# DEO Health Care Admin Officer



## farley84 (17 Apr 2011)

Good day,

I did an updated interview with the RC a few weeks ago for Air Force Health Care Admin Officer and I am told that right now because i already have a degree in business my BBA they are seeing how much time they can "shave off" after basic training. My understanding is that this does not happen if you are not going to be hired. So my question is how long does this assessment usually take?

Thank you


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## SheRa011 (13 Jul 2011)

i'm curious...what's the outcome?  what are you doing now?  how are you doing?


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## aesop081 (13 Jul 2011)

SheRa011 said:
			
		

> i'm curious...what's the outcome?  what are you doing now?  how are you doing?



The OP does not seem to be a registered member her anymore so i wouldn't hold my breath for an answer.


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## Eastcoaster03 (13 Jul 2011)

All I can say is i'm pretty sure there were 8 positions in the country and 1 which was already filled and im not sure if that was from the 8 or not. They were not picking till august, so he might still be waiting. I think there were around 50+ people as of a few weeks ago going for the positions.


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## cnobbs84 (14 Jul 2011)

Farley84 was mine... however all my social media got hacked so I changed it. I am currently merit listed because the national selection board does not meet until August 12th. So just like everyone else I am playing the waiting game. And correct there are only 8 positions open nationwide.


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## cnobbs84 (14 Jul 2011)

Eastcoaster03 said:
			
		

> All I can say is i'm pretty sure there were 8 positions in the country and 1 which was already filled and im not sure if that was from the 8 or not. They were not picking till august, so he might still be waiting. I think there were around 50+ people as of a few weeks ago going for the positions.



Eastcoaster03 are you a recruiter? If so I don't like the look of my chances lol.


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## SheRa011 (14 Jul 2011)

as of Jul 13, the national recruiting centre told me there aren't any openings for HCA.  We will have to wait until next year's intake numbers.


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## cnobbs84 (14 Jul 2011)

SheRa011 said:
			
		

> as of Jul 13, the national recruiting centre told me there aren't any openings for HCA.  We will have to wait until next year's intake numbers.



That is most likely correct. My understanding is that CFRC have the maximum amount of applications for this year because the board makes selections this August 12th. So I won't know about my file until at least then, unless I get a call about my other 2 trade options.


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## Eastcoaster03 (14 Jul 2011)

cnobbs84 said:
			
		

> That is most likely correct. My understanding is that CFRC have the maximum amount of applications for this year because the board makes selections this August 12th. So I won't know about my file until at least then, unless I get a call about my other 2 trade options.



That is exactly what I was thinking. They might have stopped taking in applications since they wouldn't have time to process etc. Ah well if anyone else calls their recruiting center let us know what they say, I will probably be calling early next week just to touch base.

As for the previous question... I just asked a lot of questions and got a lot of info when I was applying. That's why I had a good idea of the number of slots opened and people applying etc. Just tried to find out everything I could to weigh my chances since it was only that and Log O that I wanted to apply for.


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## cnobbs84 (14 Jul 2011)

I originally wanted LOGO but they won't be hiring for a few years so I am told. If for whatever reason I am not selected for HCA Armored or Inf my CFRC wants to put me thru for NCM


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## Eastcoaster03 (14 Jul 2011)

cnobbs84 said:
			
		

> I originally wanted LOGO but they won't be hiring for a few years so I am told. If for whatever reason I am not selected for HCA Armored or Inf my CFRC wants to put me thru for NCM




Yeah it sucks that Log O isn't opening anytime soon because I was looking at a Navy Log O... travel etc would have been cool and the chance of moving back to the east coast was a benefit but oh well. HCA was my original choice before I decided I became interest in the Navy Logo anyway.


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## AmmoTech90 (14 Jul 2011)

It's Log O not LOGO which is a design or a progamming language.


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## PMedMoe (14 Jul 2011)

AmmoTech90 said:
			
		

> It's Log O not LOGO which is a design or a progamming language.



Or a "graphic mark or emblem commonly used by commercial enterprises, organizations and even individuals to aid and promote instant public recognition".


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## cnobbs84 (14 Jul 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Or a "graphic mark or emblem commonly used by commercial enterprises, organizations and even individuals to aid and promote instant public recognition".



My bad... lol


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## Eastcoaster03 (15 Jul 2011)

Ha my bad I tend to work on computers too much.


