# New Optics for new rifle, suggestions?



## pappy (27 Nov 2004)

Well I picked up a new rifle and how have to make the choice of some optics to fit it with.... 
Bushmaster M4A3...  nothing fancy...  

I already own a 4x32 ACOG that's mounted on my other AR,  I've had the ACOG since 1994ish and am tempted to just get another one...  but maybe something different this time...  I've been looking at this optics:

1, Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T 1-3x14
2, IOR Valdada 1.1-4x26 Tactical
3, Trijicon Tri-Power Reflex Sight
4, one of the other Trijicon Reflex II sights

First two are variable, and last two straight 1x
Not sure I've been good enough this year for one of each so I got to narrow it down to one.
I like the idea of the Tri-power but like the option of more magnification.

Hard to go wrong with the Leupold, but I've a few good things about the IOR

I didn't forget the ELCAN I just figured if I went that much I'd just get another ACOG...


----------



## pappy (27 Nov 2004)

opps ment to attacth this....


----------



## Spr.Earl (28 Nov 2004)

Pappy I like Iron site's 
I'll say no more.


----------



## Yeoman (28 Nov 2004)

personally; I've always enjoyed using the EOtech holosights. I've never actually used one on a real rifle (I've only used them in airsoft), but they're easy to aim with, I've never gotten tunnel vision with it either.
Greg


----------



## pappy (28 Nov 2004)

Well being a foirmer marine I have to say I love iron sights too.  But I love my ACOG too, I'm leaning hard to purchase another ACOG, maybe one of the compact versions.
The fact that ACOGs use no batteries is my main factor for enjoying them, beside the excellant optics.

I've looked at the EOTech and others like them and they just seem well fragile, and are they waterright?  and Did I mention bateries?  EOTech does make a nice one, some ot the clones well look way to cheap and blurry....

Dotcer makes on that is very interesting, very small size, well not in the price department, SRP of something like $690 USD

Leupold is nice, but.... for the price I'd might as well go with an ACOG.

Damn decisions decisions.....


----------



## Lance Wiebe (28 Nov 2004)

Leopolds are indeed nice, I own one.  But is that right?  A 1-3x14?

I would stay away from any optic that has an objective of 14.  Much to narrow a field of view, I would think.  Mine is a straight 4x26, I wouldn't want any more restriction than that.

Also, I'm with you on the battery thing........


----------



## pappy (28 Nov 2004)

yes the Leupold CB/T is 1-4x14  sort of a small objective.  I've sort of removed this from my "short list" for a couple of reasons, I looked at one recently and it's didn't really thrill me like a $700 USD scope should.  It does have some interesting features, but not enough to keep in it the running.

I'd like to get another ACOG, but tight now they are extremely hard to find for a decent price.  I may have to wait for one more of these.  Factory production wait times are like 6 months. sucks....

I'm looking at a Trijicon Reflex, I can use this on a couple of AR-15 rifles I have as well as a M1A (M14),  I don't really have a Dot type sight yet, I do have one ACOG and some other long range glass peices, so I'm thinking fill a void first before duplacation.


----------



## KevinB (30 Nov 2004)

Pappy - A TA31 ACOG right (I'd hate if you had a TA01 or TA01NSN - they are pretty much range sights due to the lack of CQB ability)

 Given you have an ACOG - I'd look to the AImpoint M2 or EOTECH 552 - I've used both overseas and they are both excellent CCO systems.

If you want a variable the Nightforce 1-4 or S&B 1.1-4 ShortDot are good options - I heard from some CAG boys in Iraq using them and they were very happy with both.
Given your USMC background maybe the USOptics SN-4 or SN-12 (seems like a lot of former Marines like them - maybe because you can use the scope as a hammer too with no ill effects   )


----------



## Spr.Earl (30 Nov 2004)

Pappy and Kevin.
just one question.
When shooting on a civie range, how do you rest?
Do you use a sand bag etc.?

