# Foreign Medical Graduate - MO



## Future-Nurse (1 Feb 2007)

Hello
A friend of mine just came back from the Caribbean. He is a Canadian citizen and a Canadian high school graduate. He was in the Caribbean for 4 years to finish his premed/MD. Currently he is working towards his Medical Council of Canada Examination to get Licenced to practice here in Canada.
I was wondering if anybody knew anything about if it's possible for him to join in the CF (Regular or Reserve) as a MO.
Any help is appreciated.

Thank You
FN


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## Armymedic (1 Feb 2007)

You need a license to practice in any Canadain province to become a MO in the CF.


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## Future-Nurse (1 Feb 2007)

Thank You!
I will let him know and he actually called the Reserve Medical Unit here and he is meeting up with them on friday.
Thanks again
FN


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## medaid (1 Feb 2007)

heyhey! Something he might try, although I doubt it'll be applicable to him per se, is the 55U trade which is the MO Untrained designation. I dont know... if it'll be extended to him under the circumstances that you've protrayed, however, it could be argued that he is 'untrained' under the Canadian standards, and once the licensing is finished, he can be commissioned as a regular 55 . Hope that help!


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## Future-Nurse (1 Feb 2007)

MEd Tech
Thank You sir.
I will let him know about this before he goes to meet the Sgt. at the Field Ambulance.
Thanks again.
FN


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## Staff Weenie (1 Feb 2007)

You need to make sure your friend understands some key points - passing the Provincial exam is the first, and probably easiest step (if the Med School was reputable, and the person learned sufficient materiel - I'm generalizing here - I know the University of the West Indies produces some fine Docs - my wife's Uncle is Chancellor there), the hardest part, is getting a Residency spot. Many foreign trained Docs pass the exam, and spend years waiting for a Residency.

Here's the most important part - the Canadian Forces can not push any hospital into preferential status for getting a Residency spot, just because the person is now in uniform.

Trust me, as a former Recruiting Officer, I've had many many Docs from around the world try to join under the mistaken perception that the CF will pull some strings for them. Most of those Docs I dealt with - I wouldn't have trusted to hand out Tylenol.....

Some, well, I felt sorry for them, as I thought they were good people, stuck by the system.....


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## medaid (1 Feb 2007)

FN, PLEASE don't call me sir, I don't rate one yet. Plus, I get uncomfortable when ppl call me that, makes me feel... well OLD.  

Back to SW's point, ya, I think our entire accreditation system must be changed, so that we may better utilize these professionals. It just seems such a waste when these doc, nurses, engineers etc etc. are out there driving a cab or becoming janitors to support their lives.

That being said, the accreditation system should not in any way go easy on these individuals, and I whole heartily agree that there are those who I don't trust putting a band-aid on me, let alone prescribing my medications for me *shudder*


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## Future-Nurse (2 Feb 2007)

Staff Weenie & Med Tech,
Thank you for all the important information. I think you guys are absolutely right. But I've told him everything I've learnt here and he is well aware of this. So, lets see how his conversation goes with the Reserves unit.

Thanks again.
FN


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## david_wright (5 Mar 2007)

G'Day All,

I'm currently serving in the Royal Australian Army Medical Corps reserve as a Medical Officer (and have done so for 4.5 years now). I am currently in my 6th postgraduate year and my 4th year of anaesthesia/ICU training.
I have read the above information with a great deal of interest as I am married to a Canadian lass who is keen as mustard for me to move to Canada and start working. 
I am not a Canadian permanent resident so I am not yet eligible to join the CF as a regular or reserve officer but I am probing for info for the future. I am interested in the possibility of joining the CF at some stage, although from what I understand, the major stumbling block will be acceptance to work in Canada and the MCC exams.
All difficulties aside (I have spent countless hours on the MCC site as well as the provincial medical council sites) where would I find a reference to the 55U category? I'd appreciate knowing if there was some site I could look at.

Many thanks.


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## medaid (5 Mar 2007)

Ha ha! Let me say David that you've come to the right place! I was just talking today with my RSM and my predecessor with regards to the 55Us 

SO! Here is the gist of the 55U trade within the CF and its criteria for enrollment:

1) Minimum 16 yrs of age or older
2) Canadian Citizen
3) Must be in either 2nd year or higher in a recognized and accredited Canadian Medical School 
4) Must show leadership abilities
5) Must be physically fit
6) Must pass CFAT
7) Must pass Interview
8) Must pass officer board at the Reserve unit in mind.

Now, those things are reserve specific as far as I know because I am a reserve recruiter (surprise surprise!) So, first of all, this program is definitely not set up with a foreign MD in mind. In fact, I don't even think we have ANY program set up to facilitate foreign MDs who wants to join the CF (read above post by Staff Weenie). That being said, since now we have that LOVELY memo of understanding between our two lovely countries, there is nothing to bar you from coming over to Canada and serve with a Reserve unit for a bit, and see how you like it, prior to making your big decision! If you enjoy weather much akin to  the land down unda, you should come to Vancouver! Be part of my unit, and if you do so I promise you I will do anything in my power to help you  which I mind you is very limited in the large machine. Anywho, the 55U is relatively new, and it is known only to a selective few of us who work closely enough to the grape vine to hear stuff like this. It is strictly a health services thing and I'd be surprised if allot of recruiters know about this outside of the Health Services recruiting field. But as far as I know there isn't a site available. If you want to know more, keep watching here, and I'll periodically post things here. I'm sure Staff Weenie or other knowledgeable Health Services brethren will also keep you updated if that is something you're looking into  CHEERS! and Remember, VANCOUVER!!


