# Don Cherry to receive honorary doctorate from RMC



## bossi (2 Nov 2011)

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/335061/un-doctorat-honorifique-pour-don-cherry

The article refers to RMC as being merely an "Ontario" establishment, as opposed to a national/Canadian institution ...
(personally, I'll be interested to see if the RMC professors who object to Don Cherry's honorary doctorate will resign from RMC ...)


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## dapaterson (2 Nov 2011)

Legally speaking, RMC issues Ontario degrees; hence it is an Ontario university.


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## Wookilar (2 Nov 2011)

Mr Cherry has long been a booster for RMC (as well as the rest of the CF of course) and has some family ties to the institution. No matter what your opinion of his "performances" (newsflash, that's what they are, he plays a character on a tv show) on Coach's Corner are, it's hard to argue with the man's lengthy philanthropic efforts and his support of us as a whole.

Also a very nice, well spoken individual. Great idea in my opinion.

Wook


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## Scott (2 Nov 2011)

I can hear Bruce Dowbiggin choking on righteous indignation from here.

And I don't mind that one bit.

Other than that I have no dog in the fight but I am sure eyebrows would be raised if he was given a doctorate from the High Prairie Institute of Welding and Animal Husbandry.


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## dapaterson (2 Nov 2011)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> Mr Cherry has long been a booster for RMC (as well as the rest of the CF of course) and has some family ties to the institution. No matter what your opinion of his "performances" (newsflash, that's what they are, he plays a character on a tv show) on Coach's Corner are, it's hard to argue with the man's lengthy philanthropic efforts and his support of us as a whole.
> 
> Also a very nice, well spoken individual. Great idea in my opinion.
> 
> Wook



I suspect individuals with a first official langauge other than English may differ in their opinion of Mr Cherry's "support".

As well, the CF has already honored Mr Cherry for his support, presenting him with a CF Medallion of Service in 2008.


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## dapaterson (2 Nov 2011)

Scott said:
			
		

> Other than that I have no dog in the fight but I am sure eyebrows would be raised if he was given a doctorate from the High Prairie Institute of Welding and Animal Husbandry.



Yes, but difference is that the High Prairie Institute of Welding and Animal Husbandry is a school that provides valuable, real-world skills.


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## The Bread Guy (2 Nov 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I suspect individuals with a first official langauge other than English may differ in their opinion of Mr Cherry's "support".


I agree, which might explain why he's not getting an honourary degree here?


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## Scott (2 Nov 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Yes, but difference is that the High Prairie Institute of Welding and Animal Husbandry is a school that provides valuable, real-world skills.



 :bowdown:


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## dapaterson (2 Nov 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I agree, which might explain why he's not getting an honourary degree here?



College Militaire Royale St Jean is not currently an accredited, degree-granting university; to my knowledge, at this time the are only able to grant a "Diplome des etudes collegiales".


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## ballz (2 Nov 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Yes, but difference is that the High Prairie Institute of Welding and Animal Husbandry is a school that provides valuable, real-world skills.



 :rofl:

*slowly clapping*


Wasn't Cherry also made an honorary Patricia?

I agree that Cherry is a huge supporter, but I'm not a fan of "honorary doctorates" at the best of times. What the hell is he supposed to be a doctorate of anyway? It's one thing to give someone who was amazing at something and has a ton of experience a doctorate in that field, but what "field" is that for Cherry?


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## dapaterson (2 Nov 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> It's one thing to give someone who was amazing at something and has a ton of experience a doctorate in that field, but what "field" is that for Cherry?



Not being able to count to five (says the Habs fan).


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## yoman (2 Nov 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> College Militaire Royale St Jean is not currently an accredited, degree-granting university; to my knowledge, at this time the are only able to grant a "Diplome des etudes collegiales".



Yep. They are affiliated to St-Jean sur Richlieu' CEGEP.


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## The Bread Guy (2 Nov 2011)

yoman said:
			
		

> dapaterson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the new info - then it'll be no honourary diploma in the near future for Grapes from here, then.


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## FlyingDutchman (2 Nov 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> It's one thing to give someone who was amazing at something and has a ton of experience a doctorate in that field, but what "field" is that for Cherry?


Sewing?


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## yoman (2 Nov 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> Sewing?



Hockey? Suit design? Professional ranting?  

Either way it's a nice gesture on the part of RMC for recognizing somebody who has been extremely supportive of the men and women of our Armed Forces.


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## Journeyman (2 Nov 2011)

There's a growing tradition of people, whose career is made playing a buffoon in the media, receiving Honourary Doctorates......Stephen Colbert, Hunter S Thompson....Billy Graham....


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## dapaterson (3 Nov 2011)

Follow-up story in Le Devoir today - apparently 80% of RMC professors supported a motion to denounce the decision.

Original article at:  http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/335134/en-bref-les-profs-de-kingston-rejettent-cherry

Google Translation:



> If it were up to professors at Royal Military College of Canada (RMC), Don Cherry would not receive honorary doctorate from the institution on November 17, as Le Devoir reported yesterday. General meeting, the teachers adopted by a majority estimated at 80% a motion denouncing the decision of the RMC Senate to grant Mr. Cherry the degree of doctor honoris causa. This motion, however, is symbolic and will not change the decision of the Senate, said the leadership in the late afternoon.
> 
> Teachers, however, forwarded their complaints to the Minister of National Defence Peter MacKay. Five years ago, the Conservative government had blocked the granting of an honorary doctorate by the CMRC U.S. General Anthony Zinni: he blamed a position too critical of the actions of the former U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. Yesterday, Mr. MacKay's office said the decision to honor Mr. Cherry is the sole responsibility of the CMRC.


