# Leave Policy – Weekends (time off)  Merged]



## FSGT Lampkin (22 Mar 2005)

Hi Everyone.....

To all you ppl that are at/have been at RMC...i was wondering how much time you get off in your 1st year....i know about IAP/BOTC and no time off there but during the year do u get home much?

thx


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## Chags (23 Mar 2005)

As a member of the CF with less than 5 years in, you are entitled to 20 annual days of leave..  This basically amounts to 14-20 calender days for X-mas, depending on if you are in arts or engineering.  You get a Reading week/March Break and about 2 weeks during the summer.. before or after your summer training..  depending on what MOC you are, you may be "forced" to take a month or so off.. (damn airforce types)  If you are on SLT or Army CAP course that summer, you can expect 2 weeks.

On top of that, after the (I know its no longer called) recruit term, you usually get 3 out of 4 wkds off per month..  but that may have changed..


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## ArmyGirlfriend19 (31 May 2005)

hello, 
I have recently gotten home from visiting my boyfriend in St jean on his 4th weekend...I would like to go see him again on the long weekend in June but the problem is is that he willbe in farmham b/c it is his 8th week...there fore i was wondering will they still get the privilage of leaving for the long weekend aslong as they do not screw up?? And if they do get to leave for the long weekend will they get the friday or the monday off??? As well is the long weekend the weekend of the 24th???...sorry if this is repetitive but I just want to clarfily...thanks Jenn


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## Goober (31 May 2005)

The only one who could really give you a definitive answer on that is your boyfriend. Its still 4 weeks away, his staff will let him know, or tell him to ask if he gets the long weekend or not.


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## 9nr Domestic (31 May 2005)

Maybe I am still asleep but I don't think there is a long weekend in June. The next long weekend is in July, July 1st to be exact.


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## shadow (31 May 2005)

Quebec.  St Jean Baptiste Day
unfortunately the rest of us don't get to benefit from it


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## 9nr Domestic (31 May 2005)

shadow said:
			
		

> Quebec.   St Jean Baptiste Day
> unfortunately the rest of us don't get to benefit from it



That is right I forgot all about it.


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## Inch (31 May 2005)

shadow said:
			
		

> Quebec.   St Jean Baptiste Day
> unfortunately the rest of us don't get to benefit from it



They don't get the Civic in Aug though. At least we didn't when I was there on language school.


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## MikeM (31 May 2005)

I didn't get Canada Day last year..  :

Just the way it happened to work out though.


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## ArmyGirlfriend19 (31 May 2005)

hey,
Yeah  figured that my boyfriend would be the only one whocould give me an answer but i just thought I would try anyways...Thanks jenn


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## SBale (4 Jun 2005)

When the first Friday after week 8 is done he will most likely be confined to base, because they feel that everyone needs the rest after being in farnham, he will probably be able to leave the sat Morning at 0800. that's how my staff did it anyway. hope that helps


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## ArmyGirlfriend19 (4 Jun 2005)

hey thanks, for the input but i have decided to go up the 7th week instead sowe can spend the whole weekend together...lol...well thanks for the help...Jenn


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## SBale (4 Jun 2005)

No problem


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## Mappy (5 Jun 2005)

Armygirlfriend.........how did going up to St. Jean go for you?  Any transportation/general problems?  I might head up to St. Jean in a few weeks if my bf can manage a weekend leave


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## ArmyGirlfriend19 (7 Jun 2005)

hey mappy... i took a train from windsor to toronto and then another train from toronto to montreal...then from montreal I too the local transit to  Saint jean which only costs $7.10.... probably the hardest part was finding the bus station in montreal because the station there is so large... however I had no problems the transportation was good and my hotel was nice as well... I would definetly say that you should go up and see your boyfriend I had a blast and I cannot wait to go up again...hope you have fun...and if you have anymore questions you can add me to your MSN dancing_queen63@hotmail.com...ttyl jenn


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## Basic Person (15 Jun 2005)

I heard there's financial aid to visit your family during your leave, but how much do they cover? A round trip fare for me from montreal to vancouver would cost $756 on westjet...


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## Michael OLeary (15 Jun 2005)

LEAVE TRAVEL ASSISTANCE (LTA)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dcba/engraph/LTA_e.asp?sidesection=2&sidecat=7


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## DVessey (19 Jun 2005)

I just finished first year at RMC.
For me, it went like this:
IAP, straight to RMC. FYOP (aka recruit term) for four weeks. 

During IAP, you can get some weekend leave after the first four weeks. I know a lot of francos saw their family almost every weekend if they lived close to St. Jean.
During FYOP, not a chance(unless of course there are extenuating circumstances).

During the school year, we had 3 weeks off at Christmas, 1 week off in late February.

I then went to BOTP for 5 weeks, now I'm back at RMC for a summer OJT. I'm getting 3 weeks off at the end of the summer.

The majority of weekends during the school year are free(meaning you can get leave). There are a few duty weekends(parades, range day, etc) where you can't get leave.


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## familyman (22 Jun 2005)

I am leaving for basic in august and wondering if anyone went home on their weekend leave.?I live close  to toronto and think its about 8 hours away,has anyone made the treck home,and how?   thanks fellas!


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## SeaRoom (23 Jun 2005)

I never went home, but I had friends that did. St. Jean is more like 5-6 hours from Toronto. First three or four weeks in Basic you are confined to the base, but after that you can go home. Going home each weekend is difficult though, there's usually lots to do during you "time off".


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## Infanteer101 (9 Aug 2005)

Forest-gump, first and foremost be well aware of the fact that you are going on Basic and during this period you will be nailed with various duties (or extra duties on the weekend if you are a trouble maker). Usually the indoctrination period lasts the first 4 weeks but it can be longer if the staff chooses it be (this falls in direct correlation with the platoon's behaviour/progress). As posted by SeaRoom, St. Jean is no more than 6 hrs from Toronto and fairly easy to get to and from but at this point DO NOT commit to anything in the distant future unless you are sure of it, the staff usually doesn't give back the leave passes until the Thursday or Friday prior to the weekend. Best of luck!


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## dearryan (26 Sep 2005)

Quick question...

IF a recruit gets a weekend off at basic are there any restrictions as to where he/she can go? Any max distance from the base? Obviously it wouldn't be advisable to leave the country....but lets say A 3 hour bus ride home for example. This is of coarse assuming the recruit is back on time. 

thanks

Ryan


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## GNR (26 Sep 2005)

Check with your course staff, but I wouldn't predict any free weekends.


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## NavComm (26 Sep 2005)

Ryan, as long as you are over the age of majority, and you are given leave, you can leave the base overnight. In Borden, there was a map with a big circle on it....you could travel within that circle. It included Toronto. Some people went to their homes (Hamilton was one place I recall) but I believe they got permission for that.

After about week 4 we were given leave forms to fill out and getting leave depended on a number of things. When and if leave was granted, those whose leave applications were approved, could leave for the time granted on the form and to the destination they put on the form. If you're not back on time, you are considered AWOL and I have no idea what happens to you then!


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## Glorified Ape (27 Sep 2005)

GNR said:
			
		

> Check with your course staff, but I wouldn't predict any free weekends.



Most weekends after the INDOC period are free, IIRC. That depends on your platoon staff too, of course.


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## Bradboy (27 Sep 2005)

Where is the closest nudie bar to Borden and how do I get there? 4 weeks with not being able to see good lookin' girls in their tight jeans and short skirts is going to take its toll on me. Also, are there bars on the base in Borden? I'm no alcoholic or anything (alcoholics go to meetings) I just enjoy a nice cold brewsky after a hard days work. Cheers.


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## geo (27 Sep 2005)

you'll find that most courses will have 1st 1 or 2 weekends with recruits Confined to base.
Thereafter, as long as you get "leave" and are back on time.... bon voyage.


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## Bradboy (27 Sep 2005)

But the question still stands....where is the closest nudie bar? ???   And I thought that we were confined to base for the first 4 weeks??? 

  On another note, during our weekends when we are confined to base, what is there to do for us recruits? What kind of facilities are there to keep us occupied? I understand we'll be spending plenty of time polishing boots, ironing uniform, etc. but surely that won't take all day.


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## D-n-A (27 Sep 2005)

Well, they can   do inspections over the weekends, I think on the first weekend on my BMQ we had like 10+ inspections, fun times!

Don't worry about this kinda stuff, your find out all about it when you get to StJean or Borden.


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## Fry (27 Sep 2005)

Bradboy said:
			
		

> But the question still stands....where is the closest nudie bar? ???     And I thought that we were confined to base for the first 4 weeks???
> 
> On another note, during our weekends when we are confined to base, what is there to do for us recruits? What kind of facilities are there to keep us occupied? I understand we'll be spending plenty of time polishing boots, ironing uniform, etc. but surely that won't take all day.





I think we are confined for the first 4 weeks. As for the strip club, I wouldn't have a clue.


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## Bradboy (27 Sep 2005)

Fry said:
			
		

> As for the strip club, I wouldn't have a clue.



DAMMIT FRY!!! Looks like me and you will have to do some very important reconnaissance work our first weekend with leave! Women are an essential part of life. No man can live without them. Well, maybe some....but that's a topic for a different forum. Cheers.


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## Fry (27 Sep 2005)

Haha, some recce indeed Bradboy! I have a few stories I can tell you about the strip clubs in St. John's, NL! It's innapprioate talk here, so msn me and I'll fill you in! 


Hilarious post though! Look forward to working with you at Borden.


All the best.


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## geo (27 Sep 2005)

Nudie bars?????
they don't call it Camp Boredom for nothing...........

If you have some spare time and that's a big "if" all bases have a sports centre with Gym, courts, pool, swimming pool, dry cantine, movie theatre and probably dvd/CD rental
Then you can also hang around the laundry room..... so long as you promiss to leave the ladies undies alone.


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## dearryan (27 Sep 2005)

Easy there boys! They are also really good places to get into trouble. keep your eye on the" prize"....and that "prize" ain't wearing a thong. 


Ryan


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## missNickers (27 Sep 2005)

So i know some are interested in the nearest bar, but what about time for Gf's to come viisit..  Is it for sure that they will get a break about halfway through basic??  And as for the drinkers, i think you should be more concerned with passing your course.  Staying focused should be a priority,not getting into trouble. think about it.


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## S.A.Blundon (27 Sep 2005)

OK, I don't go to clubs...yet, but I know theres a couple about 25 minutes away in barrie. Theres the ROXX and the Jam nightclub. I remember my brother going to those a couple times when he was on some kind of training. Hope this helps   ;D I sure wont be going to any while i'm on BMQ


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## grayman (27 Sep 2005)

In regards to boozing on weekends........dont count on it first four weeks at least, and even then only if you are 19, thats legal drinking age for those coming from out of province.  If under 19 and you get time off on weekends, you will be back by 1 AM for a bed check.  As for bars the ROXX, rocks, thurs night used to be university night, weekends same as any other bar," The Jam " is a small watering hole just outside the gates of the base in a the local town of Angus, about 10 min away, the ROXX is dowtown Barrie, for those interested there is a Nudie bar just down the way from the ROXX called the silver dollar, and another one on the outskirts of Barrie as you enter the city from the base, the name escapes my memory but whoever asked about it obviously frequents those sort of establishments and probably has a keen eye and will see the sign out front of the place.  To the best of my knowledge you as recruits will not be partaking in any fine amber ales while on the base, I beleive any establishment that serves booze on base is strickly VERBOTEN.
All the out of bounds area's will be given to you by your staff , PS dont try to sneek in to any out of bounds areas, you will get caught even if there is no instructors there does,nt mean they dont have freinds there, all eyes will be on you.

SOLDIER ON!!! :'(


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## Bradboy (27 Sep 2005)

S.A.Blundon said:
			
		

> I sure wont be going to any while i'm on BMQ



Suit yourself, I will be!!! ;D




			
				grayman said:
			
		

> In regards to boozing on weekends........dont count on it first four weeks at least



   darn man! I guess at about week 2 the DT's are gonna start kickin in! Ohhh the pain! :crybaby:



Removed due to in appropriate comment ...PM inbound




			
				grayman said:
			
		

> To the best of my knowledge you as recruits will not be partaking in any fine amber ales while on the base, I bbelieveany establishment that serves booze on base is sstrictlyVERBOTEN.



So when should I expect the DT's to start setting in? Beer has become a necessity of life. Nothin' like a cold brewsky with the boys after a hard days work. 



			
				grayman said:
			
		

> SOLDIER ON!!! :'(



Will do!


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## theSage (27 Sep 2005)

Hey Brad if your in Fry's BMQ as am I and I used to live in barrie like 8 years ago.   I know where to find pretty much everything but the nudie bar, I remeber where the ROXX is I belive and at least one or two other sports bars, and of course the 2 movie theaters.  Beyond that thats a race track that should be pretty easy to find it's not favorite place but its there.


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## D-n-A (27 Sep 2005)

DT?
The other strip club in Barrie that I know of is Mistys, least I think thats what its called, only been to it once.   I woulden't spend to much time at places like that, expensive(if you get a lot of dances, drinks, etc), plus they get boring.. but whatever floats your boat.


The ROXX is pretty good, but like most clubs, if you want to talk to someone, you gotta yell into their ear from 2 inches away.


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## armyjewelz (27 Sep 2005)

Bradboy said:
			
		

> Suit yourself, I will be!!! ;D
> 
> 
> darn man! I guess at about week 2 the DT's are gonna start kickin in! Ohhh the pain! :crybaby:
> ...




Wow Bradboy.. You sure do your country proud huh? Nah.. Your not showing your young age or your sads chauvinism at ALL!!!  : : :

As for the WHooooore?  Inappropriate! Just MHO though.


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## Gramps (27 Sep 2005)

As for peeler bars in Barrie, there is Crossovers and the Silver Star 

Now, that being said, if a strip bar is the only way you can get close to a woman (with or without her clothes on) then I think therapy is in order. Also there is something terribly uncomfortable about going to peeler bars with a group of guys. Think of it for a second, you go out, you look at naked women dancing around. Maybe you get a table or lap dance (no, she doesn't like you at all In case you were wondering). Then maybe you go out with that same group of guys but now they are all horned up, then you go back to the barracks. So, you look at women all night long but you go home with men? For anyone who frequents peeler bars a lot maybe your time would be more better spent honing your social skills or, now here is a really outlandish concept, go and talk to a woman. You may find that may be much more productive and you wont have to spend a bucket of cash for it either.

Okay so that is my opinion on going to a peeler bar with men. I will save my opinion on going to them with an open minded woman for another forum. Maybe one like Penthouse letters. Oh yeah one more thing, saying things like WHOOOOORE YAH!! is a little counter productive and a little of an immature and archaic attitude. I suggest you buy a copy of "How to Win Friends and Influence People". You never know it may work, well, at least until you shout out "***** Yeah" anyway.

Alright now, lets all try not to take this too seriously.

Cheers.


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## Fry (27 Sep 2005)

Gramps said:
			
		

> As for peeler bars in Barrie, there is Crossovers and the Silver Star
> 
> Now, that being said, if a strip bar is the only way you can get close to a woman (with or without her clothes on) then I think therapy is in order. Also there is something terribly uncomfortable about going to peeler bars with a group of guys. Think of it for a second, you go out, you look at naked women dancing around. Maybe you get a table or lap dance (no, she doesn't like you at all In case you were wondering). Then maybe you go out with that same group of guys but now they are all horned up, then you go back to the barracks. So, you look at women all night long but you go home with men? For anyone who frequents peeler bars a lot maybe your time would be more better spent honing your social skills or, now here is a really outlandish concept, go and talk to a woman. You may find that may be much more productive and you wont have to spend a bucket of cash for it either.
> 
> ...




Now, now guys, don't go hating on him just because he loves the nude bars. I'm a fan also, even though I haven't visited them often. I could probably count the times on my two hands... 

I've never been 'horned up' when I left and went home. I just enjoy the atmosphere... and the scenery  ;D

As for going home with men... I don't exactly think he can bring any girls back to his room... he's only making the best of the situation.

As for beer... God yes. Beer is a necessity. I love it. There will be no moment like the time when I crack open a cold one after weeks of BMQ training. It will be a time to remember. Nothing better than drinking a cold beer with the guys.


