# Level II security clearance (secret level)



## readytogo (21 Sep 2010)

Hello all,

          I am in the process of filling out a security clearance for my unit which is apparently classed as "secret".  In this document they are asking for total employment history for the past 10 years, I am wondering how sticky they are on this, as I am an Electrician by trade and our employment often rides with the market I have had quite a few jobs in the past 10 years.  The paperwork says to account for every job with "no Gaps" but i have lapses in employment either for school (8 weeks) or for the 1 day to 1 week it took me to find another job? do i have to identify all those timelines as well? I guess im just having a hard time remembering.

Any insight?
RTG


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## medic65726 (21 Sep 2010)

10 years ago, to work at an airport, I had to apply for my first security and was fingerprinted. They also wanted employment (or school) history and every address I'd lived at in the same time period. Since then i've kept a document on my computer with an up to date list of all that information. Has made filling out subsequent requests much easier. Rather than messing up forms, sit down and take afew days to remember all you can and get it in order.
While an omission may be a legitimate oversight it does little to foster your credibility and can be seen as dishonest. My suggestion would be using whatever sources you can (Tax returns, T4's, Personal notes, records, files etc) to try to get it as complete as possible.
Just my 2 cents from the civvy side.


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## readytogo (21 Sep 2010)

Thats a really good idea about the up to date record, once this one is complete I will have to generate that post haste

thnx


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## PuckChaser (21 Sep 2010)

Get a couple extra forms, and account for all those gaps in employment. Even if you put unemployed, it makes it far easier to investigate if you are upfront about all of your activities. Easy to investigate = probably a faster clearance.


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## OkanaganHeat (21 Sep 2010)

While you were an electrician, were you self employed or with a firm? Your time as an electrician that is self employed or with one firm could be considered one block since the time between contracts would be spent looking for new contracts but you would still have the same information for that period. Also note that the form only requires month and year and not day to day and as Puckchaser noted, no gaps makes for a quicker investigation.

I know that I will have to get extra for my ten years as well due to numerous different jobs and a few years in college with summer unemployed periods. Just make sure you are as accurate as possible. Hope this helps.


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## Retired AF Guy (21 Sep 2010)

readytogo said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> I am in the process of filling out a security clearance for my unit which is apparently classed as "secret".  In this document they are asking for total employment history for the past 10 years, I am wondering how sticky they are on this, as I am an Electrician by trade and our employment often rides with the market I have had quite a few jobs in the past 10 years.  The paperwork says to account for every job with "no Gaps" but i have lapses in employment either for school (8 weeks) or for the 1 day to 1 week it took me to find another job? do i have to identify all those timelines as well? I guess im just having a hard time remembering.
> 
> ...



Go see your unit security officer. He/she should be able answer your questions.


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## muffin (21 Sep 2010)

Once you are done the form it's a good idea to keep a copy as well in case you ever need to redo it/ upgrade - you won't have to "re-look up" everything.

Muffin


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## George Wallace (21 Sep 2010)

All of the above posts are relevent.  Pay attention to them.  

You are required to provide information on where you lived, where you worked, etc. as per the instructions on the forms.  You are not allowed to have any breaks.  As the info is not by day, but by month, this should not be difficult.

If you have any breaks, or do not provide the required information, you Clearance will not be processed, and it will be sent back to you, causing further delays in its processing.  A Level II now takes up to 18 months once a "Complete" form has been submitted, so any delays you put into the process will prolong your getting a Clearance.  There is no such thing as a "temporary" Clearance.  If you require the Clearance for a Course, and you do not have it, then you will not be put on Course.

Always keep a copy, and always keep your own Personal File with all your Course Reports, Posting Messages, Pay Statements, Travel Claims, etc. so that you will have something to back up any claims or corrections you need to make in the future.


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## readytogo (21 Sep 2010)

Thanks everybody,

    Your right george they are all very good points, I found most of my old paperwork so the gaps i have shouldnt be to bad to fill in, I was mostly concerned with the little gaps ( 1 day to 1 week) but i see how the month by month thing makes that a bit smoother.