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## PMedMoe (4 Nov 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I suspect individuals with a first official langauge other than English may differ in their opinion of Mr Cherry's "support".



Professor questions honorary degree for Don Cherry

Don Cherry, a huge advocate of our men and women in the military, has been selected to receive an honorary doctorate from Royal Military College — but not everyone is happy about it. 

The college's senate approved awarding the controversial hockey commentator with the honour at a recent closed-door meeting. 

But now at least one member of the faculty is protesting the decision publicly. 

French professor Catherine Lord criticized the college's decision to honour Cherry in a letter sent to local media. 

“On many occasions he publicly expressed his contempt for many groups of the Canadian population, notably for the French-speaking Canadians, for the (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered) community and for the immigrants,” Lord wrote. 

“RMC is increasingly representative of the diverse society in which we live. RMC is a strong and unifying place.”  
  
Lord questioned what kind of message granting the honorary doctorate would send to the rest of the country. 

“What message will RMC send, in celebrating Don Cherry, to the students coming from these groups? And what will the Canadian people remember from RMC, as a serious and prestigious institution?” 

More at link


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## ballz (4 Nov 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> “On many occasions he publicly expressed his contempt for many groups of the Canadian population, notably for the French-speaking Canadians, for the (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered) community and for the immigrants,” Lord wrote.



Well, as much as I think it's a questionable decision, those reasons are just ludicrous. He has never expressed "contempt" for any of those groups.

Here he is in 1992 meeting a homosexual on a talk show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dujtJfhclUs and the last thing I would say is he is showing "contempt."


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## Gunner98 (4 Nov 2011)

There is quite a variety backgrounds among the previous recipients:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Royal_Military_College_of_Canada_people#Notable_honorary_degree_recipients


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Nov 2011)

A classy move..........................and a nice shot. :nod:


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/11/04/18927271.html

Cherry passes on honorary degree from RMC 

By Joe Warmington, Toronto Sun 


Concerned controversy may take away from “a special day,” Don Cherry has declined an honorary degree from the Royal Military College. 
“I can’t accept the degree and I won’t attend the convocation,” Cherry said in an interview Friday about the Nov. 17 ceremony in Kingston. “I am sad because I was really looking forward to spending time with the 800 cadets.” 

Perhaps instead they can line up to get their picture taken with French Professor Catherine Lord. 
It is because of her bizarre and vitriolic complaints that the legendary hockey coach and commentator wont be there.  

“On many occasions he publicly expressed his contempt for many groups of the Canadian population, notably for the French-speaking Canadians, for the (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered) community and for the immigrants,” Lord wrote in an open letter. “What message will RMC send, in celebrating Don Cherry, to the students coming from these groups? And what will the Canadian people remember from RMC, as a serious and prestigious institution?” 
The message would be: “Thanks, Don, for all you have done.”  
  
So much for all of those Canadian soldiers who have died in battle to assure free speech, I guess. 
It’s also unfair because Cherry’s never had any serious issues with French-Canadians, other than those who want to separate from Canada. 

To add insult to a vicious attack, the RMC faculty board passed a resolution of “dissatisfaction” about the 77-year-old receiving the degree — never once mentioning Cherry’s continuous and unabashed war time support for the troops. 
The institution meanwhile stands behind its decision to grant him the degree. 

“For more than two decades Don Cherry has been a stalwart public supporter of the members of the Canadian Forces and their families,” said spokesman Capt. Cynthia Kent. “Through his public appearances, he has continually drawn attention to the work and sacrifices of Canadian Forces members, along with the contributions of military families. In Canada and overseas, he has visited Canadian Forces personnel to boost their morale with both his entertaining personality and his heartfelt appreciation for their sacrifice. RMC’s honorary degree is also to recognize Mr. Cherry’s charitable causes, including organ donor awareness and Rose Cherry’s Home for Kids, which is a paediatric and hospice care facility for children now called the Darling Home for Kids.” 
It’s difficult to find Lord’s resume of contributions to Canada but perhaps embarrassing RMC like this will earn her a Wikipedia mention and pats on the back from Canada’s left. 

Either way it was a low blow aimed at Cherry, who not only is from Kingtson but has a long personal history with the college. His mother worked there, as did his grandfather, Richard Palamountain, who then enlisted with the Canadian Expeditionary Force where he fought and was wounded at Vimy Ridge in 1917. Palamountain returned back to the college as an employee following the war for 17 years until his death. 
If not for a mean-spirited French teacher it would have been a special moment for the great Canadian patriot. 

Cherry also has a long resume of honorary awards from Canada’s miliary and men and women in uniform. 
He received the Canadian Forces Medallion for Distinguished Service, and was made an honorary lifetime member of the Royal Canadian Legion, an honorary member of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery and an honorary membership in the Ontario Association of Police. 
He said he was very proud to be bestowed this latest honorary degree but in light of the letter and public spectacle did not want to distract attention from the two others who were also honoured — the late RMC teacher Brig.-Gen. John (Jack) Cadieux and military veteran Lt.-Col. John Desmond Gibson. 

“I wouldn’t want anything to take that moment away from those families,” Cherry said. “The day should be a positive.” 
As for the classless move coming from inside an institution that should understand Cherry’s importance to the troops, the coach was philosophical. 
“All I know is I went to Afghanistan to spend last Christmas with the Van Doos and they didn’t seem to mind me,” joked Cherry. “They treated me so well and I have to tell you I was sure proud of them.” 

