# Re: ~~CADETS~~



## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Wed, 17 May 2000 16:48:19  0000*
I agree with your views entirely.
As a Flight Sergeant who has just completed his 5th year in cadets and has taken Basic Training, Aircrew Survival, Cadet Instructors, and Survival Instructors Courses I have seen a lot of the same thing you have.
I agree completely that the CIC should undergo more formal training. Some officers are ex-military members or ex-cadets, but they are a huge minority. Favouritism, definitely. Stupidity in the CIC, yeah. I have seen some very good CIC officers who had no previous military experience but most of them don‘t think in exactly a military way. Another problem I have is with the training standards. Like the real CF, we have to take all that human rights, senitization crap or as it‘s formally called the Cadet Harrassment and Abuse Prevention Program or the CHAP Program. I have talk to some officers and old cadets who say that when they were in as early as the 1980‘s and early 1990‘s there were tougher physical standards. Discipline was higher. Before political correctness set in on the entire military they offered summer courses like, parachuting they still do in the Army cadets although a lot of people want to do away with it and SMOG war which was basically a fun 4 week camp where
cadets would lean cam  concealment and sneak around the wood with paintball guns.
And the few courses they have left like Survival Instructor or Senior Leader have been toaned down considerably. We can‘t shoot real guns anymore. In my first year on a survival exercise we marched 7km across a frozen lake with the temp. around -30 C with rucksacks my pack was accually bigger then me and sleds that had our tent on them. I was only 12.5 years old at the time. Now were luck to do a trekk at all and rucksacks are optional. Any sort of professional relationship that once existed between junior and senior cadets and officer is gone. All three levels generally fraternize with each other. It seems that the higher ups in most Sqn.‘s I know it‘s true in mine are not concentrating on training the cadets, just on being their friend. For the little it matters, I sympathize with you reg. force and reserve people who are senior NCO‘s and have to deal with junior less-qualified officers who think they know whnat they are doing.
As for incompetent senior cadets, I‘ll give you this example. Our unit has a F/Sgt. He join the same time that I did and is the same age as I am. He believes that he is the best cadet who ever lived. Yet he knows very little if anything about drill, leadership, instruction, survival, avation, military history or the role of the CF. He is outrightly abuse to some cadets he dislikes, and strongly favours those he likes letting them get away with nearly everthing and assigning them no work what-so-ever. He is a huge whiner. He complains evertime he has a bit of work to do. He whines when we are fundraising, he whines on exercise, he whines on trips, it nevber stops. He is always injured and it‘s usually from something stupid he has done. He has attended two summer camps, a three week leadership camp and 6 weeks of basic band where he achived his level one compaired to an LAC who attended the same course and recieve her level three. He applies for summer camps that are way over his
head, last year it was the Senior leadership course, this year it was an International Exchange to Australia which is usually only given to Warrent Officers in their final year and then complains that he is being treated unfairly when he doesn‘t get in. His uniform is pathetic for a senio cadet. He brags of his physical fittness but has never slept outdoors at our survival camp, never participates in sports usually because he‘s injurd, or so he says, and has the stanima of a 80 year old. He has however, recieved the rank of Flight Sergeant, equal teaching positions, equal responsability, and equal prviledges as myself. He has also been awarded a friggen medal when he was a third year Sergeant and when there were five or six much more qualified and experienced Warrant Officers ands F/Sgt‘s around who got squat. The thing was for outstanding drill, dress and deportment, as well as physical fitness, leadership, exemplifing the aims of the air cadet movement, and having an
interest in the CF. And the wears the damn thing around like it‘s the Congressional Medal of Honour.
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## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300*
you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?  
A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
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## army

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Wed, 17 May 2000 19:51:26 -0600*
--------------6EC6866ADF2C6F5EF033004C
ghallman,
        So what do you base your ignorant attitude towards cadets on? I‘m
giving you an opportunity to dig yourself out of the hole on this one.
Francois Arseneault
ghallman wrote:
> you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>
> Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>
> A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>
> Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
> kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
> that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
> This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
> prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
> joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
> were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
> should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
> that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Wed, 17 May 2000 19:58:54 PDT*
ok, first of all, you have no idea what you‘re talking about. cadets march 
in parades without ****ting on the street?? i‘ll tell you this: the cadet 
squadron i was in had a higher drill standard than the infantry regiment i 
am with now! no word of a lie! we had some pretty spectacular precision 
drill teams! mind you, the standard of the sqn has dropped far below that 
since i have left, but that all goes back to the whole thing about CIC 
officers giving incompetent, ignorant, unqualified cadets positions of 
authority who let the whole unit go to the ****s. when i was in, our senior 
nco‘s were tough on us and if we came to a parade night with a speck of lint 
on our uniform or a tiny little scuff on our boots, we got jacked up big 
time!! when i became a senior nco, i kept the same tradition as my 
predecessors had set out within the rules, of course....with all that SHARP 
and CHAP bull**** i couldn‘t do a ****  of a lot anyways i‘ll get more into 
my views on SHARP and CHAP in another message. cadets isn‘t supposed to be 
the way it is now. with the way cadets is run these days, who could tell the 
difference between cadets and boy scouts or girl guides...not to be 
sexist. i think it works the same way with the reserve and regular forces. 
things have gotten a lot too easy. one of my sergeants was telling me how he 
did his ISCC infantry section commanders course in 95 and how tough it 
was. he then compared it to the course thesedays which is now called 
JLC--junior leaders course. "welcome to the softer, fluffier army where we 
do our darndest to make sure you have a full 8 hours of sleep and a mint on 
your pillow!!" i mean, come on!! anyways, enough about that. now....HOW DARE 
YOU COMPARE CADETS TO HITLER YOUTH!!!! i normally respect other people‘s 
opinions even if they differ from my own, but in this case i think that 
you‘re a complete moron who has no idea what he‘s talking about!!!! i just 
can‘t get over what you said!! hitler youth?? man....screw your head back 
on!! as for kids learning combat tactics...as long as i was in cadets, i 
never heard of cadets learning things like that. i know that there used to 
be parachute courses, but that goes with the whole aspect of AIR cadets. we 
also used to have smallbore arms instructors courses for cadets. they 
dropped that too. i think they should have kept that course because no 
matter what branch of the military you are in, you should at least know how 
to fire a goddamn weapon!!! cadets has gone to the ****s. i still strongly 
believe in the ideals and concept cadets stands for, but the way the system 
is RUN is just despicable!! that‘s about all for my rant. c y‘all l8r!
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
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## army

Posted by *"kyle sharp" <sharpkyle@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 00:15:47 EDT*
hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids 
to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have 
ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet leguie 
will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man 
and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. thanks 
for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
>From: ghallman 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>
>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>
>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>
>
>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
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## army

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Wed, 17 May 2000 22:56:25 -0600*
--------------5D9BB1D3D2D85826916E6CC7
To Kyle and Trevor,
        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend ghallman, he seems
to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously stupid, then
laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, flame baiting
perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit about their
time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there have
occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better to do than
attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel superior...
almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually ever had any
exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and bizarre ideas,
he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
kyle sharp wrote:
> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids
> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have
> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet leguie
> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man
> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. thanks
> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
>
> >From: ghallman 
> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
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> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
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> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set sender
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> >In-Reply-To: 
> >References: 
> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >Precedence: bulk
> >
> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >
> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >
> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
> >
> >
> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
>
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## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 00:34:09  0000*
Hitler Youth? Please.
Cadets has gone totally soft. We are now more concerned with covering our
asses and not violating other people human "rights" that we don‘t really train
for much anymore.
As for that part about teaching kids killing techniques. Pure stupidity. As
long as I have been with the movement we have never, ever, ever, taught
killing techniques. We can‘t play paintball anymore although senior cadets in
my Sqn. gather privately some weekends for a few games. Let me say this. It‘s
an interest in the military that attract young people to cadets. Many of them
go onto the reserves or reg. force. How many cadets bring guns to school? How
many shoot their own peers? That seems to be what your implying we are
teaching. Before I joined I was a quiet nervous 12 year old. Now I can walk
into a room, give drill commands, teach a class on nearly anything I know, or
organize a group of people so that they achive a common goal. I have been very
fortunate to learn survival and instructional skills at a combined total of 13
weeks of summer camps, meeting other people from all over Canada who share my
interests. It‘s taught me discipline and practical skills that I will
certainly use later in life. Cadets travel all over Canada and to other
nations on exchanges.
Cadets acts as a huge recruiting base for the CF. Hundreds of thousands of
Canadians have been taught the above skills, as well as recieveing their
glider and power pilots licences, para wings, navigation, canoing, sailing,
and physical education, all through cadets. It gets youth involved in
community and citizenship efforts. It gives people some pride in Canada and
it‘s military history.
Cadets allows young people all over Canada a chance to participate, in our own
small way, alongside one of the greatest institutions our country has ever
seen. And you call us Hitler Youth!
Jackass...
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## army

Posted by *"John Pullman" <jpullman@bserv.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 09:51:20 -0700*
Give me a break. Kids have been playing with guns and setting ambushes since
they were barely out of diapers. A paint ball is a more sophisticated stick
with a lot more realism. Hardly Hitler Youth orientated.
I suppose that Hide and seek could be construed as escape and evasion.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: ghallman 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 17, 2000 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: CADETS
>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>
>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>
>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>
>
>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
>
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## army

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 11:13:49 -0400*
Does anyone know if the regulation preventing Armed Forces Personell wearing
Camoflauge,  because it is seen as being not politically correct by the
politicosin Ottawa  has been rescinded recently ?
I was watching a show on the TV last evening  there were some Reserve
Airborne troops doing some practice jumps from a Hercules . Well anyways one
of the Troopers was wearing Camoflauge Fatiques .
-----Original Message-----
From: John Pullman 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS
>Give me a break. Kids have been playing with guns and setting ambushes
since
>they were barely out of diapers. A paint ball is a more sophisticated stick
>with a lot more realism. Hardly Hitler Youth orientated.
>I suppose that Hide and seek could be construed as escape and evasion.
>John
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ghallman 
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>Date: May 17, 2000 6:03 PM
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>
>
>>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>>
>>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>>
>>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>>
>>
>>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>message body.
>>
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 09:28:47 -0600*
We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not go
down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
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## army

Posted by *Alan Woolley <awoolley@iaw.on.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 11:30:52 -0400*
John Gilmour wrote:
> Does anyone know if the regulation preventing Armed Forces Personell wearing
> Camoflauge,  because it is seen as being not politically correct by the
> politicosin Ottawa  has been rescinded recently ?
> I was watching a show on the TV last evening  there were some Reserve
> Airborne troops doing some practice jumps from a Hercules . Well anyways one
> of the Troopers was wearing Camoflauge Fatiques .
>
I don‘t think that it was as much a "regulation" as the fact that the issued
uniforms were plain olive drab. the two exceptions were the Airborne jump smock
and the camouflage garrison jacket worn only to the office!
There is a new, camouflage combat uniform that is being trialed by selected
individuals and units. It is part of the "clothe the soldier" project. More info
and pictures are available at:  http://www.army.dnd.ca/equip/hab/index_e.html 
Cheers,
Alan Woolley
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Sgt. K." <troop1_leader@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 17:40:28 GMT*
well...the age for cadets is changing now to 14, also we are not allowed to 
do all of the stuff you say we do. i‘m in army cadets, we do  more bush 
exercices, but still, and now i heard about the new age for reserves! well 
there‘s your hitler youth.it‘s now 16
>From: ghallman 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>
>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>
>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>
>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>
>
>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Pullman" <jpullman@bserv.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 14:07:27 -0700*
Don‘t know about any regulation about not wearing Camoflage. In fact I‘ve
seen our Supreme Sgt Major wearing the new experimental combats. And its the
same cam as the helmet cover. Close up, it looks like my computer screen
just puked!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: John Gilmour 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 18, 2000 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS
>Does anyone know if the regulation preventing Armed Forces Personell
wearing
>Camoflauge,  because it is seen as being not politically correct by the
>politicosin Ottawa  has been rescinded recently ?
>I was watching a show on the TV last evening  there were some Reserve
>Airborne troops doing some practice jumps from a Hercules . Well anyways
one
>of the Troopers was wearing Camoflauge Fatiques .
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 15:39:40 -0300*
Good Afternoon everyone,
    It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left out,
I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
    Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble opinion,
is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In order
for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, decisions in
the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects the
fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable and
responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take very
seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to vitually no
one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made under
the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe Cadets
should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by years.
Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
    The second point I would like to address is the promotion system in
Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends of
officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I was
in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those who
have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be that big
of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification for
these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate reasons.
    Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week because
that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove his
toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military and
war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
UBIQUE
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: kyle sharp 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 18, 2000 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS
>hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids
>to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have
>ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet leguie
>will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man
>and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. thanks
>for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
>
>
>>From: ghallman 
>>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>Subject: Re: CADETS
>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
>>MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
>>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for army-outgoing
>>Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]
>>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
>>UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
>>Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>> Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
>>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
>>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
sender
>>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>>Message-Id: 
>>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>>In-Reply-To: 
>>References: 
>>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>Precedence: bulk
>>
>>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>>
>>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>>
>>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>>
>>
>>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>message body.
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Andrew Davies" <Davies_A@region.durham.on.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 14:54:21 -0400*
The whole army is going to CAM with a digital produced CAM pattern.  It should be available in the Fall for all personnel.  PROBLEM:  Only enough has been ordered to give one per pers.  I hope the SVC Battalion types remember how to hook up a field laundry unit ... of course that‘s why we are having the  Reserve restructuring debate... can‘t wait to see who gets to be postal delivery
Andrew
>>> jpullman@bserv.com 05/18/00 05:07PM >>>
Don‘t know about any regulation about not wearing Camoflage. In fact I‘ve
seen our Supreme Sgt Major wearing the new experimental combats. And its the
same cam as the helmet cover. Close up, it looks like my computer screen
just puked!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: John Gilmour 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 18, 2000 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS
>Does anyone know if the regulation preventing Armed Forces Personell
wearing
>Camoflauge,  because it is seen as being not politically correct by the
>politicosin Ottawa  has been rescinded recently ?
>I was watching a show on the TV last evening  there were some Reserve
>Airborne troops doing some practice jumps from a Hercules . Well anyways
one
>of the Troopers was wearing Camoflauge Fatiques .
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 15:06:02  0000*
You said that cadets has been the same as it always has. That it has never
gotten soft. I certainly have to disagree with you. I joined in 1995 and I can
notice differences in standards and expectations since then. When former cadets
and officers tell me that it was once a lot stricter, I‘m inclined to believe
them.
Everywhere I go, every camp I have been too, people tell me it has become more
relaxed. I have seen it myself. It‘s going on in the entire Armed Forces. I hear
professional soldiers complaining about it.
I do agree with you that there is no accountability on what the CO does. As long
as it not illegal. As for committes making promotion decisions, the only
committees ever involved are with the Warrent Officer ranks. They have a big
natrional listing of all who qualify and any Warrent Officer promotions have to
go through the local squadron‘s sponsering committe who can only really
recommend. In the end, the CO has the final say.
Scott Lloyd wrote:
> Good Afternoon everyone,
>     It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left out,
> I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
>     Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble opinion,
> is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
> problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In order
> for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
> former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
> understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, decisions in
> the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects the
> fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable and
> responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
> honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take very
> seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to vitually no
> one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made under
> the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe Cadets
> should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by years.
> Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
>     The second point I would like to address is the promotion system in
> Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends of
> officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
> justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I was
> in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those who
> have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be that big
> of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification for
> these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate reasons.
>     Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week because
> that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove his
> toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military and
> war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
> UBIQUE
> Scott
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:02:38 -0300*
Go back to Junior High and learn how to spell.  My opinion is based on the
cadets I‘ve seen from around the Atlantic Area and based on things I‘ve
seen and things I‘ve heard of.
That was a joke about ****ty on the street, my dad had to **** on the
street during a parade in Egypt but hey he was a career bleep so there you
go.   I think that most people would agree that cadets are a waste of
funding that could go to the Reg. Forces, the same with the Reserves.  Yes
I am in the Reserves and it is my opinion that it is a waste of money.  I
have to agree with that politician when she/he said that reservists are
nothing but glorified boy scouts.
At 12:15 AM 18/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids 
>to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have 
>ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet leguie 
>will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man 
>and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. thanks 
>for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
>
>
>>From: ghallman 
>>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>Subject: Re: CADETS
>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id 
>>MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
>>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by 
>>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for army-outgoing 
>>Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]   
>>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id 
>>UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
>>Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca          
>>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID 
>>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for 
>> Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
>>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
>>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set sender 
>>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>>Message-Id: 
>>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>>In-Reply-To: 
>>References: 
>>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>Precedence: bulk
>>
>>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>>
>>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>>
>>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>>
>>
>>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>message body.
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300*
Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my opinion.  Go
shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better then
infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other then
marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you cadets
think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think so.
Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time getting
yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot. 
>To Kyle and Trevor,
>
>        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend ghallman, he
seems
>to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously stupid,
then
>laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, flame baiting
>perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit about their
>time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there have
>occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better to do
than
>attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel superior...
>almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually ever
had any
>exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and bizarre
ideas,
>he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>
>Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>
>
>kyle sharp wrote:
>
>> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids
>> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have
>> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet leguie
>> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man
>> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. thanks
>> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
>>
>> >From: ghallman 
>> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
>> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
>> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for army-outgoing
>> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]
>> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
>> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
>> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
>> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
>> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
sender
>> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>> >Message-Id: 
>> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>> >In-Reply-To: 
>> >References: 
>> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >Precedence: bulk
>> >
>> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>> >
>> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>> >
>> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>> >
>> >
>> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>> >
>> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >message body.
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> message body.
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
>
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## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:20:35 -0300*
When it comes to playing war and things like that when you‘re a kid I have
to say that I did all that crap for years.  I wouldn‘t wear anything but
camo sweat pants until I was 8 and I attended pretty well every Armed
Forces Day at CFB Gagetown for the first 10 years of my life. 
When it comes to playing paintball to simulate war thats just retarded.
I‘ve been playing regularly for 7 years and shake my head whenever I see
people bringing killing into the game.
Killing is wrong and not something that should be glorified.  Yes I‘m a
militia Infantryman and I believe that killing is wrong and that violence
in general is wrong.  But still unfortunatly it is necessary in parts of
the world today. There are other non-military ways to teach kids leadership
and how to stand up for themselves.
The point I‘m trying to get at is theres no reason to teach a kid cam and
concealment and marksmanship especially in today‘s world.  I know Hilter
Youth is a strong term to use and when I typed it it was meant as more of a
joke then anything but its not that fare fetched.
At 09:51 AM 18/05/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Give me a break. Kids have been playing with guns and setting ambushes since
>they were barely out of diapers. A paint ball is a more sophisticated stick
>with a lot more realism. Hardly Hitler Youth orientated.
>I suppose that Hide and seek could be construed as escape and evasion.
>John
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ghallman 
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>Date: May 17, 2000 6:03 PM
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>
>
>>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>>
>>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>>
>>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>>
>>
>>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>message body.
>>
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:21:29 -0300*
The airborne wore cam combat shirts
At 11:13 AM 18/05/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anyone know if the regulation preventing Armed Forces Personell wearing
>Camoflauge,  because it is seen as being not politically correct by the
>politicosin Ottawa  has been rescinded recently ?
>I was watching a show on the TV last evening  there were some Reserve
>Airborne troops doing some practice jumps from a Hercules . Well anyways one
>of the Troopers was wearing Camoflauge Fatiques .
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Pullman 
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:03 AM
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>
>
>>Give me a break. Kids have been playing with guns and setting ambushes
>since
>>they were barely out of diapers. A paint ball is a more sophisticated stick
>>with a lot more realism. Hardly Hitler Youth orientated.
>>I suppose that Hide and seek could be construed as escape and evasion.
>>John
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ghallman 
>>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>>Date: May 17, 2000 6:03 PM
>>Subject: Re: CADETS
>>
>>
>>>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>>>
>>>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>>>
>>>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>>>
>>>
>>>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
>>>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>>>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>>>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>>>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>>>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>>>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>>>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>>>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>>message body.
>>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
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>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>message body.
>
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## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:22:54 -0300*
I think the general opinion on the new cam combats would be better if they
weren‘t so ugly.  But remember cam is designed to save lives not to look
cool in.
At 09:28 AM 18/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not go
>down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
>clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:27:09 -0300*
The new cam won‘t be available go everyone in the fall.  The first troops
to wear it will be something like Roto IX or X.  Its going to go to units
that have a use for it.  Such as combat arms units.
At 02:54 PM 18/05/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>The whole army is going to CAM with a digital produced CAM pattern.  It
should be available in the Fall for all personnel.  PROBLEM:  Only enough
has been ordered to give one per pers.  I hope the SVC Battalion types
remember how to hook up a field laundry unit ... of course that‘s why we
are having the  Reserve restructuring debate... can‘t wait to see who gets
to be postal delivery
>
>Andrew
>
>>>> jpullman@bserv.com 05/18/00 05:07PM >>>
>Don‘t know about any regulation about not wearing Camoflage. In fact I‘ve
>seen our Supreme Sgt Major wearing the new experimental combats. And its the
>same cam as the helmet cover. Close up, it looks like my computer screen
>just puked!
>John
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Gilmour 
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>Date: May 18, 2000 8:31 AM
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>
>
>>Does anyone know if the regulation preventing Armed Forces Personell
>wearing
>>Camoflauge,  because it is seen as being not politically correct by the
>>politicosin Ottawa  has been rescinded recently ?
>>I was watching a show on the TV last evening  there were some Reserve
>>Airborne troops doing some practice jumps from a Hercules . Well anyways
>one
>>of the Troopers was wearing Camoflauge Fatiques .
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
>
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## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:29:02 -0300*
I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are soft.
THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go around
setting fires or something.
At 03:06 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
>You said that cadets has been the same as it always has. That it has never
>gotten soft. I certainly have to disagree with you. I joined in 1995 and I
can
>notice differences in standards and expectations since then. When former
cadets
>and officers tell me that it was once a lot stricter, I‘m inclined to believe
>them.
>
>Everywhere I go, every camp I have been too, people tell me it has become
more
>relaxed. I have seen it myself. It‘s going on in the entire Armed Forces.
I hear
>professional soldiers complaining about it.
>
>I do agree with you that there is no accountability on what the CO does.
As long
>as it not illegal. As for committes making promotion decisions, the only
>committees ever involved are with the Warrent Officer ranks. They have a big
>natrional listing of all who qualify and any Warrent Officer promotions
have to
>go through the local squadron‘s sponsering committe who can only really
>recommend. In the end, the CO has the final say.
>
>Scott Lloyd wrote:
>
>> Good Afternoon everyone,
>>     It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left out,
>> I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
>>     Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble opinion,
>> is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
>> problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In order
>> for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
>> former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
>> understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, decisions in
>> the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects the
>> fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable and
>> responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
>> honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take very
>> seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to
vitually no
>> one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made
under
>> the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe
Cadets
>> should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by
years.
>> Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
>>     The second point I would like to address is the promotion system in
>> Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends of
>> officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
>> justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I was
>> in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those who
>> have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be that
big
>> of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification for
>> these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate reasons.
>>     Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week because
>> that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove his
>> toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military and
>> war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
>> UBIQUE
>> Scott
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *The Moose <the.moose@home.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:13:14 -0400*
--=====================_1942613==_.ALT
Listen whoever you are......  I am a cadet and a reservist.
I take much offence to your uninformed views.
First of all, you are a Canadian soldier,  and you go bashing one of 
Canada‘s finer programs by calling them "the Hitler‘s youth" ****, are you 
a Canadian? or some traitor who is not faithful to her majesty the queen????
The cadet program teaches many excellent things, like leadership and 
teamwork, but nowhere does the cadet system teach young 13 year old cadets 
to "kill".  Unlike the reserves where killing is encouraged, the cadets are 
against it.   Paintball is also been removed as a acceptable event for 
cadets due to safety reasons.
I‘m sorry, but I have no respect for you at all, You do not exemplify what 
being a solder means.   A soldier does not go around bashing other military 
programs.
Please know something about what you are talking about before you speak 
next time.
Like i said, I have no respect for you.
You said:
"Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth. Teaching
kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
prejudiced point of view. I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
joined the militia when I was 17. A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
were to immature to be learning what they were learning. I think we
should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
that. I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever."
--=====================_1942613==_.ALT
Listen whoever you are...... I am a cadet and a reservist.
I take much offence to your uninformed views.
First of all, you are a Canadian soldier, and you go bashing one of
Canada‘s finer programs by calling them quotthe Hitler‘s youthquot
****, are you a Canadian? or some traitor who is not faithful to her
majesty the queen????
The cadet program teaches many excellent things, like leadership and
teamwork, but nowhere does the cadet system teach young 13 year old
cadets to quotkillquot. Unlike the reserves where killing is
encouraged, the cadets are against it. Paintball is also been
removed as a acceptable event for cadets due to safety reasons.
I‘m sorry, but I have no respect for you at all, You do not exemplify
what being a solder means. A soldier does not go around
bashing other military programs.
Please know something about what you are talking about before you speak
next time.
Like i said, I have no respect for you.
You said:
quotPersonally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
Teaching 
kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
prejudiced point of view. I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
joined the militia when I was 17. A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
were to immature to be learning what they were learning. I think we 
should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
that. I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
whatever.quot
--=====================_1942613==_.ALT--
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----------



## army

Posted by *The Moose <the.moose@home.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 18:19:41 -0400*
>We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not go
>down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
>clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
Well, as much as I "LOVE" the current combats, all the new stuff with all 
the gortex and all that, makes living and fighting in the field a bit more 
comfy, and the digi pattern is kinda cool.
I like it, and the pieces I have are pretty good.
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 19:52:42 -0300*
Albert,
    I doubt that I said that Cadets have or have not gotten soft.  The point
I was trying to make was that you shouldn‘t listen to the older kids who
talk about the way it was. Live in the present, because for the most part
things have changed for the better. Please try to bear in mind what the
goals of the Cadet Organization, in its simplist form it is to make better
citizens, and provide an opportunity for Canadian youth to develop
themselves. If you think about the things that were "tougher back then"
where they actually benificial? Or did they just make good stories. Believe
me, everyone likes thier own war stories.
No the system is not perfect....it wasn‘t not will it be perfect. The
purpose of training in the military is completely different, and any
degredation of military training could possibly reduce the effectiveness of
a fighting force.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Albert King 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 18, 2000 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: CADETS
>You said that cadets has been the same as it always has. That it has never
>gotten soft. I certainly have to disagree with you. I joined in 1995 and I
can
>notice differences in standards and expectations since then. When former
cadets
>and officers tell me that it was once a lot stricter, I‘m inclined to
believe
>them.
>
>Everywhere I go, every camp I have been too, people tell me it has become
more
>relaxed. I have seen it myself. It‘s going on in the entire Armed Forces. I
hear
>professional soldiers complaining about it.
>
>I do agree with you that there is no accountability on what the CO does. As
long
>as it not illegal. As for committes making promotion decisions, the only
>committees ever involved are with the Warrent Officer ranks. They have a
big
>natrional listing of all who qualify and any Warrent Officer promotions
have to
>go through the local squadron‘s sponsering committe who can only really
>recommend. In the end, the CO has the final say.
>
>Scott Lloyd wrote:
>
>> Good Afternoon everyone,
>>     It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left
out,
>> I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
>>     Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble
opinion,
>> is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
>> problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In order
>> for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
>> former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
>> understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, decisions
in
>> the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects
the
>> fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable and
>> responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
>> honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take
very
>> seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to vitually
no
>> one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made
under
>> the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe
Cadets
>> should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by
years.
>> Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
>>     The second point I would like to address is the promotion system in
>> Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends of
>> officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
>> justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I
was
>> in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those who
>> have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be that
big
>> of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification for
>> these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate reasons.
>>     Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week because
>> that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove his
>> toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military
and
>> war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
>> UBIQUE
>> Scott
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>message body.
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----------



