# Canadian Forces portrayal in news media



## Maritime_Matt (27 Jul 2005)

Kind of an info capsule on the Forces. CF for civillians, perhaps? Also lots of interesting links. Seems to further perpetuate the myth of "Canada as peace-keeper"- although being a mouthpiece for the gov't, I suppose this is to be expected.

--

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/


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## x-grunt (27 Jul 2005)

Maritime_Matt said:
			
		

> Seems to further perpetuate the myth of "Canada as peace-keeper"- although being a mouthpiece for the gov't, I suppose this is to be expected.



Thanks for the link. Actually, I didn't see peacekeeping mentioned in the body of the article at all, just some links to old articles in the sidebar.
Something I have noticed recently is that many news reports seem to be talking about the military as a fighting force more and more.


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## McG (27 Jul 2005)

x-grunt said:
			
		

> many news reports seem to be talking about the military as a fighting force more and more.


If true, this would be positive.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (27 Jul 2005)

I agree that the tone is changing, but there is a long way to go yet.  We are still getting it from our own minister.  See the link to my post in the "peacekeeper" forum:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32840/post-244611.html#msg244611


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## -rb (27 Jul 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> I agree that the tone is changing, but there is a long way to go yet.   We are still getting it from our own minister.   See the link to my post in the "peacekeeper" forum:
> 
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32840/post-244611.html#msg244611



I agree 100% with our own talking bear. 

A lot of positive commentary has come out in the media recently and IMHO has been directly related to some of Hillier's comments regarding the forces. My only fear is that it won't be long before the liberal gov't decides that he may become too much of a liability in an upcoming election and try and put the muzzle on him. It would be a shame as I've seen some good articles/commentary showing their support for the CF and not sugar coating the realities that troops may face in Op Archer and future missions abroad.

cheers.


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## McG (27 Jul 2005)

yukon said:
			
		

> A lot of positive commentary has come out in the media recently and IMHO has been directly related to some of Hillier's comments regarding the forces.


A testament to why we should use honest language when talking to the public/media.


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## pbi (29 Jul 2005)

MCG said:
			
		

> A testament to why we should use honest language when talking to the public/media.



Amen to that. Hopefully, Gen Hillier's Transformation will bring in its wake a change of orientation of the whole CF away from the all-too prevalent bureaucratic "job-ism" that permeates too many people (at various levels) and toward operational readiness. This could give new impetus to things such as more demandig training, better and more rigorous PT standards, and  streamlined procurement and construction systems. But, above all, I hope it leads to an atmosphere in which the CF (and particularly the Army) speaks honestly and professionally to the public. IMHO we have started that already with some outstanding comments by a few senior leaders over the last couple of years. Now, let's make an effort to eradicate the use of the word "peace-keeper" and replace it with "soldier"-maybe the media and the public will get the message.

Cheers.


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## Maritime_Matt (30 Jul 2005)

Speaking of Gen. Hillier, there is a no less than two full pages devoted to his background + career in today's Globe and Mail, including the cover of the "Focus" section. I'd post the link, but it requires a subscription. Very interesting indeed. Perhaps part of a larger campaign to raise the public profile of the CF ?


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## Jungle (30 Jul 2005)

yukon said:
			
		

> My only fear is that it won't be long before the liberal gov't decides that he may become too much of a liability in an upcoming election and try and put the muzzle on him.


They had the chance to do it this last week. The govt could have pushed Gen Hillier aside to gain one more MP in it's (minority) caucus: Carolyn Parrish. Instead, they left her out of the Party and publicly gave their support for the CDS, including being in agreement with his description of the terrorists. This kind of exposure, and govt support, hasn't happened in decades in Canada.
I'd like to nominate Gen Hillier for a CDS Commendation, to start with...


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## Edward Campbell (30 Jul 2005)

A somewhat lengthy but good biography â â€œ more an introduction to Canadians, I think â â€œ of Gen Rick Hiller occupies the front page of today's _Globe and Mail_ *Focus* section.  I have copied it below.


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## Edward Campbell (30 Jul 2005)

'HE'S ARMOURED, BUT HE'S NOT THICK'

Some Canadians went on the attack this month when Gen. Rick Hillier said the Canadian army's job is to 'kill' the 'detestable murderers and scumbags' who commit terrorism. But his defenders in Parliament and the armed forces see the brash commander, who rose from humble Newfoundland roots, as a fresh breed of 'tell it like it is' leader the country needs to face the realities of a new world. DANIEL LEBLANC reports from Ottawa and SHAWNA RICHER from Campbellton, Nfld.

By DANIEL LEBLANC AND SHAWNA RICHER 

Saturday, July 30, 2005 
Updated at 1:02 PM EDT

With a report from Katherine Harding in Edmonton

Ottawa and Campbellton, Nfld. -- If Rick Hillier's life wasn't changed forever on that day in May, 2004, his feeling that terrorists are dangerous "scumbags" was certainly confirmed.

The general who would soon become the head of the Canadian Armed Forces was then in charge of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, with 6,400 troops from around the world under his command. One day he decided to visit his Norwegian soldiers, and tour their area of responsibility in war-torn Kabul.

He had intended to return to their camp with them, but the Scandinavians dropped him off at his headquarters instead. The amiable Newfoundland-born general shook hands with them all, lastly gunner Tommy Roedningsby. Fifteen minutes later, Mr. Roedningsby was dead, hit by a grenade launched by a Taliban supporter. If he had followed the original plan, Gen. Hillier would have been in the same open vehicle.

That death, the only one in Gen. Hillier's time at ISAF, helped shape his world view. In an interview this week, he recalled, "The guy who was killed was my gunner." Two days later, a Norwegian commander came to relay the last words Mr. Roedningsby spoke to his fellow soldiers, referring to the general himself: "There goes a leader I could follow."

Gen. Hillier fell into a rare silence. "You talk about something that will be with me forever," he said.

The incident, along with his time in the former Yugoslavia in the days of ethnic cleansing, helps explain why Gen. Hillier wants the military he was appointed to lead five months ago to become a more forceful presence in the world.

While he has long been a military star, Rick Hillier hit the national stage only this month with his tough talk about an upcoming mission to Afghanistan. He set off a tempest by saying of the opponents his soldiers face, "These are detestable murderers and scumbags, I'll tell you that right up front. They detest our freedoms, they detest our society, they detest our liberties."

