# So Who's Got The New Bayonet?



## Yeoman (17 Aug 2005)

I just got issued mine today. So far I'm actually impressed. It's actually a SOLID bayonet that looks like it won't snap off in a soft target.
One of the guys (okay several) just happend to "slip" and have theirs go into the locker or table or whaver they could find. Seems pretty damn sturdy so far. I'll have to try out the wire cutters tomorrow when I'm cutting up the razor wire. The sharping stone looks like it could do the job........for maybe a year. But overall I'm impressed so far. I'll have to see how it turns out in a tree tomorrow.
Greg


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## Krazy-P (17 Aug 2005)

Got any pics?


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Aug 2005)

say what now


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Aug 2005)

and post pics NOW please.

just kidding about the emphasis.


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Aug 2005)

also an NSN if you please.


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## 1feral1 (17 Aug 2005)

I'll gladly trade an Aussie contract M9 Buck, first issue (rare, especially in North America), mint condition for one of these CAN-2000 bayonets. 

I can only hope ;D

Do post some pics of it for us.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Yeoman (17 Aug 2005)

well if I can remember to, I'll make sure to take some pics of me playing with it tomorrow.
maybe some in the shit pics 
Greg


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Aug 2005)

In the shit, in the urine, in the doughnut.  I could care less as long we get to see them.  Once again the Royals get first dibs at the new stuff.


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## Blakey (17 Aug 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> In the shit, in the urine, in the doughnut.   I could care less as long we get to see them.   Once again the Royals get first dibs at the new stuff.


Steadyyyyy!   ;D


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Aug 2005)

Easy peasy lemon squezzy.


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## scm77 (17 Aug 2005)

From the photo gallery, uploaded by Bomber


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## paracowboy (17 Aug 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> In the crap, in the urine, in the doughnut.   I could care less as long we get to see them.   Once again the Royals get first dibs at the new stuff.


au contraire, mon frere. paracowboy got his new bayonet some weeks ago! 
He enjoys it a great deal. 
He also enjoys talking about himself in the third person occasionally.


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)

Well if it isn't my rich cousins over there in Edmonton.
kinda looks like a K Bar.


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## paracowboy (18 Aug 2005)

kinda looks like one, but I find it doesn't handle quite the same. I actually prefer the balance and feel of the bayonet, but I have a bad habit of sticking my thumb into the hole when trying to exert pressure on a cut. That's gonna get me a broken thumb. But, for several 'knife-fighting drills' (for lack of a better term), I liked the way it handled in the modified sabre-grip, and reverse grip. The handle seems to be very ergonomically designed (for my hand, anyway). All in all, I dig it.

I wear it on the side of my vest, just over the utility pouch on my left, horizontal to the ground. I've rolled around with it there, a bit, and it seems to work so far.

A far cry from the POS we used to have, anywho.


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)

I thought is was illegal to sharpen the old C7 bayonet.   Was that incorrect or are we changing things now?


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## paracowboy (18 Aug 2005)

I was always told the same thing, but this puppy comes with a sharpening stone inset into the scabbard. I guess somebody caught on that edged weapons are supposed to be sharp.


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)

looks very similar to the M-9
http://www.armynavysales.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Product_Code=MA165&Category_Code=TSH7


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Aug 2005)

Naw, ours makes the M-9 look like a chinese knockoff. Ours certainly looks more robust. At least in the pictures.


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## paracowboy (18 Aug 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> looks very similar to the M-9


very similar. There's a slight difference in the blade geometry, for instance. The M-9 has more of a Bowie-style false edge, while our new bayonet has a tip more reminiscent of the tanto style. The handle of the M-9 is round, while ours is more oval, and shaped to the hand better (at least for my hands). It's quite similar to the M-16/C7 relationship, really.


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)

posted edited for those that are extremely picky.


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## paracowboy (18 Aug 2005)

post edited to acknowledge edited post
 ;D


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)

better pic of the M 9


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)

why I outta...


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)




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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)

http://www.m9bayonet.com


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## Michael OLeary (18 Aug 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> I thought is was illegal to sharpen the old C7 bayonet.  Was that incorrect or are we changing things now?



I believe the old story about having "dull" bayonet blades originally referred to "dull vs shiny," not "dull vs sharp."



> 1609 -- DULLING OF BAYONET BLADES
> 
> Where facilities are not available for dulling bayonet blades by sand or shot blasting, the following alternative method will be carried out by R.C.O.C. armourers attached to units and R.C.O.C workshops:--
> 
> ...


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## paracowboy (18 Aug 2005)

so is that why have I been expressly forbidden to sharpen my old POS bayonet for the better part of a decade? Because someone misinterpreted?


