# 64 Pat Rucksack Mounted on Downeast 1606AC Airborne Molle Frame



## Crapgame (18 May 2011)

Down East Inc in Maine manufactured the original pack frames for the US Molle II System.  The first frames absolutely sucked in the eyes of endusers.  The plastic was brittle and broke easily, causing many a trooper to suck it up and drive on with a broken ruck on his back.   The design was changed and the plastic improved, and has since, served its purpose for the most part.  And as Canadian Troopers complain often of their issue equipment, the US Army is no different.   

A few years ago, Down East introduced their 1606 "Airborne" Molle Frame, a shortened and narrow tapered improved design.  This Airborne Frame changed from the M1944 Packboard-style layout to a more compact A shaped form.  This frame was available for aftermarket purchase and was adopted as part of rucksack designs for the Australian Military.







Some clever individuals adapted the 1606 Frame to the US LC-2 All Purpose Lightweight Individual Carry Equipment, aka "ALICE" Pack or more affectionately referred to as the "Green Tick" for its bloated form that just sucks the blood out of you on long road marches.   Down East responded by changing the 1606 design slightly so the top brace would fit into the Alice pack frame pocket with no modifications resulting in the 1606AC.  






After a short eval over on www.Lightfighter.net of the 1606AC installed onto a current Afghanistan-theatre-issued Multicam (or Operation Enduring Freedom Camo Pattern-OCP) Molle II Large Rucksack:  
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9046084761/m/57520638663 a Canadian Forces Trooper inquired if the 1606AC was adaptable to the 1964 Pattern Rucksack System.   After some experimentation in the wee hours of the morning, I was indeed able to securely mount the 64 Ruck Bag, Valise and A7 Straps to the 1606AC Frame.  My "Jump Ruck" is a Mat Tech modified Ruck Bag, with 82 Pattern Shoulder Straps and US LC-2 Alice Pack Waist Belt.
 I was able to first install the 82 Pat Shoulder Straps/Lat Pad, the 64 Pack with the vertical attachment straps extended to at least 18in long, and a US Alice Waist Belt with strap assy.

The 1606AC is about 2.5" shorter in height, and about 2.5" wider at the horizontal supports. 

The ruck will ride higher. So if you have the 64 Bag full, plus your Thermarest and Valise, you may have problems with the Gallet bumping against the Valise, limiting your visual range.

The good news is, when you cinch the load lifters on the shoulder straps, the 1606AC Frame really flexes as your walk, it won't beat you up like the Alice, 64 or 82 "birdcage" frame.

The 82 Pattern Shoulder Strap Assy needs to be installed first. It would fit better if the 2 horizontal straps could be shortened on the buckle side. Take some Timmies down to your Mat Techs, have them alter the 2 horizontal straps, lengthen the two vertical ruck attachment straps to at least 16", 18" would be even better, and make two longer waist pad install straps, at least 30" at a minimum, 32-34" is even better. 









Install the 64 Pattern Rucksack Bag on the frame, run the two vertical straps through one of the 2 horizontal slits under the lat pad, up through the one horizontal slit on the wide horizontal support arm, around the rectangular rucksack ring, back through that horizontal slit. 

Run the lower friction buckle through the large handle hole in the lower frame and cinch down the vertical ruck attach strap.

I attached the two rectangular lower ruck attachment rings to the Alice Waist Belt using the custom or US GI Strap. Run the strap from inside the frame, thru the middle waist belt slot, around the Alice Waist Belt Ring, around the ruck ring, and back through the same waist belt slot. Do the same for the other side and cinch down with buckle, tape loose end.

Use the other waist strap to secure the two shoulder strap attachment rings on the ruck bag bottom corners. Run the strap from inside the frame, through the lower waist strap slits around the ring, back through the either slit. Do the same for the other side then cinch down the strap and tape your loose ends.

Attach the shoulder strap quick release strap thru the top waist belt slit.

I attached the A7 Straps through the large slots on the top frame, then down behind the ruck bag to the larger 2 slots just above the handle holes in the lower frame. Then through the long horizontal slits under the handle cut-out, and back up over top the ruck bag to better cinch down the entire Valise and Ruck Bag.













I haven't tried tabbing with this 64/82/Alice/1606 Ruck-Frame combination as of yet. So your mileage may vary.
With a heavily stuffed ruck bag and valise you may have trouble going prone then trying to get eyes on the C79 Elcan while wearing the CG634 Gallet Ballistic Helmet. 

