# DND CIVILIAN RECRUITMENT



## Future Officer (23 Jan 2017)

Hi everyone, 

I couldn't find a category for DND Civilian recruitment, so I put it here. 

I was hoping to get some information on what the recruitment process for DND Civilian employees is like. I have an interview in a few days in Ottawa for a role I have applied to about 7 months ago. The instructions I got so far have been somewhat vague. 

Also, I would appreciate if anyone can chime in about what it's like to work at DND, growth opportunities, management, tuition reimbursement, travel, etc...

Thanks in advance!


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## Occam (23 Jan 2017)

For which classification, and do you have any idea which part of DND?


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## Future Officer (23 Jan 2017)

Occam said:
			
		

> For which classification, and do you have any idea which part of DND?



Not sure what classification is, pay level maybe? PG-06 And it's for ADM Materiel


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## Occam (23 Jan 2017)

PG is the classification, 06 is the level.  That's procurement and finance.  Could be Air, Land, Sea, Major Projects.  PG-06 is as senior as they get, definitely management level.  For growth and advancement, I think you're looking at moving into the EX levels after that, not sure.  Procurement is definitely busy on the Navy side, the Air side doesn't seem too active, can't say much for the Army as they're not in our complex anymore since the fire at Louis St. Laurent building.  Major Projects is busy.  Travel depends largely on what you end up working on.  Can't speak too much to tuition reimbursement as I'm as edumacated as I'm going to get   ;D


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## Blackadder1916 (24 Jan 2017)

Steve Tay said:
			
		

> Not sure what classification is, pay level maybe? *PG-06* And it's for ADM Materiel



PG-06?  A pretty impressive (if at all possible?) entry to the PS for someone who only four years ago was in grade 11.  Are you sure that your interview is for a position at the PG-06 level?


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## Occam (24 Jan 2017)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> PG-06?  A pretty impressive (if at all possible?) entry to the PS for someone who only four years ago was in grade 11.  Are you sure that your interview is for a position at the PG-06 level?



Holy schnikey...good catch, Blackadder1916.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall for this interview...


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## da1root (24 Jan 2017)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> PG-06?  A pretty impressive (if at all possible?) entry to the PS for someone who only four years ago was in grade 11.  Are you sure that your interview is for a position at the PG-06 level?



They also posted in 2010 (1 year before they stated they were "turning 16 soon", so they would have still been 14) that they applied for ROTP at RMC...should be an interesting interview.


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## Nfld Sapper (24 Jan 2017)

Even more interesting is that the OP would have graduated High school 3 years ago or so... 



			
				Steve Tay said:
			
		

> Hello Folks,
> 
> I am an Ontario high school student, and I will be starting Grade 12 in Sept. 2013, and I am in the process of finding out where my post-secondary education is going to take place.



And PG-06 is a pay scale with Performance Pay - to apply to employees subject to the Performance Pay Regulations


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## Future Officer (26 Jan 2017)

You guys made me L.O.L. 

My younger sibling and I shared this account back in the day. Can't remember why  ;D

Anyways, the interview went great, it's a waiting game now.


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## SeaKingTacco (27 Jan 2017)

Congratulations and good luck!

It was fun, though, speculating on a 21 year old in a PG-06 interview.


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## KanD (7 Jul 2020)

Are there any resources/forums where civilian DND opportunities are posted?

I am looking to deploy as an EC-06 to DND within the NCR, ideally at NDHQ/Carling Campus.

Thank you in advance.


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## dapaterson (7 Jul 2020)

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/jobs/opportunities/government.html

There are very few EC positions in DND.


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## brihard (7 Jul 2020)

KanD said:
			
		

> Are there any resources/forums where civilian DND opportunities are posted?
> 
> I am looking to deploy as an EC-06 to DND within the NCR, ideally at NDHQ/Carling Campus.
> 
> Thank you in advance.



EC can cover a lot of different sorts of jobs. What are you looking at more specifically?


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## KanD (7 Jul 2020)

Brihard said:
			
		

> EC can cover a lot of different sorts of jobs. What are you looking at more specifically?



Understand that EC boxes/positions can be a mixed bag. I'm interested in a policy/intelligence analyst or advisor role.

I currently work as a policy advisor and wanted to make the jump over to DND civilian side given where my personal interests lie and the overall DND/CAF mandate.


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## dapaterson (7 Jul 2020)

That's primarily within ADM(POL), then; there are also a handful within ADM(Fin) working areas like TB submissions.  There may also be some within CFINTCOM; I don't know their inner structures well.

My understanding is that most policy folks are developed in-house in DND through the PORP.  I do not know of many lateral moves.


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## brihard (7 Jul 2020)

KanD said:
			
		

> Understand that EC boxes/positions can be a mixed bag. I'm interested in a policy/intelligence analyst or advisor role.
> 
> I currently work as a policy advisor and wanted to make the jump over to DND civilian side given where my personal interests lie and the overall DND/CAF mandate.



