# Car insurance expired during Basic Training



## goldenhamster (9 Jan 2010)

I plan to drive my old car to St. Jean.  My course will start on Jan 25th 2010 and if everything goes well I will graduate in early May.  However, my car insurance (Ontario) will expire in March 2010.  

I have inquired to insurance company that technically when I move to Quebec I should get Quebec insurance, which involve changing driver license and vehicle registration.  I don't know if this is worth the hassle, because:
1) I will need Quebec residency before changing my driver's license.  I won't have time during Basic to deal with this;  it is impossible to do before Basic either.
2) I will be shipped somewhere else after Basic, likely Gagetown, NB
2) I may have only certain weekends to use my car during Basic Training, so the car will be idle in the parking lot most of the time


On the other hand, it is mentioned in the joining instructions that I need to bring the valid insurance paper if I drive the car to St. Jean, which in my case, won't be valid anymore in the middle of Basic Training.  I can ask the insurance company to extend my Ontario car insurance, but they cannot do it if my current address is in Quebec.   Any suggestions?
 ???


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## PMedMoe (9 Jan 2010)

Keep your current address on your driver's license and insurance until such time as you are posted after all your training is done.


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## Occam (9 Jan 2010)

To expand on PMedMoe's answer:

Renew your Ontario insurance now.  Point out to your current insurance company that when you drive to St.Jean, you won't be there for residency purposes as far as insurance goes.  Depending on the length of your trades training, you may or may not be considered a resident of NB (if that's where you head after BMQ) for insurance purposes.  That may be temporary too - your first "permanent" residence will likely be your first posting after trades training.

If your insurance company gives you a hard time, point out that you'll be attending short duration training in other provinces, and you won't know where your next "official" residence will be until you get a posting message.  Terminating insurance policies early usually incurs a penalty, and the CF will only reimburse you that penalty if you're doing a cost move.  There's no need for you to be starting/cancelling insurance polices willy nilly.



			
				goldenhamster said:
			
		

> I can ask the insurance company to extend my Ontario car insurance, but they cannot do it if my current address is in Quebec.



Your temporary residence will be in Quebec.  Your official residence will remain where you joined, until such a time as you are posted to your first posting and get a cost move.


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## goldenhamster (9 Jan 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions, folks.

Anyhow, things are not that simple.  I don't  have a place called home in Canada, literally.  Every time I have to move to another town, I have to carry all my belongings with me.   My parents reside outside Canada, exactly half a globe away  :.   I have always been a tenant in Canada so far.   Thus, I cannot simply keep my current address for insurance and other administrative purposes.   

On the positive note, I think I have this worked out.  Thankfully I have a very good friend which resides in Quebec that agrees to let me use her address as my home address.  

Don't cry for me Ontario.....thou car insurance rate is stupidly high


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## aesop081 (9 Jan 2010)

goldenhamster said:
			
		

> Thus, I cannot simply keep my current address for insurance and other administrative purposes.



Do you not have a single person in your life that you call a "freind" ?

Use his or her address........it is not complicated.


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## goldenhamster (9 Jan 2010)

CDN Aviator,

Yes, that's my solution actually.   
That 'friend' happens to reside in Quebec.  I have other personal reason why I will change my residency to Quebec.  Of my 8 years I spent in Canada, I was a Quebec resident for 7 years, and Ontario resident for 1 year.   So it is pretty much back to where I was


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## Brasidas (10 Jan 2010)

goldenhamster said:
			
		

> CDN Aviator,
> 
> Yes, that's my solution actually.
> That 'friend' happens to reside in Quebec.  I have other personal reason why I will change my residency to Quebec.  Of my 8 years I spent in Canada, I was a Quebec resident for 7 years, and Ontario resident for 1 year.   So it is pretty much back to where I was



What address are you currently using? Residence at a university? What have you been doing employment-wise that you're claiming to have zilch associates in the province of Ontario close enough to use their address?


