# QL3 course, what are these rumours?



## Cdnrednk

I'm about to start my QL3 next month, but we keep hearing rumours about us not going to the justice institute in chilliwack for the second part of our training. And something about us being changed to a college in Barrie or a college (I would suspect niagara college) in st catherines. Any word on this?
Also, I remember reading we get an "advanced" corporal promotion, and some of us disagree on the facts involving this one.


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## aesop081

oohoooo oooohooo......


rumours, my favorite


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## Donut

The contract for the training was tendered some time ago; I have not seen it so this is just more grist for the rumour mill.

It has been circulating here in BC that there were geographic limits placed on where the training could occur, which precluded the JIBC from bidding on the project.  Something to the effect of training must occur withing X00km of CFB Borden, and precepting must occur within X000 km of CFB Borden.

I am no longer associated with the JI, so I'm not in the loop on this one, but I would not be at all surprised if the JI were no longer delivering the tng.

DF


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## PMedMoe

We did ours through Humber College in Toronto.  Of course, that was waaayy back in '96.  :  Who know what they have in mind now?  Being closer to Borden would be better admin-wise.


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## Armymedic

This would not surprise me if it happened. Not everyone has been impressed with what JIBC has brought.

Also the logistics of having new troops closer to the school makes a whole bunch of sense.


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## PO2FinClk

ASD = Alternate Service Delivery.

Still in the works for many occupations and is anticipated that will commence for most this fall. It is intended to assist in reduce teh backlog of PAT's.


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## Southern Boy

JIBC will still be institution for PCP trg for now. Disregard all rumours.


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## blasty_bough

Southern Boy is correct. JIBC is the institution for  QL3 PCP training. The other comments posted are bits and pieces of other contracts of which JIBC is one of the competitors. As for the quality of the product that graduates from JIBC - its is exactly what the CF requested and the PCP training is excellent. Judging by some of the comments posted, its unbelieveable how critical we are of ourselves. I remember my Sgts and WOs making some of those same comments way back when.


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## bisonmedic

I would not go as far as saying the training is excellent, it does the job, but there are better places for this type of training.  The CF has to look long and hard at all the options and make the right choice, cheaper is not always better no doubt. We cannot always make everyone happy all the time, but there can be a happy medium.  As for all the rumours, try not to post stuff that cannot be proven as fact, that causes trouble for all of us down the road. Medicine and the ways of delivering it has always been a fluid creature, it could be time to try a new training establishment or not .


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## herseyjh

It is my understanding that there are a few other names in PCP training in BC.  I can see people's point of view regarding the admin cost of sending troops from Borden all the way to BC.  I have always wondered if a similar model of PCP training could be set up in Alberta especially considering the number of PCP programs there.


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## bisonmedic

There are a few schools in Alberta that can fill the need for pre hospital care training. NAIT and SAIT are the big ones in Edmonton and Calgary, PMA in St. Albert , and some smaller schools in and around Edmonton that can provide high quality training that we require. The nice thing about training in Alberta is the numerous ambulance services available for on car training that are close to major centres.


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## Donut

As far as I know there is one other PCP program in BC, very new, and I also believe the jury's still out on their product.  I'd be very surprised if they'd even had anyone through licensing as yet.


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## bdcasey916

I just came back from BC in July and this is confirmed information.  CFMGHQ has made licencing a *requirement* as part of the QL3 trade progression.  Not only has JIBC made the course a few more weeks longer, but CFMSS has added 5 more days to allow for licencing as well as paying for the fees of $450 as Health Service in BC have made it mandatory as of July 1 to have a fee for licencing.  I spoke to someone on the selection committee for the new college when I returned in July (no names, no pack drill) and he did tell me there is a new college as of January 2008 when the contract with JIBC ends, but would not tell me which college it was.  Rumors that I have heard at the school say that it will be Niagara College, due to the what the Medical Group wanted in the contract.  If I hear anything, I will make as know as I can.


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## Cdnrednk

Thank you for that post, that corresponds with what I heard as well, and it will affect me since I don't start the 2nd half untill the new year. My clinical part starts in about a week so I'm pumped!


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## herseyjh

I have also noticed the the QL3/PCP students have switched over to a civilian style EMS uniform.  From the few preceptors that I have talked to they say that this has helped with patients being more receptive to them as well as reduced negative patient interactions.


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## bdcasey916

The black uniforms that they are wearing now have always been in the system.  Originally they were issued after you were QL3 qualified for your MCSP.  But there was something about going to the east end of Vancouver with drugged out people and you showing up in combats.  There were also advantages to it as well, when you were dealing with psych issues, they were more receptive to you than the cops or BC Paramedics.  But yes, they have been issuing them now while the students are on their Clinical phase in Borden


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## Armymedic

bdcasey916 said:
			
		

> The black uniforms that they are wearing now have always been in the system.



Maybe always while you have been in. But they have only been issued for on-car tng in the last 3-4 yrs. Before that we were lucky to get a skunk jacket to wear over our work dress.


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## bisonmedic

Nothing like the feeling of being the bigger target while on car, wish I had the jumpsuit instead of cadpat, we could have blended in better with th BC amb crews :nana: :evil:


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## medaid

does anyone have a picture of what these said black uniforms looked like?


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## medicineman

IIRC, the guys in Gagetown used jumpsuits - I'm told now that the uniforms are more like the MP Patrol Dress with Scotchbright in appropriate places.

MM


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## old medic

They've only been available since the spring as far as I know. There was a reminder in the 
May MCSP communique. 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/hs_staff_sites/MCSP/engraph/monthly_communique_May07_e.asp



> Reminders:
> 
> The Med Tech (Reg F) shall go ahead and order their initial On-car uniform scale of issue through their supply section. The Med Tech On-car uniform Group Order is now available on the HS Policy and Guidance Documents site; you can access this document on the MCSP website under "Directives";


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## medaid

I like the patches personally, however, I think the maroon coloured sweater and jackets are hideous. We should just wear the regular lime/yellow coloured jackets that most EMS has, and have Medical Technician or Technicien Medical on the back, and the patches on the arms. But that's just me. Honestly though... wow... hideous...


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## bisonmedic

The color of the uniform is area dependent, the medics in Petawawa used the dark blue jumpsuit for the on car training. The uniforms are good, it's the three dollar, yellow , bargain special raincoat that looked horrid. They try to match the uniform to where you would be working.


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## medaid

Ah seen. Thanks for the clarification BM.


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## The_Falcon

bdcasey916 said:
			
		

> I just came back from BC in July and this is confirmed information.  CFMGHQ has made licencing a *requirement* as part of the QL3 trade progression.  Not only has JIBC made the course a few more weeks longer, but CFMSS has added 5 more days to allow for licencing as well as paying for the fees of $450 as Health Service in BC have made it mandatory as of July 1 to have a fee for licencing.  I spoke to someone on the selection committee for the new college when I returned in July (no names, no pack drill) and he did tell me there is a new college as of January 2008 when the contract with JIBC ends, but would not tell me which college it was.  Rumors that I have heard at the school say that it will be Niagara College, due to the what the Medical Group wanted in the contract.  If I hear anything, I will make as know as I can.



Any official confirmation about this?


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## Armymedic

I am not sure about the licensing component, but the new QL 3 starting this year will be a couple months longer as per the quoted post.

Anyways, Pea will be a good reference soon for all things QL 3 Med Tech, as I have heard she is starting her course very soon.


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## medicineman

I can say that a friend of mine on a 3's not long ago had 5 days tacked onto the end of her JIBC phase for licensing - and it wasn't at their request.