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## Michael OLeary (18 Aug 2005)

I would suspect "yes." Or perhaps is was a conscious decision that you not be allowed to play with sharp objects.    

There's also the underlying possibility that it was accepted by some parts of the system that disallowing sharpening would reduce wear on the blades, leading to replacement requirements. 

I would be interested to know if anyone has ever seen an official regulation ordering that bayonets not be sharpened, along with the technical/tactical/ROE based arguement to justify the decision. Obviously, this means something more in depth than a local order without such substantiation.


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## paracowboy (18 Aug 2005)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> I would suspect "yes." Or perhaps is was a conscious decision that you not be allowed to play with sharp objects.


entirely possible, and really, quite understandable. 



> I would be interested to know if anyone has ever seen an official regulation ordering that bayonets not be sharpened, along with the technical/tactical/ROE based arguement to justify the decision. Obviously, this means something more in depth than a local order without such substantiation.


you know, so would I, now that you mention it. I wonder if it could really be as simple as someone, somewhere, misinterpreting a written order, and it becoming unofficial policy?

Another reason/myth I was told was that by sharpening our bayonet, we were illegally modifying our weapons, in direct contravention to the Geneva Convention. But, I've never really believed that one. It's always struck me as an 'Urban Legend'.


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## 1feral1 (18 Aug 2005)

Great pics!

Is there a chance you can show us the back side of the scabbard, as it looks like a generic KCB77 type.

I was told by Diemaco that the screw driver was to be deleted from the CF version as it might catch a chin when inverted on the TV. I guess Diemaco was incorrect, or correct with the info they had at the time.

Anyways here is a few pics for comparison (which are only minutes old), and early forerunners (daddy and granddaddy in design) of the CF's new CAN-2000 bayonet.

The top bayonet is a KCB70 bayonet for the Stoner rifle, a Dutch NWM and West German Eickhorn production, c.1970. Quite rare these days, and worth a bit of $$.

The OD bayonet is the Eickhorn KCB77 M1 for the M16 family and other rifles capable of fitting the bayonet such as the AUG, K1A1, etc.

It has a detachable frog, as the Stoner does not. The M1 bayonet is still manufactured today, and the one picturesed is about c.1989 vintage, and formerly of Australian service. This bayonet was replaced by the Aust contract M9 Buck.

Either way its obvious that all these bayonets are infact copied after the Soviet late model AKM
bayonets, of which there is many variants by various other Com-Bloc countries who produced them. For once a litttle bit of Soviet influence on the west.


Cheers,

Wes


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## 1feral1 (18 Aug 2005)

Here is a pic of the Australian contract M9. Note the 'crows' foot on the blade and the scabbard. yes I'll trade this one for that bewdy of a CAN-2000 ;D

For comparison again, I have attached below some Soviet (Russian made) AKM bayonets. The black one is for the AK74, and is current, and the orange one is the second AKM model c.1986. Note the similarity in blases on this one compaired even to the M9.

Both Russian bayonets fit interchange on the AKM and AK74 rifles.

Cheers,

Wes


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## 1feral1 (18 Aug 2005)

Okay, here's those Russian bayonets  8)


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## 1feral1 (18 Aug 2005)

The final bit on the AK bayonet evolution as follows:

Top: Russian AK-47 bayonet c.1956 (for Ak-47s only. Does not fit on AKM rifles)

Centre: North Korean AKM bayonet c.1972 (similar to original AK-47 type but only fitd to AKMs NOT AK-47s). Note no wire cutting feature

Bottom: Russian 1st type AKM bayonet c.1959 (fits AKM and AK74 rifles only NOT Ak-47s). Again note the similiarity to the western KCB series, and the new CAN-2000 blade and wire cutter apparatus. 

It should be noted that numerous Com-Bloc countries had their own designs, all interchanged but differed slightly, such as the Polish version of the AKM bayonet has no saw on the blade, and the Chi-Com AKM version has no wire cutting feature. There are many more examples too numerous to mention.

Cheers,

Wes


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## JimmyPeeOn (18 Aug 2005)

What kind of mods did you have to do to fit that monster onto the TV?

Cheers;
Andrew


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## Matt_Fisher (18 Aug 2005)

My unit just received the new Marine Corps bayonet manufactured by Ontario Knife.  These things are like a cross between a bayonet and a K-Bar on steroids.  First impression:  Very sharp! Very pointy!  

