# Oldest and Senior Regiments/Units



## dtmelv (28 Feb 2005)

What is the oldest and the senior active Regiment/ Unit in the CDN Army both Reserve and Reg force?


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## Love793 (28 Feb 2005)

Oldest or Senior?


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## Michael Dorosh (28 Feb 2005)

EDIT - my mistake, the Governor General's Foot Guards would be the senior in the reserves.

The Royal Canadian Regiment is senior, and the oldest, of the Regular Force regiments.   PPCLI and R 22e R are babies in comparison, dating back only to 1914.

Check out the Orders of Battle links at my site at www.canadiansoldiers.com for a look at how the regiments have changed over the years - but be advised they only date back to 1 Jan 1900 - our oldest regiments predate that.


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## Love793 (28 Feb 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> EDIT - my mistake, the Governor General's Foot Guards would be the senior in the reserves.
> 
> The Royal Canadian Regiment is senior, and the oldest, of the Regular Force regiments.   PPCLI and R 22e R are babies in comparison, dating back only to 1914.
> 
> Check out the Orders of Battle links at my site at www.canadiansoldiers.com for a look at how the regiments have changed over the years - but be advised they only date back to 1 Jan 1900 - our oldest regiments predate that.



Those are the oldest (Infantry wise), not the senior units.


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## GENOMS Soilder (28 Feb 2005)

I have heard that 11th Feild Artillery in Guelph is an old unit.


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## Michael Dorosh (28 Feb 2005)

Love793 said:
			
		

> Those are the oldest (Infantry wise), not the senior units.



Nonsense; GGFG take the right of the line on parade as is customary for Guards units.   You do know how to calculate Order of Precedence, yes?


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## Horse_Soldier (28 Feb 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Nonsense; GGFG take the right of the line on parade as is customary for Guards units.   You do know how to calculate Order of Precedence, yes?



Not quite.  The GGFG takes precedence over all militia regiments, but all regular regiments take precedence over it.  See A-AD-200-000/AG-000

INFANTRY REGIMENTS 

4. Order of precedence for infantry regiments is as follows (an asterisk* indicates both Regular and Reserve Force components): 

a. Regular Force 
(1) The Royal Canadian Regiment*, 
(2) Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, 
(3) Royal 22e Regiment*, and 
(4) Canadian Airborne Regiment. 

b. Militia 

(1) Governor General's Foot Guards, 
(2) The Canadian Grenadier Guards, 
(3) The Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 
(4) The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada, 
(5) Les Voltigeurs de Quebec, 
(6) The Royal Regiment of Canada, 
(7) The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (Wentworth Regiment), 
(8) The Princess of Wales' Own Regiment, 
(9) The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, 
(10) The Lincoln and Welland Regiment, 
(11) The Royal Canadian Regiment*, 
(12) The Highland Fusiliers of Canada, 
(13) The Grey and Simcoe Foresters, 
(14) The Lorne Scots (Peel, Dufferin and Halton Regiment), 
(15) The Brockville Rifles, 
(16) Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders, 
(17) Les Fusiliers du Saint-Laurent, 
(18) Le Regiment de la Chaudiere, 
(19) Royal 22e Regiment*, 
(20) Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal, 
(21) The Princess Louise Fusiliers, 
(22) The Royal New Brunswick Regiment, 
(23) The West Nova Scotia Regiment, 
(24) The Nova Scotia Highlanders, 
(25) Le Regiment de Maisonneuve, 
(26) The Cameroon Highlanders of Ottawa, 
(27) The Royal Winnipeg Rifles, 
(28) The Essex and Kent Scottish, 
(29) 48th Highlanders of Canada, 
(30) Le Regiment du Saguenay, 
(31) The Algonquin Regiment, 
(32) The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise's), 
(33) The Lake Superior Scottish Regiment, 
(34) The North Saskatchewan Regiment, 
(35) The Royal Regina Rifles, 
(36) The Rocky Mountain Rangers, 
(37) The Loyal Edmonton Regiment (4th Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry), 
(38) The Queen's Own Cameroon Highlanders of Canada, 
(39) The Royal Westminster Regiment, 
(40) The Calgary Highlanders, 
(41) Les Fusiliers de Sherbrooke, 
(42) The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, 
(43) The Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary's), 
(44) The Royal Montreal Regiment, 
(45) Irish Regiment of Canada, 
(46) The Toronto Scottish Regiment, and 
(47) The Royal Newfoundland Regiment.


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## Michael Dorosh (28 Feb 2005)

Indeed, but the question was asked - who is senior in each case.  I didn't mean to imply the GGFG took precedence over Regular units - my mistake. Thanks for the ref, incidentally!


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## RatCatcher (28 Feb 2005)

But I do beleive RCHA predates all other regiments (regardless of type of combat arm).