## army

Posted by *Gunner <randr1@home.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 17:16:57 -0600*
I disagree, the new camo pattern works extremely well.  In addition to
the "scientific test" that indicate a reduced ability to locate a
soldier in the uniform, all the soldiers in 3VP I spoke with liked the
new cbts, and finally, in an ad hoc field trial, a group of us saw two
soldiers in the distance one in new and one in old cbts and we all
agreed the new cbts were harder to make out.
The reason why some soldiers have camo and some don‘t is simple.  The
trial began with RSMs at the Bde, Area and LS were issued the sets to
show soldiers what it actually looked like.  This was followed up with
the "field trial" where the new camo pattern approx 120 sets were
given to a company in each light infantry battalion.  Their comments
helped finalize what the new combats would actually be there were some
modifications - for instance a back pocket was added - at least it was
suppose to have been.
When the CLS came through Edmonton in January I think I posted the
information on this site, he indicated that the old style combats would
no longer be purchased and indeed the next buy of combats in late Feb
was for the new pattern camo.  First issue would be in the fall as
quantities of old style combats start to run out.  Unless things have
drastically changed, the combats are to be issued on a first come, first
serve basis. There is NO plan to outfit combat arms units first, regular
units over reserve, etc.  It is anticipated that there will be an
extended period of units and soldiers in all types of uniforms.  The CLS
stressed this is not a bad thing and Comds, COs, etc should not fight
the problem.  Any supply guys out there that can bring me up to date??  
Knowing the army though, I have no doubt we will try to change the
distribution of the uniforms for one reason or another we did it with
the gortex kit issue - reg over res, cbt arms over CSS, unit over HQ,
etc.  
The CLS is coming to Edmonton this weekend...maybe I‘ll ask him how the
issue is going.....  Hope this info helps.....
Gunner sends......
Derrick Forsythe wrote:
> 
> We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not go
> down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
> clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 16:19:26 -0700*
Could have been a Yank on a jump exchange!
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gilmour 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS
> Does anyone know if the regulation preventing Armed Forces Personell
wearing
> Camoflauge,  because it is seen as being not politically correct by the
> politicosin Ottawa  has been rescinded recently ?
> I was watching a show on the TV last evening  there were some Reserve
> Airborne troops doing some practice jumps from a Hercules . Well anyways
one
> of the Troopers was wearing Camoflauge Fatiques .
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Pullman 
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: CADETS
>
>
> >Give me a break. Kids have been playing with guns and setting ambushes
> since
> >they were barely out of diapers. A paint ball is a more sophisticated
stick
> >with a lot more realism. Hardly Hitler Youth orientated.
> >I suppose that Hide and seek could be construed as escape and evasion.
> >John
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ghallman 
> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> >Date: May 17, 2000 6:03 PM
> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >
> >
> >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >>
> >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >>
> >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
> >>
> >>
> >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
Teaching
> >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t
think
> >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
> >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
> >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
> >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry
QL3
> >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
> >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
> >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
whatever.
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >>message body.
> >>
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
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> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 16:28:10 -0700*
Paintball is just tag with bruises, and more incentive not to get caught.
I‘m 38 years old, and I play paintball, my son is 9, and he will play when
he is ready.  You know what, he doesn‘t even know what cadets are. yet He
still loves to play soldier or guns of any kind.
I think I‘d rather have him in cadets learning teamwork, discipline, pride
and a sense of belonging.  Instead of running around the streets with a real
gun, selling or using dope, learning to be a victim or victimizer.
The  cadet movement is a youth  movement dedicated to teaching, our youth,
values that will help them in life.  Just like minor league sports, Scouting
Canada, and Guides Canada.
----- Original Message -----
From: ghallman 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: CADETS
> When it comes to playing war and things like that when you‘re a kid I have
> to say that I did all that crap for years.  I wouldn‘t wear anything but
> camo sweat pants until I was 8 and I attended pretty well every Armed
> Forces Day at CFB Gagetown for the first 10 years of my life.
> When it comes to playing paintball to simulate war thats just retarded.
> I‘ve been playing regularly for 7 years and shake my head whenever I see
> people bringing killing into the game.
> Killing is wrong and not something that should be glorified.  Yes I‘m a
> militia Infantryman and I believe that killing is wrong and that violence
> in general is wrong.  But still unfortunatly it is necessary in parts of
> the world today. There are other non-military ways to teach kids
leadership
> and how to stand up for themselves.
>
> The point I‘m trying to get at is theres no reason to teach a kid cam and
> concealment and marksmanship especially in today‘s world.  I know Hilter
> Youth is a strong term to use and when I typed it it was meant as more of
a
> joke then anything but its not that fare fetched.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 09:51 AM 18/05/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> >Give me a break. Kids have been playing with guns and setting ambushes
since
> >they were barely out of diapers. A paint ball is a more sophisticated
stick
> >with a lot more realism. Hardly Hitler Youth orientated.
> >I suppose that Hide and seek could be construed as escape and evasion.
> >John
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ghallman 
> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> >Date: May 17, 2000 6:03 PM
> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >
> >
> >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >>
> >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >>
> >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
> >>
> >>
> >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
Teaching
> >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t
think
> >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
> >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
> >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
> >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry
QL3
> >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
> >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
> >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
whatever.
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >>message body.
> >>
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 16:30:35 -0700*
The SSF Special Service Force were issued a camoflage jump smock, as part
of thier kit.  But I believe it was not used for jumping,  Reg members
please correct me on that
----- Original Message -----
From: ghallman 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: CADETS
> The airborne wore cam combat shirts
>
>
>
>
>
> At 11:13 AM 18/05/2000 -0400, you wrote:
> >Does anyone know if the regulation preventing Armed Forces Personell
wearing
> >Camoflauge,  because it is seen as being not politically correct by the
> >politicosin Ottawa  has been rescinded recently ?
> >I was watching a show on the TV last evening  there were some Reserve
> >Airborne troops doing some practice jumps from a Hercules . Well anyways
one
> >of the Troopers was wearing Camoflauge Fatiques .
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: John Pullman 
> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> >Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:03 AM
> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >
> >
> >>Give me a break. Kids have been playing with guns and setting ambushes
> >since
> >>they were barely out of diapers. A paint ball is a more sophisticated
stick
> >>with a lot more realism. Hardly Hitler Youth orientated.
> >>I suppose that Hide and seek could be construed as escape and evasion.
> >>John
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: ghallman 
> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> >>Date: May 17, 2000 6:03 PM
> >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >>
> >>
> >>>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >>>
> >>>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >>>
> >>>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
Teaching
> >>>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t
think
> >>>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
> >>>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
> >>>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12
and
> >>>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry
QL3
> >>>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
> >>>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and ****
like
> >>>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
whatever.
> >>>
> >>>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >>>message body.
> >>>
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >>message body.
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 20:22:52 -0600*
--------------CE159CC823C0419E51C60B36
ghallman,
        Clearly you‘re a little confused. Full metal jacket types? Your opinion is
based on the cadets you‘ve seen from around the Atlantic Area and based on things
you‘ve
seen and things you‘ve heard of? Hitler Youth? Um... what the ****  have you been
observing!?
        Gosh... do you really believe everything you‘ve heard? Are you suggesting
I‘m a REMF? I love that one me, a computer nerd LOL!... you have absolutely no
idea who I am.
        Here‘s how it sits, if you want to spew utter stupidity on this server,
you better be ready to answer to your statements. Don‘t whine and snivel that
everyone is attacking you on this matter, this in fact shows how so off the mark
you were in the first place.
        If you really believe your own points you better be ready to back them up.
What you think might be fine, but don‘t even pretend to think for one god forsaken
moment "that most people would agree that cadets are a waste of funding that could
go to the Reg. Forces, the same with the Reserves.  Yes I am in the Reserves and
it is my opinion that it is a waste of money." Oh poor muffin, you are blessed
with delusions of grandeur. The moneys spent on cadets wouldn‘t go to the reserves
or the regs if for whatever fanciful reason it was cancelled, they are not part of
the Reserves or Regs budget.
        "Do you cadets think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I
don‘t think so." That‘s the whole point ghallman, they are not doing everything
you do!!!!! They are cadets!! Albeit I sense, that somehow you feel threatened by
their level of drill.
        Taking a quick glance at the amount of email directed your way on this
subject, it appears that you are just a wee bit in the minority.
        On one point you are correct, kids should be kids, however if they want to
be cadets, then so they should and they will still be kids although better for it,
in spite of your beliefs. I gave you a chance to dig yourself out of the hole,
looks like you didn‘t bother paying attention. Go out and actually educate
yourself on this subject and come back and we‘ll carry a rational sensible
discussion on this matter.
PS. I‘ve been verrrry careful with my spelling. Your kettle black?
Francois
ghallman wrote:
> I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are soft.
> THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
> Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go around
> setting fires or something.
>
> At 03:06 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
> >You said that cadets has been the same as it always has. That it has never
> >gotten soft. I certainly have to disagree with you. I joined in 1995 and I
> can
> >notice differences in standards and expectations since then. When former
> cadets
> >and officers tell me that it was once a lot stricter, I‘m inclined to believe
> >them.
> >
> >Everywhere I go, every camp I have been too, people tell me it has become
> more
> >relaxed. I have seen it myself. It‘s going on in the entire Armed Forces.
> I hear
> >professional soldiers complaining about it.
> >
> >I do agree with you that there is no accountability on what the CO does.
> As long
> >as it not illegal. As for committes making promotion decisions, the only
> >committees ever involved are with the Warrent Officer ranks. They have a big
> >natrional listing of all who qualify and any Warrent Officer promotions
> have to
> >go through the local squadron‘s sponsering committe who can only really
> >recommend. In the end, the CO has the final say.
> >
> >Scott Lloyd wrote:
> >
> >> Good Afternoon everyone,
> >>     It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left out,
> >> I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
> >>     Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble opinion,
> >> is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
> >> problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In order
> >> for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
> >> former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
> >> understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, decisions in
> >> the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects the
> >> fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable and
> >> responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
> >> honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take very
> >> seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to
> vitually no
> >> one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made
> under
> >> the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe
> Cadets
> >> should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by
> years.
> >> Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
> >>     The second point I would like to address is the promotion system in
> >> Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends of
> >> officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
> >> justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I was
> >> in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those who
> >> have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be that
> big
> >> of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification for
> >> these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate reasons.
> >>     Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week because
> >> that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove his
> >> toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military and
> >> war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
> >> UBIQUE
> >> Scott
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------CE159CC823C0419E51C60B36
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and extreme environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
x-mozilla-cpt:-12336
fn:www.avscanada.com
end:vcard
--------------CE159CC823C0419E51C60B36--
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 19:33:19 PDT*
on the most part, i agree with what you‘re saying. but i do have to say that 
cadets HAS gotten weak. i have witnessed it!!
From: "Scott Lloyd" 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:39:40 -0300
Good Afternoon everyone,
     It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left out,
I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
     Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble opinion,
is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In order
for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, decisions in
the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects the
fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable and
responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take very
seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to vitually no
one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made under
the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe Cadets
should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by years.
Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
     The second point I would like to address is the promotion system in
Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends of
officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I was
in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those who
have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be that big
of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification for
these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate reasons.
     Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week because
that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove his
toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military and
war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
UBIQUE
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: kyle sharp 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 18, 2000 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS
 >hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids
 >to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have
 >ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet 
leguie
 >will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man
 >and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. 
thanks
 >for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
 >
 >
 >>From: ghallman 
 >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>Subject: Re: CADETS
 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
 >>MIME-Version: 1.0
 >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
 >>MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
 >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
 >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for army-outgoing
 >>Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
 >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]
 >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
 >>UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
 >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >> Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
 >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
 >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
sender
 >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >>Message-Id: 
 >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >>In-Reply-To: 
 >>References: 
 >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>Precedence: bulk
 >>
 >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
 >>
 >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
 >>
 >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
 >>
 >>
 >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  
Teaching
 >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
 >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
 >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
 >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
 >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
 >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
 >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
 >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
 >>
 >>--------------------------------------------------------
 >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >>message body.
 >
 >________________________________________________________________________
 >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
 >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >message body.
 >
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 19:40:36 PDT*
OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND SWITCH FEET!!!!! you have no idea what you‘re talking 
about!! the standards in the reserves are the same standards as the reg 
force. the only difference is that, in most MOC‘s, reg force training lasts 
longer, so they do more stuff. but the standards to which things are done in 
the reserves are the SAME standards as in the reg force!!!!!
oooh.....you‘re a big man!!! making fun of someone for poor spelling skills! 
i always make sure that my spelling and grammar is precise, and if you want 
me to, i can go through your messages and pick out tons of spelling and 
grammatical errors!!! hypocrite!!
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:02:38 -0300
Go back to Junior High and learn how to spell.  My opinion is based on the
cadets I‘ve seen from around the Atlantic Area and based on things I‘ve
seen and things I‘ve heard of.
That was a joke about ****ty on the street, my dad had to **** on the
street during a parade in Egypt but hey he was a career bleep so there you
go.   I think that most people would agree that cadets are a waste of
funding that could go to the Reg. Forces, the same with the Reserves.  Yes
I am in the Reserves and it is my opinion that it is a waste of money.  I
have to agree with that politician when she/he said that reservists are
nothing but glorified boy scouts.
At 12:15 AM 18/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
 >hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids
 >to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have
 >ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet 
leguie
 >will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man
 >and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. 
thanks
 >for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
 >
 >
 >>From: ghallman 
 >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>Subject: Re: CADETS
 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
 >>MIME-Version: 1.0
 >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
 >>MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
 >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
 >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for army-outgoing
 >>Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
 >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]
 >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
 >>UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
 >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >> Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
 >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
 >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set 
sender
 >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >>Message-Id: 
 >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >>In-Reply-To: 
 >>References: 
 >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>Precedence: bulk
 >>
 >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
 >>
 >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
 >>
 >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
 >>
 >>
 >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  
Teaching
 >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
 >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
 >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
 >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
 >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
 >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
 >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
 >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
 >>
 >>--------------------------------------------------------
 >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >>message body.
 >
 >________________________________________________________________________
 >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
 >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >message body.
 >
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 19:51:19 PDT*
sure, the new cams are ugly but the thing that people don‘t realize is that 
the new cams don‘t conceal as well as the current ones do. there was a man 
from kingston who is a retired infantryman of a number of years who wrote an 
article in the kingston Whig Standard about the comparison between the two. 
he talked about how multi-colour cam is not necessarily the best. camouflage 
is meant to conceal soldiers into the surroundings. good camouflage will 
conceal soldiers into a multitude of surroundings. there was a study done 
with cam from different countries. the brown and green cams from the states 
are good for concealment in parts of the states. the grey and black cams in 
switzerland conceals best in the mountainous swiss alps. but the study 
concluded that the best camouflage scheme that conceals best in ANY type of 
surrounding is plain ol‘ Olive Drab Green!!! don‘t believe me?? i‘ll scan 
the article and send it to you!!
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: RE: CADETS
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:22:54 -0300
I think the general opinion on the new cam combats would be better if they
weren‘t so ugly.  But remember cam is designed to save lives not to look
cool in.
At 09:28 AM 18/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
 >We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not 
go
 >down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
 >clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 20:02:22 PDT*
the whole idea of cadets is to give them viable military training in order 
to stimulate an interest in the CF so that they‘ll hopefully join someday. 
how are teenagres supposed to get the military experience if you "just let 
them be kids"??? if you baby a cadet for their whole time as a cadet, when 
they decide to go into the CF, they won‘t be able to survive!! talk about 
culture shock!! i mean come on!!! i can tell you that if a cadet was to 
leave right now, having the impression that the CF won‘t be too much 
different than what cadets was like, and joined the CF....they wouldn‘t be 
able to make it!!!! even though the CF has softened up lately, cadets going 
from a soft, cushy, lovey-dovey environment to a tough, serious, dangerous 
one such as the infantry, or something, they wouldn‘t last a day! i‘m trying 
to say that you‘re wrong when you say "let them be kids". kids join cadets 
for a reason and that reason is to gain MILITARY experience, god dammit! and 
i don‘t think boy scouts or girl scouts....not to be sexist is sufficient 
"military" experience!!!!!!
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:29:02 -0300
I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are soft.
THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go around
setting fires or something.
At 03:06 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
 >You said that cadets has been the same as it always has. That it has never
 >gotten soft. I certainly have to disagree with you. I joined in 1995 and I
can
 >notice differences in standards and expectations since then. When former
cadets
 >and officers tell me that it was once a lot stricter, I‘m inclined to 
believe
 >them.
 >
 >Everywhere I go, every camp I have been too, people tell me it has become
more
 >relaxed. I have seen it myself. It‘s going on in the entire Armed Forces.
I hear
 >professional soldiers complaining about it.
 >
 >I do agree with you that there is no accountability on what the CO does.
As long
 >as it not illegal. As for committes making promotion decisions, the only
 >committees ever involved are with the Warrent Officer ranks. They have a 
big
 >natrional listing of all who qualify and any Warrent Officer promotions
have to
 >go through the local squadron‘s sponsering committe who can only really
 >recommend. In the end, the CO has the final say.
 >
 >Scott Lloyd wrote:
 >
 >> Good Afternoon everyone,
 >>     It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left 
out,
 >> I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
 >>     Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble 
opinion,
 >> is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
 >> problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In 
order
 >> for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
 >> former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
 >> understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, decisions 
in
 >> the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects 
the
 >> fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable 
and
 >> responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
 >> honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take 
very
 >> seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to
vitually no
 >> one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made
under
 >> the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe
Cadets
 >> should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by
years.
 >> Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
 >>     The second point I would like to address is the promotion system in
 >> Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends of
 >> officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
 >> justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I 
was
 >> in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those who
 >> have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be that
big
 >> of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification for
 >> these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate 
reasons.
 >>     Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week because
 >> that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove his
 >> toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military 
and
 >> war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
 >> UBIQUE
 >> Scott
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 20:06:36 PDT*
yeah....sure it looks really cool and it may conceal you from sattellites 
with all those funky, cool, high-tech little square **** on it, but how well 
do you think it will conceal you from an enemy force on the ground?? i like 
the idea of all the high-speed gortex ****, but at least keep it in OD 
Green. the new cam design sucks ****! .....read my last message on the new 
cams.
From: The Moose 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: RE: CADETS
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:19:41 -0400
>We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not 
>go
>down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
>clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
Well, as much as I "LOVE" the current combats, all the new stuff with all
the gortex and all that, makes living and fighting in the field a bit more
comfy, and the digi pattern is kinda cool.
I like it, and the pieces I have are pretty good.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"k k" <gimpy_pimpy2@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 23:23:06 EDT*
more discipline is going to be needed !!!
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 00:27:49 -0300*
The purose of expressing your views is too better something that has gone
wrong.  If you don‘t think that there are problems in the CF in all areas
then you‘re blind and ignorant.  My views might be radical and I could be
pissing people off, well sorry but I love the CF but I am discusted at what
I see around me.  Everyone is upset about the reserve restructureing and
units being basically labeled as a waste of money but from what I‘ve seen
the funds from the reserves could be used to greater effect in the Regs.
If you had a problem with units being disbanded to divert funds to the
Regs. so that say the Airborne Regiment could be established again then you
don‘t care much about the greater good of the CF.  Am I saying that I think
my regiment and others should be disbanded?  No, the problems should be
worked out and we should start training for combat.  As far me being a
traitor I think you‘re the one who has no idea what hes talking about.  I
call for reform in the CF on all levels.  What I, and others, would like to
see is the Army that our fathers and senior NCO‘s speak of and remember
fondly.  I am completely the opposite of what you say I am. I love the
Army, believe in what it stands for but there are many problems that have
arose out of the end of the Cold War.  Hopefully some day I will be able to
try to make the CF a better place to be a soldier and the family of a
soldier.  I, The Moose, am a Canadian Patriot.  I‘d die for my country if
it came to that.  There is nothing wrong with critisizing something that
you wish to improve.  The point that seems to be the most conflicting is
that I do not think that Canada should have its own para-military type
youth organization.  I‘m not anti-military but I do think that kids should
be left to do what kids do.  There are many ways to learn the same things
that are taught in cadets without haveing a kid with rank on his arm and a
chip on his/her sholder teach it to our children.  I actually think that
all people should have to go trough a stint in the military such as what is
done in Isreal because it instills good morals and values and creates a
common bond between the citizens of the country.  I don‘t care about what
you think of me because I believe that my views are correct and they will
remain the same until I am witness to different and I hope with all my
heart that some day I see different.     
At 06:13 PM 18/05/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>   I am a cadet and a reservist.
> I take much offence to your uninformed views.
> "" ****, are you a Canadian? or some traitor who is not faithful to her
>majesty the queen????
>""    Paintball is also been removed as a acceptable event for cadets due
>to safety reasons.
>   A soldier does not go around bashing other military programs.
> Please know something about what you are talking about before you speak
>next time.
> Like i said, I have no respect for you.
> 
> You said:
>"Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth. Teaching 
> kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think 
> that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns. 
> This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a 
> prejudiced point of view. I started playing paintball when I was 12 and 
> joined the militia when I was 17. A lot of the people on my infantry QL3 
> were to immature to be learning what they were learning. I think we  
> should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like 
>"
> 
>  
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----------



## army

Posted by *"k k" <gimpy_pimpy2@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 23:26:35 EDT*
the training used in the cadet core becomes very usefull for further use in 
a military career!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rank is achieved quicker if ones been in 
a cadet core !!!!!
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## army

Posted by *"k k" <gimpy_pimpy2@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 23:33:56 EDT*
more discipline in cadets is going to be needed  more out door excercise 
activities!!!!
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----------



## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 22:55:02  0000*
Atlantic Area. I live in Manitoba although born in Newfoundland and last summer
I spent 6 weeks in Greenwood Nova Scotia at a survival instructors course and I
never once saw any resembelence of "Hitler Youth." There was no combat training,
no paintball, nothing of the sort.
Before you go and take money out of cadets, mabye you should start with the
billions upon billions that our federal and provincial governments waste already
on socialized medicine, indians, bilingualism, welfare, ect...
ghallman wrote:
> Go back to Junior High and learn how to spell.  My opinion is based on the
> cadets I‘ve seen from around the Atlantic Area and based on things I‘ve
> seen and things I‘ve heard of.
> That was a joke about ****ty on the street, my dad had to **** on the
> street during a parade in Egypt but hey he was a career bleep so there you
> go.   I think that most people would agree that cadets are a waste of
> funding that could go to the Reg. Forces, the same with the Reserves.  Yes
> I am in the Reserves and it is my opinion that it is a waste of money.  I
> have to agree with that politician when she/he said that reservists are
> nothing but glorified boy scouts.
>
> At 12:15 AM 18/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids
> >to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have
> >ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet leguie
> >will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man
> >and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. thanks
> >for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
> >
> >
> >>From: ghallman 
> >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >>MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
> >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for army-outgoing
> >>Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]
> >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
> >>UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
> >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >> Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
> >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set sender
> >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >>Message-Id: 
> >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >>In-Reply-To: 
> >>References: 
> >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Precedence: bulk
> >>
> >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >>
> >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >>
> >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
> >>
> >>
> >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  Teaching
> >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
> >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
> >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
> >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
> >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
> >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
> >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
> >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >>message body.
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
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> >
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>
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 01:02:02 -0300*
I‘m sorry but the standards are not the same in the reserves as in the
regular forces.  Again I am speaking from my point of view which is the
point of view of an infantryman.  Again I wish that the standards were the
same but thats not happening.  Example.  How many soldiers that failed
their 13km march at the end of QL3 passed the QL3 course..........all of them.
At 07:40 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
>OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND SWITCH FEET!!!!! you have no idea what you‘re talking 
>about!! the standards in the reserves are the same standards as the reg 
>force. the only difference is that, in most MOC‘s, reg force training lasts 
>longer, so they do more stuff. but the standards to which things are done in 
>the reserves are the SAME standards as in the reg force!!!!!
>
>oooh.....you‘re a big man!!! making fun of someone for poor spelling skills! 
>i always make sure that my spelling and grammar is precise, and if you want 
>me to, i can go through your messages and pick out tons of spelling and 
>grammatical errors!!! hypocrite!!
>
>
>
>
>From: ghallman 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:02:38 -0300
>
>Go back to Junior High and learn how to spell.  My opinion is based on the
>cadets I‘ve seen from around the Atlantic Area and based on things I‘ve
>seen and things I‘ve heard of.
>That was a joke about ****ty on the street, my dad had to **** on the
>street during a parade in Egypt but hey he was a career bleep so there you
>go.   I think that most people would agree that cadets are a waste of
>funding that could go to the Reg. Forces, the same with the Reserves.  Yes
>I am in the Reserves and it is my opinion that it is a waste of money.  I
>have to agree with that politician when she/he said that reservists are
>nothing but glorified boy scouts.
>
>
>
>At 12:15 AM 18/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids
> >to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have
> >ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet 
>leguie
> >will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man
> >and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. 
>thanks
> >for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
> >
> >
> >>From: ghallman 
> >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >>MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
> >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for army-outgoing
> >>Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]
> >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
> >>UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
> >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >> Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
> >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set 
>sender
> >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >>Message-Id: 
> >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >>In-Reply-To: 
> >>References: 
> >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Precedence: bulk
> >>
> >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >>
> >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >>
> >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
> >>
> >>
> >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  
>Teaching
> >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
> >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
> >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
> >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
> >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
> >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
> >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
> >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >>message body.
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
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> >
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>
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 01:11:19 -0300*
I think that what you are trying to say is that nothing is perfect.  Of
course there is no ultimate cam pattern.  There is no chameleon cam suit
that changes color with its surroundings.  
But I do think that I will trust the opinion of the soldiers that did the
testing and the overwhelming majority of soldiers in the world that believe
in cam patterns.  If olive drab was such a good cam color then we wouldn‘t
put vegetation on our helmets we‘d just just have an olive drab cover.
Take a look at the forest, are trees completely olive drab.
At 07:51 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
>sure, the new cams are ugly but the thing that people don‘t realize is that 
>the new cams don‘t conceal as well as the current ones do. there was a man 
>from kingston who is a retired infantryman of a number of years who wrote an 
>article in the kingston Whig Standard about the comparison between the two. 
>he talked about how multi-colour cam is not necessarily the best. camouflage 
>is meant to conceal soldiers into the surroundings. good camouflage will 
>conceal soldiers into a multitude of surroundings. there was a study done 
>with cam from different countries. the brown and green cams from the states 
>are good for concealment in parts of the states. the grey and black cams in 
>switzerland conceals best in the mountainous swiss alps. but the study 
>concluded that the best camouflage scheme that conceals best in ANY type of 
>surrounding is plain ol‘ Olive Drab Green!!! don‘t believe me?? i‘ll scan 
>the article and send it to you!!
>
>
>From: ghallman 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: RE: CADETS
>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:22:54 -0300
>
>I think the general opinion on the new cam combats would be better if they
>weren‘t so ugly.  But remember cam is designed to save lives not to look
>cool in.
>
>
>
>At 09:28 AM 18/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> >We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not 
>go
> >down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
> >clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 01:27:33 -0300*
So are you trying to say the point of the Cadets is to recruit for the CF.
Hummm  that kinda proves my point in a way but not totally and I‘m sure
you‘ll come up with something that conflicts with what you said.  What the
****  do you think most recruits go through when they begin basic, a culture
shock, which is all part of the training.  You‘re supposed to be rebuilt
well I guess the whole breaking down and rebuilding process isn‘t really
used anymore into a soldier.  Why do you think young teens need military
experience, incase of war so they can be called up?  What does that sound
like?  I‘m guessing that you‘re a cadet, a very gung ho one that wants to
be a super soldier by the time he gets out of cadets so he can breeze right
through his training to join the Regs.  I know enough cadets to know for
sure that cadets does not prepare you for the "real" military and it
shouldn‘t.  We shouldn‘t grow our youth to become soldiers.  That should be
the choice of young men and women.  We no longer live in a society where it
is necessary for all to posses combat skills and I for one am proud of
that.  I know that for some of my views I am in the minority but you should
remember that people used to believe that the world was flat.  Did that
make the few who believed the world is round wrong?  I don‘t think so.
Take my advice kid, there are many things out there that will prepare you
for life as a soldier other then cadets.  
At 08:02 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
>the whole idea of cadets is to give them viable military training in order 
>to stimulate an interest in the CF so that they‘ll hopefully join someday. 
>how are teenagres supposed to get the military experience if you "just let 
>them be kids"??? if you baby a cadet for their whole time as a cadet, when 
>they decide to go into the CF, they won‘t be able to survive!! talk about 
>culture shock!! i mean come on!!! i can tell you that if a cadet was to 
>leave right now, having the impression that the CF won‘t be too much 
>different than what cadets was like, and joined the CF....they wouldn‘t be 
>able to make it!!!! even though the CF has softened up lately, cadets going 
>from a soft, cushy, lovey-dovey environment to a tough, serious, dangerous 
>one such as the infantry, or something, they wouldn‘t last a day! i‘m trying 
>to say that you‘re wrong when you say "let them be kids". kids join cadets 
>for a reason and that reason is to gain MILITARY experience, god dammit! and 
>i don‘t think boy scouts or girl scouts....not to be sexist is sufficient 
>"military" experience!!!!!!
>
>
>From: ghallman 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:29:02 -0300
>
>I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are soft.
>THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
>Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go around
>setting fires or something.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 03:06 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
> >You said that cadets has been the same as it always has. That it has never
> >gotten soft. I certainly have to disagree with you. I joined in 1995 and I
>can
> >notice differences in standards and expectations since then. When former
>cadets
> >and officers tell me that it was once a lot stricter, I‘m inclined to 
>believe
> >them.
> >
> >Everywhere I go, every camp I have been too, people tell me it has become
>more
> >relaxed. I have seen it myself. It‘s going on in the entire Armed Forces.
>I hear
> >professional soldiers complaining about it.
> >
> >I do agree with you that there is no accountability on what the CO does.
>As long
> >as it not illegal. As for committes making promotion decisions, the only
> >committees ever involved are with the Warrent Officer ranks. They have a 
>big
> >natrional listing of all who qualify and any Warrent Officer promotions
>have to
> >go through the local squadron‘s sponsering committe who can only really
> >recommend. In the end, the CO has the final say.
> >
> >Scott Lloyd wrote:
> >
> >> Good Afternoon everyone,
> >>     It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left 
>out,
> >> I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
> >>     Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble 
>opinion,
> >> is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
> >> problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In 
>order
> >> for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
> >> former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
> >> understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, decisions 
>in
> >> the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects 
>the
> >> fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable 
>and
> >> responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
> >> honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take 
>very
> >> seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to
>vitually no
> >> one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made
>under
> >> the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe
>Cadets
> >> should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by
>years.
> >> Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
> >>     The second point I would like to address is the promotion system in
> >> Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends of
> >> officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
> >> justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I 
>was
> >> in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those who
> >> have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be that
>big
> >> of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification for
> >> these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate 
>reasons.
> >>     Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week because
> >> that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove his
> >> toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military 
>and
> >> war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
> >> UBIQUE
> >> Scott
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
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> >message body.
> >
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>
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 01:30:32 -0300*
So how much time do you have in as an infantryman?  I‘m sorry that it
doesn‘t look cool enough for you.  From what I‘ve heard someone correct me
if I‘m wrong the OD combats will become garrison dress while the new Can.
Pat. will be for field use only.
At 08:06 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
>yeah....sure it looks really cool and it may conceal you from sattellites 
>with all those funky, cool, high-tech little square **** on it, but how well 
>do you think it will conceal you from an enemy force on the ground?? i like 
>the idea of all the high-speed gortex ****, but at least keep it in OD 
>Green. the new cam design sucks ****! .....read my last message on the new 
>cams.
>
>
>From: The Moose 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: RE: CADETS
>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:19:41 -0400
>
>
>>We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not 
>>go
>>down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
>>clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
>
>Well, as much as I "LOVE" the current combats, all the new stuff with all
>the gortex and all that, makes living and fighting in the field a bit more
>comfy, and the digi pattern is kinda cool.
>I like it, and the pieces I have are pretty good.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
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----------



## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 23:26:24  0000*
Listen to your own words buddy. Kids play paintball, kids play capture the flag.
The vast majority of kids do stuff like that. Most kids don‘t join gangs or shoot
up schools.
Training in cadets should be harder then the boy scouts or whatever the civvie
equal is. Cadets provides youth with a MILITARY experience. It‘s unique because of
the harder pace of training that has usually existed and because of what exactly
cadets do. Trekks, navagation, survival, shooting, effective leadership,
insturctional techniques, band, avation, rapelling, and sailing as well as the
important fact that cadets wear uniforms, they do the same drill as the real CF,
for exercises they are issued the same kit, for camps they go to real military
bases. You can‘t do any of that in the boy scouts or on the high school basketball
team. Cadets is an attractive offer for young people because it gives that
military experience that no other organization in Canada can. The discipline or
skills that you learn can‘t be learned elsewhere.
What other youth organization allows people to get their pilots or gliders
licence? Or jump out of planes? Or spend a summer on one of HMCS? None. That‘s
what makes it so great.
Young people are looking for challenges. Keep the standards high and keep the
program military orientated without getting really into the combat stuff, like
teaching kids how to throw grenades or kill someone with their bare hands they
can accually learn stuff like that in the many of the youth karate clubs across
Canada.
As for standards dropping, they are. If they go too low, people will become
disinteresed, look at the boy scouts.
ghallman wrote:
> I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are soft.
> THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
> Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go around
> setting fires or something.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 01:33:17 -0300*
What?  I‘m in the militia with former cadets and they have recieved
accelerated promotion due to their superior soldiering skills.   I‘d like
to see some facts behind your statements. 
At 11:26 PM 18/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>
>
>the training used in the cadet core becomes very usefull for further use in 
>a military career!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rank is achieved quicker if ones been in 
>a cadet core !!!!!
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 01:41:36 -0300*
Woa man I don‘t even want to touch that one. Of course cadets aren‘t like
the Hitler Youth but I think there are a lot of kids out there who would
want to learn what they were taught excluding the Facsim of course.  We
being adults have to look out for kids and I don‘t believe that we should
teach them how to be soldiers.  There are too many children out there who
have been forced into fighting for a cause they don‘t share or understand. 
My point.  Canada does not need a military orientated children‘s
organization and Canada‘s children do not need to be taught how to be young
soldiers.
At 10:55 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
>Atlantic Area. I live in Manitoba although born in Newfoundland and last
summer
>I spent 6 weeks in Greenwood Nova Scotia at a survival instructors course
and I
>never once saw any resembelence of "Hitler Youth." There was no combat
training,
>no paintball, nothing of the sort.
>
>Before you go and take money out of cadets, mabye you should start with the
>billions upon billions that our federal and provincial governments waste
already
>on socialized medicine, indians, bilingualism, welfare, ect...
>
>ghallman wrote:
>
>> Go back to Junior High and learn how to spell.  My opinion is based on the
>> cadets I‘ve seen from around the Atlantic Area and based on things I‘ve
>> seen and things I‘ve heard of.
>> That was a joke about ****ty on the street, my dad had to **** on the
>> street during a parade in Egypt but hey he was a career bleep so there you
>> go.   I think that most people would agree that cadets are a waste of
>> funding that could go to the Reg. Forces, the same with the Reserves.  Yes
>> I am in the Reserves and it is my opinion that it is a waste of money.  I
>> have to agree with that politician when she/he said that reservists are
>> nothing but glorified boy scouts.
>>
>> At 12:15 AM 18/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>> >hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching kids
>> >to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i have
>> >ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet
leguie
>> >will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey man
>> >and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory.
thanks
>> >for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: ghallman 
>> >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >>Subject: Re: CADETS
>> >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
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>> >> Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
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>> >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
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>> >>
>> >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>> >>
>> >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>> >>
>> >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
Teaching
>> >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
>> >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>> >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>> >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
>> >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
>> >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>> >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
>> >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or whatever.
>> >>
>> >>--------------------------------------------------------
>> >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >>message body.
>> >
>> >________________________________________________________________________
>> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>> >
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>> >
>>
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>
>
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Thu, 18 May 2000 23:46:08  0000*
Scott,
    Being 17 years old and soon to be promoted to Warrent Officer 2nd Class I
hope I suppose that I am one of the older kids. In the 5 years I have been in,
I have seen changes. Our numbers have dropped in the past few years, I havn‘t
felt challenged in cadets for quite a while. Lots of little things, we used to
go on much longer hikes, our training days on weekend exercises used to be
longer and more intense, overall discipline on both the weekly parades and on
exercises and trips was stricter. Now when I teach a drill class, I have to give
the cadets breaks every so often according to the will of our officers, I
remember going through very long drill classes at one time with only a few
breaks. Cadets seem to have a lot less respect for the officers and senior
cadets then they used to. The things that some of our first years to officers
anD senior cadets in crazy. Yet they often get away with it. Yelling at cadets
when they screw up is frowned upon, I don‘t mean calling them down or cursing
repeadly at them, just the kind of witty hollerings that cadets once recieved
from their higher ups. Our third and second years who will be running the Sqn.
after my peers and myself go are completely unwilling to accept command
challenges or responsability. I couldn‘t wait to get stuff like that when I was
at their level.
Now, because I‘m a moron, I‘m doing the exact opposite that I wanted to do. I‘m
not trying to sound tough, or like I‘m hot **** or anything, but in my opinion
when things were harder, things were better. So from my experiences, when cadets
from the past say that their days in were tougher the mine, I‘m inclined to
believe them.
Scott Lloyd wrote:
> Albert,
>     I doubt that I said that Cadets have or have not gotten soft.  The point
> I was trying to make was that you shouldn‘t listen to the older kids who
> talk about the way it was. Live in the present, because for the most part
> things have changed for the better. Please try to bear in mind what the
> goals of the Cadet Organization, in its simplist form it is to make better
> citizens, and provide an opportunity for Canadian youth to develop
> themselves. If you think about the things that were "tougher back then"
> where they actually benificial? Or did they just make good stories. Believe
> me, everyone likes thier own war stories.
> No the system is not perfect....it wasn‘t not will it be perfect. The
> purpose of training in the military is completely different, and any
> degredation of military training could possibly reduce the effectiveness of
> a fighting force.
>
> Scott
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## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 01:54:59 -0300*
I play paintball
I played "war" as a kid
Yes that is harmless.
My point is that children do not need military experience.  Our societies
will remain violent for as long as we let it. 
I play violent video games
I watch violent movies
Many if not most people men enjoy these things but it can‘t be deneyed
that if many violent influences were removed from our socities and others
then the world would be a better place.  Children have a lot of
contradictory in their lives.  What makes it right to kill because of
different political views.  All this bull**** that causes war just isn‘t
right and we shouldn‘t drag children in to military society.
At 11:26 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
>Listen to your own words buddy. Kids play paintball, kids play capture the
flag.
>The vast majority of kids do stuff like that. Most kids don‘t join gangs
or shoot
>up schools.
>
>Training in cadets should be harder then the boy scouts or whatever the
civvie
>equal is. Cadets provides youth with a MILITARY experience. It‘s unique
because of
>the harder pace of training that has usually existed and because of what
exactly
>cadets do. Trekks, navagation, survival, shooting, effective leadership,
>insturctional techniques, band, avation, rapelling, and sailing as well as
the
>important fact that cadets wear uniforms, they do the same drill as the
real CF,
>for exercises they are issued the same kit, for camps they go to real
military
>bases. You can‘t do any of that in the boy scouts or on the high school
basketball
>team. Cadets is an attractive offer for young people because it gives that
>military experience that no other organization in Canada can. The
discipline or
>skills that you learn can‘t be learned elsewhere.
>
>What other youth organization allows people to get their pilots or gliders
>licence? Or jump out of planes? Or spend a summer on one of HMCS? None.
That‘s
>what makes it so great.
>
>Young people are looking for challenges. Keep the standards high and keep the
>program military orientated without getting really into the combat stuff,
like
>teaching kids how to throw grenades or kill someone with their bare hands
they
>can accually learn stuff like that in the many of the youth karate clubs
across
>Canada.
>
>As for standards dropping, they are. If they go too low, people will become
>disinteresed, look at the boy scouts.
>
>ghallman wrote:
>
>> I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are soft.
>> THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
>> Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go around
>> setting fires or something.
>>
>
>
>
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## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 00:08:26  0000*
--------------C1A5AF233B21EB7BEB06F0B9
Interesting point you brought up...
"having a kid with a rank on his arm and a chip on his shoulder"
I must say that there are too many of these people out in the cadet
organization. Especially in the summer camps staff cadets attitude. But in
cadets, like in any military organization, you get people like this. I think
that it‘s up to higher ranking cadets and officers to keep morons like this
under control believe me, I know what your talking about. But kids who are
left to "do what they do" are the ones who usually end up in trouble. I don‘t
know what your experience with cadets is, but don‘t brand all of us the same
just because you have seen a few screw ups. Most senior cadets are not like
that, they were also 13 and 14 once and know what it‘s like to be at the
bottom. They didn‘t start out on top, and the kids under them will be in their
own shoes one day.
As for disbanding cadets or the reserves to give more cash to the reg. force.
Won‘t happen. What we need is a change in government to channel all the cash
wasted elsewhere and put that into the military. If cadets and the reserves
were gone tomarrow, DND would not see too much if any of that money. Running a
government is coastly and there are many other vote getting priorities that the
Liberals have right now. The forces are at the bottom of the barrel.
ghallman wrote:
> The purose of expressing your views is too better something that has gone
> wrong.  If you don‘t think that there are problems in the CF in all areas
> then you‘re blind and ignorant.  My views might be radical and I could be
> pissing people off, well sorry but I love the CF but I am discusted at what
> I see around me.  Everyone is upset about the reserve restructureing and
> units being basically labeled as a waste of money but from what I‘ve seen
> the funds from the reserves could be used to greater effect in the Regs.
> If you had a problem with units being disbanded to divert funds to the
> Regs. so that say the Airborne Regiment could be established again then you
> don‘t care much about the greater good of the CF.  Am I saying that I think
> my regiment and others should be disbanded?  No, the problems should be
> worked out and we should start training for combat.  As far me being a
> traitor I think you‘re the one who has no idea what hes talking about.  I
> call for reform in the CF on all levels.  What I, and others, would like to
> see is the Army that our fathers and senior NCO‘s speak of and remember
> fondly.  I am completely the opposite of what you say I am. I love the
> Army, believe in what it stands for but there are many problems that have
> arose out of the end of the Cold War.  Hopefully some day I will be able to
> try to make the CF a better place to be a soldier and the family of a
> soldier.  I, The Moose, am a Canadian Patriot.  I‘d die for my country if
> it came to that.  There is nothing wrong with critisizing something that
> you wish to improve.  The point that seems to be the most conflicting is
> that I do not think that Canada should have its own para-military type
> youth organization.  I‘m not anti-military but I do think that kids should
> be left to do what kids do.  There are many ways to learn the same things
> that are taught in cadets without haveing a kid with rank on his arm and a
> chip on his/her sholder teach it to our children.  I actually think that
> all people should have to go trough a stint in the military such as what is
> done in Isreal because it instills good morals and values and creates a
> common bond between the citizens of the country.  I don‘t care about what
> you think of me because I believe that my views are correct and they will
> remain the same until I am witness to different and I hope with all my
> heart that some day I see different.
--------------C1A5AF233B21EB7BEB06F0B9
Interesting point you brought up...
"having a kid with a rank on his arm and a chip on his shoulder"
I must say that there are too many of these people out in the cadet
organization. Especially in the summer camps staff cadets attitude. But
in cadets, like in any military organization, you get people like this.
I think that it‘s up to higher ranking cadets and officers to keep morons
like this under control believe me, I know what your talking about. But
kids who are left to "do what they do" are the ones who usually end up
in trouble. I don‘t know what your experience with cadets is, but don‘t
brand all of us the same just because you have seen a few screw ups. Most
senior cadets are not like that, they were also 13 and 14 once and know
what it‘s like to be at the bottom. They didn‘t start out on top, and the
kids under them will be in their own shoes one day.
As for disbanding cadets or the reserves to give more cash to the reg.
force. Won‘t happen. What we need is a change in government to channel
all the cash wasted elsewhere and put that into the military. If cadets
and the reserves were gone tomarrow, DND would not see too much if any
of that money. Running a government is coastly and there are many other
vote getting priorities that the Liberals have right now. The forces are
at the bottom of the barrel.
ghallman wrote:
The purose of expressing your views is too better
something that has gone
wrong. If you don‘t think that there are problems in the CF in
all areas
then you‘re blind and ignorant. My views might be radical and
I could be
pissing people off, well sorry but I love the CF but I am discusted
at what
I see around me. Everyone is upset about the reserve restructureing
and
units being basically labeled as a waste of money but from what I‘ve
seen
the funds from the reserves could be used to greater effect in the
Regs.
If you had a problem with units being disbanded to divert funds to
the
Regs. so that say the Airborne Regiment could be established again
then you
don‘t care much about the greater good of the CF. Am I saying
that I think
my regiment and others should be disbanded? No, the problems
should be
worked out and we should start training for combat. As far me
being a
traitor I think you‘re the one who has no idea what hes talking about.
I
call for reform in the CF on all levels. What I, and others,
would like to
see is the Army that our fathers and senior NCO‘s speak of and remember
fondly. I am completely the opposite of what you say I am. I
love the
Army, believe in what it stands for but there are many problems that
have
arose out of the end of the Cold War. Hopefully some day I will
be able to
try to make the CF a better place to be a soldier and the family of
a
soldier. I, The Moose, am a Canadian Patriot. I‘d die for
my country if
it came to that. There is nothing wrong with critisizing something
that
you wish to improve. The point that seems to be the most conflicting
is
that I do not think that Canada should have its own para-military type
youth organization. I‘m not anti-military but I do think that
kids should
be left to do what kids do. There are many ways to learn the
same things
that are taught in cadets without haveing a kid with rank on his arm
and a
chip on his/her sholder teach it to our children. I actually
think that
all people should have to go trough a stint in the military such as
what is
done in Isreal because it instills good morals and values and creates
a
common bond between the citizens of the country. I don‘t care
about what
you think of me because I believe that my views are correct and they
will
remain the same until I am witness to different and I hope with all
my
heart that some day I see different.
--------------C1A5AF233B21EB7BEB06F0B9--
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 02:27:31 -0300*
Yeah I have to agree with that, its wrong to stereotype but I‘ve ran into a
lot of cadets who think they out rank me because I‘m a militia private and
they‘re say an airforce warrent.  I‘ve also been saluted a few times.  Oh
well, I‘m getting sick of all this.  I just would like to see the military
to be a better place to be.  Violence is problem in the world today and I
think that we must teach the youth that it is wrong. Its odd to tell a kid
not to fight all of his life and then let them or put them in a military
type organization to teach them to be good citizens.  Along the way they
will learn how to use weapons but still its wrong to put them into use for
what they are designed to do.  Theres a vicious cycle that we are in. 
At 12:08 AM 19/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
> Interesting point you brought up...  "having a kid with a rank on his arm
>and a chip on his shoulder"  I must say that there are too many of these
>people out in the cadet organization. Especially in the summer camps staff
>cadets attitude. But in cadets, like in any military organization, you get
>people like this. I think that it‘s up to higher ranking cadets and
>officers to keep morons like this under control believe me, I know what
>your talking about. But kids who are left to "do what they do" are the
>ones who usually end up in trouble. I don‘t know what your experience with
>cadets is, but don‘t brand all of us the same just because you have seen a
>few screw ups. Most senior cadets are not like that, they were also 13 and
>14 once and know what it‘s like to be at the bottom. They didn‘t start out
>on top, and the kids under them will be in their own shoes one day.  As for
>disbanding cadets or the reserves to give more cash to the reg. force.
>Won‘t happen. What we need is a change in government to channel all the
>cash wasted elsewhere and put that into the military. If cadets and the
>reserves were gone tomarrow, DND would not see too much if any of that
>money. Running a government is coastly and there are many other vote
>getting priorities that the Liberals have right now. The forces are at the
>bottom of the barrel.  ghallman wrote: The purose of expressing your views
>is too better something that has gone 
>  If you don‘t think that there are problems in the CF in all areas 
>  My views might be radical and I could be 
>pissing people off, well sorry but I love the CF but I am discusted at what 
>  Everyone is upset about the reserve restructureing and 
>units being basically labeled as a waste of money but from what I‘ve seen 
>the funds from the reserves could be used to greater effect in the Regs. 
>If you had a problem with units being disbanded to divert funds to the 
>Regs. so that say the Airborne Regiment could be established again then you 
>  Am I saying that I think 
>  No, the problems should be 
>  As far me being a 
>  I 
>  What I, and others, would like to 
>see is the Army that our fathers and senior NCO‘s speak of and remember 
>  I am completely the opposite of what you say I am. I love the 
>Army, believe in what it stands for but there are many problems that have 
>  Hopefully some day I will be able to 
>try to make the CF a better place to be a soldier and the family of a 
>   I‘d die for my country if 
>  There is nothing wrong with critisizing something that 
>  The point that seems to be the most conflicting is 
>that I do not think that Canada should have its own para-military type 
>  I‘m not anti-military but I do think that kids should 
>  There are many ways to learn the same things 
>that are taught in cadets without haveing a kid with rank on his arm and a 
>  I actually think that 
>all people should have to go trough a stint in the military such as what is 
>done in Isreal because it instills good morals and values and creates a 
>  I don‘t care about what 
>you think of me because I believe that my views are correct and they will 
>remain the same until I am witness to different and I hope with all my 
>heart that some day I see different.
>  
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 00:36:35  0000*
--------------C0A59D83A896E26CD57A47B0
We aren‘t forcing kids to join. This is not western Africa or Nazi Germany. You
said that in a previous message that you were for mandatory military service for
all. Then in another message in reply to someone else you say that your pround to
live in a society where not everyone has to be combatants. You say you want to
keep kids away from the military, yet you support the government forcing them to
serve.
I have gain through cadets, a great respect for the job that the Canadian Forces
and professional servicemen and women all over the world do. I have gain
self-respect, confidence, leadership skills, practical skills, and experiences
that cannot be done elsewhere in other organizations. Cadets bring youth together
who have similar interests. People make friends, gain confidence. Enough so that
they are able to fight off the bad elements of our society. The military minus the
combat skills has a lot of other skills to offer. In a country‘s military you lean
to obey, to lead, discipline, and respect. Take the military framework and apply
it to youth, subtract all the guns and bombs, and you get a program that cannot be
matched by any other. I‘m not a crazy war-child. I don‘t think killing people is
cool. I‘d like to enter the forces after university the reserves while I‘m at
school not because to quote a line from Full Metal Jacket "I want ot travel to
interesting lands and meet exotic people, and kill them."
but because I believe in what they do and because the career would seem to be
challenging and interesting.
I‘m sorry, but I have been in cadets too long and seen the things it has done for
people and myself to agree with you.
ghallman wrote:
> Woa man I don‘t even want to touch that one. Of course cadets aren‘t like
> the Hitler Youth but I think there are a lot of kids out there who would
> want to learn what they were taught excluding the Facsim of course.  We
> being adults have to look out for kids and I don‘t believe that we should
> teach them how to be soldiers.  There are too many children out there who
> have been forced into fighting for a cause they don‘t share or understand.
> My point.  Canada does not need a military orientated children‘s
> organization and Canada‘s children do not need to be taught how to be young
> soldiers.
--------------C0A59D83A896E26CD57A47B0
We aren‘t forcing kids to join. This is not western Africa or Nazi Germany.
You said that in a previous message that you were for mandatory military
service for all. Then in another message in reply to someone else you say
that your pround to live in a society where not everyone has to be combatants.
You say you want to keep kids away from the military, yet you support the
government forcing them to serve.
I have gain through cadets, a great respect for the job that the Canadian
Forces and professional servicemen and women all over the world do. I have
gain self-respect, confidence, leadership skills, practical skills, and
experiences that cannot be done elsewhere in other organizations. Cadets
bring youth together who have similar interests. People make friends, gain
confidence. Enough so that they are able to fight off the bad elements
of our society. The military minus the combat skills has a lot of other
skills to offer. In a country‘s military you lean to obey, to lead, discipline,
and respect. Take the military framework and apply it to youth, subtract
all the guns and bombs, and you get a program that cannot be matched by
any other. I‘m not a crazy war-child. I don‘t think killing people is cool.
I‘d like to enter the forces after university the reserves while I‘m at
school not because to quote a line from Full Metal Jacket "I want
ot travel to interesting lands and meet exotic people, and kill them."
but because I believe in what they do and because the career would
seem to be challenging and interesting.
I‘m sorry, but I have been in cadets too long and seen the things it
has done for people and myself to agree with you.
ghallman wrote:
Woa man I don‘t even want to touch that one. Of course
cadets aren‘t like
the Hitler Youth but I think there are a lot of kids out there who
would
want to learn what they were taught excluding the Facsim of course.
We
being adults have to look out for kids and I don‘t believe that we
should
teach them how to be soldiers. There are too many children out
there who
have been forced into fighting for a cause they don‘t share or understand.
My point. Canada does not need a military orientated children‘s
organization and Canada‘s children do not need to be taught how to
be young
soldiers.
--------------C0A59D83A896E26CD57A47B0--
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----------



## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 00:51:33  0000*
Yah I know. I have heard of cadets thinking that because they are a cadet Sgt.
they outrank and reg. force or militia cpl. or private. That‘s one thing they
don‘t formally teach in cadets is our role with respect to the real military.
Where you fit in. Where we fit in. I have always gone out of my way to explain
to junior cadets how to properly act on CFB‘s or when around real military
personal. But it‘s not taught formally.
Violance is not taught in cadets either. Putting a uniform on a kid give him/her
a bit of responsability and a bit of pride. Makes them fell like they are part
of something worthwhile. The only weapons we use in air cadets is air rifles for
range. Most kids where I live have experience hunting with real guns. Shooting
is a fine art and takes lots of practice and discipline to become good at. I
think it should be taught among youth as a form of discipline, another thing for
them to be pround of.
Some people might argue that as a member of the CF reserve even it‘s
hypocritical for you to argue that violance is the problem.
ghallman wrote:
> Yeah I have to agree with that, its wrong to stereotype but I‘ve ran into a
> lot of cadets who think they out rank me because I‘m a militia private and
> they‘re say an airforce warrent.  I‘ve also been saluted a few times.  Oh
> well, I‘m getting sick of all this.  I just would like to see the military
> to be a better place to be.  Violence is problem in the world today and I
> think that we must teach the youth that it is wrong. Its odd to tell a kid
> not to fight all of his life and then let them or put them in a military
> type organization to teach them to be good citizens.  Along the way they
> will learn how to use weapons but still its wrong to put them into use for
> what they are designed to do.  Theres a vicious cycle that we are in.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 15:52:39 -0300*
You aren‘t very good at reading between the lines.  We should be proud that
we live in a society where it isn‘t nescessary to have everyone join the
military at 18 so that if we are attacked we can defend ourselves.  Yet if
we did have that system enplaced it would create a common bond between
Canadians and would produce a more peaceful society in Canada because our
the citizens of our country would be of a higher quality.
At 12:36 AM 19/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
> We aren‘t forcing kids to join. This is not western Africa or Nazi
>Germany. You said that in a previous message that you were for mandatory
>military service for all. Then in another message in reply to someone else
>you say that your pround to live in a society where not everyone has to be
>combatants. You say you want to keep kids away from the military, yet you
>support the government forcing them to serve.  I have gain through cadets,
>a great respect for the job that the Canadian Forces and professional
>servicemen and women all over the world do. I have gain self-respect,
>confidence, leadership skills, practical skills, and experiences that
>cannot be done elsewhere in other organizations. Cadets bring youth
>together who have similar interests. People make friends, gain confidence.
>Enough so that they are able to fight off the bad elements of our society.
>The military minus the combat skills has a lot of other skills to offer. In
>a country‘s military you lean to obey, to lead, discipline, and respect.
>Take the military framework and apply it to youth, subtract all the guns
>and bombs, and you get a program that cannot be matched by any other. I‘m
>not a crazy war-child. I don‘t think killing people is cool. I‘d like to
>enter the forces after university the reserves while I‘m at school not
>because to quote a line from Full Metal Jacket "I want ot travel to
>interesting lands and meet exotic people, and kill them." 
>but because I believe in what they do and because the career would seem to
>be challenging and interesting.  I‘m sorry, but I have been in cadets too
>long and seen the things it has done for people and myself to agree with
>you.  ghallman wrote: Woa man I don‘t even want to touch that one. Of
>course cadets aren‘t like 
>the Hitler Youth but I think there are a lot of kids out there who would 
>  We 
>being adults have to look out for kids and I don‘t believe that we should 
>  There are too many children out there who 
>have been forced into fighting for a cause they don‘t share or understand. 
>  Canada does not need a military orientated children‘s 
>organization and Canada‘s children do not need to be taught how to be young 
>soldiers.
>  
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 12:33:16 -0700*
>You‘re supposed to be rebuilt well I guess the whole breaking down and
rebuilding process isn‘t really used anymore into a soldier.
You‘re confusing us with the USMC.  We were never supposed to be like that.
Brad Sallows
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## army

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 12:40:31 -0700*
>You can‘t do any of that in the boy scouts
Don‘t underestimate Scouts.  I agree Cadets provide more, and more interesting
opportunities to learn certain skills pilot and so forth.  However, I‘ve
always found the basic fieldcraft and woods-savvy I learned in Scouts to be more
comprehensive than that of any ex-cadet reservist I‘ve encountered.
Brad Sallows
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----------



## army

Posted by *"kyle sharp" <sharpkyle@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 18:03:44 EDT*
nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self well it 
might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted that we 
are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and stuff 
like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob people 
and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and drill 
because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the Cadet 
movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have more 
youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and reserves 
come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go the 
army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and see 
how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>From: ghallman 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id 
>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by 
>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for army-outgoing 
>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]   
>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id 
>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca          
>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID 
>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for 
> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set sender 
>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>Message-Id: 
>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>In-Reply-To: 
>References: 
>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Precedence: bulk
>
>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my opinion.  Go
>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better then
>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other then
>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you cadets
>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think so.
>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time getting
>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>
> >To Kyle and Trevor,
> >
> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend ghallman, 
>he
>seems
> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously 
>stupid,
>then
> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, flame 
>baiting
> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit about 
>their
> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there have
> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better to 
>do
>than
> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel 
>superior...
> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually ever
>had any
> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and bizarre
>ideas,
> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
> >
> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
> >
> >
> >kyle sharp wrote:
> >
> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching 
>kids
> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i 
>have
> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet 
>leguie
> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey 
>man
> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. 
>thanks
> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
> >>
> >> >From: ghallman 
> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for 
>army-outgoing
> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca 
>[198.164.200.18]
> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
>sender
> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >> >Message-Id: 
> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >> >In-Reply-To: 
> >> >References: 
> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >
> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >> >
> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >> >
> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  
>Teaching
> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t 
>think
> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 
>and
> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry 
>QL3
> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** 
>like
> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or 
>whatever.
> >> >
> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> >message body.
> >>
> >> 
>________________________________________________________________________
> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
>http://www.hotmail.com
> >>
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----------



## army

Posted by *Carl DINSDALE <joscol@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 05:12:24 -0500*
ghallman,
I‘m getting increasingly irate at your braggart type of opinions on being an
infanteer. If you were half as highly trained as you claim to be and had paid
more attention in your QL3, you‘d know that scrim is put on your helmet to break
up it‘s outline, not change the colour. Remember Michael O‘Leary‘s reminder on
why things are seen? I spent my entire six years in the RCR in the OD combats and
they were perfectly fine and the colour blended amazingly well with almost any
terrain. The bottom line is that clothing is not going to make up for individual
field craft skills, either you can sneak and peak, or you can‘t. Historically, I
can‘t recall very many confrontations won by the side with the best cam, but if
I‘m wrong by all means correct me.
ghallman wrote:
> I think that what you are trying to say is that nothing is perfect.  Of
> course there is no ultimate cam pattern.  There is no chameleon cam suit
> that changes color with its surroundings.
> But I do think that I will trust the opinion of the soldiers that did the
> testing and the overwhelming majority of soldiers in the world that believe
> in cam patterns.  If olive drab was such a good cam color then we wouldn‘t
> put vegetation on our helmets we‘d just just have an olive drab cover.
> Take a look at the forest, are trees completely olive drab.
> At 07:51 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
> >sure, the new cams are ugly but the thing that people don‘t realize is that
> >the new cams don‘t conceal as well as the current ones do. there was a man
> >from kingston who is a retired infantryman of a number of years who wrote an
> >article in the kingston Whig Standard about the comparison between the two.
> >he talked about how multi-colour cam is not necessarily the best. camouflage
> >is meant to conceal soldiers into the surroundings. good camouflage will
> >conceal soldiers into a multitude of surroundings. there was a study done
> >with cam from different countries. the brown and green cams from the states
> >are good for concealment in parts of the states. the grey and black cams in
> >switzerland conceals best in the mountainous swiss alps. but the study
> >concluded that the best camouflage scheme that conceals best in ANY type of
> >surrounding is plain ol‘ Olive Drab Green!!! don‘t believe me?? i‘ll scan
> >the article and send it to you!!
> >
> >
> >From: ghallman 
> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >Subject: RE: CADETS
> >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:22:54 -0300
> >
> >I think the general opinion on the new cam combats would be better if they
> >weren‘t so ugly.  But remember cam is designed to save lives not to look
> >cool in.
> >
> >
> >
> >At 09:28 AM 18/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> > >We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not
> >go
> > >down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
> > >clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
> > >
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > >message body.
> > >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
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> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
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> >
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300*
I think you should spend more time doing something physical and getting
tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re looking
to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the Regs or
Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a bit,
calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country you
know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but I
don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although they
sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining the
Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
counts towards pensionable years?  
At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self well it 
>might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted that we 
>are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and stuff 
>like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob people 
>and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and drill 
>because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the Cadet 
>movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have more 
>youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and reserves 
>come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go the 
>army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and see 
>how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>
>
>>From: ghallman 
>>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>Subject: Re: CADETS
>>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id 
>>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
>>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by 
>>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for army-outgoing 
>>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]   
>>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id 
>>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
>>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca          
>>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID 
>>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for 
>> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
>>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set sender 
>>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>>Message-Id: 
>>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>>In-Reply-To: 
>>References: 
>>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>Precedence: bulk
>>
>>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
>>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my opinion.  Go
>>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better then
>>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other then
>>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you cadets
>>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think so.
>>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time getting
>>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>>
>> >To Kyle and Trevor,
>> >
>> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend ghallman, 
>>he
>>seems
>> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously 
>>stupid,
>>then
>> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, flame 
>>baiting
>> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit about 
>>their
>> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there have
>> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better to 
>>do
>>than
>> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel 
>>superior...
>> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually ever
>>had any
>> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and bizarre
>>ideas,
>> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>> >
>> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>> >
>> >
>> >kyle sharp wrote:
>> >
>> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching 
>>kids
>> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i 
>>have
>> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet 
>>leguie
>> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey 
>>man
>> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. 
>>thanks
>> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
>> >>
>> >> >From: ghallman 
>> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
>> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
>> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for 
>>army-outgoing
>> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca 
>>[198.164.200.18]
>> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
>> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
>> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
>> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
>> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
>>sender
>> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>> >> >Message-Id: 
>> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>> >> >In-Reply-To: 
>> >> >References: 
>> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >> >Precedence: bulk
>> >> >
>> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>> >> >
>> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>> >> >
>> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  
>>Teaching
>> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t 
>>think
>> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
>> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
>> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 
>>and
>> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry 
>>QL3
>> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
>> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** 
>>like
>> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or 
>>whatever.
>> >> >
>> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >> >message body.
>> >>
>> >> 
>>________________________________________________________________________
>> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
>>http://www.hotmail.com
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >> message body.
>> >
>> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
>> >
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
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>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>
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----------



