# Moving is cheap?



## SupersonicMax (27 Mar 2006)

Moving is cheap for the CF?  It will cost them 35 000$ to move me from Kingston to Winnipeg next month...

Max


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## Springroll (27 Mar 2006)

It cost the CF purse $80,000 to move us from Oak Harbour, WA to Halifax, NS.....$20,000 of that was just us driving out both vehicles and we had all three kids with us, and the 2 dogs. That does not include the extras we were entitled to by moving from a "rent only" location back into Canada.


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## Scott (28 Mar 2006)

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. The numbers seem inflated and out of proportion (This is coming from a guy who has done the round trip of Canada) and I'd like to see some supporting links to these claims.

When I travelled east last year the ENTIRE DRIVE cost me 1500 bucks for two people. That included hotels every night (not dives either), 3 good meals a day, gas, booze. My moving company, with enough furniture to fill an 1800 sq ft house cost me $5500. Pardon me if my numbers don't seem to jive with everyone else's.

I know what the Federal Gov't pays back for moving and it does not compare with the claims people are making here. I think I got .55 cents a km for my truck and was allowed to claim all meals and hotels with receipts. I could also claim the entire amount of the moving company. Those numbers do not compare with what has been posted here.

Edited to add: I am not calling BS on anyone. I am saying that, having done this myself a couple of times, that I cannot believe that people are claiming these ridiculous amounts. I would like to see some proof.


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

Scott said:
			
		

> I think I got .55 cents a km for my truck and was allowed to claim all meals and hotels with receipts.



I can't post links, but I will type out some of the information.
Our move took place July and August 2004

We were entitled to $50/day/adult and $25/day/child for food= $175/day. 
7 days of our trip was in the US, 6 days were in Canada = $4431.00 in just food alone.
We also spent 10 days in hotel when we arrived at location, and with food at the same rate, that totalled $1750.
Grand total in food only $6171.00

For hotel, we were entitled to $300 per night multiplied by 23days = $6900
Mileage was at .42/km x 6100km x 2 vehicles = $5124
Incidentals was $650

Grand Total $18,844

We were not responsible for arranging the move of our F&E, and it was on the road for 23 days and was costly.
Only items we had to present receipts for was hotel.

I am not going to disclose any of the other money we were entitled to as it will not pertain to anyone here unless they have been posted outside of Canada for 24 months or longer.

**edited to add: Scott, how was your moving company only $5500? Where did you move from and to where?
We had enough furniture to furnish a 3600sq ft home.


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## Scott (28 Mar 2006)

Grande Prairie, AB to just outside Halifax, NS for about 5500 km and it did indeed come out to 5500 bucks, give or take a few Loonies. The move was this time last year and we did get a bit of a break because of my fire service, the same break they give to CF members. I would not kid about what I have claimed with Revenue Canada, I have been audited for the last 5 years, this being the first one they haven't, and don't particularly enjoy it.

Why are you spending Gov't money on hotels when you arrive? There was zero provision for this under Revenue Canada, IIRC. Was this a CF sponsored move?

Incidentals?


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

Scott:

My experience has been that you are entitled to hotel accommodations until your F&E arrive.  Springroll indicated that it took 23 days for her F&E to arrive and that she received 23 days hotel... although 23 days seems like a tremendously long time... I don't think it took me that long to get my stuff back from Lahr!


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

Scott said:
			
		

> Grande Prairie, AB to just outside Halifax, NS for about 5500 km and it did indeed come out to 5500 bucks, give or take a few Loonies. The move was this time last year and we did get a bit of a break because of my fire service, the same break they give to CF members. I would not kid about what I have claimed with Revenue Canada, I have been audited for the last 5 years, this being the first one they haven't, and don't particularly enjoy it.
> 
> Why are you spending Gov't money on hotels when you arrive? There was zero provision for this under Revenue Canada, IIRC. Was this a CF sponsored move?
> 
> Incidentals?



Well the thread is called "Moving in the CF", so I wouldn't have posted the information I did unless it pertained to this particular thread.
CF sponsored move for us. We were posted back to Canada at the end of his NATO posting, as is usually done. As for why we were spending money on hotels when we got to location, house was not in our possession yet, so where else would we live?? We never had to arrange for our movers...IRPP did that for us. All we had to do was get three estimates and send them on through to IRPP with our recommendation on who we would like, they ultimately chose.

Incidental money is for those little things that you are unable to move through the moving company like your bbq propane tanks, cleaners etc


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> Scott:
> 
> My experience has been that you are entitled to hotel accommodations until your F&E arrive.  Springroll indicated that it took 23 days for her F&E to arrive and that she received 23 days hotel... although 23 days seems like a tremendously long time... I don't think it took me that long to get my stuff back from Lahr!