MM


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## Pea

I just started my Med Tech QL3 yesterday, but I can answer a few of the questions posted in the thread.

As for the contract being awarded for the civilian paramedic training, it's been done now. We met with the Commandant of CFMSS today, and she advised us that our course is "making history" in the Med Tech world. We'll be the first 'Med tech's-in-training' to be taking the newly extended* 6 month * course at the Justice Institute in BC. After that is finished, we too will be staying the extra 4-5 days to be licensed. Once that is finished we'll head back to CFMSS in Borden for our two week field portion of the course, and then finally graduate as newbie Med Techs.   The staff seem to have very high expectations for this extended course at the JI, and seem pretty excited about it. So I guess I'll just have to see how it all goes. I just have to work hard and get through these first 3 months of clinical first!

We were fitted for our on-car uniforms yesterday, and they're on order now we've been told. They were all black in color(pants, shirt and jacket), but the same maroon colored patch that was shown in the pictures earlier in this thread. I'll attach some pictures from my logistik unicorp page.(there are short and long sleeve shirts, as well as a jacket and pants)

















Hope that helps. Feel free to ask any more questions you have, and I'll try my best to answer them as I progress through this new adventure.


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## Pea

medicineman said:
			
		

> IIRC, the guys in Gagetown used jumpsuits - I'm told now that the uniforms are more like the MP Patrol Dress with Scotchbright in appropriate places.
> 
> MM



Funny enough, we did try on the MP uniform in the QM when we were sized. So they must be pretty much the same by the looks of it.


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## medaid

Pea, let me know when you're in town and we'll go for a few brews  and I'll make fun of your weirdo looking on car uniforms


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## PMedMoe

Pea, are you saying the QL3 course is now:

3 months clinical;
6 months (+ 4-5 days) PCP; and
2 weeks field portion?

All I can say is, if so, holy crap!    I thought my 3's were long!!  IIRC, my course ran 01 Jun 95 to early Feb 96.


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## Pea

Yup, that would be the breakdown for my QL3. It's going to be a long haul, but I suppose that means I will learn a ton of neat things!


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## Armymedic

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> All I can say is, if so, holy crap!    I thought my 3's were long!!  IIRC, my course ran 01 Jun 95 to early Feb 96.



Moe, Thier 3's may be long...But ours were much better.  ;D

Pea, I meet with the career manager tomorrow. I expect he'll confirm I am loaded onto the 6B for Aug. See you at school.


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## Cansky

Good luck Pea.  With this excellent base knowledge you'll be good to go for the PA crse in the distant future.  Learn the basic well now to help with the future courses. STTM good luck hope you get the course.  Hard as hell but man I've learned so much.  Only 6 months to go until phase 2


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## medicineman

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> All I can say is, if so, holy crap!    I thought my 3's were long!!  IIRC, my course ran 01 Jun 95 to early Feb 96.



Jeez - the rate things are going, what with the 2 year 6B, the long 3's and God only knows how long the 5's will be, the people are going to spend more time in school than on the job.

MM


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## PMedMoe

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Pea, I meet with the career manager tomorrow. I expect he'll confirm I am loaded onto the 6B for Aug. See you at school.



Good luck on course, SMMT!  Maybe I'll be there too, I've asked for a posting to the school.


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## DiverMedic

The 3s ARE longer now, mainly the JIBC portion.  Part of the reason for this is that they have extended the on-car portion.  Rather than the 10 days that we had for ours, theirs is supposed to be upwards of 2-3months.  Definitely good for pratical experience as I know on my on-car I had about 50 calls total and most of those ended up being sick/unwell.

As for the 5s, on our 3s grad, we were told by the CSM that they have put to tender to schools for an ALS course as part of the 5s.  No idea when/if this will actually happen or not, but the approval for tender has already come from Ottawa.


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## Pea

Figured I'd post an update, as this week coming marks the halfway point on my Clinical portion. Course is going very well so far. We're done all our written exams now, and have been focusing on "hands on" stuff.  We've learned a lot of interesting stuff so far, and each day we learn something new. I've taken blood from classmates the past few weeks, and am pretty proud of how well I've been doing with everything. I'm learning a ton, and overall, really love this course. My course mates are an awesome crew, and we work really well together both in the classroom, and in the shacks. 

We've received our on-car uniforms for our time in BC at the Justice Institute. They look pretty sharp, especially with the badges and our nametags. I'm looking forward to putting them to use in the future.

We were given some more "new" information this past week, about the 6 months we'll be spending at the Justice Institute, out in BC. We're going to be staying in a hotel in Abbotsford. It sounds like they've been working very hard to get these new accommodations set up for us, and have requested some changes/additions be made to help us be more comfortable and have adequate resources for studying and working on our skills. With this new info, we're all really starting to look forward to getting out to BC.

All in all, course is going very well, and I'm learning a lot of great skills. We seem to have an excellent crew of staff who really know their stuff, and work very hard to pass on their skills and experience to us.


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## Cdnrednk

I'm now at JIBC in chilliwack doing my practical... It's a challenge but a good time!
     I've had 2 shifts in ERs and due to some scheduling issues I've had 4 ambulance shifts... I've had mixed shifts, some are slow, some are fast, sometimes all you do are patient transfers it seems or deal with the elderly. But, every once in a while you get a good trauma call and you realize why you are doing this, thats what I enjoy the most it seems is the fast paced rush and excitement.
     The next course that is coming here in May is staying at the Ramada just outside of Abbottsford, looks good, you'll get a good restaurant to eat at, 2 people to a room instead of 6, internet access in the rooms (instead of having to come to the school, sometimes I just want to study in my room alone) and best of all, there is a little theme park next to the hotel lol. The only draw back is the fact its 40 muinets from the school, so to come to the school and practice you will have to have a small group organized to get a van to come drive you. However, I have heard the school may keep some equipment at the Hotel for you guys to practice on instead of coming here.
     I'm looking forward to seeing you guys arrive as I miss seeing some of you from PRETC!


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## Pea

Well it's been a good 14 weeks, and tomorrow I'll be finished my clinical portion of my QL3's.   I've learned a ton, and have really enjoyed the course. I'm heading on leave for a few weeks now, before I head out to Beautiful BC for my 6 month PCP program. I'm excited and nervous to begin this next phase. However, I'm mostly really looking forward to gaining another set of skills, and getting out on-car to gain experience and put those new skills to the test. We're the first students  to be doing the new 6 month course at JIBC, so I'm sure we'll be "under the microscope" so to speak. We're all looking forward to coming back from leave and getting started on this next phase of training. It probably doesn't hurt that we're going to be living in a hotel either.


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## aesop081

Pte Pea said:
			
		

> It probably doesn't hurt that we're going to be living in a hotel either.



It doesnt hurt but it gets real old, real fast.


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## Pea

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> It doesnt hurt but it gets real old, real fast.



I can only imagine. But I suppose 6 months in a shack room with 5 room mates, or 6 months in a hotel with one room mate, both get old real fast. I'm hoping this will be a little better than the former. (which is the living conditions of those on the 3 month course currently)


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## aesop081

Pte Pea said:
			
		

> I can only imagine. But I suppose 6 months in a shack room with 5 room mates, or 6 months in a hotel with one room mate,



I know. I've done more than my share of both ( well, i've never had a room mate in a hotel). I'm just saying that its surprising how much living in a hotel long-term can suck.


