# Non-Issue Equipment



## Mountain_marc (24 Jun 2004)

Are we allowed to use non-issue gear in the CF? 

Like I have a pack that would obliterate a standard CF rucksack? It's already green and black. I'd have to paint a few straps and stitching although. 

Ok or no-no?

http://www.ospreypacks.com/c75.jpg


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## tacsit (24 Jun 2004)

Black is a big no no. It's a target indicator and will get you killed. Good luck getting that monster approved for wear. In any case I wouldn't advise you use such a pack for any combat arms role.The internal frame is not the problem, that's the most comfortable type of frame. Rather, that ruck has no external pockets to compartmentalize gear and does not have a good effecient way to carry a radio, jerry can, mortar rounds, etc. I'd say don't even worry about non-issue kit in the form of webbing or rucks until you're at your unit and done all your basic and trade training. I'm not going to comment on durability of that pack as I am not acquainted with it, but if you want to use non-issue rucks and the like, buy something that's designed to mil-spec and for the soldier's job; that pack is made for civilians and civilian tasks.


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## chrisf (24 Jun 2004)

Marc, where would you put snowshoes on it?


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## Noyon (24 Jun 2004)

Search this forum for a thread which tells you where you can go to get good military gear. Ive ordered a few items and have had absolutely no problem with any of them or with anyone hastling me about them. I would'nt use black gear though I'd recommend getting CADPAT.

In case your wondering, I recommend

www.wheelersonline.com (Canadian Peacekeeper, its all in canadian funds and its all good gear)
Hope this helps, good luck.


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## Mountain_marc (24 Jun 2004)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Marc, where would you put snowshoes on it?



You remove the little pack that's in the front and you strap the snowshoes there! Done it tons of times!


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## Firepower (24 Jun 2004)

You usually can wear SOME non-issue, Mil-spec kit, as long as you still have the issue stuff on. But forget it if you want to use that ruck, it's not designed at all for military(EDIT: You would be lucky to wear an after market mil-spec ruck also, it's one of those things that stand out to much). As mentioned there is no way you could fit a TCCCS system in side, an I couldn't get a good view of the straps, but I didn't see quick releases for them. An where is the valice strap on?

Military issue stuff guarentees everyone is at the same base level, an it _should_ be tested so the leaders know the capabilities an problems, if you carry that thing an it breaks in the field, who's going to be getting you the straps to fix it.

Yeah it would be cool if we were all special forces an could choose what ever gear we want....


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## Phillman (25 Jun 2004)

In my honest opinion, that bag looks like a pain in the butt if you need some thing at the bottom quick. With the issue ruck it doesnt take alot of time to unpack and repack it if you are in a hurry. But that bag looks like it may take a while to get to the bottom. Nevermind that it doesnt look to easy to strap on MG barrels, shovels, pick axes and all the other fun stuff.


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## 1feral1 (25 Jun 2004)

What do you do when a component breaks on it? You cant get a part from the QM can ya.

Mate stick to the issue 82 ptrn ruck or the old universal ruck C1.

Here non issue stuff like the US ALICE large are accepted as they can be got in AUSCAM. AUSCAM and OD are the only acceptable colours. As for myself, I use the CF 82 ptrn wire framed one, and its better than the ADF issue one by far, and if something gets torn or broke, you can comprimise from Aussie parts. The frame has already been welded a few times by our met-techs over the yrs. 

The 82 ptrn really handles the climate and terrain well. I have full confidence in it, no worries.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Matt_Fisher (25 Jun 2004)

You've got 3 options here...

The first:  Ditch the Osprey and use  the POS '82 pattern ruck issued to you and suffer through it...

The second:  Purchase a military oriented aftermarket pack, ie. Kifaru www.kifaru.net or something from Dropzone Tactical (Big Motherrucker) www.dropzonetactical.com or one of the packs featured at lightfighter www.lightfighter.com

The third:  Spray paint your Osprey OD green and use it.  Spray painting will not harm your pack at all and is a good and cheap way of militarizing alot of civvie non-tactical colored kit.


