# What do the ribbons mean?



## jwsteele (20 May 2005)

The ribbons that service men/women wear on their jackets...what do they mean?  How come some lower ranks (Sgt...LT etc) have a whole bunch of them while some higher ranks have hardly any?


----------



## Fusilier (20 May 2005)

They're called undress ribbons and they represent the medals that the mbr has earned over their career.  These are worn on occations where the full medals are not required.

As for why the lower ranks seem to have more, usually it's just a case of more deployments more often


----------



## SHELLDRAKE!! (20 May 2005)

Go to www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/dglepm/badges-insignia/ribbons_e.htm for a list of specific ribbons. In Canada a ribbon is a direct representation of a medal awarded whereas some militaries issue just a ribbon.If you think back 15 years ago, there were not alot of overseas missions. Cyprus and golan heights were about the most common but as you can imagine, those that were of a lower rank back then were otherwise employed and maybee chose not to take more modern tours because of other commitments.

 Its not the ribbon/medal that makes the soldier though so its best to never base your opinion of someone on their fruit salad.


----------



## jwsteele (21 May 2005)

LOL...fruit salad.  That's pretty good.  I never based the soldiers on their ribbons...I just thought it weird to see Cpl's and Sgt's walking around with lots of them and then see a Captain or Major with just a few.


----------



## axeman (21 May 2005)

well its not always wise to base an opinion on the bars that they have . some of the medals are gimmes some are given out unevenly  some are just randomly scattered throughout the cf . there are some that in the right time in the right place and you get one . some are cf wide but for completely different things . take the SWASM  southwest Asia service medal . the infantry got them for the service in Afghanistan , the navy got them for service around the gulf and the air force got them for servicing the troops that where there. now if you go and look its all the same medal with the same ribbon but there was a large separation of duties. but youl never know until till you ask them . as im now inthe navy the only difference between my  medal  for being in Afghanistan and the one that was given to the navy is none. you have to look to see the CinC award . even then it kinda blends in if you really want to know use the web to look up what it is and then maybe go ask the person what it is and what its for . i saw this happen with a ww2 veteran and a young couple as they saw the  France and ww2 victory star on the veterans chest. they took the time to ask . he was even able to tell em a little about it that wasn't in the books . 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/med1_e.asp?cat=3
heres another webpage that may tell you more about the more recent ones being awarded. hope it helps


----------



## chrisf (21 May 2005)

jwsteele said:
			
		

> LOL...fruit salad.   That's pretty good.   I never based the soldiers on their ribbons...I just thought it weird to see Cpl's and Sgt's walking around with lots of them and then see a Captain or Major with just a few.



You should note, a Sergeant is not a low rank, it's just not a commisoned rank, and corpral is one of those ranks that you can spend your entire career at if you've got no leadership ability or just no desire to progress...


----------



## reccecrewman (2 Sep 2005)

To add to an answer, let me put it this way for you.  There's a tour going overseas & theres 1,200 positions on it.  Stop and think how many Captains & Majors are in that number compared to the number of Privates & Corporals.  Basically, there's alot more positions open on any given tour for enlisted men and only so many for officers.  Another factor to consider is this; In the Armour Corps (Probably similar for the Infantry) an officer comes to the Unit as a 2Lt. & is given command of a Troop (Platoon).  This is usually a 1 or 2 year assignemnt for them and then they are quite often sent to some staff position as a Captain.  Now, if the Squadron (or Company) never did a tour while he/she was a Troop/Platoon leader, then he's out of luck and has to wait to be selected to go overseas in some other capacity.  Meanwhile, junior and senior NCM's have many more opportunities to go overseas and extend their racks quite nicely.  ;D


----------



## Kat Stevens (2 Sep 2005)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> You should note, a Sergeant is not a low rank, it's just not a commisoned rank, and corpral is one of those ranks that you can spend your entire career at if you've got no leadership ability or just no desire to progress...



I really take exception to your post, and the tone in which it is presented.  It's not just an expression, the Cpls are the backbone of the army.


----------



## Michael Dorosh (2 Sep 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I really take exception to your post, and the tone in which it is presented.  It's not just an expression, the Cpls are the backbone of the army.



I had a fellow corporal in my office on Wednesday night; between the two of us we had 34 years of experience with the Regiment.   We talked about how quickly time flies.  

He has many more medals than I do, too, incidentally.


----------



## Haggis (2 Sep 2005)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> You should note, a Sergeant is not a low rank, it's just not a commisoned rank, and corpral is one of those ranks that you can spend your entire career at if you've got no leadership ability or just no desire to progress...



Many Cpls, particularly in the specialist trades (like the 500 series Air trades), earn a fair bit more than an IPC 4 Infantry Sgt (with a heck of a lot less wear and tear on the body).

