# No Fitness Test?



## FactorXYZ (3 May 2011)

Hi All,
I just came back from my CFAT/medical today at CFRC Vancouver, and me and the group of people I was with were told by the recruiter before our CFAT, that the process no longer requires applicants to complete a fitness test.They said that BMQ will do all the work of weeding out the unfit. Are other applicants being informed of this as well? Or is there some kind of miscommunication?


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## Container (3 May 2011)

I had been informed of that myself in Manitoba a few weeks ago. Then I switched my app to the reserves and all of the sudden I had a PT test to do- the reserves apparently still requires it but the regs dont. The other weird part? Im not doing the beep test Im doing the step test. Yuck.


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## FactorXYZ (3 May 2011)

Alright, I see thanks for the quick replies


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## Donovanpayne (4 May 2011)

FactorXYZ said:
			
		

> They said that BMQ will do all the work of weeding out the unfit. Are other applicants being informed of this as well? Or is there some kind of miscommunication?



Don't they still have the warrior platoon for all the unfit that arrive there? Or did they disban that idea?

I'm not worried about it, I am curious though.


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## medicineman (4 May 2011)

Last I heard, it was only for people that get injured there...if you fail your initial PT test, it's "Sayanora".

MM


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## jemcgrg (4 May 2011)

I was in Trenton with a guy that ran the fitness tests in St. Jean, and according to him they still have the camp. You have to meet minimum requirements to go there though, if you can't reach those you get sent home. 

I am not quoting this as fact, just second hand information


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## Donovanpayne (4 May 2011)

jemcgrg said:
			
		

> I was in Trenton with a guy that ran the fitness tests in St. Jean, and according to him they still have the camp. You have to meet minimum requirements to go there though, if you can't reach those you get sent home.
> 
> I am not quoting this as fact, just second hand information



Still, it's nice information to know incase something goes wrong. Now I just have to pray that I've been practicing my pushups with proper form...


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## Chrispi (4 May 2011)

While I make no claim to firsthand knowledge about the CF physical testing, when I was younger I completed a physical fitness test for Policing that was regulated pretty stringently.
The push-up requirement had us touch our nose to a gym mat that was approximately 2 inches off the ground.  Additionally, the instructor counting had a tennis ball in his hand, with his hand under our stomach. (He was lying on the ground next to us counting.)  His count increased only when our stomach touched his hand, and our nose touched the mat (must be at the same time).  If just our nose or stomach touched, it didn't count.  To this day, I still have nightmares of doing 50+ what I thought were quality push-ups, but only scoring 47 and hearing him yell "LOWER - THAT'S NOT A PUSH UP!".   :'(

If you're worried about proper form, put something (IE: tennis ball) under your stomach and nose.
Touch your nose and stomach at the same time and you'll know your form is correct and you're getting low enough.

At the very least, you'll be able to eliminate some "LOWER – THAT’S NOT A PUSH UP!" counts.  

Best Wishes




			
				Stacked said:
			
		

> That's exactly why I hope it's still there.  I can do 27 consecutive push ups as it stands now, but if for some unknown reason (Maybe form?) something goes wrong, and I only get 17 or 18 push ups done.. It's nice to know I won't get sent home straight away.
> 
> The way I do my push ups is as follows:
> 
> ...


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## PMedMoe (5 May 2011)

Chrispi said:
			
		

> If you're worried about proper form, put something (IE: tennis ball) under your stomach and nose.
> Touch your nose and stomach at the same time and you'll know your form is correct and you're getting low enough.
> 
> At the very least, you'll be able to eliminate some "LOWER – THAT’S NOT A PUSH UP!" counts.



Just what we need, another fitness "advice" thread.   :

I've posted a link with the proper form for push-ups on here at least three times (I think) and I'll be damned if I'm going to do it again.


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## PMedMoe (6 May 2011)

Stacked said:
			
		

> Aww, C'mon Moe! Once more for old times sake?  ;D



Well, since you asked so nicely.......

http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Esquimalt/EN/FitnessandSports/MilitaryFitness/Documents/EXPRES-Brochure-PushUp.pdf

Now that I really look at the pictures on that poster, the girl seems a little low in the "down" position.  

Oh well.  _*shrugs*_


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## WonderGirl (6 May 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Well, since you asked so nicely.......
> 
> http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Esquimalt/EN/FitnessandSports/MilitaryFitness/Documents/EXPRES-Brochure-PushUp.pdf
> 
> ...



Hey thanks for posting that!  I can get low LOL but I just can't get back up LOL


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## Occam (6 May 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Well, since you asked so nicely.......
> 
> http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Esquimalt/EN/FitnessandSports/MilitaryFitness/Documents/EXPRES-Brochure-PushUp.pdf
> 
> ...



