# Some people get it; some people don't



## curious george

Has this every happened to you (as a CF member or applicant)?

i've run into the third person in my everyday life who, after learning i'm applying for the military, ask, "Why would you want to do that?"  I can sense the underlying disapproval.  I know exactly why I'm applying and I don't feel I have to justify it to anyone (except to recruiters). 

How do you politely respond to the person when it happens?  If I ever have the exceptional privelege of putting on the uniform some day, I wonder whether those same people will ask me, "Why would you want to do that?"

Perhaps it could be a "teaching" moment, but that takes a lot of patience.


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## Connorp23

The answer is right in your title. Shrug your shoulders, say it and move on.


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## estoguy

I agree with the above.

In my case, I've been very fortunate - anyone I've spoken to about it have been very supportive.


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## Pieman

Someone who says "Why would you want to do that?" probably can't see themselves purposely putting themselves in a situation where they might end up getting killed. They are probably smarter than us. 

I have been asked this many question times when I was in the joining process, and my response was "I want to see what I am made of." People seem to understand that to a certain level.


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## Jarnhamar

Just walk away man.





then, get some distance......turn around and ........do what terry tate would do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8702Im2P18


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## Donny

ObedientiaZelum is right!

Anybody i have talked to was very supportive.


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## Eye In The Sky

Or, tell them why you want to join, whatever your reasons are.  Keep it simple and honest while looking them in the eye the whole time.

Or say, "Well, I could do some wanker job like "insert their job title here" but who would want to do that?"


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## George Wallace

I had a Security Guard at the university ask me what I did in those dark years long ago, and I told her that I worked for the Government.  When she pressed me to be more specific over several questions, I eventually said I was in the Army.  She replied: "Oh!  How gross.  You kill people."  I then proceeded to ask her what she did.  She replied that she was going to Holland College Police Academy.  Yeah!  Right!  At the time, she would have been more likely to kill someone.   Many of these people really have no clue of what they are talking about.  It is best to ignore them for the most part.


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## jparkin

curious george said:
			
		

> Has this every happened to you (as a CF member or applicant)?
> 
> i've run into the third person in my everyday life who, after learning i'm applying for the military, ask, "Why would you want to do that?"  I can sense the underlying disapproval.  I know exactly why I'm applying and I don't feel I have to justify it to anyone (except to recruiters).



Yep, my girlfriend. I told her the exact things I told my interviewing officer. She still isn't stoked about the idea, but like you said, why should I have to justify my decision? Or do what Eye In The Sky said.


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## PrettyMaggie63

I would just walk away, if someone isn't respectful of your choices, why do they deserve the respect of a reply from you.


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## aesop081

curious george said:
			
		

> I don't feel I have to justify it to anyone (except to recruiters).



How about you stop thinking of it as "justifying yourself" and start thinking of it as "informing someone else" ?

Canadians, in large part, are ignorant of all things military and have their minds formed by media headlines and Hollywood movies. Play your part and tell people the reason's you are joining. Might be the first time they hear, in actual facts, of everything the military has to offer.

Remember, you are a recruiter too.


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## Ayrsayle

I tend to direct people toward this: http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
He does a better job explaining things then I currently can.

I'm in agreement with CDN Aviator - It is a teaching moment. 

For many of the posters previous, you might want to consider hostility as simple ignorance. We serve Canada (and it's citizens) and that means more then just taking up arms in their defense - Since they pay our bills and give us our jobs the least we can do is explain why we do what we do. They might not all be supportive, but at least they can be aware.


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## estoguy

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> I tend to direct people toward this: http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
> He does a better job explaining things then I currently can.
> 
> I'm in agreement with CDN Aviator - It is a teaching moment.
> 
> For many of the posters previous, you might want to consider hostility as simple ignorance. We serve Canada (and it's citizens) and that means more then just taking up arms in their defense - Since they pay our bills and give us our jobs the least we can do is explain why we do what we do. They might not all be supportive, but at least they can be aware.



Thanks for that link Ayrsayle!  Fantastic!


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## curious george

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> How about you stop thinking of it as "justifying yourself" and start thinking of it as "informing someone else" ?
> 
> Canadians, in large part, are ignorant of all things military and have their minds formed by media headlines and Hollywood movies. Play your part and tell people the reason's you are joining. Might be the first time they hear, in actual facts, of everything the military has to offer.
> 
> Remember, you are a recruiter too.