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## Firepower (25 Jun 2004)

What do I do ? Leave it in the back of the truck an take it out when we are done

All the stuff you named is Mil-Spec, an has been proven, an if you can wear that stuff then go ahead. Comfortable gear is always nice.

I think they will see(in this part of the army anyways) replacing your ruck is like me wanting to dump my webbing an use a RAV, sure it is better, but they will be p!5sed about it.





Oh an I tried to find info on the issue Auspack an the only site I could find was here, an they do not seem to like it much, going so far as saying it shouldn't be used in military service, is it really that bad?


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## Mountain_marc (25 Jun 2004)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> You've got 3 options here...
> 
> The first:   Ditch the Osprey and use   the POS '82 pattern ruck issued to you and suffer through it...
> 
> ...



Well, i'm not going to ditch the Osprey for one thing, i'll just keep using it for my many forays into the mountains so I'd just use the ones issued! 

All left now is to quit the cushy boring government job and sign up for the fun and rewarding government job!!


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## Bzzliteyr (25 Jun 2004)

I don't know if it's a whole lot of reservists or not responding, but I would never imagine anyone where I work getting away with anything BUT the standard military 82 or 64(?) pattern ruck.  I was at the "Centre D'Instruction du Secteur Quebec" on my PLQ this winter/spring and I did not see a single "hard core" Vandoo with anything but issued kit on.  Same goes for the units in 5 BDE. 12 years in and the only people I can see getting away with this kind of gear would be the reservists..  

I don't suggest you try to use anything different until you get to a unit, and even then, we'll be getting the nice Clothe the Soldier gear soon anyhow.  Be patient.


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## 1feral1 (28 Jun 2004)

If you want an Aussie Ruck as pictured in the above post. I have a new an unissued one here for ya. I need $95.00US foir it, and I'll bring it with me as I leave for Canada in a few days. I can mail it out from there.

PM me if you are keen.


Cheers,

Wes


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## strat0 (28 Jun 2004)

Don't waste your money on non-issue equipment unless it is something like gloves, toque or something you can wear under issue clothing/equipment. The policy in the CF is "no non-issue equipment is to be worn", if you are going into the combat arms you will not be able to use it. This policy is strictly enforced. As for a rucksack, definately not, you will have to use what ever the issue design is, the whole point is to get use to what is given to you and how to best wear it, if it goes N/S in the field you will have to have it exchanged, as well it is all part of the uniform, think what that word means - uniformity - all the same. One of the main concerns about soldiers buying kit as well is the cost, the Generals don't want soldiers to spend their money on kit that is supplied by the military.


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## Infanteer (28 Jun 2004)

Well, as authoritative as that sounds Strat0, we know that is not true, as I am sure anyone from 3VP can attest to....


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## strat0 (28 Jun 2004)

I can't speak for other trades, I know in the Armoured Corps it is enforced. You can get away with items that are hidden and things like gloves, etc when you are in the field.

I am a Tp WO and I have to enforce it.


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## tacsit (28 Jun 2004)

Strat0, with all due respect to one of your experience, I must disagree with your assessment and point of view. With regards to your point about non-issue kit beyond small pieces allowed, that really depends on the unit. As Infanteer stated there is a much relaxed policy towards non-issue kit in 3VP. As for your other point regarding uniformity... Have you ever heard the expression that no battle-ready unit has ever been ready for the parade square and vice versa? That is absolutely true. I think it is ludicrous to say to troops who are professional enough to want to spend their own hard-earned money on buying kit that will improve their combat efficiency that they're not allowed to due to the demands of uniformity. In my correspondences with a Maj. who was the OC cs coy., 3VP, fought in Astan, the benchmark that was set for the troops was that as long as the boots were green or black, load bearing kit was green or CADPAT, and the troops were unmistakably Canadian they could buy and use whatever non-issue kit their heart desires (I'm sure the officers still cast critical eye over such purchases merely for the purpose of ensuring that the kit would do the job required). Uniformity is important, I do not deny that. But if a soldier wants to spend money on a good ruck for example (such as the Brit PLCE bergan or even a Kifaru EMR), I say more power to him. He is recognizing that being a professional warrior and soldier means being willing to get kit that will make him more effective where it truly counts: in the field.

