the Russian navy as being in a pitiful state — a sharp contrast to the Kremlin's attempts to flex military muscle abroad.
> 
> Russia has sent warships to patrol pirate-infested waters off Somalia, and in 2008 dispatched a navy squadron to the Caribbean for joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan navy and for several port calls.
> 
> But Popov, a former Northern Fleet chief who is now a member of parliament's upper house, warned that the navy would only be capable of acting near Russian shores after 2015.
> 
> Only a handful of big surface ships, such as missile cruisers and destroyers, remain seaworthy, after Russia failed to commission new ships and properly maintain Soviet-built ones amid the post-Soviet economic meltdown in the 1990s. The flow of petrodollars in the 2000s failed to reverse the navy's fortunes.
> 
> Popov said that, despite increased military budgets, the government has failed to allocate money for building new warships or even maintaining the old ones.
> 
> In the last decade, the navy had commissioned only one relatively small surface warship, he said. Its single Soviet-built aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, is much smaller than U.S. aircraft carriers and has been plagued by mechanical problems and accidents.
> 
> Russia has been in talks with France about a possible purchase of a Mistral-class assault ship and building several others under license — a deal military leaders say will allow Russia to import new Western technologies and modernize its industries.
> 
> Russia's struggling shipbuilders oppose the purchase, arguing that instead of buying a French warship the government should invest in domestic production. A shipyard in Severodvinsk has tried for years to fulfill an order to modernize a Soviet-built aircraft carrier for India and sought to swell a contract price.
> 
> Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.


----------



## CougarKing

Telegraph link



> *Russian Subs Stalk Trident In Echo Of Cold War*
> By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
> Published: 10:37PM BST 27 Aug 2010
> 
> Russian submarines are hunting down British Vanguard boats in a return to Cold War tactics not seen for 25 years, Navy chiefs have warned.
> 
> *A specially upgraded Russian Akula class submarine has been caught trying to record the acoustic signature made by the Vanguard submarines that carry Trident nuclear missiles, according to senior Navy officers.
> 
> British submariners have also reported that they are experiencing the highest number of "contacts" with Russian submarines since 1987*.
> 
> If the Russians are able to obtain a recording of the unique noise of the boat's propellers it would have serious implications for Britain's nuclear deterrent. Using its sophisticated sonar, the Akula would be able to track Vanguards and potentially sink them before they could launch their Trident D4 missiles.
> 
> *The Daily Telegraph has learnt that, within the past six months, a Russian Akula entered the North Atlantic and attempted to track a Vanguard. The incident has remained secret until now.
> 
> It is understood that the Russians stood off Faslane, where the British nuclear force is based, and waited for a Trident-carrying boat to come out for its three-month patrol to provide the Continuous At Sea Deterrent.*
> 
> While patrolling in the North Atlantic, there are a limited number of places the Vanguard is permitted to go and it is thought that the Akula attempted to track it on several occasions.
> 
> Navy commanders are understood to have ordered a Trafalgar-class hunter-killer submarine to protect the Vanguard. A recording of the Akula was made by the Trafalgar submarine's sonar operators and has been played to The Daily Telegraph.
> 
> "The Russians have been playing games with us, the Americans and French in the North Atlantic," a senior Navy commander said.
> 
> "We have put a lot of resources into protecting Trident because we cannot afford by any stretch to let the Russians learn the acoustic profile of one of our bombers as that would compromise the deterrent."


----------



## xena

I always get confused by this.  Are they talking about the subs _*NATO*_ calls "Akula", or the subs the _*Russians*_ call "Akula"?

Schuchka (or "Pike" in English) class submarine - NATO Reporting Name "Akula" (which is Russian for 'shark').

Akula class submarine - NATO Reporting Name "Typhoon".


----------



## xena

I was with 407 (MP) Sqn in the early 90's.  We often quipped that it was great that the Russians are now our allies, but we wished someone would tell their submarine captains that!


----------



## Journeyman

xena said:
			
		

> I always get confused by this.  Are they talking about the subs _*NATO*_ calls "Akula", or the subs the _*Russians*_ call "Akula"?
> 
> Schuchka (or "Pike" in English) class submarine - NATO Reporting Name "Akula" (which is Russian for 'shark').
> 
> Akula class submarine - NATO Reporting Name "Typhoon".


Are you really confused?

I mean, do you really believe that the Russians would use a SSBN, _commonly referred to_ as a "Typhoon," to shadow a British submarine, when an SSN such as the "Akula" (again, _commonly understood_ nomenclature) would be the obvious choice?



ps - you also misspelled the transliteration of "Shchuchka" -- it does start with the letter "Щ" after all.


----------



## xena

Okay.  I kinda figured it was the hunter/killer they were talking about too, but I just wish they'd be more clear when there's that kind of overlap in the names.  But, as for the "commonly referred to" bit, it depends on what part of the world you hang out in.  In Russia, they are "commonly referred to" by different names than their NATO reporting names, and since the end of the Cold War, and the names of the submarine classes were made public knowledge, someone just might occasionally make the effort to be accurate and use the _*actual*_ name of the subs.

Sorry about the spelling.  I don't read or write Russian - I only know a couple of phrases in Slavonic (which is hardly modern Russian).


----------



## aesop081

xena said:
			
		

> and since the end of the Cold War, and the names of the submarine classes were made public knowledge, someone just might occasionally make the effort to be accurate and use the _*actual*_ name of the subs.



I hunt subs for a living......we all use the NATO reporting names. No reason for anyone else to do otherwise since in the west, what is understood is NATO names.


----------



## Sub_Guy

All the while the Akula was probably shadowed by a LA.


----------



## xena

... yeah, that's likely.   >  

Okay, it's obviously just me fixating about the sub class/reporting names.  I just wasn't sure if the NATO names were still SOP for the English speaking civilian world - it apparently is.  I'll be quiet now.  Thanks guys!  Now, where did I put my meds?...   

But, subs have been doing this all along.  The end of the Cold War hasn't stopped anything in the sub-surface world - so, I'm not sure this is all that startling.  I mean, yes, it's rare that it gets leaked, to the point that it's in a book or newspaper, but this isn't really unusual behaviour for a Russian sub, is it?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Isn't this kinda like going to your local park and having someone playing ball on the diamond tell you you can't sit in the bleachers and watch them?


----------



## vonGarvin

Journeyman said:
			
		

> ps - you also misspelled the transliteration of "*Shchuchka*" -- it does start with the letter "Щ" after all.


Good catch, comrade!   8)



			
				Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> All the while the Akula was probably shadowed by a LA.


and the LA was shadowed by what we in the west call a Kilo....

I can see it now: fifty subs in the North Atlantic all chasing each other.  

 ;D


----------



## Yrys

After the medias reporting recently of encounter by the Canadian Aviation
of Russian airplane near our Arctic border, I'm wondering if there is elections 
soon in Russia (as there might be a politician who want to appear rolling 
his muscles in front of his citizens) or if there is a slight sift in the military 
commands...

(If I appear out of my water, it's because I am, I'm a civil...)


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

I would not read too much into this from the Russian side anyway.

Anybody heard just how "bad" their economy is lately? No, and that is the explanation. Their economy is doing well and far better than 10 years ago when they were just learning how capitalism works. So there is more money for the  government and the big boys are going back to playing more often with their floating, diving and flying toys. They play in the only way  they remember.

I suppose, just in case, we could dust off the PK boards.

More likely here, the RN is "strategically leaking" facts that have been ongoing for a while and do not overly concern them in reality because the new government is doing a huge strategic review and the boys at the RN want to ensure that their pet project to update the Vanguards or replace them does not go the way of the Dodo.

Just MHO.


----------



## vonGarvin

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> I suppose, just in case, we could dust off the PK boards.


(slight tangent):
What are "PK boards"?


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

PK Boards.

During the cold war, we carried ASW ops as a permanent coordinated NATO effort. We tried to track all soviet subs as soon as they entered the Atlantic and then keep tabs on them until they returned home.

As a result, the shore Op centres kept up boards that indicated the probable kills, we hoped to achieve in any time period after start of hostilities.

PK1 indicated how many we expected to kill in the first hour, PK12 in the first half day PK24, in a day, etc. 

By looking at how many russian subs were at sea vice how many were on the PK boards, you got an idea of the number of potential "leakers". It was always a sobering figure for the escorts.


----------



## CougarKing

> Defence Talk link
> 
> 
> *Russia set to build nuclear-powered destroyer by 2016*
> 
> By RIA Novosti on Friday, July 1st, 2011
> Russia will finish in 2016 the construction of a new class destroyer, which will most likely be nuclear powered, commander of the Russian Navy Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said on Thursday.
> 
> "A prototype of an ocean-going class destroyer will be built in 2016 for the country's Navy," Vysotsky said at the 5th International Maritime Defense Show, IMDS-2011, in St. Petersburg.
> 
> The admiral added there was a 90 percent probability that the warship would be equipped with a nuclear-powered engine.
> 
> President of Russia's United Shipbuilding Corporation Roman Trotsenko said earlier on Thursday that his company would start designing a new-generation, nuclear-powered destroyer for the Russian Navy this fall.
> 
> He said the design phase will take up to two years.


----------



## OldSolduer

Russia set to build nuclear-powered destroyer by 2016

I have to admit I'm not a nuclear physicist or a nuclear engineer. Most of what I know about nuke power plants in ships comes from reading Tom Clancy novels.

I have read that Russian nuke plants are poorly shielded and not as reliable as Western (US) ones. 

Does this still hold true?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

I am betting its really a cruiser in all but name....


----------



## QORvanweert

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/01-08-2012/121804-russia_army_base-0/

"The Russian government intends to restore the military-technical support of their ships at the former military base in Cam Ranh (Vietnam), Lourdes (Cuba) and the Seychelles. So far, this is not about plans for a military presence, but rather the restoration of the crew resources. However, a solid contractual basis should be developed for these plans.

The intentions were announced on July 27 by the Russian Navy Commander Vice Admiral Viktor Chirkov. "At the international level, the creation of logistics points in Cuba, the Seychelles and Vietnam is being worked out,"   Chirkov was quoted by the media. The issue was specifically discussed at the meeting with the leaders of all countries. President of Vietnam Truong Tan Sang has recently held talks with Prime Minister Dmitri Medvedev in Moscow and President Putin in Sochi. Cuban leader Raul Castro met with Putin in Moscow earlier this month. A little earlier the President of the Republic of Seychelles, James Michel made an unequivocal statement.

"We will give Russia the benefits in Cam Ranh, including the development of military cooperation," the President of Vietnam told the media. Cuba that has an American military base in Guantanamo Bay and is protesting against the deployment of new U.S. bases in Colombia, of course, wants to acquire an ally in Russia to be able to contain the United States. Seychelles in the Indian Ocean has always been in the zone of Soviet influence. In 1981, the Soviet Navy helped the government to prevent the military coup and before the collapse of the USSR the Soviets had a constant presence in the area. In June of 2012, at the opening of an Orthodox church in the capital city of Victoria, James Michel spoke of Russia's role in combating piracy and supported the Russian idea to build a pier in the port of Victoria, designed for the reception of the Navy warships of Russian Federation.

Following the statement by Vice-Admiral, Russian Foreign Ministry and Defense Ministry made it clear that they were talking about rest and replenishment of the crews after the campaign in the area and not military bases. It is clear, however, that Russian warships could do both without special arrangements, given the good attitudes of the leaders of these countries toward Russia. It can be assumed that the Russian Admiral unwittingly gave away far-reaching plans of the Russian leadership. That would be great, because from the time of Peter the Great, Russia had a strong fleet and army. In addition, it is worth mentioning Putin's statement at the G20 meeting in June. After the meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama, Putin made a sudden harsh statement to the press.  

"In 2001 I, as the President of the Russian Federation and the supreme commander, deemed it advantageous to withdraw the radio-electronic center Lourdes from Cuba. In exchange for this, George Bush, the then U.S. president, has assured me that this decision would become the final confirmation that the Cold War was over and both of our states, getting rid of the relics of the Cold War, will start building a new relationship based on cooperation and transparency. In particular, Bush has convinced me that the U.S. missile defense system will never be deployed in Eastern Europe.

The Russian Federation has fulfilled all terms of the agreement. And even more. I shut down not only the Cuban Lourdes but also Kamran in Vietnam. I shut them down because I gave my word of honor. I, like a man, has kept my word. What have the Americans done? The Americans are not responsible for their own words. It is no secret that in recent years, the U.S. created a buffer zone around Russia, involving in this process not only the countries of Central Europe, but also the Baltic states, Ukraine and the Caucasus. The only response to this could be an asymmetric expansion of the Russian military presence abroad, particularly in Cuba. In Cuba, there are convenient bays for our reconnaissance and warships, a network of the so-called "jump airfields." _*With the full consent of the Cuban leadership, on May 11 of this year, our country has not only resumed work in the electronic center of Lourdes, but also placed the latest mobile strategic nuclear missiles "Oak" on the island. They did not want to do it the amicable way, now let them deal with this," Putin said.*_

It is obvious that Russia will not stop simply at "resting" their sailors in the area. Now back to the statement of Chirkov. Americans have not officially resented it. For example, the Pentagon spokesman George Little said that Russia had the right to enter into military agreements and relationships with other countries, as does the United States, according to France Press Agency. The reason is simple: American analysts believe that Russia now cannot afford to create its own military bases.

The Americans talk about Russia's lack of influence, money and the actual fleet. Western media quoted an "independent expert on the defense" in Moscow Paul Fengelgauer. He said that Russia does not have the necessary naval resources to provide constant presence outside its territorial waters, as it has only 30 major warships that serve five fleets. Therefore, the possibility of placing an additional station does not mean the expansion of sea power in Russia. This is largely an objective assessment. But since the crisis in the West in 2008, Russia began to recover part of its navy. The loss was not that great - about a quarter of the Soviet reserve. Another thing is that we should talk about the modernization of the fleet. There is much to maintain. On Thursday, Chirkov said that this year Russia's naval forces can be replenished with another 10-15 warships, including destroyers and nuclear submarines.

As for the influence, judging by the words of the Russian President, Russia is also actively growing in this regard, although work in this direction has only begun. As we can see, Pacific, Atlantic and Indian Oceans are involved. This is due not only to geopolitical reasons, but the growing economic presence of Russia in the regions. For example, "Gazprom" is actively working on offshore Vietnam. In the Caribbean, it also participates in the construction of Meso-American pipeline and field development in Venezuela. An ammunition plant is under construction in Cuba.

However, one should start with a solid contractual basis. Take, for example, agreements on mutual defense that the U.S. has with the Philippines, Japan, Colombia, and Mexico. In the presence of such agreements military bases cannot be challenged as a military expansion. Russia has room to grow - of the 16 operating in the Soviet era military bases today there is only one left - Tartus in Syria, or two, if we consider the base in Sevastopol.

Lyuba Lulko

Pravda.Ru "


Does anyone have another source that could confirm that?


----------



## CougarKing

> *Russian navy will reintroduce Soviet practice and make it more complicated for possible enemies to identify the submarines sailing in surface position.*
> 
> <snipped>
> 
> *The huge and highly visible emblems in the front on the submarines towers make it too easy to figure out which of them sailing or not, believes the main command of the Russian Navy. *
> 
> Now, the order is given to paint over the emblems and numbers on the submarine hulls.
> 
> Source: barentsobserver.com


----------



## CougarKing

Please note the other thread concerning the Russian acquisition of French-made _Mistral_ class assault ships.



> *Russia Announces a Naval Buildup in the Pacific*
> By  Zachary Keck
> July 22, 2013
> 
> In an interview on Russia TV, Rear Admiral Sergei Avakyants, Commander of the Pacific Fleet,* said that his fleet would begin receiving new warships next year for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union.*
> (...)
> 
> According to Reuters, the Mistral-class ships can carry up to 16 helicopters as well as deliver troops, tanks and armored vehicles onto shore. Real Admiral Avakyants did not specify when the Mistral-class vessels would be arriving.
> 
> He did however say that “several” Project 20380 Steregushchy-class corvettes were being built for his fleet, with deliveries expected to begin as early as next year. Steregushchy-class corvettes are large multirole vessels that will replace the Grisha Class corvettes. With a length of 105 meters, width of 13 m, draft of 3.7 m, and full displacement load of 2,200 tons, they are classified as frigates by NATO.
> 
> 
> <snipped>
> 
> 
> The Commander of Russia’s Pacific Fleet also said that one of the first Borey-class ballistic missile submarines would be given the fleet after they are first commissioned at the end of this year. The Borey-class is Russia’s fourth-generation nuclear-powered missile submarine and the first submarine to be built since the Soviet era.  Russia intends to eventually build eight of them to serve as the core of its sea-based strategic deterrent, replace the aging Typhoon and Delta-III and Delta-IV class submarines.
> 
> (...)
> 
> “Rather large-scale deliveries of new equipment, new warships to the Pacific Fleet will start in 2014..."
> 
> Source: thediplomat.com


----------



## tomahawk6

The Russians better do more than beef up the Pacific fleet.They run the risk of losing Siberia entirely to PRC encroachment.


----------



## CougarKing

Defense News link



> *Russian Warships Dock In Cuba On 'Friendly Visit'*
> 
> HAVANA, HAVANA PROVINCE — *Three Russian warships led by the missile cruiser Moskva arrived Saturday in Cuba on a “friendly visit” to the communist-run island, the first such trip in four years.*
> 
> The ships were greeted by an artillery salute, a naval band and a few hundred onlookers as they arrived in the Bay of Havana.
> 
> Cuba’s government has said the ships are here on a “friendly visit” and that tourists will be able to visit the Moskva on Monday.
> 
> The two countries were close allies during the Cold War, when the Soviet Union largely propped up Cuba’s state-run economy as the United States maintained a trade embargo on the island.
> 
> But oil-rich Venezuela has more recently assumed the role of Cuba’s main benefactor, particularly during the 14-year reign of leftist leader Hugo Chavez, who died of cancer in March.
> 
> (...)


----------



## CougarKing

More about the Russian task force in the Med. Sea, close to Syria:



> RT link
> 
> *Russia's Rusting Task Force*
> September 16, 2013
> Paul Pryce - CIMSEC
> 
> 
> *Much has been made in the media of the Russian naval presence in the eastern Mediterranean*.  With tensions rising over the Syrian conflict, the notion that Russian forces are staring down their American and British counterparts at sea fits the popular narrative of mutual antagonism. But is the Russian Navy's Mediterranean task force all that unusual? Does it present a challenge or even a threat to the United States' interests in the region, as some reports would suggest?
> 
> *First of all, it is important to note that a Russian naval presence in the eastern Mediterranean is not unprecedented.* From 1967 until its collapse, the Soviet Union maintained a task force of considerable size in the region, consisting of some 30 warships and an undetermined number of additional support vessels. Furthermore, Russia's naval facility in Tartus, Syria was established in 1971, regularly providing repairs and maintenance for Soviet and later Russian ships.
> 
> In contrast, the Russian presence newly formed in the eastern Mediterranean is quite limited in its size and capabilities. The task force currently consists of twelve vessels: two destroyers, one frigate, two amphibious assault ships, three salvage tugs, a repair ship, and three re-fueling tankers.
> 
> *Despite the relatively small size of the Mediterranean task force*,  the Russian Navy reportedly struggled to find the resources to deploy a task force at all. When the United States Navy has deployed task forces on various operations, the vessels employed are usually drawn from the same fleet. But the Russian Navy's Mediterranean task force is drawn from four of the country's five fleets: Baltic, Northern, Black Sea, and Pacific. Only the Caspian Flotilla - a small contingent itself - did not contribute to the Mediterranean force. *Had the Russian Navy followed the American practice of drawing from a single fleet, it would have left one of its fleets dangerously under-strength*.  This is a testament to how limited Russia's naval capabilities have become in recent years.
> 
> *Another important point regarding the Mediterranean task force is how dated some of the vessels are*. The two Ropucha-class landing ships provided by the Baltic Fleet were originally commissioned for the Soviet Navy in 1975.
> 
> Rather than seeking to intimidate _"the West"_, the deployment of the eastern Mediterranean task force seems to be more a gesture for domestic audiences in Russia. The formation of a new task force allows Russian policymakers to feign progress on this front and assert that Russia is reclaiming _"past glories"_, deflecting criticism from the government's procurement problems. *But this fresh coat of paint won't long conceal all that rust.* A more realistic plan for the development of the Russian Navy is desperately needed.
> 
> 
> *link: Center for International Maritime Security*


----------



## CougarKing

Notable updates for this thread:




> *Russian Navy to Get 40 New Ships in 2014*
> 03/01/2014 (en.ria.ru)
> 
> *In addition to surface ships of various classes, the navy will also commission the third Borey-class nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine, the Vladimir Monomakh, and a Varshavyanka-class diesel electric submarine,* Rear Admiral Viktor Bursuk, a deputy commander of the Russian navy, said.
> <snipped>
> 
> 
> *The Admiral Nakhimov is expected to rejoin the Russian navy in 2018 with the most advanced weapons systems for its vessel type*, the Sevmash shipyard said in June last year.
> 
> Auxiliary ships to be commissioned by the end of 2014 include *the Igor Belousov, an advanced search-and-rescue ship *designed to boost the navy’s ability to rescue submarines and ships in distress, Bursuk said.


----------



## CougarKing

Russia rebuilding a global naval presence not seen since the Cold War when Soviet ships were based as far as Cam Ranh Bay (Vietnam) in the late 1970s/early 1980s?

The Diplomat



> *Russia Says Its Building Naval Bases in Asia, Latin America*
> 
> 
> Russia’s defense minister says the country will soon build military bases everywhere from Vietnam to Cuba.
> 
> 
> A senior Russian defense official has announced that Moscow is looking to build military bases throughout different countries in Asia and the Western Hemisphere.
> 
> *According to RIA Novosti, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Russia is looking to build military bases in Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, the Seychelles, Singapore and several other countries.*
> 
> “The talks are under way, and we are close to signing the relevant documents,” Shoigu said, according to RIA Novosti. The newspaper noted that “Moscow currently has only one naval base outside the former Soviet Union – in Tartus, Syria, but the fate of this naval facility is uncertain because of the ongoing civil war in that country.”
> 
> (...)- EDITED


----------



## CougarKing

> *Russian Navy Unveils New Class of Submarines*
> 
> (ria.ru)
> 
> Russia is currently designing *a fifth-generation conventional submarine, dubbed Project Kalina*, which will be fitted with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system,” Adm. Viktor Chirkov said.
> 
> “Our industry promises to develop this AIP system by 2017 and build the first boat fitted with such a system by 2018,” Chirkov said.
> The admiral earlier said that the new AIP system could be initially tested on the only operational Lada-class diesel-electric submarine in service with the navy, the St. Petersburg, which is undergoing sea trials in the Barents Sea after a series of design changes.
> 
> =====
> see also: Russia May Sell China New Advanced Submarines >>>


----------



## CougarKing

Would this incident necessarily mean that Russian sensors have improved?

Stripes



> *Russia: Apparent US sub driven from Barents Sea*
> 
> MOSCOW — Russian state news agencies say the country's navy claims to have driven away a submarine believed to be American that entered Russia's northern waters.The reports Saturday cited an unnamed representative of the navy's general staff as saying the incident occurred Thursday in the Barents Sea.
> 
> The Barents Sea lies off northwest Russia and the Russian navy's Northern Fleet is based on its shores. The reports said the fleet sent several vessels and an anti-submarine Il-38 aircraft to drive the submarine away.
> 
> (...EDITED)



Russian media claims it was a _Virginia_-Class Submarine: RT link


----------



## OldSolduer

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> Would this incident necessarily mean that Russian sensors have improved?
> 
> Stripes
> 
> Russian media claims it was a _Virginia_-Class Submarine: RT link



Maybe it was one on Kim Jong Un's subs.....after all he did give navigation tips to the captain..... >


----------



## CougarKing

Can they even afford it if the sanctions by the US/West continue to get stiffer?



> *Russian Defense Minister Vows To Strengthen Navy*
> Aug. 19, 2014 - 01:55PM   |   By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
> 
> MOSCOW — Russia announced plans Tuesday to bolster its navy with more advanced weapons in response to NATO's vow to halt the Kremlin's push into Ukraine and feared expansion into eastern Europe.
> 
> Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu told a general security meeting that he expected to hear a detailed report from Russia's navy commander about how this could be achieved efficiently over the coming six years.
> 
> "These proposals must ensure that our forces are re-equipped with modern weapons and military equipment," Russian news agencies quoted Shoigu as saying.
> 
> (...)
> 
> *Russia's current plan through 2020 that Shoigu wants to update is focused on the development of nuclear-powered submarines and aircraft carriers.
> 
> Russia has only one functioning aircraft carrier that was first commissioned in the Soviet era and has been lacking the money and know-how to develop a more modern class.*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)
> 
> 
> Defense News


----------



## CougarKing

New Siberia? New Russia/Novorossiya? What next, New Putinland? :



> *Russia to reopen Northern Fleet base in Arctic*
> 
> Russia has dispatched a group of ships from its Northern Fleet to the Arctic, with the aim of restoring a permanent base in the region, Russia media say.
> 
> A detachment including two amphibious vessels and an anti-submarine ship set off from the fleet's base in Severomorsk, near the Norwegian border.
> 
> It will take equipment and personnel to the eastern *New Siberian Islands*.
> 
> Russia is boosting its naval presence in the Arctic as regional powers seek to claim its rich natural resources.
> 
> "The main aim of another expedition of the Northern Fleet's vessels to the Arctic region is to deliver personnel, equipment and inventory of a Northern Fleet tactical group, which from this year on will serve on the New Siberian Islands on a permanent basis," said fleet commander Adm Vladimri Korolev in a Defence Ministry statement.
> 
> Source: BBC


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Perhaps if the French call this a "mistral class" they can weasel out of the deal they made.  http://www.france24.com/en/20140907-200-years-french-ship-hermione-sails-again-lafayette-usa/


----------



## CougarKing

Russia unveils "Admiral Gorshkov" carbon-fibre frigate...







