# TRS CADETS - WESTMOUNT, QUEBEC



## Bill Smy (26 Apr 2001)

Frederick Fisher, VC, stated on his attestation papers in Sept 1914 that he had been a member of TRS Cadets for two years. The corps would have been in Westmount or Montreal, and in existence 1910 to 1914.

Can anyone identify this corps for me?


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## Chispa (12 Aug 2015)

Bill Smy said:
			
		

> Frederick Fisher, VC, stated on his attestation papers in Sept 1914 that he had been a member of TRS Cadets for two years. The corps would have been in Westmount or Montreal, and in existence 1910 to 1914.
> 
> Can anyone identify this corps for me?




I can Help "Bud" F. Fisher VC: Lived in Toronto, for two years he was with the Toronto Public Schools Battalion, Cadet Corps.



CADET SERVICES.
70. On the 1st May, 1912, Organizers and Inspectors of Cadet Corps were appointed to each Division and District, except the 3rd Division, the appointment to this Division being filled on 1st March, 1913. Two officers were detailed to the 2nd Division; and an English speaking officer to the 4th and 5th Divisions, jointly, in addition to a French speaking officer in each of these Divisions. In December, 1912, a Director of Cadet Services on the Headquarters' Staff, Ottawa, was appointed.
71. As a result of the appointment of these officers the Cadet Services increased during the year by over 267 companies, or 11,050 cadets, and, in addition to these, 24 companies, comprising nearly 1,000 cadets, were disbanded, owing to their being inactive and dormant. This increase of 35%, or considerably over 1,000 cadets per month, since the appointment of the Organizers and Inspectors of Cadet Corps, indicates the result of their work.
72. On the 1st January, 1913, a number of cadet companies were shown, which had really ceased to exist, and it was found necessary by the Organizers and Inspectors of Cadet Corps, in the first place, to re-organize the existing ones before starting to form new ones.
73. The first cadet camps, under the auspices of the Militia Department, were held during July, 1912, and over 7,000 cadets were taken into camp. A considerable amount of useful knowledge was gained by the cadets, especially the older ones, at these camps, where they were taught rifle shooting, semaphore signalling, first aid to the injured, and the duties of camp life generally.
74. In August, 1912, by invitation of the Toronto Exhibition Authorities, cadets from all parts of the British Empire were invited to compete at the Exhibition for various prizes. England, Scotland and Ireland, and the other self-governing Dominions, each sent 14 picked cadets to represent them at Toronto. In Canada. the cadets had to be selected from the best cadet corps in each Division or District, so that the Canadian Cadet Service was not represented as a whole, but the 14 best boys were picked from one cadet corps in each Division or District. The Province of Saskatchewan sent 16 mounted cadets, with their horses, to the Exhibition, who performed a musical ride, and did all their parade work on their horses.
75. All the cadets at the Toronto Exhibition were inspected by His Royal Highness the Governor-General, on the 27th August, 1912.
76. Some changes have been made in the Cadet Services. Owing to the confusion caused by cadet officers taking the same ranks as officers of the Militia, the ranks of cadet colonels, majors, captains, lieutenants, etc., have been abolished and cadet regimental commanders, battalion commanders, company leaders, and half-company leaders have been substituted. The badges of rank have also been changed to 4 transverse bars of braid worn on the shoulder straps for a regimental commander; 3 for a battalion commander; 2 for a company leader; and 1 for a half company leader.




C.U.


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## PMedMoe (12 Aug 2015)

The OP was last active in June 2013....not to mention, the original post was made over 14 years ago....   :


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## Blackadder1916 (12 Aug 2015)

Chispa said:
			
		

> I can Help "Bud" F. Fisher VC: Lived in Toronto, for two years he was with the Toronto Public Schools Battalion, Cadet Corps.
> 
> History is not like playing horseshoes, where close enough counts, those that have done the proper leg work, have a responsibility insuring an accurate, detail account is presented. http://canadaatwarblog.wordpress.com/



Besides what may be a record breaking necropost, are you sure that you provided "an accurate, detail (sic) account" when you provided the above response about Fisher having lived in Toronto.  When was this?  Do you have a reference?  If so then it is at odds with the (seemingly well researched and presented) study by William Arthur Smy, LCol (ret'd) (a pdf file) that he published in 2010.  As Col Smy does not mention Fisher having lived in Toronto for two years, nor in the chronology of his short life are there any unexplained gaps, WTF are you talking about?


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## Chispa (12 Aug 2015)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Besides what may be a record breaking necropost, are you sure that you provided "an accurate, detail (sic) account" when you provided the above response about Fisher having lived in Toronto.  When was this?  Do you have a reference?  If so then it is at odds with the (seemingly well researched and presented) study by William Arthur Smy, LCol (ret'd) (a pdf file) that he published in 2010.  As Col Smy does not mention Fisher having lived in Toronto for two years, nor in the chronology of his short life are there any unexplained gaps, WTF are you talking about?




