# Discrimination against homosexuals, races, etc.



## hoote (2 Sep 2005)

During my interview, the  Captain very seriously read the CF's discrimination policy and I of course agreed to it.  Is that thing a problem in the CF?  I imagine if somone was a homosexual they wouldn't dare tell anyone anyways but do people actually discriminate others because of race, sex, etc.?  I can't see why.  Your thoughts.


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## nULL (2 Sep 2005)

Discrimination in the CF and the rest of society has been deemed unacceptable behaviour. The only difference between the two is that the CF will actually take action against bigots.


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## paracowboy (2 Sep 2005)

discriminate? No.
Make fun of? Constantly.
Tolerate anyone else making fun of our buddies? No.

The infantry runs on insults. Anything is fair game except wives and childen. (Unless you're really close, then you can make fun of his handicapped kids, or really fat wife).
And I know a few openly gay people in the Army.


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## Ranman (2 Sep 2005)

Ya we had a gay Cpl in our Platoon and a gay Company commander.

During one exercise our Platoon commander assigned the Cpl to be the Company commander radio opperator as a gift.

I am glad I wasn't in that Grizzly.


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## Fry (3 Sep 2005)

Discrimination is wrong, indeed. However you will run into many people, all with their own opinions. Many on this board know where I stand so I'm not going to start up anything else. Just remember that freedom of speech works both ways.


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## NavComm (3 Sep 2005)

Let's see, bmq. some gays, lesbians, blacks, asians, women, white males, newfies...just a hodgepodge of minorities. Didn't see any rampant homophobia or racist behaviour.   The policy is what it is, and it's enforced, as it should be.


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## Gunner98 (3 Sep 2005)

Freedom of speech is one of those Human Rights that are curtailed once you don the uniform. Staying in your lane and responding when your opinion is requested about something you know about are fine concepts.

"During one exercise our Platoon commander assigned the Cpl to be the Company commander radio opperator as a gift."  Perhaps it was more of means of avoiding the perceived bias in your unit/accomodatiing them both, rather than matchmaking.  I guess if the Coy Comd had been a stud/cutie and the rad op a cutie/stud, you would have liked to watch or would you have equally deterred from being in the Grizzly?

From Somlia Inquiry http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Reports/somalia/vol5/V5C43_e.asp:
_
A soldier knowingly and willingly forgoes certain rights and obligations on joining the CF. These include certain limitations on freedom of speech in the area of public dissent, on freedom of association, and on the right to engage in certain political activities." Such limitations are regarded as necessary in support of the group and in the interests of good order and discipline.

Military life stresses the obligation to subordinate individual interests, concerns, and fears to the needs of the group. Military history is replete with examples showing that the unit is capable of prevailing against great odds, provided all members act as a cohesive whole. Together, individuals in a unit can endure grave danger in demanding and difficult circumstances. Apart, they would be doomed to defeat._


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## Fry (3 Sep 2005)

Good post gunner98.


Yep, the only thing that pisses me off with freedom of speech, and rights, is that any minority can speak out and it's considered progressive protected speech, but when I speak out against someone's views, I'm labeled a bigot or a hate monger.

And I'm not talking about casting hatred, calling names or any of that.


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## Gunner98 (3 Sep 2005)

I agree that biting one's tongue is not always easy.  I have spoken my mind on many occasions particularly when asked by a senior person what I think.  It is when we express our dissenting opinions to our subordinates that it poses a bigger problem. There is an expectation of those superior in rank to understand, acknowledge and enforce policy, when we let our contrary opinions confuse the issue we have done a disservice.  

If we are sharing our opinions with peers in an appropriate private forum that is fair game.

I always think of the Marines in the final scene of "A Few Good Men".   

DOWNEY
What did we do wrong?

DAWSON
We did nothing wrong.

Sam slaps his hands down on the table ? 

SAM
Yes you did! A jury just said your conduct was unbecoming 
a marine. What does that mean?!

DAWSON
You're the lawyer.

SAM
You're the marine.

DAWSON
Not anymore.

Sam lets it hang. Dawson is staring at Sam. His stare moves slowly to the floor.

DAWSON
(continuing)
I never meant to hurt Willy.

Dawson looks up at HIS PARENTS. The moment hangs there... before.

SERGEANT AT ARMS
Kaffee, I've gotta take these guys over to personnel for 
some paper work.

Kaffee nods.

SERGEANT AT ARMS
(continuing; to Dawson & Downey)
Gentleman?

Dawson looks to Kaffee. There's gotta be more. This can't be it.

But Kaffee has nothing to say.