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## Gunner (28 Feb 2005)

The RCHA hold the right of the line on mounted parades.  RCA (and RCHA if dismounted) units take precedence immediately following the RCAC.  Infantry and the remainder of units follow.

http://www.artillery.net/english/RCA Standing Orders.pdf


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## muskrat89 (28 Feb 2005)

> I have heard that 11th Feild Artillery in Guelph is an old unit.



3rd Field Regiment (The Loyal Company) is the oldest artillery Regiment in Canada, and third-oldest in the Commonwealth. It was formed in 1793.

http://www.saintjohn.nbcc.nb.ca/~Heritage/3far/SectionIndex.htm


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## RatCatcher (28 Feb 2005)

Thanks for the info Gunner, I thought I remembered something like that from drinking at the RCHA Association in Kingston.... got to love drinking with gunners...


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## Michael Dorosh (28 Feb 2005)

Ah, I see the point now.  The original question did not specify "Infantry."  Guess he thinks the other arms actually matter. ;D


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## big bad john (28 Feb 2005)

There are other arms????   Oh you mean Infantry and those that support them, right.  lol


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## Love793 (28 Feb 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> The RCHA hold the right of the line on mounted parades.   RCA (and RCHA if dismounted) units take precedence immediately following the RCAC.   Infantry and the remainder of units follow.
> 
> http://www.artillery.net/english/RCA Standing Orders.pdf



That's what I was getting at.   RMC, RCN, Arty, RCAC, Inf, Supporting Arms, Airforce.


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## Sh0rtbUs (28 Feb 2005)

what abou QYRang? Im fairly sure we're up there, being around since the Boer War AND currently using the oldest standing Armouries in the CF in Aurora. (Apparently)


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## Love793 (28 Feb 2005)

Sh0rtbUs said:
			
		

> what abou QYRang? Im fairly sure we're up there, being around since the Boer War AND currently using the oldest standing Armouries in the CF in Aurora. (Apparently)



I think you're about the fifth or so in the Corps order of seniority.  I don't think a WW1 gunshed is counted as a armouries however, and you May want to check with 4RCR and the 1H about that as well.  I believe Wolsley Barracks is a little bit older (1884, give or take, RCR guys correct me if I'm wrong)


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## Gunner (28 Feb 2005)

Everything you ever wanted to know about precedence in the CF:

http://my.tbaytel.net/tgroulx/precedence.htm

CFAO 61-6 
ANNEX B - 
PRECEDENCE OF LAND FIELD FORCE 

GENERAL 

1. The precedence of the land field force is based on the former army corps structure. 

FUNCTIONAL UNITS 

2. Precedence among units of the land field force follows the same order as that for branches, except that: 

a. units of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery take precedence over Armour Branch units (see also Note 1); and 

b. service battalions take precedence according to that of their senior component, ie, after infantry and before medical units. 

ARMOURED REGIMENTS 

3. Order of precedence for armoured regiments is as follows (an asterisk* indicates both Regular and Reserve Force components): 

a. Regular Force 

(1) The Royal Canadian Dragoons, 
(2) Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians), and 
(3) 12e Regiment blinde du Canada*. 
b. Militia 
(1) The Governor General's Horse Guards, 
(2) 8th Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise's), 
(3) The Elgin Regiment, 
(4) The Ontario Regiment, 
(5) The Queen's York Rangers (1st American Regiment), 
(6) Sherbrooke Hussars, 
(7) 12e Regiment blinde du Canada (Militia)*. 
(8) 1st Hussars, 
(9) The Prince Edward Island Regiment, 
(10) The Royal Canadian Hussars (Montreal), 
(11) The British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own), 
(12) The South Alberta Light Horse, 
(13) The Saskatchewan Dragoons, 
(14) The King's Own Calgary Regiment, 
(15) The British Columbia Dragoons, 
(16) The Fort Garry Horse, 
(17) Le Regiment de Hull, and 
(18) The Windsor Regiment. 

INFANTRY REGIMENTS 

4. Order of precedence for infantry regiments is as follows (an asterisk* indicates both Regular and Reserve Force components): 

a. Regular Force 
(1) The Royal Canadian Regiment*, 
(2) Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, 
(3) Royal 22e Regiment*, and 
(4) Canadian Airborne Regiment. 