With the help of the legendary Quebec City Royal 22e Régiment he fired an artillery shell on which he wrote “To the Taliban: Bon Chance” to which he later joked to the troops, “I think I spelled it wrong (it should have been ‘bonne’) but they got the idea.” Being with the Van Doos “was by far the greatest thing I have ever done in my life and the greatest thing I will ever do,” he added. 
However he did point one thing missing from the trip: 

“When I was in Afghanistan in all the bases I visited I didn’t see Catherine Lord there anywhere."


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## Infanteer (5 Nov 2011)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> “When I was in Afghanistan in all the bases I visited I didn’t see Catherine Lord there anywhere."



Booyah!


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## MJP (5 Nov 2011)

I guess considering that the RMC faculty list is open source here on the internet, Catherine Lord might be finding herself deluged with emails.  





Edited for horrible spelling error.  Deluged with emails not deluded .  :facepalm:


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## Occam (5 Nov 2011)

I wish the press would stop referring to Catherine Lord as "Professor".  She is a language teacher, period.


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## Infanteer (5 Nov 2011)

Good point.


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## a_majoor (5 Nov 2011)

Don Cherry showed a lot of class, and _he_ is the one who should be deluged with emails of support, congratulations and thanks.

As for whatshername, a resounding silence should be the reward.


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## The Bread Guy (5 Nov 2011)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Don Cherry showed a lot of class, and _he_ is the one who should be deluged with emails of support, congratulations and thanks.


 :goodpost:
Don continues to be the bigger man.


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## FlyingDutchman (5 Nov 2011)

I am very impressed with Don.  I cannot help but wonder how the teacher feels now.


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## Good2Golf (5 Nov 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> I am very impressed with Don.  I cannot help but wonder how the teacher feels now.




Self-important people always feel good about themselves.


    :


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## mariomike (5 Nov 2011)

I remember seeing Don do hospital visits back in the 1990's. He was very friendly.  As far as I know, it was not reported in the media. I think he sincerely enjoyed cheering people up.


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## The Bread Guy (5 Nov 2011)

.... via the CF Info-Machine (scan attached in case link doesn't work):


> The Senate of the Royal Military College of Canada (RMCC) today announced that Mr. Don Cherry, a renowned hockey commentator and strong supporter of Canada's military personnel and families, will not be accepting an Honorary Degree, as planned for the 2011 Fall Convocation.
> 
> “We received with regret, but with complete understanding, Mr. Don Cherry’s personal decision not to participate in the forthcoming Convocation at the Royal Military College of Canada,” said Dr. Joel Sokolsky, Principal of RMCC. “It would have been our honour and privilege for Mr. Cherry to have received an Honorary Degree from the university, in recognition of his outstanding support for our Canadian Forces personnel and for his incredible charitable work.”
> 
> ...


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## Maxadia (5 Nov 2011)

Well, if we're listing one email address, why not both?  

don.cherry@cbc.com

I'll be tossing him off a thank you note today.  Mrs. Lord -well, maybe not quite the same thing.


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## ProudNewfoundlander (5 Nov 2011)

Post Deleted


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## Maxadia (5 Nov 2011)

RDJP said:
			
		

> Well, if we're listing one email address, why not both?
> 
> don.cherry@cbc.com
> 
> I'll be tossing him off a thank you note today.  Mrs. Lord -well, maybe not quite the same thing.



Looks like I have the wrong address for Mr. Cherry, as it was sent back....anyone know the correct one?  Or maybe his mailbox is full, as it just said the message was rejected but the domain?


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## Journeyman (5 Nov 2011)

RDJP said:
			
		

> Or maybe his mailbox is full, as it just said the message was rejected but the domain?


Maybe he has your status set to <ignore> ?


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## FlyingDutchman (5 Nov 2011)

Would that not just send it to his junk folder then?


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## Journeyman (5 Nov 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> Would that not just send it to his junk folder then?


    :   It was a joke. 

I have no reason to believe that Don Cherry even knows RDJP, _let alone_ finds him irritating enough to have him set to <ignore> 


.....as I have for _several_ posters here.


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## wannabe SF member (5 Nov 2011)

Well, as an RMC student, I can guarantee you all that the overall feeling on Campus is that Catherine Lord just spoiled it for everyone. I can see the atmosphere in her classes becoming slightly more frigid now.


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## Strike (5 Nov 2011)

ProudNewfoundlander said:
			
		

> Are any of you b'ys really surprised ? Its a university for christs sake. You would get the same reaction at any post secondary institution in Canada. Some people assume, that "RMC, theyre military right? " prospective cadets are, but most of the faculty are civvies. Just thank god they dont have a traditional student union there, or this would be magnified three fold.



Spoken like someone who has never had any real dealings with the College or its students.   :

Edited to correct a grammar error (thanks JM).


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## FlyingDutchman (5 Nov 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> :   It was a joke.
> 
> I have no reason to believe that Don Cherry even knows RDJP, _let alone_ finds him irritating enough to have him set to <ignore>
> 
> ...


Curse you text based communication that does not have the tones of a human voice! 
I was going to say you could just @ him on twitter, but I'll be damned if I could find an actual twitter account of his and not an imposter.


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## Maxadia (5 Nov 2011)

I thought your post was funny.  ;D


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## The Bread Guy (5 Nov 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> I was going to say you could just @ him on twitter, but I'll be damned if I could find an actual twitter account of his and not an imposter.


