# CP Gear OTW Shirt. Review?



## Eric_911 (14 Dec 2008)

Hey All...

Just wondering if someone can post a review on the CP Gear OTW Shirt? This review could definately be of use to the boys deploying.

http://www.cpgear.com/default.asp?mn=1.19.56&f=pd&pid=604

I figure the shirt has been around for a while, it's seen 2-3 roto's overseas... Are they worth $129.50 each? Should dudes be dumping $400.00+ on these prior to deployment? 

How did they hold up? Specifically, any comments on the Zippers, Pockets, Velcro, Wrist closures, Collar.... The driFire material: Did it end up pilling a lot? Did they feel any cooler then the issue shirt under the frag vest? Would these shirts actually survive more then 6-7 months of regular wear?

Thanks,
Eric


----------



## George Wallace (14 Dec 2008)

I hope it isn't the same shirt that has now been banned from wear, due to "Flame retardant" regulations that have been discussed on the site quite thoroughly previously.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (14 Dec 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I hope it isn't the same shirt that has now been banned from wear, due to "Flame retardant" regulations that have been discussed on the site quite thoroughly previously.



Maybe Matt will fill us in?


----------



## Eric_911 (14 Dec 2008)

I believe that's Underarmor you're referring to George. It melts.


----------



## Cleared Hot (14 Dec 2008)

Far be it for me to ever recommend non-issue kit because if it was needed they would issue it right?  :  That being said, the current combat shirt is a terrible design... pockets that are useless once you put a Tac Vest on (oh wait, the buttons do make great pressure points for those that like to give themselves that extra dose of c**k).  They get wet fast and dry slowly, they are hot and heavy etc. etc.  To minimize this even just a little, many people started wearing their body armour under the shirts (esp. those that had non-issue web belts vice vests).  I should point out however, that on 1-08 there was at least one unit that put a stop to this practice because if you found yourself in deep water you could not get your shirt unbuttoned fast enough to get your armour off thus increasing the risk of drowning.

So, enter the OTW Shirt.  A great design - it's lightweight, quick drying and cool, it's flash resistant/melt-proof shirt that has no pressure points under your gear - it is like wearing another T-shirt.  Now let's be honest, you're going to Afghanistan. You are going to be hot and even the best moisture-wicking fabric in the world will be hindered by a frag vest and plates. This shirt however, does keep you as cool as realistically possible and more importantly as comfortable as possible.

As for the quality, it is very good and very durable.  You shouldn't have a problem with any of the its component parts.  If you have two shirts and only wear them on patrols and road moves you should have no problems over a 7 month tour.  Due to the high cost, most people I knew bought one to try and quickly found they wish they had bought two. 

In the end, are they worth it?  Make no mistake, at $130 I am sure CP Gear is making a pretty penny on each shirt but this is exactly what we should be wearing over there and there is a reason most other armies have a variant of this shirt.  Taking a [poorly designed] shirt designed to be worn all year round in North America / Europe and "painting" it tan does not make it suitable for use in a desert.  So in the end, if one will be operating OTW and is on a limited budget, I would recommend in priority (1) good boots (2) OTW shirts.

I don't have anything negative to say about them so if you have specific questions ask.  Hope this helps a little.

One caveat in closing - obviously you are all big boys who know your CoC's direction with regard to non-issue kit.  I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Matt_Fisher (15 Dec 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I hope it isn't the same shirt that has now been banned from wear, due to "Flame retardant" regulations that have been discussed on the site quite thoroughly previously.



George,  the OTW shirt uses a modacrylic fabric called driFIRE which is inherently 'no-melt/no-drip' unlike polyester/lycra based fabrics such as are used on UnderArmour, Elite Issue, etc which I believe are what you're referring to.


----------



## George Wallace (15 Dec 2008)

Thanks Matt


----------



## Bzzliteyr (15 Dec 2008)

I got one of the first ones made and put out back at the beginning of the year.  I was a veh commander and myself and my driver both wore the shirt with only my authority (neener neener).  We got no flak from my chain of command and I emphasied to my young trooper that he was NOT to flaunt what he was wearing.

In all, both of us were very comfortable with the shirts.  I had issues with the arm pockets but it seems arm pockets in general are a hit or miss add on.

