# New Flight Uniforms



## dimsum (18 May 2010)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> FWIW - aircrew boots are going to be brown.  Along with CADPAT two piece zoom suits.  They found a company in France that could produce
> CADPAT on appropriately static resistant material.



Are the aircrew boots going to be the dark brown ones with the holes on the uppers?  And I guess that solves the "one or two-piece flight suit" question that I've heard bandied around.  I saw a 2-piece AR CADPAT flight suit here and had to do a double-take.


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## niceasdrhuxtable (18 May 2010)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> FWIW - aircrew boots are going to be brown.  Along with CADPAT two piece zoom suits.  They found a company in France that could produce
> CADPAT on appropriately static resistant material.



Is it the same cut and style as the current two-piece suit? I can't imagine wearing anything more uncomfortable.


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## Eye In The Sky (18 May 2010)

Really?  I find with the 1 piece I am always f**king with my gitch and t shirt.  I wear the 2 piece and only that.

Not sure where this thread started but...I did see the email about the 2 piece only concept but I thought that was kinda retarded...what about the ejection seat folks, they are restricted to 1 piece aren't they??


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## SupersonicMax (18 May 2010)

We're never going to wear the 2-piece.


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## Eagle_Eye_View (19 May 2010)

I'm a 1 piece flight suit fan myself. I'm glad we're finally moving to brown boots. I wouldn't be surprise to see the fighter guys be the only ones wearing 1 piece in the future.


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## brian_k (19 May 2010)

Are CADPAT flight suits something that everyone wants?


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## Eye In The Sky (19 May 2010)

Speaking for myself...no.  Maybe the Tac Hel community...


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## Zoomie (19 May 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> We're never going to wear the 2-piece.



Actually Max - ALSE has determined that the two-piece is perfectly suitable for all aircrew - including fast air.

That being said, I don't believe that they have completely written off the idea of a one piece CADPAT suit too.  We'll just have to see.  Peerless garments should be cutting cloth as we type.


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## SupersonicMax (19 May 2010)

Zoomie:  It would be funny to see Harvard II/Tutor pilots ending up naked from the waist down if they eject.  Not to mention the buckle that would be right where the G-Suit inflates for the Hornet/Hawk aircrew.  I don't think it would be a popular choice for the Fighter Force, and considering the ALSE issues we have now, I don't think we need to deal with another problem at this point.  FOTEF is trialing the "new" flight suit and I can tell you it's not 2-piece.

Who came up with the idea that a 2-piece is suitable for ejection seat aircraft?


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## GenePool (24 Aug 2010)

TB said:
			
		

> I'm a 1 piece flight suit fan myself. I'm glad we're finally moving to brown boots. I wouldn't be surprise to see the fighter guys be the only ones wearing 1 piece in the future.



G'Day,

I'm new and I'll be training as an AEC.  From what I've heard speaking to AEC's is that their day to day uniform is the one peice flight suit and I've gotten the impression there are mixed feelings about.  I've heard hot, sticky, not breathable, itchy material.  

Any insight would be appreciated.

Cheers


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## Strike (24 Aug 2010)

GenePool said:
			
		

> Hot, sticky, not breathable, itchy material.



That sums it up pretty good.  The 2 piece isn't much better.


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## SupersonicMax (24 Aug 2010)

All the controllers I have met wore the regular CADPAT, unless they were themselve aircrew.


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## dimsum (25 Aug 2010)

I remember having a chat with one of the guys here who was an AEC back in Canada.  Apparently the only ones who wear flying suits are AWCs posted on AWACS; the rest are in CADPAT.


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## Jorkapp (25 Aug 2010)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I remember having a chat with one of the guys here who was an AEC back in Canada.  Apparently the only ones who wear flying suits are AWCs posted on AWACS; the rest are in CADPAT.



That's for the better anyway. CADPAT is much more comfortable than the flight suit.


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## Loachman (25 Aug 2010)

What? I wear my flying suit exclusively (one-piece), unless doing BFT or range-like things where combat clothing is a stated requirement. Less to put on, no buttons or belts, at least as comfortable...

As for "Hot, sticky, not breathable, itchy material": What exactly are you wearing? It's a light, breathable Nomex. You should have worn the old wool/poly flying suits that really did not breathe and smelled like wet dog when it rained.