13 days travel to location, 10 days at location before F&E arrived.


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## Scott (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> Scott:
> 
> My experience has been that you are entitled to hotel accommodations until your F&E arrive.  Springroll indicated that it took 23 days for her F&E to arrive and that she received 23 days hotel... although 23 days seems like a tremendously long time... I don't think it took me that long to get my stuff back from Lahr!



Thanks for that info, that's what I was looking for. 23 days isn't long at all. Mine took 36.



			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> Well the thread is called "Moving in the CF", so I wouldn't have posted the information I did unless it pertained to this particular thread.
> CF sponsored move for us.



Nooooooooo!!  : Thanks for the update. I was asking questions, that is allowed on these boards. Thanks for pointing out the obvious for me though.



> We were posted back to Canada at the end of his NATO posting, as is usually done. As for why we were spending money on hotels when we got to location, house was not in our possession yet, so where else would we live??



Yeah, I could gather very easily that there would be nowhere else to live, I didn't know that you didn't have possession of your house though. No need to add the question at the end. All you're missing is someone wagging their finger and tapping their toe. Tone via type, it's getting a workout here.



> Incidental money is for those little things that you are unable to move through the moving company like your bbq propane tanks, cleaners etc



Thank you.


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

lol....I just re-read my post and it does come across testy, doesn't it...

sorry, it wasn't meant to be.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> *Incidental* money is for those little things that you are unable to move through the moving company like your bbq propane tanks, cleaners etc



Nope......

Propane tank, cleaning and things the mover's cant take are reimbursed by providing the supporting recepits when meeting IRP at destination for your claim.  Incidental money is provided as a per diem ( in addition to the daily meal rate) and received with your advance at origin ( if you take one).


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Nope......
> 
> Propane tank, cleaning and things the mover's cant take are reimbursed by providing the supporting recepits when meeting IRP at destination for your claim.  Incidental money is provided as a per diem ( in addition to the daily meal rate) and received with your advance at origin ( if you take one).



Are you thinking the daily incidental rate of $17/day?
IRPP in Colorado Springs told us that the lump sum of $650 was for the replacement of propane tanks, blinds, cleaning supplies and such that would need to be replaced. It even says so on our financial worksheet.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> Are you thinking the daily incidental rate of $17/day?
> IRPP in Colorado Springs told us that the *lump sum of $650 * was for the replacement of propane tanks, blinds, cleaning supplies and such that would need to be replaced. It even says so on our financial worksheet.



$650 is your *moving grant * ( what we used to call the curtains and blinds allowance).  It does not cover things like cleaners and propane tanks.  You require recepts for those and they will reimburse those.  How do i know this ? I've done five freakin times...lol




			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> Are you thinking the daily incidental rate of $17/day?



Thats what i thought you were refering to when you said "incidental money".........the right terminology would get your point across better

I just looked at my claim for last september's move.........yup there it is, one propane tank.........the move to Greenwood.....yup....one propane tank........


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

Maybe the terms changed then since our move was in 2004, but when we moved in 2001 I don't recall us ever getting the $650. We had to turn over receipts for the tanks, cleaners etc.

I am looking at the worksheet and it says Non-accountable Incidentals $650.
If you would like, I can scan it so you can see what it says for yourself?


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

"I am looking at the worksheet and it says Non-accountable Incidentals $650."

Commonly known as the moving grant and has been used your DECADES to replace window dressings etc.

By the way, why is it that EVERY *&^#($ PMQ in Canada has different sized windows?  At one time in my life, I had about 20 different sets of curtains -- none of which could be used in the most recent PMQ!


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> Maybe the terms changed then since our move was in 2004, but when we moved in 2001 I don't recall us ever getting the $650. We had to turn over receipts for the tanks, cleaners etc.
> 
> I am looking at the worksheet and it says Non-accountable Incidentals $650.
> If you would like, I can scan it so you can see what it says for yourself?



No i dont need you to scan it for me...... it was called a moving grant when i moved to Edmonton in 97, It was called a moving grant when i moved to gagetown in 01, i dont remember what it was when i moved to Greenwood in 05 but it say "moving Grant" for the move here in 05.  Iregardless it does not cover propane tanks and cleaning of your residence.