This _may_ be the real one ....
http://twitter.com/#!/Real_DonCherry
.... based on the previous statement fracas last month, but since it's not verified, caveat poster.

Another option on the CBC.ca address - try don_cherry@cbc.ca . Many CBC addresses have names divided by underscores, so it *MAY* work.

Finally, _if_ you believe the interwebs, there's a donniegrapes@rogers.ca e-mail address floating out there without verification.

Good luck, folks.


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## GAP (5 Nov 2011)

Don Cherry turns down honorary degree from military college after prof objects
By: The Canadian Press 11/5/2011
Article Link

OTTAWA - Hockey commentator Don Cherry has turned down an honorary degree from the Royal Military College of Canada after at least one faculty member objected.

Cherry's decision was made public by the college on Saturday, less than two weeks before the colourful CBC host was to receive the award.

A spokeswoman for the college said Cherry didn't elaborate on the motive for his refusal, simply citing "personal reasons."

"We are disappointed that he feels he can't attend ... but we also understand his position," the college's principal, Joel Sokolsky, said Saturday.

Recent media reports suggested at least one of the college's professors opposed the school's plan to openly support Cherry.

The professor sent an open letter to a Kingston, Ont., newspaper.

It blasted the former hockey player and coach for his controversial views on French-speaking Canadians, immigrants and the gay community.

The letter said giving Cherry the award sends the wrong message to students.

The letter is "the expression of an opinion," Sokolsky said, adding the school regrets losing a chance to recognize Cherry's outspoken support for Canadian Forces personnel.

"From my standpoint, he was being honoured for his work on behalf of the Forces, his charity work, his standing in promoting athletics in Canada."

Cherry would have received the degree during the college's fall convocation on Nov. 17.
end


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## GnyHwy (5 Nov 2011)

Perhaps there should be some new doctorates.

Free speech, telling it like you see it, morale, team building and general coolness.

If we can get those in there, then Don is gtg.


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## bossi (5 Nov 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> I wish the press would stop referring to Catherine Lord as "Professor".  She is a language teacher, period.



So, in other words, she's nothing but a cunning linguist?
(with a penchant for writing to newspapers?)
STOP THE PRESS!
What are the odds of two people with the last surname working in the same department at RMC?
(i.e. what are the odds of them NOT being related? ... yup - no possible perception of conflict of interest here ... after all, what Language Centre Director would hire a relative ...???)

LCol(Ret'd) JEJ Lord 	Language Center Director 	lord-j@rmc.ca

Mrs. C Lord 	Teacher, Second Language 	Catherine.Lord@rmc.ca

P.S. (BZ to Don Cherry for showing infintely more class than Mrs. C Lord.  I look forward to Mrs Lord's resignation or dismissal, whichever comes first ... the latter being my personal preference ...)


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Nov 2011)

..and he was classy on Coachs Corner tonight about it.


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## bossi (5 Nov 2011)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> ..and he was classy on Coachs Corner tonight about it.



Thanks for reminding me, Bruce - right now I'm "seeing red" ...

I met Don Cherry at Maple Leaf Gardens on the evening when the Leafs paid tribute to the CF after the First Gulf War.  We blustered our way past security into the HNIC studio where Don and Ron McLean were getting ready for that evening's telecast ... and Don's first words when he saw our C7's were "Whoa!  For a minute I was worried it was Harry Sinden!"  Don and Ron were magnificent and magnanious hosts to us, we had a wonderful visit and treasure the photo.

Then, when the CBC National News ran late and the ceremony at Maple Leaf Gardens wasn't broadcast ... Don went over to the players' benches, grabbed some sticks and got them autographed, then brought it around to where the CF members were sitting and presented the sticks to them.  Don thought the troops had been "slighted", and did something about it!

A little while later, I was asked by Public Affairs if I could find a "personality" to be the Honorary Chair of a "Unity Hockey Tournament" - I phoned Don and left a message asking him if he'd be interested - Rose Cherry phoned back almost immediately and said "Yes, of course!"

We all know Don has supported the troops with his heartfelt tributes on HNIC whenever we've lost one of our own overseas ... and some of us are aware of his charity work.

Why, then, did Mrs. Catherine Lord decide her opinion mattered more than the committee who decided to grant Don an honorary doctorate from RMC?

Personally, I feel very strongly that Mrs. C. Lord has acted improperly - she is only a language teacher, and I don't remember seeing her in Afghanistan when Don Cherry was visiting the Van Doos ... and I am unfamiliar with Mrs. D. Lord's televised tributes on national television when we have suffered casualties overseas ...


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## ModlrMike (5 Nov 2011)

So a non-alumnus, non-tenured, non-professor doesn't like it and the Senate caves?


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## Good2Golf (5 Nov 2011)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> So a non-alumnus, non-tenured, non-professor doesn't like it and the Senate caves?



The only link that Catherine Lord has with RMC is that she is the daughter of the Director of the Language Centre that she teaches in. (Ref:)


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## The Bread Guy (5 Nov 2011)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> So a non-alumnus, non-tenured, non-professor doesn't like it and the Senate caves?


It _sounds like_ he declined with thanks.


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## Cdnleaf (5 Nov 2011)

MJP said:
			
		

> I guess considering that the RMC faculty list is open source here on the internet, Catherine Lord might be finding herself deluged with emails.
> 
> Edited for horrible spelling error.  Deluged with emails not deluded .  :facepalm:



Thanks / polite email sent.