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## ArmyGuy99

I remember being out in the "Wack" Last summer.  And sure the 17wk crse was crammed, we still had a lot of fun.  But I can't imagine not being able to just walk over to the school any old time and practice.  I think that really made a difference.  Being able to just gather 3 other ppl and head on over when the mood suited us.

As for the room-mate, either way after 6+ months with the same people it's going to get old.

Good luck to you guys out there and going there.  The staff are really great, you couldn't ask for better.  You WILL learn ALOT.  At sometimes it will seem like your head will explode if you try to cram anymore information into it.  But don't worry there is room and at some point,  when you are all confused and your victims, err I mean patients keep dying in the Sims.  A little light bulb will come on, and it will all click and Bill will stop killing your patients ( Maybe)   

Oh and to the guys out there or going there tell the instructors Matt from Crse 32 last year says HI and thanks for the laughs. 

P.S. Don't forget to go to the Jolly Miller and have a pint or 4 on the weekends.


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## Pea

We've been told that the hotel has set a separate room aside for us to use as a practice room, and that the school will be providing equipment to be stored in the room for us to use. That was one of the big concerns, that we would be too far away to go to the school to practice at night. Hopefully this will be a good solution.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I appreciate it! I'm looking forward to getting out there and diving into it all! I'll try to remember to pass your message along to the staff.


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## medicineman

Living in a hotel gets old in a hurry - been in several for the better part of the last 8 months.  At least there wasn't a roomie issue (except the month I spent with my brother in Floodpeg).

Have fun out there.

MM


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## k_mac

Thank you Pte P and Cdnrednk for your info on the particulars or your respective training phases. I'm currently sitting on PRETC, anxiously awaiting the start of my course in the early part of October !

I have a general understanding of what is covered in the Med Tech course, but I'm curious about the particulars of the Clinical phase. I understand that during the first part of the training, the students are, for instance, instructed in the administration of SQ injections, IV therapy and basic "nursing" type skills. Just out of curiosity, does the course curriculum cover alot of pathophysiology, pharmacology, that sort of thing? Or is that done during the JIBC phase of the training? 

I would certainly appreciate input in this area.

Thanks


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## ArmyGuy99

k_mac

Be prepared to do a lot of Anatomy and Physiology, and Pharmacology, and Patho during your clinical, unfortunately it won't be enough to prepare you for the Emergent phase in BC.  You will need to do some extra studying (on top of everything else).

Our staff were awesome and gave us Hours of extra studying on A&P and Patho.  At the time we were like woo la, major headache.  But when we got to BC the prep work really helped out.  And we were/are eternally thankful for the effort they put in.  

Also if you have the time until your course starts, I suggest starting to study now.  Go to chapters, and pick up a good A&P book and start memorizing.  It will help.

OH and don't forget the most important part.  Have FUN!!  

Besides where else can you poke your best friends with sharp things, and NOT get knocked out for it  ;D


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## kawigirl

Thank you all,
I am a total newbie and will be leaving for my BMQ, to start June 9th and then I think my SQ. But I have a feeling with the Medic course only happening two times a year, and providing I do well on my BMQ, that I will probably be starting in the October course too. I will be finish my BMQ in the middle of September. Oh, one other thing, is their anyone out there who is an Airforce Med Tech?? If yes how long ws your SQ?

Thanks so much....
Kawigirl ;D


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## k_mac

KG,

I think I can answer your inquiry. I graduated from basic 31 Jan and did my SQ from mid-Feb to mid-Mar. Since I did my SQ with post recruit medics of all 3 elements, my understanding is that all Med Techs have to do SQ. It is four weeks in duration and a lot of fun. Kind of like an extension of basic in my opinion. No big deal. I did mine in Gagetown, so I'm not sure what the SQ's in Shilo or Meaford are like (also 4 weeks long)

As for BMQ (assuming you are going to St-Jean), in general a good experience. Just do what they tell you and don't take the yelling and screaming personally, just part of the game. I found the staff to be well organized, efficient and professional. The field training towards the end of BMQ is awesome. 

I am currently posted to Borden on thier version of PAT (Personnel awaiting training) which is called PRETC (Post Recruit Education and Training Center). There are 2 medic courses starting in Oct and I will be on the earlier one, but I don't know if you would be starting on one of the October courses or not. If not, you could quite possibly be waiting a while. But not to worry, the staff at PRETC are very good at trying to get the recruits some OJT (On the Job Training) or EWAT(Employment While Awaiting Training).

Good luck


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## Armymedic

Kawi,
Talk to Pte Pea, she's on her QL3 right now and is the most up to date source of info about all that stuff.

K_mac,
Whilst at the school, watch out for those evil Sgt PA students...   >


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## Pea

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Kawi,
> Talk to Pte Pea, she's on her QL3 right now and is the most up to date source of info about all that stuff.



Thanks SMMM.  

If either of you have any questions about the first half of the Med Tech 3's, I'll be happy to answer. (either here, or via PM) I start the paramedic portion in just over 2 weeks, so I can do my best to keep you up to date on the extended 6 month program as well, if you wish.

Kawi, Good luck with your BMQ & SQ, and then your trades training. Hopefully you won't have to wait too long to get on your QL3's. You may luck out and get on the October course, but don't have your heart too set on it, as I know there are a fair amount of people waiting for that course in PRETC currently.

K_Mac, glad to hear PRETC is working hard to get you guys OJT/EWAT, that is great to hear. A lot of people on my 3's waited 6-12 months to get on this course and sadly most didn't get that pleasure. I'm happy to hear that is changing!


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## kawigirl

Thanks Pte. Pea,
I am hoping for the October course, but you never know. Any suggestions on what to study while I am waiting to get on the course after I finish my BMQ an SQ? I am so exacted about doing my 3's as for my BMQ and SQ that's another story. (lol!) Keep us updated for at least one more month, then I leave to St.Jean.

Thanks, Kawigirl


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## PMedMoe

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> K_mac,
> Whilst at the school, watch out for those evil Sgt PA students...   >



Particularly, the ones from this forum.....


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## medicineman

We are indeed evil, as in EEEEVIILLLLLLLL, like the froooits of the Deviiiiilllllllllllll...

We're also pretty crabby at this time, as are the class behind us in house at the moment.

MM


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## Pea

Said PA students also like to "pick on" the newbie QL3 students in house... All in good fun of course!  ;D

Have had some awesome laughs in the joint student canteen!


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## medicineman

Well of course they/we do - it's our way of welcoming you aboard and to suss out who might be working for us or friends of ours.  All in good fun (well sometimes).

MM


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## kawigirl

Hi Guys,
Just curious if anyone has heard of people missing or putting their SQ on hold if the next QL3 course is a week or two after BMQ and the next QL 3 course isn't until the new year?? Anyone have any thoughts on what they might do????

Thanks, Kawigirl   :cdnsalute:


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## George Wallace

Heard no such rumours.  As far as I know, no one can progress on a Career Crse without completing BMQ and SQ.  Next we'll hear rumours of people being loaded on Career Crses without passing their Medicals at CFRCs.


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## bdcasey916

I know when I did my CC last year, about half my class did not their SQ.  I know that a few of them are actually doing pre-deployment training as we speak that still did not get their SQ.  Most of the new QL3 students that started yesterday were talking about that in the smoke pit this morning, when they would get their SQ fit into their training.  I am only quoting a rumor here, but I hear through the grapevine that SQ is being taken out of the training system, and the field training portion of BMQ was to be lengthened to include the basics of what SQ taught.  Remember, I said this is only a rumor that I heard through the grapevine.