This is exactly the problem; you've nailed it.  To him and probably to most Canadians, they think military is only combat because that's whats on the news.  I told him that combat arms is only one set of occupations.  I have seen my own transformation over the last several months coming to this board and doing my own research into the organization.  I remember being astounded at how many support occupations are involved so that those in the combat arms can do their job well.  In the media, you never hear about the guy or gal who fixes the wheels on the bus, or the cook who keeps up morale, or the pharmacist who organizes the medications, etc.

You have excellent advice.  I will do my part.

As for the link from Ayrsayle, amazing!  Sheepdogs.

I really appreciate all the comments from people here.


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## TangoTwoBravo

curious george said:
			
		

> How do you politely respond to the person when it happens?  If I ever have the exceptional privelege of putting on the uniform some day, I wonder whether those same people will ask me, "Why would you want to do that?"



If you can answer the question then answer it. You do not need their approval, but neither do you need to fight them about it. Be honest with your reasons for joining and offer those.


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## jemcgrg

I've been in the process for 3 years now and have been asked a lot. I tend to go into a long explanation to all of these people of all the reasons I want to join. Usually by the end of it whether they would agree or not they at least understand. Almost every time their answer has been similar to "Wow, that's great. Good luck!"


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## JPye

I currently work in health care, and my experiences range from working with the dying to the extremely disabled. I hear "I don't know how you do it" and "why would you want to do that?" all the time!

Always give the same answer. "Someone has to do it."

Funny thing is, when it came to the military, no one asked me why (except in the interview, of course).


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## RCDtpr

I was asked this the other day by someone in your typical white collar office job.  My answer?  I asked him the exact same question about his job........


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## Journeyman

I tend to emphasize the opportunities, travel, adventure, challenges.....


...unless I'm talking with obviously hostile university students and their equally ill-informed left-wing fellow-travellers. For them, I merely say that "it's so I can burn villages." It's worth it, just for the variety of expressions transitting their faces.


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## GAP

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I tend to emphasize the opportunities, travel, adventure, challenges.....
> 
> 
> ...unless I'm talking with obviously hostile university students and their equally ill-informed left-wing fellow-travellers. For them, I merely say that "it's so I can burn villages." It's worth it, just for the variety of expressions transitting their faces.



don't forget the child killer quip....that riles them up something fierce...  :nod:


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## Journeyman

GAP said:
			
		

> don't forget the child killer quip....that riles them up something fierce...  :nod:


No, there's lines that even I avoid crossing.



.....I usually recognize those lines after I've crossed them.


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## GAP

Journeyman said:
			
		

> No, there's lines that even I avoid crossing.
> 
> 
> 
> .....I usually recognize those lines after I've crossed them.



Sooo.....it's fair that they call you that, but you can't .....don't seem fair...... :


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## Journeyman

GAP said:
			
		

> Sooo.....it's fair that they call you that, but you can't .....don't seem fair...... :


....especially in restaurants and pubs   :nod:


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## bridges

A few people have recommended walking away... an understandable temptation, but that won't help the conversation - unless you're truly having one of those "if you can't say something nice..." moments.  

Outside of a few communities with large bases, many Canadians don't know any soldiers personally.  As you're finding out, you're now a spokesperson for the CF.  Be honest about your answer and it sounds like you'll do just fine.


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## HopefulA.B.

That was going to be my question last week. .

Ya, a teacher i told said, "Why would you want to do a sily thing like that?" I wonder why does the military get disaproved alot? In my view anyways (My dad for one...)


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## curious george

bridges said:
			
		

> Outside of a few communities with large bases, many Canadians don't know any soldiers personally.  As you're finding out, you're now a spokesperson for the CF.  Be honest about your answer and it sounds like you'll do just fine.



I find your first statement so true.  I read the book "FOB Doc" by Captain Ray Wiss, a reservist  medical officer (with an infantry background), who went to Afghanistan.  I put the book down and thought, "Every Canadian has to read this book."  He did such a good job of providing context and filling in the knowledge gap.  And it made me so proud to be Canadian!


