# Re: Liberal Resolutions



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:26:44 -0500*
Hooray !!!!
However I shall still be voting Reform or Canadian Alliance, when Mr.
Chretien, lets me have the opportunity by calling an election !
-----Original Message-----
From: james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 1:16 PM
Subject: Liberal Resolutions
>
>
>
>Hello all,
>
>Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in addition to
>being in the reservers,
>I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel Convention
this
>weekend.   I would like
>to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past weekend:
>
>8.Remembrance Day
>
>WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
>the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
>
>WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
>veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
>
>WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
>is seen as a national concern
>
>BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
>recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
>3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
>that enshrines the 11th day of November as
>a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
>that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
>of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
>provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
>those who lost their lives defending our nation.
>
>Sponser:
>Young Liberals of Canada
>
>19.Canadian Armed Forces
>
>WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
>being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
>efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
>their primary responsibilities in Canada
>
>WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
>fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
>average is 2. 1
>
>WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
>personnel strengths
>
>WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
>with respect to quality of life issues, troop
>fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
>levels and quality of essential equipment and the
>loss of key capabilities
>
>BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
>the government of Canada to embark on a five year
>plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
>re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
>A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
>o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
>of service, and with the quality and quantity of
>equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
>F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
>1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
>2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
>3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
>4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
>in support of international agencies
>5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
>military activities.
>
>Sponsers:
>Nova Scotia Liberal Party
>Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
>Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
>National Liberal Caucus
>New Brunswick Liberal Association
>
>These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
>controversial and with
>very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular
among
>these circles, I would
>suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their support
of
>the CF with the two resolutions above.
>
>These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the
government
>can‘t hide from them either.
>Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for them
to
>arque against a position taken
>by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the
resolutions
>provide a powerful tool in securing
>government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is
Liberal
> is painted in a corner on the issue now.
>If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the
positions
>taken by the party this weekend, and ask
>them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
>important now to pressure the government to follow up
>on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
>government, it can work again
>
>Take care,
>
>Jim
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which
>it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
Any
>review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
action
>in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
>intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
>contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Rhett <lawson@cclacbrome.qc.ca>* on *Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:31:20 -0500*
Hello Mr. Hanna
Thank you for your message, I for one am pleased that the Armed Forces do in fact
have supporters as visible as you indicate.
Rhett Lawson
james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in addition to
> being in the reservers,
> I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel Convention this
> weekend.   I would like
> to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past weekend:
>
> 8.Remembrance Day
>
> WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
> the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
>
> WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
> veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
>
> WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
> is seen as a national concern
>
> BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
> recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
> 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
> that enshrines the 11th day of November as
> a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
> that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
> of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
> provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
> those who lost their lives defending our nation.
>
> Sponser:
> Young Liberals of Canada
>
> 19.Canadian Armed Forces
>
> WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
> being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
> efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
> their primary responsibilities in Canada
>
> WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
> fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
> average is 2. 1
>
> WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
> personnel strengths
>
> WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
> with respect to quality of life issues, troop
> fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
> levels and quality of essential equipment and the
> loss of key capabilities
>
> BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
> the government of Canada to embark on a five year
> plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
> re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
> A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
> o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
> of service, and with the quality and quantity of
> equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
> F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
> 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
> 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
> 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
> 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
> in support of international agencies
> 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
> military activities.
>
> Sponsers:
> Nova Scotia Liberal Party
> Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
> Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
> National Liberal Caucus
> New Brunswick Liberal Association
>
> These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
> controversial and with
> very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular among
> these circles, I would
> suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their support of
> the CF with the two resolutions above.
>
> These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the government
> can‘t hide from them either.
> Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for them to
> arque against a position taken
> by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the resolutions
> provide a powerful tool in securing
> government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is Liberal
>  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
> If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the positions
> taken by the party this weekend, and ask
> them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
> important now to pressure the government to follow up
> on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
> government, it can work again
>
> Take care,
>
> Jim
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:03:58 -0800*
It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
a Liberal. Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
wilderness. Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo? Do you really believe that
the paper is anything more than rhetoric? Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish
enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney didn‘t do just as bad a
hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why
apologize for a party that follows public opinion rather than leads it?
Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in addition to
> being in the reservers,
> I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel Convention this
> weekend.   I would like
> to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past weekend:
> 
> 8.Remembrance Day
> 
> WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
> the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
> 
> WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
> veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
> 
> WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
> is seen as a national concern
> 
> BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
> recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
> 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
> that enshrines the 11th day of November as
> a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
> that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
> of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
> provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
> those who lost their lives defending our nation.
> 
> Sponser:
> Young Liberals of Canada
> 
> 19.Canadian Armed Forces
> 
> WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
> being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
> efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
> their primary responsibilities in Canada
> 
> WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
> fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
> average is 2. 1
> 
> WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
> personnel strengths
> 
> WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
> with respect to quality of life issues, troop
> fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
> levels and quality of essential equipment and the
> loss of key capabilities
> 
> BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
> the government of Canada to embark on a five year
> plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
> re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
> A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
> o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
> of service, and with the quality and quantity of
> equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
> F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
> 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
> 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
> 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
> 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
> in support of international agencies
> 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
> military activities.
> 
> Sponsers:
> Nova Scotia Liberal Party
> Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
> Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
> National Liberal Caucus
> New Brunswick Liberal Association
> 
> These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
> controversial and with
> very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular among
> these circles, I would
> suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their support of
> the CF with the two resolutions above.
> 
> These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the government
> can‘t hide from them either.
> Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for them to
> arque against a position taken
> by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the resolutions
> provide a powerful tool in securing
> government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is Liberal
>  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
> If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the positions
> taken by the party this weekend, and ask
> them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
> important now to pressure the government to follow up
> on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
> government, it can work again
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Jim
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:52:16 -0500*
"Brooke Claxton", how long ago was that ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Edwards 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
>It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
>a Liberal. Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
>are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
>wilderness. Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
>the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo? Do you really believe that
>the paper is anything more than rhetoric? Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish
>enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney didn‘t do just as bad a
>hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why
>apologize for a party that follows public opinion rather than leads it?
>Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
>last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
>wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
>Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
>
>james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in addition
to
>> being in the reservers,
>> I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel Convention
this
>> weekend.   I would like
>> to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past
weekend:
>>
>> 8.Remembrance Day
>>
>> WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
>> the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
>>
>> WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
>> veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
>>
>> WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
>> is seen as a national concern
>>
>> BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
>> recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
>> 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
>> that enshrines the 11th day of November as
>> a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
>> that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
>> of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
>> provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
>> those who lost their lives defending our nation.