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## kawigirl

Hey BD,
Thats just what I have heard threw the grapevine too!! I was just hoping for my QL3 course for October instead of waiting on PAT platoon until the new year.  I let you know what happens as I sart my BMQ in June.

Thanks, 
Kawigirl


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## Pea

bdcasey916 said:
			
		

> I know when I did my CC last year, about half my class did not their SQ.  I know that a few of them are actually doing pre-deployment training as we speak that still did not get their SQ.  Most of the new QL3 students that started yesterday were talking about that in the smoke pit this morning, when they would get their SQ fit into their training.  I am only quoting a rumor here, but I hear through the grapevine that SQ is being taken out of the training system, and the field training portion of BMQ was to be lengthened to include the basics of what SQ taught.  Remember, I said this is only a rumor that I heard through the grapevine.





			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Heard no such rumours.  As far as I know, no one can progress on a Career Crse without completing BMQ and SQ.  Next we'll hear rumours of people being loaded on Career Crses without passing their Medicals at CFRCs.



BMQ's field portion was already lengthened, as Basic is 13 weeks now. (14 including week zero) That lengthening knocked SQ down to 4 weeks (from 10). 

SQ is not a hard prerequisite for Med Tech's to do their QL3 trades training. It is a course we are "supposed" to have. However, a good chunk of my  QL3 course does not have SQ, as there wasn't time to do it before being loaded on our QL3's. We've been told once we're posted it's up to our units to see that we get it. That being said, I too personally know of a few medic's who have been doing their pre-deployment training and do not have SQ.


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## ArmyGuy99

SQ is something us Med Techs should have, it's just not on the Must have list.  ( Although it should be).  I don't have mine and I know I missed out big time on some good training and weapons practice. But "ces la vie" as we say.


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## kawigirl

Thanks for the information everyone,
I guess I will just wait and see. I don't mind doing the SQ, but I would rather get on with my training for my career then do my SQ. Please remember this is my opinion on the SQ course.

Thanks again, 
Kawigirl


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## medaid

Do your SQ course and get to know what the field environment is like and get the basic basic infantry skills down with your small arms. Do it, learn it, then do your career courses. It only makes sense since your first posting would most likely be a Fd Amb with an attach posting to a field unit somewhere. Do the basic stuff, get it out of the way.


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## kawigirl

Thanks Guys,
I was also wondering since I am so new to the CF and no question is a dumb question (right!), is the black uniform an everyday wear or just for doing "ride alongs". On base here I have seen both the CADPAT and the black uniform....

Thanks, 
Kawigirl


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## George Wallace

>

Black uniform?  If it is Black Coverals and no headdress, it is probably a "prisoner".   ;D


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## Pea

kawigirl said:
			
		

> I was also wondering since I am so new to the CF and no question is a dumb question (right!), is the black uniform an everyday wear or just for doing "ride alongs". On base here I have seen both the CADPAT and the black uniform....



I believe the uniform you are talking about, is the civilian on-car uniform. You'll wear it out in BC while working on-car during the OJT portion of the paramedic course. It's purpose is to help you blend in while you're working with other civilian paramedic professionals. (vice wearing the Cadpat)


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## bdcasey916

No, that Civilian On-Car uniform is also worn after JIBC when you are doing your yearly MCSP at your home unit.  No matter where you are in the country, emerg care is part of your MCSP package and you will be going on car, hence the creation of the on-car uniform


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## Pea

bdcasey916 said:
			
		

> No, that Civilian On-Car uniform is also worn after JIBC when you are doing your yearly MCSP at your home unit.  No matter where you are in the country, emerg care is part of your MCSP package and you will be going on car, hence the creation of the on-car uniform



I realize that, I was just trying to make clear when you *start * wearing the on-car uniform, which will be at JIBC while working on-car.


----------



## bdcasey916

My apologizies, I'm multitasking and didn't read it carefully enough


----------



## ArmyGuy99

Our on car uniforms are black with reflective tape.  Similar to what most paramedics wear here in Ontario.  They are very professional looking, and received great reviews from our preceptors and other paramedics in BC.  We were the first class of JI Students to wear them.  Unfortunately you are not issued a belt to wear.  I would recommend purchasing a tactical duty belt, and fitting it out, with a mag lite holder, a glove holder ( must hold at least 2 latex/non-latex gloves), and a scissor pouch (I forget what they are actually called but it holds 1 scissor, 2 Hemostats, and some have a mag lite holder.) The duty belt is a back saver, and most paramedics in BC that I met wear them.  Easy to take off when you are in the station relaxing.  

Don't know how it'll play out wearing the belt when at a Unit though (Not an issue at mine). You'd have to check once getting posted, or ask if you know someone who's at one of the Field Ambs you'd be going to.


----------



## Armymedic

MedTech32 said:
			
		

> Don't know how it'll play out wearing the belt when at a Unit though (Not an issue at mine). You'd have to check once getting posted, or ask if you know someone who's at one of the Field Ambs you'd be going to.



Great idea while working on-car.

Wear it around unit lines afterward, and be prepared to be called a loser.


----------



## PMedMoe

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Great idea while working on-car.
> 
> Wear it around unit lines afterward, and be prepared to be called a loser.



Yep, it'll look great when you're changing the oil on an MLVW.


----------



## ArmyGuy99

;D Not exactly what I meant when I posted.  But after reading it this morning I can see why you probably think I'm a moronic gear hog.  

What I meant was that there was nobody in BC to tell us "No, do not wear that, it isn't issued".  As opposed to on base at a field unit (Where I'm sure there are lots of people to tell a no hook private).


----------



## Armymedic

MedTech32 said:
			
		

> What I meant was that there was nobody in BC to tell us "No, do not wear that, it isn't issued".  As opposed to on base at a field unit (Where I'm sure there are lots of people to tell a no hook private).



No, they won't tell you you can't wear it because it is not issued....They will call you a loser because it is pretty much useless wearing it around your lines. 

And you'll look like an idiot.


----------



## old medic

I've been on the civy side for 10 years now, and I don't even wear the tactical belt 99% of the time. 
No real need for it. Throw a pen and some gloves in your pocket. Scissors in the leg pocket maybe, 
but there are sets of scissors in the bags and in the rig. 

If you have a two piece tactical belt with the inner velcro belt, that inner is great with your combat pants.
Adjustable, no buckle and great when going through an airport.


----------



## bdcasey916

I agree with you there old medic, but with the Military On-Car Uniforms, they are the exact same as the OPD's for the Military Police, they just have the reflective tape on them, so unfortunately the leg pockets are just cargo pockets and don't have the pre-formed slot to put scissors in.  I have a funny feeling someone would go to the ground to aid a patient and well they will need some trauma aid because they stabbed themselves in the leg with a pair of utility scissors


----------



## PMedMoe

You can always get a small holder that attaches to your combat belt for scissors, penlights, etc.  I know the cooks used to like them for holding their various paring knives.


----------



## ArmyGuy99

SMMT

I agree you'd look like an idiot.  I gotta stop posting before my morning coffee.  my bad, Nuff said

bdcasey916:

I agree with you, I could see some poor smuck with the scissors in his cargo pocket kneeling/bending whatever and jabbin themselves in the leg, and leaving a nice bruise.  For our on car session just about everyone found a creative way to carry them on the belt.

But in the end it's all about personal preference.


