# New Reservists applying for tour-STFU



## Jarnhamar (24 Oct 2005)

I'm a little pissed off at the attitudes of new privates/soldiers I heard this week-end in meaford while on the TF0306 selection.

You guys need to shut your mouths and listen more.
Standing around in the rain on a simple range week-end complaining for 2 days about how much it sucks is stupid. You don't have enough time in to complain about being rained on. It's also embarrassing standing near you listening to you cry.
If you cant stand being bored and wet for a few hours you should probably rethink your decision to go overseas because it's going to get a hell of a lot harder.

I'm not sure if I missed the memo about tours overseas being an easy thing to get as a reservist- last I heard it was still something big. I don't know how many young soldiers I heard bitching about how they won't even bother taking a tour if it's at camp mirage.  
What, your a reserve private with 7 months in and your too fucking good to deploy to certain jobs overseas? Get over yourselves.

What gets me the most is the seemingly universal plan I heard from a lot of the new guys- doing the 6 months work up training then pulling off tour before you go. Real professional assholes, where do you come up with this stuff?  I guarantee if any of the older guys hear about you doing this it's going to get back to your regiments, why not do yourself a favor and let someone go over who will actually appriciate AND finish the tour.


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## Michael Dorosh (24 Oct 2005)

*BEEP* Houston we are venting something out into space *BEEP*

Maybe the guys complaining about the rain didn't see how it would prepare them for working at Camp Mirage?  ;D


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## Bruce Monkhouse (24 Oct 2005)

Pull out and one will do 6 months in SDB might seperate the morons now....


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## Dog (24 Oct 2005)

I was talking to one of the Reserve MCpl's who was there for task force selection and he was complaining because there were guys there who weren't even supposed to be there, but showed up anyway hoping to get the ball rolling so their chances to go were better if someone else decided to pull out. 

The guys running the C7 range were telling candidates that if they firing the C7 that day to swing by the shacks later on that night or the next afternoon and get their names checked off after saying whether or not they passed. What the hell is the point of even running the course at all if you are going to use the honour system to find out if guys passed?

The guys who were going through the 9mm range complained that they were waiting in the rain forever because the infantry were being told to qualify first, when it was the people like Officers and Drivers who actually NEEDED to qualify that day because they weren't going to be able to be there 2 weeks from now.

Some guys slept in until 10pm, and got their buddies to say that they were there. While the the guys who showed up in the morning sat around waiting to do something because too many people showed up in the first place.

Reg Force Cpl's were screaming at the Reserve MCpl's like they were new recruits, when it would have been more effective to treat them as though they weren't born MCpl's... they earned it, too. Not to mention some of the reg force Cpls were acting like 11 year olds and thinking it was funny to not let some of the reserve privates eat, or waking them up for no reason other than they think it's funny.

They CS Gas Hut was a big screw-up since everyone was using everyone else's gas masks, because some people forgot theirs, and do you think everyone got their own mask back? Not hardly.

And last but not least, when some of the guys who drove 5 hours to get there, were ready to leave at 2pm sunday afternoon, after doing everything they needed to do. They were told to hang around and wait until everyone was done. So they hung around and wasted time and then didn't get home until 1 am,  when they have school, or work the next day, which they thought was ignorant. 

He said that he's pulling out if selection is run the same way next time, it would be different if he was even 60% sure that he was going to be going on tour... but as a reservist he's not. He has another day job, he has a family too, and he doesn't want to put up with the above crap, and find out that he's now missed the mil-skills competition, and has lost shifts at work because he was busy sitting in a puddle for nothing 5 hours away.

Not that unreasonable to complain, if you ask me.


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## Sh0rtbUs (24 Oct 2005)

I'll put up with it, send me!!  ;D


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## Jarnhamar (24 Oct 2005)

A lot of good points Dog, all true too.
I agree the week-end's planning went out the window the minute brigades started calling units saying "Uhh, bring 10 extra guys" with an hours notice.
People showed up with no paperwork.   There wasn't nearly enough dedicated range staff. Using candidates as range staff was a poor idea. A lot of the mastercorporals and sgt's got boned. Troops were dumb and didn't bring their gas masks. Being in for 3 years and saying you never got issued a gas mask isn't a good excuse, especially if your trying to get on a tour.   We could fill up a few pages worth of the stuff.