>>
>> Sponser:
>> Young Liberals of Canada
>>
>> 19.Canadian Armed Forces
>>
>> WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
>> being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
>> efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
>> their primary responsibilities in Canada
>>
>> WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
>> fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
>> average is 2. 1
>>
>> WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
>> personnel strengths
>>
>> WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
>> with respect to quality of life issues, troop
>> fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
>> levels and quality of essential equipment and the
>> loss of key capabilities
>>
>> BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
>> the government of Canada to embark on a five year
>> plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
>> re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
>> A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
>> o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
>> of service, and with the quality and quantity of
>> equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
>> F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
>> 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
>> 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
>> 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
>> 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
>> in support of international agencies
>> 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
>> military activities.
>>
>> Sponsers:
>> Nova Scotia Liberal Party
>> Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
>> Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
>> National Liberal Caucus
>> New Brunswick Liberal Association
>>
>> These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
>> controversial and with
>> very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular
among
>> these circles, I would
>> suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their
support of
>> the CF with the two resolutions above.
>>
>> These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the
government
>> can‘t hide from them either.
>> Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for
them to
>> arque against a position taken
>> by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the
resolutions
>> provide a powerful tool in securing
>> government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is
Liberal
>>  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
>> If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the
positions
>> taken by the party this weekend, and ask
>> them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
>> important now to pressure the government to follow up
>> on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
>> government, it can work again
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
Any
>> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
action
>> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
>> intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
>> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> message body.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Rhett <lawson@cclacbrome.qc.ca>* on *Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:51:19 -0500*
Now Ian, you be nice to James!
Ian Edwards wrote:
> It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
> a Liberal. Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
> are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
> wilderness. Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
> the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo? Do you really believe that
> the paper is anything more than rhetoric? Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish
> enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney didn‘t do just as bad a
> hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why
> apologize for a party that follows public opinion rather than leads it?
> Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
> last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
> wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
> Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
>
> james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in addition to
> > being in the reservers,
> > I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel Convention this
> > weekend.   I would like
> > to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past weekend:
> >
> > 8.Remembrance Day
> >
> > WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
> > the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
> >
> > WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
> > veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
> >
> > WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
> > is seen as a national concern
> >
> > BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
> > recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
> > 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
> > that enshrines the 11th day of November as
> > a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
> > that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
> > of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
> > provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
> > those who lost their lives defending our nation.
> >
> > Sponser:
> > Young Liberals of Canada
> >
> > 19.Canadian Armed Forces
> >
> > WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
> > being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
> > efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
> > their primary responsibilities in Canada
> >
> > WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
> > fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
> > average is 2. 1
> >
> > WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
> > personnel strengths
> >
> > WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
> > with respect to quality of life issues, troop
> > fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
> > levels and quality of essential equipment and the
> > loss of key capabilities
> >
> > BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
> > the government of Canada to embark on a five year
> > plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
> > re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
> > A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
> > o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
> > of service, and with the quality and quantity of
> > equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
> > F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
> > 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
> > 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
> > 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
> > 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
> > in support of international agencies
> > 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
> > military activities.
> >
> > Sponsers:
> > Nova Scotia Liberal Party
> > Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
> > Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
> > National Liberal Caucus
> > New Brunswick Liberal Association
> >
> > These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
> > controversial and with
> > very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular among
> > these circles, I would
> > suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their support of
> > the CF with the two resolutions above.
> >
> > These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the government
> > can‘t hide from them either.
> > Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for them to
> > arque against a position taken
> > by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the resolutions
> > provide a powerful tool in securing
> > government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is Liberal
> >  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
> > If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the positions
> > taken by the party this weekend, and ask
> > them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
> > important now to pressure the government to follow up
> > on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
> > government, it can work again
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
> > it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
> > review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
> > in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> > intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
> > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com* on *Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:14:09 -0500*
Hi Ian  Dave
Bear with me this may get complicated, as I receive only the digest version of
the newsletter.
I feel your points deserve a response.  I hope the group will forgive me going a
bit off-topic to respond.
First Ian:
You wrote:
It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
a Liberal.
Where did I say I was ashamed of being a Liberal?  I haven‘t contributed much to
this forum, mostly because
I generally have the good sense to keep my mouth shut on things others know
better than me, but on this
occasion I thought the resolutions would be of interest to the group, and that
all should know my bias and role.
In any case, I am not ashamed to be a Liberal.  That doesn‘t mean I can or will
defend 100 of the record of the
current or previous Liberal government, nor does it mean that I won‘t criticize
it in areas I feel need attention such as defence.
On the other hand, it does mean that, in my personal opinion, they best
represent the national interest of this country, and I feel
that the last 7 years demonstrate that.  For those of you who disagree,
especially with respect to National Defence, I understand and
respect your opinion.  I don‘t really feel this is a forum for discussing
politics outside of how it affects National Defence, so I hope we
can keep strictly political debate off this net.
Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
wilderness.
Well, I‘m not a lawyer, I‘m a chartered accountant.  While I now live in
Montreal, I grew up and went to school in Alberta, and I can tell you
as a fact that there are quite a few Liberals there who are not lawyers, and
that there really aren‘t a lot of
"party payoffs".  Any further debate on this should probably not be on this
forum as this point has nothing to
do with the military
Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo?
Alas, yes, as I copied the text from the policy manual.  Too bad you weren‘t at
the convention, we could have corrected it there.
 Do you really believe that the paper is anything more than rhetoric?
As a matter of fact, yes, I do.  Party resolutions represent the will of the
party.  These particular resolutions were classed as
"priority", which means they were guaranteed to be brought to the floor of the
entire convention to be put into official party policy.
Not every resolution is declared a priority, there are certain groups which have
a limited number of resolutions they
can declare to ensure the party convention votes on them.  As I indicated in the
first post, Resolution 19 on National Defence
was considered so important that 5 bodies sponsered it as a priority, INCLUDING
the national caucus all the MP‘s and Senators.
Does that mean I think the government will now jump up and down to act on this?
No, I don‘t.  These resolutions are not binding on the
government, as I stated in my earlier post.  However, they do push the
government, and if enough people push their Liberal MP‘s to act on it, they
will.  I have seen party resolution enacted at Conventions show up in the House
of Commons as legislation months after a convention.
So yes, I think the resolutions are more than rhetoric.
 Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney
didn‘t do just as bad a
hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why apologize for a
party that follows
public opinion rather than leads it?
Well, I have certainly seen posts, such as "why would anyone vote Liberal" on
this forum. It seems that the Liberals get more
than their fare share of blame for the current state of the armed forces, and I
can‘t deny that the Liberals were responsible for unification.
You won‘t get any arqument from me that NONE of the parties have particularly
served our military well.
Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
I have to admit that I don‘t know of Brooke Claxton.  I always though Perrin
Beatty did a pretty decent job.  I am a Liberal because
I beleive that the party best represents the interest of all Canadians.  I am
also a Liberal because I beleive that sometimes, it
helps to be on the inside of the process to influence the debate.  As a
westerner, I beleive we have been hurt by not being able
to voice our concerns as effectively in cabinet and in the party.  I don‘t think
the NEP would have happened if there were viable swing seats
in Alberta.  I have a number of concerns, including defence, which I believe I
can be a positive influence on the party.  The Liberal party has room
for a wide range of opinions, and I happen to be most comfortable there.
Now, I didn‘t want to go on politicking, but ya asked.
Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
Since I was born 1970, the federal government has changed hands 4 times, with
the Liberals in power for 20 years,
and the Tories 10.  The leadership of the Liberals changed 3 times, the Tories
6.  Twice, there were minority governments.
There are currently 5 parties represented in parliament, leading to the current
situation of a very divided opposition.  However, you
could easily make the arqument that there are in fact too many parties.  It is
not the fault of the Liberal Party that the Tories exploded into
three parties Reform, Bloc, PC.  However, that doesn‘t make it a one party
democracy.  We saw internal polls this weekend that showed the Liberals were
only consided the best party for the region in Ontario.  The government knows
its support is soft, and that it is threatened by all the other parties
in different areas of the country.  So, I don‘t buy the one-party thing.
Now Dave:
Good day Mr.James Hanna,
Gee, that sounds much better than "Cpl. Hanna, J."
    Thank you for keeping us abreast of positive Liberal happenings. It is
rather refreshing to hear that there are in fact some positive areas to hear
about in a sea of negative boondoggling and bleeding heart anti constructive
antics. I think the resolutions go far in attempting to correct a situation
that screams out for attention. One thing I found missing from the list of
objectives for the CF was, the defence of Canada and preparation for war. As
this is the bottom line for any nations defence requirement, perhaps an
amendment or supplement would be in order.
Well, you‘re right, its not spelled out there specifically.  However, I suppose
the question is,
how do you convince the public that more spending is necessary, in the midst of
a crisis in Health care,
and promises of tax cuts.  If we are to win the debate in the public mindand
the government will then surely
follow we have to "sell" the public on the need for a stronger military.  While
we may agree that preparation for
war is important, it would be a tough sell to the public.  The areas enumerated
in the resolution convinced the
convention to pass the resolution, and I hope will convince the public to
support it.
Additionally, I think that, from the military point of view, preparing for the
items enumerated, and preparing for war, don‘t look all that
different.  Perhaps I have too much confidence in NDHQ and the CDS, but I feel
they would use
Our Boy Scout duties are
secondary to our warrior status. Not meaning to take anything away from this
worthwhile initiative, it is interesting to note that it only caught Liberal
attention once it reached a state of crisis. So much suffering, loss of
reputation in the eyes of the world and Canadian credibility had to hit the
skids before Liberals became embarrassed enough to even attempt to react.
I agree its a long time coming, and I wish a similar resolution passed earlier.
It has been debated at previous conventions, but had never obtained a sponser to
become a "priority".  I think you can credit East Timor - our willingness to act
was hampered by our lack of resources.  Yes, the
government did get a wake up call, but I guess its better late than never.
    I too, will be voting Canadian Alliance.
Well, I respect  that.  I disagree with it, but I respect your choice.  Any
further debate is best held on another forum.
Dave Willard
Well thats all for now.  As an aside, I am enjoying the stories about the old
kit/uniforms as well.  From the sound of the battle dress/bush dress
threads, I‘m glad I only saw the current combats.  Now, if I could only get
issued the new cam stuff before I have to release....
James Hanna
Nemo me impune lacessit
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:08:10 -0800*
Some of my best friends are lawyers. Some of those lawyers are Liberals.
"Oh Lord,it‘s hard to be humble, when your perfect in every way...." 
I almost prefer the Holier than thou attitude the NDP used to have.
When I lived in Regina for 11 years it was easy to poke fun at "St.
Thomas of Weyburn" TC Douglas but I did so at risk to my person.
If I lived in the west end of Montreal I probably would vote Liberal
too. But I don‘t so I won‘t. - 30 -
Rhett wrote:
> 
> Now Ian, you be nice to James!
> 
> Ian Edwards wrote:
> 
> > It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
> > a Liberal. Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
> > are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
> > wilderness. Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
> > the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo? Do you really believe that
> > the paper is anything more than rhetoric? Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish
> > enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney didn‘t do just as bad a
> > hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why
> > apologize for a party that follows public opinion rather than leads it?
> > Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
> > last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
> > wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
> > Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
> >
> > james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in addition to
> > > being in the reservers,
> > > I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel Convention this
> > > weekend.   I would like
> > > to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past weekend:
> > >
> > > 8.Remembrance Day
> > >
> > > WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
> > > the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
> > >
> > > WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
> > > veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
> > >
> > > WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
> > > is seen as a national concern
> > >
> > > BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
> > > recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
> > > 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
> > > that enshrines the 11th day of November as
> > > a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
> > > that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
> > > of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
> > > provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
> > > those who lost their lives defending our nation.
> > >
> > > Sponser:
> > > Young Liberals of Canada
> > >
> > > 19.Canadian Armed Forces
> > >
> > > WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
> > > being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
> > > efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
> > > their primary responsibilities in Canada
> > >
> > > WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
> > > fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
> > > average is 2. 1
> > >
> > > WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
> > > personnel strengths
> > >
> > > WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
> > > with respect to quality of life issues, troop
> > > fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
> > > levels and quality of essential equipment and the
> > > loss of key capabilities
> > >
> > > BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
> > > the government of Canada to embark on a five year
> > > plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
> > > re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
> > > A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
> > > o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
> > > of service, and with the quality and quantity of
> > > equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
> > > F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
> > > 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
> > > 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
> > > 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
> > > 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
> > > in support of international agencies
> > > 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
> > > military activities.
