# Living Quarters and Free Time



## Hoxtongue (22 Jun 2010)

I would like to know what are the possibilities for living quarters on a base. I've graduated from high school and plan on entering the forces as a electrical distribution tech and I basically want to know what living will cost. Also I have a girlfriend of 4 years that I will be leaving behind in Waterloo and I want to know what kind of free time I will have to talk to her through various methods. I have heard its like a regular 9 to 5 jobs and weekends off but I very much doubt that. I have tried to ask my cousin who is a Major but the response time is too long to get answers. And lastly what kind of space do you have and what can you bring with you. Specifically electronics (Laptop/xbox which I use to talk to my girlfriend) both myself and her understand the space and strain on the relationship but I just want to know I will be able to regularly talk to her. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Klinkaroo (22 Jun 2010)

I assume you haven't done BMQ yet. 

I would suggest first take a look at all the threads about BMQ and you will see what life will be like on that course. While on BMQ as far as I know no access to internet for the first 4 weeks but there are pay phones that you can use.

After that you will go and do your trades courses. 8-4 days just like if you were at a trades school. Normally you will be in double rooms on course (2 to a room). 

After you get your posting after your courses, they will pay for your move and you live on the economy (Apartment or House). If your girlfriend was to become your wife or common-law they will move her too. They pay for the movers to pack and move your stuff, real estate fees, hotels and plane tickets or km rate for your car and other things too. Everything is covered.

When you get to your location yes it's a 8-4 job. With plenty of afternoons and time to do personal admin and stuff.

However if you are getting ready to deploy or are deployed those hours can go up. Yes some days you feel like you aren't working that much, and some days you are working alot but it all balances out in the end really. The Canadian Forces have about 75 000 people, many with families, kids, friends and most cope with it quite well and live great lives.


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## Hoxtongue (22 Jun 2010)

Ah thank you my girlfriend is in university and will be for years. OK so I follow everything so far and once I'm done the BMQ and the trade school (I assume you meant weeks not days in your answer) I get a place to live where I can have my own stuff right? And whats an average cost. I know each base would be different but I want to have a basic idea. I want to have a sort of budget for this going into it. I know I wont be making alot of money so I just want to know the basic costs. If Im posted far from my girlfriend it will obviously be expensive to go there and back so I want to have an idea. I know I have alot of questions but I want to put my girl at ease before I get into this. I tend to jump into things without thinking but I want to be sure I can tell her as much as I possibly can


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## Cat (22 Jun 2010)

Same as anywhere else as you would be living on the economy (ie/ your own place) unless your married and request a PMQ on base. The pay isn't that bad really, but save when you're on course. Don't spend every weekend out drinking til you can't see and put some cash aside every pay. Pay off your bills and you'll be fine, by the time your out of trades school you'll be in pretty good shape


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## Hoxtongue (22 Jun 2010)

Thank you very much. I assume the local housing wont be too hard to find


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## Klinkaroo (23 Jun 2010)

Pay is pretty good, your first 4 years will be about 35 to 40k a year, once you hit Leading Seaman/Corporal level, you will be getting about 50k or more depending on your trade (ie if you get spec pay, sea duty allowance, aircrew allowance ect)

Also right now alot of bases fall under a program called the Post Living Differential, where certain bases that are situated in economies that have a higher cost of living get an addition allowance on top of there pay to help with the cost difference. For example people posted to Victoria, BC get about 800 dollars more a month to help with the cost of rent here (800+ for one bedroom place).

I'm not sure, but it seams that you have us compared to the Americans a little. We get paid a fair bit more then them, however we are not provided living accommodations like the americans unless we are on a course or on what we call Temporary Duty (short term employement out of our local area).


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## McD (23 Jun 2010)

Hoxtongue said:
			
		

> Ah thank you my girlfriend is in university and will be for years. OK so I follow everything so far and once I'm done the BMQ and the trade school (I assume you meant weeks not days in your answer) I get a place to live where I can have my own stuff right? And whats an average cost. I know each base would be different but I want to have a basic idea. I want to have a sort of budget for this going into it. I know I wont be making alot of money so I just want to know the basic costs. If Im posted far from my girlfriend it will obviously be expensive to go there and back so I want to have an idea. I know I have alot of questions but I want to put my girl at ease before I get into this. I tend to jump into things without thinking but I want to be sure I can tell her as much as I possibly can



Trying to put the girl at ease. This will be tougher than anything. Obviously I havent had to deal with balancing military life and a girl, but my current job takes me away alot, unexpectedly, and sometimes for weeks or months at a time. 

