# career medical review board



## tree hugger (2 Jun 2004)

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience in dealing with the CMRB.   
My problem:   I've got a bum knee and I am being placed on a permenent category.   I have not finished my training for my current MOC, and I had my last two years of university sponsored by the military through ROTP.   I'd like to hear of your experiences (good or bad) with regards to dealing with the CMRB.   I am praying that I will not get released but be transferred to another less physically demanding trade such as air log or AEC.


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## Garry (2 Jun 2004)

All Military pers must meet a certain physical fitness standard. It's composed of a series of tests designed to really see if you can work through your disability. Carry a stretcher, dig a trench, fire a weapon, run at a pace other than your own....and it really isn't that tough.

If your knee is shot, but you can still get around, you should be ok.

Good luck.

Garry- three knee operations and a busted back.


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## Cansky (19 Jun 2004)

When you are placed on Permanent Category it has to be approved by DMED Pol.  They assign you limitations.  These limitations (and not your condition) are sent to AR(MEL) Career review.  They then see if your limitations violate the universality of service.  These is done through task statements, these are both universal to all personnel as well as trade specific.  Even if you violate the universality of service, this doesn't mean you'll be released.  If your current trade is willing to accommodate you they might or you might get a new trade.  All medical clinics have access to a Case Manager.  When you are placed on permanent category from DMed Pol you should have been given  a  Case Manager.  If not then request one,  these persons are trained to help you with all decisions regarding your category and how the process works.  If you need any more advice or have any questions please email me.


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## Armymedic (19 Jun 2004)

Good post Kirsten,

Further to her post,
Accomadation within trades has been fairly wide spread due to the shortages of pers in all trades. But Cbt arms are less receptive. Infantry and Engineer seem to grant the least accomadation. 

So it really depends on the line of work your are looking to, chances are it will limit your employment choices.


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## Bin-Rat (27 Feb 2005)

Wow, things must of really changed then since I was medically released..
backin 93 there were no case manager's... You can do a Redress of Agrievence if the CMRB does decide to release you..
Myself I had 5 people as in the BTSO, BSUP O, Career manager's, the Wo, and Officer, and Co 1CDHSR reports saying retain, with restrictions, my catagory was a G3 O3 and I was a supply tech... but the CMRB board still said, Nope released...

One thing they may do is tray for a remuster to new trade, but then again, they asked me, I gave them 6 different trades I would have like to go, knowing my limitations, and again they were all denied....

So, Umm, think about a ROG... if you really wanna stay in, and also make sure all points of your problem are down in your doc's, incase you can't be retain, and need to apply for a medical pension....


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## Cansky (27 Feb 2005)

Your right Bin-Rat things have changed alot since 93.  They are trying to make the process a lot more user friendly and give an easier way to get answer that the injured soldier need.  But ultimately if you don't meet universality of service or your current trade isn't willing to accommodate you then its release with some form of a medical pension.


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## tree hugger (27 Feb 2005)

Whats an ROG?  I'm being processed as a G3O3, I'm in process of fighting this even though I haven't been given my disclosure package yet.  Just had an MRI on Friday and the 14 Mar, I'm going to a military orthopedic surgeon in Ottawa.  I'm really trying to stay in, I'm not even picky as to what trade.


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## Bin-Rat (27 Feb 2005)

ROG = Redress of Grievence... meaning you want to fight your release, or CMRB decision... 
what you can do is ask for assistance from a Officer in writing your ROG / Appeal for the CMRB to review your case, and see if they will reconsider...
You should have already talked to a PSO (Personal Selection Officer) and he would or should have talked to you about your choices.. 
They needed a PSO report prior to my doc's going to the CMRB... I was asked about remustering.. and mentioned my trades I would have liked but at that time they said no to all my choices...


Yes, it would be better and more smoothly if they could streamline the system... When I had my apeal hearing on my medical pension or VIA the VMRB..  (Veterans medical review board) the first thing they were asking for is like were is the CF98.. Now none of my injuries were ever wrote up on a CF98 and I guess they were in Use around while I was in, but hardly ever used...


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## tree hugger (5 Mar 2005)

OK guys.  I got my disclosure package yesterday.  I am being recommended for release.  Needless to say I am not impressed.  I am no way packing it in and giving up quite yet!  

First of all, I'm going to request an extention for my rebuttal so I can be sure to include the report from the ortho surgeon I will be seeing.  I was wondering if any of you guys had a copy of the generic task statement (which I understand is the standard for meeting the universality of service principle).  Can anyone confirm if the officer MOC's do not have a BFOR standard written up? 

If anyone has any ideas how I can fight this, please do not feel shy about telling me!  I really feel I do have a valid argument WRT the current condition of my knee and my ability to contribute.

Thanks all!


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## Cansky (5 Mar 2005)

Like I said before you should be assigned a case manager.  If you haven't then go to the medical clinic and get one assigned to you.  This can't be refused.  This person should be able to point you in the right direction as how to redress this issue.  


a copy of the generic task statement 
        Talk to your medical records department.  The task statements have changed over the past few years.  They would have the latest copy.  Also request a copy of your medical docs.  You can formally do this through the Privacy act(but will hold up all medical issues as privacy sections holds file 6- 12 months)  or informally through your local medical records department.  This way you'll know exactly what is on your file and why.

report from the ortho surgeon 
      Is this the only ortho you've seen if so I would differently ask for a second opinion.  