*Gun for "Admiral Gorshkov"*



> September 11th
> 
> The first production model of 130-mm universal shipborne automatic gun mount A-192m, delivered to OAO "Shipyard" Severnaya Verf "in St. Petersburg to be mounted on the head there to finish building the frigate of *project 22350 " Admiral Gorshkov "*. artillery system designed FSUE "Design Bureau" Arsenal "Frunze" and made in JSC Machine-Building Plant "Arsenal" in St. Petersburg.
> 
> Frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" (serial number 921) was built for the Russian Navy to "Severnaya Verf" 1 February 2006 and launched on October 29, 2010, since being in the stage of completion.
> 
> bmpd.livejournal.com



plus more from another article from _October 9, 2012: 




The Russian-built Admiral Gorshkov class stealth frigate is the first large naval vessel to be made out of carbon fiber. While there are questions regarding the performance and durability of the composite material, the frigate is set to undergo trials in the Barents Sea this November.
		
Click to expand...

_
Izvestia, Severnoe PDB: Multipurpose Frigate of Project 22356 (export version)


----------



## down on the upside

Que Hunt for Red October music.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Follow an embedded Russian reporter (from a government news agency) take a ride on a Russian destroyer making its way to "an unused former-Soviet base in the White Sea" - looks like good eatin' in the wardroom:








Some gratuitous RUS ship shots - The ‘Peter the Great’, a heavy nuclear cruiser ....




.... The heavy nuclear-powered GM cruiser "Peter the Great" of the Arctic fleet seen in the Pacific fleet vessels' sortie for combat training. (RIA Novosti/Vitaliy Ankov) ....




.... and a small IPC-203 anti-submarine ship "Young" sails through Kola Bay. (RIA Novosti/Mikhail Fomichev) ....


----------



## CougarKing

The threat from the Russian and Chinese navies explored in this article below; excerpts from the Russian portion reposted below:

Military.com



> *US Navy Issues Warnings on Russia, China’s Submarine Fleets*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)
> 
> “The Soviet Union devolved into Russia but they kept their nuclear capabilities. They are now re-growing those capabilities and others. As they re-grow, we find that modern Russia appears to have some aspirations both territory-wise and influence-wise that are reminiscent of the way they behaved when we had the Soviet Union,” Connor said.
> 
> Last week, Russia broadcast its intent to upgrade its submarine fleet when Russian officials released photos of two Akula II-class nuclear submarines being ferried to a shipyard to receive modernization upgrades.
> 
> Along with Russia, the U.S. Navy has taken a closer look at China’s submarine fleet warning that its advancement means the Chinese have a global strike capability, Connor said.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

In the aftermath of the occupation of Crimea:

Reuters



> *Russia will add 80 new warships to Black Sea Fleet: fleet commander*
> 
> (Reuters) - Russia will increase its Black Sea fleet with more than 80 new warships by 2020 and will complete a second naval base for the fleet near the city of Novorossiysk by 2016, its commander said on Tuesday.
> 
> In comments made to President Vladimir Putin as he visited the port city, Vice Admiral Alexander Vitko said a second Black Sea base was needed in addition to the main base on the Crimea peninsula annexed from Ukraine because of NATO expansion.
> 
> (...EDITED)


----------



## CougarKing

The Russian sub fleet in focus again:

Military.com



> *CNO Warns of Advanced Russian Submarine Development*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)
> 
> *Russia reportedly plans to sell a variant of its new Amur 1650 attack submarine to the Chinese. The Amur 1650 is a modern version of the Kilo-class Russian submarine with improved acoustic stealth*, new combat systems, and air-independent propulsion, according to a report in the Inquisitr.
> 
> *The website also reported that the Russian military successfully tested a Bulava intercontinental ballistic missile, or ICBM, launched from a Russian nuclear submarine, the Vladimir Monomakh.* The U.S. Navy believes that the newest of China's nuclear submarines, the Jin SSBN, would mark China's first credible at-sea-second-strike nuclear capability, according to the report.
> 
> Greenert said the U.S. Navy is taking its own strides to advance its submarine fleet as the Ohio Replacement Program, or ORP, is in the early stages of development. The U.S. Navy plans to begin construction of a new class of 12 next-generation, quiet and stealthy nuclear-armed submarines able to provide what's called strategic nuclear deterrence.
> 
> Undersea strategic nuclear deterrence means that in the unlikely event of a catastrophic first-strike against the
> 
> U.S. using nuclear weapons, the presence of nuclear-armed submarines in the ocean could guarantee a defensive response.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

From last month:



> *Russia successfully tests Bulava missile on nuclear submarine*
> 30 October 2014
> 
> (...SNIPPED)
> 
> Following its launch from a submerged position at a site in the Barents Sea,* the new missile successfully hit the intended target at the Kura test range in Kamchatka, Russian Far East*, meeting the required parameters of the flight trajectory, according to RIA Novosti.
> 
> "The new missile successfully hit the intended target at the Kura test range."
> 
> The latest test, conducted as part of the Yury Dolgoruky's weapons and systems testing, follows the successful launch of the Bulava missile from the Borey-class Vladimir Monomakh nuclear-powered submarine last month.
> 
> The tests are aimed at making the ICBM Bulava a vital nuclear warhead for Borey-class ballistic missile submarines. It is expected to replace the navy's ageing Delta III, Delta IV and Typhoon classes.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)







The strategic nuclear submarine K-535 "Yuri Dolgoruky" (RIA Novosti)
-




Launch of a Bulava Bulava ballistic missile (SLBM) from the Borey-class Yury Dolgoruky nuclear-powered submarine.
Photo: ria.ru

*YouTube Videos:* 
* Russia’s nuclear sub test-fires Bulava strategic missile
* Bulava Test: First footage inside nuclear submarine launching missile

Sources:
* naval-technology 
* ria.ru


----------



## CougarKing

Reminds me of the time the carrier _Kuznetsov_ steamed through the English channel recently, escorted by the a UK Royal Navy Type 45 destroyer:

Reuters



> *NATO unconcerned by Russian warships in English Channel*
> 
> MOSCOW (Reuters) -* A squadron of Russian warships entered the English Channel on Friday* but a NATO official dismissed a Russian media report that they were there to conduct military exercises.
> 
> Russian news agency RIA quoted the Northern Fleet as saying its vessels, led by *anti-submarine ship Severomorsk,* had passed through the Strait of Dover and were now in international waters in the Seine Bay to wait for a storm to pass.
> 
> "While it is anchored the crew are undertaking a series of exercises on how to tackle infiltrating submarine forces and are training on survival techniques in the case of flooding or fire," RIA quoted the Northern Fleet as saying in a statement.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)
> 
> /quote]


----------



## CougarKing

Putin eyeing the Baltic and Scandinavian states?  ;D

Military.com



> *Heightened Russian Military Activity Observed in Baltic Sea*
> 
> UPI | Dec 11, 2014 | by Ed Adamczyk
> WARSAW, Poland -- Several Baltic nations reported an increase in Russian military air and naval activity in and around the Baltic Sea this week.
> 
> Polish Defense MinisterThomas Siemoniak, interviewed on the Polish television news channel TVN24, suggested Russia was "not preparing to attack," but the "unprecedented" level of action "does not serve to build good relationships and trust." He speculated Russia was testing NATO defense capabilities.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## RK

http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/ryssland-ovar-med-strategiska-bombplan-over-ostersjon_4170627.svd 

Not sure how much you can make out of that using google translate.
Considering how rough the political climate is in Sweden atm, it is a little bothersome that he's flexing his muscles the way he is.

Some days it's easier to remember his comments about the swedes paying for what they did than other days, i wasn't old when he came to power. But I remember that part. 

/the newbie "former" swede (hope i didn't cross any line replying here, appologies if I did)


----------



## CougarKing

Another Arctic outpost:

Business Insider



> *Russia Is Constructing An Arctic Stronghold 30 Miles From The Finnish Border*
> 
> Russia has started moving troops towards a new military installation that's 31 miles from the Finnish border, Damien Sharkov Newsweek reports citing a press statement from Russian admiral Vladimir Korolev.
> 
> As of Jan. 13, approximately 800 servicemen from Russia's Northern Fleet had been stationed in the Russian town of *Alakurtti, in the Murmansk region*. Alakurtti is due to become one of Russia's key strongholds in its quest to fortify its position and influence over the Arctic region.
> 
> *The rest of Russia’s Northern Fleet — which includes 3,000 ground troops trained for combat in Arctic conditions backed by 39 ships and 45 submarines — will be stationed there "soon."*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## MilEME09

It should also be noted Russia has 4 operation airbases in the Arctic with 10 more coming online within the next year or so by their own reporting. The question is though with oil prices tanking, does Russia have the money to keep all these new bases running?


----------



## CougarKing

Someone eavesdropping on what changes the US and Cuban officials are mulling?



> *Russian spy ship docks quietly in Havana on eve of high-level meetings between Cuba, U.S.*
> 
> A 300-feet Russian intelligence warship docked quietly in Havana Tuesday is fueling speculation about the renewal of diplomatic relations with the U.S.
> 
> Its arrival, on the eve of a historic meeting between Cuba and the United States, was not announced by Cuban authorities or the press. *The Viktor Leonov CCB-175* entered the Bay of Havana in the morning and was moored to a pier often used by cruise ships, the AFP news agency reported.
> 
> (Continued...)



Fox News


----------



## CougarKing

Seems things are bleaker in the Russian Navy than what Putin would have Russia's neighbours believe...

*War Is Boring/Medium.com*



> *The Russian Navy Is on the Verge of Collapse*
> Big ships age out and Moscow can't replace them
> 
> by DAVID AXE
> 
> The Kremlin has announced that Russia will hugely boost its naval operations in 2015.
> 
> But that's an empty promise - or threat, if you will. In fact, the Russian fleet is on the edge of a precipitous decline in ship numbers and combat power, owing to huge industrial shortfalls that have been decades in the making.
> 
> Even if the fleet is busier in 2015 than it was in 2013, in coming years it will have fewer and fewer ships to be busy with - and those that remain will be progressively smaller and weaker than rival vessels.
> 
> Today the Russian navy possesses around 270 warships including surface combatants, amphibious ships, submarines and auxiliaries.
> 
> *Of the 270 ships, just 125 or so are in a working state. And of those 125, only around 45 are oceangoing surface warships or submarines that are in good shape and deployable.*
> 
> By comparison, the U.S. Navy possesses some 290 warships. Pretty much all of them are well-maintained, deployable, oceangoing vessels.
> 
> All the same, a force of almost 50 large warships is no insignificant thing, and outguns the fleets of all but the most powerful countries. The problem is that today's Russian navy is old...  and won't last much longer.
> 
> Many, if not most, of the Soviet-vintage ships will decommission in the next few years as they became too old to sail safely and economically.
> 
> Under Pres. Vladimir Putin's regime, the Kremlin has laid plans to rebuild the fleet. But that's easier said than done when the vessels most badly in need of replacement are also the most difficult to build - heavy cruisers, powerful destroyers and _Admiral Kuznetsov_, Russia's sole aircraft carrier, which is barely seaworthy after nearly three decades in service.
> 
> And it doesn’t help that Russia has invaded and alienated Ukraine, which built Admiral Kuznetsov and until recently supplied Russian shipyards with many of the heavy components they need to complete new warships.


----------



## CougarKing

Russia unable to maintain current production of new subs due to falling oil prices?

Defense News



> *Will Russia's Sub-Building Boom Matter?*
> By Christopher P. Cavas 4:25 p.m. EST January 24, 2015
> 
> WASHINGTON — The Russian Navy's submarine force is on a roll.
> 
> Four different kinds of submarines are under construction and more are coming. *The country expects to lay down five new nuclear submarines in 2015*.
> 
> *The Navy is accepting Borey-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines, Yasen-class nuclear attack submarines, and Kilo- and Lada-class diesel electric attack submarines. Six Kilos are being built for Vietnam and more are offered for export.*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)
> 
> But can Russia sustain this prodigious submarine construction effort?
> 
> "The naval production we're likely to see this year is an artifact of decisions made some time ago when oil prices were fairly high and before a number of Western countries imposed sanctions on Russia," Mahnken said. "Whatever the Russians do this year, *I think it'll be very hard for them to sustain naval production going forward."
> 
> Added Friedman: "Putin doesn't have that much money. And with the drop in oil prices, they have very bad problems."
> *
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

"Can they even afford it?" is the question that needs to be asked. Unless they intend to sell it to India or China.

Yahoo Finance/Business Insider



> *Russia claims it's in the early stages of developing an aircraft carrier that can hold 100 planes*
> 
> According to Russia's TV Vezda, the carrier would be able to stow 100 aircraft onboard. The body of the carrier is also being designed to minimize drag by 20% compared to past Russian carriers. If built, the vessel would be Russia's first carrier to debut since the Admiral Kuznetsov, which launched in 1985. The Kuznetsov is Russia's only functioning carrier.
> 
> TV Vezda also stated that the ship would feature catapults on the ship's top to launch aircraft during storms. However, this claim is countered by the fact that the carrier's models feature a ski-ramp style aircraft in the front aircraft takeoff like older Soviet models, which did not have catapults .
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

If the past is indicative of anything, we won't see that ship for another 20 years.

Moreover, the number of aircraft on a carrier is not a relevant figure. The American carried more than 100 planes on their carriers during WWII. The aircrafts were a lot smaller than the ones they have now and I would not want them to fight today's war.

The real issue is therefore which aircraft type are they talking about, and how easily can those planes be defeated by a potential enemy.


----------



## CougarKing

OBGR, 

Do you think it will be similar to the cancelled _Ulyanovsk_ Class Soviet supercarrier of the late 1980's? It featured a ski-jump on the bow and two catapults on the waist:


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

It is quite possible. If experience serves, the Soviet/Russians seldom trow anything away, so it could serve as the starting point. However, the Ulyanovsk proved to be too complex an undertaking then, and it might still be now. Moreover, the design then presented in public (close to the one you posted) was severely criticized at the time for poor design of the upper deck/hangar arrangement, which was thought to be inimical to efficient cyclical ops (the constant switching from launching ops to recovery ops and so forth).


----------



## OldSolduer

So why doesn't Russia do what it always does?

Steal the design of a competitor nation? >


----------



## Lightguns

What an interesting parallel!  In order to build Bismack, the Germans went back to the Imperial Navy drawings of the Brandenburg class for a modern capital ship.  Interesting how rather than a new radical design, which is what a state that sets itself to first nation player should done, these European successor states look back to their glory days for ideas.


----------



## CougarKing

Carrier _Kuznetsov_ sailors sunbathing on a Cypriot beach one day?

BBC



> *Cyprus signs deal to allow Russian navy to use ports*
> 
> Cyprus has signed an agreement with Moscow to give Russian navy ships access to Cypriot ports.Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed the deal after talks with Cypriot President Nicos Anastasiades.
> 
> The deal with Cyprus comes as tensions with the West over the Ukrainian conflict continue. President Putin said that other countries should not be concerned and that the port's main use would be for counter terrorism and anti piracy.
> 
> *The island already hosts British military bases. Britain announced on Tuesday that it would be deploying troops to Ukraine as trainers.*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## a_majoor

Proposed new Russian missile cruiser (although it is classed as a Destroyer, the description is certainly much closer to a guided missile cruiser.) The long timeline and lack of specific data on proposed fire control and radar systems certainly makes this more of a PowerPoint cruiser at this time, and of course Russia may have to make some very important prioritization decisions in order to afford even a fraction of the systems they are announcing:

http://rbth.com/defence/2014/11/12/designers_to_start_work_on_new_russian_destroyer_in_2015_41325.html



> *Designers to start work on new Russian destroyer in 2015*
> 
> November 12, 2014Vladimir Scherbakov, special to RBTH
> 
> Russia’s new future destroyer will enter the design stages in 2015. The lead ship, the chief military purpose of which is to establish supremacy on the open sea, will become operative no sooner than 2025. It is presumed that the destroyer will be equipped with the Caliber cruise missile system and the Prometheus ZRK (anti-aircraft surface-to-air missile system).
> 
> Work on the design of the “Leader” is scheduled to begin in 2015. Source: Vladimir Scherbakov
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Defense has confirmed the specifications for the design of a new destroyer, according to a report by news agency ITAR-TASS on Oct. 21, referencing a highly placed source in the domestic defense industry. The program for the creation of the vessel has been assigned the codename of “Leader.”
> 
> Work on the Russian “lord of the seas” has been entrusted to the Northern Design Bureau, the creator of practically all of the major surface warships in the Russian fleet. Work on the design of the “Leader” is scheduled to begin in 2015, but the construction of the first of the series of 12 ships – half a dozen for the Northern and Pacific fleets – is not expected before 2023-2025.
> 
> However, five years ago the fleet command confirmed that the construction of the destroyer would commence in 2012, while two years ago representatives of the United Shipbuilding Corporation mentioned 2016.
> 
> Admiral Nakhimov to become most powerful missile cruiser in Russian fleet
> 
> Of particular interest is the fact that the “Leader” program is said not to have been included in the state armaments program for 2020 and funds for the construction of destroyers may only be allocated within the framework of a shipbuilding program planned until 2050.
> 
> “The decision to change the date for the creation of ‘Leader’-type destroyers to 2023-2025 was completely justified,” the independent military and naval expert Alexander Mozgovoi explained to RBTH.
> 
> “First of all, the Russian shipbuilding industry simply cannot build such ships at the moment. Secondly, immense sums of money are needed to implement the program, but this money can currently be put to great use in other areas. Thirdly, some of the armaments systems meant for the ‘Leaders’ simply do not exist yet. They only exist on paper.”
> 
> The long arms and sharp claws of the ‘lord of the seas’
> 
> It is believed that the main attack method for the “Leader” will be the Caliber integrated missile system which is exported under the name “Klub” and includes 3M-14 anti-ship and cruise missiles. These are designed for the destruction of important targets at great distances deep in enemy territory and have been called upon to serve as the “long arm” of the destroyer.
> 
> In addition, the Caliber has anti-submarine missiles that make it possible to destroy various enemy submarines with great efficiency, including silent non-nuclear subs.
> 
> Russian fleet to receive secret new cruise missile
> 
> The destroyer’s second “long arm” may be the Onyx strike system with supersonic cruise missiles. Moreover, both the Caliber and the Onyx can be used from the same launching unit. This gives Russian warships full versatility and real multi-tasking capabilities.
> 
> A version of the unique S-500 Prometheus anti-aircraft missile system meant for ships will guarantee protection from air attacks. It is even capable of destroying targets located in nearby sectors of outer space. The ship will also get medium and close-range air and missile defense systems.
> 
> In addition, artillery and mine-torpedo equipment – used for fighting saboteurs, helicopters, and drones – will be installed on the “Leader”, as well as modern radar and sonar which will allow the destroyer’s crew to detect any air, water surface, or underwater targets, even small or inconspicuous ones, at distances of tens, even hundreds of kilometers.
> 
> However, the precise nature of the armaments to be carried by the “Leader” is not yet known - there are weapons systems still in the development stage which will only be available for use in the fleet after several years. In particular, the then-First Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin spoke in spring 2011 of work on the creation of the Zircon-S ship-based hypersonic missile system.
> 
> Nuclear or gas energy supply?
> 
> The most disputed issue in the “Leader” program is related to the choice of the destroyer’s main energy supply. So, according to the information published, the Ministry of Defense has ordered work on drafts for two options for the main energy supply – gas turbine and nuclear.
> 
> Upgrade of Russia’s strategic potential will be completed by 2020
> 
> “At the R&D stage, the ministry will conclusively determine which is more appropriate, a nuclear or conventional destroyer, or whether it should be both. The latter option is totally possible,” a highly-placed source in the Russian military-industrial complex told the ITAR- TASS news agency.
> 
> Yet questions remain, especially financial ones. Considering the current capacities of domestic shipbuilding, today’s complicated financial and economic situation, and fact that the surface water strength of the Russian fleet requires large-scale and rapid upgrading, does the Ministry of Defense think – even hypothetically – that it can allow itself the construction of destroyers with two types of power-generation units? Or even in midget batches – six nuclear and six gas turbine ships?
> 
> “Resuming a permanent presence on the world’s oceans should not be making a hole in the Russian budget,” the executive editor of the Independent Military Review, Oleg Vladykin, told RBTH.
> 
> - http://rbth.com/defence/2014/11/12/designers_to_start_work_on_new_russian_destroyer_in_2015_41325.html)


----------



## CougarKing

China and Russia spreading their joint global footprint:

Business Insider



> *China and Russia will hold joint naval drills in the Mediterranean Sea for the first time ever*
> 
> China will hold joint naval drills with Russia in mid-May in the Mediterranean Sea, the first time the two countries will hold military exercises together in that part of the world, the Chinese Defence Ministry said on Thursday.
> 
> China and Russia have held naval drills in Pacific waters since 2012.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## Robert0288

That's a bit of a trek if not transiting via the Suez.


----------



## Blackadder1916

Robert0288 said:
			
		

> That's a bit of a trek if not transiting via the Suez.



Why wouldn't they transit the canal?  Chinese warships have used it in the past. 
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/724411.shtml
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4261923,00.html


----------



## Underway

Canadian Naval Review's spring issue carried a nice article on the  current state of Russia's Navy.

Some samples:



> ...............
> A combined reading of the Russian National Security Strategy (2009), Military Doctrine (2014) and Foreign Policy Concept (2013) reveals that Russia sees four external threats: NATO expansion; the deployment of ballistic missile defence capability in Europe; regional and local wars on Russia’s borders; and terrorism/radicalism.  Collectively, the policy documents illustrate a perception of insecurity and vulnerability in the face of Western technological superiority, soft power and military operations in areas of interest to Russia. The policy tone is decidedly more anti-Western/American and considerably more nationalist than in the previous decade
> ..............





> .................
> Although Russia has not articulated a naval doctrine since 2001, the 2010 Russian National Maritime Policy made an oblique yet important reference to naval strategy. It observed that unfettered access to the world’s oceans was essential to Russia’s economic well-being and that beyond the critical tasks of defence and deterrence, the RFN could undertake maritime peace support and humanitarian operations, maintain freedom of the seas, and engage in naval diplomacy. In contrast to the defensive nationalist ndertones in Russian defence and security policy, this refl ects an outward-looking, potentially cooperative approach to maritime security not unlike those of Western states. Indeed, the RFN has been an active contributor to anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden since 2007. However, Russia’s disinclination to attach its ships to either NATO or European Union naval task forces suggests that while there is a common interest in assuring good order at sea, Russia prefers to act independently to achieve this, thereby avoiding any appearance of subordination to the West.
> ....................



In particular I like this section:



> .............
> Curiously, the RFN’s short-term outlook resembles that faced by the RCN: a temporary dip in the number of operational units while industry re-capitalizes and delivers new or upgraded capabilities plus the ongoing challenge of recruiting and retaining skilled personnel. Also, lower energy prices aff ect the national revenues of both countries and could therefore slow the pace of naval re-capitalization. But while the quantity of new vessels under construction in Russia is meant to cover its dispersed maritime spaces imultaneously (a challenge also faced by Canada), it may also refl ect the age-old Russian belief that combat resilience is, in part, a function of mass. RCN planners who believe that quality can adequately compensate for quantity should take careful note. Smaller numbers of ‘exquisite’ ships may be a strategic handicap – even in operations short of combat.
> ................