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## OldSolduer

curious george said:
			
		

> "Every Canadian has to read this book."  He did such a good job of providing context and filling in the knowledge gap.





ummmm sorry....Dancing With The Stars was on......and Grey's Anatomy too.


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## aesop081

curious george said:
			
		

> I find your first statement so true.  I read the book "FOB Doc" by Captain Ray Wiss, a reservist  medical officer (with an infantry background), who went to Afghanistan.  I put the book down and thought, "Every Canadian has to read this book."  He did such a good job of providing context and filling in the knowledge gap.  And it made me so proud to be Canadian!



I read it too.

You wouldn't happen to know a way i could get that time back, eh ?


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## HopefulA.B.

Time travel.


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## DeEmEn

It's all because those people watch too much movies, and think that the military is all about war and killing... It's unfortunate that the media has such influence with civilian.


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## Waters81

curious george said:
			
		

> I find your first statement so true.  I read the book "FOB Doc" by Captain Ray Wiss, a reservist  medical officer (with an infantry background), who went to Afghanistan.  I put the book down and thought, "Every Canadian has to read this book."  He did such a good job of providing context and filling in the knowledge gap.  And it made me so proud to be Canadian!



I agree, it was an amazing book. His second one ("A Line In The Sand") was just as good. There are a ton of other books to read as well that would make people rethink their view on our forces. I could spit out a dozen titles...but I wont right now.


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## bridges

Waters81 said:
			
		

> I could spit out a dozen titles...but I wont right now.



Ok... get back to us when you're ready.


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## Sizzle709

I usually just tell people that they clearly aren't educated about the subject and that they aren't worth my time.


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## Waters81

bridges said:
			
		

> Ok... get back to us when you're ready.



Okay...I'm ready now,
"Tarnished Brass, Bastard Sons, 15 Days, Outside the Wire, No Lack of Courage, Fortune Favours the Brave,On Combat, On Killing"...
to name a few.


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## Waters81

Sizzle709 said:
			
		

> I usually just tell people that they clearly aren't educated about the subject and that they aren't worth my time.



You're right which is why I read the books I did. Too many people I've spoken to have such misguided ideas and opinions on what the Canadian Forces are, what they're doing and what they've done, or they think that I don't know what I'm getting into. To an extent they are correct, but I'm not walking into it blind. One thing that no one can say is that I haven't busted my ass over the last 4 years to finally get accepted.


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## curious george

I had another "incident" a week ago that I haven't bothered to post about, but since this thread is alive again, I will.  Honestly, I'm just trying to deal with it on my own by knowing when to filter and press the ignore button.  Here it is:

A guy in my neighbourhood tried to be "helpful" and wanted to leave me with some things to think about before I join the CF: i'm essentially a pawn, we had no business being in Afghanistan, 9/11 was not done by terrorists, and its all about the money.  Unfortunately, it really hit a nerve in me, and I had a really s****y day.  I got to work really angry. He went on and told me that if I really feel its my calling then I should just work with Doctors Without Borders.  Stupid me wasted my breath and energy trying to differentiate military nursing/soldiering versus humanitarian/civilian nursing.  In retrospect, if I ever meet someone like that again I will say, "You know, my dad gave me some really sound advice: don't discuss religeon or politics with anyone, especially people I don't know well".  I don't discuss those things with people, but this guy tried to drag me in it!  I could be wrong, but I think people like that take advantage of their freedoms (especially speech), but don't appreciate where it came from.

I'd appreciate any additional helpful comments or insights into the situation. Or perhaps you have your own story.

Plus, is there any legitimacy to what he says?  ie. do you see yourself as a pawn?  Do you bother yourself with what and who profits?  Or whether or not you should be somewhere in the world? And how the heck do you function if you do?


