# Pay increments



## dunkski (29 May 2007)

Hello,

I am hoping someone can help me...I have found many documents explaining the pay scales but I haven't found any information that tells me when you move up pay increments. For example: when would one move from Private Pay Increment 1: $2484/month to Private Pay Increment 2: $3038/month etc. Is it based upon when you finish BMQ/SQ etc or are the pay increments based upon years of service?

Thanks in advance!

Chris.


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## Teflon (29 May 2007)

After each year in rank


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## dunkski (29 May 2007)

Thanks Teflon!


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## Teflon (29 May 2007)

Always willing to help when I can


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## medaid (29 May 2007)

Keep in mind that each 'year' in rank differs.

So, in your Pte ranks, it moves up on the anniversary of your enrollment date, because that's the day you became a Pte.
Once you get promoted, it goes up on the anniversary of your PROMOTION date, and these will vary.


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## dunkski (29 May 2007)

Thanks for the clarification MedTech.


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## PO2FinClk (29 May 2007)

CBI & CFAO 204 explain all these in great detail.


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## Michael OLeary (29 May 2007)

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> CBI & CFAO 204 explain all these in great detail.



The original poster, and others who find this thread, may have absolutely no ideas what a "CBI" or a "CFAO" might be.  Please provide links and explanations where possible.

Thank you

Army.ca Staff


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## Dog (30 May 2007)

What is the requirement for a reserve promotion? If you are a private, who just finished his 3's, but has more than 365 days of service, are you eligible for promotion to corporal? Or do you have to serve for another 2 years on class A as a trained private in order to be promoted?

I've poked around on the DND website and have found numerous things talking about accelerated promotions, and promotions in general, but nothing specific enough to answer the above question. Anybody know for sure? Anybody have an EDUCATED guess?


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## medaid (30 May 2007)

Two years from the time you were a private. Another words the instant you enrolled, complete your required courses for promotion, and as long as you've served 2 years as a Pte, you are eligible. 

Remember this just makes you eligible for promotion. This does NOT mean you will be promoted.


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## PO2FinClk (30 May 2007)

For those not aware of what CBI or CFAO stands for or where to find them, refer to this thread (found at the very top of the Mil Admin Forum): http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/60485.0.html

Promotion Criteria's:
Reg Force NCM's: CFAO 49-4 http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-04_e.asp
Res Force NCM's" CFAO 49-5 http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-05_e.asp

Pay Policy:
QR&O 204's: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol3/Ch204_e.asp#204.015
CBI 204's: http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6
CFAO 204-2 is one, search listing under "Pay": http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/toc_e.asp


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## Dog (1 Jun 2007)

I guess the next question I have is; what is the equivalent of 2 years in the reserves? Is it actually 2 years of weekends and evenings? Or is there a certain number of total days that equals 2 reserve years? 
This will affect how quickly I will apply for a CT, if I can get promoted and get a class B, and snag a few more career courses, then I'll stay with my unit (for a while) if not, then back to the regs I go!


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## Pte AJB (1 Jun 2007)

Dog said:
			
		

> I guess the next question I have is; what is the equivalent of 2 years in the reserves? Is it actually 2 years of weekends and evenings? Or is there a certain number of total days that equals 2 reserve years?
> This will affect how quickly I will apply for a CT, if I can get promoted and get a class B, and snag a few more career courses, then I'll stay with my unit (for a while) if not, then back to the regs I go!



Two years in the reserves is calculated from your enrollment date. if you enrolled June 1, 2005 you would be eligible for promotion to Corporal today. However, ranks and courses are not 100% transferable. I know two MCpl. types, both attempted to CT one was offered a position as a Pte. and the other a Cpl. It come down to individual experience (courses, tours, etc.) . I believe it is minimum four years to become a Cpl. in reg force, while it is two in the reserves, so you can see how the experience level differs between the two. However, in terms of pay scale the CF will never pay you less than what you were earning in a previous rank. If you are say, a reserve Cpl. then a transfer to the regs as a Pte. would not entail a reduction in salary.


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## geo (1 Jun 2007)

... two years as the crow flies.
- no consideration for full time / part time
- one
- two
pass your course and there you go!


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## Dog (2 Jun 2007)

Humph.... that's too bad. Back to the regs I go!

Well, thanks for the response.


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## Civvymedic (2 Jun 2007)

What if under some circumstances you were granted QL3 after basic or something similar. As in my case, I'm a civilian Advanced Care Paramedic, 10 years in practice who may be given some standing.

Would I start at the 2484 a month or a higher pay grade after basic or still be required to wait for anniversary dates before moving up the pay chart?

Thanks.


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## kratz (2 Jun 2007)

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> For those not aware of what CBI or CFAO stands for or where to find them, refer to this thread (found at the very top of the Mil Admin Forum): http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/60485.0.html



In addition to the references that *PO2FinClk* posted, anyone in the Naval Reserve also needs to refer MARCORD 9-1, Vol 1 with respect to attending the minimum (and maximum) number of training days for the ICP.


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## medaid (3 Jun 2007)

You would come in as semi-skilled. You would most likely start off at a Cpl rank. Yes to anniversary dates. It's the way EVERYONE's promotion and pay increments move. No exceptions.


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## Civvymedic (3 Jun 2007)

Thanks MED TECH

Big role to fill starting out with rank. How would a civilian medic be received coming in like that? I guess it depends on the individual.

So would you start out with Privates pay or be paid to your rank as a Corporal?


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## CrazyCanuck (3 Jun 2007)

I've been wondering, are there any circumstances under which a reserve pte would be promoted to a cpl before 2 years in?


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## adaminc (3 Jun 2007)

I'd also like to know how someone would be received instant promotion after bmq for being semi-skilled, I will be going into my 3rd(and last) year of electronics engineering technology and I plan on joining as regF LCIS Tech after that in about 1 year.


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## Wookilar (3 Jun 2007)

As semiskilled, you will get advanced standing as a Pte after BMQ (which means higher pay). If your trade qualifications are sufficient, you may only do partial QL3 (maybe even partial QL5) to complete that level of training. In most tech trades, you need QL5 to qualify for Cpl.

The only "instant" promotions to Cpl I have ever seen after Basic where individuals that were previously trades qualified, released and then re-enrolled.

Wook


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## PO2FinClk (3 Jun 2007)

adaminc said:
			
		

> I'd also like to know how someone would be received instant promotion after bmq for being semi-skilled, I will be going into my 3rd(and last) year of electronics engineering technology and I plan on joining as regF LCIS Tech after that in about 1 year.