The new Chief of the Defence Staff was accused of echoing the martial rhetoric of U.S. President George W. Bush, and betraying Canadian traditions. "We are also not a country that is going to easily throw away 100 years of peacekeeping reputation and noble reputation in the world by a testosterone-filled general, and I think somebody should put a clamp on his mouth," independent MP Carolyn Parrish said this week.

Gen. Hillier answered that he had to deliver a strong message, and that he would continue to explain what his troops are doing -- which hasn't been peacekeeping for more than 10 years. Canadians, he said, have to wake up to the new reality.

Not long ago, this country's top officers most often spent their foreign deployments in Cold War Germany, coming back with decorations widely ridiculed as "beer-and-bratwurst medals." Gen. Hillier's experience in the post-Cold War and then post-9/11 world gives him another perspective.

There is only a seven-year span between the 50-year-old Gen. Hillier and his former army boss, 57-year-old Mike Jeffery, but a world of a difference. "General Hillier represents a new breed of general officer, who has a fresh approach," said Mr. Jeffery, who retired as the chief of the land staff in 2003. 

"My generation and my superiors grew up very much in the Cold War. . . . He really grew up with a much more practical view of operations."

And that view is: Forget the image of the peacekeeping Canadian blue beret. Gen. Hillier wants to convey the sense that Canadian soldiers are in the thick of things, even if he offends some of the public by saying that the Number 1 duty of his troops is to "be able to kill people."

"We're not cold-hearted warriors who do things in a ruthless manner," he added this week, "but we can . . . and will do what's necessary. What we're always trying to do is make life better for people."

The enemy now, he said, is a "ball of snakes" made up of terrorists, drug traffickers and other rogue elements. Canadian Forces are still structured to fight a rival state. Along with the expansion of Canada's military budget from $13-billion this year to $19-billion in 2010, they will have to adapt to the new threat.

That's why Gen. Hillier supported a decision two years ago to get rid of tanks and replace them with smaller, more mobile vehicles known as Strykers. It was no doubt a tough choice, since Gen. Hillier first showed his stuff leading a tank squadron in the 1980s, as a member of the Royal Canadian Dragoons. But as another Dragoon points out, Gen. Hillier has climbed atop the hierarchy with his leadership skills and his own adaptability.

"He's not narrow-minded," said Clive Addy, a retired major-general. "He's armoured, but he's not thick."

Rick Hillier has a small-town ordinariness. He is obviously fit, but he doesn't have the face of a brawler. His only distinguishing characteristic is his razor-thin mustache, and the constant glimmer in the eyes. He greets visitors to his office in his green summer uniform, going past the military mementos to a picture of his beloved grandson Jack. His shoulders seem light, but his handshake is strong.

He betrays his Newfoundland roots when he speaks, often leaving out the "h" out of words like "huge." He is not an overtly formal man, but someone who's able to shoot off an endless series of jokes about beer, hockey and himself. During the official ceremony that saw him take over the Forces, he even joked about Governor-General Adrienne Clarkson's expense accounts. 

But behind the smile, he is also a canny salesman who can talk seriously about such things as the need for the Canadian Forces to go from a "staff-matrix approach to a command-centric approach." 

His plans are heavily centred on the land component of the Forces, with the goal of protecting Canada and North America first, and helping out failed overseas states second. He wants to streamline all operations in the country under one umbrella called Canada Command, removing responsibilities from other officers in Ottawa. And he wants to create new positions for a commander of Canada's missions abroad as well as for the commando-style special forces.

Gen. Hillier also wants to reform everything from recruitment to procurement, all the while growing the numbers of full-time and reserve troops by 8,000.

Just 49 when he became Chief of Defence Staff in February, Gen. Hillier is the second-youngest officer ever to rise to the top of the Canadian Forces. His first overseas posting was to Germany in the mid-1980s, followed by tours of duty in the former Yugoslavia, Bosnia and Afghanistan. He was not first in line for the position in terms of military hierarchy. But his ability to propose a concrete vision of the future caught the attention of Defence Minister Bill Graham, and helped convince Prime Minister Paul Martin to promote him.

Gen. Hillier has said he never planned his rapid rise through the Forces, but his former colleagues said it was long obvious he knew what it took to get the top job. Master Corporal Rick Bullied drove Gen. Hillier around the base in Petawawa, Ont., in 1997-98. Within months, he was sure Gen. Hillier would eventually graduate from one-star to four-star general.

"He's a fast mover. Even as a driver, I said to numerous people, 'This guy is going to be the next CDS.' And there he is," Cpl. Bullied said.

He had the right touch with the soldiers, said Cpl. Bullied, cancelling weekend training to ensure troops could spend as much time as possible with their families. He was equally at home helping civilian populations during the 1998 ice storm or conducting war games.

Even on Gen. Hillier's first posting in Lahr, Germany, where he led a tank squadron of 120, his superior Bob Meating saw great promise in his ability to motivate people and to generate ideas. "I prefer people that I have trouble reining in than people I have to prod," said Mr. Meating, who retired as a major-general. "He was one of the guys I had to rein in. He talked a thousand miles a minute."

Mr. Meating recalls Gen. Hillier as a smart leader who outshone the "enemies" in training sessions with other western militaries: "I remember in a war-fighting scenario in Germany, his squadron was being put through its paces and he did such a fine job, the brigade commander of the day questioned whether Hillier had cheated."

Gen. Hillier had avoided the danger zones on the field and went to the outer reaches of the approved territory to avoid fire. "He did a flanking movement through the deepest, darkest jungles you could find, and came out the other side. People believed he had gone out of bounds, and my boss of the day said, 'Fire him, he's cheated.' It wasn't so," Mr. Meating said.

But Gen. Hillier's next overseas deployment placed him in a whole new world. He and his troops were shot at continuously in the Balkans in the mid-1990s. There was no peace to maintain in that part of the world, he said, thinking back to a day in the hills near Sarajevo. "All of a sudden I hear a whoomp. . . whoomp. . . whoomp in the distance, and a few minutes later we're diving in the back of an [armoured vehicle]. The mortar rounds were targeted directly at us, they'd seen us there," he said.

After serving in the former Yugoslavia in 1995 and Bosnia in 2000, he went to Afghanistan as the commander of the multinational force. He smoked cigarillos in his days in Kabul, where he had a simple approach: Find the good guys and help them out, and then go after the bad guys and take them out.

He decided to hire an American as his chief of staff, to liaise with the U.S. troops all over Afghanistan. Les Fuller, a native of Georgia, was jokingly provided with a Newfoundland dictionary to help him understand his animated new boss.