Dawson and Downey walk to the Sergeant At Arms and begin to follow him up the aisle and out of 
the courtroom. But before they get to the door, Kaffee turns around and calls

KAFFEE
Harold!

They stop and turn around.

DAWSON
Sir!

KAFFEE
(pause)
You don't need to wear a patch on your arm to have honor.


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## Fry (3 Sep 2005)

well said Gunner98.


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## Island Ryhno (3 Sep 2005)

NavComm said:
			
		

> Let's see, bmq. some gays, lesbians, blacks, asians, women, white males, newfies...just a hodgepodge of minorities.



Umm, I'm confused with your hodgepodge of minorities. How did "newfies" make it in, also white males? Although woman are not a visible minority, I will concur that they take much more heat than any man would, and that's wrong. I am interested in knowing what makes you think to write "newfies" and not say..British Columbians or Albertans.


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## Fry (3 Sep 2005)

Indeed. I overlooked this as well. Women make up a large percentage of the human population. And about the newfies, why single our province? Why not the NWT natives, or  Ontarian? 

Caucaision males are definately not a minority.

Yeah, if you're going to regard us fine people from Newfoundland, you could call us Newfoundlanders, instead of newfies.


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## paracowboy (3 Sep 2005)

actually, the error is in listing Newfies as minorities in the CF. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting about 7 of 'em! They made up 60% of the Forces a few years back. Hell, the CDS is a Newf!


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## Fry (3 Sep 2005)

I'm a Newfoundlander, born and bred
And I'll be one 'till I die!

I'm proud to be an islander, and here's the reason why,
I'm as free as the wind and the waves that wash the sand...

There's no place I'd rather be, than here in Newfoundland!

Lots of fellow Newfoundlanders in the forces? Awesome


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## NCRCrow (3 Sep 2005)

I do not care who you are as long as you show up for work on time and follow the rules.

Gay, straight,...whatever


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## Strike (3 Sep 2005)

> During one exercise our Platoon commander assigned the Cpl to be the Company commander radio opperator as a gift.



I've run into this attitude several times -- if I do well or am rewarded for something, I am OBVIOUSLY sleeping with a superior, or at least trying to get in bed with him.

It's usually the younger guys who have not performed as well or are lacking in self esteem that take this attitude.


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## NavComm (4 Sep 2005)

Fry you wont' be homesick! The newfies were everywhere! In fact we waited at the airport for 'some more recruits' when their plane landed there was about 60 Newfoundlanders on it. I think they should just have their private transport straight to Borden. 

One of my roomies was from there and I wrote down a bunch of her sayings. I'll have to look that out and we can talk 

We joked that there were three official languages in the CF...english, french and newfa-nese


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## NavComm (4 Sep 2005)

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> Umm, I'm confused with your hodgepodge of minorities. How did "newfies" make it in, also white males? Although woman are not a visible minority, I will concur that they take much more heat than any man would, and that's wrong. I am interested in knowing what makes you think to write "newfies" and not say..British Columbians or Albertans.



I was trying to inject humour. Sorry if I offended you.


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## NavComm (4 Sep 2005)

I guess sarcasm doesn't always translate well in written form. I am female, got friends of all colours, persuasions and nationalities and from all over the world.


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## ExistancE (4 Sep 2005)

Fry said:
			
		

> Women make up a large percentage of the human population.
> Caucaision males are definately not a minority.



As part of the human population they certainly are...


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## Fry (4 Sep 2005)

NavComm said:
			
		

> Fry you wont' be homesick! The newfies were everywhere! In fact we waited at the airport for 'some more recruits' when their plane landed there was about 60 Newfoundlanders on it. I think they should just have their private transport straight to Borden.
> 
> One of my roomies was from there and I wrote down a bunch of her sayings. I'll have to look that out and we can talk
> 
> We joked that there were three official languages in the CF...english, french and newfa-nese



Oh, I'm not gonna be homesick, I lived away from home for the last couple of years.


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## jerrold (5 Sep 2005)

hoote said:
			
		

> *I imagine if somone was a homosexual they wouldn't dare tell anyone anyways*




Hmmm ... interesting.


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## Fusaki (5 Sep 2005)

> discriminate? No.
> Make fun of? Constantly.
> Tolerate anyone else making fun of our buddies? No.
> 
> The infantry runs on insults.



Paracowboy said it best. 

When the troops get bored they sit around and cut each other up. A tight group of guys can do this sort of thing and even take it to extremes outsiders might find offensive. But thats just our culture. Its not a reflection of who likes who. Its just having a laugh and killing time.