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## ModlrMike (6 Nov 2011)

MJP said:
			
		

> Deluged with emails not deluded .  :facepalm:



I'm sure she can be both!


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## Edward Campbell (6 Nov 2011)

Take a look at the comments on the _Globe and Mail_ website; sort them by highest score. Here's an example from someone named rdurandy (posted at 7:13 PM on November 5, 2011): *"Cherry bringing all the military BS into hockey in Canada is offensive to me."*

Although others might have been reluctant to say it, or couldn't be bothered because their hatred for Cherry's overblown rhetoric is greater than their distaste for the military, or, perhaps, even support the troops while they detest Cherry, I suspect that rdurandy is an exemplar of our fellow Canadians: their support for the troops may be a mile wide (lots of red T-shirts) but it's only an inch deep.


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## Humphrey Bogart (6 Nov 2011)

I think what is lost in a lot of this is the fact that a lot of the nominees that receive honorary degrees given out at RMC are nominated by_* THE STUDENTS*_.  That was the case when I was there, and I would imagine this was probably originally proposed by the student body.


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## Dirt Digger (6 Nov 2011)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Take a look at the comments on the _Globe and Mail_ website; sort them by highest score. Here's an example from someone named rdurandy (posted at 7:13 PM on November 5, 2011): *"Cherry bringing all the military BS into hockey in Canada is offensive to me."*
> 
> Although others might have been reluctant to say it, or couldn't be bothered because their hatred for Cherry's overblown rhetoric is greater than their distaste for the military, or, perhaps, even support the troops while they detest Cherry, I suspect that rdurandy is an exemplar of our fellow Canadians: their support for the troops may be a mile wide (lots of red T-shirts) but it's only an inch deep.



If you wanna read Globe and Mail comments, select "highest score" and then go to the bottom of the first page and click "LAST".  That's usually where you find the sane stuff.


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## yoman (6 Nov 2011)

Stymiest said:
			
		

> I think what is lost in a lot of this is the fact that a lot of the nominees that receive honorary degrees given out at RMC are nominated by_* THE STUDENTS*_.  That was the case when I was there, and I would imagine this was probably originally proposed by the student body.



It wasn't. The students get to vote for the honourary graduates but not for the degrees.


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## yoman (6 Nov 2011)

Message from the RMC Club on the matter.



> 06 November 2011
> 
> Dear General Council Members of the Royal Military Colleges Club of Canada (RMCCC). There has been numerous communications on the subject of the offer of an Honorary Degree to Mr. Don Cherry in the last few days, both in the media and within the Club via emails. An Official release from the College announced yesterday 05 November 2011 that Mr. Cherry has declined the honour.
> 
> ...


http://everitas.rmcclub.ca/


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## The Bread Guy (6 Nov 2011)

yoman said:
			
		

> Message from the RMC Club on the matter.
> http://everitas.rmcclub.ca/
> 
> 
> > .... As with most of Canadian universities, the Senate which in the case of RMC is composed of the Chancellor (Minister of National Defence), the Vice Chancellor (The RMCC Commandant), Principal, Deans, DCadet, Registrar and the Directeur des Etudes du RMC SJ, makes the final decision ....


I thought _most_ university senates had teaching staff as members.  If there are no such teaching staff on the RMC Senate, I can understand why it's certain staff opposing the move (ideological... "uniqueness" notwithstanding).


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## Good2Golf (7 Nov 2011)

The Deans of the academic divisions sit on the Senate.


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## The Bread Guy (7 Nov 2011)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> The Deans of the academic divisions sit on the Senate.


I should have been more specific.  Most senates I've heard of have more than just deans sitting representing the teaching staff, specifically, profs elected or selected by other profs to sit in senate.


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## gun runner (7 Nov 2011)

With no disrespect intended to our francophone brothers and sisters in arms, and civillian as well, this 'Language teacher' should have bloody well kept her P's and Q's to herself in this matter, and let a fine man recieve a fine award. This is truly a sad time. My :2c:.  :remembrance:


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## dapaterson (7 Nov 2011)

Here's a thought exercise:  What is the role of RMC?  And how would recognizing Don Cherry fit within that mandate?

Well, according to no less an authority than the CDS,



> 4. THE ROLE OF RMC IS TO
> 
> A. EDUCATE AND TRAIN OFFICER CADETS AND COMMISSIONED OFFICERS FOR A CAREER OF EFFECTIVE SERVICE IN THE CANADIAN FORCES;
> 
> ...



So, how does Don Cherry fit within that framework?


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## bossi (7 Nov 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Here's a thought exercise:  What is the role of RMC?  And how would recognizing Don Cherry fit within that mandate?
> 
> So, how does Don Cherry fit within that framework?



Altruism, charity, loyalty, sincerity and dogged determination (especially against the odds).


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## wannabe SF member (7 Nov 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Here's a thought exercise:  What is the role of RMC?  And how would recognizing Don Cherry fit within that mandate?
> 
> Well, according to no less an authority than the CDS,
> 
> So, how does Don Cherry fit within that framework?



Not to burst your bubble but the institution isn't exclusively dedicated to these objectives anymore in practice. I don't want to go on a rant but the RETP program and over funded and bloated varsity department come to mind.


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## yoman (7 Nov 2011)

Inky said:
			
		

> Not to burst your bubble but the institution isn't exclusively dedicated to these objectives anymore in practice. I don't want to go on a rant but the RETP program and *over funded and bloated varsity department come to mind.*



You've got to be kidding me. Do you even know where a good portion of the varsity teams funding comes from?