Thanks again

RTG


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## captloadie (22 Sep 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> A Level II now takes up to 18 months once a "Complete" form has been submitted, so any delays you put into the process will prolong your getting a Clearance.  There is no such thing as a "temporary" Clearance.  If you require the Clearance for a Course, and you do not have it, then you will not be put on Course.



Can anyone confirm what George has said above about losing out on courses etc. while waiting for a clearance to come in? I have noticed several messages that the screening must have been commenced, but not necessarily completed. My posting message said that I needed a higher security level than I possessed, but I was okay to go once I had the paperwork submitted.


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## George Wallace (22 Sep 2010)

Depends on how "Security conscious" the Course is.  If Security is a very real issue, and you do not have a Clearance, you will not attend.  If Security is not a real issue, then someone should be shot and pissed on for assigning too high a Security Classification to it.


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## aesop081 (22 Sep 2010)

captloadie said:
			
		

> Can anyone confirm what George has said above about losing out on courses etc. while waiting for a clearance to come in? I have noticed several messages that the screening must have been commenced, but not necessarily completed. My posting message said that I needed a higher security level than I possessed, but I was okay to go once I had the paperwork submitted.



I attended a course requiring level 3 while mine was still processing.


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## George Wallace (22 Sep 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I attended a course requiring level 3 while mine was still processing.



That being said; don't get the idea that all Courses will be as lenient.


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## aesop081 (22 Sep 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> That being said; don't get the idea that all Courses will be as lenient.



Indeed. I attended other who refused students if they did not have the required clearance.


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## Pusser (22 Sep 2010)

Understand also that there may be a difference between what is required for the course and what is required for the occupation as a whole.  The equipment you learn about on a course may not be classified as high as what you will be doing with that equipment in an operational environment.  For example, a computer that you will learn to use on a course may not be classified in and of itself, but once the course is over and you are in an operational environment, the information you are processing may be classified.  In other words, you may not need a clearance to learn how to do something, but you will need the clearance when you actually start to do it.


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## George Wallace (22 Sep 2010)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Understand also that there may be a difference between what is required for the course and what is required for the occupation as a whole.  The equipment you learn about on a course may not be classified as high as what you will be doing with that equipment in an operational environment.  For example, a computer that you will learn to use on a course may not be classified in and of itself, but once the course is over and you are in an operational environment, the information you are processing may be classified.  In other words, you may not need a clearance to learn how to do something, but you will need the clearance when you actually start to do it.



As I mentioned earlier, if a Crse requires a certain Clearance you should not be on that Crse unless you have the Clearance required.    Putting people who have a Lvl III Clearance being processed onto a Crse that requires Lvl III is a BREACH of Security, or indicates that the Crse should not require a Lvl III in the first place.  If someone drawing up a Crse and a Crse TP has been incompetent/lazy/whatever and overclassified a Crse, they should be shot and pissed on.   They are only holding up valuable training and teaching bad habits.


[Edit to add]

Remember:  The class/course/lecture content may be UNCLASSIFIED in the presentation, but become highly CLASSIFIED in the discusion of the presentation.


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## PuckChaser (22 Sep 2010)

Some courses require a clearance pending as the equipment the students will learn on the course is capable of a specified clearance level, but the equipment itself (basic functions) can be covered at unclass. The radios, a DTD are all pieces I can think of off the top of my head that fall under that realm.


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## justmyalias (24 Sep 2010)

My problem isn't housing and employment...that's the easy part.

My royal PITA., is the foreign contacts, email/online blog sites., bio data on all people in my immediate vicinity....man...what a BRUTAL and EXCRUCIATING experience.  I haven't exactly lived in one town all my life, not ventured beyond our country, and married someone who grew up across the street from me  .

I'm pretty sure my case handler is thinking something is up, as I'm sure taking a heckuva long time to prepare everything.  I'm sure soon as I say I'm on this site, they'll reject me. LOL.


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## George Wallace (24 Sep 2010)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Some courses require a clearance pending as the equipment the students will learn on the course is capable of a specified clearance level, but the equipment itself (basic functions) can be covered at unclass. The radios, a DTD are all pieces I can think of off the top of my head that fall under that realm.