----------



## CougarKing

Some updates on Russia's expanding sub fleet:

Diplomat



> *How Many Ballistic Missile Submarines Will Russia Build?
> The head of the Russian Navy is considering increasing the number of SSBNs to be commissioned past 2020*
> 
> Russia will continue building Borei-class fourth generation SSBN (Ship, Submersible, Ballistic, Nuclear) submarines past 2020 the Russian Navy’s Commander in Chief, Admiral Viktor Chirkov recently told TASS in an interview.
> 
> “Our shipbuilding program is devised in a way that does not envisage a stop to the construction of Borei-class submarines after 2020,” Chirkov said at an international naval show in St. Petersburg last week.
> 
> Cherokee’s statement could indicate that Russia’s fleet of Borei-class submarines may increase from the currently planned eight to 12 by the 2020s. However, Chirkov emphasized that this is “depending on the situation and the development of international relations.”
> 
> (...SNIPPED)



more:

Diplomat



> *Russia's Deadliest Sub Will Have a New Home by October
> Construction at the Rybachiy Nuclear Submarine Base is moving according to plan, a Russian official tells the press.*
> 
> New Russian submarine facilities currently under construction on the Kamchatka Peninsula could be completed by the end of October USNI News reports.
> 
> The Rybachiy Nuclear Submarine Base, located nine miles (15 kilometers) across Avacha Bay from the region’s capital Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, is home to most of Russia’s Pacific nuclear submarine fleet and will be the homeport of the Russian Navy’s new Borei-class (aka Dolgorukiy-class), Project 955, fourth generation SSBN (Ship, Submersible, Ballistic, Nuclear) submarines.
> 
> According to the Russian Navy’s Commander in Chief, Admiral Viktor Chirkov, the construction on the base, which includes recreation facilities, warehouses, and a new crane used to install missiles on the subs, is moving according to plan:
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

More to add to today's updates above:

Diplomat



> *Groundhog Day: ‘Russia Developing 5th Generation Sub’
> Only seeing is believing when it comes to Russia’s ambitious 2050 shipbuilding program.*
> 
> In any case, waiting for the completion of the Yasen project could take a while. The 13,800-ton, 390-foot long and highly automated Yasen-class of Russian attack submarines was supposed to replace older Soviet-era multi-purpose nuclear submarine models by 2020.
> 
> Yet, the exorbitant costs of the submarines — estimated to be twice as much as the new Borei-class SSBNs – has so far led only to the commissioning of one out of eight SSGNs, with a further three to four vessels likely to be completed by 2020.
> 
> *The first of six Yasen-class multi-purpose attack nuclear submarines (SSGN) projected to enter service in the Far East over the next ten years will join the Pacific Fleet in 2017 at the earliest. Russia’s Northern Fleet currently operates one Yasen-class SSGN, the K-329 Severodvinsk, but was projected to receive six SSG*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)



International Business Times



> Russia developing new "carrier-killer sub"
> by Christopher Harress
> July 7, 2015.
> 
> The Russian navy is developing two new fifth generation submarines with the ability to sink aircraft carriers and protect submarines that carry nuclear weapons, according to a Monday report from Sputnik, a pro-Russian news website. The project, which could be completed before the decade is out, is part of Moscow's $350 billion military modernization program aimed at reinforcing the Kremlin's current defense posture across Europe and gaining military parity with the United States.
> 
> Earlier in June, chief of the Russian Navy Viktor Chirkov confirmed that the new submarines had been designed by the Malakhit marine engineering design bureau and would be constructed by the Sevsmash shipbuilding company. "We need low-noise, fast-maneuvering submarines with the highest level of stealthiness and equipped with powerful weapons," said Chirkov, who also mentioned that the subs were likely to be completed by 2020. "In order to avoid pauses and standstill, we have started design work on developing submarines of the next, i.e. fifth generation."
> 
> 
> (...full article at link above)


----------



## CougarKing

An _Oscar_ class sub in the news:
G Captain



> *Russian Nuclear Submarine Rescues Sailors in Distress*
> 
> A group of civilian mariners got the surprise of their lives this Sunday when a giant Russian nuclear submarine came to the rescue after they had sent out a distress signal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Photos courtesy Russian Ministry of Defense_


----------



## CougarKing

Updates on Russian naval aviation and shipbuilding progress:

Sputnik News



> *Su-33 Northern Fleet Navy Flankers Enter Into Kola Arctic Service *
> © Sputnik/ Yuriy Lashov
> RUSSIA
> 
> 22305290
> The fleet of aircraft entered into service in defense of the air borders of the Kola area of the Arctic region following a ceremony on August 1; the aircraft is a naval fighter jet based on the Su-27.
> 
> A fleet of Su-33 navy flankers have entered service in the Kola zone of the Russian Arctic, the Northern Fleet of the Russian navy announced on Monday.
> 
> Three More Prototypes of Sukhoi T-50 Fighter to Start Flight Tests in 2015
> "Pilots of the shipborne fighter aviation regiment of the Northern Fleet have begun service guarding the air borders of the Kola Arctic region using the deck-based Su-33 fighter jet – the naval equivalent of the multi-role Su-27 fighter jet," stated a spokesman for the Northern Fleet on Monday



Sputnik News



> *Russian Navy to Receive 17 Warships, 52 Support Vessels by Year's End*
> © Sputnik/ Igor Zarembo
> 
> MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The Russian Navy will receive 17 warships and cutters, as well as 52 support vessels by the end of 2015, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Monday.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## MarkOttawa

Extensive description, note Arctic--will bucks be there for building plans?



> Russia's new maritime doctrine
> http://www.janes.com/article/53643/russia-s-new-maritime-doctrine



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## CougarKing

A _Borey_ class sub on the move:

Diplomat



> ]*Russia’s Deadliest Sub Is Heading to the Pacific
> Moscow’s Pacific fleet will soon receive its first Borei-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine.*
> 
> By Franz-Stefan Gady
> September 03, 2015
> 
> The Borei-class (aka Dolgorukiy-class), Project 955, fourth generation nuclear-powered ballistic submarine (SSBN), Alexander Nevsky, will join Russia’s Pacific fleet in early September based on information obtained from the Russian Joint Staff, according to TASS .
> 
> “In mid-August, the Alexander Nevsky started subglacial passage from the Northern Fleet to the Pacific Fleet for the permanent combat duty. It is expected to arrive in Kamchatka in the first week of September,” a source within the Russian Joint Staff told TASS.
> 
> The Alexander Nevsky is the second Borei-class vessel built and was commissioned in December 2013. Once arriving in Russia’s Far East, it will join the permanent readiness forces of the Russian Pacific fleet and will be part of the 25th division of submarines based in Vilyuchinsk.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

A weapon as threatening to coastal cities that hasn't been seen since the nuclear-armed torpedoes of the Cold War?

Diplomat



> *Is Russia Building a Top-Secret Nuclear-Armed Underwater Drone?
> Pentagon officials think that Moscow’s newest weapon could obliterate entire coastal cities.*
> 
> By Franz-Stefan Gady
> September 17, 2015
> 
> Russia is purportedly working on a top-secret unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV), which, once operational, will be armed with megaton-class nuclear warheads Bill Gertz over at The Washington Free Beacon reports. Moscow’s newest arms program, code-named “Kanyon” by the U.S. military, has allegedly been designed to target both naval ports used by the U.S. Navy’s submarine fleet as well as U.S. coastal regions. According to Gertz:
> 
> Officials familiar with details of the Kanyon program said the weapon is envisioned as an autonomous submarine strike vehicle armed with a nuclear warhead ranging in size to “tens” of megatons in yield. A blast created by a nuclear weapon that size would create massive damage over wide areas. A megaton is the equivalent of 1 million tons of TNT.
> 
> Additional details on the program are murky. “This is an unmanned sub that will have a high-speed and long-distance capability,” one source states without offering further information.
> 
> However, Russia it seems is years away from testing a prototype, according to a defense official interviewed by Gertz. “The Kanyon represents another example of Russia’s aggressive and innovative approach to the development of military capabilities against U.S. and Western interests,” emphasizes a former CIA analyst. Furthermore the expert points out:
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

Oscars, Deltas to soldier on for 20 more years?

Diplomat



> *Russia to Upgrade 12 Nuclear-Powered Subs
> Moscow wants to expand the boats’ service life by another 20 years.*
> 
> By Franz-Stefan Gady
> October 05, 2015
> 
> The Russian Navy is in the process of modernizing and overhauling 12 multi-purpose nuclear-powered submarines, IHS Jane’s Navy International reports. In September, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told reporters that six boats are already undergoing modernization at the Zvezda shipyard at Bolshoy Kamen on Russia’s Pacific coast.
> 
> *The six boats include project 971 SSN Akula-class, project 949A SSGN Oscar II-class, and Project 667 SSBN Delta III-class nuclear-powered submarines.* In detail, the vessels at Zvezda are the Kuzbass and Magadan (both Akula-class), the Irkutsk, Chelyabinsk, and Tver (all Oscar II-class), and the Ryazan (Delta III-class).
> 
> All nuclear-powered submarines will be equipped with new weapon systems, including new missiles.* The goal is to extend their service life by 20 years and to bring the boats up to the technological level of Russia’s most modern nuclear-powered undersea vessels, such as the project 885 Yasen-class SSGNs.*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

More on the warships launching cruise missiles against rebels in Syria:

Buyan-M class corvettes in action, firing vertical-launch Kalibr (export version known as Klub) land-attack missiles at targets in Syria from the Caspian Sea! 

Russia Today









> October 7, 2015
> 
> If ultimately confirmed, the ability for the Russians to launch a strike from that far is also revelatory Eric Wertheim — naval analyst and author of U.S. Naval Institute’s Combat Fleets of the World — told USNI News on Wednesday.
> 
> Russian possession of a weapon that parallels the range and performance of the Raytheon Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM) — the U.S. long range land attack missile — shows “the rest of the world is catching up to this technology,” Wertheim said.  “It’s a wake up call.”
> 
> US Naval Institute
> 
> 08.10.2015
> 
> In actuality Kalibr is a whole family of missiles with numerous subtypes, intended for Russian Armed Forces and foreign customers. There are variants for Ground Forces and Air Forces use, but these missiles are being used most extensively by the Navy. They are manufactured for submarines (Kalibr-PL) and surface ships (Kalibr-NK). ...
> 
> That’s why we are witnessing *mass “Kalibration” of the Russian Navy.* The first ship to receive Kalibr-NK was the Dagestan light frigate of Project 11661K built by the Maksim Gorkiy plant in Zelyonodolsk. It entered service on November 28, 2012 after a successful Kalibr launch at a land target. It was followed by three Project 21631 Buyan-M small missile boats: Grad Slavyazhsk, Uglich, and Velikiy Ustyug. These small ships with full displacement of 949 tons carry 8 Kalibr missiles each in UKSK vertical launch cells, which can also launch Oniks supersonic anti-ship missiles. Grad Slavyazhsk carried out a successful launch in September 2013 against a land target.
> 
> Southfront.org


----------



## McG

"Oops!  Sorry about that!"

Russian missiles miss Syria and hit Iran.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/russia-bombed-iran-by-mistake-when-cruise-missiles-aimed-at-syrian-crashed-in-islamic-republic-u-s-says


----------



## dimsum

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> More on the warships launching cruise missiles against rebels in Syria:
> 
> Buyan-M class corvettes in action, firing vertical-launch Kalibr (export version known as Klub) land-attack missiles at targets in Syria from the Caspian Sea!
> 
> Russia Today



I'd like to think that this would be the TSN Turning Point, or at least a wake-up call, for some folks in dark blue about the capabilities of Corvettes vice DDH/FFH and up.  Of course, they will never be as "sexy" as a large honkin' Cruiser or Carrier.

From Wiki, size-wise (obviously not weapons/speed-wise) those aren't that much different than our MCDVs.


----------



## tomahawk6

The corvette's launched SS-N-30 cruise missiles with a range of 1000 miles.This was definitely an eye opener before it was thought that these misiles only had a range of 150 miles.If Russia sells these to Iran or any other potential enemies we better hope our defensive systems are up to the task or else we could lose a carrier.


----------



## MilEME09

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The corvette's launched SS-N-30 cruise missiles with a range of 1000 miles.This was definitely an eye opener before it was thought that these misiles only had a range of 150 miles.If Russia sells these to Iran or any other potential enemies we better hope our defensive systems are up to the task or else we could lose a carrier.



It also will make the intelligence community, and me worried, what else are we wrong about?


----------



## winnipegoo7

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The corvette's launched SS-N-30 cruise missiles with a range of 1000 miles.This was definitely an eye opener before it was thought that these misiles only had a range of 150 miles.If Russia sells these to Iran or any other potential enemies we better hope our defensive systems are up to the task or else we could lose a carrier.



Who thought that?

November 2014


> Sources in the Russian media also say that soon the Calibers will be able to strike targets at a range of at least 1,000 kilometers


http://in.rbth.com/economics/2014/11/07/admiral_nakhimov_missile_to_spearhead_russian_navy_39551

March 2015:


> "Critically important facilities" can be defeated or destroyed using a range of tools, including long-range LACMs. Russia's newest naval land-attack missile, the SS-N-30A, can hit targets located anywhere from 1,300km (700nm) to 2,600km (1,400nm) away, although sources differ. Caspian Flotilla commander  Rear Admiral Alekminskiy mentioned the 2,600km range during a June 2012 meeting with Dagestan president Magomedsalam Magomedov; however, a range of 3,000km (1,620nm) has been seen in unofficial reporting.


http://7fbtk.blogspot.ca/2015_03_01_archive.html

August 2015:


> Part of the Kalibr family, however, is intended solely for “domestic consumption” (known as 3M14, 3M54, and 3M541) and their ranges are many times greater (some sources use the “E” designation for missiles not intended for export, which is an obvious mistake). Depending on the source, their range is either 2,600 km or 1,500 km; some hypothesize that the longer range is associated with missiles equipped with nuclear warheads while conventionally armed Kalibr SLCMs have the 1,500 or somewhat greater range.


http://armscontrolwonk.com/


I found those sources on Google. Hopefully American defence analysts have other sources available to them. 


And if Iranians scare you, here is their newest cruise missile:
http://www.janes.com/article/49998/analysis-iranian-cruise-missile-unveiling-raises-questions-about-range


----------



## CougarKing

Hasn't this been in practice since the Cold War?

Diplomat



> *Undersea Cables: How Russia Targets the West’s Soft Underbelly*
> 
> Washington is worried about Moscow’s ability to disrupt global Internet communications.
> L1001025
> By Franz-Stefan Gady
> October 27, 2015
> 
> *Russia has been stepping up its submarine patrols near remote locations of fiber optic cables laid on the ocean floor and carrying digital data across continents the New York Times reports.*
> 
> Pentagon officials and European diplomats speaking on the condition of anonymity compared Russian activities to Cold War levels, when both East and West repeatedly tried to tap undersea cables to extrapolate intelligence, something that is still standard practice among the world’s leading intelligence agencies, although it is rarely talked about in public.
> 
> *The United States is in particular concerned about Russia’s burgeoning capabilities to interrupt global internet traffic communications by cutting undersea cables in the event of a conflict with the West. Russian submarine patrols have risen by over 50 percent in the last year, according to statements made by senior officials of the Russian Navy.*
> 
> However, the precise nature of Russian activities remains highly classified. “It would be a concern to hear any country was tampering with communication cables; however, due to the classified nature of submarine operations, we do not discuss specifics,” a U.S. Navy spokesman told the New York Times.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## cavalryman

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> Hasn't this been in practice since the Cold War?
> 
> Diplomat



To steal from a USN blogger.... In the 80s, this was called Monday  ;D


----------



## CougarKing

More Russian naval projects in the pipeline:






*Russia's new Project 22160 corvettes to be armed with Kalibr-NK missiles*

Jane's

26 October 2015

The Russian Navy's new Project 22160 patrol ships will be armed with the Kalibr-NK land attack cruise missile, according to Alexander Karpov, First Deputy Director General of Gorky Zelenodolsk Shipyard.

For Karpov the capability of the missiles was proved when Russia launched Kalibr-NK strikes from the Caspian Sea into Syria on 7 October: "The successful salvoes…demonstrated the firepower of these missiles. Besides, they take up little volume."



> New at Euronaval 2012, the 22160 OPV is offered for export in a military version. At 94 metres long, with a 14 m. beam and a draught of 3.4 metres, this variant can be armed with Alfa/Club anti-ship missiles or Shtil-1 (SA-N-7) anti-aircraft missiles in vertical silos and a 57mm gun. Target designation is provided by Positiv-ME1 or Fregat-MAE-4K (Top Plate) radars. Self defence is based on eight Igla anti-air missiles, TK-25E electronic countermeasures, PK-10 decoy launchers, two anti-diver grenade launchers and two 14.5mm machine guns. The hangar can house a 12 tonne Kamov Ka-28 (Helix) helicopter. Four 300kW high-speed diesels provide a speed of 30 knots.
> 
> DSI-Presse, Severnoye DB


Design based on an OPV in service with the Russian border guards. bastion-opk.ru 

*Russia's Bal-E coastal defense system to be equipped with upgraded Kh-35 missile*

Navy Recognition



> 28 October 2015
> 
> The Bal coastal defense system will be equipped with an upgraded version of the Kh-35E missile, Morinformsystem-Agat Group CEO and General Designer Georgy Antsev told TASS on Tuesday. Morinformsystem-Agat naval weapons developer is upgrading the Bal coastal defense missile system. The system will receive a modernized missile, which has a *range of up to 300 kilometers (186 miles) and can be guided via unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV)*, he added.


Kh-35 aka "Uran" most numerous Russian antiship missile arming for example missile boats Molniya license-built in Vietnam.


----------



## CougarKing

The author of this article states that this "Status 6" torpedo is actually the same system as the aforementioned Kanyon nuke-armed UUV:

Diplomat



> *Revealed: Russia’s Top Secret Nuclear Torpedo
> 
> Moscow’s new weapon could obliterate entire coastal cities.*
> L1001025
> By Franz-Stefan Gady
> November 13, 2015
> 
> A Russian state-run television station accidentally aired top secret plans of a new long-range nuclear torpedo called *“Status-6”* RT reports.
> 
> The incident occurred this week during a meeting of Russian President Vladimir Putin with top military officers of the Russian Armed Forces in Sochi, located on the Black Sea in southwestern Russia.  During the meeting, where the development of Russia’s military capabilities were being discussed, a TV crew from state-run Channel One filmed a Russian general studying a diagram of a new “oceanic multi-purpose Status-6 system.”
> 
> Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov confirmed that the Russian media accidentally leaked classified data this Tuesday. “It is true some secret data got into the shot, and it was subsequently deleted. We hope that this won’t happen again,” he said.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)
> 
> 
> *It appears that the “Status-6” torpedo/UUV is more or less the same weapon system that I have reported on back in September (See: “Is Russia Building a Top-Secret Nuclear Armed Underwater Drone?”). Codenamed “Kanyon” by Pentagon officials, it has allegedly also been designed to target both naval ports used by the U.S. Navy’s submarine fleet as well as U.S. coastal regions.*


----------



## CougarKing

There was another Bulava sub launch test last November as well:

Diplomat



> *Confirmed: ‘Russia’s Deadliest Sub’ Test Fires 2 Ballistic Missiles
> 
> A submerged Russian submarine successfully launched two ballistic missiles.*
> 
> After repeated delays, the Borei-class (aka Dolgorukiy-class), Project 955 fourth generation nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) Vladimir Monomakh successfully test fired two Bulava (RSM-56) ballistic missiles from a submerged position in the White Sea off the northwest coast of Russia, RT reports.
> 
> According to a press release by the Russian Defense Ministry, the two missiles successfully hit targets in the Kamchatka region in Russia’s Far East on November 15:
> 
> Salvo firing from a submerged position was made in accordance with the plan of combat training. The parameters trajectory of two ICBM “Bulava” worked normally. As confirmed by objective monitoring, the missile warheads successfully arrived at the Kura test site in Kamchatka.
> 
> The Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile, a variant of the land-based Topol-M SS-27,  is one of the most expensive Russian weapons programs and intended to be the cornerstone of the sea-based component of Russia’s nuclear triad.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

Bad news for Putin's navy:

*EDITED TO ADD: it's only after digging more that I realized this same incident happened back in 2012 and a number of sources were mistakenly resurrecting an old report. My apologies. *

UK Defence Journal



> *Russian aircraft carrier towed home after break down*
> 
> Posted By: George Allison November 17, 2015
> Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is seen here being towed home by a tug boat after breaking down in a storm. Kuznetsov is an aircraft cruiser (heavy aircraft-carrying missile cruiser in Russian classification) serving as the flagship of the Russian Navy.
> 
> She was originally commissioned in the Soviet Navy, and was intended to be the lead ship of her class, but the only other ship of her class, Varyag, was never completed or commissioned by the Soviet, Russian or Ukrainian navy. Later, this second hull was sold to the People’s Republic of China by Ukraine, completed in Dalian and launched as Liaoning.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## tomahawk6

The Russians used their new stealth cruise missile in strikes on IS targets,its the Kh-101.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/19/putin-blasts-syria-with-new-stealth-missile-and-shows-the-world-he-can-strike-from-1-700-miles-away.html#



> The Kh-101 long-range cruise missile, which reportedly packs an 800-pound warhead and can fly no less than 1,700 miles under satellite guidance, has been in development by Russia’s cash-strapped aerospace industry for three decades. Now that it’s apparently combat-ready, Moscow can claim to possess a global strike capability that, before, only the United States possessed.


----------



## CougarKing

I don't suppose there's probably an _Akula_ class SSN luring nearby to protect the cruiser _Moskva_ from sub-surface threats? Unless you think a single Helix on the CG's stern is adequate ASW defence.

RT



> *Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger*
> Published time: 24 Nov, 2015 18:16
> Edited time: 25 Nov, 2015 18:20
> 
> (...Full article at link above)


----------



## tomahawk6

The Russians arent happy with Israel either as they recently struck targets near Damascus.The cruiser is a message to both parties I suspect.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> I don't suppose there's probably an _Akula_ class SSN luring nearby to protect the cruiser _Moskva_ from sub-surface threats? Unless you think a single Helix on the CG's stern is adequate ASW defence.
> 
> RT



Or a nice quiet diesel boat...or two...or...


----------



## Colin Parkinson

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The Russians arent happy with Israel either as they recently struck targets near Damascus.The cruiser is a message to both parties I suspect.



Israel has been very quick to create a relationship with the Russian forces there and made it quite clear they won't target or shoot at Russian jets. Russia has also agreed to replace Turkish goods with Israeli. I suspect Putin understands Israel need to defend itself and attacks on sideshows by Hezbollah will be tolerated. In fact Putin will likely see any attempt to annoy or draw in Israel as a nuisance and distraction. Creating a better relationship between Russia and Israel is good business and strategic, Israel can help Russia on the tech side of things and Russia knows Israel wants make sure it has other friends with the unreliability shown by the recent US administration.


----------



## CougarKing

An escalation narrowly avoided?

From the BBC:



> *Russian warship fires warning shots at Turkish fishing boat*
> 
> 13 December 2015
> From the section Europe
> 
> Moscow summoned Turkish military attache over incident in Aegean, likely to deepen spat between two countries after Turkey downed Russian military plane on Syria mission.
> 
> Russia said on Sunday that one of its warships had fired warning shots at a Turkish vessel in the Aegean Sea to avoid a collision, and that it had summoned Turkey's military attache in Moscow over the incident. *The defence ministry said in a statement that the Turkish fishing vessel had failed to respond to earlier warnings on Sunday morning, but changed course after shots were fired from the destroyer Smitlivy. The ships were some 500 yards apart at the time.*
> 
> "Despite numerous attempts by the crew of the Smetlivy, the crew of the Turkish fishing boat did not make radio contact and did not respond to visual signals by semaphore or warning flares," the ministry said, adding that small arms had been used to fire the warning shots "from a range that is not lethal".
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

Navy Recognition



> * Russian Navy to Commission its New Frigate Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov Later Than Planned*
> 
> The Project 22350 frigate Admiral Gorshkov will join the Russian Navy only in 2016, Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief for Armament Viktor Bursuk said on Friday. The frigate Admiral Gorshkov is the lead ship in the class of Project 22350 vessels.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

How Russia will make up for the loss of the Ukrainian shipyards that built many of the former Soviet Navy's capital ships such as the carrier _Kuznetsov_ and her incomplete sister _Varyag_ before:

Navy Recognition



> *Russia's OSK Shipyard to Have Technological Capabilities to Build Aircraft Carriers from 2019*
> 
> The United Shipbuilding Corporation (OSK) will have the technological capabilities to build helicopter carriers and aircraft carriers starting from early 2019, OSK Director General Alexei Rakhmanov has told the Russia 24 TV broadcaster in an interview. "We will be prepared for helicopter carrier construction just like we are prepared for building aircraft carriers," he said.
> 
> The United Shipbuilding Corporation (OSK) will have the technological capabilities to build helicopter carriers and aircraft carriers starting from early 2019, OSK Director General Alexei Rakhmanov has told the Russia 24 TV broadcaster in an interview. "We will be prepared for helicopter carrier construction just like we are prepared for building aircraft carriers," he said. A nuclear powered Project 23000E Storm aircraft carrier may displace 80,000 to 85,000 tonnes with some 70 aircraft on board.
> 
> "Speaking of the technological capabilities of aircraft carrier construction, we expect them, most probably, by early 2019 once the planned modernization has been completed. This will afford us a degree of preparedness enabling us to build superships, be them civil or military," Rakhmanov added.
> 
> According to him, OSK possesses the aircraft carrier design and construction competences. "The personnel capabilities of the companies in Russia’s Northwest allow us to set up internal corporative ties that will ensure the transfer of the competences," the OSK director general said.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

An update on the Lavina class LHD mentioned in the aborted Russian Mistral thread:

Navy Recognition



> *Construction of Large Versatile Landing Ship for Russian Navy to begin in 2018*
> 
> *
> The construction of a large versatile landing ship is planned for 2018,* Captain 1st Rank Vladimir Tryapichnikov, chief, Shipbuilding Dept., Russian Navy, has told the Russian News Service radio in an interview.  The Lavina (Avalanche) project was first unveiled during the ARMY-2015 defense exhibiton.* Lead Ship of Project 11711 Ivan Gren Large Amphibious Assault Ship nearing completion.*
> 
> "Sure, such a large amphibious landing ship is being designed now. The foundation has been laid, and we have hashed out the requirements, and the implementation [of the design] will possibly commence in 2018, when we will launch the construction of the versatile landing ship," he said.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

One of the Russian Navy's newer vessels on trials:

Navy Recognition



> * Video: Russian Navy Frigate Admiral Gorshkov Project 22350 Testing its Weapons at Sea*
> 
> A crewmember released a rare video showing the latest Russian Navy frigate, the Admiral Gorshkov (lead ship of Project 22350), using its main gun and launching a Kalibr cruise missile during the recent live fire trials in the White Sea.
> 
> 
> The frigate Admiral Gorshkov is armed with two 3S-14 vertical launchers with eight missiles each of the Kalibr system. The missile load comprises 3M-14 (NATO reporting name: SS-N-30) missiles to attack ground targets and 3M-54 (SS-N-27) anti-ship missiles.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

Turkey keeping track of Russian fleet movements:

*Turkish Navy MELTEM II CASA CN-235 Maritime Patrol Aircraft Tracked Russian Navy Corvette*

Navy Recognition



> 18 February 2016
> 
> According to Russian media, a Turkish Navy Meltem II CASA CN-235 Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) tracked two Russian Navy Black Sea fleet surface vessels during their transit to the Mediterranean Sea. The two vessels are likely Project 21631 small missile ship (Buyan-M class corvette) _Zelyony Dol_ and the ocean-going mine-sweeper _Kovrovets_. We reported about their deployment last week.
> 
> *Thales* was the prime contractor for the Meltem II programme, which called for the delivery of six maritime patrol aircraft for the Turkish Navy and three maritime surveillance aircraft for the Turkish Coast Guard. The aircraft are based on modified CASA CN-235 platforms.