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## wannabe SF member (7 Nov 2011)

Quite aware much of it is funded by the club and donations, I believe they shouldn't get *any* money from the college, furthermore, I'm sick of the varsity status being a "get out of military duty free" pass.


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## yoman (7 Nov 2011)

They get a pass on certain military duties because of the time commitment required by their varsity teams. I'm sure if you do the math they spend much more time with their varsity teams then the non-varsity people do on military activities that the varsity athletes get to miss. 

Just for the record, I wasn't a varsity athlete.


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## Infanteer (7 Nov 2011)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Here's a thought exercise:  What is the role of RMC?  And how would recognizing Don Cherry fit within that mandate?
> 
> Well, according to no less an authority than the CDS,
> 
> So, how does Don Cherry fit within that framework?



One can also ask what providing bachelor degrees and making first year cadets walk around Kingston in uniform does to meet those goals.


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## wannabe SF member (7 Nov 2011)

yoman said:
			
		

> They get a pass on certain military duties because of the time commitment required by their varsity teams. I'm sure if you do the math they spend much more time with their varsity teams then the non-varsity people do on military activities that the varsity athletes get to miss.
> 
> Just for the record, I wasn't a varsity athlete.



I'm aware of the time commitment, the problem is that you create a separate class of OCdts at the college who do not follow the same training as the other, effectively putting much more emphasis on the athletic pillar for these students and less on the military one. 

Furthermore, there is often a lack of integrity from players who will avoid duty even though they don't have anything at the time simply because of their status with complicity from some coaches at times. 

The way I see it,  you should be able to do Varsity only if you're able to do everything that other OCdts do at the college such as training weekends or the many parades we have in a year. If that's impossible then perhaps we should reconsider our choice to have RMC participate in Varsity leagues.


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## a_majoor (7 Nov 2011)

What purpose is served by awarding Mr Cherry an honourary degree?

The answer is "A", as in:



> 4. THE ROLE OF RMC IS TO
> 
> A. EDUCATE AND TRAIN OFFICER CADETS AND COMMISSIONED OFFICERS FOR A CAREER OF EFFECTIVE SERVICE IN THE CANADIAN FORCES;



Dealing with the public, cultivating goodwill and being ready with the "30 second pitch" whenever someone asks you about the CF would seem to fall under tht particular heading, and cultivating a person with the public "footprint" of a Don Cherry (or Rick Mercer, who has also had some good words for the CF, to name two) would seem to be a very important task.

The fact that a civil service language instructor is allowed to interfere with such a task should be cause for concern (she can exercise her freedom of speech by writing to the local newspaper or appearing on the local cable channel, that would be a perfect way to express a personal and political opinion separate from the association with RMC); and I do hope the powers that be at RMC take "EDUCATE AND TRAIN OFFICER CADETS AND COMMISSIONED OFFICERS FOR A CAREER OF EFFECTIVE SERVICE IN THE CANADIAN FORCES" both as a broadly based mandate and as a serious commitment.


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## Tank Troll (7 Nov 2011)

Inky said:
			
		

> I'm aware of the time commitment, the problem is that you create a separate class of OCdts at the college who do not follow the same training as the other, effectively putting much more emphasis on the athletic pillar for these students and less on the military one.
> 
> Furthermore, there is often a lack of integrity from players who will avoid duty even though they don't have anything at the time simply because of their status with complicity from some coaches at times.
> 
> The way I see it,  you should be able to do Varsity only if you're able to do everything that other OCdts do at the college such as training weekends or the many parades we have in a year. If that's impossible then perhaps we should reconsider our choice to have RMC participate in Varsity leagues.



This is different than any other military organization/unit. I know lots of guys that went through their careers on a "sports scholarship". In Germany the Regimental whine was" I'm not going to play hockey unless I get (insert course name)" One always hoped that you didn't have any hockey players in your crew because you would  get stuck doing their work as well as your own..

Back on topic every time I've met Don or had any dealings with him he has always been genuine and a big supporter of all thing military.


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## Edward Campbell (8 Nov 2011)

Here, reproduced under the fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the _National Post_, is a pretty _fair_ summation of the Don Cherry situation:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/11/08/don-cherry-%E2%80%94-no-more-insufferable-than-your-loud-least-favourite-uncle


> Don Cherry — no more insufferable than your loud, least-favourite uncle
> 
> Chris Selley
> 
> ...




Like Chris Shelly I come neither to praise nor even to bury Don Cherry and I have no strong views, one way or another, re: an honourary degree from RMC. What I do find objectionable is that Ms. Lord is not called upon, by the media, to provide some concrete examples of Cherry's "contempt for many groups of the Canadian population."


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## Scoobs (8 Nov 2011)

Here's a superb article from the Toronto Sun by Joe Warmington:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/07/grapes-hung-out-to-dry

I am not an RMC grad.  I'm DEO.  I spent some time there doing some OPMEs and I'll tell you, there was one professor that really pissed me off.  The only thing that kept me from telling her where to go was my professionalism.  Her opinions where "way out there", and these are the people that are instructing our future leaders?

As for Mr. Cherry, I fully and wholeheartedly support him.  I have been to Afghanistan and seen first hand the impact of losing personnel.  Working long hours after a death and making sure that the NOK were notified, handling the mortuary affairs paperwork, seeing the Memorial Cross forms and the family that was left behind, the ramp ceremonies for x18 pers, that all placed a huge stress upon me and is probably still with me to this day.  It was nice to purposely stay up late and watch hockey.  To have a distraction from what I had just dealt with.  To watch someone on TV say it what it is like.  To have someone wholeheartedly stand up for us.  THANK YOU MR. CHERRY for providing me with that little break from reality.