Here are the specs from Ontario Knife's website, www.ontarioknife.com:

OKC3S Marine Bayonet with Scabbard
NSN: 1095-01-506-3424

8" Blade 
13 1/4" Overall 
1 3/8" Wide 
.200" Thick Proprietary Carbon Steel 
Clip Point - Full Tang Blade 
1 3/4" Mission Serration 
Phosphate non-reflective finish 
53-58 Rc. Hardness 
DynaflexÃ‚® Handle ergonomically grooved to reduce hand fatigue with positioning access point for quick redirect of positioning of blade in reduced visibility situations

Scabbard:
Manufactured with a low noise signature polyester elastomer 
Fitted internal stainless steel spring friction device at throat of scabbard to secure bayonet 
Ceramic-coated aluminum honing rod is located on back of scabbard 
Equipped with two load bearing attaching straps with cross straps, which allows variations of placement on the load bearing equipment. 
(MOLLE/PALS compatible)


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## 48Highlander (18 Aug 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> Another reason/myth I was told was that by sharpening our bayonet, we were illegally modifying our weapons, in direct contravention to the Geneva Convention. But, I've never really believed that one. It's always struck me as an 'Urban Legend'.



 :

Hey, I guess when you stick a flashlight on your C7 you're also illegaly modifying your weapon  ;D


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## Krazy-P (18 Aug 2005)

better than our old bayonet , still about 10 years behind every other army.


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## Michael Dorosh (18 Aug 2005)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> I would suspect "yes." Or perhaps is was a conscious decision that you not be allowed to play with sharp objects.
> 
> There's also the underlying possibility that it was accepted by some parts of the system that disallowing sharpening would reduce wear on the blades, leading to replacement requirements.
> 
> I would be interested to know if anyone has ever seen an official regulation ordering that bayonets not be sharpened, along with the technical/tactical/ROE based arguement to justify the decision. Obviously, this means something more in depth than a local order without such substantiation.



Dull bayonets goes back to the sword bayonet - was it Strome Galloway who talked about the Elgin Regiment being called out in August 1939, and the first thing they did was sharpen the bayonets?   Too dangerous drilling with sharp ones on parade (they were huge as at that time they were still using the SMLE).   Like the rum ration and an extra issue blanket, sharpened bayonets were a sign that you were really headed for the shit.   I hope my memory on this was accurate.

If such a rule persisted into the FN and C7 era, it may simply have been a holdover?


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## Bomber (18 Aug 2005)

I don't get Krazy-P's comment, it is the "Bayonet 2000" so it can;t be any more than 5 years behind anything, if it was 10, it would be the Bayonet 1995.  Mine has a screw driver bit on it because it was a company sample, the issue ones have it removed, with the driver on it, it made everyone look like armoured guys with that tell tale scar on the chin.  I did an obstable course with it and landing off the giant steps gave me a decent cut.  If you put the OKC next to ours, theirs is a bit bigger, but only by and inch or less.  The sharpening pad on ours will last for a long time, it is a patch of ground diamond, and you will probably wear the blade out before the sharpener.


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## paracowboy (18 Aug 2005)

Bomber said:
			
		

> I did an obstable course with it and landing off the giant steps gave me a decent cut.


one of the many reasons why I don't wear the thing on my chest.


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Aug 2005)

you must be a leader and not a follower.


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Aug 2005)

Before I went on Roto 0, with the RCR, I had a small incident with the breast mounted bayonet. Only a small poke, but enough to realise it might have been a problem. Reported it, but "Your just a militia CIMIC wog, right?" I was told, in no uncertain terms, that that was the way the army and the Regiment wanted it, and that's how it would be worn. I guess they mean't if I'd come under fire, to slowly let myself down into the prone position, so as not to be affected by the point of the scabbard peircing the soft under point of my chin. To quote one of their own famous CSM's, Eric Leclair, "You just don't fucki'n get it, do you?"


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## 1feral1 (19 Aug 2005)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> My unit just received the new Marine Corps bayonet manufactured by Ontario Knife.   These things are like a cross between a bayonet and a K-Bar on steroids.   First impression:   Very sharp! Very pointy!



Nice pic Matt. Give us a critique on one when you can. I have seen these bayonets on Ebay.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Jarnhamar (19 Aug 2005)

When do we recall these new bayonettes and order a new batch with cadpat cases?

I was fiddleling around with the new bayonette and i really liked it. Seems like a solid tool.


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## Da_man (22 Aug 2005)

Are they going to actually be issued or do you sign them with your wpn as with the nella??


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## Michael Dorosh (22 Aug 2005)

I wore the C7 bayonet on my tac vest during the small arms display at the Stampede; I was on 11 days straight (easy summer money).  After day one or two I was told, via my sergeant, to take the bayonet off the vest.  I guess the concern was that I might get hit over the head from behind and have the bayonet end up in the wrong hands.