My advice here, plan ahead, expect the worse case scenarios, and absolutely make arrangements to cover your bum  for birthdays, valentines, and or any other BS day or occasion that seems or was considered nothing before. 

 Because there will be a guy getting her flowers or a card whose just a friend, who helped her a world issues and awareness class  .... but then you get her thinking how come a friend did and not my boyfriend. 

Compounded by distance, bing bang boom you're history by the weekend. 


Also you can look up pay scales on www.forces.ca and find approximate living costs from searchiing here.


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## Hoxtongue (23 Jun 2010)

Considering shes reading this thread too I can't really say that last comment helped at all. I trust her more than anything else in my life so really I have no worries when it comes to her. Other then that thanks for the good info guys. Every bit helps


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## gillbates (23 Jun 2010)

Hoxtongue said:
			
		

> Ah thank you my girlfriend is in university and will be for years. OK so I follow everything so far and once I'm done the BMQ and the trade school (I assume you meant weeks not days in your answer)



I think he meant 8am-4pm days.


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## Hoxtongue (23 Jun 2010)

Ahh I thought he was talking about course lengths. Thanks


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## Cat (23 Jun 2010)

I also recommend stocking up on phone cards for BMQ, you can buy them at the Canex, but access to that is very very limited, especially the first 4 weeks. nothing sucks more then being halfway through a conversation and running out of time not knowing when you'll get another phone card.

Calling regularily will help things alot, especially if you're far enough that weekend visits are out(once you have you weekends). 

For the Girlfriend : Send mail, everyone loves to get mail and it gives you a chance to write out things that you may not want to say over the phone.


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## captloadie (23 Jun 2010)

Cat said:
			
		

> For the Girlfriend : Send mail, everyone loves to get mail and it gives you a chance to write out things that you may not want to say over the phone.


Like "Dear John, the guy who delivers the flowers and chocolates you send is really cute. I think I have feelings for him. Please don't hate me but its over. Good luck on the rest of your course. Jane"   ;D


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## Cat (23 Jun 2010)

captloadie said:
			
		

> Like "Dear John, the guy who delivers the flowers and chocolates you send is really cute. I think I have feelings for him. Please don't hate me but its over. Good luck on the rest of your course. Jane"   ;D



I meant details about her day that she didn't have time to say or she was trying to cheer him up after a rough day and didn't want to tell him that she flipped her english lit prof off or something....


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## tristismilitis (23 Jun 2010)

Hoxtongue said:
			
		

> I would like to know what are the possibilities for living quarters on a base. I've graduated from high school and plan on entering the forces as a electrical distribution tech and I basically want to know what living will cost. Also I have a girlfriend of 4 years that I will be leaving behind in Waterloo and I want to know what kind of free time I will have to talk to her through various methods. I have heard its like a regular 9 to 5 jobs and weekends off but I very much doubt that. I have tried to ask my cousin who is a Major but the response time is too long to get answers. And lastly what kind of space do you have and what can you bring with you. Specifically electronics (Laptop/xbox which I use to talk to my girlfriend) both myself and her understand the space and strain on the relationship but I just want to know I will be able to regularly talk to her.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



There is also the possibility of living in Single Quarters depending on what base you are posted to after your trades training is completed. It's similar to the type of accommodations you see on a course: two to a room with a shared bathroom, laundry facilities on each floor, sometimes a common room where you can set up a t.v or hang out. Often there is a storage area in the basement for your extra kit, bicycles etc. 
Single rooms can be harder to come by, and of course cost extra but often you can get on a waiting list to go solo (some places base priority for single rooms on rank and reserve the rooms for Corporals and above). You'd have to check with the base Rations and Quarters where you get posted for current rates as the costs I am familiar with are probably out of date  (used to be about $100.00 a month but that is one base 5-6 years ago). 
Also good to know that single quarters do not have kitchen facilities as a general rule. Members who are living in can choose to pay for a ration card to use at the mess hall and there are various meal plans available. I think they run between 300.00-400.00 but again, you would want to check for current rate info with the base. I have a few friends that managed with microwaves and such to save the cost of a ration card and avoid the set meal times of the mess hall, but technically you are not supposed to cook in quarters and the barracks warden does do the occasional inspection to check for cleanliness and damage to the rooms. 
I also wanted to mention that I recall a program where once a year (at Christmas) members are entitled to assistance in returning to their next of kin for a visit via service flights. These are free flights to various points across Canada. They are not exactly a piece of cake to get a seat on, but worth sending up an application if there is a fight that fits your needs. Message usually comes out in the fall and applications are first come first serve so you have to keep your eyes open for when the dates/locations are released in routine orders (your orderly room will know about this stuff when you need help).
Good luck getting started! It's good to see you are planning ahead, I have seen more than a few guys mismanage their pay to the point that they had to go the bankruptcy route.


