# History Q



## army

Posted by *"Rob Ayres" <ayrzee_07@hotmail.com>* on *Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:01:03 -0500*
I went to Wal-Mart today to see a recruiting display. It was the 700 
Com. unit out of Borden putting it on. After I went into the store and 
the first thing I saw was a Vet. sitting at a desk with  a jar of money 
in front of him. He was raising money for the Juno beach centre in 
Normandy. After throwing whatever I could scrape up into the jar we got 
to talking first time I ever thanked a Vet. .......gave me a real twist 
inside and after listening to him talk I got to thinking about my uncle 
who also served, as this man did, in Italy and Holland.
Even when asked my Uncle never told me anything about the war until he 
was on his deathbed with cancer and even then not much. Out of respect 
for his lack of willingness to talk I never learned much about his 
involvement and because he dropped his chest full of war paraphernalia 
into the deepest part of Kempenfelt bay in the 50,s burying old ghosts 
I suppose the only thing I know is that he started with recruitment in 
Barrie GSF 35 bgd. From there went to train in Brantford as a radio 
operator. 15 platoon CIBCTCA and was then sent overseas.
As he is no longer with us I thought it would be ok for me to do a 
little digging and learn a bit about what happened and where he went.
Can anyone help me with the initials CIBCTCA no clue and how I might 
start tracking down the movements of 15 platoon out of Brantford?
Were they all radio operators who would have been split up to serve in 
other units once overseas?
I don‘t mean to disrespect his wish for secrecy but I have really been 
getting into military history lately and this man was close to me.
Any assistance will be appreciated greatly.
Thanks,
RobA
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joan O. Arc
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 12:47 PM
  Subject: Re: A Soldier
  Thanks. Next time I‘m in an airport... :
  - Joan
  ----Original Message Follows----
  From: "Donald Schepens" 
  Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  To: 
  Subject: Re: A Soldier
  Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:43:05 -0700
  I found it in an airport bookstore Coles about 2 weeks ago.
  Don
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joan O. Arc 
  To: 
  Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:53 PM
  Subject: Re: A Soldier
   > Don,
   >
   > It sounds great! A book that maybe even *I* could get into reading
  Thereby
   > cutting back on some of my dumb questions!. Is it still in print 
and/or
   > easy to get? Amazon.com or Chapters, perhaps?
   >
   > - Joan
   >
   >
   > ----Original Message Follows----
   > From: "Donald Schepens" 
   > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
   > To: 
   > Subject: A Soldier
   > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:59:36 -0700
   >
   > A Soldier
   >
   > I was that which others did not want to be
   > I went where others failed to go
   > And did what others failed to do.
   >
   > I asked nothing from those who offered nothing
   > And reluctantly accepted the burden of loneliness.
   >
   > I have seen the face of terror felt the stinging cold of fear
   > And enjoyed the sweet tase of a moment‘s love.
   >
   > I have cried, felt pain and sorrow
   > But most of all...
   > I have lived times that others would say were best forgotten
   > After it all, I will be able to say that
   > I am proud of who I am...
   > A soldier.
   >
   > Anonymous
   >
   >
   > Sorry for quoting the old poem.  It was in the preface to an 
excellent
  book
   > that I am reading edited by Donald Graves, titled:
   >
   > Fighting for Canada Seven Battles, 1758-1945
   >
   > I can‘t recommend the book enough.  It is excellent.  the battles 
are not
   > all won by Canadians, but I believe that it shows "real" as opposed 
to
   > "Pierre Burton" history.
   >
   > Don
   >
   > 
_________________________________________________________________________
   > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
   >
   > --------------------------------------------------------
   > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
   > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
   > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
   > message body.
   >
  --------------------------------------------------------
  NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
  to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
  remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
  message body.