Mr. Fuller said Gen. Hillier kept up morale in those trying times by regularly invoking "rule 9" at the end of meetings -- which meant somebody in the room had to crack a joke before the meeting could disband. "He used his humour to keep people on an even keel. When things got hot and tense, he would tell a story to break the tension."

At the same time, Mr. Fuller said, there were confrontations with his bosses in NATO, who rejected Gen. Hillier's efforts to expand beyond the traditional security mission. "I don't think you'd find anybody that was in Kabul who would say, 'I didn't really like him,' " Mr. Fuller said, "although there are people in Belgium that didn't like him because he wouldn't let them - excuse the expression - sit on their ass."

One other thing that stands out in Gen. Hillier's CV is his two-year stint as a deputy commander of a large U.S. army division in Texas from 1998 to 2000. It was a temporary transfer between the two countries, to give a senior Canadian officer a unique learning experience inside the world's only superpower.

As deputy commander of the Third Armoured Corps, he had 57,000 soldiers -- a military unit roughly the size of the Canadian Forces. The posting gave Gen. Hillier a clear insight into the workings of the world's biggest military, but he insists he has no intention of importing the U.S. style. "We've approached everything from a Canada-first attitude, and what's right for 32 million Canadians," he told reporters this month.

Gen. Hillier's roots couldn't be much more Canadian. He began sending earnest letters to the Canadian Forces at age 7 from the house in Campbellton, Nfld., where he lived with his parents Myrtle and Jack and his five sisters. The military wrote back in an effort to recruit him, unaware of his age.

"As soon as he could write he was writing to them," his mother said in an interview. "We had piles of pamphlets and literature around. He would see ads in the papers and write away for things. . . . How he got the idea for it I don't know. I've often wondered that myself."

His late father, however, did not want to see his only son join the military. Jack was still heartbroken over a favourite uncle - John Clark - who had been killed during the First World War at age 19. "[Jack] associated the Armed Forces with that," said Myrtle Hillier, now 82. "But we left it to all our children to choose their own careers. And as soon as [Rick] was old enough to join, he went off to the military."

Even Gen. Hillier said he doesn't know why he started reading military history at such a young age. But his imagination just went wild at the thought of enlisting in the army. "I knew right from the start what I wanted to be."

Campbellton is a town of about 600 in the heart of central Newfoundland's rugged Exploits Valley. Overlooking a sheltered harbour on Notre Dame Bay and famous for the birch, spruce and white pine that once made it a bustling lumbering community, the town remains densely cocooned in a lush, green quiet about an hour from the Trans-Canada Highway.

Myrtle was teaching in a one-room schoolhouse in Campbellton when she met her future husband, a heavy-duty mechanic. She gave up working in the classroom when they began having children. "With Jack having to go away to work, if I'd continued to work probably the children wouldn't have done as well as they have," she said.

Like so many fathers in Newfoundland, Jack left for long stretches to find work. But father and son remained close, and the family lived comfortably. "He got home as much as he could. We didn't have phones here in those days," Ms. Hillier said. "His dad was really family oriented."

At the same time, there is little doubt that being surrounded by five sisters and raised by a strong mother shaped Canada's top soldier more than anything else. "Back in 1985, 1986, 1987, I remember all the debate and the emotion around whether women could do the job, whether they could be in the combat arms, whether they were robust enough and tough enough," Gen. Hillier said. "I knew way back then we were barking up the wrong tree.

"I grew up in a family with five sisters and a mother who guided me for life, and four of those sisters were older than I was and every single day, I got beaten up by one of them all through my childhood. Were they robust enough or tough enough to do what we need done? Absolutely."

The former schoolteacher's house was crammed with books, and Rick, like his sisters, could read before he began first grade, and devoured all the printed matter he could get his hands on. Yet he was in many ways a typical teenage boy, who would get together with friends to drink beer and shoot a .22 around town (a practice he's quick to say he wouldn't condone today). 

He played hockey when the inner harbour froze over or on homemade neighbourhood rinks, with equipment his parents got at Sears, but he signals on his résumé that sports weren't always kind to him. "General Hillier enjoys most recreational pursuits but, in particular, runs slowly, plays hockey poorly and golfs not well at all," the document says.

The family attended the Salvation Army Church, and young Rick played the horn in the church band, and also dabbled on the piano and accordion. "It brought him out in public more than he would have been," Ms. Hillier said.

Quiet and modest, he frequently won honours at school, but come awards night it would be a surprise to his parents in the audience. He left home at 17 to attend Memorial University in St. John's and graduated in 1975 with a bachelor of sciences degree. His cousin, Clyde Hillier, said: "Growing up he was one of those fellows you always knew was going to go somewhere. . . . He was a little smarter, a little quicker than everyone else. You knew he was going places."

His mother believes his Newfoundland upbringing made young Rick a natural for the army. "People from outport Newfoundland lived their lives in the woods and on the sea in rugged activities and fit into the armed forces quite easily."

Gen. Hillier met his wife, Joyce, when she was teaching in nearby Comfort Cove. They eventually had two sons, Christopher and Stephen. They all remain in Ottawa, where Joyce is now a financial adviser at the downtown Bank of Montreal. Gen. Hillier's eyes glimmer when he mentions Christopher's baby Jack -- named, of course, for his great-grandfather.

"There's a lot of credit due [Joyce]," Myrtle Hillier said. "She's spent a lot of time alone so he could go on all these missions. . . . She's done a great job on the boys. And she's so good to me."

Gen. Hillier said his wife sees every one of the medals on his uniform as a symbol of the time he spent away to earn them.

His mother still lives in Newfoundland, in the same tidy, white, clapboard house where she raised her family with Jack, who passed away in 1997 after suffering from cancer. 

While his father was in and out of hospital in St. John's over several years, Gen. Hillier spent a long stretch in Bosnia, but phoned every day. When Jack died two days after Christmas, Gen. Hillier was devastated. When he left to coordinate relief for the ferocious ice storm that battered Ontario and Quebec that winter, his mother appreciated the distraction. "It gave him something that filled up his time completely," she said.

"I like to think I inherited certain characteristics from my dad," Gen. Hillier added, "and I hope that one of those is that hard work won't necessarily kill you."

The general is widely regarded as a proud Newfoundlander. After he was promoted, the local weekly paper, the Lewisporte Pilot, ran a cartoon depicting him in uniform and deciding his first job would be to take on Globe columnist Margaret Wente over a column she wrote criticizing the province. Ms. Hillier still laughs over the clipping.