Btw, isn't the CN-235 is basically a shorter C-295 with the engines from the Black Hawk helicopter.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

Not quite: The C-295, which came after, is a longer version of the C-235. And it does not have the same engines as the Blackhawk: C-235 -> GE CT7-9C3's; BH -> GE T700-GE701C.

And for the Turks to be "tracking" Russian ships that basically are around Turkey's coasts is not only "not" unusual, but rather normal. Where I them, I would do the same regardless of the tense diplomatic situation between the two countries.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> *Turkish Navy MELTEM II CASA CN-235 Maritime Patrol Aircraft Tracked Russian Navy Corvette* for a very short time before having to RTB for more gas...



 ;D

Well, they ARE a baby-MPA...


----------



## CougarKing

Another upgrade for the _Kirovs_: I wonder how much longer these Russian "battlecruisers" will soldier on considering their age?

Navy Recognition



> *3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Missile in Development Testing for Russian Navy Kirov-class Cruiser*
> 
> Russian cutting-edge hypersonic missile 3M22 of the 3K22 Zircon system is in the development trials. The Project 11442 (NATO reporting name: Kirov-class) Pyotr Veliky nuclear-powered missile cruiser will carry the type following its upgrade, a shipbuilding industry source told TASS on Friday.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

2nd _Kirov_ class resurrected:

Foxtrot Alpha



> *Russia's Kirov-Class Battlecruiser Fleet Is Expanding And Becoming Far More Capable*
> Tyler Rogoway
> Yesterday 8:58pmFiled to: Ships
> 
> (...SNIPPED)
> 
> Only one of the four Kirov class ships ever built has remained in active duty since its commissioning in the mid-1990s, that ship being the Pyotr Veliky, the flagship of the Northern Fleet.
> 
> As part of the increasingly belligerent recent Kremlin plan to revitalize the rusting Russian Navy*, ship builders have been hard at work bringing a second Kirov class battlecruiser, the Admiral Nakhimov, back to life after it had been rusting away in storage for a decade and a half. She’s getting overhauled and is set to be returned to the fleet in 2019.*
> 
> At that time, the Admiral Nakhimov will take the place of the Pyotr Veliky, which is slated to enter dry dock for three years where it too will get a deep overhaul and refitting just like its sister ship.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## tomahawk6

I dont know the Russian word for Phoenix but they should rename Kirov.I wonder how well she was mothballed ?When done they will have sunk hundreds of millions back into the two ships.I just hope they dont sell them to the PRC.


----------



## CougarKing

Why so close to France?

Navy Recognition



> *French Navy Detected a Russian Navy SSBN in the Bay of Biscay in January*
> 
> According French weekly news magazine L'Obs citing a senior French source, the French Navy (Marine Nationale) would have spotted a Russian nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) in the Bay of Biscay, off the French coast in early January. Contacted by L'Obs, the French Ministry of Defence didn't deny the information.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

Another Akula class SSN joins the Russian Pacific Fleet:

Navy Recognition



> *Russian Navy Akula-class submarine Kuzbass (K-419) to Re-Enter Service by Late March*
> 
> The Project 971 (Akula-class) nuclear-powered submarine Kuzbass (K-419) under repairs and upgrade at the Zvezda Shipyard in Russia’s Far East since 2009 will become operational with the Navy before the end of March, the Russian Defense Ministry’s press office said.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## tomahawk6

Russia hopes to sell three of their new Project 11356 frigates to India.Three more are in the works all with Ukrainian engines.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-looks-load-lethal-new-frigates-india-15491


----------



## CougarKing

They have an "Auxiliary Fleet" holiday?  ???

Navy Recognition



> *Russian Navy’s auxiliary fleet to receive 14 support vessels in 2016*
> 
> The Russian Navy’s auxiliary fleet will receive 14 new support vessels in 2016, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Dmitry Bulgakov said on Tuesday. "In all, 14 support vessels will join Russian fleets this year," Bulgakov said on the occasion of Auxiliary Fleet Day.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## tomahawk6

The new hypersonic SSM Zircon is to be fitted on their Kirov class battle cruisers.The USN will need to counter this potent weapon either with a missile or laser.

http://blogs.plymouth.ac.uk/dcss/2016/02/28/russias-kirov-class-battle-cruisers-are-getting-3m22-zircon-hypersonic-anti-ship-missiles/

The Russian Navy will upgrade its two nuclear-powered Project 11442 Kirov-class battle cruisers, Pyotr Velikyi and its sister ship Admiral Nakhimov, with a new under development hypersonic anti-ship cruise missile.

The new Mach 5-capable ramjet engine equipped 3M22 missile of the 3K22 Zircon missile system would replace the ship’s existing 390-mile range P-700 Granit supersonic anti-ship missile.

According to a Russian defense industry source, “The battle cruiser Pyotr Veliky will start repairs in the third or fourth quarter of 2019. Repairs and upgrade are due for completion in late 2022, the ship to be equipped with Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missiles”.


----------



## tomahawk6

Russia will soon be starting on a new diesel sub called Kalina.Where will Putin find the money for his defense buildup ?

http://www.nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/revealed-russias-lethal-new-kalina-class-submarine-15544

Russia is set to start construction of its new Kalina-class diesel-electric submarine after the last two Lada-class vessels are completed. The Project 677 Lada-class—which Moscow is terminating after three units are completed—has proven to be a disappointment.

“The two Lada-class Project 677 submarines will be delivered as scheduled — in 2018 and 2019,” a spokesman for United Shipbuilding Corporation told RIA Novosti. “Then the construction of the new non-nuclear Kalina-class submarines will be launched.”


----------



## MarkOttawa

Not a nice development for NATO, NORAD:



> Russia to Arm Attack Submarines With New Long-Range Missile
> The Russian Navy will arm a number of attack submarines with the Kalibr missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia plans to upgrade its fleet of Project 971 Akula-class multi-role nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSN) with 3M-54 Kalibr (NATO designation: SS-N-27A “Sizzler”) missiles, the head of the Russian Navy Training Department, Rear Admiral Viktor Kochemazov, told a Russian radio station in Moscow this week, Sputnik News reports.
> 
> “The Kalibr cruise missile is a highly efficient weapon as was amply proved by the recent launches from the Rostov-on-Don submarine. Kalibr missiles will be installed on the modernized Project 971 submarines,” Kochemazov said. The missile is “facing bright vistas in terms of further development,” he added.
> 
> The Rostov-on-Don submarine the admiral is referring to is an improved Project 636.3 Kilo-class (aka Vashavyanka-class) diesel-electric submarine purportedly one of the quietest diesel subs in the world. It is primarily designed for anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface-ship warfare (ASuW).
> 
> On December 9 2015, the Rostov-on-Don launched four 3M-54 Kalibr cruise missiles from an underwater position in the Mediterranean against targets around near Raqqah in Syria. It is likely that the admiral was referencing the December 9 cruise missile strikes in his remarks.
> 
> The 3M-54 Kalibr is a supersonic cruise missile available in land-attack, anti-ship, and anti-submarine variants. It is specifically designed to evade active air defenses and electronic countermeasures.
> 
> The Russian Navy currently operates five Akula-class SSN’s in the Pacific and six in the Northern Fleet. These include Akula I, improved Akula, and Akula II variants of the class. How many of the vessels are in fact operational is uncertain. Some analysts estimate operational readiness of the Akula-class boats at somewhere between 40 to 70 percent...
> http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/russia-to-arm-attack-submarines-with-new-long-range-missile/



Plus:



> Russian Subs Are Reheating a Cold War Chokepoint
> As the GIUK gap returns to importance, NATO must look to regenerate its anti-submarine forces.
> http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2016/03/russian-subs-are-reheating-cold-war-chokepoint/126428/
> 
> Russian Sub Combat Patrols Nearly Doubled in 2015
> http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/russian-sub-combat-patrols-nearly-doubled-in-2015/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

Got to be careful here, Mark.

Putin is of the old KGB school of disinformation. 

Russia has been announcing all sorts of "we are going to ..." things lately. They are in the future, at an uncertain time, and many for unprovable/un-disprovable actions (such as we will put missile "x" on submarines). The real issue that intelligence services will be addressing before we get all worked up is "Can Russia actually fund these plans and put them in effect?"


----------



## MarkOttawa

Oldgateboatdriver: Well, lots of official concern about Russkie subs (RCN/RCAF implications--getting closer to back to the real Cold War?):



> Russia Bolsters Its Submarine Fleet, and Tensions With U.S. Rise
> 
> Russian attack submarines, the most in two decades, are prowling the coastlines of Scandinavia and Scotland, the Mediterranean Sea and the North Atlantic in what Western military officials say is a significantly increased presence aimed at contesting American and NATO undersea dominance.
> 
> Adm. Mark Ferguson, the United States Navy’s top commander in Europe, said last fall that the intensity of Russian submarine patrols had risen by almost 50 percent over the past year, citing public remarks by the Russian Navy chief, Adm. Viktor Chirkov. Analysts say that tempo has not changed since then.
> 
> The patrols are the most visible sign of a renewed interest in submarine warfare by President Vladimir V. Putin, whose government has spent billions of dollars for new classes of diesel and nuclear-powered attack submarines that are quieter, better armed and operated by more proficient crews than in the past...
> 
> “We’re back to the great powers competition,” Adm. John M. Richardson, the chief of naval operations, said in an interview...
> 
> In Naples, at the headquarters of the United States Navy’s European operations, including the Sixth Fleet, commanders for the first time in decades are having to closely monitor Russian submarine movements through the maritime choke points separating Greenland, Iceland and the United Kingdom, the G.I.U.K. Gap, which during the Cold War were crucial to the defense of Europe...
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/world/europe/russia-bolsters-submarine-fleet-and-tensions-with-us-rise.html?



Sub-launched cruise missile threat to North America also a worry--see near end here:



> US Worrying Seriously About Russian Cruise Missiles
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/mark-collins-us-worrying-seriously-about-russian-cruise-missiles



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## CougarKing

I made sure this was not merely a repost of a 2012 article like the last time I mistakenly posted about this carrier breaking down:

IHS Jane's 360



> *Russia to modernise sole aircraft carrier in 2017*
> 
> Russia's sole aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov , will undergo an extensive overhaul and re-fit from early 2017, sources within Russia's defence industrial complex have told the Russian news agency TASS.
> The sources said a contract was due to be signed soon with Russia's United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) and that the overhaul work will involve a top-to-bottom modernisation of the carrier.
> 
> The modernisation of the carrier will take place in two phases, according to the reports. The initial contract will be for the configuration development that dictates which of the carrier's systems will be upgraded or replaced. "The Ministry of Defence [MoD] contract with USC on the aircraft carrier's repair and modernisation is worth several billion roubles, is carried out under the technical oversight of the Nevskoye Design Bureau, and is now ready - it will be signed in June," the source stated.


----------



## tomahawk6

A new class of destroyer is in the works called Project 23560 Lider.The Leader Class is being called a destroyer,but whats in a name right ?  8)
I am not sure how Russia would afford 12 of this class,but I guess we will see how many actually get built.I would bet less than half that number.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-set-build-12-new-monster-warships-armed-200-missiles-16427

The new warship is classified as a destroyer but will displace 17,500 metric tons, with a length of 200m (656.2ft) and a beam of 20m (65.6ft)—making it larger than most World War II-era heavy cruisers. Indeed, the Leader-class—which is expected to be armed with no fewer than 200 missiles—will be the second largest modern surface combatants built after the four massive 28,000-ton nuclear-powered Project 1144 Orlan battle-cruisers (better known as the Kirov-class).


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

Well, that would put them in the same size class as the Zumwalt's, so calling them destroyers is not too much of a stretch.


----------



## Lumber

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Well, that would put them in the same size class as the Zumwalt's, so calling them destroyers is not too much of a stretch.



Their new frigates are pretty capable as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if they realize how expensive 12 new _Battlecruisers_ will actually be, and decide to spend the money on having more vessels.

That being, Russians haven't exactly been known for austerity...


----------



## MarkOttawa

A top US admiral is worried--implications for necessary size of MARLANT CSC fleet?  Note also cruise missiles--NORAD implications?



> Admiral Warns: Russian Subs Waging Cold War-Style ‘Battle of the Atlantic’
> 
> Russia has stepped up its submarine operations and is regularly probing U.S. anti-submarine networks in a new “Battle of the Atlantic,” the commander of U.S. 6th Fleet said.
> 
> In an article for the U.S. Naval Institute’s June issue of Proceedings,
> http://www.usni.org/node/87164#footnotes
> 
> Vice Adm. James Foggo III outlined a new era in U.S. and Russian submarine warfare he dubs “The Fourth Battle of the Atlantic.”
> 
> In his piece, Foggo compares the current uptick in Russian submarine posture to the great submarine battles between the Allies and the Germans in World War I and World War II and the Soviets and the U.S. during the Cold War.
> 
> “Once again, an effective, skilled, and technologically advanced Russian submarine force is challenging us. Russian submarines are prowling the Atlantic, testing our defenses, confronting our command of the seas, and preparing the complex underwater battlespace to give them an edge in any future conflict,” Foggo wrote.
> “Not only have Russia’s actions and capabilities increased in alarming and confrontational ways, its national-security policy is aimed at challenging the United States and its NATO allies and partners.”
> 
> Since the Russian seizure of Crimea in 2014, Russian Navy surface ships, aircraft and submarines have been much more active in presence operations – particularly the submarines.
> 
> Russian officials have been open about increased submarine operations over the last two years. Russian Navy head Adm. Viktor Chirkov said in March of 2015 that submarines operations have increased by 50 percent...
> https://news.usni.org/2015/03/19/russian-navy-chief-submarine-patrols-up-50-percent-over-last-year
> 
> In addition to nuclear submarines, the Russians are improving the technological capability of their diesel-electric submarines, including the ability for Russian Kilos to launch long-range Kalibr NK cruise missiles.
> https://news.usni.org/2016/06/03/admiral-warns-russian-subs-waging-cold-war-style-battle-atlantic
> 
> “These are the platforms that are the most challenging for us to deal with because of their inherent stealth,” Foggo wrote.
> 
> “As demonstrated last December by Kalibr launches into Syria from the Eastern Mediterranean, Russian leaders will use such weapons at will, without the same qualms we have about collateral damage.”
> 
> All told, Foggo outlines an “arc of steel” of Russian submarine strength from the Arctic to the Black Sea.
> 
> “Combined with extensive and frequent submarine patrols throughout the North Atlantic and the Norwegian Sea, and forward-deployed forces in Syria, Russia has the capability to hold nearly all NATO maritime forces at risk,” he wrote.
> https://news.usni.org/2016/06/03/admiral-warns-russian-subs-waging-cold-war-style-battle-atlantic



As for cruise missiles see US Army's JLENS:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/jlens-coordinating-cruise-missile-defense-and-more-02921/

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## CougarKing

Meanwhile we still don't have a "Diefenbreaker" : 

Defense News



> *Russia Unveils New Navy Icebreaker in Arctic Military Focus*
> Agence France-Presse 1:12 p.m. EDT June 11, 2016
> 
> 
> ST. PETERSBURG — Russia on Friday floated a new icebreaker for its navy, the first in about 45 years, in a further sign of Moscow's growing military focus on the Arctic.
> 
> Built at the Admiralty Shipyards in Saint Petersburg, Russia's second largest city and home to its Baltic fleet, the Ilya Muromets is the first of a series of icebreakers ordered by the defense ministry in recent years.
> 
> "In 2017 this icebreaker will join the Northern Fleet to ensure our priorities in the northern basin," Admiral Igor Zvarich, who heads the technical department of the Russian navy, said during the ceremony.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

From last April:

Mil.Today



> *Russian Nuke Sub Burned 600 Miles off the US Border*
> 30 April 2016 12:01 Rubric: Russia, Industry
> 
> The fire raged for about 10 hours on the Russian nuclear-powered submarine Krasnoyarsk being disposed at the Kamchatka peninsula. That was the third similar accident happened in the recent three years to Project 949A Antey submarines.
> 
> All these fires were caused by either repair or disposal works on the atomic subs. In 2013, fire teams were sent to the Zvezda shipyard in the Far East, where SSN Tomsk was under technical recovery. The fire broke out during welding works with burning of inter-hull heat/sound insulation material between the outer casing and the strength hull. Fifteen military servicemen taking part in the firefighting activities suffered.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

More Cold War Deja vu?

Defense News



> *Latest Warship Encounter Brings Russian Protest*
> Christopher P. Cavas, Defense News 6:49 p.m. EDT June 28, 2016
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON — The latest Russian-US kerfuffle at sea appears to feature a US warship making a close-in, high-speed pass on a Russian ship — but there may be more to the story than what a one-minute and two-second video shows.
> 
> The incident took place June 17 in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, and involved the US destroyer Gravely and the Russian frigate Yaroslav Mudry.
> 
> In a video posted June 28 on YouTube by the Russian news agency Sputnik, the Gravely is seen coming up on the Mudry’s port, or left, side, on a roughly parallel course. The Gravely then appears to pick up even more speed and maneuver directly ahead of the Russian, pulling away and rocking the frigate with its wake.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

If the picture at the top of the article is actually taken from the Russian ship (and it does appear to be), this is a pretty standard warning pass to tell the other guy to "get the fu%# away from my carrier".

Nothing to see here, other than the Russians playing their usual games and trying to pass it off as coming from the other guy.


----------



## PuckChaser

Article covers off the whole story, RU ship was 5nm from Truman, and Gravely moved in between them because they assessed it was trying to interfere with flight ops. The Russian ship also flew a false "restricted maneuvering" signal.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Meanwhile, with RUS's Team Baltic ...


> The admiral in charge of Russia’s Baltic Fleet has been fired along with his senior officers over unspecified flaws, a sweeping purge that has no precedent in the nation’s post-Soviet history.
> 
> Online news portal Fontanka.ru reported Thursday that 50 senior officers of the fleet were fired alongside its chief. It said the purges followed alleged cover-up of a submarine accident, flaws in recruitment and military construction projects.
> 
> The Defense Ministry announced the purge in a terse statement late Wednesday. It said the fleet commander, Vice Adm. Viktor Kravchuk, his chief of staff, Rear Adm. Sergei Popov, and an undisclosed number of other senior officers of the fleets have been fired over serious flaws in combat training and their failure to take proper care of personnel ...


RUS Info-machine bio for the outgoing boss in English is still up - for _now_, anyway (archived copy here) -- more on the Baltic Fleet boss' demise here via Google News.

The new boss - Vice-Admiral Alexander Nosatov - seems to be coming up from D/Comd of Black Sea Fleet.


----------



## The Bread Guy

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Meanwhile, with RUS's Team Baltic ...
> 
> 
> 
> The admiral in charge of Russia’s Baltic Fleet has been fired along with his senior officers over unspecified flaws, a sweeping purge that has no precedent in the nation’s post-Soviet history.
> 
> Online news portal Fontanka.ru reported Thursday that 50 senior officers of the fleet were fired alongside its chief. It said the purges followed alleged cover-up of a submarine accident, flaws in recruitment and military construction projects.
> 
> The Defense Ministry announced the purge in a terse statement late Wednesday. It said the fleet commander, Vice Adm. Viktor Kravchuk, his chief of staff, Rear Adm. Sergei Popov, and an undisclosed number of other senior officers of the fleets have been fired over serious flaws in combat training and their failure to take proper care of personnel ...
> 
> 
> 
> RUS Info-machine bio for the outgoing boss in English is still up - for _now_, anyway (archived copy here) -- more on the Baltic Fleet boss' demise here via Google News.
> 
> The new boss - Vice-Admiral Alexander Nosatov - seems to be coming up from D/Comd of Black Sea Fleet.
Click to expand...

And who's taking over Team Baltic in the interim?


> Former Ukrainian admiral, who joined Russian army during the illegal annexation of Crimea, has allegedly become a new chief of Russia’s Baltic fleet. Sergey Yeliseyev has temporarily replaced Viktor Kravchuk, earlier sacked for incompetency and misinformation about current state of affairs.
> 
> (...)
> 
> Before joining Russia, Yeliseyev was the deputy chief of Ukraine’s Naval forces. Fontanka.ru said, this was the first time a former Ukrainian officer was assigned as a commander in Russian army.
> 
> Yeliseyev is a wanted man in Ukraine. Kyiv accuses him of treason, desertion and several other crimes. According to the country’s Prosecution, he will be put on trial in absentia in Ukraine’s court in the nearest future.


----------



## CougarKing

Naval purges aside, will we finally see the Russians conducting carrier-based air strikes against ISIS as well?

Daily Mail



> *Russia to send its largest warship to Syria as Putin prepares final push to destroy ISIS*
> 
> Admiral Kuzetnov battleship is equipped with fighter helicopters and jets
> Aircraft carrier will be based close to Syria so troops can attack and return
> Move comes in the wake of attacks on the weekend in Baghdad and Dhaka
> The 305m ship will lead Russia's Navy presence in the Mediterranean Sea
> 
> By Gareth Davies For Mailonline
> 
> Published: 10:29 GMT, 4 July 2016 | Updated: 12:56 GMT, 4 July 2016
> 
> VLADIMIR Putin is preparing to send Russia's biggest battleship to Syria to crush ISIS at source.
> 
> The Admiral Kuzetnov is poised for dispatch in the autumn equipped with jet fighters and armoured helicopters ready to fight the terrorist group.
> 
> The move comes after the attacks on Bangladesh, where 20 hostages were hacked to death in a Dhaka restaurant, and Baghdad where 125 people were killed in a car bomb in the Iraqi capital.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## Journeyman

> ....as Putin prepares final push to destroy ISIS



      :rofl:     Yep, that should do it.  

Of course, the overwhelming percentage of their airstrikes to date haven't been against ISIS anyway, but on Western-trained, anti-Assad troops.  I doubt if they've swapped out any targeteers.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Putin fires every CO in the Baltic Fleet for refusing to confront Western ships.  Full story and photos at link below.



> Vladimir Putin has sacked every single commander in Russia's Baltic fleet in what has been described as a 'Stalin-style' purge.
> 
> Up to 50 officers of the fleet were fired alongside Vice Admiral Viktor Kravchuk and his chief of staff Rear Admiral Sergei Popov after they reportedly refused to follow orders to confront Western ships.
> 
> Reports in Russia also suggested the purges followed an alleged cover-up of a submarine accident, flaws in recruitment and military construction projects.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3685805/Putin-sacks-commander-Baltic-fleet-Stalin-style-purge-brass-refusal-follow-orders-confront-Western-ships.html#ixzz4EC6gXARv
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


----------



## The Bread Guy

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Putin fires every CO in the Baltic Fleet for *refusing to confront Western ships*.


And now we know, (at least a bit more of) the REST of the story -- thanks for sharing the latest.


----------



## MarkOttawa

Major responsibility for CP-140s/Halifax-class--eventually CSCs; will two RCN east-coast subs be relevant?



> NATO and Russian Sub Threat: World Needs More Canada
> 
> Further to this post,
> 
> USN “Admiral Warns: Russian Subs Waging Cold War-Style ‘Battle of the Atlantic’”–and RCN?
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/06/03/mark-collins-usn-admiral-warns-russian-subs-waging-cold-war-style-battle-of-the-atlantic-and-rcn/
> 
> guess what country is overlooked by a major US think tank...
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/07/25/mark-collins-nato-and-russian-sub-threat-world-needs-more-canada/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## GK .Dundas

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Major responsibility for CP-140s/Halifax-class--eventually CSCs; will two RCN east-coast subs be relevant?
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa


 I have no doubt that SSK's would be quite relevant now sufficient numbers that is another question entirely.


----------



## MarkOttawa

Indeed number(s) the question.  Which also leads to question of what vessels--subs and surface--should be based east coast vs west in terms of assessed threats rather than politics of bases.

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## tomahawk6

Russia's ace in the whole,its small auxiliary submarine force.Deep diving subs armed with ballistic missiles.One of these ships is the Losharik,which can dive several thousand meters.They are not operated by the Navy.


https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/most-shadowy-part-russias-navy-162100226.html


----------



## tomahawk6

The new Gorshkov class frigate has been delayed due to problems with its SAM's.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-answer-the-aegis-missile-defense-system-big-trouble-17199

There have long been reports that the ongoing delays with the commissioning of the Admiral Gorshkov frigate have to do with defects in its air defense systems. These were thought to be primarily related to problems with integration of the Poliment Redut air defense missile system. The Poliment system was designed to be Russia’s answer to AEGIS, with four phased array antennas that are able to track 16 targets at the same time. The Redut system consists of four or eight vertical launch systems that launch three types of missiles. The 9M100 is the short-range missile, with a range of up to 15km. The 9M96M is the medium-range missile, with a range of 40-50km. Finally, the 9M96 long-range missile is supposed to have a range of up to 150km.


----------



## CougarKing

A new SLBM for the _Husky_ class SSBNs?

Navy Recognition



> *Russia ordered the development of a new SLBM submarine-launched ballistic missile*
> 
> Russia’s defense industry is developing a sophisticated submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM), according to the Izvestia daily. The Makeyev State Missile Center has landed a contract for the development of a new ballistic missile. In all probability, the missile is intended to equip future fifth-generation submarines (Huksy-class).
> 
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## Colin Parkinson

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Russia's ace in the whole,its small auxiliary submarine force.Deep diving subs armed with ballistic missiles.One of these ships is the Losharik,which can dive several thousand meters.They are not operated by the Navy.
> 
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/most-shadowy-part-russias-navy-162100226.html



_In the past, vessels able to dive miles underwater were used for research purposes, but Russia's Losharik is carried by a converted SSBN ballistic-missile submarine._

basically it carries a specialist sub in lieu of the missiles. It's tasks are likely to take out listening systems, telecommunication, rescue and potential to deploy mines in deep water that could later be activated.


