# Advice for tough situation



## Treemoss (18 Apr 2014)

Hello hello

Yesterday I did my CFAT, TSD, drug, and medical testing. I passed my CFAT and was offered officer enrollment but I turned it down for the mean time since I was a little blindsided by the offer. All my other testing was clear, save for medical.. but I just need a note from an eye doc stating I'm good. Afterwards they said I should be selected to move on to the interview before mid May. To make things better, the weather was great and everything.... it was a great day all around 


Here's where it gets weird. On all my paperwork I put down that I was a currently working paramedic, I even told the recruiters and medical officer that.. and at the time, time being about 26 hours ago from now.. I was. I got home and my roommate gave me an RoE from my service stating I'd be fired for "refusing work", which was complete news to me. I called my boss up and asked what was going on and he said that he found out about me applying to the military and stated "You mess with me, you get the horns, have fun with your future endevor but enjoy your time jobless". This job was listed as one of my references, but luckily I had my crew partners be the people the military should call... since apparently there's policy that states that management can't give out references and blacklist employees who actively look for more work. It should also be noted this place isn't unionized


Here's the part I need advice with. I'm moving quick through the recruitment process and I feel I'll have a good shot at getting in before or in June. I realize that I will have to tell my RC of my now current job status, and explain what happened. Also until I find a new job I will have to go on unemployment, or pursue legal action against my former boss. Legal action would take a long time, and money and I worry that they will look at that as a financial burden. Will this new development have a significant impact on my application? Will unemployment look really unfavourable, despite me looking for work?


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## Flavus101 (18 Apr 2014)

I think the best advice anyone can give you is to talk with your recruiter. It does no good hearing advice from people on the internet who may or may not be qualified to give that advice and really do not know the whole story.

Best of luck though!


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## brihard (18 Apr 2014)

I don't see any reason that your unemployment should impact your application at this point.

The issue with your now former boss is a completely separate one, and one that warrants followup. You guys may not be unionized, but labour law still applies. You've mentioned being in Nfld before. Have a look at this:

http://www.gov.nl.ca/lra/faq/ls_termination.html

Long story short, *if* the facts are as you state them to be, it would appear your former boss may be in violation of Newfoundland employment law. The fact that it seems as if he's screwing you because you want to join the CF is a bit of a piss off on top of that. I would engage the formal complaint process.


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## ModlrMike (18 Apr 2014)

You absolutely need to follow this up. There is no guarantee that you will find employment with the CF in a timely manner. 


If all else fails, I'm sure there's a reporter there who would be more than willing to hear your story.


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## Treemoss (18 Apr 2014)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> You absolutely need to follow this up. There is no guarantee that you will find employment with the CF in a timely manner.
> 
> 
> If all else fails, I'm sure there's a reporter there who would be more than willing to hear your story.



No, I know, it's mostly just speculation and here-say from my file manager and the med tech there. The medical officer and me chatted for about an hour after my medical, and we seemed to jive pretty good so I'm hoping I set up a good impression with him. 

There will definetly be a follow up on this, I just don't want to deal with the extra aggrevation of being pulled into some court room with lawyers.



			
				Brihard said:
			
		

> I don't see any reason that your unemployment should impact your application at this point.
> 
> The issue with your now former boss is a completely separate one, and one that warrants followup. You guys may not be unionized, but labour law still applies. You've mentioned being in Nfld before. Have a look at this:
> 
> ...



I think it's more of a cherry on top of the cake. My roommate is doing the same thing but told my employer, and they won't allow him to do any more overtime because from what he was told it's "for people who are willing to stay". I also pulled an authoritative card last week to ensure patient and crew safety, which I can only guess cost the service some money.. so there's that. Nothing I should've been canned for though.


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## Kat Stevens (18 Apr 2014)

I read a book once about a guy who used an electronic thumb to hitch rides around the galaxy, and got picked up by a Vogon destructor ship.


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## legalrec (20 Apr 2014)

Just my  :2c:

As a preface, I am a lawyer in Ontario, but I have no information on employment law specifically (other litigation matters).  However, I suspect  you should be able to speak with someone for free.  Do a bit of research online for "wrongful termination" and "employment lawyer" in St. John.  I'll bet there are plenty of firms that will speak with you for free.  I cannot comment on this issue as I am not a member of the bar in Nova Scotia, but I would recommend speaking with someone out there.  Many litigation firms offer free consultations.  It should provide you with a gauge of whether the termination was lawful.  

Also, while I have no doubt you are an upstanding person, please be sure to be honest.  As a lawyer, I cannot tell you how unhelpful it is for people to withhold information or embellish stories.  If there is a previous conflict with your employer or something that may have been provoked by you, it is important to be completely forthright.  