There are some arguments against my point of view, and I'll deal with them here. One is that if you give troops free reign they'll buy kit that doesn't do the job. To that I respond, your job as NCOs and as leaders is to inspect your soldiers and render a judgement as to what they're using. That's also a part of pre-combat or pre-deployment inspections. Another argument is that everybody needs to be uniform. I call on anybody to explain to me how, if you still look unmistakably Canadian in the field, some lack of uniformity will hurt you or make you less able to kill the enemy. For the third point I'll use an example from my unit. When I inquired about using chest rigs at my old unit, my pl. WO stated, "well, what if your webbing is back at the assembly area and one person is asked to get out an IMP from everybody? If we told everybody to put an IMP in their buttpack he knows where to get it." Now, of course I didn't call him on it in front of the platoon, but that was a weak response at best. Such decision are not to be made at the beginning of an FTX or combat operation. Rather they are to be incorporated into the unit TACSOP. Another counter to that argument is that a troop with a different LBE/vest, etc. can always tell the runner where to find his rat or volunteer himself to get it.

Look at some of the recent combat operations. I defy you to find a single picture of troops from 3VP, the Brits, or Yanks in Astan or the latter two in Iraq where you can find two soldiers who are wearing exactly the same thing. You will see different boots, different vests/chest rigs/lbe's, assault packs, rucks, etc. etc. The guidelines as stipulated by 3VP for their combat ops in Astan make perfect sense and there is truly not a single argument that can be made against giving your soldier's such latitude beyond impacting the TACSOP for load carriage (which so few units have anyway). Being a leader is not about enforcing rules which hamper the troops under your command. Being a leader means thinking both inside and outside the box in order to give your soldiers the best advantages possible so they can do their job of killing the enemy, and coming home safe. I look forward to your response.


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## Infanteer (28 Jun 2004)

Strat0, sorry if I come off as a prick, I know you are giving us the rules established by your chain.   I was trying to point out the fact that the rule on kit is never hard and fast.   Ultimately, the decision rests in the hands of the CO; however, I would say that the SNCO's, who stay with a unit for long periods of times, set the trend in what is acceptable and unacceptable.

As tacsit pointed out, a senior officer from OP Apollo has a post that has been kicked around these boards a few times relating to the outlook of 3VP in Afghanistan.   They were pretty permissive in what troops could wear, providing they looked Canadian.   I don't see anything wrong with that.   As well, the new Canadian kit coming online is pretty damn good, so I'm finding less and less reasons to look to aftermarket suppliers.

My only advice to troops, as a grunt with a bunch of aftermarket kit, is to make sure your issued stuff is in tip top condition and ready to go.   If you find you are not allowed to used stuff you buy, then your still good to go with the stuff the Queen issued.

PS: Here is a post I gave on an earlier thread regarding personal gear.

_Gucci kit (especially the big things) varies from unit to unit.   If you poke around the threads on this board, there is a really good post pertaining to 3 PPCLI's kit in operations in Afghanistan.   They were allowed to wear pretty much whatever they wanted in terms of Load Bearing Equipment, as long as it looked Canadian.   Some units are a little more anal-retentive, and small things like boots and stuff are for exercise only.   Take the time to get a feel for the unit before making a $1,000 order from Lightfighter.com.

My personal opinion.   Every soldier is going to have his or her personal preference on kit.   I don't understand the reason for Sergeant's Major going totally anal over silly things like an extra pouch on the webbing.   I have played around with the issue webbing (Which I prefer a million times to the crap-half-jacket thing) and modified it enough to get something I like.   Its green and its webbing, so what's the harm?

I would say on longer term stuff like overseas ops, if your going to bring some gucci item, try and bring the corresponding CF gear.   For example, I never wear my gortex jacket, but I brought overseas for times when it was required on parade, and the fact that the CQ wouldn't one-for-one exchange a piece of gucci kit that went south.