My contention is new privates attutude's towards the tour itself.
Complaining about the organization of the ranges and paperwork problems are justified.
Troops complaining about the rain and being bored need to accept that it comes with the job.
Green troops complaining that their only getting such and such a position and their somehow above it is bullshit in my opinion. It's a very ungreatful attitude when senior members (cpls, mcpls) of some regiments were passed up in order to give these new guys a good go.


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## geo (24 Oct 2005)

Hmmm...
One thing is certain... last weekend's performance will have a "somewhat" negative effect on the Regular force's perception of what a reservist is....

Always been the few ruining it for the majority.
I can appreceate the Bde telling the units to bring extra bodies who are interested in going BUT, the unit - that body that knows it's men (& women), it's their responsability to make the correct selection of personnel. If the unit CO tells the Bde Cmdr he does not have any more people of the calibre needed for deployment... then that should be good enough for everyone.... 
Leave plugs & acting blank files at home... where they belong.

Chimo!


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## Peace (24 Oct 2005)

It is the soldiers job to complain... in limited amounts...  BUT if it aint raining it aint training ;D

Is that just a zervist thing or do you find many of us regs complaining to the level that those boys did?
Also. Sine i would KILL to go overseas and I cant yet, ...   enough said.


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## Baloo (24 Oct 2005)

Peace said:
			
		

> Is that just a zervist thing or do you find many of us regs complaining to the level that those boys did?



Careful not to insert us fragile Reservist folk into the rain. We get lumpy and squishy and tend to wither away. Look, black clouds! Quick everyone, we need to get back to the hot mod tents before the waterproof Regs show up! 

Its true, we don't like going on exercises. There is the awful, awful possibility of us getting dirty. That is why we are always complaining. Thats all we do. Sit in our biv sites and sulk about this or that. If it isn't sunny, then the Reserves shuts down, it is a common fact. 

Why even have Reseves? They are choir boys, the lot of them. 

 :


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## childs56 (24 Oct 2005)

From the sounds of it, it seems to have been one big unprepared mass of confusion.

One must look at why the newbies's were complaining, as stated before things such as food, admin and that will always be complained about. The nature of the beast is when your troops stop complaining something is very wrong. 

I have noticed that new troops comming in have a much more awareness of what is happening around them. This is partial to the senior members own fault. The camaraderie that exists in a Reserve unit also exists to make it its demise. The fact that every one is so close and all drink together as best friends. In turn makes the information that goes along with the job that much easier to access. Some of these privates more then likely heard a Sgt,Mcpl or even a Snr Cpl talk about how they didn't want to go to such and such a camp. This in turn filtered down to the new member's attitude. Do you blame them for not wanting to go to a camp where they may have heard one of their senior people say the same? 

All things that we must look at before jumping the gun on the new guys attitude. If they are complaining then find out why and try to help them understand what they are actually doing. 

The thing about the Reg's treating Reserve Mcpls like crap, well I went through that. Really it all boils down to a lack of understanding on both sides. Neither side really understands what the other does. The misconception between the Reg's and the Reserves to this day still exists. 

We both have our lazy, unforgiving, self centered, Reg/Reserve hating, uneducated educated, untrained, arrogant, no it all,that has nothing better to do then insult the other and demean them in any way they can.   

If your weekend went down hill from the start then I recommend that you write up what went wrong, the things as you seen, substantiate what it is, give good clear and concise direction so that their is no doubt in your Chain of Command that it was terrible and not only showed a discredit on them selves but on the whole system.   Make them good solid recommendations that they can act on.
 When you do write it up make it seem as though they wrote it themselves. Put those big words in it that officers only love to often.   Keep the anger and sarcasm completely out of it. Set the stage for future events such as this. 

MOST importantly get it done ASAP. If you let it sit for weeks on end, the COC will forget and all will be lost till next time.   Be FIRM FAIR and Friendly in your approach to this matter. 

