# Derelict  Port de la Reine and the Port Quebec



## Colin Parkinson (19 Apr 2013)

OLYMPIA – The Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR) announced today it is removing two 125-foot derelict vessels from a dilapidated dock on the Guemes Channel in Anacortes. The two vessels are being transported by Global Diving and Salvage to safer moorage at the Port of Seattle.

DNR’s Derelict Vessel Removal Program took custody of the vessels on April 1 due to concerns that the vessels posed a threat to navigational safety in the channel, the structural integrity of the nearby Guemes Ferry Dock, and the health of the area’s marine ecosystem.

On February 25, during high westerly winds, the two vessels, the *Port de la Reine and the Port Quebec,* began to pull away from the old Shannon Point Seafoods pier, causing the northwest portion of the pier to collapse into the channel. This section of pier is located on state-owned aquatic lands, which DNR manages. DNR was concerned that the vessels could cause further damage to the pier and adjacent property.

When the owner of the vessel failed to move the two vessels to a safer location as requested, DNR proceeded to obtain custody as granted by statute. 
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/News/Pages/2013_04_12_guemes_derelict_vessels.aspx

link to photo


----------



## kratz (19 Apr 2013)

What a shame to hear.

I know many people who have served on those vessels.


----------



## Edward Campbell (19 Apr 2013)

Not too sure what was done to them  over the years, but here is HMCS Porte de la Reine back when she was in commission.







And HMCS Porte Quebec:







Edit: added picture


----------



## medicineman (19 Apr 2013)

They named a drink after her - De La Reine on the Rocks - after her CO grounded her back in the 80's.  IIRC, it was in the San Juan Islands, so I wonder if they just left her there.  

MM


----------



## Canadian.Trucker (19 Apr 2013)

Did not know what type of vessels these were or their purpose.  For anyone interested there wasn't a lot of info on wiki but link included http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porte_class_gate_vessel

Sad to see these former RCN vessels in such a state.


----------



## MARS (19 Apr 2013)

A shame...sorta.  Most warships come to somewhat inglorious ends.  Such is life.  They were often referred to as 'pig boats'.  Unsure if that was because of their shape or their handling characteristics.  They were horrible to sail in, near the end.  St Louis and St.Jean required the NCMs to wait on deck, in the elements, on the stbd side to receive our meals through a scuttle.  Then a walk all the way forward on the upper decks to get to the JR's mess.  Then the same walk back to return our plates and cutlery.  Needless to say, the walk back rarely happened and numerous plates were 'lost' over the side.   :dunno: 

They were decent training vessels - particularly for junior officers.  The strengthened bows were just that - apparently strengthened with concrete.  Many a pier and jetty met their fate when a CO came alongside with too much speed.  Nary a scratch on the ship though.  

The very high forecastle and the very low well deck combine to form a near 90 degree angle along the gunwhales.  That part of the hull once opened HMCS Halifax like a can opener back in 1990, IIRC.  Halifax had only recently been commissioned.  Whoops.  My bad.  :-[

An interesting, but trivial note:  HMCS Porte St Jean, my first ship, was actually HIS Majesty's Canadian Ship.


----------



## Good2Golf (19 Apr 2013)

MARS, great to hear about these vessels.  I've heard "pig boats" used for other vessels as well, namely the YAGs.  Was this a common name for rounded hulled ships that had marginal lateral stability?

Regards
G2G


----------



## MARS (19 Apr 2013)

I don't know.  I had never actually heard the term used for any other ships myself.  I had a pejorative for the YAGs that also began with the letter 'P", but that phrase was 'Piece of S***'

For the Gate Vessels, when you applied the helm, many an officer, including myself, could be heard to say "Hurry up and turn, you f****** PIG!"


----------



## Good2Golf (19 Apr 2013)

What was their power?  Diesel? Steam?


----------



## navymich (19 Apr 2013)

Summer & Fall  of '92, I sailed on the Dauphine.  We stayed in company with the Quebec and de la Reine...had to keep your spare parts close by!  The pigs were my first ship, and I didn't have anything else to compare them to at that time.  But the trips were fun, the stories are still plentiful, and the training was actually good.  Regardless of your trade, you stood watch on deck and helped out the bos'ns.  Those were the days when you were definitely a sailor first.

It wasn't quite as long ago as MARS was on them, but a few old things that I remember: typing up messages (I was a sig) on a typewriter using carbon paper.  Wasn't fun when a 3 page message had an error found in it and you had to start all over again!  And we did rescue stations with a whaler!  Now there was a beast to launch over the side.

You can find more info for them on the Ready Aye Ready site:  http://www.readyayeready.com/ships/shipview.php?id=1324&ship=PORTE%20DE%20LA%20REINE


----------



## navymich (19 Apr 2013)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> What was their power?  Diesel? Steam?



G2G, they were diesel.  It was after they were gone that the trade Diesel Mechanic started it's change to MESO (Marine Engineering Systems Operator).


