# Canadian Forces Aptitude Test  (CFAT) [MERGED]



## Se7eN

Hi,
    Well I feel like a right moron right now. I just failed my CFAT. I cannot belive it actually. I have a 92% avg in English and a 78% in math. When I was given the practice problems it said it would be a simple test and I was informed there would be no real need to study. But I failed and I am real confused, anyone else had this problem or am I unique? It seemed the practice questions I was given were not even representitive of the test.


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## PTE Fader

While we were instructed not to specifically discuss the test, you could have filled in the wrong square and gotten all the questions following it incorrect.  Even still, you wern‘t supposed to study them, since they determine what you‘re best suited for without preparation.  What did you apply for, if i may ask?
...
Furthermore, how old are you/what grade are you in?


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## Se7eN

I didnt actually mean discuss questions i meant the test in general, pass/fail type thing not the specifics, at all. And Im 17, grade 11 pretty much honor roll except fo physics and math.


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## fortuncookie5084

Sounds strange to me, especially for someone applying to 031 INF.  Those tests are used to help determine aptitude for technical trades.  They went over them a lot more closely when I applied the first time as a Naval Combat Information Operator (purely information-related, technical MOC).  You must ask them what went wrong, and have a talk with your unit recruiting people.  If they‘re as helpful as those at my unit, they‘ll get to the bottom of this.


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## Disturbance

I came out of high school with an almost straight A average and when I tried to get into RMC and took the aptitude test they said I failed it to. I could have sworn I missed one and the rest were wrong but you cant look at it or even retake it for a year. However applying to be in the reserves 1.5 years later I did not have to take the test again because the score I had was good enough for the res. go figure. 

During the test I felt kinda choked cause all the sequences and series stuff I hadnt learned yet and then the next week in school we were taught it go figure as well.


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## bossi

Everybody has a bad day, and some days are not good days to be bad days ... (hmmm ...).

It‘s doubly unfortunate that you were only taught some of the stuff too late (i.e. AFTER you wrote the test) - an abject lesson in why it‘s a good idea to finish school first (but, I digress ...)

When I was in recruiting (a long time ago) it was explained to me that mathematics is very important in the testing procedure (since every part of the military needs to work with numbers - bullets, bombs, or torpedoes).  Accordingly, since you mentioned you hadn‘t learned some of the stuff until after writing the test, we can assume your math results were not as good as they might have been (and therefore, it‘s entirely possible this portion of the test dragged down your overall score).

A tough lesson to learn, I concede - but, it‘s better to learn it at a young age as opposed to later on in life when you‘re trying to support your family.  Ultimately, you‘ll see this is just a speed bump on the highway of life ...

Hang in there.
M.B.

P.S. (I guess I should confess - I was a math whiz in high school, even winning the senior math award in Grade 9, which meant I beat the Grade 13 students, too.  I was 19 when I applied, and in second year university - a huge difference between that and grade 11)


"There is always inequity in life.  Some men are killed in a war and some men are wounded, and some men never leave the country ... It‘s very hard in military or personal life to assure complete equality.  Life is unfair ..."
John F. Kennedy

"A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living." 
-	John F. Kennedy


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## mlabonte

Could anyone tell me how to prepare for this test.  I am not asking you to tell me what is in it, because that would be cheating, but I know some people who failed it and they don‘t know why ( one hade a 90% average .)  This test is very important and if you fail it, you have to wait 1 year to take it again.  Is the examples that the recruiting site give on the CFAT are representitive of the test?  I found IQ  tests on the internet and I am doing them but I don‘t think this will help me prepare for the test.

thank you for your help


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## Pikache

You should have got an example pamphlet of CFAT if you picked up a folder with bunch of info on it.

If not, you should get one, just to get an idea of it.

It‘s not hard.


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## mlabonte

Thanks for your reply.  What is in this pamphlet?  Should of my recruiter given me one?  Is the test the same for all applicants?

thanks again


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## Pikache

The pamphlet has examples of the questions found in the test of Verbal Skills (ie What is opposite of tight?) Spatial Ability (what shape would this pattern form if folded) and Problem Solving (What‘s next in the sequence 2,4,6,8...).

And you should ask your recruiter for one. It‘ll give you an idea of what to expect.

The test is same for all applicats.


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## mlabonte

Oh that thing!  I have that pamphlet and they are really easy lol.  I heard that the test does not have these kind of questions, but harder ones.  Ah well, mabye I am being too hard on myself    

thanks for your patience and your reply!

mlabonte


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## Se7eN

Hello,
        Just wondering what I can study to help me get a better score on the CFAT. Are there any books or manuals that i can use to help me?

thanks,
              JH


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## Korus

From what I hear you can‘t do much to improve your spatial ability; you‘re born with it, so either you got it or you don‘t....


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## FredDaHead

Actually I read somewhere (can‘t recall exactly where tho) that playing sports like hockey, basketball and such helps with spatial ability.

But it works on long-term, so if you‘re going for the test soon, there‘s nothing you can do, as far as I know.

Just random bit of info


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## Se7eN

really... well I play sports, but the questions about the boxes and the patterns on the boxes mess me up for some reason. If there are any books you could suggest that would be a great help.

thanks anyways
jh


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## Christopher

After a long wait, I‘m finally scheduled for my CFAT and interview.

What should I expect in the CFAT? Is it tough? Easy? I was never very good at calculations without a calculator, so will I need to brush up on multiplying decimals? Long division? Fractions?


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## Bringer

www.military.com has a quicky practice test for the ASVAB (American standardized test for their armed forces) which has got to be somewhat similar to the CFAT. There are only so many different ways to do these kind of things...

I‘m curious though, you mention a long wait to have your CFAT and interview scheduled. I went in last week to ask some questions and pick up an application packet, filled out the application and dropped it off, and had my physical fitness, CFAT, and interview all scheduled for just a week later. Is that unusually fast?


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## Etown

> I went in last week to ask some questions and pick up an application packet, filled out the application and dropped it off, and had my physical fitness, CFAT, and interview all scheduled for just a week later. Is that unusually fast?


Hells yeah! It took 4 weeks for me to get a call just to schedule my tests and that was pretty fast.


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## Bert

I used this link and the associated tests for CFAT practicing.  

 http://www.jobs.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm 

The CFAT testing isn‘t so bad but its nice to prepare for that kind of test. I‘d recommend doing the government online sample tests and get practiced up. 

A trick to the CFAT is judging your time and doing what you can in the time alloted.  Use the time they suggest for each test.  See where you lost time and don‘t waste time on questions you cannot answer.  Do them when the questions you can answer are done.

After the alloted time and the test, check your score.  If you notice you had problems with a particular type of problem, like percentages or fractions, you‘ll know where you‘ll need to focus and improve.  The government on-line samples give a good overview of aptitude testing.

Another tip is to RELAX during the test. 

Good luck.


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## Joel85

They specifically tell you before you write the test to "NEVER DISCUSS THE TEST WITH ANYBODY WHO WASN‘T IN THE ROOM WHEN YOU WRITE THE TEST", so you wont get speficics on the test.


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## Deleted member 585

While some questions are hard, you‘d have to be comatose to be disqualified.  I wrote it a couple weeks ago, and qualified for "everything" -- and I‘m no rocket scientist.  Don‘t sweat it.  There are more important things to focus on.

Just get at least 8 hours of sleep the night before you write the CFAT and you‘ll be fine.

Cheers!


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## clinton_84

Can anyone tell me what score youd need on the CFAT to get into the infantry? I heard that they go by the results of the test, rather than by the level of traditional education like highschool(presuming you have the minimum 15 credits) does anyone know if that is true? say for the infantry if I applied with only the 15 credits(im still in school) but did well on the CFAT and the PT what would you say my chances of getting in are? thanks for the info


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## clinton_84

Can anyone tell me what score youd need on the CFAT to get into the infantry? I heard that they go by the results of the test, rather than by the level of traditional education like highschool(presuming you have the minimum 15 credits) does anyone know if that is true? say for the infantry if I applied with only the 15 credits(im still in school) but did well on the CFAT and the PT what would you say my chances of getting in are? thanks for the info


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## Thaedes

That I‘d imagine really depends.  There is a lot of uncertainty there obviously, because we don‘t exactly know what it is the military is looking for.  But like anything else, preference for greater education is always given.  So say if you did 10% better on the PT test then another guy, and you both did well enough on CFAT and they only wanted one guy they‘d still likely pick the other guy if he had better education.


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## newfoundlander

Would I be able to do my CFAT now at the age of 16 so when i graduates next year i will be able to go right on in to the forces? Please Reply A.S.A.P O yeah i am joining the infantry


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## Thaedes

I doubt it, besides, you may as well wait until you turn 17 anyways, every day you learn something new so you might even achieve a better CFAT as a result of holding out.  

Another option for you however, is to apply now, do your CFAT and PT test and by the time you get to swear in you likely be graduating.  Just have your parents sign for you at the recruiting office.  The process only takes 2 to 4 months, so you may as well wait till second semester starts of your final year.  And spend the time between now and then preparing for it.  Work on your fitness, work on your grades, just give it 110%


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## newfoundlander

So Thaedes Your saying that i cant do my CFAT,App test and interview now even tho im in grade 11 finished in one week and will be turning 17 in october? I wants to know if I can get all of this out of the way so i can have it done so when i finishes high school i can go dtraight to basic. By the way thak you Thaedes fro the information you have already provided for me.


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## Thaedes

Sorry I hadn‘t responded anytime recently, didn‘t see this posting.



> So Thaedes Your saying that i cant do my CFAT,App test and interview now even tho im in grade 11 finished in one week and will be turning 17 in october? I wants to know if I can get all of this out of the way so i can have it done so when i finishes high school i can go dtraight to basic. By the way thak you Thaedes fro the information you have already provided for me.


I‘d highly recommend against it.  You can still write your CFAT, get the medical done, the PT test done, and have your interview done before you graduate though.  

Go into your nearest recruiting centre when you turn 17 (or late October), and pick up the application.  Fill it out, get your parents help if you need any, make sure to get some good references, and then drop it off.  About 2 weeks later (At most) you‘ll get a phone call, they‘ll schedule your CFAT.  Get plenty of rest before going in.  They‘ll likely give you your medical right afterwards, then schedule you for the PT test.  Then the interview.  Of course, there is no real set order, other then CFAT first.  Once your done there they‘ll send all the info from you out to Ottawa, and they‘ll review your stuff and see if they want to hire you.  Thats generally a 2 to 4 month process.  Which will be made longer since it will extend over the Christmas period.  You‘ll probably get a call sometime during your second semester, and they‘ll ask if you would like a job with the Canadian Forces.  At the point you can say yes or no.  You‘ll probably finish school sometime during June, and Basic training will begin sometime mid to late June.

Don‘t be concerned about talking to the recruiters and the forces.  Make certain your not scheduled for a Basic before your school year is out, the grade 12 is a must have.

Good luck man.


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## newfoundlander

What are th lowest you can get on the cfat in order to get into the infantry?


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## Thaedes

I wouldn‘t worry about it.  It‘s pretty well really **** hard to screw up getting into the infantry.  Unfortunately, they aren‘t looking so much for brains to fill the position.  Its one of those things that increases the social stereotypes against the army, and those people who are in the infantry.  They think we are all just a bunch of dumb jocks who could barely graduate high school. 

While its true i am struggling to graduate from high school.  It isn‘t for lack of intelligence.  Its for lack of motivation.  Its not that I don‘t understand the ciricullum, its that I don‘t have the motivation or the interest to go home and do the work.  Which is one reason why I look forward to joining the infantry.  Your home is the military, your job is your life.  No escape.  Forces you to confront your short commings, so I‘ll be forced to learn self-discipline, among other things.


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## WINDWOLF

Thaedes,no critisim,(?) but try the discipline
thing now.You do not want to be doing GED
@ 35.Trust me on this.As you can tell by the spelling mistakes.   

newfoundlander don,t aim low.Get the best you can
then chose 031.It looks better on your record
to score high.Getting the good course is a little
easier and you will be competeing on merit with
others who may have scored high.


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## MikeM

How have you been practicing? The only thing I‘ve tried is the practice questions on the recruiting site, besides that there isnt much else you can practice with... but if you know a way, by all means please elaborate.


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## Bert

Mike

Try out this link.  Good practice tests here:

 http://www.jobs.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm


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## Thaedes

Bert nailed it.  Thats the one.  I just a friend of mine to write up similiar things using the various examples.  He then sends me the small test and I complete it as fast as I can and as accurately as I can.

If you can‘t do that, then at least read that site thoroughly, its great.


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## Bert

Gov sample tests>>
I‘d suggest doing ALL of the tests one or two times and try to do it in the time they specify. This helps time management.  The tests provide a good overall of stuff so if you‘re having difficulty with one type of problem, you know where to focus, figure it out, and prepare. The correct answers are provided.


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## Sundborg

A good way to practice for the CFAT is to take IQ tests that are on the internet, they seem to do the trick.


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## timbit

I tried the one at the High IQ society site and scored 122, 4 points off being a genius LOL, if only that was true. you can always count on the internet to cheer you up


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## wannabe-infantry-guy

I just did my cfat and the practice questions they have on the army site are dead easy compared to the real thing. Doing the IQ tests on the internet is the best way to prepare.


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## meni0n

The hardest part I found for me was the 2nd one with the spacial crap. I didn‘t get wtf it all meant. But I still got enough to get into SigOp. If your english is good and you have good math skills then you‘ll have no problem doing the 1s and 3rd part. Second part depends on the person I guess.


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## Apocalypse

Another good way to practice for the CFAT is to buy a GED book and use that to practice with.
I have Barron‘s how to prepare for the GED high school equivalency exam 4th edition,it cover a good portion of math that is on the CFAT. You want to check this book out at a local book store.


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## Dire

Hello..

I got my CFAT booked in a week.

I havent been the best at tests, specially test that I know that determines my future. 

When I took my MCSE it took me 2 test to pass my first one just because I was so nervous my brain froze and I couldnt think of the answers.

I know I shouldnt have any problems but its been 3 years since I‘ve done highschool math.. And I heard that is on the CFAT..

So whats basicly on it?? I know there is the shapes, grammer, and math, but what type of questions? Are they hard?

Im mostly looking for the math questions.. You dont have to divide 45 divided by 137.335 or anything like that do you? heheh 

A PM will help me.

Thank you very much


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## nuforc

know your basic math like 8/3 * 5/8 and 4/3 / 9/8,
just an example, also know your geometry ex:how to calculate the area of a rectangle and so forth,
basic math and geometry,also make sure you take the test in the language you are most confortable in
good luck ,stay calm and focused


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## Dire

so your saying there is questions like


Divide 1/4 with 3/6 stuff like that?


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## OpFor

I was on the recruiting page, and they have examples of aptitude tests and stuff there. I found that the ones ther where pretty easy, but who knows, the real deal might be alot more difficult.


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## Dire

yeah the questions on that page are super easy..

Those have to be the easy ones..

there is 15 verbal which you gotta do in 5 mins

15 Spatial which you got 10 mins and

30 problem solving which you get 30 mins...


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## D-n-A

the CFAT test is a lot more difficult then the example test

just know your math, if I remember correctly, there‘s a fair bit of division and multiplication questions

the Spatial part, is you look at a box that‘s unfolded, an you have to guess what it would look like when it‘s folded back up

then the english part is mostly, a word is givin, and you have to pick the right defination? 


just take your time, dont rush it, an use the paper they give you to work out the math problems


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## Dire

what type of math questions??


are they really hard? Like long division and **** like that?

or are they like.. whats 5x8? or 6 divided by 3


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## Korus

This question has been asked before, and a link for an example CFAT was posted.

You have to remember, however, that we signed agreements when we wrote our CFATs stating that we will not discuss specifics regarding what was on the exam with anyone....


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## austin

i got my cfat 2 comin up and i took the tests on some links from other threads and i didn‘t fare as well as i‘d like    even took the asvac from the U.S. page 2..i‘m gonna be borrowing a friend‘s math book just to touch up as i am lost on my long division..i read on the pamphlet though that they don‘t penalize you for wrong answers...wonder what that‘s about..   :fifty:


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## Dire

Well for the solving problems part of the CFAT is gonna be tough..

You have 30 questions in 30 mins.. So thats a min a question.. I don‘t think there is long division on the test since it takes an average person more then 1 min to work it out..


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## kurokaze

1 min per question is ALOT of time.

Believe me.  Later on during basic and your
subsequent courses is when you‘ll really 
appreciate the value of a minute (even seconds)

But I digress, the CFAT is not hard.
Stay calm and answer the questions that you
can immediately figure out.  That‘ll give you
more time to do the ones you have problems
with.


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## dano

Well I called the recruiting office today and tould them I wanted to re-apply to the reserves. they asked me to bring in all my info again. I tould them that I had tryed the previous year and that all my info should still be on the computer and sure enough it is! so i have to go down to the office and get my files transfured from Hamilton and update any info. I‘m praying i‘ll do better with the CFAT this time! and if not I know now that I still have roads to go till i can retry. Also what in a case where somone keeps failing the CFAT, but they still come each chance and show great intrest, do they look at it in a negative way or a positive way?


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## Mat-V

I dont think it‘s negative. Of course im not in their boots so it‘s pure speculation but if you use common sense it only show how bad you want to join the CF. If you mention how hard you‘ve been trying to join and all the obsatcles you faced to the officer in your interview it will be positive for sure. The interview is where you show how motivated and how bad you want to join.


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## Cycophant

Not to mention the fact that with each attempt on the CFAT, you should be learning from your mistakes, if possible.

Then again, when I took it, they certainly didn‘t give it back and tell you where you blew it.  But at least you know _what_ to "study" on.


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## clinton_84

they dont tell you your score,i did the CFAT just over a week ago all they tell you is whether you passed or failed and what trades your eligible for
they told me i passed i didnt argue with it


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## kurokaze

You can get your score through the Access to 
Information Act.  Of course, I never considered
it worth $5 to get my score.  A pass is a pass
after all.


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## donkon

The ending of my college course is in the end of April, i was wondering when i should apply so that i have a chance to get into the army asap after i finish my school. Should i apply now? or around march? Thx


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## McInnes

a lot of ppl ask this ... go to the recruiting centre and talk to them, they will know when the test dates are and give you a time frame for your area, MOC, etc. 
they can also hold your file, so you can do all your tests asap and they will just hold your file. just go and talk to them.


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## donkon

how long do they hold the file?


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## donkon

Hey if u fail the app test how long does it take before u can retake it? I heard 1 year?? WTF?!?


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## spacelord

I‘d suggest doing it as soon as possible. It will take longer than you think. you need to submit transcripts from highschool and university, letters of reference, your birth certificate and SIN. you might be able to do all the tests and interviews on the same day, but I had to wait about 2 weeks between the test and the interview.


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## McInnes

recruiting centre-->ask ask ask
I don‘t know how long they will hold it, they held mine for two months.


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## donkon

well i have 4 months before i can join so..


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## Ex-Dragoon

How can you fail an appitude test? There is always at least one job you can do in the CF no one is that useless.


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## Benoit

listen hear ****head I failed the app test and I applied for the infantry. 9 people went in to do the test and only 3 passed. By no means am I useless      :threat:


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## Ex-Dragoon

Seems I struck a nerve, the purpose of an aptitude test is to see what you are suited for there is no pass or fail. You might not be suited for what you want but what do I know, I was only in TD‘d to recruiting for 6 months while on category.


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## Bert

The aptitude test measures your ability in math, vocabulary, spacial recognition, problem solving within a time limit.  If a candidate isn‘t prepared, the test can be intimidating.

I suggest practicing with sample exams 
(  http://www.jobs.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm  )using the time limit and assessing where your problems will be.  If you can do the tests in the time limit (or close enough) to what they recommend and can complete most of the questions, you‘re sure to be ready for the CFAT.


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## donkon

Ok my weakness is math, but those questions i did on the site are easy as **** . I heard there are more categories than they show on the site. Can anyone tell me the categories that will be on it? Thx

Also say i apply for JTF2 in 4 years will they check my results from app test?


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## Benoit

Hello Guys I Need a little bit of help here.  Im heading in to do my app test soon I need a few pointers on how to do well on the cfat. By the way I am applying to the infantry. Also how hard is it to pass the cfat? Or qualify for the infantry I should say. And also when is the next reg for basic starting? thanks alot.


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## winchable

The CFAT‘s not really something you can study for, you can only practice it, come to think of it I guess there‘s not much of a difference between the two. 
The best practice I was able to find was an Online IQ test, which is what the CFAT seems like. It‘s not hard to find an IQ test online either...pretty much all you have to do is go to Google and type in "IQ test."
Other then that the only advice I would have is to get a good nights rest, eat a good breakfast, blah blah blah etc. etc. Pretty common stuff.


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## Sh0rtbUs

I wouldnt worry about it, since its mostly common sense questions. Remember, its an APTITUDE test, used by the CF to determine which type of learner you are (in most cases). Che pretty much hit the nail on the head, show up rested and alert and you‘ll do fine. Only pointer i could give, is make sure to read the questions carefully, and dont rush because your given more than enough time to do it.


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## girlfiredup

I‘m writing my CFAT on Tues morning and was wondering if the results determine if you are suitable for the trade you selected?  I‘m going reserve and chose SigOp.  I was told that I would have to score high on the math and unfortunately, I suck at math.  Well not completely but the problem solving and number sequences always seem to get me.  So lets say I don‘t score high on the math, does that mean I will have to choose another trade?  I‘ve been doing lots of different IQ tests on line to practice but you either have it or you don‘t.  I‘m nervous and if anyone can offer any suggestions or what to expect, I‘d really appreciate it.  Thanks.


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## Alex

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm 

That‘s a good test to practice with. It may seem difficult, but I think the CFAT is a bit easier. I haven‘t done it though, so dont quote me on that.

I think if your CFAT results don‘t match the requirements for your trade, you can either take it again or they give you your second or third choice of trade.


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## Doobie

Depending on your scores the CFAT will determine if you are eligibility for the trades you selected.  As with any other tests make sure you are fully rested prior to writing the CFAT, this will improve your chances of getting a better score.  The policy on re-writes is rather complex and will be explained to you if you do not meet the cut-off scores for you occupation selections.  Practicing similar tests as you have been doing is good.  Keep it up and good luck on Tue.


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## GrahamD

Just a thought, but generally apptitude tests measure the most basic elements of any given skill set, ie math, reading comprehension, sciences, etc.

If a trade requires that you are strong in math, and you aren‘t, then pursuing that trade may ultimately be setting yourself up for a very difficult time.  Things are going to move very quickly when you get to your MOC training, and (this is just my opinion)I personaly wouldn‘t want to find myself dealing with the frusteration of always feeling a step behind coupled with the fact that I was still trying to adjust to military life.

Showing up to your first day of SigOp training weak in the area of math, is no different than showing up to your first day of Infantry training weak in the area of fitness.  It‘s going to be hard enough on the prepared.

I would suggest that if you really want to pursue that trade, or any other math heavy trade, that you spend some time upgrading your math at school or nightschool.  Obviously there isn‘t any time to do that before you take your apptitude test, but if you should be qualified for SigOp after you do take it, then that would be my suggestion for the time that you are waiting for the rest of your application to move forward.

As I said, just a thought.

Good luck on your apptitude test!


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## Gryphon

believe me.. you don‘t need all that strong math to get into the trade.. it‘s good to have, but you‘ll also always have a pencil and paper in the back of your pod to do calculations


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## girlfiredup

I just got back from doing my CFAT and I didn‘t score high enough in the math section, therefore, I do not qualify for the SigOp trade.     I am a little disappointed but not entirely.  I am sure I can do the job but maybe it is just not the right trade for me afterall.  My 2nd and 3rd choices are available though (yes, these are my selections..hehe..RMC and SuppTech). 

Right now I‘m not sure what I‘m going to do.  I really wanted SigOp because of the field work.  I don‘t want to be stuck behind a desk.  Been doing that for well over 4 years now.

I may brush up on my math and re-write the test in 3 months or I may consider going in as a SuppTech.  I could be in basic by the summer.

They did reimburse me $50 for my mileage though.  That was real sweet!   

Thanks again everyone.


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## Benoit

I was just woundering what the policy was on re-writing the CFAT


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## venero

I think you have to waite 3 months to reatake it. If you do not get a passing score the you can‘t retake it unless you have a good reason why you should be able to retake it, Like if you went and took some turtoring or went back to school.


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## girlfiredup

Re-writing the CFAT does not always mean you failed.. at least in my situation it doesn‘t.  I chose to re-write because I didn‘t score high enough on the math component for the trade that I want.  I could have taken my 2nd or 3rd choice but I really want SigOp.  Anyone know why they make you wait 3 months to re-write.  That‘s a good thing for me.  It will give me time to brush up on the algebra.    

When you retest, those marks will over-write your previous marks and you can not re-write after that.  No 3rd chances.

Benoit, what is your situation?


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## patt

how many pages is the CFAT?


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## girlfiredup

Patty, the CFAT is done on a computer.  No writing involved.. just the click of a mouse.  You‘ll be given headphones so you can listen and watch a CF personnel explain the instructions to each section of the test.  I think the test has 50 or 55 questions. I forget now.  The math section contains the most questions (30) and you only have 30 min to complete it.


----------



## JasonH

How much do I hafto worry bout when it comes to passing to be Infantry..

This wannabe grunt isn‘t too smart when it comes to my education (9-10-11 and no 12) has been ****.  So this is gonna be a little complex to say the least since I missed a lot of school over the past 3 years due to Illness or surgery (2 surgeries just last year).


----------



## girlfiredup

Jay, look at Alex‘s post above and click on the link... its a practice test and a good example of what to expect on the CFAT.  I‘m not sure what percentage range you have to score for the infantry but if you give the CF offices a call they‘ll be able to tell you.  All the best.


----------



## Benoit

First of all I did fail the CFAT, and second of all you get 60 mins to do 60 questions which were all done on paper. Also I thought you could re-write the CFAT as many times as you want. I just hope I qualify this time it would be a big load took of my shoulders, any Ideas on how i could brush up on my Vocab? God some of them words looked like another language. I will do better next time. Hopefully


----------



## Michael OLeary

The best way to build vocabulary is to read, read, read; in broad subject areas, and always keep a dictionary handy to check unfamiliar words.

You may also want to check out something like this:

Reader‘s Digest Word Power Quiz Book 

(But there‘s no guarantee it will include the words you meet on the CFAT.)

Mike


----------



## Greywolf

I did mine with pen and paper too and yes, they did say we are not supposed to give out specific information about the test (i.e. the questions that are on there).


----------



## FutureTroopie

Any advice on what to study, I to will be writing it shortly. Im going infantry, is there a certain area I should focus on during the test? lol basically what do I have to do to qualify for Infantry combat arms??


----------



## Yllw_Ninja

Trust me you don‘t have to do too well if you want Infantry...when i did my test they said i did "Fine" 

Heres a link to a site that has a whole bunch of links to Aptitude tests...it even rates em   

  http://www.geocities.com/career_personality_test/  

>second column down has got all of em


----------



## casing

Yes, that dolt would be me.   I was scheduled for a CFAT this past Tuesday.   Of course, I somehow got the dates mixed up and was a no-show. Ended up getting a call from a very disapointed sounding Cpl late yesterday.   Voice mail so I still have to call her back and confess to being a dolt.   Great start to the application process.   Try not to follow my example everyone.

Dolt out.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

I wouldn‘t be too discouraged; it‘s not like you‘re the first one.  Keep showing an interest, and don‘t let this happen again, you‘ll be fine.


----------



## winchable

Look on the brightside,
You will never, ever ever ever be late for anything again throughout your whole career thanks to that one mistake that will stick out in your mind.

Also, try "stick-it" notes, 
stick em on the side of your monitor and you won‘t forget stuff as much.


----------



## Pikache

Timings, timings, timings.
The most important thing a troop must learn to meet.


----------



## CF_MacAulay

hey jay...infantry dont need high math or...well anything..the spacial test (lol like putting together building blocks and stuff) has a bit to do about it...and being bale to count from 1-30 (mag rounds) and stuff like that...i passed it first time...im in grade 11 and got a 62 in math...foundations..and i did it...so you should be fine...but call the recruit offices ne ways..they always know best..bt you might wait a week and a half for a simple anwser..they are alittle...short-handed there..lol.."hurry up and Wait"!


----------



## Paul F

For infantry, I believe you need one of the lowest scores in comparison to all other MOCs. I think it‘s down near Cook, and Steward, but don‘t quote me on that one.

Besides, the minimum education for infantry is grade 10, so therefore the score for infantry has to low enough for someone with a grade 10 education to get.


----------



## Da_man

you can get 100% on your CFAT with a 10th grade and a little logic.


----------



## patt

right now im studying my *** off to do the test and i was woundering whats the score to become an armoured crewman? im seriously lookin into this occupation


----------



## Franko

Don‘t fret Patty...you‘ll do fine. The test is just made to see if you have some skills.

CF MacAulay...I‘m sure they have some room for you in the infantry, you don‘t need grade 12 math to know how to dig a hole   

Regards


----------



## AlphaCharlie

Minimum you need is 18/60 LOL.

I scored 38 I believe. My "available trades" was like 2 pages long.


----------



## Dan Gerous

You will do fine.  I qualified for everything with a grade 10 education.  Just make sure you answer all the questions.  I forgot to answer a few, just skipped over them and forgot to go back.  But I still passed everything.  Piece of cake.


----------



## Burnsy

Does anyone know what the minimum mark on the CFAT is, concerning officer positions?


----------



## dano

Minimum is 20. I scored 11.

Year before that was a 7 I think, they never told me.

I did worse on the math section.


----------



## jutes85

Just to be on the right track, we are talking about the Aptidute tests during reqruitment, right?

Anyways, after the CFAT I had my interview and the guy told me I scored a perfect score on my Math, but the English part was around 80%, probably because I was not born in Canada. 

However, I did not recieve a list of trades I was qualified for, probably did not matter though    .

Best advise I can give from experience is take your time and skip the questions you have trouble with and return later. It is not the hardest test in the world and anyone with atleast a grade 10 education and some concentration can pass it.


----------



## pingu

got my cfat tomorow morning..was wondering, i take it there are to calculators allowed? i know im gonna bomb the math part of it..ive been looking over some basic math just to get the feel...

  :evil:


----------



## ErorZ

You are only allowed pen and paper... nothing else, Good luck for tomorrow!


----------



## Ipsofacto

As a recent applicant to the CAF, I‘d like to say how pleased I am to be a part of this little fraternity of hopefuls on ARMY.CA.   

CFAT: what pearls of wisdom can you dispense regarding this thing?  I‘ve seen suggestions to tackle the  Graduate Recruitment Test as a means of preparation, but is this an accurate representation of what to expect when sitting for the CFAT?  ‘Graduate‘ implies something other than high school, to my way of thinking, and I thought that the minimum criteria for the CAF was grade 10.  Is there a humane way to prepare for CAFT apart from the practice GRT?


----------



## D-n-A

practice your math and english skills I guess


----------



## bossi

Well, it really wouldn‘t be an accurate test of YOUR aptitude if we coached you, would it ... ?

If you are still in school, you should still be in good shape when it comes to writing tests of any sort.  And, you‘re right - the level of questions is geared towards the level of the traditional applicants (that‘s why the test can be more difficult for people who apply after they‘ve been out of school for a couple of years - they‘ve forgotten how to write tests or examinations ...)

Just for fun, you could look at some sample questions from a variety of sources - Law School Admission Test (LSAT), GMAT, or any other package that‘s readily available at the bookstore or school guidance counsellor (after all, you‘re just looking for some questions to keep your skills sharp, right?)

Once upon a time when I was in high school, there was a mathematics competition - our school even had a math club - you might find some similar material in your school.

Good luck - do your best - that‘s all anybody expects of you.


----------



## Exodeus

I wouldn‘t worry about the CFAT...Get a good night‘s rest and a large cup of Timmy‘s right before the test and you‘ll do fine! Just keep your mind open! Remember that it‘s not a test on what you know...it‘s your ability to learn!


----------



## Trey

I would for sure brush up on basic math skills, ala, dealing with fractions, multiplying/dividing by hand, ect. Easy stuff, but sometimes we rely on calculators too much, eh?

As for the English bit, I wouldn‘t sweat it. For things like that, you either know it or you don‘t; no sense worrying about it.


----------



## ringo_mountbatten

I think whomever told you to see use the GRT as a guide mark might be more than a little off.  The CFAT doesn‘t for the most part have anything on it that is beyond grade 10 subject matter.  The best pre-test stuff is what is on the public works website.


----------



## venero

Don‘t forget to fill In every question, I think that helped me a lot. I looked at the GRT to practice and I don‘t think that it is even close to what the CFAT was like.


----------



## AlphaCharlie

For infantry you need to score 18/60...   

a little off topic, but what exactly is SigOp? I see everyone and their grandmothers trying to get into that trade.....


----------



## GrahamD

> Originally posted by RJG:
> [qb] The thing with the CFAT is that it is highly impractical, the vocabulary test is of words that nobody uses. The best way to answer them is to look at the type of word, for instance the word agressive, if you didn‘t know what it meant, you could guess on the very grounds that it sounds like anger. Ofcourse all the words you won‘t be able to guess that way, but try and see if there is any indications in even the spelling of the word.
> 
> For the Mathematical part, the best thing i found was to use a system of elimination. Eliminate the impossible and what you are left with, however improbable, must be the right answer. (I heard that somewhere, not sure where though.) So if you have a question for instance, what would $15,678.00 come to with taxes, you know right away its going to be above 17,000. and less than $19,000.
> 
> Skip answers you don‘t know and go back, try and eliminate some answers if possible. [/qb]


Saying that the pronounciation or spelling of a word should indicate its meaning is ludicrous.  Unless you‘re talking about knowing the latin roots of the English language, you can‘t really problem solve a word.  You might as well fill in the multiple choice A/C/D/C/A/C/D/C.  Because you will get a similar result.

The math results will not be "improbable" they will be the precise answer to the question asked.  The best way to solve the problem is to use the correct mathmatical formula for the problem.
If you don‘t know the formula for the question you are looking at you should skip it until you find a question you know.  Then if you have time left over you can take some wild guesses at, or work through, the ones you skipped.

It‘s difficult to prepare for spacial ability outside of looking into some geometry text books.
The problems get pretty whacky though and you either know how to solve them or you don‘t.

As mentioned in the fitness forum, if you‘re struggling with the admission requirements, you‘re setting yourself up for a hard time. The CFAT was VERY easy, if you struggle to succeed at basic highschool (and elementray school) formulas and vocabulary while in the cozy environment of a CFRC after a good nights sleep with a minimum of pressure, I cringe to think of what will happen when you need to make some calculations in the field while people are firing automatic weapons at you.


----------



## CWeb26F

Graham, why are you saying that the spelling of a word can‘t be used to figure out what it means? For example, someone once posted somewhere that one of the words on the test was ‘Sequacious.‘ Now, I didn‘t know exactly what that meant, but hey, it sounds like, and is spelled like, ‘Sequence‘ is it not? If something is in a sequence, one thing follows another. Therefore, I deduced, ‘Sequacious‘ must have something to do with following. And hey, just checked Dictionary.com, and I‘m right.

The example used was maybe not the greatest, however. ‘Anger‘ is from the Old Norse root ‘angr-‘ while aggresive is ultimately from the Latin ‘aggressio.‘ Not the same word at all. However, no harm in using a word you DO know that sounds like/ is spelled like a test word you DON‘T know is there? Unless you‘re running out of time.


----------



## bossi

Etymology is extremely useful - U of Toronto even offers a course called "Greek and Latin in Scientific Terminology"!  (and, no - don‘t confuse the origin of words with "entomology" - the study of insects ... although ... on some missions, you do run into some bugs ... chuckle!)

Etymology is also useful in the context of linguistics, and learning languages - as suggested earlier, you can make educated guesses about the meaning of words (which comes in REALLY handy when it‘s not your native language).

entomology - 1766, from Fr. entomologie (1764), coined from Gk. entomon "insect" + logia "study of." Entomon is neut. of entomos "having a notch or cut (at the waist)," so called by Aristotle in reference to the segmented division of insect bodies, from en- "in" + temnein "to cut." Compare insect. 

Wow - visiting  www.etymonline.com there‘s even a link for US Army careers in entomology!

US Army recruiting (related to entomology!)


----------



## Michael OLeary

> Being able to bang out mathematical equations in a minute is no indication of how one will react while bullets are flying past your head.


Unless, of course, it‘s your job to make complex decisions under stress while being under assault: like making computations to develop gun data (mortar and gun position officers and NCOs), calculate the corrections to direct artillery fire (FOOs or other combat arms officers or NCOs), or direct the immediate tactical tasks of diverse combat organizations with various weapon systems (commanders at all levels, sect to brigade, in all trades on the potentially complex modern battlefield). 

Not all expected reactions to incoming fire are simple reflexes. When it counts, soldiers do need the capacity for quick and accurate problem-solving, the CFAT is a very basic indication of mental agility and ability.


----------



## koach

The E-CFAT was introduced just recently and all centres have not yet been outfitted with the system.

With regards to the actual test, applicant are not permitted to discuss the contents of the test outside of the testing room.

The only part of the test that you could actually study for is math.


----------



## MP1

Needing to find out info on CFAT scoring for trade 811...Yes MP. Can anyone offer info?

"A COWARD DIES A THOUSAND DEATHS, A SOLDIER DIES BUT ONCE"


----------



## MikeM

Infantry would be combat arms, which he mentioned. Therefore yes, it is the same as infantry     I have also heard the same thing as I was looking into MP, but I‘m going infantry.


----------



## RJG

You have to go to a the actual regiment you are applying for, you can‘t just go and apply at your local recruiting center. You need permission.


----------



## soon to be infantry

If hes going Reserves yes, thats right RJG, but if he is going Regular force, he would apply at CFRC just like any other trade. And also, Im sure you know if you have looked into being an MP, you need a 2 year diploma in criminology or criminal justice. The test is the least of your problems, the process for becomming an MP is the same or similar to any other major police force in Canada, which im sure you know is very competitive.


----------



## MikeM

Or police foundations.


----------



## dwyer.sd

The test score measures your apptitude, a pass is 18 but you will not make infantry.  The higher you score the more apptitude you possess and the more competative your file will be.  All applicants to the RegF or PRes will be processed at the Recruiting Ctrs.  RegF also have to attend a selection Board where you will be comepeting with other applicants for the same positions.  If you are planning on taking a 2 yr diploma in criminology, ensure that you go to a Ctr and check out what schools are acceptable and what course profile is listed.  Not just any diploma from any school will cut it.  There are currently no diploma programs in Manitoba that qualify.


----------



## rdschultz

heheh.

You can‘t really prepare for the CFAT, at least not much.  Brush up on your basic math maybe, if you normally have trouble with that.  Spatial and verbal stuff you‘re either good at, or you aren‘t.  They can be improved, but not in a weekend.  Maybe find some sample questions.

Best advice:  get a good sleep the night before, and go in relaxed.  The CFAT is not by any means difficult, so don‘t get too worked up over it.


----------



## koach

Have any of you been told what your test scores are?


----------



## greymatter

im really nervous, i have my test in 5 days, is it something i could study for or is it just commen sence?


----------



## buffboyali

when you guys were writing the test was there other people there with you guys or just one person writing it and the admins watching you?


----------



## RJG

When I did mine there were around 25 guys in a room filled with computers and we had an extremely detailed outline on what we were to do.

I thought that the english part was harder than the math as one or two quiestions asked the meaning of words I had never heard before. 

The math part is very easy, but make sure leave enough time to go over your answers.

It is all common sense. In all earnesty I agree with MP1 my little sister could also get 18, and she is only 8. Some questions depict an unfolded shape and you have to pick, out of four, which one it would be when folded.


----------



## Thompson_JM

the CFAT stands for (obviously...) Canadian Forces Aptitude Test..


its not really all that different from any other GAT-B style aptitude test.

For the most part either you get it, or you dont.


----------



## Baskin

math,can anyone possibly tell me what type of math i should refresh myself with.
I write the cfat tes May 4. and i‘ve never been good with math so im a little worried
any help with be greatly appreciated.
thanks again.


----------



## Baskin

one more question, i can‘t decide between artillery or infantry, i would really like to travel and learn alot of different things along the way, which one would be better?
im only 17 so, im rather still very little
which would be easyier?


----------



## Chalcey

Its an aptitude test so its something you really cant study for, one tip is to refresh yourself on dividing and multiplying fractions.


----------



## nbk

No calculator on the CFAT right?


----------



## Tyrnagog

That‘s right, but you are given scrap paper to do work by hand


----------



## Pieman

Studies show that a person who practices with similar types of questions will perform much better than someone walking in blind. Same reason people practice the GRE exams before writing...you can‘t really study for it because it is impossible to know what will be asked, but you can practice! And that brings the score way way up!

Some links for practice questions were given here.

 http://army.ca/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/16/642#000004


----------



## dano

Piemans right you know, I walked in blind twice...


----------



## Trey

Make sure you can do elementary operations with fractions. Things like adding and multiplying by hand (common divisors). Being able to solve linear equations would also be good, ie., 6x+4=10.


----------



## Pte.Nomercy

With the CFAT make sure you pay attention to what you‘re doing.

Don't rush it! You have plenty of time as the portions of the test, English, math, etc are divided up in 15min to 30 min increments.

I can not emphasize to pay attention to what you‘re writing...if you get a poor score YOU CAN NOT TAKE THE TEST AGAIN UNTILL ONE YEAR LATER TO IMPORVE YOU MARK TO GET MORE MOC‘S!

Usually, for the math, you can look at the question and the answers and just think logically and you‘ll find the right answer.

There is also a shape component to the test that I‘m sure you are aware of, of course you can‘t really study for that.   

Just remember, don't be nervous and to settle down and think logically.

Seeing as how you want infantry or artillery, you should get those MOC‘s no problem. However...artillery is a career that requires math skills due to calculations etc. but you should get the moc‘s you want. 

If you were applying for like pilot, or some sort of medical or technical air force or navy trade and had bad math, well then obviously there would be a problem.

Also if you get your test sheet back and you get none of the jobs you want, you can ask for a wavier, meaning a by-pass sheet that needs to get approved by some one which will read you saying â Å“Please! Please, please let me do that job! I am to smart enough! I really am!â ?

Good luck!


----------



## RJG

Lol pieman, mind sending me the link showing the results of those studies?

And Daniel, assuming you failed twice, how oculd he be right if you walked in blind twice. The first time yea, the second time you had already had practice, yet it made no difference.

Practice will make no difference, if you have a low IQ you will get a low mark. If you have a high IQ you will get a high mark.


----------



## Pte.Nomercy

Intelligere,

I was told that not getting the score you needed and wanting to rewrite the CFAT would take a year, as for thus waver and 3 month wait after...I never heard about that? Is this something new? 

I was told what MOC‘s you get is what you‘re stuck with unless you do it a year later. 

Also a I was told (over 3 years ago) that with a waver you wouldn‘t need to do the test again because they would look at your school marks life experience profile etc. in your application to determine if you got wavered to the MOC you wanted. 

I always understood that writing the CFAT was a once a year deal...rewriting it only 3months later?  

That doesn‘t sound right to me, people would do far better the second time around, I did it years ago and I still remember the questions.


----------



## kbenn

i did it three months later- and yes the second time i passed- but not due to the fact that i remembered questions- but because i studyed really hard and had a better idea of the testing that was done. Some people just are not great at aptitude testing so it takes a second try.


----------



## nbk

I just did my CFAT this morning so its still fresh in my head.

Basically I found everything easy except the math. I don‘t know how much I can say, but it is harder then the little practice test they give you. I passed it no problem, but as I said I had to guess my way through some (a minority) of the math.

The difficulty is comparable to the online tests already linked in the other thread. They help you getting used to doing things quick and in your head.

Just keep your cool, be mindful of the clock. Mine was done on computer which I did not expect. Out of about 12 people 4 or 5 of them failed the CFAT (and about 6 more failed the PT test hehe).

So stay calm and get rest. I had about 4 hours sleep last night, just dont worry about it. If you‘re smart you will pass it.


----------



## dwyer.sd

The re-write policy is simple.  You can write the next day if you really want, but if you failed one day then you will likely fail the next without significant work in the three categories: Language comprehension, problem solving and spacial ability.  The norm is 3 months and some evidence of upgrading before we recommend re-writing.  After that it is out of our hands.

A waiver for a fail will only be considered if it would be financially difficult for the Ctr to justify a re-write.  If CFRC paid 400$ to fly or drive you in for processing and you fell within the 4-7 points either way, then a case would be justified.

Your most recent score is what you get, regardless of pass/fail.  Getting the third writing almost takes an act of parliament, you have got to do some major educational upgrading and manage to convince everyone in the chain of command at the centre that you deserve another chance.  You had better be 100% commited also, cause getting a waiver for someone who withdraws their application or turns down an offer makes it much more difficult for the next applicant.  We do not mind doing the work, but to see hours of prep and substantiation get tossed out like yesterdays lunch is demoralizing.

Congrats on passing, Go Infantry!!!


----------



## dano

> Originally posted by RJG:
> [qb]Daniel, assuming you failed twice, how oculd he be right if you walked in blind twice. The first time yea, the second time you had already had practice, yet it made no difference.
> [/qb]


I waited a year before I took it again.
Oh, and by far it made a diffrence between my first CFAT and my second. It was just still not good enough to get my trade.
Besides, I don‘t have to go through all the troubles transfuring Reserve to Regular. I am going reg force completely now.


----------



## Christopher

I completed the CFAT a long time ago and did well, but due to unforseen circumstances, had to put off the recruitment process for a little while.

I‘m ready to start the process again, but will I need to take the CFAT over? How long is the mark you‘ve received on the CFAT good for?


----------



## koach

There is no expiry date for the aptitude test.


----------



## Goober

Perhaps someone can shed some light on this for me. I've done my CFAT then they told me I'd probably get a call in 4-6 weeks to schedule my physical, medical and interview.

Well that didnt happen yet, and its now been 12 weeks. So my question is, where does your file go after you write the CFAT? Does it go to Bordon? Or does it stay in the recruitment center for them to research or something?

I call them every week on tuesday, the answer is always the same, "no change". I'm getting kinda worried. Does anyone know what exactly is researched inbetween the CFAT and scheduling on your medical, physical etc..?


----------



## casing

When you phone them every week what do you actually ask them?  Have you mentioned the same thing you have said here?   I would suggest putting the actual phrase you want answered to them: "Has my physical, medical, and interview been scheduled yet? What is holding them up?"

It could be that they are waiting for your security clearance. Hard to say so you need to be more specific and insistent when you query them.


----------



## rdschultz

I'm guessing here, but maybe the Enhanced Reliabilty Check?  Every recruiting centre has different policies it seems, so its a complete guess on my part.  12 weeks sounds like an awful long time for a backlog, especially now that most summer BMQ people should be processed and through the door.   Then again, your CFRC might be very, very busy.  

Just for comparison sake, I did my CFAT, PT, Medical, and Interview all on the same day.  And they were scheduled about 3 weeks after I applied, which was really only about two weeks because my original application was missing some community college transcripts (I was told they weren't required before I handed the application in, was already waiting on them so I applied, and got a different story after the application was handed in. 

Perhaps the next time you call them, ask them the very question you're asking us.  A little "why the hold up?" couldn't hurt.  At best, you'll get your answer, and at worst they'll make up some BS response and not tell you.


----------



## Goober

Wow quick replys thanks! When I call them I pretty much ask the same thing every time, why the hold up, is there a back log, the guy answers (same guy every time, seems like he just wants me off the phone) don't know, not sure. I ask how long does he think it will take, he replies "could take up to a year".

I should go down there tomorrow and talk to the girl who took my application when I handed it in, she seemed a bit more caring.

The recruitment center I goto is the Halifax one, everytime I was down there, there was anywhere from 10-20 people in there, most writting CFATs and talking to the recruiters, I was surprised how many people where signing up. Perhaps they have a back log, I dont know, but I'll find out.


----------



## jarko

Hello,

I am having my CFAT and Physical on August 4th but i am worried that i will fail the math part on the CFAT. I am trying to get in for infantry. My math was always my worst subject in highschool and i would barely pass math courses in highschool. Anyway i forgot everything. I am worried that i will faill the problem solving part of the test. I've been trying to study fractions and percents for a couple days now but i cant catch on.Anyway my question is this. What else is on the CFAT, what passing score on the problem solving part do i have to get? Also i got this GED math book and the problem solving is very hard for me. Also say i fail one test will i be able to do the other test or no?? I really cant afford to fail the CFAT and wait 3 months. I just can't. My personal reasons. Can anyone PM me or tell me what to study for the math part. 

Thanks


----------



## bossdog

I wouldn't worry about the math so much. Basic math should be good enough. I know when I did mine, we were not given our scores. Now, if you were going for a specialist trade or trying for RMC, obviously your academic threshold would need to be stronger.

I have a GED and I studied the book as well. The GED books give you a worse case scenario, the test wasn't nearly as hard as the books made it out to be.

You can also expect questions about mechanics, eye hand coordination and other weird stuff like that. This is an aptitude test, not a final exam in high school or college.

For the most part, all you need to get in the military is a heart beat and the ability to learn. You'll be fine.


----------



## yot

when I did my math test, I think it should be around Grade 10 Math. Not that hard at all... u don't need to caluate graph stuff like that... just simple math..


----------



## johnny_boy

It really wasn't all that bad. I despise math, but I did fine on it from my perspective. Again, they don't give scores but I felt fairly good coming out of it.


----------



## jarko

Will they tell me if i passed or failed the same day??


----------



## Greywolf

Yeah, they'll tell you if you passed or failed about 10 minutes after the exam.  The math is not hard...but you cannot use a calculator.  So you should practice by not using the calculator.  It's mostly basic Math...like Grade 9 math...some addition, multiplication, equations, sequences, percentage (I think...can't quite remember)...and stuff like that.  And for infantry, you don't need a very high score (I heard).


----------



## Bert

If you have time before the 4th, check out this site and practice the sample tests here:

http://www.jobs.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm

Do the tests in the time they suggest.  Practice good time management and do as many questions as
you can without spending too much time on a single question.  If you have difficulty with a type of
questions, get some help or figure it out after.

The trick is not only general knowledge but time management.

Good luck.


----------



## scaddie

Check this out, unless you already have  http://www.jobs.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm


----------



## wackymax

The only portion of the CFAT that I found difficult was some of the vocabulary questions. You have very little time to complete them. I did very well on the test, however, I found that I only knew one of the vocabulary questions 100%. The words are big and bad but kind of give hints to what they are. Honestly, there's no real way to prepare yourself for it. Just make sure you've had a good sleep the night before and a cup of coffee in the morning 

One more peice of advice, know how to add/subtract/multiply and divide simple fractions. eg. 3/4 * 5/2


----------



## Garbageman

Last time I checked, they do make you agree to non-disclosure when you write the CFAT.  Just a word to the wise to be careful when discussing this here, as there are recruiters who look at this site, so you may want to CYA just a bit.


----------



## CF_MacAulay

Hey, The math portion of CFAT is pretty difficult, they try and put these HUGE numbers at you, the thing that i did was just round each number to the nearest whole, and do ti like that, and pick the anwser nearest to what i got, it may not be a good method for you but it worked for me...


----------



## Da_man

CF_MacAulay said:
			
		

> Hey, The math portion of CFAT is pretty difficult, they try and put these HUGE numbers at you, the thing that i did was just round each number to the nearest whole, and do ti like that, and pick the anwser nearest to what i got, it may not be a good method for you but it worked for me...




thats what i didi too.  I finish the whole thing 5 seconds before the end


----------



## scaddie

Yeah that's where I fell hard too, I had 20/30. Remember to do what the other guy said, and round your numbers up or down to the nearest whole, and choose answers like that.


----------



## SEB123

I think everybody did that , you got to be a real genious to find the real answer if you dont round your numbers


----------



## Torlyn

The test is designed to focus what abilities each applicant has, and the most applicable position in accordance to your abilities.  What I found worked well, was the tests online for government employees. (The practice GTC, OST, etc.)    I've taken hoardes of those, and had no problems with the CFAT.

T


----------



## ark

If you need help with math problems drop me a PM with a specific problem(s) and I will try to help you


----------



## DrSize

I am not sure, I think you need to just focus.  I got 30/30 and when I worked it out on the paper I got the exact answer.  I only got 9/15 on the first section though


----------



## skura

Where are those online tests Torlyn...even though I'm taking grade 11 math right now, couldn't hurt to take a look ahead at the kind of questions I'll eventually be looking at.


----------



## AndrewD83

My CFAT experience was quite pleasant, even though I was very nervous about the whole test.  I actually found the Math part to be the easiest (even though math has always been very weak for me for my entire life)  However I practiced on my simple math weeks before my CFAT which really prepared me.  I also did a lot of those Canadian government tests and other online IQ tests which helped a little.


----------



## Torlyn

They don't show the results for several reasons..  One being that the tests are designed by psychologists/psychiatrists, and unless you have similar training, the results will mean nothing to you.  (And by you, I mean all of us potential CF members)  As well, showing you specifically what you did wrong would allow for "cheats" on re-tests...  You wouldn't know the info any better, you'd just select proper answers through trial and error.

For officer testing (DEO) the results themselves are used by the selection board to decide on personal suitability to your requested MOC.  (If you've got better scores than recruit B, you've got a better chance, etc.)

For the NCM positions, the tests are marked and a printout of suitable positions listed.  (At least, that's what I noticed from the 2 NCM hopefulls who passed the test when I wrote)

Also, in Calgary our tests are done on computer (are all centres like this?) so our results are available immediately.  (ie. they tell you right there if you passed or failed, or what potential trades you are eligible for)

As for the online government tests, the following link shows the most frequently administered..  PLEASE keep in mind that it is only my own personal experience that these tests helped.  I believe I did very well on the CFAT, and I know that much of that derives from having practice tests like these under my belt.  As well, I've written the actual tests for the work that I do in the government.  This is just a tool, not a "this WILL be on the CFAT".  Anyway, hope this helps, and if not, fire a PM and I'll see if I can't be more specific.  (To a degree.  We're not allowed to talk about specifics on the test, so don't ask)

T


----------



## SEB123

but the recruiter show it to me, is it normal.


----------



## Torlyn

Did the recruiter show you your actual mark on each three section, or a printout with a list of MOC's?  Were you applying reg or res?

T


----------



## SEB123

He show me my actual mark on each three section, I had 48 overall


----------



## Torlyn

Wow.  Our recruiter informed us that we weren't allowed to know our specific marks...  Did you apply NCM or DEO?

T


----------



## SEB123

ncm and to be deo youneed a mark of 45


----------



## mbhabfan

I haven't written the CFAT yet.  If I did go write it and some occupations were excluded due to my score would I still have to wait a year to rewrite?


----------



## gun plumber

Don't know what trade your applying for but no worries on passing.From what I was told(3 yrs ago )its not marked per say like in school.It has something to do along the lines of national or regional average.When I component Transfered to reg force the only thing the recruiter said to me was "well this tells me your a smart guy"and that was that.I did'nt get to see what trades I qual'd for,just was told that I qual'd for the one I picked.


----------



## Bograt

Mare said:
			
		

> Could anyone tell me how to prepare for this test.   I am not asking you to tell me what is in it, because that would be cheating, but I know some people who failed it and they don't know why ( one hade a 90% average .)   This test is very important and if you fail it, you have to wait 1 year to take it again.   Is the examples that the recruiting site give on the CFAT are representitive of the test?   I found IQ   tests on the internet and I am doing them but I don't think this will help me prepare for the test.
> 
> thank you for your help



I wrote the CFAT 2 years ago.  I spent many afternoons going to the public library and going over sample Public Service exams as well as reviewing GED books. The "Getting your GED" books were very helpful. 

Cheers,


----------



## bluenose_boy

I just had my CFAT, interview, and medical yesterday at CFRC Winnipeg. Here are my observations (for what they are worth ). 

I have heard a lot of stuff about the CFAT ranging from "oh my God it was the hardest thing I have ever seen" to "it's so easy, don't even worry about it." I would suggest the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and the examples you have seen for the questions are FAR easier than the real thing. Take the test seriously, but don't lose sleep over it. If you are applying as an officer, I was told there is a higher standard, so it's in you best interest to get every possible question you can right. 

I have a BA in Russian and like to read about history and study languages as a hobby (yeah, I'm a dork, I know) and a few of those vocabulary words from the first part were pretty difficult.  

The spacial tests were fairly easy until about halfway through and they just got mental. I guess something like that, you either know, or do not know. 

As far as the problem solving stuff, the government tests that everyone mentions (especially the GCT) are good practice. I have written a few of them in federal gov't job competitions and if I hadn't seen them before, I would have been dead in the water on the CFAT. 

As far as the interview, mine was very long according to the super-friendly med tech whom I saw later (it was for DEO and done by an air force Capt. and a naval LtCmdr), but like other people have said, it really is more of an informal chit-chat than anything, but be prepared to answer lots of questions about your education, extra-curricular activities and job experience. 

I hope this is helpful to anyone reading these threads. In case anyone is curious, I passed everything, now I just need to pass my PT in 2 weeks and I'm on my way to being a PRes Infantry officer.  Cheers.


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

Do they judge it by how many questions you get right or just if you pass, and is the interview nervraking or do the interviewers do a good job of getting you to speak feel at home because if never really been one to give a long drawn out answer when i can answer questions in a few sentences will that hurt me or no?


----------



## arctictern

USSRsovietsnake said:
			
		

> Do they judge it by how many questions you get right or just if you pass.


When you are done the test they talk to you one on one and you get a list of all the jobs you qualify for. Depending on that you may have to change what job(s) you chose.



			
				USSRsovietsnake said:
			
		

> and is the interview nervraking or do the interviewers do a good job of getting you to speak feel at home because if never really been one to give a long drawn out answer when i can answer questions in a few sentences will that hurt me or no?


I guess it really just depends on the person who interviews you, I felt very comfortable during my interview though. Try not to get to worried or worked up about it, stay calm and relaxed and you'll do just fine.


----------



## Spooks

If you have talked to anyone else bout wanting to join the military then you have pretty much already had an interview for everyperson who expressed interest or intriuge on your enrollment. Why do you want to join?What makes you a good candidate? All questions you've probably been asked before. Go in, be calm, and tke it as any other person asking questions. If you don't know, then you don't know - no problem. If you don't understand any of the fancy politically correct phrases used, ask for clarification. If you need to elaborate, then elaborate (but don't storytell). The interview isn't a "yes, sir. No, sir" interrogation.

My 2 rubles,
-Spooks


----------



## soon_to_be_army_05

can anyone help me with my math for my apptitude tes.anyone that is in montreal?


thx


----------



## zerhash

hrmmm
make sure you go over fractions. add subtract, multiply, divide, the works

practice algebra, word problems

very broad what you need to know, but u cant really practice for the test

do your best.. refresh yourself on what you use to know and youll do fine

Good Luck

Spr. Richmond


----------



## mjr payne

here is the link for the practice aplitude test  http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct_test_e.htm  also what kinda score do u have to get to be a combat engineer  or infantry


----------



## zerhash

im pretty sure that the engineers are about the same as th infantry. i dont think ive seen a result that had infantry and not engineer.
as for test results they dont tell you what you scored but how well you did in each area.


----------



## mdh

Don't make any assumptions about the aptitude test. People do fail - quite regularly, and they are often very good people who would make excellent soldiers. Moreover the higher your score, the more opportunities/options that are open to you. As Spr. Richmond pointed out above, brush up on basic arithmatic skills; the best test-taking strategy is to guess-timate rather than working through calculations on a piece of paper. (you won't have time to work out elaborate problems) If you're weak on math, then practice, it does make a difference and you can improve your overall score.   There's plenty of information on it in the recruiting Q&As.


----------



## EasyCo

Just to clarify, they do not do negative correcting.  You get points for right answers and no points for wrong answers.


----------



## militarygirl88

Hi, I have to say the test was shall we say more simple the second time round. I just re-took my Aptitude test today. I was really disappointed and just as confused as you are when I failed it my first time, but I was given a site to go to that had a practice Aptitude test. I must say it helped me out a lot when I tried the Practice test. My best advice to you is to try not to worry about it too much, when you retake your test go into it thinking it is just a review, and you will most likely ace the test. May ask what you are trying to go for?  
 militarygirl88


----------



## Spazkatt

I found this very interesting.....      http://www.purplemath.com/        good for brushing up your math skills...problem solving in particular.


----------



## mjr payne

try this   http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct_test_e.htm


----------



## carpediem

I liked the sample tests in this book from Chapters:

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Item=978083736729&Catalog=Books&N=35+528928&Lang=en&Section=books&zxac=1

As well there are lots of sites with practice tests if you search Goggle with:

gatb test practice


----------



## mbhabfan

on the government competency test link above I just scored 92 is this going to be a good score in relation to the cfat?  Is it even a realistic comparison?


----------



## dano

The competency test is not an accurate substitute for the CFAT.
However, scoring 92 on that test does indicate that you do have the ability to do well on the CFAT.


----------



## Torlyn

jcschild said:
			
		

> You mean they don't allow you to use a pencil and paper for the test.  It's all mental?



No, you get paper and a pencil, but you're on a fairly tight time schedule...  IF you can't do the basics in your head fast, it'll take up too much time.

T


----------



## jcschild

Okay I understand.  That is good.  How much time do you have for the entire test?

JCSCHILD


----------



## Torlyn

It's broken up in to three segments, and you get a certain amount of time to answer the questions.  I think the total test in an hour, but remember that there's a bunch of talking during that... scroll through this thread from the beginning, you'll find the answers.    Good luck!

T


----------



## jcschild

Well they gave me this website, the Recruiting Office that is as a means to practice.

 http://www.jobs.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm

But really all I can suggest is to know your Grade 10 Math.  The practice site is for practice.  You can't really be prepared for what to expect.  I found it to be pretty easy except for the math section because I wasn't good in that area.

I think it also depends on what you are applying for, where NCM's don't need to get as high as Officer's do.

Good luck.

JCSCHILD


----------



## cihmitb

Hi, my gf applied for infantry res and failed and she is studying to be a vet, and she gets no lower then 70 in anything in school. the army infantry is what I have wanted to do my whole life and it is the only thing I think I can do and will enjoy doing, right now I am 18 in adult ed finishing up my enlish math and french, (I live in quebec  but I'm english) any ways I'm having a hard time gettiing my high school leaving and if my girl friend who is much smarter then me can not qualify to be infantry then what are my chances? I am getting mixed feed back about this test, I hear some people say it is super easy and then others who say them and every one they know fail it when they take it, is the test diff in diff parts of canada? or what..... my girl friend did that little test that the recruiter gave her and said it was nothing like the real test and gave a false sence that the test is easy when infact it is not, is this fair? shouldn't someone do something about that..... anyways any info is greatly appreciated, thank you.


chris


----------



## bossi

cihmitb said:
			
		

> ... my girl friend did that little test that the recruiter gave her and said it was nothing like the real test and gave a false sence that the test is easy when infact it is not, is this fair? shouldn't someone do something about that ...



Ironically, when I clicked on this thread today I was thinking to myself how much it annoys me that some people seem to think it is okay to ask for "too much information" ...

First of all - the purpose of any test is to determine whether the person writing the test has a particular, minimum amount of knowledge.  Therefore, it defeats the purpose of the test if too much information is made available.  In school, it is called "cheating" when somebody copies the answers from somebody else.

Now, as far as the CFAT goes ... it has been a while since I was a recruiting officer, however I do remember that some people would score badly when they were poorly prepared, or wrote the test when they were sick or did not get a good night's sleep the night before ... etc.

The topic has virtually been exhausted here, but ... when writing the CFAT, or ANY other test, it is important to be prepared (i.e. do homework).  I am fairly certain it has been said again and again and again that the sample questions are NOT/NOT/NOT adequate for studying/preparation - they are only a sample of the style or type of questions on the CFAT.  In this thread there are many suggestions of books or other tests which people can use for practice.

So, while it is unfortunately that your girlfriend failed her test (even though she gets good marks at school) it is simply "one of those things" - many other people pass the CFAT.

If a person wants to join the Army more than anything else in the world, then they will "go the extra mile" and do extra homework.  For students, there are probably teachers in your school who can provide some sample tests (not identical to the CFAT, but with questions to "warm up" your brain ...).

Good luck to all, and remember - "if at first you don't succeed ...".
Quitters never win, winners never quit.


----------



## cihmitb

Thanks for the info bossi, I will study a lot and practice my multiplication, addition, subtraction, division, and grammar, before I go and if I fail I will try again and again intill I pass (hopefully I wont have to  ) any ways so is there anything else besides the multiplication, addition, subtraction, division, and grammar that I should study, thanks for the help it is really appreciated.


----------



## bossi

cihmitb said:
			
		

> ... so is there anything else besides the multiplication, addition, subtraction, division, and grammar that I should study ...



In addition to mathematics, mathematics, and more mathematics ... "Problem-solving" or "test-writing" is a good idea, especially if anybody has not written an "aptitude" test recently ...

Once upon a time when I was in high school, there was a mathematics club (they practiced for the University of Waterloo Math Competition - ditto for U of W Physics competition) - they had lots and lots of examples of questions, and the math teachers were only too glad to help (... since almost NOBODY was interested in the Math club ... haha!)  When I joined Recruiting, I was required to write all the tests (i.e. this was done for all recruiting personnel, just in case we applied for a different trade and had to write these tests again ...) - at the time, my scores were among the highest ever recorded at that particular Recruiting Centre (... now, if I could only translate that into something more useful ... like a good pickup line ... but, I digress ... time for all of you to hit the books ...).


----------



## Docherty

Is the Aptitude test harder for Officer Candidates?


----------



## mdh

Yes - officer candidates require a higher score on the CFAT. I believe there is a minimum score that must be achieved. So it's important to make sure you are comfortable writing the CFAT.  I think Bossi has some great advice.  By reviewing word/math problems, you can help improve your overall performance on the problem-solving portion of the test. If you feel uncomfortable with aptitude tests then practice before you take it.  I've seen too many kids have their opportunities circumscribed by the CFAT, cheeers and good luck, mdh


----------



## Garbageman

ogidan said:
			
		

> is it possible for one to have a sample of the test.



Short answer, NO.

Read the rest of this thread before you post.  If someone gives you a copy of what the test looks like, then it isn't really a true TEST anymore, now is it?


----------



## bossi

Huggy said:
			
		

> ... People are saying that you don't have to study for a aptitude test ...



It would be more accurate to say that it's difficult to study with the sole aim of improving your "aptitude", however it is possible to warm up or prepare yourself for the task of _writing_ the test (especially if a person hasn't written too many tests after leaving school, and therefore is out of practice ...).



			
				Huggy said:
			
		

> My two cents:  â Å“If someone gives you a copy of what the test looks like, then it isn't really a true TEST anymore, now is it?â ?  Well.... Not all true but, it is. In college your allowed to have copies of last years tests or that madder last semesters test and use them as you see fit, a lot if the time instructor will use the same layout and same questions just with different number or a little different situation in the question.  So it is still a test.



You're comparing wrenches and dodgeballs (i.e. "if you can dodge a wrench ...")
The CFAT is not a university examination or quiz.
The point being made is that to obtaining sample questions is okay, but to obtain an actual copy of the *real* CFAT would be tantamount to cheating.


----------



## mdh

It's always interesting to compare how we do things compared to the US.  The US armed forces uses what they call the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVB) which is used to stream potential candidates into various trades.  It has spawned a virtual sub-industry with several published guide books designed to replicate the test with a series of practice tests. There's a website that deals with the test in detail as well. In addition, the US Navy has even gone as far to offer potential recruits a pre-test in advance of writing the actual ASVB. Obviously they have recognized that there are a lot of people who may not do well on the ASVB but they can be brought up to a higher standard through practice.


----------



## Torlyn

Huggy said:
			
		

> -basic math (  adding, subtrating, BADMAS, long division )
> -verbal (Definitions of given words, interchangable words)
> -spatial (Fold this shap in your head, what does this look like for a different angle)



You've pretty well nailed it right there.  (er, and it's BEDMAS, Brackets Exponents Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction)  The biggest thing is to learn how to do math FAST.  You're on a tight schedule, so if you get flustered by a question, move on.  As for the verbal, either ya got it or ya don't.    Can't really cram for a verbal test..  The spatial is the same.  Google some spatial tests, some basic math tests, get all the stuff refreshed in your memory from Math 10.  (In alberta, not sure what it is elsewhere)  Practice, get your speed up, and you'll do fine.

T


----------



## Canuck_25

What is the mark they expect you to get on the aptitude test for an infantry officer?


 I looked over the goverment tests that were suggested on this thread. The math i found easy, but the word relation questions were a little confusing.


----------



## Docherty

Does anyone know what the minimum score I need to get into an Armoured Recce unit?


----------



## Love793

Yep, and I won't tell you. You don't find the scores out as an applicant.  The test isn't pass/fail either.  It is designed to test your ability to learn in the trades.  There is a page on the Govt of Canada site that gives sample tests for people to try prior to writing ALL govt aptitude tests.  I don't have the site off hand, but if you call CFRC or Reserve unit and ask to speak with a recruiter they WILL provide it.


----------



## Ty

Love793 said:
			
		

> Yep, and I won't tell you. You don't find the scores out as an applicant.   The test isn't pass/fail either.   It is designed to test your ability to learn in



Does that imply that you can find out your score if/when you are accepted?  I'm really curious as to how I did!


----------



## Love793

You can ask a CFRC to see your results.   It's abased on series' of percentiles that are required for each different trade.   The higher you score, the more trades you can be competitive in.   The Arms (with the exception of Cook and Steward) are at the bottom (apparently we don't need to read,write or do math), tradesmen are towards the top.   You should have gotten a printout showing how many trades you qualified for.   This should be a idea of how you faired.


----------



## Ty

Love793 said:
			
		

> You can ask a CFRC to see your results.   It's abased on series' of percentiles that are required for each different trade.   The higher you score, the more trades you can be competitive in.   The Arms (with the exception of Cook and Steward) are at the bottom (apparently we don't need to read,write or do math), tradesmen are towards the top.   You should have gotten a printout showing how many trades you qualified for.   This should be a idea of how you faired.



I'm actually going DEO, so it's a "one size fits all" deal.  Once I'm kitted out, I'll drop the CFRC a line and see if I can take a gander- thanks for the info!


----------



## SudsyNavy

i was never told my score when i did my Aptitude test, all my recruiter told me was congrats you qualify for the trades you have chosen,


----------



## Love793

You should have received a print out, listing the trades you qualified for.


----------



## kincanucks

Docherty said:
			
		

> Does anyone know what the minimum score I need to get into an Armoured Recce unit?



Lots.


----------



## hoote

Hey guys.   I just wrote the CFAT and while I can't tell you what the questions were, I can tell you to study each test category.   Study Vocab, study spatial ability practice tests and study math problems.   Find books in your local library.   I didn't know what to study and went in and found it hard.   So that is my advice, find books on each subject and study!!!

You can shut this down if you feel it gives too much info away but I don't think it does.     ;D


----------



## Blakey

hoote said:
			
		

> Hey guys.   I just wrote the CFAT and while I can't tell you what the questions were, I can tell you to study each test category.   Study Vocab, study spatial ability practice tests and study math problems.   Find books in your local library.   I didn't know what to study and went in and found it hard.   So that is my advice, find books on each subject and study!!!
> 
> You can shut this down if you feel it gives too much info away but I don't think it does.       ;D



I don't think that gives away anything....
This might be a good link to look at though...
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/aptitude_test_e.aspx?bhcp=1


----------



## Love793

Blakey said:
			
		

> I don't think that gives away anything....
> This might be a good link to look at though...
> http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/aptitude_test_e.aspx?bhcp=1



You're right your not giving anything away.  Good starting point, but there is a practice Apptitude test avail on the Public Works web site.  Call your CFRC and get the address.  It's pretty long however (the web address), so bring a pen and paper to the phone.


----------



## Island Ryhno

High school should prepare you for most of the test, it's academic math (as opposed to advanced or AP) The vocab is like a high school language course. The examples provided for you on your application package are a good precursor. Spatial ability is something you either have or you don't have, I don't think it's something you could really practice for. There are examples out there, but I'm not sure if they would help. It' more along the lines of reasoning...if this, then that type thing. Overall it's not that hard, you'll do fine, just go in there with a positive attitude! Good luck


----------



## kincanucks

Try here:

http://www.jobs-emplois.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm


----------



## AndrewD83

The best advice is to get the latest GED study guide from the library.  The Canadian GED's give you tons of practice questions and even a few full practice tests.  Also the book will tell you how to do most problems step by step (especially useful for math questions.)  

I knew my biggest problem for the CFAT would be math so for a few weeks I did a ton of basic math questions (fractions, simple multiplying and dividing, how to add/subtract, multi/divide fractions, percentages, blah blah blah).  Doing that made the math part of the CFAT seem the easiest.

Infantry you only need a few questions right to be considered for the trade so don't sweat it but put some effort in it as well.  You want to improve your chances of getting the 'big call' whenever you can.


----------



## Munner

One little advice for the math problems - round to the closest easiest number. Every section of your test will be timed, and you don't have a calculator. They ofthen give you problems with numbers like 24.387. Just use the number 25 because you have to do the calculation in your head. If you round all the numbers to a somewhat easy one you will easily be able to get an approximate answer. Usually, the correct answer is the only one that is even close to the number you got. 

It's easy to get frazzled and be trying to figure out these complicated caluclations in your head. I'm sure that's part of the test - to see your problem solving ability.

So just remember....keep it simple stupid!


----------



## mdh

I wouldnt worry about it, since its mostly common sense questions. Remember, its an APTITUDE test, used by the CF to determine which type of learner you are (in most cases)....
 

Although I know where Shortbus is coming from on this I would caution some folks who aren't good at writing aptitude tests that they shouldn't take the CFAT lightly and allow themselves to be lulled into a false sense of security. If you have trouble with basic math do something about it - my recommendation is find a tutor who can work with you on word problems, fractions, number sequences, decimals, etc. Get the tutor to focus on a test-like situation, and get you to practice doing some math in your head - quickly. Rounding up is a good strategy as noted above. In my very short time assisting in recruiting at a reserve unit, we had a significant number people who didn't make the cut-off score to qualify for infantry 031/23.  They were probably otherwise very capable and might have made great soldiers - but they were denied the opportunity.  Kincanucks, link above is an excellent place to start, cheers, mdh


----------



## Greywolf

For the math portion of the test, even though you can't use a calculator, you will be provided with pencil and paper to work out your calculations.  

Don't worry, the test is not hard at all.  The actual questions on the test will be harder than the examples they show you in your application forms though.


----------



## hoote

Really, its all relative.   We all have different aptitude abilities.   Some guys say the test is easy, some say it's tough.   I found it tough because I wasn't prepared.   I forgot how to multiply fractions, divide decimals, etc.   However, by far the most difficult part for me was the spatial ability section.   Seeing the timer going and trying to fold those dang boxes was challenging.   There is a book by one of those tutor companies (princeton, or barron, or something) and its called the Mechanical aptitude and spatial ability study guide (something like that). It has a lot of strategies on how to do well on the test.   For example, it can tell you how to approach the question, where to start folding the boxes, some tricks the testers use, etc.  

I know some guys say its an inate ability and while I do agree somewhat I must say there is a lot you can do to improve your score.   It's like IQ.   We are all born with a certain range where our IQ will end up.   Its the environment that we grow up in (school, proper nutrition, stimulating activities) that determines "where" in that range we will end up.   So for the test, even though you may never get 100%, study so that you can get the best score you are capable of.   

Hope all that made sense without getting into a discussion of Weschler, the WAIS-R and IQ testing!


----------



## J.F.

I did not receive a printout of any kind.  I was only given a slip of paper that confirmed I had passed. Do you think that is because I applied to a specific trade/unit?


----------



## Spooks

J.F.
If I were to guess, yes. A bunch of us al went to get tested, already submitting our choices. We tested and then were told that we passed for the trades we selected. I think the list is for those who go in saying: "What can I be in the military?"

-Spooks


----------



## pilot_hopeful

Your IQ and $2.50 will get you on a bus.

I have never really put much faith in those tests.


----------



## RapidFire

Take this IQ test:   http://www.iqtest.com/

It's the only one I could find that had a timer.

I got: 123

I think if you get at least avarage then you'll do okay on the aptitude test.

Intelligence Interval Cognitive Designation 
40 - 55 Mentally disabled (Less than 1% of test takers) 
55 - 70 Learning difficulty (2.3% of test takers) 
70 - 85 Below average 
85 - 115 Average (68% of test takers) 
115 - 130 Gifted 
130 - 145 Genius (2.3% of test takers) 
145 - 160 Extraordinary genius (Less than 1% of test takers) 
160+ "Unmeasurable" genius


----------



## Love793

try this site.

www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_test_e.htm

This is practice aptitude test suggested by CFRC.


----------



## RapidFire

Wow, I did horribale!



> The results of the test are : 60 %.


----------



## Island Ryhno

Thanks Rapid fire, you can call me gifted from here on in, I scored 138  ;D I am so Smrt


----------



## q_1966

Wow, i got 112, * start singing "I am so smart, SMRT, I know my ABD's, 1+1 is 3"


----------



## B.McTeer

i took that test just after grade 10 when i had a c average and i passed


----------



## NiTz

Hey guys, 

I'm kinda new in here but I can tell you the CFAT is quite easy to do.. I passed it today with flying colours. I got to dig deep in my memory cause a lot of the math problems (simple operations) were buried very deep under many other things, as I finished high school like 4 years ago.  

Anyways, I get my phys. test tomorrow, my med test on satursday and my interview on friday.. Hope everything will go as good as it went on my CFAT. Good luck to you all in your recruiting process and hope to see you in BMQ soon...  

cheers


----------



## q_1966

I went in yesterday to do the apptitude test and was off three points what I needed to get Armoured  (all Primary Reserve, are the same score by the way) I tell you what killed me were was the problem solving questions, now I have to wait 3-4 months to take it again or change my application and become a Reg Force Cook (Which I qualified for, but still Debating)


----------



## Love793

Papke said:
			
		

> I went in yesterday to do the apptitude test and was off three points what I needed to get Armoured  (all Primary Reserve, are the same score by the way) I tell you what killed me were was the problem solving questions, now I have to wait 3-4 months to take it again or change my application and become a Reg Force Cook (Which I qualified for, but still Debating)



PRes trades have the same scores as the reg force counterparts.  An Infanteer is an Infanteer, a Cook is a Cook, and Crewman  is a Crewman.


----------



## Canuck_25

Love793 said:
			
		

> try this site.
> 
> www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_test_e.htm
> 
> This is practice aptitude test suggested by CFRC.



 I took that test and got 57%

 I have to say, i saw some Math 12 problems in there and some Math 11.  As for some of the Vocab, never heard of the word "OSTRACIZE" before.

 I sure as hell hope that the CFAT isnt that hard, every question i guessed on that test, i got wrong. Must be some goverment secret  

 If it is, ill have to learn words like SUCCINCT, TANTAMOUNT, ANOMALY and FRUGAL


----------



## George Wallace

That was a rather succinct post.  It is tantamount to genius.  Your frugal use of words will make you an anomaly on course.  I hope that you don't get ostracised by your course mates.

 ;D

GW


----------



## Morgs

George Wallace said:
			
		

> That was a rather succinct post.  It is tantamount to genius.  Your frugal use of words will make you an anomaly on course.  I hope that you don't get ostracised by your course mates.
> 
> ;D
> 
> GW



Fantastic!  ;D

Made my evening


----------



## Canuck_25

George Wallace said:
			
		

> That was a rather succinct post.   It is tantamount to genius.   Your frugal use of words will make you an anomaly on course.   I hope that you don't get ostracised by your course mates.
> 
> ;D
> 
> GW



 However brilliant it was, it failed to answer my question.


----------



## Meridian

What is your question again?


This is an aptitude test. It tests your aptitude. Ie, it is not focused on your learned knowledge. 

Just do the tests, the best way to improve your score is to get a feel of how the questions will be formed, and to get into that mode of thinking... If I recall correctly, lots of pattern-related stuff, using deductive logic, etc.

They are testing to ensure you will be able to pick up things and apply logical thinking. Depending on the trade, some require more advanced levels of spatial ability ie AirCrew vs RMS Clerk...  and so on.


Don't worry about it so much, go over some of the questions, and you should be fine.

BTW, many people don't finish it, or barely finish it... If it was that hard of a test, we wouldn't have so many people on this board wondering when their board will come back.


----------



## Canuck_25

Meridian said:
			
		

> What is your question again?
> 
> 
> This is an aptitude test. It tests your aptitude. Ie, it is not focused on your learned knowledge.
> 
> Just do the tests, the best way to improve your score is to get a feel of how the questions will be formed, and to get into that mode of thinking... If I recall correctly, lots of pattern-related stuff, using deductive logic, etc.
> 
> They are testing to ensure you will be able to pick up things and apply logical thinking. Depending on the trade, some require more advanced levels of spatial ability ie AirCrew vs RMS Clerk...   and so on.
> 
> 
> Don't worry about it so much, go over some of the questions, and you should be fine.
> 
> BTW, many people don't finish it, or barely finish it... If it was that hard of a test, we wouldn't have so many people on this board wondering when their board will come back.



 I have every reason to act insecure, i have one chance and if i fail to recieve the score required for reserve infantry officer, i will miss almost on year before i can write again.


----------



## Meridian

I don't think you understand what Im saying to you here.

The more you worry about it, the more you reduce your chances of doing well. On the other hand, the more you take proactive steps (worrying IMO is not proactive) to get better, the better you will be.

If you are looking for someone on here to tell you its a cakewalk, well, you will either be waiting awhile or being lied to.

I remember doing it, thinking I did terrible and being told I qualififed for every trade possible (Officer). I never got my score.

But really, the best way to prepare is to follow their guidelines. Review similar problems to get a feel for the type of questions, sleep well, relax, and go for it.


----------



## mdh

I hate to be the bore of the board on this subject but when I see this...

I went in yesterday to do the apptitude test and was off three points what I needed to get Armoured (all Primary Reserve, are the same score by the way) I tell you what killed me were was the problem solving questions, now I have to wait 3-4 months to take it again or change my application and become a Reg Force Cook (Which I qualified for, but still Debating)

This is precisely why it's important not to be complacent about the CFAT.   If you do not meet certain scores assigned to an MOC you will not be offered a position with that MOC. In fact, if your score is low enough then you won't be offered any position. 

The bottom line here is this: if you are weak in math or feel uncomfortable with writing aptitude tests then get some practice/help.   Get a personal tutor to help at your school.

And in a marked contrast to the above:


Hey guys, 

I'm kinda new in here but I can tell you the CFAT is quite easy to do.. I passed it today with flying colours. I got to dig deep in my memory cause a lot of the math problems (simple operations) were buried very deep under many other things, as I finished high school like 4 years ago. 

And it's exactly these kinds of posts that don't help the cause.   It may be easy for this individual who happens to be good at writing aptitude tests, it may not be for others.   Don't let posts like this create a false sense of security.


----------



## JasonH

Christ it's really depressing sometimes thinken about the future.

Last time I took a math course was grade 9.  I'm 18 and I should have graduated, and because I was out of highschool for 2 years I missed a lot of crap (ill/surgery).
This is the last semester in school I can stay before they start maken me pay because my 19th bday is in april.  And I'm hopen to finally move into redo-ing the CFAT,
back in sept. I failed it, come April/May.  But that begs the question, I can't remember a whole lot from the math portion of the CFAT.  But how do I re-learn from grade
9 to 11 in that little time?  I've come a long way since 2 years ago from where I begun my journy, and I'm so close (you don't know how hard it was just getting my
damn transcripts for grade 11).

Any help would be appreciated.  Everything on the cfat I did fine minus the math, which they specifically stated to come back in 3 months once you've fixed it.  I tried
but the school put me in some self paced course that required ME to get the math questions and what not.  And that idea was knoble but ate the curb.  So I'm taken
a course (dunno what grade yet) so hopefully with that along with tutoring I'll be off passing my cfat in april.

-Jason


----------



## cgyflames01

KUMON- I don't know if they have this on the west coast, but it did the trick for me. Once you get over the freaky 6 year old Asian girls that can do advanced trigonometry, their was a lot to learn, they start you at your earliest weak points, and build you up.


----------



## Sundborg

Buy a math text book from the school and get at er'.


----------



## Arclite

Night school math course might help


----------



## mdh

Hi Intelligere,

Just wondering if you know if test takers who do poorly the first time on CFAT do significantly better the second time around?   cheers, mdh


----------



## bojangles

I am in the same boat. I just got my call yesterday that I will be doing my CFAT on Tuesday of next week and my math skills are horrible to say the least. I work at a gym and I asked one of my colleagues who is good at math to give me a few lessons. He gladly gave me a crash refresher coarse on how to do long division,fractions etc.(yes I am THAT bad). Good Luck and I sure as heck hope I pass mine!

Bojangles


----------



## Ghost

I used to have the multiplcation table all the way up to 12 memorized.

Now I filled my head with Xbox and Rainbow Six Black Arrow.

"he's in the twirly stairs!"

12x7=Who has the canister?


----------



## mdh

Don't ever view the CFAT results as something "fixed" and beyond improvement.    

Hi Intelligere,

It's good to see someone who has worked worked with the CFAT weigh in on this topic.   My pet peeve on this thread are posters who claim the CFAT is easy - or something you can't prepare for - and end up leadiing some CF hopefuls down the garden path.   I did a a small amount of assisting with reserve unit recruiting and witnessed disappointed kids who didn't achieve the score they needed. 

If you have trouble with aptitude tests - then do something about it.   There's lots of help available out there if you look, cheers, mdh


ps one of our more common failures weren't guys out of high school but with guys with degrees who had been out of school for years   :-[


----------



## patrick666

I'm not so good at math and am applying for Combat Engineer. I have to find some independant sources to refresh my memory. I totally forget the easy ways of solving problems without a calculator, carrying over and such, and I will need those skills as I do not believe they allow calculators during the aptitude test. 

Cheers,

Patrick


----------



## kincanucks

_so if I cant even pass then who can? _ 

Actually a lot of people with less education pass it all the time.

Mislead?  By the examples?  LOL.

Try here:

http://www.jobs-emplois.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm


----------



## B.McTeer

i took my aptitude test the summer after grade 10 and i passed i. i didn't find the questions on the test all that hard. even some of math ones  hehehehe i got a 52% c- in math in grade 10 lol

B.McTeer


----------



## B.McTeer

the math question are simple all u have to do is think but to like grades7 and 8 and bring back long division and make use of the scrap paper they give you write out and show your work so you can go over it and there you go


----------



## darkskypoet

Any one know if there is a scale for that test that was linked to a few posts back? I scored 88.89% and thats with nieces and nephews grabbing at me, playing loudly in the background. Stupid desk question... Still don't get that one.. sigh.. Must be the distractions... Or just me..


----------



## Whiskey_Dan

Im in the application process right now and what scares me the most about all this is the CFAT. What is the % needed to pass for INF? 
Is it really as hard as some people say it is?
and is there anything I can do to better prepare myself for it?
Thanks.

Dan


----------



## jc5778

I scored 139, i am so smart,  i am so smart, s-m-r-t, I mean S-M-A-R-T!  That's why when the recruiter said "Do you like camping?"  I said "sure, doesn't everybody?"


----------



## USSRsovietsnake

What if you never get the call for some reason and decide to send in a new application once the other is closed can you write the test again then or you dont have to?


----------



## Pyromechanica

The thing is though they give a time limit on those math problems on the CFAT... in fact the whole CFAT is timed.

Just do the math quickly I guess?


----------



## Pieman

There are plenty of online tutorial and courses you can look through.

Look at math.com

A good resource for looking at general info in math is: 

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/
(A lot on that site is very advanced, but it covers almost everything under the sun to do with math)

There are lots of online courses you can sign up for, for varying prices. I poked around and saw a number of good courses you can do online for about $20 - $100, depending on the company. 

Math is learned through a lot of practice and repetition. So the more the better.


----------



## Torlyn

And this is from the guy with multiple degrees in mathematics...    Pieman, how come you haven't torn apart the 1:1 "political science isn't science" yet?  I've wanted to jump in, (Gee, prove any of the higher mathematical functions you (as a scientist) have done under the 1:1 format that's been alluded to here) but thought you'd be much more eloquent...  Jump, my boy.  JUMP!!  

T


----------



## bojangles

I just wrote the CFAT yesterday and I can tell you...I found it NO CAKE WALK! Mind you, I haven't wrote a test in 15 years. I am a little late coming into the Army at 33 but I would definitely advise anyone about to write the CFAT to brush up on basic math skills. The vocabulary part is a little harder to study for, unless of course you are up to reading the dictionary in hopes that you remember what all the big words mean. LOL!
Good Luck to those of you who are about to write it! I can't give anything away but definitely go back to about grade 7 to 10 math.
Hope this helps.

Bojangles


----------



## ps387

USSRsovietsnake said:
			
		

> What if you never get the call for some reason and decide to send in a new application once the other is closed can you write the test again then or you dont have to?



The test is valid for 3 years (this is according to CFRC Hamilton).

I did the test about a month ago and qualified for pretty much any trade the CF has. But it was NOT easy. I did the old aptitude test back in 1996 so I had some idea of what to expect. 
The thing to remember is (and this is no secret) the test is based on a grade 10 education. A number of people who are joining now are still in high school or recent graduates, but having been out of school for the past 10 years I couldn't recall what grade 10 was all about so I googled grade 10 math lesson plans to see what type of things they are learning. This won't give you the answers, but for someone like me who has only had to work out if I the change I have is enough for a large Timmy's, it certainly helped.


----------



## ps387

Intelligere said:
			
		

> CFAT results are valid indefinitely.



I beg to differ. I had to retake mine last month because 8+ years had passed since I had done them, which would indicate they are not 'valid indefinitely'. Further, I phoned CFRC Hamilton to double check the length of validity and was told 3 years.


----------



## Pieman

> Pieman, how come you haven't torn apart the 1:1 "political science isn't science" yet?



I had been staring at those comments in that thread for a while now in utter disbelief. I am sure poor Newton is stirring in his grave.
I decided to let the thread (and myself) cool off before I responded, and have since had trouble formulating an answer that does not sound condescending.  Anyway, the thread appears to be locked now.


----------



## kincanucks

JasonH said:
			
		

> Christ it's really depressing sometimes thinken about the future.
> 
> Last time I took a math course was grade 9.   I'm 18 and I should have graduated, and because I was out of highschool for 2 years I missed a lot of crap (ill/surgery).
> This is the last semester in school I can stay before they start maken me pay because my 19th bday is in april.   And I'm hopen to finally move into redo-ing the CFAT,
> back in sept. I failed it, come April/May.   But that begs the question, I can't remember a whole lot from the math portion of the CFAT.   But how do I re-learn from grade
> 9 to 11 in that little time?   I've come a long way since 2 years ago from where I begun my journy, and I'm so close (you don't know how hard it was just getting my
> darn transcripts for grade 11).
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.   Everything on the cfat I did fine minus the math, which they specifically stated to come back in 3 months once you've fixed it.   I tried
> but the school put me in some self paced course that required ME to get the math questions and what not.   And that idea was knoble but ate the curb.   So I'm taken
> a course (dunno what grade yet) so hopefully with that along with tutoring I'll be off passing my cfat in april.
> 
> -Jason



Beware of the verbal skills test too.


----------



## ps387

Intelligere...

There may indeed be instances when the CFAT is considered valid for extended periods (ie a remuster), but specific to the question asked by USSRsovietsnake, the test would need to be retaken after 3 years. When refering to the regular force, all phases of the recruiting process expire at some point and need to be redone. The interview (after six months), the medical,the fit test, etc. 
As procedures may be affected by individual circumstance, it may be prudent that anyone with questions regarding their particular situation contact their file manager. 
And we can certainly carry this on off the board if you so desire.


----------



## kincanucks

ps387 said:
			
		

> Intelligere...
> 
> There may indeed be instances when the CFAT is considered valid for extended periods (ie a remuster), but specific to the question asked by USSRsovietsnake, the test would need to be retaken after 3 years. When refering to the regular force, all phases of the recruiting process expire at some point and need to be redone. The interview (after six months), the medical,the fit test, etc.
> As procedures may be affected by individual circumstance, it may be prudent that anyone with questions regarding their particular situation contact their file manager.
> And we can certainly carry this on off the board if you so desire.



The CFAT is good until the test itself is changed or a new CFAT is instituted.   There is no reason ever to put a time limit on CFAT results and it does not expire.   A test result may be determined to be invalid if there was a disruption during the testing (e.g., fire alarm, etc.).   Still think you are right then produce the RHB article or the applicable Personnel Psychology Directive.

Oh sorry I see you are not in recruiting.  But you do offer one piece of good advice in your post and that is applicants should always contact their recruiting centre if they have questions about their files.  Cheers.


----------



## scm77

Math has never been one of my strong points.  Lately I've been spending alot of time on http://www.math.com you can select different subjects (fractions for example) and then you can click on different lessons that will show you step-by-step how to add fractions, subtract fractions, multiply, divide etc.  Then there is quizes so you can see if you know how to do it correctly.

Very valuable resource to people worried about the math part of the test (like me). 

http://www.math.com/homeworkhelp/EverydayMath.html


----------



## Love793

Best advice, try the practice test.  Get a feel  for the type of questions.  Get a good nights sleep.  If you don't get the answer right away, move on.  At the end of the section, worse comes to worse guess (it's not held against you if get it wrong).  Most importantly, be optimistic and RELAX.


----------



## NiTz

wow I scored 141.... maybe something went wrong in my head, like cells connecting to others they're not supposed to .. hahaha

Anyways, I doubt a little bit of the accuracy of those tests too...


Cheers!  :warstory:


----------



## combat_medic

There is already a long and exhaustive thread on the CFAT located here: http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

Please refer to this one. 

Topic locked.


----------



## JasonH

Yeah yeah,

Well anyways.. Month n a bit into my math course and it's all foreign to me!  I'm stocken up on the GED books now though and I think instead of studying a broad spectrum I'm gonna go for Basic Arithmetic.  

Adding, Subctracting, Multiplying, Division, Decimals (those were a bitch), Fractions, and Percents.  With those you easily knock out half the math part.  Definitly upgrade them word problems!

Recruiters have tried to phone me like several times but of course I never got the call and they never leave a message (Is it that hard to wait *3 god damn rings to leave a message?!*).  So they have me expecting to come in sometime in april with no date set.  And if I fail a second time my file goes to the UPO which would decide whether to allow me in or not from what I was told.  To bad he wouldn't interview my ass and maybe see where I'm coming from but that would be wrong cause that's borderline asking for handouts.

Anyways, goodluck to those in waiting!  I know I'm gonna need it myself  :'( :-\


----------



## vangemeren

I wrote the test two weeks ago, I scored high enough to be a "general service officer". Is a general service officer, an officer that isn't a pilot, dentist, or doctor? or are there others. I was just curious, and if I'm wrong, then tell me who is/isn't a general service officer?


----------



## ab136

General Service Officers

General service officers include all officers below the rank of colonel in all occupation groups except for pilots and specialist officers (legal, medical and dental officers). General service officers pay rates are determined through TC analysis, and they receive incentive level increases similar to those of non-commissioned members. One significant difference is that there are often more incentive levels for officer ranks than there are for non-commissioned member ranks to recognize that it takes longer for officers to gather all the experience, skill and knowledge to reach the job rate (maximum) for their rank.


----------



## vangemeren

I guess I will reveal my intentions, at a future time I would like to become an intelligence officer, are they GSOs?

To help keep it on track, In general, study grade 10 math, fill in every answer and don't stay on one question too long, fill the rest in later.


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

Ynord_8 said:
			
		

> _ If your going for an NCM position they don't care how good you get....! _



What? You should check your info there buddy. Certain NCM trades, especially the more technical ones, require a higher score on certain areas of the test then others.


----------



## vangemeren

canadian_soldier_8 said:
			
		

> :akimbo:i was wandering whats is the passing mark



There isn't really a traditional pass or fail test. It is more like a categorizing test. The higher you score, the more categories you can be elegible for as long as you fit the other requirements. Although if you don't qualify to be a NCM of a very non-tecnical trade (infantry comes to mind, but there are others), then you can't even get into the forces.
Another way you can think of it is, if you don't get the score that allows you to get into the occupation you want, then even if you got a good score then you "failed".


----------



## gavin wright

i have a question i live in jamaica can i join the canadian army


----------



## karl28

Gavin I am not sure on this but I think that you have to be a Canadian citizen. The best  place to check would be the  recruiting center here is the web site  www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca  I hope that it helps you out  good luck .


----------



## kincanucks

gavin wright said:
			
		

> i have a question i live in jamaica can i join the canadian army



You must be a Canadian citizen.


----------



## RyanNS

Here's a question someone can hopefully answer for me before 8:00 AM Monday morning.

I am applying to become an officer (DEO) and have just received the call, four days ago, to write my CFAT on Monday, March 7, 2005, 8:00 AM. Since then I have been brushing up on my math and taking several of the online aptitude tests listed on here, but I am still having some difficulties. I don't feel very confident writing the math part of the CFAT right now and I would like to receive some math tutoring before I write the exam. This is where the problem arises. Would it be a "strike" against me if I rescheduled to write my CFAT? I know the person I spoke with said, "Make sure you are there. It will look really bad if you aren't". I basically took this to mean don't not show up and not let anyone know, which I would never do, but now I am wondering that it might somehow negatively affect me if I cancel and reschedule this test. I don't think the CFRC I am dealing with is open tomorrow (Saturday) and definitely isn't Sunday, so I can't call and ask if this would be a problem. Hopefully somebody in here can provide me with some insight on this matter. As an officer (DEO) applicant, will canceling and rescheduling my CFAT become a negative strike against me in my quest to enter the Canadian Forces? Thanks


----------



## kincanucks

RyanNS said:
			
		

> Here's a question someone can hopefully answer for me before 8:00 AM Monday morning.
> 
> I am applying to become an officer (DEO) and have just received the call, four days ago, to write my CFAT on Monday, March 7, 2005, 8:00 AM. Since then I have been brushing up on my math and taking several of the online aptitude tests listed on here, but I am still having some difficulties. I don't feel very confident writing the math part of the CFAT right now and I would like to receive some math tutoring before I write the exam. This is where the problem arises. Would it be a "strike" against me if I rescheduled to write my CFAT? I know the person I spoke with said, "Make sure you are there. It will look really bad if you aren't". I basically took this to mean don't not show up and not let anyone know, which I would never do, but now I am wondering that it might somehow negatively affect me if I cancel and reschedule this test. I don't think the CFRC I am dealing with is open tomorrow (Saturday) and definitely isn't Sunday, so I can't call and ask if this would be a problem. Hopefully somebody in here can provide me with some insight on this matter. As an officer (DEO) applicant, will canceling and rescheduling my CFAT become a negative strike against me in my quest to enter the Canadian Forces? Thanks



Go write the CFAT and don't worry about it. It is too late to cancel now and if you call on Monday they will freak and you will get another appointment in July.


----------



## RyanNS

Wrote my CFAT this morning and passed with flying colors  ;D I guess the practice IQ and aptitude tests I was doing had more difficult math components then the CFAT. Still I think everyone should practice basic high school math before writing the CFAT. Now all I have to do is figure out what MOC i want to do  ???


----------



## Brando304

What's happening guys? Anyway, I just scored a 30% on a practice recruiting test @ http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm. I think I did better at the math, than the English. I plan to join the reserves, with an Infantry MOC. I hope the CFAT is alot easier than this test was. Anyways, if anyone else wants to give it a shot, and see how they do, by all means. Get back to me and let me know how you do, and if my chances are good in comarison to the CFAT. Thanx :-\


----------



## Brando304

Okay, I just wrote it again, and scored 60% ;D Of coarse I did do some studying on other sites.


----------



## COBRA-6

Don't worry, the CFAT is a lot easier than the GRT, that's designed for people who've already completed a university degree.


----------



## RyanNS

When I was practicing for my CFAT I was using the GRT http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm as well. The questions are the same type of questions you will be doing on the CFAT (fractions, ratios, spatial tests etc.) but they are a bit more complicated and intense of the GRT. There is no way to really study for the spatial part, just practice i suppose, and the same pretty much goes for the verbal/word association part as well. Practice your basic math (adding, dividing, multiplying, fractions, ratios) if you don't feel your skills are up to par. Good luck.


----------



## ps387

I got around 78% on the online test. I found it MUCH harder than the CFAT but it does give you an idea what to brush up on. I say brush up because high school was a LONG time ago...lol


----------



## scm77

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> Don't worry, the CFAT is a lot easier than the GRT, that's designed for people who've already completed a university degree.



I hope it that's true  

I got 30%.  The math formulas were what lost me the most marks.  That's exactly where I thought I'd have the most trouble.  I'll just have to brush up on math skills some more.  I hope they don't have that style of math question on the CFAT. :-X


----------



## Brando304

SCM77, I found that on the GRT, the math questions weren't all that hard, it was easy to rule out most of them. For instances, lets say you had to multiply everything in the question by 2; just rule out the ones that don't have a multipication by 2. Most of the questions you have to look at, and rule out the ones that obviosly won't work. Of coarse this won't work all the time, but it helps.


----------



## mdh

Does any one on the board know how the waiver system works. I know there is a waiver policy in place for those who have had difficulty with the CFAT, but who possess certain qualifications that CF wants - just not sure how it is applied - or whether it is up to the discretion of the CFRC commander.

Thanks in advance,

mdh


----------



## kincanucks

mdh said:
			
		

> Does any one on the board know how the waiver system works. I know there is a waiver policy in place for those who have had difficulty with the CFAT, but who possess certain qualifications that CF wants - just not sure how it is applied - or whether it is up to the discretion of the CFRC commander.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> mdh



There is an automatic waiver given by the CFRC/D CO for the first retest of the CFAT.   Subsequent retest waivers would have to be requested from higher.   CFAT results can only be requested to be waived if it is determined that the applicant possesses relevant education or experience to the occupation they are applying for (e.g. possesses electronics diploma and is applying for FCS Tech).   In some cases, CFRC/D COs can waive the CFAT results of DEOs who don't reach the minimum for officer.


----------



## mdh

Thank you sir, as usual you're a fount of great information,


----------



## Loadmaster

http://images.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=MATH&meta=


----------



## LordOsborne

To add on to cgy's comment, KUMON math centers are on the west coast. my sister's in Kumon right now, and it's helping her out.


----------



## Sh0rtbUs

Id help you out, but its hard to offer advice on "relearning" math, when I really havent learned it in the first place  :


----------



## Island Ryhno

Try www.math.com, it has tutorials and what not, and it actually will show you how to do the problems. Good luck


----------



## jarko

I borrowed a book called GED or something like that from a friend, its for people who didnt complete highschool, although i passed highschool normally i despise math. I hate it!!! I bought this book, did all the training for 2 weeks with the book and aced my math part on the CFAT.. I couldn't believe it myself since i always used to average with a 50% average in math.. Anyway if you want to know the name of the book, i will dig it up and let you know


----------



## LordOsborne

Either way, man, best of luck with the math. just keep pounding the books :threat:


----------



## GSF523

When i did the test in 1996 it was this three hour thing, then i was in the reserves but in 2000 I took i t again for the reg forces it was an hour long and hard, there where honour students failing it also, so then when they figured out they were not getting anyone they kind of went easy on it so they can get people in. The recruiting officer tried to to get ottawa to waiver it since i had experience but they would not let it go even though i had experience. So it kind of turned me the wrong way and i never went back. and they went missing having someone fill that position.


----------



## canadianblue

I got 45% on that test. That test was really hard. I did poorly on the mathematical questions were I had to make a formula to figure out the problem. 

What score is required of any person applying to become a fulltime MP?


----------



## PetitGuerrier

I scored 77.5 on the GRT in english (which is not my first language). I guess I'm ready for the CFAT.


----------



## inverc

I have been reading a lot of the postings about the CFAT exam, I'm preparing to take the exam in a few month but I have dyslexia and my verbal skill are not the best, but i do work for Hewlett-Packard Server dept. and hold a number of certifications, MCSE,CCNA, CNE and working right now on my BS in computer security. I would like to get into the communication research area but I'm afraid I will not get a high enough score. 

Does any one know if there is consideration for certifications or experience and or consideration for people with dyslexia?


----------



## kincanucks

inverc said:
			
		

> I have been reading a lot of the postings about the CFAT exam, I'm preparing to take the exam in a few month but I have dyslexia and my verbal skill are not the best, but i do work for Hewlett-Packard Server dept. and hold a number of certifications, MCSE,CCNA, CNE and working right now on my BS in computer security. I would like to get into the communication research area but I'm afraid I will not get a high enough score.
> 
> Does any one know if there is consideration for certifications or experience and or consideration for people with dyslexia?



There is no consideration given to people with dyslexia.  Only with directly occupation related experience/education could there or may there be any consideration given to if you don't meet the CFAT minimum for the occupation.


----------



## frank249

Did they explain the retest procedure and what you can do to improve your scores the next time?

The rule is that you can rewrite the test  after 3 months have passed.  However you have to be careful about rushing the rewrite as it is very hard to get another chance after that.  I recommend that you wait a year and complete some academic upgrading especially in math as that makes up the majority of the test.  For improving your word knowledge, it helps to read the newspaper everyday and when you do not know a word, look it up in a dictionary.  There is no much you can do about the spatial questions unless you can find a book of examples at chapters and practice them.

Good luck in the future.


----------



## FITSUMO

if you need help with math, there are lots of tutors that can and will help, Or you might want to talk to some of your  mates about helping you.  I like what was said about the paper reading( and looking up words that you don't understand).  For the spatial stuff, go to chapters and get the spatial realations test book by barons, it will help.  Another good book to pick up is the GAT battery.  I will tell you something, I have worked research and development for the last ten years and i had to review how to do math without a calculator, it was humbling, but self-improvement should be ongoing, keeps ya fresh.  Ask about the retest, take the time, get the help and then kick some @#$.

cheers


----------



## canadianblue

I wrote the CFAT today, and I thought that I would go through it pretty easily. But the question's are alot harder then the samples they provide with your application, even from what was said on this forum. I think that I passed, but will only have to wait and see.


----------



## George

i have my CFAT And Interview May 31st, I My choice's were Infantry Soldier And Amoured Solider! Does anyone know if you need a supurb socre to get into thoise ocupations??? Please Respond


----------



## kincanucks

_supurb socre to get into thoise ocupations_

Yes you have to do well in all parts of the test.  Are you taking it in French?


----------



## P-Free

Dudio, nobody can tell you how hard it is going to be for you. But people have passed it with a grade 10 education and people have failed it with university degrees. And it's supposed to be something you should pass without studying for, so just go in there and get'er done.


----------



## Gouki

Holy christ if the CFAT is the hardest thing you've done in life you've either been living in a cave in the Wudan mountains for the last 10 years or you're special ... really, really special ..

Honestly the CFAT isn't hard .. get a good nights rest and eat a good breakfast and there is no way you cannot go wrong provided you aren't one of the above.


----------



## kincanucks

George said:
			
		

> No iim not taking it in french....i messed a couple of words...sew me! LOL....is the CFAT as hard as everyone says it is...because you get different posts stating...oh it was a cake walk and others saying it was the hardest thing they have ever done! so im new to this forum and by looking at some of your posts it seems as though you know what your talking about! And one more thing im very bad at math?? will that have a lot to do with passing for Infantry Soldier which is what i really wanna do!!
> 
> Please Respond!


Good Luck.   ;D


----------



## Fideo

Frederik G said:
			
		

> Actually I read somewhere (can't recall exactly where tho) that playing sports like hockey, basketball and such helps with spatial ability.
> 
> But it works on long-term, so if you're going for the test soon, there's nothing you can do, as far as I know.
> 
> Just random bit of info



Well I was hoping you were right (I been playing hockey for 8 years as a goalie).....but I look at the spatial example on the net and didnt scroll down to see the answer. I thought really hard and decided to select (D)....then I scroll down and find its (B)  ??? I was like wtf lol...and I really thought hard before I scrolled down. Im laughing now but I dont think it will be really funny once I do the test. Is it true that you have a year wait before your next CFAT...and if so what are the wait periods for the other tests. Im researching for some spatial testing on the net. Cheers


----------



## codeblue

i did pretty bad on the cfat and as told ill have a chance to do it again after 3 months i found this site pretty dame handy http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/psychotests.htm


----------



## D-n-A

Just get a good sleep the night before, don't be nervous about the test or anything when you do it, an most of all read the questions an all the answers, don't try to rush through it.

Its really not to difficult, I suck at math an I still did pretty well on the CFAT.


----------



## Copper_Sunrise

I think the CFs stance is pretty simple, you need to pass all 4 tests to get in. Just because you can pass the interview doesn't mean anything if you fail the CFAT or any other test. It may be tough but they need some way to screen potential members.


----------



## codeblue

i faild just the cfat. again was told that i could never reapply to the army for the rest of my life if i dont pass the cfat the 2nd time around. is this true??


----------



## ThatsLife

I was wondering...I don't know if it's called the "Aptitude test," but what the math questions consist of? Basic multiplication/subtraction/division? or is it going to be like   t26 niner x=emrc to the multiple of the universe times the atoms of ten four = the galaxy.

I tried looking for an example test but I couldn't find one. I'm not the brightest bulb in the math department.  ^-^

 :skull:    - Emilio


----------



## Rubes

Basic addition/subtraction/multiplication/division of fractions and decimals.  Most of the time it is in the form of a problem solving question, but not always.


----------



## ThatsLife

Just as I soothed. What happens if you don't do so well on the math section?


----------



## 48Highlander

They castrate you and kill your kittens.

C'mon, what say we think this through for a second?  You're doing a test...and you can't answer some questions.  Now, using past experience and applying a bit of logic, what do you suppose the reprecussions could be?


----------



## RossF

48Highlander said:
			
		

> They castrate you and kill your kittens.
> 
> C'mon, what say we think this through for a second?   You're doing a test...and you can't answer some questions.   Now, using past experience and applying a bit of logic, what do you suppose the reprecussions could be?



They give you your travel costs and wish you good luck with life.


----------



## Island Ryhno

RossF said:
			
		

> They give you your travel costs and wish you good luck with life.



Not true exactly, you may have you selection of trades limited, but a poor showing on the math side will not automatically eliminate you. Oh and don't worry, this is the hardest part of the math;

Formal Integral Definition:
 f(x) dx = lim (d -> 0)  (k=1..n) f(X(k)) (x(k) - x(k-1)) when... 

a = x0 < x1 < x2 < ... < xn = b
d = max (x1-x0, x2-x1, ... , xn - x(n-1))
x(k-1) <= X(k) <= x(k)     k = 1, 2, ... , n
 F '(x) dx = F(b) - F(a) (Fundamental Theorem for integrals of derivatives)  ;D


----------



## NiTz

Island rhyno : I don't remember that the questions were so simple !   piece of cake!

Seriously, study your basic math and you should do fine and if you mess up, then try again! How bad do you want this? hehehe... 

Good luck !


----------



## DEVES

I am wondeing if anyone has an answer to this question I have?

Right now I am a 21 year old male and I have taken the CFAT 2 times without passing it for the trade as Infantry. I have alot if not more common sense then most 21 year old guys i know. Ive lived on my own since 16 and have had a full time job since while completing High school and geting my High school diploma.

I know that the requirements for getting this trade are not as high but I just cant seem to do good on the CFAT. Im not to good at tests and i can get  a good night sleep, a good morning meal and also study but when it gets down to it I just seem to go blank and screw it up!

I really would like to make the Canadian forces a career and I just cant find an in. So my question is to any of the Directing staff or experienced recuriting staff is there anything I can do? for example a waiver.

Thanks for you time. I am not stupid i am educated I do currently have my private pilots license. Im just not good at tests! Currently I work on the oil rigs and I just want to do what i always wanted to be....
A Solider!


----------



## ThatsLife

Thanks Nitz, you're the only one that gave me an answer without hostility  

As for the rest...This is a recruiting forum, where you ask questions; even the stupid ones should be answered.  I swear the second I ask a question I have 8 guys on me; "USE THE SEARCH BUTTON!!  OMG YOU IDIOT! OUT OF WHOS WOMB DID YOU ESCAPE FROM!? ARE YOU STUPID!?"   I'm just asking questions.

I'm going Infantry...just infantry. And I was curious. That's all. Sorry if that's too much to ask for.

Out of the honest questions i've asked, i've got nothing but hostile responses from everyone.


----------



## Gramps

You will find a lot of hostility here for almost any question you ask. Some people think that everyone should know as much as they do (or in many cases as little as they really know) about the CF. There seem to be a few people that will give you a straight answer though, you just have to wade through the bulls**it to get to it.


----------



## PPCLI MCpl

No disrespect, but if someone can't perform on the CFAT due to stress issues, I would be forced to question their ability to perform under other stressors like those encountered during basic training and on deployment.

Obviously you are familiar with the content of the CFAT.   I would recommend you try various methods of study.   The internet is an excellent tool and offers several sample tests, in particular vocab, spacial ability, problem solving and math. 

Here are a couple of sites I used when I last took the CFAT:

http://www.math.com/
http://www.vocabulary.com/
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/aptitude_test_e.aspx

Good Luck


----------



## DEVES

The problem isn't stress at all, sorry I didn't really specify what my problem is. I just haven't done good on the numerical ability part of the CFAT. I do good on everything else. I am going to study some more math, I just dint see how me doing not to well on the math section would make me fail?

Anyways I am fully aware of all of the resources available to me to prepare Just wondering if there is if any way to get a waiver on if I do not do very well on the numerical ability section of the test!

Thx again.

Also thx Mcpl PPCLI for your input....its appreciated!


----------



## mdh

Thatslife,

The general concensus on the CFAT problem solving section is that you ought to have at least grade 10 level math - that means addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, fractions and decimals. Basic algebra is important too. Pay attention to word problems and number sequences.   If you have trouble with math - go find a tutor - it can make a huge difference especially if you don't have a lot of time to prepare by taking a course. There are links to other tests if you use the search function under the CFAT topic in recruiting. I suspect posters get sensitive about the CFAT because they don't want to give any advantage to someone by revealing too much information; it's all about maintaining a level playing field. 

mdh


----------



## LordOsborne

i hate to say it, but since it is a multiple choice test, there's always the option of guessing.

or, do what i did- i'm not the smartest guy, mathematically-speaking, so i did what i could to speed up my math questions.
usually two of the four answers are easily identifiable as wrong.. all i did was plug in one of the two solutions into the equation and solved it backwards. 

end result? when i finished my CFAT, i was told that i had scored high on everything and was open to any CF career (barring, of course, medical screening)


----------



## ThatsLife

Thank you guys for the responses, these ones actually helped me out alot  

Looks like i'm going to have to brush up on abit of Math. But i'm in Math Essentials. They don't teach the same curriculum as the regular Math, that's why I was alittle worried and asked the question.

 :skull:


----------



## Pieman

ThatsLife,

Practice a little with this test:
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm

It is a good idea to do a search on this forum for 'practice tests' etc. CFAT math questions have been brought up numerous times, and lots of good advice was given. So take the time to locate it and read through.

Pieman


----------



## Pieman

Derek Eves, 

Take this advice to heart: The key to learning math is practice and repetition. 

So spend a lot of time doing a lot of problems before going to write your test. I don't mean the night before either, I mean start doing some problems each night for one hour * two or three weeks * before your test. I mean it. If you do that, then you should not have any problem doing very well on the math section of your test. And you will be better with basic math overall.

I don't know about a waiver. I have read on this board of cases where someone failed the CFAT a number of times, and had to go through a process to be able to write the test again. Don't get yourself in that position, study up, and pass it this next time.

Pieman


----------



## DEVES

I guess after the first time I should have studied alot more. I did study some but not enough to pass I guess. I'm going to do just that. I have found a few good sites for math. I'm going to also get a tutor.

The first time I did the test I was going on vacation the same day and I also was parked on a meter that was only two hour limit. Bad idea, also got a nice ticket that day for that one. Second time I was pretty anxious. I have called the recruiting center here in Edmonton to get my file transfered from Calgary. They said it was going to take a week. 

Do you think its a good idea to set up a date in the next 3 to 4 weeks and study my butt off or what?
Anyways thx again!

Time To Go Do Some MATH!!!!!!


----------



## Pieman

> Do you think its a good idea to set up a date in the next 3 to 4 weeks and study my butt off or what?


Sounds like a good idea to me  Study hard, it will pay off. If the test date starts to approach and you don't feel confident then call and delay it. But really, it is not that hard and you should be able to get the hang of it by that time.


----------



## 48Highlander

Gramps said:
			
		

> You will find a lot of hostility here for almost any question you ask. Some people think that everyone should know as much as they do (or in many cases as little as they really know) about the CF. There seem to be a few people that will give you a straight answer though, you just have to wade through the bulls**it to get to it.now,



And "some people" seem to think that common sense is a gift that only the elite posses, and is beyond the reach of the mortal man.

"what happens if I do bad on the test" is not a question that requires in-depth knowledge of the CF.  I guess maybe I'm a genius since I never needed to ask things like "what colour socks should I wear" or "what brand of toothpaste sould I bring to basic".  I somehow made do on my own.  I'd assume that since a grade 10 education is required to join, any succesfull candidate would also be aware of what happens when you do poorly on a test, but I guess not.


----------



## ThatsLife

48Highlander said:
			
		

> And "some people" seem to think that common sense is a gift that only the elite posses, and is beyond the reach of the mortal man.
> 
> "what happens if I do bad on the test" is not a question that requires in-depth knowledge of the CF.  I guess maybe I'm a genius since I never needed to ask things like "what colour socks should I wear" or "what brand of toothpaste sould I bring to basic".  I somehow made do on my own.  I'd assume that since a grade 10 education is required to join, any succesfull candidate would also be aware of what happens when you do poorly on a test, but I guess not.



I'm not even going to bother. You totally interpretated everything wrong. I never asked " what happens if i fail a test?"  If YOU had any *Common sense*, you would understand that i'm trying to ask "Does doing poorly on the arithmetic section affect your chances of being in the Infantry.

After reading that...I fear for the future of society.


----------



## 48Highlander

ThatsLife said:
			
		

> I'm not even going to bother. You totally interpretated everything wrong. I never asked " what happens if i fail a test?"   If YOU had any *Common sense*, you would understand that i'm trying to ask "Does doing poorly on the arithmetic section affect your chances of being in the Infantry.
> 
> After reading that...I fear for the future of society.



Your poor phrasing is my fault eh?  Good one.  I'd love to be there when you try to explain to your Section Commander that it's his fault you didn't shave.  Maybe you should work on your english in addition to math?


----------



## ThatsLife

Picking out little mistakes when you have nothing better to do. I really hope you're not a soldier.


----------



## RossF

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> Not true exactly, you may have you selection of trades limited, but a poor showing on the math side will not automatically eliminate you. Oh and don't worry, this is the hardest part of the math;
> 
> Formal Integral Definition:
> f(x) dx = lim (d -> 0)   (k=1..n) f(X(k)) (x(k) - x(k-1)) when...
> 
> a = x0 < x1 < x2 < ... < xn = b
> d = max (x1-x0, x2-x1, ... , xn - x(n-1))
> x(k-1) <= X(k) <= x(k)        k = 1, 2, ... , n
> F '(x) dx = F(b) - F(a) (Fundamental Theorem for integrals of derivatives)   ;D



True true, my response WAS vague.


----------



## tannerthehammer

I bought a really great simple math book because I'm not the greatest at math and it helped me alot:

Everyday Math
by Pete Reinert
Published by Made E-Z Books

Got it at a Coles books store...It gives you short cuts and makes math alot easier....I would totally reccommend this for you....


----------



## ThatsLife

That's something they never taught us on the over head in math class  ;D

Thanks for the replies guys, you've been a great help, even the guys that were acting like jerks (not mentioning any names *cough* 48Highlander *cough*)  are giving me a taste of my own medicine. Sorry about the problems before hand. I'll lighten up.

I'd like to apologize for whatever I did before to 48Highlander.


----------



## kincanucks

The only way you are going to get to write the CFAT again is if you significantly improve your educational level to demonstrate learning ability/potential such as obtain an university degree or college diploma that is applicable to the occupation you want to join.  For example: an applicable degree to an officer occupation or a college diploma that relates to a NCM occupation, an example of this would be an Electronics Technician diploma and apply for FCS Technician.

No other way, that is it and since you only want to go Infantry I would say that you are SOL.  Sorry.


----------



## kincanucks

Cup of tea?


----------



## aesop081

gravyboat said:
			
		

> I also have to work on my math. It's been 11 years since my apptitude testing and if I am going to have an OT denied to me I want my trade to do it not my math skills.



Would you be trying for AESOp by any chance ?  If so PM me, i'll give you the lowdown on the math required.


----------



## aesop081

gravyboat said:
			
		

> Mind reader eh....



Lets see...you are NCIOP right ? what else could it be  ;D


----------



## ThatsLife

Righteo


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Gramps said:
			
		

> You will find a lot of hostility here for almost any question you ask. Some people think that everyone should know as much as they do (or in many cases as little as they really know) about the CF. There seem to be a few people that will give you a straight answer though, you just have to wade through the bulls**it to get to it.



I disagree with you there. Questions that get asked over and over again will get less then a friendly response as will questions that expect others to do the research for them. There was an FAQ that one of our Mods went to great trouble to put together. Some of the questions asked is evident that these people have not taken the time to even read it. So yes people get testy. Deal with it.


----------



## aesop081

ThatsLife said:
			
		

> Picking out little mistakes when you have nothing better to do. I really hope you're not a soldier.



With your attitude i hope you never become one........and if you do i pary you never work for me!

Your YIM adress is funny.........you know the army isnt like counterstrike right  :


----------



## ThatsLife

Why does having Counter_terrorist_dude007 as my screen automatically make me someone who thinks Counter-Strike is like the army? I would like to know where you gathered up your intel.

That screen name was made years ago when I did play counter-strike. You're doing the same thing as 48Highlander was. Except now, you're putting words in my mouth.

And that wraps up my point.

I've done nothing to you, nor did I do anything to 48Highlander from the beginning. Look for yourself. I really hope this isn't what they mean when they say the Canadian army is about 'team work' because you guys are doing a damn good job at 'teaming' up on me.


----------



## ThatsLife

I suppose if my screenname was "Star_Wars_Dude007" you would say:

You know the army isn't like Star Wars, right?  :



I already apologized to 48Highlander in a message yesterday, whether he accepts it or not I know I acted like an idiot for saying "I really hope you're not a real soldier," but you have to see it from my point of view. You ask a question, and you have 238904 guys on you calling you stupid for asking a question.


----------



## NavComm

Pieman said:
			
		

> ThatsLife,
> 
> Practice a little with this test:
> http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm
> 
> It is a good idea to do a search on this forum for 'practice tests' etc. CFAT math questions have been brought up numerous times, and lots of good advice was given. So take the time to locate it and read through.
> 
> Pieman



That's a great answer Pieman. My recruiter sent me a link to a practice test(maybe it was that one). Unfortunately I didn't receive it until the day after I took the test! I thought the link he sent me was from the CF recruiting site and I didn't save it. He's away somewhere now so when I get a chance to talk to him again I'll see if he still has it and post it on this board somewhere.

What I did do before my test was search the internet for 'aptitude test' and tried all kinds of them. I also got a few coworkers to take them too, just so I could compare my results. You might also try your local library, or ask at school to be given a few aptitude tests for practice.

Good luck ThatsLife.


----------



## aesop081

ThatsLife said:
			
		

> I suppose if my screenname was "Star_Wars_Dude007" you would say:
> 
> You know the army isn't like Star Wars, right?   :
> 
> 
> 
> I already apologized to 48Highlander in a message yesterday, whether he accepts it or not I know I acted like an idiot for saying "I really hope you're not a real soldier," but you have to see it from my point of view. You ask a question, and you have 238904 guys on you calling you stupid for asking a question.



And i submit to you that a fair portion of the "238904" guys have seen the same question asked over and over troughout the years.   I would also submit that most of those people know that there is a FAQ section and they know how to use the search function on this site. At any rate, good luck with the CFAT.

BTW...i've been in this buisness for a long time.....It's not just some word i saw on a recruiting ad, i live it everyday....I don't need a lecture on teamwork from you.