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## MJP (15 Jul 2011)

AmmoTech90 said:
			
		

> It's Log O not LOGO which is a design or a progamming language.



Meh I have limited experience in the Logistics officer world but generally I have found that half the Log Officers I work with use one way with the other half using the other way.  It seems to me that no one really has a heart ache about the abbreviation either way.  It usually however isn't all caps but rather LogO.


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## AERO2012 (15 Jul 2011)

Hello all from Montreal,

I am currently wrapping up my Ph.D. thesis in the field of Logistics and Operations Management, and I would like to share with you my definition of a world class logistics model. According to US Council of logistics Management (Michigan State University), the Logistics model has its foundation in four key concepts:

1) Competency - Positioning: The selection of strategic and structural approaches to guide operations (networks design and optimization).

2) Competency - integration: The establishment of what to do and how to do it creatively within the context of the so-called Supply Chain Unification.

3) Competency - Agility: The achievement and retention of competitiveness and customer success.

4) Competency - Measurement: The internal and external monitoring of operations through IT, for instance.


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## Blackadder1916 (15 Jul 2011)

AERO2012 said:
			
		

> Hello all from Montreal,
> 
> I am currently wrapping up my Ph.D. thesis in the field of Logistics and Operations Management, and I would like to share with you my definition of a world class logistics model. . . . . . .



Huh? Relevance?

I guess this is a perfect example that having an advanced degree is no guarantee that one has gained any greater insight of how things work.


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## ballz (15 Jul 2011)

AERO2012 said:
			
		

> 1) Competency - Positioning: The selection of strategic and structural approaches to guide operations (networks design and optimization).
> 
> 2) Competency - integration: The establishment of what to do and how to do it creatively within the context of the so-called Supply Chain Unification.
> 
> ...



Excellent work, I can see it on a Powerpoint slide at MUN in the near future. More meaningless dribble of definitions that I will have to memorize for a MC exam whilst still learning nothing.


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## AERO2012 (15 Jul 2011)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Huh? Relevance?
> 
> I guess this is a perfect example that having an advanced degree is no guarantee that one has gained any greater insight of how things work.



Indeed, having and advanced degree is no guarantee that one has gained any greater insight of how *BAD* things/practices work.


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## Ayrsayle (15 Jul 2011)

AERO2012 said:
			
		

> Indeed, having and advanced degree is no guarantee that one has gained any greater insight of how *BAD* things/practices work.



As I mentioned to you in a PM - This is not the proper location to be debating the merits/flaws of your mentioned Model. If you want a genuine discussion regarding it's merits or what have you, you should make a separate topic for its discussion. 

To be honest, I'm not even entirely sure what you are defining as "BAD" - but I do know it has very little to do with being a DEO Health Admin Officer.

May we get back on topic?


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## MedCorps (15 Jul 2011)

My recommendation to HCA applicants is that they should work on making their application as strong as possible, ideally focused on health care. Spots will continue to be very limited for DEO applicants pending some drastic organizational change. 

The attrition rate (release and VOT to HSO) in the MOSID over the past five years has been apx 10 per year. It is forecasted  for FY 12/13 that the intake program for HCA is targeting intake at historical attrition plus 30%.  The MOSID is also quite healthy in terms of current strength and very "young" in nature with 91% of officers having ten or less years of service. Unless the historical attrition rates are higher next FY or subsided applications are lower then it will be quite difficult to get a ROTP / DEO / UTPNCM spot in this MOSID.  

I hope that is of some interest.  I still encourage you to apply to the Canadian Forces Medical Service through the CFRC if you think that you can make a contribution to the health care of CF members.  

MC


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## Gunner98 (16 Jul 2011)

MedCorps said:
			
		

> I still encourage you to apply to the Canadian Forces Medical Service Health Services through the CFRC if you think that you can make a contribution to the health care of CF members.
> MC



Fixed that for you MC


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## MedCorps (16 Jul 2011)

I belong to the Canadian Forces Medical Service (CFMS), the Medical Branch. It is the cap badge that we wear proudly, the title on our slip on, and the traditions that we perpetuate from those that have provided medical care to service members before us.

I co-exist with the Dental Branch (CFDS), the public service, and other branch enablers in order to serve CF members as the unified Canadian Forces Health Service (CFHS).  