I very much enjoyed the use of the shirt and appreciate that CPgear has created it.  Hopefully the Army can take a cue and make something of their own so the troops can be comfortable overseas.


----------



## ModlrMike (15 Dec 2008)

Last fall, when LGen Semianow was in country, he hinted that the CF would be seriously interested in introducing this kit. FWTW.


----------



## Sig_Des (15 Dec 2008)

I've got two of these types of shirts, one the CP Gear OTW, the other the ICE Tactical Direct Action Shirt.

Very similar, some differences. Will come up with something more after some use in Theatre.


----------



## OldSolduer (15 Dec 2008)

I'd be willing to part with $300 IF I ever get over there. Sounds good to me!!


----------



## PhilB (16 Dec 2008)

I used two of these on 1-08 and I can say unequivocally that they are worth the money. They are much more comfortable underneath armour as it is slick. You feel a tad bit cooler, but when you are humping and it is almost 60C there is only so much that you can do! Quality wise, they are definitely good to go. We were in the COP's for the majority of our tour and as such I didnt ever wear a combat shirt. 3 of my 4 issued combat shirts were never used. I used the two OTW's the entire tour and they are still going strong. No issues with piling. The only two complaints that I have with the shirt are 1) the cp gear label is on the inside seam on the side. It really itches, just cut it out. and finally 2) the fact that the pockets are zippered and not angled makes it a bit of a pain to get your smokes out, this is a minor annoyance though. I would definitely recommend the shirt to anyone deploying.


----------



## AmmoTech90 (16 Dec 2008)

I had one of these, and alongside a Brit UBACS.  Pretty much the same performance, the UBACS was more comfortable due to the padding (minor point) and the fact that the CP one's arm pockets rubbed spots on arm raw from exposed stitching after a days walking with it.  That was solved with some small gun tape patches over the offending spots.  The UBACS arm pocket were also easier to access.
Overall a very good piece of kit that will be excellent with a bit of tweaking.  My CP one is heading back over there in Feb with a friend.
Matt, did you ever get the UBACS I sent or the other package?


----------



## Matt_Fisher (16 Dec 2008)

I did receive the UBACS.  Thanks!

I appreciate the feedback both good and bad regarding the OTW shirts.  We've had mixed reviews about the arm pockets; some guys like the zippered design, whereas others want a more angled, flapped pocket.


----------



## PhilB (16 Dec 2008)

I think, it really depends on what you are keeping in there. A LOT of guys in my platoon used OTW shirts. Those that just carried a nine line, note book, paper etc had no issues with the pockets. It was us ( well not anymore as of 30-Nov! ;D ) smokers that had an issue. When you are continually trying to reach across your rig with gloves on trying to get your smokes out it can be a pain. Flapped, angled pocket are much much easily accessible, which is important when you are niccing out!


----------



## NL_engineer (16 Dec 2008)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> I did receive the UBACS.  Thanks!
> 
> I appreciate the feedback both good and bad regarding the OTW shirts.  We've had mixed reviews about the arm pockets; some guys like the zippered design, whereas others want a more angled, flapped pocket.



Matt, are you looking at doing an other version with flapped pockets?


----------



## Matt_Fisher (16 Dec 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Matt, are you looking at doing an other version with flapped pockets?



It's something we're considering.


----------



## NL_engineer (16 Dec 2008)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> It's something we're considering.



Would the first prototypes be done in/around March, that I'll buy one of each  ;D


----------



## Bzzliteyr (16 Dec 2008)

If anyone is looking for a size small tan, I have one that I won't be needing for at least a year or two.. I can part with it for a couple of bucks..


----------



## trencher (22 Jan 2009)

Interesting review on this. can someone post pics of it ? The DIN wont show pics


----------



## Eric_911 (22 Jan 2009)

CP Gear OTW:







ICE Tactical Direct Action:


----------



## Sig_Des (23 Jan 2009)

I actually do have one of each sitting right here. Now, to clarify, these haven't seen the light of Afghan sun yet.

That being said, the ICE shirt is somewhat different than pictured above, Hobey's changed it. The Mandarin collar is gone, now just the zippered closure, though he has a small pull-cord on the tab, something the CP shirt does not. The ICE shirt also no longer has the nametape Velcro.

Both are made with the dri-fire material.

The ICE shirt's pockets, I found a little easier to open and close, and to slide my smokes in and out.