----------



## ThatsLife

Thank you NavComm, I appreciate that  


And for aeso, I apologize to you aswell. I have used the search function but sometimes I don't see my question answered. Which is why I ask them.

It seems everytime I apologize to someone, someone else ruins it for me. But i'll try and holster my atittude when I get into defense mode.


----------



## aesop081

I feel a lock comming on......


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

> I feel a lock comming on......



LOL psychic too


----------



## codeblue

seeing that i faild the (cfat)math test, when i return to redo the test must i complete all 3 tests or just what i faild??


----------



## kincanucks

codeblue said:
			
		

> seeing that i faild the (cfat)math test, when i return to redo the test must i complete all 3 tests or just what i faild??



That would be the entire test.


----------



## kincanucks

Intelligere said:
			
		

> That is not true.   "Second rewrites" (third attempts at CFAT) have to be auhorized by NDHQ, though.



While subsequent attempts are possible there are certain criterion to be met such as significantly improving education level or possessing relevant education/skills directly related to the occupation requested before any waivers will be requested.   Therefore, it is not easy and it may not be possible for all applicants.


----------



## DEVES

Heres what I think. I think that alot of people are very hard working and skilled in many things and would probably be really awesome in the military. Yes there is the CFAT and its there for a good reason. It could be the matter of a platoon of men from living and dieing(Counting ammunition etc.) Theres a thousand things that you could use math and problem solving in. Some people are skilled in it and some are not. 

Somethings are not used very often for example 1,2,3,4 whats the next number of the sequence?
I don't think many people use this every day! Alto of this test you don't see on everyday occurrences. 
What year was this test writed and how often do they check these test. Or do they ever get feedback from people that wrote the test?

I know that alot of people do not pass this test, but do they ever get any feedback except to study more form recruiters. Hey Kincanucks you might be able to answer this one!

I might be overseeing something I'm not perfect but when a person comes in to do the CFAT there not coming in for something to do on there day off there coming in because they want to be part of the defence of Canada and be a role model   for others . I think that a recruiter could be more helpful and give some of these people a chance as they deserve and tell them what they need to work on. Not just "YOU NEED TO STUDY MATH" what is that. Is it problem solving, fractions, addition, etc.

Just a thought.

Everyone has there right to there own views heres mine. Oh and I would like to say I do admire all of the hard work recruiters do everyday. You guys do have time to deal with lowlifes but not everyone is one. But just remember your playing with somebody's future. Thats all !


----------



## aesop081

Derek Eves said:
			
		

> Heres what I think. I think that alot of people are very hard working and skilled in many things and would probably be really awesome in the military. Yes there is the CFAT and its there for a good reason. It could be the matter of a platoon of men from living and dieing(Counting ammunition etc.) Theres a thousand things that you could use math and problem solving in. Some people are skilled in it and some are not.
> 
> Somethings are not used very often for example 1,2,3,4 whats the next number of the sequence?
> I don't think many people use this every day! Alto of this test you don't see on everyday occurrences.
> What year was this test writed and how often do they check these test. Or do they ever get feedback from people that wrote the test?
> 
> I know that alot of people do not pass this test, but do they ever get any feedback except to study more form recruiters. Hey Kincanucks you might be able to answer this one!
> 
> I might be overseeing something I'm not perfect but when a person comes in to do the CFAT there not coming in for something to do on there day off there coming in because they want to be part of the defence of Canada and be a role model   for others . I think that a recruiter could be more helpful and give some of these people a chance as they deserve and tell them what they need to work on. Not just "YOU NEED TO STUDY MATH" what is that. Is it problem solving, fractions, addition, etc.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Everyone has there right to there own views heres mine. Oh and I would like to say I do admire all of the hard work recruiters do everyday. You guys do have time to deal with lowlifes but not everyone is one. But just remember your playing with somebody's future. Thats all !



I cant beleive that this thread got so long and that there are so many people who feel violated by the CFAT.   If you think the test is hard now, you should see what it was a little over 10 years ago.   

For Derek:

The recruiters are playing with someone's future ?   I got news for you, they are playing with mine too !   I hope that they are doing the best to recruit people that are suitable for military service to put besides me.   I case you havent heard, joining the military is not a right guaranteed to you by the charter.if you think that knowing what number comes nest in a sequence is something not used every day, come to my trade, you'll change your mind rather quickly. As far as telling people who fail what they need to work on, what do you want recruiters to do, take them by the hand and tell them " ok..you need to study what number comes right after 2,4,6'  shall we hold them by the hand next time they write it ?............those people have just written the test and failed, they know what to study for next time !

You gave your opinion, now here's mine : If you can't pass something as simple as the CFAT.......you need to reconsider you choice of career because its only gonna get more complicated.....trust me on that one.


----------



## kincanucks

aesop081 said:
			
		

> I cant beleive that this thread got so long and that there are so many people who feel violated by the CFAT.   If you think the test is hard now, you should see what it was a little over 10 years ago.
> 
> For Derek:
> 
> The recruiters are playing with someone's future ?   I got news for you, they are playing with mine too !   I hope that they are doing the best to recruit people that are suitable for military service to put besides me.   I case you havent heard, joining the military is not a right guaranteed to you by the charter.if you think that knowing what number comes nest in a sequence is something not used every day, come to my trade, you'll change your mind rather quickly. As far as telling people who fail what they need to work on, what do you want recruiters to do, take them by the hand and tell them " ok..you need to study what number comes right after 2,4,6'   shall we hold them by the hand next time they write it ?............those people have just written the test and failed, they know what to study for next time !
> 
> You gave your opinion, now here's mine : If you can't pass something as simple as the CFAT.......you need to reconsider you choice of career because its only gonna get more complicated.....trust me on that one.



That will get you a big Roger Out from me.  Well said.


----------



## Copper_Sunrise

Keep in mind there is an english portion to the CFAT so before you want to bash all the people that don't speak good english, in your opinion, they still passed the CFAT.


----------



## aesop081

Derek Eves said:
			
		

> Aesop081 now what trade are you in.




I was a combat engineer for 11 years and now i am an............*AESOP* !!!!     


I guess you couldn't figure that one out.

The CFAT is already as easy as it should get.   The solution to our manning shortfalls does not lie in reducing our standards for recruiting.   Those of us familiar with the training system have seen where that got us.




			
				BeadWindow said:
			
		

> You'd much rather whine about how unfair life is.




And that , ladies and gents, is where the problem is ! The CFAT used to have cutaway drawings of internal combustion engines and you had to name the parts. There were electronics questions, and more questions about this and that.  But then THAT was deemed too hard so now we have the CFAT of today.  Now THAT is deemed to hard by some people.  Times don't change.

NAVCAN has an aptitude test that people have to write when they apply to become air traffic controlers.  They don't tell you whats on it either.  You fail the test...you don't go on in the process.  Do you think that if they were short people they should reduce their standards for hiring ?


----------



## aesop081

Derek Eves said:
			
		

> Funny thing is I have my private pilots licences and work on engines everyday as I am a mechanic. And I didn't pass the Cfat due to math. You must think your the crap NOW huh.
> Sorry I don't know every abbreviation for each trade!
> 
> Why are you such a smart ***?So if you think your better because you know what parts on an internal combustion engine. Then you have problems.Your not better than everyone you know .



This is the part where you prove that you are just whining because you were denied something. I have my PPL as well so don't lecture me with that.  I passed the CFAT way back then and i passed it again last year.  My math is fine..has to be to be in this trade. I looked at your profile and since you have zero experience i take your comments very lightly.  Do i think i'm better than everyone else...of course not ! But hey, then again i'm here and you are not.  Now go home, work on your math and try again.  This thread isnt supposed to be a flame war so i'm not going to waste anymore time on you and you "i'm a victim" attitude.  You are a private pilot and you can't do math ? remind me never to fly with you...you know time/speed distance, fuel consumption, track corrections, instrument navigation......ya, i bet you're real good   :


----------



## c4th

aesop081 said:
			
		

> And that , ladies and gents, is where the problem is ! The CFAT used to have cutaway drawings of internal combustion engines and you had to name the parts. There were electronics questions, and more questions about this and that.   But then THAT was deemed too hard so now we have the CFAT of today.   Now THAT is deemed to hard by some people.   Times don't change.



I wrote my first CFAT in 1992 and it was a basic IQ test (with pencil and paper!) and I didn't even get to the last 4 or 5 questions.   I still passed.   I heard about the internal combustion questions from younger soldiers.   I don't really know how knowing small engines or electrical schematics effectively measure appaptitude anyone applying for any trade from 011 crewman to Direct Entry Medical Officer except maybe Padres.   I suspect that the wing-nuts at CFRG also wondered the same thing and reinstated the IQ test but now on computer.   It seemed to be easier now but alas I might be older and wiser even if I couldn't remember fractions.

If you failed look up   IQ tests or MENSA on the internet and practice.   Recognizing and knowing how to solve some of the problems should help.   Time management should also get you most of the way there.   IE: Answer all the questions!   

If you are a dummy you will probably still fail.


----------



## aesop081

i wrote the CFAT in 93 with paper and pencil in hand.  The test was designed to determine what trades you were apt for, hence why there were math questions as well as engine questions and so on.  If you couldnt figure out an engine, maybe you shouldnt be a mechanic and Veh. tech woulddnt be on the list of trades you could do.  Even as a 041 cbt eng i was glad i knew a bit of mechanics as there is alot of things with engines to operate and i suspect that being a 011 wouldnt be any different.  When it comes to math, it is something that applies to alot of trades, even more so now a days with all the high tech gucci stuff we have to do our jobs.

The simple fact remains that whatever they use for an apptitude test, there will always be some whiny individual who will feel cheated out of what they perceive as their god given right.  The CFAT today is not difficult...AT ALL ! Specialy the math.  On my aesop  course we were doing trigonometry and algebra and logarithms...if you couldnt do basic fractions for the CFAT, how the hell do you expect to make it later on...it could be you in my position !

Its time to grow up and take responsability for your actions.  Its not the test that failed you...you failed yourself.


----------



## Cloud Cover

c4th said:
			
		

> If you failed look up   IQ tests or MENSA on the internet and practice.   Recognizing and knowing how to solve some of the problems should help.   Time management should also get you most of the way there.   IE: Answer all the questions!



I think C4th has stated an example of some really good advice!!! 

You can also buy those tests at bookstores, especially college and unversity bookstores. Another helpful tip might be to audit a Logic class at university, or perhaps some colleges. Just do the exercises they go through. Logic courses are generally most beneficial for LSAT tests, and if one does well on that type of test, the CFAT should be snap. I also understand the practice firefighters exams are pretty useful.

Bottom line .... practice, study, practice, study, practice, study, practice, study .... get into a routine, stick with it and write the exams when you are confident. Going in cold again is not a good idea if you already have 1 failure of any sort racked up.    And for goodness sakes, stay with your exercise routine .. healthy mind/body etc ... 

I'll go out on a limb here and offer the supposition that recruiters like seeing applicants who are clean, bright, fit, energetic, and self disciplined before they even walk in the CFRC door.


----------



## c4th

This is a good site for anyone interested in their IQ:  http://www.highiqsociety.com/

Subscribe to the www.dictionary.com word a day e-mail.  Vocabulary is about a third of the CFAT if I remember correctly. I think I was e-mailed one of the word's on the CFAT the week before I wrote it.  Nice luck eh?  Regular reading of anything other than the Toronto Sun will help in this area.  Reading the Toronto Sun will probably reduce your CFAT score by 15%.


----------



## Fry

from what I can gather, basic addition, subtraction, mult/division, basic algebra, patterns, crap like that? Basically if one is able to complete university level calculus courses, then the CFAT shouldn't be a problem?


----------



## aesop081

Fry said:
			
		

> from what I can gather, basic addition, subtraction, mult/division, basic algebra, patterns, crap like that? Basically if one is able to complete university level calculus courses, then the CFAT shouldn't be a problem?



You should be fine.   What i was getting at earlier is that people who think the CFAT is hard and think some of the questions dont apply to military service will be in for a shock.   Its fine and dandy to be able to do basic math now but what happens to these guys when the want to remuster to GEO tech, AESOP and the like where math skills beyond 2 + 2 are required ?   The main point that i was trying to make was that if the CFAT was difficult for someone..they need to seriously re-evaluate hwat their next move is going to be.   The CFAT is only an APTITUDE test........the skills required to do good on it are not going to get you trough a 20 year career, no matter what MOC you chose.


----------



## c4th

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Its fine and dandy to be able to do basic math now but what happens to these guys when the want to remuster to GEO tech, AESOP



Try teaching declination to recruits who cannot wrap their heads around 60 minutes in a degree and the multiplication of less than whole numbers.


----------



## aesop081

c4th said:
			
		

> Try teaching declination to recruits who cannot wrap their heads around 60 minutes in a degree and the multiplication of less than whole numbers.



I know what you mean...........but it proves my point very well i think.  Kinda sad actualy...


----------



## neuromancer

Here is a link to some simple problems, can anyone 
tell me if the CFAT is much harder than these?

http://math.com/cgibin/mathf_sp.pl

Does the CFAT include any graphing or geometry?


----------



## kincanucks

neuromancer said:
			
		

> Here is a link to some simple problems, can anyone
> tell me if the CFAT is much harder than these?
> 
> http://math.com/cgibin/mathf_sp.pl
> 
> Does the CFAT include any graphing or geometry?



Since these are invisible I would say they would be much harder.  No, the CFAT does not include graphing or geometry.  You had better check out the recruiting FAQs on the CFAT.


----------



## Fry

I know we aren't suposed to discuss the exam question content, so I won't. I found the exam freakishly easy, despite how hard I thought it was.... If you can't pass this test, then you definately shouldn't be in the forces, lol... Very easy indeed.


----------



## x-grunt

FanjoyAJ said:
			
		

> Don't feel bad... After I took the CFAT, I was told that the best I could do in the military was a cook... I was rather insulted.


One of the trades I most respect are the cooks. Unsung heroes, in my books. What in heck would we do without them? Damn fine job potential once released, too.

Nonetheless, if you get a GED preparation book (go to any bookstore, about $20) and take the math and english pre-tests. Brush up on the areas you are weak until you get a passing grade in the manual. You'll ace the CFAT for math and language skills.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Our CF cooks have garnered some of the most prestigous awards in the international culinary field. They are second to none and take pride in what they do. Every trade in the CF is just as important as the next.


----------



## DEVES

Hey I had the same problem,
I took the CFAT and failed for the trade I wanted and was told that I could be a Cook or a Steward. 
I decided not to take that route and to try the CFAT again. 
I have Studied my ass of and Have been getting tutored 3 times a week for the last three months.
I'm not too good at math and thats all my problem was. English no prob and Spatial ability no porb. Just the Numerical ability. I feel 100% more positive about taking the test again and im sure I will get into the trade I am applying for. Which is Infantry. 
My suggestion to everyone is to find a good tutor and to just go through the basics ( adding and subtracting, fractions, number sequences.)

Another really good way to study would be to pick up these couple books from chapters or indigo books.

1. How To Win At Aptitude  Tests Vol 1 and 2 
2.Basic Mathematics by the company Teach Yourself.
3.Mathematics made simple by Thomas Cusick.

For me just going over this stuff often makes it seem easy. 

Good luck all those Aptitude test takers.

Wish me luck!


----------



## corrinne

hi everyone Im new to this site, and was hoping for some advice, I applied to the military when I was 18, and did poorly on my CFAT, the math part and problem solviing, I had no idea what to do, they told me I could be a cook or a steward, and I was very upset, and it discouraged me from going any farther,mostly because my father is in the combat arms, and he was not very happy about the out come of my testing,  I dropped the idea completely of joining the CF, now at 20 I want to redo my testing, but fear I will fail again, is there anyone who would be willing to help me online studying for the test and maybe some tips on how to gain more upper body strength haha
  ???


----------



## mdh

> hi everyone Im new to this site, and was hoping for some advice, I applied to the military when I was 18, and did poorly on my CFAT, the math part and problem solviing, I had no idea what to do, they told me I could be a cook or a steward, and I was very upset, and it discouraged me from going any farther,mostly because my father is in the combat arms, and he was not very happy about the out come of my testing,   I dropped the idea completely of joining the CF, now at 20 I want to redo my testing, but fear I will fail again, is there anyone who would be willing to help me online studying for the test and maybe some tips on how to gain more upper body strength haha



Corrinne,

Review some of the previous posts on this issue. Quite a few people have difficulty with the math section and if you haven't worked to improve your numeracy chances are you will continue to have trouble with the problem-solving portion of the CFAT.   As noted above, get a tutor or take a course to upgrade your skills - that's really the only way you will improve your math skills. 

Otherwise what's wrong with cook or steward? (It's one way to get into the CF and once into the system you might be able to upgrade your education and move to a different MOC - or you might really enjoy the trade.   )   Most of all talk to the recruiting guys and they will lay out your options. Undoubtedly they will caution you against writing the test unless you are 100 per cent certain you can pass because you only get a one more kick at the can - otherwise you would require permission to re-write IIRC

(But you know, being a navy cookie travelling around the world sounds pretty to me these days   ;D)

cheers and good luck


----------



## canada22

I had my CFAT today and I didn't qualify in the math section for my trade. My english was great but I guess I will have to wait three months before I write again. I can't believe it.


----------



## mdh

> I had my CFAT today and I didn't qualify in the math section for my trade. My english was great but I guess I will have to wait three months before I write again. I can't believe it.



iwanttoserve23,

Look under the "recruiting process" board and scroll down to "Canadian Forces Aptitude Test" there is a lot of advice there on what to do - most of all - forget it, move on, and write the CFAT again once you've improved you math skills,

Cheers, mdh


----------



## DEVES

Oh and to add to that!
I wouldn't take the test again without getting at least a couple of days a week of math. Just go over the basics, + number sequences and problem solving. Just know that they dont expect you to get a hundred percent . Find a family member or anyone that is good at math and can teach you. I had the same problem. 

For me I just haven't done  too much math since school and just forgot just some of the different ways of doing equations. 
AS MDH has pointed out look in "Canadian Forces Aptitude Test" Test section and there is a few good posts on pointers on doing CFAT.

I wouldn't feel to bad. You not passsing the CFAT was just a little kick in the Butt to brush up on your math skills. Just make sure you stick to it right up to your test. 

IT Will Help!

Cheers


----------



## bonitabelle

One thing I know that I did to practice was find some free GED tests on the net and take the tests there - most of the ones that I found will show you the answers and let you know what you got wrong.  

Just thought I'd try to help.


----------



## Bert

Check out this site:

http://www.jobs-emplois.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm

Practice the tests in the time alloted.  If you have trouble with certain questions, get
some help, and practice some more until you can become proficient.  Good luck.


----------



## dk

Here's a few online aptitude tests from the Public Service Commission of Canada. By no means am i saying these are THE questions. I found these the night before my CFAT, so i didn't get a chance to do any of them, but by looking at these tests, i got an idea of what to expect as far as format so it took the surprise out of it, and i was able to just dive in. They are also good practice for the math and other components.

General Competency Tests  Level I      http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct1_test_e.htm
General Competency Tests  Level II     http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_test_e.htm

Graduate Recruitment Test    http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm
Office Skill Test     http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/ost_info_e.htm


----------



## Phoneman

Here is a great site I found to brush up on math skills.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise

I did the tests in each section and studied up on anything I had trouble with. It worked great. I did very well on my CFAT.


----------



## StormTrooper

Just a random question. Does anyone know how long the list of trades would be if someone got 100%? I did my cfat 1.5 years ago, and my list was 2 pages long.


----------



## FITSUMO

mine was 2 pages also, and I know that I messed up at least 2 questions

if you got 100% then wouldn't all the trades appear?

another good resource to passing the test is 
-barrons -spatial relations ( chapters @$28)
-How To Prepare For The Asvab: Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery  (chapters @$28)
-This Is Your Passbook For General Aptitude Test ***** No Returns *** ( chapters $65)

go to chapters .ca and look up general aptitude.

and I am not sure if it has been mentioned but if you go to http://www.military.com/ASVAB

should help.


----------



## Zombie

FITSUMO said:
			
		

> if you got 100% then wouldn't all the trades appear?



It actually says "ALL TRADES" down the side...or something like that, can't remember exactly but it says it in big bold letters down the side of the pages.


----------



## JasonH

Consider it the "Gold star"


----------



## atticus

When I took my test, I took it right before the interview and was told that we wouldn't be told the results as they can be decieving. During my interview I was found sutible for employment but the test was never mentioned. Have they turned from this and have started showing the results of the tests?


----------



## Zombie

atticus said:
			
		

> When I took my test, I took it right before the interview and was told that we wouldn't be told the results as they can be decieving. During my interview I was found sutible for employment but the test was never mentioned. Have they turned from this and have started showing the results of the tests?



They don't give the results, you just get a listing of the trades you qualified for.


----------



## TheMachine

They just told me I qualified for all the trades I applied for.


----------



## Mojo Magnum

Hey guys,
I'm new to this website.  I passed my CFAT just a few weeks ago.  I was fortunate enough to sneak a peak at my mark.  I got 79%.  Thats good enough to qualify for everything.  In my interview I was told that my results were unusual because I demonstrated high marks in all areas.  

I knew goinig in to the test that my math is very week.  I'm thirty four, I haven't seen algebra in a long time.   

So that is the area I studied most for.  To prepare I did an internet search on aptitude tests and took every test I could find.  I also located some basic algebra teachings on line.  It's all free and it's all out there on the internet. There are tests for government workers all over the place.  RCMP, Postal service, local police departments, OPP, American forces etc.

If you really want to pass this test, take some advice from Arnold Schwarzenegger (I know I spelled that wrong).   Arnold had a motto back when he was body building.  He used to say "I would eliminate the question "Could I have done more to prepare".   If you can honestly say to yourself that you are as prepared as you could possibly be, then you can be confident that you will get the mark you deserve.

Mojo.


----------



## TheMachine

Im amazed after all the supportive; detailed cfat posts made, people are still discussing this. Alll the cfat questions are answered here, theres nothing else that can be said unless your told exactly what the questions are! Prepare, and if you arnt ready, wait, I waited and prepared for 3 years from the first day I walked into the office to take the cfat. I dont mean prepare from just reading this topic, prepare from real life work and education. If you dont have that aptitude for the job you applied for, you might fluke out on the cfat but the sense that you should have been doing it beforehand and used to that aptitude for many years already (experience) It will catch up with you when you swear in and get introduced to your teamates that have at Basic and Occupational...


----------



## Q.Y. Ranger

Hi, I'm in the recruiting process right now, and will be scheduling my aptitude test with in the next few days. I'm hoping to get score high enough for armoured recce, and my second choice is infantry. Infantry would be about an extra 45 minutes away though. Would any one happen to know how high I will have to score for each, or how much higher i will have to score for Armoured Recce. Thanks for all your help. 

Mike


----------



## goldman

Sorry i'am new here. I was wondering what happens if you fail the test? Can you redo it? Btw my aptitude test is on the 22nd of this month, i got to admit iam pretty nervous.


----------



## aesop081

goldman said:
			
		

> Sorry i'am new here. I was wondering what happens if you fail the test? Can you redo it? Btw my aptitude test is on the 22nd of this month, i got to admit iam pretty nervous.



Here was your first aptitude test.........and you have failed !

The answer to your question lies in about 10 different places in ths thread alone..nevermind the multitude of other threads that have dealt with this.  READ.....THEN ASK  :


----------



## visitor

I've read a few opinions where people said  re:spatial ability that you either have it or not. Not true, it can be learned, like other abilities. It's just harder because it is a  3 dimensional skill rather than a 2 dimension skill, like most of school work and video games. In the days of yore, kids used to learn spatial ability by playing with blocks, Lego, paper airplanes, etc.  Now they excell at computer simulations. 

 Seriously, get yourself some paper airplane kits or maybe do some origami. Sounds dumb, but  it really helps build those  spatial skills and you will be surprised how often that ability comes in handy in a 3 dimensional world.


----------



## Deepblue

Hello, my name is Philippe and I want to enter the infantry reserves.

I took the CFAT about two months ago, when the test was finished the sergeant supervising our test called out the names of about 4/5 of the group and asked them to follow him back to the reception area. When the sergeant came back he told us not to worry about our test because the remaining people had all passed the CFAT and were thus qualified for their military job.

On the drug use questionnaire, I wrote that I consumed marijuana about 7 months before the test date. I am not a substance abuser nor have I ever taken any hard drugs.

The remaining people in the room were asked to follow him back to the reception area and he then told us he would call us back.

Should I be worried about not receiving anything after 2 months?

Thank you


----------



## beach_bum

I have to admit I'm a little confused by your post.  When you went back to the reception area you were just told you would be called and that was it?  Have you phoned the recruiting centre since?


----------



## Pieman

> Should I be worried about not receiving anything after 2 months?


When you write your CFAT, you usually fill out your Enhanced Reliability check along with other paperwork. It is possible they are waiting for that information to come back. Either way, you should phone CFRC and check in on the status of your file at regular intervals. I contact CFRC at least once a month. Give them a call, they will tell you what is happening with your application.


----------



## Deepblue

beach_bum said:
			
		

> I have to admit I'm a little confused by your post.  When you went back to the reception area you were just told you would be called and that was it?  Have you phoned the recruiting centre since?



The sergeant told us a corporal would be there shortly to speak with us, after 5 minutes the sergeant came back to tell us the corporal was unavailable right now and that we were free to leave. Before leaving, he told  us that the recruitement office would call each of us at home.


----------



## cgyflames01

CALL THEM!! There are more tests to follow. I waited 3 days. 2 months is way to long.


----------



## Dakota

Yes call the RC. At this stage you are not being a pain following up. Most of us were finished all the testing within a week to two weeks. I have not heard of waiting 2 months to finish the initial testing, but anything is possible. You hope it doesn't happen to you, but things can get missed, so give them a call and find out what your status is.

Good luck.


----------



## NavComm

Yes, I echo what others have said. Call the recruiting office. I was told immediately after my test that I had qualified for the R277 (NavComm) and my PT test was scheduled right then. My interview and medical were scheduled immediately following the PT test.

The only real wait I had was when my files were sent to Borden for the final approval. Borden is woefully understaffed in this area and it takes quite some time (3 - 6 weeks I was told) to get the word back.

Good luck and be persistent.


----------



## NavComm

Fry said:
			
		

> They don't tell you what your score is on the CFAT, well at least they didn't when I wrote it.



During my interview I was told I scored 100% on the verbal skills portion of my test. Some others that I know were told some of their results too. So I think it's up to your interviewer.

I wasn't curiious enough to ask what my other scores were but I'm sure if I had asked I would have been told. All I know is that I passed it with a pretty good score because the MOC I applied for requires a good mark.

You definately CAN study for an aptitude test. You know how many components there are  to the test, that is no secret. Just study, try other online tests and/or tests through your local highschool or library. These will prepare you by showing your weak areas and what you need to study to pass with the highest level possible for you.

I think the best advice I received prior to my test was this: get plenty of rest and have a good breakfast before the test.

Of course by the morning of the test it's too late to start worrying that you didn't study. Like all things in life, prior preparation and planning are the best ways to avoid disaster.

I know it's been said ad nauseum here but to re-iterate: The higher you score on the aptitude test, the more flexibilty in choice of trades you will have. So, go ahead and study.


----------



## x-grunt

I say call and see what's up. Keep calling. Be polite and respectful but be a "squeeky wheel." 

In some circumstances you may have to wait for your next tests - as an example I've been scheduled for my medical and interview finally after waiting nearly _6 months _ after my CFAT. 

But as I said, this is exceptional (previous service record problem). However I did have to call and remind then I was still waiting.


----------



## alexpb

Hello, i have a quick question.

It may have been answered somewhere else, but i did try looking but couldn't find it.

To get into infantry, what is the school you need to get on the CFAT?

Thanks


----------



## kincanucks

"school"????

What does it matter what score you need?  Write the test and do the best you can do.  If you know what score you need will you stop when you think you have it?


----------



## Deepblue

Thanks everyone.

Tommorow, I will go to the recruitement office to check things out.


----------



## Fry

alex


When you write the test, you don't know anything regarding the test, or what you need to score to get certain trades. They only tell you if you've did well enough to get certain trade(s) that you've applied for.


----------



## Q.Y. Ranger

Well, I've scheduled my aptitude test for Sept 6, and I'm extremely nervous. I have a few books which have math and things of that nature in them, such as Fire Fighter Exam preparation books. But thats only one section of the CFAT. I know that the spacial part of the test isn't as easy to study for, but i have an IQ test book, which has patterns and that sort of thing. But I'm not to sure how i can study for the Verbal part of the CFAT. Should i just read a lot, or is there anything else i can do? If any one could help me with this, that would be great! 

Thanks in Advance,

Mike


----------



## NavComm

M Sparks, If you have a pretty good command of the english language you don't need to worry about the grammar part of the test. I'm pretty sure you can find similar types of tests online or at schools and libraries. It's like any other aptitude test for verbal skills. Some people will find it more challenging than others but overall it's just a yard stick for the cf to see where your strengths and weaknesses lie.

Good luck with the test.


----------



## tig3r

I just recently took the CFAT and this is my advice for others who are going to take it:

First of all, I would like to point out that the practice questions you have found in your CF information package show the format of the questions and the format is the exact same on the test. However, the level of difficulty on the test is much more and should not be compared to the practice questions. Personally, I found the verbal part to be very hard, just because I found out that my vocabulary is not as extensive as I thought it was. I would suggest that there is no point in studying for the verbal part because there is no way your going to know what questions are going to come up, and i dont suggest memorizing the dictionary. I found that the main problem I had with the spatial ability test was the time. In these kind of questions, you tend to spend more time on one question without even realizing it because you are trying to find the best answer, and this leads to a shortage of time. So please watch the time and pace yourself accordingly. I found the problem solving to be very easy (just because mathematics was one of my strongest subjects) and finished about 5 minutes early, but I could easily see this section being VERY hard for some people. So please do not take it lightly because of what I have said. I would suggest reviewing some fundamental topics of mathematics such as estimating, adding, subtracting, multiplyng and dividing large numbers, (manually, cuz there is no calculator), the concept of interest, taxes, etc...

Overall, I was surprised by the level of difficulty of the test, because I was not aware of this forum and walked into the test assuming I was going to ace all parts of the test. I did end up qualifying for all the trades though, so I was happy. But for those who havent taken it yet..no pressure...


----------



## Q.Y. Ranger

I've been taking some on-line aptitude tests (one of which the recruiter I'm dealing with sent me) and i have discovered that my math is a lot better then i had previously anticipated. But i have also found out that my vocabulary isn't as great as i thought. On the CFAT, out of the 10 questions, are they all defining words, or picking synonyms, or is there something else in there as well. The link that the recruiter sent me is http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_test_e.htm . If anyone would be able to check this out (who has already taken the CFAT), and let me know if the questions are similar in style and difficulty, that would be great. I have until Sept 6 to make an improvement in this section of the test. Thanks for everyones help. 

Mike


----------



## c4th

M. Sparks said:
			
		

> The link that the recruiter sent me is http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_test_e.htm . If anyone would be able to check this out (who has already taken the CFAT), and let me know if ....



Lets have a lesson in deductive reasoning.  The recruiter, whose job it is to recruit you sent you a link that he thought may be beneficial to you, and assist in your upcoming CFAT.  When you click on the link, the first line says:  Public Service Commission of Canada, which just happens to be a department in the federal government, essentially the same employer you are applying to.  The second thing that jumps out at me anyway is:  General Competency Test: Level 2 Practice Test.

If you read the thread or at worst listened to the recruiter you will have discovered that the test consists of vocabulary, basic arithmetic/math, spatial and logic problem solving.  Questions that are well represented in the link provided by you recruiter whose job is to recruit you.

Now to beat the horse dead.   The recruiter whose job it is to recruit you is trying to help you.  The government that posted the test spends a ridiculous amount of money to hire employees, so it is also trying to help you.  Since you are bent on doubting the recruiter who has met you and obviously thinks you are not a complete waste of his time, and you doubt your ability to pass the test, I will offer this, which has been offered many times on this thread and at the CFRC before.  The aptitude test measures aptitude.  You either have it or you don't.  If you are thick now you will still be thick in two weeks.  No amount of studying is going to change that.  You can prepare or brush up on the types of questions being asked, which will be of value particularly to those who have been out of school for a number of years rotting their brains in various civilian careers.  However, if you are of at least ballpark average intelligence the worst thing you can do is walk into the testing office with sweaty palms and wrapped around the axle about the upcoming test.  If the test were hard, the CF would be much smaller, and the recruiter would probably be an ATM.

As a fellow college student once said to me before a final exam: "An empty head is better than a head full of sh*t"

Trust yourself, and get some sleep.


----------



## Springroll

I just posted this link under the thread I started.

The sites that came reccommended bythe CFAT tester are these ones:

http://www.jobs.gc.ca/menu/ui_examinfo_e.htm
http://www.highiqsociety.org/noflash/nonmembers/iqtests.htm
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_test_e.htm


----------



## ChopperHead

Is your eligability based on the CFAT or your actual education what I mean is if say you only have grade 11 and you apply take the CFAT and score high would that be more important then you not having your diploma because obviously you are not dumb and can grasp the material if you get a high score. ok let me try and make this alittle clearer for you in case your getting lost as to what Im asking would a high CFAT score put ahead for a job over over someone with highschool who did not do as well?




Kyle.


----------



## civvy3840

ChopperHead said:
			
		

> Is your eligability based on the CFAT or your actual education what I mean is if say you only have grade 11 and you apply take the CFAT and score high would that be more important then you not having your diploma because obviously you are not dumb and can grasp the material if you get a high score. ok let me try and make this alittle clearer for you in case your getting lost as to what Im asking would a high CFAT score put ahead for a job over over someone with highschool who did not do as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kyle.



From what I gather it does not matter to the CF if you've got a diploma or not. If it did then it would not make sense to recruit 16/17 year-olds.


----------



## NavComm

civvy3840 said:
			
		

> From what I gather it does not matter to the CF if you've got a diploma or not. If it did then it would not make sense to recruit 16/17 year-olds.



I don't think the question was whether or not you can enlist in the CF without a high school diploma. The question, it seems to me is: If you're really stupid but you passed highschool and some other guy thinks he's really smart and he didn't pass highschool but he got a better mark on the CFAT than the guy he thinks is stupid for bothering finishing what he started (his education) then will the stupid guy without the education get a better job in the CF than the stupid guy with the education?

And the answer is.....it depends, maybe the first stupid guy is applying to be a supp tech and the other stupid guy is applying to be NavComm, so they aren't competing for the same stupid job anyways


----------



## SeanPaul_031

To eloborate a bit on what tiger said, you WILL get a few of the easy questions like the ones in your pamphlet and the rest for that series will be difficult.

If youve been paying attention in math class, then the math questions will be easy for you. If youve been out of school for a while then I can see the math probs posing a bit of difficulty...

The language question, like someone said before, Ive youve been speaking English all your life then their shouldnt really be a problem here...Again you cant really study for this as it is something that youve been learning all your life by reading books and speaking fluently.

The spatial questions I found to be very easy, as I have a good spatial sense, however there were 1 or 2 that were extremely eloborate and took a while to figure out. Males in general though have a better spatial sense than women...

The logic/pattern questions I also found to be easy, but again Im naturally good at recognizing patterns...For those who arent, there are a few very easy ones that you will get and the others will take a bit of time to recognize.

My best advice for those taking the test, is if you are stuck on a question or unsure about and answer, move on to the next one as the sub-conscious mind will continue to think about that certain question and when you return to it later, you may have the answer...This works especially well for the number pattern sequence question and this is how I ended up landing the hard ones in this series. 

For the spatial question I would suggest you practice a couple of these online first to get accustomed to them. For the math questions, review the basic formulas in math such as BEDMAS, 
(x + y)(x - y)=xsquared - xy + xy -ysquared, pythageorean theorem...etc all the basic math principles.

And remember dont go into it nervous be calm and relaxed or you wont be able to think straight!


----------



## ChopperHead

Ok maybe Im not really being clear here with what Im asking if you dont have your diploma would getting a high score on the CFAT make up for it. Meaning is the CFAT more important to the military then the diploma. For something like 031 would high CFAT and no diploma put you in a better position for a job offer then someone also applying for 031 that has their diploma but didn't do as well on the CFAT.   ( there's more then one quetion here)



Kyle


----------



## c4th

ChopperHead said:
			
		

> Ok maybe Im not really being clear here with what Im asking if you dont have your diploma would getting a high score on the CFAT make up for it.[/quote}
> 
> Why does it matter?  Apply with the best hand you have. A high school graduate and a drop out are apples and oranges.


----------



## NavComm

I understood the question. I just think it's all moot. The CFAT is to show whether you have the aptitude for the job. The high school diploma opens doors for you that have no relation to how well you performed on the CFAT (or any other aptitude test).

That doesn't mean you will or won't have a great future in your chosen MOC.

If you are worried about whether or not you are competitive, then you should be talking to your recruiter.

It seems to me the answer you want is probably best delivered to you by the recruiter who has met you and knows whether or not you are worrying needlessly or you really have no chance at all against that guy with the diploma.


----------



## R.Jacquel

Ok I just got back from my recruiting centre and was given all the packages for being Infantry Reserve. This test seems WAY to easy, me and my friend actually laughed because it's way to easy. I mean is that really what the test is like or is this just like a lead down the wrong road, making people think its simple so they don't study, then get there and the test is a beast. I'm working out every day and running every day and my test won't be for another year because I'm finishing college then entering, so I know I can do the physical section of it. I'm just worried about bombing the CFAT test. So can anyone tell me if this test example is even close?


----------



## J.R.

From what I have seen on this Board the sample questions do not seem to be nearly as difficult as the questions you will actually face.  I did not take the recruit test, just the Officer test.  However, I would imagine that how difficult one views the test will vary by person.  I have seen on this Board others that mention that they failed the test and others that did very well.  The questions in the package appear to be similar in type to the questions that you would encounter in the real test, only significantly less difficult.  Others will likely give you better information and point you in a direction to find resources to prepare for the test.  Good luck!


----------



## gregorydewolfe

hello, just got back from the cfat "test".  Was told I didn't do well and the only jobs on my list were jobs that anyone would have been offered.  I thought I did really well on the math part since there's only 30 questions but i guess i didnt.  Then I was told that I could re-write in 3 months but even if i did get a high score, log officer is in very high demand and i probably wouldn't have gotten a job in that field anyways since i have no "experience" in that.  I said well that's why im joining, to get experience.   Why they hell did they test me then?  To put me in a job that I can get without a degree?  I can get one of those without joining.  Now I dont know what to do because i majored in marketing and i guess log offers do a lot of finance and accounting which i hate.  Seems like the recruiters will tell you anything.
should i re-write the test knowing that if i do worse the 2nd time, they use that score instead?  Wish I could get an answer key.  I hate general app. tests, they only prove if one can have a good or bad day on a certain day, not if you can do the job.


----------



## gregorydewolfe

they didn't offer me much.  stwd  cook, post clk, rms, sup tech, tfc tech, armour, arty, FD, ARTY AD, INF, CBT ENGR, MSE OP and a few other R jobs, but i want full time.


----------



## gregorydewolfe

and yes i went to university for 5 years and did a double major in marketing and management, but for some reason i cant answer 30 math questions.


----------



## mdh

gregorydewolfe

It's not unusual for people to have trouble on the math part of the test - it was a common occurrence when I was helping out (briefly) in recruiting for our reserve unit - even if you have a degree (especially if you're on the more artistic side of the fence with regard to a major) - so take a deep breath and figure out your next steps.  If you really want to join up work on the math problem solving side - take a course and write the CFAT again. You must meet a certain cut-off score to qualify for officer MOCs - particulary if they are more technical in nature which some log positions are. It's amazing how quickly you can lose math skills. 

Alternatively - there is nothing wrong with working on the NCM side and getting some experience - may not be your first choice, but it depends on how badly you want to serve. 

If you're interested in less "hard" technical officer MOCs such as combat arms - you might be able to apply for a waiver if you have a degree - but you should ask a professional recruiter about how that works in practice.

mdh

ps please be careful about wording with regard to NCM trades - categorizing them as "not much" probably isn't the best way to describe some great MOCs.


----------



## FITSUMO

gregorydewolfe :

Hey I work in research and development and work with math every day, but I still had to review the basic's, because if you do not practice, it goes away, I did lots of studying and it paid off, So what I suggest is to ( don't take this the wrong way, cause I had to do it too), leave your ego at the door and study/review, you know how to do this stuff( you got into university) but you need to work off the cob webs.... I would say if you are not happy then study your butt off and retake and kick A$$.   Just as a side note, the trades you where offered are good trades, but if its not what you are looking for then retake.   I will get the titles of the books that I used and thy helped, will post them later.


----------



## George Wallace

You haven't mentioned having a Degree, but I can assure you that many soldiers in the Cbt Arms (some of the choices given to you) do.  There are many trades in the CF that are rewarding and educational.  Not everyone is an Officer, but many are leaders.  

I am curious, in reading your posts, as to what sort of English you were taught in school.  Years ago when I went to university, there was a problem with many students that were graduating being illiterate.  It seems that that problem still persists.  Not a problem.  In the military, as one advances to higher ranks, starting in the MCpl rank, they will have to write reports and such.  The military does provide extra courses to further ones education.  Do a search of this site as to some of the education options open to CF members.


----------



## gregorydewolfe

ok, i was going to go out and look at the books at chapters, maybe i can find the one's u used.   The book i used was called all the math you'll even need and i thought i was going to, and also did well on the math part, but i was wrong.   The ego isnt the problem.   The problem is that im in shock because i didnt expect score low and also didnt expect that i might have to look at other trades because i thought i already had my mind made up on the trade, but now i dont know.   The trades i was offered might be good i dont know anything about them.   All i know is that my friend (who as in the army for 6 years) told me last week that if cook and firefighter show up on my "list", i didn't do well on the test and that if i have to re-take the test, they use the lastest score, not the highest which might be a problem.


----------



## George Wallace

Friends can be nasty and not always right.


----------



## gregorydewolfe

yeah well actaully he's not really a friend, just a co-worker and he's not even in the army anymore and isnt going back he says.  I guess what im asking is how can i pick a trade that has something to do with my marketing degree and im not gonna be away from my wife all the time.


----------



## Kat Stevens

The trade you want to ask about is 9-2-5 tech.  Ask any recruiter. It's not very well known, but fits your requirements of serving without inconvenience... :

Kat


----------



## gregorydewolfe

what the hell is a 9 2 5 tech


----------



## George Wallace

That is so secret, it shouldn't have been mentioned here.   ;D 

Kat

Dolly P will be looking for you.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Mea culpa for the security comp...

Kat


----------



## Cloud Cover

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> The trade you want to ask about is 9-2-5 tech.   Ask any recruiter. It's not very well known, but fits your requirements of serving without inconvenience... :
> 
> Kat



beadwindow beadwindow ..


----------



## Cloud Cover

Sorry, it was a joke. Beadwindow is an EEFI.


----------



## Edward Campbell

If you'll forgive my instant and distant analysis, gregorydewolfe, it 'reads' to me that you want to take a lot more out of the army than you are considering putting in.

I know nothing about the CFAT, we didn't have such things when I was a lad; we wrote something called a 'M Test' â â€œ all I can remember is that officers and some trades like Engineers and Signals had to score 120, Infantry and Armoured soldiers needed 110, Service Corps soldiers (cooks and drivers) needed 100, and MPs and pipers needed 90.   (The theory, I guess, was that it didn't require too much imagination to march up and down in front of an irate, aggressive enemy playing the bagpipes â â€œ annoying them further.)   (I'm pretty sure I got more than 120 because I never wrote the thing again and I was selected, after a few years, for officer training.)   In any event I wanted to join the infantry and the infantry seemed pleased enough to have me for a while â â€œ it (the infantry) actually seemed disinterested and annoyed, by turns, but training is always like that.   I joined for about equal parts fun and adventure and to avoid the 'master plan' my family had all neatly mapped out â â€œ doing things outdoors, maybe overseas in exotic places, with guns all seemed like the right thing for an 18 year old.   It was, too.   I didn't leave until nearly 37 years later.   I switched cap badges a few times and worked my way through nearly a dozen enlisted and commissioned ranks but I wouldn't do anything else.

During that time I had more than one occasion to deal with would-be officers (myself and my officer candidate platoon-mates included).   I developed some pretty strong views about what sort of product we need to feed in to the 'sausage machine': tough, bright, adventurous, fit and athletic, curious and interested and adequately educated youngsters; the same for all corps â â€œ logistics and infantry, alike.   I still believe, quite firmly, that a bare pass BA with a major in basket weaving will do; the army shouldn't care much (except for e.g. engineering officers) what you learned in school â â€œ just as long as you persevered and demonstrated an ability to learn _something_.   The army will teach you all the useful information in the world â â€œ some of it will even come on army courses, up to and including post-graduate level courses but most will be taught by grizzled NCOs with far less formal education and way more smarts than the people under instruction.   My personal experience was that _instruction_ slowed after I had about 30 years of service and stopped almost dead at 36.

Aptitude can be measured, I think, and the army has concluded, based on about 2,000 years of experience, that certain measurable things â â€œ like math scores after only 30 well chosen questions â â€œ can tell them who is likely to make it through training for certain occupations, like logistics officer.

If you think you have something for the army then I suggest you try one of the open trades, I am partial to INF â â€œ I think that's where you have the most fun, but I'm prejudiced and, probably, reliving my youth, vicariously, through army.ca.   If you like the army and it likes you then the sky is the limit.   If you and the army are not well suited for one another then you still have some useful experience â â€œ maybe real, rock-solid leadership experience.   In either event you will have a measure of yourself.

Few enough people who want to be soldiers do really well at it; a very few of those who, like you (and as I thought I did), want some experience before they do something _real_ with their lives do become good (adequate, anyway) soldiers, but the chances are slimmer.

Good luck.

Edited to correct spelling and sentence structure


----------



## Michael OLeary

Edward, a superb post, thank you. I have added a link to it in the Recruiting FAQ under "Thinking About Joining." I took the liberty of labelling it "Your aptitudes and desires versus the Army's needs (an excellent post by a very experienced gentleman)."


----------



## gregorydewolfe

dear Edward...

that was an interesting post by someone im sure i could learn a lot from.  8 months ago when i first applied, they asked me what my degree was and i said business with a major in marketing and management.  Then they said, ok logO is what you want.  I didn't think anymore about it, and havent even looked into any other jobs in the air force.  I didn't even think about until during the interview today when we started talking about all the fincance and accounting that would have to be done (were not my favorite classes by a long shot).  So today i'm very upset and confused because i thought this was going to be my career, but now i have to come to reality and deal with the fact that getting a low score again on the math section could happen again.  I don't even know what happend today.  I worked out all the questions and thought there was going to be no problem.  I have no idea how to prepare more for the same test.  I tried to find spacial, word problem and fraction books today but couldn't find examples of what i saw today which would help me get a higher score.  

Basically it was a bad day because of that and when i applied, for me to even write for DEO, I had to get a 4 or more out of 5 when my resume was looked at.  I only got a 3 and called to find out why.  Was told that my 4 years teaching in korea didn't count as "supervisor" experience and I asked why not, and they looked at my resume again and changed their minds and gave me a 4.  So today I come to find out that even if I got a high score on the test today, I probably wouldn't have gotten LogO anyways since my resume isn't competitive enough.  

So after the "interview" i found myself back to where I was in December, not knowing what i want my career to be and worrying that i only have one more chance to nail the 30 easy math questions.  I want to put a lot into the airforce, i just dont want to be away from my wife for years at a time.


----------



## NavComm

gee I wonder if that 9-2-5 Tech is available for reservists? I guess then it would be R9-2-5 Tech, One saturday a month.  ^-^

Gregory I am wondering what made you decide on log officer? What criteria did you use to choose that? It does sound like you don't want to do anything to do with bookkeeping/accounting and seems like that job has a lot of that in it.

As for your comment that they didn't offer you much, looks like they offered everything but the kitchen sink and few other MOC's that for whatever reason require a higher score than you got on the aptitude test.

How did you do on the other portions of the test?


----------



## D-n-A

Theres a different CFAT test for officers an NCMs, are you sure of that? If you look above this thread, your see another one on the CFAT that has 36 pages discussing the test, have a look at it.


http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html


----------



## gregorydewolfe

they do give the results they dont tell you what questions you got wrong though.  They only tell you the totals.


----------



## NavComm

They didn't give me the results, just that I had passed for my MOC. But during the interview I was told I got 100% on the verbal skills portion, no mention of the other portions.


----------



## J.R.

Sorry for the misinformation ... I misinterpreted another thread.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention MikeL.  Anyway, good luck with the test; something that I have experienced is that if you practice a bit with some spatial and problem solving questions from other sources, you can get a bit of a handle on how the test questions will be.  Personally, I wrote the GMAT and completed some Mensa tests and found that they sharpened my focus for the test and I did very well.  Not sure what can be done for the verbal, especially the word meanings part.  Thanks again to MikeL for clearing up the phantom separate test. :-[


----------



## Mojo Magnum

The sheet you recieve back will say All Trades, or Everything or the like.

And hey, you don't need 100% to see it on your page.  I did and I sure didn't get 100%


----------



## GregC

R.Jacquel said:
			
		

> Ok I just got back from my recruiting centre and was given all the packages for being Infantry Reserve. This test seems WAY to easy, me and my friend actually laughed because it's way to easy. I mean is that really what the test is like or is this just like a lead down the wrong road, making people think its simple so they don't study, then get there and the test is a beast. I'm working out every day and running every day and my test won't be for another year because I'm finishing college then entering, so I know I can do the physical section of it. I'm just worried about bombing the CFAT test. So can anyone tell me if this test example is even close?



I generally over prepare myself for everything in life, and when it came time to take the CFAT, I was very glad that I had over prepared myself for this test. The sample questions on your sheets are nowhere near as difficult as the ones on the CFAT. Do not listen to the many people around here saying how the CFAT was a breeze, I qualified all trades, but I can tell you right now there was some sweat on my brow after finishing the test.

Over prepare yourself for the CFAT. What's the worst that can happen? You breeze through the test, qualifying all trades, and maybe you missed going out with your friends for a few fridays. The alternative is much worse.

I highly recommend you read the CFAT sticky thread at the top of this page, it will give you practice tests and advice that will help you pass the CFAT. I was very glad that I had done this when it came time for my test.

Best of luck!!


----------



## ChopperHead

This may seem like dumb question but still Im curious. Can you use a calculator on the CFAT?


----------



## ChopperHead

Well I just wondering because like you still have to know the sequence and equations and all that in order to use the calculator so you if you can use the calculator then you know how to do the math with out it. Just so I don't have to keep wrighting it out to figure them out.


----------



## Mojo Magnum

Assuming your addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and problem solving are all  up to snuff  (as they should be if you graduated grade 8)

the dirty word you need to learn is 
Albegra

As someone who has not attended a math class in over ten years (I'm 34).  I can honestly say that this site saved my aptitude ass ;D



http://www.purplemath.com/

go get'em recruit :warstory:


----------



## R.Jacquel

Thanks alot guys I really appreciate the help and encouragement. Right now I am preping for the physical and then when I am about 2 months away from taking CFAT I will start to study for that. Again thanks alot.


----------



## oftengone

Hello...

When you went to the recrutement center didn't they give you a sheet with all the internet adress, with exemple of tests??  Cause when I went they gave me a sheet with all the exemple of aptitude test given by the federal gouvement.

Here are a couple...


http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_info_e.htm

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/ost_info_e.htm

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct1_info_e.htm

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_info_e.htm

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/assessment_pg2_la_e.htm

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/assessment_pg2_ma_e.htm

with all of this it schould help you through your studies for the tests...

Good luck


----------



## Q.Y. Ranger

Today i took both the CFAT and Physical fitness test. I passed both, probably because i reviewed my math quite a bit before hand, and worked on my physical fitness. Some others on this thread have mentioned that they were told there was no need to study, and they didn't. Now some got the trade they wanted, and some didn't. I was talking to one guy that i wrote the test with before we wrote it, and i asked him if he studied. His reply, "Pff, of course not, its only an aptitude test, how hard could it be". Well just as i thought, he was the first one to get called in, and the only one to leave. All I'm trying to say, is that if you want to be a little bit ahead of the game, you might want to refresh you mind, with things such as long division, and basic math skills. Sure you might do fine if you dint....but on the other hand, you might not. 

Mike


----------



## J.R.

Hey gregorydewolfe ... why the hurry to join?  If your CFAT did not go well and you were deemed inexperienced and you still want to be a Log O, why not get some experience on civvy street while taking some refresher elementary math courses.  Also, I believe that besides local high schools, universities offer math upgrading to pre-year one university level.  From what I have heard from the recruiters and some Log O's in the regs, you do need some experience and a healthy CFAT score.  After a couple years with some management experience, you might have a better shot.  Also, have you tried accounting outside of an academic setting?  Maybe you should give it a chance ... I know of those who struggled mightily in university only to become CAs, CMAs, etc.  Anyway, just a thought.  I don't think there is a time restriction on getting more qualified ... if you want it bad enough, it should work, just work hard and stay positive (by the way, ever thought about seeing a career counsellor?).


----------



## alexpb

I read over this thread quite a bit before taking my Aptitude test.
I took some online tests mentioned in this thread and from my recruiter.

I then borrowed the 922 page GED Study guide that my sister owns to make sure i was ready for it.
I ended up not using it at all. I flipped through a few pages but got so lost and frustrated i just said forget it.

On September 1st i went into the CFRC to do my aptitude test without studying. I found it kind of hard, and wished i had gone over the study guide.

I passed the test, but not as well as i could of if i studied better. You should be sure you are going to pass with flying colours.

We then got to look at the print out of the trades that we were suitable for after taking the CFAT. I only had like 30 some odd trades available to me. I knew if i studied i could of had a larger choice available to me.
Nonetheless I got the trades i wanted so i was real happy.

One thing i should mention to anyone whos going to take it is; we had 8 guys who went into the aptitude test. After it was over 4 of those guys i never saw again. The rest of us went on to do our PT. Only half of us made it.

Be sure you are ready for the test and don't think "oh it's going to be super easy".

I was talking to 2 of the guys who failed before the test and what did they say? "Oh this will be a piece of cake". They were the first to leave.

Be sure to study!

[Just wanted to post this so others could view my own personal story and experience and also add to the support to study and be ready]

- Alex


----------



## Sgt_McWatt

I am just waiting to get the paperwork back from my second reference before submitting my application. However I am very nervous about the aptitude test. I did the practice test on-line http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct_test_e.htm I only managed a 57%. Now I understand you never actually see your final test mark, just a list of possible occupations. However I need to know, should I be worried.

Thanks,


----------



## D-n-A

I recommend the practice ASVABs you can find online, I did them a few times and I qualified for all the CF trades when I did my CFAT.


----------



## NavyGirl280

:'(

Went in this morning for my CFAT, medical and interview. Well so far I have 2 out of the 3 done. I bite some hard azz when I took the CFAT (even after studying every possible aptitude test online I could find) and therefore didn't get the choice I wanted for the reserves. So now I am "stuck" with the decision of re-writing the test and probably doing just as bad on it. Or joining in as Cook or Steward. My husband doesn't want me to go navy as he is an NCIop and he's worried we wouldn't see much of one another. I guess I will end up decided on one or another after speaking with him some more and the recruiter and after I have had some time to sleep on it, as right now I am pretty bummed that I didn't get in as RMS CLK. I refuse to give up now and take that silly test again. 

On the other hand, I had my medical and now sitting on my counter top is a bunch of paperwork to go to my family doctor to be signed. I have asthma (not enough to worry about but they have to cover their azzes) and the occasional headache. Other than that, I'm good to go. However my interview was delayed until he gets the paperwork back because he doesn't want me to go to the PT without this note from my doc. Apparently they ask you on the PT form if you have asthma and if checked "yes", your sent out the door and have to repay to take the test. He doesn't want me to have to repay. I know I can get a good note from my doctor. 

Anyway, so I'm kinda bummed right now and pretty tired from being up since 5 am. Its now 1:15 pm and I need to find some lunch. Maybe this is when I need to be a cook so I stop burning all my food (LOL) Take care 'til next time


S.Bradbury


----------



## NavyGirl280

I just had an interesting phone call ...

From what I am told my CFAT mark meant nothing. I knew I wouldn't see my mark and I knew it doesn't really "count" towards me getting in ... just getting into the my choice selection. Well, I was informed that no matter how good or bad you do on your test, they will tell you otherwise so they can fit you into a position that needs more people. (EX:   If someone applied for artillery and had a 100% on their test, they still may not get it as they may need more people as stewards. So they will tell them that they didn't pass and this is what is provided to them.) I sure hope this is a load of sh*t! I know I didn't do very well on my test so I thought nothing of it. So now, I feel I have to take what they are offering me (which I don't mind either choice - don't get me wrong) or I have to wait it out 3 months and try again. And what happens then if I don't get in as an RMS CLK. How many times would I have to try before I can finally get in? 

Does anyone know some truths to this? Thank you in advance

S. Bradbury


----------



## NavyGirl280

Island Ryhno said:
			
		

> You call back whoever told you that and tell them "Yank your head out of your a$$"




I would like to think he is telling me the truth (to some degree). I don't want to think that I did suck that bad on the test that I am unfit for the one trade that I have been after for so long now. He is a good friend of mine so I am hoping he wouldn't lie to me. But I do know, that everything is only hear-say. 

I'm in such a bind and I don't know what I should do? Does anyone have any suggestions?


Thank you in advance

S.Bradbury


----------



## kincanucks

NavyGirl280 said:
			
		

> I would like to think he is telling me the truth (to some degree). I don't want to think that I did suck that bad on the test that I am unfit for the one trade that I have been after for so long now. He is a good friend of mine so I am hoping he wouldn't lie to me. But I do know, that everything is only hear-say.
> 
> I'm in such a bind and I don't know what I should do? Does anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance
> 
> S.Bradbury



And this good friend does he work in recruiting?  If you only attained the CFAT minimum for Cook and Steward then you only made Cook and Steward, end of story.


----------



## NavyGirl280

No he doesn't work in recruiting. He has some very close friends in the office though. I'm not sure what my test marks were so I don't know if I only made "grade" for cook/steward or not. I'm thinking I am going to forfeit right now and try again in 3 months. 


S.Bradbury


----------



## kincanucks

NavyGirl280 said:
			
		

> No he doesn't work in recruiting. He has some very close friends in the office though. I'm not sure what my test marks were so I don't know if I only made "grade" for cook/steward or not. I'm thinking I am going to forfeit right now and try again in 3 months.
> S.Bradbury


One more time.  If they told you that you only made Cook and Steward then you only made Cook and Steward. Good luck on your rewrite.


----------



## bluecollared

Hi all, I just did my CFAT this morning and got my choice of any NCM trade for Reg Force. I think the best suggestion in this thread so far would be to go to the library and get a GED book or something similar to brush up, especially if you've been out of school for a while.


----------



## Dog

Did my CFAT this morning and qualified for 2 pages worth of trades... didn't study for the test, worked the night shift before I went in, ate a couple pizza pockets for breakfast... showed up feeling like turd. 

Blew the test away.

Now I'm not saying to not study, but I'm not the only one on this thread who has this sort of story... so really, all you people out there sweating bullets over this test, try to relax about it. Prepare yourself, but don't freak out.


----------



## 2 Cdo

Just to reiterate what a few others have written here. My personal belief is that if you feel that you need to study for an aptitude test, you are probably not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I recently re-wrote my aptitude test and aced it. The last time I wrote it was in 1981!! 

The bottom line is don't worry too much about it, after all it is not a MENSA test, nor does it require you to split the atom or anything like that. The questions are geared towards approximately grade 9 material in high school and some good old fashioned common sense. My demolitions safety test, now that was a little harder, but not that much.


----------



## codeblue

ok  here is my situation. i did the aptitude test and failed. waited 3 months to do the test again when i called the cfrc they told me that theyhave noticed that i have had previous service in the past, now the only thing with that is that i was in the army cadets like 10yrs ago (CGG) i want to know why does that still matter? and if it does matter, how does it turn in my favor?     


small tip for those who failed tha apptiude test ( math part) cheak this link i found.
http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/tests/mathstest.htm


----------



## kincanucks

codeblue said:
			
		

> ok   here is my situation. i did the aptitude test and failed. waited 3 months to do the test again when i called the cfrc they told me that theyhave noticed that i have had previous service in the past, now the only thing with that is that i was in the army cadets like 10yrs ago (CGG) i want to know why does that still matter? and if it does matter, how does it turn in my favor?
> 
> 
> small tip for those who failed tha apptiude test ( math part) cheak this link i found.
> http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/tests/mathstest.htm



Call and asked them.

_I should get paid extra for this._


----------



## Ryan Hill

I'm going to aply for the reserves for thsi summer. I'm wondering if any of you are in the reserves and could give ma a brief overview


----------



## kincanucks

Ryan Hill said:
			
		

> I'm going to aply for the reserves for thsi summer. I'm wondering if any of you are in the reserves and could give ma a brief overview



Search and spellcheck and search and spellcheck.


----------



## Maigan

Se7eN said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Well I feel like a right moron right now. I just failed my CFAT. I cannot belive it actually. I have a 92% avg in English and a 78% in math. When I was given the practice problems it said it would be a simple test and I was informed there would be no real need to study. But I failed and I am real confused, anyone else had this problem or am I unique? It seemed the practice questions I was given were not even representitive of the test.


  

i Filed mine too i have a 91 in english and a 86 in math  ??? that test is crazy :rage:[flash=200,200][/flash]


----------



## FITSUMO

the CFAT is not a crazy test at all, if you review before you take it, you should do well.  It has been said that if you study for the CFAT you are not the sharpest knife, but for any test it is always good to have a review. There have been many suggestions on other tests to look at before doing the CFAT in this thread, did you have look at any of them.   I live in math every day( engineer technologist, working in research and development), but I had to work on doing math without my PC.  There is no shame in reviewing and being prepared.

good luck when you rewrite.


----------



## jo-dionne

Hi folks, I have applied for Regular NCM and I have passed the CFAT back in august (2005/08/29).

Does anybody know (_maybe kincanucks_) the minimal CFAT result for MOC 226, 227, 291! (I'm just curious!)

During the CFAT, we were about nine candidates in the room. At the end the test, the Cpl. ask everyone to leave the room except me and another people who applied for DEO. The Cpl. congratulated us! He doesn't give us our scores, he just tell us that we have an excellent score.

Here in QC (CFRC QC), I (_the candidate_) have to fill a Personal Information Request Form if I really want to know my CFAT result.

By the way, does anybody know (_maybe kincanucks_) the average CFAT score!

Regards,
DIONNE, J
Quebec City


----------



## acclenticularis

From other posts, it seems as though, for officers, our scores are considered relative to other candidates.  So, if the CFAT is like other aptitude tests, we produce a raw score and then are placed relative to others based on that raw score.  I.e.

Verbal Test: 60th percentile - say x for raw score
Numerical Test: 55th percentile - say y for raw score
Spatial Test: 40th percentile - say z for raw score

Overall: 52nd percentile

Therefore, there would be 48% of all other officer candidates with a higher overall score.  I think this makes sense ... however, I am not a recruiter and I took the test a long time ago.


----------



## kincanucks

_Does anybody know (maybe kincanucks) the minimal CFAT result for MOC 226, 227, 291! (I'm just curious!)_

You need a minimum total score of 30/60.

In my CFRC/D I would guess that the average CFAT score is around 35 or 36.  As for the national average, who knows.


----------



## MJB

I just recently rewrote my CFAT because the AEC realm require a minimum score which I was one under the first time I wrote it... I personally am not aware of anyone who failed the test... In high school or otherwise and I know some people who... Well... They're not the sharpest crayon in the box... However the practice questions I suppose tell one what TYPE of questions not soo much the calibre of those questions.  Don't Sweat It!


----------



## Dog

Actually, I found that the practice questions were pretty representative of the calibre of questions you will face. The only reason you might have more difficulty is the number of questions... as they just kind of blend together after you've seen 30 of them.


----------



## rain_vixin

Se7eN said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Well I feel like a right moron right now. I just failed my CFAT. I cannot belive it actually. I have a 92% avg in English and a 78% in math. When I was given the practice problems it said it would be a simple test and I was informed there would be no real need to study. But I failed and I am real confused, anyone else had this problem or am I unique? It seemed the practice questions I was given were not even representitive of the test.


where  and how would I get a appl and print it off so I can send it in?


----------



## George Wallace

Take the time and read this Thread....all the info is here....besides, you can not print off the test and fill it out at home and take it in....You will do that at the Recruiting Centre under controlled conditions.


----------



## Sixshooter

going into the test, i had my doubts in failing it because i know some smart people that said they failed, but passed the second time when they werent high.

when i was doing the test, the only part that got to me was the english, and i usually got 80's in english in school, and i saw some words there that i never even knew were words. but i passed, so i crapped my pants then moved on.


----------



## koss78a

Hello everyone out there, i gave it my shot and just so you know, the appitute test is a lot harder then  you might think, i just did it and i was unsuccessful, i have to wait now 3 months before the rewrite
failed math even though i studied for it, all well not much one can do,


----------



## Forgotten_Hero

> Hello everyone out there, i gave it my shot and just so you know, the appitute test is a lot harder then  you might think, i just did it and i was unsuccessful, i have to wait now 3 months before the rewrite



"a lot harder than you might think"

I know exactly how hard it is, I've done it. Its not hard at all.


----------



## Michael OLeary

koss78a said:
			
		

> the appitute test is a lot harder then  you might think





			
				Forgotten_Hero said:
			
		

> Its not hard at all.



And these comments at two ends of the spectrum only serve to emphasize that it is an individual challenge, taken by an intellectually diverse segment of society.

Now, unless the two of you are willing to trade detailed comments on scholastic backgrounds, grades, and academic interests both in and out of school in order to establish the basis of a spectrum of comparison for others, then this discission is, well, rather academic.


----------



## Spazz

hmmm, mines schedualed for dec. 5th. Well it sounds like you didn't prepare yourslef enough. i don't think its going to be easy, nor should anyone think that about anything. But anyways all the best, only 3 months out of approxamitley 960 of your life right?


----------



## Glorified Ape

I didn't think you could fail the aptitude test... I stand corrected.


----------



## acclenticularis

Koss ... just check out the threads about the aptitude test.  You will see that there is a wide variation in opinions about the level of difficulty of the test.  I agree with Mr. O'Leary, how you do depends on many factors.  There is great advice in other threads on preparing for the test.  I hate it when someone chimes in with 'it was not hard at all'.  Not that relevant to others taking the test.  Good luck with the re-write.


----------



## cda84

Agreed. Mentioning that "it is not that hard at all"..serves no purpose but to boost your self esteem and/or lower that of the applicant who was unsuccessful. Not a good characteristic to have in the CF.

Just try'er again. This is also why it is an aptitude test. You can only study to a certain extent. I remember the spatial part is one part that Im not sure how one could study for, but the other parts yes. Dont worry, just try again, begin your run at the CF with not giving up and you'll be on the right track.

cheers


----------



## Hansol

well, in the chance that this might help people out, my experience is this:

I'm an Alberta high school graduate, took all "univeristy prep courses" if you will. Had a 70% in english, a 64% in bio, a 94% in social studies, and a 54% in math. Have done about 3 months worth of a business course at a technological institute here in Alberta. This course is super easy, I have done about 0 (yes, zero) days of studying and am getting by with a 75% average, so you can't throw the whole "smart enough for college" deal at me.

So yeah, with that "experience" under my belt, I managed to do fairly well on the test, although I don't really know what my mark was. All I know is that I knew all the mathematical and problem sovling content on the test, and when it comes to the English and Spatial parts of the test, you either have it or you don't.

What I did to prep was the weekend before the exam, I just did online IQ quizzes. Don't pay too much attention as to what your scores are, just get familiar with the types of approaches to the various questions. Also, if you don't read much, start. Pick up books on Canadian military history or something that you are interested in, and just read. Its the only way to understand words, other than the "read the dictionary" approach. 

So there you go. That's my 2 cents.


----------



## Bert

Koss

Practice these sample tests, study on what you find hard, repeat the tests until your comfortable, and try 
the CFAT again.   Practice and get help on what you find difficult.

https://psjobs-emploisfp.psc-cfp.gc.ca/psr/applicant/applicant.callpage;PsrSessionID=DM0VXZHTZn0CpQvL12Lbv8pfqG8x!-922299847?pages=applicant/info/helpTestInfo

PS> The link isn't post friendly so you may have to cut and paste the entire URL.


----------



## boots

I'm sorry that you had this result. At least now you have a better idea of what to expect from the test, and possibly even what you need to work on. Good luck when you go to retake it.


----------



## aesop081

amazing......

40 pages and this thread is still going in circles with the same old shyte !!

 :crybaby:


----------



## kincanucks

gregorydewolfe said:
			
		

> taking my test for the 2nd time in 8 days...very worried that I'm going to not do so great like the first time even though I feel much more prepared this time, I still worry about that math section and those stupid boxes in the spacial section which I couldn't find any practice tests on that look like the ones on the test.   If I don't pass this time I don't know what to do.   It's been all I can think about lately.   I hate my job so much, it makes me study harder, I just hope the studying is going to pay off and that I'm doing math questions close to what's on the test.   Can't do much to prepare for the word meanings since I dont remember what the questions were but I am reading wordsmart but it's like reading a dictionary.



2nd time in eight days! What are you talking about?  First, you have to wait three months to retest and secondly, you don't need to pass the test as a DEO unless you got the lowest score in CFAT history? I think _spacial_ is either something you use in baking, plastering or surgery, perhaps you are thinking of spatial?

_Can't do much to prepare for the word meanings since I dont remember what the questions were _ You just wrote the test eight days ago!


----------



## gregorydewolfe

Ok well first of all you sound like a big ***hole and 2nd you don't know how to read.  I said I'm taking the test for the 2nd time, in 8 days.  And yes I meant spatial Mr. Perfect spelling king.  Why would you bother even responding to what I wrote?  Are trying to look cool or smart?  I can assure you that you didn't come off as either one.  And I didn't say I didn't pass last time and what you wrote doesn't make any sense.

You don't need to pass the test as a DEO??

What are you talking about, I didn't say I was a DEO I said I was trying to get in as a DEO...once again you can't read.  I'm surprised they let you on this board if you answer everything negatively and condescending, who needs to hear that?  Not me. So do me a favor and don't respond.


----------



## mdh

> Ok well first of all you sound like a big ***hole and 2nd you don't know how to read.  I said I'm taking the test for the 2nd time, in 8 days.  And yes I meant spatial Mr. Perfect spelling king.  Why would you bother even responding to what I wrote?  Are trying to look cool or smart?  I can assure you that you didn't come off as either one.  And I didn't say I didn't pass last time and what you wrote doesn't make any sense.



For the record Kincanucks is one of the few real experts on this board with regard to recruiting so you may want to withdraw this  before the mods take you apart.

mdh


----------



## kincanucks

_What are you talking about, I didn't say I was a DEO I said I was trying to get in as a DEO_

Are you for real?

DEO is Direct Entry Officer which is a CF entry plan so if you are trying to get in as a DEO then you are a DEO applicant and thererfore you don't need to pass the CFAT as you have already demonstrated an aptitudal ability by getting a degree.  Now do you have a degree and are you applying as DEO?

I _know what the process is and KIM might be an expert but he's not a nice guy.  He made me feel worse about writing the test, not better_

Well that didn't take much did it?


----------



## gregorydewolfe

KIN:  sorry if I was being rude early, I'm not having a good day.  I'm affaid that I'm confused becasue when I wrote the cfat 3 months ago, I was told that I did pass but would need a high score to get the trade that I want.  I do have a degree in business but was told that I have to re-write which is next week


----------



## kincanucks

No problem we all have them. Are you applying for Aerospace Control Officer because that would explain the rewrite?


----------



## gregorydewolfe

first choice was log officer.  so now, the only thing i can think of is that i did really really bad on the first test and i have to re write even though i have a degree because log wasn't on my list but i was also told that even if i scored high on the first test, i would be accepted as a logofficer because i dont have enough business expereince on my resume which i didnt understand because im joinging the CF becasue of that problem.  Does that make any sense to you?  I know I probably got a lot of the spatial questions wrong because i didnt know which way most of them folded to get the write answer.  I felt pretty dumb when I was told i had to re write.


----------



## kincanucks

It doesn't make any sense that you have to rewrite unless you did do really bad.  When a DEO writes the CFAT and does not get the minimum to be an officer but is fairly close then I tell them that they are not required to pass the test however, the better their score the better their chances are so some will choose to rewrite but it is up to them.  If a DEO does really bad on the CFAT then we have to inform higher of the result and they will decide whether the applicant has to rewrite or not.  Good Luck.


----------



## gregorydewolfe

thanks Kin you have helped me answer questions that have been up in the air for the past 3 months.  The Captian who did my interview told me that I just need two more points on the 2nd test which i hope i get.


----------



## 3aXap

omg omg omg

i have a test next week. watching people fail makes me nervous. :crybaby: WHat should i do/


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Drink tea....


----------



## Hansol

cry like a baby, chew your nails off, drink a helluva lot of rum, then go to bed. Works every time.


----------



## Dillinger

Hi there,

I've just registered with the Army.ca Forums for the purpose of posting the following message. I have read all 41 pages of this thread. Very interesting stories I've read. Now I've finally decided to share my own personal story with the members of this forum. I welcome all replies to my post. I especially welcome replies from past or current CF members who are experts on recruitment, so that they can offer me their expert opinion on my story. I would especially like to hear from mdh, as I've come to highly respect him and his opinions just by reading his postings in this thread.

Here's my story:
I have always been a military history and equipment buff. So logically, I decided to pursue an Infantry (I was always attracted to the Infantry) career in the CF. I started the process when I was just about to finish high school in 2002. I applied as a Reserve Infantry soldier with the Governor General's Footguards (in which one of my grandfathers served with right after WW2. My other grandfather served with the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa around the same time). I was told by recruiters that the CFAT would be very easy. The 3 CFAT practice questions contained in the recruitment pamphlet are, in my opinion, misleading because they are much more difficult that the questions in the CFAT. After finding out that there would be a high school math part in the test, I got worried because math was always my weakest subject in high school. As a matter of fact, I failed Grade 8 and 10 math and had to go to summer school to pass them, which I did. I got even more worried when I was told that calculators were forbidden (although I was not very surprised since it was an aptitude test), as calculators, as far as I can remember, were permitted during every high school math exam that I ever took and that counted towards my final grades. The reason this worried me is because, as a result of calculators, my mental math calculation abilities are very poor. But since high school math was still fresh in my mind, I assumed that I would be able to pass the CFAT and thus wasn't too worried about it.

Well, the day of the test came, and before I knew it, I had breezed through the grammar part (with extreme ease I might add since grammar was always a strongpoint of mine), and had went through the spatial part with little difficulty (the last few questions were insanely hard). I was riding high as they say. Then I started the math part. I was totally shocked at how difficult the questions were (for me). I knew or remembered very few of the mathematical solutions needed to solve the problems in the test. I couldn't even make educated guesses to the questions as the correct answers were the exact answers to the questions. You really have to know the EXACT mathematical solution to EVERY question. Not only that, but you have to know how to put them into practice without the help of calculators. This test was the exact opposite of EVERY high school math test that I ever did that ever counted towards my final grades. Anyway, I managed to answer maybe 20 of the 30 questions. Throughout test, I frantically tried to find the correct answers to some of the questions by trying out different mathematical solutions on the blank paper that was given to me. But it proved to be futile because I remembered almost none of the solutions needed for correctly answering the questions. The test ended and I was the first one called up afterwards. I knew that was a bad sign. My fears were proven to be true when I was informed that I had failed the math part. I was told that I did very well in the grammar part (I was told that my mark was better than the average marks), averagely well in the spatial part, and not so good in the math part (I think I got something like 12 questions right). Because of my math score, my overall score was not good enough for the Infantry (that made me feel like a total retard). I was given my exact CFAT scores for all three parts but I don't remember them now.

I took the test again towards the end of my first year of college back in 2003. I applied as a Regular Infantry soldier with the RCR. This time I took the test in English (my maternal language is French and I always went to French schools). The same thing happened all over again. I knew I had failed it when I was the first one called up after the test. Once again, I aced the Grammar part, I did pretty good to ok in the spatial part, and I flunked (although with a slightly better mark which was due to guesswork) the math part. I was given my exact score on all 3 parts but I don't remember them anymore. I was told that I could take the test again after completing college. 

I was completely unprepared for the first CFAT. There's nothing that I could've done there. But I could've prepared myself for the second one, which sadly I didn't. I sure wish I had found this thread after my first test or even before it. I had not studied high school math one bit for the second CFAT. I thought my first failure was something of a fluke. I was in denial that I had failed such a basic aptitude test, and convinced myself that studying for such a simple test was not necessary. I wanted to redeem myself in my own eyes by proving that I could pass the math part by not studying for it (since, after all, it was math that I had already seen and was supposed to be familiar with). I also convinced myself that another reason for my failure was that I was somewhat paralyzed by the difficulty of the questions. The element of surprise made me freeze up, I thought. I also attributed my failure in part to my spending too much time on individual questions that I obviously didn't know how to answer. In short, I tried to rationalize my failure. In fact, the real reson for my failure (which I finally came to admit AFTER failing the CFAT twice) was my lack of knowledge of high school mathematical problem-solving solutions.

I decided to give the CFAT another shot this past summer, but that this time I would seriously study up on my high school math before attempting it again. But unfortunately for me, the decision on whether or not I could retake the CFAT a third time had to be made high up the chain of command. They decided that I had not gathered enough official education since my last attempt. My 2-year Police Foundations college diploma was deemed to be not enough official education since I had only 1 year left on it when I tried the CFAT the second time. Add to that the fact that I had no math course at all in college. My pledge to seriously study up on my high school math before attempting the test again was also deemed not enough (which I understand could not have been taken very seriously due to my similar pledge after my first failure). The Army (I think) Captain that interviewed me to review my case when I inquired about taking the CFAT a third time was a really fair guy. I told him the above-listed reasons why I convinced myself that I had failed the first test and didn't study for the second test. I then told him the REAL reason why I had failed BOTH tests. He told me that he understood everything I said and that I deserved a second chance (or rather a third chance, depending on how you look at it). He told me that he admired my sincere devotion to join the military, and that by admitting to my mistakes and by demonstrating a serious will to study for the third test, he had been convinced to recommend for a third attempt. I will never forget what that guy did for me, and yet I can only remember his rank! He said that I had a 50/50 chance of getting approved. I didn't. He told me that in order to qualify for a third retest I'd have to get another diploma (college or university). But since I have no intention of going back to school, I can forget a career in the CF as an Infantry soldier.

For those of you who are wondering, the math part of the CFAT deals exclusively with ADVANCED GRADE 10 MATH. Trust me on that, it comes directly from the mouth of the above-mentioned Captain. I took REGULAR GRADE 10 MATH and I had to go to summer school to pass that!!! So the moral of this story is that studying is VERY VERY IMPORTANT! I can't stretch that enough. Some people don't need to study and some people THINK they don't need to study (like me). Unless you're 100% sure that you're a person who doesn't need to study, then I'd seriously recommend you'd study. What have you got to lose by studying? Better to be safe than sorry if you ask me. I'm one of the ones who's sorry. Oh well, at least I learned a valuable life lesson from all of this, even though it cost me a potential career in the CF as an Infantry soldier!!! I have nobody to blame for my failure but myself. I have finally come to terms with this failure. It's time to move on to something else I guess.

In conclusion, I apologize in advance for the extreme length of this posting. But it was necessary to correctly express myself. I can't begin to describe how much of a relief it is to share this story with people familiar with the CFAT. I thank you for letting me do so. I guess what I really needed was a shrink, but this will do just fine

Regards


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## Spazz

Well I just wrote this morning. I would say it is right in the middle. Just make sure you relax, do the questions you know first and then go back and do the ones that are harder. Everyone can pass it as long as you have a grade 10 credit and remember what your taught. Best of luck to anyone writing it in th future. (by the way i got accepted for all trades  ;D )


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## 3aXap

2Spazz 

i also wrote it today lol. Were you at 4900 Young?

As for the LONG post dude. I had a very opposite expirience with the test. In the english part i only knew 5-4 words out of 15. I mean I NEVER saw other words in my life. But the math part was a piece of cake. I guess its the russian education system I have to give credit to. We were doing this type of questions in grade 5-8 . The shapes part was also very controversial. looked easy in the beggining, but turned out rediculiously hard in the end. Also i do not agree with your comment on calculators. Most of question you dont need precise calculations. And if your in the field your not likely to carry a calculator


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## polo

If you nees help with aptitude the best things are IQ tests and some online quizzes, you can buy some aptitude test books at coles or chapters, etc.


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## NavyGirl280

My biggest weakness is fractions. I found an awesome site from this thread  (www.math.com). It has step-by-step instructions on (re)learning fractions and a short test afterwards to see how you studied. I have been cracking down on that website to the point my eyes bog out of my head -LOL-

S.Bradbury


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## canadianblue

Koss, just soldier on and apply again three months down the road. I'm sure that once you do some more practice, you'll be able to do some more trades.


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## Grunthor

Spazz said:
			
		

> hmmm, mines schedualed for dec. 5th. Well it sounds like you didn't prepare yourslef enough. i don't think its going to be easy, nor should anyone think that about anything. But anyways all the best, only 3 months out of approxamitley 960 of your life right?



heh, i was under the impression that you weren't supposed to really study or anything for it.  i didn't and i passed, although i really struggled with the spatial, that was hard, but i'm not aware of anything you can really do to develop that, either way in hind sight i would have studied a little bit more for some of the math parts cause you don't get a calculator and i forgot how to do long devision(damn calculators spoiling me).


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## NavComm

Grunthor said:
			
		

> heh, i was under the impression that you weren't supposed to really study or anything for it.   i didn't and i passed, although i really struggled with the spatial, that was hard, but i'm not aware of anything you can really do to develop that, either way in hind sight i would have studied a little bit more for some of the math parts cause you don't get a calculator and i forgot how to do long devision(damn calculators spoiling me).



I haven't been in school for years. I studied for the test with online tests and had some co-workers take them too so I could compare where I was within my 'peer' group. 

My advice, koss, is to do some online studies, search google for 'employment tests' or 'aptitude tests' You'll find some good ones. Also check out the other threads on here that relate to that, there are some very good links on there.

Ask your recruiter to get the link to the CF practice test, I know there is one because my recruiter sent it to me.

If this is what you really want for your future, then don't give up on yourself. Ask your recruiter what areas you were weak in and then concentrate on them. Good luck.


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## Glorified Ape

Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> I didn't think you could fail the aptitude test... I stand corrected.



That came out wrong and sounded worse. What I meant to say was that I thought the aptitude test was a gauge of which trade a person would fit well in, and thus not a pass/fail affair. My apologies for the poorly thought-out statement - it was both insensitive and stupid. 

I know how crappy it feels to be turned away, as I was when I first applied out of highschool (not only turned away but with a 1-year ban from application). Just get back on the horse and give it another shot when you feel you're ready - that's what I did and, after ANOTHER 1-year ban after my second application, I finally got in. Do what you can to prepare, NavComm offered some good suggestions, and then give it another shot. I'm sure you'll have no difficulty passing it on your second go.


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## Stupor

Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> I know how crappy it feels to be turned away, as I was when I first applied out of highschool (not only turned away but with a 1-year ban from application). Just get back on the horse and give it another shot when you feel you're ready - that's what I did and, after ANOTHER 1-year ban after my second application, I finally got in.


What did you do to get those two one-year bans? Kudos on your tenacity.


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## Sh0rtbUs

We fall down often, mostly so we can learn to get back up.


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## NCRCrow

Check out this link for CFAT?

Any comments?

https://www.publicserviceprep.com/secure/ChooseAccountTypeCanadianForcesNF.aspx


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## Quyen

waste if money. Just look at the advice available on the forums and the practice links and you will be fine. Just brush up on math and vocab


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## NCRCrow

Thanks for the advice......


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## jo-dionne

-- quote --
waste if money. Just look at the advice available on the forums and the practice links and you will be fine. Just brush up on math and vocab
-- quote --

Thats true!

_There's many free online test!_

Practice Test for the Graduate Recruitment Test
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm

General Competency Test: Level 2 Practice Test
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_test_e.htm

Office Skills Test Practice Test: Information
(_Sub-test 1, 2, and 4_)
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/ost_info_e.htm

...


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## NCRCrow

I just threw it out there for anybody and everybody to view,

just to see if any people had personal experience(s) good or bad with the program.

I might do it when I join up , I had better see if my Dad would go for it!


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## Pieman

I think it is something that one might consider if they did poor on the CFAT the first time and had to retake it. It might be very helpful in that situation. Otherwise you would probably be wasting your money, it isn't the GRE or SAT exams you know.


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## WannaBeFlyer

Don't be fooled - even if this was identical to the CFAT, you still will not be able to answer the actual CFAT questions without having a solid base or knowledge. Save your money.

NOTHING can prepare you for the CFAT better than a high school education. Honestly. 

Relax, manage your time and you will do fine.

Good luck.


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## Chauhan

Just prepare for it and best of luck!


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## Pieman

> You're not suppose to be prepared for it.. I did it myself 3 weeks ago the best way is to just go random and be sharp.


Errr, because solving math problems are something that you don't learn and just know, right? Of course you can and should practice before taking the test to get the best score you possibly can.


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## Zach15

Greetings,

         I have recently stumbled across this website and have found it to be  an excellent resource of information. Thank you to everyone who has contributed either the stories of their experience in applying to the CF, and to those of you who have answered questions in this thread that I have wondered about myself.

         I am applying under the ROTP program for Pilot. My application has been handed in and I have January 10th booked as the date for my physical, medical, CFAT and interview. It's a good thing I found this thread because it has opened my eyes to the fact that the math portion of the test may not be the joke I thought it was going to be. Although I have taken University level calculus courses and had honor roll marks in all my math classes in highschool, it has been a couple years since I have practiced any of it.

        I have attained a grade 10 math textbook from my younger brother who is still in high school, and have been practicing the online  preperation applitude tests. I have also ordered a GED Math workbook from amazon.com and plan on going through that before the exam. Though I am sure the test will not be outrageously difficult, I plan on being as prepared as possible; when I want something as much as I want this I need to be sure I have done everything in my power to be ready.

       I wanted to ask a question about the required performance for Pilot applications; would it be on par with other officer career options or higher. Am I correct in believing it would be below the required score for say, an engineer profession?

                     So I'll be around the boards, and if there are any pilots out there who feel like talking a bit about their career I would appreciate a PM.

               I'll let y'all know how my CFAT goes along with the rest of my application process! Wish me luck!


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## kincanucks

_I wanted to ask a question about the required performance for Pilot applications; would it be on par with other officer career options or higher. Am I correct in believing it would be below the required score for say, an engineer profession?_

All officer applicants must meet the same CFAT minimum score regardless of the occupation they are applying for except for Aerospace Control Officer.


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## armyrules

Hey everyone sorry haven't been on in a LONG time but have had a few "challenges" to take care of but now I'm back. I will be reapplying to the CF because I did not qualify for the Infantry on my first visit. Does someone know how high you have to score to become an infantryman? I know irs not much but the math killed me on the test. I did good on the other portions of the test. I qualified for a cook or a steward!! Laugh it up   I was also wondering if I can't pass for infantry again this time through and I become a steward because I can't cook for crap  is it possible for me to transfer into infantry later ion because that is what I have my sights set on!!! Thanks all and I hope everyone had a great holiday!! Thanks for all help


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## silverbach

I would like to know how the test is administered...

1) is it done on paper or with a computer ?
2) is is separated in three (or more) parts or you do all of the parts at once and they give you a delay of, let's say, 45 minutes ?


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## kincanucks

silverbach said:
			
		

> I would like to know how the test is administered...
> 
> 1) is it done on paper or with a computer ?
> 2) is is separated in three (or more) parts or you do all of the parts at once and they give you a delay of, let's say, 45 minutes ?



With a computer and each part follows the other without delay.

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/aptitude_test_e.aspx


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## kincanucks

armyrules said:
			
		

> Hey everyone sorry haven't been on in a LONG time but have had a few "challenges" to take care of but now I'm back. I will be reapplying to the CF because I did not qualify for the Infantry on my first visit. Does someone know how high you have to score to become an infantryman? I know irs not much but the math killed me on the test. I did good on the other portions of the test. I qualified for a cook or a steward!! Laugh it up   I was also wondering if I can't pass for infantry again this time through and I become a steward because I can't cook for crap  is it possible for me to transfer into infantry later ion because that is what I have my sights set on!!! Thanks all and I hope everyone had a great holiday!! Thanks for all help



You can't transfer if you don't meet the CFAT for the trade.


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## Dog

gregorydewolfe said:
			
		

> anyone know how I can find out through the website what all the MOC codes are.  I did very well on the cfat but got these papers saying what jobs I can do, but they might as well have given it to me in german becasue they are all codes and I have no idea what most of these jobs are.  I tried the CF website and found some answers but couldn't have about half of them even tried to search by the numbers or whatever but no luck there either.  I'd like to do this research at home instead of at the center.



As of the time when I was sworn in they were changing from MOC numbers to MOS ID numbers. 

eg. infantry used to be MOC 031, now it's MOS ID 00010

Silverbach..... are you seriously not going to bother searching for the answer? It's been covered in detail in a pile of threads.

Since I'm feeling generous, and am just on tonight to kill time until I can go for a run without puking a burger all over the place (nice image, huh?), I'll tell you:

Depending on where you are, you either do it on paper, or you do it on a computer. A few people I know of have recently taken the paper test, but it's quickly becoming a relic. Count on a computer.

You do the test in three separate timed sections, one after the other. If you are given 15 minutes and are finished in 10.... you wait until 15 minutes has passed.


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## NavComm

silverbach said:
			
		

> I would like to know how the test is administered...
> 
> 1) is it done on paper or with a computer ?
> 2) is is separated in three (or more) parts or you do all of the parts at once and they give you a delay of, let's say, 45 minutes ?



Have I missed something or is there some new rule to life that says one must know absolutely every little wretched detail before one commits to any endeavour? Gee whiz, take a plunge, do something blindly, live on the edge.

Here is your answer:

1) technically both
2) yes, yes and no

And here's a little known fact: I'm pretty sure the pen they give you is one of those invisible ink kinds.  :


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## aesop081

NavComm said:
			
		

> Have I missed something or is there some new rule to life that says one must know absolutely every little wretched detail before one commits to any endeavour? Gee whiz, take a plunge, do something blindly, live on the edge.



The technical term is "afraid to leave mother syndrome"  :


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## Pea

Is it new that the aptitude test is done on the computer? I remember doing mine on paper only.


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## Fishbone Jones

silverbach said:
			
		

> The technical term is "afraid to leave mother syndrome...
> 
> ...you know AESOP081, there are wonderful gagets in these forums, like that icon that leads to the profile of the guests and members...if you would have known that, you would have seen that I am 9 years older than you...son !



Age is not relative to knowledge, personality and maturity.


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## aesop081

silverbach said:
			
		

> The technical term is "afraid to leave mother syndrome...
> 
> ...you know AESOP081, there are wonderful gagets in these forums, like that icon that leads to the profile of the guests and members...if you would have known that, you would have seen that I am 9 years older than you...son !



Mr silverbach,

I'm fully aware that you are older than I, i did look at your profile.  My comment however was not specificaly aimed at you ( it was indirectly however) but more in general terms to the 15 and up crowd who must know exactly how many thumbtacks the will be issued on the second hour of day 2 of BMQ.

That being said, is it necessary for you to know every single detail of the CFAT before writing it ?  i'm sure that in your 39 years , you have written many tests and can pretty much figure it out !!

SON ?  i have no desire to start a flame war with you.  You may be older than I, but after 13 years in the military, you have not earned the right to lecture me or refer to me as son.

Good luck on your application.


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## designer05

I found this website.  I wish I found when I was writing my CFAT.
http://www.publicserviceprep.com/public/CanadianForces.aspx


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## CallOfDuty

LOL..........well sailor, what did your dad say?  LOL ;D


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## ps387

I'm sorry...but what a crock!
Judging by the graphics (looks like a marine to me) and the copy "... Canadian Navy, Army, and Armed Forces" this site does not belong to anyone who has any first-hand Canadian military experience. So how they are going to help you "pass each stage of the Canadian Forces recruitment process." is beyond me.
Save your money and review advanced grade ten math and english. Take FREE online tests if you want, because that's likely all they will providing you anyway. As for interview, medical, etc., you have the best resourse you could hope for right here.

Cheers


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## Wodansson

I was going to order this, but realized how easy it is to get information on the net. I failed my first aptitude test, and the recuiter told me that it was my math that dragged my overall scores down. It's easy to brush-up on your math, but if you're like me who's math capabilities are non-existant, you'll have to devote yourself 100% to learning the math, and focus on nothing else. Take my word for it: The hardest part on the CFAT is most definately the math. But if you're hungry for it as much as I am, then it's no issue, just takes concentraion, time, practise, and a hell of alot of patience. Do what needs to be done, and everything will fall into place, and the rewards will be incredible. 

Jason.


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## polo

Even if it is practical..it costs WAY TOO MUCH, I practiced with a book that was $20, aptitude testing book from Indigo and I did perfectly fine. There's no reason you need to waste 98$. Plus, if you're in the field and haven't practiced your math skills in a bit, does that mean you're going to get your declinations all wrong and get everyone lost?!?!? Just do the test and don't worry, they want to see how well you can think on an everyday basis, not necessarily how well you can think being bottle-fed for a week before. 
(Sorry about the rant  :-X )

Good Luck, it really isn't so hard.


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## Wodansson

Here are some helpful material for those have problems solving word problems. Visit these sites and get as much information as you can about these types of problems, and LEARN them! If you don't know how to do these concepts in the first place, you're likely to run into problems sooner or later in your military career. Please take my word for it and learn this before you write your aptitude test, but don't stop at that, do as much math as you can before you write your test. Learn your multiplications table, long division, and everything else that will likely be of use. Save your money and use what material you easily have access to

For rates, distances and time:

http://www.math.com/school/subject1/lessons/S1U2L3GL.html
http://mcraefamily.com/MathHelp/BasicWordProblems.htm

These are just a few that are really helping me. I also picked up a GED and SAT preperation book that are about 4 inches thick, and I will go through both of those thoroughly before I even think about rewriting my aptitude test. If you failed, it's either because you're not military material, or because you didn't know how to do it: SO LEARN! And don't cheat yourself or cut corners, I am sure the Military has no use for people like that.

If there's a will, there's a way. And the Army is all about will.
Jason.


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## watson

easy test..


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## projectile

i can give you some advice, I took it recently

know how to multiply and divide by paper and pen, the last time I did was in grade 3 and i forgot, i had to estimate my answers.

the english and spacial questions you can't really prepare for.


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## .Caliber

Hey guys, sorry for asking this question but i bet it has been posted a dozen times.   :

  I went in to do my App test and i failed, not by alot but enough to fail it 

  I would like to get this right this time and not go in so worryed about failing again.

 Are there any good websites? that i can run through Fake tests? Please don't post those websites with 2-3 questions.


Thanks in advance.

PM me if you like.


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## joshrain

hey guys, i just wrote my CFAT test a week ago, and i'm sorry to say that i only qualified for a cook. i enroled for 49th field regiment, and i needed a score that was in the 20's (can't remember) i failed by 1 point in the math, and this really pissed me off because i am not a stupid person, i have 70-80% averages in university level high school courses. now i have been talking with some recruiters about this option: i do my BMQ as a cook and complete it, than i leave and write my CFAT again to see if i score high enough for a gunner. what do you guys think of this plan, will it work. i'm waiting to talk to one of the recruiters, who is out of town unitl next week.
-
on a side note, i was talking with a buddy of mine, who is just about to complete BMQ, he said he is taking his basic, with a cook who has already wrote the test twice, and is writing it again. is this possible, is their really loophole to taking the test more than twice, because if there is, than it would ease alot of my worries, about not qualifing for my desired trade.
-
PLEASE HELP!


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## NiTz

I wouldnt recommend you join as a cook and try to remaster while you are NOT qualified. Some people I know tried to do this and it didnt work at all, theyre still on PAT plt waiting for their release. Don't forget that if you get in then release, you'll wait 6 months until you get released, then you'll have to wait another 6 months until you can apply again, then you'll wait another 6 months to be selected and enrolled. Think about it... it doesn't look very good from an employer's point of view, does it? 

Btw , don't even think about changing trades while you are not qualified, it's rarely possible. Everyone I know that tried this ended up releasing. Why don't you go get a teacher and try to get a mark high enough to be a gunner? IMO you should do things right first, rather than try to patch your lacks with solutions that will not make you progress at all. So  go get some lessons, score high enough on CFAT and then you'll be a gunner. To me it sounds like the most intelligent option.


Good luck!


Nitz


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## joshrain

thats what i think i'm going to do, i think i can pass the test easily next time because i know what to expect now nd it won't pressure me as much. does anyone have any comments on the person that is taking the test 3 times, how does that work?


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## George Wallace

Time to nip this in the bud.  Please read the Rules of Conduct for this site.  Also, Search CFAT and you will find tonnes of info on it.  For instance:

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT): Questions and Answers   http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

Just got the call for CFAT.   http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34855.0.html

CFAT PREP COURSE   http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37725.0.html

CFAT Testing     http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34069.0.html

CFAT didn't go so well..    http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32923.0.html

 CFAT - Questions??     http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30956.0.html

Hints to do well on the CFAT (aptitude test)     http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25548.0.html

.......and there are many more.


----------



## kincanucks

Don't think for one minute that something that is happening to another applicant should automatically apply to you.  I highly doubt that the other person is writing the CFAT for the third time unless there are extenuating circumstances in that person's particular case.  As to your case you have one more chance to write the CFAT and that is three months from your first attempt.  Start working on improving your chances for the next time and stop worrying about what is happening to other applicants.

DA


----------



## paracowboy

kin,

leave him be. Let him spend the next 3 months worrying about others, instead of actively trying to improve himself.

That way he'll never become *MY* problem.


----------



## ohdiesel

Hi there,

Can someone tell me if there are logic tables and questions in the CFAT?  Questions like those found on http://www.puzzlersparadise.com/onlinelogic/SpringCurtains.htm  ?

They are like truth tables.  I don't see them being used on the CFAT as they would take too long, but I did notice that the CFAT example site that the recruiter gave me had some of these tables in them.


----------



## kincanucks

ohdiesel said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> 
> Can someone tell me if there are logic tables and questions in the CFAT?  Questions like those found on http://www.puzzlersparadise.com/onlinelogic/SpringCurtains.htm  ?
> 
> They are like truth tables.  I don't see them being used on the CFAT as they would take too long, but I did notice that the CFAT example site that the recruiter gave me had some of these tables in them.



No but the other questions can be really scary.


----------



## ohdiesel

Canucks,

Thanks for the insight.   I'm shaking in my boots now!!  :crybaby:


----------



## Crewman011

I wrote the cfat 4 years ago and did my time in the armoured corps, and I'm now trying to get back in as Something more tech oriented, i got called today and was told the my first test scores were no longer good for the trade i wanted, does anyone know if the test has changed much in the last few years, also does anyone know much about the test scores and how they determine what trade we get.Having rewrite this test has got me more nervous than i have been in my entire life,as much as i enjoyed my time there i don't want to end up back in the corps  :'(


----------



## George Wallace

I doubt that the tests have changed much in four years.  Anyone who changes Trades must do it.  Tips:  Don't Panic and get hung up on a question, move on and do the rest, come back to it when you can.  Don't loose track of what question you are on.  You should do ok.


----------



## kincanucks

_was told the my first test scores were no longer good for the trade i wanted_

So you were Crewman and now you want a different trade.  So you made the cutoff for Crewman four years ago but you didn't score high enough to meet the cutoff for the trade that you want now. So if you want to be eligible for the trade you want now, you will have to rewrite the test or come back as a Crewman.  Sounds pretty straightforward and doesn't sound like the test has changed does it?

HH


----------



## 17thRecceSgt

Crewman011 said:
			
		

> I wrote the cfat 4 years ago and did my time in the armoured corps, and I'm now trying to get back in as Something more tech oriented, i got called today and was told the my first test scores were no longer good for the trade i wanted, does anyone know if the test has changed much in the last few years, also does anyone know much about the test scores and how they determine what trade we get.Having rewrite this test has got me more nervous than i have been in my entire life,as much as i enjoyed my time there i don't want to end up back in the corps  :'(



I just did the CFAT in June, and was trying to score high enough for a "tech" trade also (226).  My advice, for what my own little experience with it, and what I believe helped me, was reviewing math, specifically fractions.  The spatial stuff was a bit hard on the head, but you can't really prep for that, IMHO, so...math it was for me.

And, I started with the basics, to confirm, and then got going on the fractions.  I can honestly say I used this website too.  Laugh if you will, but...my score was good enough on CFAT to qual for all NCM trades, so it worked for me.  Maybe it will help you, too.

http://www.coolmath.com/fractions/index.html

That was my starting point...5 years after completing college.   ;D

PS - I wrote the apptitude test wayyyyyyyyyy back in '89 when it was paper and pencil, so the trade I wanted didn't even freakin' exist then.  Yup, I was nervous too.  I went thru the "what if I don't score high enough for ANYTHING and I have to turn my kit in?"    ;D


----------



## Chaz

I took the test two weeks ago.
Get this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0768910765/sr=1-1/qid=1155228308/ref=sr_1_1/002-4038039-8096050?ie=UTF8&s=books
Without it, I would have failed again. 
Good luck to ya laddy!


----------



## bravo2824

Derek said:
			
		

> The problem isn't stress at all, sorry I didn't really specify what my problem is. I just haven't done good on the numerical ability part of the CFAT. I do good on everything else. I am going to study some more math, I just dint see how me doing not to well on the math section would make me fail?
> 
> Anyways I am fully aware of all of the resources available to me to prepare Just wondering if there is if any way to get a waiver on if I do not do very well on the numerical ability section of the test!
> 
> Thx again.
> 
> Also thx Mcpl PPCLI for your input....its appreciated!



Yes i had the same problem when i first took the test i blanked out and forgot how to do even the simple math problems, i was 16 at the time and am now turning 22 in oct. I'm re-writing the test in a few weeks and have been studying my math like crazy so as long as i dont get to nervouse and stay calm i should be good  when i did the practice test i recieved a 76% so i'm hopeing thats good enough to pass the actual test. not to sure if you did that test but it be a good idea i just cannot remember the address to it


----------



## v4nity

Ok, I may sound completely stupid here, but i did find the thread about CFAT but couldnt post to it? So please dont bash me for asking again, because after reading most of that thread, i am officially terrified. 

- I am pretty aweful at math, what grade math should i study to prepare myself for the test?

- How many can you get wrong wtihout failing?

- Is it true that if you fail you cannot join for one year?



please dont just tell me to read the other forum, this is like, the only thing i have ever wanted in my whole life, and reading this site is scaring the shit out of me!

thanks guys...


----------



## muskrat89

> the only thing i have ever wanted in my whole life,



If it's all you've ever wanted to do, then reading some other threads and posts on this very subject doesn't seem like a very big deal.


----------



## pylon

v4nity said:
			
		

> please dont just tell me to read the other forum, this is like, the only thing i have ever wanted in my whole life, and reading this site is scaring the crap out of me!
> 
> thanks guys...



First and best advice is to learn the site.  Look under recruiting and read everything you can find that has the words CFAT in it. Do a search... You'll find tonnes.  And yes, that means using your well polished public education to read...

You can't reply to those threads as they are locked. (with a padlock) No one can reply. They are there for your information, not for more discussion. The moderators and other members are here to help you. But , first and foremost, you have to help yourself.

There is an absolute wealth of information in old threads, you just have to read.  Grab a coke/beer/whatever, settle in... and read... read everything you can.  Take the next 2 or 3 days to learn this site in and out.  But I think its safe to say, do not post anything until you are up to speed... *Cough* andpaidyourmembershipduesinfull..  ahem....

I spent the first month on this site learning it before I even created a username.  And I still keep my mouth shut....

Good luck and good READING...  



kc


----------



## kincanucks

- I am pretty _aweful _ at math, what grade math should i study to prepare myself for the test?

- How many can you get wrong _wtihout_ failing?

- Is it true that if you fail you cannot join for one year?

Just awful at math? :'( :'(

If you don't meet the cutoff for your chosen occupation(s) you have to wait three months until you can rewrite.


----------



## patrick666

A couple sites for those waiting to do their aptitude, I suggest reviewing them for your benefit. 

www.math.com - great site that explains mathematics in a simple, easy to follow and learn manner. 

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm - a practice aptitude test to exercise your mind. 

Best of luck.


----------



## Magravan

You should do better in the verbal section, since now you know which words to look up in the dictionary... Math, you've just got to study the stuff based on what you didn't understand before, and spatial ... well.. That one is a lot harder to study, in my opinion... When I was doing it, I just tried to use the scrap paper to try to simulate the shapes... Not sure if it helped or hindered, to be honest


----------



## Burke69

i took an IQ test and got a 132, how well will i do on my CFAT?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

With attention to detail like that you will fail miserably.

I left you a note here.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/53200/post-481107.html#msg481107


----------



## Klc

Mojo Magnum said:
			
		

> The sheet you receive back will say All Trades, or Everything or the like.



That is, if you actually get a sheet; because I know I sure didn't.


----------



## 63 Delta

Burke 69,

Why are you asking about the CFAT if you are already in the 11th field Regiment? Another question, why does your profile say you live in Chilliwack? Isnt the 11th field Regiment in Ontario? Maybe you can clarify that.

Thanks.


----------



## Zell_Dietrich

StormTrooper said:
			
		

> Just a random question. Does anyone know how long the list of trades would be if someone got 100%? I did my cfat 1.5 years ago, and my list was 2 pages long.



After I did my CFAT I was told I qualified for everything. I was told a while ago (somewhere) that pilot was the one that required the highest score so I asked "even pilot" and a 5 minute Monty pithon scene ensued with "you want to be a pilot I can make that happen" and "everything everything?" I think it ended with "Oh you're applying as an officer, gee I can't tell".  I was really really sleepy because I had to pull an emergency all nighter for school but I distinctly remember him telling me that the results don't expire, so if I ever want to change my vocation I wouldn't have to do a rewrite. (I saw my score, I didn't get perfect)

To answer your question I didn't see a list of trades, I was just told "everything" and "you'll never have to take the test again".

Now for the math part:

Number sequences - the secret most people want you to figure out is that you have to write down the differences between the numbers

so

3   7   12   18   25
 Looks fairly random until I write in the differences

3 (4) 7 (5) 12 (6) 18 (7) 25

So in the test,  write on a piece of paper quickly the number sequence and then write in the differences.  

For the other math part,  I found a good heaping of the questions dealt with grade 10 math.  http://www.stfx.ca/special/mathproblems/grade10.html <--easier than this

(I'm not saying this to you,  but to others who might read this thread)
One thing I have learned about the CF,  is that you will have frustrating setbacks trying to get in.  I've not met anyone who did not have a "recruiting nightmare story".  The ones in the uniform are the ones who like me stuck it out.   :brickwall:  <-- the wall does break.


----------



## kincanucks

_I was told a while ago (somewhere) that pilot was the one that required the highest score _ 

Actually AEC requires the highest score. The pilot cut-off is the same for all other officer occupations except AEC.


----------



## Burke69

Sorry about before, I was born in British Columbia but i live in Guelph now.  I mixed that up.  I am currently applying for the 11th field and have my CFAT on Tuesday.  So with a 132 IQ how will I do on the CFAT?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

No one can tell............IQ means nothing.


----------



## Burke69

But aren't aptitude tests and IQ tests close to being the same, only with a few differences? I'm going to practice and refresh my math skills also so in your opinion will i do well, taking into consideration my high IQ score.


----------



## George Wallace

Get over it kid.  Your IQ may be a lot less tomorrow, without a good nights sleep.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

I'm trying to be patient here........


----------



## kincanucks

Perhaps you want to hear it?

You will fail but don't worry you only have to wait three months to write again.  Feel better?


----------



## Burke69

It's a simple question and I was just looking for some help here.  I didn't mean to be so persistant.  Thanks for the help anyway.


----------



## SupersonicMax

Anyways, in my opinion, how well you do on the CFAT doesn't mean anything as long as you can get into the trade you want...  

IQ really means nothing...  Some people have 150+ IQ and are socially stupid.

Max


----------



## derael

Burke69 said:
			
		

> i took an IQ test and got a 132, how well will i do on my CFAT?



Ummm...I'm sorry but 132 is your IQ and your ICQ number? At least your profile says so... ???


----------



## Mithras

*@ Burke*:  I am a fairly intelligent person but I was the definition of brain dead the day I wrote the test. I never got my score but I am sure I did not do very well.  The math and English portions are fairly easy but if you aren't 100% for the test the spatial portion could be killer.  I thought I would do well on the spatial but to me it was like trying to read Chinese, nothing clicked.

That said I wasn't denied my trade of choice.


----------



## Burke69

Thanks, luckily I'm good with spacial stuff.


----------



## MedCorps

Hmm... the IQ Test versus the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test. 

There are some similarities and differences... 

The similarities:  Both are "standardized" tests.  This is a test that compares the writers performance in each topic on the test to a "norm" or criterion.  The "norm" is generally established using a huge statistical analysis of a large number of people who wrote the test.  

The differences:  The CFAT is a tool designed to measure your abilities, knowledge and skills.  The IQ test is a cognitive ability tool designed to measure the concept of intelligence.  Is intelligence one of the abilities, pieces of knowledge or skills the CFAT is trying to measure?  I would suspect not.  I base this on the fact that I have done both, and do not remember a large overlap in types of questions.  The IQ test is a very involved procedure.  An IQ test also could not be given at a CFRC because of they way the test is set up, and who is authorized to give it.  Thus, I would not say the IQ test and the CFAT scores are correlated (although it would be a neat study).  

Is IQ important?  Sure it is.  IQ is positively correlated with educational achievement (including school grades), the amount of money you will earn over a lifetime, the IQ of your partner, status in society, adult morbidity and mortality, and job performance.  If you want to know the actual correlations, let me know and I will dig it up.  If I remember, most are in the 0.40 range.  I have an article somewhere around here.   It does not measure the concept of "wisdom" or "social intelligence" which is a different concept as someone mentioned.  

That being said, is someone with a high IQ going to do better on the CFAT... maybe.  I would even go so far as to say probability.  But it is not a sure thing.  

Assuming a score of 132 is correct (based on a proper test, given by a qualified professional, and NOT an Internet or self-test) you would have an IQ score in the top 2% of people in the world (the 98th percentile cut off is an IQ of 131 - the 15th standard deviation).  You are also qualified to join Mensa International... if you care.  

So... there are my meanderings of the day.  Back to work. 

MC


----------



## spud

Burke69 said:
			
		

> Thanks, luckily I'm good with spacial stuff.



Here is a nice, simple definition of aptitude from Wikipedia; not always the greatest source, but it summarizes it nicely. 

"An aptitude is an innate inborn ability to do a certain kind of work. Aptitudes may be physical or mental. Many of them have been identified and are testable" 

I don't understand why people get their underwear in a knot over this test, it's not a skills test. It's not so much what you know now, but what can you be taught down the road. You're going to be on course, preparing for course, looking for a course, or dreading a course for your entire military career; they just want to measure if you can probably learn what they're going to teach you. 

 Dude, don't worry about it, just have a Kit Kat and go write the test. Seriously. It'll be fine. 

potato


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

> i took an IQ test and got a 132, how well will i do on my CFAT?



How would we know? What was on this IQ test? Who wrote the IQ test? How does it compare to the questions asked in the CFAT?

Really, I would say you can brush up on your math skills but the rest....you either have it or you don't. The most important thing is how you go about taking the test in my opinion. Good luck.


----------



## blacktriangle

I took an iq test and got 66.

I was told by my teacher that if it were a genuine test, I wouldn't be able to pass his class.  >

I scored well on my aptitude test, and was told i qualified for all trades. I remember seeing a sheet, but that was months ago. I suppose if I ever wish to change trades, say in the next 2 or so years, I'll see it again?


----------



## tlg

spud said:
			
		

> Here is a nice, simple definition of aptitude from Wikipedia; not always the greatest source, but it summarizes it nicely.
> 
> "An aptitude is an innate inborn ability to do a certain kind of work. Aptitudes may be physical or mental. Many of them have been identified and are testable"
> 
> I don't understand why people get their underwear in a knot over this test, it's not a skills test. It's not so much what you know now, but what can you be taught down the road. You're going to be on course, preparing for course, looking for a course, or dreading a course for your entire military career; they just want to measure if you can probably learn what they're going to teach you.
> 
> Dude, don't worry about it, just have a Kit Kat and go write the test. Seriously. It'll be fine.
> 
> potato



"If he's deserves a Kitkat, you do too" haha

on a serious note, spud is right. It's how much you can learn, although I don't believe it can tell how fast you can learn it.


----------



## Yrys

MikeG said:
			
		

> Who wrote the IQ test?



I don't think there that many IQ tests circulating...
It seem a tedious process to elabore and test one...
I saw only 2 when I did my degree in psychology, 
but much more personality tests (was more involve
with student council, so I may have missed a few things)


----------



## honestyrules

I remember when I did my test, I thought that it didn't go very well...
I didn't have time to complete the test. Freaky!
They didn't give me the result, they said you're OK with the trade you put in for...PH TECH 646.
Anyway, I found out years later that I scored a 75 percentile on that one, and I could have qualified for pretty much 80% of the trades.

To me, the fact that the test is long is just to add up a little bit of stress to the mix. Then, who knows how they score, what is the exact importance of each sections of the test...
Me being so used to use a calculator when I was a student ( grade 7 when we started using it), I had to quickly remember how to calculate by hand. Not pretty!

Thrust yourself, and work on the Maths! 

Edited for typos quite a few times! :'(


----------



## Magravan

Do the math work, and then do what you would do before any major test / exam. Being awake and alert and not hung over will take you through half the test, because part of it you either know, or you don't. Being able to figure out which of the two applys might mean the difference between a pass and fail when times starts ticking down and you're forced to make random guesses.


----------



## SeanC

I would suggest a site called Public Service Prep (http://www.publicserviceprep.com/)

I registered for $140.00 CDN, and it gives you a year subscription to use their practice CFAT exams as much as you want.  They had 5 practice exams for each part of the test.  It was a big help considering I only had my Grade 10 math back in highschool.  I found that the practice exams on the site were actually more difficult than the exam itself.

I think I did fairly well on the test considering when they gave me the sheet with all the trades I was eligible to apply for it was filled from top to bottom..


----------



## Burke69

Wow, that sound's great.  I'll keep that in mind in the future.  I took my test on Monday and i aced it.  Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## officer.phil

I didn't see the exact sheet with my scores, but my career counselor told me during my interview that I qualified for my trade as a SigOp. He mentioned that my Verbal and Spatial ability wasn't too good, but I had about a 66% on my math section....which is odd I found especially when he mentioned that I was close to qualifying for the ROTP. To be honest, I wasn't exactly prepared, and I was scared that I flunked my Verbal and Spatial. I don't know how they mark this test but hey, I passed lol.


----------



## Samsquanch

You paid 140$ to write tests on-line? I've been told there are similar practice tests for free. There are links to these tests on this web site. I've also been told there is a sucker born every minute. ;D


----------



## NavComm

Was I supposed to study for the aptitude test? Just kidding!

There are many free online tests. So, before you go paying $140 (hmmm my spidey sense makes me wonder if he's got shares in that company) remember: Google is your friend.

Personally, I thought the aptitude test was easy, but I know many people struggled with it. I hadn't been in formal school in about 20 yrs when I took the test so I brushed up using online ability tests and challenging my friends to take them too (as a gauge).

My understanding is: depending on the trade you are applying for, you require different scores. So use the 'search' button on this site and try some online tests if you're worried. Good luck.


----------



## Klc

Yeah, I took some of those free online practice exams, which are many times harder then the actual test. 

All it did was give me an idea of what I was going into. Did it help me? Not one bit. Calmed me down a little beforehand, but did NOTHING for preparing me.

Which is a good thing, because if they wanted you to study for the test, they would have issued you a study package.

The way it was explained to me was that the entire point of the test was to check learning potential. That is, to see how quickly you can process information.

It just seems to me that studying for the test and getting a higher score then you normally would could bite you in the arse if you get a occupation that has far too much information for you to process in the time given. You end up frigging yourself before you even start. (It was explained to me that a fairly high score was required for courses requiring POET [for example], as the course had a large volume of information which was required to be taught in a very short timespan)

The best advice I heard about the CFAT was to use an exam mentality for preparing for the test. Well rested, well fed, hydrated, and mentally awake (I woke up at 4am to be sure that I was fully awake for the test).


----------



## George Wallace

SeanC said:
			
		

> I would suggest a site called Public Service Prep (http://www.publicserviceprep.com/)
> 
> I registered for $140.00 CDN, and it gives you a year subscription to use their practice CFAT exams as much as you want.  They had 5 practice exams for each part of the test.  It was a big help considering I only had my Grade 10 math back in highschool.  I found that the practice exams on the site were actually more difficult than the exam itself.



I think you got snookered.  I went to a Government of Canada site and did a sample test there this weekend for free.  It is marked and scored at the click of a button when you finish and you can print it out.  All for free.  

For further ideas on how to study or practice for these tests, do a SEARCH.  These topics have been covered before and some good links provided to all kinds of practice tests, including IQ Tests for those so inclined.


----------



## SeanC

Actually to be honest, I would rather pay the $140.00 and get practice exams that are exactly the same format as the CFAT then to do some free online iq test that is most likely nothing like the actual test.  

To each their own I spose...


----------



## derael

It's not an IQ test. It tests aptitude in pretty much the exact same areas that the CFAT will. I have taken both and the test that GW suggested to you will help and also save you $140.00.

There is also plenty of advice on these army.ca forums as well that I found useful. It just takes a bit a time to search up...much better than wasting $140.00. 

You're right though...to each his own. If thy wants to waste his money; thou shall.


----------



## Magravan

Something that increased the chances of passing the pilot program, I would consider worthwhile... Because retesting is -hugely- expensive... Testing for the CFAT, which you can retest for free after a certain period of time, I'd rather just take tests 'like the CFAT' for free...


----------



## Elwood

What I recommend to pass the CFAT:

1) Read and understand at least two novels considered to be good literature (Hemmingway, Callaghan, Austen, Dickens, Atwood, Odaatje, et-cetera.) If you want a really high score, go with Milton or Shakespeare.

2) Know Newton's laws of physics.


----------



## BernDawg

Yet another amusing anecdote.  When I wrote mine (too long ago to mention here) I missread the title of the section about mechanical comprehension.  I thought it was titled mechanical compression and went into a tail spin.  I thought "Jesus just what does a grunt need to know this stuff for!".  After I read the first couple of questions I settled down and re-read the title (and of course felt like an ass).
     As it turns out I didn't need to worry as I did very well on the test any way. (Still chose Infantry though.... Go figure!)


----------



## Klc

> What I recommend to pass the CFAT:
> 
> 1) Read and understand at least two novels considered to be good literature (Hemmingway, Callaghan, Austen, Dickens, Atwood, Odaatje, et-cetera.) If you want a really high score, go with Milton or Shakespeare.
> 
> 2) Know Newton's laws of physics.



And while your at it, make sure you know the atomic weights of the entire periodic table of elements, and the alphabet in at least 3 languages....  :

[edit: spelling error. I knew that looked wrong, but spellcheck didn't pick it up and I decided to be lazy]


----------



## aesop081

Klc said:
			
		

> And while your at it, make sure you know the atomic weights of the entire periodic table of elements, and the *alphabit* in at least 3 languages....  :



Obviously you did not follow your own advice .........


----------



## Elwood

Klc said:
			
		

> And while your at it, make sure you know the atomic weights of the entire periodic table of elements, and the alphabit in at least 3 languages....  :



No, I just recommend those two points. Forget the Einstein and Quantum physics stuff.

Oh, and Klc... maybe knowing how to spell alphabet!?!  :


----------



## spud

cdnaviator said:
			
		

> Obviously you did not follow your own advice .........




And suddenly the only sound heard was the chirping of crickets.....


----------



## Klc

The point I was trying to make was that I think those will help you just as much as what others had suggested...

And what does a spelling mistake had to do with taking my own advice? I defy you to find the spelling of that in the periodic table.  ;D


----------



## Mithras

The CFAT is easy.  Don't spend any money, it is not worth it.

If you are nervous about the test just do some simple math problems, read.. basically keep your mind active.


----------



## Samsquanch

I have a web site being constructed this very minute due to high demand. You can give me 140$ and I'll ask you skill testing questions. Then if you pass I'll accept another 140$, and I'll send you a home made diploma made with the lastest version of microsoft works. It certifies you have positively been suckered into paying me 280$. :


----------



## SOLID SNAKE

I kinda failled my Test they told me to do better in math and English I feel like such an idiot. Is there any sites that i can go to for help cause i would make such a good  :warstory:


----------



## George Wallace

SOLID SNAKE said:
			
		

> I kinda failled my Test they told me to do better in math and English I feel like such an idiot. Is there any sites that i can go to for help cause i would make such a good  :warstory:



Looks like someone gave you some good advice.


----------



## Elwood

SOLID SNAKE said:
			
		

> I kinda failled my Test they told me to do better in math and English I feel like such an idiot. Is there any sites that i can go to for help cause i would make such a good  :warstory:



Yes, the CF kinda needs such good  :warstory:'s. Your high school might be such a good site for help to make such a good  :warstory:.


----------



## George Wallace

Just a small point: This is Army.ca not "Army for Dummies".  We do not have that Trademark nor Franchise.  In today's military, you have to be fairly well educated and literate.  If you are not, you will find it hard to get in, and then advance in any Trade you may have been selected for.


----------



## IslandBeach

Hello I am looking to find out if there is anyone doing the CFAT test in FEB.. 2007

I'm Looking for some help with the math.  I failed my first test by 2 marks I was told.. 
I really want to get into the CF... I'm 37 and redoing math ...
Well next time I will pass it I know that ,, If you want something bad one will do what he has to - to get it.. 

I have spent 60.00 on the books that was suggest to buy, GED and one other..
GOD I HAVE TO PASS..

Thanks.


----------



## old man neri

There is a 25+ page thread stickied at the top of this board. Here it is.


----------



## old fart

IslandBeach said:
			
		

> Hello I am looking to find out if there is anyone doing the CFAT test in FEB.. 2007
> 
> I'm Looking for some help with the math.  I failed my first test by 2 marks I was told..
> I really want to get into the CF... I'm 37 and redoing math ...
> Well next time I will pass it I know that ,, If you want something bad one will do what he has to - to get it..
> 
> I have spent 60.00 on the books that was suggest to buy, GED and one other..
> GOD I HAVE TO PASS..
> 
> Thanks.



Invest in this baby...trust me...you will sail through if you work through this.

It's for the US, but at the end of the day, Yank, Brit or Canadian the tests have many similarities.

http://www.amazon.com/Practice-Armed-Forces-Test-Vocational/dp/0671847864/sr=8-1/qid=1166671303/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8062624-3689438?ie=UTF8&s=books

http://www.military.com/ASVAB

All in all it will be a good refresher...675 pages of fun!!

All the best and merry christmas...


----------



## ark

If you need help with math probs you can drop me a pm with a specific problem and I will see what I can do. Keep in mind that I will most likely not be available until January the 1st.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

Save some money and visit <a href="http://www.math.com> math.com </a> in addition to the thread that old man neri provided. Good luck!


----------



## Elwood

Do all the calculations in your head when you go through your Math book. If you really need to, allow yourself to use a scrap piece of paper. Obviously never use a calculator, because you won't get one on the test.

Math should be your main focus when you study, but remember not to ignore the other subjects as well...


----------



## kincanucks

News Flash!!  It will be the same test that you wrote the last time so if you didn't take some time to write down your problem areas then save your money and go buy some lottery tickets.  Better chance at the lottery than passing the CFAT.


----------



## old fart

ArtyMike said:
			
		

> Save some money and visit <a href="http://www.math.com> math.com </a> in addition to the thread that old man neri provided. Good luck!



