# Legendary Vandoos ‘do the job right'



## 3rd Herd (18 Jul 2007)

The Usual Diclaimer and mods permission to move:

Legendary Vandoos ‘do the job right'
MATT HARTLEY AND JOANNA SMITH 

Globe and Mail Update

July 16, 2007 at 1:06 AM EDT

For many Quebeckers, the Royal 22nd Regiment, known as the Vandoos, are to the military what Maurice Richard was to hockey – a valiant symbol of francophone identity and an integral part of Québécois culture.

About 200 troops from the Royal 22nd Regiment left CFB Valcartier for Kandahar Sunday. More than 2,000 Vandoos, from a total of 2,500 troops, will take over Canada's mission over the next seven weeks. 

As the Vandoos ship out, they fight not just for Canada, but for the reputation of all francophones, according to Roch Legault, a professor of Canadian military history and strategy at Kingston's Royal Military College.

“They're like our team,” he said. “They know they carry the burden of representing French Canadians at war.”
For many in Quebec, the Vandoos are more than just a regiment in the army; they are the army, Mr. Legault said. “They're bigger than life.” 

The deployment of the Vandoos and other Quebec-based soldiers from CFB Valcartier has been met with opposition in the province. Anti-war demonstrators took to the streets of Quebec City on June 22 to protest the deployment, in an attempt to interrupt a planned march to show support for the departing soldiers.

Canada has 2,500 soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan. Since the war began in 2002, approximately 14,900 troops have been sent to the region. Troops are rotated every six to nine months. Altogether, 66 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have lost their lives in Afghanistan since 2002.

A Strategic Counsel poll conducted for The Globe and Mail in May showed that only 24 per cent of Quebeckers support sending troops to Afghanistan, while 73 per cent said they were opposed. The largest group of respondents, 40 per cent, were those who said they were “strongly opposed” to the deployment of troops. 

Some have speculated that those numbers could prompt the military to alter tactics in Afghanistan to minimize Vandoos casualties in an effort to avoid further backlash in a province with the lowest war-approval ratings. 

Such special treatment is unlikely, Mr. Legault said.

“You can see the polls and I think the brass read the polls as well, but the Vandoos will not want to do less than the other regiments,” he said. “They will not be asked to do less. That's not something that will be envisioned. It would destroy the esprit de corps. You don't do that.”

The Royal 22nd Regiment was founded shortly after the outbreak of the First World War and has become emblematic of Quebec's contribution to the Canadian Forces. 

The nickname “Vandoos” derives from a corrupted version of vingt-deuxième, French for 22nd.

“French Canada identifies with the military, then the infantry and then the Vandoos,” Mr. Legault said.

During the First and Second World Wars, the Vandoos fought like they had something to prove to the rest of the mostly English-speaking military, and that attitude has been passed down to the troops who serve today, Mr. Legault said.

The Vandoos are one of the most disciplined and professional regiments in the Canadian military, but they have a certain reputation among military ranks for bringing a unique swagger and bravado to their work, he said. “They like to brag about things more than the others … and have a reputation to whine a little bit more than the others, but they do the job right.”

Mr. Legault said the brass in charge of the Vandoos are very conscious of the regiment's place in Quebec's public consciousness, and strive to make their soldiers mindful of that responsibility.

About 1,200 Quebeckers signed up to fight overseas in the First World War, but they were scattered across different English-speaking groups, and the alienation they felt did little to boost their numbers or support for the war back home.

Believing national unity was at stake, dozens of influential French-Canadians, including Liberal opposition leader Sir Wilfrid Laurier, lobbied the federal government to create a permanent French-speaking regiment. Quebec businessman Arthur Mignault donated $50,000 of his own money to fund the cause.

“French Canada decided they were not represented well enough, and they wanted to be together, to have their own contribution,” Mr. Legault said.

Conservative prime minister Robert Borden gave his consent to create the regiment in October, 1914, and the Vandoos were born.

On the crest of the Vandoos, which depicts a beaver atop a piece of wood, is emblazoned their motto: Je me souviens (I remember). Those same words appear on the provincial licence plates of Quebec. 

For the Vandoos, the words are a constant reminder of their francophone heritage and the special status the regiment holds with the people of Quebec.

“It is to remember who you are,” Mr. Legault said. “You're kind of special. You may be different from the others.”