On the other hand, it is important to keep things within reason.   We had one unit (won't name names) show up to an ex wearing everything; black balaclavas, headbands, Woodland Pattern vests and odd coloured chest rigs.   The Platoon commander was even wearing black gaitors, despite the fact that it was rainless and sunny the entire weekend.   Needless to say these guys looked like a pack of wankers, and from what I could tell, their performance in the field wasn't much better.   There is something to be said about an overall impression of uniformity._


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## KevinB (28 Jun 2004)

: Thats why the Strats never get out of the boat....   ;D

Seriously on non issue eqpt it will depend on your unit, as we Pat's are pretty relaxed - while others are anal to a ridiculos degree

The '82 ruck is a POS no iff and or butts - no self respecting solider would use one for they cannto support the weight and equiptment required.   The '64 (Jump) rucks are a much more solid design - however they are not the end all be all - (thats the Kifaru EMR...) 

Several of us have been using the new USMC MARPAT rucks (copy of the CFP-90) with no problems from our chain of command 

As well 6 of us just got chest rigs made in CADPAT AR for the next trip...


Some other non standard stuff...














I am not trying to rub anyones face in it - just trying to show the fact that there is usually a lot of latitutde given when items of issues kit don't meet then needs of field troops


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## Infanteer (28 Jun 2004)

I like the piggyback system on that Kifaru.  Seems quite gucci.  Any word on what's going on with the Tease the Soldier Ruck?


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## tacsit (28 Jun 2004)

Kevin, good post. Few questions. Where'd you get the CADPAT AR chest rig and care to share pics? How do you have your 64 pattern ruck set up, any particular mods? Any pics of this USMC CFP-90 type ruck?

Also, for anybody interested, Mystery Ranch (www.mysteryranch.com) has come out with a new internal frame designed to integrate with the USGI ALICE pack called the NICE frame. From the reviews I've heard it's quite comfy. I'm right now in the process of sending down to Mystery Ranch a Drop Zone Tactical modular 64 pattern sack and a CF issue velise for them to attach to the frame, upon which time they'll ship it back up to me to T&E (I'll be posting my tests, thoughts, and pics on this board once I've gotten some hands on time with the design). I think that should make even the 82 pattern ruck (if you can fit it on there) very comfortable.


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## KevinB (29 Jun 2004)

I will post some pics of the ruck (USMC) tomorrow all my kit is at home now as well have to clean out our lockers at work when we go  : - and it is strewn all over hells half acre (and I am bumming from the election)

 My '64 has a MatTech done back pad / chest straps - a bag done by a guy at work and moddified by A&D Tactical of Calgary - A7A straps and a DZ large compression sack.  I lost interest in external frame rucks when down at the USMC Mountain Warfare School in 97 as I almost had my head decapitated with my '64 while attempting to decend a mountain 

 The Vests are a takeoff of an Arktis pattern with some locally designed mods by one of our guys - they were done up by Dave of A&D Tactical as well.


I think as soon as I bank enough of my Afghan coin I will spring for the Kifaru as some feedback I have gotten from friends using them is outstanding.

 Hopefully my RAV has come in then too...


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## Infanteer (29 Jun 2004)

Ohh...all this kit slut talk is getting me excited... :warstory:


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## Danjanou (29 Jun 2004)

Someone get Infanteer a Kleenex. :

Seriously I do see both sides of the argument. Like Strato I've had to enforce the whole non-issue kit thing whether I liked it or not. 

As a former CSM, I was along the lines of if it's green and you can show me it works then bring it (within reason). In fact if it really worked then lets try and get enough for everyone. Often trial and error decides if a piece of Gucci kit lasts more than one ex.

However it is often a unit thing. Just before I packed it in we got a new RSM. He was rather anal about the non-issue kit thing and seemed to be under the impression that the boonies were an extension of the parade square. As CSM I had to, reluctantly, enforce his rules. The man was really picky and even IIRC took offence at my non issue (black) gloves, in front of my company.