She visits her son in Ottawa several times a year, and most summers he comes home, where he focuses on family, though he might sneak in a few rounds of golf. Otherwise, Ms. Hillier couldn't remember a time when her son wasn't hard at work. He usually calls at least once a week, but she hadn't heard from him yet this week -- always a sign to her that he is swamped.

After five months in his job, Gen. Hillier often muses aloud, "I wish I could clone myself 1,000 times."

Gen. Hillier likes to say he entered the Canadian Forces to be a soldier and nothing else. He loves people in uniform, never missing an opportunity to chat them up about their hometowns or their recent deployments. 

Even now that he is at the top, he sometimes seems to wish he were back at the bottom, at least for a few hours. He recently spent four hours training with soldiers to perform the time-honoured changing of the guard on Parliament Hill. He put on the red suit and bear-skin hat, revelling in the hot sun and getting screamed at by junior officers.

But Mr. Meating, Gen. Hillier's former superior in Germany, noted that his former officer spent just enough time in the National Defence Headquarters in Ottawa in the mid-1990s to learn the way up.

"He worked in the inner sanctums in Ottawa . . . which a lot of people in the army hadn't done," Mr. Meating said. "He realized where the power was, and he moved around from job to job, and when he went down to the States, he kept an eye on it. . . . I won't say he preconditioned things for himself, he just knew if he ever got that opportunity how he was going to deal with it."

A senior federal official said the Canadian Forces were "dying for leadership" and Gen. Hillier was the person to fill that void. While even his supporters were surprised by the vigour of his recent comments, they heralded a new tone in the Canadian Forces, to match promises of more money and troops. 

Politicians had been struggling for a year to put meat on an international policy statement in which the government expressed a desire to increase Canada's relevance in the world's most volatile countries. Now, suddenly, the country's top military official is articulating Canada's foreign policy in a clearer - and more controversial - way than any elected official. 

Many in the Forces are relieved to finally hear a general who "says it like it is," after silently suffering through decades of budget cuts and demoralizing episodes such as the Somalia scandal. The contrast is sharp between him and his predecessor, Ray Henault, who was seen in the Forces as more chairman than leader.

Former army head Mr. Jeffery said the Forces were "long overdue" for a change in style. "The Canadian military and the senior officers in particular, for a variety of reasons, became grey, they moved into the background. I don't think that's healthy in a democracy," he said.

Lewis MacKenzie, the last Canadian general who was known as a blunt talker, said he is happy to see Gen. Hillier pull off the tough talk without being reined back in. And now, Mr. MacKenzie said, there is no turning back. "If he changed his style, everybody would notice and he would lose credibility."

Gen. Hillier, for his part, joked, "I'm not smart enough to be anybody else but myself."

While some members of the Forces actually wanted to take part of the war in Iraq, they now take solace in Canada's decision to go on the offensive against the insurgents in Afghanistan. Yet Mr. Jeffery said the biggest roadblocks to Gen. Hillier's plans remain within the military. He is launching ambitious reforms without having undertaken reviews or consultations to ensure that everyone is buying in. 

"He has articulated a vision for the Canadian Forces that is different than the past. While I have no belief there is not agreement to that, I know the institution well enough to know there are probably those who are not fully embracing that perspective," Mr. Jeffery said.

Corporal Jeff LaBrash has already been on two missions to Bosnia and is now in Afghanistan. As he was leaving Edmonton this week, he said this new mission is "a little scarier because there is a lot more going on." He said Gen. Hillier is "well-spoken," but he's reserving judgment about the big things that are now in the works.

"We'll have to see," the 37-year-old father of two said. "A lot of people promise a lot of things and until you see the results and the follow through, well, only then you can get a real impression."

Daniel Leblanc is a member of The Globe's parliamentary bureau, and Shawna Richer of the Atlantic Canada bureau. .

In his own words

'Canadians don't realize how great their soldiers are. They can find the bad guys and take them out, and they can find the good guys and support them.' -- April 13, 2004 

'Our relationship with the Americans is close. It will continue to be such. And we work with them on an hourly, daily basis . . . on this continent and around the rest of the world.' -- Feb. 13, 2005 

'We have to . . . start treating Canada as an operational theatre.' -- March 3, 2005

'Our population has to look at us and see themselves in us.' -- April 14, 2005, on recruiting visible minorities

'You've got to be seen as capable and seen as too big of a bully to take on.' -- May 30, 2005

'These are detestable murderers and scumbags. . . . ' -- July 14, 2005, referring to perpetrators of terrorist attacks

'I see the Canadian population right now, in general, waking up from a bit of a long slumber.' -- July 22, 2005

'We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people' -- July 22, 2005

'I'm not offended at all. I have a job to do, and I'm concentrated on doing that job.' -- July 26, 2006, responding to critics of his tough talk

© Copyright 2005 Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved. ​


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## Maritime_Matt (4 Aug 2005)

Found this v. interesting- a rundown through CTV News about CF involvement in Afghanistan.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1123179692508_118588892


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## Big Foot (4 Aug 2005)

Simply awesome article. Ed. Shows just why Gen. Hillier is where he is.


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (6 Aug 2005)

Not to bad mouth past CDS's or officers, but his attitude and tone remind me of General's like Tommy Franks (in a positive way). Firm and straight to the point and not about themselves. I'm only a corporal, but that is rare in our military.


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## Armymedic (6 Aug 2005)

It is a refreshing thing to hear from our top general what it is we are really supposed to do.


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## RangerRay (6 Aug 2005)

The way I see it, the Liberals appointing Gen. Hillier is win-win for them.

If we have a successful mission in Afghanistan and things go well because of General Hillier's leadership, it makes the Liberals look good.

If we take casualties, the Liberals will blame General Hillier's aggressive remarks and sack him, replacing him with another bureaucrat in uniform.

Here's hoping things go well...


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (7 Aug 2005)

All I ever hear lately is positive comments about Gen. Hillier from all ranks, that is a good thing. Yes? Canadians have it easy, and in their (the reason I say their, I've been to Afghanistan, Canadians have it easy) easy lives they expect the perfect world. When they see our soldiers deploy they expect that the troops are going to have it easy. Then when there are casualties or dare I say it, fatalities, they're in shock and awe! Who isn't. We have a CDS who tell's it like it is, he is doing his part. If anything it's the politicians who should set the Canadians mind set back to the reality of our job, and if **** goes wrong let them take the fall. Some Jean would never have done.


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## Edward Campbell (11 Aug 2005)

This could go in a number of threads on army.ca but I think it belongs here because it addresses Canadians' _opinions_ about the CF and the media too often 'makes' (rather than reflects) opinion.