Reason I ask is this past wek end for qual. I just dug my arm's along with my weapon in the ground (prone) 200 m and after not being on the range for 2yrs, with our scope with out any adgustment and just correcting my aim I got  4"" grouping.


----------



## Bartok5 (1 Dec 2004)

> I just dug my arm's along with my weapon in the ground (prone) 200 m and after not being on the range for 2yrs, with our scope with out any adgustment and just correcting my aim I got  4"" grouping.



Earl,

And you're proud of that?!?!  Just kidding!


----------



## pappy (1 Dec 2004)

Well sad to say my old ACOG is indeed a TA01, just the standard range finding (out to 800 meters) full tritium lit reticle style.  I purchased this scope back in the early 1990's new for around $450 USD, they had always been tough to find. Back then they had that version and the NSN with the attached iron sights, that was it for choices back then, at least that's all I remember back then.  It wasn't until later they had the BAC / fiber optic versions.  Don't take this as finial facts, I my be wrong.

I'd love to get a newer version with the fiber optic illumination along with the tritium.  I will accpect donations if you all feel I'm suffering too much with my TA01.   ;D

I've never had a problem shooting up close with it, but yes it's not as good as the newer versions.  But since ACOGs have jumpped in price to almost double the price I paid I'll suffer for now, I might just get another ACOG of a different flavor.  My ACOG serial number is in the first 1600.  I'm thinking they've changed the serial numbering system since I looked at a new one the other day that was up in the 600,000 range.  I might have been wrong, it just as easyier been in the 60,000 range, I looked at the retical (non-tritium version, non fiber-optic version, wried...) just for a second and didn't like that version so I gave it back to the shop owner.  Plus his price was retail or over....

As far as shooting positions, if I'm sigthing a rifle in I'll use a bench and sand bags, or if it's raining like mad the bench will do too.  But I'll do some position shooting too when I can, off-hand, kneeling, sitting, prone.  For prone I sometimes like to use a pack / vest I've got set up for hunting/etc.  and dump that on the ground and use that for a rest, old habbit.  

I'll also head out to the woods and do al sorts of shooting at unknow distances at clear cuts etc.  Blessed with lots of areas like that around here.


----------



## pappy (1 Dec 2004)

oh yeah.... forgot my new Trijicon Relex RX09 is on it's way, or should I say on backorder.  For some reason there is quite a demand out there  ;D

I don't have a scope that fits this class, dot type.  So I figured this would be a good option to fill that need.  I like the concept of these versions, Tritium, fiber optic light garthing and cyalume mini light sticks.  Got a Killflash for it too, I like these Killflash products, handy as can be. Not only do they stop most reflections they also act as sunshades with out cutting firld of view.  I use one on my ACOG and other scopes.
I highly recommend these for anyone that has the target shooting back.

I will continue to look for a nice 1-4 or 1.5 to 6 power scope and pick one up when one tickles my fancy.  Maybe even another ACOG, as these are 6 months or so on backorder I can wait later.  I friend of mine had a compact ACOG and it was styling for a 2x. 

Needless to say I own a few nice peices of glass for a varity of weapons. Fixed 10x40 3mm tube B&L Tactical Mil-dot (B&L made these for a while as a goverment bid item equal to Leupold Mark IV's).  This scope garthers more light in dim light then most 50 or 56mm objective scopes.  Quality of glass is more important then objective size, the reason some scopes use 56mm sizes is to garther the light though poorier quality lenes.  The B&L has 144 moa 1/4" clicks (windage and elevation) more then anything I've seen nice for long ranges.  the 40mm objective makes it simple to keep lower to the bore.  The 30mm tube gives a wonderfull feild of view.  I almost hate to consider any 1" tube glass anymore.  Talk about a scope you can hammer nails with.   This rests on my M1A Super Match most of the time (civilian M14).  Serious shooter, 5 shot rapid fire shots in less then 4" at 450m with iron sights....  walnut and steel can it get any better?  lol  Although I had my gunsmith rebed it into a kevlar/fiberglass stock for field use.

