# Using an enemy's rifle?



## Ak.abdale (22 Mar 2008)

I used the search function and came up with no results for the answer I'm looking for. Okay, so say your in a combat situation and your weapon brakes or you are out of ammo with no other means of defending yourself, are you allowed to grab an enemy's weapon off the ground and use that? This is just out of curiosity and I highly doubt it would actually happen.


Ak.Abdale


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## TN2IC (22 Mar 2008)

Ak.abdale said:
			
		

> Okay, so say your in a combat situation and your weapon brakes or you are out of ammo with no other means of defending yourself
> Ak.Abdale


 

Then your not a well train soldier... now are you?


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## blacktriangle (22 Mar 2008)

Ak.abdale said:
			
		

> I used the search function and came up with no results for the answer I'm looking for. Okay, so say your in a combat situation and your weapon brakes or you are out of ammo with no other means of defending yourself, are you allowed to grab an enemy's weapon off the ground and use that? This is just out of curiosity and I highly doubt it would actually happen.
> 
> 
> Ak.Abdale



I guess in that situation, would you want to live or die?  ;D That will find you your answer...


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## Ak.abdale (22 Mar 2008)

Well what if you have your rifle and you just pick up one of their's and just fire away? Is that against any rules or laws?


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## TN2IC (22 Mar 2008)

Ak.abdale said:
			
		

> Well what if you have your rifle and you just pick up one of their's and just fire away? Is that against any rules or laws?




Let's say I would prefer to be judge by 12 then be carry away by 6....


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## Michael OLeary (22 Mar 2008)

Ak.abdale,

I am not quite sure exactly what information you are seeking.

If you were in a critical situation and your only choice was to use an available enemy weapon or die, then yes, you probably would do so.  Keep in mind if things are that dire, there are probably friendly weapons handy that no longer have available operators to choose from as well.

Friendly weapons come with the familiarity and practice to use them efficiently, as well as a confidence factor that they have been maintained well enough to be trusted.  An enemy weapon is a complete gamble: is it loaded, is there other ammo, is it mechanically sound or likely to malfunction/explode/fail to fire, what do you do if any of those things happens?  Also, if you have to time to sort out an enemy's weapon, then you have to me to sort out the available friendly ones.

If you're wondering if you can just try an enemy weapon out of curiosity, then the answer is no (go back to the last para for all the reasons why this might be a bad choice).  If your curiosity is strong enough, start reading the weapons threads and you will be able to identify a few posters who might be able to tell you how to pursue safe and sane opportunities to try the small arms the enemy uses without having to consider picking them up in the field.


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## KevinB (22 Mar 2008)

One reason why Foriegn weapons classe ares taught.


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## Ak.abdale (23 Mar 2008)

I guess that makes sense. Thank you


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## 1feral1 (23 Mar 2008)

Ak.abdale said:
			
		

> I used the search function and came up with no results for the answer I'm looking for. Okay, so say your in a combat situation and your weapon brakes or you are out of ammo with no other means of defending yourself, are you allowed to grab an enemy's weapon off the ground and use that? This is just out of curiosity and I highly doubt it would actually happen.
> 
> 
> Ak.Abdale



Wargaming are we??

It does happen. 

Some in my Combat Team carried AKs as back-ups in their LAVs. No questions asked.

EDIT; I was also the OPI for foreign SA and RPG trg


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## Ak.abdale (24 Mar 2008)

Wesley Down Under: That clarifies what I was looking for. No wargaming here, but me and a couple friends might start with the clear plastic air-soft guns just around in the back field.


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## jp86 (24 Mar 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Chontosh


> The President of the United States
> Takes Pleasure in Presenting
> The Navy Cross
> To
> ...


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## Red 6 (24 Mar 2008)

If you are in a firefight and run out of ammo, then you better either pick something up or find some more ammo!


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## Fusaki (24 Mar 2008)

> Okay, so say your in a combat situation and your weapon brakes or you are out of ammo with no other means of defending yourself, are you allowed to grab an enemy's weapon off the ground and use that?



Yes, but it will only work if you're holding the X button.


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## mr.rhtuner (24 Mar 2008)

Red 6 said:
			
		

> If you are in a firefight and run out of ammo, then you better either pick something up or find some more ammo!




Exactly... no laws should stop you from protecting yourself just because you would opt for an enemy weapon...


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## Kat Stevens (24 Mar 2008)

Just think about it for a sec:  "No, I couldn't possibly pick up that dead Taliban's rifle and magazines, I may get fined.  Guess I'll just lay here bleeding 'til the women from the village come out to cut me balls off."  Eeeesh   :


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## Koenigsegg (24 Mar 2008)

I really don't think you would want to "opt" for an enemy weapon unless that is your only choice.  You aren't trained with it, and there are no guarantees as to it's condition.  So if you are without a firearm, and there are weapons of your comrades around, you should take those over any enemy weapon (unless you have a very specific need for an enemy weapon: stories from past wars where soldiers have turned the enemies machine gun on them).
You should almost always "opt" for a weapon your own military uses as you have all your training on those, we keep weapons clean and tend to them properly.

It would have to be really bad to need an enemy weapon I would believe, like Kat Stevens' example.