Hi kind of harsh and typical: Subject: Re: TRS CADETS - WESTMOUNT, QUEBEC
Link: http://forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/4283/post-1382606.html#msg1382606
Amount: -300 MilPoints Notes: WTF are talking about.

I was just adding M&D submitted report on the Cadet Corp, Service, for 1912

About Frederick Fisher, VC
Lance-Corporal Fisher was born in St. Catherines, Ontario on 3 August 1895. He served two years in the Toronto Public Schools Battalion, Cadet Corps. At the outbreak of war he was a student and enlisted in the 5th Regiment (Royal Highlanders of Canada) on 13 August 1914. He went overseas with the 13th Battalion (Royal Highlanders of Canada) in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. He was promoted to the rank of Lance-Corporal on 22 December 1914.

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/battles/second-ypres-1915/gravenstafel-ridge/fisher-vc-action.htm


Fred Fisher, VC
Of the three Canadians who won the Victoria Cross in the Second Battle of Ypres, two were from McGill. The second was Lance-Corporal Fred Fisher (Applied Science, 1912-'14), 13th Battalion, C.E.F., Royal Highlanders of Canada.

http://mcgillremembers.mcgill.ca/ww1/stories/fredfisher.html


Yes stuff in books are in question, as they typically paint with a wide brush and drop the ball.


Notice he wore his hackle on the right side of the Glengarry, and certainly forbidden in the CDN and Scot BW.


Fred Fisher

Fred Fisher was born in St. Catharine’s, Ontario on 3 August 1895. His family moved to Montreal, Quebec about 1907, where Fisher was studying Applied Science at McGill University when the First World War began.

He was 19 when he joined CEF FC some say 20 years old moved to Montreal ca 1907 when he was 12-13.

 http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/gal/vcg-gcv/bio/fisher-f-eng.asp



The painting ( F “Bud” Fisher VC) “Of the altered negative and picture,” which was commissioned by the soldier’s family, was executed by noted Canadian painter George Horne Russell and was presented to Westmount High School, Fisher’s Alma Mater, by his mother.

http://www.blackwatchcanada.com/en/heritage-and-history/museum-and-archives



CU


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## Chispa (8 Sep 2015)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Besides what may be a record breaking necropost, are you sure that you provided "an accurate, detail (sic) account" when you provided the above response about Fisher having lived in Toronto.  When was this?  Do you have a reference?  If so then it is at odds with the (seemingly well researched and presented) study by William Arthur Smy, LCol (ret'd) (a pdf file) that he published in 2010.  As Col Smy does not mention Fisher having lived in Toronto for two years, nor in the chronology of his short life are there any unexplained gaps, WTF are you talking about?





After conducting a comprehensive search TRS Cadets, the abbreviation only applies to one cadet corps in Ontario and Que; no TOS Cadets was found.

In Fred “Bud” Fisher VC attestation paper he writes "2 yrs., TOS Cadets," while in the Nominal Roll for next of kin they mixed up the address, providing a Toronto location, and former corps TRS Cadets. He moved to Montreal in 1905, or ca 07, however only appears in the Westmount Academy year book from 1909-1912: From Montreal, Three Rivers, by train in those days like ½ or ¾ hour to get there.


#169 Cadet Corps
Three Rivers Seminary Cadet Battalion
Location Three Rivers Que
Formed pre 1907 Disbanded unknown


http://www.armycadethistory.com/Cadet%20Corps%20DB/cadet_corps_database_1to100.htm


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## Blackadder1916 (8 Sep 2015)

Chispa said:
			
		

> . . . he writes "2 yrs., TOS Cadets," . . .



TRS? . . . TPS? . . . TOS?

Obviously the notation in Fisher's hand on his attestation paper is unclear, despite his reasonably good penmanship (_oh, if only they would still teach and stress handwriting to youngsters_).  Col Smy thought it was an "R"; you think it could be an "O"; I think it a "P" _(I discount it as "O" because the letter as written is different from the example he provided when he wrote his province of birth - Ontario)_.

On that basis, a possible candidate for his cadet corps may be "The Plessis School".  The institution is now closed, but it was in Montreal on Rue Plessis, the original building is still there and though it is not within the confines of the village of Westmount, it is just over three and a half miles away from the home address that Fisher provided back in 1914.  There was a cadet corps associated with "The Plessis School" using that title (including the definitive article) and is so identified in an 1913 army list.