From todays' _Globe and Mail:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050811.wxcosmokey11/BNStory/National/



Why we're saluting Smokey  
*By J.L. GRANATSTEIN * 

Thursday, August 11, 2005 
Updated at 3:22 AM EDT

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Crowds lined up outside the Parliament Buildings on Tuesday to pay tribute to Smokey Smith, winner of the Victoria Cross, lying in state in the Hall of Honour. Private Ernest Alvia Smith of the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada earned the Commonwealth's highest decoration for his extraordinary bravery in driving off German tanks, self-propelled guns, and soldiers in an action on the Savio River in northern Italy in October, 1944. The last of Canada's VC winners, he was 91.

Every word in that paragraph is true, every fact extraordinary. What is very unusual is that the government authorized the solemn, public rites for Smokey Smith usually reserved for deceased former prime ministers. One of Prime Minister Paul Martin's aides observed that this was done because "he was the last surviving Victoria Cross winner, and it means something to Canadians." The lineups suggested that he was right.

Twenty years ago, the death of a war hero would not have been so marked. There would have been a military funeral, and those attending would have been few, aside from family and friends. But something has changed in Canada.

It all started with the 1992 CBC-TV series called The Valour and the Horror, a dramatization in three episodes of significant Canadian events of the Second World War. Whether the series was factual or not, whether it was good television or bad, veterans believed it insulted them and their dead comrades. A huge outcry developed, a Senate committee held hearings, the CBC ran internal investigations, and a class action lawsuit eventually was tossed out of court. 

The shouting made clear there was more than simply a television show at stake. It was, in fact, about memory and remembrance, about how a nation recalls those who fought its battles. In the vets' eyes, Canada had largely forgotten them; if it remembered them at all, they said, pointing at the CBC, it slagged them.

The CBC made amends with its extraordinary coverage of the 50th anniversaries of D-Day and V-E Day in 1994 and 1995. For days, the national network devoted hours to the events and film footage of the war. Canadian schools may not teach much about the Second World War, but school kids, their parents and their grandparents, many of them veterans who had not talked about their war, got a full dose. What did you do in the war, Grandpa? children asked, 

and for once they began to get an answer.

It was surely not coincidence that attendance at Remembrance Day ceremonies began to increase at the National War Memorial in Ottawa and across the country. Remembrance Day somehow turned into Remembrance Week, with veterans' pilgrimages overseas and massive coverage on television each year. Canada's greatest generation was aging quickly, and Canadians seemed to want to pay tribute while some were still able to receive their due.

Then the Royal Canadian Legion's long campaign to place a Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at the War Memorial came to fruition in May, 2000, and the splendid ceremony reached into every home, where Governor-General Adrienne Clarkson's memorable words resonated. The tomb, simple but meaningful, quickly became a place for every visitor to Ottawa to see.

At the same time, the government was deciding to finance a new Canadian War Museum in Ottawa. The superb military-history museum opened on the 60th anniversary of V-E Day, May 8, 2005. The exhibits, most unusually in this nation that sometimes thinks that all it has ever done is peacekeeping, deal bluntly with the brutalities of war and the stresses and terrors of peace-support missions. 

The war museum memorializes Canada's military past; as for the future, in the February, 2005, federal budget, the government pledged some $13-billion to begin rebuilding today's Canadian Forces. Most of the money is slated for delivery in 2009-10, but no government in decades has made even paper promises for defence.

Just before Smokey Smith's death, the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Rick Hillier, spoke out about Canada's role in the war on terror. There were "murderers and scumbags" out there, and the Canadian Forces must "be able to kill people." There was immediate praise for Gen. Hillier's tough talk from politicians -- even NDP Leader Jack Layton! -- and shocked outrage from a few who were stunned that a Canadian could say such things. Surprisingly, Prime Minister Martin did not waver. "I support General Hillier," he said. "The world has changed . . . and Canada is going to take its responsibilities." Certainly, something has changed. Prime minister Jean Chrétien had stayed out of the Iraq war in 2003 and Mr. Martin had refused to join the United States in ballistic-missile defence. But, suddenly, there were big promises of funds for military renewal.

Perhaps the government has been reading the opinion polls, which, for several years, have consistently demonstrated that Canadians want their military to be stronger and better equipped. Perhaps the commemorations and ceremonies of the last decade have played their role. Perhaps the sacrifices made by Smokey Smith's generation have stirred even Canada's politicians.

So they should. Canadians died in battle at Hong Kong, Dieppe, at sea, and in the air because their governments had ignored the military before 1939. No government wants that blot on its record, and maybe, just maybe, the honours offered to Ernest Alvia Smith, VC, are an indication that Canada's government and people are drawing lessons from their past and preparing for the difficult years ahead.

J. L. Granatstein, a fellow of the Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute, is the author of Who Killed the Canadian Military?

© Copyright 2005 Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.​

Click to expand...


My only observation is that the crowd was overwhelmingly military - mostly serving but many, many veterans (young and old) too.  There were precious few civilians, especially young civilians; made me a bit sad - that and the fact that Smith's death was second to the death of US journalist (and Canadian celebrity) Peter Jennings._


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## Maritime_Matt (11 Aug 2005)

Interesting article posted today at CBC webpage- a soldier's first-hand account Afghanistan. Have also noticed that the Globe has been covering the mission to Khandahar pretty much every day. 

--

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_storring/20050809.html

--

RUSSELL D STORRING:
A surprise oasis

CBC News Viewpoint | August 9, 2005 | More from Russell D. Storring

Russell Storring is a Master Corporal with the Canadian army. He has been a Signals Operator for the 12 years he has been in the military. He enjoys hockey, soccer, reading and spending time with his young family.

--

On my first trip out the gate of our compound into downtown Kabul, I head out with the reconnaissance squadron: Maj. Andrew Atherton, Master Cpl. Steve Slade and Cpl. Pete Spital. We are headed out to Kabul International Airport and the British camp, Camp Souter, for a few hours, so Atherton, the officer commanding, can meet some of his counterparts. 

I take my position as rear sentry in the back of the Coyote and strap my headset on. Although I have only known most of the reconnaissance squadron troops since May, I feel we have bonded well, and I am confident about our ability to deal with the unexpected. 

As we head out of our compound, Slade mentions that a few hundred metres up the road is where a suicide bomber killed Cpl. Jamie Murphy in January 2004. I had already left Afghanistan when Murphy, who was from Newfoundland and Labrador, was killed, but I realize that if they can attack us that close to the relative security of our camp, they can attack us anywhere. Vigilance is the key, but even that sometimes isn't enough. 

