# Indigo Trillium



## Sig_Des (31 May 2005)

Just wondering what everyone thought about the 70 Comm Group Gun Camp that just happened this last weekend here in Ottawa?

Organization, set-up, teams...

I personally enjoyed the C7 range and having to knock down metal plates before I could start putting rounds in the Figure 11.

I also thought that the Obstacle course was done well to provide something of a challenge.

Any comments?

Go Team Discovery Channel!!


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## PteCamp (31 May 2005)

Yeah, I was kinda worried it was going to be really shitty, but it was pretty good, I had a good time.
I thought it was a good challenge but not a bag drive.
The best part was the mess on Saturday night  

-KaT

RUFF RYDERS RULE!!!


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## Sig_Des (31 May 2005)

The Mess on Saturday night was GREAT...the booze was flowing and good times abounded.

Some pictures from the Ex to be found at :

http://groups.msn.com/763OttawaCommunicationRegiment/exindigotrillium.msnw

I was disapointed that they cancelled the Rapel tower. I also think it shouldn't be called a Gun camp if your not going to be firing more weapons than just the C7


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## PteCamp (31 May 2005)

Well it used to really be GUN CAMP
Last October we did everything, C6, C9, 9mm, Rocket Launcher (uhh Can't remember what its actual name is) and the obstacle course. We had a great time. The one last May we did Rapelling, Grenades, C6, Obstacle Course.

The Saturday night BBQ and Mess is always the best part, ang getting to see people you haven't seen in a long time.

Thanks for the link.

-KaT


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## JimmyPeeOn (23 Jul 2005)

Ugh...how about Carl Gustav 84mm?  I wasntthere, but thats what I would assume you were firing.  Did you not do drills on it before you fired?  Maybe have a class or 2 on the characteristics?


Cheers,
Andrew


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## Pte. Bloggins (23 Jul 2005)

Nah, the Comm Res couldn't pull of the Carl G lol, we did the M72 that October, but with inserts, not real rounds. 
And yes, we had a refresher class before each weapon we fired. Kat just has a bad memory.


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## PteCamp (24 Jul 2005)

Hey!
Leave my shitty memory alone!! It doesn't deserve to be made fun of like this!!

-KaT


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## JimmyPeeOn (24 Jul 2005)

Well buds,  If you cant even remember the name of the weapons system youre firing, it leads me to believe you cant remember more important things.  Such as weapons drills, effective range and back blast area.  You might wanna get yourself in check and start paying some attention. 

Cheers, i think.
Andrew


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## PteCamp (27 Jul 2005)

Yeah well, sorry that was 2 years ago, I didn't think it was really the important anymore...it was just for fun, not really a big deal.
I have my shit in check thanks. 

-KaT


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## Radop (23 Aug 2005)

PteKec said:
			
		

> Yeah well, sorry that was 2 years ago, I didn't think it was really the important anymore...it was just for fun, not really a big deal.
> I have my crap in check thanks.
> 
> -KaT



Really, I haven't touched a .50 Cal Browning Machinegun in 12 yrs but I still know it fires at 600 rnds per min and can be put into single shot fire mode.  Max tracer burn is approx 1800 m but wpn effective out to 2500 m (could fire a lot further but not effectively).

I have worked with your unit before, they need some trg at least to fit in better with the regs.  You are a soldier first and fore most as if you cannot defend yourself and your equipment then you are useless.  That includes knowing what your equipment is capable of whether it be a C7 or a 522.  The important stuff is what we can effectively use.  You should take a famil shoot and treat it like an opertunity to learn.

I find your performance unacceptable for the following reasons..........


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## JimmyPeeOn (25 Aug 2005)

PteKec said:
			
		

> ...it was just for fun, not really a big deal.
> -KaT


 ???  If you ever get a chance to take a look into an operational RRB, you will notice all thoose "Green tube thingies" that you dont remember how to use. Along with a menagerie of other weapons. But thats not imprtant,  after all its just for fun.  Right? You don't train for fun, you train to kill people. You need to know how and with what



			
				PteKec said:
			
		

> I have my crap in check thanks.
> 
> -KaT


 : Sure ya do.


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## PteCamp (26 Aug 2005)

Screw you guys, because I couldn't remember the name of a weapon I've fired once but never even been formally trained on I'm a shitty soldier...You've never worked with my so you don't know anything about me, my training or skill levels, so I could honestly care less what you two think.

-KaT


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## canadianblue (26 Aug 2005)

Now for some reason I think the type of attitude you just displayed their, would get my ass chewed out on my training in St Jean and Kingston if I had the same mindset...

I doubt it's a good idea too tell two experienced member to "screw" off....