I've been getting $650 moving grant since my first move in 1997.  Back then you had to have a certain amount of weight to get 650 and if you had less it was about $200.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> By the way, why is it that EVERY *&^#($ PMQ in Canada has different sized windows?  At one time in my life, I had about 20 different sets of curtains -- none of which could be used in the most recent PMQ!



keeps you on your toes and builds character..... ;D


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

I can personally attest to it being referred to as a moving grant back as far as 1986.

I can remember going curtain shopping with my mother in the mid 70s with the 'moving grant'.


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## monika (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> By the way, why is it that EVERY *&^#($ PMQ in Canada has different sized windows?




that's easy. For all the different sized soap boxes!


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

Ahhhhh...I get it now.  Well it worked.  I am quite the character after all!


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> I can personally attest to it being referred to as a moving grant back as far as 1986.
> 
> I can remember going curtain shopping with my mother in the mid 70s with the 'moving grant'.



Same here.  I've been moving with the military since i was born........Started out in Lahr in 1976



			
				TMM said:
			
		

> that's easy. For all the different sized soap boxes!



Never even thought of that one...... ;D


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

TMM said:
			
		

> that's easy. For all the different sized soap boxes!




 :rofl:

That is too funny. All my life,  I thought that was a myth.... until I moved to Pet.


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Iregardless it does not cover propane tanks and cleaning of your residence.



I didn't mean cleaning the residence...that came out of a different envelope. I was talking replacement of cleaning supplies and the like. 

I think things may be different with us since we were moving from the US back to Canada...hubby recalls being told it was for propane tanks and such too.

Regardless, now people have an idea of how expensive it is for the CF to move people.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> I didn't mean cleaning the residence...that came out of a different envelope. I was talking replacement of cleaning supplies and the like.



Ok, that clears that up



			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> I think things may be different with us since we were moving from the US back to Canada...hubby recalls being told it was for propane tanks and such too.



That is in fact not the case.  You do know that IRP gets a percentage of the money they save DND on every move right ?  So if they screw you out of you entitlements by giving you wrong information.........



			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> IRegardless, now people have an idea of how expensive it is for the CF to move people.



Yes and we have you extensive knowlege and expertise to thank for that   :


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

Over all of my postings, I don't recall ever getting an allowance for the cleaning of the PMQ.  I may have missed it but I think that is unlikely.

Typically, we did it ourselves so we didn't have to pay somebody else.  In fact, we were one of a few that  passed the Lahr Marchout on the first attempt during our APS!


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> Over all of my postings, I don't recall ever getting an allowance for the cleaning of the PMQ.  I may have missed it but I think that is unlikely.



It in fact exists.  Did it back in petawawa in 1997.  With a receipt, you can claim it on your moving claim, max is $100.  And on a related note... almost everyone that cleans PMQs for money charges exactly $100  ;D


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

Cool.  But I have never seen a marchout cleaning that cost only $100.  I assume you didn't have to provide receipts?  Given the dollar value,  would it be fair to assume that it was to compensate for the cost of cleaning supplies etc rather than paying for a marchout cleaning?  (Obviously what you do with it is up to the individual)


Hmmm... did you modify your last post??? Ignore my above postings accordingly!  I didn't notice the portion referring to the average cost charged!


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> Cool.  But I have never seen a marchout cleaning that cost only $100.  I assume you didn't have to provide receipts?  Given the dollar value,  would it be fair to assume that it was to compensate for the cost of cleaning supplies etc rather than paying for a marchout cleaning?  (Obviously what you do with it is up to the individual)
> 
> 
> Hmmm... did you modify your last post??? Ignore my above postings accordingly!  I didn't notice the portion referring to the average cost charged!



You do have to rpovide a receipt.  I found CFHA to be very agreeable when they recognized the name of the person you hired to clean your PMQ ( or in my case , seen her do it) but i am sure not everyone is that lucky.


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Mar 2006)

It was always standard when you were looking for your marchout cleaner to call housing and ask if they had anyone to recommend. It guaranteed you an easy time of your marchout, vice all the bullshit and heartache they'd give you if you did it yourself. It just wasn't (isn't?) worth the time and energy.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

Springroll,

my financial workshhet for the move to Greenwood does state " non-acountable incidental allowance" therefore i will give you that.

However, make certain that you are clear in your terminology in order to avoid confusion.  if you had used the term "moving grant", i would have know right away what you were refering to, even though you were still wrong in the information you gave.  Everyone thats been in the military since at least last week knows "moving grant"

Oh yeah, sorry, you're not in are you 



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> It was always standard when you were looking for your marchout cleaner to call housing and ask if they had anyone to recommend. It guaranteed you an easy time of your marchout, vice all the bullshit and heartache they'd give you if you did it yourself. It just wasn't (isn't?) worth the time and energy.



