# Aircrew Selection/ACS (Merged)



## cda84 (3 Dec 2005)

Couldnt find a previous post to this question. If I have my Private (soon Commercial) Pilot License, and I flunk the pilot portion of ASC, may I retry again at a later date? And does having a Private License vs. a Commercial License matter in terms of redo eligibility?

Thanks


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## Weiner (3 Dec 2005)

As far as I know from what I have found, I believe that you would have to upgrade your license to prove that you have enhanced your skills in order to take the course again.  I am going tomorrow and I do not have my license, and the recruiter said I would have to get my private license in order to be eligible to take the course again.  

It seems that the best move would be to make sure that you put off actually getting the formal commercial license before going to the ASC, and if it happens to go bad, then you will not have to do too much to get the commercial and be eligible again (after the year wait). 

However, I am not in the forces yet and I may be way off on this, so definately talk to a recruiter.

I also think there are some posts on the site about it, so just try different searches until something good comes up.


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## kincanucks (3 Dec 2005)

Straight out of the recruiting bible:

Plt 32 candidates must wait a minimum of one (1) year prior between testing periods in order to be considered for a CAPSS retest. Applications for CAPSS retest are subject to a review of the 'upgrades' obtained subsequent to the last CAPSS test. Candidates must gain skills & ability flying an aircraft before they can be considered for a retest. The attainment or "upgrading" of a Transport Canada Licence (i.e., attaining a Private Pilot's Licence or "upgrading" a Private Pilot's Licence to a Commercial Pilot's Licence) subsequent to initial CFASC testing may qualify a candidate for retest consideration.   

(1) For the purpose of this document "Pilot's Licence" does not refer to the
attainment of an aviation Permit, Rating or Aeroplane Class Rating.

For example:

(a) candidates who did not hold a Private Pilot's Licence at the time of testing
must obtain at least a Private Pilot's Licence before consideration is given
for a retest;

(b) a candidate who held a Private Pilot's Licence at the time of testing must
obtain at least a Commercial Pilot's Licence; and

(c) a candidate who held a Commercial Pilot's Licence at the time of
testing must obtain the Airline Transport Pilot Licence before a
request for retest will be considered.


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## cda84 (3 Dec 2005)

Ok thanks. I was told by an MCC that once you have your PPL you fail it for life. Which seems kind of harsh. So I am a few hours and a written exam away from my commercial license, basically, would it be wise for me not to send in my paperwork for the license until I finish CAPSS? As currently I do not officially hold a CPL. Multi-IFR yes, but not the tehcnical license. Would this count as upgrading? i.e do they look in depth at what you have done to further your flying skills?

Anywyas Im off to the airport now for a flight actually, thanks for any further help guys. kincanucks thankyou.


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## kincanucks (3 Dec 2005)

What I have posted is in black and white.  You either have what they want or you don't.  What you decide to do is up to you. Good Luck.


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## Sf2 (3 Dec 2005)

if you worry too much about failing, you're going to fail.

Go in with a positive attitude and pass the first time instead of finding ways to try again......


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## cda84 (3 Dec 2005)

Good advice short final, a positive attitude means every difference in the world.

However back to my original question of the hard and cold rules, it seems the answer has been given. Well that being said I guess Ill hold off the CPL for now. Thankyou again. Unless anybody else has any further information on the rules of repeating and license upgrades from Private Pilot License and up? That answers my question.

Thankyou gents


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## Zoomie (4 Dec 2005)

Multi-Engine, IFR, Night, Float, Ski, etc are all endoursements or ratings and hence not licenses.  Only three licenses meet the criteria, Private, Commercial or Airline Transport.


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## ballz (30 Jan 2008)

But after reading through many pages of threads, I still haven't found the answer to a simple question (although I did find lots of other great info).

All I want to know is, does the seat of the sim at ACS move as a plane would move? aka if i bank 20 degrees to the right, is entire thing going to do the same so that i feel like i'm flying a plane that is banked 20 degrees to the right.

I ask because i'm driving 5 hours away to prepare for ACS (i have zero flying experience) and their sim doesn't move around and stuff like that, so the guy i was talking to said it might be worth my while to just get a couple hours of flying under my belt instead of practicing on their sim. I just wanna know if i should do that cause it costs quite a bit more money and i'm at college living off kd and noodles.

I'm sorry and if i can get a simple answer i can understand that this thread will be locked up.


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## WannaBeFlyer (30 Jan 2008)

A lot of people with zero experience have made it through ASC. Don't worry about it. Go with an open mind and good luck.


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## benny88 (30 Jan 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> does the seat of the sim at ACS move as a plane would move?



    Yes, CAPSS pitches, rolls, and yaws to simulate the motion of an actual aircraft. But because you're shut up in the capsule without visual reference to the outside, you don't notice it a whole lot.

    Like MG said, don't worry about it. Good luck.


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## ballz (30 Jan 2008)

haha well i feel pretty good about it, but none the less i'd rather be prepared. better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it yunno? and if not, the worst-case scenario is that i go to gander flight training and pay some money to have some fun in a plane. thanks a lot guys.


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## benny88 (30 Jan 2008)

I went to ACS with about 2 hours on small aircraft, and I feel like it helped a bit. Quite a few people have never touched the controls of an aircraft and do just fine, and some (including a guy on my course) have their private or commercial licenses and fail anyways. Get flight time if you feel like it will help, but beware of picking up bad habits.

  This has all been covered, I recommend searching the site on ASC for more info.


Cheers,
Benny


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## aesop081 (30 Jan 2008)

Ballz,

When you start a thread, how about you be more descriptive as to the subject. Saying "i apologize in advance" doesnt tell anyone anything as to what its about. Yourthread could have been called "ACS questions" or something similar, telling members what its about. makes searches more effective. Add that to the fact that your question could have been added to a previous thread about ACS.

Milnet.ca staff


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## ballz (30 Jan 2008)

fixed it....


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## Elwood (31 Jan 2008)

ACS is weird because it's not quite like flying a sim and it's not quite like flying a real plane. It's just ACS, and you have to go through it to be concidered as a pilot. The best advice is always to relax and listen to what the instructors say.

A few hours on a real plane might prepare you better to know where the flight controls will be, but other than that, any preparation you do before ACS won't determine wether you pass ACS or not.


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## Perfect_Clark (31 Jan 2008)

Speaking of ACS ... anyone else booked for Feb 24-29?


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## ballz (31 Jan 2008)

i leave on the 17th and return on the 22nd.. i guess that makes my ACS from the 18th till the 21st or 22nd.


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## glider742 (31 Jan 2008)

hey ballz,
im booked for the 18th to 22 so guess ill see ya their


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## zorro (31 Jan 2008)

Like all the others have already said, the best advice for CAPSS is an open mind. Trying to prep. using real flight time won't help much since CAPSS handles MUCH differently. If anything, I'd recommend reading up on the instruments and understanding how they relate to one another-->having a good cross-check is the key to ASC.

-Z

Benny, when are we goin up in a 172? U better gimme a call next year when they get you guys flyin those katanas......


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## airman87 (2 Feb 2008)

Firstly I’d like to say that this is my first post and I am a long-time viewer of various forums, threads and posts. This site is wonderful. It’s extremely informative and very helpful to prospective and veteran CF personnel. 

I am to attend ASC in Trenton this month and have meticulously searched every thread there was regarding CFASC and CAPSS. Good stuff all around. However, I have a situation regarding pilot experience prior to attending ASC.

It goes something like this;

I currently hold a student pilot permit, working towards my PPL. I have done approx. 90% of my flying minus the flight test and written exam by TC. A buddy of mine went to ASC with a completed PPL, failed and they told him to comeback with a CPL. My question is as follows. If I were to fail with my pre-mature PPL will they require me to get a CPL next time around or to finish off the PPL? Should I halt my PPL training immediately?

Is 90% of a PPL = no PPL…I guess it is but I want to hear what you guys think.

I asked the CO at the CFRC in Kitchener and he didn’t know so I come to you guys to give me some thoughts.

Thanks everyone.


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## airman87 (2 Feb 2008)

Oh yeah I'm leaving for ASC Feb 25-29...Carpool anyone??


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## ballz (4 Feb 2008)

does anybody know this stuff about trenton and toronto? i assumed it was all in trenton but from reading the stuff it looks like theres medical testing in toronto and whatnot (providing u pass acs of course)


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## aesop081 (4 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> does anybody know this stuff about trenton and toronto? i assumed it was all in trenton but from reading the stuff it looks like theres medical testing in toronto and whatnot (providing u pass acs of course)



Yes, the medical portion is done in Toronto on the last 2 days.


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## volition (4 Feb 2008)

airman87 said:
			
		

> Firstly I’d like to say that this is my first post and I am a long-time viewer of various forums, threads and posts. This site is wonderful. It’s extremely informative and very helpful to prospective and veteran CF personnel.
> 
> I am to attend ASC in Trenton this month and have meticulously searched every thread there was regarding CFASC and CAPSS. Good stuff all around. However, I have a situation regarding pilot experience prior to attending ASC.
> 
> ...



If you failed without a ppl!!! Then you'll be asked to finish your ppl and wait a year.


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## infamous_p (4 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> I ask because i'm driving 5 hours away to prepare for ACS (i have zero flying experience) and their sim doesn't move around and stuff like that, so the guy i was talking to said it might be worth my while to just get a couple hours of flying under my belt instead of practicing on their sim. I just wanna know if i should do that cause it costs quite a bit more money and i'm at college living off kd and noodles.



I don't know why so many of the people have noted on the boards that they are driving 5 hours out of their way, spending however much money to get a few hours in a plane, buying $300 yoke and pedals and flight sims off eBay all to prepare for Aircrew Selection, etc. etc. A few hours in a small plane or spending forty million dollars on top notch flight sim equipment and decking out your entire basement is not going to determine whether you pass or fail - it may not even really help you prepare "properly". 

Each simulator flies differently, the CAPSS simulators as well. The CAPSS simulator isn't even designed to fly as a real aircraft would - it's designed to simulate FLYING an aircraft, but not designed to simulate how an aircraft actually flies. If you are really intent on passing ACS, ENSURE you know your instruments, where each of them are and what each corresponds to - that will make your crosscheck (another important element of ACS) much, much more efficient as you won't spend that extra 2 seconds making sure you are, in fact, looking at your climb and descent rate, or your airspeed indicator, etc. Read and re-read and then re-read again the study manual the CFRC gives you, and then when you're done re-reading it, re-read it again. Once you've finished that, re-read it again. And then again. 

As noted in the CAPSS study guide, session #4 measures your ability to fly around a traffic pattern. My advice for this session (obviously, this session is the most important as it has an entire two pages (?) on it in the study guide) is to (in your re-reading of the study guide a thousand times, like I mentioned) memorize the traffic pattern as best as you can. If you memorize the traffic pattern, just like where/what all the instruments are, you won't spend that extra, crucial 3 seconds looking at the screen in front of you and reading and interpreting what you have to do next. If you have to spend those 3 seconds reading and interpreting the next maneuver on the traffic pattern, those 3 seconds are all it takes to let your instruments get away from you, potentially ruining your flight performance. If you know all the maneuvers you're going to be having to make ahead of time, you can execute the motions no problem (maybe with a quick double-check to confirm, although that is better than however long it may take you to look at, read, and interpret the upcoming maneuver). 

On my course, there were four candidates - half passed for pilot, and half failed. The two candidates that failed BOTH had prior flying experience, and one of them had his PPL. The two of us that passed (myself and another younger individual) both had/have no prior flying experience whatsoever - I have never touched a private airplane and I have spent a maximum of maybe 2 hours in my lifetime on a flight simulator on my computer, just farting around. The reason a seemingly unreal amount of people with their PPL's fail is simply due to the fact that because they are already qualified pilots, they know that it is OK in the real world to fly 20 ft above or below assigned altitude, to fly 5 kts faster or slower than the assigned airspeed, etc. These pilots go into the CAPSS simulator with these pilot habits, and blindly fail simply due to the fact that the simulator is measuring your ability to follow instructions and how well you can maintain perfection of all the instruments. 

Like someone else mentioned in another similar thread, which candidates do you think are going to pass? The one who keeps the aircraft perfectly steady at 2,200 ft when the ASSIGNED altitude is 2,000 ft and fly at 180 kts when the assigned airspeed is 160 kts... or the candidate who fluctuates above and below the assigned altitude and faster and slower than the assigned airspeed but does everything in his power to attempt to maintain an altitude of 2000 ft and an airspeed of 160 kts? Think about it.

The CFRC gives you the study guide for a reason. Read. Re-read. Re-read again. And then, yes, you got it, re-read one more time. Then maybe once more just for poops and giggles. Stop going out and spending eighty thousand dollars on flight simulators, private airplanes, neon blue flight suits to wear to bed at night, personal plastic wings to wear on your back while you watch Jetstream, Mayday, or Flight Path on TV. It will not prepare you for ACS and the stresses you will face there. (Oh yes, stress being another thing you will have to deal with... that is a whole other story, trust me). Just memorize the study manual. The only thing prior experience does to help you is ensure you know the instruments, their locations, and functions.

Feel free to ask if you have any more questions. While at Trenton, relax, enjoy the great mess food @ Yukon Galley, go sightseeing and see some Hercs and Globemasters, watch some good TV but most importantly, study study study.

$0.02

Dave


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## ballz (4 Feb 2008)

Well, Dave, your 2 cents is definitely noted by me. I just want to throw out there that the reason I want a couple hours in a sim or a plane is because my biggest concern is how sensitive the controls are going to be. I think the instruments will be the #1 priority, but under pressure, one who isn't used to the sensitive controls and needs to correct some like their bank, may be inclined to jerk the yoke a little too fast and too much? That's the part I'm worried about. I feel like I can keep reading this book and keep the cross-check going fine, I'm just worried I'm going to lose control of the aircraft and instead of fluctuating from 18 to 22 degrees while trying to obtain 20 degrees, I'm going to be fluctuating between 20 degrees to the left and 60 degrees to the right while trying to keep a 20 degree right bank?

Do you think I'm overestimating the challenge I'm up against?

And do they really make neon blue pj's that are like flying suits? That'd be sweet! Lol


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## infamous_p (4 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> Well, Dave, your 2 cents is definitely noted by me. I just want to throw out there that the reason I want a couple hours in a sim or a plane is because my biggest concern is how sensitive the controls are going to be. I think the instruments will be the #1 priority, but under pressure, one who isn't used to the sensitive controls and needs to correct some like their bank, may be inclined to jerk the yoke a little too fast and too much? That's the part I'm worried about. I feel like I can keep reading this book and keep the cross-check going fine, I'm just worried I'm going to lose control of the aircraft and instead of fluctuating from 18 to 22 degrees while trying to obtain 20 degrees, I'm going to be fluctuating between 20 degrees to the left and 60 degrees to the right while trying to keep a 20 degree right bank?
> 
> Do you think I'm overestimating the challenge I'm up against?
> 
> And do they really make neon blue pj's that are like flying suits? That'd be sweet! Lol



To answer your question, the CAPSS simulator is VERY, very sensitive. To overcome this (the instructors @ ACS will say the same thing), sit in a position that allows your wrists to rest on your knees and use ONLY your fingertips (your forefinger and thumb of each hand) on each side of the control yoke to manipulate the control yoke. If you grab the yoke and leave your hands on it, it will only destroy your performance in the air as it is VERY, very sensitive. Almost overwhelming sensitive. That said, you will actually get used to its level of sensitivity quite fast. Corrections are made by almost barely touching the control yoke... you should get a feel for what will cause you to over-correct quite quickly. 

Many pilots and those with experience will agree that the sensitivity of the CAPSS simulator is quite sensitive in comparison to flying an actual aircraft, so I doubt a few hours in an aircraft will really (adequately) prepare you in the way of knowing how sensitive the CAPSS simulator is. As long as you can adapt to it when you get there, you'll be fine. Just don't swing the control yoke around uncontrollably when trying to correct yourself


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## ballz (4 Feb 2008)

If male-pattern baldness wasn't going to get me the stress will haha.

See the nice thing is I've kept a level head under pressure in lots of situations in my life, and so I don't think I'll be prone to freaking out and overcorrecting just because I'm being tested (especially since crashing this thing will be more embarrassing instead of life-threatening haha). It's more of the unknown factors like not being used to something so touchy that I worry about. I just wish I could go for one spin on this CAPSS before the testing begins. But thanks for the pointer, that alone takes away from the unknown factors.


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## infamous_p (4 Feb 2008)

No worries. It's all part of the evaluation. Going into something new and seeing how you adapt to it is all part of the test as well, don't forget.


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## Barracuda13 (4 Feb 2008)

Hey ballz

I did my ACS in sep 06, and yes I was one of the guys that bought a 200 dolar state of the art simulator and played around with it. Was it worth it? Absolutely, now as everyone else have said, there are many factors in ACS that you won't be able to practice for, but you can familiarize yourself with using pedals and a yoke and basic controls and how they react. But again beware, the sim is really sensative and it's really on purpose, calculating how you react to task overload and such. 
I'll repeat the others, when you go there, enjoy the experience, try!!  not to get nervous and you'll be fine. There's nothing wrong with trying to find out information about what you are going to go through, I was doing it  
As I have said if you think playing around with sim controls is gonna help you , buy it.. it's for a price of going out on the weekend right?
Best of Luck to you...


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## ballz (4 Feb 2008)

Is there any truth to what I've heard about so many pilots applying that they stopped taking applications and everything? News like that sure is a get-cha-downer


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## benny88 (5 Feb 2008)

Mods, infamous_p's posts have this all pretty covered, I recommend a lock. If ballz or anyone else has further questions you can go ahead and PM me, or I'm sure other guys who have posted here and have been to Aircrew wouldn't mind either. 

Good luck ballz!

Benny


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## tiger2099 (6 Feb 2008)

And even if you pass Aircrew AND Airnav in Trenton, dont expect to be offered a contract, especially if your ROTP.


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## SupersonicMax (6 Feb 2008)

Tiger2099, why do you say that?


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## tiger2099 (7 Feb 2008)

because i went to aircrew last year passed for pilot AND air nav. Unfortunatly due to the amount of ROTP applicants Im still on the waiting list. I believe the board sat on jan 29th so my recruiter told me that i would probably be selected now since I have done a semester of university with a A average. But yeah, you pass capss, does not mean you get an offer, man people from my group still have not recieved an offer.


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## airman87 (7 Feb 2008)

Interesting, just goes to show that it's not a done deal with passing ASC and the medicals. From what I've heard, pilot is the most competitive MOC out there. Hopefully with all the procurements and contract getting new tac/strategic airlift A/C and the TV show 'Jetstream" the CF is actually looking for a larger number of  pilots.


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## aesop081 (7 Feb 2008)

airman87 said:
			
		

> Hopefully with all the procurements and contract getting new tac/strategic airlift A/C and the TV show 'Jetstream" the CF is actually looking for a larger number of  pilots.



You are missing part of the problem. We need lots of pilots thats for sure BUT we only have the capacity to train so many at a time. So that limits the number we take in every year. Anf as far as the new aircraft are concerned, its not always a growth in the number of seats available for pilots. Some of those new birds will replace older ones so the net gain is not always what it seems.


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## airman87 (7 Feb 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You are missing part of the problem. We need lots of pilots thats for sure BUT we only have the capacity to train so many at a time. So that limits the number we take in every year. Anf as far as the new aircraft are concerned, its not always a growth in the number of seats available for pilots. Some of those new birds will replace older ones so the net gain is not always what it seems.



Granted. Not to mention the millions of dollars it cost to train CF pilots so they really have to be selective while staying in the budget. But this belongs in another thread someother day...


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## Zoomie (7 Feb 2008)

The CF is short quite a number of pilots (in the hundreds) - that being said, we are short operational pilots, not student pilots.

The current CAS' direction is that pilot training will be the number one priority of the Airforce, followed by SAR and then operations.  Aurora, Hornet, Hercules <etc> squadron will continue to be undermanned while DMilC fills all training billets.  

I am off to teach at 3 CFFTS next year - I was one of the _lucky_ ones swept up in the training priority message and sent off to teach.


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## kj_gully (7 Feb 2008)

Take a guy from pri 2 SAR to teach (pri 1). I guess there aren't any pri 3 or 4 pilots left? who needs AC's in a SAR sqn anyway.


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## ballz (8 Feb 2008)

Does ACS give you like a score that can help or hurt you from getting selected? Or is it just pass or fail like the aptitude test? It would be nice to know that's for sure, somehow I think it'd boost my confidence.


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## benny88 (8 Feb 2008)

ASC is just a check in the box, you never see your score, it's a simple pass/fail.


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## airman87 (8 Feb 2008)

I don;t know what it is about ACS?? does it sound better or more integrated in the sequence of letter than ASC?... hm.. just another waisted post by me.  

Thank you


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## benny88 (8 Feb 2008)

Ha! The use of the two different terms has bothered me as well. It does make sense I suppose, as ACS would be Air Crew Selection, if you didn't know that Aircrew was one word. It's not a huge deal, except when trying to search for threads. I remember being very confused when I myself was looking for info on ASC.
  It seems so ingrained as to be useless to try to correct...


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## airman87 (9 Feb 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> except when trying to search for threads. I remember being very confused when I myself was looking for info on ASC.



I hear that!


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## WannaBeFlyer (10 Feb 2008)

I can't tell you why this bothers me so much, but ASC or ACS - it is amazing how many people feel they have to find the secret to passing the tests on the forum. There are numerous threads that say, "there is no secret to ASC" so why start another? There are many test/evaluations in the CF. Do you have to discuss each one to death before hand to feel comfortable? If so, good luck. Just my $0.02.


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## benny88 (10 Feb 2008)

I hear ya MG, although having been through ASC pretty recently (about a year) I gotta say it makes a little sense. The CFAT and medical and stuff, you get another shot at, ASC, if you fail, you need to get your next stage of pilot's license, which can be costly, and therefore impossible for some folk.    
       Now that I'm SLIGHTLY less of a FNG, I know what you mean, although I do still feel the pain of people heading to ASC.


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## airman87 (10 Feb 2008)

MG: As a FNG I certainly feel privileged having access to a network of forum so informative about my future/dream career. The more I can educate myself about the pilot MOC the more I believe I will succeed towards expecting the unexpected. I don’t think that I am the only one who feels this way. For those who have triumphed through the basic application processes it’s easy to condemn the most basic test/evaluations threads on here. 

That being said I’m sure most of you in the 32U have meticulously researched ASC before going or at least asked recruiters/pilots at your local CFRC what to expect. 

This is why we have forums; no matter how repetitive it gets there will always be other people posting their opinions.


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## weiss (10 Feb 2008)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> The CF is short quite a number of pilots (in the hundreds) - that being said, we are short operational pilots, not student pilots.



that seems like universal problem.  I am in marine industry and shortage of skilled personnel with high tickets is quite dramatic.  You cannot just take someone from street and make him engineer or captain.


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## eurowing (10 Feb 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Ha! The use of the two different terms has bothered me as well. It does make sense I suppose, as ACS would be Air Crew Selection, if you didn't know that Aircrew was one word. It's not a huge deal, except when trying to search for threads. I remember being very confused when I myself was looking for info on ASC.
> It seems so ingrained as to be useless to try to correct...



To add to the mix, ACS is an actual Air Force trade.  AirCraft Structures Technician. (Which, IMHO is the one I would have re-mustered to if I knew what I know now)


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## benny88 (10 Feb 2008)

eurowing said:
			
		

> To add to the mix, ACS is an actual Air Force trade.  AirCraft Structures Technician.



   Haha oh no, damned acronyms.


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## ballz (19 Feb 2008)

I pretty much screwed myself today ... I've gotta learn how to follow directions before I'll amount to anything.


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## benny88 (19 Feb 2008)

Chill out ballz, the last sim session is weighted the heaviest. Relax and watch the instruments.


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## Perfect_Clark (19 Feb 2008)

If it cheers you up ballz, I heard from a current pilot today that a guy who crashed the CAPSS 7 times passed, and a guy who didn't crash once failed (in his group). It's about your learning curve not how well you fly.


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## George Wallace (19 Feb 2008)

Perfect_Clark said:
			
		

> If it cheers you up ballz, I heard from a current pilot today that a guy who crashed the CAPSS 7 times passed, and a guy who didn't crash once failed (in his group). It's about your learning curve not how well you fly.



 ;D  .....or how well you crash.


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## ballz (19 Feb 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ;D  .....or how well you crash.



haha I can only hope ... I pulled the throttle out instead of pushing it in while trying to do a climbing turn haha ... I was wondering why pulling back on the yoke wasn't doing anything haha


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## zorro (20 Feb 2008)

I crashed my level circuit the first time.......went completely off the track lol. They came and reset me and then I was fine. Try not to get wound up if u make mistakes....keeping your cool will go a long way. I used to recite (is that how its spelt?) what the mission listed on the screen so that I knew in order exactly what had to be configured to achieve the given performance criteria.

Good luck.


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## infamous_p (20 Feb 2008)

Perfect_Clark said:
			
		

> If it cheers you up ballz, I heard from a current pilot today that a guy who crashed the CAPSS 7 times passed, and a guy who didn't crash once failed (in his group). It's about your learning curve not how well you fly.



I actually crashed the simulator about four times and passed, haha.

Crashes are actually caused by the candidate exceeding pre-programmed parameters. When these parameters are exceeded, that specific simulator has to be reset and that specific practice or test is essentially re-done and re-evaluated. Therefore, crashing the thing doesn't record you as having failed that specific practice.


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## WannaBeFlyer (20 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> haha I can only hope ... I pulled the throttle out instead of pushing it in while trying to do a climbing turn haha ... I was wondering why pulling back on the yoke wasn't doing anything haha


Heheh. So can you tell us if there a stall warning in the sim?  

Good luck today!!!


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## Corey Darling (20 Feb 2008)

I'm still waiting for a date for ASC. 

But im pretty concerned. Do i go there and crash once or twice, then improve. or do i go there giving it my all??

Seems like this system is a little backwards? lol 

This is my 4th year applying. Every year for pilot, but because of 20/40 vision, never made it to ASC. I'm sure glad i turned down other offeres to keep at Pilot. Hope 4th year's the Charm . And now that the standard has finally changed - ive been given rotp at Uvic and a chance for ASC 

But i have my ppl and cant go screwing this one up, cant afford a CPL to retest 

So what is the verdict? Apparently those who crash - pass. those who dont... its up in the air. 

Corey


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## infamous_p (20 Feb 2008)

Corey Darling said:
			
		

> I'm still waiting for a date for ASC.
> 
> But im pretty concerned. Do i go there and crash once or twice, then improve. or do i go there giving it my all??
> 
> ...



Click <a href="http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/70257.15.html"><b>here</b></a>, scroll down, and read my long post. Pay special attention to the fifth paragraph of my post, that should give you some insight. People who crash often do so because they are trying to do what I outline in that paragraph - hovering around the given altitudes/airspeeds/headings etc., without constantly staying above or below them. People who are able to maintain a heading 5 degrees west of their assigned heading, or 20 ft below their assigned altitude are often keeping the simulator very steady at these points. 

However, people doing everything in their power to stay as exact as possible to assigned parameters are often hovering above or below such parameters and sometimes, as expected, lose control - resulting in the crash. 

Following instructions is the key here... <i>even if it means crashing the simulator</i>, the ones who pass are going to be the ones who do everything in their power to follow the instructions they've been given to the 'T', as opposed to the pilot who bluntly does not follow the instructions given (i.e. maintaining a constant altitude 20 ft below assigned altitude, as mentioned)...


----------



## zorro (20 Feb 2008)

Infamous-p hit the nail on the head.

Keep in mind that in the end everything on these boards with regards to ASC is merely speculation, even the guys who run the tests in Trenton don't know whats entailled in scoring candidates.

Long story short, try not to overthink this. Things get really blown out of proportion on these boards. Do your best and you'll be fine.


----------



## Corey Darling (20 Feb 2008)

Thank you for the info. I've got a midterm in a few mins, ill take a look after.

Cheers

Corey


----------



## benny88 (20 Feb 2008)

Corey Darling said:
			
		

> Apparently those who crash - pass. those who dont... its up in the air.



  I didn't crash CAPSS and passed. Not up in the air anymore.


----------



## infamous_p (20 Feb 2008)

Just relax and enjoy it - the simulators are actually quite fun. Don't over-think everything, you will stress yourself out much more than you need to be.

Keep in mind, a good cross-check is what will help your success. Cross-check your instruments, never spend more than a second or two on any one instrument.


----------



## ballz (21 Feb 2008)

infamous_p said:
			
		

> Click <a href="http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/70257.15.html"><b>here</b></a>, scroll down, and read my long post. Pay special attention to the fifth paragraph of my post, that should give you some insight. People who crash often do so because they are trying to do what I outline in that paragraph - hovering around the given altitudes/airspeeds/headings etc., without constantly staying above or below them. People who are able to maintain a heading 5 degrees west of their assigned heading, or 20 ft below their assigned altitude are often keeping the simulator very steady at these points.
> 
> However, people doing everything in their power to stay as exact as possible to assigned parameters are often hovering above or below such parameters and sometimes, as expected, lose control - resulting in the crash.
> 
> Following instructions is the key here... <i>even if it means crashing the simulator</i>, the ones who pass are going to be the ones who do everything in their power to follow the instructions they've been given to the 'T', as opposed to the pilot who bluntly does not follow the instructions given (i.e. maintaining a constant altitude 20 ft below assigned altitude, as mentioned)...



ya that was what i thought too .... but my graphs looked like a seismic graph after a 8.0 earthquake.



			
				MG said:
			
		

> Heheh. So can you tell us if there a stall warning in the sim?



Hahaha well there is an airspeed warning, but unlike the normal "check airspeed" sort of deals, it just makes a loud ringing sound in the headphones. Had it said "check airspeed" I might have clued in but there was no guessing what that high pitch noise was without being told.

Oh by the way everyone, I failed like I predicted. Now the road to a PPL begins  :-\ Ah well, its a fun trip regardless, I won't mind it the second time, unless I fail.


----------



## benny88 (21 Feb 2008)

Ballz, get off here at 1 am! Go crawl into your cozy bed in that palace in Trenton, sleep on top of your blue book (learning by osmosis) and get some rest!


----------



## ballz (21 Feb 2008)

Haha, I'm actually back in Newfoundland already. They only kept me in Trenton long enough to tell me how lousy of a pilot I'd make, then they sent me away.


----------



## benny88 (21 Feb 2008)

Sorry to hear that man. Try try try again if it's what you want. Good luck.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer (21 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> Haha, I'm actually back in Newfoundland already. They only kept me in Trenton long enough to tell me how lousy of a pilot I'd make, then they sent me away.



I'm sorry to hear that. Many have failed aircrew and been successful on their second attempt. When you are ready, get back on the horse and start beefing up your next application. Good luck!


----------



## infamous_p (21 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> Oh by the way everyone, I failed like I predicted.



Optimism at its finest.


----------



## zorro (21 Feb 2008)

who's chirpin benny.


----------



## ballz (21 Feb 2008)

Well I've already been accepted to ROTP so i don't need to do the whole application process over. I've gotta get my PPL in the summer when I go back to Fort Mac and yeah, wait to redo it. I'm not too rattled, it won't really delay me or anything. It's just going to cost me more money now that I need a PPL. It's more of a blow to the confidence than anything else haha. No big deal, that's what keeps your head level.


----------



## Perfect_Clark (21 Feb 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> Well I've already been accepted to ROTP so i don't need to do the whole application process over. I've gotta get my PPL in the summer when I go back to Fort Mac and yeah, wait to redo it. I'm not too rattled, it won't really delay me or anything. It's just going to cost me more money now that I need a PPL. It's more of a blow to the confidence than anything else haha. No big deal, that's what keeps your head level.



On the plus side, if/when you leave the service in the end you'll have your PPL (unless my research proves me wrong and you earn a PPL in the CF), a nice bonus.


----------



## airman87 (21 Feb 2008)

Sorry to hear that ballz, if only those ppl's and cpl's were subsidized eh?!


----------



## I_am_John_Galt (21 Feb 2008)

Perfect_Clark said:
			
		

> On the plus side, if/when you leave the service in the end you'll have your PPL (unless my research proves me wrong and you earn a PPL in the CF), a nice bonus.



I'm not really sure what you are trying to say, but Wings standard pretty much = CPL ... we went through the gory details here: http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/threads/58038.0/all.html


----------



## SupersonicMax (22 Feb 2008)

Perfect_Clark said:
			
		

> On the plus side, if/when you leave the service in the end you'll have your PPL (unless my research proves me wrong and you earn a PPL in the CF), a nice bonus.



More like a CPL, as AG said.  If you have the ATPL requirements, all you have to do is write the exams and off you go.

Max


----------



## benny88 (22 Feb 2008)

Night rating? What about guys with multi time getting multi? IFR?


----------



## I_am_John_Galt (22 Feb 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Night rating? What about guys with multi time getting multi? IFR?


 Jeebus, read the other thread!  We actually looked-up the CARs ...


----------



## SupersonicMax (22 Feb 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Night rating? What about guys with multi time getting multi? IFR?



You get your Night with your CPL.  That's automatic (along with VFR OTT).  If your CF IFR Ticket is unrestricted, you get the IFR in the group of aircraft you last had your ticket ride in (ie:  multi if you did it in a multi engine aircraft). 

Max


----------



## benny88 (22 Feb 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> You get your Night with your CPL.  That's automatic (along with VFR OTT).  If your CF IFR Ticket is unrestricted, you get the IFR in the group of aircraft you last had your ticket ride in (ie:  multi if you did it in a multi engine aircraft).
> 
> Max



Gracias.


----------



## airman87 (28 Feb 2008)

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate everyone who passes this weeks ASC sessions. 

The way I see it is that If you really want it that bad, it's worth forking out the money for that extra pilot license!


"Tis a lesson you should heed: try, try, try again. If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again." 
-William Edward Hickson


----------



## zorro (29 Feb 2008)

The race aint ailways to the swift, but to those who never stop running.


----------



## Kruggle (3 Mar 2008)

thanks benny


----------



## benny88 (3 Mar 2008)

Kruggle, 

   I see that the Mods are also on this thread, so I'll be brief to try to help you before a bit of a shitstorm hits: Use the search function and open your eyes. Why would this thread be here if there was no Aircrew Selection? I understand why you would be confused because you were told differently, but search and you will find outrageous amounts of posts on the aircrew selection process.


----------



## z27 (3 Mar 2008)

Hi, this is my first time on this forum, and I was just wondering what cross-checking is? Thanks so much


----------



## Perfect_Clark (3 Mar 2008)

z27 said:
			
		

> Hi, this is my first time on this forum, and I was just wondering what cross-checking is? Thanks so much



Looking at the flight instruments in an effective pattern (attitude indicator, other instrument, attitude indicator, other instrument, repeat).


----------



## z27 (3 Mar 2008)

oh okay!! great!! thanks alot


----------



## airman87 (3 Mar 2008)

Perfect_Clark said:
			
		

> Looking at the flight instruments in an effective pattern (attitude indicator, other instrument, attitude indicator, other instrument, repeat).



 I thought it was hitting with the stick parallel to the surface!?! no wonder I fail ASC...ha.ahha...ahahah!..


----------



## z27 (3 Mar 2008)

awww... that's so sad!! at least now you know and can try again!!!


----------



## SupersonicMax (3 Mar 2008)

airman87 said:
			
		

> I thought it was hitting with the stick parallel to the surface!?! no wonder I fail ASC...ha.ahha...ahahah!..



huh?


----------



## benny88 (3 Mar 2008)

No more bellyaching on these threads about failing ASC. Take heed of Zorro's quote a few posts above. If you want it, work for it.


----------



## aesop081 (3 Mar 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> huh?



Cross checking.....hockey.....get it ?


----------



## SupersonicMax (3 Mar 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Cross checking.....hockey.....get it ?



Got it thanks!  My brain is a little slow !

Max


----------



## z27 (3 Mar 2008)

no.. i still don't get it.


----------



## ballz (4 Mar 2008)

I don't know if your joking or not but since I'm bored at 3:43 in the morning, I'll pretend you aren't:

Cross-checking is also a penalty in hockey, which is what he was referring to when he was talking about using a stick thats parallel to the ice to hit somebody.


----------



## z27 (4 Mar 2008)

is anyone going to trenton March 10-14?


----------



## z27 (4 Mar 2008)

yes, I understand what cross-checking is in hockey. but what is it when you're flying a simulator?


----------



## glider742 (4 Mar 2008)

z27 said:
			
		

> yes, I understand what cross-checking is in hockey. but what is it when you're flying a simulator?


Cross checking is the method in which you look at the intrument panel. It consist of looking from the attitude inticator to another instrument then to the attitude indicator then another instrument and so on. You repeat this in a motion so that u see and understand all the intrument while always keeping a constant attitude. You have to do this the whole time in which you are flying CAPSS or it will get away from you really quickly.


----------



## z27 (4 Mar 2008)

oh okay!! got it!! thank you soo much!!


----------



## z27 (4 Mar 2008)

glider742, you are with RC Ottawa? I see that you have been accepted, but have you gone to trenton yet? thanks again for your post


----------



## glider742 (4 Mar 2008)

I complete ASC in trenton about three weeks ago.


----------



## z27 (4 Mar 2008)

oh cool!! how'd it go??


----------



## glider742 (4 Mar 2008)

well i passed capps still haven't been told how my medicals went


----------



## z27 (5 Mar 2008)

oh okay!! that's pretty exciting!! good for you. Are you planning on attending RMC in Sept?


----------



## glider742 (5 Mar 2008)

z27 said:
			
		

> oh okay!! that's pretty exciting!! good for you. Are you planning on attending RMC in Sept?


Yeah i was accepted for sept 2008, pm me if u have any other Q


----------



## z27 (6 Mar 2008)

very nice!! i was accepted for sept 2008 also. however, i haven't gone to ASC. wish me luck!! haha. thanks for all your help. 

ps- what year are you going to be in, in sept 2008? if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## benny88 (6 Mar 2008)

z27 said:
			
		

> ps- what year are you going to be in, in sept 2008? if you don't mind me asking.



  IIRC, everyone who starts at RMC is in first year. Even if you credits from another school, there's no skipping FYOP


----------



## zorro (6 Mar 2008)

CIVY-U ALL THE WAYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## z27 (6 Mar 2008)

really? you can't be transferred in second or third year??


----------



## SupersonicMax (6 Mar 2008)

z27 said:
			
		

> really? you can't be transferred in second or third year??



Rarely.  But you'd still have to complete FYOP.

Max


----------



## zorro (6 Mar 2008)

There was one guy on my IAP course that had completed university. He received NO transfer credits of anykind.

However, one of our "pod-mates" completed CEGEP  (I think that's the correct acronym) and he received some transfers.

Hit and miss I guess...


----------



## glider742 (7 Apr 2008)

Does any one know how long it usually takes for the aircrew medical results?


----------



## Perfect_Clark (7 Apr 2008)

I just got mine back a few days ago and I did ASC the last week of February. The medical officer at my CFRC said they usually tell you on the spot whether you pass or fail. Basically no news is good news (a guy in my group was told he failed on the spot), so don't worry about it.


----------



## glider742 (7 Apr 2008)

ok thanks alot i did mine mid-feb so if they havent called me to say i fail, i'll take it as good news


----------



## 2fly (11 Apr 2008)

I applied for CEOTP and am currently in the Navy.  So I am not going through the recruiting center.  I am booked on the ASC at the end of April (this month).  Out of the 7 members from Esquimalt that applied for CEOTP, only two of us where booked on that ASC.  We still do not have any acceptance offers but the selection board was supposed to be meeting in March.  I hope to hear soon.

With respect to the medical, I had to go through the basic aircrew medical pre-screen then the med docs sent to Toronto.  When a person passes the ASC and goes to Trenton, what extra medical screening is done?

Thanks,
Gary


----------



## benny88 (11 Apr 2008)

2fly said:
			
		

> When a person passes the ASC and goes to Trenton, what extra medical screening is done?



  It should be covered in detail on these forums, but to get you started, I remember breathing (lung capacity, etc) hearing, and cognitive tests, and EKG (or ECG, I don't know the difference) and an ultrasound of my chest.


----------



## infamous_p (11 Apr 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> It should be covered in detail on these forums, but to get you started, I remember breathing (lung capacity, etc) hearing, and cognitive tests, and EKG (or ECG, I don't know the difference) and an ultrasound of my chest.



Apparently the cognitive test has been phased out. When I went through the medicals @ DRDC, the computer crashed three separate times while attempting to complete the cognitive test. After the third time, the Petty Officer said, "don't worry about it, you don't need to do it".

A few weeks later, I heard that it had been phased out. 

Obviously only someone who has been through the aircrew medicals in the last few weeks or so can comment accurately on whether or not it has been phased out.


----------



## ark (11 Apr 2008)

2fly said:
			
		

> With respect to the medical, I had to go through the basic aircrew medical pre-screen then the med docs sent to Toronto.  When a person passes the ASC and goes to Trenton, what extra medical screening is done?
> 
> Thanks,
> Gary





> Pilot/Navigator applicants assessed at CMB undergo additional screening as follows:
> EEG (only if considered relevant due to medical history);
> Pulmonary function (FVC, FEV1, MEF 50 and MEF 75 routinely plus nitrogen washout, diffusing capacity, pre and post bronchodilator and methacholine challenge as indicated);
> M-mode, two dimensional echocardiography and Doppler (Pilot applicants only);
> ...



http://www.toronto.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/medical/glfs_e.html

I hope this helps.


----------



## 2fly (11 Apr 2008)

Thanks, for all of the feedback and the web link.  That answered most of the questions.  Now I just have to wait for the testing, thanks to everyone of the pointers WRT the ASC.  I have noted: relax, cross-check over and over and have fun.  There is nothing I can do to prepare even though I have logged over 10 hours on a commercial multi sim and 4 hours in a friends beach baron.    Anyone else doing ASC 28 April to 2 May 2008?


----------



## infamous_p (11 Apr 2008)

2fly said:
			
		

> Thanks, for all of the feedback and the web link.  That answered most of the questions.  Now I just have to wait for the testing, thanks to everyone of the pointers WRT the ASC.  I have noted: relax, cross-check over and over and have fun.  There is nothing I can do to prepare even though I have logged over 10 hours on a commercial multi sim and 4 hours in a friends beach baron.    Anyone else doing ASC 28 April to 2 May 2008?



I hope all goes well, best of luck.


----------



## Corey Darling (11 Apr 2008)

I am,  I guess I'll see you there 

Got my blue guide book yesterday. Pretty straight forward.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer (11 Apr 2008)

Corey Darling said:
			
		

> I am,  I guess I'll see you there
> 
> Got my blue guide book yesterday. Pretty straight forward.



For those who are going on the 28th, did you apply for Pilot through ROTP?


----------



## Corey Darling (11 Apr 2008)

I did, ROTP through Civi at Uvic.

They phoned me with my offer back in february i think.

This is my 4th attempt at pilot.

Every year for the past 3 years, I had heard they were changing the vision standards - and they didnt. Well, I'm glad I turned everything else down and kept at it because they have finally changed the standards   I guess I have to stop wearing my Ortho K contacts again for the Medical in Toronto.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer (11 Apr 2008)

Corey Darling said:
			
		

> I did, ROTP through Civi at Uvic.
> 
> They phoned me with my offer back in february i think.
> 
> ...



Good for you! 

That is what I thought: ROTP candidates are still being booked for ASC. I did have a tentative booking for April 14th, but it was cancelled. 

Good luck!


----------



## 2fly (11 Apr 2008)

I have the course load list.  For confidentiallity reasons, I will only list last name and location but here are the CEOTP and ROTP's that are goung through a recruiting center.  The others on the list are internal applications from PRes and RegF such as myself (14 in total)...

Bruce - Victoria
Darling - Victoria
Jewer - St.  Johns
Militaru - Toronto
Mongeon - Yellowknife
Pynn - Corner Brook
Thomas - Toronto

Hope some of you are on it that have been waiting.


----------



## Corey Darling (11 Apr 2008)

Cool 

So you're based out of Esquimalt? Maybe we'll be schedualed for the same flight over. Im in Nanaimo

Good Luck to all


----------



## WannaBeFlyer (11 Apr 2008)

2fly said:
			
		

> I have the course load list.  For confidentiallity reasons, I will only list last name and location but here are the CEOTP and ROTP's that are goung through a recruiting center.



Well I'll be...there are CEOTP'ers on there. That's not what I was told. All I can do it laugh at this point. 

Again, good luck!


----------



## 2fly (12 Apr 2008)

That sounds like a good possibility.  There are two of us from the Navy and two from CFRC Victoria so more than likely all four of us will fly out together.


----------



## Perfect_Clark (12 Apr 2008)

Just to confirm, yes the cognitive test has been phased out. I did ASC back in February and none of my group did it even though it was still on the sheet. I'd been told that a few weeks before that they decided to start doing it only for people who'd had ADD or something similar before.


----------



## 2fly (12 Apr 2008)

Yeah, some people take a good guess as to who is loaded on these things but until CFRG in Borden puts out the load message, you can only speculate.  Atleast, that is my experience.

As for the CEOTP's on the course...  There are 8 people that are internal applicants from this years re-muster competition.  As for the CEOTP's that are civi through the recruiting center there is only 1.  The others are ROTP. 

Possibly no cog screen eh?  Well, that is possibly one more thing off of my list that might fail us.  ^-^


----------



## Corey Darling (12 Apr 2008)

Just to confirm. 

Is there a written portion for the Pilot exam? Or is that stricktly for Anav.  If you do write the Anav tests, will the score affect Pilot?


----------



## 2fly (12 Apr 2008)

Nope, the written that is done first before the sim is for ANAV only and has no reflection on if you pass the pilot (sim).  I was doing some reading up on the design of the CAPSS.  I found a research article that reviewed the viability of the CAPSS compared to the old method and how the CFAT scores compare to the CAPSS results.  Neat stuff.  The CAPSS measures some 30 different paramaters every second of flight.  All of them are measurements of percent error.  So I can see how a person keeping the heading 5 deg off or the alt 20 ft off will make them fail.


----------



## Corey Darling (12 Apr 2008)

Do you know if the Airnav test is manditory if your're only applying for pilot?  Guess it cant hurt to take it.  Im pretty sure i wont be able to pass it anyway lol.


----------



## infamous_p (12 Apr 2008)

Corey Darling said:
			
		

> Do you know if the Airnav test is manditory if your're only applying for pilot?  Guess it cant hurt to take it.  Im pretty sure i wont be able to pass it anyway lol.



Everyone writes the Air Nav test, regardless of whether or not you have Air Nav listed as one of your choices. It's just part of the Aircrew Selection process. If you're applying only for pilot and fail the Air Nav test, it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect your chances of being offered pilot. So yes, to answer your question, the Air Nav test is mandatory for all candidates going through ACS.


----------



## Corey Darling (12 Apr 2008)

Alright, thanks 

Guess ill brush up on my fractions. Calculators have spoiled me lol


----------



## volition (14 Apr 2008)

Dec/6/2007- I was put on the ASC for april 7th,2008. Two weeks before, I was told that only ROTPs, CETOTPs were going first so I was bump off the test another time. :-\ (No new date has been given to me)


----------



## WannaBeFlyer (14 Apr 2008)

volition said:
			
		

> Dec/6/2007- I was put on the ASC for april 7th,2008. Two weeks before, I was told that only ROTPs, CETOTPs were going first so I was bump off the test another time. :-\ (No new date has been given to me)



That's funny - I am CEOTP and my date in April was cancelled. Two weeks before my date I hadn't heard anything so I contacted them. I was told I wasn't going until they had the SIP numbers for this year. No new dates have been given to me either. I am not complaining, I just thought that it was funny that you were told you were bumped for CEOTP'ers and I am a CEOTP'er that was bumped. Maybe that's a sign for me. "Stop buggin' us Pte!"


----------



## volition (15 Apr 2008)

Yea, that is funny!  :-\


----------



## 2fly (15 Apr 2008)

I know that internal applicant CEOTP's are going through right now (me included) and if we pass the ASC and pass the selection board that MET last month, we change our uniforms over and report to our given flight line to begin OJT and wait for the next BFT.  Maybe that has affected the number of open spots for external ROTP and CEOTP apps.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer (15 Apr 2008)

2fly said:
			
		

> I know that internal applicant CEOTP's are going through right now (me included) and if we pass the ASC and pass the selection board that MET last month, we change our uniforms over and report to our given flight line to begin OJT and wait for the next BFT.  Maybe that has affected the number of open spots for external ROTP and CEOTP apps.



I don't know if that is the case; I applied for a CT from the Reserves. It could be that you are simply more competitive than I am for example and received an ASC date.


----------



## 2fly (15 Apr 2008)

I was suspecting so since the CEOTP CT's that are currently loaded on the 28th ASC (8 of us) are from all across Canada (Pet, Cold Lake, Yellowknife, Victoria, etc).  When I spoke with the coordinator, he said that the selection board is meeting again after the ASC to select from the people that pass.  When I told him that there where 7 applicants for this years CEOTP from Victoria and only 2 made it to the 28th ASC he said that it is more than likely there will be another ASC running in June with more CEOTP's on it.  With that being said, he said the selected people may not hear until well after the June ASC.  Sucks for us since we have had our apps in since the January cut off... More waiting and I don't know if the current ones going on the 28th are the top of the selection board list or not...  Argg... Gotta love it.  ???


----------



## Corey Darling (16 Apr 2008)

I received my tickets and medical files today.

Im leaving nanaimo on the 26th, then departing vancouver on the 910 flight number 34 to toronto.  anyone else on that flight?



> When I spoke with the coordinator, he said that the selection board is meeting again after the ASC to select from the people that pass.



This doesnt apply to ROTP does it? For ROTP they dont have a selection board till after the 1st year of school right?


----------



## 2fly (16 Apr 2008)

I dont know my flight yet, my clerk is booking it tomorrow.  Don't worry about the selection board etc.  That is only for current members changing trades through CEOTP.  I'll let you know flight info when I get it.


----------



## benny88 (18 Apr 2008)

Corey Darling said:
			
		

> This doesnt apply to ROTP does it? For ROTP they dont have a selection board till after the 1st year of school right?



  Unless it has changed in the past year, wrong. I was enrolled and did IAP BEFORE my first year of Civvy-U, which I am just finishing up now.
   Then again, I did my ASC time in March, so there was time to enroll me and everything before summer courses. It might be cutting it a little bit close now and you might get pushed back to next summer, but that's just speculation. Good luck.


----------



## 2fly (20 Apr 2008)

Hi Corey,

I will see you in Trenton.  My flight (WestJet) has us landing in Toronto 1543 hrs (L) and getting on the bus to Trenton at 1900.  I am flying back to Victoria on Saturday 3 May 08 - 1306 hrs (L) - Westjet.  Have a good flight and try not to get too worked up about the CAPSS.  :brickwall:


----------



## Corey Darling (20 Apr 2008)

^^ 

You too 



> and try not to get too worked up about the CAPSS.


   

I'll try lol. Im going up for a refresher flight this wed. just to get used to a yoke again. been using a computer joystick for too long lol

Cya there 

Good luck all.


----------



## whitehead (25 Apr 2008)

Has anybody else been booked in for May 26th-30th?


----------



## 2fly (25 Apr 2008)

whitehead said:
			
		

> Has anybody else been booked in for May 26th-30th?



Hello, welcome to the site.  Are you?  Are you ROTP, CEOTP and if CEOTP are you a current member (internal) or are you a civi?


----------



## whitehead (25 Apr 2008)

2fly said:
			
		

> Hello, welcome to the site.  Are you?  Are you ROTP, CEOTP and if CEOTP are you a current member (internal) or are you a civi?



Yes, I am.
I'm a civi ROTP applicant


----------



## 2fly (25 Apr 2008)

whitehead said:
			
		

> I'm a civi ROTP applicant



Congrats on being selected for the ASC, one more building block out of the way.    I have not heard of anyone for the dates you mentioned, I only know of 18 from each of the three weeks prior.


----------



## BarthJD (26 Apr 2008)

Hey Guys,

  The recruiting center in Vancouver called me about 3 weeks ago to let me know I had been selected to go to ASC as a civy ROTP applicant.  When can I expect a booking for ASC?  How long does it typically take after you make it past the first hurdle?

Jeff


----------



## Corey Darling (26 Apr 2008)

Call them immediately and ask for the next open selection weeks. Pick your top 3 which you are available for. 

