# School Project about CF



## Grom_PL (2 Jan 2005)

I doing a heritage fair project about the CF and how there underfunded, underequip-ed, and outdated. My project is gonna talk about, the neglect of the liberals, how we can get up 2 par with our army if we can......... thats all i got now, If any1 can help with some info it would be greatly appreciated.


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## Baloo (2 Jan 2005)

Why not, instead of talking only about the "Liberal neglect", you talk about the general lack of empathy by the public? The government cares only as much as the people do. 

Defense site in general might be good start. "Who Killed the Canadian Military?" by Granatstein is also a good place to look.


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## Grom_PL (2 Jan 2005)

Thanx,for the info, and the suggestion, do u now any threads on this site that might be able 2 help me, I ll try 2 chech that book out from my loval library


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## SHARP WO (3 Jan 2005)

You could also watch the parliment channel, they show committees discussing the CF from time to time on a variety of subjects.

Sharp WO


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## Meridian (3 Jan 2005)

I wrote a paper for a polisci class basically emploring Canadians to wake up and smell the poop.
I approached the paper by approaching each of the fairly typical responses you get from the average joe canadian. "We dont need a military, healthcare is more important, etc).


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## Grom_PL (3 Jan 2005)

Thanx for the Info, I sure appreciated it, But i got a question, Did Pierre Trudeau actually try 2 take Canada out of NATO and NORAD, and when he could he screwed up CF pretty badly? I got this from the Sun and i want 2 verify if its is 100% true. Meridian u Polish?


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## Meridian (4 Jan 2005)

I'm not, no.


Don't know about the Trudeau stuff....  he doesn't speak much about the military in his memoirs, if that helps. Pretty much everyone has something negative to say about Trudeau in some manner.. the guy was pretty prolific


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## Edward Campbell (4 Jan 2005)

Without knowing the parameters of your _heritage_ project, I would caution against trying to _*prove a negative*_, i.e. CF are _â ?underfunded, underequip-ed, and outdatedâ ?_. (I would also watch grammar and spelling.)

It might be better, and certainly easier, I would think, to highlight what the CF *has done*, at home and abroad, over the past, say, decade, _despite_ the views of many experts and commentators (much stuff on line from e.g. Tom Axworthy, David Bercusson, Doug Bland, Lewis Mackenzie â â€œ to name just a very few who represent a variety of perspectives) to the effect that they are under-funded, under-staffed, poorly equipped, etc.


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## Grom_PL (4 Jan 2005)

Thanks for the insight, This project is getting bigger and bigger. With all this help im gonna have a huge porject. I defintly gonna make it to the regionol i hope. If i do, i credit u people who but a comment in this thread. I cant believe i learned so much just from this site.


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## Grom_PL (4 Jan 2005)

Tell me if im on the right track, The Canadian Army, Ill divide the project into 3 parts, the achievemetns of the canadian army, the politics/history of the canadian army, and lastly the current status of the army and how we need to improve on it. THis is all Cold war/post cold war era


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## Lexi (4 Jan 2005)

Coincidence,
I wanted to write about the CF last year for my Heritage Fair project.
I ended up doing it on the RHLI.

This year I want to do a project on the JTF2.
I was going to start a thread but I might as well write about it here.

Does anyone have links/book titles of sources of information?


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## Michael OLeary (4 Jan 2005)

Lexi said:
			
		

> This year I want to do a project on the JTF2.
> I was going to start a thread but I might as well write about it here.
> 
> Does anyone have links/book titles of sources of information?



Try the JTF-2 links in the Infantry FAQ  --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html


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## Grom_PL (4 Jan 2005)

Your doing a heritage fair project, what province, Try looking on google type JTF2, don't bother with the library last time i ask they had nothing about it, they also check the whole city of Hamilton nothing, the internet would be the best place to search, if your interested you can You can do the somailia incident, thats how our last SF got disbanded, my local libraries have lots of info bout that,


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## Grom_PL (4 Jan 2005)

Or u can search on this site like the other guy said


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## jarko (5 Jan 2005)

grom_pl, czy ty jestes Polak i piszesz z Polski??


