# Forces swamped with deployment requests as Afghan mission winds down



## 57Chevy (17 Jun 2010)

(Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)


KANDAHAR AIRFIELD, AFGHANISTAN — The Canadian Forces have been swamped with volunteers eager to be among the last troops headed to Kandahar before Parliament closes out the combat mission next year, according to the outgoing commander of the army, Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie.


"Everyone knows that for the last two missions, you're part of the A team because if you don't do well in the training there are a lot of folks who are willing to step in and fill their shoes," Leslie said in a farewell interview before handing over command of the army to Lt.-Gen. Peter Devlin in Ottawa on Monday.


On a recent trip to CFB Valcartier, outside Quebec City, Leslie said that he and the army sergeant major, Chief Warrant Officer Wayne Ford were stunned by how even "the trainers and instructors in the back of the room all put up their hands" to show how badly they wanted to join a group of soldiers from the Van Doo battle group that they had been helping to prepare for a deployment to Kandahar later this year.


"Soldiers like to do that which soldiers are trained to do," was Leslie's explanation of the willingness of so many to serve one last time in a theatre where 147 Canadian soldiers have died since 2002.


The army was at 99 per cent of its established manning levels, he said, adding that the infantry — the most dangerous trade in the army — was oversubscribed.


"I suspect the direct cause of the increased numbers, the lower attrition rates, the higher retention rates, and the significant capital investments in army equipment, is because Canadians are paying a great deal of attention to their army and like what they see," Leslie said.


"They may not necessarily agree with where we are doing it, but that is up to them to decide. They are supporting their soldiers not only during tragedies, but what we are doing and how we do it. The government, as well, has been very generous in building up its army."


Earlier this year, Leslie, who has had command of the army for four years, was briefly, but widely touted as the potential commander of a peacekeeping mission in Congo. That was before Ottawa turned down a formal invitation from the UN for Canada to lead that operation.


"Oh well," Leslie said when the Congo was mentioned.


The general was "excited" about his new appointment as the Force's first chief of transformation, which will see him recommend ways for the army, air force and navy to be ready for future military challenges.


"All western forces are looking at another stage of evolution in the expectation that the world is going to continue to be a dangerous and complicated place, arguably even more so," the general said. "We do not necessarily try to re-create conditions of the last war, but that will inform decisions as to how we think about how to reposition ourselves for the future.


"We've got great examples of lessons from the previous four or five years, he said, citing the reserves for having "stepped up to the plate" to help the regular forces in Afghanistan.


As an artillery officer trained as a forward air controller directing warplanes on to their targets, and having flown many times with combat aviators in Afghanistan, Leslie said he was somewhat familiar with the air force, but that he had much to learn about naval operations. Towards this end, he was going to sea for a week on a frigate and a submarine in August.


"It is not something to shoot from the hip on," he said of the need to continue modernizing the Canadian military. "There is no silver bullet. It is very much a team approach."


Whatever the future held for the Forces, Leslie said they would continue to improve their ability to operate in many diverse environments such as Haiti, where 2,000 soldiers were deployed on a humanitarian mission earlier this year on "zero notice."


Told that a U.S. army colonel in Afghanistan had recently declared that Canada already had the best small army in the world, Leslie laughed.


"I think that we have the best medium-sized army in the world," was his boastful reply.



Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Forces+swamped+with+deployment+requests+Afghan+mission+winds+down/3166798/story.html#ixzz0r8flWOL4


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## vonGarvin (17 Jun 2010)

> The army was at 99 per cent of its established manning levels, he said, adding that the infantry — the most dangerous trade in the army — was oversubscribed.





 :stars:


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## GDawg (17 Jun 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> :stars:



I assume PATs count towards the 99% manning level...


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## vonGarvin (17 Jun 2010)

Fact: the infantry school is manned at roughly 85% of authorised strength.  It may be lower, but it's certainly no where near 90%, let alone 99%.


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## Infanteer (17 Jun 2010)

Fact:  Authorized strength is nowhere near required strength, as mix-and-match and pre-tour shuffles show.  My required strength has a mortar platoon....


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## vonGarvin (17 Jun 2010)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Fact:  Authorized strength is nowhere near required strength, as mix-and-match and pre-tour shuffles show.  *My required strength has a mortar platoon*....


Just for that, + max MilNet Points for you, sir!


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## Tank Troll (17 Jun 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Fact: the infantry school is manned at roughly 85% of authorised strength.  It may be lower, but it's certainly no where near 90%, let alone 99%.



Must be adding in all the guys in the pat platoons across the country. The Armour school got 300 some guys that were OT-ed to 011s late last year from the Infantry. We were told you guys were overborne, I really thought that Infantry were like Money in that there was no such thing as to much  ???


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## vonGarvin (17 Jun 2010)

If they count recruits or officer candidates in the stream as "Infantrymen" or as "Infantry Officers", then that's shitty accounting.  It's like saying "I get paid $2000 next week, so therefore I have $2000".


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## Arsenal (17 Jun 2010)

I've been back for little over a month and I'm already wanting to go back. It's kind of frustrating knowing I wont get another chance, at least not with a rifle company.


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## Zartan (19 Jun 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> If they count recruits or officer candidates in the stream as "Infantrymen" or as "Infantry Officers", then that's shitty accounting.  It's like saying "I get paid $2000 next week, so therefore I have $2000".



In our poor context, it's like a guy kicking off on workup after the Allowances briefing saying to himself, "I'm going to make $45000! Time to buy some weed!"


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## Snaketnk (19 Jun 2010)

Kernewek said:
			
		

> In our poor context, it's like a guy kicking off on workup after the Allowances briefing saying to himself, "I'm going to make $45000! Time to buy some weed!"