They will schedual you on one of those 3. But you have to call them first to let them know when your available.  It can be about 1-2 months before you get your date.

Congrats 

Corey


----------



## ShaneOB (28 Apr 2008)

tiger2099 said:
			
		

> And even if you pass Aircrew AND Airnav in Trenton, dont expect to be offered a contract, especially if your ROTP.



Hi all,

First of all, this forum has been very informative and I am especially appreciative of those of you with previous experience and particular knowledge on the subject for sharing with the rest of us.

I have applied for pilot as a direct entry officer (I already have a degree) and was recently given a conditional offer of employment, conditional, of course, on my passing air crew selection and the medicals in Toronto.  I was told by my recruiter that I would begin BOTC (or whatever it's called today) on August 17th if I passed air crew selection (July 7 to 11).  Does this mean I've already been given an offer for pilot?  I am asking because I was excited about the opportunity, but after reading some of the posts it has become obvious that passing ACS doesn't necessarily mean you are in.  On the other hand, most posts seem to refer to ROTP applicants.

Thanks in Advance


----------



## benny88 (28 Apr 2008)

ShaneOB said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> First of all, this forum has been very informative and I am especially appreciative of those of you with previous experience and particular knowledge on the subject for sharing with the rest of us.
> 
> ...



    A conditional offer is a offer, and you seem to have a grasp on the conditions. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether you've been given an offer for pilot or "air ops" for which they'll wait to see how you do on BOTC and then give you an offer for Pilot, AirNav, or AEC. But to be fair, I think this is only done for ROTP, not DEO, so I would say you're in good shape for pilot, hopefully someone else can confirm that. Congrats on getting an offer.


----------



## BarthJD (28 Apr 2008)

Aren't you selected for an occupation before attending BOTC?  On the Air Force website, it says "Phase I. Basic Officer Training: Upon selection into the Pilot occupation, you will be enrolled in the Canadian Forces as an Officer Cadet and will then proceed to the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec, for a six week Initial Assessment Period (IAP) and then a seven week Basic Officer Training Course (BOTC). "


----------



## benny88 (28 Apr 2008)

BarthJD said:
			
		

> Aren't you selected for an occupation before attending BOTC?  On the Air Force website, it says "Phase I. Basic Officer Training: Upon selection into the Pilot occupation, you will be enrolled in the Canadian Forces as an Officer Cadet and will then proceed to the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec, for a six week Initial Assessment Period (IAP) and then a seven week Basic Officer Training Course (BOTC). "




  This has changed recently, at least for ROTP. Most now are enrolled as say "Air Operations" or "Land Support" and then are assigned a trade after their IAP/BOTP and first year of subsidized education. However, I'm not sure how or if this applies to DEO or the other entry programs.


----------



## BarthJD (28 Apr 2008)

Oh okay... I was given a conditional offer for air operations even though I'm only applying for pilot.  Does this mean I could be offered Air Nav or something else even if I didn't list it as an occupation choice.  By the way, I'm an ROTP applicant with only 1 year left of university.

Cheers,

Jeff


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## benny88 (28 Apr 2008)

BarthJD said:
			
		

> Oh okay... I was given a conditional offer for air operations even though I'm only applying for pilot. * Does this mean I could be offered Air Nav or something else even if I didn't list it as an occupation choice*.  By the way, I'm an ROTP applicant with only 1 year left of university.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jeff



It's a possibility.


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## Perfect_Clark (28 Apr 2008)

It is a possibility, but I would wager you being a DEO entry would have a pilot offer, not air ops. I'm an ROTP entry who only has 1 year left, and at my swearing in last week I specifically signed a contract for Pilot, not any sort of ambiguous entry. You could always call your CFRC for a direct answer.


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## BarthJD (28 Apr 2008)

Thanks for the reply.  I'm actually an ROTP applicant with 1 year left of university as well.  I have ASC coming up in July so I'll just worry about passing that before I worry about what kind of offer I get.  Thanks again!

Jeff


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## Perfect_Clark (28 Apr 2008)

It's really an individual thing. I was supposed to have signed an "air ops" contract, but I failed the air nav exam and that leaves only Aerospace Control Officer and Pilot in the air ops category. My career-counselor officer at my CFRC switched it to be a Pilot contract specifically, so it may be different for each person. The answer to your "what about in my case" questions can only get a real answer from your CFRC... and even then you might not get a full answer haha.


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## DaveTee (13 May 2008)

Hi, anyone going to trenton for ACS the week of june 18th, 2008?


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## 2fly (14 May 2008)

DaveTee said:
			
		

> Hi, anyone going to trenton for ACS the week of june 18th, 2008?



Good luck DaveTree, it sure is an experience.


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## DaveTee (14 May 2008)

Thanks, I'm a little scared, but overwhelmingly just excited to go!


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## Corey Darling (14 May 2008)

The accomodations are great. Foods great. You'll have a good time.

Be sure to check out the museum too.


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## whitehead (19 May 2008)

I picked up my ticket/information last week but was not given anything that resembled medical files, I was under the impression that I would be delivering my own files to Trenton? Did anyone else not take their own files with them?


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## aesop081 (19 May 2008)

whitehead said:
			
		

> I picked up my ticket/information last week but was not given anything that resembled medical files, I was under the impression that I would be delivering my own files to Trenton? Did anyone else not take their own files with them?



Go back and talk to you CFRC. The ASC loading message is rather clear about what to bring.


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## whitehead (19 May 2008)

Thats what i figured.

Thanks


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## Corey Darling (19 May 2008)

The med documents should have been sent to you in a sealed envelope, along with your tickets.


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## canuck054 (20 May 2008)

Has anyone under Reg force CEOTP received conditional offers yet?


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## Zoomie (20 May 2008)

Apparently the scuttle butt is that an FE in Yellowknife has been "promoted" to OCDT and will be riding the Ops desk this summer at 440 Sqn while OJT.


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## WannaBeFlyer (20 May 2008)

canuck,

Recently, I contacted my MCC to find out what the strategic intake plan for CEOTP Pilots looked like for 08-09 because I had been waiting a long time to receive an ASC date. From what I understand, they have really cut back on the amount of people they are accepting for Pilot: 21 total for this year. Now, I don't know if that was 21 for CEOTP or 21 total. From what I have learned on this site, there were 5 CEOTP positions available to NCMs this year. As he explained it, they were looking to cut back on the amount of untrained Pilots coming through the door because of the current backlog.

Now, before you push the panic button, I would *contact your MCC*  to confirm that those numbers are true. I, like you, was wondering why I hadn't heard anything for a while and that was when I learned about the low intake for Pilots this year from my MCC. Maybe somebody can chime in and confirm or correct those numbers. Either way, good luck. It is all speculation, but maybe that is why you haven't heard anything yet.


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## canuck054 (20 May 2008)

Moody, those number seem correct as that is what I seen on the website. I just got my conditional offer and was wondering if anyone else had as well.


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## Elwood (21 May 2008)

Moody,

My CFRC confirms that the numbers are pretty low with about 21 for DEO and very low numbers for NCM CEOTP. I wouldn't be surprised if all the slots are taken now. I know it's bad news, but just hang in there if you want pilot.

ANav had really low numbers as well. 15 DEO in total... I have no clue about CEOTP numbers.


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## aesop081 (21 May 2008)

Elwood said:
			
		

> and very low numbers for NCM CEOTP.



5


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## WannaBeFlyer (21 May 2008)

My mistake Canuck; I thought you were wondering why you hadn't heard anything. Congrats & good luck! 


> I wouldn't be surprised if all the slots are taken now.


According to my MCC, they have reached their intake for this fiscal.


> I know it's bad news, but just hang in there if you want pilot.


It's not that bad; I'm in the Reserves and I fly on the weekend so I get a bit of both worlds. Now, if I couldn't fly for some reason, that would be different.


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## ScottS (12 Jun 2008)

I've been given a offer for air operations conditional on successfully completing ACS.  I'll be attending ACS soon, and being quite tall (6'4"), I'm naturally worried about the anthropometric requirements, i.e. sitting height, etc.  

The Jet Ranger cockpit seems to be one of the smallest, so my question is, if the computer decides that I can't fit in the Jet Ranger cockpit (or another aircraft), but I can fit in everything else, including the Grob, Harvard II, etc. would I still be accepted/considered for Pilot.  Is it necessary to fit in all cockpits or would I just be placed into one of the other two streams when the time came?


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## Corey Darling (12 Jun 2008)

There is no need to fit in all the cockpits. they will tell you which you're not suited for.

For instance, if you fit the hornet, but not the harvard or hawk, then you cant fly the hornet.


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## canuck054 (12 Jun 2008)

You must fit in the trainer for what ever stream you are training on. Ex: Jet Ranger for rotorary, Hawk for high performance, and so on...


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## SupersonicMax (16 Jun 2008)

canuck054 said:
			
		

> You must fit in the trainer for what ever stream you are training on. Ex: Jet Ranger for rotorary, Hawk for high performance, and so on...



But you don't know your stream from the get go, do you 

Max


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## canuck054 (16 Jun 2008)

That is true, as far as I know you get "streamed" after you finish the BFT in Moose Jaw.  :-\


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## SupersonicMax (16 Jun 2008)

Yes, you get your selection at the end of phase IIA.  I think you need to be fit for 2 streams to qualify for pilot (ie: you can be too tall for jets, but then you must be fit for helos and multis).  I think this is what I remember from the Flight Surgeon's brief last year...

Max


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## Astrodog (30 Jun 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Yes, you get your selection at the end of phase IIA.  I think you need to be fit for 2 streams to qualify for pilot (ie: you can be too tall for jets, but then you must be fit for helos and multis).  I think this is what I remember from the Flight Surgeon's brief last year...
> 
> Max



That's what I remember being told as well. My question is, if you don't fit a training craft cockpit at medicals, does that rule you out of that stream altogether? I didn't fit the Jetranger (somehow?), so does that mean I won't have to worry about avoiding those god forsaken broken-wing machines? (Kidding!)


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## George Wallace (30 Jun 2008)

Astrodog said:
			
		

> That's what I remember being told as well. My question is, if you don't fit a training craft cockpit at medicals, does that rule you out of that stream altogether? I didn't fit the Jetranger (somehow?), so does that mean I won't have to worry about avoiding those god forsaken broken-wing machines? (Kidding!)



You will find that your 'dimensions' may be what scrubs you from any pilot training.  It is a safety issue.  For instance the length of bones in your legs, may be too long, and cause 'catastrophic' amputation in the case your had to eject from certain types of aircraft.


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## Arctic007 (8 Jul 2008)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Apparently the scuttle butt is that an FE in Yellowknife has been "promoted" to OCDT and will be riding the Ops desk this summer at 440 Sqn while OJT.




Yes I am, but off to BOTQ pretty quick.....and "Promoted" is an overstatement.....  

My best advice to everyone for ASC is do what you're told, relax, enjoy the experience and some things are beyond your control. Oh and it is 2 types of trainers but don't fret....i'm 6'4"


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## WrenchBender (8 Jul 2008)

Arctic007 said:
			
		

> Yes I am, but off to BOTQ pretty quick.....and "Promoted" is an overstatement.....


Congrats M, (How is my grandson these days?) BB

WrenchBender


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## ark (27 Sep 2008)

Just a small heads-up for those heading to Trenton, there is now a new (ok not really new as this system is used by the Brits) selection system being tested that may eventually be part of the selection process for Pilot wannabes. Participation in these trials is voluntary and results do not count towards the current process but your involvement is highly encouraged as it will help the forces determine if this system may eventually be useful in the selection process.

This is a PC-based exam taking about 2.5 hours to complete which evaluates a variety of cognitive skills. The problems on the test turn around maths, spatial visualization, hands-feet-eye coordination, text analysis, reflexes and memorization. 

Candidates attending ASC are asked to take this test before jumping into the CAPSS. At the moment, the AirNav test is no longer mandatory for Pilot applicants (this may apply to DEO candidates only) and is being done after you got your result from CAPSS.

I do not know how long the trials will last but they need to gather a large enough sample to be statistically significant. It also has to be validated with the results on PFT from those who have taken this exam as the ultimate goal is to predict performance on PFT (just like CAPSS does at the moment). Depending on the results, this system could eventually be used as a pre-screening tool at the Recruiting Center before sending candidates to the ASC. It could even replace CAPSS should it produce better predications or simply be scrapped.

If there are any actual changes to the selection process, it will certainly not be for another couple years.


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## ScottS (4 Dec 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You will find that your 'dimensions' may be what scrubs you from any pilot training.  It is a safety issue.  For instance the length of bones in your legs, may be too long, and cause 'catastrophic' amputation in the case your had to eject from certain types of aircraft.



I've heard of guys being allowed to sign waivers if they're too big (i.e. they still fit and can do the job but infringe on the safety limits).  Anyone know if this is true?


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## benny88 (4 Dec 2008)

Never heard of it, and I highly doubt it. There are enough pilot applicants that it's not necessary. And even besides that, it just sounds like bullshit.


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## Zoomie (4 Dec 2008)

ScottS said:
			
		

> I've heard of guys being allowed to sign waivers if they're too big (i.e. they still fit and can do the job but infringe on the safety limits).  Anyone know if this is true?



Never heard of waivers - we're not going to sacrifice the safety of a pilot over their need to fly in a plane that is too small/big for them.   Lessons learned have taught us that not fitting properly usually results in catastrophy.


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## ScottS (4 Dec 2008)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Never heard of waivers - we're not going to sacrifice the safety of a pilot over their need to fly in a plane that is too small/big for them.   Lessons learned have taught us that not fitting properly usually results in catastrophy.


Yeah I agree, I was a little skeptical but the person who told me seemed to know what he was talking about.  It could have just been a one time thing, I think it was a Hornet pilot and he was fully trained and then they realized he was too tall.  I don't really know/remember the exact story, but likely he grew a lot after they measured him when he was 17, and since the money was already invested, they made an exception.

Anyways, that sucks.  I need to get shorter.


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## Magic (5 Dec 2008)

I have personally met a USAF f-16 pilot who was to tall for the aircraft and needed to sign a waiver. It is simple, if your leg dimensions are above the limit of the aircraft you are in serious trouble if you need to eject. He was on a exchange program with Britain. 


This is in the USAF


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## Magic (5 Dec 2008)

On a side note, sticking to this topic of ASC. I am going sometime in January 09. The whole SIM part has been covered all to well. My big question is the Pilot aptitude test or any other written tests that are administered during this time. What can I expect academically 

Anyone shed some light ?


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## benny88 (5 Dec 2008)

Magic said:
			
		

> My big question is the Pilot aptitude test or any other written tests that are administered during this time. What can I expect academically
> 
> Anyone shed some light ?



No such thing for pilots. You may be thinking of the AirNav (now Air Combat Systems Operators?) test, but for pilots it is strictly the sim.


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## SupersonicMax (5 Dec 2008)

Magic said:
			
		

> I have personally met a USAF f-16 pilot who was to tall for the aircraft and needed to sign a waiver. It is simple, if your leg dimensions are above the limit of the aircraft you are in serious trouble if you need to eject. He was on a exchange program with Britain.
> 
> 
> This is in the USAF



I don't think they would have you sign a waiver just so you can fly what you want.  IIRC, you need to be abled to fit (physical dimensions) into 2 of the 3 streams.  Actually, they are cracking the whip now and started weighting people before they go flying so they don't exceed the ejection seat limits (eighter too heavy or too light, something people turned a blind eye to for a long time).  So, if you're brand spanking new, with no experience, you can't be too good to go helos or multis.  They can send you wherever they want and if you don't fit in the Hawk (the Hawk is the smaller than the Hornet, so this is the limiting cockpit), you won't go jets.


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## Magic (6 Dec 2008)

Ha, I think I should be fine for all. I am 5'8 at 165 pounds. 

That is good news about the Pilot aptitude test. I still however do have an air nav test when I go early Jan 09. 

As for the pilot and waiver issue. I remember him saying that he acknowledges any liability of harm during ejection. I asked him since he was really tall.


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## ScottS (6 Dec 2008)

I think it's probably true that waivers are permitted in rare cases, but it's probably unlikely () that they'll _accept_ people for pilot training who already exceed the limits.  If you're already in, maybe.  Honestly though I have no idea and there's probably not many people who do know the details of this stuff.  Maybe if I walk around with a load of bricks for the next few weeks...  I know I shouldn't worry cause there's not much I can do, but it's still scary.

Magic, do you know the exact dates you're going?  I'm tentatively booked for 12-16 Jan.


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## Magic (6 Dec 2008)

I just gave my 3 choices, I think the first was Jan 5. I basically picked the first 3 weeks in the new year. Waiting on word which one is available.


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## aesop081 (6 Dec 2008)

ScottS said:
			
		

> I think it's probably true that waivers are permitted in rare cases,



You are basing that on what experience ?


If a person is physicaly too large to fit a cockpit, how could you just waive that away ? Think about it.


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## Nfld Sapper (6 Dec 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You are basing that on what experience ?
> 
> 
> If a person is physicaly too large to fit a cockpit, how could you just waive that away ? Think about it.



Just supersize the cockpit  ;D


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## ScottS (6 Dec 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You are basing that on what experience ?
> 
> 
> If a person is physicaly too large to fit a cockpit, how could you just waive that away ? Think about it.


If you read back in this thread, you would notice that some people have first hand experience of this occurring.  I didn't mean anything more than that.  I've read a study done by DRDC on the Hawk, and they said it's actually very unlikely that someone would be physically unable to fly the aircraft because they're too large, the requirements are determined for safe ejection clearance.  So basically someone who's too tall could still safely fly the aircraft until they had to eject, then they're in trouble.

And Magic, I was hoping to go 5-9 Jan but was told the other day that it was cancelled cause not enough people were going.  It kind of sucks for my schedule, but I'm now hopefully going the following week.


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## aesop081 (6 Dec 2008)

ScottS said:
			
		

> So basically someone who's too tall could still safely fly the aircraft until they had to eject, then they're in trouble.



6 of one, half-dozen the other. That person should be sent to a more suitable cockpit, plain and simple.


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## Magic (7 Dec 2008)

He fit fine in the cockpit of the small f16 performing flying duties. He explained that his "leg" bones are to large and under ejection he poosibly could fracture his legs since if they are nestled the wrong way. 

Like already said, I don't believe the forces or anyone would train someone with a potential hazard to themselves on a specific platform. The CF have measures in place to determine your suitability prior to any training. 

This gentleman was on the Viper East demo team as a exchange pilot from England.


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## Magic (12 Jan 2009)

Well I am at ASC currently awaiting my first run at the CAPSS sim. 

I must say the room which I was put me is nice and the people are very friendly. There are currently 11 applicants here mostly ROTP but a few CEOTP. I have ample amounts of time to do whatever. 

My first day(today) started early at 0740. We wrote an experimental test untll 1130. The test you cannot prepare for and is quite fun. HOWEVER, it does not count for anything. 


My first CAPSS trial is in about an hour or so. 

Wish me luck !


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## Corey Darling (12 Jan 2009)

> The test you cannot prepare for and is quite fun. HOWEVER, it does not count for anything.



Is that the one with the computers and joysticks? Sure looked fun when I went, but they were still setting it up.

Do you still have to write the written AirNav exam?

Guess it's late for a good luck on today's session, but good luck on the others  : )


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## aesop081 (12 Jan 2009)

Corey Darling said:
			
		

> Do you still have to write the written AirNav exam?



That would be "ACSO exams" now


----------



## Corey Darling (12 Jan 2009)

Right, I knew it had changed. But I wasn't sure to what - too much jargon to learn  ;D


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## Magic (12 Jan 2009)

yes, I still have to write the ASWO exam I beleive Wednesday. The "joystick" exam was fun and abit challenging on the later stages. 


My first sim sessions went overal pretty good i hope. I messed up once when I was suppose to do a striahgt a level flight I had sworn they asked for a decend to a different altitude. I however did not crash the machine. 

Tomorrow is another day !


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## aesop081 (12 Jan 2009)

Magic said:
			
		

> yes, I still have to write the ASWO exam I beleive Wednesday.



The what exams ?


----------



## Magic (12 Jan 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The what exams ?



haha my fault.

the ACSO exam, I dont know where I got that from.


----------



## gwones (4 Mar 2009)

Hello everyone, thanks in advance for viewing this post. I have searched the forum numerous times but I could not find a specific answer I was looking for. 

I am currently a 09-10 ROTP applicant(1st choice - RMC; 2nd choice - UWO CAMP; Pilot was the _only_ trade listed on the application), waiting to attend the Aircrew Selection at Trenton very soon.

I wish to know if it is mandatory for '_Pilot-only_' applicants to write the ACSO written exam besides the CAPSS. I was assuming that the written exam is for applicants who put down both Air Nav and Pilot as their options on their application(Please correct me if I am wrong). I also read from one of the posts saying that DEO applicants are not required to write the ACSO exam. I am a little bit confused as I am trying to cram all the informations into one clear answer.

I would greatly appreciate if any of the readers could provide some of the details.

Thanks again for your time and good luck to all applicants.

EDIT: If it is '_voluntary_' to write the ACSO exam, would it cause any disadvantage for the applicant if he/she chooses not to write it?


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## dimsum (4 Mar 2009)

Why wouldn't you want to write it?  

Edited to add:  Also, if the system allows you a free shot at another (related) trade, I'd take it and at least see how I did.  But I'm obviously being biased here    :2c:


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## Klinkaroo (4 Mar 2009)

Not answering the questions but if you right it and score well wouldn't it just make your file look nicer and make you look like someone who makes an effort?


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## gwones (4 Mar 2009)

Thank you and I appreciate your opinions.

It may sound stupid some readers but I wish to fully concentrate on CAPSS and do not take the extra pressure and burden on my shoulder preparing for the written exam(Only if the test is '_optional_'). If it is a necessary exam, however; I would definitely put my best effort. I have already all-in for pilot and it is the only goal I am dreaming to achieve(Please don't get me wrong, I do not mean to neglect other trades).

I guess I'm just nervous and feel like I'm short of time.


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## dimsum (4 Mar 2009)

It's been a long time since I've written the Air Nav exam, but I didn't think there was even anything to prepare; you walked in cold (or at least I did when it was done at CFRCs.)  So, it shouldn't take away any studying time from the CAPSS.  

It could have changed since then though.


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## SupersonicMax (4 Mar 2009)

If you really don't want to take ASCO, then I would not bother doing it.  It would be a waste of time for everyone, you included.


----------



## prima6 (4 Mar 2009)

As was mentioned above, successfully writing the ACSO exam may make your application more attractive.  If you were DEO and only wanted pilot then you'd obviously not want to or not care about writing the ACSO exam.  The difference if you go to RMC is that you will be enrolled without an MOSID; you will be assigned an MOSID grouping (Pilot, ACSO, and AEC are in one group, Air Operations).  You are assigned an MOSID after 1st year.  You will be ranked against your peers in your grouping and offered MOSIDs based on where you ranked and what MOSID you wanted and/or met the eligibility criteria for.  I can't say specifically how the selection board for RMC enrollment works, but I would imagine that an Air Operations applicant that met the eligibility criteria for all three MOSIDs would, all things being equal, be a more attractive candidate.  You can decline the MOSID offered and release from the forces without penalty after your first year.

That said, there isn't much to prepare for either the CAPSS or the ACSO exam.  The ACSO exam is basically an aptitude exam with an emphasis on math and spatial awareness.  The math required is high school level as you'd expect so some review if you need it may help.  CAPSS attempts to predict your probability of passing PFT and BFT.  The only studying I'm aware of that is noted to have any effect on your ability to pass the CAPSS is actual flying training... one of the reasons that the only way to do CAPSS a second time after a failure is to get a pilot's license or upgrade to a higher level license (ie private to commercial).


----------



## gwones (4 Mar 2009)

Thanks again for taking your time to post great advice.

One thing I am really worried about is that: if I have taken the opportunity to write the test and receive an unsatisfactory result it would bring down my competitiveness, in terms of my application. If this was the case, wouldn't it be better not to write the exam in the first place rather than failing it?

I'm starting to think, why not just take the challenge and write it because the chances are 50/50 anyways? 

Thanks again everyone, I'd appreciate any further advice.


----------



## prima6 (4 Mar 2009)

gwones said:
			
		

> Thanks again for taking your time to post great advice.
> 
> One thing I am really worried about is that: if I have taken the opportunity to write the test and receive an unsatisfactory result it would bring down my competitiveness, in terms of my application. If this was the case, wouldn't it be better not to write the exam in the first place rather than failing it?
> 
> ...



Honestly, if you're reasonably intelligent, have good spatial awareness and have recently done grade 12 math I'd say your chances of passing the exam are much better than 50/50.


----------



## Corey Darling (4 Mar 2009)

I'd do it.  :nod:

Like was mentioned, it will make your application look that much better.  I'm sure they would like to hire pilots who can do math 

But i know what you mean. I passed both, but really only want pilot.... Which makes me wonder if I should have put 3 choices down for my MOC when I signed up.

The test is tricky though, I found the most difficult part was the last section - No calculations involved, just need to be good with graphs.


----------



## KingKikapu (5 Mar 2009)

I better destroy this test or I will look like a total schmuck haha.

I have a math major buddy who failed the math component of his CF pilot training.  Ouch.


----------



## maniac779 (5 Mar 2009)

gwones said:
			
		

> One thing I am really worried about is that: if I have taken the opportunity to write the test and receive an unsatisfactory result it would bring down my competitiveness, in terms of my application. If this was the case, wouldn't it be better not to write the exam in the first place rather than failing it?
> 
> I'm starting to think, why not just take the challenge and write it because the chances are 50/50 anyways?



Dude. Chill.

If you are worrying at this level of detail, you may as well start shaking in your boots about the bus that might hit you tomorrow when you step off the curb.

Just be as competitive as you can be. Chances are, a little detail like this is not going to make or break you if you want to get in for pilot.

But if you do get picked up, try to calm the old nerves a bit. I watch guys fail rides here in Moose Jaw all the time because they analyze stuff like this to death, instead of just going out and doing what they know how to do.

Relax.


----------



## ballz (5 Mar 2009)

KingKikapu said:
			
		

> I better destroy this test or I will look like a total schmuck haha.
> 
> I have a math major buddy who failed the math component of his CF pilot training.  Ouch.



I wrote it in Feb of 08... Honestly, it has nothing to do with how good you are at math. You could probably grab 10 kids out of a grade 4 class and at least 50% of them would pass it given an unlimited amount of time. It is not a test of mathematical ability.

EDIT: Just to be clear I'm talking about the Air Nav test that you do at ASC


----------



## KingKikapu (5 Mar 2009)

Funny thing is my arithmetic is slow as molasses.  I got so used to working like a physicist (IE equations/derivations only.  Arithmetic isn't math.) that I haven't crunched numbers in years.  In any event, I'm not that worried.


----------



## Corey Darling (5 Mar 2009)

I just remembered, the new Nav test is likely going to be available by the time you arrive. 

Its all on the computer using a joystick.


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## TimBit (5 Mar 2009)

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is this:

the DWAN ASC page states that students can take the ACSO tests if they so wish (going from memory here). Now from an overall perspective I do agree that writing it beefs up your application, but then, I'm neither a pilot nor ACSO...yet.


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## Zoomie (5 Mar 2009)

Take the test - it probably won't be voluntary when you are in Trenton.  If you fail it - oh well...  Your rating on the ACSO portion of aircrew won't really be on the forefront of the pilot selection board member's minds.


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## Barts (5 Mar 2009)

From what I recall (Jun 08), writing the Nav test was not an option, it was part of the selection course.

CAPSS isn't something you can really study for, anyways.


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## ScottS (6 Mar 2009)

I was at CFASC in January, and the ACSO test was optional.  It took place in the afternoon after we received our CAPSS results.  A number of people who passed CAPSS did not write the ACSO exam.  Everyone who failed CAPSS wrote the exam, even those that weren't really interested in being an ACSO.

The computer based testing is the first thing you do upon arrival, and I was under the impression that it will not be used for any actual selection for at least a couple years.

To be completely honest, I don't think that doing well on the ACSO exam would have any impact at all on your competitiveness as a pilot applicant, although as an Air Ops applicant it may be different.  I was accepted for Air Ops prior to even completing aircrew, so who knows how the system works.

I passed CAPSS and wrote the ACSO exam for fun, and found it to be pretty easy.  I'd recommend that if you have any interest/potential interest in being an ACSO, write the test.  Who knows, you might fail your flying training and have to spend a few years doing something else before your obligatory service is over.  There's no need to really worry about it though, there's not much you can do to prepare; just like CAPSS, it's essentially an aptitude test, for the most part you either have the skills or you don't.


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## yoman (6 Mar 2009)

I'm going to echo what ScottS said. I just got back from ACS last night after the medicals in Toronto and we were all given the option of writing the ACSO exam. Like was said before, the computer based testing will not be implemented for another few years according to the staff at ACS. 

A new development is that ACSO candidates are no longer required to go to Toronto for medical testing. Therefore, only those pilots candidates who pass CAPSS will continue to Toronto.


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## gwones (10 Mar 2009)

Thanks again everyone, I'll keep those in mind!


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## gwones (19 Mar 2009)

Hello readers, I will just continue in this post with another question arose to me.

I have recently received a phone call from DRDC Toronto asking me how I am planning to travel to Trenton. Before I hung up, the lady on the phone(cannot recall her name) told me something about a medical claim(?) that I have to pick up a week before the Aircrew Selection. I asked her what it meant but she talked very fast and I did not fully understand. Having said that, I decided to call DRDC Toronto what exactly it was about but nobody answered the phone, same as the Recruiting Centre.

I wish to ask you, was there anything(paperwork, anything to pick up) besides the blue book, that you had to pick up and visit the Recruiting Centre(in prior to the Aircrew Selection Course)? I am going to call them again soon but it is a little confusing.

Thanks in advance for your time to read this post!
Have a great day


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## aesop081 (19 Mar 2009)

Your CFRC will give you a travel claim. This is what you need in addition to the blue book.

How are you getting to Trenton ?


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## ScottS (19 Mar 2009)

You are required to hand carry your medical documents to the CFASC.  You will have to pick these up (or have them sent to you) from the recruiting centre before you leave.


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## gwones (23 Mar 2009)

Thanks again for your comments guys.

I was scheduled to attend the ASC this week(23rd-27th) and I picked up my travel claim last Friday. When I came home I've read "CDN Aviator" and "ScottS" comments then I realized "Oh no! My med docs!".

So I called the RC about this and I was told that my med docs had not been arrived from Ottawa and I had to be removed from this week's course. They said it's strange because the docs were sent 2 weeks ago but still not received.

It's all good. Looking on the bright side, I have extra days to prepare for myself. Hopefully things will get sorted out very soon


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## SkyHeff (29 Mar 2009)

Oh, so you were the lucky number 13. There were 13 names on the board day one, and then one was removed early into the testing.

We had 9/12 guys pass (which apparently isn't the norm), and I think only 2 wrote the ACSO exam of the 12.


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## px90 (29 Mar 2009)

Heff18 said:
			
		

> Oh, so you were the lucky number 13. There were 13 names on the board day one, and then one was removed early into the testing.
> 
> We had 9/12 guys pass (which apparently isn't the norm), and I think only 2 wrote the ACSO exam of the 12.



What is the norm?


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## Corey Darling (29 Mar 2009)

About 50% average I think based on what I've read from others who have gone through.

Edit:

They told our group that they don't need to pass anyone. Sometimes of a group of 10-13, no-one will pass.

Other cases, like this one, almost the whole group passed. Which is not too common.


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## gwones (1 Apr 2009)

There is a part of "me" trying to accept this situation positively and theres the other part of "me" starting to become a little worried.

It has been just over a week and I was not able to get any news regarding this matter. I'm a person who hate to blame and complain but I'm just a little worried that there might be something wrong. Anyways, I'm sure to believe that someone is working very hard at this hour to get this resolved.

Also, congratulations to everyone who had passed the exam. I wish you all best of luck in further selection process. (If I were there and had passed the course that would have been 10/12!  ;D)


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## KingKikapu (2 Apr 2009)

In case those reading this thread have not yet heard, there will be ZERO openings for PILOT in any entry format for the next fiscal year.  This has been confirmed by myself and many others through recruitment centres.  Be prepared for a long, long wait.


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## biggs (19 Apr 2009)

A link to the thread where people have reported this might be helpful.  I saw KingKikapu's post first and it freaked me out a bit. 

http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/threads/84928.0.html


----------



## KingKikapu (19 Apr 2009)

Still true though.


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## biggs (3 May 2009)

Well, sort of.  I checked with my CFRC and they confirmed they currently had no available pilot positions.  However they had one available on Apr. 1, and it had been filled.  I guess the tap is not completely shut off.  Perhaps more will be opened up later in the year.

They are still sending me to CFASC, as well.


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## Arctic007 (5 May 2009)

biggs said:
			
		

> Well, sort of.  I checked with my CFRC and they confirmed they currently had no available pilot positions.  However they had one available on Apr. 1, and it had been filled.  I guess the tap is not completely shut off.  Perhaps more will be opened up later in the year.
> 
> They are still sending me to CFASC, as well.



My two cents....if being a pilot is what you want to do, keep trying.  You only do ASC once so if you get it, you can always apply when things open up.  It means you have the necessary skills/aptitudes to one day be given the opportunity to fly.  That being said, i've served 11 years before getting my shot at being Pilot and in the process, i've done and seen some pretty amazing things in my career.  That's the beautiful thing about the CF, tons of opportunities and they provide you the tools to become what you want.  Joining to be in one trade is cheating yourself.  Keep your eyes on the prize, but don't shut out to other opportunities the CF can offer.  No regrets.


----------



## biggs (5 May 2009)

I definitely hear what you're saying, and I would certainly consider other career possibilities in the CF if things don't work out.  Having an electrical engineering degree will mean most of the engineering trades are a possibility for me.  (Possibly all of them, I don't know for sure if any are discipline-specific.)  However, at the moment I'm committed to pursuing a pilot spot all the way.  It's just a case of unfortunate timing for me since currently, there aren't any.


----------



## gwones (11 May 2009)

Thanks guys, for keeping the updates coming.

There had not been great news, as you all may know already. I received a phone call from the CFRC that I will have to wait longer to see if there will be a third round selection but I was told that I shouldn't count on it.

I had difficult days, just like many others, trying to decide what to do next. This January, I had applied to other colleges(aviation-related) that I did not mention on the ROTP application(as a backup plan) and I had no other choice but to accept one of the colleges before their deadline, which was May 1st.

I will be attending Confederation College for Aviation program, and that is if I don't receive any further news from CFRC.

But hey, it's all good. There is always next year!

How's everyone else handling their situation?


----------



## biggs (29 May 2009)

Well, I'm confirmed going to CFASC for June 1-5 (leaving May 30, coming back June 6).  I got this confirmation several days ago, I'm only just posting about it now.  Also, as a side note, I got a civvy job in Ottawa, so I can be a Productive Member of Society™ (rather than an unemployed bum) while I wait for DEO Pilot to open up.


----------



## biggs (8 Jun 2009)

... and I passed CAPSS.  Yay is me!  No immediately apparent issues on the medicals either, although I was told the final word on that takes 1-4 weeks.

Guess now I just wait (... and wait ... and wait).  Also, I guess I'll have to see about switching to CFRC Ottawa since I'll be living there starting June 12.


----------



## gwones (17 Jun 2009)

Congratulations biggs! It is always good to see people progressing through their dreams.

Although I have not heard anything from the RC ever since I posted my last reply here, I think I'm going to settle with Confederation College Aviation program for now. Once I graduate, I am planning to look for a way to apply directly as an Officer with aviation-related diploma. Hopefully there will be more opportunities in the future.

Good Luck, I really hope you get selected and keep us informed!


----------



## Dou You (22 Aug 2009)

So I passed for both Pilot and ACSO this past week! I'm definitely pumped! But now I wait...

I want to be accepted for ROTP Civi University. Unfortunately I put my application in for 2009-2010 ROTP around the start of February which was too late for selection. So it will be over a years wait since I started the process to be finally accepted for ROTP Pilot for 2010-2011. At least if I am accepted it will be that much more special. 

I was just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me on here? Anyone who has passed CAPSS and is now hurrying up and waiting for acceptance into ROTP for 2010-2011?

Cheers


----------



## gwones (18 Oct 2009)

Hey guys,

First of all, to everyone who were selected to go to RMC this year, I hope everyone is doing well. (How is it by the way?) I just wanted to drop by again and share some of my new stories so hopefully other fellow ROTP applicants for 2010-2011 have something to read about.

As I've written on my previous reply, I didn't get the call for my ROTP 2009-2010 application so I took my 'Plan B' (actually I was a little disappointed in not being selected) which was going to the Confederation College for Flight Program. I knew at heart that becoming a military pilot was THE dream of mine but I also thought that becoming a civilian pilot isn't bad at all. Plus I was under the pressure that I should quickly move on with my life. So I decided to settle with going with the Commercial Pilot route.

Just 7 more days until my flight to Thunder Bay, my family ran into a financial trouble. I had to make a decision to cancel the flight, cancel my admission, get the tuition refund and use it to support my family. I was happy that I was able to help my family but down deep I was very frustrated because I did not have a Plan C. From the next day I started looking for a full-time job to save up the tuition so I can go to the College next year.

My family suggested that I visit the CFRC to arrange a new ROTP application but I really didn't wanted to give it another shot maybe because I was afraid of getting rejected again. So I faced the reality and tried to focus on saving up the tuition.

But then,

One day I got a phone call from the CFRC. The Cpt. asked me what I've been doing lately so I explained my situation. He asked me to come in so we could arrange a new application for next year. I asked him what exactly happened to my application last year and he said that all the pilots were selected even before my application was in(I submitted my application very late). At that very moment I remembered what the Lt. had told me way back in February as we were doing the interview. He said that my timing was terrible so if, for any reason, I don't receive an offer, it could be only because of my bad timing.

A few days later, I went to the CFRC to see the Cpt., we went over the application and I scheduled for an update interview which is next Tuesday afternoon. The thing is that, if I never received the phone call from the CFRC, I would never have thought of giving another shot at this. Hopefully things will work out this time 

// By the way, I have searched this forum to find information about 'update' interview and found out that it is only a 5-10 min sit-and-talk, not like the very first interview where you are asked about school, work, personal qualities, and etc. Rather, you are only asked occupation-specific questions. Can anyone with experience please confirm this?


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## biggs (19 Oct 2009)

Hey gwones, so it sounds like you have another shot at ROTP.  That's great!

Whatever the 'update interview' entails, I wouldn't sweat it too much.  The ones you've read about are probably for people who've done the full interview for one trade, but decided to switch and go for another.  That's what the Captain who interviewed me said would be required if I decided to apply for another trade (I asked about it, because if I'd failed CAPPS I would have considered others).  Even if it is the full interview, you've done it before, surely you can handle it again.  You'd probably even do better, being a little older, a little wiser, and having learned a bit more about what they look for.

As for me, my recruiting file finally made the long trek here to Ottawa.  The CFRC called me and said they have it now, and asked for new university transcripts, since the ones they had were from before I graduated, and they need to know I actually got my piece of paper if they're going to let me in as a DEO.  So now I can relax and just sit on my hands until next April, when I hope to hear good news.


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## gwones (19 Oct 2009)

biggs said:
			
		

> Hey gwones, so it sounds like you have another shot at ROTP.  That's great!
> 
> Whatever the 'update interview' entails, I wouldn't sweat it too much.  The ones you've read about are probably for people who've done the full interview for one trade, but decided to switch and go for another.  That's what the Captain who interviewed me said would be required if I decided to apply for another trade (I asked about it, because if I'd failed CAPPS I would have considered others).  Even if it is the full interview, you've done it before, surely you can handle it again.  You'd probably even do better, being a little older, a little wiser, and having learned a bit more about what they look for.
> 
> As for me, my recruiting file finally made the long trek here to Ottawa.  The CFRC called me and said they have it now, and asked for new university transcripts, since the ones they had were from before I graduated, and they need to know I actually got my piece of paper if they're going to let me in as a DEO.  So now I can relax and just sit on my hands until next April, when I hope to hear good news.



Hey biggs! I'm glad to hear that your application is finally put together. I hope everything works out for you!

The Captain that I sat and talked with, repeated this three times "It is IMPORTANT to know about the training. Watch the videos" so I thought this new update interview would be focused on the occupation specific questions. Also I was told to dress casual.

I'm confident that I know the trainings well but when it comes to personal qualities questions, there are too many things that I have to prepare thats why 

Anyways, we'll see what happens tomorrow afternoon  I'll post an update once the interview is over.

Good luck to you biggs!


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## Loachman (19 Oct 2009)

Persistence pays. It gives one a chance of success.

Giving up gives one no chance of success at all.

By the way, the Canadian abbreviation for Captain is "Capt". "Cpt" is American.


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## gwones (19 Oct 2009)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Persistence pays. It gives one a chance of success.
> 
> Giving up gives one no chance of success at all.
> 
> By the way, the Canadian abbreviation for Captain is "Capt". "Cpt" is American.



Hello Loachman,

Thanks for your advice. You're right, persistence pays off in the future.
This time, I will do my best to go all the way.

And thanks for the correction!


----------



## Dou You (19 Oct 2009)

Good luck gwones! I'm a fellow ROTP Pilot applicant for next year. It's good to hear your process is back on track though. Just keep positive throughout it all and it'll work out fine.

Cheers.


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## gwones (19 Oct 2009)

Dou You said:
			
		

> Good luck gwones! I'm a fellow ROTP Pilot applicant for next year. It's good to hear your process is back on track though. Just keep positive throughout it all and it'll work out fine.
> 
> Cheers.



Hey Dou You,

Thanks and same to you too! It's going to be a long wait until we hear the news but let's keep the hopes up 

Good luck!


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## Loachman (20 Oct 2009)

gwones said:
			
		

> You're right, persistence pays off in the future.



You may or may not actually have the ability to fly, or at least to learn to the required standard within the time alotted. You may be one of the people who just gets nervous during flying tests. You may just be unlucky at the wrong time.

You have little control over those things.

You do have absolute control over the effort that you put in - working hard and excelling at academics and being as prepared as possible for each and every flight.

If you want your wings enough, if you are persistent enough, you can compensate somewhat for the things over which you have no control, and that may be enough to achieve your wings.

And, should you not make it, you will at least know that you did everything humanly possible; that is honourable, no matter how disappointing, and nobody has the right to look down upon someone who puts everything into such a goal but doesn't quite attain it.

I worked harder for my wings than for anything before or since. In some ways it was easy, because I had that goal, but it was also a long process, and seeing others drop out for one reason or another constantly injects an element of self-doubt.

That's where the persistence comes in.

Keep at it.

And feel free to use my secret self-motivational technique: when in doubt, remind yourself that "dumber people than me have been able to do this".

And good luck to you (all) too. That also makes a big difference, and is partially why I'm here.


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## gwones (10 Dec 2009)

Thank you Loachman(and I'm sorry for the late reply),
I will always keep that "dumber people than me have been able to do this" technique in mind 

My Aircrew Selection is next week, getting ready to go on this Sunday!

By the way, I had a question about the 'dress code'. On the instructions document it says:
"No denim jeans, T-shirts, shorts, running shoes or sandals. Flat soled shoes are recommended."
Could anyone that already attended the course please provide some more information?
What's been listed not-to-wear are pretty much the only types of clothes I wear so I was wondering what else is appropriate.
Flat shoes like converse, dress shoes, cargo pants even a formal dress(only the bottom) perhaps?

Thanks again guys, and please! wish me luck!

gwones


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## mover1 (10 Dec 2009)

Holy crap man I think they mean something like business casual. 
a set of dress pants/a shirt with a collar/ and some dress shoes.
or if a fairer sex....
A set of dress slacks/ a blouse/ and a flat soled dress shoe (no heels)

Should cost you  all of $50 bucks at Walmart.

Please don't be  "that guy" and do something just because the rules were vauge. Start using your noggin!
CONVERSE??????????How about some  bright pink DC skater shoes. the soles are flat. Remember your trying to impress and sell yourself at the same time.


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## Loachman (10 Dec 2009)

It was jacket and tie when I went through, as we ate in the Officers' Mess at Downsview (where ACS was done in those days) as that was the dress code for dinner. Every item of one fellow's clothing was a different loud colour, none of which complimented another.

He didn't make it.

Biting a couple of people didn't help him either.

Showing up "dressed for success" demonstrates that you care enough to put effort into something.


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## gwones (10 Dec 2009)

mover1 said:
			
		

> Holy crap man I think they mean something like business casual.
> a set of dress pants/a shirt with a collar/ and some dress shoes.
> or if a fairer sex....
> A set of dress slacks/ a blouse/ and a flat soled dress shoe (no heels)
> ...



Thanks,

I was thinking about the interview and was hoping to know if ACS is in a similar atmosphere.


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## gwones (10 Dec 2009)

Loachman said:
			
		

> It was jacket and tie when I went through, as we ate in the Officers' Mess at Downsview (where ACS was done in those days) as that was the dress code for dinner. Every item of one fellow's clothing was a different loud colour, none of which complimented another.
> 
> He didn't make it.
> 
> ...



Thanks Loachman,

I have misunderstood the word casual civilian 'dress'. I was thinking casual civilian 'clothes', that's where I got a little confused. My bad


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## gwones (22 Dec 2009)

Hey guys, sorry for the late update on the forum.

I came back from Trenton last week, unsuccessful  7 people were in the course and 4 people made it. Although I failed the exam, I had so much fun while I was in the base. I gotta tell you, the food is amazing!!!

Great thing about the ASC is that you are actually staying in the base so you get to meet people that are currently in the forces, just about anywhere you go. Also 5 out of 7 applicants were currently in the military. One person is in Armoured Recon, other is an MP, Avionics, Infantry etc. Hearing different point of views from the experienced people really helped me re-discover my interest in different types of occupations offered in the CF.

I can say to you that I've learned so much than what I've lost during the stay in Trenton. For anyone getting ready to attend the ASC, go in open-minded and you will discover a lot of new things just like I did  

So now pilot is off the list(which was the only choice in my ROTP application) and I put 3 new trades which are Logistics/Artillery/Armour. I was actually considering NCM path(AES Op/AC Op) but I was told to continue on with this application since I came this far. The counsellor also told me that he received an e-mail from RMC saying my application was approved and good to proceed further(actually never knew that RMC approves your application first).

Anyways, that was my story! happy and excited again  Congratulations again to those who passed the ASC last week!!!

P.S // If you're doing an interview for the third time, would it be a short update interview? or is it the long one that covers all three occupations that I chose?


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## biggs (23 Dec 2009)

Hey gwones, sorry to hear that.  Did you write the ACSO exam in case you decide to go that route?

There were a few already serving members in the group when I went.  One was a navy MARS officer, another was an infantry officer, and one was a ~40yo ACSO.  There were also a couple of reserve infantry guys.

Anyway, it sounds like you're in RMC regardless, so good luck in your future.


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## phildabomb (3 May 2010)

how often and on what basis does aircrew selection choose its candidates??? i applied this year but they turned me down because i have no flying hours, and i am just finishing up high school. i am although getting my glider license this summer through cadets


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## 2010newbie (3 May 2010)

There are a ton of posts regarding Aircrew Selection, if you search you will find them (try CFASC). I found this one to be helpful when I was researching for CFASC - http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/70257.0.html

I think you need to understand why your application was denied because lack of flying hours is not a reason. You also did not mention if you completed the course and failed or if you never were selected to go to the course.


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## phildabomb (3 May 2010)

well i dont really know, they said they were only hiring about 20 to 30 pilots this year and were choosing ones with lots of flying experience and degrees, so thats probly why. would having written and passing the air nav exam also help my pilot application?


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## 2010newbie (3 May 2010)

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/82669.0.html

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/12744.0.html

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/62660.0.html

I suggest backing up and starting from the beginning. Read these forums and they will answer your questions.


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## Loachman (3 May 2010)

And please capitalize properly.


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## phildabomb (6 May 2010)

Hello, I was wondering if anyone knows how long it takes the Air Force to hire pilots after a potential candidate has completed aircrew selection? I am still waiting for a call to the selection though, and I am hoping gaining flying hours this summer will help. I have also done a lot of research about aircrew selection, including visiting the website  http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/8w-8e/nr-sp/index-eng.asp?id=8252. It says that a candidate does four missions, but do they make their decision based on the final mission, or on all of the different missions?
Thanks for the help

Phil


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## Griffon (6 May 2010)

Read the advice on your last thread...SEARCH, all this info is on this site.  Trust me, I found it all when I started looking for it.


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## phildabomb (6 May 2010)

Okay I will thank you!


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## 2011Applicant (7 Feb 2011)

The two classifications that I put down on my application were ACSO, and IntO.
I have done CFAT, Medical, Eye tests, ECG, blood test, urine test, chest xray, Aircrew Test, and Interview.
I thought that I was done, but then my file manager called me last week and said I had to go to ACS in the next couple weeks.
I've already done the  ACSO test, so I was wondering why I need to go do CAPSS and all that.
Also, do we get paid when we go to this? Seeing as in some cases we need to book a whole week off of work, it would sure be nice.
A final question, do we get some sort of uniform to wear during this? Or do we have to be Susies for the week.

tl;dr - ACSO, why am I needed for CAPSS, Do we get paid, Do we get a uniform.


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## Zoomie (7 Feb 2011)

2011Applicant said:
			
		

> tl;dr - ACSO, why am I needed for CAPSS, Do we get paid, Do we get a uniform.



Unsure of why you need CAPSS, especially if you have already done the ACSO written exams.

No pay and no uniform.


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## 2011Applicant (7 Feb 2011)

No doubt.
The Career Councillor that interviewed me was an ACSO too, and he didn't say anything about having to do ACS.
He told me that I was finished and just needed to wait for my air factor to come back so they could send my file to Kingston.


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## trampbike (7 Feb 2011)

2011Applicant said:
			
		

> Do we get paid



You will receive a 17,30$ daily allowance while in Trenton... The CF takes care of the transportation, food and hotel for you. The food in Trenton is awesome.

I have no idea why you need to do CAPPS, but enjoy it if you go. It can be very fun and you'll learn basic instruments scan. ( I can't say I had that much "fun", since I was way too anxious about passing! I'm only applying for pilot thought).


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## 2011Applicant (7 Feb 2011)

trampbike said:
			
		

> You will receive a 17,30$ daily allowance while in Trenton


What is there to spend money on?


----------



## dimsum (7 Feb 2011)

2011Applicant said:
			
		

> What is there to spend money on?



Nothing, if you do it right.  If you're old enough to drink, maybe a beverage...


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## 2011Applicant (7 Feb 2011)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Nothing, if you do it right.  If you're old enough to drink, maybe a beverage...


Alas, I'm only 18.


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## a.schamb (8 Feb 2011)

2011Applicant said:
			
		

> What is there to spend money on?



If you don't want the mess food, there's a few restaurants in town. There's also a Tim Horton's if you want a coffee or something


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## 2011Applicant (8 Feb 2011)

a.schamb said:
			
		

> If you don't want the mess food, there's a few restaurants in town. There's also a Tim Horton's if you want a coffee or something


From the sound of it the food's pretty good, so I don't think that will be necessary


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## a.schamb (8 Feb 2011)

2011Applicant said:
			
		

> From the sound of it the food's pretty good, so I don't think that will be necessary



Yep, I agree with that   If you have time while you're there, I recommend the Air Force museum. It's pretty good


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## 2011Applicant (14 Feb 2011)

*UPDATE*

Talked to my file manager today, and he had received word last week that I did not need to attend.
Time to hurry up and wait to hear back from RMC!


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## a.schamb (15 Feb 2011)

Good luck!


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## johnsr19 (16 Jul 2012)

I recently completed ASC in Trenton and the medical process at DRDC in Toronto over a month ago.  I have been in contact with my recruiters office and file manager but they were unable to give me a rough timeline of when they should receive the results from the medical.  I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light on the rough amount of time it takes from personal experience for the medical to be signed off at DRDC and sent back to the recruiters so that the process can move on to the next phase?


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## Bernardjmarx (17 Jul 2012)

When exactly did you do your medical at DRDC?  I finished aircrew selection in Trenton, followed by two days of medical at DRDC from May 28 to June 1st and I still haven't been awarded my air factor yet.  The last DEO pilot hiring is July 25th...