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## Scott (8 Nov 2011)

Great article. I've also been kind of stumped by the _lack_ of reaction from RMC.

Maybe I'm missing something?


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## wannabe SF member (8 Nov 2011)

Well most cadets support Don Cherry but there's not that many things we can say without attracting the Ire of our CoC, there was a pretty brutal crackdown on opinionated comments a couple of weeks ago.


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## bossi (9 Nov 2011)

Inky said:
			
		

> ... there was a pretty brutal crackdown on opinionated comments a couple of weeks ago.


(chuckle) Before or after Catherine Lord mailed HER opinionated comments to the newspaper ... ?
Meh.
Here's another column in support of Don - fortunately, retired officers can voice THEIR opinion ...
(two thumbs up for General Lew, as well as Don Cherry of course!)

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/story_print.html?id=5672009&sponsor=

Cherry doesn't need an honorary degree

The controversial broadcaster was right to avoid a circus at RMC, Lewis Mackenzie writes. His devotion to the Canadian Forces speaks for itself

Having just returned from a weeklong conference in Los Angeles late Sunday night I sat down at my PC with a view to catching up with world events beyond Republican candidate Herman Cain and the sexual-harassment controversy which dominated the "news" on every U.S. channel for the entire week.

The No. 1 subject as I scrolled through my emails was Don Cherry's decision to pass on the offer of an honorary degree from the Royal Military College. His decision was of particular interest to my regiment, the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, as Don was made an Honorary Patricia, a rare honour, in 2009. The offer was made and accepted by an emotional Don out of respect and appreciation for his unwavering support of the regiment and the Canadian Forces in general throughout his high-profile media career.

In 1998, my son-in-law at the time was serving in the Balkans with UNPROFOR and he called me with a request that Don come over to the operational theatre to cut the ribbon and open a makeshift Don Cherry's Bar the soldiers had constructed. There was little discussion and no negotiation, just a "where and when?" question from Don. You can imagine the morale boost for the soldiers who never imagined such a treat on "opening night" - in spite of the sans alcohol regulation.

Don has an immense amount of respect for the Canadian Forces and it's not something he does to enhance his on-camera persona. It comes from the heart and it's undoubtedly that respect which prompted him to turn down the offer of the RMC degree. There has been a great deal of controversy surrounding some recent comments he made during the ongoing discussion regarding concussions in the National Hockey League, and their long-term effects on hockey's enforcers - comments he admitted were wrong and apologized for without reservation on CBC. He knew the graduation ceremony at RMC would turn into a media circus. In other settings I would imagine Don would enjoy a media circus and most of us would enjoy watching it, but Don has too much regard for soldiers, and in this case a cohort of young future military leaders, to turn their ceremony of celebration into a sideshow.

Many years ago I was nominated for an honorary RMC degree on the heels of receiving numerous honorary doctorates from civilian universities thanks to the outstanding work done by soldiers who worked with me in Sarajevo. The nomination was rejected thanks to some objections by members of the RMC senate, but at least they didn't write letters to the Kingston paper elaborating on their bias as one French professor did in Cherry's case. Don Cherry earned better than that.

Don Cherry's standing with the Canadian Forces would not be measurably elevated with the acceptance of the RMC degree, but his decision to turn the offer down for all the right reasons certainly has. Good on him.

Major-General (Ret'd) Lewis Mackenzie, PPCLI, was UN Commander, Sector Sarajevo, in 1992.
- 30 -


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## gun runner (9 Nov 2011)

An excellent article! The last sentence spells it all out.  :remembrance:


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## yoman (9 Nov 2011)

Scott said:
			
		

> I've also been kind of stumped by the _lack_ of reaction from RMC.



Stay tuned...


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## The Bread Guy (9 Nov 2011)

Scott said:
			
		

> Great article. I've also been kind of stumped by the _lack_ of reaction from RMC.


There's at least this .... 





> A representative of Royal Military College says he is disappointed Don Cherry has declined an offer of an honorary doctorate but the college has accepted Cherry's decision.
> 
> "It would have been our honour and privilege for Mr. Cherry to have received an honorary degree from the university, in recognition of his outstanding support for our Canadian Forces personnel and for his incredible charitable work," RMC principal Joel Sokolsky stated a release Saturday ....


.... and this so far.


> Canada's Royal Military College defended its decision Friday to award an honorary degree later this month to colourful hockey commentator Don Cherry despite protest from at least one faculty member who said the choice sends the wrong message.
> 
> "People are entitled to their opinions obviously, but this is a decision that the (school) senate makes," said Capt. Cynthia Kent, spokeswoman for the Kingston, Ont., college.
> 
> "The senate stands by its decision to award this honorary degree to Mr. Cherry." ....





			
				yoman said:
			
		

> Stay tuned...


I wait with bated breath....


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## Good2Golf (9 Nov 2011)

yoman said:
			
		

> Stay tuned...



Yoman, it will be a very nice gesture...


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## The Bread Guy (10 Nov 2011)

Interesting details and questions this writer brings up....