The type of books recommended will certainly be of use, particularly if you have been out of high school for a wee while; as I had been when I wrote them for the first time.

Similar stuff to the UK.

But what do I know...I defer to your experience!  Merry Christmas.


----------



## Mithras

kincanucks said:
			
		

> News Flash!!  It will be the same test that you wrote the last time so if you didn't take some time to write down your problem areas then save your money and go buy some lottery tickets.  Better chance at the lottery than passing the CFAT.



Well the math portion was his problem area.. I don't see how he can be faulted for trying to improve his overall math ability.

I don't really have anything to add to what the others have posted above, it is pretty sound advice.  Just don't get overly stressed about this, do what you can do to be prepared and go in confident.


----------



## Audun

Hi, was gonna post this in the big CFAT test thread till I realised it was locked, ha. I hope its not a problem to start another thread for my specific question anyways. I apologise if it is tho. 

I had to call early this morning to reshedule my test (It was to be taken at 9 am today) due to a nasty bit of sickness that I seem to have picked up, I really didn't want too but I figured its best to reshedule now rather then go in sick and do badly because of that then either not being able to get into my desired trade or just fail completely and not get in at all for three months.

All in all, the smart decision right? The reason why I decided to make a post about this is that on the CFAT thread I saw mentioned several times that people who reshedule are forced to wait months for a new test? Is this true? I truely want to get this done as soon as possible and get in, I didn't even consider this before and its to late to change it now obiously but will I be waitin for them to call me back for like a month? :|
If not, whats the general amount of time that you have to wait for them to call them back?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Romulus

It's safe to say that you'll be contacted within a month, i failed my CFAT the first time and i was called on the 3month mark. to the day actually. I was just wondering if anyone who had to retake the CFAT did the exact same test again, or do they have some kind of rotation?


thanks.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt

There might (read "probably will") be varying lengths of waits for the rescheduled CFAT depending on the CFRC you are dealing with and how busier they are.

Best advice?

Call your CFRC and ask them how soon you can get in for the test.

FWIW, I think you made the right decision to put it off if you knew you weren't at 100% or close to it.


----------



## Danjanou

Ok question asked and answered and thread locked.


----------



## steve_10509

Hey. I wrote the CFAT way back in October 2006. Scored high on it, and qualified for pilot and everything below. I discovered a helpful website before I wrote. Its "http://www.publicserviceprep.com/" It gives you 5 tests designed very similarly to the actual CFAT. (Also gives you some other tests for other jobs) All of the tests are timed as well which is great. After each test, it tells you what the correct answer is, and how to get the correct answer. It's fantastic for revamping math skills, and DEFINITELY helps your mind get ready for the tricky spatial awareness questions. It's slightly expensive, but money well spent. They offer a money back guarantee as well. If you fail the test, you just have to get proof of it. I'm not sure if the CF will give you that, because they won't even tell you how you scored on the test. Anyways, hope it helps at least one person out there.


----------



## Gimpy

steve_10509 said:
			
		

> Hey. I wrote the CFAT way back in October 2007. Scored high on it, and qualified for pilot and everything below. I discovered a helpful website before I wrote. Its "http://www.publicserviceprep.com/" It gives you 5 tests designed very similarly to the actual CFAT. (Also gives you some other tests for other jobs) All of the tests are timed as well which is great. After each test, it tells you what the correct answer is, and how to get the correct answer. It's fantastic for revamping math skills, and DEFINITELY helps your mind get ready for the tricky spatial awareness questions. It's slightly expensive, but money well spent. They offer a money back guarantee as well. If you fail the test, you just have to get proof of it. I'm not sure if the CF will give you that, because they won't even tell you how you scored on the test. Anyways, hope it helps at least one person out there.



Its very suprising that you wrote the CFAT way back several months in the future, and also that as you're first post here you decided to promote a near $200 service. For the love of god do not spend $200 on information for the aptitude test. There is tons of free content on the internet that will help you as much if not more than expensive services.

Here is one of the free ones I used:
http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/tests/mathstest.htm
This one is a math specific aptitude test and its very helpful, I used it prior to my CFAT and managed to score in the 97th percentile. Very helpful site.

Also if you follow the site back to the root of the tests:
http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/psychotests.htm
Here you will find 6 other specific aptitude tests that will help you in other areas. I didn't use these because I was very confident in the language sections but they could definitely be very helpful if you are unsure about those topics.


----------



## steve_10509

Human error. The human race is not perfect. I was not forcing my preparation tactics on you, or anyone else. I simply posted a response to a question. It is an option, and some people may choose to use it and others may not. By the way, 127 is closer to 100, not 200, and "it's" requires an apostrophe in the context you used it. Smarten up, try not to be so disrespectful, and read the code of conduct that you agreed to.


----------



## Gimpy

steve_10509 said:
			
		

> Human error. The human race is not perfect. I was not forcing my preparation tactics on you, or anyone else. I simply posted a response to a question. It is an option, and some people may choose to use it and others may not. By the way, 127 is closer to 100, not 200, and "it's" requires an apostrophe in the context you used it. Smarten up, try not to be so disrespectful, and read the code of conduct that you agreed to.



The $127 deal is only for 9 more days and then after that its back to $197 and they say its fully refundable if you fail and you don't recieve a physical copy of your CFAT so if you fail thats $200 wasted. There are plenty of free sites on the internet for which you can study without spending $200. I don't see whats so disrespectful about pointing out an obvious waste of money. Even if you don't want to spend that much money there are places on the net that will help you for under $50. Oh and thank you for pointing out my stupidity because I forgot to add an apostrophe  :.

Futhermore on examing the site you gave while it may not be so obvious it is a very shady website. It says 100% risk free, but only if you abide by their many rules.


			
				PSP said:
			
		

> 1. Refund request must be submitted within 30 days of receiving your test results and is limited to one refund request per client.
> 2. You must submit by email or fax a copy of your test results from the PSC or government agency you applied to indicating that you were unsuccessful.
> 3. You must have completed a minimum of  five (5) practice tests you are studying for and not performed any practice tests after the date of the testing, which you failed.
> 4. If you are preparing for more than one exam, you are only entitled to a 50% refund unless you fail all exams for which you are preparing.
> 5. Refunds will be mailed to clients within 15 business days after refund request has been assessed. PublicServicePrep reserves the right to omit, change or edit the terms and  agreement at anytime without advance notice to it's clients.



So you must get a physical copy of you're CFAT, which they won't give you. You have to practice a minimum of 5 times, and you're not allowed to take another practice after you've failed the CFAT. Thats ridiculous, if you paid $200 for a service why shouldn't you be able to use it as much as you want. The whole site is very shady and I doubt that its worth the $200 spent.


----------



## MediTech

Dear Mods,

Please close this thread.  It's going off topic.  I think the first poster answered this guy's question.


----------



## steve_10509

It never goes up to 197. It's been at that price since last August. It isn't a shady website. They have technical support as well, and have many books published by the same company. (Ex, One for the RCMP) The refund policy isn't only based on if you fail. If you're unsatisfied, they refund your money. They offered to refund my money given that it doesn't work with Mac OS. I don't see how spending the money from one day of work on something that will help you get a career is a waste of money. If you fail, big deal. I'd rather fail knowing that I did everything that I could to prepare. Do people not spend tens of thousands of dollars on a university degree without a guaranteed job at the end? Seems as though, in your opinion, a degree is a waste of money as well. Honestly, I don't see why this is such a big deal to you. If you feel that your arrogant opinion is something that everyone has to hear about, then become a politician.


----------



## amyliak

Hi All,

I've been cruising this site for a year while going through the recruitment process and would like to thank everyone for their helpful tips.

I have seen a number of inquiries re: the study tips for the CFAT. Before writing the CFAT myself I had read in the Ottawa Citizen (sorry , don't remember the date) that applicants to any of the federal employers, Canadian Forces included, improved their aptitude grades by an average of 15% if they had gone through the test once before being graded on it. Armed with that handy stat I went out and purchased an aptitude test workbook (Chapters $20) and worked through the exercises for a few weeks before writing my test. In the areas which I was already skilled it made little difference; however in the areas which needed improvement I increased my scores by 100% in a three week period through practice and familiarization.

Furthermore, I was not happy with my times solving problems relating to geometry so I went on to some geometry websites (high school level) and played around there for a while. This proved incredibly helpful as it had been years since I'd taken high school math and all those theories I'd learned years before came back to me quite quickly.

After all was said and done I performed beautifully on my CFAT and when I went for my subsequent interview the fact that I had gone to lengths to prepare myself for the entire recruiting process was viewed favourably by the team which interviewed me. Upon completion of my recruitment process I was offered a position which was even more exciting and challenging than the one I had originally applied for.

In my experience the Canadian Forces are not only looking for the bright candidates, but more importantly, committed personnel who are willing to stretch their strengths and combat their weaknesses to perform most effectively for the good of their country.


----------



## kincanucks

Amazing but nothing new.  A test designed on Gr 10 Math and English shouldn't be difficult for anyone with Gr 10+ education.   Perhaps we can get this appended to the other 40 million+ pages of CFAT nausea?


----------



## Blackthorne

steve_10509 said:
			
		

> If you feel that your arrogant opinion is something that everyone has to hear about, then become a politician.



He's free to express his opinion just as you are. I found none of his posts to be insulting or outside of the code.

YOU are coming off as a whiny bitch.


----------



## steve_10509

You didn't, I did. Some people are so disrespectful. It's disgusting.


----------



## jbloom

To anybody who is worrying about taking the CFAT, I would tell you don't worry just study.  I just came back from doing the test and I passed and qualified for all the trades. 

At first I was so worried.  What helped me was taking the advice of others on this site and studying.
Take those online tests and you'll be prepared for the CFAT.  After doing the gov't test for a couple days,
I stopped worrying, because I was doing well on them and felt confident. Trust me you'll do fine If you study and practice.

Personally I found the CFAT easy. I really can't believe people failed this test.


----------



## stealthylizard

When I had first taken it back a few years ago, I never had a problem with the math.  My problem was with figuring out the gears.  I don't know what my score was, and as far as I know, I wasn't disqualified from any trades.  We all have our strengths and weaknesses.  Just find out what your weak spot is and work on that specific area.


----------



## steve_10509

I ordered the public service prep. It's legit. It mostly helps you wrap your brain around the idea of spatial awareness. They're all timed and stuff. I did the CFAT awhile ago, and found Public service prep fairly helpful. You can probably find other stuff on the internet for free, but  public service prep gives you a lot of confidence going in. My friend used the same company for preparing for the RCMP aptitude test. He's a constable now.  You can spend the money, or not. Just depends on how bad you want the job lol.  Approx 130 bucks in exchange for a dream job? Sweet deal


----------



## amyliak

Hi All,

Is the CFAT the same for officers and NCM's?


----------



## Nfld Sapper

amyliak said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> Is the CFAT the same for officers and NCM's?



[sarcasim] What you think it would be different?? [/sarcasim]

CFAT is the same for everyone applying to the CF


----------



## Franko

This thread is now locked.

Usual caveats apply.

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## JamieR

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, come one come all, time for another drawn out Cfat thread!  

Actually my intention is to ease some minds, so for the folks who are about to undergo the game of fear, I would like to give some hints and tips of the do's and dont's. 

When I went in for my CFAT my recruiter gave me a web address to a "Practice Cfat" Which was actually a pratice GCT Level 2, testing general aptitude for what I assume as some government jobs. I scored fairly low in this (66) and was worried about it so I went in to talk to my recruiter and he said if I scored 66 then theres nothing to worry about. Problem is most of the practice questions in the math section I took guesses at , not knowing how to get the equasion to get the correct answer. My mistake was not studying math after this point. *Math Is VERY important* I hear this echoing in my head from junior and senior high school teachers.. back to the story,


So I took the CFAT and its harder then what had been provided in the pratice GCT and the pamplets, was I in over my head. I was given a list of very limited trades that were available to me and told I can take the test ONCE more, but if I fail then I loose the jobs available to me now,  and I cannot take the test again unless serious upgrading is proven. So then the recruiter gave me a very useful site www.Math.com This will teach you addition , subtraction, division , multiplication of fractions, and decimels and percentage. Which is the bigest thing you *will need* After spending two weeks testing myself on this site and relearning highschool math and taking every practice aptitude test I could find on the net(and this site) I went back wrote the test for the second and final time. When I walked in I almost threw up and asked to speak to the recruiter I spoke with before, to tell him I think im going to take whats available and not risk re-doing the test. He wasent available so I went in the test room when It was time, after some very sweaty first few questions everything went by as a breeze and I qualified for all trades.

They say you cant "learn aptitude" the practice of simple math allowed me to pick the carrier I want and open up my future for more movement., Also a nother thing, If you go in and get a low score on the CFAT, and you just take one of those trades available but plan to switch later on, you can only switch to somthing you had already qualified for!

If you have a weekness in math or dont remember fractions and decmels, take the time, If you do what I say and what many on this site have said you wont have a problem in the math portion. a few hours a day or night or weekend is well worth the carrier you want !!


Sorry for starting another CFAT thread. but I hope this post may help some people out on my mistake  Take the time, Learn the math, As for the folding shapes, its a bit harder to learn that stuff, but you can find many practice tests on the internet that will help in your ability to pick them out.


----------



## gaspasser

I don't know why there is so much stress over the CFAT.  I've taken it twice and scored very high in all categories.  Just go do it and don't stress out about your answers, it is a test to determine what you are best suited for and the interview mor or less determines what interests you.  So that you can choose an appropriate career path.
My 0.02 worth.


----------



## Mike Baker

Good post. I have done the pratice one many times, and done very well all the time.


----------



## JamieR

I didnet know why there was so much stress to the CFAT eather, 

until I took it and didnet get the trades I wanted. Then there was stress. It basically comes down to your math knowledge (for me anyway) so that's why I posted this thread, for others who may be like me and had a weakness in math. If you dont remember the items I listed above (Multiplying, dividing, adding/subtracting decimals, percents, and fractions) then you will have to learn.

Congrats on doing well on yours


----------



## gaspasser

What trade were you trying for?  



...and please use spellcheck and proofread.
Thank you.


----------



## JamieR

I was actually applying for a operator trade Nesop "Naval Electronic Sensor Op" I don't believe it requires much math. But I don't have any experience in this trade yet to make that call. The score on my math portion was more important to me because of the ability to change to diffrent trades in the future if I would like (example, Aesop, Airborne elec sens op, AVS Tech, etc...)


Sorry for spelling, its been a long day here.
very long.


----------



## aesop081

JamieR said:
			
		

> Nesop "Naval Electronic Sensor Op" I don't believe it requires much math.



Anything dealing with EW involves math.........


----------



## JamieR

I figured after I posted that.


----------



## SweetNavyJustice

You'd be surprised how little math NESOP's use.  I used to be one, and I can't think of any time when we used math.  There was a bit back when we actually calculated balistics, but we don't do that any more.  

I agree that on the EW side if the NESOP's were actually analyzing the signals there would be math involved, but for the most part this is done by the computers or further up the food chain at CFEWC and NEWC.  So really, no math.  

On your 5's there is pulse train analysis, but this comes down to more physics than math.  

Anyhow, just my 2 cents as an x-NESOP.


----------



## xtreme

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to the forum.  I have some advice for those that are preparing for the CFAT or think the CFAT is "easy."

The truth is, the CFAT is EASY.  However, it can be DIFFICULT if you don't do the following things.

1.  Brush up on MENTAL MATH.

Why do I say this?  In 2002, I wrote the CFAT.  I passed it, however I did not qualify for Officer.  It was unfortunate beause I had my officer interview beforehand (which I passed) and passed the physical etc..  I thought the CFAT was a sure win given my education background and over-confidence.  The "sample" questions they give you are nowhere as close to the real difficulty of the test.  

Now what may interest you is the following. 

26 years old.

My educational background is in Engineering, and I am currently a Physics teacher.  My mathematics and physics is actually quite good.  I'm a good problem-solver.  However, my problem on the CFAT was that my mental math has been destroyed after being reliant on calculators for years to make solving problems quicker.  Solving complex problems, sometimes makes many of us ignore mundane computation (ie; arithmetic) in order to focus on conceptual thinking.

When I encountered the CFAT.  I found myself spending too much time on simple division and computation!!  I wasted SOO much time on these little tasks, because it was the very basics that I used to ignore, although solving advanced problems for me were easy (given a calculator).  I did not even practice or try to prepare for it (CFAT), due to over-confidence of my background and academic history.  I even went out to a huge party the night before the test, got plastered and what not.  --- BAD IDEA in hindsight!  I was also pretty tired and hungover before writing the test.  But still, nonetheless very confident.

So the moral of the story.  Even an Engineer/Physicist can mess up the CFAT (for their desired occupation!)  

Luckily this happened years ago.  I plan to re-apply again, but this time with a VERY DIFFERENT attitude.  The sad thing when I was doing the CFAT was that I've done many harder questions than those in my life, however without a calculator and being under a time-limit those "easy" questions were harder than any physics question I've done.  The questions would have been REALLY EASY (word problem solving) if I simply had a calculator to speed up my time.  Time was the factor that I lost control of, not solving the actual problems.  SO PRACTICE YOUR MENTAL MATH AND DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THIS!!  This goes out particularly to the engineers, scientists and etc..  I know many of us that walk in too confident when we hear that the aptitude test is at the level of Gr10 Academic Math.  Well that math can be quite difficult, if you're not used to math without calculators!


----------



## 1r4AD

no offence man, however,

I think this test is designed in a way that you can't really study for it other then basic prep. If you wan't to serve your country do it in a way that they deem you can do it at its best! That is what it is designed for!

I am no expert and am in waiting for basic training but don't fret it. I think most people do poorly on the test due to undue stress. It is not meant to trick you into a trade that is under your abilities. Just relax and do it.

Best of luck my friend.


----------



## xtreme

14RAD,

I don't agree with you.  I believe you can prepare for it.  In the sense that you can become aquainted and familiar with the style of testing, questions, time limits and test-taking strategies.  The truth is, referring to my teaching experience; based on my students' performance increases and decreases; marks and learning are positively correlated with practice and homework.  The practice will definitely improve your performance in terms of speed.  I'm sure if you did some math drills everyday for one month, it will have a better effect on your score than if you were to sit around and watch tv all day.  

Time is of essence in this test.  The questions are not difficult, and I am sure many people could even score perfect if given an extra few minutes here and there.  What will break you is if you waste time in the little tasks of arithimetic for a question (say on paper), like for example..

This is not a CFAT question, just making it up.

If Tony had $15 and invested it at a rate of 5% at the end of each year, how much money would he have at the end of 4 years?

This question isn't difficult.  You would Multiply $15 * 0.05, the result of that would be added again to $15 for a new amount.  That new amount would be multiplied by
5% and then re-added to the total and so on..(i.e. 4 iterations)

We know how to do the question.  But the problem most test-takers are going to have is, calculating the $15 x 0.05 (without a calculator).  They know that is what they have to do (i.e. the method which is correct), but HOW to compute that without a calculator may not be easy for some.  If given a calculator, this question can be done in seconds. 

just a tip for everyone.  The easiest way to calculate that is by doing  15 x (5/100).  So do 15 x 5, then divide by 100.  So 75/100, which would be 0.75

This is where I think the CFAT lacks.  It is testing alot of computation skill and not conceptual skill.  If the CFAT allowed calculators, they could easily raise the bar in terms of difficulty of the problems because less time would be spent on computation and more on actual problem-solving.  Then I think real aptitude can be measured.  The truth is in at least the Ontario School System today, mental math isn't really emphasized anymore.  You will see students that will pick up calculators to do 2+3.  It is not because they don't know how to calculate 2+3, it is due to lack of confidence and ease of use (i.e. the calculator) that is essentially making students reliant on calculators even for the most basic of tasks.  I am also guilty of this.  It's a product of laziness not aptitude.

But you are right about the fact aptitude testing is designed to see what trades/careers you may be best suited for -- but it can only be accurate if you perform to the BEST of your potential -- and the only way to do that is through at least some practice.  

I am really big on the practice part, because when I first wrote the CFAT (although I passed), I did not qualify for Officer.  And it has alot to do with the fact I walked in with the attitude that I didn't need to prepare.  Big mistake.

The more test practice, in a test situation you do, the more accurate (and better) your overall result will be.


----------



## xtreme

Correction.  75/100 i mean 0.75 not 7.5!!


----------



## 1r4AD

Really derailling and I will stop after this but when I say basic prep, I mean basic math skills you, along with any other high school student are responsible for knowing. Everyone needs a little refresher in these.

I am unsure what I can safely say about it but many of the math problems are more then they appear and are rarely just math problems as you have described. Its not the math they are testing you on but problem solving. 

Just relax man. I have taught chemistry myself and, as a chemist confident in my math skills, I didn't prep at all and got all trades. Maybe you are getting too caught up in the numbers and not reading your problems clear enough.

Basic math review and a calm clear head. That will get you through. Anything else is too much and your just burdening yourself.

I have little experience conveying complex thoughts over typeface so I hope this comes across as suggestions and not criticism!

You can do it bro! Good luck on future endevours!


----------



## JamieR

ok ok ok
I agree with both of you. you CAN study, and you CANT study, for certain things.

one thing you CAN study for is the math, relearn the math with a quick refresher like I said before, it made the diffrence from a hand full of trades to all of the trades for me.


----------



## stealthylizard

They don't allow calculators, because some times, or even a lot of time, you will not have one available in the field.  They have to be sure you can do the calculations in your head or on paper.  Especially comes in handy when figuring out declinations for map and compass work.


----------



## xtreme

Yeah but I also do believe that in the field.  You are more likely to encounter problems more complex than simple fractions, multiplication and division.  In that case, you give me a simple pocket calculator and I can be deadly on the battlefield.  Anyhow, that isn't my point.  What I am referring to is that we can raise the difficulty of problem-solving and conceptual thinking to a meaningful level if a simple calculator was provided (perhaps the CFAT should have another subtest on problem-solving where calculators are permitted, to determine the ceiling scores of problem-solving.)  They could easily do a study/comparison analysis on how scores are affected when given a calculator and without.  You will find that some students that actually do poorly on basic math without a calculator may do exceptionally well with one on complex problems, and perhaps better than test-takers that do well without a calculator (on basic math).

If someone asked me to calculate the distance an object lands when thrown at a certain velocity with a certain height and angle against wind conditions, and the time it takes for the entire process to occur, this for me is extremely easy.  This is a pretty realistic problem too, however without the use of the calculator, this question can be almost impossible to do (if for example you are given non-ratio angle like 51.67 degrees).


----------



## Flouf

I think the problems you may be having is that you are getting too hung up on getting the actual answer. 

The test is multiple choice for a reason... ie if you are given a list of answers, all of which are odd except one, and the question is asking you to multiply an odd an even number the answer should be obvious. 

You can eliminate answers based on how large they are too... we are looking for realistic answers ie: if you are calculating your urination range, and you find the answer to be 30m, then it must be off... unless you are a superstud like me. ;D

Just stay cool and think about what you are doing, after all there is plenty of time to complete the test. If you get stuck you can always go back to the problem later.

Good luck.


----------



## 1r4AD

Flouf, you are exactly right. That is what I thought i was saying but oh well. THey are not testing oh my god can person x calculate this fraction in so many minutes wowowowow!!! They are testing your problem solving ability. You have to reason with what you are given to get an answer. Many of the questions involving numbers can be solved with no calculations or simple addition. You just have to use your head.


----------



## xtreme

I agree with you guys that it is important.  But I don't really think it accurately measures problem-solving ability as opposed to computational ability, which are entirely two different things.  Sure even solving simple fractions is a form of "problem-solving", but what I am referring to more are questions where conceptual thinking is more emphasized as opposed to computation.  Many questions on the CFAT are very computation based.  Sure logical guessing is a great way to problem-solve, but what about the guy who can do advanced physics and trigonometry with the help of the calculator, versus a guy who can't given a calculator but is only good at basic math -- because that was the highest level they actually studied.  I hope this makes sense.  It is more likely that a guy who can do advanced trig will have no problem, but the issue lies that we've become so accustomed to using calc that sometimes when I'm lazy I find myself picking up the calculator to do some basic multiplication.  For this reason my basic math skills are actually no good, but my advanced math skills are exceptional.  (hence why practice is important) because those with advanced math skills are obviously more likely to master basic math if they just go back and practice a bit.  keyword : practice.

But thanks for the good luck and wishes it is really appreciated.    Right now, my focus is on mental math and that's it.  Just need to pick up on speed. 

Here are my IQ-test.com scores.  Notice something.  So the guy who said I spend too much time thinking about the answer -- You are RIGHT.

Here is the scale.

Intelligence Interval       Cognitive Designation 
40 - 54 Severely challenged (Less than 1% of test takers) 
55 - 69  Challenged (2.3% of test takers) 
70 - 84 Below average 
85 - 114 Average (68% of test takers) 
115 - 129 Above average 
130 - 144 Gifted (2.3% of test takers) 
145 - 159 Genius (Less than 1% of test takers) 
160 - 175 Extraordinary genius 


The break-down based on each type of intelligence for my scores.  (Although these scores and online IQ tests don't reflect anything, it is still interesting to see the breakdown).
Anyone else is welcome to share theirs as well.

Arithimetic  :  130
Spatial Skill:  122
Logical:  116
Spelling:  136
Short-Term Memory:  118
Rote Utilization:  133
Algebraic: 130
General Knowledge:  120
Visual Apprehension:  123
Geometric:  121
Vocabulary:  114
Intuition:  112
Computational Speed:  24

Overall Score:  115

Notice that my computational speed is 24.  Yes that is not a mistake.  Maybe the website/program made a mistake not sure because that looks a little way toooooo low compared to everything else.  Because of the computational speed 24, my overall score drops to 115.  Otherwise, even with say an average computational score of 100, my overall score would be 122.  Clearly there must be something wrong with me or the test/program.  In summary, I am very accurate and because of my accuracy my speed is reduced.  Chances are if I learn how to increase my speed, I may be able to increase the rest of the scores as well.  My vocabulary score may be due to the fact that English is not my first language.  Which is another beef I have with the CFAT, because Verbal reasoning for the most part is not culture-fair.


----------



## xtreme

I got an idea, not sure if someone has done this before already.  But I think this idea may be great and we can all get together and decide how we want to do this.

Pick an IQ test, we will all agree to what IQ test should be the benchmark for our scores.  All existing members of the CF will then write this online test (preferably free).  Then in a poll on this forum, they will select out of a list what their trade/occupation/qualifcation/rank is, and connect it to what their IQ score is.  This way nobody has to reveal what their own personal score is, because the average of scores (on the poll) would yield the final score for that trade/occupation.

So if you have written the CFAT already and got the list of trades you qualify, select the "highest/hardest" most trade you qualified for as a way to "round-up."

This way, we can get a rough idea approximation the type of score you should get on this FREE iq test in order to qualify for any particular trade/profession in the CF based on the existing members.  Of course the more people (larger sample) that participate in this, the more accurate and correlated our results will be.

This would be a good way before you write your CFAT to get an idea what you might actually qualify for, based on what existing members of the CF have qualified for.

Who's in on this idea?  I think it might actually work.


----------



## tree hugger

Could we have graphs and have everything colour coded?


----------



## stealthylizard

I scored low on that test as well.  If you read the fine print, it tells you something about paying, and it will give you your real adjusted IQ score.  I only got a 98, and yet I take the one at tickle.com at i score 136.  Huge difference.


----------



## xtreme

I don't see why not.  Unless there are technical limitations on this site, it can easily be done on a different site.

I think it would help alot of new people considering the CF to have an idea where they may qualify before actually taking the risk of writing it and losing a chance right off the bat if they are disappointed with the results.  Because doing poorly on the CF or not qualifying for what you hoped for can be very discouraging.  Last time I wrote the CFAT was in 2002 (I passed but did not qualify for officer), it has taken me almost 5 years since then to pick myself up again and try it again.  It shot my ego quite a bit, considering my educational background is engineering.


----------



## FredDaHead

So the whole idea of this is to mollycuddle future applicants so their precious egos isn't hurt when they fall on their face and realize they're not the beautiful and unique snowflake their mom told them they were? Boo-frickin-hoo.


----------



## George Wallace

Do YOU Wonder why we have 114 Pages Here ?  is the problem with so many people coming to this site and not bothering to look at what has already been posted.  So once again we have two new topics on CFAT, with all the old questions are being rehashed, all the pointers being given, including the reposting of the links to practice tests, and of course now we need to do a survey....... :


----------



## tree hugger

...but George, we can have graphs!


----------



## George Wallace

Only if they are animated pie charts.............................


----------



## tree hugger

Golly gee - I sure hope so!  That colour coding will be fun!


----------



## xtreme

George,

I understand there are 100+ pages on this topic.  And I have done some searches and have found some stuff.  But keep in mind, there's alot of outdated information in those 100+ pages that have members whom haven't posted in a long time.  Perhaps a completely seperate section on the board for just the CFAT alone might make organization of these topics a little easier (perhaps by topic title?).  The idea is to try to help that's all.


----------



## George Wallace

There are a couple of very good topics on CFAT.  Diluting the site with hundreds of topics on the subject defeats the purpose and makes it very hard for anyone to find what they want to find, further diluting the site with more repetitious questions.


----------



## xtreme

Freddy G,

Not sure, you sound a little bitter about that.  It's not about "mollycuddling" at all.  It's about knowing where you stand at the very present moment, so when you do take the dive into the deep end you are ready and know where to prepare.  

I have found personally that the more I practice (for speed), the more my speed improves and thus my overall score also improves.  I guess the reasoning behind that would be that I am left with more time to actually think about the problem itself, as opposed to wasting the time in mundane computation.  

My main goal is essentially to speed my mental arithimetic to the point that it is easier for me to do it all in my head than to run to a calculator or writing it down.  If I can raise it to that level, I know for most CFAT questions I can basically look at the question and know the answer.


----------



## George Wallace

Perhaps it is time to re-enforce the following:


Welcome to Army.ca. Here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.

*Army.ca Conduct Guidelines*: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions


Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.



[Pay close attention to the points on how to use SEARCH.]


----------



## neko

And military members would want to do this because...? 
And even if they did, how would they know which occupations require the highest scores?
And the highest scores in what part of the test?
And for this exercise to have any value at all the free test would have to be very similar to the CFAT.  
Which means that people who have written the CFAT would have to find a test that is very similar. 
Why would they?
Why wouldn't they? Well because anyone who has written it is instructed not to tell anyone what is on it or discuss it with anyone outside of the room.  


Really the recruiters give you enough information about it. They tell you what level math to study and I don't think there's much you can do to improve ones spatial ability. If you don't do well enough the first time, study up and try again, choose a trade you did qualify for or just follow the advice of the recruiters whatever that may be.

I had a bit of a laugh when I read this, honestly why would you think that anyone should do all this for you or other potential recruits.  (rhetorical by the way)


----------



## DEVES

Xtreme,
Not A bad idea but whats the point? Just study for the test and do it. The current CFAT topic section has lots and lots of posts on the same questions. also it provides tons of information on getting prepared. Its a test to see what trades you can possibly succeed in. Just study check out other posts then go from there. Oh and if you have a question or an idea just post it in the CFAT section.

Goodday.


----------



## willy

On the plus side for xtreme, someone sure should tell him that CFAT be damned, he qualifies to hold high-level positions in NDHQ based on his ability to find an answer in search of a problem.

Top marks for being able to come up with a cumbersome, labour-intensive procedure to solve a problem that nobody in the CF even knew we had.


----------



## deedster

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Perhaps it is time to re-enforce the following:
> 
> 
> Welcome to Army.ca. Here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.
> 
> *Army.ca Conduct Guidelines*: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html
> 
> MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html
> 
> Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446
> 
> Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html
> 
> FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412
> 
> Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html
> 
> Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
> 
> 
> Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
> Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf
> 
> Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html
> 
> Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced
> 
> Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)
> 
> Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
> 
> 
> To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.
> 
> 
> 
> [Pay close attention to the points on how to use SEARCH.]


0
There it is again!  Love it  
DO IT


----------



## Michael OLeary

xtreme said:
			
		

> I got an idea, not sure if someone has done this before already.  But I think this idea may be great and we can all get together and decide how we want to do this.
> 
> Pick an IQ test, we will all agree to what IQ test should be the benchmark for our scores.  All existing members of the CF will then write this online test (preferably free).  Then in a poll on this forum, they will select out of a list what their trade/occupation/qualifcation/rank is, and connect it to what their IQ score is.  This way nobody has to reveal what their own personal score is, because the average of scores (on the poll) would yield the final score for that trade/occupation.
> 
> So if you have written the CFAT already and got the list of trades you qualify, select the "highest/hardest" most trade you qualified for as a way to "round-up."
> 
> This way, we can get a rough idea approximation the type of score you should get on this FREE iq test in order to qualify for any particular trade/profession in the CF based on the existing members.  Of course the more people (larger sample) that participate in this, the more accurate and correlated our results will be.
> 
> This would be a good way before you write your CFAT to get an idea what you might actually qualify for, based on what existing members of the CF have qualified for.
> 
> Who's in on this idea?  I think it might actually work.



1.   Picking an IQ test won't work; general aptitude testing is more than just an IQ assessment.  That's why it's not called the CFIQT.

2.   Trying to build a scale of trade vs IQ is a faulty premise because it presumes that the list of trades is arranged solely by IQ (see point #1).

3.   CFAT results may determine the list of trades an applicant is eligible for, but a wide variety of personal factors also influence the choice(s) after that.  Trying to create a model based on an onlione IQ test won't capture those elements of personal choice.

4.   Every takes the test as a civilian applicant, rank at the time of your later measurement is immaterial. 

5.   Personal development since being recruited may give a different result than the person may have achieved the day they took the CFAT.

6.  Unless someone very recently took the test, they won't remember all of the trades (or the "highest/hardest" trade) they might have qualified for.  Not everyone immediately goes to that choice, see point # 3.

7.   The CFAT and the range of trade choices (and the requirements for individual trades) has evolved over time, any sample from a number of years of testing will not provide consistent comparison data.

I think it would be a collosal waste of time and effort on the part of all potential participants, creating an unscientific collection of data with no solid evidence that it might help anyone.


----------



## neko

xtreme said:
			
		

> My vocabulary score may be due to the fact that English is not my first language.  Which is another beef I have with the CFAT, because Verbal reasoning for the most part is not culture-fair.


You need to be fluent in either French or English to be in the military  and the CFAT can be taken in either language. Seems fair enough to me.


----------



## aesop081

xtreme said:
			
		

> My vocabulary score may be due to the fact that English is not my first language.  Which is another beef I have with the CFAT, because Verbal reasoning for the most part is not culture-fair.




Quit your damned whining about the CFAT.  English is not my first language and i did just fine. Looks to me like you speak english well enough to have no excuse.

Yet another individual going through life waving a sign saying "its not fair"

Seek life elsewhere......


----------



## George Wallace

".....it's not fair"  Are we starting to talk politics now?  

"Come on Stefan.......life is not fair."

Darn Liberals.



 ;D


----------



## Fishbone Jones

With everything posted here, and with all the other threads on CFAT, I see no reason to continue this thread. Normal caveats apply. If you're not ready to do the test.............we can't help you here. Go back to school, or study some more, until you think you're smart enough to be a soldier......then challenge the test. If you fail............study some more, and try again.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

OK. I'll be the bad guy. We've CFAT'd the site to death. There's pages and pages on it in past threads and archives. If you can't search and research those, for your answers, you're probably not smart enough to pass the CFAT. This thread is closed. No caveats on this one.


----------



## evilcat

hey y'all i just got my date set for the aptitude test and trying to find a way to practice, any suggestions? since the following sites they give you to use are down www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc/gct2_test_e.htm and                    www.psc-cfp-gc.ca/ppc/grt_test_e.htm the following comes up when i try to access the sites. Skip to English content | Passer au contenu Français Error 404: File Not Found 
The file you have requested cannot be found on this server. Please check the URL to ensure it is correct, or take a look at our main menu to find what you are looking for. If the problem persists, please contact the server administrator: infocom@psc-cfp.gc.ca 
Erreur 404 : Fichier non trouvé 
Le fichier désiré n'a pu être trouvé sur ce serveur. Veuillez vous assurer de l'exactitude de l'adresse URL ou consultez notre menu principal pour trouver ce que vous cherchez. Si le problème persiste, communiquez avec l'administrateur du serveur à l'adresse suivante : infocom@psc-cfp.gc.ca 
Date Modified: 2007-01-05 
 any ways thanks evilcat


----------



## aesop081

Ok...because you are new here ( welcome BTW) i will make an effort to be unusualy nice,

Take several minutes to look around the site, specificaly here :

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

This ought to get you started, since your question is a common one.

I will also advise you to use the search function provided on this site. A simple search for "CFAT" would have provided the answer you are looking for and, without a doubt, others you might have.

milnet.ca staff


----------



## xtreme

I am available to help.  I am a Physics and Math teacher and I am qualified by the University of Toronto to teach
Math from Grade 9-12 (Basic, College, University) and as well I am an electrical engineer.

I know many are preparing for the CFAT and have difficulty with math (some have been out of school for years) and others that haven't graduated from highschool.  No worries, I've taught hundreds of highschool students and I know exactly how to teach you.

I also have written the CFAT and I know what to expect. 

Don't hesitate to contact me even with the most "simplest" or "hardest" of questions, I'm glad to help you out.

Just leave me a PM and I can help.


----------



## Canadian2cool

then you know you cant tell anyone what questions are on it right?


----------



## xtreme

I'm just here to help people on specific questions they have.  I will not volunteer questions or guide them with any particulars.

If you have a math question, just ask.  If it is the kind of question found on the CFAT, that isn't my problem, as long as I am not the one that brought the question up.    

I am glad to answer all questions, even if they are on the CFAT, as long as you don't tell me it is a CFAT question.  If you do, I will not answer it.

Answering math questions is my full-time job anyways.


----------



## George Wallace

xtreme said:
			
		

> I'm just here to help people on specific questions they have.  I will not volunteer questions or guide them with any particulars.
> 
> If you have a math question, just ask.  If it is the kind of question found on the CFAT, that isn't my problem, as long as I am not the one that brought the question up.
> 
> I am glad to answer all questions, even if they are on the CFAT, as long as you don't tell me it is a CFAT question.  If you do, I will not answer it.
> 
> Answering math questions is my full-time job anyways.



Sorry but "Ignorance of the Law is no excuse."   Any Lawyer reading your above statement would tell you the same.  You are proposing a 'criminal act' and hoping that you can use your lame excuse as a defence.  Wrong!


----------



## Testify

Take this scenario. 

A student is in grade 12, and his math teacher prior to becoming a teacher was a member of the CF.
I ask him for help on a math question, and he knows I'm going into the CF.  

Does he help the student?  Or say nope, can't do it!

Just curious.


----------



## ark

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sorry but "Ignorance of the Law is no excuse."   Any Lawyer reading your above statement would tell you the same.  You are proposing a 'criminal act' and hoping that you can use your lame excuse as a defence.  Wrong!



I did my CFAT many years ago and for sure do not remember precisely any of the questions on the test (I doubt many people do). According to you, if someone comes to me and asks me to solve a question that he took from the test, I could be in trouble? Keep in mind I don't remember any of the questions on the CFAT and he does not tell me it comes from the test.


----------



## Brett

xtreme;

It was very kind of you to offer your assistance like that. I'm sure you'll come in handy. however it is critical that you inform anyone wanting in the cf some of the math problems on the test. I had a problem my first time around, and I had 10 days to learn basic math!

To everyone; 

  math on the cfat will surprise you. If anyone gives assistance, such as xtreme, don't detail it. Teach basic division and decimals/fractions.

There are many problems in the math section, and they forumlate the questions differently in the questions so you would think that each question is a different aspect of math. Study every chance you get. Don't say "I did math last semester and got an 84%", that doesn't change a single thing. I was decently skilled in math in highschool, so I thought I would be fine. But people most of the time forget that in math class, they had the wonderful aid of a calculator. Get used to * not using one* because you're not allwed one on the test.

Good luck to you all.


----------



## deedster

I recently did the CFAT and was informed, in no uncertain terms, that nothing about the test was ever to be discussed.


----------



## Keebler

I did it back in Sept 06 and was advised the same thing...to not discuss outside the room at ALL.  Helping getting a base knowledge in math is one thing, advising what types of questions to study is another.  Id consider that cheating.


----------



## George Wallace

As are all who have done the TEST.  As has been mentioned in nearly every Topic on CFAT that has been posted on this site.

Do we need to go any further?

The usual CAVEATS.

L O C K E D !


----------



## russianfrontphotos

I wrote the CFAT this morning. I'm 37 and have a university degree and work in a professional field and man, it was a lot harder than I expected. I was nervous going in and I am still a bundle of nerves after. There was no "slam dunk" section. The math part was hard. You have a lot of time pressure there and its easy to get bogged down on one question at the expense of giving the other questions enough time. Study basic math over and over. I thought I'd know how to do it all (I studied up a bit in advance) but some of the math questions were trickier than I thought they'd be. Thank god I finished the last part a few minutes early and had a chance to go through and review some of the tough ones and ended up correcting 3 in the last minute.
In any case I passed. Thank god, I would have been embarassed if I didn't.


----------



## BernDawg

Wouldn't need math in the infantry?  Lets see my young paduan... 8 rifle men x 5 mags x 30 rnds ea x 4 grenades  you starting to get the picture cause I can go on about the WRM rule next if you wish.

Good Luck.
Bern


----------



## SupersonicMax

BernDawg said:
			
		

> Wouldn't need math in the infantry?  Lets see my young paduan... 8 rifle men x 5 mags x 30 rnds ea x 4 grenades  you starting to get the picture cause I can go on about the WRM rule next if you wish.
> 
> Good Luck.
> Bern



X4 grenades doesn't make sense to me 

Max


----------



## private_007

8 rifle men x 5 mags x 30 rnds ea x (4 grenades) = all of em dead


----------



## BernDawg

Lets just say that I've seen Pl WO's with great honkin' white boards and pocket calculators figuring out the re-org. Nuf said. Math is important to all trades and therefore is no small part of the CFAT.


----------



## Brett

It seems we've lost Derek.

I wonder how he is doing, and I also wonder if he ever took the cfat again and passed.

Anyway, Derek if you read this I happened to fail my cfat the first time I took it. I was embarrassed, yes, because many people constantly say "it's so easy, you'll pass". I felt like a complete idiot.

however, that shouldn't be an excuse to just give up. After the cfat, I was pulled into an office and informed that I didn't qualify and that I could either accept a waiver, or obtain 2+ yrs in post-secondary. 

I didn't want to wait that long so I took the waiver, and a month later I had my cfat again. This time I studied harder. I was so motivated to show up everyone at the recruting center and to prove to them that I could take something that I failed, turn it around, and pass it with flying colours.

You can do it, just keep at it.


----------



## Le_Quebecor

I suck really hard at math (I don't do calculus, etc.), will I be failed? :crybaby:


(Moderator edit to correct spelling of and clarify title.)


----------



## Michael OLeary

You might, math and spatial concepts are on the CFAT according to reports here on the forum.  (My own CFAT was far too long ago for me to remember any specifics.)  Suggestions have been made that getting some General Equivalency texts and doing a diligent review of the math at high school levels may help.


----------



## niceasdrhuxtable

I don't remember anything as advanced as calculus on the CFAT (admittedly, I did mine 5 years ago). I think the furthest it went was simple algebra with a heavy portion of word problems. I had some difficulties with the spatial reasoning section but that's something you can practise. I think your best bet would be to go to the recruiting centre and ask them what sort of skills are assessed and if they have any recommended areas of study.

Some trades require higher CFAT scores than others so your entry will be dependent on what you decide you want to do.


----------



## hammond

Hey there, the new cfat now has an additional advance reasoning/logic/problem solving section (or something like that). When I went to complete my cfat we were submitted to the new addition, but it appeared to be a combination of the first sections albeit a little more on the spatial side. I was really worried about the math section as well and prior to taking the CFAT I looked over the many pages on the test in the recruiting section and worked on mental math, as the calculator has been glued to my fingers through my school. I also found the following sites to be extremely helpful.

http://xpmath.com/ebooks/files/mastermath.pdf  This is a book that you can download that describes how to preform word problems step by step ranging from simple distance problems, to percents and beyond. 

http://math.usask.ca/emr/menu_arith.html This site helped me increase the speed of my mental calculations. As the CFAT is a timed test, these exercises were very helpful.

There are many other sites to help, I suggest you read through the thread on the CFAT in the recruiting forum.


----------



## aesop081

Locked

We've been over this countless times, theres a 40-page thread on CFAT and its still growing

Le_Quebecor ......please start looking around the site before starting new threads on the same old stuff, please

milnet.ca staff


----------



## Michael OLeary

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html


----------



## hyland84

Derek,

I'm in the same position as you.. I wrote my CFAT July 31 and didn't qualify for my specific trade (TRAFFIC TECH). So the Captain that talked to me said that usually you can rewrite the test in 10 days, but since my problem was mainly with the problem solving he told me he was going to give me 30 days to brush up on the math and send in a waiver for me to write the test again. So I've been taking the chance to study up by getting a gr 10 math text book and finding a friend to help me practice the problem solving because he did well with that subject.

If you have any advice for me, I would be greatful or if anyone else can help me. 

Hyland84


----------



## SchroederKW

I also have recently written my CFAT, I didn't fail it, but however I want to go into a specific trade and fell short only a few points. My problem solving and spatial ability was excellent, however my verbal section i only got a 5 out of 15. The recruiter told me I could look at another trade or write it again and hopefully bring up my verbal. I know verbal skills are something you either have or dont have, but does anyone have any suggestions in which I could use while answering the questions?

KS


----------



## kincanucks

SchroederKW said:
			
		

> I also have recently written my CFAT, I didn't fail it, but however I want to go into a specific trade and fell short only a few points. My problem solving and spatial ability was excellent, however my verbal section i only got a 5 out of 15. The recruiter told me I could look at another trade or write it again and hopefully bring up my verbal. I know verbal skills are something you either have or dont have, but does anyone have any suggestions in which I could use while answering the questions?
> 
> KS



Read a dictionary.


----------



## SchroederKW

WHILE answering the questions. ( I obviously can't have a dictionary with me  ).


----------



## Nfld Sapper

No start reading a dictionary now to improve your vocab.


----------



## angrydevil

I just recently completed my process into the CF. I missed the officer qualification by 4 points. According to the recruiter in Hamilton there is a 4 points of error or something like that. If i came back after I got my degree, I would be eligible for officer. I was wondering if that is true.


----------



## George Wallace

Having a degree has little to do with the CFAT.  It is an APTITUDE test, not a knowledge test.  Do you have the aptitude to do a certain job, not whether or not you have a piece of paper to hang on your wall.


----------



## Shamrock

angrydevil said:
			
		

> I just recently completed my process into the CF. I missed the officer qualification by 4 points. According to the recruiter in Hamilton there is a 4 points of error or something like that. If i came back after I got my degree, I would be eligible for officer. I was wondering if that is true.



If rewrite the aptitude test and pass, then yes, you would qualify.

And yes, it is possible to study and prepare for aptitude tests.


----------



## Shamrock

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Read a dictionary.



The zebra did it.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

Another "help me with the CFAT" thread? Outstanding. The 26 page <a href=http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html> CFAT thread </a> doesn't contain any useful information.


----------



## niceasdrhuxtable

I don't think I'd recommend reading a dictionary since your retention would be pretty low but you might try reading some more "advanced" literature (Ulysses by James Joyce immediately comes to mind). You'll probably spend an equal amount of time in the dictionary but you'll have a bit more context for how those words work and their nuances.


----------



## kincanucks

If you have an university degree then there is a possibility of a waiver for your CFAT results.  So when you get your degree go back and take it from there.  However, as the CFAT score is part of the total score that is assigned to you after you are processed and it is that total score that determines whether you get accepted or not then it is in your best interests to rewrite and obtain a very high score. Next time the recruiter tells you something perhaps you should listen to what they say instead of coming on here looking for confirmation especially with the two responses that you got were right out to lunch.


----------



## Lazarus**

I have just ordered the "30 days to the ASVAB (American version of our CFAT) Study Guide" from Chapters.
Reason being is because I have done my CFAT before and failed. What are your opinions on this book and what else can I do to prepare??


----------



## kincanucks

Lazarus** said:
			
		

> I have just ordered the "30 days to the ASVAB (American version of our CFAT) Study Guide" from Chapters.
> Reason being is because I have done my CFAT before and failed. What are your opinions on this book and what else can I do to prepare??



Hey whatever makes you feel better.  Recommend write down what you remember about the test, you practice your long division and fractions, read the Readers' Digest word power and play video games.


----------



## Doom

kin, are you serious about the playing video games part? haha?


----------



## kincanucks

Doom said:
			
		

> kin, are you serious about the playing video games part? haha?



Well some had said that those that do very well on the spatial ability test play a lot of video games.


----------



## Lazarus**

I received the ASVAB practice book last week in the mail and so far its doing its job  ;D
theres so much that I had forgotten from school lol (should've paid more attention in math definetly),
so I can say with confidence that this book will help me get the mark I need for my CFAT. 
Now I just gotta keep workin on the physical fitness end of things.


----------



## SweetNavyJustice

For those looking at doing the CFAT who have lost their way with math, I would recommend looking at www.math.com

It's a simple site that offers easy step-by-step instructions to get you back up on your basics.  

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Lazarus**

I have my high school diploma so it shouldnt be too hard to prepare for this crucial test right?
Wrong...
I've struggled with math ever since I can remember, my parents (God bless them) tried to help me by hiring tutors way back when I was a wee elementary student in grade 5. that didnt work, I am so bad at it that the tutors themselves would give up. Even after trying many different teaching methods. I have also been using the website math.com but to no avail.
Hell, my highest mark in this subject was a 58% and thats with good attendance. So what's my problem?
Why cant I retain the information? Why do I find it so difficult to understand the concepts?


----------



## benny88

Lazarus** said:
			
		

> So what's my problem?
> Why cant I retain the information?
> Why do I find it so difficult to understand the concepts?



       Questions not many army.ca usuers are trained to answer...

   However, no need to stress, the math on the CFAT is really very basic, and especially if you're pretty recently out of high school, you shouldn't worry too much. Better than a 30-something trying to recall his high-school math. Good luck!


----------



## omgLiam

Yeah, as said, you're not required to do calculus on this test or anything, just bone up on your basic mathematics.


----------



## KenJacobson

I'd be one of those 30+ (39 to be exact) individuals that needed to bone up on my highschool math.
I found a great book by Learning Express called 1001 Math Problems. Helped me qualify AEC


----------



## Red-Water.06

I'm not sure if the CFAT changes depending on age/education level. When I took my CFAT, just when I finishe dmy grade 10, the questions on Aptitute test were just suitable for grade 10 education. 

I read some posts before regarding to CFAT is based on grade 10 education, if that is true. I think you should just find your notes from highschool (wherever they may be) study some math, english and you'll be ready for the test.

 If that is unavaliable, I would suggest you to visit a nearest highghschool and ask vice-princpal if you could burrow a gr.10 math text book then study through each unit. Could someone clearify that if CFAT is based on gr.10 education? I've been wondering.


----------



## omgLiam

The minimum requirement for joining the Forces is grade 10, so it would make sense for it to be based around this. Without going into any detail, it -seems- based on a grade 10 education, if not lower.

My best solution to prepare for it is to do some online IQ tests.


----------



## Red-Water.06

omgliam, lol I read that long ago too and i didn't find it too helful lol (I felt like some of the questions are from kindergardens). I think math and vocab you can study, the IQ? 

(what is a circle in third dimention? [this is in example test on the official webpage] A sphere? very good.)- I find that quite funny if some person would go for pyramid or square. 

I think IQ is based on your actual intelligence, so I think if someone has some kind of disability, the person should have 100% from that kind of question.


----------



## omgLiam

IQ tests touch on spatial awareness, vocab, and have rigid time limits. That's why they're useful for prep/practice.


----------



## PMedMoe

Greenrubberduckie said:
			
		

> omgliam, lol I read that long ago too and i didn't find it too helful lol (*I felt like some of the questions are from kindergardens*). I think math and vocab you can study, the IQ?
> 
> (what is a circle in third dimention? [this is in example test on the official webpage] A sphere? very good.)- I find that quite funny if some person would go for pyramid or square.
> 
> I think IQ is based on your actual intelligence, so I think if someone has some kind of disability, the person should have 100% from that kind of question.



Maybe you should go back to elementary school to learn spelling and proper sentence structure.   :


----------



## Pistos

Hey all,

Just thought I'd chime in my two bits regarding the math portion.

Earlier this month I wrote the CFAT as a thirty-something out of high school for more years than I care to count.  I had about 6 weeks to prepare and found that I had lost just about all of my math skills.  

I too will attest to value of www.math.com  Go through the following sections and don't skimp on the practice questions and quizzes:
Basic Math, Everyday Math, Pre-Algebra, Geometry

If you are like me and at one point had a level of proficiency in math but have forgotten it over the years due to lack of use and calculators and computers then this will bring you back up to speed.  If you have never been able to use math to solve problems then you may need more than just this refresher but if you were ever proficient at grade 9-10 math then this should be sufficient.

I also found sample IQ tests to be helpful including the 3 large ones at http://www.military.com/ASVAB

Practice....practice....practice  - time is of the essence during these tests (it cheated me out of 5 questions on one section!) so the faster you can manually solve an equation the better off you are.

Incidentally, the six weeks I had were more than adequate to prepare me (mathematically) to score well enough to qualify for any NCM position.
I don't think I've given anything away that isn't common knowledge but perhaps by restating it this way there might be someone who 'gets it' that was previously struggling.

Prepare as much as you can then, get a good night's sleep, have a light breakfast, and enjoy the experience!


----------



## kincanucks

26 pages here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

Too lazy to read?

Hints:

1.  Study math involving fractions and long division.
2.  Read the word power in Reader's Digest.
3.  Play computer games.
4.  Get a good night's sleep and eat a healthy breakfast.
5.  On your way to the recruiting office on test day buy a homeless person a cup of coffee. 
6.  Pray to some higher being.

Good Luck.

I propose that the next time someone starts a CFAT thread they automatically get banned.


----------



## matthew_bourque

This may be a stupid ass question (And I apologize in advance) I searched and found nothing...


What are the passing scores for the CFAT?


----------



## omgLiam

As far as I know, you never actually see your scores. Certain trades require certain scores on the CFAT in the various areas, so it's a bit of a misnomer to say "passing grade."

Depends on what you're going into the Forces for is the short answer.


----------



## dwalter

Correct, knowing your "score" is not useful unto its own. Each specific trade in the forces has a requirement, and you must attain that score in order to be considered for that trade. They do not tell you what you got numerically, but they do tell you if you did well enough to qualify for certain trades. I am terrible at math, and yet managed to do quite well on the whole thing, and it got me my requirement for one of the 'tough' careers (Aerospace Control Officer) even though I ended up having to choose a new trade due to other reasons. My advice, brush up on those fractions, and make sure you can do all kinds of things with them (Add, subtract, multiply, and divide.)


----------



## Scott 1988

I was wondering about the exact scores on the aptitude test to pass. Since it's trade based I know some will be higher then others. But is there a limit to passing like 50%? Or is it possible to score like 30% on your problem solving for certain trades where as some would need say 90%. I'm just curious how this works. I believe the problem solving is out of 30 so how many questions would I need to get correct for all trades to be open?


----------



## benny88

Use the search feature --"CFAT" will turn up tons of results. Quick answer- Different trades have different required scores, but you will not know what those scores are or what your score is.

Cheers,
Benny


----------



## lone bugler

having done the CFAT myself with about 60-70 trade choices (not sure if it's all of them), this is exactly what happens. there is no such thing as a fail, but if you don't do as well your trade choices will be limited, for trades like infantry or general military trades, you dont have to do as well as a trade like weapons tech. So unless your going into a highly technical trade don't sweat it that much. They will circle you first choice on you list of "applicable MOCs". If you do not get your first choice, if not they'll circle your second choice, and then your third if you dont get your second. Also keep in mind that you may take the CFAT more than once, so if you really want your first choice and odn't get it , it is possible to request another test (although i dont think this can be done on the same day and if you live far away from the recruiting center this could be a issue).

good luck!

disclaimer: I'm not disrespecting the infantry trade and knows it's a very rewarding and challenging career regardless of qualifications needed on the CFAT


----------



## aesop081

lots of stories on this site about people who did not qualify for infantry and were offered other trades so do be so quick to assume that you know how the CFAT works and dont be so quick to assume that infantry is at the bottom of the score requirement.


----------



## lone bugler

Im saying this based on a person who did the CFAT with me. He was offered only 6 or 7 trade and I think it was steward, infantry and a few others. i never claimed i knew everything about the CFAT either


----------



## BlueJingo

The CFAT is based on Grad 10 education.

The %iles are not normally given out because they can be misleading.

the "cut off" scores vary with different occupational groups, and those cut off scores can vary yearly, or every so often.

My advice to you is don't think too much about what score you need to get, just try to answer all of them as you are not penalized for wrong answers. 
Also, only attempt the aptitude test if you feel you are ready to pass as there is a limit with how many times you can write the test, as you might need to get an academic upgrade to rewrite.

If you have any other questions contact your local recruiting centre and ask to speak to the testing clerk. 1-800-856-8488


----------



## Kruggle

Hey everyone,

I can't seem to find an answer for something that has probably been asked before, so please bear with me. 

I have my CFAT booked for tomorrow and I was just wondering if I should dress up for it? 

Thanks


----------



## Pte.Butt

Kruggle said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> 
> I can't seem to find an answer for something that has probably been asked before, so please bear with me.
> 
> I have my CFAT booked for tomorrow and I was just wondering if I should dress up for it?
> 
> Thanks



Dress civilized, so... leave the G-Unit, or Ozzy Osbourne shirt at home    Dress half formal first impressions are the ones people remember the most. That may mean having the advantage over the next person, you may get the job offer, and the other person will be working at McDicks or Tim's this summer instead of the Army..
Goodluck, Cheers.


----------



## offthechart45

JUST PASSED IT TODAY. it's fairly easy and im in applied classes. THE BEST ADVICE and they will tell you this is TAKE YOUR TIME on each question and READ IT CAREFULLY!!!! and you should do fine


----------



## Nauticus

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Having a degree has little to do with the CFAT.  It is an APTITUDE test, not a knowledge test.  Do you have the aptitude to do a certain job, not whether or not you have a piece of paper to hang on your wall.


I'm not sure that downplaying someone's _degree_ is the right thing to do. It's not a "piece of paper to hang on your wall", it's a huge accomplishment to obtain.


----------



## benny88

Nauticus said:
			
		

> I'm not sure that downplaying someone's _degree_ is the right thing to do. It's not a "piece of paper to hang on your wall", it's a huge accomplishment to obtain.



It's a huge accomplishment that has nothing to do with many trades in the CF. Read his post, it doesn't say anything "downplaying a degree" it says:



> Having a degree has little to do with the CFAT.


----------



## Nauticus

I understand that, but the OP is specifically referring to an officer trade. To my knowledge, a degree is a requirement to become an officer, so I disagree that it's got nothing to do with CF trades that the OP was specifically referring to.


----------



## aesop081

Nauticus said:
			
		

> I understand that, but the OP is specifically referring to an officer trade. To my knowledge, a degree is a requirement to become an officer, so I disagree that it's got nothing to do with CF trades that the OP was specifically referring to.



Still has SFA to do with the CFAT


----------



## Nauticus

Fair enough.


----------



## grmpz1

i did my CFAT last week and i found that the math questions werent that hard ...pretty basic just gotta think it through  that being said i did pretty good on mine


----------



## Nauticus

Good job.

I couriered my CF application on Wednesday last week. Haven't heard anything yet, but I have my hopes up.


----------



## Michael Baron

The only tip I can say for the spatial part is you can always narrow it down to two choices.  Then you have a 50% shot at getting it right.  I  used that method and scored high enough to qualify for any job I wanted (Although they wouldn't tell me the final score, I know I got all the vocab and math questions right, and knew I narrowed each spatial to a 50% probability).  The math was fairly simple if you reread the question over and make sure you answer exactly what they are asking, as some times you may interpret it differently.


----------



## offthechart45

I just passed the cfat and im in grade 12 college classes. The best advice I can give you and you probley read 100's of times is to do some practice aptitute tests on the internet and read every question carefully and DON'T spend too much time on one question.


----------



## Baqi

I just wrote my CFAT! I must say it wasn't too too bad! I under-estimated the vocabulary part, for most of the questions I was like huh?? 

The rest of the questions (math, spatial reasoning, logic) are doable, but you are pressed for time. I found the only part were I ran out of time was during the 30min., 30 math questions. The rest I had at least 1-2min to look over!

I have my medical along with my interview tomorrow, we'll see what happens. And, I applied for 15 field ambulance here at Edmonton.


----------



## Dolphado

Hmm, and see I had plenty of time during all sections. I did the math with almost 10 mins to spare. I was shocked that I did so well (I had expected to do horrible in that area) I guess it all depends on the person writing and the comfort level.


----------



## UnrulyCanuck

The first time I wrote my CFAT test I didn't score as high as I wanted for the ATIS trade. I decided to put my application on hold and try again. I put it off for a bit, so the recruiting center called me, four times. I was told that's a good sign. It means they want you to try and pass again. Anyway I've decided to write again next week, after 5 years!!


----------



## Baqi

^^^ Don't worry!! Just remember not to spend too much time on one question.  

Don't want to hi-jack the topic but I am done my medical and my interview, and both went very smoothly and now the physical strength test!!! Friday May 24, 2008.


----------



## VM

Baqi, you clearly did want to hi-jack the thread.


----------



## Baqi

VM, You caught me!! What can I say, I just couldn't control my relief and excitedness!  ;D

Anyways, one thing I noticed about the CFAT, is that it has a lot of pattern recognition/ sequence identification type questions! (Hope that helps)


----------



## sgthavik

hi, i am wanting to reapply for the infantry. I have already done the CFAT once and failed....how many more shots do i have at it?? and are there any good books or other learning material to help me study for it?


thanks,

sgthavik


----------



## stryte

Below is a link to an entry on this forum by George Wallace containing an extensive listing of CFAT aids.

Good luck!

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/70711.0.html


----------



## JJJ

You can get a ASVAB book form amazon or search google for online material. A GED book will work also.


----------



## Fische35

Just wondering, I've looked all over and havent seen anyone ask...How much time are you given to write the test?


----------



## aesop081

Fische35 said:
			
		

> How much time are you given to write the test?



Enough time.


----------



## Mario

sgthavik said:
			
		

> hi, i am wanting to reapply for the infantry. I have already done the CFAT once and failed....how many more shots do i have at it?? and are there any good books or other learning material to help me study for it?
> 
> 
> thanks,
> 
> sgthavik



Having recently completed my CFAT (and passed), the best advice I can give you without breaking any rules is to read alot of books (anything with big words and no pictures), do some origami, and solve a few equations.


----------



## east123

Hi, I did a search but I didnt find anything so I am making this thread. What I am wondering is, Is there a link that shows what types of CFAT marks are required for trades?. I did my CFAT a few days ago and failed on the math portion only and the guy who told me said it was Below CF Standard so I dont qualify for anything (although originally I was told you cant fail the test).

I am wondering because my choices go as follow
1) Infantry
2) Naval Electric communicator operator
3) Field Artillery

but im wondering maybe if I do pass the test the second time I might get something other than that. So is there any link that I can check on?


----------



## SupersonicMax

Well, there is no way you'll know your mark anyways, I fail to see how pertinent that information would be of any use to you if it was available.

Edit:  Just do your best and work on areas to improve (hint:  Math)

Max


----------



## Occam

No, there's nothing that links CFAT marks vs. trades - at least not publicly available, anyways.   If your math ability is that poor, then I suggest you focus on upgrading those skills.  Virtually every trade in the CF has a requirement for high school math at the general level.

By the way:


> 2) Naval Electric communicator operator



There is no such beast.


----------



## east123

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Well, there is no way for you'll know your mark anyways, I fail to see how pertinent that information would be of any use to you if it was available.



We'll Im currently in debate if I should re-write the test and in the event I did if I still score to low for infantry, but at the minimum standard that I qualify for something else. I just like to know my options.



			
				Occam said:
			
		

> No, there's nothing that links CFAT marks vs. trades - at least not publicly available, anyways.   If your math ability is that poor, then I suggest you focus on upgrading those skills.  Virtually every trade in the CF has a requirement for high school math at the general level.
> 
> By the way:
> There is no such beast.



You're right, my mistake its "Naval Electronic Sensor Operator"


----------



## kincanucks

_(although originally I was told you cant fail the test)._

You can't fail the test but you can fail to meet the standard for your chosen trade(s).  The only trades lower in the CFAT than Infantry are Steward and Cook, think about it.


----------



## east123

kincanucks said:
			
		

> _(although originally I was told you cant fail the test)._
> 
> You can't fail the test but you can fail to meet the standard for your chosen trade(s).  The only trades lower in the CFAT than Infantry are Steward and Cook, think about it.



so cook is lower than infantry regarding the CFAT yet to even apply for cook one needs a high school diploma   and "You can't fail the test but you can fail to meet the standard for your chosen trade", then why have the test?

but hey I take what you're saying as truth and now I know hehe.


----------



## Kr3w

A Recruiter told me that you need a min of 18/60 which is alot less then 50% to qualify for Infantry.


----------



## Kr3w

You shouldn't really worry about it at all. Its alot of pressure but unless you cant do basic math or anythin, then you might want to start brushin up on it. I applied of Infantry and lost alot of sleep over it. I did it and pretty much qualified for everthin and my math skills are not the best, and I havent even completed school. SO just chill and do some grade 10 math problems. Next time when you go in to do it, just make sure you feel confident and that you know that you did everything you can do to prevail.


----------



## George Wallace

east123 said:
			
		

> so cook is lower than infantry regarding the CFAT yet to even apply for cook one needs a high school diploma   and "You can't fail the test but you can fail to meet the standard for your chosen trade", then why have the test?



 :

I can see why you didn't make the standards for many of the Trades.  It is as obvious as the nose on your face, after reading your comment.


----------



## east123

George Wallace said:
			
		

> :
> 
> I can see why you didn't make the standards for many of the Trades.  It is as obvious as the nose on your face, after reading your comment.



can you enlighten me to your findings plz?


----------



## George Wallace

east123 said:
			
		

> can you enlighten me to your findings plz?



Sorry.  Your comments indicate that you don't understand, and that you should take the time to do some further studying in order to improve your CFAT score, should you decide to do so at some time in the future with a retest.


----------



## aesop081

east123 said:
			
		

> can you enlighten me to your findings plz?



Its an aptitude test. You failed to demonstrate and aptitude for any trade in the CF.

That the CF require a HS diploma is irrelevant.


----------



## Snafu-Bar

The CFAT is designed to eliminate those who seek a certain trade within the CF if they aren't properly educated for it. Thus the CFAT sorts those seeking trades above thier capacity into something more suitable depending on thier scores. The rest is upto you.

Cheers.


----------



## aesop081

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> CF if they aren't properly educated for it.



Aptitude and education are 2 seperate issues.


----------



## Snafu-Bar

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Aptitude and education are 2 seperate issues.



 Aptitude is a indicator of ones general grip on things. Higher educated people tend to be higher scored in the CFAT. Relatively young highschool dropouts with little or no work experience on average aren't going to outscore too many unless they are an idiot savant.  Education reflects your aptitiude or your exsposure to the problems handed to you in the CFAT or pretty much most other aptitude tests out there. Both go hand in hand through life.

 Cheers.


----------



## George Wallace

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> Aptitude is a indicator of ones general grip on things. Higher educated people tend to be higher scored in the CFAT. Relatively young highschool dropouts with little or no work experience on average aren't going to outscore too many unless they are an idiot savant.  Education reflects your aptitiude or your exsposure to the problems handed to you in the CFAT or pretty much most other aptitude tests out there. Both go hand in hand through life.



Actually, I disagree with you.  I have seen people with a lot of aptitude, and less education; at the same time people with a lot of education and absolutely no aptitude.  I agree with CDN Aviator, that they are two separate things, but can be indicators towards each other.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Actually, I disagree with you.  I have seen people with a lot of aptitude, and less education; at the same time people with a lot of education and absolutely no aptitude.  I agree with CDN Aviator, that they are two separate things, but can be indicators towards each other.



Agreed George. Now I have no idea if its still the same testing theory but way back in 1978 a 17 year old dropout got told that he scored high enough for any trade he wanted............

.".we just this little problem about a criminal record and the 6 months after finishing probation.......but, hmmm,...hey wait, how would you like the Artillery?"


----------



## Kr3w

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Agreed George. Now I have no idea if its still the same testing theory but way back in 1978 a 17 year old dropout got told that he scored high enough for any trade he wanted............



Sounds like moi, but im still going to get my GED....


----------



## Snafu-Bar

Allow me to seperate the education and replace it with general Intelligence. I agree that the term education is misleading and not the right word to use.

Cheers.


----------



## George Wallace

Again, two completely different things.  The CFAT is an aptitude test, not an intelligence test.  Nor is it an IQ test.


----------



## Celticgirl

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The CFAT is an aptitude test, not an intelligence test.  Nor is it an IQ test.



With that said, there _is_ now a fourth section on the CFAT called General Cognitive Ability that does appear to be very much like a standard IQ test (akin to any online version you will find, anyway). I recall being told this was "experimental" at the time of my testing and nothing more was ever said about it nor about the results. I wonder if test takers will ever find out their scores from this section and/or what they are being used for, if anything.


----------



## Kr3w

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> With that said, there _is_ now a fourth section on the CFAT called General Cognitive Ability that does appear to be very much like a standard IQ test (akin to any online version you will find, anyway). I recall being told this was "experimental" at the time of my testing and nothing more was ever said about it nor about the results. I wonder if test takers will ever find out their scores from this section and/or what they are being used for, if anything.



I did do the fourth section but, when I asked my recruiter my score *he DID tell me that I got a 45/60.*That was back in June in Halifax. But I dont really know, maybe if a recruiter is reading this maybe they could shead some light on it...


----------



## Celticgirl

Kr3w said:
			
		

> I did do the fourth section but, when I asked my recruiter my score *he DID tell me that I got a 45/60.*That was back in June in Halifax. But I dont really know, maybe if a recruiter is reading this maybe they could shead some light on it...



I don't think that includes the fourth section. Someone can correct me if I have the values mixed up here, but I believe the breakdown is like this: Verbal = 15 pts, Spatial = 15 pts, Problem-solving (math) = 30 pts. 

I was told (in February) that the GCA section was not included in the mark /60.


----------



## aesop081

Its all pretty irrelevant in the end.


----------



## east123

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Its all pretty irrelevant in the end.



Yes, which is why I made this thread and started to wonder. However I see this thread has become very active and would like to thank everyone who replied.


----------



## BC Old Guy

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> what they are being used for, if anything.


Last I heard, this part of the CFAT was experimental.  The test will be used for a time, the Personnel Selection researchers will then study the results, and see if this test is a useful predictor for military employment.  If it is useful, it could be used to replace the current test, or to supplement the test.  My experience is that this normally takes a year or more to gather the information, and come up with a decision.


----------



## Celticgirl

BC Old Guy said:
			
		

> Last I heard, this part of the CFAT was experimental.  The test will be used for a time, the Personnel Selection researchers will then study the results, and see if this test is a useful predictor for military employment.  If it is useful, it could be used to replace the current test, or to supplement the test.  My experience is that this normally takes a year or more to gather the information, and come up with a decision.



That's the best explanation I've heard thus far. Thanks, BC Old Guy.


----------



## dwalter

Kr3w said:
			
		

> I did do the fourth section but, when I asked my recruiter my score *he DID tell me that I got a 45/60.*That was back in June in Halifax. But I dont really know, maybe if a recruiter is reading this maybe they could shead some light on it...



It's always surprising when people get a recruiter to give them their 'score'. An aptitude test score is not like a test you take in school where you get a certain mark on each section and then total them up and get a final 'grade' that says "Yes you are qualified." This is why at most recruiting centers they tell you right at the start that you will not get your score, only a yes or no as to if you qualified for the trade you wanted. 

If 45/60 meant you got say perfect on the problem solving section, and perfect on spatial reasoning, but got 0 on the verbal component, then you would not qualify for much, if anything. Each trade requires a different score in each category, which is why getting a raw number doesn't help you at all in knowing how well you did, unless you do so well that they can say "Congrats, you qualified for every trade in the CF" which basically means you did a good job, even without knowing your score.


----------



## Snafu-Bar

The group that was with me when i had my CFAT in Hamilton we're told we all passed and there were six of us, i was told i qualified for all three of the trades i had listed which included Artillery,SigOp and AmmoTech.

 We then got told that it's probably the first time they had an entire group pass the test at the same time.

 Not sure if anyone was told thier "scores" but i wasn't, other than the fact that i passed.

 Cheers


----------



## Celticgirl

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> The group that was with me when i had my CFAT in Hamilton we're told we all passed and there were six of us, i was told i qualified for all three of the trades i had listed which included Artillery,SigOp and AmmoTech.
> 
> We then got told that it's probably the first time they had an entire group pass the test at the same time.
> 
> Not sure if anyone was told thier "scores" but i wasn't, other than the fact that i passed.
> 
> Cheers



I assume "passing" in this case means "qualifying for your trades". So everyone in your group qualified for their trades. How many people were writing with you, Snafu? I was given my results individually and have no clue if the other two (yes, just two) test takers 'passed'. The officer who de-briefed me did tell me my score and my MCC gave me my 'percentile' during my interview. I'm not sure why some people are told and others are not. I guess it is up to the discretion of the officers at the RCs.


----------



## Snafu-Bar

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I assume "passing" in this case means "qualifying for your trades". So everyone in your group qualified for their trades. How many people were writing with you, Snafu? I was given my results individually and have no clue if the other two (yes, just two) test takers 'passed'. The officer who de-briefed me did tell me my score and my MCC gave me my 'percentile' during my interview. I'm not sure why some people are told and others are not. I guess it is up to the discretion of the officers at the RCs.



 There we're six of us taking our test together, all "qualified" for thier chosen paths, but the fact I made it through was good enough for me. The score wasn't important so much as being told i am qualified for all my choices.

 Cheers


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Here's my input into this thread:

- every single person who has failed the 'basic training' course or initial trades training, whatever it may be for whatever trade, including both Officer and NCM occupations, *passed the CFAT*.  This happens year..after year...after year.

I wrote it in 1988 and again in 2006, and the fact that my scores from 2006 were high enough for the trade I applied for remuster into means only 2 things;  (1) My applicaiton didn't have an immediate stop-drop and (2)  I now have the ability to prove the CFAT scores are meaningless if I fail off my next trades' QL5 course and join others that have failed before me.

The CFAT, IMO, is an initial check.  Nothing more.  Don't go buy yourself a hero cookie yet troops...


----------



## Snafu-Bar

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Here's my input into this thread:
> 
> - every single person who has failed the 'basic training' course or initial trades training, whatever it may be for whatever trade, including both Officer and NCM occupations, *passed the CFAT*.  This happens year..after year...after year.
> 
> I wrote it in 1988 and again in 2006, and the fact that my scores from 2006 were high enough for the trade I applied for remuster into means only 2 things;  (1) My applicaiton didn't have an immediate stop-drop and (2)  I now have the ability to prove the CFAT scores are meaningless if I fail off my next trades' QL5 course and join others that have failed before me.
> 
> The CFAT, IMO, in as initial check.  Nothing more.  Don't go buy yourself a hero cookie yet troops...



 I wasn't beating my chest in Tarzanian fashion by any means. I understand what it's there for and why. I also understand that it's just one of the steps along the path to actually making it to my trade.

 Cheers


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> I wasn't beating my chest in Tarzanian fashion by any means. I understand what it's there for and why. I also understand that it's just one of the steps along the path to actually making it to my trade.
> 
> Cheers



And I wasn't directing my post at you specifically, but rather the thread in general... 8)  



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Here's my input into this thread:


----------



## Celticgirl

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Here's my input into this thread:
> 
> - every single person who has failed the 'basic training' course or initial trades training, whatever it may be for whatever trade, including both Officer and NCM occupations, *passed the CFAT*.  This happens year..after year...after year.



A hex! He put a hex on us!  >

Seriously, I think we all know that "passing" the CFAT is no guarantee that we will pass anything else. We need to continue proving ourselves and doing our very best at every stage of the process. I'm a little 'concerned' about certain aspects of basic training, but I'll cross those proverbial bridges when I come to them. 

FYI: If I had not qualified for the trades I wanted, I would have written the test again. I don't give up that easily.


----------



## aesop081

this thread has over-extended its welcome in cyberspace.........

CFAT scores mean jackshit.........if you need to know what your score was so you can sleep at night then you have problems. You either qualify for your trades or you didnt.


----------



## George Wallace

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> There we're six



After that, I wonder about this:




			
				Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> ........... but the fact I made it through was good enough for me. The score wasn't important so much as being told i am qualified for all my choices.



Yes this topic has outlived its usefulness.


----------



## jcph90

i was wondering if some one can tell me if you are supposed to get the results of your aptitude test right away or wait 2 weeks for them 2 contact you, i have seen on other posts that people were told right away of their score. unlike me i have 2 wait 2 weeks so im guessing i failed, but i would like to be told straight up. no lies...

thanks for any help


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Don't get your panties in a bunch. CFRCs are a very busy place. In all likelyhood, it's just going to take them that long to get to it. If they'd have known you failed, they would have told you. Be patient. You likely have a long career of 'hurry up and wait' ahead of you.

There's also tons of stuff available here on the subject. A 'search' would have brought it up.


----------



## jcph90

i want to be but i noticed that the recruiting officer talked longer( 15 min ) with every one elses other than me( 2 min ) that did the test, and i over heard  one of the other applicants talking to his father about his results


----------



## Fishbone Jones

You can either call and try confirm or wait like you were told. We can't guess what they are doing or whether you passed.

Once more, if you 'search' you may turn up something else that will assuage your fears.

Reading the Guidelines about grammar, spelling and capitalization wouldn't hurt (actually required) either.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## BC Old Guy

jcph90 said:
			
		

> i want to be but i noticed that the recruiting officer talked longer( 15 min ) with every one elses other than me( 2 min ) that did the test, and i over heard  one of the other applicants talking to his father about his results



Actually - it takes longer to tell someone they failed the test than it does to tell the person they qualified for their occupation choices.  Check with the CFRC to find out what happens next, and when.


----------



## kincanucks

BC Old Guy said:
			
		

> Actually - it takes longer to tell someone they failed the test than it does to tell the person they qualified for their occupation choices.  Check with the CFRC to find out what happens next, and when.



What CFRC/D doesn't tell the applicant right away whether they have met the CFAT standards or they haven't?  There is something fishy here.


----------



## BC Old Guy

kincanucks said:
			
		

> What CFRC/D doesn't tell the applicant right away whether they have met the CFAT standards or they haven't?  There is something fishy here.



As far as I know, the standard is to tell applicants their results at the conclusion of the test.  However, how this is done does vary from one CFRC/D to another.  

Yes, something fishy may be here, however, my experience has been that there has been a communications lapse between the CFRC/D staff and the applicant - either the applicant didn't hear what the staff said, or missed what was said, or the staff provided a general comment that was not understood.  Unless I know where, and by whom the CFAT debrief was conducted, I can't tell what happened.


----------



## jcph90

I took the test at the Oshawa, ON recruitment center, I applied for weapons tech land ,and infantry. I pay very close attention when people talk to me and all he did was give me my $5.70 for doing the test and said they need to wait 2 weeks to hear from Ottawa and then i should get  a call. i was the last 2 be called up and each person had at least 12 min, some went up twice (also they seemed happy).
thanks again guys..


----------



## Celticgirl

jcph90 said:
			
		

> i was wondering if some one can tell me if you are supposed to get the results of your aptitude test right away or wait 2 weeks for them 2 contact you, i have seen on other posts that people were told right away of their score. unlike me i have 2 wait 2 weeks so im guessing i failed, but i would like to be told straight up. no lies...
> 
> thanks for any help



Looking at the other comments and then re-reading your OP, I am not sure that the answers match the original query. 

Did they tell you whether or not you qualified for your trades (all or any)? If so, then you did get your results. If you qualify, you "passed", and if you didn't, you "failed". Apparently, it is not common to get your actual score, so don't wait by the phone for that. Some are told, many are not...there does not appear to be a rhyme or reason to it.

Since it's a computer-based test, the results are instantaneous. They should have given you the thumbs up or thumbs down for your trade(s) within minutes of completing the test (depending on how many were waiting, could be more than a few minutes but not days later...). 

If you are still confused about your results, just call them and ask.


----------



## jcph90

they did not mention if i qualified for anything, i was sure before i did the test he said that we would go over our results after the test( i even asked him if he said that but he said he didn't.


----------



## Celticgirl

jcph90 said:
			
		

> they did not mention if i qualified for anything, i was sure before i did the test he said that we would go over our results after the test( i even asked him if he said that but he said he didn't.



This doesn't sound right to me. Call them and ask for your results. Even better: if you are near to the RC, drop in and ask to speak to someone about your CFAT results.


----------



## jcph90

i will give it a couple days, thank you


----------



## kincanucks

BC Old Guy said:
			
		

> As far as I know, the standard is to tell applicants their results at the conclusion of the test.  However, how this is done does vary from one CFRC/D to another.
> 
> Yes, something fishy may be here, however, my experience has been that there has been a communications lapse between the CFRC/D staff and the applicant - either the applicant didn't hear what the staff said, or missed what was said, or the staff provided a general comment that was not understood.  Unless I know where, and by whom the CFAT debrief was conducted, I can't tell what happened.



Fair enough but in 6 years of recruiting I didn't have one applicant that went through my Det that didn't know how they did on the CFAT before they left the office.  I had them leave not understand the counseling out for NPD, funny how that happens, but never their CFAT results.  I don't know what happened with this person. Maybe it was one of those X-files phenomenon? jcph90 is your hearing okay?


----------



## BC Old Guy

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Fair enough but in 6 years of recruiting I didn't have one applicant that went through my Det that didn't know how they did on the CFAT before they left the office.  I had them leave not understand the counseling out for NPD, funny how that happens, but never their CFAT results.  I don't know what happened with this person. Maybe it was one of those X-files phenomenon? jcph90 is your hearing okay?



The more that jcph90 writes, the less I understand.  I'm looking forward to seeing what he has to say after he contacts the Det.


----------



## jcph90

guys, im just as confused as you are, and yes me hearing is more than ok. if any of u can do anything ill give u my service number,and i will let u know how this turns out


----------



## jcph90

i will find it really depressing if I'm not smart enough for infantry. even though i know i could be a weapons tech.( by the way I'm a locksmith and a quick learner and i know just about all i can about firearms with out actually ever firing one.)


----------



## aesop081

jcph90 said:
			
		

> i will find it really depressing if I'm smart enough for infantry. even though i know i could be a weapons.( by the way I'm a locksmith and a quick learner and i know just about all i can about firearms with out actually ever firing one.)



Can you try that post again but in english ?


----------



## Celticgirl

jcph90 said:
			
		

> i will find it really depressing if I'm smart enough for infantry. even though i know i could be a weapons.( by the way I'm a locksmith and a quick learner and i know just about all i can about firearms with out actually ever firing one.)



It's not about being "smart enough", it's about what you have an aptitude for (or not). The "A" stands for Aptitude. If you don't qualify, you can always re-write. Sometimes, test takers have an off day, so you have to account for that as well. 



			
				jcph90 said:
			
		

> guys, im just as confused as you are, and yes me hearing is more than ok. if any of u can do anything ill give u my service number,and i will let u know how this turns out



Jcph90, the person who can do something for you is yourself. Why wait a couple of days to call them? Rest assured, you're not bothering them. Processing applications like yours is what they do at Recruiting Centers. Simply call or show up and ask whether or not you qualified for your trades. They will have your file on the computer with the results of your CFAT right there in front of them, so it's not that much to ask.


----------



## jcph90

ok, guys it's me again he forgot to tell me that i qualified for my trades(thank god ;D). i called this morning and now i have to wait for my criminal record check. thank you every one for you support on the matter. specially BC Old Guy, Celticgirl and  kincanuck.


----------



## Celticgirl

jcph90 said:
			
		

> ok, guys it's me again he forgot to tell me that i qualified for my trades(thank god ;D). i called this morning and now i have to wait for my criminal record check. thank you every one for you support on the matter. specially BC Old Guy, Celticgirl and  kincanuck.



That beats sitting around wondering, doesn't it?   Congrats to you on qualifying for your trades!


----------



## scouthern

I'm applying for the position of MP (PRes). I was wondering if this trade was one that required a generally high score, like something that required at least 80%+ in all categories of the test? I'm currently in my senior year, I'm focusing on problem solving mostly because spatial is not really something you can study for and as for the verbal part, the only way I could ace that category was if I went through the entire English dictionary a few times.

And the General competency exam on the jobs.ca website was brutal, i scored 30 out of 45 some of the number sequences were incredibly confusing. But that exam permitted a calculator so I assume the CFAT is easier since only paper and pen are permitted (if anyone knows which exam im talking about).

Thanks,


----------



## Niteshade

Practice the CFAT on this:

http://www.cfsuo.forces.gc.ca/adm/pdp-pps/doc/cfat-tafc-eng.pdf

A paper one can be picked up at the CFRC if need be.

Show up well rested, and avoid coffee/caffeine the day of. Try and keep your brain straight and ready to work hard for a good long period of time.

Don't worry about your score. Just work hard, and get the best one possible.

Good luck,

Nites


----------



## Niteshade

You're over thinking it.

Relax and do the test.

Nites


----------



## JABAC

Oh dear me.  Do yourself a favour and stop over-thinking everything.  You have no idea how many people get fired for this-or-that reason.  It is really not a big deal.  Whatever you do though, be completely honest in the interview and take any responsibility you might have had for the "incident".  Don't make excuses or try to deny any screw-up on your part because they will see right through that. The interviewer is not looking for someone who is perfect, because then they'd never find anyone.  They want someone who can take responsibility for their actions, learn from their mistakes, and improve on their shortcomings.  If they even bother to ask about specifics about the termination, which they may or may not, tell them exactly how you screwed up, what you learned from it, and how you will work on not making similar mistakes in the future.  Don't place the blame elsewhere or try to downplay it.  That's lame.

Anyways, good luck on the test/interview, keep a clear head (don't overthink) and just do your best!


----------



## armchair_throwaway

Most of the math questions are problem solving. There's no specified equation to solve as you need to interpret it yourself.

Example: Alice has 10 apples, Bob has apples as well. Bob then gave 5 apples to Carl. Together Alice and Bob now have 30 apples. How many apples did Bob have originally?

As you can imagine, not all questions are simple addition/subtraction and not all values given will be in whole numbers. This is why you should review fractions, decimals, etc. Almost all the questions are from hypothetical situations, so focus on "real life" application problems. Ask your math teacher to point you to some textbook questions if you still don't know how to prepare for it.

eta: hopefully this doesn't count as revealing too much


----------



## Niteshade

I provided a link to the example CFAT the DND provides for practice.  USE IT. Practice THOSE SKILLS.

There is a preparatory questionnaire the DND provides for the interview. USE IT. Mine was handed to me at the CFRC, but prior to the interview. Some surfing of their website would likely produce a PDF.

Again. Stop over thinking everything. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. Most of these questions have already been asked.

Nites


----------



## Pelorus

It probably wouldn't have hurt to ask whether you passed the cutoff for your trade.  After I completed my CFAT, I simply asked the recruiter how I did, and she showed me my score for each section.  

Keep in mind that if you have yet to complete everything else (ie. medical/interview/pt test), then you wouldn't be offered whatever choice you wanted, you would have simply been informed whether or not you passed the CFAT cutoff for the trade you were hoping for.


----------



## aesop081

scouthern said:
			
		

> , will I have to continuously keep finding references after every stage?



To put it simply, just do what they tell you to do at every stage. If thats not clear let me know, i will put it differently for you.


----------



## aesop081

scouthern said:
			
		

> The lack of clarification is throwing me off, since it was sort of  a calm and wait game before my CFAT and more of  a book your other tests and the get the hell out kind of mood at the end.



So what did you want ? A party in your honour ?

There are many more applicants to process after you so the quicker you get your bookings made, the quicker the staff can get to them, hence the "get the hell out" mood.


----------



## aesop081

scouthern said:
			
		

> No. I just wanted to know how it worked, if they only call you in if you don't get your first choice, or none of your choices. Right now I'm thinking my CFAT score qualified me for the Military Police trade.



When you have your interview, i'm sure they will tell you. If they don't you can always ask.

Why didnt you ask after you wrote the test in the first place ?


----------



## aesop081

scouthern said:
			
		

> But this usually means I qualified for my first trade correct? They wouldn't hold me in anticipation till the interview then drop the bomb on me.



We have recruiting types that post here and hopefully they will come Along and set you straight. What i will say though is a piece of advice you should remember : Do not make assumptions.


----------



## aesop081

scouthern said:
			
		

> Which requires a higher score of the three?



Were you told what your score was ?


----------



## aesop081

scouthern said:
			
		

> No,



So knowing what score was required for what trade would be of no use to you. Quit worrying about shit you cant control. Go for a run instead...or some pushups or something.


----------



## aesop081

:brickwall:

Heres another bit of advice : Stop spending your time worrying about what other people are doing. Start worrying about what *YOU* are doing.




			
				scouthern said:
			
		

> stuff like, not being happy with your work ethic or not following policy?



You should be fine. We love shitty work ethics and not following policy. You will fit right in.


----------



## aesop081

scouthern said:
			
		

> You've put me at ease.



Glad i could help  >


----------



## Pelorus

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You should be fine. We love shitty work ethics and not following policy. You will fit right in.



 ;D


----------



## east123

hi I took the CFAT and I failed Math badly. I want to take it again but I never got that sheet of paper with Practice Tests and I dont really need Vocabulary or Spatial because I did good on those. Other than the Kent Numeric Practice test what is a good link for Math? I know Math.com but thats all assorted math I am looking more for CFAT related stuff.


Also I lost the number they gave me for the recruiting center. If I call to setup a new day to write the test would my valid photo ID be good enough?


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

You are on the internet - look for the phone number! Try....DND.ca? 411.ca?

There is a 20 some page thread on the CFAT on this site. It is a gift to those who are preparing in my opinion.


----------



## east123

Moody said:
			
		

> You are on the internet - look for the phone number! Try....DND.ca? 411.ca?
> 
> There is a 20 some page on the CFAT on this site. It is a gift to those who are preparing in my opinion.



sorry I meant the serial number they give I dont remember mine


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

east123 said:
			
		

> sorry I meant the serial number they give I dont remember mine



You mean your service number? I am sure if you call or visit the recruiting centre, they will probably understand that you are an applicant and that you may not know your service number.


----------



## Drag

Find a grade 10 math textbook at your local public library...  Should be more than enough for the CFAT as I remember it.


----------



## Ammo

Try the internet web pages on attached document (they should still be valid). This is what we provide our students if they feel they want to upgrade their math skills.
Good luck


----------



## Ammo

Seems like can't open the attachment. So here are those links

LINKS TO MATHEMATICS

Introduction to Mathematics and Algebra. 	http://tpub.com/math1/index.htm

Basic Arithmetic Skills. Interactive Endless Examples and Exercises. Perfect your addition skills with these endless exercises.   Add columns of whole numbers and see how well you can handle carrying operations.	http://www.free-ed.net/fr07/lfc/arithmetic/Basic%20Exercises.asp

Fraction Skills and Drills. Interactive Endless Examples and Exercises. You've learned the basics from your class or a book, and now it is time to perfect your basic fraction skills.	http://www.free-ed.net/fr07/lfc/arithmetic/Fraction%20Drills.asp

Pre-Algebra. Brush up on your arithmetic, and get ready for algebra. Here is a complete course that deals with the elements of arithmetic that are required for starting your first studies in algebra and beyond.	http://www.free-ed.net/fr07/lfc/course070101_01/

Arithmetic & Pre-Algebra.  Includes:
Basic Studies in Pre-Algebra - This interactive program is suitable for students of GED prep and junior-high level homeschoolers.  It is also a great place for "mathematically challenged" adults to begin building confidence and competence.
Number and Operations - The course covers the real number system, place value, the behavior of zero and infinity, meanings and models of basic operations, percentages, and modeling operations with fractions, often with the aid of concrete, physical models that enhance understanding. It also examines Basic Number Theory topics, such as factors and multiples, as well as divisibility tests, at both practical and abstract levels.
Understanding Algebra* - This is James Brennan's popular online algebra text. It is tried and tested, and found to be consistent and reliable.
S.O.S Mathematics: Algebra* - This is an excellent, no-nonsense summary of the principles of algebra.
Video Lectures in Algebra - Here is a thorough treatment of advanced-placement (AP) and college-level algebra. You will find 26 half-hour video lessons produce by Annenberg/CPB. Requires a free, one-time registration.	http://www.free-ed.net/free-ed/Math/

PBS Teacher Source. Lesson plans and activities by selecting a grade range and topic	http://www.pbs.org/teachersource/math.htm

The Platonic Realms Interactive Mathematics Encyclopedia (PRIME) encyclopedia	http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/index.asp

Algebrahelp.com is a collection of tools created to assist students and teachers of algebra.	http://www.algebrahelp.com/index.jsp

General Conversion Factor - 	http://www.ceramics.com/cvmass.html

Conversion Calculator	http://www.worldwidemetric.com/metcal.htm

Calculators Index	http://members.aol.com/algbrahlp/calcs.htm

Welcome to Webmath! Are you stuck on a math problem? We'd like to help you solve it. Excellent web site from A to Z. (Hint – Start with clicking on tab titled “General Math”.)	http://www.webmath.com/

Lots of practices at http://www.math.com/homeworkhelp/BasicMath.html
http://www.math.com/


----------



## east123

I got a book I can use while I am in the washroom or not at home. Its called Learning Express Math to the Max. Thanks for the links I can use them for Online practice. I want to make it so I dont fail again because then I cant re-write it and there should be no reason why i should fail again.


----------



## koopa

Does anyone know of a method to teach number patterns (arithmetic, geometric, exponent)? I have someone begging me to tutor them and I can't find a good enough website to figure out how to teach it


----------



## lennoj

koopa said:
			
		

> Does anyone know of a method to teach number patterns (arithmetic, geometric, exponent)? I have someone begging me to tutor them and I can't find a good enough website to figure out how to teach it



Odd question...but here is my 2 cents...

Tell the person who is begging you to go to their local college and pay the $12/hr tutoring fee...They are there to help you obtain the results in which ever academic area you are inquiring about. 

If that is not an option, google these terms: 'BEDMAS', 'Finding - Area, Circumference, Diameter, and volume' and finally read up on fractions, fractions and fractions...

good luck,

Edit: Spelling of 'circumference'


----------



## koopa

I dont see why it's an odd question (considering it's on the CFAT) but thanks.


----------



## CheeseNip

Another item worth trying is a GED Book. Covers English and Math and a variety of other subjects that may or may not interest you.
If you don't know what a GED is, it's a *G*eneral *E*ducational *Development* test. Basically it's a series of tests that people can take that basically gives them a High School Diploma.
In regards to math it will cover all the kinds that you'll need, and seeing as you've taken the CFAT already you'll be able to narrow down the Math you need to work on.
The GED Books usually describe the methods and ways to solve the problems in good detail and helped me out quite a bit. I failed the test the first time as well in Grade 11. The next time I took the test I passed for all trades. The book no doubt helped.
Sorry if that sounds like a cheesy plug.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

And for anything else on this subject, you can look in the huge section of this forum devoted to the CFAT. 

Locked. This way we don't end up with another huge thread of the same info.


Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## krysta

are you joining as a reserve?
im joining regular force and i dont have to do the pt test ... well until im at BMQ
and another thing i noticed everyone is on such a long wait and waiting for phone calls...
I must have gotten lucky so far everytime i go in i get something scheduled for 2 days later.. 
i just did my test on monday and my medical is on thursday.... but who knows how long it will take for the medical results


----------



## traviss-g

scouthern said:
			
		

> I just wanted to know how it worked, if they only call you in if you don't get your first choice, or none of your choices.


Well, I don't know about that, I applied for Infantry and after my CFAT I still went in a spoke with someone but I did not fail the CFAT and they told me I had applies for my first/only choice. I applied for reg. forces so maybe it is different? Just letting you know, good luck with the rest of your application  !


----------



## CFEdward

I've been doing a lot of reading on this site, about the CFAT and the replies in relation to them. I've noticed a up and down rollercoaster with responses to the CFAT, "it isn't hard at all" to "compared to the example ones they gave you, its really hard!".

I am writing my CFAT on January 8th along with my physical (on the condition of me passing the test), and I am pretty nervous.

I went into a CFRC before winter break and left the SAME day with my scheduled tests. Is that unusual? 

I applied for Artillery in the PRes as a CO-OP student. Now, the Sergeant told me I had to pass these tests ONE shot. 

I'm in grade 11 right now with 15 credits currently, I failed grade 10 academic math, and re-took grade 10 applied math this semester in my grade 11 year. I am currently achieving a high 70 average. 

I am not so strong in my maths as you can see, and my sciences (I failed grade 10 science but the teacher passed me with a 50 for effort). 

Now, what would be the score that I need to achieve on my CFAT to get into Artillery? Also, a question about the physical, for the grip test I need a 75. How hard is a "75" squeeze? 

These tests will determine my next semester, as I would be going to the base everyday instead of school.

Thanks..

*Apologies in advance if I violated any forum rules.


----------



## George Wallace

Welcome to Army.ca. Having only been on the site for the past 30 minutes, here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.

*Army.ca Conduct Guidelines*: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

*Frequently Asked Questions - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41136.0.html*

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html
Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf


Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

CFAT practice test - http://64.254.158.112/pdf/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading, as your answers are all here.


----------



## sm1lodon

http://64.254.158.112/pdf/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf

I tried this link and could not get it to work.

Can someone help me find it and/or correct the link?

I would like to brush up on things to better approach this with some confidence, but it is hard to aim at a target I have never seen, so to speak.


----------



## HeadLamp

http://www.forces.ca/media/_PDF/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf


----------



## sm1lodon

Thanks. That link works. Time to whet my brain.


----------



## HeadLamp

That practice test will get you used to the type of questions that are on the actual CFAT, but from doing a series of random online IQ tests a long time ago I personally feel that they will give you a better idea of the actual caliber of the questions on the CFAT. If you feel that you are extremely weak in some areas and want to brush up, then I strongly suggest searching and completeing some of the free online IQ tests. If you feel fairly confident in your abilities, then the practice link given will definately suffice.

 Good luck.


----------



## sm1lodon

Well, I aced the practice test. I think I will have a go at the IQ tests also.


----------



## missmague

I have my CFAT tomorrow and am having trouble with one question on the practice test. I have studied GED material (I haven't done math since grade 10 and I am almost 30), but cannot figure out how to answer this one question.

It is - How many soldiers are there in a group of 27 sailors and soldiers if there are 4/5ths as many sailors as soliders. 

I keep coming up with 6 (as 80% or 4/5ths of 27 is 21 leaving 6) so obviously I a missing an important step because the answer is 15. 

Does anyone know how these types of questions are done?

Thanks,


----------



## aesop081

missmague said:
			
		

> I have my CFAT tomorrow and am having trouble with one question on the practice test. I have studied GED material (I haven't done math since grade 10 and I am almost 30), but cannot figure out how to answer this one question.
> 
> It is - How many soldiers are there in a group of 27 sailors and soldiers if there are 4/5ths as many sailors as soliders.
> 
> I keep coming up with 6 (as 80% or 4/5ths of 27 is 21 leaving 6) so obviously I a missing an important step because the answer is 15.
> 
> Does anyone know how these types of questions are done?
> 
> Thanks,



That exact question has already been asked and SOLVED on this site.


----------



## Gazoo

The question asks the number of soldiers in comparison to the number of sailors, not to the total of the two.  So since there are 4/5ths as many sailors as soldiers and the total number is 27, I would do the question by the process of elimination.  I would start with 13 sailors and 14 soldiers(since 27 can't be divided in half, needs to be a whole number).  Is there any number that will divide into both 13 and 14 evenly?  NO.  OK then 12 sailors and 15 soldiers.  Wait a minute, 3 divides into 12 (4), and 3 divides into 15 (5) and theres the answer.  Look at the two answers 4 and 5, 4/5ths.  12 sailors is 4/5ths the number of soldiers(15).
I know that is not necessarily a straight forward answer, so if there are any mathemologists out there with a better method, please share.

Gazoo.


----------



## jp86

x will be the number of soldiers.

Start with
x + (4/5 x) = 27
Then, to use the same terms,
(5/5 x) + (4/5 x) = 27
So
(9/5 x) = 27
27/9 = 3
So 1/5 x = 3
(3)(5) = 15

Hope this helps.


----------



## missmague

Sorry CDN Aviator - I didn't see this question already answered. 

Thanks guys for the answers. I was misunderstanding the question - 4 stands for the sailors and 5 for the soliders. I was thinking about it differently. 

Hope this helps with my test tomorrow  ;D


----------



## Lil_T

if you can pick up a grade 4 homeschooling curriculum pack at coles and work on that math - you are good to go.  no lie.  All the math issues I had with fractions, decimals, patterns the workbook REALLY helped.  They also have nets (spatial) that you can study.  You'd be cramming mind you, but I found it worthwhile.


----------



## missmague

Thanks Lil-T 

I have been studying with a GED book - the math portion only. So I have reviewed the fractions, decimals, ratios, etc. 

I haven't studied anything else - my verbal I believe is decent enough and well the spatial I assumed there was no way to study for that - and think it might be a little too late for me now!! I did them all right on the practice test so I hope that is enough help. 

Wish me luck


----------



## aesop081

missmague said:
			
		

> Sorry CDN Aviator - I didn't see this question already answered.



http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/81470/post-787405.html#msg787405

Reply #39


----------



## Lil_T

Good luck.  Don't stress about it


----------



## Fishbone Jones

There's already enough info here about the CFAT. We don't need another thread, especially on something already covered.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## AdamChelo

Hi, I recently wrote my CFAT test and was told that I had done very well, and was offered a position as a reserve officer. I have since dropped out of university and am joining the reg. force. What I would like to know is if those CFAT scores are now useless, or if they may be consulted later on when I am in line for a promotion. Thank you for any insight.

Adam


----------



## Michael OLeary

Depending on how recent the result was, the CFRC may refer to them in your new application process.

As for affecting later promotion, no.  Those results will not be available to unit or (later) career management personnel.


----------



## jacob_ns

As I just wrote the actual CFAT yesterday, I can tell you while the practice test gives you a good idea of the types of questions on the CFAT, the actual CFAT is much more difficult than the practice test.


----------



## X2012

I was wondering if it would be harder! I thought the practice test was a bit tame. So the IQ tests are a good way to go, using the practice test as a reference for the types of questions? I'm trying to get back in touch with the recruiting center about a date for the test, so I want to get some work done on that. It's the fist thing I'm doing, and I'm glad because I'm good at tests. The math should be fine (right now I'm taking calculus, so yeah), and I'm good with English, the only thing I might have trouble with is the spatial reasoning when it comes to cylinders! I'll go try some IQ tests though. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Azizti

This test scares me to shits.
I'm a smart person, I had good grades, but when it comes to math, I fail. No question about it.
Ask me to write a 1000 word essay, I will. Ask me to do a math problem, I will stare at the problem without finding a solution. I would probably find one if I had more then 1 minute per question, but that's not the case!
You guys have any math excercises sites or something where I could pratice ?


----------



## George Wallace

Azizti said:
			
		

> This test scares me to shits.
> I'm a smart person, I had good grades, but when it comes to math, I fail. No question about it.
> Ask me to write a 1000 word essay, I will. Ask me to do a math problem, I will stare at the problem without finding a solution. I would probably find one if I had more then 1 minute per question, but that's not the case!
> You guys have any math excercises sites or something where I could pratice ?



Perhaps the links that were provided in this thread will help.


----------



## kincanucks

Azizti said:
			
		

> This test scares me to shits.
> I'm a smart person, I had good grades, but when it comes to math, I fail. No question about it.
> Ask me to write a 1000 word essay, I will. Ask me to do a math problem, I will stare at the problem without finding a solution. I would probably find one if I had more then 1 minute per question, but that's not the case!
> You guys have any math excercises sites or something where I could pratice ?



Hmmm, difficult problems and limited time = "scares me to shit".  Sounds like the military is a good place for you.


----------



## Azizti

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Hmmm, difficult problems and limited time = "scares me to crap".  Sounds like the military is a good place for you.



It's a figure of speech... Not to be taken literally.
And I'm talking about sit down, math problems.
I do not have a problem with real life crisis situations. I have learnt to keep my cool.


----------



## mdh

Azizti,

If you're unsure about your math skills then you might want to put off writing the CFAT and practice until you're confident you can succeed.  If you write and don't make the minimum score for the trade you're interested in, it's not only unpleasant personally but potentially career limiting in the long term (particularly if you want to change to another trade later that requires a higher CFAT score).

Try reviewing the links on the CFAT page, they're very useful and will give you a good idea of where you stand. Take a look at some courses that are available at either the high school or college level which are designed to improve math skills. 

Finally, why not consider a tutor? Explain to him or her that you need practice in test writing. There's practically an entire industry dedicated to improving math skills - esp. for test taking purposes.

Good luck


----------



## Azizti

Thanks mdh,
Actually, I'm in the process of finding a tutor at the moment.
I will check out the links on the CFAT page also.
I know I have it in me, when I was in HS, if I practiced enough, I would success. Just need to give myself that exta push for math and all will be well.
There is not way I'm letting myself fail  
Cheers.
Going for a run!


----------



## jacob_ns

I was also in the same boat as you. I'm a very smart person but math is my extreme weak point. 

That said, I brushed up on my basic math skills (multiplication, division, fractions, decimals and variations of each) for a few minutes each night before the CFAT and in the end, posted higher than I ever expected; above the officer candidate mark (according to the career counselor).

While there were a few tricky questions, many of them were basic logic tricks where it doesn't require you to actually figure out the answer because it's so obvious which one is right, you just need to interpret the wording of the question correctly.


----------



## turbonium

I found that doing the "Graduate Recruitment Test" for the government helped a lot! It felt much more difficult and longer. I suggest signing up to do that test to practice the CFAT  >


----------



## squeezboks

So I just did the "Graduate Recruitment Test" and scored 36/40 with all my errors coming in the series questions.  I think my biggest problem is that I have completed a minor in Mathematics and I am not sure what kinds of operations are going to looked for.  I can effectively rule out calculus and linear algebra at the same time, I guess I under thought recursion series questions involving powers

(patterns like x2-1, +1)

What I would like to know (if possible) is what is the highest complexity operator I should expect to see in the series recognition questions, does it plateau at powers or can I expect exponential series of the form

ana(n-1)

Thanks.


----------



## aesop081

squeezboks said:
			
		

> So I just did the "Graduate Recruitment Test" and scored 36/40 with all my errors coming in the series questions.  I think my biggest problem is that I have completed a minor in Mathematics and I am not sure what kinds of operations are going to looked for.  I can effectively rule out calculus and linear algebra at the same time, I guess I under thought recursion series questions involving powers
> 
> (patterns like x2-1, +1)
> 
> What I would like to know (if possible) is what is the highest complexity operator I should expect to see in the series recognition questions, does it plateau at powers or can I expect exponential series of the form
> 
> ana(n-1)
> 
> Thanks.



Are you applying for space rocket technician ?


----------



## squeezboks

Biosciences, lol.

Basically, what is the highest level math I should expect to see?  People seem to say Grade 10/Grade 11/Highschool/Common Sense.

I can't remember what I did in Highschool...


----------



## aesop081

squeezboks said:
			
		

> I can't remember what I did in Highschool...




Its gade 10 math.....nothing that should keep people up at night.


----------



## squeezboks

Granted.

I am under the impression that Bioscience is a competitive trade so anything to get me an edge is what I am looking for, CFAT being one of them.  Thanks for the info, I won't worry about the math, should be straight forward then.


----------



## kincanucks

Jesus Wept.  Long division, multiplication of fractions, all Grade 10 math. Problem solving is one portion of the test there is also Verbal Skills and Spatial Ability.


----------



## KateAM

Thank you for reiterating that it's not just a math test, kincanucks.
I just did my CFAT yesterday!

However in regards to the math portion:
As other people have posted, some of us have been out of high school longer. And what some of us may remember as "grade 10" math might be different depending on the curriculum. And personally I don't know if there are or what the standards for high school education comparability are in Canada. I do know that when I went through high school 1999-2002, in Alberta, that the math curriculum changed. And was termed “Applied” and “Pure” Math. And an even more stark comparison is that my mom, who did well in high school in the 1970s thinks she didn't see math that hard when she went through high school when I did grade 10.  I graduated in the “Pure” stream. 

The only thing I noticed was that with the CFAT mathematical side was doing it fast, you either derive the answer quickly, correctly and on the first time or not. Time management skills are what's key there. So go speed test yourself more than anything if you're a little rusty on doing time oriented tests.

I reviewed my study guide for pure math 10 and in comparison the mathematical difficulty of the CFAT  seem easier. I realize that's subjective response, but I don't want get detailed as I don't want to step out of line. As others have already posted, Math.com, is a help. That's about the most difficult math to expect I found. Knowing pure math 10(and including the harder algebra) is NOT necessary. I guess I gave my brain a work out for fun.


----------



## aesop081

This tread makes baby Jesus cry..........


----------



## squeezboks

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> This *thread* makes baby Jesus cry..........



Why? People are just looking for information that will help them with their preparation. Last I checked that is what this particular section of the forums is for.

Sweet merciful crap, if it bothers the baby Jeebus that much then he needs a massage, cause he is clearly wound up tighter than a... never mind.


----------



## George Wallace

....Crying in the womb.


I think that a person asking about the CFAT, and can't read what has been posted already in the way of advice and links to Practice Tests, then that person probably is too dumb to join in the first place.  Jeese!  If we have to lead everyone by the hand and mullycoddle them, then why don't we just do away with the whole testing procedure altogether?  What would we need intelligent, literate, and intuitive people for?  We could hire a whole bunch of sheeple and put them in bright scarlet uniforms to parade up and down Yonge Street and stand on Parliament Hill.


----------



## aesop081

squeezboks said:
			
		

> Why? People are just looking for information that will help them with their preparation.



The maybe they should read the bloody thread. How many more f'ing times must it be repeated that it is grade 10 math ?


----------



## kincanucks

squeezboks said:
			
		

> Why? People are just looking for information that will help them with their preparation. Last I checked that is what this particular section of the forums is for.
> 
> Sweet merciful crap, if it bothers the baby Jeebus that much then he needs a massage, cause he is clearly wound up tighter than a... never mind.



Yes looking for the same information that has been posted a hundred freaking times in several different threads.  It is an aptitude test broken into three parts: verbal, spatial, and problem solving and it is not that hard.  If you don't meet the cutoff score for whatever you are applying for then that is life.  Find something else to do.


----------



## squeezboks

And as stated, what the does grade 10 math entail?

I can't remember what I did in Grade 10, I could go look up the curriculum and spend a bunch of time looking through it, or I could come here and ask a simple question.  For the record, I didn't start a new thread which would seem the greater offence.

Secondly, I read through the bulk of this thread and threads related to it and found only piecemeal information with regards to the math component.  I then took the recommended aptitude tests and found areas of weakness.  Because these tests are NOT the CFAT, I wanted to determine if these particular areas of weakness needed to be addressed or if, in fact, they were above what was required for the CFAT.

I felt it was a legitimate concern because I am applying for a competitive trade and it seems apparent that scoring high on your CFAT makes you a more competitive applicant in the pool.

Constantly stating "It's simple don't worry about it" does not answer the question.  A simple statement of "Yes, you will need to know powers" or "No you won't need to know powers" does. It takes alot less effort.  If you don't know, why bother replying? Furthermore, why belittle people who have a clear interest in the forces, which these forums purport to present information on and who have demonstrated that they have already done the prerequisite research to determine if a) their question has been answered previously or b) there is enough related information to draw an informed conclusion.

Quit being cantankerous.


----------



## aesop081

squeezboks said:
			
		

> And as stated, what the does grade 10 math entail?



Oh for the love of god.......


> I can't remember what I did in Grade 10,



Neither can i but i managed to pass the CFAT 3 times since then......

 You and a few others are keeping yourselves up at night overthinking things. You got your answer now quit spinning yourself up into a frenzy.


----------



## HeadLamp

squeezboks said:
			
		

> Constantly stating "It's simple don't worry about it" does not answer the question.  A simple statement of "Yes, you will need to know powers" or "No you won't need to know powers" does. It takes alot less effort.



 You're not allowed to disclose information about the CFAT.


----------



## George Wallace

Can I ammend that ".......Crying in the womb" to ...."Sweet Jesus crying in the immaculate conception"?


----------



## squeezboks

It seems to me that the only people wound up are those with post-counts over 1000.

I am not particularly concerned or frenzied, it was a simple question (more out of curiousity than concern) and could have been answered simply but apparently thats too hard to do around here.

Enjoy the weekend.  :


----------



## squeezboks

*edited to comply with "Tone and Content" standards*

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

Further, my apologies for my part in furthering a meaningless debate.


----------



## KateAM

squeezboks said:
			
		

> And as stated, what the does grade 10 math entail?
> 
> I can't remember what I did in Grade 10, I could go look up the curriculum and spend a bunch of time looking through it, or I could come here and ask a simple question.



That answer varies depending on curriculum and when you took it.
There's no hard & fast answer.
Or here....

http://www.curriculum.org/csc/library/profiles/10/mathematics_p.shtml

Let me introduce you to my little friend, Google...
(If any can guess what accent I'm thinking of  :hearts: to you!)

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=grade+10+math+curriculum+canada&meta=cr%3DcountryCA


And what I used personally to brush up:
http://www.aestudyguides.com/orders.html
My old trusty high school study guides that helped me do fine in high school.


Questions aren't a bad thing, lack of initiative to research yourself is going to lead to a big helping of sarcasm.  Not unwarranted either, IMO, but I'm in the peanut gallery.


----------



## George Wallace

squeezboks said:
			
		

> ......... could have been answered simply but apparently thats too hard to do around here.



I guess you missed the point.......It was answered simply.......dozens of times.


----------



## PMedMoe

squeezboks said:
			
		

> If someone could direct me to the posts which address whether knowledge of power or exponential functions are required for the CFAT



Here you go, from March 2007, reply #38:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37725.30.html



> A test designed on Gr 10 Math and English shouldn't be difficult for anyone with Gr 10+ education.



Thank you, kincanucks!


----------



## Michael OLeary

See split topic here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/84033.0.html

This thread will be reopened in due course.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Nfld Sapper

CFAT is a common enrollment test (it basically will tell you what trades you can go into) and I highly doubt that there is a waiver for not doing it.

I think the recruiter is misleading you.


----------



## muskrat89

From kincanucks in the post above



> CFAT results can only be requested to be waived if it is determined that the applicant possesses relevant education or experience to the occupation they are applying for (e.g. possesses electronics diploma and is applying for FCS Tech).


----------



## armyvern

Why would you make this post Comedian and PM a cut and paste version to me?

Just curious.


----------



## SupersonicMax

Vern, I got the same PM before he posted.  I imagine it was a mass PM...


----------



## PMedMoe

The Comedian said:
			
		

> My second reason why I sent you the above post is because as per your profile you are a Warrant officer,



I thought you needed 25 posts before being able to view profiles.   ???


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

Moe, we did have that rule in place to protect everyone's e-mail address. Under the old system you could show/hide your address, and since most didn't know the detailed I assumed a great number were showing their address without knowing it.

We've had spammers sign up just to harvest e-mail addresses, so the 25 post count was put in place as protection.

The new software never exposes your e-mail address... it just lets you allow users to contact you via a web form, or not. As a result, there was no need for the 25 post protection rule, so it was lifted.

Hopefully that makes sense...


Cheers
Mike


----------



## PMedMoe

Seen, thanks, Mike.


----------



## muskrat89

To be clear, The Comedian - sending mass PMs is not an appropriate alternative when you're not getting enough answers to a question posted on the board.

Army.ca Staff


----------



## Bird_Gunner45

The CFAT indicates what trades you are appropriate for. Perhaps if you failed as a Sig Op it would benefit you in the long run to see what trades you did qualify for... besides, I didn't realize that you could "fail" the CFAT... that's like failing common sense... and no one in the military has ever seen common sense fail!


----------



## Marshall

Bird_Gunner45 said:
			
		

> The CFAT indicates what trades you are appropriate for. Perhaps if you failed as a Sig Op it would benefit you in the long run to see what trades you did qualify for... besides, I didn't realize that you could "fail" the CFAT... that's like failing common sense... and no one in the military has ever seen common sense fail!



You can fail  A friend of mine had to go twice. I guess there is a cut-off line of some sort.


----------



## Biohazardxj

I got the same PM from this person.  And as I said in my response to it.  Study they weak points and take the test again.  There are no free lunches.


----------



## George Wallace

Reference Reply #12.  

It may also be emphasized that this type of behavior will not be tolerated and could result in the application of the WARNING SYSTEM in the future.


----------



## 2 Cdo

I too recieved this mass mailing and fail to see why I would be sent this. I am not a recruiter, nor do I make CF policy. I am but a small wheel in a big machine and personally have no interest in "the comedians" plight.   :

I would suggest a more appropriate name for him/her would "the clown".


----------



## Selector

I will try to address the OP's question about waivers.  It has been some time since I served, but this is what I am sure still exists in the way of testing policy because the reasoning doesn't change...just the test as it is modified or entirely re-designed:

The CFAT measures one's aptitude as well as general "book" learning".  Each occupation has a minimum requirement (cut-off score) that is a "best predictor" of success.  We don't/can't predict success for reaching the rank of WO,  or of LCol...we can only use the test to predict who will have a sufficient amount of diffiulty in training that they constitute an unreasonable risk of wasting time, confidence, and a lot of money and other resources.  We want the surest bets we can get.

Sometimes, however, a person just doesn't do well on the test, or on written tests in general. At the same time, all sorts of evidence suggests that the test is going to be moot because the person has been doing the work all along, and doing it well.  If you were interested in hiring someone, would you have your nose firmly pointed at the test results, or would you be inclined to give serious credence to concrete evidence of efficacy in the work needing workers?  The reasoning, in that sense, is pretty straightforward...yes?

Test waivers are granted when an officer applicant fails the officer cut-off, but is granted access to training because of other compensating factors.  Apart from a hard and specific degree requirement in some Offr MOCs, others have none.  All we really want is some proof, just as with the NCMs, that the candidate has a modicum of "learning ability".  Anyone who has a degree, for example, has demonstrated to several successive competent raters at one or more universities that he/she has the ability to learn.  What we do in our recruiting screening is to select, from any one cohort of candidates, the best of the lot.  We want to hedge our bets that the people who ultimately warm the seats in the classrooms are going to be able to process and integrate the learning, not in a four year programme, but in the three and six month timespans over which the typical military occupation training takes place.

Does that make sense?

We may find, in some odd cases, that someone applying for Inf 31 can't seem to pass the CFAT.  Now what?  Well, wait a minute, the person has a BSc in Cartography.  Not half shabby.  A degree is a degree, and how imporant is a degree in Cargoraphic Science to an Infantry Officer?  Well, sort of, but not really...if you follow.  Then why impose on ourselves the impediment of declining this potential INF 31 candidate solely on the basis of an odd test result?  The lady/guy can learn, so let's assume that the test result is spurious, _or not a valid predictor of success...in this case._

Without going long, that, in a nutshell, is some of the reasoning for granting waivers.


----------



## stewacide

My friend failed the CFAT about a year ago (going into it blind). He wants to be a combat engineer, and is a super handy guy - can weld, lots of construction and machine experience, etc. - but for whatever reason tests shake him up. Is there any chance, were he to write it again and still fall a bit short, or short of the requirement for combat engineer (higher than for infantry?), that he might get a pass based on demonstrated experience?

He's not planning to fail by any means (will study hard for it this time), but apparently you only get a second try so he's understandably very worried.

p.s. I had a somewhat strange experience with the CFAT. I wrote it +6 years ago in high school with the reserves on my mind, but never followed through on it. The recruiters told me I crushed the test (perfect in two sections, extremely well in the 3rd, I think math), but at the time I figured that's what they told everyone to make them feel good about signing up. So anyway ~6 years later I apply for an officer position, having forgotten about the old test, and when I was about to write it again they pulled the old test up and told me I'd be crazy to write it again: there's almost no chance I'd do better and it almost certainly wouldn't matter anyway. I guess the moral is write it while you're young and sharp, to spare yourself the trouble when you're old and slow


----------



## PMedMoe

stewacide said:
			
		

> My friend failed the CFAT about a year ago (going into it blind). He wants to be a combat engineer, and is a super handy guy - can weld, lots of construction and machine experience, etc. - but for whatever reason tests shake him up. Is there any chance, were he to write it again and still fall a bit short, or short of the requirement for combat engineer (higher than for infantry?), that he might get a pass based on demonstrated experience?



In a word?  No.  But I could be wrong.


----------



## Selector

It is up to the gaining Career Manager and the Recruiting Staff to negotiate in odd cases where a person has demonstrated ability, but can't seem to step across the cattle gate that is the CFAT.  If the occupation is really short, and the person offers tangible potential to fill a spot, the system can always offer a waiver.  The trouble is that the CFAT is an indicator of learning ability.  If the person is not going to be successful in classroom learning later on, notably of the type that helps him/her to get promoted, it means the person may have to be kept at a low rank for the duration.

Additionally, the reality is that there is almost always a sufficient pool of recruits from which to choose, so those who wish to serve, but who cannot meet the cut-off for the test, are essentially easily dismissed.  It behooves us to take the "surest thing", and not gamble that we won't end up with a vacant seat in the classroom because the one person we felt bad for, or that we were quite sure would prevail, ends up a miserable failure.  That hurts us, and it doesn't do the candidate much good.  We do have standards, people do have to complete POs and written tests, and they must be able to generate PERs and such later on if they get to a supervisory position.  

I hope I am making sense.


----------



## oksun7103

I was never worried about passing the CFAT until I started reading the posts on here, now my confidence has gone down dramatically... I finished high school with the bare minimum required courses, pretty much just squeaked by, and that was 8 years ago. Is the test based off a pecentage?


----------



## romeokilo

A quote from the great (honest, this man is great) George Wallace:
Search CFAT and you will find tonnes of info on it.  For instance:

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT): Questions and Answers   http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

Just got the call for CFAT.   http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34855.0.html

CFAT PREP COURSE   http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37725.0.html

CFAT Testing     http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34069.0.html

CFAT didn't go so well..    http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32923.0.html

 CFAT - Questions??     http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30956.0.html

Hints to do well on the CFAT (aptitude test)     http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25548.0.html

.......and there are many more.


Believe me, your answer WILL be in there.

Good luck! You'll be fine!


----------



## PMedMoe

Also, your marks in high school may or may not have any bearing on the CFAT.  Aptitude and knowledge, are, IMHO, two very different things.  I also "just squeaked by" in high school.  I did the (old) CFAT in '85 and scored quite well.  I got to do the new CFAT in '98 (after having been out of school for 15 years) and scored in the 95th percentile in vocabulary and spatial and in the 90th on the math.


----------



## walkhard

If i can pass it, ANYONE can pass it!


----------



## the_girlfirend

Practice basic maths calculation, multiplication, division, addition, substraction, fractions, decimals, percentages... stop being worried and start practicing... that is the only thing useful you can do!

good luck


----------



## aesop081

Can we merge this with the CFAT monster thread please ?


----------



## Randifur

You will be fine, I am a dumbass(ask around these forums) and I qualified for everything...literly Pilot to Medic!

INFANTRY LEADS THE WAY, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! iper:


----------



## KodyN202

Was just wondering what kind of score you need for reg force Infantry. Some of you said 18/60 was minimum, so I would assume around 25/60? Just wondering, cause my math is horrible and i don't want this to screw me out of something I know I would be good at. Any help would be awesome! PS. I did search around for a thread that I could just post this in instead of spamming up another topic, but it seemed that all the other threads of this nature that I found in the search were all locked, sorry. Well of course as soon as I post this there would be a " JUST TOOK THE CFAT" Thread that I somehow looked over the first run through  ..