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## Hoxtongue (23 Jun 2010)

I spent a good amount of time reading through this enormous thread about the CFHA (I believe that was the acronym) The general consensus was to buy housing off base (actually buy) and rent other parts of the house to other guys. Any opinions on that?


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## Pokiey (23 Jun 2010)

I think buying really depends on location and your personal situation.  You'd have to take a lot into consideration:
- If you are buying in an area with lots of inventory and low demand, and all of a sudden had to sell due to being posted elsewhere or anything like that, how likely are you to be able to sell the house quickly?
- Also, if you are the landlord will you have someone to look after any issues if you are away on tour or on course?

I know there are million other things to consider as well, those are just 2 that popped into my head right away.

I know it's common in places like Victoria to build and rent out a separate apartment suite in your house because the cost of living is so high, it takes the edge of a huge mortgage payment.


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## Hoxtongue (23 Jun 2010)

Yes but I would be learning construction trades. I possibly would know some people back at the base who I could pay to take care of something like that. I just thought that getting some rent from some other people would help alot with the mortgage


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## Pokiey (23 Jun 2010)

Oh definitely extra income is extra income ... I've never rented to people, those suggestions were just things that popped into my head when i thought about it.  Hey if you're up for it, then go for it!!


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## Klinkaroo (23 Jun 2010)

Rations are 493$ a month for Full Rations and Partial Rations (10 meals a week) are 280$ a month, this is a nationwide cost set out by the Director of Food Services.

For rooms they range from 70$ for a 3 person shared room to 175$ for a single room with shared bathroom no sink in room.

There is a program now called LTA (Leave Travel Assistance) where once per fiscal year they will send you home to your next of kin and help (not always but many times will pay for all) with your plane ticket on commercial air. My first one that I took paid for the entire ticket, the one I took last year I had to pay 20$ out of pocket because I was just a tiny bit over the limit. The limit is based on the Kilometers from your next of kin.


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## Hoxtongue (23 Jun 2010)

493 a month!?! Are you kidding me? I could eat for a month for far less buying food


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## McD (23 Jun 2010)

Hoxtongue said:
			
		

> 493 a month!?! Are you kidding me? I could eat for a month for far less buying food


 I am not going to fight that deal. Not a chance. You wont either paying for your girlfriends airfare. Then again Im used to paying rent over 1.5X that plus food, and cooking if I dont eat out.


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## aesop081 (23 Jun 2010)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> There is a program* now * called LTA (Leave Travel Assistance)



It has been around, and called that for at least 20 years.


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## Hoxtongue (23 Jun 2010)

Yeah but oddly enough I have always wanted to learn how to cook. Not anything too crazy but it would be good to learn. So to save money I should live in the shared/single rooms and get the rations. That doesnt sound bad at all. and my living expenses will be 650 ish a month. Thats not too bad really. Any tips on saving money anyone?


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## McD (24 Jun 2010)

Hoxtongue said:
			
		

> Yeah but oddly enough I have always wanted to learn how to cook. Not anything too crazy but it would be good to learn. So to save money I should live in the shared/single rooms and get the rations. That doesnt sound bad at all. and my living expenses will be 650 ish a month. Thats not too bad really. Any tips on saving money anyone?



Search found; http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/26093.0.html

Dont buy things you dont need. Best way to save. Being single saves a boatload too.


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## Hoxtongue (24 Jun 2010)

That link wasnt too helpful. I'm looking for ways to keep cost of living low. That link was talking about investments and rrsp's. Just any tips. One was dont drink your face off on weekends, another was the rations, just anything like that.


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## McD (24 Jun 2010)

You're correct, investments and overall financial management and planning isn't helpful. Took me days to finish the 10 pages in that ,you're good.