_________________________________________________________________________
  Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
  --------------------------------------------------------
  NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
  to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
  remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
  message body.
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
I went to Wal-Mart today to see a 
recruiting
display. It was the 700 Com. unit out of Borden putting it on. After I 
went into
thestore and the first thing I saw was a Vet. sitting at a desk 
with
a jar of money in front of him. He was raising money for the Juno beach 
centre
in Normandy. After throwing whatever I could scrape up into the jar we 
got to
talking first time I ever thanked a Vet. .......gave me a real twist 
inside
and after listening to him talk I got to thinking about my uncle who 
also
served, as this man did, in Italy and Holland. 
Even when asked my Uncle never told me 
anything
about the war until he was on his deathbed with cancer and even then not 
much.
Out of respect for his lack of willingness to talk I never learned much 
about
his involvement and because he dropped his chest full of war 
paraphernalia into
the deepest part of Kempenfelt bay in the 50,s burying old ghosts I 
suppose
the only thing I know is that he started with recruitment in Barrie 
GampSF 35
bgd.From there went to train in Brantford as a radio operator. 15 
platoon
CIBCTCA and was then sent overseas. 
As he is no longer with us I thought it 
would be ok
for me to do a little digging and learn a bit about what happened and 
where he
went.
Can anyone help me with the initials CIBCTCA no 
clue and
how I might start tracking down the movements of 15 platoon out of
Brantford?
Were they all radio operators who would 
have been
split up to serve in other units once overseas?
I don‘t mean to disrespect his wish for secrecy 
but I have
really been getting into military history lately and this man was close 
to
me.
Any assistance will be appreciated 
greatly.
Thanks,
RobA
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Joan O.
  Arc 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 
12:47
  PM
  Subject: Re: A Soldier
  Thanks. Next time I‘m in an airport... :-
  Joan----Original Message Follows----From: "Donald 
Schepens"
  lta.schepens@home.comgtReply-
To: army-list@CdnArmy.caTo: 
ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagtSubj
ect:
  Re: A SoldierDate: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:43:05 -0700I found 
it in an
  airport bookstore Coles about 2 weeks ago.Don----- 
Original
  Message -----From: Joan O. Arc ltjoan_o_arc@hotmail.comgt
To:
  ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagtSent
:
  Friday, March 23, 2001 10:53 PMSubject: Re: A
  Soldiergt Don,gtgt It 
sounds
  great! A book that maybe even *I* could get into
  readingTherebygt cutting back on some of my dumb 
questions!.
  Is it still in print and/orgt easy to get? Amazon.com or 
Chapters,
  perhaps?gtgt -
  Joangtgtgt ----Original Message
  Follows----gt From: "Donald Schepens" lta.schepens@home.comgt
gt
  Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.cag
t To:
  ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagtnbs
pgt
  Subject: A Soldiergt Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:59:36
  -0700gtgt A 
Soldiergtgt I was
  that which others did not want to begt I went where others 
failed
  to gogt And did what others failed to
  do.gtgt I asked nothing from those who offered 
  nothinggt And reluctantly accepted the burden of
  loneliness.gtgt I have seen the face of 
terror felt
  the stinging cold of feargt And enjoyed the sweet tase of 
a
  moment‘s love.gtgt I have cried, felt pain and 
  sorrowgt But most of all...gt I have lived 
times that
  others would say were best forgottengt After it all, I 
will be
  able to say thatgt I am proud of who I am...gt 
A
  soldier.gtgt
  Anonymousgtgtgt Sorry for quoting 
the old
  poem. It was in the preface to an 
excellentbookgt that I
  am reading edited by Donald Graves, 
titled:gtgt
  Fighting for Canada Seven Battles, 
1758-1945gtgt I
  can‘t recommend the book enough. It is excellent. the 
battles are
  notgt all won by Canadians, but I believe that it shows 
"real" as
  opposed togt "Pierre Burton" 
history.gtgt
  Dongtgt

_________________________________________________________________________
gt
  Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.gt 
gt
  --------------------------------------------------------gt 
  NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a 
messagegt to
  majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from 
the
  account you wish togt remove, with the line "unsubscribe
  army-list" in thegt message

body.gt----------------------------------------------
----------NOTE:
  To remove yourself from this list, send a messageto majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the 
account
  you wish toremove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in 
themessage