As we reach the downtown core, I notice that the smells of garbage, burning wood, animals, raw sewage and filth, so familiar from my last tour here, are still present, and try as I might to ignore them, they still penetrate the headscarf, called a shemagh, that I have covering my face. As we drive past a few fields of crops, I smell what can only be the smell of human feces, and I shudder at the thought of it being used as fertilizer. 

Everywhere the city has changed. Streets that I had driven down in January 2004 are now unrecognizable due to the construction. New buildings have sprung up everywhere, and even those that were destroyed are under repair â â€œ new windows, doors and signs where there were none, and markets that have doubled or tripled in size. 

I spot cellphone stores, pharmacies, bridal shops and computer stores. Soft drink, water and ice cream vendors now are a common sight spread out along the crowded streets. 

Even the Kabul city police and the Afghan National Army spread out through the city are all dressed in their respective uniforms, right down to their boots. At least now they have a more professional look and air about them, and I see them actively getting involved in the traffic nightmares that abound; they've even established a few checkpoints to search for weapons and contraband. 

As Spital dodges and weaves through traffic, I realize that one of the things that is worse since we were here last is the traffic. At least a million people have moved into Kabul due to the relative security and job opportunities (though still somewhat limited), and traffic, both vehicular and pedestrian, has made many roads a navigational nightmare. Although the population has increased, the city's infrastructure has not kept up. 

The trip is thankfully uneventful. We arrive back at Camp Julien around 3 p.m., and I find out I will be going out again on Friday. I fill my small pack with clothes and a few other items as we are supposed to spend the night, and give Nathalie a quick call, telling her not to worry about me if I can't call for the next couple of days. I know my wife, and I know she will worry until I get a chance to call her again. 

At 6 a.m. Friday we depart. I'm rear sentry in an armoured vehicle driven by Cpl. Chris Keith, and commanded by Warrant Officer Dan Hoyt. In front is the liaison officer's armoured vehicle and to our rear is the officer commanding's vehicle. Almost all of us have been on tour either here in Afghanistan, or in Bosnia or places in Africa, so I know that despite the area being potentially hostile, we have many years of combined experience. 

As soon as we leave Kabul and head for the mountains, the paved road abruptly ends. And for the next three hours we drive along mountainous switchbacks, raising towering plumes of dust. The roads are covered by a fine powder like dirt, which blows into the air at the slightest touch. 

Within minutes of heading up the mountains, we are completely covered in dirt, head to toe, our eyes, ears and mouths. You smell dirt, taste dirt and see nothing but dirt as it clings to your eyelashes and eyes. 

At best, probably half of the winding roads are the same width as what we would be used to in Canada, with the remaining half smaller; there are no guardrails. Any slight error and it's hundreds of metres down to the valley floor. 

We pass tractor-trailers, cars, buses and the odd donkey- or horse-pulled cart. Entrepreneurs have set up gas stations, and water and pop stands at some of the most unlikely locations. Vehicles are pulled over throughout the long trip for fixing tires or engine components. 

On the other side of the mountains, we link up with a unit from NATO's International Security Assistance Force, and then head off on our own reconnaissance of the area. The only places that are green with vegetation are on the valley floor a few hundred metres from the river, and everything else is sparse brown grass, dirt and rocks. We can't escape the dust and the heat. 

For lunch, we head down into a small valley and I am amazed at what I see before me: nestled on the shores of a lake are a marvellously built cottage with servant quarters, a scenic lookout and a boat launch, all overlooking a beautiful aqua-coloured lake. We look around in amazement, wondering if the seclusion is the reason the whole area is uninhabited. 

The cottage is empty, but in decent shape, complete with balconies and outside serving area. It's odd seeing such a beautiful place where everything else is so inhospitable. 

During lunch, Slade and Hoyt entertain us by firing rocks into the lake with their golf clubs, as they don't have any golf balls. Before leaving the calmness of the cottage, we all get a group picture overlooking the lake. 

On the trip back to Camp Julien, we watch in horror as one of our armoured vehicles hits a pothole near the edge of the road and rolls into the ditch and onto its roof. As Hoyt radios Camp Julien and I scramble out the back of my vehicle, I can't help but remember that the last time I had to help after a rollover was at the tragic death of Sapper Mary Beth Short in 2002. 

To our relief, the whole crew is helped out of the overturned vehicle, walking away unscathed. The rest of our time is spent waiting for the ambulance and wrecker, and directing traffic. I can't help but think how lucky the whole crew was and I am relieved that what could have been a tragic accident has only ended up in vehicle damage. 

Though I don't profess to be religious person, that evening after we all return to camp, covered in dirt, banged up from the ride and tired from the long day on the road, I say a little prayer, thankful that we were all watched over today.


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## MdB (11 Aug 2005)

I've been reading his last chronicles, but still read all of them. I have to say that this is pretty moving. It's by far the greatest account of what a modern canadian soldier is. Excluding books of course, that's not comparable anyway.

THIS helps building a good image of the CF. I wish there would more initiative of that kind.


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## Medic36Canada (17 Aug 2005)

Bravo Zulu to the CDS its about time someone in charge told it like it is. We are an army not a bunch of swarmy policemen. The left wing in canada needs to stay away from the military they are just going to weaken it.


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## Edward Campbell (19 Aug 2005)

Here is the text of an E-mail I sent, just minutes ago, to Edward Greenspon, editor-in-chief of the _Globe and Mail_:



> Dear Sir;
> 
> I usually write to compliment you and the Globe's writers.  Not today.
> 
> ...



The above was in response to this, from today's _Globe and Mail_ at: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050819/DOCTORS19/TPNational/Canada 

From: * Letting the health-care genie out of the bottle*
By: André Picard


> Finally, Canadians themselves, most notably the elite (including Prime Minister Paul Martin and corporate CEOs) have breached the social covenant by getting their care in the private, for-profit system, and by creating laws that give privileged treatment to patients with workers compensation claims, the military and the RCMP.


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## Cloud Cover (19 Aug 2005)

Well sir, it seems that Globe will have a pretty clear understanding of your thoughts on the matter. Personally, I find the Globe newsprint to be to waxy for the bird cage, but it works fine for lining the puppy kennel.


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## Jungle (19 Aug 2005)

Edward Campbell said:
			
		

> Here is the text of an E-mail I sent, just minutes ago, to Edward Greenspon, editor-in-chief of the _Globe and Mail_:


Should you receive a reply from the editors of the Globe & Mail, would you please post it here ??