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## Hoxtongue (24 Jun 2010)

I'm almost 19 and pay rent, car insurance, cell bills and for the most part buy food. I obviously cannot know what military life entails yet. I rarely drink and am for the most part fairly responsible. I am not asking for common sense. What you invest in or put into RRSP's are money that you have left over after the cost of living. The drinking thing was a stretch but what I'm looking for is saying "Well living in this housing is the best and having this ration plan is the best". I just want to know what I'm getting into. So from what I understand to save the most money I should be staying in either shared or single quarters and the ration plan is cheaper then me buying and making my own food. That's what I'm looking for. Thanks...


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## belka (24 Jun 2010)

Hoxtongue said:
			
		

> I'm almost 19 and pay rent, car insurance, cell bills and for the most part buy food. I obviously cannot know what military life entails yet. I rarely drink and am for the most part fairly responsible. I am not asking for common sense. What you invest in or put into RRSP's are money that you have left over after the cost of living. The drinking thing was a stretch but what I'm looking for is saying "Well living in this housing is the best and having this ration plan is the best". I just want to know what I'm getting into. So from what I understand to save the most money I should be staying in either shared or single quarters and the ration plan is cheaper then me buying and making my own food. That's what I'm looking for. Thanks...



Some bases, actually I think it's nationwide now, require you to be on rations if you live in the shacks (single quarters). This makes sense since SQ's don't have any real kitchen facilities where you can make proper meals. When I lived in SQ's this wasn't yet implemented and I saved a butt-load of money only paying for quarters($70month). I payed per meal when I ate at the mess, usually only for supper because I ate breakfast in the shacks and brought something in to work for lunch. I didn't really add it up but I was under $200/month for food for sure. 

Your situation is kinda tricky. You can either A: stay in the shacks and live on rations that you probably won't get all of...ei not eat the cost of rations per month or B: Try to rent a place in the area or get a PMQ and make your own food. This one can be more expensive because the cost of rent and PMQ's are very high in generally every base you go to. When you get posted to your base you need to evaluate your situation and come up with the most logical and economical decision. I know for myself, I could live in the shacks and pay rations but there is no point since I travel a lot and everything is paid for. I don't want to deal with having to deduct the days I'm not home from my monthly ration bill......if that is even possible. There is also leave, do you really want to pay full months rations when you are only there for a week out of the month?

I personally liked it better when rations was optional and you could just walk into the mess and pay for what you ate. I can see why they changed it though, people living in the shacks wouldn't go to the mess and eat really poorly.


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## Hoxtongue (24 Jun 2010)

Thank you everyone you've been so helpful. From what I gather almost every single decision can't be made until you're posted to a base. One last question. Is there anyone on each base to help with these decisions once I'm posted? I have a feeling I'll be back on the forums when its all settled out and I am posted but talking to someone in person is a little easier.


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## Michael OLeary (24 Jun 2010)

Hoxtongue said:
			
		

> That link wasnt too helpful. I'm looking for ways to keep cost of living low. That link was talking about investments and rrsp's. Just any tips. One was dont drink your face off on weekends, another was the rations, just anything like that.



If you are seeking general advice on living more frugally (which does not necessarily mean "cheaply"), try finding and subscribing to relevant on-line newsletters. You certainly don't have to follow all the advice they give, and much won't apply to your situation anyway, but you can pick and choose the advice that does fit, and it helps you create a mindset around how you spend your money and how to change the habits you don't like.  Small changes can help make the difference, freeing up that small portion of your income to save for the things you want to achieve.

For example:

The Simple Dollar - click the "get via email" in the header to receive the blog posts as a daily -mail, it saves you from remembering to surf to the site, and reading them only takes a few minutes of your day (then delete, or save the ones that really hit home).


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## liams mom (24 Jun 2010)

My DH only lived in the "shacks" on base for a very short time. He joined the forces at 18 and bought a house before he was 21. Once he was sure that his posting was going to be for over a year we went ahead and bought a little house. I paid for 1/2 of the down payment and we went to a lawyer to make sure that my investment would be protected if we broke up, since I wasn't living in the house. I was still at University and I didn't live in the house, since I was in Peterboro. This  house was in Petawawa. He got 2 other guys from the shacks to move in with him. These were guys he had known since Basic.  His mortgage was paid by the 2 other guys and he paid heat, insurance, hydro and any fix ups.  They split cable and phone.  They all learned to cook and shared meals.

They all lived there for about 2 years, until I married DH and moved in.  Once I had a job we renovated the house (it was icky and out dated!). 