----------



## Kat Stevens

Section 1: Spell name (correctly).  Congratulations, you're in!


----------



## 2 Cdo

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Section 1: Spell name (correctly).  Congratulations, you're in!



True but the engineer score doesn't even involve spelling your name correctly! ;D


----------



## George Wallace

:  And so is this thread.

READ the CFAT threads.

If you had, you would have read several times that the SCORES are not publicized.  You do the test and the CFRC will tell you whether or not you qualify.  That is it.......Period.........Full Stop.



Another CFAT Topic LOCKED.


----------



## FatalSinz

[RESERVIST] So, you've heard it over 30 times in your military life. "CFAT". Now. To me, its hell. I'm really good with english and spatial skills...mathematical not so good. I've been in the military since January '08. BMQ/SQ Qualified. Currently in the Cook trade (not wanting), and currently working as a Veh. Tech (Class B). The irony is that Cook is the lowest on the test, and Veh. Tech is one of the highest. Funny how it works that way eh?

Anyway. So i failed the first time i took the CFAT by 1 mark. I was originally wanting Infantry with CHofO. That didn't turn out so well, my morale was shot, and i didn't have any other options except Cook and Steward. As i wanted neither at the time, i just walked away. The first time i took it I must have been about 16/17, still in High School. The second time around, i decided to retry it a year and a little later. I studied a bit the second time, clearly not as good as I should have so i failed the second time. My morale once again, shot, BUT, I took the Cook position to at least get my foot in the door and deal with the situation later on. I think it was a huge turning point in my life as it was a great strategy because this way I'm still able to do stuff inside the military. So since i joined as a Cook i've gotten BMQ/SQ done, as well as several taskings and exercises completed. As i've stated, I'm currently working as a Veh Tech on a Class B which is rather shocking considering its EME and i'm a SVC BN member as well as a "No-Hook" Private. I'd say as a Private, i lead a rather satisfactory life within the military.

The purpose of this thread was to inquire to methods of going abouts/around the CFAT. I know i'm a smart person, there is no doubt in my mind about it. I can't do written tests for crap, meaning the CFAT being an online test which to me translates as written, i failed to do well in. I'm definitely a hands-on learner. That's how i've done as well i have now. So, i'm wanting to roll over into Armored; Reg Force, but APARENTLY i'm going to have to redo the CFAT. Considering as to how I didn't do well the first/second time, i can't see me doing well now, and personally, if i fail again, its just going to be another mental thrashing and to be honest, it scares me, and it is probably the single most painful experience i've ever had in my life. Is there a way that i'm able to use whatever i've done in the military so far to present to CFRC and explain to them "I've done this and this and this, i work in one of the most difficult trades in the CF, is there a possibility of bypassing the CFAT?"

I come here because instead of going straight to the source, i want to hear other peoples thoughts first before i hear the real answer. People that i've met in the CF enjoy my company as I am always generating very positive morale all around, and that i am a dedicated, and hard worker.



On a sidenote, I would like to share my opinions on the CFAT. Before i start, its not b**ching or moaning. For me, it's expressing my thoughts because i'm not alone in these thoughts.

The CFAT (Canadian Forces _*Aptitude*_ Test) is taken literally. It shouldn't be. (Pulled from Wikipedia): An aptitude is an innate, acquired or learned or developed component of a competency (being the others: knowledge, understanding and attitude) to do a certain kind of work at a certain level. The innate nature of aptitude is in contrast to achievement, which represents knowledge or ability that is gained.

The way I see it, is that whatever you get on the CFAT, should only be a guideline of what you can and can't do to give you a general idea of what you could possibly succeed at. Needless to say, i think the CFAT is entirely bogus. The CFAT not only lowers morale, but it prevents candidates from doing whatever it is they want to do. For example, I wanted infantry. Based on what i've done in the military so far, i've done the equivalent as that to a DP1 qualified Infanteer. I've had ZERO problems in both Infantry expectations as well as EME Veh Tech expectations. The CFAT cannot and should not limit you to what you can and cannot do. It just isn't fair and it isn't morally right to do it to people. As for me, i've always been bummed I didn't "pass" the CFAT no matter what i've done in the military. As a Cook right now, i don't want the trade. Not because it's no good, it's just nothing i want to do.

As for the Cook trade, it is VERY demanding and requires alot of mathematical skills as well as a large amount of responsibility to follow. No matter what score you get on the CFAT, it should not determine what you do. If you cannot do the trade, it will simply come down to how well you perform during your trades courses. As for me, i've seen what to expect as a cook, infanteer AND Armored. All of which i am able to do with absolute ease. Why can't I try the trades? Because i can't get on-screen math questions right. You can't use a calculator, which in most mathematical situations you get in, you have either a calculator or a friend to help you out. Either way, the problem will be solved one way or another. One thing is for sure, my math mark determined my trade between Infantry, and Cook. As a cook, good math skills are a MUST as you have to convert measurements which can be very tricky. The only time you'll frequently need math (to my knowledge) is for Navigation which I believe you don't do very often . Granted its great and handy to know how to Nav, but anyone can learn it, no matter how strong your skills are.

Lets say you only qualify to be a cook, and you fail at it. The test said that you could do it. Yes, bold statement, but, then again, if you're not able to do infantry, it's because you don't meet the mental capacity. Then why did you fail at the Cook trade even while you were legitimately trying, (because you could say that failure didn't try at all. Lets assume hypothetically he tried his hardest).

So with that said, if you can't get that, why offer any trades at all? You can't fail it per-se. You can just not get what trade you want. But Cook and Steward are ALWAYS available. Why isn't any other trade?

Financial. I'm not a money guy, so admitting, i can't go too far into detail about this part. Based on what i've heard from other people in regards to my argument, "they" state that it's a money issue. They don't want to train people if they're going to fail. As far as i'm concerned, I don't care what you do, any trade you can fail/succeed at, no matter how smart you are. 

If there is any input that you fine members of this forum would like to add, please feel free. I'm all ears. 

P.S. Do you need to be QL3 qualified in the current trade before switching to the next? (This happened to a friend of mine.)


----------



## Roy Harding

FatalSinz said:
			
		

> ...I'm really good with english and spatial skills...



I'd take issue with that - but be that as it may.

I first considered removing your post - and depending on where this goes, I still may.

However - in amongst all the learned hypothesizing regarding the legitimacy of the CFAT test, you do ask some valid questions.

Get this, however - you cannot "Bypass" the CFAT - and attempting to do so is just a waste of your time - so stop trying and turn your considerable efforts to something more productive.  There are many threads here regarding how to prepare oneself for the CFAT - have a read.  If you can't find them (they're here in the "Recruiting Office" forum), let me know and I'll give you a hand (finding the threads - not prepping for the CFAT).

Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

There lots of other CFAT threads going...I really don't see why we need another. locked usual caveats.

milnet.Ca Staff


----------



## Rider12

Hey everybody,

I'm just in the process of joining the army reserves in BC and I have a couple questions about training. 

1. As I understand, there are summer and weekend BMQ courses offered. Are they usually run at regular intervals so I could start in Jan or Feb sometime?

2. How long does the weekend course run and can you do SQ on weekends as well?

3. Are the courses easy to balance with Uni?

I tried to contact the recruiter at the unit I'm joining but I don't get an answer. I also searched and found some answers but this is what I have left.

Any answers on this would be very helpful


----------



## MikeL

1.) There is usually a weekend BMQ course ran during the fall/winter and a couple serials ran in the summer.  If you join to late an miss the weekend BMQ course than if you can you would do the summer course, unless you wait a year an do the next weekend BMQ course.  - As for how many serials are run, it is dependent if they can get enough Soldiers to staff the course, aswell as have enough recruits course loaded so they can run the course.

2.) Reserve BMQ is 22(?) Training Days.  As for weekend SQ, I believe there have been courses run, but I don't know how often or if it is still done or even which Reserve Brigades do it.

3.) That would depend on you, a lot of people can manage Reserves with School an a Civvie job some have difficulties. 

Keep trying to call the Reserve unit Recruiter an/or go to the unit on a parade night, ask the Recruiter questions an if you can ask some of the Soldiers in the unit whatever questions you may have.


----------



## Rider12

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> 1.) There is usually a weekend BMQ course ran during the fall/winter and a couple serials ran in the summer.  If you join to late an miss the weekend BMQ course than if you can you would do the summer course, unless you wait a year an do the next weekend BMQ course.  - As for how many serials are run, it is dependent if they can get enough Soldiers to staff the course, aswell as have enough recruits course loaded so they can run the course.
> 
> 2.) Reserve BMQ is 22(?) Training Days.  As for weekend SQ, I believe there have been courses run, but I don't know how often or if it is still done or even which Reserve Brigades do it.
> 
> 3.) That would depend on you, a lot of people can manage Reserves with School an a Civvie job some have difficulties.
> 
> Keep trying to call the Reserve unit Recruiter an/or go to the unit on a parade night, ask the Recruiter questions an if you can ask some of the Soldiers in the unit whatever questions you may have.



Thanks for the reply, Skeletor

If I can get on a weekend BMQ that would be preferable with my work and such but anything is possible. Is it a big problem if I refuse the summer course and wait until fall or is that a pain in the ass for the rest of the regiment? 

Thanks


----------



## kratz

A reserve unit will plan their training schedule well in advance based on their mandate and anticipated numbers for each course. It is unlikely a unit will be able to offer or even wish to offer all courses in a given training year. If you do not have a valid reason for refusing a career course can set yourself up 
for administrative or training problems later on. Remember, what you personally consider a valid reason, might not be accepted by your unit.


----------



## bran

1)BMQ is usually ran twice in the fall/winter. One in October and one in January. 

2) BMQ is 20 days (10 weekends). SQ can be done on the weekends as well. It's only likely that you'll get an SQ weekend course if you start BMQ in Oct, if not you'd get a full time SQ course in the summer.


----------



## sharp_85

I'm not sure how they would run the training courses at your unit but I'll give you the training schedule for my unit in Alberta.

We have a weekend BMQ course running October to February followed by a weekend SQ course from February to March. Last summer we did have one full time BMQ and SQ course from July to the end of August. We also have a co-op course that is half days (1200-1800) Monday to Friday but that probably wouldn't work very good with a University schedule.

Keep in mind that for all these courses simply because they have been scheduled does not mean that they will run for sure. It depends on the number of candidates on the course, whether the units can find enough staff to instruct on the course and now whether there is money in the unit budget to run the courses. I would imagine that units in B.C. are running into these same dilemmas. 

I don't know how easy it would be for you to balance your schedule with the weekend courses, but I wouldn't think that it would be very easy. School during the week and then training Friday night to Sunday night. It's a lot of learning and no breaks especially with any big assignments. I'm in college and just finished the summer courses and would recommend going that way if you can. Sure you don't end up with much of a summer vacation but you come out with a decent amount of money saved up and you can focus on school.

Hope that helps you out!


----------



## bmackay

Rider12 i am also in the same situation you are..
I have a full time civi job, but want to get the resevre BMQ and SQ done in the new year. Im also from BC, are you from the vancoiver area? would be nice to try to get more ppl together if these courses dont have enough candidates, i know a few who are ready to go for their training also. Maybe we could get it filled up for the new year.
i was also told that SQ could be run part time, i would love to get it done in the summer fulltime... just try telling the boss that.


----------



## Rider12

Thanks for the all the great replies, everybody! At this point, if I'm offered my position, I'll take whatever I can get. Really, I can make either weekends or summers work for me. Although weekends would be nice.



			
				bmackay said:
			
		

> Rider12 i am also in the same situation you are..
> I have a full time civi job, but want to get the resevre BMQ and SQ done in the new year. Im also from BC, are you from the vancoiver area? would be nice to try to get more ppl together if these courses dont have enough candidates, i know a few who are ready to go for their training also. Maybe we could get it filled up for the new year.
> i was also told that SQ could be run part time, i would love to get it done in the summer fulltime... just try telling the boss that.


Yeah, I'm from the Vancouver area. I'm lucky that I'm working for a family business. As long as they're not short staffed, I'm told I can take a couple months off  Maybe we could start another thread here and collect candidates for weekend BMQ.


----------



## kratz

[quote author=Rider12]Maybe we could start another thread here and collect candidates for weekend BMQ.[/quote]

After a quick search on the topic of "weekend BMQ", there are already a number of threads discussing this topic. Is there a need for another one?

weekend block course BMQ

Where is Weekend BMQ

Weekend BMQ

Anyone going on Calgary weekend BMQ April 8

Weekend BMQ Questions for those in the know

BMQ every other weekend ??

Weekend BMQ Course

Weekend Basic Training

Started Reserve BMQ (Weekends)


----------



## VIChris

kratz said:
			
		

> After a quick search on the topic of "weekend BMQ", there are already a number of threads discussing this topic. Is there a need for another one?
> 
> weekend block course BMQ
> 
> Where is Weekend BMQ
> 
> Weekend BMQ
> 
> Anyone going on Calgary weekend BMQ April 8
> 
> Weekend BMQ Questions for those in the know
> 
> BMQ every other weekend ??
> 
> Weekend BMQ Course
> 
> Weekend Basic Training
> 
> Started Reserve BMQ (Weekends)



Most of those threads are a few years old, and only one held any real info relating to the questions posted above.


----------



## kratz

VIChris, you did not include my whole post in your critism of answer. My reply # 8, quoted Rider12's specific comment in reply # 7. 

You are correct the threads I found are old, and my point was too often new threads are started without anyone searching and applying their comments to a relevant thread. 

Example: Weekend BMQ - last post 2005, new post 2009, it saves bandwidth=money for the private owner of this site.


----------



## VIChris

kratz said:
			
		

> VIChris, you did not include my whole post in your critism of answer. My reply # 8, quoted Rider12's specific comment in reply # 7.
> 
> You are correct the threads I found are old, and my point was too often new threads are started without anyone searching and applying their comments to a relevant thread.
> 
> Example: Weekend BMQ - last post 2005, new post 2009, it saves bandwidth=money for the private owner of this site.



You're right, my bad. Your first post was more insightful. I just find a certain level of frustration when being directed towards necroposts, or hollow threads. It's a no win situation, as often times people will rag on a new guy for bringing back a 4 year old dead thread too.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

VIChris said:
			
		

> You're right, my bad. Your first post was more insightful. I just find a certain level of frustration when being directed towards necroposts, or hollow threads. It's a no win situation, as often times people will rag on a new guy for bringing back a 4 year old dead thread too.



Well its six of one and half a dozen of the other.........


----------



## kratz

I know what you mean VIChris. This summer the DS provided guidance encouraging necroposts  in order to reduce the frustration you mentioned. Since then, the number of posts ragging on someone bringing back an old thread has been reduced.

There is an additional benefit in continuing old thread discussons (ie: Weekend BMQ), it helps the search function produce more accurate results for new members who use it.


----------



## VIChris

Thanks for clarifying official policy. That is indeed a great help, and I'll keep that in mind as I come up with more questions of my own. 

Cheers!


----------



## p2shanmu

I have already finished my CFAT and did well. Qualified for 2/3 trades. I didn't qualify for AEC. Will rewriting a CFAT will make my profile more competitive with other applicants?


----------



## FDO

CFAT scores only qualify you for the trade. It does helpmake you any  more or less competitive. However, you must understand that if you write it again THAT is the score that will count. So if you score lower your score will be lower. We do not take the best of the two. MAke sure you know what your doing before you do it!

(corrected as pointed out, I got to stop typing while I'm talking to my boss)


----------



## kincanucks

"CFAT scores only qualify you for the trade. It does not make you any more or less competitive."

So recruiting no longer considers the CFAT result when calculating an overall score for an applicant to determine their competiveness?


----------



## CFR FCS

"CFAT scores only qualify you for the trade. It does not make you any more or less competitive." 

Incorrect. CFAT scores are used in the calculation of your overall Military Potential score along with your school marks plus your interview results. The Higher the CFAT score the higher the overall score therefore making your more competitive.


----------



## FDO

Already corrected my last fiasco. I was typing one thing while I was listening to someone talk in my ear about something totally outside work. 

Everyone who jumped to my aid is absolutly correct the CFAT counts all round. The point I was trying to make before I lost the bubble was becareful about re-writing the CFAT. The second score is the one we count. It can go both ways. If you score higher then it makes you more competitive and opens up more opportunites. If you score lower you become less competitive and could close some opportunities.

Other things go towards your compeitiveness as well. 

(by the way proofreading is a good thing. I'll try it more often!!)


----------



## thebigunit

Im having a REAL hard time finding good links to math problems, specifically the word problem questions.  Ones like:

1.  In 4 years time Angela will be twice as old as Barry and 4 times as old as Carol.  3 Years ago Angela was 3 times as old as Barry.  How old are Angela, Barry, and Carol now?

I cant for the LIFE of me figure out these type of questions and my test is on teh 4th (second attempt) 

I already have studied my basic math like; long division, percentage, some fractional work, etc....but I am SOOOO scared (make that horrified) that I wont be able to pass the word problem areas and fail. I cannot fail!

Can someone help?


Thank YOU


----------



## MSEng314

First of all: relax! The CFAT is not that difficult, and you are not very likely to "fail."

Secondly, it's not testing your studying, it's testing your aptitude; if you don't have an aptitude for doing word problems, it's probably not something you can cram for and learn the day before the test.

That being said, if you want to practice, find a grade ten math textbook, and pick a handful of problems and do them in your head (ie no calculator, and hand writing the steps).

Good luck!


----------



## thebigunit

Thank you.

Yes I should relax, its part of the game but this is my second attempt and you cant ever apply again if you fail twice.  That is what makes me scared, but I will try and relax

Yeah I agree that it is a aptitude test and you cant really study, but its good to brush up on as well.  I like going into things prepared and this is so important to me

Thanks again for the response and I will listen by relaxing


----------



## MSEng314

That's the spirit, if you stress out about it you will only make it harder for yourself,  just go in calm and cool and you should be just fine.


----------



## thebigunit

Exactly ;D

Thanks again, I appreciate this help


----------



## Ksiiqtaboo

just make sure that you read the problem and look at what the question is really asking you.... they put in alot of useless info in the question to confuse you..


----------



## mdh

try this site, might help...

http://www.onlinemathlearning.com/algebra-word-problems.html

If you're not sure you are ready for the math, then you might want to wait until you are totally confident -- take a formal course or find a tutor.  I wouldn't relax about it.

good luck


----------



## turbonium

I've said it before in another post. Sign up for the "Graduate Recruitment Test" in the public sector of the government. The test helped me a lot! Gave me a lot more confidence and made the CFAT go smoothly.


----------



## SupersonicMax

thebigunit said:
			
		

> Im having a REAL hard time finding good links to math problems, specifically the word problem questions.  Ones like:



This may or may not help, but here you go:



			
				thebigunit said:
			
		

> 1.  In 4 years time Angela will be twice as old as Barry and 4 times as old as Carol.  3 Years ago Angela was 3 times as old as Barry.  How old are Angela, Barry, and Carol now?



Assign 'variables' to things that change in the problem, in order to make the statement work.  In this problem, the age of 3 persons (Angela, Barry and Carol) will change. Lets call them x (Angela's age as of today), y (Barry's age as of today) and z (Carol's age as of today).  It's just easier to write.

So, the problem says that in 4 years (add 4 to the current ages), Angela will be twice as old as Barry.

So,

x+4 = 2*(y+4)

Also, it says that in 4 years , Angela will be 4 times older than Carol, so:

x+4=4*(z+4)

The problem also says that 3 years ago (substract 3 to the current ages), Angela was 3 times older than Barry, so:

x-3=3*(y-3)

So you see, the variables of equation 1 and 3 are the same (x and y or Angela's and Barry's age as of Today)

Now, we need to isolate a common variable in those 2 equations.  For a sake of ease, let's go with Angela's age, or x:

For equation 1, we get:

x= 2*(y+4)-4

For equation 3, we get:

x=3*(y-3)+3

Now, we can substitude x from equation 1 into equation 3:

 2*(y+4)-4=3*(y-3)+3

Now, we need to do the same thing we did with Angela's age before (x) with Barry's age : isolate it:

2y+8-4=3y-9+3
8-4+9-3=3y-2y
10=y

We know now that Barry's age  as of today is 10.

We can go back to equation 1 or 3 and find Angela's age, by substituing Barry's, age in the equations.  It doesn't matter which one you use, it will give you the same answer.

Let's use equation 1 (with Angela's age being isolated):

x= 2*(y+4)-4

x=2*(10+4)-4
x=2*(14)-4
x=28-4
x=24

We now know that Angela's age is 24.  To prove that using eighter equation 1 or 3 doesn't matter, let's do the same thing with equation 3:

x=3*(y-3)+3
x=3*(10-3)+3
x=3*(7)+3
x=21+3
x=24

Now, using the second equation, we can find Carol's age as of today:

x+4=4*(z+4)
x+4=4z+16
x+4-16=4z
x-12=4z
(x-12)/4=z
z=(x-12)/4
z=(24-12)/4
z=(12)/4
z=3

So Carol's age is... 3!

There it is.  As simple as that.  The only way to succesfully do this kind of problem is by establising relationship (equations) between what's given (variables).  Then, with these relationships, you can methodically and with logic find the answers.  A little trick, in you have 3 variables, but only 2  equations, you will not be able to definately find a solid answer for all 3 variables.  One of variable will be equal to a relationship that will depend on what the other 2 values of the variable are.


----------



## Corey Darling

Thanks 



> http://www.onlinemathlearning.com/algebra-word-problems.html



Sry, I deleted my previous post after visiting that site.  Great resource


----------



## goldenhamster

This problem looks like one of those in GMAT. 
I think it is easier/more logical if we make a table for this type of problem.

So let's assume that their age (in years) are:
Angela  = A
Barry  = B
Carol = C


 AGE         3 years ago       today         4 years from now

Angela           A-3                  A                  A+4

Barry             B-3                   B                  B+4

Carol             C-3                   C                  C+4


In 4 years, Angela will be twice as old as Barry.  If we look at the 4th column:

A+4 = 2*(B+4)


3 years ago, Angela was 3 times older than Barry; from the 2nd column:

A-3 = 3*(B-3)


Here we have 2 equations and 2 variable (A and B), so with substitutions, we can get A and B.


In 4 years time Angela  will be 4 times as old as Carol.  Thus,

A+4=4*(C+4)

We already know A, so we can solve for C.


I have seen similar problem but more complicated ones, e.g. involving 5 people instead of 3, and I found this method works best.

Cheers,

 :christmas happy:


----------



## 1911CoLt45

Hello

I received the call today for a postion as an infantry officer in the reserves.  I understand that this is not a great occasion but the start of a long process in determining my eligibility for this job.  The CFAT and other tests will ultimately determine if I am capable for this job.

It is the CFAT that I am concerned about the most and I am wondering what level of mathematics  should I focus on to study as I am not the strongest in this specific subject.  

Thank you


----------



## FDO

The CFAT is based on grade 10. However, you should have a higher level than that. Go on line and do any and all aptitude  or IQ tests you can. G and get the GED book or go to Chapters or Indigo or any other large bookstore and get any book on aptitude tests. 

 As an Officer you will need to score higher than someone wanting to be an NCM. And NO I will NOT tell you what the cut off is so don't bother to ask. Score as high as you can and go from there,


----------



## 1911CoLt45

Thanks for the tips

I'm defiantly not going for the bare minimum.  Already have the GED book, Thanks for the posting.


----------



## dangerboy

OK I have to ask, how did you get offered a position before they even know if you qualify for it seems pretty ass backwards to me.  Used to be you wrote the CFAT and based on that the told you what was available based on how you did.


----------



## George Wallace

dangerboy said:
			
		

> OK I have to ask, how did you get offered a position before they even know if you qualify for it seems pretty ass backwards to me.  Used to be you wrote the CFAT and based on that the told you what was available based on how you did.



OK.  I can answer this.

As a prospective Reservist, (s)he will have to apply to a Reserve Unit first and be accepted (in this case as an officer candidate) after which the Reserve Unit will give the prospect a letter of acceptance that they will take down to the CFRC with all of their application forms and then  start the Recruitment process.  The CFRC will not process a prospect for a Reserve unit without that letter.  

Once the prospect has dropped off the application forms with an acceptance letter from a Reserve unit, then the CFRC will start the process of booking the CFAT, Medical and Physical Fitness Test, etc.


----------



## dangerboy

Interesting, thanks for the info George. I learned something new.


----------



## George Wallace

Does this now mean that (s)he will become an officer?  No.

They still have to make it through BMOQ/BMQ, CAP, and Phase Trg like every other officer candidate.


----------



## PMedMoe

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Does this now mean that (s)he will become an officer?  No.
> 
> They still have to make it through BMOQ/BMQ, CAP, and Phase Trg like every other officer candidate.


And get a qualifying score on the CFAT, have no medical problems, pass the PT test......
......at least, I should hope so.


----------



## FDO

Not to mention during the interview convince the MCC they are competent. (I know hard to believe sometimes)


----------



## Steel Badger

And sometimes the 'convincing' directs the applicant in a wholly unforseen direction! >


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Are Reserve Officer candidates still boarded by the Regimental Senate?


----------



## FDO

In Toronto yes as far as we know. we need a letter from the Regiment CO before we will process a Reserve Officer.


----------



## Michael OLeary

recceguy said:
			
		

> Are Reserve Officer candidates still boarded by the Regimental Senate?



Not by a Senate, but usually by a regimental/unit board of four members, three being from the unit which the applicant wishes to join and one from another unit.  All board members are usually Captains or Majors.


----------



## GhostUnit

I know I know, the FAQ is right above.  It serves a purpose, I know.  Although I would personally like to ask a question, with my own preferences. 

I'm 18, been out of High School(Graduated, all credits) for about a year.  I wasn't so great in Math, but enough to get by.  

I've been more and more interested in becoming a soldier, preferably a Armoured Soldier.  Now, I read up on everything there is to know about them, what they do, etc.  I went to the Recruiting center, and got a application fillout.  Currently filling it out and finding references.  Anyway.

My case in point, I was looking through the Practice Test for the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test.  I was smiling, and getting all the answers correct.  Then came along Problem Solving.

My smile quickly turned to a "Huh?" with a quirked eyebrow and definitive demolished look on my face.  I was left clueless, my brain wanted to try to word it all together but it broke, over and over.

Note, these are only on the practice test, not real test.

*A team of clothing workers had an output of 1,000 uniforms per week.  This output was increased by 20%, which demanded an increase of 50 uniforms per worker.  How many workers are there on the team?*

Now, I did 1,000 x .2 (%20) = 1,200.  Then I divided it by 50.  24.  The answer was 4.  I then tried to run over and over with questions in my head. 

I just could not get it.  

I'm really thinking I might fail "Problem Solving" part of the test.  I don't want to consider myself dumb, but rather illogical with problem solving.  

Is there any way that the recruiter might be able to point or help out, like read the question to me?


----------



## PMedMoe

No.


----------



## HavocSteve

Do what I did.. IQ brain teasers. You can google them and find hours upon hours of IQ tests that range in difficulty and also getting GED or SAT test books from your library is also a good idea.


----------



## GhostUnit

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> No.



Thanks for the help ;D



			
				HavocSteve said:
			
		

> Do what I did.. IQ brain teasers. You can google them and find hours upon hours of IQ tests that range in difficulty and also getting GED or SAT test books from your library is also a good idea.



Mmm, I was thinking of doing that, I was trying to look up on the sites that they referenced inside of the package.  Though most of them are outdated, and or of significant difficulties.


----------



## AmmoTech90

In case you are having trouble with the solution:

20% of 1000=200
Each worker has to make 50 more
Therefore 200/50=4 workers


----------



## Macrinus88

Hello, Im planning to join the Reserves this summer and Im gonna go Reg after I complete a diploma in Police Foundations, hoping to get in the Military Police. I have the marks to get in University but Im probably going to join as NCM after getting a diploma in Police foundations. Anyway my weakness is Problem Solving, I only got 5/10 on the practice test, I was never good at math and I always excelled in the Social Sciences at school. The math on the CFAT test is grade 10 right? Does anyone know some good websites to study for this? I have a site here,  would this be good for helping me prepare as in are the questions similar? 

http://www.mystfx.ca/special/mathproblems/grade10.html

Im going to get a grade 10 math book from the Library soon, Im planning to join Reserves around May 15-20, Is that a good time to join? Hope I can do well on the CFAT to also qualify for the Military Police Trade. Im also wondering, if your signing up for NCM and you do the aptitude test, would they beadle to tell you if you still qualify to be an officer to? I know you need a Uni degree, I might wanna join as an officer but that would all depend on how well I do on the CFAT, I can probably get in York uni for Jan 2011, I would wanna do 1 or 2 sessions of summer school to get it done faster but if your wanting to be in the army I don't think thats possible, since you have to be at a base when the academic years over if you join as an officer.


----------



## Silverfire

As far as studying for your CFAT, this was the page I was given, 

PREPARING FOR YOUR CANADIAN FORCES APTITUDE TEST (CFAT) 
CFRC TORONTO
Updated 20 Oct 08

"In order to help you prepare for the CFAT, below are several internet websites that you can access.  It is highly recommended that you consider looking at some of these sites.  If you were unsuccessful on your first attempt you must wait three (3) months to re-write.  If you are unsuccessful a second time you will require significant academic upgrading before you can attempt the test a third time. 

The CFAT is similar but not identical to many internet sites that offer free Aptitude/IQ.  Below are some examples:

www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=12
www.intelligencetest.com
www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/pract-test-examn-pract/gct2-ecg2-pract-i-eng.htm
www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/index-eng.htm

In addition, you could conduct an internet search using the following keywords:

Aptitude test
Practice aptitude test
Practice IQ test
Aptitude test strategy

You may also want to refresh your math skills by visiting www.math.com and/or borrowing a General Education Diploma (GED) study book from your local library. 

A focus on Verbal Skills, Spatial Ability, and Problem Solving throughout your preparation would be in your best interest.

Work hard and good luck."

Check those links out as they were extremely helpful.


----------



## Macrinus88

Alright thanks for your help, Won't need help on the Aptitude test now I did have other questions on joining if anyone can answer those if its not a problem. Also, I did write the CFAT one time I was gonna join the army for school co-op but in 2nd semester grade 12 I had bad insomnia problems I ended up writing the CFAT dehydrate and sleepy, could only qualify to become a chef. I ended up writing it again and couldn't qualify to be anything, they let me write it again 3 days later I believe. I wasn't mentally fit during that time but I don't have those problems anymore.


----------



## Apollo55

I wrote my CFAT about 3 weeks ago, and honestly, all I can say is to not worry about it...especially if it was the problem solving section you had trouble with on the PRACTICE test.

Since I can't discuss it in detail, for obvious reasons, but really...don't worry about it.  Thats all I can say.


----------



## FDO

If you have already written the CFAT twice you will have to have a waiver for the third write. This must be submitted to and approved by CFRG Hq in Borden. This can only be done if it's been more than 1 year since your last write and you have SIGNIFICANTLY up graded your education since the last time. IE graduated high school with marks at least in the high 70's, done a year of college or university and have marks that are above a B average. 

 Bear in mind that the practice test is much easier than the real thing so don't just go on the practice. Do whatever you can to prepare yourself for the test. Go to Chapters and get a book on Aptitude tests. They cost about $30. It's worth it when you think about what passing could mean.

Good luck


----------



## mariomike

There is also this:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/73666.0
http://www.testreadypro.com/CFAT.aspx
http://www.testreadypro.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=16


----------



## Macrinus88

Ya I have seen that before, I need a new job since I recently quit my temp job in a warehouse, Im gonna have to buy that. I didn't exactly fail the CFAT the first time, only qualified for a job I wasn't interested and failed the second time. If you ever have insomnia and get 3 hours sleep the night before and write it dehydrated, it really makes you dumber.


----------



## Macrinus88

So Assuming I scored high enough on the CFAT to qualify for the MPNCM trade, would I beable to do it and go through the MPAC? Or do they not allow you to if there's no jobs available for it or they don't need anymore MP's at the moment?


----------



## Nietz

So I wrote my CFAT a few months ago and at the time of writing was told that I had qualified for officers and all trades, I'm just wondering what this means in terms of scoring? All I was told is that I scored within the 97% percentile on language section. I was wondering if anybody could let me know what the cutoff score for officers qualification was and how many trades there are?


----------



## George Wallace

Nietz said:
			
		

> So I wrote my CFAT a few months ago and at the time of writing was told that I had qualified for officers and all trades, I'm just wondering what this means in terms of scoring? All I was told is that I scored within the 97% percentile on language section. I was wondering if anybody could let me know what the cutoff score for officers qualification was and how many trades there are?



Hate to break the news for you, but I would now downgrade the score that they gave you.  This question has been asked so many times before, that a simplest of the simplest SEARCH would have found the answer........SO!.......One more time:  THAT INFORMATION IS NOT GIVEN OUT.

I will downgrade you to a 48% percentile overall.


----------



## heavygunner

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I will downgrade you to a 48% percentile overall.



hahaha well that was nice to wake up to


----------



## Neolithium

Nietz said:
			
		

> how many trades there are?


Sure!
http://www.forces.ca/html/jobexplorer_en.aspx
I won't count them for you though.


----------



## Mr. St-Cyr

Nietz said:
			
		

> So I wrote my CFAT a few months ago and at the time of writing was told that I had qualified for officers and all trades, I'm just wondering what this means in terms of scoring? All I was told is that I scored within the 97% percentile on language section. I was wondering if anybody could let me know what the cutoff score for officers qualification was and how many trades there are?



Remember when you signed a form that stated you would not disclose any information regarding the nature of the CFAT?  Because I sure do, and that was four years ago.


----------



## bdave

Mr. St-Cyr said:
			
		

> Remember when you signed a form that stated you would not disclose any information regarding the nature of the CFAT?  Because I sure do, and that was four years ago.


I thought what they meant was you can not talk about the test, or what is on the test.
Does the percentage of success relate to the nature of the CFAT?
I wouldn't think so. Giving one's score does not give any indication to what is on the test.
Someone enlighten me.


----------



## Alea

bdave said:
			
		

> I thought what they meant was you can not talk about the test, or what is on the test.
> Does the percentage of success relate to the nature of the CFAT?
> I wouldn't think so. Giving one's score does not give any indication to what is on the test.
> Someone enlighten me.



I agree with bdave. This was also my understanding when I signed the form, to not reveal the content of the test.
From what I read, the original poster of this thread is asking for the percentage that is required to be qualified as an officer?

Maybe I got it all wrong.

Alea


----------



## MedTechStudent

bdave said:
			
		

> Someone enlighten me.



Me too, considering I wasn't even *told* my score and was under the impression they weren't even given out.  I just walked into an office and the RO said "You got the trade you wanted.".  

*Oh my God wait thats awesome advice!*

Nietz, don't fret about the bloody CFAT tests.  If you get the trade you applied for then thats it, its over.  If you don't get it then try again some other time or take another trade.  I think this is the *reason* they don't usually give out the scores cause then people walk around with either a silly sense of accomplishment, or fretting over their score. 



			
				Alea said:
			
		

> From what I read, the original poster of this thread is asking for the percentage that is required to be qualified as an officer?



If he scored high enough to get what he *APPLIED* for then he will be *TOLD*.  And thats all there is to it!  

Don't make me put the beating-a-dead-horse icon in here!


----------



## bdave

Alea said:
			
		

> From what I read, the original poster of this thread is asking for the percentage that is required to be qualified as an officer?



He is.
I did some research:



			
				http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFulltext/RTO/MP/RTO-MP-055///MP-055-30.pdf said:
			
		

> The Canadian Forces Aptitude Test is used as
> a screening measure to ensure officer candidates
> demonstrate a minimum level of cognitive ability. The
> test covers three domains: verbal ability, spatial ability,
> and problem solving ability. The applicant has the
> choice of writing either the English or French version
> of the test. Currently, the test is paper and pencil only
> and takes about an hour to administer; a computerized
> version has been developed but has not yet been
> implemented in the Recruiting Centres. *The minimum
> standard is the twenty-fifth percentile relative to the
> officer applicant normative sample*. Separate norms
> are maintained for the two languages.



I guess this means that you need at least a 75 percent success rate, overall, to be allowed to become an officer.
While it is probably relative to the mean score of the general population, as in top 25th percentile, I'm sure the score is standardized.

For the record, I was told my score. I did not ask.


----------



## Neolithium

I wasn't told my score, the Captain who was supervising the exam just let me know I scored high enough for all the trades I selected, which of course made me happy and I left it at that.


----------



## Mr. St-Cyr

They shouldn't tell you your score when you're enrolling, they merely tell you what you qualified for.


----------



## SupersonicMax

Mr. St-Cyr said:
			
		

> They shouldn't tell you your score when you're enrolling, they merely tell you what you qualified for.



A lot of thing happen when they shouldn't.


----------



## Steel Badger

Typically, we do not ( and should not )  give the overall CFAT score or score by sections to the Applicant. To be honest, knowing the score in and of itself is not that important. What is more important is the form we ( at my CFRC anyway) give to teh applicant listing all the trades they qualified for.

In response to questions about how someone did on the test, I will tell them that they were weak or strong in particular areas. 


SB


----------



## PMedMoe

The one and only time I did the present CFAT, I was not given a score but was told which percentile I was in for each section of the test.


----------



## HavocSteve

In November when I did mine, He gave me a sheet, pointed and said, you qualify for all of these trades. Which was basic Army trades (Cook and Steward and everything in between). Other then that, pulled me aside and said, "you took a lot of math in high school so why not try for combat engineer instead of armored soldier". So I put down combat soldier and hoped for the best lol. Now since all the trades are closed that I picked, a Mcpl gave me a call and said I should re-take the CFAT and score higher for tech trades and hopefully he said that it will make my application go faster only because my credit is absolute poop but I know if I get in, I will be debt free within a years service. I would have loved to known my score now since I have to re-take the test but all I can do now is just practice my math skills which have gone down the tubes since I've not gone to College and pretty much wasted my life away wondering what I really want to do with myself. But the CF is always on my mind even when I don't think I'm thinking about it so I have to do well on this CFAT. Hopefully the wavers go through and I'm allowed to re-take it.


----------



## George Wallace

On that note, be advised that your last CFAT score is the one that will count, not the best of whatever number of tests you take.  If you do worse on the next CFAT test, then that is the one that will count.  You could land up loosing out on the deal.


----------



## Steel Badger

Also remember:

With the CFAT you only get three chances to write it:

First Writing:  As part of your normal processing
                                           
First level Re-write:  ( 2nd writing)  Approved by the CO of your CFRC.  Requires 90 minimum wait period from date of first test. This period is included to allow you to study. Statistically, no study for test = tubing it.

Second Level re-Write: (3rd Writing) Requires approval of Commander CF recruiting group. Before he or she signs their name to it you must have:  a) Completed a ONE YEAR wait period from the date for the 1st re-write, and;
                              b) Provided proof of Academic upgrading at the university level for the areas in which you were weak.

(In some cases college level courses may suffice, but according to the PSO world theuni level is preferred)



SB


----------



## Peterson

I myself submitted the paperwork to apply to the CF last week, however I only found this great website the evening before I went to the CFRC. I'm not confident in my math abilities right now, and after doing a lot of reading and searching here, I think it may be best if I hold off on doing the CFAT, and do some studying instead. Would this be a bad idea? Or should I write the test first, see how I do, and risk not getting approved for the re-test? The answer should seem obvious, but I want to be honest with my recruiter about this. Would telling him I feel I may need a math refresher prior to taking the test be a bad thing? Or would they instead encourage me to write it just to see where I'm at? 

My high school transcript tells him I didn't do well in math. It doesn't mean I'm not capable of doing well in math. I never studied a day in my life, or did any of my homework, and I had a bad attitude in high school that I didn't need to learn how to add the alphabet. It didn't take me long out of high school to realize that I messed up, BAD (Graduated in 2001). But anyway, that's a long story that doesn't matter right now.

Basically I don't want to fail the first CFAT, and have that tarnish my record for the future. Instead, I think I'd rather just take some night school and show some initiative that I WANT to succeed. But, the paperwork is already being processed. Whats the best way to go about it all from this point? It does say at the bottom of the practice test that they gave me at the CFRC that if I didn't do well that I should consider some correspondence courses or night school. Which is exactly what I'm considering. 

Thank you for anything.


----------



## Alea

Hi,



			
				Peterson said:
			
		

> I myself submitted the paperwork to apply to the CF last week, however I only found this great website the evening before I went to the CFRC. I'm not confident in my math abilities right now, and after doing a lot of reading and searching here, I think it may be best if I hold off on doing the CFAT, and do some studying instead. Would this be a bad idea? Or should I write the test first, see how I do, and risk not getting approved for the re-test? The answer should seem obvious, but I want to be honest with my recruiter about this. Would telling him I feel I may need a math refresher prior to taking the test be a bad thing? Or would they instead encourage me to write it just to see where I'm at?



Starting to study now is the best thing to do. Don't wait until tomorrow.
You should also keep in mind that you don't know when the recruiting center will call you for CFAT. It could take some times as well as it could go fast. If you can study right now, this will not be a lost of time. 

That being said, if you don't feel ready when they do call you with a date, you are entitled to tell them that you need more time to study and they will give you another date or will tell you to call them back when you feel ready. 

Just in case you didn't have the time to see this link yet :
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-316117.html#msg316117

Good luck for your Math studies,
Alea


----------



## Pokiey

Hey Peterson,

First off, have you been given a date that you will write your CFAT?  

My advice would be to get down to your local library and spend a few hours looking at some GED study books.  When I started reviewing I was really worried, but I surprised myself with how much came back to me after reviewing things for a little while (and I was horrible at math in high school).  

Really you are your best judge on whether or not taking some classes to upgrade would be in your best interests, but I'd start reviewing the basics right away and see how it goes (start today...don't put it off).  You might surprise yourself!  There are also links to many sites that have practice aptitude tests and other tools you can use to prepare, the thread is stickied in the Recruiting forum titled "Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ".  

Good luck to you!!


----------



## HavocSteve

George Wallace said:
			
		

> On that note, be advised that your last CFAT score is the one that will count, not the best of whatever number of tests you take.  If you do worse on the next CFAT test, then that is the one that will count.  You could land up loosing out on the deal.



Yea, I'm a little wiry about that. I know I'll do better because I have a photo memory so I remember most of the CFAT (Which I guess is a good thing unless they change it? lol). Just sucks that I have to rewrite it. I should have tried harder and studied more then what I have since I only wanted basic army trades but now it's biting me in the butt and have to re-take it.

About what SB posted. Would my situation count as take #2? I don't want to re-take it but if it means me getting into the CF then so be it. LCIS doesn't look bad and my friend is waiting on PAT in Kingston doing the LCIS waiting for the POET to start. So he gave me some valuable info on what to expect ect. Just the MCpl advised me on re-taking it so that I could get in.


----------



## A-ryathker

Just a little word of encouragement and advise, I'm by no means a super brainy or smart techy kinda guy. I made the mistake of drooping out in high school (very young) and had to go and get my GED last yr in order to be able to enlist. As soon as I got my GED in the mail I right away submited my application to the CFRC and took my CFAT. I scored high enough for all trades and officers. I think this is mainly due to the fact that for about 3 months up to the CFAT i was studding hard during my nights and days off for my GED test and had alot of the stuff fresh in my head when I went for the CFAT. And scoring high on the CFAT was mentioned positively by recruiters numerous times over the phone and in person during the interview or when ever they looked at my file which goes to show it does really help you in the application stage. Also if your gonna be in the army for a long time and one day may want to change trades your CFAT score will limit what you can cant change trades to, even once it ( at least that's what I'm told). So all that to say is if I can score ok on the CFAT as a high school drop out whose spent most of his time since then working on farms and security, just by studying hard with GED books. I really think anyone can do it if you work hard and study for it. Good luck buddy


----------



## aesop081

A-ryathker said:
			
		

> of *drooping* out in high school



I have never heard of that before........




> may want to change trades your CFAT score will limit what you can cant change trades to,



If you did not qualify for the trade you are trying to change to when you originally wrote the CFAT, the PSO will make you write it again at that time. No big deal.

Quit worrying about "score"........it doesn't do you any good to know......it doesn't hold you back from anything in your chosen career. After you have qualified for the trade you want.........nobody cares what you scored.


----------



## Peterson

Pokiey said:
			
		

> Hey Peterson,
> 
> First off, have you been given a date that you will write your CFAT?



No, not yet. I got a 51% in Applied math in grade 10, and from there I went on to take consumer math in grade 11 and grade 12. I actually failed grade 11 consumer the first time, and had to take it again while in grade 12. All because I put pretty much zero effort into it. So, I'm not even sure if I'll get a call about writing the CFAT at all, actually.  Unless they give everybody a fair shot. With only so many spots to fill, I'm sure my application is closer to the bottom of the pile, or maybe hit the shredder after I left.  

I do not want to screw this up like I did high school. 

Thanks for the input guys!


----------



## Robbie4296

I highly doubt that they are going to shred it, I personally didnt actually finish grade 10, have a mixture of 9-10, but that was 14 years ago since then entered the Electrical trade, had to take a entry exam, studied-passed, went to secondary school 81% and had to write the "Trade" exam to move up to next level of my trade another 81%.
The Recruiter said they might waive the min because the secondary balances it out,that was 4 weeks ago and now the doing background checks, so hopefully that is a positive sign, thats alot of time spent just to tell me I dont meet the education requirements, but who knows its up to them,  but there all lots of more applicants with lots more education so it might take longer for me to get in. Keep positive!!!!!
The GED book is great, awesome study tool, try to take advantage of every possible resource for studying available, it can only improve your skills.


----------



## A-ryathker

"Quit worrying about "score"........it doesn't do you any good to know......it doesn't hold you back from anything in your chosen career. After you have qualified for the trade you want.........nobody cares what you scored."

Very true....but still doesnt hurt aiming high. In my case if i just got just enough for infantry (my number one choice) then infantry closed and it would have slowed me down alot if i had to take the extra time to book another CFAT in order to be able to try out for an open tech trade etc...etc..


----------



## Dimitrov

Hi, nobody knows me around here since this is my first post. I'm interested in signing up for the Reserve as an Infantry soldier.

I read through a dozen of important posts and I figured out that I'll need to prepare myself for the CFAT. I went on google, my best friend, and found a practice CFAT in a .pdf format.

The results I got (without any prior knowledge or practice about the test) were 5/5 in Verbal Skills, 4/5 in Spatial Ability and 7/10 in Problem Solving.

I'm curious about what this means, and what it would've meant if this was the real CFAT.
For a normal grunt, what woud I need to get on my CFAT? Do I need to pay that 150$ to an online training program or can I manage it on my own?

Basically, how important is the CFAT if you're just looking to be an infantry soldier.


----------



## ShawnHartwell

What I have heard is that for that trade you don't need a super high amount.

The CFAT is not something you should be wasting 150$ on. Just study up on your High School Math.


----------



## PegcityNavy

The CFAT is very important for the forces in determining your suitability, stacked is correct the practice exam is not a good example of what you will see on the test. I highly recommend you brush up on all your math skills as this is a huge part of the test. Do not take the test lightly, in such a highly competitive environment it could be the difference between getting the trade you want and being passed over.


----------



## PegcityNavy

When you are practicing try and set a short time frame for each question, on the test you will not have alot of time, so speed and accuracy is essential.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

If you don't pass the test, you don't get in the CF.  If you score lower than buddy next to you and you are both going for the same trade, you might not get an offer as soon as him, or at all.

Very broad question, but thats my answer for you.

So based on "if you fail, you can't get in the CF", I'd suggest it is pretty important.

Make sure for the math you can do fractions, and good luck.


----------



## Dimitrov

Thanks to everyone that replied to my question.
I'll prepare in order to pass my CFAT with the best score possible.


----------



## trampbike

Stacked said:
			
		

> If you got questions wrong on the practice PDF.. I highly recommend you doing ALOT of studying. Imo, that practice PDF is a very poor example of the difficulty and just lets you see the TYPE of questions. The real one is much harder.



Is the real one much harder because you were under more pressure and the clock was ticking? It's weird because I often read that the questions are harder, but just as often I read that it's the same difficulty level, just different questions...


----------



## George Wallace

Why are we discussing the CFAT in a brand new topic and wasting our time rehashing everything that people have asked so so many times before?  Use one of the most desired trait that the CF may be looking for in you; initiative.  READ what has already been written on this subject and any other questions you may have.  We would really hate to have to label you as a waste of bandwidth/rations/air.


----------



## Alea

trampbike said:
			
		

> Is the real one much harder because you were under more pressure and the clock was ticking? It's weird because I often read that the questions are harder, but just as often I read that it's the same difficulty level, just different questions...



Hi, 

Mr. Wallace is right! The CFAT question has been debated on the forum many times. 
Please find the links below.

In the mean time, here's what I have to say about this test: Yes, it is much harder than the pre-test provided. And yes, pressure and stress are a big factor on your passing this test or not. I failed it... by 2 points in the math part... pressured by time (did not have the time to answer to 6 questions) and STRESS (which I did not manage well at all) and I am known to be a fairly quiet person...

So in short, the key word here is: STUDY maths... and wish me luck for my second exam on July 27th 

Alea

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-316117.html#msg316117
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/18908/post-47506.html#msg47506


----------



## Tallgeese

Sorry to revive this old thread, but I heard on this site you only need about 18/60 to get into infantry.. is this true?


----------



## Michael OLeary

Tallgeese said:
			
		

> Sorry to revive this old thread, but I heard on this site you only need about 18/60 to get into infantry.. is this true?



Scores are not released. Scores are not given out. Knowing an arbitrary number won't help you write the CFAT.  Each section of the test is scored separately and will have a different effect on what trades you may be eligible for.


----------



## PMedMoe

To add to Mr. O'Leary's post, even if you did know what score you needed to get to be able to apply for a certain trade, you should still attempt to do your very best on the CFAT.  I don't think I'd want to hire someone who only strives to meet the minimum requirement.


----------



## FAT GORD

I just had a couple questions about selection for combat engineer. I understand that it is a highly competitive trade to get in to right now and i was wondering what kind of scores are needed on the CFAT to be able to apply? from what ive heard the scores are similar to the infantry. 
Thanks


----------



## Michael OLeary

Start with these two links:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/70626/post-972057.html#msg972057

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/96404/post-969246.html#msg969246 (adjust inputs as appropriate)

Welcome to army.ca.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Mattl86

Some recruiters will tell you how you did, but not what the cutoffs are I don't think.  I was told my score for example.  I took the test with 3 other guys and we were informed we all did well.  Then later the recruiter who had handled my file for much of the process told me in a meeting how I did.  That said, he didn't say what the average engineer score was or where the cutoff was or anything specific, so your score doesn't have a lot of perspective.

Don't worry though.  If you have your engineering degree you should do extremely well on the CFAT.  I'm not allowed to say any more about it, just go over the sample test they give you and you should be fine.


----------



## kartik

Agree with Matt. 

We were a group of people who wrote the CFAT. Of course cannot discuss, but engineers I have heard score well as its basic math and logic. The results are declared in some time right after the test. The file manager will call each individual personally and tell them that they have met the requirement for the selected trade. Like I was tld that I qualify to be an officer on engineering with Navy. I hope this helps. I have never heard marks or cut offs given out as you might have 3 different choices of trades and all these trade might have different cut offs. So they generalize and let you know if you qualify or if you do not


----------



## FAT GORD

thanks!


----------



## JMacNavy

I'd imagine different scores on the different aspects will determine what you are recommended for. A highly educated person may be in the top percentile for problem solving and linguistic but he may have done so poorly in visual that many of the "hands on" NCM trades certainly wouldn't be the right fit. I don't think it's worthwhile is worry about.


----------



## DominikEthier

Well after my CFAT during the interview, my interviewer gave me my score and said I did excellent. I'm pretty sure that there is such thing as failing the CFAT but I think it would be pretty hard. Besides it's an Aptitude test, not an achievement test, they want to see what your suited for if your a genius.


Asians and their cheat codes,
Just sayin' : ;D


----------



## canada94

My recruiter told me, (P-RES) that i would be given a Regiment interview, then after that, I would have another.. do my CFAT.. etc. I guess lots of people do everything differently, varies i guess.


----------



## linkinarmy

I did my CFAT today and it wasnt that bad. The spatial was the hardest for me. lol a lot of guessing. but for the math read the instructions they gave you and practice your fractions, decimals, percentages, and long division and you should be good to go. thats what i did and i passed. I aint no academic wizard. My high school average is 54.


----------



## Mudshuvel

To be honest, a CFAT is an alternate schoolcard. And Some things come naturally to some, not to others. I shouldn't say that a 17yr old who writes the CFAT and is eligible for all should drop high school at all, but it does help to give the chance to a 30-year old who wasn't the greatest in school but was eligible for all trades to 'academically' compete against someone who is 18, did great in school but had fewer choices within the CFAT for a trade.

The CFAT in addition to your high school diploma opens doors for you. The better the score, the more cards you get to play with when applying for a trade. This is from a CF recruiter I spoke with.


----------



## British Army

Here's my PXR based on the eCFAT I sat on Tuesday and a subsequent conversation with my recruiter. I won't discuss specifics as it's not allowed and defeats the object, however, hopefully this general overview and advice may help somebody......

1. Make sure you read everything here first:

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/theapplicationprocess-106#step3-3

2. The downloadable practice paper gives you an idea of what to expect in terms of the style of questions, however, I found the actual test significantly more difficult. The practice paper below was fairly useful and the more prep you do beforehand the better frame of mind you'll be in. I'm 39 and it's been a long time since I sat in the classroom; those of you straight out of high school may find it easier.

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/pract-test-examn-pract/gct2-ecg2-pratc-eng.htm

3. In my opinion, there's not a lot you can do to improve your chances on the first 2 sections of the test (Verbal Skills and Spatial Ability). You'll either have a good grasp of language or you won't - short of memorising a dictionary/thesaurus there's not much training you can do. Similarly, your brain will be able to formulate shapes and patterns or it won't - I believe that we're all hard-wired in this area, some will find this natural and some will find it a black art. That said, the factor which affected me the most on these sections was lack of time, I literally had seconds to spare at the end.

4. The final section (Problem Solving) is an area where you can help your cause beforehand. The math is no different than I did in school and provided you've remembered how to do fractions, percentages etc you should do fine. I personally found that there was plenty of time and I'd finished with 12 minutes left to spare. I used this time to go over my answers again to check for silly mistakes.

5. Timing, Timing, Timing……..don't get too wrapped up with any one question. If you're beginning to struggle then move on to the next. It's better to answer a few easier questions correctly, than waste ages on a difficult one which you subsequently get wrong. If you find you've got questions left and seconds to spare then make an educated guess; you've got a 1 in 4 chance of getting it right and you won't lose anything for getting it wrong.

6. Don't get disheartened, or start panicking, if you find you don't know the answers to all the questions, just do your best. For example, I'm enrolling as a *Vehicle Tech* for which the current pass mark (subject to change) is *35*. Presuming that this score is spread equally across the 3 sections then I would have needed roughly 9 out of 15 correct on Sections 1&2 and 18 out of 30 on Section 3. You can see that this is very achievable provided you answer as many as you can and don't spend too much time on any one question.

7. If you know your required pass mark don't just aim at that, aim to do your best and answer as many as you can. If you intend to make a career of the military then the 'just enough' approach may bite you in the *** later. For example, should you decide to change trade, or commission from the ranks, your CFAT score will be revisited and used in the decision making process.

8. Finally, If you want to know what score you got then just ask. What's the worse that can happen……? I asked my recruiter and he had no problem in telling me how I did and what I got wrong etc - needless to say, I was glad to hear I passed   

Good luck


----------



## Jaycan

Hi everyone,

I've been practicing for my CFAT exam in 3 weeks. I know many will mock me for spending a bit of money on TEST READY PRO, but I can take it. I'm writing to anyone who is stressing about this aptitude exam, and if you would like to put your mind at ease, I can send u the PDF from testreadypro.ca that I purchased to help you study.  READ BELOW

*Mod Edit: Anyone thinking of taking jcan up on his offer had better think twice about it. This site is NOT to be used to share copyrighted information. If we catch you then you will be banned.*


----------



## Nellyb

if any one is struggling with preparing for their test, email jason for that file it is VERY USEFUL....
ps. Thanks Jason ;D

Mod edit: Do not support this behaviour


----------



## Jaycan

This site (below) is awesome!!!  It is totally free, but you do have to go through some annoying sign up stages....do it, it is worth it.  I really like how it spits out your scores on each section, and after tallying up your overall score, you can compare which occupation you are most qualified for. Although it is American, I am certain there is little difference to the CFAT in terms of math difficulty. 

http://www.military.com/ASVAB


----------



## muskrat89

> I've been practicing for my CFAT exam in 3 weeks. I know many will mock me for spending a bit of money on TEST READY PRO, but I can take it. I'm writing to anyone who is stressing about this aptitude exam, and if you would like to put your mind at ease, I can send u the PDF from testreadypro.ca that I purchased to help you study. Just shoot me an email: jason.g



So that company sells those, you bought it and now will give it away? So if your livelihood depended on you selling a product or service, you would be OK with one person buying it and giving it away to everyone? Better check the Terms and Conditions in regards to what you bought, along with Copywrights, etc.




[Edit to remove email address in quote.]


----------



## Journeyman

Here is the relevant portion of the Test Ready Pro website:


> *Prohibited Actions*
> 
> To ensure the protection of other Test Ready Inc. users, you shall only use this website for lawful purposes. In your use of this website,  *you* acknowledge and agree that you are strictly prohibited from  taking the any or all of actions set out below (collectively, "Prohibited Actions"):
> 
> • *loading, transmitting, distributing, or storing material or information protected by copyright, * trade-mark, trade secret or other intellectual property right used without proper authorization



Yep, integrity.


----------



## Scott

Ding, ding, ding. Journeyman got it! And as DS I can also play fun police by pointing out the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines which you are _supposed_ to read and this little ditty contained in them:



> •You will not post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this site.



And before someone childishly points out to me that the person did not post the material to the site I'll point out that he made the offer and I won't have this site used as a medium for that. Go download it somewhere else.

jcan, this is your one and only nice warning about this. I've removed your personal email from your post but I can't do anything if someone PM's you. However, if you're found to be continuing this behaviour I'll just ban you. Perhaps Papa the lawyer can help you understand why we want no part in this sort of guff. 

Scott
Army.ca Staff


----------



## Dlew

Just took the CFAT for infantry officer. I passed but 3 out of the 6 failed. So don't underestimate it, you only got 2 tries at it.


----------



## British Army

Dlew said:
			
		

> Just took the CFAT for infantry officer. I passed but 3 out of the 6 failed. So don't underestimate it, you only got 2 tries at it.



Do you know what the pass mark was Dlew?


----------



## Nfld Sapper

British Army said:
			
		

> Do you know what the pass mark was Dlew?



CFAT marks are not given out......


----------



## George Wallace

British Army said:
			
		

> Do you know what the pass mark was Dlew?



There is no "pass mark"; or to be more accurate, there is no "pass mark" published.  It is an Aptitude Test for which your mark will dictate which Trade options may be open to you.  The higher your marks, the more options you will have of Trades to choose.  The lower your marks, the fewer Trades will be open to you.


----------



## British Army

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> CFAT marks are not given out......





			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> There is no "pass mark"; or to be more accurate, there is no "pass mark" published.  It is an Aptitude Test for which your mark will dictate which Trade options may be open to you.  The higher your marks, the more options you will have of Trades to choose.  The lower your marks, the fewer Trades will be open to you.



Just to clarify, I appreciate that 'pass marks' aren't published. When I took the eCFAT for Veh Tech I asked my recruiter what I needed to score and he told me (35/60 at the time). I was just interested what was needed for Inf Off and whether Dlew knew or not?


----------



## sky777

British Army said:
			
		

> Just to clarify, I appreciate that 'pass marks' aren't published. When I took the eCFAT for Veh Tech I asked my recruiter what I needed to score and he told me (35/60 at the time). I was just interested what was needed for Inf Off and whether Dlew knew or not?


How this information can help you or anybody?
Iit is clearly- you apply for trades and after that you must do eCFAT.
If you passed - you will be informed by recruiter. It's all. What you need else?To compare?
I just passed test a few weeks ago. After the test  we received information who passed test .Recruiter told us that we can continue our recruiting process according our trades of choice.
I don't care about scores.


----------



## British Army

sky777 said:
			
		

> How this information can help you or anybody?



It's quite possible that I'll want to CFR one day. If and when that day comes I'll have to sit the CFAT again. It's worth knowing whether I have a chance of meeting the required score to be an Officer.



			
				sky777 said:
			
		

> Iit is clearly- you apply for trades and after that you must do eCFAT.
> If you passed - you will be informed by recruiter. It's all. What you need else?To compare?



Thanks for the reminder, but I hadn't forgotten.



			
				sky777 said:
			
		

> I just passed test a few weeks ago. After the test  we received information who passed test .Recruiter told us that we can continue our recruiting process according our trades of choice.



Good for you.



			
				sky777 said:
			
		

> I don't care about scores.



So it seems.

I find that time spent on reconnaissance is seldom wasted.


----------



## George Wallace

British Army said:
			
		

> I find that time spent on reconnaissance is seldom wasted.



So true.......Unless the recce keeps on coming up with the same facts.  Then it is a waste of time and effort.  If the answer from the CFRC is that their Recruiting Policy states CFAT scores are not released, then to constantly ask for them is damn foolishness.


----------



## sky777

British Army said:
			
		

> It's quite possible that I'll want to CFR one day. If and when that day comes I'll have to sit the CFAT again. It's worth knowing whether I have a chance of meeting the required score to be an Officer.


Nobody can tell you about required score to be an Officer.


----------



## British Army

George Wallace said:
			
		

> So true.......Unless the recce keeps on coming up with the same facts.  Then it is a waste of time and effort.  If the answer from the CFRC is that their Recruiting Policy states CFAT scores are not released, then to constantly ask for them is damn foolishness.



I take your point George. I think 'constantly asking for them' is explanatory 'mission creep' to say the least, but I'll call it a day as it's clear that I'm the only recruit in this forum who knows what his pass mark was.



			
				sky777 said:
			
		

> Nobody can tell you about required score to be an Officer.



That's quite obviously not true.


----------



## sky777

British Army said:
			
		

> That's quite obviously not true.


 If it would be so easy you already had got this information.


----------



## Scott

Do you *have* to get the last word in?

Drop it.

Staff


----------



## Normanz1

I know you have to do Aptitude test but will there be a separate test that is only math like fractions, algebra,geometry and etc...

Im sorry if this topic as been made before but i couldnt find anything about it in the thread thats locked.


----------



## Terry1026

Giving you an easy answer but next time I suggest researching the actual Canadian Forces website before you ask a simple questions like this one. Spending 5 Minutes on the Forces website can change your life. 

1.Verbal Skills (15 questions, maximum time allowed for completion: 5 minutes)
2.Spatial Ability (15 questions, maximum time allowed for completion: 10 minutes)
3.Problem Solving (30 questions, maximum time allowed for completion: 30 minutes)

Good Luck


----------



## kmcneil

Normanz1 said:
			
		

> I know you have to do Aptitude test but will there be a separate test that is only math like fractions, algebra,geometry and etc...
> 
> Im sorry if this topic as been made before but i couldnt find anything about it in the thread thats locked.



The aptitude test is made up of three sections, one of which is math. Math is not on a separate test, just a separate section of the one test. 

For more information, you can go to: http://www.forces.ca/en/page/theapplicationprocess-106#step3-3


----------



## G.McDonnell

hey guys, I'm sitting in the RC with a HUGE smile on my face right now awaiting my medical. After the test we were waiting in the lobby and a staff member came out with two names on a piece of paper out of the 10 of us. My name was one of them and we were quickly rushed off to another room to be told how exceptional our marks were on the test.. Its unbelievable how releiving that can feel. Has anyone else experienced this were you are moved into the next room?  ;D


----------



## Biohazardxj

LOL.  Congrats.  When I did mine back in 84 it was the other way around.  The ones ushered away were never seen again................


----------



## niceasdrhuxtable

SGT-RMSCLK said:
			
		

> LOL.  Congrats.  When I did mine back in 84 it was the other way around.  The ones ushered away were never seen again................



I can still remember when I did mine that there were 12 of us awaiting the results. They started calling people 1 by 1 and after about an hour there were only 3 of us still waiting. The recruiter came out and congratulated us because we were the only ones who passed. I was certain I failed and was racking my brain trying to figure out where I went wrong. I guess they were having a bit of fun...


----------



## G.McDonnell

They really know how to build suspense... So ive got my Interview booked.. whats the process after that? do I get a call for a job availability?


----------



## Gravja

Stacked said:
			
		

> Well, you could be waiting a while. I've been waiting over 8 months now since being merit listed (CFAT, Medical, Interview complete) You will be waiting until at least April.
> 
> As for my CFAT, we were all called in one by one, I was the last person to be called. Everyone but one person just before me had failed, (We were all pretty chatty, and on the way out they told us if they passed or failed). I was pretty nervous at this point.. I went in, they told me I did well and was eligible for all the trades I had selected. They then on the spot asked me if I wanted to wait an hour because they wanted to try and get me my medical. So I sat patiently for an hour for the med. tech to return... They asked her if she would mind staying late that day to complete it.. And she did! So it was a great day. I had a lot of fun actually.



My experience was identical.  Was a huge relief to know that I qualified for all trades.

Merit listed in June '10...... April cant come soon enough  :crybaby:


----------



## ambush

May I ask are you guys both signed for reg or res?


----------



## Gravja

ambush said:
			
		

> May I ask are you guys both signed for reg or res?



Regular Force .. Merit listed  for Vehicle Tech / Weapons Tech / Construction Tech


----------



## Pusser

Hmm.  Nobody ever did tell me my results.  Do you suppose my last 25 years in the CF have all been under false pretenses? ;D


----------



## PMedMoe

I also qualified for all trades (officer and NCM) when I did my CFAT.  No one moved me to a "special" room and I was _still_ able to use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation.      That was over 25 years ago......oh, and we had a different CFAT then.   :nod:


----------



## G.McDonnell

Reg Force, applied as a NET C ( Which is apparently being combined with all of them now.) got an advancement on my interview because the trade is in such high demand.


----------



## Container

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I also qualified for all trades (officer and NCM) when I did my CFAT.  No one moved me to a "special" room and I was _still_ able to use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation.      That was over 25 years ago......oh, and we had a different CFAT then.   :nod:



You had to write it while running up hill in no shoes! ;D


----------



## Nfld Sapper

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I also qualified for all trades (officer and NCM) when I did my CFAT.  No one moved me to a "special" room and I was _still_ able to use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation.      That was over 25 years ago......oh, and we had a different CFAT then.   :nod:



Stone tablet and chisel.......

 ;D


----------



## PMedMoe

All that and more!   :nod:


----------



## denimboy

G.McDonnell said:
			
		

> hey guys, I'm sitting in the RC with a HUGE smile on my face right now awaiting my medical. After the test we were waiting in the lobby and a staff member came out with two names on a piece of paper out of the 10 of us. My name was one of them and we were quickly rushed off to another room to be told how exceptional our marks were on the test.. Its unbelievable how releiving that can feel. Has anyone else experienced this were you are moved into the next room?  ;D



Would you mind if I ask how you prepared for the test? 

Edit: Congrats!


----------



## kmcneil

There was five of us when I did the test. I was forth to get called into the office. The three before me left rather quickly and never told us remaining how they did so I'm unsure about them. I was told I did rather well on it and qualified for all my trades. He asked me if I wanted to get my medical and interview done right then and I was the only one offered to have it done immediately after. He told me to sit in the lobby and wait for the medical. The fifth guy that went in left just as quickly as the others. So, it left me feeling extremely lucky!

So, I got all three done on the same day, which seems like quite a rarity compared to others going through the process.


----------



## G.McDonnell

Denimboy: to prepare I made sure I completley understood every question and how to do it that are provided on the example CFAT. After that I searched all over tis site for advice, found some info on websites that review math 10, I looked over my sisters police exam guide and did IQ tests. Finally I did simple math in a GED book I have.... Some may say I over-prepared, but the results speak for themselves. The people in the room before the exam that were discussing "oh how do you do that question with 4/5 sailors? I just guessed it" were the people who failed. And work on being efficient. Time management is imparitive, make sure you answer EVERY question before time runs out.. Even if you gotta guess.
Hope this helps?


----------



## denimboy

G.McDonnell said:
			
		

> Denimboy: to prepare I made sure I completley understood every question and how to do it that are provided on the example CFAT. After that I searched all over tis site for advice, found some info on websites that review math 10, I looked over my sisters police exam guide and did IQ tests. Finally I did simple math in a GED book I have.... Some may say I over-prepared, but the results speak for themselves. The people in the room before the exam that were discussing "oh how do you do that question with 4/5 sailors? I just guessed it" were the people who failed. And work on being efficient. Time management is imparitive, make sure you answer EVERY question before time runs out.. Even if you gotta guess.
> Hope this helps?



Yes! Thanks you!


----------



## Journeyman

G.McDonnell said:
			
		

> .....I *searched* all over this site for advice.....


MilPoints enroute!


----------



## Deleted member 41807

denimboy said:
			
		

> Would you mind if I ask how you prepared for the test?
> 
> Edit: Congrats!



Good day,

PublicServicePrep Comprehensive guide to Canadian Military, Border Services, Corrections and Security exams is what I used to study for the CFAT, I was able to touch up on everything needed to pass the CFAT, its a good investment. 

regards

Edit: Congrats G.McDonnell


----------



## denimboy

Sleath said:
			
		

> Good day,
> 
> PublicServicePrep Comprehensive guide to Canadian Military, Border Services, Corrections and Security exams is what I used to study for the CFAT, I was able to touch up on everything needed to pass the CFAT, its a good investment.
> 
> regards
> 
> Edit: Congrats G.McDonnell



Thanks for the input.
The book is not available in local stores around here. But there is an eBook version online. 
http://publicserviceprep.com/Public/tour1.aspx

I can't access the register page at work but I'll sure have a look later.


----------



## trampbike

G.McDonnell said:
			
		

> Has anyone else experienced this were you are moved into the next room?  ;D



I had 59/60 and was not moved into another room to be told I did well.


----------



## Scott

trampbike said:
			
		

> I had 59/60 and was not moved into another room to be told I did well.



Well was that 59/60 right or 59/60 wrong?  ;D

I am glad that folks are doing well on the CFAT. But don't hurt yourself with pats on the back just yet - get through the rest of the process and stay in shape for BMQ even though you might have to wait a while...don't slack off. Then go and do the courses to the best of your ability and be a good buddy. Being a good buddy is far more noticeable than big test scores, and no one cares about your scores once you're past the recruiting stage.

Not trying to have a go at you guys, I am glad you're happy. Just don't get too wound up with it, hmmkay?


----------



## Maritimegal

Just call the recruiting centre and they will tell you the minimum officer score. I called today and was told as soon as I asked the question. I won't post it here for fear of being flamed   I just tried a quick google on the internet. Try that and you will be linked to military research studies that discuss the general officer cut off.


----------



## aesop081

Maritimegal said:
			
		

> Just call the recruiting centre and they will tell you the minimum officer score.



You say that like knowing the minimum score is actualy useful information.

It is not.


----------



## Maritimegal

I never said it was useful. Question asked was can you know the minimum score and yes you can.  I always hesitate to post on this forum because the minute you do your attacked.


----------



## Scott

Grow up. You were not attacked. You were not flamed. Someone disagreed with you is all. Spare us the drama.

Staff


----------



## Maritimegal

Scott: Please see my PM


----------



## Scott

Saw that PM. You were NOT attacked here. No matter how much crying you do it's simply not an attack. CDN Aviator disagreed with you and pointed out why - that IS NOT an attack.

You said:


			
				Maritimegal said:
			
		

> Just call the recruiting centre and they will tell you the minimum officer score. I called today and was told as soon as I asked the question. I won't post it here for fear of being flamed   I just tried a quick google on the internet. Try that and you will be linked to military research studies that discuss the general officer cut off.



and the response was:


			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You say that like knowing the minimum score is actualy useful information.
> 
> It is not.



This response from a serving member of the CF. Someone who has been through the recruiting system and who ha also helped others through the system. The simple answer is that the CFAT scores do not matter to you - write the bloody test to the best of your ability and move along. I said it in another thread: once you're beyond the precious CFAT it does not matter - focus on being fit, focus on being a good buddy, focus on getting your tasks done, focus on the learning. All of this time and energy put into test scores is really moot. I believe that this is what CDN Aviator was trying to sum up. Trying to sum it up to be helpful to others.

And you think it was an attack?

Listen, just because someone disagrees with you and points out why does not constitute an attack. Get over yourself.

Yeah, I got your PM. You don't have to post in the thread that you sent one so that others will see that you did not back down :


----------



## OkanaganHeat

One thing that many people seem to be forgetting here is that the key word in CFAT is Aptitude. This a natural talent that the applicants possess. The recruiters want to find what your communication, troubleshooting and spatial perception skills are to find a trade that will best suit your natural abilities.

It is very possible that some trades would require different levels for the scores in the different categories. For example, you may require high communication and troubleshooting marks but not spatial perception for one trade and lower communication but higher spatial perception for another. Although an overall score may be used for certain aspects it really should only be seen as a means that the recruiters have to determine if you will be able to succeed in the trade.

As many have said, once you have passed the recruiting stage your results are not required unless you happen to want to remuster at some later point. The test is not meant to intimidate you but rather to help you find the career that will best suit your natural talents that are determined by your results.

Personally, I believe that if you want to do better on the test work on the core areas by: reading and writing more for the communications portion, doing more math for the troubleshooting portion and going through puzzles and spatial games for the spatial perception portion. Every person will have different strengths and weaknesses and the test is used as an initial gauge to determine where yours are.

By learning how to pass the test, that is all you will do and may find that the aptitudes that you require for your trade are not innate and will make thriving in the trade more difficult for you. When I prepared for the test, I ran through the sample questions to have a feel for what to expect, rested well and completed the test.

If you do not get the trade that you desired it is only to help you succeed and not to punish you. The score to shoot for is your best through your natural abilities in the areas tested to be able to succeed in the trade that best suits you.


----------



## WonderGirl

Just practice, practice, practice and be prepared for the test.  Then you will ace it and get the dream job you are hoping for LOL ;D

I did the practice test:  http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf

I Got 5 wrong in the math section so now i go here:  http://www.khanacademy.org/

and every day I practice grade 10 math fractions, long division,  percentages etc.

I also paid  for more practice of the CFAT here:  http://www.publicserviceprep.com/public/full_pkg_canadianforces.aspx


----------



## kmcneil

Stacked said:
			
		

> What trades did you apply for kmcneil? I'm assuming it's Navy based on your picture



1. Marine Engineering Mechanic
2. Sonar Op.
3. Steward


----------



## NavyShooter

OkanaganHeat said:
			
		

> *One thing that many people seem to be forgetting here is that the key word in CFAT is Aptitude. This a natural talent that the applicants possess. The recruiters want to find what your communication, troubleshooting and spatial perception skills are to find a trade that will best suit your natural abilities.*



THIS.

The test is to check your APTITUDE levels.

"aptitude ( ) n. An inherent ability, as for learning; a talent:"

The CFAT is decidedly NOT a knowledge test.  Knowledge tests are to see what you know.

Aptitude tests are used to see what you are capable of doing.

Example.  You, as a machinist might know how to safely operate a CNC multi-axis mill.  However, you may have no sweet clue how to program the G-code that runs it, defining the tool path, speed of advance, cutting depth, etc.

However, you may have a highly developed understanding of how the machinery....you'd probably know how to oil, repair and maintain the tool.  

The guy who writes the G-code may never have even seen the Mill that you're working on.  He probably doesn't know the day-to day maintenance requirements for it.

Extend that to your own aptitudes....that programmer probably takes his car in every 3 months to get the oil-change done....you know how to change the oil on your mill, so by extension, a car isn't such a scarily different piece of equipment, you probably do it on your own.  You have mechanical aptitude.  

Sort of make sense?

That programmer probably knows HOW the oil is changed on his car....but can he do it?  Can he line up the oil filter properly?  

The CFAT measures for APTITUDE, not knowledge.  

NS


----------



## Timmason09

I failed my CFAT 4 months ago, and I am retaking it in a couple of days, but I'm not sure what I did wrong the last time, I felt I did pretty good, but after I did the test, the guy just said I failed, and told me to go home.

That was when i was joining Infantry, I've talked to the recruiter for Artillery, and that's what I'm going to be doing.

Just curious if the CFAT is any different, or if you need a higher score to get in, then you do Infantry.

Also, I know this has been asked a million times, but if I don't know what I did wrong on the test the last time, what should I do to prepare for the retest?


----------



## kincanucks

The score is the same for Artillery as it is for Infantry.  _Also, I know this has been asked a million times_ Then why don't you read the extensive CFAT tread?  If all the recruiter told you is that you failed then I would hazard a guess you did very bad and didn't qualify for any trade.  So you need to work on everything. Look at the CFAT thread.


----------



## dev_tech

I wasn't even aware you COULD fail the CFAT.  Sounds like you might want to go online and brush up on your math and English.  The spatial stuff is pretty hard to study for.


----------



## Sigil

If you've already taken the test...and bothered to read the preparation info your CFRC should have given you...then you should have an idea of what to study. Odd that the recruiter didn't go over your results and give you some suggestions on what to improve, but maybe kincanucks has the right of it and you need to work on everything. What is your education level? Do you feel confident to read, write, and do math at at least the grade 10 level?


----------



## Timmason09

I felt like I did pretty good on it, but the guy that told me I failed was a complete asshole, he didn't tell me what i got, or what I qualified for or anything..

I just started going to Math.com, and I got a math tutor, and in an english class this semester, hopefully when I take it in few days, I will do a lot better.


But if I pass it, what comes next? Physical test? Medical? etc.


----------



## PMedMoe

dev_tech said:
			
		

> I wasn't even aware you COULD fail the CFAT.



Not a fail as such but one can score low enough not to be eligible for the chosen trade(s) (or any trade, I guess).



			
				Timmason09 said:
			
		

> But if I pass it, what comes next? Physical test? Medical? etc.



That's all on here.  Search in the recruiting threads.


----------



## Sigil

You should read through the threads that talk about the CFAT as others have suggested, but another thing to consider is don't rewrite the CFAT and "hope" you do better. You need to be reasonably sure you will do better or you may be in a bad situation. You can't simply keep writing and rewriting the CFAT hoping one of the times you'll qualify for your chosen trade. If you don't pass on your next attempt, I believe you will need special permission and/or proof of significant academic upgrading in order to write it again.

In short, study your *** off and take the CFAT only when you are confident it will be your best effort.


----------



## dev_tech

Sigil offers good advice.  There's a waiting period to rewrite the CFAT.  If you get a poor score again, that's bad news.  You're better off holding off a few extra months to study, rather than getting yourself excluded from the forces indefinitely.  Good luck.  Just brush up on English, long division and multiplying and dividing fractions and you'll do fine.  If the forces are where you really want to be, the wait and effort are well worth it.


----------



## dev_tech

Just my 2c.  Does it make any difference at all what the cut off scores are?  You either do well enough or you don't.  It's not like knowing the required scores will make you any smarter.


----------



## Scott

dev_tech said:
			
		

> Just my 2c.  Does it make any difference at all what the cut off scores are?  You either do well enough or you don't.  It's not like knowing the required scores will make you any smarter.



Ding, ding, ding, ding.

Milpoints on the way.


----------



## aesop081

dev_tech said:
			
		

> Just my 2c.  Does it make any difference at all what the cut off scores are?  You either do well enough or you don't.  It's not like knowing the required scores will make you any smarter.



Please stop attacking people with your logic.

[/sarcasm]


----------



## PrettyMaggie63

I too had a similar experience. After completing the CFAT we all sat in a room, and each person was called out 1 by 1. Finally, after only 3 of us were left, we were called into another room and told to sit where we found the stack of papers with our names on them. We were told the top sheet was our's to keep, then she looked at me and stated "except for you". My heart almost jumped right out of my chest. Then she told me I might want to frame mine as I had done exceptionally well. Then I could start breathing again. I am 47 years old and have been out of school for 30 years now. I didn't expect to do so well and honestly I didn't think I did. I prepared by doing online aptitude tests, and spent many hours at the center for employment and learning doing GED tests. I guess this paid off. I was given a conditional job offer for AC Op, which was my second choice and now am waiting for a date for my medical and interview.


----------



## BrandonM

Actually... When I went for my eCFAT, I was the only one taking it... Where I live, the military isn't really viewed as anything good. From the people I've talked to, it seems 9/10 people here think the military is pure bullshit, stupid, cowardly, pointless and an instant "you've thrown your life away". While I was sitting in the office of the recruiting centre for my eCFAT (in the mall, the entire from is just a big window) people were going by, staring at me. A 17 year old kid joining the military... I got a few teenagers go by too, this one group actually pointed and laughed at me then worded out what seemed to be "loser". Gatta love the support we get! Though on the bright side, I did get a few proud smiles here and there, but nothing compared to the negative feedback...

Anyways... Back on topic (I seemed to have really went off there); I took my eCFAT alone and I barely passed anything apart from the mathematical questions. I had only had I think it was 3 or 4 of the questions wrong on that section.. But the rest I somehow tanked and if I'd have gotten 2-3 wrong on the other sections I'd have failed those parts for all trades. Somehow I've failed my grade 11 math last semester and barely passed grade 9 and 10 (with the notes in the 55% range) yet passed the rest of my classes that pertained to the other sections with 75%+... Though, I did panic on the test, as I could see the timer on the screen ticking down slowly... 
After I was done my test, I was taken into the Captains office and he explained that there were no infantry reserves nearby, so I had to choose arty... Was a great day. I actually love going down to the office whenever I need to and talking to the Captain casually, he's a real helpful guy.

The medical though, that was damn brutal.


----------



## gilchrist1

Would someone need to score high on the CFAT for intel op?. Im going to do my CFAT in a couple of days and was just wondering if anyone knew.


----------



## Occam

gilchrist1 said:
			
		

> Would someone need to score high on the CFAT for intel op?. Im going to do my CFAT in a couple of days and was just wondering if anyone knew.



Sorry, they're only recruiting those who know the difference between Int and Intel.   >


----------



## JMesh

gilchrist1 said:
			
		

> Would someone need to score high on the CFAT for intel op?. Im going to do my CFAT in a couple of days and was just wondering if anyone knew.



From another (now locked) thread you started

[quote author=gilchrist1]i applied in feb did my CFAT  a week later and was told that i passed and one of the ones i qualified for was intel op[/quote]

Please figure out which story is true before posting again. People around here don't appreciate being deceived.

Finally, as Occam said, Int not Intel


----------



## BlackSheep

Hey guys,

I have a buddy who wrote his aptitude test today and he didn't do as well as he thought he would. He wants to be a Hull Tech and missed the opportunity by one math point. He's quite upset considering he was really looking forward to this and is mechanically inclined. I was wondering what way he should go about rewriting the test. Should he go back to high school to get his grade 10 academic math, though he has grade 12 applied math and physics. He's 20 so him going into a grade 10 class would be a little hard with the maturity gap. Should he spend the money to go to college just so he could can refresh his math? That's a lot of money if you ask me. I found this site https://testreadypro.com/courseshop/products/114.html 
but I don't know how trust worthy that is and my understanding is you can only write the CFAT twice. Through high school he took tech classes at a tech school and all too. I was under the impression that if you are two points off you can be exempt. Anything that could guide me in the right direction to help out my friend would be great. I am also in the CF already myself, NavRes right now waiting on a transfer to RegForce so it doesn't need to be dumbed down. 

Thankyou


----------



## infantryian

I imagine that getting his grade 10 math wouldn't be a bad idea for a CFAT rewrite. As for the stigma, most school boards do offer a remedial high school for adults who dropped out then decided they would like to finish. Perhaps contacting the local school board might be the best bet to finding a good place to attend. If there aren't any options available, I know I would rather pay to take a couple remedial classes rather than going back to high school. 
     As for the CFAT, I have heard from two high ranking members of the CFRC in my city that the CFAT is only to be written twice, although the Captain in charge did mention that exceptions are sometimes made for people who demonstrate a significant academic improvement. I read that to mean that either achieving a high school diploma or GED when one did not exist before, or earning a post secondary diploma/degree of some kind. It is also quite possible that it could mean that an upgrade in maths (assuming that was the deficient area) would be enough. I did not ask too much detail because it was not an issue for me.


----------



## Mudshuvel

Welcome to the forums. Depending on what province you are in, there are options through most community colleges for online schooling and I'm pretty sure that 10 or 11 math is part of it. Through nbcc I was able to get the online course material for free but to actually do the full course with credit it was a hundred or so. So whether it's you or him or whoever, that is one option. But normally I'd a rewrite is needed there was more than one point of opportunity than math that is forcing it. Of course, that is my impression of it. Before rewriting I would strongly suggest you look into improving math skills to ensure you don't have to wait the year or so to rewrite again.


----------



## DirtyDog

cda84 said:
			
		

> Agreed. Mentioning that "it is not that hard at all"..serves no purpose but to boost your self esteem and/or lower that of the applicant who was unsuccessful.


Sure, it might be discouraging to those that failed, I can understand that.  When I went through the recruiting process and was told to not worry, it isn't that hard, and it's a hard test to "study" for anyway I took that advice to heart and went into the test confident and unworried.  I'm a high school drop out who had like a 55% average for the classes I managed to make it to.  I also didn't pick up a text book or really even use any acedemic skills (writing, math) for the 10+ years in between high school and the military.  Going into the test, assured that it was "easy", I had very little stress, finished up in good time and qualified for every trade.  Worked for me.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Rating the CFAT as "easy" or "hard" is a circular assessment. It's "easy" for those who have the aptitudes we are looking for, and it's "hard" for those who do not. In neither case is it a direct assessment of general intelligence, common sense or overall life potential. It's just a measure of whether the applicant meets our generic expectations for employment in the CF. The difficulty occurs when someone who has spent months or years convincing _themselves_ they belong in the military finds out through the CFAT that perhaps they don't.


----------



## Mudshuvel

The CFAT is there to see where you personally stand. Its to see how suitable you are for X trade. Spatial Orientation (Folded paper diagrams etc) can not be taught, either you understand it, or you don't. Its not there to call anyone stupid, its there to make sure you are able to stand on your own feet in a trade.

Hypothetically, if you had two applicants for one position as a math teacher do a small test, one scores higher in math and the other in french but the french wiz seems cooler, think of the mistake you would have made if you hadn't had them take the test. Its there to make sure the right people go in the right areas. I know that analogy was horrible, but even those who write the CFAT and are approved to be a LCIS Tech sometimes don't stick with the trades they were approved for. 

They still allow rewrites (from what I read) while you're in the Forces.


----------



## SOES_vet

Mudshuvel said:
			
		

> Spatial Orientation (Folded paper diagrams etc) can not be taught, either you understand it, or you don't.



There is some truth to this because in theory, an aptitude test will yield identical results for any large group of people. AKA, for a large number of people taking the test, the results will yield a bell curve via law of large numbers. That said, an aptitude test is just a test. All tests have a methodology behind how they were written and have a reasoning behind each type or style of question. It is possible to study for an IQ test or an aptitude test. A quick google search will yield plenty of test preparation materials. Even for a spacial orientation style of test, patterns behaviours , types and styles of questions can be practiced. There is only so much they can come up with or throw at people.

As an example of test prep. material (first google hit I got)

http://www.psychometric-success.com/aptitude-tests/spatial-ability-tests.htm

Disclaimer 1: I am not affiliated with the above website or any of the companies entities! 

Disclaimer 2: I am not advocating that the CFAT is a bad test or that people have to "beat the system." I honestly believe that in some instances, aptitude tests are unfair because they make the assumption that everyone is educated, brought up, and are exposed to the exact same environmental factors. This is why people from different countries, even close cultural ones, always do more poorly when presented with a foreign aptitude test. In reality, their mental abilities, as a sample, are identical.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all?content=10.1080/13803390490510824   <---- reference for those that care

For some of you that are having trouble with the CFAT, in my opinion, it may not be that you are not well suited but that you are not yet well prepared enough. In which case, I think some prep may be appropriate. 

One caveat: studies have shown that even the most intense preparation only results in increases, on IQ tests, of 10-25 points. Probably not enough to get everyone into Mensa, but may be a good sign for those that are able people but are having trouble passing the CFAT.


----------



## Chirch

How many time can you take the CFAT?


----------



## aesop081

Chirch said:
			
		

> How many time can you take the CFAT?



Only once. If it is unsuccessful, you will be taged and prohibited from aproaching within 200 meters of a CFRC.


----------



## Occam

It's our tag and release program, you see.   ;D


----------



## George Wallace

Se7eN said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Well I feel like a right moron right now. I just failed my CFAT.



Deja vu.


Perhaps you are wondering how many times this question has been asked.  Follow the Quote and find out.


----------



## futuresoldier101

how hard is the cfat i'm going to be taking it soon, i'm gonna try to get into infantry ,


----------



## Michael OLeary

futuresoldier101 said:
			
		

> how hard is the cfat i'm going to be taking it soon, i'm gonna try to get into infantry ,



That is an unanswerable question.   Some people find it hard, some people find it easy.


----------



## Hammer Sandwich

futuresoldier101 said:
			
		

> how hard is the cfat i'm going to be taking it soon, i'm gonna try to get into infantry ,



It's not much more difficult than using proper capitalization, and puntuc......oh.


----------



## futuresoldier101

I haven't took the test yet but i'm just wondering how long it takes after you pass to get in the infantry, also if i don't pass how long until i can take the test again?


----------



## Michael OLeary

No-one can tell you how long it will take - it is different for each applicant and there IS NO GUIDELINE.  _(Searching would have found that answer posted many times.)_

You can take the CFAT again as soon as the CFRC lets you.  BUT, keep in mind it takes a serious change in educational upgrading to try and get a third chance.  If you fail it once, you'd better be sure you'll pass it on the second try, because there may not be a third chance. _(This also has been discussed a number of times.)_


----------



## updatelee

I applied in April and was in Battalion in December. I didnt sit on PAT (person awaiting training) very long, many people wait months there. Some people are junk, they wait years there. I know of people on PAT after 2 years.

the big green machine runs on its own schedule, it'll pick you up for a ride when its ready todo so.


----------



## tanman89

To further answer this after writting the test the first time there is a 90 day waiting period before you can rewrite it the second time.

NOTE: If you score lower on the second test, it doesnt matter that is score so take the time prepare and rock it the first time.

Also after the second time according to some of recruiters that ive been in communication with say they've NEVER seen a third test issued so its very very difficult to get.

I hope this has helped and goodluck on your test.

John


----------



## George Wallace

tanman89 said:
			
		

> To further answer this after writting the test the first time there is a 90 day waiting period before you can rewrite it the second time.
> 
> NOTE: If you score lower on the second test, it doesnt matter that is score so take the time prepare and rock it the first time.
> 
> Also after the second time according to some of recruiters that ive been in communication with say they've NEVER seen a third test issued so its very very difficult to get.
> 
> I hope this has helped and goodluck on your test.
> 
> John



Some clarification:

If you take the CFAT a second time, and you score lower, that is the score that counts.  There is no "Best of the Two".


----------



## tanman89

Yes thank you for the clarification, say for example you get an overall score of 27 on your first test and you dont like that and rewrite it in 90 days and score say a 20 they take the 20 as your score and if that reduces the occupations that are available to you thats the risk you run.

Like I've learned from the forum and I hope you will too is that taking the extra time to do things right the first time will help you not just through the application process but for the rest of your career.


Thanks again George for the clarification,


John


----------



## simple

Is it  possible to volunteer in the forces full-time? if yes, do you still need to the cfat?


----------



## PuckChaser

simple said:
			
		

> Is it  possible to volunteer in the forces full-time? if yes, do you still need to the cfat?



The CF is a volunteer military. If you mean work for the CF without getting paid, the answer is no. Every member of the CF does a CFAT to get in. (Not sure of CIC and Rangers, someone in the know clear that up?)


----------



## JMesh

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Every member of the CF does a CFAT to get in. (Not sure of CIC and Rangers, someone in the know clear that up?)



Can't speak for Rangers, but CIC do not have to do the CFAT.


----------



## nickanick

I took the CFAT in the beginning of the year. I passed my initial application for artillery res.
However, when I asked further question about my plan of joining as an officer in the future after I graduate in the interview.
The recruiter said I'm 2 points short in becoming an officer. :'(

Would any one know is it difficult to get two more points in CFAT?

Thx!


----------



## welcjon

The CFAT test is common sense. If you fail, appy to McDonalds.


----------



## lethalLemon

welcjon said:
			
		

> The CFAT test is common sense. If you fail, appy to McDonalds.



No, and that kind of talk is unreasonable.


----------



## Journeyman

welcjon said:
			
		

> The CFAT test is common sense. If you fail, *appy* to McDonalds.


Which is why kids, you always use spell check, especially if you're going to look like a tool when trying to slag someone.



Oh, and the T in CFAT is "test," so you're actually saying "Canadian Forces Aptitude Test test."


----------



## Michael OLeary

nickanick said:
			
		

> Would any one know is it difficult to get two more points in CFAT?



No-one can answer that question. We don't know you, we don't know exactly how you did on each section of the test, we don't know where you need to improve or what you might have to do to achieve it, we don't know how many points you may have gotten just because you were lucky in your guesses when you weren't sure of the answer. You could as easily write the test again and drop two points.

The only person who can judge if you might be able to do better, is you.

As for the rest of us, we'd have no better guarantee of providing an answer for you than if we each just flipped a coin.


----------



## medicineman

welcjon said:
			
		

> The CFAT test is common sense. If you fail, appy to McDonalds.



Sounds like you may have had some problems then?

I'll quote you what I was told 20 something years ago when I did it- "12 year olds have no problems with this thing and geniuses with PhD's fail it".  12 of us wrote, 4 made it through...alot of those that didn't had alot of common dog between them.  Explain that.

MM


----------



## nickanick

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> You could as easily write the test again and drop two points



Thanks for your reply.
Which score would it count then? The best score? Or the latest?


----------



## Hammer Sandwich

nickanick said:
			
		

> Thanks for your reply.
> Which score would it count then? The best score? Or the latest?



LOOK AT REPLY #4 OF THIS THREAD.


----------



## George Wallace

I think you will have a lot of problems with YOUR CFAT testing:

See Reply # 4 above.

Also you may want to read this:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

and this:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13076.0.html


----------



## Sizzle709

Don't worry too much about your CFAT. Brush up on your basic math skills. (Multiplication, Division, Fractions and Decimals). Read the dictionary once and while for words you might not have known, PRACTICE , PRACTICE, PRACTICE and you will do just fine


----------



## wabbit67

welcjon said:
			
		

> The CFAT test is common sense. If you fail, appy to McDonalds.



so well said! 
here's a website where u should score at least 110 in a blink of an eye. if you're below 100 forget the army...
http://www.intelligencetest.com/


----------



## Michael OLeary

wabbit67 said:
			
		

> so well said!
> here's a website where u should score at least 110 in a blink of an eye. if you're below 100 forget the army...
> http://www.intelligencetest.com/



And your professional qualifications to make that assessment are?


----------



## wabbit67

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> And your professional qualifications to make that assessment are?



Oh, now I got it. I'm not qualified in any way, and I'm not misleading anybody. But that test will give anyone an idea of his own limitations, it's a general aptitudes test. 
Those who are not able to score at least 100 have a problem, or more. However, they may have talent in other fields...


----------



## Michael OLeary

wabbit67 said:
			
		

> it's a basic test, u don't need any qualifications. it's about native aptitudes



So why should anyone take your opinion as valid about the CFAT or any other test? "IQ" and "native aptitudes" aren't the same thing. What are you basing your opinion on that that particular online test has any validity regarding a potential applicant's ability to pass the CFAT?

You made the statement, justify it.


----------



## wabbit67

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> So why should anyone take your opinion as valid about the CFAT or any other test? "IQ" and "native aptitudes" aren't the same thing. What are you basing your opinion on that that particular online test has any validity regarding a potential applicant's ability to pass the CFAT?
> 
> You made the statement, justify it.



I just did. But as I said, I don't compare anything with CFAT, it's just a forum and anybody can post an opinion, it doesn't have to be official, right?

Did u have a look on that website?


----------



## medicineman

Uninformed opinions don't fly far around here - that's what he's getting at.

MM


----------



## Michael OLeary

Yes I did look at it. And you have confirmed through avoiding the question that you have no qualifications to tell any member here that they should base their expectations of success on the CFAT on that test. We try NOT to mislead people here, either by giving them false expectations or to suggest that some arbitrary test may indicate they are unsuitable as a CF applicant. If you want to recommend it as one more possible site to practice similar questions, then do so, but without your personal opinion that it will determine their likelihood of passing the CFAT.

When did you write the CFAT, to make this comparison, anyway?


----------



## wabbit67

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Yes I did look at it. And you have confirmed through avoiding the question that you have no qualifications to tell any member here that they should base their expectations of success on the CFAT on that test. We try NOT to mislead people here, either by giving them false expectations or to suggest that some arbitrary test may indicate they are unsuitable as a CF applicant. If you want to recommend it as one more possible site to practice similar questions, then do so, but without your personal opinion that it will determine their likelihood of passing the CFAT.
> 
> When did you write the CFAT, to make this comparison, anyway?



Ok, sorry if I did something wrong, it wasn't on purpose. It was just as u said, something to practice, and to give anyone an idea what an aptitude test is about.
I didn't pass a test a CFAT test, but I passed a very comprehensive one (9 sections for 2 hours) for the company where I'm working. This company had a lot of problems before either with new graduates with high marks on their transcripts or with experienced ones providing very good references. That lead to questions like: "Who hired this one?", cause we work in teams, and those with poor judgement could not hide. So the management decided to implement this kind of test for all the existing employees as well as for those to be hired. That happened some 8 years ago and if proved to be (very) effective. 
So, I might try to enroll as a combat officer for the navy, and I'm not scared of any tests, CFAT included, cause I did well ever since the primary school. The only thing that bugs me is where I might end after the training period (if accepted), but that's part of the army business, I guess.


----------



## Michael OLeary

wabbit67 said:
			
		

> I didn't pass a test a CFAT test, ....



Enough said.

Welcome to Army.ca, spend some time looking around the site and get a feel for the general level of discussion.  You will find it's not like many other online forums. We like to see people backing up their statements, and any reputation you build here will be based on what you say in front of a primary audience with a lot of military experience spanning the entire CF.


----------



## j.lavalier

I have a question about the CFTA.
if you fail the test, are you kicked out and not allowed to try for a whole year, or do you just fail and continue with basic training?

Thanks


----------



## aesop081

j.lavalier said:
			
		

> or do you just fail and continue with basic training?



You will not be allowed to join the CF without passing the CFAT for your chosen trade(s) first.


----------



## dimsum

j.lavalier said:
			
		

> I have a question about the CFTA.
> if you fail the test, *are you kicked out* and not allowed to try for a whole year, or do you just fail and continue with basic training?
> 
> Thanks



Technically, you're not "in" at the time, so no you wouldn't be kicked out.  Aside from that, what CDN Aviator said.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

futuresoldier101 said:
			
		

> how hard is the cfat i'm going to be taking it soon, i'm gonna try to get into infantry ,



Please read, and follow, the Site Guidelines regarding punctuation, capitalisation and grammar.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## futuresoldier101

wabbit67 said:
			
		

> Ok, sorry if I did something wrong, it wasn't on purpose. It was just as u said, something to practice, and to give anyone an idea what an aptitude test is about.
> I didn't pass a test a CFAT test, but I passed a very comprehensive one (9 sections for 2 hours) for the company where I'm working. This company had a lot of problems before either with new graduates with high marks on their transcripts or with experienced ones providing very good references. That lead to questions like: "Who hired this one?", cause we work in teams, and those with poor judgement could not hide. So the management decided to implement this kind of test for all the existing employees as well as for those to be hired. That happened some 8 years ago and if proved to be (very) effective.
> So, I might try to enroll as a combat officer for the navy, and I'm not scared of any tests, CFAT included, cause I did well ever since the primary school. The only thing that bugs me is where I might end after the training period (if accepted), but that's part of the army business, I guess.



i thought this forum was for current past and future CF members, he was telling people that they couldn't pass when he hadn't even tried it.


----------



## futuresoldier101

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I think you will have a lot of problems with YOUR CFAT testing:
> 
> See Reply # 4 above.
> 
> Also you may want to read this:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html
> 
> and this:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13076.0.html



why do you say that you don't know me.


----------



## Scott

Alright, futuresoldier101, you're all over the place here and consistently failing to read the threads properly. The quoted post in your last was not even directed at you.

Welcome to the Warning System

Staff


----------



## Kat Stevens

futuresoldier101 said:
			
		

> i thought this forum was for current past and future CF members, he was telling people that they couldn't pass when he hadn't even tried it.



Thought and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee around here.  This forum is for anyone with an interest in the CF and what it stands for.


----------



## MrsAlex

Considering the wide range of personality types needed in the Forces, I wouldn't discourage anybody who's determined to be part of the CF, only because they failed a test. 

Studying in pedagogy, the very first thing we learn is that there are many intelligences. Not just 2 or 3, but 8, according to Howard E. Gardner. It is my opinion that all kinds of intelligence are useful to the Forces, in one trade or another. The thing is some of those intelligence types are very difficult to measure in a test. So, really, the fact the some have difficulties with the test while others thought it was a walk in the park means (for the most part) that the later possess an intelligence that is easier to test.


----------



## Michael OLeary

MrsAlex said:
			
		

> Considering the wide range of personality types needed in the Forces, I wouldn't discourage anybody who's determined to be part of the CF, only because they failed a test.
> 
> Studying in pedagogy, the very first thing we learn is that there are many intelligences. Not just 2 or 3, but 8, according to Howard E. Gardner. It is my opinion that all kinds of intelligence are useful to the Forces, in one trade or another. The thing is some of those intelligence types are very difficult to measure in a test. So, really, the fact the some have difficulties with the test while others thought it was a walk in the park means (for the most part) that the later possess an intelligence that is easier to test.



While that is your opinion and may be true, the use of the CFAT as an initial requirement has long standing precedence and is working for us. We put many people in potentially dangerous situations and require people to conform to a fairly rigid instructional construct in most of our early training - while there may be eight types of "intelligence", we do not have the time, nor the resources, to develop instructors capable of managing eight variations on the instructional approach within the scope of our training time limitations. Everyone may have a right as a citizen to apply to serve in the CF - at no time is that extended to an expectation that the CF will adjust to every type of trainee requirement just to fulfill their dreams.  This is the Army*, not the Make-a-Wish foundation.

* and Navy and Air Force


----------



## MrsAlex

Oh, I completely agree with you! My post wasn't meant to be a criticism, and I'm sorry if it has appeared as such. 

I was merely pointing out that a failure to a test did not mean a person isn't fit for the CF, and therefore that person shouldn't give up if she/he is determined to have a military career.


----------



## MrsAlex

lol I'm gonna sound like a complete bootlicker, but I also agree with you! Someone who repeatedly fails to a the test simply can't be integrated in the CF. But someone who has had difficulties at a first attempt and fails, can very well get ready for a second attempt and succeed. The idea is not for that person to cry "I'm misunderstood, boo-oo  :crybaby:" but to turn it around and realize what are his strengths and weaknesses and ask himself "alright, now how can I work that around?" And thus, show determination, resourcefulness and a capacity to adaptation. 

My whole point about different types of intelligence was to explain how two equally fit for CF candidates could respond so differently to the same test. That's all.


----------



## Ingmundar

My apologizes if questions of this nature have been asked before. A quick google search and search of this forum didn't find the answers I was looking for. 

I have a few questions about training (BMQ) as a Reservist.

1) What is the duration of BMQ for a reservist? I've heard 8 weeks, but in a few articles I found it said 22 days. 

2) For the reserve BMQ, are we allowed to go home on weekends?

3) I'm a vegetarian (not for ethical reasons but because red meats make me violently ill), will there be food available for me to eat? 

4) I'm a student and will be studying at McGill University (in Montreal) next year, though I live in and will travel back to Winnipeg in the summers. Is it possible to go back and forth with the Reserves? 

Thanks.


----------



## aesop081

Ingmundar said:
			
		

> 2) For the reserve BMQ, are we allowed to go home on weekends?



BMQ for reservists is mostly done *on* weekends.



> will there be food available for me to eat?



No, sorry, we allow people to starve. Just kidding, yes you will have food to eat.



> 4) I'm a student and will be studying at McGill University (in Montreal) next year, though I live in and will travel back to Winnipeg in the summers. Is it possible to go back and forth with the Reserves?



The you might want to join the reserves in Montreal as reserve training happens (usualy) one night per week and some weekends. More training takes place during the summers (like trades training).


----------



## Hammer Sandwich

Ingmundar said:
			
		

> 1) What is the duration of BMQ for a reservist? I've heard 8 weeks, but in a few articles I found it said 22 days.



It may/will vary greatly. 
Some folks get the weekend BMQ's, some get the full time deal. (Mine was 3 1/2 weeks).
You might/or might not get a lot of notice regarding your course length.



			
				Ingmundar said:
			
		

> 2) For the reserve BMQ, are we allowed to go home on weekends?



I did BMQ/SQ one right after the other over about 7 weeks.
We got 3 (IIRC) 48-hour passes during the 7 weeks.
YMMV.



			
				Ingmundar said:
			
		

> 3) I'm a vegetarian (not for ethical reasons but because red meats make me violently ill), will there be food available for me to eat?



Yup. In the dining hall and field.



			
				Ingmundar said:
			
		

> 4) I'm a student and will be studying at McGill University (in Montreal) next year, though I live in and will travel back to Winnipeg in the summers. Is it possible to go back and forth with the Reserves?



Wow, that sounds like a pain in the ass.
A recruiter should be able to give you some guidance on that one.



			
				Ingmundar said:
			
		

> Thanks.



No problem...I accept payment in sandwiches.


----------



## Hammer Sandwich

Sh!t.

Didn't see the red "while you were typing" warning.


----------



## Nauticus

Ingmundar said:
			
		

> My apologizes if questions of this nature have been asked before. A quick google search and search of this forum didn't find the answers I was looking for.
> 
> I have a few questions about training (BMQ) as a Reservist.
> 
> 1) What is the duration of BMQ for a reservist? I've heard 8 weeks, but in a few articles I found it said 22 days.
> 
> 2) For the reserve BMQ, are we allowed to go home on weekends?
> 
> 3) I'm a vegetarian (not for ethical reasons but because red meats make me violently ill), will there be food available for me to eat?
> 
> 4) I'm a student and will be studying at McGill University (in Montreal) next year, though I live in and will travel back to Winnipeg in the summers. Is it possible to go back and forth with the Reserves?
> 
> Thanks.


During the summer, there may be courses (including reserve BMQ, etc) that you may elect to take. You basically may go "full time" for a period during the summertime, and continue "part time" service throughout the year. Your "part time" service may require one night a week, one weekend a month with the reserve unit you are enrolled in.


----------



## sharp_85

1) Like people already stated there's a couple ways of doing BMQ. There are usually weekend courses running (about 3 months long), or full time courses during the summer (4 weeks long), some areas also have Co-op courses where you're on course Monday to Friday from 1300-1800 and some weekends.

2) Whether or not you get weekends off is completely up to your course staff and depends on how well your course is doing. I know some course got Friday evening to Sunday evening off, and some that had one weekend off but they still had to sleep in barracks.

3) Yes, just inform your course staff and they will make sure that there's meal options available for you.

4) I would definitely look into joining the Reserves in Montreal instead of Winnipeg. Otherwise you won't be able to do 80% of the yearly training.


----------



## Marshall12345

I was looking for a site to practice the aptitude test and came across this link  http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf

It is off the forces website so I know it must be accurate but im wondering if it is out of date? What do you think? Does anyone know of any others that may be more up to date? I think that one is from 08.  


Thanks


----------



## Silverfire

PREPARING FOR YOUR CANADIAN FORCES APTITUDE TEST (CFAT) 
CFRC TORONTO
Updated 20 Oct 08

"In order to help you prepare for the CFAT, below are several internet websites that you can access. It is highly recommended that you consider looking at some of these sites. If you were unsuccessful on your first attempt you must wait three (3) months to re-write. If you are unsuccessful a second time you will require significant academic upgrading before you can attempt the test a third time. 

The CFAT is similar but not identical to many internet sites that offer free Aptitude/IQ. Below are some examples:

www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=12
www.intelligencetest.com
www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/pract-test-examn-pract/gct2-ecg2-pract-i-eng.htm
www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/index-eng.htm

In addition, you could conduct an internet search using the following keywords:

Aptitude test
Practice aptitude test
Practice IQ test
Aptitude test strategy

You may also want to refresh your math skills by visiting www.math.com and/or borrowing a General Education Diploma (GED) study book from your local library. 

A focus on Verbal Skills, Spatial Ability, and Problem Solving throughout your preparation would be in your best interest.

Work hard and good luck."



Its not really something that is out of date or not.  Can't really go into details as you sign a nondisclosure agreement.


----------



## tanman89

Stacked said:
			
		

> The CFAT is a lot harder.



I agree here, although nobody can tell you exactly what is on the test as it is prohibited it is best to prepare in all areas to the best of your ability. The recruiter did tell me that this is the best test to prepare for the cfat http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/pract-test-examn-pract/gct2-ecg2-pratc-i-eng.htm    (I relinked because the link i clicked on above gave me a http error =/) 

But anyways i practiced on the above linked test and i found it very helpful, and kind of gives you a scope of what you should be studying on more, because as said before these tests do help but the cfat can be much more difficult.


Best of luck,

John


----------



## Chrispi

Stacked said:
			
		

> The CFAT is a lot harder.



I will second Stacked point...    :nod:

It really is a *TEST*...  You will need to *STUDY*!
Additionally, you will need to manage your time for each section appropriately.

The practice tests are just samples of what you can expect, not the level of difficulty.

Don't go into the test thinking you will see simple questions like "SAD People are: (A) honest (B) clever (C) unhappy (D) Canuck Fans"

Use that more as a broad example:  You see a word, need to know it's definition, and then choose the appropriate answer.

Good Luck, relax, and get a good night sleep before hand.


----------



## infantryian

The format is identical to the practice tests though. Yes the difficulty is much increased.

As for the non-disclosure. That is more to say you cannot tell someone "Okay, so there was word 'X' on the test so make sure you look it up."

You will see words you have never heard of. There will be problem solving questions that you honestly can't figure out. THAT IS OKAY! Just try to do it all to the best of your ability.


----------



## buck13

I'm in pretty much the same boat (McGill student who is away for summers) and from what I understand you can "switch" reserves for periods of time. I might be wrong though, I'm joining up this September too.


----------



## Trick

I have my CFAT coming up next week and for what it's worth my recruiter made sure to stress that just because I'm a grad student I shouldn't take it lightly. He said (as others here have) that the real test is quite  a bit harder than the practice and sometimes has questions that feel out of left field. While you don't really need to memorize much, definitely study.


----------



## Ayrsayle

Perhaps a little off topic, but judging by the reactions of some of my fellow test-mates during the test it might be helpful. Don't panic during the test if you do not know an answer! While you have enough time to answer all the questions, you don't have enough to obsess over questions you don't know the answers to.

It is perfectly understandable why many people do not know the answers to every question - they are evaluating a spectrum of people from grade 10 to Doctorates (I would assume). Relax, review, and don't be late.


----------



## cnobbs84

Trick said:
			
		

> I have my CFAT coming up next week and for what it's worth my recruiter made sure to stress that just because I'm a grad student I shouldn't take it lightly. He said (as others here have) that the real test is quite  a bit harder than the practice and sometimes has questions that feel out of left field. While you don't really need to memorize much, definitely study.



My suggestion is pick up a GED book from chapters they are only like 20 bucks I think. I'm a University student who graduated and has taken the CFAT however because we cannot talk about it my suggestion is this... Remember we went to University... we learned University math, english etc... the CFAT is grade 10 big difference so get that book and look it over along with read what to expect because it will shock you.


----------



## brihard

"If Private Bloggins is running at 10.5 km/h, and has a 150m head start on the Sergeant Major who is chasing him at 12 km/h, how far will he travel before the Sergeant Major catches Private Bloggins, unhinges his jaw like a snake, and eats Private Bloggins' head in rage?"

Don't stress out too much about it- you'll be fine. Just put the study in, and write the thing. It's not a pass/fail, it's an assessment of your abilities and how they link up with what the military's looking for.


----------



## Trick

For those who have written it, did you find you were pressed for time? I tend to do well on these types of things, but I do take my time. Also, I presume you are made aware of how much time you have left as the test goes on?


----------



## Fiera

Trick said:
			
		

> For those who have written it, did you find you were pressed for time? I tend to do well on these types of things, but I do take my time. Also, I presume you are made aware of how much time you have left as the test goes on?



When I wrote the CFAT we had a timer in the room that got reset for each section of the test. The only section I found time to be an issue was the math. However when I wrote the test I had failed math 9 and had not looked at a math book in several years. I'm told I did well and have upgraded to math 11 now so if I were to write it again it probably wouldn't be the problem it was last time. Definitely get a GED book, check out Khan Academy and just brush up on your math if you're not strong in it or have not done it in a while. And if you're having problems with a question, go on to the next one and come back to it when everything else is complete. You don't want to lose marks overall from unanswered questions because you spent too much time on one you couldn't get.


----------



## reboog

Trick said:
			
		

> For those who have written it, did you find you were pressed for time? I tend to do well on these types of things, but I do take my time. Also, I presume you are made aware of how much time you have left as the test goes on?




 I barely managed to finish the spatial section in time, but rocked the math like it was nothing. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses in different places, so it'll completely depend on where yours lie. The practice CFAT is pretty representative of the TYPES of questions that are on the real test, but not of its difficulty. Practice what you can.

Also, my CFAT was done on a computer and there's a little timer in the corner of the screen that flashes at you when your time is running out.


----------



## EngineerWannabe

I read the CFAT FAQ thread an I didn't find the answer to my question. I tried the search bar with not much luck either. I was wondering what kind of score I would need to get on the test to become a Combat Engineer. I just finished grade 11 with low 60's in Pure Math and Physics. My English skills are alright. I struggle with tests sometimes. Anyway back to the question, does anyone know the specific score required? My other trade choices were Armoured Soldier and Vehicle Tech. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Wannabe


----------



## infantryian

The specific score is a moot point. You will not be told your score to find out how much you missed it by, or how much you surpassed it by. 
If I told you that you needed to answer 75% of all questions correctly would you try harder?

I am not sure if you are applying for regular or reserve. If it is regular then you should take math and physics in grade 12 and try to apply yourself better. Hiring a tutor may not be a terrible move either. If reserve I would try to study up your math skills, specifically, the types of problems shown in the practice test. If you fail you can always keep trying to upgrade your education and try harder in math and physics in grade 12 and try again.


----------



## EngineerWannabe

Thank you for the answer, I'm going to be trying my hardest no matter what and taking my time. I don't think I've studied this hard for a test in my life. I've been looking at all my math books from grade 10 and 11 and my little brother's junior high math stuff. I've fallen behind in my basic math because of all the calculators!

Thanks,
Wannabe


----------



## EngineerWannabe

I'm usually the kid that is done the test 20 minutes before anyone else so I don't think it should be a problem (well I hope). Another question that I just thought of, if I want to be an engineer; would my spatial or math be more important? It kind of sounds stupid but hey no stupid questions, or so I'm told 

Thanks,
Wannabe


----------



## Trick

Somewhat related to the above question, is your score just the straight % correct on the whole exam, or are you graded per section?


----------



## EngineerWannabe

Damn, good advice I really do need to chill.

Thanks,
Wannabe


----------



## Neill McKay

EngineerWannabe said:
			
		

> I read the CFAT FAQ thread an I didn't find the answer to my question. I tried the search bar with not much luck either. I was wondering what kind of score I would need to get on the test to become a Combat Engineer.



My information is pretty dated.  It's been more than fifteen years since I wrote the tests, but at the time all you got was a list of trades for which you were found suitable by the testing software -- no marks or other results.

The tests cover a variety of abilities, and I would imagine that The System takes the results of different tests into consideration in giving you a "yes" or "no" for different trades.  A low score in a given test might exclude you from certain trades but have no affect on your suitability for others.


----------



## MMSS

I wrote the CFAT in 2005 with about a dozen others. I had no issues with the timing however some of the others certainly did. Prepare yourself, I didn't study a whole lot but then again I was a full time university student at the time anyway so math and writing were pretty fresh. 

My senior year of high school I wrote the SAT as I was thinking about applying to American schools, I found the timing was a lot more difficult, more than almost any test I have had before or after.


----------



## Chrispi

Trick said:
			
		

> For those who have written it, did you find you were pressed for time? I tend to do well on these types of things, but I do take my time. Also, I presume you are made aware of how much time you have left as the test goes on?



I had the opportunity to write mine on a computer, as mentioned by others, I was well aware of the time I had remaining for each section as I went along.

Depending on the person, and what you've studied, the sections will be more/less difficult.
I finished the Math section on time...  barely.  Every other section I had time to go back, and review my answers.

I ASSuME that depending on the CFRC you go to, you may, or may not, have a PC based version.  
(I cannot say if every CFRC has the same set-up as I had).

If you perform the test on a PC, the number of questions, remaining questions, and timer is presented to you.  
Everything you need to manage every question is presented to you, relax, go at a comfortable pace, and you will be fine.

Good Luck!


----------



## Trick

Stacked said:
			
		

> Why are you worrying about all this little crap?  Is knowing the required score for Combat Engineer going to make you some how do better?  Do your best, if you qualify you qualify.
> 
> And why does it matter if you are graded per section? Damn guys.
> 
> Here's some advice:  All this time you're spending worrying about what score you need, or if it's percentage based overall or per section, could be used to study!
> When it comes down to it, it really doesn't matter. Knowing the required scores or how you are actually assessed isn't going to help you pass. It's not a question on the CFAT!  ;D



Ha, fair enough point. I would say though that anxiety plays a lot in these types of things, and going into an exam knowing as much about the process as possible often reduces that anxiety for a lot of people.


----------



## Trick

Just thought I would share this link for some spatial stuff:
http://www.psychometric-success.com/practice-papers/Psychometric%20Success%20Spatial%20Ability%20-%20Practice%20Test%201.pdf

Writing the CFAT tomorrow, so I'm not sure how representative it is, but I found it helpful. The Spatial Ability section will probably be the hardest for me.


----------



## Trick

Just wrote it today, so I thought I'd give some feedback while it's still fresh. Personally, I was really pressed for time in both the spatial and problem solving portions. As I predicted, I struggled quite a bit with the spatial questions and I think of all the sections, the jump was the biggest in difficulty from the practice test to the actual CFAT for me. I actually had to fire off the last 5-6 very quickly in the problem solving portion despite being very confident in the questions I did complete. 

So all that being said, I felt pretty lousy after the test. Actually, I felt pretty lousy during the test when I realized this wasn't going to plan. Despite that though (they don't give you specific scores) I was told in my interview afterwards that my results were excellent. So my advice would be not to let yourself get too stressed, you're probably doing better than you think. Honestly, I think I could have done even better had I kept my cool more and not spent time stressing about the time...

There were a couple people there who didn't get the result they wanted, but don't worry, they don't laugh you out of the RC or anything. They give you feedback, and tell you how (and encourage you) to improve. Obviously everyone wants to pass for their trade, but if you don't your life isn't over.

So that's about all that comes to mind. Good luck to all those writing it!


----------



## Rugiviet

I just did mine today.

The sample test at the army website is a good approximation but the actual test is a bit harder. The problems are all similar but they are just harder and involve a bit more calculation.

You need to brush up on your multiplication and division by hand for the maths component.

I was pressed for time on the spatial and problem solving sections, time management is crucial on the test. Don't spend too much time on any one problem even if you know how to solve it but its taking a long time because of the calculations, just guess the best answer and go on to the next question.

Doing Asvab sample tests and spatial IQ tests online will help.

I did ok, was told that I was eligible for all trades and scored in the officer range.


----------



## SoldierInAYear

Lets say you fail all the math parts of the CFAT and pass the rest. Will you still be able to qualify for some trades?


----------



## Romanmaz

Paul_Ontario said:
			
		

> Lets say you fail all the math parts of the CFAT and pass the rest. Will you still be able to qualify for some trades?


If you're even asking this question I suggest you brush up on your math before you take the test. The math/problem solving section is arguably the easiest part of the test.
I'm assuming you have to meet the minimum requirements on every section of the test to qualify for your chosen trade(s) so failing one aspect means not qualifying/failing.


----------



## SOES_vet

Trick said:
			
		

> So all that being said, I felt pretty lousy after the test. Actually, I felt pretty lousy during the test when I realized this wasn't going to plan. Despite that though (they don't give you specific scores) I was told in my interview afterwards that my results were excellent. So my advice would be not to let yourself get too stressed, you're probably doing better than you think. Honestly, I think I could have done even better had I kept my cool more and not spent time stressing about the time...



Glad it all worked out in the end, and yes, the spatial orientation portion of the CFAT, is generally considered to be the hardest part for most people. That said, and I once mentioned this on a similar thread, you can train yourself to get better at those types of questions by drilling lots of them. There should be plenty of resources online. Either way, it all worked out for you anyway.

Great advice on trying not to stress out during the exam. Once you are there, during the test, exam etc, what will happen will happen, and all there is to do is to put forth your best effort. Stressing wont help, and if you need to stress there will be plenty of time to do that afterwards.


----------



## ngmike92

I'm wondering if the cfat gives part marks, you show the work do you get some marks?

For example
If Private Bloggins is running at 10.5 km/h, and has a 150m head start on the Sergeant Major who is chasing him at 12 km/h, how far will he travel before the Sergeant Major catches Private Bloggins, unhinges his jaw like a snake, and eats Private Bloggins' head in rage?

10.5km/h = 2.92m/s

so we set the same time for both let say 2 seconds, with the equation v=d/t so d=vt but we know v=2.92 and we set t= 2 so d=2.92*2 + 150 m head start

for sergeant major 12km/h = 3.33m/s so his t is unknown but we can find T to solve for D because v*t= d     so v=d/t     3.33=2.92*2+150/t solve for t then use t* v to get d of sergeant major

Note i'm not sure if that works it just a far fetched try that gives me the best example of my question, if I have work like that and I get the awnser wrong do I get part marks.


----------



## aesop081

ngmike92 said:
			
		

> I'm wondering if the cfat gives part marks, you show the work do you get some marks?



No.


----------



## JMesh

ngmike92 said:
			
		

> For example
> If Private Bloggins is running at 10.5 km/h, and has a 150m head start on the Sergeant Major who is chasing him at 12 km/h, how far will he travel before the Sergeant Major catches Private Bloggins, unhinges his jaw like a snake, and eats Private Bloggins' head in rage?



You wouldn't get part marks for two reasons:
[list type=decimal]
[*]CFAT is multiple choice and does not allow for part marks.
[*]Your math is wrong.
[/list]
You can't input a time to find time. Rather, you know the total distances (including the extra 150m) will be equal, so:

10.5*t+.15=12*t (150 m=.15 km) (make the two objects motions equal)
12t-10.5t=.15 (switched the t to one side, isolating the variable)
1.5t=.15
t=.1 hours

Then solve for the actual distance of Pte Bloggins (which is what was asked for):
10.5km/h*.1h=1.05km

Private Bloggins will actually get to run for 6 minutes. At least he can make peace with his maker before his Sergeant Major makes pieces of him  >


----------



## Trick

Straying a bit off topic here, but Rugivet- you weren't doing it in Toronto were you?

Also, I should have asked this today, but say my trade closes for this year and I apply again next year- do I take the CFAT again?


----------



## ngmike92

LOL well thank you for solving it correctly, i knew i was wrong some where hence the note. physics and calculus isn't my forte


----------



## PMedMoe

Trick said:
			
		

> Also, I should have asked this today, but say my trade closes for this year and I apply again next year- do I take the CFAT again?



No, once you qualify for your chosen trade(s), that's good enough.


----------



## SoldierInAYear

Romanmaz said:
			
		

> If you're even asking this question I suggest you brush up on your math before you take the test. The math/problem solving section is arguably the easiest part of the test.
> I'm assuming you have to meet the minimum requirements on every section of the test to qualify for your chosen trade(s) so failing one aspect means not qualifying/failing.