body.____________________________________________________________
_____________Get
  Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.------ 
--------------------------------------------------NOTE:
  To remove yourself from this list, send a messageto majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the 
account
  you wish toremove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in 
themessage
  body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Sat, 24 Mar 2001 16:25:58 -0400*
--------------69C1137090DA0F17B2C054DD
Hi Rob!
Sorry, I can‘t help you but I wanted you to know that most vets are that
way.  My grandfather never talked about his WWI experiences.  My father
talked of his WWII experiences only the last few years.  I  am treasurer
of the ANAVETS unit here and most of our vets talk only about the good
times and, very rarely the bad.  I guess the memories are too painful to
talk over with someone who wasn‘t there and can‘t begin to comprehend
what it was like.  I bet the vet you talked with was delighted with your
interest and your gratitude.   I have noticed that each Remembrance Day
in our little town has more young people involved each year.   Of course
here in NB, Nov. 11th is a holiday and we have a big turnout at the
Cenotaph no matter what the weather.   The last 2 years, a teacher from
a local school, has delivered letters to our veterans at our banquet on
the 11th.   Our guys really appreciate it.  It‘s nice that you are
researching your uncle‘s service to his country.
Beth
Rob Ayres wrote:
> I went to Wal-Mart today to see a recruiting display. It was the 700
> Com. unit out of Borden putting it on. After I went into the store and
> the first thing I saw was a Vet. sitting at a desk with  a jar of
> money in front of him. He was raising money for the Juno beach centre
> in Normandy. After throwing whatever I could scrape up into the jar we
> got to talking first time I ever thanked a Vet. .......gave me a real
> twist inside and after listening to him talk I got to thinking about
> my uncle who also served, as this man did, in Italy and Holland.Even
> when asked my Uncle never told me anything about the war until he was
> on his deathbed with cancer and even then not much. Out of respect for
> his lack of willingness to talk I never learned much about his
> involvement and because he dropped his chest full of war paraphernalia
> into the deepest part of Kempenfelt bay in the 50,s burying old
> ghosts I suppose the only thing I know is that he started with
> recruitment in Barrie GSF 35 bgd. From there went to train in
> Brantford as a radio operator. 15 platoon CIBCTCA and was then sent
> overseas.As he is no longer with us I thought it would be ok for me to
> do a little digging and learn a bit about what happened and where he
> went.Can anyone help me with the initials CIBCTCA no clue and how I
> might start tracking down the movements of 15 platoon out of
> Brantford?Were they all radio operators who would have been split up
> to serve in other units once overseas?I don‘t mean to disrespect his
> wish for secrecy but I have really been getting into military history
> lately and this man was close to me.Any assistance will be appreciated
> greatly.Thanks,RobA
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Joan O. Arc
>      To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>      Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 12:47 PM
>      Subject: Re: A Soldier
>       Thanks. Next time I‘m in an airport... :
>
>      - Joan
>
>
>      ----Original Message Follows----
>      From: "Donald Schepens" 
>      Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>      To: 
>      Subject: Re: A Soldier
>      Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:43:05 -0700
>
>      I found it in an airport bookstore Coles about 2 weeks
>      ago.
>
>      Don
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Joan O. Arc 
>      To: 
>      Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:53 PM
>      Subject: Re: A Soldier
>
>
>       > Don,
>       >
>       > It sounds great! A book that maybe even *I* could get
>      into reading
>      Thereby
>       > cutting back on some of my dumb questions!. Is it still
>      in print and/or
>       > easy to get? Amazon.com or Chapters, perhaps?
>       >
>       > - Joan
>       >
>       >
>       > ----Original Message Follows----
>       > From: "Donald Schepens" 
>       > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>       > To: 
>       > Subject: A Soldier
>       > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:59:36 -0700
>       >
>       > A Soldier
>       >
>       > I was that which others did not want to be
>       > I went where others failed to go
>       > And did what others failed to do.
>       >
>       > I asked nothing from those who offered nothing
>       > And reluctantly accepted the burden of loneliness.
>       >
>       > I have seen the face of terror felt the stinging cold of
>      fear
>       > And enjoyed the sweet tase of a moment‘s love.
>       >
>       > I have cried, felt pain and sorrow
>       > But most of all...
>       > I have lived times that others would say were best
>      forgotten
>       > After it all, I will be able to say that
>       > I am proud of who I am...
>       > A soldier.
>       >
>       > Anonymous
>       >
>       >
>       > Sorry for quoting the old poem.  It was in the preface to
>      an excellent
>      book
>       > that I am reading edited by Donald Graves, titled:
>       >
>       > Fighting for Canada Seven Battles, 1758-1945
>       >
>       > I can‘t recommend the book enough.  It is excellent.  the
>      battles are not
>       > all won by Canadians, but I believe that it shows "real"
>      as opposed to
>       > "Pierre Burton" history.
>       >
>       > Don
>       >
>       >
>      _________________________________________________________________________
>
>       > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>       http://www.hotmail.com. 
>       >
>       > --------------------------------------------------------
>       > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>       > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>       > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>       > message body.
>       >
>
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>      NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>      to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>      remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>      message body.
>
>      _____________
>      ___________________________________________________________
>      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>       http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>      NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>      to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>      remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>      message body.
>
--------------69C1137090DA0F17B2C054DD
Hi Rob!
Sorry, I can‘t help you but I wanted you to know that most vets are