All the best.

EDIT: Be honest at your interview.  Say that you were terminated for applying to the Canadian Forces.  You do not need to start litigation - you can simply talk to a lawyer to sort out your options.


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## Treemoss (20 Apr 2014)

LegalApp said:
			
		

> Just my  :2c:
> 
> As a preface, I am a lawyer in Ontario, but I have no information on employment law specifically (other litigation matters).  However, I suspect  you should be able to speak with someone for free.  Do a bit of research online for "wrongful termination" and "employment lawyer" in St. John.  I'll bet there are plenty of firms that will speak with you for free.  I cannot comment on this issue as I am not a member of the bar in Nova Scotia, but I would recommend speaking with someone out there.  Many litigation firms offer free consultations.  It should provide you with a gauge of whether the termination was lawful.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the advice. I've been quite honest about the entire thing with the Labour Board here, and soon Service Canada. One of the issues I face here is I am from out of province, and only am in this province for work. Starting legal action is a huge undertaking away from home heh. Another problem with that is the town I am, while boom as it is, is small so everyone knows everyones.. and the only lawyers in town represent my employer. 

With this current application going as well as it is so far, the added aggrevation of lawyers and money is a lot. It's enough I have to go to Service Canada and explain why they put down "Refusal of work" as a reason for termination.

But I appreciate your advice very much all the same .


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## mariomike (20 Apr 2014)

Treemoss said:
			
		

> It's enough I have to go to Service Canada and explain why they put down "Refusal of work" as a reason for termination.



Did you refuse a call?


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## ModlrMike (20 Apr 2014)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Did you refuse a call?



That was my question? 

Have you already refused work, or are you being terminated for refusing work you are yet to be scheduled for? I can understand the former, but the later is preposterous.


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## Treemoss (21 Apr 2014)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> That was my question?
> 
> Have you already refused work, or are you being terminated for refusing work you are yet to be scheduled for? I can understand the former, but the later is preposterous.





			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> Did you refuse a call?






Nope. I got called by my dispatch to do an 8 hour run, 1 hour from shift change. Now normally in cases like this we just switch off with another crew but for some reason this time it went all to hell. Because the call was a non-urgent intra-facility transfer, I arranged with my dispatch center that I would switch with another medic on another crew who was still working for another few days, so doing the run wouldn't be a huge hassle. I would then be switched on to that persons crew, working with their partner who was also going off the same time with me. Then come shift change we'd both go off and our replacements would take us off. I know it sounds complicating but it's very common practice on shift change days.. I myself have done that people.

So after all that, I went to the dispatch center to confirm everything... only to get yelled and swore at infront of everyone by my manager. I stood up for myself and told him to stop yelling at me infront of everyone, and if he wanted to say anything then we do it in his office. We headed over to his office but before even entering he turned around and exploded on me, telling me he'd explode on me if I didn't leave and do the run. I tried to calm him down and asked if we could just sit down and talk about the change. That's when he flipped off again infront of everyone and started shouting how only he comes up with solutions and ideas and how we(myself and the other medics) don't get to have ideas. I told him, whatever I would do the run but was going to submit an incident report about his behavior.

I went out into the bay and was talking to the other paramedics about what happened whil waiting for my partner to arrive at the base. Moments later, my manager came out and started yelling and swearing at me again, this time asking me why I haven't left yet or why I'm just standing around. Again I told him not to talk to me like that, also adding I'm allowed to go to a call without my partner. There was also several medics standing around. He told me **** off and walked away. Five minutes later I got a phone call from dispatch saying the call had been pushed for another time. I told them that I was going to go do it and was just waiting on my partner, but they insisted it was fine and not to worry about.

Next day, got hauled into the office, got yelled at and fired. I was called disgusting and soulless and uncompassionate by the manager and his lackey. The HR manager was there and just kept his head down. He later told me that he can't do anything, but agreed it was all BS. At another meeting, he said he couldn't hire me back cause he said he would look weak. SO basically, to sum up both meetings.... I'm soulless, disgusting, have no rights, and am being used as an example for the other employees.

TL;DR: No, I didn't refuse anything. 


EDIT: Forgot to add the part pertaining to the military. During my second meeting they asked what my plans for money and living would be. I told them I was still thinking stuff over and didn't plan anything out (didn't tell them I had applied to other jobs, let along had a military application going).  They said they could send me to work at a station 5 hours away from where I live as a "genorosity", because he said he "has a soft heart for young people and wants to see them succeed".. AKA, no legal ground to fire me. So I guess you can kind of consider this a rehire? I didn't want any more hassle in my life, so I agreed. A few days later I got called out about my military application(I'm assuming someone told them) and that don't need his genoristy and work annnnd *insert comment about horns, future endevors, and being jobless... here*.


