# Signaller‘s - Training, Promotion, Retention, Employment



## onecat (22 Sep 2002)

Hi all!
Well here is my question, I‘m interested in the signal operators trade (215).  But it‘s hard to info on it. What is like, and what are you trained to do. I mean what software are you trained use (e.i. Unix), and the last thing is what is like in the trade from someone who‘s been in it.

Oh yes on other question.  Where would find list of CF courses, ( recce or the sniper course).

Thanks


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## onecat (22 Sep 2002)

Hi all!
Well here is my question, I‘m interested in the signal operators trade (215).  But it‘s hard to info on it. What is like, and what are you trained to do. I mean what software are you trained use (e.i. Unix), and the last thing is what is like in the trade from someone who‘s been in it.

Oh yes on other question.  Where would find list of CF courses, ( recce or the sniper course).

Thanks


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## astrof (22 Sep 2002)

It really depends on where in the trade you end up because it is so diverse. But generally our job is to provide communications to the guys out on the sharp end. Generally you will start off in tactical end of the communications spectrum, in the Brigade or Battalion level. Working on CNR(P) CPs. 

A lists of some of the equipment that you will likely see and for the most part become familiar with can be found at:
 http://www.computingdevices.com/iris/index2.html 

Software wise, out in the field you will be taught how to run and do very basic administration of SCO UNIX, and quite a bit of custom designed planning sofware. Also you will be taught very basic NT4 administration. 

The trade is very fluid right now and there is talk of splitting the trade and also making it a specialist trade. The only sure thing is that right now the trade is woefully undermanned and desperate for new people.

Oh and of course for trade info straight from the horses mouth
 http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/html/army/careers/career_profiles/sign_oper.html


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## onecat (23 Sep 2002)

Thanks.  For the info so far.  I already have basic NT4 and some network experience, so I figure that will help.  Thanks for the website about Iris it looks like a great system.  

 Actually I was wondering if there was a site that list the specilaize training after you finish your QL3 training.  I was looking at this a long term career and was hoping to get some insite on where I can go.  Glad to hear that they lots of positions open.  I just wish there was more out there about the forces.

Dave


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## astrof (24 Sep 2002)

Right now you will mostly end up in a field unit in the Rad Op end of the spectrum. specialty courses will not be offered until you have you Ql5(Journeymans) course. And a few years experience. There is no specific list of courses that can be offered on the web. But there is a large variety of courses that can be taken from TCCCS specialty courses to Sattelite Comms, to administration of Field Deployable computer systems. You can a ask a recruiter for more info.

If you are looking for a more computer oriented trade I would recommend LCIS Tech or Comm Researcher.


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## Tyrnagog (12 Apr 2003)

Good day all,

I have been searching my arse off, and I still can‘t find an answer.  I was hoping you all would be able to help.

Besides Kingston, where could a potential Signals Officer hope to end up in Canada?  And what regiments are attached to the locations?

I have been able to find out a lot about the various communications reserves, but nothing about reg forces..

Thanks!


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## Michael OLeary (14 Apr 2003)

You will find that there are Signals officers stationed throughout the country. The main army postings for Reg F signals officers would be with the Regiment or the School at Kingston, or with the divisional (Kingston) or brigade headquarters (Edmonton, Patawawa or Valcatier). Also, each combat arms unit has a signals officer (a a Captain).

Mike


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## Tyrnagog (14 Apr 2003)

Thanks so much!  I appreciate the info!


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## Andyd513 (24 May 2004)

Hello!

If some current/former sig ops could answer some of my questions I‘d be very thankful.

I‘m 19, going into 2nd year of a computer (software engineering) college program. I‘m doing basic/sq for R215 this summer in Shilo, and am pumped about it. So hyped that I‘m looking into the reg force.

I‘m looking for your opinions on what you guys think the training for reg force signallers is like? Is it useful in todays civilian workplace? Do signallers receive good civilian job options if they decide its the end of their military time? How long would I spend in training before I become deployable?

Also, what is a general timeline for being promoted as a sig op (assuming you are a fit, driven, team oriented person)?

What is the deployment pace for a sig op? I searched the forums and saw that at least 1 deployment every 3 years is standard for them.

Are there incentives given to keep signal operators on past the initial 3 year signing?

I guess the biggest question in there is advancement and promotion opportunities. Is it mostly based on time in or does your performance impact it as well?