----------



## CougarKing

Pics of mobile coastal defense artillery units at the link below:

Navy Recognition



> *Russia to Activate a Coastal Defense Division Across from Alaska in 2018*
> 
> The Russian Defense Ministry is planning the activation of a coastal defense division in Chukotka in 2018, the minister, Sergei Shoigu, has told journalists. "A coastal defense division is planned for activation in the Chukotka area of operations in 2018," he said.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## CougarKing

_Priboi_ class LHDs??  ???

Navy Recognition



> *Krylov: Russian Navy needs four general-purpose LHD amphibious assault ships*
> 
> The Russian Navy is in need of four versatile amphibious assault ships, of which one is needed for the standing naval force in the Mediterranean, Yuri Yeryomin, chief, Military-Technical Cooperation Dept., Krylov State Research Center, believes.
> 
> "The Northern Fleet needs a ship like that, and the Pacific Fleet needs two. Given the growing importance of the Mediterranean basin, where we have a standing naval force, one ship should be afforded to the Black Sea Fleet, even though she is unnecessary to the fleet itself. There is no sense in building a ship in the class for the Baltic Fleet either," Yeryomin said at the Army 2016 forum.
> 
> The Krylov Center has worked out the concept of the Priboi amphibious landing ship with an estimated displacement of 23,000 tons. The ship is to carry 900 Marines with their kit and an air wing of 16 assault helicopters.
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## tomahawk6

The UK has suddenly woke up to the revolutionary design of the Armata.Maybe the next gen tank that the West build will be more like Armata or perhaps better.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/russian-tank-armata-revolutionary-design/2016/11/06/id/757323/






Maybe an antigravity tank


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Article Link

Russia’s Naval Battle Group Moves to Syria: Demonstrating Power Projection Capability

NATO is concerned about the movement of Russian naval battle group on its way to the Mediterranean.

The ships are being carefully monitored by NATO ships and aircraft.

Media in NATO countries have raised ballyhoo about it.

The reaction is negatively emotional.

The ships’ movement is covered like an unexpected event, though the news was first announced this summer.

Perhaps, many believed that Russia’s maritime power projection capability should not be taken seriously. Now those who thought so are proven wrong.

Reuters cited a diplomat saying on condition of anonymity


«They are deploying all of the Northern fleet and much of the Baltic fleet in the largest surface deployment since the end of the Cold War».

«This is not a friendly port call. In two weeks, we will see a crescendo of air attacks on Aleppo as part of Russia’s strategy to declare victory there», the diplomat said.

The Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is sailing to Syria to serve as a platform for carrying out airstrikes against terrorists until at least February 2017. The ship can carry more than 50 aircraft. This time the air group’s configuration includes 15 Sukhoi Su-33 all-weather air superiority jets and Mikoyan MiG-29K/KUB multirole fighters, and 10 Kamov Ka-52K, Ka-27, and Ka-31 helicopters.

The NATO diplomat’s affirmation that “all of the Northern Fleet” joined by Baltic Fleet ships is on the way to the Mediterranean is an exaggeration, to put it mildly. The flattop is escorted by seven other ships as part of battlegroup, including Pyotr Velikiy nuclear battlecruiser, two large anti-submarine warships – the Severomorsk and Vice-Admiral Kulakov – and four support vessels.

They will join some 10 other Russian vessels already off Syria. The Baltic Fleet ships are not going to the Mediterranean. Two new Steregushchiy class Project 20380 corvettes –Boikiy and Stoikiy – just joined the group for joint exercises in the Northern Sea – nothing special, it’s a routine procedure for an ocean going navy.

Russian Zvezda TV channel reported that several submarines would probably move from the Atlantic to escort the battle group.

Strategic aviation will boost the group’s air cover capability while on the move.

True, the Air Space Forces have shouldered the burden of the operation in Syria striking most of the targets with aircraft either based in Syria or flying from bases in Russia itself. But the Navy also has a role to play in the war effort. The operation in Syria has highlighted advances in integration among the branches of the military.

The Navy provided sealift, as well as long-range air defense with the S-300 system carried by Slava-class cruiser Moskva, the Black Sea Fleet’s flagship, in the first half of the campaign. Much has been said about the demonstrated capability of Russian warships to fire long range cruise missiles at land targets in Syria from both the Caspian Sea and the Mediterranean. So far, the naval missions have been mainly carried out by the Black Sea Fleet. The group sailing to Syria is homeported in the Northern Fleet.

This will be the first ever combat deployment of Admiral Kuznetsov and the battlecruiser – the largest surface ship in the world, excluding aircraft carriers. Deployed near the Syrian shore, the multi-mission naval group will beef up the air strike power by increasing the number of jets and provide extra capabilities to counter air and submarine threats. Sea-based MIG-29K warplanes will also go through their first combat trial.

The carrier’s naval aircraft may test the new X-38 missiles in combat action. Unlike NATO ships of the same type, Admiral Kuznetsov is well armed with anti-ship, air defense, artillery and anti-submarine warfare systems. Russia is the only country in the world with such a heavily armed aircraft carrier, which does not need many escort ships – it can defend itself against a wide range of threats. More importantly, when the battle group reaches Syria, the Russian Navy will rival the firepower of the US Sixth Fleet in the region.

Few nations in the world possess the capability to deploy an aircraft carrier group at great distances from their shores. It makes Russia a member of the elite club to include the US and France and, to a limited extent, India and China. Some countries have amphibious and other air-capable ships, that can launch some aircraft, but they are no match for aircraft carriers.

Other nations will closely watch the Admiral Kuznetsov’s performance. India will reportedly shortly announce a tendering procedure for building its fourth aircraft carrier. This year, the Krylov State Research Centre, a Russian shipbuilding institute, held talks with Indian partners about eventually buying a version of Moscow’s future nuclear-powered carrier (image left), known as Project 23000E.

The project was first revealed to the public in June at the Army-2015 show near Moscow, where a scale model of the ship was exhibited. Russia will have many more chances if Admiral Kuznetsov and its sea-borne aircraft prove to be effective in combat conditions. If signed, the deal will become a boon for Russia’s ship-building industry.

Russian warships became a very rare sight after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Overseas deployments were marked as signal events because of their rarity. Those days have become history now with the Navy ensign, the St. Andrew’s Cross, increasingly seen in the world’s harbors as a sign of Russia’s clearly visible expanded ocean presence.

Before Syria the Russian Navy had already acquired combat experience fighting pirates in the Indian Ocean near the Somalia’s coast. Today, the nation’s naval power is on the rise making great strides ahead to showcase drastic advances in its ability to carry out expeditionary operations.


----------



## tomahawk6

Russia's Squall torpedo is once again in the news.Very fast.Very noisy.It may also have been the cause of the Kursk disaster.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-has-super-torpedo-kills-submarines-200-miles-per-hour-18917


Imagine the sudden revelation of a weapon that can suddenly go six times faster than its predecessors. The shock of such a breakthrough system would turn an entire field of warfare on its head, as potential adversaries scrambled to deploy countermeasures to a new weapon they are defenseless against. While a lull in great power competition delayed the impact of this new technology, the so-called “supercavitating torpedo” may be about to take the world by storm.


----------



## SeaKingTacco

This article is a rehash of some pretty old information.

While the skval may be useful in a close range knife fight where you pretty much can't miss what you are shooting at (they had better not miss, because a very accurate datum has just been created) if there is a dipping helo or an MPA anywhere close, they are dead after taking that shot.

Not the end of the world.


----------



## MarkOttawa

Battle of the Atlantic _redux_--RCN?:



> Navy facing heaviest Russian activity since Cold War says First Sea Lord
> 
> The Royal Navy is facing its greatest challenge from Russian submarines and warships for more than 25 years, the First Sea Lord has told his sailors.
> 
> Adml Sir Philip Jones said the Navy was dealing with the highest level of activity from Vladimir Putin’s fleet since the end of the Cold War, even as it has to make “difficult” cuts to equipment.
> 
> The message from the head of the Royal Navy comes as British warships are again being readied to escort the Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov past the UK as it returns from its bombing campaign against Syrian rebels.
> 
> But naval sources said high-profile deployments by Russia’s surface fleet were of far less concern than a sharp increase in Russian submarine missions in waters north of Scotland.
> 
> British frigates and submarines, backed by Nato allies, are waging an increasingly intense cat-and-mouse game trying to find and track the Russian vessels.
> 
> Russia analysts fear the jump in submarine activity to levels not seen since the 1980s is accompanied by increased efforts to spy on Britain’s nuclear deterrent vessels, based at Faslane.
> 
> In a New Year message to the Navy, Sir Philip said: “In northern Europe and the Baltic, we are responding to the highest level of Russian naval activity since the end of the Cold War.”..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The frigate HMS Kent shadowing the Russian submarine Stary Oskol Credit: MoD_



Last year:



> USN “Admiral Warns: Russian Subs Waging Cold War-Style ‘Battle of the Atlantic’”–and RCN?
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/06/03/mark-collins-usn-admiral-warns-russian-subs-waging-cold-war-style-battle-of-the-atlantic-and-rcn/comment-page-1/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## tomahawk6

Russia is working on a new 100 megaton Tsunami nuke. 

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/03/russias-developing-100-megaton-dirty.html

"The Russian government daily Rossiyskaya Gazeta reported that to achieve ‘extensive radioactive contamination' the weapon ‘could envisage using the so-called cobalt bomb, a nuclear weapon designed to produce enhanced amounts of radioactive fallout compared to a regular atomic warhead,'" Schneider said.

Retired Air Force Gen. Robert Kehler, former commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, has said development of the underwater nuclear strike vehicle is one element of a "troubling" Russian strategic nuclear buildup.

Rep. Mike Rogers (R., Ala.), chairman of the House subcommittee on strategic forces, has said that the Russians assert the nuclear drone submarine will be used to target coastal areas and inflict "unacceptable damage to a country's territory by creating areas of wide radioactive contamination that would be unsuitable for military, economic, or other activity for long periods of time."


----------



## CBH99

Legitimate question...

Wouldn't a weapon designed to maximize radiation-related damage & radioactive fallout actually have significant negative effects worldwide?

If we look at the aftermath of Fukushima, we've found evidence of radioactive contamination/isotopes even in waters here in Canada.  And that was from a reactor that, as far as I know, was permanently damaged & unable to be restarted.

If the damage from this type of incident can still be found creeping up throughout the rest of the world several years later, wouldn't a nuclear weapon such as this also have an adverse effect on Russia also?  (Water flows, wind blows...only a matter of time until your breathing & drinking your own radioactive fallout)

??


----------



## a_majoor

Things like supercavitating torpedoes, massive nuclear weapons and ultra deep diving submariens seem almostr to be artifacts of the Cold War being trotted out yet again to confuse or demoralize Western audiences. Supercavitation has been u8nder active investigation by the USN as well, including such things as specially shaped bullets allowing helicopters to fire at targets (like mines) underwater. I recall a flurry of articles coming out in the 2000's(?) touting supercavitation as the "next big thing", but practical issues like guiding the beast once it has entered the bubble still seem to defy practical solutions.

Massive devices like the Tsar Bomba are huge resource hogs with fairly limited utility (if the lead casing had been replaced by a uranium one, the estimated yield would have been 100 megatons, but the bomber could barely carry it and escape the blast as it was. Apparently the largest "real" weapons in the Russian inventory were 20 megaton ICBM warheads carried on a regiment of SS-18 "Satan" missiles, who's sole military purpose was to turn Cheyenne Mountain into Cheyenne lake.

Ultra fast and ultra deep diving Russian submarines have excited naval observers since the "Alpha" class submarine in the late 1970's, but they have long been retired and replaced by fairly conventional SSN's, suggesting the gains were rather marginal compared to the costs associated with these boats.

Anyway, people looking for Russian military porn can always pull up NextBigFuture to see the flurry of new systems being announced by Russia. One can only wonder how this is being paid for as a minimum, since Russia's GDP is about the same as Italy. More sensible announcements, like Russia is rebuilding their T-90 tank fleet to maintain the striking power of their armed forces without the expense of buying new Armata tanks or other things like the PAK-FA stealth fighter being delayed yet again because of deficient engines don't seem to get quite the same headlines or levels of attention, somehow....


----------



## GR66

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Things like supercavitating torpedoes, massive nuclear weapons and ultra deep diving submariens seem almostr to be artifacts of the Cold War being trotted out yet again to confuse or demoralize Western audiences. Supercavitation has been u8nder active investigation by the USN as well, including such things as specially shaped bullets allowing helicopters to fire at targets (like mines) underwater. I recall a flurry of articles coming out in the 2000's(?) touting supercavitation as the "next big thing", but practical issues like guiding the beast once it has entered the bubble still seem to defy practical solutions.
> 
> Massive devices like the Tsar Bomba are huge resource hogs with fairly limited utility (if the lead casing had been replaced by a uranium one, the estimated yield would have been 100 megatons, but the bomber could barely carry it and escape the blast as it was. Apparently the largest "real" weapons in the Russian inventory were 20 megaton ICBM warheads carried on a regiment of SS-18 "Satan" missiles, who's sole military purpose was to turn Cheyenne Mountain into Cheyenne lake.
> 
> Ultra fast and ultra deep diving Russian submarines have excited naval observers since the "Alpha" class submarine in the late 1970's, but they have long been retired and replaced by fairly conventional SSN's, suggesting the gains were rather marginal compared to the costs associated with these boats.
> 
> Anyway, people looking for Russian military porn can always pull up NextBigFuture to see the flurry of new systems being announced by Russia. One can only wonder how this is being paid for as a minimum, since Russia's GDP is about the same as Italy. More sensible announcements, like Russia is rebuilding their T-90 tank fleet to maintain the striking power of their armed forces without the expense of buying new Armata tanks or other things like the PAK-FA stealth fighter being delayed yet again because of deficient engines don't seem to get quite the same headlines or levels of attention, somehow....



 :goodpost:

Every year seems to have it's revolutionary weapon in the spotlight, but the ones that actually seem to be purchased and used seem to be much more evolutionary.


----------



## tomahawk6

First the A2/AD threat from China and now its Russia's turn to carve out their domains to deny those areas to NATO navies. The US or any of its allies could do the same in reverse. The Turks dont have the money or weapons to deny Russia,I suspect thats where NATO comes in. But we want a Turkey that will be a partner noy when it suitd them.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russia-turkey-the-black-sea-a2-ad-arms-race-19673

While the Chinese A2/AD “bubble” in the South China Sea gives headaches to the United States and its allies in the Asia-Pacific region, further to the north, the newest Russian “bubble” is about to go online against Japan in the disputed Kuril Islands. Meanwhile, on the other end of Eurasia, in Russia’s Kaliningrad enclave, another A2/AD zone challenges NATO’s position in Eastern Europe.

Now, two more Russian “bubbles” in the Black Sea and Syria are threatening Turkey and NATO’s southeastern flank.


----------



## MarkOttawa

New Yasen-class SSNs--not SLCMs, possible threat to North America and worry for NORAD; seven in all to be built:



> Russia's Most Powerful Nuclear Attack Submarine Ever Is Almost Ready for Sea
> 
> Russia is set to launch its second Yasen-class nuclear-powered attack submarine on March 30. Called Kazan, the new vessel is an upgraded Project 885M design that is in many ways much more capable than the lead ship of the class, K-560 Severodvinsk.
> 
> "Kazan is expected to be rolled out and put afloat on March 30," a Russian defense source told the Moscow-based TASS news agency.
> 
> The Russian Navy will take delivery of Kazan in 2018. Once the vessel is operational, she will be the most formidable enemy submarine that the U.S. Navy has ever faced. “It’s probably the most capable nuclear powered submarine out there fielded by a potential adversary,” Center for Naval Analyses Russian military affairs specialist Michael Kofman told The National Interest.
> 
> Indeed, Kazan is expected to be substantially improved over her older sister, the Severodvinsk...
> 
> “[Severodvinsk] is Russia’s first truly multipurpose submarine,” Michael Kofman and Norman Polmar wrote in the U.S. Naval Institute’s Proceedings journal. “The Severodvinsk is capable of antisubmarine, antiship, and land-attack missions. Among the more interesting features are a large bow sonar dome for the Irtysh-Amfora sonar system and an amidships battery of _eight vertical-launch cells that can carry 32 Kalibr (SS-N-27/30 Sizzler) or Oniks (SS-N-26 Strobile) cruise missiles. These antiship and land-attack weapons are particularly significant after Russian surface ships and submarines fired long-range mis­siles into Syria in 2016_ [emphasis added].”
> 
> Russia plans to build a total of seven Project 885M submarines—Novosibirsk, Krasnoyarsk, Arkhangelsk and Perm are currently under construction at the Sevmash shipyards on the White Sea port city of Severodvinsk...
> 
> Russia plans to build a total of seven Project 885M submarines—Novosibirsk, Krasnoyarsk, Arkhangelsk and Perm are currently under construction at the Sevmash shipyards on the White Sea port city of Severodvinsk...
> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-most-powerful-nuclear-attack-submarine-ever-almost-19775



Graphic of Severodvinsk:



> Build Limited Missile Defenses Against Russian, Chinese Strikes: Experts
> http://breakingdefense.com/2017/03/build-limited-missile-defenses-against-russian-chinese-strikes-experts/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

Plus on SSBN Borei-class front:



> Russia to Launch 1st Project 955A SSBN Submarine Knyaz Vladimir in August-September 2017
> 
> The Project 955A Borei-A class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine Knyaz Vladimir will be floated out in August or September 2017, a source in Russia’s defense industry told TASS.
> 
> "The fourth Borei-class submarine is planned to be put afloat in August or September 2017," the source said in reply to the relevant question.
> 
> The submarine Knyaz Vladimir was laid down in 2012. It will be the fourth out of eight Project 955 nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines and the first vessel built under improved project 955A. Russia’s Navy has already received three Project 955 submarines. The submarines Knyaz Oleg and Generalissimo Suvorov were laid down in 2014. The submarines Emperor Alexander III and Knyaz Pozharsky were laid down in 2015 and 2016, respectively. Each submarine carries 16 Bulava (NATO reporting name: SS-NX-32) intercontinental ballistic missiles.
> 
> A source in Russia’s defense industry told TASS earlier that the submarine Knyaz Vladimir would join the Navy in 2018 or one year later than planned.
> 
> The submarine was expected to be delivered to the Navy in 2017...
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/march-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/4988-russia-to-launch-1st-project-955a-ssbn-submarine-knyaz-vladimir-in-august-september-2017.html



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## dimsum

Did someone forget to tell the Russians that ASW is dead?   >


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Did someone forget to tell the Russians that ASW is dead?   >



I think someone forgot to tell the GoC it _isn't_ dead.  CASEX tomorrow!


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Article Link
*
Masters of the Arctic: Russia to Permanently Station Submarines in Icy North*

Russian combat submarines have returned to the Arctic region, where they will increase their presence in the near future, Rear Admiral Viktor Kochemazov, the head of the combat training department of the Russian Navy, told the Russian newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda.

In an interview with the Russian newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda, Rear Admiral Viktor Kochemazov, the head of the combat training department of the Russian Navy, said that the next few years will see Russian battle submarines increasing their presence in the Arctic region.

Developing the Arctic Ocean basin is one of the main tasks set by the Russian Commander-in-Chief, a task that Kochemazov said will be resolved by stationing Russian submarines there on a permanent basis.

Kochemazov noted that after a long pause, the advanced Russian nuclear powered submarines have returned to the Arctic Ocean, including the Borey- and Yasen-class multipurpose ballistic missile submarines.

He recalled that the Kalibr missile systems were earlier successfully used against the terrorist group Daesh in Syria.

"I want to note that the development and testing of new types of weapons is underway; in this vein, we are not lagging behind the NATO countries, and in some respects we even surpass them," Kochemasov said.

Separately, he noted that in order to improve the professional training of submarine crews, competitions are regularly held among Russian Navy units, in what is expected to add significantly to the combat capability of the Russian submarines.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Ivan has lost a naval recce ship in a collision off the coast of Turkey.


> Russian navy vessel sinks after collision off Turkey
> 
> Crew of both ships safe after crash near Bosphorus Strait
> 
> Thomson Reuters  Posted: Apr 27, 2017 8:02 AM ET| Last Updated: Apr 27, 2017 11:10 AM ET
> A Russian reconnaissance ship sank after it collided with a Togo-flagged cargo vessel off the Turkish coast on Thursday, according to Turkey's coastal safety authority.
> 
> The Russian ship Liman and the other vessel, identified by authorities as Youzarsif H, collided in fog and low visibility in the Black Sea.
> 
> The Turkish coast guard said all 78 personnel aboard the Russian ship were rescued after it sent a tugboat and three fast rescue vessels to the area.
> 
> The freighter sustained minor damage — it is able to continue sailing — and all crew members are safe, according Turkey's transportation minister.
> 
> The ship was taking sheep from Romania to Jordan, according to Turkish broadcaster NTV.
> 
> Russia's defence ministry said the collision occurred about 40 kilometres northwest of the Bosphorus Strait.
> 
> The Bosphorus, which cuts through Istanbul, is one of the world's most important waterways for transit of oil and grains. The 27-kilometre waterway connects the Black Sea to the Mediterranean.
> With files from The Associated Press and CBC News
> © Thomson Reuters, 2017
> Reuters
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-ship-collision-1.4088014


----------



## MarkOttawa

Aging sub woes (note cruise missiles re NORAD):



> A Grim Future For Russia’s Nuclear Sub Fleet
> The Kremlin can't replace its aging subs fast enough
> 
> In March 2017, Russia’s new Yasen-class nuclear attack submarine Kazan launched at the northern port city of Severodvinsk. Perhaps the quietest Russian submarine ever, the event was further evidence the Kremlin can still build capable and lethal subs capable of a variety of missions, including cruise-missile attack.
> 
> But it won’t be enough. The Russian navy — already badly depleted since the collapse of the Soviet Union — can’t quickly replace most of its existing nuclear submarine fleet, which is approaching the end of its collective lifespan. The outcome will likely mean a shrinking of the Russian nuclear submarine force in the years ahead.
> 
> By 2030, the bulk of Russia’s nuclear-powered attack and cruise-missile submarines will be in their mid-thirties at least — with some pushing into their forties. For perspective, the three oldest active American attack submarines, the Los Angeles-class USS Dallas, Bremerton and Jacksonville, are all 36 years old and waiting to be decommissioned during the next three years.
> 
> Submarines wear out in old age, particularly due to hull corrosion. Another serious concern is corrosion affecting components inside the nuclear reactor compartments, but data surrounding this subject are tightly guarded secrets among the world’s navies.
> 
> More to the point, naval vessels staying in service during old age require more maintenance and longer rest periods. Given that only around half of Russia’s submarine force — a charitable estimate — can be at sea at any given time, a force made up of mostly old boats will strain operational readiness.
> 
> The Kremlin’s relatively new multi-role Yasen class, of which two — the Severodvinsk and Kazan — launched in 2010 and 2017 respectively, cannot make up for the future retirements of Russia’s 11 Akulas, three Sierras, four Victor III attackers and eight Oscar II cruise missile subs, which are all getting long in the tooth.
> 
> The youngest Akula class, Gepard, entered service in 2000. Most date to the early 1990s.
> 
> The Yasen is a late-Soviet design with seven planned submarines, with the last one planned to enter service in 2023. This is again being generous given the Yasen class’ enormous expense, which is twice as high as one of Russia’s new ballistic missile subs.
> 
> While Russia could attempt to keep its Cold War-era subs going as long as possible, “given the obvious risk of rising costs, Russia will be able to have no more than 50 percent of the current number of nuclear submarines [by 2030],” the Russian military blog BMPD warned in a particularly grim assessment.
> 
> Russia’s ballistic missile submarines will be in somewhat better shape in 2030. Few countries possess “boomers” capable of dumping nuclear warheads into enemy cities — the United States, India, China, France, the United Kingdom and North Korea. Russia currently has 13, including three from the new Borey class, with up to five more on the way.
> 
> But by 2030, Russia’s three Delta III, six Delta IV-class boomers and its one Typhoon class will all be at least 40 years old if they remain in service. Nevertheless, even if Russia scrapped these boats and only relied on its newer Boreys, no country can likely match them in numbers except for the United States, China and possibly India...
> http://warisboring.com/a-grim-future-for-russias-nuclear-submarine-fleet/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

Negative appreciation of state of Russian Navy:



> *Why Russia's Once Superpower Navy Is in Big Trouble*
> 
> Over the past year, the Russian Navy has undertaken several high visibility operations, most notably the deployment of the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov off the coast of Syria, and the launch of cruise missiles from ships based in the Caspian Sea. Russian submarine activity has also increased, although not quite to the level seen in the Cold War.
> 
> But Moscow might be best advised to heed Matthew 26:41 where maritime adventures are concerned; “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” The Russian Navy is a mess, and it will probably become more of a mess in the future.
> 
> *Current Ships*
> 
> The Russian Navy inherited a massive, modern fleet of surface ships and submarines. Most of these disappeared in short order, as Russia was incapable of maintaining such a flotilla. The remaining major units of the Russian Navy are very old, and in questionable states of repair. Of the twenty-four major surface combatants operated by the Russian Navy, three (the frigates of the Admiral Grigorovich class) were laid down after the end of the Cold War. Most of the holdouts from the Soviet Navy are approaching the end of their useful lifespans, although the Russians have made some effort at refitting and updating parts of the fleet.
> 
> How long the Russians can keep the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov in a kind of service without a major refit is up for serious question, but despite ambitious promises no replacement has been laid down. The nuclear battlecruiser Pyotr Velikiy has remained active for the past decade, and reports persist that Admiral Nakhimov will return to service in the next couple of years, but both ships are in excess of thirty years old.
> 
> *Future Projects*
> 
> If Moscow built every ship that they had promised to build over the past decade, then the Russian Navy would indeed become a world class fleet. The Russian national security state thrives on the announcement of big projects, but not so much on their fulfillment. The actual record of Russian surface ship construction is, by international standards, rather grim.
> 
> The biggest successes of Russian shipbuilding have been the Admiral Grigorovich (4,000 tons) and the Admiral Gorshkov (5,400 tons) frigates. The former have endured construction times of roughly seven years; the latter of nine or so years. Two Grigorovich frigates have entered service, with four more under construction. The first Gorshkov should enter service sometime later this year, with three more on the way.
> 
> By contrast, it took the British about six years to construct the Type 45 destroyers; the Americans about four for an Arleigh Burke; the Japanese four years for an Atago; and the Chinese about four for a Type 052D. All of these ships are roughly twice the size of the frigates Russia is struggling to complete [_and RCN?_].
> 
> The twelve ships of the Lider class, a proposed 17,000 ton destroyer, could easily replace the existing cruisers and destroyers of the fleet, but there is little indication that the Kremlin plans to lay these ships down, much less complete them in a reasonable timeframe...
> 
> *Submarines*
> 
> The strength of Russia’s position depends, to great extent, on an evaluation of the centrality of nuclear submarines to naval power. Nuclear submarines, in both their ballistic missile and attack variants, are really the only things that the Russian shipbuilding industry has done well since the end of the Cold War. While the size of the flotilla has dropped (thirteen SSBNs, seven SSGNs, seventeen SSNs and about twenty diesels, depending on what’s available that day), the Russian Navy has worked hard to ensure that replacements are on the way. The eight submarines of the Borei class (three in service, five under construction) should serve as a capable deterrent for the foreseeable future, and the seven Yasen class nuclear attack submarines provide a modern complement to Russia’s existing stock of Sierra, Oscar and Akula class subs...
> 
> [More links at original of this para] _Robert Farley, a frequent contributor to TNI, is author of The Battleship Book. He serves as a Senior Lecturer at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce at the University of Kentucky. His work includes military doctrine, national security, and maritime affairs. He blogs at Lawyers, Guns and Money and Information Dissemination and The Diplomat._
> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-russias-once-superpower-navy-big-trouble-21796?page=show



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Eye In The Sky

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Plus on SSBN Borei-class front:
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



A later article on the _Knyaz Vladimir _:

Russia to Launch its Deadliest Ballistic Missile Submarine in August

The Russian Navy will float out an improved variant of its latest class of ballistic missile submarines in the summer. 

