# Civillians Wearing Kit



## Murphy081 (4 May 2004)

Does anyone else get absolutly pissed off at hippies goin around wearing combat boots or combat shirts that they probably stole from their dad.

I saw one guy wearing a comabt shirt with permanent marker on the back saying "Drop Acid Not Bombs"

is there any way these ppl can be charged


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## AlphaCharlie (4 May 2004)

Recently i‘ve been seeing a LOT of guys wearing CF combat jackets...  but they can buy them at any surplus store, unfortunatly.


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## Michael Dorosh (4 May 2004)

They‘re allowed to wear it if it does not display insignia.

I wore a battle dress jacket with WW II insignia with my civvies when I was in high school; pissed off some of the militia dudes something fierce.  Wouldn‘t dream of doing it now, but kids are like that.  

As for the older "hippie" types, I just laugh when I see them in garrison dress jackets - insignia and all.  They only hurt themselves by dressing like clowns.

No, they can‘t be charged, unless they are wearing insignia as well, and it is current issue uniforms.  Since the OD combats are on the way out, it may be a moot point.

Why worry about it, though - who would actually confuse them for people with a life and a job?


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## Pte.Nomercy (4 May 2004)

Oh, brother do I feel your pain! There is nothing more then I‘d like to do to those stupid...

Excuse me. Sorry about that.

Yeah, Murphy, I live in Toronto and that type of **** is rampant! RAMPANT!!! Just today I saw a guy wearing 1991 American Dessert Storm combat pants half way off his skinny *** like some bad *** Desert Storm motha trucka! 

I also see allot of grunge wannabes wearing OD CF combat shirts, pants jackets you name it, all hard-core rocker style.

I think they‘re making some sort of rebellious statement...THEY‘RE RETARDED.

Sadly, nothing can be done as they are civilians and have every constitutional right to look stupid.


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## Colin Parkinson (4 May 2004)

This has been an issue since the hippie was first created (spewed?) Funny how they hate war, armies but depend on surplus for their clothing!
I really don‘t care unless they are wearing insignia or medals. I had a few quiet conversations with young kids about the wearing of medals and a couple have taken them off when I explained that many people shed blood to earn those medals, some to me to **** off and some just kind looked at me in a daze.


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## atticus (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
> [qb] They‘re allowed to wear it if it does not display insignia.
> No, they can‘t be charged, unless they are wearing insignia as well, and it is current issue uniforms.[/qb]


I seen a lady at my local Costco about a week ago. OD pants blosed (sp) into her boots and a CF garrison jacket with an insignia on it. Are you saying that if say, an MP seen her she could be charged? Being a civillian whose just a wanna-be and all?


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## Pte.Nomercy (4 May 2004)

I got a great idea Colin P! They could have their own medals!  

I can see it now!  

Me: â Å“Hey man where'd you get the medals!?â ?

Stupid hippie:" Ughhh this medal I got for goin to jail after I was caught with some pot and other drugs to â Å“expandâ ? my mind, ughhhh this one is for 12 years of unemployment and this one....ummmm ummmm I forget...(drools and stares directly at sun)"


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

I don‘t care just as long as there is no insignia still on the items...

I saw this kid at a local high school here in toronto wear full OD combats with 2Lt slip-ons... I wanted to kick this kid.

There was no way that this grade 9/10 kid was a 2Lt.

Huff!

I reserve my wearing of militray type stuff to US surplus.

You know what... whatever... There are too many idiots running around TO with that stuff anyways, I could care less unless it affects me... I used to care a lot but I realized you can‘t win vs. the mass of idiots.


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## Murphy081 (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Pte.Nomercy:
> [qb] I got a great idea Colin P! They could have their own medals!
> 
> I can see it now!
> ...


Nice!


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## Michael Dorosh (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by atticus:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> ...


MPs have no jurdisdiction.  She could be charged by the local police under the Criminal Code of Canada, if I recall correctly.

We had another thread just recently about "wannabes".  

Most police will not bother, though, unless they are trying to pass themselves off as soldiers - just wearing a jacket with civvies isn‘t really that big a deal.  If they are putting on full uniform and trying to get into the weapons lock up at the armoury, on the other hand...


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## Danjanou (4 May 2004)

Colin I could just see a whole new award system here.

Yah dude this one is the Special Squeegee medal awarded if you were beaten up and tossed out of Montreal and forced to immigrate to Toronto or Vancouver.

This one is for Welfare Fraud in Toronto
note the bars for each offence.

This is the meritorious medal for hanging around my parent‘s basement all day.