The ICE shirt also has penslots on the lower arm of the sleeves, 2 slots per sleeve. Also has a velcro-sealed pocket on the elbows to slide in padding should you wish.

I like both shirts, but to me, for the difference in price, I prefer the ICE shirt.


----------



## trencher (23 Jan 2009)

I like the look of both, but the ICE looks a bit more CF .

I wish cp gear would take better pics of there stuff  ;D

But other then that i will be going on tour and I will be thinking of getting

1 or 2 of these shirts. I will not be leaving the camp much in my trade so should do.


----------



## Sig_Des (24 Jan 2009)

If anyone thinks this warrant's it's own thread, that works, but here's a bit of a comparison between the two shirts.

CP Gear OTW





ICE DA





Both shirts similar, CP Gear uses DriFIRE material for the torso, ICE is a High Performance FR Polyester (not sure of name brand). Both use authentic CadPat.

Collar:

OTW





DA





Not much difference on the two collars, though you can notice that the DA's zipper goes a little lower, and has a dummy cord loop on the zipper. The collar on the OTW is snugger to the neck when completely closed.

Cuffs:

OTW





DA





Once again, not a huge difference, the velrco tabs are different, but nothing big.

Sleeve Pockets:

OTW





DA





Here's a little bit of difference. Velcro patch on the OTW is a lot bigger than on the DA shirt, although the DA shirt isn't lacking.

As far as the pockets, I find the DA's easier to get into because of A)the dummy cord loop, and B) the opening has less of a pleat covering the zipper, making access easier, and allowing a little more opening.

No big difference in carrying capacity between the two (you shouldn't be jamming too much stuff in there anyway).


Now, here are some features that are only found in the ICE DA shirt;

Reinforced elbows have Velcro closed slots for foam pads:






Pen slots on both sleeves (2 per):







Once again, these haven't been worn overseas yet (getting packed into my AB right now), and these are initial impressions from trying out and wearing with my full battle-rattle.

Both shirts wear very comfortably (OTW a little more comfortable out of the bag due to the driFIRE material, but not noticeably more than the DA shirt after some wear) under Body Armour.

I like that the DA shirt has dummy cord loops on all zippers (an obviously easy do-it-yourself fix you can perform on the OTW).


Price difference between the two is about 30$ Can. I'm not going to tout either over the other, but as I said, for the price, and the extra little features, I personally lean towards the ICE DA shirt. (I will wear both)


----------



## Eric_911 (25 Jan 2009)

Thanks for the review BW! Great info and pics


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (25 Jan 2009)

Seems ICE shows prices in USD. At US$95, with the current exchange rate this come to $117 Canadian. Not much of a price diff after all. Not sure what ICE's shipping cost is, but if it is anything more than CPGear's $8.00, then the difference becomes even less so.


----------



## NL_engineer (25 Jan 2009)

Matt, how much would it cost to have arm pen pockets like the US Army's ACU's put on the OTW?


----------



## Matt_Fisher (26 Jan 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Matt, how much would it cost to have arm pen pockets like the US Army's ACU's put on the OTW?



Contact me via pm or offline to discuss.

Cheers,

Matt


----------



## NL_engineer (26 Jan 2009)

I'll talk to you next time I drop by the store  8).

Is the second generation out yet, or when is its ETA?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (26 Jan 2009)

KIT SLUT .....


 ;D

j/k


----------



## OldSolduer (27 Jan 2009)

Question.

Has anyone put forward a suggestion to the kit guys (I forget the acronymn - is it DLR?) to trial this? Just wondering.


----------



## Ecco (27 Jan 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Question.
> 
> Has anyone put forward a suggestion to the kit guys (I forget the acronymn - is it DLR?) to trial this? Just wondering.



The first time it was recommended in Lessons Learned or by UCR etc...  is by 322eR recce platoon when they got back.  Assume 1 to 2 years from initial request to the kit is in soldiers hand, if there is support and everything goes according to plan.  That period of time is actually very short, all things considered.  Expenditure authority has been given, the design is mostly frozen, the hybrid shirt is now in pre-contracting phase.  Definitly not for TF 1-09, MAYBE for TF3-09, most likely for TF1-10.