At the same time, although the equipment itself may SEEM to be unclassified, as soon as you start playing with crypto it is a whole different ballgame.  

justmyalias

Where did Canada Post deliver your mail, what was the address on your Driver's Lic, and where did Revenue Canada send your Tax Forms and if you were lucky.....Refund?  Those would all be addresses that you could use.........or just say that you lived in your parents basement.  If you can't give that information, you won't get anywhere on the waiting list for a Clearance.


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## justmyalias (24 Sep 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ....
> justmyalias
> 
> Where did Canada Post deliver your mail...


as I mentioned., my home addresses are not my problem.  It's the other things I listed.


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## George Wallace (24 Sep 2010)

justmyalias said:
			
		

> as I mentioned., my home addresses are not my problem.  It's the other things I listed.



What is the problem then?  You need to list the locations that you have resided.  You say that isn't a problem.  You need to list where you were employed (address of the company or whatever you worked for) and/or the address of the education institution you attended.  That shouldn't be a problem either.  You will have to list References and their contact information and addresses.  If you have them, then that isn't a problem either.  If you were unemployed, then you say so.  Do your RESEARCH and answer the questions.   

If you can not read the instructions and follow them, then stop now.  Don't apply.  Let the people who have to do the Screenings work on the Clearance of someone that really needs it.


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## wildman0101 (24 Sep 2010)

incorrect.
a unit,regiment,squadron,troop. incorrect.
the person required said security clearance is 
required to 
a: fill out copious forms for the mil police.
b: all form's include the person requiring said 
clearance,family background,known associate's,
friend's, aqquatances.
c: once background check is done on said person
requiring said clearance by mil police all info is then 
forwarded to the security section(in my day RCMP)
were the security agency at the time.
d: once said(rcmp) completed back ground check 
and results were sent back to the mp requesting.
1. yes/no
e: when all background, pertinent info ect was 
cleared said member requesting clearence was 
awarded the clearence of (secret)
anyway that was back in my day, and yes i are 
secret. still,,, 
is this still on 

scoty b
just curious is all
ps cheer's


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## George Wallace (24 Sep 2010)

Scoty

A person has to fill out TBS/SCT 330-60e which is a long form requiring all the afore mentioned information dating back ten years for a Lvl II, or higher, Clearance.  The person also has to fill out a Personnel Screening, Consent and Authorization Form TBS/SCT 330-23e.  The person needs a DWAN Acct to submit this electronically, and sign the completed hardcopy (print before submitting electronically).  The person also needs to submit three passport size photos of themself (for Lvl III) with the completed and signed hardcopy.  Later, when their Clearance is to be processed, they will have to be fingerprinted by the MPs or RCMP and have those prints submitted to DPM Secur 2.  NOTE:  Even if you are already fingerprinted for a NDI 20, you still have to have it done again for DPM Secur 2.  Then you wait.


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## SupersonicMax (24 Sep 2010)

GW, what's the processing time for a Level III these days?  I kinda got into no man's land.  I submitted my Level II update in 2006, nothing was done on it, as of 2 weeks ago (it was in QC for all that time), and my clearance expires in November this year.  I tried to get my Level II update cancelled several time, but everybody that tried failed to do so, until my current USS tried.  I filled the Level III paperwork and am waiting for more...

Thanks,


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## George Wallace (24 Sep 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> GW, what's the processing time for a Level III these days?  I kinda got into no man's land.  I submitted my Level II update in 2006, nothing was done on it, as of 2 weeks ago (it was in QC for all that time), and my clearance expires in November this year.  I tried to get my Level II update cancelled several time, but everybody that tried failed to do so, until my current USS tried.  I filled the Level III paperwork and am waiting for more...
> 
> Thanks,



A Lvl III for someone who isn't deploying will take up to three years; a Lvl II up to 18 months.  If you have a Lvl II already, and have to do an update, you still have a Lvl II, so don't worry.  Once your Clearance has gone to QC then the Clearance is out of everyone's control but DPM Secur 2.   Best advice if you are permitted to go for a Lvl III is to wait until your Lvl II comes back for the "Initial Briefing", sign that, and then have your USS immediately initate your Lvl III application.  If you are in a Trade or posn that does not require a Lvl III, then DPM Secur 2 will reject your application.  NOTE:  For pers born outside of Canada, they will also have to submit copy of their Citizen Certificate with their signed hardcopies.


