# Canadian military motorcycles



## Posthumane (30 Jan 2006)

Hello all,
I was recenlty reading about Germany's extensive use of motorcycles during WWII, and I got to thinking about motorcycles in the canadian military. I know we used to have CanAm's and Armstrong/HD's a while ago, and eventually got the KLR 250 as well. Were these just used for dispatch riding, or was there any other purpose to having these? Are there still motorcycles in use in the CF?

Do motorcycles have a place on the modern battleground? I know the US Marines have a diesel version of the KLR replacing their KLR650's. What do they use them for? Surely dispatch riding is no longer needed, so what other roles do they fill? Could motorcycles be used in a light recce role for example, or perhaps for quick transport of sniper teams? The CF does use ATV's, but those are quite limited in their capability due to their size/speed and not being really streetable, though I guess they have an advantage over motorbikes in not requiring much (any?) operator training.

So what do you all think? Can/should motorcycles be used by the CF, and if so, for what?


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## 3rd Horseman (30 Jan 2006)

I would think that there will always be a place for the DR motorbike. On the issue of RECCE we used mountain bikes to assist our recce tasks in CFE, kinda funny to see an APC with mountain bike strapped to the back of it. Worked out well though I found them real usful to get around behind EN lines as the APC was too noisy.


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## GO!!! (31 Jan 2006)

posthumane,

ATVs are already used quite extensively by certain units, and they are far better than dirt bikes for a few reasons;

1) Payload - rucksack and a few days water/rations on a dirt bike?
2) Terrain - you can go places on a bike that you can't on a quad - but you are going without much kit.
3) Noise - quads are quiet when driving - 250cc dirt bikes - not so much
4) Use when hurt - casualty tpt - try driving a db with a broken ankle, or strapping your bleeding FT partner to it.

Polaris already makes a military variant, and ATVs like the JD Gator, the Gecko, and the Argo are already in use by the CF and other militaries.

http://www.atvconnection.com/atvconnection/Features/atvreviews/2005_Polaris_MV700.cfm


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## 3rd Herd (31 Jan 2006)

In 1978 when Vietnam invaded Cambodia one of the field expedient methods of countering the Vietnamese armor was the motorcycle. Small cc dirt bikes primarily Yamahas were equipped with two RPG reload packs strapped to either side of the front wheel. The RPG gunner sat behind the driver. Although the Vietnamese over ran the country very quickly the majority of their tank losses occurred to these motorcycle tank hunter teams.


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## Armymatters (31 Jan 2006)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> In 1978 when Vietnam invaded Cambodia one of the field expedient methods of countering the Vietnamese armor was the motorcycle. Small cc dirt bikes primarily Yamahas were equipped with two RPG reload packs strapped to either side of the front wheel. The RPG gunner sat behind the driver. Although the Vietnamese over ran the country very quickly the majority of their tank losses occurred to these motorcycle tank hunter teams.



Just like in Chad in 1987... the Libyans invaded Chad in 1987, and the rebels in Chad fixed recoiless rifles and other weaponry into the beds of Toyota pickup trucks, and were able to utterly destroy a Libyan tank division, and invade Libya itself.


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## Fishbone Jones (1 Feb 2006)

Armymatters said:
			
		

> Just like in Chad in 1987... the Libyans invaded Chad in 1987, and the rebels in Chad fixed recoiless rifles and other weaponry into the beds of Toyota pickup trucks, and were able to utterly destroy a Libyan tank division, and invade Libya itself.



So when you were there, you saw these in action? Can you confirm these were the sole reason for the utter destruction of the Division? Melodramatics are for the people that experienced it in real time. Or maybe you could preface your statement with someting like "According to an article, in "XXXXXX", a well known military journal, or, According to Mr. YYYYY, who was a correspondant in the theatre during this time".


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## Dissident (1 Feb 2006)

The museum at the Sherman Armouries in RIchmond has a display case with a Triumph, showing it as a MP bike during WWII.


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## axeman (1 Feb 2006)

Ive seen M,C's being used every now and then in the DR role and  they were the kawasakis, if you go to the 1 SVC Bn head shed they have a old Can Am on display ..


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## Posthumane (8 Feb 2006)

Thx for the replies guys. GO!!, good points about the advantages of ATV's over dirt bikes. For most applications in the army, ATV's are indeed better suited, thought I think there are a few very small roles which can be filled by a motorbike.

The mountain bike strapped to the side of an armoured vehicle is an interesting idea. Did you guys use any sort of "militarized" bike (ie, the marine corps folding jump bike), or just a regular off the shelf mtn bike?


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## Caleix (10 Feb 2006)

I have my own dirkbike. I've been riding since I've been a wee little fella and i think its a great idea, but the training for people on how to ride one could be costly for the military. Then again, it's like riding a bicycle, once you get it you never forget.


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## 3rd Herd (10 Feb 2006)

axeman said:
			
		

> Ive seen M,C's being used every now and then in the DR role and  they were the Kawasaki's, if you go to the 1 SVC Bn head shed they have a old Can Am on display ..


The new army rides the quacker the old army rode that Can Am. The Bn had a course run at the gravel pit out in Langford. If I remember correctly only four of us had it added to our 404's. Other than training the only time I can remember them being actually used was in Wainwright in 1982. The rest of the time they spent their days up in their Maintenance hanger awaiting parts through the DND system. We kind of got miffed as parts were in stock and available out in Sooke.


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## Servicepub (12 Feb 2006)

I am looking for photographs of the motorcycle in Canadian Army or CF use, as wel as photos or scans of any M/C school/course patches, etc... for use in an upcoming book on the Canadian military Motorcycle. PM me for my e-mail addy. All photos credited in the book.

Thnx,
www.servicepub.com


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## Wookilar (5 Mar 2006)

I know the Kawi's were removed from 1 PPCLI about 3-4 years ago. No longer used as dispatch riders, we were told. All right with us in the Components Shop (the Skandic SWT sleds were taking all our time anyway). Haven't heard of anymore courses being run either. Used to be done in the sand dunes of Borden by the CFSAL truckers (I don't know either). The casualties from that course were quite high, could be a possible reason for it. Have a good buddy of mine who is now stuck in (st)range control because of a broken back from that one.
Official response was that we would be getting quads to replace the bikes. Didn't have them by last spring when I left.


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## Timberwolfe (13 Mar 2006)

I know that they scraped all of the motorcycles here in Borden. But when I was at a US airforce base in Quatar. They had a bunch of brand new BMW 650 cc dirt bikes in arid camo. They looked sweet


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Mar 2006)

Caleix said:
			
		

> I have my own dirkbike. I've been riding since I've been a wee little fella and i think its a great idea, but the training for people on how to ride one could be costly for the military. Then again, it's like riding a bicycle, once you get it you never forget.



During WW II motorcycle training was mandatory for all officers from 2nd Lt to Brigadier.  After the BEF lost the majority of its staff cars in France in 1940, the British Army thought that M/Cs would be a much more efficient method of transport.  Officers up to Major (I think) had to be able to drive, colonels and brigadiers had to be able to ride pillion.


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## GOF (27 Mar 2006)

For what it's worth, my father was a DR in the RCSC in WW2.  His first bike was a Brit piece of trash called a J.A.P. .. what ever it was.  The DR's were told they would not be issued a new Harley until their old bike were no loner repairable.  Well to make this a short story, he had an unfortunate incident with his bike.  Seems some truck driver "accidentally" backed over it one day.  He was then issued a Harley which he loved until his accident in Holland, and he broke his ankle, and the war ended before he healed.  From what I remember, he had nothing but praise for the Harley.


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