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## tacsit (29 Jun 2004)

Kevin, sprung for a RAV eh? You know every kit slut here's gonna be like Infanteer when they hear that  . To be honest, I'd love a Kifaru myself, but I can't justify spending $700 CDN on a ruck like that. Also, I prefer a ruck with numerous external pockets, and with a ruck the size of the EMR adding external pockets is, quite simply, overkill. Not to mention that PALS compatible pockets are freakin expensive these days. A few external pockets from Kifaru can run you over $100 USD quite easily. The reason I'm going with the NICE frame with 64 pattern sack and velise is that a.) I think that'd be found to be more acceptable by the kit nazis than something like a Kifaru and b.) the NICE frame pretty much is a nice comfy internal frame, and it's pretty cheap as well ($219 USD, then get a 64 pattern sack for relatively cheap and you're set), so if my ruck gets shot up, broken somehow, stolen, etc., I'm not out over $700 CDN. Does A&D tactical have a website? Looking forward to pics of your ruck bud.


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## strat0 (29 Jun 2004)

As I stated before:


			
				strat0 said:
			
		

> I can't speak for other trades, I know in the Armoured Corps it is enforced.



I'm not saying I agree with the policy but that is it. If CO's and RSM's give permission that's great. I can only speak for the Armoured Corps.

enough said from me.
Cheers


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## KevinB (29 Jun 2004)

strat0,

 I understand where you are coming from, however I have seen Armd Recce guys with some gucci kit too.

Like anything, the further you are out and away on your own the easier it is to employ common sense kit.



Tacsit - if my ruck gets shot up the least of my worries is that I just pissed away $700...


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## tacsit (29 Jun 2004)

Ok granted while on the two way range you won't be thinking much about that... but I garauntee that when things calm down you're gonna be kicking yourself  .


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## KevinB (29 Jun 2004)

MARPAT RUCK
With TACVEST and Hydration system





















It is very comfortable


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## KevinB (29 Jun 2004)

Argh - did not see the guntape on the bottom until the pic came out on here...
  anyway disregard that.  :-[


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## pvandoremalen (12 Jul 2004)

I agree the 82 style rucksack is not up to job. The frame is a joke it cracks under strain from combat loads. If you have to get a ruck make it a 64, most dudes use them and the Sgt. Major shouldn't have to much of a problem with a troop using them. I took mine to the riggers and they added more straps to mount water carriers on the sides of the main pack. We can't get away with Gucci packs like the ones you've all been talking about. 64S are simple and easy to use after replacing your retaining straps with A7A straps. I'm probably not telling anybody anything new here but I've seen way to many dudes carrying swat packs and everything under the sun. Good kit is always good but it shouldn't convert the appearance of your unit into a band of roving gypsies who just knocked off a surplus store.


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## KevinB (12 Jul 2004)

Light Infantry Soldier said:
			
		

> Good kit is always good but it shouldn't convert the appearance of your unit into a band of roving gypsies who just knocked off a surplus store.



 ;D


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## CF_Lifer (12 Jul 2004)

Personally, I've never had a problem with my '82 pack. I've used it in the dead of winter, -36, with a rather hefty load. We're talking upwards of 80lbs, and I've never really had a problem. I must admit, the frame is awfully flimsy, being made of the very thin metal wire. Although I cant really compare it to other packs, I've only ever used this one, and gucci civvie ones. The only thing I didn't like....was wearing it with webbing. Sometimes I didn't even take off the Butt Pack from the webbing, just emptied it and kept going. I'm sure the new Rucks will be an improvement....if we ever see them.

P.S - Smooth Gypsie remark


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## KevinB (13 Jul 2004)

CF_Lifer said:
			
		

> Personally, I've never had a problem with my '82 pack.


 :
Well I guess your that 1% --


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## MJP (13 Jul 2004)

Yea wait till you actually have to use the 82 for real military purposes.....then maybe come on back and tell us about how great it is.  Take it from the guys with the experience, the ruck is a POS.


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## Infanteer (13 Jul 2004)

> Personally, I've never had a problem with my '82 pack.



How can you be a "CF Lifer" with actual experience with the '82 pattern ruck when you are 17 and not even in the military?