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## Gramps (27 Sep 2005)

Personally I really could not care any less if he goes to peeler bars. Hey, its his money after all. I think his W*ore Comment was probably what did him in. Remeber this is a public forum after all isn't it?


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## armyjewelz (27 Sep 2005)

I have no problem with what people do in their freetime but I do have to say this...

Calling a woman a whore is innappropriate, whether private or public forum.  What type of person still hold that mentality? Hey... It's not the greatest job in the world, but it's legal and it's a job and it's an income...

The only people who would call any woman a whore for having a certain type of occupation? Not the kind of man I want serving my country...

It's the onld theory of "She asked for it" and it makes me nauseous, and by the way? It's not just me... My husband agrees, so lets not call the man hater here!!

Cheers and here's to no more innappropriate comments!


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## Bradboy (27 Sep 2005)

Let me first say that I'm sorry for the "Whooore Yah" comment. Although I thought it was quite funny and suited the topic well, it was unnecessary and uncalled for. So I'll be a man and say I'm sorry.

   As for you Gramps, what makes you think the only way I can get close to a woman is by going to a titty bar? I hope you're not getting the impression that I spend all my time in strip clubs because that's not the case. Like Fry said I enjoy the atmosphere and the scenery, hah. As for you thinking I need therapy, I can assure you that I have no problem speaking to women. And who else would I go to the bar with besides a group of guys? By myself? With a girl? I was under the impression that peeler bars were designed for the boys to spend a night in. Cheers.


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## Fry (27 Sep 2005)

I agree that prehaps shouting whore in a forum isn't totally appropriate, however it isn't profanity.

whore      ( P )   Pronunciation Key   (hôr, hr)
n. 
A prostitute. 
A person considered sexually promiscuous. 
A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain


Also, I've heard this mentioned on many television shows that do not have viewer discretion warnings, aired during the day.


Prehaps for arguements sake it should be censored, but I don't think you all should make such a big deal out of it.



> The only people who would call any woman a ***** for having a certain type of occupation? Not the kind of man I want serving my country...



As the above definition states, the word he used perfectly and legititmately described the occupation, so he was only being truthful. A little crude prehaps, but it is truthful.

Pat on the back for apologizing for the comment though.

I think it should be just dropped now. The arguements have been made, the comment analyzed.


While on the topic of weekends, does anyone know if Hapkido is offered on or near CFB Borden?


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## Gramps (27 Sep 2005)

I guess you missed my line about not taking it too seriously. I was not flaming you, I don't think you need therapy. And I honestly don't care if you go to peeler bars. Much of my post was said in jest. Okay now really, lets try not to take me too seriously alright. Cheers.


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## D-n-A (27 Sep 2005)

Well, I think this thread has run its course, and should be closed before any more arguments, etc start up.


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## Fry (27 Sep 2005)

I am still wondering if anyone knows if Hapkido is offered near or on CFB Borden. If anyone knows, a response would be appreciated.


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## Bradboy (27 Sep 2005)

Nah I'm done. I guess senses of humour don't go to far here, haha. Now let's get back on topic. I hear that Borden has a golf course. Will us recruits be able to use this on our weekends off?


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## D-n-A (27 Sep 2005)

I have no idea what things recruits have access to on the base, but yea they have a pretty good golf course, but two of my friends went there while we were on our 3s, an the rental clubs they have are meant for short people/kids.

Fry, as for hapkido, as far as I know, there isn't anything like that on base, but I woulden't worry about trying to find a place that runs it an signing up for a program, or whatever, since you won't be able to goto it during the weeknights, an your weekends won't always be guarenteed.


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## Fry (27 Sep 2005)

I wasn't interested while attending BMQ. I was interested just incase I got placed in PAT there in the new year.


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## D-n-A (27 Sep 2005)

Why would you be in PAT Plt? Unless you get injured during your BMQ, you won't do any time in PAT. Your do BMQ, than get shipped to Gagetown? To do your SQ and Air Defence QL3.


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## Fry (27 Sep 2005)

I thought I read somewhere here that there's a backlog of recruits and that many will go through at least some time in PAT while waiting for a position in SQ.


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## D-n-A (27 Sep 2005)

Did it say that you would be in PAT Plt in Borden though? I'm pretty sure you'd goto Gagetown an be in PAT there. My brother did his BMQ in St Jean, than went straight to PAT Plt in Wainwright to wait for SQ.


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## theSage (28 Sep 2005)

One of the things I remeber about barrie is the snow and all the places to going skiing.   I did mostly cross country, but theres are at least one or two downhill mountains.   If by some mircale we get leave before it gets to cold an snow some of the cross country place do mounain biking in the off season,  but I have no idea when they'll stop biking there.

And on another note I have been wondering where we'll do our SQ,  so it's Gagetown and Wainwright?  thats good to know, and are those the only 2?


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## D-n-A (28 Sep 2005)

As far as I know, SQ is run in Wainwright, Shilo, Meaford, Valcartier and Gagetown.  Since your going RCR, your most likely do it in Meaford, same for BIQ.


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## MOOO! (28 Sep 2005)

Most likely if you are going into the RCR in Ont your hitting Meaford (ahh meaford).  Borden is packed with Pat Pl pers and they are being shuffled all over Canada to get their training. Good luck for those who are in hard pack tech trades that might have to wait a few years to get into.

Cheers


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## Fry (28 Sep 2005)

I don't know where I'm going! I'm going for AD Arty. Anyone know where I'll be heading?


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## grayman (28 Sep 2005)

FRY, AD ARTY course will most likely be in sunny Gagetown seeing as thats where the school is I think thats a good bet.


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## Wolfe (5 Oct 2005)

I don't know about you guys but if i have the opportunity to leave on weekends i will find a bar or a place were there are women and i will chat one and make love to her at her House or even in the Park   well if its not too cold. After a big week or day i like to have some moment with a beautiful women   and after take a beer with my buds.

Cheers 

Wolf


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## armyjewelz (5 Oct 2005)

Good aspirations there wolfe...

Here are my husband aspirations...

GET THROUGH BASIC.. Screw the weekends... If there are any? Study, sleep, whatever it is that will help him get through!

but have fun with that and hey.. make sure you leave your dog tags out  :


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## alexpb (5 Oct 2005)

Yeah theres a few ski resorts around here...(barrie - like 30 mins from borden if that)

Horse shoe valley
snow valley (in barrie)
uhh blue mountain in collingwood...

Oh and find a beautiful woman? HA good luck with that mission!

Although i do agree, i would be more concerned with BMQ then trying to find a girl on the weekends.


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## Island Ryhno (5 Oct 2005)

Armyjewelz, you should lay off on the kids, because that's what they are, 18 year old alpha males about to make good money. So what if your husband is older and will not be out looking for woman or going to the bar, who cares. Do you think that young males don't do this stuff everywhere. Weekend clubbing and looking for a good time go back to the beggining of time in the forces. It is going to happen, and it's not just the guys that do it either.


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## armyjewelz (5 Oct 2005)

Mmmmm hmmm.. .Thanks for pointing that out for me...Seeing asa how I am only 25 myself.. I remember being young.  PErhaps my point is that I find it amazing while 80% of the people are here, planning out their careers, there is this small # who are all getting testosterone about their first weekend out... while I understand the need to breed and the hormonal aspect of no sex for at least 5 weeks... (How do you think my husband will handle that NOT being able to go out and get women) and I am all for fun at the right time... (Radio Chatter perhaps?) but when reading informational posts and planning out the next 8 months of our life in a NEW CAREER, it is a little annoying to have hormonal alpha males having nothing better to worry/think/post about then getting laid on a park bench?


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## armyjewelz (5 Oct 2005)

dearryan said:
			
		

> Quick question...
> 
> IF a recruit gets a weekend off at basic are there any restrictions as to where he/she can go? Any max distance from the base? Obviously it wouldn't be advisable to leave the country....but lets say A 3 hour bus ride home for example. This is of coarse assuming the recruit is back on time.
> 
> ...



See.. informational question... not..

Hey yall what ya gunna do on your first weekend off... THat I would expect to see in Radio Chatter...

Also, Please allow myself to correct myself... Alpha Males and Beta girls...  I am more than aware of afew gals heading in and planning their party weekdn but they aren't posting about it under recruiting.  Cheers!!!


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## armyjewelz (5 Oct 2005)

Thanks piper...

I think it's important that people realise I have NO problem with partying, NO problem with getting laid and NO problem with nudie bars... The reason I have objected to those two posts are that A) They are in THE WRONG PART OF THE FORUM and B) I find more focus going into the services on what to do with your first weekend off (BY SOME) that the actual course... there is a reason that 50% on average do not make it through these courses...

That being said.. This has gone off topic and I wish you all well regardless of what you choose to do with you weekends.
Please think about starting a thread in Radio Chatter titled "What to do your first weekend" because I notice this coming up quie often in threads... 

Sorry to be a Bag!


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## Jaxson (5 Oct 2005)

I do believe that there is a casino DECENTLY close to barrie ?? i think its casino ramma isnt it?


Edit:




			
				Bradboy said:
			
		

> But the question still stands....where is the closest nudie bar? ???   And I thought that we were confined to base for the first 4 weeks???
> 
> On another note, during our weekends when we are confined to base, what is there to do for us recruits? What kind of facilities are there to keep us occupied? I understand we'll be spending plenty of time polishing boots, ironing uniform, etc. but surely that won't take all day.




I think you will find that the staff will give you more then enough to keep you occupied


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## armyjewelz (5 Oct 2005)

No doubt! Ha! I would be curious from those who have gone through already how many oppurtunities they really had to fill their own time..

From what I have heard, typically most of the weekend inspections and preparing for Monday etc... I know -I- wouldn;t want to do that hung over... EEK


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## dearryan (5 Oct 2005)

armyjewelz said:
			
		

> See.. informational question... not..
> 
> Hey yall what ya gunna do on your first weekend off... THat I would expect to see in Radio Chatter...
> 
> Also, Please allow myself to correct myself... Alpha Males and Beta girls...  I am more than aware of afew gals heading in and planning their party weekdn but they aren't posting about it under recruiting.  Cheers!!!



As my question was intended to help newbies going off to basic (including myself) gain some knowledge as to when and IF they will get the odd weekend off to possibly visit their family/friends. I really don't care what "clubbin" you boys are going to do the first time out of the cage. Maybe someone that has been there could comment on what actually happens. If not I personally think this ones done. 

Thanks

Ryan


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## Shadow Cat (6 Oct 2005)

I really hate to say this but I honestly think that drinking and partying is a big part of the BMQ.  Not that it is a bad thing but it adds to the closeness and bonding that is necessary for the men and woman to do when they are away.  They also will be very very stressed out and will need to unwind and that is one of the ways to do.  My DH was not and still is not a partier but there were a few 2 in the morning phone calls made to me after a visit to the Bistro.  I unlike some found them very amusing and looked forward to talking to him and his platoon mates.   ;D

The other hard reality is that the majority of guys and girls are going to be looking for some release of tension during this time, SQ training and their trade training and dont' forget deployments.  It doesn't matter if they are married or single.  Now I am not saying that all married individuals mess around but if you take a good look at the facts the percentage of cheating both from military members and their spouses are very high.

Just keep an open mind that yes partying is a part of the this BMQ process and don't be paranoid or get upset by what they are doing while you are home with the kids.  As long as you are secure in your relationship than you have nothing to worry about.  

They do say if you have a weak realtionship this experience will make it weaker and if you have a stronger relationship it will make it stronger.


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## armyjewelz (6 Oct 2005)

Umm.. Shadow... I know you from elsewhere and have to say this thread surprises me from you...

Not only I, but my husband disagree 100% with what you have said.. I also do not take kindly to the insult in which you say I would get upset being at home with the kids? Never once did I say my husband wont do it.. Never ONCE did I say I was not ok with it and NEVER ONCE did I insinuate that I am not strong enough to handle it!  Please don;t put your self on a pedastool not knowing what I am talking about.

And to condone cheating by saying it is a statistic?? Mmm... might be the way you choose to live your life... Not me.  I have 100% faith in my husband as does he in me.

I am sorry that you feel the way you do....

Once again I have to reaffirm my original problem

THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS CONVERSATION!!  This is for people who are FOCUSED on the BMQ Process not what happens on the side.

P.s. My husband wishes to say in his view alcohol does not have to play a role in forming relationships.


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## Island Ryhno (6 Oct 2005)

I say a lot people who have been there and done that disagree.  >


http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31916.0.html


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## armyjewelz (6 Oct 2005)

Ya, me too....

If necessary to drink to be friends with people see below....

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/


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## babybug (6 Oct 2005)

You guys are whacked!!!!  There is no excuse for cheating or going out and getting drunk as a way of release. I don't care, there is something else you can do...go to a hockey game, movie, dinner, something. Nailing some strange girl is gonna get you trip to the doctor, or a baby. I guess that is really up to you. But I totally disagree with anyone thinking this is okau. Shadow cat....you can't say that if your dh cheated you would be okay with it. YOU who agree with this way of release are CRAZY!!! Get a life.


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## Shadow Cat (6 Oct 2005)

Yes I do know you from somewhere else. TML.

I think that you may have taken my comment the wrong way.   I do not put myself on a pedestal at all.   There are going to be so many emotions that you will go through you once he is gone and you have no control of them and you can not prepare for them.   I myself have suffered from the little green eyes monster once in awhile.   I usually sit back relax and think a little about it and it passes very quickly without my DH ever hearing that it crept out.   That is all that I meant by that comment.

I personally do not think that it is right that people mess around but it happens more than what most people would think. There is actually a whole class that your DH will be taught and a video on what to watch out for and how to catch you mate cheating.   Pretty pathetic really that they need to educate the people on the hard realtiy of the military world.   I can also tell you that I know of quite people that I never would have dreamed that would cheat and they have and I look and talk to their spouses on a regular and it pains me to think that I never thought that it could happen and it did and they have no clue.   Oh and the reason that I can't say is becuase what happens stays in the military and if someone was to rat on them than there are reprocusions to the miltiary member.   Really the military is almost promoting that.   

Personally I am secure in my relationship with my DH.   I make sure that we see each other every month and a half to ensure that we both get our needs satisifed.   

I just want you and your DH to be prepared for the change that is about to take place.   Like you we felt that alcohol is not needed to have fun.   In fact if you on any giving day came into our house the only alcohol you would find in our house is from people that have left it behind to go bad.   There is just something about BMQ that makes them need that relaxation.   Granted not everyone will need it but you both need to be prepared for this possibility.   

My DH has completed his BMQ and his SQ and is on PAT and he doens't drink again.   There is not that stress and need to unwind and bond that was there throguh BMQ.    BMQ is truly another world.

Like I said before I have a very very strong realtionship.   We have been together for 14 years.   Becuase we have a strong reltionship we will make it.   As long as you have a strong relationship you will too.


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## Shadow Cat (6 Oct 2005)

babybug said:
			
		

> You guys are whacked!!!!   There is no excuse for cheating or going out and getting drunk as a way of release. I don't care, there is something else you can do...go to a hockey game, movie, dinner, something. Nailing some strange girl is gonna get you trip to the doctor, or a baby. I guess that is really up to you. But I totally disagree with anyone thinking this is okau. Shadow cat....you can't say that if your dh cheated you would be okay with it. YOU who agree with this way of release are CRAZY!!! Get a life.



Not once did i say that I agree with it.  In fact if my DH was to ever do that to me, that I knew about, I would kick him to the curb without a second thought or glance.  It would be very disgraceful to me and to what I thought our relationship was about.

The hard facts are that alot of military members and the spouses mess around.  You need to wake up and smell the roses girls.


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## armyjewelz (6 Oct 2005)

I don't think there is any need to mention oither sites, hence why I didn't.

Hun, I never said I was worried about cheating and I have no idea where it even came from?!

This is way off topic.  Can someone close this?


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## armyjewelz (6 Oct 2005)

Shadow? How can you make it through the night thinking it was that real ?  That must haunt you. What your dh must be doing. Tsk tsk


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## Shadow Cat (6 Oct 2005)

And I never said that you man would or that I think that it is acceptable but I sure have been jumped at from both of you for that.


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## Shadow Cat (6 Oct 2005)

armyjewelz said:
			
		

> Shadow? How can you make it through the night thinking it was that real ?   That must haunt you. What your dh must be doing. Tsk tsk



What is this supposed to mean?  

