# CBSA - Canada Boarder Services Agency ; Good? Bad?



## AFireinside13 (21 Aug 2005)

Hey guys, I work as a customs officer at Toronto Pearson. I hear ALOT of mixed emotions when people talk about the CBSA  . Just wondering your thoughts and opinions; please expand on your thoughts though, don't be like "customs suck". Why? What can we do to make things better? Are we equipped enough to look out for those "terrorists" and illegal guns being brought in (more so on the land boarders)


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## copper_43 (30 Aug 2005)

I don't mean to offend anyone but these are my observations on the CBSA:
- When you apply to the Border Service for a job you must have completed the Canadian Firearms Safety Course, << this course covers virtually nothing on Restricted or Prohibited Firearms (hand guns).  I have a few friends who work for the CBSA and they will tell you to look at the roof over the the vehicle inspection area for bullet holes, they then go on to say that each hole was put there by unqualified CBSA personnel because they can't handle guns. One agent actually fired a .44 through a gas tank when the gun fired as she picked it up with her finger on the trigger.
- My own experience in Pearson: After traveling to the Middle East on Air Canada and then back again, after being cleared in Tel Aviv (which is quite extensive) I was stopped by a screener in Pearson who ripped out the inside of my shaving kit bag because he saw a knife on the x-ray, the knife had a one inch blade and was totally rusted shut, I lost it years ago. He then proceeded to read me the riot act and told me my knife was confinscat ed.  On my flight out of Pearson I was handed a stainless steal knife for my supper with a 6 inch blade. What a joke.
- I also know of a man in his late 50s who tried to enter Canada at Windsor, he had a tool box in the back of his truck, upon searching the tool box it was discovered there was a machete blade rusted to the bottom of the box, 2 inspectors with the aid of a screw driver from the box, they pryed the rusted blade from the box.  Fined him for having this blade and banned him from Canada for 6 months.

How is it we are supposed to trust CBSA agents to identify "suspected terrorists" or "gun runners" when we don't hire experienced personnel to do the job?  At one time ex-military were sought for this type of work because they were mature, been around, familiar with weapons and explosives, been exposed to different cultures and it was hard to pull the shit over their eyes.  Now the CBSA seems to want people right out of school with little to no life experience, little knowledge of weapons, which is one of the things they are tasked with identifying and protecting Canadians from.

As most will admit, Canada does not feel threaten by terrorists, the hype in the papers is 80% that, hype.  I don't believe international terrorists are the problem, our problems are more local, gun and drug trafficking, illegal immigrants, etc...
If anyone really still thinks that "Terrorists" are the main threat they should check this link   www.reopen911.org   Its a real eye opener.

Canada can always use better training within any of its Federal Services, but it all comes back to the $$.  Really, if your a person who does not want detection in and out of the States do you really think they are dumb enough to risk customs when there are endless miles of open border which can be crossed quickly on a ATV then disappear in the matter of minutes.

Just my view.


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## George Wallace (30 Aug 2005)

You've raised a good question in why don't they actively hire ex-military personnel?  I know that there are already many ex-military working at the various ports of entry in capacities as Commissionaire's, Private Security and in the Fire Services.  I wonder why Canada Customs has no intent to actively hire former CF personnel on retirement or after serving one or two Basic Engagements.  As you mentioned, they are for the most part already experienced with weapons handling, dealing with other cultures, and if they had risen in rank above Cpl, quite adept at filling out reports and documentation.  

It seems that there is little cooperation or camaraderie between Federal Departments.  Each is their own Fiefdom.


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## George Wallace (30 Aug 2005)

Tom?


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## copper_43 (30 Aug 2005)

Just to add to the above, as of April 05 Canada Customs no longer pays its potential members to attend training.   You get a weekly allowance which is by no means a pay check, even our Military Basic Recruits get alot more.
Again I think makes it harder for maturer personnel to apply, they can't support a family and get the required training on what they are offering, thus only the students still connected to Mom and Dad typically apply.


