# Incindental Expense Allowance [Merged]



## PtePwnage (3 Oct 2007)

Hello there,

I am quite new to the military pay system, and I was wondering if someone could clarify for me what incidental pay is? The admin people I have spoken have not really been able to elaborate. I just came off a two-month course and I was told I could submit my claim, and I would receive some form of monetary reward? I was told to gather all my receipts, and that I would be given my claim as a normal direct deposit. It's been approximately 6 weeks since I submitted this "claim", and I have not received word or money of any kind? Could someone clarify for me, if a claim and incidentals pay is not actual money, then what is it?


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## Inch (3 Oct 2007)

Did you sign the completed claim? If not then the claim cannot be finalized, ie no money for you. I would go the Orderly Room and check on it's status. If I don't have my money from a claim in 2-3 weeks, I start asking questions.

Incidentals are 17 some dollars per day, it's meant to offset the minor expenses you incur while on Temporary Duty (TD), things like tips at the restaurant, parking meters, basically, any minor expense that you incur that's not covered by the meal claim or receipts from taxis, hotels, rental cars, etc.

For the RMS clerks out there, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


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## 00334 (3 Oct 2007)

It is money that you've spent on extra's and money that you receive when you're away from home to cover those extras.  I believe it is 17 something for the first month and 13 something for every day after that.  Don't worry about waiting 6 weeks for it to arrive.  Mine took 4 months to arrive.  It'll arrive eventually; you just need to be patient.  I would suggest checking with your OR if you haven't done so and see what's happening with your claim.  Don't harass them too much and try to be friendly or your pay checks might start disappearing. ;D


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## aesop081 (3 Oct 2007)

Once my claims are finalized and i have gone back to sign them ( stupid new system...i used to sign them in advance) i always get my money deposited directly within 7-10 buisness days.  if you have waited longer than that , go to your OR because something IS wrong.


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## Inch (3 Oct 2007)

4 months? I take it you're a reservist. I have never had a claim take longer than 4 weeks unless it was because I didn't sign the finalized claim due to leave or deployment. As CDN Aviator states, once you sign your finalized claim, it's 7-10 business days until you get your money and very rarely longer.


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## NCRCrow (3 Oct 2007)

especially if you are on TD and you use AMEX, I wouldn't be waiting more than two weeks to pay off my card


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## 00334 (3 Oct 2007)

Yeah I'm a reservist. It's long story.


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## PtePwnage (3 Oct 2007)

So am I correct in assuming the general consensus is that the process takes longer if you're a reservist? That would be my case. Does it really make a difference?


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## lizbobiz79 (3 Oct 2007)

Claims shouldn't take any longer because you are a reservist. Both the reg force and res force use the same program (Claims X). There's no harm at all in going in to your OR and asking the status of your claim. The clerk should be able to easily find out where your claim is and give you an estimate of how much longer it will take to receive the money. If you (or anyone reading this thread) is interested in the process of a claim, here it is....

So, Pte Bloggins has a course to go on and his clerk does up a claim, the clerk sends it to be approved. It's approved and Pte Bloggins goes on course. Pte Bloggins comes back from course and sumbits an itinerary of his travel to and from wherever his course was AND receipts (hotel, parking, etc). The clerk finalizes Pte Bloggins claim and sends the claim to be approved again. After this, the claim is sent to the cashier and the cashier pays out or recovers the difference depending on the claim. If there is a "pay out", this deposited directly into Pte Bloggins account within 7-10 business days. Keep in mind that claim money is NOT the same as your paycheck, it can show up in your bank account at anytime. Claims and Pay are two totally different things.


The current incidental rate is $17.30/day for the first thirty days you are away and after that it's $13.00/day.

Hope this wasn't too much info, if you have any questions, fire away.


Your friendly neighbourhood clerk!


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## Roy Harding (3 Oct 2007)

I can see that the processing of claims MAY take longer in the Reserve world.  If a claims turnaround time (just for the sake of argument) is two days to process and get ready for the members signature - that translates to two days in the Reg force - but for a Reservist Clerk who works one and a half days per week, that translates to two WEEKS for the member - and the remainder of the processing can be affected similarly.  Once it's finalized and sent to the cashier, then the 7 - 10 days time frame kicks in.