that way. My grandfather never talked about his WWI experiences.
My father talked of his WWII experiences only the last few years.
I am treasurer of the ANAVETS unit here and most of our vets talk
only about the good times and, very rarely the bad. I guess the memories
are too painful to talk over with someone who wasn‘t there and can‘t begin
to comprehend what it was like. I bet the vet you talked with was
delighted with your interest and your gratitude. I have noticed
that each Remembrance Day in our little town has more young people involved
each year. Of course here in NB, Nov. 11th is a holiday and
we have a big turnout at the Cenotaph no matter what the weather.
The last 2 years, a teacher from a local school, has delivered letters
to our veterans at our banquet on the 11th. Our guys really
appreciate it. It‘s nice that you are researching your uncle‘s service
to his country.
Beth
Rob Ayres wrote:
I
went to Wal-Mart today to see a recruiting display. It was the 700 Com.
unit out of Borden putting it on. After I went into the store and the first
thing I saw was a Vet. sitting at a desk with a jar of money in front
of him. He was raising money for the Juno beach centre in Normandy. After
throwing whatever I could scrape up into the jar we got to talking first
time I ever thanked a Vet. .......gave me a real twist inside and after
listening to him talk I got to thinking about my uncle who also served,
as this man did, in Italy and Holland.Even
when asked my Uncle never told me anything about the war until he was on
his deathbed with cancer and even then not much. Out of respect for his
lack of willingness to talk I never learned much about his involvement
and because he dropped his chest full of war paraphernalia into the deepest
part of Kempenfelt bay in the 50,s burying old ghosts I suppose the only
thing I know is that he started with recruitment in Barrie GampSF 35
bgd. From there went to train in Brantford as a radio operator. 15 platoon
CIBCTCA and was then sent overseas.As
he is no longer with us I thought it would be ok for me to do a little
digging and learn a bit about what happened and where he went.Can
anyone help me with the initials CIBCTCA no clue and how I might start
tracking down the movements of 15 platoon out of Brantford?Were
they all radio operators who would have been split up to serve in other
units once overseas?I don‘t mean to disrespect
his wish for secrecy but I have really been getting into military history
lately and this man was close to me.Any assistance
will be appreciated greatly.Thanks,RobA
----- Original Message -----
From:
Joan
O. Arc
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 12:47
PM
Subject: Re: A Soldier
Thanks. Next time I‘m in an airport... :
- Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Donald Schepens" lta.schepens@home.com>
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.ca>
Subject: Re: A Soldier
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:43:05 -0700
I found it in an airport bookstore Coles about 2 weeks ago.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Joan O. Arc ltjoan_o_arc@hotmail.com>
To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: A Soldier
> Don,
>
> It sounds great! A book that maybe even *I* could get into
reading
Thereby
> cutting back on some of my dumb questions!. Is it still in
print and/or
> easy to get? Amazon.com or Chapters, perhaps?
>
> - Joan
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Donald Schepens" lta.schepens@home.com>
> Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.ca>
> Subject: A Soldier
> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:59:36 -0700
>
> A Soldier
>
> I was that which others did not want to be
> I went where others failed to go
> And did what others failed to do.
>
> I asked nothing from those who offered nothing
> And reluctantly accepted the burden of loneliness.
>
> I have seen the face of terror felt the stinging cold of fear
> And enjoyed the sweet tase of a moment‘s love.
>
> I have cried, felt pain and sorrow
> But most of all...
> I have lived times that others would say were best forgotten
> After it all, I will be able to say that
> I am proud of who I am...
> A soldier.
>
> Anonymous
>
>
> Sorry for quoting the old poem. It was in the preface
to an excellent
book
> that I am reading edited by Donald Graves, titled:
>
> Fighting for Canada Seven Battles, 1758-1945
>
> I can‘t recommend the book enough. It is excellent.
the battles are not
> all won by Canadians, but I believe that it shows "real" as
opposed to
> "Pierre Burton" history.
>
> Don
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca
from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from
the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from
the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
--------------69C1137090DA0F17B2C054DD--
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:38:53 -0700*
I volunteer once a week with a vet who was in the Ortona battle. He 
joined my Regiment‘s old comrade association in 1990. He said he spent 
45 years trying to forget what he saw in Italy and NW Europe and the 
last ten years, with our Museum, trying to remember.
My father, in Normandy, was wounded. Just a minor shrapnel leg wound he 
always says now 86 and still healthy. An infantry platoon commander, 
he lasted about 10 days. Over the years I‘ve prodded him and he will 
talk endlessly about amthing else during the 6 years he was Active, but 
that 10 days I can only manage to get him to tell me a few incidents. I 
am sure it must still be mentally painful for him, because after 
recovering from minor wounds he had no desire to return and somehow 
found a job as the Adjutant of a rear echelon unit.
----- Original Message -----
  From: Beth MacFarlane
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 1:25 PM
  Subject: Re: History Q
  snip snip
  Most of our vets talk only about the good times and, very rarely the 
bad.  I guess the memories are too painful to talk over with someone who 
wasn‘t there and can‘t begin to comprehend what it was like      snip 
snip
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
I volunteer once a week with a vet who 
was in the
Ortona battle. He joined my Regiment‘s old comrade association in 1990. 
He said
he spent 45 years trying to forget what he saw in Italy and NW Europe 
and the
last ten years, with ourMuseum, trying to remember.
My father, in Normandy, was wounded. 
Just a minor
shrapnel leg woundhe always says now 86 and still healthy. An 
infantry
platoon commander, he lasted about 10 days. Over the years I‘ve prodded 
him and
he will talk endlessly about amthing else during the 6 yearshe was 
Active,
but that 10 days I can only manage to get him to tell me a few 
incidents. I am
sure it must still be mentally painful for him, because after recovering 
from
minor wounds he had no desire to return and somehow found a job as the 
Adjutant
of a rear echelon unit.
----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Beth
  MacFarlane 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 
1:25
  PM
  Subject: Re: History Q