> > >
> > > Sponsers:
> > > Nova Scotia Liberal Party
> > > Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
> > > Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
> > > National Liberal Caucus
> > > New Brunswick Liberal Association
> > >
> > > These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
> > > controversial and with
> > > very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular among
> > > these circles, I would
> > > suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their support of
> > > the CF with the two resolutions above.
> > >
> > > These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the government
> > > can‘t hide from them either.
> > > Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for them to
> > > arque against a position taken
> > > by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the resolutions
> > > provide a powerful tool in securing
> > > government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is Liberal
> > >  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
> > > If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the positions
> > > taken by the party this weekend, and ask
> > > them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
> > > important now to pressure the government to follow up
> > > on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
> > > government, it can work again
> > >
> > > Take care,
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which
> > > it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any
> > > review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
> > > in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> > > intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
> > > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
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> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:13:36 -0800*
Well, glad you asked. MND during the Korean War and saw the buildup of
the Canadian Army and correspondingly with other Services for NATO.
The Korean War was 1950-1953. Uncle Louis was PM.
John Gilmour wrote:
> 
> "Brooke Claxton", how long ago was that ?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Edwards 
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
> 
> >It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
> >a Liberal. Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
> >are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
> >wilderness. Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
> >the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo? Do you really believe that
> >the paper is anything more than rhetoric? Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish
> >enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney didn‘t do just as bad a
> >hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why
> >apologize for a party that follows public opinion rather than leads it?
> >Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
> >last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
> >wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
> >Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
> >
> >james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in addition
> to
> >> being in the reservers,
> >> I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel Convention
> this
> >> weekend.   I would like
> >> to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past
> weekend:
> >>
> >> 8.Remembrance Day
> >>
> >> WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
> >> the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
> >>
> >> WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
> >> veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
> >>
> >> WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
> >> is seen as a national concern
> >>
> >> BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
> >> recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
> >> 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
> >> that enshrines the 11th day of November as
> >> a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
> >> that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
> >> of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
> >> provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
> >> those who lost their lives defending our nation.
> >>
> >> Sponser:
> >> Young Liberals of Canada
> >>
> >> 19.Canadian Armed Forces
> >>
> >> WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
> >> being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
> >> efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
> >> their primary responsibilities in Canada
> >>
> >> WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
> >> fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
> >> average is 2. 1
> >>
> >> WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
> >> personnel strengths
> >>
> >> WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
> >> with respect to quality of life issues, troop
> >> fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
> >> levels and quality of essential equipment and the
> >> loss of key capabilities
> >>
> >> BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
> >> the government of Canada to embark on a five year
> >> plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
> >> re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
> >> A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
> >> o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
> >> of service, and with the quality and quantity of
> >> equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
> >> F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
> >> 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
> >> 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
> >> 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
> >> 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
> >> in support of international agencies
> >> 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
> >> military activities.
> >>
> >> Sponsers:
> >> Nova Scotia Liberal Party
> >> Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
> >> Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
> >> National Liberal Caucus
> >> New Brunswick Liberal Association
> >>
> >> These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
> >> controversial and with
> >> very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular
> among
> >> these circles, I would
> >> suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their
> support of
> >> the CF with the two resolutions above.
> >>
> >> These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the
> government
> >> can‘t hide from them either.
> >> Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for
> them to
> >> arque against a position taken
> >> by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the
> resolutions
> >> provide a powerful tool in securing
> >> government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is
> Liberal
> >>  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
> >> If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the
> positions
> >> taken by the party this weekend, and ask
> >> them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
> >> important now to pressure the government to follow up
> >> on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
> >> government, it can work again
> >>
> >> Take care,
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which
> >> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
> Any
> >> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
> action
> >> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> >> intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error, please
> >> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> message body.
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"wooooo" <wooooo@asiaonline.net>* on *Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:07:40  0800*
Let‘s go, 3rd HERD!!!
Donald
-----Original Message-----
From: james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: 22 March, 2000 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
>
>
>
>
>Hi Ian  Dave
>
>Bear with me this may get complicated, as I receive only the digest version
of
>the newsletter.
>I feel your points deserve a response.  I hope the group will forgive me
going a
>bit off-topic to respond.
>
>First Ian:
>
>You wrote:
>
>
>It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
>a Liberal.
>
>Where did I say I was ashamed of being a Liberal?  I haven‘t contributed
much to
>this forum, mostly because
>I generally have the good sense to keep my mouth shut on things others know
>better than me, but on this
>occasion I thought the resolutions would be of interest to the group, and
that
>all should know my bias and role.
>In any case, I am not ashamed to be a Liberal.  That doesn‘t mean I can or
will
>defend 100 of the record of the
>current or previous Liberal government, nor does it mean that I won‘t
criticize
>it in areas I feel need attention such as defence.
>On the other hand, it does mean that, in my personal opinion, they best
>represent the national interest of this country, and I feel
>that the last 7 years demonstrate that.  For those of you who disagree,
>especially with respect to National Defence, I understand and
>respect your opinion.  I don‘t really feel this is a forum for discussing
>politics outside of how it affects National Defence, so I hope we
>can keep strictly political debate off this net.
>
>Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
>are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
>wilderness.
>
>Well, I‘m not a lawyer, I‘m a chartered accountant.  While I now live in
>Montreal, I grew up and went to school in Alberta, and I can tell you
>as a fact that there are quite a few Liberals there who are not lawyers,
and
>that there really aren‘t a lot of
>"party payoffs".  Any further debate on this should probably not be on this
>forum as this point has nothing to
>do with the military
>
>Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
>the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo?
>
>Alas, yes, as I copied the text from the policy manual.  Too bad you
weren‘t at
>the convention, we could have corrected it there.
>
> Do you really believe that the paper is anything more than rhetoric?
>
>As a matter of fact, yes, I do.  Party resolutions represent the will of
the
>party.  These particular resolutions were classed as
>"priority", which means they were guaranteed to be brought to the floor of
the
>entire convention to be put into official party policy.
>Not every resolution is declared a priority, there are certain groups which
have
>a limited number of resolutions they
>can declare to ensure the party convention votes on them.  As I indicated
in the
>first post, Resolution 19 on National Defence
>was considered so important that 5 bodies sponsered it as a priority,
INCLUDING
>the national caucus all the MP‘s and Senators.
>
>Does that mean I think the government will now jump up and down to act on
this?
>No, I don‘t.  These resolutions are not binding on the
>government, as I stated in my earlier post.  However, they do push the
>government, and if enough people push their Liberal MP‘s to act on it, they
>will.  I have seen party resolution enacted at Conventions show up in the
House
>of Commons as legislation months after a convention.