Thanks for the reply. I'm starting Gr.10 math next year.


----------



## Chrispi

Trick,

Grats on your result, good to see you qualified for all your choices.




			
				Trick said:
			
		

> ...the jump was the biggest in difficulty from the practice test to the actual CFAT for me.



Yup, it's not so much a jump...  More like Evil Knievel over the Snake River   
(Okay, maybe not that much, but still a big jump.)


Congratulations on your results, now the fun really begins...  Waiting!
The frantic run to the phone anytime it rings before 9:00am...
The regular calls to the RC...  
And my favorite... The constant questions from friends/family "So hows that army thing going?"
(Okay I'm being sarcastic, but in all honesty, I'm finding the wait even more stressful than the Test or Interview.)

Cheers, :cheers:


----------



## reboog

Chrispi said:
			
		

> And my favorite... The constant questions from friends/family "So hows that army thing going?"



Oh how wonderful it is. My girlfriend's mother keeps telling me that the army doesn't want me due to lack of phone call. My grandmother calls me every time a random question pops into her head (Last time it was "Do you get to carry a pistol with you?").


----------



## Trick

Ha, oh yes, I have quite  a bit of waiting ahead of me. My father lives in the States, and I've spent about 8 months in Germany, so I have to go through the whole backcheck process. You don't even schedule an Interview or Medical until that's done, and it can take quite a while. The only trade I'm applying for is Infantry Officer, which is open, but it's not like they're dying for recruits. So I half-expect to not make it in this year before I get all the steps done. But that's fine, I'm in the middle of a graduate degree that I'd like to finish anyways- I just made sure to apply now so that when I really, really want to get in next spring, I'll already have most of the things out of the way.


So we'll see how it all goes. Ha, in my case, I have lots of people kind of rooting against it, namely, all my co-workers. Doctors and scientists don't seem to have much respect for the Army... But those who knew me before the white coat all pretty much know this is what I've always wanted, and why.

Oh, one more word of advice on the verbal section. If you can, try to get a handle on the meanings behind root words and prefixes and such. There were two words that I had never heard in my life, but was able to guess based on what seemed to be (in both cases) the Greek origins of the word. So if you see a word like that, before you freak out, try to think of it that way.


----------



## Ayrsayle

Probably the smartest way to do things Trick. I was debating going in for grad school but figured this was ultimately where I wanted to end up regardless. That being said, I am kicking myself for not applying in my final semester - would have made the wait times a little more bearable. Hopefully your background check isn't one of the horror stories we've heard about.

Keep at it - my favorite professor was very supportive of my career path - turns out he was ex-military himself (taught War History, so it shouldn't have been that surprising)


----------



## Gooner

Hello all,

I have been reading the boards for several months in anticipation of my upcoming tests with my local reserve unit. However, I have been unable to find an answer to my questions.

In a few weeks I have my CFAT and PT test along with my interview. When I spoke to them they said that I should come dressed in PT gear and that even my interview will be conducted in my PT clothes. Now, my question is has anyone had this experience before where all three things were done in one day and do you know which order they do them in? I don't want to do the interview or test and be all sweaty.

Also, do you have any tips for what to wear for PT. I was gonna wear soccer shorts and a t-shirt with a Canadian flag on it. And perhaps bring a spare t-shirt in case my interview or test is last and I need to change.

Finally, they didn't mention it but I was wondering if it's also a good idea to bring a cover letter and resume with me for the interview? Also, if I do bring it and they don't ask for it during the interview is it a good idea to offer it?

Any answers or tips for the above questions is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Chrispi

Gooner said:
			
		

> Finally, they didn't mention it but I was wondering if it's also a good idea to bring a cover letter and resume with me for the interview? Also, if I do bring it and they don't ask for it during the interview is it a good idea to offer it?




I'll slightly swerve out of my lane here...   (I didn't apply for reserve).

I'd definitely recommend bringing your resume and cover letter.
After writing my CFAT I was asked to bring my resume down to the CFRC as it was the last piece of documentation missing from my file.

If they don't ask for it, I'd mention you brought it.  
At worst they will tell you they don't want/need it.  
At best, it will save you a trip later.  
"Semper Paratus"


...back to my lane.


----------



## Ayrsayle

I believe I have read at least a few topics in the last few weeks regarding these questions, though not all in a single post. Fairly sure you could find them in both the Recruiting and Recruiting process Threads. 

I'll humor you however with brief answers:
Unsure about the exact order, but I would assume the CFAT and PT test first, then interview - as there is little point in interviewing you if you fail either. I think it is in your best interest to bring a set of professional clothes to change into for your interview if given the opportunity, but if you were told what you wore for PT would be fine, I would not be very stressed about being sweaty in an interview (They likely see it all the time)

They are not likely going to care what you wear in terms of icons, just the the results of your PT. Shorts and a T-Shirt would do the job. That being said, it is probably a good idea not to wear anything offensive. Bring a good pair of runners.

ALWAYS bring a resume and cover letter to ANY interview. This holds for a civilian or military job interview. It is better to have it in case, even if your interviewer has no interest in seeing it. Professionalism - would you go to any other job interview without one?

Again, you can find (except for the question on order, because I believe it depends on each individual, the availability of the staff to administer, etc) all of these details within the aforementioned areas. Some of the questions are also common sense - if they said they will interview you in your PT clothes, how likely do you think it is that they will be judging you negatively for being sweaty? Present yourself as best you can given the situation - common sense.


----------



## Gooner

Thanks Chrispi and Ayrsayle for your answers. It helps a lot!


----------



## west_coaster

I had my aptitiude test in May. It sucks that they won't tell you where your marks were low. There is no such thing as failing it. You qualify for a trade one way or another. The problem is for people on the west coast is, you east coasters are three hrs ahead and we lose out on opportunites. I had qualified for a few trades, but, then the afternoon before my interview, I got a call saying that those trades are no longer available.  I know i did well on the spatial. And because the trades were gone, they recommended that I re-take the assessment test and see if I qualify for more trades in September. So, I have been studying. I feel that I am doing better, but, deffinitely need improving. I went to  a web site called http://www.testreadypro.com it was one of the sites recommended. It has helped me hugely, but, some of the stuff makes me wonder why they used that extra information, lol.. http://www.math.com is a good site as well.  it helps you figure out the problem so you can study it, learn it, and use that stragedy on a test. I personally hate fractions, but, my assessment math test had quite a few fractions. SO, I know I didn't do well on that. But, I do beleive now that I can manage them better. Testreadypro.com has the preparation that a person needs. They even help you with preparing for the interview, information on basic training, what to do to prepare yourself for basic training, resume help. Its all there. But, for anyone else that will be re-doing or simply doing the assessment for the first time soon, good luck, and maybe we'll meet up in the forces one day.


----------



## Romanmaz

west_coaster said:
			
		

> I had my aptitiude test in May. It sucks that they won't tell you where your marks were low. There is no such thing as failing it. You qualify for a trade one way or another. The problem is for people on the west coast is, you east coasters are three hrs ahead and we lose out on opportunites. I had qualified for a few trades, but, then the afternoon before my interview, I got a call saying that those trades are no longer available.  I know i did well on the spatial. And because the trades were gone, they recommended that I re-take the assessment test and see if I qualify for more trades in September. So, I have been studying. I feel that I am doing better, but, deffinitely need improving. I went to  a web site called http://www.testreadypro.com it was one of the sites recommended. It has helped me hugely, but, some of the stuff makes me wonder why they used that extra information, lol.. http://www.math.com is a good site as well.  it helps you figure out the problem so you can study it, learn it, and use that stragedy on a test. I personally hate fractions, but, my assessment math test had quite a few fractions. SO, I know I didn't do well on that. But, I do beleive now that I can manage them better. Testreadypro.com has the preparation that a person needs. They even help you with preparing for the interview, information on basic training, what to do to prepare yourself for basic training, resume help. Its all there. But, for anyone else that will be re-doing or simply doing the assessment for the first time soon, good luck, and maybe we'll meet up in the forces one day.


Seriously? You think we got job offers because we're in a different time zone?  :rofl:


----------



## Marshall12345

Thanks for all the insight everyone. I aced it and got many more job opportunities aside from Infantry. Brush up on your long division, fractions, and percents and you'll do fine. Study though, If i didn't study I wouldn't have got as good.


----------



## Danno

I have to say that this is by far the most useful CFAT thread. There seems to be a level of arrogance and snobbery in some of the others I have read (ie "If you have to study for the CFAT, you're not the sharpest knife"). Do what you need to do.

If you have been out of school for awhile or even struggled a little with math when you were in, you should hit the books and brush up. Math is a huge factor in the CFAT and it could prevent you from doing what you want to do. The example test is just that. It gives you a good idea of what you should be brushing up on.

You can redo the CFAT once you are in the CF if you don't like your score by talking to your BPSO, but keep in mind that if you do worse, that score will stick. Don't take it lightly and be prepared.


----------



## Marshall12345

After completing the CFAT I can really say it wasn't hard whatsoever. I scored the highest out of the 4 there. You do need to study, but it wont be the toughest thing you will have done.


If you have any questions/concerns about the CFAT don't hesitate to PM me. I cannot tell you what is on the test however I can tell you what you should brush up on and even give a practice test of the internet I used. Someone allowed me to PM them about it and it helped greatly, so if you are concerned for whatever reason, I would love to help.


----------



## Ayrsayle

JoeMoe said:
			
		

> After completing the CFAT I can really say it wasn't hard whatsoever. I scored the highest out of the 4 there. You do need to study, but it wont be the toughest thing you will have done.
> 
> 
> If you have any questions/concerns about the CFAT don't hesitate to PM me. I cannot tell you what is on the test however I can tell you what you should brush up on and even give a practice test of the internet I used. Someone allowed me to PM them about it and it helped greatly, so if you are concerned for whatever reason, I would love to help.



Couple of notes about this - How are you to know how you did in comparison with everyone else, seeing as how they don't reveal results and the four of you likely were applying for different things (and  would need different scores accordingly). So unless all 4 of you were applying for the same trade, and the other 3 failed, I think your comment speaks for itself. Subjectively - you may not have found it challenging - but (also subjectively) I would be surprised if more then a few high school graduates could ace it.

How can you "Give a practice test of the internet [you] used"?


----------



## Marshall12345

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> Couple of notes about this - How are you to know how you did in comparison with everyone else, seeing as how they don't reveal results and the four of you likely were applying for different things (and  would need different scores accordingly). So unless all 4 of you were applying for the same trade, and the other 3 failed, I think your comment speaks for itself. Subjectively - you may not have found it challenging - but (also subjectively) I would be surprised if more then a few high school graduates could ace it.
> 
> How can you "Give a practice test of the internet [you] used"?




I wasn't directly told, but it is the impression I got by what she told me afterwards. I am currently in high school (one year left to go), and found very little difficulty with it - that is why I said it was not complex. How can I give the practice test I used? It is on a website so I can simply link it to anyone interested. 

It's not complex math whatsoever, but it does require the applicant to brush up on some skills like long division, if they are rusty.


The link if anyones interested which I used: 
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/pract-test-examn-pract/gct2-ecg2-pratc-eng.htm


----------



## Ayrsayle

I was more referring to your grammar  - I had no idea how you could give a practice test of the internet. Anyway, perhaps less constructive.

Some find the test simple, some find it hard - it is impossible to "fail", but I would argue it is equally difficult to "ace". Your commentary would seem to imply that with a little brushing up, everyone can find it easy. I wish it was that simple for everyone and I'm glad it worked out well for you. Others will not be so lucky - I wouldn't want to be the person to told them it was "easy" in that scenario however.


----------



## PMedMoe

JoeMoe said:
			
		

> I am currently in high school (one year left to go), and found very little difficulty with it



More than likely, you found little difficulty because you _are_ still in high school.  People who have been away from school for some time _may_ have more difficulty with it.


----------



## reboog

By the way, if you ask nicely enough, they might tell you exactly how you did on your CFAT. When I went into the RC a couple of months ago to submit my university diploma, I spoke with a recruiter there and asked him how I did on the tests. He told me my CFAT percentile score and mentioned that I had a "good" military potential score from my interview.


----------



## Marshall12345

Sorry, I didn't mean to downgrade the test at all. Don't take it lightly! Brush up on percents, fractions and long division, which is relatively simple and you'll do fine. Make sure you get a good sleep because a lot of the questions are just common sense and just require a couple seconds to think about it. 

Good luck to anyone writing it. Don't hesitate to PM me.


----------



## mariomike

This may also help.
Topic: "Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ";
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-1278.html#msg1278

18 pages.


----------



## Gooner

So, I had my reserve CFAT, Fitness Test and Interview (in that order  - to answer my own question) last Thursday in a building with no A/C and it was 45 degeres outside.

After I was done my interview I got several different answers as to the next steps. Some of the regiment staff said they would call either Thursday or Friday if you got accepted and if you didn't get a call then you didn't get in. Some said it would be this week.

I called the recruiting office today and spoke to two people. The first said she thought everyone was called already. She then transferred me to the guy who was running it on Thursday and he said " we will call everyone once the medicals are set up."

So, my question is does this mean they have already chosen the group and are working on the medicals for them only OR do they setup medicals for everyone they are thinking of taking on and then whittle it down from there based on the medical results?

I really want to get in and I worked hard to get ready for last Thursday. My score on the CFAT qualifies me for everything including officer. During my Step Test I did levels 3, 4, and 5 (started at Level 3 since I just turned 40), did 2x the number of pushups and situps required, my handgrip was 30 over the required number and I had the fitness tester tell me that I was in really good shape. I know for certain some people only qualified for their trade after writing the CFAT and some really struggled with the fitness test. If I didn't get in I am not sure what more I could have done to impress them.

Any thoughts on my situation is appreciated.


----------



## lethalLemon

Gooner said:
			
		

> So, I had my reserve CFAT, Fitness Test and Interview (in that order  - to answer my own question) last Thursday in a building with no A/C and it was 45 degeres outside.
> 
> After I was done my interview I got several different answers as to the next steps. Some of the regiment staff said they would call either Thursday or Friday if you got accepted and if you didn't get a call then you didn't get in. Some said it would be this week.
> 
> I called the recruiting office today and spoke to two people. The first said she thought everyone was called already. She then transferred me to the guy who was running it on Thursday and he said " we will call everyone once the medicals are set up."
> 
> So, my question is does this mean they have already chosen the group and are working on the medicals for them only OR do they setup medicals for everyone they are thinking of taking on and then whittle it down from there based on the medical results?
> 
> I really want to get in and I worked hard to get ready for last Thursday. My score on the CFAT qualifies me for everything including officer. During my Step Test I did levels 3, 4, and 5 (started at Level 3 since I just turned 40), did 2x the number of pushups and situps required, my handgrip was 30 over the required number and I had the fitness tester tell me that I was in really good shape. I know for certain some people only qualified for their trade after writing the CFAT and some really struggled with the fitness test. If I didn't get in I am not sure what more I could have done to impress them.
> 
> Any thoughts on my situation is appreciated.



If you passed the CFAT, they should have done your Medical screening PRIOR to your fitness test as if there is a pre existing medical condition or something that you (and/or doctor - if their referral is needed) mention that the Surgeon General and CFRG Medical personnel at NDHQ deem that you are NOT Fit For Service - well, then there's no point in putting you through the Fitness Test and either aggravating something or waste resources for someone who is medically fit for service to do their fitness test and move on.

They're supposed to inform you the DAY OF testing (CFAT/Fitness) if you pass or fail that way they can say "We will call you in x number of weeks to book your interview." 

If you passed your CFAT and Fitness already they should have told you that you passed and will be calling you with your medical screening appointment. Good rule of thumb is if nothing is received in 1.5/2 weeks... CALL THE CFRC!! YOU have to stay on top of your file, they have hundreds of other people to deal with to so if you don't make sure they still know you're interested (and exist) they'll put your file at the bottom of the pile in the back room to collect dust and process those that have been keeping tabs on their processing.

*NOTE TO ALL APPLICANTS: Before coming here and asking "oh this and this happened and I haven't been called to do this or this - does it mean I didn't make it or this and this" ... CALL THE RECRUITING CENTRE FIRST!! Ask them "Sir/Ma'am/Sergeant/etc. I'm calling to check up on the status of my application." By CALLING the CFRC to answer all your questions and worries, it will save you SO much heartache.*

TL;DR

Call your Recruiting Office and File Manager and check on application status.

Only *YOU* and the *CFRC* know anything and can fix anything about your situation. Be diligent, use your initiative (because trust me, if you start developing those skills now, it'll be easier for you once you begin your CF career) and get it straightened out!


----------



## SOES_vet

Gooner said:
			
		

> So, my question is does this mean they have already chosen the group and are working on the medicals for them only OR do they setup medicals for everyone they are thinking of taking on and then whittle it down from there based on the medical results?



As it has been mentioned before, you should have had the medical exam before your fitness test. Well that is at least how they did it at my CFRC, so I am a bit unsure on what is happening. Regardless they do medicals for every application as part of the recruiting process, in the same way everyone needs to do the CFAT.



			
				Gooner said:
			
		

> I really want to get in and I worked hard to get ready for last Thursday. My score on the CFAT qualifies me for everything including officer. During my Step Test I did levels 3, 4, and 5 (started at Level 3 since I just turned 40), did 2x the number of pushups and situps required, my handgrip was 30 over the required number and I had the fitness tester tell me that I was in really good shape. I know for certain some people only qualified for their trade after writing the CFAT and some really struggled with the fitness test. If I didn't get in I am not sure what more I could have done to impress them.
> 
> Any thoughts on my situation is appreciated.



Your enthusiasm is important but from the sounds of it you have done basically everything you can do to impress. Also, just to reinforce what you probably already know, always make sure your resume and cover letter are always top notice. If things don't work out, you can always politely ask for the reasons why, and I am sure they can give you a straight forward no BS answer. But here is hoping.

Oh and of course, as it has been mentioned before, if you have questions or concerns with your file, it is always a good idea to call the CFRC. I found that a friendly and polite call every 10 days or so, checking on my file, was a good idea.


----------



## Gooner

Thanks lethalLemon and SOES_vet for your input. It is appreciated.


----------



## sramsay

Have been out of school for 31 years.When I decided to join the CF (middle of June),I went to the library and took out a GED book to brush up on my math.Also started on an exercise/strength training (on my own),can walk/run 2.4km in 22 minutes (have to be between 14:56-16:54).I can already do the setups.Took my CFAT on Aug.4,was so nervous didn't sleep well,ate no breakfast,plus you even could see my hands shake.When I went in to see the recruiter,he told me that I did "very good" and also told me my CFAT percentile score.By the way,I'm going in for a Cook.


----------



## Maxadia

sramsay said:
			
		

> Have been out of school for 31 years.



Kudos to you.


----------



## Fotoshark

Forgive me for what may be a stupid question but Id rather know before I head into chapters ... lol  Is the GED book flat out called GED ?

- T.


----------



## Romanmaz

Fotoshark said:
			
		

> Forgive me for what may be a stupid question but Id rather know before I head into chapters ... lol  Is the GED book flat out called GED ?
> 
> - T.


It will say "GED" on the cover of the book, possibly followed or preluded by other words...... ;D


----------



## Nostix

Fotoshark said:
			
		

> Forgive me for what may be a stupid question but Id rather know before I head into chapters ... lol  Is the GED book flat out called GED ?
> 
> - T.



http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/home/search/?keywords=GED&pageSize=12


----------



## Fotoshark

Thank you for the quick responses.  Looks like Im shoppin tomorrow lol

Greatly appreciated!

- T.


----------



## British Army

This was my attempt at objectivity, it may save you wading through reams of posts on this subject:

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/70626/post-985380.html#msg985380


----------



## Fotoshark

Well I did manage a successful trip from Chapters today.  They only had 1 GED book in stock at the location closest to me (a MASSIVE bible thickness size one at that lol) given it was cheaper than the book I did end up with (kind of funny... lol) none of the ged for dummies etc were in stock.  HOWEVER ...  I did find a gem of a book that some others may actually find helpful!

It is called ... The Comprehensive Guide to Canadian Military, Border Services, Corrections and Security Exams

Looks like this ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





It might be of some great help to some nervous test takers including myself.  Made by these guys www.publicserviceprep.com  I spent about $50 on it sadly to find it was about $30ish on chapters website but then again I like having what I paid for in my hands at the time of purchase so it's not that bad especially if it does end up bein of great help.

Hope this helps some others!

- T.


----------



## Devonm123

Does anybody know a way to get their CFAT score after you are enrolled, just curious.


----------



## reboog

Devonm123 said:
			
		

> Does anybody know a way to get their CFAT score after you are enrolled, just curious.



If you ask a recruiter nicely enough, he *may* give you your CFAT percentile.


----------



## Romanmaz

reboog said:
			
		

> If you ask a recruiter nicely enough, he *may* give you your CFAT percentile.


If that doesn't work and you have some spare time try this-


> In Canada, the Access to Information Act allows citizens to demand records from federal bodies. The act came into force in 1983, under the Pierre Trudeau government, permitting Canadians to retrieve information from government files, establishing what information could be accessed, mandating timelines for response.[5] Any exceptions to that right of access (i.e. information that is not disclosed) is limited and specific. That means that government departments cannot simply refuse to disclose whole documents or series of documents. This is enforced by the Information Commissioner of Canada.
> 
> In general, the types of information that can be exempted from disclosure include: information that could affect federal - provincial relations; information provided to the federal government in confidence by other governments; information affecting the safety and security of individuals; information that belongs to third party private sector companies; solicitor - client privilege and information that, if disclosed, could undermine the operations of government. This is not an exhaustive list.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_in_Canada#Federal


----------



## SheRa011

i'm curious what the process is regarding rewriting the cfat.  i can read from threads here that some have rewritten it.  but the forces.ca website said that they do not have to let us rewrite.  so what is the determining factor(s) to re write?

has this been covered in other threads?  i searched but did not find this particular perspective.  Your opinions are welcome.


----------



## PMedMoe

SheRa011 said:
			
		

> i'm curious what the process is regarding rewriting the cfat.  i can read from threads here that some have rewritten it.  but the forces.ca website said that they do not have to let us rewrite.  so what is the determining factor(s) to re write?



Here's a for instance:  You write the CFAT and score low on math.  You go out and take a math course, return to the CFRC with the certificate from said course and they _may_ let you rewrite.


----------



## TiredofSitting

Fotoshark said:
			
		

> Well I did manage a successful trip from Chapters today.  They only had 1 GED book in stock at the location closest to me (a MASSIVE bible thickness size one at that lol) given it was cheaper than the book I did end up with (kind of funny... lol) none of the ged for dummies etc were in stock.  HOWEVER ...  I did find a gem of a book that some others may actually find helpful!
> 
> It is called ... The Comprehensive Guide to Canadian Military, Border Services, Corrections and Security Exams
> 
> Looks like this ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It might be of some great help to some nervous test takers including myself.  Made by these guys www.publicserviceprep.com  I spent about $50 on it sadly to find it was about $30ish on chapters website but then again I like having what I paid for in my hands at the time of purchase so it's not that bad especially if it does end up bein of great help.
> 
> Hope this helps some others!
> 
> - T.



I've been trying to order this book, but it's no longer available through Chapters. I've tried finding it elsewhere but am having no luck. Any idea where I could get a copy? Want to sell yours


----------



## Eastcoaster03

TiredofSitting said:
			
		

> I've been trying to order this book, but it's no longer available through Chapters. I've tried finding it elsewhere but am having no luck. Any idea where I could get a copy? Want to sell yours



Good luck finding the book and don't forget to try out websites online as well such as math.com and googling spatial tests usually can get you some practice ones you can try that might help out.


----------



## Fotoshark

TiredofSitting said:
			
		

> I've been trying to order this book, but it's no longer available through Chapters. I've tried finding it elsewhere but am having no luck. Any idea where I could get a copy? Want to sell yours



I can check to see if the chapters I found it in has another copy but I think I grabbed the last one.  Send me a pm with ur email address as I dont think I can PM u it states "guest"

- T.


----------



## TiredofSitting

Fotoshark said:
			
		

> I can check to see if the chapters I found it in has another copy but I think I grabbed the last one.  Send me a pm with ur email address as I dont think I can PM u it states "guest"
> 
> - T.



I just sent you an email through the site, hopefully I did it right. Thanks for getting back to me, I appreciate it!


----------



## Animatronic Fireman

Check Amazon.ca

I was considering buying it at one point but didn't.  I think I saw it there.


----------



## TiredofSitting

Animatronic Fireman said:
			
		

> Check Amazon.ca
> 
> I was considering buying it at one point but didn't.  I think I saw it there.



I tried there as well with no luck....I'll keep looking. Thanks for the help!


----------



## tholmes7

I wrote my CFAT today. I was happy to find out that I qualified to be an Officer in the CF!!! However, I was under the assumption that I would receive a list of officer trades that I qualify for.  When I asked the recruiter if I scored high enough for my requested trade she said that as of this summer the CF no longer uses the CFAT for different trades. It is now a pass/fail? Has anyone else heard the same?


----------



## jparkin

I don't think they were ever giving out lists of trades you are eligible for after completing your CFAT. We were told as a group that everyone passed the test. I just assumed that meant that everyone scored high enough for their chosen occupation. In my interview though, I was told that my CFAT scores qualified me for all positions within the forces. Don't know if that helps but that's what I was told. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable members of these forums who would know though.
Jonathan


----------



## DogFighting101

I was also pulled aside after my CFAT, scores where high enough to "qualify" for all occupations of the CF, although he didn't list any specific trades that would better suite me, he mentioned I was eligible for RMC. I opted to go as NCM since I'm more of a hands on guy and the trades of choice were a pation of mine. One of the candidates with me during the test on the other hand was told from which trades he could choose from, as his scores where below what he needed for his trade choices, maybe they only give you the choices if you score lower then needed?


----------



## shogun506

To anyone who can help - is the aptitude test used strictly as a threshold to determine whether a person can do a trade or is it also used to rank people as they apply for a trade? I ask this because I went in to hand in all of my final documents today and book my aptitude test but was told I don't need to. I wrote the test when I joined at 17 as an infantry reservist and they said it meets the score needed to be an officer so I don't need to redo it. If it's a threshold deal, that's fine with me. On the other hand, I'm applying to a very competitive trade and I would like to be as competitive as possible. If these tests are ranked and used to select from potential applicants, I know I could now achieve a much higher score after spending 5 years in university and therefore would like to rewrite it. So is it just a threshold or is there some degree of ranking here?


----------



## JorgSlice

shogun506 said:
			
		

> To anyone who can help - is the aptitude test used strictly as a threshold to determine whether a person can do a trade or is it also used to rank people as they apply for a trade? I ask this because I went in to hand in all of my final documents today and book my aptitude test but was told I don't need to. I wrote the test when I joined at 17 as an infantry reservist and they said it meets the score needed to be an officer so I don't need to redo it. If it's a threshold deal, that's fine with me. On the other hand, I'm applying to a very competitive trade and I would like to be as competitive as possible. If these tests are ranked and used to select from potential applicants, I know I could now achieve a much higher score after spending 5 years in university and therefore would like to rewrite it. So is it just a threshold or is there some degree of ranking here?



They told you that your scores meet the trade requirement and there is no need to rewrite it.

Your answer: There's no need to rewrite it.


----------



## shogun506

JorgSlice said:
			
		

> They told you that your scores meet the trade requirement and there is no need to rewrite it.
> 
> Your answer: There's no need to rewrite it.



That doesn't answer the question - do you know more than just hearsay as to whether the tests are ranked or not?


----------



## CaOnLo

I believe the aptitude is used as a component in comparing applicants. There is a threshold/minimum that must be passed, then the score is used as one of several tools to evaluate and compare applicants for service in the Canadian Forces.

 Please note that your aptitude score will likely not be directly compared to another competitor's aptitude score, but will be part of an overall score from all testing components. Some components include: Interview, Education, Extra curricular activities (volunteering). This overall score is what I believe is compared between applicants. 

 I think if you already have met the aptitude minimum score, the recruiters may be hesitant to let you write the aptitude again, as you have essentially already passed that component of testing. Usually applicants rewrite an aptitude test when their score is below the threshold for the trade they are applying to, or transferring to a new trade.

 My recommendation for you is to focus on the other testing components to ensure you have the highest overall score possible. If you really would like to rewrite the aptitude test you would have to ask your recruiter, and explain that your education has been upgraded and you assume your aptitude score will improve. The recruiter will either say yes or no. Understand if you do not get the answer you like, tough luck, but you already have a passing score for your trade. Therefore what ever happens work to improve your overall score.

 Of course ask a recruiter any questions you may have, as there is a reason I used phrases such: I believe, I think... A payed recruiter has a job to answer these inquires. Make them earn their money, which I think is from taxpayers. So make them earn our money. 

My  :2c:


----------



## Danny_C

Keep in mind that if you score lower on the second attempt it overwrites your original test. They don't take the better of the two but the most recent.


----------



## medicineman

The part of the aptitude test you passed at the officer level would have been the "Holy crap there's only 20 minutes to answer 80 questions" test - it's a threshold pass fail.  The other aptitude is for NCM trades, unless things have changed recently, and not for officer classifications.  Different kettle of fish.  Don't overthink it.

MM


----------



## shogun506

medicineman said:
			
		

> The part of the aptitude test you passed at the officer level would have been the "Holy crap there's only 20 minutes to answer 80 questions" test - it's a threshold pass fail.  The other aptitude is for NCM trades, unless things have changed recently, and not for officer classifications.  Different kettle of fish.  Don't overthink it.
> 
> MM



I dunno what you mean by this because when I was a reservist I was an NCM and now I'm applying as a reg.force officer in a different trade, so it's all the same CFAT. Either way I have to swing by the building Monday anyway so I'm going to ask the recruiter then. Just wanted to post on here beforehand in case they were just saying it's strictly a threshold so they could avoid the extra hassle. It just seems illogical to me that they would not use something like a readily available aptitude test score as a factor to rank a candidate when grad schools, corporations, hell even the RCMP use them (I'm not taking any chances with this application).


----------



## medicineman

When I originally applied many moons ago, I applied ROTP.  I did the CFAT - which was for us the basic psychometric tests where you had all the rapid calculations, word associations, spatial orientation, etc.  After, I did a language aptitude assessment and then the medical.  There was a score on there that was either pass or fail.  2 out of 12 of us made it through to the medical.  Fast forward a couple of years - reapplied as an NCM.  First part was waived because I'd already taken it and passed at the offficer standard within a certain time frame.  The next tests were for the various trades aptitudes.

There were no classification specific aptitude tests for the officers aside from Aircrew selection - I was interviewed based on what my choices were as far as classifications and the officers made suggestions about what they thought I should do or what they thought I might be suited to do.  When I reapplied as an NCM, because I had some university, they tried to nudge me back towards some officer classifications - but those were based solely on my medical category, not on any test I'd written.  

They'll assess you in BMOQ and CAP for the stuff they're really worried about - abilities to learn, adapt and lead under stress...stuff that's a tad harder to predict by colouring dots on a piece of paper.

MM


----------



## McBlairRson

Hi,
I am grade 12 and preparing for my aptitude test coming up in the first week May.(applied for ROTP) Regarding the vocab part of the test, what can i do get a high mark in that section? People who have taken it says the vocab is the hardest part since they have never heard of them before. This really got me worried. Plus officers have to get higher marks to qualify for any position.

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Maxadia

Do high amounts of reading several years before taking the test.

Seriously, there's not much you can do on the short term for the vocabulary.  A lot of it has to do with your understanding of the language.  There might be some vocabulary building exercises, but for the most part, I would think that practicing spatial ability exercises (like the test examples where you have to take an unfolded pattern and pick the correct shape) and brushing up on math skills would be the most helpful.

I did very on vocab and spatial, and had 6 wrong on the math portion (which I thought I aced).  I can only assume that I made some stupid mistakes doing the math part (plus I found that to be the hardest one to finish with lots of time left to go back over questions)


----------



## McBlairRson

I have already taken it and they told me I qualified for all positions in NCM but did not qualify for officer. Which i want to get in. Since then i ready and started memorizing vocabulary (still now). Its just that no matter how much i do it i still feel I'm not ready. According to the Sgt who talked to me, he said my vocab killed my average...and i need to increase it by at least 6% to qualify for officer.


----------



## Jarnhamar

McBlairRson said:
			
		

> I have already taken it and they told me I qualified for all positions in NCM but did not qualify for officer. Which i want to get in. Since then i ready and started memorizing vocabulary (still now). Its just that no matter how much i do it i still feel I'm not ready. According to the Sgt who talked to me, he said my vocab killed my average...and i need to increase it by at least 6% to qualify for officer.



Hummmmm, qualified for all NCM positions but no officer ones huh


----------



## Maxadia

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Hummmmm, qualified for all NCM positions but no officer ones huh



Yeah, that sounds a little unusual.


----------



## jwtg

McBlairRson said:
			
		

> I have already taken it and they told me I qualified for all positions in NCM but did not qualify for officer. Which i want to get in. Since then i ready and started memorizing vocabulary (still now). Its just that no matter how much i do it i still feel I'm not ready. According to the Sgt who talked to me, he said my vocab killed my average...and i need to increase it by at least 6% to qualify for officer.


A good way to improve your vocabulary is to read books.  Long books with big words.  Your English skills will also improve if you habitually employ proper grammar, syntax, punctuation and capitalization.

Here would be a good place to practice.


----------



## Jarnhamar

RDJP said:
			
		

> Yeah, that sounds a little unusual.



Caught that too eh?


----------



## JoBo

This helped me a great deal. It's excellent training.

http://freerice.com

It has about 60 or so levels. It starts easy and gets pretty difficult by the mid thirties. You can take pride in knowing every correct answer helps to end hunger. Best of luck!


----------



## Maxadia

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Caught that too eh?



I'm just an applicant, but something about that doesn't sound correct - or it's really biased against NCMs.


----------



## The_Falcon

RDJP said:
			
		

> I'm just an applicant, but something about that doesn't sound correct - or it's really biased against NCMs.



Sounds like they are slagging Officers


----------



## The_Falcon

Your CFAT score is one component of your overall MP (Military Potential) Score, which is assigned by your MCC and includes how well you did in your interview, education, job knowledge, CFAT and few other criteria.  You won't be told your MP score.  Only advised it is not competitive and what you can do to improve it.  Your CFAT score you are stuck with since you qualified whatever it is you applied for.  Waivers for a retest are only granted if you did not qualify for a selected occupation, or you applying for a new occupation and you need a higher score to do so.


----------



## Gulruthina

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Your CFAT score is one component of your overall MP (Military Potential) Score, which is assigned by your MCC and includes how well you did in your interview, education, job knowledge, CFAT and few other criteria.  You won't be told your MP score.  Only advised it is not competitive and what you can do to improve it.  Your CFAT score you are stuck with since you qualified whatever it is you applied for.  Waivers for a retest are only granted if you did not qualify for a selected occupation, or you applying for a new occupation and you need a higher score to do so.



Does previous civilian experience that relates to the occupation you have applied for counts towards your Military Potential Score?


----------



## Jarnhamar

How exactly does one raise their vocabulary 6%?  That's fairly vague of the recruiting sgt...

Vocabular isn't something you can really take a crash course in, it's developed slowly over time.  I find it very hard to believe someone can meet the requirements for all NCM trades yet not make a single officer one.


----------



## MKos

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> How exactly does one raise their vocabulary 6%?  That's fairly vague of the recruiting sgt...
> 
> Vocabular isn't something you can really take a crash course in, it's developed slowly over time.  I find it very hard to believe someone can meet the requirements for all NCM trades yet not make a single officer one.



The second time I rewrote my eCFAT, (ROTP 2012), I was told I missed the ROTP/Officer cutoff by 5 percent...When I rewrote it, I raised my overall score up 8 percent...Whatever that means.

Anyways, study hard, and try to think outside the box, especially in spatial, reading I agree was the hardest part, but their isn't much you can do to become a vocab whiz, a week before your CFAT.

GOOD LUCK


----------



## The_Falcon

Gulruthina said:
			
		

> Does previous civilian experience that relates to the occupation you have applied for counts towards your Military Potential Score?



Possibly, depends on the occupation and whether or not you were able to articulate that experience to the MCC who interviewed and assessed you.


----------



## The_Falcon

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> How exactly does one raise their vocabulary 6%?  That's fairly vague of the recruiting sgt...
> 
> Vocabular isn't something you can really take a crash course in, it's developed slowly over time.  I find it very hard to believe someone can meet the requirements for all NCM trades yet not make a single officer one.



You need to a score in a higher percentile, is what the recruiter was trying to get across.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Ah that makes more sense.


----------



## The_Falcon

As for making the cut off for NCM vs OFF, every individual trade has a certain score and percentile in each category that must be reached (in some cases multiple categories).  For Officer there is no distinction between occupations, you either qualify officer or you don't, and the cut off score is set fairly high.


----------



## Maxadia

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> As for making the cut off for NCM vs OFF, every individual trade has a certain score and percentile in each category that must be reached (in some cases multiple categories).  For Officer there is no distinction between occupations, you either qualify officer or you don't, and the cut off score is set fairly high.



So it IS possible to score just under for Officer, but high enough to score for ALL NCM trades?  I figured there'd be some overlap somewhere.


----------



## aesop081

You write the test and you either qualify for what you chose or you didn't.

The mechanics of it doesn't matter.


----------



## The_Falcon

RDJP said:
			
		

> So it IS possible to score just under for Officer, but high enough to score for ALL NCM trades?  I figured there'd be some overlap somewhere.



For the most part the answer to your question is yes.   The way the scoring is done is a little convoluted, which is why CFRC's don't tell you your score.


----------



## shogun506

So after visiting the recruiter today and mentioning my concerns, I heard some good news and can also now settle some myths here. I asked to redo my test because I did not feel it indicated my current aptitude for the job, having been done ~7 years ago. I told him I understand there is a threshold that must be met, however I am looking to not only meet but exceed the requirements in order to be competitive. He said ok no problem, you just need to sign a waiver and they can get it rebooked. Once we got into his office, he took a look at my aptitude test and said "wow... you don't want to redo this test"  :nod: he wouldn't tell me the score but it turns out I was a pretty smart little boy. Anyway, he went on to tell me about the judgments that are used to determine whether you're chosen for a placement and that the aptitude test is ranked and used as a comparison tool.

Things to take away from this:
A) YES aptitude tests are ranked and therefore, although thresholds exist, it is in your best interest to exceed them and perform at your best.
B) You can probably talk a recruiter into letting you redo the CFAT if you did passed the threshold but did badly and some time has passed.


----------



## PMedMoe

shogun506 said:
			
		

> Things to take away from this:
> A) YES aptitude tests are ranked and therefore, although thresholds exist, it is in your best interest to exceed them and perform at your best.
> B) You can probably talk a recruiter into letting you redo the CFAT if you did passed the threshold but did badly and some time has passed.



I'll buy the A, but not the B.  Don't lead people to believe they can go rewrite the CFAT whenever they want.


----------



## PuckChaser

I know someone who failed (didn't qualify for the trade he wanted) the CFAT, and was told you can rewrite but they have to get permission from higher. That's typically the final rewrite you ever get, no third chance.


----------



## PMedMoe

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I know someone who failed (didn't qualify for the trade he wanted) the CFAT, and was told you can rewrite but they have to get permission from higher. That's typically the final rewrite you ever get, no third chance.



I think they'll also consider it if you have proof of taking a course to improve your math or English vocabulary.


----------



## The_Falcon

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I think they'll also consider it if you have proof of taking a course to improve your math or English vocabulary.



Correct, rewrite waivers are not guaranteed, period, full stop.



			
				shogun506 said:
			
		

> A) YES aptitude tests are ranked and therefore, although thresholds exist, it is in your best interest to exceed them and perform at your best.
> B) You can probably talk a recruiter into letting you redo the CFAT if you did passed the threshold but did badly and some time has passed.



A) the CFAT is one part of the evaluation
B) No you can't. First an MCC or an MCC qualified Recruiter, can only RECOMMEND to the UPSO that you be granted a waiver to rewrite the CFAT.  There are very specific criteria that need to be sastified before the UPSO will sign off on the waiver.  Simply wanting a do over to get a better score is not good enough.  

Stay in your lanes.


----------



## Mushroom

shogun506 said:
			
		

> B) You can probably talk a recruiter into letting you redo the CFAT if you did passed the threshold but did badly and some time has passed.



Side note, since your never actually told your score there is no way of knowing wether you just barely or exceeded the requirements for your trade, if you pass be happy and move on, there are better ways to make your application stand out than retaking your CFAT with hopes of a better score It's after all only one part of the selection process.


----------



## shogun506

To clarify - what I mean by "B" is that there is a possibility you might be able to talk the recruiter into letting you redo the test. I'm not saying that it's official and you must be able to do it. I'm saying that as per my experience AND as per the regulations found on the CF site, which state that if you do not qualify for your trade you may retake the test once after 3 months. To take the test a 3rd time, proof of significant academic upgrading such as post-secondary education must be presented.

While it doesn't explicitly say that you can redo it to upgrade your score after doing post-secondary education what I'm saying is try to make a case. Worse that will happen is they say no.


----------



## RDY2SRV12

Mushroom said:
			
		

> Side note, since your *never actually told your score* there is no way of knowing wether you just barely or exceeded the requirements for your trade, if you pass be happy and move on, there are better ways to make your application stand out than retaking your CFAT with hopes of a better score It's after all only one part of the selection process.



Never say never, I was told mine, not sure if they meant to, but I was present while the Recruiting Sgt. was speaking to the Career officer about it.


----------



## The_Falcon

shogun506 said:
			
		

> To clarify - what I mean by "B" is that there is a possibility you might be able to talk the recruiter into letting you redo the test. I'm not saying that it's official and you must be able to do it. I'm saying that as per my experience AND as per the regulations found on the CF site, which state that if you do not qualify for your trade you may retake the test once after 3 months. To take the test a 3rd time, proof of significant academic upgrading such as post-secondary education must be presented.
> 
> While it doesn't explicitly say that you can redo it to upgrade your score after doing post-secondary education what I'm saying is try to make a case. Worse that will happen is they say no.



To clarify I WORK in recruiting, so I actually know what the policies and procedures are for CFAT rewrites, which are a little more in detail than what is available to the public.  Re-read the site guidelines regarding posting information based on conjecture and  what you think you know.


----------



## brian8225

Has anyone used this site and have feedback on their materials? http://forcesready.ca/

I got a call this week to continue through the process for pilot, and have a month to get my act together to write this thing. I think I'll be fine, but I want to take some time to study just to be sure. They have a practice exam on there which was significantly harder than the one on forces.ca and I did well on it.

Alternative would be tracking down a GED book based on the CFAT thread, however I'm wondering if anyone has made use of this specific website to prepare?

Thanks.


----------



## Bluebulldog

IMO looks to me like a perfectly good waste of $50.

You either have a base level of knowlege / logic, or you do not. No amount of short term prepping will actually embed / impart any of same for any duration, unless you're of the University types who simply absorb - regurgitate, and then delete. You will however still require the base knowlege to work through the CFAT.

Nice slick looking website though.........snake oil in a different bottle.


----------



## KanD

Personally, I would not spend money preparing for a test that evaluates basic skills that your taxes have already paid for. You already possess all the basic skills that you require to ace the test (simply from attending high school). This is what I would recommend:

1. Save your money;
2. Read the entire CFAT FAQ on this site (http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html);
3. Get a GED textbook from your public library;
5. Use a site like math.com or http://www.kutasoftware.com/free.html (the latter has a million worksheets you can practice);
4. Practice your skills with hours worth of testing through the Public Service Commission practice tests: http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/psc-tests-cfp/psc-tests-cfp-eng.htm

My  :2c:


----------



## Habs

It's not hard enough to blow 50 bucks on that...

It's not easy - don't get me wrong, but it's not impossible either.

Brush up on your math, maybe read a book that uses some advanced vocabulary. I printed off some math work sheets and did them, and continued to until I knew how to do all the basic math stuff that is easily forgotten.


----------



## armyguy1

As several people here have stated it is a waste of money, if that is the case then I did waste my money on this site.

I will say that the practice tests that they have are challenging and have gotten me to expland my mind a bit when looking at a question, so for that alone I feel as though it was worth the money for me. However, the solutions and tuitoring they provide is not the best in my opinion and I have resorted to google to find explanations on how to solve math problems or whatever I may be struggling with.

If you are fresh out of high school then I don't see this to be a problem, or if you have taken math in university. However, I graduated from high school 6 years ago and in university never took a math class. On top of that I finished grade 12 math when I was in grade 11, AND always used a calculator for everything. These practice tests along with google searches for explainations on how to work through math have proven to be extremely helpful to me. For example, when I took the forcesready.ca free practice test I did horribly, and after a week of studying about 2 hours a day I have improved significantly.

For me it has been worth the money, the way I am looking at it is like this... the CFAT is the gateway to an amazing career and for that I was willing to spend the money. It has just been so long since I have had to think critically using math and this has proven to be extremely helpful shaking off the rust and relearning even simple techniques when working with math or understanding pattern recognition.


----------



## brian8225

I graduated from high school 11 years ago. $50 is trivial to spend in terms of investment towards a career. The practice exam on that site had a question around sequential prime numbers which isn't something I've even thought about in roughly 14 years (yikes) so I found it got my brain going in a different direction.

If the practice exams are valuable, I think that's worth the $50 alone. I'm assuming I'll need to score pretty much 100% on this to have a chance at progressing given what I've applied for and the amount of people competing for a spot.

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## armyguy1

mind if i ask what you are applying for?

And best of luck to you


----------



## fraserdw

Wished I had thought of this!  What a great deal, a website, a bunch of old CTAT questions and watch the money roll in!  Wonder how they laid hands on the CTAT questions......hmmmmmmmm?


----------



## KanD

brian8225 said:
			
		

> I graduated from high school 11 years ago. $50 is trivial to spend in terms of investment towards a career. The practice exam on that site had a question around sequential prime numbers which isn't something I've even thought about in roughly 14 years (yikes) so I found it got my brain going in a different direction.
> 
> If the practice exams are valuable, I think that's worth the $50 alone. I'm assuming I'll need to score pretty much 100% on this to have a chance at progressing given what I've applied for and the amount of people competing for a spot.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.



$50 will also get you five one-on-one sessions with a college level tutor. Something to consider?
Best of success


----------



## Jarnhamar

Bluebulldog said:
			
		

> IMO looks to me like a perfectly good waste of $50.
> 
> You either have a base level of knowlege / logic, or you do not. No amount of short term prepping will actually embed / impart any of same for any duration, unless you're of the University types who simply absorb - regurgitate, and then delete. You will however still require the base knowlege to work through the CFAT.
> 
> Nice slick looking website though.........snake oil in a different bottle.



I disagree.

Sometimes all you need is a little refresher.  

A good friend of mine, MCpl, had a CT for the regular force.  Air force tech job. He's not a dumb guy, it's just been a while since he was in school.  He had the CFAT coming up and we told him to study online or pay for one of the practice tests. He never bothered to get around doing it. Took the CFAT and failed the math portion "by a couple of points".
Would the $50 have made the difference?  Maybe, but now he's back on class A struggling to bring in money when he could have had a real chance of landing a full time job for at least 3 years, probably 20.


----------



## Bluebulldog

ObedientiaZelum

Fair enough. But in a round about way, you made my point.

Your friend missed on the math by "a couple of points" which he may have benefited from by getting a little refresher. 

Said refresher on math can be done on many other sites, and by other methods not requiring putting up $50 to do so.

The Public Service Commission of Canada actually has tests available on their website 

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/centres/faq-eng.htm#toc10

Brian was looking for feedback. He's received that in spades. It's entirely up to him whether he realizes value out of laying down his $50 or not.

I am also firmly of the belief that in many cases, your (MCpl friend excluded), many hopeful applicants who are just out of school may wind up laying money down for nothing in the hopes that it will boost their scores, when they probably already possess the body of knowledge required.

Cheers.


----------



## dogger1936

And remember...you don't have to join the army to be a part of it!

http://forcesready.ca/2011/07/31/you-dont-have-to-join-the-army-to-be-a-part-of-it/


----------



## Habs

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> And remember...you don't have to join the army to be a part of it!
> 
> http://forcesready.ca/2011/07/31/you-dont-have-to-join-the-army-to-be-a-part-of-it/



What the hell?   :facepalm:

Yeah, that site is *definitely* worth the money. /sarcasm


----------



## therickiness

Agree not worth it. I took the test while in high school and passed for officers for this year. I was pretty stoned in high school. XD I am sure you're brighter than me in HS.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Bluebulldog said:
			
		

> ObedientiaZelum
> 
> Fair enough. But in a round about way, you made my point.
> 
> Your friend missed on the math by "a couple of points" which he may have benefited from by getting a little refresher.
> 
> Said refresher on math can be done on many other sites, and by other methods not requiring putting up $50 to do so.
> 
> The Public Service Commission of Canada actually has tests available on their website
> 
> http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/centres/faq-eng.htm#toc10
> 
> Brian was looking for feedback. He's received that in spades. It's entirely up to him whether he realizes value out of laying down his $50 or not.
> 
> I am also firmly of the belief that in many cases, your (MCpl friend excluded), many hopeful applicants who are just out of school may wind up laying money down for nothing in the hopes that it will boost their scores, when they probably already possess the body of knowledge required.
> 
> Cheers.



For sure bro.  dropping $50 when you could use a little hard work effort and searching to find something free on the internet IS a waste of money. 

Someone just out of school will have a way better chance of passing one of these than someone like me. I'm certain I'd fail the CFAT if I sat down in 2 minutes and tried it out.  Give me a day to brush up on my math and I'd rock the test.

I've always taken a big interest in recruiting. Getting people in and why they fail.

Without a doubt the biggest reason I've seen is people not putting that extra little bit of effort in.  
Someone *thinks* they can do 19 push ups no problem- they do 17 or 18 and fail because the tester didn't count 5 or 6 of them.
Someone *thinks* they can pass the CFAT easily and when they sit down and see BEDMAS and their mind goes blank.

I wonder if we could find some links to free websites that help prep people for CFAT type tests and make it a sticky in the recruiting forum here?


----------



## seawolf

I just wrote the CFAT at the beginning of the month.

I just got one of those "dummies" books from amazon.ca that covered all the American Armed Forces tests (Officer Candidate Tests for Dummies) and all the stuff in it minus the general science knowledge part. Think it cost me like $15 or something.

Very useful and a lot less then $50. The CFAT really isnt that hard. I'm just 30 years old and it had been 15 years since i was doing gr 10 math.


----------



## bcbarman

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Without a doubt the biggest reason I've seen is people not putting that extra little bit of effort in.
> Someone *thinks* they can do 19 push ups no problem- they do 17 or 18 and fail because the tester didn't count 5 or 6 of them.
> Someone *thinks* they can pass the CFAT easily and when they sit down and see BEDMAS  and their mind goes blank.
> 
> I wonder if we could find some links to free websites that help prep people for CFAT type tests and make it a sticky in the recruiting forum here?



 Brackets, Exponents, Divide, Multiply, Add, Subtract....  That took me a few minutes to scroll through the mental Rolodex


----------



## jrst

I can't speak much to that site, since I didn't look a lot through it, however...

I just wrote my CFAT a week and a half ago, and the biggest shock to me was that everyone else I wrote with didn't know it was going to be harder than the practice test that's available.  So based on that, you've already done the right step by being here and knowing that you have to study something. 
I definitely did not have an extra $50 (or really anything) to buy a practice book or the online resources of some websites.  I did find a LOT of practice tests online for free.  Some of them have parts that aren't on the test (my best math test I found had graphs), but you just ignore those parts and do the rest.  Keep in mind, sometimes they are hidden in groups of tests called psychometric tests.
http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/psychotests.htm was my favorite site.  It times you and gives you feed back, as well as solutions when you're done, and helps practice writing on a computer.  I passed for Infantry Officer no problems using all free resources.

Best of luck!


----------



## Chang

The owner of that website seems to be confused about how the CF works. There are many references to the regular force being the army, the navy and the air force not being part of the regular force, and the reserves not being part of the military at all. I'd be highly skeptical of the study material they're offering on that site.


----------



## aesop081

Talk to this guy, i heard he does wonders:

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/43026.50.html


----------



## cemalyukselir

Hey Guys Im really new to this forum here , i only had one post that was about it. 

I would like to ask you guys few questions regarding CFAT and Trades being open/closed.

Anyway. I  did my Aptitude Test on June 7th.2012 and unluckly the personel told me that i couldnt  qualify for Reserves Infantry. Biggest mistake i made was taking the test when i was really sick , i know i  should have re-scheduled it but i seriously thought i did good enough to  qualify. Personel told me i scored the highest on Verbal and Spatial ability unluckly my math was a little poor she said. My Old math Teacher Will be helping with the Math , i will for sure be passing the math portion of the test this time. 

As this being solved , i spoke with the Sergeant at the Reserve unit (Loyal Edmonton Regiment) i been in touch with him since December, He knows how serious i am about getting the spot. Anyway few days ago when i spoke to him , he told me the infantry trade now is closed and it will be closed atleast till January he said. When i asked " So i have to wait until January to apply and cant apply this Sept?" than again he said " you gotta check back with me on Sept to see if its open or not than again i mean ATLEAST Jan". i seriously need an answer about this , because this basically leaves me to a waiting time of another 5 to 6 months. Im pretty confiused and stressed about it , because i was hoping i can apply on September and pass the Test this time and qualify for Infantry. Please i really want to hear What you guys have to say about this. 

And for the Aptitude Test. When i was researching about it way before i got to do the test , things i seen about it never freaked me out..but math portion of it DID..when i posted something on the facebook page of CF regarding the CFAT , People told me its simple math i shouldnt worry about it and for Infantry i dont have to score really high and I am Hundred percent sure i did score atleast 30/60. Math portion of the test only got me struggled , the probelms i messed up mostly likely are  the long divions and fractions. Ill be honest im not so great with math..and i seriously need some advice before i see my teacher on September , Because if you guys can provide me with some information that i can use until September than while shes teaching me ill know much more and ill hopefully ace the test. Please guys and THANKS for taking your time to read over my post , forgive me if i made any mistakes on my grammar or spelling. Your Help means alot to me thanks once again people.


----------



## brihard

cemalyukselir said:
			
		

> Hey Guys Im really new to this forum here , i only had one post that was about it.
> 
> I would like to ask you guys few questions regarding CFAT and Trades being open/closed.
> 
> Anyway. I  did my Aptitude Test on June 7th.2012 and unluckly the personel told me that i couldnt  qualify for Reserves Infantry. Biggest mistake i made was taking the test when i was really sick , i know i  should have re-scheduled it but i seriously thought i did good enough to  qualify. Personel told me i scored the highest on Verbal and Spatial ability unluckly my math was a little poor she said. My Old math Teacher Will be helping with the Math , i will for sure be passing the math portion of the test this time.
> 
> As this being solved , i spoke with the Sergeant at the Reserve unit (Loyal Edmonton Regiment) i been in touch with him since December, He knows how serious i am about getting the spot. Anyway few days ago when i spoke to him , he told me the infantry trade now is closed and it will be closed atleast till January he said. When i asked " So i have to wait until January to apply and cant apply this Sept?" than again he said " you gotta check back with me on Sept to see if its open or not than again i mean ATLEAST Jan". i seriously need an answer about this , because this basically leaves me to a waiting time of another 5 to 6 months. Im pretty confiused and stressed about it , because i was hoping i can apply on September and pass the Test this time and qualify for Infantry. Please i really want to hear What you guys have to say about this.
> 
> And for the Aptitude Test. When i was researching about it way before i got to do the test , things i seen about it never freaked me out..but math portion of it DID..when i posted something on the facebook page of CF regarding the CFAT , People told me its simple math i shouldnt worry about it and for Infantry i dont have to score really high and I am Hundred percent sure i did score atleast 30/60. Math portion of the test only got me struggled , the probelms i messed up mostly likely are  the long divions and fractions. Ill be honest im not so great with math..and i seriously need some advice before i see my teacher on September , Because if you guys can provide me with some information that i can use until September than while shes teaching me ill know much more and ill hopefully ace the test. Please guys and THANKS for taking your time to read over my post , forgive me if i made any mistakes on my grammar or spelling. Your Help means alot to me thanks once again people.



Cemal,

All of this has already been answered on the Facebook group where you've asked the same questions. You won't get different or more authoritative answers than what I've seen people give you there already, including infantry reservists and those involved in recruiting.

The recruiting sergeant has told you you will be waiting til at least January. There is no person in the military or on this site who is better qualified to give you information about the hiring for the Loyal Edmonton Regiment than their own recruiter.

You already have a plan, and now you've been given timelines. Get the math tutoring, work on it, and when the Loyal Eddies are again hiring throw your name in the hat once more. But you've already been given all the advice that can be of use to you.


----------



## PrettyMaggie63

> i seriously thought i did good enough to  qualify


Unfortunately, it is not what you thought, it is what the RC thought that matters.



> because this basically leaves me to a waiting time of another 5 to 6 months


If you were told you would have to wait 5 or 6 months, then you will have to wait 5 or 6 months. This is not an unreasonable time frame in the application process.



> People told me its simple math i shouldnt worry about it and for Infantry i dont have to score really high and I am Hundred percent sure i did score atleast 30/60


"Simple math" as you put it is a basic life skill. IMHO, if someone is defending my country and my family, I would certainly hope they know more than 50%. Take the time frame you have been given and use it to improve your application. If, and I stress "if" you are given an opportunity for another try, aim for 100%, not just enough to "squeak by".


----------



## gcclarke

As well, I would suggest that you could use a bit of work on your written communication skills. Proper capitalization and punctuation is rather important. A little bit of effort can go a long way towards improving the legibility and comprehensibility of whatever you write.


----------



## C.Balogh

Hi! I know when you join the reserves you do your BMQ on weekends but do some people take the BMQ the same way regular force do?


----------



## AgentSmith

No, reservists do not go to St. Jean to do reg force BMQ. Some brigades might offer a full time BMQ course in the summer but it's only 4 weeks long. I'm not sure how long Naval reserve BMQ is.


----------



## C.Balogh

Okay thanks!


----------



## MikeL

RCN and RCAF Reservists do 13(?) weeks of BMQ in CFB Borden.  It's only the Army Reserve* that does it either on weekends in the fall or full time for a month in the summer.

*Not sure if the RCN and RCAF Reservists can do weekend BMQs or not,  I just know of the full time one in Borden.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> RCN and RCAF Reservists do 13(?) weeks of BMQ in CFB Borden.  It's only the Army Reserve* that does it either on weekends in the fall or full time for a month in the summer.
> 
> *Not sure if the RCN and RCAF Reservists can do weekend BMQs or not,  I just know of the full time one in Borden.



AFAIK Naval and Air Reserves do their training at CFLRS ST. JEAN..... no weekend or Army Reserve BMQ......

Naval Reserves seems hanged up on all those kit and quarters inspection times....Tried to get them to change that at the WB but not sure if they will go for it.....


----------



## Bluebulldog

When I did my BMQ in Hamilton on weekends in the fall of 2010 we had one or two folks who were from the HMCS Star.

Has that changed since then?


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Bluebulldog said:
			
		

> When I did my BMQ in Hamilton on weekends in the fall of 2010 we had one or two folks who were from the HMCS Star.
> 
> Has that changed since then?



WB was last fall, and they (HMCS STAR) were not pleased with the end product from that bmq....


----------



## Allgunzblazing

This is only wishful thinking on my part - I wish Army Reservists could also do their BMQ at St. Jean.


----------



## chrisf

If BMQ is the most signifigant thing in your career either reserve or regular force, it's a sad career.

You'll have plenty of opportunities to do plenty of other interesting or awesome things.


----------



## Sadukar09

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> RCN and RCAF Reservists do 13(?) weeks of BMQ in CFB Borden.  It's only the Army Reserve* that does it either on weekends in the fall or full time for a month in the summer.
> 
> *Not sure if the RCN and RCAF Reservists can do weekend BMQs or not,  I just know of the full time one in Borden.


There are also full time BMQ courses running with CG during the year.


----------



## brihard

Sadukar09 said:
			
		

> There are also full time BMQ courses running with CG during the year.



No they do not. They run one in the mid to late spring immediately prior to the public duties season and with the sole intention of being able to put drill monkeys on parade. CG exists as a bare skeleton organization inthe off season and, I can assure you, does not run BMQs.

This year there were also one or two full time reserve BMQs run in Meaford in the spring.


----------



## Bluebulldog

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> WB was last fall, and they (HMCS STAR) were not pleased with the end product from that bmq....



They must have elected to run candidates both years then, because indeed it was Fall 2010 when I did mine for the 2nd go round. BMQ1008.


----------



## Sadukar09

Brihard said:
			
		

> No they do not. They run one in the mid to late spring immediately prior to the public duties season and with the sole intention of being able to put drill monkeys on parade. CG exists as a bare skeleton organization inthe off season and, I can assure you, does not run BMQs.
> 
> This year there were also one or two full time reserve BMQs run in Meaford in the spring.



Alas, I am poorly informed.

This here shows the reason why reading more, posting less is a good philosophy.

Your point coincides on how some of my fellow recruits finished BMQ at the same time as my course, yet were sworn in three months later.


----------



## brihard

Sadukar09 said:
			
		

> Alas, I am poorly informed.
> 
> This here shows the reason why reading more, posting less is a good philosophy.
> 
> Your point coincides on how some of my fellow recruits finished BMQ at the same time as my course, yet were sworn in three months later.



Hot damn, a new guy who gets it! Good stuff. Enjoy CG.  >


----------



## Rcmpwarrior

Ive been reading the aptitude test thread on the website and i can't seem to find anything on what type of math, i know theres fractions, decimals, long division, is there anything else?


----------



## Allgunzblazing

There is a sample question paper on the CF website. 

One of the things I did to prepare for the aptitude test was this - 

a. 100 long division problems; 
b. 100 mutiplication problems;
c. 100 addition problems;
d. 100 subtration problems. 

In all these I used big numbers, often with decimals included. 

If you'd like more tips on the aptitude test, shoot me a PM. 

Cheers.


----------



## jrst

There are also sequences.  Like Allgunz said, there is a sample test on the CF website, but the actual test is harder than the practice one.


----------



## Allgunzblazing

Thanks jrst - forgot about those darn sequences! 

I can't stress enough - the aptitude test needs dedicated preparation. Some of my friends (who're in the CF) told me that "its a piece of cake". Thankfully, I filtered this advice they had given me  .


----------



## Good2Golf

Allgunzblazing said:
			
		

> I can't stress enough - the aptitude test needs dedicated preparation.



Probably a few of us wondering, "just what kind of dedicated preparation"?  ???


Regards
G2G


----------



## aesop081

Allgunzblazing said:
			
		

> I can't stress enough - the aptitude test needs dedicated preparation. Some of my friends (who're in the CF) told me that "its a piece of cake". Thankfully, I filtered this advice they had given me  .



I'm in the CF. It is a piece of cake.



			
				Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Probably a few of us wondering, "just what kind of dedicated preparation"?  ???



Indeed. All i knew is that there was a test that day but nothing about what was on it. Kids these days........


----------



## brian8225

I'm going to politely disagree with some of the comments in here. f you haven't been in high school for 10 years (me) it isn't a piece of cake. 

I grabbed a couple of GED prep books from the library for the math sections (thanks to advice on these boards) and they helped me out with the math section. That being said, I didn't blow my brains out and spent roughly 15 hours doing math problems from the GED books.

I wrote 2 weeks ago and qualified for my preferred trade, pilot. You don't get a score, just a yes/no, but I was told my math scores were exceptional. They wouldn't have been as good without preparing for this. Some prep is highly recommended and you'd be stupid not to prepare for it which is true for anything in life regardless of how awesome you think you are or how easy you think something is. The language section, there's really no way that I could see preparing for it. Spatial is on the fence, maybe some practice tests can help you there but really that's something you have or don't have.

I would rather score as high as I can given the level of competitiveness than just assume it is cake and squeak by or fail.


----------



## Good2Golf

brian8225 said:
			
		

> I'm going to politely disagree with some of the comments in here. f you haven't been in high school for 10 years (me) it isn't a piece of cake.
> 
> I grabbed a couple of GED prep books from the library for the math sections (thanks to advice on these boards) and they helped me out with the math section. That being said, I didn't blow my brains out and spent roughly 15 hours doing math problems from the GED books.
> 
> I wrote 2 weeks ago and qualified for my preferred trade, pilot. You don't get a score, just a yes/no, but I was told my math scores were exceptional. They wouldn't have been as good without preparing for this. Some prep is highly recommended and you'd be stupid not to prepare for it which is true for anything in life regardless of how awesome you think you are or how easy you think something is. The language section, there's really no way that I could see preparing for it. Spatial is on the fence, maybe some practice tests can help you there but really that's something you have or don't have.
> 
> I would rather score as high as I can given the level of competitiveness than just assume it is cake and squeak by or fail.



Perhaps you may have felt that way, but the CFAT is designed as a true "aptitude" test, not a 'knowledge," "achievement" or a "proficiency" test.  It was designed expressly to assess innate capability, upon which future learning in the CF would build by training and education upon one of a number of suitable bases of training and learning identified, in part, by analysis of the candidate's CFAT results. 

I'm sure that you felt more confident having done some GED review work, but I am also quite confident having been involved in development of a number of test currently in CF service (aptitude, knowledge, proficiency), that there is an extremely low statistical likelihood that "studying" for a CF aptitude type test will yield a quantifiable and demonstrable difference from not having "studied" for the test.  

Since you made reference to mathematics, I will note that some tests, while called "aptitude" tests, are not pure aptitude tests in the true definition sense of the word, but rather a blend of aptitude and knowledge assessment, SATs being a good example.  The CFAT, however, is not a hybrid like the SATs.

Regards
G2G


----------



## brian8225

I'm not sure studying is the right word or what was I was implying. Most math tests require some knowledge of arithmetic operations which aren't necessarily innate. 

Going through the GED book, there were problem types that I haven't touched in 15 years, so a refresher on how to do them was definitely helpful. I believe, based on anecdotal evidence of course , that becoming more familiar with the process of doing high school type math questions makes you better at doing them. Doing some high school math at least got my brain firing in the right direction. Being confident/prepared also helped me (again, anecdotal) and is probably correlated to scores in some capacity.

It is definitely not a knowledge dump, completely agree there, and someone who is good or bad at math will likely have correlating results. If 15 hours got me 1-2 extra points, great, if not, no loss to me other than some time. For me it's an easy cost/benefit decision, where the cost is just some time and effort, and the benefit was nil or a couple of points.

Long way of saying I don't see the harm in doing some practice questions when there is no real cost and only possible upside. I'd feel like an idiot if I went in cold and failed, or suggested to someone that they should go in cold and miss out on their goals.


----------



## Good2Golf

brian8225 said:
			
		

> Long way of saying I don't see the harm in doing some practice questions when there is no real cost and only possible upside. I'd feel like an idiot if I went in cold and failed, or suggested to someone that they should go in cold and miss out on their goals.



Absolutely, but so too should people manage unrealistic expectations thinking that studying certain material will help them perform significantly better on a test designed to identify the nature of their intrinsic aptitudes.


Regards
G2G


----------



## The_Falcon

As the bare minimum requirement for entry into the CF is completion of grade 10, the math portion is equivalent to grade 10 math.


----------



## Rcmpwarrior

Allgunzblazing said:
			
		

> There is a sample question paper on the CF website.
> 
> One of the things I did to prepare for the aptitude test was this -
> 
> a. 100 long division problems;
> b. 100 mutiplication problems;
> c. 100 addition problems;
> d. 100 subtration problems.
> 
> In all these I used big numbers, often with decimals included.
> 
> If you'd like more tips on the aptitude test, shoot me a PM.
> 
> Cheers.


I already wrote the test once a few months ago and i forget the questions (bummer) but i remember there was fractions, adding and subtracting anything else other than you said?


----------



## Trick

Tyler H said:
			
		

> I already wrote the test once a few months ago and i forget the questions (bummer) but i remember there was fractions, adding and subtracting anything else other than you said?



Just as a reminder to others, you're not allowed to talk about specifics of the test, especially not any questions. 

Basically, so long as you can do basic arithmetic (yes, including division) by hand, that's all you need to "study".


----------



## PeterL

It absolutely helps to review basic arithmetic operations and grade 10 algebra.

You will have to solve problems under a lot of pressure. It is true that some people are more analytical and their calculations will be smoother and quicker. But if you simply practice arithmetic you can acquire a better proficiency.

I have done advanced university-level mathematics, linear algebra, differentiation/integration etc. and still found the CFAT math to be a vicious little test. I briefly leafed through some online GED preparation material in advance but now regret not reviewing the fundamentals more thoroughly. I made the mistake of spending too much time on a few word problems and the panicked when I realized I had only a few precious minutes left. At this point, it's too late, your thoughts become too erratic to approach the problems with logic and precision. This is where the "aptitude" component of the CFAT is most evident. The Air Nav/Pilot types will do these calculations with little effort, regardless of preparation I imagine.

Beyond that, the spatial test and English proficiency are not something you can really prepare for. You have to be well-read (a cumulative process that spans your entire life) for the English and be able to assemble and rotate objects in your mind for the spatial, and these mental gymnastics cannot be learned either. These two combined will account for half of your score.

I passed for the trades I am interested in, but was not satisfied with the math score since I want to be able to apply for air-crew positions in the future, and I don't think they would allow me to write the test again without significant academic upgrading.

I probably can't reveal anything more specific.


----------



## Allgunzblazing

Hi guys, 

Please pardon the delay in responding to your comments. 

Tyler H: 

When I got a call for the aptitude test, I took a look at the sample question paper on the CF website and picked up books for every kind of questions. Say for example – sequences, spatial ability, basic arithmetic, etc. Vocabulary is something that can’t be improved in a short time. After doing a hundred odd problems of each type, my speed and accuracy were both up. For me, the old saying “practice makes perfect” seems to work. I don’t think I got a perfect score on the CFAT, but I knew I had done well. Plus, the Military Career Counsellor told me that I had qualified for every trade. I’m positive that if I hadn’t prepared, my score wouldn’t have been the same. 

Good2Golf and CDN Aviator:

The reason why I went overboard with my CFAT prep and put in “dedicated effort” was fear of the unknown, and the fact that job openings seem to be fewer every fiscal. I wanted to everything possible so as to get a good score. At least this way, if I hadn’t done well, I’d have known that I did put in my best effort. I’ve studied subjects like Statistics and Operations Research at the graduate level, but the ability to do mental arithmetic is something that gets rusty if one is out of practice. (In my case at least  ). 

Cheers and all the best to those in the recruiting process.


----------



## cryptic

Does anyone want to study together?  I am terrible at math and haven't been in school for 5+ years.  It was never my good subject.  I really am nervous about taking this test and flunking.


----------



## curious george

What got me was the time factor.  I was freaking out at the end and thought I failed because I didn't finish two of the three sections.  I think doing practice tests *under time constraints * is an excellent idea prior to writing CFAT.

English - I don't think you can study this section.  It's basically the vocabulary you pick up throughout your lifetime.  I love reading and I recognized some words from my reading.  But here is my warning: if you're not sure, go with your first instinct.  I kick myself for putting the right answer down and then changing it.  Grrrr! Also, keep in mind a word can have multiple meanings.

Spatial - I think you're good at it or you're not.  I found some practice tests on the internet.  They're really fun to do and I suggest doing them if even for the sake of having fun.

Math - naturally my Achilles heel.  However, it was better than I thought.  Just use your common sense and don't overthink the question - you will solve the problems.  My regret was that I wish I reviewed the mechanics of actually doing the arithmetic.  Unfortunately, I've become too dependent on calculators.

The day I wrote the CFAT, exactly 1/3 of the people who were there didn't come back.  Whether it was because they did poorly or for other reasons I don't know.  The ones who returned were told that we all did well.


----------



## Allgunzblazing

I have a book recommendation - "Test and Assess your IQ" by Philip Carter and Ken Russell. Its got vocabulary tests, spatial ability, math  and reasoning. For the math part I did more than what this books contains. But yeah, I don't have enough words to praise this book.


----------



## cryptic

Allgunzblazing said:
			
		

> I have a book recommendation - "Test and Assess your IQ" by Philip Carter and Ken Russell. Its got vocabulary tests, spatial ability, math  and reasoning. For the math part I did more than what this books contains. But yeah, I don't have enough words to praise this book.


is this the only thing you did to practice math?  Are you naturally good at math?


----------



## PMedMoe

cryptic said:
			
		

> is this the only thing you did to practice math?





			
				Allgunzblazing said:
			
		

> For the math part I did more than what this books contains.



 :

I failed math in high school, didn't study for the CFAT and still scored quite high.  YMMV....


----------



## cryptic

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> :
> 
> I failed math in high school, didn't study for the CFAT and still scored quite high.  YMMV....


So did you guess the questions?

Because I read conflicting responses here.  Either it's easy or study hard.  Might be basic math for some but I am terrible.    I never failed math, but I forgotten literally everything.


----------



## PMedMoe

cryptic said:
			
		

> So did you guess the questions?
> 
> Because I read conflicting responses here.  Either it's easy or study hard.  Might be basic math for some but I am terrible.    I never failed math, but I forgotten literally everything.



No, I didn't.  

Everyone is different.  Most threads here (and there are loads) just say to review high school math like fractions, decimals, etc.


----------



## Allgunzblazing

Cryptic, I've always had to put in extra effort towards math. That is why when it came time from the CFAT, I focused on what I found challenging. 

This was just my study strategy. I'm sure there are folks who can achieve the same results or better with less effort. In the end what matters is that one puts in his/ her best effort on the day of the CFAT, and of course get the score required for the trades applied for.


----------



## armyvern

cryptic said:
			
		

> ... I never failed math ...



I did. 

Perfect trade placement for me I'd say.  ;D


----------



## cryptic

Allgunzblazing said:
			
		

> Cryptic, I've always had to put in extra effort towards math. That is why when it came time from the CFAT, I focused on what I found challenging.
> 
> This was just my study strategy. I'm sure there are folks who can achieve the same results or better with less effort. In the end what matters is that one puts in his/ her best effort on the day of the CFAT, and of course get the score required for the trades applied for.


How do you find out what score you need?  What do I need for Nav Comm?

I am awful at all math, so I am going to have to study on everything I guess.  I was having trouble with the practice questions.


----------



## Allgunzblazing

Cryptic, I'm not qualified to answer these questions. Only a CF recruiter can shed light on these. I don't know what my score was, all I was told  was that I had done well and qualified for all the occupations in the CF. 

If you're having trouble in a certain area, just use the old school method - put in extra effort in that area. Bitter medicine  :nod:.


----------



## cryptic

Allgunzblazing said:
			
		

> Cryptic, I'm not qualified to answer these questions. Only a CF recruiter can shed light on these. I don't know what my score was, all I was told  was that I had done well and qualified for all the occupations in the CF.
> 
> If you're having trouble in a certain area, just use the old school method - put in extra effort in that area. Bitter medicine  :nod:.


thanks I am hoping to go down there in the next few days I am just nervous.

but what would happen if someone guessed everything right on the CFAT?  So they qualify for everything?  What if they choose a job and they aren't actually fit for it? Do the forces make them take a course or remove them from that career path?


----------



## PMedMoe

I think you're making way too much of this.....


----------



## curious george

Don't freak out about the calculus part.  I didn't touch it since first year university.  I think the authors of the CFAT assume that not everyone took calculus.  So, that's one less thing to worry about.


----------



## Good2Golf

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I think you're making way too much of this.....



^ this.


Keep in mind that the test does other things as well, like exert time constraints on examinees to see how they perform under pressure.  If you freak out, start to hyper-ventilate, etc... you won't perform well overall and you will be assessed accordingly.

Yes, you want to do well, but understand that "doing well" means performing in a consistent manner that will accurately represent how you would perform in real-life at any one of the trades or occupations that the CFAT indicated you would be suitable for.

Relax, and don't over-think what you're about to do...


Regards
G2G


----------



## QORvanweert

curious george said:
			
		

> Don't freak out about the calculus part.  I didn't touch it since first year university.  I think the authors of the CFAT assume that not everyone took calculus.  So, that's one less thing to worry about.



I don't remember there being any calculus on the test. I wrote it when I was in gr. 11 and joining the reserves and still managed to qualify for everything. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Review long division and fractions. 
If there was calculus on it then there are certainly tricks you can use so that you don't need to grind out the entire differential equation.

ex: 4x^2 + 3y^7 - 9 = wtf? Just multiply the coefficient by the exponent and drop the exponent by 1.
Therefore: 8x+21y^6 is the tangent formula for the above function. Anyplace it intercepts zero is a local max/min. Again, I am very confident you won't have to know this level of math.


----------



## PMedMoe

I said:
			
		

> ex: 4x^2 + 3y^7 - 9 = wtf? Just multiply the coefficient by the exponent and drop the exponent by 1.
> Therefore: 8x+21y^6 is the tangent formula for the above function. Anyplace it intercepts zero is a local max/min. Again, I am very confident you won't have to know this level of math.



I think this will send the OP into worry-overdrive.

There is NO calculus on the CFAT.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I read it, went into overdrive, sharted, fell of the chair and now I can't remember my name....but I did understant this part --->  = wtf?

My cats breath smells like catfood!


----------



## Good2Golf

I said:
			
		

> I don't remember there being any calculus on the test. I wrote it when I was in gr. 11 and joining the reserves and still managed to qualify for everything. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Review long division and fractions.
> If there was calculus on it then there are certainly tricks you can use so that you don't need to grind out the entire differential equation.
> 
> ex: 4x^2 + 3y^7 - 9 = wtf? Just multiply the coefficient by the exponent and drop the exponent by 1.
> Therefore: 8x+21y^6 is the tangent formula for the above function. Anyplace it intercepts zero is a local max/min. Again, I am very confident you won't have to know this level of math.



Technically, your example above is a partial differential and the solution is not a solution in itself: 

Y(x) = 8x + 21dy/dx = a constant.

Solving a partial differential equation results initially in an arbitrary function as above, vice a specific solution.  Solution of the PDE requires application of boundary conditions to the arbitrary function to then solve the equation.

It is likely not giving anything much away to say that solving partial differential equations per your example above is NOT on the CFAT.


I, Citizen - I think you should probably stick to helping yourself and not trying to blow the minds of CF applicants...


Just my  :2c:

Regards 
G2G


----------



## cryptic

looking at that just hurts my head.  :-[ math makes me nervous what can I say.  I studied the practice test with a friend last night and was having trouble on certain questions.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Technically, your example above is a partial differential and the solution is not a solution in itself:
> 
> Y(x) = 8x + 21dy/dx = a constant.
> 
> Solving a partial differential equation results initially in an arbitrary function as above, vice a specific solution.  Solution of the PDE requires application of boundary conditions to the arbitrary function to then solve the equation.



Say again all after "mumble mumble!", over!!


----------



## Journeyman

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Technically, your example above is a partial differential and the solution is not a solution in itself.....


I was going to say the exact same thing!   :nod:



...except I didn't want to add to the Recruiting threads' hallmark traits -- simplistic repetition and such _obvious_ answers.


----------



## Good2Golf

Journeyman said:
			
		

> ...except I didn't want to add to the Recruiting threads' hallmark traits -- simplistic repetition and such _obvious_ answers.



Perhaps I failed to pass the message on by being too polite to "I, Citizen."


I was mentally thinking, "If you want to impress everybody with how smart you think you are at math, even though it has nothing to do with the subject at hand, at least don't screw it up by being wrong..."   :

Maybe I should take remedial classes in "Straight talk", by Journeyman.   :nod:


----------



## aesop081




----------



## The_Falcon

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

>


That answer is only correct 9 out of 10 times, when its sunny on Tuesday in March.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

>



I understand this one too.  Basically, the math I know has numbers in it, and the less, the better.  Once I see a ^, letter, or some type of ancient-looking hyroglific, I'm in over my head.

S-M-R-T.

I did fine on the CFAT (re-wrote in '06 as mine from '88 was long expired), and the only real 'review' I did was fractions.


----------



## Scott

How anyone ever made it through the process pre-army.ca astounds me.


----------



## The_Falcon

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I understand this one too.  Basically, the math I know has numbers in it, and the less, the better.  Once I see a ^, letter, or some type of ancient-looking hyroglific, I'm in over my head.
> 
> S-M-R-T.
> 
> I did fine on the CFAT (re-wrote in '06 as mine from '88 was long expired), and the only real 'review' I did was fractions.



Technically you didn't write the CFAT in 88, the current aptitude test we call  CFAT came into being in the 90's, which is why you had to write it in 06,  CFAT results don't expire.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Learn something new everyday!  Now that I have that ticked off for today, I can go go sleep on the couch for the rest of th....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


----------



## Jarnhamar

I said:
			
		

> I don't remember there being any calculus on the test. I wrote it when I was in gr. 11 and joining the reserves and still managed to qualify for everything. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Review long division and fractions.
> If there was calculus on it then there are certainly tricks you can use so that you don't need to grind out the entire differential equation.
> 
> ex: 4x^2 + 3y^7 - 9 = wtf? Just multiply the coefficient by the exponent and drop the exponent by 1.
> Therefore: 8x+21y^6 is the tangent formula for the above function. Anyplace it intercepts zero is a local max/min. Again, I am very confident you won't have to know this level of math.



Lame.


----------



## cryptic

when I went down to the recruiting center yesterday the recruiter told me to practice decimals, fractions, and algebra.

she starred certain questions for me to study.

#3 on practice test 3 - a team of clothing workers had an output of 1000, etc.
#4
#9
#10 a group of 27 sailors, etc.

all of it makes my head hurt.  :-\


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I am 'challenged' with math as well.  I did it.  Just focus, have motivation and do what you need to do to score the best you can score.

This website is the only ref I used.  No books, no practice tests.

http://math.com/


----------



## curious george

cryptic said:
			
		

> when I went down to the recruiting center yesterday the recruiter told me to practice decimals, fractions, and algebra.
> 
> she starred certain questions for me to study.
> 
> #3 on practice test 3 - a team of clothing workers had an output of 1000, etc.
> #4
> #9
> #10 a group of 27 sailors, etc.
> 
> all of it makes my head hurt.  :-\



I swear I'm really horrible at math.  But I just looked at the questions and thought about them with common sense...what is this question asking?  what does it want to know?  how do I get there?  Ultimately, common sense prevails. 

I also found a little trick with another type of math question.  But I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say it.  Better not.


----------



## seawolf

> What type of math is on the aptitude test?



The kind with numbers in it.


----------



## jasonh1234

Hi I'm new here. I'll keep this brief.
Been a goal to get into the CF for years & I'm finally doing it. (Reserves for now, maybe FT later <shrug>)

I'm fairly well researched on the recruitment process.
Despite not finishing High School I'm extremely intelligent and usually score very high on IQ tests.
Last month I did a crash English 12 course which I passed with flying colours. (Working slowly towards finishing my Grade 12)
Today I got the call for my aptitude test booking.
I'm excited and optimistic. BUT...

During my reading here today I came across an old thread (Which I now can't find again) in which the poster gave a detailed description of his entry attempt for Army Infantry. He failed the CFAT 2-3 times despite being a seemingly smart cookie. His weak area... Math. He scored well in all areas except math in which he scored badly enough to affect his overall score. Denied entry.

Despite being told many times by many people in my life that I'm a "genius" Math has always been my weakest area. (Math makes me feel almost dyslexic.)  I've done the official CFAT sample test from forces.ca and done well on it but I must admit feeling complete dread after my reading here today. I don't know if my math is up to snuff and my test is in 4 days. I'm seriously considering getting a private tutor to help me over the weekend (It's Friday 5pm now.) to cram for my test. I don't know if I'll be able to do it otherwise.  :crybaby:

I have very little time to read these boards and a lot of the seemingly useful links I've found here using the search, seem to have become dead links during the life of this board. I'm wondering if anyone has anything that might be more helpful than the  Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  thread  and containing a lot of dead links. Please note: I have seen THIS post.

I've also seen a site on the internet (I'll refrain from the link in case it's against board rules to mention) which is offering paid memberships to study guides designed to help you pass the CFAT. They charge $99 and it's $49 until Sept 11th (Ironically the day of my test) Do you think it's worth my while to get a tutor? Pay for the online course? Both?


----------



## jasonh1234

Adding some information in case someone in the future comes across this thread.

Math Tutors in the Vancouver area as provided by tutor.bc.ca:



> The current rate for one-to-one tutoring in your home is $40/hour, to be paid directly to the tutor after each session. If the tutoring takes place in the tutor's home, the rate is $35/hour.
> 
> *       Phil                    604-732-5428
> *       Sachiko                 604-377-9291
> *       Silviu                   778-855-1769
> *       Geoffrey                  604-633-4954



[*edit* Removed last names for privacy]


----------



## shreenan

"I've also seen a site on the internet (I'll refrain from the link in case it's against board rules to mention) which is offering paid memberships to study guides designed to help you pass the CFAT. They charge $99 and it's $49 until Sept 11th (Ironically the day of my test) Do you think it's worth my while to get a tutor? Pay for the online course? Both?"   :facepalm:

Its a huge waste of $50. play IQ tests instead or get a math help book from a library or do on-line math quiz's!


----------



## jasonh1234

Got the message a little too late. It may be a waste, it may not. We'll see. I had $50 burning a hole in my PayPal account so I paid for the subscription. I'll come back later and chime in with my opinion on whether it was a waste or not.  I've also just finished setting up 3 hours of tutoring this weekend.
This is important to me. More important than the money I'm spending to prep.
I do not want to fail. I recognize I'm at a disadvantage here.

I'll post back later with how things went.


----------



## ProtectAndServe

I passed so you will do fine.  :blotto:


----------



## GnyHwy

If you are not strong at math, I fail to see how you will do really well in an I.Q. test.  Usually solid math is a prerequisite for scoring high.  Nonetheless, I will post the practice test.  I am sure this is probably the umptenth time this has been posted, but oh well.  If you are confident with this test then you will be fine.  If you are not, then you might want to double check the I.Q. tests that you have been doing.

http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf


----------



## Habs

It's not rocket science. Those online study guide things are a cash grab... but all the power to you if you think it'll help you pass.


----------



## Sizzle709

Multiplication, Division, Addition and Subtraction of Fractions.

BAM! done.

The rest of the CFAT is a cake walk.


----------



## jasonh1234

Just got home from doing my aptitude test.
There were 5 others there in addition to myself.
Everyone said they studied the night before and did the practices online.

Myself... I paid the $50 for the online study guide, & hired a tutor on the weekend to refresh my memory on all this manual math I haven't done in years. He was very helpful (Phil in the list above)

In my opinion, I could've saved the money on the tutor and just watched YouTube videos instead. Oh well. It didn't occur to me at the time. I wouldn't call it a waste, but it wasn't really needed.

I got the most return on my online study guide which I found pretty helpful and good practice.

I felt confident on all areas but STILL a little anxiety about the math.

So this morning I go in and the test begins. Immediately I find myself saying "Whoa, what? These are harder than I expected! In the math area I found myself thinking "Thank god I practiced doing this without a calculator all weekend."
BUT what caused me to panic was when I heard "1 minute left!" and I still had X questions to go.
I thought I'd been moving at a decent pace but I should've been spending less time per question & skipping ones that didn't come to me easily to come back to later. I wasn't even watching the timer because I was so sure I was making good time.

Out of our group I think only one of us answered every question on the test without missing any.

While waiting for results we all stared at each other in disbelief and agreed... "That was harder than expected." and that "The online sample is in serious need of updating to be a more accurate representation of the test"

We're forbidden from talking about the details of the test but I got the feeling they were trying some new things out. I could be wrong. Just a few clues to that.

I'm glad I studied and prepared as much as I did. It paid off.
I passed.
I feel that if I personally didn't take the steps I did, I may not have. Although I have no way to know for certain.

Anyways just reporting back like I said I would.

My medical is in a couple days and my physical is 2 days after that.

Woohoo!  ;D


----------



## Journeyman

Jay H. said:
			
		

> While waiting for results we all stared at each other in disbelief and agreed... "That was harder than expected."


Great, now we're going to have even _more_ posters on suicide watch.   :not-again:


----------



## Rcmpwarrior

I've been here before quite abit (sorry for repeating myself) but i took the tests at military.com and my math score varies from 60% to 80 % (depending on which test i took) i was never the best at math and never took math in my last two years of high school (i got it out of the way right away) i did fail my first aptitude test ( i wanted to be a vehicle tech, i was only eligible for mobile support, infantry , and cook unfortunately my eye sight isn't the best and cook is the only thing i could go in) i work better with my hands than i do with a pen and paper, i under stand that math is a big part in  the Canadian forces ( once i learn something and keep doing it, it sticks to me), but to make a long story short how high do you need to get to become a vehicle tech? I was talking to a officer and he said he thought you didn't need to get that high on the app test to become a vehicle tech. Any one have any idea on this situation 

SORRY FOR THE LONG PARAGRAPH


----------



## muskrat89

You need to talk to a Recruiter to get the specifics you are looking for.

Regarding spelling, aptitude tests, etc. - failing to hit "shift" in order to properly capitalize an "I" is not a spelling mistake, it is a lack of effort. You already acknowledged a run-on paragraph. Sure you're on an internet message board, but you're asking professionals questions about your career. Surely you could muster the effort to put forth the questions in a manner that demonstrates your willingness to do and be the best?

Talk to a Recruiter. Always put forth the effort, even in the little things.

Locked.

Army.ca Staff


----------



## noushy88

Hey guys,
I did my CFAT in july, but unfortunately i failed it in problem solving . I will be writing my CFAT again soon. but Im kinda scared and dont want to fail it again. Ive never been a math person, thats partly why im a political science student. if anyone has any tips to help me prepare for it, i would greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Journeyman

You didn't even pretend to search, did you?  :not-again:


----------



## The_Falcon

noushy88 said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> I did my CFAT in july, but unfortunately i failed it in problem solving . I will be writing my CFAT again soon. but Im kinda scared and dont want to fail it again. Ive never been a math person, thats partly why im a political science student. if anyone has any tips to help me prepare for it, i would greatly appreciate it.



Tip 1
use the search function at the top

Tip 2
use google


----------



## RCDtpr

Buy a math textbook and study?  Being that you state you are a uni. student I imagine you are applying for an officer position.  SHOULD you ever get in....I certainly hope you approach potential problems such as this with a little more common sense.


----------



## Rcmpwarrior

noushy88 said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> I did my CFAT in july, but unfortunately i failed it in problem solving . I will be writing my CFAT again soon. but Im kinda scared and dont want to fail it again. Ive never been a math person, thats partly why im a political science student. if anyone has any tips to help me prepare for it, i would greatly appreciate it.



I as well am in the process of re-writing the test, i didn't fail the test per say i didn't make the mark of the trade i wanted to get into. But i bought the ASVAB for Dummies, i found that helped a lot, go to your public library and find some aptitude test books.


----------



## Occam

Tyler H said:
			
		

> i didn't fail the test per say



Per se

Sorry, pet peeve.


----------



## Rcmpwarrior

Occam said:
			
		

> Per se
> 
> Sorry, pet peeve.



Thank you! i was wondering if that was the correct spelling or not !ill put that in my mental index


----------



## KingofKeys

noushy88 said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> I did my CFAT in july, but unfortunately i failed it in problem solving . I will be writing my CFAT again soon. but Im kinda scared and dont want to fail it again. Ive never been a math person, thats partly why im a political science student. if anyone has any tips to help me prepare for it, i would greatly appreciate it.



Practise some more problem solving questions off Google (and then compare solutions). Repeat with different types of questions and problems. 

You're not a "math person" because you never tried enough. I know because I was once just like you.

"Practise" does NOT mean 90 minutes of google search. Sit down and learn. It may take hours or days depending on how behind you are from the standards. Don't study just to pass the CFAT. Put in the effort to learn it. The problem solving sections are simple enough that you may require this skill at some point in your career with the CF or elsewhere.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Political science is a joke, math is the language of the universe.

Just practice.

Occam, touche.


----------



## mmmjon

This may or may not help, but I sent this to multiple people in the past trying to get ready for the CFAT. With hopes that it helps you:

 Link 1:
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/test-examen/gct2-ecg2/q-index-eng.php

Link 2, click on "Spacial Ability", then "download". You can check out some of the other ones too.
http://www.psychometric-success.com/downloads/download-practice-tests.htm

Link 3:
http://www.wiziq.com/online-tests/30369-general-aptitude-test-for-all-comptitions

Now, here is an example of what NOT to expect:
http://www.analyzemath.com/high_school_math/grade_11/algebra.html

And here is what you CAN expect:

http://www.mystfx.ca/special/mathproblems/grade10.html


Good luck!


----------



## mlogue1

So I applied to join an armoured reconnaissance unit. It was a part of a co-op program with my high school, I have failed the cfat twice. I have graduated high school and currently attending college for police foundations. I want to apply for the reserves a third time, but this time I want to join an infantry unit instead. Is it possible to write the cfat for a third time? and is it easier to get into infantry instead of armoured reconnaissance?


----------



## Franko

I'm afraid your S.O.L. as the requirements are about the same IIRC.

I hear Rotten Ronnie's is hiring.


----------



## SharkmanSIX

mlogue1 said:
			
		

> So I applied to join an armoured reconnaissance unit. It was a part of a co-op program with my high school, I have failed the cfat twice. I have graduated high school and currently attending college for police foundations. I want to apply for the reserves a third time, but this time I want to join an infantry unit instead. Is it possible to write the cfat for a third time? and is it easier to get into infantry instead of armoured reconnaissance?



How are you doing in your college program? Are you struggling or getting good grades?


----------



## mariomike

mlogue1 said:
			
		

> Is it possible to write the cfat for a third time?



"You will only be allowed to write the test a third time if you provide proof that you are registered in a college or university program, and that you are passing courses without difficulty.":
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/howtoapply-106#step3-3


----------



## mlogue1

Im doing fairly well in my college program, im not failing anything


----------



## mlogue1

SharkmanSIX said:
			
		

> How are you doing in your college program? Are you struggling or getting good grades?



Im doing fairly well in my college program, Im not failing anything.


----------



## George Wallace

mlogue1 said:
			
		

> Im doing fairly well in my college program, im not failing anything





			
				mlogue1 said:
			
		

> Im doing fairly well in my college program, Im not failing anything.



Are you sure?


----------



## mlogue1

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Are you sure?



Im positive, I don't find myself struggling


----------



## Journeyman

Maybe you could go Intelligence; I hear the Navy has a Sub-Lieutenant line serial that just became vacant.   >


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Unfortunately, an aptitude test is just that...a test of your aptitude (or lack thereof). As hard as this may be to hear, you do not have the required aptitude. Move on. Despite what your HS guidance counsellor/parents said, you cannot be whatever you want when you grow up.

Harsh? Certainly. Honest? Absolutely.


----------



## SharkmanSIX

mlogue1 said:
			
		

> Im positive, I don't find myself struggling



You should just do the 2 years, get your diploma. The army will still be there, and you'll be a better applicant.


----------



## skyhigh10

I would do more than two years. I would demonstrate that you have the capacity to learn and the desire/dedication to succeed. It depends how badly you want a career. Some people have gone to school for 4+ years to be granted a third shot. 

Just because you failed to reach the cutoff for said trade twice does not mean you will fail the third time. Forget the CFAT for a minute. If you write the same test 10 times absent any practical preparation would you expect a different result?  The answer should be no. People do change. It comes down to your specific position and history.  The whole " you can't study for aptitude "  crap generally comes from those who are overwhelming introverted. The CFAT takes a snap shot of you as is ...in the present.  Contrary to some beliefs, people do in fact change! It's not a personality test.   :2c:

If it's what you want -  find a way. You won't be the first or last.


----------



## dangles

skyhigh10 said:
			
		

> The whole " you can't study for aptitude "  crap generally comes from those who are overwhelming introverted.



"aptitude: capability; ability; innate *or acquired* capacity for something; talent:" (Definitions.com)

I agree that one should not think the CFAT is simply a test that you can walk into without studying. It does not simply measure innate skills. Granted one may be predisposed to understand math at a level higher than another naturally, yet obviously most who do not have this gift can still acquire the talent.

So I think it is wrong to say that some people simply do not have the aptitude to be in the army in the innate sense, a caveat being those specially challenged etc. Clearly it is just lack of trying or laziness which limits a persons success.

/end rant + conclusion...study more.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

mlogue1 said:
			
		

> Im positive, I don't find myself struggling



Is english your first language?  I ask because even after correcting your own post and being questioned on it by George, you still managed to forget an apostrophe at the beginning of your sentence.

I'll also be that guy to step up to the bat and say: Maybe you're not cut out to be in the military?  

Bonne chance.


----------



## shogun506

How are people failing this CFAT? Jesus I passed this thing above the officer standard when I was 17. Normally I would say you don't need to study for the CFAT but YOU need to do some prep work. Download some IQ apps for your phone?

Edit: I'm going to edit this because I came off like a conceited jackass. You've written the test twice now. This means you know what is on it. Aptitude in the IQ sense is something that levels out and does not change over time. On the other hand, if you know what types of questions are on the test, you can prepare for them. This can mean you get a higher score on the test. What you need to do if you ever decide to redo this test is to practice questions that are similar to what is on the test. This doesn't mean read a book about math - it means do similar questions over and over again. Do the practice CFAT and understand why the answers are what they are.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Reaper-1 said:
			
		

> How are people failing this CFAT? Jesus I passed this thing above the officer standard when I was 17. Normally I would say you don't need to study for the CFAT but YOU need to do some prep work. Download some IQ apps for your phone?



Maybe they're just not as smart as you.


----------



## shogun506

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Maybe they're just not as smart as you.



My apologies for the insensitivity.


----------



## Journeyman

Reaper-1 said:
			
		

> Edit: I'm going to edit this because I came off like a conceited jackass.


Good work; your edit certainly removed that perception.    :


----------



## Scott

I think what leaped out at me was the fact that dude isn't even in yet himself. Now you definitely won't get in if you fail the CFAT, that's a given, but passing it offers no guarantees, either. Even in passing it, getting through the process to an offer and loaded on courses...you see where I am going here.

Scott
Staff


----------



## korwynkim

For anyone who is writing the CFAT soon and want to practice, I found a website with some tests on spatial, verbal and mathematical skills. The tests are pretty similar to what I've seen on other CFAT practice tests. And yes, you don't have to pay a penny.
http://www.fibonicci.com/


----------



## skyhigh10

This is was the list I composed and saved in my email a while back. Lets just say it helped me. 


This site by far helped me the most.    http://www.aptitude-test.com  


EXAMS



*MULTIPLE EXAMS IN ALL AREAS *

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/test-examen/pract-eng.htm

http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/psychotests.htm 

 http://www.aptitude-test.com/verbal-aptitude.html

http://www.bestsamplequestions.com/gre-questions/gre-questions.html

http://www.psychometric-success.com/downloads/download-practice-tests.htm

http://www.jobtestprep.co.uk/freeaptitude.aspx


*SPATIAL*

http://www.learnatest.com/testcenter/new_test.cfm?CFID=1477663&CFTOKEN=8708d9c1bf4228d2-1933F6A9-FD48-30B2-A20568D8FFF39735

http://www.fibonicci.com/spatial-reasoning/test/hard/

*VOCAB*

Most common GRE words http://dynamo.dictionary.com/games/45/most-common-gre-words/match

Flashcards GRE words http://dynamo.dictionary.com/games/45/most-common-gre-words/flashcards

Daily Digest Word Test  http://www2.readersdigest.ca/wordpower.html


*MATH HELP* 

GRE MATH SITE http://www.onlinemathlearning.com/gre-math.html

http://www.needmathhelp.com/gr10math.htm  ALL SECTIONS IN GR 10 CURRICULUM 

Word Problems Forum with Answers :  http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homework/word/age/Age_Word_Problems.faq.hide_answers.1.html

ALL TYPES OF WORKSHEETS : RATIOS, DIVISION, FRACTIONS, ETC.http://www.mathworksheets4kids.com/percent.html
http://www.mathworksheets4kids.com/word-problems.html   WORD PROBS

http://www.algebra.com/ Fractions

Dividing Decimals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_946495&feature=iv&src_vid=eI6Xp6pwhqc&v=UiB1pB_5leU

Convering P into F/D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04eEAxkc4bk&feature=relmfu

Solving Ratio Word Probs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJIGXAfCcpQ

Manipulating Fractions http://www.careergym.com/blog_comment/numerical_quantitative_reasoning_best_practices_3_manipulating_fractions

http://www.careergym.com/blog_comment/numerical_quantitative_reasoning_best_practices_1_fuellling_up_the_tank

http://voices.yahoo.com/algebra-help-solve-boat-river-word-problems-2820345.html?cat=4

http://voices.yahoo.com/algebra-help-set-solve-percent-word-1960353.html?cat=4

http://voices.yahoo.com/algebra-help-solve-age-word-problems-3255471.html?cat=4


*CFAT INFO* 

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/68213.75.html


----------



## secondchance

I used some books with ASVAB tests (google it) - English and mathematics parts.


----------



## TYLERgibson

I found the test not that difficult at all, just look over some of these and you will be fine!

Tyler


----------



## jack3d17

Okay so im in a bit of a dilemma. Tomorrow I have my CFAT test. Last night I downloaded TestReady Pro. Ive been studying all day, and all night, last night. Ive found that the Verbal and Spacial sections are fairly easy on this test, and ive been getting 90's and 100's on that, however im doing very very bad on the problem solving part. I have a few questions. 1, is TestReady pro excellent? as it claims to be... and 2, if im getting 50's in the problem solving portion now, can i turn that around by 830 am tomorrow? seeing how its about 5 pm now... 

Please respond asap! thanks


----------



## MikeL

jack3d17 said:
			
		

> Okay so im in a bit of a dilemma. Tomorrow I have my CFAT test. Last night I downloaded TestReady Pro. Ive been studying all day, and all night, last night.



Did you just start refreshing yourself on all the subjects today?



			
				jack3d17 said:
			
		

> 1, is TestReady pro excellent? as it claims to be...



No idea.  I'm sure it has it's pros/cons.



			
				jack3d17 said:
			
		

> 2, if im getting 50's in the problem solving portion now, can i turn that around by 830 am tomorrow? seeing how its about 5 pm now...



Cramming all night may help,  but it may also be negative.  Stressing over this, staying up late/lack of sleep may have a negative impact on you tomorrow.



			
				jack3d17 said:
			
		

> Please respond asap! thanks



Perhaps you shouldn't have done everything last minute,  then you wouldn't be in this position.

Biggest thing,  don't stress out/panic over this.  Either you know the material or you won't.  This program may be stressing you out with the test results it gives you,  but who knows you may do great on the CFAT as well.  Read the questions,  make sure you understand and answer it.


----------



## FutureSailor

What Skeletor said. 

I would continue studying with some nice calm music (Owsey) and just take the time to work on a few questions very thoroughly..


----------



## skyhigh10

You're not obligated to take the CFAT tomorrow. If you do not feel up to it or you're not at ones best.... then postpone it. My review was nothing short of overkill, and began a few months prior. The weeks leading into it however, I was doing 4-7 hours per day in math, problem solving, spatial, etc. 

Or,  you can of course just take it and see what happens. You will hear that it's difficult, that it's easy, and almost everything in between. Though I never want to say to myself "there was more I could have done" .  Securing a rewrite is no simple task these days. 

Regards


----------



## mariomike

jack3d17 said:
			
		

> 1, is TestReady pro excellent? as it claims to be...



Some discussion here.

"Partnership with TestReadyPro (CFAT Prep Training)":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/73666.0


----------



## KimLaf

Hello everyone, this question may have already been answered and if so I apologize! My application is currently being processed for Direct Entry in Intelligence. I was wondering what score you need on the CFAT to move on to Basic Training? 

Thanks in Advance!


----------



## MikeL

If you want to be a INT O,  you can think of this as OJT;  search.  Lots of info regarding the CFAT here plus everything else there is too know about the recruiting process.


Also,  if someone told you the minimum CFAT requirements for INT O what would that mean for you?  Nothing...  AFAIK the CFRC won't let you know what it is,  nor will they tell you how you scored in each area of the CFAT.  They will tell you if you met the requirements for the trade you want,  as well as what other trades you qualified for.

There is more too getting onto a BMOQ(Officer basic training) then just passing the CFAT also.


----------



## Scott

Perfect answer, perfect time for a lock.

Staff


----------



## cposantos

I retook my aptitude test and didn't meet the requirement score to become an infantry, i did did enough to become a cook, but the area that i live in doesn't require a cook. What else can i do to get into the military ? this has been my life long career that i wanted to pursue...


----------



## brihard

I would suggest taking a year or two, going back to school and getting the necessary academic upgrading to merit another kick at the cat with the CFAT.

Sorry dude, but I'll be blunt. If you can't pass the CFAT for infantry you have academic issues, and you need to work on it before we can take a chance on you. Stereotypes to the contrary, we are not a simple profession, and some cognitive ability is important in what we do. A lot of what we do engages skills you wouldn't expect. Look at it the same way as if you failed the fitness test: You know the standards you must reach, now you must motivate yourself to self improve to reach them.


----------



## The_Green_Basterd

This is the exact info your Military Career Counselor gave you when he or she spoke to you after your rewrote the CFAT.  Call them and they will tell you everything you need to know.  What they will say is that you need to upgrade you education, "1 level," from what it currently is in order for a 3rd CFAT test to be justified.  What that 1 level upgrade means, is if you have grade 11, you need to go get your High School diploma.  If you have High School, you need to go get a Bachelors in something.  If you already have that, than you need to get a Masters... in something.

Good luck!


----------



## The_Falcon

The_Green_Basterd said:
			
		

> This is the exact info your Military Career Counselor gave you when he or she spoke to you after your rewrote the CFAT.  Call them and they will tell you everything you need to know.  What they will say is that you need to upgrade you education, "1 level," from what it currently is in order for a 3rd CFAT test to be justified.  What that 1 level upgrade means, is if you have grade 11, you need to go get your High School diploma.  If you have High School, you need to go get a Bachelors in something.  If you already have that, than you need to get a Masters... in something.
> 
> Good luck!



There is more to it than that, and it is by far from a guarantee.  A 3rd CFAT requires quite a few people to sign off on the waiver.  Which has been explained in MANY MANY other threads.


----------



## bLUE fOX

I have a side question: How do you get a second CFAT? I did mine in 2002 (or so) and didn't do as great as I thought I did, because I recently applied to the regular force and had my application canceled because my score was too low. I was later told by a captain from CFRC Halifax that a second CFAT could only be done under special circumstances.


----------



## Franko

Please do a search, as Hatchet Man implied.

It's been discussed ad nauesum.

LOCKED


----------



## Ygolohcysp

I was doing the practice test and I came by a question which required you to 1105/16. Do I have to be able to do this in my head, or can I at least use pen and paper to do long division? I know I can use a calculator on the practice test, but thats not really practicing haha.


----------



## Oscar590

They give you a blank sheet of paper to do those kind of equations on during the CFAT.


----------



## Ygolohcysp

Lean-N-Supreme said:
			
		

> They give you a blank sheet of paper to do those kind of equations on during the CFAT.



Thank you, much appreciated


----------



## desert punkk

ive tryed it 2 times now and im worry'd that if i fail again im screwd


----------



## Eye In The Sky

desert punkk said:
			
		

> ive tryed it 2 times now and im worry'd  that if i fail again im screwd



I've tried it 2 times now and I'm worried that if I fail again I'm screwed.   :

I think 3 is the maximum.  What level of school have you completed?


----------



## desert punkk

ive completed high school it was because of math is why i failed i was thinking on takeing an upgrade course and keep doing it untill i get a A before i try again


----------



## Michael OLeary

After you failed the CFAT each time, your Recruiter should have explained to you what you would be required to achieve before another retest, and what the ramifications would be if you failed again. From the various discussions here on multiple rewrites, a third attempt is unusual and requires proof of educational upgrading. before you try it again, you'd better be damn sure you're ready for it. It doesn't matter how good you think you are, that test will keep you from getting any further if you don't succeed.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Yes likely math; your English written communication is above standard.   :blotto:

_Psssttt_....little advice; things like spelling, grammar, etc is expected to be better than what you're using in your posts.  Part of the site guidelines you agreed to.  

I believe if you failed the CFAT a second time you are required to do upgrading and show this to the CFRC before they will let you write a 3rd time.


----------



## skyhigh10

Regardless of the site guidelines, do you really think you're ready for the CFAT a third time?

As I said in another thread today : 

"_If you take it again (a second time) , and do not meet the standard for your chosen trade, it will be VERY tough to convince the CF that you should be given a third chance.  If the door is not opening for you do not break it down out of stupidity or impatience.  If the CF believes that you've done enough to receive a rewrite, that is good news. At the end of the day, you also need to evaluate it yourself based on your previous experiences with it. Go with your gut_."

Based on your original post, you are not ready to rewrite the CFAT. As you may recall, one of the sections is verbal skills.  If you attempt this test again and you do not meet the standard, it's game over.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

You have your answers.
Locked.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

From DAA,

Bruce,

The post above is locked.  Would you mind adding the following info for the OP?

"You will not be afforded the opportunity a 3rd re-test unless you are registered in a substantial academic development program at the post-secondary level since the last time the CFAT was administered, and you are able to provide proof that you are experiencing no apparent difficulty. "

Right from the Recruiters Handbook.

Thank you DAA.


----------



## yesican

Good day gentlemen,


        (disclaimer) In writing the cfat, we have agreed not to discuss the test.  Terms of service for this site "do not post anything you are not allowed too".

That said,  all trades work off of 3 values the test creates, you need to be in the 25% to become an officer.  Certain trades require certain scores.

As an aptitude test, all the questions change with the version, they get harder as you progress.  This gauges capability and level of knowledge, if you sharpen an axe, it is still an axe.  

The biggest concern is actually completing the test, skip the hard questions and go back later, the more complete the better your test will be, correctness is a large portion.

This has been said throughout This forum.

I have according to what the military accepts as schooling a grade 10 education but my score puts me at a university level.

Knowing something is not the same as understanding, try to explain something you know but not properly understand to someone who does not understand.

Alot of these tests are not about what you know, but what is not correct.  Also if you can discern patterns this will put you ahead of others.


----------



## Noctis

yesican said:
			
		

> Good day gentlemen,
> 
> 
> (disclaimer) In writing the cfat, we have agreed not to discuss the test.  Terms of service for this site "do not post anything you are not allowed too".
> 
> That said,  all trades work off of 3 values the test creates, you need to be in the 25% to become an officer.  Certain trades require certain scores.
> 
> As an aptitude test, all the questions change with the version, they get harder as you progress.  This gauges capability and level of knowledge, if you sharpen an axe, it is still an axe.
> 
> The biggest concern is actually completing the test, skip the hard questions and go back later, the more complete the better your test will be, correctness is a large portion.
> 
> This has been said throughout This forum.
> 
> I have according to what the military accepts as schooling a grade 10 education but my score puts me at a university level.
> 
> Knowing something is not the same as understanding, try to explain something you know but not properly understand to someone who does not understand.
> 
> Alot of these tests are not about what you know, but what is not correct.  Also if you can discern patterns this will put you ahead of others.



Not sure what the heck he's talking about.  Just to clarify things; you have to be at least in the 60th percentile to qualify as an officer. The reason they GENERALLY don't give out your score is because your performance on CFAT is only relevant when compared to the performance of others, so knowing your score may be misleading.
Just do your best, go over high school level math and pat yourself on the back once it's done.


----------



## Bluebulldog

Noctis said:
			
		

> Not sure what the heck he's talking about.  Just to clarify things; you have to be at least in the 60th percentile to qualify as an officer. The reason they GENERALLY don't give out your score is because your performance on CFAT is only relevant when compared to the performance of others, so knowing your score may be misleading.
> Just do your best, go over high school level math and pat yourself on the back once it's done.



I think the poster meant the TOP 25% or 75% score overall. That would seem to make sense no?


----------



## Amarko87

Noctis said:
			
		

> Not sure what the heck he's talking about.  Just to clarify things; you have to be at least in the 60th percentile to qualify as an officer. The reason they GENERALLY don't give out your score is because your performance on CFAT is only relevant when compared to the performance of others, so knowing your score may be misleading.
> Just do your best, go over high school level math and pat yourself on the back once it's done.



Nothing about your application process is about comparing you with others.  The only person that knows who you are is your interviewer, and above that, you are a number.  No names, no places, no locations.  You are given scores based on your application, transcripts, and interview (Military Potential, and if you apply to RMC they add an Academic Potential score). They start at the highest scores, and just work their way down the list until all the positions are filled.

Every trade has a specific cut-off score.  If you suck at math/problem solving but are great at vocabulary and spatial reasoning you may get the same score as someone that is great at math but weak at vocab/spatial, but you would not qualify for the same trades.


----------



## Flavus101

Hello,

Firstly I want to apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere. I am rather frustrated at the moment.   In all seriousness though I am wondering if there is a mistake on the answer key for the CFAT mock test?

http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf

I am talking specifically about question number 10 under the Problem Solving category. I am not quite sure how they came up with 15. If anyone could help explain that to me or confirm that the answer is indeed not 15 I would appreciate it!  

Regards,

Alex


----------



## Michael OLeary

> How many soldiers are there in a group of 27 sailors and soldiers if there
> are four fifths as many sailors as soldiers?



So, the number of sailors is 4/5 x the number of soldiers ... and the total is 27.

Consider, if there are 5 soldiers, there would be 4 sailors, which equals 9 in total.

Therefore:

15 soldiers + 12 sailors = 27; and 12 is four-fifths of 15 

I suppose we can only hope that our civilization would be saved if there was only a first-person-shooter video game that included math problems.


----------



## Ludoc

How many soldiers are in a group of 27 sailors and soldiers if there are four fifths as many sailors as soldiers?

If there are four fifths as many sailors as soldiers there are four sailors for every five soldiers. 

Four sailors plus five soldiers makes a group size of nine. (4+5=9)

The total number of service members (27) divided by the size of the group (9) lets us find how many groups of servicemen there are. (27/9=3)

Since we know the number of groups (3) and the number of soldiers in each group (5) we can establish there are 15 soldiers. (3x5=15)


----------



## PiperDown

I suspect you chose C) 21 as the answer by converting four fifths into a decimal ( .80) and calculating 80 percent of 27 (21.6).  Figuring you cant have .6 of a person, you rounded down to 21.

But.....as Mr O'Leary pointed out, there is more to the question.  Paying attention to detail is one of elements of the test    C) 21,  was a choice because it would be a common mistake.

That was a great question, and hopefully for the OP, a lesson learned.


----------



## Flavus101

_I suppose we can only hope that our civilization would be saved if there was only a first-person-shooter video game that included math problems._

First off I would like to thank all three of you for your fast response and answer. That question was just throwing me for a loop, I am sure we have all been there where a question that ought to be easily answered just seemed like an impossible task. 

As far as what I quoted up there that is pretty much out of order mate. Considering this was my first post and I must say a rather well written one compared to some first posts that people make perhaps you would have the courtesy to spare the degrading comment?

Just had a bit of a rough time with the question and was seeking some outside advice. I hope you can appreciate that.


----------



## Veiledal

He meant minimal offence, he was just making a joke at your expense. If you do succeed in your pursuit of a career with the CF it would be a great benefit to learn how to take things with a grain of salt.


----------



## Journeyman

Flavus101 said:
			
		

> As far as what I quoted up there that is pretty much out of order mate. Considering this was my first post and I must say a rather well written one compared to some first posts that people make perhaps you would have the courtesy to spare the degrading comment?


Oh yea, another sensitive one!     op:


Look, it's an _APTITUDE_ test.  If you have any sort of problems with math questions, even this one, it _suggests_ only that you may not be best suited for a mathematically-inclined position within the CF.  It's not the end of the world.



The *correct* answer, by the way, is "the _required_ number of soldiers will be in the group, because who really cares about the Navy."  You'll notice they didn't even bother asking about the Air Force.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Flavus101 said:
			
		

> As far as what I quoted up there that is pretty much out of order mate. Considering this was my first post and I must say a rather well written one compared to some first posts that people make perhaps you would have the courtesy to spare the degrading comment?





			
				Lil r said:
			
		

> He meant minimal offence, he was just making a joke at your expense. If you do succeed in your pursuit of a career with the CF it would be a great benefit to learn how to take things with a grain of salt.



Yes, please don't take things personally.  No one is attacking you personally or trying to insult your intelligence. You'll find that in several instances, humour and/or sarcasm is used to help make a point.  It's very common.  I've gotten some myself.  Just chuckle and move on.


----------



## Flavus101

Alrighty then.


----------



## Gunshark

I personally find it easiest to just construct a simple equation and solve for number of soldiers.

x - number of soldiers
(4/5)x - number of sailors
number of soldiers + number of sailors = 27

Therefore:

x + (4/5)x = 27
(9/5)x = 27
9x = 135
x = 15 (soldiers)


----------



## ModlrMike

Journeyman said:
			
		

> The *correct* answer, by the way, is "the _required_ number of soldiers will be in the group, because who really cares about the Navy."  You'll notice they didn't even bother asking about the Air Force.




You could just as easily infer that it takes 5 soldiers to do the work of 4 sailors.  >


----------



## The_Green_Basterd

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> You could just as easily infer that it takes 5 soldiers to do the work of 4 sailors.  >



Oh no, sounds like a, "senior service," comment on the hotizon.


----------



## Journeyman

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> You could just as easily infer that it takes 5 soldiers to do the work of 4 sailors.  >


I _could_.....but it's not likely that I would.


----------



## dapaterson

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> You could just as easily infer that it takes 5 soldiers to do the work of 4 sailors.  >



Or infer that it takes one soldier to do the job, and four to correct the errors made by the four sailors.


----------



## Michael OLeary

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Or infer that it takes one soldier to do the job, and four to correct the errors made by the four sailors.



One storeman/driver.
One tasked to operate the canteen.
Two on HTLA.
Two tasked to the kitchen for the week.
Two tasked by the Sergeant Major to paint rocks and straighten the signs in the parking area (again).
Two on sick parade (again).
One at the Orderly Room, trying to sort out his HTLA claim from last week.
One at the QM, trying to exchange a pair of boots acquired on a medical chit that didn't fit right after al.
One stuck in traffic because he went to "help" the storeman/driver.
The other eight of the sailors went sliders.

Leaving six soldiers to complete the task, which they did early because the sailors, the canteen queen and the MIR commandos were out of the way.   >


----------



## MARS

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> The other eight of the sailors went sliders.



sounds about right.... :nod:


----------



## The_Green_Basterd

I can understand why someone would want to know the minimum scores, but the only good it would serve you is to have a big sigh during the test when you thought you had enough right.  You need every point possible.  The CFAT score is big in calculating your overall score used for the Merit list.  Some people pass but are told they Need to do a rewrite in order to be competitive for certain jobs (PILOT, sometime INFMN when there are not many spots). So don't assume a bare Pass is enough to carry onto successful completion.


----------



## shogun506

Gunshark said:
			
		

> I personally find it easiest to just construct a simple equation and solve for number of soldiers.
> 
> x - number of soldiers
> (4/5)x - number of sailors
> number of soldiers + number of sailors = 27
> 
> Therefore:
> 
> x + (4/5)x = 27
> (9/5)x = 27
> 9x = 135
> x = 15 (soldiers)



That's exactly the way this type of question is supposed to be done.


----------



## SentryMAn

More math to exercise your brain:
2+3X5=?

6-1X5=?

5-5X3=?

I'm bored.

1+6X2+2-3X5=?


----------



## technophile

17
1
-10
0


----------



## Gunshark

6x^2 dx
∫  --------------------  =  ?
    (2x^3 + 7)^3/2


----------



## Ducam

Take the example test with a grain of salt. Study everything from basic math, fractions, area and perimeter. Know your volumes and mass.
The actual cfat is actually pretty tough.
The example test is just that, an example.
it is nothing at all like the real thing


----------



## Noctis

Ducam said:
			
		

> Take the example test with a grain of salt. Study everything from basic math, fractions, area and perimeter. Know your volumes and mass.
> The actual cfat is actually pretty tough.
> The example test is just that, an example.
> it is nothing at all like the real thing



Quoted for truth.  My group had 6/10 fail the test.  It's tough so prepare yourself adequately! Also, go read some good shakespear and pickup the meaning of a bunch of words you've never heard or seen ever in your entire life before. Could be handy.


----------



## SeR

Noctis said:
			
		

> My group had 6/10 fail the test.



I wouldn't use this as an indicator of how difficult or easy the CFAT is. The next batch of ten applicants could have a 100% success rate, then the following could be 10%. If your group consisted of 1000 people, and only 600 passed, then you could base the difficulty off of that fact. Ten people just isn't enough to determine the difficulty.


----------



## Noctis

SeR said:
			
		

> I wouldn't use this as an indicator of how difficult or easy the CFAT is. The next batch of ten applicants could have a 100% success rate, then the following could be 10%. If your group consisted of 1000 people, and only 600 passed, then you could base the difficulty off of that fact. Ten people just isn't enough to determine the difficulty.



My post was only intended to motivate him to prepare properly for the CFAT. I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush at all, sorry if it came accross that way. I'm well aware that using a sample of ten people is by no means statistically significant.


----------



## The_Green_Basterd

SeR said:
			
		

> I wouldn't use this as an indicator of how difficult or easy the CFAT is. The next batch of ten applicants could have a 100% success rate, then the following could be 10%. If your group consisted of 1000 people, and only 600 passed, then you could base the difficulty off of that fact. Ten people just isn't enough to determine the difficulty.



A lesson in statistics.  Yes, a small sample size yet he made his point.


----------



## eaglehawkdown

Good day all
I have been out of school for sometime now and was wondering what type of math you all recomend I refresh my head with so that the cfat doesnt kick my butt. thanks in advance. And also I am sorry if this has been asked 1 zillion times to the power of 4 divided by 9 minus 2 multiplied by 7 times......lol         ???


----------



## OYR_Pilot

Take a look at this practice test http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf

The maths are pretty the same in the CFAT


----------



## ModlrMike

Grade 10 Algebra. Work on translating word problems into equations.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

After looking at the practise test, it may also help you to know that I struggle greatly with math in general and I was able to pass.  To some, the math portion may be very easy, but for me it wasn't.  If math is a concern for you, just remember to take your time when writing. If _I_ can pass, I'm sure you can also.


----------



## Thisbeatgoeson

The practice CFAT is pretty weak and doesn't really prepare you too well. 

What I found a huge help was the American Military practice exams. http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/asvab

You will have to sign up, but it's an interesting site in general. It also a good help for the language part of the exam. 

You will likely encounter lots of fractions though, so if something like 2/25 X 4/10 blows your mind, use google and find ways of solving fractions involving equations. Good luck!


----------



## Mr.Neville

Thisbeatgoeson said:
			
		

> The practice CFAT is pretty weak and doesn't really prepare you too well.
> 
> What I found a huge help was the American Military practice exams. http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/asvab
> 
> You will have to sign up, but it's an interesting site in general. It also a good help for the language part of the exam.
> 
> You will likely encounter lots of fractions though, so if something like 2/25 X 4/10 blows your mind, use google and find ways of solving fractions involving equations. Good luck!



To go along with that, make sure you know how to convert fractions using common denominators for example: 2/25 and 4/10 lowest common denominator is 50, 50 divided by 25 = 2. 2x2 = 4/50, and 50 divided by 10 = 5. 5x4 = 20/50. these can also be reduced to 2/25 and 10/25. Either way, even if you think you know the stuff, take a refresher course so that it's fresh in your head. When you go in to take the test, remember that you want to get every question done before the time limit is up, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, so if you get stuck, mark the question down and come back to it later. Good Luck!


----------



## eaglehawkdown

The examples are nothing near the real test. Its only purpose is to give you and idea as to what to expect. Im thinkning as long as you got grade 9-10 math down you should be fine. Anybody disagree?


----------



## shogun506

It's been about 7 years since I took the CFAT but what I remember being the trickiest is the shapes - specifically mentally folding and unfolding patterns. If math is what you're struggling with, you should download some apps for your phone that give you problem solving type questions like this one:

4. If in the army there is one officer for every 16 privates, how many officers are there in a regiment consisting of 1,105 officers and privates?
(A) 62 (B) 65 (C) 67 (D) 69

That way you know how to translate word problems into algebra and solve them. Also, if you really can't figure out the answer to a question, choose the closest option provided and move on, time is important in the test.