We sold the house after owning it for 7 years, upon being posted out of Pet. We made a lot of cash and were able to buy a fantastic place at our new posting.  Since then we have bought, fixed and sold several houses (one per posting), making money every time and are living on waterfront property today!  We now have lots of equity. The armed forces helps you pay the costs to move/buy/sell.  Look for threads about this on the forum. 


So my advice to you is to buy if you can, find some roomies and do some renos. I


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## Klinkaroo (24 Jun 2010)

People have to understand with regards to rations. It is covering the cost a yes Food (up to your entitlement, so for supper example you are paying to get a bowl of soup, a 6" plate of from the salad bar, a main course, a desert, 3 snacks and two glasses of something to drink and a coffee. Add up all that, it get's pricey quick, and that is just one supper, not counting lunch or breakfast but if you cook at home and make one chicken breast and a cup of rice and one glass of juice, yeah it's going to be cheaper.You are also paying for the cooks to make the food for you, the cost of heating the area that you eat in, the kitchen staff to clean your dishes for you, the cost of electricity to eat the water to clean your dishes. 

Personally I like it, I just walk in and I'm out within 30 minutes, no dishes, no grocery shopping, no trying to figure out what I am going to cook tonight, or getting home late and not wanting to put in the effort ect...


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## Hoxtongue (24 Jun 2010)

Thanks. I see alot about buying houses on base. From what I see I'm thinking I'm going to be moved around fairly often. I will be going into basically the construction trades. Electrical specifically but everyone says I'll learn a basic amount about all of them. What would be you opinions on buying a house if there for a short time, using my own skills and possibly those of others on base to flip a house while there. It wouldn't be too hard, just a bit every night if I'm there for months and really, I'll be away from my Girlfriend so I don't know that I'll be doing too much in my time off. From what I see the single quarters and such mean I'll have a decent amount of money left over and I see this as a more involved method of investing my money. Any opinions?


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## forgiven (24 Jun 2010)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> People have to understand with regards to rations. It is covering the cost a yes Food (up to your entitlement, so for supper example you are paying to get a bowl of soup, a 6" plate of from the salad bar, a main course, a desert, 3 snacks and two glasses of something to drink and a coffee. Add up all that, it get's pricey quick, and that is just one supper, not counting lunch or breakfast but if you cook at home and make one chicken breast and a cup of rice and one glass of juice, yeah it's going to be cheaper.You are also paying for the cooks to make the food for you, the cost of heating the area that you eat in, the kitchen staff to clean your dishes for you, the cost of electricity to eat the water to clean your dishes.
> 
> Personally I like it, I just walk in and I'm out within 30 minutes, no dishes, no grocery shopping, no trying to figure out what I am going to cook tonight, or getting home late and not wanting to put in the effort ect...



A friend of mine just finished Basic Training at St Jean and he told me that the ration fee of almost 500 bucks per month seems expensive, but it is rather cheap considering that the food quality is good, no dishes to do, no cooking or shopping, and all you can eat (if you have time)  :.   He mentioned something that the recruit is at "ration strength" which he finally understands because of  how much he and his fellow recruits should eat to have enough energy to make it through the training.  Obviously chicken fingers, fries, and orange juice won't be enough. Mind you that in his case, he lost weight even though he said he ate considerably more than his usual habit.


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## gillbates (29 Jun 2010)

If I may, I suggest that you also look up WiseBread for tips on living frugally.

http://www.wisebread.com/


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## ducky (28 Jul 2010)

liams mom said:
			
		

> So my advice to you is to buy if you can, find some roomies and do some renos. I



thanks for information...i will definitely look into it...much appreciated!


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## Comrade (30 Jul 2010)

Hoxtongue said:
			
		

> That link wasnt too helpful. I'm looking for ways to keep cost of living low. That link was talking about investments and rrsp's. Just any tips. One was dont drink your face off on weekends, another was the rations, just anything like that.



Buy a hair trimmer and cut your own hair or get a buddy to do it since you'll be getting a haircut often. Smuggle food out of the mess back to the shacks to get your money's worth. Things like fruit, bread, and some deserts are great to fit in your pocket. Split cabs or take the bus if possible when going downtown. Don't lose any of your kit or you'll have to pay for it. Don't buy any extra "Gucci kit" from civilian stores unless you really need to, like for boots if you just can't stand the military ones. Carry your military ID with you everywhere and ask if there is a "government discount," for example at hotels. Really keep an eye on your pay statements since I know practically everyone has gotten screwed by the computer or the clerks before. But if you catch the mistake then they'll correct it no problem. Movie theatres on base are pretty cheap, like $2 a ticket.