## army

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 19:37:45 -0300*
Obviously I realise that the scrim I have on my helmet is meant to breakup
the outline on the helmet and make it look like.....well not a helmet.  An
important part of this though is the shape, texture and color.  Scrim
provides 3 dimensional cam which blends in better with its surroundings.
In effect a cam pattern also provides 3 dimensional camouflage.  If the
great Olive Drab color was so versatile then we would not use darker colors
on the high points of our face to reduce shine.......the all powerful Olive
Drab would be enough.  I don‘t think I really have to acknowledge whether
or not battles in our past have been lost or won due to the side with the
best cam.  There are many factors which decide who will be the victor and
cam is one of them but to a lesser extent then others. What cam does is
save lives and if Canada‘s new Can. Pat. saves one soldier‘s life then I
think it is effective. From what I‘ve heard your precious olive drab
combats will still be used in garrison so don‘t have an aneurysm.
At 05:12 AM 20/05/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>ghallman,
>
>I‘m getting increasingly irate at your braggart type of opinions on being an
>infanteer. If you were half as highly trained as you claim to be and had paid
>more attention in your QL3, you‘d know that scrim is put on your helmet to
break
>up it‘s outline, not change the colour. Remember Michael O‘Leary‘s
reminder on
>why things are seen? I spent my entire six years in the RCR in the OD
combats and
>they were perfectly fine and the colour blended amazingly well with almost
any
>terrain. The bottom line is that clothing is not going to make up for
individual
>field craft skills, either you can sneak and peak, or you can‘t.
Historically, I
>can‘t recall very many confrontations won by the side with the best cam,
but if
>I‘m wrong by all means correct me.
>
>ghallman wrote:
>
>> I think that what you are trying to say is that nothing is perfect.  Of
>> course there is no ultimate cam pattern.  There is no chameleon cam suit
>> that changes color with its surroundings.
>> But I do think that I will trust the opinion of the soldiers that did the
>> testing and the overwhelming majority of soldiers in the world that believe
>> in cam patterns.  If olive drab was such a good cam color then we wouldn‘t
>> put vegetation on our helmets we‘d just just have an olive drab cover.
>> Take a look at the forest, are trees completely olive drab.
>> At 07:51 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
>> >sure, the new cams are ugly but the thing that people don‘t realize is
that
>> >the new cams don‘t conceal as well as the current ones do. there was a man
>> >from kingston who is a retired infantryman of a number of years who
wrote an
>> >article in the kingston Whig Standard about the comparison between the
two.
>> >he talked about how multi-colour cam is not necessarily the best.
camouflage
>> >is meant to conceal soldiers into the surroundings. good camouflage will
>> >conceal soldiers into a multitude of surroundings. there was a study done
>> >with cam from different countries. the brown and green cams from the
states
>> >are good for concealment in parts of the states. the grey and black
cams in
>> >switzerland conceals best in the mountainous swiss alps. but the study
>> >concluded that the best camouflage scheme that conceals best in ANY
type of
>> >surrounding is plain ol‘ Olive Drab Green!!! don‘t believe me?? i‘ll scan
>> >the article and send it to you!!
>> >
>> >
>> >From: ghallman 
>> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >Subject: RE: CADETS
>> >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:22:54 -0300
>> >
>> >I think the general opinion on the new cam combats would be better if they
>> >weren‘t so ugly.  But remember cam is designed to save lives not to look
>> >cool in.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >At 09:28 AM 18/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>> > >We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s
not
>> >go
>> > >down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
>> > >clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
>> > >
>> > >--------------------------------------------------------
>> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> > >message body.
>> > >
>> >
>> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >message body.
>> >
>> >________________________________________________________________________
>> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>> >
>> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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>> >
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
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>> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 15:41:14 -0700*
What Ql level does a private in the reserve hold.  Ql-3 is a reg
designation, is it not?  I remember, BTT STT, and ITT.  I also remember TQ
levels as a reg. force member.
The point of my letter is to agree with Carl.  Fancy uniforms and equipment
will never make up for hard training and motivation.  Not to denigrate out
neighbours to the south, but camo and modern weapons couldn‘t defeat a
determined and dedicated enemy then, and they won‘t now.  How well will
goretex hold up after weeks in the field with inadequate laundry facilities,
and limited replacements due to outlandish costs.  How many washings before
it loses it heat signature hiding ability.
Any thoughts, opinions or facts out there?
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl DINSDALE 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS
> ghallman,
>
> I‘m getting increasingly irate at your braggart type of opinions on being
an
> infanteer. If you were half as highly trained as you claim to be and had
paid
> more attention in your QL3, you‘d know that scrim is put on your helmet to
break
> up it‘s outline, not change the colour. Remember Michael O‘Leary‘s
reminder on
> why things are seen? I spent my entire six years in the RCR in the OD
combats and
> they were perfectly fine and the colour blended amazingly well with almost
any
> terrain. The bottom line is that clothing is not going to make up for
individual
> field craft skills, either you can sneak and peak, or you can‘t.
Historically, I
> can‘t recall very many confrontations won by the side with the best cam,
but if
> I‘m wrong by all means correct me.
>
> ghallman wrote:
>
> > I think that what you are trying to say is that nothing is perfect.  Of
> > course there is no ultimate cam pattern.  There is no chameleon cam suit
> > that changes color with its surroundings.
> > But I do think that I will trust the opinion of the soldiers that did
the
> > testing and the overwhelming majority of soldiers in the world that
believe
> > in cam patterns.  If olive drab was such a good cam color then we
wouldn‘t
> > put vegetation on our helmets we‘d just just have an olive drab cover.
> > Take a look at the forest, are trees completely olive drab.
> > At 07:51 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
> > >sure, the new cams are ugly but the thing that people don‘t realize is
that
> > >the new cams don‘t conceal as well as the current ones do. there was a
man
> > >from kingston who is a retired infantryman of a number of years who
wrote an
> > >article in the kingston Whig Standard about the comparison between the
two.
> > >he talked about how multi-colour cam is not necessarily the best.
camouflage
> > >is meant to conceal soldiers into the surroundings. good camouflage
will
> > >conceal soldiers into a multitude of surroundings. there was a study
done
> > >with cam from different countries. the brown and green cams from the
states
> > >are good for concealment in parts of the states. the grey and black
cams in
> > >switzerland conceals best in the mountainous swiss alps. but the study
> > >concluded that the best camouflage scheme that conceals best in ANY
type of
> > >surrounding is plain ol‘ Olive Drab Green!!! don‘t believe me?? i‘ll
scan
> > >the article and send it to you!!
> > >
> > >
> > >From: ghallman 
> > >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > >Subject: RE: CADETS
> > >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:22:54 -0300
> > >
> > >I think the general opinion on the new cam combats would be better if
they
> > >weren‘t so ugly.  But remember cam is designed to save lives not to
look
> > >cool in.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >At 09:28 AM 18/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> > > >We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s
not
> > >go
> > > >down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern
combat
> > > >clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
> > > >
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## army

Posted by *Gunner <randr1@home.com>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 17:14:19 -0600*
Reg and Res qualification courses hold the same designations. For
example, QL2 is basic recruit trg, QL3 is basic trades training, QL 4 is
your trade specialty training ie comms, gunner, dvr, arty tech, etc. 
I agree with your other comments.  You know, the combat clothing we had
prior to IECS was alright...it was cheap, durable, warm, etc I always
stated that minus 40 in 1950, is the same as  -40 in 1990.  However,
with the new fabrics and technology, you get lighter weight clothing
that is more functional, albeit, at an increased cost.  Based on
experiences hiking, etc, I think the new IECS polar fleece and goretex
will stand up really well in the field although I admit I haven‘t used
it in the field as I just got it 6 weeks ago.  
dave wrote:
> 
> What Ql level does a private in the reserve hold.  Ql-3 is a reg
> designation, is it not?  I remember, BTT STT, and ITT.  I also remember TQ
> levels as a reg. force member.
> The point of my letter is to agree with Carl.  Fancy uniforms and equipment
> will never make up for hard training and motivation.  Not to denigrate out
> neighbours to the south, but camo and modern weapons couldn‘t defeat a
> determined and dedicated enemy then, and they won‘t now.  How well will
> goretex hold up after weeks in the field with inadequate laundry facilities,
> and limited replacements due to outlandish costs.  How many washings before
> it loses it heat signature hiding ability.
> Any thoughts, opinions or facts out there?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carl DINSDALE 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 3:12 AM
> Subject: Re: CADETS
> 
> > ghallman,
> >
> > I‘m getting increasingly irate at your braggart type of opinions on being
> an
> > infanteer. If you were half as highly trained as you claim to be and had
> paid
> > more attention in your QL3, you‘d know that scrim is put on your helmet to
> break
> > up it‘s outline, not change the colour. Remember Michael O‘Leary‘s
> reminder on
> > why things are seen? I spent my entire six years in the RCR in the OD
> combats and
> > they were perfectly fine and the colour blended amazingly well with almost
> any
> > terrain. The bottom line is that clothing is not going to make up for
> individual
> > field craft skills, either you can sneak and peak, or you can‘t.
> Historically, I
> > can‘t recall very many confrontations won by the side with the best cam,
> but if
> > I‘m wrong by all means correct me.
> >
> > ghallman wrote:
> >
> > > I think that what you are trying to say is that nothing is perfect.  Of
> > > course there is no ultimate cam pattern.  There is no chameleon cam suit
> > > that changes color with its surroundings.
> > > But I do think that I will trust the opinion of the soldiers that did
> the
> > > testing and the overwhelming majority of soldiers in the world that
> believe
> > > in cam patterns.  If olive drab was such a good cam color then we
> wouldn‘t
> > > put vegetation on our helmets we‘d just just have an olive drab cover.
> > > Take a look at the forest, are trees completely olive drab.
> > > At 07:51 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
> > > >sure, the new cams are ugly but the thing that people don‘t realize is
> that
> > > >the new cams don‘t conceal as well as the current ones do. there was a
> man
> > > >from kingston who is a retired infantryman of a number of years who
> wrote an
> > > >article in the kingston Whig Standard about the comparison between the
> two.
> > > >he talked about how multi-colour cam is not necessarily the best.
> camouflage
> > > >is meant to conceal soldiers into the surroundings. good camouflage
> will
> > > >conceal soldiers into a multitude of surroundings. there was a study
> done
> > > >with cam from different countries. the brown and green cams from the
> states
> > > >are good for concealment in parts of the states. the grey and black
> cams in
> > > >switzerland conceals best in the mountainous swiss alps. but the study
> > > >concluded that the best camouflage scheme that conceals best in ANY
> type of
> > > >surrounding is plain ol‘ Olive Drab Green!!! don‘t believe me?? i‘ll
> scan
> > > >the article and send it to you!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >From: ghallman 
> > > >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > > >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > > >Subject: RE: CADETS
> > > >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:22:54 -0300
> > > >
> > > >I think the general opinion on the new cam combats would be better if
> they
> > > >weren‘t so ugly.  But remember cam is designed to save lives not to
> look
> > > >cool in.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >At 09:28 AM 18/05/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> > > > >We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s
> not
> > > >go
> > > > >down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern
> combat
> > > > >clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
> > > > >
> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
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## army

Posted by *"Dave Kenney" <cao@lf.ab.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 17:29:05 -0600*
>I‘ve always found the basic fieldcraft and woods-savvy I learned in Scouts
to be more
comprehensive than that of any ex-cadet reservist I‘ve encountered.
I agree.  The mapcompass, first aid, bushcraft, knotslashings etc that I
teach to my cadets, I first learned in Wolf Cubs @ 9 yrs old.  The major
difference is the program.  Fieldcraft and woods-savvy is what the Scouting
program has historically been about.  Cadets have a different emphasis.  The
goals of cadets are:  1  teach citizenship/leadership, 2 promote physical
fitness and 3 stimulate an interest in the Canadian Forces.  It is done in
the environment of a military organization, with the activities that are
available locally.
The activities that a cadet takes part in are limited by the expertise of
the staff as well as what is available in the community.  The support of an
affiliated unit is also important.
For example:  if an Army Cadet Corps is affiliated with 1st Field Ambulance,
it is likely that they will do more first aid training than other Corps
affiliated with an infantry unit or artillery unit.  If the Corps training
officer is an ex PPCLI patrolman, than the Corps will probably do more
patrolling than a Corps where the Officers are ex Military Police or
mechanics.  Being CIC with a military background does not guarantee an
interesting or effective program.  What is available in the community?  What
facilities are available locally?  Being in a big city or near a CF base
makes a big difference over the Corps in a small town in the middle of
nowhere.  Does the Corps parade in an armouries or in the local high-school?
The environment may set the pace for activities.  How is the support of the
sponsor?  Does the Corps have access to funds for extra kit or training?
If the Cadet Corps is Air, do they have their own link trainer?  Are they
near an air base?  Is the Sea Cadet Corps near water with docking
facilities?
Is there a ready supply of new volunteer staff for the Corps?  Or are the
serving officers burnt out from having done it for too long?
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## army

Posted by *"Dave Kenney" <cao@lf.ab.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 18:25:02 -0600*
   >having a kid with a rank on his arm and a chip on his shoulder
  It doesn‘t require a cadet organization to get to this point.  There are
folks of all ages in a variety of organizations who have this problem.
  The problem in the cadet system is that we are working with teenagers.
Seniors cadets teach the junior cadets, under the supervision of CIC staff
and volunteers.  The whole point and goal of the cadet system is to teach
citizenship/leadership.  Why?  Because the typical teenager needs to be
taught.  If our cadets didn‘t need to learn these skills, then the program
would be vastly different.  Teaching a teenager to be an outstanding leader
and valued member of society does not come overnight.  From age 12-19,
cadets are taught increasing levels of responsibility.  Some learn faster
than others.  But the program utilizes those learning cadets to help other
cadets.  That is the environment that they are taught in and practice their
lessons in.
  Some cadets bring a lot of baggage from home with them.  At home they
could be a family of screamers.  Or they could be as timid as the proverbial
church mouse.  Some are very moral and some are socially challenged.  We
work with all of these teens.  Each takes careful attention and patience.
Some of the CIC staff and volunteers have the same problems.  We who work
with cadets need to be aware of our purpose - to "develop" citizenship in
the youth we have.  This takes time and along the way, there are many
frustrations.  Unlike the CF where there are PERs, postings,  training
courses, and Code of Service Discipline etc, the cadets have very little to
assist them because they are not part of the military.  "Career" advancement
is rapid in the cadet world because of the short time we have them.  It is
not unusual to have a 16 yr old MWO who looks like he would cry if you said
boo.  It is also not unusual to have a 13 yr recruit who already acts like
an RSM.  Or the other way around.  Sometimes, through the luck of the draw,
we go through several years where the potential of the cadet recruits is
fantastic, while on other years there is very little leadership potential.
We have no control over our raw material.
  Sometimes parents or parent committes think they run the Corps and cause
the CIC staff and volunteers nothing but grief.  The Sea, Army and Air Cadet
Leagues function differently and have different levels of involvement in the
Corps of their respective elements.  Some Sponsors are very active with
their Corsp, and some what no involvement other than having their name
associated with a youth group.
  The element of the Cadet unit Sea, Land or Air may be a factor in the
type of support received from Cadet Headquarters.  Does the Army Corps under
Air Command receive the same kind of attention, interest, training etc as
the Air Squadrons under the same command?
  Yes there are standard programs for Cadets, but the interpretation and
implementation around the country is different, depending on the situation.
Don‘t let anybody put down the program because of a limited view.
  gthaving a kid with a 
rank on his
  arm and a chip on his shoulder
  It
  doesn‘t require a cadet organization to get to this point. There 
are
  folks of all ages in a variety of organizations who have this 
problem.

  The
  problem in the cadet system is that we are working with teenagers. 
Seniors
  cadets teach the junior cadets, under the supervision of CIC staff and 
  volunteers. The whole point and goal of the cadet system is to 
teach
  citizenship/leadership. Why? Because the typical teenager 
needs to
  be taught. If our cadets didn‘t need to learn these skills, then 
the
  program would be vastly different. Teaching a teenager to be an
  outstanding leader and valued member of society does not come 
overnight.
  From age 12-19, cadets are taught increasing levels of 
responsibility.
  Some learn faster than others. But the program utilizes those 
learning
  cadets to help other cadets. That is the environment that they 
are
  taught in and practice their lessons in. 
  Some
  cadets bring a lot of baggage from home with them. At home they 
could be
  a family of screamers. Or they could be as timid as the 
proverbial
  church mouse. Some are very moral and some are socially
  challenged. We work withall of these teens. Each 
takes
  careful attention and patience. Some of the CIC staff and 
volunteers
  have the same problems. We who work with cadets need to be aware 
  ofour purpose - to "develop" citizenship in the youth we 
have.
  This takes time and along the way, there are many frustrations. 
Unlike
  the CF where there are PERs, postings, training courses, and 
Code of
  Service Discipline etc, the cadets have very little to assist them 
because
  they are not part of the military. "Career" advancement is rapid 
in the
  cadet world because of the short time we have them. It is not 
unusual to
  have a 16 yr old MWO who looks like he would cry if you said 
boo. It is
  also not unusual to have a 13 yr recruit who already acts like an 
RSM.
  Or the other way around. Sometimes, through the luck of the 
draw, we go
  through several years where the potential of the cadet recruits is 
fantastic,
  while on other years there is very little leadership potential. 
We have
  no control over our raw material.
  Sometimes parents or parent committes think 
they run
  the Corps and cause the CIC staff and volunteers nothing but 
grief. The
  Sea, Army and Air Cadet Leagues function differently and have 
different levels
  of involvement in the Corps of their respective elements. Some 
Sponsors
  are very active with their Corsp, and some what no involvement other 
than
  having their name associated with a youth group.
  The
  element of theCadet unit Sea, Land or Air may be a factor in 
the type
  of support received from Cadet Headquarters. Does the Army Corps 
under
  Air Command receive the same kind of attention, interest, training etc 
as the
  Air Squadrons under the same command?
  Yes
  there are standard programs for Cadets, but the interpretation and
  implementation around the country is different, depending on the
  situation. Don‘t let anybody put down the program because of a 
limited
  view.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Dave Kenney" <cao@lf.ab.ca>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 18:33:11 -0600*
>kids join cadets for a reason and that reason is to gain MILITARY
experience,
I‘ve been a CIC officer for 20 years.  As new recruits come in I interview
them and I ask each one the same questions -
"What is it that attracted you to cadets?"
"Why did you come here to sign up?"
"What is it you think we do?"
In answer, they‘ve told me that they came for:
discipline, drill, camping, shooting, a friend brought them, summer camp,
dad was a cadet, mom made me, or they were interested in joining the CF some
day and they thought cadets was a good place to start.
In all those years, I have never had anyone tell me they came for the
military experience itself.
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## army

