# Question re: CWO rank insignia -



## Michael Dorosh (12 Jun 2006)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/MapleLeaf/vol_9/vol9_17/917_04.pdf

Reading through this and looking at the pictures on the army.ca site, I still have a question.

The article mentions the former CF CWO, Command CWO, and Base CWO insiginia, which Mike Bobbitt has illustrated.

It also mentions a Brigade CWO, and I've seen that badge - I believe it is a red maple leaf and crossed swords?

What does the Formation CWO badge look like, and who wears them?  LFWA, LFCA etc. CWO??? Are these "formations"?


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## Teddy Ruxpin (12 Jun 2006)

The Brigade, Base and the Area badges are now the same.  The Brigade badge (red maple leaf) will be discontinued and the three types of RSM will wear the tri-service badge beneath the Coat of Arms.  From the article:



> Consequently, it was decided that the new senior appointment insignia (SAI) would replace the one currently worn by Brigade CWO...



The confusion arises because the article uses "NDHQ speak" when describing what constitutes a formation and a "group"...  In the _Army_, 1 CMBG is a formation, ADM(Mat) is not.


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## Michael Dorosh (12 Jun 2006)

I'm still confused, was there a "formation" CWO badge separate from the Brigade CWO badge before this change?


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## larry Strong (12 Jun 2006)

Yes according to the official DND site

http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/dglepm/badges-insignia/army_rank_deu_e.htm


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## Michael Dorosh (12 Jun 2006)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> Yes according to the official DND site
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/dglepm/badges-insignia/army_rank_deu_e.htm



Now why didn't I look there...many thanks!


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## Neill McKay (13 Jun 2006)

More here: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/MapleLeaf/vol_9/vol9_17/917_04.pdf


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Jun 2006)

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> More here: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/MapleLeaf/vol_9/vol9_17/917_04.pdf



Yeah, that's the article that prompted the question in the first place. In fact, I posted the link in the very first line of this thread.


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## geo (13 Jun 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> I'm still confused, was there a "formation" CWO badge separate from the Brigade CWO badge before this change?


within an area, brigades ARE formations


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## Michael Dorosh (14 Jun 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> within an area, brigades ARE formations



Yes, but that is irrelevent to the question apparently, as there are different insignia for Brigade CWOs and Formation CWOs. Or were...


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## Neill McKay (15 Jun 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Yeah, that's the article that prompted the question in the first place. In fact, I posted the link in the very first line of this thread.



Ah -- so you did!


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## larry Strong (15 Jun 2006)

So in the old (as on the DND link) system, was the Formation the equivalent to the Bde, except that the Bde was land  field forces only?


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## George Wallace (15 Jun 2006)

I think you guys are getting too wound up on the word "Formation".  As already stated, a "Formation" can be any size.  It could be a formation on the parade square of thirty men, called a platoon.  It could be a formation in the field consisting of three Brigades, called a Division.  It could be a Corps, an Army, an Army Group, whatever.  It could be a Section, although a Section usually doesn't have a CWO in it, unless we are talking of the Base Orderly Room.


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## Michael Dorosh (15 Jun 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I think you guys are getting too wound up on the word "Formation".  As already stated, a "Formation" can be any size.  It could be a formation on the parade square of thirty men, called a platoon.  It could be a formation in the field consisting of three Brigades, called a Division.  It could be a Corps, an Army, an Army Group, whatever.  It could be a Section, although a Section usually doesn't have a CWO in it, unless we are talking of the Base Orderly Room.



A platoon is a sub unit, George, not a formation.  You're using the word in two different senses.  

A section is also a sub unit.

A formation in the sense discussed here is properly a brigade, regiment (in foreign use), division, corps, army or army group - nothing else.

A parade or tactical formation is something else entirely.


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## George Wallace (15 Jun 2006)

YES! Staff!   

Make up your mind Staff!...


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## Michael Dorosh (15 Jun 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> YES! Staff!
> 
> Make up your mind Staff!...



No idea what this means. Are you still unclear on what a formation is?


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