For critical manning trades such as LCIS there are often specific enrollment programs, which allows for what is mentioned herein as semi skilled. However each is different and distinct from one another based on the MOS requirements. Anyone wishing to enrol who already have a s specified skillset should contact their CFRC to obtain exact details about each.


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## George Wallace (3 Jun 2007)

adaminc said:
			
		

> I'd also like to know how someone would be received instant promotion after bmq for being semi-skilled, I will be going into my 3rd(and last) year of electronics engineering technology and I plan on joining as regF LCIS Tech after that in about 1 year.



I have a friend who is currently enrolled and on his LCIS Crse in Kingston.  He also has a College Deploma in Electronics, but finds most of the training to be all new to him.  He is a member of this site, and perhaps he can set you straight on some of your questions on these matters.  You will have to do POET before you do your LCIS Crse, so it is a long and demanding path before you finally graduate and get posted to a Unit.  

You may get a promotion to Cpl on graduation, but be forwarned that there are rules that apply to "Advanced Promotions" that can affect your career later.


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## George Wallace (3 Jun 2007)

From the CFAO s at this link you will find this"



> *ANNEX B -- ACCELERATED PROMOTION GENERAL*
> 1.     A CO may nominate for accelerated promotion members with outstanding
> ability, leadership, or supervisory potential. Accelerated promotion to Cpl
> must be in recognition of demonstrated outstanding performance as a
> ...



If you want to follow/investigate the references, they are on the link above.  There are also links to the QR&O s and DAOD s for those who want to did deeper.



> *ANNEX B, APPENDIX 1 -- PREREQUISITES FOR ACCELERATED PROMOTION*
> *TABLE 1 -- PTE TO CPL*
> 
> For
> ...



If you want more, then use these as a start to find what you want through the links provided.

CFAO 49-4 -- CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS REGULAR FORCE


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## George Wallace (3 Jun 2007)

Boater said:
			
		

> I've been wondering, are there any circumstances under which a reserve pte would be promoted to a cpl before 2 years in?



Try reading CFAO 49-5 -- CAREER POLICY - NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER -PRIMARY RESERVE.


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## PO2FinClk (4 Jun 2007)

For LCIS & ATIS, due to their manning shortages several people with the "right" skillset were bypass POET & QL3 in recent years. These pers are considered "Direct Entry Enrollee's" However, you must have the exact skillset which their are looking for as determined by CFSCE Stds & CFRG, so the best place to ask is at the CFRC itself. If any are still  ongoing, CFRC's will have the ability to provide you with all the paritcular information pertaining to these two occupations and the specific & unique enrollment programs available for each.

This is not to say that the CFAO's George mentions above are not applicable, quite to the contrary as they will guide you career post enrollement.


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## Disenchantedsailor (10 Jun 2007)

P2 FinClerk ? for you

currently an OCdt payed as CPL IPC/3 due to the ISS program I was selected for will I recieve an IPC increase as I would have if I had stayed in my former trade until the end of BOTP Ph II in december??

Thanks


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## George Wallace (10 Jun 2007)

As you are being paid as a Cpl IPC/3 you will continue to be paid at that Level until such time as your Rank entitles you to be paid at that Rank Scale.  I am sure that if you follow the previous links, you will find the official word, and that is all that P2 FinClerk can quote you.  As an OCdt, it is time to start getting used to researching CFAO's, QR&O's, DOAD's and other DND Administrative links, as you will have to be the 'expert' when you get to 'lead men'.


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## kincanucks (10 Jun 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As you are being paid as a Cpl IPC/3 you will continue to be paid at that Level until such time as your Rank entitles you to be paid at that Rank Scale.  I am sure that if you follow the previous links, you will find the official word, and that is all that P2 FinClerk can quote you.  As an OCdt, it is time to start getting used to researching CFAO's, QR&O's, DOAD's and other DND Administrative links, as you will have to be the 'expert' when you get to 'lead men'.



+1.  Lazy OCDTs.


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## medaid (10 Jun 2007)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> +1.  Lazy OCDTs.




Oy! HEY HEY HEY! I'm LESS then LAZY there kincanucks  that hurt my feelings greatly!  :'(


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## Disenchantedsailor (10 Jun 2007)

lazy OCDT's eh hows this 10 years in the CBI's change near daily and the ones regarding pay are almost completely written in NDHQese, so forgive me for asking the SME for advice (by the way the last tp cdr/divo I asked for advice on pay matters cost me nearly $2600 because he didn't know and instead of sending me the way of the pay office winged it) but then again I always thought that was a sign of leadership asking the sr NCO's for adivce


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> lazy OCDT's eh hows this 10 years in the CBI's change near daily and the ones regarding pay are almost completely written in NDHQese, so forgive me for asking the SME for advice (by the way the last tp cdr/divo I asked for advice on pay matters cost me nearly $2600 because he didn't know and instead of sending me the way of the pay office winged it) but then again I always thought that was a sign of leadership asking the sr NCO's for adivce



Very nice.  If you go to the CFAO's, QR&O's and DAOD's in the links and looked up Vested Rights, and what a member is entitled to and then the CF Pay Scales (Links in another Thread) you will find the info necessary to answer the original question.  Now we are wasting time.


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/pdf/cfpn6_02_ef.pdf
Page 3


> Vested rights insured that people did not lose money
> when commissioned from the ranks or when the CF
> mandated a change to a member's career. Under
> vested rights, a corporal appointed to officer cadet in
> ...



http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-04_e.asp

Where is my Staples "EASY" Button?

Pick out the paragraphs that pertain to you:



> CFAO 49-4 -- CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS REGULAR FORCE
> 
> PURPOSE
> 1.     This order amplifies QR&O chapters 11 and 14, and prescribes the
> ...



Much more to follow......


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

Continued:





> COUNSELLING AND PROBATION
> 17.    A member is not eligible for promotion during a period of probation.
> COMPASSIONATE STATUS18.    Cpls and above who are on compassionate status in accordance with 20-4,
> Compassionate Status and Postings-- Regular Force, shall be considered
> ...


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

STILL MORE:


> CONTENTS OF ANNEXES
> 45.    This order contains the following annexes:
> Annex A-- Promotion-- Eligibility Criteria
> Annex B-- Accelerated Promotion
> ...


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

> TABLE 7 -CAREER PROGRESSION PATTERN MARINE ENGINEERING TECHNICIAN TRAINING PLAN (METTP) ST. LAWRENCE COLLEGE (CORNWALL)
> (SLCSL)
> 
> Minimum                                                                                      General Prerequisites
> ...