Man you are in for one rude awakening.


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## armyjewelz (6 Oct 2005)

:


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## Shadow Cat (6 Oct 2005)

Sersiously because you have a strong realtionship with your DH you will get to listen to him talk about what perversions go on during BMQ and the miltary life there after and you will have to deal with the heart ache of knowing that your DH has no friends becuase everyone is out messing around on their spouses and becuase his morals are so high he will sit in a room in the evening and watch movies or video games all by himself.  

People that he never thought possible of messing around are doing it.  It is sad.


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## babybug (6 Oct 2005)

Shadow Cat

What are you talking about? I've been smelling the roses a lot longer than you. So please don't tell me to start smelling them now. Now of this is okay. There is no excuse for it. And as for being all secretive about it...no one I know has been kicked out of the military for cheating. And from what I hear about you from the other site...you're a hypocrite. End this now!!!!!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (6 Oct 2005)

MOD   NOTE
Well now, if you two would put your claws away maybe this topic can get back on topic,.....whatever that was. :boring:

OOps looks like three now....


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## armyjewelz (6 Oct 2005)

He won't be the only one with morals... Or are you saying that your husband has no morals?   Or did he go along with everyone else....

Sorry the military does not MAKE cheaters, it just ENCOURAGES the ones that already exist... 

Just because my husband doesn't drink or cheat on his wife is my point.. You are SOOOO OWay off topic...

I just want this thread to FOCUS!!

Not all military are scum so get over it.  I am sooo done!


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## babybug (6 Oct 2005)

Ok claws are gone...never where really out...but.....   Just have to agree with Jewelz. Her dh certainly won't be alone. People have respect and morals for what they hold true. If you love your spouse...then you don't need to cheat.


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## Shadow Cat (6 Oct 2005)

I would just like to say that I was meerly trying to enlighten you of the details of things that may come.   Not once did I bring out my "claws".

I honestly feel sorry that both are unable to read and can not understand english and would just like you to know that I will not partake in this BS from both you any longer.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (6 Oct 2005)

Hey,maybe we could all kiss and make up, heres my addre....what dear, Oh nothin', just typing....... :-[

.....aaaaand, CUT!!


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## Strategic (25 Jul 2006)

How do you spend your time during the weekends at BMQ Saint Jean.

Are you allowed to leave base or see your spouse?

Where is good to go around there, do you play sports or workout or do you just relax.?


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## Shamrock (25 Jul 2006)

The CFLRS site has this info.

When candidates have earned a weekend off, and with a leave pass, they can visit spouses & family.


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## Strategic (25 Jul 2006)

That description is very vague. After about four weeks if your platoon commander says you can leave you can. During that time though what do you do?

This isn't a big issue but someone who has recently went through basic could relate their  experience during BMQ weekends.

Thanks for the link to the BMQ site though it has a lot of other info that will be usefull.


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## Shamrock (25 Jul 2006)

Army answer?  You'll do whatever you're told or you'll get to meet several new and interesting people who wear red hats.  This can vary from working on your kit and quarters, extra class time, extra drill time, etc.  I notice now CFLRS schedule isn't too detailled, but previously, weekends had First Aid courses, WHMIS training, PT, etc.  Sunday morning routine had candidates sleeping until 0700.  Church time is allotted for those who wish it.

Until such a time as you earn the time off, you're not only confined to base, you're access to amenities is limited.  Means you won't be going to the Canex whenever you want or heading to the Mess for a nice relaxing cold one.  You will not be allowed any visitors during this time.  

Civi answer?  You'll do army stuff.


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## Ordinary Dummy (29 Jul 2006)

The first 4 weeks you have zero privledges.  I recently graduated from there (March) and can say from personal experience it was far from fun.  You will spend some of your saturdays actually working.  I think its week 3 we got to go to Ottawa to visit the Military War Museum, which was alot of fun actually.  Sundays are pretty laid back.  You basically get ready for your work week, ie inspection the next morning, laundry, cleaning.  The fourth weekend you are there, you are eligible to get the weekend off. This is assuming your platoon commander grants it to you.  If you guys/gals on your platoon are bags of $h*t, enjoy another weekend confined to barracks.  It happens and they usually dont tell you until friday afternoon so dont make plans leading up to the weekend.  It really sucks when you make plans only to find out you are CB'd and have to cancel any plans you have made.  Every weekend after week 4 is like this.  You may get some off, you may not.  It all depends on how your platoon is that week.  If your drill is crap, you arent making your timings, you dont listen to what they are saying, etc, etc, etc,  it will be another long weekend CB'd.  Hope this helps a little.  Good luck and hope you have a platoon that instills alot of teamwork.  Thats very important.


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## Nikki55 (5 Aug 2006)

Hi, I was just wondering if we are allowed to leave for the weekend after the 4th week? I live an hour a way and was wondering if i could sleep in my own bed??? i heard there was a curfew!!! i am going as IAP.

thanks!!!


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## paracowboy (6 Aug 2006)

You are already displaying a poor attitude. Re-arrange your thought processes.


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## Nikki55 (6 Aug 2006)

Why do you say that I have a poor attitude?

It is just that I thought we had the weekends off after the 4 weeks and then someone says that there is a curfew of 1am. I just think it is werid that we can leave during the day and then have to be back at 1am... If it is that cool!! I would just like to know so I can inform my husband if I will be back or not.


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## HItorMiss (6 Aug 2006)

You may or may not get some weekends off after your 4th week, It all deepends on your platoon's preformance and how your course staff feel's

Don't count on it.


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## paracowboy (6 Aug 2006)

Nikki55 said:
			
		

> Why do you say that I have a poor attitude?
> 
> It is just that I thought we had the weekends off after the 4 weeks and then someone says that there is a curfew of 1am. I just think it is werid that we can leave during the day and then have to be back at 1am... If it is that cool!! I would just like to know so I can inform my husband if I will be back or not.


you shouldn't even be considering "Time off" or anything of the sort. Consider yourself as cut off from the rest of the world for the entirity of your training. Anything else will act to distract at best, to subvert at worst. You're already going to have "Poor-me, I-want-to-quit, this-is-so-hard" moments. You don't need to enforce them before you even get there.


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## Sub_Guy (6 Aug 2006)

I went through 8 weeks, got 2 1/2 weekends off, got CB 1 1/2weekends.


1. Since you live so close you probably won't have any "firm" plans as you shouldn't.  I recall one guy in my platoon has his parents show up from London ON for one weekend.  He didn't know they were coming, he happened to be on CB for something so he was allowing to visit with his family in the mega!!  They didn't let him out of the building.

2. Curfew.  There wasn't one, but you had to be back by a certain time on Sunday.  I don't recall if those personnel who were naughty got curfew, because all the naughty guys I know about got change parade, and CB.  Thinking about it now, there may be a curfew if you are not staying in a Hotel/Home or a number where they can reach you.......  

I lost my weekends off during a Friday morning inspection, which was uplifting! 

Good Luck!!


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## Illegio (2 Oct 2006)

Weekend #1: Guaranteed you will spend the majority of the weekend marking kit. It's a drag, but if the instructors find unmarked kit (and they ALWAYS check), you will get yelled at/crapped on/a counselling.

Weekend #2: Preparing for inspection! Polish boots, fold this, iron that... etc... Again, a drag. 

Weekend #3: War Museum in Ottawa. Pretty cool, take a camera. Don't buy from the shop in the museum, as they are much more expensive there. I think we went to a military cemetary on Sunday...

Come to think of it, I think we also had SHARP training on one of those weekends. Haha... I have ONE good story from SHARP training, but I won't relate it here.

Note that for these weekends, you are confined to your floor except for meals. No CANEX, movie theater, Subway, etc...

Weekend #4 (& subsequent weekends...): Unless your platoon screws up in a MASSIVE fashion, there shouldn't be a problem w/ getting weekends off. I'd heard of platoons losing weekends (military rumour mill), but we never lost any of ours. You can go to Montreal, always nice, though be warned, it can eat into your pay very quickly. Downtown St. Jean was all right too, cafes & restaurants and stuff, people watching & just walking around. Lot of people go out to the bars (La Fiesta springs to mind), but I don't drink, so you'll have to find someone else to suss that out. And if you're on a budget, you can always stay in the MEGA and go to the Bistro or the theatre or what-have-you.


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## Us3D (8 Oct 2006)

there is also some bar's were army guys cant go ... the ''route 66'' and the ''tequila''. ( at ''la fiesta'' girls are young , mostly 17-19, but the alcool is not expensive... 2$ for beer/shooter )
try the ''Bethoveen'' friday night ... its the best place to go ! trust me ! ( 5$ cover , beer 2 for 6$  LOTS LOTS LOTS OF GIRLS )

if u want to go to the 66, here's a hint : - dont tell u are in the army 
                                                          - dont wear your dog tag
                                                          - dont speak english , or say u are from some damn place and u are in trip
                                                          - dont show your CF ID 

 if u want to meet some french girl....yes... some guy need to have sex in the weekend off ,
here is some hint : - girls from st-jean are use to military guy : so dont say stuff like oof am in the army blablabla am cool blablabla....
                             - wear a cap : yes girls from st-jean know as a FAQ that : if u speak english and u have no hair : U ARE IN THE ARMY ! 

 i know some of u guys may think this is bullshit : but i live in st-jean, ( joining for BMQ  OCT 16TH ) and i know most of the girls around there ... 

if u want more tricks or place to go add me on msn biquettes@gmail.com


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## Thorvald (8 Oct 2006)

Us3D said:
			
		

> - wear a cap : yes girls from st-jean know as a FAQ that : if u speak english and u have no hair : U ARE IN THE ARMY !



Taking off Dog Tags
Not wearing Army logo T-Shirt
Leaving CF ID behind
Forgeting to cover up the high and tight hair cut... Priceless

For everything else, there's always Mastercard


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## DirtyDog (8 Oct 2006)

I hope the War museum trip isn't like some grade school field trip.  I'd feel kinda goofy doing something like that at my age. ^-^

Plus I've been toi the museum a couple of times before.


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## JDMCRX (8 Oct 2006)

First 3 weeks ur stuck there on the 4th weekend u can go down at the green desk stand in line and sign out. 

But staying there u have to be up by 11 and bed made and quarters clean. What to do there bestro, pool,gym, go out for a drive and get some food but u got to be back at 10 i think i forget. I stayed there a few weekends there will be lots of people staying there. If your comign from out of town with no car u will probly stay there.

I was the only guy out of the 2 platoons that had a car lol. So we went out once in a while.

Josh


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## George Wallace (8 Oct 2006)

JDMCRX

You are posting numerous responses to posts, in the little time you have been on the site.  You missed some of these must reads:


MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Infantry FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977

Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure:
http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


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## usagimoon (3 Apr 2008)

Hi there all, just a quick question.  Not sure if you'll be able to answer, but I figured I'd ask anyway.  I did some search around and found some answers but nothing really set in stone.  
If a long weekend happens to fall in the middle of a BMQ, will the recruits get that whole long weekend off, or just the Sunday/Monday and have to work the Saturday to compensate?  I know that after week 4 if the platoon is doing well they start to get weekends off, so I was just wondering how that would apply to the May Long weekend coming up which will be the end of my boyfriend's 7th week.  If anyone can answer it would be appreciated   Sorry if I could have found the answer elsewhere!


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## RCDtpr (3 Apr 2008)

Now this is just from my BMQ and DP1....BMQ the only long weekend that fell was Easter and we got it off.  On DP1 we got Canada day weekend, a shortened block leave, labour day weekend, and thanksgiving weekends all off.  But ultimately it`s upto your course chain of command whether or not you get out.


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## LukerB (20 Nov 2008)

Hey everyone, I did a few searches to see if there was a thread about this but couldn't find anything. My apologies if it's been addressed in another thread.
I'm just wondering if, on your weekends off, anyone's had experience or had someone come visit them on the weekends? Whether you payed for a plane or train ticket for them to come visit?
And also, what are the weekends like? From other's I have heard that you hit the bar scene a lot, but do you get yourself a hotel for the weekend so you can get some extra sleep time in or must you always stay on base?
Again, sorry if these questions have been asked. I'm sure they have, I was just having trouble finding them.
Thanks in advance,
Luke.


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## aesop081 (20 Nov 2008)

Lots of people get a hotel in town when they are allowed out. IIRC the comfort inn (St-Jean) is usualy full of recruits on weekends.

Paying for visitors to fly in ?

Sure you can do that but lt me give you a little bit of advice. Your weekends off....they are not a guarantee. You can lose them at a moment's notice. If you pay for someone to come visit and your weekend disapears........well.....you see what i'm getting at.


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## ARMY_101 (20 Nov 2008)

On my course we did have a few people come to visit others for a day, then take the person off base or leave after a day of walking around the base.  Are you asking if someone comes to visit would they be allowed, or what are you asking by putting in the paying for a plane ticket?

The weekends were excellent to get time off training and catch up on sleep (among other things like doing laundry).  However, as mentioned above they can be lost at any time, as happened with a few platoons for various forms of unacceptable behaviour.  They're excellent time to recover and hang out for a bit, and even go out as you mentioned.  Just as long as it's not abused and the course has been performing up to the staff's standards, you should be fine for getting weekends off.


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## LukerB (20 Nov 2008)

Yes both of my buddies have had weekends off revoked for unacceptable behavior within their platoons. I am aware of this, and I see what you guys are getting at. Thank you for the advice, I was just wondering if you are able to have someone come visit you for the weekend and stay at a hotel with you if they choose to do so.
I didn't mean visiting on the base per say, more of a spend time with a few buddies from back home for the weekend if they feel like doing a road trip to Montreal haha.


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## ARMY_101 (20 Nov 2008)

I wouldn't see why not.  Even if they waited for you at the front gates and took you off base to another area, I don't see how there could be a problem (if you have your weekend off).


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Nov 2008)

LukerB said:
			
		

> Yes both of my buddies have had weekends off revoked for unacceptable behavior within their platoons. I am aware of this, and I see what you guys are getting at. Thank you for the advice, I was just wondering if you are able to have someone come visit you for the weekend and stay at a hotel with you if they choose to do so.
> I didn't mean visiting on the base per say, more of a spend time with a few buddies from back home for the weekend if they feel like doing a road trip to Montreal haha.



If you have the weekend off, people can visit you on or off the Garrison.  If its on the Garrison, there are places you will not be able to take them (like, your quarters).  If you leave the Garrison, and your friends/boyfriend/ girlfriend or someone comes to visit, the CF isn't particularly concerned about that.  

As always, you'd be smart to not get into trouble at the hotel and/or bars, etc.


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## smale436 (20 Nov 2008)

When I had my first weekend off for basic training, I did the usual things people do on their first weekend off. Hit up the rippers in Barrie, go out with all the boys to the clubs, hit the mall, etc. It was all well and good, but after the weekend was over I felt hungover, tired, and not as impressed as I thought I would be. And then it was back to the grind and getting up at 530. 
       The next three weekends off, I booked a hotel room for myself (and didn't tell anyone where), ordered a pizza, bought a case of beer, and soaked in the hot tub. The hotel three weeks in a row was a bit expensive, but seeing you have no opportunity to spend money during the first month made it a non-issue. TRUST ME, it was the BEST three weekends during the whole of BMQ. Granted the bar scene no longer did it for me, but the opportunity to unwind my own way was great for my sanity. If you go that route, ask the hotel if they have DND rates. Many do. 

        As for not causing trouble in the hotel, here's a tip. If a platoonmate is turning the age of drinking/majority and other platoonmates decide to congregate in his hotel room while he is in the bathroom "getting to know" the escort they hired as a birthday present to him, don't stick around to find out how it turns out.


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## Binder (20 Nov 2008)

hahaha!  a tip from experience??  A very GOOD tip, indeed.


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## smale436 (20 Nov 2008)

No, not from experience. Just from hearing the stories after everyone returned to the shacks for roll call on Sunday afternoon. While they were engaged in that (albeit in the same hotel as me) I was spending my own relaxing night with a certain Mr A. Keith's.


