# The Fifth Estate:  "Life And Death In Kandahar" airing 12 Mar 08



## Eye In The Sky (7 Mar 2008)

For all the _STARLIGHT_ types out there  

Wednesday March 12, 2008

*LIFE and Death in Kandahar*

To the sound of incoming choppers carrying wounded for treatment, the fifth estate takes you where most Canadians will never go: to the critical drama at the heart of Canada's war in Afghanistan. For four weeks, fifth estate cameras had exclusive access to Canada's military trauma center at Kandahar Air base--think MASH unit, 21st century style-- and to the medical professionals who work there, fighting their own battles at the turning point between life and death.

Wherever you stand on Canada's Afghan mission, you will want to meet these remarkable professionals, captured with unprecedented intimacy and candour, as they work under constant pressure at the cutting edge of modern warfare. 

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/


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## retiredgrunt45 (7 Mar 2008)

I've marked that on my callendar.


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## medicineman (7 Mar 2008)

Coolness.

MM


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## OldSolduer (7 Mar 2008)

I will be encouraging all members of my unit to watch this. Us infantry types need to know what the trauma centre is all about. The troops will perform at a higher standard knowing that a good trauma centre is backing them.
I've often said that I'll forego a fourth section in a platoon if I get a damn good medic and a good signaller.


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## PMedMoe (7 Mar 2008)

We received an email at work regarding this program.  I have my calendar marked as well.


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## Mike Baker (7 Mar 2008)

Got it marked...


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## S.Stewart (9 Mar 2008)

Definately worth watching.


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## karl28 (9 Mar 2008)

Most definitely going to watch this .


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## Osotogari (9 Mar 2008)

I wonder what kind of slant they're going to have and how they're going to skew their interviews, footage, and "findings" to further it


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## RatCatcher (10 Mar 2008)

Having been in the unit during the filming, I am very excited to see it. The reporters seemed very impressed at the work of the unit. The only down part, IMHO, is the fact that they neglected to speak to other sections of unit. For example FMed and PMed, while not as rating grabbing as trauma are very important part of the unit and KAF as a whole. Of course I am jaded... I am PMed...lol. Anyway, it might be a good watch for new medics and other trades who view "inside the wire" types as not facing stress. 

The other thing I would have liked seeing is the mass cal we had, but the reporters were already gone. 

Cheers


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## Kilroy (11 Mar 2008)

I had the unfortunate chance to be served by these fine people when i had a suspected heart attack. (Turned out to be just a massive stress / panic attack) Thier work is amazing, and I couldn't touch thier abilities with a 10 foot pole. I for one can't wait to see this!!


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## fire_guy686 (11 Mar 2008)

Definitely going to check that out.


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## Bzzliteyr (11 Mar 2008)

I look forward to seeing all my Role 3/Pri care buddies!!!

They were great friends and I thought for me (an armour crewman) to hang out with and see what they do (is there really anything more fun to do in KAF than hang out with medics?) was very eye opening and kind of showed me the other side of the coin, as I was usually outside the wire.

I hope they do a great report on those very valuable people in the CF (and other nations).


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## westie47 (11 Mar 2008)

But of course, it's 'Mo night tomorrow.......so unless it is on again, I will be missing it. Crossfit, Gunfighter, Pl Atks...yay!


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## RatCatcher (11 Mar 2008)

As with all great CBC investigative reports it will be repeated numerous times on newsworld, check www.cbc.ca/fifth.


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## Yrys (11 Mar 2008)

Also :

"Revealed: Path To War" on Global

Tuesday, March 11, 2008

ON, QC & BC - 10 P.M.
MB, SK – 9 P.M.
AB & Maritimes – 8 P.M.  



... and if you're bilingual : 

Entrevue du colonel Luc Marchal, ex-compagnon d’armes du général Dallaire


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## observor 69 (11 Mar 2008)

Yrys said:
			
		

> Also :
> 
> "Revealed: Path To War" on Global
> 
> ...



"Drawing on the research and reporting of the best-selling book "The Unexpected War" by Janice Gross Stein & Eurgene Lang."
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/revealed/index.html

Great book by Stein and Lang. As I said over in Military Literature the book describes a lot of the inside political analysis and manoeuvring that led to our growing involvement in Afghanistan.


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## Flip (12 Mar 2008)

Having watched "The Path To War" doc. on Global I can say that it was more of a book promo than anything.  There is a tone of Canada sliding down a slippery slope but the history of the thing gets straightened out.  Like I said - A book promo.