Actually, there's a much better reference.  I'll link to the parent webpage, since there will undoubtably be a new version out this year.

Go to the CFPSA Library page at http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/fitness/library_e.asp, and look for the latest copy of the "CF EXPRES Ops Manual".  That's the bible for the EXPRES testers.


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## PMedMoe (7 May 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> Actually, there's a much better reference.  I'll link to the parent webpage, since there will undoubtably be a new version out this year.
> 
> Go to the CFPSA Library page at http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/fitness/library_e.asp, and look for the latest copy of the "CF EXPRES Ops Manual".  That's the bible for the EXPRES testers.



Yep, that's a good one.   :nod:


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## Ice97 (1 Jul 2011)

Stacked said:
			
		

> Regular Force applicants do not complete the fitness test until they reach St-Jean.



When did they change that?  Not trying to sound meanspirited here...but it seems kind of stupid to waste time, energy and money on enrolling people, buying plane tickets and starting to train people that could verywell just be very unfit and then RTU'd and released because they weren't fitness tested beforehand.


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## Jhunt (1 Jul 2011)

When i was in 5 years ago we did it at the CFRC and the fitness test at BMQ wasnt until 7th week, however alot of people were failing at  BMQ after being sent along by the CFRC. They changed it now so that you do the fitness test as soon as you arrive to BMQ, since the CFRC was sending people to BMQ either way. This way they are not wasting 7 weeks training someone unfit.


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## Tollis (1 Jul 2011)

Ice97 said:
			
		

> When did they change that?  Not trying to sound meanspirited here...but it seems kind of stupid to waste time, energy and money on enrolling people, buying plane tickets and starting to train people that could verywell just be very unfit and then RTU'd and released because they weren't fitness tested beforehand.



It would sound stupid if they were actually administering the Express test at week 0.  However they are only doing an entrance test of sorts.  For males under 35 the minimum requirements to continue training are 4 push ups (sit ups im not certain but likely around 4 as well) 3.5 on the shuttle run and something ridiculously low on the grip test.  Its almost embarrassing in my opinion  I don't think to many people are failing that and being sent home however im sure some still do.

However you must still pass the full CF EXpress test requirements to graduate.  I believe its near week 7 or 8 and you will be sent to warrior platoon for a maximum for 90 days if you fail to meet those requirements.  If you still can't meet requirements then you go home.


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## forumdood007 (7 Jul 2011)

I did BMQ March of last year. A few got the punt after the week 0 express test. How embarrassing! Aim to do double the required number of push ups and sit-ups prior to going. You want to exempt both express tests. I thought that we'd all get so much better by week 8 but was wrong. During those weeks you do a great deal of PT, do a million push ups, sit ups, plank etc as "extra training" (punishment) but none of us improved much, if at all. I just matched my original numbers from week 0. Must be due to the overall training, amount of food/sleep and other factors. This is just my opinion, from my own experience.


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## Wookilar (8 Jul 2011)

I got in almost 20 years ago and I never did a PT test at CFRC Halifax. Didn't know what a push-up was till I hit Cornwallis. Seemed to do OK I guess (still here at any rate).

Point is, this seems to change every few years. Don't get your undergrunders in a bunch over a change in policy. Just give it some time and it will probably change again.

Lord knows that when I'm in charge around here ....  ;D

Wook


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## DogFighting101 (25 Oct 2011)

Little FYI, 

if you fail the Express Test the first time but you are close to passing, they will keep you in BMQ and retest you during week 7 or week 8.


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## Pusser (25 Oct 2011)

Container said:
			
		

> I had been informed of that myself in Manitoba a few weeks ago. Then I switched my app to the reserves and all of the sudden I had a PT test to do- the reserves apparently still requires it but the regs dont. The other weird part? Im not doing the beep test Im doing the step test. Yuck.



Actually the step test is a better test (not that I'm not saying it's the best test) in that it actually takes a quantifiable measure of cardio-vascular fitness (heart rate compared to activity level).  Whereas the beep test is more of a measure of how fast you can run 20 m.


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## PMedMoe (25 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Whereas the beep test is more of a measure of how fast you can run 20 m.



Not true.  That's why each 20 meters is timed.  The shuttle run is to estimate VO2 max.  Unlike the 1.5 mile run we used to do, where you could run your butt off for the first half and then practically walk the rest and still make it under the time.  This did not estimate VO2 max accurately.

Mind you, the shuttle run is an indirect test, which is why it's only an estimate.


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## Pusser (26 Oct 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Not true.  That's why each 20 meters is timed.  The shuttle run is to estimate VO2 max.  Unlike the 1.5 mile run we used to do, where you could run your butt off for the first half and then practically walk the rest and still make it under the time.  This did not estimate VO2 max accurately.
> 
> Mind you, the shuttle run is an indirect test, which is why it's only an estimate.