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## mariomike (21 Apr 2014)

Treemoss said:
			
		

> Nope. I got called by my dispatch to do an 8 hour run, 1 hour from shift change. Now normally in cases like this we just switch off with another crew but for some reason this time it went all to hell. Because the call was a non-urgent intra-facility transfer, I arranged with my dispatch center that I would switch with another medic on another crew who was still working for another few days, so doing the run wouldn't be a huge hassle. I would then be switched on to that persons crew, working with their partner who was also going off the same time with me. Then come shift change we'd both go off and our replacements would take us off. I know it sounds complicating but it's very common practice on shift change days.. I myself have done that people.
> 
> So after all that, I went to the dispatch center to confirm everything... only to get yelled and swore at infront of everyone by my manager. I stood up for myself and told him to stop yelling at me infront of everyone, and if he wanted to say anything then we do it in his office. We headed over to his office but before even entering he turned around and exploded on me, telling me he'd explode on me if I didn't leave and do the run. I tried to calm him down and asked if we could just sit down and talk about the change. That's when he flipped off again infront of everyone and started shouting how only he comes up with solutions and ideas and how we(myself and the other medics) don't get to have ideas. I told him, whatever I would do the run but was going to submit an incident report about his behavior.
> 
> ...



We didn't do transfers where I worked, they were handled by private companies.

But, one thing the department would not tolerate was even questioning a call. End of Shift ( EOS ) OT was mandatory.

We had a union, so it was seldom a hanging offence. But, any crew that questioned a call would likely be suspended. Unless they were probies. They were gone.



			
				Treemoss said:
			
		

> I know it sounds complicating but it's very common practice on shift change days.



It does to me because I only worked 40 hours per week. But, I have heard in rural Canada of private services working 24 hour tours. 

"...only he comes up with solutions and ideas and how we(myself and the other medics) don't get to have ideas."

Boy, does that ever sound familiar!  ;D


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## Treemoss (21 Apr 2014)

mariomike said:
			
		

> We didn't do transfers where I worked, they were handled by private companies.
> 
> But, one thing the department would not tolerate was even questioning a call. End of Shift ( EOS ) OT was mandatory.
> 
> ...



Luckily for me I was well over my probation heh. Here I worked 7 days on 2 off 7 on 5 off, 24hour shifts.. and only getting paid for 8, and no OT.. it's a rough go out here. Also since I'm in a more rural part of the province, I was working for a large private service. It was definetely not a hangable offence, it was hardly even suspendable. This is why I miss Ontario lol. If it was an emergency transfer or an emergency call for something, I wouldn't have said a peep. But since it was a hospital to hospital EXTREMELY non-urgent run... the switch could've been done with no hassle. And again, in the end I didn't turn down the run hah.

:S You don't yell that infront of your employees is the big thing.


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## petercushing (21 Apr 2014)

Wow that guy sounds really rude. If I were you I'd try and get legal aid. Some places offer free legal consultation don't they? My manager at my job has been nothing but supportive for my future endeavors and just told me I had to let him know ASAP if I had a job offer for the Canadian Forces. He's also cheered me on through my application. Really unfortunate that your boss didn't feel the same way at all. I'm surprised he still has people working for him. You can't treat your employees like they are scum of the earth if they are the guys breaking their back for you and giving a 100%.


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## TCBF (21 Apr 2014)

Now that you don't work there, it is time to go on the attack. Start a website for abused former employees. The guy who yelled at you clearly has issues. Maybe he cheats on his wife? Has illegals cutting his grass? Likes to pick up teenage hookers? Get a couple of friends and energize some social justice.


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## Wezoin (21 Apr 2014)

Treemoss said:
			
		

> Hello hello
> 
> Yesterday I did my CFAT, TSD, drug, and medical testing. I passed my CFAT and was offered officer enrollment but I turned it down for the mean time since I was a little blindsided by the offer. All my other testing was clear, save for medical.. but I just need a note from an eye doc stating I'm good. Afterwards they said I should be selected to move on to the interview before mid May. To make things better, the weather was great and everything.... it was a great day all around
> 
> ...



I had a (somewhat) similar situation as my employer also had a no references policy.  My solution was to get a letter from my employer stating "*My Name* has worked for us as a *Job Title* from *Start Date* to *End Date*" and that was enough to satisfy my recruiter.  I think it also helped that my other previous employers had given strong references.  It is pretty common for employers to provide a letter like that at your request, see if you can get one.


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## Treemoss (21 Apr 2014)

It really doesn't make much rational sense. I'm pursuing EI right now as a precaution before jumping in to a legal battle with anymore. As for references, I just ended up getting 2 from my a couple of my coworkers who had been working there for a few years now. 