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## SupersonicMax (24 Sep 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> A Lvl III for someone who isn't deploying will take up to three years; a Lvl II up to 18 months.  If you have a Lvl II already, and have to do an update, you still have a Lvl II, so don't worry.  Once your Clearance has gone to QC then the Clearance is out of everyone's control but DPM Secur 2.   Best advice if you are permitted to go for a Lvl III is to wait until your Lvl II comes back for the "Initial Briefing", sign that, and then have your USS immediately initate your Lvl III application.  If you are in a Trade or posn that does not require a Lvl III, then DPM Secur 2 will reject your application.  NOTE:  For pers born outside of Canada, they will also have to submit copy of their Citizen Certificate with their signed hardcopies.



The level II update was already cancelled by my USS (some of the information was not relevant/valid anymore) and he initiated the level III.  I do require a Level III for my work.


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## George Wallace (24 Sep 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> The level II update was already cancelled by my USS (some of the information was not relevant/valid anymore) and he initiated the level III.  I do require a Level III for my work.



That I can't answer.  Most officers hold Lvl II.


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## PuckChaser (25 Sep 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> At the same time, although the equipment itself may SEEM to be unclassified, as soon as you start playing with crypto it is a whole different ballgame.



Yep, it takes on the clearance of the crypto it holds. Still lets members take courses on the equipment, they just won't be able to use it to the full potential.

Max, are you upgrading to Level III, or updating to maintain the currency of your current clearance? My update has been processing for over a year, but since it is filed at DPM Secur I'm still authorized to access information (with a need to know) up to my current clearance level.


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## SupersonicMax (25 Sep 2010)

PuckChaser, I cancelled the Level II update (My current Level) and requested a Level III clearance.


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## Occam (25 Sep 2010)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Max, are you upgrading to Level III, or updating to maintain the currency of your current clearance? My update has been processing for over a year, but since it is filed at DPM Secur I'm still authorized to access information (with a need to know) up to my current clearance level.



That's nothing.  Until April of this year, my last Level III clearance date was *1998*.  It seems as though every time you submit an update with new information, it zaps the older one and you go to the bottom of the electronic pile.  I've been waiting for my SA for two years now.  

There's slow, and there's DPM Secur slow.


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## PMedMoe (26 Sep 2010)

That's been my experience, too, Occam.  My last one went in 2006 and still hasn't been updated.  Apparently, they're more concerned about new ones getting done than renewals.  Your security clearance never really "expires" anyway.


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## PuckChaser (26 Sep 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> PuckChaser, I cancelled the Level II update (My current Level) and requested a Level III clearance.



I have a feeling your paperwork is sitting on the wrong desk somewhere. It's happened to a few people I know, clearance was completed, but sat on a desk for months until someone called and it was processed next day. If you do need it for operational reasons, your clearance can be put on top of the pile as a priority.

Occam: I wasn't complaining, I have a feeling it'll be a while until it is completed. As long as I have access to the information I need, I'm happy.


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## wildman0101 (26 Sep 2010)

George,
In regard's to ready to go's initial requetst for info:
A course/job  requirement is not the issue it's the posting.
concur with the form's as ive stated i have filled out regard's
posting to (shhh comox) job involved) working for MP's.
My point was it is not only the person's background. (hint)
After the MP's background check(approved) as far as they 
go then said form's(like mine) are forwarded to next level.
In my day (RCMP) as they were the int agency at the time 
before they branched of and be came csis.
Anyway hope I clarified.
ready to go: best of luck.
Scoty B


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## PMedMoe (15 May 2012)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> That's been my experience, too, Occam.  My last one went in 2006 and still hasn't been updated.  Apparently, they're more concerned about new ones getting done than renewals.  Your security clearance never really "expires" anyway.