This is I participated in the (insert OCAP/NDP/Anti American/Anti NATO/Anti Iraq Anti whatever here)medal

Funny if it wasn‘t sad. Kind of like the old days in North Van eh.


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## BDTyre (4 May 2004)

I‘ve purchased old CF surplus -especially pants- for my volunteer job.  The large pockets are great for stuffing my work gloves, wire cutters, screwdrivers, etc. into and the cloth is incredibly durable and comfortable.

I‘ve gone out the odd time in a rush still wearing old surplus pants, but I don‘t dress up in full combats or anything like that.


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

LOL...

Squeegie medals.

I believe it was... um... Section 413 of the Canadian Criminal Code.. I‘m not sure. but it‘s in there.


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## dano (4 May 2004)

Oh yes... There are those grunge rockers that feel the need to shame combat clothing...

...It‘s not like they mean it... They‘re just to secluded to understand...


Infact today I just saw a rocker wearing comabt pants, all ripped and such... I was so close to going off the deep end with the guy... But then I thought... I bet he does‘ent even know what combat pants are..


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## dano (4 May 2004)

You‘re right.
 No matter what, I still will not feel at ease with these individuals disgracing it.


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## D-n-A (4 May 2004)

its not a big problem, if they want to go out an wear old worn out Military clothing, let them, as long as medals an insignia arent worn


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## chrisf (4 May 2004)

It‘s not really hurting anyone... it‘s quite clear that they‘re not soldiers, nor are they representing the military...

I used to wear a pair of surplus combat pants all the time before joining the military. Most comfortable pants I‘ve ever owned.

If the clothes weren‘t sold surplus, they‘d be destroyed. Any capital return would be lost... waste not want not. And to those of you that are cadets, remember, you wouldn‘t be able to buy the stuff to play with on field exs.


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## D-n-A (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Just a Sig Op:
> [qb]  And to those of you that are cadets, remember, you wouldn‘t be able to buy the stuff to play with on field exs. [/qb]


good point

If you cadets are so against civvies wearing military uniforms,  than you(cadets) shouldent be wearing uniforms either.


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

But when a cadet is on sanctioned cadet activities supervised by members of the CF technically they aren‘t civis or CF members. In many respects cadets aren‘t civis in some situations but yes, they are indeed not CF members.

I think it is very clear that everyone can say that it‘s up to the individual who is in the know about the uniform, IE a CF member to care.

Most will agree, too, that they wouldn‘t care just as long as there are no insignia or rank. Otherwise no impersonation of CF members.


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## CI Dumaran (4 May 2004)

I was referring to DNAs statement above.


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## chrisf (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by 2332Piper:
> [qb] What cadets making such a big deal out of this? Seeing as I seem to be the only cadet who posted here in this thread, and I happend to not complain about people wearing old combats, I don‘t get the above mentioned comment. [/qb]


CI Philpster and Daniel are both cadets.


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## Jarnhamar (5 May 2004)

I wear OD combat pants when i go camping or bumming around my back yard cooking steak.
Been camping in the winter a few times and used my parka and windpants.
I use my wetweather or mark 3 boots when im hiking or driving my street bike.
I don‘t see anything evil about that.

People buy army junk at the store because its a fashion statement. Just like getting pierced and JUST like getting a tatto.

What i dont understand is why  the Canadian forces more often than not destroy unwanted equipment instead of selling it to army surplus stores which give us more money.

If hippies wearing cadpat means we get new flak vests or jeeps more power to them i say.


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## corporal-cam (5 May 2004)

Ya there‘s lots of hippies but lets not forget all us Cadets who wear it on exs and people like me who use it to go paint balling because showing up in the forest with a red t shirt is just dumb. But I think the guys who write dumb stuff like "drop acid not bombs" should have their combats taken back with no refund it‘s a disgrace to the uniform and the forces the only writing that should be on there should be your name.


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## mattoigta (5 May 2004)

There‘s a mentally retarded kid at my school who will wear a set of full combats everynow and then... I‘m not touching that one with a ten foot pole!


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## dano (5 May 2004)

Who would you rather want wearing combats.
A hippie?
Or a Cadet?
It is a YES or NO question.


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## CI Dumaran (5 May 2004)

It‘s not combats, I wear combat pants when hiking and etc... it‘s wearing a full uniform not entitled to that individual.

PS... I WAS a cadet... Thus the "Former WO2" in my sig. I am very ‘retired‘.


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## stukirkpatrick (5 May 2004)

Surplus is surplus, but the thing that really bugs me is when skinhead groups decide its fun to wear NAZI paraphenelia (Fritz helmets with swastika, ss uniforms) one day, and bits of CF combats the next.  It can indirectly associate the two in people‘s eyes, which is most definitely a bad thing.