Kids these days...


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## Good2Golf (25 Aug 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Zoomie:  It would be funny to see Harvard II/Tutor pilots ending up naked from the waist down if they eject.  Not to mention the buckle that would be right where the G-Suit inflates for the Hornet/Hawk aircrew.  I don't think it would be a popular choice for the Fighter Force, and considering the ALSE issues we have now, I don't think we need to deal with another problem at this point.  FOTEF is trialing the "new" flight suit and I can tell you it's not 2-piece.
> 
> Who came up with the idea that a 2-piece is suitable for ejection seat aircraft?



Before you slag it too hard, read the AETE Cat I ALSE report from the late 90's on the original 2-pc trials in e-seat aircraft.  The 2-pc actually performed better than the 1-pc...less 'ballooning' at 480+ kts ejection speed.  In fact, in one test on the sled/e.seat, the chute failed to open and the dummy (in 2-pc) slid along the tarmac and it was noted how well the 2-pc held up.

"Losing pants" is a hypothetical non-issue, unless of course, your torso harness fails...then I'd say you have bigger issues than not having any pants.  :nod:

In the end, if folks are not ordered to wear a particular suit, and they don't want to draw the kit, don't.  They shouldn't complain, however, about difficulty with the "#2 expulsion plan" at -40*C.  

Cheers
G2G


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## GenePool (25 Aug 2010)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I remember having a chat with one of the guys here who was an AEC back in Canada.  Apparently the only ones who wear flying suits are AWCs posted on AWACS; the rest are in CADPAT.



By the sounds of that, good.

How come I see CF members in Ottawa walking around in buildings and on the streets in flight suits like it's there daily uniform?

Just curious.


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## BernDawg (25 Aug 2010)

Shooting from the hip here, but, I believe that there are certain positions that are "flight suit" authorized, ie Wing Comander and Wing CWO regardless of trade, also Wing Surgeon I believe.  Perhaps someone more in the know can clarify as well.


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## dapaterson (25 Aug 2010)

Certain cublicle dwellers in Ottawa have declared their organziations to be "operational" and thus wear operational clothing (flight suits, CADPAT) as their day to day office wear.

Pointing out to them that waiting in line at Timmies isn't really "operational" makes Startop dwellers sad.


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## Good2Golf (25 Aug 2010)

Flying suits smelling (through very recent use) of JP-8 on the other hand, perhaps because you just parked your aircraft at Rockliffe and caught a cab for alast-minute meeting at NDHQ...now that is always an aviator's preferred mode of wearing the kit!  :nod:

Cheers
G2G


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## medic65726 (29 Aug 2010)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Really?  I find with the 1 piece I am always f**king with my gitch and t shirt.  I wear the 2 piece and only that.
> 
> Not sure where this thread started but...I did see the email about the 2 piece only concept but I thought that was kinda retarded...what about the ejection seat folks, they are restricted to 1 piece aren't they??


Tuck the t-shirt into the gitch. Problem solved. Although for proper flame retardant protection, should be wearing Nomex or natural fibre (cotton, wool or silk) long underwear (Not that I do during the summer, it is just too hot). Been wearing Civvie 1-piece Nomex flightsuits of similar cut to the CF ones for almost 10 years now and love them. Tried a shirt/pant option but the 1-peice is much more comfortable in hot weather as they are light and breathe. Two piece makes no sense to me as you get hot around the waist where the shirt/pants overlap and a belt, ughh. The 1-piece is much more comfortable for sitting in an aircraft all day in my opinion.
Agreed this is from a Civvie perspective, but I think it is just my 2-cents.


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## Good2Golf (29 Aug 2010)

If you're tac hel crew, in the field, having to dump...you appreciate the 2-piece.  You're hot anyway and drinking lots of water to stay hydrated, so you don't really notice the additional layer...and you're probably wearing a BV anyway where it's hot.  

Yes, CF ALSE (aircrew life support equipment) regulations require a natural or aramid fibre first layer underneath outer clothing, except by case-by-case operational exception.

Cheers
G2G


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## benny88 (8 Aug 2012)

I got an email today to go and get my new ACE gear the week of Aug 20-24. Some guys on my course are curious about it, and I know I've seen pictures but can't track any down at the moment. Does anyone have any pics?