For the original poster:  check with your Orderly Room - it does sound like something may have delayed the processing - could be something as simple as someone forgot to give you a message to come in and sign it.  Just ask.


Roy


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## navychick77 (4 Oct 2007)

It could be that your banking info was not entered into the new web based claims X system correctly as this info fm the old system to the new one was not directly transfered over when the new system started up. If this is the case then your payment may take a bit before it's rejected back to the cashier and for them to notify your OR of the rejection.  It does usually take anywhere fm 7-10 banking days for claims to be deposited into accnt's DFT, but I wouldn't wait too long before you contact your OR of the fact that your claim has not been paid out.  Did you get any advances on your claim? If so then I would make certain the claim was finalized so no recovery action is taken against your pay. 

Cheers 

Charlie


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

navychick77 said:
			
		

> Did you get any advances on your claim? If so then I would make certain the claim was finalized so no recovery action is taken against your pay.



if he has been waiting 4 months, i'm sure recovery action would already have been taken (if warranted).  I know that when i get my TD claims, the recovery date stamped on them in not that far away


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## geo (4 Oct 2007)

Let's face it, when the sumemr courses are over, you have some 60+ guys & gals showing up at the orderly room at the same time.  They are all looking to file their claims & get their money NOW!  Remember that many "day staff" are now being employed teaching or runing rank & trade courses - so the minute the courses & concentrations are over... the instructors are going on leave.

1.  August is a favorite for "block leave"
2.  It takes time to process 60+ claims - even if you are working full time.  If you are working part time, it takes even longer.
3.  Make sure that you have all your documents and receipts gathered together and in a logical order.  Don't make the Fin clerk go looking for you cause.... he/she won't... yuour claim will go to the bottom of the pile.
4.  Patience!


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## navychick77 (4 Oct 2007)

The orig mbr actually mentioned they had not gotten their TD claim paid out in some six weeks and not four months, as I have actually seen it happen in the past recovery action is not always immediate. I was merely inquiring if the mbr had rcvd and advance. If there was none taken then again as I have seen in the past in other OR's I have seen it take upwards of four months as there may have been something either missing fm the mbr's claim or it just kept getting pushed to the bottom of the pile as there were other claims that needed to be processed sooner. If no advance is taken on a TD claim then it does not actually need to be settled for upwards of six months.


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## PO2FinClk (4 Oct 2007)

navychick77 said:
			
		

> If no advance is taken on a TD claim then it does not actually need to be settled for upwards of six months.


Negative, FAM 1016-10 Para 12


> 12.	To ensure that the reimbursement is processed quickly, all expense claims must be submitted (preferably through the Automated Cashier System (Claims X)), no later than 10 working days after the completion of travel or the date of the event.  *Furthermore, units and organizations must have in place an effective expense claim processing system to effect reimbursement of completed expense claims by electronic payments or cheques within 5 working days of submission.*


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Oct 2007)

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> Negative, FAM 1016-10 Para 12


PO2FinClk,

I'm (and the other Mods) are glad you're around. We can always count on you to finally step in and ground the thread with the actual 'section and verse'. BZ to you.


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## armyvern (4 Oct 2007)

navychick77 said:
			
		

> The orig mbr actually mentioned they had not gotten their TD claim paid out in some six weeks and not four months, as I have actually seen it happen in the past recovery action is not always immediate. I was merely inquiring if the mbr had rcvd and advance. If there was none taken then again as I have seen in the past in other OR's I have seen it take upwards of four months as there may have been something either missing fm the mbr's claim or it just kept getting pushed to the bottom of the pile as there were other claims that needed to be processed sooner. If no advance is taken on a TD claim then it does not actually need to be settled for upwards of six months.



You do realize, in layman's terms, what you have just said above correct??

To paraphrase:  If we didn't give you any money via advance to pay for your necessary and entitled expenses with -- and you covered all the costs out of your own pocket -- we will push your claim and request for your entitled reimbursment to the bottom of the pile when we are "too busy" making sure the other guy on your course who took a thousand bucks from us and only spent 100 out of his pocket gets that 100 bucks back. He's the priority.

Wow. Glad my Chief Clerk didn't run my Det Orderly Room like that!! I can only imagine the PER she would have gotten from me had that been the case ... 

I'm baffled.