Posted by *The Moose <the.moose@home.com>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 21:18:34 -0400*
>What Ql level does a private in the reserve hold.  Ql-3 is a reg
>designation, is it not?
A private in the reserves can hold the same QL levels as reg force.
QL-2 ---> Basic Training
QL-3 ---> Trade specific training
QL-4 ---> Advanced specialty eg driver, comms
The reservists are basically the same as the reg force, but we do it part 
time instead of full time
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## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 23:14:56 PDT*
just a point......how are your views correct? nobody‘s views are correct 
because everyone has different views for the most part. what you see as 
righteous and just may be immoral and disgraceful to someone else. your 
views are just that......YOUR views. nothing more, nothing less.
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:27:49 -0300
The purose of expressing your views is too better something that has gone
wrong.  If you don‘t think that there are problems in the CF in all areas
then you‘re blind and ignorant.  My views might be radical and I could be
pissing people off, well sorry but I love the CF but I am discusted at what
I see around me.  Everyone is upset about the reserve restructureing and
units being basically labeled as a waste of money but from what I‘ve seen
the funds from the reserves could be used to greater effect in the Regs.
If you had a problem with units being disbanded to divert funds to the
Regs. so that say the Airborne Regiment could be established again then you
don‘t care much about the greater good of the CF.  Am I saying that I think
my regiment and others should be disbanded?  No, the problems should be
worked out and we should start training for combat.  As far me being a
traitor I think you‘re the one who has no idea what hes talking about.  I
call for reform in the CF on all levels.  What I, and others, would like to
see is the Army that our fathers and senior NCO‘s speak of and remember
fondly.  I am completely the opposite of what you say I am. I love the
Army, believe in what it stands for but there are many problems that have
arose out of the end of the Cold War.  Hopefully some day I will be able to
try to make the CF a better place to be a soldier and the family of a
soldier.  I, The Moose, am a Canadian Patriot.  I‘d die for my country if
it came to that.  There is nothing wrong with critisizing something that
you wish to improve.  The point that seems to be the most conflicting is
that I do not think that Canada should have its own para-military type
youth organization.  I‘m not anti-military but I do think that kids should
be left to do what kids do.  There are many ways to learn the same things
that are taught in cadets without haveing a kid with rank on his arm and a
chip on his/her sholder teach it to our children.  I actually think that
all people should have to go trough a stint in the military such as what is
done in Isreal because it instills good morals and values and creates a
common bond between the citizens of the country.  I don‘t care about what
you think of me because I believe that my views are correct and they will
remain the same until I am witness to different and I hope with all my
heart that some day I see different.
At 06:13 PM 18/05/2000 -0400, you wrote:
 >   I am a cadet and a reservist.
 > I take much offence to your uninformed views.
 > "" ****, are you a Canadian? or some traitor who is not faithful to her
 >majesty the queen????
 >""    Paintball is also been removed as a acceptable event for cadets due
 >to safety reasons.
 >   A soldier does not go around bashing other military programs.
 > Please know something about what you are talking about before you speak
 >next time.
 > Like i said, I have no respect for you.
 >
 > You said:
 >"Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth. Teaching
 > kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t think
 > that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
 > This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
 > prejudiced point of view. I started playing paintball when I was 12 and
 > joined the militia when I was 17. A lot of the people on my infantry QL3
 > were to immature to be learning what they were learning. I think we
 > should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** like
 >"
 >
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 23:23:11 PDT*
whoah!! i‘m on your side with all of the cadet ideas, but watch what you 
say! i agree with the gov‘t wasting $$$ on welfare, but the natives were 
here first and deserve compensation for their ill treatment over the past 
couple hundred years and also i think bilingualism is a very important part 
of our heritage and should remain a key element in canada. i am french in 
heritage, but do not speak it very well, but i still think that bilingualism 
is very important to both languages.
From: Albert King 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:55:02  0000
Atlantic Area. I live in Manitoba although born in Newfoundland and last 
summer
I spent 6 weeks in Greenwood Nova Scotia at a survival instructors course 
and I
never once saw any resembelence of "Hitler Youth." There was no combat 
training,
no paintball, nothing of the sort.
Before you go and take money out of cadets, mabye you should start with the
billions upon billions that our federal and provincial governments waste 
already
on socialized medicine, indians, bilingualism, welfare, ect...
ghallman wrote:
 > Go back to Junior High and learn how to spell.  My opinion is based on 
the
 > cadets I‘ve seen from around the Atlantic Area and based on things I‘ve
 > seen and things I‘ve heard of.
 > That was a joke about ****ty on the street, my dad had to **** on the
 > street during a parade in Egypt but hey he was a career bleep so there 
you
 > go.   I think that most people would agree that cadets are a waste of
 > funding that could go to the Reg. Forces, the same with the Reserves.  
Yes
 > I am in the Reserves and it is my opinion that it is a waste of money.  I
 > have to agree with that politician when she/he said that reservists are
 > nothing but glorified boy scouts.
 >
 > At 12:15 AM 18/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
 > >hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching 
kids
 > >to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i 
have
 > >ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet 
leguie
 > >will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey 
man
 > >and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory. 
thanks
 > >for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
 > >
 > >
 > >>From: ghallman 
 > >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > >>Subject: Re: CADETS
 > >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
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 > >>References: 
 > >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > >>Precedence: bulk
 > >>
 > >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
 > >>
 > >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
 > >>
 > >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
 > >>
 > >>
 > >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.  
Teaching
 > >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t 
think
 > >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
 > >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
 > >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 
and
 > >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry 
QL3
 > >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
 > >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** 
like
 > >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or 
whatever.
 > >>
 > >>--------------------------------------------------------
 > >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 > >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 > >>message body.
 > >
 > >________________________________________________________________________
 > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
 > >
 > >--------------------------------------------------------
 > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 > >message body.
 > >
 >
 > --------------------------------------------------------
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 > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 23:31:22 PDT*
i‘ll say this again.
a guy who is from kingston who was in the infantry for 20-some-odd years did 
a whole article comparing the two cam schemes. you see, the new pattern cam 
does work great! the only thing is that it works great in the areas it was 
designed in canada. if you notice, the trees and vegetation in canada 
greatly differ from what it‘s like in england, australia, africa, and even 
somewhat differs from the US. on the other hand, the OD cam works well in a 
variety of surroundings, making it a better all-around camouflage scheme.
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: RE: CADETS
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 01:30:32 -0300
So how much time do you have in as an infantryman?  I‘m sorry that it
doesn‘t look cool enough for you.  From what I‘ve heard someone correct me
if I‘m wrong the OD combats will become garrison dress while the new Can.
Pat. will be for field use only.
At 08:06 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
 >yeah....sure it looks really cool and it may conceal you from sattellites
 >with all those funky, cool, high-tech little square **** on it, but how 
well
 >do you think it will conceal you from an enemy force on the ground?? i 
like
 >the idea of all the high-speed gortex ****, but at least keep it in OD
 >Green. the new cam design sucks ****! .....read my last message on the new
 >cams.
 >
 >
 >From: The Moose 
 >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >Subject: RE: CADETS
 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:19:41 -0400
 >
 >
 >>We‘re getting camo kit - soon some regs already have it - but let‘s not
 >>go
 >>down that road - I adm personally a fan of the current OD pattern combat
 >>clothes - a better all purpose uniform in my humble opinion
 >
 >Well, as much as I "LOVE" the current combats, all the new stuff with all
 >the gortex and all that, makes living and fighting in the field a bit more
 >comfy, and the digi pattern is kinda cool.
 >I like it, and the pieces I have are pretty good.
 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
 >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >message body.
 >
 >________________________________________________________________________
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 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
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 >message body.
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 23:51:21 PDT*
ok, look....this just goes to prove my point that you don‘t look at things 
before you talk about them. i‘m NOT in cadets. i used to be, but not 
anymore. i am now a proud member of the PWOR. now, there are three main aims 
of the cadet organization: 1to promote physical fitness 2to instill 
qualities of good leadership and citizenship and 3to stimulate interest in 
the CF. you obviously know no cadets or if you do, they are only newbies 
and have no real experience because cadets is an excellent place to go to 
gain military knowledge and experience to join the CF. have you looked at a 
CF application form lately? there‘s a whole section for the applicant to 
write down any cadet experience training courses, rank achieved, position 
in unit, etc. cadets is obviously a plus to those who have it, or else it 
wouldn‘t be included on the CF application forms!!!! cadets does plenty to 
prepare people for the "real" military. there was a guy who was the chief 
warrant officer of my cadet sqn and was accepted into RMC. he came back from 
BOTC and told me that all the stuff they taught him was "strikingly similar 
to what they taught us in cadets". so, you see, the stuff taught in cadets 
is very useful and cadets is not a waste. he finished top in his platoon on 
BOTC and accredits it to his cadet experience. now, i think you should drop 
this whole thing. take it from an ex-cadet who is now a member of the CF. 
CADETS DOES PROVIDE VALUABLE MILITARY EXPERIENCE!!!! i breezed through my 
QL2 course thanks to cadets. i already knew all the drill, most of the 
general service knowledge, weapons handling and firing, first aid and how to 
live in the field!!! yes....i learned all of that through cadets. all of the 
basics taught to any soldier in the QL2 course is taught through the cadet 
system. you have never been a cadet, you don‘t know at all what it‘s like. 
that‘s about all i have to say.
by the way, when you say "there are better things in life that will prepare 
you for life as a soldier than cadets", what the ****  kinds of things would 
those be??????? i‘d really like to hear this one!!
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 01:27:33 -0300
So are you trying to say the point of the Cadets is to recruit for the CF.
Hummm  that kinda proves my point in a way but not totally and I‘m sure
you‘ll come up with something that conflicts with what you said.  What the
****  do you think most recruits go through when they begin basic, a culture
shock, which is all part of the training.  You‘re supposed to be rebuilt
well I guess the whole breaking down and rebuilding process isn‘t really
used anymore into a soldier.  Why do you think young teens need military
experience, incase of war so they can be called up?  What does that sound
like?  I‘m guessing that you‘re a cadet, a very gung ho one that wants to
be a super soldier by the time he gets out of cadets so he can breeze right
through his training to join the Regs.  I know enough cadets to know for
sure that cadets does not prepare you for the "real" military and it
shouldn‘t.  We shouldn‘t grow our youth to become soldiers.  That should be
the choice of young men and women.  We no longer live in a society where it
is necessary for all to posses combat skills and I for one am proud of
that.  I know that for some of my views I am in the minority but you should
remember that people used to believe that the world was flat.  Did that
make the few who believed the world is round wrong?  I don‘t think so.
Take my advice kid, there are many things out there that will prepare you
for life as a soldier other then cadets.
At 08:02 PM 18/05/2000 PDT, you wrote:
 >the whole idea of cadets is to give them viable military training in order
 >to stimulate an interest in the CF so that they‘ll hopefully join someday.
 >how are teenagres supposed to get the military experience if you "just let
 >them be kids"??? if you baby a cadet for their whole time as a cadet, when
 >they decide to go into the CF, they won‘t be able to survive!! talk about
 >culture shock!! i mean come on!!! i can tell you that if a cadet was to
 >leave right now, having the impression that the CF won‘t be too much
 >different than what cadets was like, and joined the CF....they wouldn‘t be
 >able to make it!!!! even though the CF has softened up lately, cadets 
going
 >from a soft, cushy, lovey-dovey environment to a tough, serious, dangerous
 >one such as the infantry, or something, they wouldn‘t last a day! i‘m 
trying
 >to say that you‘re wrong when you say "let them be kids". kids join cadets
 >for a reason and that reason is to gain MILITARY experience, god dammit! 
and
 >i don‘t think boy scouts or girl scouts....not to be sexist is 
sufficient
 >"military" experience!!!!!!
 >
 >
 >From: ghallman 
 >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >Subject: Re: CADETS
 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:29:02 -0300
 >
 >I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are soft.
 >THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
 >Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go around
 >setting fires or something.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >At 03:06 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
 > >You said that cadets has been the same as it always has. That it has 
never
 > >gotten soft. I certainly have to disagree with you. I joined in 1995 and 
I
 >can
 > >notice differences in standards and expectations since then. When former
 >cadets
 > >and officers tell me that it was once a lot stricter, I‘m inclined to
 >believe
 > >them.
 > >
 > >Everywhere I go, every camp I have been too, people tell me it has 
become
 >more
 > >relaxed. I have seen it myself. It‘s going on in the entire Armed 
Forces.
 >I hear
 > >professional soldiers complaining about it.
 > >
 > >I do agree with you that there is no accountability on what the CO does.
 >As long
 > >as it not illegal. As for committes making promotion decisions, the only
 > >committees ever involved are with the Warrent Officer ranks. They have a
 >big
 > >natrional listing of all who qualify and any Warrent Officer promotions
 >have to
 > >go through the local squadron‘s sponsering committe who can only really
 > >recommend. In the end, the CO has the final say.
 > >
 > >Scott Lloyd wrote:
 > >
 > >> Good Afternoon everyone,
 > >>     It seems that everyone is replying to this subject. Not to be left
 >out,
 > >> I thought that I would put my two cents worth into the conversation.
 > >>     Let me say that the Canadian Cadet Organization, in my humble
 >opinion,
 > >> is the best youth organization in Canada. Notwithstanding, there are
 > >> problems. I address the adult leadership of the Cadet Corps/Sqn. In
 >order
 > >> for a Cadet unit to work the leadership must be a fine balence between
 > >> former military, community leaders, and parents. What you cadets must
 > >> understand is sometimes this balance is not there. In reality, 
decisions
 >in
 > >> the Cadet corps must be made in almost a commitee style, this protects
 >the
 > >> fairness of the system.  In the real military,a leader is accountable
 >and
 > >> responsible to his subordinates, these people trust him to be fair and
 > >> honest, in other words its his duty, a duty most military leader take
 >very
 > >> seriously. Alternatively, an officer in cadets is accountable to
 >vitually no
 > >> one, If the do not take their job seriously. Decisions are freely made
 >under
 > >> the guise of the Office of CO.  TO add to that point, I don‘t believe
 >Cadets
 > >> should become CIC officers until they are older, not by months but by
 >years.
 > >> Nor should the CIC be members of the CFbut thats another E-mail
 > >>     The second point I would like to address is the promotion system 
in
 > >> Cadets. Yes, occasionally they promote kids whose parents are friends 
of
 > >> officers. This is because promotions within Cadets do not have to be
 > >> justified. I understand your complaints because, many years ago when I
 >was
 > >> in cadets I felt as you did about promotions, but remember, to those 
who
 > >> have earned it it means all the more. Later, on in life it won‘t be 
that
 >big
 > >> of a thing. One thing cadets may not always see is the justification 
for
 > >> these promotions, in about 50 of the cases there are legitimate
 >reasons.
 > >>     Cadets enjoy it for what it is, don‘t say it has gotten week 
because
 > >> that‘s what your told, from some senior cadet who is trying to prove 
his
 > >> toughness or tell war stories. Lastly, do not equate directly military
 >and
 > >> war.... Cadets can be military without playing war...
 > >> UBIQUE
 > >> Scott
 > >
 > >--------------------------------------------------------
 > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 > >message body.
 > >
 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
 >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >message body.
 >
 >________________________________________________________________________
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 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 23:55:08 PDT*
i don‘t know if i want to touch THIS one either. you have to get it through 
your thick skull that cadets doesn‘t teach teenagers how to be 
soldiers.....it teaches them the basics of the military so that, if they so 
choose, they will have a head start when they do join the CF. so stop saying 
**** like "canada doesn‘t need to train children to be soldiers" because 
that‘s not what it is at all!!!! lose the misconceptions. know what you‘re 
talking about before you speak!!!!!
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 01:41:36 -0300
Woa man I don‘t even want to touch that one. Of course cadets aren‘t like
the Hitler Youth but I think there are a lot of kids out there who would
want to learn what they were taught excluding the Facsim of course.  We
being adults have to look out for kids and I don‘t believe that we should
teach them how to be soldiers.  There are too many children out there who
have been forced into fighting for a cause they don‘t share or understand.
My point.  Canada does not need a military orientated children‘s
organization and Canada‘s children do not need to be taught how to be young
soldiers.
At 10:55 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
 >Atlantic Area. I live in Manitoba although born in Newfoundland and last
summer
 >I spent 6 weeks in Greenwood Nova Scotia at a survival instructors course
and I
 >never once saw any resembelence of "Hitler Youth." There was no combat
training,
 >no paintball, nothing of the sort.
 >
 >Before you go and take money out of cadets, mabye you should start with 
the
 >billions upon billions that our federal and provincial governments waste
already
 >on socialized medicine, indians, bilingualism, welfare, ect...
 >
 >ghallman wrote:
 >
 >> Go back to Junior High and learn how to spell.  My opinion is based on 
the
 >> cadets I‘ve seen from around the Atlantic Area and based on things I‘ve
 >> seen and things I‘ve heard of.
 >> That was a joke about ****ty on the street, my dad had to **** on the
 >> street during a parade in Egypt but hey he was a career bleep so there 
you
 >> go.   I think that most people would agree that cadets are a waste of
 >> funding that could go to the Reg. Forces, the same with the Reserves.  
Yes
 >> I am in the Reserves and it is my opinion that it is a waste of money.  
I
 >> have to agree with that politician when she/he said that reservists are
 >> nothing but glorified boy scouts.
 >>
 >> At 12:15 AM 18/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
 >> >hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching 
kids
 >> >to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i 
have
 >> >ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet
leguie
 >> >will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an infendrey 
man
 >> >and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory.
thanks
 >> >for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
 >> >
 >> >
 >> >>From: ghallman 
 >> >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >> >>Subject: Re: CADETS
 >> >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
 >> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
 >> >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
 >> >>MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
 >> >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
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army-outgoing
 >> >>Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
 >> >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca 
[198.164.200.18]
 >> >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
 >> >>UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 -0400
 >> >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >> >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >> >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >> >> Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
 >> >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
 >> >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
sender
 >> >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >> >>Message-Id: 
 >> >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >> >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >> >>In-Reply-To: 
 >> >>References: 
 >> >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >> >>Precedence: bulk
 >> >>
 >> >>you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
 >> >>
 >> >>Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
 >> >>
 >> >>A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the street.
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >> >>Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
Teaching
 >> >>kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t 
think
 >> >>that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball guns.
 >> >>This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have a
 >> >>prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12 
and
 >> >>joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my infantry 
QL3
 >> >>were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think we
 >> >>should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and **** 
like
 >> >>that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or 
whatever.
 >> >>
 >> >>--------------------------------------------------------
 >> >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >> >>message body.
 >> >
 >> 
 >________________________________________________________________________
 >> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
 http://www.hotmail.com 
 >> >
 >> >--------------------------------------------------------
 >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >> >message body.
 >> >
 >>
 >> --------------------------------------------------------
 >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >> message body.
 >
 >
 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
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 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 23:57:38 PDT*
i have to totally agree with everything you‘ve said. well worded, too.
From: Albert King 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:26:24  0000
Listen to your own words buddy. Kids play paintball, kids play capture the 
flag.
The vast majority of kids do stuff like that. Most kids don‘t join gangs or 
shoot
up schools.
Training in cadets should be harder then the boy scouts or whatever the 
civvie
equal is. Cadets provides youth with a MILITARY experience. It‘s unique 
because of
the harder pace of training that has usually existed and because of what 
exactly
cadets do. Trekks, navagation, survival, shooting, effective leadership,
insturctional techniques, band, avation, rapelling, and sailing as well as 
the
important fact that cadets wear uniforms, they do the same drill as the real 
CF,
for exercises they are issued the same kit, for camps they go to real 
military
bases. You can‘t do any of that in the boy scouts or on the high school 
basketball
team. Cadets is an attractive offer for young people because it gives that
military experience that no other organization in Canada can. The discipline 
or
skills that you learn can‘t be learned elsewhere.
What other youth organization allows people to get their pilots or gliders
licence? Or jump out of planes? Or spend a summer on one of HMCS? None. 
That‘s
what makes it so great.
Young people are looking for challenges. Keep the standards high and keep 
the
program military orientated without getting really into the combat stuff, 
like
teaching kids how to throw grenades or kill someone with their bare hands 
they
can accually learn stuff like that in the many of the youth karate clubs 
across
Canada.
As for standards dropping, they are. If they go too low, people will become
disinteresed, look at the boy scouts.
ghallman wrote:
 > I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are soft.
 > THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
 > Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go 
around
 > setting fires or something.
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 00:10:42 PDT*
you have to understand that cadets is not for CHILDREN.....it is for 
TEENAGERS YOUNG ADULTS who are capable of and mature enough to make their 
own decisions. now, i know that you will agree with me that it is necessary 
to have and maintain effective, combat-ready armed forces...am i not 
right?!?! now, cadets are NOT that combat-ready force. they are trainees to, 
if they so choose, become a part of the CF. things like drill, basic weapons 
handling, general military knowledge and all the other basic things a 
soldier needs ARE taught through cadets as well as element0oriented 
subjects such as flying for air cadets, sailing for sea, etc. nowhere in 
cadets do they teach you to throw a grenade or select firing position or 
fire a friggin rocket launcher. cadets is a gateway to the CF. how difficult 
is it for you to understand??? here....i‘ll type it in BIG letters for you. 
CADETS ARE NOT SOLDIERS!!! THEY ARE YOUNG ADULTS BEING TAUGHT BASIC SKILLS 
TO ASSIST THEM IF THEY JOIN THE ACTUAL CF!!!!!!!
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 01:54:59 -0300
I play paintball
I played "war" as a kid
Yes that is harmless.
My point is that children do not need military experience.  Our societies
will remain violent for as long as we let it.
I play violent video games
I watch violent movies
Many if not most people men enjoy these things but it can‘t be deneyed
that if many violent influences were removed from our socities and others
then the world would be a better place.  Children have a lot of
contradictory in their lives.  What makes it right to kill because of
different political views.  All this bull**** that causes war just isn‘t
right and we shouldn‘t drag children in to military society.
At 11:26 PM 18/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
 >Listen to your own words buddy. Kids play paintball, kids play capture the
flag.
 >The vast majority of kids do stuff like that. Most kids don‘t join gangs
or shoot
 >up schools.
 >
 >Training in cadets should be harder then the boy scouts or whatever the
civvie
 >equal is. Cadets provides youth with a MILITARY experience. It‘s unique
because of
 >the harder pace of training that has usually existed and because of what
exactly
 >cadets do. Trekks, navagation, survival, shooting, effective leadership,
 >insturctional techniques, band, avation, rapelling, and sailing as well as
the
 >important fact that cadets wear uniforms, they do the same drill as the
real CF,
 >for exercises they are issued the same kit, for camps they go to real
military
 >bases. You can‘t do any of that in the boy scouts or on the high school
basketball
 >team. Cadets is an attractive offer for young people because it gives that
 >military experience that no other organization in Canada can. The
discipline or
 >skills that you learn can‘t be learned elsewhere.
 >
 >What other youth organization allows people to get their pilots or gliders
 >licence? Or jump out of planes? Or spend a summer on one of HMCS? None.
That‘s
 >what makes it so great.
 >
 >Young people are looking for challenges. Keep the standards high and keep 
the
 >program military orientated without getting really into the combat stuff,
like
 >teaching kids how to throw grenades or kill someone with their bare hands
they
 >can accually learn stuff like that in the many of the youth karate clubs
across
 >Canada.
 >
 >As for standards dropping, they are. If they go too low, people will 
become
 >disinteresed, look at the boy scouts.
 >
 >ghallman wrote:
 >
 >> I can‘t beleive how you people are complaining about how cadets are 
soft.
 >> THERE KIDS DAMN IT!  LET THEM BE KIDS! Most people don‘t need serve Full
 >> Metal Jacket type discipline when they‘re 15 unless they like to go 
around
 >> setting fires or something.
 >>
 >
 >
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 00:22:52 PDT*
you‘re still contradicting yourself. you‘re saying we should be proud that 
we live in a free country where there is no mandatory military service. but 
you also say that we should be proud if there was mandatory service because 
we would be of higher quality. which is it?? proud to be a 
conscript..........to be, or not to be? that is the question.
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:52:39 -0300
You aren‘t very good at reading between the lines.  We should be proud that
we live in a society where it isn‘t nescessary to have everyone join the
military at 18 so that if we are attacked we can defend ourselves.  Yet if
we did have that system enplaced it would create a common bond between
Canadians and would produce a more peaceful society in Canada because our
the citizens of our country would be of a higher quality.
At 12:36 AM 19/05/2000  0000, you wrote:
 > We aren‘t forcing kids to join. This is not western Africa or Nazi
 >Germany. You said that in a previous message that you were for mandatory
 >military service for all. Then in another message in reply to someone else
 >you say that your pround to live in a society where not everyone has to be
 >combatants. You say you want to keep kids away from the military, yet you
 >support the government forcing them to serve.  I have gain through cadets,
 >a great respect for the job that the Canadian Forces and professional
 >servicemen and women all over the world do. I have gain self-respect,
 >confidence, leadership skills, practical skills, and experiences that
 >cannot be done elsewhere in other organizations. Cadets bring youth
 >together who have similar interests. People make friends, gain confidence.
 >Enough so that they are able to fight off the bad elements of our society.
 >The military minus the combat skills has a lot of other skills to offer. 
In
 >a country‘s military you lean to obey, to lead, discipline, and respect.
 >Take the military framework and apply it to youth, subtract all the guns
 >and bombs, and you get a program that cannot be matched by any other. I‘m
 >not a crazy war-child. I don‘t think killing people is cool. I‘d like to
 >enter the forces after university the reserves while I‘m at school not
 >because to quote a line from Full Metal Jacket "I want ot travel to
 >interesting lands and meet exotic people, and kill them."
 >but because I believe in what they do and because the career would seem to
 >be challenging and interesting.  I‘m sorry, but I have been in cadets too
 >long and seen the things it has done for people and myself to agree with
 >you.  ghallman wrote: Woa man I don‘t even want to touch that one. Of
 >course cadets aren‘t like
 >the Hitler Youth but I think there are a lot of kids out there who would
 >  We
 >being adults have to look out for kids and I don‘t believe that we should
 >  There are too many children out there who
 >have been forced into fighting for a cause they don‘t share or understand.
 >  Canada does not need a military orientated children‘s
 >organization and Canada‘s children do not need to be taught how to be 
young
 >soldiers.
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 14:24:39 -0300*
Albert,
    I understand your point, it is in fact a good one. I have been exactly
in you position, abeit a couple of years ago.  Fear of the older cadets was
one of the ways they forced the respect of their rank, and respect for the
officers came because they were adults. But things have changed some for the
good some for the bad. Now it is an onerous task and challenge of leadership
to motivate and train these cadets, and to earn their respect.  Mission
difficult not impossible.... This is an obstacle most do not undertake....
Think positive reinforcement as opposed to negative.  I admit I don‘t know
everything. but I was in you situation and I made some mistakes...
drop me a direct e-mail if you want to talk about this...
UBIQUE
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Albert King 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 19, 2000 2:01 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS
>Scott,
>    Being 17 years old and soon to be promoted to Warrent Officer 2nd Class
I
>hope I suppose that I am one of the older kids. In the 5 years I have been
in,
>I have seen changes. Our numbers have dropped in the past few years, I
havn‘t
>felt challenged in cadets for quite a while. Lots of little things, we used
to
>go on much longer hikes, our training days on weekend exercises used to be
>longer and more intense, overall discipline on both the weekly parades and
on
>exercises and trips was stricter. Now when I teach a drill class, I have to
give
>the cadets breaks every so often according to the will of our officers, I
>remember going through very long drill classes at one time with only a few
>breaks. Cadets seem to have a lot less respect for the officers and senior
>cadets then they used to. The things that some of our first years to
officers
>anD senior cadets in crazy. Yet they often get away with it. Yelling at
cadets
>when they screw up is frowned upon, I don‘t mean calling them down or
cursing
>repeadly at them, just the kind of witty hollerings that cadets once
recieved
>from their higher ups. Our third and second years who will be running the
Sqn.
>after my peers and myself go are completely unwilling to accept command
>challenges or responsability. I couldn‘t wait to get stuff like that when I
was
>at their level.
>
>Now, because I‘m a moron, I‘m doing the exact opposite that I wanted to do.
I‘m
>not trying to sound tough, or like I‘m hot **** or anything, but in my
opinion
>when things were harder, things were better. So from my experiences, when
cadets
>from the past say that their days in were tougher the mine, I‘m inclined to
>believe them.
>
>Scott Lloyd wrote:
>
>> Albert,
>>     I doubt that I said that Cadets have or have not gotten soft.  The
point
>> I was trying to make was that you shouldn‘t listen to the older kids who
>> talk about the way it was. Live in the present, because for the most part
>> things have changed for the better. Please try to bear in mind what the
>> goals of the Cadet Organization, in its simplist form it is to make
better
>> citizens, and provide an opportunity for Canadian youth to develop
>> themselves. If you think about the things that were "tougher back then"
>> where they actually benificial? Or did they just make good stories.
Believe
>> me, everyone likes thier own war stories.
>> No the system is not perfect....it wasn‘t not will it be perfect. The
>> purpose of training in the military is completely different, and any
>> degredation of military training could possibly reduce the effectiveness
of
>> a fighting force.
>>
>> Scott
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Fri, 19 May 2000 15:49:56 -0700*
You can get early pay increments, as credit for your time in cadets and
reserves.
Do YOU know what the hitler youth did, or who they were?
>From my time in basic training, I remember the former cadets and reservists
both having a definite jump on some of the requirements.  They already knew
drill, shoe shining, pressing, and how to addressto the NCO‘s.  The rest of
us called them sir, or cpl  when they were Mcpl‘s, as a result our run
tally would increase. 1 km for every wrong form of address, to be paid off
before graduation.  Incidently, this was in 1979, and I went through
similar when I joined the reserves in 1990.
----- Original Message -----
From: ghallman 
To: 
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> I think you should spend more time doing something physical and getting
> tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re
looking
> to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the Regs
or
> Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a
bit,
> calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country you
> know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
> veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but I
> don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although they
> sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
> Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining the
> Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
> counts towards pensionable years?
>
>
>
> At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self well
it
> >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted that
we
> >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and stuff
> >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob
people
> >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and
drill
> >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the
Cadet
> >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have more
> >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and
reserves
> >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go the
> >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and
see
> >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
> >
> >
> >>From: ghallman 
> >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
> >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
army-outgoing
> >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
> >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
[198.164.200.18]
> >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
> >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
> >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
> >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
> >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
sender
> >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >>Message-Id: 
> >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >>In-Reply-To: 
> >>References: 
> >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Precedence: bulk
> >>
> >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
> >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my opinion.
Go
> >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better then
> >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other
then
> >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you cadets
> >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think so.
> >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time
getting
> >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
> >>
> >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
> >> >
> >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend
ghallman,
> >>he
> >>seems
> >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously
> >>stupid,
> >>then
> >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, flame
> >>baiting
> >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit
about
> >>their
> >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
> >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there
have
> >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better
to
> >>do
> >>than
> >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
> >>superior...
> >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually
ever
> >>had any
> >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and
bizarre
> >>ideas,
> >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
> >> >
> >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >kyle sharp wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about
teaching
> >>kids
> >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i
> >>have
> >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet
> >>leguie
> >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an
infendrey
> >>man
> >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory.
> >>thanks
> >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again
kyle
> >> >>
> >> >> >From: ghallman 
> >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
> >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
> >>army-outgoing
> >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>[198.164.200.18]
> >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
> >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000
20:38:21 -0400
> >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47
2000
> >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo
set
> >>sender
> >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >> >> >Message-Id: 
> >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
> >> >> >References: 
> >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >> >
> >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the
street.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
> >>Teaching
> >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t
> >>think
> >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball
guns.
> >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have
a
> >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was
12
> >>and
> >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my
infantry
> >>QL3
> >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think
we
> >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and ****
> >>like
> >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
> >>whatever.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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> >> >> >message body.
> >> >>
> >> >>
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> >> >> message body.
> >> >
> >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
> >> >
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
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## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 19:27:32  0000*
Bilingualism should exist in key federal institutions like the courts and
parliament, but the nation as a whole really does not need to be bilingual.
French is not needed on every sign or government document in places like
Winnipeg or Edmonton. Canada‘s french speaking population is concentrated along
a thin, narrow strip of land along the St. Lawrence River. Outside of that, we
are an english speaking nation, there is no need for another language.
As for indians, what are we supposted to do, make them think their outdated
treaties last forever? Look at the situation in the Maritimes. Fishing out of
season is legal for natives and now they are disobeying the DFO and setting
unauthorized traps.All because of some colonial scrap of paper that was signed
hundreds of years ago. It‘s all completely irrelivent today, and new treaits are
being negotiated. I have seen first hand what years of government handouts have
done to their community, and corruption in the Band Councils of many reserves is
terrible. Being here first is no justification for the treatement they recieve.
In a nation where we already have problems with other cultural groups do we
really need a third form of government, which is untilmately what natives want.
Years of appeasment to both Quebec and the Indians has not worked, they only
demand more. Mabye it‘s time to get tough in both cases.
Trevor Morin wrote:
> whoah!! i‘m on your side with all of the cadet ideas, but watch what you
> say! i agree with the gov‘t wasting $$$ on welfare, but the natives were
> here first and deserve compensation for their ill treatment over the past
> couple hundred years and also i think bilingualism is a very important part
> of our heritage and should remain a key element in canada. i am french in
> heritage, but do not speak it very well, but i still think that bilingualism
> is very important to both languages.
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## army

Posted by *Jean-F Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 21:05:43 -0400*
BS
Montreal, Qubec.
Albert King wrote:
> Bilingualism should exist in key federal institutions like the courts and
> parliament, but the nation as a whole really does not need to be bilingual.
> French is not needed on every sign or government document in places like
> Winnipeg or Edmonton. Canada‘s french speaking population is concentrated along
> a thin, narrow strip of land along the St. Lawrence River. Outside of that, we
> are an english speaking nation, there is no need for another language.
>
> As for indians, what are we supposted to do, make them think their outdated
> treaties last forever? Look at the situation in the Maritimes. Fishing out of
> season is legal for natives and now they are disobeying the DFO and setting
> unauthorized traps.All because of some colonial scrap of paper that was signed
> hundreds of years ago. It‘s all completely irrelivent today, and new treaits are
> being negotiated. I have seen first hand what years of government handouts have
> done to their community, and corruption in the Band Councils of many reserves is
> terrible. Being here first is no justification for the treatement they recieve.
> In a nation where we already have problems with other cultural groups do we
> really need a third form of government, which is untilmately what natives want.
>
> Years of appeasment to both Quebec and the Indians has not worked, they only
> demand more. Mabye it‘s time to get tough in both cases.
>
> Trevor Morin wrote:
>
> > whoah!! i‘m on your side with all of the cadet ideas, but watch what you
> > say! i agree with the gov‘t wasting $$$ on welfare, but the natives were
> > here first and deserve compensation for their ill treatment over the past
> > couple hundred years and also i think bilingualism is a very important part
> > of our heritage and should remain a key element in canada. i am french in
> > heritage, but do not speak it very well, but i still think that bilingualism
> > is very important to both languages.
>
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## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 20:39:46  0000*
I assume that you mean bull ****. So I ask you to justify that response. However,
since this is a military newsletter I think we should keep the messages personal and
not send them via army@cipherlogic.on.ca.
Jean-F Menicucci wrote:
> BS
>
> Montreal, Qubec.
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----------



## army

Posted by *Jean-F Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 21:37:50 -0400*
I think Its a military mailing list and we should not talk about politics, people seem
alway touchy when talking about politics like me :
Cheers
Albert King wrote:
> I assume that you mean bull ****. So I ask you to justify that response. However,
> since this is a military newsletter I think we should keep the messages personal and
> not send them via army@cipherlogic.on.ca.
>
> Jean-F Menicucci wrote:
>
> > BS
> >
> > Montreal, Qubec.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *Albert King <aking@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Sat, 20 May 2000 21:04:43  0000*
That‘s what I said.
Jean-F Menicucci wrote:
> I think Its a military mailing list and we should not talk about politics, people seem
> alway touchy when talking about politics like me :
>
> Cheers
>
> Albert King wrote:
>
> > I assume that you mean bull ****. So I ask you to justify that response. However,
> > since this is a military newsletter I think we should keep the messages personal and
> > not send them via army@cipherlogic.on.ca.
> >
> > Jean-F Menicucci wrote:
> >
> > > BS
> > >
> > > Montreal, Qubec.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Sun, 21 May 2000 01:40:48 PDT*
actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration. i‘ve 
only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on my CD 
because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
From: ghallman 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
I think you should spend more time doing something physical and getting
tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re looking
to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the Regs or
Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a bit,
calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country you
know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but I
don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although they
sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining the
Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
counts towards pensionable years?
At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
 >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self well 
it
 >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted that 
we
 >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and stuff
 >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob people
 >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and drill
 >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the Cadet
 >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have more
 >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and 
reserves
 >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go the
 >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and see
 >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
 >
 >
 >>From: ghallman 
 >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>Subject: Re: CADETS
 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
 >>MIME-Version: 1.0
 >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
 >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
 >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
 >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for army-outgoing
 >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
 >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]
 >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
 >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
 >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
 >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
 >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set 
sender
 >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >>Message-Id: 
 >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >>In-Reply-To: 
 >>References: 
 >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >>Precedence: bulk
 >>
 >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
 >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my opinion.  
Go
 >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better then
 >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other 
then
 >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you cadets
 >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think so.
 >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time getting
 >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
 >>
 >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
 >> >
 >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend ghallman,
 >>he
 >>seems
 >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously
 >>stupid,
 >>then
 >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, flame
 >>baiting
 >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit about
 >>their
 >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
 >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there 
have
 >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better to
 >>do
 >>than
 >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
 >>superior...
 >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually ever
 >>had any
 >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and bizarre
 >>ideas,
 >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
 >> >
 >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
 >> >
 >> >
 >> >kyle sharp wrote:
 >> >
 >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching
 >>kids
 >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i
 >>have
 >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet
 >>leguie
 >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an 
infendrey
 >>man
 >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory.
 >>thanks
 >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
 >> >>
 >> >> >From: ghallman 
 >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
 >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
 >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
 >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
 >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
 >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
 >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
 >>army-outgoing
 >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
 >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >>[198.164.200.18]
 >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
 >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 
-0400
 >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
 >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
 >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
 >>sender
 >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >> >> >Message-Id: 
 >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
 >> >> >References: 
 >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >> >> >Precedence: bulk
 >> >> >
 >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
 >> >> >
 >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
 >> >> >
 >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the 
street.
 >> >> >
 >> >> >
 >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
 >>Teaching
 >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t
 >>think
 >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball 
guns.
 >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have 
a
 >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12
 >>and
 >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my 
infantry
 >>QL3
 >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think 
we
 >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and ****
 >>like
 >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
 >>whatever.
 >> >> >
 >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
 >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >> >> >message body.
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >>________________________________________________________________________
 >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
 >>http://www.hotmail.com
 >> >>
 >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
 >> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >> >> message body.
 >> >
 >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
 >> >
 >>
 >>--------------------------------------------------------
 >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >>message body.
 >
 >________________________________________________________________________
 >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
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 >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >message body.
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Robert Childs" <adanac1@home.com>* on *Sun, 21 May 2000 05:59:19 -0400*
Please say it isn‘t so  Time in Cadets does not count towards your CD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Morin" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
i‘ve
> only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on my
CD
> because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Sun, 21 May 2000 11:53:23 -0300*
no time in Cadets does not count toward your CD....
I think someone must have messed up on Mr Morin‘s MPRRold 490A
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Childs 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 21, 2000 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>Please say it isn‘t so  Time in Cadets does not count towards your CD
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Trevor Morin" 
>To: 
>Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 4:40 AM
>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>
>
>> actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
>i‘ve
>> only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on my
>CD
>> because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Sun, 21 May 2000 09:57:14 -0600*
--------------50A29723EEE53FC750646C59
Trevor,
        Sorry to inform you, time in cadets does not apply to your CD, Time in
as a CSofC/CIL/CIC officer or NCM does however. Otherwise, I‘ve completly
enjoyed your points-counterpoints to ghallmans meanderings. Keep it up.
Francois
Trevor Morin wrote:
> actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration. i‘ve
> only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on my CD
> because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>
> From: ghallman 
> Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
--------------50A29723EEE53FC750646C59
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and extreme environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
x-mozilla-cpt:-12336
fn:www.avscanada.com
end:vcard
--------------50A29723EEE53FC750646C59--
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *Gunner <randr1@home.com>* on *Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600*
Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian Decoration...the
CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is NOT
serving in the CF.
Trevor Morin wrote:
> 
> actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration. i‘ve
> only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on my CD
> because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
> 
> From: ghallman 
> Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
> 
> I think you should spend more time doing something physical and getting
> tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re looking
> to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the Regs or
> Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a bit,
> calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country you
> know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
> veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but I
> don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although they
> sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
> Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining the
> Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
> counts towards pensionable years?
> 
> At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self well
> it
>  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted that
> we
>  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and stuff
>  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob people
>  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and drill
>  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the Cadet
>  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have more
>  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and
> reserves
>  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go the
>  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and see
>  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>  >
>  >
>  >>From: ghallman 
>  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
>  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
>  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
>  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
>  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for army-outgoing
>  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca [198.164.200.18]
>  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
>  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
>  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
>  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
> sender
>  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>  >>Message-Id: 
>  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>  >>In-Reply-To: 
>  >>References: 
>  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >>Precedence: bulk
>  >>
>  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
>  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my opinion.
> Go
>  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better then
>  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other
> then
>  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you cadets
>  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think so.
>  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time getting
>  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>  >>
>  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
>  >> >
>  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend ghallman,
>  >>he
>  >>seems
>  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously
>  >>stupid,
>  >>then
>  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, flame
>  >>baiting
>  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit about
>  >>their
>  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there
> have
>  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better to
>  >>do
>  >>than
>  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
>  >>superior...
>  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually ever
>  >>had any
>  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and bizarre
>  >>ideas,
>  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>  >> >
>  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>  >> >
>  >> >
>  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
>  >> >
>  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about teaching
>  >>kids
>  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i
>  >>have
>  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet
>  >>leguie
>  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an
> infendrey
>  >>man
>  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory.
>  >>thanks
>  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again kyle
>  >> >>
>  >> >> >From: ghallman 
>  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
>  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
>  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
>  >>army-outgoing
>  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >>[198.164.200.18]
>  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
>  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21
> -0400
>  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
>  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 2000
>  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
>  >>sender
>  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>  >> >> >Message-Id: 
>  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
>  >> >> >References: 
>  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
>  >> >> >
>  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>  >> >> >
>  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>  >> >> >
>  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the
> street.
>  >> >> >
>  >> >> >
>  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
>  >>Teaching
>  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t
>  >>think
>  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball
> guns.
>  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have
> a
>  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 12
>  >>and
>  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my
> infantry
>  >>QL3
>  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think
> we
>  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and ****
>  >>like
>  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
>  >>whatever.
>  >> >> >
>  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
>  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  >> >> >message body.
>  >> >>
>  >> >>
>  >>________________________________________________________________________
>  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>  >>http://www.hotmail.com
>  >> >>
>  >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>  >> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  >> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  >> >> message body.
>  >> >
>  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
>  >> >
>  >>
>  >>--------------------------------------------------------
>  >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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>  >
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>  >
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## army