----------



## bdcasey916

Ya, I know at the canex they have a little pouch to put the shears in, but it looks silly.  I've seen paramedics with a pouch that fits in the small of your back that has the shears sideways and you can also put a few pairs of gloves in them


----------



## medicineman

exgunner916 said:
			
		

> I agree with you there old medic, but with the Military On-Car Uniforms, they are the exact same as the OPD's for the Military Police, they just have the reflective tape on them, so unfortunately the leg pockets are just cargo pockets and don't have the pre-formed slot to put scissors in.  I have a funny feeling someone would go to the ground to aid a patient and well they will need some trauma aid because they stabbed themselves in the leg with a pair of utility scissors



If you're using your penny shears, chances of you stabbing yourself with them are pretty slim - something about the blunt ends to them.  Surgical scissors, as some people (like me) carry as well on the other hand...well, I have a holster for my scissors, knife and flashlight.  Also have spares in my bag.

MM


----------



## bdcasey916

MM I agree with you on the blunt end of the scissors, but you never know with some troops you see today.   ;D  Speaking of those holsters, do you know where I can get one around the Borden area, or somewhere close?


----------



## medicineman

Mine's an Uncle Mike's I got in Kingston many years ago.  However, I think there is an EMS kitshop as part of the bookstore at Georgian College, since they have a paramedic program - that would be a good place to start. 

Cheers.

MM


----------



## kawigirl

Hey Guys,
Does anyone know how to tell what "college" that you would be going to for your QL3?? Right now I live in B.C., but my family is getting posted to Ottawa in July. (on my husband's trade). Or is it just pick of the draw??  Does the larger gerber holder fit the scissors?? Just an idea if it would work? 

Cheers, Kawigirl


----------



## Armymedic

College?

You do your QL 3 at the CFMS School in Borden, PCP near Chilliwack, BC.


----------



## kawigirl

HI SSMT,
Is this for everybody?? I have been told to many things, and where you go when your done you BMQ..Is there people going to University that the military is paying them to do this, then they are doing the BMQ?? Anybody heard this?

Hmmm, Little rumors I guess!!

Kawigirl


----------



## medaid

kawigirl said:
			
		

> HI SSMT,
> Is this for everybody?? I have been told to many things, and where you go when your done you BMQ..Is there people going to University that the military is paying them to do this, then they are doing the BMQ?? Anybody heard this?
> 
> Hmmm, Little rumors I guess!!
> 
> Kawigirl



No. JIBC for PCP. Anyone who is going to University and is in the CF is either under CEOTP, ROTP or RESO or what ever program. No MedTechs are being sent to University. 

JIBC will be where you'll be doing your PCP portion. BMQ first for EVERYONE as that is your BASIC Military Qualification. SQ or PCP depends on availability. As I've said before do your SQ first so you can work on your med skills continuously afterwards.


----------



## bdcasey916

When you are done your BMQ, you will come to CFB Borden and stay in PRETC until there is an opening at CFMSS for your course.  When you get on course, you will spend 14 weeks doing your clinical care (CC) phase.  When you are done that, you will go to JIBC at Chilliwack, BC for 6 months to do your emergency care (EC) phase.  When you are done that you will return to CFMSS at Borden to do your field phase which last's around 3 weeks, but counting in your IRPP and posting briefs, you will be looking at close to a year before you are done your QL3's.  That is after you are done BMQ


----------



## ArmyGuy99

It was exactly one year from when I left for BMQ to when I graduated from Phase 3 of my QL3, and that's with only a 4 wk wait from BMQ to QL3 (Thank God), and with the old 16 wk EC @ JIBC.  Total time not living with Domestic Niner was 14 months ( Tack on 2 months Imposed Restrictions while I house hunted).  I don't regret doing it, but it sure wasn't easy.  I also don't remember being told that I was going to be away that long.  Ces la vie.


----------



## kawigirl

Thanks Guys,

Wow, I wasn't expecting it to be that long, but you do what you have to do. Thanks for the break down of everything, that helps. Now I am listening MedTech but do I have the choice to do my SQ before my QL3 if the offer/tell me that I will be doing my QL3 first?? I totally agree with you as I have heard that there is alot of studing in the QL3's. 

Have a great night,
Kawigirl


----------



## bdcasey916

Basically the best thing to do because none of us work at PRETC is wait until you get there to see what is going on.  I wouldn't stress about which is going to happen first, its all about training priorities, so you just gotta go with the flow and see how it happens.


----------



## EDS334

kawigirl said:
			
		

> Thanks Guys,
> 
> Wow, I wasn't expecting it to be that long, but you do what you have to do. Thanks for the break down of everything, that helps. Now I am listening MedTech *but do I have the choice to do my SQ before my QL3 if the offer/tell me that I will be doing my QL3 first??* I totally agree with you as I have heard that there is alot of studing in the QL3's.
> 
> Have a great night,
> Kawigirl



Once you sign the dotted line, the CF makes your choices for you (in terms of course dates, etc.)  So...  No.  You can't choose which course you'll be doing first - although I'm sure you could write hundreds of memos requesting this that and the next thing.  I'm sitting here in Borden, fresh off my BMQ sitting on PRETC.  In less than a week I bugger off to SQ along with some that I arrived with - who are Navy - so you can expect to be loaded onto an SQ regardless of which element you pick.  It'll be good fun I'm sure.  Plenty of exercise if nothing else...   ;D

Last time I checked, there were two courses beginning in October; one early in the month, one late.  I'm on the later, but I remember only seeing a handful of names on both lists.  Nothing is even close to definitive here, but - and I don't mean to be discouraging - you'd probably be lucky to get on course as early as Oct.  The next one after that is in Feb. or so they tell me (like they told my one buddy who's scheduled for that course.)  

Good luck in BMQ!  It's fun, if you make it fun.  Just take all the advice your staff gives you, and listen to them.  Once you get to Borden, you'll have plenty of time to look into course dates.  Until your feet are on the ground though, all dates are tentative imho.


----------



## MedCorps

EDS334 said:
			
		

> Last time I checked, there were two courses beginning in October; one early in the month, one late.  I'm on the later, but I remember only seeing a handful of names on both lists.  Nothing is even close to definitive here, but - and I don't mean to be discouraging - you'd probably be lucky to get on course as early as Oct.  The next one after that is in Feb. or so they tell me (like they told my one buddy who's scheduled for that course.)



You are correct... well sort of.... 

QL 3 - 0035 - 17 Sept 2008
QL 3 - 0036 - 06 Oct  2008
QL 3 - 0037 - 23 Oct  2008
QL 3 - 0038 - 07 Jan  2009 
QL 3 - 0039 - 02 Feb  2009
QL 3 - 0040 - 23 Feb  2009 

I cannot remember which are in English and which are in French.  Of course, they are subject to change without notice as the wind changes direction. 

I hope that is of some help. 

MC


----------



## BullDog

Just to muddy the waters even more ...

The CFMSS website gives the following schedule for QL3 (Med Tech) ... "Last Updated: 29 Feb 08"
       
Med Tech QL3 
(Emergent - 114589, Clinical - 114588, Field - 114590) 

Franco     0039     17-Sep-08      Jul/Aug 09 
Anglo       0040     06-Oct-08      Aug 09 
Anglo       0041     23-Oct-08      Sep 09 
Franco     0042     07-Jan-09      Nov/Dec 09 
Anglo       0043     02-Feb-09     Dec 09/Jan 2010 
Anglo       0044     23-Feb-09     Jan 2010 

There was also a course that started 5 May 08 (0038 - Anglo).

Hope this didn't confuse the issue too much, or that I didn't overstep my bounds (not a Med Tech, but a QL3 "widow" :crybaby: who's anxiously waiting for his spouse to finish up at JIBC) ... actually the above-noted info is very similar to that which MedCorps provided, just different course numbers and I added the end dates.