>So yes, I think the resolutions are more than rhetoric.
>
> Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish enough to believe that Diefenbaker and
Mulroney
>didn‘t do just as bad a
>hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why apologize
for a
>party that follows
>public opinion rather than leads it?
>
>Well, I have certainly seen posts, such as "why would anyone vote Liberal"
on
>this forum. It seems that the Liberals get more
>than their fare share of blame for the current state of the armed forces,
and I
>can‘t deny that the Liberals were responsible for unification.
>You won‘t get any arqument from me that NONE of the parties have
particularly
>served our military well.
>
>Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
>last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
>wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
>
>I have to admit that I don‘t know of Brooke Claxton.  I always though
Perrin
>Beatty did a pretty decent job.  I am a Liberal because
>I beleive that the party best represents the interest of all Canadians.  I
am
>also a Liberal because I beleive that sometimes, it
>helps to be on the inside of the process to influence the debate.  As a
>westerner, I beleive we have been hurt by not being able
>to voice our concerns as effectively in cabinet and in the party.  I don‘t
think
>the NEP would have happened if there were viable swing seats
>in Alberta.  I have a number of concerns, including defence, which I
believe I
>can be a positive influence on the party.  The Liberal party has room
>for a wide range of opinions, and I happen to be most comfortable there.
>
>Now, I didn‘t want to go on politicking, but ya asked.
>
>Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
>Since I was born 1970, the federal government has changed hands 4 times,
with
>the Liberals in power for 20 years,
>and the Tories 10.  The leadership of the Liberals changed 3 times, the
Tories
>6.  Twice, there were minority governments.
>There are currently 5 parties represented in parliament, leading to the
current
>situation of a very divided opposition.  However, you
>could easily make the arqument that there are in fact too many parties.  It
is
>not the fault of the Liberal Party that the Tories exploded into
>three parties Reform, Bloc, PC.  However, that doesn‘t make it a one
party
>democracy.  We saw internal polls this weekend that showed the Liberals
were
>only consided the best party for the region in Ontario.  The government
knows
>its support is soft, and that it is threatened by all the other parties
>in different areas of the country.  So, I don‘t buy the one-party thing.
>
>Now Dave:
>
>Good day Mr.James Hanna,
>
>Gee, that sounds much better than "Cpl. Hanna, J."
>
>    Thank you for keeping us abreast of positive Liberal happenings. It is
>rather refreshing to hear that there are in fact some positive areas to
hear
>about in a sea of negative boondoggling and bleeding heart anti
constructive
>antics. I think the resolutions go far in attempting to correct a situation
>that screams out for attention. One thing I found missing from the list of
>objectives for the CF was, the defence of Canada and preparation for war.
As
>this is the bottom line for any nations defence requirement, perhaps an
>amendment or supplement would be in order.
>
>Well, you‘re right, its not spelled out there specifically.  However, I
suppose
>the question is,
>how do you convince the public that more spending is necessary, in the
midst of
>a crisis in Health care,
>and promises of tax cuts.  If we are to win the debate in the public
mindand
>the government will then surely
>follow we have to "sell" the public on the need for a stronger military.
While
>we may agree that preparation for
>war is important, it would be a tough sell to the public.  The areas
enumerated
>in the resolution convinced the
>convention to pass the resolution, and I hope will convince the public to
>support it.
>
>Additionally, I think that, from the military point of view, preparing for
the
>items enumerated, and preparing for war, don‘t look all that
>different.  Perhaps I have too much confidence in NDHQ and the CDS, but I
feel
>they would use
>
>Our Boy Scout duties are
>secondary to our warrior status. Not meaning to take anything away from
this
>worthwhile initiative, it is interesting to note that it only caught
Liberal
>attention once it reached a state of crisis. So much suffering, loss of
>reputation in the eyes of the world and Canadian credibility had to hit the
>skids before Liberals became embarrassed enough to even attempt to react.
>
>I agree its a long time coming, and I wish a similar resolution passed
earlier.
>It has been debated at previous conventions, but had never obtained a
sponser to
>become a "priority".  I think you can credit East Timor - our willingness
to act
>was hampered by our lack of resources.  Yes, the
>government did get a wake up call, but I guess its better late than never.
>
>    I too, will be voting Canadian Alliance.
>
>Well, I respect  that.  I disagree with it, but I respect your choice.  Any
>further debate is best held on another forum.
>
>
>Dave Willard
>
>Well thats all for now.  As an aside, I am enjoying the stories about the
old
>kit/uniforms as well.  From the sound of the battle dress/bush dress
>threads, I‘m glad I only saw the current combats.  Now, if I could only get
>issued the new cam stuff before I have to release....
>
>
>
>James Hanna
>
>Nemo me impune lacessit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>      The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
to
>      which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>      material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
or
>      taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
>      entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you
>      received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
material
>      from any computer.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com>* on *Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:53:37 -0500*
Thanks for the info !
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Edwards 
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
>Well, glad you asked. MND during the Korean War and saw the buildup of
>the Canadian Army and correspondingly with other Services for NATO.
>The Korean War was 1950-1953. Uncle Louis was PM.
>
>John Gilmour wrote:
>>
>> "Brooke Claxton", how long ago was that ?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ian Edwards 
>> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
>> Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 9:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
>>
>> >It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
>> >a Liberal. Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
>> >are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
>> >wilderness. Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
>> >the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo? Do you really believe that
>> >the paper is anything more than rhetoric? Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish
>> >enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney didn‘t do just as bad a
>> >hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why
>> >apologize for a party that follows public opinion rather than leads it?
>> >Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
>> >last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
>> >wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
>> >Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
>> >
>> >james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello all,
>> >>
>> >> Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in
addition
>> to
>> >> being in the reservers,
>> >> I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel
Convention
>> this
>> >> weekend.   I would like
>> >> to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past
>> weekend:
>> >>
>> >> 8.Remembrance Day
>> >>
>> >> WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
>> >> the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
>> >>
>> >> WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
>> >> veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
>> >>
>> >> WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
>> >> is seen as a national concern
>> >>
>> >> BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
>> >> recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
>> >> 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
>> >> that enshrines the 11th day of November as
>> >> a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
>> >> that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
>> >> of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
>> >> provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
>> >> those who lost their lives defending our nation.