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## dangerboy (30 Jul 2010)

Comrade said:
			
		

> Buy a hair trimmer and cut your own hair or get a buddy to do it since you'll be getting a haircut often. Smuggle food out of the mess back to the shacks to get your money's worth. Things like fruit, bread, and some deserts are great to fit in your pocket.



I would advise against this advice; most CSM's do not like barrack room haircuts so unless you can actually cut hair don't do it.  With regards to the food almost all messs halls have a policy against removing food from the mess, and if you do you are breaking regulations.  Just something to think about.


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## PMedMoe (30 Jul 2010)

Comrade said:
			
		

> Buy a hair trimmer and cut your own hair or get a buddy to do it since you'll be getting a haircut often. Smuggle food out of the mess back to the shacks to get your money's worth. Things like fruit, bread, and some deserts are great to fit in your pocket.



I also have an issue with both of these suggestions from a public health point of view.

If you trim your own hair, fine.  Do not let a "buddy" give you a barrack room haircut.  Common use trimmers are notorious for passing on communicable diseases like lice, etc.

As far as the food goes, you'll be sorry when there are insects and mice in your room.


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## armychick2009 (1 Aug 2010)

If you can save money for a downpayment on a house, look to see what community you are buying into. My husband and I purchased a house near Petawawa four years ago. We paid $127K for it and put maybe $5K into it over the years. Today we can get almost $200K for it, whenever we sell it. It depends where you are. Petawawa for example, is full of houses for sale at high prices for not-very-much house. (Why we bought just outside of town, tons more house for our $$)  If you can manage to find a house that's been on the market awhile, you may be able to find a deal. A lot of the older houses in that area for example, have knob and tube electrics so most buyers won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. But, if you are an electrician and can re-do it during your free time, then you may snag a deal. Also, find some roomies which isn't a problem down that way. I'm pretty certain in most military communities you will find an abundance of roommates who can't really afford a house of their own but don't want to live on base housing. 

If you're uncertain, find a cheap place to stay for your first posting --- save up  and learn your trade --- and then your next posting, do the splurge for the house putting down a nice chunk of cash on your mortgage.


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## Biggoals2bdone (1 Aug 2010)

Its really up to your lifestyle, I have a dog, and I am not married or common-law, therefore they would not give me a pmq, and I don't like not having any control over what I ingest, due to being an athlete. Therefore for me, living off base was the best option, plus I get PRIVACY, and my own bathroom!  So really its up to you, and how you like living your life, when you are in garrison.

I have to say this is the FIRST EVER time i've heard anyone say the food is GOOD at any CF mess hall, its usually the opposite I hear. Personally, I can't say i've ever really enjoyed the food at any mess hall, always very greasy, hard to get anything whole grain or healthy, bland taste, and get ready to LOVE fries.


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## EpicBeardedMan (1 Aug 2010)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> Its really up to your lifestyle, I have a dog, and I am not married or common-law, therefore they would not give me a pmq, and I don't like not having any control over what I ingest, due to being an athlete. Therefore for me, living off base was the best option, plus I get PRIVACY, and my own bathroom!  So really its up to you, and how you like living your life, when you are in garrison.
> 
> I have to say this is the FIRST EVER time i've heard anyone say the food is GOOD at any CF mess hall, its usually the opposite I hear. Personally, I can't say i've ever really enjoyed the food at any mess hall, always very greasy, hard to get anything whole grain or healthy, bland taste, and get ready to LOVE fries.



Sucks to hear this. Was hoping there would be a lot of healthy food options as I'm very..primal... with what I eat. Tend to stay away from crap foods.


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## armychick2009 (2 Aug 2010)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Sucks to hear this. Was hoping there would be a lot of healthy food options as I'm very..primal... with what I eat. Tend to stay away from crap foods.



I'm a bit the same way with my eating, though I wouldn't call it Primal. (I picture you eating an uncooked leg of a cow as I read that!)

I prefer to call it "whole foods" which is essentially anything unprocessed in my books. When I did a course at Borden, I found most days I was able to eat pretty well. There's always the salad bar (which actually had more than just lettuce!) and a lot of the food options in the hot-meal lines, allowed me to usually eat some type of unprocessed crap. I'd say out of the 21 days x 3 meals a day (60-some meals!), I really only had about three or four meals where there just wasn't enough for me to eat that had unprocessed crap in it.