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## Fusaki (5 Jan 2005)

I agree with Rusty Old Joint.

If you're trying to promote awareness and increase pride in the Canadian Forces, I suggest you stick to reporting achievements. Trying to prove how the current government is doing things wrong will put its supporters on the defensive when they read your paper. They'll put up their mental blocks and they'll poke holes in your arguments. Some people will argue until they're blue in the face and you'll never get your ideas across. But, if you point out CF accomplishments and give people a sense of pride they will be more receptive to new ideas and more inclined to support a more military-friendly government. 

There is no public controversy surrounding whether or not clearing mines is good for mankind, so you don't need to take as much time proving it. Instead, you can focus on bringing as many good things about the CF to light as possible. If, on the other hand, you talk about how bad things are in the government you'll be expected to back those claims up with a wealth of hard evidence. I'm not saying you can't do it, but for a school project you might be biting off more then you can chew. Remember, there is a due date so you'd might as well get the most bang for your buck.

It's all about maneuvering. By focusing on the good points as opposed to the bad, you're dodging all sorts of tiring and mostly ineffective controversy. By focusing on the good in the CF, you're getting maximum effect for your time and effort.


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## Grom_PL (5 Jan 2005)

Ja nie jestem polack, Ja tylko lubie mowicz po polsku, naprawde ja jestem Polack, i mam zadanie, i tuta pytem pytania bo mam "heritage fair". 
I nie ja nie piesem Po Polsku,


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## Grom_PL (5 Jan 2005)

Thank you, Thank you, guess, i do the achievements of the CF, and try to get the word out to a more-military friendly gouverment. Would adding why we need a good military be needed in my project 2.


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## Edward Campbell (5 Jan 2005)

Good show, Grom_PL.

The problem with saying the CF is under-funded, etc, etc is that you cannot prove it ... _"What missions or tasks,â ?_ someone will ask, _"has the CF been *unable* to perform due to inadequate funding?'_

Better to say:

"¢	Many respected commentators - from a variety of backgrounds - claim the CF is under-funded, ill equipped and over-extended; e.g. _____ _______, _____ _______, and ____ _______; but

"¢	The CF has, since 1989 (15 years), done the following *major* tasks at home and abroad; thus

"¢	Despite financial, equipment and staffing problems - which the Prime Minister and Defence Minister acknowledge (cite their statements in 2004) - the _*people*_ in the CF manage to get the job done; so

"¢	The CF could do even more, even better and faster if it had more money for equipment, people, training and logistics.


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## Blunt Object (5 Jan 2005)

I've heard from a Sgt Mjr. in the RCR that the CDN forces are some of the best armed platoons or sections in NATO or the UN. I've also read that in Afghanistan we use Mercadies Jeeps (which are "pimpin") the Canadian forces had the best mess food and soldiers from other armies kept trying to eat in the Cdn mess. I do agree with you that the Canadian Military has been jerked around and is grossly underfunded. 




            And now you know


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## RapidFire (6 Jan 2005)

Hello,

 I have an assignment I have to complete   for school, it's a written report on 2 careers that interest me and I've chosen the CF (Infantry) as one of them. Part of the report involves interviewing a present or past/retired persons from that career, either in person or online.

Since I don't personally know anyone in the CF I've decided to post here. So, if anyone on here is willing to participate that would be great. I'm looking for someone who is or has been in Infantry. It's 10 questions and I could do it in this thread if someone is willing.

Thanks in advance!


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## Grom_PL (6 Jan 2005)

I set up a poll to help me for my heritage fair project


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## Grom_PL (9 Jan 2005)

Just got question, is the intend of a AT mine to knock out a tank or immobilize it


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## Sheerin (9 Jan 2005)

Hey just some thoughts.