> .... One teacher is not the principal villain here. The fault lies with RMC’s leadership for not rallying with a fighting spirit to defend its decision. One hopes that RMC has sufficient battlefield courage to see off the fabrications of a lowly French teacher. It was likely the motion of the faculty board, comprising all the professors and chaired by the principal, which cowed the administration. That poses a rather more disturbing question. Does the faculty board motion accurately express the professoriate at RMC? If so, our future officers are being trained by those significantly out of step with the Canadian people and the rank-and-file members of the armed forces.
> 
> It may be that the motion was passed by the perpetually disgruntled at a sleepy meeting that only a few professors attended. But RMC is being evasive about the whole matter, with its public-affairs office unwilling to say what the motion actually was, how many were present at the meeting, whether the principal was present or not, and what the actual vote was. No doubt Dr. Sokolsky is embarrassed by the faculty motion, but he needs to explain more fully what actually happened, if only to assure his own cadets that they are not being taught by people far outside the mainstream of Canadian society ....


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## Rescue Randy (10 Nov 2011)

Bottom line is that in situations like this, leaders like Lew Mackenzie and Len Birchall instinctively and quickly did what was right, not what was popular (or politically correct).  When the Royal Military College did not immediately react to this situation by doing what was right (ie, reinforcing the nomination and supporting Don Cherry), it raised concerns about the value of the College - if it is not there to set and defend the standard in leadership, morality, and ethics for our future leaders, why does it exist?


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## Good2Golf (11 Nov 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Interesting details and questions this writer brings up....



...but misinformed.

The Senate is THE approving authority for the proposed honour doctorate.  The Faculty Board can come up with whatever vote it wants, but such a 'decision' is not any kind of a decision that binds the Senate to alter its original decision.

The salient points are that: a) the Sentate approved and intended to grant the degree, notwithstanding a non-binding 'decision' by Faculty Board that may or may not have actually represented the 'academic proletariat'; and b) it was indeed Catherine Lord's open letter in the Kingston Whig Standard making dramatic, unsubstantiated accusations that incited a media-accelerated informal campaign to reverse the RMC Senate's decision to award the honourary degree to Don Cherry.


 :2c:

Regards
G2G


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## Alex79 (16 Nov 2011)

Its senate — comprising the chancellor (Defence Minister Peter MacKay), the commandant, the principal, the deans of the faculties, the director of cadets, the academic director of RMC St-Jean, Quebec, and a faculty representative — has, as a body, if not unanimously, proclaimed to Canada’s future military elite that the college is A-OK with gratuitous violence, calling people pukes, trashing multiculturalism and left-wing pinkos who ride bicycles, describing men with long hair as girls, speaking derogatively of francophone Canadians, labelling someone with a non-anglo name as “some kind of dog food” and supporting the U.S. invasion of Iraq.


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## PMedMoe (16 Nov 2011)

Alex79 said:
			
		

> Its senate — comprising the chancellor (Defence Minister Peter MacKay), the commandant, the principal, the deans of the faculties, the director of cadets, the academic director of RMC St-Jean, Quebec, and a faculty representative — has, as a body, if not unanimously, proclaimed to Canada’s future military elite that the college is A-OK with gratuitous violence, calling people pukes, trashing multiculturalism and left-wing pinkos who ride bicycles, describing men with long hair as girls, speaking derogatively of francophone Canadians, labelling someone with a non-anglo name as “some kind of dog food” and supporting the U.S. invasion of Iraq.



 ???


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## Occam (16 Nov 2011)

Alex79 said:
			
		

> Its senate — comprising the chancellor (Defence Minister Peter MacKay), the commandant, the principal, the deans of the faculties, the director of cadets, the academic director of RMC St-Jean, Quebec, and a faculty representative — has, as a body, if not unanimously, proclaimed to Canada’s future military elite that the college is A-OK with gratuitous violence, calling people pukes, trashing multiculturalism and left-wing pinkos who ride bicycles, describing men with long hair as girls, speaking derogatively of francophone Canadians, labelling someone with a non-anglo name as “some kind of dog food” and supporting the U.S. invasion of Iraq.



I don't suppose you happened to read any of the thread up until now, have you?  I didn't think so.


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## Scott (16 Nov 2011)

Go away troll.


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## PMedMoe (16 Nov 2011)

So, Alex79 (according to profile a US Army "lieutenant "), are you jmckee or did you just copy this:  Don Cherry’s Rock’ em Sock ‘em honorary degree     ???


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## The Bread Guy (16 Nov 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> So, Alex79 (according to profile a US Army "lieutenant "), are you jmckee or did you just copy this:  Don Cherry’s Rock’ em Sock ‘em honorary degree     ???


Ah, but the blog entry _appears_ to be signed by Michael Valpy ("~mgv"), and I'd be _shocked_ to see anyone working on  their doctorate cutting/pasting someone else's work without a footnote, acknowledgement or even link to the original post, presenting it as their own work.  Wouldn't you?


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## PMedMoe (16 Nov 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Ah, but the blog entry _appears_ to be signed by Michael Valpy ("~mgv"), and I'd be _shocked_ to see anyone working on  their doctorate cutting/pasting someone else's work without a footnote, acknowledgement or even link to the original post, presenting it as their own work.  Wouldn't you?



Nope, not much shocks me anymore.

Here's what it says about James McKee:



> James McKee is  a doctoral candidate in Political Science at the University of Toronto. HIs doctoral work considers the role of public emotions in political mobilization and public policy. He also writes on humanitarianism *and pretends to know about other things*.



 :rofl:


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## Danjanou (16 Nov 2011)

Well Moe he can't be a real PhD candidate in Poli Sci at U of T then. Everyone knows they "do know about (all) other things" not just pretend. Trust me they'll tell you this at every opportunity.  8)


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## Scott (16 Nov 2011)

My money is on troll.


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