  snip snipMost of our 
vets talk
  only about the good times and, very rarely the bad. I guess the 
memories
  are too painful to talk over with someone who wasn‘t there and can‘t 
begin to
  comprehend what it was like  snip
snip
--------------------------------------------------------
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message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Sun, 25 Mar 2001 00:34:20 -0500*
Today, we recognize Post-Traumatic Stress ...it is true, and the WWII 
and Korean vets know it, as do others that served in "active" theaters.  
of coure WWI survivors, too, but there are few alive today, tho‘ I 
admit any number of Board members knew more trhan one
I agree and support this Board in that we who have done some little 
time, and have some common relation points, can observe these points, 
and have some forum for discussion of these internal things...witness my 
objection to the mind games by non-participants...
I, too, have or had a number of uncles, my father, my grandfather, etc., 
as well as friends elder members of the Regiment who went throughh 
those horrors, and you state it well, Ian, of going though 45 years 
"trying to forget".  Some of them did not get that far, and some of them 
went to the puzzle palaces because they could not forget.  Have a number 
of friends who served in Bosnia, Kosovo etc that replicate this 
exactly...
And if being called a paranoid witch hunter is the price of the 
recognition, so be it.  I‘d sooner the Board/List contain itself to the 
ex-servers, the servers, and the would like to serve types.
John
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ian Edwards
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:38 PM
  Subject: Re: History Q
  I volunteer once a week with a vet who was in the Ortona battle. He 
joined my Regiment‘s old comrade association in 1990. He said he spent 
45 years trying to forget what he saw in Italy and NW Europe and the 
last ten years, with our Museum, trying to remember.
  My father, in Normandy, was wounded. Just a minor shrapnel leg wound 
he always says now 86 and still healthy. An infantry platoon 
commander, he lasted about 10 days. Over the years I‘ve prodded him and 
he will talk endlessly about amthing else during the 6 years he was 
Active, but that 10 days I can only manage to get him to tell me a few 
incidents. I am sure it must still be mentally painful for him, because 
after recovering from minor wounds he had no desire to return and 
somehow found a job as the Adjutant of a rear echelon unit.
  ----- Original Message -----
    From: Beth MacFarlane
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
    Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 1:25 PM
    Subject: Re: History Q
    snip snip
    Most of our vets talk only about the good times and, very rarely the 
bad.  I guess the memories are too painful to talk over with someone who 
wasn‘t there and can‘t begin to comprehend what it was like     snip 
snip
Today, we recognize Post-Traumatic 
Stress ...it is
true, and the WWII and Korean vets know it, as do others that served in 
"active"
theaters. of coure WWI survivors, too, but there are few alive 
today,
tho‘ I admit any number of Board members knew more trhan 
one
I agree and support this Board in that 
we who have
done some little time, and have some common relation points, can observe 
these
points, and have some forum for discussion of these internal 
things...witness my
objection to the mind games by non-participants...
I, too, have or had a number of uncles, 
my father,
my grandfather, etc., as well as friends elder members of the Regiment 
who
went throughh those horrors, and you state it well, Ian, of going though 
45
years "trying to forget". Some of them did not get that far, and 
some of
them went to the puzzle palaces because they could not forget. 
Have a
number of friends who served in Bosnia, Kosovo etc that replicate this
exactly...
And if being called a paranoid witch 
hunter is the
price of the recognition, so be it. I‘d sooner the Board/List 
contain
itself to the ex-servers, the servers, and the would like to serve
types.
John
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Ian 
Edwards