----------



## COBRA-6 (27 Jan 2009)

Ecco said:
			
		

> The first time it was recommended in Lessons Learned or by UCR etc...  is by 322eR recce platoon when they got back.  Assume 1 to 2 years from initial request to the kit is in soldiers hand, if there is support and everything goes according to plan.  That period of time is actually very short, all things considered.  Expenditure authority has been given, the design is mostly frozen, the hybrid shirt is now in pre-contracting phase.  Definitly not for TF 1-09, MAYBE for TF3-09, most likely for TF1-10.



Good to hear Ecco, PM inbound.


----------



## OldSolduer (27 Jan 2009)

Ecco said:
			
		

> The first time it was recommended in Lessons Learned or by UCR etc...  is by 322eR recce platoon when they got back.  Assume 1 to 2 years from initial request to the kit is in soldiers hand, if there is support and everything goes according to plan.  That period of time is actually very short, all things considered.  Expenditure authority has been given, the design is mostly frozen, the hybrid shirt is now in pre-contracting phase.  Definitly not for TF 1-09, MAYBE for TF3-09, most likely for TF1-10.



Excellent!!


----------



## Matt_Fisher (27 Jan 2009)

Ecco said:
			
		

> The first time it was recommended in Lessons Learned or by UCR etc...  is by 322eR recce platoon when they got back.  Assume 1 to 2 years from initial request to the kit is in soldiers hand, if there is support and everything goes according to plan.  That period of time is actually very short, all things considered.  Expenditure authority has been given, the design is mostly frozen, the hybrid shirt is now in pre-contracting phase.  Definitly not for TF 1-09, MAYBE for TF3-09, most likely for TF1-10.



Any word whether it's using FR CADPAT material, or the current combat cloth?


----------



## Ecco (27 Jan 2009)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> Any word whether it's using FR CADPAT material, or the current combat cloth?



Short answer:

No, it won't use normal combat cloth, yes, it will use FR material.

Long(er) answer:

FR is pretty much an over-hyped marketing scheme if it's not explained and defined correctly.  The typical cadpat combat cloth is FR.  It contains synthetic material, therefore it will eventually burn (like everything else), however, it has to pass rigorous burning tests, where it has to pass soldier requirements as defined by extensive medical research and too often re-validated by the CASPEAN project.  There are a zillion different way to apply flame/flash, in terms of strength and or duration, and there is even more ways to define success and failure of the material.  Most ANSI standards are industry-oriented or fabric-oriented (they define failure as chars or self-combustion).  The DND tests are user-oriented (they define failures as the soldiers getting hurt:  I could not care less if my uniform has chars if my skin is okay after a flash).  Furthermore, burn testing of a FR uniform should be done at the system-level, not at the fabric level.

The current issue combat material meets well defined soldier requirements in terms of FR and those requirements are re-validated regularly.  The Hybrid shirt will have better FR material because we can afford it (in this case "afford" is not related to money but to engineering trade-offs).  New materials offer higher levels of FR while maintaining the same required characteristics in terms of breathability, vapour transmission, camouflage performance, and feel to the touch, amongst other things.


----------



## Matt_Fisher (28 Jan 2009)

Ecco,

Thanks for the update.  Will there also be a set of new trousers in addition to the Hybrid Shirt?  Is this an interim solution to the Future Combat Uniform (FCU) project, or part of FCU itself?

Cheers,

Matt


----------



## deh (28 Mar 2009)

Thought I would revive this rather than start a new thread.

I was hoping to add my initial impressions of this shirt which was recently purchased.  So far it has just been walked around the house and some minor calaesthetics with my frag vest and cement plates.

What I like;

Overall I am very impressed with the general quality of workmanship and the thought that went into this item.  All the stitching is top notch and all the seams are placed in areas where they will do the least amount of damage with weight on them.  The vest is much more comfortable with out two layers of slip on, rank tab, four layers of storm flap (made of something that doesn't block wind and absorbs water) buttons and t-shirt pressing on my sternum.  Especially clever is the design of the back and shoulders where the cadpat meets the drifire.  It manages to skirt the frag vest without showing itself and being very comfortable.    

The collar is a tad high for my liking, as my beard hair tends to get caught and pulled in it when it is done all the way up.  This is nothing new and a minor comfort point I imagine most people won't have a problem with.  The actual layout is fantastic.  I have always thought it silly we have a dress shirt collar on a silly looking cadpat shirt with weird bellowed angled pockets.  It is so outdated and out of place that the mandarin style collar almost seems too logical.  I love it.