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ANNEX B, APPENDIX 2 -- DELEGATED AUTHORITY PROMOTION SYSTEM (DAPS)
> GENERAL
> 
> ...


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## 284_226 (11 Jun 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As you are being paid as a Cpl IPC/3 you will continue to be paid at that Level until such time as your Rank entitles you to be paid at that Rank Scale.  I am sure that if you follow the previous links, you will find the official word, and that is all that P2 FinClerk can quote you.  As an OCdt, it is time to start getting used to researching CFAO's, QR&O's, DOAD's and other DND Administrative links, as you will have to be the 'expert' when you get to 'lead men'.



See CBI 204.211 (10)(a).  He'll get any incentive increases he would have received had he not been appointed OCdt.



> (10) (Officer Cadet – former non-commissioned member) An officer cadet who is appointed directly to that rank from a non-commissioned rank shall be paid:
> 
> 1. if the member was a non-commissioned member of the Regular Force, at the rate of pay which, including any upward adjustments to the rates of pay determined under subparagraphs (i) and (ii) that may be established from time to time, and any upward adjustments resulting from the reallocation of the last military occupation in which the member served as a non-commissioned member to a higher trade group, is the greater of the rate of pay established for
> a. the rank, pay increment, pay level and trade group held on the day immediately prior to the date of appointment to the rank of officer cadet, or
> b. any higher pay increment to which the member would have become entitled had the member remained in the former rank, pay level and trade group as a non-commissioned member; and


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

Still more: 





> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ANNEX B, APPENDIX 4 -- ACCELERATED PROMOTION PTE TO CPL
> COMMAND CEILINGS
> 
> ...


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

Disregard any smilies in the quotes - as they are a result of the code misinterpreting the printed matter.  Look in the actual document for the correct data.

Still reading?  





> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ANNEX E -- TERMS OFFERED ON ENROLMENT, TRANSFER, AND OCCUPATION TRANSFER (OT)GENERAL
> 1.     Except as specified in 6-1, the rank, seniority, and QL
> authorized on enrolment or transfer shall be determined by NDHQ/DPCOR.
> ...


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## Roy Harding (11 Jun 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> lazy OCDT's eh hows this 10 years in the CBI's change near daily and the ones regarding pay are almost completely written in NDHQese, so forgive me for asking the SME for advice (by the way the last tp cdr/divo I asked for advice on pay matters cost me nearly $2600 because he didn't know and instead of sending me the way of the pay office winged it) but then again I always thought that was a sign of leadership asking the sr NCO's for adivce



You're right about the changing regs.

When I was a new Clk, all our pubs were printed - an amendment list came out every two weeks (as I recall - timing may have been different, but it was on a regular schedule), there was a brief synopsis sheet on the front, which was passed around, and everybody knew what had been amended.  The junior clerk physically entered the amendments into the book.  I worked for two Chief Clerks who (no kidding) had the majority of the CFAOs and QR&Os MEMORIZED.  When an amendment came out, they knew what had changed, and read those amendments.  Even for those of us with less prodigious memories, it was possible to "know" the answer without looking it up, if it was an area with which you were familiar.

When the current electronic system came in, it was no longer possible to do this (even I had a LOT of the CFAOs memorized).  You NEVER knew when there had been an amendment - this meant that a Clk had to PHYSICALLY LOOK UP THE ANSWER, every time there was a question - you THOUGHT you knew, but you could never be sure.  This lead to a significantly increased time for clerks to answer counter queries.

Of course, then we amalgamated three trades, leaving even LESS time for Clks to answer questions - do you see where I'm headed here?

Taking care of your troops is a LEADERSHIP function - not a clerical one.  Clerks can ASSIST you with that function, but they can't DO it for you.  If you desire to be an effective officer, you need to get familiar with the pubs - and THAT is all George and kincanuks were attempting to steer you toward realizing.  (Oh - and learning NDHQese is ALSO a required skill for Officers (and Sr NCO/WOs).

HANFD


Roy


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## George Wallace (11 Jun 2007)

And hopefully the last of it:  





> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ANNEX G -- COMPLETION AND DISTRIBUTION OF MODIFIED FORM CF 743AGENERAL
> 1.     Form CF 743A, UER Qualification Record Sheet (QRS), modified as shown
> at Appendix 1, shall be completed for:
> ...



Now?

WASN'T THAT EASY?


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## kincanucks (11 Jun 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Oy! HEY HEY HEY! I'm LESS then LAZY there kincanucks  that hurt my feelings greatly!  :'(



Of course not all OCDTs are lazy.  How is that princess? ;D


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## kincanucks (11 Jun 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> lazy OCDT's eh hows this 10 years in the CBI's change near daily and the ones regarding pay are almost completely written in NDHQese, so forgive me for asking the SME for advice (by the way the last tp cdr/divo I asked for advice on pay matters cost me nearly $2600 because he didn't know and instead of sending me the way of the pay office winged it) but then again I always thought that was a sign of leadership asking the sr NCO's for adivce



Learn how to make coffee and photocopies and talk less and read more.


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## Journeyman (11 Jun 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> You're right about the changing regs.
> 
> When I was a new Clk, all our pubs were printed - an amendment list came out every two weeks (as I recall - timing may have been different, but it was on a regular schedule), there was a brief synopsis sheet on the front, which was passed around, and everybody knew what had been amended.  The junior clerk physically entered the amendments into the book.  I worked for two Chief Clerks who (no kidding) had the majority of the CFAOs and QR&Os MEMORIZED.  When an amendment came out, they knew what had changed, and read those amendments.  Even for those of us with less prodigious memories, it was possible to "know" the answer without looking it up, if it was an area with which you were familiar.
> 
> When the current electronic system came in, it was no longer possible to do this (even I had a LOT of the CFAOs memorized).  You NEVER knew when there had been an amendment - this meant that a Clk had to PHYSICALLY LOOK UP THE ANSWER, every time there was a question - you THOUGHT you knew, but you could never be sure.



Wow.....an enlightening moment. I'm guilty of having thought (quite often in some units  : ), that clerks "used to be so switched on." Where my default was to blame the generation/training system/Vitamin D deficiency/etc.....it hadn't occurred to me to consider the means of promulgation. I remember, as a Duty NCO in one unit, a recurring task was to ink-amend CFAOs (especially if you had neat handwriting). And I did draw Duty on a semi-regular basis   :-[

How about that.....despite having spent the day in NDHQ, I just now learned something


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## geo (12 Jun 2007)

"clerks used to be switched on"???.....