The Russian Navy will launch the first advanced variant of the nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine  (SSBN) Project 955A Borei II-class (“North Wind”) aka Dolgorukiy-class in August, the head of the Russian Navy, Admiral Vladimir Korolyov, announced on June 26 in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

The new boomer, christened Knyaz Vladimir (Prince Vladimir), will strengthen Russia’s sea-based nuclear deterrent, according to the admiral. “In August this year, the Severodvinsk-based Sevmash Shipyard will flout out the new Borei-class strategic underwater cruiser, the Prince Vladimir, which will strengthen the potential of the nuclear component of the Navy’s submarine fleet,” he said, TASS news agency reports.

The Knyaz Vladimir, the lead boat of the improved Borei II-class, was laid down in July 2012 at the Sevmash Shipyards in Severodvinsk, a port city on Russia’s White Sea, following a two year delay due to contract disputes between the Russian Ministry of Defense and the ship contractor, which pushed back the commissioning date of the ship from 2017 to 2018. The likely 2018 commissioning date was confirmed by Vice Admiral Viktor Bursuk, the deputy commander of the Russian Navy, in March.

The major difference between the Borei and Borei II-class is the latter’s capability to carry a much bigger nuclear payload, as I noted elsewhere (See: “Russia Will Start Constructing New Ballistic Missile Submarine in December”):


In comparison to the Borei-class, Borei II-class submarines are fitted with four additional missile tubes, boast smaller hulls and cons, and feature improved acoustics and lower sound levels, next to a number of other technical improvements.

Both variants of Borei-class subs will be armed with Bulava (RSM-56) intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). The Borei-class will be capable of carrying up to 16 Bulava ICBMs, whereas the improved Borei II-class can carry up to 20 ballistic missiles.

The improved variant of the Borei-class will be capable of launching 96-200 hypersonic, independently maneuverable warheads, yielding 100-150 kilotons apiece. 

The Russian Navy plans to operate eight Borei-class SSBNs–three Borei-class and five improved Borei II-class boats–by 2o25. As of new, three Borei-class SSBNs have been commissioned to date with one submarine, the Yuri Dolgoruky, serving with the Northern Fleet and the remaining two–Alexander Nevsky and Vladimir Monomakh—deployed with Russia’s increasingly more active Pacific Fleet.

Next, to announcing the launch of the Knyaz Vladimir, Admiral Korolyov also told reporters on June 26 that Russia is developing a next-generation nuclear-powered submarines. “Along with this, work is already under way to develop fifth-generation nuclear-powered submarines,” the admiral said.

As I reported in June 2015, the new sub class will likely consist of two variants specifically designed for anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare missions. “The main purpose of the [underwater interceptor] is to protect groups of [ballistic] missile carrying submarines, and to battle with enemy submarines. The second ship will be a cruise missile carrier [used] for defeating coastal and surface targets,” a senior Russian defense industry official said at the time.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Article Link

Red October Revisited: Massive Submarine Hunt Along Norwegian Coast

After a series of agonizingly unsuccessful submarine hunts in Sweden, searching for Russian subs seems to have become one of the Nordics' favorite pastimes. Even now, an intense hunt for an alleged Russian submarine is taking place along Norway's coast.

In the past few weeks, NATO has been at pains to locate a state-of-the-art Russian submarine along the Norwegian coastline. The suspected target is the Kazan (K-561), recently launched at Sevmash shipyard in Severodvinsk, the Norwegian news outlet Aldrimer reported.

According to Aldrimer, the hunt features maritime resources from the US, Canada, France, Germany and Norway. Maritime patrol flights are being carried out from Norway's Andøya and Bodø, Keflavik in Iceland, Lossiemouth in Scotland and also from French territory.

NATO defense sources told Aldrimer that the purpose of the extensive flights is to trace the current location of the Kazan, a Russian nuclear-powered Yasen-class submarine launched on March 31 this year. The same sources ventured that NATO completely lost track of the Russian submarine, which was rumored to have been monitoring the US-UK North Atlantic exercise Saxon Warrior 2017.

According to Aldrimer, the US and the UK have contributed the USS George H.W. Bush and the HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers, alongside a number of frigates, missile cruisers and a destroyer. Meanwhile, the Norwegian Navy contributed the KNM Helge Ingstad frigate to the search party. The US, Canada and France are responsible for scouting the southern parts of the search area, whereas Norway and Germany jointly run P-3C Orion surveillance aircraft in areas north of Andøya. The P-3C were previously revealed to be struggling with submarine detection.

The Twitter account MIL_Radar, which regularly reports on military aviation movements, recently published a map chart over the North Atlantic, which allegedly only reflected a small part of the operation. When confronted with the graphics and asked to clarify whether a submarine hunt was underway along the Norwegian coast, the Norwegian Armed Forces Operational Headquarters (FOH) declined to comment.

https://twitter.com/MIL_Radar/status/902218958207672321

The Kazan's predecessor, the Severodvinsk, which also became the flagship of the Yasen-class, has a submerged displacement of 13,800 tons, a length of 119 meters, can travel up to 31 knots per hour, even in submerged mode, and can dive to 600 meters.

Yasen-class submarines are widely regarded as being fearsome opponents with no adequate counterparts and are far quieter compared with older-generation Russian submarines. Russia plans to have at least eight Yasen class cruise-missile carrying attack vessels in its submarine fleet.


----------



## MarkOttawa

Russian navy, cruise missiles and deterrence, conventional and nuclear (NORAD, RCAF and RCN [ASW and surface-to-air missile capabilities on CSC] note):


> The Russian Navy Is Relying More on Precision-Guided Weapons
> _And less on nukes for deterrence_
> By Dave Majumdar
> 
> The Russian navy will be focusing more effort on fielding new long-range precision-guided weapons as a form of non-nuclear strategic deterrence, reducing Moscow’s reliance on so-called “tactical” nuclear forces. Nonetheless, Russian forces are likely to retain significant non-strategic nuclear forces indefinitely into the foreseeable future.
> 
> “The Navy General Command will particularly focus on forming strategic non-nuclear deterrence groups that will include vessels armed with long-range precision weapons, as well as on improving the system of naval bases and ensuring balanced supply of weapons and munitions,” Commander-in-Chief Admiral Vladimir Korolyov told the TASS news agency.
> 
> The shift is a significant departure from previous policy, notes former Soviet and Russian arms control negotiator Nikolai Sokov, now a senior fellow at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey.
> 
> “From a broader perspective this looks like a significant development because historically the Russian navy has been the greatest proponent of non-strategic nuclear weapons: they said they cannot face U.S. Navy without them,” Sokov told The National Interest.
> 
> “Now they not only have new weapons, but, more importantly, a new mission; new and more capable weapons will emerge eventually.”
> 
> “Moreover, weapons are usable and, perhaps even more importantly, can be deployed on a broad range of platforms, including those that have never carried nuclear weapons (big help to the Russian naval program — small vessels can be very tangible and it’s easier to cut funding for big-ticket items).”
> 
> However, while the new Russian development is significant, Moscow will still rely on its nuclear forces to some extent.
> 
> “This is part of an overall Russian strategy to bolster its conventional deterrence, and ability to retaliate with long range conventional weapons,” said Michael Kofman, a research scientist specializing in Russian military affairs at the Center for Naval Analysis.
> 
> “However it does not obviate the navy’s role in escalation control with non-strategic nuclear weapons as clearly stipulated in the naval doctrine signed in 2017.”
> 
> Russia’s conventional deterrence will be used in conjunction with its nuclear forces. “The two are not exclusive but complementary pursuits, as the former _(non-nuclear deterrence) is intended to deter the U.S. from leveraging its conventional superiority, while the latter (nuclear deterrence with Non-Strategic Nuclear Weapons [NSNW]) is intended for escalation control_ [emphasis added].”
> 
> Indeed, all of Russia’s new long-range precision-guided weapons are dual nuclear and conventional capable weapons. “The missiles are the same, the difference is solely in the payload,” Kofman said. “You can _logically assume that nuclear-tipped missiles will have substantially longer ranges_ [emphasis added, really?].”..
> https://warisboring.com/the-russian-navy-is-relying-more-on-precision-guided-weapons/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## jollyjacktar

Very interesting ship.

https://youtu.be/E4iZv_Mjl0A


----------



## MarkOttawa

NATO and US Navy reacting to Russians and North Atlantic (e.g. growing nuked SLCM threat)--presume RCN will be represented at Norfolk:



> 'Great power competition': Nato announces Atlantic command to counter Russia
> _US to reactivate its Second Fleet and host new naval command in Norfolk, Virginia, amid rising tensions with Moscow_
> 
> Amid rising tensions with Russia, the Pentagon has announced the official launch of a new naval command and the reactivation of the US Second Fleet to bolster the US and Nato presence in the Atlantic Ocean.
> 
> “The return to great power competition and a resurgent Russia demands that Nato refocus on the Atlantic to ensure dedicated reinforcement of the continent and demonstrate a capable and credible deterrence effect,” said Johnny Michael, a Pentagon spokesman. He said the new Nato command “will be the linchpin of trans-Atlantic security”.
> 
> The decision reflects escalating worries across Europe and within Nato over Russia’s increased military presence and patrols in the Atlantic region. Under the new plan, the US will set up Nato’s new Atlantic Command headquarters in Norfolk, Virginia.
> 
> Outlines of the plan were approved at the February meeting of Nato defence ministers as part of a broader effort to ensure the security of the sea lanes and lines of communication between Europe and North America. Nato secretary general Jens Stoltenberg told reporters at the time: “We have seen a much more assertive Russia, we have seen a Russia which has over many years invested heavily in their military capabilities, modernized their military capabilities, which are exercising not only conventional forces but also nuclear forces.”
> 
> He said the new Atlantic Command would be vital for the alliance to be able to respond. Nato also created a new logistics command, which is expected to be located in Germany.
> 
> At the same time, the US navy is re-establishing its Second Fleet command, which was was merged with the navy’s Fleet Forces command in 2011 to cut costs. The command will oversee ships, aircraft and landing forces on the east coast and northern Atlantic Ocean, and will be responsible for training forces and conducting maritime operations in the region.
> 
> Restarting the command was recommended in the navy study done following the two deadly ship collisions in 2017 that killed a total of 17 sailors. Admiral John Richardson, the chief of naval operations, said the move comes as the security environment “continues to grow more challenging and complex”.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/05/great-power-competition-nato-announces-atlantic-command-to-counter-russia?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other



More:



> Navy Reestablishes U.S. 2nd Fleet to Face Russian Threat; Plan Calls for 250 Person Command in Norfolk
> https://news.usni.org/2018/05/04/navy-reestablishes-2nd-fleet-plan-calls-for-250-person-command-in-norfolk



From June 2016:



> USN “Admiral Warns: Russian Subs Waging Cold War-Style ‘Battle of the Atlantic’”–and RCN?
> 
> Further to this post and the “Comments” on Russian subs (note cruise missile threat to North America)...
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/06/03/mark-collins-usn-admiral-warns-russian-subs-waging-cold-war-style-battle-of-the-atlantic-and-rcn/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

Hunting for Red October and cruise-missile subs--re-created USN Second Fleet to the Arctic and Russian SSBN havens (implications for NORAD):



> CNO: New 2nd Fleet Boundary Will Extend North to the Edge of Russian Waters
> 
> ABOARD AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS GEORGE H.W. BUSH – The boundaries of the Navy’s reestablished U.S. 2nd Fleet extends well past the old submarine stomping grounds of the Cold War and into waters north of Scandinavia and the Arctic Circle, near the submarine headquarters of Russia’s Northern Fleet, Chief of Naval Operations John Richardson said on Friday.
> 
> “A new 2nd Fleet increases our strategic flexibility to respond — from the Eastern Seaboard to the Barents Sea,” Richardson said. “Second Fleet will approach the North Atlantic as one continuous operational space, and conduct expeditionary fleet operations where and when needed.”
> 
> Richardson and new 2nd Fleet commander Vice Adm. Andrew Lewis stressed the standup of the new command was a reflection of the National Defense Strategy from Secretary of Defense James Mattis that signaled a return to “great power competition” with nation-states, rather than the low-intensity ground wars the U.S. has waged since 2001...
> 
> Former Deputy Secretary of Defense Bob Work told USNI News on Friday the extension of the boundary to Russia’s doorstep was in line with the new Mattis-led strategy.
> 
> “This truly is about great power competition and demonstrating it to the great powers that we can operate in waters nearby when and where we chose to do so. It’s signaling we’re here. We’re ready to go,” Work said.
> “In China we have a rival that is really has a full-spectrum naval capability. The Russians truly are more of an undersea competitor. The best way to get there is to operate in those grounds close to them and not let them break out into the open ocean.”
> 
> ...Richardson declined to talk to reporters about specific Russian capabilities he views as threats. However, it’s well known the Russian Navy has invested heavily in its attack submarine fleet and its new Kalibir land strike missile with about a 1,000-mile range...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://news.usni.org/2018/08/24/cno-new-2nd-fleet-boundary-will-extend-north-edge-russian-waters



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

Anyone seriously expect any large-scale reinforcing by sea of NATO Europe would actually occur? 



> How Russia’s Sub-Launched Missiles Threaten NATO’s Wartime Strategy
> 
> NATO used to worry that Soviet subs would decimate supply convoys and carrier battle groups. Now Russia can simply wreck ports from afar.
> 
> Three years ago, the Russian submarine Rostov-na-Donu wrapped up its sea trials by firing a few test missiles in the Barents Sea. This is not particularly unusual; such tests are sometimes conducted just off the Norwegian coast, close enough to be seen by the NATO ally’s border guards. Nor was it unusual for the newly commissioned attack submarine to head off toward its new homeport, Sevastopol in annexed Crimea, home of Russia’s Black Sea fleet.
> 
> The unusual part came in early December, when the improved Kilo-class submarine began to loiter off Syria — and on Dec. 8, unleashed a volley of Kalibr cruise missiles against what Moscow alleged were ISIS targets ashore.
> 
> The cruise missile attack itself counted for little in the Syrian civil war, where both Russia and the U.S.-led coalition have been pounding targets from the air with missiles and bombs for years. But it signaled that Russia had joined the small global club that can deliver no-notice long-range strikes from the relative safety of the underwater domain. This technological achievement has game-changing implications for NATO and America’s ability to come to the aid of its European allies if Russia and the transatlantic alliance ever comes to blows in Europe...
> https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2018/10/how-russias-sub-launched-missiles-threaten-natos-wartime-strategy/151803/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## GR66

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Anyone seriously expect any large-scale reinforcing by sea of NATO Europe would actually occur?
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Wouldn't it?  Are you saying that you don't foresee any need for the US to reinforce NATO (there isn't a realistic threat from Russia), you don't think that the US would reinforce NATO (political decision not to get involved) or that the reinforcement would be by air instead of by sea?

If the last I'd like to know from more knowledgeable people if that would be accurate.  It's a very long flight from the US to say Poland (or Japan, or the Middle East, etc.) and I imagine the very long flights with high fuel requirements would put a major strain on US strategic airlift assets (both crews and aircraft) to transport troops, vehicles, munitions, etc. in order to reinforce and then sustain a major ground war.

I would think that a more logical approach would be to use sealift to get the materials closer to the conflict zone (Atlantic coast of Europe, Japan, Guam, Saudi Arabia, etc.) then focus your airlift on shorter hops toward the front.  Just a total speculation though on my part.


----------



## CBH99

I would think your right.  You can move A LOT more vehicles, ammo, fuel, and supplies on those massive cargo ships than you ever could with a C-17.  

Why move one Abrams when you could move 50?  Why move 4 Humvees when you could move 100?  or 200?


I would think there WOULD be large scale reinforcement of Europe/NATO via the Atlantic.  Between the US, Canada, and all of the EU countries relying on those reinforcements - I'm thinking the Atlantic would be a fairly high priority to control.  It's the "highway" between the western countries of North America & the western countries of Europe - I'm thinking that highway between the 2 would be kept fairly clear of enemy assets.  

Also agree, Russia isn't a realistic threat.  Could they disrupt?  Sure.  Full scale naval war?  Their fleets are too widely dispersed in the various seas to go toe to toe with the US, Canadian, British, French, Italian, Danish, Finnish, etc etc fleets.  On or below the surface.


----------



## MarkOttawa

More on the US re-inforcing NATO Europe by sea:



> ‘You’re on your own’: US sealift can’t count on US Navy escorts in the next big war
> 
> In the event of a major war with China or Russia, the U.S. Navy, almost half the size it was during the height of the Cold War, is going to be busy with combat operations. It may be too busy, in fact, to always escort the massive sealift effort it would take to transport what the Navy estimates will be roughly 90 percent of the Marine Corps and Army gear the force would need to sustain a major conflict.
> 
> That’s the message Mark Buzby, the retired rear admiral who now leads the Department of Transportation’s Maritime Administration, has gotten from the Navy, and it’s one that has instilled a sense of urgency around a major cultural shift inside the force of civilian mariners that would be needed to support a large war effort.
> 
> “The Navy has been candid enough with Military Sealift Command and me that they will probably not have enough ships to escort us. It’s: ‘You’re on your own; go fast, stay quiet,’” Buzby told Defense News in an interview earlier this year...
> https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/10/10/youre-on-your-own-us-sealift-cant-count-on-us-navy-escorts-in-the-next-big-war-forcing-changes/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## GR66

All the more reason for Canada to increase the number of escort ships we have.  It would also be a contribution recognized and valued by the US.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

There is more to contend with than Russian surface and sub-surface;  naval air.  The 3 combined are somewhat more capable than I think most people give them credit for.  1 unlocated Oscar is a significant threat on it's own.

Any major reinforcing across the pond would likely involve both sea and air assets.  Will it ever happen?  Likely not but they are contingency plans for it regardless.


----------



## CBH99

This is true, and in the case of conflict with China - especially near it's territory - I think that's a bigger threat.


Lets keep in mind the Russian carrier may or may not even be able to get underway, and may or may not be able to conduct flight operations.

That's not a slant against them or the crew.  It's an old ship, and as Syria showed us, it has enough difficulty generating sorties without an adversary hunting for it.  I don't know how much of a role Russian naval air would play in any Atlantic conflict.


----------



## MarkOttawa

NORAD/missile defence implications for RCN, RCAF:



> Russia’s Newest Yasen-Class Attack Submarines Are the Equal of America's Subs
> 
> Russia has had a lot of wonder weapons in the news, from combat walkers to nuclear-powered cruise missiles. Many of these weapons verge on the ridiculous or are the product of propaganda, but some are legitimately concerning. One scenario that keeps Pentagon planners up at night: the threat of sea-launched cruise missiles, ferried halfway across the Atlantic by Russia’s new submarines, threading their way through American airspace to deliver their deadly nuclear warheads on unsuspecting targets. Welcome to the new Yasen-class submarines...
> 
> One such project was the Project 855 nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, or Yasen-class. The first ship in the class, Severodvinsk, was laid down in December 1993. Just three years later, Moscow halted construction due to a lack of funds with only a third of the hull completed. The submarine finally entered service in 2014 as Russia’s first truly modern nuclear attack submarine of the post-Cold War era.
> 
> Severodvinsk is a big submarine. She is approximately 393 feet long and displaces 11,800 tons submerged. An OK-650KPM pressurized-water nuclear reactor provides 200 megawatts of power, driving her to speeds up to 31 knots submerged. A Irtysh-Amfora sonar system provides near all-around sonar coverage, with a bow-mounted spherical sonar array, flank arrays on the hull of the submarine, and a towed sonar array dragged from the rear of the submarine while moving.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Yasen-class combat systems are formidable, with ten 533-millimeter torpedo tubes armed with UGST-M heavyweight guided torpedoes. The weapon systems of greatest concern to Western analysts however are the eight multipurpose vertical launch tubes behind the sail. These launch tubes can accommodate P-800 Oniks missiles, ramjet-powered ship killers that in the final moments of an attack speed up to a blistering Mach 2.5, all the while staying as low as 16 feet above the wavetops.
> 
> Basically, a surprise attack by a Yasen armed with Oniks missiles would give U.S. carrier strike groups little time to react.
> 
> Another weapon that fits in the vertical launch tubes: Kalibr land attack cruise missiles. Similar to the American Tomahawk cruise missile, Russia has launched several waves of Kalibr missiles from submarines and surface ships against Islamic State targets in Syria. Kalibr missiles are also nuclear tipped. The first Yasen submarine, Severodvinsk, can carry up to 40 Kalibr cruise missiles while the second, Kazan, can carry 32. The result is a potent potential first strike platform.
> 
> For years, Russia has tried to devise a means of bypassing American ballistic missile defenses. Even though U.S. defenses are oriented against smaller states like Iran and North Korea, the Russians believe the potential exists for Washington to scale up its defenses to the point where they could threaten Moscow’s nuclear deterrent. If Washington can shoot down Russia’s missiles, that’s not much of a nuclear deterrent.
> 
> U.S. missile defense efforts are concentrated against high-flying ballistic missiles. Cruise missiles like Kalibr on the other hand fly a low, terrain-hugging profile to evade early warning radars. Russia’s implied threat in fielding nuclear-tipped cruise missiles is that no matter what kind of missile defenses the U.S. deploys, Russia will seek to go around them.
> 
> The problem with missiles like Kalibr is that they could easily be nuclear first-strike weapons. Kalibr has a range of 1,600 miles. As submarine expert H.I. Sutton, author of World Submarines: Covert Shores Recognition Guide, points out, a Type 855 submarine armed with Kalibr missiles “could target East Coast U.S. cities from the mid-Atlantic.”
> 
> Submarines with _Kalibr missiles could launch decapitation strikes against key government targets across the United States, crippling the ability of U.S. strategic forces to retaliate. The closer the launching submarine can get to the U.S. mainland, the deeper the cruise missiles can fly into North America and the harder it is to stop them_ [emphasis added]...
> https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-s-newest-yasen-class-attack-submarines-are-the-e-1829644713



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

USN P-8s sub-hunting (mostly) from Alaska (as well as Iceland), mainly interested in Russkies I imagine but also to keep eye out for Chinese in north:



> Navy Looking To Fly P-8s From Cold War-era Base In Alaska
> 
> The Navy may begin deploying submarine-hunting P-8 Poseidon aircraft to a small airstrip hundreds of miles off the Alaskan coast, signaling a new emphasis on keeping watch over Russian and Chinese moves in the Arctic.
> 
> The remote runway sits on the island of Adak in the Aleutian island chain, and is the westernmost airfield that can handle passenger aircraft in the United States — in fact, it currently handles Air Alaska flights two days a week.
> 
> Formally known as Naval Air Facility Adak, the small airport has been operating commercially since the Navy moved out in 1997, but increasing Russian and Chinese activity in the Arctic has the Navy looking at new patrols as it searches for ways to keep a closer watch on the far north.
> 
> Navy officials previously estimated that reopening the base would cost around $1.3 billion, but Navy Secretary Richard Spencer indicated Wednesday at a joint hearing of the Senate subcommittees on sea power and readiness and management that he isn’t looking to reopen the entire facility.
> 
> “The airstrip is in great shape,” Spencer said after the hearing when I asked about flying aircraft from the island. The Navy would likely have to pay to clean up one of the hangers, but the airport “has a fuel farm up there that Air Alaska is using to fuel its planes, it has de-icing platforms that we could use for fresh water washdowns for the P-8. They have lodging up there that is supposedly coming forward to us on a rental availability, so it really isn’t a big bill.”
> Navy photo
> 
> Navy Secretary Richard Spencer speaks to sailors.
> 
> In recent years the _US has spent millions of dollars to fix up another Cold War-era airfield — Naval Air Station Keflavik in Iceland — to accommodate P-8s to keep watch on Russian submarine activity in the North Atlantic between Greenland, Iceland, and the United Kingdom. The waterway — dubbed the GIUK Gap — is the primary outlet for Russian subs moving from their northern ports into the Atlantic_ [emphasis added].
> 
> The Pentagon has grown increasingly concerned over ceding ground to Russia and China in the Arctic, as both countries are outpacing the US in building icebreakers to help move ships and supplies to far-flung outposts as the region’s ice disappears due to global warming.
> 
> Spencer told lawmakers “our Russian friends are warming up five airstrips and 10,000 Spetsnaz troops [in the Arctic] for quote unquote search and rescue. The Chinese are up there. Everybody is up there.”
> 
> “Everybody but us,” retorted Alaska Sen. Dan Sullivan...
> 
> The Navy isn’t the only service looking to beef up its presence in Alaska. The _Air Force suggested recently it is looking to move some of the F-22s made homeless after Hurricane Michael battered Tyndall Air Base in Florida to Alaska’s Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson_ [emphasis added]...
> 
> Adak, a 3-hour flight west from Anchorage deep in the Bering Sea, would allow US aircraft to not only push deeper and more consistently into the Arctic, but _give US spy planes a new base from which to keep an eye on Russia’s Pacific Fleet and the increasing number of Chinese subs prowling the Pacific_ [emphasis added]...
> https://breakingdefense.com/2018/12/navy-looking-to-fly-p-8s-from-cold-war-era-base-in-alaska/



How focused on sub-hunting in North Atlantic will RCN and RCAF be in future?