Edit to add link:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070716.wvadooshist16/BNStory/Front


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## vonGarvin (18 Jul 2007)

I like Vandoos as much as the next guy, but this write up was a bit "over the top", I feel:


> The Vandoos are *one of the most disciplined * and professional regiments in the Canadian military, but they have a certain reputation among military ranks for bringing a unique swagger and bravado to their work, he said. “They like to brag about things more than the others … and have a reputation to whine a little bit more than the others, but they do the job right.”




One of the top three infantry regiments in the regular army?  ;D

Also, in the spirit of accurate reporting, I feel that this line needs work:


> Anti-war demonstrators took to the streets of Quebec City on June 22 to protest the deployment, in an attempt to interrupt a planned march to show support for the departing soldiers.


I would write it like this:
Anti-war demonstrators took to the streets of Quebec City on June 22 to protest the deployment, in *a failed * attempt to interrupt a planned march to show support for the departing soldiers.


But that's just me!
Also, they forgot to mention that the capbadge says more than "Je Me Souviens"
It also says "Regiment Canadien Francais"


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## CE621 (18 Jul 2007)

Anyone know what their battle honours are/ or actions of note.


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## armyvern (18 Jul 2007)

CE621 said:
			
		

> Anyone know what their battle honours are/ or actions of note.



Right here:

http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/battlehonours/bathnrinf/03-r22er.htm


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## cavalryman (18 Jul 2007)

CE621 said:
			
		

> Anyone know what their battle honours are/ or actions of note.



Or see http://www.r22er.com/

Click on Histoire, and then on "Les Honneurs de Bataille"


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## Yrys (18 Jul 2007)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> For many in Quebec, the Vandoos are more than just a regiment in the army; they are the army, Mr. Legault said. “



I really am not sure about that one. I'm not sure that the regular laymen is so much aware of them.


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## Hawk (18 Jul 2007)

That was a good job of spin, wasn't it? To me it read like the Vandoos were the only professional soldiers in Canada, and all the rest of you are what? Barbarian hoards? Much as I admire the Vandoos, much as my Father admired them - he, a WWII soldier, I think perhaps there are other professional soldiers in Canada.

The rest of what I have to say might get me banned, and I enjoy this forum too much.


Hawk


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## Armymedic (18 Jul 2007)

Let us all hope the media does not pick up on some of the R22R's dirty secrets from ISAF roto 1 and thier tours in Bosnia during UNPROFOR and SFOR.


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## Yrys (18 Jul 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Let us all hope the media does not pick up on some of the R22R's dirty secrets from ISAF roto 1 and thier tours in Bosnia during UNPROFOR and SFOR.



With a sentence like that, clock is ticking ...


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## riggermade (18 Jul 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Let us all hope the media does not pick up on some of the R22R's dirty secrets from ISAF roto 1 and thier tours in Bosnia during UNPROFOR and SFOR.



That was exactely what i was thinking when I saw some of the reports about how great the Vandoos are


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## retiredgrunt45 (18 Jul 2007)

> But that's just me!
> Also, they forgot to mention that the capbadge says more than "Je Me Souviens"
> It also says "Regiment Canadien Francais"



That's right!! Canadian first. At the risk of sounding a bit brisk here, I'm a bred, born and raised Quebecer, but when I hear things like "they are not just another regiment, they are the army here in Quebec" well I get abit heated under the collar! 

The Vandoos regiment is a great regiment and I have the utmost respect for them, but...

 Sorry to burst anyones bubble but the Vandoos are a Canadian regiment who just happens to be the only french regiment in Canada, which just happens to be stationed in "Quebec Canada" .

Its like saying the Patricia's are Alberta's Army or the RCR are Ontario's army. Please give it up already, it's getting really old!

I wish the Vandoos regiment of Canada the best over in the sand box and May God keep them safe and I know they will do a fabulous job for Canada. Go and give them heck boys!! (Allez et donnez-leur des garçons heck).


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Jul 2007)

retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> Sorry to burst anyones bubble but the Vandoos are a Canadian regiment who just happens to be the only french *(infantry)* regiment in Canada, which just happens to be stationed in "Quebec Canada" .



Let's not forget the 12 RBC


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## JackD (18 Jul 2007)

The bit about "only 1200 Quebecers joined up to fight overseas" rankles me - a lie that can be refuted by the number of names on the cenotaphs scattered throughout Quebec. How many battalions were raised in Montreal alone? i guess a topic for the History forum...


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## nihilpavor (18 Jul 2007)

Yrys said:
			
		

> I really am not sure about that one. I'm not sure that the regular laymen is so much aware of them.