----------



## mariomike

eaglehawkdown said:
			
		

> <snip> what type of math you all recomend I refresh my head with so that the cfat doesnt kick my butt.



"what type of math is on the aptitude test?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106898.0

"Math questions on the test":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30895.0/nowap.html

"CFAT Math Problem Solving":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91357.0

"Not the best at math..":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107441.0

"CFAT Math + other question":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/80466.0

"How does one 'relearn' math?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26449.0

"I suck at math (CFAT worries)":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/65081.0

"If you need help in Math for the CFAT":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60947.0/nowap.html


----------



## eaglehawkdown

B:  65  


 :bowing:


----------



## George Wallace

I: 25


----------



## holieee

REALLY brush up on your fractions. Don't just focus on simplifying them, learn how to convert them into decimals and look up how to divide and multiply those as well.

(edited for wording, for future reference)


----------



## The_Falcon

holieee said:
			
		

> A lot of it IS fractions. Don't just focus on simplifying them, learn how to convert them into decimals and look up how to divide and multiply those as well.



I guess you forgot about the part at the beginning of the test, not to talk about the specifics of what's on the test.


----------



## hogarthmike

I would have to agree with hatchet man on this one. IMO a lot of what has been brought up on this thread is violating that agreed portion of the test.  :-X 
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Leddy

I second the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) (I used the textbook version). Head over to your local library and they should have it, if not a GED textbook may also help.


----------



## holieee

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> I guess you forgot about the part at the beginning of the test, not to talk about the specifics of what's on the test.



My apologies. I tried to be vague by saying things about general aspects of math as fractions and decimals are part of a grade 10 curriculum, I didn't mean to give too much specific information. My mistake.


----------



## eaglehawkdown

Lets not tell anybody and talk or mention that you all have to wake up early do push ups and RUN.. RUN .. and clean.. and do more push ups. Did I mention Running already?   O'h and get yelled at~ oh and clean.Learn !  do sit ups.... march...march... yell... push ups...JOG! RUN!    :crybaby:

Can someone also tell me something without giving away to much information on the number or percentage of recruits/full time memebers that cant handle the lifestyle for whatever reasons and get a rude wake up call in the first year and leave or put in papers to be dissmissed compared to the number of people that pass/fail the cfat?


----------



## BeyondTheNow

eaglehawkdown said:
			
		

> Lets not tell anybody and talk or mention that you all have to wake up early do push ups and RUN.. RUN .. and clean.. and do more push ups. Did I mention Running already?   O'h and get yelled at~ oh and clean.Learn !  do sit ups.... march...march... yell... push ups...JOG! RUN!    :crybaby:
> 
> Can someone also tell me something without giving away to much information on the number or percentage of recruits/full time memebers that cant handle the lifestyle for whatever reasons and get a rude wake up call in the first year and leave or put in papers to be dissmissed compared to the number of people that pass/fail the cfat?



I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is.  I feel the post made by Hatchet Man was perfectly reasonable, not only regarding the quote he directed it towards, but also as a caution to others that things _were indeed_ becoming too specific.  As well, Holieee accepted the nudge gracefully and IMO seemed to understand why it was said.  I don't feel your condescension was necessary.


----------



## SentryMAn

eaglehawkdown said:
			
		

> Can someone also tell me something without giving away to much information on the number or percentage of recruits/full time members that cant handle the lifestyle for whatever reasons and get a rude wake up call in the first year and leave or put in papers to be dismissed compared to the number of people that pass/fail the cfat?



the answer you seek is 6


----------



## dent67

I just want to know if anyone has any experience with this book: http://www.amazon.ca/Complete-Canadian-Aptitude-Questions-ebook/dp/B00BBKEZKY

I bought it on google play for 10 bucks and so far it seems helpful although the math word problems are a little tough.  It also shows signs of being cheaply put together (answer keys don't match for a few questions, clear copy pasting from earlier sections, questions being repeated), but for the magnitude of practice questions I feel it's worth it.  

Just curious if anyone has used it before and if they think it's worth it for me to keep using it or should I just stick to my GED book and the other resources given throughout this forum?

Mods: if this is not the right place to ask this question please delete

Thanks.


----------



## Bart905

I recently got a call from the local Recruitment center to write my CFAT but due to my change of location for college my file had to be closed before i wrote it  . The recruiter ask me how was my Math, I said I was average and that I did the practice test and got them all rite. His reply was practice test is too easy I suggest you refreshing your math before I book you because I want you to do well. Therefor I suggest you review math from 9-12 academic


----------



## BeyondTheNow

I'm not familiar with the text listed, but I am very familiar with the GED text. If you're already dissatisfied with its contents and you're doubting its overall helpfulness, I'd recommend sticking with the GED text as a study aid. As well, you can compare the practice CFAT questionnaire with similar types of questions contained in the GED text for a greater range/variety of difficulty.


----------



## dent67

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> As well, you can compare the practice CFAT questionnaire with similar types of questions contained in the GED text for a greater range/variety of difficulty.



I do like that idea, the GED book is better at explaining things, my problem is that it is too general, but sort of combining the two does allow for it to be narrowed down.  I'm not necessarily dissatisfied, more worried about its relevance and if anyone had any experience with the CFAT book because it is a relatively new publication.  I do like your idea though and will definitely do that to pull it all together.

Thanks .  I figure the more resources the better right.


----------



## eaglehawkdown

WOW! 9-12 math Is close to 4 years worth of study to cramp in a 15-60 day period! and considering you only get 2 shots at it!  And one more thing! So many people on this website are sensitive and seem to have this issue with people and what they type ! If world war 3 was to break out tmorow I wonder what would happen to the cfat ?


----------



## PuckChaser

eaglehawkdown said:
			
		

> If world war 3 was to break out tmorow I wonder what would happen to the cfat ?



Not sure if trolling or simply curious about random things, but why lower a recruiting standard? Maybe we get rid of PT testing and medical testing too, and just send some cannon fodder out so we don't need to worry about actually winning.


----------



## eaglehawkdown

All I wanted to get an idea about was ~ What level of math I should spend my study on so that I dont get my ass kicked on the test since its been some time that I have been in school thats all. And I think ive figured it out now. Thank you all! I can see how things on this website can easily get outta hand!


----------



## secondchance

I used ASVAB books for preparing math


----------



## TylerF

Hi Dent,

I used the same book to study for my CFAT a few weeks ago and I found it really helpful. I agree that there are issues with it (wrong answers, repetition of questions, etc), but the content is good - and actually a little higher / harder than the real test so it makes you well prepared.

In terms of studying, there isn't much you can do in a short period to increase your verbal, but there are a lot of free spatial exercises online and for problem solving I used this book: http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=1564146782 . It should be available through your local library, and although it may seem slightly basic when you first go over the problems it was infinitely helpful as far as refreshing what was learned in grade 10 / 11 Math. I found just getting back into the habit and practice of doing problems and spatial exercises was key to success with the CFAT. 

If you have any other questions send me a PM. Best of luck!


----------



## dent67

Thanks all


----------



## Ryan jc88

how high do you have to score on the aptitude test to become an infantry soldier. And what if you didnt qualify for a trade to wanted at first but after serving a couple year could you re-apply for that trade, or work your way into it ?


----------



## MikeL

I'm guessing you didn't see the large CFAT thread or searc?  Because if you did you would have found a large thread about the CFAT.  You also would have found out CFAT scores are not posted,  even if they were how would that help you?  

You can request a VOT(change trade),  but if you do not meet the CFAT, Medical, etc requirements for that trade you will be denied.  There is no loop hole or way around it.


*edited to add link*

CFAT thread
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html


----------



## Ryan jc88

Thanks im new to this site and didnt see the post about CFAT.


----------



## mariomike

Ryan jc88 said:
			
		

> how high do you have to score on the aptitude test to become an infantry soldier.



What do you need to get on the CFAT for Infantry Trade?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102745.0

CFAT Scoring? Minimum for Reg force Infantry? 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/87313.0


----------



## MikeL

Ryan jc88 said:
			
		

> Thanks im new to this site and didnt see the post about CFAT.




If you have any questions regarding the recruiting process, etc,  99.9% of the time they are not unique and have been asked a few times already on the forums.   Just use the search on the website,  or search the site through google.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search


----------



## Smith91

Hi guys, I am just wondering what score you would need to be able to get into infantry. I am confident I could pass the verbal and spatial easily, however math would be a bit more rough. The word problems specifically have never been my strong suit. Thanks.

BTW I apologize if this has been asked before.


----------



## mariomike

Smith91 said:
			
		

> Hi guys, I am just wondering what score you would need to be able to get into infantry.



What do you need to get on the CFAT for Infantry Trade?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102745.0

CFAT Scoring? Minimum for Reg force Infantry?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/87313.0

CFAT for infantry officer  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/92210.0

"What are th lowest you can get on the cfat in order to get into the infantry?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-22341.html#msg22341

"Does someone know how high you have to score to become an infantryman?"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-315883/topicseen.html#msg315883

"To get into infantry, what is the school you need to get on the CFAT?";
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-253111.html#msg253111

"And one more thing im very bad at math?? will that have a lot to do with passing for Infantry Soldier which is what i really wanna do!!"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-212708/topicseen.html#msg212708

"My choice's were Infantry Soldier And Amoured Solider! Does anyone know if you need a supurb socre to get into thoise ocupations???"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-212604/topicseen.html#msg212604

"I plan to join the reserves, with an Infantry MOC. I hope the CFAT is alot easier than this test was.";
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-179521/topicseen.html#msg179521

"And for infantry, you don't need a very high score (I heard)."
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-87577/topicseen.html#msg87577

"For infantry you need to score 18/60...  "
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-58553/topicseen.html#msg58553

CFAT Test Results...what does it mean?
"I‘m sure they have some room for you in the infantry, you don‘t need grade 12 math to know how to dig a hole  "
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-58394/topicseen.html#msg58394

Lots more Infantry CFAT discussions ...


----------



## George Wallace

Smith91 said:
			
		

> BTW I apologize if this has been asked before.



Indeed it has.   If you care to look at the links in the previous post, you will learn a lot.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Knowing what score is required won't help you pass or fail the test.


----------



## Moon

mariomike said:
			
		

> What do you need to get on the CFAT for Infantry Trade?
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102745.0
> 
> CFAT Scoring? Minimum for Reg force Infantry?
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/87313.0
> 
> CFAT for infantry officer
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/92210.0
> 
> "What are th lowest you can get on the cfat in order to get into the infantry?":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-22341.html#msg22341
> 
> "Does someone know how high you have to score to become an infantryman?"
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-315883/topicseen.html#msg315883
> 
> "To get into infantry, what is the school you need to get on the CFAT?";
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-253111.html#msg253111
> 
> "And one more thing im very bad at math?? will that have a lot to do with passing for Infantry Soldier which is what i really wanna do!!"
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-212708/topicseen.html#msg212708
> 
> "My choice's were Infantry Soldier And Amoured Solider! Does anyone know if you need a supurb socre to get into thoise ocupations???"
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-212604/topicseen.html#msg212604
> 
> "I plan to join the reserves, with an Infantry MOC. I hope the CFAT is alot easier than this test was.";
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-179521/topicseen.html#msg179521
> 
> "And for infantry, you don't need a very high score (I heard)."
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-87577/topicseen.html#msg87577
> 
> "For infantry you need to score 18/60...  "
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-58553/topicseen.html#msg58553
> 
> CFAT Test Results...what does it mean?
> "I‘m sure they have some room for you in the infantry, you don‘t need grade 12 math to know how to dig a hole  "
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-58394/topicseen.html#msg58394
> 
> Lots more Infantry CFAT discussions ...



 :nod:


----------



## yamahaguitarguy

Worry less about the minimum man. You should be aiming to get 100 percent. Also I found the verbal part of the test the hardest and the math the easiest. The verbal had words I had never seen before and I have lived in Canada all my life


----------



## Loachman

yamahaguitarguy said:
			
		

> The verbal had words I had never seen before and I have lived in Canada all my life



Those _*imported*_ words get them every time.


----------



## PMedMoe

yamahaguitarguy said:
			
		

> Worry less about the minimum man. You should be aiming to get 100 percent. Also I found the verbal part of the test the hardest and the math the easiest. The verbal had words I had never seen before



I'll agree with this post, both the aim for 100% and the remark about the verbal part.  I read a fair amount and most of the words were unfamiliar (albeit English  ).  Study etymology.  Go ahead, look it up.   :nod:



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> Those _*imported*_ words get them every time.



Maybe he was thinking about the Esperanto test.   ;D


----------



## Smith91

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. And don't worry, I definitely will aim for 100  %


----------



## swiftcharger

Hello lots of CFAT threads couldn't find much about this, just woundering if the testreadypro for CFAT is any good http://testreadypro.com/courseshop/products/114.html
I know its a lot of money but only got 4 days to study till my CFAT on may 15t
I heard you don't have to score that high for Infantry but I still want to get a score as high as I can ONLY GOT 20/40 right on the practice test they sent me :/
any feed back on this site?


----------



## SeR

This should give you a good idea about what some people think.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/73666/post-705792.html#msg705792

Personally, I wouldn't waste the money if I were you, but do whatever you feel you need to do to be ready for the test.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

I'm not familiar with the text you listed.

In all honestly, I'm concerned for you in that you said you only got 50% on the practice test. The practice test examples give you a general idea of what you can expect, but is not indicative of the actual difficulty level of writing the CFAT in its entirety.

There are some tips on study guides here, as well as many other useful tips in other threads, which I'm sure you've come across...

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/109801/post-1215472.html#msg1215472

Ideally, it may have been a good idea to give yourself lots of time to study a bit every day, rather than cramming. But good luck.


----------



## swiftcharger

> I'm not familiar with the text you listed.
> 
> In all honestly, I'm concerned for you in that you said you only got 50% on the practice test. The practice test examples give you a general idea of what you can expect, but is not indicative of the actual difficulty level of writing the CFAT in its entirety.
> 
> There are some tips on study guides here, as well as many other useful tips in other threads, which I'm sure you've come across...
> 
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/109801/post-1215472.html#msg1215472
> 
> Ideally, it may have been a good idea to give yourself lots of time to study a bit every day, rather than cramming. But good luck.



Well it mostly all the math problems, when I got answers wrong on the other stuff it was just me rushing.. I don't know why I did that but I'm thinking of just getting a tutor if its the math problems I'm having a hard time with
what do you think
and http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/test-examen/grt-erd/q-index-eng.php is the test I'm talking about


----------



## BeyondTheNow

swiftcharger said:
			
		

> Well it mostly all the math problems, when I got answers wrong on the other stuff it was just me rushing.. I don't know why I did that but I'm thinking of just getting a tutor if its the math problems I'm having a hard time with
> what do you think
> and http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/test-examen/grt-erd/q-index-eng.php is the test I'm talking about



That is definitely a hefty price in my opinion. I can't tell you whether it would be a good investment for you personally or not, but for _me_ I don't think it would have been.

Math is by far my weakest ability, but I was able to pass. (My highest high-school grade if I remember correctly was in the mid-60s, if that, and I wasn't in any advanced math courses [or perhaps 'academic' in your case, depending on your age] either.) I scored very well on my spacial aptitude and English components though. 

Do not rush during the test. Yes, you're timed, but don't rush. IMO, you're better off doing what you can thoroughly then going back to the ones that gave you the most difficulty--that's what worked for me.  If you feel a tutor is what will help you, go for it. I feel four days doesn't give you a substantial amount of time to really absorb what you need to in order to put it into practice under pressure though. (Well, for me it wouldn't have been unless able to spend, literally, the entire period doing it over and over again.)  But I don't know you, so maybe a few hours over that period will be all you need. Best of luck.


----------



## swiftcharger

> That is definitely a hefty price in my opinion. I can't tell you whether it would be a good investment for you personally or not, but for me I don't think it would have been.
> 
> Math is by far my weakest ability, but I was able to pass. (My highest high-school grade if I remember correctly was in the mid-60s, if that, and I wasn't in any advanced math courses [or perhaps 'academic' in your case, depending on your age] either.) I scored very well on my spacial aptitude and English components though.
> 
> Do not rush during the test. Yes, you're timed, but don't rush. IMO, you're better off doing what you can thoroughly then going back to the ones that gave you the most difficulty--that's what worked for me.  If you feel a tutor is what will help you, go for it. I feel four days doesn't give you a substantial amount of time to really absorb what you need to in order to put it into practice under pressure though. (Well, for me it wouldn't have been unless able to spend, literally, the entire period doing it over and over again.)  But I don't know you, so maybe a few hours over that period will be all you need. Best of luck.



Okay well thanks for the reply last question though if you dont mind, were you doing your CFAT for Infantry


----------



## BeyondTheNow

swiftcharger said:
			
		

> Okay well thanks for the reply last question though if you dont mind, were you doing your CFAT for Infantry



No, but everyone writes the same CFAT. One's overall score determines whether they qualify for the trades of their choice, or trades in general.


----------



## estoguy

If it costs money, don't bother.  You can find lots of stuff to bone up on math online for no cost.  Look for questions similar to the ones on the CFAT practice test.  If its a weak area, just keep practicing.  Don't waste any money.


----------



## kylereserve1

Hi all, I have my CFAT booked tomorrow. My question is do you have to score high on the aptitude to qualify for infantry for the reserves? I've brushed up on my math but I'm just wondering so I don't over-stress on it, thanks.


----------



## MikeL

CFAT score requirements are the same for Reserve and Regular Force.

You have to score high enough to qualify for your trade.  Just brush up on what is covered on the test,  don't over think/stress over it.


----------



## mariomike

kylereserve1 said:
			
		

> My question is do you have to score high on the aptitude to qualify for infantry for the reserves?



CFAT infantry score  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/110464/post-1227847.html#msg1227847


----------



## kylereserve1

Thank you, that was of much help. How would you dress for the CFAT anyways? Business casual or regular clothes? I don't want to walk in with the same business casual clothes for my cfat, then my physical, then back into those clothes in the same day since they are scheduled all in one day.


----------



## mariomike

kylereserve1 said:
			
		

> How would you dress for the CFAT anyways?



CFAT Dress Code  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105339.0


----------



## Cbbmtt

Hello,

Does your application get pushed through to testing if your roles you have chosen are not available? 

Should you do well on your CFAT and the careers you have chosen are unavailable, are you ever offered other positions that are open currently in the forces?


----------



## DAA

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> Does your application get pushed through to testing if your roles you have chosen are not available?
> Should you do well on your CFAT and the careers you have chosen are unavailable, are you ever offered other positions that are open currently in the forces?



Generally speaking, if your occupation choices are NOT available, then they probably wouldn't have you write the CFAT.  However, if they aren't and you do, then they should be counselling (ie; reorienting) you towards occupations which are currently available and if you are interested.

Occupations in the Primary Reserve (PRes) are "limited" and based solely on the respective Reserve Unit which referred you to the CFRC for testing.  So if you are applying PRes and have been referred to a CFRC, then there is the strong possibility that they have a position for you.

Regular Force is "totally" different.


----------



## Cbbmtt

DAA said:
			
		

> Generally speaking, if your occupation choices are NOT available, then they probably wouldn't have you write the CFAT.  However, if they aren't and you do, then they should be counselling (ie; reorienting) you towards occupations which are currently available and if you are interested.
> 
> Occupations in the Primary Reserve (PRes) are "limited" and based solely on the respective Reserve Unit which referred you to the CFRC for testing.  So if you are applying PRes and have been referred to a CFRC, then there is the strong possibility that they have a position for you.
> 
> Regular Force is "totally" different.




Thank you for the quick reply, and I don't mean to take over the thread.

I applied as a NCM for;
1)ACO
2)AESO
3)Firefighter

I understand firefight is a difficult position to get into, as well as AESO and I'm hoping to get one of the top two. I guess patience and a couple tests later and some more patience and we'll see


----------



## kylereserve1

I actually passed the CFAT and my physical yesterday and went through my interview, it was the biggest stress relief of my life. The officer who interviewed me was a great guy as well. The only thing left is my medical next monday and I'm slightly nervous for it because I'm about 10 pounds underweight, I'm nervous if they're going to hold me back because of that or anything, if anybody knows the rules for primary reserve and that type of stuff.


----------



## kylereserve1

Oh and it's alright Cbbmtt. Those are some great choices and I'm sure you'll do just fine, I wish the best of luck to you.


----------



## JorgSlice

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> Thank you for the quick reply, and I don't mean to take over the thread.
> 
> I applied as a NCM for;
> 1)ACO
> 2)AESO
> 3)Firefighter
> 
> I understand firefight is a difficult position to get into, as well as AESO and I'm hoping to get one of the top two. I guess patience and a couple tests later and some more patience and we'll see



Are they even offering Firefighter to the public? Last I heard it was a remuster-only trade. Even then, the few individuals I did known that went FF both internally and externally (many moons ago) had extensive experience as volunteer firefighters.

Good luck, nonetheless.


----------



## Cbbmtt

PrairieThunder said:
			
		

> Are they even offering Firefighter to the public? Last I heard it was a remuster-only trade. Even then, the few individuals I did known that went FF both internally and externally (many moons ago) had extensive experience as volunteer firefighters.
> 
> Good luck, nonetheless.



From what I have heard there is a long waiting list of members with the Forces that want to remuster into the Firefighter role, however they do accept outside applications, but usually only the ones with training or experience in the firefighter role can make it in. It's something I want to do but the other two choices with the Air Force are what I'm hoping for.


----------



## MNC

kylereserve1 said:
			
		

> I actually passed the CFAT and my physical yesterday and went through my interview, it was the biggest stress relief of my life. The officer who interviewed me was a great guy as well. The only thing left is my medical next monday and I'm slightly nervous for it because I'm about 10 pounds underweight, I'm nervous if they're going to hold me back because of that or anything, if anybody knows the rules for primary reserve and that type of stuff.



As long as you're generally healthy, there's no low/high weight limits for entry into the CF.  They may measure and calculate your BMI, but it's used more in a "big picture" sense of your overall health.  Remember, they're only there to screen for problems that might make you unable to do the standard tasks required generally of all CF members, and specifically for the trades you're requesting.  Most people who run into issues passing the enrolment medical do so because of significant or chronic medical problems, serious allergies, or poor vision (some trades require better vision than others).  In most cases the reserve and Reg Force medical standards are the same.  If you have a "borderline" medical issue, you'll usually be asked to have your civilian doctor provide input and clarification.  That happens to many, many applicants, so if it happens to you, don't panic.

Good luck!


----------



## kylereserve1

Thank you very much for the clearing that up, I wish I read it before I went in today worrying. But yes it was not an issue. Also, the second part of my test I did have to bring home a form to my family doctor for my hearing. I was told I had completely fine hearing, and I heard everything under 20 decibels. The only thing was he asked me if I hear any ringing in my ears, and I was being completely honest with him that I do hear some ringing when it's completely dead quiet, however people tell me it's' normal but he says it's not. So I just have to get that done with my family doctor. If there was any other medical concerns before they mail my stuff out to Ottawa that would restrict me from enrolling for my trade by the people who will review my files in Ottawa (if they do that), then I would be asked to bring any other forms for my family or civilian that you mentioned would be a "boarderline" medical issue, correct? It would be a big slap to the face if I got a call after that I was not medically fit weeks later because of any other medical concern they had about me that I was not informed about before they mailed my stuff out. Other than that I have overall great health, just maybe one or two things I brought up that I stated but was not a health problem slightly worries me.


----------



## xtreme

For people who are interested in if there is a correlation.

When I had first written the test (@ 21).  I did not qualify for Pilot,  I didn't even make Officer.

Ironic because later I graduated with a degree in Engineering & another in Physics -  with very high GPAs's.

As a result of my success in University, I was forwarded for psychometric testing (IQ) on the Stanford-Binet and Weschler Adult Scale, which were administered by professional psychologists.  I scored
close to the ceiling (145).  I made one mistake on a verbal question.

Several years later, often still wondering what happened on the CFAT.   I decided to write it again - after making a few changes in my life & attitude.

I qualified for Officer, with all trades about two years ago - including eligibility for pilot.

So what happened the first time?  How did I fail to make Officer - the first time?

#1.  Applicants with Mathematical/Science degrees, may have become overly reliant on calculators for the purpose of solving complex questions.  As a consequence their basic arithmetic is hindered.  Don't let your background make you over-confident.  Believe it or not, there ARE things that you did better when you were 14 than you do now.  We don't give basic arithmetic (multiplication, decimals, long-division)  much thought these days, because we're too focused on solving triple integrals and partial differential equations.  Whilst, you may still know how to do basic arithmetic, chances are your SPEED is horrible.

This is really important, because I was in shock, my recruiting officer was in shock and the Officer panel that interviewed me (in which I successful) were also shocked.  CF were so confident in my abilities, that I had my officer interview before the CFAT or Physical.  They thought I would ace it without a hitch.  That little pamphlet/flyer with 5  questions and my arrogance ultimately betrayed me.

Anyways, getting to the point - in terms of correlation with IQ.

When I had written the CFAT recently, I am positive that I made only one mistake - in the verbal section.  I had plenty of time to try to figure it out - but to no avail.  The rest of the test, I blazed through it with plenty of extra time in each section.

This *may* imply that the CFAT when statistically normed against legitimate psychometric IQ scales (Weschler, Stanford-Binet) - may have a ceiling of around 145.  Of course, this can be argued as scores on a professional psychometric test and the CFAT may not be comparable due to different population samples - I know this.  This is merely a hypothesis.

Therefore, to qualify for Officer, this may suggest a percentile score of 75% (top 25% candidates) - which may yield a minimum Officer IQ between 115-120, if you overlap this on Normal distribution (bell curve).

Before you go run off to write online IQ-tests.  Remember that online-IQ tests are hardly representative of real IQ scores.  IQ scores are standardized, normed on proper samples and tested in controlled environments.  You could try an online-IQ test for the sake of seeing whether - you are way off or not - in either direction.  But remember, it will hardly be a precise or reliable measure.

However, if you have been officially tested (for whatever reason, usually because of an Individual Education Plan (IEP) these days) - this may give you a rough benchmark.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Holy f*)@@!  Folks Dr. Sheldon Cooper has joined our forum!!!!!!

Psttttt.  I have a little story.  I quit high school before finishing Grade 12.  I then went back and got my *gasp* GED.  I went thru 3 years of college (yes, just college  :'().  I had to rewrite my CFAT about 7 years ago, because the trade I wanted to OT into didn't exist when I joined the CF.

I 'qualified' for Officer as well.   ;D  Welcome to the _Elite Club_!  Pull up a chare!!  8)


----------



## Nostix

But the masses demand to know: is there a correlation between IQ and crippling social ineptitude?


----------



## xtreme

LOL!

No discussion about CFAT details nor has this topic ever been discussed - based on my usage of the search function.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Dude I am sorry but everything you write now my brain reads it in either a "Dr Sheldon Cooper" or "Data" voice in my head.

Please refer to Example #1.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Why on earth did you think it was helpful to post this on this website?

Are you really that unloved at home that you need attention from an anonymous forum, and you think that posting your IQ stats will leave us all oooh-ing and aaaahhh-ing?

Guess what? I've met some pretty dense officers and some brilliant NCMs. I don't know, nor do I care, what they scored on the CFAT. 

Get over yourself.


----------



## xtreme

Well, I understand that IQ is a controversial topic.  I'm also aware that most people don't want to acknowledge the existence of cognitive differences, whilst in the same breath have no problem discussing height differences/requirements.  Of which, both are fundamentally physical manifestations (brain and legs both being body parts).

Moreover, there many that defend the logic behind aptitude testing in the CFAT as being one of the most fair, objective mechanisms for unbiased selection.  

Yet, they fail to see that aptitude testing is just a covert form of IQ testing with a measurable objective, where results are directly correlated to the average results of members in a particular occupation/trade.  This is how they determine based on your aptitude what trade you are suitable for, by comparing the 'commonality' of your scores with the scores of people demonstrably successful in that trade over time/history. 

Can it measure an excess or deficit of social ineptitude?  If that question proposed was an implication of my personal behaviour, the questioner should consider what measure of evidence is his hypotheses based upon, having no previous contact/knowledge/history with the subject to whom the question is directed to?

However, answering your question for the purpose of curiosity.  A test-maker could contrive of questions to reflect expectations of certain psychological response, of which the results could be tabulated and standardized against real-world measured responses, such as social-awkwardness, response to typical social scenario's, belief systems, etc.  Hope that answers your question.

No this is not about my IQ.  This about using knowledge of ceilings on standardized tests to develop a probable correlation.  If you don't understand this, then you don't understand the completely scientific approach I have attempted to use here, albeit with plenty of random variables.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

xtreme said:
			
		

> Can it measure an excess or deficit of social ineptitude?  If that question proposed was an implication of my personal behaviour, the questioner should consider what measure of evidence is his hypotheses based upon, having no previous contact/knowledge/history with the subject to whom the question is directed to?



This is quite possibly the funniest thing I've read on here in a while, considering nostix's comment.....


Listen, kid, I'll let you in on a secret.....NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR SCIENTIFIC METHOD. It's the CFAT, it's a test to make sure you have some cognitive ability (ie can breath and achieve locomotion unaided by man or machine). As long as you qualify for the trade you want who cares what the ceiling is?

Do you honestly think you'll show up to your first unit and your new CO will call you into his office, open a manila folder, and say 'hmm, says here you maxed out on the CFAT! Well, I'll be, I'll clean out my desk today and you can move in tomorrow'.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Part of me thinks  :facepalm: but..errr sorry....*_whilst_* the rest of me is doing this  op:.

Just let me get comfy here...thereeeeeeeeeeee we go.  Ok.  Roll 'em!   ;D


Wait...DAMMIT!  I knew I've seen this movie before.  It's a re-run!!


----------



## xtreme

Toward the Gap:

If you don't like the topic - you don't have to read it.  Like in the real world, if you don't like what somebody is saying - you can ignore it.  Unless of course, you are a jack-*** that has an uncontrollable compulsion and must add his two cents where not required - nor desired.

In the real world, you don't jump in screaming & yelling because somebody has said something to which you don't agree with.  If you absolutely must say something, there are ways to do so maturely.  

The compulsive behaviour you have just demonstrated is considerably worse, because Internet forums offer a huge degree of freedom to ignore, in which real life does not  i.e. stopping the sound waves from entering your ears.

If you don't like what I have to say - move on to another thread.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

xtreme said:
			
		

> If you don't like the topic - you don't have to read it.  Like in the real world, if you don't like what somebody is saying - you can ignore it.  Unless of course, you are a jack-*** that has an uncontrollable compulsion and must add his two cents where not required - nor desired.



You mean, something like this for example?  See what I did there??


----------



## George Wallace

This is the Recruiting thread and we surely don't want noobies to start running around in a  anic:

Can we all just   :chill:

I, like Towards_the_gap, live in a town where the Dunning-Kruger Effect has run rampant.  This topic may just fall into that category.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

xtreme said:
			
		

> Toward the Gap:
> 
> If you don't like the topic - you don't have to read it.  Like in the real world, if you don't like what somebody is saying - you can ignore it.  Unless of course, you are a jack-*** that has an uncontrollable compulsion and must add his two cents where not required - nor desired.
> 
> In the real world, you don't jump in screaming & yelling because somebody has said something to which you don't agree with.  If you absolutely must say something, there are ways to do so maturely.
> 
> The compulsive behaviour you have just demonstrated is considerably worse, because Internet forums offer a huge degree of freedom to ignore, in which real life does not  i.e. stopping the sound waves from entering your ears.
> 
> If you don't like what I have to say - move on to another thread.



Ok, let me try a different tack, since your superior IQ has obviously not grasped the point I was making. 

What possible benefit would any potential CF applicant derive from your original post?


----------



## Tralax

George Wallace said:
			
		

> This is the Recruiting thread and we surely don't want noobies to start running around in a  anic:
> 
> Can we all just   :chill:
> 
> I, like Towards_the_gap, live in a town where the Dunning-Kruger Effect has run rampant.  This topic may just fall into that category.



I have my CFAT today and I'm freaked out now!


----------



## xtreme

Silly me, for introducing a topic on IQ.  I forgot that the nature of the bell-curve dictates that I am completely outnumbered.

I apologize if I hurt some feelings.  It was my sincere intention to use a psychometric as a device to - predict - success on another psychometric such as the CFAT.

Knowledge of their inherent connection would be a viable and valuable mechanism to aid in maximizing potential of applicants before writing the test - where an entire career and future is dependent on.

As I stated, in the original post, I had once failed it and on another occasion scored almost - perfect on it.  The existence of this major discrepancy demonstrates the evidence of contrasting and almost polar results on the CFAT - without and with preparation respectively.  This is contrary to what some other members here say, some of whom have went as far to conclude that preparation wouldn't make a difference.

My purpose is help others find other psychometric tests that could be utilized for preparation before writing the real & final career/life determining deal.

I confirm that an 'educated' person has effed up this test too, and have done this at the expense of my ego/pride.  Which I did not have to expend, but for the purposes of attempting to enlighten others on matters of correlation, I offered my honest admission of prior failure.  As a side-effect, I hope it may provide some relief to those who have been disappointed with their own performance results on the CFAT.

I am not an Elitist nor do I really believe IQ itself is a complete measure of an abstract concept as intelligence.  It would be foolish to assert that an IQ score is the end-all, be-all of a human, particularly when concrete and very important domains can not be tested on paper.


----------



## George Wallace

Tralax said:
			
		

> I have my CFAT today and I'm freaked out now!



Don't be.


----------



## 63 Delta

xtreme said:
			
		

> Silly me, for introducing a topic on IQ.  I forgot that the nature of the bell-curve dictates that I am completely outnumbered.
> 
> I apologize if I hurt some feelings.  It was my sincere intention to use a psychometric as a device to - predict - success on another psychometric such as the CFAT.
> 
> Knowledge of their inherent connection would be a viable and valuable mechanism to aid in maximizing potential of applicants before writing the test - where an entire career and future is dependent on.
> 
> As I stated, in the original post, I had once failed it and on another occasion scored almost - perfect on it.  The existence of this major discrepancy demonstrates the evidence of contrasting and almost polar results on the CFAT - without and with preparation respectively.  This is contrary to what some other members here say, some of whom have went as far to conclude that preparation wouldn't make a difference.
> 
> My purpose is help others find other psychometric tests that could be utilized for preparation before writing the real & final career/life determining deal.
> 
> I confirm that an 'educated' person with a confirmed 'high IQ" has effed up this test too, and have done this at the expense of my ego/pride.  Which I did not have to expend, but for the purposes of attempting to enlighten others on matters of correlation, I offered my honest admission of prior failure.  As a side-effect, I hope it may provide some relief to those who have been disappointed with their own performance results on the CFAT.
> 
> I am not an Elitist nor do I really believe IQ itself is a complete measure of an abstract concept as intelligence.  It would be foolish to assert that an IQ score is the end-all, be-all of a human, particularly when concrete and very important domains can not be tested on paper.




I think this guy use to be my Troop Leader...  :facepalm:


----------



## George Wallace

HULK_011 said:
			
		

> I think this guy use to be my Troop Leader...  :facepalm:



Had one of those.  Wouldn't listen to over fifty years of experience from his Patrol Comds as why it is a bad idea to congregate the Troop on an intersection while clearing Laterals.  He is a major the last I heard.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Had one of those.  Wouldn't listen to over fifty years of experience from his Patrol Comds as why it is a bad idea to congregate the Troop on an intersection while clearing Laterals.  He is a major the last I heard.



What's wrong with that??  Makes it easier to use hand signals!!  ;D  




			
				xtreme said:
			
		

> my ego/pride.



Nice summary.  Good use of brevity, accurate.  Well done.

I'll throw something straight at you.  Maybe you are making a simple CFAT way too complicated with all your "Cain begat Able" talk.  Maybe follow-on readers will go "holy crap!  that guy is a genius and he failed, I'm doomed!"  Ever think of the 'real life' fall-out of your posts, vice your attempt to turn it into self-gratifying epiphany?  You know what I did to prep for my last CFAT?  I reviewed fractions on math.com; that is it.  I've already stated my Gr 12 is a GED.  And trust me, I am no genius. 

There is an old saying about 'making mountains out of mole hills'.  I think this thread is nothing more than you trying to appease your own ego and pride over  your first blow-out of the CFAT because, as you said, well the CFRC staff were _tripping_ over themselves trying to get you in the CF.


----------



## 63 Delta

Mine decided it was better to take his Patrol to Subway 20km's away from the front line, then support his two other Patrols that were in contact... Ya it took about 5 hours to finally link up

Was pretty funny watching him trying to explain all that to 9er though...


----------



## dimsum

I long for the days when there were no sites like this to prep for the CFAT.  Hell; I was 18, went on a bit of a calculated "rebellious streak" to the CFRC and had no idea what it was until I actually wrote it.  

Still turned out fine  :nod:


----------



## xtreme

Actually - forget it.

I just deleted my post, that explained in detail the variations between Officer CFAT scores and their side-effects to a person's application.

What's the point?  Here I am, trying to explain to strangers and quite possibly my competition on how they may perform exceptionally on their CFAT (and any other standardized test).  How they may improve the odds of entering their desired trade and how they may be able to get themselves into Officer and the Pilot trades - scientifically.  I wanted to provide practical suggestions and ideas on how this may be achieved.

Instead, on this forum - we get berated for introducing an intellectual - albeit controversial - discussion that may indeed enlighten members on how to take their tests optimally.  Advice coming from a somebody who has performed exceptionally well on the CFAT and exceptionally well on far more difficult tests than that.

I was going to show exactly how to prepare for this test (or any test) and how to utilize advanced test-taking strategies that I've used with success for myself.

Even if you have already written the CFAT.  Some of what I would have discussed, may have proven useful in other endeavors in life or CF career.


----------



## 63 Delta

xtreme said:
			
		

> Actually - forget it.
> 
> I just deleted my post, that explained in detail the variations between Officer CFAT scores and their side-effects to a person's application.
> 
> What's the point?  Here I am, trying to explain to strangers and quite possibly my competition on how they may perform exceptionally on their CFAT (and any other standardized test).  How they may improve the odds of entering their desired trade and how they may be able to get themselves into Officer and the Pilot trades - scientifically.  I wanted to provide practical suggestions and ideas on how this may be achieved.
> 
> Instead, on this forum - we get berated for introducing an intellectual - albeit controversial - discussion that may indeed enlighten members on how to take their tests optimally.  Advice coming from a somebody who has performed exceptionally well on the CFAT and exceptionally well on far more difficult tests than that.
> 
> I was going to show exactly how to prepare for this test (or any test) and how to utilize advanced test-taking strategies that I've used with success for myself.
> 
> Even if you have already written the CFAT.  Some of what I would have discussed, may have proven useful in other endeavors in life or CF career.



I guess were gonna be short officers this FY now...


----------



## George Wallace

You know, xtreme, I have run across officers who were NCMs.  They had "Photographic memories".  They could quote you chapter and verse anything that they had read.  They, no doubt, did very well on these tests.  Did it make them good officers in the end?  Not really.  Even though they knew the words from the texts, they were not good at interpreting them and recognizing that the texts were only guides and that in reality there were various shades of grey between the book's 'black and whites'.  Actually, that also had not made them all that great as NCOs, but they went onward and upward.   

Can you answer the next question: Are we looking for "Leaders" or "Managers"?


----------



## xtreme

George:

A balance of both, depending on rank and duties.


----------



## Journeyman

xtreme said:
			
		

> .....after making a few changes in my life & attitude.


I wouldn't stop making adjustments just yet.



And while it may come across as bragging, I too completed the CFAT.  :nod:


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Hey xtreme, are you even in the forces yet? 

If not, how about you use that megamind like brain of yours and analyze the fact that you have probably close to +100 years of combined military experience on this thread telling you that the CFAT is, in the big scheme of things, of absolute no importance over the span of a typical career, and that there are far greater and more important tests of natural intelligence, humanity and intellect that you will face as a soldier/sailor/airman on operations, some of which the penalty for failure is your life or the lives of others.

Edit to add:

To any applicants/potential applicants reading this gong-show, DO NOT SWEAT the CFAT test. Follow the tips on here, don't shell out money on silly websites which guarantee you to pass, and study for the test. It is a tool, albeit a very simple one, to test that you can follow written direction, perform basic arithmetic, and have some spatial cognition. 30 years into a long and successful career and I doubt you will even remember what you score was anyways. I know I don't.


----------



## PanaEng

Not sure what some of you are all "upset"/panties-in-a-knot about the OP.
It's just some geeky information, some may find it interesting, some amusing and some not. 
It may even help some with a similar way of thinking and be totally irrelevant to others - probably most of us.

He may have come across a bit arrogant - like to see his IQ score displayed on a forum...
But WTF do we care what someone wants to put here (about 4k of memory so far); if you are interested, read it and comment intelligently and if you are not, GTF somewhere else and comment on something that interest you.

Let Sheldon be!!!
If he posts something totally wrong and against the site rules, then there are ways for the admins to get rid of it.

CHIMO!


----------



## Journeyman

Well, personally, I just find it intriguing that someone so _obviously brilliant_tm has been posting on CFATs here since 2007.  For those who don't have the CFAT-blessed knowledge of higher mathematics, that's *six years* -- giving "advice" on CFATs* -- still with no indication that Sheldon's made it into the CF.



* Except for some minor tangent on having a thousand years of royal blood in his veins.  :not-again:


----------



## Jacky Tar

*xtreme*, the secret of doing well on a test isn't exacty a secret, and you are not the first to have (a) done well on the CFAT and/or (b) think you discovered something momentous WRT (a).

As for the question of do we want leaders or managers? Management is a part of leadership, but leading is not necessarily part of managership. So let us have leaders.

I have met officers who could take the square root of a pickle jar but couldn't lead a one-man rush on a two-man heads.


----------



## NavComm87

Our new friend "Shelden" is simply posting a possible correlation.

A first year course in any social science (not to mention a basic Statistics course) will teach you that CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION.

For example, I wrote the LSAT a year prior to writing the CFAT. But that doesn't mean that everyone who received my score on the LSAT will receive the same score as me on the CFAT (or vice versa).

The CFAT is a stand-alone aptitude test that has many dimensions, and can't really be compared to any other Aptitude Test (Be it IQ, LSAT, GMAT or so on).


----------



## medicineman

My   :2c: - when I wrote my CFAT a gazillion years ago (and qualified for Officer incidentally...and haven't had formal IQ testing), I was told at the outset that "...people with double Master's fail this and kids in junior high ace it..."

Only 2 of us out of the initial 12 that wrote got to the medical.

And that really means diddly squat in the grand scheme of things.

MM


----------



## Tralax

I just wrote the CFAT today and I did better than expected.  Being out of high school for 10 years kind of worried me but I did fine.  ;D


----------



## Towards_the_gap

How's the view from up there at the narrow reaches of the bell curve?


----------



## Loachman

I do not understand the animosity displayed to the OP at all. I did not take his post as bragging about his IQ, just expressing some natural curiosity.

Yes, none of us care about the inner workings (Electrical? Hydraulic? Clockwork?) of the CFAT, but if somebody else does, well, whatever floats their boat/turns their crank/greases their chicken etcetera. It's a big planet, with plenty of room for all and their fetishes.

Definitely more fun with a Sheldon voice, though.

And chicks dig polysyllabic words too.

Very entertaining.

And I am ecstatic that Journeyman passed his CFAT. I can sleep well tonight.


----------



## Shamrock

Loachman said:
			
		

> And chicks dig polysyllabic words too.



What does a lie detector have to do with this?


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Loachman said:
			
		

> I do not understand the animosity displayed to the OP at all. I did not take his post as bragging about his IQ, just expressing some natural curiosity.
> 
> Yes, none of us care about the inner workings (Electrical? Hydraulic? Clockwork?) of the CFAT, but if somebody else does, well, whatever floats their boat/turns their crank/greases their chicken etcetera. It's a big planet, with plenty of room for all and their fetishes.
> 
> Definitely more fun with a Sheldon voice, though.
> 
> And chicks dig polysyllabic words too.
> 
> Very entertaining.
> 
> And I am ecstatic that Journeyman passed his CFAT. I can sleep well tonight.



I read it as a pocket-(protector??) napoleon in a way... Maybe it just hit a nerve with me, being a high-school drop-out and all. 

But did the 'bell curve means I'm outnumbered in this conversation' not strike you as a little arrogant? ;D


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Shamrock said:
			
		

> What does a lie detector have to do with this?



No no no, he's talking about words from different educational syllabi (sp?)...... I think...


----------



## BeyondTheNow

I'm not entirely sure what is so upsetting here...although I can see how, perhaps, some aspects of the post came across as a little pretentious?  I personally don't feel that's how the OP intended to sound, however.


----------



## DVC185

xtreme said:
			
		

> Moreover, .....



I truly detest the use of the word moreover to start a sentence.

Most normal folks think those who start a sentence with the word moreover are, in all probability, a high fallutin butthead.

You may wish to find somewhere else to discuss your IQ and how it correlates to stuff.

And hey Sheldon, can ya leave Penny here with the guys please?


----------



## CombatDoc

xtreme said:
			
		

> Instead, on this forum - we get berated for introducing an intellectual - albeit controversial - discussion that may indeed enlighten members on how to take their tests optimally.  Advice coming from a somebody who has performed exceptionally well on the CFAT and exceptionally well on far more difficult tests than that.


xtreme, thank you for your unsolicited advice from the extreme tail of the bell curve.  You are clearly a superior IQ, and as you have pointed out most of the respondents to your post fail to appreciate your intellectual and academic talents.  

For everyone else, may I suggest that we don't feed the trolls?


----------



## Shamrock

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> I'm not entirely sure what is so upsetting here...although I can see how, perhaps, some aspects of the post came across as a little pretentious?  I personally don't feel that's how the OP intended to sound, however.



I'd never deign expect you lower curvesmen to understand a topic so complex.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Shamrock said:
			
		

> I'd never deign expect you lower curvesmen to understand a topic so complex.



lol, yes, us "lower curvesmen" indeed need to be enlightened from time to time, I suppose...


----------



## xtreme

Let me clarify the things I can't do.

1.  I can't be the guy who can lift two soldiers on each shoulder and carry them out of a battlefield.
2.  I can't be the guy who runs the fastest through a line of fire to accomplish a short-term objective.
3.  It is unlikely, I could be the guy who will have the stamina to run into a burning building and carry out a number of people.

I acknowledge that I am not the strongest nor the fastest person, traits that are incredibly important.  My "strong-Q" and/or my "speed-Q" are likely to be only average.  This fact is accepted and this knowledge can be used to confidently rely on others who possess the appropriate talents to make up for what I don't possess.  Nobody is perfect.  A good team will identify strengths and weaknesses of the group and delegate tasks accordingly.

I am a proficient problem-solver and voracious learner, theoretically or practically.  Just as good with a wrench as with a pencil.  

It appears that, some people become acutely sensitive to the topic of differences in cognitive ability.  Like physical differences, there - are - very real mental differences.  I am not talking about education.  Educated people may be smart - but not all smart people are educated - often for a variety of legitimate reasons.  This is why the CFAT should be - praised.

This IQ that has some panties in a knot, may prove useful when a MacGyver (/Sheldon)/strategist is required under intense fire.

Some have recognized this topic was not intended to subjugate the self-confidence of any person, but instead to further dissect the CFAT without reiterating content already previously discussed - for the objective of helping test-takers better understand their - own - abilities when researching a trade and preparing to qualify for that trade accurately and scientifically.


----------



## Journeyman

*SeR*, I awarded MilPoints to your most recent post (not in this tread), but on the basis of your MilPoint comment on this tread.  Thanks.

:rofl:


....and his posts _are_ much better if read with Sheldon's voice in your head.   ;D


----------



## xtreme

To aid your imagination whilst narrating my posts in your head.

I have a deep-voice, concatenate that to the imagery of Sheldon constructed in your visualization.

Enjoy.


----------



## Journeyman

"Concatenate"?   GTFO!   ;D


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I love these threads.  I was paying $8/month for Netflix until I found this one!!   op:


----------



## Journeyman

I usually try to avoid Recruiting threads.  Why didn't anyone tell my just how much self-proclaimed awesomeness I've been missing?!


----------



## xtreme

Journeyman,

?

I'm assuming that in your subjective perception - this word is valued at $20?  

I apologize that I'm not consciously aware that I do this nor do I understand why this is somehow negatively perceived.  

I am speaking English after-all?


----------



## turretmonster

Just wait until we inculcate you into the Army way of thinkin buddy..  
Its 40 dollar word day here at Army.ca..
Next!!
TM


----------



## Journeyman

xtreme said:
			
		

> I am speaking English after-all?


 Absolutely.  And you keep at it; I'm having a blast.   :nod:

There's a quote from Airman First-class Adrian Cronauer to Sergeant-Major Dickerson that just escapes me, but I'm sure it's fitting.


----------



## DVC185

xtreme said:
			
		

> *voracious
> subjugate *



Well Sheldon, can't say as I have ever used these words on a forum when discussing a topic among "friends" and co-workers.

I would really enjoying watching you attempt a _*'MacGyver'*_ in a tough, but not life threatening, situation. Please leave Penny at home when you try it though....

Edit: Holy smokes!!! And *[size=18pt]concatenate*[/size] is a real word too!!!! This guy is ready for staff college.


----------



## xtreme

Second-language training?  The Forces should invest in English-language training - first.  God-forbid that the Taliban may speak better English.

TurretMonster,

I was concerned that I'm attracting a mob of people whu speek lyk dis, b-cuz itz iz tha way 2 b kool and acceptud and i shuld cunform 2 der standurds.
  
*phew, thank you .. and the Army still has hope. 

DVC185,

It is unwise to underestimate people you don't know.


----------



## DVC185

xtreme said:
			
		

> It is unwise to underestimate people you don't know.



You are quite right but I think my gut feel is correct. Penny and I will continue to enjoy the comedy.  op:


----------



## Eye In The Sky

xtreme said:
			
		

> It is unwise to underestimate people you don't know.



Okay _that_ one was in the Lenoard Nimoy _Spock_ voice for sure!  *golf clap*

I'm waiting for the Yoda-ism with the follow-on "Yoda Chuckle"....


----------



## xtreme

Some of you guys are actually funny - seriously.

But I assure you, I don't sound like Spock, Yoda or Sheldon.

Well I hope.


----------



## JM2345

xtreme said:
			
		

> Let me clarify the things I can't do.
> 1.  I can't be the guy who can lift two soldiers on each shoulder and carry them out of a battlefield.



Unless you have some sort of underlying medical condition which would likely preclude you from CF employment, I don't see why you can't be the guy who can lift two soldiers on each shoulder and carry them out of a battlefield. If you bulked up to around 340 pounds with a proper diet and training regimen specifically designed around lifting and carrying soldiers on your shoulders, and disregarded any need for proper form, while also accounting for the adrenaline which would be coursing through your body, I think you could do it. Granted they wouldn't be the biggest soldiers, but I still hate to see you sell yourself short with such a definitive and absolute statement like that.


----------



## dapaterson

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> But did the 'bell curve means I'm outnumbered in this conversation' not strike you as a little arrogant? ;D



Depends which side of the curve he's on - it could be humility...

(Also depends which distribution we're talking about - IQ or social graces).


----------



## SeR

xtreme said:
			
		

> Some of you guys are actually funny - seriously.



What's funny is that some troll by the pretentious name of _xtreme_ has come to this site, essentially claiming that they have discovered *THE* secret of studying for the dreaded CFAT, when in reality, the recruiters will generally tell you what to expect prior to the date of the test.

Journeyman - I'm just glad I could add to this already humorous thread.  


*For the record, anybody can sit behind a keyboard with a thesaurus on their lap.


----------



## X2012

Not to get too much back on the original topic, but the conclusions are logically flawed.

xtreme, all you have is one data point for IQ and two test results under different testing conditions, so you really don't have enough to say anything at all. But let's just continue with the available data. In theory, your age-matched IQ score shouldn't change greatly over time/education (to a point, I know, but still from 21 up it should be relatively stable unless something really abnormal happens). So what you've actually shown is that the CFAT is not strongly correlated to IQ, but may correlate to familiarity of the type of testing and test preparation. This is a much more supportable conclusion from the anecdotal evidence on this site. You don't even have enough to say that IQ may be linked to your highest possible score, because you only have your information. Your attempt at correlation is really useless because you simply don't have the data, this is bad science/analytics. You'd need way more information and a good statistical analysis to draw any conclusions.

The use and usefulness of IQ testing and what it is actually testing are a whole other can of worms, as you said.

Really, the only thing that can be concluded from the data you present is that practice is important in performance, and this fact has already been established by others.


----------



## xtreme

Well done X2012,

As stated in my original post, there are plenty of random variables - but these could be resolved.

I did not draw a conclusion but instead demonstrated an example that shows a possible methodology for how a raw IQ score could be correlated to the CFAT.  

No doubt - Accuracy, resolution, variance & extrapolation of a conclusion would be refined using more data-points/samples (people).

The first step would be for volunteers (the more the better) who have written the CFAT that know if they have aced it, near-aced it or feel as though they made less than 2% error (i.e. 98%) to complete another psychometric.  An online psychometric (to aid practicality) would be sufficient provided all participants complete the same test under the same conditions and if participants adhere to an honesty principle.  They don't need to take it at the same time, just follow typical test rules i.e. no cheating.

The averaging of results of these participants can be used to establish the lowest IQ on that "online psychometric" that correlates to a maximum/perfect score on the CFAT.  This would then calibrate and establish a maximum boundary - on the CFAT and the online test.   (Assuming the IQ test has a higher ceiling than the CFAT.  If not, it is easy to reverse it.)

Using the nature of the bell-curve and this data, other people who take that online psychometric, their IQ scores could be interpolated backwards to yield a 'predicted' score/performance on the CFAT - by literally overlapping both distributions.  The methodology would become increasingly accurate as the number of participants increase, to an extent that the particular online psychometric test could become a reliable measure.

As the number of participants increase, it is also possible that the maximum boundary could shift higher (or lower) - shifting all scores.  

For example. Maybe I am an outlier.  Perhaps, 145 is not required to ace the CFAT.  If other participants that have aced the CFAT receive lower scores on the online psychometric, this will shift the boundaries lower.  Thereby also yielding a different threshold for minimum Officer requirements than what I previously stated.  This is why its' absolutely essential to have more than one data point.

Before this method could be used for reliable success a large sample of participants should be collected (i.e. normalizing) before anybody should use (or at least become dependent on) their 'predicted' score.

This is not as hard as it sounds, it's as simple as - anybody - who has written the CFAT already to write another designated online IQ test and volunteer their CFAT score (or all the trades qualified for), whether it be a guesstimate or not to the best of their honest ability.  All anonymous of course.  

The analysis could be further improved if the online test -requires- all participants who have written the CFAT to list the trades they qualified for.  This may then yield an added benefit of determining what occupations require aptitude in what particular sections, by examining their performance on the various sections of the IQ test.

As for the age concern, it is said that, IQ and age-dependency is less of a factor after 16.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

But you have yet to answer the one pertinent question.


What is the point? And please, in 100 words or less.


----------



## xtreme

- To understand what abilities are required to do X-trade.

- To determine, in advance, the type of subjects a student should focus on in high-school if they wish to do X-trade.

- To determine, in advance, the type of subjects/programs a student should pursue in College and/or University (if they are consider the DEO route) and understand what they are capable of.  Acquiring relevant academic knowledge/experience useful in the desired trade alongside natural aptitude .  Thereby creating the most effective application for that trade (if it is competitive).

i.e.  A student doing poorly in Grade 11 Math may assume, he sucks at Math and be led to believe he has no aptitude in Math.  He may never pursue this route.  However, there is the possibility that his teacher was just incompetent/crap and a jack-***.  

Not all teachers are equal.

- To aid in preparation and maximizing potential.

- For fun and understanding how & why the Military tests us.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

So you think the recruiting system does a poor job of this already? I'd say it's pretty well laid out on the website and in the careers brochures what you need to be proficient at in order to join a certain trade. 90% of what we do in the forces is hardly rocket science.


----------



## hambley92

I can't believe I just read this whole thread, but I'm sure glad I did. Thanks for the laughs.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> But you have yet to answer the one pertinent question.
> 
> 
> What is the point? And please, in 100 words or less.



 ;D


----------



## Journeyman

OK, OK, going through your spam I see that you posted an almost identical "hey, lets all do an IQ test and compare it with the trade selected" post back in 2007.  Scrolling back a bit further it turns out you started attempting CFATs in *2002* -- wow, that's an awful lot of time for such a simple test.

I'm guessing that, in your scientific self-congratulations, you've hoped that in the intervening six years....or perhaps eleven.....humanity will have evolved sufficiently to see your brilliance.  Instead, what we have is many years of simple, repetitive trolling.

 :boring:

I suppose we can look forward to this dragging on for another day or two of people mocking you beyond your comprehension, then you posting the same drivel in another half-decade or so.  









   <ignore>


----------



## Sadukar09

xtreme said:
			
		

> - To understand what abilities are required to do X-trade.
> 
> - To determine, in advance, the type of subjects a student should focus on in high-school if they wish to do X-trade.
> 
> - To determine, in advance, the type of subjects/programs a student should pursue in College and/or University (if they are consider the DEO route) and understand what they are capable of.  Acquiring relevant academic knowledge/experience useful in the desired trade alongside natural aptitude .  Thereby creating the most effective application for that trade (if it is competitive).
> 
> i.e.  A student doing poorly in Grade 11 Math may assume, he sucks at Math and be led to believe he has no aptitude in Math.  He may never pursue this route.  However, there is the possibility that his teacher was just incompetent/crap and a jack-***.
> 
> Not all teachers are equal.
> 
> - To aid in preparation and maximizing potential.
> 
> - For fun and understanding how & why the Military tests us.



160 words.

Failure to follow instructions.


----------



## dimsum

Forget the CF; he should be in DRDC.  

Staff or subject, I'll let you guys decide.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Staff or subject



Is there a difference?

But yes, this man belongs in Suffield no doubt.


----------



## Loachman

Long before Al Gore invented the Interweb, which encourages kids to worry themselves halfway to death about such things as CFATs, I wandered into the Recruiting Centre in London and wrote the CFAT. No worrying, no questions to dozens/hundreds of strangers, no practising, nothing - I just wrote the damned thing.

I have no idea what my score was, not do or did I care.

I just wrote it, as did thousands before me and thousands since.

And I's a Pilot.

Big deal.

We had a really bright guy on one of my Squadrons a few years ago. He was (and probably still is) a nice, decent, friendly fellow, with an amazing intellect. He was a Reserve Pilot, a wheat farmer, and a research scientist specializing in aviation simulation.

He would write pages and pages of notes after each and every flight for later review.

He was a fine enough Pilot, but never seemed to have any real feeling for flying or for the tactical application of the machine. Everything was over-analyzed and over-calculated.

Trying to figure out what subjects kids should take in high school just to pass a test is foolishness. Just get a well-rounded education, put maximum effort into everything, develop some decent situational awareness and an ability to relax, and go and see a recruiter.


----------



## Sadukar09

:goodpost:

MP inbound.


----------



## skyhigh10

Pretty sure I have vertigo after reading through this thread. 

I think this topic could have seen its end long ago if the OP stated something like .... "  Kids, if you don't  qualify for your trade the first time around,  it's not over!  Study the three main areas and just give it your best shot and don't make the same mistake twice" 

On a serious note, I once upon a time viewed this test as the apocalypse.. Being given a final shot at the CFAT after graduating from two post sec programs, I went into study /over kill mode. I studied similar questions found on each section of the CFAT 4 hours a day for months leading up to the rewrite. I reviewed hundreds upon hundreds of common GRE words and their respective synonyms. I bough spatial books and worked very hard on my arithmetic. 

I qualified. Not that big of a deal butttttttttttttt, it's just one of many hurtles.  (insert maverick on motorcycle +  fist pump in air here)   

At which venue will we be proceeding with my knighting ceremony?    


Xtreme, surely you can "intellectually" understand why many seem to have a morsel of hostility towards your posts.


----------



## xtreme

It amazes me to see how many intelligent people here understand very little about subjective experience/reality.

What may seem easy to - you - may not seem easy to somebody else.

I've been informed that some people here have phD's, MSc's and MA's.  Intriguing, they somehow believe their perception of the CFAT would be identical to an 18 year old high-school dropout.  

Members with -advanced degrees- are suggesting to some possible drop-outs that "the CFAT's  so easy, just walk in, it will be a piece of cake."  Neglecting the influence of background/academic/life experience on subjective perception.

Analogy:  Would a Surgeon -see- the CFAT the same way as an 18 year-old drop-out?  

I respect the opinions of some members on this forum, i.e. Loachman who I have followed around here and is a source of valuable insight with the maturity not to berate to make his point.

I've written the CFAT - twice.  Messed up the first time.  Abandoned the idea.  Got curious, re-written the test - 9 years later.  Whilst, in the mean-time, obtained further qualifications in general, capital, experience & maturity.  The only steps I took to improve my score drastically was to -speed- up my basic arithmetic - just stopped using calculators at work in general.  Aced the CFAT.

For the record - I do not think I am better than anybody and I think I've made this clear in several posts.  Likewise, admitting failures & imperfections would be a bad approach to portray superiority.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

xtreme said:
			
		

> It amazes me to see how many intelligent people here understand very little about subjective experience/reality.
> 
> What may seem easy to - you - may not seem easy to somebody else.
> 
> Do you really think none of us here realise this?
> 
> I've been informed that some people here have phD's, MSc's and MA's.  Intriguing, they somehow believe their perception of the CFAT would be identical to an 18 year old high-school dropout.
> 
> Likewise, there are people here who ARE high school drop outs, who passed the CFAT with flying colours.
> 
> Members with -advanced degrees- are suggesting to some possible drop-outs that "the CFAT's  so easy, just walk in, it will be a piece of cake."  Neglecting the influence of background/academic/life experience on subjective perception.
> 
> Analogy:  Would a Surgeon -see- the CFAT the same way as an 18 year-old drop-out?
> 
> Of course not, and yet both have an equal chance of passing it
> 
> I respect the opinions of some members on this forum, i.e. Loachman who I have followed around here and is a source of valuable insight with the maturity not to berate to make his point.
> 
> I've written the CFAT - twice.  Messed up the first time.  Abandoned the idea.  Got curious, re-written the test - 9 years later.  Whilst, in the mean-time, obtained further qualifications in general, capital, experience & maturity.  The only steps I took to improve my score drastically was to -speed- up my basic arithmetic - just stopped using calculators at work in general.  Aced the CFAT.
> So when do you start BMQ then?
> 
> 
> For the record - I do not think I am better than anybody and I think I've made this clear in several posts.  Likewise, admitting failures & imperfections would be a bad approach to portray superiority.
> 
> But then again, posting your IQ score, and commenting on other threads about your physics/engineering degrees, is equally not the best way to portray humility


----------



## PMedMoe

xtreme said:
			
		

> What may seem easy to - you - may not seem easy to somebody else.



I always thought that's why it's called an _aptitude_ test.....silly me.   :dunno:


Oh, and for the record, I qualified for all trades, including officer, both times I did the test*.  Without studying.   

*The second time I wrote was an "update" at the request of the BPSO, since I had done the "old" CFAT.


----------



## xtreme

Once a person has attained higher education, particularly graduate-level degrees, there is no doubt it would influence their subjective experience.  A person who becomes accustomed to solving half-page questions in Thermodynamics for years, will perceive a one-liner math question in a different light, than students that dropped out of school - that may have dropped out because of those one-liners. 

Students may benefit significantly with a bit of preparation so that he/she would be on a somewhat 'equal' playing field with another person that had opportunities/privileges in life to study for - years - the "hard" math/sciences and that as a result acquired amazing test-taking skills.  Why is this so difficult to understand?

Furthermore, the CFAT -does- assess previous knowledge/experience, evidenced by the verbal reasoning section.  This implies that some people will have an advantage over others based on their exposure and experience - sourced easily from education.  Segregating educated members and creating the inability to empathize with drop-outs with their perceptions of the CFAT.  i.e. Impossible to know.

I don't object to the importance of verbal reasoning, language is an important skill, but it is a section on a test where experience/education can have a huge impact.  

i.e. I did not always sound like Sheldon.

If that still doesn't convince you.  Ask yourself whether preparation would hurt a person's outcome?

Anyways, I'm not such a bad person and the tone of articulation has been incorrectly perceived, realized if you got to know me in person.  The internet is devoid of important non-verbal communication.

If anybody is down, a round or three of beers on me.  Just to shoot the sh!t.


----------



## Remius

You know, when I was a recruiter we used to tell people not to fret too much about the aptitude test.  But that they could prepare by taking similar tests online.  We also told people that it was pretty much at the grade ten level for math and language.  

The thing is, is that it purports to be an aptitude test but it is also a screening tool as well.  We had plenty of university level types fail or not qualify for officer but by virtue of having a degree they were granted CFAT waivers if they failed.  Some trades wouldn't write the CFAT at all because really it was dumb in some cases.  Like a Med O.  When we really needed them.   We also had fully qualified Sgts not achieve the mark they needed for their own trade.

On the old CFAT, for those that remember that one, with the engine parts?  If you answered C on everything you were in.  

So yes, I've seen a master's educated guy walk away in tears because he thought he was stupid for not achieving the score he needed to be a Sig Op in the reserves.  It is not all about IQ because it is not really an IQ test.  While IQ or basic knowledge of math and language play a part of it is also about stress and time management (30 questions in 30 mins for example) and how about making the right decision in the time alloted.  Plenty of people circle a bunch of answers in the last few seconds because they ran out of time.  Others don't because they are too focused on getting the right answer and don't complete the test.  Guess who has the better chance?

So some minor research on how to write these kinds of tests does not hurt.

Funny, when I left the Recruiting system, Cook was the trade with the lowest score required for aptitude.  Yet it required more education and advanced math than most other NCM trades. 

Anyway, it's been a while and things may have changed but CFAT does not mean IQ test.  And I doubt there is any correlation worth looking at between them since your IQ isn't what we are looking at when we are recruiting.  If it was, well maybe, just maybe, we'd be making people take an IQ test?  But we don't and frankly we don't care what your IQ is.


----------



## skyhigh10

Crantor said:
			
		

> You know, when I was a recruiter we used to tell people not to fret too much about the aptitude test.  But that they could prepare by taking similar tests online.  We also told people that it was pretty much at the grade ten level for math and language.
> 
> The thing is, is that it purports to be an aptitude test but it is also a screening tool as well.  We had plenty of university level types fail or not qualify for officer but by virtuie of having a degree they were granted CFAT waivers if the failed.  Some trades wouldn't write the CFAT at all because really it was dumb in some cases.  Like a Med O.  When we really needed them.   We also had fully qualified Sgts not achieve the mark they needed for their own trade.
> 
> On the old CFAT, for those that remember that one, with the engine parts?  If you answered C on everything you were in.
> 
> So yes, I've seen a master's educated guy walk away in tears because he thought he was stupid for not achieving the score he needed to be a Sig Op in the reserves.  It is not all about IQ because it is not really an IQ test.  While IQ or basic knowledge of math and language play a part of it is also about stress and time management (30 questions in 30 mins for example) and how about making the right decision in the time alloted.  Plenty of people circle a bunch of answers in the last few seconds because they ran out of time.  Others don't because they are too focused on getting the right answer and don't complete the test.  Guess who has the better chance?
> 
> So some minor research on how to write these kinds of tests does not hurt.
> 
> Funny, when I left the Recruiting system, Cook was the trade with the lowest score required for aptitude.  Yet it required more education and advanced math than most other NCM trades.
> 
> Anyway, it's been a while and things may have changed but CFAT does mean IQ test.  And I doubt there is any correlation worth looking at between them since your IQ isn't what we are looking at when we are recruiting.  If it was, well maybe, just maybe, we'd be making people take an IQ test?  But we don't and frankly we don't care what your IQ is.



 :goodpost:


----------



## Nostix

Crantor said:
			
		

> The thing is, is that it purports to be an aptitude test but it is also a screening tool as well.  We had plenty of university level types fail or not qualify for officer but by virtue of having a degree they were granted CFAT waivers if they failed.



Out of curiosity, when was this policy in effect? Or is it still ongoing?


----------



## Remius

Nostix said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity, when was this policy in effect? Or is it still ongoing?



Can't say if it is or not.  It was case by case back then when I was there.  I've been out of that business for over 5 years now and things there changed on a daily basis.


----------



## xtreme

Thanks Crantor for your experiential insight.

You are right.  When I was young kid (a long time ago), the recruiters told me exactly what you did, except online-IQ tests and forums/topics like these were not as prevalent then.  He said the CFAT was nothing to worry about, here's a pamphlet with 5 questions, if you can solve it, you're good to go.  I did just that.  Well those 5 questions were hardly representative of the test.  The pamphlet was dangerous, opposed to being helpful because it instilled a false sense of confidence.  Without the misleading pamphlet I would have been more diligent in basic preparation (like sleeping on time) had I known I was going into the unknown.

I was offered a possible waiver too, but I refused that route.  I did not want favours due to being educated.  I knew that I would never be happy with myself if I used a loophole in and would always have lingering doubts about my abilities, that I know were not accurately represented that day.  I wanted to qualify for my trade purely on my merit - fairly represented by my maximum potential.  Which I did later and aced it.

Unfortunately I have to disagree with you on what constitutes an IQ or Aptitude test.  They are fundamentally the same, except that an Aptitude test does not give you a singular score on your overall intelligence but assesses a score(s) on different types of test elements to determine the strongest intelligence type - under the theory of 'multiple intelligences.'

If you look at the type of questions on the CFAT practice and the type on an IQ test, they are almost identical.  Moreover, an IQ test does measures speed/stress and even logical guessing/deduction.  The only difference between an IQ test and an Aptitude test is how the results are used to determine trades.  In both cases, there will be a numerical score that 'defines you' that would be used for comparison.

Therefore a correlation can be made possible.

The point of my original post was to highlight the importance of preparation, nothing that is harmful or dangerous to anybody's health.  I figured by sharing my story, it would open some eyes so that I can prevent the disappointment, discouragement and embarrassment that I first experienced (very successful at the Officer interview and now I had to explain why I'm suddenly changing my mind.)  

Those who have been successful underestimate how those who were not successful feel.  Notice that many people who have said the CFAT is easy have also stated they were successful.  You won't (obviously) see them say "the CFAT is easy, oh but I failed it."   

I'm sure there is a large silent group out there that totally understands where I am coming from, but for obvious reasons, not everybody is brave enough to admit they failed to qualify for their trade - let alone failed the test altogether.  Particularly if they feel they were conned by that unrepresentative pamphlet.


----------



## SeR

xtreme said:
			
		

> I'm sure there is a large silent group out there that totally understands where I am coming from, but for obvious reasons, not everybody is brave enough to admit they failed to qualify for a trade - let alone failed the test altogether.  Particularly if they feel they were conned by that unrepresentative pamphlet.



It's an _*anonymous*_ internet forum. I wouldn't say they have a lack of bravery, seeing that no one would know them. I'd say it's more likely a lack of interest.

On another note, the CFAT is more of a tool to test whether or not one is capable of completing (sub) grade 10 math and language without the use of a calculator and a dictionary, not the intellectual potential of an applicant - simple as that.


----------



## Remius

xtreme said:
			
		

> Thanks Crantor for your experiential insight.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I have to disagree with you on what constitutes an IQ or Aptitude test.  They are fundamentally the same, except that an Aptitude test does not give you a singular score on your overall intelligence but assesses a score(s) on different types of test elements to determine the strongest intelligence type - under the theory of 'multiple intelligences.'



You can disagree if you want to but your are not correct. 

Here, simple google search will explain the difference in very common language.  

http://www.ehow.com/about_7231315_intelligence-tests-vs_-aptitude-tests.html

And in regards to the waiver thing.  It has nothing to do with giving you a pass or doing you afavour.  It has everything to do with the fact that the CFAT isn't perfect and that sometimes the CF tries to be more efficient.

Why would we turn away a Doctor when the CFAT says he doesn't have the aptitude when he's been practising for 5 years?  Or the liscensed mechanic who fails to meet the V-tech score even though he's journeyman qualified.  It isn't about doing you, the applicant the favour.  It's about doing ourselves (the CF)the favour by modifying our practices to not turn away talent based on the stupidity that the system can sometimes be.


----------



## kevincanada

Xtreme:

You are just one view, I sadly feel I must disagree with you on a couple points.  If anyone wants information I suggest they ask their recruiter.  There is sworn confidentiality by everyone on this forum who has written the test.  Even if they want to talk about it to help others out they can't.  By making public associations regarding test you are probably pushing the envelope for breaking the confidentially agreement you have sworn to uphold when you took the test yourself.

I don't think you should be discussing the CFAT at all.  At best if anyone asks, you should point them to the Forces.ca website where they can look up recruiter information themselves and have their questions answered that way.  That way you are in the clear and test takers still get the relevant answers they need.

Second point
"Those who have been successful underestimate how those who were not successful feel."

How do you know this?  How do you know how the current serving members feel about others feelings?  Or I do? or some other test taker does?  I can safely say that is you own personal opinion and does not reflect the opinions of others.

Please stop discussing CFAT and instead point potential canidates in the proper direction namely.  www.forces.ca website.

Edit: change a couple words to be intentionally vague.


----------



## xtreme

SER,

Anonymous or not.  Some anonymous members who frequent and participate here regularly, may value the integrity of their handle, that they may have been using for years, that it becomes their name/identity.

You don't understand the relationship between the word Aptitude and Potential Ability?

Cranton,

Did you actually read the link you provided?  It describes the exact differences I -just- mentioned.  It may be helpful when conducting a brute-force search into Google that returns any result, to cross-check that result with the point you are trying to make.  (No offense).

As for your second point.  I agree completely and I'm sure in previous posts, the various issues with the CFAT were discussed, particularly it being an excellent tool to grossly misrepresent a candidate.

KevinCanada,

If you read carefully in the last message, I compared the -CFAT Practice- (publicly available) to an IQ test.  No crime done.

Jeez!

Lets hope Canada never gets into a war with China.


----------



## PMedMoe

xtreme said:
			
		

> Let*'*s hope Canada never gets into a war with China.


   (FTFY)

Why, because they do an IQ test for military entry?


----------



## Remius

To be honest you are making way to much about the CFAT than it deserves.  You are over analysing something that just does not need it.  The best advice is for people to just go talk to people that actually work in recruiting about the CFAT.  They've all taken it, know how to administer it and likely know how it is interpreted.  

I realise you are offering your opinion and really there's nothing wrong with that but.  You screwed up by your own admission. You were over confident (something you have shown us here) and botched it the first time you went in.  You have subtly tried to blame that on the info you were given, ie the example test (which ironically people complained and asked for that sort of thing).  Ultimately in most cases the applicant does it to him or herself.  The CFAT is no big deal, it's a grade ten level test.  Nerves, poor planning the night before or poor assumptions is what leads to failure.  I had one guy with a degree no less, request to write the test in French because for some odd reason he thought that gave him a better chance at getting a spot.  He failed, miserably.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you probably over analysed the test the first time and that's why you failed.  You also over analysed the waiver being offered to you and you are over analysing this now.

I'll give you one piece of advice about the CF.   Short, to the point and get er'done.  At least for the first few years of your career.  When you've practiced that for a bit then you can go up the chain and start dissecting policy, tests and put your brain to work on those things.

And for the record I don't think you are being out of line for bringing all of this up, but you are actually getting the benefit of experience from a lot of people here but you don't seem to have your radio set to receive.


----------



## JM2345

xtreme said:
			
		

> Lets hope Canada never gets into a war with China.



Would you hope Canada gets into a war with China under some other circumstances related to CFAT or IQ testing? Or was this just a random "thought of the day" you decided to leave us with?


----------



## Jarnhamar

An empty mind is a loyal mind but a questioning servant is more dangerous than an ignorant enemy.


----------



## xtreme

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> (FTFY)
> 
> Why?  They do an IQ test for military entry?



(FTFY)  

Well for starters, they have nukes.

I did not get a positive impression I expected from valiant 'representatives' of our Armed Services on this forum.

I've prepared to sign my life so I can do my part to protect what I consider home by going Reg Force.

I have real world -military- and engineering accomplishments & experience.  I am prepared to show you proof - if you want to get to know me.

I did not come here to 'troll' but came here to state what I believe is a valid problem in recruiting, also acknowledged by Cranton (i.e. why turn away experienced Doctors etc.)  

I offered a round or three of beers as a sincere friendly gesture (and the offer is still open).  Would a 'troll' do that?

I've been assured by friends already in the Reg Force, that some 'representatives' on this forum are just big-talkers.

Crantor,

You're correct, I am over-analyzing it.  Correlating the CFAT to an IQ psychometric is well beyond the scope of what is required for the average person to pass the CFAT.  No doubt.  I brought up this topic for the purpose of stimulating an interesting discussion, creating an academic exercise in how psychometric testing works, why/how it is used and because quite frankly - I was bored.  Some people may be generally curious and would be interested in knowing the nuts & bolts behind these types of tests.  Some of us can agree the CFAT is not rocket-science.

JM,

Calm down.  It was a subtle suggestion regarding the Chinese and their higher standards/values on meritocracy and 'smarts.'  I was born and raised in Canada.  Chill out.


----------



## Teager

Xtreme whats with the China thing? If you read the news you would be aware that Canada is actualy warming up to them and is the first western country to do so militarily.

I think the question has been asked multiple times are you in the CF or just write the CFAT for your own personal reasons? I'd love to hear about your real world military experience though so please share.


----------



## Remius

> Well for starters, they have nukes.



 I'm not sure where you are going with this now.



> I did not get a positive impression I expected from valiant 'representatives' of our Armed Services on this forum.



I'm not sure what to make of that comment.  What were you expecting?  And why the "representatives" in quotation?  Sarcasm? Insult?  Humour?  I can tell you what I think you mean but maybe internet speak is getting in the way.



> I've prepared to sign my life so I can do my part to protect what I consider home by going Reg Force.



Commendable. I didn't join to sign my life away though.  But motivations can vary.



> I have real world -military- and engineering accomplishments & experience.  I am prepared to show you proof - if you want to get to know me.



Providing some would go a long way to providing context and legitimacy to what you are saying on a forum where actions speak louder than words. (Friendly advice)



> I did not come here to 'troll' but came here to state what I believe is a valid problem in recruiting, also acknowledged by Cranton (i.e. why turn away experienced Doctors etc.)



I don't think you are trolling but you may be rubbing some people the wrong way



> I've been assured by friends already in the Reg Force, that some 'representatives' on this forum are just big-talkers.



Maybe.  I really hope you can back that up.  Some of these big talkers have been some big do-ers.  Comments like that are not going to get you far.




> Calm down.  It was a subtle suggestion regarding the Chinese and their higher standards/values on meritocracy and 'smarts.'  I was born and raised in Canada.  Chill out.



This should be interesting.  the Chinese also don't exactly place a higher value on the value of the individual soldier like we do either.  All that meritocracy and all those smarts are not going to count when your military doctrine is about overwhelming your enemy with numbers to absorb more damage than them and trying to drown your foe with your own blood by having your troops thrown into the meat grinder.  I exaggerate to make a point but I think you get that.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

xtreme said:
			
		

> (FTFY)
> 
> I did not get a positive impression I expected from valiant 'representatives' of our Armed Services on this forum.



Sorry I didn't meet your expectations, my patience for dealing with pompous jackanapes must have been lost somewhere in the Panjwai.



			
				xtreme said:
			
		

> I've prepared to sign my life so I can do my part to protect what I consider home by going Reg Force.



Thanks for coming out. Some of us signed that dotted line a long time ago, and actually put our money where our mouth is and went into danger.



			
				xtreme said:
			
		

> I have real world -military- and engineering accomplishments & experience.  I am prepared to show you proof - if you want to get to know me.



Trust me, you have a captive audience. Please enlighten us with your greatness.



			
				xtreme said:
			
		

> I've been assured by friends already in the Reg Force, that some 'representatives' on this forum are just big-talkers.



Like crantor said, big do-ers too.


----------



## SeR

xtreme said:
			
		

> I've prepared to sign my life so I can do my part to protect what I consider home by going Reg Force.



Being _prepared to_ and _actually doing so_ are two different things.

A lot of people are _prepared_ to work out and lose weight. Not so many people actually follow through with it.

Edited to through in the analogy - just because ;D


----------



## skyhigh10

:trainwreck:

Only emoticon that seems appropriate in this thread .


Xtreme,  just join, do awesome heroic things, write a book,  ....  etc etc.  No doubt you have done your research and want to serve. So now, walk the walk.


----------



## xtreme

You're comparing the CF to the Chinese Military.  A military with over thousand year history/experience, technological advancement (gunpowder) and an acknowledged super-power.  Come out of la la land.  This will enable you to gauge your potential enemies with realistic estimations.  This is a horrendous conclusion you derived with your (lack of) information/evidence.  I don't suggest either military is better, but it is wise to be  cautious when underestimating - anything - especially out of blind pride.

It is apparent that some members on this forum demonstrate an uncanny ability to underestimate people (& now countries & foreign military's) they do not know.  Oblivious to how this ignorance is dangerous to themselves.  It is this type of behaviour that unfortunately leads U.S. Soldiers to get shot at dinner by 'Afghan friends.'  

I've suggested a method in which you may learn more about me and my contributions.  Otherwise it would be hazardous to discuss particulars on a forum viewable by anybody.

Toward the Gap:

I support the effort, but is Afghanistan supposed to impress me?  70,000 troops w/allies versus decentralized fanatical backward tribal villagers called the Taliban.  10+ years really?


----------



## Remius

xtreme said:
			
		

> You're comparing the CF to the Chinese Military.  A military with over thousand year history/experience, technological advancement (gunpowder) and an acknowledged super-power.  Come out of la la land.  This will enable you to gauge your potential enemies with realistic estimations.  This is a horrendous conclusion you derived with your (lack of) information/evidence.  I don't suggest either military is better, but it is wise to be  cautious when underestimating - anything - especially out of blind pride.
> 
> It is apparent that some members on this forum demonstrate an uncanny ability to underestimate people (& now countries & foreign military's) they do not know.  Oblivious to how this ignorance is dangerous to themselves.  It is this type of behaviour that unfortunately leads U.S. Soldiers to get shot at dinner by 'Afghan friends.'
> 
> I've suggested a method in which you may learn more about me and my contributions.  Otherwise it would be hazardous to discuss particulars on a forum viewable by anybody.
> 
> Toward the Gap:
> 
> I support the effort, but is Afghanistan supposed to impress me?  70,000 troops w/allies versus decentralized fanatical backward tribal villagers called the Taliban.  10+ years really?



You know what xtreme.  I've been polite so far. I've actually tried to engage in this, whatever it is.  Now I'm going to likely get a warning for this but I'm now going to tell you to f**k off.  As far as I'm concerned your not welcome in this organisation with that kind of attitude.  Chances are even if your brain got you through the CFAT the second time round, your attitude isn't going to get your through three days at basic. I am now calling you troll and I am going to complain about your presence here which contributes nothing to what we represent.


----------



## SeR

xtreme said:
			
		

> I've suggested a method in which you may learn more about me and my contributions.



I think this site is more suitable to your "interests."

http://www.eharmony.ca/


Call me old fashioned, but the last person I would have "a round or three" with is some stranger I met on the internet who introduces himself with his "near ceiling IQ of 145."


----------



## Remius

SeR said:
			
		

> I think this site is more suitable to your "interests."
> 
> http://www.eharmony.ca/
> 
> 
> Call me old fashioned, but the last person I would have "a round or three" with is some stranger I met on the internet who introduces himself with his "near ceiling IQ of 145."



Or has the gall to make light of someone`s real wartime service let alone just about everyone that went there with his smart merit brain.


----------



## SeR

Crantor said:
			
		

> Or has the gall to make light of someone`s real wartime service let alone just about everyone that went there with his smart merit brain.



...and the list goes on...


----------



## xtreme

Crantor,

Uh, why are you upset?  

I think the problem here is, people are automatically reading everything I say right off the bat with hostility.  They don't stop to consider that I'm merely having a frank discussion.  I'm not arguing at all and I'm certainly not upset.  

Stop being so sensitive.  You're going to make a complaint against me because you can't ignore a thread that I initially started off with a good purpose, that became sidetracked by constant berating?  

I don't imply any offense whatsoever.  I mean fine, forget the Chinese military, it sucks!  I just found the gross underestimation intriguing.

Perhaps, I'm controversial to you right now and perhaps my "attitude" will eventually adapt to what you deem as acceptable over time.  Just give me a chance buddy.

The Officer Panel really did like me.  Perhaps, I'm more pleasant in person?

I apologize for my keen curiosity, which is fundamentally the fuel behind all my questions.

You and your 'buddies' could be more polite too.  Starting off with name-calling (Sheldon) wasn't the nicest welcome, regardless of my first post, that I will acknowledge in hindsight was bad-taste.  Yes, mentioning IQ was awkward but I only did so to demonstrate how ceilings worked.  Maybe, I should have used the word 'hypothetical' or something to that effect, so it didn't look like I was talking about myself.

I'm not well-versed in forum/internet etiquette, as you can tell my forum experience is limited by my post count.  I am most certainly more pleasant with the addition of non-verbal communication.

But stop getting so aggressive man!!  I actually believe we could end up being good friends, if you give me a chance.

Sorry - friend.

I did say I supported the effort.  I'm sure we both can agree that the Taliban are a bunch of backward fanatics?  I think it is very noble and brave for somebody to enter such an environment.  Just curious what the hold up is?  I mean doesn't 10 years seem long to you?  I know of CF Soldiers that would agree too!  But when it comes from me - lynch him!!


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Locked..............and don't ask.
Bruce


----------



## justin9

Hi I was doing the CFAT practice test and had trouble with the last question "How many soldiers are there in a group of 27 sailors and soldiers if there 
 are four fifths as many sailors as soldiers?" I'm having troubles trying to figure the last part. I found out how to solve for the answer in algebra way solving for x and y, but I'm trying to figure it out in my head. I can't understand the part "if there are four fifths as many sailors as soldiers?" can someone reword this for me please? I get lost at 4/5 of soldiers or sailors in the 27??


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Wouldn't that mean that 80% of them are sailors while 20% are soldiers....


----------



## Stiman

4 fifths would be 4 sailors for every 5 soldiers. So 9 people altogether. Since 27/9 is 3, then there are 3x5=15 soldiers.


----------



## justin9

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Wouldn't that mean that 80% of them are sailors while 20% are soldiers....



So would this be wrong? I understand how to do the math but English is not my main language, am I explaining this correctly? "4 sailors for every 5 soldiers"? What is another way to explain it?


----------



## Towards_the_gap

If _xtreme_ sees this thread we are in for a long night...


----------



## Tralax

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> If _xtreme_ sees this thread we are in for a long night...



 :rofl:

good one


----------



## BYFROMSCHOOL

Ygolohcysp said:
			
		

> I was doing the practice test and I came by a question which required you to 1105/16. Do I have to be able to do this in my head, or can I at least use pen and paper to do long division? I know I can use a calculator on the practice test, but thats not really practicing haha.



On that question I believe it's one officer to 16 soldiers so you would divide 1105/17. Unfortunately wording comes into play in problem solving a lot. Take your time on the CFAT. Anyone know if you can ask for clarification during the test?


----------



## George Wallace

WOW!



So many wrong answers.


Amazing.


----------



## Cbbmtt

I did process of elimination 50/50 would be 13.5 sailors and soldiers and we can't have half a soldier. To have four fifths I figured you would need to have a number divisible by 5, but the total numbers when added together needs to be 27.

I didn't know the math equation to get this answer and I still don't.

12 sailors and 15 soldiers.

4/5's of 15 is 12, 12 plus 15 = 27


----------



## hambley92

The question has already been answered, but here is some math:

Let soldiers be represented by X.
Let sailors be represented by Y.

Since we have 4/5's as many sailors as soldiers, Y = 4/5X or 0.8X.

27 = X + Y
27 = X + 0.8X
27 = 1.8X
27/1.8 = X
X = 15
Y = 0.8X = 12

You have 15 soldiers and 12 sailors.

Hope that helps. Cheers.


----------



## kevincanada

I solved it a little bit differently, sometimes you can break it down and make it very very simple.  In this case just add them until you hit 27.

"How many soldiers are there in a group of 27 sailors and soldiers if there
 are four fifths as many sailors as soldiers?"

4 sailors + 5 soldiers = 9
4 sailors + 5 soldiers = 9
4 sailors + 5 soldiers = 9
--------------------------------
12 sailors + 15 soldiers = 27

It pays to simplify the strangely worded mathematical questions if you can.


----------



## Cbbmtt

WOW!!! I'm seriously kicking myself in the butt, that is way easier then my method!! Awesome, seriously awesome.



			
				kevincanada said:
			
		

> I solved it a little bit differently, sometimes you can break it down and make it very very simple.  In this case just add them until you hit 27.
> 
> "How many soldiers are there in a group of 27 sailors and soldiers if there
> are four fifths as many sailors as soldiers?"
> 
> 4 sailors + 5 soldiers = 9
> 4 sailors + 5 soldiers = 9
> 4 sailors + 5 soldiers = 9
> --------------------------------
> 12 sailors + 15 soldiers = 27
> 
> It pays to simplify the strangely worded mathematical questions if you can.


----------



## kevincanada

Another way to look at it

"How many soldiers are there in a group of *27* sailors and soldiers if there
 are *four(4) fifths(5)* as many *sailors(4)* as *soldiers(5)*?"

hope it helps


----------



## kevincanada

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> WOW!!! I'm seriously kicking myself in the butt, that is way easier then my method!! Awesome, seriously awesome.



 ;D


----------



## utopia

Hello fellow members, 
                                 It might seem like this question has been answered a numerous times... But it hasn't been. I looked up thoroughly for 1 full week. 
As of latest information: 
Question: How many parts are there to CFAT (canadian forces aptitude test)? 
Question 2: How long is each part of the test? 
Question 3: How many questions are in each part and whats the total time allotted for each such categories? 

To summarize, so far the information I have is that its split into 3 categories: Verbal (5 mins total time), Spatial (10 mins total time) and problem solving (30 mins total time). 
If so, then why did the recruitment centre email me notifying that the test appointment lasts from 8: 30 am to 12 pm (thats 3.5 hours). 

There's gotta be something new going on. As judging a persons aptitute in a short 45 mins test is not accurate. Given RCMP and other tests last for upto 4 hours.


----------



## nn1988

utopia said:
			
		

> Hello fellow members,
> 
> Question: How many parts are there to CFAT (canadian forces aptitude test)?
> Question 2: How long is each part of the test?
> Question 3: How many questions are in each part and whats the total time allotted for each such categories?
> 
> To summarize, so far the information I have is that its split into 3 categories: Verbal (5 mins total time), Spatial (10 mins total time) and problem solving (30 mins total time).
> If so, then why did the recruitment centre email me notifying that the test appointment lasts from 8: 30 am to 12 pm (thats 3.5 hours).




From the CF site: "You will be invited to complete this multiple-choice test by hand or on a computer. You are given 45 minutes to answer all of the questions: you will be given 4 answers for each question, but only one is correct. The test has 60 questions, broken down into three parts:
Verbal skills (15 questions, 5 minute limit to finish)
Spatial ability (15 questions, 10 minute limit to finish)
Problem solving (30 questions, 30 minute limit to finish)''

There are 3 parts and your timings seem accurate. It can take up to 3 or so hours. They don't put you on the computers right away. Without availing too much and breaking the non-disclosure ethic, there are introductions, grading, forms to be filled out, transport reimbursements and arranging of future appointments for further processing that can take time as well once you've completed the aptitude test. Good luck!


----------



## utopia

Thanks for your reply nn1988. Kindly appreciated. 
I guess the knowledge I had about the test was from the CF website. 
Thanks for the overall input.


----------



## linda1968

Well, after months of studying for the Aptitude Test, two years of non stop exercises of hard core bench presses, cardio, etc, my son took the Aptitude Test and failed. He now has to wait another three months. After dropping him off at the Hamilton Office where the test took place, I drove around Hamilton for awhile and after two and a half hours of driving, I went back and waited in the lobby. When I arrived there, one by one, young adults ages 18 to 21 (my guess) came out of a room. My son was nervous and informed me that math was very complicated (I hired a math tutor for him to freshen up). Other young adults were told to sit and watch a movie based about life in the Armed Forces across from me. Two Officer's would call two people at a time, they came out looking very happy and relieved. I thought 'good for them'. Than the one Officer called five of the recruitors and left my son alone for 10 minutes. I knew right there and than he failed. The look on his face was total defeat. The five recruitors came out happy, left and than my son was called. A little later he came out and wanted to get away from there asap. He told me that the math was HUGELY difficult, the verbal and spartial was easy! He was told that he had to wait another 3 months before he could reapply and retake the test. He is going back to school to take up grade 10 math and go again in November. As a mother, I was crushed and hurting. To get rid of his disappointment and pain he is now going more and more to the Y. I got some math books from the library for him to study before I hire another tutor.
I totally understand that the RAF doesn't just take anybody! But geez, do they NOT want new recruits? Make the math part alittle more easier, perhaps! Another young man who looked to be 18 also failed and he left with his head down. My son wants to be in the infantry and understands that math has to be used. I am so nervous of him going back in November and maybe failing the math again, even though he is going back to school for his math. He told me that its three strikes and your out!
Has anyone else on this website failed? and went back? I would love to hear your story! Thanks.


----------



## dangerboy

linda1968 said:
			
		

> I totally understand that the RAF doesn't just take anybody! But geez, do they NOT want new recruits? Make the math part alittle more easier, perhaps!



Not to be rude but while the Canadian Forces may want recruits they want troops that meet the standard.  Lowering the standard does not do anybody any good.  If you lower the standard and take people that don't know math, when are they going to learn it, on basic training? On their trade training? Basic math is just one of the skills the CF expects you to have.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

I understand your thoughts/feelings about witnessing a child's failure. However, I find it out-of-taste to suggest that a specific portion of the test be reformatted because a small percentage of people aren't able to pass. Do you think that is an appropriate suggestion for Police Service testing, Firefighters, etc.? (It is also my opinion that people need to experience failure in all aspects of life. This is not the end of the world. It's another chance for him to better himself in a certain area.) 

I am extremely weak in math. I was quite concerned with how I would perform. I found it difficult, but passed--thankfully. Although _I_ found it difficult, there are many who didn't/don't and I don't think there is anything about the skill level that needs to be adjusted. Frankly, it's up to potential recruits to match the level of what the CF wants, not the other way around. Now that your son has a first-hand account of what he needs to work on, he can prep accordingly. 

There is nothing shameful about failure. It helps us grow, helps us learn, and better prepares us for various struggles in life.


----------



## Bassil_Inf

Well with my experience the math part was actually very easy. The two dominant things you need to know is to understand the problem and solve. I'd suggest reviewing how to multiply and divide. Your son should also time each question, and if there is a question he's stuck on, then skip it and move on to the next one, and come back to the original question later. The math is based on grade 10 math. Good luck.


----------



## MikeL

linda1968 said:
			
		

> I totally understand that the RAF doesn't just take anybody!


FYI, the RAF is the British Air Force.



			
				linda1968 said:
			
		

> But geez, do they NOT want new recruits? Make the math part alittle more easier, perhaps!



Plenty of people pass the math portion; so why should the test be made easier because a portion of people that take the test fail? I'm sure this is disappointing/frustrating for you and your son, but things shouldn't be made easier just to accommodate him and others. Asking for potential recruits to have a minimum of grade 10 math skills isn't asking for much IMO.  There is a standard, and potential recruits must meet it. 

He failed a portion of the test, it happens.  Now he has to learn from this; I'm sure he has an idea of what he had difficulty with, so he can brush on up on that so he is better prepared for his second attempt. 



			
				linda1968 said:
			
		

> He is going back to school to take up grade 10 math


Does he not already have grade 10 math?


----------



## mariomike

linda1968 said:
			
		

> Has anyone else on this website failed? and went back? I would love to hear your story! Thanks.



Lots here.

"Well I feel like a right moron right now. I just failed my CFAT."
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0


----------



## JM2345

Looking at your username and your story, I assume your son is still very young and certainly shouldn't need to pick his career immediately. If he fails the CFAT again, encourage him to get some more experience in other professions before he worries about his third try (which he will likely have to wait a while for even if he is taking Math courses). While serving in the Canadian Forces is a dream and would be an honor for many, it is only the reality for a relatively few people.

If he gives it his best effort, and still doesn't make it in, he has to hold his head high and be proud that he tried, and choose another path in life that can contribute to making Canada a great place to live. 

When I did my CFAT, 2 people failed, but it is impossible for me to speculate which sections they did bad on. I found the test very difficult, but I think on the second try he will find it easier since he now knows how hard it is and what kinds of math to study on.


----------



## PMedMoe

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> FYI, the RAF is the British Air Force.



 :ditto:

I failed Grade 10 math and still did well on the CFAT.  It's more about problem solving than about math.   :dunno:


----------



## The_Falcon

Many people pass the CFAT, and many people fail 1 or more portions of it.  That's life and reality, not everyone can join/is suitable for the CAF.  Eventually your son needs to learn and accept failure, and you as his mother need to learn to cut the cord, and let him fail.


----------



## UnwiseCritic

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Many people pass the CFAT, and many people fail 1 or more portions of it.  That's life and reality, not everyone can join/is suitable for the CAF.  Eventually your son needs to learn and accept failure, and you as his mother need to learn to cut the cord, and let him fail.



Well I think you should teach that failures will happen and it's a part of life. I wouldn't recommend teaching people to accept failure...


----------



## The_Falcon

UnwiseCritic said:
			
		

> Well I think you should teach that failures will happen and it's a part of life. I wouldn't recommend teaching people to accept failure...



Semantics.


----------



## Occam

For the OP:  Again, not to sound harsh, but it's important to remember exactly what the CFAT is testing:

Definition of APTITUDE

1
a : inclination, tendency <an aptitude for hard work>
b : a natural ability : talent
2
: capacity for learning <an aptitude for languages>
3
: general suitability : aptness

It may well be that he just isn't suited for the CF, and no amount of studying or tutoring will change that.


----------



## STJ_Kierstead

^harsh.

I was never good with math, but with age I have come to really enjoy problem solving. My last job in Alberta was well testing, and tho the math was basic I learned to enjoy it.  Figuring out the hourly gains of water/oil being pumped from the well, reporting to my boss and having him look over my work approving that i had been doing it rite it became easier and easier. Doing things rite is rewarding.  Failing is never easy, knowing other people did the same test and passed makes one feel miserable. I know the feeling and I am sorry he is going through that.  I knew i needed to study before my CFAT, so i did. I asked friends, family and even my girlfriends son to help me with the areas i needed to brush up on.  That said, I still had difficulty with the math part of test but did worst on the language aspect.  Don't let him stay to beat up over this, keep him motivated to do his best and remember that as going in with a good attitude is half the battle!

I do hope he does the test again and I hope he can nail it!  Goodluck to him and his future, I look forward to seeing your post of "HE DID IT!!"

- Kierstead


----------



## Anakha

STJ_Kierstead said:
			
		

> ^harsh.
> 
> I was never good with math, but with age I have come to really enjoy problem solving. My last job in Alberta was well testing, and tho the math was basic I learned to enjoy it.  Figuring out the hourly gains of water/oil being pumped from the well, reporting to my boss and having him look over my work approving that i had been doing it rite it became easier and easier. Doing things rite is rewarding.  Failing is never easy, knowing other people did the same test and passed makes one feel miserable. I know the feeling and I am sorry he is going through that.  I knew i needed to study before my CFAT, so i did. I asked friends, family and even my girlfriends son to help me with the areas i needed to brush up on.  That said, I still had difficulty with the math part of test but did worst on the language aspect.  Don't let him stay to beat up over this, keep him motivated to do his best and remember that as going in with a good attitude is half the battle!
> 
> I do hope he does the test again and I hope he can nail it!  Goodluck to him and his future, I look forward to seeing your post of "HE DID IT!!"
> 
> - Kierstead




As for the OP's original statement about whether the recruitors want people to get in or not based on the difficulty and that they should make the math portion easier, it's a bit silly. To lower the standard to avoid any failures negates the purpose of having a standard at all. Especially considering by her own admission the majority of the applicants passed the aptitude test. By that token, Occam's statement was harsh but relevant. The applicant may simply not meet the standard. Clearly at this time he did not.

That being said, as you said everyone has their own challenges and I firmly believe in the value of someone who can take his licks and resaddle, latent talent or not. If he treats a defeat as final, well then the CAF is probably not the place for him. If it remotivates him to try all that much harder then that's the kind of attitude that goes far.


----------



## Jarnhamar

It's nice to see parents giving a shit about their kids even if they're defensive about it.  

I remember calling parents in order to try and get their sons and daughters to release from the military the proper way instead of being 5F and of them couldn't care less.


I've noticed here and there posters commenting about how easy the aptitude test is (ie how smart they are). That can do a disservice to new applicants reading the forums seeing comments about how "easy it is" and perhaps not studying as much as they should.


----------



## McG

STJ_Kierstead said:
			
		

> Doing things rite is rewarding.


To help you in that, I will point out that "rite" is not used right in your sentance.


----------



## django

This is not a how to do an aptitude test, I know how to do an aptitude test. this Is a board regarding the foresight that some one may be able to shed some light on. 

I passed my aptitude test 2 week ago, and just completed my interview today which i did splendid on, everything was going smoothly until I was notified I didn't do well on my aptitude test but still passed.  :rage: now my question is can I still get hired if I do we'll on my physical and medical as I'm great at physical and hard demanding work but I'm not the smartest cookie in the tray. 

I'm applying for infantry 


Any and all responses are welcome and I genuinely appreciate all advice or possible stories that someone could inform me off, Merci.


----------



## Cbbmtt

Your application wouldn't still be processing if you didn't qualify for the trades you have selected.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

You still have a possibility of getting hired for your trade(s), provided you did well enough on your aptitude to qualify you for that particular trade. 

That being said, it ultimately comes down to how you stack up against your competition. All components combined will give you your individual 'applicant score.' If other applicants in the running for the same position have higher applicant scores than you, then they will have a better shot at job openings due to their higher placement on the merit list.


----------



## DAA

Like cbbmtt said, the CFAT (aptitude test) is merely a "determining" factor with respect to which trades you qualify for.  So as long as you have "met" any CFAT thresholds with regards to your occupation choices, you are okay.  If you didn't meet the requirements, you would have already been told!


----------



## mariomike

django said:
			
		

> I'm applying for infantry



Some discussions here you may find helpful.

CFAT infantry score  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/110464/post-1227847.html#msg1227847


----------



## django

thank you for all your replies, I was stressing just massively over this situation tell I read the comments and decided I can get into the infantry as long as I excel on my other tests and probably have nothing to worry aboot,  I also found good help in that link to alternative information regarding similar topics, and saw " it's basically impossible to mess up getting into the infantry"  :facepalm:

this site is great.


----------



## ModlrMike

django said:
			
		

> thank you for all your replies, I was stressing just massively over this situation tell I read the comments and decided I can get into the infantry as long as I excel on my other tests and probably have nothing to worry aboot,  I also found good help in that link to alternative information regarding similar topics, and saw " it's basically impossible to mess up getting into the infantry"  :facepalm:
> 
> this site is great.



Don't sell the infantry short. It's much more than marching and digging holes.


----------



## DAA

django said:
			
		

> and saw " it's basically impossible to mess up getting into the infantry"  :facepalm:



I wouldn't jump to conclusions so fast..........You didn't say if your applying for "Regular Force" or "Reserve Force".

Nevertheless, CFAT scores are only one of MANY parts to the equation.


----------



## django

I would never sell infantry short, it's the hardest job to do I think personally which is why I chose it, it's going to make me the best I will ever become. I just thought I shouldn't stress it so much, I have a good educational background above high school, and a good background in martial arts. I'm sure I should have no problem.  I'm going regular force, and don't plan on leaving.


----------



## Patriote

Well, suffice to say, my Aptitude Test is tomorrow (really excited and nervous), but I have a question. Say for example you apply for three trades (in my case: marine engineer, boatswain, and electrical technician), but you don't get high enough on your aptitude test. Will you be given three new trades that are closer to your results? Or do they just say sorry you didn't qualify? My step sister applied for three trades, never got them, but was offered another bunch. I'm not sure if she was a unique or it's normal.


----------



## nn1988

From the FORCES.CA site:




> CF APTITUDE TEST (CFAT)
> 
> The CFAT is used to select applicants for employment in the CF and to help determine specific military occupations for which you are best suited. In this regard the CFAT is an important component of the CF selection system.
> 
> At the organizational level, it is necessary to ensure that selection decisions are fair and equitable. Thus, _testing is one of the few resources we have to compare candidates objectively and fairly using a single criterion._ Fairness in this case is inherent in the fact that procedures have been standardized and that everyone is subject to the same challenge as all the other candidates, that is, to demonstrate his/her performance against a valid and/or pertinent selection standard. Consequently,_ the results obtained on the CFAT must be taken seriously and it must be considered an accurate and fair measurement of an individual’s cognitive skills performance_.
> 
> 
> FAILURE TO MEET THE CANADIAN FORCES APTITUDE TEST (CFAT) REQUIREMENTS
> 
> _The aptitude test is one of many steps required to join the CF. If you are not successful in meeting the requirements the first time there is a re-test policy that may allow subsequent attempts, although a re-test is not automatically granted. The decision to authorize a re-test is based on evidence that the applicant has prepared to retake the test and on the probability that performance will improve. Applicant must successfully meet the CFAT requirements in order to be eligible for enrolment in the CF_.
> 
> 
> RE-WRITING THE CFAT
> 
> *In order to be eligible to write the aptitude test a second time you must wait a minimum of three (3) months and then discuss with a Military Career Counsellor about your application and the steps you have taken to prepare for a re-test.*
> 
> In order to be eligible to write the aptitude test a third time you will have to have successfully completed, since the last time you wrote the test, a substantial academic course related to the CFAT. You will be required to provide proof that you achieved a 69% average or better in Grade 10 level Math or English, depending on if areas to improve were the CFAT problem solving or verbal skills questions.   Once you can provide this documentation, you will meet with a Military Career Counsellor to discuss your application and the re-test policy.
> 
> 
> TESTING ACCOMMODATIONS
> 
> The Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) is designed as a test of General Learning and Cognitive Ability. The three subtests reflect the most commonly-accepted components of the construct of Ability (Verbal, Spatial and Quantitative skills) as supported by theory and research on cognitive abilities and their relationship to work performance. The test was developed through a detailed and scientifically-rigorous process involving analysis of thousands of applicant responses on a large bank of similar test items taken from previous CF cognitive tests.
> 
> In measuring Cognitive Abilities, most tests use either "speed" or "power" approaches or a combination of both. A "speed" test uses very easy items that almost any adult could answer correctly with sufficient time; individual scores are based on speed of completion or number of items answered in a very short time limit. A pure "power" test involves difficult items that need either advanced knowledge or ability to answer; there is usually no time limit and individual ability scores are determined purely by number correct. The CFAT is the most common type of standardized cognitive/quantitative test; a combination of both speed and power.
> 
> During the CFAT, there is a time limit that forces respondents to work fast but makes it possible for most respondents in the target group to attempt 80% or more of the questions, with 30-80% of the target respondents answering each item correctly. Items for the test were selected on the basis of these sorts of statistics with previous CF applicant responses to the items on old tests. The appropriateness of each item (in terms of difficulty, applicant acceptability, fairness, and consistency of scoring amongst a variety of demographic groups) as well as the accuracy of the final overall test in selecting suitable applicants was then confirmed using new applicants. All research was done using test/item completion without any mechanical assistance, so the test time limit, Officer and NCM percentile scores, and all CF and occupation cut-off scores are based on test completion without a calculator.
> 
> Occasionally, CF Recruiting staffs receive requests from applicants for testing accommodations outside of normal testing procedures. Examples of such requests might include the use of a calculator, to have additional time, to have the questions read to them aloud, or to have a learning assistant present to assist them. Unfortunately, such requests are not possible for two reasons:
> Altering the test administration for a specific candidate would make their percentile and the established cut-off scores (and comparisons with other applicants) invalid; and
> Altering the test administration for all respondents would substantially change what is measured by the test and require complete revision of the test items, percentiles and time limits.



You will be respectively given a list of trades that you can chose from if you fail to achieve the cut-off/threshold for your chosen of trade.
I am not too sure about the re-test though;_ not sure_ if the recruiter or counsellor can veto your decision to retake it in 3 months.


----------



## Patriote

nn1988 said:
			
		

> From the FORCES.CA site:
> 
> 
> You will be respectively given a list of trades that you can chose from if you fail to achieve the cut-off/threshold for your chosen of trade.
> I am not too sure about the re-test though;_ not sure_ if the recruiter or counsellor can veto your decision to retake it in 3 months.



Thank you. At least I know I have a chance of join the Canadian Forces. Though, I am pretty confident in qualifying for those trades.

I'll let you guys know what I got offered after tomorrow.


----------



## Patriote

Went to Peterborough today for my Aptitude test, and passed. However, I was one point off for two of the three trades I wanted. I didn't qualify for electrical technician and marine engineer, which sucks. But I did qualify for boatswain. I qualified for infantry and combat engineer (along with another dozen trades).

I'm extremely happy. 

I wish everyone else who's in the application process good luck.


----------



## Brandonfw

Congrats Patriote!


----------



## uzi

I don't think it's a problem. I have seen person who failed the test joined as infantry.


----------



## Emilio

uzi said:
			
		

> I don't think it's a problem. I have seen person who failed the test joined as infantry.



That makes no sense.


----------



## PMedMoe

I could be wrong but I don't think you can "fail" the CFAT.  That being said, if your score very low, the trades available to you are extremely limited.


----------



## krimynal

Infantry is one of the hardest trade to get into , trust me , REALLY BRILLIANT people join the infantry.  I wouldn't do it , honestly I have the up most respect to everyone who does that , I couldn't do it , I'm still joining the combat arms , not as an infantry.  These guy have some of the hardest physical jobs I've seen , they need to be very intelligent , fighting on a battle field is nothing but easy.  



Like most of the other guys said , If you did below average , but that pretty much everyone also did , well you shouldn't worry at all.  If you weren't qualified or fit for the trade , they would have already let you know.


----------



## AnoukWolfie29

Hi, so i got my date to go pass my TAFC and i only have 1 week to get ready ! i was reading about people having 2-3 months ! i'm afraid i'm not going to be fully prepared for the test and i might not get a god grade (or even fail) i did the "practice" test on the main website of the canadian forces but i feel like it's not going to be so easy ! i've been reading here that there are some math questions that look pretty damn hard to some people. i've always been ok in math but nothing special and we were always aloud a calculator and now on this test i will not. anyone know tips or websites that are good where  i can practice fast ! thanks ! (2 days before test and in desperate need of a little hand here)


----------



## Tape

Try taking a look at this link (assuming that you're referring to CFAT) 

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

My tip: 

Get a good night sleep and try not to stress out too much. Also, if you're stuck on a question, move on and check on it later, time is of the essence.


----------



## mariomike

AnoukWolfie29 said:
			
		

> i've been reading here that there are some math questions that look pretty damn hard to some people. i've always been ok in math but nothing special and we were always aloud a calculator and now on this test i will not. anyone know tips or websites that are good where  i can practice fast !



In addition to the CFAT - FAQ posted above, these discussions are CFAT - Math specific.

?MATH? 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/109763/post-1214925.html#msg1214925
"...what type of math you all recomend I refresh my head with so that the cfat doesnt kick my butt."


----------



## Hattie56

AnoukWolfie29 said:
			
		

> Hi, so i got my date to go pass my TAFC and i only have 1 week to get ready ! i was reading about people having 2-3 months ! i'm afraid i'm not going to be fully prepared for the test and i might not get a god grade (or even fail) i did the "practice" test on the main website of the canadian forces but i feel like it's not going to be so easy ! i've been reading here that there are some math questions that look pretty damn hard to some people. i've always been ok in math but nothing special and we were always aloud a calculator and now on this test i will not. anyone know tips or websites that are good where  i can practice fast ! thanks ! (2 days before test and in desperate need of a little hand here)



Khanacademy, great site to brush up on math. Decimals, Fractions, multiplication, addition, subtraction. For the other two parts just focus and think logically. I was very stressed about the test but so is everyone who is in the room. The woman whose voice is in the video is really soothing and kept me calm. For spatial awareness you have to just concentrate and just think. I did mine about two weeks ago, and I was told I did very well. Its not as hard as people make it out to be, but its not as easy either. Sorry for jumping all over the place here lol. Hope you do great!


----------



## AnoukWolfie29

Thanks for the help - i'm still very stressed as of now :S i'll try my best and i hope to get a passing grade ! i'll update when i get a response to my exam score.   hopefully with good news


----------



## Mab163

Hi everyone,

Small question for you, I looked everywhere without finding an answer... Let me know your thought.

I passed the CFAT back in 2006. Last year, my application was re-opened and they said to me that my CFAT results were still valid. However, due to medical issue, my application was closed. I applied once again this year and now, they are waiting for a CFAT conversion. What is it? How long does it take to receive the results?

Thank you,


----------



## DAA

Mab163 said:
			
		

> Hi everyone,
> Small question for you, I looked everywhere without finding an answer... Let me know your thought.
> I passed the CFAT back in 2006. Last year, my application was re-opened and they said to me that my CFAT results were still valid. However, due to medical issue, my application was closed. I applied once again this year and now, they are waiting for a CFAT conversion. What is it? How long does it take to receive the results?
> Thank you,



Never heard of such a thing.  There are a limited number of people at CFRC's who have access to the CFAT/Testing database and they can pull your prior test results immediately, not to mention, said results will still be available in your electronic file but they are not official until verified.

Never heard of the term "CFAT conversion"...


----------



## kratz

During the timeframe the OP mentions, I am aware of one MOC who's recruiting standards was revised (read increased).

I am not a SME on this, but if the OP was applying to such a trade, this may explain why a conversion of his score would be required.


----------



## DAA

Santa's Coattails said:
			
		

> During the timeframe the OP mentions, I am aware of one MOC who's recruiting standards was revised (read increased).
> 
> I am not a SME on this, but if the OP was applying to such a trade, this may explain why a conversion of his score would be required.



If that was the case, he would be told the current scores didn't meet the minimum "cut-off" requirements and invited to rewrite the CFAT given the time lapse since he initially took the test.  It's not uncommon for this to happen and can be approved at local level.


----------



## Mab163

Thank you for your answers.

At my last interview, I was told that my scores met the requirements. They were not excellent but good enough for the pilot trade.

Maybe I misunderstood what the Caporal said to me and she's only waiting to verify the results... However, 3 weeks later, still no news  :-[


----------



## shadesofgreen

This might sound very dumb, I'm sorry, I'm just unsure about this.
I did my CFAT on december 11th on the computers and I don't know if I passed for sure or if they just haven't told me yet. I know that they had told one of the guys there to grab all this stuff and go with them (it could have been cause there was some other kind of issue, I'm not sure) and the rest of us went downstairs to wait to meet with one of the recruiters to check all our paperwork to make sure everything was all good. When it was my turn to go see one of the recruiters, he told be that I needed to change 2 of my references and e-mail him the new one later that day. Then he told me that the jobs I had put on my application where not in high demand at the moment and that I should call in 2 months if they have not already called me to see where my application is at and stuff. He didn't talk about the CFAT at all and obviously I should of asked him about it and all but I was a little nervous and shy and trying to make sure I remembered all the informtion he was telling me that I stupidly forgot to mention it and only thought about it after I left. I then e-mailed the recruiter my new references and the question but he never repplied, I got busy with finals at school and now it's the holidays, this is why I'm asking here for now,

Does this mean I passed, since they didn't tell me to grab my stuff and leave too? 
Am I supposed to know if I qualified (scored high enough) for all the jobs I put on my application or do they only tell you that later?

Thanks!


----------



## ComDvr13

Yeah you would have been told, by what you said it seems like you passed but your trades aren't in demand plus it's holiday shut down so you're not high priority. Hard to say really but mine was the same, no info really given, they're probably tired of saying same thing all the time so unless you ask they don't tell. When I called the RC later on the nice lady said I qualified for almost every trade based on CFAT and I thought I did less than good so you'll find out if you ask in the new year. They would have told you, okay here's what you qualify for do you want to pick a new trade cause you aren't eligible for choices 1 & 3 or w/e.

Congrats and good luck

Edit: grammar and some stuffs


----------



## shadesofgreen

Thanks! I will definitely try to call the recruiting center after the holidays to ask about it.


----------



## Milhouse

Ya you're probably good to go same thing happened with me, didn't say much, just processed my paperwork. Afterwards a bunch of us were sitting out in the lobby and I was still wondering, so I asked one of the recruiting staff if anyone failed. They just told me I was alright, that was enough for me.  I guess you do kinda wonder if you're the group that passed, or the one that failed. lol


----------



## JoeDos

Well right now I am trying to do as much as I can possibly do to keep refreshing my mind for when I do go for the CFAT, which may be months because apparently they have a new policy in place where Aboriginals and ROTP take priority over everyone's application. Anyways I am not the strongest person when it comes to math, I completed my Gr12 with a B in math but never have been great with it, so I was wondering for the CFAT am I allowed to bring a pen and paper when it comes to the math questions?


----------



## DannyD

When I did my CFAT back in 2008, you were given pen and paper, just no calculator.


----------



## Brandonfw

I did my CFAT back in October 2013, they will supply you with paper and pencils. Although the papers has to stay in the room after you are done and cannot be taken with you, as they will explain that before you start and when you finish.

Best of luck!


----------



## JoeDos

Any tips would be grateful, I know I wont have a problem with spatial and verbal section of the CFAT but some of the problem solving I do have a feeling I will have an issue with.


----------



## DAA

JoeDos said:
			
		

> Any tips would be grateful, I know I wont have a problem with spatial and verbal section of the CFAT but some of the problem solving I do have a feeling I will have an issue with.



Grade 10 Math, algebra, fractions, etc......

You know, where they ask you if "2x +3Y = 8z what is the value of x?" kind of stuff......


----------



## RSipkes

I signed up for and am using the website KHAN ACADEMY (.org) to help me study for the CFAT. Is this a recommended way to study? Please let me know! My CFAT is in a few weeks.


----------



## runormal

I've used khan academy for university it was pretty helpful. 

As for the cfat it is all based on a grade 10 level, so if you are reviewing his grade 10 material it should help. Is it the best way? I don't know as I've never used it for the cfat, but like I said it has been highly successful for university. 

My friend bought a cfat prep book from chapters. I skimmed through it and seemed pretty good, but I've never used it myself. 

Math was always fairly easy for me, so I just reviewed basic math as the recruiter told me that knowing calculus would confuse me.

Good luck.


----------



## Hattie56

Sipkes said:
			
		

> I signed up for and am using the website KHAN ACADEMY (.org) to help me study for the CFAT. Is this a recommended way to study? Please let me know! My CFAT is in a few weeks.



Plain and simple answer; Yes. That's what I used to brush up and was told I did exceptionally well.


----------



## JoeDos

Yes, I have been using that site along side a GED Prep book, and a Math 12 book.


----------



## BorisK

For me personally : A GED prep book, Khan Academy, other YouTube videos that covered the basics of algebra and grade 10-12 material, and working under a time limit all helped me. 

I really liked the ASVAB iPhone app by McGraw Hill, which I had to 'buy' questions for @ $10 but it was nice to use on the subway on the way to work or whenever I needed a quick mental workout.  The app has a timer and I suggest turning it on to really get your brain engaged.  

Also, not one of the most useful, but definitely nice content that I really was glad I found was a YouTube account called 'new planet school'.  While they had not necessarily the most related material, they covered some key advanced mathematics principles in ways that were refreshing to hear, relevant to the test or not.   Very well done videos that are worth watching to help you wrap your head around some things, though by no means a key study material for the test.  

Get out a piece of paper and pen and smash through some grade 10-12 course material and work as quickly as possible.  

My top advice really : study like you actually care about learning the stuff, not just need to fake it to pass the test. And lastly, don't be overly cocky but do indeed attack the test just like it is any other physical obstacle like say the 6' wall at the BMQ obstacle course. 

Best of luck to you.  For what it's worth I suck at math and managed to do alright.  I would have failed  miserably if I didn't study though.  Speed with the basics is essential but no matter what just do your best and be happy no matter the result.   Honestly so what if you have to do a rewrite, it sucks but if you really want this it's just another obstacle that you know you can take on if you put your mind to it.  

Cheers.


----------



## Journeyman

BorisK said:
			
		

> My top advice really : study like you actually care about learning the stuff, not just need to fake it to pass the test.


  rly:   Who are you and what are you doing here?

Very good advice.  MilPoints inbound.


I now return to ignoring the Recruiting threads.


----------



## brihard




----------



## Journeyman

:rofl:
Wow.  I tend to avoid the Recruiting topics, yet here I am giving MilPoints for two in the same thread.    :stars:



I can never remember what comes after plagues of locusts, but this is surely biblical.......


----------



## brihard

Hah. I already blew through my quota of 'serious' for today, so when I saw something that said 'Khan', there was only one COA open to me.


----------



## BorisK

I'm not even sworn in, let alone cleared an interview or medical, but I do care very much about all our lives and I gotta say, thanks Journeyman, the Mil-points mean a lot on a personal level 

Unpolished salute from a civilian inbound.  

Study hard guys and girls. but don't sweat the CFAT like its a PhD thesis in advanced biology.  Just brush up on your 'so all the worlds calculators broke and I need to do some fundamentals' stuff, plus if I were you study for stuff related to your desired trade.  Personally I'm trying to now wrap my head around some electronics that are pretty challenging to me but I'm slowly learning and it feels good to be honest.  

Best of luck to all.


----------



## aquaholic75

I used math.com, google search for things like spatial acuity tests and verbal knowledge tests. All helped and were FREE! I also grew up in a time where we were not allowed to use calculators until grade 11 Math. So, long division was very much ingrained in me.  Just remember to not waste time on harder questions get through as many as possible of the "easier" questions and then go back and tackle the harder questions.


----------



## Hudyma

Hattie56 said:
			
		

> Plain and simple answer; Yes. That's what I used to brush up and was told I did exceptionally well.


As did I, and I was also told the same.
If you haven't found it already, https://www.khanacademy.org/math/arithmetic/multiplication-division/long_division/e/division_1.5, this the link to all of the long division related material.  I must have done dozens of the practice exercises.
Good luck!


----------



## JoeDos

So I have tried searching for this and I can't be %100 sure if I have gotten the correct answer. I have my CFAT in February I have been studying a lot for math because it is not my greatest subject, I am not really to worried but I do have one thought in my mind. If I do not do well on a certain area of the test, like problem solving for example and the trade requires it to have a great mark am I able to choose a different trade that I qualified for if I so happen didn't qualify for the ones I have chosen?


----------



## matthew1786

JosephD said:
			
		

> So I have tried searching for this and I can't be %100 sure if I have gotten the correct answer. I have my CFAT in February I have been studying a lot for math because it is not my greatest subject, I am not really to worried but I do have one thought in my mind. If I do not do well on a certain area of the test, like problem solving for example and the trade requires it to have a great mark am I able to choose a different trade that I qualified for if I so happen didn't qualify for the ones I have chosen?



Although I can not answer your question, it seems as though you are searching very far for answers to questions that should not be your focus. Focus on the test at hand and keep a positive mind set, dwelling on the what-ifs is distracting and will deter your confidence! Good luck!


----------



## DeadEye229

JosephD said:
			
		

> So I have tried searching for this and I can't be %100 sure if I have gotten the correct answer. I have my CFAT in February I have been studying a lot for math because it is not my greatest subject, I am not really to worried but I do have one thought in my mind. If I do not do well on a certain area of the test, like problem solving for example and the trade requires it to have a great mark am I able to choose a different trade that I qualified for if I so happen didn't qualify for the ones I have chosen?



If you pass the CFAT they give you a list of jobs you qualified for depending on your score. I do believe you can switch your choices if you dont meet the score requirements on the trade youre looking to get into. Study and do your best. 

goodluck.


----------



## Journeyman

matthew1786 said:
			
		

> Although I can not answer your question.....


Then why post?  Is it for the exalted glory of the extra Milpoints?  :not-again:
Tell you what, I've just given you 40 Milpoints; since each post gets you 10 Milpoints, next four times you want to post...take deep breaths instead.