Understood.  My point though was that the 20m shuttle run does not necessarily give an indication of your fitness level.  It only indicates that you can cover 20 m in the time allotted.  Does the fact that the long-legged track star (who takes 12 steps to cover 20m)can go further in the shuttle run than the short-legged rugby player (who takes 17 steps, thus expending more energy), mean that the long-legged track star is more physically fit than the short-legged rugby player?  Some folks are disadvantaged by the 20 m shuttle run simply because regardless of fitness level, they simply can't run any faster.


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## PMedMoe (26 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Some folks are disadvantaged by the 20 m shuttle run simply because regardless of fitness level, they simply can't run any faster.



Just as folks were disadvantaged by the 1.5 for the same reason.  The difference with the shuttle run is that it controls how fast (or slow) one is going.  If it weren't timed, I could see a lot of people possibly getting to higher levels by going faster at the beginning and slower at the end.

The real gripe is the turning.


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## MJP (26 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Understood.  My point though was that the 20m shuttle run does not necessarily give an indication of your fitness level.  It only indicates that you can cover 20 m in the time allotted.  Does the fact that the long-legged track star (who takes 12 steps to cover 20m)can go further in the shuttle run than the short-legged rugby player (who takes 17 steps, thus expending more energy), mean that the long-legged track star is more physically fit than the short-legged rugby player?  Some folks are disadvantaged by the 20 m shuttle run simply because regardless of fitness level, they simply can't run any faster.



If you don't have the capacity (VO2 max) to run it within the time allotted then it doesn't matter how tall or short you are.  I have seen my share of tall legged folks do horrible at the 20 MSR and vice versa for short folks.  If one is a long legged track star then yes they are going to do better than the short rugby player.  I fall into the latter category and don't feel slighted that I can't run as fast as someone genetically different than me.



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Just as folks were disadvantaged by the 1.5 for the same reason.  The difference with the shuttle run is that it controls how fast (or slow) one is going.  If it weren't timed, I could see a lot of people possibly getting to higher levels by going faster at the beginning and slower at the end.
> 
> The real gripe is the turning.



True dat.  I was working with a co-worker who was having difficulty with the run and he was basically taking to long to turn around.  Worked on the mechanics of actually turning and lo and behold he passed his next attempt.


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## FlyingDutchman (26 Oct 2011)

MJP said:
			
		

> True dat.  I was working with a co-worker who was having difficulty with the run and he was basically taking to long to turn around.  Worked on the mechanics of actually turning and lo and behold he passed his next attempt.


There is a technique to turning? Huh, learn something new everyday.


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## Pusser (26 Oct 2011)

MJP said:
			
		

> True dat.  I was working with a co-worker who was having difficulty with the run and he was basically taking to long to turn around.  Worked on the mechanics of actually turning and lo and behold he passed his next attempt.



And herein lies what I consider to be a fundamental flaw in the test.  PSP staff now run courses on how to pass the ExPres Test.  As opposed to course on how to get fit.  If you train only to pass a very specific test, then I would argue you're focusing in the wrong place and not accomplishing much.


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## MJP (26 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> And herein lies what I consider to be a fundamental flaw in the test.  PSP staff now run courses on how to pass the ExPres Test.  As opposed to course on how to get fit.  If you train only to pass a very specific test, then I would argue you're focusing in the wrong place and not accomplishing much.



Very true and I agree that the 20 MSR is not a great indicator of overall fitness nor for that matter is the rest of the Expres test.  It really is only a predictor of universal CF test known as the Common Military Task Fitness Evaluation (CMTFE).  It is however the test that that has been developed and folks must pass to function in the military.  I don't see what the PSP staff do (by teaching folks how to do the EXpres) as a failure as I believe that fitness within a unit is a function of leadership and a command responsibility.   I am certainly not alone in that belief.  I use the PSP staff to enhance my own understanding, ensure that what I am doing is kosher and as a sounding board when I have a situation without a ready solution.  I don't use them exclusively to get my folks in shape as I feel that is my responsibility.


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## JMacNavy (27 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Understood.  My point though was that the 20m shuttle run does not necessarily give an indication of your fitness level.  It only indicates that you can cover 20 m in the time allotted.  Does the fact that the long-legged track star (who takes 12 steps to cover 20m)can go further in the shuttle run than the short-legged rugby player (who takes 17 steps, thus expending more energy), mean that the long-legged track star is more physically fit than the short-legged rugby player?  Some folks are disadvantaged by the 20 m shuttle run simply because regardless of fitness level, they simply can't run any faster.



If you believe that it is unfair to short-legged rugby player remember this, when it comes time for pullups and pushups you are at a great advantage with shorter arms. Just because a person has short legs does not give them an excuse not to keep up. The same can be said for us long legged, long arm soldiers when it comes to pushups.


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