The Down East 1606AC Alice Compatable Airborne Frame are  $35.91 plus shipping at direct sales: http://downeastinc.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php


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## gt102 (6 Sep 2011)

My interest is incredibly peaked.

What's the load rating for the frame? The past 2 years now I've been using the CPGear 64 GenIII Pack on an American ALICE frame. The 'squeaking' from the metal frame to the shoulder straps when backpacking drives me insane. Then the flex factor also has me drooling a bit...

REGARDLESS if you have any idea about the load rating I would be forever thankful.


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## chinooktech (11 Sep 2011)

max load 200lbs but they sell larger frames 1603


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## gt102 (16 Sep 2011)

Thanks a bunch - where'd you aquire this information? If it's on the website I'm at a loss. I'll assume you called/emailed them?


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## MikeL (16 Sep 2011)

The Crowe it's pretty easy to find, google Down East frames, click on the Down East Inc page, on the left side of the webpage theres a tab that says "Pack Frames"  click on each of their frames and it lists the specs and max weight, etc

http://www.downeastinc.com/Category.php/?Link=PackFrames


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## gt102 (18 Sep 2011)

Ah - I was at the right site... just the wrong area (The Store vs. their product listings).

Cheers -Skeletor-!


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## chinooktech (20 Sep 2011)

since my last post i`ve been emailing Mark Wheeler from cpgear and he sounds interested in making these frames available on his web site, so you`d be able to purchase the 1606ac frame and 64 pattern rucksack (available in arid cadpat and woodland cadpat). good business for him but i think he`s is a little unsure if there's a market for the frame, so if you think you`d buy the frame or rucksack completely let me know so i can give him a quick potential sale report. it would save us on shipping the frames seeing as how cpgear is in canada.


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## gt102 (1 Nov 2011)

chinooktech - Deff interested in a Canadian Vendor... I hate getting my leather cherio violated by shipping charges.

Although I would be more inclined to love the 1603.


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## chriscalow (3 Nov 2011)

Im in.


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## ballz (22 Nov 2011)

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, since the 82 pattern shoulder straps have come up, does anyone know or know how to find out what the 82 pattern rucksack's quick-release shoulder straps are called and if there is a patent on them?


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## Lerch (23 Nov 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> I didn't want to start a new thread for this, since the 82 pattern shoulder straps have come up, does anyone know or know how to find out what the 82 pattern rucksack's quick-release shoulder straps are called and if there is a patent on them?



I can't imagine a patent on anything other than the plastic hardware used for the rigging. Just take it apart and you might find the manufactures name printed on the pieces.


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## riggermade (23 Nov 2011)

Manufacturing of any kit is a cut throat business and pretty hard to patent...doesn't take much to change something to get around a patent


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## FistoftheNorthStar (23 Apr 2012)

Crapgame: Thanks for your pictures and insight! I just placed an order for the 1606 and it will be here in no more than 7 days! Im really happy its coming quick bc my ALICE frame is being held together with guntape as a result of a freak tabbing accident this weekend past :facepalm:

I have a BFT coming up on the 1rst of June, does anyone know if there is a break-in period for these frames? Last year I did the BFT in 1:50, and Im training to do it quicker this year. Id like to make sure im not going to break my new frame 8)!

Anyone else have any tips for rigging styles for fast moving with a 60lbs ALICE BAG?


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## PJGary (24 Apr 2012)

ballz said:
			
		

> I didn't want to start a new thread for this, since the 82 pattern shoulder straps have come up, does anyone know or know how to find out what the 82 pattern rucksack's quick-release shoulder straps are called and if there is a patent on them?



"I lost my yoke...and also my valise"

"How?"

"...magic?"


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## FistoftheNorthStar (2 May 2012)

I received my frame today and put it all together. It was kind of tricky because my shoulder straps are from the ERYX system (padding is like couch cushions  ;D). The way this frame swoops in from the top to the bottom it conforms to your back, and IMHO carries the weight much better. the true test will be tomorrow as I have an 8km march. Ill report back tomorrow and let everyone know how it held up!


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## fraserdw (3 May 2012)

I ordered mine yesterday from DEI.  Does anyone know why the DWAN considers their a domain with a bad reputation?  Has anyone else ordered lately.


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## FistoftheNorthStar (5 May 2012)

Ya I just received mine a few days ago. I ordered it online from the GPnet and picked it up at the CFPost 7 days later. This is an amazing product!


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## FistoftheNorthStar (5 May 2012)

I should add that IOT use this frame and my tackvest, I had to remove the bottom straps that connect the back of the vest with the sides. It might just be the kidney strap that I have, but I should have done this while I was still using the issue jump frame.