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## 2010newbie (17 Jul 2012)

Take a look through the thread below and you can find some timings for the Air Factor. It wil always vary depending on your file and the workload at the time, but mine took about month in 2010.

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/13064.3100.html


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## skrob (22 Jul 2012)

I think it all depends on how busy they are, how much they need pilots, and what the training backlog looks like.  For example, I did my DRDC medicals on April 19, and on April 27 I got an offer to attend BMOQ beginning April 30.  So 8 days in my case.  3 people from my aircrew group swore in on the 27th and are on BMOQ right now.


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## pthebeau (24 Jul 2012)

skrob said:
			
		

> I think it all depends on how busy they are, how much they need pilots, and what the training backlog looks like.  For example, I did my DRDC medicals on April 19, and on April 27 I got an offer to attend BMOQ beginning April 30.  So 8 days in my case.  3 people from my aircrew group swore in on the 27th and are on BMOQ right now.



I'd like to add:
It can also depend heavily on how your medical went.  If you're V1, zero medical concerns, everything else meeting the standard then you may get your air factor rather quickly.  Then it's simply a matter of the paper work getting to the right place at the right time.

The "last" selection is July 24th, but if they don't meet their recruiting quotas, I would expect other selections to be scheduled.

A fact you can always count on is: 
Process is different for everyone.
My advice, which I have followed thus far:
Inquire briefly every 2 weeks and try to forget about it.  That way I won't be going nuts waiting for a phone call that may never come.


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## johnsr19 (27 Jul 2012)

Thanks for the replies.  I actually just got the call today with an offer for Pilot and I did my medical during ASC June 18-22, so apparently I managed to get my Air Factor after about a month.  I never got a call saying I was merit listed though so I do not know exactly how long it took to get my Air Factor.


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## pthebeau (1 Aug 2012)

Congratulations!

You don't get a call for being merit listed hehe.  And they can still offer you the position without your air factor, its simply a "conditional" offer, where they would take it away if your air factor isn't 1.


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## shogun506 (1 Aug 2012)

Just passed my aircrew selection course today and wanted to post here half out of excitement and half with my impressions. I haven't gone through the medical yet since our week is a little different as the med center is closed this week so those of us that passed will be attending that part 2 weeks from now.

First of all - our course was relatively small and consisted of 5 people doing pilot and 1 doing AEC only. 1 of the pilot candidates was PPL. After the first day, the AEC candidate left. Also, after doing the first hour of the simulator on day 1, 1 candidate was immediately told it was unlikely they would succeed in the following sessions based on hour 1 and was recommended to withdraw, which they did. In the end, 3/4 remaining passed. While I thought the atmosphere would be competitive, the 4 of us that remained were very friendly and we were sad to see that 1 of us had failed.

My impressions:
I found that the first session was not difficult and was more about getting a feel for the sim than actual manouevering. It was not overly stressful and most of us felt we did alright. The 2nd session was a little more complex but I feel I really nailed that one. The 3rd session was a little more difficult and most of us seemed to have trouble with it, even the PPL. The final session we all found to be very, very difficult. I practiced it over and over in my head and was very nervous after coming out because my results were definitely not ideal. On the other hand, I cannot picture anyone flying the final hour perfectly and I think that algorithm has been designed with that in mind. Keep your cool, yell at the machine all you need to, talk it over in your head before you begin and be as accurate as possible in everything and you will likely be successful. I found the sims were definitely a test of aptitude, information, and stress management. We all found it very frustrating to not know what the parameters of the machine were. I liken it to writing a test you've studied for but the questions are abstract and you cannot see the answer key - you know relatively how you did but you do not know what could have improved your score. That said, I feel the test was fair and that it was a good indicator of whether a person has the right skills to be trained to fly.

Tips:
These are just things I found helped and while some is the same as what others have posted, some is different.
-DO NOT throw the AEC test. It's not just for AECs and some of those tests are pilot specific, although they don't tell you which. If you think it's just an AEC test, that's wrong. Speaking to Captain Larose (the officer in charge of the CFASC and who you deal with when you get here), the cognitive and mathematical tests are now worked into your overall application to determine your MP when you are merit listed. This means if you decide to do badly on them, it hurts your chances. Cpt. Larose could be wrong, but a) what are the chances, b) why risk it?
-Study the guide but don't over analyze it. Everything is reviewed in the simulator before you begin each exercise. We stopped bringing our books to the sims after the first session because we realized we didn't need them.
-Spend some time on microsoft flight sim flying the Cessna 172 focusing on your instruments. It doesn't matter if you have a fancy flying set up because it will definitely be different than CAPSS. I used a playstation controller and it was way too sensitive but it helped me a lot as it let me see how the individual instruments reacted in different manoeuvres, which is the most important thing in CAPSS. 
-Personally, I found that not having flight experience in a real plane was definitely not a detriment, and may even have been beneficial because I didn't expect the controls to react in a certain way and therefore was not surprised at how CAPSS acted. The other candidates all had some flight hours and said that CAPSS was very different than what they were used to. Not previously flying might not be good for some people if you are slow to pick things up, but my point here is that if you do not get flight hours prior to CAPSS, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Flight sim X is more important because of the ability to demonstrate the instruments without confusing your muscle memory.

So there you have it - my experiences for the past 3 days here. What an experience it was, I have never been that nervous to hear a result about anything in my life and I would have been crushed if I had failed. Sorry if this was too long or was a restatement of previous information, it's hard not to be excited. Good luck everyone!


P.S. the museum is fantastic and the staff are very friendly older folks.


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## pthebeau (2 Aug 2012)

johnsr19 said:
			
		

> got the call today with an offer for Pilot



When do you go off to BMOQ?


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## johnsr19 (2 Aug 2012)

I'm in the BMOQ starting August 20


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## phildabomb (19 Aug 2012)

Hi everyone,

Earlier this year I was sent to Trenton for capss and failed with a ppl. I applied for ACSO instead, and I have received an offer! I'm going into second year university at UBC and I was wondering, if I can get my cpl during next summer and I accept the ACSO offer, would I be allowed to attend aircrew for a second time? 

Thanks for your help.

Phil


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## Zoomie (19 Aug 2012)

If you accept the ACSO offer, your MOSID is that of an ACSO. Once you are fully qualified and have served at least one operational tour, you may ask to re-tread to another trade.  Since this would be your second attempt at ASC, you will need to get that Commerical license.


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## dimsum (19 Aug 2012)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> If you accept the ACSO offer, your MOSID is that of an ACSO. Once you are fully qualified and have served at least one operational tour, you may ask to re-tread to another trade.  Since this would be your second attempt at ASC, you will need to get that Commerical license.



I'll add to this.  The time it takes to get fully qualified and finished one tour could take years, with training delays and OJT time factored in.  While I won't discourage you from doing it, just understand that it won't happen within the first few (or 4 or 5) years of joining as an ACSO.


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## phildabomb (20 Aug 2012)

Is it possible at all to transfer during my university years?


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## dimsum (20 Aug 2012)

phildabomb said:
			
		

> Is it possible at all to transfer during my university years?



Very, very unlikely.  Again, if you accept an offer as an ACSO, the career and training people will put you into an ACSO spot and as Zoomie and I have said, 99% of the time you will have to do an operational tour post-wings to be eligible to transfer.  I say 99% of the time b/c I'm sure there is that one exception to every rule.  But, I wouldn't bank on it.  

If you want Pilot so badly, stick to your guns and get your CPL, then reapply.  Don't take up an ACSO spot that someone wants on the off chance that you can swap trades after your obligatory time.


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## AGD (20 Aug 2012)

I think it's been established that the transfer scenario is unlikely, at least for a few years. That leaves the scenario where you turn down the ACSO offer and re-apply for pilot.

Keep in mind that getting your CPL does not guarantee you'll pass ASC for pilot on the next try. And that offer for ACSO under ROTP will never come back either. Also, we haven't even mentioned the expense of getting the CPL.


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## phildabomb (20 Aug 2012)

Thanks for all of your input everyone. ROTP ACSO is certainly a great opportunity, and the trade itself is unique and could allow me to fly in the civvy world during any free time!

However I have one last question. Through the grapevine I've heard that one is eligible to bypass PFT with a commercial pilot license. Is this true?


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## peak_to_prairie (3 Nov 2012)

Myself and 2 others from our initial group of 7 passed ASC this last week. Two of us passed the AEC exam as well.

ASC was a fantastic experience, overall, even before I knew I'd passed. It's stressful and challenging, but you are exposed to some fantastic CF and civilian professionals, get to meet others with the same passion as you, and are exposed a little to the CF pilot experience. CAPSS is also really cool!

I don't have much insight, I left with pretty well the same understanding of CAPSS that I went in with. The parameters of the tests are not shared with the candidates either before or after. The staff are very tight lipped. This is probably to maintain the integrity of the test and introduce an additional element of stress to CAPSS. The simulators are quite modern and have a console on the inside very comparable to that of a Cessna 172 or any other light, single engine aircraft. They pitch, roll, and yaw, which is somewhat disconcerting on the inside when the sim quickly resets for the next maneuver. I think the most important thing to remember for your CAPSS sessions is to listen carefully to all instructions given by the machine and by the officer and follow them. Manage your stress and don't panic. CAPSS is very sensitive and a light touch is needed on both the yoke and rudders, but they'll remind you of this as you go. Cross-check! There are two flatscreen monitors in the front and left windows that display various readouts and instructions. Your performance will be graphically represented after each maneuver. Learn from your mistakes and work on them, but don't dwell. You've got to manage your stress. I chair-flew the last session (an outline is given in your study guide) the night before, just to straighten it out in my head. It was a big jump from the first 3 sessions to number 4. You are able to take breathers while in CAPSS. Use them to calm yourself and run through the instructions again.

Myself and one other had pilot licences already, but the third guy who passed didn't. There were a couple of benefits: a lighter touch, familiarity with instruments, but there were some detriments too: procedures in CAPSS are different than in a real plane, CAPSS is still more sensitive, overconfidence. You don't need experience to pass, they are clear about that. They fail pilots out regularly too, apparently.

You'll also be given a long test battery that lasts most of a morning. It is a bit grueling and includes tests for both PLT and AEC. Your outcome is used to rank you on the Merit List, but isn't the determining factor as to whether you pass ASC or not, that comes down to CAPSS. Review similar stuff to your CFAT, but expect more stress and tighter time. Most of the test isn't something you can study for directly.

They tell you whether you passed or failed right away, privately, and brief you on what to do next. For us who passed, we got to attend a presentation by the AEC's and do a tour of the IFR and VFR control tower/room. Then we were driven to a hotel in Toronto for our medicals.

The DRDC in Toronto is where the medicals are. There is less stress, because it's not longer up to your skill. The tests are all really neat! I've never seen my heart before, but I got to when they took the echo-cardiogram. All the medical staff are very professional and encouraging. We were told to treat the whole time like a job interview. They were quite clear that they could disqualify us for behavioral reasons as well as medical. While it's not official or overt, there is definitely a bit of psychological evaluation that goes on when you interact with the staff. Just be calm, honest, and let your enthusiasm show through (professionally). The doctor and med tech in charge briefed us at the end and told us whether we were likely to be awarded an Air Factor. While not official yet (a couple consults had to be made and a staff meeting is held to discuss any issues) they already have a good feel for your health. You know right away if you fit the types or not. All three of us passed and should receive our Air Factors soon.

That's all there is too it! Manage your stress, cross-check, be professional, and enjoy it!

Those were my impressions. Nothing new, I don't think, from past posts. Good luck all!


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## Sf2 (3 Nov 2012)

Granted that everyone has to start somewhere - but its interesting to see how much effort and forethought one puts into ASC - and its only a needle in the haystack of steps required to not only get those wings, but become an operational pilot in the RCAF.

My advice - quit over thinking - conserve your energy - you have a very, very long way to go.


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## crosswind (3 Nov 2012)

peak_to_prairie,

Congrats on passing ASC!  I passed a month ago, and agree it was very stressful.  We had 4/7 pass ASC and DRDC.  Being a CPL I found the sim to be difficult, but I think having my IFR rating helped greatly though with interpreting the instruments.  The computer based testing is tough to prepare for, there really is not any advice to give away other than just be focused.

We all had the same medical briefing as well - all likely to be given air factors, but I personally have not received mine yet.  I haven't talked to any of the others but they likely haven't either.  A couple of us were pretty close on fitting into the Grob but everyone made it through.


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## peak_to_prairie (4 Nov 2012)

crosswind said:
			
		

> peak_to_prairie,
> 
> Congrats on passing ASC!  I passed a month ago, and agree it was very stressful.  We had 4/7 pass ASC and DRDC.  Being a CPL I found the sim to be difficult, but I think having my IFR rating helped greatly though with interpreting the instruments.  The computer based testing is tough to prepare for, there really is not any advice to give away other than just be focused.
> 
> We all had the same medical briefing as well - all likely to be given air factors, but I personally have not received mine yet.  I haven't talked to any of the others but they likely haven't either.  A couple of us were pretty close on fitting into the Grob but everyone made it through.



Being a CPL will you be skipping Primary if you're selected? I read the procedures for doing that while in Toronto.

The doctor said things were moving well now on the processing side of the medical. Apparently over the summer people had holidays, conferences, meetings, and other delays. She said that was over now and I would might get it in time for the Nov. 15 selection and it would be mostly up to the mail delivery. If it doesn't work out, I'll wait for April patiently (or the next selection).

I read in October that people were getting "conditional" offers before their Air Factor was assigned. Are they still doing that?


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## crosswind (4 Nov 2012)

peak_to_prairie said:
			
		

> Being a CPL will you be skipping Primary if you're selected? I read the procedures for doing that while in Toronto.
> 
> The doctor said things were moving well now on the processing side of the medical. Apparently over the summer people had holidays, conferences, meetings, and other delays. She said that was over now and I would might get it in time for the Nov. 15 selection and it would be mostly up to the mail delivery. If it doesn't work out, I'll wait for April patiently (or the next selection).
> 
> I read in October that people were getting "conditional" offers before their Air Factor was assigned. Are they still doing that?



From what I've been told I would get the PFT bypass, but nothing is confirmed 100%.  At this point I'm only concerned about making it in.  Hopefully I will hear some good news about the medical soon.  I haven't heard anything about conditional offers recently.  They may have only been doing that when they needed to fill BMOQ courses (it seems alot of offers were going out in october before the BMOQ at the end of october).


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## peak_to_prairie (13 Nov 2012)

Was told today I recieved my Air Factor and was Merit Listed on Friday. It's finger crossing time!


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## Gunshark (17 Jan 2013)

Hey guys. If someone here has gone through aircrew selection two times, could you please PM me? I'd like to ask some questions regarding the (re)application process. Thank you very much.


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## Noctis (28 Jan 2013)

Going to ASC next week... So anxious!!


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## Mikmaq (28 Jan 2013)

Noctis said:
			
		

> Going to ASC next week... So anxious!!



Good luck Noctis! Keep us updated on your progress!


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## Noctis (31 Jan 2013)

I'm just about to piss myself with anxiety over next weeks ASC. I mean, it's only the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING I will ever have done in my life.  Does anyone have good tips to help aleviate the stress?
All input is much appreciated.


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## eggert (31 Jan 2013)

going to ASC next week as well for pilot and AEC...so nervous i really wanna pass and dont no what to expect


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## eggert (31 Jan 2013)

whats easier, the AEC test or the pilot tests?


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## OYR_Pilot (31 Jan 2013)

eggert said:
			
		

> going to ASC next week as well for pilot and AEC...so nervous i really wanna pass and dont no what to expect



Read this thread, read your blue booklet, practice your crosscheck and enjoy the experience in Trenton!

If you are also going to ASC for AEC, you can study for the exam you will have on Monday morning: Grade 10 algebra, solve quick mental equations, maths logic problems, etc. And most of all, have a good rest the night before because the test takes about 4 hours and you will have your first session in the CAPSS right after lunch.



			
				eggert said:
			
		

> whats easier, the AEC test or the pilot tests?



It depends of your skills. I found the AEC test easier because I am very good in math and solving logical problems, but when I was there, I think that 3 out of 14 passed the AEC exam and 4 out of 14 passed the CAPSS. My advice: Do your best in both!

Good luck!


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## OYR_Pilot (31 Jan 2013)

Noctis said:
			
		

> Does anyone have good tips to help aleviate the stress?



Stress will be your worst enemy during the week, so try to relax before and during your sessions. It is very quiet in the CAPSS so take your time and take a big breath between each exercises, listen carefully to each instruction and before pushing the green button to start your flight, visualize the maneuvers you will have to do during the fallowing minutes!


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## Noctis (31 Jan 2013)

Thank you Hannibal, I can't allow myself to lose my focus because of stress. I'll check out some yoga too


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## Gunshark (31 Jan 2013)

Noctis, seriously, relax dude. You have a lot of info that I've provided. Go over it. Take this time now to prepare instead of stressing. If you get through, I'm sure there will be plenty more stressful things to come in later training, with plenty of opportunities to fail out of basic, phase I, phase II, and even phase III. From talking to pilots, many that get in fail later. I don't mean this to be a discouraging message, you know I've given you a lot of stuff to inform you and encourage you to succeed. The point I am making is that we can't allow ourselves to freak out about every single test. There's something to be said about the skill of keeping your cool. It will definitely come in handy during your aircrew selection and I'm sure during your future training, not to mention the service. And remember, the worst case if you don't pass CAPSS is that you can come back to redo it with a lot of new knowledge about CAPSS and about flying, with a much better chance of success. It may help you relax if you keep this in mind.

It's important to manage your expectations too. I went in confident and optimistic, fully expecting to pass. In retrospect, this was not entirely the right attitude to have. Because once you step foot in CAPSS, you get a reality check. The machine challenges you, and your positive expectations get broken, which lets you down and may affect your performance. In my opinion, it is better to go in with the attitude of expecting the test to challenge you, even if you've never failed a thing in your life. This way, you'll be more in line with reality, and be able to focus better and just work hard, instead of letting failed expectations get to you. I hope this makes sense. Instead of just trying to get you pumped, I am trying to give you more reastic advice which hopefully has a better chance to help you succeed.

You will figure out what works for you personally when you go through the tests. Much of advice you get here will probably go out the window and you will do things the way you feel is right. Just remember to review your sessions after, chair-fly your traffic patterns, things like that. Memorize all routines so that you don't have to think on the fly.


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## Noctis (31 Jan 2013)

Thanks Gunshark, your words bear more weight to me than anyone else here on the forum, as I know of your first-hand experience. I'll keep your words in mind when I leave on Sunday. Failing wouldn't be the end of the world too, heck I guess if I fail it's probably for the best.
Not that I intend to, though  
I'll just give it my best, or die trying  :threat:


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## Gunshark (31 Jan 2013)

Last piece of advice: Don't let anything get you down. If you screw up one thing, learn from it, and improve right away, don't start thinking "oh no, that's it, I'm screwed". If you crash, just do the routine better next time. People crash and still succeed. Remove all emotion, seriously.

Maybe what will help you calm down is that many, MANY, before you have not gone through, while you are still fortunate to have this opportunity to have a first go at it. The flip side of the coin is that if you don't succeed, you will by far not be alone. After my failure in Trenton, I gained great appreciation for guys who have returned to try again. It speaks volumes about dedication, and it's inspirational. My personal road towards PPL starts next week.

Oh and I forgot to say - Best of luck! ;D It will be one of the coolest weeks of your life, guaranteed, regardless of the outcome. Have a blast!


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## Noctis (31 Jan 2013)

Thanks again Gunshark, I'll do the absolute best I can to focus on the task at hand, emotionless. Solid advice right there. Got to keep my focus and stay cool!


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## skyhigh10 (2 Feb 2013)

Gunsharks advice was spot on. 

Few points:  Your time will be spent with others attending the selection. You will hear lots of discussion both positive and negative. Filter out the negative and focus on the positive. You have the power to succeed. Keep your ears open as there may be a pointer which can help you....or screw you. You will hear many different discussions aimed at trying to figure out how the CAPSS chooses successful candidates. I was told to ignore it. Fluently understand that it comes down to you and the testing device. Strive to *FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS* as closely as possible. If you think you know a better way, they suggest you don't do it. The instructions almost seem common sense based. Go through it in your head in full before pressing the green button as stated by other users. Strive to do what is asked of you. The staff are phenomenal. They give pointers and go above and beyond as far as i'm concerned. As they state on day one "do NOT allow one bad maneuver or session affect your next session or performance" . Keep in mind they will not divulge how the system measures your performance so there is no point in asking. When the session is done; reflect, eat, and have some fun and prepare for your next session.   

Keep in mind  some with a Commercial Pilots License are unsuccessful.  Being in a mental state of calmness alongside following instructions can ensure success. I use to be very uptight when it came to my chosen career endeavor. Every major recruiting hurtle made one feel super ill, the be all to end all! Learning to restrain the emotion and perform knowing deep down that you've done your best is something that will make the process a whole lot easier. You will be stressed, so do your best. 

I knew deep down I did my absolute best and had prepared for years to be given this opportunity.  I succeeded.


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## Sf2 (4 Feb 2013)

Herein lies a problem with the age of information we now live in.  When I went to ACS in 1994, there was no such thing as internet and online forums.  I had no access to anecdotal info or study guides.  I had no idea what I was getting into when I went for selection.   

Some people on here want so much information they get to the point of diminishing returns - they psych themselves out before they even set foot on the bus.

You don't need to know everything to pass selection.  You don't need to know ANYTHING to pass selection.  You need to go with an open mind and an ear for attention to detail.   That's it!! (and a bit of luck).


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## Noctis (6 Feb 2013)

Just got back from ASC (Feb 4-8), and I have to agree with SF2, don't worry too much about it; just go and do exactly as the machine (CAPSS) tells you and try not to think too much. The stress is the only thing you need to deal with really.

My experience didn't go so well. 4/13 passed. I failed. Oh well. CAPSS is tough up until session 4.  Session 4 is just insane.
On a positive note, I freaked out the selections officer with my AEC score (supposedly the best score ever! ). AEC is actually an interesting career to consider. Lots of different posting options, and lots of different fields of specialization.


For you guys coming back home and checking the forum, this is Kev, shoot me a PM if you want to chat.


For those of you heading off to Trenton, you'll really enjoy your experience (asides from the stress). The accommodations are great, everyone is friendly, it's awesome! Totally made me know I really want to be in the Forces, I loved the base. Oh, make sure you bring some form of entertainment too. Lots of downtime.


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## Skydiv3r (7 Feb 2013)

There's a test for AEC? When I did ASC in 2009, the only two tests were for Pilot and ACSO.


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## Loachman (7 Feb 2013)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Herein lies a problem with the age of information we now live in.  When I went to ACS in 1994, there was no such thing as internet and online forums.  I had no access to anecdotal info or study guides.  I had no idea what I was getting into when I went for selection.
> 
> Some people on here want so much information they get to the point of diminishing returns - they psych themselves out before they even set foot on the bus.
> 
> You don't need to know everything to pass selection.  You don't need to know ANYTHING to pass selection.  You need to go with an open mind and an ear for attention to detail.   That's it!! (and a bit of luck).



This is true.

Enjoying it helps a bunch as well.


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## skyhigh10 (7 Feb 2013)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Herein lies a problem with the age of information we now live in.  When I went to ACS in 1994, there was no such thing as internet and online forums.  I had no access to anecdotal info or study guides.  I had no idea what I was getting into when I went for selection.
> 
> Some people on here want so much information they get to the point of diminishing returns - they psych themselves out before they even set foot on the bus.
> 
> You don't need to know everything to pass selection.  You don't need to know ANYTHING to pass selection.  You need to go with an open mind and an ear for attention to detail.   That's it!! (and a bit of luck).



As much as I agree with you, additional information can be used to ones advantage. Though I do agree that there needs to be a bit of a filter and open mind as indicated by you and countless others.


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## Noctis (7 Feb 2013)

Skydiv3r said:
			
		

> There's a test for AEC? When I did ASC in 2009, the only two tests were for Pilot and ACSO.



We started off Monday with AEC testing.  We did not do any ACSO tests.  I've since changed my trade choices and will have to get the ACSO test done soon at my local CFRC.


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## Gunshark (7 Feb 2013)

skyhigh10 said:
			
		

> As much as I agree with you, additional information can be used to ones advantage. Though I do agree that there needs to be a bit of a filter and open mind as indicated by you and countless others.



I'll second this. It's important to not overthink it and just do your best, relying on your own ability, understanding, focus, coordination, etc. This is the most important thing. However, with the wealth of good information (not all of it) available to us in this day and age, there is no good reason not to try to benefit from it. Doing your research is part of the "giving it your best shot" process. Also, I have a small feeling that for guys who have gone through this selection with no info available at the time and that happened to do very well, it is probably a little easier to say "you don't need to know anything". But the reality is that odds of passing are not very good, for anyone. These days passing rates are as low as 30%. Judging from my personal experience, having failed CAPSS, I can say that I came back from it wishing I had actually flown planes and simulators for many hours prior to the test. It may not have given me the direct skill of controlling the sensitive CAPSS, but it would probably have given me the skill of being more comfortable/familiar with the cross-check and the controls, so that I could focus more of my attention to the unique challenges of CAPSS that you don't find in a Cessna. If nothing else, extra flight hours under my belt would have probably been a positive fun experience. In other words, I should have probably spent more hours on what was advised on this forum, to give myself a better chance. So, if you're able to approach your research reasonably and not stress yourself out to the point of losing your hair, why not take advantage of the info that folks here so generously share? :2c:


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## hopingfordeo (7 Feb 2013)

Noctis said:
			
		

> We started off Monday with AEC testing.  We did not do any ACSO tests.  I've since changed my trade choices and will have to get the ACSO test done soon at my local CFRC.



Any info you can share about the AEC testing?


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## Noctis (7 Feb 2013)

Not much you can prepare for except maybe reviewing high school arithmetics.  It's multi-tasking and stuff. 3 hours of computer tests that test various innate skills.


----------



## lstpierre (7 Feb 2013)

Gunshark said:
			
		

> I'll second this. It's important to not overthink it and just do your best, relying on your own ability, understanding, focus, coordination, etc. This is the most important thing. However, with the wealth of good information (not all of it) available to us in this day and age, there is no good reason not to try to benefit from it. Doing your research is part of the "giving it your best shot" process. Also, I have a small feeling that for guys who have gone through this selection with no info available at the time and that happened to do very well, it is probably a little easier to say "you don't need to know anything". But the reality is that odds of passing are not very good, for anyone. These days passing rates are as low as 30%. Judging from my personal experience, having failed CAPSS, I can say that I came back from it wishing I had actually flown planes and simulators for many hours prior to the test. It may not have given me the direct skill of controlling the sensitive CAPSS, but it would probably have given me the skill of being more comfortable/familiar with the cross-check and the controls, so that I could focus more of my attention to the unique challenges of CAPSS that you don't find in a Cessna. If nothing else, extra flight hours under my belt would have probably been a positive fun experience. In other words, I should have probably spent more hours on what was advised on this forum, to give myself a better chance. So, if you're able to approach your research reasonably and not stress yourself out to the point of losing your hair, why not take advantage of the info that folks here so generously share? :2c:



This kind of mindset is what I have witnessed with countless pilot trainee struggles in my training so far (myself included). I am about 4 months away from wings and if there is one thing I've learned about succeeding in the military environment, it's just learn what you are told to learn, when you are told to learn it. Nothing more. The training I have received has been extremely intense, but also extremely refined. It was built that way. There are no secret little tricks, and for the most part any extracurriculars you use will ultimately end up saturating your already full brain and cannibalizing the tried, tested, and true teaching/learning techniques the military uses. You can sit in a sim before CAPPS if it makes you feel better, but it won't do much more than that. I came from a civi background before this, and the things the military looks for are completely different from anything the guy at your local flight school will be able to teach you in a couple of sim sessions. You will develop a half-baked IFR scan that will make you miss things that you otherwise would have caught by just scanning the CAPPS instruments in a way that is natural to you. Trust me, the system works.


----------



## Gunshark (7 Feb 2013)

Point taken. Thank you for that different perspective. Definitely will think about that.


----------



## eggert (8 Feb 2013)

going to ASC on 25 Feb. first choice is AEC, second choice pilot, my pilot testing is on monday-wed and AEC testing is thursday morning. Since i am going up for both, if i do the pilot session on monday-wednesday and fail the AEC portion that they give you for PILOT does that mean i will not be able to do the actual AEC testing on thursday?

any tips would be awesome!


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## Gunshark (8 Feb 2013)

I was under the impression that the computer test that pilot candidates do on Mondayfully covers the AEC component. Because at the end of aircrew selection, some pilot candidates are told they meet the standard for AEC, even if it wasn't one of their trade choices. I was one of those guys, AEC not listed as one of my trades. So if I've already met the AEC standard, it doesn't make sense to me that they'd put me through another test on Thursday. Anyway, just brainstorming here, don't rely on this. Someone who had both Pilot and AEC as their trade choices should be able to answer this question better.


----------



## OYR_Pilot (8 Feb 2013)

Pilots and AEC candidates do the AEC test together at the same time, and I don't think it is possible that the AEC test will be on Thursday since the pilots who passed the CAPSS will be in Downsview for their Air Factor.

The AEC test is on Monday morning and they will give you your result on Wednesday right after you finish the pilot's last test.


----------



## skyhigh10 (8 Feb 2013)

lstpierre said:
			
		

> This kind of mindset is what I have witnessed with countless pilot trainee struggles in my training so far (myself included). I am about 4 months away from wings and if there is one thing I've learned about succeeding in the military environment, it's just learn what you are told to learn, when you are told to learn it. Nothing more. The training I have received has been extremely intense, but also extremely refined. It was built that way. There are no secret little tricks, and for the most part any extracurriculars you use will ultimately end up saturating your already full brain and cannibalizing the tried, tested, and true teaching/learning techniques the military uses. You can sit in a sim before CAPPS if it makes you feel better, but it won't do much more than that. I came from a civi background before this, and the things the military looks for are completely different from anything the guy at your local flight school will be able to teach you in a couple of sim sessions. You will develop a half-baked IFR scan that will make you miss things that you otherwise would have caught by just scanning the CAPPS instruments in a way that is natural to you. Trust me, the system works.



Hey Lstpierre, 

Forgive me for my questions if they come off as naive. 

Most of us have no doubt that the system works. The topic raised above had to do with investigating (or not investigating?)  further into a given topic for the potential benefit of a candidate. I agree that it may in fact be unwise to read memoirs of every single WWI and II flying ace while trying to succeed in BFT. Reading these forums for some time, I cannot recall how many times I've read  "you're expect to know...."  So , how do you personally flick the switch on and off? If I stated to a superior or instructor that I didn't know something because I "wasn't specifically told to learn that" , would I not get chewed out? (assuming it was common sense based and not a specific learning objective). Don't you naturally just ask questions and try to learn via the syllabus and compare your performance with the standards and so on? Do you ask questions where the answer could very well impact you and your career? 



			
				Gunshark said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that the computer test that pilot candidates do on Mondayfully covers the AEC component. Because at the end of aircrew selection, some pilot candidates are told they meet the standard for AEC, even if it wasn't one of their trade choices. I was one of those guys, AEC not listed as one of my trades. So if I've already met the AEC standard, it doesn't make sense to me that they'd put me through another test on Thursday. Anyway, just brainstorming here, don't rely on this. Someone who had both Pilot and AEC as their trade choices should be able to answer this question better.



I was under the same impression.


----------



## Sf2 (9 Feb 2013)

^^^ that was a pretty convoluted question, but.....

If you pass ASC and end up in Portage and/or Moose Jaw, its not common sense learning.  It is very directed learning i.e - For ALP 1, you must know the following things and be able to complete the following objectives to certain performance level.  It is very specific.

Its not "You will learn how to fly a loop".  It is "you will learn to achieve XXX knots at a minimum altitude of XXX and commence a XXX G pull up to XXX degrees nose up at which point you relax G to XXX and so on....."

There is never a doubt what you must know.  Every parameter is published, and you are expected to know all the parameters.


----------



## skyhigh10 (9 Feb 2013)

Thanks for the response. 

Read the post I quoted. A case was made against people seeking more information than what's provided. Some disagree for various reasons.  I cannot speak from a training perspective; only a recruiting/applicant one.  Had I taken the first word provided to me years ago I would not be as fortunate as I am today.


----------



## Sf2 (9 Feb 2013)

Now I'm really confused.  Too much wine last night I guess.....


----------



## skyhigh10 (9 Feb 2013)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Now I'm really confused.  Too much wine last night I guess.....



No problem. When you unwind, read the post I quoted and the responses that followed. 

Have a great weekend


----------



## lstpierre (9 Feb 2013)

skyhigh10 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the response.
> 
> Read the post I quoted. A case was made against people seeking more information than what's provided. Some disagree for various reasons.  I cannot speak from a training perspective; only a recruiting/applicant one.  Had I taken the first word provided to me years ago I would not be as fortunate as I am today.



Sure, in many situations it's obviously a good idea to get as much information as possible about a given subject. What good officer wouldn't do that? My point was for things like aircrew selection and the rest of your training up until wings, there is truly no point in doing that. Like SF2 said, everything in the training/testing environment is extremely directive. You are shown exactly how to do things (often very complicated things, mind you) and it is very, very clear what you need to know and where you can find that information. And the instructors are EXTREMELY good at tailoring their teaching style to the learning style of the individual. Anything else you try and cram into your skull is a bonus, I guess, but if you're anything like me that extra info will end up diluting the things you're actually expected to know. 

Anyway, my main point was that you won't find any super secret pro-tips from anyone on an online forum for aircrew selection success. Only extra stuff to think about and do that will take your attention away from zoning in on what you're actually supposed to be doing. Work smart, not hard.


----------



## Sf2 (9 Feb 2013)

skyhigh10 said:
			
		

> No problem. When you unwind, read the post I quoted and the responses that followed.
> 
> Have a great weekend



will do


----------



## skyhigh10 (9 Feb 2013)

lstpierre said:
			
		

> Sure, in many situations it's obviously a good idea to get as much information as possible about a given subject. What good officer wouldn't do that? My point was for things like aircrew selection and the rest of your training up until wings, there is truly no point in doing that. Like SF2 said, everything in the training/testing environment is extremely directive. You are shown exactly how to do things (often very complicated things, mind you) and it is very, very clear what you need to know and where you can find that information. And the instructors are EXTREMELY good at tailoring their teaching style to the learning style of the individual. Anything else you try and cram into your skull is a bonus, I guess, but if you're anything like me that extra info will end up diluting the things you're actually expected to know.
> 
> Anyway, my main point was that you won't find any super secret pro-tips from anyone on an online forum for aircrew selection success. Only extra stuff to think about and do that will take your attention away from zoning in on what you're actually supposed to be doing. Work smart, not hard.



Thank you for clarifying.  I understand what you're saying and I will most definitely keep it in mind !


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## eggert (9 Feb 2013)

no, i am 100% sure that the pilot testing is on monday-wednesday, and the AEC testing is on thursday. will i have an advantage if i go for the pilot testing, then get to write the AEC test on thursday 

also, is the AEC testing hard


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## skyhigh10 (9 Feb 2013)

Well, I don't know where you're getting your information. But the 4 hours of AEC testing I did on the Monday first thing in the morning was for ... AEC. You get your results on the Wednesday.


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## eggert (9 Feb 2013)

Ok i have my joining instructions/schedule right in front of me 

Monday Feb  25 2013 - Wednesday Feb 27 2013 Pilot testing

Thursday Feb 28 2013 AEC
All candidates for AEC testing will report at 0740 on Thursday morning, the tests for AEC will finish by 1200.


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## nic32 (9 Feb 2013)

Guys,

The monday morning test is for both AEC and Pilot. You had a part in it that test you for you skills for Pilot and another one for AEC. They dont told you in which part you are, if I remember correctly they mix the test but you will know when you do something that is more concentrated for AEC trade.


----------



## skyhigh10 (9 Feb 2013)

eggert said:
			
		

> Ok i have my joining instructions/schedule right in front of me
> 
> Monday Feb  25 2013 - Wednesday Feb 27 2013 Pilot testing
> 
> ...



Then follow those instructions! I was obviously misinformed or I personally did not understand my week.


----------



## Gunshark (11 Feb 2013)

Here's what I THINK MIGHT be happening here. Please don't quote me on this, and *stick to your provided instructions*!

All pilots get tested for AEC on Mon morning, regardless if AEC was one of their choices or not. Then pilots proceed to get tested for Pilot on Mon-Wed. But if you are an AEC only, my understanding is that you arrive later in the week and get tested separately on Thursday. Because you've listed both trades, maybe you're in some kind of a combined schedule now. Perhaps you won't get tested for AEC on Monday, like all other Pilot candidates will. Or perhaps you will, and they will let you go on Thursday. 

If I had to guess, it would be logical to test you for AEC on Monday along with everyone else. In that case, if you don't go through for AEC, you have a chance to get Pilot in the next couple of days and be sent to Toronto in time for your Thu-Fri medical. But if you pass Pilot on Mon-Wed and then fail your first choice (AEC) on Thu, you will miss that Pilot medical because of unfortunate scheduling. I'm putting my money on the scenario that you will get tested for AEC and Pilot following the exact same schedule as pilot candidates.

Again, I'm just thinking out loud here. Your best bet is to schedule your whole week off, arrive to Trenton on Sunday night, and follow all instructions, starting from your Welcome package and then from your instructors. If your instructors tell you to do the AEC test on Thu, I would tell them: "If I pass for Pilot on Mon-Wed but fail for AEC on Thu, I will have missed my chance to do the Pilot medical on Thu-Fri in Toronto. Please advise."

Good luck.


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## eggert (12 Feb 2013)

can anyone give me an example of what to wear the first 3 days of Aircrew selection centre?

Shirt and tie? dress shoes?

I dont understand the joining instructioins!


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## PMedMoe (12 Feb 2013)

From here: http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/vital/8w-8e/cfasc-cspnfc/docs/web2011-bp982d-01.doc (If this is still current)



> All candidates, regardless of entry plan, will wear casual, civilian dress.  No denim jeans,T-shirts, shorts, running shoes or sandals are permitted during working hours.  Flat soled shoes are recommended for the CAPSS sessions.



Doesn't sound like a tie is required...   :dunno:


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## Gunshark (12 Feb 2013)

eggert said:
			
		

> can anyone give me an example of what to wear the first 3 days of Aircrew selection centre?
> 
> Shirt and tie? dress shoes?
> 
> I dont understand the joining instructioins!



Dress like you would to an office - business casual. No tie or super dressy clothes required. But maybe black/brown shoes, dress pants or maybe even chinos, and a buttoned shirt or a polo shirt. That was the average look of candidates when I was there. I believe anything can be worn after 5 pm.


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## eggert (12 Feb 2013)

what is casual clothing? dress clothes?) nice t shirt ?


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## Journeyman (12 Feb 2013)

eggert said:
			
		

> can anyone give me an example of what to wear the first 3 days of Aircrew selection centre?
> 
> Shirt and tie? dress shoes?
> 
> I dont understand the joining instructioins!





> All candidates, regardless of entry plan, will wear casual, civilian dress.  No denim jeans,T-shirts, shorts, running shoes or sandals





> Doesn't sound like a tie is required...





> No tie or super dressy clothes required. But maybe black/brown shoes, dress pants or maybe even chinos, and a buttoned shirt or a polo shirt.





			
				eggert said:
			
		

> what is casual clothing? dress clothes?) nice t shirt ?




I think the fashion requirements will be the_ least _of your troubles.    :facepalm:


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## Noctis (12 Feb 2013)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I think the fashion requirements will be the_ least _of your troubles.    :facepalm:



Quoted for truth. Wear a buttonned shirt and you'll forget you even have it on. Make sure you have good body deodorant too; you'll sweat in CAPSS because of the stress.
Good luck.


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## eggert (12 Feb 2013)

does each province have a number of ROTP applications they are giving offers to or is there just one big number canada-wide? for instance, FOR AEC would they have one number of how many people they are going to give ROTP offers to, or would each province have there own number of AEC applicatnts they are giving ROTP offers too?


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## dapaterson (12 Feb 2013)

From what I've heard, they use your standard of dress to determine what airframe you get assigned.

CF-18 Pilot:








CH-146 Pilot:







Aurora Pilot:


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## Gunshark (12 Feb 2013)

Apparently I walked out of CFASC looking like a CF-18 pilot...


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## Noctis (12 Feb 2013)

What about guys flying the control tower?


----------



## dapaterson (13 Feb 2013)

Noctis said:
			
		

> What about guys flying the control tower?



Something like this:


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## eggert (15 Feb 2013)

if you already have your interview,medical done and go to ASC and fail for pilot, then switch your trade choice from pilot to LOG officer , do you have to do another interview for LOG O since it wasnt one of your trade choices during your original interview?


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## Noctis (15 Feb 2013)

eggert said:
			
		

> if you already have your interview,medical done and go to ASC and fail for pilot, then switch your trade choice from pilot to LOG officer , do you have to do another interview for LOG O since it wasnt one of your trade choices during your original interview?



Yes.  They will usually just do it over the phone.

Edit: Source: Personal experience.


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## Gunshark (15 Feb 2013)

I do not know for sure, but I'd say there is no guarantee that the update interview will be over the phone like it was for Noctis. There is probably a good chance you will have to come in. And yes, you will have to do an update interview. You will also have to do the newly implemented personality questionnaire, if you haven't done it previously. I was also told at the CFRC recently that the interview format has changed. Your best bet, as always, is to contact your CFRC.


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## Melbatoast (15 Feb 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Something like this:



That's pretty obviously a navigator ("ACSO" for the new guys). 

ATCs are more like a disembodied voice, which I think is in principle hard to represent via picture...


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## Noctis (18 Feb 2013)

Fair enough. Here's the new AEC look:


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## FL360 (24 Feb 2013)

anyone know when the next ACS is?


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## hopingfordeo (24 Feb 2013)

There is one starting every Monday for the next 5 weeks at least.


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## skyhigh10 (24 Feb 2013)

To those who have been around for the past 10 years,  

When did the CF last hire this many pilots?


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## eggert (24 Feb 2013)

there is a asc this week im on it!


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## Griffon (24 Feb 2013)

skyhigh10 said:
			
		

> To those who have been around for the past 10 years,
> 
> When did the CF last hire this many pilots?



What leads you to believe that they are hiring more pilots this year than in the past?

It is not unusual at all for the CFASC to be running selection serials nearly every week of the year.  In fact, it is normal for them to be running selections for ~40 weeks out of the year.  Assuming that the average cohort is around 6 pers per week, and about 50% of those that attend pass (.7 is a pass score, mean score of .527 with a standard deviation of .308 for the last unclassified source I read, but with a limited sample), that means that about 120 people will pass Aircrew Selection each year... and they aren't all given offers.  Also, that 120 is divided between internal selection, ROTP, DEO, and CEOTP.

So how many pilots do you think they're hiring this year?  Doesn't sound like any more than normal to me...


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## Sf2 (24 Feb 2013)

and hired doesn't mean employable.....


----------



## skyhigh10 (24 Feb 2013)

Griffon said:
			
		

> What leads you to believe that they are hiring more pilots this year than in the past?
> 
> It is not unusual at all for the CFASC to be running selection serials nearly every week of the year.  In fact, it is normal for them to be running selections for ~40 weeks out of the year.  Assuming that the average cohort is around 6 pers per week, and about 50% of those that attend pass (.7 is a pass score, mean score of .527 with a standard deviation of .308 for the last unclassified source I read, but with a limited sample), that means that about 120 people will pass Aircrew Selection each year... and they aren't all given offers.  Also, that 120 is divided between internal selection, ROTP, DEO, and CEOTP.
> 
> So how many pilots do you think they're hiring this year?  Doesn't sound like any more than normal to me...



Would you by any chance have 2009 or 2010 #s on hand?  

I understand what you wrote and it makes perfect sense. But in past years, weren't there times when very few if any pilots were hired?   If there are no jobs for pilots why would they run ACS courses and hire people? 

Those in recruiting seem to also have changed their tone a bit!


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## Griffon (24 Feb 2013)

Sorry, but I currently don't have access to the actual numbers, but IIRC they were about 120-130 per year across all intake plans. I can tell you that the pilot occupation has been short for quite a few years, but they aren't increasing recruiting substantially because the training pipeline can't handle much more. 

Hope that helps.


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## skyhigh10 (25 Feb 2013)

Griffon said:
			
		

> Sorry, but I currently don't have access to the actual numbers, but IIRC they were about 120-130 per year across all intake plans. I can tell you that the pilot occupation has been short for quite a few years, but they aren't increasing recruiting substantially because the training pipeline can't handle much more.
> 
> Hope that helps.



100%  

Thanks!


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## shogun506 (6 Mar 2013)

Griffon said:
			
		

> What leads you to believe that they are hiring more pilots this year than in the past?
> 
> It is not unusual at all for the CFASC to be running selection serials nearly every week of the year.  In fact, it is normal for them to be running selections for ~40 weeks out of the year.  Assuming that the average cohort is around 6 pers per week, and about 50% of those that attend pass (.7 is a pass score, mean score of .527 with a standard deviation of .308 for the last unclassified source I read, but with a limited sample), that means that about 120 people will pass Aircrew Selection each year... and they aren't all given offers.  Also, that 120 is divided between internal selection, ROTP, DEO, and CEOTP.
> 
> So how many pilots do you think they're hiring this year?  Doesn't sound like any more than normal to me...



I was under the impression pilot was closed to DEO applicants the past few years. I asked about it at the recruiting centre in 2010 and 2011 and was told it was closed to anyone that didn't have flying experience. I got the impression that recruiter was BSing me though. Anyway, when I started my application in March 2012 the recruiters told me my chances were good because they were hiring more pilots than any other year before, 80 DEO was the number they gave.


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## jmkh81 (1 Apr 2013)

I have recently been selected for the ASC in Trenton for pilot for the 2013 UTP program. Its  been relatively a short, but very much welcomed notice and I have managed to acquire the blue study guide which seems straight forward.  With that being said , my quick two week notice(crse starts for me in a few days) leaves me without any insight or clarity on the aptitude/computer based testing portion at the ASC. Any takers on the whole process/testing? Cheers!


----------



## skyhigh10 (2 Apr 2013)

jmkh81 said:
			
		

> I have recently been selected for the ASC in Trenton for pilot for the 2013 UTP program. Its  been relatively a short, but very much welcomed notice and I have managed to acquire the blue study guide which seems straight forward.  With that being said , my quick two week notice(crse starts for me in a few days) leaves me without any insight or clarity on the aptitude/computer based testing portion at the ASC. Any takers on the whole process/testing? Cheers!



Brush up on your hand written math skills . Be at your best.  If this means leaving redbull out for one morning , do it.


----------



## Duckman54 (2 Apr 2013)

I've been given the green-light to head to CFASC... told it's in Trenton's hands now for scheduling. No idea how much notice I'll get.

'G.


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## shogun506 (2 Apr 2013)

Duckman54 said:
			
		

> I've been given the green-light to head to CFASC... told it's in Trenton's hands now for scheduling. No idea how much notice I'll get.
> 
> 'G.



So it sounds like they've said you've checked out with your medical/interview and such and are just waiting to get a date for you. Don't sweat it, CFASC runs around the year so I'm sure you'll get proper notice.


----------



## Duckman54 (27 Apr 2013)

Got that phone-call!  Anyone else heading out there May 6-10?

'G.


----------



## 26point2 (27 Apr 2013)

Duckman54 said:
			
		

> Got that phone-call!  Anyone else heading out there May 6-10?
> 
> 'G.



Nice!  Good luck!


----------



## hopingfordeo (27 Apr 2013)

Anyone else heading up tomorrow?


----------



## rtennessee (13 Jun 2013)

Just waiting on the phone call to attend ASC.  For those who got in, can you tell me if they gave you the option to choose what week you went?  Also, is there a study guide they give you before attending ASC in Trenton??


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## 26point2 (13 Jun 2013)

In my case, they asked for three possible weeks that I could be available.  My understanding is they are going to pick one of those weeks.  Yes, there is a guide.


----------



## Cbbmtt (29 Jul 2013)

Was told today that before my interview that I had to fly to Trenton out of Vancouver for Aesop/Aircrew flight testing. All I got from the recruiter was that it lasts about three days.

Can someone give me some insight as to what tests they will be performing? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## DAA (29 Jul 2013)

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> Was told today that before my interview that I had to fly to Trenton out of Vancouver for Aesop/Aircrew flight testing. All I got from the recruiter was that it lasts about three days.
> 
> Can someone give me some insight as to what tests they will be performing?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



They are suppose to give you a "study package".  If you arrive in Trenton without it, you will be sent right back home.  At least this is my understanding as it pertains to Pilot, ACSO and AEC applicants.  Not entirely certain what the requirements are for AES Ops.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (8 Aug 2013)

AES Ops don't do ACS.  I'd say the CFRC staff in question will realize this when they try to send potential AES Ops on it.   ;D


----------



## Cbbmtt (9 Aug 2013)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> AES Ops don't do ACS.  I'd say the CFRC staff in question will realize this when they try to send potential AES Ops on it.   ;D



I just hope it won't delay anything on their end drawing out the application process. The Flight Crew medical was sent to Ottawa on the 12th of July, hopefully it doesn't take much more than 1-2 months.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (9 Aug 2013)

*hopefully*  8)


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## StudentPilot23 (24 Aug 2013)

Has anyone been through the new computerized testing at ACS yet? I'm kind of nervous because I feel like I'll probably do worse on a computer-based aptitude test than a simulator. Really disappointed they changed it.


----------



## 26point2 (24 Aug 2013)

StudentPilot23 said:
			
		

> Has anyone been through the new computerized testing at ACS yet? I'm kind of nervous because I feel like I'll probably do worse on a computer-based aptitude test than a simulator. Really disappointed they changed it.



I did it about six weeks ago.  It's not an aptitude test though, it's several tests -- hand-foot-eye coordination, hand-eye coordination, multi-tasking,, short term memory, mental arithmetic, reading comprehension, spatial ability, and much more.

The package is all you need, it suggests how you can prepare for certain tests, and other tests you can't prepare for at all.


----------



## StudentPilot23 (24 Aug 2013)

26point2 said:
			
		

> I did it about six weeks ago.  It's not an aptitude test though, it's several tests -- hand-foot-eye coordination, hand-eye coordination, multi-tasking,, short term memory, mental arithmetic, reading comprehension, spatial ability, and much more.
> 
> The package is all you need, it suggests how you can prepare for certain tests, and other tests you can't prepare for at all.



Do you know how many people in your group passed?


----------



## 26point2 (24 Aug 2013)

6 out of 8 in my group.

The previous week only 2 out of 7.


----------



## StudentPilot23 (12 Dec 2013)

Just got the email today that I've been loaded onto the Jan 13-15 course! Anyone else going at this time?


----------



## Wezoin (31 Jan 2014)

Just finished ACS, 4 out of 10 in my group passed.  Luckily I was one of them.

A lot of the information in this thread seems outdated and it may be worth unpinning and starting a new one.

Just as a few pointers: if you have a tablet/smartphone download a mental math practice app and run through it as much as you can (great to use on the train to Trenton as well.)  Another thing that would be helpful is work on your memory, not sure how you would do it but memory is important for this.  

Keep in mind there is no CAPPS anymore.  Other than that the only advice I can really give is to learn the tests from the candidate guide.  Their descriptions are kind of vague but I can't go into any more detail than they provide.


----------



## matthew1786 (31 Jan 2014)

Thanks for the info!


----------



## StudentPilot23 (31 Jan 2014)

Wezoin said:
			
		

> Just finished ACS, 4 out of 10 in my group passed.  Luckily I was one of them.
> 
> A lot of the information in this thread seems outdated and it may be worth unpinning and starting a new one.
> 
> ...



I did mine from the 13th - 15th of January. 5 out of 12 passed for pilot and one guy passed for just AEC. I completely agree with the mental math app, I had one on my phone and it helped a lot. Did you just get your results today?


----------



## Wezoin (1 Feb 2014)

Ours was Jan 27 - 29 (if you include the medical part)  
We got results for the testing around 11am on the second day.  

It was interesting to see that some of the people that passed weren't who you would expect.  A lot of the people with a bachelors degree did not pass, while there were some ROTP candidates who had either only finished high school or had a college diploma who did.  
I think part of the reason for this may be that it isn't testing the same abilities as normal academic work and a higher level of schooling does not automatically equate to success at this test.