However, that being said... what I would consider not idea for my way of eating, was gourmet for most of the people on my course!


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## EpicBeardedMan (2 Aug 2010)

armychick2009 said:
			
		

> I'm a bit the same way with my eating, though I wouldn't call it Primal. (I picture you eating an uncooked leg of a cow as I read that!)



Hahaha what I meant was unprocessed stuff, stuff that a caveman would eat basically, meat, fruits, vegetables, seeds, etc. I don't think I'd mind so much during BMQ stuffing my face with food to get me by but I'd like to return to my lifestyle after BMQ.


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## Pusser (2 Aug 2010)

Food services in the CF are exceptionally good.  Menus are designed with care to ensure that meals are attractive and nutritious.  However, it is institutional cooking that is trying to cater to many different palates.  Unfortunately, we can't please everyone all the time.  If anyone doubts the quality of food in CF messes, might I suggest you try eating in the messes of some or our allies.  Doing so would give you a whole new appreciation for the CF as most of our allies eat very poorly in comparison to us.


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## REDinstaller (2 Aug 2010)

Like the German mess at ISAF HQ in Kabul. Lunch always looked like something hot right out of the local sump. Goulash of somekind, just not readily identifyable.


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## Pusser (2 Aug 2010)

The Dining Facility at Butmir in Bosnia was run by an Englishman and a Scot, catering mostly to an eastern european palate.  What a disaster!  Their idea of vegetables was mushrooms and peppers boiled together - everyday for 196 @#$! days!


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## George Wallace (2 Aug 2010)

As Pusser says, our Food Services people have been amongst the best of all the world's militaries for the past century.  With recent changes to our messes they are still light years ahead of other militaries.  Other militaries will go out of their way to stop and eat in one of our messes overseas.  Even when Americans, and others, visit our messes here at home, they complement us on our messes.  

If you are such a fussy eater, that you can not find what you want in one of our messes, I would probably suggest joining the military is not for you.


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## REDinstaller (2 Aug 2010)

Not much of  a wine list with IMPs either.  :


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## Old Sweat (2 Aug 2010)

I was attached to two different NATO artillery units deployed on exercise in 1973. The first was the Norwegian Field Artillery Battalion Brigade North based in Saetermoen. The food was pretty basic at best, with dry bread, cheese and cold cuts much in evidence. The unpiece de resistance was the whale hamburger that challenged my palate at one meal, followed close behind on the low end of the gourmet scale by fish sticks that tasted much more like sticks than fish. 

The other was the Italian First Mountain Artillery Regiment, an Alpini unit, on exercise in the Val d'Aosta near the French border. The food was plain, plentiful, well prepared and recognizable. A typical meal in the field included pasta, a cutlet and some fresh fruit. A life experience worth the trip was to be issued one's ration of red wine from a jerry can. If one was so inclined, the travails of life in the Alps could be handled by emptying a small plastic packet (think a fast food Ketchup-sized serving) of grappa into a mug of coffee.


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## EpicBeardedMan (2 Aug 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If you are such a fussy eater, that you can not find what you want in one of our messes, I would probably suggest joining the military is not for you.



I think it's kind of a longshot to say because I choose to eat healthy the military isn't for me.. I think not paying for the mess and getting my own food would be a better solution than to give up a career don't you?


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## George Wallace (2 Aug 2010)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> I think it's kind of a longshot to say because I choose to eat healthy the military isn't for me.. I think not paying for the mess and getting my own food would be a better solution than to give up a career don't you?



And for those days when you are out in the Field on Ex, or away for six or more months on Tour, do you think you can go out and buy your own food?  Either get used to it now, or don't bother.  You haven't even been in a mess to find out what the food is like anyway so this whole exercise is moot to begin with.


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## REDinstaller (2 Aug 2010)

And where is the closest Loblaws when deployed on ship???? George is right, if you haven't experienced the mess don't complain on the food it provides. Shipboard cooks can be quite superb on what they produce for meals.


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## chrisf (2 Aug 2010)

The food in most messes is fantastic, anyone who tells you otherwise is either a picky eater, or looking for an excuse to complain. There's also plenty of unhealthy choices available in the messes, but no one is shoving it down your throat. Just because what they're serving in the steam line on a particular day isn't what you want, nearly every mess also has a huge salad bar. I used to love it, the mounds of fresh veggies, fruit, etc. (Not all, our local mess is terrible... the worst I've ever experienced... the food is typically quite tasty, but deep fried makes up maybe 50% of what they serve, and their salad bar more often then not consists of potato salad, coleslaw, 3 bean salad, and a plate full of cheese. I've asked, quite politely, if they're able to just put out some raw veggies. This polite inquiry eventually made it's way back to our SSM and I was jacked for insulting the kitchen staff. None too please about this.)