----------



## Colin Parkinson (19 Apr 2013)

We had a buoy tender called the Sir James Douglas, similar size and layout, but powered by direct drive diesels (no neutral) That vessel quickly separated the men from the boys in regards to ship handling. You only got about 10 switches from ahead to astern before the air tanks had to be topped up again.


----------



## MARS (19 Apr 2013)

No idea, actually.  I suppose I must have known the answer to that at some point when I was a junior officer, but for the life of me I cant recall.  _Something_ onboard was powered by steam - there was always a lot of it leaking from whatever hoses the engineers hooked up whenever we were alongside.

'Loud' would be an apt description - whatever the plant.  The XO's cabin in _Jean_ and _Louis_ was aft and below decks, next to some machinery space.  The XO had to wear ear defenders whenever he was in his cabin - doing paperwork, reading a book, sleeping...didn't matter.  If the ship was underway, ear defenders were a requirement.

Bunks were 4-high, until the Navy made sleeping in the top rack verboten.  Too dangerous to get in an out of in heavy seas.  And too dangerous for others when the General Alarm went off and some dude came dropping down on you from 4 racks above as everyone was flying their of their bunks.

I don't ever recall the heads being upgraded from the hand-operated levers which required a series of valves to be opened and 25 pumps of the lever to make your business disappear.  And doors.  I don't recall doors to the heads either.  We must have done _something_ when women starting serving at sea - maybe we got doors then

Damn, I can't believe we still had these things in our ORBAT in the 1990s...

Where is oldgateboatdriver?  He hasn't been on in a while but I gurantee he will have more accurate anectdotes.


----------



## Sailorwest (22 Apr 2013)

They look a little nicer than when I was last on de la Reine. I think that was 95 or 96, just before she was paid off. I remember wondering how I could make off with some peice of the ship for posterity. Pretty sure there were no plank holders around looking to lay claim to parts of her. The gates were drive by a single diesel engine with a right turning screw that caused substantial paddle wheel effect when going astern. Starboard side approaches were interesting because if used too much power astern (i.e. approached jetty too fast), your stern would kick out to port, creating great excitement for all. If you were used to driving the sweeps, with the 9 knot minimum speed, your alongsides would not go so well.


----------



## GK .Dundas (22 Apr 2013)

There's one up for sale In the Vancouver area .I note that she has had a bow thruster added.


----------



## Good2Golf (22 Apr 2013)

Thanks for all the stories about the gate boats...kind of personalizes them for me. BZ, the gate boats' crews.

G2G


----------



## Stoker (22 Apr 2013)

MARS said:
			
		

> No idea, actually.  I suppose I must have known the answer to that at some point when I was a junior officer, but for the life of me I cant recall.  _Something_ onboard was powered by steam - there was always a lot of it leaking from whatever hoses the engineers hooked up whenever we were alongside.
> 
> 'Loud' would be an apt description - whatever the plant.  The XO's cabin in _Jean_ and _Louis_ was aft and below decks, next to some machinery space.  The XO had to wear ear defenders whenever he was in his cabin - doing paperwork, reading a book, sleeping...didn't matter.  If the ship was underway, ear defenders were a requirement.
> 
> ...



The ships were powered by a Dominion Alco 12 cylinder locomotive unit.  Just one machinery space. The steam came from a small boiler, used for heating and domestic hot water. The Port st Jean, had a Evac blackwater system. I sailed as a Engineer for a time on them before I went MCDV's.


----------



## hugh19 (22 Apr 2013)

Actually they where six cylinder diesels.


----------



## Stoker (22 Apr 2013)

sledge said:
			
		

> Actually they where six cylinder diesels.



I stand corrected, thanks for the info.


----------



## dimsum (22 Apr 2013)

Those were the ships where "they" (junior officers?  MARS IV students?) would play some weird drinking game that involved running around the ship and doing a carrier landing in the Wardroom at the end, right?


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (23 Apr 2013)

Yes, the stories I could tell, in my career having gone from O.S.E.R. to Captain on them  !!!!!

First, a little bit of history: Yes, PORTE ST-JEAN was the last Canadian warship commissioned by King George VI, the other vessels of the class were commissioned shortly thereafter, but by young Queen Elizabeth II. They were the last Canadian warships that had armoured hulls (which is why they were mostly submerged: the well deck as a mere three feet above water, while their draft was thirteen feet).

They were exactly what their name entails: Built to operate the anti submarine nets blocking the entrances of Halifax and Esquimalt harbours. They were originally manned by the permanent force and turned over to the reserve in the late sixties. At first, three were East and two West (PORTE DAUPHINE made the switch when the RCMP handed FORT STEELE over to the East coast fleet). They were all left hand screwed, so sorry Sailorwest, but it was the port alongsides that were a bitch (paddlewheel effect worked going ahead too, so a good GV helmsman knew that at speed ahead, Port 3 was your perfect midship). No, the rumour that a "second batch" of right hand screwed ones to complete the pairs were never built is false: never was in the plans. In their lifetime, they were modified on countless occasion, so that at the end, they looked nothing like they originally did (see the picture of PORTE QUEBEC above as the original look). And at the end, the East coast ones were different than the West coast ones.