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## Nfld Sapper (4 Oct 2007)

Well I'm still waiting for my claim to come through. Then again it had to be rewritten cause of my tasking after course, also we got a whole new crew in the OR so that might have something to do with it.


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## PtePwnage (4 Oct 2007)

I did indeed receive an advance this summer, $300 to be exact, and I got all the associated paperwork. Upon my return, I promptly gave in everything that was required, and my clerk went through the paperwork with me. Perhaps I might have forgotten a signature somwhere. In any case, my training night is tonight, and I will go ask the clerk working in the OR if there is any problems with my claim.


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## Roy Harding (4 Oct 2007)

PtePwnage said:
			
		

> ... my training night is tonight, and I will go ask the clerk working in the OR if there is any problems with my claim.



Perfect - go to the source, it's probably something simple.

Roy


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## Roy Harding (4 Oct 2007)

recceguy said:
			
		

> PO2FinClk,
> 
> I'm (and the other Mods) are glad you're around. We can always count on you to finally step in and ground the thread with the actual 'section and verse'. BZ to you.



Absolutely.  ESPECIALLY retired RMS Clks like me who sometimes like to think we know what we're talking about - only to be reminded that we're out of date!!  I always appreciate PO2FinClk's corrections when I stray out of my lane (even though I still THINK it's my lane!!)


Roy


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

navychick77 said:
			
		

> If no advance is taken on a TD claim then it does not actually need to be settled for upwards of six months.



My TD claims are usualy worth  US$ 1500 or more so if, for some reason, i was rich enough to go without an advance, i would seriously have issue with an OR that took 6 months to get me my money.......

Lucky for me, my OR is on the ball


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## Inch (4 Oct 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> My TD claims are usualy worth  US$ 1500 or more so if, for some reason, i was rich enough to go without an advance, i would seriously have issue with an OR that took 6 months to get me my money.......
> 
> Lucky for me, my OR is on the ball



Amen to that, my SOR is the same. I had my money from an extended trip to Ottawa in less than 2 weeks, freezing rain kept us there for 4 nights longer than we planned, it was in the $1500 range as well. I would be torqued if they didn't get it processed quickly. It's not like it's pay, it's _reimbursement_ for expenses you've already paid on your own dime.


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## armyvern (4 Oct 2007)

Ergo the reason that I am absolutely baffled that this would be regarded as ACCEPTABLE anywhere, in any OR, in any environment, in either the RegF or the ResF.

Action them as you get them. It's just that simple. Oooops, buddy didn't show up in the OR until 16 hours before his advance was due to be recovered so other people who actually did what they are supposed to get bumped?? Who's fault is that?? It's buddies fault. Put his claim exactly where it should be, right underneath those ones you've already got to action and action it when it makes it's way to the top of the pile. If that happens to be after recovery action is taken ... so be friggin' it -- I'd be adressing that little fact with his supervisor. I guarantee he'll not make the same mistake again. I hate babysitters, the CF is supposed to be comprised of adults last time I checked.

It's baffling that those who do the proper thing, get bumped. That's not acceptable.


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## NCRCrow (4 Oct 2007)

My previous unit and my new unit , do not give us claim advances as were are supposed to have that stupid AMEX card. I hate having the card as it seems one more thing to worry about. 

I like cash advances but I just follow policy.


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## Petard (4 Oct 2007)

It doesn't matter if you're reg or reserve
How's about 2 months+ for a return?
That's how long it took for my claim for travel to KAF to be finalized
..and that's with buggin' Gagetown MPSS weekly a month after I got back (not Gagetown's fault BTW, the claim was idling in KAF).
I understand it is one helluva load for the clerks there, and in the middle of a rotation to boot, but that's ridiculous
Sometimes there's no accounting for other peoples actions (or in-actions for that matter)


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> My previous unit and my new unit , do not give us claim advances as were are supposed to have that stupid AMEX card. I hate having the card as it seems one more thing to worry about.
> 
> I like cash advances but I just follow policy.



Local policy for sure.......

I have AMEX as well but unless its a last minute trip, i dont leave without an advance.


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## George Wallace (4 Oct 2007)

OK

Time to wade in.

All members of the Reg and Res Force must now have a DWAN account.  They must have access to Outlook on the DIN, as soon as possible after they are 'enlisted'.