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## Chispa (8 Sep 2015)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> TRS? . . . TPS? . . . TOS?
> 
> Obviously the notation in Fisher's hand on his attestation paper is unclear, despite his reasonably good penmanship (_oh, if only they would still teach and stress handwriting to youngsters_).  Col Smy thought it was an "R"; you think it could be an "O"; I think it a "P" _(I discount it as "O" because the letter as written is different from the example he provided when he wrote his province of birth - Ontario)_.



True could be TRS or TOS, about the 'O' being a P that's plausible, his hand writing is wow, per say, the T looks like a cap D without the I, while he pokes the O on the middle left side, looks like he was left handed? Say Col. Smy thought it was an R, well in the Jan 1915 13th Inf., Batt., nominal roll it says, for former Corps, TRS Cadets, however they drop the ball on his Father’s, next-of-kin address inserting Toronto. 



> On that basis, a possible candidate for his cadet corps may be "The Plessis School".  The institution is now closed, but it was in Montreal on Rue Plessis, the original building is still there and though it is not within the confines of the village of Westmount, it is just over three and a half miles away from the home address that Fisher provided back in 1914.  There was a cadet corps associated with "The Plessis School" using that title (including the definitive article) and is so identified in an 1913 army list.



That last link U inserted is not working, however no big deal.

I know “Plessis School” had cadets in 1961 at Montreal raised by that name, however let’s explore that T and P. Montreal, 1535-1914:  Plessis Street School, 383 Plessis Street renumbered (505), founded in 1878 and was entrusted to the Brothers of the Christian School. Just styled as “Plessis School” See Link. http://www.mocavo.com/Montreal-1535-1914-Volume-2-2/383911/431

No T=The; in Plessis Street School or Plessis School.


C.U.


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## Blackadder1916 (9 Sep 2015)

Chispa said:
			
		

> That last link U inserted is not working . . .



The link works for me.  If you can't connect, I've attached the applicable page.


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## Blackadder1916 (9 Sep 2015)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> . . .
> 
> On that basis, a possible candidate for his cadet corps may be "The Plessis School".   . . .



After another scan through the same publication I've found another cadet corps that meets similar criteria as that I applied in identifying the above.  "The Plateau School" also had a cadet corps and was located (if it was in the same vicinity as the current L'Ecole Plateau) about the same distance away from Fisher's home.  In fact, both schools were relatively close to each other.


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## Chispa (9 Sep 2015)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> After another scan through the same publication I've found another cadet corps that meets similar criteria as that I applied in identifying the above.  "The Plateau School" also had a cadet corps and was located (if it was in the same vicinity as the current L'Ecole Plateau) about the same distance away from Fisher's home.  In fact, both schools were relatively close to each other.





Hi, thanks for painting a clear portrait, it worked even downloaded a copy, I’ll check it out, into all this Prime source stuff.

Interesting observations, see the T = The, was added too Schools, that would abbreviate TPSB Cadets, say it was just TPS, organized 16th Dec 08. While The Plateau School Battalion was organized 25th Nov.1908.

Just a personal observation: He only appears in the Westmount Academy 1909 yearbook till 1912, would be questionable having served two years in that School’s, (Plessis), (Plateau), cadet corps.

I contacted the Principles secretary at Westmount High School last week, confirmed they have the year books, etc., on “Bud” Fisher. The school year just started, all that stuff is stored, by next month with appointment will be viewing, etc. Would like to know what year and date he first set foot in Westmount Academy, and if they have his registration papers etc., will provide allot of info.

Some Seminary Schools, were boarding schools? 

I looked at the O in Ontario again, previously noticed the difference, TOS Cadets, still looks like an O even if my dyslexia is kicking in, however with that hand writing anything is plausible.

Remember some claim he served in a Toronto Public Schools Battalion, Cadet Corps, and the T is for Toronto, you have the P, = TPS Cadets, Lol.


I Just extracted from the book:

VCs of the First World War 1915 The Western Front 1915 by Peter F Batchelor, Christopher Matson.

Frederick Fisher was born at Church Street, St Catharine , Ontario on 3 August 1894. He had two older brothers, Don and William and an elder sister, Alice, and in 1900 the family moved to Niagara-on-the-Lake where his father was manager of the Sovereign Bank. Frederick commenced his schooling at the Niagara Public School until the Fisher family moved again, in 1904, to Dunnville, where they stayed until about 1907 before moving to Montreal. Here Fisher attended Wesmount Academy where a Life-Sized coloured photograph of him hangs in the rebuilt Westmount High School. In the Wesmount Academy yearbook of 1909 ‘Bud” Fisher was described as “hard as nails” on the football team.

In 1912 Fisher enrolled at McGill University to Study Applied Science (Engineering) and he was still a student when war broke out. He was academically capable and a keen sportsman, being a member of the 1914 championship track team as well as the Montreal Amateur athletics Association…………….

