# C-17 in Antartica



## tomahawk6

Didnt know they could land on the ice. 






A C-17 Globemaster III taxis to its parking spot Nov. 27 on the ice runway at McMurdo Station, Antarctica, during Operation Deep Freeze.


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## Nfld Sapper

Found a couple of vids on youtube.

C-17 Taking off in Antarctica
C-17 Ice Runway Landing

EDITED 

Also found a good one, didn't know they could "reverse" ;D
WOW (added a new link of a different vid but still showing it reversing)


EDITED AGAIN

So here is a vid of our first C-17 landing in Trenton
C-17 Coming home to Trenton


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## Globesmasher

Yup.

They've been doing "Op Iceshelf" every year now for quite a while.
They stage out of New Zealand and fly into Antarctica routinely.

They can land on ice - the same as landing on an ice-covered concrete runway really.
The ice must meet a certain thickness before they can ladn on it.

Yes, we can reverse the engines - both in-flight and on the ground.
On an ICAO standard day we can reverse a 585,000 lb (full) aircraft up a 2% slope (at sea level).

In flight we can reverse the engines for a "tactical" descent.
Typically we'll achieve about 320 Knots, a 30 degree deck angle pitched down and a rate of decsent around 16,000-20,000 feet per minute.
No, there are not too many zeroes in that.

It's a very capable aircraft.


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## Roy Harding

Globesmasher said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> In flight we can reverse the engines for a "tactical" descent.
> Typically we'll achieve about 320 Knots, a 30 degree deck angle pitched down and a rate of decsent around _*16,000-20,000 feet per minute.
> No, there are not too many zeroes in that.
> *_
> It's a very capable aircraft.



Holy Crap!!  Hope the cabin crew have passed out the barf bags BEFORE you pull that stunt!


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## Zoomie

Just hope that the pressurization system keeps up - cuz there is no way your ears could.


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## Bane

Wow. I remember doing autos, 2,000 fpm was pretty typical. That's one fast decent for one big bird.


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## Roy Harding

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Just hope that the pressurization system keeps up - cuz there is no way your ears could.



See there - that's why YOU'RE the Zoomie, and I'm the one in the back with the barf bag - I hadn't even thought of that.


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## cameron

S@#$! thanks Nfld Sapper, you just made my morning with some good aero porn ;D


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## Strike

Globesmasher said:
			
		

> In flight we can reverse the engines for a "tactical" descent.
> Typically we'll achieve about 320 Knots, a 30 degree deck angle pitched down and a rate of decsent around 16,000-20,000 feet per minute.
> No, there are not too many zeroes in that.
> 
> It's a very capable aircraft.



Woohoo!  Would LOVE to be in the back for that!  Better than a roller coaster!

Certainly wouldn't want to be in the front.  Seeing the dials scroll down that quick would freak me out!


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## geo

Strike said:
			
		

> Woohoo!  Would LOVE to be in the back for that!  Better than a roller coaster!
> 
> Certainly wouldn't want to be in the front.  Seeing the dials scroll down that quick would freak me out!



Admit it, you'd love to be in the cockpit...

Betcha you've never seen a big accident up close before


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## belka

Globesmasher said:
			
		

> Typically we'll achieve about 320 Knots, a 30 degree deck angle pitched down and a rate of decsent around 16,000-20,000 feet per minute.



Something tells me that I don't want to be sitting sideways in the cargo hold during a decent like that.  :-X

Although, the C-17 would make for a nice zero-G aircraft.  ;D


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## Globesmasher

Strike said:
			
		

> Certainly wouldn't want to be in the front.
> Seeing the dials scroll down that quick would freak me out!



Here you go Strike - hope this freaks you out.
This was going into Bagram back in late 2001.
It's an old picture.

332 knots in the descent (or 0.66 Mach if you like).
19 degree deck angle down (with a 23 degree flight path vector) - very little blue left in the PFD.
Passing through 15,420' MSL heading for 6,000'.
With a descent rate of 15,960 feet per minute.

35 seconds to start levelling out and stowing the reversers before we all die.