For you who have not yet been introduced to CLAIMS - X.......wait for it.

All members of the CF are now expected to do their own claims by using ClaimsX.  Prior to departure the member is responsible to fill out their itinerary, accommodations and rations, advances, etc.  They will then submit their 'draft' claim (Claim in progress) electronically to their authorizing authority (Usually their Unit Fin Clerk) and then PRINT it.   This printout is taken to the OR for an authorizing signature and then is used as the "Route Letter".   On their return, the member will call up their claim in progress and complete it.   They will once again print it, and attach all their receipts to it.  They submit it again electronically, and bring in the 'Finished' Claim that they printed to the OR, replacing the first page with the first page of their draft claim/Route Letter which has the authorizing signatures.   

If there is a problem with your Direct Deposit, as was mentioned in a previous post, the member will receive an email from Ottawa requesting Banking information to be Faxed to them.  In my case, my Fin Clerk had kept the samples of our VOID cheques on record and it was a simple matter of faxing a copy off to the number provided in the email.

The Direct Deposit does not take very long and is usually in you bank account in less than 12 days.  

Any prolonged delays in Claims today are not usually the result of the System, but of the member not submitting the required documentation.



For those who have yet to be introduced to ClaimsX, your day is coming soon.  It can be a very frustrating procedure when you first get into it, but in the end, it greatly speeds up the process.  When you first load it on your computer, logoff before you try to use it or you will get error messages and be tempted to throw your monitor out a window, over a cubicle or off a bridge.  Make sure you have all your Banking info ready when you first logon, and be prepared to have to Fax it off to Ottawa.  Once you are set, you can go in and review all your claims over the years.

Because of processes like ClaimsX and Security Clearances, all members of the CF must now have a DWAN account as soon as they join.


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> All members of the CF are now expected to do their own claims by using ClaimsX.




You could not be further from the truth George.  I certainly do not do my own claims, the SOR does that.  When its ready for pickup, they email me. The only thing ClaimsX has changed for me is that now, i have to go back to the OR when the staff there are done finalizing my claim and sign it before i can get my money.  I used to just sign it when i brought it back saving everyone a visit to the OR


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## George Wallace (4 Oct 2007)

As I said........"Wait for it!"

You will soon be doing everything yourself, except the signatures.


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As I said........"Wait for it!"
> 
> You will soon be doing everything yourself, except the signatures.



Been dealing with ClaimsX for months.......


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## George Wallace (4 Oct 2007)

If you have, then you have some of the 'nicest' Clerks in the CF or one's who really don't trust you to know how to fill in blank forms.

I don't mind having a Clerk do it all for me..........I'm not a Clerk, but times are changing, and now I can control my own Claims........next my Pay!   >


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If you have, then you have some of the 'nicest' Clerks in the CF or one's who really don't trust you to know how to fill in blank forms.



George, i think i work in differing circumstances.  I dont go on TD twice a year...more like twice a month. The crew lists change right up to the day before deployement and sometimes during the night before. Whe we need a part on the other side of the planet, the poor private technician who has to fly comercial to bring them gets to have his claim and bookings done by the duty clerk. Yes, i do have some of the best clerks available. Heck, i already have my claim for next week and my advance is already DFT'ed !!



> next my Pay!   >



Now that is crazy talk


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## Petard (4 Oct 2007)

Actually George for a lot of units there is no other way to make it work other than to leave the task in the OR. If you have regular access to your DWAN account, fine, but if not (for example someone returning from leave and going straight to the field or other task), then how else could it get done in a timely way?
All I'm getting at is that people need to be prepared for possible delays, but if they see them happening to not let it drift.


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## armyvern (4 Oct 2007)

No ClaimsX at my last location in the Orderly Room ... although they did try to push it out to us.

But, with the head cashier being in a different province (thus one would need an entire claim all by itself just to go turn in the claim to get an advance on the advance for the advance!!), they eventually agreed that the best and most efficient system for us and the personnel we support would be to allow us to continue with our standing advance kept in civie bank account. We then draft the cheques off that account.


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## NCRCrow (4 Oct 2007)

don't they push the AMEX card on you for advances! I haven't had an advance on a claim in 5 yrs.


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> don't they push the AMEX card on you for advances! I haven't had an advance on a claim in 5 yrs.