The arms are well thought out, I didn't realise how much I had come to like the sleeve pockets I had overseas until I returned to Canada and starting looking for a place to put a camera with my armour on.  The zippers are well sewn in and i prefer them to the Velcro flap thing we had to settle for in theatre.  The cuff looks good and is functional, reinforced elbows are pretty much standard but I appreciate them all the same.

Not much to be said about the body, it is what it is, basically a heavy weight t-shirt that is incredibly comfortable and supposedly won't melt to my skin.  There are enough reviews of drifire kicking around I won't kick a dead horse.  Especially nice is the cut out that takes the more comfortable drifire material into the arm pits.

What I am not so crazy about;

I find the collar to be rather large in diameter in relation to the size of the garment.  As in, the neck hole is too large.  I am not a huge fan of having anything tight to my throat but there is so much extra room between my neck and the fabric it looks a bit off and it bunches up when my armour shifts on my body.

A little Velcro is good, more is not always better.  Anything more than a 4x5in patch I find to be overkill. You can fit about 9 large IR flags on what is there.  I actually cut it off, as it covers the entire upper arm area and am going to hunt around for someone to sew half what I cut off back on.  It is stiff and actually deforms the sleeve.     

The pockets themselves are large and the zipper is quite recessed.  Again this deforms the sleeve slightly but should soften up with use and washing.

My biggest gripe (and it is a minor one to be honest) is the amount of material in the sleeve.  The diameter before the Velcro is closed would not look out of place on a big cadpat wizards robe.  Once the cuff is tightened the problem goes away except there is a lot of material bunched up on the forearm.  I am unsure of the logic of having such a wide sleeve as I can't imagine wearing anything very bulky underneath this item.  

I don't want to give the impression that I am in any way dissatisfied with this bit o kit.  Compared to what it is replacing it is lightyears ahead.  My only real (again very minor) problems have a bit more to do with the fit to my odd shaped body more than anything else.

More to follow if my experience in the field warrants it. Matt, could you PM me a price to have a different bit of Velcro sewn on the sleeve pocket?  I promise to buy a second one!


----------



## PhilB (29 Mar 2009)

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents on the wide sleeve. Using it in the desert the wide sleeve was great. I put 2 rolls into the sleeve (bringing it to about mid forearm) and the width helped to ventilate.


----------



## NL_engineer (10 May 2009)

Well I got to wear it once, and I love it.  Too bad I can't wear it again due to the COC thinking that it burns at a lower tempture then cotton :  But non issued rigs are a go  ;D, so I can't bitch about it  :


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (20 May 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Well I got to wear it once, and I love it.  Too bad I can't wear it again due to the COC thinking that it burns at a lower tempture then cotton :  But non issued rigs are a go  ;D, so I can't ***** about it  :



Can the CoC not be given the specs of the OTW shirt which would correct this (if in fact Dri-fire and the CADPAT cloth is better than cotton/combat shirt combo)?


----------



## NL_engineer (1 Jun 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> Can the CoC not be given the specs of the OTW shirt which would correct this (if in fact Dri-fire and the CADPAT cloth is better than cotton/combat shirt combo)?
> [/quote
> 
> Well I tried again, and got the basic catch all line: "its not issued so you can't wear it".


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (1 Jun 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## NL_engineer (5 Jun 2009)

s1t2, Found out it is just not allowed at my FOB: when we went to another FOB, that FOB SM was wearing one (just took mine off, after wearing it for three days).

Matt, I will be sending you a few ideas for the GEN II when I get a chance.  

Has anyone found a problem with chafing on the back of the neck?  I have been finding the collar tends to bunch up if not fully zipped up.  I have found that that and the armor neck protector chafe my neck.


----------



## Loachman (5 Jun 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Well I tried again, and got the basic catch all line: "its not issued so you can't wear it".



Yet the issue underwear, which one can wear because it is issue, is a far, far worse fire hazard.


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (2 Jul 2009)

Glad to see some orgs (eg the Marines) having institutionalised the under-armour (not brand name) combat shirts.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090702/afghan_operation_090702/20090702?hub=TopStories


----------



## Bzzliteyr (2 Jul 2009)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> Glad to see some orgs (eg the Marines) having institutionalised the under-armour (not brand name) combat shirts.
> 
> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090702/afghan_operation_090702/20090702?hub=TopStories



Huh? what?