See: http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/NCMRegFPayRate_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28  for proof.



			
				Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> It's not just an expression, the Cpls are the backbone of the army.



Bang on, Kat.  Some folks who are "just Cpls"  are quite happy and quite *effective* there.


----------



## Gunner98 (3 Sep 2005)

My father-in-law retired a full Col (Air Nav) in early 90's, he only had a CD with 2 clasps on his chest.  He was able to apply for the SSM after his retirement once it became available.  He had a fantastic career, flew Argus and spent a lot of time in the Intelligence field.  He was unconcerned with the colours on his chest and very proud of the stripes on his arms.


----------



## chrisf (21 Oct 2005)

I know this is a rather old topic now, but I never noticed the responses to my reply...

As a corpral myself (And likely a CFL), it wasn't meant as a slight to corprals, so much as to point out to the poster that it's entirely possible to spend one's carreer as a corpral if that's where one is happy... and that it's not at all abnormal for some corprals to have far more experience then their superiors.


----------



## geo (21 Oct 2005)

Hmmm.... maybe they can deploy the 3rd floor of 101 Col Bye drive.
Fielding a Bn of Captains, Majors & LtCols to balance things out


----------



## FormerHorseGuard (21 Oct 2005)

i remember when the 125 medal came out, a few were given out to the Members of Parliment  to give away  to deserving persons, the Forces were given some too.  A soldier in Petawawa walked into the local MP office It was Len Hopskins Lib MP and asked if he could get one, and Mr Hopkins arranged for him to get one of the medals.  The solder was given the medal on parade. So medals are just give mes. I thought it was funny  to hear a soldier would just ask for it and get one.

There was a time when most of the enlisted men wearing the most ribbons and medals were combat engineers.  wonder what  trade has the guy walking around with the most now?


----------



## Michael Dorosh (21 Oct 2005)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> i remember when the 125 medal came out, a few were given out to the Members of Parliment   to give away   to deserving persons, the Forces were given some too.   A soldier in Petawawa walked into the local MP office It was Len Hopskins Lib MP and asked if he could get one, and Mr Hopkins arranged for him to get one of the medals.   The solder was given the medal on parade. So medals are just give mes. I thought it was funny   to hear a soldier would just ask for it and get one.
> 
> There was a time when most of the enlisted men wearing the most ribbons and medals were combat engineers.   wonder what   trade has the guy walking around with the most now?



Wow, this defies description.  Can you name the soldier in Petawawa who just asked for the medal?  Or is this an urban myth.

I don't know about anyone else, but I got my CD by 12 years of dedicated service, no one "gave' it to me, I earned it and wear it with pride.  I did a bit more more to "earn' it than a few others, and a whole lot less than about a gazlillion other people, but it doesn't diminish its value to me either way.

I sincerely doubt that "most ribbons and medals" were worn by combat engineers but that's a whole other ball of wax.

Maybe they didn't let the Horse Guards out of the armouries?  Too bad, maybe mixing with other soldiers would have opened your eyes a bit.  If you can honestly defend any of the silly and insulting claims you've just made, please do so.


----------



## mover1 (21 Oct 2005)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> There was a time when most of the enlisted men wearing the most ribbons and medals were combat engineers.   wonder what   trade has the guy walking around with the most now?




Probably a Postie or a Supply Tech.


----------



## OnTrack (21 Oct 2005)

I'd lay money on a MCPl/Sgt from the Joint Signals Regt...those guys deploy.


----------



## Gunner98 (21 Oct 2005)

I would put my money on Sigs or Med Techs.  Many specialist MOs do 59 day tours every 18 months to 2 years.


----------



## FormerHorseGuard (21 Oct 2005)

the 125 was a give me medal i think, you did not have to do anything special to earn or to wear it.  you were picked by  your unit and you got it.  i read the story  in the local paper I live near Petawawa.. MPs were giving away  that medal to anyone who was around who they felt deserved it, usually people who worked for the party or did something to help with the election ( give money).

There are some medals that  given out , I did not mean to insult your CD award or anyone elses.  My grand father has one medal he was entitled to wear because he was serving at the time of the 100th Birthday of Canada.  He did nothing to earn it, he never had it mounted like the rest of his service awards. He was just there and got the medal. That is is a give me medal.

CD you earn the hard way, you serve for 12 years,  i left 5 years too soon to get mine.  
please forgive me if you flet insulted over your CD, you earned it, you did the time. Congrats


----------



## armyvern (21 Oct 2005)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> I would put my money on Sigs or Med Techs.   Many specialist MOs do 59 day tours every 18 months to 2 years.



I gotta go with ... any support trade ... many of us do 6-7 month tours every 2.5 years. And quite a few pull 1 year tours out. I know a guy with 13....and 2 of them have post nominals.
And it seems like every tour I'm on it's like old home week... same siggies, same medics, same postie, same trucker, same RMS clerk and same CE guys.