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## Danjanou (13 Jul 2004)

Guys play nice with him. He's probably used the 82 pack a hundred zillion times playing nintentodJTF2sniper SEAL on his PS2, which makes him waay more qualified than us. ;D

CF lifer friendly piece of advice, watch and learn here and then contribute only when you have something relevant to add. We have no objections to 17 yr old kids interested in the Army and waiting to join up on the site per say. Hey we all were one at some time ourselves, and some of us even have 17 year old kids. Be honest with who you are here and you'll be in for a lot less grief.

Back to the topic at hand. The only thing I liked about the 82, was the bag, heavily modified with extra and better straps and heavy duty fast ex buckles, and married to my 64 pattern frame.


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## muskrat89 (13 Jul 2004)

All this talk of "packs" and "rucksacks".....   ???   Oh - are those the things you throw in the back of CPs and Gun-tractors?  Bruce - do you know?


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## Matt_Fisher (13 Jul 2004)

No Offence Muskrat, but that's exactly the kind of mentality why the Mortars should never have been put into Arty.  The lifestyle change of having to ditch the comfort of the gun-tractor and go to a spartan existence where you live out of what you carry, plus the mortar tube or the baseplate or the T&E mechanism and the sight and the ballistic computer, etc. is pretty foreign to someone that's never or hasn't been in that situation or bare-gones existence in the field.

When I was in the CFs I was armoured and there was a huuuge "I'm a blackhat and I just have to ride around the battlefield.  It's beneath me to ruck or patrol on foot.  If I wanted to do that I'd have gone infantry, etc" to the point where it severely limited our thinking and actions.  Basically we got fat and lazy.

Not to say that when you're in a situation where you can afford to be comfortable, you shouldn't, because that's just plain stupid.  However, always keep in mind that there may be times when you've got to live sparsely with wearing the same pair of combats for a week, washing socks in your canteen cup, living on 2 IMPs a day, etc.

It's pretty common for mortarmen in the Marines to do 20k ruck marches with a full ruck, plus their 81mm tube over their shoulder, Jesus crucifix style or baseplate or the associated other gear strapped to their ruck.


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## Firepower (13 Jul 2004)

Matt is right(somewhat), while Arty has always been in support of the other arms, this is going to place them in with the Infantry, Army units are all about standing out. Mortar platoon doesn't have the same ring as Gun Battery  . We don't have quite the luxury of the armoured, because we still have to do patrols an actually get out of the tractor to fire(ooh dirty).



I can just see Arty reserve units with mortars being asked to do alot of excercises for the reserve Infantry, because they don't need to sacrifice guys to do it. There is going to be a big demand that the arty guys may not be able to commit to.


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## pvandoremalen (13 Jul 2004)

I'm saying as a rule non issued kit should be green and or cadpat. For gloves and thermals green, brown, and black. So if your kit is luminesant with racing streaks down the sides and you want to wear your red biking gloves perhaps you should seek employment in the circus. For you people who don't have problems with the 82 start putting quad packs on it watch it buckle like the knees of a prom queen after a few drinks.


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## muskrat89 (13 Jul 2004)

LOL - Well, I was poking fun at what appears to be the other arms' perception of us. It was not meant to be truly indicitave of "my mentality". I did my share of ruck marches, and certainly don't envy those who truly do need to live out of their rucksack. Maybe we should have refused those cozy gun tractors (that were so convenient for hauling tools and ammunition around, too) and insisted we walk everywhere, lest we be admonished by our Brothers in Arms for being lazy      

All of that aside, when I first got in, the gun tractors were in a "wagon line", which was usually quite a little jaunt away, and not practical to live out of, generally.

Oh - and I didn't ask for no stinkin mortars....     ;D

Cheers


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## Danjanou (13 Jul 2004)

Matt, elax and get used to Muskrat's rather subtle attempts at humor.

Trust me I was DS on his CLC waay back and he knows how to hump a ruck day in and day out.

Muskrat remember the course commander and Carl G P/T?


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## KevinB (13 Jul 2004)

Well while waiting for my RAV...

 A few buddies decided to get some gear done of for our trip so I latched on for a CADPAT AR version.

 Pics 





















More pics and my buddy Rob's rundown on this.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=16899

[jedi mind trick]
MJP - you need one..
[/jedi mind trick]


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## muskrat89 (13 Jul 2004)

LOL - Yeah.. nothing like having the good Captain go trotting by with the Carl G at port arms, while you're huffing and puffing like a little freight train with webbing and rifle....