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## CI Dumaran (5 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Kirkpatrick:
> [qb] Surplus is surplus, but the thing that really bugs me is when skinhead groups decide its fun to wear NAZI paraphenelia (Fritz helmets with swastika, ss uniforms) one day, and bits of CF combats the next.  It can indirectly associate the two in people‘s eyes, which is most definitely a bad thing. [/qb]


I agree, I have seen that aswell. though rare, it is offensive.


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## Jarnhamar (5 May 2004)

Groups like that get off on being found offensive.

Ignore them and you take away a big part of what they are trying to get noticed. Their Image.
I‘d say 75% of the time someone says, does or wears something offensive its exactly because they want to be noticed and get attention.


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## IceHawk (5 May 2004)

I don‘t have a problem with people wearing combat clothing, I‘m in Northern Ontario right now and it seems that it‘s what all the hicks up here wear, and you can‘t blame them.  Combats are very durable clothes and they‘re relatively inexpensive.  What I do have a problem with are people that wear a mostly complete uniform (pants and tunic),medals, or try to look a bit like a soldier (combat boots, pants and a green or black T-shirt, boonie cap).  Other then that the only dumb looking people are the ones who wear CF issue combat shirts. (jackets and parkas are fine in my books.)  I personally have a small collection of combat pants from various countries but only the pants.  If I feel the urge to stand out a little I put on my Dutch combat pants but I always make sure that the rest of my clothes are clearly civilan and tasteful.  I find combat pants very comfortable and practical so I wear them all the time however the majority of the pants that I wear are solid colours (ie most are black but I do have tan, green, and even blue EMS type without the dumb reflectors).  I even have a pair of those CADPAT pants from Frontenac that I got at a good price although I seldom wear them since they act as a kind of "girl-repellant" I‘ve discovered, plus they seem a little more out of place than the colour-by-number pants which have appearently made their way into mainstream fashion somehow.  The interesting thing is that if I do wear the CADPAT pants (which is rare enough) people have asked what country that pattern is from and I inform them that it‘s Canada‘s new pattern and it‘s one of the most advanced in NATO and people are invariably pleasently surprised and proud by the fact that despite the current financial situation, the Canadian military is excelling in some areas.

Anyway, the pants I normally wear, although they are combat pants, or SWAT pants or EMS pants, most people think they‘re from the GAP so it‘s a moot point.


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## Michael Dorosh (5 May 2004)

My dad was in the Militia in Saskatchewan in 1957 or so.  One of his buddies always had to go out into the fields on parade night to see if his dad was wearing his Battle Dress pants while riding the tractor around.  Good wool pants were expensive in them thar days.    

Some things never change....


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## willy (5 May 2004)

"Who would you rather want wearing combats.
A hippie?
Or a Cadet?
It is a YES or NO question."

How about a third option of "who gives a ****"?
Neither are military.  People can wear what they want, for christ‘s sake.  If someone is impersonating a member of the CF, then that‘s a real and true big deal, but otherwise, don‘t we all have better things to do than argue about this?


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## Old Cent Hand (5 May 2004)

I agree , " Who gives a ****! If I was a civilian , and could buy a load bearing vest , to use for fishing or hunting , I would. And if this civilian could get his hands on some Gortex Kit , all the power to him. Alot of outdoors men , like our boonie hat.I seen a hunter with the newest load bearing vest , he bought it surplus. So be it. These people are not " para-miltary " , or "Neo-Nazi", they like gear that works.


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## 1feral1 (5 May 2004)

At the end of the day, if it makes him happy, what they ****. He is not hurting anyone.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Old Cent Hand (5 May 2004)

Further to my my last , I seen CADPAT Kit in surplus stores , long before I got mine. Likewise I have seen a variety of medals , for sale in surplus , and coin stores. Cyprus, Golan , SSM, to name a few.The medals are for the serious collector, not the "want to be a hero".


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## chrisf (5 May 2004)

I also know a lot of camera guys who love army surplus... great clothes for the field, lots of big pockets to fill up, and M16 type mags are the same size as Sony NP-1 camera batteries.


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## Jarnhamar (5 May 2004)

I have a question. It‘s illegal to impersonate a soldier as well as "wear insignia"?

Does that mean that theoretically someone whos wearing a combat shirt with sgt‘s ranks on them or a medal say, is actually commiting a crime?


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## GrahamD (5 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Kirkpatrick:
> [qb] Surplus is surplus, but the thing that really bugs me is when skinhead groups decide its fun to wear NAZI paraphenelia (Fritz helmets with swastika, ss uniforms) one day, and bits of CF combats the next.  It can indirectly associate the two in people‘s eyes, which is most definitely a bad thing. [/qb]


This post suprises me, what suprises me even more is the next post that says that they have seen this too.