Remind the lower ranks, it is a privilege not a right to go on a tour.

Good luck


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## Daidalous (24 Oct 2005)

Man if some of the guys on this training were complaining about being on training, I can only imagine what they will complain about if they have to do gate guard duty, or kitchen duty.   As to the whole honour system for your range scores, what the hell is the NCO in charge of the Butts party doing!  And people sleeping in late and having there friends lie for them.   Charge  them both and re pat to unit.  Stuff like this really hurts the people who show up wanting to go and put forth the effort to learn and prepare for a tour.


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## The_Falcon (24 Oct 2005)

That kind of crap pissess me off considering I am one of those seniorish cpls in my unit who got passed over for some newer guys.  There are also rumours in my unit that we didn't even nominate all the people we could have, that we allowed other units to have our spots, so we would lose so many people to a tour.  If that is true that just pisses me off even further.


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## UberCree (24 Oct 2005)

The rain god is a whimp!

Complaining is a learned behaviour.  They learn' t from their leaders... on course... from regs... etc. etc. etc.  These guys should be praying for rain!
Weak.


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## Britney Spears (24 Oct 2005)

> senior members (cpls, mcpls) of some regiments were passed up in order to give these new guys a good go.



I am somewhat mystified as to why this would happen.  "Give the new guys a good go"? Last time I checked, they haven't built a Disneyland in Khandahar yet, and the army doesn't deploy overseas to give anyone a "good go". And what kind of job gives the "good gos" to the new guys?


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## dc445 (24 Oct 2005)

All this Reserve bashing is stupid, the "regs" are just bitter that a Reservist can perform just as well or even BETTER at something regs devote their whole lives to while a Reservist does it a few days and a weekend a month. Check it at the door guys and relax. Thats all it boils down to. Those reg CPLs that are bashing the Reservists are the winers and need to bitch and complain about everything to make themselves feel better and justify their own lives.


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## Jarnhamar (24 Oct 2005)

Depends what perspective you use 'good go' in.
I don't mean something thats easy where people are max relaxed, ie safty driver for a week-end or doing the role playing at PSTC for a month.    Or a theme park.

I used 'good go' as in a tasking that seriously bennifits your career where reserve soldiers gain operation experience, a chance to mentor under the regular force, confidence in themselves and the chance to save a lot of money.


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## Kat Stevens (24 Oct 2005)

dc445 said:
			
		

> All this Reserve bashing is stupid, the "regs" are just bitter that a Reservist can perform just as well or even BETTER at something regs devote their whole lives to while a Reservist does it a few days and a weekend a month. Check it at the door guys and relax. Thats all it boils down to. Those reg CPLs that are bashing the Reservists are the winers and need to ***** and complain about everything to make themselves feel better and justify their own lives.



What-everrrr...... :


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## HollywoodHitman (24 Oct 2005)

At the end of the day, the military is the military. You are given a task, you complete it. Rain, snow, mud, whatever. You sign on the line, you get a paychecque, food, roof over your head (or not depending on the job), but you have a job to do. If the Reg Cpls' were yapping at the Res MCpl's, then the Res MCpl's should have sorted them out. Period. The Res MCpl's that stood there and took it (if thats what happened) failed the test...The Cpl's were testing to see how far they could go...Just like when a new dog has joined the pack.......

The Pte's whining and talking crap should have been told to shut their mouths and learn something.   Just remember that when people are nervous, they're often more brave in a group, than how they really feel. A Reg Force Inf Pte is FAR more qualified and experienced than their Res counterpart.....Initially.....Everything comes with time.

We all have something to learn from one another. Reg Force guys who bitch about us Rentals, suck it up and deal with it....We're not going anywhere. Reservists who act like asses, and NinjaSnipers knock it off (unless you can walk the walk)....You make it tough for those of us who enjoy working with the Regs.

End of the day Kiddies, we all put on the uniform, we're all on the same team......The Reservist who is acting like an ass, or the Reg that is giving the Reservist shit and grief, might find themselves shooting, communicating and moving.....Together.....Relying on each other....