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## JimmyPeeOn (27 Aug 2005)

SigKec said:
			
		

> Screw you guys, I could honestly care less what you two think.
> -KaT


 :'(


			
				SigKec said:
			
		

> because I couldn't remember the name of a weapon I've fired once but never even been formally trained on I'm a shitty soldier
> -KaT


Since when are we able to fire weapons we havent passed TOET's on?  Anyone please feel free to help me out on this, cause I've never seen it.



			
				SigKec said:
			
		

> you've never worked with my so you don't know anything about me, my training or skill levels, so I could honestly care less what you two think.
> -KaT


Wow.  Defensive much?  I don't need to work with you to know what you're like after a display like that.

Cheers, and calm down.
Andrew


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## MC (27 Aug 2005)

heh, sure, let's all line up and give this guy some shit one after the other! 

come on guys..


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## PteCamp (27 Aug 2005)

Why shouldn't I be defensive? You're the ones ganging up on me saying I'm a shitty soldier.
When you work with me, then I'll let you form an opinion about me, tell then lay off.

-KaT


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## 48Highlander (27 Aug 2005)

SigKec said:
			
		

> Why shouldn't I be defensive? You're the ones ganging up on me saying I'm a shitty soldier.
> When you work with me, then I'll let you form an opinion about me, tell then lay off.
> 
> -KaT



You need to turn in your e-tool before you hit magma.   First you start off saying you don't remember the name of a weapon you fired.   Ok, unusual, and a little worrying to us infantry folks, but it happens I guess.

THEN, when it's suggested that you need to pay closer attention to detail, you say that the shoot was "just for fun"   
While also claiming to have your shit sorted out   :blotto:

Right.

And then when 2 senior members with loads of experience tell you (correctly) that we dont shoot "for fun" - that we train to kill, and we ALL need to be trained - you tell them to screw off?   And start going on about your skills?

I'd say you need a serious attitude readjustment, as well as a rethink as to wether or not you want to be wearing that green thing.   You know, the shirt and the pants that I never got any formal training on so I can't remember the proper name for them....

edited for spelling


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## 48Highlander (27 Aug 2005)

Radop said:
			
		

> Really, I haven't touched a .50 Cal Browning Machinegun in 12 yrs but I still know it fires at 600 rnds per min and can be put into single shot fire mode.



Not to be picky, but isn't it 450 rounds?   600 is much too fast for the rate of fire I remember.


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## JimmyPeeOn (27 Aug 2005)

48Highlander said:
			
		

> You need to turn in your e-tool before you hit magma.  First you start off saying you don't remember the name of a weapon you fired.  Ok, unusual, and a little worrying to us infantry folks, but it happens I guess.
> 
> THEN, when it's suggested that you need to pay closer attention to detail, you say that the shoot was "just for fun"
> While also claiming to have your crap sorted out  :blotto:
> ...


We may disagree on the 522 thread, bet it would appear were on the same team here!!!
Cheers;
Andrew


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## Bintheredunthat (17 Sep 2005)

It seems to me that a lot of the senior people (still trying to figure out who the "2 senior members with loads of experience" are) are really jumping on people for the wrong thing.  I'm quite sure you've had a brain fart once in a while when you go to post something on here - and I'm sure you googled or researched what you were trying to say before making a little mistake - heaven forbid.  If I got a nickel for every time someone called the RT-5121 a 522, I'd probably have a roll of nickels...........this week.  People make mistakes, forget words, whatever.  I would have looked it up too before posting.  So what.  Seems to always be one in the bunch who's whole personality is being right or knowing more than the other guy.  Whatever flies your plane.

First off, things work differently in different places.  Sure you may believe that because you did gun camp in Petawawa or wherever, that you were training to kill.  Well the Reserves aren't always "training to kill".  Reserves are in some cases high school, university, or college kids that are merely there to earn a buck.  Don't think for a minute that just because they are referred to as a Reserve Force, that they are standing in line to replace you.  Not always the case.  Same way not every Reg Force guy is there to serve the country.  Some are there for job security, steady pay, and the promise of a pension.  Some really don't even know why they are there.  I think this has to do with many things, here's a couple.

First off, those in the leadership role have a very limited time to use to educate and properly train these young guys.  Exercises, courses, and even simple lesson plans are often chopped, sliced, and diced for content in order to meet very small time frames.  It's nothing for a MCpl to hear, "Ok I just want to be able to get those guys out there as quick as possible so skip this this and this."  Those of you that think you can make a stand and be the driving force to make things right, are sadly mistaken.  

Secondly, prep time before said training is often at a minimum.  "Hi.  I'm in the Reg Force and we have weeks to prep for exercise or any training."  Guess what, the Reserve's week consists of an evening and sometimes a weekend.  So when the unit CO decides it's parade time and there's admin to take care of, I guess that leaves you with about enough time to load up the trucks and give a blast of words that at one time might have been a warning order.