Easy enough, I stopped wearing the vest altogether.

Funny, though, because I bought an identical bayonet (albeit with M16 scabbard) on ebay a couple weeks later.  They're not exactly secret weapons.  :


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## Scoobie Newbie (22 Aug 2005)

nella is what exactly?

You would turn in your old bayonet and get a new one presumably through your QM.


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## Blakey (22 Aug 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> nella is what exactly?
> 
> You would turn in your old bayonet and get a new one presumably through your QM.


You silly bird...you know... the _NELLA_....


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## paracowboy (22 Aug 2005)

I'm with CFL. Lost.


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## KevinB (22 Aug 2005)

NELLA was the marking (manufacturer?) of the C7 POS bayonet.

 Nice looking knife (the new one) - I think I'll stick to a Benchmade folder though...

Matt - 20" rifle and a sword bayonet... The USMC does not like to listen to its own AAR's eh?


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## Scoobie Newbie (23 Aug 2005)

Thank you.


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## GO!!! (23 Aug 2005)

Da_man said:
			
		

> Are they going to actually be issued or do you sign them with your wpn as with the nella??



Since when must you sign for your bayonet with your wpn? You keep it in your locker with the rest of your EIS.


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## MJP (23 Aug 2005)

Sadly with allot of reserve units they turn in their bayonets and draw them from the weapons lock-up as they need them.


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## KevinB (23 Aug 2005)

After all its for the children  :


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## JimmyPeeOn (23 Aug 2005)

Got mine a couple days ago.  Seems to be a bit tougher than the predecessor.

Cheers;
Andrew


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## 1feral1 (23 Aug 2005)

Diemaco had told me these were to serialised on the blade. Is this a fact, or was this a prototype version with the CFR on it?

Along with the bayonet itself (both sides), I'd like to see pics of the scabbard front and back please if you find the time.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Jungle (23 Aug 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Diemaco had told me these were to serialised on the blade. Is this a fact, or was this a prototype version with the CFR on it?


Yes, they are serialised on the blade.


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## Scoobie Newbie (23 Aug 2005)

If I ever get mine I'll take pics.  Doubtfull though.  The 2nd is 2nd to last when it comes to kit issue.


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## 2FERSapper (25 Aug 2005)

This will be quick and to the point....im over here in the sandbox for ther next 6 months and day one on the ground we get issued the new bayonet....good weight, looks and feels like a KBAR....2 problems ive noticed 1 the way it attaches to your tacvest it continually pops off when im out the family hatch of my bision and the straps the hold the top and bottem r abit to loose....the knife itself gets a 10 its put up with alot of crap already and the cool factor helps it get the 10 but the straps and the frog itself suck....debating all you want but im telling you 3weeks of use the the frog is giving abunch of guys problems... enjoy the nice weather in Canada...ill enjoy my melting weather here in the sandbox.


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## Bomber (25 Aug 2005)

I'll post a picture of ours next to the Marines new one next week.

2FERSapper
  Please write a UCR on the two problems you have found with it so far, or PM me with an email so I can bring some attention to your problems.


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## paracowboy (25 Aug 2005)

2FERSapper said:
			
		

> This will be quick and to the point....im over here in the sandbox for ther next 6 months and day one on the ground we get issued the new bayonet....good weight, looks and feels like a KBAR....2 problems ive noticed 1 the way it attaches to your tacvest it continually pops off when im out the family hatch of my bision and the straps the hold the top and bottem r abit to loose....the knife itself gets a 10 its put up with alot of crap already and the cool factor helps it get the 10 but the straps and the frog itself suck....debating all you want but im telling you 3weeks of use the the frog is giving abunch of guys problems... enjoy the nice weather in Canada...ill enjoy my melting weather here in the sandbox.


where you wearing it? Is the problem with the location, or are the snaps faulty?

Like I said earlier in the thread, I don't wear it on my chest. But if it's a problem with the snaps, we gotta get it fixed now.


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## Fishbone Jones (25 Aug 2005)

;D I can see it now: Everyone will have to turn in their TV to have it modified. Higher estimates this will take two weeks to two years. Everyone will be issued webbing in the interm ;D


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## geo (25 Aug 2005)

2FER
Must say that I have not yet had a chance to handle the new bayonet - working out of a Puzzle palace I don't handle the kit as often as I used to.......
Has anyone filed an unsatisfactory condition report?
Odd as this question may seem - lot of people complain without taking the time to report the problem.... endstate being that things don't get fixed & the bigshots don't know.
Are there suggested fixes - both temporary and permanent?
As a sapper - do you have something to contribute to solving the problem?