Next is a 3.5-10x40mm 30mm tube Leupold LR Tactical that on my Rem700 LTR, super peice of glass.  Premier Mil-dot with the poor mans illumination (shine a flashlight into the eyepeice for a few minutes and the reticle glows enough in low light / dark for well aimed shots, nothing fancy but it will last about a hour/shine)  Newer ones are lit with batteries.....  This combo shoots like a wetdream...  Part of what makes it shoot so well is the ring/mount....  botton rings are welded to a one peice base that mates down into the Rem700 receiver... (not just sits on top of the receiver, but mates down into receiver)  Next best thing since clip-slot mounts.  if you want to know where to get this style mount let me know I'll give you the name off-thread.  I don't want to advertise....  Rock solid mount and rings with 20moa built in, rings are trued into the base.

ACOG as you all know, right now on my Match grade AR16.... 

And soon to be Reflex II on my new M4A3 (Civilian version Bushmaster)

The ACOG, B&L and Reflex are all on QD mounts and can interchange from rifle to rifle.  The ACOG recticle matches the 7.62mm enough out to 600 yards to make it useable.  5.56mm and 7.62 shoot very close drop wise, and since it's only a 4x it's acceptabe and easy enough to use on the M1A.  The Reflex II will be nice on the M1A too.  A little bit of flexibility with the optics...

time for a trip to the range....


----------



## KevinB (1 Dec 2004)

Pappy,

 I found that mounting a Dr Optik mini red dot is an effective way to add CQB ability to the TA01 and TA01NSN sights.

I had bad luck with the Triji  RX scopes as the amber reticle washes out in most lighting situations, IMHO they should make them with a red reticle.  The polymer cover on the Tri-Power has cause many problems and I would stay away from them.  IMHO while Triji is the heat with the compact and full sized series BAC ACOG's they missed the boat in a CCO -- IMHO the USMC and USSOC purchasing of the TA31 series is what is bad ordering the RX's - they were removed some the SOPMOD kits a few years ago.

If you want give Grant at GandR Tactical an email www.gandrtactical.com he has some ACOG's in stock.

I had a killflash on my ACOG but the attachment system was mickeymouse and it got torn off and is the bush somehwere in Wainwright.


I had a B&L 10X Tactical on my bolt gun - surperb scope - I just decided that I wanted a variable and 1 MAO clicks (I was one rev out once during a match and nailed the hostage tgt  :-[ ) and the Premier Reticles 2nd gen Mildot is the cats ass.

Cheers
Kevin


----------



## pappy (1 Dec 2004)

Kevin B,
I thought / heard about the washout too, that's why I decided to get the version that will take the mini glow sticks to give it added punch when needed.

ACOG Killflash -  yeah that big rubber band, I agree although I haven't had a problem yet.  But I thought the good old black Zip tie would hold it good and tight.  But I'd like to see Trijicon thread the objective area for a screw in version.  

Reflex - I do believe they do make some with Red dots or chevorns.

Premimer - they Rock, besides he's a former Marine.... I haven't seen one of thier lit-gen II models yet...  I'm waiting to see what they might do with the new Leupold MR/T line (new lower power smaller Mid-range tactical scope line)


----------



## pappy (1 Dec 2004)

opps red colored version of the reflex is the one made by Meprolight (IDF version of the Trijicon).  They make a dandy M203 sight too...  and sort of a covered gen II type Reflex.

http://www.meprolight.com/products.asp?id=5
http://www.scopetica.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=161

http://www.meprolight.com/products.asp?id=6

http://www.meprolight.com/products.asp?id=8


----------



## KevinB (2 Dec 2004)

Meprolights SUCK.

 I know two LE untis that tried them and they dirtched them quick (one went EOTECH and the other Aimpoint.)


----------

