# IDF's Krav Maga as prep for BMQ/SQ, CAP, EXPRES



## Sask HCAO (2 Sep 2005)

Anybody here taking Krav Maga? (the Israeli Defence Force's hand-to-hand combat system) 
It's now being taught here in Canada, and I found it to be indispensible for preparing me for summer courses with more than a bit of PT. 
If anyone's interested in learning more about what it is and/or where it is taught, just let me know.


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## Fusaki (2 Sep 2005)

You won't need it for BMQ or SQ, and I only did about 30 hours hand to hand training on my BIQ. IMHO our hand to hand training in the CF these days is seriously lacking, but I'm pretty sure that whole can of worms has been opened on previous threads.

With that in mind I'd be interested in hearing if any new Krav Maga schools have opened recently. The last I heard the closest schools in my part of town were in downtown Toronto and (IIRC) Ottawa - too far of a commute to be worthwhile.


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## Sask HCAO (2 Sep 2005)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> IMHO our hand to hand training in the CF these days is seriously lacking, but I'm pretty sure that whole can of worms has been opened on previous threads.



True, but I was thinking more in terms of Krav's training value to new CF members, because of its focus on traditional military PT (such as proper push-ups and sit-ups - supervised by an instructor) as well as circuit training and general cardio-conditioning routines. You could do these things by yourself in the gym of course, but with a class of, say, 25 others- its a lot closer to the military experience of "group suffering"    
Learning how to disarm an opponent pointing a pistol at you is a side benefit!

With regard to Ontario locations outside of Toronto, there are KM schools currently operating in: Ancaster, Dundas, Kitchener, Oakville, Oshawa and St. Catherine's. Don't know if any of these towns are close to you, Ghostwalk!


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## Gouki (2 Sep 2005)

Damn.. So none in Barrie huh


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## Sask HCAO (2 Sep 2005)

Not yet. Hopefully soon! Whoever opens a KM school there would likely make good money with Borden being close by.


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## Fusaki (2 Sep 2005)

> With regard to Ontario locations outside of Toronto, there are KM schools currently operating in: Ancaster, Dundas, Kitchener, Oakville, Oshawa and St. Catherine's. Don't know if any of these towns are close to you, Ghostwalk!



Sorry to say, but Oakville would be the closest to my hometown and even that's a little too far. I already have a really good Brazilian Jiu Jutsu/Muay Thai club in Woodbridge where I spend alot of my time when on leave, so I guess I'm more interested in stuff closer to Petawawa anyways.

Here I go off on a tangent...

Another thing that should be looked at is what exactly are you looking for in a martial art. Krav Maga isn't exactly something that you can dummy your loud mouthed buddy with - its just too brutal. BJJ on the other hand can be practiced at 100% speed and power without too much risk of serious injury. But is BJJ practical for military purposes? The fact that you can spar at full speed against live and thinking opponents counts for alot - especially when compared to arts based more on kata that require training with an opponent who knows what move you're going for and will roll with the strikes to avoid injury.


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## a_majoor (2 Sep 2005)

Martial arts haev been discussed in other threads, and I would have to say that the vast majority of martial arts systems are excellent for mental focus, physical conditioning and (maybe) day to day hazzards. When you are in body armour, fighting order and carrying a weapon, your range of motion will probably be too restricted to use these systems. (I will not comment on Krav Maga, as I am unfamilier with that system).

The CF should invest in unarmed combat, since besides the practical aspects of physical and mental conditioning, we do need a way to take down/restrain suspects, disarm people who might try to jump us with an improvised weapon during a foot patrol, and protect/retain your rifle or firearm if someone comes out of the crowd and grabs it. (Shooting or clubbing suspects in these conditions, while effective, has issues with CNN and local preceptions. If you can take a person quickly and quietly, then your partner can flex-cuff the person and get them out of sight right away).

My thoughts


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## Sask HCAO (2 Sep 2005)

a_majoor said:
			
		

> When you are in body armour, fighting order and carrying a weapon, your range of motion will probably be too restricted to use these systems.



Krav Maga was developed with these specific issues in mind, which is why it has been used by the Israeli Army for more than 50 years, and is increasingly being adopted/adapted by many police and military forces around the world. It dispenses with the "fancy kicks", prevalent in most martial arts, and gets straight to the point. Krav Maga acknowledges that real-life fights are always unpredictable and obviously not pretty. To that end, training focuses on punches and blocking punches, escaping from choke-holds and other dangerous situations, restraining violent subjects, disabling armed subjects, and groundwork/grappling. These techniques can easily be performed while students are wearing FFO (as they were designed to do in the IDF).
IMHO, Krav Maga should be adopted as the official personal defence system of the Canadian Forces - I have yet to see a unified system that is more practical and well-suited to our needs. I realize that this is unlikely to occur, however, given the rather politically-loaded implications of using Israeli "methods" in our military.


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## nd.07 (5 Sep 2005)

Just wondering, must you be a certain age to take Krav Maga classes?  I'm 14 and would really be interested in learning some useful self defence, after giving up karate 5 years ago for hockey and basketball.


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## Sask HCAO (8 Sep 2005)

In Regina, where I took Krav Maga, the chief instructor offered KM for youth, a (slightly) scaled down version of the adult class (but not by much, I was told). I am not sure what other Krav Maga centres are doing. At 14, you might be able to attend regular courses. I'd check with the nearest Krav training centre.