The CFHS is an organization, a formation, a command and care delivery model, nothing else. 

The CFMS is my corps, my pride, and my history.  It is who I belong.  

Don't believe the propaganda. 

MC


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## cnobbs84 (16 Jul 2011)

MedCorps said:
			
		

> My recommendation to HCA applicants is that they should work on making their application as strong as possible, ideally focused on health care. Spots will continue to be very limited for DEO applicants pending some drastic organizational change.
> 
> The attrition rate (release and VOT to HSO) in the MOSID over the past five years has been apx 10 per year. It is forecasted  for FY 12/13 that the intake program for HCA is targeting intake at historical attrition plus 30%.  The MOSID is also quite healthy in terms of current strength and very "young" in nature with 91% of officers having ten or less years of service. Unless the historical attrition rates are higher next FY or subsided applications are lower then it will be quite difficult to get a ROTP / DEO / UTPNCM spot in this MOSID.
> 
> ...



All my College and University education is all business. Hopefully that helps me out, August 12th is the big day :S


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## Gunner98 (16 Jul 2011)

Resisting change are we?  http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pub/hist/an-1-eng.asp

In 1995, the Canadian Forces Medical and Dental Service were united under the Surgeon General who later became the Chief Health Services (CHS).

1999  - With the establishment of the Director General Health Services as head of the Canadian Forces Health Services (medical and dental), the Surgeon General became responsible for medical clinical issues while the Deputy Chief of Staff, Dental Service, retained his responsibilities for dental issues.


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## Eastcoaster03 (20 Jul 2011)

Anxiously waiting.... nervous.. lots of competition...

I wonder if I call would they be able to tell me where I stand in the list as far as the overall rating from out Cfat, Interview and application. Anyone know if they might be able to provide where you stand in the list? Only reason I ask is because if your not in the top XXX then you'll know your not in for this round of picking.


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## Ayrsayle (20 Jul 2011)

I totally feel for you - I felt (and feel) very much the same. My guess (which seems fairly accurate based on my conversations with recruiters, etc) is that by revealing where you sit on the list, you will make choices differently then if you were selected without such knowledge.

This is likely why they tell you not to do anything differently with your life while you are waiting - to go about your previous plans and make your decision when/if you get the phone call.

Consider this - You have an excellent CFAT score, aced your interview, etc. They tell you all these things, assure you that you are "top of the list" - then get a call regarding your credit check or security check and something is not as good as it previously looked. Not only have they gotten your hopes up but it is also plausible that by saying you were in such a position you might have quit your job and made plans to leave (etc). At best this result would likely leave you feeling cheated and your career undermined by the Canadian Forces (a negative result for public opinion, if nothing else) - at worst you might construe such information as a promise of employment which gets into (potentially) sticky legal issues.

I am sure that occasionally they let you know these details or hint on occasion regarding your suitability - but as far as revealing your odds of selection the best they can say is "you have a good chance", not "you did better then everyone else, here is how". Can't stop them from being human and wanting to give you an answer, but revealing your CFAT score would likely give you grounds to feel "cheated" if you were not selected, or oppositely feel the test didn't do you justice (if you had a poor score). 

Again, I do not know the official policy - a recruiter's comments would be most welcome if I am in err. I believe I am not far from the mark however. I'd love to know my scores, etc as well - but after thinking about it I am starting to get a much better idea of why they keep such information to themselves.

Edited for grammar and clarity


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## Eastcoaster03 (20 Jul 2011)

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> I totally feel for you - I felt (and feel) very much the same. My guess (which seems fairly accurate based on my conversations with recruiters, etc) is that by revealing where you sit on the list, you will make choices differently then if you were selected without such knowledge.
> 
> This is likely why they tell you not to do anything differently with your life while you are waiting - to go about your previous plans and make your decision when/if you get the phone call.
> 
> ...



Ha yeah... I did have an idea of where I stood as of my interview. Did extremely well on the Cfat supposedly even though I forgot to fill in an answer in the spatial (stupid me). I know as of my final interview I had a really good shot but also there were a lot of people applying. My only wonder if how many people still need to do the interview etc after I did mine. Cfat was probably my biggest strength or at least my X factor that could keep me in the top spots on the list.

Oh the anticipation. Anyone have an idea if they pick say they 12th of August how long after would they let you know? I remember them saying something about between the 12th or 19th but I could be making that part up in my head.