Nope.....my AMEX is there for those trips where i make an unplanned landing away from home or very last minute trips where theres just no time to have claims made and advances drawn.  The rest of the time i get a cash advance (for US funds) or DFT


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## NCRCrow (4 Oct 2007)

I envy you, I would like to cut the card up. 

I wonder if there is a National Policy on this, or just units SOP's?


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> I wonder if there is a National Policy on this, or just units SOP's?



PO2finclerk can hopefully shed some light on that for you next time hes around. I suspect your situation is a unit SOP.


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## Inch (4 Oct 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> PO2finclerk can hopefully shed some light on that for you next time hes around. I suspect your situation is a unit SOP.



Corporate VISAs are the answer for those of us in MH. All aircraft captains have had to do an expenditure management course since the new thing for us will be a Visa issued to the AC to pay for fuel, rental cars, lodgings for the crew, etc. The only thing people will be paying for will be meals, pretty much everything else goes on the Visa and it's billed to the Sqn.


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## aesop081 (4 Oct 2007)

Inch said:
			
		

> Corporate VISAs are the answer for those of us in MH. All aircraft captains have had to do an expenditure management course since the new thing for us will be a Visa issued to the AC to pay for fuel, rental cars, lodgings for the crew, etc. The only thing people will be paying for will be meals, pretty much everything else goes on the Visa and it's billed to the Sqn.



Yeah , we have corporate AMEX for rental cars, hotels and stuff like that.  Usualy for fuel we have the contract cards in the AMRS book but the corporate AMEX can be used for that too.


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## armyvern (4 Oct 2007)

I use my AMEX for TDs to Ottawa etc for briefings/WGs/Conferences.

Trips here and there between Gage/PEI/Halifax/Moncton ... claim or MTEC, dependant upon where I'm off to and for how long.


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## PO2FinClk (5 Oct 2007)

Vern, I can only venture to guess that she did not properly convey her message through written format. Also know that not so long ago if a person had not finalized your claim within 14 days of your return, I gladly recovered those funds because they had been clearly advised of the time requisite, all they had to do is submit their claim within 2 weeks. However these days, although the books still read that recovery is to occur within 14 days, the kinder gentler military does not condone it. Rather we are now expected to them emails reminding them, granting them additional time, calling them etc etc All this time wasted chasing someone down when a quick recovery solved the issue. Not to mention that once they had the monies recovered once, oddly enough those folks were never late with their claims after. But I reminisce in the good ol’ Fin Clk days.

Recceguy & Roy, the vast amounts of information these days and in the way it is all disseminated truly hinders anyone’s ability to know the _RMS_ field in great depth and exactitude. Only through the sharing of our knowledge can we hope to present accurate and timely advice. I too welcome your input which allows me to broaden my field.



			
				Nfld Sapper said:
			
		

> also we got a whole new crew in the OR so that might have something to do with it.


Also consider that ClaimsX Web is a new application just recently launched with Clerks all but left to themselves to figure out. Those combined can be conducive to longer wait times.

The intial intent with the advent of ClaimsX was for members/claimants to raise their own claim prior to sending to be Section 32’d, and upon return to complete the claim prior to sending for Section 34. That was (and based on George’s post still is) the intent behind ClaimsX, however that has simply not been the practice in area I have ever seen or heard of. The primary duty remains with the clerk with the exception of some Executive/Admin Assistants to the upper echelons for the most part. But, before the complete devolution of this occurs, much work remains to be done on the ClaimsX Web to ensure it is “fool proof” (or realistically as much as possible) as without it wall fall back to the clerks.



			
				HFXCrow said:
			
		

> I wonder if there is a National Policy on this, or just units SOP's?


In fact, yes it is National Policy and not a unit SOP (sorry Aviator) The intent (one of them anyways) for the AMEX DTC (not to be confused with the GTC which you may also have Aviator) was to allow individuals the flexibility to travel without the requirement for any advances. The end goal being to reduce the amount of advances which in turn severely affect a Cashier’s WCF, reducing its capability by tying up excessively large sums in Cash Vouchers. Bean counter talk aside – advances were and still are a very large liability for the CF. Through the use of the AMEX DTC (ITC was its predecessor) advances would no longer be issued reducing the liability not to mention reducing costs is some aspects – such as insurance on Rental Vehicle covered by AMEX.