Posted by *The Moose <the.moose@home.com>* on *Mon, 22 May 2000 12:38:32 -0400*
Exactly what I have heard,   The Current combats, the olive drab will 
remain a garisson dress, and the new digi-patern combats will be for the feild.
>So how much time do you have in as an infantryman?  I‘m sorry that it
>doesn‘t look cool enough for you.  From what I‘ve heard someone correct me
>if I‘m wrong the OD combats will become garrison dress while the new Can.
>Pat. will be for field use only.
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----------



## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Mon, 22 May 2000 09:41:52 -0700*
I hope they get some new stuff.  After being used in the field, mine were
worn and looked as see thriugh as lingerie.  Quite sexy on a 225 lb Sgt.
----- Original Message -----
From: The Moose 
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: CADETS
> Exactly what I have heard,   The Current combats, the olive drab will
> remain a garisson dress, and the new digi-patern combats will be for the
feild.
>
> >So how much time do you have in as an infantryman?  I‘m sorry that it
> >doesn‘t look cool enough for you.  From what I‘ve heard someone correct
me
> >if I‘m wrong the OD combats will become garrison dress while the new
Can.
> >Pat. will be for field use only.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *Gunner <randr1@home.com>* on *Mon, 22 May 2000 11:34:42 -0600*
There is NO repeat NO plan to have two orders of dress for field and
garrison.  The new CADPAT Canadian Disruptive Pattern will be phased
in over time replacing the old combats.  Once you have it, you‘ll wear
it as your dress of the day.  There is NO repeat NO movement to keep the
old style combats for any other purpose.
The Moose wrote:
> 
> Exactly what I have heard,   The Current combats, the olive drab will
> remain a garisson dress, and the new digi-patern combats will be for the feild.
> 
> >So how much time do you have in as an infantryman?  I‘m sorry that it
> >doesn‘t look cool enough for you.  From what I‘ve heard someone correct me
> >if I‘m wrong the OD combats will become garrison dress while the new Can.
> >Pat. will be for field use only.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *"kyle sharp" <sharpkyle@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Mon, 22 May 2000 19:53:04 EDT*
for your ? avout time served. if u have your nsc. national star 
certification it will take give u six months in so u will get a pay raise 
and pormation quiter. kyle
>From: ghallman 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Fri, 19 May 2000 19:19:38 -0300
>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Fri May 19 15:38:54 2000
>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set sender 
>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>Message-Id: 
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>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>In-Reply-To: 
>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Precedence: bulk
>
>I think you should spend more time doing something physical and getting
>tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re looking
>to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the Regs or
>Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a bit,
>calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country you
>know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
>veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but I
>don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although they
>sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
>Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining the
>Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
>counts towards pensionable years?
>
>
>
>At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self well 
>it
> >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted that 
>we
> >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and stuff
> >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob 
>people
> >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and 
>drill
> >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the 
>Cadet
> >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have more
> >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and 
>reserves
> >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go the
> >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and 
>see
> >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
> >
> >
> >>From: ghallman 
> >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
> >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for 
>army-outgoing
> >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
> >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca 
>[198.164.200.18]
> >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
> >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
> >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
> >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
> >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set 
>sender
> >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >>Message-Id: 
> >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >>In-Reply-To: 
> >>References: 
> >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Precedence: bulk
> >>
> >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
> >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my opinion.  
>Go
> >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better then
> >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other 
>then
> >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you cadets
> >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think so.
> >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time 
>getting
> >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
> >>
> >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
> >> >
> >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend 
>ghallman,
> >>he
> >>seems
> >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously
> >>stupid,
> >>then
> >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, flame
> >>baiting
> >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit 
>about
> >>their
> >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
> >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there 
>have
> >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better 
>to
> >>do
> >>than
> >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
> >>superior...
> >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually 
>ever
> >>had any
> >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and 
>bizarre
> >>ideas,
> >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
> >> >
> >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >kyle sharp wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about 
>teaching
> >>kids
> >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and i
> >>have
> >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the cadet
> >>leguie
> >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an 
>infendrey
> >>man
> >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your theory.
> >>thanks
> >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again 
>kyle
> >> >>
> >> >> >From: ghallman 
> >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 2000
> >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
> >>army-outgoing
> >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >>[198.164.200.18]
> >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
> >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21 
>-0400
> >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 
>2000
> >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo 
>set
> >>sender
> >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >> >> >Message-Id: 
> >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
> >> >> >References: 
> >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >> >
> >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the 
>street.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
> >>Teaching
> >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I don‘t
> >>think
> >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball 
>guns.
> >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I have 
>a
> >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 
>12
> >>and
> >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my 
>infantry
> >>QL3
> >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I think 
>we
> >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and ****
> >>like
> >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
> >>whatever.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> >> >message body.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>________________________________________________________________________
> >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >>http://www.hotmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
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> >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> >> message body.
> >> >
> >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
> >> >
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
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> >
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## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Mon, 22 May 2000 20:22:15 PDT*
yes, it does count. but, only the time you spent as a cadet instructor.
From: "Robert Childs" 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 05:59:19 -0400
Please say it isn‘t so  Time in Cadets does not count towards your CD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Morin" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
 > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
i‘ve
 > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on my
CD
 > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
--------------------------------------------------------
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## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Mon, 22 May 2000 20:24:44 PDT*
i don‘t know what you‘re talking about, because time in cadets does count 
towards your CD. but, only the time you spent as an instructor in cadets 
counts.
From: "Scott Lloyd" 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:53:23 -0300
no time in Cadets does not count toward your CD....
I think someone must have messed up on Mr Morin‘s MPRRold 490A
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Childs 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 21, 2000 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
 >Please say it isn‘t so  Time in Cadets does not count towards your CD
 >
 >----- Original Message -----
 >From: "Trevor Morin" 
 >To: 
 >Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 4:40 AM
 >Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
 >
 >
 >> actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
 >i‘ve
 >> only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on 
my
 >CD
 >> because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
 >
 >
 >--------------------------------------------------------
 >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >message body.
 >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Mon, 22 May 2000 20:28:58 PDT*
YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your 
information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and he told 
me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time as 
instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with cadets, so 
that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it does. maybe 
you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
From: Gunner 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian Decoration...the
CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is NOT
serving in the CF.
Trevor Morin wrote:
 >
 > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration. 
i‘ve
 > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on my 
CD
 > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
 >
 > From: ghallman 
 > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
 > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
 >
 > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and getting
 > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re 
looking
 > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the Regs 
or
 > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a 
bit,
 > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country 
you
 > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
 > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but I
 > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although 
they
 > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
 > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining 
the
 > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
 > counts towards pensionable years?
 >
 > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
 >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self 
well
 > it
 >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted 
that
 > we
 >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and 
stuff
 >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob 
people
 >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and 
drill
 >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the 
Cadet
 >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have 
more
 >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and
 > reserves
 >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go 
the
 >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and 
see
 >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >>From: ghallman 
 >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
 >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
 >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
 >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
 >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
 >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
 >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for 
army-outgoing
 >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
 >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca 
[198.164.200.18]
 >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
 >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
 >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
 >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
 >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
 > sender
 >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >  >>Message-Id: 
 >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >  >>In-Reply-To: 
 >  >>References: 
 >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >>Precedence: bulk
 >  >>
 >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
 >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my 
opinion.
 > Go
 >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better 
then
 >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other
 > then
 >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you 
cadets
 >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think 
so.
 >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time 
getting
 >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
 >  >>
 >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
 >  >> >
 >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend 
ghallman,
 >  >>he
 >  >>seems
 >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously
 >  >>stupid,
 >  >>then
 >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll, 
flame
 >  >>baiting
 >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit 
about
 >  >>their
 >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
 >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there
 > have
 >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better 
to
 >  >>do
 >  >>than
 >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
 >  >>superior...
 >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually 
ever
 >  >>had any
 >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and 
bizarre
 >  >>ideas,
 >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
 >  >> >
 >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
 >  >> >
 >  >> >
 >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
 >  >> >
 >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about 
teaching
 >  >>kids
 >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and 
i
 >  >>have
 >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the 
cadet
 >  >>leguie
 >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an
 > infendrey
 >  >>man
 >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your 
theory.
 >  >>thanks
 >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again 
kyle
 >  >> >>
 >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
 >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
 >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
 >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
 >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
 >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32 
2000
 >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
 >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
 >  >>army-outgoing
 >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
 >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >>[198.164.200.18]
 >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  
id
 >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21
 > -0400
 >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
 >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47 
2000
 >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo 
set
 >  >>sender
 >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >  >> >> >Message-Id: 
 >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
 >  >> >> >References: 
 >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
 >  >> >> >
 >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
 >  >> >> >
 >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
 >  >> >> >
 >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the
 > street.
 >  >> >> >
 >  >> >> >
 >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
 >  >>Teaching
 >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I 
don‘t
 >  >>think
 >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball
 > guns.
 >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I 
have
 > a
 >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was 
12
 >  >>and
 >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my
 > infantry
 >  >>QL3
 >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I 
think
 > we
 >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and 
****
 >  >>like
 >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
 >  >>whatever.
 >  >> >> >
 >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
 >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >  >> >> >message body.
 >  >> >>
 >  >> >>
 >  
 >>________________________________________________________________________
 >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
 >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
 >  >> >>
 >  >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
 >  >> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >  >> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >  >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >  >> >> message body.
 >  >> >
 >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
 >  >> >
 >  >>
 >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
 >  >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >  >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >  >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >  >>message body.
 >  >
 >  
 >________________________________________________________________________
 >  >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
 http://www.hotmail.com 
 >  >
 >  >--------------------------------------------------------
 >  >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >  >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >  >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >  >message body.
 >  >
 >
 > --------------------------------------------------------
 > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 > message body.
 >
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 >
 > --------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *Gunner <randr1@home.com>* on *Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600*
Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
repeat NOT a member of the CF.
2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve Force
and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc. 
The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air Reserve,
Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex Regular
and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
please let me know.
Trevor Morin wrote:
> 
> YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
> information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and he told
> me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time as
> instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with cadets, so
> that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it does. maybe
> you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
> 
> From: Gunner 
> Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
> 
> Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian Decoration...the
> CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is NOT
> serving in the CF.
> 
> Trevor Morin wrote:
>  >
>  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
> i‘ve
>  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on my
> CD
>  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>  >
>  > From: ghallman 
>  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
>  >
>  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and getting
>  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re
> looking
>  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the Regs
> or
>  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a
> bit,
>  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country
> you
>  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
>  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but I
>  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although
> they
>  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
>  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining
> the
>  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
>  > counts towards pensionable years?
>  >
>  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self
> well
>  > it
>  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted
> that
>  > we
>  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and
> stuff
>  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob
> people
>  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and
> drill
>  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the
> Cadet
>  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have
> more
>  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and
>  > reserves
>  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go
> the
>  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and
> see
>  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >>From: ghallman 
>  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
>  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
>  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
>  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
>  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
> army-outgoing
>  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> [198.164.200.18]
>  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
>  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
>  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
>  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
>  > sender
>  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>  >  >>Message-Id: 
>  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
>  >  >>References: 
>  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >>Precedence: bulk
>  >  >>
>  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
>  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
> opinion.
>  > Go
>  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better
> then
>  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other
>  > then
>  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you
> cadets
>  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think
> so.
>  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time
> getting
>  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>  >  >>
>  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
>  >  >> >
>  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend
> ghallman,
>  >  >>he
>  >  >>seems
>  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously
>  >  >>stupid,
>  >  >>then
>  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll,
> flame
>  >  >>baiting
>  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit
> about
>  >  >>their
>  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there
>  > have
>  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing better
> to
>  >  >>do
>  >  >>than
>  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
>  >  >>superior...
>  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually
> ever
>  >  >>had any
>  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and
> bizarre
>  >  >>ideas,
>  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>  >  >> >
>  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>  >  >> >
>  >  >> >
>  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
>  >  >> >
>  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about
> teaching
>  >  >>kids
>  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years and
> i
>  >  >>have
>  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the
> cadet
>  >  >>leguie
>  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an
>  > infendrey
>  >  >>man
>  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your
> theory.
>  >  >>thanks
>  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again
> kyle
>  >  >> >>
>  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
>  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
>  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32
> 2000
>  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
>  >  >>army-outgoing
>  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
>  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP
> id
>  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21
>  > -0400
>  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>  >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
>  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47
> 2000
>  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo
> set
>  >  >>sender
>  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
> 
>  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
>  >  >> >> >References: 
>  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
>  >  >> >> >
>  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>  >  >> >> >
>  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>  >  >> >> >
>  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the
>  > street.
>  >  >> >> >
>  >  >> >> >
>  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
>  >  >>Teaching
>  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I
> don‘t
>  >  >>think
>  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball
>  > guns.
>  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I
> have
>  > a
>  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I was
> 12
>  >  >>and
>  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my
>  > infantry
>  >  >>QL3
>  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I
> think
>  > we
>  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and
> ****
>  >  >>like
>  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
>  >  >>whatever.
>  >  >> >> >
>  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
>  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  >  >> >> >message body.
>  >  >> >>
>  >  >> >>
>  >
>  >>________________________________________________________________________
>  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>  >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
>  >  >> >>
>  >  >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>  >  >> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  >  >> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  >  >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  >  >> >> message body.
>  >  >> >
>  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
>  >  >> >
>  >  >>
>  >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
>  >  >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  >  >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  >  >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  >  >>message body.
>  >  >
>  >
>  >________________________________________________________________________
>  >  >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>  http://www.hotmail.com 
>  >  >
>  >  >--------------------------------------------------------
>  >  >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  >  >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  >  >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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>  >  >
>  >
>  > --------------------------------------------------------
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>  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  > message body.
>  >
>  > ________________________________________________________________________
>  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>  >
>  > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  > message body.
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Tue, 23 May 2000 12:32:38 -0300*
Only as specifically an enrolled CIC Officer
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Morin 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 23, 2000 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>yes, it does count. but, only the time you spent as a cadet instructor.
>
>
>From: "Robert Childs" 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: 
>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 05:59:19 -0400
>
>Please say it isn‘t so  Time in Cadets does not count towards your CD
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Trevor Morin" 
>To: 
>Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 4:40 AM
>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>
>
> > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
>i‘ve
> > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on
my
>CD
> > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>
>
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## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Tue, 23 May 2000 12:38:04 -0300*
There are quite a few people on this list who should know.... Only time
spent as an enrolled CIC / CIL / or Former equivalent Officer... ie time in
the CF.... repeat CF.... Cadets may grant you up to 6 months TCP toward
PteT in the militia I believe it is only the militia
I‘m sorry your Pl Comd is in error...
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Morin 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 23, 2000 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
>information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and he
told
>me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time as
>instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with cadets, so
>that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it does. maybe
>you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
>
>
>From: Gunner 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
>
>Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian Decoration...the
>CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is NOT
>serving in the CF.
>
>Trevor Morin wrote:
> >
> > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
>i‘ve
> > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on
my
>CD
> > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
> >
> > From: ghallman 
> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
> >
> > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and getting
> > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re
>looking
> > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the Regs
>or
> > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a
>bit,
> > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country
>you
> > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
> > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but I
> > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although
>they
> > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
> > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining
>the
> > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
> > counts towards pensionable years?
> >
> > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self
>well
> > it
> >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted
>that
> > we
> >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and
>stuff
> >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob
>people
> >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and
>drill
> >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the
>Cadet
> >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have
>more
> >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and
> > reserves
> >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go
>the
> >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit and
>see
> >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >>From: ghallman 
> >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
> >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
> >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
>army-outgoing
> >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
> >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>[198.164.200.18]
> >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
> >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000
16:53:45 -0400
> >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
> >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 2000
> >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo set
> > sender
> >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >  >>Message-Id: 
> >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >  >>In-Reply-To: 
> >  >>References: 
> >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >>Precedence: bulk
> >  >>
> >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer nerd
> >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
>opinion.
> > Go
> >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better
>then
> >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things other
> > then
> >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you
>cadets
> >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t think
>so.
> >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time
>getting
> >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
> >  >>
> >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
> >  >> >
> >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend
>ghallman,
> >  >>he
> >  >>seems
> >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something enormously
> >  >>stupid,
> >  >>then
> >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll,
>flame
> >  >>baiting
> >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit
>about
> >  >>their
> >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
> >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, there
> > have
> >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing
better
>to
> >  >>do
> >  >>than
> >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
> >  >>superior...
> >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he actually
>ever
> >  >>had any
> >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and
>bizarre
> >  >>ideas,
> >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
> >  >> >
> >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
> >  >> >
> >  >> >
> >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
> >  >> >
> >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about
>teaching
> >  >>kids
> >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years
and
>i
> >  >>have
> >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the
>cadet
> >  >>leguie
> >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an
> > infendrey
> >  >>man
> >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your
>theory.
> >  >>thanks
> >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks again
>kyle
> >  >> >>
> >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
> >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP
id
> >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32
>2000
> >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
> >  >>army-outgoing
> >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >>[198.164.200.18]
> >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP
>id
> >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:21
> > -0400
> >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 18:22:47
>2000
> >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo
>set
> >  >>sender
> >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >  >> >> >Message-Id:
>
> >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
> >  >> >> >References: 
> >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >  >> >> >
> >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >  >> >> >
> >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >  >> >> >
> >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the
> > street.
> >  >> >> >
> >  >> >> >
> >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler Youth.
> >  >>Teaching
> >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I
>don‘t
> >  >>think
> >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with paintball
> > guns.
> >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I
>have
> > a
> >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I
was
>12
> >  >>and
> >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my
> > infantry
> >  >>QL3
> >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I
>think
> > we
> >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and
>****
> >  >>like
> >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush or
> >  >>whatever.
> >  >> >> >
> >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  >> >> >message body.
> >  >> >>
> >  >> >>
> >
> >>________________________________________________________________________
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> >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
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> >  >> >
> >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
> >  >> >
> >  >>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"k k" <gimpy_pimpy2@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Tue, 23 May 2000 22:00:54 EDT*
ur wrong paintball hasnt been taken away from cadets someone has to set up a 
game  not duringcadet hours the form still has to be signed
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## army

Posted by *"k k" <gimpy_pimpy2@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Tue, 23 May 2000 22:05:00 EDT*
swat use paintball guns,grown men use paintball guns,military use paintball 
guns ,grown men shoot up schools and join gangs
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## army

Posted by *"k k" <gimpy_pimpy2@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Tue, 23 May 2000 22:07:51 EDT*
they do gain rank quicker !!!!  I know tons of people in military college  
,service battalion,ect who were in cadets and have gained rank quicker
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## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Tue, 23 May 2000 23:53:37 -0300*
which military college was that....
-----Original Message-----
From: k k 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 23, 2000 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: CADETS
>
>
>they do gain rank quicker !!!!  I know tons of people in military college
>,service battalion,ect who were in cadets and have gained rank quicker
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
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## army

Posted by *"Amber Hutt" <tattoogirl69@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Wed, 24 May 2000 18:27:27 PDT*
I think you sent this message to the wrong person.  I didn‘t send any 
messages regarding paintball.
>From: "k k" 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS
>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:05:00 EDT
>
>swat use paintball guns,grown men use paintball guns,military use paintball
>guns ,grown men shoot up schools and join gangs
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Trevor Morin" <trevor_morin@HOTMAIL.COM>* on *Wed, 24 May 2000 19:03:35 PDT*
i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an instructor 
in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to believe 
that the time does count!!
From: Gunner 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
repeat NOT a member of the CF.
2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve Force
and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air Reserve,
Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex Regular
and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
please let me know.
Trevor Morin wrote:
 >
 > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
 > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and he 
told
 > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time as
 > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with cadets, 
so
 > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it does. 
maybe
 > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
 >
 > From: Gunner 
 > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
 > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
 >
 > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian Decoration...the
 > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is NOT
 > serving in the CF.
 >
 > Trevor Morin wrote:
 >  >
 >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
 > i‘ve
 >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on 
my
 > CD
 >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
 >  >
 >  > From: ghallman 
 >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
 >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
 >  >
 >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and 
getting
 >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re
 > looking
 >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the 
Regs
 > or
 >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a
 > bit,
 >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country
 > you
 >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
 >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but 
I
 >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although
 > they
 >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
 >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining
 > the
 >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
 >  > counts towards pensionable years?
 >  >
 >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
 >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self
 > well
 >  > it
 >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted
 > that
 >  > we
 >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and
 > stuff
 >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob
 > people
 >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and
 > drill
 >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the
 > Cadet
 >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have
 > more
 >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and
 >  > reserves
 >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go
 > the
 >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit 
and
 > see
 >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
 >  >  >
 >  >  >
 >  >  >>From: ghallman 
 >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
 >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
 >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
 >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
 >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
 >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
 >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
 > army-outgoing
 >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
 >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 > [198.164.200.18]
 >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
 >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45 
-0400
 >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
 >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15 
2000
 >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo 
set
 >  > sender
 >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >  >  >>Message-Id: 
 >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
 >  >  >>References: 
 >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
 >  >  >>
 >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer 
nerd
 >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
 > opinion.
 >  > Go
 >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better
 > then
 >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things 
other
 >  > then
 >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you
 > cadets
 >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t 
think
 > so.
 >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time
 > getting
 >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
 >  >  >>
 >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
 >  >  >> >
 >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend
 > ghallman,
 >  >  >>he
 >  >  >>seems
 >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something 
enormously
 >  >  >>stupid,
 >  >  >>then
 >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll,
 > flame
 >  >  >>baiting
 >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit
 > about
 >  >  >>their
 >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
 >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time, 
there
 >  > have
 >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing 
better
 > to
 >  >  >>do
 >  >  >>than
 >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
 >  >  >>superior...
 >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he 
actually
 > ever
 >  >  >>had any
 >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and
 > bizarre
 >  >  >>ideas,
 >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
 >  >  >> >
 >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
 >  >  >> >
 >  >  >> >
 >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
 >  >  >> >
 >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about
 > teaching
 >  >  >>kids
 >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years 
and
 > i
 >  >  >>have
 >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the
 > cadet
 >  >  >>leguie
 >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an
 >  > infendrey
 >  >  >>man
 >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your
 > theory.
 >  >  >>thanks
 >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks 
again
 > kyle
 >  >  >> >>
 >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
 >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
 >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
 >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
 >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP 
id
 >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32
 > 2000
 >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
 >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
 >  >  >>army-outgoing
 >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
 >  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
 >  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with 
ESMTP
 > id
 >  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000 
20:38:21
 >  > -0400
 >  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by 
quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
 >  >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
 >  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
 >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17 
18:22:47
 > 2000
 >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: 
majordomo
 > set
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 >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
 >  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
 > 
 >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
 >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
 >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
 >  >  >> >> >References: 
 >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
 >  >  >> >> >
 >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
 >  >  >> >> >
 >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
 >  >  >> >> >
 >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the
 >  > street.
 >  >  >> >> >
 >  >  >> >> >
 >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler 
Youth.
 >  >  >>Teaching
 >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I
 > don‘t
 >  >  >>think
 >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with 
paintball
 >  > guns.
 >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I
 > have
 >  > a
 >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I 
was
 > 12
 >  >  >>and
 >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my
 >  > infantry
 >  >  >>QL3
 >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I
 > think
 >  > we
 >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and
 > ****
 >  >  >>like
 >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush 
or
 >  >  >>whatever.
 >  >  >> >> >
 >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
 >  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 >  >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 >  >  >> >> >message body.
 >  >  >> >>
 >  >  >> >>
 >  >
 >  
 >>________________________________________________________________________
 >  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
 >  >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
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 >  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
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 >  
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to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Thu, 25 May 2000 08:58:43 -0600*
--------------EC7FCDDDDD90CEDB352387AF
Trevor,
        Inclined or not, honest, we‘re not fibbing you, I and I‘m quite sure
everyone else, would gain nothing from leading you astray. Time in uniform as a
cadet does not apply towards your CD... really.
Francois
Trevor Morin wrote:
> i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an instructor
> in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to believe
> that the time does count!!
>
> From: Gunner 
> Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
>
> Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
> previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
>
> 1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
> means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
> doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
> to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
> repeat NOT a member of the CF.
>
> 2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
> Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
> Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve Force
> and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
> The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air Reserve,
> Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex Regular
> and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
> Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
> are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
>
> I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
> please let me know.
>
> Trevor Morin wrote:
>  >
>  > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
>  > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and he
> told
>  > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time as
>  > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with cadets,
> so
>  > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it does.
> maybe
>  > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
>  >
>  > From: Gunner 
>  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>  > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
>  >
>  > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian Decoration...the
>  > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is NOT
>  > serving in the CF.
>  >
>  > Trevor Morin wrote:
>  >  >
>  >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian Decoration.
>  > i‘ve
>  >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up on
> my
>  > CD
>  >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>  >  >
>  >  > From: ghallman 
>  >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>  >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
>  >  >
>  >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and
> getting
>  >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re
>  > looking
>  >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the
> Regs
>  > or
>  >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up a
>  > bit,
>  >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free country
>  > you
>  >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
>  >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth but
> I
>  >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although
>  > they
>  >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
>  >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for joining
>  > the
>  >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the Cadets
>  >  > counts towards pensionable years?
>  >  >
>  >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>  >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your self
>  > well
>  >  > it
>  >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the facted
>  > that
>  >  > we
>  >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and
>  > stuff
>  >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob
>  > people
>  >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching and
>  > drill
>  >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that the
>  > Cadet
>  >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have
>  > more
>  >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and
>  >  > reserves
>  >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use go
>  > the
>  >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit
> and
>  > see
>  >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >>From: ghallman 
>  >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
>  >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>  >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
>  >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
>  >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58 2000
>  >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>  >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
>  > army-outgoing
>  >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>  >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  > [198.164.200.18]
>  >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP  id
>  >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45
> -0400
>  >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>  >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>  >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>  >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15
> 2000
>  >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo
> set
>  >  > sender
>  >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>  >  >  >>Message-Id: 
>  >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>  >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
>  >  >  >>References: 
>  >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
>  >  >  >>
>  >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer
> nerd
>  >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
>  > opinion.
>  >  > Go
>  >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better
>  > then
>  >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things
> other
>  >  > then
>  >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you
>  > cadets
>  >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t
> think
>  > so.
>  >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time
>  > getting
>  >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>  >  >  >>
>  >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
>  >  >  >> >
>  >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend
>  > ghallman,
>  >  >  >>he
>  >  >  >>seems
>  >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something
> enormously
>  >  >  >>stupid,
>  >  >  >>then
>  >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll,
>  > flame
>  >  >  >>baiting
>  >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your unit
>  > about
>  >  >  >>their
>  >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>  >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time,
> there
>  >  > have
>  >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing
> better
>  > to
>  >  >  >>do
>  >  >  >>than
>  >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
>  >  >  >>superior...
>  >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he
> actually
>  > ever
>  >  >  >>had any
>  >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and
>  > bizarre
>  >  >  >>ideas,
>  >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>  >  >  >> >
>  >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>  >  >  >> >
>  >  >  >> >
>  >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
>  >  >  >> >
>  >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about
>  > teaching
>  >  >  >>kids
>  >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years
> and
>  > i
>  >  >  >>have
>  >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the
>  > cadet
>  >  >  >>leguie
>  >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an
>  >  > infendrey
>  >  >  >>man
>  >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your
>  > theory.
>  >  >  >>thanks
>  >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks
> again
>  > kyle
>  >  >  >> >>
>  >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
>  >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>  >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>  >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>  >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP
> id
>  >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17 18:18:32
>  > 2000
>  >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>  >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
>  >  >  >>army-outgoing
>  >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>  >  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
>  >  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
> ESMTP
>  > id
>  >  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000
> 20:38:21
>  >  > -0400
>  >  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by
> quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
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>  >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17
> 18:22:47
>  > 2000
>  >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
> majordomo
>  > set
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>  >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
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>  > 
>  >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>  >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>  >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
>  >  >  >> >> >References:
> 
>  >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
>  >  >  >> >> >
>  >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>  >  >  >> >> >
>  >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
>  >  >  >> >> >
>  >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the
>  >  > street.
>  >  >  >> >> >
>  >  >  >> >> >
>  >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler
> Youth.
>  >  >  >>Teaching
>  >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I
>  > don‘t
>  >  >  >>think
>  >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with
> paintball
>  >  > guns.
>  >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that I
>  > have
>  >  > a
>  >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I
> was
>  > 12
>  >  >  >>and
>  >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my
>  >  > infantry
>  >  >  >>QL3
>  >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I
>  > think
>  >  > we
>  >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques and
>  > ****
>  >  >  >>like
>  >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush
> or
>  >  >  >>whatever.
>  >  >  >> >> >
>  >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
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>  >  >  >> >>
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>  >  >
>  >
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>  >  >  >> >
>  >  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
>  >  >  >> >
>  >  >  >>
>  >  >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
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>  >  >
>  >
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--------------EC7FCDDDDD90CEDB352387AF
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and extreme environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
x-mozilla-cpt:-12336
fn:www.avscanada.com
end:vcard
--------------EC7FCDDDDD90CEDB352387AF--
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
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message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Thu, 25 May 2000 08:56:36 -0700*
This would be a good time to learn that mistakes are made, by the admin.
dept. , lieutenants, and by members of lists.
Double check with the admin  NCO, better that you catch it now.
----- Original Message -----
From: F. A. 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> Trevor,
>
>         Inclined or not, honest, we‘re not fibbing you, I and I‘m quite
sure
> everyone else, would gain nothing from leading you astray. Time in uniform
as a
> cadet does not apply towards your CD... really.
>
> Francois
>
> Trevor Morin wrote:
>
> > i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an
instructor
> > in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to
believe
> > that the time does count!!
> >
> > From: Gunner 
> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
> >
> > Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
> > previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
> >
> > 1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
> > means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
> > doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
> > to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
> > repeat NOT a member of the CF.
> >
> > 2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
> > Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
> > Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve Force
> > and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
> > The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air Reserve,
> > Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex Regular
> > and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
> > Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
> > are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
> >
> > I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
> > please let me know.
> >
> > Trevor Morin wrote:
> >  >
> >  > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
> >  > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and
he
> > told
> >  > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time
as
> >  > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with
cadets,
> > so
> >  > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it does.
> > maybe
> >  > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
> >  >
> >  > From: Gunner 
> >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> >  > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
> >  >
> >  > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian
Decoration...the
> >  > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is
NOT
> >  > serving in the CF.
> >  >
> >  > Trevor Morin wrote:
> >  >  >
> >  >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian
Decoration.
> >  > i‘ve
> >  >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked
up on
> > my
> >  > CD
> >  >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
> >  >  >
> >  >  > From: ghallman 
> >  >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> >  >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
> >  >  >
> >  >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and
> > getting
> >  >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if
you‘re
> >  > looking
> >  >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join
the
> > Regs
> >  > or
> >  >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow
up a
> >  > bit,
> >  >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free
country
> >  > you
> >  >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by
our
> >  >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth
but
> > I
> >  >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging ****
although
> >  > they
> >  >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a
better
> >  >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for
joining
> >  > the
> >  >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the
Cadets
> >  >  > counts towards pensionable years?
> >  >  >
> >  >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >  >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your
self
> >  > well
> >  >  > it
> >  >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the
facted
> >  > that
> >  >  > we
> >  >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage
and
> >  > stuff
> >  >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and
rob
> >  > people
> >  >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching
and
> >  > drill
> >  >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that
the
> >  > Cadet
> >  >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would
have
> >  > more
> >  >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags.
and
> >  >  > reserves
> >  >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of
use go
> >  > the
> >  >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your
unit
> > and
> >  > see
> >  >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
> >  >  >  >
> >  >  >  >
> >  >  >  >>From: ghallman 
> >  >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >  >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
> >  >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >  >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP
id
> >  >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58
2000
> >  >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >  >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
> >  > army-outgoing
> >  >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
> >  >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  > [198.164.200.18]
> >  >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP
id
> >  >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000
16:53:45
> > -0400
> >  >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by
quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >  >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >  >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
> >  >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15
> > 2000
> >  >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
majordomo
> > set
> >  >  > sender
> >  >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >  >  >  >>Message-Id:
> >  >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >  >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
> >  >  >  >>References: 
> >  >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
> >  >  >  >>
> >  >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer
> > nerd
> >  >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
> >  > opinion.
> >  >  > Go
> >  >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot
better
> >  > then
> >  >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things
> > other
> >  >  > then
> >  >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do
you
> >  > cadets
> >  >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t
> > think
> >  > so.
> >  >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your
time
> >  > getting
> >  >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
> >  >  >  >>
> >  >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend
> >  > ghallman,
> >  >  >  >>he
> >  >  >  >>seems
> >  >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something
> > enormously
> >  >  >  >>stupid,
> >  >  >  >>then
> >  >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a
troll,
> >  > flame
> >  >  >  >>baiting
> >  >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your
unit
> >  > about
> >  >  >  >>their
> >  >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
> >  >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time,
> > there
> >  >  > have
> >  >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing
> > better
> >  > to
> >  >  >  >>do
> >  >  >  >>than
> >  >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them
feel
> >  >  >  >>superior...
> >  >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he
> > actually
> >  > ever
> >  >  >  >>had any
> >  >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions
and
> >  > bizarre
> >  >  >  >>ideas,
> >  >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all
about
> >  > teaching
> >  >  >  >>kids
> >  >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5
years
> > and
> >  > i
> >  >  >  >>have
> >  >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons
the
> >  > cadet
> >  >  >  >>leguie
> >  >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be
an
> >  >  > infendrey
> >  >  >  >>man
> >  >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up
your
> >  > theory.
> >  >  >  >>thanks
> >  >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks
> > again
> >  > kyle
> >  >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
> >  >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >  >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >  >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
ESMTP
> > id
> >  >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17
18:18:32
> >  > 2000
> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >  >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
> >  >  >  >>army-outgoing
> >  >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
> >  >  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
> > ESMTP
> >  > id
> >  >  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000
> > 20:38:21
> >  >  > -0400
> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by
> > quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >  >  >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >  >  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >  >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17
> > 18:22:47
> >  > 2000
> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
> > majordomo
> >  > set
> >  >  >  >>sender
> >  >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >  >  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
> >  > 
> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >  >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
> >  >  >  >> >> >References:
> > 
> >  >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than
horses?
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on
the
> >  >  > street.
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler
> > Youth.
> >  >  >  >>Teaching
> >  >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing
but I
> >  > don‘t
> >  >  >  >>think
> >  >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with
> > paintball
> >  >  > guns.
> >  >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think
that I
> >  > have
> >  >  > a
> >  >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball
when I
> > was
> >  > 12
> >  >  >  >>and
> >  >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on
my
> >  >  > infantry
> >  >  >  >>QL3
> >  >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.
I
> >  > think
> >  >  > we
> >  >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques
and
> >  > ****
> >  >  >  >>like
> >  >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an
ambush
> > or
> >  >  >  >>whatever.
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >  >  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  >  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  >  >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  >  >  >> >> >message body.
> >  >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >
> >  >
> >
>>________________________________________________________________________
> >  >  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  >  >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
> >  >  >  >> >>
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> >  >  >  >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >>
> >  >  >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
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> >  >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >
> >
>________________________________________________________________________
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> >  >  http://www.hotmail.com 
> >  >  >  >
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> >  >  >
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> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >  >  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  http://www.hotmail.com 
> >  >  >
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----------