Sort it out.

My $.02


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## Peace (24 Oct 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> What-everrrr...... :



+1

And folks... there are FAR many regs who dont understand reservists... so many  nicknames like t00n, sas WEEKENDWARRIOR, ect...
Its all BS.

Fact is EACH component has thier fair share of sh**pumps.  
ITS NOT A RESERVISTS FAULT, that they go on a course with half the time to learn what us regs learn in a full course.  Fact of the matter is YOU ARENT a "sniperninja" and wont be for a while.  NEITHER ARE WE.  BUT regulars do this everyday. rain, sun, snow, wind.
Point of the matter is the moment you start thinking you are top **** then you are too vain to properly fit into the uniform.  There is a big diff between pride and whatever that BS some of the kids are convincing themselfs.

As for that bit about regular instructors.... man, both sides are taught by eachother.

Persional Point Of View: 
       Just like buddy said, at the end of the day we all wear the flag. I DONT KNOCK RESERVES or call them toons.  You have your job and I have mine. Last thing i need is some stupid SOLDIER (regardless of component) screwing the pooch because they are a pump. Take your time learn your trade, recieve your lumps, dont be a baby. Someone ALWAYS has it worse than you. Just look at those poor boys on holding PL in meaford. Pray for their souls gentlemen.


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## Sig_Des (24 Oct 2005)

I'm not going to come out and play the "you reg force guys are mean and we don't deserve it" whining game..

What I will say is, Reg or Res. people *****. Is it right? no. will it stop, unlikely. As previously mentioned, certain things about said weekend could have occured. If you hear a new Pte, reg or res bitching about being in the cold or the rain, tell him to suck it up. That's the job of the senior Cpls or MasterCpls. If they don't stop, tell them to STFU. venting on this site won't have stopped their whining.

Guy's saying they won't even go if it's Mirage, well, you can just laugh at them. Because if a 7 month res Pte declines this sudden opportunity because of the location, believe me, he'll never get it again. Just sit and laugh at the poor idiot. When he wants to get that Gucci tour, the leadership will say, "hey, isn't that the kid that declined because he didn't want to sit in the camp? Tell him to piss off."

I can tell you now, I would nearly kill to go on a tour. I don't care if it's as*hole nowhere, and I'm sitting up to my knees in crap. I will jump in the mud, rain, and cold if It means I get a chance to just HAVE a chance at going.

I'm really starting to hate the whole Res vs Regs thing that always seems to rear it's ugly head. I've been in the shacks in Kingston where drunk Reg force guy's on their 3's wandering around the halls yelling about "finding some toons and kicking their rental asses". I had to convince some of their more sober course mates to get a hold of them, and then concince some of the Res kids to not report it, unless it got ugly. I hate having one of my MCpls tell us at the start of a course that if reg guys are sh*tting on us, to come to them, because it's stupid that it could get to that point. You have enough stuff on your plate as is without that kind of crap. And believe me, wether it's a Reg or Res RSM, once he rips into you because of that kind of stupid behavior, you won't care. Punishments and charges are the same.

I'll finish this counter-rant of sorts saying...I've sat in the -60 weather on winter warfare..I've sat in the rain and shot on ranges. does it suck, yes. Do I *****, yup. (A happy soldier will *****) Will I ever give it up. not a chance in h*ll Don't judge us reservists as a whole, but as how we display ourselves when it comes to getting the job done

Edit: stupid autocorrect. Who says bumhole?


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## Peace (24 Oct 2005)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Don't judge us reservists as a whole, but as how we display ourselves when it comes to getting the job done



+1  well put!


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## geo (24 Oct 2005)

Bout time for management to shut down this thread methinks............

Cheers!


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## Jarnhamar (24 Oct 2005)

What the heck is +1?  

Yes, by all means please lock the thread. I should have known it would fall prey to the "reg force vs reserve turn were all the same" monster


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## HollywoodHitman (24 Oct 2005)

it always does...........


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## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Oct 2005)

LOCKED!!!


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