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## Scott

curious george said:
			
		

> I had another "incident" a week ago that I haven't bothered to post about, but since this thread is alive again, I will.  Honestly, I'm just trying to deal with it on my own by knowing when to filter and press the ignore button.  Here it is:
> 
> A guy in my neighbourhood tried to be "helpful" and wanted to leave me with some things to think about before I join the CF: i'm essentially a pawn, we had no business being in Afghanistan, 9/11 was not done by terrorists, and its all about the money.  Unfortunately, it really hit a nerve in me, and I had a really s****y day.  I got to work really angry. He went on and told me that if I really feel its my calling then I should just work with Doctors Without Borders.  Stupid me wasted my breath and energy trying to differentiate military nursing/soldiering versus humanitarian/civilian nursing.  In retrospect, if I ever meet someone like that again I will say, "You know, my dad gave me some really sound advice: don't discuss religeon or politics with anyone, especially people I don't know well".  I don't discuss those things with people, but this guy tried to drag me in it!  I could be wrong, but I think people like that take advantage of their freedoms (especially speech), but don't appreciate where it came from.
> 
> I'd appreciate any additional helpful comments or insights into the situation. Or perhaps you have your own story.
> 
> Plus, is there any legitimacy to what he says?  ie. do you see yourself as a pawn?  Do you bother yourself with what and who profits?  Or whether or not you should be somewhere in the world? And how the heck do you function if you do?



If you listen, or give any amount of time, to every mouth breathing idiot who thinks they understand all facets of the Canadian Military's involvement in 'X' then you will go nuts. Be an ambassador, not someone's soundping post for rhetoric. Or at the very least, do yourself a favour and simply ignore it.

I feel like more of a pawn working private industry in oil and gas than I ever did in uniform. And some days we are treated that way. Fact.

But if I took it to heart every time some tree hugging arsehole told me how I am akin to Satan because I play on offshore rigs I would have gone nuts long ago, or would have been boarding rigs and chaining myself to them in Greenland instead of working safely and quietly, which is our best defense.

I am not trying to be a dink, but if you cannot handle this sort of thing without going to work angry and having a shitty day then you might want to stay on civvy side. 

When we have dinner parties we always have one or two among the wife's friends who like to stir shit up with me. And I have a great time telling them, dripping with sarcasm, that I only killed X number of baby dolphins last trip because of seismic shots; or that some birds really can fly after swimming into an oil slick; or that Deppwater Horizon was really a Taliban attack. At least one will take me seriously and fucking near implode - it's brilliant! But most of the time I sit back and wonder what it's like to flap at the lips when you really know nothing about what you speak of. Then I smile at their retardation.


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## Pte. Jay

You can try and explain it all you want, and they might nod their head and say that they get it, but believe me, until they've done it themselves they'd never understand why we do what we do...


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## aesop081

Pte. Jay said:
			
		

> but believe me, until they've done it themselves they'd never understand why we do what we do...





			
				Pte. Jay said:
			
		

> I actually just printed out the application form a few days ago!



Right.........

 :


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## Pte. Jay

Really!  I turn 16 in August, and the recruiter I emailed said that I could begin the application in February


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## aesop081

Pte. Jay said:
			
		

> Really!  I turn 16 in August, and the recruiter I emailed said that I could begin the application in February



Wow...that went right over your head didn't it............


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## Pte. Jay

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Wow...that went right over your head didn't it............


No no, I realize I said "What we do", but I said that not because I'm a soldier "wannabe", but what I meant was that I fall under similar scrutiny from aunts and uncles


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## bridges

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Wow...that went right over your head didn't it............



Not for the first time, it seems to me we need a smiley for that.


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## PMedMoe

bridges said:
			
		

> Not for the first time, it seems to me we need a smiley for that.



This: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  or this:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ;D


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## Journeyman

bridges said:
			
		

> Not for the first time, it seems to me we need a smiley for that.


We have one:
                     :ignore:
     
.....because "some people get it; some people don't."


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## bridges

PMedMoe said:
			
		

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> or this:
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Ha!  I like the "whoosh" one - it comes across a bit more clearly.  The Ignore button is always useful too, of course.

Mods, can we add another smiley to the expanding list?  A picture is worth a thousand words!  Or nine, anyway.


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## bridges

Pte. Jay said:
			
		

> No no, I realize I said "What we do", but I said that not because I'm a soldier "wannabe", but what I meant was that I fall under similar scrutiny from aunts and uncles



Make your case politely, and then do what you think is right.   :nod:   They will come around.


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## Pte. Jay

bridges said:
			
		

> Make your case politely, and then do what you think is right.   :nod:   They will come around.


They're fine with me wanting to make a part time job out of it, but not with my wanting to make a career out of it. But then again, I could really care less what they think


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## davidc538

I generally don't bother explaining to people why I want to join, I don't see why we should have to prove to anyone aside from the CF that we want to join and why we want to join. I am known for being a bit arrogant though.