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## fire_guy686 (20 Nov 2008)

CDNAIRFORCE said:
			
		

> As for not causing trouble in the hotel, here's a tip. If a platoonmate is turning the age of drinking/majority and other platoonmates decide to congregate in his hotel room while he is in the bathroom "getting to know" the escort they hired as a birthday present to him, don't stick around to find out how it turns out.




When did you do your BMQ?? That sounds like an awfully familiar story. That didn't happen at the Howard Johnson on Dunlop by any chance did it??


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## smale436 (21 Nov 2008)

Early 2006 and as far as I know it was at the Travelodge on Bayfield next door to the Kozlov Mall.


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## fire_guy686 (21 Nov 2008)

CDNAIRFORCE said:
			
		

> Early 2006 and as far as I know it was at the Travelodge on Bayfield next door to the Kozlov Mall.



Ok. We had something practically identical happen on my BMQ in Barrie as well. Mine was late 05 and we graduated Early Dec.


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## Binder (21 Nov 2008)

I can recall, on one weekend break at a hotel, I saw one of my male fellow-recruits enter his hotel room with another female-recruit who wasn't his pregnant wife...let me say, it was an awkward moment for both of us when we looked into each other's eyes for a split second!  So, uh, weekends off are great but remember to keep your head down if you're doing the naughty  >


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## Lil_T (21 Nov 2008)

Binder said:
			
		

> I can recall, on one weekend break at a hotel, I saw one of my male fellow-recruits enter his hotel room with another female-recruit who wasn't his pregnant wife...let me say, it was an awkward moment for both of us when we looked into each other's eyes for a split second!  So, uh, weekends off are great but remember to keep your head down if you're doing the naughty  >



oh that's klassy.  how about maybe just NOT cheating on your SO?  Just because you're away from your dearest, you're not given the license to go out and jump on the next available warm body.    *sorry, hit a bit of a nerve*


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## George Wallace (21 Nov 2008)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> oh that's klassy.  how about maybe just NOT cheating on your SO?  Just because you're away from your dearest, you're not given the license to go out and jump on the next available warm body.    *sorry, hit a bit of a nerve*



Really!  What is to say she wasn't there to get some booze or something else that he had picked up for her, perhaps homework, or anything other than pleasure.....sex...if you want.  It could have been totally innocent, as showing her photos of his kids.......or perhaps it was just animal lust.  Do you really care?


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## Lil_T (21 Nov 2008)

I'm just taking it the way Binder wrote it 



> I can recall, on one weekend break at a hotel, I saw one of my male fellow-recruits enter his hotel room with another female-recruit who wasn't his pregnant wife...let me say, it was an awkward moment for both of us when we looked into each other's eyes for a split second.  *So, uh, weekends off are great but remember to keep your head down if you're doing the naughty  *



It _could_ have been totally innocent George, but, in my experience innocent people don't tend to behave guiltily.  That's all.    Do I care?  Well, I put myself in the position of the wife for a moment, and I must say that if MY husband behaved that way we'd have serious issues.  I think a better question would have been - Is that any of my business?  To which the answer is obviously no.


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## George Wallace (21 Nov 2008)

Lil_T said:
			
		

> ......... in my experience innocent people don't tend to behave guiltily.



Neither of us were there, but you can see how this "story" is already developing in the retelling.


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## Lil_T (21 Nov 2008)

indeed.


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## MedTechStudent (22 Nov 2008)

Week 10, Friday, everyone is all pumped up for the weekend and the gas hut.  Things are great, weekends planned, weddings to attend, family to see, etc etc.  At 10:00 we walked into a hall and shredded our leave passes because two idiots threw out half full bottles of Coke into the garbage on our floor.  Big no no on the food and garbage.

Thats how fast your weekends can leave you.

Do what ever you like, just know that shit can sometimes hit the fan.

Good luck!

Kyle


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## Lil_T (22 Nov 2008)

well now that just sucks.


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## fire_guy686 (22 Nov 2008)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> Things are great, weekends planned, weddings to attend, family to see, etc etc.  At 10:00 we walked into a hall and shredded our leave passes because two idiots threw out half full bottles of Coke into the garbage on our floor.  Big no no on the food and garbage.



That sounds like my SQ course just it was as a joke and not serious like your situation. We finally come to the first weekend we can have off. Friday at 3:30 they call us all into the hallway, sit us down. The Course WO comes in with a bunch of leave passes, and shreds them. Proceeds to ream us out, etc. Then at the very end he says so I want you all to remember this. Don't do anything stupid this weekend, look out for each other if you go to the bars and be safe. Yells at a MCpl to bring out the leave real leaves passes.


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## MedTechStudent (22 Nov 2008)

Oh ya it was dreadful.  One by one we all walked to this shredder built INTO the wall, and slid them in.  With the Pl Comd standing there watching us come to attention and shred away our freedom.  Oh well, lesson learned I guess!


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## Drag (22 Nov 2008)

We lost a weekend once due to an individual buy thoring knives the weekend before and leaving them in his drawers


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Nov 2008)

D3 said:
			
		

> We lost a weekend once due to an individual buy thoring knives the weekend before and leaving them in his drawers



I hope he didn't cut anything...oh you mean DRESSER drawers...gotcha.


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## fire_guy686 (22 Nov 2008)

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> Oh ya it was dreadful.  One by one we all walked to this shredder built INTO the wall, and slid them in.  With the Pl Comd standing there watching us come to attention and shred away our freedom.  Oh well, lesson learned I guess!



Yep, s*** happens. I'm sure it won't your last lost weekend either.


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## LukerB (26 Nov 2008)

Well, this thread got just a little off topic. But I think I get the just of it, thanks guys!

As a side note I write my aptitude and do my medical on Monday! Very excited for that, I'll let you all know how it goes in the recruiting sections for sure.

Thanks again,
Luke.


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## TDV_Valor (3 Feb 2009)

Are BMQ weekends eligible for high school credentials? (credits)

Thanks,


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## PMedMoe (3 Feb 2009)

I think it depends on the school but there are many that offer credits for it.  Ask your teacher/principal/guidance counselor.

Edit to add links:

http://www.armee.gc.ca/lf/english/6_1_1.asp?id=2863

http://www.peel.edu.on.ca/student/learning/Armyreserve.htm

http://www.ucdsb.on.ca/News/Current+News/Military+Co-op.htm


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## Sukintu (3 Feb 2009)

You can't get credits for the WEEKEND bmq, but you CAN for the highschool Co-op program.
You have to go through your school to get the credits


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## xbowhntr (16 Feb 2009)

I noticed that the last train on Friday nights leaves the Dorval station at 6:30pm. Is there any chance of making this train on weekends off. I am trying to decide wether or not to take my truck down with me. I am planning on coming home once or twice and was curious on my transportation options.

Thanks


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## RCDtpr (16 Feb 2009)

Doubtful.  I don't know how far Dorval is from St. Jean but when you factor lessons ending at 430-5ish.  Then you have to turn in weapons.  My course usually wasn't on our own time until 530-6.


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## Lil_T (16 Feb 2009)

Oh boo that sucks.  looks like I will be taking the car with me then.


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## ModlrMike (16 Feb 2009)

You may also be restricted in how far away from St Jean you're allowed to be.


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## nickhd (3 Mar 2009)

Hi, I know there has been a thread concerning this but it's from 2003 so things have probably changed since then.  

I am doing the 3 training courses this summer back to back.  The problem is that I am moving at the beggining of july.  I was wondering if I'll be able to get back from Quebec city to Montreal on week ends to help out the girlfriend...


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Mar 2009)

That will be wholly dependant on the type of courses, the duration of the courses, the course syllabus, and most of all your course staff. No one can tell you with any sort of certainty what you'll be able to do at that time, under those circumstances. 

It wouldn't even be a good guess to try.


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## George Wallace (3 Mar 2009)

nickhd said:
			
		

> Hi, I know there has been a thread concerning this but it's from 2003 so things have probably changed since then.



They haven't changed that much.  Most of the info you have already read, if any, should still be valid.


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## p2shanmu (23 Oct 2009)

Hi Guys,
I was just wondering are we allowed to take a weekend leave from the BMQ? I know there is no leave for the first 4 weeks,  but what about after that? Can we spend a night out of the base on a weekend? This nothing like relationships but for some religious festival reasons.
Thanks


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## FDO (23 Oct 2009)

You MAY be allowed a weekend off. It will depend on your course staff. They COULD authorize an over nighter or they may tell you you are confined to base for the weekend. If it's a religious event or not training MUST come first.


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## MikeL (23 Oct 2009)

Yes at some point during your BMQ you will be given weekends off. But there will be geographical restrictons as to how far away from the base you can go, etc. Also if you course is a bag of hammers an fails inspections, etc don't expect to have guarenteed weekends off.


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## ajp (23 Oct 2009)

I remember a leave on my QL2 in Wainwright....all you had to do to go out Saturday night was to be able to stand by your bed and state your SN, we were even allowed to be drunk to do it....and some failed.


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## kadrury (23 Oct 2009)

I know staff at st-jean who have taken away weekend leave at the snap of a finger. If it happens to you dont take it personally.


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## armchair_throwaway (23 Oct 2009)

I did the reserve summer BMQ, which is 4 weeks. I assumed we wouldn't get any of the weekends off, submitted a memo to my chain of command well in advance that I would like to take a Sat morning off to attend a job interview. They accepted the memo and granted the morning off. When that weekend arrived, it turns out everyone got the weekend off anyway due to our weekly performance, so I didn't have to miss any classes.

So definitely try writing a memo. The worst that can happen is to be denied.


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## Cadaren (24 Oct 2009)

no memo is required at CFLRS, just submit your leave pass the wedneday before the weekend and you'll know if it's been approved or not...that is if you don't loose that weekend and your done your indoc.


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## Eye In The Sky (26 Oct 2009)

That could differ between platoons/PAT/WPC types, etc.  Also, the question was asked about leave WRT to a religious festival.  Assuming that it is a legit type of "festival" (I have no idea what is/is not), the CoC might do it if it was a specific legitimate request re: religion, given the PC state we find ourselves in.

A memo might be the difference between getting it and not getting it, provided it is properly staffed.  I recently put in for my 2 x days Special (Relocation) Leave IAW the CF Leave Policy Manual for Attached Postings.  It was approved.  If there wasn't a memo to substantiate the request, it probably would have been denied or handed back with the comments "staff this properly".


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## ajp (27 Oct 2009)

EITS - of course with experience and your meticulous habits it was done right the first time.  And where are you going?  My situation is no change unless I get my preferred  task next year...then I'll be all smiles.


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## Eye In The Sky (27 Oct 2009)

Well, it didn't come back covered in red, so I'll assume the Minute Sheet and memo were "acceptable".  

Just heading to 1CFFTS (Winnipeg) for a long, cold winter...


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## ajp (27 Oct 2009)

Enjoy that....I asked (but have no word on) for Vancouver APS 2010


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## Gary D. in SK (29 Oct 2009)

You're guaranteed to be CB'd during indoc, and again at the end of week 6 being duty week, and also Friday nights when you get back from Farnham.  But there is a pretty good chance you won't get all of the rest off.  My platoon got a total of 6 weekends off in 14 weeks.  If you want a specific weekend make sure you submit a memo as that'll be your golden ticket if your platoon get's CB'd, but no guarantees it will get approved, but at least you'll know in advance.


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## Awesomedude (27 Mar 2010)

The situation is: Im a shift worker, and I work 7 on 4 off usally.

anyways, in previous years it has been no problem for me to book my yearly things to be green such as dental and 
c7 ranges and what not durring a normal working day. 

this year, my sgt/WO has made it so I do first aid, dental, c7, 9mm(even though its not needed), PFET all on my days off and told everyone they will not be given leave to make up for the lost weekend time. (5 days so far)

Is there a policy on this or is it just suck it up your in the army.




[Edit to Title - GW]


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## AmmoTech90 (27 Mar 2010)

There is guidance in the CF Leave Manual regarding shift work. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/lea-con/doc/cflpm-mprcfc-eng.pdf



> Section 2.8 Shift Work
> 2.8.01 Scheduling
> Shift workers may follow a schedule that differs from a Monday to Friday working week but it is a schedule nonetheless. In scheduling the working days of a shift worker, the CO is responsible for specifically identifying both the working and non-working days so as to ensure that an equivalent amount of time off for weekends and statutory holidays is provided to shift workers as is provided to CF members working a Monday to Friday working week.
> 2.8.02 Weekend time off equivalent
> ...



So basically you should get 2 days off for every 5 days worked.  It does not specify hours, so it is up to the CO to say how long a working day is.  Of course the demands of the service exist, and in most cases not getting 2 days off (weekend) for every 5 days worked should be the exception, not the rule.  If you have to work the occasional six days on/one day off then it is suck it up, if it become the normal that is something that should be addressed.


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## Occam (27 Mar 2010)

Canadian Forces Leave Manual, para 2.8.01

_Shift workers may follow a schedule that differs from a Monday to Friday working week but it is a schedule nonetheless. In scheduling the working days of a shift worker, the CO is responsible for specifically identifying both the working and non-working days so as to ensure that an equivalent amount of time off for weekends and statutory holidays is provided to shift workers as is provided to CF members working a Monday to Friday working week._

If they schedule this stuff during your scheduled days off, then they owe you compensatory time off.  

As a side note, if you have to drive your PMV to attend this training, I'd claim the high rate of kilometres (less the distance from your home to your regular place of work and back) under CFTDI, just for them being jerks about it.  You're entitled, regardless.


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## Awesomedude (27 Mar 2010)

they usally get everyone to drive to work and then take vans from there so they don't have to pay everyone for the kilometers. 

Im only bitching because they would never make a day shift worker come in on a saturday or sunday to do extra training but when its a shift worker its like suck it up your comming in on your days off.


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## George Wallace (28 Mar 2010)

Awesomedude said:
			
		

> this year, my sgt/WO has made it so I do first aid, dental, c7, 9mm(even though its not needed), PFET all on my days off and told everyone they will not be given leave to make up for the lost weekend time. (5 days so far)



Please tell me that you don't expect the world to revolve around you.  Booking of ranges, First Aid Crses, Dental Appts, and other classes are not made easily.  If they are booked on a day that you may have "off" then don't be surprised that you may be "recalled" to come in and attend them.  You are getting paid very well to serve your country 24 and 7, and this is one of the facts of life you will have to face in this job.  Even Occam can agree that having a Lve Pass in your hand, does not guarantee that you can not have it cancelled.

I am sure that many here would also appreciate you using some of those writing skills you should have learned in school, to make your post a little easier to read.  (You may read our views on this in the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines.


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## Klinkaroo (28 Mar 2010)

Also if you look it, you work 7 days on 4 days off... That is double the weekend time that day workers get for 2 extra days of work. If they take a few days out of it for some training, you are still getting your equivalent of 5 days work for 2 days off.


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## Greymatters (28 Mar 2010)

Some of you seem pretty quick to tell this shift worker to suck it up.  Having done 6on/4off shift work for a year at a time, I can tell you its not as simple as it sounds.  You usually cant get any military admin done while you're on shift, you cant get any personal shopping or admin done, and you're on call at a moments notice so you cant really plan any activities that might get in teh way.  By the end of 6 days you are usually bagged and spending your first day catching up on sleep.  You often spend the other 'off days' coming in to the base and getting medical, dental, pay, clothing and other issues sorted.  plus you may be on backup in case someone else gets sick or deployed, often cutting your four days short.  Four days off is supposed to mean four days off so that your work-related and personal-related admini doesnt stack up and interfere with your duties, and when you do work your shift you can focus on the work and not other things.

Having said that, some things cant be avoided - like group-related training such as firing ranges, first aid, etc, but any time this occurs on a shift workers day off, its not 'a suck it up soldier', its a 'suck it up supervisor'.  If it happens once in a while its no big issue, and your average soldier will overlook it without compensation, but if the supervisor continues this policy they will find their members will turn towards the rulebooks and demand either official compensation or informal days off in compensation.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (28 Mar 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Please tell me that you don't expect the world to revolve around you.



Was there a need for this?   He asked what I considered a very valid question, one that I would definitely have if I were a shift worker and then the rules changed out of the blue.


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## Lex Parsimoniae (28 Mar 2010)

Awesomedude said:
			
		

> The situation is: Im a shift worker, and I work 7 on 4 off usally.