Personally I hold a masters degree and found the entire experience much more challenging than I had expected.  To be honest it was the single most difficult thing I've ever done.  Part of that comes from not knowing how you are doing at any point until the end, the stress really gets to you.  I'm not saying this to try to show off or brag about my education, just as a warning to those who may feel 'I'm really educated this is going to be easy, if people who have just graduated high school can pass I'll have no trouble.'  The memory requirements, amount of information you need to store and rate at which calculations need to be done are not challenges you will be accustomed to in the academic world and preparation is key.


----------



## StudentPilot23 (1 Feb 2014)

Yeah I completely agree, the test measures cognitive abilities that are independant of your academic achievements. In my case I'm an ROTP applicant still in grade 12 and we had a guy with a master's fail. I guess you either have it or you don't. 

The testing was the hardest thing I've ever done as well. I went for a run the morning of the first day of testing and I found that it really helped control my nervous energy. 

Congratulations on passing and good luck in getting an offer!


----------



## matthew1786 (1 Feb 2014)

What are the apps that you guys used to practice? What is the level of mental math required on a scale from 1 to 10? (Let's say 1 being 1+1=2 and 10 being 3478100/345 * 0.15 = ...). Thanks!


----------



## Wezoin (2 Feb 2014)

All I'll really say on that one is the harder math you can do mentally and quickly the better.


----------



## redorange363 (15 Feb 2014)

I just finished the aircrew selection process in Trenton and medicals in Toronto - anyone have what is next and the time frame?


----------



## Green (19 Feb 2014)

I received a call today- they are planning to book me for Trenton early March, most probably March 3rd to 5th. I'm a bit nervous.


----------



## stcv3 (23 Feb 2014)

I got possible dates for Trenton for the period between March.05 and 12(3 days depending on which dates are available). I haven't received a call yet, but I'm a bit nervous.

Found the forum by google, which is a nice way to get more information. Don't know anyone in the AF, and never flew an airplane before. Barely used a simulator once! That's pretty sums up my experience.

Got a few questions for you. I read on this page someone mentioned there is no CAPPS anymore. What is CAPPS exactly? Is that good or bad?

Second thing I got interested in, is this mental math app. What is the exact one, because I found too many in the play store.

One last thing, Why is the whole stay in Trenton 3 days, when the email file says the aptitude test lasts for day only? I emailed the recruitment centre but they haven't replied to me yet.

Thanks and good luck to all!


----------



## jurskinator (24 Feb 2014)

stcv3 said:
			
		

> I got possible dates for Trenton for the period between March.05 and 12(3 days depending on which dates are available). I haven't received a call yet, but I'm a bit nervous.
> 
> Found the forum by google, which is a nice way to get more information. Don't know anyone in the AF, and never flew an airplane before. Barely used a simulator once! That's pretty sums up my experience.
> 
> ...



CAPPS was the old ACS system which was sort of like a modified version of a flight simulator. I've heard it's a good thing as the new testing system is better for selecting potential pilot candidates. 

Mental math app I used was called Math Workout, practice it until you get to hard for all the different exercises. I found it really helped me during Air Crew Selection testing.

Stay in Trenton is 3 days; first day to relax, second day is first half of testing and third day is the second half of testing.

By the way take some time to go through the threads on this forum, search is your friend. All the information I just provided for you and more is out there!
Good luck!


----------



## matthew1786 (25 Feb 2014)

EJAY said:
			
		

> CAPPS was the old ACS system which was sort of like a modified version of a flight simulator. I've heard it's a good thing as the new testing system is better for selecting potential pilot candidates.
> 
> Mental math app I used was called Math Workout, practice it until you get to hard for all the different exercises. I found it really helped me during Air Crew Selection testing.
> 
> ...



Do they tell you how you scored after the first day, and only those who pass continue to day 2 of testing? Or do you only receive feedback after both days?


----------



## jurskinator (25 Feb 2014)

matthew1786 said:
			
		

> Do they tell you how you scored after the first day, and only those who pass continue to day 2 of testing? Or do you only receive feedback after both days?



No feedback until after both days of testing is complete as you can make up points on day 2 if you did poorly on the first day.


----------



## stcv3 (25 Feb 2014)

EJAY said:
			
		

> CAPPS was the old ACS system which was sort of like a modified version of a flight simulator. I've heard it's a good thing as the new testing system is better for selecting potential pilot candidates.
> 
> Mental math app I used was called Math Workout, practice it until you get to hard for all the different exercises. I found it really helped me during Air Crew Selection testing.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply and the advice.

I'm doing my best to prepare and search for some tips. Getting more nervous though, which isn't so good.

Somehow I'm glad to hear about CAPPS. At one of the previous interviews they got me a little scared with  the simulator part. I'm using the same app for math. Seems good for training your brain and passing time faster. There are a few others that might be helpful. Unfortunately there seem to be too many tests for which you can't really prepare.

Any idea how early before the test they're actually supposed to get back to you? I sent them an email to confirm for the 10-12th, but they haven't called back. 

So lets say you pass. How long does it take before they call you for a second medical?


----------



## bradley247 (25 Feb 2014)

The aircrew medical is at DRDC in Toronto the next day for those who pass.



			
				stcv3 said:
			
		

> Getting more nervous though, which isn't so good.



It's good to be nervous, it means you give a sh*t. I was nervous before ACS, before basic, before phase I, phase II, PhIII, I was nervous showing up to my first day on Sqn. Being nervous is normal, but don't let it affect your performance. If you can't perform when you are nervous, under pressure, you won't pass pilot training.


----------



## stcv3 (26 Feb 2014)

bradley247 said:
			
		

> The aircrew medical is at DRDC in Toronto the next day for those who pass.



That would mean if I pass on my test on the 12th I have to go back to Toronto on the 13th for a medical? Good to prepared about such news in case it happens.

What is the next stage after the CFASC and the medical?


----------



## StudentPilot23 (27 Feb 2014)

They send you home after the medical.


----------



## bradley247 (2 Mar 2014)

stcv3 said:
			
		

> That would mean if I pass on my test on the 12th I have to go back to Toronto on the 13th for a medical? Good to prepared about such news in case it happens.
> 
> What is the next stage after the CFASC and the medical?



Yes, the aircrew medical is in Toronto the next day. Don't the joining instructions mention that? Should be a little blurb about what kind of underwear to bring and stuff.

If you fail, you go home. If you pass, you do the medical then you go home and wait for the phone call. When I went through, the doctor offered to email me if I passed the medical or not, found out about a month later that I had passed and which aircraft I didn't fit in. Some parts of it are uncomfortable, but most pass the medical, and most of those who don't are for things they didn't even know they had.


----------



## stcv3 (2 Mar 2014)

bradley247 said:
			
		

> Yes, the aircrew medical is in Toronto the next day. Don't the joining instructions mention that? Should be a little blurb about what kind of underwear to bring and stuff.
> 
> If you fail, you go home. If you pass, you do the medical then you go home and wait for the phone call. When I went through, the doctor offered to email me if I passed the medical or not, found out about a month later that I had passed and which aircraft I didn't fit in. Some parts of it are uncomfortable, but most pass the medical, and most of those who don't are for things they didn't even know they had.



Actually nobody mentioned it to me. I found information that states the medical is on the last day(which in my case means 12th, if I pass).
What you say really makes me curious about the whole medical. Didn't even know they could determine which aircraft you can fit in. Too bad that it's up to the doctor to tell you whether you're medically fit or not. I mean if you're not they might never tell you why?

There's still a week until I'm supposed to go to Trenton, but I haven't received a call yet. That's not good.


----------



## bradley247 (2 Mar 2014)

You mean you weren't given the joining instructions? http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/joining-instructions.page

The medical isn't an arbitrary decision, you go through a barrage of tests to determine if you meet the set medical standards for pilot. If they find something wrong when, I'm sure they would tell you.

And yes, they do anthropomorphic testing to determine which (if any) airplanes you fit in, they basically take pictures of you in your underwear and a computer analyzes it. When I was tested, I was told I didn't fit in the Hawk, therefore I couldn't fly jets, thankfully that's not what I wanted to fly.


----------



## ModlrMike (3 Mar 2014)

stcv3 said:
			
		

> Too bad that it's up to the doctor to tell you whether you're medically fit or not.



You had someone else in mind?


----------



## stcv3 (3 Mar 2014)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> You had someone else in mind?



I probably didn't express myself the right way. I just thought that if the doctor doesn't tell you what is wrong with you, and you're not fit to fly, they might never let you know why.


----------



## stcv3 (3 Mar 2014)

> You mean you weren't given the joining instructions? http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/joining-instructions.page


Nobody from the recruitment office mentioned it to me. I found this afterwards, and it's really useful. I actually emailed them to ask about the test, but got no reply.


> When I was tested, I was told I didn't fit in the Hawk, therefore I couldn't fly jets, thankfully that's not what I wanted to fly.


Can't imagine how that one would go, but jets aren't my first priority as well.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (4 Mar 2014)

stcv3 said:
			
		

> I probably didn't express myself the right way. I just thought that if the doctor doesn't tell you what is wrong with you, and you're not fit to fly, they might never let you know why.



 ??? It is your own medical info, why would they not tell you what the issue is if there is one ???  When I go to my yearly Flight Surgeon medical, it is an open discussion about my flying fitness and general health, with no mystery questions and answers.

 :2c:


----------



## verstrat10 (5 Mar 2014)

I would not stress out about the medical, it was probably my favorite part of the trip because you're not flippin out about whether or not you passed the computer tests. They explain that most of the people who don't pass are usually people with rare defects that they had no knowledge of. As to whether or not they will tell you if something is wrong with you, yeah they will they are obligated to let you know. One guy on my trip had something wrong with his eyes (thin muscle tissue in an area i believe) and they told him about it right away. So i would say just relax enjoy the trip and soak it all in, it in all honesty is a cool experience.


----------



## stcv3 (5 Mar 2014)

I don't know what I was thinking. Maybe I was too nervous assuming they wouldn't tell me about my medical condition, but it's the kind of attitude I'm getting from Toronto's recruitment office for some reason. They seem too busy and almost impossible to reach. I tried to get some reply about the ASC date, and finally got an email that I can't go next week because I replied too late. In reality what happened is the person responsible got sick and my name didn't get nominated. There was nothing wrong with my confirmation 
That's a response I got after emailing 4-5 times this week to ask for an update!

Now I got 2 more weeks to wait.


----------



## DAA (5 Mar 2014)

stcv3 said:
			
		

> I don't know what I was thinking. Maybe I was too nervous assuming they wouldn't tell me about my medical condition, but it's the kind of attitude I'm getting from Toronto's recruitment office for some reason. They seem too busy and almost impossible to reach. I tried to get some reply about the ASC date, and finally got an email that I can't go next week because I replied too late. In reality what happened is the person responsible got sick and my name didn't get nominated. There was nothing wrong with my confirmation
> That's a response I got after emailing 4-5 times this week to ask for an update!
> 
> Now I got 2 more weeks to wait.



Don't be discouraged.  Aircrew Selection is run on a continuous basis, so if you missed this one, there are many many more to come.  Usually every two weeks, give or take.  Just try to maintain regular contact with your CFRC, no matter how difficult and watch your email like a "hawk".


----------



## Mab163 (6 Mar 2014)

Just got the phone call. I'm going there March 24-26. Anyone else?

Second attempt but first one with the new testing system. Hopefully this one will be the good one.


----------



## verstrat10 (6 Mar 2014)

Goodluck Mab163! I kid you not (and this is going to sound crazy), the best thing i did to prepare for ACS besides practicing the typical time, distance, velocity type questions was to play "Star Fox 64" till i was blue in the face. There is something magical about that game.


----------



## t.robichaud (6 Mar 2014)

Same here mab163, got the call today and will be doing ACS on the 24-26 course.


----------



## stcv3 (7 Mar 2014)

verstrat10 said:
			
		

> Goodluck Mab163! I kid you not (and this is going to sound crazy), the best thing i did to prepare for ACS besides practicing the typical time, distance, velocity type questions was to play "Star Fox 64" till i was blue in the face. There is something magical about that game.



I should try that one as well. Any other tips and practices that might be helpful?

I'm also going on the 24-26th after that unfortunate misunderstanding that made me miss next week's course. Should get a call later today.


----------



## Mab163 (7 Mar 2014)

verstrat10 said:
			
		

> Goodluck Mab163! I kid you not (and this is going to sound crazy), the best thing i did to prepare for ACS besides practicing the typical time, distance, velocity type questions was to play "Star Fox 64" till i was blue in the face. There is something magical about that game.



I should try that as well!

See you there t.robichaud and stcv3. Where are you flying from?


----------



## verstrat10 (7 Mar 2014)

Just a heads up stcv3, sent you a PM with some links containing practice questions that really helped me out. If anybody else wants them or has a general question about ACS just let me know.


----------



## stcv3 (7 Mar 2014)

verstrat10 said:
			
		

> Just a heads up stcv3, sent you a PM with some links containing practice questions that really helped me out. If anybody else wants them or has a general question about ACS just let me know.



Thanks so much! That really looks helpful! Got something to practice on the weekend!


How are you guys getting to Trenton before the 24th? I checked Greyhound and VIA rail for Sunday, but they leave pretty late. I was hoping to get there earlier in the morning and have some time to prepare.


----------



## t.robichaud (7 Mar 2014)

I should try that as well!

See you there t.robichaud and stcv3. Where are you flying from?
[/quote]

Actually I`m driving to Trenton, I live near hamilton.


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## Mab163 (8 Mar 2014)

stcv3 said:
			
		

> How are you guys getting to Trenton before the 24th? I checked Greyhound and VIA rail for Sunday, but they leave pretty late. I was hoping to get there earlier in the morning and have some time to prepare.



Still waiting my travelling instructions. I believe I will fly from Montreal to Toronto. In the meantime, I'm studying to exceed these aptitude tests


----------



## stcv3 (8 Mar 2014)

Mab163 said:
			
		

> Still waiting my travelling instructions. I believe I will fly from Montreal to Toronto. In the meantime, I'm studying to exceed these aptitude tests



Hope they tell you soon, or just give them a call. They might have forgotten. That's what happened with me...


For anyone who might know,is there anywhere on the test where you have to add vectors? I saw on the form they sent me something about air speed, so I was wondering. :


----------



## t.robichaud (21 Mar 2014)

So I'm going to aircrew selection next week and I'm suppose to have been given a form so that I can stay at the hotel because I'm under 19. I received no such form and when I called my RC, they didn't have an answer. I found this form and I'm wondering if this is enough.
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/admin-instructions.page


----------



## PMedMoe (21 Mar 2014)

Wasn't any need to ask twice, but I'll reply here, since the question is more relevant to AC selection than to ROTP.

Yes, I'd say that's the form you need.


----------



## redorange363 (21 Mar 2014)

When I attended A/C selection the form was included with the package I received from the recruiting office to take with me .


----------



## a.schamb (3 Apr 2014)

I've been loaded onto the April 28-30 ACS! Anyone else? 

Went over the guide and have been practicing mental math, any other tips?


----------



## Mab163 (4 Apr 2014)

a.schamb said:
			
		

> I've been loaded onto the April 28-30 ACS! Anyone else?
> 
> Went over the guide and have been practicing mental math, any other tips?



Congrats! I went to ASC 2 weeks ago and I don't want to scare you but be prepared for the toughest test of your life. In our group, only 4 passed on 13...

I recommend you to practice mental math and distance/time/speed calculations (check www.speeddistancetime.info, very helpful).

Good luck!


----------



## ChadwickWheeler (3 May 2014)

I'll be heading to Trenton May 7th to 9th. Anybody else on here going at that time?


----------



## WildTiger (6 May 2014)

My ACS is being scheduled at the moment (fingers crossed for May 28-30 dates).

Did anyone need to bring medical documents to ACS? The recruiter didn't mention any required medical documents but on the website:
(http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/admin-instructions.page#s2) it says required documents prior to going to ACS,

Section Two:  Preliminary Medical
The preliminary medical—referred to as “the Part III medical” in the RHB consists of the following tests:

Eye test:  candidates must be seen by an ophthalmologist or optometrist (NOT an Optician):  
Blood test**:  Hemoglobin, WBC (white blood count), Lipids (cholesterol, HDL, LDL, triglycerides) and Fasting Blood Glucose
Chemical*(minimum specific gravity, protein, blood.) AND microscopic urinalysis
Physical Exam.  A routine physical exam of the candidate can be done by either a physician (medical doctor) or an MA (medical assistant). 


Can anyone confirm this?????  I thought this was done already at the first standard medical.


----------



## DAA (6 May 2014)

WildTiger said:
			
		

> My ACS is being scheduled at the moment (fingers crossed for May 28-30 dates).
> 
> Did anyone need to bring medical documents to ACS? The recruiter didn't mention any required medical documents but on the website:
> (http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/admin-instructions.page#s2) it says required documents prior to going to ACS,
> ...



Not 100% sure but I believe that your CFRC normally provides you with a copy of your medical records to hand carry with you.  Provided you pass the ASC testing, you are normally then shuttled to DRDC Toronto to undergo the "full" Aircrew Medical Screening/Exam.  The first medical at your CFRC is only the basic exam.


----------



## redorange363 (6 May 2014)

That is accurate DAA - that is what happened when I wrote mine in March.


----------



## WildTiger (15 May 2014)

Thanks!

How long does it usually take from the initial email to confirming the date for ACS? It's been about 2 weeks and I haven't heard any word yet.


----------



## hopefulpilot (19 May 2014)

WildTiger,

My son is also waiting for May 28-30 ACS confirmation.

How long does it usually take from the initial email to confirming the date for ACS? It's been about 2 weeks and I haven't heard any word yet.
[/quote]


----------



## Togakure (27 May 2014)

For everyone prepping for ASC... I'd read that the new tests are exactly the British RAF tests that we've just leased from them and are using basically unchanged. The Brits call it OASC. 

So, I did some looking around, and the Brits have a number of sources published on helping people prep for it. Reading the descriptions, it seems that the test is in fact the same, down to the same names being used. 

I just bought a test guide and a 900 question speed/distance/time test series from Amazon for the OASC. Haven't had a chance to look at them yet, but it seems like it should help. Just wanted to pass on the info to everyone out there. You can buy them from Kindle so you can get started on them right away. 

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B009XTGP7Q/ref=oh_d__o01_details_o01__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0081987FC/ref=oh_d__o00_details_o00__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Those who've done the test already - I know you can't say much about it, but do these seem helpful?

Cheers!


----------



## Togakure (29 May 2014)

Good to hear that all confirmed! After going through the book, it seems the benefit is that it offers a much more detailed explanation of each test than the candidate guide, along with tips on how to do well. 

Turns out I'm a fool at speed/distance/time and fuel calculations! 
Someone suggested an app called Math Workout which has been super helpful. I also picked one up called FindSpeed (which does speed/distance/time) and one called MemorizeTheNumber for memory strings.


----------



## WildTiger (23 Jun 2014)

Anyone get booked for ACS in July? My name was missed after being submitted  in May so they had to resubmit it again. Still no call yet...this happen to anyone?


----------



## Togakure (24 Jun 2014)

I am totally not surprised to hear that. Ah well. It happens when it happens I guess. I'm waiting on medical clearance from Ottawa. Maybe we'll be on it together.


----------



## OYR_Pilot (30 Jun 2014)

I heard that they changed the selection tests since I did it in January 2013.
If I had to give it a second try, would I still need to get my private liscence before or it is not necessary anymore with the new test?


----------



## Mab163 (3 Jul 2014)

Hannibal_Barca said:
			
		

> I heard that they changed the selection tests since I did it in January 2013.
> If I had to give it a second try, would I still need to get my private liscence before or it is not necessary anymore with the new test?



I will quote the Aircrew Selection Centre Administration Instructions which can be found at the following address: http://rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/admin-instructions.page



> If you have reason to believe a prospective candidate has already been tested at CFASC, contact the ASC Coord., who will confirm candidate’s status and previous results (pass or fail) if applicable.  Pilot selection transitioned from CAPSS to the Canadian Forces Aircrew Selection Testing (CFAST) in July 2013. Candidates who met the most recent CAPSS selection standard but were not enrolled, will not have to undergo CFAST testing. Candidates processed during the current fiscal year (FY 13/14) may be permitted to return to CFASC to complete the new CFAST sub-tests without waiting the required one year if their current Royal Air Force Aircrew Aptitude Test (RAFAAT PB8 ) performance meets the established cut-offs for the domain and index scores (4-5 sub-tests in the current RAFAAT (PB8) battery are the same for the CFAST). For candidates processed after the implementation of CFAST (July 2013), failure to meet the domain and index score cut-offs will require a complete retest.  IAW Personnel Psychology Directive 204 (PPD 204), candidates who fail to meet either the domain or index score cut-offs must wait a minimum of one year between test sessions, for a maximum of three attempts.  Furthermore, as Pilot candidates are provided detailed performance feedback with CFAST, and the nature of the testing is entirely computer-based, it is not necessary for candidates to complete academic upgrading or pilot license upgrading to be eligible for retesting.



Therefore, you will not need any pilot license upgrading. Cheers!


----------



## Gunshark (1 Aug 2014)

For anyone heading to Trenton soon, it's a good idea to bring a sweater. It was pretty chilly in the testing room this week.


----------



## WildTiger (11 Aug 2014)

Anyone know when the next round of pilots are being selected?  They said the next one is in November (Missed the July23rd date), but wanted a sanity check here.


----------



## Gunshark (11 Aug 2014)

Yeah, multiple sources point to mid-Nov.


----------



## pd89 (13 Aug 2014)

Hi,
I recently finished aircrew selection.  I failed pilot but passed for other trades. After the test, it was recommended that if I want to retest, I should get on Luminosity and study as much spatial awareness stuff on there as possible.  It was frustrating being pepped on test preperation after I wrote the test (Not before), so I figured I would share this info on the forum for others about to write the test.  I regret not doing more to prepare, and trust me, when you get there, you probably will too.
Good luck.


----------



## Gunshark (13 Aug 2014)

pd89 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> I recently finished aircrew selection.  I failed pilot but passed for other trades. After the test, it was recommended that if I want to retest, I should get on Luminosity and study as much spatial awareness stuff on there as possible.  It was frustrating being pepped on test preperation after I wrote the test (Not before), so I figured I would share this info on the forum for others about to write the test.  I regret not doing more to prepare, and trust me, when you get there, you probably will too.
> Good luck.



Never heard this advice either. You going to go with AEC or ACSO or will retake the test?


----------



## pd89 (13 Aug 2014)

Gunshark said:
			
		

> Never heard this advice either. *You going to go with AEC or ACSO or will retake the test?*



I have three weeks to decide, and I havent made the decision yet.  I will retake it in a year, I was told even if I am in a different trade in the CF I will be able to retake the test after 365 days from the first test.


----------



## Gunshark (15 Aug 2014)

pd89 said:
			
		

> I have three weeks to decide, and I havent made the decision yet.  I will retake it in a year, I was told even if I am in a different trade in the CF I will be able to retake the test after 365 days from the first test.



That may be true, but if you're already training for a different trade at that time, I don't know that you will be able to switch back into Pilot, or at least not right away, potentially not before putting in some years into the original trade. I seem to recall seeing in other threads here that in general it is better to apply from the get go into the trade that you want, as transfers are not a sure or a simple thing, though not uncommon. But you should research on that more if that's the path you're thinking of taking.


----------



## pd89 (15 Aug 2014)

Gunshark said:
			
		

> That may be true, but if you're already training for a different trade at that time, I don't know that you will be able to switch back into Pilot, or at least not right away, potentially not before putting in some years into the original trade. I seem to recall seeing in other threads here that in general it is better to apply from the get go into the trade that you want, as transfers are not a sure or a simple thing, though not uncommon. But you should research on that more if that's the path you're thinking of taking.



I've done my research and am aware of what that path entails. 
Thanks dad


----------



## RyanHealy29 (16 Aug 2014)

pd89 said:
			
		

> I've done my research and am aware of what that path entails.
> Thanks dad



Great attitude.


----------



## Jazzcat (18 Aug 2014)

I've been haunting the forums for a while now. I went to selection July 21st and passed for everything. My medical also looked good. However, I started stressing and called, and they did confirm that the next selection isn't until November, as stated earlier. I was wondering however, does this mean that I will not hear from them until then? I was hoping for some contact so that I didn't implode with wondering. Also, if selection is indeed around mid-November, does anyone perhaps know when we'd get shipped off to BMOQ if we were to receive an offer then? I am finding it very difficult to get answers out of my recruiters, though it seems through no fault of their own. They're having difficulties getting answers as well.

Thank you in advance! I appreciate it.


----------



## Molloy (18 Aug 2014)

Hey there,

Congratulations on passing ACS! It's certainly no easy feat. Now I'm not sure what recruiting center you are with, and I'm not sure if this policy is upheld in each RC, but there are quite a few now that will not call you to inform you that you have been merit listed. As such you can check in with them every two weeks or so to find out if you've been merit listed. And once you have confirmed your merit listing there's nothing more to do except wait. In order to avoid from imploding I would suggest focusing on PT, which you're probably already doing. There was a November selection last year as well, and those folks went to BMOQ at the beginning of January this year. So you might potentially expect a BMOQ next January. I wish you good luck!


----------



## DAA (18 Aug 2014)

Jazzcat said:
			
		

> I've been haunting the forums for a while now. I went to selection July 21st and passed for everything. My medical also looked good. However, I started stressing and called, and they did confirm that the next selection isn't until November, as stated earlier. I was wondering however, does this mean that I will not hear from them until then? I was hoping for some contact so that I didn't implode with wondering. Also, if selection is indeed around mid-November, does anyone perhaps know when we'd get shipped off to BMOQ if we were to receive an offer then? I am finding it very difficult to get answers out of my recruiters, though it seems through no fault of their own. They're having difficulties getting answers as well.
> 
> Thank you in advance! I appreciate it.



Once you are successful at Aircrew Selection, it takes 1-2 months before your medical file is returned with an approved/assigned Air Factor (AF).  So you need to follow up on that about 30-45 days after returning from ASC.  Once the AF is assigned, your CFRC will Merit List you.  Selections in Nov, mean BMOQ in January.

It's not like you are the first Pilot applicant your CFRC has processed, so they should be able to provide you with this "basic" information.

Good luck!


----------



## Jazzcat (20 Aug 2014)

Excellent! Thank you both, that helped a lot. I got a hold of my recruiting centre today. My medical forms were actually misplaced in Toronto X.X, so that's new on the agenda! But hopefully it will all be cleared up before November, fingers crossed!

Good luck to everyone for November selections


----------



## Kirtaries (19 Sep 2014)

Anyone else on here going to ASC Oct 1st? Also does anyone know if its too late to get loaded on this fiscal years CEOTP Program? Seeing as though I wont be doing BMOQ due to previous service. 

If I even pass ASC that is...


----------



## Denney24 (25 Oct 2014)

So I recently did my aptitude test and qualified for pilot.  Next up is the aircrew selection phase and I was wondering if anyone had any info/tips on what to study and prepare for since I am lost on what I really need to know.

Thanks in advance, any information is greatly appreciated.


----------



## DAA (25 Oct 2014)

Denney24 said:
			
		

> So I recently did my aptitude test and qualified for pilot.  Next up is the aircrew selection phase and I was wondering if anyone had any info/tips on what to study and prepare for since I am lost on what I really need to know.



Bottom right-hand side of this webpage (Candidate Guide) ----->  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/cf-aircrew-selection-centre.page

This is the "bare" minimum.  I am sure there are other posts here at Army.ca with recommendations for "extra" study materials.


----------



## powerrussia (27 Oct 2014)

I found this on the new ACS when I was looking for information about it. 



> The CAPSS simulator is not being used anymore, it has been now repalced by 28 tests, that take 8 hours or so over 2 days that are computer based. Testing memory, hand eye coordination, reasoning, and multitasking under extreme time pressures.
> This thing is fucking HARD. Not a single person thought they were doing well, which I think is also a part of the test design. Out of 15 candidates on my intake 4 people passed, the week before that out of 10, 0 people passed.
> The guide they give you is.. absolutely not helpful, bring a an ethernet cable for internet in your hotel, but the food is pretty good.
> Study up on your time time/distance/speed and fuel consumption, as there is a lot of it, a lot of math and make sure you can do it quickly.
> ...


----------



## powerrussia (29 Oct 2014)

Ryan, that was beautiful. Out of curiosity, after all that prep, how did you do?


----------



## northbound23 (30 Oct 2014)

Hey Ryan,

In the mathematical parts, do you get a pencil and paper to do calculations or is it all in your head?


----------



## Mab163 (30 Oct 2014)

northbound23 said:
			
		

> Hey Ryan,
> 
> In the mathematical parts, do you get a pencil and paper to do calculations or is it all in your head?



If I remember well, for some tests you will have the possibility to get a pencil and paper. However, most of the time all calculations are done in your head simultaneously with other task. Good luck!


----------



## SaskSquatch99 (15 Nov 2014)

> So I recently did my aptitude test and qualified for pilot.  Next up is the aircrew selection phase and I was wondering if anyone had any info/tips on what to study and prepare for since I am lost on what I really need to know. [/size]



A website with some pictures and all that other stuff is www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/assets/AIRFORCE_Internet/docs/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/guide-candidate.doc

..Fingers sore from typing that link..
*WARNING: May be outdated*

Hope this Helps,
Griffin C.

Edit: Fix huge font etc.


----------



## George Wallace (15 Nov 2014)

Ya think that was big enough for them to clue in?


----------



## SaskSquatch99 (15 Nov 2014)

Didn't know how to work this posting thing out sorry about the font size.


----------



## Chef Tony (15 Nov 2014)

Thank you Ryan. I am waiting for my dates for the ACS and  this is great information ! Do you guys think there will be an ACS session before the end of the year ?

Cheers !


----------



## Mab163 (24 Nov 2014)

Chef Tony said:
			
		

> Thank you Ryan. I am waiting for my dates for the ACS and  this is great information ! Do you guys think there will be an ACS session before the end of the year ?
> 
> Cheers !



I believe there is ACS session twice a week almost every week of the year except those with statutory holiday.


----------



## M.Hamada (19 Jan 2015)

Anyone have a general idea of what the joy stick and paddles should be or look like, if we were to buy them for the online program mentioned by Ryan? Thanks.


----------



## DAA (19 Jan 2015)

M.Hamada said:
			
		

> Anyone have a general idea of what the joy stick and paddles should be or look like, if we were to buy them for the online program mentioned by Ryan? Thanks.



I have to ask.  Have you done your Medical and Interview yet?


----------



## M.Hamada (19 Jan 2015)

No, I know its too early to start buying joysticks but the tests themselves seem interesting enough for me to do them anyways. Besides I've been thinking about this occupation all day and night so be aware I might turn into a die hard wanna be pilot.


----------



## mariomike (20 Jan 2015)

M.Hamada said:
			
		

> No, I know its too early to start buying joysticks but the tests themselves seem interesting enough for me to do them anyways. Besides I've been thinking about this occupation all day and night so be aware I might turn into a die hard wanna be pilot.



In addition to Ryan's advice, there is an 18 page discussion of Aircrew Selection you may find of interest.

Aircrew Selection/ACS (Merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/70257.300


----------



## M.Hamada (20 Jan 2015)

That's perfect thank you so much!


----------



## neo148 (30 Jan 2015)

Having recently done the Aircrew Selection and successfully passed, I can tell you that there is only really a handful of tests that you can actually truly prepare for by studying, which have been intensively covered on these forums. Each individual test is placed in a category, and you have to essentially pass each category to qualify for pilot. I forget how many different categories there are (I think 7 or 8?). The only thing I honestly wish I would have done is stress about it less, especially while there. Go there with a clear mindset, relax, and enjoy the experience. While the tests were definitely stressful, it was a fun and memorable experience. Good luck!


----------



## MSTG93 (30 Jan 2015)

The key word to remember in this thread is "aptitude".  The selection is based upon your own personal traits and how they match the traits which have been statistically proven to be shared by all successful pilots.  It's really not something you are able to practice.  We'll not quite true but the tests are designed to show innate performance, not learned performance so "studying" is of marginal help.  

Having said all of the though, work hard and do whatever it takes so you feel prepared.  If you are successful, then you've got a lot of work ahead to prove yourself yet, but you have all the right components to succeed.  

If you are unsuccessful, it just means that you lack one or some of the characteristics that you'd need as a pilot.  By no means is that a slam on you personally.  You wouldn't have been accepted for selection if you weren't bright or talented.  It just means you are better suited for being great at something else.  Pilot training is long and challenging.  Working as a pilot in the RCAF is even more so.  If anyone gets in this situation, ask yourself the hard questions of why you wanted to be a pilot in the first place.  Not meeting the selection might have just saved you years of hard work with no reward at the end.  Instead you can focus on a career (inside or outside the military), where your skills are best suited.

Best of luck, and may the number of take-offs always equal the number of landings in your logbook.


----------



## dimsum (30 Jan 2015)

MSTG93 said:
			
		

> ....may the number of take-offs always equal the number of landings in your logbook.



...unless you end up flying UAVs, in which case that would be very unusual.


----------



## sidemount (30 Jan 2015)

Or if you are only there for a ride up. Ive always enjoyed a landing under nylon ( not army nylon....those landings suck....a lot haha)

But I'm hoping to be looking after the other type of landing in the future. Heading for aircrew selection in 2 weeks for UTPNCM. Pretty nervous but excited at the same time.


----------



## suneek (20 Jul 2015)

Is anyone else here waiting for ACS call too ? Wondering what people are doing to prepare


----------



## DAA (20 Jul 2015)

sonic said:
			
		

> Is anyone else here waiting for ACS call too ? Wondering what people are doing to prepare



Most are studying the Student Prep package.  Someone mentioned that using Lumosity can also be of help.

Study Guide  -  http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page

Lumosity  -  http://www.lumosity.com/


----------



## 277to081 (20 Jul 2015)

Play a lot of Rock Band


----------



## Subasioglu (21 Jul 2015)

For those who passed ACS - wondering how your time scores were on this DST & fuel consumption practice site if you ever used it. http://www.speeddistancetime.info/

e.g. I'm averaging ~20 seconds each for the DST questions and ~30 seconds for fuel consumption ones.

Booked for 27-29 July 2015.


----------



## suneek (22 Jul 2015)

Subasioglu said:
			
		

> For those who passed ACS - wondering how your time scores were on this DST & fuel consumption practice site if you ever used it. http://www.speeddistancetime.info/
> 
> e.g. I'm averaging ~20 seconds each for the DST questions and ~30 seconds for fuel consumption ones.
> 
> Booked for 27-29 July 2015.



Amazing Subasioglu, wish you all the best for your test.
I am in the same range for speed distance questions. Hope its good enough. Will be great to hear from someone who has passed ACS.


----------



## suneek (22 Jul 2015)

DAA said:
			
		

> Most are studying the Student Prep package.  Someone mentioned that using Lumosity can also be of help.
> 
> Study Guide  -  http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page
> 
> Lumosity  -  http://www.lumosity.com/



Thank you. This is helpful.


----------



## raphbus19 (28 Jul 2015)

French will follow.

Hi,

I found real interesting information in the forum, but still have questions or did not find information about how to be prepared for the pilot aircrew selection. Most of what I read is that you cannot really prepare yourself for these tests except to be ready rested and try to follow instructions as precise as you can. Although would it be good to use a flight simulator in order to be more familiar with flight instrument and flight techniques? If so which simulator could be a good one to begin with?

Bonjour,

J'ai trouvé beaucoup d'information sur le forum, mais j'ai encore quelques questions ou simplement pas trouvé les réponses sur comment être prêt pour la sélection du personnel navigant de Trenton (pilote). La plupart des commentaires j'ai trouvés dit qu'il n'y pas vraiment de façon d'être prêt si ce n'est que d'être prêt psychologiquement et de suivre les instructions à la lettre. Cependant, serait-il bon d'utiliser un simulateur de vol pour se familiariser aux instruments et techniques de vol? Si oui, quel serait le meilleur simulateur pour commencer?

Thank you, Merci

Raphael


----------



## mariomike (28 Jul 2015)

raphbus19 said:
			
		

> < snip > did not find information about how to be prepared for the pilot aircrew selection.



This may help,

Aircrew Selection/ACS (Merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/70257.425

The "So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/12744.0


----------



## DAA (28 Jul 2015)

Study the Candidate Guide.  Then study it again.  If you get bored, study it again!!!

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page

Some prior applicants have also recommended that you use Lumosity and it helps.

http://www.lumosity.com/

I don't think "flight sims" are going to be of much use but I could be wrong.


----------



## Daishi (5 Aug 2015)

So after missing the ROTP selection cutoff back in 2012, I have graduated from Univeristy and am now going through the process again for Pilot. I was informed I did not have to redo my CFAT or an interview.

Ive gone through the paces so far, and just wrote my TSD today and was informed that I "passed" both and am competitive. He said that I will be getting an email closer to pilot selection for me to come in to do my medical before ACS.

Could anyone shine some light on this? I would think I should be getting my medical done ASAP as sending everything to Ottawa to get rubber stamped can take ages.


----------



## DAA (5 Aug 2015)

Daishi said:
			
		

> So after missing the ROTP selection cutoff back in 2012, I have graduated from Univeristy and am now going through the process again for Pilot. I was informed I did not have to redo my CFAT or an interview.
> Ive gone through the paces so far, and just wrote my TSD today and was informed that I "passed" both and am competitive. He said that I will be getting an email closer to pilot selection for me to come in to do my medical before ACS.
> Could anyone shine some light on this? I would think I should be getting my medical done ASAP as sending everything to Ottawa to get rubber stamped can take ages.



Your CFRC has little to no control over the next step, which for you, will be the medical.  You will be selected for further processing in competition with everyone else who is applying for DEO Pilot and this part, is managed by another office and not your CFRC.

Also, the medical is only valid for 12 months, so you will probably be starting from scratch, if or when you get called.


----------



## Entropic (11 Sep 2015)

Subasioglu said:
			
		

> For those who passed ACS - wondering how your time scores were on this DST & fuel consumption practice site if you ever used it. http://www.speeddistancetime.info/
> 
> e.g. I'm averaging ~20 seconds each for the DST questions and ~30 seconds for fuel consumption ones.
> 
> Booked for 27-29 July 2015.



I recently passed ACS for both Pilot and ACSO a few weeks ago and scored above average for the former and a bit higher for the latter. I have been merit listed for ACSO but my medical file for pilot is still being processed. For the above link I took each test twice and averaged ~6s and ~9s respectively for the DST and fuel. Quite a few of the tests at ACS will require you to be good at doing mental calculations accurately and under considerable time pressure. I have a quantitative background (economics and mathematics) and indeed the numerical/mathematical portion of the test was my strongest. However, many of tests test other qualities such as ability to multi-task, spatial abilities, motor skills etc and many of them are things that you either got or you don't (innate), so just try your best. If there is one tip I can give however, it is to carefully read the instructions for each test. I almost failed a section because I did not fully understand the instructions and only realized my mistake about 1/3 through that test.


----------



## aero_dude (15 Sep 2015)

Entropic said:
			
		

> I recently passed ACS for both Pilot and ACSO a few weeks ago and scored above average for the former and a bit higher for the latter. I have been merit listed for ACSO but my medical file for pilot is still being processed. For the above link I took each test twice and averaged ~6s and ~9s respectively for the DST and fuel.



Congrats! 

Your scores for the DST and fuel questions caught my attention. I do not think those results are possible; just reading the question and guessing the answer takes at least 7-8s for DST, and a few secs more for fuel consumption. Could be a typo. I averaged 10s for DST and about 18-20s for fuel consumption, background in aero eng.

Also, I was recently contacted for ACS testing for Fall 2015. Have read all the material in regards to this process, but, if it is OK to share such info, would like to know how the testing was broken down during the first 2 days at CFB Trenton from someone who recently went there for ACS.

Thanks


----------



## motox701 (15 Sep 2015)

Aero_dude

That's great news on being contacted for ACS. How were you notified - email, regular mail or phone call??

Thanks


----------



## Entropic (15 Sep 2015)

aero_dude said:
			
		

> Congrats!
> 
> Your scores for the DST and fuel questions caught my attention. I do not think those results are possible; just reading the question and guessing the answer takes at least 7-8s for DST, and a few secs more for fuel consumption. Could be a typo. I averaged 10s for DST and about 18-20s for fuel consumption, background in aero eng.
> 
> ...



I just took another 2 of the DST, take it as you will 

http://imgur.com/a/hl5ox

In any case, being fast at mental math only helps on a few of the tests. ACS tests other mental qualities so the important thing is to be proficient at all of them since failing one section means you fail the entire thing (I just barely passed the minimum in a couple sections, one because I didn't follow the instructions properly at first, and the other I just did not have a good natural aptitude for it)

Hmmm I dont think I am allowed to tell you the order of the tests and in any case I dont really remember. I will just reiterate to really pay attention to the instructions for each test and follow them to the tee.



			
				motox701 said:
			
		

> Aero_dude
> 
> That's great news on being contacted for ACS. How were you notified - email, regular mail or phone call??
> 
> Thanks



Not him but I was notified by phone call by my file manager. Keep in contact with your file manager! Sometimes your file just gets lost in the stacks


----------



## aero_dude (16 Sep 2015)

Entropic said:
			
		

> I just took another 2 of the DST, take it as you will
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/hl5ox
> 
> In any case, being fast at mental math only helps on a few of the tests. ACS tests other mental qualities so the important thing is to be proficient at all of them since failing one section means you fail the entire thing (I just barely passed the minimum in a couple sections, one because I didn't follow the instructions properly at first, and the other I just did not have a good natural aptitude for it)



That is very impressive! Well good for you! 



> Hmmm I dont think I am allowed to tell you the order of the tests and in any case I dont really remember. I will just reiterate to really pay attention to the instructions for each test and follow them to the tee.



Yeah thought so, thanks for you input! Really appreciate it.



> Not him but I was notified by phone call by my file manager. Keep in contact with your file manager! Sometimes your file just gets lost in the stacks



I was sent an email with available course dates spanning through Fall. For the interview I was contacted by phone, so I guess the means they choose to contact candidates is at the discretion of the recruiter.


----------



## Revan (16 Sep 2015)

When you go make sure you stay positive and enjoy the experience.  As stated there will be a considerable time pressure and you most likely will have multiple tests where you don't answer all questions.  MAKE SURE YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS! No one can really give you a break down or tell you the order of the tests but anything you read in the joining instructions and candidate guide is accurate regarding the breaks and time frames of the tests.  It is stressful and if you come out of day 1 feeling like you failed, you need to push through and remind yourself its not over till its over.

I will tell you though when i got my results and they told me i passed for all 3 trades i was grinning like and idiot... so that happens too.

Just enjoy the experience, 8-wing is a great place and the guys that run the air crew selection centre are some of the best people you will have the pleasure of meeting. From my personal experience.

Apologies if this doesn't fit with the discussion but i went in nervous as hell and came out thankful for the experience and the friends i made


----------



## Entropic (16 Sep 2015)

Revan said:
			
		

> When you go make sure you stay positive and enjoy the experience.  As stated there will be a considerable time pressure and you most likely will have multiple tests where you don't answer all questions.  MAKE SURE YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS! No one can really give you a break down or tell you the order of the tests but anything you read in the joining instructions and candidate guide is accurate regarding the breaks and time frames of the tests.  It is stressful and if you come out of day 1 feeling like you failed, you need to push through and remind yourself its not over till its over.



This is good advice here. Work quickly and accurately but on quite a few of the tests you will probably not answer all the questions in that test. Don't stress out about it too much as long as you got most of it done (correctly). I know that in quite a few of the tests I was only able to do ~85% of the questions (as in answered), at least for the tests where the time limit was for the test. In a lot of the tests, questions are timed per question.


----------



## motox701 (29 Sep 2015)

Hi guys/gals

I finally received an email invite to ACS. I picked the Nov 2-4 date - Anyone else on this forum attending on that date??

Cheers,
Rob


----------



## aero_dude (7 Oct 2015)

motox701 said:
			
		

> Hi guys/gals
> 
> I finally received an email invite to ACS. I picked the Nov 2-4 date - Anyone else on this forum attending on that date??
> 
> ...



Congrats! 

That is one of the dates that I selected; waiting for confirmation.


----------



## EternalPharoah (7 Oct 2015)

Congrats Gents!  My interview and medical is on Oct 21st so nowhere close to ACS yet but still getting all tingly every time I hear someone say they've got their dates booked in.  Keep us posted Moto!


----------



## knhenike (14 Oct 2015)

Entropic said:
			
		

> This is good advice here. Work quickly and accurately but on quite a few of the tests you will probably not answer all the questions in that test. Don't stress out about it too much as long as you got most of it done (correctly). I know that in quite a few of the tests I was only able to do ~85% of the questions (as in answered), at least for the tests where the time limit was for the test. In a lot of the tests, questions are timed per question.



ok so let me ask a question about the nature of the questions. are the answers mostly integers or are there precise answers for the arithmetic. the candidate guide doesn't make any mention.


----------



## suneek (15 Oct 2015)

Based on instructions in airborne numerical test from the study guide, it says round up any number with .5 and higher where as round down for .49 and lower. So seems like the test will want whole numbers.


----------



## suneek (15 Oct 2015)

Anyone here going for ACS end of this month ?


----------



## reinvented (16 Oct 2015)

I received an email with three sets of dates and I selected October 24-26 as my "preferred" but I have yet to hear back as to whether or not it has been confirmed so I may or may not be going to ACS at the end of this month.


----------



## aero_dude (21 Oct 2015)

sonic said:
			
		

> Anyone here going for ACS end of this month ?



Yup, I'm heading there Oct. 26th.


----------



## djcwall (28 Oct 2015)

Hello,

I've been working my way through the ROTP application and have been green lit by medical, and the interview. I'm just trying to find out what studying I should try and do, or what I should know for the selection process in Trenton.

If anyone who has gone through it could advise me as to the challenges, difficulties, and work load I would be appreciative.

Thanks,

DJ


----------



## mariomike (28 Oct 2015)

djcwall said:
			
		

> If anyone who has gone through it could advise me as to the challenges, difficulties, and work load I would be appreciative.



This may help,

Aircrew Selection/ACS (Merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/70257.425
20 pages.


----------



## reinvented (28 Oct 2015)

You can also read the official Candidate Guide and Joining Instructions from the RCAF website.

Candidate Guide
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page

Joining Instructions
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/joining-instructions.page


----------



## Kanoga (31 Oct 2015)

Anyone heading to ASC on Nov 30th to Dec 2nd. Or Dec 7th-9th? 

Those are the days I picked. I'm just waiting for a confirmation.


----------



## aero_dude (2 Nov 2015)

I went through ACS last week and passed for all trades, my first choice is pilot. There is a lot of great advice on this forum already but I would like to emphasize the following:

1. Make sure you are well rested. You want to be fresh and alert when going through the test.

2. Read the instructions a few times until you feel comfortable. A lot of people made mistakes because they did not read the instructions carefully.

3. Do not stress out! It is easier said than done, but try to remain cool and calm throughout the whole test. My strategy was to go in assuming that I would not pass and that there wasn't anything to lose. This helped me remain calm and focused during the testing.

The purpose of ACS is not to test who can or cannot become a pilot, but rather to identify individuals with better odds of passing pilot training given the limited amount of resources. Remember that even if you do not pass, it is better that you fail early on rather than 3-4 years down the road by which time you would have invested a lot more into this career. 

I hope this was helpful and good luck on your ACS!

PS. If, like myself, you are debating whether or not this is the right career path, I recommend watching "Jetstream" (if you have not done so already).


----------



## suneek (5 Nov 2015)

Thanks for the great tips aero_dude and congratulations on passing your ACS. Will you be able to share an example of instructions people got wrong, and things to watch out for. 

Again really happy for you. I shall be heading for my ACS very soon. How was the experience staying on base? was it intimidating at all surrounded by such great people ? And do you recommend getting there sat/sun before the test ?


----------



## aero_dude (11 Nov 2015)

sonic said:
			
		

> Thanks for the great tips aero_dude and congratulations on passing your ACS. Will you be able to share an example of instructions people got wrong, and things to watch out for.
> 
> Again really happy for you. I shall be heading for my ACS very soon. How was the experience staying on base? was it intimidating at all surrounded by such great people ? And do you recommend getting there sat/sun before the test ?



I am not sure on what they got wrong, and would not be able to share that info even if I did know, but make sure to read the instructions carefully. They are very clear and not structured to confuse you. I think people just rush through them and miss important detail.

The experience at the base was somewhat intimidating just because I got a (very brief) look into military life. But the amenities were much better than what I expected; you will have your own "hotel-like" room. I recommend getting there on Sunday, you will have enough time to settle down and get ready for the test. Don't stress out too much, try to have fun and enjoy the experience!

Good luck!  


Lest we forget


----------



## suneek (11 Nov 2015)

Thank you. One more thing, in the joining instructions it mentions to wear formal, however at the recruitment office i was told that jeans and t shirts are ok. How were things in your experience ?


----------



## mariomike (11 Nov 2015)

sonic said:
			
		

> One more thing, in the joining instructions it mentions to wear formal, however at the recruitment office i was told that jeans and t shirts are ok.



It does not say "formal".

Candidates attending aircrew selection should treat this assessment process as an extension of the job interview.  As such, all candidates, regardless of entry plan, will wear business casual civilian dress.  *Denim jeans, track pants/shirts, yoga gear, T-shirts, shorts, running shoes, flip-flops, or sandals are NOT permitted during working hours.* 
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/joining-instructions.page#s3


----------



## sidemount (11 Nov 2015)

Wear something comfortable though (especially footwear)....you will be spending a lot of time in front of a pc


----------



## Kanoga (21 Nov 2015)

Anyone going for ASC on Nov 30th -Dec 2. Just got my dates!


----------



## EternalPharoah (23 Nov 2015)

Wow that's awesome man!  Good luck.  I'm still waiting for mine.  Out of curiosity, I know it differs case by case, but what was your timeline like from interview/medical to getting your dates for ASC?

I had my interview and medical on the same day a month ago, then submitted all that additional medical paperwork (blood work, ecg) they asked for about 3 weeks ago.


----------



## Kanoga (23 Nov 2015)

Hi EternalPharoah,

I did my interview/medical at the beginning of September, then I handed in my bloodwork and stuff, 2 weeks after. So my guess is your ASC should be somewhere in January. 

Best of luck!


----------



## suneek (24 Nov 2015)

Hi, 

Can anyone shed some light on how long does it take to get selected after completing ACS and medical ?


----------



## reinvented (24 Nov 2015)

sonic said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on how long does it take to get selected after completing ACS and medical ?



I'll let you know. I did ACS on Nov 2-4 and they said expect around 4-6 weeks to hear back regarding the medical results. After that I'm assuming it's the merit list and then just waiting for the call for BMOQ! Keep in mind that your performance at ACS will also determine how long it takes to be selected.


----------



## Alan_Gomes (8 Dec 2015)

Hi folks,

AEC applicant here

Still waiting on the results of my medical but starting to prep for aircrew selection

make sure you guys check your local library e-resources, I'm in Toronto area and we have some good AFAST practice exams through learning express library. and its free!

admittedly i do work in the library

sorry i didn't let you know about this earlier Ryan!


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## bruyns (21 Dec 2015)

sonic said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on how long does it take to get selected after completing ACS and medical ?



Completed ACS late February and received an offer early July.


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## aero_dude (8 Jan 2016)

sonic said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on how long does it take to get selected after completing ACS and medical ?



I completed ACS last week of October 2015, and just got a call that I have been selected! ...sweating buckets at work lol


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## suneek (8 Jan 2016)

Congrats aero dude. Did they say when you will start BMOQ?


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## aero_dude (8 Jan 2016)

Thank you Sonic,

Was told BMOQ starts May 23rd and that enrollment is on May 4th.


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## reinvented (13 Jan 2016)

I just got my offer today for Pilot as well! Looks like we'll be on the same course aero_dude.


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## suneek (13 Jan 2016)

When did you write your ACS ?


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## suneek (13 Jan 2016)

Congrats reinvented


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## reinvented (13 Jan 2016)

Thanks man. I went to ACS first week of November 2015.


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## aero_dude (14 Jan 2016)

reinvented said:
			
		

> I just got my offer today for Pilot as well! Looks like we'll be on the same course aero_dude.