Just curious...


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## Edward Campbell (22 Aug 2005)

Jungle said:
			
		

> Should you receive a reply from the editors of the Globe & Mail, would you please post it here ??
> 
> Just curious...



Here it is:



> Mr. Campbell:
> 
> Thank you for your note.
> 
> ...



My response will be that I want her to pass it to Picard, for his edification.


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## Maritime_Matt (29 Aug 2005)

There's an interesting profile of some reservists on training excercises in today's Toronto Star. All together, a very positive depiction. 

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1125268507150&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

--

*Reservists love their double lives*


BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH
OTTAWA BUREAU

CFB PETAWAWAâ â€Most work days, you can find John Hill on the 36th floor of BCE Place, overlooking Toronto's harbour, where he toils as a recruiter for Barrick Gold.

Jason Morische is at home in Toronto's courts, where he defends people accused of everything from fraud to impaired driving.

Adam Harmes is a self-described "left-wing economist" who lectures on international political economies. 

Waheed Obaidi, Jammie To and Thanuja Rukman are all getting ready to hit the books.

But last week they smeared on the camouflage paint, picked up a rifle and went to war â â€ in the wilds of central Ontario.

They all lead double lives, pursuing full-time careers or studies while also doing duty in Canada's army reserves.

"This is so much different from what I do during the day," Morische said.

Sipping coffee from a tin cup, dressed in green combat clothing with a C7 rifle slung over his shoulder, this 32-year-old army captain couldn't be farther from the downtown courts where he makes his living.

He joined the reserves in 1997, drawn by the physical and mental demands of army life. "I wanted to see if I could hack it," he said.

He was among 3,200 reservists from Ontario, including more than 400 from Greater Toronto, who gathered at this military base northwest of Ottawa for the biggest exercise of the year, dubbed Stalwart Guardian.

The exercise, which wrapped up yesterday, comes at a time when Canadian defence policy is putting greater emphasis on the reserves, with military brass looking to these part-time troops to take on a bigger role in overseas missions.

For reservists, this nine-day drill, which is costing $5 million, is a chance to put all those nights and weekends of training to the test.

"Some people join because they need a job. The outdoorsy types are here. 

"Some people want to serve ... their country," said Hill, who's the major in charge of Foxtrot company, about 126 soldiers.

The big appeal of the reserves, he said, is that the soldiers can maintain their involvement while pursuing a career.

"When you're younger, it's money, a part-time job.

"When you're older, you get more responsibility and it's good leadership training," Hill said.

Unlike reservists in the United States, Canada's part-time soldiers are not obligated to serve on missions. Going to places like Bosnia or Afghanistan is completely voluntary. 

That has prompted some grumbling from troops in the regular forces, who can be dispatched at any time to a global hot spot.

Still, there is fierce competition for the overseas duties open to reserves, even though it typically involves a nine-month commitment â â€ three months of training plus the six-month tour.

The Toronto Star spent two days in the bush with Hill's company, a unit comprising two Toronto-area regiments, the 48th Highlanders and Queen's Own Rifles, both based at the Moss Park armoury.

This is no easygoing summer camp. It's a gruelling slice of army life, with long days spent marching and drilling and short nights spent sleeping in the forest, sheltered by only a bivouac â â€ along with tough discipline imposed by senior soldiers.

The soldiers dine on military rations, and while the food has gotten better in recent years, it's still a far cry from a home-cooked meal.

"When you've been in the army a while, you get a better appreciation for the little things in life â â€ a hot meal, warm coffee, tea, a bed and sleep," chuckled Lt. Ben Lee, 21, who is studying history and political science at the University of Toronto.

One day last week, Hill's troops were given the tough task of capturing a bridge from enemy forces. It wasn't quite like A Bridge Too Far. But for these weekend warriors, it was real enough.

With the attack in full flight, the forest's serenity was shattered by staccato bursts of blanks fired from machine guns, the barked orders of commanders and loud bangs of explosives simulating artillery fire.

It was enough smoke and noise to do a Canada Day celebration proud. 

Pte. Andrew Kyron, a 22-year-old studying business administration at Humber College, got a harsh lesson in the military meaning of "strategy" and "objectives."

An umpire â â€ who decides which soldiers are "dead" and "injured" â â€ took him out of action during the initial assault. 

"He said I was standing up too long," Kyron said, clutching a red card that read: "Gun shot, left arm."

Cpl. Tony Scotta wasn't so lucky. The 14-year reserve veteran, who works as a civil engineer in Toronto designing commercial and industrial buildings, was nailed by an enemy sniper.

But Scotta was still able to boast that he took out an armoured vehicle with his Carl Kustav, a heavy anti-tank weapon.

And though his "life" had ended, Scotta was beaming as the machine guns fired all around him.

"Love it," he said, grinning. "The adventure, the camaraderie, learning about warfare."

Cpl. Thanuja Rukman, of Markham, made it across the bridge, blazing away with her C7 rifle, only to buy the farm on the other side.

Like many students, she initially joined the reserves for the money. It helped pay her tuition. 

"Here I am, four years later," said Rukman, a political science major at York University.

And while there are other ways to make money, "none are as much fun," she said, resting on the forest floor, propped up against a tree stump.

Pte. Jammie To, a health sciences student at the University of Waterloo, had the heavy task of slogging a bulky C6 machine gun.

But To's efforts paid off. The weapon, capable of spitting out 1,000 rounds a minute, kept enemy heads down during the attack.

"It's a completely different experience. Being a student, you sit around on your ass a lot," she said.

"My dad was surprised when I joined. He's proud that I've managed to stay in for so long."

Many of the young recruits acknowledged that they joined for the money â â€ a private's pay starts at $77.90 a day â â€ and the adventure. But many said a sense of duty and patriotism contributed to their decision as well.

"When I first joined, I was just in it for the pay. But now it means so much more, when it comes to brotherhood, serving your country, making friends," said Obaidi, 19. 

Born in Afghanistan and a speaker of Farsi, the young private says he was partly inspired to join this past spring by Canada's military commitment to his war-torn homeland. It's his dream to do a tour with Canadian troops now serving in Afghanistan.

He admits to having been a "goofball" in the past, but says a summer in the army has changed all that.

"You learn discipline; you become more mature," said Obaidi, who will be studying criminology at the University of Guelph in September.

The reserves, explained Brig. Gen. Gary O'Brien, are the "people's army."