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## Yrys (12 Mar 2008)

12 Mar 08

Which mean tonight...


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## Celticgirl (12 Mar 2008)

Flip said:
			
		

> Having watched "The Path To War" doc. on Global I can say that it was more of a book promo than anything.  There is a tone of Canada sliding down a slippery slope but the history of the thing gets straightened out.  Like I said - A book promo.



It certainly was underwhelming, in my opinion. Furthermore, it gave credence to the widespread belief that George Bush is running the show and the Canadian troops are just puppets doing his bidding. The politicians tried so hard to discredit each other that they all ended up looking like buffoons. That's just my take on it. Book promo...definitely.


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## The_Falcon (12 Mar 2008)

Watching it right now, and of course the CBC can't just document the excellent work of the medical staff, they have stir up the political stuff, and the why are we here/should we be here (especially with the civy doctors).


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## Yrys (12 Mar 2008)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> and the why are we here/should we be here (especially with the civy doctors).



I'm wondering why the civy doc weren't appraise of why we're there and "not in Darfur or Burrma",
like one of them said.


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## Bzzliteyr (12 Mar 2008)

That's okay.. I am watching it in HD right now and it's looking great.. sad to see our young trooper having passed through the doors there.  However, I missed it all as I was on leave when it happened.  It is/was great to see so many familiar faces as I watch!!


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## RatCatcher (12 Mar 2008)

I have only one comment... too much Doc and Nurse... They are not the only ones in the unit....


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## Kilo_302 (12 Mar 2008)

Just watched it, and I though it was very well done. Although the main story was the hospital itself, I don't have a problem with a journalist asking someone's opinion of the war. It's their job. I saw a similar  American program, I think it was called "Baghdad ER" and it lacked any discussion of the war at all. I thought it was a sham, because you KNOW people talk about it. As for the civilian doctors, one had an opinion, the other didn't. BOTH were there however, and BOTH were saving lives. Good for them (and the patients they treat) . I am sure their political views aren't affecting their performance.


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## Maelstrom (12 Mar 2008)

Being a civilian who has started the process of joining the CF, I found this really interesting. Especially so because my first choice is Med Tech and I was really looking forward to some more insight about the career/ current operations. But overall, still a great look at what our medical team is doing at the hospital.


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## xo31@711ret (13 Mar 2008)

Good show, but as ratcatcher, not enough on enough on the Troops (med techs, Pmed, lab, etc) except for Doug L, the MWO, who looked like he hadn't changed much in the last 15 years.


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## Flip (13 Mar 2008)

As I expected, I was bustin' with pride at what The medical people were doing.
They seemed to extrapolate on M*A*S*H a little. Not in a good way either.

I did feel like I wanted to give the One doctor a bit of a shake but the career 
Army surgeon more than made up for it.

All in all, not bad.
The images were a rather stark. I'm a little concerned that some people might consider that "reality" to be a reason to pull the plug on the whole mission.

It was a good day to be Canadian.


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## observor 69 (13 Mar 2008)

I thought the whole program was well done. Good on the CBC. As said some docs had questions about the mission but they had also accepted and were meeting the challenge of working under a stressfull situation. 
My major thought is as one person remarked it has been 50 ? years since Canadians have seen this kind of combat and casualties. 
Bringing home the reality of the price members of our military have to pay as our government proceeds with this mission.


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## MarkOttawa (13 Mar 2008)

Damian Brooks let you know what he really thinks of the Global programme in a post at _The Torch_:

On the promotional video for "Unexpected War Canada In Kandahar"
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/03/on-promotional-video-for-unexpected-war.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## Redeye (13 Mar 2008)

I was pretty impressed - this almost seemed like it would have been a doc that would have showed up on Rough Cuts or Panorama - well done though I can understand the thoughts about not enough focus on the troops - but it was overall pretty impressive.  My wife opted not to watch it as she knows I'm trying to get everything in order to get a slot on TF 1-10 and I guess the idea of what can happen there isn't something she wants to dwell on.  I was particularly impressed with the civvies - their ability to focus on the job and have a apolitical role - it was impressive.  I wish I had written down the quote about how awful war is - "but if they are to be fought, they're to be won."  I thought that was a great line.


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## RatCatcher (13 Mar 2008)

Doc Neil was the one who said it on the show. He is very well read and verbose to boot. If only I had written down some of the things he said I would be able to laugh for a long time....