Naw - they didn't have an on/off switch....


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## Roy Harding (13 Jun 2007)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> ... I remember, as a Duty NCO in one unit, a recurring task was to ink-amend CFAOs (especially if you had neat handwriting). And I did draw Duty on a semi-regular basis   :-[
> ...



So - I take it that you have neat handwriting, and that's why you drew so many duties??

As a matter of fact, it was my MESSY handwriting that got me hooked into the trade of Adm Clk.  It's a long story, which I may have told elsewhere here.


Roy


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## LittlePammy (2 Jul 2007)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> As semiskilled, you will get advanced standing as a Pte after BMQ (which means higher pay). If your trade qualifications are sufficient, you may only do partial QL3 (maybe even partial QL5) to complete that level of training. In most tech trades, you need QL5 to qualify for Cpl.
> 
> The only "instant" promotions to Cpl I have ever seen after Basic where individuals that were previously trades qualified, released and then re-enrolled.
> 
> Wook



I entered as semi skilled Direct entry.  I came in as a Cpl upon succesfull completion of my BMQ.  I received my promotion on my grad parade at BMQ.  I was never in the reg or reserves before.  I just happen to have a #$%^ load of education to come in as a Cpl.  In the tech trades (I am an ATIS tech)  you come in QL3 by- pass if you come in DE.  However not QL5.  No you don't need your QL5 to be promoted to Cpl.  The LCIS techs don't even have a course yet (they are still working on that in Kingston, should be soon they have it up and running) and ATIS techs have a OJT (On the Job Training) package.  I have been in for 1.5 years and have just finished my OJT pkg and should be getting my spec pay shortly.  You only need the QL5 for spec not for your Cpl's.  Hope this clarifies.  

P


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## 284_226 (2 Jul 2007)

LittlePammy said:
			
		

> I have been in for 1.5 years and have just finished my OJT pkg



1.5 years to do your Journeyman package???

I take it you had a hard time getting signatures for the airfield stuff, right?


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## aesop081 (2 Jul 2007)

LittlePammy said:
			
		

> You only need the QL5 for spec not for your Cpl's.



If i were you i would go re-check your facts.

As per http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/2006NCMRegFPay_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28  you CANNOT be in receipt of pay in the specialist 1 or 2 trade groups as a private, regardless of QL.  You must be a CPL. If you come is as a CPL and are not QL5A qualified, your MOSID is anotated "junior" and will not be in receipt of pay in the spec 1 or 2 trade groups until so qualified.


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## 284_226 (2 Jul 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> If i were you i would go re-check your facts.
> 
> As per http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/2006NCMRegFPay_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28  you CANNOT be in receipt of pay in the specialist 1 or 2 trade groups as a private, regardless of QL.  You must be a CPL. If you come is as a CPL and are not QL5A qualified, your MOSID is anotated "junior" and will not be in receipt of pay in the spec 1 or 2 trade groups until so qualified.



That's what she said.  QL5 is a prerequisite for spec pay, not for the rank of Cpl.  She stated that she's almost finished her OJT package, which will give her QL5 and spec pay to go with the two hooks she already has.


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## aesop081 (2 Jul 2007)

284_226 said:
			
		

> That's what she said.  QL5 is a prerequisite for spec pay, not for the rank of Cpl.  She stated that she's almost finished her OJT package, which will give her QL5 and spec pay to go with the two hooks she already has.



Gotcha......was reading english in french again  :-\


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## 284_226 (2 Jul 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Gotcha......was reading english in french again  :-\



No prob...wife does it all the time, but she can blame it on both pregnancy *and* being bilingual.


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## Disenchantedsailor (2 Jul 2007)

284_226 said:
			
		

> That's what she said.  QL5 is a prerequisite for spec pay, not for the rank of Cpl.  She stated that she's almost finished her OJT package, which will give her QL5 and spec pay to go with the two hooks she already has.


QL5 is also a requirement for the Corporal rank until that goal is reached (or interim qual for trades without) the corporal rank is either Cpl(P) Provisional or A/L see CFAO 49-4 annex A Table 1 and annex B para 7,  http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-04_e.asp


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## LittlePammy (2 Jul 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> If i were you i would go re-check your facts.
> 
> As per http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/2006NCMRegFPay_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28  you CANNOT be in receipt of pay in the specialist 1 or 2 trade groups as a private, regardless of QL.  You must be a CPL. If you come is as a CPL and are not QL5A qualified, your MOSID is anotated "junior" and will not be in receipt of pay in the spec 1 or 2 trade groups until so qualified.



That is exactly what I was trying to say.   Someone had stated that you needed your QL 5 before you could get your Cpl's.  I was saying no that you don't need it for your Cpl's, you need your QL5 (as a Cpl) for your spec.  I don't recall ever saying for a Pte.  I am not a Pte.


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## LittlePammy (2 Jul 2007)

284_226 said:
			
		

> 1.5 years to do your Journeyman package???
> 
> I take it you had a hard time getting signatures for the airfield stuff, right?



No, had a hard time getting my 5's started.  Long story to do with some higher ups not agreeing with DE's.  It finally took a pissed off Career Manager to make a phone call to get my 5's started.   Only took a few weeks to get it all signed off.


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## 284_226 (2 Jul 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> QL5 is also a requirement for the Corporal rank until that goal is reached (or interim qual for trades without) the corporal rank is either Cpl(P) Provisional or A/L see CFAO 49-4 annex A Table 1 and annex B para 7,  http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-04_e.asp



Which, for the ATIS and LCIS trades she was referring to, is the case - personnel who join the trades as skilled or semi-skilled are enrolled as Cpls (albeit provisional) until completion of their OJT/Journeyman package.

Worded another way, I guess you could say that QL5 is a prerequisite for the rank of substantive Cpl.


----------



## 284_226 (2 Jul 2007)

LittlePammy said:
			
		

> No, had a hard time getting my 5's started.  Long story to do with some higher ups not agreeing with DE's.  It finally took a pissed off Career Manager to make a phone call to get my 5's started.   Only took a few weeks to get it all signed off.



Wow, that's a lot of change you missed out on while they were playing silly games.  Consider grieving it?

It's not like you're the first skilled or semi-skilled entrant we've ever had, so they should've had their ducks in a row on the rules you'd fall under.


----------



## LittlePammy (2 Jul 2007)

284_226 said:
			
		

> Wow, that's a lot of change you missed out on while they were playing silly games.  Consider grieving it?