>> >>
>> >> Sponser:
>> >> Young Liberals of Canada
>> >>
>> >> 19.Canadian Armed Forces
>> >>
>> >> WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
>> >> being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
>> >> efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
>> >> their primary responsibilities in Canada
>> >>
>> >> WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
>> >> fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
>> >> average is 2. 1
>> >>
>> >> WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
>> >> personnel strengths
>> >>
>> >> WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
>> >> with respect to quality of life issues, troop
>> >> fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
>> >> levels and quality of essential equipment and the
>> >> loss of key capabilities
>> >>
>> >> BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
>> >> the government of Canada to embark on a five year
>> >> plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
>> >> re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
>> >> A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
>> >> o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
>> >> of service, and with the quality and quantity of
>> >> equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
>> >> F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
>> >> 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
>> >> 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
>> >> 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
>> >> 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
>> >> in support of international agencies
>> >> 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
>> >> military activities.
>> >>
>> >> Sponsers:
>> >> Nova Scotia Liberal Party
>> >> Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
>> >> Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
>> >> National Liberal Caucus
>> >> New Brunswick Liberal Association
>> >>
>> >> These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
>> >> controversial and with
>> >> very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not
popular
>> among
>> >> these circles, I would
>> >> suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their
>> support of
>> >> the CF with the two resolutions above.
>> >>
>> >> These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the
>> government
>> >> can‘t hide from them either.
>> >> Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for
>> them to
>> >> arque against a position taken
>> >> by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the
>> resolutions
>> >> provide a powerful tool in securing
>> >> government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she
is
>> Liberal
>> >>  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
>> >> If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the
>> positions
>> >> taken by the party this weekend, and ask
>> >> them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.
Its
>> >> important now to pressure the government to follow up
>> >> on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
>> >> government, it can work again
>> >>
>> >> Take care,
>> >>
>> >> Jim
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
to
>> which
>> >> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.
>> Any
>> >> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of
any
>> action
>> >> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than
the
>> >> intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error,
please
>> >> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >> message body.
>> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> >message body.
>> >
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
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>> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> message body.
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"dave newcombe" <davebo@seaside.net>* on *Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:11:50 -0800*
I don‘t think we will ever get a Government that values our Armed Forces.
We get the government that we deserve, until the "People of Canada" decide
that Defence is an issue worth paying for, we will be stuck with the people
on the present political scene.  If we one day get a Government that
actually has more than a token amount of former Service people in it, then
maybe we can find funding.  Where is Lewis Mackensie when you need him.sp?
The citizens of Canada don‘t believe there are any threats to our nation.
We will just ignore the fact that our largest neighbour is running out of
water.  Other nations are running out of space for their citizens.  I think
last summer‘s "invasion" was just a test of our capabilities to detect and
handle illegal immigration.
Always cynical
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gilmour" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
> "Brooke Claxton", how long ago was that ?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Edwards 
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
>
>
> >It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
> >a Liberal. Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
> >are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
> >wilderness. Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
> >the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo? Do you really believe that
> >the paper is anything more than rhetoric? Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish
> >enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney didn‘t do just as bad a
> >hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why
> >apologize for a party that follows public opinion rather than leads it?
> >Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
> >last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
> >wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
> >Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
> >
> >james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in
addition
> to
> >> being in the reservers,
> >> I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel
Convention
> this
> >> weekend.   I would like
> >> to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past
> weekend:
> >>
> >> 8.Remembrance Day
> >>
> >> WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
> >> the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
> >>
> >> WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
> >> veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
> >>
> >> WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
> >> is seen as a national concern
> >>
> >> BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
> >> recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
> >> 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
> >> that enshrines the 11th day of November as
> >> a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
> >> that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
> >> of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
> >> provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
> >> those who lost their lives defending our nation.
> >>
> >> Sponser:
> >> Young Liberals of Canada
> >>
> >> 19.Canadian Armed Forces
> >>
> >> WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
> >> being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
> >> efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
> >> their primary responsibilities in Canada
> >>
> >> WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
> >> fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
> >> average is 2. 1
> >>
> >> WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
> >> personnel strengths
> >>
> >> WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
> >> with respect to quality of life issues, troop
> >> fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
> >> levels and quality of essential equipment and the
> >> loss of key capabilities
> >>
> >> BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
> >> the government of Canada to embark on a five year
> >> plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
> >> re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
> >> A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
> >> o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
> >> of service, and with the quality and quantity of
> >> equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
> >> F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
> >> 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
> >> 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
> >> 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
> >> 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
> >> in support of international agencies
> >> 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
> >> military activities.
> >>
> >> Sponsers:
> >> Nova Scotia Liberal Party
> >> Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
> >> Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
> >> National Liberal Caucus
> >> New Brunswick Liberal Association
> >>
> >> These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
> >> controversial and with
> >> very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular
> among
> >> these circles, I would
> >> suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their
> support of
> >> the CF with the two resolutions above.
> >>
> >> These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the
> government
> >> can‘t hide from them either.
> >> Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for
> them to
> >> arque against a position taken
> >> by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the
> resolutions
> >> provide a powerful tool in securing
> >> government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is
> Liberal
> >>  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
> >> If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the
> positions
> >> taken by the party this weekend, and ask
> >> them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
> >> important now to pressure the government to follow up
> >> on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
> >> government, it can work again
> >>
> >> Take care,
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
to
> which
> >> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.
> Any
> >> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
> action
> >> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than
the
> >> intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error,
please
> >> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> message body.
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
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----------



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Carl DINSDALE <joscol@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:52:59 -0600*
Dave,
Chilling yet valid thoughts, and let‘s not forget the very real possibility of
internal strife or disaster that may require military intervention. Who knows,
Toronto could get another snowstorm?
Carl
dave newcombe wrote:
> I don‘t think we will ever get a Government that values our Armed Forces.
> We get the government that we deserve, until the "People of Canada" decide
> that Defence is an issue worth paying for, we will be stuck with the people
> on the present political scene.  If we one day get a Government that
> actually has more than a token amount of former Service people in it, then
> maybe we can find funding.  Where is Lewis Mackensie when you need him.sp?
> The citizens of Canada don‘t believe there are any threats to our nation.
> We will just ignore the fact that our largest neighbour is running out of
> water.  Other nations are running out of space for their citizens.  I think
> last summer‘s "invasion" was just a test of our capabilities to detect and
> handle illegal immigration.
> Always cynical
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Gilmour" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 4:52 AM
> Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
>
> > "Brooke Claxton", how long ago was that ?