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

One trusts USN thinking mainly of NATO's European Arctic:



> The Navy Is Gearing Up for 'Leaner, Agile' Operations in Arctic, North Atlantic
> 
> This is not your grandfather's 2nd Fleet.
> 
> The Navy's newest combatant command will be "leaner, agile and more expeditionary" than the U.S. 2nd Fleet that was deactivated in 2011, Rear Adm. John Mustin, the fleet's deputy commander, told attendants Wednesday at the Surface Navy Association's annual symposium.
> 
> The 2nd Fleet, which the Navy re-established in May, is designed to assert U.S. presence in the Atlantic and support operations in the North Atlantic and Arctic. While its actual makeup is still in the works, it is _expected to reach initial operational capability this summer.
> 
> When it does, it will be a small fighting force_ [emphasis added] that has taken lessons from the service's overseas fleets and II Marine Expeditionary Force, Mustin said.
> 
> "The focus of 2nd Fleet is to develop and dynamically employ maritime forces ready to fight across multiple domains in the Atlantic and Arctic," he said.
> 
> According to the service, the fleet will serve as the maneuver arm for U.S. Navy North in the Western Atlantic, "ensuring freedom of the sea, lines of communication and executing operational missions and exercises as assigned."
> 
> It also will serve as a maneuver arm for U.S. Naval Forces Europe in the Eastern and North Atlantic.
> 
> The idea is that the fleet will focus on force employment, capable of deploying rapidly, regardless of area of operations.
> 
> "When I say lean, what does that mean? The staff complement is organized and billeted to be operational. The majority of staff will focus on operations, intelligence, plans and training," Mustin said.
> 
> The Navy first established the 2nd Fleet in the 1950s, a response to deter Soviet interest in the Atlantic, especially Europe. It was disbanded in 2011, and most of its assets and personnel were folded into Fleet Forces Command.
> 
> But _growing concern over potential Russian dominance in the North Atlantic and Arctic prompted Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson to reactivate the unit_ [emphasis added].
> 
> 2nd Fleet version 2.0, however, won't look much like its historic predecessor.
> 
> Mustin said the command staff will be small, currently consisting of 85 members. The full number is still being determined, a 2nd Fleet spokeswoman said.
> 
> And while technically it will be headquartered in Norfolk, Virginia, Mustin said sailors can expect that it will have the ability to deploy its command-and-control element forward, with a small team operating forward from a command ship or "austere offshore location."
> 
> The _command also will integrate reserve forces on an as-needed basis and bolster its staff with personnel from allied nations, he added_ [emphasis added, RCN?].
> 
> "This is not your grandfather's 2nd Fleet or, as my staff likes to point out, my father's 2nd Fleet," Mustin said.
> 
> It will resemble overseas fleets, he said, which means it will become responsible for forces entering the integrated phase of composite unit training exercises, and "we will own them through deployment and sustainment."
> 
> The _ships will fall under operational control of U.S. Fleet Forces Command, but tactical control will be delegated to 2nd Fleet_ [emphasis added].
> 
> Standing up a fleet within a year has been a challenge, Mustin said, but there's excitement surrounding the concept. He noted that many surface warfare officers interested in being assigned to the command had approached him at the symposium.
> 
> "It's fast and furious, but we are getting there," he said.
> 
> At the symposium, some observers questioned how integration will work with other naval fleets with overlapping areas of responsibility.
> 
> Vice Adm. Lisa Franchetti, commander of 6th Fleet, said the integration will be seamless.
> 
> "Our idea is not to make a line in the water. When you make lines, adversaries exploit them. Our idea is to figure out how to flow forces and how to address anything that flows our way," she said.
> https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/01/16/navy-gearing-leaner-agile-operations-arctic-north-atlantic.html



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Retired AF Guy

Interesting video about the Russian Akula class submarines. 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26261/video-takes-you-inside-russias-beast-devision-of-akula-class-nuclear-fast-attack-subs


----------



## MarkOttawa

ASW facility near Norfolk, Virginia--RCN and RCAF?



> US, UK celebrate expanded undersea surveillance capabilities
> 
> The US and UK can now benefit from a new state-of-the-art Integrated Undersea Surveillance System operations floor at Naval Ocean Processing Facility (NOPF) Dam Neck, say the US Navy.
> 
> The US Navy say that the new operations floor comes equipped with improved surveillance technologies for faster input and analysis of international waters, providing vital information for the United States and the United Kingdom.
> 
> “The new operations watch floor is a fantastic addition to our capabilities,” said Cmdr. Aaron Holdaway in a release, commanding officer NOPF Dam Neck.
> 
> “This is cutting-edge technology that has been years in the making between the United Kingdom and the United States to develop and to get installed into this building. It comes along with new software, new hardware and new mission capabilities marking a true achievement between our two countries.”
> 
> The _surveillance team collaborates with the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force to conduct wide area maritime surveillance, providing critical information to both countries_ [emphasis added].
> 
> “The Sailors and Airmen, both US and UK, are what makes NOPF Dam Neck such a formidable asset in the battle for undersea dominance,” said Rear Adm. Paul Halton, OBE, Commander, Maritime Operations Royal Navy...
> 
> According to the release:
> 
> “The NOPF team works tirelessly, 24/7, 365 days a year, to monitor the ocean night and day in the spirit of the undersea warrior motto, ‘Nyns Us Convya Y’n Downder,’ which translates from Cornish to ‘No Sanctuary in the Deep.’..
> 
> The NOPF international team also has direct links to associated surveillance towed array sensor system (SURTASS) ships, gathering long-term acoustic, oceanographic, and hydrographic information.
> https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-uk-celebrate-expanded-undersea-surveillance-capabilities/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Eye In The Sky

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> ASW facility near Norfolk, Virginia--RCN and RCAF?
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



According to the article, we didn't pay and didn't want to play.  Is anyone surprised we're not 'part of the team'?   :dunno:

Maybe we've got a few exchange positions (I've no idea, truthfully...) but that isn't really...well, anything, really.


----------



## NavyShooter

This sort of thing used to be run through Trinity...perhaps after butt-wad committed treason, they deliberately left us out?

Perhaps deservedly so?


----------



## Sub_Guy

We have sailors at the facility in Whidbey Island, WA.


----------



## MarkOttawa

Revived USN Second Fleet ready to go, Russkies much in mind (and parts of Arctic):



> U.S. 2nd Fleet Declares Operational Capability Ahead of Major European Exercise
> 
> NAVAL STATION NORFOLK, Va. – A year after it was established, the reborn U.S. 2nd Fleet has reached an initial operational capability ahead of leading a major European exercise next month.
> 
> The designation means the command, led by Vice Adm. Andrew “Woody” Lewis, will be able to command and control naval forces on its own, the Navy said.
> 
> “U.S. 2nd Fleet exercises operational and administrative authorities over assigned ships, aircraft and landing forces on the East Coast and the North Atlantic. Additionally, it plans and conducts maritime, joint and combined operations as well as trains and recommends certification of combat-ready naval forces for maritime employment and operations around the globe,” reads a statement from 2nd Fleet.
> “By focusing on the high-end training and employment of assigned assets, the new 2nd Fleet will be postured to support the employment of forces, whether that is on the western side of the Atlantic, the eastern side of the Atlantic or up into the Arctic,” read a statement from 2nd Fleet.
> 
> Announced in May 2018, the new numbered fleet was created as the Russian submarine threat in the Atlantic has grown, with _Moscow fielding a new and more capable fleet of attack boats armed with long-range cruise missiles that can threaten mainland Europe_ [emphasis added--and North America]. The activation of the command followed the declaration of a new era of great power competition by then-Secretary of Defense James Mattis that put Russia and China at the forefront of U.S. planning.
> 
> “The North Atlantic has some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes, and with the opening of waterways in the Arctic, this traffic will only grow,” Lewis said in a statement. “This is a fact acknowledged by both our allies and competitors, and as such, it is critically important U.S. 2nd Fleet reinvigorates the way our forces are employed in this influential theater.”
> 
> While the boundaries and overlap of responsibility of 2nd Fleet and the Italy-based U.S. 6th Fleet are still in flux, there are _indications that 2nd Fleet will command and control forces from Norfolk, past the Greenland-Iceland-U.K. gap and into the Arctic and Barents Seas to support a theater anti-submarine warfare mission_ [emphasis added].
> 
> The declaration comes ahead of next month’s Baltic Operations (BALTOPS) exercise, which will be led by 2nd Fleet and include NATO and other partner nations centered around the Baltic Sea...
> https://news.usni.org/2019/05/29/u-s-2nd-fleet-declares-operational-capability-ahead-of-major-european-exercise



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## tomahawk6

Admiral Gorshkov and escorts entered Havana harbor. Nice looking frigate.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/advanced-russian-warship-armed-with-cruise-missiles-docks-in-havanas-harbor/ar-AADpmeZ?ocid=spartanntp


----------



## garb811

Fire kills 14 Russian sailors amid submarine speculation


> Fire broke out on one of the Russian navy's deep-sea research submersibles, and toxic fumes from the blaze killed 14 sailors aboard, Russia's Defence Ministry said Tuesday, although it released few details about the disaster or the vessel involved.
> 
> The Defence Ministry did not say how many sailors were aboard the vessel during Monday's fire, whether there were any survivors or if it was submerged at the time. But Russian media reported it was the country's most secret submersible, a nuclear-powered vessel designed for sensitive missions at great depths.
> 
> President Vladimir Putin, who came under criticism for his handling of the Kursk nuclear submarine disaster in 2000 that killed 118 sailors, cancelled a scheduled appearance and immediately summoned Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu for a briefing on the blaze, which was under investigation.
> ...



More at link.


----------



## tomahawk6

RIP and prayers for their families.


----------



## Ping Monkey

_Somebody give that walrus a medal!  _   

*Walruses Have Attacked And Sunk a Russian Navy Boat in The Arctic *

https://www.sciencealert.com/a-walrus-attacked-and-managed-to-sink-a-russian-navy-boat-in-the-arctic



> RYAN PICKRELL, BUSINESS INSIDER
> 
> 24 SEP 2019
> 
> In a kind of odd man-versus-nature moment, a Russian navy boat was attacked and sunk by a walrus during an expedition in the Arctic, the Barents Observer reported Monday.
> 
> The Altai, a tugboat of the Russian navy's Northern Fleet, sailed to the Franz Josef Land archipelago in the Arctic carrying researchers from the Russian Geographical Society.
> 
> "The polar latitudes are fraught with many dangers," the research group posted in a recent press update.
> 
> One of those dangers is apparently walruses, a monstrously large animal that can weigh up to a few thousand pounds and can be quite ferocious when threatened.
> 
> To get ashore from the Altai, the researchers and other expedition participants had to rely on smaller landing craft.
> 
> During one landing, the "group of researchers had to flee from a female walrus, which, while protecting its cubs, attacked an expedition boat," the Northern Fleet said.
> 
> The navy added that "serious troubles were avoided thanks to the clear and well-coordinated actions of the Northern Fleet service members, who were able to take the boat away from the animals without harming them."
> 
> The Barents Observer reports that a drone was being operated in close proximity to the walruses. It is unclear if this is what triggered the aggression.
> 
> While the Russian military makes no mention of any equipment losses, the Geographical Society had a bit more to say on what happened.
> 
> "Walruses attacked the participating boat," the research group explained. "The boat sank, but the tragedy was avoided thanks to the clear actions of the squad leader. All the landing participants safely reached the shore."
> 
> This wasn't the Russian navy's first run-in with walruses.
> 
> This past May, photos believed to be from 2006 surfaced online of a large walrus napping on top of a Russian submarine.


----------



## MarkOttawa

Revived USN Second Fleet very serious about North Atlantic, GIUK Gap--along with Royal Navy. Why don't RCN/RCAF say more publicly about ASW there? To my mind again primary mission for our Navy as it was during Cold War. And keep in mind the cruise missile threat from Russkie subs:



> 2nd Fleet Leads Naval Forces From Iceland
> 
> KEFLAVIK, Iceland (NNS) -- U.S. 2nd Fleet (C2F) has temporarily established an expeditionary Maritime Operations Center (MOC) in Keflavik, Iceland, to provide the U.S. Naval Forces Europe (NAVEUR) commander an additional ability to lead forces from a forward-operating location.
> 
> “I welcome C2F back to the European theater for the second time this year,” said Adm. James G. Foggo III, commander, Naval Forces Europe and Africa. “The additive capacity that 2nd Fleet brings to the European theater when operating forward alongside U.S. 6th Fleet (C6F) contributes to the overall success of our naval forces’ ability to address challenges and threats to safety and security in the maritime domain.”
> 
> The expeditionary MOC, made up of about 30 members of C2F staff, has the ability to command and control forces, provide basic indicators and warnings for situational awareness, and is able to issue orders while maintaining reach-back capability to C2F’s headquarters in Norfolk, Virginia.
> 
> “Iceland is a key ally, and its strategic location in the North Atlantic provides a perfect opportunity to test out our expeditionary MOC for the first time,” said Vice Adm. Andrew Lewis, commander, U.S. 2nd Fleet. “Operating out of Iceland reinforces our partnership while allowing us to practice operating in an expeditionary manner and test our ability to surge forward.”
> 
> The C2F expeditionary MOC is executing command and control of ships assigned to the recently deployed Surface Action Group (SAG), which is comprised of the Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60) and the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers USS Lassen (DDG 82), USS Forrest Sherman (DDG 98), and USS Farragut (DDG 99), as well as embarked aircraft from Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM) 72.
> 
> While in the Atlantic, the SAG is operating in support of naval operations to maintain maritime stability and security, deter aggression, and defend U.S., allied, and partner interests.
> 
> C2F’s temporary operations out of Keflavik mark the second time the new fleet has operated at a forward location. C2F first demonstrated this expeditionary capability through command and control of exercise Baltic Operations (BALTOPS) in June 2019, when the majority of its staff embarked USS Mount Whitney (LCC 20).
> 
> “_Successful operations in the Arctic require practice, and we will take the lessons learned from this deployment to further refine the expeditionary MOC concept for future operations in the North Atlantic and Arctic regions_ [emphasis added],” said Capt. Chris Slattery, director, C2F expeditionary MOC.
> 
> The expeditionary MOC concept is scalable and temporary in nature. While the C2F expeditionary MOC is currently operating out of Iceland, there is no predetermined or permanent operating location in the European theater.
> 
> C2F exercises operational and administrative authorities over assigned ships, aircraft, and landing forces on the East Coast and the Atlantic. When directed, C2F conducts exercises and operations within the U.S. European Command AOR as an expeditionary fleet, providing NAVEUR an additional maneuver arm to operate forces dynamically in theater.
> 
> For more information, contact C2F public affairs at ashley.hockycko@navy.mil or mary.c.walsh1@navy.mil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ATLANTIC OCEAN (Sept. 16, 2019) The Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60), front, and the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers, USS Farragut (DDG 99), left, USS Forrest Sherman (DDG 98), right, and USS Lassen (DDG 82), back, steam in formation during a photo exercise, Sept. 16, 2019. Normandy is operating in the Atlantic in support of naval operations to maintain maritime stability and security in order to ensure access, deter aggression and defend U.S., allied and partner interests. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Michael H. Lehman/Released)_
> https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=110981



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

RCN-led NATO ASW exercise CUTLASS FURY 2019 off our east coast got publicity from,

1) NATO:
https://defpost.com/nato-nations-hone-anti-submarine-warfare-skills-during-exercise-cutlass-fury-2019/

2) USN:
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=110966 

but as far as I can see nothing from RCN. Odd.

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

USN surface ships returning to Arctic waters off Iceland, back to the GIUK gap:



> Navy warships roaming Arctic waters
> 
> Greeted by rough waves, guided-missile cruiser Normandy and the destroyer Farragut nosed inside the Arctic Circle this week, part of an ongoing effort by the Navy to rediscover its sea legs up north, U.S. 2nd Fleet leaders said Wednesday.
> 
> Second Fleet commander Vice Adm. Andrew “Woody" Lewis told reporters that the crews of the Virginia-based cruiser and the guided-missile destroyer — which is homeported in balmy Florida — are getting accustomed to sailing seas that often become cold and windswept.
> 
> “Successful operations in the Arctic require practice,” he said.
> 
> Navy officials declined to pinpoint where in the Arctic his warships are roaming, but 2nd Fleet stood up an expeditionary Maritime Operations Center in Keflavik, Iceland.
> 
> Helmed by Capt. Chris Slattery, it’s coordinating the operations of the Normandy and Farragut but guided-missile destroyers Forrest Sherman and Lassen won’t join them above the Arctic Circle.
> 
> The four form a Surface Action Group controlled by 2nd Fleet. They were supposed to deploy as part of the Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group but the flagship flattop returned to Norfolk last month following reports of electrical glitches.
> 
> ...to operate in the polar region, sailors and their offices must master navigation, logistics, communications and medical support in cold and austere areas, Slattery said.
> 
> The _Navy resurrected 2nd Fleet in 2018 to focus more forces on the North Atlantic and portions of the Arctic, what was an underwater thoroughfare for Soviet submarines during the Cold War_ [emphasis added].
> 
> Lewis said Wednesday that the SAG’s deployment has yet to encounter any Russian vessels.
> 
> “I’m sure the longer we stay up there the opportunity would increase…but for now the Normandy and Farragut are training,” Slattery added...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The guided-missile cruiser Normandy transited the foggy North Atlantic Ocean on Monday [Sept. 23]. The Ticonderoga-class warship is now operating inside the Arctic Circle. (Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Michael H. Lehman/Navy)_
> https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/09/25/navy-warships-roaming-arctic-waters/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## kratz

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> RCN-led NATO ASW exercise CUTLASS FURY 2019 off our east coast got publicity from,
> 
> 1) NATO:
> https://defpost.com/nato-nations-hone-anti-submarine-warfare-skills-during-exercise-cutlass-fury-2019/
> 
> 2) USN:
> https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=110966
> 
> but as far as I can see nothing from RCN. Odd.
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Trident newspaper:  Cutlass Fury 19, Sept 23rd 2019


----------



## MarkOttawa

kratz: Thanks--but nothing at RCN or CAF/DND websites. Still odd.

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## The Bread Guy

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> … as far as I can see nothing from RCN. Odd.


A lack of news releases _may_ be the Caretaker Convention in play during the election campaign period - although I note some mentions/posts on the ex on the Navy's FB feed.  Same with info still streaming out on Op UNIFIER via their FB feed.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

And this from CF19.

https://www.facebook.com/CanadianForces/videos/580485589154716/

https://www.facebook.com/MaritimeForcesAtlantic/photos/a.369841966387927/2745002628871837/?type=3&theater


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Article Link

*New Russian Attack Sub Enters Sea Trials *

The first of six diesel-electric attack subs destined for Russia’s Pacific Fleet has entered state trials, according to a source. 

The first improved Project 636.3 Kilo-class (aka Vashavyanka-class) diesel-electric attack submarine (SSK), the Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, destined for service in Russia’s Pacific Fleet, has reportedly entered state trials earlier this month, according to a source in the Russian defense industry.

“The Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky will today sail to the Gulf of Finland for the first stage of state trials,” the source was quoted as saying by TASS news agency on October 2. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) has not officially confirmed the information.

The Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky was officially launched on March 28 of this year.

“A contract for the construction of submarines for the Pacific Fleet was signed in September 2016 at the Army forum,” the head of Admiralty shipyard, Alexander Buzakov, was quoted as saying during the launch ceremony. “In 2019, the submarine will be delivered to the Pacific Fleet.”

However, according to a 2018 report by the Admiralty shipyard in Saint Petersburg the delivery date of the first SSK has been pushed back to November 2020. The first two Project 636.3 Kilo-class SSKs—the Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and the Volkhov—are expected to join the Pacific Fleet in 2020 and 2021 respectively.

All six SSKs destined for service in the Pacific Fleet are slated to be delivered to the Russian Navy by the end of 2025. Russian Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief Igor Mukhametshin stated at the March 28 ceremony: “I am confident that we will complete this series by 2025 and all the submarines will arrive at their permanent bases by that time.”

The improved Project 636.3 Kilo-class SSKs—dubbed “Black Holes” by the U.S. Navy—are extremely quiet, as I explained previously:

“The Project 636.3 Kilo-class is an improved variant of the original Project 877 Kilo-class design. The updated version is slightly longer in length — the sub’s submerged displacement is around 4,000 tons — and feature improved engines, an improved combat system, as well as new noise reduction technology.”

Additionally, I noted:

“ The submarine has a crew of around 50 and can conduct patrols for up to 45 days. The improved Kilo-class can fire both torpedoes and cruise missiles, launched from one of six 533-millimeter torpedo tubes.  The submarine has primarily been designed for anti-submarine and anti-surface ship warfare. However, it can also attack land targets.  ”

Project 636.3 Kilo-class SSKs reportedly boast a special anechoic coating applied on the outer hull surface to reduce noise emanating from its interior. 

Also, the SSKs main propulsion plant is isolated on a rubber base in order to prevent vibrations. Notably, the SSK class does not feature an air-independent propulsion system, which reduces the submarine’s overall stealth capabilities.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Article Link

Russian subs honing stealth skills in major North Atlantic drill, says Norwegian intel 


October 29, 2019  

The aim of the massive operation is to get as far out to the North Atlantic as possible without being discovered by NATO, the intelligence service informs to NRK. Such maneuvers haven’t been seen from the Northern Fleet since the days of the Cold War. 

The operation started early last week, before Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Commander of the Northern Fleet, Vice-Admiral Aleksandr Moiseyev visited Kirkenes in northern Norway last Friday.

Lavrov had bilateral talks with his Norwegian counterpart Ine Eriksen Søreide and the two said at the following press conference that security situation in northern Europe was one talking point.

On Saturday, the Barents Observer reported about two of the Sierra-class submarines of the Northern Fleet sailing towards the Norwegian Sea for deep-sea dive tests and weapon tests. The two submarines are the «Pskov» and «Nizhny Novgorod», both built with a titanium-hull.

Eight of the ten submarines now at sea are nuclear-powered, the intelligence service says to NRK.

The intelligence service claim to have «a decent control» over where the submarines are in the sea.
•Two nuclear submarines are west of the Bear Island, between Svalbard and Finnmark, the northernmost part of mainland Norway.
•Two submarines are south and east of the Bear Island, guarding the entrance to the eastern part of the Barents Sea.
•Two Sierra-class nuclear submarines are training in the northern part of the Norwegian Sea.

Normally, the ballistic missile submarines are patrolling the eastern Barents Sea or under the ice-cap in the Arctic.

It is known that the Delta-IV class sub «Karelia» on October 17th launched a ballistic missile from the Barents Sea as part of the annual large-scale strategic missile drill, as reported by the Barents Observer. 

NRK reports that the operation is supposed to last for 60 days. If so, the submarines will be back in port before New Years celebrations and the Russian Orthodox Christmas.

The Norwegian intelligence service informs to NRK that Russia with the operation is aimed at showing the United States that the country is able to threaten the east coast by protecting the bastion in such a way that the ballistic missile submarines can launch nukes targeted at the USA.

Russia wants to test NATO’s ability to discover and handle such operation, the intelligence service tells NRK.

op:


----------



## MarkOttawa

More on Russian North Atlantic sub surge:



> Russia Sends Ten Subs Into North Atlantic In Drill Unprecedented In Size Since Cold War
> _It's thought that one of Russia's objectives for the drills is to signal to the U.S. it can operate where it needs to, when it needs to, and in force._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> After decades of atrophy, the U.S. and its allies are slowly rebuilding their anti-submarine warfare capabilities in and around the GIUK Gap. Most notably, the US Navy has bolstered its detachment of P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft that operate out of Iceland. The US Navy has also reactivated the 2nd Fleet and has greatly increased patrols and exercises in the North Atlantic...
> https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/30728/russia-sends-ten-subs-into-north-atlantic-in-drill-unprecedented-in-size-since-cold-war
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how come the RCN says almost nothing publicly about the Russian sub (including with cruise missiles) resurgence in the North Atlantic, when during the cold war this region was the focus of the RCN's efforts? And especially when the USN, the Brits and the Norwegians have for some time made a lot of public noise about the matter.
> https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/30728/russia-sends-ten-subs-into-north-atlantic-in-drill-unprecedented-in-size-since-cold-war
Click to expand...