You must be talking about children who are just attention getters. Because your typical Neo Nazi Skinhead is usually extremely well educated on the rhetoric and history of the Nazi Party.  They take pride in their dress and their belief.
They wear very specific stuff because it has meaning in the skinhead subculture, but rarely does it involve wearing actual Nazi clothing.  Sometimes the boots, but not much else.
Personaly I‘ve yet to see one Nazi skinhead wearing a "uniform".  That would be pretty outrageous, and for the most part Nazi skinheads consider themselves more like the Fourth Reich, and not directly connected to Nazi Germany 1943.
The Nazi‘s lost power, which is generally a sore spot for people who think they shouldn‘t have, and furthermore they generally have theories on why/how a "Fourth Reich" could rise to power with "proper leadership".
Most Nazi Skinheads will tell you that if it wasn‘t for Hitler being a such maniac, the Nazi Party would still be in power, and control all of Europe.

For someone to wear a Swastika, and dress like a Nazi doesn‘t really have anything to do with the ACTUAL Nazi skinhead movement.  That the same induvidual would wear CF combats the next day only proves that they are just some random trouble maker who is looking for a confrontation.

I know because I was involved with a skinhead movement when I was younger.
Before anyone freaks out, it was the S.H.A.R.P. movement.
Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice, is what that stands for.
Basically the whole point is to have people who enjoy the Ska/Punk scene who are willing to stand up to racist Nazi punk Aholes when they show up at shows, or at parties.

I‘ve had run ins with Nazi punks in the past and I can tell you first hand that Swastikas don‘t really play that big of a part in that subculture.  You‘re more likely to see a bomber jacket covered in patches, some Nazi Germany insignia, some more modern but equally symbolic.
They will wear white boot laces (signifies white power), and will generally be easy to spot, since they are looking for trouble 10 times out of 10.

My question is, if you saw a person wearing a Swastika and worse, SS uniforms, what did you do about it?

Seriously, some things are just way over the top and need to have attention called to them.  If people are getting so wound up about "grungers" and "rockers" wearing OD combat‘s as part of their "fashion statement", then I would hope that seeing people running around dressed like Nazi‘s would push them over the edge.
Although I should point out that "rockers" are more prone to wearing tight jeans and leather jackets than combats, maybe what was meant was "punk rockers".

Anyway, getting wound up about about people wearing surplus combats is totaly a waste of time.  There is no disrespect intended for the most part, and even if you told someone who was wearing some old surplus combats that you felt offended by it, they would probably laugh at you and blow you off as some fanatical military nerd.  
I wear OD combat pants when I‘m bumming around, walking down to the pool, the coffee shop, or the video store all the time.  You can‘t argue with $5 pants.
I walk by the Moss park armoury on my way to the pool, I would hope that if anyone felt offended they would be pacified by my explaination that I would rather have my $5 dollar pants stolen in the Moss park rec center, than my $75 dollar jeans.

I totally agree about medals and rank though.  That‘s something that‘s worth getting a little steamed about.  Collecting the stuff is fine, but wearing it around IS disrespectful.
Though I have to say, you people who are seeing this stuff must live in some pretty colourful places.  I never see anyone wearing this stuff.


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## BDTyre (5 May 2004)

Kit is great for cameras.  I picked up an "82" butt pack for my camera. Its roomy, has pockets for batteries, cards, and anything else I might need, and its reasonably water resistant.  Best of all, it was $17, much cheaper than the $60 I‘ve seen for similar looking traditional camera bags.

A friend of mine, ex-militia turned professional photograhper, uses his old webbing for his camera gear.


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## dano (5 May 2004)

> Originally posted by willy:
> [qb] "Who would you rather want wearing combats.
> A hippie?
> Or a Cadet?
> ...


Good answer. So now LETS keep it that way. 
So we all can stop singling out Cadets now.


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## Farmboy (5 May 2004)

Get over it!

People can wear what they want (besides rank ect.)

I thought we were here to protect peoples freedom? 

There are so many different people who wear surplus, shooters, hunters, photographers, paintballers, hikers, farmers ect. Big deal.


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## Colin Parkinson (5 May 2004)

I like the part about hippie medals, and then we can wear them and make fun of them!

But seriously 
Be very careful about wearing surplus clothing overseas, it is an offence in Malaysia to wear military clothing and they will arrest you for it, in other countries they might just shoot first! In fact there was a story in the Malaysian newspapers about a older guy that dressed up like an officer to impress a waitress he was in love with, he was caught and charged

My wife has Malaysian army pants, similar to the Brit pattern and are very made and nice to look at, next time I am over there I will try to get a pair for my self. 