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## Kirkhill

Globesmasher said:
			
		

> Here you go Strike - hope this freaks you out.
> This was going into Bagram back in late 2001.
> It's an old picture.
> 
> 332 knots in the descent (or 0.66 Mach if you like).
> 19 degree deck angle down (with a 23 degree flight path vector) - very little blue left in the PFD.
> Passing through 15,420' MSL heading for 6,000'.
> With a descent rate of 15,960 feet per minute.
> 
> 35 seconds to start levelling out and stowing the reversers before we all die.



And somebody's got their flaming camera clicking????


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## GAP

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> And somebody's got their flaming camera clicking????



Well, what else was he gonna do? it's too confined to kiss various and sundry part goodbye


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## maniac779

Globesmasher,

I love your posts.

I normally lurk unless I have something meaningful to say...

But that picture is bananas... so cool.


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## Bane

+ Many. Awesome, thanks.


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## loadie

Globesmasher,

I've flown with you a couple of times on the Herc.  Us "Loadies" in the back trust you! 
People don't realize just how technical these approaches are, not just a "controled crash". 
Your post on this site are great.  Keep it up. 
Maybe I'll choose the CC-177 for my next tour!  Right now, I'm flying SAR and loving it!

Cheers


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## observor 69

Chuck 130 said:
			
		

> Globesmasher,
> 
> I've flown with you a couple of times on the Herc.  Us "Loadies" in the back trust you!
> People don't realize just how technical these approaches are, not just a "controled crash".
> Your post on this site are great.  Keep it up.
> Maybe I'll choose the CC-177 for my next tour!  Right now, I'm flying SAR and loving it!
> 
> Cheers



Ya  if I was in a 16000 fpm descent I would want/hope/pray that things in the back were securely lashed down.  ;D
Thank you Mr.loadie! 
In a 30 degree attack on the ground with a sliding brick.


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## Haletown

I showed that picture to a visiting friend who is 777 right seater . . .   he was "gob smacked".  Said his  passengers get freaked  at 5 degrees nose down

he had a question  - will the display always show a patch of blue at the top regardless of the increased nose down angle, sort of a "yes it is still working"  verification ??


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## Globesmasher

Haletown said:
			
		

> will the display always show a patch of blue at the top regardless of the increased nose down angle, sort of a "yes it is still working"  verification ??



Nope .............  ;D
What you see is what you get ......


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## Haletown

Roger that,

thnx ++


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## belka

Haletown said:
			
		

> I showed that picture to a visiting friend who is 777 right seater . . .   he was "gob smacked".  Said his  passengers get freaked  at 5 degrees nose down



Kinda hard to drink that wine at 5 degrees nose down.  ;D

Having flown on the C-17, you can almost expect unexpected manouvers in flight for no apparent reasons. Just one of the joys of flying transport.


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## Globesmasher

NINJA said:
			
		

> Having flown on the C-17, you can almost expect unexpected manouvers in flight for no apparent reasons.



There's always a reason .........


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## Roy Harding

NINJA said:
			
		

> Kinda hard to drink that wine at 5 degrees nose down.  ;D
> 
> Having flown on the C-17, you can almost expect unexpected manouvers in flight for no apparent reasons. Just one of the joys of flying transport.



I know what you mean - flying into/out of KAF (or other places) on US C-17s was always exciting - there were times I thought that I MIGHT need the proverbial bag - but I was too proud to let "it" happen.

Having said that - I DON'T think I was ever on a plane which was loosing altitude at the rate described by Globe Smasher earlier in this thread - even pride wouldn't have saved me then.


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## Nfld Sapper

In related news,

Airbus 319 lands in Antarctica.

Article Link

Passenger jet makes historic landing in Antarctica: officials 
Posted on December 12, 2007 (EST) 

A passenger jet has made a historic landing on a new blue ice runway in Australia's Antarctic territory and regular flights are expected to start within a week, officials said Wednesday.
  
SYDNEY (AFP) - But trips on the Airbus A319 to the Wilkins Runway will be for scientists and research staff only, with no plans to open the airlink to tourists, project manager Charlton Clark told AFP. 

The runway is four kilometres (2.5 miles) long, 700 metres thick and moves about 12 metres southwest a year because of glacial drift. 

In the first trial landing on Monday, the plane pulled up within 1,000 metres despite the lack of friction to grab the wheels on the ice. 

Clark said work had begun on the 10 million dollar (8.7 million US) runway 70 kilometres from Australia's Casey research station in 2005, with crews living in shipping containers. 