----------



## Acorn (22 Oct 2005)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> the 125 was a give me medal i think, you did not have to do anything special to earn or to wear it.   you were picked by   your unit and you got it.   i read the story   in the local paper I live near Petawawa.. MPs were giving away   that medal to anyone who was around who they felt deserved it, usually people who worked for the party or did something to help with the election ( give money).
> 
> There are some medals that   given out , I did not mean to insult your CD award or anyone elses.   My grand father has one medal he was entitled to wear because he was serving at the time of the 100th Birthday of Canada.   He did nothing to earn it, he never had it mounted like the rest of his service awards. He was just there and got the medal. That is is a give me medal.
> 
> ...



All non-merit medals are "give me" medals by your criteria. We volunteered for service, and go where we are told. Sometimes we get a gong for it. The way you describe it every medal I have other than the CD is a "gimme" since all I did to "earn" them was be in the right place at the right time in the proper order of dress (and DAG green).

Acorn


----------



## geo (22 Oct 2005)

The Centenial and 125th medals were, allegedly "gimmie" medals were alloted to units: X per unit. Usually CO & RSM got the 1st cut and then they would merit list the Offrs and NCOs to determine who would get the balance of medals.

The latest Jubilee medal is another animal altogether.... 
While the people at the top wanted to be fair in their distribution, they let computer generated lists make the decisions for them. End result; you had some sad sack individuals who picked em up... even if he was the least deserving soldier in the unit... and the unit CO & RSM had no say in it. 
Some individuals who got em refused to wear em because of who else got em
Some unit COs tried to send back every last one of them..... 
Some individuals just asked their MPs for em... (yup; even the Bloc MPs had some to give)
T'was, from my perspective, a real boondogle...
Got mine sitting in a drawer somewhere............ never to see the light of day.


----------



## Haggis (23 Oct 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> The latest Jubilee medal is another animal altogether....



The awarding of the QGJM within the CF was by no means arbitrary, nor was it the best method.  In a nutshell, here's how it went:

-CF members who received the QGJM were selected randomly based on a pre-determined criteria, with the bulk of the medals awarded to the Cpl/LS and Capt/Lt(N) ranks.  
-The random selection was overseen by a Project Officer at DHH.  The nominee names were then provided to the units for vetting by the C of C.
-Then those vetted lists were sent back to DHH for a final "once over" by the Project Officer before the medals were awarded.
-To ensure no bias of any type was inserted into the selection process outside the C of C, the Project Officer, her trade and branch of service were all ineligible for the medal.


----------



## 1feral1 (23 Oct 2005)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> 1. So medals are just give mes.
> 
> 2. There was a time when most of the enlisted men wearing the most ribbons and medals were combat engineers.



Response to para 1 - bad, very bad choice of words, and quite frankly, I am proud of my two Cdn (as you put it) 'give mes', and the ADM I am about to receive, plus those I have inherited from my relatives who served in two world wars.

Response to para 2 -  I am speechless, and I hope yo are just kidding.

Wes


----------



## geo (23 Oct 2005)

Haggis,
You will have your view on the QGJM and I will have mine.
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.

Chimo!


----------



## Haggis (24 Oct 2005)

geo said:
			
		

> Haggis,
> You will have your view on the QGJM and I will have mine.
> Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.



Geo:

It's not a "view", it simply a description of how the system worked, warts and all.  The CF's selection process took so long that medals were awarded to members who had died, released or been convicted of Service offences between the time they were vetted by the C of C and the time the medals were awarded.

Boondoggle?  No, that's the Gun Registry. ;D  Clusterf*ck?  Quite probably, despite the best efforts of the Project Officer and her extremely limited staff.  Hey, you get what you pay for, right?

I got one from my local MP, presented in front of the unit.  I'm certain I was nominated by someone outside the C of C.  I'm too damned opinionated towards the C of C!


----------



## geo (24 Oct 2005)

shoulda done like they did for the Brit army.... if you were in the service - you got one....
or like the Aussie Army...no one got one.


----------



## redleafjumper (25 Oct 2005)

I nominated two people (civilians) for the Queen's Golden Jubilee medal and included a citation regarding the tremendous amount of community service that these people had put over many years, they received their medals in a formal ceremony at city hall. They probably deserved something more, but they were proud to be recognized in this fashion and they wear their medal proudly, just like anyone else who received one should.  The medal is itself recognition of service during the Golden Jubilee of HRH Elizabeth II.  Certainly giving all who were serving at that time one would have been a better solution, but unfortunately that didn't happen.  I respect Geo's principled stand of not wearing his, but I do think that he should put it up.


----------