----------



## PMedMoe (2 Jul 2009)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Huh? what?



That's what I thought........    ???


----------



## Eric_911 (2 Jul 2009)

Probably referring to the dude laying on the ground in the third pic.

http://www.ctv.ca/mar/photo.html?ad=n&pname=http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20090702/450_ap_afghan2_090702.jpg&win_width=845.0&description=U.S. Marines from the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, 1st Battalion 5th Marines wait at Camp Leatherneck to board helicopters for a night air assault in Afghanistan's Helmand province Thursday, July 2, 2009. (AP / David Guttenfelder)

Wired article link though, there's many better sources on the American Army and Marines hybrid shirts.


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (2 Jul 2009)

Sorry about some of the confused looks. Didn't have time to compress the photo and had to link the main article. 

Actually, if you look more closely, you'll see that I was actually referring to nearly all of the Marines in the photo. Just a point to rub it into our faces, until DLR gets their version out to the troops.... whenever that is.


----------



## Matt_Fisher (2 Jul 2009)

Eric_911 said:
			
		

> Probably referring to the dude laying on the ground in the third pic.
> 
> http://www.ctv.ca/mar/photo.html?ad=n&pname=http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20090702/450_ap_afghan2_090702.jpg&win_width=845.0&description=U.S. Marines from the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, 1st Battalion 5th Marines wait at Camp Leatherneck to board helicopters for a night air assault in Afghanistan's Helmand province Thursday, July 2, 2009. (AP / David Guttenfelder)
> 
> Wired article link though, there's many better sources on the American Army and Marines hybrid shirts.



You'll also notice that in the pic, the rigs the Marines have piled on the ground are the Scalable Plate Carrier (http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/pmice/ASPC.asp), as they've deemed that for dismounted ops in Afghanistan, it's the battalion commander's call to adjust the levels of PPE, so as to reduce weight and heat strain on the troops.


----------



## Journeyman (3 Jul 2009)

Sometimes.....just _sometimes_.......

war-fighting preempts the best efforts of those whose strong suit is Dress Regs, the parade square, 'form over function,' rock painting, etc...








*Copyright*: cryptome.org/af-photo-war-03/af-photo-war-03.htm 

ps - to add to the 'pot-stirring,' you can tell that these are Marine infantry (not artillery)....because they're firing an_ infantry_ support weapon  ;D


----------



## OldSolduer (3 Jul 2009)

I was on a site where I have a former colleague who is pretty high up there in the TF HQ. He wears a dry fire....if he's wearing one.....pretty much tells me the troops are good to go.


----------



## Journeyman (3 Jul 2009)

OldSoldier said:
			
		

> I was on a site where I have a former colleague who is pretty high up there in the TF HQ. He wears a dry fire....if he's wearing one.....pretty much tells me the troops are good to go.



Theoretically.

....but it wouldn't be the first occasion where the staff have gucci kit that some CSM or RSM won't allow because it's "not in the pam," or _~shudder~_ a picture of a troop with non-issue kit may make it back to someone even more anal.


----------



## OldSolduer (3 Jul 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Theoretically.
> 
> ....but it wouldn't be the first occasion where the staff have gucci kit that some CSM or RSM won't allow because it's "not in the pam," or _~shudder~_ a picture of a troop with non-issue kit may make it back to someone even more anal.


I hear you JM....so true isn't it?


----------



## Bzzliteyr (3 Jul 2009)

I can confirm that once I was completing the tour 07-08 with the Vandoos, I dropped all my lovely pictures from outside the wire off with the public affairs officer.  She loved them all but said none of the ones with me in the pictures could be used.  Reason:  The only issue piece of kit I ever had on was my combat pants!!

Of course, every tour is different as we can see by the stuff going up on combat camera these days.


----------



## Matt_Fisher (3 Jul 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Sometimes.....just _sometimes_.......
> 
> war-fighting preempts the best efforts of those whose strong suit is Dress Regs, the parade square, 'form over function,' rock painting, etc...
> 
> ...