The long and short of it is that pers who hold and AMEX DTC are not supposed to be issued advances unless it is for the purpose of paying off their bill due to a claim not being finalized in due time. FAM 1016-7-3 Para 30 refers.

To get back on the initial topic, as many have mentioned contact your OR (or whomever you submitted your claim to) to see if anything was missing. If not then they can query through the chain as to the status of claim. However individual circumstances by ASU’s/CFB’s, Wing’s etc can also curtail the length of time your claim takes to be finalized. Despite any references which can be quoted, some bases across Canada are as far as 6 weeks (some more) in the finalization of claims. Many reasons exist for these delays but I however do not agree that it be deemed acceptable. Ignorance is no excuse, the same applies to professional incompetence (harsh maybe but justified based on what I have witnessed in recent years).

Now that I am getting carpal tunnel, I think it is time for my morning coffee. Hoping this has helped any.


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## aesop081 (5 Oct 2007)

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> (sorry Aviator)



I'm just glad you came along and explained the process. What happens at my unit is how i described .


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## TN2IC (5 Oct 2007)

That was a very helpful/ useful topic. I am currently on a road trip right now. And us truckers live by the AMEX card. Just as long as you submit your paper work after you fine. It is pretty helpful for those last mintue details. ie... This one.  ;D


Wow.. c'est Quebec!
au revoir!

 ;D


I have a village to pillage!
Arr... he har...


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## NCRCrow (5 Oct 2007)

PO2FinCLk:
Thanks for the answer on the AMEX and the National Policy. Now I can quit whining. But for the record I dont like it!

When I flew with TAL a couple of years back, the Navigator held all the cash for meals and paid for everything else! Awesome system! It seems similar to the LRP way that CDNAviator described.


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## aesop081 (5 Oct 2007)

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> When I flew with TAL a couple of years back, the Navigator held all the cash for meals and paid for everything else! Awesome system! It seems similar to the LRP way that CDNAviator described.



TAL used the bulk Claim concept.  Meaning there were no individual claims for TD.  The nav drew a large amount of cash and gave you your TD entitlement.  The poor guy woud have to account for all this himself, paperwork and all.

We dont dont do that. Crew memebers take care of their own TD claims and get their own money.  The crew commander has the corporate AMEX and pays the Hotel and car rental bills only.


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## PO2FinClk (5 Oct 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The crew commander has the corporate AMEX and pays the Hotel and car rental bills only.


Just FYI for all, the GTC (Group Travel Card) I mentioned is also referred to as the Corporate AMEX.


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## NCRCrow (5 Oct 2007)

I remember the Enroute days, but it was an option back then


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## Lumber (5 Dec 2017)

When we go away on course, or an exercise, everyone gets Incidental Expense for the entire time they are away. Claims-X automatically applies it, and I've seen it given across the board.

However, chapter 7 and 8 of the CFTDTIs start with the same requirementes for application:



> 7.01 — APPLICATION
> 
> this chapter applies to a member who:
> (a) is on TD or on an attached posting;
> ...



The key here is "between". Once you arrive at the "other" duty location, you are no longer travelling "between" locations, and therefore, Chapter 7, and the benefits contained therein, no longer apply to you.

Since incidentals are a sub-paragraph of chapter 7 (and 8), it would then follow that you would no longer be entitled to the incidental expense allowance.

So, why does everyone I've ever seen go on a tasking or training course earning Incidental Expense Allowance when they were required to stay in accommodations? It doesn't seem to follow the official reference.


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## Pusser (6 Dec 2017)

Lumber said:
			
		

> When we go away on course, or an exercise, everyone gets Incidental Expense for the entire time they are away. Claims-X automatically applies it, and I've seen it given across the board.
> 
> However, chapter 7 and 8 of the CFTDTIs start with the same requirementes for application:
> 
> ...



Read the paragraph again.  Sub-para (a) covers the time on task at the TD location and sub-para (b) covers the time you take getting there and back


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## Lumber (6 Dec 2017)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Read the paragraph again.  Sub-para (a) covers the time on task at the TD location and sub-para (b) covers the time you take getting there and back



I did. It says "and" between sub-paras (b) and (c), not "or". Therefore, the way I read it, all 3 sub-paras need to apply before the chapter applies to a member.