Indeed. I don't know much any french Quebecois found of  his military history. In this regard, the R22r doesn't ring a bell for many people around here.


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## Yrys (18 Jul 2007)

I only asked 1 guy, and he knew, but if I continue my inquiry, I'm not sure I will be surprised 
another time...


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## TheHead (18 Jul 2007)

Legendary?


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## Sig_Des (18 Jul 2007)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Let's not forget the 12 RBC



Or 5 RALC


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## HItorMiss (18 Jul 2007)

I would say Storied, but then again I don't think the term Legendary applies to any Regiment in Canada. As I said Storied is more accurate IMO.


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## Kiwi99 (19 Jul 2007)

The media are a weird bunch.  I have heard over hyped reporting of the 'legendary Vanddos', the 'Famed Vandoos' and a lot of other stuff.  There is the problem though, building sdomething up, and then pouncing if it doesn't work.    Now, not taking anything away from the Vandoos, or any Quebec based unit, but anyone who  has had the displeasure of relieving them on tour may understand more about why they are 'famed' and 'legendary'.  This will be an interesting tour, but going on previous experiance, I would not want to be the Battle Group relieving them down the road.  At least the camps will be sorted with all the comforts.


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## Yrys (19 Jul 2007)

Kiwi99 said:
			
		

> At least the camps will be sorted with all the comforts.



Must be the "latin" blood, that we, Quebecers, have  ;D !


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## GK .Dundas (19 Jul 2007)

At least the camps will be sorted with all the comforts. 

or at least all the gucci spandex work out suits one could ever ask for!


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## armyvern (19 Jul 2007)

Kiwi99 said:
			
		

> This will be an interesting tour, but going on previous experiance, I would not want to be the Battle Group relieving them down the road.  At least the*ir* camps will be sorted with all the comforts.



Absolutely correct above with the little edit.


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## RatCatcher (19 Jul 2007)

WOW, this topic is getting great. First of all, a couple of points of clarrification of me... I am a member of this roto, and from 5 GBMC, I also have been a member 1 CMBG and have been trained in Pet also (RCR Battle School for my JLC/JNCO). 

I will not get into facts of past tours of the 5GBMC, since I have never done a tour with them (just the MDT with 3CSG), however I ask Retiredgrunt what is written on the signs of 1 CBMG... when I was there it was "The Army of the West". 

As for this tour, we (I speak from my exp as a PMed/HSS pers), have been training very hard to bring honour to our country, our brigade, our unit and ourselves. Some of us, like myself have been training for a tour for over 2 years (TF 2-06, 4-06, 3-07), thats 3 wainwrights, and a handful of other exs. 

Are the VanDoos cocky, damned right! Are the RCR, PPCLI, _____________(insert applicable unit/regiment/branch/service) cocky too.... IMHO damned right. Does the media sometime not understand the cockiness, yes and I mean always.

If you actually talk to the soldiers, they don't mention that we are going to "do it better", most just want to do the job. And honestly, we are under the microscope here in "La belle province", but we have another media in the rest of Canada watching us for different reasons. (Side note, I am sure none of you have ever received a mailling from peaceniks at your pvt residence...)

Every brigade, unit, branch, and service work differently. I have served or worked with all three Reg F brigades, and a couple of Res F ones too. While this may upset the way handoversare conducted, our main goals are the same:

1) complete the mission
2) help the people of Afghanistan get back on their feet
3) come home safe to our loved ones.

I thank you for the words of encouragement retiredgrunt and I thank all of you for your time today!


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## vonGarvin (19 Jul 2007)

Yrys said:
			
		

> Must be the "latin" blood, that we, Quebecers, have  ;D !


Vive le Quebec sexy!   >


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## GAP (19 Jul 2007)

I doubt there is any on this site, and of those that support the CF that think there ever was or will be anything less than excellence from the Vandoo's. 

Razzing....yes, teasing....yes, pride....yes.


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## MG34 (19 Jul 2007)

GAP said:
			
		

> I doubt there is any on this site, and of those that support the CF that think there ever was or will be anything less than excellence from the Vandoo's......



That would be a nice change given their past "legendary" performance


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## 2 Cdo (19 Jul 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> That would be a nice change given their past "legendary" performance



Concur 100%!


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## BernDawg (19 Jul 2007)

BTDT.


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## Drummy (19 Jul 2007)

More than 2000 Vandoos, from a total of 2,500 troops, will take over Canada's mission over the next seven weeks. (from first post in this thread).