One of the wisest things the Marine Corps has ever done was to make its PT uniform (which those Marines pictured are wearing) consist of the OD green t-shirt which you also wear with Utilities (combats) and OD shorts, so it's 'semi-tactical' enough to wear as FOB gear, and still function if you have to perform a quick fire mission whilst in the midst of a PT session...lol


----------



## NL_engineer (4 Jul 2009)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Sometimes.....just _sometimes_.......
> war-fighting preempts the best efforts of those whose strong suit is Dress Regs, the parade square, 'form over function,' rock painting, etc...



We keep fighting the dress reg war, we can now walk around with unblowsed pants, but must have boot bands on our person, and OTW shirts are good most places except KAF and a few FOBs.


----------



## EddieUV777 (8 Sep 2009)

So the Canadian Forces don't supply a FR combat shirt? That's kind of odd. I must say though, I love the CADPAT Design. The one thing we lack down here in the states is, a woodland variant of a combat shirt (OTW). The Marines have the desert MARPAT aka FROG gear. I happen to have a pair of those. As well as the Army. The biggest flaw in the Army issues combat shirt is the material. It's made of a mesh. Rips VERY easily. Some soldiers rip them while putting it on or taking it off. Here are some pics of my combat shirt.


----------



## DirtyDog (2 Aug 2010)

I have several CP Gear OTW shirts and my biggest complaint is that for a $130 shirt, and that is a lot of money for 1 shirt, it is awfully frail.  Almost every one I've seen over a month or two old, the seams are seperating where the FR material (plain tan) meets the CADAPAT.  Also the DriFire material is quite frail itself as small tears and holes seem to appear very easily.  Early on, I figured out that since they wear fairly tight, and are especially hard to get off when soaked with sweat, that it is best to be as delicate as possible when removing them to avoiding stressing the seams and material.  I can provide pictures of examples.

An alternative I use from time to time, although not as "cool" (not moisture wicking) but just as comfortable, is the hybrid shirts the tailor was making in CNS.  Basically just a tan t-shirt with CADPAT sleeves and re-enforcment across the back of the shoulders.  Great shirt for $35 and what I actually wear inside the wire anywhere where more than a t-shirt is required.


----------



## Matt_Fisher (4 Aug 2010)

DirtyDog,

Thanks for the feedback.  We're continually looking at ways in which to improve our products and as such I value what you have to say.

Regarding the price of the combat shirt, the cost is largely dictated by the price of the raw materials and also bear in mind that these shirts are produced in relatively small batches in a Canadian factory, using Canadian labour.  When compared to the price of several comparabe shirts, the CPGear OTW shirt is pretty much in the same range.

Blackhawk High Performance Combat Shirt $179.99US  http://www.blackhawk.com/product/ITS-HPFU-Performance-Shirt,1219,187.htm

Crye Precision Combat Shirt $145US  http://www.cryeprecision.com/P-APRCS4602XL/Combat-Shirt-Ac

Massif Army Combat Shirt  $169.99US  http://www.massif.com/massif-gear/combat-shirts/army-combat-shirt-acs.html

In regard to the seam durability, I will consult with our head sewer to see if there is a different way of joining the material together in order to form a more durable stitch pattern.

The CNS tailor option is certainly alot cheaper, but we can't run a business in Canada charging third world labour rates, and the customer has to supply the raw materials (t-shirt and CADPAT AR combat shirt).  Also remember that alot depends on the mood of the supply tech at clothing stores when a deployed CF member comes back to Canada and turns in their CADPAT AR kit; the supply tech may have wised up that troops are having their combat shirts cannibalized to be made into hybrid/OTW type shirts, and as such could require that the government be reimbursed for the loss/destruction of missing shirts, so in the long run that $35 CNS produced shirt may end up costing close to what the CPGear OTW shirt does.


----------



## DirtyDog (6 Aug 2010)

It's not so much the cost, which is understandable, it's the fact the garment wears after such a short time.  I have 3 shirts in rotation (that's roughly $400 worth of shirts) and two of them are showing signs of heavy wear (seams failing, holes in fabric) and I'm only half way through tour.  The 3rd I don't wear near as much as I believe it's an older gen with no velcro on the collar and doesn't fit as well as the other two.