Most definitely!!!!


----------



## Disenchantedsailor (4 Jul 2007)

284_226 said:
			
		

> Which, for the ATIS and LCIS trades she was referring to, is the case - personnel who join the trades as skilled or semi-skilled are enrolled as Cpls (albeit provisional) until completion of their OJT/Journeyman package.
> 
> Worded another way, I guess you could say that QL5 is a prerequisite for the rank of substantive Cpl.


Thats all I was getting at - thats also what makes the spec pay kick in is the removal of provisional status


----------



## PO2FinClk (5 Jul 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> Thats all I was getting at - thats also what makes the spec pay kick in is the removal of provisional status


... and of the A/L.


----------



## LittlePammy (5 Jul 2007)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> Thats all I was getting at - thats also what makes the spec pay kick in is the removal of provisional status


No spec doesn't commence once your provisional is removed.   For an ATIS tech, you have to do your OJT 5's Pkg and then once everything is signed off and sent up the chain, then does your spec pay kick in.


----------



## LittlePammy (5 Jul 2007)

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> ... and of the A/L.



Yes, once your 5's qualified, then your Acting/lacking is removed.


----------



## brendanthompson (22 Jun 2010)

Hey I'm just wondering if everyone gets a raise after Basic... I was getting $680ish and on the 15th I got about $930...  It seems like too big of raise to be true to me so I'm wondering if it's backpay or what.

If anyone has an answer for me that's great else I'll just wait 8 more days to find out.


----------



## Drift Pin (22 Jun 2010)

You might want to ask your clerk

The extra cash could be there for any number of reasons.  A claim for example.


----------



## Michael OLeary (22 Jun 2010)

And don't spend it until you're certain. If it's been put there in error the system will be taking it back off your next pay(s).


----------



## dapaterson (22 Jun 2010)

Look at your pay statement - it shoul have the details.

And fi you can't understand your pay statement, learn - it's a key skill.


----------



## stealthylizard (24 Jun 2010)

You used to get field pay from your week 9, 11 and 12, but I don't know if they still do that since LDA came into effect.  That also sounds about right for the amount of a raise one gets moving from Pte(R) to Pte(B), but double check to make sure.


----------



## Nesopgal (26 Jun 2010)

They still get field pay. It would make sense!


----------



## Biggoals2bdone (26 Jun 2010)

ummmm last time I checked you dont get a raise when you go from Pte(R) to Pte(B)...thats just saying you've done BMQ...just like you don't get a raise when you go from Pte(B) to Pte(T) thats just a designator to show quals...your pay goes up YEARLY on the anniversary of your enrolment (as far as Ptes go) every rank after your pay goes up on the anniversary of your promotion.


----------



## X291R (26 Jun 2010)

You won't receive Incentive Pay Category 2 until after you've had 12 months service.  I sounds like it maybe a travel claim settlement or Casual Land Duty Allowance - Check with you pay clerk.


----------



## kkramar (12 Jul 2010)

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I've been searching for some answers about the promotions system and pay increments. I've have found out that from going from Corporal to Master Corporal you get the same pay increment. Example: Corporal increment 3 = Master Corporal 3. When you eventually get promoted to Sergeant to you go from MCpl. 4 to Sgt. 4, or MCpl. 4 to Sgt. 1. 

Also these links in this thread are all error 404, so is most of the info posted by George still current or can anyone direct me to current pay and promotion information.

kkramar.


----------



## dapaterson (12 Jul 2010)

Only when appointed MCpl do you retain your IPC.  Thus, a Cpl 3 becomes a MCpl 3.

However, on promotion to Sgt you return to Sgt Basic, moving to Sgt 1 after 1 year, then to Sgt 2...


----------



## George Wallace (12 Jul 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I've been searching for some answers about the promotions system and pay increments. I've have found out that from going from Corporal to Master Corporal you get the same pay increment. Example: Corporal increment 3 = Master Corporal 3. When you eventually get promoted to Sergeant to you go from MCpl. 4 to Sgt. 4, or MCpl. 4 to Sgt. 1.
> 
> Also these links in this thread are all error 404, so is most of the info posted by George still current or can anyone direct me to current pay and promotion information.
> 
> kkramar.



Did you read this topic?



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> CAUTION
> 
> Pay Scales subject to change annually........or without warning.
> 
> ...




Those links currently work.


----------



## kkramar (12 Jul 2010)

I'll admit I didn't read every single word. But I tried to skim through most of it and try to see some headline sections that caught my eye. The links I hit didn't work for me.


----------



## George Wallace (12 Jul 2010)

And those (broken) links are where?


----------



## kkramar (12 Jul 2010)

So far pretty much every link up to page three. Haven't gotten to the others yet.


----------



## kkramar (12 Jul 2010)

Every link in this thread gives a 404 error.


----------



## aesop081 (12 Jul 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> Every link in this thread gives a 404 error.



http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/pr-sol/rfncmr-mrfr-eng.asp

That i got from a few posts above works just fine......


----------



## kkramar (12 Jul 2010)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/pr-sol/rfncmr-mrfr-eng.asp
> 
> That i got from a few posts above works just fine......



Probably because he just posted that, and the links he posted wasn't even from the same thread.  

I resurrected a 3 year old dead thread.


----------



## g_12 (26 May 2011)

Starting August my transfer from the Reserves to Reg Force will be complete. Ill be doing NCMSEP.
For the first year I have a salary of 32000 and the second year 38000.

Now what im trying to figure out is how much of that money is take home money, because i need to plan my life according to the salary, ie where to live and if ill be able to afford a vehical.

Ive talked to my unit and the recruiting office and no one knows.

So are there any private out there who can tell me how much they take home monthly on 32000?

Thank you.


----------



## kratz (26 May 2011)

Why do people come to this site to be spoon fed answers?
The worst part is many are accepted at the "higher" entry level for some reason:

$32,000 gross
(-$4,800) 15% Federal tax  
(-$1584) 4.95% CPP max
(-$553.60) 1.73% EI max
(-$3200) CFSA, 10% pension plan
(-$960) SDB, 3% death benefit

$20,902.40 potential net pay or $871 every two weeks, without asking us to take time out of our beauty sleep to answer the same question again...and again..and...I should count these to go to sleep.  :nod:

Dedict rations and quarters from that $871 as your situation demands.

No this does NOT answer all financial questions. This is to stress, you should look up your own answers.


----------



## g_12 (26 May 2011)

I had no idea what to look up, thank u.