But when it comes to actually doing the job, I think racism is less of an issue in the army then most other places on civvie street. When you've got your game face on, everyone is a soldier and thats all that matters.


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## Strike (6 Sep 2005)

> When the troops get bored they sit around and cut each other up. A tight group of guys can do this sort of thing and even take it to extremes outsiders might find offensive. But thats just our culture. Its not a reflection of who likes who. Its just having a laugh and killing time.



But there is a difference between ribbing someone to their face and talking about them behind their back, which was the problem I faced.


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## oftengone (6 Sep 2005)

You know military is like a world of it's own.  Making fun of people and discrimination is part of life, and every day life.  But like someone else before me told you, it might be tolerated in the real word but not in the military.  When a CO is aware of the situation, action is taken and fast.  But you have to remember, what even happens in your surrounding, when push comes to shove,  you're buddies will always be there for you....


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## paracowboy (6 Sep 2005)

depends on who it is. My buddy and I were walking down the main hall, calling each other by our usual terms of endearment, and the RSM was right behind us. He knew his troops well enough that he realized we were just givin' it to each other. Because he knew us.
On the other end of the spectrum, I've had an officer order me not to call a female friend by her nickname. Because he felt it was sexist. 
And I've seen weirder things: a black friend get grilled for being a neo-NAZI, being jacked up for calling myself a half-breed, etc.


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## BDTyre (6 Sep 2005)

I joined the army to defend this country, which includes everyone in it.  In my eyes, that doesn't mix with a bigoted attitude.    When things turn pear-shaped, you can't really chose who you're fighting for or who sits next to you in a foxhole.


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## Fry (6 Sep 2005)

Not within reference of the last few posts,

I dislike nowadays how people who truely excercise their freedom of speech are referred to as bigots, because as I mentioned earlier, it does work both ways.


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## navyguy (6 Sep 2005)

Pte (R) B

I with you on this one


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## paracowboy (6 Sep 2005)

personally, I just hate everyone equally. Keeps things simple.


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## KevinB (6 Sep 2005)

2332Piper said:
			
		

> For example, everyone on this site should know where I stand on homosexuality. However, I keep the opinions to myself and quite frankly



Uhm...

IF you keep it to yourself - how do we all know?  ???


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## Bruce Monkhouse (6 Sep 2005)

Quote,
Uhm...
IF you keep it to yourself - how do we all know?  


Now THATS funny,.....I love you, Ke....uhm,..err ...Samantha!!!


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## Strike (7 Sep 2005)

> Everyone in the army is green in my eyes so when it comes down to it opinions are like...you know the rest.



I resent that remark -- I'm BLUE, or at least my headdress is.   ;D


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## beach_bum (7 Sep 2005)

Strike said:
			
		

> I resent that remark -- I'm BLUE, or at least my headdress is.     ;D



You aren't in the army though!  LOL


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## Strike (7 Sep 2005)

Nope.  I'm in the AIRmy.


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## Fry (7 Sep 2005)

I was thinking the same 


If for some reason I can't live my life in the CF, I'd like to be a beach bum.


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## beach_bum (7 Sep 2005)

Sorry, that position is already spoken for!


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## Fry (7 Sep 2005)

We can both be beachbums then and sip tea while surfing ;D


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## KevinB (7 Sep 2005)

Fry said:
			
		

> We can both be beachbums then and sip tea while surfing ;D



Hey dude   ???

- stand in line -

There is a whole bunch of us that are lined up ahead of you, all vieing for that spot


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## BDTyre (7 Sep 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> personally, I just hate everyone equally. Keeps things simple.



There's this great "Life in Hell" comic: two guys are at a crowded New Year's Party, and one guy comments to his friend, "If I wasn't such a people person, I'd kill everyone here."  ;D


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## Fry (8 Sep 2005)

Hank Hill puts it best:


"What kind of country do we live in where the only man I can hate is white?"


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## Old Ranger (9 Sep 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> personally, I just hate everyone UNTRAINED  equally. Keeps things simple.



If I may add?


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## paracowboy (9 Sep 2005)

Old Ranger said:
			
		

> If I may add?


I'm not sure I follow.


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## J.R. (9 Sep 2005)

What about homersexuals?   ;D


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## Old Ranger (9 Sep 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> I'm not sure I follow.



Added the "Untrained" in Orange.

Used similar line instructing Basic......years and years ago.


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## paracowboy (9 Sep 2005)

Old Ranger said:
			
		

> Added the "Untrained" in Orange.
> 
> Used similar line instructing Basic......years and years ago.


sorry, APS moments. I think I'll be stealing that from you. 

homersexual, heh. Great glayvin in a glass, but that's funny!