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## aesop081 (24 Mar 2008)

Don't forget booby traps.........


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## Nfld Sapper (24 Mar 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Don't forget booby traps.........



I see your sapper roots are still there


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## OldSolduer (24 Mar 2008)

??? I thought booby traps were bras.......Am I missin ??? sumthin hear?? ???


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## aesop081 (24 Mar 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> ??? I thought booby traps were bras.......Am I missin ??? sumthin hear?? ???



I hope you're kidding....... :-\


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## aesop081 (24 Mar 2008)

Just in case......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booby_trap

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/images/booby-trap-locations.gif


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## OldSolduer (24 Mar 2008)

Of course I'm kidding.....now I'm laughing so hard my stomach hurts,......you didn't think I was serious did you?? ;D


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## aesop081 (24 Mar 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> you didn't think I was serious did you?? ;D



I've been here long enough to know i have to ask. Stranger things have happened here.


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## Ak.abdale (24 Mar 2008)

Wonderbread: "Yes, but it will only work if you're holding the X button."

Man let me tell you that is a life saver when they only give you 60 rounds for your rifle.


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## stegner (24 Mar 2008)

Please consult the Law of Armed Conflict B-GJ-005-104/FP-021 5-1 through 5-10
http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/training/publications/law_of_armed_conflict/loac_2004_e.pdf



> 507. USE OF CAPTURED WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION
> 1. In a conflict, CF members may have to use captured enemy weapons and ammunition. While it is
> recognized that such weapons and ammunition may be used, they shall only be used if they do not cause
> superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering and are not indiscriminate in their effect. Standard military
> ...


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## Red 6 (25 Mar 2008)

Stegner: I don't know the exact US Army regulation, but there must be one almost verbatim to the one you've cited for the Canadian Forces. 

cheers, Mark


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## Outrak (25 Mar 2008)

http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief3-8.htm

speciffically this part

The IDF Code of Conduct

The IDF has developed a code of conduct that is a combination of international law, Israeli law, and the IDF's own traditional ethical code - ruach tzahal, "the spirit of the IDF." Reserve units and regular units alike are taught the following eleven rules of conduct:

   1. Military action can only be taken against military targets.
   2. The use of force must be proportional.*
   3. Soldiers may only use weaponry they were issued by the IDF.*
   4. Anyone who surrenders cannot be attacked.
   5. Only those who are properly trained can interrogate prisoners.
   6. Soldiers must accord dignity and respect to the Palestinian population and those arrested.
   7. Soldiers must give appropriate medical care, when conditions allow, to oneself and one's enemy.
   8. Pillaging is absolutely and totally illegal.
   9. Soldiers must show proper respect for religious and cultural sites and artifacts.
  10. Soldiers must protect international aid workers, including their property and vehicles.
  11. Soldiers must report all violations of this code. 

apparently I$sreali soldiers cannot use an enemies weapon


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## LineDoggie (25 Mar 2008)

Ak.abdale said:
			
		

> I used the search function and came up with no results for the answer I'm looking for. Okay, so say your in a combat situation and your weapon brakes or you are out of ammo with no other means of defending yourself, are you allowed to grab an enemy's weapon off the ground and use that? This is just out of curiosity and I highly doubt it would actually happen.
> 
> 
> Ak.Abdale



In a New York Minute, I would have that AK up and running if it were all that was available.

In Iraq besides My M4 I had a PPsh41 with 10 drums in my M1114 and an AKMS for the M240 gunner as Backups. All My Men were trained on the AK, PKM series if only to clear them after capturing them.

I dont think My PL would have required we ask for permission to use enemy weapons if we ran out of ammo in a firefight(he had a Tokarev on his rig)


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## 1feral1 (25 Mar 2008)

Outrak said:
			
		

> apparently I$sreali soldiers cannot use an enemies weapon



Hogwash!! The IDF have captured AKs in their catalogue of small arms.

If you think you will get any mercy from an enemy who values death as much as you do life, well they will cut you NO slack, so if you can use an En wpn to mow these phuckers down - do it, or you're dead!

Info from the INet to real life is day and night!


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## mckee19 (25 Mar 2008)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Info from the INet to real life is day and night!



words to live by

Wesley i appreciate your "tell it like it is" approach


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## NL_engineer (25 Mar 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Don't forget booby traps.........



If you just saw him drop dead, there is a good chance in is not booby trapped (unless said en insured it dropped on a pressure release device  :), you are right if it was lying around, but then one word comes to mind PULLING  ;D


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## stegner (25 Mar 2008)

> Apparently Israeli soldiers cannot use an enemies weapon



I think that the Israeli Code of Conduct refers to personal weapons.  For example,  you can't bring your fancy new Tavor from home because your unit might be using using the Galil or M-16.  You have to use what everyone else is using in your unit.   However, I don't think this precludes the use of the enemy's weapons in an emergency.


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## KevinB (25 Mar 2008)

This thread makes the Baby Jesus cry...


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## George Wallace (25 Mar 2008)

How many pages does it take to simply say "YES"?


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## George Wallace (25 Mar 2008)

And as this can't go much further:

LOCKED


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