With respect and thanks,

Andrew
(a proud R215)


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## willy (25 May 2004)

While I don‘t want you to lose any enthusiasm for the training you‘re about to undertake, I think you should know that despite the hype, Sig Ops are not the IT gurus that they are occasionally made out to be.  The standard training that Sig Ops receive is not focused on IT, at all.  For the most part, one has to get some specialty courses under one‘s belt to be employed in network administrator positions and the like.

Performance and merit are important when determining who gets promoted and who doesn‘t, but so is time in.  The CF is very focused on how much time you have in uniform, and we promote very slowly compared to our allies.  You‘ll get your promotion to Corporal after 4 years.  That‘s pretty much a given, unless you step on your dick really badly.  After that, promotion is very slow, and while you‘d technically be eligible for promotion to MCpl after 4 years as a Cpl, it isn‘t often that you would get it until 6 or 7 years after your promotion to Cpl.

Deployment frequency depends on what unit you get posted to.  The CFJSR, for example, is a unit that pretty much exists to support overseas deployments, and if you get posted there, you‘ll probably go every few years, or more.  Otherwise, it‘s hard to say.  Basically, once every 3 years sounds a bit high on average, but you will go more than most other trades.

I hope that answers your main questions.


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## Andyd513 (25 May 2004)

Thank you for the answers Willy. My interviewer and the Sgt that recruited me were upfront about network administration and such not being available until (much) higher ranks.

Still I quite like the job description   

Lots of decisions to make, but prolly put them off until after next summer and my 3‘s.


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## willy (25 May 2004)

If you want my advice, I‘d stick with the reserves for now, if I were you.  Finish your degree off, and get a few courses under your belt during the summers.  Once you have a little bit of experience with the military, you‘ll be able to make a more informed decision as to whether or not you want to join the reg force.  Unlike various other trades in the military, Sig Ops keep all their qualifications when they put in a component transfer to reg, and if you‘re QL5 qualified when you do, then you get a $20 000 signing bonus.  On the other hand, if by that point you‘ve decided that you don‘t want a military career, then your software engineering degree will put you in good stead anyway.


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## Andyd513 (25 May 2004)

That is quite useful information that I had never heard before willy!

Thanks, my intention was always to get my diploma in either software engineering or network administration before I would go reg.

I should hopefully be at least QL4 qualified by the time I am done my diploma.

By "keep all their qualifications" do you mean if I did a component transfer at QL5 I‘d only need to redo bmq/sq then whatever new qualifications are past that?


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## willy (25 May 2004)

No, I mean that you keep your 5‘s, etc, and you don‘t have to redo your BMQ either. (Unless it‘s a new thing since they changed basic training to the BMQ format).  

I‘ve known lots of people who have CT‘d to the regs.  One day they‘re a reservist, the next they‘re reg, and have a bigger bank account.  However, like I said, these people had been in for a much longer time than you, and things might have changed since the inception of BMQ/SQ.


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## Andyd513 (25 May 2004)

Thats interesting, know of any particular reason why Sigs are like that?

One of my friends doing his 3‘s atm is considerring a CT, so I may be able to let you know if he has to do BMQ/CAP on a transfer soon.


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## willy (25 May 2004)

Some reserve trades have QL3 courses that closely mirror those of their reg force counterparts.  Those trades don‘t have to redo that training because it would be redundant. 

Frankly, until recently, I never heard of anyone who had to redo basic on transfering, unless they had done a weekend warrior course.  I have a feeling it has to do with the BMQ/SQ system that is now in effect.  Ask the guys at the recruiting centre about it.


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## Pte. Bloggins (25 May 2004)

I can confirm that, a buddy of mine just transfered from reserves to reg and didn‘t have to redo BMQ and SQ.


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## themaskeduser (9 Jul 2004)

hmm i suggest checking out the dnd recruitment website it's got the info you need on thewhole entry plans that they offer


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## bossdog (10 Aug 2004)

Currently, there is a recruiting allowance of $10,000 for sig ops joining the reg force if they have a 2 year post secondary program in technology. The 5's crse does focus a lot in IT but that is not the bulk of your trg.

Myself, and this is only my experience, I was a network administrator as a no hook pte and even managed a Banyan \ NT migration. I am currently still heavily involved with all aspects of IT however, that is not my primary role.

The trade is changing, the demand for IT skills is increasing rapidly.