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## Old Ranger (9 Sep 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> sorry, APS moments. I think I'll be stealing that from you.



Steal.....not.  But I offer it as humble gift.


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## theoldyoungguy (10 Sep 2005)

homosexuality in the CF... accepted, yes, encouraged, no.


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## Strike (10 Sep 2005)

loyaleddie87 said:
			
		

> homosexuality in the CF... accepted, yes, encouraged, no.



What's unfortunate about that statement is you could probably throw in a couple of other groups in place of "homosexual" and people would agree with you.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Sep 2005)

Whats unfortunate is that whole stupid statement, I don't seem to recall any of the courses I took encouraging me to be a heterosexual......


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## J.R. (10 Sep 2005)

Exactly! :


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## Fry (11 Sep 2005)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Whats unfortunate is that whole stupid statement, I don't seem to recall any of the courses I took encouraging me to be a heterosexual......



I'm not sure if he was referring to courses encouraging anyone to be sexually oriented a certain way, but probably about the members. Many people do not accept homosexuality.


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## SemperFidelis (11 Sep 2005)

OH   man...honestly , whatever you are..thats great.   But, its getting old hearing..im gay and proud, im this and im that, im gonna parade and shove it in your face.   Thats great....I dont see straight people having a straight parade, or driving around with IM STRAIGHT bumper stickers and so on and so forth.   It just seems more and more, the attention is being brought to the homosexsual issue (if thats even the right word for it, since I dont see it as being an issue...to each their own)   by the gay community ...than there is by the straight.

 I think the real problem is those unaccepting, that are dealt with accordingly...especially in CF.


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## Britney Spears (11 Sep 2005)

> It just seems more and more, the attention is being brought to the homosexsual issue (if thats even the right word for it, since I dont see it as being an issue...to each their own)  by the gay community ...than there is by the straight.



That's because gay people don't beat and murder straight people for being straight, and straight people were not denied any of the rights (marriage, for one) that gays were and still are. Want to see  some "straight pride" in action? Go to a bar or nightclub.  :

I suppose it's a good thing that you don't know about it. Means the battle's mostly won already.


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## Fry (11 Sep 2005)

Guys, I gotta agree with Semper_Fidelis on this one. Most definately.


It's not only homosexuals either, I see this strongly with black people. Now don't get me wrong, I love em all (especially chris rock, he's hilarious. That chick from austin powers 3 is pretty hot too.  ) But I don't see why there should be a Gay Pride parade/march/week/magazine, or Black History month, or "Niggaz proud to be brothaz" type people who class themselves as "soldiers and gangstas". I think a lot of people, including other black people in the forces are a little ticked when you have rappers calling themselves soldiers and stuff, since what they do totally does not reflect the views of the CF, or any other nation's armed forces.

Now, If I, Fry, Decided to throw a White parade, or white history month, or white parade.... I think I wouldn't be labelled as a savior, but as a bigot/racist/hater/member of the kkk/white supremist. None of these would be true. It's just a messed up world, if you ask me.

Basically, I think it's the flaming aspect that ticks off many people.




			
				Britney Spears said:
			
		

> That's because gay people don't beat and murder straight people for being straight, and straight people were not denied any of the rights (marriage, for one) that gays were and still are. Want to see   some "straight pride" in action? Go to a bar or nightclub.   :
> 
> I suppose it's a good thing that you don't know about it. Means the battle's mostly won already.



Yeah but people that murder others based on their gender preference aren't ticking right upstairs anyway, and don't speak for everyone who's straight.

Who's rights? Seems as though they now gain rights to marriage, while I lose my right to freedom of speech. If I speak out against this, I'm shot down as a bigotted gay-hating animal. 

As for straight action, a lot of the clubs I've been to, I haven't seen a flaming amount of "straight-action". If you go to sleezy dance clubs and stuff, you're going to see all kinds of action. Hell I've seen people walking others with leashes and all.

As I've said before, I think it's disgusting, and I'm not for homosexuality at all. But, that is my opinion, and they are entitled to their rights just as well as I am. I'd do my job along side 'em and as long as they do theirs, there's no complaints from me.


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## SemperFidelis (11 Sep 2005)

BS, don't assume that I don't know.   You're being discriminatory against my youth. (HA!!)