----------



## Pusser (26 May 2011)

As for staring the Reg Force, yes we allow it under certain circumstances.  You're allowed to stare at the wall/bulkhead when being "gently counselled" by the RSM/Coxswain. ;D


----------



## 421_434_226 (26 May 2011)

As of 2010 while in Quebec during BMQ

NCM – Private Single
Pay Rate			2663.00
SDB			-6.45
EI			-36.22
CF Pension $ CPP		-265.50
SISIP-LTD			-4.56
Tax (Fed & Prov)		-388.46	
PPIP			-13.47
Sales Tax			-0.58
Quarters (bed space)		-92.00
Rations			-493.82
Net Pay			1361.94


NCM – Private Married
Pay Rate			2663.00
SDB			-6.45
EI			-36.22
CF Pension $ CPP		-265.50
SISIP-LTD			-4.56
Tax (Fed & Prov)		-388.46	
PPIP			-13.47
Sales Tax			-0.58
Quarters (bed space)		-0.00
Rations			-0.00
Net Pay			1919.12


----------



## Romanmaz (30 May 2011)

Gizmo 421 said:
			
		

> As of 2010 while in Quebec during BMQ
> 
> NCM – Private Single
> Pay Rate			2663.00
> ...


What happened to equality  :2c:


----------



## MJP (30 May 2011)

Romanmaz said:
			
		

> What happened to equality  :2c:



They get paid exactly the same amount.  One has another residence and dependants that they have to pay for and therefore is not penalized for being married/CL by making them pay for two residences.  The single dude does not have another residence and therefore has to pay for his rations and quarters.  There is nothing sinister or unequal about it at all.



edited for grammar...


----------



## aesop081 (30 May 2011)

Romanmaz said:
			
		

> What happened to equality  :2c:



There is no inequality there. You can get off your soapbox now.......


----------



## Romanmaz (30 May 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> There is no inequality there. You can get off your soapbox now.......


My soapbox? Is that supposed to be an insult? I guess sarcasm doesn't really work on the internet... :facepalm:


----------



## Michael OLeary (30 May 2011)

[sarcasm]When dealing with an audience that may include those who take the discourse seriously, and in some cases literally, it helps if you use the correct markup.[/sarcasm]


----------



## Romanmaz (31 May 2011)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> [sarcasm]When dealing with an audience that may include those who take the discourse seriously, and in some cases literally, it helps if you use the correct markup.[/sarcasm]


Point taken


----------



## pdupre (3 Jun 2011)

Gizmo 421 said:
			
		

> As of 2010 while in Quebec during BMQ
> 
> NCM – Private Single
> Pay Rate			2663.00
> ...



I have a small question about the quarters and rations payment, I've read somewhere that if you have a renting contract you also do not have to pay the Quarters, rations, but somewhere else you also needed to be married, can I get a clarification on that? Because if I still have to pay 620$ for my rent per month + electricity, car etc I'm going to have a hard time for some times


----------



## aesop081 (3 Jun 2011)

If you are single and own a home/rent...you will not pay quarters but you will pay rations.

If you are married you will not pay either one.


----------



## pdupre (3 Jun 2011)

Thanks


----------



## 421_434_226 (3 Jun 2011)

Don't forget that common law is considered legally married. If you are single without any dependents or roommates and rent your accommodation, and expect to move away from your home area after BMQ I would recommend that you place your belongings in storage until you receive your first posting.


----------



## g_12 (5 Jun 2011)

As a NCMSEP personal would I be subjected to ration costs? since ill be going to school out side the army and buying my own food?


----------



## Occam (5 Jun 2011)

g_12 said:
			
		

> As a NCMSEP personal would I be subjected to ration costs? since ill be going to school out side the army and buying my own food?



No, if you're going to civvie college under NCM-SEP, while living in your own apartment/house/etc., you won't be paying rations or quarters.


----------



## g_12 (24 Jun 2011)

So if my expencse for rent is 600 the army will help pay for that?


----------



## MJP (24 Jun 2011)

g_12 said:
			
		

> So if my expencse for rent is 600 the army will help pay for that?


No you use your salary to pay for that.


----------



## g_12 (25 Jun 2011)

Thank you, these 2 years wont be as hard on cash as i had thought.


----------



## g_12 (24 Jul 2011)

When calculating the percentages like tax CI ect. Do you calculate it all from gross income? or do u take away one, then the next percentage to the remainder?


----------



## Ayrsayle (24 Jul 2011)

If you take a look at the examples (IE the numbers and percents) Kratz already provided above, you can answer your own question rather easily.


----------



## Pusser (31 Jul 2011)

g_12 said:
			
		

> When calculating the percentages like tax CI ect. Do you calculate it all from gross income? or do u take away one, then the next percentage to the remainder?



Calculation for deductions at source (i.e. off your pay) for income tax, EI, CPP, etc, are done the same way for CF members as for any other Canadian.  EI and CPP are a percentage of gross income up to the annual maximum.  Deductions for income tax are a little more complicated in that they are based on your projected annual taxable income, which is somewhat less than gross.  However, in response to the specific question, no they don't calculate one deduction and then base the next deduction on what's left over.


----------



## sramsay (10 Aug 2011)

The question that I have is this: I have been separated for 12 years but not divorced. I rent, plus I have 3 kids, will I have to pay for the rations?Thanks


----------



## Devonm123 (12 Aug 2011)

I am in a common law relationship and even have a signed affidavit saying so, will I be required to pay rations.


----------



## MJP (12 Aug 2011)

sramsay said:
			
		

> The question that I have is this: I have been separated for 12 years but not divorced. I rent, plus I have 3 kids, will I have to pay for the rations?Thanks



Are your children staying in your house while you are gone on course or will they be with your ex-spouse?



			
				Devonm123 said:
			
		

> I am in a common law relationship and even have a signed affidavit saying so, will I be required to pay rations.



As long as you have proof of common law and that you live together(which you should if you are common-law) with bills, lease agreement or a mortgage statement to back you up you won't have to pay for rations.  The CFRC chould take care of the issue when enrolling you.  If they don't ask.


----------



## Devonm123 (12 Aug 2011)

Thank you for answering this the recruiting centers can be vague sometimes.


----------



## sramsay (12 Aug 2011)

Yes my kids will be staying in my house.


----------



## MJP (12 Aug 2011)

sramsay said:
			
		

> Yes my kids will be staying in my house.



If they are dependants and you can legally leave them for that period of time then you should be good to go.