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## dimsum (8 Aug 2012)

benny88 said:
			
		

> I got an email today to go and get my new ACE gear the week of Aug 20-24. Some guys on my course are curious about it, and I know I've seen pictures but can't track any down at the moment. Does anyone have any pics?



I don't, but would be very interested to see some as well.  What pictures have you seen?


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## benny88 (9 Aug 2012)

From what I can remember or have heard about them; different collar (more like USAF), pen holders on the arms, lowered waist, and a change in the tabs that adjust the flanks. And as for the outerwear, I'm told it's one jacket with a liner that zips in for winter vice a separate warm and cold weather jacket.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Aug 2012)

There were pics of them on the CEMS Project site before but it seems they've taken them down.  Maybe contacting someone on the PMO side would get some?


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Aug 2012)

CANAIRGEN (020/12) is out WRT ACE:

1. THE CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT MILLENNIUM STANDARD (CEMS) PROJECT INTRODUCES THE ADVANCED CREW ENSEMBLE (ACE). ACE IS A NEW SUITE OF EXTERNAL FLYING CLOTHING FOR AIRCREW

2. THE ACE CLOTHING IS COMPRISED OF FOUR ITEMS, INCLUDING A FLYERS JACKET, JACKET LINER, LINED BIB PANTS AND UNLINED BIB PANTS.  INDIVIDUAL ENTITLEMENT WILL BE TWO JACKETS AND TWO LINERS AND ONE EACH OF THE LINED AND UNLINED BIB PANTS 

3. THE FLYERS JACKET HAS A REMOVABLE LINER TO CATER TO SUMMER AND WINTER CONDITIONS. THE COLD/WET WEATHER BIB PANTS ARE INSULATED FOR WINTER WEAR WHEREAS THE WET WEATHER BIB PANTS ARE AN UNINSULATED SHELL MORE SUITABLE FOR SPRING/FALL CONDITIONS

4. ACE WILL BE AVAILABLE IN FIVE COLOURS: AIR FORCE GREEN (AFG) FOR MOST AIRCREW, CADPAT (TW) FOR TACTICAL AVIATION, CADPAT (AR) FOR DEPLOYED OPS IN ARID REGIONS, BLACK FOR AUTH PERS ONLY, AND INTERNATIONAL ORANGE FOR SEARCH AND RESCUE TECHNICIANS

5. REF PROVIDES OPERATIONAL AIRWORTHINESS CLEARANCE (OAC) FOR ALL ACE GARMENTS AS WELL AS FURTHER INFO ON ORDER OF WEAR, SIZING, AND CATALOGUING

6. INDIVIDUAL ENTITLEMENT IS IDENTIFIED IN SCALE D01-319AB FOR AIRCREW AND D01-320AA FOR SEARCH AND RESCUE TECHS 

7. ACE IS EXPECTED TO BE AVAILABLE AT UNIT CLOTHING STORES BY SEP


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## Zoomie (10 Aug 2012)

So no new zoom suit, just jackets.


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Aug 2012)

CEMS Protective Equipment info:

Protective Equipment
The Flyers' items will be the replacement for  the present day flying clothing (flying suit, flight jackets, etc.). These items will be fire retardant, anti-static, and anti-FOD in accordance with the demanding aircrew environment. They will be operational colour to provide the best protection for aircrew in most environments on the ground.

•Flyers' Jacket
•Flyers' Cold Weather Trousers
•Flyers' Warm WeatherCoveralls (1 and 2 Piece)
•Flyers' Cold Weather Trousers (in case you missed it the first time I guess...)

However, nothing is mentioned about them in the Schedule or Stock Codes pages.   :Tin-Foil-Hat:


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## trunkmonkey (30 Jan 2013)

personally, i'm not a fan of the two piece except in the field because its easier to attend to ones daily ablutions.  The one piece allows no ventilation between top and bottom, has too many layers bound by a belt and is distinctly uncomfortable. I'm a two piece fan, is like going to work in my jammies.

Can't think of anyone in in my unit who thinks a cadpat suit is a great idea, we're simply going to be mistaken for firefighters. most are saying they'll wear their current issue to rags, which we usually do anyways as our supply system doesn't cater to us air force folks. Actually, they don't cater to anyone....


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