If you want to move into intelligence analysis, consider RCMP as well. They have a number of EC intelligence analysts in both tactical/strategic, across the spectrum of both traditional organized crime and national security in Ottawa, a lot of pretty interesting stuff. Though if you haven’t done intelligence before, don’t expect to enter it as a 6... 4 or potentially 5.


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## blacktriangle (7 Jul 2020)

There used to be AS-05 intelligence analysts within CFINTCOM (and I believe CDI before it) although the ones I knew of had related experience before getting the jobs. 

I'm not sure of the current situation, but it looks like they have a development program for intelligence analysts where you enter as an EC-02 and graduate as an EC-05 within 3 years.


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## KanD (7 Jul 2020)

> That's primarily within ADM(POL), then; there are also a handful within ADM(Fin) working areas like TB submissions.  There may also be some within CFINTCOM; I don't know their inner structures well.
> 
> My understanding is that most policy folks are developed in-house in DND through the PORP.  I do not know of many lateral moves.



I understood the same and assume that ADM(POL) is the equivalent of a Strategic Policy shop responsible for Cabinet affairs and in-house policy coordination, while ADM(FIN) is the CFO shop responsible for TB subs and the departmental supplementary processes.

I was told that PORP departures was high after graduating from the EC Development Programme (ECDP) given the shortage of EC-04/05/06 across Canada. Adding to that the NDHQ move to Carling Campus, ECs chose to move into departments further in town. I came from another ECDP and was under the impression that lateral movement and external talent was still welcomed at DND civie side?



> If you want to move into intelligence analysis, consider RCMP as well. They have a number of EC intelligence analysts in both tactical/strategic, across the spectrum of both traditional organized crime and national security in Ottawa, a lot of pretty interesting stuff. Though if you haven%u2019t done intelligence before, don%u2019t expect to enter it as a 6... 4 or potentially 5.



I'm also looking into the RCMP, but excuse my ignorance: why would someone want to take a lower level to demonstrate they can do the job? If someone is rank/level X, they have generally met the merit criteria and gone through the promotion competition process to justify their rank/level X. Why would someone consider demoting themselves to rank/level X-1 or X-2 if they can pickup the missing niche skills while on the job? Wouldn't on-the-job training be a regular requirement for anyone joining a niche EC field? The core competencies and requirements remain the same.

Edit: typos


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## Navy_Pete (7 Jul 2020)

KanD said:
			
		

> I'm also looking into the RCMP, but excuse my ignorance: why would someone want to take a lower level to demonstrate they can do the job? If someone is rank/level X, they have generally met the merit criteria and gone through the promotion competition process to justify their rank/level X. Why would someone consider demoting themselves to rank/level X-1 or X-2 if they can pickup the missing niche skills while on the job? Wouldn't on-the-job training be a regular requirement for anyone joining a niche EC field? The core competencies and requirements remain the same.
> 
> Edit: typos



EC is such an incredibly broad catch all. Have seen some pretty interesting analysis out of people that had no background in the subject that was well meaning rubbish, and ended up having to bring in expensive consultants (to confirm what we already knew, but needed an independent verification). I doubt that's feasible for what you are talking about.

If the level is that important there are lots of EC positions at many other departments, but otherwise you may need to look at an entry level type analyst position to be competitive against other applicants who may already have relevant experience in that specific niche. We have entire trades dedicated to intelligence analysis, so would expect a lot of the civilian positions would have military applicants looking to switch over (for the small number of positions that are available anyway), and would probably have some relevant experience as required/highly desirable if that's the case (at least for the higher positions), as well as a security clearance requirement. Kind of a no brainer if you can just shift someone up internally as a level 3 can take years.

Other then watch the board and maybe include a few other classifications not really much else to do. Not sure if there is much hiring on the go right now anyway, but that can be a slow process at the best of times. You may also want to keep an eye on CSIS/CSEC and maybe DFAIT (or whatever they are called now), but if you really want to get into that niche you may need to go to an entry level position to get your feet wet first. Not really unusual when people jump into a specific job market where relevant experience is critical that they need to earn their chops first.


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## brihard (8 Jul 2020)

KanD said:
			
		

> I'm also looking into the RCMP, but excuse my ignorance: why would someone want to take a lower level to demonstrate they can do the job? If someone is rank/level X, they have generally met the merit criteria and gone through the promotion competition process to justify their rank/level X. Why would someone consider demoting themselves to rank/level X-1 or X-2 if they can pickup the missing niche skills while on the job? Wouldn't on-the-job training be a regular requirement for anyone joining a niche EC field? The core competencies and requirements remain the same.
> 
> Edit: typos



To demonstrate that you can do the job. Intelligence analysis is its own world, as is the RCMP. We aren’t talking ‘niche skills’, e’re talking about the fundamentals of the job. Bear in mind that RCMP analysts have only become ECs recently with the conversion of RCMP civilian members to public servants. I guess someone decided the job classification needed to land somewhere and they picked EC- but make no mistake, it’s very much its own distinct set of skills, all the more so in Ottawa where a lot of high level work is being done. I strongly believe you would face challenges competing for a position at the 6 level without significant prior intelligence experience. You may be better off sticking with policy stuff if the pay grade is that critical.


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