Effectively you are getting 1 day off for every 1.75 days worked.  The CF Leave Manual mandates that you get 1 day off for every 2.5 days worked.  Having to complete 5 days of refresher training per year during your offtime reduces your days worked to days off ratio very little and you are still doing better than somebody working a regular Mon-Fri shift.


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## Awesomedude (28 Mar 2010)

Im just going to forget about it because its over and done with for the most part. 

and to make things more clear for that gentlemen crusifying me

 "Booking of ranges, First Aid Crses, Dental Appts, and other classes are not made easily.  If they are booked on a day that you may have "off" then don't be surprised that you may be "recalled" to come in and attend them" 

its not that it so happens to be that its a day off because that is what works best for the range people or what not. Its they will not allow us to use our working days at all. I was booked in for c7 range on a day shift and they made me change it to my day off. Its the same as if you were told no you cant go on a friday your going to do it on saturday

and as far as admin, or going to supply it is frowned upon if I go durring my work hours, im supposed to take my lunch break or go in after/before work if I want to talk to the clerks or what not.


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## Ex-Dragoon (28 Mar 2010)

I would talk to your boss and get them to clarify your working hours that way in the future you may be able to avoid this.


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## Occam (28 Mar 2010)

If you take a look at my earlier post, in particular the part highlighted in yellow, it's easy to see that it's the CO's responsibility to identify working and non-working days.  Your unit standing orders should probably have a reference to shift workers.  I'd be very surprised if it didn't.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Booking of ranges, First Aid Crses, Dental Appts, and other classes are not made easily.



I'm not so sure about that.  Here in the NCR (as I'm sure you're aware), all individual training (range, FA, CBRN, PFET, etc.) gets booked by the member themselves.  The member is responsible for making sure they are green for all training, and they're responsible for doing the online booking.  Same at my last posting, as well.



> If they are booked on a day that you may have "off" then don't be surprised that you may be "recalled" to come in and attend them.  You are getting paid very well to serve your country 24 and 7, and this is one of the facts of life you will have to face in this job.  Even Occam can agree that having a Lve Pass in your hand, does not guarantee that you can not have it cancelled.



If they're "recalled", then compensatory time off is in order.  If one is recalled from authorized leave, then the days are credited back to the member (and the member is reimbursed for any out-of-pocket expense related to the recall).

Working days are working days, and non-working days are non-working days.  Never the twain shall meet.


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## George Wallace (28 Mar 2010)

Lex Parsimoniae said:
			
		

> Effectively you are getting 1 day off for every 1.75 days worked.  The CF Leave Manual mandates that you get 1 day off for every 2.5 days worked.  Having to complete 5 days of refresher training per year during your offtime reduces your days worked to days off ratio very little and you are still doing better than somebody working a regular Mon-Fri shift.



Many of us here have been in positions of working the normal work week of Monday through Friday, 0700 hrs to 1700 hrs, and have had times where we reported to work on a Monday, worked through a weekend, to end on the Friday of the week following, only to be given a Monday off for the weekend we lost.  

So ....Yes... You can see that many of us think this is just plain whining on the part of the OP.  If the OP doesn't like this, then perhaps they should try come civvie "shift work" instead of a career that demands dedication and pays one 24 and 7, 365 (366) days a year.  What other job gives you the benefits you already enjoy, including a lot of unrecorded time off to go to Medical, Dental, and misc other appointments?  

And yes Bruce, I felt it may have been warranted.  I have had to deal with too many young soldiers who have to large a sense of entitlement in the recent few weeks.


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## George Wallace (28 Mar 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> I'm not so sure about that.  Here in the NCR (as I'm sure you're aware), all individual training (range, FA, CBRN, PFET, etc.) gets booked by the member themselves.  The member is responsible for making sure they are green for all training, and they're responsible for doing the online booking.  Same at my last posting, as well.



This is in my opinion a dereliction of duty on the part of officers and Snr NCOs in the NCR.  A Pte should not have to book these things for themselves.




			
				Occam said:
			
		

> If they're "recalled", then compensatory time off is in order.  If one is recalled from authorized leave, then the days are credited back to the member (and the member is reimbursed for any out-of-pocket expense related to the recall).



Sorry, but I call BS on this.  CTO is NOT an authorized LEAVE.  

I would also like to see some documentation on this "reimbursed for any out-of-pocket expense related to the recall".


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## Zoomie (28 Mar 2010)

My former SAR job was shift work for 4 years.  As a scheduler it was my job to ensure that our members got 9 days off a month.  Those days were not necessarily Sat/Sun - nor were they in 2 day chunks.  If the schedule dictated that the member was going to receive less than 5 days off that month, the CO needed to be informed.

At my current M-F job - if I fly over the weekend (like I did this weekend and last) I take CTO days during the week.   I try and take them in the weeks following the weekend - but sometimes bank them until a long weekend does not impact the job.


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## Occam (28 Mar 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> This is in my opinion a dereliction of duty on the part of officers and Snr NCOs in the NCR.  A Pte should not have to book these things for themselves.



We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.  I see it as treating people as big boys and girls who can look at their Outlook calendar to see if there are any scheduling conflicts.  The online scheduling system makes it even easier.  You can see at a glance what days are available, and what days are already booked.



> Sorry, but I call BS on this.  CTO is NOT an authorized LEAVE.



Neither are Friday afternoon "sliders".  I would agree that it's not an official form of leave, but nevertheless, it is an integral part of doing business at every CF site I've had contact with.



> I would also like to see some documentation on this "reimbursed for any out-of-pocket expense related to the recall".



CBI 209.54

209.54 - REIMBURSEMENT OF EXPENSES WHEN RECALLED FROM OR ON CANCELLATION OF LEAVE

209.54(1) (Application) Subject to paragraph (2), an officer or non-commissioned member who is recalled to duty from leave in accordance with article 16.01 - Withholding of and Recall From Leave of the QR&O or whose approved leave has been cancelled for service reasons may be reimbursed for:

   1. transportation and travelling expenses in accordance with CBI 209.83 - Transportation and Travelling Expenses – Move of Officers and Non-commissioned Members on Posting or of Dependants for the member and, where applicable, their dependants to the place of duty from the place from which the member was recalled and for the return journey if the member resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which the member was recalled; and
   2. additional expenses resulting either from the cost of breaking contractual arrangements or cancellation fees that were made specifically for the purpose of an approved leave period.

209.54(2) (Submission of claims for reimbursement) Claims for reimbursement under paragraph (1) shall be submitted in accordance with orders and instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff.


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## captloadie (29 Mar 2010)

I think some of us who sit in an office all day long, or who are employed in positions that allow a little more freedom to get away from the desk have forgotten there are alot of jobs out there, especially those revolving around shiftwork, that don't allow for members to just pop out to do admin, or extra training.  They are needed to get the job done, so unfortunately, the training sometimes needs to be on done on days off. Should the OP have been given some CTO, probably, but once again, you only have X number of guys for a shift, and they are all needed, when do you give them CTO.


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## George Wallace (29 Mar 2010)

Occam

I knew you would find something like CBI 209.54.  Now what does it have to do with a person who has not been Posted or left the immediate area of his/her employment/place of duty on Leave?


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## CountDC (29 Mar 2010)

Something like this:

If the member has approved leave and has booked a flight based on that approved leave and that booking includes a cancellation fee then the member can claim that cancellation fee when the leave is cancelled on them. 

What some here seem to miss is that often shift workers do a 4 day week because instead of the 8 hour day they are on for 12 hours. If that is the case here then when doing all your calculations of time worked and time off compared to your normal mon-fri worker take into account that the OP working 7 on is working the equivalant of 10.5 days. I used to work a 4 on 3 off shift myself in which my on day started at 0730 and didn't end until 1 or 2 in the morning with the occasional later time.  When I did time keeping at CE we had the 12 hour shift workers that did the 4/3 week too.

So ..... as no one else has asked - how long is your shift?

Almost forgot - time off for doctor and dental appointments is not unearned time off.  In fact it is not even time off - they are mandatory periods that form part of our duty for the day. I am required as part of my duty to see a dentist every year and attend any follow up appointments that he makes.  I am required to report to the hospital every 2 years, have a full medical done and attend any follow up appointments the doctor makes.  If I have any health issues that requires a doctors attention then I am required to go see the doctor and follow his/her directives.  This is all part of my duty as a member of the CF - maintaining my health so that I am fully employable - not time off.


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## George Wallace (29 Mar 2010)

Just to add a question to that; do you include Bank Appts, appts to buy furniture at the Brick, extended lunches at Kelsey's, buying a car/bike, appts at the garage for auto maint, booking that trip to Cuba, picking up groceries/dry cleaning, picking up the kids at Day Care, taking the kids to hockey/soccer/doctor/dentist, etc. as all part of the time off that one would normally get?  I hope you don't consider these, and many others, as duty related.  They are little perks that many CF organizations allow if permission is granted by a supervisor.  

As for CBI 209.54; it relates to the examples you have given, not to the worker who is called in from his/her residence within the Base/Unit/Formation area.


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## CountDC (29 Mar 2010)

no cause they are not part of my duty - dental and medicals for myself are, CF regulations require me to have them done.

The example I have given is the member called in from the base/unit/formation area - the member has not travelled yet - they have merely booked the trip and then been informed their leave is cancelled.  Paid one because the member was suddenly required to attend a conference they previously were not required for.  Have paid several at christmas time when the member was placed on duty after already having their leave approved.


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## Greymatters (29 Mar 2010)

CountDC said:
			
		

> Almost forgot - time off for doctor and dental appointments is not unearned time off.  In fact it is not even time off - they are mandatory periods that form part of our duty for the day. I am required as part of my duty to see a dentist every year and attend any follow up appointments that he makes.  I am required to report to the hospital every 2 years, have a full medical done and attend any follow up appointments the doctor makes.  If I have any health issues that requires a doctors attention then I am required to go see the doctor and follow his/her directives.  This is all part of my duty as a member of the CF - maintaining my health so that I am fully employable - not time off.



Too true - if the only available time slot happens to be when you are on or coming on night shift, well, it sucks to be you kind of thing...


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## Occam (29 Mar 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Occam
> 
> I knew you would find something like CBI 209.54.  Now what does it have to do with a person who has not been Posted or left the immediate area of his/her employment/place of duty on Leave?



If you knew I was going to quote it, why'd you ask?   

I think you misread it, though - "a person who has not been posted" has nothing to do with it.  A person who is recalled to duty from leave is entitled to reimbursement for transportation and travelling expenses in accordance with CBI 209.83 -  "Transportation and Travelling Expenses – Move of Officers and Non-commissioned Members on Posting or of Dependants"  (I added the quotes for clarity - the text between the quotes is the title of CBI 209.83).

CountDC gave a pretty good example of that particular CBI in common usage. 

There is other policy dealing with the issue.  For example, I'm a day worker, Mon-Fri.  If I get called in to work during silent hours, or on weekends, that's outside my normal working routine.  As a matter of policy, our unit pays transportation expenses (taxi, PMV or otherwise) for someone recalled in that situation.  They also pay for a meal if the period recalled crosses over a meal hour.  My previous unit did the same.  

If I'm scheduled for range training, I claim (on an MTEC) kilometres to and from Connaught (less the distance to and from my regular place of work, since it's along the way) because there's no transportation to the ranges and I have to use my PMV.

All this to say that yes, I do understand when there are occasions when scheduling training during a non-working day (which incidentally makes it a working day) is unavoidable.  Those occasions should be the exception rather than the rule.


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## George Wallace (29 Mar 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> There is other policy dealing with the issue.  For example, I'm a day worker, Mon-Fri.  If I get called in to work during silent hours, or on weekends, that's outside my normal working routine.  As a matter of policy, our unit pays transportation expenses (taxi, PMV or otherwise) for someone recalled in that situation.  They also pay for a meal if the period recalled crosses over a meal hour.  My previous unit did the same.
> 
> If I'm scheduled for range training, I claim (on an MTEC) kilometres to and from Connaught (less the distance to and from my regular place of work, since it's along the way) because there's no transportation to the ranges and I have to use my PMV.
> 
> All this to say that yes, I do understand when there are occasions when scheduling training during a non-working day (which incidentally makes it a working day) is unavoidable.  Those occasions should be the exception rather than the rule.



In these cases the funds are out of Unit budgets.  A CO can just as easily say "No". if it becomes a budgetary problem.

And yes i understand what you two are saying about CBI 209.54 and I know where it applies; but as I said, and I believe the OP never insinuated that they were going on Leave, with of area bookings (something that you two seem to have focused on), so this would not apply.  There is no requirement to reimburse (financially) someone for sitting at home on their couch should they be "recalled".

I guess you guys have never experienced an "Alert Recall" or "Snowball".  No one was ever reimbursed financially or for a fact in any other way, other than perhaps getting off work a little early the next day.  As I said, you are in a business where you are paid 24 and 7, 365 (366) days a year.


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## Occam (29 Mar 2010)

Nope, never had an "Alert Recall" or "Snowball".

However, if memory serves me correctly, if we got recalled while we were Ready Duty Ship, I do believe we were reimbursed for travel expenses if you were stuck for a ride to the ship.  It was a long time ago, and I'm really foggy on it.  Any Navy types remember if there is (was) a MARCORD dealing with recalls for RDS?


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## MedTechStudent (29 Mar 2010)

I would just like to add, 
Regardless of the official policies on time off for working weekends, recalls and so on, I *know* that I work fewer days in the military than I would *any*where else for equal money.  If I add up all the Stat days, automatic 20 days leave, and then the countless times I've had the pleasure of answering the following question...

"What are you doing right now?"
"Nothing Sgt..."
"Well don't do it here...see you Monday"

Gotta love early Fridays  ...minus working at the clinic, bloody full day Fridays


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## Bruce Monkhouse (30 Mar 2010)

Just another note on the joy of being a shift worker, just found out yesterday I lost an hour pay because I worked nights all weekend of March 12/13/14 and since the clocks moved ahead one hour during your Saturday shift......

First time I've had that done to me in 21 years.


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## PMedMoe (30 Mar 2010)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Just another note on the joy of being a shift worker, just found out yesterday I lost an hour pay because I worked nights all weekend of March 12/13/14 and since the clocks moved ahead one hour during your Saturday shift......
> 
> First time I've had that done to me in 21 years.


Bruce, make sure you're on when the clocks go ahead and ask for the extra hour's pay.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (30 Mar 2010)

An hour and a half.......overtime ya know.


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## CountDC (30 Mar 2010)

There was/is something in place for paying members called into the ship that have to take taxis.  I believe it was tied to when the recall was done and what your job was.  For example a recall issued at 0500h on Sat would see those required to be onboard for fire up paid for taking taxis while the rest of us would be expected to take our normal mode to get there as the ship had 8 hours to be ready to go (which for a RDS means having the bodies report in as everything else should already be done). If you showed up at 1100h you were not getting paid for a taxi.

Back to original question - perhaps you can make an argument for short leave?  It is up to the CO to decide if he wants to give it or not.


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## aesop081 (30 Mar 2010)

You guys make shift work sound so complicated........ :


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## dapaterson (30 Mar 2010)

To answer the question in the title of this thread:



> time off for working weekends, is their a policy on this at all?



Yes, there is a policy.  It's called leadership.


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## CountDC (30 Mar 2010)

now that's a good answer.


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## SupersonicMax (30 Mar 2010)

dapaterson's answer is probably the best answer, however when leadership fails to take care of the interest of their subbordinates, section 2.8 of the CF Leave Policy Manual (page 18) should take care of the issue.


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## Greymatters (30 Mar 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I guess you guys have never experienced an "Alert Recall" or "Snowball".  No one was ever reimbursed financially or for a fact in any other way, other than perhaps getting off work a little early the next day.  As I said, you are in a business where you are paid 24 and 7, 365 (366) days a year.



Im not sure about the other fellow, but yes I have done these things.  I spent just as much time rushing into base as anyone else for emergencies or working round the clock for exercises and real-world emergencies.  Ive finished my work day and then worked extra hours because its needed many a day without any bitching or expectation of compensation.  

This is not the same as shift work.  Here is an example of the kind of schedule I used to work at one position.