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## Steve_D

When I leave the house in the morning in my uniform, I look at my wife and say "I am off to defend democracy!"  She gets a kick out of it, but thinks that it is actually a good line.  We live in a great country and serving it is the biggest honour anyone can do.  As far as those who put it down...I say "don't let them rent space in your head".  If you ask those on civie street if they are truly proud of the company they work for; most could not answer it honestly; yet we can. There is something to be said about that.

my  :2c:


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## dimsum

Steve_D said:
			
		

> If you ask those on civie street if they are truly proud of the company they work for; most could not answer it honestly; yet we can. There is something to be said about that.



QFT.  I have a hard time understanding the whole "job-hopping" notion, where you work somewhere but are constantly and actively looking for the next bigger, better job.  I, for one, am glad I'm not on civ street.


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## Determined

I am still in the application process but I do believe it's up to us to educate on many levels. Regardless of being in the CF. 
I have found that many don't understand cos they can't relate 
As human beings most times we are unable to say much because we have to relate first or somehow personalize it. 
My response is always the same. 
A life with purpose
Extreme Physicsl activity
Regiment routine, structure and discipline. 
Lots of travel
Pension
Medical
Lots of opportunities. 
Why wouldn't I want to join
As for having to kill. Every day I was leading an unhealthy lifestyle I was killing myself slowly but to defend my country is a very honorable purpose in life and in return my country is willing to take care of me 
I may be naive to the politics but if I wanted to get into politics I would have specialized in political social science. 

That terry rate vid was hilarious btw. Also thanks for the website from the other poster. 
Cheers


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## pretentious

Pieman said:
			
		

> Someone who says "Why would you want to do that?" probably can't see themselves purposely putting themselves in a situation where they might end up getting killed. They are probably smarter than us.



Saw this and HAD to respond, not sure if others have posted similarly...

You're right because most civilians do not live for a thrill at a club while drinking copious amounts of alcohol.
Most civilians do not smoke tobacco... Drugs... Neglect of physical exercise...


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## The Bread Guy

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I have a hard time understanding the whole "job-hopping" notion, where you work somewhere but are constantly and actively looking for the next bigger, better job.  I, for one, am glad I'm not on civ street.


I think it's either:
1)  they haven't found what they "want" (for better or worse), or 
2)  they don't know what they want.
While my current job is VERY good to me, few of my civvy jobs had the esprit de corps and cameraderie I remember from even Reserve service during some of the "days of darkness".


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## Loachman

pretentious said:
			
		

> Saw this and HAD to respond, not sure if others have posted similarly...
> 
> You're right because most civilians do not live for a thrill at a club while drinking copious amounts of alcohol.
> Most civilians do not smoke tobacco... Drugs... Neglect of physical exercise...



What is your point?


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## zander1976

Hello, 

Service comes in many forms but all of them require a commitment to something greater then themselves. Soldiers, police, volunteers, etc all give their time and potentially their life for others. Why would someone do this? Why bother when you can just say home and watch tv, play xbox or ps3? To me, service is for people that demand more from life then just money. Humanity needs help and I couldn't expect someone else to stand up if I wasn't willing to do it myself.

I was lucky enough to be born in Canada so I can choose to serve, choose to get an education or choose do whatever I want. I am free and everybody deserves the same right as me. 

Thanks,
Ben


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## Pte. Jay

zander1976 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Service comes in many forms but all of them require a commitment to something greater then themselves. Soldiers, police, volunteers, etc all give their time and potentially their life for others. Why would someone do this? Why bother when you can just say home and watch tv, play xbox or ps3? To me, service is for people that demand more from life then just money. Humanity needs help and I couldn't expect someone else to stand up if I wasn't willing to do it myself.
> 
> I was lucky enough to be born in Canada so I can choose to serve, choose to get an education or choose do whatever I want. I am free and everybody deserves the same right as me.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ben



You can just decide to sit at home, there certainly isn't anybody forcing you to serve. I'm sure nobody would hate you for not wanting to serve. The reason why I want to join up is to help this great country stay strong and free. Like you said, you were lucky enough to be born in Canada, where you can CHOOSE to serve. I want to help fight for the freedom of choice and opinion that we often take for granted in this fine nation.


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