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## FormerHorseGuard (11 Sep 2005)

I lived on a base that  no longer is there, it is park land i hear.

in one building there was  2 known and admitted females who did not like males, that was fine, they were left alone and they left the rest of alone in that  building,  other 2 floors were male only floors

there 2 guys who lived on one floor,  one was openly gay, he was getting a divorce and decided men were better. the other guy was just posted in after his ql 3 in borden and he had different tastes and he was my  roommate. to be honest it was awkward to live with him for the first few months because i was never sure what side he was on or what  side he was dating that weekend.  he went both ways i guess you could say. he was not open enough to say  he was gay  or heterosexual, he even dressed up as a drag queen and came back to the barracks in drag at least once. a guy  across the hall told me after I came back off leave there was a hot girl in my  room on the weekend and he wanted her number.  the girl was my  roommate, in airforce blue dress.  along with some of his drag friends.  i am sure had the other guys in the barracks knew this guy was what he was there would of been trouble. 
being gay or heterosexual does not amke you a good or bad soldier, it is your actions when in uniform and at work that  makes the soldier. 

I think there have been more problems with the NEW to Canada soldiers then you will have with the gay  people serviing in the military, on one res basic training course we had to esplain the movies were old and that  we not training them to kill people from their home land but rather it was old movies made during the coldwar days and that  USSR was the named ememy  not RUSSIA. 
 The army has to teach respect to all races , creeds regardless of what  they  do behind closed doors.


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## cgyflames01 (11 Sep 2005)

Alter Ego said:
			
		

> What about homersexuals?     ;D


Marge Simpson?   :
I'd hope that their still arn't people so uncomfortable with Homosexuals, that they can't say the name. As long as they don't inapproply involve us, Let 'em be.


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## cgyflames01 (11 Sep 2005)

It's not only homosexuals either, I see this strongly with black people. Now don't get me wrong, I love em all (especially chris rock, he's hilarious. That chick from austin powers 3 is pretty hot too.  ) But I don't see why there should be a Gay Pride parade/march/week/magazine, or Black History month, or "Niggaz proud to be brothaz" type people who class themselves as "soldiers and gangstas". I think a lot of people, including other black people in the forces are a little ticked when you have rappers calling themselves soldiers and stuff, since what they do totally does not reflect the views of the CF, or any other nation's armed forces.

Now, If I, Fry, Decided to throw a White parade, or white history month, or white parade.... I think I wouldn't be labelled as a savior, but as a bigot/racist/hater/member of the kkk/white supremist. None of these would be true. It's just a messed up world, if you ask me.

Basically, I think it's the flaming aspect that ticks off many people.

Nicely said Fry. The only real race is the human race


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## MCpl Wesite (11 Sep 2005)

and the only colour is olive drab...wait now it's nintendo cam!

Seriously though, who gives a rat's ass? If you do your job and do it well I don't care what you do on your time, just don't bring it to the parade square


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## SemperFidelis (11 Sep 2005)

MCpl Westie said:
			
		

> and the only colour is olive drab...wait now it's nintendo cam!
> 
> Seriously though, who gives a rat's ***? If you do your job and do it well I don't care what you do on your time, just don't bring it to the parade square



I concur


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## J.R. (11 Sep 2005)

Hey flamesguy/gal, Re. homersexuals ... just kidding, of course, nothing to do with not being able to _*write*_ homosexuals.  So, to be serious on a very serious topic.  I agree we are all part of the same race; there is only one for humans, the human race.  Could care less whom is gay and whom is not.  I expect those of the same, opposite, and both sexes rolled into one, to respect me as I do them.  Therefore, inappropriate behaviour by a female is not tolerated just as inappropriate behaviour by a male.  Don't read into and make assumptions about homophobia where none exists.  By the way, anyone studied recent psychological results re. homophobia ... results are intriguing ... some positive correlation in the latent homophobia arena ... generalization of course. ;D   :dontpanic:


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## Britney Spears (11 Sep 2005)

> Now, If I, Fry, Decided to throw a White parade, or white history month, or white parade.... I think I wouldn't be labelled as a savior, but as a bigot/racist/hater/member of the kkk/white supremist. None of these would be true. It's just a messed up world, if you ask me.



Good lord, they still MAKE people like you?

Perhaps you would like to enlighten me as to what "White History" is supposed to mean? Ever heard of Scots wearing kilts?  Quebecois celebrate St. Jean Baptiste Day? The Ottawa Greek Festival? They all celebrate cultures that are predominatly WHITE,  are they racists/bigots? 


Fry, I hope you grow out of this little phase before you get into the army.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Sep 2005)

MCpl Westie said:
			
		

> and the only colour is olive drab




And that is the last, most truthful word of this whole debate. If you've got something that proves this is against our whole military ethos, and you can coherently and succinctly, convey your thought via PM, I may reopen this.


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