Day shift you are up at 4:30, on the road by 5 AM, at work by 5:30, getting your shit together by 5:45, getting your handover brief and then ON shift by 6 AM.  Food is delivered to your post. During weekdays you are allowed to leave only if someone is there to relieve you.  On weekends you can pop out for a few minutes for a smoke or bathroom break, during which you carry your cell phone so if someone cant get the office phone at least they can get you by cell.  Your job is to stay there and do your work, not pop out for munchies or a chat with the security guard.  Unlike some other shift workers, you have to stay awake your whole shift, not sneak in a good 6 hours of rack time, because you are reading reviewing and writing reports. You dont get to go to the gym or appointments during this time.  Shift ends at 6PM, handover takes 15-30 minutes depending on how much happened during your shift.  You are usually out the door no later than 6:30, drive home by 7 PM and youve got a couple hours to sort out your personal or family issues before its rack time and ready for the next shift.  

Is it complicated? No, its dead boring most of the time.  But it severely restricts what you can get done in a day when youre in before anything opens and out after most businesses close.  Anyhting that needs to be done in person has to be done on off days. 

At another position, I worked a regular shift, but was on call at all hours and weekends, mostly because for about a 1.5 year period I was the only person present and qualified to do the work (short staffed and deployments sucked away the other staff).  By the end of a four year posting I had 64 days of ETO because I came in at any time I was needed, never asked for compensation, but which I never got because I got posted.  

Leading to the comment from dapaterson, leadership is needed if senior NCMs and officers dont give lower ranks time off for doing excessively extra work, even if the ranks dont ask for it and soldier on.  When soldiers are busting their butt to get work done, its up to them to make sure soldiers get time off for doing that little bit extra.  It was a lesson I applied often as a senior NCM.


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## eurowing (31 Mar 2010)

6% and 4% of CF pay is  the "overtime factor" for NCMs and officers respectively. See  http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/po-as/index-eng.asp under the "Military Factor"

CTO is illegal, short leave is the correct answer to reward people for overtime and dedicated service.  I had to do a lot of reading on this several years ago as I inherited a section that was out of control and logging CTO by the hour. Turning them in the right direction initially involved a great deal of anger on their part as they had a culture of entitlement.  It was felt I was taking something away that they had a right to. 

Also for longer TDs' I am sure there is an official DND policy on time off prior and on return. I don't have access to that info now, but if IIRC it was 24 hrs off prior and 48 on return for admin purposes.

I recall General Boyle (as CDS) during a town hall in Cold lake saying he wanted the CF to go to a 1 for 1 system of CTO!  That would have been impossible to handle without a lot more people.


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## CountDC (31 Mar 2010)

Don't get carried away with the CTO title - most people use it instead of the correct term short leave.

For time off while going on TD there is a policy  - the Leave Manual

Canadian Forces Leave Policy Manual
Section 5.11 Special Leave (Relocation)

5.11.01 Policy

....In addition, when a member is away from home on duty for operations and training exercises, career courses or incremental taskings within or outside Canada, Special Leave (Relocation) may be granted at the discretion of the CO.

Mine refused it as he didn't belief that a month away from the family warranted leave so I took annual instead.


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## captloadie (31 Mar 2010)

I don't think most people confuse CTO with short leave. You need a leave pass signed by the CO for short leave, with a max of 2 per month. CTO is almost always buckshee, and if put on a leave pass is usually called weekend leave with a note in the remarks column.


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## CountDC (31 Mar 2010)

ok let me put that another way

In my experience most people use CTO vice Short leave as every year I send back lots of leave passes for correction that have CTO indicated on them when the member is going on short leave.  Almost every time someone enquires about the policy on short leave they use the term CTO and wave off the correction with "whatever they are calling it these days". I have even corrected myself on occassion when I have slipped back into using the term CTO which was commonly used everywhere I have been for short leave up to around 2003 or 2004 I believe.

As for bucksheet - I have never heard it called CTO, it was always bucksheet.  We used to keep a signed leave pass for our staff and our supervisors had one for us.  If we went bucksheet and something happened then the leave pass was submitted.  Don't know if anyone is still doing this but wouldn't be surprised if they are.


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## SupersonicMax (31 Mar 2010)

eurowing said:
			
		

> I recall General Boyle (as CDS) during a town hall in Cold lake saying he wanted the CF to go to a 1 for 1 system of CTO!  That would have been impossible to handle without a lot more people.



So, if I work Monday to Friday, then I am tasked to fly over the whole week end, would it not be reasonable for me to get 2 days off to compensate for the loss of my week end?


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## dapaterson (31 Mar 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> So, if I work Monday to Friday, then I am tasked to fly over the whole week end, would it not be reasonable for me to get 2 days off to compensate for the loss of my week end?



If you want a M-F 9-5 job, put in your release. 

Certainly, leadership means not overtasking your subordinates and giving them time when it's possible.  Sometimes it's not possible.  I know one individual who was part of a three person det providing a 24/7 duty watch on top of their regular work - with one of the three being the boss, who did not draw a watch shift.  That went on for 2 months before anyone was able to get a day off.


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## SupersonicMax (1 Apr 2010)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> If you want a M-F 9-5 job, put in your release.



Did I say I want a 9-5 job, M-F?  No, I said I want a reasonable amount of time off.  Whatever crusty old dinosaurs think, taking care of your people is what will keep them onboard, that includes time off and money, amongst others.  The old "serving your country should be above and beyong money and time off" cannot be applied anymore.  If people can have a better life somewhere else, you bet they will walk away.   I joined the military because I wanted to serve sure.  But I would not have done it if there weren't benefits to me.  

Before anyone jumps on me, my normal work day is around 10-12 hours and it can be very very odd working hours.  Pretty far from the M-F 9-5.  And I never bitch because I don't get time off for working more than the 8 hours pretty much everyday.


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## armyvern (1 Apr 2010)

Hmmm, we were still using CTO (on leave passes too) at my past Unit. 

Sometimes, 2 short days a month just doesn't cut it when pers are working 16 hour days. If my pers worked both days on the weekend - they'd get 1 day CTO. So, 1/2 time. Mind you, a ceratin section was working 0730 - 1600 every day, then coming back in from 1730 - 2130 every night on top of working through the weekends ... as a _habit_ just trying to keep up with the workload due to manning shortages caused by op requirements.

For those saying that it no longer exists; can any one of you lay out for me exactly how then, my ex managed to take 5 days annual, the stats, the 4 shorts, and the specials ... (the exact same as me) at Christmas time and manage to pull off an extra week and a half or two weeks of 'time off' for "Block leave" pass than I did? His leave pass said "CTO" ... you know for those weekends spent in the field. It happened every year, and we were married for 17, same amount of annual, shorts, specials, stats ... but him off at least a full week prior.
____________________________________

For the OP: there should be a policy _*in writing *_ from your Wg/BComd laying out the process for what is to occur when you are required to work on a scheduled "non-working" day as a shift-worker there. 

Back when I was working shift in Trenton, all of our appts were scheduled on and during our day shifts. They couldn't schedule us during our night shifts for medical/dental etc. 

We worked 12 hour shifts: 

0700-1900 (day shift); and
1900-0700 (night shift) on a 4 on/4 off basis: 4 days, 4 off, 4 nights, 4 off. They had 4 days every 16 days into which med/dents were scheduled to be done. Sounds harsh, but we were working 48 hours per 8 days = 192 hours per month ... and of course, working stats was normal if your shift "day on" fell into one. No shorts, no specials and no stats over holidays or anytime else for shifties. That's exactly why the Comd is supposed to have a written policy in place to ensure that shifties are compensated for their "off days" worked.

Mind you, it is sometimes necessary to 'work" off-days in emergencies or unavoidable circumstances - but that is supposed to be the exception and not the rule as your boss seems to have made it.


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## Greymatters (1 Apr 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> So, if I work Monday to Friday, then I am tasked to fly over the whole week end, would it not be reasonable for me to get 2 days off to compensate for the loss of my week end?



This is pretty dependent on what's going on in the background, and take into consideration that this is a bastardized informal/formal system that is applied haphazrdly and differently throughout the CF: 

If its a real-world emergency like a terrorist threat, aid to civil power, search and rescue op, flood, ice storm or disaster in another country, then no, you do not get days off, this is what you get paid the big bucks for.

If its a training exercise that everone else is particpating in, then no, you dont get days off, this is also what you get paid for.

If you alone are called in after working a 'work shift' to work the weekend to replace someone else on their 'work shift' (due to whatever reason), it is normal to expect some sort of day or two off in compensation, either officially or unofficially.

If you work a regular shift and work extra lengthy hours when demanded, not one hour but several hours, and not every time, but once in a while, you may get a 'day off' or if youve got a good SNCO/OC he'll give the whole unit the afternoon off during 'slow' days.  In army units this translates to playing cards for the afternoon while waiting for 4 PM before you can leave. 
  
However, if you are on deployment outside of Canada, you are not entitled to any days off - this is why we get the extra bucks, although I have heard of some support units maintaining this practice while on overseas tours.  Some of them, as has been noted on other threads, act like tourists rather than deployed soldiers.

I would caution however, that this is very dependent on the culture of the organization you are working for.  In most Air Force and support trades its normal to provide a day off in compensation.  In most Army trades its 'sucks to be you' for lower ranks, while senior ranks (SNCOs and officers) have the freedom of giving themselves a day off if they wish, although to their credit most dont.  Cant say for sure about navy units...


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## armyvern (1 Apr 2010)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> I would caution however, that this is very dependent on the culture of the organization you are working for.  In most Air Force and support trades its normal to provide a day off in compensation.  In most Army trades its 'sucks to be you' for lower ranks, while senior ranks (SNCOs and officers) have the freedom of giving themselves a day off if they wish, although to their credit most dont.  Cant say for sure about navy units...



Well, in all fairness -- I laid out the hours of the average shiftworker in my post below.

192 hours per month. The average CF mbr who isn't a shiftworker averages 40 hours / week @ 5 = 200 hours per month. Ergo, they are working an extra 8 hour day over the shiftworker every month = 12 days more per year.

BUT, they also get:

1) Christmas off;
2) New Years off;
3) Boxing Day off;
4) May 24 off;
5) Good Friday off;
6) Easter Monday off;
7) Labour Day off;
8) July 1st off;
9, 10, 11, 12) shorts at Christmas block leave; and
13, 14, 15) 3 Specials at Christmas block .

So, now they are "up" by at least 3 more days off per year --- not counting that week or so (4 or 5 more) CTO they get added on at Christmas to give them the extra week off, not counting the up to 20 more days short leave a year they could take (10 months @ 2/) that the shiftworker can not ... or just getting slid out early when there's nothing to do. Extended lunch hours (which shiftworkers do not get - they have to remain at work for their shift and are expected to port their meals with them to work). etc etc

So, which ones should be having all their official appts booked during "days off?"  Hmmmmmmm.

I always find it hilarious when pers seem to think that shiftworkers have it "so good" over everyone else; that's utterly false.

The grass certainly isn't always greener over there; there's a reason they aren't supposed to work on their scheduled off days ... and it certainly isn't because they get more time off than the average army guy.


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## Greymatters (1 Apr 2010)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Well, in all fairness -- I laid out the hours of the average shiftworker in my post below.
> 
> 192 hours per month. The average CF mbr who isn't a shiftworker averages 40 hours / week @ 5 = 200 hours per month. Ergo, they are working an extra 8 hour day over the shiftworker every month = 12 days more per year.



Very good point that I completely forgot about - while it sounds like fewer days, shift workers actually work more hours than most - although I would disagree with your calculation.

Most months have 4.5 weeks (22.5 work days x 8 hrs) so its actually 180 hours per month for regular workers, while a shift worker on 6/4 (18 work days x 12 hrs) is working 216 hours per month...

Over a year period its 52 weeks x 5 days x 8 hrs = 2080 hours for regular workers, but for 6/4 shift workers its 6 days x 36 shifts x 12 hrs = 2592 hours.  The numbers speak for themslves, and makes it pretty self-explanatory why some shift workers are so picky about their days off...


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## armyvern (1 Apr 2010)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> Very good point that I completely forgot about - while it sounds like fewer days, shift workers actually work more hours than most - although I would disagree with your calculation.
> 
> Most months have 4.5 weeks (22.5 work days x 8 hrs) so its actually 180 hours per month for regular workers, while a shift worker on 6/4 (18 work days x 12 hrs) is working 216 hours per month...
> 
> Over a year period its 52 weeks x 5 days x 8 hrs = 2080 hours for regular workers, but for 6/4 shift workers its 6 days x 36 shifts x 12 hrs = 2592 hours.  The numbers speak for themslves, and makes it pretty self-explanatory why some shift workers are so picky about their days off...



I just figured it out at 16 day cycles for the shift I stated below. 32 / month (2 cycles) = 5 weeks per month average for non-shifties.


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## LineJumper (1 Apr 2010)

Watching this thread I figure I actually had a compressed work week for 3/5 years in the big O.

 8)

edit for shades


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## Mandy55 (25 Sep 2011)

My fiance is currently in BMOQ in St Jean, Quebec. I'm having a really hard time, and I was wondering if anyone knows when they usually start getting weekends off, and how many he will get? I know there is a 4-5 week indoc period where he can't leave, but after that, how often will I be able to visit him?

I apologize if this has been answered already - I searched this site and didn't find the answer, and I checked a few Army Wife forums with no luck. Thank you.


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## aesop081 (25 Sep 2011)

Maybe every weekend, maybe none.............


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## 2010newbie (25 Sep 2011)

As posted above, it depends on the staff and performance of the platoon. That being said, it is usually the 5th weekend that is the first weekend off. Our staff told us after the weekend passed that a platoon has to really screw up to not get that 5th weekend off. Also, it seemed as though the 6th weekend most of the platoons this summer were on duty which limited the ability to leave CFLRS. After that, there wasn't any pattern and we wouldn't know until 5 pm on Friday whether or not we had leave for the weekend.


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## Mandy55 (25 Sep 2011)

Thanks for the replies.
He just flew out to Montreal on Saturday. When do you think he will get a chance to call home? I know they are kept very busy, so is it unlikely to hope for a call within the first 5 weeks?


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## Ayrsayle (25 Sep 2011)

You are in luck - I am currently on said BMOQ as we speak and can give you details. Typing from a phone so please bear with me. It is my understanding (had the briefing tonight) we will be able to call home and use personal phones even during this first period as long as our other duties are met. This may change however without warning.  Would you like me to find him and get him to call you? (grins)


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## Mandy55 (25 Sep 2011)

Thank you for the offer, Ayrsayle, but that's okay. He will call the first chance he gets. Unfortunately, he didn't take his cell phone because he assumed they would be taken away for those first 5 weeks.  So I guess I'll have to wait until he gets a chance to use the payphone (or whatever they have there).
Thanks so much for your reply.


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## PuckChaser (25 Sep 2011)

Mandy55 said:
			
		

> Thank you for the offer, Ayrsayle, but that's okay. He will call the first chance he gets. Unfortunately, he didn't take his cell phone because he assumed they would be taken away for those first 5 weeks.  So I guess I'll have to wait until he gets a chance to use the payphone (or whatever they have there).
> Thanks so much for your reply.



Unfortunately you're going to have to deal with periods without contact as a military spouse. The best way to deal with it, is to trust that he'll call as soon as he can, and that no news is good news. Trust me, he probably wants to talk to you more than you want to talk to him just to get out of course mode for even 5 minutes.


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## Mandy55 (25 Sep 2011)

I know  We talked about this before he left and I don't expect to hear from him for a long time. I'm just having a hard time right now and was hoping to hear some good news (though I know it's very unlikely).
For some reason, it makes me feel a little better to have talked to someone who is there with him, even though they might not know each other. I appreciate everyone replying, especially so quickly!


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## ballz (25 Sep 2011)

Did he leave Saturday as in yesterday or a week ago?

The first week or two is definitely the busiest (well... partly because you aren't used to managing your time the same way and whatnot as well), but after that I never had any real problems getting a phone call out... yeah, you're busy at night, but there's definitely 5 minutes to spare here and there for phone calls and such on pretty much any given night... the problem is a lot of people expect to be able to call home for an hour a night which is not only ridiculous but also blades all your buddies who are trying to get the night's work done.


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## Ayrsayle (25 Sep 2011)

We were all good and accounted for this evening. Save for the one individual who did not meet up with the group for the meeting. The warrant had words for him. Rest of us are fine (grins). Food is good, lines are long, and tomorrow is paperwork!  i'm sure he's good.


