# Tactics used today that were devised by Canadian soldiers



## SteelMag (29 Apr 2004)

It may surprise some of you but the Canadian army coined some very useful methods of whupping ***!

We were the first to use the walking artillery barrage at Vimy Ridge.

And we were the first to use heavy machine guns in an indirect fire role!

thats all i can remember at the moment so lets discuss the various Canadian methods and devices that our allies use today!


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## GregC (30 Apr 2004)

I‘m not sure if it‘s used today....but Canadians invented mouseholing in the urban combat at Ortona in WWII.


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## stukirkpatrick (30 Apr 2004)

You can see in the news stories that the Americans are using mouse-holing techniques in deep city fighting (ie Fallujah).


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## DeepThaut (30 Apr 2004)

Please pardon my lack of knowlege of military tactics but what exactly is mouseholding? Thanks!   

-Nordwind


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## stukirkpatrick (30 Apr 2004)

Its when you blow/smash a hole through the wall of a house in order to get to the house beside it without going ‘outside‘.

If you read up on the Ortona street fighting, it got ‘really‘ nasty, with the Canadians and German paratroopers boobytrapping entire houses and waiting until large groups of the enemy entered them...

-edit- mouseholing can also be through walls and floors to get from room to room within a single house.


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## DeepThaut (30 Apr 2004)

Ohhh... thanks for clearing that up! Sounds effective to me. Ya I watched a documentary of Ortona a while back and it appeared like a bitter fight. Made me really proud to be canadian    

-Nordwind


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## jrhume (30 Apr 2004)

"Mouseholing" is a technique spontaneously developed by troops engaged in house-to-house fighting throughout the 20th century and probably back into the 19th.  Infantrymen engaged in urban combat have a powerful incentive to figure out ways to avoid concentrations of enemy fire.  Soviet soldiers used a similar technique in Stalingrad and elsewhere.  Their German adversaries picked up the method in the usual way -- by being the victim of it‘s application.

Only in the last twenty years or so has the technique been taught to troops BEFORE they get caught up in urban combat.  Canada may have made it part of regular training long ago, but I know the US military has taught it only to elite forces until recently.

Jim


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## Danjanou (30 Apr 2004)

Vimy, well actually the prep and lead up to it, also saw a few more "innovations" that we now take for granted.

Effective counter battery fire by the Arty including determing exactly where the enemy‘s guns were with various sound and flash measurement techniques so as to knock them out immediately, or almost immediately.

A study of the effects of weather on indirect fire to make it more accurate.

Fire and Movement within section and platoons as opposed to the old "stand up and walk into the machine gun fire chaps."

Improved comms including having the sigs tuypes move up with the troops to maintain comms, and signal panels that could be seen by aircraft. 

Improvised logistic ideas that ensured a steady stream of bullets, beans etc. were moved forward as the battle progressed. (Nothing worse than taking the bloody objective and them being forced to abandon it a couple of hours later because you‘ve run out of ammo and have to withdraw.)

The idea of issuing maps with the objective listed on it down to the section level and having everyone in the section/platoon attend orders groups and be fully briefed on the mission, and what they were supposed to do, not just the senior ranks.

Rehearsals of everything, including having the troops know not only their own jobs but those of others so they could take over in the event of casualties.

Having soldiers, NCO, and officers learn the job/role of those above them so that Pl Comds could take ove the company, Section Comds could take over the platoon, and riflemen take over the section if needed in the event of casualties.

Seems like SOPs now, but at the time they were some pretty radical concepts.


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## wongskc (30 Apr 2004)

Canadians developed the machine gun tracer bullet if I recall correctly and in the First World War developed effective gas/anti-gas doctorine.

If you want to get really specific, mouseholing was developed by the Loyal Edmonton Regiment during Ortona.


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## tabernac (30 Apr 2004)

In Ortona, the platons, etc. would go up the stairs in an apartment block, clear the rooms, get to the highest room in the building, smash the adjoining wall, then descend through the other side of the  building. They would catch the German MG-42 gunners unawares. Some veterans credit mouseholing with defeating the Germans.