It's quite discouraging having to go through this kind of bull**** with employers


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## mariomike (21 Apr 2014)

Treemoss said:
			
		

> It's quite discouraging having to go through this kind of bull**** with employers



You said you went to rural Newfoundland from Ontario? Is the job situation that bleak in Ontario?

"This is why I miss Ontario lol."


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## Treemoss (21 Apr 2014)

mariomike said:
			
		

> You said you went to rural Newfoundland from Ontario? Is the job situation that bleak in Ontario?
> 
> "This is why I miss Ontario lol."



I graduated from paramedic back in 2013. I took up a chemical plant safety job and did that before moving out to Newfoundland to take a paramedic job. It's pretty bleak at the moment, but Ontario just did a big PCP hiring, but I felt I wasn't ready to apply for anything at home.  I also didn't want to deal with the possibility of 1-3 years of job hunting, working part-time pcp for 5-8 years and not having a life so I could get potential shifts, and then by age 35-40 have a full-spot.

Now though, I realize I know my stuff and got a great handle on my skills that would for sure pull me ahead of the pack. I still want to do the military though regardless, as it is a chance to see the world and help others. Also wouldn't mind the discipline heh.


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## mariomike (21 Apr 2014)

Treemoss said:
			
		

> I graduated from paramedic back in 2013. I took up a chemical plant safety job and did that before moving out to Newfoundland to take a paramedic job. It's pretty bleak at the moment, but Ontario just did a big PCP hiring, but I felt I wasn't ready to apply for anything at home.  I also didn't want to deal with the possibility of 1-3 years of job hunting, working part-time pcp for 5-8 years and not having a life so I could get potential shifts, and then by age 35-40 have a full-spot.



Thanks for that information, as I am not familiar with the out of town situation.

However, I can tell you that Toronto has never employed part-timers. Everyone works 20 twelve-hour shifts every six weeks. Your schedule, station and partner is permanent, and not subject to change. 

There is no bumping, and there has only been one re-bid in the last 40 years.



			
				Treemoss said:
			
		

> Now though, I realize I know my stuff and got a great handle on my skills that would for sure pull me ahead of the pack. I still want to do the military though regardless, as it is a chance to see the world and help others. Also wouldn't mind the discipline heh.



Good luck on your application to join the CF.


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## Treemoss (29 Apr 2014)

Figured I'd give a quick update. I ended up applying for EI, but got my job back. For the first week I was travelling around to different stations, sometimes 3 hours away, to do coverage. Then a service that's associated with my company heard about what happened and have taken me under their wing. I went from working in a crappy town of 5000 people doing mostly transfer.. to working in a town of >40,000 doing actual emergencies. I'm also located 20 minutes from the city. It's like being home again hah.


I SUPPOSE... things happen for a reason. Still applying to military though hah.


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## JoeDos (29 Apr 2014)

Treemoss said:
			
		

> Figured I'd give a quick update. I ended up applying for EI, but got my job back. For the first week I was travelling around to different stations, sometimes 3 hours away, to do coverage. Then a service that's associated with my company heard about what happened and have taken me under their wing. I went from working in a crappy town of 5000 people doing mostly transfer.. to working in a town of >40,000 doing actual emergencies. I'm also located 20 minutes from the city. It's like being home again hah.
> 
> 
> I SUPPOSE... things happen for a reason. Still applying to military though hah.



Glad to hear everything worked out!


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## Treemoss (29 Apr 2014)

AlphaBravo said:
			
		

> Glad to hear everything worked out!



For the better haha, the place I was full-time at before was just a hole... now I'm actually doing stuff which is nice.


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## legalrec (13 May 2014)

Treemoss said:
			
		

> Figured I'd give a quick update. I ended up applying for EI, but got my job back. For the first week I was travelling around to different stations, sometimes 3 hours away, to do coverage. Then a service that's associated with my company heard about what happened and have taken me under their wing. I went from working in a crappy town of 5000 people doing mostly transfer.. to working in a town of >40,000 doing actual emergencies. I'm also located 20 minutes from the city. It's like being home again hah.
> 
> 
> I SUPPOSE... things happen for a reason. Still applying to military though hah.



Glad that resolved without any further messiness.  Hopefully your CF application won't be put through any further unnecessary obstacles!


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## Treemoss (14 May 2014)

Haha thanks, unforunately I'm still getting the work around form them but.. work is work I suppose. 

I actually called them today and was on the phone with them for a good hour about my application. It was actually a pretty good conversation. I missed the May intake, but I was told that I should expect a phone call from them for the June/July intake for med techs. They are still getting my background check and PLAR done, but they assured me that once they get the ok from Halifax for next intake of Med Techs I'll be pulled in. So that's promising!


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