Mark
Ottawa


----------



## OldSolduer

Maybe they have a "Red October" on their hands??


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Maybe the RCN hasn't said anything because they haven't been all that involved in tracking sub-surface contacts "up there" in recent years... 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11283926/Britain-forced-to-ask-Nato-to-track-Russian-submarine-in-Scottish-waters.html

_Maritime patrol aircraft from France, America and Canada flew to Scotland to join Royal Navy warships hunting for the suspected submarine after it was spotted at sea, west of Scotland _

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/royal-navy-relied-on-nato-to-protect-british-waters-20-times-in-2015-a6870686.html

_The US deployed 11 maritime patrol aircraft in 2015, while other NATO allies, including Canada, France and Germany, had deployed 10 aircraft between them._

I'm grateful the RAF was MPA-less, personally.  I love Scotland...and Norway and Iceland!  

Another asset to be added to the hunts:  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-50233941?fbclid=IwAR2vQTIPOojIsbQOHGeSUEJQSat8O0g0Xd0zT5Hm2OSTcwsXSKgojZGXsto

* the RFN SSN in the pic above is looking in rough shape...that's good for NATO.


----------



## Colin Parkinson

yea, just a few tiles missing. I bet they don't go as deep as they could back in the day.

You might want to check out these photo's as well https://www.facebook.com/Military9Army/photos/a.758412211030148/758412987696737/?type=3&theater


----------



## CBH99

With a hull looking that jagged & uneven, must not be the quietest thing in the water by a long shot...?


Might still be tricky to find if it's "somewhere" in the Atlantic.  But with a reasonable idea of where it could be, can't imagine it would be all that stealthy looking like that


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Missing tiles could result in more flow noise, and tiles can be used to keep noise from leaving the hull into the water mass as well so...could increase prob of detection.  Acoustics isn't my SME area, I am more of an...apprentice.


----------



## Spencer100

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31040/russia-is-eying-more-armed-icebreakers-after-launching-missile-toting-arctic-patrol-ship

Look very much like the AOPS.  But with bigger guns


----------



## tomahawk6

The USCG is warning about a Russian spy ship operating in an unsafe manner opposite A USN sub base.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/russia-spy-ship-east-coast-guard


----------



## The Bread Guy

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The USCG is warning about a Russian spy ship operating in an unsafe manner opposite A USN sub base.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/russia-spy-ship-east-coast-guard


What's Russian for "don't drink & spy"?  ;D


----------



## tomahawk6

They are also in range of Halifax.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

AGIs tend to make a PITA of themselves.   ;D

Remember one ex, transitting out to our box...on the climb to transit altitude, looking around with EO and voila! there's a Moma steaming along about 8kts among some fishers.   :Tin-Foil-Hat:


----------



## MarkOttawa

More on revived US Second Fleet and threat from Russkie subs (note cruise missiles)--about which RCN seems strangely silent to me, especially as Brits and Norwegians are also talking about it a lot:



> U.S. Fleet Created to Counter Russian Subs Now Fully Operational
> 
> The Navy’s fleet created to beef up its Atlantic presence against Russia is now fully operational, according to a Tuesday statement from the service.
> 
> Announced in May 2018, Norfolk, Va.-based U.S. 2nd Fleet was stood up after the release of the latest National Security Strategy that named Russia and China as the primary focus of American military concern and as the Russian submarine force has grown more sophisticated and capable.
> 
> “Within an increasingly complex global security environment, our allies and competitors alike are well aware that many of the world’s most active shipping lanes lie within the North Atlantic,” Commander Vice Adm. Andrew Lewis said in the statement. “Combined with the opening of waterways in the Arctic, this competitive space will only grow, and 2nd Fleet’s devotion to the development and employment of capable forces will ensure that our nation is both present and ready to fight in the region if and when called upon.”
> 
> Unlike the other numbered fleets in the U.S. Navy, 2nd Fleet does not have fixed geographic boundaries. It is designed to provide an unbroken oversight for high-end units operating throughout the Atlantic and a limited role in training. The Navy hasn’t confirmed the size of the command, but the initial order signed by then-Secretary of the Navy Richard V. Spencer called for a command of about 250 people – significantly smaller than the other numbered fleets.
> 
> “[Second Fleet] will _primarily focus on forward operations and the employment of combat-ready naval forces in the Atlantic and Arctic_ [emphasis added], and to a smaller extent, on force generation and the final training and certification of forces preparing for operations around the globe,” reads the statement.
> 
> The *new, unbounded arrangement allows the Navy to provide continuous command and control from the East Coast through the Greenland, Iceland, U.K. (GIUK) gap and into the Arctic and Barents seas* [emphasis added]. Second Fleet has highlighted its ability to deploy expeditionary command and control teams forward to keep ties back to Norfolk.
> 
> “Building its expeditionary capability, C2F established a Maritime Operations Center (MOC) this past September in Keflavik, Iceland. This forward operating MOC, made up of approximately 30 members of C2F staff, possessed the ability to command and control forces, provide basic indicators and warnings for situational awareness, and issue orders while maintaining reach-back capability to C2F headquarters,” reads a statement.
> 
> _In addition to leading 2nd Fleet, Lewis also commands Joint Force Command Norfolk as part of the overall NATO military command structure_ [emphasis added].
> 
> The _Navy has been coy about the thrust of the 2nd Fleet missions, but several sources have confirmed to USNI News the focus of the fleet is to provide a theater-wide command control for anti-submarine warfare targeting the Russians.
> 
> New Russian attack submarines are equipped with a new generation of land-attack missiles with ranges that put the majority of European capitals at risk_ [emphasis added--and eastern North America]. The Kremlin is also developing a new breed of high-speed, nuclear-tipped torpedo.
> 
> Navy leaders have recently highlighted the increase in Russian submarine activity.
> 
> “We’re seeing a surge in undersea activity from the Russian Federation navy that we haven’t seen in a long time. Russia has continued to put resources into their undersea domain; it’s an asymmetric way of challenging the West and the NATO alliance, and actually they’ve done quite well,” Adm. James Foggo, the commander of U.S. Naval Forces Europe and Africa and NATO’s Allied Joint Force Command Naples, said earlier this month. “We in the United States submarine force still enjoy the competitive edge, I think we’re the best in the world and we need to stay that way.”
> 
> The announcement follows the May declaration of initial operational capability, just ahead of the 2nd Fleet-led Baltic Operations 2019 (BALTOPS) exercise in the Baltic Sea.
> 
> Security concerns have ratcheted up in the Atlantic theater since the initial stand-up of 2nd Fleet in May to the point where the Navy has declined to publicly announce the recent deployments of the Truman Carrier Strike Group and the Bataan Amphibious Ready Group.
> https://news.usni.org/2019/12/31/u-s-fleet-created-to-counter-russian-subs-now-fully-operational



Mark
Ottawa


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## tomahawk6

This article concerns a special Russian submarine that caught fire in Norwegian waters with the loss of most of its small crew. What interested me was the subs construcrion of titanium speheres allowing for deep operating depths which would see the USN using deep diving unmanned vehicles.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-deadly-losharik-submarine-fire-and-russias-secret-undersea-agenda/ar-BB12VBAD?ocid=spartanntp


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## MarkOttawa

Interesting that there is no mention of RCN and North Atlantic ASW in this article:



> With challenges aplenty, Europe’s navies are coming to grips with high-end warfare
> 
> The former head of the U.S. Navy said in June testimony that as the service grapples with establishing the right type of force, it must account for the degraded capabilities of its allies, hinting at the once substantial Cold War-era European navies.
> 
> “In my mind [there’s] been an over-fixation on the total number of ships as opposed to the nuance numbers of specific types of ships that support viable operational plans,” _retired Adm. Gary Roughead, former chief of naval operations, said before the Seapower and Projection Forces Subcommittee of the House Armed Services Committee. “There’s also the need to understand just how small our allied navies have become, and in the past we have always looked to our allies to support us, but those navies are extraordinarily small_ [emphasis added].”
> 
> NATO has for years counted on the U.S. Navy as the centerpiece of its maritime forces, with the individual European navies serving as augmenting and supporting forces. And _in the post-Cold War era, Europe’s navies have focused on low-end missions like counterterrorism and counter-piracy_ [emphasis added].
> 
> And that has led to a precipitous decline in naval power available to surge in the event of a high-end conflict. In a 2017 study, the Center for a New American Security found that Europe’s combat power at sea was about half of what it was during the height of the Cold War.
> 
> “Atlantic-facing members of NATO now possess far fewer frigates — the premier class of surface vessels designated to conduct [anti-submarine warfare] ASW operations — than they did 20 years ago,” the study found.
> 
> Where they collectively had about 100 frigates in 1995, that number hovers at 51 today.
> 
> “Similarly, these nations had, in 1995, 145 attack submarines — those dedicated to anti-shipping and anti-submarine warfare missions — but that number has plummeted to a present low of 84,” the study found.
> 
> But _with the U.S. increasingly focused on Asia and amid tension within the alliance, Europe is coming to grips with the need to grow its forces and regain high-end capabilities it once had — a realization that also grew out of Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea from Ukraine_ [emphasis added].
> 
> “Throughout the 1990s, the focus was low-end missions: counter-piracy, counterterrorism, migration, search and rescue,” said Sebastian Bruns, head of the Center for Maritime Strategy and Security in Kiel, Germany. “And they did so with the legacy platforms of the 1980s and 1990s. You know, sending an ASW frigate to fight piracy, well that’s not a lot of bang for your buck.
> 
> “But 2014, that’s really the turnaround. I can’t think of any European nation that’s not on board with modernizing and growing their navies. But the long-lead times and having to replace the legacy units, it just takes a damned long time to turn the ship around.”
> 
> But an unfortunate side effect of the long-lead times involved in force design — sometimes a decade or more — is that pre-2014 ship designs that are coming into service now are ill-suited for the high-end fight, Bruns said.
> 
> The prime example of this mission mismatch is Germany’s 7,200-ton Baden-Württemberg-class frigate. It began entering service in 2019, but is designed for low-end operations.
> 
> “They were designed in the 2000s — they even call it a ‘stabilization frigate’ — and they’re coming online at a time where the German Navy needs them for presence, but they don’t have the kind of teeth you’d expect for a 7,000-ton frigate,” Bruns said. “They’re really capable for presence and maritime security operations, but of course that’s not so much the world we live in anymore.”
> 
> But new, more advanced frigates are starting to filter into the market. For example, in 2017, France’s Naval Group launched a five-hull intermediate air defense frigate program designed to intercept air threats with the Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles.
> 
> _And in January, the German Navy announced it had hired Dutch shipbuilder Damen to build at least four new MKS 180 frigates — a 9,000-ton ship designed to operate in waters with ice formations in a nod to the renewed competition in the Arctic_ [emphasis added].
> 
> *Payloads over platforms*
> 
> It’s not just new frigate designs that show Europe gradually upping its game.
> 
> Similar to the track the U.S. Navy has taken in fielding the Naval Strike Missile on its littoral combat ships and the Marine Corps’ approach to fielding it as a shore battery, European navies have begun to upgrade their ships’ systems in preparation for a high-end fight, said Jeremy Stöhs, a naval analyst who authored the book “Decline of European Naval Forces.”
> 
> “What we see now is since 2014 the focus is much more on sea control, lines of communication, territorial defense,” Stöhs said. “But because of the long-lead times, it is not just the ships they’re building; it’s the sensor suites, midlife upgrades, focusing again on sea-denial capabilities.”
> 
> Countries like the Black Sea and Scandinavian states are investing in anti-ship missiles and shore-based missile systems, he added, whereas a lot of those weapons were disbanded in the 1990s.
> 
> In 2016, for example, Sweden announced it was fielding coastal batteries with Saab’s RBS-15 anti-ship missile to defend its Baltic coast for the first time since 2000.
> 
> The Franco-British Sea Venom anti-ship missile is being designed to launch from a helicopter such as the U.K.’s Wildcat. It recently passed its first firing trial. The missile is currently designed for small, fast-moving vessels up to Corvette-sized warships.
> 
> In the Netherlands, the government announced in 2018 that their De Zeven Provinciën-class frigates would be ditching the venerable Harpoon missile for a new, more advanced surface-to-surface missile by 2024.
> 
> *Evolving threat, evolving politics*
> 
> Europe’s evolution toward more high-end naval battles in many ways mirrors the United States’ own pivot away from wars in the Middle East and Asia. But it’s also informed by changing politics.
> 
> _“I’m seeing European navies pivot back to the basics: How do we handle the GIUK [Greenland, Iceland and the United Kingdom] gap? How do we patrol the North Atlantic? Anti-submarine warfare, convoy escort, anti-surface warfare: They are starting to come back to that,” said Jerry Hendrix, an analyst with Telemus Group and a retired Navy captain. “And as you are starting to see the new heavy German designs, they’re coming back to focusing on a maritime challenger_ [emphasis added].”
> 
> But with this evolution has come a realization of Europe’s shortcomings and just how dependent those navies have been on the U.S. for some core capabilities.
> 
> “They’re starting to think about a naval force without the US present,” Hendrix said. “[German Chancellor] Angela Merkel has talked about the need for Europe to start thinking about going its own way. And by the way, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I do see the interests on the continent and the U.S. going in different directions.”
> 
> But a European naval construct without the U.S. would prove challenging, as many countries based their investments on the idea of a shared responsibility, with the U.S. as the main high-end capability provider, said Bryan Clark, a senior fellow at The Hudson Institute.
> 
> “NATO, in theory, still has the NATO strategic concept where different countries were going to specialize in different capabilities, which led to the Finns and Swedes really embracing amphibious capabilities for small-scale, special operations forces insertion. The Brits and Italians focused on ASW. But without the U.S. acting as the strategic centerpiece, the strategic concept starts to fall apart.
> 
> “The concept assumes you have someone that has a multimission capability that you can augment, as opposed to: ‘We’re going to pull all this together without the U.S. from a bunch of disparate countries with disparate capabilities.' ”
> 
> That situation means any NATO action with just European nations would need a lot of participation, he said.
> 
> “Before, if you had just the U.S. and three or four nations participating, you’d have a pretty robust, multimission capability” Clark said. “But without the U.S., you’d need half the alliance to contribute so as to not miss out on key mission areas.”
> 
> And without the robust U.S. logistics system, countries would have to replace not just the high-end weapons and sensors, but much of the support infrastructure as well. That could mean even more downward pressure on how much capability Europe can bring to bear.
> 
> “If you have to expend weapons or do extensive resupply or refueling, the whole model starts to break down,” Clark added. “The way the European navies are structured, they don’t have this end-to-end capability to deliver on all the support missions as well.
> 
> “So if they have to invest in a significant combat logistics force, with budgets for defense being limited, that’s going to mean their navies will potentially become even smaller.”
> https://www.defensenews.com/smr/transatlantic-partnerships/2020/06/22/with-challenges-aplenty-europes-navies-are-coming-to-grips-with-high-end-warfare/



Mark
Ottawa


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## Eye In The Sky

Article Link

Russian submarine surfaces near Alaska during war exercise

ANCHORAGE, Alaska — A Russian submarine surfaced near Alaska on Thursday during a Russian war game exercise, U.S. military officials said.

It was unclear why it surfaced.

The North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command are closely monitoring the submarine, Northern Command spokesman Bill Lewis said.

“We have not received any requests for assistance from the Russian Navy or other mariners in the area,” Lewis said from Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado. “We always stand ready to assist those in distress.”

Lewis declined to provide further details about the submarine, including its proximity to Alaska. He only said it was operating in international waters near Alaska.

“We closely track vessels of interest, including foreign military naval vessels, in our area of responsibility,” Lewis said.

The Russian military exercise is taking place in international waters, well outside the U.S. territorial sea, he said.

The presence of Russian military assets in the war games caused a stir for U.S. commercial fishing vessels in the Bering Sea on Wednesday, the U.S. Coast Guard said.

“We were notified by multiple fishing vessels that were operating out the Bering Sea that they had come across these vessels and were concerned. So they contacted us,” Coast Guard spokesman Kip Wadlow said earlier Thursday.

The Coast Guard contacted the Alaskan Command at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, which confirmed the ships were there as part of a pre-planned Russian military exercise that was known to some U.S. military officials, Wadlow said.

Wadlow did not have information about the scope of the exercise or how many Russian vessels were involved, referring those questions to the Alaskan Command.

Officials at the Anchorage base referred questions to Air Force officials at the U.S. Northern Command.


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## MarkOttawa

As for the Russian Navy exercise itself in Bering Sea:



> Russian navy conducts major maneuvers near Alaska
> 
> MOSCOW (AP) — The Russian navy conducted major war games near Alaska involving dozens of ships and aircraft, the military said Friday, the biggest such drills in the area since Soviet times.
> 
> Russia’s navy chief, Adm. Nikolai Yevmenov, said that more than 50 warships and about 40 aircraft were taking part in the exercise in the Bering Sea, which involved multiple practice missile launches.
> 
> “We are holding such massive drills there for the first time ever,” Yevmenov said in a statement released by the Russian Defense Ministry.
> 
> It wasn’t immediately clear when the exercises began or if they had finished.
> 
> _Yevmenov emphasized that the war games are part of Russia’s efforts to boost its presence in the Arctic region and protect its resources_ [emphasis added].
> 
> “We are building up our forces to ensure the economic development of the region,” he said. “We are getting used to the Arctic spaces.”
> 
> The Russian military has rebuilt and expanded numerous facilities across the polar region in recent years, revamping runways and deploying additional air defense assets.
> 
> Russia has prioritized boosting its military presence in the Arctic region, which is believed to hold up to one-quarter of the Earth’s undiscovered oil and gas. Russian President Vladimir Putin has cited estimates that put the value of Arctic mineral riches at $30 trillion.
> 
> _Russia’s Pacific Fleet, whose assets were taking part in the maneuvers, said the Omsk nuclear submarine and the Varyag missile cruiser launched cruise missiles at a practice target in the Bering Sea as part of the exercise_ [emphasis added].
> 
> The maneuvers also saw Onyx cruise missiles being fired at a practice target in the Gulf of Anadyr from the coast of the Chukchi Peninsula, it added.
> 
> As the exercise was ongoing, U.S. military spotted a Russian submarine surfacing near Alaska on Thursday. U.S. Northern Command spokesman Bill Lewis noted that the Russian military exercise is taking place in international waters, well outside U.S. territory.
> 
> Lewis said the North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command were closely monitoring the submarine. He added that they haven’t received any requests for assistance from the Russian navy but stand ready to assist those in distress.
> 
> _Russian state RIA Novosti news agency quoted Russia’s Pacific Fleet sources as saying that the surfacing of the Omsk nuclear submarine was routine_ [emphasis added].
> 
> It cited former Russian navy’s chief of staff, retired Adm. Viktor Kravchenko, as saying that by having the submarine surface in the area the navy may have wanted to send a deliberate signal.
> 
> “It’s a signal that we aren’t asleep and we are wherever we want,” RIA Novosti quoted Kravchenko as saying.
> 
> The presence of Russian military assets in the area caused a stir for U.S. commercial fishing vessels in the Bering Sea on Wednesday.
> 
> “We were notified by multiple fishing vessels that were operating out the Bering Sea that they had come across these vessels and were concerned,” U.S. Coast Guard spokesman Kip Wadlow said Thursday.
> 
> The Coast Guard contacted the Alaskan Command at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, which confirmed the ships were there as part of a pre-planned Russian military exercise that was known to some U.S. military officials, he said.
> 
> The Russian military has expanded the number and the scope of its war games in recent years as Russia-West relations have sunk to their lowest level since the Cold War after Russia’s 2014 annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, and other crises.
> https://apnews.com/1f6c6dceba65e893aeeee9dfa814ef8f



Mark
Ottawa


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## Cloud Cover

Have a look at what these guys are discussing at a Russian navy fan site. Interesting concept for ICBM, no? SLBM with a different meaning.  What about a container ship passing through waters in peacetime placing pressurized container can versions of pre-positioned VLS anti ship missiles within range of harbours and known transit points. Something China might do. Something perhaps already in place....


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## MarkOttawa

Note this is mostly about the Russkies’ own side of the Arctic:




> *Russia Elevates Importance of Northern Fleet Upgrading it to Military District Status*
> 
> Russia has upgraded the administrative status of its Northern Fleet for a second time in less than a decade. As of 1 January 2021 the Northern Fleet, whose area of operation includes the Arctic, has become its own military district.
> 
> In a further sign of the strategic importance of Russia’s Arctic military assets President Putin has upgraded the status of the Northern Fleet. The fleet, primarily based near Murmansk, which was previously upgraded and designated a Joined Strategic Command in 2014, now joins four other military districts in Russia. It consolidates a large part of Russia’s Arctic capabilities under one roof and contains territory of the Republic of Komi, the regions of Arkhangelsk and Murmansk and the Nenets Autonomous Region.
> 
> Per a presidential decree signed by President Putin on 21 December 2020 Russia’s Northern Fleet became its own military district on 1 January 2021. It represents the first time that a fleet’s standing is elevated to equal to that of the existing four military districts – West, South, East and Central.
> 
> The _Northern Fleet military district will be responsible for the Arctic, the Russia Arctic coastline, and the Northern Sea Route. The fleet’s main naval base Severomorsk is located near Murmansk and it maintains at least six additional bases across the district_ [emphasis added].
> 
> *A decade of revitalizing Northern Fleet*
> 
> According to security experts it represents a logical step which comes after more than a decade of investments in the fleet’s assets: revitalizing existing Arctic military bases and constructing new ones, constructing capable radar installations and stationing modern weaponry in the region.
> 
> “To a certain degree it’s an artificial act, it’s a recognition that offensive and defensive capabilities of the Northern Fleet represent one of the most important elements of the Russian military,” explains Rob Huebert, associate professor at the University of Calgary and a senior research fellow with the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies.
> 
> “The _Northern fleet is the Russian nuclear deterrent. Nuclear deterrence has been the number one issue and Russia has always been able to maintain and protect that deterrence _[emphasis added],” he continues.
> 
> The _modernization of the Northern Fleet’s assets and Arctic military bases over the past decade or so has followed a predictable sequence aimed at protecting vital infrastructure and ports, building up defensive Russian air capabilities – including the stationing of the advanced S-400 missile system_ [emphasis added] in the Arctic – and now adding and extending the reach of offensive capabilities.
> 
> *Adding offensive capabilities*
> 
> To that end the Russian Ministry of Defense announced that it _will equip the Northern Fleet with the hypersonic missile Kh-47M2 Kinzhal, also called Dagger. The nuclear-capable Dagger, which first flew in 2018, can travel up to ten times the speed of sound and travel up to 2,000 kilometers_ [emphasis added]. At such high speeds it represents a challenge for western missile defense systems…
> 
> Training of personnel and construction of infrastructure to operate the missile will begin in 2021. Russia will use MiG-31 fighters to carry Dagger far into the Arctic projecting the country’s power in the Arctic region, according to the Ministry. The _first squadron of Dagger-equipped MiGs will be stationed on the Kola Peninsula_ [emphasis added] and is part of the newly-created Northern Fleet military district…
> https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/ru...n-fleet-upgrading-it-military-district-status



Mark
Ottawa


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## Colin Parkinson

Also Russia, I suspect Putin will be unpleased, never a good thing.








						Russian CO Under Investigation for Stealing His Own Ship's Propellers
					

A Russian Navy officer is under investigation for conspiring to steal two bronze propellers from his...




					www.maritime-executive.com


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## Colin Parkinson

A US intelligence coup to convince Russia to spend their few naval dollars on a lemon appears to be successful 









						Russia 'building first fully stealth warship'
					

The Russian navy is building its first fully stealth warship to make it harder to detect, state media says.




					www.9news.com.au


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## MarkOttawa

Podcast from CGAI, in context of Ex Dynamic Mongoose (NATO Trains Crews in Anti-Submarine Warfare off Norway - Seapower): "In this new episode of Defence Deconstructed, David Perry speaks to Royal Canadian Navy Commander Peter Sproule about anti-submarine warfare."

__
		https://soundcloud.com/user-609485369%2Fdefence-deconstructed-canada-and-anti-submarine-warfare

Why does RCN _qua_ RCN say so little in public about key NATO ASW mission in North Atlantic?

Mark
Ottawa


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## Good2Golf

MarkOttawa said:


> Why does RCN _qua_ RCN say so little in public about key NATO ASW mission in North Atlantic?


Good OPSEC? 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## MarkOttawa

Good2Golf said:


> Good OPSEC? 🤷🏻‍♂️


Rather the Navy rarely even mentions in any official media releases (print or social media) that it's an important role for them. Unlike the USN or Royal Navy.

Mark
Ottawa


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## Eye In The Sky

MarkOttawa said:


> Why does RCN _qua_ RCN say so little in public about key NATO ASW mission in North Atlantic?



What is there for them to say?  Are they actually involved in the CAF ASW deployments in recent years?  Exercises are neat and all but...they're exercises.  MONGOOSE is MANTA, but in a different location.  Great exercises, but...still exercises.

Having been on more than one ASW Det...I've never done one with RCN or our MH folks involved.

That aside...ASW isn't something people are going to talk about in terms of...TTPs, etc.  "We do this, we do that...then this happens" stuff is strictly on the "need to know" basis.  As aircrew, we didn't even talk about it with the groundcrew who kept us flying...or in the bathroom down the hall from the crew rooms at the Sqn.  Cleaners and stuff, right?


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