			
				JosephD said:
			
		

> If I do not do well .....am I able to choose a different trade that I qualified for?


         *Yes *   

That's what matthew1786 _would_ have said if he actually knew what he was talking about. If there are vacancies in trades with a lower CFAT requirement, they can become your alternate plan.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

JosephD said:
			
		

> So I have tried searching for this and I can't be %100 sure if I have gotten the correct answer. I have my CFAT in February* I have been studying a lot for math because it is not my greatest subject*, I am not really to worried but I do have one thought in my mind. If I do not do well on a certain area of the test, like problem solving for example and the trade requires it to have a great mark am I able to choose a different trade that I qualified for if I so happen didn't qualify for the ones I have chosen?



Aside from basic math (2 + 2 = 5, etc) make sure you go do fractions.  No joke.


----------



## JoeDos

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Aside from basic math (2 + 2 = 5, etc) make sure you go do fractions.  No joke.



Well we have a family friend that teaches math at the prison and he gave me some material on how to do fractions, and algebra. I am just going to keep studying and we shall see what happens!


----------



## nickg94

Hi, I'm really new to this website and was wondering if I could get some answers. I applied for the infantry in 2012 for a co-op program when I was back in Highschool. I passed the CFAT, and passed the physical, but I quit the application process before the medical because I felt I wasn't ready to make the commitment just yet. I have recently applied again, and have been asked to come into the recruiting office with my transcript etc, I was just wondering if they would have my old application still on file and if I would have to retake the CFAT for this second application? It's not a big deal to me as I have been practicing my math lately but I was just wondering because If I don't have to take it again it would be awesome  ;D any help would be greatly appreciated please


----------



## DAA

nickg94 said:
			
		

> Hi, I'm really new to this website and was wondering if I could get some answers. I applied for the infantry in 2012 for a co-op program when I was back in Highschool. I passed the CFAT, and passed the physical, but I quit the application process before the medical because I felt I wasn't ready to make the commitment just yet. I have recently applied again, and have been asked to come into the recruiting office with my transcript etc, I was just wondering if they would have my old application still on file and if I would have to retake the CFAT for this second application? It's not a big deal to me as I have been practicing my math lately but I was just wondering because If I don't have to take it again it would be awesome  ;D any help would be greatly appreciated please



Yes, they should have access to your old application and NO, your CFAT scores should also be available so you don't have to redo it but you will have to write the TSD.


----------



## DannyD

DAA, you mention 2010. I did mine when I joined in 2007 and as I reapplied last month, the recruiter told me that I didn't need to redo it. Is there something I'm missing?


----------



## DAA

DannyD said:
			
		

> DAA, you mention 2010. I did mine when I joined in 2007 and as I reapplied last month, the recruiter told me that I didn't need to redo it. Is there something I'm missing?



I "edited" my previous post, bad wording on my part.  If you wrote the "CFAT", you are okay.  If you wrote either of the GC Exams and/or Classification Batteries, then I think that as of 2010, you have to write the CFAT as they can't really convert the scores.  I am going to have to go back and look at it again just to be sure on dates and requirements.


----------



## DannyD

Roger that! You got me worried for a second, haha!


----------



## JoeDos

My CFAT is in about 2 weeks, and I am getting nervous. I understand the practice exam is to help get into test mode, but considering I just got out of school I am already in that mode. I have been working on math questions, and using a ASVAB and CFAT practice guide but I still am worried. 

Would anyone be able to give some more resources to help study? Or any suggestions on how to go about the CFAT? 

Thanks for your time.


----------



## Goose15

J_M_J_D said:
			
		

> My CFAT is in about 2 weeks, and I am getting nervous. I understand the practice exam is to help get into test mode, but considering I just got out of school I am already in that mode. I have been working on math questions, and using a ASVAB and CFAT practice guide but I still am worried.
> 
> Would anyone be able to give some more resources to help study? Or any suggestions on how to go about the CFAT?
> 
> Thanks for your time.



Make sure that you can do all of the practice questions of Forces.ca without difficulty. General aptitude tests likethis are good practice. Continuing using the resources you already have.

BIGGEST things though:
-Be well rested
-Be well hydrated
-Relax
-Be confident
-Remain calm

Good luck!


----------



## JoeDos

The practice test provided by the CFRC is way way to easy for me, but from what I understand is the CFAT is not that easy. I guess my main worry is Math, with this book I have for the CFAT it helps you determine your weak areas, Verbal and Spatial I have no problems with and some of the problem solving questions like sequencing and patterns are simple for me. I guess I will just continue studying I just really don't want to mess this up, I am not the person to want to be a cook, or steward or even a postal clerk. No offense to anyone in any of those professions, but I am more of a technical/hands on person.


----------



## Goose15

J_M_J_D said:
			
		

> The practice test provided by the CFRC is way way to easy for me, but from what I understand is the CFAT is not that easy. I guess my main worry is Math, with this book I have for the CFAT it helps you determine your weak areas, Verbal and Spatial I have no problems with and some of the problem solving questions like sequencing and patterns are simple for me. I guess I will just continue studying I just really don't want to mess this up, I am not the person to want to be a cook, or steward or even a postal clerk. No offense to anyone in any of those professions, but I am more of a technical/hands on person.



Honestly, I am sure you will be just fine. I don't remember the math being much more excessively difficult than the practice.  General math aptitude tests are good based on what I have seen. 

Out of interest what are you applying to exactly?

Here is a list my recruiter gave me:

http://www.military.com/ASVAB
http://www.testprepreview.com/sat_practice.htm
http://www.complore.com/files/GRE_Maths_Arithmetic_Practice.pdf
http://www.psychometric-success.com/practice-papers/Psychometric%20Success%20Spatial%20Ability%20-%20Practice%20Test%201.pdf
http://www.testprepreview.com/vocabulary.htm
http://www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=12
http://www.intelligencetest.com/
http://www.testreadypro.com/CFAT.aspx
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/pract-test-examn-pract/grt-erd-pract-eng.htm
www.math.com


----------



## JoeDos

Goose15 said:
			
		

> Honestly, I am sure you will be just fine. I don't remember the math being much more excessively difficult than the practice.  General math aptitude tests are good based on what I have seen.
> 
> Out of interest what are you applying to exactly?
> 
> Here is a list my recruiter gave me:
> 
> http://www.military.com/ASVAB
> http://www.testprepreview.com/sat_practice.htm
> http://www.complore.com/files/GRE_Maths_Arithmetic_Practice.pdf
> http://www.psychometric-success.com/practice-papers/Psychometric%20Success%20Spatial%20Ability%20-%20Practice%20Test%201.pdf
> http://www.testprepreview.com/vocabulary.htm
> http://www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=12
> http://www.intelligencetest.com/
> http://www.testreadypro.com/CFAT.aspx
> http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/pract-test-examn-pract/grt-erd-pract-eng.htm
> www.math.com



I was applying to become a Combat Engineer, Army Communication Information System Specialist, and Naval Communicator. But I kind of wanted to do Artillery instead of Nav Com.


----------



## Goose15

J_M_J_D said:
			
		

> I was applying to become a Combat Engineer, Army Communication Information System Specialist, and Naval Communicator. But I kind of wanted to do Artillery instead of Nav Com.



Well if you are sure you want to change your choice(s) tell your recruiter. It shouldn't be an issue as you haven't even written your CFAT.


----------



## JoeDos

Goose15 said:
			
		

> Well if you are sure you want to change your choice(s) tell your recruiter. It shouldn't be an issue as you haven't even written your CFAT.



Haha I attempted to and just got a response that was as follows "when you come in for your CFAT you can make the change then." I have so much stress going on right now I am worried about the CFAT and I was just recently offered a job but I am worried about schedule conflicts for the CFAT, Medical, and Interview.
Even though it is only part-time and the supervisor knows I am trying to join the forces I am still worried haha.


----------



## Goose15

J_M_J_D said:
			
		

> Haha I attempted to and just got a response that was as follows "when you come in for your CFAT you can make the change then." I have so much stress going on right now I am worried about the CFAT and I was just recently offered a job but I am worried about schedule conflicts for the CFAT, Medical, and Interview.
> Even though it is only part-time and the supervisor knows I am trying to join the forces I am still worried haha.



Well I'm sure you'll be able to workout a schedule, especially as you need to be relaxed for the CFAT. Over-stressing, being over-tired etcetera can sometimes be more detrimental than not doing any study prep. You will be fine


----------



## JoeDos

Goose15 said:
			
		

> Well I'm sure you'll be able to workout a schedule, especially as you need to be relaxed for the CFAT. Over-stressing, being over-tired etcetera can sometimes be more detrimental than not doing any study prep. You will be fine



Well the plus side is that the schedule is put up 3 weeks in advance and its only part-time hours, I think I am just going to focus on getting to basic for early April (I hope).


----------



## GiveMeYourPie

Posting a bit late but just in case anyone wants some help I found this bad boy http://www.amazon.ca/Complete-Canadian-Aptitude-Practice-Questions-ebook/dp/B00BBKEZKY

Going to order it for my CFAT and give it a shot. I consider myself average when it comes to intellect but I just want to make sure I do fine. I tend to get extremely nervous for tests. 

Good luck to anyone else going in to take the CFAT!


----------



## JoeDos

GiveMeYourPie said:
			
		

> Posting a bit late but just in case anyone wants some help I found this bad boy http://www.amazon.ca/Complete-Canadian-Aptitude-Practice-Questions-ebook/dp/B00BBKEZKY
> 
> Going to order it for my CFAT and give it a shot. I consider myself average when it comes to intellect but I just want to make sure I do fine. I tend to get extremely nervous for tests.
> 
> Good luck to anyone else going in to take the CFAT!



Haha I ordered it a little bit ago, it's alright but I have found myself procrastinating soooooooooo much when it comes to studying. I have my CFAT in a little over a week. :-X


----------



## GiveMeYourPie

I'm still trying to get a hold of my local CFRC to book my CFAT. I'm sure they're very busy... anyway, good luck!


----------



## Goose15

GiveMeYourPie said:
			
		

> I'm still trying to get a hold of my local CFRC to book my CFAT. I'm sure they're very busy... anyway, good luck!



If your CFRC is Hamilton keep calling as you shouldn't have an issue getting in touch. I can tell they are incredibly busy right now (at least for medicals and interviews). Hopefully, since you're reserve, less so for the CFAT so you can write then go ahead and and meet with your actual unit. 

Good luck


----------



## s2184

Fotoshark said:
			
		

> It is called ... The Comprehensive Guide to Canadian Military, Border Services, Corrections and Security Exams
> 
> Looks like this ...



You can borrow this item from Toronto Public Library.


----------



## Young416

Hello,

I've applied online to do the Abornigal Entry Plan, Just curious what's the passing CFAT score? My test is on March 7th 2014 I've gotton a good understanding with the online practice test.  And used cfatready.ca  what else would I expect on the test?

Thanks


----------



## JoeDos

Young416 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I've applied online to do the Abornigal Entry Plan, Just curious what's the passing CFAT score? My test is on March 7th 2014 I've gotton a good understanding with the online practice test.  And used cfatready.ca  what else would I expect on the test?
> 
> Thanks



I will be able to tell you on Tuesday because I used cfatready.ca and a bunch of other material, although I didn't apply for Aboriginal Entry Plan we are not allowed to discuss scores, and others use the search function you should find some good material in which can help you.


----------



## stealthylizard

There really isn't a "pass/fail" mark.  Each trade has their own benchmarks.


----------



## Young416

I've been looking around on the forms but haven't seem to find any luck.. Is it possible to find the full cfat aptitude test for maximum study?


----------



## Nfld Sapper

:facepalm:

No


----------



## Michael OLeary

The purpose of the CFAT is to test your _aptitude_, not your ability for rote memorization. Making the test available would invalidate it.


----------



## Young416

That's understable.
Thank you


----------



## Treemoss

I went in to my local RC the other day to drop off some papers for my file when they started talking to me about my previous CFAT. They said that when I did it 7 years ago, I failed to make the med tech position. They also said that considering I was in high school at the time and that I clearly went on to further educate myself 7 years later, that they'd either make me do the test again now or consider giving me a waiver.

My question, does anyone have any experience or knowledge surrounding how the waivers work?


----------



## DAA

Chances are, you will have to re-write the CFAT and also the TSD.

Start studying.......


----------



## Treemoss

What exactly is the TSD? I've never heard of that one heh.


----------



## KerryBlue

Treemoss said:
			
		

> What exactly is the TSD? I've never heard of that one heh.



http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/109056.0

It is in essence a personality test..


----------



## Shamrock

Treemoss said:
			
		

> I went in to my local RC the other day to drop off some papers for my file when they started talking to me about my previous CFAT. They said that when I did it 7 years ago, I failed to make the med tech position. They also said that considering I was in high school at the time and that I clearly went on to further educate myself 7 years later, that they'd either make me do the test again now or consider giving me a waiver.
> 
> My question, does anyone have any experience or knowledge surrounding how the waivers work?



CFAT Waivers are incredibly rare but do exist.

I work with a former CWO who was commissioned to Captain.  After several years, he transferred to the Primary Reserves, and because of his commissioning plan, reverted to CWO.  For him to become a captain again, he had to write the CFAT.  Although he had already done the job for several years, a waiver would not be entertained.


----------



## Treemoss

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/109056.0
> 
> It is in essence a personality test..



Ahhh, k that makes sense. I wonder why I would have to do one though x.x



			
				Shamrock said:
			
		

> CFAT Waivers are incredibly rare but do exist.
> 
> I work with a former CWO who was commissioned to Captain.  After several years, he transferred to the Primary Reserves, and because of his commissioning plan, reverted to CWO.  For him to become a captain again, he had to write the CFAT.  Although he had already done the job for several years, a waiver would not be entertained.



That sucks... wishful thinking I guess hah.


----------



## Goose15

Treemoss said:
			
		

> Ahhh, k that makes sense. I wonder why I would have to do one though x.x



I believe everyone has to do the personality test now. Not specifically you lol.


----------



## KerryBlue

Goose15 said:
			
		

> I believe everyone has to do the personality test now. Not specifically you lol.



Yep it's part of initial processing. No longer is everyone guaranteed a medical or interview, instead using your CFAT score, TSD and resume/volunteer expirence/etc... you have to be specially selected for further processing.


----------



## Remius

Depends on what you studied.  Back in the day, we granted waivers to people that were trade or professionally qualified.  For example if you were a Nurse, with three years experience, applied, failed the CFAT, waiver granted. (Kind of dumb to tell you don't have the aptitude to be a Nurse when you are in fact one).  waivers were also given to officer applicants with degrees if they failed from time to time.  saw it for mechanics who had their papers.  Things like that.

But the policies do change at the speed of business.

You may have been confused with the rewrite policy which they will grant if you upgraded your education.


----------



## Goose15

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> Yep it's part of initial processing. No longer is everyone guaranteed a medical or interview, instead using your CFAT score, TSD and resume/volunteer expirence/etc... you have to be specially selected for further processing.



Oh really? That is interesting I was not aware of this; it makes sense though. Do you know how new this policy is by chance? I got past this particular phase so I didn't even consider the fact it may not be guaranteed (as long as you passed the CFAT of course).


----------



## The_Falcon

There is a 20 page thread on all things CFAT here http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/23193.475  start reading. I am not merging, since it's already long, and obvious people don't read it. 

Locked

Hatchet Man
Army.ca Staff


----------



## Young416

Hello. Well I have been studying for my cfat I came upon a website cfatready.ca I believe it's a scam to getting some extra $. Does anyone on the forms ever used this service ?


----------



## Tibbson

Young416 said:
			
		

> Hello. Well I have been studying for my cfat I came upon a website cfatready.ca I believe it's a scam to getting some extra $. Does anyone on the forms ever used this service ?



I have no idea on the site but I lost any interest in checking further once I read on the main page "Pass the CFAT".  I never knew it was a pass or fail test.


----------



## Young416

Exactly! That's what caught my attention


----------



## Tibbson

Young416 said:
			
		

> Exactly! That's what caught my attention



Then, with all that having been said I think it's safe to say you can save your money and still do well on the test.  Heck, you may even score "Officer" with those powers of deduction.  lol  

Good luck with the real CFAT when the time comes.  If you Google you will find copies of a practice CFAT out there.


----------



## DAA

Young416 said:
			
		

> Hello. Well I have been studying for my cfat I came upon a website cfatready.ca I believe it's a scam to getting some extra $. Does anyone on the forms ever used this service ?



Why pay money to them, when you can buy a subscription here at Army.ca and get better advice -------->  http://army.ca/subscribe/

Such as.....see this post ---->  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107882/post-1292655#msg1292655


----------



## village_idiot

My personal experience with it was positive.

I used CFAT Ready and math.com to study and I feel like it made a difference.  I can't really say how it compares to other resources that may be out there though.


----------



## GiveMeYourPie

I write my cfat this Tuesday and while reviewing I came upon this practice exam http://www.4tests.com/asvab  I think this is a pretty good practice exam to help with problem solving questions. It gives you a question, do it, select your answer then when you click show answer it shows you the correct answer and explains how to do it. Seems legit to me. 

Good luck to everyone, hope this helps.  

PS Before you click "Start the exam" deselect questions regarding stuff like auto and shop information or electronics information... unless you want to know things like how oil leaks occur.


----------



## Amanda winter

Im booked for the 15th of april. Now they didnt specifiy if it will be aptitude/physical/interview all in one or not As ive not had any of the above mentioned done. But in the confirmation email they said it was from 10am-1pm. Does it normally go for 3 hours just for aptitude or should I bring PT clothes for physical just incase and should I be dressed for an interview just in case as well? Ive emailed and called back to get more confirmation and patiently waiting a response, but would like to k ow if anyone here has extra information. 

thanks


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Yes.


----------



## BorisK

I suggest calling your recruiter on Monday to confirm details, but in my recent experience (CFAT written on January 15) the process was about 3 hours.

20-30 mins of waiting/getting sorted before we started the test.  
90 or so minutes of testing (personality test included) 
1 hour to wait your turn and then get a chance to hear the results of your CFAT from a recruiter.  

They were sympathetic to people who were in a hurry to leave for other obligations so they asked if anyone needed to leave quickly when it was time to wait for your results, and they in turn professed those people first.  

Was a pretty painless process but yes it did take 3/4 hours.  Bring patience.


----------



## o AXE

BorisK said:
			
		

> Is suggest calling your recruiter on Monday to confirm details, but in my recent experience (CFAT written on January 15) the process was about 3 hours.
> 
> 20-30 mins of waiting/getting sorted before we started the test.
> 90 or so minutes of testing (personality test included)
> 1 hour to wait your turn and then get a chance to hear the results of your CFAT from a recruiter.
> 
> They were sympathetic to people who were in a hurry to leave for other obligations so they asked if anyone needed to leave quickly when it was time to wait for your results, and they in turn professed those people first.
> 
> Was a pretty painless process but yes it did take 3/4 hours.  Bring patience.



This was almost exactly my experience late January 2014.


----------



## JoeDos

BorisK said:
			
		

> Is suggest calling your recruiter on Monday to confirm details, but in my recent experience (CFAT written on January 15) the process was about 3 hours.
> 
> 20-30 mins of waiting/getting sorted before we started the test.
> 90 or so minutes of testing (personality test included)
> 1 hour to wait your turn and then get a chance to hear the results of your CFAT from a recruiter.
> 
> They were sympathetic to people who were in a hurry to leave for other obligations so they asked if anyone needed to leave quickly when it was time to wait for your results, and they in turn professed those people first.
> 
> Was a pretty painless process but yes it did take 3/4 hours.  Bring patience.



This process was almost the exact same for me except I was first to be called in.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Amanda winter said:
			
		

> Im booked for the 15th of april. Now they didnt specifiy if it will be aptitude/physical/interview all in one or not As ive not had any of the above mentioned done. But in the confirmation email they said it was from 10am-1pm. Does it normally go for 3 hours just for aptitude or should I bring PT clothes for physical just incase and should I be dressed for an interview just in case as well? Ive emailed and called back to get more confirmation and patiently waiting a response, but would like to k ow if anyone here has extra information.
> 
> thanks



Ideally, you should have been told exactly what is taking place that day (i.e. interview, medical, etc.). My RC always let me know what portions of the process were on for my appointment dates, but sometimes details get overlooked, as in other applicant's experiences. 

If you aren't able to confirm details with anyone before your date, bring a change of clothes for a medical, just in case. (Gym clothes, comfortable, easy to move in.) As well, even if you only end up writing the CFAT and TSD, it doesn't hurt to look presentable. It never hurts to take pride in your appearance.


----------



## Amanda winter

Thanks for the feedback everyone!


----------



## Username1900

I think it is just the CFAT. I recently took it and the email said that it would be a 3 hour thing.


----------



## JP2371

I just finished my CFAT, and if you study what THEY tell you to study, and what the have posted on the Forces.ca website, you will do fine. It's a lot easier then I thought it would be. And I was just like all you guys going in, nervous as hell, and I just wanted to say, it's really not that bad. I qualified for all my trades (Infantry, Artillery, and Weapons Tech) btw, so seriously, just study what they tell you to, and you'll do great.


----------



## cfournier

Young416 said:
			
		

> Hello. Well I have been studying for my cfat I came upon a website cfatready.ca I believe it's a scam to getting some extra $. Does anyone on the forms ever used this service ?



I used this to help study. Its not a scam, its quite helpful but definitely not worth paying for. You can easily find other FREE study aids that work just as effectively. Just my opinion though! 

Edited to add to my $0.02 : I found this forum much more helpful than that website


----------



## Drake.Kho

a friend of mine lent me his account for CFAT ready, and while some might find it useful, there are certainly better resources out there.

-you can't really prepare for the verbal portion of the test. you either know it or you don't.
-the spatial question of CFAT ready aren't perfect, they have mistakes on it. but it gives you a decent ideas of what to expect. you can find better free sites that provide you with more examples with correct answers.
-Problem solving section, math problems is all about repetition and speed. with the few problem solving questions that CFATReady provides, it isn't really much of a help to anyone. you're better off buying the 501 math word problems book that the CF recommends, to help with problem recognition, and just basic elementary school math problems to improve your speed.


----------



## The_Falcon

There tons of posts and opinons about various test prep sites and books.  We don't need another one, read and reply using an EXISTING thread.

locked.


----------



## alext

I apologize if this topic is already covered, the system is down for the search option and I am looking for a tutor to help me get 100% ready for the CFAT. I am preparing on my own but I need the confidence and all the help I can get. Does anybody know who I can get on board to help me pass this test? 

Thank you guys!

Alex


----------



## Goose15

alext said:
			
		

> I apologize if this topic is already covered, the system is down for the search option and I am looking for a tutor to help me get 100% ready for the CFAT. I am preparing on my own but I need the confidence and all the help I can get. Does anybody know who I can get on board to help me pass this test?
> 
> Thank you guys!
> 
> Alex



This thread has a ton of information in it: Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ

You can also search by going to Google and typing in: "army.ca/forums: keywords".

No one can actually tutor you as the CFAT questions are classified and we are not allowed to disclose the specific testing information. That said, the above thread has lots of information steering you in the right direction for studying and prep.

Good luck.

Edit to add: For the OP and anyone else to whom this pertains: Don't stress, study what is recommended go in with a good night's sleep and you will be fine.


----------



## George Wallace

Topic now LOCKED


----------



## horadricbacon

Hello.  I do understand that there are restrictions when it comes to disclosing specific information about the CFAT test.  So, I apologize before hand if this information can not be brought out into the open.

I've attempted to use the Search ability on the Message Forum to find topics in relation to this, but it appears I keep getting a server busy error when I attempt.

Anyway, my question is.  During the CFAT, are you allowed to use pencil and paper to attempt to figure out solutions to difficult math problems or must you calculate it mentally?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being able to come up with solutions to difficult math problems in my head, but square roots, area of a circle and advanced multiplication can be tough without some scratch paper.

I attempted to find this answer on the Canadian Forces site, I found the following quotes on the information page for the hire process:

"...we cannot offer accommodations, such as letting you use a calculator, have additional time, or read questions aloud, as that would prevent us from gaining an accurate measurement of specific skills."

"You may also want to review problem solving skills like fractions, decimals and long division by hand (calculators are not allowed)."

Clearly, calculators are restricted.  However, there's no mention of scrap paper and pencil being restricted.

It may not seem like a big deal, but it would really ease the mind knowing.

Thanks.


----------



## stealthylizard

Yes, you can use paper and pencil to do calculations.


----------



## JoeDos

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> Yes, you can use paper and pencil to do calculations.



You can use them yes, but bring them no. The CFRC provides them.


----------



## horadricbacon

Fantastic.  Thanks for the quick replies.  I really appreciate it.


----------



## The_Falcon

horadricbacon said:
			
		

> Hello.  I do understand that there are restrictions when it comes to disclosing specific information about the CFAT test.  So, I apologize before hand if this information can not be brought out into the open.
> 
> I've attempted to use the Search ability on the Message Forum to find topics in relation to this, but it appears I keep getting a server busy error when I attempt.
> 
> Anyway, my question is.  During the CFAT, are you allowed to use pencil and paper to attempt to figure out solutions to difficult math problems or must you calculate it mentally?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being able to come up with solutions to difficult math problems in my head, but square roots, area of a circle and advanced multiplication can be tough without some scratch paper.
> 
> I attempted to find this answer on the Canadian Forces site, I found the following quotes on the information page for the hire process:
> 
> "...we cannot offer accommodations, such as letting you use a calculator, have additional time, or read questions aloud, as that would prevent us from gaining an accurate measurement of specific skills."
> 
> "You may also want to review problem solving skills like fractions, decimals and long division by hand (calculators are not allowed)."
> 
> Clearly, calculators are restricted.  However, there's no mention of scrap paper and pencil being restricted.
> 
> It may not seem like a big deal, but it would really ease the mind knowing.
> 
> Thanks.



You don't need the search function, there is a 21 page STICKIED FAQ about the CFAT at the very top of this sub-forum you posted in.  

Locked.


----------



## Patrick101

Hi Guys,

Wondering if it's possible to write CFAT online? I have no transportation to get to any recruiting branch...is this at all possible to do?


----------



## RedcapCrusader

CFAT is conducted in a supervised and controlled environment and within a CFRC to protect the integrity of the exam as there is a nondisclosure agreement that is signed.


----------



## PuckChaser

Get a cab? Bike? Walk? Hitchhike? Getting to a recruiting center is the first test you need to pass to enroll in the CAF.


----------



## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Get a cab? Bike? Walk? Hitchhike? Getting to a recruiting center is the first test you need to pass to enroll in the CAF.



...or any job interview.


----------



## Shamrock

I recruited from a very remote area.  The recruiting centre paid for me to travel for my testing, interviews, etc. While I realize this was some time ago, it may still be an option.


----------



## ShadyBrah

Like the above said, the CFAT can only be written at the RC. 

There must be some way you can get there... And yes they pay your transportation money. It's calculated based on where you come from, and the cheapest method of transportation. (They will only give you bus fare if you have access to a route, regardless if you drove or bussed. )


----------



## runormal

I drove an hour each way to get to the rc and was given around 80 bucks for mileage. I'm not sure how far you are away but this will still exist. I read recently (less than 3 months ago) that one applicant was getting his hotel paid for by the caf.

Do you want to swear in and do your interview, and medical via Skype?

You must have a family member/friend who can either drive you or lend you a car. My mother would always car pool with a co worker and lend me the van. Hell one day I even paid a friend $100 to drive me to a course using my moms van.


----------



## The_Falcon

You must write in person, for a variety of reasons.  If you are some distance away, you will be reimbursed.  There are no exceptions to this.

Locked.

HM


----------



## Patrick101

Hey,

So I wrote the CFAT years ago when I was 18 or 19 and failed. Now years later, I'm still trying to get into Infantry. I called recruiter today and he says I have to come in and convince career counselor why I should be able to write it again...I wrote this when I was a kid..now Im a man...the one thing that motivates me to write again...is the recruiter today told me that I JUST fell short my first time...thats good news I guess, I was close to passing for Infantry the first time around...my math and spatila reasoning sucks, but my English is excellent..this is my last chance Im sure, and I'll make the most of it....I just find it hard to believe MATH is what's in the way of my dream...Im big, muscular, full of courage and hardly any fear....but I cant get to the next stage after all these years because i dont know how fast a speeding train goes.


----------



## Patrick101

Anyone? Is Infantry typically a competitive position? I want in, and Ill beat others to get there...just dont ask me math questions


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Taking a look at the structure, grammar, spelling etc. of your post, you're lying about being good at English as well. 

Believe it or not, there is a minimum requirement of each category tested in the CFAT for every trade. Yes, believe it or not, the Infantry no longer just looks for big, muscular oafs who just want to shoot and blow stuff up. They want educated, smart, well rounded people too. You can have all the strength and courage in the world, but if you math is so terrible that you can't even get into the infantry with your combined score... Maybe you need to look at going back to school?

You want to beat others to get it? Start with your math. They'll take everyone with better math competence than your muscle and courage any day. Muscle, fearlessness and Courage can be taught and created through the CAF training system, but a basic understanding of arithmetic is your responsibility to have before you join.

Just the cold hard truth.

Edit: Yes, all combat arms trades are competitive because with the end of the Afghanistan campaign, budget cuts, there are too many infanteers and tankers etc. Than there is a need for so there are hundreds of people competing for a handful of positions... A friend of mine got into the infantry as an NCM last year after 2 years of waiting and he has a degree in Biomechanical Engineering. Some food for thought.


----------



## BorisK

A few tips for the math that worked for me : 

1) Learn it because you actually want to understand it, not because you want to fake your way pass the test.  

2) Start with running through some long division, and multiplication, by hand... Over and over, create random questions on a piece of paper and then smash them out one after the other.  It sucks, but just do it.  Then move onto fractions, algebra, trig, etc etc etc.  It's the repeated repetitions, trying to fly through questions, without a calculator, that will build memory and skill.  

It seems annoying but a month or two of it will pay off I promise.  

Lastly, there exists ample resources online and on the App Store.  Make use of them.  

Best of luck.  If you care enough you will improve your math skills drastically in the next few months.  Worth it in the long run.


----------



## Emilio

> Yes, all combat arms trades are competitive because with the end of the Afghanistan campaign, budget cuts, there are too many infanteers and tankers etc. Than there is a need for so there are hundreds of people competing for a handful of positions... A friend of mine got into the infantry as an NCM last year after 2 years of waiting and he has a degree in Biomechanical Engineering. Some food for thought.



Was your friend waiting for a CT? or was he actually going through the process as a civilian. Also how much of his time was spent going through the application process, and how much of it was spent on the actual merit list? 

And to the OP, I also have terrible, lower then remedial level understanding of math.

But when it comes to the math portion of the CFAT (problem solving) all that matters is to be prepared. Just simply look through the CFAT thread on this site, and practice the type of math that comes up on it. I cannot go into details, but the math which you will find on the CFAT thread and the practice test is similar to the math on test.... 

All you have to do is spend time maybe 30-45min a day practicing your math, and in no time you will be able to ace the test.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Emilio said:
			
		

> Was your friend waiting for a CT? or was he actually going through the process as a civilian. Also how much of his time was spent going through the application process, and how much of it was spent on the actual merit list?
> 
> And to the OP, I also have terrible, lower then remedial level understanding of math.
> 
> But when it comes to the math portion of the CFAT (problem solving) all that matters is to be prepared. Just simply look through the CFAT thread on this site, and practice the type of math that comes up on it. I cannot go into details, but the math which you will find on the CFAT thread and the practice test is similar to the math on test....
> 
> All you have to do is spend time maybe 30-45min a day practicing your math, and in no time you will be able to ace the test.



Total, start to finish. Not that it matters.


----------



## The_Falcon

There is already a 24 page FAQ on the CFAT, covering everthing you could possibly need to know.  Start reading.

Locked.

HM


----------



## Anten33

Hello.

I went to write my CFAT this morning, at my local recruitment office, and for the first time they asked me if I had written an aptitude test for any part of the military, regular or reserve at any point in time. When I was in high school in 2000, I tried to gain entry into a military co-op with the Grey & Simcoe Foresters. At that time I did badly on the test, and was told that the only position I qualified for was as an airline attendant.

High school was difficult for me, and when I graduated I was glad to be done. I did not get the best marks, actually I missed one OAC preventing me from getting into university, but I did get high enough marks to get into the college of my choice. Since then I have graduated with 9 (not a typo) different degrees, diplomas and certificates. 4 diplomas (3 2year diplomas and 1 3 year diploma) 3 certificates (2 undergrad certificates and 1 post grad certificate), 1 professional designation with the Canadian Payroll Association, and a degree in Administration. 6 diplomas and certificates with honours (over 80%) degree (over 75%).

I have been told that the recruitment center requires my original aptitude test to review, and they said that I might have made the grade to get into the officer careers that I want (#1 Logistics, #2 Health Care Administrator, #3 Air Combat Systems Officer). 

My four main questions are:
1) Has the CFAT changed in the last 14 years
2) If it has changed how, will my results be different
3) in prior posts when people discuss this issue they suggest doing well in post secondary, as you can see from above I have done this, will this allow me to retake the test.
4) do I have anything to worry about, in regards to this issue

Any insight will be appreciated.


----------



## DAA

Anten33 said:
			
		

> Hello.
> 
> I went to write my CFAT this morning, at my local recruitment office, and for the first time they asked me if I had written an aptitude test for any part of the military, regular or reserve at any point in time. When I was in high school in 2000, I tried to gain entry into a military co-op with the Grey & Simcoe Foresters. At that time I did badly on the test, and was told that the only position I qualified for was as an airline attendant.
> 
> High school was difficult for me, and when I graduated I was glad to be done. I did not get the best marks, actually I missed one OAC preventing me from getting into university, but I did get high enough marks to get into the college of my choice. Since then I have graduated with 9 (not a typo) different degrees, diplomas and certificates. 4 diplomas (3 2year diplomas and 1 3 year diploma) 3 certificates (2 undergrad certificates and 1 post grad certificate), 1 professional designation with the Canadian Payroll Association, and a degree in Administration. 6 diplomas and certificates with honours (over 80%) degree (over 75%).
> 
> I have been told that the recruitment center requires my original aptitude test to review, and they said that I might have made the grade to get into the officer careers that I want (#1 Logistics, #2 Health Care Administrator, #3 Air Combat Systems Officer).
> 
> My four main questions are:
> 1) Has the CFAT changed in the last 14 years
> 2) If it has changed how, will my results be different
> 3) in prior posts when people discuss this issue they suggest doing well in post secondary, as you can see from above I have done this, will this allow me to retake the test.
> 4) do I have anything to worry about, in regards to this issue
> 
> Any insight will be appreciated.



1)  Yes, it has changed in the last 14 years
2)  Chances are your results from 2000 may not be convertable to the new scoring matrix
3)  You're probably going to have to retake the test anyhow
4)  Make sure you study Gr 10/Gr 11 math.

Good luck!


----------



## Anten33

Thank you DAA for your quick response.

If as you say: 


> 2)  Chances are your results from 2000 may not be convertable to the new scoring matrix
> 3)  You're probably going to have to retake the test anyhow



Why do they require to review my previous test before I write the new test? Why could they not just let me write my CFAT today?

Anten33


----------



## Coastalchaos

I wrote the CFAT in 2002 and only had to redo a section of it when I re-applied in April.  The rest of my scores were kept.


----------



## stayfrosty

I also wrote a CFAT in 2002, and in May was told that my scores qualified me for all 3 of my trade choices...  :nod:


----------



## The_Falcon

Anten33 said:
			
		

> Thank you DAA for your quick response.
> 
> If as you say:
> Why do they require to review my previous test before I write the new test? Why could they not just let me write my CFAT today?
> 
> Anten33



It's standard to review and verify prior test scores if you have done it already, and if it was that long ago those scores need to be retrieved manually. 

And to the other two (and anyone else who reads this),  if you don't actually have INSIGHT into WHY a decision may have been made, we generally prefer your refrain from posting for the sake of posting.


----------



## DAA

Hatchet Man pretty much summed it up in their post.

If you indicated on your application or during any interview, that you had previous written any type of CF entry exam (ie; GC2, GC3, Classification Battery or CFAT), then your CFRC is obligated to try and obtain those test scores.

If they can pull those scores, then it's subject to review as to whether or not you need to rewrite the current CFAT.  Seems to be based on circumstance, so there is no real set answer that can be given.

So just go with the flow........but on a personal note!   You should start studying as though you have to write the exam.  It never hurts to be prepared.......


----------



## stayfrosty

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> And to the other two (and anyone else who reads this),  if you don't actually have INSIGHT into WHY a decision may have been made, we generally prefer your refrain from posting for the sake of posting.



Just making an observation based on my own experiences which seemed similar to the other poster's experiences. Wasn't drawing any conclusions, just sharing a similar situation. Sorry if the posting was out of line.


----------



## Sky-Dreamer

Hello,

I need to know how many questions per section are there in the test ?

They provide an example of a test. They tell that there wil be "MORE" questions. I want to know the exact number or at least the average and or maximum number of questions per section.

Thank you very much


----------



## Garry Waldram

The number of questions per section and amount of time can be found at the forces.ca website on Step 3 of the apply now section.  Please ensure you research and read all sections pertaining to applying.

Additional information regarding CFAT can be found on this form under FAQs

 CFAT Testing Format


----------



## steiner0400

Sky-Dreamer said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I need to know how many questions per section are there in the test ?
> 
> They provide an example of a test. They tell that there wil be "MORE" questions. I want to know the exact number or at least the average and or maximum number of questions per section.
> 
> Thank you very much



Technically we agree to a confidentiality statement prior (or after) the test so no one should be able to disclose anything about it other than personal opinion of a broad spectrum... 

As P.O.2 Garry stated:


			
				Petty Officer 2nd Class Garry said:
			
		

> The number of questions per section and amount of time can be found at the forces.ca website on Step 3 of the apply now section.  Please ensure you research and read all sections pertaining to applying.
> 
> Additional information regarding CFAT can be found on this form under FAQs
> 
> CFAT Testing Format



This ^

Use those little clicky click fingers and do some research. Most everything you do in the process is considered to be a confidential point and should not be disclosed unless otherwise instructed.


----------



## PMedMoe

I believe it's the content of the CFAT as opposed to the structure that needs to be kept confidential.

I did a Google search and found an article in RES MILITARIS, a European Journal of Military Studies.  (Note to Mods: This site is on the open internet)

Take a gander at the articles in Vol. 2, n° 3, Summer - Été 2012

The answer is in one of them.   :nod:


----------



## Heraske

The CFAT example is 100% accurate; in another dimension.

Imagine the real deal having trickier shapes, longer words, and bigger numbers, while being timed.

Harder, bigger, longer, faster.


----------



## spencerd10

I passed my aptitude test for the jobs I applyed for but just barley will I ever get a job offer? My file manager said I passed the test to meet the standards for combat engenieer and infintry. But also said I just passed so do that mean I'll never get a job offer? Has anyone else had similar situations?


----------



## cryco

There's always a chance if you meet the requirements, but from my understanding, it will depend on how many people want the same job, how many jobs are available and how well the others do.


----------



## spencerd10

Thank you for the reply and yes I made the requirements I guess its just waiting game then.


----------



## Moore

spencerd10 said:
			
		

> Thank you for the reply and yes I made the requirements I guess its just waiting game then.



They told me I scored respectively but if I hadn't they would've brought me in to talk about maybe choosing other trades that I'm more competitive for. Give them a phone call and talk about other trades if they don't think you'll get in with your scores or possibly rewrite your CFAT.


----------



## spencerd10

Wow yeah and I've already done my medical and stuff just waiting on a interview but its been awhile since I have herd anything.


----------



## KerryBlue

When did you do your aptitude test and your medical?


----------



## KerryBlue

removed


----------



## spencerd10

Did my app test about a year ago and medical shortly after that. Just went and rewrote my app test again today. When I wrote it the first time I passed it but with a even worse mark then what I got today but I still passed the first time also.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Word of warning, if you choose to re-wrote the CFAT and you get a worse score, they do not let you use the previous one with the higher score, it is the results that are most current.


----------



## spencerd10

Yes I knew that and my most recent one he did say was a better mark not by much but it was better.


----------



## KerryBlue

So you have written the test twice already? Pretty sure for a third chance you need to prove you are either in college or university and not failing your courses.


----------



## Moore

spencerd10 said:
			
		

> Yes I knew that and my most recent one he did say was a better mark not by much but it was better.



Risky haha but congratulations on the better mark. Hopefully the process speeds up for you a bit.


----------



## spencerd10

Yeah so my mark went up but I just want to know if I'll ever be even looked at for a job offer. Or will my file just close after the year.


----------



## KerryBlue

Well until you get a medical/interview/background check completed and your file is merit listed no they wont look at you for a job offer. You need to be on the merit list to be considered for a job.


----------



## RSipkes

I have completed my aptitude test about 8 months ago and was giving a sheet with the eligible trades i could apply for. ALL 3 OF MY CHOICES I COULD APPLY FOR, according to this sheet and having my talk with the recruiter who said I did well. And no when I do my weekly phone check up on my application I was told that I didn't score high enough for my first two choices and the third was closed. I understand my third choice was close but my first two choices I should be eligible for! What could have happen? The recruiting center is in Hamilton and is known for making mistakes. Could this just be a mistake on their behalf? I tried asking them but they say there is no way and that the information is "solid". Its not though... Help? And thank you in advance.


----------



## LSimard

Hello,

I just received an email saying that i  successfully completed the CFAT. Im realy happy, but it say that my results will now be  evaluated in comparison with other successful candidates. What does it mean? Did i pass the CFAT or it's not sure yet? 

Thank you for your time.


----------



## ShadyBrah

They're comparing your scores to everybody else applying to the same trades as you. Usually, Only the more competitive applicants will continue the process.


----------



## Rex12345

I Did the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test back in June 2012 when i dropped out of high school i failed by 2 points and now i went back to school to get my diploma. And i went down today to ask the recruiter how many times i could redo the Canadian Forces Aptitude test and he said "usually once but a 3rd time with academic courses" now i am worried i am going to fail again because of the spatial ability. I have been wanting  to join the Forces since i was 5 has been my dream since and if if fail don't know what i will do then.


----------



## Ayrsayle

Not really sure what you are looking for with your post.

Prepare accordingly and give it your best shot - you may fail, or you may succeed.  If you wanted to vent your worries, this should probably go in the personal stories area of the forum.  If you had a question about the recruiting process, you'd need to make it more clear then you've stated here.


----------



## PMedMoe

Great big thread here: Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ


----------



## Rex12345

I was wondering can you pass the CFAT if you don't get all of the answers right. I mean i failed mine in 2012 by 2 points i had 17 and needed 19 to join Infantry Reserves or do i need to get all answers right. Please someone help with info. I just need some help i don't get it if i only need 19 to join the Infantry Reserves. I guess some questions could be wrong.


----------



## DAA

Rex12345 said:
			
		

> I was wondering can you pass the CFAT if you don't get all of the answers right. I mean i failed mine in 2012 by 2 points i had 17 and needed 19 to join Infantry Reserves or do i need to get all answers right. Please someone help with info. I just need some help i don't get it if i only need 19 to join the Infantry Reserves. I guess some questions could be wrong.



CFAT is not a "pass/fail" type of exam.  So what happened was, you probably didn't meet the minimum cut-off scores for your chosen occupation.  You just need to study hard and do better next time around, you don't need to get all the questions correct, you just need to get more of them correct.


----------



## Rex12345

DAA said:
			
		

> CFAT is not a "pass/fail" type of exam.  So what happened was, you probably didn't meet the minimum cut-off scores for your chosen occupation.  You just need to study hard and do better next time around, you don't need to get all the questions correct, you just need to get more of them correct.


 Yes you are correct she told me i got 17 points and i needed 19 to join the infantry reserves. So i only needed to get to more answers right than i would of been in the reserves already


----------



## Rex12345

Here is a good book to buy if you are preparing to do/redo the CFAT http://books.google.ca/books?id=miKQTyZuGVsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false i know it's only a preview but i am sure i seen those questions from that book on the aptitude test when i did it in 2012.


----------



## Rex12345

Nice good luck on your future in the Canadian Forces i went for Infantry Reserves in June 2012 and failed by 2 points i needed 19 points to qualify for Infantry and i got 17 lol.


----------



## DAA

Or this one as well --->  http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/the-comprehensive-guide-to-canadian/9780986668708-item.html


----------



## Chipp86

Hey there,

I've recently just wrote the CFAT for the second time now, I just received horrible and disappointing news that I didn't qualify. Just wondering where I go from here now, this is all I've ever wanted to do other to serve my country other then play hockey for a living. Do I just fold my cards and walk away from the table cause I've never been one to do so, just very disappointed in myself. Am I going to be giving another chance at all for a third re write how accommodating are they in that regard. I am defiantly seeking upgrading classes as we Speak. Just wondering if someone could shed some light on this dark time for me.

Thanks


----------



## Rex12345

Yes i was wondering since i did my CFAT in June of 2012 I'm making plans to redo it in 2 months. I was wondering will it be in the computer that i already did it once or do i have to go through the process again of talking to the reserves recruiter. Please help as this is really important to me.


----------



## The_Falcon

Rex12345 said:
			
		

> Yes i was wondering since i did my CFAT in June of 2012 I'm making plans to redo it in 2 months. I was wondering will it in the computer that i already did it once or do i have to go through the process again of talking to the reserves recruiter. Please help as this is really important to me.



First you need to have an application open. You can't just take a retest on a whim, you require an active file. 
Second, yes there is a log of all prior attempts, and you may be required to a waiver, depending on the particulars of your situation.  The recruiting folks will advise you.


----------



## Rex12345

Are the questions in this format on this test same as the CFAT. Just asking if this is similar format to the CFAT.
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/test-examen/gct2-ecg2/q-index-eng.php


----------



## krimynal

these are questions that could be on a CFAT test yeah , thought that's the only real answer you could get here , since everyone signs paper about not telling anything about the CFAT test as soon as you enter the room


----------



## Rex12345

krimynal said:
			
		

> these are questions that could be on a CFAT test yeah , thought that's the only real answer you could get here , since everyone signs paper about not telling anything about the CFAT test as soon as you enter the room


 Thanks for clarifying but i was wondering are they in the same format like how there is 2 like in the first question its like the meaning of ostracize for an example it's like 
1. criticize, reproach. Are the questions like that where there is 2 in one answer.


----------



## krimynal

maybe someone else will be able to tell you , to be fair I don't quite remember it , did back in 2005 so it's pretty vague , I do remember it's the same type of questions , but I couldn't tell if it's in the same format


----------



## Rex12345

krimynal said:
			
		

> maybe someone else will be able to tell you , to be fair I don't quite remember it , did back in 2005 so it's pretty vague , I do remember it's the same type of questions , but I couldn't tell if it's in the same format


Okay well thanks for the help anyway appreciate it. Just wanted to know if it was the same format because how there is 2 in answer is what gets me.


----------



## Rex12345

This is another test I'm reviewing to help me pass my 2nd attempt at the CFAT.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=miKQTyZuGVsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false


----------



## The_Falcon

Seeing as how you already wrote the CFAT you should already be familiar with it's format and structure and thus this thread is redundant and now locked.


----------



## Rex12345

If you taking or retaking the CFAT I highly recommend this book https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Complete_Test_Preparation_Team_Pass_the_Cfat?id=miKQTyZuGVsC&hl=en. It really helped me improve my skills in Verbal, Spatial, And somewhat in Math. I just bought it for 7.99 as an e-book.


----------



## itsflashpoint

Hey there,

I have applied for the Forces in October and did my CFAT in November, but its been nearly 3 months since I applied and no one has called me yet, and the website does not seem to update with my application status. Does anyone how long on average it takes for them to get the test marked?

Thanks for your time, and help!


----------



## stealthylizard

Take the initiative.  Call them.


----------



## Goose15

:goodpost:

Always take it upon yourself to keep updated on what is occurring with your file.
As many will inform you every application is very different so timelines are not set in stone. This is the key reason for for the above being so important.


----------



## DAA

itsflashpoint said:
			
		

> I have applied for the Forces in October and did my CFAT in November, but its been nearly 3 months since I applied and no one has called me yet, and the website does not seem to update with my application status. Does anyone how long on average it takes for them to get the test marked?



Tests are scored the same day you write them and in most but not all cases, they will sometimes "debrief" you prior to leaving your CFRC or will send you a letter within a few weeks which provides additional information.

Like stealthylizard has mentioned above, give them a call and see what your status is.


----------



## canadastrong

I've finally received the date for my aptitude after 3 months of falling through the cracks and my application getting lost! I'm extremely excited yet also confused as to what I'll be doing at my appointment.

I know that the aptitude test is 45  minutes, but in the email they told me that my appointment would be approximately 3hrs. My question is whether I'll be doing my medical and/or my interview in the same appointment? There wasn't anything on the email regarding that but I'm rather confused.

Thank you in advance for the assistance.


----------



## ShadyBrah

The test itself is 45 minutes. Before the test, the recruiters take and check paperwork from everybody, abd then spend time clearly explaining the test. After the test you meet with your file manager. Depending on the order and hiw many people are there, this could take another hour or so. My appointment was about 2.5 hours.


----------



## AllSmiles

Quick background:
I thought when I was 17 that I wanted to become a reservist after some MCs stopped by my school.
Turns out I was a pretty dumb 17 year old and lost interest.

Give that about 9 years and I am ready to commit, I have applied for infantry in the regular forces and am still waiting to hear back for my first contact. I am so dedicated to this now that I have had some time in the workforce outside of school to grow into an adult.

I made it up to the medical exam stage and was offered a position that 17 year old me turned down, but the important part is that I aced my CFAT, or at least, competitive score.

Does this mean that in my new application process I will have to redo the test? 
Would they still have my old test results on file?
It might speed up the time from application to BMQ.

Sorry I couldn't post this in the sticky for some reason.


----------



## The_Falcon

AllSmiles said:
			
		

> Quick background:
> I thought when I was 17 that I wanted to become a reservist after some MCs stopped by my school.
> Turns out I was a pretty dumb 17 year old and lost interest.
> 
> Give that about 9 years and I am ready to commit, I have applied for infantry in the regular forces and am still waiting to hear back for my first contact. I am so dedicated to this now that I have had some time in the workforce outside of school to grow into an adult.
> 
> I made it up to the medical exam stage and was offered a position that 17 year old me turned down, but the important part is that I aced my CFAT, or at least, competitive score.
> 
> Does this mean that in my new application process I will have to redo the test?
> Would they still have my old test results on file?
> It might speed up the time from application to BMQ.
> 
> Sorry I couldn't post this in the sticky for some reason.



You couldn't post because this topic is locked.  It is locked because it is 26 pages long, and it's the same questions and answers over and over.  I suggest you start reading...from the beginning.


----------



## cryco

something fun to do to expand or refresh your vocabulary, on the Merriam Webster site:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/quiz/index.htm
It's a small 10 question word quiz.


----------



## Molloy91

Hello,

I recently wrote the test with the intent of joining to become a firefighter. During the meeting with the file manager, he told me I passed and qualified to become a firefighter, but told me my score was not high enough. No other position was offered. Does that mean that I do not qualify for other positions like infantry?

Thank you.


----------



## KerryBlue

Molloy91 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I recently wrote the test with the intent of joining to become a firefighter. During the meeting with the file manager, he told me I passed and qualified to become a firefighter, but told me my score was not high enough. No other position was offered. Does that mean that I do not qualify for other positions like infantry?
> 
> Thank you.



You should ask about other positions. The new recruiting process has the CFAT playing a major part in determining whether or not you are processed. All trades have a certain score to qualify for them, but now there are also competitive minimums which if you do not meet they will not bother processing you. All trades have different minimums, so you maybe able to apply for different positions.


----------



## Moore

Why does everybody think Infantry is the easiest trade to get into?


----------



## Reserve6

Hello,

I am due to do my CFAT test and personality test soon (on the same day). I have a few questions. I did read that huge sticky thread about CFAT but did not get my answer. Here are my questions:

1. How many questions would we get per section?
2. From my understanding if one were to excel at 2/3 components of the CFAT, such as Verbal skills, and Spatial Ability and completing fail the Problem solving one would theoretically pass the test? (I know that I should aim as high as possible and I will, but just to put my mind at ease)
3. I was told to allocate from 8am to noon. I was wondering how much time is giving for each section of the CFAT? 
4. What can I expect from the personality test? Obviously I should be myself but should i brush up on the forces website and try and learn as much as I can anticipating it would be an interview (even though I know the interview would be later on in the application process). 
5. I completed the forces CFAT (the unclassified one they provide) and scored decent. However I keep reading here that it is much difficult. 
6. If someone could give me some advice or point me into a direction where I can get a better or updated tools to aid me on this test. 

Thank you so much in advanced. I know a few of these questions have been answered already but doesn't hurt to ask again (I did spend a lot of time going through this forum)

Have an excellent day guys. 




Additionally any tips would be appreciated. I have been looking over some ebooks and doing practice questions.


----------



## PMedMoe

Here's an answer for question 1.  Not sure of the accuracy, but it sounds about right.

The CFAT is a multiple choice test that assesses your abilities in three distinct areas:
• Verbal Skills (15 questions, maximum time allowed for completion is 5 minutes) 
• Spatial Ability (15 questions, maximum time allowed for completion is 10 minutes) 
• Problem Solving (30 questions, maximum time allowed for completion is 30 minutes) 

With each multiple choice question, you will have four answers to choose from. Only one answer is correct.


Got that here: http://www.11rca.ca/cfat.html


----------



## cryco

It took up most of the morning. So the 4 hours they ask you to reserve is accurate.
Yes, the sample test they provide, even before I took the test, seemed waaay too easy. It gives you an idea of the format and types of questions they can ask.
There is a thread somewhere in here that gives a few links to various tests, one of which is a sample from a book written for the cfat. Take a look at that to get an idea of the difficulty.


----------



## sha106

I had a first visit last week. It took me about 3.5 hours in total. You will need to submit the documents you finished prior to visit the recruiting centre. They check all the documents from the all applicants then you move into a room to take CFAT. For the personality questions, just answer what you think on yourself. Also, I found that the sample questions are way more simple than the actual CFAT. You can review your high school math textbook. You can do some IQ test for the spatial analysis. You can review some vocab text books such as a text book for GRE. There are many sources you can study.

Good luck.


----------



## Reserve6

Thanks again to everyone that replied. I appreciate it. Im really worried about the math portion. Anyways, i'll keep you guys posted as to how I do once I complete it.


----------



## mariomike

Reserve6 said:
			
		

> Im really worried about the math portion.



Lots of CFAT Math advice here:
http://army.ca/forums/threads/109763/post-1214925.html#msg1214925


----------



## PMedMoe

Mods, I suggest a merge with the gigantic CFAT thread....   :nod:


----------



## Loachman

You should become DS...


----------



## PMedMoe

Loachman said:
			
		

> You should become DS...



No thanks.


----------



## DAA

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> No thanks.



Posting as a "Recruiter"?  It could be arranged!


----------



## M.Hamada

Hello

I did the CFAT yesterday and did not meet standards, I found some great sites that I know for a fact will help, because I still have an idea of what it was like. There is this book however, that is parallel to a program that the same company offers, called "The Comprehensive Guide to Canadian Military, Border Services, Corrections and Security Exams" it is 30 dollars. The program has video tutorials, and 4 more practice tests than the book, its 130 dollars. I would just like to know if anyone has used this program or read the book. the link to the book is http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/books/the-comprehensive-guide-to-canadian/9780986668708-item.html?ikwsec=Home&ikwidx=2 and the link for the program is https://www.publicserviceprep.com/secure/ChooseAccountTypeNF.aspx


I know that it shouldn't be worth 130 to practice for the test, but I'm curious as to whether or not someone tried this program or not, In the mean time I will be only using free sources. I'd also like to know if there are any other books, cites, or sources that are extremely helpful or seem so. I'm going to the library tomorrow to look for the "GED" text book.


Thanks for reading and hope to see some informative replies.


----------



## M.Hamada

Hello,

Thank you and sorry to be annoying but even though it is extremely long, I haven't found most of my answers on it. I don't however, expect you to give me any answers at all. I only wanted to state this in order for others to not feel as if I've went off and found what I was searching for, and so they would reply.

Thank you and sorry for being bothersome.


----------



## methionine

Wantd to post this in the big CFAT thread, but it appears to be locked, this thread will likely get merged into the big one.

Pretty simple questions, do all officer positions require a higher score on the CFAT than all NCM trades?

Simple question, thanks.


----------



## jacob_of_canada

Yes sir. Different trades as well.


----------



## Loachman

It's locked because too many people kept asking the same questions again and again and again and again. This one is locked, now, too - for the same reason.


----------



## Xvim

Good day,

  I applied for AESOP a month ago and was wondering if my CFAT is still good?  I did it in 2006 when i went form LCIS to Image tech.

Thanks


----------



## Xvim

Xvim said:
			
		

> Good day,
> 
> I applied for AESOP a month ago and was wondering if my CFAT is still good?  I did it in 2006 when i went form LCIS to Image tech.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## DAA

Xvim said:
			
		

> Good day,
> 
> I applied for AESOP a month ago and was wondering if my CFAT is still good?  I did it in 2006 when i went form LCIS to Image tech.



It all depends on whether or not your previous CFAT scores can be retrieved.  I do believe that CFAT results achieved prior to sometime in 2010, "might" require a rewrite.

I've never been able to get a straight answer on questions like this.  So my advice.....be prepared to re-write it!


----------



## sidemount

Fwiw, when I was in to see the pso for iss. My cfat scores were still being used from 2003.

If they have it on file your cfat will still be good.


----------



## Ningen

Howdy!

I received a letter from the Canadian Forces by e-mail congratulating me that I have passed the CFAT and that I should hear back from them within the next 30 days to continue the process. 30 days passed without hearing anything from them, so I decided to contact the Recruiting Centre in my city to see what's going on. The Recruiting Officer told me on the phone that the Canadian Forces will contact me when the time comes and that there is no average waiting time for such things. It could take weeks, months, or even years.

Years? Come on, I'm twenty-seven years-old and I am not getting any younger. I understand that there are procedures that the Forces must take before enlisting me, also the concept of position availability for what I applied for. I completely understand that. But, it puzzles me, because I applied for 1. Cook, 2. Combat Engineer, and 3. Infantryman. I find it very hard to believe that there are no job openings in any of those.

I haven't done the Medical Assessment, Fitness Test, or interview. I am curious if anybody else has this happen to them? How long did you have to wait? I understand that all individuals differ and so, the processing times differ as well.

Please give me some peace of mind and tell me how long it took you to get to the next step after CFAT?


Cheers,
Ningen


----------



## DAA

Ningen said:
			
		

> Howdy!
> 
> I received a letter from the Canadian Forces by e-mail congratulating me that I have passed the CFAT and that I should hear back from them within the next 30 days to continue the process. 30 days passed without hearing anything from them, so I decided to contact the Recruiting Centre in my city to see what's going on. The Recruiting Officer told me on the phone that the Canadian Forces will contact me when the time comes and that there is no average waiting time for such things. It could take weeks, months, or even years.
> 
> Years? Come on, I'm twenty-seven years-old and I am not getting any younger. I understand that there are procedures that the Forces must take before enlisting me, also the concept of position availability for what I applied for. I completely understand that. But, it puzzles me, because I applied for 1. Cook, 2. Combat Engineer, and 3. Infantryman. I find it very hard to believe that there are no job openings in any of those.
> 
> I haven't done the Medical Assessment, Fitness Test, or interview. I am curious if anybody else has this happen to them? How long did you have to wait? I understand that all individuals differ and so, the processing times differ as well.
> 
> Please give me some peace of mind and tell me how long it took you to get to the next step after CFAT?
> 
> Cheers,
> Ningen



It all depends on how well you did on your CFAT and the CFAT is NOT a pass/fail test.   The aptitude test is used to determine which military occupations are best suited for you.  So all they are saying at this time is "You are currently suitable to apply for your occupation choices."

Now you wait and nobody can give you an accurate time line on how long that may be.


----------



## DnentonSg

I applied for Infantry over a year ago, did my CFAT in April was put "on hold" due to lack of processing and finally did my medical and interview last week, about a full year after applying. Of course your mileage may vary but I doubt it will be super quick. Take advantage of the time to increase your competitive level as an applicant.


----------



## FortYorkRifleman

Ningen said:
			
		

> Howdy!
> 
> I received a letter from the Canadian Forces by e-mail congratulating me that I have passed the CFAT and that I should hear back from them within the next 30 days to continue the process. 30 days passed without hearing anything from them, so I decided to contact the Recruiting Centre in my city to see what's going on. The Recruiting Officer told me on the phone that the Canadian Forces will contact me when the time comes and that there is no average waiting time for such things. It could take weeks, months, or even years.
> 
> Years? Come on, I'm twenty-seven years-old and I am not getting any younger. I understand that there are procedures that the Forces must take before enlisting me, also the concept of position availability for what I applied for. I completely understand that. But, it puzzles me, because I applied for 1. Cook, 2. Combat Engineer, and 3. Infantryman. I find it very hard to believe that there are no job openings in any of those.
> 
> I haven't done the Medical Assessment, Fitness Test, or interview. I am curious if anybody else has this happen to them? How long did you have to wait? I understand that all individuals differ and so, the processing times differ as well.
> 
> Please give me some peace of mind and tell me how long it took you to get to the next step after CFAT?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Ningen



The best thing you can do is keep in contact with your Recruiting Center every two weeks or so. You should go through a thread on this forum titled 'Application Process Samples" to get an idea how long people have waited for progress on their files. If it was meant to be, it will. Use this time to improve your physical fitness, learn the history, rank structure and your desired trade(s) of the Canadian Armed Forces.


----------



## react

Some background info: I have done terrible on the CFAT once and I was expecting to write another CFAT soon but I was called in to the CFRC.

Today I was told by a recruiter that I was going to be given a waiver in 2 weeks to a month. At the time I thought this was a sort of waiting line, but after doing some research on the Internet I am still confused on what exactly a waiver is.


----------



## Captain Mark

A waiver, in this context, is essentially a request submitted on your behalf to retest on the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT). Since you did not meet the standard, from what you are saying, you may be eligible for a retest in three months from your first attempt. If a waiver is being submitted, you must have requested a retest.

I advise that you review the practice tests and revisit grad 10 academic math, as this seems to be the pitfall of many.


----------



## react

Thank you for letting me know


----------



## jaysfan17

I recently found out that I am medically unfit for the Infantry. I have a V4 vision. I am now currently waiting to re-write the aptitude test in hopes of getting into another trade in the Regular force and/or improving the competitiveness of my application should I choose to get lasik eye surgery (I am not competitive enough for Regular force Infantry based off of my CFAT scores).

I last wrote the CFAT when I was 17 and now I'm 20. I understand that we have to wait three months before we can try again, but there is a new protocol that the military is using now, so I'm told. The recruiter said I will be waiting "a long time" before I get the opportunity to re-write, but I don't know what that means. I asked but didn't get a straight answer, so I assume quiet a few months, but that's okay, I understand there are others ahead of me. 

When the time comes, I was told that I will receive a call from the recruiting center asking me what I've done to improve my chances of scoring higher on the CFAT. I've got that part covered. I had taken more complicated math courses in high school and I have taken a University course; and meanwhile I have been doing practice questions based off the sheets that the recruiter gave me.

I was hoping to get a response from someone on this forum who has experienced this before. How long of a wait should I expect?


----------



## mariomike

jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> The recruiter said I will be waiting "a long time" before I get the opportunity to re-write, but I don't know what that means.





			
				jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> How long of a wait should I expect?



In addition to what Recruiting told you, you may wish to check the FAQ:

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0


----------



## methionine

As I understand it, in some places the process has switched where an applicant does the CFAT then is called back for an interview if he/she has done well enough.

I've read people stating that their CFAT scores did not qualify them for their desired trades but that they were given other options during the interview. How does this work if the process in my area is to schedule an interview after the CFAT?

If I don't score high enough for my desired trades will I be offered other trades via email or some other correspondence?

I hope someone understands my question.


----------



## mariomike

You may find an answer in the FAQ:

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.650.html


----------



## DAA

jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> I recently found out that I am medically unfit for the Infantry. I have a V4 vision. I am now currently waiting to re-write the aptitude test in hopes of getting into another trade in the Regular force and/or improving the competitiveness of my application should I choose to get lasik eye surgery (I am not competitive enough for Regular force Infantry based off of my CFAT scores).
> 
> I last wrote the CFAT when I was 17 and now I'm 20. I understand that we have to wait three months before we can try again, but there is a new protocol that the military is using now, so I'm told. The recruiter said I will be waiting "a long time" before I get the opportunity to re-write, but I don't know what that means. I asked but didn't get a straight answer, so I assume quiet a few months, but that's okay, I understand there are others ahead of me.
> 
> When the time comes, I was told that I will receive a call from the recruiting center asking me what I've done to improve my chances of scoring higher on the CFAT. I've got that part covered. I had taken more complicated math courses in high school and I have taken a University course; and meanwhile I have been doing practice questions based off the sheets that the recruiter gave me.
> 
> I was hoping to get a response from someone on this forum who has experienced this before. How long of a wait should I expect?



If you don't fair so well the first time around, you can request a "re-write" of the CFAT, 3 months after taking the test the first time.  You will have to demonstrate what you have done to be better prepared the 2nd time around.  They "might" want a simple letter outlining basically what you have stated above.  Waiting time for approval to re-write can range anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months.  It all depends on your CFRC.


----------



## DAA

methionine said:
			
		

> As I understand it, in some places the process has switched where an applicant does the CFAT then is called back for an interview if he/she has done well enough.
> 
> I've read people stating that their CFAT scores did not qualify them for their desired trades but that they were given other options during the interview. How does this work if the process in my area is to schedule an interview after the CFAT?
> 
> If I don't score high enough for my desired trades will I be offered other trades via email or some other correspondence?
> 
> I hope someone understands my question.



If your CFAT Score is not suitable for your occupation choices, you will be advised accordingly and during the counselling process, you will be advised on which occupations you are suitable for.


----------



## jaysfan17

Thanks, I appreciate it.


----------



## Reserve6

Upon completing the CFAT I was advised that I did not meet the requirements for my trade choice #1. However I met the "standard" for trade choice #2. The recruiter did allow me to rewrite the CFAT to give me the option to attempt another shot at my first choice trade. I declined and opted in for my second trade choice. That was my experiences with the entire CFAT.


----------



## Young416

Hi there,

I'm just wondering, do anyone know the scores that are required when you do the CFAT to obtain a position of: Infantry Soldier, Cook, Artillery crew.  

Let me know 

Thank you


----------



## Loachman

What difference does it make?

Stop obsessing about this before it drives you nuts.

If you stress yourself out or overthink it, you will likely do less well than you should.

Stop asking the same questions over and over before it drives us nuts.

There is a ton of information on this Site about CFAT and almost everything else. Read it before asking questions.

Are you going to do this at every step?

Relax. Enjoy life.

And good luck.

I have merged all of your previous CFAT questions - that you have been asking for over a year - into this thread.


----------



## jaysfan17

I just got back from the recruiting center and I dropped off both my University transcripts and HS transcripts in hopes of re-writing my aptitude test. The recruiter there told me the wait will be 2-6 months which is not too bad.

Thanks again.


----------



## DAA

jaysfan17 said:
			
		

> I just got back from the recruiting center and I dropped off both my University transcripts and HS transcripts in hopes of re-writing my aptitude test. The recruiter there told me the wait will be 2-6 months which is not too bad.
> 
> Thanks again.



It all depends on how "quickly" they wish to process the re-write.  About all you can do at the moment, is sit tight and wait for them to call you.  But give them a call every 30-45 days, just to check in.


----------



## Deleted member 84189

So, yay, I made it in the Forces! As a reserve navcomm.

Not saying that's a bad career option, don't get me wrong, it's just not what I wish to see myself into for the long term.

Problem is, I contacted my recruiter to see what other MOCs I was qualified for and... the answer was "one;bos'un." :l

My question is, even though I did pass the CFAT, is it possible to take it again to score higher?

Also, is my limited choice due only to my CFAT score or can it also have to do with the fact that I do not yet have my High School diploma?

(I did search through the forums for answers to my questions but couldn't find what I looked for. Sorry if it has already been answered, feel free to delete my post and direct me to the proper thread if necessary)


----------



## PuckChaser

You did apply to a reserve unit so likely you were only given the trades that you qualified for at that unit. I find it hard to believe that you would qualify for only NavComm or Bosun, seems that may be your only options for trades with spaces open.


----------



## Deleted member 84189

So if I ask my regional regfor recruiter, he should be able to point me to a broader spectrum of trades available to me?


----------



## George Wallace

7Isleblue said:
			
		

> So if I ask my regional regfor recruiter, he should be able to point me to a broader spectrum of trades available to me?



No.  As a Reservist, you will be restricted to the Trades that are offered in the unit you belong to.  You say you are a Naval Reservist, so you will be restricted to whatever Trades that Naval Reserve unit employs.


----------



## Deleted member 84189

Interesting. 

But still, is it possible to take the CFAT again even if I passed it?


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

Not really, unless you quit the Forces and try coming back in in a few years.

The posts below are correct: When you elect to join a reserve unit (of any type), you will be restricted in the trades you chose by, first the type of unit - it will have a specific subset of CF trades required for its type and not the others; and second by whichever one of those trades happens to have openings in their ranks at that unit at that particular moment.

I suspect that is what limited you to Navcom or Bosn only because if you qualify for Navcom, I know at least three other Naval reserve trades other than Bosn for which you would qualify.

If you wish for a broader choice, however, you can always go to your locality's closest recruiting centre and consult with the recruiters there and see if something that interest you more is available at another type (for example a reserve infantry unit) of local reserve unit then see about the possibility of VOT and transfer.


----------



## Deleted member 84189

Thanks! That answers my questions.


----------



## DAA

7Isleblue said:
			
		

> So, yay, I made it in the Forces! As a reserve navcomm.



So you have already been "enrolled" into the CF?


----------



## FortYorkRifleman

7Isleblue said:
			
		

> So, yay, I made it in the Forces! As a reserve navcomm.
> 
> Not saying that's a bad career option, don't get me wrong, it's just not what I wish to see myself into for the long term.
> 
> Problem is, I contacted my recruiter to see what other MOCs I was qualified for and... the answer was "one;bos'un." :l
> 
> My question is, even though I did pass the CFAT, is it possible to take it again to score higher?
> 
> Also, is my limited choice due only to my CFAT score or can it also have to do with the fact that I do not yet have my High School diploma?
> 
> (I did search through the forums for answers to my questions but couldn't find what I looked for. Sorry if it has already been answered, feel free to delete my post and direct me to the proper thread if necessary)



Can you clarify whether or not you have enrolled or not? If you have you'd have to request a transfer to another trade


----------



## Deleted member 84189

7Isleblue said:
			
		

> I made it in the Forces!



I don't believe there's any ambiguity, here


----------



## FortYorkRifleman

7Isleblue said:
			
		

> I don't believe there's any ambiguity, here



I'd leave this up to DAA and his ilk but I think you need a transfer if you want to get into another trade. Look up "Occupational Transfer" on this forum and it'll give you an idea what you can do, how long to wait etc.


----------



## DAA

7Isleblue said:
			
		

> I don't believe there's any ambiguity, here



In that case and to answer your question, the only way you can rewrite the CFAT now, is if you decide to transfer into another Res F occupation which is available within the NAVRES, for which you didn't originally qualify for and only if they are willing to process your request.  The only other option available is to try and request a CT to the Reg F.

You probably did qualify for other occupations, just not occupations which are available with NAVRES.


----------



## Ajacied34

Hello, I recently took the CFAT today and didn't fare as well as I had hoped. Nonetheless I will be pursuing a retake of the CFAT at the earliest possible time after the 3 month wait.

My initial question is: Is there a variation in the required CFAT scores among the different trades of officers? IE Armour Officer, Infantry, Legal etc? I was denied as a Reserve Force Arty Officer but my real goal is to eventually become an Infantry Officer in the regular force*. (see note at the bottom)

This leads me to a second question.. I was also offered a placement as a NCM, given that I complete/Show intent on completing university and retake the CFAT could I file back into the officer stream after getting the sufficient grade? This would allow me to complete BMQ this summer and still be on track should I be granted this opportunity. In addition this will give me some extra experience as a NCM which from my perspective could only benefit me.


 *(I'm currently in University right now and I told my recruiter this as the unit in my area is an artillery regiment, he seemed to have no problem my aspiration and said I could transfer between trades if spots became available)


----------



## Loachman

Try reading through http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

I'll be merging this thread with it once the Recruiters have replied.


----------



## Master Corporal Steven

Good day Ajacied34,

You would have been informed of the occupations you qualified for from the recruiter conducting your interview after you wrote the CFAT. I have copied and pasted the read first post that you did not read prior to the submission of your question on this form.  

Welcome to the “Ask a CAF Recruiter” section. The members tagged as “CAF Recruiter” are official Canadian Armed Forces recruiters. They will identify themselves with their rank, first name and the Forces.ca avatar. In order to best answer questions, there are some rules that need to be adhered to.

This section is for persons who have questions about joining the Canadian Armed Forces, occupations, different enrolment programs, and prerequisites. Much of the information can be found at Forces.ca, or the Recruiting FAQ and wiki section of this site. Before you ask a question, you should be searching the forum or the Forces.ca website for these answers.

We will not answer questions about technical difficulties with the application process, or the website. We will not answer questions about difficulties contacting your recruiting centre or *general inquires with regards to your current application or file.* These questions can be asked here: http://forces.ca/en/page/contactus-73


----------



## Antoine4554

Hi, I'm preparing to do my cfat and was wondering what resources you guys used? I read there is a site ******** that has stuff to study and practice tests but i wanted to check if anyone has tried it. Any suggestions??
Cheers


----------



## Antoine4554

I'm about to write my CFAT. I heard it is challenging and that i need to study for a few months. My recruiter pointed me to ********. I think i'm going to sign up as they seem to have study guides and a lot of practice exams. Will report back.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Antoine4554 said:
			
		

> Hi, I'm preparing to do my cfat and was wondering what resources you guys used? I read there is a site ********** that has stuff to study and practice tests but i wanted to check if anyone has tried it. Any suggestions??
> Cheers



You about done advertising your site? Coming here, masquerading, is not the way to get started on this site.

---Staff---


----------



## Soldier2112

Good Day,

I recently wrote the CFAT. While my results were obviously not disclosed, I was told along with a group of other applicants that we had all written successfully. I am going the DEO route, while most of the others were NCM types. I am trying to interpret this feedback and what it means for my candidacy for my desired occupation. Does this mean my results were sufficient to qualify for the officer occupation or could it just mean that I did well enough to get into the Forces overall? Would they have told me immediately if I didn't score well enough for my desired occupation?

Thank you


----------



## Master Corporal Steven

Good day Soldier2112,

Welcome to the “Ask a CAF Recruiter” section. The members tagged as “CAF Recruiter” are official Canadian Armed Forces recruiters. They will identify themselves with their rank, first name and the Forces.ca avatar. In order to best answer questions, there are some rules that need to be adhered to.

This section is for persons who have questions about joining the Canadian Armed Forces, occupations, different enrolment programs, and prerequisites. Much of the information can be found at Forces.ca, or the Recruiting FAQ and wiki section of this site. Before you ask a question, you should be searching the forum or the Forces.ca website for these answers.

*We will not answer questions about technical difficulties with the application process, or the website. We will not answer questions about difficulties contacting your recruiting centre or general inquires with regards to your current application or file. These questions can be asked here: http://forces.ca/en/page/contactus-73*


----------



## Soldier2112

Good Day,

I recently wrote the CFAT. While my results were obviously not disclosed, I was told along with a group of other applicants that we had all written successfully. I am going the DEO route, while most of the others were NCM types. I am trying to interpret this feedback and what it means for my candidacy for my desired occupation. Does this mean my results were sufficient to qualify for the officer occupation or could it just mean that I did well enough to get into the Forces overall? Would they have told me immediately if I didn't score well enough for my desired occupation?

Thank you


----------



## Loachman

And ANOTHER merge.

FFS, people - once CFAT is replaced by assessing one's ability to read, understand, and follow simple direction given during the Army.ca registration process, read, understand, and follow stickied threads with "READ FIRST" and such in the titles, read and understand older threads, and use the Search Function, admission into the CF is going to plummet.


----------



## Eric Wang

Hi Everyone, 
         After Google search/browsing Army.ca I couldn't find my answer to this question, some people based on my research said the CFAT is quite difficult, while others said it is quite easy. I know CFAT is to determine whether you are suitable for the trades you selected. I know my verbal skill (Synonyms and Antonyms) suck, I did some verbal aptitude test online, out of 20 questions, I scored 12 out of 20 (Medium Level Test) which is pretty bad. My current education level is grade 10 actually going into grade 10 in September, currently 14 turning 15 in July. I am very good at Math/Spatial, did some aptitude test (Fraction, decimal Because CFAT have fraction/decimal questions) Out of 28 questions I scored 26/28 cause its all fractions/decimal pretty easy for me, Spatial also pretty easy out of 10 questions I score 9 out of 10. I am planning to join CF naval reserve next year as; naval combat information Operator for my first choice, Naval Communicator for my second choice, Boatswain for my third choice. If I do bad on verbal section but did pretty good on Spatial/Math can I make it into NCIO trade, Boatswain, and NC or Recruitment Center will offer me another trade. I hope someone can give me a good explanation about enrollment, and what I need to work on to do good on verbal section of CFAT. Thank you and have a nice day                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                  ~ Eric


----------



## Mosullivan15

Hello Internet,

I'm applying to join the reserves,specifcally The Queen's Own Rifles in Toronto. Today I got a call giving me a date and time in which I was schedualed to write the test, but not a location. Is there a location where everyone in Toronto writes the test? Do I go to the armoury of the battalion I'm applying to? 

Thank you so much for your time.


----------



## faivious

It should be at 4900 Yonge St (Yonge & Sheppherd) Canadian Forces Recruitment Centre.

Call your recruiter to verify location & time.


----------



## Philip1163

So I failed my CFAT and really am trying to pass it. What topics on Khan academy should I focus on? There are a ton of them but don't know which ones to focus on that would be on the CFAT. Thank you for your help


----------



## biernini

Which trades have the highest CFAT minimum scores for eligibility?


----------



## Ayrsayle

Philip1163 said:
			
		

> So I failed my CFAT and really am trying to pass it. What topics on Khan academy should I focus on? There are a ton of them but don't know which ones to focus on that would be on the CFAT. Thank you for your help



Then you've already seen what the CFAT consists of and likely what you found difficult.  There is no "secret" to success - and you already know the ground you'll be tested on next time.  Why not start there?


----------



## Philip1163

What units should I cover on Khan academy to be ready?


----------



## George Wallace

Philip1163 said:
			
		

> What units should I cover on Khan academy to be ready?



What units did you fail on the CFAT?


----------



## Philip1163

I failed for the problem solving part and they said I should also work on my vocab


----------



## Kat Stevens

You just answered your own question.


----------



## Philip1163

But there are a ton of units and I don't know which one to focus on


----------



## biernini

My CFAT score was "banging" according to my recruiter so I'm wondering which trades have the highest CFAT cut-offs for eligibility.  It might make me re-consider my trade choice thusfar.


----------



## Warrant Officer Robert

biernini said:
			
		

> My CFAT score was "banging" according to my recruiter so I'm wondering which trades have the highest CFAT cut-offs for eligibility.  It might make me re-consider my trade choice thusfar.



Please see the READ FIRST posting in our Ask a CAF Recruiter forum --->   http://army.ca/forums/threads/115341.0.html   (We will not answer questions about difficulties contacting your recruiting centre or *general inquires with regards to your current application or file.*)

Topic moved and available for open discussion.


----------



## TryingToReturn76

Hello everyone.  I am very confused and feel like i am getting the runaround with this topic.  I was in the military in 2006-2008 and got out for personal reasons.  Now i want to rejoin got everything cleared except now they say i have to take this stupid CFAT test again when i did it once and i want to go back into my same trade.  Is there anyone that would be able to assist me with this.


----------



## Warrant Officer Robert

Please see the READ FIRST posting in our Ask a CAF Recruiter forum --->   http://army.ca/forums/threads/115341.0.html   (We will not answer questions about difficulties contacting your recruiting centre or general inquires with regards to your current application or file.)

Topic moved and available for open discussion.


----------



## DAA

TryingToReturn76 said:
			
		

> Hello everyone.  I am very confused and feel like i am getting the runaround with this topic.  I was in the military in 2006-2008 and got out for personal reasons.  Now i want to rejoin got everything cleared except now they say i have to take this stupid CFAT test again when i did it once and i want to go back into my same trade.  Is there anyone that would be able to assist me with this.



There are several reasons why someone would need to rewrite the CFAT.  They couldn't find your previous test scores, the test scores available were not transferrable over to the current scoring matrix, your test scores did not meet the required level for continued processing or your test scores did not meet the required level to qualify you for your previous occupation.

Ask your CFRC, they should be able to give you an answer!


----------



## prospective_servicemen

Last week I wrote the CFAT and was found to be just below the standard score for the Officer trades that I wanted (Aerospace Control, Signals and Intelligence). I was told that I was ineligible for Signals as it requires a computer science/ physics degree while I possess a bachelor od science in forensic science. Intelligence is closed at the moment. I was thinking to re-write but the thing is I possess red green colour deficiency and I am pretty sure I would be disqualified for Aerospace control with this condition. However I qualified for many NCM trades, some of which I am interested in (Avionics Systems Tech, Weapons Tech - Land and Aircraft Structures Tech ). I am wondering if I should wait three months to rewrite the CFAT or just go with one of the NCM trades that interest me. Thank you for your input.


----------



## Lumber

This thread is for quesitons that can be directed directly to an actual CF recruiter (or someone with experience as a CF recruiter).

Your question is more of an opinion question, so I would find a more appropriate thread and ask there.

Cheers!


Yes! I did it right, finally!


----------



## Warrant Officer Robert

Please see the READ FIRST posting in our Ask a CAF Recruiter forum --->   http://army.ca/forums/threads/115341.0.html   (We will not answer questions about difficulties contacting your recruiting centre or general inquires with regards to your current application or file.)

Topic moved and available for open discussion.


----------



## mariomike

prospective_servicemen said:
			
		

> I am wondering if I should wait three months to rewrite the CFAT or just go with one of the NCM trades that interest me.



You may find some answers and opinions here,

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0


----------



## mariomike

TryingToReturn76 said:
			
		

> Now i want to rejoin got everything cleared except now they say i have to take this stupid CFAT test again when i did it once and i want to go back into my same trade.



TryingToReturn76:

To add to the above advice, to contact Recruiting, you may find these discussions of interest,

Getting Back In/Re-enrolling Mega Thread  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/294.475

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0


----------



## Philip1163

Is it on the test?


----------



## Pwegman

Almost all questions you can ask yourself about CFAT  can be find there : http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html 
good reading .


----------



## mariomike

Pwegman said:
			
		

> Almost all questions you can ask yourself about CFAT  can be find there : http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html



For math specific questions, you can also check,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+rmc+good+enough&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=ovLhVcS6A-vE8gePgLvoDw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+math


----------



## Nathan Morse

Hello everyone. I've been having some problems with the process. I haven't been able to get a hold of my previous school to obtain a transcript.  It is currently to late to reschedule the CFAT or acquire my transcript. I'm just wondering bad it will make me look if I go to the appointment without all the necessary paperwork and how long I may have to wait for another appointment. I feel quite SOL at the moment.


----------



## ModlrMike

http://www.purplemath.com/
http://www.math.com/homeworkhelp/EverydayMath.html
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/test-examen/gct1-ecg1/q-index-eng.php
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/ppc-cpp/test-examen/grt-erd/q-index-eng.php
http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/psychotests.htm

Unless you meant this, in which case no.


----------



## Thomdrils

Well, I think you know exactly how it will look. Like someone that is not prepared, I can't really give you a time frame for when you will get another appointment, depends on the available scheduling. Make sure you don't waste anytime on getting on top of your paper work, their not interested in hearing excuses, just do what you need to do to have everything that is required. 

Best of luck.


----------



## Eric Wang

Hi, I did browse the CFAT FAQ thread and found many sites that people have shared, but they are very old from 2003 and many of them don't even work anymore. Can someone please give me a site to study my verbal? I would appreciate your help


----------



## George Wallace

I am Canadian said:
			
		

> Hi, I did browse the CFAT FAQ thread and found many sites that people have shared, but they are very old from 2003 and many of them don't even work anymore. Can someone please give me a site to study my verbal? I would appreciate your help




Seriously.  If you found some, the tests are all very similar.  If the links don't work, but you know what you are looking for, then use Google and see where you can find similar and more up to date sites.  

That is what you are asking someone else here to do for you.  You want them to use their "INITIATIVE" to find links for you.  Probably not the best way to apply for a profession that expects its members to show initiative on their own.


----------



## Eric Wang

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Seriously.  If you found some, the tests are all very similar.  If the links don't work, but you know what you are looking for, then use Google and see where you can find similar and more up to date sites.
> 
> That is what you are asking someone else here to do for you.  You want them to use their "INITIATIVE" to find links for you.  Probably not the best way to apply for a profession that expects its members to show initiative on their own.



I did find few Verbal IQ test, but I finished them all and passed. Some tests even requires payment. Like eCFAT which I need to spend a lot of money in order to continue. I know I can google them, which I did manage to find some, but I'm asking this question to get an answer if there are more sites that I don't know yet to practice.


----------



## dbrks88

When I went to write my test one of the guys didn't have the proper transcript. He had a printed out copy not the legit colorful one. They still let him write the test and told him he needs to get the proper paperwork and send it to them.


----------



## messupdude

You may write the CFAT without your transcript however it will cause major delays down the road if you don't submit it ASAP. They can't submit incomplete paperwork to head quarters. The CFAT just gives you results on possible trade outcomes that you have picked. Your transcript just tells them if you dropped out of high school or have supplementary training for your trade.


----------



## MrFoolD

I applied about 8 years ago but failed the aptitude test twice, now i have applied again i am currently in college but not sure if i will finish, i did mention my college course in the new application. They told me they have to get a weaver so i can do the test again this might takes months until i get an answer if i will be able to take the test again anyone in the same situation or was in the same situation? how strict are they and how long did you wait?


----------



## mariomike

MrFoolD said:
			
		

> I applied about 8 years ago but failed the aptitude test twice, now i have applied again i am currently in college but not sure if i will finish, i did mention my college course in the new application. They told me they have to get a weaver so i can do the test again this might takes months until i get an answer if i will be able to take the test again anyone in the same situation or was in the same situation? how strict are they and how long did you wait?



Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0

"You will only be allowed to write the test a third time if you provide proof that you are registered in a college or university program, and that you are passing courses without difficulty."
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100

Perhaps this discussion will be moved to the Recruiting forum.


----------



## yayotheo

Like the title says i was wondering how long have u waited for the cfat results i did my cfat in montreal on october 21 and they said 5 buisness days and i still didnt get the results


----------



## Lumber

yayotheo said:
			
		

> Like the title says i was wondering how long have u waited for the cfat results i did my cfat in montreal on october 21 and they said 5 buisness days and i still didnt get the results



I have the results. You did poorly in writing. Sorry.


----------



## yayotheo

I forgot to press check spelling sorry and English is not my main language


----------



## jaysfan17

The other day I wrote my CFAT and there was another guy who they sent home because he didn't study and he claimed he didn't have a birth certificate (they later found a photocopied version, but still sent him home). His Transcripts were MIA as well. 

He came and sat next to me and I asked him what trade he was going into and he couldn't remember which trade he picked. He was an idiot. I wouldn't trust him with an unloaded rifle.


----------



## Danzershrek14

So i had a big talk with my recruiter (Hamilton) and he said since i am still in grade 12 but am on the road to graduating in 2016 that the best time for me to apply would be in march or april. He told me that the main thing i should focus on is doing good on the CFAT and we talked about the main things on it Spacial, Verbal and Problem solving.. the thing is ive never been that great at math i think ive got an average throughout highschool of 56% in math and i am taking it for a 4th time this semester just cause but i was wondering about a tutor who could help refresh me with math that would help me on the test. Ive read all over that most of the math is a grade 10 level of math and of course that was the year i had a very unqualified teacher for math (He taught me Religion, Geography and business) so i learned basically nothing from that year as far as math goes but back to the subject if i were to get a tutor what sort of things could we build skills off of example books, practice test etc.. Have wanted to join the infantry since i was a young kid and i couldnt imagine doing anything else. Thanks


----------



## mariomike

Danzershrek14 said:
			
		

> the thing is ive never been that great at math i think ive got an average throughout highschool of 56% in math and i am taking it for a 4th time this semester just cause but i was wondering about a tutor who could help refresh me with math that would help me on the test. Ive read all over that most of the math is a grade 10 level of math and of course that was the year i had a very unqualified teacher for math (He taught me Religion, Geography and business) so i learned basically nothing from that year as far as math goes but back to the subject if i were to get a tutor what sort of things could we build skills off of example books, practice test etc.



This may help,

?MATH?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/109763.0

"what type of math is on the aptitude test?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106898.0

"Math questions on the test":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30895.0/nowap.html

"CFAT Math Problem Solving":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91357.0

"Not the best at math..":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107441.0

"CFAT Math + other question":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/80466.0

"How does one 'relearn' math?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26449.0

"I suck at math (CFAT worries)":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/65081.0

"If you need help in Math for the CFAT":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60947.0/nowap.html

CFAT Math
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+math&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=UKw7VojXDcKC8QeF4afwCg&gws_rd=ssl



			
				Danzershrek14 said:
			
		

> Have wanted to join the infantry since i was a young kid and i couldnt imagine doing anything else.



See also,

CFAT infantry score 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/110464.0
"I am just wondering what score you would need to be able to get into infantry. I am confident I could pass the verbal and spatial easily, however math would be a bit more rough."

"And one more thing im very bad at math?? will that have a lot to do with passing for Infantry Soldier which is what i really wanna do!!"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-212708/topicseen.html#msg212708


----------



## sappermcfly

Here is a pdf of an official practice test

http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf


----------



## dbrks88

So back in June I wrote my CFAT. Unfortunately I didn't do so well and decided to rewrite. I waited the three months and called them back in September. They said they put my file in a rewrite drawer. Sounded promising lol. October 23rd I receive an email from a Captain saying he is reviewing my rewrite application and asked me to describe what studying I have done to better my chances for my second try. Told me to list material, hours logged etc, and to also email the other Captain that he CC'd in the email. So I emailed them both back stating everything. It is now November 9th and I have not received an email back. I know things take time and everyone is different but I was wondering if anyone has been through this process and just curious how long it took for your rewrite after your three months were up. 

I really wish I didn't screw up the first time this has set my whole process back so many months, If I could kick myself in the ass I would.


----------



## mariomike

dbrks88 said:
			
		

> just curious how long it took for your rewrite after your three months were up.



This may help,

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0


----------



## yayotheo

Theres a book called practice the cf at look on Google u can get it for 6$ on Google play i know you can get it on other sites just check the prices


----------



## DAA

dbrks88 said:
			
		

> I know things take time and everyone is different but I was wondering if anyone has been through this process and just curious how long it took for your rewrite after your three months were up.



To rewrite the CFAT requires a "waiver".  The information that you provided regarding your previous study activities, will be used to form the basis for requesting the waiver.   It can take anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months to obtain approval.   Just stay in contact with your CFRC every 30-45 days and KEEP studying!!!


----------



## Izzy

Hey Guys and Gals
So, I had completed my aptitude test and was offered some jobs, none of which I wanted or had chosen as my future, so I asked them what can I do to obtain and be apart of the trades I wanted, they told me I need better Mathematical skills.
so the Capitan that sat me down said I can take some time and upgrade my math skill-set to re try the exam, I was thrilled when I heard this, but was at a lack of knowhow as to what types of mathematics I should be learning into.
I was going to look into a tutor and thought that might be a bright idea, but thinking the cost is pricey, so doing it on my own might be best, but should I be looking for "aptitude math" or what ? what within math itself should I be studying.

when I broke it down for myself I found that the aptitude math part was mostly random math questions, but found myself stuck on some mathematic word problems.

any and all direction is welcome.


----------



## mariomike

Izzy said:
			
		

> they told me I need better Mathematical skills.
> upgrade my math skill-set
> what types of mathematics I should be learning into.
> should I be looking for "aptitude math" or what ?
> what within math itself should I be studying.
> the aptitude math part was mostly random math questions, but found myself stuck on some mathematic word problems.
> 
> any and all direction is welcome.



This may help,

"what type of math is on the aptitude test?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106898.0

"Math questions on the test":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30895.0/nowap.html

"CFAT Math Problem Solving":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91357.0

"Not the best at math..":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107441.0

"CFAT Math + other question":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/80466.0

"How does one 'relearn' math?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26449.0

"I suck at math (CFAT worries)":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/65081.0

"If you need help in Math for the CFAT":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60947.0/nowap.html

?MATH?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/109763.0

CFAT Math
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+math&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=UKw7VojXDcKC8QeF4afwCg&gws_rd=ssl


----------



## Izzy

Thank you for posting, I will promptly look this all over.


----------



## mariomike

Izzy said:
			
		

> Thank you for posting, I will promptly look this all over.



You are welcome. Good luck.


----------



## Izzy

So I seriously went through all those reference's and found alot , and i mean alot. of helpful aspects of where to start and what to hone in on, I think you set me on the right track, only 1 thing has me kinda bugged is this ,

" I'm sure that you felt more confident having done some GED review work, but I am also quite confident having been involved in development of a number of test currently in CF service (aptitude, knowledge, proficiency), that there is an extremely low statistical likelihood that "studying" for a CF aptitude type test will yield a quantifiable and demonstrable difference from not having "studied" for the test."

By this statement, doe the gentlemen kinda refer to, either knowing what you need to know, or just not enough to pass?

so im thinking that I should just do a ton of grade 10-12 math quizzes and problems on the internet and do that for maybe a few weeks then email the CAF recruitment office and let them know thats what iv done to brush up, maybe sit at home with my books and read over math problems.

I just don't want to waste my second try. I pretty much just want to bang it out this second time. smile and move on with this process.!


----------



## redbaron

Hello,

In the email it says to bring diploma if applicable. I'm assuming they are referring to high school diploma. Do you still need to bring a high school Diploma if you are bringing university transcripts?


----------



## Sk94

edit - nvm


----------



## ashley732

Hello so bit of back story I did my cfat and all though I didn't score well enough for all my trade choices I did score well enough for 1 of them and that is the trade I most wanted so I'm happy with it. My question is would I be able to request to redo my cfat not to change my trade choice but just to improve my score for my own personal improvement? I'm waiting on my interview and medical would it set me back in my application? 

Thank you


----------



## da1root

Good Day,

Please read:  READ FIRST (http://navy.ca/forums/threads/115341.0.html) that is a "STICKIED POST" near the top of this forum the "Ask a CAF Recruiter" forum.

Rewritting the CFAT is covered several times on this Forum, please take the time to read those threads.  Here is just one of many: http://navy.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-1399554.html#msg1399554.


----------



## reaman

I wrote my aptitude test just over a week ago. To be qualified for Officer positions, you must meet the minimum cut-off score, which is the 30th percentile of your total score. They couldn't disclose specific results with me but they said I passed with excellent marks  I truly believe that I flunked the vocabulary part but the mathematics and spatial sections are what saved me! I am by no means a math genius. I don't know many ways to help with vocab but with math, do try downloading the app "Aptitude Test Trainer". I did have to pay about $3 for full access. The app consisted of MANY similar math and spatial questions that I had on the cfat! Hope this helps!


----------



## Lumber

rayyy said:
			
		

> I wrote my aptitude test just over a week ago. To be qualified for Officer positions, you must meet the minimum cut-off score, which is the 30th percentile of your total score. They couldn't disclose specific results with me but they said I passed with excellent marks  I truly believe that I flunked the vocabulary part but the mathematics and spatial sections are what saved me! I am by no means a math genius. I don't know many ways to help with vocab but with math, do try downloading the app "Aptitude Test Trainer". I did have to pay about $3 for full access. The app consisted of MANY similar math and spatial questions that I had on the cfat! Hope this helps!



$3 to help you get accepted into a career that within roughly 4 years will have you making over $50k a year? Seems like a sweet deal.


----------



## Loachman

Merged and stickied.

Thanks again, mariomike.


----------



## GunnerBohatz

Hi,

I am currently a university student on my journey to obtaining my Bachelor of Arts degree.
I have a high interest in being an Officer in the CF so I chose to apply as an Officer Cadet through RESO with a local Reserve unit.
However, when I wrote the CFAT, I didn't meet officer requirements and made my mind to go the NCM route.
Though I am doing this, do I still have a chance being an Officer without rewriting the CFAT in order to qualify whilst obtaining a university degree?

Btw, my long term possibility is a component transfer in reg force (maybe) but I'd like to be an officer in the reserves first!
Thanks


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, GunnerBohatz.

There is much discussion about this here already. Please take the time to explore older threads on this Site and try the Search Function. This saves others' valuable time repeating earlier answers, saves DS the effort of merging threads of repetitive questions and answers, saves new people the effort of wading through them, and rewards you by providing answers to other questions before you even think of them.

In this case, we have 33 pages regarding CFAT at http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html.

Short answer: If you didn't meet the requirements then, you still don't until you rewrite successfully.

I shall merge this thread into the afore-mentioned one shortly.


----------



## DAA

GunnerBohatz said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I am currently a university student on my journey to obtaining my Bachelor of Arts degree.
> I have a high interest in being an Officer in the CF so I chose to apply as an Officer Cadet through RESO with a local Reserve unit.
> However, when I wrote the CFAT, I didn't meet officer requirements and made my mind to go the NCM route.
> Though I am doing this, do I still have a chance being an Officer without rewriting the CFAT in order to qualify whilst obtaining a university degree?
> 
> Btw, my long term possibility is a component transfer in reg force (maybe) but I'd like to be an officer in the reserves first!
> Thanks



NO and not for the occupation which you originally applied, unless the CFAT requirements are lowered at some point in the future, which is highly unlikely as they tend to go in the other direction (ie; up).

If your CFAT didn't qualify you for your chosen Officer Occupation in the Primary Reserve, chances are, it won't qualify you for the same Officer occupation in the Regular Force either.  If you wish to pursue a career as an Officer in the CF, you will most likely have to undergo a rewrite.


----------



## Mike81

Hello Good Day Everyone Some Useful Tips For Studying For The CFAT Are A App For Your Phone Called CFAT Test Trainer And Can Be Purchased For Like $4.99 I Got It And Has Helped Me Greatly To Study For The CFAT, As Well There Is A PDF File That Can Be Found Online Called Pass The CFAT, I Have Downloaded The File And Its 71 Pages Of Study Material On Verbal Skills, Problem Solving & Spatial Ability If You PM Me Your Email I Can Send This File To You As Study Material To Help You Prepare And I am Asking For Nothing In Return Just Simply To Help Those How Might Need It..

Thanks..

Mike


----------



## CanuckMarksman

Hey,

a lot of people stress over the CFAT, and I know a two helpful resources that I used to study.

For math, 

www.khanacademy.org it's free, and has lessons ranging from grade 4 to grade 12 math. 

For all 3 components, there's a $5 app for Iphone/Android called CFAT Trainer. 

The CFAT's based off the minimum educational requirement, a Grade 10 education.

good luck!


----------



## George Wallace

We have a very long topic on CFAT Study Tips.


YOUR GOOGLE FU is really bad.  This is the second topic you started on something we have many pages of information on.


----------



## CanuckMarksman

George Wallace said:
			
		

> We have a very long topic on CFAT Study Tips.
> 
> 
> YOUR GOOGLE FU is really bad.  This is the second topic you started on something we have many pages of information on.



By your logic, this entire website is obsolete, thanks to google.

I suppose every person who's seeking advice, or answers should just browse through every page in whichever forum, rather than ask someone, which in turn defeats the purpose of forums.

I guess i'm just one of those guys who prefers to make myself useful lol


----------



## Loachman

Good Morning, CanuckMarksman

I would like to gently point out to you that this Site is run by serving and formerly-serving members of the CF. We tend to have, therefore, the same basic philosophy, and the same expectations of Site members.

That includes doing your own homework. There is a ton of information here. If you are not interested or motivated enough to spend some time and effort looking for it, why should anybody else waste their own precious time doing your work for you? Providing identical responses to identical questions over, and over, and over again becomes tiresome. We are not inclined to spoonfeed people.

So, yes, "BINGO!!", we do expect that "every person who's seeking advice, or answers should just browse through every page in whichever forum, rather than ask someone". Should you, after an honest effort, not be able to find an answer, then some kindly member - maybe even George Wallace himself - will gladly help you. Expect, however, that that assistance may well come in the form of a link to a thread or specific post already on this Site.

Should you be accepted into the CF, please do not hesitate to respond to your Course DS (Directing Staff) as you have just responded to one of your Site DS. This will provide much mirth to your fellow course members.

You can begin to adjust your attitude here and now, the easy way, or later, with some loud, lengthy, and eloquent commentary and suggestions later in St-Jean. Your choice.

While we appreciate your desire to be helpful, what you have actually done, by duplicating information already here, is add clutter. This is the reason why some of the threads, like the one with which I am merging this one, are so lengthy.


----------



## Mike81

Hello good day I wrote the CFAT yesterday and there is some things on how the test is given on the computer that people should be aware of, its done on a computer, each section is timed for example the math questions there are 30 questions and you are given 30 minutes to do this portion which means your given a minute per question and once you select your answer you cannot go back unless you complete the questions and still have time remaining to go back and review. I don't agree with this test being done on a computer and how much time is given on the test for each section of the test and you are not allowed to use a calculator at all they give you two small pieces of paper to do your calculations on, when I wrote my 1st year millwright provincial exam they at least let you use a calculator. They say it takes 1.5 to 2hrs to complete but really it took me 1 hour with how the questions are timed. The Grammar portion of the test there are words that are on this test I have never even seen before, the math is different as well and I studied for a month for this test using all what I could find to help me all I can say is make sure you study up on your math this will help you greatly to pass.


----------



## Scarlett

Mike81 said:
			
		

> Hello good day I wrote the CFAT yesterday and there is some things on how the test is given on the computer that people should be aware of, its done on a computer, each section is timed for example the math questions there are 30 questions and you are given 30 minutes to do this portion which means your given a minute per question and once you select your answer you cannot go back unless you complete the questions and still have time remaining to go back and review. I don't agree with this test being done on a computer and how much time is given on the test for each section of the test and you are not allowed to use a calculator at all they give you two small pieces of paper to do your calculations on, when I wrote my 1st year millwright provincial exam they at least let you use a calculator. They say it takes 1.5 to 2hrs to complete but really it took me 1 hour with how the questions are timed. The Grammar portion of the test there are words that are on this test I have never even seen before, the math is different as well and I studied for a month for this test using all what I could find to help me all I can say is make sure you study up on your math this will help you greatly to pass.



This shouldn't be news for anyone. If you've read through all of the information that has been provided on the CFAT threads here than there is no reason any of this should come as a surprise. That some may find it difficult, even after studying, is really the whole point of an aptitude test. It is to see if you meet a threshold for certain jobs so that you will be successful with the training and academics that go with it. If you are unhappy with the results, you can request to retake the CFAT.


----------



## Lumber

Scarlett said:
			
		

> That some may find it difficult, even after studying, is really the whole point of an aptitude test. It is to see if you meet a threshold for certain jobs so that you will be successful with the training and academics that go with it. If you are unhappy with the results, you can request to retake the CFAT.





			
				Mike81 said:
			
		

> I don't agree with this test being done on a computer and how much time is given on the test for each section of the test and you are not allowed to use a calculator at all they give you two small pieces of paper to do your calculations on...



For example, your ability to actually perform calculations, as opposed to your ability to operate a mechanical aide. Besides, while it is much faster with a calculator, it's no more difficult to have paper and pencil. You should try doing it all in your head! "Let see, I'm 150 yards off track, going 10 knots, so if I steer in 3 degrees, and it's 0835 then I will regain my track at..."


----------



## mariomike

Lumber said:
			
		

> For example, your ability to actually perform calculations, as opposed to your ability to operate a mechanical aide. Besides, while it is much faster with a calculator, it's no more difficult to have paper and pencil. You should try doing it all in your head! "Let see, I'm 150 yards off track, going 10 knots, so if I steer in 3 degrees, and it's 0835 then I will regain my track at..."



Or,



			
				MedCorps said:
			
		

> As a Jr Med Tech math is mostly used to calculate drug dosages, oral, injectable and IV.
> 
> For instance,  Dilantin, 0.1 g is ordered by the Medical Officer to be given through a nasogastric tube. Dilantin is available as 30 mg / 5 mL. How much would the QL5A Med Tech administer?
> 
> Or... Calculate the IV flow rate for 1200 mL of NS to be infused in 6 hours. The issued infusion set is calibrated for a drop factor of 15 gtts/mL. What is the drop rate per minute you set the infusion set to deliver?
> 
> Needless to say the tolerance for error when administering / calculating medications is very low. There are about 10 types of calculations you will be expected to perform.  These will be taught and tested on your QL3 / QL5A Med Tech courses.
> 
> As you get up in rank math will be more utilitarian.
> 
> For instance,
> 
> A clinic has 3 Care Delivery Units (CDU). CDU 1 has sees 15 patients a day, CDU 2 sees 32 patients a day, CDU 3 sees 14 patients a day. 22 of these patients are booked and the remainder are "walk in".  What is the average number of patients seen by the clinic a day. What percentage of these patients are booked appointments and what percentage are walk in?
> 
> Your medical treatment facility (MTF) has 7 casualties to evacuate 40 km to the Brigade Medical Station (BMS).  The ground evacuation rate of movement factor is fixed for this operation at 30 km/H due to congestion on the evacuation routes. The ambulance can take only 3 casualties at a time due to a broken litter kit in the back. Add 10% to your final number as a safety calculation How long will it take to evacuate all the casualties? If your evacuation of casualties leaves at 14:23 when will they arrive at the BMS?  When will the ambulance return to your MTF for the next load?
> 
> It is not "higher" functions math such as differential geometry or number theory but basic math skills are important to the Med Tech and the casualties they treat.
> 
> Good luck with you application.
> 
> MC


----------



## Loachman

Mike81 said:
			
		

> Hello good day I wrote the CFAT yesterday and there is some things on how the test is given on the computer that people should be aware of, its done on a computer, each section is timed for example the math questions there are 30 questions and you are given 30 minutes to do this portion which means your given a minute per question and once you select your answer you cannot go back unless you complete the questions and still have time remaining to go back and review.



Holy Run-on Sentences, Batman!! I almost passed out from hypoxia while reading that.



			
				Mike81 said:
			
		

> I don't agree with this test being done on a computer



The Canadian Armed Forces does not care if you agree with its tests or not. Your opinion is irrelevant. When you are in a position to hire people, you can set your own tests. CFAT has evolved over time, and works fairly well for its intended purposes.



			
				Mike81 said:
			
		

> when I wrote my 1st year millwright provincial exam they at least let you use a calculator.



Do millwrights have to do rapid calculations in complete darkness, in pouring rain, while flying at x00 knots, while being shot at, while half-frozen or half-baked, exhausted, with dead batteries or a calculator that's been smashed against a rock or drowned in a swamp? The test is to see what you can do, not what your calculator can do. Technology is nice, but too many are too dependent upon it and cannot function when it is not available.


----------



## DAA

:goodpost:

I guess after applying "online", someone never bothered to read the rest of the information available at the website.  It's all there, in black and white.    :facepalm:

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#tab4


----------



## canucksnation

Use this site for the practice exams, really helped me out a lot

http://www.aptitude-test.com/


----------



## sanycsport@hotmail.com

I fudged up the paperwork and thus had to cancel my CFAT appointment last minute. How badly of a screw up is this?


----------



## Andraste

I am sure you will be fine.  Just contact your recruiter and explain things (if they don't already know) and then rebook a new writing session.

Regards

Andraste


----------



## Dockrill923

at least you cancelled and didn't just no show


----------



## PTFreak

To CAF Recruiter,

I am currently in the process of applying to the Reg forces as a DEO for infantry or pilot. I have already received confirmation that my application has been accepted for further processing and am currently waiting for the interview/CFAT test to be scheduled. I understand that there is a high volume of people applying and only limited resources to handle said volume. 

I have spoken with the Captain at my local detachment and explained that I have some references to that have historically or are currently, serving in the CAF as Junior and Senior officers. He seemed very friendly and cooperative, then gave me the extension of the Corporal in charge of scheduling aptitude testing but did not specify that I am to rush my interview ahead of other applicants.

My question: Is it reasonable for my to call the Corporal and ask to have my interview/testing scheduled sooner, or should I wait until contacted? I have reason to believe that I am an exceptional candidate for the trades I have selected due to my training as a semi-professional athlete and more than adequate academic record. 

Thank you for taking the time to respond,

A truly eager candidate


----------



## George Wallace

PTFreak said:
			
		

> To CAF Recruiter,
> 
> I am currently in the process of applying to the Reg forces as a DEO for infantry or pilot. I have already received confirmation that my application has been accepted for further processing and am currently waiting for the interview/CFAT test to be scheduled. I understand that there is a high volume of people applying and only limited resources to handle said volume.
> 
> I have spoken with the Captain at my local detachment and explained that I have some references to that have historically or are currently, serving in the CAF as Junior and Senior officers. He seemed very friendly and cooperative, then gave me the extension of the Corporal in charge of scheduling aptitude testing but did not specify that I am to rush my interview ahead of other applicants.
> 
> My question: Is it reasonable for my to call the Corporal and ask to have my interview/testing scheduled sooner, or should I wait until contacted? I have reason to believe that I am an exceptional candidate for the trades I have selected due to my training as a semi-professional athlete and more than adequate academic record.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to respond,
> 
> A truly eager candidate



As you have already discovered: "there is a high volume of people applying and only limited resources to handle said volume"; the matter of pushing you to the front of the line may be impossible.  Timings are geared around the availability of facilities for testing and interviews, availability of staff to conduct testing and interviews, etc.  Trying to appease your own personal impressions of your chances, really have no priority status in the scheme of things.  You are free to keep in contact with your recruiting staff at the CAFRC that you are dealing with, and perhaps they will have all the stars align to facilitate earlier testing and interviews for a group of prospects, but that will be the call of that CAFRC.  

More information can be found on this site in these threads:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

http://army.ca/forums/threads/12755.0.html


----------



## DAA

PTFreak said:
			
		

> My question: Is it reasonable for my to call the Corporal and ask to have my interview/testing scheduled sooner, or should I wait until contacted? I have reason to believe that I am an exceptional candidate for the trades I have selected due to my training as a semi-professional athlete and more than adequate academic record.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to respond,
> 
> A truly eager candidate



You're more than welcome and I encourage you to contact your local Recruiting Detachment to have your Testing scheduled at your convenience but that is all you will get, is an appointment for the Testing.

Scheduling for an interview and or further processing is normally based on how well you do on your aptitude test (ie; CFAT) which is the first step in the process.  Other than that, nothing else really matters.

Good luck!


----------



## PTFreak

DAA said:
			
		

> You're more than welcome and I encourage you to contact your local Recruiting Detachment to have your Testing scheduled at your convenience but that is all you will get, is an appointment for the Testing.
> 
> Scheduling for an interview and or further processing is normally based on how well you do on your aptitude test (ie; CFAT) which is the first step in the process.  Other than that, nothing else really matters.
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks for the reply,

This might be a silly question: So by no means will my eagerness in contacting the Recruiting Detachment appear as an annoyance or work against my application?

I am truly not at all worried about my CFAT performance. I understand the eCFAT available on the website is a lot easier than the real thing. I completed it in less than half the allotted time and scored 100% and plan on practicing a lot more for more advance spatial patterns. 

So in that sense if I score well on the CFAT could I jump to the top of the list? Just super eager to get into this career!!


----------



## Andraste

PTFreak,

As you noted the CFAT available online is much easier (indeed it is significantly easier) as it was designed to give potential applicants an understanding of the test structure.  Having a healthy sense of confidence is a great thing going in but do ensure you understand the types of questions you might be run into and be able to answer more difficult questions of same type . . . be prepared and all will go well.

Your CFAT is one part of the selection process and while a good score is of benefit there are other hurdles to jump.  Being eager for a career in the CAF is a good thing . . . so keep that enthusiasm  

Cheers

Andraste


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, PTFreak

This is not a part of this Site for lengthy discussions, but I am going to post this here, for your benefit and for the benefit of others (and that includes people like you as well as their potential subordinates)

I commend you, firstly, on your enthusiasm. Motivation is important. So are many other things.



			
				PTFreak said:
			
		

> I have some references to that have historically or are currently, serving in the CAF as Junior and Senior officers <snip> did not specify that I am to rush my interview ahead of other applicants.



Do I understand this properly? Do you expect special treatment because of family connections? I hope that you do not, because such an attitude will not go over well, and you will be disappointed. You will be judged upon your OWN merits, against a standard and in comparison with your peers, and not upon what others in your family have done.



			
				PTFreak said:
			
		

> I have reason to believe that I am an exceptional candidate for the trades I have selected due to my training as a semi-professional athlete and more than adequate academic record.



Academic record and athleticism, even combined, are nice, but no guarantor of anything. I have met many well-educated twits and many very athletic twits. There is far, far more to being a good Officer. There is far, far more required to succeed in the courses required to qualify.

Confidence is good. Overconfidence and an inflated ego are not.

Your belief is irrelevant. How you actually perform, individually and as part of a team, is what counts. You have to prove yourself.



			
				PTFreak said:
			
		

> I am truly not at all worried about my CFAT performance.



You should be.

Look at my overconfidence remark again.

You should worry enough to prepare yourself properly - but not enough to cause anxiety or paralysis. There is a balance to be found. Find it.

Worry and fear are survival mechanisms. They exist for good reason, and should be heeded and not brushed aside.

Overconfident people often fail to put in the effort necessary to succeed. I have seen that many times. Talent - and neither we nor you know (your "belief" does not count as knowledge) that you actually have any yet - without effort generally leads to performance well below potential and/or the required standard.

I have also seen people so convinced of their own superiority, so full of themselves, that they piss off everybody around them, and hence also court failure. This is a team effort. If you cannot participate as an equal, and fit in well, you will likely fail because nobody will be willing to help you when you need it - and you WILL need help, regardless of your school marks or athletic ability. You will need to earn the respect of your superiors, your peers, and, even more importantly, your subordinates. Understand that. Really understand that.

Your subordinates will often know more than you, regardless of how well you did at school.



			
				PTFreak said:
			
		

> So in that sense if I score well on the CFAT could I jump to the top of the list?



No. Why should you? It is only an INDICATOR of potential. Even a top score does not mean that you WILL actually be successful.

And "successful" can be taken several ways. Success in training, ie passing your courses, is good, but being successful as an Officer requires a lot more. Lack of compassion, lack of ability to make proper and timely decisions, lack of ability to know what is right and to do it, lack of ability to seek and accept advice, lack of humility, lack of mental as well as physical stamina, and many other shortcomings can all prevent you from being a good Officer, regardless of how well you do on course. Many have achieved high rank, for various reasons, yet are not/have not been good Officers. They can be a danger to themselves, and, even worse, to others.

This profession offers unimaginable rewards, and it can be a lot of fun. It is also very real. Responsibility for critical, expensive, and often irreplaceable equipment is real. Death is real. Severe and permanent injury is real. That is beyond your comprehension at this point. School and games do not compare.

None of this is intended to sound harsh, but you seem to need a little dose of reality. You may be good in those environments to which you are accustomed, but you are attempting to move into one that is vastly different and that rightly expects much more of you, and what you have done so far is only a small part of what you will have to do.

When I was in the Pilot training programme, we were told that only one in eight hundred Pilot applicants achieves his (there were no female Pilots then) Wings, and I doubt that this has significantly changed.

Some do not get past the initial recruiting process.

Some of the ones that succeed there do not get past Aircrew Selection.

Some of the ones that succeed there do not get past BMOQ.

Some of the ones that succeed there do not get past the various phases of flying training.

And many of the ones that washed out at any of those stages likely saw himself as you do now.

Special snowflakes melt just as quickly as ordinary ones.

CFAT is one small step. There are many other steps, and each one gets bigger. Getting past one is good, but it only means that you have the next one to climb.

And even achieving one's Wings is just another step. It does not end there.

Start reading through existing threads here on this Site, and educate yourself.

Understand what you need to do, and what and who you need to be.


----------



## hockey_10000

hey everyone 

so i did my cfat today. i think i did well but the reason im posting is because after going through the forums i saw that lots of people got the results just after their test for me i did not they just told me that i will receive further instructions for the remainer of my recruiting process by the mail (not e-mail ). so i was wondering did this happen to anyone else ? and im that guy that always thinks of the worst before the best so since i did not get the results im was thinking maybe i failed but then again i asked the recruiter if i passed he said he did not know because he does not have the results either but then i again it was not the same one who called out my name after the test it was an other one so maybe it was the one who called out my name who had the results but then again the one who spoke to me checked my folder so im guessing he would of told me if i failed but he only said that ill get further instructions and i asked him will i get my result at the same time he said yes and i got 1 more question what is the minimum you need to get in the infantry (reserve force) ? if anyone could answer that too thanks


----------



## Loachman

"Going through the forums" included reading this thread?

Please capitalize and punctuate where appropriate. Your post is painful to attempt to read, and does not reflect well upon you.


----------



## hockey_10000

hello, 
I am pretty worried right now because i did my CFAT yesterday and did not get any results so i don't know if i scored high enough to get into infantry. what they told me is only that i will get more information for the remainder of my recruiting process (including my results) by the post in a few days . I was wondering if it was normal ? 

Also not sure if it meant anything but after the CFAT we all went downstairs with a recruiter and then another one came down took my file and another girl file and call out my name + the other girl to go up to the 3 floor with him he went into his office with her and i was in the waiting room then a different guy came and told me that basically i was going to get information by mail. 

thanks for your time


----------



## hockey_10000

i asked this question in another post but its got merged and i went through all 33 pages and my question was not answered so i'm trying here in the hopes and i get a good and clear answer from a recruiter.


----------



## George Wallace

hockey_10000

Welcome to army.ca

You have asked this same question several times in the last few hours and are basically spamming the site in your hopes of an instant answer.  

WAIT until a knowledgeable person can come online to answer your question.


----------



## hockey_10000

alright i apologize  about that its just i could not sleep without a clear answer this has got me worried sick because i saw that people on this site got their results right after their test , so since i need to wait to receive it i have a weird feeling like if the recruiter did not want to say if i passed or failed or something so again i'm sorry my intentions were not to spam also i did not know that there was a section in the forums where you could ask a recruiter himself for help i just found out if i would of known i would not of posted elsewhere but that is my own fault for not looking enough


----------



## mariomike

For hockey_10000.

"...i did my CFAT yesterday and did not get any results so i don't know if i scored high enough to get into infantry."

From the Ask a CAF Recruiter "READ FIRST" Sticky: "Before you ask a question, you should be searching the forum or the Forces.ca website for these answers."

What do you need to get on the CFAT for Infantry Trade?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102745.0

CFAT Scoring? Minimum for Reg force Infantry?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/87313.0

What are th lowest you can get on the cfat in order to get into the infantry?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-22341.html#msg22341

Does someone know how high you have to score to become an infantryman?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-315883/topicseen.html#msg315883

To get into infantry, what is the school you need to get on the CFAT?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-253111.html#msg253111

And one more thing im very bad at math?? will that have a lot to do with passing for Infantry Soldier which is what i really wanna do!!
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-212708/topicseen.html#msg212708

My choice's were Infantry Soldier And Amoured Solider! Does anyone know if you need a supurb socre to get into thoise ocupations???
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-212604/topicseen.html#msg212604

I plan to join the reserves, with an Infantry MOC. I hope the CFAT is alot easier than this test was.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-179521/topicseen.html#msg179521

And for infantry, you don't need a very high score (I heard).
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-87577/topicseen.html#msg87577

CFAT infantry score  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/110464.0.html

For infantry you need to score 18/60...  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-58553/topicseen.html#msg58553

CFAT for infantry officer  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/92210.0

CFAT Test Results...what does it mean?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193/post-58394/topicseen.html#msg58394
I‘m sure they have some room for you in the infantry, you don‘t need grade 12 math to know how to dig a hole  

etc...


----------



## PuckChaser

Call the recruiting center today and ask whether your qualified for all of your trade choices since you weren't told after the test? Sometimes the answer is just so simple.


----------



## hockey_10000

well i got my answer i did not pass gonna do a re-write but friendly advise do not underestimate the test !!! practice your grade 10 maths read alot do iq tests but grade 10 math books to practice but do not go do the test thinking ahh its gonna be easy no need to practice or ah well i want to be in the infantry i do not need to get a good mark !! wronngg practice practice practice or you will regret it 
 i cant tell you exactly what is in the test but i can tell you that it has to do with grade 10 maths


----------



## Loachman

You have my sympathies, I hope that your advice helps others, and I wish you better on your next attempt.

Six posts ago, I made a request to you:



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> Please capitalize and punctuate where appropriate. Your post is painful to attempt to read, and does not reflect well upon you.



I am serious about that. It's your reputation, of course, so feel free to ignore it, but lack of effort in one area generally indicates a lack of effort in others. You have acknowledged a need to do better in math. Apply that in all other areas as well.

You are competing for a position that you want. Competing. There are minimum standards that must be met. Minimum standards. Meeting minimum standards, though, is not good enough if others perform better than you. There is no guarantee of success, as you now know.

Should you pass the CFAT next time, you will have many other challenges to overcome before you even qualify at the basic level of your desired occupation. And the challenges do not stop there - you should be enjoying challenges for your whole career.

Do yourself a favour: set a high standard for yourself now, and strive to meet it. Should you meet it, set a new one higher.

Effective communication, spoken and written, is important in all aspects of life. It is especially important in the CF, where expensive, and often irreplaceable, equipment and, more importantly, LIVES, frequently depend upon it. At some point in the future, given sufficient talent and through hard work on your part, you will find yourself in leadership positions. Can't communicate clearly? How would you expect to lead? Won't make the effort to do so? Where else will you not make the effort to perform at least adequately?

You will be judged on many things in life. That includes here. The two main things upon which people are judged here are their ideas and how they express them.

We like success stories. We want people to succeed.

We, on this Site and in the CF - your leaders, instructors, peers - will do what we can to help you succeed, but only as far as you are willing to make an honest effort yourself.


----------



## mariomike

Also for hockey_10000. ( Unable to reply to her/him in the restricted Ask a CAF Recruiter forum or locked CFAT super-thread. )

well i got my answer i did not pass gonna do a re-write but friendly advise do not underestimate the test !!! practice your grade 10 maths read alot do iq tests but grade 10 math books to practice but do not go do the test thinking ahh its gonna be easy no need to practice or ah well i want to be in the infantry i do not need to get a good mark !! wronngg practice practice practice or you will regret it 
 i cant tell you exactly what is in the test but i can tell you that it has to do with grade 10 maths 

CFAT Math Specific Questions (Merged) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/26449.175.html
8 pages.

See also,

CFAT Math
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+math&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=yDRMV7kUiY3xB4H0rJgP&gws_rd=ssl#

PM sent to hockey_10000  so s/he can learn from these math specific discussions for her/his next attempt at CFAT.


----------



## Loachman

Thanks, mariomike. I will merge those links that you provided into this thread later - those that are mergeable, at least.

This thread was locked for a reason - mainly due to the repetitive nature of questions and answers. I am mulling the idea of re-opening it temporarily, but it is already more than long enough.


----------



## hockey_10000

hey 

i did not do well on my first try for the cfat mainly because i did not practice enough. i do not know in what part of the test i did not do well though but i think its in the maths and spacial sections. 
i know its hard to practice spacial ability but for the math part i know that if you study grade 10 math you should be able to pass it so my question is : where can i order a book that explains grade 10 maths? or do you guys know a book i could buy or order ? 

also if possible in french since I'm from Montreal so the test is in french . And  i cant go take a course in grade 10 math since I've already passed high school 7 years ago but that's the problem i don't remember anything from grade 10 since it has been so long


----------



## mariomike

hockey_10000 said:
			
		

> where can i order a book that explains grade 10 maths?