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## Acorn (30 Aug 2005)

CBSA is no more as copper_43 describes as the Airborne Regiment is embodied in Clayton Matchee. Are there problems? Sure. CBSA needs some training, but one should recall that it is really only a merger of elements of other existing departments: Customs and Immigration.


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## Adam_18 (31 Aug 2005)

- When you apply to the Border Service for a job you must have completed the Canadian Firearms Safety Course, << this course covers virtually nothing on Restricted or Prohibited Firearms (hand guns).  I have a few friends who work for the CBSA and they will tell you to look at the roof over the the vehicle inspection area for bullet holes, they then go on to say that each hole was put there by unqualified CBSA personnel because they can't handle guns. One agent actually fired a .44 through a gas tank when the gun fired as she picked it up with her finger on the trigger.


 i wasnt aware that our customs agents were armed? and if they are not armed why would they take a firearmes saftey course?

cheers


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## Adam_18 (31 Aug 2005)

just as an after thought do you think customs agents should be armed? to my knowledge they only carried what most police officers would carry on their duty belts ( mace, baton, hand cuffs...ect...ect) but no fire arms. i think it would make their job a whole lot easier wouldnt it. they don't have guns when they're expected to apprehend wanted fugitives and felons and people smuggling firearms or drugs across the border. when the people they are trying to apprehend are armed?
doesnt make any sence to me...thats just my 2 cents...( if you count the last post thats 4 cents in total) heh heh


cheers


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## Fishbone Jones (31 Aug 2005)

I'm pretty sure that the app asks for the Restricted course. As to why? They confiscate all kinds of firearms daily at the border and have to know how to unload and handle them.


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## J.J (31 Aug 2005)

As an employee of the CBSA and in Windsor I can speak to the comments by copper_43. As Recce Guy stated Border Services Officer require the "Restricted PALS" for employment as we handle several different firearms. I have seen everything short of an M109 attempt to be smuggled into Canada.
_"When you apply to the Border Service for a job you must have completed the Canadian Firearms Safety Course, << this course covers virtually nothing on Restricted or Prohibited Firearms (hand guns).  I have a few friends who work for the CBSA and they will tell you to look at the roof over the the vehicle inspection area for bullet holes, they then go on to say that each hole was put there by unqualified CBSA personnel because they can't handle guns. One agent actually fired a .44 through a gas tank when the gun fired as she picked it up with her finger on the trigger_."
I have worked for Customs for several years at the 2 busiest ports in Canada and I can remember 1 accidental discharge, an officer was told by the traveler the shotgun was unloaded and did not check and shot the motor homes fridge. The reasoning behind the need for a formal firearms safety course. The officer was fired.

_"My own experience in Pearson: After traveling to the Middle East on Air Canada and then back again, after being cleared in Tel Aviv (which is quite extensive) I was stopped by a screener in Pearson who ripped out the inside of my shaving kit bag because he saw a knife on the x-ray, the knife had a one inch blade and was totally rusted shut, I lost it years ago. He then proceeded to read me the riot act and told me my knife was confiscated.  On my flight out of Pearson I was handed a stainless steal knife for my supper with a 6 inch blade. What a joke"_

Not CBSA, that would be airport security.

_"- I also know of a man in his late 50s who tried to enter Canada at Windsor, he had a tool box in the back of his truck, upon searching the tool box it was discovered there was a machete blade rusted to the bottom of the box, 2 inspectors with the aid of a screw driver from the box, they pryed the rusted blade from the box.  Fined him for having this blade and banned him from Canada for 6 months."_

That would be an illegal seizure and I have not seen something to that extreme. If the machete was in the driver's compartment and/or concealed, then it might be subject to seizure. If this did happen to the person you know, tell him to write a letter of complaint and if the facts are as you stated them, he will get his money back, an apology and the officers would face serious discipline.
Customs cannot ban anyone from Canada, Immigration can. They have 3 options;

Voluntary Withdrawal-if the traveller has a criminal record or other factors make him a "non-genuine visitor" Immigration can give him an allowed to leave. To re-enter Canada they have to follow the instruction given by the Immigration Officer;

Exclusion-They are excluded by Canada for a period of 1 year (it is only given in a 1 year increment). If they attempt re-entry they can be arrested and can be formally deported.