Frankly I can't figure why someone would want a cdn combat jacket, I always found them cold, restricts movement and uncomfortable, the pants are good for bush walking, but the shirt just looks goofy. Just missed the camo Garrison jacket, I know it seems like a bad idea now, but I think it was trying to make soldiers look like soldier, rather than bus  drivers, couriers etc. 

The worse part of being in the Coast Guard is that when in uniform you do look like a bus driver and will be asked when is the 239 due! Sigh.....


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## Michael Dorosh (5 May 2004)

The Garrison Dress Jacket was horrible indeed, and yet it seems to have found favour among drifters and homeless people.  The officers at NDHQ seemed to like it too, but I am sure that is mere coincidence.    

Really, though, the uniform was well-intentioned but useless for its intended role, as a garrison uniform.  Doing vehicle maintenance in the boots was disastrous, doing office work in the jacket was a joke.  The belt was worn, due to the lousy design of the jacket, just under the wearer‘s nipples, and the debates still rage whether or not the little plastic bit on the buckle went on the top, or the bottom!

The best part of that uniform was the revival of full colour cloth shoulder titles, though it seemed odd to see bright yellow, red and blue "flashes" on a camouflage jacket with subdued rank insignia.

But if the bums want to carry on the tradition, more power to them.  I believe Garrison Dress is still on the books, isn‘t it, as an official order of dress?


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## Murphy081 (5 May 2004)

Ok alot of you guys are making reference to ppl wearing combat pants in the woods and for outdoor purposes, thats a huge contrast from some greenpeace army hating hippie actually wearing combats to make some type of statement (whatever that is) those are the ones that piss me off. If someone were to bring kit out camping with them well all the power to them.


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## chrisf (5 May 2004)

> Originally posted by BDTyre:
> [qb] Kit is great for cameras.  I picked up an "82" butt pack for my camera. Its roomy, has pockets for batteries, cards, and anything else I might need, and its reasonably water resistant.  Best of all, it was $17, much cheaper than the $60 I‘ve seen for similar looking traditional camera bags.
> 
> A friend of mine, ex-militia turned professional photograhper, uses his old webbing for his camera gear. [/qb]


It‘s great for accesories, never trust it with your actual camera though, it‘s not padded in any way. Most consumer grade cameras, even the high end ones, are not really up to the shock of even a slight dropping.


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## Burrows (30 May 2004)

Hippies wearing Cobats sounds kinda oxy-moronic.


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## CI Dumaran (30 May 2004)

You haven't seen a hippy (or equililent) wearing some sort of combats?

I'd like to take a  :fifty: to the...

It was enraging to see them at those so called peace rallies.


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## Gayson (30 May 2004)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by BDTyre:
> > [qb] Kit is great for cameras.  I picked up an "82" butt pack for my camera. Its roomy, has pockets for batteries, cards, and anything else I might need, and its reasonably water resistant.  Best of all, it was $17, much cheaper than the $60 I've seen for similar looking traditional camera bags.
> >
> > A friend of mine, ex-militia turned professional photograhper, uses his old webbing for his camera gear. [/qb]
> ...



I find the utility pouch can hold my Nikon FE and my 80-200 mm telescopic lens perfectly.  I can understand why photographers like the "82" and I am going to try and put a 2nd utility pouch on my webbing for my camera to take pictures in the field.   ;D


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## Da_man (30 May 2004)

A while ago the was some sort of recruiting event a my regiment.   There was this guy dressed all in OD combat, boots, dog tags and all.     He even had a cpl insignia.



edit: he also wanted to be a "special forces sniper"


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## CI Dumaran (30 May 2004)

J. Gayson said:
			
		

> Just a Sig Op said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I too found that the utility pouch worked well with my Sony DV cam and my Canon S50... the ammo pouches held the extra batts and other gear nicely. Oh it also fit my night vision rig really nice... but I had to put some insulating rippled foam in to protect my gear.

I only wore this rig when I was video recording or photographing field exercises or PB/AS games.

Cheers.


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## Military Brat (2 Jun 2004)

We live in a free country, therefore hippies are free to make dufus' out of themselves. 

I just hope that to the average Joe Potato out on the streets, that these buffoons who strut around in combat attire don't represent the men and women of the Canadian military.


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## Mortar guy (2 Jun 2004)

I believe the plural of dufus is _dufi_. Therefore, these people are making dufi out of themselves.



Alex


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## Military Brat (2 Jun 2004)

:-[ Thank god your here!


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