Have a good tour - keep safe

Chimo!


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## Scoobie Newbie (25 Aug 2005)

A large part of not reporting the problem is that we pions have no idea what a UCR is.  I only learned about them when KevinB first talked about them here.  Up until that time I had no idea.


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## geo (25 Aug 2005)

Trust Kevin to put you right.
If you have a gripe about a definite defect.... see about having a UCR filed
worst possible outcome - thanks a lot - we've already heard from 70,000 other (un)satisfied users.


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## GO!!! (25 Aug 2005)

The best solution I have seen for the frog and it's inadequacies in regards to the new bayonet (or the old one) is to use the "weave" part of the frog to connect the bayonet to the front or rear of the canteen pouch or utility pouch, to the straps with the metal fasteners and velcro. 

Small zap straps go on the inside if you have sausage fingers. 

The downside is that the scabbard now hangs down below the bottom edge of your TV, but at least the frog is secure, and out of the way. A small piece of bungee with a surgeon's locking knot completes the ensemble.

Tie 80lb test on as per normal for jumping/helocasting.

I know it is a little Mickey Mouse, but it works really well!!


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## paracowboy (25 Aug 2005)

I'm tellin ya, put it on sideways...I need a digital camera and somebody who knows how put pictures up on here. 
GO!!! stop by my cage tomorrow (if you've dried off by then) and I can at least show you where I put mine. Bring candy.


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## Scoobie Newbie (25 Aug 2005)

That's all fine and dandy for the untouchable WO's but what if your CSM and/or RSM is an old school dink?


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## KevinB (25 Aug 2005)

Tell them the 1st and 3rd Bn's wear them like that and your trying to follow senior and superior unit example  ;D


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## paracowboy (25 Aug 2005)

I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor do I intend to ever be, a WO. And I do it, anyway. 'Cause I* am * an @sshole.
I don't know if GO!!! has ever been, or intends to be, a WO, but he is not one now, and he does it anyway. Same reason. 
Kev...well, you know Kev. 


 ;D


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## Scoobie Newbie (25 Aug 2005)

you gonna do my extra's for me then?  didn't think so.  Maybe I'll just throw out your name Kev.  That should get me some attention. ;D


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## Scoobie Newbie (25 Aug 2005)

Well PC I see your in the third so I think that's self explanitory.  lol
Isn't there a rule in the 3rd that your side burns must be at a minimum down to the bottom of your ear?


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## paracowboy (25 Aug 2005)

but no farther than your jaw line.


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## Scoobie Newbie (25 Aug 2005)

Thank you for clearing that up.
P.S.  I have heard the "nor do I intend to ever be, a WO" line too many times to count.  I'll tip my glass when I hear of your promtion. hehehe


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## Britney Spears (25 Aug 2005)

> & the bigshots don't know.




OK, I'm probably completely out to lunch here, but WHY would we start issuing a piece of kit forces wide when we don't even know if it works? Isn't there any Testing/Evaluation involved in this? I know with things like helicopters it's a crap shoot, but how much trouble could it be to have one of the said "bigwigs" strap on a bayonet and some webbing and run up and down the hall a few times?

Yes, I realize dumb questions like this == no leadership potential, I'v come to accept it,  so please use small words when explaining sir......... ???


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## KevinB (25 Aug 2005)

Blame me - all the other Patricia officers (other then ones here) and nearly all SNCO's hate me already   ;D


Britney - unfortunately a lot of "trials" are done by non combat arms troops or some NCO or Officer has already staked his career on it and it has become a sacred cow.  -- Look at the C7A2 feedback


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## paracowboy (25 Aug 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Britney - unfortunately a lot of "trials" are done by non combat arms troops or some NCO or Officer has already staked his career on it and it has become a sacred cow.   -- Look at the C7A2 feedback


or, even when they do ask us to run trials, they have already decided what they are going to buy, and twist our feedback to suit their agenda.
3 Weeks in Benning running around, dodging woodpecker trees (if you've been there you know what I'm talking about), wearing the most ridiculous gizmos, and none of it mattered in the least.


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## geo (25 Aug 2005)

VP1, VP2 and VP3 will be - VP1, VP2 and VP3.......

WRT the scabbard "hunk of junk"....
does anyone know if an UCR has gone out yet?


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## KevinB (25 Aug 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> wearing the most ridiculous gizmos, and none of it mattered in the least.



