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## Eye In The Sky (13 Mar 2008)

A some people pointed out, the reporters did ask questions on what the civilian doctors had to say about the political aspect, but, IMO, the overall answer to that was "we are not concerned about that, we are here to help save lifes" or that was the message _I_ pulled out of the comments overall.  I guess its all perspective.

As for the comments on the amount of the troops that were showen, agreed but CBC had an hour to get whatever point they wanted to get across, and whether its fair or not, the high end help usually get the exposure in the media.  Thats normal, although I do not agree with it.

Maybe the footage was 'sanitized' some for those that know what war really looks like, but this show was not for Army News, it was for the average Tim and Tina Taxpayer who would be watching.

Either way, BZ to the STARLIGHT folks that proudly wear the same uniform as you and I do.


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## Pea (13 Mar 2008)

Our Sgt told our course about the documentary in class yesterday, so a group of us Med Tech's-in-training sat down together and watched it last night. We were glued to the screen for the entire time, and we were all pretty proud of those doing the jobs we aspire to do in the near future. It was eye opening and interesting for our group for sure. (pretty cool to learn something in class that day and then see it being done on TV, over there)


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## medicineman (13 Mar 2008)

I managed to watch it last night - 9D was almost in tears through most of it.  It was nice to see some old faces, some I hadn't seen in years and didn't even know got back in (Dr West for instance).  Dave Evans was one of my (many) attending trauma surgeons when I was in Vancouver - he had just gone through the application process if I recall and was getting ready to go over.  Definitely glad not to see any friends coming through those doors as customers.  The only negative I have to say was that they started trying to politicize the why's and wherefore's of the mission a little too much.  

MM


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## LordOsborne (14 Mar 2008)

I watched it in HD last night with my father. I thought it was well done program, and I came away with a renewed appreciation for the amazing job our medical personnel do for us all.


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## RTaylor (14 Mar 2008)

Got home from work, tired as hell. Saw this post and thought "Sounds interesting", then I watched the video on the site.

People that think that military is nothing but hate inspired war mongers should be put in a room and made to watch shows like this. It's a definite eye opener. 

Another great bit I've seen is the National Geographic show on the American Green Berets...find it on a torrent site if you can, probably one of the best American documentaries I've seen lately on their military.


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## fraserdw (15 Mar 2008)

Personally, I thought it was well done, although I doubt a single opponent to a successful mission in the 'Stan watched the whole thing or had even a slight change of opinion.  The local anti army group here was blogging a boycott of episode and program for it's members.


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## RTaylor (15 Mar 2008)

Yeah I hate people that refuse to understand something and try to change everyone else's minds through uneducated petitioning, attacks and so forth. I see alot of it where I live. It's funny where I am because hte people literally have no clue and they aren't "in your face", but in other places...well...

Great episode is all I gotta say, and it's up on the web to watch again and again which I may do.


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## OldSolduer (15 Mar 2008)

My troops are going to watch it in about 45 minutes....I taped it.


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## sgf (15 Mar 2008)

fraserdw said:
			
		

> Personally, I thought it was well done, although I doubt a single opponent to a successful mission in the 'Stan watched the whole thing or had even a slight change of opinion.  The local anti army group here was blogging a boycott of episode and program for it's members.



It was extremely well done, but I expected nothing less.. from the CBC or the Medical Professionals, both civilian and miltiary. Why would you expect a documentary to change anyones mind on their stand regarding the war? Do you think that anyone that supports the mission, changed their mind and now is suddenly against the war? hardly,so why would you expect the reverse? I know a lot of people that do not support the mission watched the entire program. The program wasnt about supporting or not support the war, it was about the operation of the hospital. There are a lot of people that support the military but dont agree with this particular mission including some of the medical team in this documentary. The segment on the small boy that was brought in by his grandfather was very touching, and I wonder what ever became of him.


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## Bzzliteyr (15 Mar 2008)

sgf, as I peruse my over 1200 photos I took while in country, I often ask myself the same thing.. what has happened to these people and have we made an impact?  I always hope in my mind that we did, and that they appreciate the fact that we came all the way over to their country, on their request, voluntarily to help them rebuild and take control.


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## RTaylor (15 Mar 2008)

If you've given even 1 day of freedom, or opened their eyes to the outside world you've made a difference. Once they have that taste in their mouth or idea in their heads people can, and will, move forth with it.

Hate fears education, it prefer's fear as a tool which is why most of the middle east is in the state they are in.