b. Militia 

(1) Governor General's Foot Guards, 
(2) The Canadian Grenadier Guards, 
(3) The Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 
(4) The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada, 
(5) Les Voltigeurs de Quebec, 
(6) The Royal Regiment of Canada, 
(7) The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (Wentworth Regiment), 
(8) The Princess of Wales' Own Regiment, 
(9) The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, 
(10) The Lincoln and Welland Regiment, 
(11) The Royal Canadian Regiment*, 
(12) The Highland Fusiliers of Canada, 
(13) The Grey and Simcoe Foresters, 
(14) The Lorne Scots (Peel, Dufferin and Halton Regiment), 
(15) The Brockville Rifles, 
(16) Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders, 
(17) Les Fusiliers du Saint-Laurent, 
(18) Le Regiment de la Chaudiere, 
(19) Royal 22e Regiment*, 
(20) Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal, 
(21) The Princess Louise Fusiliers, 
(22) The Royal New Brunswick Regiment, 
(23) The West Nova Scotia Regiment, 
(24) The Nova Scotia Highlanders, 
(25) Le Regiment de Maisonneuve, 
(26) The Cameroon Highlanders of Ottawa, 
(27) The Royal Winnipeg Rifles, 
(28) The Essex and Kent Scottish, 
(29) 48th Highlanders of Canada, 
(30) Le Regiment du Saguenay, 
(31) The Algonquin Regiment, 
(32) The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise's), 
(33) The Lake Superior Scottish Regiment, 
(34) The North Saskatchewan Regiment, 
(35) The Royal Regina Rifles, 
(36) The Rocky Mountain Rangers, 
(37) The Loyal Edmonton Regiment (4th Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry), 
(38) The Queen's Own Cameroon Highlanders of Canada, 
(39) The Royal Westminster Regiment, 
(40) The Calgary Highlanders, 
(41) Les Fusiliers de Sherbrooke, 
(42) The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, 
(43) The Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary's), 
(44) The Royal Montreal Regiment, 
(45) Irish Regiment of Canada, 
(46) The Toronto Scottish Regiment, and 
(47) The Royal Newfoundland Regiment. 

Notes - 
1. The Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, when on parade with their guns, take the right and march past at the head of all units of the land field force, including army elements of military colleges. 

2. Officer cadets of the Canadian Military Colleges take precedence over all land field forces when parading as a unit or detachment representing their college, except as provided in Note 1. At all other times they parade with the unit of the branch to which they are attached. 

3. Except as provided in Notes 4 and 5, armoured and infantry regiments take precedence within their branch according to the date of origin of the oldest unit that formed the regiment. 

4. Units of guards (horse or foot) take precedence over other units within their branch, regardless of the date of origin, and, in turn, take precedence amongst themselves according to the date they became guards. 

5. An armoured or infantry regiment with both Regular and Reserve Force components takes precedence within the Reserve Force according to the regiment's date of origin, and within the Regular Force according to the date its Regular Force component became part of that Force. 

6. Numbered infantry and service battalions take precedence amongst themselves within their own position in the line in numerical order. 

Issued 1989-04-28

(Note: Canadian Forces Administrative Orders {CFAO} 61-1 "Precedence" has been absorbed into Canadian Forces publication A-AD-200-000/AG-000, "The Honours, Flags and Heritage Structure of the Canadian Forces" which is not readily available through the Internet. This unofficial website is, at least for now, your easiest access to this information.TRG)

click here to return to my home page.


PRECEDENCE in Canada and the Canadian Armed Forces / Timothy R. Groulx / Tim Groulx

13 October 2002


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## George Wallace (28 Feb 2005)

A couple of points with your list:  The Canadian Airborne Regiment has been disbanded so are not in the order anymore.  The Elgin Regiment is no longer an Armour Reserve Unit, but an Engineer Unit, and as such would not be part of this list.

GW


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## Sh0rtbUs (28 Feb 2005)

thanks for the correction. Just out of curiousity, whats the deal with the copper in the floors? Aurora's floors actually rust when wet due to the Tanks that once inhabited the building. I'm aware of its purpose, but how common is it in the Armouries around Canada. As well, I think its copper. Correct me if Im wrong (more than likely am)


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## pbi (28 Feb 2005)

Sh0rtbUs: Are you sure it's copper? It is not too likely that copper would be used for flooring: it's pretty soft, and a fairly expesive way to floor a building. Could it be some other type of metal?

From what I have seen, most armouries have either a sealed and painted concrete floor or a composition floor, although smaller armouries (like Thomas Street in Oakville, Ontario) might have wood or linoleum. 

Cheers


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## PPCLI Guy (28 Feb 2005)

The oldest infantry unit in Canada is the CGG - they trace unbroken lineage back to the First Battalion Montreal Militia in 1760.  IIRC, the oldest serving under the same name is the QOR.

Dave


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## RatCatcher (28 Feb 2005)

I do know that in the medical units 1 Fd Amb in Edmonton is the oldest medical unit, the youngest is 5 Amb de Camp in Valcartier. 2 Fd Amb is somewhere in the middle....


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## chrisf (28 Feb 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> (47) The Royal Newfoundland Regiment.



What's up with the RNR being last? They were formed in 1795 if I recall correctly...