They were called PIG boats because they were a bitch to handle at slow speed in any type of current or wind. This is because they were designed as light icebreaker (and were often used as such to clear the approach to Ammo jetty in Bedford basin when the destroyer or frigates needed to go there in winter) and therefore, they had a heavily raked hull form at the front. Thus, as soon as the peak  of the bow came under water, it immediately turned in and came to maximum depth under the middle of the well deck. As a result, there was nothing to prevent the bow from swinging left or right (no deadwood area) while the foc'sole was massive and caught any type of wind. Overall, they also handled (turning radius, loss or gain of speed, etc) with characteristics that were close to those of the old steamers.

We took pride in our PIG status: In the early 80's, we even designed a "special" dangerous trade badge to wear on our work dress (then used as Naval combat): It looked like a submariner's badge but with two pigs laying down on either side of the Mappleleaf. We also had badges made that revealed our unofficial motto: P ride, I integrity, G uts.

Mars, you are confused: They never, ever, had the "hand-pump" heads, and at the end, because of the pollution control regulations, they all had a vacusan system - or equivalent.

One year, we called in Gloucester, USA at the time of their Fair. One of the P.O.O.W. came back with three similar large stuffed animal pigs: one white, one red, one blue. Need I tell you they  became the "pigs of the watch" and were proudly carried on and off the wheelhouse at the right juncture. No JOUT ever had to ask "Which watch is on now?" ever again that summer.

One of their little quirk was that they  had compressed air foghorns. On the East coast, we sailed in fog all the time in the summer. Every three or four soundings (it varied because the system was hand operated: the helmsman or POOW held up his watch and every "two-minutes or about" pulled the lever - the intervals were very approximative), the large compressors would kick in in the engine room - and all the electric distribution onboard would flicker. That would be fine except that every time, it caused the DECCA navigator to slip lanes or later the Loran C to lose signal, and you would just recover them in time for the next compressor air charge. The pilot never left the bridge at night in fog - and navigating by DR with a few radar long range distance and bearing became more precise than the electronics.

Oh, and Dimsum, I think you are thinking of the PB's, the old minesweepers modified for JO training on the West coast. In the Gate vessels, the wardroom - for up to eleven officers, was the size of a junior officer's cabin on a HALIFAX class ship: you could not possibly do a carrier landing in it if your life depended on it.

Anyway, I could go on but will leave it at this: For those of us who made a career onboard these little vessels, we perversely became affectively very attached to them and were sad to see them go.


----------



## Colin Parkinson (23 Apr 2013)

Oh Decca, got to train on it, but never had to use it. All Loran C on the West Coast.


----------



## Good2Golf (23 Apr 2013)

OGBD, what was min crew?  Probably a bit big for a retirement vessel to do the grand loop?


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (23 Apr 2013)

We sometimes "cold moved" across the harbour with only 12 - and that was tough close-run thing.

You have to remember that everything was "hand-draulics". Only one whinch, on the foc'sole, for no. 1 line. The other three had to be done by force of man (some would say at time, sheer force of will). The engines were hand operated in the engine room so you needed someone to answer the telegraph and another one to actually operate the clutch and the throttle in the engine room and one helmsman for the wheel (the last "classic" large wood wheel in the Navy, at four feet diameter) plus one telegraph man in the wheelhouse to pass the orders.

You could go on the grand loop if you rigged direct wheelhouse control and replaced the steering system with an auto pilot, I suppose. They definitely had the range - about 8500 to 9000 NM on a fill, with 20% reserve - and with their bottom heavy weight distribution, are unbelievably good sea boats. Plus, the old Alco diesels were impossible to kill.


----------



## Good2Golf (23 Apr 2013)

I'd put an ALCO 251 in my basement if I thought I could get away with it!  The Pig would make a very interesting sailer if, as you noted, it were significantly automated (and a now thruster).  How many tons of fuel OGBD?

Cheers
G2G


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (23 Apr 2013)

You must be an airman 

We don't usually measure fuel in tons but in barrels.

I haven't reviewed my Eng. notes for a while but I seem to recall a total figure of 900 barrels for all three tanks, but I could be out to lunch on that one.


----------



## Good2Golf (23 Apr 2013)

Lol...No, that would be pounds...although I used to burn a ton per hour. ;D  I thought decent-sized vessels measure fuel in tons.

Ah yes, barrels, I know them well! Wobble pumping many of them up North have me (and my arms) a good appreciation of how much fuel each 55gal drum can be. :nod:

If diesel is about 7.6-7.8lb/gal I think each barrel is good for ~420 lbs or about 5 bbls per ton.  Just trying to assess how much of my pension would go towards fuel? 

Cheers
G2G


----------



## hugh19 (23 Apr 2013)

The west coast pigs had blackwater going over the side until the end. Always got blue rockets in American ports!


----------



## Stoker (26 Apr 2013)

sledge said:
			
		

> The west coast pigs had blackwater going over the side until the end. Always got blue rockets in American ports!



The Porte St Jean on the East Coast was the only ship to have a collection system. The others went straight over the side.


----------