Another complaint I have, which really isn't the shirts fault, is the fit of the sleeves.  Being relatively short and stocky, the sleeves are much too long for me and tightening the cuffs just doesn't cut it.  So I'm forced the roll the cuffs up which is less then desireable.  In the future, I would have them tailored to fit better.  I like the fit of sleeves on standard combat shirts where the length suits me and they aren't so baggy.  A lot of guys however like the bagginess of the sleeves for breathability.  I preferr a little tighter fit.... less sloppy and prone to getting in the way.

Lastly, I find the sleeve pocket zippers almost impossible to operate with one hand.  With the kevlar brassards now being mandatory however, it's moot as pockets are covered up.

Although I don't wear the CNS shirts outside the wire (I preferr having moisture wicking, fire retardness, and a collar to reduce chaffing on the neck) some guys do.  It's an OK alternative for those not wishing to spend a lot of money but it's hardly accessible to anyone now that CNS is in US hands.  We were just lucky to have been there for a short time.  Point of note, I won't mention how the tailor aquired CADPAT material, but all you had to provide was a tan t-shirt for him to make you a hybrid.

Everything said, I can't imagine not wearing the CP OTW shirts here in the summer and I would buy them all over again.  Infact, the only time I didn't wear one in subsitution of the combat shirt, was on the flight from Mirage to KAF.


----------



## Matt_Fisher (13 Aug 2010)

I talked to our sewing staff about the fabric separation issue and we're going to be putting a double instead of single needle stitch where the DRIFIRE and the CADPAT fabric come together.  The upside is that it should reinforce the material and increase its strength and durability as such.  The downside is that it will make for a slightly 'chunkier' piece of material where the two fabrics meet.


----------



## iciphil (11 Oct 2010)

Hi Matt, 

Why the OTW sale ?

New design coming ?  or are the Army one's being issued in theater ?

Thanks

Phil
Fo 3-10


----------



## Matt_Fisher (12 Oct 2010)

Hi Phil,

Every month we select various products to put on special; sometimes they're ones we have overstock of, other times we will select our best sellers to boost sale.  This month is just happes to be the OTW shirt.

Cheers,

Matt


----------



## BDTyre (17 Dec 2010)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> I talked to our sewing staff about the fabric separation issue and we're going to be putting a double instead of single needle stitch where the DRIFIRE and the CADPAT fabric come together.  The upside is that it should reinforce the material and increase its strength and durability as such.  The downside is that it will make for a slightly 'chunkier' piece of material where the two fabrics meet.



I had the same issue on my tour, and for me and other guys in my platoon, we're fairly certain it was actually the contracted laundry services. Whatever they were using was eating away at the seams and the dri-fire material. Some guys actually developed huge holes in their shirts from it. I noticed mine stopped getting worse after I stopped sending it to the laundry.


----------



## NL_engineer (23 Dec 2010)

DirtyDog, I never had a problem with the OTW in the Afghan Summer, yes after wearing it for a while it was a pain in the a** to get off.  As for rips and tears one of my two shirts got a rip; due to a wire hooking it.  Other then that I had no problems (since we were never in KAF or CNS long enough to use laundry services, that may have helped).


----------



## Jammer (23 Dec 2010)

Matt,
I have both colour OTW shirts and can unequivocally say that they have done well for me over tours in Afghanistan and here at home.  Never a complaint about the quality of items purchased from CP Gear.

Cheers,
Paul


----------



## Franko (23 Dec 2010)

Jammer said:
			
		

> Matt,
> I have both colour OTW shirts and can unequivocally say that they have done well for me over tours in Afghanistan and here at home.  Never a complaint about the quality of items purchased from CP Gear.
> 
> Cheers,
> Paul



Jammer,

FYI - Matt no longer works with CP Gear.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/97949/post-997918.html#msg997918


----------



## DirtyDog (15 Aug 2012)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> DirtyDog, I never had a problem with the OTW in the Afghan Summer, yes after wearing it for a while it was a pain in the a** to get off.  As for rips and tears one of my two shirts got a rip; due to a wire hooking it.  Other then that I had no problems (since we were never in KAF or CNS long enough to use laundry services, that may have helped).


I know this is an old response, but I came across it today while looking something up.

In regards to the laundry service being a possible culprit for premature wear; I only ever used a laundry service 1 or 2 times while in CNS.  We only lived their for a few weeks and everywhere else was self serve or hand wash.  So, at least in my case, I don't beleive it had to do with the laundry detergent or rough washing.


----------