Bit of a necropost:  Just received notice that my security clearance has been completed and sent for batching.  Guess I should start now for 2016.....   :


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## wildman0101 (15 May 2012)

Copy George. In my day you filled out form such and such. One the Miltary Police concluded you were ok
they sent info to RCMP. When your Sec Clearence was approved then you were sent on Crse. Then to 
appropriate unit, where said same Sec Clearence was needed. But then again I'm 25 yrs outa date. 
Cheer's. Scoty B.  P.S. Only Zipperhead's know for sure.


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## jollyjacktar (15 May 2012)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Bit of a necropost:  Just received notice that my security clearance has been completed and sent for batching.  Guess I should start now for 2016.....   :


I don't know if it is because I'm such a great guy, or they're understaffed and undergunned, but, when I came due I filled in the update.  And in the matter of a couple of months or less they said, "fuck it, you're extended another 10 years".  It could be that most of my family I needed to list are all deceased... makes inquiries that much easier.


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## Occam (16 May 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> It could be that most of my family I needed to list are all deceased... makes inquiries that much easier.



Depending on how you read it, like me you may have raised an eyebrow at that statement.

"Coming in September to TLC, a reality show like no other...._CSIS Medium_"


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## PMedMoe (16 May 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> It could be that most of my family I needed to list are all deceased... makes inquiries that much easier.



Now that you mention it, my info is out of date because my Dad passed away last year......  But all my relatives would have been checked out from the original clearance anyway.



			
				Occam said:
			
		

> Depending on how you read it, like me you may have raised an eyebrow at that statement.
> 
> "Coming in September to TLC, a reality show like no other...._CSIS Medium_"



 ;D


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## dapaterson (16 May 2012)

Last renewal I got a complaint that I'd left the place of birth of one relative blank, listing only the province.  "We need the name of the city!" they said.  "Her birth certificate doesn't have one - only the latitude and longitude where she was born." I replied.

Let's hear it for rural Saskatchewan.!


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## CountDC (17 May 2012)

:rofl:   That must have really thrown them for a loop.

I had 14 brothers and sisters - makes for a fun time when they want family info.  Don't have contact with most so last time they told me to indicate that if I didn't have the contact information.  Good thing too as a couple I didn't even know what city they were in.  Best I could give was somewhere in Canada (they moved a lot).  Can't wait for my next one - should be the easiest ever as I only lived in 2 places (I used to move a lot too).


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## opcougar (28 May 2012)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> A Lvl III for someone who isn't deploying will take up to three years; a Lvl II up to 18 months.  If you have a Lvl II already, and have to do an update, you still have a Lvl II, so don't worry.  Once your Clearance has gone to QC then the Clearance is out of everyone's control but DPM Secur 2.   Best advice if you are permitted to go for a Lvl III is to wait until your Lvl II comes back for the "Initial Briefing", sign that, and then have your USS immediately initate your Lvl III application.  If you are in a Trade or posn that does not require a Lvl III, then DPM Secur 2 will reject your application.  NOTE:  For pers born outside of Canada, they will also have to submit copy of their Citizen Certificate with their signed hardcopies.



Hmmmmm...how is this for ya? I arrived in Ottawa thinking I had lvl II, tried to apply for a DTAV account, red flag was raised that I didnt have lvl II. MP LCol got involved, next thing you know within days my lvl II came through, a couple of week later I had my lvl III after interview with CSIS, then I got my TSA. Oh I wasn't deploying by the way, but I was handling files on different missions.

That must be a record ? People that don't have level 2 can't even sign out or use CSNI


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## Franko (28 May 2012)

opcougar said:
			
		

> Hmmmmm...how is this for ya? I arrived in Ottawa thinking I had lvl II, tried to apply for a DTAV account, red flag was raised that I didnt have lvl II. *MP LCol got involved*, next thing you know within days my lvl II came through, a couple of week later I had my lvl III after interview with CSIS, then I got my TSA. Oh I wasn't deploying by the way, but I was handling files on different missions.
> 
> That must be a record ? People that don't have level 2 can't even sign out or use CSNI



That's why it happened so fast. Need to know and someone pushing for it.

Must be a slow night to be responding from a post over two years ago. Things may have changed somewhat as well since George posted it.


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