# RMC or NCM?



## Stauds (27 Oct 2005)

First of all, this is my first post, and so far I am glad I found such an interesting and informative forum. 

I am a 17 year old student at the University of Alberta. I am in Honor's Physics, and I am bored of my program... Last year I applied at RMC, and I was turned down, mainly because I failed to meet the requirments... I fell short of almost everything except the aptitude test, which I did very well on. That was then... Now, my grade 12 average finished above 80, I am extremely fit, thanks to working out for the past year. I completed french 30 with an 87%, I am in kickboxing, helping my old air cadet squadron with volunteering, and planning their Ontario trip, and I will soon be getting a part time job. I was in air cadets for 3 years, and I did very well, achieving top level 4 cadet last spring. Anyways, I am getting bored of my program, and I am thinking it isn't what I want to do (be a physicist). I am going to follow my old goal of pursuing a career in the CF, and I am trying to decide between going for JTF2 by joining the infantry, or possibly becoming an Intelligence Officer, firstly by taking Military and Strategic Studies at RMC. No matter what I decide, I will be finishing my first year at the U of A, and I will have a GPA of at least 3.0. 

I have a couple questions:

Is it realistic for me to try and become an Intelligence Officer? Do I have a chance of getting into RMC, and completing the required "prerequisites" to become an Intelligence Officer? I've talked to recruiters, and spent hours reading the DND/recruiting webpage... but I want to hear from people who's job isn't to make people like me try to "be all I can be". Do I have a chance at that? Because if not, I would like to pursue a different goal.

If I choose not to go to RMC (or get turned down again), I plan on joining the infantry and going into the JTF2. I've found out about it as much as a civilian could, possibly even more, since I have talked to many people in the CF, and I was a cadet. Is this a realistic goal? Can someone join the army with such a goal in mind, and succeed? Or is it something like the NHL, where 1 in a million people wishing for it get in? 

Thanks for your help, and any opinion on this will be appreciated. 

ps. I have talked to many recruitors... and I am kinda looking for an answer that I haven't heard a hundred times already...


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## FSGT Lampkin (28 Oct 2005)

Graduating RMC at 20 something and being given command over people up to twice (or more) your age compared to coming straight in as a recruit is a totally different planet.....you should really decide what your in for...leading or following (either way you'll do a bit of both)....

As for your intellegance officer question, as far as i know you have to be in the military first before you can apply (ask kincanuk he can clarify if im wrong)...The only people ive met at RMC who are going Intel are UTPNCM cadets (NCMS transfered to officer) but im not 100% sure. 

JTF2? you have to have a letter of recommendation from your CO at your base unit to even have a chance of being put on course....ive actually seen them (course recruits i think) doing ruck marchs on the edge of campus and up to and around Fort Henry but your not going to get much info on it unless your selected. 

Saying "Im joining the CF to join JTF2" is a nice dream but its like becoming a pilot to fly f-18s.....its feasable....but many more factors to consider than you (or i) realize right now

In all honesty i think you need to narrow your focus a bit... if you really want to come to RMC you have to specifically ask for that only cause most ppl already at Civi U get put on ROTP and just stay there (do training in summer)....,if you want to blow stuff up for a living then maybe infantry is the place for you..... Worry about getting in (off or ncm) before you start specifying exactly what your gonna do

Lampkin


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## kincanucks (28 Oct 2005)

Intelligence Officer is open for ROTP Senior applicants and FSGT Lampkin is exactly right, figure out what occupation you want and then decide if officer or NCM is the applicable route.   Remember that there is no guarantee that you will be given any transfer credits for your first year and you may well be starting at year one in RMC.  Good Luck.


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## Stauds (28 Oct 2005)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Intelligence Officer is open for ROTP Senior applicants and FSGT Lampkin is exactly right, figure out what occupation you want and then decide if officer or NCM is the applicable route.     Remember that there is no guarantee that you will be given any transfer credits for your first year and you may well be starting at year one in RMC.   Good Luck.



I have no problem with starting RMC at year one, as the program I am in and the one I may try to get in are completely different. As for figuring out what occupaion I want... I am thinking JTF2 or Intelligence Officer. I am willing to do whatever it takes to get there.. A BIG part of me wants to just join the infantry and work my way up from there. My time at university so far basically has allowed me to realize I do not want to do much in the way of school work. It's easy, and I don't mind it, but I would definitely rather spend my time firing a rifle, doing drills, and polishing my boots than I would with my nose in a textbook. It's a hard decision for me to make, because I spent most of my life with the attitude that I would go to university and become a "famous" person. I've grown up from that, and I am looking at a more practical, enjoyable career. Right now, I am leaning more towards throwing my dreams to the wind and joining the infantry, to see what I can make of it. 