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ian Edwards 
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
> > Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 9:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: Liberal Resolutions
> >
> >
> > >It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
> > >a Liberal. Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
> > >are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
> > >wilderness. Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
> > >the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo? Do you really believe that
> > >the paper is anything more than rhetoric? Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish
> > >enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney didn‘t do just as bad a
> > >hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why
> > >apologize for a party that follows public opinion rather than leads it?
> > >Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
> > >last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
> > >wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
> > >Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
> > >
> > >james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello all,
> > >>
> > >> Well, I might as well come out of the closet and admit that, in
> addition
> > to
> > >> being in the reservers,
> > >> I am member of the Liberal Party, and I attended the Bienniel
> Convention
> > this
> > >> weekend.   I would like
> > >> to bring this groups attention to two resolutions passed this past
> > weekend:
> > >>
> > >> 8.Remembrance Day
> > >>
> > >> WHEREAS the sacrifices of our soldiers have pre s e r v e d
> > >> the rights and freedoms of all Canadians
> > >>
> > >> WHEREAS Canadians recognize the sacrifice of our war
> > >> veterans as an unalienable part of our shared heritage
> > >>
> > >> WHEREAS the preservation of Canadian heritage
> > >> is seen as a national concern
> > >>
> > >> BE IT RESOLVED that the Liberal Party of Canada
> > >> recommend that the federal government repeal Sec.
> > >> 3 of the Holidays Act, and in its place pass new leg-islation
> > >> that enshrines the 11th day of November as
> > >> a day of solemn remembrance and requires that on
> > >> that day, commercial businesses, with the exception
> > >> of those services deemed absolutely necessary, in all
> > >> provinces and territories remain closed in respect for
> > >> those who lost their lives defending our nation.
> > >>
> > >> Sponser:
> > >> Young Liberals of Canada
> > >>
> > >> 19.Canadian Armed Forces
> > >>
> > >> WHEREAS the Canadian Armed Forces are increasingly
> > >> being called upon to participate in peacekeeping
> > >> efforts due to regional conflicts while continuing
> > >> their primary responsibilities in Canada
> > >>
> > >> WHEREAS Canadian defence expenditures have
> > >> fallen to 1.1 of GDP in 1999-2000 while the NATO
> > >> average is 2. 1
> > >>
> > >> WHEREAS this reduction has led to insufficient
> > >> personnel strengths
> > >>
> > >> WHEREAS the Forces continue to experience problems
> > >> with respect to quality of life issues, troop
> > >> fatigue based on increasing deployments, inadequate
> > >> levels and quality of essential equipment and the
> > >> loss of key capabilities
> > >>
> > >> BE IT RESOLVE that the Liberal Party of Canada urg e
> > >> the government of Canada to embark on a five year
> > >> plan to increase significantly the defense budget and
> > >> re f o rm national defense policies in order that Canadian
> > >> A rmed Forces personnel are provided with eff i c i e n t
> > >> o rganization, proper living facilities and terms and conditions
> > >> of service, and with the quality and quantity of
> > >> equipment necessary to permit the Canadian Arm e d
> > >> F o rces to perf o rm effectively the following ro l e s :
> > >> 1 maintaining surveillance of Canada?s territory
> > >> 2 p roviding emergency support to civilian authorities
> > >> 3 providing search and rescue services in Canada
> > >> 4 fulfilling peacekeeping and humanitarian opera-tions
> > >> in support of international agencies
> > >> 5 supporting NATO or other allied sponsored
> > >> military activities.
> > >>
> > >> Sponsers:
> > >> Nova Scotia Liberal Party
> > >> Liberal Party of Canada British Columbia
> > >> Liberal Party of Canada Ontario
> > >> National Liberal Caucus
> > >> New Brunswick Liberal Association
> > >>
> > >> These resolutions both passed with no debate meaning they were not
> > >> controversial and with
> > >> very little opposition.  While I am aware that the party is not popular
> > among
> > >> these circles, I would
> > >> suggest that the rank and file of the party has demonstrated their
> > support of
> > >> the CF with the two resolutions above.
> > >>
> > >> These resolutions are not binding on the government however, the
> > government
> > >> can‘t hide from them either.
> > >> Its easy for them to dismiss Reform attacks,  but it‘s pretty hard for
> > them to
> > >> arque against a position taken
> > >> by their own party.  I would suggest to all those inclined that the
> > resolutions
> > >> provide a powerful tool in securing
> > >> government support for the CF.  In a sense, your local MP if he/she is
> > Liberal
> > >>  is painted in a corner on the issue now.
> > >> If you do have a Liberal MP, call them up, tell them you support the
> > positions
> > >> taken by the party this weekend, and ask
> > >> them that they personally support the above resolutions in Caucus.  Its
> > >> important now to pressure the government to follow up
> > >> on the commitment expressed above.  I‘ve seen it work before with this
> > >> government, it can work again
> > >>
> > >> Take care,
> > >>
> > >> Jim
> > >>
> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
> to
> > which
> > >> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material.
> > Any
> > >> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
> > action
> > >> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than
> the
> > >> intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received this in error,
> please
> > >> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
> > >>
> > >> --------------------------------------------------------
> > >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > >> message body.
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > >message body.
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Gunner <randr1@home.com>* on *Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:59:08 -0700*
Liberals promised to get ride of the GST...we are still waiting!
james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Ian  Dave
> 
> Bear with me this may get complicated, as I receive only the digest version of
> the newsletter.
> I feel your points deserve a response.  I hope the group will forgive me going a
> bit off-topic to respond.
> 
> First Ian:
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> It‘s interesting that you are/were ashamed to admit that you are
> a Liberal.
> 
> Where did I say I was ashamed of being a Liberal?  I haven‘t contributed much to
> this forum, mostly because
> I generally have the good sense to keep my mouth shut on things others know
> better than me, but on this
> occasion I thought the resolutions would be of interest to the group, and that
> all should know my bias and role.
> In any case, I am not ashamed to be a Liberal.  That doesn‘t mean I can or will
> defend 100 of the record of the
> current or previous Liberal government, nor does it mean that I won‘t criticize
> it in areas I feel need attention such as defence.
> On the other hand, it does mean that, in my personal opinion, they best
> represent the national interest of this country, and I feel
> that the last 7 years demonstrate that.  For those of you who disagree,
> especially with respect to National Defence, I understand and
> respect your opinion.  I don‘t really feel this is a forum for discussing
> politics outside of how it affects National Defence, so I hope we
> can keep strictly political debate off this net.
> 
> Are you also a lawyer? In the West about the only Liberals
> are lawyers looking for party payoffs for waiving the flag in the
> wilderness.