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## Mandy55 (25 Sep 2011)

He left yesterday. We were told at his Swearing In ceremony that there's not many phones, so there will be lots of guys who get homesick and are more desperate to call home first (unfortunately for me, he's not one of those guys). 
I have another question: Are they only able to use the phone after supper? I've seen a general schedule of their day, and I'm assuming they can't call home during lunch or between classes, correct?

Ayrsayle, can I ask how many recruits are there? I have no idea if it's 50, or more like 1,000. Also, I believe he has an iPod or something like that which has internet access. Would he be able to email me with that? Or are cell phones the only electronics allowed?


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## aesop081 (26 Sep 2011)

Mandy55 said:
			
		

> He left yesterday.



You need to learn to relax a bit. I mean that in the most constructive way possible. He only left yesterday.



> Are they only able to use the phone after supper?



Students are normaly pretty busy until 11pm in the initial stages of training. 



> and I'm assuming they can't call home during lunch or between classes, correct?



You are correct.



> I believe he has an iPod or something like that which has internet access. Would he be able to email me with that?



As far as i know, there is no Wifi in the quarters for him to use.


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## Mandy55 (26 Sep 2011)

Haha yes, I'm very emotional. I guess the first few days are the hardest. I was hoping he would be able to email me, since cell phones are allowed, but oh well. Do you think he would at least be able to keep his iPod, so he can have a little break from the course to listen to music?


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## PMedMoe (26 Sep 2011)

After doing a very quick search here, it seems the use of things like iPods, cell phones, etc, varies from course to course.  Some had them taken away for the first few weeks, some were allowed to have them after 6 pm and on weekends.


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## Scott (26 Sep 2011)

Speaking as someone who works away half of the time...I am always happy to see that my wife can make it through my time gone without a bunch of hand wringing and desperation for communication. We value what avenues we do get: a weekly phone call or daily emails. I can't always call or write because of little things like work - much the same as I am sure your boyfriend is going through right now.

And speaking from experience with one of those hand wringers: it only stresses me out more when my partner can't handle the seperation. Please about that.

He'll call or write when he can, worrying about when, if and how will only turn you into one of "those" spouses. We all know someone who has had their spouse call the duty shack because Bloggins hasn't phoned home in 2.873 hours and Spouse is convinced the big bad army killed him or that he's screwing everything in a skirt.

relax, he's got a long time to go and he will appreciate the support.


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## dogger1936 (26 Sep 2011)

I wasnt allowed a cell phone!! .....Then again....it woulda been manpack sized at the time I'm sure!


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## chase429 (26 Sep 2011)

Cellphone use, and other electronic devices can be used but it depends on the instructor. I have had instructors who had a no cell phone policy unless you where on leave and than you could take it from civie lockup. That being said The first 4 weeks are the most intense, this is when phone calls will be not as frequent after that depending on your instructor you should have plenty of time to make a quick phone call and if he is in the mega which i assume is the case since its St.Jean finding a free pay phone is sometimes hard to do.


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## aesop081 (27 Sep 2011)

Mandy55 said:
			
		

> since cell phones are allowed,



Maybe, maybe not. As mentioned, this will be up to the course staff that he gets. He's not gone to some civilian education facility with a dorm room where he does whatever he wants. All 24 hours of his day are controlled by someone else.




> Do you think he would at least be able to keep his iPod, so he can have a little break from the course to listen to music?



He will have plenty to do. Again, he is not attending some university. He likely will have time for that but you can expect him to go from work, directly to sleep more than willingly, at least for a while.


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## liams mom (27 Sep 2011)

To add to what Scott said:

My DH and I have 20 years of military family life behind us. Don't waste your time trying to find out answers to the when and how questions. Useless to do so. My DH always calls when he can and always let's me know whats going on as soon as he knows for sure. Sometimes that means he calls me from his car to say "hey babe , guess what? I am coming home right now." Even his afghan deployment was like that. We have learned not to second guess or try to figure stuff out. It wastes energy and you always end up surprised anyways! Good luck to you and your sweetheart. Breathe!


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## Mandy55 (27 Sep 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Maybe, maybe not. As mentioned, this will be up to the course staff that he gets. He's not gone to some civilian education facility with a dorm room where he does whatever he wants. All 24 hours of his day are controlled by someone else.
> 
> 
> He will have plenty to do. Again, he is not attending some university. He likely will have time for that but you can expect him to go from work, directly to sleep more than willingly, at least for a while.



When I said "cell phones are allowed", I was referring to the poster above who said they are in St Jean with him right now and cell phones are allowed. And the "break" I was referring to is after supper, before he goes to bed. I know his schedule is busy; I know he can't call me in the middle of the day.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I want to make clear that I'm not freaking out and it's not that I'm "unable to handle the separation". He got his offer very last minute (only a week before his flight to Montreal) so we didn't have time to figure out these little questions. I apologize if this isn't the place to ask questions about this kind of stuff.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 Sep 2011)

Its the perfect place, one thing you might have to get used to is most military people don't sugar coat things to placate you.....it's blunt and 'right there'.

Good luck.


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## Scott (27 Sep 2011)

To expand on what Bruce said, and perhaps make myself a little more clear...

Many of us have seen all manner of things among troops while training. I have no clue what your relationship is like so I can only be presumptuous. It's not a slag against you or trying to cast doubt - just me covering all bases.

Just be patient and spend whatever time you do get to write/speak with him to talk about things that matter - not talking about when he is going to call/write next or why he hasn't called/written in _X_ days/weeks/hours/seconds. Nothing used to piss me off more than working my tail off and finding a nastygram about how I was an asshole for not calling when she thought I should call. 

I have a superstar in my wife. She never complains so long as she knows I am safe. She handles the day to day and month to month business items and she has also handled some biggies like the purchase of our house - she has POA for me and had to sign the contract because a competing offer came in...all while I was in a Scottish hospital having kidney stones taken care of. And that's just one example.

So it's not just some emails and telephone calls that make me feel good while away, it's how she goes about her daily life and how she has her own things to keep busy and pass the time. Yes, it sucks big bags of dinks that I have to go away, but the time passes much more quickly when you're happy. Miss him all you want, but don't be miserable.


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## ballz (27 Sep 2011)

Mandy55 said:
			
		

> And the "break" I was referring to is after supper, before he goes to bed. I know his schedule is busy; I know he can't call me in the middle of the day.



There often isn't a "break" before bed, especially in the first few weeks.... Sometimes classes go until 7:30 or 8:00PM, and there is usually an inspection every morning for the first few weeks, so as a platoon they've got to clean all the quarters plus get their own stuff cleaned and folded and ironed and sorted out, all before 11:00PM (cause that's lights out). Then they're up at 5:00AM again for PT and a brand new day of awesomeness.

And it's very frowned upon by your peers to be in the hallway on the phone while the rest of your platoon is slaving away at this kind of stuff...


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## megany (28 Sep 2011)

There are two payphones in each elevator bay of the Blue Sector - depending on where his platoon is, and how they are spread out, there could only be two phones for about 45-60 candidates.  If he's lucky they may have access to four phones (if they are spread out into two elevator bays/staircases)... so there's not a lot of access.
Also, cell phone access depends on the platoon.  This summer, my platoon barely had access to their cell phones until week 8 while the other platoons got to keep them from the get-go.  It depends on the staff, on the Warrants, on the Platoon Commander.   There was even a platoon that wasn't allowed to use the pay phones on their floor except on weekends...


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## Mandy55 (28 Sep 2011)

megsy said:
			
		

> There are two payphones in each elevator bay of the Blue Sector - depending on where his platoon is, and how they are spread out, there could only be two phones for about 45-60 candidates.  If he's lucky they may have access to four phones (if they are spread out into two elevator bays/staircases)... so there's not a lot of access.
> Also, cell phone access depends on the platoon.  This summer, my platoon barely had access to their cell phones until week 8 while the other platoons got to keep them from the get-go.  It depends on the staff, on the Warrants, on the Platoon Commander.   There was even a platoon that wasn't allowed to use the pay phones on their floor except on weekends...



Thanks! That was very specific and helpful! I appreciate you telling me all this.


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## SentryMAn (28 Nov 2011)

Hi Mandy;

I had a very difficult Staff on my basic.  We had a Warrant that had just received a Cellular phone 2 months prior to our BMOQ so Cellular/computer use was off limits(even in the Approved sectors) during the weeks we were there.

We were allowed access Friday 5pm - Sunday 6pm. 

Now as for calling we were a platoon of 60 candidates with 4 pay phones to use.  I was able to call my wife almost every night I was in Garrison, and only periodically while in the field.

It was extremely nice to talk to my wife while I was there but I will warn you now that you may not like what you hear from your spouse the first 5 weeks as they will stress out the candidates to attempt to break the ones who are not there for the right reasons.  Try and I say this as I don't know your situation, try no stay positive when they call you, try to not impose your feelings of wanting them home with you and not there doing what they want to do.  I hope that makes sense.

When it came to visits, we rented a hotel in Montreal downtown and had one of the most memorable weekends we've had together, it was simply amazing seeing her after being apart.  The worst part is she drove 9 hours to see me and was waiting outside to pick me up before I even knew if I was going to be leaving the Barracks for the week end.

Life post BMOQ is nothing like Saint Jean.


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## PMedMoe (28 Nov 2011)

SentryMAn said:
			
		

> We had a Warrant that had just received a Cellular phone 2 months prior to our BMOQ





			
				SentryMAn said:
			
		

> so Cellular/computer use was off limits(even in the Approved sectors) during the weeks we were there.



Color me stupid, but I don't see what one has to do with the other.   ???


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## ballz (28 Nov 2011)

SentryMAn said:
			
		

> I was able to call my wife almost every night I was in Garrison, and only periodically while in the field.



You were able to call home from the field?!  How??


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## SentryMAn (29 Nov 2011)

Field as in While in the hard shacks adjacent the Showers and Mess in Farnham.

I was not able to call home during Pre-vimy and Vimy Field EX.  

Cell phones and computer use were counseling items if we were caught using them during Monday-Friday the first 5 weeks, even using the Computer stations in the common sectors.  After the first 5 weeks we were limited to using Cellular phones to the week ends and they were locked up Monday-Friday with our Civilian attire.  Some platoons were allowed their phones/computers after working hours during the week we were not.

I look back on Basic and think it was a wonderful experience, you quickly make friends and find out those you can trust in the first few weeks.  We had a great section that worked extremely well together.  One of our Section is currently serving a tour in Afghanistan fresh off his phase training.

Best of luck.
Please let me know if you have any other specific questions. 

One last thing too, Send candy/chocolate bars to him.  Make sure there is enough for the platoon and staff.  It will get him some really good brownie points with everyone, lol


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## Frehas (7 Jun 2012)

I am going on a weekend 'holiday' or what have you inside of Canada. There will be a fancy night on the town (fine dining, casino night sort of thing) and someone asked me if I could wear my Navy whites for the evening. 

I scoured the QR&Os (http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-01/chapter-chapitre-017-eng.asp) and CF dress instructions (http://cs.uwindsor.ca/~fitzpatr/A-DH-265-000.pdf) for some answers but nothing referenced wearing uniform inside of Canada.

I could ask my CO for permission but the event is this weekend and I doubt I will get a response by then (I'm attached to a large armory while attending civilian college)

I'm an Ordinary Seaman if that has any effect on the matter.


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## m2austin (7 Jun 2012)

> QR&O 17.06 - WEARING OF UNIFORM - RESTRICTION
> (1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a fancy dress ball.



This may not be with the times (I've never attended a ball), but it's interpretation may be applicable to evening public gatherings for entertainment.

My advice is that you've gotten to the point where you need to ask and in the future, it's far easier to simply say "no" or at the least ask permission from the chain.

Since you're running out of time - I would tell myself "no" unless someone here convinces you otherwise.

If you're a reservist - the answer is pretty clear under QR&O 17.06 (2) - No.

[EDIT to add reservist info]


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## Blackadder1916 (7 Jun 2012)

M2A said:
			
		

> > QR&O 17.06 - WEARING OF UNIFORM - RESTRICTION
> > (1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a *fancy dress ball*.
> 
> 
> ...



So, you've never dressed up for a Halloween party.

The common use and understanding of the term "fancy dress ball (or party)" has declined here in Canada but it does not mean formal dress.  In matters of definition, I (like the military during my service) always go to the Concise Oxford Dictionary - ". . . *fancy dress*   fanciful costume, esp. for masquerading as a different person or as an animal etc. at a party . . .".  In other words it means a costume party and thus a member cannot wear any part of current uniform as part of a costume.

To the OP.

There are probably no regulations (unless you are a reservist) that would absolutely preclude you from wearing your uniform while off duty.  You should deservedly be proud of serving and should not feel uncomfortable with being identified as such in public, but (as someone who lost that brief urge to dress up decades ago) why would you want to?


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## Pat in Halifax (7 Jun 2012)

It is all about perception and this may not necessarily be specifically addressed in a reg. Consider, however, how people unfamiliar with the military may view this: A CF member in uniform at a casino. I too have worn my uniform in public to many locales but I generally steer clear of the bar/casino/fancy restaurant scene as the perception is generally, if you are in uniform, you are on duty and why are you on duty in a casino (or a bar...)? I applaud your desire to 'show off' your uniform and admire your apparent pride in what you do, but think about this carefully even if you do get the nod to go ahead on this.
This is nothing more than my take on 'ethics' in the CF and admittedly may not be shared by others.
As for specific 'Reserve' rules, I am not familiar so will not say anything on that.

For those who have been around for a while, the old 'Rigger Runs' of the past are frowned upon.


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## Stoker (7 Jun 2012)

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> It is all about perception and this may not necessarily be specifically addressed in a reg. Consider, however, how people unfamiliar with the military may view this: A CF member in uniform at a casino. I too have worn my uniform in public to many locales but I generally steer clear of the bar/casino/fancy restaurant scene as the perception is generally, if you are in uniform, you are on duty and why are you on duty in a casino (or a bar...)? I applaud your desire to 'show off' your uniform and admire your apparent pride in what you do, but think about this carefully even if you do get the nod to go ahead on this.
> This is nothing more than my take on 'ethics' in the CF and admittedly may not be shared by others.
> As for specific 'Reserve' rules, I am not familiar so will not say anything on that.
> 
> For those who have been around for a while, the old 'Rigger Runs' of the past are frowned upon.



I have to agree with Pat about wearing your uniform at a Casino or at a bar without being authorized.  As for a rigger run, even though they are frowned upon they certainly do still go on and authorized by the COC in certain ports. This summer with the war of 1812 celebrations, in certain ports pers will ONLY be allowed ashore in whites and i'm sure there will be plenty of bars and other seedy locations sailors enjoy patronizing. As long as they don't disgrace the uniform of course and act as they should.


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## Dkeh (7 Jun 2012)

My personal experiance on the matter:

I am in a reserve regiment, in Southern Ontario. I have a little cousin in the cadets, who asked me to wear my uniform to his annual. I asked permission through my CoC, and was approved over the phone (I called the BOR asking for regulations, and instead was put on hold while they asked). I was basically told the following: as long as it is tasteful, you are not mis-representing the Army (Navy in your case), and you *have permission* it is acceptable. Now, this may be just my regiment, but from the sounds of it, as a reservist, you need permission from "higher". I don't know what qualifies as higher- whether the buck stops at your section commander, platoon officer, or CO (sub in Navy equivalents where required )


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## PMedMoe (7 Jun 2012)

I'm not sure what the regulations are, however, I would consider wearing either DEU (or Mess Kit) for a wedding reception or a ball (not a masquerade.....) but not for a night out on the town (supper and casino) no matter how "fancy" it might be.

Just my  :2c:


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## agc (7 Jun 2012)

> 15. Only service dress is designed for unrestricted wear on all occasions. With jacket and tie (No. 3 duty order), it equates to a civilian business suit. With medals and accoutrements (Nos. 1 and 1A orders), it is formal attire suitable for all ceremonial occasions.



From Ch 2 of the Dress Instructions.