----------



## MedCorps

BullDog said:
			
		

> The CFMSS website gives the following schedule for QL3 (Med Tech) ... "Last Updated: 29 Feb 08"
> 
> There was also a course that started 5 May 08 (0038 - Anglo).



Hmmm... just for the record my list was last updated 25 May 08. 

It was 0034 which started 5 May 2008.  It is a QL5A.  QL3 0038 starts 07 Jan 2009. 

The website needs to be updated I suspect. 

MC


----------



## BullDog

Oops ... that's what happens when you stick your nose somewhere it doesn't belong ... 

Again, I apologize if I (and my outdated information) caused any confusion - should have known better about trusting information posted on the Internet.  :-[


----------



## EDS334

Ahh course dates in writing.  It's like a placebo for the keeners.  _"OH! Finally a date on my calender!"_  jk

Until your boots are in the classroom, and you've heard your name in roll call, it's all tentative.   ;D  That being said, my name wasn't called off on the first day of SQ, but they kept me on and then graduated me anyways.  

The course dates listed here are much more detailed than I had seen, and look to be still accurate.  The only trouble now is trying to find out any information on the "updated" curriculum, and how long each portion of trg will last (ie. how long we're in Borden, Chilliwack, etc).  Anyone have answers?


----------



## ArmyGuy99

Last I herd the durations are:

Phase 1 Clinical @ CFMSS in Borden 16 wks

Phase 2 Emergent Care @ JIBC Chilliwack, BC, 6 Months (Give or take a week)

Phase 3 Field/Posting @ CFMSS Borden it was 4 wks for us.  3 weeks Admin, 1 week training ( with 3 days in the field)

Good Luck


----------



## EDS334

Thanks.  That was what I had been assuming it was staying at, but a few people and their unidentifiable sources claimed there was mass change on the way.  Glad I just popped on here.  

Now, time to wait out.  _Kit check.  All issued kit, check.  Meal card, check.  Sanity...errr...kcehc?_   ;D


----------



## MedCorps

The next set of QL 3's are currently loaded for the fol:

Clinical Phase - 65 training days
Emergent Phase - 84 training days
IRPP / Leave / Admin - (varies between 4 and 10 training days)
Field Phase - 8 training Days
End Course Admin / Grad Parade - 2 training days 

Hope that is of some help. 

MC


----------



## Pea

MedCorps said:
			
		

> The next set of QL 3's are currently loaded for the fol:
> 
> Emergent Phase - 84 training days



Is the PCP portion that was just extended, being shortened for the next course? I'm on the current course (1st extended to 6 months) out in Chilliwack at the Justice Institute, and our program is 125 training days, plus 5 days for licensing.


----------



## MedCorps

You are right... I was looking at an old copy... 

It is 125 training days + 5 for licensing.

All other lengths are correct.  

Sorry for any confusion that might have caused anyone. 

Cheers, 

MC


----------



## EDS334

Many thanks again!  Now I just have to hope I stay loaded on the Oct 23 course.  ;D


----------



## The_Falcon

Quick question, what about PT on the course.  How often did you do it, what facilities were available etc.


----------



## MedCorps

Currently, while in the clinical phase in Borden PT is 3 times a week and is mostly done by the PSP staff at the gym at the end of the day. Activities while at the gym vary based on who is the PSP staff of the day.  This PT regime has had mixed reviews by the students, and it is quite probable this regime will all be changing in the near future (as soon as October).

While at the JIBC or Ahunstic Collage PT is mostly on your own, unless the JIBC staff want to go on a mountain walk, or the NCO is feeling particularly motivated that day.  

When back at in Borden for the field phase of training the rate and intensity of PT picks up quite a bit, with many student regretting the fact that they did not keep in shape while living at a hotel while away at the civilian college.  PT on the field phase of training includes rucksack marches, runs, and circuit training.  The Field Operations Section has a British Officer as the OIC.  This person normally is a "big fan" of PT. 

I hope that helps. 

MC


----------



## ArmyGuy99

I agree with MedCorps, while on the clinical phase PT with the PSP was a joke, and I'm glad to here that it may be changing.  While on our Field phase though, it was a good go.  Ruck Marches, and group morning runs, Officers included.  Great stuff.  Hopefully they'll be able to get those onto the clinical phase.

While we were at the JI PT was on our own time.  Mostly we played soccer a few times a week with the course that was ahead of us, and most of us ran every afternoon, there's a nice 5 km circuit around the base and down by the river and back.  

As for facilities, CFB Borden has a fully equipped recreation centre, and the JI has a fairly decent gym, and an awesome trail to run along side the river.  Not sure about Ahunstic though.


----------



## Medic_6256

Hi folks,

First post on here, and I'll try not to make an a$$ of myself.  Not even sure if this is the right thread for this, but it seems to go along.

I am in the recruitment phase (medical in the morning) to come in as a Med Tech.  I am a licensed PCP Supervisor working for a provincial government, and a graduate of a CMA approved PCP course.  I've spoken to a few people - each giving me different ideas as to what I'll have to take as far as training, where I'll start out as far as rank/pay, what training I might be able to bypass if any, etc.

Anyone on here have some personal experience they could share, instead of the runours I've been hearing?

Thanks!


----------



## ArmyGuy99

Medic_6256,

It will all depend on what comes of your Prior Learning Assesment (PLAR).  That will decided what parts of the QL3 Crse you get to miss.  It will also go along with deciding what pay/rank you will get when you get in. 

From my experience with a few buddies of mine, you'll probably get to skip JIBC and the Paramedic training and that is about all.  As per rank/pay, in all likelyhood you will start at the bottom with the rest of us.  You might get a cash incentive for being "Semi-Skilled", but I'd have to look it up.  You're best bet is to go into your local Recruiting Centre and speak not only with a Military Carrer Counselor but also with the Med Staff if they are not too busy.

Cheers and Good Luck


----------



## MedCorps

I agree with MedTech32... 

The process for "skilled" applicants holding PCP certification, without prior military experience seems to be: 

Enrolled as Private. 
Qualification Level 3 (Apprentice) trade qualification course phase I (clinical) and III (field).

If your PLA is successful, and based on the limited amount of information you have provided I suspect it will be, you will be exempt from Phase II which is the 125+5 days at the JIBC or Ahunstic College. 

Then it is posted off to your first posting with the rest of the folks...  It may seem like we are not valuing your prior experience, but it really does make sense at the end of the day.  Should they give you a semi-skilled bonus, or move you up on the pay grid for Privates?  That is a question far above my pay-grade.  

Now... I have nothing to do with the official PLA process, or recruiting, so I would ask the nice folks at the Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre.  They will help get things sorted out for you.  Just passing along my observations.  

Good luck, and I hope to see you badged someday.  

Cheers, 

MC


----------



## Medic_6256

Thanks for the replies, folks.  I'm not adverse to retaking the book stuff if required, but I really don't see the point if it's going to be the same thing I already took (and paid for).  One can NEVER have enough clinic and field practice though, and I really look forward to that if that's the way the guys upstairs want me to do it.  I figure I'm getting paid anyway, and if they want me on as a third for a while, I'm all for it  

Incidentally, I got past the interview today, and I need to get some paperwork done by my family Doc.  Things are looking good.  After that, I guess I'm going to sit back with a big bowl of  op: and wait.