I'm not sure any longer how many are in a Regiment, but if there are approximately 800 in a Bn X 3 Bns= 2400, does this mean that just about the whole Regiment is going over? Or is this another media screw up?

Drummy


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## HItorMiss (19 Jul 2007)

I would think this an error...

However if they were also manning postions in the PRT as well as the next OMLT, then the number could be accurate.


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## Flip (19 Jul 2007)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> I would say Storied, but then again I don't think the term Legendary applies to any Regiment in Canada. As I said Storied is more accurate IMO.



I thought the Patricias are/were legendary.........
but I'm a civvie. What do I know?       ;D


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## HItorMiss (19 Jul 2007)

Again more storied then Legendary, they are the youngest Regular Force Regiment. In the end it really doesn't matter, every Regiment has it's history.


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## Drummy (19 Jul 2007)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> I would think this an error...
> 
> However if they were also manning postions in the PRT as well as the next OMLT, then the number could be accurate.



Thanks HitorMiss   Drummy


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## 3rd Herd (19 Jul 2007)

RatCatcher said:
			
		

> If you actually talk to the soldiers, they don't mention that we are going to "do it better", most just want to do the job. And honestly, we are under the microscope here in "La belle province", but we have another media in the rest of Canada watching us for different reasons.  (Side note, I am sure none of you have ever received a mailling from peaceniks at your pvt residence...)



Despite my natural ingrained hazing nature of the VanDoo's if you care to look into some of their WW1, WW2 and Korean History there is a substainial tradition. Here is a record yet to beat I think, " In the chaplain's hut ... another casualty has just been given first aid. One of the scouts from the Van Doos has been wounded in the wrist. Roussin, an Indian, is the most wounded man in the Regiment, perhaps in the entire British Army. This one will earn him a ninth wound stripe. It's starting to become old hat to him; he's patched up and heads back to his post"(VAC) After all their founder, later command their unit much as my own. and then went on to become Govoner General Georges Vanier in 1959. Yes it is going to be a controversial deployment, but all of our regiments have been on controversial deployments, rotations or tours. I do not see any offers for these tour T-Shirts. And yes they are going to be under a microscope........................"Anti-war sentiment is growing across the country but nowhere is it like what is happening in La Belle Province. Anti-war letters were sent out to areas in which members of the Van Doos and their families live. And when members of the regiment were introduced in the public gallery of the Quebec National Assembly some members of the PQ refused to stand and applaud. Soldiers in Quebec have been yelled at and called “baby killers” by protesters. Anti war activists in other provinces have been content by and large direct to their anger for the war at the government, Stephen Harper and of course the man who is behind all of the world’s problems, George W. Bush. Even returning soldiers in the United States have not been subjected to the kind of abuse that those who returned from Vietnam were and what some of the Royal 22 Regiment in Quebec have and are being subjected to.
"http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/weinreb071907.htm" The CBC has some interesting Van Doo archives at Royal 22nd Regiment: Canada's Fighting 'Van Doos' http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-71-579/conflict_war/van_doos/. The idea folks is to support our troops at one time or another we all lived in a glass castle.


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## RatCatcher (19 Jul 2007)

Thanks for the eloquent response 3rd herd.  You are right that there is traditions in heroes in all, look at Tommy Prince, Frederick Topham et al. We all, regardless of regimental/branch affiliation have a tradition to carry on .


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## Mjohns (26 Jul 2007)

Drummy/HitorMiss,

as a member of 1CMBG going over with 5 CMBG I can tell you that the 2000 number is innacurate.  The Vandoos are sending .......



Matt





Mode note: No need to include numbers or formations....


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## mudrecceman (27 Jul 2007)

Well, all I can say is...one of my former Tp Ldr's is a CIMIC Tm Ldr in the sandbox now...working alot with the PRT and his "protection force" is a VanDoo sect.

In his emails, he has nothing but good things to say about them.  "Excellent soldiers, always watching my back.  They have their shit wired tight" I believe was how he put it...

my 2 pennies.


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## PuckChaser (29 Jul 2007)

Drummy said:
			
		

> More than 2000 Vandoos, from a total of 2,500 troops, will take over Canada's mission over the next seven weeks. (from first post in this thread).
> 
> I'm not sure any longer how many are in a Regiment, but if there are approximately 800 in a Bn X 3 Bns= 2400, does this mean that just about the whole Regiment is going over? Or is this another media screw up?
> 
> Drummy



We're all labelled as Vandoos for TF3-07, be it people from my unit, 12 RBC, 5 RALC, 5 BN SVC, etc. The units coming from outside Quebec to fill slots sorta get lumped in.