Congrats! See you at St. Jean!


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## brewski5000 (14 Jan 2016)

Hi All. Question about ACS timelines, because I've gotten somewhat conflicting info between my Candidate Guide and other fora like this one.

My CFRC email about scheduling says ACS is 3 days long. I know you do Aircrew Medical if you do well on the standardized tests. Are the tests on the first day, and then medical on the other two days? Or, are the tests over 2-3 days, but then you end up being away from home for longer because of medical after that? Just trying to plan my time. Thanks.


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## aero_dude (14 Jan 2016)

brewski5000 said:
			
		

> My CFRC email about scheduling says ACS is 3 days long.



The actual test is about 7 hours long and is administered during the first 2 days. If you pass that, then on Day 3 you will be traveling to Toronto for Medical testing at the DRDC. Hope this is clear.


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## brewski5000 (14 Jan 2016)

Hi aero_dude. Thanks so much, that's great.

PS: Congrats!!!! Hope to join you before long. I'm hoping to get in by that summer BMOQ, too.


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## brewski5000 (17 Jan 2016)

One more question for ya'll about ACS. I'm on a Mon-Wed serial. If I'm successful in the testing, will they send me off to the aircrew medical in Toronto on the Tuesday evening or the Wednesday morning? I ask because I live in TO and I'm wondering if I'll get to spend the Tuesday night with my SO. Thanks.


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## sidemount (17 Jan 2016)

As soon as you are done at ACS (if you pass) you are off to TO.
Guess you are heading that way regardless.


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## suneek (18 Jan 2016)

If you reside in Toronto, you will be asked to stay Tuesday night at your place and meet up for medicals Wednesday morning(it makes sense). At least that is what happened with me. 

Good luck.


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## brewski5000 (18 Jan 2016)

Thanks so much, guys/gals. Now I'm hunkered in self-imposed math camp until after.  [


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## JackMerridrew (2 Feb 2016)

Just got the email confirmation! Anyone here heading to CFASC on February 15th?


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## djcwall (18 Feb 2016)

Thank you all for your support and information,

Just an update, I passed the ASC top of my course and have passed all medicals so far. I'm hoping to be in the air sooner than later.


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## Tgunn1109 (22 Feb 2016)

WOW, lots of successful candidates...Congrats to you all!

I will be in Trenton in a few weeks and I am very scared about the Speed/distance/time and fuel consumption test.

Which one is better? Making sure they are all good or trying to get the right answer without wasting any time. like 1 minute per questions?


Thank you


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## Keepsprayin (10 Mar 2016)

Hi everyone!

I've just recently completed and passed ACS for pilot and AEC. Just waiting to hear back now. I can answer most questions about what ACS is like so feel free to PM me or just reply 



			
				Tgunn1109 said:
			
		

> WOW, lots of successful candidates...Congrats to you all!
> 
> I will be in Trenton in a few weeks and I am very scared about the Speed/distance/time and fuel consumption test.
> 
> ...



Hey! 
Don't stress too much. There's only so much you can really prepare for. Sure practice your time/distance/fuel calculations but as long as you can complete those questions in around a minute per question, I wouldn't worry too much. My average was around 55 seconds. 
This test will be THE hardest test you'll ever do in your life. Seriously, it's no joke. Get enough sleep, stay hydrated, and try not to stress too much. 
Out of our group of 17, 5 passed for pilot.


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## Loachman (10 Mar 2016)

Keepsprayin said:
			
		

> This test will be THE hardest test you'll ever do in your life.



No, it won't be.


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## Keepsprayin (10 Mar 2016)

Loachman said:
			
		

> No, it won't be.



I was quoting what one of the officers at CFASC said during the briefing so I'm taking his word for it.


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## Loachman (10 Mar 2016)

I did ASC a while ago, and a few things afterwards. I disagree with that fellow.

Things may have changed, but I don't think that there has been that much of a reversal.


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## Keepsprayin (10 Mar 2016)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I did ASC a while ago, and a few things afterwards. I disagree with that fellow.
> 
> Things may have changed, but I don't think that there has been that much of a reversal.



I doubt things have changed much. I think he was exaggerating. Anywho, it's the most difficult test I've done so far. I found it more challenging than university exams.


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## reinvented (11 Mar 2016)

Keepsprayin said:
			
		

> Sure practice your time/distance/fuel calculations but as long as you can complete those questions in around a minute per question



I think this is way too slow. For TSD calculations you should be at the 10-20s range and for fuel consumption calculations 30-40s max.


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## Keepsprayin (11 Mar 2016)

reinvented said:
			
		

> I think this is way too slow. For TSD calculations you should be at the 10-20s range and for fuel consumption calculations 30-40s max.



Possibly. Just goes to show you that the math is just a portion of the tesr. There is so much more to test on. I was scoring around the 50-55 seconds mark for fuel consumptions and around 30-40 for TSD and I passed without any problems. Of course the better you can do the better it is but just keep in mind you have to score a minimum in all categories to pass so even if you do well with math, if your spatial reasoning sucks you can still fail the testing.


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## Good2Golf (11 Mar 2016)

If you spend nearly a minute doing an endurance/fuel consumption calculation you'll be hanging onto the elevators/tail boom banging in the door to get the back-enders to help you back inside the aircraft.  You should always have in the back of your mind mental re-calculations of time to go and fuel remaining, as well as a few other critical calculations pretty much on a continuous basis, not only for absolute numbers and timings, but also assessing the better/worse trending of those calculations to have a solid understanding of how your current situation is developing. Timings as you have described are 'good enough' to have gotten you into the front-end of the selection process, but those shouldn't be taken as indicators of what is required actually flying an aircraft operationally in the RCAF.

:2c:

G2G


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## Keepsprayin (11 Mar 2016)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> If you spend nearly a minute doing an endurance/fuel consumption calculation you'll be hanging onto the elevators/tail boom banging in the door to get the back-enders to help you back inside the aircraft.  You should always have in the back of your mind mental re-calculations of time to go and fuel remaining, as well as a few other critical calculations pretty much on a continuous basis, not only for absolute numbers and timings, but also assessing the better/worse trending of those calculations to have a solid understanding of how your current situation is developing. Timings as you have described are 'good enough' to have gotten you into the front-end of the selection process, but those shouldn't be taken as indicators of what is required actually flying an aircraft operationally in the RCAF.
> 
> :2c:
> 
> G2G



Absolutely, I agree. That's why I'll be practicing my arithmetic to get faster at these kinds of calculations. But as this is a thread regarding ACS, I was just telling people my current experience. I have no idea how competitive my test results are, I've only just recently done it so I'll keep you folks up to date if I get an offer.


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## Good2Golf (11 Mar 2016)

Fair enough, but what is true about this business is it's one of an endless series of steps and you're always climbing.  Good on getting through the entry portal.  Stay on the math and, if you haven't thought about it when brushing up on arithmetic, think about doing a little reading on the principle of the slide rule (linear, or circular like the E-6B).  Similar principles of ratios are involved in tachymetric calculation of speeds or distances, hence the tachymeter on the outer bezel of many aviator chronographs.  Never underestimate the value of a tachymeter when your AMS decides to do a Ctrl-Alt-Del when you're setting up for a final run in to your Tgt/destination of choice.

Cheers
G2G


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## Alan_Gomes (12 Mar 2016)

reinvented said:
			
		

> I think this is way too slow. For TSD calculations you should be at the 10-20s range and for fuel consumption calculations 30-40s max.



thanks that info is a bit of a relief

heading to Trenton on Monday, tackling this mentally as a fun vacation rather than a challenge


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## reinvented (13 Mar 2016)

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but just in case you're not I don't think that's the right mindset to have. The ACS experience is pretty fun but as soon as those tests start you should definitely take it seriously if you actually want to pass.


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## bscriber (20 Mar 2016)

Good evening,

I have my interview and medical at CFRC Kingston on the 29th of March.  I have applied for AEC, Intelligence Officer, and MARS officer.  For the AEC position, will I have to do the ACS at Trenton after the interview, or would they want the results before the interview?

If the case is that is done after the interview, is there a long wait before I am asked to do ACS?  Right now, I work for an accounting firm, and it's tax season, so I need to plan any time off carefully and well in advance.

Thanks for any advice.


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## Loachman (21 Mar 2016)

You have to get past the initial recruiting stage prior to Aircrew Selection - there is no sense doing the higher level before the lower level has been successfully completed.

There is a whole thread regarding Aircrew Selection. If you've not yet read through it, you should. Also check the Application Process Samples thread.


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## bscriber (24 Mar 2016)

Thanks Loachman!  My bosses aren't keen on people taking time off during tax season, so I need to plan my time off as carefully as possible.  I wasn't sure if ACS testing came before or after the initial interview, and whether I needed to book time off for it before April 30th.


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## DAA (24 Mar 2016)

bscriber said:
			
		

> Thanks Loachman!  My bosses aren't keen on people taking time off during tax season, so I need to plan my time off as carefully as possible.  I wasn't sure if ACS testing came before or after the initial interview, and whether I needed to book time off for it before April 30th.



Aircrew Selection Testing is now administered prior to the Medical/Interview stage at your local CFRC.  So if your CFAT results are reasonably good, they will contact you at some point in time to schedule the ASC portion.   If you aren't available due to work commitments, you just need to tell them this and they should be able to work around it.


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## Loachman (24 Mar 2016)

One learns something new everyday. Thanks.

And this makes a lot of sense to me, as the non-flight-surgeon numpty doctor that did my medical prior to my ASC in the latter part of the last century tried to claim, based upon the eye exam, that my eyesight would deteriorate to an unacceptable level within five years. ASC cleared that up, and explained that standard exams are not predictive and there was no reason to make such a claim.

I am not sure if I agree with the lack of interview before ASC, but cannot think of a good reason for requiring one either.


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## bscriber (24 Mar 2016)

Thanks for the info...I haven't yet been called to do my ASC, but I do have my interview on the 29th.  I'll see what positions are offered in the interview, as I have also applied to Intelligence Officer and MARS officer.  Intel is my personal preference, AEC was my 2nd choice


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## rookie9 (3 Apr 2016)

Hi I recieved the confirmation for the ACS in Trenton for april 11-12 , does anyone have tips for me , I am excitted but nervous at the same.....  ;D


Recruiting Center: Montreal
Regular/Reserve: Reserve
Officer/NCM:     Pilot
Trade Choice 1: Helo
Trade Choice 2: 
Trade Choice 3: 
Application Date: September, 2015
First Contact: October, 2015
CFAT: January 14, 2016 Passed
Medical : February 18, 2016
Interview completed: February 18, 2016
ACS TES: April 11-12, 2016
Background :Civil Pilot
Merit listed:
Position Offered:
Enrollment :
Basic Training Begins:


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## Loachman (3 Apr 2016)

Tips? Yes. They're all in the preceding twenty-two pages. You have time to read them.

"Officer/NCM:" is not "Pilot". It's "Officer" or "NCM".

"Trade (really "Occupation", as, prior to the adoption of the term "Occupation", Officers had "Classifications" and NCMs had "Trades") Choice" would be "Pilot".


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## Alan_Gomes (3 Apr 2016)

reinvented said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but just in case you're not I don't think that's the right mindset to have. The ACS experience is pretty fun but as soon as those tests start you should definitely take it seriously if you actually want to pass.



I did pass in the end, barely

really that mentality is more of a way to keep calm when dealing with stress

now all I have to do is email the recruiting center till I get merit listed 

the examiners read this thread btw


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## Keepsprayin (5 Apr 2016)

rookie9 said:
			
		

> Hi I recieved the confirmation for the ACS in Trenton for april 11-12 , does anyone have tips for me , I am excitted but nervous at the same.....  ;D



As Loachman said, this entire thread is full of tips to help you through the ACS process.

I purchased a subscription for Lumosity to help me train but I didn't find it all that helpful since there is very little on the test that relates to the games in the apps. But it is a good way to get your brain working as some of the games put you under stress while accomplishing tasks and that is useful for the test since you are constantly under stress. 

Also, use speeddistancetime.info to practice your fuel consumption and speed distance time equations. Try to get the lowest possible time per question.

Most importantly, keep calm during the test. Don't fret if you feel like you're not doing well. There were times when I felt I had completely failed a test and I honestly though I wasn't going to pass the test.

Oh and pay attention the presentations they have after the first day of testing. It answered a lot of my questions about the training process and more importantly, it opened my mind to the other trades (ACSO & AEC).


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## JBelec (6 Apr 2016)

rookie9 said:
			
		

> Hi I recieved the confirmation for the ACS in Trenton for april 11-12 , does anyone have tips for me , I am excitted but nervous at the same.....  ;D
> 
> 
> Recruiting Center: Montreal
> ...





Cool, Im there on 11-12Apr 16 also  . Only tip I can give you is to prepare for every aspect described in the candidate guide. Ive been practicing for months.
See you there!
Jacques


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## architectgrad (21 Apr 2016)

Hi there I was wondering if anyone knew approximately how often the ASC will be conducting test sessions and also how often will BMOQ be running a new course this summer. 

Just thought it would give me an idea of what the best case scenario might be if all my paper work goes through smoothly.

Thanks so much [lol:


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## DAA (21 Apr 2016)

Aircrew Selection (ASC) testing runs biweekly.

BMOQ Serials are course loaded based on the successful completion of application processing and the demand for Officer occupations.  At the present time, there are two BMOQ (DEO) Serials upcoming on 16 and 23 May.


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## Loachman (21 Apr 2016)

architectgrad said:
			
		

> Hi there I was wondering if anyone knew approximately how often the ASC will be conducting test sessions and also how often will BMOQ be running a new course this summer.
> 
> Just thought it would give me an idea of what the best case scenario might be if all my paper work goes through smoothly.
> 
> Thanks so much [lol:



Welcome to Army.ca, architectgrad

There is a ton of information regarding these matters on this Site already. Please explore relevant older threads, especially those stickied at the top of each forum. That includes massive ASC and Application Process Samples threads, and many others. There is no sense repeating questions that have been answered before, sometimes many times, and you will also likely find answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.


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## cjdm1489 (17 May 2016)

Hi All,

I have a little bit of an odd situation and I'm hoping someone will be able to ease my mind a little bit. 

I applied for DEO Pilot in 2013 and progressed successfully through the application process to the point where I was asked to attend ACS in October of 2014. I managed to pass the dreaded aptitude test in Trenton however I failed the medical in Toronto due to high blood pressure. I passed all other portions of the medical testing. My file was closed after the failed medical and I was instructed to re-apply online if I wanted to try again. (I found out later in the medical forum I could have requested my file be re-opened by the medical staff rather than fully re-apply... ooops) 

As a type A personality my failure was unacceptable and I re-applied promptly in early 2015. Finally, in April 2016 I completed my interview and update medical successfully with normal BP! I'm currently waiting for my medical to be approved by Ottawa. In order to keep my blood pressure low I'm looking for answers to these questions!

1. Is my aptitude test score from ACS in October 2014 still valid now in 2016?
2. Can I be granted AF1 without visiting the Defense Center in Toronto again? (Scored good BP reading at update medical and submitted 24HR BP monitor results showing normal BP)

Thanks for your time!


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## DAA (17 May 2016)

cjdm1489 said:
			
		

> 1. Is my aptitude test score from ACS in October 2014 still valid now in 2016?
> 2. Can I be granted AF1 without visiting the Defense Center in Toronto again? (Scored good BP reading at update medical and submitted 24HR BP monitor results showing normal BP)



I do believe that ASC test results are valid for 24 months (max), after that you will most likely need to re-do them.  As far as the medical portion is concerned, they may very well just forward your file back to Toronto for review without the need for a physical visit.


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## cjdm1489 (18 May 2016)

Ok that's what I wanted to hear. We shall see what happens. I know the old flight sim aptitude test was valid for 5 years however I don't know about the more recent test. 24 months seems short, could I lose that many brain cells in 24 months?  :blotto:


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## Louisn27 (20 May 2016)

I also have this date booked for ACS. Four hours on Friday for testing for AES OP. I guess this is a new process applicants have to take? Or maybe it is a one day medical? I am not sure but will study just in case.


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## blacktriangle (21 May 2016)

Good luck!


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## cdtwo2evans (23 May 2016)

reinvented said:
			
		

> I think this is way too slow. For TSD calculations you should be at the 10-20s range and for fuel consumption calculations 30-40s max.


So would doing 16 seconds a question be good? thats what i score on the practice questions for TSD and usually get 80 to 90% correct


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## bscriber (8 Jun 2016)

Good morning,

Just wanted to write to say that I have completed my ACS testing and passed (just barely).  What a brutal experience!

Anyways, if there is anyone from the 2016061A (06-08 June 2016) serial that is on here, please feel free to PM me. I'd like to keep in touch.  

Sincerely, 

Brian (the guy who lived in Trenton, if that helps)


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## Deleted member 102242 (21 Jul 2016)

Hi all,

I've been selected to go to ACS in August here. However, I am somewhat confused. I have not yet gone for an interview. My understanding was that you do not go to ACS until you have done sufficiently well both on your interview AND your CFAT before you are flown to Tranton. Anyways, I'm excited, but a little bit apprehensive about whether or not they have made a mistake by wanting to send me this early in the process.


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## Posthumane (27 Jul 2016)

FA22raptero said:
			
		

> I've been selected to go to ACS in August here. However, I am somewhat confused. I have not yet gone for an interview. My understanding was that you do not go to ACS until you have done sufficiently well both on your interview AND your CFAT before you are flown to Tranton. Anyways, I'm excited, but a little bit apprehensive about whether or not they have made a mistake by wanting to send me this early in the process.


When I went through it, there were some people in my group for whom the ASC was the last step in the process, and others for whom it was the first step (i.e. they had not had an interview, initial medical screening, etc.) so the order and timelines seem to vary base on availability. People who passed the test for pilot but had not done the initial medical screening did not go to Toronto to do the full pilot medical; they had to go back to do their screening with their home recruiting centre and then come back to Toronto at a later date for the full medical.


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## JDW (27 Jul 2016)

I went to Trenton in early July and it was explained to me that the aircrew process has recently changed. Since I was still with the old process, I had already gone through all the steps before ASC, but several people in my group had not. Another thing that changed is the Toronto medical: successful pilot candidates are no longer sent directly to Toronto from Trenton, it is done at a separate time. My Toronto medical took place 3 weeks after Trenton. Now I am awaiting to be Merit Listed and hopefully selected for CEOTP.

BTW, be well prepared for ASC! In my group of 15 candidates, only 2 of us passed for pilot.

Good luck!


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## Deleted member 102242 (4 Aug 2016)

Thanks Posthumand and JDW,

That clarifies things a bit for me. I'm doing my best to prepare. Even though I'm skeptical of the 'science' behind them, I've played lumosity games until I got about the 90th percentile for each category of games as well as an average score putting me in the 97th percentile. I'm not sure if the time spent on that did anything, but I am hopeful. Some of my strongest games were the quick and simple speed arithmetic ones, which I've heard is good for the ACS. 

Next, I'm going to do SDT calculations all weekend. From all I've read, this seems like the only concrete steps you can take. Do you have any other tips? What did you do to prepare JDW?

Thanks!


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## JDW (5 Aug 2016)

FA22raptero, I prepared pretty much the same way and I ranked very similarly to you in Luminosity. Not sure how much it helped either, but it can't hurt, right? I also did TONS of speed/distance calcs and basic math as well. 

My only other thought on ASC preparation: be well rested and poised. The 2 days of tests are exhausting and most in my group (include me) had no idea if we were doing well or failing. Don't panic. Keep reminding yourself that you are as well prepared as possible. 

Best of luck! Let us know how you did.


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## Deleted member 102242 (5 Aug 2016)

Thanks JDW,

It feels good being knowing I'm following some of the steps of a successful candidate. 

I'm gonna back away from the lumosity games for a bit and start doing more math. My job is taking me into the far north next week and we'll be working 16+ hour days all next week. I'm back Friday, and am flying Saturday (supposedly, although they still haven't sent me the tickets.... we're almost only a week away and they said it should be by two weeks). It's gonna be tough to be well rested, but I'm gonna bring a lot of z-quil and use the two days at base to rest up super well. 

I'll let you know how I did.


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## Silje (20 Aug 2016)

Heading out to Trenton tomorrow for my ACS


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## JDW (22 Aug 2016)

Good luck, Silje!

FA22raptero, how did you do at Aircrew Selection?


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## Silje (30 Aug 2016)

JDW said:
			
		

> Good luck, Silje!
> 
> FA22raptero, how did you do at Aircrew Selection?



Thank you  

I passed for my trade. The best one can do is to be well rested, this would be my advice. Best of luck to all!


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## EternalPharoah (31 Aug 2016)

Thanks for all the great information peeps!  Last year I was told my eyes weren't good enough to apply for pilot so I got laser surgery and had to wait 6 months before getting re-tested.  Just got all that done and now have my dates for ASC.  Well, the date blocks anyway.  Still waiting on confirmation which block I'll be going into.  Sep 12 - 14, 14 - 16 or 19 - 21.

Two weeks of strong prep work ahead.


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## Keepsprayin (3 Sep 2016)

You basically went down my route EternalPharaoh!

Said I would update this if I got an offer. I got the call yesterday for October 24th BMOQ! Hope to see some of you there


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## ssrb653 (13 Sep 2016)

Hey Everyone! Let me introduce myself first. I had signed up for this website awhile ago and was reading the blogs even before that. I applied to join the Forces Back in February 2016. I have already taken my CFAT and passed for my occupation Pilot. My interview is coming up on September 15th. However, I was told that this interview is a requirement before they can send my file for security screening to Ottawa. I was just wondering if one could be called for aircrew selection before the security screening from Ottawa comes back? I have a feeling my file is going to drag on because I have not lived in Canada for the past 10 years. 
If someone here has had experience with security screening I would appreciate their input.


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## EternalPharoah (16 Sep 2016)

ssrb653, I don't know anything about the security situation but I did meet a few people at ASC testing that hadn't had their medicals done yet.  That surprised me because the Forces are paying for people to fly in to do ASC for Pilots while they're clearly wearing glasses and most likely would not pass the vision requirements.  Talking to them, even they were slightly surprised they got the call for ASC before their medical or interview.

I wanted to mention that because it doesn't look like ASC has anything to do with how your file is progressing at the recruiting center / Ottawa.  Hope that helps.


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## Deleted member 102242 (17 Sep 2016)

JDW said:
			
		

> Good luck, Silje!
> 
> FA22raptero, how did you do at Aircrew Selection?



JDW,

I was convinced, CONVINCED, that I'd failed, but I actually passed and with a decent score. 

I was extatic. Thanks for asking 

For anyone going, the best advice I can give is:

1. Be really, really well rested. I used zzzquil (I came from the West Coast). Go for a run or something and get your brain going in the AM. The C-130's on base look amazing at dawn. [nobody wants to do the test on 3 hours of sleep]

2. The only thing that you will ever walk away from and go "wow I should have prepared better for that" is mental math. Get really, really fast at not just Speed Distance Time, but all sorts of math problem solving. Speed and accuracy. 

3. I spend a lot of my time operating a skid steer and other joystick based heavy equipment (hoes, loaders etc.) at my job. These machines often bounce around as you move, but you also have to be really precise with your controls to get the job done well. I honestly felt that for the joystick portions of the test, that this was very very helpful. I think practicing something like this wouldn't be bad. 

Good luck everyone!


----------



## blackice (19 Sep 2016)

~   Congratulations to everyone that passed ACS! I wrote my CFAT at the end of July 2016 - assuming I've got quite the wait ahead of me so I've been going through these forums to prepare as much as possible before the next steps. 

FA22Raptero: would you say a book such as "RAF Officer Aircrew Selection Centre OASC: How to become an RAF Officer" would be helpful to have a look at ? Throughout my research it seems like the new ACS (CFAST) is based on its British counterpart. 

RE: Mental math, is it just basic BEDMAS, or are there derivatives, square roots, etc. involved.

Thank you in advance for any guidance.


----------



## Dire Markhour (19 Sep 2016)

blackice said:
			
		

> RE: Mental math, is it just basic BEDMAS, or are there derivatives, square roots, etc. involved.



the book won't hurt its always good to have a variety of problems to solve, plus the instrument/ spatial puzzles you will likely only find there

basic BEDMAS

use: http://www.speeddistancetime.info/

have a speed math app to practice on the go (I used math workout)

key is speed not complexity


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## Good2Golf (20 Sep 2016)

Don't be afraid to 'move on' to the next question if/when the situation arises, so as to keep momentum.  Life includes a couple if wrong answers now and then.  Remember, some of the metrics include performing under stress, and sometimes "that's close enough!" and moving on is a valid COA. 

Cheers
G2G


----------



## blackice (20 Sep 2016)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Don't be afraid to 'move on' to the next question if/when the situation arises, so as to keep momentum.



Used that same strategy during the CFAT  



			
				Dire Markhor said:
			
		

> have a speed math app to practice on the go (I used math workout)
> 
> key is speed not complexity



I will have a look at Math Workout, have been using "Mental Math" - 

Thank you both!


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## ssrb653 (21 Sep 2016)

Hello All
Thanks for your reply Eternal Pharaoh. Apparently they asked me to give them dates for ACS and I have picked three dates in November. Hopefully I find out my date soon. I will be practicing a lot of mental math till then. As for multiplications I am thinking about memorizing multiplication tables from 1-20. Hoping that should be enough. Also practicing speed distance and fuel from the website mentioned earlier. I am really pumped for this but at the same time really anxious if I will pass. I will just go in with a positive attitude and hope for the best. 

Mental math workouts till November for me!


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## bscriber (22 Sep 2016)

I was out for my morning run on the south side of CFB Trenton and watched the latest batch of ACS candidates enter for training.  Good luck everyone who is testing today/tomorrow


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## Titicboom (26 Oct 2016)

Greetings,

I have read all the posts and just have one lingering question.

For someone who is just applying for AEC, do they do the whole battery of tests on both days or just a sub section of the tests. 
For instance do they have to know how to do the Fuel/distance/time calculations and the like?

Thanks to all the people that have shared experiences.

Cheers.


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## sidemount (26 Oct 2016)

You do the whole battery of tests

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


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## gronkpatriot (2 Nov 2016)

Hello all,

I'm currently scheduled to write my test for ACSO in novemember. I've extensively studied my time/distance/speed and fuel consumption arethmatic; however, I've noticed that on the Canadian forces aircrew selection testing candidate guide in the example given for the airborne numerical test there seems to be a parcel weight that needs to be taken into consideration. My question is, should I consider looking into how weight effects time/speed/distance or is simply knowing the formulas and being competent with them enough. Thank you for your time.


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## ssrb653 (3 Nov 2016)

Hey gronkpatriot what date in November are you going? I am going for November 16-17. How well have you been doing on your speed and distance and fuel consumption questions? I have been about 20s for the earlier and 30-45s for later. 
Anyway I don't think the weight of the object would be effecting the speed otherwise I think the questions might be too complicated to do in your head. I am just guessing this. Someone who has taken the test already would know better


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## Daishi (7 Nov 2016)

Hey all,

I just got my dates to select for ACS.

I am quite nervous about the math part as I am not that strong, but I have been practicing with the website provided. I am still not nailing the numbers 100% (aka the awnser will be 18 minutes and I thought 20, or thought 30 mph and the answer was 28).

How bad does it hurt you if your answers are all just estimates and not bang on? Like....

At 35 mph, how far do you travel in 8 hours and 24 mins? I guessed it at 290 and the answer is 294

Does anyone have any tips or tricks to the formulas or most importantly working with MINUTES rather then hours?

Ive also been told, that the math tests (time/speed/distance) are for airtraffic control and the other trade I cant think of the name at the moment. They dont count negatively toward the pilot trade if you bungle them. This was coming from someone that took the ACS a few months ago.


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## ssrb653 (9 Nov 2016)

Hey Daishi

When are you going for you ACS. I am not sure how it is graded but you need to work accurately for as far as I know. The question to mention did you get it on this website http://www.speeddistancetime.info/


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## Posthumane (9 Nov 2016)

Daishi said:
			
		

> Hey all,
> 
> I just got my dates to select for ACS.
> 
> ...



There are several components on ASC which require mental math skills, some of which require precise answers and some are more focused on speed of calculation and being able to estimate answers is important. However, you should strive to get both faster and more precise with your practice.

Try to break down the calculations into more manageable chuncks. In the example you gave, 8 hours and 24 minutes equates to 8.4 hours, so all you have to do is 8.4 x 35. You can break that down even further: 8 x 35 = 280, 4 x 35 = 140, 0.4 x 35 = 14 and you can add together 280 and 14 to get 294. Remember fractions of 60 to convert between minutes and hours: 30 minutes is half an hour, 15 minutes is a quarter of an hour, 12 mins is a fifth, 6 mins is a tenth, etc.


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## dimsum (10 Nov 2016)

Daishi said:
			
		

> Ive also been told, that the math tests (time/speed/distance) are for airtraffic control and the other trade I cant think of the name at the moment. They dont count negatively toward the pilot trade if you bungle them.



I would hazard a guess that the other trade is Air Combat Systems Officer (ACSO).  I'm surprised that applicants for Pilots won't need to do as well on the S-T-D section, since they do that during training as well.


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## Daishi (5 Dec 2016)

So it seems ACS is all messed up. I was given dates during the middle of Oct for Nov and Dec.... I choose and all of those dates have come and gone.

I spoke to my file manager and he said they just never responded.... gave me new dates to pick for January and Feb.... I wonder what the likely hood is that those dates will come and go. This whole process is ridiculous. Ive already had to do my references and background checks twice as it has taken them so long to process me through their system.


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## Mannfred (14 Dec 2016)

Good day all, 

The CT ball is finally rolling and ive been given the choice to pick my ACS dates. Now ive heard that if you choose them for a new fiscal year (e.g anything after 31 Mar 17) you stand a better chance of not competing as hard between candidates. Im wondering what their recruiting pool is this year, because in others its only been about 75 candidates.

If anyone could help me out that would be great. I've been trying to CT since June 2013 and this ACS is a no fail task.


Been using this site to brush up on my math for many moons, and definitely recommend it: http://www.speeddistancetime.info/test


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## Daishi (14 Dec 2016)

From what I hear, you are pretty much guaranteed to go to Basic if you pass ACS for the pilot trade atleast. They still have another 3-4 years of training before you get your wings with failure and drop out rates decreasing each year.


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## SJC000 (15 Dec 2016)

Daishi said:
			
		

> From what I hear, you are pretty much guaranteed to go to Basic if you pass ACS for the pilot trade atleast. They still have another 3-4 years of training before you get your wings with failure and drop out rates decreasing each year.



This is untrue for all entry plans; especially for DEO and CEOTP candidates. Shortly after ACS you will have a Pilot-specific medical examination which many people fail. Following this you're still in heavy competition against other applicants nationwide.


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## Mannfred (16 Dec 2016)

SJC000 said:
			
		

> This is untrue for all entry plans; especially for DEO and CEOTP candidates. Shortly after ACS you will have a Pilot-specific medical examination which many people fail. Following this you're still in heavy competition against other applicants nationwide.



my intent is CEOTP and ya i hear its fierce competition. With that being said i want the best edge. I sent back my response for one date in Feb and two for beginning of Apr. So we'll see what they say about that.

am i right to assume theres also an interview prior to ACS? because i heard there was.


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## Daishi (16 Dec 2016)

SJC000 said:
			
		

> This is untrue for all entry plans; especially for DEO and CEOTP candidates. Shortly after ACS you will have a Pilot-specific medical examination which many people fail. Following this you're still in heavy competition against other applicants nationwide.



The medical is included with ACS if you pass the two days of testing. You do the two days then if you pass you get sent for the further medical. If you pass that then you have passed ACS. From what I have been told, if you manage to pass the entire package, including the medical, you have a highly likely chance of getting the call for basic, ESPECIALLY for the piloting trade. There is a MASSIVE amount of spots for pilots, and it grows every year as there have been large amounts of people retiring, and not enough people getting through the door fast enough. Tons of people applying, but they cant process and get people through the system quick enough....and then all those people that do that fail.... leads to a gulch in open positions. Last time I checked there were 75 positions....for this fiscal year. At the beginning I was told 43.

Just pass ACS and don't stress out. I have yet again been told that the T/S/D calculations have no bearing on pilots, yes you still have to do the testing... but if you fail that part its not part of the pilot testing for ACS. You will be taking it during your training, so it is always good to know tho.


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## Mannfred (16 Dec 2016)

Daishi said:
			
		

> The medical is included with ACS if you pass the two days of testing. You do the two days then if you pass you get sent for the further medical. If you pass that then you have passed ACS. From what I have been told, if you manage to pass the entire package, including the medical, you have a highly likely chance of getting the call for basic, ESPECIALLY for the piloting trade. There is a MASSIVE amount of spots for pilots, and it grows every year as there have been large amounts of people retiring, and not enough people getting through the door fast enough. Tons of people applying, but they cant process and get people through the system quick enough....and then all those people that do that fail.... leads to a gulch in open positions. Last time I checked there were 75 positions....for this fiscal year. At the beginning I was told 43.
> 
> Just pass ACS and don't stress out. I have yet again been told that the T/S/D calculations have no bearing on pilots, yes you still have to do the testing... but if you fail that part its not part of the pilot testing for ACS. You will be taking it during your training, so it is always good to know tho.



Ill take all that into mind. I knew there was a more extensive medical after the two days of testing (measuring the reach of your arms, height, and other shenanigans). still I am bombarding myself with fuel consumption calculations and all mental math, no pen, no paper, no calculator.

from my buddies who have successfully CT'd to pilot, they have provided me with a ton of helpful hints. If i make it through ill be sure to let pass on what i can, pay it forward so to speak.

Thanks again for all help again guys, ive been following this thread for awhile


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## blackice (17 Dec 2016)

~ Could you possibly share some of the hints prior to going ?  :christmas happy: ( I have read the thread, I'm just curious as to what you were told first hand by guys who have been through it, confidentiality in mind of course )

I have probably done hundreds of http://speeddistancetime.info questions by now because I have had to clear my autocomplete because it was filling in the wrong answers in the boxes haha!

Thank you for any advice!


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## RyanHealy29 (18 Dec 2016)

Mannfred said:
			
		

> Ill take all that into mind. I knew there was a more extensive medical after the two days of testing (measuring the reach of your arms, height, and other shenanigans). still I am bombarding myself with fuel consumption calculations and all mental math, no pen, no paper, no calculator.
> 
> from my buddies who have successfully CT'd to pilot, they have provided me with a ton of helpful hints. If i make it through ill be sure to let pass on what i can, pay it forward so to speak.
> 
> Thanks again for all help again guys, ive been following this thread for awhile



Be very careful with passing "hints". This thread IS monitored, as is the Reddit one. The confidentiality agreement you sign at aircrew selection is very wide in scope and non-specific. Passing on information, even that which is publicly available in the published guide, can be interpreted by the CoC at the ASC as a breach of your non-disclosure agreement, which has the potential to result in disciplinary action, and in the worst case could potentially affect your security clearance. If you pass ASC, get in, and then muck up your security clearance...that's bad. 

Just a friendly heads up. I know we all want to help each other as much as we can, but the agreement you signed is very vague and covers a LOT. Anything that the CoC interprets as potentially giving an unfair advantage to one candidate over another can be viewed as a breach, and it's just not worth it.


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## Mannfred (18 Dec 2016)

RyanHealy29 said:
			
		

> Be very careful with passing "hints". This thread IS monitored, as is the Reddit one. The confidentiality agreement you sign at aircrew selection is very wide in scope and non-specific. Passing on information, even that which is publicly available in the published guide, can be interpreted by the CoC at the ASC as a breach of your non-disclosure agreement, which has the potential to result in disciplinary action, and in the worst case could potentially affect your security clearance. If you pass ASC, get in, and then muck up your security clearance...that's bad.
> 
> Just a friendly heads up. I know we all want to help each other as much as we can, but the agreement you signed is very vague and covers a LOT. Anything that the CoC interprets as potentially giving an unfair advantage to one candidate over another can be viewed as a breach, and it's just not worth it.



That was something else I was told, when you do ACS you sign a non disclosure act. Good to know for everyone viewing this thread.


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## Loachman (18 Dec 2016)

There are twenty-four pages in this thread. It is rather unlikely that anything worthwhile can be said that has not already been said, "legally" or otherwise.

Thousands of us managed just fine in the distant past before Al Gore invented the internet. Relax, both now and during the tests themselves. Stress is not your friend.


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## blackice (1 Feb 2017)

Hello all,

I was contacted late December to select three dates for the ASC at Trenton. I selected three dates in February. I was then contacted early this week and told those dates have all been filled and to select new dates.

For anyone who can answer or has been through such rescheduling: ( I saw similar posts, but without updates )

1) is it likely that I will be attending the course on any of the new dates I've chosen ? 

2) Are the courses filled based on CFAT scores, overall qualifications, application date etc. ?

----

[ I also indicated to my recruiter, who has been very helpful and communicative, that I am flexible outside of those 3 selected dates as well, & was told that information will be passed along as well. Hopefully that will allow the course loading authority further flexibility in case my chosen dates are high demand]


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## colinreid16 (15 Feb 2017)

Hello Army.ca forum users,

I made the decision 8 months ago to join the forces, specifically the Air Force, in hopes of gaining a career, benefits and a future for myself and my girlfriend. I always have had an interest in the forces and decided this was the time for me to join. 

I had questions about the Air Crew Selection Test. Now I do know a lot of what happens at the test is confidential, so please do not divulge anything sensitive. I'm just wondering how one could begin studying for this test. What subjects relate to this (ie Physics, math etc).  Also, my brother is a commercial airline pilot and I will be using him as a tutor in terms of concepts related to his profession. How much would the subjects learnt from commercial piloting relate to this test?  

The specific trades that I met requirements for via the aptitude test are Aerospace Control Officer and Combat Systems Officer. 
Any experiences or suggestions related to those trades would also be an asset. 

I've read all of the other posts thus far regarding this subject. I'm just hoping to get answers to my specific questions. 

Thank you very much 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Loachman (15 Feb 2017)

Welcome to Army.ca, colinreid16



			
				colinreid16 said:
			
		

> I've read all of the other posts thus far regarding this subject.



Including the whole thread with which I just merged your post?



			
				colinreid16 said:
			
		

> I'm just hoping to get answers to my specific questions.



Which are? They were not answered in the preceding 24 pages?

You are an OCdt already, according to your profile, but have not yet met the requirements for the occupations deemed suitable according to your CFAT score? Were you accepted for a different occupation?


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## solarblue (3 Mar 2017)

I agree with the previous posts that being well rested and not being stressed out are key success factors. Even though the tests are aptitude based rather than knowledge based, I personally felt more comfortable doing the tests by practicing weeks beforehand. To prepare for Aircrew Selection Testing in Fall 2016 (for ACSO and AEC as my career choices), I used the following websites:

http://arithmetic.zetamac.com/
http://mrnussbaum.com/age-of-the-angles/
https://mirshahi.wikispaces.com/Angles+-+Measure+and+Estimate
http://www.speeddistancetime.info/fuel-test
http://www.purposegames.com/game/16-point-compass-rose-game
http://www.braingle.com/mind/test_numbers.php
http://www.memory-improvement-tips.com/pattern-memory.html
https://www.lumosity.com/ (free version)
http://mentchism.com/chart/100-multiplication-chart/  [table Reading Test]
http://whistleralley.com/mod/mod25.htm [table Reading Test]

When practicing using the links above, I did them on a computer with a keyboard with a number pad (instead of using a mobile device with touch screen). I figured that training my fingers to use a number pad (like the photo in this article) could improve my keystroke speed, which could make the split second difference in answering questions faster: http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/article-template-standard.page?doc=rcaf-improves-testing-for-the-right-stuff/hujqx88w

I didn't pass for the Pilot trade, but wasn't concerned since it wasn't one of my career choices. I doubt any of the links above will help to pass the Pilot tests. Simulator and flying practice may not help either; a few candidates in my group who had pilot/flying experience did not pass the Pilot tests. 

No matter what the testing outcome is, enjoy the overall experience! Good luck!


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## blackice (12 Mar 2017)

~ I just recently completed air crew selection - although having passed and met the cutoff for every cognitive area, I did not meet the overall cutoff score for Pilot which was not disclosed to me. I will be repeating it in 12 months. I just wanted to leave a very important tip which I believe may have cost me a passing score. 

========
The custom keyboard is designed for left & right handed individuals - since some tests require a joystick, your dominant hand may be busy flying, practice typing quickly with your weaker hand, split seconds matter. Practice doing quick data entry with a number pad accurately and quickly - some tests go by quicker than you'd think. Do not get tunnel vision, learn to scan your screen as some tests require shifting your attention around the screen to gather or react to data.

The study guide has great explanations for the different tests - however, note that the actual tests are slightly harder & increase in difficulty. I will stress the fact that you may think your spatial reasoning skills are up to par, but you will be sadly surprised at how demanding the questions are in retaining information about sequences of motion.

It was an amazing experience staying on base and being around members of the CF. 

Good luck to all!


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## serifed (29 Mar 2017)

I had my aircrew selection back in August of 2016, and I remember scouring this forum for any extra information that I could to help me 'get an edge' or what I should be studying before arriving in Trenton. While I'm not going to give away any answers or specific details on the test, I'll just post a few things that I found helpful.

http://rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page 
This is the candidate guide for the selection centre. Read it. Read it again! Click on the images under Aptitude Tests and read the image descriptions. No one is trying to trick you when you go for aircrew selection, but make sure you read and comprehend all instruction given to you. Most of the tests will give you a small practice window before starting the real test so you can get a feel of the keys/controls needed. If you're female, I would recommend wearing flats or dress shoes since there are foot pedals used occasionally. Bring some spare change if you would like a coffee. The centre does have a coffee maker, and make sure you wash your mug when finished.

Check and double check that you have all required paperwork before heading to Trenton. Maybe consider bringing a spare envelope to hold your receipts so they don't get misplaced. 

http://www.speeddistancetime.info This is a handy site to brush up on your mental math. I also subscribed to Lumosity and practiced daily before aircrew selection. I felt it helped me be more mentally flexible, but of course your mileage may vary.

During testing, you won't have any idea of how you're doing until it's over. 'I'm either doing alright, or failing miserably' was common to hear during breaks. Try as hard as you can even if you think you may be doing poorly. You may be doing better than you thought. Don't give up. Remember to breathe and enjoy your time in Trenton! Some of the aptitude tests could be considered fun.

In my search for any extra information, I ran across an e-book called '_RAF Officer Aircrew Selection Centre OASC: How to become an RAF Officer (The Testing Series)_'. Don't bother with it. While the Canadian Forces did buy the testing system that the Royal Air Force uses to screen candidates, it didn't offer me any extra advice that I couldn't find elsewhere. The RAF also has a 'practical' section of testing that Canada did not implement. If you want to throw $10 in a hole like I did, there's better places to waste your money.


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## Loachman (29 Mar 2017)

Suddenly, the existing nine-year-old twenty-five-page Aircrew Selection/ACS (Merged) thread seemed lonely and unloved, so I added it onto yours.

I kept the name and location of the old thread, though, for the benefit of those already accustomed to it and who know where to look and/or how to search.

Good luck with your next steps.


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## High-PoweredXU (1 Apr 2017)

I took the ASC testing at the end of February 2017 and it was a challenging test. You will study the best you can but when you get there a lot of what you studied and techniques that you may have used to prepare will be largely thrown out the window. My worst activity was the Airborne Numerical Test (TSD). The only hint I can give you is that its format is very different from what is on the study package. It will require not only your ability to do the math in your head quickly, but to collate information to lead you to the correct answer. My best activity besides the psycho-motor tests was the Target Recognition Test which requires your ability to multi-task and maintain situational awareness.

The test really is not all that stressful as some have told me or some have mentioned on this thread. Its just very difficult due to time constraints and the importance of speed and accuracy play a role. I went in there determined and had fun with the test, because some of the activities were actually pretty cool. The way to help keep my cool was to blow off some steam at the gym each day before the testing to calm the nerves. 

Study your TSD, mental math, even work on activities that require multi-tasking, practice your memory. Luminosity will help in some areas like the digit recall test, target recognition test, some spatial tests, but do not rely heavily on it. And for System Logic Test, I suggest you up your reading comprehension skills. For the situational awareness test, practice recalling details of particular movements around you. This particular activity will kick you in the butt.

For Pilot, it not solely based on psycho-motor skills as I thought it was. The Captain there told me that because of the advanced systems on the today's aircraft, future Pilots need to perform beyond that of hand-eye-foot coordination and perform in the cognitive dimensions (ability to work 3D Space and manage the a/c systems, read maps all while flying). So in addition your numerical skills is actually quite important. In fact every aspect of this ASC is very important to successfully getting Pilot, not just few parts. So study holistically, but efficiently so you can be effective on the ASC. 

At the end, I learned a lot about myself; what I can do and what I need to improve on. 

Go there with a great attitude, talk to the people who are in on the experience with you. And when you get the short intro to AEC, ACSO, PILOT ask questions so you are fully aware of the possible positions that may be your future.

Good luck and if you have any questions feel free to PM me.


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## Roger123 (17 Apr 2017)

I successfully completed Air Crew Selection during the end of February. The testing was challenging but it was a great experience overall. 

I seem to be a little confused with regards to the Anthropometric/Medical Testing that I assumed would take place following the computer based testing in Trenton. Following the cognitive testing, I had various measurements completed to determine my suitability to fit in different air frames. Thankfully there were no issues in this regard. I then made my way back home.

I completed my interview and medical tests when I got back. The medical tests were sent to Ottawa and I am still waiting on a response. During my interview I brought up this issue but was not given a definitive answer. I was told that when my interviewer went through his application process and subsequent aircrew selection, it was under CAPSS and that measurements/ medical testing was completed in Toronto following successful completion of testing in Trenton. 

There seems to be a change with the introduction of the computer based testing and Anthro is now done in Trenton. My question is whether I will still need to see a flight surgeon in Toronto or if the medical testing completed via the recruiting centre/doctor/optometrist comprises the entirety of the medical requirement for the pilot application. Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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## AlwaysWaiting (17 Apr 2017)

As an add on the question above, for AEC, while in Trenton I was told I didn't have to undergo testing at the Toronto medical center. Since then I've had my medical (recruitment center/eyes/blood test & air crew ECG) in since November 14 and the recruitment center has said my file is awaiting an air crew designation at Toronto since December 2nd. Like the above is there anything further that I'm awaiting that I'm not aware of, or is this just bad luck with the wait time.


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## iamrah (18 Apr 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> My question is whether I will still need to see a flight surgeon in Toronto or if the medical testing completed via the recruiting centre/doctor/optometrist comprises the entirety of the medical requirement for the pilot application. Any input would be greatly appreciated.



Yes, if you are applying to the pilot trade, you still need to go to Toronto to see the flight surgeon. I passed ACS back in December and did the Toronto medical last week. 



			
				AlwaysWaiting said:
			
		

> As an add on the question above, for AEC, while in Trenton I was told I didn't have to undergo testing at the Toronto medical center. Since then I've had my medical (recruitment center/eyes/blood test & air crew ECG) in since November 14 and the recruitment center has said my file is awaiting an air crew designation at Toronto since December 2nd. Like the above is there anything further that I'm awaiting that I'm not aware of, or is this just bad luck with the wait time.



Unless you also have pilot in your application, for AEC, my understanding is you don't need to go to Toronto for medical. I think you are just waiting for a decision from Ottawa.


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## Roger123 (18 Apr 2017)

iamrah said:
			
		

> Yes, if you are applying to the pilot trade, you still need to go to Toronto to see the flight surgeon. I passed ACS back in December and did the Toronto medical last week.



Thanks for clearing that up. If you wouldn't mind elaborating, what type of medical testing/ testing in general are they doing that is not covered in the medical portion/ anthro measurements? Did you receive an air factor once you finished with the testing?

I'm assuming that the medical test in Toronto was the last step in your application. Were you given an indication of when you might get an offer?

I apologize for the bombardment of questions. I assumed that success at ACS would translate to a speedy turn around to an offer and commencement of BMOQ. The wait and uncertainty is eating me up.


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## montoya (18 Apr 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> a speedy turn around to an offer.



This is DND - "speedy turn around" is an impossibility = hurry up and wait!


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## Loachman (18 Apr 2017)

No. It is the Canadian Armed Forces.


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## Roger123 (18 Apr 2017)

Thanks for the input guys and giving me a more realistic ( longer than I thought) expectation. Going to continue studying, working out and working to combat the uncertainty/waiting that is the application process.


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## iamrah (18 Apr 2017)

See my response below, I hope that helps.



			
				Roger123 said:
			
		

> Thanks for clearing that up. If you wouldn't mind elaborating, what type of medical testing/ testing in general are they doing that is not covered in the medical portion/ anthro measurements?
> 
> It was very similar to what I had done in the medical, the only new thing was you actually spoke to a doctor and he/she will ask you about your medical history. They also ask you to elaborate on some stuff, for example, I had to explain how I dislocated my shoulder
> 
> ...


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## High-PoweredXU (2 May 2017)

Has anyone who took the ASC Test in Feb27 - 28/2017 received any offers yet for pilot, acso, aec? I'm waiting to hear whether or not for AEC.


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## Roger123 (3 May 2017)

I completed ASC testing successfully a week prior ( Feb 23-24) for PLT, AEC and ACSO. My application to AEC and ACSO is complete but am waiting on the aircrew medical for PLT. I believe once that is complete I will be merit listed ( put on the competition list ? Used merit list terminology when doing my interview and the interviewer corrected me by saying the competition list) to all three trades. 

In short, no. But if I was going for just AEC or ACSO I believe I would have already been on the list. I believe selections are held every 2 weeks. Are you currently on the list for selection?

BTW, while at ACS and before commencement of testing, my group was told ( by the selection officer) for DEO applicants that the results and score on the test was largely used in the selection and ranking of applicants. In other words, meeting the cutoff for a trade does not translate to an automatic offer due to open slots and ranking. I believe for ROTP applicants, prior academic history has a large bearing in addition to ACS. I then hear rumblings that when listed for selection, only the fact that you passed ACS is noted and not used to rank people. I would appreciate any input in this regard.


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## jollibee (5 May 2017)

Did my Aircrew Selection Course (ASC) testing in April - have not heard anything nor received the reimbursement to date (for taxi, food per diem, etc.). Passed for AEC.

During the ASC briefing, it was mentioned that results are a combination of the ASC test, and CFAT and interview (makes sense though!) on a top-down basis.

When I went to my CFRC to submit paperwork from the Trenton trip, I asked and I was told that BMOQ for successful applicants would be in the Fall - so I am guessing interview, medical, offers, unsuccessful notifications, etc. could take place anytime between now and fall.

Just putting this out there for people wondering about timelines. If you have better or updated information though, feel free to share!

Cheers.


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## Y pinetree (6 May 2017)

High-PoweredXU said:
			
		

> Has anyone who took the ASC Test in Feb27 - 28/2017 received any offers yet for pilot, acso, aec? I'm waiting to hear whether or not for AEC.



I took ASC test in early March, successfully passed for AEC and ACSO but I only applied for AEC though. And I've been put on the competition list just a couple days before the selection (April 19th) but I am still waiting very patiently to hear back for the offer.


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## Roger123 (6 May 2017)

With respect to your potential offer PineTree, be sure to check your spam folder. Ive heard a fair number of stories of offers being sent directly to spam.


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## colinreid16 (17 May 2017)

I also did ACS during the month of April (mid) and have been patiently waiting to hear back. J called my recruitment centre (Ottawa) and was told that I may not get a chance for an interview until July/August as they are short staffed and need to push through RMC applicants. 

It is hard because I am very eager to start and in actuality I'm open to anything in the Forces (but would prefer Air Force). Just thought I'd update others on what I was told. I hope it helps and I hope we all hear back for our respective positions soon. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## serifed (18 May 2017)

To those who have completed ACS and are wondering when you may receive an offer. You may be waiting longer than you expect to. I completed ACS towards the end of August 2016, and didn't receive my offer until the last week of April 2017 (interview/medical completed in late October 2016). I don't think that any of the three trades have any sort of 'fastpass' to the front of the line. Check out the Application Process Samples thread and see if you can find anyone in your trade of choice who has recently updated for an idea on when you'll receive your offer.


