# Pics:Australian issued ELCANs in the Unit's Workshop: Your opinion on the mount



## 1feral1 (5 May 2005)

Well, we are getting things up and running for the Bisley Skill at Arms Meeting in the UK, and I have been frantically modifiying some of our ELCANs, known here as the Watt's Wildcat EOS (Enhanced Optical Sight).

These are all Gen1 mounts (sights are made in 1997), and we are told that the CF is up to a Gen 4 mount. We are making do with what we have, and after a few basic mods of drilling a hole and a few other tricks, we have a basic stable system, able to hopfully kick some serious arse in the UK at CENTSAM in June.

Also on the Aussie contracted mounts you'll notice that the retention wingnuts are located on the opposite side, as the standard C7 type interfere with cocking the F88 Austeyr, as the CH is on the left hand side of the rifle.

Here is a few pics from my workbench taken today.

The 'M' on the underside indicates the 'mod' has been done. I have about 20 to do, all by Monday.

Is the CF sending a CST to Bisley this year?


Cheers,

Wes

PS- Note the Army.ca sticker on the upper left hand corner of the tool box  8)


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## 1feral1 (5 May 2005)

One last pic  ;D

Cheers,

Wes


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## MG34 (5 May 2005)

Too bad crap is crap no matter what you call it or what rifle you mount it on.


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## NavyShooter (6 May 2005)

Good to hear that the Aus is sending a team this year, good for you!!! 

Not sure if there will be a CF Team, I do not believe that there will be a Navy member present this year, (postings, etc) 

Not sure what tricks y'all are using on your scopes, but it sounds as though you've been pretty busy.

You guys going to be shooting open gate or closed gate with the Elcans?  

NS


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## KevinB (7 May 2005)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Too bad crap is crap no matter what you call it or what rifle you mount it on.



Roger that.




Wes toss them and get ACOG's


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## Navalsnpr (14 May 2005)

The CF is not sending a team this year  

Additionally, the guy who was to go and represent the Navy is posted and the alternate (me) is unable to go due to other commitments.

Next year sounds promising though.


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## 1feral1 (14 May 2005)

Thanks Mate. Have you heard if anyone is coming to AASAM. Its been since 2002 since a CF team has come out.

Cheers,

WEs


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## pappy (23 Jul 2005)

Ditto on the ACOGs, you won't find a better combat low-power scope then the ACOG in my opinion.  I've owned 3 (now down to 2) and used them for over almost 15 years,  my first was the standard TA01, used it till the tritium finialy gave out last year.  Picked up a new TA31F to replace it and ended up selling off the old one for more then I paid new, and the new owner knew he was gonna have to pony up 250 USD to replace the tritium lamps.  Everyone was happy all the way around.


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## KevinB (23 Jul 2005)

You know I used to think the ACOG was the be all and end all.  Then they made me drive around downtown Kabul...

I think you need a mix - EOTECH and ACOG -- or if you've got big pockets the S&B 1.1-4x Short Dot - The NF 1-4 is nice but the reticle is not bright enough.


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## Britney Spears (23 Jul 2005)

> or if you've got big pockets the S&B 1.1-4x Short Dot



How much MORE could those cost than the Elcans? Even if they cost 2x as much, the cost of repairing and refitting C79s every other day would still make it more economical.  

If they issued those en mass our infantry would be the envy of the whole world, morale would go through the roof, not that anyone really cares about my morale....

What next? Webbing that works?


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## KevinB (23 Jul 2005)

IIRC US Retail is $2700 for the S&B...

 I'm running one on a course next week - I'll tell you what I think


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## paracowboy (23 Jul 2005)

MG34 said:
			
		

> Too bad crap is crap no matter what you call it or what rifle you mount it on.


preach it, brother!