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## aesop081 (10 Jan 2010)

goldenhamster said:
			
		

> I have other personal reason why I will change my residency to Quebec.  Of my 8 years I spent in Canada, I was a Quebec resident for 7 years, and Ontario resident for 1 year.   So it is pretty much back to where I was



As you will leave Quebec after basic training...you could have saved yourself some money and a fair bit of frustration by just changing your address and keeping your Ontario stuff.


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## armychick2009 (10 Jan 2010)

I would keep your Ontario address (whatever one you have used on your application and what is on your drivers license and health card.). 

Also, if you are driving, you won't be reimbursed the full amount by the forces if you end up with a Quebec address.... for actually getting there, leaves or whatever, on BMQ. Also, it can affect where they send you home for Christmas or your once-a-year travel assistance. They go based on your recruiting centre I believe but they send you to wherever your home-base is. Yea, i know your family is off half a globe away but... you know what I mean? Flights from Toronto are cheaper than flights from middle-of-nowhere Quebec, depending where your friend lives.

Ask your insurance company to continue the same plan you have going now and ask for month-by-month payments as opposed to paying a full-year. Insurance isn't the only thing crazily priced in Quebec but also their driver's license, which I think is like, $400 a year or something?  You're shooting yourself in the foot by making that switch. Save yourself potentially thousands and keep your current address as your base address.... besides, if you DO have to cancel your policy by moving to another province, that's something the forces takes care of. Usually, most insurance companies CAN continue to insure you in other provinces with a revised policy. No adjustments required and maybe just a change in how much you pay, obviously.

By the way... if you change your address to a quebec one, you will need to have your file transferred to a quebec recruiting place. I know this part because I was in Petawawa and trying to decide if I should apply in Pembroke (which I did, as it was closest at the time) but had to decide if I would have my home base be North Bay or Ottawa. I choose North Bay so my file got moved there. It affects everything down the line from reimbursement, to the travel-assistance program to whatever... make a wise choice. Don't react because you think you need to, do it because you have to. 

Good luck with whatever you choose!


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## goldenhamster (10 Jan 2010)

Folks, I have done research around this matter since I know I have to deal with it before Basic

@ Brasidas
I currently rent an apartment; I have to break the lease before I leave for Basic and thus my current address (in Ontario) means nothing in the future, i.e., I don't want my mail to go there anymore,  I won't go there for holiday, etc.  Though, I understand that I have to 'keep' it for administrative purposes.   It just happened that I was working temporarily in Ontario when I applied to CF.  

@ armychick2009
Thanks for the input!  I have calculate what it will cost me to switch to Quebec.  Driver license costs more in Quebec because it includes the (government) insurance for the driver.  Quebecers buy private insurance for the car only.   In contrast, Ontarians have to purchase private insurance for both the driver and the car.  Cost-wise Quebec system is considerably cheaper for me, in addition of having an address that I can trust.  But, as you mentioned, the implication of this choice may be against me in the future.  I'll think about all this  

@ CDN Aviator
Avoiding frustration, that's the ultimate goal.   It seems that I have to pick a friend's Ontario address;  a bit difficult because most of my friends are nomads like myself.


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## DonaldMcL (10 Jan 2010)

My suggestion, before you go and commit insurance fraud is to call "The Personal" insurance company. They were recommended to me by my old insurance company when I was posted out to Winnipeg as they have the experience of dealing with military members.

You're not the first person to have this issue, but I'd hate to see you get in a bad accident have the insurance company cancel your policy because you lied.

You're better off getting it setup properly, then trying to find loopholes, which can close easily.


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## RubberTree (10 Jan 2010)

The personel has worked well for me aswell..
Believe me its not worth it to be pulled over by the MPs in St Jean with expired insurance (and plates). Trust me on this one.


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## Occam (10 Jan 2010)

There's a reason why a lot of members don't go with The Personal - it's called "Post-claim service".  I hope you never need to make a claim with them...