"These soldiers are everything from lawyers to students to factory workers to white-collar workers ... You'll find almost every occupation is represented," said O'Brien, who is a reservist himself. Out of uniform, he's a manager with General Dynamics Land Systems Canada. 

"These are great Canadians. These are people who are willing to contribute a significant amount of time learning something very unpleasant like war fighting in order to protect their fellow citizens," O'Brien said.

The reserves may once have been considered "amateur" soldiers and poor cousins of the regular forces, he said, but they're taken seriously now.

"We've seen great improvements in our equipment; we've seen a new focus on our training and a new focus from senior leadership," said O'Brien, the officer conducting this week's drill.

And he said the reservists take the role seriously too â â€ and the potential risks that go with it.

"They are not playing at this. The soldiers that are here are focused on developing a real capability," O'Brien said.

"They're focused on making sure their training is relevant to protecting Canadians and to protect people around the world," he said.

It's perhaps a testament to their skills that 250 of the reservists taking part in this week's exercise are expected to volunteer to join Canada's dangerous duties in Afghanistan over the coming year.


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## the 48th regulator (29 Aug 2005)

A brilliant article,

Couldn't have picked a better regiment, and the fellow interviewed top notch, in fact Jason Morische is a member here!!

Should have plugged us, Will talk to him about that.

dileas

tess


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## patrick666 (29 Aug 2005)

I think he's the kick in the ass we needed... I don't know too much about him but that article definitely sums up his perspectives and I'd have to agree with 'em.. 

Cheers


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## Armymedic (29 Aug 2005)

Excellent article.


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## hayterowensound (29 Aug 2005)

that article makes me even more excited to get back in.


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## Ranman (1 Sep 2005)

Maritime_Matt said:
			
		

> Kind of an info capsule on the Forces. CF for civillians, perhaps? Also lots of interesting links. Seems to further perpetuate the myth of "Canada as peace-keeper"- although being a mouthpiece for the gov't, I suppose this is to be expected.
> 
> --
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/




As long as blue paint and rifles are cheap the Canadian Goverment will keep pulling the peace keeper con on the Canadian public.

The Canadian Goverment spends its money on one thing. To get re-elected.

When you live next door to a super power you can take a unethical advatage.


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## Edward Campbell (1 Sep 2005)

Notwithstanding the merits of Martin's argument re: sole source procurement in today's _Globe and Mail_, the tone of the comment is designed to stir up the loony left.  I suspect that _Redneck Rick_ will stick.

There is a near-perfect case for sole source for new Hercs and Chinooks (I have no technical opinion on the airplanes) based on cooperative logistics and (re)training.  The case for sole source for a SAR AC is much weaker.  I'll leave it to the folks in the Fixed wing SAE replacement forum - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23889.180.html - to sort out which aircraft is 'right' but if, big IF, Bombardier does want a piece of the action then they'll probably get it because  Québec contracts have, consistently, outgunned operational requirements since 1967.

The point of Martin's article, however, is not to attack the operational requirements, it is to discredit the military and defence spending.  He wants Martin, the other Martin, to follow Chrétien's popular path of starving the forces and being slightly anti-American; to pander, in other words, to the very large minority of Canadians who share those views.  Martin (the Globe's Martin) wants Martin (the one at 24 Susses Drive) to win a majority and he thinks that spending $6 billion on DND will hurt the Liberals.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050901.wxcomartin01/BNStory/National/


> The big-bang (one bidder) procurement plan
> 
> BY LAWRENCE MARTIN
> 
> ...



CFN is a _consulting_ firm in Ottawa - _caveat lector_: a few of my friends work there, a couple (retired generals and ADMs) are pretty high up.  It is named after a retired ADM(Mat) (Crutchlow), a retired (AF Engineer) general (Friedel) and a retired DM of DND (Nixon); three clued in, exceptionally well connected guys who did (and the company still does) good work.  There is no doubt that the relationship between CFN and NDHQ is close, incestuous is probably not too strong a word.  The CFN guys have Access, with a capital A.

Martin, Lawrence Marin, is _plugged in_ too and this piece is a really well aimed shot at DND.  The counter-offensive has begun.


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## Infanteer (1 Sep 2005)

Wierd, the guy says Gen Hillier is a breath of fresh air, that the CF needs these aircraft in a bad way, and that the "take no prisoners - we know what we want" approach will save the taxpayer (and the military) a billion bucks, but he still shits on it with a "counteroffensive"?

Talk about letting the tail wag the dog.


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## George Wallace (1 Sep 2005)

He's just trying to please 'all' the people, 'all' the time, to sell papers...


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## Mr.PhatRat (24 Sep 2005)

In reference to the CBC Viewpoint articles, since they are still locked out you can find similiar articles now in the Ottawa Sun, and other interest articles in October of Esprit de Corps.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2005/09/16/pf-1219218.html
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2005/09/24/1233140-sun.html


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Sep 2005)

Bit of a shamless plug offering your articles up in the third person isn't it? :


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## Teddy Ruxpin (24 Sep 2005)

> and in October for Esprit de Corps



... and this _guarantees_ I won't be reading.  :


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## George Wallace (24 Sep 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Bit of a shamless plug offering your articles up in the third person isn't it? :



George says this could be a bad sign.   Perhaps he needs to see a 'Doc' right away?   Talking to oneself isn't too bad if under stress; it is when you start carrying on conversations with yourself that gets people really worried.    ;D


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## Mr.PhatRat (24 Sep 2005)

That third person offering was for people who didnt realize it was me !!  :threat:  And as for talking to myself, heck I do that all the time, dont you??


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## George Wallace (24 Sep 2005)

Mr.PhatRat said:
			
		

> .....   And as for talking to myself, heck I do that all the time, dont you??



 ;D  Could be the company you keep.   ;D


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## Mr.PhatRat (24 Sep 2005)

As for Esprit De Corps, you shouldn't hold a grudge.  It is actually a decent, current ops, history and information magazine.  Don't let things from the past discourage you from picking up an issue and possibly learning something new, or reminisce about Canada's past.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (24 Sep 2005)

MODERATOR INPUT

Lets keep any discussion on E of C or its publishers/writers above board . If you have criticism please attack the work FACTFULLY.

Thanks


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## Teddy Ruxpin (24 Sep 2005)

Bruce, you have no worries from this grumpy old bear. As soon as E de C comes up, I switch off.


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## Fishbone Jones (25 Sep 2005)

I can already hear the death rattle of this one.


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## armyvern (25 Sep 2005)

Yep...done like dinner.


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