# Combat Turbans?



## A.Khan (22 Sep 2011)

;D this is not meant to be racists or offensive to anyone, but I was wondering...

I'm in cadets and I have a few friends who are Sikh and wear turbans. I was on parade with one of them and it was totally bada$$ he got like a light blue (air cadets) turban and he put the Air cadet cap brass on it, it was pretty cool lol. I know there are rules and regulations on ceremonial turbans within the CF and everything... but what about combat arms trades. How would a sikh or someone withe religious headdress regulations coupe with the helmet? Do they issue like combat turbans, or CadPat turbans, kevlar plates to place under the turban??

This is not the be taken seriously, I am however pretty curious because it could bring up a pretty big conflict? (Sorry if it offends anyone?)


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## brihard (22 Sep 2011)

Anyone working in a context where a helmet is a necessary piece of personal protective equipment will wear a helmet, full stop. I don't know exactly how Sikhs make it work, but they do. The turban itself isn't a religious devotion; it's a convenient way of bundling the hair, which remains uncut for religious purposes. Women are able to wear helmets with long hair, I assume the Sikhs bun their hair or some such.


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## mariomike (22 Sep 2011)

A.Khan said:
			
		

> How would a sikh or someone withe religious headdress regulations coupe with the helmet?



http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/54076/post-490444.html#msg490444
"To put a helmet on, you have to have an inner liner. My turban acts like an inner liner, so I just wear the kevlar shell over top."


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## ballz (22 Sep 2011)

Interesting... in that article he also mentions that his beard doesn't prevent him from wearing a gas mask? Actually how the hell would you be able to put on a gas mask with a turban on???

I thought Sikh's had to sign something saying they'd be willing to shave for safety reasons, and that those safety reasons were based on the fact that they may have to wear a gas mask?


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## mariomike (22 Sep 2011)

ballz said:
			
		

> Interesting... in that article he also mentions that his beard doesn't prevent him from wearing a gas mask? Actually how the hell would you be able to put on a gas mask with a turban on???
> 
> I thought Sikh's had to sign something saying they'd be willing to shave for safety reasons, and that those safety reasons were based on the fact that they may have to wear a gas mask?



Some more here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60394/post-561080.html#msg561080

"a. Hair and beard shall remain uncut, provided that the operational mission and safety is not jeopardized when it is required that the member wear occupational and operational equipment such as gas masks, oxygen masks, combat/vehicle/flying helmets, hard hats, scuba masks, etc. When a hazard clearly exists, the hair and/or beard shall be modified to the degree necessary for wearing the required equipment."


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## Jarnhamar (9 Oct 2011)

A member can wear a beard so long as they can still pass the quantum fit test for gas masks and make it through the gas hut.

If they can't get a seal and pass the gas hut with a beard they need to shave it in order to pass.

NBCD training is a universality of service thing meaning all members NEED to pass it, else they get released from the CF.

As per normal I'm sure there are loopholes.

Was the comment about wearing a turban under a helmet a serious one?  Considering the epic battle against oakleys vs CF ballistic eye wear, "It's not approved so they won't work", logically replacing the CF issue suspension system in the helmet for a turban seems like the same thing to me.


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Oct 2011)

I _think_ too many people confuse the large, more common turban with the requirement for a Sikh to have their hair covered. There are many forms of turbans that a Sikh may use, from large ones down to and including a simple headwrap, called a keski, should he want to wear a helmet. 

A keski is made up of same turban material but the length is approx 1mx1m. Keski also used by people during sports/outdoor activities where lots of body moments are involved.
http://www.ksat.com/news/27314626/detail.html

I've come across more than one Sikh in the CF, in the combat arms. They wear their helmet, with the harness, and a keski.

Wearing a keski meets the religious requirements for Sikhs.

Removing the helmet harness and filling the void with a large turban would be like using Skydex pads, which the CF doesn't allow because it supposedly makes the helmet ineffective. (This is not meant to be an open invitation to discuss the effectiveness of said pads vs. a harness. There's already a thread on that)


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## Jarnhamar (9 Oct 2011)

Recceguy,  
Right on.   I think it is a common mistake as well.  I've seen the more subtle versions (for lack of a better word) and they seemed to work fine.

They could probably even continue to wear them under a gas mask harness assuming the had a proper seal. I'll wear a recon wrap under my helmet and I have no issues, never tried it with a gas mask though.


A couple of years ago I remember seeing turbans available on logistik unicorps for purchase but I don't see them anymore.


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Oct 2011)

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> Recceguy,
> Right on.   I think it is a common mistake as well.  I've seen the more subtle versions (for lack of a better word) and they seemed to work fine.
> 
> They could probably even continue to wear them under a gas mask harness assuming the had a proper seal. I'll wear a recon wrap under my helmet and I have no issues, never tried it with a gas mask though.
> ...



Your (Sikh) profile on Logistic will enable you to see, and order, the turban. Same as Army types don't see Air Force or Navy stuff unless it's common dog. Understand, the turban that was shown on Logistic is a length of material. A common turban, IIRC, is about 6-7 yards worth. If you don't know how to wrap it, it's just a length of cloth.

I'm sure, if I'm out to lunch, someone will be along to sort it out.


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## Loachman (29 Nov 2011)

Apparently, approximately 1200 turbans were issued to people using their Logistik Unicorp points before the item was dropped for the majority of customers.

Remarkably few, if any, of the recipients were Sikhs.


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## cupper (29 Nov 2011)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Remarkably few, if any, of the recipients were Sikhs.



On some level that makes complete sense.


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## Thompson_JM (30 Nov 2011)

cupper said:
			
		

> On some level that makes complete sense.




Brings to mind the concept some people have of "well I dont really NEED it... but the CF is willing to give it to me, so what the heck... I'll order 10..."

The only other thing I wish Logistik Unicorp would allow us to get is our Top-up of Thermals, Gitch and T-Shirts... But then again, Base Clothing is usually never that far away on a base... and as a reservist unless we are full time Cl B we dont usually need to replenish every year either....


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Nov 2011)

Tommy said:
			
		

> Brings to mind the concept some people have of "well I dont really NEED it... but the CF is willing to give it to me, so what the heck... I'll order 10..."
> 
> The only other thing I wish Logistik Unicorp would allow us to get is our Top-up of Thermals, Gitch and T-Shirts... But then again, Base Clothing is usually never that far away on a base... and as a reservist unless we are full time Cl B we dont usually need to replenish every year either....



Your underwear entitlement as Cl A is every two years.


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## cupper (30 Nov 2011)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Your underwear entitlement as Cl A is every two years.



No wonder there are problems in the Reserves when you can only change your underwear every two years. ;D


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## Scott (1 Dec 2011)

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> A member can wear a beard so long as they can still pass the quantum fit test for gas masks and make it through the gas hut.
> 
> If they can't get a seal and pass the gas hut with a beard they need to shave it in order to pass.



There is something seriously wrong with this. Passing a qualitative or quantitative test with facial hair outside the parameters does not mean the mask fits you when you have a beard. It means you got lucky. I can make three different sized masks fit my melon by altering how I do the straps, but when I start moving in one that is not my size it almost immediately starts to leak - same would apply to those with beards.

Really, it's astounding that there are those who wills till put personal matters before inherent safety measures. And I really do not care about the religious affiliation argument, I have, for the last ten years, worked with people who call God all sorts of different things and this included guys who wore turbans - all of them showed up clean shaven where it was mandated.


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