As long as the original poster is honest with their current insurer, and explains the temporary relocation requirements over the next little while, there won't be any problems staying with them, nor with retaining Ontario plates.

The important part is to communicate with the insurer and MTO.


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## PMedMoe (10 Jan 2010)

Occam said:
			
		

> There's a reason why a lot of members don't go with The Personal - it's called "Post-claim service".  I hope you never need to make a claim with them...


I never had a problem with my claim with them.


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## stealthylizard (10 Jan 2010)

As stated earlier, don't risk driving without insurance.  I was caught by the MP's, and fined $2875 in Edmonton.


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## Ksiiqtaboo (10 Jan 2010)

I got a quote from "The Personal" and they quoted me lower than what my current insurance company is giving me... so this is gonna be an easy switch


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## Occam (10 Jan 2010)

Ksiiqtaboo said:
			
		

> I got a quote from "The Personal" and they quoted me lower than what my current insurance company is giving me... so this is gonna be an easy switch



There are some out there that will beat The Personal...TD Insurance Meloche Monnex for one.  My insurance is about $300/yr cheaper with them than with The Personal.  Unfortunately, you're only 19 and probably don't meet some of their eligibility criteria, so they probably wouldn't touch you.  It definitely pays to shop around for insurance.


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Jan 2010)

armychick2009 said:
			
		

> Also, if you are driving, you won't be reimbursed the full amount by the forces if you end up with a Quebec address.... for actually getting there, leaves or whatever, on BMQ.



Ref: the part I've put in yellow, what does "leaves or whatever" mean and what are you suggesting is reimbursed?



> Also, it can affect where they send you home for Christmas or your once-a-year travel assistance.



You are talking about LTA (Leave Travel Assistance), but what you are saying is incorrect.  For LTA, the CF will usually only give you LTA per fiscal if you travel to your primary next of kin, or if your Primary NOK travels to where you are (reverse LTA).  It has nothing to do with where you were recruited.  

The CF isn't responsible to get you home at Christmas (talking about normal duty in Canada here) but there are things in place like the annual Christmas/New Years travel plan where mbr's can apply for seats on an Airbus that travels from east-west and rtn, or they can use their LTA if they already haven't used one that FY.  Again, I realize you're trying to be helpful but anyone reading your post with no TI might not realize it was off target.



> They go based on your recruiting centre I believe but they send you to wherever your home-base is.



I've read that a few times, and am still confusd as to what you are trying to say.   :blotto:



> Yea, i know your family is off half a globe away but... you know what I mean? Flights from Toronto are cheaper than flights from middle-of-nowhere Quebec, depending where your friend lives.



The policy on LTA for mbrs with Primary NOK outside of Canada is also covered in the policy on LTA.  I don't happen to have the DCBA Aide Memoire handy to reference.


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## PMedMoe (10 Jan 2010)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> The policy on LTA for mbrs with Primary NOK outside of Canada is also covered in the policy on LTA.  I don't happen to have the DCBA Aide Memoire handy to reference.


I do.   ;D

Member on duty in Canada whose Primary NOK is outside of Canada or the Continental US:

Direct return road distance from St. Johns, NF or Victoria, BC (whichever is further) to the location in Canada where the place of duty or home is located.


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## armychick2009 (10 Jan 2010)

Eye in the Sky, 

Okay - part of this could be confusion on my part. I can admit when I'm wrong, I'm a big girl   I may be getting the part where your address is essential, is when they do the move portion. For example, here's my situation. I was in Petawawa. Separated from my ex. I applied to the forces from Pembroke. But because I was moving to North Bay, I had to store my furniture somewhere. Store it in Petawawa? Ottawa? Or North Bay? That was my dilemma.  He said if I stored it in Ottawa (where my father is) that I would need (in order for my move to be covered) to apply out of the Ottawa office. However, as I wanted all of my recruiting to be in North Bay, I had to move my stuff to storage here.  So, that's why I assumed that this person could potentially have some issues with changing his address around DURING the recruiting process, for whatever reason. Will their file get moved to Quebec, potentially delaying any start dates? Will it stay where they originally signed up? I think I was just trying to encourage him to check out things before making a decision. 