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## Jarnhamar (8 Sep 2005)

This may be off topic somewhat and not what your looking for but if you REALLY want to prepare for basic training then try these

Getting dressed in PT gear and uniform w/boots in the complete dark.
Changing into your uniform as fast as you can and back to PT gear again.
Go to bed at 11:30 or 12pm and wake up at 5am.
Go for a run at 5am for 40 minutes. 
Two or three weeks before basic training start shrinking your stomach by eating smaller and smaller portions.
Practice shaving in under 5 minutes, do it as quickly as you can without turning into scarface
go for long walks with a backpack on with about 40 pounds of crap in it. (Not real crap, sickos)

That will help you 100 times more than martial arts classes when it comes to basic training.


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## Sask HCAO (8 Sep 2005)

Yeah, but if you try doing all that stuff in public places (such as a city), people will think you're weird!


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## Jarnhamar (9 Sep 2005)

Getting dressed into your uniform while in the privacy of your home? Think your safe there.

Running at 5 am?  Thats pretty common.
Going for a walk with a backpack? Who cares. You'll either look like a student or like someone going hiking.


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## Sask HCAO (9 Sep 2005)

True enough. But I guess my original point was that Krav Maga is a practical and fun way of getting into shape quickly, as well as it being a good hand-to-hand defense system that the CF should take a look at adopting for personal combat.


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## paracowboy (9 Sep 2005)

Sask HCAO said:
			
		

> being a good hand-to-hand defense system that the CF should take a look at adopting for personal combat.


I'll buy that for a dollar.


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## Zombie (21 Nov 2005)

I'm going to check out this place tonight (www.edgecombatfitness.com), anyone heard of it? It teaches Krav Maga under the name Combat Survival. Hopefully it's a good place, although I'm not sure how much I'll be able to learn before going off to Basic.


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## JNW (6 Mar 2006)

a_majoor said:
			
		

> When you are in body armour, fighting order and carrying a weapon, your range of motion will probably be too restricted to use these systems....
> we do need a way to take down/restrain suspects, disarm people who might try to jump us with an improvised weapon during a foot patrol, and protect/retain your rifle or firearm if someone comes out of the crowd and grabs it.



"Armoured" martial arts are rare, but one to think about is AIKIJUJUTSU or other traditional samurai arts, whose techniques were developed with the armoured and helmeted warrior in mind.    In fact, alot of the techniques look strange from the outside because they are taken out of context in a modern dojo.  But I know many police officers who have seen the value of fighting when someone has taken a hold of your weapon, fighting while preventing anyone from drawing your (holstered/sheathed) weapon, fighting using the added mass of armour/backpack to your advantage, etc.

BJJ is nice, but its so "free" -- practitioners fight wearing a gi at most -- so IMHO the art represents the ideal or purest jujutsu -- on a mat, where athleticism and technique are the only factors -- no rocky ground, no multiple-attackers standing around throwing kicks while you wrestle one guy, etc.  I think this is why BJJ has found such a home in sport fighting -- the wrestling ring is its natural home.

One might also consider SYSTEMA - the martial art of the former Soviet Spetznaz (the Russian version of the Navy Seals).  They deal with survival and power of the will in all kinds of situations.  EG - lay down on the ground and defend yourself while three others stand around you and kick you - do the same exercise on the ground up against a wall, fight with trenching shovels, fighting with handcuffs on, fighting at the brink of exhaustion, etc.  Its great stuff.


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## Bartgs (13 Mar 2006)

Krav Maga is watered-down Hapkido. If you want to defend yourself in a life-threatening situation you will most likely not succeed using Krav Maga, simply because in a high stress situation, your fine motor control is the first thing to go (ie, all those fancy wrist/finger/nerve points)... you simply dont have the co-ordination, and precision to pull off some of the complex moves Krav Maga preaches. Stick with eye-gauge, neck chockes, and "dirty" little tricks to get you out of a fight. A good system is simple boxing, or kickboxing, with a little bit of knowledge of VITAL targets, such as eyes, neck, temple, groin, shin, knee joint. IMO.


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## andrewkw08 (14 Jun 2008)

Anyone know of Krav Maga? Is it available to the CF after BMQ? If so does anyone know where classes are held?


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## OttawaLoneWolf (24 Oct 2008)

I am a Krav Maga instructor. I learned it when I lived in Israel ( long story short ! fall in love with an Israeli girls  ) I am an armor reservist in Vancouver. If u want to know " true Israeli " Krav Maga school by ( International Krav Maga Federation, or Israel Krav Maga Assoication )   I am not sure how Israeli other federations are, effective maybe ! but not the same type of trainning I recieve when I was in Israel.


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## joonrooj (24 Oct 2008)

Boris Shiznitski said:
			
		

> Stick with eye-gauge, neck chockes, and "dirty" little tricks to get you out of a fight. A good system is simple boxing, or kickboxing, with a little bit of knowledge of VITAL targets, such as eyes, neck, temple, groin, shin, knee joint. IMO.


From what I understand, this is exactly what Krav Maga teaches, however, you do learn some of those fancy locks etc for when you are dealing with a single assailant and you have the advantage, excellent way to incapacitate someone without removing their eyes.
For some great info on this, obviously feel free to talk to a Krav instructor or w.e, I learned a lot from watching the History Channel's Human Weapon, they do shows on a lot of the world's martial arts, Krav was featured on one a while ago, and I was super impressed.


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