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## Drummy (29 Jul 2007)

Thanks for all the replies/answers.   

I didn't think that the whole regiment would be going over, but then funnier things have happened, haven't they.  

All the best    Drummy


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## DirtyDog (29 Jul 2007)

Did anyone read the disparaging article on the Van Doos in Frank magazine?

Very negative.


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## Retired AF Guy (30 Jul 2007)

Well leave it up to our favourite military reporter to dig up the dirt:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Columnists/850355.html


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## 3rd Herd (30 Jul 2007)

"Using phonetic repetition in the belief that they were learning how to say "Hello, how are you?" in French, the Afghans were overheard chanting "F- - - you, Vandoo" by an embedded journalist." One obviously an "embedded journalist" that shoulde be promptly dis-embedded for a couple of reasons" 

"but those familiar with our army’s recent past know that the animosity between our anglophone and francophone combat units runs deeper than that. One of the reasons for this is that the senior brass  has consistently oversold the Vandoos" According to most of the recent army history I have either read or written about yes the senior brass are part of the problem or should I say were part of the problem but DND also has a political side.

"either the Princess Patricia’s Light Infantry or the Royal Canadian Regiment, and yet neither of these units receives similarly fawning monikers in the national press." As I stated in a post awhile back we PPCLI do not need some journalist to promote us, at times we very good at self promotion. ;D As for the RCRs they aviod publication as the cannot afford lawsuits from farmers whose chickens stop laying once it is rummored they are now in the AO 

"should look to the Canadian example. Rather than simply herding together Afghan recruits into one single battalion, why not separate them into sub-units that allow them to train and fight with members of their own language and ethnicity" A BIG CONTRADICTION HERE FOLKS


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## Kiwi99 (30 Jul 2007)

Dare I say it, but well done Scott Taylor.  Finally someone has spoken the truth in the media.  As for the 'f__k you Vandoo', I remember tslking to and RCR guy who relieved us who was hoping that some back water Afghan village would acknowledge him with a 'Hello chi...f..ker'. Lets not be one sided and think that the Vandoos do not make fun of other people as well.  They got us really good one time during a change in units in a theater when they crapped in our ammo tins, or sold our stuff on the black market.  Man, those were good ones, they really got us good.  PUNKED for sure.


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## 3rd Herd (30 Jul 2007)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070730.wgauthier30/BNStory/Front
The Usual Disclaimer:
Vandoos won't be shielded, military says
PAUL KORING 
From Monday's Globe and Mail
July 30, 2007 at 1:17 AM EDT

KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN — The commander of all Canadian expeditionary forces overseas directly confronted and rejected Sunday a whispering campaign suggesting the government has quietly requested the Royal 22nd Regiment be held back from the worst fighting, so as to avoid casualties and inflame anti-war sentiment in Quebec.

It's a suggestion that deeply offends many in the regiment, known as the Vandoos, now arriving in Kandahar.
Lieutenant-General Michel Gauthier said Sunday it's just not true.

“It would matter not one bit whether it would be Vandoos coming into the mission area or Patricias coming into the mission area or more Royals coming into the mission area,'' he said, referring colloquially to the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and the Royal Canadian Regiment, both of which have already fought tours in southern Afghanistan.
And he flatly rejected suggestions that there was political interference from the Harper government shaping the role of the Vandoos to avoid casualties.

“Categorically, absolutely not,'' he said. “I have been given full freedom to decide how I am going to do this job and how I am going to employ forces in the mission area.''

“It honestly makes no difference to me,'' he said. “I don't consider ‘well the troops are coming from one particular province and therefore I will tailor the tasks in a certain way.'”

However, the general did confirm that the Vandoos will spend more effort on training and mentoring the growing number of Afghan National Army soldiers than the outgoing battle group.

That shift to increased training has long been a central element to the Canadian and NATO long-term campaign plans in Afghanistan.

The shift was not taken “with the objective of us not fighting any more, because we are going to have to fight for the foreseeable future,'' Gen. Gauthier said.

In a series of opinion polls since the mission began, about half those surveyed nationwide have been against the decision to send Canadian forces to Afghanistan, while about two-thirds of Quebeckers have been opposed. 

The military is hoping returning Quebec-based soldiers will help increase support for the mission, by talking about their experiences to schools and community groups.


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## Greymatters (30 Jul 2007)

Im sure everyone has a story about a run-in with Vandoo soldiers, or Quebecois soldiers in general, but I dont think we should advertise it here.