Also, another reason I thought that he may need to do this... my ex twenty years ago applied to the army based out of the Sudbury office. When his service is done, they will pay to move his crap back to the Sudbury area or keep it in the area he retires at. However, he's from Timmins (five to 7 hours north of Sudbury).  I was considering that as well... he can't change where he was recruited from, you know? (Does this make sense? It's how my ex explained it to me...)

And, the "leaves or whatever"... I was referring -- for example, those with BMQ that spans over the Christmas holidays -- is that kind of travel not covered? I may be wrong, I haven't got there yet. But I know my friend who lives out in BC, certainly could not have afforded a flight home for 3 weeks... would this be counted as their once-a-year Leave Travel Assistance? And, is this travel not meant to go to where you were recruited? Which is more often than not, where your NOK would be located at?

I'm also aware of the in-service flights that may be available depending on space/allowance, etc... but, I didn't want to bring that into the conversation. 

Thanks for clearing up things!


(Sorry, when I referred to home base meaning... well, I don't know. It was late at night I think... I guess it could be interpreted as NOK)


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## Occam (10 Jan 2010)

armychick2009 said:
			
		

> Also, another reason I thought that he may need to do this... my ex twenty years ago applied to the army based out of the Sudbury office. When his service is done, they will pay to move his crap back to the Sudbury area or keep it in the area he retires at. However, he's from Timmins (five to 7 hours north of Sudbury).  I was considering that as well... he can't change where he was recruited from, you know? (Does this make sense? It's how my ex explained it to me...)



You're talking about IPR, or Intended Place of Residence.  Simply put, if you release with 10 years or less, you're eligible for a move back to your place of enrolment (or anywhere else, so long as it's no further than your place of enrolment).  If you release with >10 years service, you get a move anywhere in Canada.



> And, the "leaves or whatever"... I was referring -- for example, those with BMQ that spans over the Christmas holidays -- is that kind of travel not covered? I may be wrong, I haven't got there yet. But I know my friend who lives out in BC, certainly could not have afforded a flight home for 3 weeks... would this be counted as their once-a-year Leave Travel Assistance? And, is this travel not meant to go to where you were recruited? Which is more often than not, where your NOK would be located at?



LTA is to assist with travel to the location of your Primary NOK (or them to you, in the case of reverse LTA).  Place of enrolment has nothing to do with it.


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## goldenhamster (10 Jan 2010)

BobSlob said:
			
		

> My suggestion, before you go and commit insurance fraud is to call "The Personal" insurance company. They were recommended to me by my old insurance company when I was posted out to Winnipeg as they have the experience of dealing with military members.
> 
> You're not the first person to have this issue, but I'd hate to see you get in a bad accident have the insurance company cancel your policy because you lied.



As Hogwarts headmaster Albus Dumbledore said, there will be times that you will have to choose what is right or what is easy.  I never have any intentions to commit fraud.   The source of my problem is my nomad condition in Canada, where I don't have a place I can call home and insurance company policy regarding address.  

I guess I will need an insurance to protect me against insurance company.  :

Peace everyone!


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## aesop081 (10 Jan 2010)

Such a simple situation and you are turning it ino the complexity level of the Normandy invasion........


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## MasterInstructor (10 Jan 2010)

Just sell the car...  ;D


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## Kat Stevens (10 Jan 2010)

Or, renew your insurance now, therefore your current license, tag, and address are legit.  Go to St Jean and keep your gob shut.  The  MPs for the most part are pretty savvy, and understand that the Mega is not your residence, it's basically a dorm room for a short term.  As long as license, reg, insurance, and tags are current, I'm sure you'd be 5x5.


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