----------



## Goose15 (18 Feb 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Continued:
> 
> 
> > OCCUPATION TRANSFER
> ...



Out of interest, how does this affect pay raises? (referencing the attachment->) I am aware that when one OTs, CFRs, etcetera they do not drop in salary. So let's say you are a sergeant at the "basic" pay level. Then you OT, you relinquish your rank and are now a corporal. As you are not a sergeant anymore: would your pay remain frozen at the "sergeant basic" level until promoting to sergeant again and moving past that initial year as a sergeant?


----------



## 63 Delta (18 Feb 2014)

Negative. If you voluntarily OT and you are above the rank of Cpl, you will receive Cpl 4, the highest incentive. IE, if you were a Sgt 3, and OT, you will get Cpl 4.


----------



## Goose15 (18 Feb 2014)

HULK_011 said:
			
		

> Negative. If you voluntarily OT and you are above the rank of Cpl, you will receive Cpl 4, the highest incentive. IE, if you were a Sgt 3, and OT, you will get Cpl 4.



Oh okay thank you for the clarification, appreciate it.


----------



## DAA (18 Feb 2014)

When it comes to "Rate of Pay", occupation transfers generally fall into two categories, "Voluntary" or "Compulsory".

With a "Compulsory" occupation transfer, a member has "Vested Rights" and therefore, the rate of pay would not change and remain the same as though they were still at the previous rank and I believe they continue to accrue incentive levels as well.

With a "Voluntary" occupation transfer, there is no "Vested Rights" and therefore, the rate of pay would drop back to Cpl.  The incentive level would then be based on the CF members prior time served at that rank or something similar.  However, in instances where he occupation is entitled to "Spec" pay, that is not applicable, until the member achieves the occupational qualifications necessary for the rank of Cpl in the new occupation, which is normally QL5A.


----------



## Goose15 (18 Feb 2014)

DAA said:
			
		

> When it comes to "Rate of Pay", occupation transfers generally fall into two categories, "Voluntary" or "Compulsory".
> 
> With a "Compulsory" occupation transfer, a member has "Vested Rights" and therefore, the rate of pay would not change and remain the same as though they were still at the previous rank and I believe they continue to accrue incentive levels as well.
> 
> With a "Voluntary" occupation transfer, there is no "Vested Rights" and therefore, the rate of pay would drop back to Cpl.  The incentive level would then be based on the CF members prior time served at that rank or something similar.  However, in instances where he occupation is entitled to "Spec" pay, that is not applicable, until the member achieves the occupational qualifications necessary for the rank of Cpl in the new occupation, which is normally QL5A.



Interesting, thank you for the explanation.


----------



## PuckChaser (18 Feb 2014)

I hoping a RMS guru can tell me if I'm reading this CBI right. Issue is whether time as WSE counts towards IPC when promoted to substansive rank later on down the road. I read it as WSE/acting service still counts:



> 204.015(2) (Qualifying service) Subject to paragraph (4) and other conditions as may be prescribed in orders or instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff, qualifying service includes:
> 
> subject to paragraph (3) of this instruction, all previous service of an officer or non-commissioned member in the member's present rank, equivalent rank or any higher rank, including paid acting rank in:
> the Regular Force and all other permanent armed forces of Her Majesty,
> ...



Much appreciated!


----------



## DAA (18 Feb 2014)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I hoping a RMS guru can tell me if I'm reading this CBI right. Issue is whether time as WSE counts towards IPC when promoted to substansive rank later on down the road. I read it as WSE/acting service still counts:
> 
> Much appreciated!



Yes, it counts.  Hence, the term "paid rank".


----------



## PuckChaser (18 Feb 2014)

DAA said:
			
		

> Yes, it counts.  Hence, the term "paid rank".



Thanks for the clarification. I heard different in passing from one of my ROR staff, but now I know where to look in the CBI.


----------



## DAA (18 Feb 2014)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Thanks for the clarification. I heard different in passing from one of my ROR staff, but now I know where to look in the CBI.



Looking, finding and understanding are the easy parts.  Convincing people that such is the case, is the most difficult.

To explain it in more simple terms........

PuckChaser is a Sgt and is "tasked" on deployment and promoted to "WO -AWSE" for the duration.  Inorder to be promoted AWSE, you must possess ALL the occupational qualifications necessary for promotion to WO (S) but I think the "leadership" trg aspect "might" be waiveable.  Nevertheless, once you take up the rank of "WO/AWSE", that time is "banked".  So if it should happen to be 8 months, then that is a credit.  Two years later you do get promoted to WO,  Your "Seniority date" and also your pay entitlements would need to be adjusted to include your time served while a "WO/AWSE".


----------



## PuckChaser (18 Feb 2014)

Perfect. Exactly what happened to me, but one rank below. Thanks again.


----------



## DAA (18 Feb 2014)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Perfect. Exactly what happened to me, but one rank below. Thanks again.



Now the fun for you starts.  Trying to convince both your CoC and OR of this......

Need anything to change the direction of the tide, PM me.


----------



## Goose15 (19 Feb 2014)

DAA said:
			
		

> When it comes to "Rate of Pay", occupation transfers generally fall into two categories, "Voluntary" or "Compulsory".
> 
> With a "Compulsory" occupation transfer, a member has "Vested Rights" and therefore, the rate of pay would not change and remain the same as though they were still at the previous rank and I believe they continue to accrue incentive levels as well.



Could you give an example of a compulsory occupation transfer or what would cause one? The only thing I could think of would be failing occupation training but I do not know if that would actually even be covered by this.


----------



## dapaterson (19 Feb 2014)

Goose15 said:
			
		

> Could you give an example of a compulsory occupation transfer or what would cause one? The only thing I could think of would be failing occupation training but I do not know if that would actually even be covered by this.



In the mid-90s during FRP, the CAF got rid of the PERI branch.  Anyone in that branch who stayed in got a compulsory transfer into a new occupation.


----------



## Goose15 (19 Feb 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> In the mid-90s during FRP, the CAF got rid of the PERI branch.  Anyone in that branch who stayed in got a compulsory transfer into a new occupation.



Interesting, thanks for the info.


----------



## vroom (20 Feb 2014)

Good day all,

When promoted to Cpl from Pte 3, do you move to the Cpl Basic slot, or the Cpl 1 slot? 

Thanks.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (20 Feb 2014)

Basic.... Every time you get promoted you start back at 0 except for the appointment to MCpl you will go to the same IPC Level in MCpl as you had in Cpl.