They are not ridiculous  ;D

   I mean every Bde commander and above wants to feel they are right there with the troops (but safetly out of danger) so the troop simply need to carry 50lbs of extra kit to make them feel part of the battle  :


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## Krazy-P (25 Aug 2005)

who is the guy with the ridiculous rucksack thingy on?  looks like a mcfarlane type?


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## KevinB (25 Aug 2005)

problem is its not a ruck -- Its part of the sat map...


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## Jay4th (26 Aug 2005)

Supposed to get my new bayonet on monday .
(checks in the mail, I wont c*m in your mouth and helos are on the way)
Probably gonna stay in my locker on account of the serial #  
Laser, surefire, m203 all strapped to my muzzle, add a bayonet and I can' lift it. May get some mileage opening my pay statements. Seriously though, it must be mounted in the fashion of Paracowboy.
Have all the Old crusty people who cant accept that shipped to the 2nd.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Aug 2005)

"Send all the Old crusty people who cant accept that shipped to the 2nd."
And what pray tell do you mean by the above.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Aug 2005)

BS with regards to equipment trials I would like to think that some of it could be streamlined by taking lessons from our allies and equipment we may be considering (ie Hummer, LUVW, rail systems, NVG's etc).  This way we could weed out some of the equipment with glaring deficiencies.  Let them do most of the leg work.


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## Jay4th (26 Aug 2005)

^-^Post edited for clarity. All rigid conformists to the 2nd. I am currently working on a proposal that may see function and practicality of kit overcome the need to conform... In the 1st BN. But that is a story for another thread. Thanks to MJP for all his help.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Aug 2005)

And why would we in the Second want all the dinosaurs?


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## KevinB (26 Aug 2005)

Your doing well with them so far  ;D


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## Infanteer (26 Aug 2005)

Easy gents.


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## Franko (26 Aug 2005)

Well I'll weigh in here.....

So far I've personaly seen 2 broken here in theater...right at the loop for the wire cutter pivot.

Seems to me they aren't made too robust....or the previous owners abused them.

My .02 worth.

Regards


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## paracowboy (26 Aug 2005)

there shouldn't have* been * previous owners. They should be brand, spankin' new.


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## Franko (26 Aug 2005)

Well they were turned in to the QM...so obviously the owners relinquished them to get them replaced.

Methinks you need another cup of coffee   

Regards


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## baboon6 (26 Aug 2005)

You'll like this one Kev. I'm reading a book about the Brit's 1 Para in Iraq and the official kit list (reproduced as an appendix) actually says "webbing/fighting order_ of choice_". (the items that have to go into it _are_ specifed)


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## paracowboy (26 Aug 2005)

Franko said:
			
		

> Well they were turned in to the QM...so obviously the owners relinquished them to get them replaced.
> 
> Methinks you need another cup of coffee
> 
> Regards


gotcha. I'd never heard a CQ or QM refer to a 'previous owner'. I thought you meant that these had been...you know where I'm goin'.
I'm a dumb@ss.


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## GO!!! (26 Aug 2005)

Further to the acquisitions process deficiencies;

Some Major from Ottawa comes to 3VP to ask us for input on the TRIAL TV and cbts.

We tell him the TV needs to be modular for Support Wpn gunners, that it needs larger pouches and double mag carriage capacity. We are told to sum up, the CF will not design webbing around a light Bn.

We tell him that you can't reach any of the pockets on the shirt whilst wearing a frag vest - and suggested that the chest pockets be moved to the arms. We are told that "you don't wear a frag vest all of the time, so I don't see what the issue is"

We tell him that a C9 gunner cannot carry two canteens and 2 boxes of ammo - he says there are'nt enough C9 gunners to make it "worthwhile"

He sends us snowshoes with plastic buckles that break when frozen - we are now stuck with the old ones - even though we SPECIFICALLY stated that snowshoes must have metal buckles.

I fantasize about beating that major about the head with his clipboard......


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## MJP (27 Aug 2005)

Hmmp sounds like our run ins with CTS......

"what do you mean end-user driven?"  
"Your using it wrong" (in reference to the new WWB and their tendency to slip on ice)

Til they take the politics out of acquisitions....we'll always have POS equipment thrusted upon us and told to make it work.


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Aug 2005)

GO I was about to say that after your conversation its up to the senior leadership and officers to set them straight at the mess, but I have learned over time (surprisingly I might add) that the senior NCO's and officers to tell them the same things the troops do (more or less) and get the same song and dance.


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## COBRA-6 (28 Aug 2005)

+1 on the frog straps being too loose, noticed that right away.

And yes each bayonet is serialized, right on the blade. I guess they want to contol them to the same level as firearms, not sure why, seems like more needless admin to me.  