## army

Posted by *Jay Paton <jazscam@netscape.net>* on *25 May 00 11:00:37 PDT*
Who cares if it is suppose to count or not it is on his record as counting. 
That is what is important.  RMS clerks are to busy with other things to catch
it and career managers don‘t know enough to find it.
"dave"  wrote:
This would be a good time to learn that mistakes are made, by the admin.
dept. , lieutenants, and by members of lists.
Double check with the admin  NCO, better that you catch it now.
----- Original Message -----
From: F. A. 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> Trevor,
>
>         Inclined or not, honest, we‘re not fibbing you, I and I‘m quite
sure
> everyone else, would gain nothing from leading you astray. Time in uniform
as a
> cadet does not apply towards your CD... really.
>
> Francois
>
> Trevor Morin wrote:
>
> > i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an
instructor
> > in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to
believe
> > that the time does count!!
> >
> > From: Gunner 
> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
> >
> > Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
> > previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
> >
> > 1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
> > means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
> > doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
> > to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
> > repeat NOT a member of the CF.
> >
> > 2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
> > Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
> > Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve Force
> > and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
> > The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air Reserve,
> > Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex Regular
> > and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
> > Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
> > are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
> >
> > I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
> > please let me know.
> >
> > Trevor Morin wrote:
> >  >
> >  > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
> >  > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and
he
> > told
> >  > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time
as
> >  > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with
cadets,
> > so
> >  > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it does.
> > maybe
> >  > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
> >  >
> >  > From: Gunner 
> >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> >  > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
> >  >
> >  > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian
Decoration...the
> >  > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is
NOT
> >  > serving in the CF.
> >  >
> >  > Trevor Morin wrote:
> >  >  >
> >  >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian
Decoration.
> >  > i‘ve
> >  >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked
up on
> > my
> >  > CD
> >  >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
> >  >  >
> >  >  > From: ghallman 
> >  >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> >  >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
> >  >  >
> >  >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and
> > getting
> >  >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if
you‘re
> >  > looking
> >  >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join
the
> > Regs
> >  > or
> >  >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow
up a
> >  > bit,
> >  >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free
country
> >  > you
> >  >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by
our
> >  >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth
but
> > I
> >  >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging ****
although
> >  > they
> >  >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a
better
> >  >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for
joining
> >  > the
> >  >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the
Cadets
> >  >  > counts towards pensionable years?
> >  >  >
> >  >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >  >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your
self
> >  > well
> >  >  > it
> >  >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the
facted
> >  > that
> >  >  > we
> >  >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage
and
> >  > stuff
> >  >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and
rob
> >  > people
> >  >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching
and
> >  > drill
> >  >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that
the
> >  > Cadet
> >  >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would
have
> >  > more
> >  >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags.
and
> >  >  > reserves
> >  >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of
use go
> >  > the
> >  >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your
unit
> > and
> >  > see
> >  >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
> >  >  >  >
> >  >  >  >
> >  >  >  >>From: ghallman 
> >  >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >  >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
> >  >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >  >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP
id
> >  >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58
2000
> >  >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >  >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
> >  > army-outgoing
> >  >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
> >  >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  > [198.164.200.18]
> >  >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP
id
> >  >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000
16:53:45
> > -0400
> >  >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by
quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >  >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >  >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
> >  >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15
> > 2000
> >  >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
majordomo
> > set
> >  >  > sender
> >  >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >  >  >  >>Message-Id:
> >  >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >  >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
> >  >  >  >>References: 
> >  >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
> >  >  >  >>
> >  >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer
> > nerd
> >  >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
> >  > opinion.
> >  >  > Go
> >  >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot
better
> >  > then
> >  >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things
> > other
> >  >  > then
> >  >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do
you
> >  > cadets
> >  >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t
> > think
> >  > so.
> >  >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your
time
> >  > getting
> >  >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
> >  >  >  >>
> >  >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend
> >  > ghallman,
> >  >  >  >>he
> >  >  >  >>seems
> >  >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something
> > enormously
> >  >  >  >>stupid,
> >  >  >  >>then
> >  >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a
troll,
> >  > flame
> >  >  >  >>baiting
> >  >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your
unit
> >  > about
> >  >  >  >>their
> >  >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
> >  >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time,
> > there
> >  >  > have
> >  >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing
> > better
> >  > to
> >  >  >  >>do
> >  >  >  >>than
> >  >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them
feel
> >  >  >  >>superior...
> >  >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he
> > actually
> >  > ever
> >  >  >  >>had any
> >  >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions
and
> >  > bizarre
> >  >  >  >>ideas,
> >  >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all
about
> >  > teaching
> >  >  >  >>kids
> >  >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5
years
> > and
> >  > i
> >  >  >  >>have
> >  >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons
the
> >  > cadet
> >  >  >  >>leguie
> >  >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be
an
> >  >  > infendrey
> >  >  >  >>man
> >  >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up
your
> >  > theory.
> >  >  >  >>thanks
> >  >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks
> > again
> >  > kyle
> >  >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
> >  >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >  >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >  >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
ESMTP
> > id
> >  >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17
18:18:32
> >  > 2000
> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >  >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
> >  >  >  >>army-outgoing
> >  >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
> >  >  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
> > ESMTP
> >  > id
> >  >  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000
> > 20:38:21
> >  >  > -0400
> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by
> > quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >  >  >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >  >  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >  >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17
> > 18:22:47
> >  > 2000
> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
> > majordomo
> >  > set
> >  >  >  >>sender
> >  >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >  >  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
> >  > 
> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >  >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
> >  >  >  >> >> >References:
> > 
> >  >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than
horses?
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on
the
> >  >  > street.
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler
> > Youth.
> >  >  >  >>Teaching
> >  >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing
but I
> >  > don‘t
> >  >  >  >>think
> >  >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with
> > paintball
> >  >  > guns.
> >  >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think
that I
> >  > have
> >  >  > a
> >  >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball
when I
> > was
> >  > 12
> >  >  >  >>and
> >  >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on
my
> >  >  > infantry
> >  >  >  >>QL3
> >  >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.
I
> >  > think
> >  >  > we
> >  >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques
and
> >  > ****
> >  >  >  >>like
> >  >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an
ambush
> > or
> >  >  >  >>whatever.
> >  >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >  >  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  >  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  >  >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  >  >  >> >> >message body.
> >  >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >
> >  >
> >
>>________________________________________________________________________
> >  >  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  >  >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
> >  >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >  >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
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> >  >  >  >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
> >  >  >  >> >
> >  >  >  >>
> >  >  >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
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> >  >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >
> >
>________________________________________________________________________
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> >  >  http://www.hotmail.com 
> >  >  >  >
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> >  >  >
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> >  >  >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
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> >  >  >
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> >  >
> >  >
________________________________________________________________________
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> >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Thu, 25 May 2000 22:18:57 -0300*
You mean that your CD due date is four years earlier on Peoplesoft
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Morin 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 24, 2000 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an
instructor
>in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to believe
>that the time does count!!
>
>
>From: Gunner 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
>
>Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
>previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
>
>1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
>means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
>doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
>to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
>repeat NOT a member of the CF.
>
>2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
>Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
>Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve Force
>and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
>The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air Reserve,
>Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex Regular
>and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
>Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
>are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
>
>I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
>please let me know.
>
>
>Trevor Morin wrote:
> >
> > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
> > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and he
>told
> > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time as
> > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with cadets,
>so
> > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it does.
>maybe
> > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
> >
> > From: Gunner 
> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
> >
> > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian Decoration...the
> > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is NOT
> > serving in the CF.
> >
> > Trevor Morin wrote:
> >  >
> >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian
Decoration.
> > i‘ve
> >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked up
on
>my
> > CD
> >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
> >  >
> >  > From: ghallman 
> >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
> >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
> >  >
> >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and
>getting
> >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if you‘re
> > looking
> >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join the
>Regs
> > or
> >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow up
a
> > bit,
> >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free
country
> > you
> >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by our
> >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the youth
but
>I
> >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging **** although
> > they
> >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a better
> >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for
joining
> > the
> >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the
Cadets
> >  > counts towards pensionable years?
> >  >
> >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your
self
> > well
> >  > it
> >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the
facted
> > that
> >  > we
> >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage and
> > stuff
> >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and rob
> > people
> >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of marching
and
> > drill
> >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think that
the
> > Cadet
> >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would have
> > more
> >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags. and
> >  > reserves
> >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of use
go
> > the
> >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your unit
>and
> > see
> >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
> >  >  >
> >  >  >
> >  >  >>From: ghallman 
> >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
> >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
> >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP id
> >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58
2000
> >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
> > army-outgoing
> >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
> >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> > [198.164.200.18]
> >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with ESMTP
id
> >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:45
>-0400
> >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
> >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18 14:55:15
>2000
> >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com: majordomo
>set
> >  > sender
> >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >  >  >>Message-Id:
> >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
> >  >  >>References: 
> >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
> >  >  >>
> >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a computer
>nerd
> >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
> > opinion.
> >  > Go
> >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot better
> > then
> >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on things
>other
> >  > then
> >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do you
> > cadets
> >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t
>think
> > so.
> >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your time
> > getting
> >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
> >  >  >>
> >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
> >  >  >> >
> >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little friend
> > ghallman,
> >  >  >>he
> >  >  >>seems
> >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something
>enormously
> >  >  >>stupid,
> >  >  >>then
> >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a troll,
> > flame
> >  >  >>baiting
> >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your
unit
> > about
> >  >  >>their
> >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
> >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that time,
>there
> >  > have
> >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had nothing
>better
> > to
> >  >  >>do
> >  >  >>than
> >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them feel
> >  >  >>superior...
> >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he
>actually
> > ever
> >  >  >>had any
> >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions and
> > bizarre
> >  >  >>ideas,
> >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
> >  >  >> >
> >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
> >  >  >> >
> >  >  >> >
> >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
> >  >  >> >
> >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all about
> > teaching
> >  >  >>kids
> >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5 years
>and
> > i
> >  >  >>have
> >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons the
> > cadet
> >  >  >>leguie
> >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be an
> >  > infendrey
> >  >  >>man
> >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up your
> > theory.
> >  >  >>thanks
> >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks
>again
> > kyle
> >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
> >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
> >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
> >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
ESMTP
>id
> >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17
18:18:32
> > 2000
> >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
> >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609 for
> >  >  >>army-outgoing
> >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
> >  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
> >  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
>ESMTP
> > id
> >  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000
>20:38:21
> >  > -0400
> >  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by
>quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
> >  >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
> >  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
> >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17
>18:22:47
> > 2000
> >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>majordomo
> > set
> >  >  >>sender
> >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
> >  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
> > 
> >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
> >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
> >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
> >  >  >> >> >References:
>
> >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
> >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than horses?
> >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on the
> >  > street.
> >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler
>Youth.
> >  >  >>Teaching
> >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing but I
> > don‘t
> >  >  >>think
> >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with
>paintball
> >  > guns.
> >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think that
I
> > have
> >  > a
> >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball when I
>was
> > 12
> >  >  >>and
> >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on my
> >  > infantry
> >  >  >>QL3
> >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.  I
> > think
> >  > we
> >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing techniques
and
> > ****
> >  >  >>like
> >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an ambush
>or
> >  >  >>whatever.
> >  >  >> >> >
> >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  >  >> >> >message body.
> >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >> >>
> >  >
> >
> >>________________________________________________________________________
> >  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
> >  >  >> >>
> >  >  >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >  >  >> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  >  >> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  >  >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  >  >> >> message body.
> >  >  >> >
> >  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
> >  >  >> >
> >  >  >>
> >  >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
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> >  >  >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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> >  >  >
> >  >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >  >  >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  http://www.hotmail.com 
> >  >  >
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> >  >
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> >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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> >  >
> >  >
>________________________________________________________________________
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> >  >
> >  > --------------------------------------------------------
> >  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
> >
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> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Thu, 25 May 2000 22:24:09 -0300*
errors happen, yes. But to said that Clerks are to busy to ensure accuracy,
well maybe that‘s not what you meant.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Paton 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 25, 2000 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: CADETS ghallman]
>Who cares if it is suppose to count or not it is on his record as counting.
>That is what is important.  RMS clerks are to busy with other things to
catch
>it and career managers don‘t know enough to find it.
>
>
>"dave"  wrote:
>This would be a good time to learn that mistakes are made, by the admin.
>dept. , lieutenants, and by members of lists.
>Double check with the admin  NCO, better that you catch it now.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: F. A. 
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:58 AM
>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>
>
>> Trevor,
>>
>>         Inclined or not, honest, we‘re not fibbing you, I and I‘m quite
>sure
>> everyone else, would gain nothing from leading you astray. Time in
uniform
>as a
>> cadet does not apply towards your CD... really.
>>
>> Francois
>>
>> Trevor Morin wrote:
>>
>> > i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an
>instructor
>> > in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to
>believe
>> > that the time does count!!
>> >
>> > From: Gunner 
>> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>> > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
>> >
>> > Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
>> > previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
>> >
>> > 1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
>> > means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
>> > doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
>> > to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
>> > repeat NOT a member of the CF.
>> >
>> > 2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
>> > Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
>> > Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve
Force
>> > and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
>> > The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air
Reserve,
>> > Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex
Regular
>> > and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
>> > Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
>> > are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
>> >
>> > I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
>> > please let me know.
>> >
>> > Trevor Morin wrote:
>> >  >
>> >  > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
>> >  > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and
>he
>> > told
>> >  > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time
>as
>> >  > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with
>cadets,
>> > so
>> >  > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it
does.
>> > maybe
>> >  > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
>> >  >
>> >  > From: Gunner 
>> >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>> >  > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
>> >  >
>> >  > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian
>Decoration...the
>> >  > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is
>NOT
>> >  > serving in the CF.
>> >  >
>> >  > Trevor Morin wrote:
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian
>Decoration.
>> >  > i‘ve
>> >  >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked
>up on
>> > my
>> >  > CD
>> >  >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > From: ghallman 
>> >  >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>> >  >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and
>> > getting
>> >  >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if
>you‘re
>> >  > looking
>> >  >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join
>the
>> > Regs
>> >  > or
>> >  >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow
>up a
>> >  > bit,
>> >  >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free
>country
>> >  > you
>> >  >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by
>our
>> >  >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the
youth
>but
>> > I
>> >  >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging ****
>although
>> >  > they
>> >  >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a
>better
>> >  >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for
>joining
>> >  > the
>> >  >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the
>Cadets
>> >  >  > counts towards pensionable years?
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>> >  >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your
>self
>> >  > well
>> >  >  > it
>> >  >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the
>facted
>> >  > that
>> >  >  > we
>> >  >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage
>and
>> >  > stuff
>> >  >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and
>rob
>> >  > people
>> >  >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of
marching
>and
>> >  > drill
>> >  >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think
that
>the
>> >  > Cadet
>> >  >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would
>have
>> >  > more
>> >  >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags.
>and
>> >  >  > reserves
>> >  >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of
>use go
>> >  > the
>> >  >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your
>unit
>> > and
>> >  > see
>> >  >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>> >  >  >  >
>> >  >  >  >
>> >  >  >  >>From: ghallman 
>> >  >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
>> >  >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>> >  >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >  >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP
>id
>> >  >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58
>2000
>> >  >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>> >  >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
>> >  > army-outgoing
>> >  >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>> >  >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  > [198.164.200.18]
>> >  >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
ESMTP
>id
>> >  >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000
>16:53:45
>> > -0400
>> >  >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by
>quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>> >  >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>> >  >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>> >  >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18
14:55:15
>> > 2000
>> >  >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>majordomo
>> > set
>> >  >  > sender
>> >  >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>> >  >  >  >>Message-Id:
>
>> >  >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>> >  >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
>> >  >  >  >>References: 
>> >  >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
>> >  >  >  >>
>> >  >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a
computer
>> > nerd
>> >  >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
>> >  > opinion.
>> >  >  > Go
>> >  >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot
>better
>> >  > then
>> >  >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on
things
>> > other
>> >  >  > then
>> >  >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do
>you
>> >  > cadets
>> >  >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t
>> > think
>> >  > so.
>> >  >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your
>time
>> >  > getting
>> >  >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>> >  >  >  >>
>> >  >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little
friend
>> >  > ghallman,
>> >  >  >  >>he
>> >  >  >  >>seems
>> >  >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something
>> > enormously
>> >  >  >  >>stupid,
>> >  >  >  >>then
>> >  >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a
>troll,
>> >  > flame
>> >  >  >  >>baiting
>> >  >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your
>unit
>> >  > about
>> >  >  >  >>their
>> >  >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>> >  >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that
time,
>> > there
>> >  >  > have
>> >  >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had
nothing
>> > better
>> >  > to
>> >  >  >  >>do
>> >  >  >  >>than
>> >  >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them
>feel
>> >  >  >  >>superior...
>> >  >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he
>> > actually
>> >  > ever
>> >  >  >  >>had any
>> >  >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions
>and
>> >  > bizarre
>> >  >  >  >>ideas,
>> >  >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all
>about
>> >  > teaching
>> >  >  >  >>kids
>> >  >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5
>years
>> > and
>> >  > i
>> >  >  >  >>have
>> >  >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons
>the
>> >  > cadet
>> >  >  >  >>leguie
>> >  >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be
>an
>> >  >  > infendrey
>> >  >  >  >>man
>> >  >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up
>your
>> >  > theory.
>> >  >  >  >>thanks
>> >  >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks
>> > again
>> >  > kyle
>> >  >  >  >> >>
>> >  >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>> >  >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
>ESMTP
>> > id
>> >  >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17
>18:18:32
>> >  > 2000
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>> >  >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609
for
>> >  >  >  >>army-outgoing
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
>> >  >  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
>> > ESMTP
>> >  > id
>> >  >  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000
>> > 20:38:21
>> >  >  > -0400
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by
>> > quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>> >  >  >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>> >  >  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
>> >  >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17
>> > 18:22:47
>> >  > 2000
>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>> > majordomo
>> >  > set
>> >  >  >  >>sender
>> >  >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
>> >  > 
>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>> >  >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
>> >  >  >  >> >> >References:
>> > 
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than
>horses?
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on
>the
>> >  >  > street.
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler
>> > Youth.
>> >  >  >  >>Teaching
>> >  >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing
>but I
>> >  > don‘t
>> >  >  >  >>think
>> >  >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with
>> > paintball
>> >  >  > guns.
>> >  >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think
>that I
>> >  > have
>> >  >  > a
>> >  >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball
>when I
>> > was
>> >  > 12
>> >  >  >  >>and
>> >  >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on
>my
>> >  >  > infantry
>> >  >  >  >>QL3
>> >  >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.
>I
>> >  > think
>> >  >  > we
>> >  >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing
techniques
>and
>> >  > ****
>> >  >  >  >>like
>> >  >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an
>ambush
>> > or
>> >  >  >  >>whatever.
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >  >  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >  >  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >  >  >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >  >  >  >> >> >message body.
>> >  >  >  >> >>
>> >  >  >  >> >>
>> >  >  >
>> >  >
>> >
>>>________________________________________________________________________
>> >  >  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>> >  >  >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
>> >  >  >  >> >>
>> >  >  >  >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
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>> >  >  >  >> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >  >  >  >> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >>
>> >  >  >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
>> >  >  >  >>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >  >  >  >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >  >  >  >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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>> >  >  >  >
>> >  >  >
>> >  >
>> >
>>________________________________________________________________________
>> >  >  >  >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>> >  >  http://www.hotmail.com 
>> >  >  >  >
>> >  >  >  >--------------------------------------------------------
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>> >  >  >  >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>> >  >  >
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>> >  >  >
>> >
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>> >  >  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>> >  http://www.hotmail.com 
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > --------------------------------------------------------
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>> >  >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >  >  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >  >  > message body.
>> >  > --------------------------------------------------------
>> >  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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>> >  >
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>________________________________________________________________________
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>http://www.hotmail.com
>> >  >
>> >  > --------------------------------------------------------
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>> >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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----------