----------



## The_Falcon

Since people are discussing possibilities of recruitment allowances, this seems pertinent



> CANFORGEN 146/08 CMP 059/08 061550Z AUG 08
> RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCES FOR UNDERSTRENGTH MILITARY OCCUPATIONS
> UNCLASSIFIED
> 
> 
> REFS: A. CANFORGEN 164/06 CMP 079 031116Z NOV 06
> B. CBI 205.525
> C. TB DECISION NO 832770, 22 JUN 06
> D. CDS LETTER DATED 28 JUL 08
> 
> 
> 
> THIS CANFORGEN SUPERCEDES REF A AND CONTAINS THE REVISED LIST OF OCCUPATIONS FOR WHICH RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCES MAY BE PROVIDED TO ELIGIBLE APPLICANTS ENTERING THE REGULAR FORCE.
> 
> 
> THE ALLOWANCES AND CONDITIONS OF ENTITLEMENT ARE AS SET OUT IN REF B, WHICH IS AMENDED PURSUANT TO REF C
> 
> 
> THE CURRENT UNDERSTRENGTH MILITARY OCCUPATION LIST (REF D), EFFECTIVE 1 AUGUST 08, INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING OCCUPATIONS:
> 
> 
> NE TECH (A) 00116
> 
> 
> NE TECH (C) 00117
> 
> 
> NE TECH (T) 00118
> 
> 
> SIG OP 00329
> 
> 
> MRAD TECH 00153
> 
> 
> BE TECH 00155
> 
> 
> INT OP 00099
> 
> 
> SONAR OP 00324
> 
> 
> VEH TECH 00129
> 
> 
> MLAB 00152
> 
> 
> LCIS TECH 00110
> 
> 
> AC OP 00337
> 
> 
> ATIS TECH 00109
> 
> 
> AVN TECH 00135
> 
> 
> EGS TECH 00303
> 
> 
> NAV COMM 00299
> 
> 
> NES OP 00115
> 
> 
> NW TECH 00017
> 
> 
> DENT TECH 00335
> 
> 
> *MED TECH 00334 *
> 
> MED 00196
> 
> 
> PHARM 00194
> 
> 
> NOTE THAT MERE POSSESSION OF A CERTAIN TRADE OR ACADEMIC QUALIFICATIONS DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT AN APPLICANT MEETS CF REQUIREMENTS. EACH APPLICANT FILE WILL BE REVIEWED TO DETERMINE CURRENCY OF THE PERTINENT SKILLS OR ACADEMIC QUALIFICATIONS AND COMPETENCY.
> 
> 
> THE CANADIAN FORCES LEADERSHIP AND RECRUIT SCHOOL (CFLRS) WILL BE THE PRINCIPAL PAYMENT AUTHORITY FOR NCM ALLOWANCES. HOWEVER, A MEMBER S INITIAL GAINING UNIT WILL BE THE PAYMENT AUTHORITY FOR THOSE WHO BYPASS CFLRS. DETAILED ADMIN AND FINANCIAL PROCEDURES ARE CONTAINED IN CCPS ADVISORIES.
> 
> 
> OPI IS LCOL DJ NICHOLSON, DPPD, (613) 995-1996
> 
> 
> SIGNED MY MGEN SEMIANIW, CMP



To check your eligibility and $ amounts for the allowance look up the CBI


----------



## The_Falcon

Quick question, While out in BC (for the anglos) are you on TD, or have some sort of allowance, since you are living in a hotel?


----------



## Armymedic

TD.


----------



## Pea

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Quick question, While out in BC (for the anglos) are you on TD, or have some sort of allowance, since you are living in a hotel?



Like Prairie Dog said, we are on TD while out in BC. We're in a hotel as of right now but the JI has purchased an old quarters building out at ASU Chilliwack, and are in the process of having that renovated, so all future courses can live back at the ASU. From what we've been told, the goal is to have all new courses starting in the new year, living in those renovated quarters.


----------



## EDS334

Well, I'm no longer on the October 23 course.  Seems I've been moved to February.  I was told it had something to do with a course cancellation, moving some candidates from that course onto the one I was scheduled for so I had to give way.  Fair enough.  But then I was also informed that some students who had did not pass/complete Phase 1, were getting a second stab at it - ahead of many of us who've been waiting around for months.  A certain saying comes to mind... something about chickens, eggs, counting...   ;D

I guess you can't be a true medic without having to wait a ridiculous amount of time on PRETC.  Oh well, tastings here I come!

Anyone else bumped around?


----------



## MedCorps

EDS334, 

Yeah... it is shit... but unfortunately part of the game.  Sadly, the School and barely keep up with the QL3 output it is maintaining and cannot just "add" more QL3 serials due to the lack of staff.  People who fail off phase I (and are retained in the Med Tech MOC vs. being sent elsewhere) often get second crack at things before someone who as not yet attempted QL3 phase I comes into the fold.   

In the mean while... try to stay positive, physically fit, off defaulters parade, and keep doing pre-QL3 medical reading until your time comes.  Just think, by the time you come to the School you will be well read.  

Cheers, 

MC


----------



## EDS334

MedCorps said:
			
		

> EDS334,
> 
> Yeah... it is crap... but unfortunately part of the game.  Sadly, the School and barely keep up with the QL3 output it is maintaining and cannot just "add" more QL3 serials due to the lack of staff.  People who fail off phase I (and are retained in the Med Tech MOC vs. being sent elsewhere) often get second crack at things before someone who as not yet attempted QL3 phase I comes into the fold.
> 
> In the mean while... try to stay positive, physically fit, off defaulters parade, and keep doing pre-QL3 medical reading until your time comes.  Just think, by the time you come to the School you will be well read.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> MC



Thanks MC!  While I wouldn't exactly call what's happening now, a legit second chance offering by CFMSS to those that didn't quite make the grade the first time, I can understand that there are quite a few pay grades between me and those that make those decisions.  I've got no qualms with people being given second chances before a COT comes into play, I would have just thought that the school puts them at the end of the waiting list (like everyone else), instead of bumping them onto the next available course.  All I can hope for is that those that are getting a second chance better make the most of it, and validate their instructors confidence in them.  Oh well, I've got a few friends on that course, and I'm happy for them.

That being said, it's that time of the night, time to crack open the books.  MC, are there any resources on the DIN that I should try and get a hold of?  I've got no direct access to it, and I don't really care to make a fuss unless I'm missing out on something.


----------



## George Wallace

EDS334 said:
			
		

> ...........  I've got no qualms with people being given second chances before a COT comes into play, I would have just thought that the school puts them at the end of the waiting list (like everyone else), instead of bumping them onto the next available course.



I don't understand your logic.  These people have been in longer than you.  They may have failed for reasons that were not academically related; ie. Medical Recourse, Compassionate, or a myriad of other reasons.  Next question:  How long should they wait?  Until after your course is done, or the next one, or the next one, or when?

Suppose you got on this next Crse and half way through one of your parents became ill and you had to go home for compassionate reasons.  You couldn't complete the Crse.  Should we have you get on the next Crse, or perhaps wait two or three years when we have enough "Recourses" to run a special Crse just for them?


----------



## EDS334

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I don't understand your logic.  These people have been in longer than you.  They may have failed for reasons that were not academically related; ie. Medical Recourse, Compassionate, or a myriad of other reasons.  Next question:  How long should they wait?  Until after your course is done, or the next one, or the next one, or when?
> 
> Suppose you got on this next Crse and half way through one of your parents became ill and you had to go home for compassionate reasons.  You couldn't complete the Crse.  Should we have you get on the next Crse, or perhaps wait two or three years when we have enough "Recourses" to run a special Crse just for them?