----------



## High-PoweredXU (28 May 2017)

serifed said:
			
		

> To those who have completed ACS and are wondering when you may receive an offer. You may be waiting longer than you expect to. I completed ACS towards the end of August 2016, and didn't receive my offer until the last week of April 2017 (interview/medical completed in late October 2016). I don't think that any of the three trades have any sort of 'fastpass' to the front of the line. Check out the Application Process Samples thread and see if you can find anyone in your trade of choice who has recently updated for an idea on when you'll receive your offer.



I'm going through the Special Commissioning Plan since I am already in the military. My guess is that the timeframe for me may be different than for those going through the DEO program. I was suppose to hear back end of May to ending of July. Only time will tell. So I'll see what happens.


----------



## High-PoweredXU (28 May 2017)

Y pinetree said:
			
		

> I took ASC test in early March, successfully passed for AEC and ACSO but I only applied for AEC though. And I've been put on the competition list just a couple days before the selection (April 19th) but I am still waiting very patiently to hear back for the offer.



A lot of us are still waiting from what I understand. I was told I'll find out either June or July. The suspense though.


----------



## colinreid16 (29 May 2017)

You know it has been tough personally. I'm in a job that I'm less than happy being in and I've really been chomping at the bit to get into AEC. But there are things I'm extremely grateful for like my girlfriend who I am making this journey in life with, the gym, my friends and family. 

It has been tough and I'm sure there are many other who are like me checking emails everyday and are eager to start their new life. I don't want to speak on any one type of faith but I do believe everyone has belief. Keep that belief and keep working hard and keep staying close to your support group (family, friends). I have been working way harder after coming home from Trenton both physically and mentally. Regardless of what happens, I know I'm doing all I can right now to be ready and that is all myself and all other recruits can do. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roger123 (15 Jun 2017)

Hey Guys,

So I'm still waiting on dates for ACS pt/. 2 ( Medical Portion). Completed ACS pt 1 before March. Been going through some process samples and the wait between Trenton testing to Toronto medical seems to be about 4-5 months. Just wondering how others successful in Trenton are progressing through the application process. It's been a while since I've engaged with anyone from recruiting that it sometimes slips my mind that I have an active application with the CAF and am near the end of the process.


----------



## nearp (15 Jun 2017)

I successfully completed ACS (Pt 1) around the middle of March - did the initial medical & interview at the end of May so my results are with Ottawa right now awaiting approval to move on to Aircrew Medical (ACS Pt 2). I talked to a file manager earlier this week and they indicated that it might be 8-10 weeks before they receive my medical file back from Ottawa. They also indicated there might be further delays as Ottawa staff are in the process of moving to a new office (it's detailed in the news if you want more info).  

I would follow up with your file manager at your CFRC to see if they received approval yet or for a status update. My experience has been that File Managers are very helpful - and will give you a straight up answer with realistic timelines.


----------



## RaineSpencer (27 Jun 2017)

I have a quick question regarding Aircrew Selection. I'm heading to Trenton from Western Canada for the July 10th-11th course. I have seen people referring to ASC Phase I (testing) and Phase II (medical evaluation) as being separate and thus requiring two trips. I was under the impression that those who pass the ASC testing go directly to the DRDC for a final day of anthropometrics, etc. Could someone who has been clear this up for me? My apologies if this has been covered before, I searched and didn't find anything.

Thanks.


----------



## iamrah (27 Jun 2017)

RaineSpencer said:
			
		

> I have a quick question regarding Aircrew Selection. I'm heading to Trenton from Western Canada for the July 10th-11th course. I have seen people referring to ASC Phase I (testing) and Phase II (medical evaluation) as being separate and thus requiring two trips. I was under the impression that those who pass the ASC testing go directly to the DRDC for a final day of anthropometrics, etc. Could someone who has been clear this up for me? My apologies if this has been covered before, I searched and didn't find anything.
> 
> Thanks.



From my experience, they are two separate trips. My file manager will contacted me to book my Phase II a few weeks after passing Phase I.

Cheers,


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## jollibee (28 Jun 2017)

From experience, you'll have the opportunity to be measured (anthropometric) in Trenton (for PLT as I understand). After Trenton, if you are successful, they will book you in for interview and medical. At the CFRC in my region they are not able to assign you an air factor so I had to book my own medical part 2 to be sent to Ottawa.

This information is just for reference to give you an idea. Your best bet would be to contact your CFRC for how your application will move along.

Cheers,


----------



## Roger123 (3 Jul 2017)

jollibee said:
			
		

> . After Trenton, if you are successful, they will book you in for interview and medical. At the CFRC in my region they are not able to assign you an air factor so I had to book my own medical part 2 to be sent to Ottawa.



What do you mean you had to book your own medical? I was under the impression that as your file progresses  along, your file manager/ CFRC will give you dates for ACS pt 2 medical and you pick a date. The results are then forwarded to Ottawa from Toronto and an air factor is assigned. 
Note: Waiting to be booked for ACSpt2 so clarification would be appreciated.


----------



## andychun1216 (3 Jul 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> What do you mean you had to book your own medical? I was under the impression that as your file progresses  along, your file manager/ CFRC will give you dates for ACS pt 2 medical and you pick a date. The results are then forwarded to Ottawa from Toronto and an air factor is assigned.
> Note: Waiting to be booked for ACSpt2 so clarification would be appreciated.


Your file manager will give you dates to choose and you choose a date you can attend, then they will book you a flight to Toronto for medical (ACS Pt 2).
I'm going to Toronto next week for ACS pt 2.


----------



## jollibee (4 Jul 2017)

I am just relaying my experience. I had my interview and medical at my nearest CFRC. I never got booked a flight to Toronto and had to talk to my family doctor and find my own eye doctor. I had them fill out separate forms, which I forwarded to the med tech who did my medical.

Good luck on your appointments!

Cheers,


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## Roger123 (4 Jul 2017)

jollibee said:
			
		

> I had my interview and medical at my nearest CFRC. I never got booked a flight to Toronto and had to talk to my family doctor and find my own eye doctor. I had them fill out separate forms, which I forwarded to the med tech who did my medical.



Hey Jollibee, I think you are talking about the 'regular' medical that is part of the application process for all prospective CF members. I believe the ACS medical is for pilot applicants that are successful at ACS and want to pursue a pilot application. Are you applying for pilot btw?



			
				andychun1216 said:
			
		

> Your file manager will give you dates to choose and you choose a date you can attend, then they will book you a flight to Toronto for medical (ACS Pt 2).
> I'm going to Toronto next week for ACS pt 2.



Sounds great Andy and good luck. When did you complete your assessment in Trenton?


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## jollibee (4 Jul 2017)

AEC. This thread is difficult to keep track of - combining PLT, AEC, and ACSO. But yes, I did book my own doctors to do my medical screening and visual acuity for my AEC application.

Good luck!


----------



## andychun1216 (4 Jul 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Sounds great Andy and good luck. When did you complete your assessment in Trenton?


Thanks! I completed my ACS in Trenton in early February, then I completed my interview and medical mid May!


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (6 Jul 2017)

jollibee said:
			
		

> AEC. This thread is difficult to keep track of - combining PLT, AEC, and ACSO. But yes, I did book my own doctors to do my medical screening and visual acuity for my AEC application.
> 
> Good luck!



AF 1 is only for Pilots, you wouldn't have had to go through the Toronto medical.


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## Roger123 (8 Jul 2017)

When attending ACS2, is business-casual dress wear with a change of gym wear the expected dress standard?


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Jul 2017)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> AF 1 is only for Pilots, you wouldn't have had to go through the Toronto medical.



Yup;  ACSO is AF2, AEC is AF4.  For future ref/follow-on readers...Para 10 of the ref below.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/cf-medical-category-system.page


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## SJC000 (18 Jul 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> When attending ACS2, is business-casual dress wear with a change of gym wear the expected dress standard?



Yes. Change of gym wear is probably unnecessary, but a good idea.


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## nic32 (20 Aug 2017)

Hi!

I'm heading to Trenton on September 24th! Anyone else?

I passed the CAPSS back in January 2012 while I was applying for a ROTP position. I need to redo the test because it expires after five years.

I've somewhat already did the new computerized test because even if I've done the old test, we also did the new one(probably to compare both results). I do not know if I did good at it.

I'm a DEO applicant, I will graduate with a degree in Computer Science in December!

Nick


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## former00368 (13 Sep 2017)

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but why are people supposedly waiting months before Aircrew Medical pt II? I had my BPSO interview done in Nov 16, Aircrew Pt I in December, ACS in Trenton Jan 31st and was sent to Aircrew Pt II immediately after that, spent the night in a hotel in Toronto and Aircrew Pt II the next more at DRDC. Was supposed to get an offer in July, ended up getting an offer in August and a COS date for 19 Sep. 

It can take a while to get an offer, but my situation was compounded by the fact that the person doing it went on summer block leave as well.


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## nic32 (27 Sep 2017)

Hi!

Good news! I passed all three occupations. Last time, I failed for AEC. I think that the new test was way more challenging than the old CAPSS except for the last part of the CAPSS.

If you have any questions not related to the test itself (because we can't talk about it) but more related to the accomodations, etc, don't hesitate to PM me. By the way, I'm French so you can ask your question in French no problem 

To anybody else that will do the aircrew selection, be prepared mentally and well rested. Give all you got. It's a really good experience overall and you will meet some great people!

Nick


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## Roger123 (27 Sep 2017)

Congratulations on passing ACS for all three occupations nic! Just curious if you know how many people were on your course and the amount that passed. Curious to see if the pass rate of about 30 percent is consistent. Also, were you briefed on your test competitiveness across the three occupations?


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## nic32 (27 Sep 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Congratulations on passing ACS for all three occupations nic! Just curious if you know how many people were on your course and the amount that passed. Curious to see if the pass rate of about 30 percent is consistent. Also, were you briefed on your test competitiveness across the three occupations?



Hi!

6-7 (I'm not sure about a guy but other said that he didn't make it) out of 18 for pilot! Some got their choice for ASCO or AEC, some got none.
In that 6-7, one was applying for RMC and the five others are DEO.

She said to me that I got a good grade, I had three section where my mark were really good. I did not ask for more because there is so much things that make you competitive or not. CFAT, interview (I include all your resume in that, grades, etc.). I'm not sure if you score at aircrew selection is considered but I would say yes. More, it depends on who is on the merit list with you 

I'm now waiting for Pt II, and now I focus on passing my last 2 courses that I have this semester to get my degree!

Nick


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## nic32 (29 Sep 2017)

nic32 said:
			
		

> Hi!
> 
> I'm heading to Trenton on September 24th! Anyone else?
> 
> ...



Just to correct myself, the computerized test that I did back then was only a part of the new one. Like other said, it was for AEC and a couple of part for pilot.


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## Cazoodle (3 Oct 2017)

I have recently been sent dates to do the ACS at Trenton, but am a bit lost as to why. 

I had applied to intelligence and pilot and due to the low number of slots available for intelligence was denied i,. I was however cleared for pilot. The catch is I never did the initial medical or interview for either position. When I went into the centre, I was told that I was going to be skipping those stages and heading into ACS. The reason being that should I fail ACS I wouldn't need a medical, and should I pass then I would have to do one anyway. I'm a bit confused though as I have skipped the interview, and as far as I know if I pass ACS and the Air factor medical, I am merit listed. I was told I scored very high on the CFAT but I can't imagine it would allow me to skip the interview.  

TLDR; I'm curious to know if i will have to do an interview if I pass ACS and the Air factor medical, or if I have somehow skipped over it.


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## Roger123 (3 Oct 2017)

Cazoodle said:
			
		

> I have recently been sent dates to do the ACS at Trenton, but am a bit lost as to why.
> 
> I had applied to intelligence and pilot and due to the low number of slots available for intelligence was denied i,. I was however cleared for pilot. The catch is I never did the initial medical or interview for either position. When I went into the centre, I was told that I was going to be skipping those stages and heading into ACS. The reason being that should I fail ACS I wouldn't need a medical, and should I pass then I would have to do one anyway. I'm a bit confused though as I have skipped the interview, and as far as I know if I pass ACS and the Air factor medical, I am merit listed. I was told I scored very high on the CFAT but I can't imagine it would allow me to skip the interview.
> 
> TLDR; I'm curious to know if i will have to do an interview if I pass ACS and the Air factor medical, or if I have somehow skipped over it.



     If successful at ACS, you will still have to undergo all the other steps, including standard medical, interview and pilot medical. Also, if successful at ACS for pilot, you will be subsequently measured ( height, seated height and some other body measurements) and weighed to determine your ability to 'fit' in different airframes. I completed ACS and had my interview and medicals afterwards. In addition, my security and credited checks were completed prior to my interview. My interview was sandwiched, time wise, between ACS tests in Trenton and the ACS Pilot Medical in Toronto. Once all required steps are completed, in whatever order that may be, is your completed application sent to CFRG for selection purposes and your file manger will inform you ( had to ask in my case) that you are on the competition/ merit list. Hope this clears things up a bit. Good luck.

By the way, do you have any insight as to why so little intelligence officer slots are open to prospective forces members. While not having applied to INT Officer myself, it seems to be a reoccurring theme for quite some time now.


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Oct 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> By the way, do you have any insight as to why so little intelligence officer slots are open to prospective forces members. While not having applied to INT Officer myself, it seems to be a reoccurring theme for quite some time now.



I am not at work and can't check the intake numbers from "off the street" vice "internal from occupation/classification transfers" but not long ago, the Int Op trade was preferring to take internal applicants who had operational experience...that might be the case now for Int O as well.  Again, just a somewhat experienced guess on my part.


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## Cazoodle (4 Oct 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> I have been told that its due to the low turnover for the position, coupled with the policy of equality within the forces. Again this is only what has been relayed to me but, on average there are only 1-2 slots open and over hundreds of applicants. I was further told that unless I was in the top 1% for that years CFAT then I would be out of contention, even then there's no guarantees. Though as the above poster mentioned, it could also be that they have so few slots that they can choose applicants with experience in a similar field as opposed to insanely high CFAT scores. Hope that sheds some light on it.


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## Roger123 (4 Oct 2017)

Cazoodle said:
			
		

> Roger123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> > And here I though pilot was a competitive trade to get into


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## Cazoodle (5 Oct 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> And here I though pilot was a competitive trade to get into



lol damn, hope the selection board doesn't see this. 

It wasn't my fault, the forum wasn't working ;D


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (9 Oct 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> And here I though pilot was a competitive trade to get into



It is, it's just pilot has hard criteria to meet. The medical and ACS screen alot of people out. If I was a betting man, I'd say in past years about 50% of candidates that passed the medical and ACS were selected. Now I suspect it's a bit higher. 

INT O has a much easier bar to reach to qualify. Therefore you have a much bigger pool of potential candidates and thus it becomes competitive given the limited slots.


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## Roger123 (10 Oct 2017)

Pre-flight said:
			
		

> It is, it's just pilot has hard criteria to meet. The medical and ACS screen alot of people out. If I was a betting man, I'd say in past years about 50% of candidates that passed the medical and ACS were selected. Now I suspect it's a bit higher.
> 
> INT O has a much easier bar to reach to qualify. Therefore you have a much bigger pool of potential candidates and thus it becomes competitive given the limited slots.


    Yes, I was just making light of the situation. When you say that pilot selection from recent years has increased for those having passed ACS and the medical(s), is that because of the different testing used in recent times? In other words, do you think the computer based testing nowadays screens out more people because it is not just a matter of passing the hand-eye coordination portion, which in turn leads to a lower candidate pool compared to the previous CAPSS testing. Or is it due to a shortage of pilots leading to a higher selection estimate nowadays ( or combination of both?).


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## BurmaShave (10 Oct 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Yes, I was just making light of the situation. When you say that pilot selection from recent years has increased for those having passed ACS and the medical(s), is that because of the different testing used in recent times? In other words, do you think the computer based testing nowadays screens out more people because it is not just a matter of passing the hand-eye coordination portion, which in turn leads to a lower candidate pool compared to the previous CAPSS testing. Or is it due to a shortage of pilots leading to a higher selection estimate nowadays ( or combination of both?).



Basically, we crush your dreams earlier now. The pass rate for CAPSS was around 50-60%, and the pass rate on Phase I during that time period was around 50% as well.

Nowadays the pass rate for pilot on ACS is around 1/5, and the pass rate on Phase I is canonically 85% (and in my observation, closer to 95%).

More generally, 1/20 applicants who write "pilot" on the form actually get in, but Ph. I, II, and III have pass rates of 85%-95% (and many of those "fails" are recourses for airsickness, family matters, etc. who later return and pass).

The change is partially due to better selection tools, and partially due to reduced budgets. In the RAF's studies, ACS performance has been a strong predictor of pilot performance, which lets us pre-select more strongly. This in turn lets us save money by training more successful candidates, and by training them less, because they have a higher skill floor. 

Consequences of this remain to be determined. If I become a sad statistic when I reach squadron service, y'all can direct some "I told you so's" and "Back in my day's" at D Air Pers  ;D


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## Good2Golf (10 Oct 2017)

BurmaShave said:
			
		

> ...If I become a sad statistic when I reach squadron service, y'all can direct some "I told you so's" and "Back in my day's" at D Air Pers  ;D



Good luck, BurmaShave...how are you finding things so far?  Are you on Ph2 now?

Cheers
G2G


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## BurmaShave (15 Oct 2017)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Good luck, BurmaShave...how are you finding things so far?  Are you on Ph2 now?
> 
> Cheers
> G2G



I'm one of the Seneca mystery men, doing the first academic year. Phase 2 starts next summer.

Things have been great, honestly; I'm living the dream. The community and culture (my poor liver) is awesome, Phase 1 rocked, even NDHQ was more fun than not.

(Gimme ten years and I'll be a bitter cynic like everyone else)


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## SupersonicMax (15 Oct 2017)

BurmaShave said:
			
		

> (Gimme ten years and I'll be a bitter cynic like everyone else)



Don't let people or events bring you down.  Always see the positive in your day-to-day (it is difficult sometimes) and when you're flying, take a minute during a mission to realize what you are doing and how lucky you are.  This got me through without being bitter at the world so far!


----------



## Sub_Guy (15 Oct 2017)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Don't let people or events bring you down.  Always see the positive in your day-to-day (it is difficult sometimes) and when you're flying, take a minute during a mission to realize what you are doing and how lucky you are.  This got me through without being bitter at the world so far!



This.

My mood improves significantly after the wheels are retracted.   I always take time during a flight to reflect on things.   If I didn’t, I think I’d snap!


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## Good2Golf (15 Oct 2017)

BurmaShave said:
			
		

> I'm one of the Seneca mystery men, doing the first academic year. Phase 2 starts next summer.
> 
> Things have been great, honestly; I'm living the dream. The community and culture (my poor liver) is awesome, Phase 1 rocked, even NDHQ was more fun than not.
> 
> (Gimme ten years and I'll be a bitter cynic like everyone else)



NDHQ will do that to you. 

Good luck on the next phase!


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## BurmaShave (16 Oct 2017)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Don't let people or events bring you down.  Always see the positive in your day-to-day (it is difficult sometimes) and when you're flying, take a minute during a mission to realize what you are doing and how lucky you are.  This got me through without being bitter at the world so far!



I'll do that. Right now, I still can't believe I get to fly the Harvard (1250hp, bubble canopy...it's basically a WWII prop fighter), much less do IF, nav, and form with it. And that's just Ph. 2!



			
				Good2Golf said:
			
		

> NDHQ will do that to you.
> 
> Good luck on the next phase!



Thanks G2G


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (16 Oct 2017)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Don't let people or events bring you down.  Always see the positive in your day-to-day (it is difficult sometimes) and when you're flying, take a minute during a mission to realize what you are doing and how lucky you are.  This got me through without being bitter at the world so far!



I'm just happy I don't have to wear a beret and blouse my pants anymore. Everything else is just gravy!


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Oct 2017)

Pre-flight said:
			
		

> I'm just happy I don't have to wear a beret and blouse my pants anymore. Everything else is just gravy!



This was one of the best things I left behind when I got to start going to work in the flyin' jammies.  No boot bands, _and_ some jammy TD locations _and_ hotels...feck ya.


----------



## AliTheAce (28 Oct 2017)

I'm practicing for the Aircrew Selections, mainly the Distance, Speed, and Time calculations. The main issue I am having is converting the minutes to hours mentally, as they end up in decimals usually. How can I quickly divide the minutes by 60, then use them in the DST formula quickly?

Also, did anyone here use the mental math tricks from the tecmath YouTube channel, or just use the standard age-old methods?


----------



## winnipegoo7 (28 Oct 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> I'm practicing for the Aircrew Selections, mainly the Distance, Speed, and Time calculations. The main issue I am having is converting the minutes to hours mentally, as they end up in decimals usually. How can I quickly divide the minutes by 60, then use them in the DST formula quickly?



I’m no expert, but hopefully these ideas help a little.

1. I memorized these numbers below (chart)
2. I rarely divided by 60 minutes, but instead I tried to think in fractions.
3. For the examples I used 'easy' numbers to keep this simple. if you get a decimal I would round and estimate.
4. hopefully my math is correct and I haven't embarrassed myself
5. Guess and check is important for deciding what fraction to use

Minute(s)	Occurrences per hour
1	               60
2	               30
3	               20
4	               15
5	               12
6	               10
10	                 6
12	                5
15	                4
30	                2
60	                1

For the fraction system to work you are looking for a common denominator.

Simple example
Say the AC is travelling at 200mph for 90 min. How far did it go?
90 min = 1 ½ hours.  1 hour = 200 miles. 30 min = 100 miles.  200 + 100 = 300 miles in 90 min.

example 2:
AC travels at 156mph for 75 minutes. How far did it travel?
75 min = 15 minutes x 5
15 minutes happens 4 times per hour, so 
156/4= 39miles   
This means that every 15 minutes the AC travels 39 miles.
15 min happens 5 times in 75min. So 39 x 5 = distance.
To make this easier, do 40 x 5 = 200, but subtract 5 (because 40 – 39 = 1 x 5 = 5) 
and you get 195 miles.

example 3:
AC travels 250miles in 40 min. What is its speed?
Divide each by 10. 
250 miles/10 = 25 miles. 40 min / 10 = 4 min
Therefore every 4 minutes the AC travels 25 miles.
4 minutes occurs 15 per hour, so multiple 25 x 15.  
For mental math, instead of 25x15, try (25x10 = 250) + (25x5 = 125) = 375mph


** I didn't think of this. I stole  the idea from a MARS officer 
***** Edited several times because I'm bad at proof reading.


----------



## AliTheAce (29 Oct 2017)

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> I’m no expert, but hopefully these ideas help a little.
> 
> 1. I memorized these numbers below (chart)
> 2. I rarely divided by 60 minutes, but instead I tried to think in fractions.
> ...



Thanks a lot, I'll try this!

Now what if the numbers aren't easily divisible by 5?

Eg: What speed covers 255 miles in 36 mins?

or 

at 135 mph, how far do you travel in 16 mins?

or 

What speed covers 14 miles in 42 mins?

or

At 20 mph, how far do you travel in 21 mins?


Note: These are taken straight off the speed distance time website


----------



## winnipegoo7 (30 Oct 2017)

I’m assuming you want to do this in your head? If you have scrap paper it’s much easier. 

I hope I got these right. 

1.  255 mile in 36 min
Guess and check. I tried dividing both by 6. Was too hard. Then I tried by 3. 

255/3 = 85miles. 36/3 = 12 min
So 85 miles every 12 min. Multiply both by 5. 
85x5= (80x5 = 400) + (5x5=25) = 425 mph. 

2. This one is a bit tough 
135miles in 16 min. 

I would pretend it’s 136miles in 16. Then divide each by 4. 
136/2= 68. 68 /2 = 34 miles
16/4=4 min (happens 15 times per hour) so do 34x15
(34x10=340) + (34x5 = 170*) = 510mph, but we know this number is high because we used 136 miles instead of 135. So we must subtract. 1 mile/4= 0.25. 0.25 x 15 = 3.75( or do 15/4. 15/2=7.5/2=3.75)
So 510-3.75= 506.25mph


(* 34x5 = 170 which is half of 340. Dividing 340/2 is easier mentally than 34x5). ... also I pretended that 340 was 34 because I find 34/2 easier than 340/2. But maybe I’m weird. 

3. 14 miles in 42 min
Divide each by 7
2 miles every 6 min
Multiply by 10 because (6 x 10 =60 min)
2 x 10 = 20 mph

4.at 20mph for 21 min
Think this way 60mph = 1mile per min
So 20mph = 1/3 mile per min. So divide 21 min by 3 = 7 miles. 

I recommend that you make up problems and then try to find the easiest way to solve that problem through trial and error. Do that everyday for 30 min and you’ll find it easy after a couple weeks


----------



## Roger123 (30 Oct 2017)

You have to get comfortable with using numbers that dont produce a "clean" number to work with. This will require rounding, usually to the second decimal place. Practice your mental arithmetic. There are many free sites available. The problem sets featured on the TSD website for RAF officer applicants are designed to work with relatively easy number if you can simplify the fraction. IE- You travel 138 miles in 36 minutes, what is your speed? 138 ( 60/ 36)= 138 ( 5/3) = (138/3) (5) = 46 (5) = 230 mph. 

Get use to working with numbers ( in your head- no pencil and paper at ACS for the TSD section) such as 139 miles travelled in 27 min. What is speed in mph? So 139 ( 60/27) = 139 ( 20 / 9 ) = 139 ( 2.22) = 278 + 27.8 + 2.78 = 308.58 ~ 309 mph. 
Round your answer to the nearest whole number.

At ACS you are going to be nervous and tired ( It is a mentally draining test) . Instead of looking for numbers and rearranging said numbers that work "nicely" get comfortable with the route execution of the calculation.


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## AliTheAce (30 Oct 2017)

Thanks a lot everyone! I'll try those out. And yes I was trying them all mentally because reading the ACS website, you won't be allowed pen and paper for the DST calculations.


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## Roger123 (30 Oct 2017)

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> I recommend that you make up problems and then try to find the easiest way to solve that problem through trial and error. Do that everyday for 30 min and you’ll find it easy after a couple weeks


Absolutely. Practice mental arithmetic, TSD calculations and I would also recommend the SAT/ ACT portion that involves TSD. Practicing general SAT type math questions ( TSD, algebra type problem sets), in fact, are tricky and force you to really understand what is being asked. This translates well to the general math problem solving portion and the TSD portion. You can use pencil and paper for the SAT/ ACT questions since you're allotted paper and pencil for the general math problem sets at ACS.


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## AliTheAce (1 Nov 2017)

Another question, haha:


What would be the most effective method of approaching something like this?

What speed covers 21 miles in 2 hours and 20 mins?


That is the question. I know that 10.5 mph covers 21 miles in 2 hours, but how would I account for the 20 minutes in there? since there are 3 occurrences of 20 minutes in one hour. 

so basically: what speed covers 21 miles in 2.3 hours?

Or something like this:

At 5 mph, how far do you travel in 2 hours and 12 mins?	

Or:

At 52 mph, how long does it take to travel 130 miles?	

I'm mainly having trouble dividing mentally since I cannot seem to break apart the number properly, and holding all that info in my head is quite difficult. I guess I need a LOT of practice

Also, should I be using anything at all to write this or should this be completely in your head? Ie. not even typing anything onto the screen unless its your answer?


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## Roger123 (1 Nov 2017)

What would be the most effective method of approaching something like this?

Realize the fraction from the minutes. 

What speed covers 21 miles in 2 hours and 20 mins?

20 mins = 1/3 hour. Adding total time = 2(3/3) + 1/3 = 7/3 hours.
S= D/T = 21/7/3= 21 * (3/7) = (21/7)(3) = 9 mph

At 5 mph, how far do you travel in 2 hours and 12 mins?   

12 min / 60 min/h = 1/5 hr. S=D/T, D=S(T) , T= 2(5/5)+ 1/5 = 11/5, D= 5 ( 11/5) = 11 miles

At 52 mph, how long does it take to travel 130 miles? 

Divide distance by speed to get time ( ie. S= D/T, D= S(T), T= D/S ) 
130/ 52 = 2 hr + ( 130 - 2(52))/ 52)= 2 hr + (130-104)/52 = 2Hr + (26/52) = 2hr + 0.5 hr = 2.5 hrs. 

Also, should I be using anything at all to write this or should this be completely in your head? Ie. not even typing anything onto the screen unless its your answer?
As you know, there will not be any aids ( pencil and paper) for DST calculations at ACS. Having said that, using pencil and paper in the begining will aid in understanding and seeing where you are going wrong. After time, you become "efficient" in such calculations that the mental execution becomes easier ( you know what you are calculating instead of holding numbers in your head, calculating, and being unsure if the methodology employed is correct). 
Dont become discouraged, do a little everyday at least.


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## bobz72 (1 Nov 2017)

I was just sent my tentative dates for ACS. If they don't work well for me, can I ask to be pushed to the next date without it looking bad on my application? I was never given a choice of dates as it sounds some others have been given.


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## AliTheAce (1 Nov 2017)

As far as I've read, asking your date to be pushed back should not look bad on your application because the DND are required to give you a time slot that is convenient for you.


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## AliTheAce (3 Nov 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> What would be the most effective method of approaching something like this?
> 
> Realize the fraction from the minutes.
> 
> ...



So I'm a little confused by what you did for this part:

130/ 52 = 2 hr + ( 130 - 2(52))/ 52)= 2 hr

Why did you multiply 52 by 2 and subtract it from 130, to get the minutes? A little unsure on how it works. I'd appreciate if you could clarify


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## solarblue (4 Nov 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> So I'm a little confused by what you did for this part:
> 
> 130/ 52 = 2 hr + ( 130 - 2(52))/ 52)= 2 hr
> 
> Why did you multiply 52 by 2 and subtract it from 130, to get the minutes? A little unsure on how it works. I'd appreciate if you could clarify



For this question, finding a common denominator makes the most sense and is more efficient for me. Knowing your timetables up to 19 is helpful for the SDT website: 
130 miles / 52 mph  <--both can be divided by 13 
= 10 / 4
= 2.5


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## Roger123 (4 Nov 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> So I'm a little confused by what you did for this part:
> 
> 130/ 52 = 2 hr + ( 130 - 2(52))/ 52)
> 
> Why did you multiply 52 by 2 and subtract it from 130, to get the minutes? A little unsure on how it works. I'd appreciate if you could clarify



I divided 130 by 52 and you get 2 whole divisions, hence the 2 hrs. ( 130 - 2(52)) is the remainder. 130 - 2 (52). Multiplied 52 by 2 because 52 goes into 130 twice. 130 - 2 (52)= 130- 104 = 26. 26/52 = 0.5. Total time is 2hrs + 0.5 hrs = 2.5 hrs.


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## AliTheAce (6 Nov 2017)

That clears it up a bit, thanks!


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## mt.chep (6 Nov 2017)

I have been waiting since August for confirmation of my ASC dates. 
Tentative dates, I have been told via email and in person, are early December. 
I have been doing Lumosity, and Speed/Distance/Time (http://www.speeddistancetime.info/) for over a year now in preparation. 
Lumosity scores are all in the 97th+ percentile. And, my Speed/Distance/Time and Fuel Calculations are basically perfect and fast.


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## AliTheAce (8 Nov 2017)

How did you start practicing for the Speed Distance Time calculations? Did you start off by doing them on paper and then move on to doing them completely in your head? What method worked for you?

Best of luck to you!


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## Pilot-Wannabe (8 Nov 2017)

For me I started by doing them on paper and then moved on to doing them in my head as my understanding grew.  I try to picture in my head how Id work through them on paper.  Seems to be working for me.  Still need to get more efficient though, I dont always solve them in the fastest (or simplest) possible way.

Ive sent in my dates for ACS waiting to hear back about tentative booking.


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## gurks0711 (8 Nov 2017)

Goodday all!
I recently sat the ACS test but I did not qualify for pilot; I did however qualify for ACSO and AEC. The testing officer told me that If I wanted to retake the test, I wouldn't have much problem clearing it as my score wasn't far from cutoff. I think I will go for ACSO because I don't know if I can wait for 12 more months. Now, I originally applied for CEOTP but does anyone know if I have to now apply for a ROTP now?


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## dapaterson (8 Nov 2017)

I do not believe there is any intake planed for CEOTP ACSO.


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## ridsteram (23 Nov 2017)

For the successful pilot candidates who were using lumosity and timedistancespeed.info, what was your average question answer time on the time distance speed questions and what was your accuracy? Also what was your average answer time on the time distance fuel questions?


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (23 Nov 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> I divided 130 by 52 and you get 2 whole divisions, hence the 2 hrs. ( 130 - 2(52)) is the remainder. 130 - 2 (52). Multiplied 52 by 2 because 52 goes into 130 twice. 130 - 2 (52)= 130- 104 = 26. 26/52 = 0.5. Total time is 2hrs + 0.5 hrs = 2.5 hrs.



Nothing has to be perfectly exact. Virtually everything will be multiple choice or a whole number. You want to be really quick because you'll pretty much never have enough time to answer everything. So the goal is to answer as much as you can as quickly as you can. 130-104 =26. 26 is half of 52. You probably won't see stuff that is 2.47895 so if it looks close to half, assume it is half and carry on quickly. 

My biggest tip would be to memorize multiplication tables (for those of us many years removed from high school it takes practice getting it back) and memorize up 15x15 or even 20x20. 

Multitasking is important. In between practicing math questions and other cognitive things, I played StarCraft, or watched high level players. That's where you see really high level time management and multitasking skills come into effect. Especially the first 5 minutes of games where managing sequences to maximize concurrent activity will really benefit you when you are tested on things like that. Plus it's actually a nice break from simply studying all the time (don't burn yourself out, at the end of the day the test evaluates aptitude, not your existing skillset. If you aren't cut out for it, you probably won't pass, if you are, you probably will pass. The prep probably only really helps a small fraction that would otherwise be a couple of points short of passing).


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## SupersonicMax (23 Nov 2017)

A quick tip that always benefited me is that I always study with a distraction in the background (music or TV show) and try to follow along the music/TV show while studying.  It teaches the brain to share attention.


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## Loachman (23 Nov 2017)

Pre-flight said:
			
		

> In between practicing math questions and other cognitive things, I played StarCraft, or watched high level players. That's where you see really high level time management and multitasking skills come into effect. Especially the first 5 minutes of games where managing sequences to maximize concurrent activity will really benefit you when you are tested on things like that.



That actually helps? Fascinating.

I went through this long before Algore invented the Internet and nobody prepared, or knew how/what to practice (same as CFAT). We all went in blind. The tests were to determine innate aptitude rather than ability to learn/adapt/prepare. I would be interested to see the results of a study to determine how much of a difference preparation actually makes, were one to be done. I am reasonably sure that preparation helps to some degree, at least - and lack of preparation would simply be foolish. There was no second chance back then, either.

As not all applicants who attend ACS find this Site, what do they do? How do they find out about the things for which they should practise? Do recruiting centres provide guidelines to them, or are they left on their own?


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (23 Nov 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> That actually helps? Fascinating.
> 
> I went through this long before Algore invented the Internet and nobody prepared, or knew how/what to practice (same as CFAT). We all went in blind. The tests were to determine innate aptitude rather than ability to learn/adapt/prepare. I would be interested to see the results of a study to determine how much of a difference preparation actually makes, were one to be done. I am reasonably sure that preparation helps to some degree, at least - and lack of preparation would simply be foolish. There was no second chance back then, either.
> 
> As not all applicants who attend ACS find this Site, what do they do? How do they find out about the things for which they should practise? Do recruiting centres provide guidelines to them, or are they left on their own?



Honestly if they are just sitting on their hands waiting for ACS after putting in their recruiting application, maybe it's not the best job for them. From the time I started my application to the time I got to ACS I was researching, practicing, self testing and learning. Even now prior to PFT, I'm constantly reading about CF Weather, airmanship books (FTGU!), CF Flight Manuals, Aeronautical rules, aeromedical info; anything I can get my hands on. You're not told to do this (well you do get a small inadequate ACS study guide from the BPSO) but most probably come by this site by researching (it's pretty high on the Google Search list). Pre-internet? they probably hit their local library, (again, FTGU, From the Ground Up, has been around since the the mid 70s).

Maybe it helps, I'm certain a few marginal passes would probably have been fails without prep. If anything, showing up prepared gives a certain amount of confidence that allows you to not to feel taken completely by surprise by the difficult tests (ie, I showed up prepared as I could, found the tests very challanging but figured if I was challanged despite my level of preparedness, then that's just the way the test was. Otherwise I probably would have been overcome with hopelessness! LOL)


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (23 Nov 2017)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> A quick tip that always benefited me is that I always study with a distraction in the background (music or TV show) and try to follow along the music/TV show while studying.  It teaches the brain to share attention.



Interesting. I can definitely see how that would benefit the "here's 5 simple tasks, now do them the same time" juggling that goes on!


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## Loachman (23 Nov 2017)

Pre-flight said:
			
		

> Honestly if they are just sitting on their hands waiting for ACS after putting in their recruiting application, maybe it's not the best job for them. From the time I started my application to the time I got to ACS I was researching, practicing, self testing and learning. Even now prior to PFT, I'm constantly reading about CF Weather, airmanship books (FTGU!), CF Flight Manuals, Aeronautical rules, aeromedical info; anything I can get my hands on. You're not told to do this (well you do get a small inadequate ACS study guide from the BPSO) but most probably come by this site by researching (it's pretty high on the Google Search list). Pre-internet? they probably hit their local library, (again, FTGU, From the Ground Up, has been around since the the mid 70s).



I'm aware of today's issue study guide. Such did not exist when I did ACS. I've no idea if any of those books were available in any local libraries, which tended to be fairly small in small towns. My application went in around October 1977, I did ACS in early Feb (could have been mid-to-late-Jan) 1978, was enrolled in late Feb 1978, and in Chilliwack for my Basic Officer Training Course a couple of days into March 1978.

All that we were given by the recruiting centres were bus/train/aeroplane tickets to Downsview Airfield (where ACS was at the time; the building is long gone, as is the Conroy Hotel where we all stayed), a claim, and directions regarding dress (jacket and tie; one fellow wore the same bright blue jacket, yellow shirt, red tie, and green trousers every day - he also bit another candidate in the hotel bar one night - and did not pass).

Only one other chap from my bunch showed up in Chilliwack with me, but enough others did.

Back then, one in eight hundred Pilot applicants earned his Wings, or so we were told in Portage. The odds may well be better now, if people are able to prepare better. I do not know for sure, though.

Y'all miss the delights of having sixteen needles jabbed into your scalp and one in each earlobe now, as well. Sad, that.


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## Roger123 (23 Nov 2017)

Pre-flight said:
			
		

> From the time I started my application to the time I got to ACS I was researching, practicing, self testing and learning.



Same. For the few things you could directly practice, like STD questions, mental math, and reading aircraft '6 pack', I practiced whenever I could, even when completely depleted from the days events. I found the mental exhaustion from the amount of mental arithmetic and study to be beneficial when it came to working out: running, weights, etc. became such a welcomed release from my study that I went on auto-pilot 'hardmode'.

And to be honest, army.ca experiences regarding ACS surely helped my mindset while completing the tests. Before arriving at Trenton, I read many personal accounts of the difficulty of the tests, the mental exhaustion, and no matter how you think you are doing, keep pushing along, dont give up , no matter how bad you think you may be performing.


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## Roger123 (23 Nov 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I went through this long before Algore invented the Internet and nobody prepared, or knew how/what to practice .


Al Gore invented the Internet? I thought he invented the conspiracy theory known as 'Global Warming'.  ;D

When you went through Loachman, was it just the CAPSS selection system. Was there any other written tests required for pilot selection at ACS?


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## gabzo (23 Nov 2017)

ridsteram said:
			
		

> For the successful pilot candidates who were using lumosity and timedistancespeed.info, what was your average question answer time on the time distance speed questions and what was your accuracy? Also what was your average answer time on the time distance fuel questions?


Having recently passed it to become an AEC...you dont have time to look at fast/slow you are going. You just focus on the questions as that can make a difference. Honestly that only 1 of many parts. Make sure you know it and can do it well but most of the tests wont be things you have practiced for

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (24 Nov 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I'm aware of today's issue study guide. Such did not exist when I did ACS. I've no idea if any of those books were available in any local libraries, which tended to be fairly small in small towns. My application went in around October 1977, I did ACS in early Feb (could have been mid-to-late-Jan) 1978, was enrolled in late Feb 1978, and in Chilliwack for my Basic Officer Training Course a couple of days into March 1978.
> 
> All that we were given by the recruiting centres were bus/train/aeroplane tickets to Downsview Airfield (where ACS was at the time; the building is long gone, as is the Conroy Hotel where we all stayed), a claim, and directions regarding dress (jacket and tie; one fellow wore the same bright blue jacket, yellow shirt, red tie, and green trousers every day - he also bit another candidate in the hotel bar one night - and did not pass).
> 
> ...



I think at that time the ACS pass rate was higher and the PFT pass rate was much lower. 

It seems they use the ACS to weed more people before they start the training process, and those that go on to PFT have pass rates in the 80% range  (based on talking to about a half dozen guys that recently passed PFT, that's the pass rates in their classes. Most of the failures are people that weren't really cut out for it mechanically or had other personal issues).


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## mt.chep (24 Nov 2017)

I am heading to Trenton on December 3rd. 
I am stoked and prepared to obliterate the ASC. 

speeddistancetime.info appears to be down (404 not found), nonetheless I have been doing D/S*T questions for months now (along with lumosity), so I am confident in my capability to succeed. 

In terms of physical health, I have never been in better shape in my life, and should I go on to BMOQ early next year, I will be prepared to set course records.  8)


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (24 Nov 2017)

mt.chep said:
			
		

> I am heading to Trenton on December 3rd.
> I am stoked and prepared to obliterate the ASC.
> 
> speeddistancetime.info appears to be down (404 not found), nonetheless I have been doing D/S*T questions for months now (along with lumosity), so I am confident in my capability to succeed.
> ...



Confidence is good. Just remember that the ACS will always overwhelm you. Expect most of the sections you will eventually fail as they get more difficult over time and time is at a premium. The key part is how long you succeed until you failed and how well you are able to be ready for the start of the next section. 

I'm going on my phase 1 in a few weeks, but from what I hear on the flight training you need to be prepared to be ripped apart after every flight by the instructor. Don't expect too many pats on the back but take the feedback as a opportunity to improve and don't let it affect you.

Basically confidence is great and it's key, as long as it doesn't hinder your ability to accept and learn from failure.


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## mt.chep (25 Nov 2017)

Confidence yet balanced with humility, I gather.  :nod:

I started doing Speed Distance Time and Fuel Calculations strictly in my head, averaging around 1 minute per question. As of last week, I can do either Speed Distance Time or Fuel Calculations with an average of under 30 seconds per question. 

As for lumosity, I do daily training on my iPhone and laptop. My scores are well into the 90th to 99th percentile for my age category. Otherwise, I am not a huge gamer, albeit, the tip on being able to focus while listening to music, or rapidly multi-task is prudent. 
I have been studying the history of aviation, and physics, as well.


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## AliTheAce (25 Nov 2017)

Thanks for all the tips! I did play a fair amount of War Thunder, and I did find that you had to track a lot of variables and elements, plus also it teaches you proper energy management in planes and working with high-angle aspects. Hopefully that helps with the multitasking element.

I guess I'll do more of that then, I have been solely focusing on studying for high school and the DST calcs + ground school through cadets. Luckily I currently have a 100% average in Ground school!


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## Carf (27 Nov 2017)

I'm still in the application pipeline, but did went through ACS not too long ago. I come from a quantitative background, so I was able to get by on just a couple of days of doing DST practice - but I will say it does get better with practice no matter how good you are at arithmetic. You just need to get some practice to make the thinking process more efficient. I didn't do any of the luminosity or other little games people say to prepare, and in retrospect I can kind of see how it might help but it's pretty marginal at best. A lot of the tests will simply test your pure aptitude to memorize and process information as it's thrown at you. 

With that said, my thought on this is don't think the prep is going to make the test feel easier. You certainly might do better, but it won't make it feel easier. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but I was told after the ACS by the PSO that I did well above average in all categories and "exceptionally" in the quantitative part. But when I was doing the actual test, I thought it was one of the hardest tests I had ever done (I've never felt so overwhelmed by any university exam that I can remember), and there definitely were moments during the two days that I thought I would fail out.


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (27 Nov 2017)

Carf said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but I was told after the ACS by the PSO that I did well above average in all categories and "exceptionally" in the quantitative part. But when I was doing the actual test, I thought it was one of the hardest tests I had ever done (I've never felt so overwhelmed by any university exam that I can remember), and there definitely were moments during the two days that I thought I would fail out.



This is probably THE key piece of info I'd pass on to anyone looking to do the ACS. Each part takes probably 15 minutes and gets more and more challenging until it ends. Essentially everyone will get overwhelmed and fail as the section approaches the end. If you feel like you are sinking towards the end of each section, do not let it bother you. That's normal. All that matters is how long you were able to succeed until you were overwhelmed, and how well you can start the next part. Don't let stress carry from the end of one section to the next, you are probably doing better than you think. 
(I spent the time in between parts bargaining with myself "I'm sure I'll enjoy ACSO or AEC just as much" or "Well there's plenty of decent trades in the army" or eventually "Well I heard McDonalds is still hiring")


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## Carf (27 Nov 2017)

Pre-flight said:
			
		

> This is probably THE key piece of info I'd pass on to anyone looking to do the ACS. Each part takes probably 15 minutes and gets more and more challenging until it ends. Essentially everyone will get overwhelmed and fail as the section approaches the end. If you feel like you are sinking towards the end of each section, do not let it bother you. That's normal. All that matters is how long you were able to succeed until you were overwhelmed, and how well you can start the next part. Don't let stress carry from the end of one section to the next, you are probably doing better than you think.
> (I spent the time in between parts bargaining with myself "I'm sure I'll enjoy ACSO or AEC just as much" or "Well there's plenty of decent trades in the army" or eventually "Well I heard McDonalds is still hiring")



I think this is easier for those who aren't looking at PLT/ACSO/AEC as _the_ big crucial life move. Whenever I started to feel stressed out by the test, I just thought to myself "What's the worst that could happen? I go back to my cushy office gig". But if you go into the ACS as a make it or break it kinda thing, probably not gonna have even a worse time than usual


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## Roger123 (27 Nov 2017)

I think preparation is important. Not only to get your brain accustomed to the mental activity without the use of pen and paper, but to be able to say to yourself, whatever the outcome, 'I prepared to the best of my ability'. Prep helps confidence going into the test, and, if unsuccessful, helps close that chapter without regret. You gave it your all, and thats the most you can ask of yourself. 

As stated before, the best piece of advice you are going to get on this forum is to expect to be overwhelmed. Realize that people have gone through, felt like they were failing, continued to give it their best, and were surprised they passed. Dont give up when you missed your call sign, when you failed to cancel a diamond, forget a numerical code, or had no idea which plane changed direction to the west. Focus on the task at hand, not your prior perceived level of performance. 

And, if successful, dont be arrognant or smug about. Be respectful of the other people there, still processing that they didnt meet the standard of their preferred occupation. For many people, ACS is their 'make it or break it' moment. Keep the excitement, and in many cases, the surprise that you passed, contained until you get back to the hotel room. Then you can do a cartwheel and realize, in motion, that the room is too small, before slamming into the wall.  :nod:


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (27 Nov 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> And, if successful, dont be arrognant or smug about. Be respectful of the other people there, still processing that they didnt meet the standard of their preferred occupation. For many people, ACS is their 'make it or break it' moment. Keep the excitement, and in many cases, the surprise that you passed, contained until you get back to the hotel room. Then you can do a cartwheel and realize, in motion, that the room is too small, before slamming into the wall.  :nod:




This. When you go to Toronto for the medical after passing the test you can all have a fancy dinner together to celebrate. Prior to that, be aware that 80% of people probably just were dealt their first major "No" of their life at that point.


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## AliTheAce (27 Nov 2017)

Thank you for the words of encouragement.

This is really the main thing that is stressing me out, as the only thing I've ever really wanted to be since my childhood is a pilot in the air force. It would be incredibly devastating, even though you can try again after a year.


Here's one issue though, I think that no matter how much you prepare you still cannot prep enough cause you will always feel like you could have done that one extra problem, that one extra practice question that could have given you the edge.


Now, I'm practicing more of the spatial side of things, and I am doing kind of terrible on them. Like on the CFAT trainer app, for example. Out of 20, I usually get around 13-15 out of 20 questions right. I'm just trying to visualize the shape and the sides in my head but I do mess up frequently.

Is there a trick to this that can help improve my score?


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## Roger123 (27 Nov 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Here's one issue though, I think that no matter how much you prepare you still cannot prep enough cause you will always feel like you could have done that one extra problem, that one extra practice question that could have given you the edge.



Logic seems to be an incomplete solution to an emotional/ personal issue, but take the following for what its worth. We all have our ceilings in different domains, such as our ability to run 5km in a given amount of time, or our ability to reduce our time on dst and fuel consumption calculations while maintaining accuracy. The graph of performance versus training ( performance on y axis and training on x ) becomes an upward sloping, concave graph ( the slope of the graph or the derivative of the function decreases for increases in training). The differential increase in performance for an given increase in training becomes less and less as training increases. We know this is true in running. You get to a point where you are substantially increasing the risk of injury and/or inability to recover for race day. 
     The debate seems to be whether such an aforementioned graph above ( where performance is ACS performance and training in lumosity, brain training sites, etc.) even exists. That is, whether training on such sites has a positive result on performance. Me personally, I think it does, but the effect is marginal. For DST calculations and ACS DST calculations and mental math, the relationship is strong.
     The point is, there is such a thing as too much. Your brain needs time to unwind and relax. After a given level of consistent training, you cannot expect further increases to have significant or any effect. On the contrary, you can burn out mentally and negatively affect performance. 
     I find that running, going out with friends, and exercising as effect ways to reduce burn out and restart fresh.

Anyhow, good luck with your preparations.


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## AliTheAce (27 Nov 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Logic seems to be an incomplete solution to an emotional/ personal issue, but take the following for what its worth. We all have our ceilings in different domains, such as our ability to run 5km in a given amount of time, or our ability to reduce our time on dst and fuel consumption calculations while maintaining accuracy. The graph of performance versus training ( performance on y axis and training on x ) becomes an upward sloping, concave graph ( the slope of the graph or the derivative of the function decreases for increases in training). The differential increase in performance for an given increase in training becomes less and less as training increases. We know this is true in running. You get to a point where you are substantially increasing the risk of injury and/or inability to recover for race day.
> The debate seems to be whether such an aforementioned graph above ( where performance is ACS performance and training in lumosity, brain training sites, etc.) even exists. That is, whether training on such sites has a positive result on performance. Me personally, I think it does, but the effect is marginal. For DST calculations and ACS DST calculations and mental math, the relationship is strong.
> The point is, there is such a thing as too much. Your brain needs time to unwind and relax. After a given level of consistent training, you cannot expect further increases to have significant or any effect. On the contrary, you can burn out mentally and negatively affect performance.
> I find that running, going out with friends, and exercising as effect ways to reduce burn out and restart fresh.
> ...



Thank you, I currently have been drilling myself constantly on practice and studying, so that might be one reason I feel that way.

I do love road cycling, guess I'll hit the road soon when my jacket comes in


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## commander-cb (28 Nov 2017)

Ali.
The answer is no. You can not really do much about it
.
People's brains are wired differently and some people are better at different skills.
You are born with ..( Or possibly learned at age 2 -6 ) spacial ability 3D and visual skills.


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## Carf (28 Nov 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> The graph of performance versus training ( performance on y axis and training on x ) becomes an upward sloping, concave graph ( the slope of the graph or the derivative of the function decreases for increases in training). The differential increase in performance for an given increase in training becomes less and less as training increases.



This is what economists call "diminishing returns"  ;D


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## Loachman (28 Nov 2017)

Not a lot of time available to be on here of late, so one big response to multiple posts follows:



			
				Roger123 said:
			
		

> When you went through Loachman, was it just the CAPSS selection system. Was there any other written tests required for pilot selection at ACS?



CAPSS (The Canadian Association of Pregnancy Support Services, Caribbean Association of Principals of Secondary Schools, Community Action Plan for Seismic Safety, Columnar Alteration with Prominent apical Snouts and Secretions - finally: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/p010363.pdf and http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/cf-aircrew-selection-centre.page but still no photographs of the beast)? 

Hah!

Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_Trainer in a round room with a landscape painted on the walls. It only yawed and seemed pretty lame and pointless.

The photos in the second link look very modern in comparison to what I remember of ASC in Downsview. Definitely last century rather than almost the previous one.

And, yes, written tests, and a numerical sequence on tape (add the first number called out to the second number called out, state the sum, and the second number to the sum, state that sum, and keep going; I think that the speed may have gradually increased during the process) and the afore-mentioned EEG.



			
				Pre-flight said:
			
		

> I think at that time the ACS pass rate was higher and the PFT pass rate was much lower.
> 
> It seems they use the ACS to weed more people before they start the training process, and those that go on to PFT have pass rates in the 80% range  (based on talking to about a half dozen guys that recently passed PFT, that's the pass rates in their classes. Most of the failures are people that weren't really cut out for it mechanically or had other personal issues).



I no longer recall the ACS pass rate, largely due to a multi-year period of fast living in Moose Jaw, Portage, Petawawa, and Lahr plus the places visited during those times (much of which is a fuzzy blur, but what I remember of it all was great fun; don't try any of those things today), but the failure rate during Primary was about thirty percent on all but the 01 course of each year, which was about fifty percent.

No official reason or theory was given for the higher 01 course rate. I have always believed that it was due to the fact that instructing on the Musketeer in Portage was the least-popular flying posting in the whole CF, the bulk of the pipeliner instructors were RMC grads with dashed jet-jockey-knight-of-the-skies dreams as opposed to DEO or OCTP  guys (I'm not sure if that was just the way that the posting plot worked out each year of if successive career managers didn't like them), and they'd just returned to the depth of a prairie winter (before our climate began returning to normal) in a place with no available women of quality (Officer and a Gentleman without the fancy uniforms, sound track, and decent writing) and the daily grind of doing the same thing endlessly in a very boring aeroplane after spending Christmas holidays on pristine, exotic, bikini-covered beaches. I'd not accuse any of them of actively taking their frustrations out on students, but their enthusiasm and morale was certainly most likely more lacking January/February than at any other time of the year.

I was on an 01 course, but had a mature, married, and experienced instructor with at least one Tracker tour, and possibly on another machine or two. In that, I was very lucky.

Portage was viewed more as the "real" selection course and not somewhere where real training took place (I found that very little was directly transferrable to Moose Jaw and the Tutor) - and hence was also known as the Nav Selection Centre.

The first trial course with civilian instructors and only ten students - all CT people and, I think, all Captains - had a one-hundred-percent pass rate. Student maturity probably had a lot to do with that, but the instructors competed for those jobs and would, naturally, have put more effort and enthusiasm into them.

I am not a fan of civilianization, but it does seem to have benefits in some places.



			
				mt.chep said:
			
		

> I am stoked and prepared to obliterate the ASC .... I will be prepared to set course records.



Said no thousands of people who did not get through ever.

"Confidence" and "Cockiness" begin with the same two letters. There endeth the comparison.



			
				Pre-flight said:
			
		

> This is probably THE key piece of info I'd pass on to anyone looking to do the ACS. Each part takes probably 15 minutes and gets more and more challenging until it ends. Essentially everyone will get overwhelmed and fail as the section approaches the end. If you feel like you are sinking towards the end of each section, do not let it bother you. That's normal. All that matters is how long you were able to succeed until you were overwhelmed, and how well you can start the next part. Don't let stress carry from the end of one section to the next, you are probably doing better than you think.



Key.

After every single test, everybody would discuss how they thought that they did. "Strangely", none of the ones who answered every question made it through, no matter how much they thought that they aced each such test. A smaller number of correct answers outweighed a large number of incorrect ones. Quality counts. Mistakes can kill. Problem with a question? Move on, and come back to it if time permits. Don't keep thinking about it in the background. Just let it go. That was critical in the tape test that I mentioned. Nobody could keep that up indefinitely. Miss a response? Take a breath, and begin again with the next two numbers called. Don't get flustered.

This carries over into real flying.

I know of several people who focussed on relatively trivial distractions in their cockpits rather than the bigger picture around them and thumped in. I've been at some of the crash sites, charred bodies still present. "The first thing to do in any emergency is to wind one's watch" (or something equivalent given the lack of windable watches today) - ie, suck back, breathe, and don't stop aviating, navigating, and communicating, in that order.



			
				Roger123 said:
			
		

> As stated before, the best piece of advice you are going to get on this forum is to expect to be overwhelmed. Realize that people have gone through, felt like they were failing, continued to give it their best, and were surprised they passed. Dont give up when you missed your call sign, when you failed to cancel a diamond, forget a numerical code, or had no idea which plane changed direction to the west. Focus on the task at hand, not your prior perceived level of performance.



As perfect advice as you will ever receive.



			
				Roger123 said:
			
		

> And, if successful, dont be arrognant or smug about.



There or anywhere else. Such only increases the number of people who will laugh at you when the inevitable happens, and the duration and volume of the laughter.



			
				Roger123 said:
			
		

> Then you can do a cartwheel and realize, in motion, that the room is too small, before slamming into the wall.



Snort.

Personal, or observed, experience...?

All of this is dated, of course, but basic principles seldom change.


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## gabzo (29 Nov 2017)

Just wanted to let you know that i did the asc and there is no tape test but from your description, i think they replaced it with another different test

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## cld617 (29 Nov 2017)

Question regarding the medical portion of ACS, anyone have experience with nasal congestion and dealing with aircrew medical standards? I know for the fast air guys it poses a significant hazard, not sure if this is because of G forces or if it's strictly a result of not being 100% healthy to deal with pressure variations.


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (3 Dec 2017)

cld617 said:
			
		

> Question regarding the medical portion of ACS, anyone have experience with nasal congestion and dealing with aircrew medical standards? I know for the fast air guys it poses a significant hazard, not sure if this is because of G forces or if it's strictly a result of not being 100% healthy to deal with pressure variations.



Medical entry standard is the same across the board. This is a question only a flight surgeon can answer.


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## AliTheAce (11 Dec 2017)

Guess I'm waking up this thread again, haha.

After constant practice on the Distance Speed Time calculations, I have started to improve quite a lot in the questions, both in terms of accuracy and speed.

I usually get around 8 - 9 out of 10 right on the speeddistancetime.info website, but that's because I usually leave one question blank, just for the sake of getting a better time.

I average between 28 and 13 seconds per question quite frequently. Is that considered good, or should I focus on improving so my timing is more consistent?

I think I'll take a break from the DST portion and do some actual flight simming + multitasking during that, plus some more spatial reasoning.


I use a simulator called Falcon BMS, (look it up if you don't know). which is essentially a full-scale F-16 simulator, with perfectly modeled avionics and weapon systems. If I practice the sim, and some of the aircraft operation tasks, like employing weapons while flying and keeping track of multiple objects, would that help increase my mental capacity in terms of multitasking and hand-eye coordination? I'm also aiming to finish an aerial refueling in-game, which at this point is extremely difficult with a broken joystick, so I'm using a controller. Would all this help improve my chances of success with the mentioned aptitudes, or should I just focus mainly on math and actual spatial-reasoning questions?


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## gabzo (11 Dec 2017)

For the dst...its only part of the exam. If you are doing well then great. It will also help for the math section. 

For the rest of the exam, as mentioned, there is not a ton you can do to practice. You should make sure to look at the information they gave you to have an idea what the tests look like. A lot of it doesnt have much to practice for. That doesnt mean dont try to multitask/ dont practice flying you do you. That being said there is a lot of raw aptitude that gets tested. 

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## xCal (12 Dec 2017)

Hey AliTheAce!

I wrote aircrew selection last week and just wanted to give you a heads up on some things. The SDT that you've been doing should help a lot, I tried to aim to get 9/10 right each time and average 10-15s per question. As the flight sim goes I didn't use a flight sim at all and I passed for all 3 occupations so I'm not really sure how much of a help that would be. Although with that being said, anything that would help your multi-tasking and hand-eye coordination can't hurt. Other than that I would just say be well rested and enjoy your time in Trenton!


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## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (12 Dec 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Guess I'm waking up this thread again, haha.
> 
> After constant practice on the Distance Speed Time calculations, I have started to improve quite a lot in the questions, both in terms of accuracy and speed.
> 
> ...



Don't bother with the flight sim, there's very little it will help with and it's more likely to give you bad habits. Try something else like driving and having a friend ask you math questions, time distance questions, give you delayed directions (take the 4th left, at 5:37 take the first right), and have them give you 5 or 6 digit numbers to remember and ask you the numbers 3-5 minutes later.


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## gabzo (12 Dec 2017)

Also dont forget, when you do take a test, that you aren't allowed to share with the public what is on the test. Only what is given in the guide is meant to be public 

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## ridsteram (12 Dec 2017)

xCal said:
			
		

> Hey AliTheAce!
> 
> I wrote aircrew selection last week and just wanted to give you a heads up on some things. The SDT that you've been doing should help a lot, I tried to aim to get 9/10 right each time and average 10-15s per question. As the flight sim goes I didn't use a flight sim at all and I passed for all 3 occupations so I'm not really sure how much of a help that would be. Although with that being said, anything that would help your multi-tasking and hand-eye coordination can't hurt. Other than that I would just say be well rested and enjoy your time in Trenton!



Good day, thank you for this information.

Were you aiming for 10-15s per question on strictly the Time distance speed? or the fuel questions as well? If not the fuel questions as well were you doing those using mental math only? And what was your time on those?

Thank you.


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## mt.chep (12 Dec 2017)

Unfortunately I did not pass for Pilot, was offered ACSO however. Retrospectively, the most important tests for Pilot are on the 2nd day, and involve instrument comprehension. You are offered two times to practice the questions in the span of two minutes, in hindsight, those two minutes of extra practice during the exam can make the difference between qualifying for Pilot or not. 
I will be moving on to other opportunities. 
Good luck to anyone in the future.


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## xCal (12 Dec 2017)

ridsteram said:
			
		

> Good day, thank you for this information.
> 
> Were you aiming for 10-15s per question on strictly the Time distance speed? or the fuel questions as well? If not the fuel questions as well were you doing those using mental math only? And what was your time on those?
> 
> Thank you.



I aimed for 10-15s per question strictly on the SDT questions, and for the fuel consumption I would allow ~30 seconds. And yes the fuel consumption is all mental math as well. And as per what mt.chep said, the most important tests are NOT on the second day. You need to get a certain score on each individual test as well as a score for the overall test to get pilot, focus equally on every test for both days because they all matter.


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## Roger123 (12 Dec 2017)

mt.chep said:
			
		

> Retrospectively, the most important tests for Pilot are on the 2nd day, and involve instrument comprehension.



Absolutely not  :tsktsk:. Some tests are pilot specific while other tests are included in the evaluation of all three occupations. Even though I sat the test in late Feb. 17, I do not know which tests correspond to which occupation. Taking an educated guess, instrument comprehension tests are probably used in the evaluation of pilot. Not to mention the questions which incorporate the applicant operating a joystick, such as the Sensory Motor Apparatus Test, the Rapid Tracking Test and the Auditory Capacity Test. All three of which, when I sat the test, took place on the first day. 



			
				gabzo said:
			
		

> Also dont forget, when you do take a test, that you aren't allowed to share with the public what is on the test. Only what is given in the guide is meant to be public



Does this include the score we receive at the end by the selection officer? Are we not allowed to share this piece of information in a public forum?


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## Roger123 (12 Dec 2017)

xCal said:
			
		

> I wrote aircrew selection last week...



Hey xCal. Congrats on the pass. Interested to know the pass rate for your group (ie. number of people sitting versus successful applicants).


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## AliTheAce (12 Dec 2017)

xCal said:
			
		

> Hey AliTheAce!
> 
> I wrote aircrew selection last week and just wanted to give you a heads up on some things. The SDT that you've been doing should help a lot, I tried to aim to get 9/10 right each time and average 10-15s per question. As the flight sim goes I didn't use a flight sim at all and I passed for all 3 occupations so I'm not really sure how much of a help that would be. Although with that being said, anything that would help your multi-tasking and hand-eye coordination can't hurt. Other than that I would just say be well rested and enjoy your time in Trenton!



Hey, congratulations mate! Best of luck with BMOQ and Phase 1 PFT! 

Guess I'll just keep doing basic mental math and some more spatial reasoning.

I don't think this violates the NDA that you sign, but for the math questions how many digits did you have to simultaneously multiply/divide, and how many decimals? Would they be around the difficulty of 26 x 80 or 1345 x 986?  

I've been to Trenton 3 years in a row for around 6-7 weeks each for various cadet summer courses, and I must say it's like my home away from home. Love the community there, lots of wonderful people and familiar location, so I guess it shouldn't be that different, even though the CFASC is on the opposite side from the cadet training center.


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## gabzo (12 Dec 2017)

> Does this include the score we receive at the end by the selection officer? Are we not allowed to share this piece of information in a public forum?



I imagine by score you mean results since they dont give out the exact score. That is fine to give out.

Also for op and other readers. The tests are on both days are equally as important. They devide the tests in 2 days on purpose. ...most of the sections are also split in 2 days....



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## gabzo (12 Dec 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Hey, congratulations mate! Best of luck with BMOQ and Phase 1 PFT!
> 
> Guess I'll just keep doing basic mental math and some more spatial reasoning.
> 
> ...


There is a candidate guide which you should have gotten. http://rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page

It has an example of questions.

Dont forget the test is meant for raw aptitude. Although its good to brush up on math as some candidates would be comming out of school, they know that we cant prepare too much for it and much is a surprise. The reason for the test is because too many people failed pilot training. They just dont want to waste yours and their time. 

Even if you get in the CAF and you start getting trained you can still fail pilot training. Although its less high now it is still pretty high. The test is meant to reduce that by judging raw ability. 

I think you practiced a lot, just continue to refresh and dont stress about it. Enjoy your time there and have fun and a great outlook. When you go take the test just do it and no matter how bad you did or think you did just continue. 

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## AliTheAce (12 Dec 2017)

gabzo said:
			
		

> There is a candidate guide which you should have gotten. http://rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page
> 
> It has an example of questions.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the outlook!

Thing is, I'm not even eligible to apply yet, haha. Still haven't received my citizenship so while I'm waiting for that I'm just brushing up on certain skills.

I'm just extremely eager to get any kind of edge possible, as I have been looking forward to this my entire life. Sure, it measures raw ability, but I firmly believe that you can improve even your raw ability by practice, so that should definitely improve my score :0)

I've read the study package over multiple times, but I don't like how it says "you do not need to prepare for this test"

If I do my best to prepare then I would have no excuses whatsoever if I don't pass, because I did everything in my power to prepare. Just for peace of mind alone, I think it's worth spending time to practice


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## Roger123 (12 Dec 2017)

gabzo said:
			
		

> I imagine by score you mean results since they dont give out the exact score. That is fine to give out.



When you get called at the end and sat down for your results, in my case, they gave me a specific number. He then went over the results and indicated my percentile in the different domains. In the candidate results page they give to you, it gives a pass or fail beside the three occupations. There is no written number or percentile standing as discussed in the debrief. Anyhow, its not important to the preparation of future candidates.
Not to sound chessy, but it is the most important and memorable result I have ever achieved academically, the 2nd of which is a finance midterm in Uni where I scored a 4.0 and the class average was a fail. Not sure if its connected, but I suddenly got invited to alot of different study groups after that result  ;D.


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## gabzo (12 Dec 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Thanks for the outlook!
> 
> Thing is, I'm not even eligible to apply yet, haha. Still haven't received my citizenship so while I'm waiting for that I'm just brushing up on certain skills.
> 
> ...


Honestly i wouldnt worry.

And although you can always get better in some things (not all) if you know exactly how to practice for a test...and then get a better score but you fail pilot training then it does a huge disservice. You might even have to do another trade in the CAF you night not have initially wanted. 

I think your equiped with all you need and the rest is about going there when needed.

Also dont forget that its so far away, the test might do a 180...and be different series of tests


@roger nice, weird you got an exact number but pretty cool. Just passing it changed my outlook. I just cant call myself stupid anymore. Instead I say others are smart too but anyone who passes that is not stupid

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## Roger123 (12 Dec 2017)

gabzo said:
			
		

> Also dont forget that its so far away, the test might do a 180...and be different series of tests


Dont think the test will change much in the next 10 years. Its only been implemented for selection purposes since 2013. When the RAF in the UK do away with it, then the RCAF may follow suit. I do think that AEC test candidates will have a series of additional tests to perform though, from my experience in Trenton.


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## gabzo (12 Dec 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Dont think the test will change much in the next 10 years. Its only been implemented for selection purposes since 2013. When the RAF in the UK do away with it, then the RCAF may follow suit. I do think that AEC test candidates will have a series of additional tests to perform though, from my experience in Trenton.


Im not worried of them removing the tests. 

That being said the tests could change is all im saying

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## xCal (12 Dec 2017)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Hey xCal. Congrats on the pass. Interested to know the pass rate for your group (ie. number of people sitting versus successful applicants).



Thanks! I wrote it with 19 other people and I believe (not 100% sure) that 3 of us passed for pilot. It's not easy, but definitely do-able.


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## xCal (12 Dec 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Hey, congratulations mate! Best of luck with BMOQ and Phase 1 PFT!
> 
> Guess I'll just keep doing basic mental math and some more spatial reasoning.
> 
> ...



When it comes to multiplication and division I think the best advice I can give is don't focus as much on complexity as you do speed and accuracy. Also I don't remember many decimals.


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## AliTheAce (12 Dec 2017)

xCal said:
			
		

> When it comes to multiplication and division I think the best advice I can give is don't focus as much on complexity as you do speed and accuracy. Also I don't remember many decimals.



Exactly what I was looking for, thank you once again!

Wish you best of luck with BMOQ and PFT


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## AliTheAce (12 Dec 2017)

Doing really poorly in the spatial reasoning section of the CFAT practice app, mainly visualizing how the cube faces relate to each other when folded/unfolded. I get around 60-70% of them right.

I realize that cube folding is not part of the ACSbut it would help improve the spatial reasoning scores. Anything that can help me visualize better?


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## xCal (12 Dec 2017)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Doing really poorly in the spatial reasoning section of the CFAT practice app, mainly visualizing how the cube faces relate to each other when folded/unfolded. I get around 60-70% of them right.
> 
> I realize that cube folding is not part of the ACSbut it would help improve the spatial reasoning scores. Anything that can help me visualize better?



All I can really suggest is lots and lots of practice, I think its one of those things that you're either good at or you're not. You can't really learn spatial reasoning.


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## gabzo (12 Dec 2017)

@alitheace

If you dont meet the minimum cut off then there is not much you can do to improve it. One of those things you have or you don't.

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## Icarus035 (12 Dec 2017)

Just came back from Trenton earlier today, managed to get in for pilot. 

Honestly I went in practicing math, hand eye, tracking targets, spatial reasoning, multitasking etc etc etc. It didn't help at all. I'm not trying to spook ya, but the tests are whatever is on the candidate guide but on steroids and some new experimental stuff. USE that guide, make sure you understand what each screen is likely trying to ask you. Mental arithmetic is probably the only thing that is worth studying imo. 

it's been said countless times throughout this thread but It can't be stressed enough, you will feel like you are failing constantly. I was in a group of 20, everyone except 1 girl thought they were legitimately failing. Of the 20, 8 passed for pilot and 2 who did not apply for pilot, passed their chosen profession bench marks. so that's a 50% pass rate. Only 1 person believed they were doing well, to be fair she passed for pilot so props to her confidence. I thought I failed every question on one section, winds up I ended up doing the best in that section.

If you want to be a pilot then you have to be able to push through failure, don't slow down, don't give up, don't hesitate on the test, if you failed an entire section, press on and stay in the now. It's a brutal test but it was fun as hell.


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## AliTheAce (12 Dec 2017)

Thank you for the words of advice, that's something I hear very frequently skimming ACS threads.

I'm hoping that I can pull it off in the future when I'm at that stage. But for now, I'll try to stay mentally sharp.


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## AliTheAce (12 Dec 2017)

Congratulations on qualifying for pilot! May you enjoy clear, smooth skies


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## Das.Rado (13 Dec 2017)

First and foremost, congratulations to those of you who recently passed ACS.

I am hoping that one of the recent graduates of ACS can comment on whether or not speeddistancetime.info provides a good sample set of what’s to come. Are the questions on this website harder, or easier than those questions found on the CFASC test? Can we expect 3-4 digit questions (ie. 369NM @ 615KTS)?

Thanks.


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## Loachman (13 Dec 2017)

Welcome to Army.ca

Have you read through this thread? If not, do so.

Start reading through the other relevant threads on this Site as well. There's a ton of useful info laid out like a banquet of knowledge.


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## Roger123 (13 Dec 2017)

Das.Rado said:
			
		

> I am hoping that one of the recent graduates of ACS can comment on whether or not speeddistancetime.info provides a good sample set of what’s to come. Are the questions on this website harder, or easier than those questions found on the CFASC test? Can we expect 3-4 digit questions (ie. 369NM @ 615KTS)?
> 
> Thanks.



You know SDT questions are going to be included in the test battery. If you are having trouble with 2-3 digit questions, there isnt much practical benefit jumping to 3-4 digit questions. Whatever your training level, work to increase proficiency until the next level. This goes for all types of preparation. Work at a level that is doable but still poses a challenge and then, in time with practice, ramp up the difficulty. Anything being stated that is beyond the candidate test guide is a violation of the Non-disclosure agreement. You know from the listed experiences people perceive great difficulty with the testing: simulate such conditions in your preparation.


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## Caronh (4 Jan 2018)

Hi everybody,

Ive received confirmation that I have been enrolled in the aircrew selection testing at Trenton and, after chatting with my father, who is a pilot (going on 23yrs), he recommended I dress cleanly during the process, as he says it's as much an interview as the actual interview I'll have to do later on.

Ive got a pretty long beard, but still far from looking like a hipster. Would it be better for me to shave it off? 

Also, any general advice for ACS?


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## Sub_Guy (5 Jan 2018)

Has anyone used this website to prepare for the testing?   Mainly the speed/distance stuff.

https://www.jobtestprep.co.uk/raf-oasc-aptitude

I should be in Trenton sometime in mid-Feb.


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## Downhiller229 (5 Jan 2018)

Caronh said:
			
		

> Hi everybody,
> 
> Ive received confirmation that I have been enrolled in the aircrew selection testing at Trenton and, after chatting with my father, who is a pilot (going on 23yrs), he recommended I dress cleanly during the process, as he says it's as much an interview as the actual interview I'll have to do later on.
> 
> ...



It's never a bad idea to look sharp around people you might work with in the future. Beard is cool though, you're not subject to the standard yet. Otherwise I would just dress comfortably... 

Overthinking any part of this process is just as detrimental as underpreparing. 

Best of luck


----------



## Caronh (5 Jan 2018)

Downhiller229 said:
			
		

> It's never a bad idea to look sharp around people you might work with in the future. Beard is cool though, you're not subject to the standard yet. Otherwise I would just dress comfortably...
> 
> Overthinking any part of this process is just as detrimental as underpreparing.
> 
> Best of luck



Appreciate the reply, thanks!


----------



## Icarus035 (9 Jan 2018)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Has anyone used this website to prepare for the testing?   Mainly the speed/distance stuff.
> 
> https://www.jobtestprep.co.uk/raf-oasc-aptitude
> 
> I should be in Trenton sometime in mid-Feb.



In all honesty, there is very little that will prepare you for the tests; I did luminosity, SDT questions, the LSAT and they didn't help all that much, maybe a touch but nothing that made me go "thank god I practiced this". The only thing studying helped me with for certain, was the confidence I had when I first entered the test, though that was shattered by the time the break came lol. 

Best advice I can give about that site is...trust your gut, (it's often picked up on things your not aware of) does it feel like it would help you? for some people the answer is no for others yes, neither are right or wrong it's what works for them. Go in prepared to do your best, spoiler alert *it won't be enough*, but when it's not enough KEEP GOING LIKE IT IS. 

Never let the perceived failure of the last question affect the present, the last question/test/section is done pass or fail, if you let what HAS happened creep into your head what WILL happen is failure.


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## Roger123 (13 Jan 2018)

Icarus035 said:
			
		

> In all honesty, there is very little that will prepare you for the tests; I did luminosity, SDT questions, the LSAT and they didn't help all that much, maybe a touch but nothing that made me go "thank god I practiced this". The only thing studying helped me with for certain, was the confidence I had when I first entered the test, though that was shattered by the time the break came lol.


Mental math training helps alot. How many of us practice 155/90 to two decimal places on a regular basis outside of preparing for ACS? There is ground that can be made up if preparation is commenced well in advance and is consistent and challenging. 
Practicing SDT calculations mentally also helps. SAT algebra questions, in my experience, help the math portion when you are given pencil and paper. Reading flight instrument six packs, in varying degrees of attitude, bank angles, climbs and descents, airspeed,etc. help with instrument comprehension. Memory games while doing something else helps with multitasking. 
There is a limit to how much you can prepare for this test ( some portions I still cannot think how I would prepare for them if I had to do it again), but there is room to improve.


----------



## Icarus035 (14 Jan 2018)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Mental math training helps alot. How many of us practice 155/90 to two decimal places on a regular basis outside of preparing for ACS? There is ground that can be made up if preparation is commenced well in advance and is consistent and challenging.
> Practicing SDT calculations mentally also helps. SAT algebra questions, in my experience, help the math portion when you are given pencil and paper. Reading flight instrument six packs, in varying degrees of attitude, bank angles, climbs and descents, airspeed,etc. help with instrument comprehension. Memory games while doing something else helps with multitasking.
> There is a limit to how much you can prepare for this test ( some portions I still cannot think how I would prepare for them if I had to do it again), but there is room to improve.



Sorry my message got lost in my own ass, I meant to say that in terms of the RAF practice tests he was looking to pay for I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean it won't help. I simply meant to point out that what works for some doesn't work for others, therefore he should go with his gut as to whether or not he feels like the RAF practice tests would benefit him. For me personally, I didn't find those experiences helped me, but there's more then one way to skin a cat.


----------



## Roger123 (15 Jan 2018)

Icarus035 said:
			
		

> ... therefore he should go with his gut as to whether or not he feels like the RAF practice tests would benefit him. For me personally, I didn't find those experiences helped me, but there's more then one way to skin a cat.


    Fair enough. In my experience, the RAF practice tests are a good intro to such calculations. Problem is, the numbers given can be broken down into easy to work with numbers. As mentioned before in a previous post, you have to practice working with numbers that cannot be broken down and require being mentally solved as is. In other words, if all you do is RAF practice tests online, become well versed in breaking down the question into easy to work with numbers and then are faced with numbers that cannot be broken down, you'll waste time, be overwhelmed and not as successful. 
     RAF helps with understanding the problem and develops simplifying the problem by looking for common denominators. I would copy the problem structure, use less than 'ideal' numbers, and work on them that way.


----------



## AliTheAce (15 Jan 2018)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Fair enough. In my experience, the RAF practice tests are a good intro to such calculations. Problem is, the numbers given can be broken down into easy to work with numbers. As mentioned before in a previous post, you have to practice working with numbers that cannot be broken down and require being mentally solved as is. In other words, if all you do is RAF practice tests online, become well versed in breaking down the question into easy to work with numbers and then are faced with numbers that cannot be broken down, you'll waste time, be overwhelmed and not as successful.
> RAF helps with understanding the problem and develops simplifying the problem by looking for common denominators. I would copy the problem structure, use less than 'ideal' numbers, and work on them that way.



Can you give me an example of how you would break down 155/90 so you can divide it mentally? Or is it not possible?

How do you do similar questions that can't be broken down? Visualizing long division?


----------



## Roger123 (15 Jan 2018)

Visualizing long division. I get 1.72 from 155/90. Dont need to go further than that. 155/90 = 1 with remainder 65 bring down the zero. Decimal place. 650 divide by 90 is 7 with remainder 20 ( 650- 630= 20, 90* 7 = 630) . Bring down the zero. 200 divide by 90 = 2 remainder 20. 
You get 1.72


----------



## Overboard (15 Jan 2018)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Can you give me an example of how you would break down 155/90 so you can divide it mentally? Or is it not possible?
> 
> How do you do similar questions that can't be broken down? Visualizing long division?



90 goes into 155 once (Answer is 1). 
155-90=65. 90 cant go into 65, so add a zero to 65. 
90 goes into 650 7 times (Answer is 1.7). 
7*90= 630. 650-630=20. 90 doesn't go into 20, so add a zero. 
90 goes into 200 2 times (Answer is 1.72). 
9*2=180. 200-180=20. 
As above, 90 can't go into 20, so we go back to 200. You can see that this will repeat itself forever, so the answer is 1.722 repeating.


----------



## AliTheAce (15 Jan 2018)

Excellent, exactly what I was looking for. Thank you guys! Really appreciate the help


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (17 Jan 2018)

I don't remember dealing with numbers that are not generally round. 

Not exactly sure how the tests corrects it, but I would not waste too much time trying to get accurate answers to the 4th decimal point. You will have too much to do that getting your mind lost in one question will sink you.

If you are stumped just make a ballpark guess and move on. It's somewhere between 2 and 1.5, then put in 1.75 and move on to the next question.


----------



## Caronh (18 Jan 2018)

Well, I just finished ACS today and I apparently did very well and qualified for Pilot, AEC and ACSO! Was a surreal feeling walking out of the testing building. 

My $0.02: Panic is unavoidable. At some point in the test, you'll panic and see red and nothing will register in your brain anymore. Numbers dont have meaning and easy calculations get bogged down in brain fog. Being able to mentally reset as quickly as possible is as important as the other qualities you are being tested for.

Also go to bed early and plan for >8 hours in bed, cause you'll definitely be turning around for half of it before you actually fall asleep or wake up in the middle of the night like me


----------



## AliTheAce (20 Jan 2018)

Caronh said:
			
		

> Well, I just finished ACS today and I apparently did very well and qualified for Pilot, AEC and ACSO! Was a surreal feeling walking out of the testing building.
> 
> My $0.02: Panic is unavoidable. At some point in the test, you'll panic and see red and nothing will register in your brain anymore. Numbers dont have meaning and easy calculations get bogged down in brain fog. Being able to mentally reset as quickly as possible is as important as the other qualities you are being tested for.
> 
> Also go to bed early and plan for >8 hours in bed, cause you'll definitely be turning around for half of it before you actually fall asleep or wake up in the middle of the night like me



Wow, congratulations! 

How much preparation did you do before? How comfortable did you feel fore walking into the testing building?

Also, would you be able to just take a quick test on speeddistancetime.info and let me know what your time and score was? I just wanna gauge how well-prepared I am.


----------



## Caronh (21 Jan 2018)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Wow, congratulations!
> 
> How much preparation did you do before? How comfortable did you feel fore walking into the testing building?
> 
> Also, would you be able to just take a quick test on speeddistancetime.info and let me know what your time and score was? I just wanna gauge how well-prepared I am.



Prepared for ~2-3 months using pilotaptitudetest.com and SDT questions. Going in the building and sitting in the wait room was horrible, but once I got started, I got in the zone and everything else kinda faded away.

As for SDT, I never really was quick at them, averaging 5-20s for the easier ones and almost a minute for the more difficult ones. I was more concerned about getting them correctly than being the quickest and that strategy worked apparently. Gotta be great at everything else though to not fail.

One thing I'd change is do more till Im <30s on all practice questions.


----------



## AliTheAce (21 Jan 2018)

Caronh said:
			
		

> Prepared for ~2-3 months using pilotaptitudetest.com and SDT questions. Going in the building and sitting in the wait room was horrible, but once I got started, I got in the zone and everything else kinda faded away.
> 
> As for SDT, I never really was quick at them, averaging 5-20s for the easier ones and almost a minute for the more difficult ones. I was more concerned about getting them correctly than being the quickest and that strategy worked apparently. Gotta be great at everything else though to not fail.
> 
> One thing I'd change is do more till Im <30s on all practice questions.



I see, thanks. 

Did you purchase a subscription for pilotaptitudetest.com?

And I'm guessing you practiced only mental math, since there wasn't really anything else you could practice for?


----------



## Caronh (21 Jan 2018)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> I see, thanks.
> 
> Did you purchase a subscription for pilotaptitudetest.com?
> 
> And I'm guessing you practiced only mental math, since there wasn't really anything else you could practice for?



Yes bought premium, as they have plenty of psychometric tests of varying difficulty and questions on math logic, science, etc. Way I saw it was like buying a book for university, so it wasn't really a tough decision haha.

And yes, everytime I had to do SDT, I would do it mentally because like they said in the study guide, you won't have access to writing aids, so might as well practice like you play.

Best of luck to you!


----------



## Rip10793 (27 Jan 2018)

Good Day,

I never got the opportunity to properly thank all of the individuals whom have posted any form of advice in this thread. 
I passed ACS back in June-2017 and it was as nerve-wrecking as everyone had mentioned it would be. However, with that said, I thoroughly enjoyed the testing portion and it was my downtime that caused me to overthink the what-ifs. 

As an applicant, I was treated with the utmost respect and was offered sage advice by many of the members on the base. All were friendly and willing to speak about their experiences, in their respective trades, and provide answers to any questions I had regarding my selected trade. 

The two nights I spent on base for ACS I vividly remember not being able to sleep for the life of me. I probably got 3-4hrs of fully interrupted sleep the first night and 2-3hrs the following night.

Overall, there was a group of ~17 applicants during my ACS, IIRC. We were all as nervous as the next but my mentality and preparation had prepared me for the best and the worst. I studied to my hearts content and remembered to breath as the testing was being conducted ;D 
After the testing had concluded, being the ~9th person to finish, I walked to the briefing room and took a seat. One by one the applicants were being called... all prior to myself had come back with no success, for PLT, and my mind was bouncing from one place to the next not knowing what to think. 

Then came my turn...
After being seated in the small room I was notified that I had made ACSO/AEC but there was a question and an excruciatingly long pause prior to receiving the answer for how I had done for PLT. 30 seconds passed, what felt like an entirety, and this was when my heart began to beat out of my chest and the muscles in my face were fully flexed. I made the cut. I couldn't stop smiling for the life of me and was dumbfounded when asked if I had any questions. I go back and try to be as humble but two of the applicants from my slot, after noticing my gleaming smile, come up to me to ask, or more so tell, "You got PLT, didn't you?" to which I give a nod and still was unable to compile any conceivable words  

Out of my ACS I was the only one to have qualified for PLT.

TL;DR 
Barely slept, passed for ACSO/AEC/PLT, was the only one in the slot to meet PLT standard, enjoyed the experience and am looking forward to what the future brings.


----------



## AliTheAce (27 Jan 2018)

Rip10793 said:
			
		

> Good Day,
> 
> I never got the opportunity to properly thank all of the individuals whom have posted any form of advice in this thread.
> I passed ACS back in June-2017 and it was as nerve-wrecking as everyone had mentioned it would be. However, with that said, I thoroughly enjoyed the testing portion and it was my downtime that caused me to overthink the what-ifs.
> ...



Amazing, thank you for sharing your experience!

Wish you best of luck with training!


Anything else not mentioned in the thread that you feel like would help?

Like someone I talked to earlier showed me the practice CLAN test where you have to stop the diamonds on the correct color band. He said that do not memorize the letters n the corners, but rather stare at them so they are burned into your vision. Did you feel like that helped?


----------



## Rip10793 (27 Jan 2018)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Amazing, thank you for sharing your experience!
> 
> Wish you best of luck with training!
> 
> ...



Additionally, it has been said many a times before but I do not believe it can be said enough, _prepare to the best of your abilities_. You do not want to walk out of ACS thinking you left anything on the table, it will only lead to regret.


----------



## Roger123 (27 Jan 2018)

Rip10793 said:
			
		

> After being seated in the small room I was notified that I had made ACSO/AEC but there was a question and an excruciatingly long pause prior to receiving the answer for how I had done for PLT. 30 seconds passed, what felt like an entirety, and this was when my heart began to beat out of my chest and the muscles in my face were fully flexed.



I swear that pause by the selection officer is intentional. It happened to me and my mind began going over what am I going to do next in life. And that stupid-face feeling after being notified you passed, can only count on one hand the number of times I felt that way.


----------



## andychun1216 (27 Jan 2018)

Hi all! I just have one quick question, I just can't remember how long is our ACS score good for? I remember someone saying 2 years.. or maybe I'm wrong. Does anyone know?


----------



## nearp (4 Feb 2018)

andychun1216 said:
			
		

> Hi all! I just have one quick question, I just can't remember how long is our ACS score good for? I remember someone saying 2 years.. or maybe I'm wrong. Does anyone know?



I asked the Aircrew Selection Officer this question when I was in Trenton and they said the score is good for 5 years. I've heard recruiting staff say 2 years but I'm more inclined to go with the aircrew selection's answer of 5yrs as they're the one's who administer and assign the ACS scores.


----------



## k1te (7 Feb 2018)

Hi, just wondering if this is normal. I recently got rescheduled for the ACS. This is already my fourth time getting rescheduled from Sept to Dec, then to Jan then to Feb and now I am getting rescheduled to April...


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## Pilot-Wannabe (7 Feb 2018)

Not sure if this helps but I recently got rescheduled as well. I was supposed to go at the end of Jan, now I'm being told between April and June.

Are you DEO?  I was told is they're mostly processing ROTP\CEOTP right now.


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## Roger123 (7 Feb 2018)

I was also rescheduled multiple times around this time last year. First it was toward the end of January. Then rescheduled toward the end of February. Then asked for March and April dates to be submitted. Then after submitting dates for said dates, I got an email saying I had been loaded on the last week of February. I know it aint fun being given the run around, but use this time to the best of your ability to prepare for the coming tests. By the way, I am a DEO applicant, so it adds credence to ROTP candidates being given preference. In my case, it could have been that someone dropped out and I was given the spot. My course was loaded to capacity ( 20 candidates I believe, mostly ROTP).


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## FSTG (12 Feb 2018)

"Priority" to ROTP applicants would be assigned just because the actual proportion of DEO to ROTP is too high right? They do have predetermined amount of spots for each type of applicants?


----------



## Deleted member 102242 (12 Feb 2018)

They do have a predetermined amount. It's something like 73 DEO and 25/30 ROTP for Fiscal Year (FY) 2018/2019. You can check it out on one of the recruiting pages.


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## ridsteram (26 Mar 2018)

You need to get used to breaking these into easier numbers. So when you look at 450km at a speed of 420km/h you instantly know that you are travelling for more then one hour. You now have 30km left out of 420 to see what fraction of an hour you travel additionally.

Personally the way I tackle this is a quick 30 x 10 (easy peasy) is 300, then its easy to remember that 30 x 4 would be 120 to get 420.. which means that extra 30 km is 1/14 of 1 hour. This is where it would get a little trickier because 14 is not a perfect fraction of an hour; however, we know that 4 mins x 15 and 5 mins x 12 is an hour so I would estimate 1h 4 mins.


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## SupersonicMax (26 Mar 2018)

30 km at 7 km per minute (420 km/h divided by 60 minutes/h.  That's 4 and 2/7th minutes or 4 minutes and approx 18 seconds.  With the full hours included, that's 1h04m18s

Break he speed down in units per minute.   That's what you'll do when you fly.


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## AliTheAce (26 Mar 2018)

Got it, thanks. Haven't really worked with fractions in that way so I think practice is the best way to get faster at it. 

On another note, I hit my best ever score on speeddistancetime.info by getting 10/10 in 8.6 seconds. That might have been a fluke but hopefully I can continue to be more consistent


----------



## AliTheAce (28 Mar 2018)

Well I guess I'm stumped again, haha. Can't wrap my brain around this exactly. So let's say you're travelling at 360 km/h and need to cover 318 km, and I need to find the time. What would I do? Convert 360 km/h to km/min? That would result in 6 km/minute. 

Or, for example, 328 km to cover at a speed of 480 km/h.That would be 8 km/minute.

I'm stumped on what to do after I convert them.


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## BurmaShave (28 Mar 2018)

So, 360 less 318 is 42, which is 7 minutes. 53 minutes. 328 is 40 8s, and another 8. 41 minutes.

Combine multiplying, dividing, adding, and subtracting to break down a speed into minutes and back up into hours. Be fluent doing arithmetic with the factors of 60 (1,2,3,4,6,10,15,20,30,60).

I will echo what other folks have said, though: relax. It's easy to cross the line from good preparation to needless worry, which is a dreadfully unproductive thing for a trainee pilot to do. 8.6 seconds per is plenty fast for SDT stuff (though, my record _is_ 4.2 per ).


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## Roger123 (28 Mar 2018)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Well I guess I'm stumped again, haha. Can't wrap my brain around this exactly. So let's say you're travelling at 360 km/h and need to cover 318 km, and I need to find the time. What would I do? Convert 360 km/h to km/min? That would result in 6 km/minute.
> 
> Or, for example, 328 km to cover at a speed of 480 km/h.That would be 8 km/minute.
> 
> I'm stumped on what to do after I convert them.



Convert the speeds in km/h to km/minute. Divide the speed by 60 ( because there are 60 min/h)
360 km/h / 60 min/h = 6 km/h * h/min = 6 km/min. When you have speed in km/min and use it find time, the answer becomes in minutes it takes to cover said distance. Distance 318 km, so 318 km/ 6 km/min = 53 minutes.

For the second question, you already got the speed at 8km/min. Again, when you use this in the TSD formula, you get the answer in minutes. 328 km / 8 km/min = 41 minutes. ( the km cancel and your answer is in minutes: km  / km/min = km * min/km = min).


----------



## AliTheAce (28 Mar 2018)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Convert the speeds in km/h to km/minute. Divide the speed by 60 ( because there are 60 min/h)
> 360 km/h / 60 min/h = 6 km/h * h/min = 6 km/min. When you have speed in km/min and use it find time, the answer becomes in minutes it takes to cover said distance. Distance 318 km, so 318 km/ 6 km/min = 53 minutes.
> 
> For the second question, you already got the speed at 8km/min. Again, when you use this in the TSD formula, you get the answer in minutes. 328 km / 8 km/min = 41 minutes. ( the km cancel and your answer is in minutes: km  / km/min = km * min/km = min).



Oh wow, didn't know it was that intuitive! Thank you.


----------



## 5kc11 (29 Mar 2018)

Hello,

I'm currently in the recruitment process, completed my interview and basic medical evaluation. Been waiting for a date for Air Crew Selection, but it keeps getting deferred. Its been a year now, with no word. I've called the recruitment center and its been the same line over and over. I'll receive an email 2 weeks prior to my test date. 

Can anyone provide me with a timeline as to how long it took them to get a test date for Air Crew Selection? 
Just to be specific, I'm a DEO applying for ACSO trade.

any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you


----------



## Deleted member 102242 (3 Apr 2018)

Hi,

I did my ACS in May of last year, Merit listed since August. It's a waiting game, so relax and live your life like the military is never going to happen, because it might not. If it's any consolation, my understanding is that the whole 'system' for officers is really really backlogged and there are some major holds ATM. 

Cheers and stay motivated!


----------



## Jazz (4 Apr 2018)

Hello everyone!

Not sure if this is the right place to ask..

Has anyone heard back about DEO ACS selections for the new fiscal year?  I was nominated for three dates in April (specifically told since there was no slots left in the current FY, I would have to wait for the new one), but I have yet to hear back.  And one of the proposed dates is this weekend!

I have emailed and went to the recruiting office in person a many times, but I just keep getting the same "there is no new information at this time" response.  

I'm just curious if any current DEO applicants waiting for ACS have been booked yet!   Any information is much appreciated!


----------



## Pilot-Wannabe (4 Apr 2018)

I just heard back today - my dates are April 18\19 so youll probably hear back soon is my guess.


----------



## Jazz (4 Apr 2018)

Pilot-Wannabe said:
			
		

> I just heard back today - my dates are April 18\19 so youll probably hear back soon is my guess.



This is fantastic news!  Once of the nomination dates I was given was April 16-17.   I did hear back this morning the scheduler that was working with my file, and she had mentioned she had no new information (again), but that she was going to send an email inquiry today.  So fingers crossed.

And good luck to you!


----------



## Icarus035 (12 Apr 2018)

5kc11 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I'm currently in the recruitment process, completed my interview and basic medical evaluation. Been waiting for a date for Air Crew Selection, but it keeps getting deferred. Its been a year now, with no word. I've called the recruitment center and its been the same line over and over. I'll receive an email 2 weeks prior to my test date.
> 
> ...



I'm a week out from phase 2 medical, so I'm not the best source of information but seeing as how you've had no public response I'll help out. Once you have completed your CFAT, IF you score high enough you qualify for the trade, I'll work off the assumption that you have your degree and scored high enough. What should happen next is that they do your background/security clearance checks. Mine took 6 months, though I had also applied for int officer. Once that is done they email you potential dates for ACS, these dates are for you to choose from, they will nominate you for one of the three you've selected and you'll be off. I did my ACS in December of 2017 and im only now going to be merit listed so expect more waiting. One thing I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend is going in to the RC in person bi-weekly. I had passed my background check and my RC had been sitting on it for a month, had I not gone in I doubt I would have heard for a while. Furthermore I had my medical (Phase one cleared) and had been ready to book my phase two for 3 weeks before I found out, again by going in person. 

* I want to be clear i'm not pointing fingers or blaming anyone or thing, I just want to make clear...WANT IT be a pain in their ass and go in once a week if you have to, show your  motivated. This process tests your motivation greatly. The ACS will test you ability and the training will test your mettle i'm sure but this Recruiting process test your motivation.


TL;DR - GO IN PERSON bi-weekly.

Hope this helps


----------



## nic32 (12 Apr 2018)

Icarus035 said:
			
		

> I'm a week out from phase 2 medical, so I'm not the best source of information but seeing as how you've had no public response I'll help out. Once you have completed your CFAT, IF you score high enough you qualify for the trade, I'll work off the assumption that you have your degree and scored high enough. What should happen next is that they do your background/security clearance checks. Mine took 6 months, though I had also applied for int officer. Once that is done they email you potential dates for ACS, these dates are for you to choose from, they will nominate you for one of the three you've selected and you'll be off. I did my ACS in December of 2017 and im only now going to be merit listed so expect more waiting. One thing I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend is going in to the RC in person bi-weekly. I had passed my background check and my RC had been sitting on it for a month, had I not gone in I doubt I would have heard for a while. Furthermore I had my medical (Phase one cleared) and had been ready to book my phase two for 3 weeks before I found out, again by going in person.
> 
> * I want to be clear i'm not pointing fingers or blaming anyone or thing, I just want to make clear...WANT IT be a pain in their *** and go in once a week if you have to, show your  motivated. This process tests your motivation greatly. The ACS will test you ability and the training will test your mettle i'm sure but this Recruiting process test your motivation.
> 
> ...



EDIT: Finally, I got an answer today from the recruitment center that I'll receive an email soon since Ottawa has done processing my medical part1! Good news


----------



## AliTheAce (13 Apr 2018)

Icarus035 said:
			
		

> I'm a week out from phase 2 medical, so I'm not the best source of information but seeing as how you've had no public response I'll help out. Once you have completed your CFAT, IF you score high enough you qualify for the trade, I'll work off the assumption that you have your degree and scored high enough. What should happen next is that they do your background/security clearance checks. Mine took 6 months, though I had also applied for int officer. Once that is done they email you potential dates for ACS, these dates are for you to choose from, they will nominate you for one of the three you've selected and you'll be off. I did my ACS in December of 2017 and im only now going to be merit listed so expect more waiting. One thing I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend is going in to the RC in person bi-weekly. I had passed my background check and my RC had been sitting on it for a month, had I not gone in I doubt I would have heard for a while. Furthermore I had my medical (Phase one cleared) and had been ready to book my phase two for 3 weeks before I found out, again by going in person.
> 
> * I want to be clear i'm not pointing fingers or blaming anyone or thing, I just want to make clear...WANT IT be a pain in their *** and go in once a week if you have to, show your  motivated. This process tests your motivation greatly. The ACS will test you ability and the training will test your mettle i'm sure but this Recruiting process test your motivation.
> 
> ...



They don't let you proceed with Aircrew selections until they do your background checks?


----------



## TBrooks (14 Apr 2018)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> They don't let you proceed with Aircrew selections until they do your background checks?


Seems to be a case by case basis or possibly the decision of the recruiting Center. I'm scheduled for ACS but have not yet had the background check done. Looking at the application samples I see ACS scheduled differently for many people


----------



## Icarus035 (14 Apr 2018)

I apologize and should clarify, I am not an authority on the ACS i’ve Simply done it. I had intelligence officer as a trade as well as pilot and the background stuff is very lengthy for intelligence I believe, so it was done first. in terms of pilot, the thing that matters most is the ACS. With an rumoured fail rate of 75% (i’ve Been told 70-80%) it is usually the cut off for most people. Due to this they want to save time and resources and get it done first. 

All that being said,I was on course with people who had done everything else from other provinces and this was the final stage, along with phase 2 medical. So brooks is probably right it’s case by case but if I had to guess I would say if you have other trades on your list expect to have the background check done then maybe the first medical + interview combo then ACS and phase 2.  If all you have is pilot I believe they ship you out to ACS ASAP once you’re done your CFAT. The cut off kills most dreams.

Reminder this has been my experience and yours may differ but hopefully this helps sort things out.


----------



## AliTheAce (14 Apr 2018)

Icarus035 said:
			
		

> I apologize and should clarify, I am not an authority on the ACS i’ve Simply done it. I had intelligence officer as a trade as well as pilot and the background stuff is very lengthy for intelligence I believe, so it was done first. in terms of pilot, the thing that matters most is the ACS. With an rumoured fail rate of 75% (i’ve Been told 70-80%) it is usually the cut off for most people. Due to this they want to save time and resources and get it done first.
> 
> All that being said,I was on course with people who had done everything else from other provinces and this was the final stage, along with phase 2 medical. So brooks is probably right it’s case by case but if I had to guess I would say if you have other trades on your list expect to have the background check done then maybe the first medical + interview combo then ACS and phase 2.  If all you have is pilot I believe they ship you out to ACS ASAP once you’re done your CFAT. The cut off kills most dreams.
> 
> Reminder this has been my experience and yours may differ but hopefully this helps sort things out.



Understood, thank you!


----------



## Spc_Cdt (20 Apr 2018)

Jazz said:
			
		

> Hello everyone!
> 
> Not sure if this is the right place to ask..
> 
> ...



I'm playing the same waiting game here....
Every other portion of my file is complete, just waiting on the dates (albeit, I'm re-testing so it could be a little different)... 
I called the CFRC last week and they said, "you should be getting the email soon". 
#hurryupandwait


----------



## Jazz (23 Apr 2018)

Spc_Cdt said:
			
		

> I'm playing the same waiting game here....
> Every other portion of my file is complete, just waiting on the dates (albeit, I'm re-testing so it could be a little different)...
> I called the CFRC last week and they said, "you should be getting the email soon".
> #hurryupandwait



Hey there!  

I ended up calling the recruiting centre, and they said they were behind in booking ACS dates for DEO applicants.  I was nominated for new dates in May, and the following week (April 9th), I received the email nominating me for April 30 - May 1st testing dates.  The dates have been confirmed, I'm just waiting on travel and flight details.

Good luck!  Hope you hear back soon!


----------



## mt.chep (13 Jul 2018)

Also I am six feet, with long legs, I was told at ASC that I would not even fit in the cockpit of a fighter jet. So be warned hopeful topguns. 
Anyway moving on to better opportunity, somewhere in the world, make more money, and not contribute to the bs of the military industrial complex.


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## Roger123 (13 Jul 2018)

mt.chep said:
			
		

> Also I am six feet, with long legs, I was told at ASC that I would not even fit in the cockpit of a fighter jet.



How did you get official word on this? They only take measurements of pilot applicants after they passed ACS for pilot.


----------



## WEng87 (13 Jul 2018)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> How did you get official word on this? They only take measurements of pilot applicants after they passed ACS for pilot.



Exactly,  we have a Pilot here at my unit.  CF-18 and Solo Snowbird.  Definitely north of 6 feet and lanky.  It may have been someone who shouldn't have given you their opinion at the time.


----------



## Carf (16 Jul 2018)

Roger123 said:
			
		

> How did you get official word on this? They only take measurements of pilot applicants after they passed ACS for pilot.



They now (or at least did last year) take measurements for pilots at ACS immediately following testing if you pass. So OP could've gone to ACS, passed, and then told after measurements that he would not be able to fly the hornet.