> 
> Well, I‘m not a lawyer, I‘m a chartered accountant.  While I now live in
> Montreal, I grew up and went to school in Alberta, and I can tell you
> as a fact that there are quite a few Liberals there who are not lawyers, and
> that there really aren‘t a lot of
> "party payoffs".  Any further debate on this should probably not be on this
> forum as this point has nothing to
> do with the military
> 
> Does the Party paper actually spell defence as defense ie.
> the Amuricun way, or is that just your typo?
> 
> Alas, yes, as I copied the text from the policy manual.  Too bad you weren‘t at
> the convention, we could have corrected it there.
> 
>  Do you really believe that the paper is anything more than rhetoric?
> 
> As a matter of fact, yes, I do.  Party resolutions represent the will of the
> party.  These particular resolutions were classed as
> "priority", which means they were guaranteed to be brought to the floor of the
> entire convention to be put into official party policy.
> Not every resolution is declared a priority, there are certain groups which have
> a limited number of resolutions they
> can declare to ensure the party convention votes on them.  As I indicated in the
> first post, Resolution 19 on National Defence
> was considered so important that 5 bodies sponsered it as a priority, INCLUDING
> the national caucus all the MP‘s and Senators.
> 
> Does that mean I think the government will now jump up and down to act on this?
> No, I don‘t.  These resolutions are not binding on the
> government, as I stated in my earlier post.  However, they do push the
> government, and if enough people push their Liberal MP‘s to act on it, they
> will.  I have seen party resolution enacted at Conventions show up in the House
> of Commons as legislation months after a convention.
> So yes, I think the resolutions are more than rhetoric.
> 
>  Do you think ‘we‘ are foolish enough to believe that Diefenbaker and Mulroney
> didn‘t do just as bad a
> hatchet job on the Canadian ARMED Forces as the Liberals, so why apologize for a
> party that follows
> public opinion rather than leads it?
> 
> Well, I have certainly seen posts, such as "why would anyone vote Liberal" on
> this forum. It seems that the Liberals get more
> than their fare share of blame for the current state of the armed forces, and I
> can‘t deny that the Liberals were responsible for unification.
> You won‘t get any arqument from me that NONE of the parties have particularly
> served our military well.
> 
> Why are you a Liberal? Is is just for lack of a viable alternative? The
> last good Defence Minister was Brooke Claxton! He was a Liberal and
> wasn‘t known for listening to constituents or fellow party members.
> 
> I have to admit that I don‘t know of Brooke Claxton.  I always though Perrin
> Beatty did a pretty decent job.  I am a Liberal because
> I beleive that the party best represents the interest of all Canadians.  I am
> also a Liberal because I beleive that sometimes, it
> helps to be on the inside of the process to influence the debate.  As a
> westerner, I beleive we have been hurt by not being able
> to voice our concerns as effectively in cabinet and in the party.  I don‘t think
> the NEP would have happened if there were viable swing seats
> in Alberta.  I have a number of concerns, including defence, which I believe I
> can be a positive influence on the party.  The Liberal party has room
> for a wide range of opinions, and I happen to be most comfortable there.
> 
> Now, I didn‘t want to go on politicking, but ya asked.
> 
> Alas, we are a one-party democracy.
> Since I was born 1970, the federal government has changed hands 4 times, with
> the Liberals in power for 20 years,
> and the Tories 10.  The leadership of the Liberals changed 3 times, the Tories
> 6.  Twice, there were minority governments.
> There are currently 5 parties represented in parliament, leading to the current
> situation of a very divided opposition.  However, you
> could easily make the arqument that there are in fact too many parties.  It is
> not the fault of the Liberal Party that the Tories exploded into
> three parties Reform, Bloc, PC.  However, that doesn‘t make it a one party
> democracy.  We saw internal polls this weekend that showed the Liberals were
> only consided the best party for the region in Ontario.  The government knows
> its support is soft, and that it is threatened by all the other parties
> in different areas of the country.  So, I don‘t buy the one-party thing.
> 
> Now Dave:
> 
> Good day Mr.James Hanna,
> 
> Gee, that sounds much better than "Cpl. Hanna, J."
> 
>     Thank you for keeping us abreast of positive Liberal happenings. It is
> rather refreshing to hear that there are in fact some positive areas to hear
> about in a sea of negative boondoggling and bleeding heart anti constructive
> antics. I think the resolutions go far in attempting to correct a situation
> that screams out for attention. One thing I found missing from the list of
> objectives for the CF was, the defence of Canada and preparation for war. As
> this is the bottom line for any nations defence requirement, perhaps an
> amendment or supplement would be in order.
> 
> Well, you‘re right, its not spelled out there specifically.  However, I suppose
> the question is,
> how do you convince the public that more spending is necessary, in the midst of
> a crisis in Health care,
> and promises of tax cuts.  If we are to win the debate in the public mindand
> the government will then surely
> follow we have to "sell" the public on the need for a stronger military.  While
> we may agree that preparation for
> war is important, it would be a tough sell to the public.  The areas enumerated
> in the resolution convinced the
> convention to pass the resolution, and I hope will convince the public to
> support it.
> 
> Additionally, I think that, from the military point of view, preparing for the
> items enumerated, and preparing for war, don‘t look all that
> different.  Perhaps I have too much confidence in NDHQ and the CDS, but I feel
> they would use
> 
> Our Boy Scout duties are
> secondary to our warrior status. Not meaning to take anything away from this
> worthwhile initiative, it is interesting to note that it only caught Liberal
> attention once it reached a state of crisis. So much suffering, loss of
> reputation in the eyes of the world and Canadian credibility had to hit the
> skids before Liberals became embarrassed enough to even attempt to react.
> 
> I agree its a long time coming, and I wish a similar resolution passed earlier.
> It has been debated at previous conventions, but had never obtained a sponser to
> become a "priority".  I think you can credit East Timor - our willingness to act
> was hampered by our lack of resources.  Yes, the
> government did get a wake up call, but I guess its better late than never.
> 
>     I too, will be voting Canadian Alliance.
> 
> Well, I respect  that.  I disagree with it, but I respect your choice.  Any
> further debate is best held on another forum.
> 
> Dave Willard
> 
> Well thats all for now.  As an aside, I am enjoying the stories about the old
> kit/uniforms as well.  From the sound of the battle dress/bush dress
> threads, I‘m glad I only saw the current combats.  Now, if I could only get
> issued the new cam stuff before I have to release....
> 
> James Hanna
> 
> Nemo me impune lacessit
> 
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