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## Gunner (28 Feb 2005)

> What's up with the RNR being last? They were formed in 1795 if I recall correctly...



There is a difference between when they were formed and their order of precedence (see comments above).  RNR didn't join the Canadian Order of Battle until 1949.


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## chrisf (28 Feb 2005)

That's what I figured, but I had to ask anyway. Thanks.


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## old medic (28 Feb 2005)

Sh0rtbUs said:
			
		

> . Just out of curiousity, whats the deal with the copper in the floors? Aurora's floors actually rust when wet due to the Tanks that once inhabited the building. I'm aware of its purpose, but how common is it in the Armouries around Canada. As well, I think its copper. Correct me if Im wrong (more than likely am)



Copper is very rare for flooring. It can be decorative in modern housing, but in really old buildings copper plating was used as 
a heat shield when a stove, furnace, or boiler was on the floor.  Do you mean boiler tanks ?

http://www.hms-trincomalee.co.uk/virtual/detail/images/stove.htm


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## Fishbone Jones (1 Mar 2005)

Copper doesn't rust. If it oxidizes, it turns green. Are you saying that the whole floor is copper? Or flecs of something mixed with the concrete floor. There is absolutley no reason why copper would have been used in a floor for tanks. It has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Iron filings may have been used as filler, but it's not a comon practice. The amount of steel left on the concrete from steel tracks would have been worn off and gone along time ago.


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## pbi (1 Mar 2005)

On this business of who is "oldest" (vice who is "senior") it is worth remembering that until and unless we change our laws, no unit can officially claim lineage before the Militia Act of 1856. Unit histories, etc that claim descent originating before then are great, but they really don't cut much official ice.

Cheers.


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## Michael Dorosh (1 Mar 2005)

pbi said:
			
		

> On this business of who is "oldest" (vice who is "senior") it is worth remembering that until and unless we change our laws, no unit can officially claim lineage before the Militia Act of 1856. Unit histories, etc that claim descent originating before then are great, but they really don't cut much official ice.
> 
> Cheers.



Where did Hamilton Gault lose his leg?


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## PPCLI Guy (1 Mar 2005)

pbi said:
			
		

> On this business of who is "oldest" (vice who is "senior") it is worth remembering that until and unless we change our laws, no unit can officially claim lineage before the Militia Act of 1856. Unit histories, etc that claim descent originating before then are great, but they really don't cut much official ice.
> 
> Cheers.



I was wondering who would catch me on that one....

Dave


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## PPCLI Guy (1 Mar 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Where did Hamilton Gault lose his leg?



Below the knee.

Couldn't resist.

Dave


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## pbi (1 Mar 2005)

Yuk. Yuk. Yuk. I haven't heard that one in years.

Cheers


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## Michael Dorosh (1 Mar 2005)

See?  You see?  You don't need to be an OLD regiment to be the FUNNIEST regiment!

They have a million of those, folks!


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## big bad john (1 Mar 2005)

30,000 comedians in the country and we get him!  LOL


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## Gayson (8 Mar 2005)

The Aurora floor rusts because it is full of steel.  The Armoury once stored 4 sherman tanks.

You can see the steel fillings in the concrete.


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## vangemeren (10 Mar 2005)

I have a hypothetical question. If for some reason a new reg force regiment was formed:

a) how do they choose the name?
b) would they pick a res unit and convert it?
c) is the order of presidence just for parades or would it apply in this situation as well?


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## bridges (10 Mar 2005)

Just wanted to drop in here for a sec and thank gunner for the link & list at http://my.tbaytel.net/tgroulx/precedence.htm.  Very useful, even if updated versions are also avail.  Thanks.


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## pbi (11 Mar 2005)

vangemeren said:
			
		

> I have a hypothetical question. If for some reason a new reg force regiment was formed:
> 
> a) how do they choose the name?
> b) would they pick a res unit and convert it?
> c) is the order of presidence just for parades or would it apply in this situation as well?



The last time we came close to this in the Cbt Arm (not counting JTF II) was the "re-activation" of the Fort Garry Horse" as the 1 Cdn Div Recce Regt, during the build-up of our forces in Germany in the 80's. Beyond assigning a few RegF armoured types to the FGH capbadge, I'm not sure very much happened. Our practice of reducing redundant units to nil strength and making them dormant, as opposed to disbanding them, means that if we need to we can reactivate the name complete with badges, traditions, etc.

Cheers


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## Sh0rtbUs (11 Mar 2005)

J. Gayson said:
			
		

> The Aurora floor rusts because it is full of steel.  The Armoury once stored 4 sherman tanks.
> 
> You can see the steel fillings in the concrete.



I was just taking a guess at Copper. Thanx Gayson, I owe you a Guiness  

How common is this throughout Canada?


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