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## Rip10793 (30 Jul 2018)

To ensure that everyone whom is 6' or taller is not deterred by the above comment, I qualified at ACS and am above 6'. Albiet I qualified and completed ACS over a year ago and the testing/measuring may have changed since then but I would not want all of the "topguns" to avoid chasing their dreams due to a comment.


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Jul 2018)

The Hornet is likely not the issue but the path to the F-18.  The Hawk cockpit is tiny.


----------



## Dailyrcaf123 (31 Jul 2018)

Yeah, I'm 6ft and passed anthro. The issue is that your femurs can't be too long or else if you eject your knees will hit the dash. It's all about your proportions. Some guy in my Aircrew class was 6'2'' and still passed. Like Supersonicmax said, it's not the CF18 that's the issue, it's the tiny Hawk.


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## FSTG (7 Sep 2018)

Is it possible that ACS dates are assigned prioritarely to people with multiple trade choices? I just applied as pilot and been waiting for at least 7-8 months for ACS date confirmation (they are sending me to ACS before my interview/medical). I had to post new dates twice now. The recruiter couldn't help on that topic. I scored high in the CFAT and have an engineering degree with a good gpa (currently finishing my master) so my file shouldn't be that bad (no criminal record/debt/or anything either, though maybe 28 is a bit old for pilot applicant). I know it's a lenghty process and i will surely be patient but i was just wondering.


----------



## 277to081 (7 Sep 2018)

FSTG said:
			
		

> Is it possible that ACS dates are assigned prioritarely to people with multiple trade choices? I just applied as pilot and been waiting for at least 7-8 months for ACS date confirmation (they are sending me to ACS before my interview/medical). I had to post new dates twice now. The recruiter couldn't help on that topic. I scored high in the CFAT and have an engineering degree with a good gpa (currently finishing my master) so my file shouldn't be that bad (no criminal record/debt/or anything either, though maybe 28 is a bit old for pilot applicant). I know it's a lenghty process and i will surely be patient but i was just wondering.



I am not sure about selection priorities but I was 37 when I went through ACS back in 2015; however, I was a UTPNCM applicant (17 years prior service), so that may have been taken into account.


----------



## Roger123 (7 Sep 2018)

FSTG said:
			
		

> Is it possible that ACS dates are assigned prioritarely to people with multiple trade choices?



Dont take this as gospel but from what I have come across on this site, reddit, and interactions with other candidates, those with multiple trade choices will get the medical and interview first from a DEO standpoint. Those with pilot only applications seem to get the ACS first ( due to filtering and high ACS failure rate). RMC candidates have priority it seems during certain times of the year due to meeting university deadlines. When I went through, I had to give dates multiple times because I would give a date list to my recruiter and then 2 weeks later I would get an email stating that ACS was fully scheduled. This happened a second time and when I was about to submit my third set of dates, I got the email stating I was scheduled to write in a weeks time. I wrote among generally RMC candidates while my entry plan was DEO during late Feb. 
    I would stay on top of status updates with your file manager via email both to confirm your list of dates is with the people at ACS and for the odd opportunity where a candidate drops from the course and he has to submit an individual, if that is even a thing. When I went to course, that was my operating theory of why I got loaded during that time of the year.


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## yolotuber (12 Sep 2018)

I applied the 11 august, im already scheduled for ACS , im an ROTP applicant and im 16... do you have any tip ? thank you !


----------



## Titix (16 Sep 2018)

Hi!

Do you think that depending of the results you get at CFAT / Fitness test / Interview, it can speed up or slow down the process, aka your chances to be called earlier for ACS? In other words, will you be called in priority if you crush those tests?

Good luck everyone.


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## yolotuber (19 Sep 2018)

I haven’t done neither interview and physical test but I have a good school transcript and I crushed the CFAT , I’m scheduled for 7-8 november


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## Spc_Cdt (26 Oct 2018)

TL;DR: if at first you don't succeed, pick yourself up and try again... and get ready to wait  

Last year at ACS I only passed for AEC and I was super bummed because it wasn't a trade I wanted. However, I was encouraged to try again next year because I came close to making ACSO. And so I left determined to work hard on my shortcomings and come back for retesting. 

Fast-forward to 18 months later, and I passed for ACSO yesterday!! Even better, I was told that I passed "well above the cutoff for ACSO". Hard work does pay off!

This morning I dropped off my file at the recruitment centre, and talked to the recruiter about next steps. Next up: Aircrew Medical, then Merit List, and hopefully Job Offer. He said things can go really quickly after aircrew medical, seeing as ACSO is under "high priority hiring" right now. Who knows what that really means...

Anyway, good luck to everyone journeying through this lengthy process!!


----------



## yolotuber (10 Nov 2018)

I passed for pilot!


----------



## yolotuber (10 Nov 2018)

Is it long between the acs and the aircrew medical?


----------



## FSTG (18 Nov 2018)

Still waiting here. Been giving 3 sets of dates for ACS and not selected to write the test yet. Been 9 month since my CFAT. Talked to the recruiters and said it's competitive even to get a spot at ACS. I had a very good score in my CFAT but my file overall "score" was lower it seems. Wasn't told why. Maybe it's my age (28) or maybe my grades before university (had poor grades before going in engineering for both my bachelor and master with very high GPA). Or it could be that people with more than 1 trade application have priority. Anyway, hanging on even if it takes two years! Good luck to all applicants.


----------



## mgim92 (18 Nov 2018)

Hey guys I just completed ACS testing a few days ago, passed for all three trades (Pilot, ACSO, and AEC), and thought I should share my experience and some thoughts on them.

First my background: 

RC: Winnipeg
Trade Pref: AEC (chose only AEC)
Applied: Jun 03 2018
First Contact: June 04 2018
CFAT: July 5 2018
Medical Part 1: July 5 2018
Additional medical forms submitted: July 12 2018
*ACS dates confirmed: July 16 2018 (Was not given options, was told my ACS testing was on Nov 15-16)*
Interview: Aug 14 2018
Medical Part 2: Aug 14 2018
*ACS testing: Nov 15-16*

First thing first, I cannot share anything about the content of the test itself, but I can only tell you, that the only thing you can realistically prepare for are mental arithmetic (and be sure to be ready to answer them fast). This is coming from a guy with fresh memory who just wrote the test. The test itself is honestly about testing your aptitude, and it is not meant to be "easy as a result of a good prep". Also, it has been mentioned a numerous times on this thread, but speedtimedistance.info helps. A ton. 

The test will be hard, and you will, 100% think that you failed. But do not worry, everyone (at least everyone at my ACS) thought they did. There will be components of the test where you will, most likely, have guessed all of the questions, and would have had 0 idea of what you just did. *Do not worry, I felt that, and guessed the majority of the questions on 2 tests, and I still passed for all three trades.*

So my point is, *the testing is done over two days, and please, do not give up. After the first day, don't think about how poorly you did (because you didn't) and let that feeling eat away your precious sleep time. Get good amount of sleep, that is the best prep you can ever do. * 

In terms of how many people passed at my ACS? I don't know the exact number so don't quote me on this, but while I was sitting around the lounge waiting for results, most of us shared our results (of course, not all of us did, and they had all the rights not to):
There were 18 of us, and about 11-12 guys shared their results, and here's what I've understood:
5 people passed for all three trades
1 have passed for only ACSO
3 have passed for only AEC

So there's a good pass rate, you may not have gotten what you wanted, but majority of us still passed for, at least one trade.

And lastly, enjoy your time in Trenton! The staff and the people around you writing the test are all nice people and make yourself comfortable and good luck on your tests!!


----------



## FIFO (22 Nov 2018)

FSTG said:
			
		

> Still waiting here. Been giving 3 sets of dates for ACS and not selected to write the test yet. Been 9 month since my CFAT. Talked to the recruiters and said it's competitive even to get a spot at ACS. I had a very good score in my CFAT but my file overall "score" was lower it seems. Wasn't told why. Maybe it's my age (28) or maybe my grades before university (had poor grades before going in engineering for both my bachelor and master with very high GPA). Or it could be that people with more than 1 trade application have priority. Anyway, hanging on even if it takes two years! Good luck to all applicants.



I'm in the same boat. I was given an option to pick three dates for ACS (back in September), and all those dates came and went. I emailed the file manager and was told that because of my entry option (CEOTP), I was low on the priority list for ACS, as they are currently filling ACS spots for ROTP applicants (DEO is also low priority). I was advised to keep my file open until April 1st, as they aren't accepting CEOTP and DEO spots for ACS until then (according to my file manager).

It sucks, but at least I'm not leaping for my cellphone at every "ding" it makes waiting for that email.... but I still will, just in case...  rly:


----------



## FSTG (22 Nov 2018)

FIFO said:
			
		

> I'm in the same boat. I was given an option to pick three dates for ACS (back in September), and all those dates came and went. I emailed the file manager and was told that because of my entry option (CEOTP), I was low on the priority list for ACS, as they are currently filling ACS spots for ROTP applicants (DEO is also low priority). I was advised to keep my file open until April 1st, as they aren't accepting CEOTP and DEO spots for ACS until then (according to my file manager).
> 
> It sucks, but at least I'm not leaping for my cellphone at every "ding" it makes waiting for that email.... but I still will, just in case...  rly:



Keep checking for those dings as you may get a spot before that if there are cancelations haha. Else i've been told we are about 200-250 candidates in line for ACS so it will prolly take a while. Good luck to you and hang in there!


----------



## Tennisball (7 Dec 2018)

I'm applying as DEO Pilot and I'm a bit concerned about how my interview went. There were very few questions asked of me and I felt like it was more of a yes/no questionnaire than anything. 

I didn't get asked to talk about the job very much or the training involved. Everything that was asked I answered well, but I'm a bit concerned and I guess unsatisfied because I was expecting the interview to go much more in depth into job details, training details, and leadership + teamwork skills. I'm a bit confused because, as I'm aware, the Pilot trade is very competitive and the interview did not feel "competitive" at all. I had a lot more to say about the position but didn't talk about it because I wasn't asked (e.g. "where will you be training?").

How was the interviewer able to determine my eligibility for the position with so few questions asked?

Should I be concerned at all? Some have told me that the interview doesn't have a huge impact and is more of pass/fail; is it? Others have told me that a good interview helps, but is less impactful because air crew trades depend more on ACS scores for competition listing.

That said, do ACS scores contribute to your scoring as a candidate on the competition list? I already completed ACS and qualified with strong scores for the Pilot trade, maybe that had some impact on the ease of my interview?

In the end, the interviewer said that he would recommend me for Pilot as soon as all my medical and various checks were done but I wanted to see if anyone else, especially pilots, had similar interviews.

I am probably overthinking this but any input would be much appreciated.


----------



## BurmaShave (8 Dec 2018)

Pilot application was, in my experience, largely pass-fail. If you passed ACS, and didn't red flag medical, history or the interview, you were in. The interview was, yeah, a yes-no rubber stamp.

If you rocked ACS, I wouldn't worry. Save that for training, cause you'll be there soon enough.


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## Forsan (8 Dec 2018)

My experience was pretty similar, the interview seemed more about collecting data that could be put into a scoring matrix (work/volunteer experience, education, etc.). ACS seems like it plays a bigger role in assessing capacity for pilot training. If you ask at the recruiting centre they should be able to give you an idea of how competitive your file is overall, though not a specific ranking.

Best of luck!


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## yolotuber (9 Dec 2018)

I also had a very short interview they only asked me 3 questions.... I passssed ACS for all trade on the 7/8 november only 2 on 13 passed for pilot. For people who are interested i heard that the 28 27 november 4 on 22 passed for pilot . I'm now waiting for toronto.. Does anybody knows what happens there? Also, im only 16 and im for ROTP do you think it gives me less chance ti get selected? Thank you and great process all!


----------



## Tennisball (9 Dec 2018)

yolotuber said:
			
		

> I also had a very short interview they only asked me 3 questions.... I passssed ACS for all trade on the 7/8 november only 2 on 13 passed for pilot. For people who are interested i heard that the 28 27 november 4 on 22 passed for pilot . I'm now waiting for toronto.. Does anybody knows what happens there? Also, im only 16 and im for ROTP do you think it gives me less chance ti get selected? Thank you and great process all!



There are intake unmbers for both ROTP and DEO, so you don't have a less chance for ROTP unless they are taking less ROTP during a fiscal year. I think this year they are taking a few more ROTP than DEO pilots but my MCC told me there is only one slot left for DEO, so there might not be that many left for ROTP either.

https://army.ca/forums/threads/127069.0
https://army.ca/forums/threads/127070.0

Here are the intake lists from the beginning of this fiscal year for both DEO and ROTP.


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## yolotuber (9 Dec 2018)

How they can have fulled the ROTP positions if they havent give any job offer for rotp yet?
I think im the only one for 1st year rotp who passed acs


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## yolotuber (9 Dec 2018)

Thank you very much for the intakes number


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## Tennisball (9 Dec 2018)

yolotuber said:
			
		

> How they can have fulled the ROTP positions if they havent give any job offer for rotp yet?
> I think im the only one for 1st year rotp who passed acs



I'm not sure when ROTP offers usually go out. Is it the same time that regular university offers go out in Feb.? If it is then you're still good to go.

Are you planning on graduating high school this year and going to RMC in Sept. 2019?

I only assumed that they might be taken already because we are 3/4 through the fiscal year.


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## yolotuber (10 Dec 2018)

Yes this is exactly that, i'm planning my application in order to start my BMOQ un july 2019.


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## yolotuber (10 Dec 2018)

I heard the offers are given in may.


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## Spc_Cdt (11 Dec 2018)

Update: I finally made it on the competition list! Hurray! ;D
It's been a long 2 years... 

Any idea of how quickly they send out offers?


----------



## yolotuber (11 Dec 2018)

Congrats! For what entry program are you if you are deo i heard its as soon as possible


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## Spc_Cdt (11 Dec 2018)

yolotuber said:
			
		

> Congrats! For what entry program are you if you are deo i heard its as soon as possible



Thanks!! I'm DEO. It would be the best Christmas gift EVER to get a letter of offer.


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## Mozartkart (11 Dec 2018)

Just out of curiosity, what do people mean when they scored well or above average on the ACS? And I also find it funny that the ACS in terms of your application ranking is pass fail but your aptitude test is weighted by score.


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## Tennisball (11 Dec 2018)

Spc_Cdt said:
			
		

> Update: I finally made it on the competition list! Hurray! ;D
> It's been a long 2 years...
> 
> Any idea of how quickly they send out offers?



1 slot left this year for DEO Pilot, probably have to wait til at least April.


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## Spc_Cdt (11 Dec 2018)

Tennisball said:
			
		

> 1 slot left this year for DEO Pilot, probably have to wait til at least April.



Yeah but I'm asking about DEO ACSO... that's what I'm on the competition list for.
Last I heard (in October) there were 40 positions open.


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## Spc_Cdt (11 Dec 2018)

Mozartkart said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, what do people mean when they scored well or above average on the ACS? And I also find it funny that the ACS in terms of your application ranking is pass fail but your aptitude test is weighted by score.



TLDR: who knows?

At ACS they sit you down like 10min after you're done the testing and tell you how well you did. In my case the first time at ACS they said "You passed the requirement for AEC but not the other two trades -- however you nearly made the cut for ACSO so we'd recommend you try again next year". Then they gave me a sheet that breaks down each section of the test, and told me where I scored strongest and where I need improvement (they even highlighted it). 

The second time at ACS, they said "You wanted ACSO right? Well you passed, and this time well above the requirement" and handed me the same sheet. Note I didn't make Pilot, once again (and I was too excited about the ACSO news to ask why no Pilot... sigh).

Although I never got the actual numbers with regards to my scores in each section, "passing well above requirements" indicates to me that there is a sort of ranking for ACS. In fact, they tell you so at ACS during the Realistic Job Preview presentation: "you better try your damnest cuz even if you do well, someone can rank better than you and get the job offer instead of you".  

That being said, when I asked the recruiter upon returning from ACS, he told me that there is no ACS ranking -- in fact, they don't have any info on their end except if you passed or failed. He emphasized that for the competition list, the selection board looks at your application as a whole: CFAT, TSE, ACS, medical, interview, reliability, references, and academic transcripts. That is, the whole package of "you".

So I'm a bit confused, but in the end it doesn't really matter as long as you make it on the list. It just might take a while to get the job offer. But after 2 years into the application process, I guess another few months is nothing...


----------



## yolotuber (11 Dec 2018)

You all seem trigger because i gave free info from the RAF , so i delete it and search by yourself now


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## Tennisball (11 Dec 2018)

yolotuber said:
			
		

> this is the shart they use to evaluate you. you need to have a nice overall + pass on each sections
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow where’d you find this?


----------



## Tennisball (12 Dec 2018)

Spc_Cdt said:
			
		

> TLDR: who knows?
> 
> At ACS they sit you down like 10min after you're done the testing and tell you how well you did. In my case the first time at ACS they said "You passed the requirement for AEC but not the other two trades -- however you nearly made the cut for ACSO so we'd recommend you try again next year". Then they gave me a sheet that breaks down each section of the test, and told me where I scored strongest and where I need improvement (they even highlighted it).
> 
> ...



There is definitely a cut off core on the ACS testing and they definitely keep track of the raw scores for everyone. When they tell you that you did well above the requirements it means you scored high above the cut off point for ACSO, but not high enough to make the cut off for Pilot.

Based on what I've read on the forums from an insider (Buck_HRA), ACS scores do in fact count into your total scoring on the competition list. Higher your score, better your ranking.

You are probably good for ACSO though. From what I heard at ACS they are in high demand. In fact they tried to convince a lot of us Pilot candidates who passed to go for ACSO.


----------



## Spc_Cdt (12 Dec 2018)

Thanks for the great info you guys!!

@Yolotuber: any chance you got that nifty chart for ACSO? 

It would be interesting to compare it with the Pilot chart you posted... cuz obviously now I'm curious. I was told I scored exceptionally high for Systems Logic Test, above average for Trace Test 1 and CLAN, and lowest (though passing) was Airborne Numerical. Leaves me wondering where I failed to pass for Pilot... 

I mean, it's all good, ACSO is more my jam anyway. Just curious is all.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (12 Dec 2018)

I'm assuming it's cool to share all those charts and stuff on here, and no one is mistakenly passing on ACS info that shouldn't available?  I thought each person going thru had to agree to "not talk about fight club ACS"...so just checking to make sure that stuff isn't under that umbrella.   8)

* edit to emphasis intent


----------



## Spc_Cdt (12 Dec 2018)

Tennisball said:
			
		

> Wow where’d you find this?



I found it -- see attached
It's based on the RAF selection process (which is what ours is based on)
Sauce: https://rafcbat.wordpress.com/results-and-scores/

Assuming that WSO = ACSO, then it would seem that Instrument Comprehension was my Achille's Heel and/or my overall score didn't get to Pilot standards. 
Fascinating.


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## Spc_Cdt (12 Dec 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I'm assuming it's cool to share all those charts and stuff on here, and no one is mistakenly passing on ACS info that shouldn't available?  I thought each person going thru had to agree to "not talk about fight club ACS"...so just checking to make sure that stuff isn't under that umbrella.   8)



Your assumption is correct, to a certain extent: the info I'm passing along is what can readily be found online. I am not divulging any specific parts of the test, which would be in breach of the non-disclosure agreement.


----------



## yolotuber (12 Dec 2018)

THATS IT, people seems to be triggered that i share info that can be found online


----------



## garb811 (12 Dec 2018)

yolotuber said:
			
		

> THATS IT, people seems to be triggered that i share info that can be found online


People are "triggered" because you simply posted what you held out to be information from our testing and selection process without further explanation.  Stating where you found it, along with the fact that it is actually from the RAF and not from us, would have given two critical pieces of information: 1) there hasn't been a breach of our testing and selection process and 2) this may not actually be what our testing and selection actually is, and life would have carried on.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (12 Dec 2018)

:Tin-Foil-Hat:  Relax.  It was just something 'new' to this thread, so I thought I'd ask.  Better safe than sorry.


----------



## m9322 (13 Dec 2018)

How long after ACS is the interview normally?

I wrote my CFAT right at the end of August. A few days ago I got my first email about choosing dates to be nominated for training, and replied within 12 hours (had to check my calendar with someone I couldn't contact until the evening.) The next morning, I got another email saying I could go for Jan. 14-15 if I was available, and within 15 minutes of replying, got another saying I was accepted to go to ACS (less than 24  hours after that initial email... I was really lucky.) 

I want to have a general idea of where interviews might fall, because January / early February is a really busy time. Of course I'll go as soon as I can, but a ballpark figure would be great


----------



## Xylric (13 Dec 2018)

It's funny. With my file being closed due to medical ineligibility, I find that my only real regret is that I'm unlikely to ever know how I would've done with ACS...

I choose to be amused by this fact.


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## Tennisball (13 Dec 2018)

m9322 said:
			
		

> How long after ACS is the interview normally?
> 
> I wrote my CFAT right at the end of August. A few days ago I got my first email about choosing dates to be nominated for training, and replied within 12 hours (had to check my calendar with someone I couldn't contact until the evening.) The next morning, I got another email saying I could go for Jan. 14-15 if I was available, and within 15 minutes of replying, got another saying I was accepted to go to ACS (less than 24  hours after that initial email... I was really lucky.)
> 
> I want to have a general idea of where interviews might fall, because January / early February is a really busy time. Of course I'll go as soon as I can, but a ballpark figure would be great



After I passed ACS they called me the same week I returned from Trenton to book my interview. The interview itself was a couple weeks later. Interview is really straight forward, you can handle it during busy periods.


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## AliTheAce (14 Dec 2018)

Well, I'm finally back guys. After literal months of waiting and practicing, I'm finally booked to go to ACS! I'm scheduled for the 16th-17th of January and I'll be arriving there approximately 7:30 pm the evening before the test.


Hopefully it's enough time to de-stress and recover. 


I've gotten lightning fast at basic arithmetic, using Alarmy with math problems to wake me up and consistently get 8-10/10 correct within 10-20 seconds on speeddistancetime.info. Done flying in flight sims, and earned my glider pilot license.

Any tips for relaxing and actually getting enough sleep the night before the test? I'm one of those people who if I'm excited, I wont be able to fall asleep. So what can I do to make sure I'm well rested and in tip-top shape mentally?


Hopefully I can pass for Pilot and put this behind me once and for all. It has haunted me for way too long


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## CAVU (14 Dec 2018)

yolotuber said:
			
		

> I passed for pilot!


Firstly, congrats!!! That is so amazing! I would love to be in your shoes right now 

I passed my CFAT and scored for my chosen RCAF trades. I have ACS coming up and I've been working on my speed (using, for ex. http://www.speeddistancetime.info/test, youtube videos, my old ground school workbooks, Khan Academy, etc...) but I still don't feel confident/prepared that my mental math will be fast and accurate enough to score well. In my day-to-day, I've relied so heavily on calculators and working things out on paper that I am not as fast as I would like to be to feel "ready". Should I request to reschedule for ACS? What would be the consequence of cancelling my ACS attendance?


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## Spc_Cdt (14 Dec 2018)

m9322 said:
			
		

> How long after ACS is the interview normally?



I did the interview before going to ACS. I think it can vary a lot.


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## Spc_Cdt (14 Dec 2018)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Any tips for relaxing and actually getting enough sleep the night before the test? I'm one of those people who if I'm excited, I wont be able to fall asleep. So what can I do to make sure I'm well rested and in tip-top shape mentally?



Good job on getting ready! It may sound stupid and excessive, but I brought everything along with me that I knew would let me relax: laptop with movies (there's no wifi), my Switch, some comfort snacks and beverages, yoga mat, bubbles to take a bath, gym clothes to go run it off. Whatever works for you, bring it/ do it. And most importantly, figure out how to "relax and reset" in between tests... like meditate, go for a walk etc. Work on those strategies. 

Good luck!


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## m9322 (15 Dec 2018)

Tennisball said:
			
		

> After I passed ACS they called me the same week I returned from Trenton to book my interview. The interview itself was a couple weeks later. Interview is really straight forward, you can handle it during busy periods.



Thanks! Good to know - I've been getting super nervous - but equally excited - about everything started to move so quickly.


----------



## AliTheAce (16 Dec 2018)

m9322 said:
			
		

> Thanks! Good to know - I've been getting super nervous - but equally excited - about everything started to move so quickly.



Same scenario as you! I was given 5 dates to choose from, and picked 3. 30 minutes later I got an email saying I was selected for the 16-17th of January.

Hope to see you there!


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## Xylric (16 Dec 2018)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> Same scenario as you! I was given 5 dates to choose from, and picked 3. 30 minutes later I got an email saying I was selected for the 16-17th of January.
> 
> Hope to see you there!



I got the e-mail, picked the dates, was sent an e-mail saying I needed to pick alternate dates, and was then sent an e-mail about my interview (which led to my medical) - the logic being that it would make no sense to send me for ACS if (as did eventually occur) i was not eligible for medical reasons. As much as I understand why things panned out this way, I'm a sufficiently curious person that my only real regret is that I'll likely never know how I would've done on ACS.


----------



## yolotuber (17 Dec 2018)

I got scheduled for CSPN 2 (medical toronto) ! Things are moving fast!


----------



## hiking (6 Jan 2019)

I have passed ACS for pilot this summer and i came back from Toronto medical part II  early december. I have been told that everything looked fine there.  I know there is only one spot left for DEO until april,  i really wish i'll make it. 

I really hope this is going to work. Im guessing it could go really fast from now on. 

Good luck to all of you.


----------



## yolotuber (6 Jan 2019)

I wish to you all the best! Give us news!

I'm heading to toronto medical for pilot the 31 january, how it is going there ?I m rotp applicant


----------



## hiking (7 Jan 2019)

yolotuber said:
			
		

> I wish to you all the best! Give us news!
> 
> I'm heading to toronto medical for pilot the 31 january, how it is going there ?I m rotp applicant



From my experience it was pretty quick. There were 3 of us and we were done my lunch time. They are doing some medical testing and at the end you have a meeting with a flight surgeon and you go over your medical history. They can’t give you your air factor because some specialist have to check your file afterwards.

Good Luck with your process.


----------



## Titix (14 Jan 2019)

Hi everyone,

I'm scheduled to go to ACS and I really want to prepare to nail those tests. I had a good look at the test screenshots displayed on the Candidate Guide webpage and it seems like practice for those sort of tests could include :

- Mental math;
- Mental math applied to speed / distance / time / fuel calculation;
- Angles, Degrees and Bearing calculation;
- Problem solving;
- Instrument comprehension test;

I can find ways to work on this by myself but what would be the best exercices to practice on spatial integration, tracking, short-term memory test and any other tests you can find on the webpage? Mostly it says : "you don't have to prepare for this test" but I feel confident I'll perform better if I find the right exercices! 

Any idea of good exercices? Or ideally interactive websites designed to help aircrew or math student practice? 
Thanks!


----------



## Loachman (15 Jan 2019)

The best first thing to study would be this thread, into which your question was merged, if you've not already begun.

There is a buttload of info here on this fine Site, ripe for your picking. Start reading through older pertinent threads. You'll likely find answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.


----------



## yolotuber (15 Jan 2019)

Speeddistancetime.com , cbat app on ios and lumosity


----------



## m9322 (15 Jan 2019)

I just completed aircrew selection, and I passed for pilot, AEC, and ACSO. They also told me that in 6/7 categories, I was above average for pilot. 
The best things to review beforehand would just be mental math, really. Nobody is kidding or trying to fool you when they say it really isn’t something you can prep for.


----------



## yolotuber (15 Jan 2019)

You are applying rotp or seneca or deo?


----------



## hiking (22 Jan 2019)

Currently applying for pilot DEO, just got told that my medical was approved. Btw I was sent to Toronto late november. Haven’t been told i was on the competition list yet but they told me an offer would be coming my way as soon as a position open.

Wish me luck.


----------



## AliTheAce (23 Jan 2019)

Came back from ACS on the 17th of January.

Failed for Pilot unfortunately by the smallest margin possible, on the symbolic reasoning category, specifically the Airborne Numerical Test. Was so incredibly close to passing it.

And that category I failed was the same for ACSO so I didn't get it. Only passed for AEC.

I was told to come back next year and redo it so I will definitely be doing that after I work on my weak points. 

The test is incredibly demanding and my preparation for mental math is the only thing that helped, besides maybe some flight sims for the hand eye coordination. 

Hope I can pass it in January 2020!


----------



## jacksouth (29 Jan 2019)

In response to the original poster (and you above @AliTheAce), I wanted to provide some info that helped me on the numerical tests, which I always found hard, especially the speed aspect of the tests. 

I also used JobTestPrep for practice and it was useful. The problem was that it was fairly expensive and at the time I couldn't really afford additional expenses like this. 

If you look around, there are a bunch of free tests online that you can use to practice and are as good as JTP. For me, the best one was PRT (PracticeReasoningTests). Their free numerical practice test is here: https://practicereasoningtests.com/practice-numerical-test.

Anyway good luck to anyone taking these tests. They're tough, but you can practice and improve, it's possible!


----------



## yolotuber (31 Jan 2019)

Hi all,

I applied in august during glider licence with cadet and now I have officialy finished the process as I'm back frome CFEME toronto. I'm 17 and applying ROTP in aerospace ingeneering ,I will give you updates. I'm kind of worried because they take only 26 pilot for ROTP... I wish luck and the best to all of you.


----------



## AliTheAce (2 Feb 2019)

Thanks Jack! Really appreciate it. Will make sure to get lots of practice with those this time.


----------



## yolotuber (23 Mar 2019)

recieved air factor 1 after 1 month and a half of wait.


----------



## FallOfRome11 (18 May 2019)

Hey guys,

I just passed ASC for pilot recently. I have my Air Factor medical component coming up in June.
Question - can somebody explain in detail what to expect from my air factor medical in Toronto? Is it only physical tests? Or do they question you on mental health stuff too? 

The reason I ask is because I was denied from entry in 2013 due to mental health issues I had as a kid / early teen. I’ve since reapplied and been reassessed and the RMO made me medically fit. I’ve been able to progress quite far as a result of that! 

So now I’m worried that the issue above may affect my air factor too. If anybody can provide any knowledge / insight, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


----------



## MotherGoose (29 May 2019)

Hey everyone! I just finished ACS. I didn't qualify for pilot, but I did qualify for ACSO. I'm really happy with that. Here's my advice. 
1)Read this thread. Lot's of great tips.

2)The testing room is kept very cool. Bring something like a sweater (layers), which can be removed. Once the testing starts, you'll probably find yourself sweating.

3)Relax! The tests are extremely hard and stressful; the resulting anxiety and stress will affect your performance. Practice relaxation exercises. Find a light fragrance/essential oil (ACS has a scent free policy, so make sure it's light and agreeable, e.g. lavender, peppermint, sandalwood...) and incorporate it into deep breathing, meditation, and relaxation exercises. Wear the fragrance on your wrists during testing, take a whiff and some deep breaths. If you practiced enough, you'll have conditioned your mind and body to relax. This will take the edge off your nerves. When conditioning for relaxation, you can add other things and create a ritual. It could be tapping your chin or the tip of your nose, smiling, singing a song in your head, whatever feels right to you.

4)When studying for the test (mental arithmetic, angle familiarization, etc.), stay relaxed and use the same fragrance. This will help with information recall during the test. 

5)Mental arithmetic is very important. Make sure you know your multiplication facts. I watched a lot of tecmath on Youtube; it's got some great tips and tricks. They're very well explained, and the guy's voice is very soothing, lol. You can practice mental arithmetic AND memory easily in your day to day life. Just look for numbers and put them together: the time, the volume of your shampoo bottle, the total of your groceries, anything! You can add, subtract, multiply, divide. Whatever you want, but no pen and paper. Do it on the fly, while attending to whatever you are doing (multitasking!). Throughout your day and when you find a new number, try to remember where you were at. If you forgot, start over.

6)Each test is preceded by instructions and practice questions. The instructions are not timed (good time to sniff and breathe). The practice questions are timed. You can go over the instructions and practice questions more than once. DO IT! Familiarize yourself with the necessary keys on the keyboard and any sensory/motor equipment required. 

I think that's it for now... I'll post again if anything else comes to mind.


----------



## yolotuber (29 May 2019)

going BMOQ for pilot rotp july 5. swearing in 25 june.


there is some good website to read before going there(trenton)
GO read : http://www.fledglingflyer.com/

download CBAT application ( i cant tell you why but you will understand)

go on Speed distance time website. 

and as mentionned above. play with number every days.

every one can do it guys. 

practice makeS perfect - col chris hadfield


----------



## Rebus (5 Jun 2019)

FallOfRome11 said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> 
> I just passed ASC for pilot recently. I have my Air Factor medical component coming up in June.
> Question - can somebody explain in detail what to expect from my air factor medical in Toronto? Is it only physical tests? Or do they question you on mental health stuff too?
> ...



All the tests they do are physical. Lung function test, heart ultrasound, eye exam, then you go over the results with the flight doctor and they ask you questions about everything, similar to the basic medical. I'm unsure about mental health, but I'm sure it'll come up.


----------



## BlueFalcon109 (27 Sep 2019)

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> They don't let you proceed with Aircrew selections until they do your background checks?



That's not true. After writing my CFAT in July, 2019, the next and only step I have completed is the ASC. After successfully qualifying for ACSO & AEC, I called my recruitment detachment to check on the status of my background/security check and it is still incomplete. The detachment told me not to worry and that they're stilling moving ahead with the other components such as the formal interview and medical while they wait on the background check. 

I reckon the background check processing is irrelevant to the rest of the steps of the application process to prevent a bottleneck?


----------



## lid (27 Sep 2019)

BlueFalcon109 said:
			
		

> That's not true. After writing my CFAT in July, 2019, the next and only step I have completed is the ASC. After successfully qualifying for ACSO & AEC, I called my recruitment detachment to check on the status of my background/security check and it is still incomplete. The detachment told me not to worry and that they're stilling moving ahead with the other components such as the formal interview and medical while they wait on the background check.
> 
> I reckon the background check processing is irrelevant to the rest of the steps of the application process to prevent a bottleneck?



No. Processing time depends on which CFRC you apply. Toronto is completely liner, you must complete background check to start queue ACS (took me 14 months waiting from CFAT to ACS), after ACS to queue for interview and medical (another 8 months to finish medical). They do not process your file unless last step is completed, so entire process easily take more than 2 years, 3 years also very common.
Some CFRC do multi-tasking, even allow finish air-medical before ACS, so entire process to competition list only 6 month.

In general, big cities (more applicants vs less file managers) will have longer processing time (evidence that ottawa also slower), small towns are faster. 3 month to ACS is not the fastest one, but way faster than slowest.


----------



## BlueFalcon109 (30 Sep 2019)

lid said:
			
		

> No. Processing time depends on which CFRC you apply. Toronto is completely liner, you must complete background check to start queue ACS (took me 14 months waiting from CFAT to ACS), after ACS to queue for interview and medical (another 8 months to finish medical). They do not process your file unless last step is completed, so entire process easily take more than 2 years, 3 years also very common.
> Some CFRC do multi-tasking, even allow finish air-medical before ACS, so entire process to competition list only 6 month.
> 
> In general, big cities (more applicants vs less file managers) will have longer processing time (evidence that ottawa also slower), small towns are faster. 3 month to ACS is not the fastest one, but way faster than slowest.



Is that right? Wow, I'm glad I switched my CFRC when it defaulted to Toronto when I first applied. Having to wait 14 months between the CFAT and ACS is a ridiculously long time. I'm super fortunate that so far (fingers crossed) my application has been moving quickly. It literally took exactly two months from me writing my CFAT to me finishing ACS.


----------



## r.k89 (30 Sep 2019)

lid said:
			
		

> No. Processing time depends on which CFRC you apply. Toronto is completely liner, you must complete background check to start queue ACS (took me 14 months waiting from CFAT to ACS), after ACS to queue for interview and medical (another 8 months to finish medical). They do not process your file unless last step is completed, so entire process easily take more than 2 years, 3 years also very common.
> Some CFRC do multi-tasking, even allow finish air-medical before ACS, so entire process to competition list only 6 month.
> 
> In general, big cities (more applicants vs less file managers) will have longer processing time (evidence that ottawa also slower), small towns are faster. 3 month to ACS is not the fastest one, but way faster than slowest.



I applied in Toronto and had my interview and medical before  ACS. Not sure about background, but I think it was still in process. That said I had one trade as my choice not in Airforce. So it took me less than 2 month after Cfat for interview and medical and then I was booked for ACS.


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## Drallib (25 Dec 2019)

Hey everyone! Awesome thread with great info. I just applied this year for CEOTP and passed the CFAST in Trenton on Nov 13-14, and just did my medical at CFEME on Dec 11. Not sure if anyone answered previous questions but they check your eyes, hearing, your heart, and lungs. There’s a questionnaire as well when you get there. Nothing serious, but it’s all stuff out of your control. It’s either your body is fit or it isn’t.

My interview went well too. “Suitable” they said. So now I wait to hear if I get an offer in late April / early May. Not sure how many CEOTP applicants will be taken...


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## Laooooo (29 Jan 2020)

Drallib said:
			
		

> Hey everyone! Awesome thread with great info. I just applied this year for CEOTP and passed the CFAST in Trenton on Nov 13-14, and just did my medical at CFEME on Dec 11. Not sure if anyone answered previous questions but they check your eyes, hearing, your heart, and lungs. There’s a questionnaire as well when you get there. Nothing serious, but it’s all stuff out of your control. It’s either your body is fit or it isn’t.
> 
> My interview went well too. “Suitable” they said. So now I wait to hear if I get an offer in late April / early May. Not sure how many CEOTP applicants will be taken...



Is the interview pretty similar to interviews done for jobs in the private sector? Is it just to see if you’d be personable? 

Thanks


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## Drallib (30 Jan 2020)

Laooooo said:
			
		

> Is the interview pretty similar to interviews done for jobs in the private sector? Is it just to see if you’d be personable?
> 
> Thanks



I don't know what they're looking for exactly, but just make sure you know the trade! Also, it's an officer trade, so you can think of questions they may ask for that reason. I won't say what they asked because that would give an unfair advantage (and they said not to) but it's a relaxed setting and just a chat to see if you're suitable or not.


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## ik1970 (10 Mar 2020)

Odd question,  I'm hoping someone has some insight. First time poster so be gentle

My daughter was up for aircrew selection in November, and just failed one of the tests at Trenton (one point short in one of seven tests). She has since been accepted into RMC for 2020 under Aerospace Engineer, but over the weekend we were informed that the ACS results had been "re-evaluated", and she is now considered to have passed for Pilot, and will need to complete the aircrew physical and anthropomorphic stuff.

My question is assuming she passes the physical what then are her chances of selection?  It seems to me that there cant have been enough qualified candidates under the initial criteria, but if they have opened that door a bit wider is there an additional selection process beyond the Trenton testing to clear now too?  Is the fact that she was already offered a place at RMC in February any indication that she is likely to achieve her "lifelong" (LOL, shes 17) ambition to fly with the Canadian Forces?

I guess all will become clear with the passage of time, but as her Dad, I am trying to reign in expectations a bit if I have to, while at the same time I dont want to piss on her parade!

Thanks


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## yolotuber (10 Mar 2020)

Hello sir,
I'm a young cadet at CMR st-jean who passed the same process as your daughter last year  and got a pilot slot so i'll base my answer on personnal experience.

The Armed forces only take a specific amount for pilot ROTP about 15 to 30 depending on the years. Since very few applicants are passing ACS ( congrats to her! ) if she has good marks at school, no matter what her physical condition is, she will get a slot. The physical thing you are talking about is more Health-related there is no physical fitness involved. If she is not fit, shw will have plenty of fun waking up a 5h30 am to train on supp pt  Actually with me at CMR we are about 300 and i know no one who passed for passed for pilot and who is healty that havent been selected. I recieved my answer in April 2019.

Good luck to her !


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## ik1970 (11 Mar 2020)

Ct155hawk said:
			
		

> Hello sir,
> I'm a young cadet at CMR st-jean who passed the same process as your daughter last year  and got a pilot slot so i'll base my answer on personnal experience.
> 
> The Armed forces only take a specific amount for pilot ROTP about 15 to 30 depending on the years. Since very few applicants are passing ACS ( congrats to her! ) if she has good marks at school, no matter what her physical condition is, she will get a slot. The physical thing you are talking about is more Health-related there is no physical fitness involved. If she is not fit, shw will have plenty of fun waking up a 5h30 am to train on supp pt  Actually with me at CMR we are about 300 and i know no one who passed for passed for pilot and who is healty that havent been selected. I recieved my answer in April 2019.
> ...



Thanks for the feedback, that sounds like grounds for cautious optimism.   Now our next hurdle is from the US Immigration people!  We are living in the US as temporary NAFTA residents, so she is a "NAFTA Dependent" based on my Employment here on a "TN" visa.  But the crap in the sandwich is that we have just done all the paperwork for changing to Permanent Status after having to wait 90 days since last coming back in from Canada after the Interview and selection week in November.  We figures she would not be  leaving the country till July so any travel restrictions would not be a problem while we switch Visa class.  Now though if she leaves the country to do the medical before we get "advanced parole" and permission to travel, when she come back to the US to finish school they might not let her back in!  My "TN" visa status is no longer applicable (due to the desire to become a permanent resident) so she no longer has a NAFTA person to be dependent on.  Hopefully the company lawyers can fix this, or else we postpone the medicals as long as we can and hope we get advanced parole in time.   

Our other "first world" problem is she was awarded a prestigious USAF RJOTC private pilot scholarship for this summer, but with basic training starting in mid/late July she might have to pass it up as there isnt an 8 week period between then and her high school graduation date.  Which would be a metaphorical kick in the nuts, albeit a blow that would be softened by being accepted into the CF pilot training program!


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## Loachman (12 Mar 2020)

It's a long (excessively long) path to achieving one's Wings these days, due to atrocious gaps between courses, including gaps between Wings graduation and a slot at an Operational Training Unit (OTU).

It's also a lot of hard work.

And there is no guarantee of success at any stage.

It is, however, more than worth the effort.

Your daughter should be exploring the relevant threads on this Site herself, as well. There is a ton of useful information and advice here, and she may as well begin her studies now.

There is no value in worrying about her chances of selection or successful completion. The statistics are meaningless for predicting those things for individuals. She will either meet the required standards or she will not, be competitive enough or not (and that is what she can influence the most at this point), have the required raw talent and ability or not, be able to learn at the required rate and perform to the required high standard or not, and be hungry enough for those Wings to do the required work or not.

I wish her the best.

Keep us updated, please.


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## yolotuber (7 Apr 2020)

Good luck with the pursuit of the process, with everything going on right now it might be a bit stressful. 
I also had to choose between a free ppl and postponing my entry at RMC or don't miss the change and just go at 17 yo, so I cant relate to her for that. 

Keep us updated !


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## ik1970 (17 Apr 2020)

JoNugget said:
			
		

> Good luck with the pursuit of the process, with everything going on right now it might be a bit stressful.
> I also had to choose between a free ppl and postponing my entry at RMC or don't miss the change and just go at 17 yo, so I cant relate to her for that.
> 
> Keep us updated !


Thanks, Well the PPL thing has taken care of itself as the USAF JROTC has cancelled due to Covid.   
We are still wondering if the Canadian Forces are proceeding with aircrew medicals under the circumstances.  Not getting any response to email enquiries from the OUTCAN team, but its possible I suppose that they really dont know what the situation is likely to be at the end of May when she is scheduled.  My greencard application is going nowhere fast under the lockdown, so the whole area of travel is a nightmare between that and the quarantine requirements, so Im hoping the medical can be postponed.


----------



## mt.chep (26 Apr 2020)

Dailyrcaf123 said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'm 6ft and passed anthro. The issue is that your femurs can't be too long or else if you eject your knees will hit the dash. It's all about your proportions. Some guy in my Aircrew class was 6'2'' and still passed. Like Supersonicmax said, it's not the CF18 that's the issue, it's the tiny Hawk.



Hi y’all,

Responding to a comment to my post from a few years ago, this comment is correct.
My femurs are too long to fit in the Hawk, not the CF-18. This was told to me at the selection centre when my results were displayed to me by a Captain.
Apologies for seeming discouraging to anyone who may have felt discouraged. 
Of course in the air force there are other pilot jobs that don’t involve training in the hawk, such as for helicopters. As well, everyone gets three attempts. 
Nonetheless I’m pursuing a career in commercial aviation now. So, the selection course was still worthwhile, because in hindsight it sparked my passion for my career path. 

Kind regards.


----------



## yolotuber (26 Apr 2020)

Hello, 

Thank you for giving for giving this info, I’m 6 ft 2 and I think my femur might be a problem, is the option to do enjjpt on the t 38 talon might be a possibility ? 

Thanks 
Jo


----------



## ik1970 (8 Jun 2020)

By way of an update, the extra medical (such as it was) was done via video conferencing and they will do the biometric stuff at a later date once shes up in Kingston.  Bottom line is my daughter was offered a Pilot Officer spot, which she has accepted.  So for now she's sitting in South Carolina wondering when she will have to show up at St Jean and how we will deal with the 14 day quarantine requirements when the time comes.  I guess there are many people in the same position waiting for the call to go as the Forces decide how to deal with Covid.   Anyway, all's well that ends well,  the kid done good, and good luck to her in the many steps to come!


			
				ik1970 said:
			
		

> Thanks, Well the PPL thing has taken care of itself as the USAF JROTC has cancelled due to Covid.
> We are still wondering if the Canadian Forces are proceeding with aircrew medicals under the circumstances.  Not getting any response to email enquiries from the OUTCAN team, but its possible I suppose that they really dont know what the situation is likely to be at the end of May when she is scheduled.  My greencard application is going nowhere fast under the lockdown, so the whole area of travel is a nightmare between that and the quarantine requirements, so Im hoping the medical can be postponed.


----------



## yolotuber (8 Jun 2020)

First of all, Congrats to you daughter ! Getting a pilot slot in rcaf is a lifetime success.
I just had a town hall with cmr saint jean, we got the info that preps might come in mid august in order to do a longer First year orientation program because they will not have done any military training so we will need time to adapt them to military life. They also said that all officers cadet will be in quarantined in the college for 2 weeks and that the rooms will most likely be 1 or 2 instead of 3. If there is no cases of covid 19  for upcoming weeks , cmr will start to run as normal.

Have a good summer,
jo


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## junker2122 (26 Jan 2021)

Hi to all,

I want to prepare for my Aircrew Selection test that would be in a few months (march 2021). I don't have a date yet but I want to be ready. Its my second time taking the test and I don't want to fail. I train on CBAT and Lumosity 1h30 every day. If you have any advice, please provide.

Thank you so much.


----------



## Spc_Cdt (26 Jan 2021)

Hey Junker,
I also had to take it twice to pass. And I also used Lumosity (those raindrops amirite) plus other apps for mental maths, as well as some gaming cuz they told me I was low on spatial stuff. You’re doing all the work to keep sharp — now all you need is strategy for relaxing when you’re there. I brought luxury stuff for the hotel room / anything to relax the night before, and I ensured to really “reset” every time I walked out of the test sections. You’ve already done it, so you know what to expect. Being accurate is better than being fast, so relax and concentrate. Then rinse & repeat. You got this. 
TLDR, remember to relax.


----------



## junker2122 (2 Feb 2021)

Spc_Cdt said:


> Hey Junker,
> I also had to take it twice to pass. And I also used Lumosity (those raindrops amirite) plus other apps for mental maths, as well as some gaming cuz they told me I was low on spatial stuff. You’re doing all the work to keep sharp — now all you need is strategy for relaxing when you’re there. I brought luxury stuff for the hotel room / anything to relax the night before, and I ensured to really “reset” every time I walked out of the test sections. You’ve already done it, so you know what to expect. Being accurate is better than being fast, so relax and concentrate. Then rinse & repeat. You got this.
> TLDR, remember to relax.


Thank you very much for the advice and confirmation. Very appreciated!


----------



## AliTheAce (17 Feb 2021)

I came back from Aircrew Selections for Pilot on Feb 2, thankfully passed this time after failing my first attempt in Jan 2019! I'm done the medical/interview, all I have left is the CFEME medical done in Toronto. Any Pilot applicants here done that recently? I'm in Ontario only a 30 minute drive from DRDC Toronto.


----------



## Messerschmitt (19 Feb 2021)

AliTheAce said:


> I came back from Aircrew Selections for Pilot on Feb 2, thankfully passed this time after failing my first attempt in Jan 2019! I'm done the medical/interview, all I have left is the CFEME medical done in Toronto. Any Pilot applicants here done that recently? I'm in Ontario only a 30 minute drive from DRDC Toronto.


Welcome to 10 year mandatory service and at least 3 years in the training system. If you applied as DEO.


----------



## AliTheAce (19 Feb 2021)

Messerschmitt said:


> Welcome to 10 year mandatory service and at least 3 years in the training system. If you applied as DEO.


Guaranteed employment for at least 13 years! Sure, not a problem for me.


----------



## Messerschmitt (26 Feb 2021)

AliTheAce said:


> Guaranteed employment for at least 13 years! Sure, not a problem for me.


Well, contract is 13 years as DEO as well, 17 years if ROTP (separate from mandatory service). So up to 17 years guaranteed employment yes, and locked in.

There is also a pilot pay update. Not sure if it will hit this April, but the 1st 10 levels supposedly are GSO pay, then the next 10 levels go up somewhere to 184k/year (vs the current 126k). So you make less vs the current pilot pay, and you recuperate in the last 10 years.

It will take 10 years to make as much as it used to be in only 4 years. This will have a compounding effect each year which will be recuperated after 18 years of being captain to reach break-even point. It makes sense since in the first 10 years you will be locked in and there is no retention problem.


----------



## K1tesurf (28 Feb 2021)

Do you have a link with more information on this? Is this a confirmed update?


----------



## junker2122 (8 Mar 2021)

Hi,

1- I wanted to know if any body has details on how aircrew selection tests dates  are given. I am an ROTP-pilot applicant and it is my second attempt for this test. I had a call a few weeks ago asking me what dates i was available to go to trenton, but I did not get further information. I follow tightly my file, but I am still a little bit scared of not having a date this year. 

2- I wanted to know if any Quebec applicants for an aircrew trade in ROTP has gone for Aircrew Selection testing yet. If yes, please comment here and PM me if you have time.

Thank you and have a nice week.


----------



## Aaron123 (27 Jul 2021)

junker2122 said:


> Hi to all,
> 
> I want to prepare for my Aircrew Selection test that would be in a few months (march 2021). I don't have a date yet but I want to be ready. Its my second time taking the test and I don't want to fail. I train on CBAT and Lumosity 1h30 every day. If you have any advice, please provide.
> 
> Thank you so much.


Hi junker2122! Did you go to Air crew selection yet? I go next month and I'm wondering if you could spare any specifics. Do I have to do complicated math in my head? What should I expect? How can I prepare? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## Aaron123 (27 Jul 2021)

AliTheAce said:


> I came back from Aircrew Selections for Pilot on Feb 2, thankfully passed this time after failing my first attempt in Jan 2019! I'm done the medical/interview, all I have left is the CFEME medical done in Toronto. Any Pilot applicants here done that recently? I'm in Ontario only a 30 minute drive from DRDC Toronto.


Hey AlitheAce! Could you share any specifics of what I can expect at ACS?? Do I have to do complicated math in my head? What should I expect? How can I prepare? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## armrdsoul77 (29 Dec 2022)

Found this podcast by a former Aurora pilot. Lots of discussion about Rcaf pilot training and what it takes to succeed. 
The Pilot Project Podcast


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## Eye In The Sky (29 Dec 2022)

armrdsoul77 said:


> Found this podcast by a former Aurora pilot. Lots of discussion about Rcaf pilot training and what it takes to succeed.
> The Pilot Project Podcast



Bryan is an awesome guy and has put lots of work and time into this project.


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## CLAW41 (Today at 10:57)

Hello everyone! I am preparing For ACS, and I was wondering if you passed for Pilot, how did you prepare scheduling wise, like how did you set aside the time to practice. I got the basics, Lumosity and CBAT. Is there anything else I can do other than these, or does somebody recommend any YouTube content on mental math, or any other resources at all. Also, anyone has general tips when doing ACS? there are hundreds of threads, I am new here, and I'd appreciate a summary on what you guys have learned so far. Thank you so much!


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