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## Col.Steiner (31 Jul 2007)

Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure you will) but the resentment here is very thinly veiled? I read Scott Taylor's no-holds-barred article and I had no idea that those three events took place, except for the Airborne incident, but I realize it was the 22nd's. I try to go by the old adage 'if you can't say something nice, don't ...' but I have never heard a positive thing ever said about the Vandoos outside the media, and have had the displeasure of being cooped up with some of them in a reform school gymnasium during the ice storm of '98. I couldn't have imagined a regiment that laissez-faire about their approach to the situation, and the entire scene was one huge frat party-esque with soldiers trying to seduce the female patients (read sexually harassed), defecating in our kit bags or cots, and trying to steal one of our headdresses for a regimental souvenir. But the thing that really got my goat was their complete disdain for Canada and English-speaking people, which was the case of our entire regiment. I realize separatists politicians don’t see the irony of drawing a federal pay check, so it came as no surprise that the Vandoos wouldn't be too choosy either.
 Just my opinion, and an opinion formed from what I saw!


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## armyvern (31 Jul 2007)

Col.Steiner said:
			
		

> Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure you will) but the resentment here is very thinly veiled? I read Scott Taylor's no-holds-barred article and I had no idea that those three events took place, except for the Airborne incident, but I realize it was the 22nd's. I try to go by the old adage 'if you can't say something nice, don't ...' but I have never heard a positive thing ever said about the Vandoos outside the media, and have had the displeasure of being cooped up with some of them in a reform school gymnasium during the ice storm of '98. I couldn't have imagined a regiment that laissez-faire about their approach to the situation, and the entire scene was one huge frat party-esque with soldiers trying to seduce the female patients (read sexually harassed), defecating in our kit bags or cots, and trying to steal one of our headdresses for a regimental souvenir. But the thing that really got my goat was their complete disdain for Canada and English-speaking people, which was the case of our entire regiment. I realize separatists politicians don’t see the irony of drawing a federal pay check, so it came as no surprise that the Vandoos wouldn't be too choosy either.
> Just my opinion, and an opinion formed from what I saw!



Whoa!!! Slow down.

You know what they say about if you can't post something nice ....

Col Steiner eh?? A _The Eagle has Landed_ Fan are we??


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## scotty884 (31 Jul 2007)

What makes the "vandoos" so legendary??  I'm having trouble figuring out why they are titled this everytime I see or hear of them brought up.  if they so "legendary" than what are the PPCLI?  the RCR??  JW cause I see that these 2 organizations seem to have been taking most the tours.....casualties......and my upmost respect.  Not trying to start a fuss or be rude, just a straight out question.


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## brihard (31 Jul 2007)

Col.Steiner said:
			
		

> Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure you will) but the resentment here is very thinly veiled? I read Scott Taylor's no-holds-barred article and I had no idea that those three events took place, except for the Airborne incident, but I realize it was the 22nd's. I try to go by the old adage 'if you can't say something nice, don't ...' but I have never heard a positive thing ever said about the Vandoos outside the media, and have had the displeasure of being cooped up with some of them in a reform school gymnasium during the ice storm of '98. I couldn't have imagined a regiment that laissez-faire about their approach to the situation, and the entire scene was one huge frat party-esque with soldiers trying to seduce the female patients (read sexually harassed), defecating in our kit bags or cots, and trying to steal one of our headdresses for a regimental souvenir. But the thing that really got my goat was their complete disdain for Canada and English-speaking people, which was the case of our entire regiment. I realize separatists politicians don’t see the irony of drawing a federal pay check, so it came as no surprise that the Vandoos wouldn't be too choosy either.
> Just my opinion, and an opinion formed from what I saw!



Just an FYI, it's common courtesy around here to flesh out your forum profile a bit more, so people have a better idea who they're speaking to. Thanks.

Sounds like a lack of effective leadership in that situation...


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## armyvern (31 Jul 2007)

Oh, and I'll just add that I spent 6 months tasked with the VanDoos in Goose Bay during the low-level flight protests to perform the searches on any females who were detained.

I was the only female. I'm English. They treated me perfectly fine. There were one or two asshats of course, but hey ... every Unit has to have a couple of them.

And that's my opinion, from someone who's also worked with them. 

Everyone has their idiots.


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## 3rd Herd (31 Jul 2007)

Crafty884 said:
			
		

> Not trying to start a fuss or be rude, just a straight out question.


and I do think think there is a straight answer. I have seen the Van Doos described as "legendary" in some of the CBC archives going back to WW2. It would be nice to have one of their Regimental history types answer this one.