Precisely


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

I can't recall ever hiring a cleaner.  Although I don't remember cleaning in Pet so we might have had someone come in then.  I remember cleaning for all of the other postings because we inevitably had a cleaning party with neighbours and friends, loud music and a few wobbly pops!  I have some GREAT memories of those days!!


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Yes and we have you extensive knowlege and expertise to thank for that   :



We may not have moved lots, but it still qualify's as experience.
I guess you would take my husband's moving experience over mine, even though I was also involved in it... :

I'll get him to log in.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> We may not have moved lots, but it still qualify's as *experience*.



I said "expertise" but essentilay, ok


> I guess you would take my husband's moving experience over mine, even though I was also involved in it... :


Yes i would......at least more than yours....


> I'll get him to log in.


You go ahead and do that, i'll take talking to him over you everyday of the week and twice on sundays.


[/quote]


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## Springroll (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> I can't recall ever hiring a cleaner.  Although I don't remember cleaning in Pet so we might have had someone come in then.  I remember cleaning for all of the other postings because we inevitably had a cleaning party with neighbours and friends, loud music and a few wobbly pops!  I have some GREAT memories of those days!!



We hired a cleaner in the US that guaranteed their work 100%. Cost us a bunch out of our own pocket(some covered by IRPP), but it was well worth not having the hassle of having to worry about it.


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## Pte.Shrubb (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> Scott:
> 
> My experience has been that you are entitled to hotel accommodations until your F&E arrive.  Springroll indicated that it took 23 days for her F&E to arrive and that she received 23 days hotel... although 23 days seems like a tremendously long time... I don't think it took me that long to get my stuff back from Lahr!



The CF paid for the hotel accomodations for almost a month for my dad while he was waiting for his house to be ready to be moved into.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> We hired a cleaner in the US that guaranteed their work 100%. Cost us a bunch out of our own pocket(some covered by IRPP), but it was well worth not having the hassle of having to worry about it.


I hate cleaning......I agree that paying avoids a huge hassle, i mean time IS money, why spend it cleaning right ?



			
				Pte.Shrubb said:
			
		

> The CF paid for the hotel accomodations for almost a month for my dad while he was waiting for his house to be ready to be moved into.



Yup, i spent 21 days in hotels on my last move......


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## Squid278 (28 Mar 2006)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> I said "expertise" but essentilay, okYes i would......at least more than yours....You go ahead and do that, i'll take talking to him over you everyday of the week and twice on sundays.



The CAN$650.00 is called a "non-accountable incidental allowance".  The CAN$650.00 is for blinds, curtains, cleaning supplies, BBQ tanks, and other things that you were not able to move with you.  It is under Chapter 3, Annex "B", Schedule 5 of the "Departure from CDLS(W)" publication.  It lists the items that are non-admisaible, and those are the items that the CAN$650.00 is to be used for.  

As for the attitude you are displaying to Springroll.  Regardless of her being my spouse, you are a member of the Canadian Armed Forces, and a MCpl on top of that.  You of all people should know that your attitude and demeanor reflects upon the CF.  We are not to be talking to anyone (civilian or serving) rudely or with disdain.  It displays a lack of character, and leadership.  It also portrays badly on the CF, Army.ca, and on your rank and trade.


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## aesop081 (28 Mar 2006)

Squid278 said:
			
		

> The CAN$650.00 is called a "non-accountable incidental allowance".  The CAN$650.00 is for blinds, curtains, cleaning supplies, BBQ tanks, and other things that you were not able to move with you.  It is under Chapter 3, Annex "B", Schedule 5 of the "Departure from CDLS(W)" publication.  It lists the items that are non-admisaible, and those are the items that the CAN$650.00 is to be used for.



Excellent. Thanks for pointing that out.  Not afraid to admit i didnt know that for *OUTCAN* postings.


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## scoutfinch (28 Mar 2006)

I apologize in advance for this threadjack but I can not hold it in any longer so here it goes and then I will respectfully bow out of the thread:

To be perfectly frank, I CANNOT imagine calling in my spouse to speak on my behalf either IRL or on the internet.

Secondly, Springroll has been equally flippant here with people on this thread.  Perhaps you should review some of her commentary before castigating others for behaviour that she has demonstrated herself.

Springroll has a reputation for a lack of veracity in her posts.  She has created the conditions through her own behaviour whereby people scrutinize every word she says.