"Just living in that environment, with conditions of minus 35 degrees and up to a hundred knots of wind, let alone doing the work, was an amazing undertaking," he said. 

Using laser levelling technology, they graded and shaved the ice flat and must keep grooming it to keep it snow free. 

The runway was named for the adventurer and aviator Sir Hubert Wilkins, who made the first flight in Antarctica 79 years ago. 

Scientists and specialists working at Australia's Antarctic field stations, who previously had to spend weeks voyaging to and from the ice by sea, are expected to start flying within a week, he said. 

Other nations with Antarctic research stations have been flying to the icy continent for years from countries such as New Zealand and South Africa, but using military aircraft. 

The Australian Antarctic Division says its introduction of a modern jet aircraft, which can complete a return journey without refuelling, marks the start of a new era.


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## geo

> "Just living in that environment, with conditions of minus 35 degrees and up to a hundred knots of wind, let alone doing the work, was an amazing undertaking," he said.
> 
> Using laser levelling technology, they graded and shaved the ice flat and must keep grooming it to keep it snow free.
> 
> The runway was named for the adventurer and aviator Sir Hubert Wilkins, who made the first flight in Antarctica 79 years ago.



Dunno about you but, if the wind is blowing at 100 knots, there shouldn't be that much of a need to keep the runway snow free 
And temperature at -35C.... peshaw... that's a nice day for a walk


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## Haletown

an obvious result of global warming.

Someone should do something.

Mr Gore, Steffi, where are you when needed ???


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## Bandit1

Had fun in my ride in the Globemaster - unfortunately it was a media/bigwig flight so there weren't any aggressive maneuvers done whatsoever...oh well...I'm sure that'll come with the Herc Tac ride next year.... ;D

Bandit


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## belka

Globesmasher said:
			
		

> There's always a reason .........



I can see over hostile territory, but flying out of a Canadian airport?  ;D


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## aesop081

NINJA said:
			
		

> I can see over hostile territory, but flying out of a Canadian airport?  ;D



are you a flight deck crewmember ?


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## GAP

C-17 lands successfully in Alert
Posted By JEROME LESSARD, QMI AGENCY
Posted 16 mins ago
Article Link 

Maj. Jean Maisonneuve is not a movie star, but the 429 squadron pilot was the headliner of a world premiere earlier this month.

From April 15-17, the 20-year pilot performed a total of four successful C-17 Globemaster landings and takeoffs at Canadian Forces Station (CFS) Alert in Nunavut.

It marked the first time a C-17 had landed in Alert -- the most northerly, permanently inhabited location in the world. It is the first time a Globemaster landed on a SPRO, or semi-prepared runway, and the first time any C-17 -- with more than two million hours flown by various air forces -- has ever landed on a snow and ice-covered runway.

"This first C-17 mission in Alert was tremendously successful," said Maisonneuve, a member of CFB Trenton's Transport and Rescue Standardization and Evaluation Team. "The aircraft performed better than expected. It stopped with 1,500 to 2,000 feet of runway remaining on all four landings we performed, beating calculated landing distances by about 500 feet."

Maisonneuve said he and an eight-member air crew had to determine a braking coefficient to reduce risks and uncertainties before landing on the 5,500-foot-long nordic runway.

"For example, a Globemaster may be able to use a 6,000-foot runway when it's bare and dry, and even when it's bare and wet, but up in Alert, with a packed snow and ice covered runway, suddenly that same 6,000 runway may be way too short," said Maisonneuve.

The former C-130 Hercules pilot (1991-96) said he was not nervous, but excited and confident to perform the historical six-hour direct flight. Despite its impressive size and cargo capacity, Maisonneuve said the C-17 is a "very" capable and maneuverable aircraft.

"It was our first time landing a C-17 in Alert, but it wasn't my first experience landing an aircraft on that runway," said Maisonneuve, who has logged up to 3,000 hours on the C-17 since 2001.

"The US ambassador to Canada (David Jacobson), the Deputy Minister of Defence (Robert Fonberg) and the Commander of 1 Canadian Air Division (Maj. Gen. Yvan Blondin) were on board for this mission," said Maisonneuve.

The 8 Wing's Globemaster No. 701 conducted its first flight to the northern air force station without any cargo on board. Maisonneuve said CRFI tests were run based upon an empty aircraft, "which reduces the landing length significantly," said the pilot.