FSGT Lampkin. Thank you for your reply, that was what I was looking for. So, if I managed to do very well at everything, become insanely fit, and impress the right people, it is possible to get into the JTF2? I know exactly what you mean about joining the AF to become an F-18 pilot, that was one of my goals... ;D As long as there is a way I can get into JTF2, that's all I need. It's a really hard choice for me right now... but I think I want to just join the infantry.  One question, if I do that, will I have a good chance at promotions (both rank and position) if I do extremely well? 

One more... Should I finish my first year of University, or go ahead and join the infantry, if that's what I decide to do? No matter what I will be finishing my first term..


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## 23007 (28 Oct 2005)

Based on your last post it seems to me that the best option for you is infantry. Take it from someone whos been to RMC, if you don`t like having your nose in the books, DON`T go to RMC. Thats all you do there cause you do so many more classes at RMC than you do at regular university. By the time you finish RMC you have your degree plus many other courses from many other programs...you can almost graduate from there with two majors and two minors if you wanted to.


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## Stauds (28 Oct 2005)

23007, thanks for your reply. Since you have been to RMC, do you think it would be a good idea for me to finish my first year? Or get into the infantry asap?


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## kincanucks (28 Oct 2005)

_So I guess it is possible to become one right off the bat (unless I misunderstand what an ROTP Senior Applicant is._

Someone is not at Fort St Jean for their first year.


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## Burden (28 Oct 2005)

Just to let you know, there are only two spots open this year in ROTP for INT. Thats how many sopts were last year, thats how many there is this year and that will probably be how many there will be next year. Just a heads up to show you that it is a difficult to get in under ROTP for INT.


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## 23007 (29 Oct 2005)

Stauds said:
			
		

> 23007, thanks for your reply. Since you have been to RMC, do you think it would be a good idea for me to finish my first year? Or get into the infantry asap?



I would suggest finishing at least your first year. Some education is better than none and it would be eaiser for you to finish your degree later on if you have at least one year under your belt. Finish up the year and then think about it again. If you want to continue on with your education, go to RMC, if not, then join the NCM ranks.


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## 23353 (30 Oct 2005)

As transfer credits go, you WILL do first year again regardless of what program you do but might not have to do some courses. RMC is based on having 4 years to go through school and alot of tradition/partying revolves around it.

If you don't like having your nose in a book, MSS might not be for you either. While arts is considered easier, compared to Science/Engineering, the amount of straight 'booktime' in general is probably the same if not more. I'm taking a second year history class right now and have 10 sizable books to deal with for a 10 page paper. Plus officers deal with planning for the most part, either receiving, writing, or giving orders. Its alot of brainwork done on little sleep.

Anyway, being a private in the Infantry is alot simpler (no offence to any Infantry junior NCMs I am not knocking your job, lots of respect). It really depends on what you want.

I personally know one cadet currently with the Int MOC, but he did a Voluntary Occupational Reclassification (or whatever its called thesedays) to get it.


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## Stauds (30 Oct 2005)

I am still thinking of appying for RMC, and if that does not work, I will go into Infantry. I think I would have a better time doing MSS than I would doing Honors Physics (which I am in right now). In high school I enjoyed my social class, and I enjoy reading. If I went into Military and Strategic Studies, what careers would be a good choice for me?


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## Byerly (30 Oct 2005)

If you decide to become an NCM, start your application early.  It takes a while to go through, as many people can tell you.  You can start it before the year of universityu ends, and keep attending classes while youy wait for all the steps of the process to be completed.

Stu


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## Stauds (30 Oct 2005)

I currently have an application going through for the reserves. ... Yes it's taking a while, almost a year since I first applied... I just have to get my knees checked out by the specialist... I have an appointment in about 10 days, then I am changing my application to RMC. My friend applied for infantry early september, and leaves on the 12th.


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## 23007 (30 Oct 2005)

Stauds said:
			
		

> I am still thinking of appying for RMC, and if that does not work, I will go into Infantry. I think I would have a better time doing MSS than I would doing Honors Physics (which I am in right now). In high school I enjoyed my social class, and I enjoy reading. If I went into Military and Strategic Studies, what careers would be a good choice for me?



You can go into any career that doesn't require an engineering degree. I know guys with MSS degrees who are everything from Int to Infantry to Pilot so it really does not matter. However, the majority of the people who do go MSS end up going combat arms.


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## bbbb (16 Mar 2006)

My advice to you is finish your degree and apply as a DEO. RMC students go through, well you know. As a DEO you can bypass all that, well you know, and start as a 2Lt instead of going through 4 years as a Ocdt and doing little to no military training between summer courses.


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