  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 
10:38
  PM
  Subject: Re: History Q

  I volunteer once a week with a vet 
who was in the
  Ortona battle. He joined my Regiment‘s old comrade association in 
1990. He
  said he spent 45 years trying to forget what he saw in Italy and NW 
Europe and
  the last ten years, with ourMuseum, trying to 
remember.

  My father, in Normandy, was wounded. 
Just a minor
  shrapnel leg woundhe always says now 86 and still healthy. An 
infantry
  platoon commander, he lasted about 10 days. Over the years I‘ve 
prodded him
  and he will talk endlessly about amthing else during the 6 
yearshe was
  Active, but that 10 days I can only manage to get him to tell me a few 
  incidents. I am sure it must still be mentally painful for him, 
because after
  recovering from minor wounds he had no desire to return and somehow 
found a
  job as the Adjutant of a rear echelon unit.

  ----- Original Message ----- 

    From:
    Beth
    MacFarlane 
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
    Sent: Saturday, March 24, 
2001 1:25
    PM
    Subject: Re: History Q

    snip snipMost of 
our vets talk
    only about the good times and, very rarely the bad. I guess 
the
    memories are too painful to talk over with someone who wasn‘t there 
and
    can‘t begin to comprehend what it was like 
snip
  snip
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## army

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Sun, 25 Mar 2001 06:13:50 -0000*
My husband‘s grandfather who, in serving with the Royal Nfld. Regiment in 
WWI, had his guts blown to bits, and only lived to father a batch of 
children, bury two wives, etc., thanks to a clever French doctor who, so the 
story goes, used silver - of all things! doesn‘t rust, doesn‘t corrode, and 
was, apparently, available - to reconstruct his stomach and upper 
intestine.
With him it was, by all accounts, much the same as what Ian describes: 
Voluble and contentious on all kinds of subjects, but about "the War" he 
said nothing - ever.
This is partly why, I suppose, I found the poem posted by Don so moving.
- Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: History Q
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:38:53 -0700
I volunteer once a week with a vet who was in the Ortona battle. He joined 
my Regiment‘s old comrade association in 1990. He said he spent 45 years 
trying to forget what he saw in Italy and NW Europe and the last ten years, 
with our Museum, trying to remember.
My father, in Normandy, was wounded. Just a minor shrapnel leg wound he 
always says now 86 and still healthy. An infantry platoon commander, he 
lasted about 10 days. Over the years I‘ve prodded him and he will talk 
endlessly about amthing else during the 6 years he was Active, but that 10 
days I can only manage to get him to tell me a few incidents. I am sure it 
must still be mentally painful for him, because after recovering from minor 
wounds he had no desire to return and somehow found a job as the Adjutant of 
a rear echelon unit.
----- Original Message -----
   From: Beth MacFarlane
   To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
   Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 1:25 PM
   Subject: Re: History Q
   snip snip
   Most of our vets talk only about the good times and, very rarely the bad. 
  I guess the memories are too painful to talk over with someone who wasn‘t 
there and can‘t begin to comprehend what it was like      snip snip
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
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## army

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Sun, 25 Mar 2001 06:30:04 -0000*
Re: Comment below.
Welcome to life in a free society, John.
- Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "John Gow" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: History Q
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 00:34:20 -0500
>
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
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## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:24:58 -0500*
Its a contest, okay?
Last post of the night, and Col Schepens can judge, because he was 
sitting beside me on the grass...
Why did the Brits dress their army of the 18th/19th century and some 
time before in a red uniform?
The answer is NOT "so the blood did not show"...but go ahead List....the 
Web marks the time of the correct response...
John
PS
Don, you‘ll back me up on this, from sitting in Battle Field Park...we 
drank those dark beers much later!
John
Its a contest, okay?
Last post of the night, and Col 
Schepens can judge,
because he was sitting beside me on the grass...
Why did the Brits dress their army of 
the 18th/19th
century and some time before in a red uniform?
The answer is NOT "so the blood did not 
show"...but
go ahead List....the Web marks the time of the correct 
response...
John
PS
Don, you‘ll back me up on this, from 
sitting in
Battle Field Park...we drank those dark beers much later!
John
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## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Tue, 27 Mar 2001 00:17:38 -0700*
John from Ian Edwards: I don‘t know the answer. But if forced to guess, 
perhaps it was to distinguish the English the scarlet predates the Act 
of Union from the French? Heck of a good question and I‘ll want to know 
your source once you reveal all.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: John Gow
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:24 PM
  Subject: History Q
  Its a contest, okay?

  Last post of the night, and Col Schepens can judge, because he was 
sitting beside me on the grass...

  Why did the Brits dress their army of the 18th/19th century and some 
time before in a red uniform?

  The answer is NOT "so the blood did not show"...but go ahead 
List....the Web marks the time of the correct response...

  John

  PS

  Don, you‘ll back me up on this, from sitting in Battle Field Park...we 
drank those dark beers much later!

  John
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
John from Ian Edwards: I don‘t know the 
answer. But
if forced to guess, perhaps it was to distinguish the English the 
scarlet
predates the Act of Union from the French? Heck of a good question and 
I‘ll
want to know your source once you reveal all.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  John Gow 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 
11:24
  PM
  Subject: History Q

  Its a contest, okay?