Fishers VC was sent by the War Office on August 5th  1915 to his parent at 576 Lansdown Road, Westmount, Canada, and on April 25 1916 a ceremony was held in the McGill Union when the picture of  L/Cpl Frederick Fisher VC was unveiled. His Parents and sister were present and his mother proudly wore her son’s VC. On the same day the McGill Annual was published, and was dedicated to Fisher, the first Canadian to win the Victoria Cross in the First World War and the first of three to be awarded to the 13th Bn CEF.

A memorial table was unveiled at the Royal Highland of Canada armouries, Bleury Street, Montreal, on 1 May 1917 and on 12 June in the same year a memorial service was held at the Church of  St James the Apostle…… Fishers VC remained with the family until the death of his mother in 1946 when his sister, Alice, presented it to the Royal Highland Regiment of Canada.


C.U.


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## Michael OLeary (9 Sep 2015)

Go to Fisher's record in the Library and Archives Canada Soldier of the First World War Database:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=388420

Download his service record:

http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=3105-29

Look at the version of the attestation paper on page 12 of his 27-page service record.

It reads "T.R.S. Cadet Corps"


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## Chispa (10 Sep 2015)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Go to Fisher's record in the Library and Archives Canada Soldier of the First World War Database:
> 
> https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=388420
> 
> ...





Hi good stuff, thanks, was looking for the SR, just like the Jan 1915 Nominal Roll T.R.S. Cadets Corps.


I was adding the bellow last night, however late night emergency call.

To be Noted:
No. 93.
DUNNVILLE HIGH SCHOOL,
2nd Divisional Area.
(Organised 1 Feb 1903.)



Fred was born Aug. 3rd 1894, in 1900 (by Aug 3rd 1900, 6 years old) the family moved to Niagara-on-the-Lake, attended Niagara Public School. Fisher family moved again, in 1904, to Dunnville, (10 years old) and ca 1907 moved to Montreal, (Fred was 12 years old by Aug 07). When he was 17 years old, in 1912 Fisher enrolled at McGill University to Study Applied Science (Engineering).


In Lieut.-Col. W.A. Smy, Sketch of Fred “Bud” Fisher, VC:

In October 1905, (Fred was 11 years old), the bank transferred his father to Montreal. There, Fisher completed his secondary school education at Westmount Academy (now Westmount High School) in 1912.6 Source: 6. Catherine Creed. “Whose Debtors We Are”, in Niagara Historical Society, 34, 1922. The Times, 14 October 1904, 17 November 1905. Library and Archives Canada. RG 150, Ministry of the Overseas Military Forces of Canada. Accession 1992-93/166, Box 3105-29, Fred Fisher. Their address in 1907 was 576 Lansdowne Avenue, Montreal. His parents were living at 1004 Dorchester Street, Montreal, in 1915 when Fisher was killed in action.

Col. Smy states: Fishers father was transferred to Montreal and provides a 1907 Prime source; their address from post Oct. 1905- pre 07? One would presume Westmount same school district, typically sent your kinds too Westmount Academy, Kings, Queens or Roslyn, basically closest school from your house.

The Col.: The Academy Bulletin, the school yearbook, reported: 
“Captain – Hard as nails. Has all requirements of a good football player. Good man with ball. Hard to stop. Sure tackle and very fast. Exceedingly fast in following up kicks. Better at outside wing than half. In games played handled team with cool head and good judgement. Played left half, Juniors, 1908; outside on Intermediates 1909-1910. Played best game at outside wing with Hunt Gordon on Art Pat’s championship team in 1909.” 7  Source 7. The Academy Bulletin (Westmount Academy, 1912), p 31.

That would put Fred at Westmount Academy in 1908 school season, and they had no cadet corps.



TRS Cadet Corps.

No. 6.
"THREE RIVERS SEMINARY CADET BATTALION."
4th Divisional Area.
(Organized 16 Jan 80.)
Head-Quarters—Three Rivers, Que.
Four Companies. 



c.u.


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## Michael OLeary (10 Sep 2015)

Chispa said:
			
		

> Hi good stuff, thanks, was looking for the SR,



Service records for VC recipients have been available for download from Library and Archives Canada for a few years.


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## Chispa (10 Sep 2015)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Service records for VC recipients have been available for download from Library and Archives Canada for a few years.



Hi yes I know, on my files, old backup-discks I have, just looked quickly.


The Fisher's moved from Montreal, Westmount for over a year.

Montreal Directory for 1905-06.
W.H. Fisher does not appear.

Montreal Directory for 1906-07. page 993
Fisher, W.H., bank clerk, 4628 St. Catherine Westmount.

1907-08, same as above.

1908-09, does not appear, moved.

1909-10. 
Fisher, W.H., with Dominion Mercantile Protective Assn.. 576 Lansdowne av Westmount.

1910-11. Same as above.


http://stevemorse.org/montreal/montreal2.html


C.U.


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