I also remember umpteen trips to the driving range, back and forth, in one day... asking permission to get a drink of water... ya buncha sadists...      We did some calculations later and and figured we did about 25-28 klicks in that day. I remember coming in from field ex and doing drill in the middle of the night, in the rain....   ahhh.. those were the days

Sorry to hijack the thread.. I'll butt out now... and stay in the Mess and Artillery sections, where my rapier wit is appreciated


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## pvandoremalen (13 Jul 2004)

Thats quite the setup. I didn't look at it too closely but overall how is it for cargo space. I'm not the biggest fan of the new tac vest, you can't really modify it all. What you see is what you get. Its better then the webbing and it fits awesome with a rucksack on. I was thinking about getting a British rig thats got loads of cargo space, preferably I'd like to carry 24hours worth of food/water and ammo on me without a pack. The rig I was looking at is DPM and has three large cargo pouchs that are removeable, with basically the same pouchs and grenade holders on the front. A problem the lads have been running into is that most vests I've seen don't properly fit our grenades in them without soaking them over night with a tennis ball and even thats iffy. The other issue with vests are most of them are knock offs for air soft or collecters they don't have strong enough stitching and material for field wair.


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## MJP (13 Jul 2004)

Nah an arid pattern thingey...you make it sound like I'll be leaving the camp.   I'm forswearing everything gucci I told them I would be quite happy to take the burden of the C7 CT, you know it being a weapon system nobody wants to carry.  

Besides I hate Tac Vests(well at least our version of it), and buying an Arid version would leave me open to much heckling.


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## Scott (13 Jul 2004)

Does anyone know where I can order a wristwatch/OD ? Came with a simple green strap and I can only remember ever seeing it at the old Aldershot CANEX/Canteen before they built the new barracks (This was in '97) It was a very nice piece and was made by Timex, if anyone knows where I can pick one up it'd be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!


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## Scott (13 Jul 2004)

Har, har. Searching does wonders lads. Go to www.timex.com and look for model number 41711 or 18581. These are two watches that are very nice. The first is in OD and the second in black, they are identical otherwise and come for the paltry sum of $25 USD. When I had mine I swapped the issue band for a better velcro one, very easy. These are rugged snappy looking timepieces and I suggest onefor every soldier. However, I do think you need a cover for the face when in the field as I believe the numbers are luminescent.

Check it out.

Cheers!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (14 Jul 2004)

No, sorry Muskrat but Matt's right. I remember being in the  FOO party on a mountion in Norway, with all the same gear that the RCR had plus a 25 set and a weeks worth of batteries in my rucksack and I was glad that the infantry commander let me bring my gun tractor up there with me.


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## Matt_Fisher (14 Jul 2004)

Sorry if I spoke a little too harshly.  I did not mean any ill-will towards Muskrat or the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery.  I was trying to describe my observations on how some of the combat arms have gotten a little too comfy in their surroundings, and how it can be a very rude wake up call to live the life of a light infantryman.

Not to say that everybody in the Artillery are living out of their gun tractors.  FOO parties attached to light infantry hump their ass off and I'm sure that the former 2 RCHA "E" Battery that was attached to the CAR had a pretty spartan existence as well.

Kevin, that rig looks pretty sweet.  I especially like the zippered pouches.  About the only thing I'd wish that it had on it was a modular system like PALS so you can change the setup depending on your role (ie. 203 gunner, C9 gunner, etc.)

Do you have the contact info for the folks that made it?


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## KevinB (16 Jul 2004)

MJP,

I think the camp will be but a shadow...

 5 CT's ... You, me, and HJ plus two Spares unless the OP sec's take an interest...


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## MJP (16 Jul 2004)

> I think the camp will be but a shadow...



Why will the wogs get in the way of the sun?


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## KevinB (16 Jul 2004)

MJP said:
			
		

> > I think the camp will be but a shadow...
> 
> 
> 
> Why will the wogs get in the way of the sun?



 ;D

that kills me.


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