  Last post of the night, and Col 
Schepens can
  judge, because he was sitting beside me on the grass...

  Why did the Brits dress their army of 
the
  18th/19th century and some time before in a red 
uniform?

  The answer is NOT "so the blood did 
not
  show"...but go ahead List....the Web marks the time of the correct
  response...

  John

  PS

  Don, you‘ll back me up on this, from 
sitting in
  Battle Field Park...we drank those dark beers much later!

  John
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:32:23 -0500*
Hi Ian
Like you say, nobody on this list seems much interested in history...but 
have had hits from kids off the Board saying "how much more will I take 
home with the pay raise?"
So to answer the question, because I‘ve never seen the answer in 
writing...
A year or so ago, Don was down to Toronto for business, so I picked him 
up, and as luck would have it, it was the Battle of Stoney Creek 
re-enactment weekend here, so we wen over to Battlefield Park to watch 
and participate and converse with the quite serious "re-enactors" ?. 
The Emcee for the event posed this question to the crowd as the actors 
went to their positions.
He reminded us that as civilization advanced, kings started national 
armies.
As you may appreciate, the "recruits" to national service in Britain 
didn‘t have much.  In close combat, the accountant side of you will 
appreciate just how important it may be to be able to recognize who‘s on 
your side versus who‘s against you.  So a uniform as the largess of the 
monarch is evolved...but the largess is never much...soooo...Britain has 
more sheep than people, so wool i cheap...so, naturally, woolen 
uniforms!
Wool is variously coloured in its raw form, so what‘s the cheapest dye?  
Red.
What colour the well known woolen uniform then?  Red.
Kind of holds together doesn‘t it?
Onc your weapons advance and you get specialty weapons rifled guns, 
rifles, cannon etc...Engineer function, whatever, then they can have 
specially coloured uniforms so that the Duke of Wellington, Raglan or 
whoever can sit on his steed on the hilltop, and identify the units and 
their status very clearly.
Now the source of this lore is a gentleman who I do not know, but who 
has risen to "Major" in the re-enactment troupe, and sure talks 
convincingly.  I would bet, a seriously as re-enactments are taken down 
here, that that means a good number of years of researching, so I tend 
to believe it.  Don was there with me, you can check it with him, if you 
think I‘m feeding you a line.
On the other hand, its an interesting question, what, and an interesting 
concept for an answer.
Oh well...
John
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ian Edwards
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 2:17 AM
  Subject: Re: History Q
  John from Ian Edwards: I don‘t know the answer. But if forced to 
guess, perhaps it was to distinguish the English the scarlet predates 
the Act of Union from the French? Heck of a good question and I‘ll want 
to know your source once you reveal all.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: John Gow
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
    Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:24 PM
    Subject: History Q
    Its a contest, okay?
    Last post of the night, and Col Schepens can judge, because he was 
sitting beside me on the grass...
    Why did the Brits dress their army of the 18th/19th century and 
some time before in a red uniform?
    The answer is NOT "so the blood did not show"...but go ahead 
List....the Web marks the time of the correct response...
    John
    PS
    Don, you‘ll back me up on this, from sitting in Battle Field 
Park...we drank those dark beers much later!
    John
Hi Ian
Like you say, nobody on this list seems 
much
interested in history...but have had hits from kids off the Board saying 
"how
much more will I take home with the pay raise?"
So to answer the question, because I‘ve 
never seen
the answer in writing...
A year or so ago, Don was down to 
Toronto for
business, so I picked him up, and as luck would have it, it was the 
Battle of
Stoney Creek re-enactment weekend here, so we wen over to Battlefield 
Park to
watch and participate and converse with the quite serious "re-enactors"
?. 
The Emcee for the event posed this 
question to the
crowd as the actors went to their positions.
He reminded us that as civilization 
advanced, kings
started national armies.
As you may appreciate, the "recruits" 
to national
service in Britain didn‘t have much. In close combat, the 
accountant side
of you will appreciate just how important it may be to be able to 
recognize
who‘s on your side versus who‘s against you. So a uniform as the 
largess
of the monarch is evolved...but the largess is never 
much...soooo...Britain has
more sheep than people, so wool i cheap...so, naturally, woolen
uniforms!
Wool is variously coloured in its raw 
form, so
what‘s the cheapest dye? Red.
What colour the well known woolen 
uniform
then? Red.
Kind of holds together doesn‘t 
it?
Onc your weapons advance and you get 
specialty
weapons rifled guns, rifles, cannon etc...Engineer function, whatever, 
then
they can have specially coloured uniforms so that the Duke of 
Wellington, Raglan
or whoever can sit on his steed on the hilltop, and identify the units 
and
their status very clearly.
Now the source of this lore is a 
gentleman who I do
not know, but who has risen to "Major" in the re-enactment troupe, and 
sure
talks convincingly. I would bet, a seriously as re-enactments are 
taken
down here, that that means a good number of years of researching, so I 
tend to
believe it. Don was there with me, you can check it with him, if 
you think
I‘m feeding you a line.
On the other hand, its an interesting 
question,
what, and an interesting concept for an answer.
Oh well...
John
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Ian 
Edwards