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## Michael Dorosh (1 May 2004)

> Originally posted by wongskc:
> [qb] Canadians developed the machine gun tracer bullet if I recall correctly and in the First World War developed effective gas/anti-gas doctorine.
> 
> If you want to get really specific, mouseholing was developed by the Loyal Edmonton Regiment during Ortona. [/qb]


No it wasn‘t; it was taught in British battle schools, where officers of the Edmontons picked up the technique.

Likewise, The Calgary Highlanders taught Battle Drill to the entire Canadian Army, but they got it from the British 47th Division.


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## Spr.Earl (1 May 2004)

> Originally posted by S_Baker:
> [qb] Too bad there isn‘t some CDN infantry there to help the Marines perfect their technique     [/qb]


I would not call it technique but adapting from a Combat Mode to a Peace Keeping Mode and winning the hearts and minds.


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## Colin Parkinson (2 Jun 2004)

Apparently the guy who invented the Robertson screw tried to interest the British High Command in tracer bullets for AA fire, they wern't interested, I don't think they had tracers for their HMG - 2 pdr Pom Pom till early WWII.


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## Michael Dorosh (2 Jun 2004)

Don't know how Canadian tracers worked, but the best US fighter groups found that removing the tracers from their .50 calibre machineguns improved their scores - the ballistics of the tracers were different than for the ball or AP ammo that was intended to damage the target.


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## Yard Ape (2 Jun 2004)

We did some pioneering in acoustic artillery locating (Vimy) and supporting counter-battery operations.

Priest Kangaroos were the first true APCs (but not the first purpose built APCs, which came later) and were employed by Canadians shortly after D-Day.   These were later replaced by Ram Kangaroo (based on the Canadian Ram   tank) and this inspired the Sherman Kangaroo (possibly seen in Italy and an interim vehicle adopted by some countries after the War).   You can still see this concept in Isreali Centurion & T-55 based APCs. (search for Operation Tractable)


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## George Wallace (2 Jun 2004)

For all the Signallers out there.  Canada was the first country to create a Signals Corps.  Our Signals Corps is senior to the Royal Corps of Signals.  The Brits just hate that.

GW


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## ex royal now flyer (10 Jun 2004)

In response to the first string.  The creeping barrage was actually devised and used in Courcellette during the final stages of the Somme offensive.  The entire Somme offensive was a total debuacle and allied commanders had to convince Gen Haig that tactics used during the Crimean war (ie the charge of the light brigade) although dash, daring, and romantic, were no match for German machine guns.  The first wave troops who went over the top at the Somme where cut down (Newfoundland Regiment for one) before getting to the German trenches.  Those in the second and third waves who made it to the trenches found that German wire was not cut and that the German troops took cover during the artillery barrage but were back manning their guns in the time it took the allies to advance.  Though the war of attrition at the Somme did signal the end of the German army, allied commanders finally realized tactics had to change. 

Thus, some new innovation was required.  The Canadians did develop the concept at Courcellette.  It was not an automatic sell as British commanders did not like ideas from "colonists".  Also, many soldiers were killed when they got too close, shells fell short, or just bad luck.  However, the success at Courcellette proved to the commanders that the creeping barrage was effective and did become SOP for the remainder of the war.  

The workups for Vimy Ridge also demostrated the usefulness of rehearsals.  Months of training paid off for the Canadians as everyone man in the four divisions knew exactly what and where he should be and when.  Getting there through the mud and dodging MG was another story but the orchestration of the offensive was its success (not to mention the courage of the men).

It was Andrew McNaughton who developed the anti-artillery techniques.  He was an engineer from McGill University who used sound waves and muzzle flashes to determine ranges of German artillery.  There are several biographies on McNaughton and are worth reading.  

Canadian innovation - absolutely.


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## luck881 (10 Jun 2004)

Regarding the Signals corps, Canada was actually the first COMMONWEALTH country to have one.  The Confederate and Union armies organized theirs during the civil war, which predates Col Carruthers' organization by more than 40 years. 

 ...But we still beat the brits to it!!

Ref: http://www.asc.army.mil/about/timeline/frame_timeline.htm


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