Deportation-The are banned from Canada for life

There are ways to get these orders cancelled and that is issued from the Federal Courts or the Immigration Minister.


You are right that the CBSA does not put the recruit on a payroll, they receive $125/week (and yes it is taxed). The reasoning behind this is that too many people were using Customs as a stepping stone to policing. As one of our K9 handlers put it, we are the "cop's farm team". CBSA now wants to hire people who want to be there.
With the comment about ex-military not being hired, is erroneous. At the Tunnel there are several ex-members and current reservists. 
1  PPCLI Sgt, 
1 PO2, 
1 2RCHA WO, 
1 Cpl 1 RCR, 
1 Cpl Med A
Also a recently retired Officer (rank unknown) from the Navy was just hired, she is currently in Rigaud.  These are the *recent* retiree's hired within the past 3 years.
For reservists there is a Capt, MWO, 2 Sgts, 1 PO2, 1 MCpl and 1 Cpl. That is for approx 125 employees, so I would say the military is well represented for Customs.
CBSA does hire a wide variety of people from different backgrounds, but something a lot of them have in common is formal post secondary education. No Offence George, but the reports that would be written by a Cpl would not be sufficient experience. Customs enforces over 70 pieces of legislation and must have a working knowledge of all of them. We must articulate our thoughts and suspicions on paper and in court. If you do not have the skills to do this, your job becomes very difficult and you will lose in court. That is one of the hardest parts of the job is to put on paper or in words your "gut instinct"


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## George Wallace (31 Aug 2005)

Thanks WR

No offence taken, but you may have noticed I said above the rank of Cpl, insinuating that they would have experience dealing with more administative matters as well as those darn PDR and PER creative writing stints.


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## J.J (31 Aug 2005)

:-[....As the kids say "My bad".....but I do believe that it would have to be a Snr NCO or an Officer who is well versed in administrative tasks to suceed.


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## mpitts (31 Aug 2005)

Is the CBSA still losing that many officers to police departments? I know about 8 years ago I saw/met a lot of former officers hired when I got onto the job with Peel Police, but I haven't seem to run into anybody lately.  Mind you there are plenty of departments to choose from.  I can't add to much on the good or bad side of things as I have not dealt to much with any of you guys both on a professional or personal level, however this may change once posted to PIA.


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## J.J (1 Sep 2005)

The local forces and the OPP are snatching up Custom Officers on every hiring rotation. Once we started enforcing the criminal code (July 2000), it is rare not to have a ex-Customs officer in a Windsor Police recruit class. A good portion of the county Police forces are ex-Customs.


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## mbhabfan (14 Jan 2006)

has anyone on here been to both Rigaud for the border services officer training and to BMQ?  Are the two courses similar in physical requirements?  How about as far as classroom course load, is one much different than the other?


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## J.J (15 Jan 2006)

The comparisons are oranges and apples.... Rigaud is academic intensive, with the only physical component being the use of force training. BMQ is not as academic, but much more physical. BMQ is an introduction to the "sub-culture" of the military and gives you the basics for being a soldier/sailor/airmen. In BMQ you are spoon fed the material and given several opportunities to pass if you fail. The CIRTP training is different, in that you are given the material, opportunity to read it and question the facilitators, study and then tested. The tests are both written and practical. If you fail any component, you fail the entire program and you are sent home without a job




.


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## mbhabfan (16 Jan 2006)

thank you very much that is the exact analysis I was looking for, greatly appreciated.


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## mbhabfan (16 Jan 2006)

WR any idea the pass rate at Rigaud?


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## J.J (16 Jan 2006)

An intake is usually 18 recruits per class and on average there are 1-2 failures.


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## anndy_wang00 (17 Jun 2014)

Just a little off topic but still related to recruiting. I am now a uniform personnel within the public service, would anyone know if we are able to get paid while on the training for CBSA in the 18 week duration? Greatly appreciated.


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## Robert0288 (17 Jun 2014)

I believe there is still only a weekly stipend while at Riguad,


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