Landing the aircraft on a gravel and snow-packed runway was not the only challenge facing the 8 Wing air crew. Maisonneuve said ground operations were "a bit tricky, but the crew was able to maneuver the aircraft without backing."
More on link


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## chrisf

Imagine, boxtop... done in 15 minutes...


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## WingsofFury

A little longer than 15 minutes, but when you're unloading 56K lbs in cargo and 40K of fuel it usually takes a bit longer... :nod:

BOXTOP 1 hitting the brakes this summer at CFS Alert


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## Haletown

Lovely picture . . .   what a way to do Box Top.


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## WingsofFury

Thanks Haletown - it was really awesome to see.


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## Haletown

That picture is a framer.

Quick eyeball on the strip and it looks in good condition.

In a previous life I surveyed runways and did aggregate surveys all over the Arctic - Alert was on of the few our team didn't get to.  Would have been a good one, but.


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## Zoomie

It's one of the best maintained gravel strips that I have operated out of...  Lots of rock up there to grind up and fill in the ruts.


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## WingsofFury

Haletown - thanks for the kind words.  It's actually the centrepiece of a little thing I put together for the squadron, public affairs, and myself - waiting for the crews to sign it and then I'll be getting it framed for the wall.

Haletown and Zoomie - the runway was so smooth that I really couldn't tell the difference between Alert and Iqaluit.  Really well maintained runway.  

They were blasting in the quarry while I was there and I believe that most of that rock goes to the runway to maintain it.


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## Haletown

I was DEW Liner at the time and it was surprising how much crappy aggregate there was around.

So much was contaminated with salts of various types that it couldn't be used for concrete for things like hard stands or fuel tanks and the other problem was some weird clay structures that behaved really weird when they were worked . . .  not quite Leda Clays, but close.

Made runway maintenance "fun"


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## SupersonicMax

WingsofFury said:
			
		

> Haletown and Zoomie - the runway was so smooth that I really couldn't tell the difference between Alert and Iqaluit.  Really well maintained runway.



Except Iqualuit is actually concrete!


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## PuckChaser

Is that a typo or is there really a 20 year old Major?


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## OkanaganHeat

It is saying that he has been a pilot for 20 years, not that he is 20 years old.


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## WingsofFury

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Except Iqualuit is actually concrete!



Ahhhh!!!! lol  See, I have so much to learn...lol  

I do know that when we landed there were 3 container ships in the harbour - something else I rarely get to see!


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## PuckChaser

OkanaganHeat said:
			
		

> It is saying that he has been a pilot for 20 years, not that he is 20 years old.



Thanks, I guess that's why I didn't take English in post-secondary....  >


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## WingsofFury

Just a shameless plug here...

My feature article w/ photos about Op Boxtop done C-17 style got picked up by Canadian Aviator Magazine in their March/April issue.  You can find it at most Chapters locations.

It is not available online.

Cheers!


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## Haletown

This some of your work ??

http://hotrampphotography.com/PhotoAlbums/album_1285606509/


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## WingsofFury

Yep, that's one of my galleries from up there.  :nod:


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## Haletown

Some great shots there . . .  very well done.


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## WingsofFury

Thank you sir, appreciate your comment.


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## daftandbarmy

WingsofFury said:
			
		

> Thank you sir, appreciate your comment.



Send a copy to Russia. Forget about the fancy bombers and submarines, being able to safely land huge amounts of CSups and troops in massive cargo aircraft is what arctic sovereignty is all about!


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## WingsofFury

Now that the piece is in print, I'm taking the opportunity to chronicle my stay at CFS Alert and Op Boxtop through my blog in segments throughout the month of March.

The ownership has approved me posting the link below to my blog so that everyone can read about what it's like up there and what the whole Boxtop experience was like.

So here's the first part of my journey, and I'll make sure that all subsequent posts related to my stay will be contained in this thread.

Sitting on Top of the World - Part I


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## Container

Nevermind

I used the internet wrong.


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## WingsofFury

Read all about the work combat divers did up at CFS Alert last year.

Pump Broken? Call the Divers!


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## WingsofFury

Read about the debut of Canada's CC-177 Globemaster III during Op BOXTOP at CFS Alert last year.

Enter the Globemaster!


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