True story. Happens all the time unfortunately.

I'm definitely trying to get on the next roto as well. I'd like to do my job as much as possible before the mission ends.


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## stealthylizard (20 Jun 2010)

Same here with TF 1-11.


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## Haggis (20 Jun 2010)

The Infantry Soldier occupation in the Regular Force is about 1,000 over it's PML  (Preferred Manning Level).  The PML counts all Infantry soldiers as one group.  The disparity happens at the different rank levels. Even at 1,000 over PML, we still need MCpl to MWO but have many more than enough Ptes.


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## tomahawk6 (20 Jun 2010)

Quite a turnaround compared to the start of the mission where you almost had to boot people out of the schoolhouse back to the combat units. The value of combat experience is unequaled IF you want to compete for advancement.


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## vonGarvin (20 Jun 2010)

Haggis said:
			
		

> The Infantry Soldier occupation in the Regular Force is about 1,000 over it's PML  (Preferred Manning Level).  The PML counts all Infantry soldiers as one group.  The disparity happens at the different rank levels. Even at 1,000 over PML, we still need MCpl to MWO but have many more than enough Ptes.


1000 over; however, many of those infantrymen and infantry officers aren't even in the army, let alone the field force.  JTF-2 and CSOR members who are infantrymen or infantry officer count towards that 1000 over PML, as but one example.  When "they" cut infantry positions, they cut from the field force, which, IMHO, is retarded.  But that's just me.


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## Tank Troll (20 Jun 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> 1000 over; however, many of those infantrymen and infantry officers aren't even in the army, let alone the field force.  JTF-2 and CSOR members who are infantrymen or infantry officer count towards that 1000 over PML, as but one example.  When "they" cut infantry positions, they cut from the field force, which, IMHO, is retarded.  But that's just me.



Once you go to JTF2 it should be considered a OT and be given a new Mosid/MOC.


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## vonGarvin (20 Jun 2010)

Even better, any position which isn't Infantryman or Infantry Officer specific ought not to be counted.   (Same with any trade)


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## blacktriangle (20 Jun 2010)

I thought assaulters were already a managed specialty, with their own career manager? The way I see it, it is just a matter of better accounting.


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## Journeyman (21 Jun 2010)

Tank Troll said:
			
		

> Once you go to JTF2 it should be considered a OT and be given a new Mosid/MOC.


Few troops make a complete career within CANSOFCOM. 

Should they have to go to the BPSO to find another trade once their time in JTF2/CSOR/CFJIRU is done? And if Infantry remains full, do you take these Infantry soldiers, with their additional qualifications and experience, and make them RMS Clerks?


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## blacktriangle (21 Jun 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Few troops make a complete career within CANSOFCOM.
> 
> Should they have to go to the BPSO to find another trade once their time in JTF2/CSOR/CFJIRU is done? And if Infantry remains full, do you take these Infantry soldiers, with their additional qualifications and experience, and make them RMS Clerks?



100 % agree, it would just be an added layer of bureaucracy. On a slight tangent though, I believe the CJIRU guys now form their own CBRN MOSID. While it may make sense for CBRN stuff, I'm not so sure about the rest of CANSOFCOM.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Jun 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Few troops make a complete career within CANSOFCOM.
> 
> Should they have to go to the BPSO to find another trade once their time in JTF2/CSOR/CFJIRU is done? And if Infantry remains full, do you take these Infantry soldiers, with their additional qualifications and experience, and make them RMS Clerks?



Casey Ryback became a cook ;D


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## Journeyman (21 Jun 2010)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Casey Ryback became a cook ;D


I _knew_ it! In my initial draft I wrote "...and make them cooks?" I knew that response would show up  ;D


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## HItorMiss (21 Jun 2010)

Admit it JM you totally set it up regardless LMAO ;D


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## Tank Troll (21 Jun 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Few troops make a complete career within CANSOFCOM.
> 
> Should they have to go to the BPSO to find another trade once their time in JTF2/CSOR/CFJIRU is done? And if Infantry remains full, do you take these Infantry soldiers, with their additional qualifications and experience, and make them RMS Clerks?



Not all of them are Infantry......................some are other trades, and some have a hard time passing Career Courses IE: Armoured Soldiers that stay in the JTF2 for instance can't get past the rank of MCpl because they need their DP3 ARCC, and to get Sgt they need DP3 ARPC and if the have been working out side the Corps since they were Cpls then they aren't up to speed on the Armour stuff. A couple of my friends ran in to this problem. I hope there is some way that this gets sorted out, but I don't know of one?


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## Robbie4296 (11 Jul 2010)

57Chevy said:
			
		

> (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)
> 
> 
> Earlier this year, Leslie, who has had command of the army for four years, was briefly, but widely touted as the potential commander of a peacekeeping mission in Congo. That was before Ottawa turned down a formal invitation from the UN for Canada to lead that operation.
> ...



Since Ottawa turned down the Invitation to "lead" the Operation, does that mean that CF will not enter under any other capacity at this time?
Just havn't seen much on the topic lately and just curious on some updates.


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## dapaterson (11 Jul 2010)

You colud always use google and discover things like this:

http://www.comfec.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/crocodile/index-eng.asp


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## Robbie4296 (11 Jul 2010)

Thanks for the link, some good info there
Cheers


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## GK .Dundas (11 Jul 2010)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> If they count recruits or officer candidates in the stream as "Infantrymen" or as "Infantry Officers", then that's shitty accounting.  It's like saying "I get paid $2000 next week, so therefore I have $2000".


 I suspect that the Canadian military has been using the Betty Crocker School of Accounting method since it's inception  when it comes to numbers of personnel .It would explain a great many things in our history


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