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## david_wright (5 Mar 2007)

Thanks for that MedTech,

I enjoyed the brief sojourn my wife and I spent in Vancouver. She's from Regina so you can imagine there really is no comparison between Vancouver and Regina. That said, Regina is a nice place, although I've yet to find an unpleasant part of your country. Many other Aussies have told me that they consider the Canadian to be a kindred spirit to the Aussie.
Funnily enough, I am interested in Vancouver. There is the possibility of working in the ICU at the children's hospital there. As you are probably aware, there is the unfortunate problem of provincial/federal medical authorities. I haven't sat the exams yet, and I am in the limbo period of having done almost half my specilty training, so I need to decide wheter to do the MCC exams or wait until I secure fellowship here to then go over to Canada.
I haven't heard about the memorandum of understanding. Ironically, I read it on the front page of army.ca and it's the first I've heard of it. I shall have to look into it further as all we had available to reserve officers until now was the Duke of Edinburgh scheme and that was only for 4 weeks.
Thanks for you help, I plan on visiting the CF recruiting centre in Regina when we're over there in May. Maybe I can get some advice from them.
Dave


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## Journeyman (5 Mar 2007)

I assume you've been following the CAN/AUS Reserves thread. It seems to be a good potential fit for you.

(...but why Regina??!!  _~shudder~_   ;D  )


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## medaid (5 Mar 2007)

Indeed!!! WHY REGINA!! *shudder further* The only thing that's at Regina that's really really cool is Depot Division of the RCMP . I'm sure you can convince your lovely other half that Vancouver is truly where both of your roots belong. Come Come! it's a GREAT city, and yes Children's' is a lovely hospital, it's great how they focus specifically on the little people  . Another great advantage is the Trauma Training Centre West, for the CF that's located in VGH, I'd really look into working with them when and if you've decided what you want to do. Secondly, if you're going to come to Vancouver in the near future, i.e. in the next month and a half I'll be here, and I can show you around  Cheers David!


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## observor 69 (5 Mar 2007)

david_wright said:
			
		

> G'Day All,
> 
> I'm currently serving in the Royal Australian Army Medical Corps reserve as a Medical Officer (and have done so for 4.5 years now). I am currently in my 6th postgraduate year and my 4th year of anaesthesia/ICU training.
> I have read the above information with a great deal of interest as I am married to a Canadian lass who is keen as mustard for me to move to Canada and start working.
> ...



Hello David. I am a retired service member living in the Toronto area. I am quite out of my lane commenting on medical issues but I do have an area of concern I thought I should mention to you. 
Toronto is full of foreign trained Doctors who are stuck driving taxi cabs due to the difficulty they encounter in getting certified to work in Canada. I see you are looking at this issue already but I wanted to alert you to the seriousness of this issue in Canada, a country ironically with a doctor shortage,
Our country needs bright educated people, especially doctors, so please don't take my comments as unwelcoming.


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## david_wright (5 Mar 2007)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Toronto is full of foreign trained Doctors who are stuck driving taxi cabs due to the difficulty they encounter in getting certified to work in Canada. I see you are looking at this issue already but I wanted to alert you to the seriousness of this issue in Canada, a country ironically with a doctor shortage,



Unfortunately this is another area where Canada and Australia share a similarity. We are short of doctors too, especially in the rural areas. Nevertheless, it isn't the easiest process to endure in order to work. However, it is easier than Canada. I'm well aware that I may face working in a 7-11 or Wendy's etc if I moved there.

As for Regina...    now I didn't say that we were going to live there, just visit. I think if we move to Canada I don't think it would take much convincing to move to an area outside Saskatchewan. My wife would be happy to be nearer to her family, which would be the major reason for moving to Canada. I wouldn't be leaving Australia for career reasons or military reasons, considering that both potentially involve loss of salary and/or rank.

Thank you all for your input and assistance; it reinforces the good impression I already had of you Canadians!


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## david_wright (5 Mar 2007)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I assume you've been following the CAN/AUS Reserves thread.



Yes, I read this thread. I don't know why, but not only have I not heard anything about this is Australia, there appears to be no information about it on the ADF Reserves website. Odd, but maybe that's only because it's in it's infancy. It is definitely something I'd be keen on pursuing though.





<edit: I fixed your quote box up. OM>


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## Staff Weenie (5 Mar 2007)

I might be way off the mark here - but there may be an advantage to moving to Regina - some areas that are currently underserviced by MO's may be willing to process an Australian applicant quickly for a Residency etc.

If you'd like, I could dig around a few contacts here and see what they've got to say.


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## david_wright (5 Mar 2007)

Thanks Staff, I'd appreciate that.
I understand that Ontario has an accelerated pathway although this involves some return of service in a rural community. I don't have any qualms about that per se, however most of those schemes appear to be tailored towards the General Practitioner/Family Physician than procedural specialists. Nevertheless, it remains an avenue I have yet to fully dismiss.


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## ModlrMike (5 Mar 2007)

Coming from Australia you might not have to do a residency. It is quite likely that your education is sufficient similar to that offered in Canada as to be at an acceptable level. From there, you would have to do your LMCC (Licencate of the Medical College of Canada) exams, and then whatever provincial registration requirements. As an anesthesia specialist, you would be in great demand, and should have little problem with the Canadian process. 

The major hurdle for IMGs (international medical graduates) is that their schooling is often not up to Canadian standards. This is the issue that lots of folks miss when the talk about IMGs. After all, they are being held to no higher standard than a Canadian grad. Just because some guy is a doctor from (insert location), doesn't mean that he has an appropriate level of training or experience.

Anyhow, here's two links that should get you started... and good luck!

http://www.img-canada.ca/en/index.html

http://www.img-canada.ca/en/licensure_overview/exam%20chart.htm


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