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## fraserdw (6 May 2012)

Roger that and thanks for the heads up and accept these Milpoints in return!


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## fraserdw (9 May 2012)

Frame received today.  It will not work with the CP GEAR P64 bag as the straps are very far apart.  Works great with the issue bag.  I used the CP Gear GENIII shoulder straps and waist belt.  For a back pad I used the CP Gear extra back pad for their P64 yoke, it needed to be lengthen but it fits just fine.


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## Lerch (29 Jun 2012)

fraserdw pm'ed me earlier about CPGear's new Multiframe Gen4 64 Ruck.

http://www.cpgear.com/store/pack/64_pack_t62-1_rucksack.htm

Lots of cool improvements, both to the bag and harness.


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## fraserdw (30 Jun 2012)

Multicam!!!!


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## Jarnhamar (30 Jun 2012)

Slightly off topic I noticed this pack and all the materials are made in te US/Canada.
That's awesome, I never cared before but these days everything seems to be made in china. When I shop the first thing I check now is where was it made.   Good on CP gear


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## MikeL (30 Jun 2012)

This Gen4 is looking pretty good,  has some nice improvements/new features.  Ability to use issue pouches is nice,   as well as being able to use those DEI frames.


For anyone who's wondering(I was anyways),  I emailed CP Gear and asked if the ruck can be mounted high,  as well which CTS pouches(small pack or ruck) can fit the 64pack.



> Hi Mike,
> Thanks for for email.
> 1. No I don't think mounting high is going to work. You'll run out of places to attach because you also have the shoulder straps and yoke in that area too.
> 2. The CTS pouches and Butt Pack in the video are the DND issued ones (we don't make them). Not really sure what pack in the CF they originate from...sorry!
> ...


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## fraserdw (30 Jun 2012)

CTS pouches, whether rucksack or patrol pack mount using the daisy chain system, either should mount but I think they are the same pouches.  ANyone with both know?

You can mount high if you use the P64 Yoke by CP Gear instead of the new backpad and shoulder strap system on the P64. P82 and ALICE frame anyway.  I have not tried the yoke on the 1600 series frames.   But the data on mounting the yoke to the 1606 above by the original OP would apply probably.


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## MikeL (30 Jun 2012)

fraserdw said:
			
		

> CTS pouches, whether rucksack or patrol pack mount using the daisy chain system, either should mount but I think they are the same pouches.  ANyone with both know?



Yes, they both mount using the same system,  but the size of the pouches that come with the Rucksack are larger then the Small Pack Pouches.   I watched the video again,  and they were using the small pack pouches.


I just compared the small pack pouches to the rucksack ones and unless CP Gear has more attachment points the rucksack pouches won't fit.  There is an extra 2 inches of spacing between the top and bottom attachment clips on the rucksack pouches compared to the small pack ones.


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## fraserdw (1 Jul 2012)

Roger that, so the pouches are from the small or patrol pack.  Still it is an excellent use of issue equipment with Gucci Kit to give re-birth to a tried and true rucksack sytem.  I guy can use his issue kit to save a little and still get that custom look and feel.


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## fraserdw (5 Jul 2012)

Received my GEN4 CP Gear pack today.  I approve.  The pack has been re-designed to fit both patrol pack and rucksack pouches.  The bag is deep and the waterproof liner is excellent!


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## MeatheadMick (25 Aug 2012)

I ordered one today a long with the MoFOCR. Cost a shit-load, but at least I know I'll have some solid, reliable kit.  I have a 64 frame and I purchased the 1606 so I'll see which one I prefer better. The big thing that concerned me and that I talked to Mr. Wheeler about was there seemed to be a gap between the back bad and the hip bad, especially noticeable while mounted on the 64 frame.  I'm 6'4" so we'll see if the gap causes any concern. I'm definitely excited for my order to come in.


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## MikeL (26 Aug 2012)

I hope you checked with your CoC to confirm you are able to use those items before you spent that kind of money.


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## MeatheadMick (30 Aug 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> I hope you checked with your CoC to confirm you are able to use those items before you spent that kind of money.



In unit lines, Rucksuck is a go, so far the Rig is a no go, but up for review.
Fortunately, I'm going to be attached with the infantry and get some time off from the meat-locker. My OC over there already gave the green light.. and co-incidentally uses the same rig.


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## MeatheadMick (30 Aug 2012)

On another note does anyone have any tips on how to get this bad boy put together? lol


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## MeatheadMick (7 Sep 2012)

Moved Review to Here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107385.html


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