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## sgf (15 Mar 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> sgf, as I peruse my over 1200 photos I took while in country, I often ask myself the same thing.. what has happened to these people and have we made an impact?  I always hope in my mind that we did, and that they appreciate the fact that we came all the way over to their country, on their request, voluntarily to help them rebuild and take control.


what struck me about this particular segement, was the care the child received at the hospital as opposed to his every day life. that contrast was almost too much to watch. Also another thing, the immense love the grandfather had for the boy and how he was not afraid of incurring the wrath of the Taliban in order to get care for his grandson.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (15 Mar 2008)

sgf
On the Fifth Estate web site it said that the little boy was able to come back to the hospital for a followup check up and the he was doing well, except, that he had a small(1.5cm) wound under his left eye that hadn't healed and they cleaned it up for him and and gave him some antibiotics.  He has not come back to the hospital, (they live 7 hrs by taxi away)but his grandfather passed a message through an interperter that he was doing well and the wound had healed.
God speed to that little guy and his family.  It does the heart good to see stories like that.  I think we forget how easy we have it here in Canada.  I get frustrated when I can't get an doc appt. and have to go to the emergency room.  Can't imagine having to travel 7hrs just to go to the doc, much less, not being able to do it because it's either that or feed the rest of my family for a week.
Candian soldiers are making a difference and I appreciate them for that!!


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## sgf (15 Mar 2008)

thank you for that.... i missed seeing that...


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## Kilroy (16 Mar 2008)

To anyone that missed this, and would like to see it, I can very easily put it onto a DVD. I will do this for people that want to see it, but please be reasonable, I can't make like 100 copies.


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## PMedMoe (16 Mar 2008)

I'm pretty sure it will be available for viewing on The Fifth Estate's website in the near future.


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## Gunner98 (16 Mar 2008)

Although I was out of the country on TD, I have now watched this show on tape.  I personally know many of the people who were profiled.  I found the edited storyline to be disjointed and the inflamatory questions to civilian doctors unfair.  These physicians are being paid between $5,000-$8,000 per day during their deployment, does CBC really expect them to bite the golden hand that feeds their wallet? 

I find the timing of its airing to be indicative of CBC's real opinion of the mission and their chance to rock the boat.  IMHO, to run the show in the middle of the government's debate and the night before the House of Commons vote demonstrates an obvious attempt to stir the pot and show the people of Canada what they can continue to expect in the daily news.  I felt that CBC certainly made an attempt to sensationalize any sound bites reflecting criticism of the mission.  

IMHO, they focussed on the deaths, the detainee and the care provided to the little boy too much (keeping the Dutch role in his injury as a gotcha for the viewers) rather than providing any statistics to indicate the successes.  While trying to show the human side of medical staff, they felt it necessary to find them in compromising positions like just after a visit to the morgue to get those teary-eyed shots.  Probing Sandra with the 'mothering comments' until she walks away in frustration.  

I was very proud of the way in which the tireless 'Rat Man' (Maj Terry Ratkowski - Oral-Maxo-facial Surgeon), Dr. Sandra and Doug Libby handled the camera following their movements and being shoved in their faces at awkward moments.   
  
I look forward to speaking with them about how they felt about their profile presented versus that which ended up on the cutting room floor.


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## RatCatcher (27 Mar 2008)

FE; I too was impressed, and would love to hear their answer to that question also. But also about how they feel about the fact that the piece basically ignores the role of the Med Tech and other support services (with the exception of the Big Lib). I know that my wife was interviewed and there is no use of her footage. 

I could go on a rant about how PMed was totally ignored but nobody wants to follow around a PMed while he inspects a TH or take water samples...let alone watch it on TV. 

FE, If you get a chance to see the people you mentioned pass on a BZ from me.


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## OldSolduer (27 Mar 2008)

Hey Rat....its all about ratings my friendly Rodent Catcher...following and filming a PMed is not "sexy" like surgeons and ERs.
Another example...the guy that issues socks in KAF is not as viewable as the infanteer on patrol or the tanker in his Leo.


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## beenthere (27 Mar 2008)

The name of the documentary "Life And Death in Kandahar" would indicate what it's all about. Life sustained by a top notch trauma team who do their best regardless of the  status of the patient and the fact that regretably here are some who are beyond help. That seems logical to me. 
If it was Rat Catching in Kandahar viewers would no doubt expect to see the rat patrol in action. 
They never mentioned it but maybe this is just the first in a series and rat patrols, sock squads and all of the rest will follow.


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