# Cop guns down deaf, old Native American.



## bdave (21 Dec 2010)

Didn't see this posted anywhere; it probably doesn't belong here.
This is just so shocking and abysmal that I feel I have to post it.
Not trying to stir the pot. I'm just putting it out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1VKo6-m27c&feature=player_embedded


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## Thompson_JM (21 Dec 2010)

Hard to speculate with no footage of the actual incident there..

All we have is the Audio soundtrack which clearly has the officer stating "Put the knife down"

I think until official reports come out, anything said in regards to this is pure speculation.


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## Brutus (21 Dec 2010)

Tommy said:
			
		

> Hard to speculate with no footage of the actual incident there..
> 
> All we have is the Audio soundtrack which clearly has the officer stating "Put the knife down"
> 
> I think until official reports come out, anything said in regards to this is pure speculation.



According to news sources, the carver is a deaf (partially) native man from BC, his knife was 3 inches long (legal), and was found folded by back up officers (and not open as originally stated by the officer that did the shooting). There is a public inquiry into this in January and the officer has been told to surender his sidearm and badge pending the hearing.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/432014_williams18.html?source=mypi


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## Container (21 Dec 2010)

I believe the police officer from the incident was released from the service for some other behavior issues. If I recall correctly anyways.

I havent watched the footage again, but I can assure you that one of the things people know nothing about when it comes to use of force is that there is zero tolerance involved with knives. Common training includes that under 21 feet of distance between an officer and a person with a knife can be crossed at so fast a rate that you can expect to be stabbed by anyone motivated to get to you. Obstacles, cover, and shoot if they continue to close the reactionary gap.

Of course situational factors can change this up, like a carver with a kinfe and a piece of wood. Just like I dont shoot hunters in the woods when I need to talk to them and they are carrying rifles.

But again Ill have to watch the video later.


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## Container (21 Dec 2010)

It very well could have been closed when he was shot, or it could have been closed when he fell, or he closed it when he was approaching the police and they didnt notice it. You'd have to know more than we do for that to mean anything.

Also, police die from "legal" weapons as much as illegal ones.

I had a carver try and bury a hatchet in my back when I turned to speak to his wife. The utility of the weapon isnt important.

It sounds to me like this guy has some issues, and the shooting may well turn out to be non "justified". But it needs facts not offered in the news to come to that conclusion.


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## Brutus (21 Dec 2010)

Container said:
			
		

> It very well could have been closed when he was shot, or it could have been closed when he fell, or he closed it when he was approaching the police and they didnt notice it. You'd have to know more than we do for that to mean anything.
> 
> Also, police die from "legal" weapons as much as illegal ones.
> 
> ...



I wasn't making a judgement here, just posting what I read.

1-The 'closed vs. open' point is obvious (a closed knife being of less threat than an open one).
2- The legal length point was (I think) made to demonstrate that the knife itself was legal, and that he was legally entitled to carry it provided he acted in an otherwise legal manner.
3- I know you didn't mention it, but the dead man's deafness obviously is alluding to his capacity to hear and obey the commands. But like you said, we certainly don't know enough to start passing judgement.


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## Container (21 Dec 2010)

Brutus said:
			
		

> I wasn't making a judgement here, just posting what I read.
> 
> 1-The 'closed vs. open' point is obvious (a closed knife being of less threat than an open one).
> 2- The legal length point was (I think) made to demonstrate that the knife itself was legal, and that he was legally entitled to carry it provided he acted in an otherwise legal manner.
> 3- I know you didn't mention it, but the dead man's deafness obviously is alluding to his capacity to hear and obey the commands. But like you said, we certainly don't know enough to start passing judgement.



The deafness is a nonstarter for anyone in law enforcement. We cant ask people for medical history. He has been in Seattle for 15 years and doesnt know that when a cop has his gun drawn and is yelling at you that he might be concerned about your knife?

Thats more than deaf. 

The reason that the knife legality is irrelevant is because until the police officers is satisfied that its present "legally" we are trained to treat it like it isnt. This police officer just has a terrible "bed side manner".

Im not defending the officer. I think its all hinkey- but I cant really tell. I wait and see what comes out of the inquiry. Like you said as well.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Dec 2010)

We're not doing this. What's shocking and abysmal is the inflammatory thread title and the attempt to paint someone before his day in court.

We're not going to sit here and speculate on any of it. NO ONE here knows or can even make an educated guess.

News sources aren't credible enough to take as gospel. This'll be up to the courts. The cop is innocent until proven guilty, by the court.

You can post the results then.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## George Wallace (25 Apr 2011)

UPDATE

Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act 




> *The Seattle Times Company*
> 
> *Birk resigns from Seattle Police Department
> *
> ...



More on LINK


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