This may help,

CFAT Book  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/109801.0

Will an ASVAB prep-book prepare me for the CFAT?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/101451.0

CFAT practice
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+cfat+practice&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=NZdMV5nbGKiC8QfMs6uoAw&gws_rd=ssl

CFAT book
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+cfat+practice&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=NZdMV5nbGKiC8QfMs6uoAw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+CFAT+book

Forcesready.ca? CFAT Prep  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/106534.0

CFAT Practice and FAQs  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/68213.0

CFAT Math Specific Questions (Merged) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/26449.175.html
8 pages.

See also,

MATH HELP 

GRE MATH SITE http://www.onlinemathlearning.com/gre-math.html

http://www.needmathhelp.com/gr10math.htm  ALL SECTIONS IN GR 10 CURRICULUM 

Word Problems Forum with Answers :  http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homework/word/age/Age_Word_Problems.faq.hide_answers.1.html

ALL TYPES OF WORKSHEETS : RATIOS, DIVISION, FRACTIONS, ETC.http://www.mathworksheets4kids.com/percent.html
http://www.mathworksheets4kids.com/word-problems.html   WORD PROBS

http://www.algebra.com/ Fractions

Dividing Decimals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_946495&feature=iv&src_vid=eI6Xp6pwhqc&v=UiB1pB_5leU

Convering P into F/D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04eEAxkc4bk&feature=relmfu

Solving Ratio Word Probs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJIGXAfCcpQ

Manipulating Fractions http://www.careergym.com/blog_comment/numerical_quantitative_reasoning_best_practices_3_manipulating_fractions

http://www.careergym.com/blog_comment/numerical_quantitative_reasoning_best_practices_1_fuellling_up_the_tank

http://voices.yahoo.com/algebra-help-solve-boat-river-word-problems-2820345.html?cat=4

http://voices.yahoo.com/algebra-help-set-solve-percent-word-1960353.html?cat=4

http://voices.yahoo.com/algebra-help-solve-age-word-problems-3255471.html?cat=4

CFAT Math
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+math&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=yDRMV7kUiY3xB4H0rJgP&gws_rd=ssl#

You can also check the 34-page Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  for CFAT book reviews:
https://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.825.html



			
				hockey_10000 said:
			
		

> also if possible in french



You could ask here,

Test d'aptitude  
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/31679.100.html


----------



## hockey_10000

Thanks a lot you have been really helpful to me mariomike , thanks for taking the time to help out


----------



## mariomike

hockey_10000 said:
			
		

> Thanks a lot you have been really helpful to me mariomike , thanks for taking the time to help out



You are welcome. Good luck!


----------



## hockey_10000

Thanks and also i wish this post can help other people to prepare ! i found an app on android called CFAT trainer which is helpful not as much as a book but it will ask you questions similar to the ones on the test and it will give feedback after every questions . It is free but you can pay 6.99 and have 700 questions 

So remember ''CFAT trainer'' on the App store


----------



## Loachman

This will all be merged into the CFAT FAQ thread soon.

I am not looking forward to doing that...

And hockey_10000 - Capital letters and punctuation. This is my third request to you now.


----------



## hockey_10000

Alright sorry about that Loachman. I know you just want to help me out . I will try my best from now on.


----------



## Loachman

Excellent. Qapla!


----------



## SashaQ

mariomike said:
			
		

> This may help,
> 
> "what type of math is on the aptitude test?":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106898.0
> 
> "Math questions on the test":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30895.0/nowap.html
> 
> "CFAT Math Problem Solving":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91357.0
> 
> "Not the best at math..":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107441.0
> 
> "CFAT Math + other question":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/80466.0
> 
> "How does one 'relearn' math?":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26449.0
> 
> "I suck at math (CFAT worries)":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/65081.0
> 
> "If you need help in Math for the CFAT":
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60947.0/nowap.html
> 
> ?MATH?
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/109763.0
> 
> CFAT Math
> https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+math&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=UKw7VojXDcKC8QeF4afwCg&gws_rd=ssl



Just responding to follow post....


----------



## dbrks88

CFAT Trainer app and youtube. I didn't score high enough for AVN/ACS my first time around and I had to wait a year for a waiver. The week before I had to rewrite I just watched youtube videos and did practice questions to relearn everything pre algebra and I did excellent the second time.


----------



## Loachman

I have unlocked this thread for the time being, but it is already thirty-four pages long, so please limit discussion to essential matters and avoid posting study aids that have already been posted.


----------



## Drew Grey

So quick question...after I completed my CFAT I was handed a sheet of paper saying something to the extent of "you have successfully completed your CFAT test" 

It didn't mention anything about passing for the trades I selected or anything like that. Just that they would review my results with other applicants and if they were competitive id be contacted for further processing. Pass or are they still determining that?


----------



## mariomike

Drew Grey said:
			
		

> after I completed my CFAT I was handed a sheet of paper saying something to the extent of "you have successfully completed your CFAT test"



For reference, perhaps CFAT passed? will be merged with Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0
34 pages.

See also,

CFAT
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+cfat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=V9dmV9C8DIGN8QegsIHwBQ&gws_rd=ssl


----------



## Loachman

Somewhere in the preceding thirty-four pages, Drew Grey, likely lies the answer to your question.


----------



## emilien

Hi everyone!

-- I'm pretty sure you got lots of questions about the CFAT but it's my first time on this website so I thank you right now if you answer me about it.--

Sadly, I've failed my CFAT last April. Next week I can ask for doing it again because I've been waiting for almost three months. Even if I did the test once, I am still scared and stressed about another failure, obviously, because being in the big family of the Canadian Forces is something I want since I'm born(want to be in the Artillery). 

I study, a lot, from the day I knew I failed until the day I will be infront that computer doing it again but I would like to know some of you are/have been in the same situation as me? How it was when you did the test another time? etc...

Thank you again,
Emilie

--Sorry if sometimes my English is wrong, I am a French Canadian.--


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, emilien

Firstly, my condolences. I hope that you do better next time.

As you've now seen, courtesy of mariomike's generosity, there is a ton of information on this Site already, and threads for many subjects. Please avoid starting new threads when one already exists. Take some time to explore, and try the Search Function for specific things. If you cannot find an answer to something after an honest effort, feel free to ask and help will be gladly given - but we expect you to do your homework first. You'll learn more that way, as well.

Also, please do not post the same thing more than once.


----------



## Drew Grey

A question I have is it possible to rewrite the CFAT in the event you didn't fail but want to do it again and gain a better score?


----------



## Drew Grey

Obviously nobody knows their score but supposing you didn't feel good about yours?


----------



## PuckChaser

Drew Grey said:
			
		

> Obviously nobody knows their score but supposing you didn't feel good about yours?



No, you're wasting the CFRC's time. If you qualified for the trades you picked, thats the score you get.


----------



## Loachman

There's a whole thirty-five-page thread about CFAT, into which I've just merged yours. Please read it, and look for other threads to read before posting questions that have been asked and answered before.

If it's too long for you, that's because many others have also posted questions that have been asked and answered before.


----------



## DAA

Drew Grey said:
			
		

> A question I have is it possible to rewrite the CFAT in the event you didn't fail but want to do it again and gain a better score?



Yes, you can ask to rewrite the CFAT a 2nd time with the hope of improving your previous score but be forewarned.......the score that will be used, is the score obtained from your most recent test session, whether it's better or worse.

If you have not yet been selected for countinued processing (ie; Medical and Interview) and have been waiting for more than a year after originally writing the CFAT, you may want to discuss this possibility with your local Recruiting Detachment.


----------



## Eric Wang

Are you allowed to bring paper for calculations?


----------



## George Wallace

Paper and pencil are provided.

For a good idea what will happen, read this thread.


----------



## EmilieCS

Hello, 

I am looking for inputs on a particular situation I have found myself in regarding the CFAT. I've searched the forums but haven't found anyone in this particular situation.

I have chosen the Supply Tech trade (Reg Force) and I've passed the CFAT from the skin of my teeth. I've completed my medical and interview today and was told that some of my work background and the fact that I was previously in the reserves may help my case BUT the fact that my CFAT score is poor makes my file not competitive and it will put me at the bottom of the list. I've also been told that it is possible that I will never get picked up for this reason.

My question; is my CFAT score THAT much more important than my previous work experience AND the fact that I used to be a reservist? Do I still have a chance to get in the forces without redoing my CFAT?


----------



## mariomike

If you wish to re-write your CFAT in hopes of improving your score, you may find Reply #856 of interest.


----------



## EmilieCS

mariomike said:
			
		

> If you wish to re-write your CFAT in hopes of improving your score, you may find Reply #856 of interest.



My objective is to avoid rewriting the CFAT if at all possible. I am wondering if I still have a chance of getting an offer even though my score was not competitive.


----------



## mariomike

EmilieCS said:
			
		

> My objective is to avoid rewriting the CFAT if at all possible. I am wondering if I still have a chance of getting an offer even though my score was not competitive.



DAA would be a reliable source of information.
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/members/7446


----------



## krimynal

EmilieCS said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for inputs on a particular situation I have found myself in regarding the CFAT. I've searched the forums but haven't found anyone in this particular situation.
> 
> I have chosen the Supply Tech trade (Reg Force) and I've passed the CFAT from the skin of my teeth. I've completed my medical and interview today and was told that some of my work background and the fact that I was previously in the reserves may help my case BUT the fact that my CFAT score is poor makes my file not competitive and it will put me at the bottom of the list. I've also been told that it is possible that I will never get picked up for this reason.
> 
> My question; is my CFAT score THAT much more important than my previous work experience AND the fact that I used to be a reservist? Do I still have a chance to get in the forces without redoing my CFAT?



I AM NOT A RECRUITER NOR DO I HAVE EVER WORKED IN THE RECRUITING PROCESSS

Now that this is mention and I cleared it out.  If they told you that your file is not competitive enough for a trade , remember that a LOT of people will apply for the same trade as you , and while previous military stuff is looked at , the MAIN thing is the CFAT.  Usually your CFAT score will be 60% of the entire score for the process , interview / medical and all the other things will make up the rest of the 100%. 

Knowing that , redoing the CFAT might be a REALLY smart choice , just because that way you will open a LOT of doors in the future.  

Like I said I am not in the recruiting process , I simply did 2 years in the reserve , released and reapply , and I asked them back when I reapplied if my previous military experience was going to help me out.  The answer was "in some way it can help you get in faster since you won't have to go to st-jean, but the trade selection will MOSTLY ( not entirely ) be decided by the CFAT and the interview"

DAA will be able to help you out a lot , but I honestly would look at redoing the CFAT and make sure that you become competitive for the trades you are looking at


----------



## EmilieCS

krimynal said:
			
		

> I AM NOT A RECRUITER NOR DO I HAVE EVER WORKED IN THE RECRUITING PROCESSS
> 
> Now that this is mention and I cleared it out.  If they told you that your file is not competitive enough for a trade , remember that a LOT of people will apply for the same trade as you , and while previous military stuff is looked at , the MAIN thing is the CFAT.  Usually your CFAT score will be 60% of the entire score for the process , interview / medical and all the other things will make up the rest of the 100%.
> 
> Knowing that , redoing the CFAT might be a REALLY smart choice , just because that way you will open a LOT of doors in the future.
> 
> Like I said I am not in the recruiting process , I simply did 2 years in the reserve , released and reapply , and I asked them back when I reapplied if my previous military experience was going to help me out.  The answer was "in some way it can help you get in faster since you won't have to go to st-jean, but the trade selection will MOSTLY ( not entirely ) be decided by the CFAT and the interview"
> 
> DAA will be able to help you out a lot , but I honestly would look at redoing the CFAT and make sure that you become competitive for the trades you are looking at



Thanks for your helpful reply. I was hoping to avoid rewriting the CFAT by fear of having an even poorer score but I guess I will have to consider redoing it.


----------



## mariomike

krimynal said:
			
		

> I AM NOT A RECRUITER NOR DO I HAVE EVER WORKED IN THE RECRUITING PROCESSS



But, didn't you once play one on TV?


----------



## krimynal

mariomike said:
			
		

> But, didn't you once play one on TV?



depends , you watch a lot of adult movies  ?


----------



## krimynal

hahaha , couldn't resist LOL


----------



## Eric Wang

How much harder is the actual CFAT comparing to the practice one?


----------



## itsflashpoint

Eric16 said:
			
		

> How much harder is the actual CFAT comparing to the practice one?



I'd personally say its "much harder" but its not that hard.

I failed my CFAT I think 2 years ago, I am thinking of redoing it. I don't know which parts I did bad, hell I didn't even know that I failed. I had to call them and ask them for the results.

The day my CFAT was on they were doing some sort of a training thing in case the building was on fire, or in case of other things were to go wrong, or what not. So we were moved to another location. It was an interesting day haha.


----------



## Deadpoetic6

Do you have access to a pen and a sheet of paper, or do you have to do all the maths in your head?


----------



## mariomike

Deadpoetic6 said:
			
		

> Do you have access to a pen and a sheet of paper, or do you have to do all the maths in your head?



CFAT - General Question - Math - Pencil & Paper allowed?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/114790.0;nowap
Locked.

See also,

CFAT paper and pencil or CFAT paper and pen,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=cfat+paper&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=wsHSV62aM8iC8QfHjp-ABg&gws_rd=ssl#q=+site:army.ca+++cfat+paper+pencil


----------



## Titicboom

Greetings,

Just curious if there is a set of key words that are associated with your results after your CFAT and again after your interview.
I have seen different adjectives used throughout the forums that people where told.  Such as Ideal Candidate for your selected trades or preferrered candidate etc.

I know exact results of the CFAT are not shared with applicants.  Is the MP factor shared with them if they ask as they finish the process?

Another question is what is the weighting of the CFAT results.  Or is it just a pass/fail to meet requirements for your desired trade combined with other documents and the results that builds the complete file.

What I mean is that if someone "aced" the CFAT would he, given everything else being equal, be "merited" higher then a candidate who scored lower.

Our is the process so much more complex then I am envisioning.

Cheers and once more thank you for the boards.  A wealth of information that I wish every recruiter nudged candidates to read through.


----------



## Loachman

Has your son - who should really be doing this - read through "Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ" at http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html? If not, then he should. If these questions were not answered within the 35 pages there, then somebody will fill in any gaps. I will merge these two threads soon, as there is no need to have yet another one for the same topic.


----------



## thematrixiam

Are we allowed to suggest people study up on a certain type of question?
I just wrote the CFAT yesterday, and I know I would have loved to have had some practice on questions like the type I am thinking of.


----------



## Lumber

thematrixiam said:
			
		

> Are we allowed to suggest people study up on a certain type of question?
> I just wrote the CFAT yesterday, and I know I would have loved to have had some practice on questions like the type I am thinking of.



Did they make you sign anything that says "do not speak about the questions you saw on this test?". If not, then I would say have at 'er.

Also, I'm curious now (also because I like tests), what was the question you had trouble with?


----------



## DAA

thematrixiam said:
			
		

> Are we allowed to suggest people study up on a certain type of question?
> I just wrote the CFAT yesterday, and I know I would have loved to have had some practice on questions like the type I am thinking of.



So long as you aren't posting the "actual" questions, you're more than welcome to suggest generic "study" resources.


----------



## thematrixiam

Perfect. Not the same question, just generic info. 

One big type of question I recommend getting practice on is problems with decimal places with percentage and percentages, and more percentages.

For example

10,000 Potatoes - reg price $10.10

55% of Potatoes sold at 55% off
23% of Potatoes sold at 23% off
5% of Potatoes sold at 5% off
The rest sold at 2% off

How much money was made.

----------------------

I know if I had practice on questions like that I could have done it much faster. But not having the practice definitely slowed me down.


----------



## Lumber

thematrixiam said:
			
		

> Perfect. Not the same question, just generic info.
> 
> One big type of question I recommend getting practice on is problems with decimal places with percentage and percentages, and more percentages.
> 
> For example
> 
> 10,000 Potatoes - reg price $10.10
> 
> 55% of Potatoes sold at 55% off
> 23% of Potatoes sold at 23% off
> 5% of Potatoes sold at 5% off
> The rest sold at 2% off
> 
> How much money was made.
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> I know if I had practice on questions like that I could have done it much faster. But not having the practice definitely slowed me down.



I got 100% in Integral Calculus in University, and I still can't multiply decimals in my head or on paper with any kind of speed or accuracy.


----------



## mapledonutmouth

I had the CFAT test yesterday. All I can say is that if you are comfortable with multiplication, long division, and working with fractions/decimals - you should be fine for it. There were also a few questions involving multiplication/division with decimals. I think 1 or 2 questions with proportions (ex.: If 5 of X costs 1 dollar, how much/many X could you buy with 3.75$). I don't think there was any algebra. Use your time wisely, the practice Aptitude test helps - but if you could find online practice sheets for multiplication/long division - then you should probably focus on that if you're weak.


----------



## Untamed Spyder

I did the CFAT yesterday and the only thing that was really hard was multiplying fractions and decimals is together or individually. and also finding the next number type of questions can be annoying. Just polish up on mental math and such. Other then that it was pretty easy.

Oh, also practice while being timed, Having the clock run while you practice can greatly help you practice and reduce unnecessary stress. 

Now i wait for call for my medical....

Good luck!


----------



## Kaya1981

Hello,
I was wondering how long is the result from your aptitude test good for ? 

Thank you.


----------



## Loachman

Somewhere, within these thirty-five pages, lies your answer...


----------



## Kaya1981

Well if you already know the answer couldn't you just tell me and save me some time ?  ;D


----------



## Loachman

Give a girl a fish, feed her for a day.

Teach a girl to fish, feed her for life.

You will learn, and benefit, more this way.

Most of these long threads are long because people keep asking the same questions rather than read what is already there for the taking.


----------



## mariomike

Loachman said:
			
		

> Give a girl a fish, feed her for a day.
> 
> Teach a girl to fish, feed her for life.


----------



## Lumber

Loachman said:
			
		

> Give a girl a fish, feed her for a day.
> 
> Teach a girl to fish, feed her for life.
> 
> You will learn, and benefit, more this way.
> 
> Most of these long threads are long because people keep asking the same questions rather than read what is already there for the taking.



Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.

Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...


----------



## TreeSquid

Good Afternoon,

I currently have my name in for AVN and have a re-write coming on January 4th. I did not do so well on the problem solving section, and I needed to improve my overall score. I just downloaded the "CFAT Trainer App" on the Google store and it is pretty great and helping tons!

My question is, does anyone know if the CFAT is based on score? or is it percentage? On the application is grades you, and gives you the percentage you achieved on the test, however it also gives a score. The score is what I think I should be keeping in mind but I just want some closure.  Sometimes I get a high percentage on a practice test, and the score is similar. Other times I have a low percent on the test, but my score is pretty high. 

I looked through the forums and haven't really seen anything. Any information would be useful just for preparation sake.

Best Regards, Mike


----------



## Rex12345

I was wondering about the CFAT that if someone qualifies for all three trades they want like Infantry, Artillery, or Combat engineer, and their CFAT score is in the 30 percentile, will they get in? Or will they tell them their results were not good enough? This isn't my score, I was just wondering what happens if you pass your CFAT but you score in the 30 percentile or 20 percentile. Or let's say for Infantry if they score high in the Verbal and Problem Solving, and they score low in Spatial, are they still able to get in? Like I have stated these are not my scores, I have just had someone tell me they passed their CFAT but they scored within the 40 percentile.


----------



## JToyts

They'll let you know which jobs you qualified for based on your score. I myself applied for Combat Engineer, Infantry and Artillery and wrote the CFAT about a month ago. They said I passed it and qualified for all of my selected careers and that they'll be pursuing my first choice. So to answer your question, they'll let you know which ones you qualify for based on your score


----------



## Rex12345

JToyts said:
			
		

> They'll let you know which jobs you qualified for based on your score. I myself applied for Combat Engineer, Infantry and Artillery and wrote the CFAT about a month ago. They said I passed it and qualified for all of my selected careers and that they'll be pursuing my first choice. So to answer your question, they'll let you know which ones you qualify for based on your score


 Congrats to you on passing your CFAT and qualifying for your chosen trades. Thank you for answering my question, I just had to ask because I have heard people say they did good in Verbal and Problem Solving but bad in Spatial, they qualified for the selected trades, but since they did bad on Spatial and good on Verbal and Problem Solving, they did not qualify for their choice of trade.


----------



## JToyts

Thank you and no problem! I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure its based on score so even if you do bad on the one section you can make up for it by getting more right in another section, as long as you meet the minimum required score for your chosen career then you'll be fine!


----------



## sidemount

The answer is it depends. All trades have a cutoff score, and its based on percentile. Some trades have an additional stipulation that you must score so well in certain areas of the cfat as well. 
I dont have dwan access for a specific example however.

Keep in mind as well that many others are applying for the same job and the cfat is the main separator so just because you qualify does not mean you are competitive....so take it seriously and do well.


Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rex12345

sidemount said:
			
		

> The answer is it depends. All trades have a cutoff score, and its based on percentile. Some trades have an additional stipulation that you must score so well in certain areas of the cfat as well.
> I dont have dwan access for a specific example however.
> 
> Keep in mind as well that many others are applying for the same job and the cfat is the main separator so just because you qualify does not mean you are competitive....so take it seriously and do well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


 Thanks for clarifying, even though if you're not competitive enough but passed the CFAT, are you still eligible to gain entry into the armed forces?


----------



## sidemount

Eligable yes...but say there are 10 openings and 100 applicants that are all eligable, you want to have a really high score to be in the top 10 and get one of those openings. If not, you may not get a job offer.

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rex12345

sidemount said:
			
		

> Eligable yes...but say there are 10 openings and 100 applicants that are all eligable, you want to have a really high score to be in the top 10 and get one of those openings. If not, you may not get a job offer.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


I know what you mean. So basically for those 10 openings and the 100 applicants, if you're not competitive for those openings, that means you would have to wait for more openings before you get accepted?


----------



## sidemount

Rex12345 said:
			
		

> I know what you mean. So basically for those 10 openings and the 100 applicants, if you're not competitive for those openings, that means you would have to wait for more openings before you get accepted?


Bingo.
And if more people apply then you may not get in on the next round of offers if they score really well.

Case in point, i scored in the 60th percentile 14 years ago. At the time that was fine for the job I applied for and was offered a job about 3 months after applying. Fast forward 10 years and I was then  applying for in service officer selection (utpncm). I qualified for all the officer trades but was not selected as I was not competitive enough against the others who had applied as well. I rewrote the cfat, scored in the 92th percentile and was selected the next time I applied.

So like I said, it is worth it to practice and do well.

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rex12345

sidemount said:
			
		

> Bingo.
> And if more people apply then you may not get in on the next round of offers if they score really well.
> 
> Case in point, i scored in the 60th percentile 14 years ago. At the time that was fine for the job I applied for and was offered a job about 3 months after applying. Fast forward 10 years and I was then  applying for in service officer selection (utpncm). I qualified for all the officer trades but was not selected as I was not competitive enough against the others who had applied as well. I rewrote the cfat, scored in the 92th percentile and was selected the next time I applied.
> 
> So like I said, it is worth it to practice and do well.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. I just wanted to get some insight on because I am not that great at test, sometimes when I do tests I get Test Anxiety and it hinders me from doing well on certain tests, but I get what you said by even scoring low but qualify, you can still get in but you will have to wait longer for an opening. Thanks again.


----------



## sidemount

Rex12345 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. I just wanted to get some insight on because I am not that great at test, sometimes when I do tests I get Test Anxiety and it hinders me from doing well on certain tests, but I get what you said by even scoring low but qualify, you can still get in but you will have to wait longer for an opening. Thanks again.


No worries, if you havent already wrote it, there are lots of good study guides on this site. Concentrate on grade 10 math. Decimals to fractions and number patterns. Its really not that bad.

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rex12345

sidemount said:
			
		

> No worries, if you havent already wrote it, there are lots of good study guides on this site. Concentrate on grade 10 math. Decimals to fractions and number patterns. Its really not that bad.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


Yeah I got a few things to practice with like a book called Pass the CFAT and the CFAT Trainer APP on my phone. I seem to score in the 70 to 80 percentile on those practice tests, but when it comes to real tests the anxiety hits, lol.


----------



## sidemount

Rex12345 said:
			
		

> Yeah I got a few things to practice with like a book called Pass the CFAT and the CFAT Trainer APP on my phone. I seem to score in the 70 to 80 percentile on those practice tests, but when it comes to real tests the anxiety hits, lol.


I found math.com was really good at getting me ready for the math portion.
The cfat can be stressful....just take a breath, relax, and work through it.

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rex12345

sidemount said:
			
		

> I found math.com was really good at getting me ready for the math portion.
> The cfat can be stressful....just take a breath, relax, and work through it.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


Thanks. The trades I really want to apply for are Infantry, Artillery, and either Combat Engineer or Mobile Support Equipment Operator. I don't know what the competition is like for those trades, but I will do my best to qualify for those trades.


----------



## GINge!

Hey Fellas, first time over in this part of Army.ca. Got a friend who wrote her CFAT today. She was trying for PSEL. Did not meet the cut off. That's the short version. 

A bit more info - she has graduated with BA in Psych, was a former PRes Security Officer (Lt), passed FORCE, E-E-E French profile, has held TS clearance, and currently a project director managing 'large' budget for DND. She has also been out of highschool for 20+ years, and despite numerous practice tests and apps, did not meet the cut. 

My question is..is this the end? I understand the value of a standardized test, but I do believe the CAF is mission out on someone who forgot how to divide a fraction or could not put the cube with right circles back together. 

It got me wondering on a hypothetical...Let's say we have a civilian, he's a Radiologist. We're in critical short supply. Because this guy so specialized in his medical fields, he's forgotten some basic math rules too. Does the CAF forgo an opportunity to hire someone like that because of CFAT? 

Thanks for any info, its been nearly 30 years since I wrote mine, and I'm 100% certain I could not pass it 'cold' now.


----------



## mapledonutmouth

GINge! said:
			
		

> Hey Fellas, first time over in this part of Army.ca. Got a friend who wrote her CFAT today. She was trying for PSEL. Did not meet the cut off. That's the short version.
> 
> A bit more info - she has graduated with BA in Psych, was a former PRes Security Officer (Lt), passed FORCE, E-E-E French profile, has held TS clearance, and currently a project director managing 'large' budget for DND. She has also been out of highschool for 20+ years, and despite numerous practice tests and apps, did not meet the cut.
> 
> My question is..is this the end? I understand the value of a standardized test, but I do believe the CAF is mission out on someone who forgot how to divide a fraction or could not put the cube with right circles back together.
> 
> It got me wondering on a hypothetical...Let's say we have a civilian, he's a Radiologist. We're in critical short supply. Because this guy so specialized in his medical fields, he's forgotten some basic math rules too. Does the CAF forgo an opportunity to hire someone like that because of CFAT?
> 
> Thanks for any info, its been nearly 30 years since I wrote mine, and I'm 100% certain I could not pass it 'cold' now.



So her CFAT result wasn't high enough for her trade? I pulled this from the Forces website.

REWRITES

Rewriting the test is only allowed in certain conditions. If you do not pass, you can request to rewrite the test after 3 months. You will only be allowed to write the test a third time if you provide proof that you are registered in a college or university program, and that you are passing courses without difficulty.


----------



## DirtOnMyBoots

When I saw the topic of this thread I visibly winced. I got to my CFAT 15 minutes early and had a 5 minute lecture on the importance of being 30 minutes early. With that said cancelling is one thing, completely missing it is another. While it probably didn't scream "responsible" to reschedule you certainly won't have any black marks on your application for doing so.


----------



## MikeApplying

Hi all, sorry for the CFAT question..I'm sure you get far too many as it is. I write the CFAT next Tuesday and I have spent the last 6 weeks or so preparing and reviewing math. I am confident about my ability to solve the sorts of problems on the CFAT problem solving section. But I am worried about the time constraints. I'm not that quick at math and I'm a lot slower reading off a computer screen than from paper. Are the questions long or require a lot of arithmetic? Or are the questions generally similar in format to the practice test? The practice test questions are usually a sentence or two in length, and I think I can handle that in under a minute but nothing more. Note that I am not asking anything about the content of questions so I hope I'm not breaking any rules. Any reassurance would help me get over some pre-test nerves. Thanks!


----------



## mariomike

MikeApplying said:
			
		

> Hi all, sorry for the CFAT question..



For reference, perhaps,

Length of CFAT questions

will be merged with,

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0
36 pages.

See also,

CFAT Math Specific Questions (Merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/26449.50
8 pages.

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Loachman

MikeApplying said:
			
		

> Hi all, sorry for the CFAT question..I'm sure you get far too many as it is.



Yes, as you can see - thirty-six pages in this thread alone, and more in the Math-Specific one.

Please take some time and explore existing threads. Start with the stickied ones at the top of each forum. They are stickied for a reason.


----------



## MikeApplying

First off, I cannot and will not tell you anything about the aptitude test itself, it would be a crime to do so. But I do want to share my experience preparing for the test. I was very nervous to write it, and I'm sure there are other people who, like me, are nervous test-takers and are feeling the same. 

I wrote the test yesterday and qualified for all the occupations I applied for. I achieved it by STUDYING. I hear many people say things about their approach and they often fall into one of two categories. There are the (i) "It's an aptitude test, there's no real way to prepare for it" sort of people and there are the (ii) "You shouldn't try to prepare it for it because then they won't get an accurate idea of how capable you are and you'll get offered a trade you can't handle" sort of people. IMHO these are both very wrong attitudes to take. It's an aptitude test, not an IQ test. Study.

That leads me to my next point - study materials. I looked at a lot of internet sources and apps and considered a few books, but there are three sources in particular that I believe helped me a lot. Number one is the book 501 Math Word Problems. It was definitely worth the 20 or so bucks I spent on it. Just search it on Amazon or something. This book will lead you through mathematical word problems that range in difficulty and complexity, and give a comprehensive set of answers to all the questions that not only tell you the right answer, but explain how to get there. Working through about 60-70% of this book before I wrote the test really helped me a lot to sharpen my problem solving skills. I'm a whiz at algebraic word problems now, where you're given a scenario and have to come up with an equation and solve to find the answer. Yet before, if you were to show me one of those problems I'd just shrug. For vocabulary I used an app called Vocabulary Builder by a company called Magoosh (for Android, I don't know if it's available for iPhone). The app gives you vocabulary flash cards and quizzes you until you get them all right, and moves you through a number of different difficulty levels. For spatial, I used an app called 3D Cubes. It's a really simple app (again, for Android) that gives you folded and unfolded cubes with different patterns and asks you to indicate whether the folded cube can be made from the unfolded pattern. I believe this app helped me to develop and strengthen my perception of spatial relationships. 

But it's not just about what you study, but how you study. Study consistently. Don't just sit down on Saturday afternoon and hit the books for five hours and then do nothing through the week. That won't cut it. Do an hour every day, it's much more effective.

Finally, one of the biggest things I learned you need to get good at to be successful is executional efficiency. What I mean is, just because you understand a problem doesn't mean you can quickly and efficiently solve it. For the CFAT, you're going to have to work quickly and efficiently. Admittedly, I focused too much on learning to recognize certain kinds of problems and solve them and not enough on solving them quickly. Don't just aim to sharpen your problem-solving skills, aim to gain speed an accuracy. If you're like me and you're not so good at math, this will be difficult. But it's very doable! You may surprise yourself with how much progress you make if you study consistently rather than in bouts.

Good luck to all those writing the test. Hopefully nothing I said here breaks any rules. Godspeed!


----------



## Ryan_T

I passed mine yrs ago.. if you have studied your problem solving and math, you shouldnt have to much of a problem. Get some good sleep the night before and try not to be nervous. Go in with confidence. I failed the 1st time from being to nervous. The 2nd time i passed. I had more confidence that i can do it.

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## Loachman

MikeApplying said:
			
		

> First off, I cannot and will not tell you anything about the aptitude test itself, it would be a crime to do so. But I do want to share my experience preparing for the test. I was very nervous to write it, and I'm sure there are other people who, like me, are nervous test-takers and are feeling the same.



I just added thirty-six pages to your thread, just to keep things all nice and neat and in one place 'n' all.

I kept the title from the other thread, though, to make it easier for all of the people who know where to look already.

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Loachman


----------



## MikeApplying

Ryan_T said:
			
		

> I passed mine yrs ago.. if you have studied your problem solving and math, you shouldnt have to much of a problem. Get some good sleep the night before and try not to be nervous. Go in with confidence. I failed the 1st time from being to nervous. The 2nd time i passed. I had more confidence that i can do it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk



Nerves can be a real problem. I was extremely nervous, I don't know how I managed to pass on the first attempt. People should realize that being too nervous can give you a serious short-term cognitive deficit and lead to failure. It doesn't mean you aren't capable, just means you need more confidence.


----------



## Ryan_T

MikeApplying said:
			
		

> Nerves can be a real problem. I was extremely nervous, I don't know how I managed to pass on the first attempt. People should realize that being too nervous can give you a serious short-term cognitive deficit and lead to failure. It doesn't mean you aren't capable, just means you need more confidence.


I agree. I had more confidence on my 2nd attempt. 

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## Eric Wang

How does the CFAT scoring work? I've selected 3 trades listed below, and only qualified for boatswain. The captain at the recruit centre said I bombed the English and the spatial part, but I did decent on the math part which boosted my overall mark up. I'm planning to apply to RMC in my grade 12 year (if I can get in) if I only qualified for boatswain, and not my 2 other selected trade. Does that mean I did horrible? And probably will have to take the CFAT again in order to go through the ROTP program?


----------



## George Wallace

Please READ the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  Thread and other CFAT related threads.

No need for yet another CFAT thread.

Topic Locked


----------



## da1root

Eric16 said:
			
		

> How does the CFAT scoring work? I've selected 3 trades listed below, and only qualified for boatswain. The captain at the recruit centre said I bombed the English and the spatial part, but I did decent on the math part which boosted my overall mark up. I'm planning to apply to RMC in my grade 12 year (if I can get in) if I only qualified for boatswain, and not my 2 other selected trade. Does that mean I did horrible? And probably will have to take the CFAT again in order to go through the ROTP program?



Being that you've selected 3 NCM trades and you were told that you only qualified for 1 of them, if you're trying to go ROTP you are going to have to write the CFAT again as Officer occupations require a higher CFAT score than most of the NCM occupations.


----------



## zodiac13

Hello All,

I just wrote the CFAT this morning and received a response within two hours. I am surprised at how quickly they got back to me. The bad news is I do not qualify for my chosen trade based on my results, which is ATIS tech. The trades I do qualify for, I have no interest in. Basically they are Infatry, Crewman, Boatswain, Medical Assistant, Mobile Support equipment, Operator, Combat Engineeer, Artillery, Int OP, Cook, and steward. 

I am trying to figure out where I went wrong. I left about half of the questions blank on the vocabulary part of the test as I marked them to go back to then ran out of time. I don't know if that worked against me or not. 

Also when I filled out the substance use form, I was completely honest and admitted to drug use that I did over ten years ago. Nothing major but things like shrooms and ecstacy. Did I screw myself by being this honest? I figure its better to be honest than to lie. 

The whole thing is a blow to the self esteem. I feel like I would be a good fit as an ATIS tech as I have been in the field of IT for over 10 years and am currently a network administrator. 

Anyway, just wanted to rant and get others feedback. 

Thanks,


----------



## Kat Stevens

Blank answers are always wrong. Best guess answers are 50/50. Fly through the ones you definitely know, go back and best guess the rest. A lot of vocabulary questions answer themselves if you break the word down into components. If you don't like the trades offered, wait a year and reapply, or take one as a foot in the door and attempt remaster later.


----------



## PMedMoe

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Blank answers are always wrong. Best guess answers are 50/50. Fly through the ones you definitely know, go back and best guess the rest. A lot of vocabulary questions answer themselves if you break the word down into components. If you don't like the trades offered, wait a year and reapply, or take one as a foot in the door and attempt remaster later.



Or go take an upgrading course (English) and ask for a rewrite.  I believe if you prove you have further educated yourself (course certificate/report/grade), they will grant you a rewrite.


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, zodiac13

Please read through this thread, into which I have merged yours. There is little that has not been answered herein.


----------



## CalifornianMoose

Hey fellow applicants,

Like many of you, I've been wondering about the various aspects of the application process. 

If you're waiting to take the CFAT, you're welcome to ask me what I did to pass. 
I qualified for all NCM and officer trades. 
It involved selectively tackling what I needed to review (algebra and spatial skills) while using time constraints during practice tests to simulate exam day. It sounds like a no-brainer, but maybe there is something useful I can offer you. Feel free to ask anytime.


----------



## Loachman

Your offer is most kind.

There are seventy-nine pages in this thread, however. Unless somebody has read through them, they should not be asking a question that has already been answered, possibly multiple times. That's why some of these threads are as long as they are.

If you discovered a new/unique method, please share with all.


----------



## Joe86

So I received the "Your application has been selected for further processing. Please contact the Canadian Forces Recruiting Detachment" email.  I emailed my local detachment and this is the email I got back in return.  

Mr. xxxx
You have expressed a desire to write the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) again.

Please note that the CAF is under no obligation to allow further attempts.  The onus is on you to report on the preparations you have made to successfully undertake another attempt so a request can be made on your behalf in the form of a waiver.
Info I require from you to justify this waiver is as follows:

a. substantiation / motivation for re-writing the CFAT again,
b. provide in chronological order your employment history and/or schooling/education since writing the first CFAT 08 July 2015 until the present date in the following format:

Activity / Start and End Time period / Full time or part time / Employer or Institution.

Note - Add in any times you were unemployed as well
c.  list the type of preparations and time devoted you have made to prepare such as aptitude practice sessions, tutoring, etc.  Include any further education completed (provide transcripts if not already provided).

You have already been briefed on the CAF re-test policy:
-              You may only attempt the test three (3) times; and
-              For a third (and final) attempt at the test, you must provide proof of additional mathematics or language courses completed since your previous attempt. You are responsible for the cost of any upgrading that is required.

Please note that the score on the latest CFAT attempt is the one that counts, even if it is lower than the first score
Please provide this information to me via this email address. Don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.


My problem is that I have never written the CFAT before.  It also states I have been briefed on the CAF re-test policy which I haven't. This is literally the first email from the CAF I have received that came from a real person.  I did apply in 2015, but I did not contact the recruitment center and did not write any test. I tried calling the office twice but got no answer, so I sent an email stating my concerns.  Has anyone else run into this before?


----------



## CalifornianMoose

Joe86 said:
			
		

> So I received the "Your application has been selected for further processing. Please contact the Canadian Forces Recruiting Detachment" email.  I emailed my local detachment and this is the email I got back in return...



As you've written, you've never taken the aptitude test before. This is the first email you've received from the CFRC. 

Considering these two points, it's just an error. If you've replied explaining your concerns, all you can do now is wait for a response. You're fine. Errors happen.


----------



## da1root

Joe86 said:
			
		

> My problem is that I have never written the CFAT before.  It also states I have been briefed on the CAF re-test policy which I haven't. This is literally the first email from the CAF I have received that came from a real person.  I did apply in 2015, but I did not contact the recruitment center and did not write any test. I tried calling the office twice but got no answer, so I sent an email stating my concerns.  Has anyone else run into this before?


I'm sending you a PM to deal with the issue further.


----------



## JMei001

Just wondering what the minimum aptitude score is per section for this trade


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mariomike

JMei001 said:
			
		

> Just wondering what the minimum aptitude score is per section for this trade



Medical Assistant - Reserve


			
				gQeline said:
			
		

> how high of a score would i need to get on the CFAT




_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of up to date information.


----------



## JMei001

Yeah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JMei001

When I finished my CFAT I was told my results would take up to 5 days to process and let me know, 2 weeks later (yesterday) I call the recruiting centre to follow up and the recruiter tells me I passed and qualified for my trade (med assist reserve), however I never received an email saying so, thoughts...? How did you find out you passed and qualified? I only received a letter with an attachment named 'Acceptance' informing me that I'd completed the first step.


----------



## LightFighter

Don't over think this, you passed and met the standard for the trade you wish to join. Good day. 

Also, with regards to your profile you have no rank, you are currently an applicant, not a recruit.


----------



## mariomike

LightFighter said:
			
		

> Also, with regards to your profile you have no rank, you are currently an applicant, not a recruit.



JMei001, you will become a Recruit the day you are sworn in.


----------



## JMei001

mariomike said:
			
		

> JMei001, you will become a Recruit the day you are sworn in.



I'm confused, when did I say I was a recruit??


----------



## mariomike

LightFighter said:
			
		

> Also, with regards to your profile you have no rank, you are currently an applicant, not a recruit.





			
				JMei001 said:
			
		

> I'm confused, when did I say I was a recruit??



http://milnet.ca/forums/members/96600


----------



## JMei001

Ya, light fighter said that, I never did, just asked why I didn't receive an email stating I qualified for my trade but a recruiter over the phone said so, just overthinking because this is something that means a lot to me!


----------



## mariomike

JMei001 said:
			
		

> Ya, light fighter said that, I never did,



Your Profile says that,

Rank: Recruit
http://milnet.ca/forums/members/96600


----------



## JMei001

Oh I see, I'll change that, didn't realize!! What are your thoughts about my post other than that though?! How did you find out about your CFAT results?


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

JMei001 said:
			
		

> Oh I see, I'll change that, didn't realize!! What are your thoughts about my post other than that though?! How did you find out about your CFAT results?



You've asked this in another thread already and have gotten answers, which is to contact your CFRC.


----------



## KRG001

CFAT scores are no longer relevant. As of a few weeks ago, the recruiting process, in all its wisdom, has decided that in the interest of signing up numbers, the CFAT score is no longer relevant but yet it will be administered. The way it works, lets say you have a degree and want to be an Officer in X regiment. You come in, write your name with a crayon and answer one question - wrong for that matter. The recruiter will then look at your failed CFAT, see that you have a degree and say "welcome to X regiment".


----------



## docssy

KRG001 said:
			
		

> CFAT scores are no longer relevant. As of a few weeks ago, the recruiting process, in all its wisdom, has decided that in the interest of signing up numbers, the CFAT score is no longer relevant but yet it will be administered. The way it works, lets say you have a degree and want to be an Officer in X regiment. You come in, write your name with a crayon and answer one question - wrong for that matter. The recruiter will then look at your failed CFAT, see that you have a degree and say "welcome to X regiment".



No, not entirely.

Your CFAT score (as abysmal as it may be) is used in the interview and selection processes as a factor of COMPETITIVENESS against other applicants. Given limited positions and more applicants, you may still find yourself off the short list.

Moral of the story - your choice to use crayons may still disqualify you. Feel free to eat them though, if it helps force you to use magic markers instead.


----------



## dapaterson

CFAT is only disregarded if (a) you're a skilled NCM applicant - that is, you have a diploma or certification relevant to your selected military occupation or (b) you're a DEO with one of the preferred degrees for your selected occupation.

If you're an unskilled applicant or ROTP applicant, CFAT is still used to qualify you for occupational choices.


----------



## wnhan

Hi all,

I'm not sure if the above post is serious or not. However, based upon my interactions with agents at my local CFRC, my personal research on army.ca, my personal research on CAF subreddit, and my personal research on other various internet sites, the CFAT score is never disregarded.

It was under my impression that both the CFAT and the TSD (Canadian Forces Trait Self Descriptive Personality Inventory Test) scores were both combined under different weights to produce an overall score in order to determine an applicant's eligibility for their selected trade(s). 

Once deemed eligible for their selected trade(s), they would then proceed along in the application process. Now, during the interview, the applicant would also be scored based upon their relevant work experiences to their trade, their education, their leadership experiences, etc. I know this because I saw my interviewing officer taking notes on my responses and then scoring me in each category without even attempting to hide the fact that he was scoring me.

The final overall score for applicants on the competition list, known formerly as the merit list, would be comprised of the CFAT, the TSD, and the interview (where I assume each would be given a different weighting). Please keep in mind, this is for the average applicant where there are no other further tests required such as in the case of pilots. 

Regards,
wnhan


----------



## sidemount

wnhan said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm not sure if the above post is serious or not. However, based upon my interactions with agents at my local CFRC, my personal research on army.ca, my personal research on CAF subreddit, and my personal research on other various internet sites, the CFAT score is never disregarded.
> 
> It was under my impression that both the CFAT and the TSD (Canadian Forces Trait Self Descriptive Personality Inventory Test) scores were both combined under different weights to produce an overall score in order to determine an applicant's eligibility for their selected trade(s).
> 
> Once deemed eligible for their selected trade(s), they would then proceed along in the application process. Now, during the interview, the applicant would also be scored based upon their relevant work experiences to their trade, their education, their leadership experiences, etc. I know this because I saw my interviewing officer taking notes on my responses and then scoring me in each category without even attempting to hide the fact that he was scoring me.
> 
> The final overall score for applicants on the competition list, known formerly as the merit list, would be comprised of the CFAT, the TSD, and the interview (where I assume each would be given a different weighting). Please keep in mind, this is for the average applicant where there are no other further tests required such as in the case of pilots.
> 
> Regards,
> wnhan


The post is not wrong. While the deo candidates do not have to pass the cfat to move onto selection, their scores are still taken into consideration and are still weighted the same. This is new as of maybe 4 weeks. 

In saying this, if you do not pass the cfat, do not expect to be competitive for an offer at all.



Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## da1root

Looking at the policy now, so this is the way it is.


All Regular Force CAF applicants are still required to write the CFAT test, even though it is not to be used for determining eligibility to some entry plans, the CFAT as a scoring criteria will continue to be used on the selection boards; and this could have an impact on the applicant's competitiveness.

In other words: The CFAT is *not* disregarded.  The CFAT continues to be combined with the TSD and Interview to provide an overall score to be used during the selection process.

The CFAT is not required to be "passed" for: (a) Regular Force DEO applicants; (b) Regular Force NCM applicants possessing diplomas that meet the requirements for the occupation as per NCM STEP requirements (i.e. semi-skilled applicants); (c) Regular Force NCM Skilled applicants.

While the above don't need to meet the minimum cut off score to move forward in the process, it is still a "competition".


----------



## Roger123

Just wondering if TSD stands for Time, Speed Distance? I dont remember doing this test during the CFAT testing. It was followed by some psychological, computer test/ questionnaire. I did come across various Time/Speed/Distance calculation problem sets at Aircrew Selection however.


----------



## mariomike

Roger123 said:
			
		

> Just wondering if TSD stands for Time, Speed Distance?



Canadian Forces Trait Self Descriptive Personality Inventory  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/109056.0
3 pages.


----------



## da1root

Seems I missed part of something that I need to clear up.



> Has there been a substantial change with the CFAT used WRT PRes recruiting?



To some degree, yes.
"Canadian Army PRes, Naval and RCAF Reserve Officers (DEO only) and foreign skilled applicants to the PRes are not required to write the CFAT upon enrolment.  If these members want to OT or CT they will be required to write the CFAT and that score will be used in their assessment.  RESO applicants will be required to meet the minimum CFAT cut-off."

While this may upset some, keep in mind what the CFAT is used to determine.  It is used to determine the likelihood that someone is going to pass their DP1 training.  If someone already has a degree or diploma in the category in which they are going to work than they have already passed their "DP1".  The CFAT is not used to determine if someone would be a good fit into the CAF, this is what the TSD and Interview are for.

Further the statement is that they're not required to write, it doesn't mean that they can't write it.  Reserve Units are being given control of their own recruiting, in many cases this has already happened, and for the ones that it hasn't it will happen soon.  CFRCs will continue to process the files and do medicals; but ultimately it's up to the PRes Units to decide who will join.  So in the point above of an applicant answering one question (wrong) in crayon, is up to the CO of the unit as to whether they will enroll that individual.  I don't know of many CO's that would indeed enroll that person.


----------



## wnhan

Hi,

I understand that the competitiveness of CFAT scores are relative to the scores of other applicants for the same trade. However, I was never given any indication of how well I scored during my application process. Based upon other applicants' knowledge and/or experiences, I was just wondering if someone could tell me if I scored "good/average/bad" on a very broad and generic level. I am applying for DEO as a Construction Engineering Officer.

Below, I have listed the MINIMUM scores which I believe I achieved in each section of the CFAT with great conservatism. I made notes immediately after finishing each section of the CFAT in order to estimate my own performance. These scores are reflective of the chance that I answered each question with 95% accuracy as I was confident in answering these questions. For example, for the "spatial" section I only answered 5 questions "correctly" based upon my opinion that my chosen answer was 95% correct. Therefore, out of a total of 15 questions for the "spatial" section, I had to guess the remaining 10 questions.

Verbal - 11/15
Spatial - 5/15
Math - 24/30
Minimum Total Score - 40/60 

Now, since each question had 4 options in which to select an answer, it must follow that if you guessed the answers at random, you had a 25% chance of guessing the answer correctly. As such, I have listed below the MOST LIKELY score that I received for the CFAT.

Verbal - 12/15 (forced to guess the answer of 4 questions) 
Spatial - 7/15 (forced to guess the answer of 10 questions)
Math - 25/30 (forced to guess the answer of 6 questions)
Most Likely Total Score - 44/60

Again, I'm just looking for some general answers concerning my CFAT performance although I understand that my performance is relative to those of others. I also asked to re-write the CFAT again as I did not properly prepare for the spatial section and the responding agent at the local CFRC said that I did not perform low enough to conduct a re-write. 

Kindest regards,
wnhan


----------



## da1root

Hello wnhan

So the short answer is that based purely alone on your CFAT no one can tell you how competitive your scores are; the CFAT score is combined with the TSD & Interview to give an overall score.  The overall score is what is used to select the most competitive individuals.  You would have to know how you performed on the TSD and in your Interview as well to determine your competitiveness.


----------



## Seek1995

Hi guys, my names Austin im 22 years old im a highschool dropout with a grade 10 education and apparently did VERY well on my CFAT. when i wrote my aptitude test there were about 25 of us. Although they cant tell you your score when we all handed our tests in at the the end the recruiter said to the other holy shit someone in here got almost a perfect score. someone in the class spoke up and said how did the rest of us do and the recruiter said for the most part average or slightly above. then when the recruiters pulled everybody aside they didnt tell me my score but told me that i did extremely well on my CFAT and that i am eligible for ANY position in the CF regardless of army,navy or air force. So im assuming im the one that scored almost perfect. I am applying for the infantry and am 3/4 through my application they have called all my references and am just waiting on the call for my physical. The recruiter again couldnt reveal my score however said with my score being so good the infantry is going to look at me before alot of other applicants. How important was this test i just did this well on.? i only have a grade 10 education and there were university engineers writing it with me i honestly suprised myself.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

Seek1995 said:
			
		

> Hi guys, my names Austin im 22 years old im a highschool dropout with a grade 10 education and apparently did VERY well on my CFAT. when i wrote my aptitude test there were about 25 of us. Although they cant tell you your score when we all handed our tests in at the the end the recruiter said to the other holy crap someone in here got almost a perfect score. someone in the class spoke up and said how did the rest of us do and the recruiter said for the most part average or slightly above. then when the recruiters pulled everybody aside they didnt tell me my score but told me that i did extremely well on my CFAT and that i am eligible for ANY position in the CF regardless of army,navy or air force. So im assuming im the one that scored almost perfect. I am applying for the infantry and am 3/4 through my application they have called all my references and am just waiting on the call for my physical. The recruiter again couldnt reveal my score however said with my score being so good the infantry is going to look at me before alot of other applicants. How important was this test i just did this well on.? i only have a grade 10 education and there were university engineers writing it with me i honestly suprised myself.



High school students tend to do well on the test because it relies on simple math without a calculator. Engineers can tell you the exact derivative of a pencil but ask them to add two numbers together without a calculator and they'll start to panic.


----------



## Gideons

Pre-flight said:
			
		

> High school students tend to do well on the test because it relies on simple math without a calculator. Engineers can tell you the exact derivative of a pencil but ask them to add two numbers together without a calculator and they'll start to panic.



Not sure about this... being in computer science I've had to take many advanced mathematics courses, and all of my high level calculus courses we're not allowed to use calculators. Yes, that includes finding derivatives and many more complex mathematical algorithms.


----------



## da1root

Seek1995 said:
			
		

> i am eligible for ANY position in the CF regardless of army,navy or air force.


You might want to clarify that statement with your Recruiter, you've stated your a HS drop out with a grade 10 education.  
There are several occupations in the CAF that require further education beyond a Grade 10 education.



			
				Pre-flight said:
			
		

> High school students tend to do well on the test because it relies on simple math without a calculator. Engineers can tell you the exact derivative of a pencil but ask them to add two numbers together without a calculator and they'll start to panic.


This is very accurate, not true for everyone taking the CFAT, but I'd say those at advanced levels of education who don't prepare for the CFAT suffer for it...  
The CFAT is designed for a Grade 10 education and it determines a persons likelihood of successfully completing their DP1.  When I wrote my CFAT many moons ago, I was in my OAC year and did extremely well on the aptitude test.  As long as I meed the educational requirements of the occupation I qualify to be any occupation in the CAF, NCM or Officer.  However if I wrote it today, and I'm a Senior NCO with University Education I would not perform near as well (to the point I did a practice test a couple weeks ago and bombed it... I didn't even score well enough to be the occupation I am now).



			
				Seek1995 said:
			
		

> How important was this test i just did this well on.?



If you spend some time reviewing this thread you'll find that the CFAT is part of the score that determines how competitive your application is.  The overall score is based on your CFAT, TSD and Interview (occupations that require further testing also take those tests into account).


----------



## Kerosen

Seek1995 said:
			
		

> i am eligible for ANY position in the CF regardless of army,navy or air force.



Hi, i did my CFAT in march, and after the test the recruiter told me as well that i can apply on any job in the Canadian Forces (i'm almost finish my degree in education) except for the military police and i don't really understand why. But at the interview, after all is finish we talk together and the captain told me my score : she said i performed well and the score was: 10/10 for the first part language did mine in french, spatial ability 8/15, math- problem solving 15/30 (the 2 last questions didn't have time to respond), she told the good way is not to skip questions, answer something but don't skip.

So i don't know  what is a very well performance or a just well performance, comparing...


----------



## carpeboi

Kerosen said:
			
		

> Hi, i did my CFAT in march, and after the test the recruiter told me as well that i can apply on any job in the Canadian Forces (i'm almost finish my degree in education) except for the military police and i don't really understand why. But at the interview, after all is finish we talk together and the captain told me my score : she said i performed well and the score was: 10/10 for the first part language did mine in french, spatial ability 8/15, math- problem solving 15/30 (the 2 last questions didn't have time to respond), she told the good way is not to skip questions, answer something but don't skip.
> 
> So i don't know  what is a very well performance or a just well performance, comparing...



First for the MP trade you need to have a specific degrees to go in. For example in Quebec you need a 3 years course name technique policière. The minimum score you need to reach  to apply in any trade isn’t really high. Some trade have a rude competition and a lot of applicant. So you really need to have over the minimal limite to be select in those trades. Take note, this is the same test for all the applicant. So your score can be really good for a trade and not for another. So trust your recruiter he knows if you scored good enough for the trade you chosen.
Sorry for the poor English. I hope this is not impossible to understand!


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## Kerosen

J'ai très bien compris ton explication ;-)


----------



## da1root

Kerosen said:
			
		

> 10/10 for the first part language did mine in french, spatial ability 8/15, math- problem solving 15/30


The scoring for the 3 sections is 15 (Verbal Skills), 15 (Spatial Ability) & 30 (Problem Solving)


----------



## Kerosen

Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> The scoring for the 3 sections is 15 (Verbal Skills), 15 (Spatial Ability) & 30 (Problem Solving)



Ya your are right its was 15/15 because there are 60 questions


----------



## Ironheader

Anyone know how my CFAT score was not enough for ACISS in 2015; but I reopened my application this month and am now eligible for ACISS?


----------



## da1root

Ironheader said:
			
		

> Anyone know how my CFAT score was not enough for ACISS in 2015; but I reopened my application this month and am now eligible for ACISS?


There is a minimum score to reach for certain occupations, so in 2015 your score would have meet the minimum (or you'd be required to rewrite it this year); but if your score in 2015 wasn't competitive based on the percentile you would have been told this, and this year it very well might be competitive.

If you were told that you didn't meet the cut-off in 2015 you should contact your CFRC and verify what is happening on your file as the minimum requirements haven't changed.  If could be that they're processing your file for a CFAT rewrite?  In any case your Recruiting Centre is the best source for information on this query.


----------



## AliTheAce

I'm planning on applying for a pilot slot in the RCAF, and in the meantime I'm practicing what I can to ensure I have a good score.

I'm using the CFAT Trainer app to practice, the full paid version. 

I have no problems whatsoever with vocabulary, and I usually get around 95% in the tests. Math I have no problems with either.


Main issue I'm having is with the spatial reasoning portions, namely folding the shapes from nets or nets from shapes. I'm having a really hard time visualizing it in my head, so is there anything I can do to practice and improve my score? I'm doing really badly in that section, around 60-70% on each run, which I feel like is really disappointing.

Since I am aiming for a pilot slot, I'm assuming the spatial reasoning portion will be more heavily weighted than some other occupations? 

What can I do to improve this ability? Main thing is I cannot seem to visualize how the cube will fold together and where the different faces will go when you do fold them.


----------



## da1root

Good Day AliTheAce,

Recruiters cannot give advise on how to improve your CFAT in regards to books, apps or anything like that since none are officially endorsed by the CAF.  There is 81 pages in this thread and suggestions are made in regards to prepping for the CFAT through it...


----------



## lid

Did CFAT adjust difficulty from previous part?

Just did CFAT, verbal was disaster (really more difficult than GRE - graduate level for non-english speakers. I had IELTS 8.0 but still a completely failure). But after that, Spatial and Numberical were as easy as 8~10-year old elementary school quiz. Felt like CFAT adjusted difficulty from verbal part and made next two parts easy? 

Or it's simply native high school language ability exceeds graduate non-english speakers?


----------



## Sub_Guy

AliTheAce said:
			
		

> I'm having a really hard time visualizing it in my head, so is there anything I can do to practice and improve my score? I'm doing really badly in that section, around 60-70% on each run, which I feel like is really disappointing.
> 
> What can I do to improve this ability? Main thing is I cannot seem to visualize how the cube will fold together and where the different faces will go when you do fold them.



I just redid my CFAT.

For the spatial portion of the test, I didn’t necessarily envision the whole shape folded together.  I looked at the shapes/shading and matched it to the folded shape.  I focused on matching the designs and not the folded shape.  It’d worked well for me.

I don’t know if that helps or not.

Good luck


----------



## BlueAngels14

I downloaded the "CFAT Trainer Lite - Canadian Forces Test Prep" on my phone and practiced on there and was successful on my CFAT.


----------



## AliTheAce

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> I just redid my CFAT.
> 
> For the spatial portion of the test, I didn’t necessarily envision the whole shape folded together.  I looked at the shapes/shading and matched it to the folded shape.  I focused on matching the designs and not the folded shape.  It’d worked well for me.
> 
> I don’t know if that helps or not.
> 
> Good luck



Sorry, could you elaborate on this technique a little bit? I'm trying to understand what you mean by this, do you just focus on the 3 sides that are visible? I feel like if I can nail this technique I can improve it a fair amount. On the CFAT Trainer app I'm getting around 80-90% now but I feel like that's attributed to me just knowing the answer from previous attempts.


----------



## Sub_Guy

It’s tough to explain.

It’s multiple choice.  I noticed that there were always two obviously wrong so I eliminated those immediately.  I then set out to eliminate the last incorrect shape.

Some of them are more obvious than others, which will allow you to bank time for the more challenging shapes. 

Every design has something that stands out.  

You sound like you are well prepared.  My scores on the CFAT trainer app varied from 60-100%, I wasn’t consistent at all.


----------



## Roger123

Since it's a multiple choice test, use a process of elimination. Usually the folded cube or shape will give you three visible sides. Fold the shape according to the sides shown for that answer and determine if it makes sense/ is a match. That is a test taking strategy I would recommend for time management.

For practice and developing your spatial ability, focus on the shape and fold it in your head. Try to imagine the folded shape rotated and from different perspectives. It will be tough at first but eventually the practice will shape you into thinking this way.



			
				AliTheAce said:
			
		

> I feel like if I can nail this technique I can improve it a fair amount. On the CFAT Trainer app I'm getting around 80-90% now but I feel like that's attributed to me just knowing the answer from previous attempts.



If you are repeating problem sets and have a good idea of the correct answer from previous attempts, that application is no longer helping you shape your spatial ability. It is akin to going through a "WHere's Waldo" book again and again. Eventually you're going to know where he is from previous attempts, which makes it difficult to unsee him. There are a host of shape folding problem sets on the net. 

Hope this helps and Happy Holidays!


----------



## Darkmachine

Hey everyone.

I recently completed my CFAT and I completed it with about an hour to spare and scored above average on all components, specifically the spatial component, I was told I got a perfect score on it. If anyone needs some help regarding how to prep for it, and how to study please feel free to DM me, I know there are sites and tutors that charge money etc, I definitely would want no money for any of this, I am more than happy to help anyone for free that requires assistance or tutoring. Feel free to dm me


----------



## winds_13

Call me impressed, you must be a savant if you managed to ace a 60-minute test with an hour to spare


----------



## rnkelly

Boom roasted.


----------



## Darkmachine

winds_13 said:
			
		

> Call me impressed, you must be a savant if you managed to ace a 60-minute test with an hour to spare



Not sure what you are trying to get at? The test was 1.5 hours, that was the allotted time given to us. Not sure the objective of your response when I am offering to assist people that need assistance? Does your response offer any value? Not really - so I'm not sure why you took the time make a smart ass remark, insinuating that I'm lying. Please, refrain from childish remarks, especially when someone is offering to help individuals seeking help. Unless you are willing to do the same, please abstain from making such remarks. For your information sir, we were given 1.5 hours, test was started at 12pm, we were given until 1:30pm to complete the test. Thank you for your reply though.


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

rnkelly said:
			
		

> Boom roasted.



Creed, your teeth called, your breath stinks. Boom. Roasted.


----------



## Darkmachine

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Creed, your teeth called, your breath stinks. Boom. Roasted.



I'm not sure why he made that "roasted" post. It's so childish. I can promise you we started the test at 12pm and were given till 1:30pm, I did google right now CFAT test time and it even says 45mins on some sites, but for sure we were given 1.5 hours, he can feel free to contact Toronto Detachment and ask how much time we were given on January 15th? I am only trying to give assistance, and don't even want anything for it and right away I get attacked, especially on the computer. This is what kills me about today's society, here we are on the Canadian Armed Forces forums, where we are supposed to be working towards becoming soldiers, or are already soldiers - protecting our people, country etc, and working together, and I get attacked for offering assistance. I wonder if these guys even did the test themselves or are a part of the CAF. All I'm trying to do is help my fellow friends on here that want help, and there are people that want help, just as I want help in other aspects. Ah well, it is what it is I guess.

Mod edit: removal of name.


----------



## Scott

Right guys, back on track, please.

Staff


----------



## Darkmachine

Scott said:
			
		

> Right guys, back on track, please.
> 
> Staff



My sincerest apologies, and extremely stupid and amateur of me to compromise personal information, I should know better. Warning acknowledged.


----------



## jofafa

Just a question about the CFAT, if someome is already in the reg Force in trade X, re writes the CFAT test but scores LOWER than the minimum trade requirement, does he have to OT?

Thanks


----------



## knawktwice

hey im sorry if this has been asked multiple times in this thread, but, I wrote my aptitude test twice in 2007. after speaking with the pso a couple weeks ago he informed me I would have to upgrade highschool credits in order to rewrite the CFAT now. its been 10 years. wondering if anyone has been able to rewrite after that long without upgrading? Thanks a lot!


----------



## da1root

jofafa said:
			
		

> Just a question about the CFAT, if someome is already in the reg Force in trade X, re writes the CFAT test but scores LOWER than the minimum trade requirement, does he have to OT?
> 
> Thanks


I have never heard of that happening.  The CFAT is really geared towards NCM Occupations and really it's in place to determine whether you will pass the QL3/DP1 course.  If you've already done that I don't see why the CAF would force you to OT...



			
				knawktwice said:
			
		

> hey im sorry if this has been asked multiple times in this thread, but, I wrote my aptitude test twice in 2007. after speaking with the pso a couple weeks ago he informed me I would have to upgrade highschool credits in order to rewrite the CFAT now. its been 10 years. wondering if anyone has been able to rewrite after that long without upgrading? Thanks a lot!


Generally a third attempt at the CFAT is only given if you can prove that you've done academic upgrading.  Anything past a 1st attempt at the CFAT is up to the discretion of the PSO in the CFRC's as they're the ones who approve the CFAT Waiver.  A failed third attempt is the last attempt at the CFAT, there is no 4th attempt so that is why normally only those that have done academic upgrading are allowed to do the test a 3rd time.


----------



## Loachman

knawktwice said:
			
		

> hey im sorry if this has been asked multiple times in this thread, but, I wrote my aptitude test twice in 2007. after speaking with the pso a couple weeks ago he informed me I would have to upgrade highschool credits in order to rewrite the CFAT now. its been 10 years. wondering if anyone has been able to rewrite after that long without upgrading? Thanks a lot!



Please capitalize where appropriate in future. You used to do that.

Thanks.


----------



## knawktwice

Ack


----------



## Smitts77

Hi Guys,

I contacted my local recruiting center last week to give them an update on setting up a 3rd CFAT attempt for infantry officer. I have a BA degree but never hit the mark for officer level. I was told that there have been “policy changes” and to apply for infantry officer again. Does anybody know what these policy changes are? This is a game changer for those with degrees who didn’t hit the officer mark on the CFAT.


----------



## sidemount

IIRC the new policy is that DEO applicants don't need to pass the CFAT. Regardless of their score, the file is processed and sent to selections (after the regular interview, medical, etc). 

However I wouldn't expect to have a competitive file without a passing CFAT score.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Seanadams

dapaterson said:
			
		

> CFAT is only disregarded if (a) you're a skilled NCM applicant - that is, you have a diploma or certification relevant to your selected military occupation or (b) you're a DEO with one of the preferred degrees for your selected occupation.
> 
> If you're an unskilled applicant or ROTP applicant, CFAT is still used to qualify you for occupational choices.




Can anyone confirm this ? I have had a PLAR approved for my trade and im wondering if my CFAT score is worth another look as my mcc said it was average. On the other hand.. If it's not being looked at since I have training in my trade..


----------



## noahjsc

So I did my CFAT and I passed for all my trades that I applied for(Int O,Log O, Armor O). Though i'm just curious on the opinions on the verbal section on the test. As the questions don't really give you a way to figure out the meaning of a word like you would get in school test. So it mostly comes down to simple knowledge of the language your test is in. I remember a question where the word on it was so ridiculous. That I decided to write it down and memorize it if I finished early. Just so i could search it up in a dictionary. It wasn't even in Websters dictionary and I had to google it. The word was something that you could not derive from other languages or latin or anything easily. As far as I know unless you compete in spelling bee's you would not know what the word is. Have any of you guys gotten questions that hard on the verbal? Do you think its reasonable? The only purpose i think a question like that would be to see how long you do it. E.g. does applicant take too long on a question that is clearly impossible.


----------



## JP4422

noahjsc said:
			
		

> So I did my CFAT and I passed for all my trades that I applied for(Int O,Log O, Armor O). Though i'm just curious on the opinions on the verbal section on the test. As the questions don't really give you a way to figure out the meaning of a word like you would get in school test. So it mostly comes down to simple knowledge of the language your test is in. I remember a question where the word on it was so ridiculous. That I decided to write it down and memorize it if I finished early. Just so i could search it up in a dictionary. It wasn't even in Websters dictionary and I had to google it. The word was something that you could not derive from other languages or latin or anything easily. As far as I know unless you compete in spelling bee's you would not know what the word is. Have any of you guys gotten questions that hard on the verbal? Do you think its reasonable? The only purpose i think a question like that would be to see how long you do it. E.g. does applicant take too long on a question that is clearly impossible.



There is an actual strategy to answering questions like that. However I would like to remind you that you are not supposed to discuss the content of what is actually in your CFAT.


----------



## LegioXEquestris

noahjsc said:
			
		

> So I did my CFAT and I passed for all my trades that I applied for(Int O,Log O, Armor O). Though i'm just curious on the opinions on the verbal section on the test. As the questions don't really give you a way to figure out the meaning of a word like you would get in school test. So it mostly comes down to simple knowledge of the language your test is in. I remember a question where the word on it was so ridiculous. That I decided to write it down and memorize it if I finished early. Just so i could search it up in a dictionary. It wasn't even in Websters dictionary and I had to google it. The word was something that you could not derive from other languages or latin or anything easily. As far as I know unless you compete in spelling bee's you would not know what the word is. Have any of you guys gotten questions that hard on the verbal? Do you think its reasonable? The only purpose i think a question like that would be to see how long you do it. E.g. does applicant take too long on a question that is clearly impossible.



The verbal section is not easy, nor is it meant to be. They don't expect everybody to even finish, let alone get them all right. 

Having said, the words that appear on the test are real, and are not meant to be "impossible" at all. It's meant to test your vocabulary, and there are no trick questions. The verbal section on some other standardised tests are even more difficult e.g GRE.


----------



## da1root

JP4422 said:
			
		

> There is an actual strategy to answering questions like that. However I would like to remind you that you are not supposed to discuss the content of what is actually in your CFAT.



I've reviewed the post a couple times before making my reply; please note that the poster did not actually discuss what was on the CFAT beyond what is already public knowledge.  It is public knowledge that the CFAT is designed up of three parts: (1) math; (2) spatial; and (3) verbal.  The poster didn't give the word that he was presented with as such didn't break any rules.



			
				Seanadams said:
			
		

> Can anyone confirm this ? I have had a PLAR approved for my trade and im wondering if my CFAT score is worth another look as my mcc said it was average. On the other hand.. If it's not being looked at since I have training in my trade..



The way that the policy is written is as follows:
(1) RegF DEO applicants that meet the Entry Standard requirements are not required to meet the minimum CFAT officer cut-off score requirement;
(2) RegF applications for SCP, OVOTP, officer applicants to M Plans and NCM SEELM applicants possessing the eligible/relevant degree are not required to meet the minimum CFAT cut-off score.  However UTPNCM, ROTP and NCM Applicants to M Plans will be required to meet the minimum prerequisite;
(3) PRes (Army, Navy & Air Forces) and foreign skilled applicants to the Reg or PRes are not required to writ the CFAT upon enrolment; 
(4) CFR nominees are not required to meet the CFAT officer cut-off score requirement;
(5) RegF/PRes applicants possessing diplomas that meet the requirements as per the NCM-STEP RegF Military Occupation List, and all Skilled applicants are not required to meet the minimum CFAT cut-off score for the desired NCM MOSID; and
(6) With the exception of the NCM-STEP MOSIDs and NCM Skilled applicants, the CFAT cut-off scores are still in effect for both in-service and out-service NCM occupations.

What this means is that unless you're joining an NCM occupation that has an NCM-STEP entry standard that you still have to complete & pass the CFAT; if you are applying for an occupation that has NCM-STEP entry standard you must have the diploma that matches the occupation (i.e. just having experience in the occupation doesn't cease the CFAT requirement).

Please note that although it's not required to "pass" the CFAT anymore (for the situations above) that it is still a competition / selection process.  What this means is that even though it's no longer required to meet the minimum cut-off score anymore, the following could apply: if only 10 positions are being hired this year and there are 20 people who've scored above the cut-off and 10 people who haven't scored above the cut-off, the reality is that those have haven't score above likely will not receive an offer of employment.


----------



## da1root

dapaterson said:
			
		

> CFAT is only disregarded if (a) you're a skilled NCM applicant - that is, you have a diploma or certification relevant to your selected military occupation or (b) you're a DEO with one of the preferred degrees for your selected occupation.
> 
> If you're an unskilled applicant or ROTP applicant, CFAT is still used to qualify you for occupational choices.



Above posts made me realize I may have missed this post.
Just to clarify a "skilled applicant" is someone who has prior military service in a given occupation.
If you have experience in an occupation but no military service you are a semi-skilled applicant.


----------



## DAS841

"Please note that although it's not required to "pass" the CFAT anymore (for the situations above) that it is still a competition / selection process.  What this means is that even though it's no longer required to meet the minimum cut-off score anymore, the following could apply: if only 10 positions are being hired this year and there are 20 people who've scored above the cut-off and 10 people who haven't scored above the cut-off, the reality is that those have haven't score above likely will not receive an offer of employment."


Hi Buck,

I understand the policies have changed in relation to passing the CFAT (Re: DEO Reg. Force etc.), but my question is why did they change the policy? The reason I ask is due to the fact a number of posts have indicated a file would not be competitive and more than likely would not receive an offer of employment when being compared to those who have passed the CFAT. 

Thank you


----------



## sucreus

Hi, sorry if this is silly or has been posted before...

The CFAT looks like it's super simple, is it actually?

I've done the one that's on the forces website as well as all the free stuff on that app that's meant to practice for it. It seems so simple. I'm not trying to be rude or cocky or anything, but is it really just basic vocab, painfully simple math, and spacial ability? Honestly, it seems like if you speak whatever language you're taking it in, have done middle school math, and roughly know how shapes work, it's a cake walk. This seems odd to me. I've heard/read stories about people failing or scoring low and I just don't understand how based off the test on the website and other practice questions I've done. 

If it is harder than the one on the forces website, does anyone have recommendations of resources that may actually help in preparing me?

Again, I apologize if this is sounding rude or anything, I don't mean it to be that way. I can't seem to find a phrasing that sounds nicer, oops. :-X 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## OceanBonfire

sucreus said:
			
		

> Hi, sorry if this is silly or has been posted before...
> 
> The CFAT looks like it's super simple, is it actually?
> 
> I've done the one that's on the forces website as well as all the free stuff on that app that's meant to practice for it. It seems so simple. I'm not trying to be rude or cocky or anything, but is it really just basic vocab, painfully simple math, and spacial ability? Honestly, it seems like if you speak whatever language you're taking it in, have done middle school math, and roughly know how shapes work, it's a cake walk. This seems odd to me. I've heard/read stories about people failing or scoring low and I just don't understand how based off the test on the website and other practice questions I've done.
> 
> If it is harder than the one on the forces website, does anyone have recommendations of resources that may actually help in preparing me?
> 
> Again, I apologize if this is sounding rude or anything, I don't mean it to be that way. I can't seem to find a phrasing that sounds nicer, oops. :-X
> 
> Thanks in advance.



It is what you stated: basic stuff you learned in high school. Note that not everyone's smart.


----------



## sidemount

The sample questions are just to show you the types of questions that are on it. The cfat has harder questions and is timed. The problem solving is based on grade 10 math.

Some find it easy, some do not. You will find out when you write it.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## DawsonR1995

This is a dream of mine to join the army, and I can’t let Math be the reason I’m not able to become a member.


----------



## mariomike

DawsonR1995 said:
			
		

> This is a dream of mine to join the army, and I can’t let Math be the reason I’m not able to become a member.



This may help,

"what type of math is on the aptitude test?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106898.0

"Math questions on the test":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30895.0/nowap.html

"CFAT Math Problem Solving":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91357.0

"Not the best at math..":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107441.0

"CFAT Math + other question":  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/80466.0

"How does one 'relearn' math?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26449.0

"I suck at math (CFAT worries)":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/65081.0

"If you need help in Math for the CFAT":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60947.0/nowap.html

?MATH?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/109763.0

etc...


----------



## Coombs438

Hey ! 
I write my CFAT test Monday and have using an aptitude prep app to help study. I did level 3 physicsl, math and chemistry in high school and got my diploma in Chemical Process Engineering Technology about a year ago. I applied for Combat Engineer NCM. 
Does anyone have any advice on what to focus on most when preparing ? And also do different trades need different scores to be considered good (pass/fail)


----------



## da1root

Coombs438 said:
			
		

> Do different trades need different scores to be considered good (pass/fail)


Yes, this is why there isn't a pass/fail to the CFAT - rather an aptitude cut off for the various occupations within the CAF.


----------



## jaysfan17

Good day everyone,

I thought I’d chime in on this thread because I think I can help a few out who may have failed their first or second CFAT. 

I haven’t seen too many people on here who have been given a 3rd rewrite. I just wanted to say that it is possible to get a third try because I have mine on Wednesday (May 2nd; and I say that in a non bragging way). While I’m anxious to get it done as I have been studying for 1-2 hrs a day, everyday since March 11th (when I was approved) and am much more prepared than I was the second time and more so than the first. Much of my preparation has included CDN forces approved CFAT practice books courtesy of the BPSO. To those of you who have failed the CFAT it’s okay, there’s no need to get overly stressed about it because you can get a second and third chance. 

On a final note, I don’t care if you’ve aced every math course in high school or university, but please do your research into what kinds of math you’ll see on the test and attempt a few complex math questions because it truly does help. I’m going into my third attempt with far more knowledge and strategies that I will use on the test than I had before. Thank you and good luck to everyone with your future testing.


----------



## da1root

luttrellfan said:
			
		

> I thought I’d chime in on this thread because I think I can help a few out who may have failed their first or second CFAT.
> 
> To those of you who have failed the CFAT it’s okay, there’s no need to get overly stressed about it because you can get a second and third chance.



There is no such thing as "failing" or "passing" the CFAT.  I have stated in the past and I will continue to do so, it's an aptitude test - it's to test your aptitude towards various occupations in the CAF.  It's not that you failed the test, it's that you didn't meet the threshold for any occupations that the CAF offers.

Best of luck on you rewrite.


----------



## jaysfan17

Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> There is no such thing as "failing" or "passing" the CFAT.



I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Loachman

Interesting attitude, when communicating with an actual Recruiter...

I await your tales of similar statements to DS on your courses should you pass attain the necessary score for your chosen occupation(s) and make it in.


----------



## jaysfan17

Loachman said:
			
		

> Interesting attitude, when communicating with an actual Recruiter...
> 
> I await your tales of similar statements to DS on your courses should you pass attain the necessary score for your chosen occupation(s) and make it in.



I see where you're coming from Loachman. I guess with the past few years of going through this process of studying and attempting the CFAT(s) I've formed a different opinion on how I view the test than other people. I didn't mean any disrespect with my reply to Buck_HRA I just see it differently.

Take care.


----------



## Loachman

Roger, and, yes, I understood.

The concept of "Pass" and "Fail", in this situation, will vary with the points of view of different people. To the applicant who does not attain the required score for his/her desired occupation(s), or even for entry, "fail" is a natural term to use, as is "pass" for successful applicants. I would not call that interpretation wrong.

The Recruiter's  - and CF's - point of view has already been explained.

The vision of a Recruit telling an Instructor "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree", however, was most amusing.

In any case, I hope that you succeeded this time around.


----------



## lilshuga

Hi everyone. 
I had a CFAT scheduled for a date, and I missed it.

The email they sent me for the CFAT appointment confirmation said,
"If you do not notify us beforehand that you are unable to attend the scheduled appointment, your file will be closed." 

Does this mean that my file is closed? 
If so, how can I re-open my file.

Thanks.


----------



## hambley92

milkytea said:
			
		

> The email they sent me for the CFAT appointment confirmation said,
> "If you do not notify us beforehand that you are unable to attend the scheduled appointment, your file will be closed."
> 
> Does this mean that my file is closed?
> If so, how can I re-open my file.



I hope this doesn't come across as rude, but the answer is pretty evident to me based on the email you quoted in your post. I'd say that the person to talk to in order to re-open your file would be whoever is at the recruiting centre that you were dealing with. Take the initiative and call them.


----------



## mariomike

milkytea said:
			
		

> If so, how can I re-open my file.



Re-opening file,
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+re-open+file&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gws_rd=ssl

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## da1root

milkytea said:
			
		

> Hi everyone.
> I had a CFAT scheduled for a date, and I missed it.
> 
> The email they sent me for the CFAT appointment confirmation said,
> "If you do not notify us beforehand that you are unable to attend the scheduled appointment, your file will be closed."
> 
> Does this mean that my file is closed?
> If so, how can I re-open my file.
> 
> Thanks.


Yes your file would have been closed if you were a no show and didn't inform them that you couldn't make the appointment.  The CFRC's are very busy with testing and only so many seats are available per test; so when someone doesn't show up without notifying the CFRC their file is closed.

To reopen your file you are going to have to get in touch with your CFRC (email, phone or in person) and ask them to reopen your file and you will have to wait for a new testing date.


----------



## stellarpanther1

Are required CFAT scores the same for the Reg Force?  If a person joins the Reserves in a particular trade and later wants to CT to the Reg force in the same MOSID, will they be required to re-write the CFAT?


----------



## da1root

stellarpanther1 said:
			
		

> Are required CFAT scores the same for the Reg Force?  If a person joins the Reserves in a particular trade and later wants to CT to the Reg force in the same MOSID, will they be required to re-write the CFAT?


The CFAT Occupation Generator doesn't make a distinction between Reg & PRes.  The only difference is Language & NCM vs Officer.
I've never heard of someone who is CT'ing to the same occupation having to rewrite a CFAT and I've processed a good number of CT's through the years.

This is not gospel; I'm not a PSO/TDO - someone in one of those occupations might have more insight than I do.


----------



## Shanny_deee

Hey all! Its my first time posting, I am in the application process for the Navy. I took the CFAT twice, applying for Intelligence Officer but both times my score was not high enough. The first time round, I was given a list of other trades I was eligible for and the second time I was told, based on my scores I was only eligible for 2 trades. I am not sure if I bombed the 2nd time really bad, to the extent that I can only be considered for anything else.(I was super nervous) Also, they told me, that I can re-take the exam a third time but that I require to take a course. Does anybody know what the courses are? Are they taken with an outside institution, for example: University, college, or does the Forces have their own course? Im extremely confused about this process, if anyone can shed light on this for me, Thanks!


----------



## mariomike

Shanny_deee said:
			
		

> Also, they told me, that I can re-take the exam a third time but that I require to take a course.



You may find these discussions of interest,

CFAT - Third Time
https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&ei=8yUsW9cZhaKPBOelkNgB&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+cfat+%22third+time%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+cfat+%22third+time%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3...21565.26646.0.26945.7.7.0.0.0.0.102.553.6j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.wboMZuXWHoQ

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date, information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## jaqen

Just had and passed CFAT today and it was harder than expected even after reading the forums.


----------



## Schwartzie55

Jaqen, you shouldn’t be writing about content of the CFAT. You took an oath just before writing it, it’s confidential.


----------



## lajunyeup

I think it's fine. Jaqen didn't write about any contents of the CFAT. It may be a concern for recruiters if he wrote about the vocabulary in the exam or the type of math questions (which already are given in the armed forces recruiting website).


----------



## da1root

What was written is fine.
You cannot give examples of the questions.  
And while there are apps and examples out there, they are examples not the actual material.

This is a non-issue.


----------



## FutureSoldier92

I recently completed my CAF aptitude test last Monday, July 16, 2018.

For those wondering, the actual aptitude test was much more difficult than the samples provided (as stated right on the practice aptitude test). The sample is simply there to give you an idea about the structure of the exam, not the actual difficulty level (so keep this in mind when preparing).

In regards to the pass/fail questions I've read regarding the aptitude test, the Sergeant I spoke with following completion of the aptitude test informed me that the test is normalized and your score is placed on a bell curve. What this means is that your raw score DOESN'T mean anything, but it is compared to the overall average of every applicant to the Canadian Armed Forces. Thus, the average is in the middle of the bell curve, and given the designation as the 50th %ile. This means that you are right in the middle of the spread (50% of people scored higher, 50% scored lower). So in that sense, there is no "pass or fail". However, your normalized score will have an impact on a variety of factors. Firstly, if you score significantly lower, your application will be less competitive compared to your peers who scored higher overall. Additionally, certain occupations require specified values. If you are lower than the designated value, you will not be eligible for the occupation you applied for.

This was my understanding of it anyway. Hopefully that makes sense and clears things up for some of you.

Best of luck, everyone. Study hard and hopefully i'll see you at BMQ in the months to come.

Cheers,

B


----------



## MPC

Did my CFAT today and I qualified for all NCM positions and also for Officer.

I didn't expect that.. I'm a 32 y/o mom and my grade 10 math is way behind me. But I did study. I took the test in English and it's not my first language (French is) but still scored an "Above Average" for verbal skills. 

Overall, the test was somewhat challenging. Some questions are much harder than others. If you're still wondering, the practice test is a good indicator of the type of questions you might encounter. Don't skip any, if you're not sure just pick something.

Also only 3 people including myself got to do their medical afterward.. Which means that only 3 of us (we were 9 total) successfully passed. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## da1root

MPC said:
			
		

> Also only 3 people including myself got to do their medical afterward.. Which means that only 3 of us (we were 9 total) successfully passed.



That doesn't mean the other 6 didn't pass.  There are only so many people that can be processed by medical at a time.  There could have been other appointments on the schedule; or the people who didn't do their medical could have had other commitments making it so that they couldn't stay.  Keep in mind that not everyone does same day processing.

End State: to everyone on this board, don't get nervous based on that statement; however also don't get "over confident" thinking you'll "do fine".  If you want to join the CAF; prep for the CFAT - that's the biggest "hurdle" at getting in.


----------



## MPC

Oh but the MCpl said that only the applicants that would successfully complete the CFAT would go on to the next part (medical) right after. That's how we knew. Only 3 of us were left. I'm not saying that it works that way for every cfrc, that's just my own experience at that particular location.

 Your last statement is 100% right. People should prepare. I did study a lot before going in and that helped tremendously. 

Good luck everyone!


----------



## Schwartzie55

There is a CFAT Trining app that is really helpful. I believe you can get it through the App Store for about $7 or close to that. It reflects the CF sample but more difficult.


----------



## Jackal2018

Schwartzie55 said:
			
		

> There is a CFAT Trining app that is really helpful. I believe you can get it through the App Store for about $7 or close to that. It reflects the CF sample but more difficult.



I can vouch for this app.

It doesn't get everything exactly like the actual test, but it's much closer than anything else I've found online. Price was decent for what you get too.

I would say one of the most important things to be watchful for is the time remaining. Always check how much time you have because you could easily get lost in a single question and then have no time to answer the rest. 
You can always come back to a question, at least put any answer then come back to it if you have time after the others.


----------



## seanrea

Did a search on this topic and couldn't find a similar question/answer.

Can an applicant request accommodations for taking the test when they have a diagnosed learning disability?


----------



## kratz

seanrea said:
			
		

> Did a search on this topic and couldn't find a similar question/answer.
> 
> Can an applicant request accommodations for taking the test when they have a diagnosed learning disability?



Answer: No



			
				forces.gc.ca said:
			
		

> Occasionally, CF Recruiting staffs receive requests from applicants for testing accommodations outside of normal testing procedures. Examples of such requests might include the use of a calculator, to have additional time, to have the questions read to them aloud, or to have a learning assistant present to assist them. Unfortunately, such requests are not possible for two reasons:
> Altering the test administration for a specific candidate would make their percentile and the established cut-off scores (and comparisons with other applicants) invalid; and
> Altering the test administration for all respondents would substantially change what is measured by the test and require complete revision of the test items, percentiles and time limits.


----------



## Xylric

There is a way to adapt yourself to taking the test when you have a learning disability, as opposed to having the test adapted to meet your needs. Depending on the particulars of your learning disability, of course. For me the challenge was answering the questions _*as asked*_, since I have a tendency to rush. Pace yourself, and I don't think you'll have any trouble.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Xylric said:
			
		

> There is a way to adapt yourself to taking the test when you have a learning disability, as opposed to having the test adapted to meet your needs. Depending on the particulars of your learning disability, of course. For me the challenge was answering the questions _*as asked*_, since I have a tendency to rush. Pace yourself, and I don't think you'll have any trouble.



Exactly. There are far too many people using their struggles as an excuse in order to have an argument for their poor performance.
(NOTE: I’m in no way stating that in some instances a learning disability isn’t severe enough to warrant adjustments to their environment. What I AM stating, however, is that in some cases it’s an easy out to have others cater to them and it can’t be expected that everything will be altered to match each individual’s preference—we can’t keep lowering our baseline.) 

I very clearly have an undiagnosed learning disability. My struggles became most prevalent in high-school. This drew the attention of a few teachers. However, in speaking with specialists who frequented our school-board, it was explained that although I had to put in extreme effort to match even the average performance levels of most of the student body in certain areas, I had found a way to compensate for my problem areas. In short, I figured out a method that worked for me during my school years. I looked around and saw what I needed to aspire to. I didn’t expect anyone to come down and meet me at my level. 

That being said, there are certain jobs that I’ll just never be able to do and I accept that. I love the sciences, but I can’t process the subject matter. I’m desperately weak in maths—I understand enough to get by. It simply doesn’t click. I struggle with social situations. I have great difficulties with memorization and retaining specific facts. However, I have good research skills, good grasp of languages, and excel in the arts. I passed the CFAT and qualified for all the trades I was hoping for. Put the work in. If I can do it, anyone can. If one truly thinks they can’t perform at the necessary level, then perhaps they need to find an alternative career path.


----------



## Jiminito

I had the pleasure of writing the CFAT at the Denison Armoury on August 2nd. But my medic recruiting officer is at Moss Park. He said has not yet received my file back yet and it's been 2 weeks since I had written the test.  
Is there a way to contact Denison Armoury to find out what's happening with my file? They were supposed to send it back to Moss Park for processing since they don't deal with medic recruits, I don't suppose it'll take more than 2 weeks, or does it?


----------



## m9322

To start off, I qualified for the trades I want, so I'm more asking out of interest. I wasn't told specifically how well I did on the test, but when my mom asked (Im under 18 so I needed parental consent) the recruiting officer said that I qualified for all the trades. Qualifying for them all seems rather unlikely; what's the average amount to qualify for? Has anybody here qualified for all of them?


----------



## PMedMoe

m9322 said:
			
		

> To start off, I qualified for the trades I want, so I'm more asking out of interest. I wasn't told specifically how well I did on the test, but when my mom asked (Im under 18 so I needed parental consent) the recruiting officer said that I qualified for all the trades. Qualifying for them all seems rather unlikely; what's the average amount to qualify for? Has anybody here qualified for all of them?



Why would you doubt them?  When I originally did my CFAT (in '84), I also qualified for all trades.  The only trades closed to me were Combat Arms (no women allowed at that time) and Firefighter (due to my height).  Pretty sure when I redid the CFAT (as it is now) in 1996 or 1997, I still qualified for all trades.

 :dunno:


----------



## m9322

PMedMoe - I was just really shocked, as I didn't think I did THAT good. Nobody else who did the test at the same time did that well.


----------



## da1root

Jiminito said:
			
		

> I had the pleasure of writing the CFAT at the Denison Armoury on August 2nd. But my medic recruiting officer is at Moss Park. He said has not yet received my file back yet and it's been 2 weeks since I had written the test.
> Is there a way to contact Denison Armoury to find out what's happening with my file? They were supposed to send it back to Moss Park for processing since they don't deal with medic recruits, I don't suppose it'll take more than 2 weeks, or does it?



I would reach out to CFRC Toronto, although you didn't do your test at that location they will have access to your file to see where your file is currently at and can help in following up as necessary.



			
				m9322 said:
			
		

> PMedMoe - I was just really shocked, as I didn't think I did THAT good. Nobody else who did the test at the same time did that well.



It's not all that shocking; I wrote the CFAT at Age 18 (20+ years ago now) and qualified for all occupations as well.  The CFAT is designed for Grade 10 education and it measures your ability to pass the first qualification level for an occupation.  There's a reason why the CAF does not require Doctors for example to do the test (traditionally they did not qualify for their own occupation, let alone many other occupations, because of the amount of time since they were in high school).  It doesn't mean that you can "do" the job necessarily, it means that you demonstrate the aptitude to have the ability to pass the training.


----------



## Raffy

Hello, my friends. It's my first post in here so, I am not even sure is it going to be right place or even right question to ask about. I apologise for that.   
     So, not too long time ago I did my aptitude test at on of the Ontario RCs, and after finishing it, I got the list of the jobs I eligible for. There were 36 jobs total, and the recruiter told me, if I would have university degree, it would be many more jobs as an officer. So I though I could calculate approximate mark that I got(not even mark, but at least to know that I did well), if I will compare to amount of jobs you, guys, were offered. 
     And, finally, if anyone of you guys know how strong is an influence of aptitude test mark on your job preference? For example, If you have a good mark on aptitude, great high school marks, great  references, but have an issue with credit or ( like in my case, old DUI record), what is going to be decisive moment in calculation of "my pros and cons"? 
    I , again, apologise if my questions were not appropriate, and thank you in advance for constructive answers. Have a wonderful day.


----------



## cmpbllmchll

Raffy said:
			
		

> Hello, my friends. It's my first post in here so, I am not even sure is it going to be right place or even right question to ask about. I apologise for that.
> So, not too long time ago I did my aptitude test at on of the Ontario RCs, and after finishing it, I got the list of the jobs I eligible for. There were 36 jobs total, and the recruiter told me, if I would have university degree, it would be many more jobs as an officer. So I though I could calculate approximate mark that I got(not even mark, but at least to know that I did well), if I will compare to amount of jobs you, guys, were offered.
> And, finally, if anyone of you guys know how strong is an influence of aptitude test mark on your job preference? For example, If you have a good mark on aptitude, great high school marks, great  references, but have an issue with credit or ( like in my case, old DUI record), what is going to be decisive moment in calculation of "my pros and cons"?
> I , again, apologise if my questions were not appropriate, and thank you in advance for constructive answers. Have a wonderful day.



I don't believe there is a way to really calculate the mark of the aptitude test, its all selective to each individual. They take into account the CFAT test, the interview, previous job experience.. when selecting people for an offer. Having an old DUI may affect your chances. Once your on the Competition List they look at all of that as a total and choose people so if someone else has every thing they meet and more they are more likely to get picked over someone who has a good mark on the CFAT and a DUI. But considering it is an old charge they may not reference to that. Who knows. Its a strange system.


----------



## kratz

cmpbllmchll said:
			
		

> I don't believe. They take into account the CFAT test, the interview, previous job experience.. when selecting people for an offer. Recruiting looks at all of that as a total and select the best candidate at that time. *Who knows. Its a strange system*.



Buck_HRA works in recruiting and knows how the system works. Other members of the site have recent experience with the recruiting system as well.


----------



## Raffy

Thank you, guys, for replay. Hopefully that good Sir will notice my post. Also I learned from one of Buck_HRA's posts that there is  60% shortage in AF for AVS techs. Is it  actually good for me if I  applied for the red trade?


----------



## da1root

You receive an overall score on the Selection List based on your CFAT/TSD and your interview (your education is embedded in the interview score).  
This is the only thing that bases you for competition on the "Selection List"

While there is a score assigned to the CFAT & TSD; although some recruiters inform the scores I'm not sure why they do as it's a percentile score.  What that means is although your base score could put you in the 90 percentile this year, the exact same base score could leave you in the 80 percentile next year.  The base scores themselves don't really mean anything in of themselves, and I wouldn't try to determine what your score was.

An old DUI will affect your background (CRNC) check; you will know long before the Selection List whether an old DUI will affect the ability to join or not.  As long as it is on your file it will come back in the CRNC, at that time a panel will sit to determine whether you should be allowed the chance to enrol in the CAF.  If the board determines that the situation surrounding your DUI is too much of a risk with the occupations you're wishing to join you will be informed of this.



			
				Raffy said:
			
		

> Thank you, guys, for replay. Hopefully that good Sir will notice my post. Also I learned from one of Buck_HRA's posts that there is  60% shortage in AF for AVS techs. Is it  actually good for me if I  applied for the red trade?



When I say what percentage is remaining for an occupation, that doesn't mean it's in a shortage, it just means that's how many are still to be recruited this year.


----------



## Raffy

Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> You receive an overall score on the Selection List based on your CFAT/TSD and your interview (your education is embedded in the interview score).
> This is the only thing that bases you for competition on the "Selection List"
> 
> While there is a score assigned to the CFAT & TSD; although some recruiters inform the scores I'm not sure why they do as it's a percentile score.  What that means is although your base score could put you in the 90 percentile this year, the exact same base score could leave you in the 80 percentile next year.  The base scores themselves don't really mean anything in of themselves, and I wouldn't try to determine what your score was.
> 
> An old DUI will affect your background (CRNC) check; you will know long before the Selection List whether an old DUI will affect the ability to join or not.  As long as it is on your file it will come back in the CRNC, at that time a panel will sit to determine whether you should be allowed the chance to enrol in the CAF.  If the board determines that the situation surrounding your DUI is too much of a risk with the occupations you're wishing to join you will be informed of this.
> 
> When I say what percentage is remaining for an occupation, that doesn't mean it's in a shortage, it just means that's how many are still to be recruited this year.


 Your informative reply is Greatly appreciated!


----------



## Brianne

Just wondering if anyone has any insight as to why the CFAT has a new 5-10 buisness day wait period for results. 

My friend did his test a week before me, (he didn't pass sadly) but he got his results within 3hrs of the test. When I went to take my test, after they told us there was a new processing procedure and that we would get an email within 5-10 buisness days. Any info for why this is? 

He took his test Oct 2nd, and I took mine on Oct 11th

Thanks!!


----------



## steveT22

Hello, I was filling out the application for the Canadian Forces and was stuck on the education part where it wants Degree/Diploma Received. I'm currently in Uni, would I put down the degree i'm aiming for? Or would i select something like non-degree? I assume since it asks if you have graduated or not I would just put down the degree i'm going for. Lastly for CFAT scheduling, do they work out the times with you and adjust them if you need or are you set into one time that you have to make?


----------



## mariomike

steveT22 said:
			
		

> I was filling out the application for the Canadian Forces and was stuck on the education part where it wants Degree/Diploma Received. I'm currently in Uni, would I put down the degree i'm aiming for? Or would i select something like non-degree? I assume since it asks if you have graduated or not I would just put down the degree i'm going for.



Most of the advice I have read on here over the years is similar to this,



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Put what education you have now and then update it when necessary.



See also,

Level of education?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/104065.0
OP: "I'm applying online right now, but when it asks for my level of education i'm unsure of what to put."

etc...



			
				steveT22 said:
			
		

> Lastly for CFAT scheduling, do they work out the times with you and adjust them if you need or are you set into one time that you have to make?



Questions and answers regarding CFAT,

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) [MERGED]
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13076.0
90 pages.

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## overwatch

Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> You receive an overall score on the Selection List based on your CFAT/TSD and your interview (your education is embedded in the interview score).
> This is the only thing that bases you for competition on the "Selection List"
> 
> While there is a score assigned to the CFAT & TSD; although some recruiters inform the scores I'm not sure why they do as it's a percentile score.  What that means is although your base score could put you in the 90 percentile this year, the exact same base score could leave you in the 80 percentile next year.  The base scores themselves don't really mean anything in of themselves, and I wouldn't try to determine what your score was.
> 
> An old DUI will affect your background (CRNC) check; you will know long before the Selection List whether an old DUI will affect the ability to join or not.  As long as it is on your file it will come back in the CRNC, at that time a panel will sit to determine whether you should be allowed the chance to enrol in the CAF.  If the board determines that the situation surrounding your DUI is too much of a risk with the occupations you're wishing to join you will be informed of this.
> 
> When I say what percentage is remaining for an occupation, that doesn't mean it's in a shortage, it just means that's how many are still to be recruited this year.



Hey Buck,

Can you shed some light on the new ACS selection and it’s relation to the CFAT? I was told that they select you to come take the test after based on how high your CFAT score is but others have said that their file managers mentioned the CAF is prioritizing ROTP applicants.

Additionally what do you consider a high CFAT score for pilot/acso/aec trades?

Thanks


----------



## Bgeib96

hello, everyone was wondering if anyone has some information on the score or anything in the matter of maybe something to focus on for the cfat. as i write my test on monday and am hoping to be able to get the med tech trade i applied for.


thanks in advance


----------



## garb811

There are no secrets or specific topics to focus on at the last minute as the test covers a wide range of things. A sample is here if you haven't seen it yet:  https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/dnd-mdn/documents/jobs/20170906-preparing-for-aptitude-test.pdf


----------



## Tennisball

Can we retake our CFAT to get a higher score, even if we already qualified for our selected trades?

I qualified for Pilot but I feel my scores might not be high enough to get in.


----------



## Platitudinarian

Got selected for the CFAT for Jan. 31, coming up soon. checked out a grade 10 math textbook in the library and had a holy crap I don't remember anything moment so def. wanna study up for this. I hear it's supposed to be easy but no point taking it for granted and then having to wait another forever to retake it. 

Would be a big help having a partner for the academic study and even to hit the gym with to get ready for the PT, just reply here. Much appreciated.


----------



## da1root

overwatch said:
			
		

> Hey Buck,
> 
> Can you shed some light on the new ACS selection and it’s relation to the CFAT? I was told that they select you to come take the test after based on how high your CFAT score is but others have said that their file managers mentioned the CAF is prioritizing ROTP applicants.
> 
> Additionally what do you consider a high CFAT score for pilot/acso/aec trades?
> 
> Thanks



Sorry I can not shed light on that query, it's outside my knowledge base.  Actual scores of the "targets" for the CFAT are considered Protected information and I cannot give you an answer as to what is a "high score".



			
				Tennisball said:
			
		

> Can we retake our CFAT to get a higher score, even if we already qualified for our selected trades?
> 
> I qualified for Pilot but I feel my scores might not be high enough to get in.



Asked & answered: https://navy.ca/forums/threads/107773/post-1556200.html#msg1556200
Please do not double post your queries.  While there could be a delay in my response time (much of my time away is due to being at recruiting events, being on course or simply being on leave) but I will always answer.


----------



## durran3

Hey guys hope all is well

I gave the CFAT earlier in January and was told that I passed and qualified for a DEO. 

I applied for Pilot and ACSO and currently undergoing medical (needed a few things from my family doctor). When I went for the Interview the Officer doing the interview said that even though my CFAT score was _'Above Average'_ It was still on the lower end and that It would be hard for me to compete with other officers who would be applying for the same role as me.

He mentioned that ALL officer roles are extremely competitive whether I applied for Intelligence officer, logistics, ACSO or anything and that It would be close to impossible for me to become an officer with my current CFAT Score even though I passed for DEO. He said that I can get into any NCM role and told me to consider going the NCM route.

I just wanted to know from anyone that was in recruiting whether I should stick to DEO and apply for an officer anyways or take the recruiters word and apply NCM


----------



## mariomike

durran3 said:
			
		

> the Officer doing the interview



I ( a non-Recruiter ) would seriously consider his advice, as he is the one who knows you, and your file, better than anyone here.


----------



## Brucewillis

I think you should do whatever you can see yourself doing in the long run because both options pose their own challenges. I don’t think the NCM trades are the easy way out and you should do whatever you see yourself taking pride in.


----------



## OceanBonfire

I'll give you my CFAT score so you can make a decision: 49/60.

I got an offer for one of the 30-or-so spots in my chosen occupation against thousands of applicants.


----------



## durran3

Unfortunately the recruiter didn't give me my grade - I kept asking for it but he said its confidential


----------



## TechCrmn

durran3 said:
			
		

> Hey guys hope all is well
> 
> I gave the CFAT earlier in January and was told that I passed and qualified for a DEO.
> 
> I applied for Pilot and ACSO and currently undergoing medical (needed a few things from my family doctor). When I went for the Interview the Officer doing the interview said that even though my CFAT score was _'Above Average'_ It was still on the lower end and that It would be hard for me to compete with other officers who would be applying for the same role as me.
> 
> He mentioned that ALL officer roles are extremely competitive whether I applied for Intelligence officer, logistics, ACSO or anything and that It would be close to impossible for me to become an officer with my current CFAT Score even though I passed for DEO. He said that I can get into any NCM role and told me to consider going the NCM route.
> 
> I just wanted to know from anyone that was in recruiting whether I should stick to DEO and apply for an officer anyways or take the recruiters word and apply NCM



I am not a recruiter but I have worked at a school and met many new recruits who settled for a trade they didn't initially want and soon after were trying to leave their current trade for their original choice or another more appealing trade, this transition process can be difficult at best once enrolled. 

My advice to you would be to apply for Pilot or ACSO if that's what you really want and you have time to wait a bit if you are not selected right away. Keep in mind that although you may not be the most competitive, you are still eligible, and right now the forces is in dire need of both Pilots and ACSOs so who knows. If waiting is not a luxury you have, then I would take the recruiters advice and join as an NCM as this is probably the quickest way into the forces. 

Keep in mind that a military career is long, 25 years minimum to get a full pension, therefore waiting an extra 6 months to get into a trade that you want and will enjoy for your entire career is hardly a setback. Even if you hold out and don't get what you want, at least you can say you tried and then proceed with the NCM route. It is possible to change trades and become an officer once enrolled but this can take some time and is not a guarantee. Personally, if I had a degree I would surely attempt to enroll as an officer in the trades I wanted before accepting the NCM route, unless of course there was an NCM trade you specifically wanted or if you are not interested in a leadership/management role. If you have any questions about specific Officer / NCM trades, just ask and I'm sure there's lots of people here that can answer your questions.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Pusser

TechCrmn said:
			
		

> Keep in mind that a military career is long, 25 years minimum to get a *full pension*,



Be careful with the terms you use.  A "full pension" is not defined anywhere in the appropriate documents.  Any pension that has not been reduced (e.g. due to breaking terms of service, marital breakup) could be described as a "full pension" as you would get everything you are entitled to based on the formula:  2% X years of service X average of best five years" salary.  What I suspect you really meant was that should be entitled to an "immediate unreduced annuity" after 25 years, meaning you could start collecting a pension at that point (prior to that, you would have to take a deferred annuity or a return of contributions).  To maximise your pension, you need to serve at least 35 years.


----------



## TechCrmn

Pusser said:
			
		

> Be careful with the terms you use.  A "full pension" is not defined anywhere in the appropriate documents.  Any pension that has not been reduced (e.g. due to breaking terms of service, marital breakup) could be described as a "full pension" as you would get everything you are entitled to based on the formula:  2% X years of service X average of best five years" salary.  What I suspect you really meant was that should be entitled to an "immediate unreduced annuity" after 25 years, meaning you could start collecting a pension at that point (prior to that, you would have to take a deferred annuity or a return of contributions).  To maximise your pension, you need to serve at least 35 years.



The point of mentioning the pension was just to convey to the OP that that under normal circumstances a person expecting to make a career in the military would serve at least a 25 year term under the current contracts before they would receive a pension; and therefore any decisions made prior to joining related to trade choice shouldn't be taken lightly as they could potentially be spending that amount of time in the trade they choose to accept. 

The OP is asking advice on what they should do with respect to trade choice based on the options given by the recruiter, not about pensions. Although the information you provided is certainly correct, it is probably not important to the OP at this point.


----------



## mariomike

TechCrmn said:
			
		

> The OP is asking advice on what they should do with respect to trade choice based on the options given by the recruiter, not about pensions.



As long as we are being technical, the OP is asking for advice from a Recruiter,



			
				durran3 said:
			
		

> I just wanted to know from anyone that was in recruiting whether I should stick to DEO and apply for an officer anyways or take the recruiters word and apply NCM


----------



## TechCrmn

mariomike said:
			
		

> As long as we are being technical, the OP is asking for advice from a Recruiter,



Yea I realize that, that is why the first five words of my initial post were "I am not a recruiter" lol what's your point?


----------



## da1root

mariomike said:
			
		

> I ( a non-Recruiter ) would seriously consider his advice, as he is the one who knows you, and your file, better than anyone here.



I (a recruiter) concur with mariomike's post.  Honestly the individual interviewing you has the best knowledge of your file.


----------



## Gorkavenko2011

Hi man 
I just applied for the infantry for reg.forces 
Just have a question.How hard was the CFAT for you? Because my problem is English I’m not from Canada, but my math skills is very good and special ability I think will ok to. My CFAT will in one week very worry about that.

Thank you 
Yevgeniy


----------



## winds_13

Gorkavenko2011 said:
			
		

> Hi man
> I just applied for the infantry for reg.forces
> Just have a question.How hard was the CFAT for you? Because my problem is English I’m not from Canada, but my math skills is very good and special ability I think will ok to. My CFAT will in one week very worry about that.
> 
> Thank you
> Yevgeniy



Yevgeniy, I recommend taking the new (months old now) practice test on the FORCES.ca website and studying the portions that you have difficulty with. Keep in mind that it is a timed test without the use of a calculator. 

Personally, I believe this will be better preparation than worrying about the impressions of others.

https://survey-sondage.forces.gc.ca/snapwebhost/s.asp?k=153262975110


----------



## Gorkavenko2011

Thank you for your advice sir.
I did that test couple of times, that said I qualified for some positions, which is really good.
So I’ll keep practising and we will see how I’m going to do on my real CFAT.
Good luck to me and all of you guys!!!


----------



## Jonezy76

I applied for Weapons Tech at 16 Service Company. I've taken the practice test twice. I know for a fact that I scored 60/60 on the last one. I scored 51/60 my first try.
Both times, at the end, it said the same thing.... "You may qualify for some positions.....etc..."
I did give feedback saying that it would be better if examples are given for which you'd qualify for. I'll just brush up on my algebra for the problem solving until I write the real test. That's where 7 of my 9 wrong answers came from. I've been out of school for 25 years and it shows.


----------



## E.M.I

Hi, I couldn't go for the aptitude test today as i was up all night from a fever due to a cold. I called the recruiting office in the morning and left a msg that i can not attend the test. What do i need to do to schedule it again? Will it be a problem because i couldn't attend it? I am really worried as i been looking forward to join the army .
Thanks


----------



## BeyondTheNow

E.M.I said:
			
		

> Hi, I couldn't go for the aptitude test today as i was up all night from a fever due to a cold. I called the recruiting office in the morning and left a msg that i can not attend the test. What do i need to do to schedule it again? Will it be a problem because i couldn't attend it? I am really worried as i been looking forward to join the army .
> Thanks



What you’ve done (leaving a message) is acceptable. However, if you don’t receive any sort of contact within a few business days, I’d contact your RC again and try to speak to a person directly to explain the situation. You should be able to reschedule, although I don’t know how long you’d have to wait.


----------



## commander-cb

My issue was slightly complicated.  The cfat is now a 2 part test. I was given a few days to prepare for a cfat that I already wrote. It seemed to me that I am being tricked into writing , rewriting the cfat with no notice. I still think they are going to make me rewrite ... without telling me I'm being forced to rewrite,  and the entire time being reassured that I will NOT have to rewrite. It feels ...like I'm being played.


----------



## JesseWZ

commander-cb said:
			
		

> My issue was slightly complicated.  The cfat is now a 2 part test.



I think you have been mis-informed or misunderstood and should go back to your recruiter with your questions. The CFAT is *not* a two part test.


----------



## winds_13

commander-cb said:
			
		

> My issue was slightly complicated.  The cfat is now a 2 part test. I was given a few days to prepare for a cfat that I already wrote. It seemed to me that I am being tricked into writing , rewriting the cfat with no notice. I still think they are going to make me rewrite ... without telling me I'm being forced to rewrite,  and the entire time being reassured that I will NOT have to rewrite. It feels ...like I'm being played.



Commander-cb, 

You cannot be forced to rewrite the CFAT, applying to the CAF is an entirely voluntary process. In fact, you must specifically request to rewrite the CFAT, after a 30-day mandatory wait period, and provide justification on why you should be granted the opportunity to rewrite before potentially being booked to retake the test.


----------



## canada56

Sorry for my ignorance, as I am sure it has already been posted but I am new to the forum and still trying to navigate it.  

Can someone please tell me the complete layout of the CFAT?

i.e. How many questions in each of the three categories?
Are all three categories tested in the same group or are they separate?
How long for each category (or total)?
Is it written on paper or computer based?
...plus anything else crucial to understanding the structure.

Thanks


----------



## sarahsmom

There is an NDA attached to the CFAT. All we can say is that there are spatial, math and verbal questions. There is a time limit. No calculators allowed. And it is used to qualify for your desired trade. Every trade has a different score.


----------



## dapaterson

There is an official practice version of the CFAT available online at: https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/dnd-mdn/documents/jobs/20170906-preparing-for-aptitude-test.pdf


----------



## canada56

Thank you.


----------



## soldier888

Hello everyone,

Could you please let me know where I can access practice CFAT exams? I intend to write the exam soon. Thank you very much, in advance.


----------



## stellarpanther

soldier888 said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> Could you please let me know where I can access practice CFAT exams? I intend to write the exam soon. Thank you very much, in advance.



By clicking on the link 2 posts up from yours.


----------



## SirThisIsAWendys

Good afternoon,

About a year ago I took the CFAT, I did really well on it and I was able to select the trade I was looking for. However, I unfortunately was not able to get into RMC and I did not want to spend my time as a non-officer so I decided to go to a civillian university and get my degree there.

I'm currently finishing up my midterms for my first semester and I've had some extra time to think about my future after my undergrad and I thought about joining the military again. The first question that came to mind was if I had to do the CFAT again.

If anyone could answer this for me it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Best regards,

SirThisIsAWendys


----------



## sarahsmom

You only need to redo the CFAT if your score is not high enough for your desired trade.


----------



## SirThisIsAWendys

paleomedic said:
			
		

> You only need to redo the CFAT if your score is not high enough for your desired trade.



Thank you very much for the answer.

Have a good night.

Best regards,

SirThisIsAWendys


----------



## HoLyLuKE

From someone with C average math 11  and a veritable degree of test anxiety.

I have been using these recently, free on the Edmonton public library website.
All you have to do is register (you can even reg without a email if you don't like giving it out) 

My scheduled CFAT got canned due to covid restrictions in the area, I am taking it as a sign to study and pt more.

Practice tests 

practical math ebook

I also downloaded the app "CFAT test trainer" it was 6 bucks and really helps with your spatial awareness, some of the vocabulary and problem solving questions are laughable at best though.

And don't forget that smarter people than I have proven that a certain level of anxiety going into a test can be a good thing 

"After the amygdala sends a distress signal, the hypothalamus activates the sympathetic nervous system by sending signals through the autonomic nerves to the adrenal glands. These glands respond by pumping the hormone epinephrine (also known as adrenaline) into the bloodstream. As epinephrine circulates through the body, it brings on a number of physiological changes. The heart beats faster than normal, pushing blood to the muscles, heart, and other vital organs. Pulse rate and blood pressure go up. The person undergoing these changes also starts to breathe more rapidly. Small airways in the lungs open wide. This way, the lungs can take in as much oxygen as possible with each breath. Extra oxygen is sent to the brain, increasing alertness. Sight, hearing, and other senses become sharper. Meanwhile, epinephrine triggers the release of blood sugar (glucose) and fats from temporary storage sites in the body. These nutrients flood into the bloodstream, supplying energy to all parts of the body."
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/understanding-the-stress-response


----------



## swissarmyknife

Hey guys. I have a small question. 

I'm looking to get into infantry, I have my CFAT tomorrow and... Despite my weeks of studying, a lot of the questions I had to answer on the problem-solving portion of the test were just too hard for me (I have pretty bad Dyscalculia, I managed to get a derogation in maths before being done with high school.) However, I find myself having absolutely no issue with the vocabulary and spatial questions.

Do I have a shot at being an infantryman at all, or do they factor in how well you did in the problem-solving questions? Am I looking way too deep into this?


----------



## HoLyLuKE

swissarmyknife said:


> Hey guys. I have a small question.
> 
> I'm looking to get into infantry, I have my CFAT tomorrow and... Despite my weeks of studying, a lot of the questions I had to answer on the problem-solving portion of the test were just too hard for me (I have pretty bad Dyscalculia, I managed to get a derogation in maths before being done with high school.) However, I find myself having absolutely no issue with the vocabulary and spatial questions.
> 
> Do I have a shot at being an infantryman at all, or do they factor in how well you did in the problem-solving questions? Am I looking way too deep into this?


I saw someone on here saying that you only need a 20/60 overall to get infantry, so If you do good on the first two sections you should have a chance. Being a competitive percentile is another thing. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can back that up.

But seriously don't take my word for it, I know about as much as you do.... good luck on the test!


----------



## sarahsmom

HoLyLuKE said:


> I saw someone on here saying that you only need a 20/60 overall to get infantry, so If you do good on the first two sections you should have a chance. Being a competitive percentile is another thing. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can back that up.
> 
> But seriously don't take my word for it, I know about as much as you do.... good luck on the test!


You also need to be correctable to 20/20. Just FYI


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## camrose

Searched the internet for CFAT + dyscalulia and came across this thread! I wrote CFAT last year and struggled with some of the questions even though I prepared/studied/bought the app to get ready for it. I was diagnosed with a math disorder in elementary school, it's fairly mild at least I thought so. I did qualify for a few trades but none of the officer ones. I had been hoping to go direct entry since I'm 90% done my university degree. They said I was pretty close to the cutoff and I could do a rewrite but I probably need to look for a new life plan. Has anyone done much better on their rewrite?


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## peanuts

So I did the CFAT last Wednesday, and I want to state from now, _I absolutely am not stating that I should have heard anything yet._

My question is this; everyone I've inquired with has told me that they heard right after their CFAT that they had passed. I however was only asked to provide some clarification regarding something on my medical form, and then I left. Does not hearing anything immediately after your test mean you didn't pass?

I'm wondering what happens next. Do I wait for a rejection email? Or is there still a chance I passed the CFAT but they will let me know at a later point? I just feel like if you didn't hear anything on the same day as you wrote the test, you didn't pass. Is this true?


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## allista

*I would like to preface this by saying THE CAF DOES NOT OWE ME ANYTHING, and that despite the results I received, I would serve this country faithfully in any capacity provided I am given the opportunity.*

Hey all, 

So I did my CFAT today and was told I didn't make the cutoff for infantry yet several tech trades that most definitely required higher scores (it's not as if I know, but I'd assume so) were made available to me strangely enough.

I'm definitely aware of my math and spatial weaknesses but I was sure I'd score high enough on all categories to at least make the cutoff for infantry, though I asked around on Reddit and was told my scores may have been enough to qualify for infanteer, but not enough to be competitive on the CL or the PCL.

I've gotten rather vague answers regarding this and the recruiting officer who sat me down for a debrief was rather vague talking about all the benefits of intel, signals, etc trying to wave a chance to get a security clearance in front of me). Wouldn't I be more than qualified for infantry if I received an offer for most tech trades and signal operator in addition to intel?

I'm rather confused and considering either requesting a rewrite or dropping my application entirely and trying again later when after a prolonged period of study and research, don't want to get shoehorned into a job I don't want. Is it possible that my results/the full list of jobs I qualified for are being withheld in favor of trying to shoehorn me into one of the more in-demand occupations? Could use some advice here fellas, thanks!


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## winds_13

The minimum CFAT scores required for NCM trades are not entirely linear... some trades just have a minimum total score whereas others also have a minimum score for Problem Solving or a combination of Verbal Skills and Problem Solving. It is possible that you met the minimum total score for many of the technician trades but failed to meet the minimum Problem Solving score for Infanteer. It is not common but it does happen.

The recruiting staff won't withhold available jobs from you, but also are not allowed to waste resources processing uncompetitive applications.


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## allista

winds_13 said:


> some trades just have a minimum total score whereas others also have a minimum score for Problem Solving or a combination of Verbal Skills and Problem Solving


Sometimes you gotta just wish our recruiting system was as linear and straightforward as the American one......oh well!

The recruiting officer did offer me intelligence first and foremost due to my language skills and cultural background (middle eastern) and said a top security clearance came with it as a bonus, told me he'd be able to start processing me right then which I accepted rather foolishly so I guess that means I did something right haha. I requested a list of all the available trades I qualified for and am considering pursuing a Sig Ops career instead since it appears to be in demand and appears somewhat interesting. But if intelligence is what the CAF deems for me and nothing else of interest is available, I'll accept that. Thank you for answering me.

Out of curiosity do you think spatial also played a factor in me not scoring high enough for combat arms? I'd venture a guess and say my verbal was off the charts, my problem solving was mediocre but my spatial was just horrendous, I may have come off as having the spatial awareness of a blind moose but I suppose my brain just can't wrap around shapes and corners and angles like some people, I guess that's why it's called an aptitude test though!


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## daftandbarmy

allista said:


> Sometimes you gotta just wish our recruiting system was as linear and straightforward as the American one......oh well!
> 
> The recruiting officer did offer me intelligence first and foremost due to my language skills and cultural background (middle eastern) and said a top security clearance came with it as a bonus, told me he'd be able to start processing me right then which I accepted rather foolishly so I guess that means I did something right haha. I requested a list of all the available trades I qualified for and am considering pursuing a Sig Ops career instead since it appears to be in demand and appears somewhat interesting. But if intelligence is what the CAF deems for me and nothing else of interest is available, I'll accept that. Thank you for answering me.
> 
> Out of curiosity do you think spatial also played a factor in me not scoring high enough for combat arms? I'd venture a guess and say my verbal was off the charts, my problem solving was mediocre but my spatial was just horrendous, I may have come off as having the spatial awareness of a blind moose but I suppose my brain just can't wrap around shapes and corners and angles like some people, I guess that's why it's called an aptitude test though!



I assume the recruiting staff were trying to do you a favour. 

The usual route to the Intelligence Trade is Infantry for 15 years until your body gives out, then put in for a transfer


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## allista

daftandbarmy said:


> I assume the recruiting staff were trying to do you a favour.
> 
> The usual route to the Intelligence Trade is Infantry for 15 years until your body gives out, then put in for a transfer


Honestly I can kinda see why that was the case. Combat arms experience from what I know is supposed to give Int Ops/Officers a strong understanding of military culture, particularly that of the "boots on the ground" soldier.

I hope off-the-street Int Ops are trained to a similar standard if that isn't the case anymore.


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## Kosmas

allista said:


> Honestly I can kinda see why that was the case. Combat arms experience from what I know is supposed to give Int Ops/Officers a strong understanding of military culture, particularly that of the "boots on the ground" soldier.
> 
> I hope off-the-street Int Ops are trained to a similar standard if that isn't the case anymore.


Hey, I am actually applying for the intelligence officer trade myself and am awaiting my call to book the CFAT. I was wondering if you could tell me how you did on the CFAT. Also, I heard that they were apparently not even hiring for intelligence officer this year, but since you were offered the trade, I am curious. Did you accept the offer?


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## allista

Kosmas said:


> Hey, I am actually applying for the intelligence officer trade myself and am awaiting my call to book the CFAT. I was wondering if you could tell me how you did on the CFAT. Also, I heard that they were apparently not even hiring for intelligence officer this year, but since you were offered the trade, I am curious. Did you accept the offer?


Hi, so I didn't qualify for Int O as I do not have a degree but I did indeed qualify for and request to be processed as an Int Op, currently awaiting the results of my medical.

As for the CFAT from what I know I scored lower on the spatial ability and problem-solving aspects of the test, but scored exceptionally high on the verbal portion, just maxed it out which is likely why I even got the offer, however, I'm not super confident about my chances of making it through the PCL and am considering requesting a CFAT rewrite in the future. Hope this helped


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## Kosmas

allista said:


> Hi, so I didn't qualify for Int O as I do not have a degree but I did indeed qualify for and request to be processed as an Int Op, currently awaiting the results of my medical.
> 
> As for the CFAT from what I know I scored lower on the spatial ability and problem-solving aspects of the test, but scored exceptionally high on the verbal portion, just maxed it out which is likely why I even got the offer, however, I'm not super confident about my chances of making it through the PCL and am considering requesting a CFAT rewrite in the future. Hope this helped


I see, do you know if they are hiring intelligence officers this year? Also how long did it take you to get the initial call? I was supposed to get it a few days ago but did not and sent them an email.


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## allista

Kosmas said:


> I see, do you know if they are hiring intelligence officers this year? Also how long did it take you to get the initial call? I was supposed to get it a few days ago but did not and sent them an email.


I'm sorry if I was being unclear, I am being processed as an Intelligence Operator but am nowhere near close to being on the CL, let alone receiving a call. I'd really recommend asking your recruiter about this as I wouldn't want to speak on something I'm not confident about knowing for certain.


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## Kosmas

allista said:


> I'm sorry if I was being unclear, I am being processed as an Intelligence Operator but am nowhere near close to being on the CL, let alone receiving a call. I'd really recommend asking your recruiter about this as I wouldn't want to speak on something I'm not confident about knowing for certain.


Yea, no worries, I was told to email them, they did not say call. So I guess i'll just wait for the them to get back to me


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