Edit to add: The descriptor "fighting" Van Doos also seems to have some past era connotations, possibly Korea.

edit to the edit: Our favourite military expert and reporter missed one in his report on the Van Doos. Anyone old enough to remember a Cpl. and SMG ?


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## Col.Steiner (31 Jul 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Oh, and I'll just add that I spent 6 months tasked with the VanDoos in Goose Bay during the low-level flight protests to perform the searches on any females who were detained.
> 
> I was the only female. I'm English. They treated me perfectly fine. There were one or two asshats of course, but hey ... every Unit has to have a couple of them.
> 
> ...


Yes, I suppose it just appeared they were all asshats! I guess it might have been the orchestrated chansons they had written for us têtes carrées that gave me that impression.


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## Ex-Dragoon (31 Jul 2007)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> and I do think think there is a straight answer. I have seen the Van Doos described as "legendary" in some of the CBC archives going back to WW2. It would be nice to have one of their Regimental history types answer this one.
> 
> Edit to add: The descriptor "fighting" Van Doos also seems to have some past era connotations, possibly Korea.
> 
> edit to the edit: Our favourite military expert and reporter missed one in his report on the Van Doos. Anyone old enough to remember a Cpl. and SMG ?



Wasn't he a Sup Tech assigned to the VanDoos?


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## 3rd Herd (31 Jul 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Wasn't he a Sup Tech assigned to the VanDoos?


Cannot remember exactly but you know who we be talking about so no need for the children to stay up late waitting for more.


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## armyvern (31 Jul 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Wasn't he a Sup Tech assigned to the VanDoos?



They love assigning us Sup techs to the VanDoos ... 'cause we're _special_!!  

And I think all 911ers are familiar with Denis.


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## Ex-Dragoon (31 Jul 2007)

Special indeed....special needs, special bus, special all around


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## Trooper Hale (1 Aug 2007)

Sorry but did anyone else catch this bit,
"When one factors in that the casualty count of 66 dead and 260 wounded to date has been borne solely by these anglophone regiments"
"the combat operations in Afghanistan have been conducted by either the Princess Patricia’s Light Infantry or the Royal Canadian Regiment"

By "borne solely by these anglophone regiments" the writer is referring to the RCR and PPCLI, how about the RCD's and others? I can very much understand why you guys get frustrated at the media. Apparently Canada has 3 Regiments, RCR, PPCLI and the Vandoo's. Sorry to say it guys, but Armour no longer exists in the CF according to this acticle.
Good on him for trying to tell some of the truth but its kind of ironic that in showing the lack of equality he _also_ shows a lack of equality.
You dont have to be a grunt to fight overseas. Black Hatters are fighting and dying too.


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## HItorMiss (1 Aug 2007)

Agreed Hale

But I can semi forgive him as those RCD, Medics and others have dies under the auspice of either a PPCLI Battle Group or an RCR one. So I can semi see how it is that it would get written that way. Doesn't make it right though nor do I agree with it. And Really if Scott Taylor is such and "EXPERT" on the military then you would think he would be able to figure out how it all works eh? ahhh well cest la vie mes amis!


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## Trooper Hale (1 Aug 2007)

Thats what i find ironic i think, he's trying to show how he knows more then others and just ends up proving that he too is ignorant of the facts. Good on him though, like i said before, for actually caring. I think thats why he's done this, because he actually cares, and thats a good thing. It'd just be really nice if he didnt lump the entire efforts of the Canadian forces in Afghanistan under RCR and PPCLI.
Hopefully in his next article he can correct this and send a bit of loving to the rest of you blokes and ladies.
Bold & Swift.


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## Greymatters (3 Aug 2007)

So many experts, but so few solutions....


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## Old Sweat (3 Aug 2007)

Anyone old enough to remember a Cpl. and SMG ?

As I recall, the individual was a supply tech, posted to CFS Carp.


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## Greymatters (3 Aug 2007)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Anyone old enough to remember a Cpl. and SMG ?  As I recall, the individual was a supply tech, posted to CFS Carp.



I believe you are refering to Denis Lortie and the event was in 1984.  Or are you refering to Mark Lepine in 1989?


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## Old Sweat (3 Aug 2007)

I was referring to Lortie. Did Lepine have any military service?


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## Greymatters (3 Aug 2007)

Cant say for sure, some sources he was a reservist, but others said he was rejected from the reserves.  Cant recall where I read this...was it on a thread here?  I tried a search but didnt see anything I recognized.