If, a AND b, AND c, apply to you, use this chapter. If not, go find a different chapter.

At least that's the way I read it. I'll trust your judgment in that I am wrong.


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## Nfld Sapper (6 Dec 2017)

Maybe this section will help?

7.16  Incidental expense allowance

1. (Entitlement) Subject to paragraph (3), a member is entitled to an incidental expense allowance if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
    a. the member is on duty travel; and
    b. the member occupies accommodations

2. (Interpretation) For greater certainty, a gym - or spa or fitness centre fee - incurred by a member who is on duty travel is an incidental expense.

3. (No Entitlement) There is no entitlement to an incidental expense allowance if any of the following conditions are satisfied:
     a. the member is on adventure training authorized by or under the authority of the Chief of the Defence Staff;
     b. with the exception of sick leave granted under QR&O article 16.16 (Sick Leave), the member is on leave under QR&O chapter 16 (Leave);
     c. the member is in hospital;
     d. the member is in receipt of an allowance under Section 2 (Environmental Allowances) of CBI 205 (Allowances For Officers And Non-Commissioned Members) and is,
         i. deployed - in the field - on operations or training exercises of 24 hours or longer duration, or
         ii. aboard a ship - or submarine - that is out of port for more than 24 hours; or
     e. the member is on leave because the member requested to use a PMV rather than a more economical and practical mode of transportation and the member uses that PMV for duty travel.

4. (Amount) The amount of the incidental expense allowance is:
     a. in respect of the first 30 days of duty travel, 100% of the rate set out in the NJC Travel Directive for the member’s location at the start of each day; and
     b. in respect of the 31 stand any subsequent day of duty travel, 75% of the rate set out in the NJC Travel Directive for the member’s location at the start of the day.


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## Lumber (6 Dec 2017)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Maybe this section will help?
> 
> 7.16  Incidental expense allowance
> 
> ...



Appreciate the attempt to help, however:

1. "Duty Travel" isn't defined anywhere; and
2. My whole argument hinges on the idea that as soon as _any_ one of the 3 sub-paras in para 7.01 fails, the rest of the chapter no longer applies, including para 7.16.


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## Nfld Sapper (6 Dec 2017)

4.03  Duty travel - authorization

1. (Requirements) An approving authority who authorizes duty travel shall do so in writing before the duty travel begins. For greater certainty, a member is not entitled to any benefit under the CFTDTI without prior, written authorization for duty travel by an approving authority.
2. (Frequency) Subject to paragraph (1), an approving authority may authorize duty travel for the member once or any number of times (i.e. blanket authorization) during a year.


4.11  Member's duty travel responsibilities

A member shall: 

a. become acquainted with the CFTDTI;
b. obtain advance authorization for duty travel;
c. book duty travel through the DND Travel Centre;
d. whenever it is practicable, use:
     i. their IDTC - if the member is issued one - in accordance with FAM 1016-7-3 (Individual Travel Card); and
     ii. government approved - or if unavailable, Canadian - suppliers, services, and products;
e. submit duty travel claims - and receipts and necessary supporting documentation - within one year after the completion of the duty travel unless the circumstances disclose sufficient reasons for the delay and those reasons are endorsed by the CMP personally; 
f. manage duty travel expenses responsibly (e.g. cancel reservations as required, safeguard travel advances and funds provided, and make outstanding remittances promptly); and
g. not seek payment under section 35(2) of the National Defence Act in respect of anything provided at no expense to the member.


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## Pusser (7 Dec 2017)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I did. It says "and" between sub-paras (b) and (c), not "or". Therefore, the way I read it, all 3 sub-paras need to apply before the chapter applies to a member.
> 
> If, a AND b, AND c, apply to you, use this chapter. If not, go find a different chapter.
> 
> At least that's the way I read it. I'll trust your judgment in that I am wrong.



I would agree that the paragraph is poorly worded.  Unfortunately, the replacement of CFAOs with DAODs and other policy documents (e.g. the CFTDI) has NOT improved clarity or efficiency in the interpretation and efficiency of policy.  I rely upon common sense and past practice when dealing with much of this.  But what will happen when folks like me (i.e. those who remember when the world made sense) are all gone?  Thankfully, Claims-X calculates it automatically, so it must be right!


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