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## Squid278 (28 Mar 2006)

scoutfinch said:
			
		

> I apologize in advance for this threadjack but I can not hold it in any longer so here it goes and then I will respectfully bow out of the thread:
> 
> To be perfectly frank, I CANNOT imagine calling in my spouse to speak on my behalf either IRL or on the internet.
> 
> ...



I participated at her request because "her word" was not good enough for some of the people here.  It is my opinion and observation, that she is being treated differently and poorly, because she is not in the CF.  She has been "on guard" since 1998, and deserves as much respect as a serving member.  In regards to the moving grant, if she (or anyone) has made a statement or question that you are not sure of, ask them to clarify.  Perhaps the term "moving grant" is not used in all areas.  Therefore, not everyone will know it.  I have been in for almost 10 years now, and have never heard that term.

I was not castigating (it means to criticize severely) aesop081, I was merely pointing out that the attitude that he was displaying was not appropriate.  This rule goes for myself and for Springroll.  No one on this board should be rude or arrogant to another.  If I were to castigate someone, I would take it in the appropriate manner and message them privately.  The unwritten rule is "Praise in public, counsel in private".  

And next time, please don't use big words.  I had a heck of a time looking for them in the dictionary to find their meaning.


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## old medic (28 Mar 2006)

This thread has now been split off from the original Moving in CF thread.
The original was a stickied thread for people to ask questions in.  It would
be inappropriate to leave it locked for future questions.


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## Franko (29 Mar 2006)

Anyone jumping in here just to get a quick jab in at Springroll will be dealt with.



			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> It cost the CF purse $80,000 to move us from Oak Harbour, WA to Halifax, NS.....$20,000 of that was just us driving out both vehicles and we had all three kids with us, and the 2 dogs. That does not include the extras we were entitled to by moving from a "rent only" location back into Canada.





> We were entitled to $50/day/adult and $25/day/child for food= $175/day.
> 7 days of our trip was in the US, 6 days were in Canada = $4431.00 in just food alone.
> We also spent 10 days in hotel when we arrived at location, and with food at the same rate, that totalled $1750.
> Grand total in food only $6171.00
> ...



Springroll,

I'm really trying to figure out how you came up with a total of $80,000 for your move...I really am.

Now I haven't been posted outside of Canada...but I have been posted before, as have others here. I do know some people that have been posted from Colorado to Ontario, they're even saying that is a bit on the high side....mind you their eyes were as big a pizza pies    

My last posting in 2001 cost the tax payer approx $19,700...from Gagetown, NB to Petawawa Ont....and yes, me and the frau have ALOT of furnature...enough for a 50 foot trailer to be filled. Mind you I admit, no kids and no pets at the time.

Had the basic crap that goes along with a move...new tank for BBQ, drapes and other nonsense that drove me batty.

Now I am trying to figure out the gap of $61,156....there is no way a moving company can charge that much, as far as I know, even if they placed it into storage for a bit.

My in-laws have moved from NB to Prince George BC (approx 2 years ago) and they had their house in storage for a month....and their total was only $32,000 ish.



Not trying to incite a lynch mob here either...just trying to understand how IRPP came up with that amount.    

Regards


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## AirForceWife (30 Mar 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Moving is cheap for the CF?  It will cost them 35 000$ to move me from Kingston to Winnipeg next month...
> 
> Max



Wow, are you sure? Two years ago we were posted from Kingston to Winnipeg,  and I remember it not costing not even half of that amount for our family


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## SupersonicMax (30 Mar 2006)

At least, this is what RP predicted with their spreadsheet... With the animals, house hunting trip, movers, packers, shipping the car, all the allowances, hotel, food, etc, this is the number they came with.  I was also surprised about this number but what the hell, this isn't my money...


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## Kat Stevens (30 Mar 2006)

When I was posted back from Lahr to Chilliwack in 93 with a wife and 4 kids, I believe the total bill was around $42K, all in.  Prices must have really shot up..


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## belka (1 Apr 2006)

I was going to start a new topic, but i'll just ask here.

I'm getting posted to Cold Lake soon, in June actually, from Borden. What are my options in regards to travel? 

My first choice would be to fly to there and CMTT my belongings and my Car (do they even take vehicles)? I don't want to drive all that distance and rack-up the milage, besides, the praries are boring.

Is there anywhere I can find more info into this matter? Thanks.


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## aesop081 (1 Apr 2006)

jutes said:
			
		

> I was going to start a new topic, but i'll just ask here.
> 
> I'm getting posted to Cold Lake soon, in June actually, from Borden. What are my options in regards to travel?
> 
> ...



You will be directed to IRP when the time comes to handle your move.  CMTT has nothing to do with it.


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