## army

Posted by *Jay Paton <jazscam@netscape.net>* on *26 May 00 13:03:27 PDT*
Not to take anything away from clerk, but it is a very busy job and to check
to see if an x-cadet is going to get his CD in 10 years and six month or 11
years is just trival compared to making sure a company full of infantry get
thier pay.
"Scott Lloyd"  wrote:
errors happen, yes. But to said that Clerks are to busy to ensure accuracy,
well maybe that‘s not what you meant.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Paton 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 25, 2000 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: CADETS ghallman]
>Who cares if it is suppose to count or not it is on his record as counting.
>That is what is important.  RMS clerks are to busy with other things to
catch
>it and career managers don‘t know enough to find it.
>
>
>"dave"  wrote:
>This would be a good time to learn that mistakes are made, by the admin.
>dept. , lieutenants, and by members of lists.
>Double check with the admin  NCO, better that you catch it now.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: F. A. 
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:58 AM
>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>
>
>> Trevor,
>>
>>         Inclined or not, honest, we‘re not fibbing you, I and I‘m quite
>sure
>> everyone else, would gain nothing from leading you astray. Time in
uniform
>as a
>> cadet does not apply towards your CD... really.
>>
>> Francois
>>
>> Trevor Morin wrote:
>>
>> > i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an
>instructor
>> > in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to
>believe
>> > that the time does count!!
>> >
>> > From: Gunner 
>> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>> > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
>> >
>> > Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
>> > previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
>> >
>> > 1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
>> > means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
>> > doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
>> > to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
>> > repeat NOT a member of the CF.
>> >
>> > 2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
>> > Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
>> > Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve
Force
>> > and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
>> > The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air
Reserve,
>> > Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex
Regular
>> > and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
>> > Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
>> > are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
>> >
>> > I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
>> > please let me know.
>> >
>> > Trevor Morin wrote:
>> >  >
>> >  > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
>> >  > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander and
>he
>> > told
>> >  > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my time
>as
>> >  > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with
>cadets,
>> > so
>> >  > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it
does.
>> > maybe
>> >  > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
>> >  >
>> >  > From: Gunner 
>> >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>> >  > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
>> >  >
>> >  > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian
>Decoration...the
>> >  > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is
>NOT
>> >  > serving in the CF.
>> >  >
>> >  > Trevor Morin wrote:
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian
>Decoration.
>> >  > i‘ve
>> >  >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked
>up on
>> > my
>> >  > CD
>> >  >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > From: ghallman 
>> >  >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>> >  >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and
>> > getting
>> >  >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if
>you‘re
>> >  > looking
>> >  >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join
>the
>> > Regs
>> >  > or
>> >  >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to grow
>up a
>> >  > bit,
>> >  >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free
>country
>> >  > you
>> >  >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained by
>our
>> >  >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the
youth
>but
>> > I
>> >  >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging ****
>although
>> >  > they
>> >  >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a
>better
>> >  >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for
>joining
>> >  > the
>> >  >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the
>Cadets
>> >  >  > counts towards pensionable years?
>> >  >  >
>> >  >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>> >  >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot **** your
>self
>> >  > well
>> >  >  > it
>> >  >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the
>facted
>> >  > that
>> >  >  > we
>> >  >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage
>and
>> >  > stuff
>> >  >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around and
>rob
>> >  > people
>> >  >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of
marching
>and
>> >  > drill
>> >  >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think
that
>the
>> >  > Cadet
>> >  >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would
>have
>> >  > more
>> >  >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags.
>and
>> >  >  > reserves
>> >  >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of
>use go
>> >  > the
>> >  >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your
>unit
>> > and
>> >  > see
>> >  >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>> >  >  >  >
>> >  >  >  >
>> >  >  >  >>From: ghallman 
>> >  >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
>> >  >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>> >  >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >  >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with ESMTP
>id
>> >  >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18 14:54:58
>2000
>> >  >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>> >  >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
>> >  > army-outgoing
>> >  >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>> >  >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  > [198.164.200.18]
>> >  >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
ESMTP
>id
>> >  >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000
>16:53:45
>> > -0400
>> >  >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by
>quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>> >  >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>> >  >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>> >  >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18
14:55:15
>> > 2000
>> >  >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>majordomo
>> > set
>> >  >  > sender
>> >  >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>> >  >  >  >>Message-Id:
>
>> >  >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>> >  >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
>> >  >  >  >>References: 
>> >  >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
>> >  >  >  >>
>> >  >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a
computer
>> > nerd
>> >  >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on my
>> >  > opinion.
>> >  >  > Go
>> >  >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot
>better
>> >  > then
>> >  >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on
things
>> > other
>> >  >  > then
>> >  >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do
>you
>> >  > cadets
>> >  >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I don‘t
>> > think
>> >  > so.
>> >  >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your
>time
>> >  > getting
>> >  >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>> >  >  >  >>
>> >  >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little
friend
>> >  > ghallman,
>> >  >  >  >>he
>> >  >  >  >>seems
>> >  >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something
>> > enormously
>> >  >  >  >>stupid,
>> >  >  >  >>then
>> >  >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a
>troll,
>> >  > flame
>> >  >  >  >>baiting
>> >  >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in your
>unit
>> >  > about
>> >  >  >  >>their
>> >  >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>> >  >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that
time,
>> > there
>> >  >  > have
>> >  >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had
nothing
>> > better
>> >  > to
>> >  >  >  >>do
>> >  >  >  >>than
>> >  >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them
>feel
>> >  >  >  >>superior...
>> >  >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he
>> > actually
>> >  > ever
>> >  >  >  >>had any
>> >  >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions
>and
>> >  > bizarre
>> >  >  >  >>ideas,
>> >  >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all
>about
>> >  > teaching
>> >  >  >  >>kids
>> >  >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5
>years
>> > and
>> >  > i
>> >  >  >  >>have
>> >  >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance reasons
>the
>> >  > cadet
>> >  >  >  >>leguie
>> >  >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be
>an
>> >  >  > infendrey
>> >  >  >  >>man
>> >  >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up
>your
>> >  > theory.
>> >  >  >  >>thanks
>> >  >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse. thanks
>> > again
>> >  > kyle
>> >  >  >  >> >>
>> >  >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>> >  >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
>ESMTP
>> > id
>> >  >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17
>18:18:32
>> >  > 2000
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>> >  >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609
for
>> >  >  >  >>army-outgoing
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
>> >  >  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
>> > ESMTP
>> >  > id
>> >  >  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000
>> > 20:38:21
>> >  >  > -0400
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by
>> > quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
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>> >  >  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000 21:49:18 -0300
>> >  >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17
>> > 18:22:47
>> >  > 2000
>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>> > majordomo
>> >  > set
>> >  >  >  >>sender
>> >  >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
>> >  > 
>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>> >  >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
>> >  >  >  >> >> >References:
>> > 
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than
>horses?
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting on
>the
>> >  >  > street.
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own Hitler
>> > Youth.
>> >  >  >  >>Teaching
>> >  >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing
>but I
>> >  > don‘t
>> >  >  >  >>think
>> >  >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with
>> > paintball
>> >  >  > guns.
>> >  >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think
>that I
>> >  > have
>> >  >  > a
>> >  >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball
>when I
>> > was
>> >  > 12
>> >  >  >  >>and
>> >  >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people on
>my
>> >  >  > infantry
>> >  >  >  >>QL3
>> >  >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were learning.
>I
>> >  > think
>> >  >  > we
>> >  >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing
techniques
>and
>> >  > ****
>> >  >  >  >>like
>> >  >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an
>ambush
>> > or
>> >  >  >  >>whatever.
>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >  >  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >  >  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >  >  >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >  >  >  >> >> >message body.
>> >  >  >  >> >>
>> >  >  >  >> >>
>> >  >  >
>> >  >
>> >
>>>________________________________________________________________________
>> >  >  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>> >  >  >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
>> >  >  >  >> >>
>> >  >  >  >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
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>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
>> >  >  >  >> >
>> >  >  >  >>
>> >  >  >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
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>> >  >  >
>> >  >
>> >
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>> >  >  >
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>> >  >  >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Scott Lloyd" <elscotto@sprint.ca>* on *Sat, 27 May 2000 23:12:29 -0300*
Jay, Infantry dress up and play soldier not for the pay but to relive thier
lost childhood... just kidding
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Paton 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 26, 2000 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: CADETS ghallman]]
>Not to take anything away from clerk, but it is a very busy job and to
check
>to see if an x-cadet is going to get his CD in 10 years and six month or 11
>years is just trival compared to making sure a company full of infantry get
>thier pay.
>
>
>"Scott Lloyd"  wrote:
>errors happen, yes. But to said that Clerks are to busy to ensure accuracy,
>well maybe that‘s not what you meant.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jay Paton 
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>Date: May 25, 2000 3:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [Re: CADETS ghallman]
>
>
>>Who cares if it is suppose to count or not it is on his record as
counting.
>>That is what is important.  RMS clerks are to busy with other things to
>catch
>>it and career managers don‘t know enough to find it.
>>
>>
>>"dave"  wrote:
>>This would be a good time to learn that mistakes are made, by the admin.
>>dept. , lieutenants, and by members of lists.
>>Double check with the admin  NCO, better that you catch it now.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: F. A. 
>>To: 
>>Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:58 AM
>>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>>
>>
>>> Trevor,
>>>
>>>         Inclined or not, honest, we‘re not fibbing you, I and I‘m quite
>>sure
>>> everyone else, would gain nothing from leading you astray. Time in
>uniform
>>as a
>>> cadet does not apply towards your CD... really.
>>>
>>> Francois
>>>
>>> Trevor Morin wrote:
>>>
>>> > i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an
>>instructor
>>> > in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to
>>believe
>>> > that the time does count!!
>>> >
>>> > From: Gunner 
>>> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>>> > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
>>> >
>>> > Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
>>> > previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
>>> >
>>> > 1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
>>> > means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
>>> > doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
>>> > to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
>>> > repeat NOT a member of the CF.
>>> >
>>> > 2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
>>> > Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
>>> > Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve
>Force
>>> > and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
>>> > The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air
>Reserve,
>>> > Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex
>Regular
>>> > and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
>>> > Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
>>> > are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
>>> >
>>> > I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
>>> > please let me know.
>>> >
>>> > Trevor Morin wrote:
>>> >  >
>>> >  > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
>>> >  > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander
and
>>he
>>> > told
>>> >  > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my
time
>>as
>>> >  > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with
>>cadets,
>>> > so
>>> >  > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it
>does.
>>> > maybe
>>> >  > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
>>> >  >
>>> >  > From: Gunner 
>>> >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>>> >  > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
>>> >  >
>>> >  > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian
>>Decoration...the
>>> >  > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is
>>NOT
>>> >  > serving in the CF.
>>> >  >
>>> >  > Trevor Morin wrote:
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian
>>Decoration.
>>> >  > i‘ve
>>> >  >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked
>>up on
>>> > my
>>> >  > CD
>>> >  >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > From: ghallman 
>>> >  >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>>> >  >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and
>>> > getting
>>> >  >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if
>>you‘re
>>> >  > looking
>>> >  >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join
>>the
>>> > Regs
>>> >  > or
>>> >  >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to
grow
>>up a
>>> >  > bit,
>>> >  >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free
>>country
>>> >  > you
>>> >  >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained
by
>>our
>>> >  >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the
>youth
>>but
>>> > I
>>> >  >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging ****
>>although
>>> >  > they
>>> >  >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a
>>better
>>> >  >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for
>>joining
>>> >  > the
>>> >  >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the
>>Cadets
>>> >  >  > counts towards pensionable years?
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>>> >  >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot ****
your
>>self
>>> >  > well
>>> >  >  > it
>>> >  >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the
>>facted
>>> >  > that
>>> >  >  > we
>>> >  >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage
>>and
>>> >  > stuff
>>> >  >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around
and
>>rob
>>> >  > people
>>> >  >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of
>marching
>>and
>>> >  > drill
>>> >  >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think
>that
>>the
>>> >  > Cadet
>>> >  >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would
>>have
>>> >  > more
>>> >  >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags.
>>and
>>> >  >  > reserves
>>> >  >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of
>>use go
>>> >  > the
>>> >  >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your
>>unit
>>> > and
>>> >  > see
>>> >  >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>>> >  >  >  >
>>> >  >  >  >
>>> >  >  >  >>From: ghallman 
>>> >  >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
>>> >  >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>>> >  >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> >  >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
ESMTP
>>id
>>> >  >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18
14:54:58
>>2000
>>> >  >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>>> >  >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
>>> >  > army-outgoing
>>> >  >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>>> >  >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  > [198.164.200.18]
>>> >  >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
>ESMTP
>>id
>>> >  >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000
>>16:53:45
>>> > -0400
>>> >  >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by
>>quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>>> >  >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>>> >  >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>>> >  >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18
>14:55:15
>>> > 2000
>>> >  >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>>majordomo
>>> > set
>>> >  >  > sender
>>> >  >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>>> >  >  >  >>Message-Id:
>>
>>> >  >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>>> >  >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
>>> >  >  >  >>References: 
>>> >  >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
>>> >  >  >  >>
>>> >  >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a
>computer
>>> > nerd
>>> >  >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on
my
>>> >  > opinion.
>>> >  >  > Go
>>> >  >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot
>>better
>>> >  > then
>>> >  >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on
>things
>>> > other
>>> >  >  > then
>>> >  >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do
>>you
>>> >  > cadets
>>> >  >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I
don‘t
>>> > think
>>> >  > so.
>>> >  >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your
>>time
>>> >  > getting
>>> >  >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>>> >  >  >  >>
>>> >  >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little
>friend
>>> >  > ghallman,
>>> >  >  >  >>he
>>> >  >  >  >>seems
>>> >  >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something
>>> > enormously
>>> >  >  >  >>stupid,
>>> >  >  >  >>then
>>> >  >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a
>>troll,
>>> >  > flame
>>> >  >  >  >>baiting
>>> >  >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in
your
>>unit
>>> >  > about
>>> >  >  >  >>their
>>> >  >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>>> >  >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that
>time,
>>> > there
>>> >  >  > have
>>> >  >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had
>nothing
>>> > better
>>> >  > to
>>> >  >  >  >>do
>>> >  >  >  >>than
>>> >  >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them
>>feel
>>> >  >  >  >>superior...
>>> >  >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he
>>> > actually
>>> >  > ever
>>> >  >  >  >>had any
>>> >  >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions
>>and
>>> >  > bizarre
>>> >  >  >  >>ideas,
>>> >  >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all
>>about
>>> >  > teaching
>>> >  >  >  >>kids
>>> >  >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5
>>years
>>> > and
>>> >  > i
>>> >  >  >  >>have
>>> >  >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance
reasons
>>the
>>> >  > cadet
>>> >  >  >  >>leguie
>>> >  >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be
>>an
>>> >  >  > infendrey
>>> >  >  >  >>man
>>> >  >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up
>>your
>>> >  > theory.
>>> >  >  >  >>thanks
>>> >  >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse.
thanks
>>> > again
>>> >  > kyle
>>> >  >  >  >> >>
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
>>ESMTP
>>> > id
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17
>>18:18:32
>>> >  > 2000
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609
>for
>>> >  >  >  >>army-outgoing
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
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with
>>> > ESMTP
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>>> > 20:38:21
>>> >  >  > -0400
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>>> >  >  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000
21:49:18 -0300
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17
>>> > 18:22:47
>>> >  > 2000
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>>> > majordomo
>>> >  > set
>>> >  >  >  >>sender
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
>>> >  > 
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >References:
>>> > 
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than
>>horses?
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting
on
>>the
>>> >  >  > street.
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own
Hitler
>>> > Youth.
>>> >  >  >  >>Teaching
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing
>>but I
>>> >  > don‘t
>>> >  >  >  >>think
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with
>>> > paintball
>>> >  >  > guns.
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think
>>that I
>>> >  > have
>>> >  >  > a
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball
>>when I
>>> > was
>>> >  > 12
>>> >  >  >  >>and
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people
on
>>my
>>> >  >  > infantry
>>> >  >  >  >>QL3
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were
learning.
>>I
>>> >  > think
>>> >  >  > we
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing
>techniques
>>and
>>> >  > ****
>>> >  >  >  >>like
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an
>>ambush
>>> > or
>>> >  >  >  >>whatever.
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>>> >  >  >  >> >>
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >
>>> >
>>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>> >  >  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
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----------



## army

Posted by *Jay Paton <jazscam@netscape.net>* on *27 May 00 22:52:27 PDT*
Yeah that is what I thought. Hah Hah
"Scott Lloyd"  wrote:
Jay, Infantry dress up and play soldier not for the pay but to relive thier
lost childhood... just kidding
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Paton 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: May 26, 2000 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: CADETS ghallman]]
>Not to take anything away from clerk, but it is a very busy job and to
check
>to see if an x-cadet is going to get his CD in 10 years and six month or 11
>years is just trival compared to making sure a company full of infantry get
>thier pay.
>
>
>"Scott Lloyd"  wrote:
>errors happen, yes. But to said that Clerks are to busy to ensure accuracy,
>well maybe that‘s not what you meant.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jay Paton 
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>Date: May 25, 2000 3:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [Re: CADETS ghallman]
>
>
>>Who cares if it is suppose to count or not it is on his record as
counting.
>>That is what is important.  RMS clerks are to busy with other things to
>catch
>>it and career managers don‘t know enough to find it.
>>
>>
>>"dave"  wrote:
>>This would be a good time to learn that mistakes are made, by the admin.
>>dept. , lieutenants, and by members of lists.
>>Double check with the admin  NCO, better that you catch it now.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: F. A. 
>>To: 
>>Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:58 AM
>>Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>>
>>
>>> Trevor,
>>>
>>>         Inclined or not, honest, we‘re not fibbing you, I and I‘m quite
>>sure
>>> everyone else, would gain nothing from leading you astray. Time in
>uniform
>>as a
>>> cadet does not apply towards your CD... really.
>>>
>>> Francois
>>>
>>> Trevor Morin wrote:
>>>
>>> > i don‘t know.....when i‘m told by a lieutenant that my time as an
>>instructor
>>> > in cadets counts and when it shows up on my record, i‘m inclined to
>>believe
>>> > that the time does count!!
>>> >
>>> > From: Gunner 
>>> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>>> > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:31:17 -0600
>>> >
>>> > Trevor, before you make a fool of yourself, go back and reread the
>>> > previous posts.  Let me spell it out for you:
>>> >
>>> > 1.  Cadet time does not repeat not count as time toward your CD.  This
>>> > means if you are a cadet 12 - 19 years of age in a cadet uniform,
>>> > doing cadet things, it does not count toward a CD.  A CD is only given
>>> > to members of the Canadian Forces...If you are a cadet you are not
>>> > repeat NOT a member of the CF.
>>> >
>>> > 2.  If you are an member of the Cadet Instructor‘s List CIL/Cadet
>>> > Instructor‘s Cadre CIC you are considered a member of the Reserve
>>> > Force.  Remember the CF consists of the Regular Force, the Reserve
>Force
>>> > and the Special Force only enacted by Parliament - WWII, Korea, etc.
>>> > The Reserve Force consists of the Primary Reserve Militia, Air
>Reserve,
>>> > Comm Res and Naval Reserve, the Supplementary Ready Reserve ex
>Regular
>>> > and primary reserve members, the Canadian Rangers and the Cadet
>>> > Instructor‘s Cadre.  Hence, if you are in or were in the CIC then you
>>> > are a member of the CF and are entitled to time credit toward your CD.
>>> >
>>> > I hope this clears up your confusion, if you need anything clarified,
>>> > please let me know.
>>> >
>>> > Trevor Morin wrote:
>>> >  >
>>> >  > YES IT DOES!!!!!! i don‘t know where all of you people get your
>>> >  > information!! i already checked it out with my platoon commander
and
>>he
>>> > told
>>> >  > me that not all my time in cadets counts towards my CD, only my
time
>>as
>>> >  > instructor in cadets. i have like 3 years as an instructor with
>>cadets,
>>> > so
>>> >  > that went onto my CD. don‘t tell me it doesn‘t count because it
>does.
>>> > maybe
>>> >  > you people should research the topic a little more!!!!
>>> >  >
>>> >  > From: Gunner 
>>> >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>>> >  > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:12:16 -0600
>>> >  >
>>> >  > Your time in cadets does NOT count toward you Canadian
>>Decoration...the
>>> >  > CD is only granted to members who SERVE 12 years...Cadet service is
>>NOT
>>> >  > serving in the CF.
>>> >  >
>>> >  > Trevor Morin wrote:
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > actually, your time in cadets counts towards your Canadian
>>Decoration.
>>> >  > i‘ve
>>> >  >  > only been with the militia for 1 year, but i have 5 years tacked
>>up on
>>> > my
>>> >  > CD
>>> >  >  > because of my time with cadets. only 7 years to go!!!
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > From: ghallman 
>>> >  >  > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  > Subject: Re: CADETS ghallman
>>> >  >  > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:22:32 -0300
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > I think you should spend more time doing something physical and
>>> > getting
>>> >  >  > tutored in English then running around picking up garbage if
>>you‘re
>>> >  > looking
>>> >  >  > to do well in the Reg. Forces.  Hopefully if you choose to join
>>the
>>> > Regs
>>> >  > or
>>> >  >  > Militia you will be more mature.  I can see that you need to
grow
>>up a
>>> >  > bit,
>>> >  >  > calling me an ******* for expressing my views.  This is a free
>>country
>>> >  > you
>>> >  >  > know.  Do you not value the freedoms that have been maintained
by
>>our
>>> >  >  > veterans?  The Hitler Youth movement sure was a waste of the
>youth
>>but
>>> > I
>>> >  >  > don‘t think they ran around robbing people and damaging ****
>>although
>>> >  > they
>>> >  >  > sure did do some pretty sick ****.  The cadets may make you a
>>better
>>> >  >  > Canadian Citizen but its not all that much of a head start for
>>joining
>>> >  > the
>>> >  >  > Army from what I‘ve seen.  Does anyone know if your time in the
>>Cadets
>>> >  >  > counts towards pensionable years?
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > At 06:03 PM 19/05/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>>> >  >  >  >nice words of *******. i think that u thank u are hot ****
your
>>self
>>> >  > well
>>> >  >  > it
>>> >  >  >  >might by ture and might not be true. but u should look at the
>>facted
>>> >  > that
>>> >  >  > we
>>> >  >  >  >are doing somethingfor your commuites like cleaning up garbage
>>and
>>> >  > stuff
>>> >  >  >  >like that. we could be like the hitler youth and run around
and
>>rob
>>> >  > people
>>> >  >  >  >and damage all kinds of ****. and yes we do do a lot of
>marching
>>and
>>> >  > drill
>>> >  >  >  >because it teachs desapline, team work. as for that i think
>that
>>the
>>> >  > Cadet
>>> >  >  >  >movment is a great thing. if there was not cadet then we would
>>have
>>> >  > more
>>> >  >  >  >youth in drugs and crime. where do all of the guy in the rags.
>>and
>>> >  >  > reserves
>>> >  >  >  >come from a hole in the ground because a ever large number of
>>use go
>>> >  > the
>>> >  >  >  >army when we retire out of cadets so start asking around your
>>unit
>>> > and
>>> >  > see
>>> >  >  >  >how many guys say they were in cadets.  kyle
>>> >  >  >  >
>>> >  >  >  >
>>> >  >  >  >>From: ghallman 
>>> >  >  >  >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>Subject: Re: CADETS
>>> >  >  >  >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:38 -0300
>>> >  >  >  >>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> >  >  >  >>Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
ESMTP
>>id
>>> >  >  >  >>MHotMailBAEDB1AF0054D82197D2CFEC03BD65830 Thu May 18
14:54:58
>>2000
>>> >  >  >  >>Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>>> >  >  >  >>cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id QAA19841 for
>>> >  > army-outgoing
>>> >  >  >  >>Thu, 18 May 2000 16:53:57 -0400
>>> >  >  >  >>Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  > [198.164.200.18]
>>> >  >  >  >>        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4 with
>ESMTP
>>id
>>> >  >  >  >>QAA19838 for  Thu, 18 May 2000
>>16:53:45
>>> > -0400
>>> >  >  >  >>Received: from ghallman [198.164.250.70] by
>>quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>>> >  >  >  >>0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>>> >  >  >  >> Thu, 18 May 2000 18:05:45 -0300
>>> >  >  >  >>From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Thu May 18
>14:55:15
>>> > 2000
>>> >  >  >  >>X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>>majordomo
>>> > set
>>> >  >  > sender
>>> >  >  >  >>to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>>> >  >  >  >>Message-Id:
>>
>>> >  >  >  >>X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>>> >  >  >  >>In-Reply-To: 
>>> >  >  >  >>References: 
>>> >  >  >  >>Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>Precedence: bulk
>>> >  >  >  >>
>>> >  >  >  >>Theres a difference between laying low and not being a
>computer
>>> > nerd
>>> >  >  >  >>sitting at my computer waiting for some REMFs to comment on
my
>>> >  > opinion.
>>> >  >  > Go
>>> >  >  >  >>shine your boots cadet and yes cadets drill a ****  of a lot
>>better
>>> >  > then
>>> >  >  >  >>infantry regiments because we spend our training time on
>things
>>> > other
>>> >  >  > then
>>> >  >  >  >>marching.  Thats something to be proud of not ashamed of.  Do
>>you
>>> >  > cadets
>>> >  >  >  >>think you can do what I do and my fellow soldiers do.  I
don‘t
>>> > think
>>> >  > so.
>>> >  >  >  >>Go play hockey or rugby or something other then wasting your
>>time
>>> >  > getting
>>> >  >  >  >>yelled at by some 15 year old sergent who thinks he **** hot.
>>> >  >  >  >>
>>> >  >  >  >> >To Kyle and Trevor,
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >        Good on you both! Don‘t worry about our little
>friend
>>> >  > ghallman,
>>> >  >  >  >>he
>>> >  >  >  >>seems
>>> >  >  >  >> >to vanished this evening. Nothing like saying something
>>> > enormously
>>> >  >  >  >>stupid,
>>> >  >  >  >>then
>>> >  >  >  >> >laying low, eh ghallman? You‘re starting to sound like a
>>troll,
>>> >  > flame
>>> >  >  >  >>baiting
>>> >  >  >  >> >perhaps? Have you considered asking some of the guys in
your
>>unit
>>> >  > about
>>> >  >  >  >>their
>>> >  >  >  >> >time in cadets? You may be rather surprised.
>>> >  >  >  >> >        Cadets have been around since 1862, in all that
>time,
>>> > there
>>> >  >  > have
>>> >  >  >  >> >occasionally been uneducated malcontents who have had
>nothing
>>> > better
>>> >  > to
>>> >  >  >  >>do
>>> >  >  >  >>than
>>> >  >  >  >> >attack something they nothing about. I guess it makes them
>>feel
>>> >  >  >  >>superior...
>>> >  >  >  >> >almost better than cadets LOL! But fear not fellas, if he
>>> > actually
>>> >  > ever
>>> >  >  >  >>had any
>>> >  >  >  >> >exposure amounting to more than preconceived misconceptions
>>and
>>> >  > bizarre
>>> >  >  >  >>ideas,
>>> >  >  >  >> >he wouldn‘t have made this reprehensible remarks.
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >Francois I don‘t hide behind any name/alias Arseneault
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >kyle sharp wrote:
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> hi there to all of u guys who think that cadets is all
>>about
>>> >  > teaching
>>> >  >  >  >>kids
>>> >  >  >  >> >> to kill each other. I have been a Cadet for the past 4.5
>>years
>>> > and
>>> >  > i
>>> >  >  >  >>have
>>> >  >  >  >> >> ever been taught to kill anyone, and for insurance
reasons
>>the
>>> >  > cadet
>>> >  >  >  >>leguie
>>> >  >  >  >> >> will not let use play paintball. I have been taught to be
>>an
>>> >  >  > infendrey
>>> >  >  >  >>man
>>> >  >  >  >> >> and i have enever been taught to kill so that screws up
>>your
>>> >  > theory.
>>> >  >  >  >>thanks
>>> >  >  >  >> >> for come out. and we have more brains then a horse.
thanks
>>> > again
>>> >  > kyle
>>> >  >  >  >> >>
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >From: ghallman 
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Subject: Re: CADETS
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:52:08 -0300
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from [207.236.3.189] by hotmail.com 3.2 with
>>ESMTP
>>> > id
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >MHotMailBAEC8FE4001ED82197B5CFEC03BD38170 Wed May 17
>>18:18:32
>>> >  > 2000
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from majordomo@localhost          by
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4  id UAA13609
>for
>>> >  >  >  >>army-outgoing
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:30 -0400
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from quartz.nbnet.nb.ca mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  >  >  >>[198.164.200.18]
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >        by cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com 8.8.4/8.8.4
with
>>> > ESMTP
>>> >  > id
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >UAA13606 for  Wed, 17 May 2000
>>> > 20:38:21
>>> >  >  > -0400
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Received: from ghallman [198.164.251.66] by
>>> > quartz.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223          ID
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >0-66826U105000L105000S0V35 with SMTP id ca          for
>>> >  >  >  >> >> > Wed, 17 May 2000
21:49:18 -0300
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >From owner-army@cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com Wed May 17
>>> > 18:22:47
>>> >  > 2000
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Authentication-Warning: cpu2212.adsl.bellglobal.com:
>>> > majordomo
>>> >  > set
>>> >  >  >  >>sender
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >to owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca using -f
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Message-Id:
>>> >  > 
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Sender: ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 32
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >In-Reply-To: 
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >References:
>>> > 
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Sender: owner-army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Precedence: bulk
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >you know the saying that goes along with cadets.
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Q: Why did God give Cadets one more I.Q. point than
>>horses?
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >A: Its so Cadets can march in parades without ****ting
on
>>the
>>> >  >  > street.
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >Personally I don‘t think that Canada needs its own
Hitler
>>> > Youth.
>>> >  >  >  >>Teaching
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >kids leadership, teamwork and how to march is one thing
>>but I
>>> >  > don‘t
>>> >  >  >  >>think
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >that 13 year olds should be taught combat tactics with
>>> > paintball
>>> >  >  > guns.
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >This isn‘t coming from a pacifist either so don‘t think
>>that I
>>> >  > have
>>> >  >  > a
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >prejudiced point of view.  I started playing paintball
>>when I
>>> > was
>>> >  > 12
>>> >  >  >  >>and
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >joined the militia when I was 17.  A lot of the people
on
>>my
>>> >  >  > infantry
>>> >  >  >  >>QL3
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >were to immature to be learning  what they were
learning.
>>I
>>> >  > think
>>> >  >  > we
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >should let kids be kids, why teach them killing
>techniques
>>and
>>> >  > ****
>>> >  >  >  >>like
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >that.  I don‘t think a kid needs to know how to do an
>>ambush
>>> > or
>>> >  >  >  >>whatever.
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>> >  >  >  >> >> >message body.
>>> >  >  >  >> >>
>>> >  >  >  >> >>
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >
>>> >
>>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>> >  >  >  >> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>>> >  >  >  >>http://www.hotmail.com
>>> >  >  >  >> >>
>>> >  >  >  >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
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>>> >  >  >  >> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>>> >  >  >  >> >> message body.
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\zzzzzzz77.vcf"
>>> >  >  >  >> >
>>> >  >  >  >>
>>> >  >  >  >>--------------------------------------------------------
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>>> >  >  >  >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>>> >  >  >  >
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >
>>> >
>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>> >  >  >  >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>>> >  >  http://www.hotmail.com 
>>> >  >  >  >
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>>> >  >  >
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>>> >  >  >
>>> >
>________________________________________________________________________
>>> >  >  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>>> >  http://www.hotmail.com 
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > --------------------------------------------------------
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>>> >  >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>>> >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>>> >  > message body.
>>> >  >
>>> >  >
>>________________________________________________________________________
>>> >  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>>http://www.hotmail.com
>>> >  >
>>> >  > --------------------------------------------------------
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>>> >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>>> >
>>> >
>________________________________________________________________________
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>>> >
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>>> > message body.
>>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
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>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>message body.
>>
>>
>>____________________________________________________________________
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>http://webmail.netscape.com.
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>
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## army

Posted by *Jay Paton <jazscam@netscape.net>* on *26 Oct 00 10:49:12 PDT*
Hey jenn,
It would probably be best if you just shot out a question and monitor the
responses. 
onmyfaceforJesus@punkjunk.com jenn cole wrote:
The following comments were submitted by
jenn cole onmyfaceforJesus@punkjunk.com on
Wednesday, October 25, 2000 at 16:26:25
to the Canadian Army Mailing List.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
i‘m doing a major independent study project on the current state of the
canadian military and on the damaging effects the amall size of our military
has on soldiers.  i‘ve read the citizen articles, however that information is
in some way biased and i would like any additional information available, if
anyone could help me out.  i appreciate it.  thanks.\
jenn
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
For more information, please see The Canadian Army Home Page at:
 http://army.cipherlogic.on.ca 
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