I retract my gripe, and insert a wet weather boot in my mouth to take it's place.

Longevity of service has its merits.  I know I don't have the technical terminology to go hand in hand with this conversation, so I'm wary not to step out of my lane (again and again), but seeing as this is a trade in need of pers, I would have imagined that any strikes against a candidate would have them placed back to the end of the pre requisites complete list (along with all those who've just come of their SQ, as I understand it that's the only pre-req for Med Techs).  If it was a medical recourse (ie. injury) then it gives them that much more time to reach their 100% (and shoot for higher even).  If it was compassionate, then it was their choice to interrupt their training, but giving into reason it could be said that they be given priority over the rest of us mugs.  That's where my whole "pay grades" comment came into play, and I wish I had elaborated just a little further to suggest that while my situation does suck, I understand the system, accept it, and am shockingly ok with it.

I am now humbly trying to tip toe off this thin ice.   ;D


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## Armymedic

don't apologize. If they fail, they should have to wait for the next avail posn where they can retake the course. There is NO good excuse to bump off potential competent medics who are sitting on their thumbs waiting to get into the school. Esp if the portion (and it most likely is) the JIBC portion. They can cancel some of the Sgts off those positions (what a waste,sendin a Sgt to do a Pte level course for a "ticket") so that QL3 can redo the course they need to do so they can get into a unit where we need them.

There is a better way. And you are justified in complaining about it.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> I don't understand your logic.  These people have been in longer than you.  They may have failed for reasons that were not academically related; ie. Medical Recourse, Compassionate, or a myriad of other reasons.  Next question:  How long should they wait?  Until after your course is done, or the next one, or the next one, or when?



No George, these people fail....from what I understand, averaging 3 every QL3 course(because it is hard, and people rather party than study). And yes, they should wait. Troops deserve good medics. How many chances do you want a medic to do things correctly during saving a person's life?


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## George Wallace

Prairie Dog said:
			
		

> No George, these people fail....from what I understand, averaging 3 every QL3 course(because it is hard, and people rather party than study). And yes, they should wait. Troops deserve good medics. How many chances do you want a medic to do things correctly during saving a person's life?



I can agree with that.  However, if they are actually Training Failures, what are we doing putting them on another Crse?  As you say, do I, or anyone else, want a Medic who failed their Crse working on me/us?  No.  Time to OT them to another Trade.

As for Sgts taking QL 3 posns on Crse, that is wrong.  They should be getting their tickets punched elsewhere.


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## ArmyGuy99

I must say that when I first read the last few posts, I was wee bit upset.  Then I cooled off and read them again.  So, here's my .02 cents, tax free:



			
				Prairie Dog said:
			
		

> ...Esp if the portion (and it most likely is) the JIBC portion. They can cancel some of the Sgts off those positions (what a waste,sendin a Sgt to do a Pte level course for a "ticket") so that QL3 can redo the course they need to do so they can get into a unit where we need them.



I'm not sure if it's changed since I was out there last year, but usually when you failed in BC they tried their best to not even send you back to Borden, everything was done by phone.  And you got loaded onto the next crse usually in the module that you failed.  This was easy as each course was about 4 weeks behind the other.  I'm sure this has changed as I know the course is now 6 months instead of 16 wks +5 days.  

I also agree on sending Sgt.'s on a Pte Course.  When we saw them arrive last September, we were a little confused, but didn't pay much attention as we were a little busy on our On Car rotation and studying for the Provincial Exams.  



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> I can agree with that.  However, if they are actually Training Failures, what are we doing putting them on another Crse?  As you say, do I, or anyone else, want a Medic who failed their Crse working on me/us?  No.  Time to OT them to another Trade....



I'm not sure I completely agree.  Training is the place to make mistakes, since you can always try again.  However, in the real life that isn't so.  The PCP Course in BC is very intense and was the hardest I've ever done.  I'm 27 and I already have one college diploma, and started a second before seeing the light.  But some people haven't learned how to do independent study yet, and they need that second chance.  It's not because they're not smart enough, or capable enough but they just didn't have the proper tools to get the job done.  Round one they get the tools, and round 2 they finish job no problems.


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## MTSweet

foxhound031 said:
			
		

> When you are done your BMQ, you will come to CFB Borden and stay in PRETC until there is an opening at CFMSS for your course.  When you get on course, you will spend 14 weeks doing your clinical care (CC) phase.  When you are done that, you will go to JIBC at Chilliwack, BC for 6 months to do your emergency care (EC) phase.  When you are done that you will return to CFMSS at Borden to do your field phase which last's around 3 weeks, but counting in your IRPP and posting briefs, you will be looking at close to a year before you are done your QL3's.  That is after you are done BMQ



This exactly the info I was looking for, thank you so much! 

I have been looking all over on how to find out when the course dates at CFMSS start, can anyone tell me how you get that info?


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## The_Falcon

MTSweet said:
			
		

> This exactly the info I was looking for, thank you so much!
> 
> I have been looking all over on how to find out when the course dates at CFMSS start, can anyone tell me how you get that info?



Its only available on the DIN (intranet).  But don't get to concerned about dates, since they fluctuate, and unless you are currently sitting in Borden right now in PRETC then, you have other hurdles to clear first.


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## MedCorps

QL3 0043 (Clinical Phase) 2 Feb to 7 May 2009 
QL3 0044 (Clinical Phase) 23 Feb to 27 May 2009. 

I hope that is of some help. 

MC


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## kawigirl

I am in Borden on PRETC and the course dates that are mentioned above is the course dates that I am also aware of. I am on the Feb 23, 2009 course...Yeah! ;D


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## Cdnrednk

Good luck and HAVE FUN! Don't party too much, but bond with your team mates and relax, it's not as bad as you think it will be. I enjoyed my 3s, especially my final on car portion.


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## mariomike

Interesting reading. 
This is useless trivia, nonetheless, I hope you don't mind me mentioning that when I joined Metro ( as it was called back then ) Toronto in 1972, they sent me to CFB Borden. We called it Camp Borden.  Ambulancemen from all over Ontario were there. I was the only one from Toronto on my course. There were 20 of us. The soldiers trained us, and we lived in the barracks. 
They showed us some horror films of car accidents in Ohio.  This was before TV news sent cars to wrecks.  None of us had ever seen such films. Most worked for funeral homes. That's were I got my start. Sounds funny now, but that's the way it was.  
The ambulances, many were Cadillacs,  were equipped with first aid supplies and oxygen.  And lots of forcible entry and rescue equipment ( that's all gone from the ambulances and switched to the fire engines now ) . CPR was just a railroad, back then. They were also equipped with straight jackets, and we used them frequently. All ambulance attendants were male. That was to change some years later. The main focus seemed to be traffic accidents. This was before MADD, mandatory safety belt laws, air bags and the speed limit was 70 MPH. Auto extrication was the big focus. It was non stop action. Lots of overtime. The fire department did not roll on car wrecks, back then, unless it caught fire. 
Mention is made of black ( actually dark navy ) uniforms. We wore immaculate white medical smocks. Not lab coats. These button up the side of your neck. Wear them over a T shirt. In the near future, we will be switching ( I think ) to lime green. I've seen them testing them. 
Anyway, it was a good course. And good times.  A few years later, they sent us to Humber College. But, back then Camp Borden was considered state of the art for our profession.  
Sorry for taking up so much bandwith with nostagalia. It seems like yesterday. If the moderator desires, please delete. Pardon me for interrupting your more modern discussion. I'll go back to lurking.


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