I've worked with the Reg and Res force, so I have some experience on both sides of the fence.  And I realize that a lot more people on here are in the same boat.  I've been at Gun Camp during the week, and on the weekend.  When the "leaders" don't take it seriously, the followers will always do the same.  I've heard the term "Fun shoot" more than I've heard, "Ok troops - today we're going to train to kill the enemy".  Yeah yeah - "Get Sum!" and all that jazz.

Perhaps the finger should be pointed towards those with the heavier slip ons.  I think sometimes the added weight makes them fall flat on their face.

You're only as good as your training and your trainers.  And if some young guys forget the name of the M72 that they've fired once, so what.  Hopefully if he's ever doing 6 months worth of work up training to deploy overseas, then he'll remember what to call it.

Bin


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## willy (17 Sep 2005)

This thread makes me angry.  On the one hand, I agree with Bintheredunthat on the basis that a mistake of terminology is not neccessarily the biggest deal in the world.  Lots of people say dumb things that they haven't thought through properly on a daily basis.  I'm one of them.  On the other hand, (and more importantly) the idea that reservists are "merely there to earn a buck" is a cancer that has steadily eaten away at our credibility as soldiers over the course of the past few years.  I am a reservist myself, and I tell you this: if you are only in the reserves to make a buck, then you should be ashamed of yourself.  We don't need you.  Release immediately.

As my slipons have become heavier over the years, I have done my best to ensure that all my soldiers take their jobs seriously.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with having fun while training, so long as it is accepted that fun is not the aim of training.  Misguided though Bintheredunthat seems to think I may be, I attempt to instill that idea in all of my troops on an everyday basis, and I'm willing to bet good money that any soldier I've ever trained would agree that that is a fair statement.  While the multitude of shitty leaders we currently have in the Comm Reserve bear a heavy share of the burden of blame for the currently poor standard of attitude, deportment, and competence that our members have attained, the above described "out to make a buck" mindset is also important in that regard.  The way promotions are currently working in this organization, it is the shitty soldier of today who becomes the shitty MCpl of next year, so I don't think that it is unreasonable to demand professionalism, dedication, and technical and tactical competence right from the get go.  

To summarize, I say this: this isn't the parade square, and if someone types out a half baked post then it isn't the worst thing in the world, and perhaps they should be cut some slack.  After all, the internet isn't really the home of the well thought out idea.  On the other hand, to those who become indignant after having been corrected on a legitimate point: perhaps you should consider the fact that professional soldiers, both Reg and Reserve, get angry when they see evidence that people who wear the same uniform as they do just don't get it.


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## Bintheredunthat (18 Sep 2005)

Willy - I agree with your statement above - 99 percent of it.  The one part I don't agree with is that if we could have every person who shows up to sign the paysheet and "turn it off" take a release - then the Reserves would quite probably be cut in half.  Ok - that's personal experience.  May not be the same for your unit - but it does seem to spread like wildfire.  And it's the role of the leaders to extinguish it.

I've been at recruiting events where students and other young people are targetted as potential candidates.  And I've seen the "wrong approach" taken to recruiting on several occasions.  Sometimes even recruiters are doing their best to get people in the door by saying stupid crap.  "Oh yeah you can work whenever you want to" or "We get paid to show up and sit around in the back of a truck."  I think unit CO's should send young spys into recruiting events to hear just what some of these Class A/B Ptes,Cpls, and MCpls are really selling.  This whole tuition reimbursement thing really drives me crazy because you get to see just how many people are showing up as little as possible to get their big cheque at the end of the year.  Pisses me off - BIG TIME.

I've read a few other posts discussing things like this R291 trade about to come in - and I personally think that the Reserves need a complete overhaul before any new stuff is introduced.  I agree with the idea of being able to support operations using Reserves to augment the Reg Force, but not if they can't do the same damn job.  And being able to do the same job will result from equal training.  How is it that someone is supposed to do their Basic one summer, QL3A next, then QL3B, and a QL5 course.  And of course we need a PLQ for those moving to to become MCpls - so just how many summers are we talking about in order to get a detachment commander here?  That's right - 5 by my count.  That's a lot of courses for someone straight out of high school.  Will it work - I don't personally think so.  I think the R291 trade will probably resort to slapping on some of those "acting lacking" ranks in order to avoid a trade full of Cpls.  I'm sure some people will want to give up 5 summers in a row - I wouldn't.  Reserves like to do those 3 summers in a row right now - usually take a year off (easy summer tasking) to chill out and find themselves, then MAYBE they'll decide to go the leadership route and carry on for another year or two.  But what is the life expectancy of a Reservist nowadays?  That I would LOVE to know.

I believe in setting the right example for the young troops, and training them properly.  But sometimes you just have to work with what you've got.  Maybe you'll have more next weekend - depending on who has homework to do.

Bin


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