Pics to follow.


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## 2FERSapper (29 Aug 2005)

the problems im experiance with my bayonet scabbard are something almost everyone ive talked to over here is experianceing with it. the crappy knives themselves seem to be limited to small numbers and i cant speak to the effectiveness of the wirecutters on it but id be willing to bet that it wont hold up.....on the same note ive been throwning mine(did i say throwing i ment um dropping) at anything wooden any chance i get just to see how it holds up and aso b/c i dont want to mess up ,my actual good knife that sits on my belt. Overall i think they had a good idea...took the russian ak bayonet idea which is a solid knife....,the problem is they cut corners...no big surprise there...


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Aug 2005)

Whew  Thank god for hunger! ;D


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## Michael OLeary (29 Aug 2005)

2FERSapper said:
			
		

> the problems im experiance with my bayonet scabbard are something almost everyone ive talked to over here is experianceing with it. the crappy knives themselves seem to be limited to small numbers and i cant speak to the effectiveness of the wirecutters on it but id be willing to bet that it wont hold up.....on the same note ive been throwning mine(did i say throwing i ment um dropping) at anything wooden any chance i get just to see how it holds up and aso b/c i dont want to mess up ,my actual good knife that sits on my belt. Overall i think they had a good idea...took the russian ak bayonet idea which is a solid knife....,*the problem is they cut corners...no big surprise there...in case you didnt no this somethying like 80 or 90% of the people who work at the drdc are people who have been acused of wrong doing with something of monatary value....so basicly we have abunch of people of questionable previous service at units or postings in the cf who are now in control of a even bigger buget and are meeting with manufacting companies deciding which companies get the contract and your wondering why we get sub standard kit...probly b/c kick backs are invovled...oh  wait thats already happened and come to lite on more than one occasion....theres the problem with our stuff insted of all the staff in r&d being posted there for excelling only afew are posting postions...the rest are temp postings while the indidviuals case is inve4stigated...and while that long process is going on...they are in control of massive amounts of power and money*....i gota go eat just got back from afew long days....signing out from the sandbox



2FERSapper, those are some pretty heavyweight accusations, and applied with a broad brush. Can you point us to any supporting evidence before others simply accept your comments as fact?


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## KevinB (29 Aug 2005)

Man even I despise at lot of the NDHQ procurement / DLR / Soldier Systems types - but I would NEVER state that they are all crooks - maybe a few - and some just dumb, others have retired on active duty and just don't care - other are desperately trying despite lack of money and apathy elsewhere.



*edit for spelling (despise not despite)


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Aug 2005)

I could swear I just heard a toilet flush


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## 2FERSapper (29 Aug 2005)

i modifiyed my comment....i dont actully have my normal comp here to quote from the memo i saw afew yrs ago...i retract my statement b/c i cant give the specfic examples nescarry to make that kind of comment...sorry bout that
cheers


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Aug 2005)

Now you just got to get Mr O'Leary to edit his post where he quoted yours


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## COBRA-6 (30 Aug 2005)

Okay as promised...


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## 1feral1 (30 Aug 2005)

Great pics! Thanks.

Wes


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## KevinB (30 Aug 2005)

Your forced to centre mount it?


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## COBRA-6 (30 Aug 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Your forced to centre mount it?



I haven't played around with it yet, but I think so. I don't like it where it is now, but I drive around in a SUV, having it mounted behind one of the large pockets on the TV would get in the way.


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## paracowboy (30 Aug 2005)

don't mount it behind the utility pouch on the TV, mount it horizontally *above* the pouch. It presents a cross-draw and is convenient as hell, but also gets it out of the way. Give it a try. It works beautifully for me.


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## Scoobie Newbie (30 Aug 2005)

Of course Kev.   Come on over to Jurassic Park someday.   I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be no confusing 1 and 2 VP in Oct. :'(


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## Bomber (30 Aug 2005)

Can you pop a picture of the bayonet mounted horizontally?


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## COBRA-6 (30 Aug 2005)

Okay, I mounted it above the left side pouch, thanks paracowboy! It attached easily and seems very secure there, and I can still access my utility pouch...  next step is to try it out driving, but it doesn't look like it will be a problem...

Bomber, pic will follow...


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## paracowboy (30 Aug 2005)

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> next step is to try it out driving, but it doesn't look like it will be a problem...


I didn't have a problem, but then I wasn't driving for 8 hours with a full cbt load. If it don't work, you can publicly call me a dumb@ss, and I will apologize.


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## sapper07 (30 Aug 2005)

So does anyone know when or what the scale of issue is on this new bayonet?