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## Frehas (7 Jun 2012)

I am reg force

I am just looking for a reason to wear my whites for the first time 


I did some more digging, Whites are service dress No. 3B (salt and peppers are too but full whites may be worn in summer months)
So with the above quote I am guessing technically I can wear whites wherever however I still have to maintain a high level of appearance and mannerisms while doing so.

Still on the fence about this but now that I know its ok, I may go for it.


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## Snakedoc (7 Jun 2012)

As a mbr of the reg force, there are no regulations precluding you from wearing your service dress (No.3) uniform at anytime and No.1's for appropriate ceremonial occasions (all within Canada).  In fact, in many cases as mentioned above, mbrs are not even allowed ashore unless they are in uniform such as in a foreign port visit or even for RMC cadets when first starting out.  Op Connection is another example of the CF's endorsement of mbr's wearing their uniform in public (particularly when going to and from work).

However, being in uniform is a highly visible indicator of you being in the CF and as such, you are required to act accordingly and not bring a negative image to the CF.  In the public's eyes, you are held to a higher standard.  Regardless of whether you are in uniform or not, you are bound by the Code of Service Discipline (CSD) and CF regulations... but this is even more readily apparent when you are in uniform.  I think it is great when I see CF mbrs wearing their uniform in public.  People shouldn't feel uncomfortable with their image as a CF mbr and shouldn't feel a need to 'hide' themselves when in public.  

It's actually quite common, particularly in the US, for military mbrs to go to dinner in uniform and I've even seen US Marines walking around casinos in their dress uniforms (I'd probably avoid the casinos personally).  As long as you arn't doing anything illegal and act to the standard expected of a military mbr, then you are fine.  Know the regulations and in particular the dress regulations, act accordingly as a CF mbr, and you won't have any problems.  It's also a great opportunity to answer questions from civilians regarding the CF and your role in the community.

When it comes to reservists, permission from the CoC is not required when attending a military event etc.  So for example, if you were attending a military wedding, remembrance day ceremony in a different city (within Canada), military fundraiser, OR Canadian Cadet Organization annual review (cadets is sponsored and administered by the CF with support from civilian organizations).  Unlike the reg force, permission IS required from the CoC if you are going to wear your uniform at a purely civilian function such as a civilian wedding or just for dinner when you are not in the process of going to and from work.  Again, discretion is usually used and as long as you act accordingly, there should be no problems.  The CSD should also be mentioned as reservists are not always governed by the CSD but if you are a Class A reservist and on a military establishment OR in uniform (whether on military property or not), you are subject to the CSD and the obligations that come with that.  Class B and C reservists are essentially treated as reg force members and subject to the CSD at all times while on Class B/C.

Hope that helps and yes, I think you should go to the wedding in uniform


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## Dkeh (7 Jun 2012)

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> ...just for dinner when you are not in the process of going to and from work...



Does this mean I can safely stop and grab a quick meal after weekly training without changing beforehand? To me, this falls under traveling home from training.

Thanks!


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## George Wallace (7 Jun 2012)

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> When it comes to reservists, permission from the CoC is not required when attending a military event etc.  So for example, if you were attending a military wedding, remembrance day ceremony in a different city (within Canada), military fundraiser, OR Canadian Cadet Organization annual review (cadets is sponsored and administered by the CF with support from civilian organizations).  Unlike the reg force, permission IS required from the CoC if you are going to wear your uniform at a purely civilian function such as a civilian wedding or just for dinner when you are not in the process of going to and from work.  Again, discretion is usually used and as long as you act accordingly, there should be no problems.  The CSD should also be mentioned as reservists are not always governed by the CSD but if you are a Class A reservist and on a military establishment OR in uniform (whether on military property or not), you are subject to the CSD and the obligations that come with that.  Class B and C reservists are essentially treated as reg force members and subject to the CSD at all times while on Class B/C.



I have no idea where  you came up with this information and how you feel that Reservists are not held to the Code of Service Discipline at any time, under any conditions........I would like to call you on this and state that this above statement by YOU is complete Bull Shyte.


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## dangerboy (7 Jun 2012)

A reserve in uniform is subject to the code of service discipline.  QR&O Vol II, Chapter 102, article 102.1



> The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:
> 
> (a) an officer or non-commissioned member of the regular force;
> 
> ...


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## Snakedoc (7 Jun 2012)

Dkeh said:
			
		

> Does this mean I can safely stop and grab a quick meal after weekly training without changing beforehand? To me, this falls under traveling home from training.
> 
> Thanks!



That is correct!



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> I have no idea where  you came up with this information and how you feel that Reservists are not held to the Code of Service Discipline at any time, under any conditions........I would like to call you on this and state that this above statement by YOU is complete Bull Shyte.



Thanks dangerboy, you beat me to the reference wrt QR&O Vol II, Chapter 102, article 102.1

In addition, the JAG office provides some clarification in the following link:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/publications/defence-defense/csdme-cdmmoi-eng.asp

"When am I subject to the CSD?

If you are a member of the Regular Force you are always subject to the CSD, both inside and outside Canada. If you are a member of the Reserve Force, you are subject to the CSD:

-while undergoing drill or training (whether you are in uniform or not)
-whenever you are in uniform
-while on any military duty
-24 hours a day, 7 days a week during any period of full time service (Class "B" or "C" service)
-whenever you are present on defence property
-whenever you are in a vehicle, ship or aircraft of the CF"


Cheers!


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## bcbarman (7 Jun 2012)

One other point to add, a "Fancy Dress Ball" is a British way of saying costume party.  Since most of the QR&O's were borrowed from the Brits back in the day, and then grew to the truly Canadian document we have today, its likely that the language has not changed.

A translation from legaleses: you may not wear your current uniform to a costume party. Old greens are acceptable.


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Jun 2012)

:facepalm:  I just knew this was going to happen.  :facepalm:


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## CombatDoc (7 Jun 2012)

Unless you're planning on singing "You've lost that lovin' feeling" to a female aerospace engineer while dressed in your whites, my recommendation is that you don't wear them to your social function.  Wear nice civilian clothes instead.


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## Pusser (8 Jun 2012)

From an etiquette perspective (regulations notwithstanding), if there is no military connection, one should not be randomly wearing a uniform.  It's all about dressing for the occasion.  Although Number 3s are the military equivalent of a business suit, that doesn't mean that a business suit and your uniform are interchangeable.  
If you're attending a civilian event as a representative of the CF (e.g. CF Appreciation nights) then a uniform is appropriate, but if you are attending as just another attendee, then wearing a uniform may not be appropriate.


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## Disenchantedsailor (8 Jun 2012)

Pusser said:
			
		

> From an etiquette perspective (regulations notwithstanding), if there is no military connection, one should not be randomly wearing a uniform.  It's all about dressing for the occasion.  Although Number 3s are the military equivalent of a business suit, that doesn't mean that a business suit and your uniform are interchangeable.
> If you're attending a civilian event as a representative of the CF (e.g. CF Appreciation nights) then a uniform is appropriate, but if you are attending as just another attendee, then wearing a uniform may not be appropriate.


How does this fit with the CDS CANFORGEN where Gen Hillier encouraged CF Mbrs to wear No 3 order of dress at any occasion where a business suit would be appropriate ?


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## Furniture (8 Jun 2012)

I've noticed a tendency among those who have been in since the 90s-early 2000s to avoid wearing the uniform unless specifically required to do so. I personally see no issue with the wearing of DEUs when the occasion calls for formal wear and you aren't doing anything inappropriate, in reality the regulations don't either as already posted above. 

Wearing a uniform and being seen as a respectable member of the CF only further enhances our public image and helps people feel a connection with their military.


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## Halifax Tar (8 Jun 2012)

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> For those who have been around for a while, the old 'Rigger Runs' of the past are frowned upon.



I just left the Navy in Aug last year and we still looked for any reason we could to have rigger runs, in foreign ports mind you...  In fact during fleet week in NYC we were only allowed off the ship in our whites.  Some didnt always return properly turned out but we certainly did leave that way.  :facepalm:


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## Snakedoc (8 Jun 2012)

I do notice that general trend as well WeatherdoG, not sure if it's completely accurate however.  Perhaps it's just a general uneasiness with being in uniform in public among CF mbrs and a constant fear of someone screwing up.  Like you said, as long as you act appropriately, it shouldn't be a problem.  The regs are the regs and then there's common practice that may differ by command/organization/generation/culture.

Rig runs are still quite common after mess dinners!  For the Wardroom at least...though I have seen other messes go out for their own too in the past.  In terms of it being frowned upon...possibly but unofficially? Though I've seen CO's and XO's partake before as well...not doing anything stupid but just supporting a local civilian establishment after a mess dinner  ;D

You can't take ALL the fun out of the navy!


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## Pusser (8 Jun 2012)

Not_So_Arty_Newbie said:
			
		

> How does this fit with the CDS CANFORGEN where Gen Hillier encouraged CF Mbrs to wear No 3 order of dress at any occasion where a business suit would be appropriate ?



I suppose it's part of my background in the Wardroom, where we were always taught (and expected) to keep a decent civilian wardrobe - the idea being that as officers, we were expected to be presentable in civilian clothing as we were not supposed to wear a uniform all the time.  This is still the norm with the Brits:  in Canada, a formal mess function means everybody wears mess kit, regardless of who's coming.  In the UK, you only wear mess kit when it's a members only event (e.g. mess dinner).  With any other formal event (e.g. dine the spouses), a dinner jacket (i.e. tuxedo) is expected and one would look (and be considered) a right fool for wearing your mess kit.

More to the point of this question, I think it's largely a matter of what you're comfortable with.  It really does depend on the occasion.  I suggest looking at it this way:  Is wearing your uniform to take your date out to dinner not the same as Sidney Crosby wearing his Penguins jersey to take out his date?  Is there anything wrong with this?  Probably not, but is it appropriate?  Would you be comfortable and/or concerned about what others are thinking?


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## George Wallace (9 Jun 2012)

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> When it comes to reservists, permission from the CoC is not required when attending a military event etc.  So for example, if you were attending a military wedding, remembrance day ceremony in a different city (within Canada), military fundraiser, OR Canadian Cadet Organization annual review (cadets is sponsored and administered by the CF with support from civilian organizations).





You can not have it both ways......In your example, the if the Reserve member is wearing a uniform, or representing the CF in any way, even out of uniform, ( This is the way I interpreted your statement.) they do fall under the CSD.  If they are participating in any function as a "civilian", and showing/indicating no affiliation to the CF, then I agree with you.



[Edit to add]  Perhaps you remember a few years back the Reservist in BC who was writting letters to the Editor, along with his Mom, protesting the Afghan mission, and signing his name with his rank.  Here is a case of someone, a Reservist, reprsenting himself as a member of the CF.  That would, in my eyes, fall under the CSD.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Jun 2012)

QR & O, Vol 2, Ch 102, Sect 1, Art 102.01 (1)(c)

102.01 – PERSONS SUBJECT TO THE CODE OF SERVICE DISCIPLINE

Section 60 of the National Defence Act provides:

“60. (1) The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:

(c) an officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force when the officer or non-commissioned member is

(i) undergoing drill or training, whether in uniform or not,

(ii) in uniform,

(iii) on duty,

(iv) [Repealed, S.C. 1998, c. 35, s. 19],

(v) called out under Part VI in aid of the civil power,

(vi) called out on service,

(vii) placed on active service,

(viii) in or on any vessel, vehicle or aircraft of the Canadian Forces or in or on any defence establishment or work for defence,

(ix) serving with any unit or other element of the regular force or the special force, or

(x) present, whether in uniform or not, at any drill or training of a unit or other element of the Canadian Forces;


Unfortunately the guy making comments in the media and signing his name/rank doesn't appear to be subject to the CSD.  _But_ there could be something else somewhere about 'comms with the media' that might add to this one QR & O ref.

*just noticed the QR & O already is posted.   :facepalm:


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## George Wallace (9 Jun 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> QR & O, Vol 2, Ch 102, Sect 1, Art 102.01 (1)(c)
> 
> 102.01 – PERSONS SUBJECT TO THE CODE OF SERVICE DISCIPLINE
> 
> ...





You are all quoting the same fragment of the CSD.   Read and interpret some of the fol:



> (2) Every person subject to the Code of Service Discipline under subsection (1) at the time of the alleged commission by the person of a service offence continues to be liable to be charged, dealt with and tried in respect of that offence under the Code of Service Discipline notwithstanding that the person may have, since the commission of that offence, ceased to be a person described in subsection (1).





> (3) Every person who, since allegedly committing a service offence, has ceased to be a person described in subsection (1), shall for the purposes of the Code of Service Discipline be deemed, for the period during which under that Code he is liable to be charged, dealt with and tried, to have the same status and rank that he held immediately before so ceasing to be a person described in subsection (1).”





For our Reservist representing himself as a member of the CF in his letters to the Editor:




> 19.36 – DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION OR OPINION
> 
> (1) For the purposes of this article, the adjective “military” shall be construed as relating not only to the Canadian Forces but also to the armed forces of any country.
> 
> ...


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## OldSolduer (9 Jun 2012)

After a unit function a few years back, some of our troops went downtown, where they misbehaved. 

The reaction to the reports were almost nuclear and a very knee jerk response ensued: a soldier was required permission from the CoC to wear his DEUs anywhere other than military functions, and not allowed to wear them down town after functions at all.

The miscreants were never held accountable - the whole unit was punished instead.

That is about to change.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Jun 2012)

George,

I see what you're saying BUT the QR & O are clear on when a Reservist is subject to the CSD.  If they aren't subjec to the CSD everthing else is moot.


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Jun 2012)

;D


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## George Wallace (9 Jun 2012)

There are also other 'Regulations, Rules, Orders and Instructions' that members of the CF are responsible to follow, other than just the CSD, no matter what element of the CF they may belong to.   The CSD draws on and defines parts of the National Defence Act, Security of Information Act, the National Defence Security Instruction, etc.  This means that yes, you may not fall under the "CSD", but you are still held accountable to other responsibilities under other Acts, Legislation, Regulations, etc.  The Official Secrets Act would still be binding whether you were a member of the CF, in any capacity, or not.  Could that mean that you may or could be Charged under the CSD?  Perhaps; if you were not under the Civil authorities.  

A real eye opener, recently being presented to all members of the CF and DND; Regular, Reserve, Civilian, etc. is the description of Controlled Items.  (A sidetrack introducing a whole new Topic which will have many "Collectors" becoming 'criminals'.)


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Jun 2012)

To the OP,

Just wear the uniform, don't do anything to bring discredit on the CF.

Let the legal beagles and barrack room lawyers worry themselves into a tizzy over this.

You just go have a good time with your family and \ or friends.


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## Snakedoc (9 Jun 2012)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You can not have it both ways......In your example, the if the Reserve member is wearing a uniform, or representing the CF in any way, even out of uniform, ( This is the way I interpreted your statement.) they do fall under the CSD.  If they are participating in any function as a "civilian", and showing/indicating no affiliation to the CF, then I agree with you.



I'm a bit confused by what you're trying to say, what do you mean by have it both ways?  All I was saying is that as a *reservist*, permission is not required to wear your uniform to a military event.  Permission IS required if you'd like to wear your uniform to a civilian event.  Regardless of whether the event is military or civilian, you are subject to the CSD as a reservist when *IN* uniform.

Well said recceguy...


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## Jarnhamar (9 Jun 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> ;D



awesome


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## Rick Goebel (9 Jun 2012)

Pusser said "In the UK, you only wear mess kit when it's a members only event (e.g. mess dinner).  With any other formal event (e.g. dine the spouses), a dinner jacket (i.e. tuxedo) is expected and one would look (and be considered) a right fool for wearing your mess kit."

Not at the Royal Caledonian Ball (http://www.royalcaledonianball.com/) or the Stirling Ball.

Rick Goebel


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## BDTyre (9 Jun 2012)

I've worn my DEUs (white belt, spats and hair sporran) to an annual local police pipe band Burns Dinner consistently since '08 (spare for the one that occurred during my tour). Several former and serving CF members attend this event and not once have I been told I shouldn't be wearing it. Last year I had my picture taken, published in our local news and put up in the armoury...and no one said anything. This year, I ran into my former CO (who now works at 39CBG) and we had a great chat. He was in mess dress, and his only words to me were that if I ever find myself in possession of mess dress, things like Burns dinners are perfect excuses to wear it.


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