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## REDinstaller (2 Aug 2010)

Vimy mess strikes again. :nod:


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## armychick2009 (2 Aug 2010)

I wasn't stating that the food was horrible.... _on the contrary_, a lot of work is put into the meals (in Borden, anyways) and no one went hungry or complained about the food while I was on course. The staff were amazing and very professional and you could tell they took pride in what they were preparing and serving. I was however, comparing it to *what I normally eat* (and EpicBeardedMan) which is more simple (ie, not stuffed chicken, or chicken parmesan or veal cutlets, etc.).  

For something short-term (six to 9 months) I understand I'll be either eating ration packs or boxed lunches or goulash or whatever... _ and it won't be the end of the world as I know it. _ However, the original context in which the food discussion began was in contemplating *long-term* living arrangements. For example, living cheaply in the shacks eating at the mess 52 weeks a year versus spending more money on an apartment but saving by purchasing groceries you prepare yourself to suit your taste.  

In that case,  for someone who is looking at living on base for a few years eating in a style they feel isn't optimal for their own body, it is something to seriously consider. For some people they can eat anything and be fit and strong with little effort. However, for myself  I need to work continually at it and be aware of what I consume. If I can avoid hidden calories and fats, then I do. If I can't, no biggie but I try to make the effort.


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## Pusser (2 Aug 2010)

In moving back to the original intent of this thread, I would like to point out that living in quarters is not necessarily a good way to save money.  The cost of Rations aside, my own experience when I lived in single quarters was that I spent far more money getting out of the place (i.e. going to restaurants when I felt I needed a better meal, going to movies, going out to clubs, etc).  When I finally got an apartment I found that watching TV in my underwear with a bowl of Cheerios was not only pleasurable, but inexpensive.  Mind you, in those days most of us did not have personal computers (certainly no internet), personal TVs in our rooms or cell phones.  Trying to kick off a relationship with a potential partner when your phone number is for the pay phone down the hall is difficult at best and the common room TVs were usually hijacked by some crowd watching a sporting event.


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## REDinstaller (2 Aug 2010)

And the days of a free tv in the common room are over, if the shack even has one left. :'(


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## George Wallace (2 Aug 2010)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> And the days of a free tv in the common room are over, if the shack even has one left. :'(



They've run Cable and Internet/Phone lines to all the rooms.  Some Schools have free wireless.  Many have their own bar fridge in their room these days.  Such social animals.  Only need to leave the shack to eat and work.  In 15 to 20 years we should have a good number of 40 year old virgins.    ;D


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## REDinstaller (2 Aug 2010)

And in Edmonton they want all of these virgins to move out, have to make way for the 19-23 yr olds that don't have the financial skills to make a move downtown possible.


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## George Wallace (2 Aug 2010)

.....And the cycle continues.


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## REDinstaller (2 Aug 2010)

It does, but when does a MCpl sit up and think "Why am I still in the Shacks?". This is what the problem is here, too many senior MCpls and Cpls taking up cheap rooms and banking money, while Buttonhead Tprs have no suitable rooms. Last the RSM said was Accommodations was looking at putting bunkbeds in the rooms if the situation didn't improve.


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## Biggoals2bdone (13 Aug 2010)

Like I said different people have different tastes, requirements etc. I'm an athlete, and the things they serve at the mess CAN do, but really are not ideal...WAY to much pasta/bread vs meat. Also lot of processing, does it taste decent...most days. But I would definitely not go on rations again without having to (i.e course, deployment, etc) Also the other crappy part, is you only get 3 meals, and your last meal is served until 6....Dunno about you guys but I haven't gone to bed without having food between supper and bedtime since I was a lil guy.  For the price you pay, you figure you could get food more often.


There are some items i've had on the menus that I went back for 2-3 times (minus sides) but they are kind of rare, just like I CANNOT eat the steaks at the mess, for an 8ounce piece 4 ounces is grissle and crud...yuk, but usually the fish meals (none fried) are pretty tasty.

For deployments and courses...all I gotta say is protein powders, meal replacement bars/powders, RTD, etc.


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