----------



## vroom (20 Feb 2014)

Good to know, thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## Sharingan (25 Nov 2017)

Good morning, I have recently graduated from BMQ where I was getting paid approx $675/paycheck. I joined the military because I wanted to give my daughter and wife a better life financially, but I was placed on OJT until September 2018 instead of going into my trades course, but that is not the issue. The issue is is that I do not know which pay bracket I would belong to and how much I will be getting paid now that I am on OJT. Will I continue to get the $675 a paycheck or will there be an increase? I know it sounds selfish and ungrateful, but making sure my family eats and has a roof over their heads is my main goal in life. If someone has any answers it will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## tree hugger (25 Nov 2017)

Where will you be for your OJT?  Your pay is low because you are paying rations and quarters.  If you are doing OJT from home, your take home pay will be more.  You should verify if you should be paying for your quarters.  More info needed.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (25 Nov 2017)

Yes, this likely has more to do with your 'status' on OJT.  If you are posted with a restriction you are likely going to remain paying Rations (if you maintain a Primary residence at your enrolment location with dependents..you shouldn't be paying quarters.  Additionally, what province you are in can change your take home pay as well, with varying provincial tax amounts.

If you are Attach posted, then rations should be at public expense.

Your actual PAY before deductions...will go up each year on the month of your enrolment, called IPC (Incentive Pay Categories).    http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-ncm-class-c-rates.page


----------



## Pusser (27 Nov 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> If you are Attach posted, then rations should be at public expense.



Not correct.  If you are Attach Posted, you still have to pay for rations (Attach Posting is the biggest shaft we have - all of the hassles of a posting, but none of the benefits).  You only get free rations if you are on Temporary Duty.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (27 Nov 2017)

Really...I thought when the changes were introduced a few years back, both AP and TD resulted in rations at public expense.  

Thanks for setting me straight on it.   :Tin-Foil-Hat:


----------



## kev994 (27 Nov 2017)

They did, did it change back?


----------



## Eye In The Sky (27 Nov 2017)

kev994 said:
			
		

> They did, did it change back?



I'd thought they did too, honestly.  I had a friend who did a CT/OT...was posted out of province initially, then posted back to the local BTL...and then APd for trg out of province.  He was free R & Q and kept PLD (D HG & E remained in PLDA).

 :Tin-Foil-Hat:


----------



## Pusser (28 Nov 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I'd thought they did too, honestly.  I had a friend who did a CT/OT...was posted out of province initially, then posted back to the local BTL...and then APd for trg out of province.  He was free R & Q and kept PLD (D HG & E remained in PLDA).
> 
> :Tin-Foil-Hat:



 :facepalm: to be fair, I don't know if I know anymore.  We've flopped around so much on this, I've lost track.  We used to screw everybody.  Now we select a few chosen individuals and screw them really badly...


----------



## Lumber (28 Nov 2017)

Pusser said:
			
		

> :facepalm: to be fair, I don't know if I know anymore.  We've flopped around so much on this, I've lost track.  We used to screw everybody.  Now we select a few chosen individuals and screw them really badly...



Well, see this is why I think we need to have two separate references, one for "Duty Travel" and one for "Temporary Duty". Tee term "duty travel" isn't even defined. Duty travel and the CFTDIs should cover only the portion of travel between two duty locations, that's it. IAW chapter 7, for example, to earn benefits under this seciton, you need to be 
(a) on TD or on an attached posting;
(b) *travelling between their place of duty and another duty location*, both of which are in Canada or the Continental United States of America (CANUS); and
(c) authorized to occupy accommodations overnight.

It's that yellow bit that I don't understand. When we go on TD, we get incidentals for the entire time we are there, but we aren't "travelling" between two places of duty. So why do we get incidentals the whole time?

So, based on that, the entitlements at para 7.02 (Accommodations) and 7.18 (Meals) wouldn't apply because the member is not longer travelling between two places of duty.

Now, whenever I've seen someone get attached-posted, I've always seen R&Q covered, whether it was to a training school in another part of the country, our a short term CFTPO to the other coast. However, I suppose, that in accordance with the regulations, you could get attach-posted from Halifax to Esquimalt and you would be on your own to deal with R&Q.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (28 Nov 2017)

Pusser said:
			
		

> :facepalm: to be fair, I don't know if I know anymore.  We've flopped around so much on this, I've lost track.  We used to screw everybody.  Now we select a few chosen individuals and screw them really badly...



Exactly!!  I guess if 'no one knows' then no one can be right...OR wrong.   ;D


----------



## Lumber (29 Nov 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Exactly!!  I guess if 'no one knows' then no one can be right...OR wrong.   ;D



Until someone in Ottawa who has nothing better decides to look into old cases from 3 years ago and makes an authoritative decision that what the subject matter expert told you 3 years ago was wrong and that even though it's not your fault and you did everything right you still owe the government several thousand dollars, and we're garnishing your salary immediately taking as much as we can off each pay check.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Nov 2017)

Oh, yes, the_ BOHICA Clause.

_Strong, Secure, Engaged   ;D


----------



## Chief_MrFreeze (23 Mar 2019)

Hi everyone,

I am unable to find information on what the letter grades mean. Please see attached for a screenshot.

If anyone could provide any advise, it would be greatly appreciated.


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## expwor (23 Mar 2019)

Although not in the Canadian Forces I am retired from the Federal Public Service and rates of pay were similarly structured.
The PI I'd venture a guess stands for Pay Increment
The different PI levels just because like the Public Service you don't go right to top pay (well not supposed to) at your pay (or rank) level. Probably each PI takes one year
Now with Public Service most people got to top pay when a contract signed only because contract negotiations take so long that all pay levels reached and its time to start new contract negotiations...if that makes sense
Anyhow a guess on my part
I stand to be corrected

Tom


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## sidemount (23 Mar 2019)

Quick look at the CBI and it reads to me that level A is just a regular Officer, B is an Officer that was a former NCM, and C is for a Commission for the Ranks Officer.

Someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


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## Monsoon (23 Mar 2019)

Assuming you're asking about the "A", "B" and "C" lines, these refer to specific cases in the CBIs. In the case of 2Lt, pay level "A" is the ordinary case that applies to direct officer entrants (DEO, RESO and OCTP entry plans for the Primary Reserve). Levels "B" and "C" refer to cases relating to folks with previous NCM service who are commissioned from the ranks.

The reading gets a little fussy, but all the gory details are available online for anyone who wants to wade into them: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/compensation-benefits-instructions/chapter-204-pay-policy-officers-ncms.html#sec-204-52


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