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## LCISTech227 (11 Aug 2004)

Hey, 
      First off, I hope that this post does not offend any Sig Ops.   But primarily if you are interested in electronics, Networking, Telephone systems and mild amounts of programming, you should be looking at being an LCIS Tech.   Our job scope is what you were talking about in the above posts.   Now, I'm not saying that you won't ever find a Sig Op doing these jobs, because they do.   But, if you want to focus on doing these things you should be an LCIS Tech.
      If you have any questions, email me or something, and I'll try to answer them... because I know when I did my component transfer the ppl at my recruiting centre were out to lunch.   They kept trying to get me to go Sig Op, instead of LCIS Tech.   Plus there are other bonuses to being an LCIS Tech.... Like Spec Pay.     Anyways just my 2 cents.

Cheers


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## 227representin (11 Aug 2004)

I have to agree with my counterpart.  There are SigOp 215's in the IT field, but it is a choice posting, not enjoyed by many.  LCIS is Land Communications & Information Services.  We cover voice / data (telephony), Small Systems Support (computers), Roll--outs and installation of new systems (where does it end).  If you are concerned about the civillain applications - they are too numerous to list.  It all depends on how you mould your career path, and the specialty courses you attend.  

If you do go LCIS, its a lot longer haul that most trades. 8 months POET, 6 Months LCIS apprentice and the PAT time between courses.  Be aware that LCIS (as well as ATIS, Comm Research, SigOp) are being considered for a minimum 5 yr engagment upon enrolment, rather than 3yrs for most of MOC's - largely because the front end training is so heavy, the forces aren't getting their money back, as many choose to go civy after 3 yrs with what they have learned


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## bossdog (12 Aug 2004)

> It all depends on how you mould your career path



I couldn't agree with this more!!! You are you're best career manager!


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## rdschultz (12 Aug 2004)

This might be a series of dumb questions, but what is the normal arrangement for a signals squadron and troop?  How many Sig Ops, or other positions are in such a troop and squadron?  Do the other trades (LCIS, ATIS, Comm Research) fit into this organization, or are they part of something else?  I think I know the basic answers to these, but I'm looking for more clarification and whatnot.

What led me to this question was the DFS Regt post in the Armoured thread.  It contains, as part of its hierarchy this entry:

Sigs Tp (1-3-11)
               LAV III
               LSVW x 5
               GRIZZLY IS MRT
               MLVW 

I guess I'm just curious what would make up the (1-3-11) (I assume those are number of pers., which could very well be mistaken).   Would this be a typical arrangment for a signals squadron in any situation (not including the vehicles, just the pers.), or is it specific to a certain attachment or whatever?


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## LCISTech227 (12 Aug 2004)

Hey,
I think that the size and formation of the sig tp/sqn are unit specific.   I work for 2 ASG Sig Sqn and I know for sure that it has a different setup then a typical sig sqn.   Let me look for a few things and see what I can find out.   If anything it'll probably be just a typical Orbat of sorts.

Cheers


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## bossdog (12 Aug 2004)

Hoser,

I think you're talking about vehicles within certain dets. Mr.LCIS is right, it is unit specific. It depends what the CO requires and what the unit is required to do within the military. For example, my unit is made of about 4 or 5 squadrons for which, each squadron will have 3 or 4 troops. Each troop will ideally have about 30 pers. Those 30 pers will be broken down in to dets which will each provide a unique roll contributing to the overall effectiveness of the unit and in turn, the CF.
A CP troop may have a handfull of ML and HLVW's to manage a transport the HQ while an MT or deployable LAN det will be mostly made up of LSVW's and an EW Sqn will have a dump load of bissons. 

To sum up, it all depends on where you go. No two places are really the same.


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## rdschultz (12 Aug 2004)

Ok, that makes sense.

I was just reading through the OSP for SIGS, and was curious about how everything was organized at/around the troop/squadron level.  It states how my first posting as a Signals Officer should be something like a troop commander for a brigade signal squadron.  I was just interested in figuring out how this fit into the whole squadron's picture, and how the troop looked.  

The number/type of vehicles I wasn't really concerned with, more the organization.  But I suppose the organization depends on the number/type of vehicles, depending on the task.


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## bossdog (13 Aug 2004)

As far as I know, most Sig O's start out as a troop commander but remember that everying is always subject to change.


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