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## Danjanou (3 Aug 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Cant say for sure, some sources he was a reservist, but others said he was rejected from the reserves.  Cant recall where I read this...was it on a thread here?  I tried a search but didnt see anything I recognized.



I just did a quick google on him and a the first couple of hits all said he tried to join and was rejected.


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## Greymatters (3 Aug 2007)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I just did a quick google on him and a the first couple of hits all said he tried to join and was rejected.



I saw those too, but dont have much faith in the ability of those sources to portray facts correctly.


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## Danjanou (3 Aug 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> I saw those too, but dont have much faith in the ability of those sources to portray facts correctly.



Seen, however if he had any military connection at all I'm sure the anit gun lobby and others would have brought it up at the time. Where Brent Taylor leader of the Squamish Five/Direct Action received his weapons training comes to mind.


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## Greymatters (3 Aug 2007)

Ah, too true!


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## Retired AF Guy (3 Aug 2007)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> I just did a quick google on him and a the first couple of hits all said he tried to join and was rejected.



If my memory serves me correctly, Lepine had tried to join the military and was rejected. However, there was a military connection. Apparently, he received some firearms training from an uncle (cousin?) who was a member (former member?) of the Canadian Airborne Regiment. Like I said, my memory may be a little hazy, but this kind of sticks in my memory.


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## Blackadder1916 (3 Aug 2007)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Anyone old enough to remember a Cpl. and SMG ?
> 
> As I recall, the individual was a supply tech, posted to CFS Carp.



Correct, he worked at the Diefenbunker.  He was also a neighbour, lived a few doors down from me on Uplands at the time of the incident.  While I didn't know him well (a very private, quiet kind of guy) I don't believe that he had ever served with the VanDoo.


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## honestyrules (3 Aug 2007)

> Im sure everyone has a story about a run-in with Vandoo soldiers, or Quebecois soldiers in general,



I take a little bit of offense to the last portion of that statement.
Ok, I won't lose any sleep over it though! But think about the ones how cares...I know quite a few.

And BTW, back on topic, the "legendary thing"...a legend is made of people talking about it ,isn't it? Don't give them more attention than the other soldier then BAM! Here the legend goes. I realize that it's coming from a journalist again DAMN IT! They are what they are, nothing to do about it.

The thing that really bugs me though is that now that the Vandoos are deploying to AFG, the french news channels are talking about it like "we are now in AFG!", JEEZ wake up medias! There are already a lot of fine soldiers that sacrificed their lives to that mission and a lot more that contributed to the mission.


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## SiG_22_Qc (8 Aug 2007)

I've heard a legend about a vandoo lav firing on a LDSH tank on live fire exercise, probably just a legend. And i can understand anyone who got a bad experience which X or Y regiment to hold a grudge, who could blame them.


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## George Wallace (8 Aug 2007)

SiG_22_Qc said:
			
		

> I've heard a legend about a vandoo lav firing on a LDSH tank on live fire exercise, probably just a legend.



More like the "Mad Vandoo of Wainwright"........not a legend, but a rumour spread so often to sound like a legend.


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## Greymatters (8 Aug 2007)

Never heard that one myself...


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## geo (8 Aug 2007)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> Our favourite military expert and reporter missed one in his report on the Van Doos. Anyone old enough to remember a Cpl. and SMG ?



Said Cpl was a supply guy that was stationed @ the Diefenbunker in Carp Ontario.
He took a wee bit of a drive to Quebec to do his dirty deed..... However, the Legislature's master at arms who faced and talked Cpl Lortie down from his rage was a former R22R officer.

And this guy stared down the barrel of an SMG


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## geo (8 Aug 2007)

Well, given that I have worked around the "pesky beavers" pert much my entire career, I can safely say that 99% of them are good soldiers who do not need to take a back seat to any other fighting soldier.


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## Colin Parkinson (8 Aug 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> Said Cpl was a supply guy that was stationed @ the Diefenbunker in Carp Ontario.
> He took a wee bit of a drive to Quebec to do his dirty deed..... However, the Legislature's master at arms who faced and talked Cpl Lortie down from his rage was a former R22R officer.
> 
> And this guy stared down the barrel of an SMG



I was in Ecuador when this happen and I went to the small embassy and was invited into the ambassadors office to watch the news film about it. A impressive performance by the Sergent at Arms.


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## geo (8 Aug 2007)

heh.... (thus my description of him being "master" )


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