Good luck any questions feel free to ask


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## tree hugger (5 Mar 2005)

Thanks Kristen!

I do have a case manager and she has been very supportive of my fight.  I did have another orthopedic surgeon when I was in Gagetown.  He was the one who did the scope and said how awful my knee was.  He was not military and worked at a civi hospital had would have had no idea how damaging his report was. Everything since has been based on what he wrote.  The first time I had his report read to me I was extremely confused because it sounded like I should be using a walker full-on!  Basically it seemed way out there.

My doctor in Gagetown was a civilian working there only part-time and I continually tried to convince her the MEL's she gave to me were way too severe.  eg. one MEL was no running, I said to her:

"You know I'm not going to stop running right?"
She said "Oh, I know."

I do not feel as though I had due process.  I was never assessed a TCAT, they gave me a knee brace that was probably designed before I was born that probably cost $10.  I have not been given physio further than a month after my last scope.


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## Cansky (5 Mar 2005)

Well that sounds very interesting.  Usually you get a TCat for up to one year before being put on a PCat. If you knee is this bad you should definitely still be in physio.  If what you are saying is accurate I would redress this for sure.  Unless there is something saying you'll never be able to do any job in the military you should have been given time to recoup.  I know of people who have had parts of their knees replaced (ACL ligament repair) before ever being in the army and were aloud to join the reg force.  Hope this is helping your case.


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## tree hugger (5 Mar 2005)

Yeah I was one!  I had an ACL reconstruction when I was in high school - I was a pretty competitive soccer player at the time.  My ACL is still pretty good - just a little give.  I guess they are more bothered by the the onset of osteoarthritis and cartilage wear.  

I'm still a big gym rat - mostly eliptical, bike, rower and treadmill.  Tried ball hockey a couple a weeks ago and felt fine (felt I needed a little test) - scored 4 or 5 goals.

My biggest obstacle I think is the fact that I am still untrained - they won't let me go on CAP with these MEL's....


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## Bin-Rat (6 Mar 2005)

Umm can I ask a quick question.. what Pcat have they put you under... ?????
Like are you a G4 O3 or G4 O4 or G3 O4..

When I had my Problem I was put on a Tcat for 6 months, then at the end of that Tcat, I again was extended another 6month Tcat.. Due to on goiing treatment.. it wasn't untill the Ortho in Ottawa said he couldn't do any more, that I went to a Pcat of G3 O3, and released..3B

Did you all not talk to like the PSO see if there was a chance for a Occupational transfer..?

But, Ya fight it man.. if you send in a redress I don't believe they can release you while there is a redress in progress can they ???
Also if you send in a ROG and your date is soon to arise, see you Section Command about requesting an extention untill the ROG is being processed, cause once you are released, guess what.. your options are then limited cause you can't file the ROG once released, so get it in before your release date, and if necessary ask for an extention...

Best of Luck...


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## tree hugger (6 Mar 2005)

Yeah, I'm a G3O3

On my disclusure package it said that I did not meet the Universality of service and I transgressed my BFOR (which I thought did not really exist in officer MOC's) and therefore was not suitable for an OT.


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## old medic (6 Mar 2005)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> I was wondering if any of you guys had a copy of the generic task statement (which I understand is the standard for meeting the universality of service principle).



You can find the Medical Exam standards here:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/engraph/med_standards_home_e.asp?Lev1=7&Lev2=3

You can find the CRB(M) process in CFAO 34-26

The minimum task statement is in Annex E of the medical standards manual  CFP-154.
The online link has been broken for some time, You should get yourself a copy of it.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/engraph/annex_e_e.asp

Best of Luck


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## tree hugger (14 Mar 2005)

Well, well, well!   I just came back from my appointment with the ortho surgeon.   Apparently I'm not going crazy!   He was completely in my corner WRT the current condition of my knee!   He gave me the "green light" to do whatever physical activities I want to now!   Woowoo!   He will write a letter to the CMRB and my doc in TO saying that I should stay G2O2 etc.etc.   He gave me a perscription to go get a real ACL brace...yeehaw!

It was great, I went in prepared with all of these arguments but I ended up preaching to the choir because he was totally in agreement!   I'm thinking that if the ortho surgeon thinks I'm good to go, the CMRB will have to change their minds.   He actually said the G3 part was ridiculous!

I was so happy when I stepped out of his office I couldn't stop smiling...then I got to my car and I couldn't stop crying....I was so happy!

Yeah, I'm a big girl!

Ih yeah, when I went to pick up my file on Fri, the doc said that my MRI came out pretty good - it showed missing miniscus, bone spurs but no crap floating around it in.  She was pleased.


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## tree hugger (18 Mar 2005)

So does anyone know how I can get a copy of the BFOR for 46?  I've seen the NCM versions on the DIN but no active link for the officers.


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## tree hugger (3 May 2005)

Well, wish me luck everyone!  This afternoon I go in for my part 2 of my medical (yes, my second time around!).  Rumour has it that the letter from the ortho surgeon is really really really good and in my favour.  Hopefully I will be reporting back this afternoon with good news and no limitations!

-TH


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## tree hugger (3 May 2005)

Well guys, the doc signed me off as a G2O2 and my file is heading back up to DMCARM.  Doc is "red flagging" it so I'll be all sorted out before my release date rolls around. (Got my release message last week  )
Looks like I'll still be employed for 20+ years!

-TH


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