First of all, what type of project is this?  Are you doing an essay (and if so how many words/pages?), is it a poster presentation, or a presentation (if so how long does it have to be)?  
Your profile says you're 13, so I'm guessing you're in grade 8, am I correct?

Do you have a thesis statement, or an idea of one yet?


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## jswift872 (9 Jan 2005)

shoot, i read the poll wrong, I thought it said, "does canada have a large army" so I clicked no, but I do think we need one...so the numbers won't be right exactly..oops


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## Grom_PL (9 Jan 2005)

This project isnt a essay, or poster presentation it s something way bigger. We have to write a long long essay, and then present are info on a farelt large backdrop. It first starts at the school level, then you move on 2 regional, then provincial, then to the national, who wins that, has the best project in Canada. Its getting pretty hard for me, and me teacher whats a layout by tuesday, i got all this info, and its confusing. Can anyone help me narrow done my project topic 2 something that is managable, and that will be good enough to get to the finals. Regional, Provincial or National.


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## Sheerin (9 Jan 2005)

How long is this essay supposed to be?  I'm kinda curious as to what a 'long long essay' is.  Been a while since I was in grade 8    

Well, firstly, your topic is on the Canadian Forces, but what aspect are you focusing on?  To decide that, why don't lay done some of the ideas you've gotten from your research thus far?  
ie: are you going to discuss the CFs involvement in disaster relief (within Canada and abroad)?  Or perhaps Canadians commitment to Peacekeeping operations (both NATO and UN -  if you do that you could also look at Canada's involvement in Chapter 6 and Chapter 7 peacekeeping operations.  

Oh, one other question I forgot to ask earlier, this essay, is it argumentative or are you just going to lay down some facts?


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## Grom_PL (9 Jan 2005)

I dont know its not mention to us in the beginning. But the more the better my teacher says, and she says that argumentative topics usually go far in this "thing." but u can do fact things to. So i have been focusing on argumentive things. As i look back at it, the PeaceKeeping looks good, invloving both Nato and the UN. But how can i but some argumentive things in their. I already know that are forces are spread out way to much, "our politicians think that we dont need a full fledged fighting force because we are PEACEKEEPING" (Correct me if im Wrong). could i added any of these things in my project. Sry for my lack of INFO, thats all were told.


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## Art Johnson (10 Jan 2005)

Grom_PL said:
			
		

> Just got question, is the intend of a AT mine to knock out a tank or immobilize it



What is the difference? 
I recall that not long ago there was a discussion about a 6 pdr A/T gun being the first to knock out a Tiger in North Africa. Apparently the tank in question is in the museum at Bovington. The reply I received was that it was a lucky shot. Lucky shot my earhole, that is what we were taught to do. Aim for the space between the turret and the body of the tank. Failing that try and hit the track. It angers me when I hear how great the Germans were at knocking off our tanks and our guys get little or no credit at all for their feats.


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## Grom_PL (10 Jan 2005)

im not a soldiers or anything, check the royal canadian legion, u should get some help there for ur assignment.


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## RapidFire (10 Jan 2005)

Thanks! I'll try that...

Wow, 118 views and 1 reply!!!


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## Armymedic (10 Jan 2005)

Thats because there are alot of people who want to see what you have to say....

Sudbury has a Reserve infantry unit there. Try seeing one of the Snr NCOs from that unit.


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## RapidFire (10 Jan 2005)

Okay, thanks man. I'll go check it out or call or something.


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## Grom_PL (10 Jan 2005)

does any know Vices about peacekeeping in canada canada, or Nato or the UN


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## Trev (15 Jan 2005)

Hey,

Not sure if this is the somalia incident as I don't remember the specifics.

<MODERATER EDIT:  IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE ALLEGATIONS LIKE THAT, WE EXPECT TO SEE SOME PROOF.>


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## sharp shooter (18 Jan 2005)

I like your topic and i'm ready to help you if i can.

Why not compare against others

If your really stuck i posted a chain.

Look for " Does the Canadian army need more funding"


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