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## pappy (23 Jul 2005)

well hard to compare an ACOG with a EOTech, different tools  / apples and pears... kinda thing in my opionin. But yeah I got an EOTech too... and a laser, and...

when your pockets are full thats where the butt-pack comes into play....  ;D

Elcan and ACOG are sort of the same family of low powered optics, EOTech fit into the dot sight group.  and lets not forget to have some BUIS as stuff breaks, batteries fail...
The reason I like the ACOG is no batteries.... no Electronics....  I like the EOTechs... but just some nessitation as to thier duribility in the long run.

But Optics and handguns are like women, oh crap I'm gonna step into it this time, Everyone has different ideas of what feels good in thier hands and looks good to thier eye.


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## Britney Spears (27 Jul 2005)

Since this is turning into a more general Rifle scope thread, I thought I'd throw this out here and invite knowledgable commentary.









> New from ELCAN
> 
> - Switches instantly from close combat (1x) to telescopic (4x)
> - Eye relief (cheekweld) and bore sighting remain constant
> ...



Question about this "switch instantly" business: I always assumed that variable powered rifle sights worked the same way as camera zoom lens, that is the objective lens move back and forth. This is still the case yes?

Obviously I am a neophyte when it comes to these things. As long as they issue me a C79 that works they're batting above avg....


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## beltfeedPaul (27 Jul 2005)

I never had any problems with my folding rear disc sight of the aperture type, never needed batteries, didnt lose its zero after being bashed around the back of a carrier for 6 weeks, didnt fog up, or crack, or fall off.


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## KevinB (27 Jul 2005)

Brit - that is the ELCAN submission to ECOS - Enhanced Combat Optical Sight.  I understand the shutter from 1/4 is just flippign th mag lens into the equation so it is either 1 or 4 - no inbetween - alledgedly this is more rugged.


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## Britney Spears (27 Jul 2005)

Hmm, that's some funky engineering then. Presumably the different lenses would be on an internal  pivot or something that rotated into place?. I assume that's what the big lever in between the scope and the mount is for?

If this is the case, then that's a pretty  neat idea, because I can't see how you could do the same thing with an internally adjusted sight. So maybe the external range adjustment isn't obsolete after all?


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## KevinB (27 Jul 2005)

Well the problem I hear is their is some distortion and zero change when the power is changed.

 Funny the guys that drove this project have bought S&B Short Dot's and Trijicon TA31 and Trijicons Accupoints in droves...

I hear Trijicon has a variable (first focal plane) 1-4 TA31 style coming out...


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## Britney Spears (27 Jul 2005)

I'd love to see some cutaway schematics of all these items, to understand how they work....


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## Navalsnpr (30 Jul 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Thanks Mate. Have you heard if anyone is coming to AASAM. Its been since 2002 since a CF team has come out.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> WEs



Wes,

Don't anticipate that there will be a team to AASAM or CENTSAM until 2007


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## 1feral1 (30 Jul 2005)

2007! Thats too bad, its looks like this year ther could be up to 16 international teams coming here. We are hearing that again, there is NO CFSAC either in August.

Our lads returned from CENTSAM two wks ago with some awards, but did not shoot as well as we thought they would. With the SAW cell 'dying' and a new cell being created in Singleton, pointing in a new direction for marksmanship trg, I am hopeful that next year the our CST can learn from its shortfalls, and improve for 2006.

Cold beers,

Wes


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## Navalsnpr (30 Jul 2005)

Wes,

Rumour has it that CFSAC may run next year.... nothing official has been released about it yet..

We just completed the DCRA NSCC (National Service Conditions Championships) which was always run concurrently with CFSAC. We had around 80 competitors in total.


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## KevinB (30 Jul 2005)

Navalsnipr - CFSAC was supposed to run this year - but the PRT and OP Archer /TF1-6  preps took it off the Army's to do list.

 Unfortunately while 06 is still pencilled in - the op tempo is picking back up - and I cant see if we have two Battlegroups deployed and two training to go that the Army will green light it - no one seems to understand the value added from having troops that know how to shoot.  :


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## Navalsnpr (30 Jul 2005)

I hear ya! 

I was suprised that Comox sent a team this year to the NSCC.... Good to see that despite CFSAC not being run that new units are showing up to the NSCC.


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