# HMCS Bonaventure, Post-Unification Questions



## CougarKing (27 Jan 2007)

Some of you may think this should have been posted in this other Canadian carrier thread: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36077.15.html

However, I think posting this in a thread of its own would get my question more readily answered.

When the RCN, RCAF and the Canadian Army were unified into CF in the late 1960s, I am assuming that HMCS Bonaventure had at least one year in CF service after that unification. After she had finished her mid 1960s refit, she continued her role as an ASW carrier, according to this source:

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/canada.htm#cvl22

However, since she was retired in 1970, this makes me wonder what would have happened to the naval aircrews aboard her if they were integrated into Aircom before her retirement?  I assume they were recognized as air force squadrons (of detachments thereof). Still would their highest ranking Aircom officer be a Colonel or a Lt. Col.? (This is considering that many US Navy CAGs on their carriers hold the rank of O-6/Captain or O-5 Commander.) This would a strange arrangement to me, since this is the first time instance I aware of in the world where Air Force planes operated off a Navy carrier on a more permanent basis.  

One exception to this would be the RAF and the RN having the Joint Force Harrier unit, but am not sure how frequently RAF Harriers get based on RN Fleet Carriers. 

If ever Canada and Marcom ever sees a need for carriers in the next 50 years and are able to raise the appropriate budget for it, this makes me wonder how an Aircom squadron will be organized on a such a carrier- this will be nothing like the small Aircom Sea King detachments on the Destroyers and Frigates nowadays. 

On a sidenote, how did the Marcom and the British Royal Navy initially decide how who became the skippers of carriers? This baffles me because I used the USN as a reference, since it was usually a CAG or at least any O-6 with flight experienc who became a Carrier's CO. If Marcom had continued operating carriers in the 70s, would that mean a CF Aircom Colonel would be more qualified to command a carrier than any MARS/surface warfare officer back then?

Any thoughts anyone?


----------



## Neill McKay (28 Jan 2007)

Immediately after Unification the naval aircraft and personnel belonged to Matitime Command.  Air Command as we know it today (i.e. comprising all of the aircraft in the Forces) is a more recent arrival -- mid- to late-1970s, I believe.


----------



## CougarKing (29 Jan 2007)

Thanks for the response Neil.

Still is anyone willing to answer this part of my questoin? Thanks in advance.  



> On a sidenote, how did the Marcom and the British Royal Navy initially decide how who became the skippers of carriers? This baffles me because I used the USN as a reference, since it was usually a CAG or at least any O-6 with flight experience who became a Carrier's CO. If Marcom had continued operating carriers in the 70s, would that mean a CF Aircom Colonel would be more qualified to command a carrier than any MARS/surface warfare officer back then?


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO (29 Jan 2007)

CougarKing said:
			
		

> Thanks for the response Neil.
> 
> Still is anyone willing to answer this part of my questoin? Thanks in advance.



I had a very good friend who was a Fleet Air Arm Pilot and flew off the Maggie. According to him In the old days they all were qualified as Navy Line Officers....came up as watch keepers and qualified as Junior Watch keepers etc. They were selected for pilot training and then flew off the Carrier(s) but still maintained their skills as ship drivers...i.e. they still stood bridge watches from time to time. At some point they took their command exams etc and were then qualified to drive/fight the ship. I presume they could keep their hours up as pilots too if they wanted to. Admiral Robert Falls was a Fleet Air Arm pilot who rose to command of the Bonaventure after being a carrier pilot. He later went on to be the Senior Flag Officer on the East Coast and eventually to CDS.
 http://www.underthecat.com/Bonaventurehistory.html
It's hard to speculate on how things would have gone if we had retained the Carrier world. I suspect that the same would have happened as happened in Army Air world. When I was in Petawawa in the early nineties the CO was ex-RCR. He was selected for helicopter training after serving as an Infantry Officer and at unification stayed in the aviation world. He was a LCol in a light blue uniform in 1990 but he came from the Infantry and still retained a lot of his Army formation, which was a good think in my opinion as he understood the needs of the Army.


----------



## geo (29 Jan 2007)

"Tracker" ASW aircraft from the Bonnie were stationed in Summerside PEI.
while the Seakings were and still are stationed in Greenwood NS


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (29 Jan 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> "Tracker" ASW aircraft from the Bonnie were stationed in Summerside PEI.
> while the Seakings were and still are stationed in Greenwood NS



Seakings are in Shearwater not Greenwood... The Auroras and Cormorants are in Greenwood


----------



## geo (29 Jan 2007)

Whups..... sorry. wrong lane


----------



## aesop081 (29 Jan 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Seakings are in Shearwater not Greenwood... The Auroras and Cormorants are in Greenwood



.......and Hercs


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (29 Jan 2007)

TY...I was not sure if any were permamently stationed there or not.... so I never included them


----------



## aesop081 (29 Jan 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> TY...I was not sure if any were permamently stationed there or not.... so I never included them



413 Sqn


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (29 Jan 2007)

Gotcha....see who said you were a big dumb meanie?


----------



## aesop081 (29 Jan 2007)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Gotcha....see who said you were a big dumb meanie?



Thats my reputation here and i like it that way


----------



## baboon6 (16 Feb 2007)

CougarKing said:
			
		

> Thanks for the response Neil.
> 
> Still is anyone willing to answer this part of my questoin? Thanks in advance.



Carrier COs (usually Captains) in the Royal Navy today and AFAIK in the past are surface warfare officers. They are not often aviators and may even be serving on a carrier for the first time. In the Royal Navy full-time aviators are rarely promoted beyond Lieutenant Commander- to gain further promotion an officer must serve a couple of tours as a warfare officer and qualify in this field. The senior aviator on a carrier is the Commander (Air).


----------



## Old Sweat (16 Feb 2007)

To harken back to the question if anyone else had deployed air force aircrew on carriers, during at least some of the period between the two world wars, the RAF provided the the crews on the RN aircraft carriers. This, at least, in part was because the air force was super sensitive to what it perceived as attempts by the army and navy to take back their air assets. The fleet air arm went dark blue a few years before the start of the Second World War. (It was not until 1942 that the British army fielded its first aviation units, the Air OP squadrons which were in fact RAF units.)

For whatever it is worth, commentators have used this to explain the low standard of equipment and training of the fleet air arm in the early days of the war. As the theory goes, the navy did not have the corporate background to develop and sustain its naval aviation, while the air force washed its hands of the experience.


----------