  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 
2:17
  AM
  Subject: Re: History Q

  John from Ian Edwards: I don‘t know 
the answer.
  But if forced to guess, perhaps it was to distinguish the English the 
scarlet
  predates the Act of Union from the French? Heck of a good question 
and I‘ll
  want to know your source once you reveal all.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From:
    John Gow 
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
    Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 
11:24
    PM
    Subject: History Q

    Its a contest, okay?

    Last post of the night, and Col 
Schepens can
    judge, because he was sitting beside me on the grass...

    Why did the Brits dress their army 
of the
    18th/19th century and some time before in a red 
uniform?

    The answer is NOT "so the blood did 
not
    show"...but go ahead List....the Web marks the time of the correct
    response...

    John

    PS

    Don, you‘ll back me up on this, 
from sitting in
    Battle Field Park...we drank those dark beers much 
later!

    John
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remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:06:21 -0700*
Speaking of re-enactors.... I attended a large Highland Gathering here a 
few weeks ago.... I watched a real cool reenactment group representing 
the Gordon Highlanders..... Zulu War era. Well, they put on a pretty 
neat demonstration which included a Gunner in period costume, shooting a 
small cannon. As you can imagine, British drill from that period isn‘t 
much different than current Canadian drill! I wandered over after the 
show, to see if they needed someone to help instruct drill, participate, 
man the Gun, or whatever... Turns out, they weren‘t local,, but their 
Sergeant that taught drill to the outfit is out of Tucson. I talked to 
him, and it turns out, he started his military career at 30 RCA! What a 
small world.......
MacF
Speaking of 
re-enactors.... I
attended a large Highland Gathering here a few weeks ago.... I watched a 
real
cool reenactment group representing the Gordon Highlanders..... Zulu War 
era.
Well, they put on a pretty neat demonstration which included a Gunner in 
period
costume, shooting a small cannon. As you can imagine, British drill from 
that
period isn‘t much different than current Canadian drill! I wandered over 
after
the show, to see if they needed someone to help instruct drill, 
participate, man
the Gun, or whatever... Turns out, they weren‘t local,, but their 
Sergeant that
taught drill to the outfit is out of Tucson. I talked to him, and it 
turns out,
he started his military career at 30 RCA! What a small 
world.......
MacF
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Thu, 29 Mar 2001 07:06:29 -0700*
As I‘m just picking this up, I‘ll give the answer.  Its because the red 
cloth was the cheapest most economical? to buy and at the time of the 
decision, British clothing manufacturers had an overabundance of wool.
Don
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: John Gow
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:24 PM
  Subject: History Q
  Its a contest, okay?

  Last post of the night, and Col Schepens can judge, because he was 
sitting beside me on the grass...

  Why did the Brits dress their army of the 18th/19th century and some 
time before in a red uniform?

  The answer is NOT "so the blood did not show"...but go ahead 
List....the Web marks the time of the correct response...

  John

  PS

  Don, you‘ll back me up on this, from sitting in Battle Field Park...we 
drank those dark beers much later!

  John
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
As I‘m just picking this up, I‘ll give 
the
answer. Its because the red cloth was the cheapest most 
economical? to
buy and at the time of the decision, British clothing manufacturers had 
an
overabundance of wool.
Don
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  John Gow 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 
11:24
  PM
  Subject: History Q

  Its a contest, okay?

  Last post of the night, and Col 
Schepens can
  judge, because he was sitting beside me on the grass...

  Why did the Brits dress their army of 
the
  18th/19th century and some time before in a red 
uniform?

  The answer is NOT "so the blood did 
not
  show"...but go ahead List....the Web marks the time of the correct
  response...

  John

  PS

  Don, you‘ll back me up on this, from 
sitting in
  Battle Field Park...we drank those dark beers much later!

  John
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----------



## army

Posted by *CoastDanny@aol.com* on *Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:14:32 EST*
John,  actually I have been following all the "historical" threads with 
intrest. Since I am not terribly knowledgable in that I prefer not to open my 
mouth and ‘remove all doubt‘.  Thanks for all the info. 
Danny
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----------