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## silentbutdeadly (30 Aug 2005)

but hey i know whos not getting it, TF 1-06 because theres a shortage already and i am sure wwe can all guess who has them and who doesn't............ :threat:


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## KevinB (30 Aug 2005)

Why on earth woudl the 031's need a bayonet


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## Scoobie Newbie (30 Aug 2005)

Kev weren't you the one that argued against a heavy lumbering knife?


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## KevinB (31 Aug 2005)

Hey I dont like them -- but I always wonder why the 031 trade gets stuff last.

 It always seems to be SVC BN types first...


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## COBRA-6 (31 Aug 2005)

Okay, here it is...


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## Bomber (31 Aug 2005)

Dig that picture, mine has just been showed its new home.

If you wanted to be really creative, you could mount your two extra pouches right behind the pouch you have on there, one on each side, and they would be under the bayonet, you need to use your Gerber to get the webbing threaded on, but once it is on, it ain't moving, and you effectively double your load carrying ability.


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## GO!!! (31 Aug 2005)

Bomber said:
			
		

> Dig that picture, mine has just been showed its new home.
> 
> If you wanted to be really creative, you could mount your two extra pouches right behind the pouch you have on there, one on each side, and they would be under the bayonet, you need to use your Gerber to get the webbing threaded on, but once it is on, it ain't moving, and you effectively double your load carrying ability.



My new bayonet is going there too...-the minute I get it issued.

The pouches on the back is a good idea, unfortunately, it is not conducive to carrying a rucksack, even if they are empty, or sitting in a vehicle (heresy!!). Your best bet is to put them on the bottom of the pouches on the tacvest, opening to the front, and tie them down to your legs with the soft elastic stuff that the control slings are made of. I did this with both canteen carriers - it worked pretty well, but in (or on) the small pack is still the best idea.


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## DannyBoy (7 Sep 2005)

Those new bayonets are awesome, its a great idea that each individual soldier will be able to cut wire with his pig sticker


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Sep 2005)

..... with his "pig sticker"?


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## paracowboy (7 Sep 2005)

who wants sticky pigs?


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## KevinB (7 Sep 2005)

You know - I never understood the idea of adding a wirecutter to the sheath of the bayonet.

So I sneak up to the wire (cuz people NEVER cover obstancles by fire right  : ) I slowly tussle with the bayonet scabbard / frog to remove it from my kit - remove the bayonet - insert the choppy part from the scabbard to the frog [get jacked for tacking so long] get stiched by the enemy full of 7.62x54R and die...

 Anyway I always though a small set of side cutting pliers was a little easier to bring along IF I thought I might be cutting wire (other wise I will use my SOG tool if I need to cut it and did not expect too)


 I mean yeah, It looks mean as hell - I guess that is important too...  ;D


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## 48Highlander (7 Sep 2005)

I always figgured the gerber was good enough to cut wire.

Guess the enemy musta gotten sneaky and started using uber-reinforced-wire-mark-3.


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## BKells (7 Sep 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> ..... with his "pig sticker"?



Be nice.


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## JimmyPeeOn (9 Sep 2005)

It could be handy when building defences, not necessarily breaching them.

Cheers,
AB


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## George Wallace (9 Sep 2005)

Actually, someone alluded to the fact that it really is kind of useless, in the fact that you fasten the scabbard to your TV or webbing or whatever, and if you ever have to use it to cut wire.....then you will have to unfasten it from your TV in order to attach it to the blade....rather a waste of time in a crunch...don't you think?

I've always found if I carry a set of Dags in my pocket, it was much easier and faster.  (Also came in handy with my Laundry Bag plastic ties)


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## 1feral1 (9 Sep 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Actually, someone alluded to the fact that it really is kind of useless, in the fact that you fasten the scabbard to your TV or webbing or whatever, and if you ever have to use it to cut wire.....then you will have to unfasten it from your TV in order to attach it to the blade....rather a waste of time in a crunch...don't you think?



Very true, the original Eickhorn KCB design has a frog, similar to the US M8A1 style, but it has a QD (its fast) so the scabbard can be removed, then with the bayonet fixed to the rifle (for better leverage), the wire is then cut. Even with this though, look where bayonets ar carried on generic webbing, at the rear, which again means its difficult to put off and on, unless you use the buddy system, or removed your webbing, so it may be impractical anyways, and looked on as simply a selling feature by the manufacturer. Who knows?
I'll post a pic of the scabbard once I get my cam fixed in a few days.


Cheers,

Wes


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## KevinB (15 Sep 2005)

Picture provided by Bomber.


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