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## cnobbs84 (20 Jul 2011)

Eastcoaster03 said:
			
		

> Ha yeah... I did have an idea of where I stood as of my interview. Did extremely well on the Cfat supposedly even though I forgot to fill in an answer in the spatial (stupid me). I know as of my final interview I had a really good shot but also there were a lot of people applying. My only wonder if how many people still need to do the interview etc after I did mine. Cfat was probably my biggest strength or at least my X factor that could keep me in the top spots on the list.
> 
> Oh the anticipation. Anyone have an idea if they pick say they 12th of August how long after would they let you know? I remember them saying something about between the 12th or 19th but I could be making that part up in my head.



My CFRC told me that i should know by the 13th for HCA if I don't get selected they will have me in the next day for Supply Tech


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## Eastcoaster03 (21 Jul 2011)

cnobbs84 said:
			
		

> My CFRC told me that i should know by the 13th for HCA if I don't get selected they will have me in the next day for Supply Tech



Yeah checked the calender and Aug 12th is a Friday. So I guess if they don't work weekends you prob will find out Monday the 15th.


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## cnobbs84 (13 Aug 2011)

cnobbs84 said:
			
		

> All my College and University education is all business. Hopefully that helps me out, August 12th is the big day :S



So selection started on Friday... and now the wait is killing me!!


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## Staff Weenie (13 Aug 2011)

I'm still curious as to why any of these posters want to be an HCA?

Having been an HCA for 19 yrs now, I can tell you with absolute certainty that having a Business degree means nothing. Having an MA in any sort of health care management field means jack. Other than points on a merit board, it doesn't equate to the most important aspects of our role - ensuring that our troops get the absolute best care possible. Health care requires a passion, not 'it was my second choice'.

If you're going HCA to try and pad a resume and get a sweet job in a civy hospital a few years from now - please go elsewhere, we don't need you. We have enough self-centred jackasses in the branch as it is. I've seen far too many pathetic excuses for Officers over the last several years - telling me how they have this course, or that course, and now they know everything.

If you're willing to do whatever it takes, to be part of a team effort, delivering the best care possible, come on in!


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## medicineman (13 Aug 2011)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> I'm still curious as to why any of these posters want to be an HCA?
> 
> Having been an HCA for 19 yrs now, I can tell you with absolute certainty that having a Business degree means nothing. Having an MA in any sort of health care management field means jack. Other than points on a merit board, it doesn't equate to the most important aspects of our role - ensuring that our troops get the absolute best care possible. Health care requires a passion, not 'it was my second choice'.
> 
> ...



 :cheers:

MM


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## cnobbs84 (13 Aug 2011)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> I'm still curious as to why any of these posters want to be an HCA?
> 
> Having been an HCA for 19 yrs now, I can tell you with absolute certainty that having a Business degree means nothing. Having an MA in any sort of health care management field means jack. Other than points on a merit board, it doesn't equate to the most important aspects of our role - ensuring that our troops get the absolute best care possible. Health care requires a passion, not 'it was my second choice'.
> 
> ...



Staff I think that you may need a hug. If I wanted to work in a civy hospital I would have applied because my neighbor is very high up in Oshawa General Hospital. If I wanted to be a rich man I never would have applied to the Canadian Forces. Get my point? I am doing this because I want to serve my country and ensure that those who need to be treated can be in the most efficient way. Do HCA Officers make a butt load of money in the civy sector they sure do well over 100k a year. I plan on this being my career... a career I can be proud of. But more importantly ensuring that our troops get the care that they need no matter where in the world that they are. Eventually I would love to try and work for a team that works for disaster relief, the UN the options are endless. You don't get those kind of options working in a civy hospital making 100k+ a year.


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## cnobbs84 (13 Aug 2011)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> If you're going HCA to try and pad a resume and get a sweet job in a civy hospital a few years from now - please go elsewhere, we don't need you. We have enough self-centred jackasses in the branch as it is. I've seen far too many pathetic excuses for Officers over the last several years - telling me how they have this course, or that course, and now they know everything.



The only thing that my Degree proves... is that I have a lot of debt lol


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## Gunner98 (14 Aug 2011)

cnobbs84 said:
			
		

> You don't get those kind of options working in a civy hospital making 100k+ a year.



You can make $100K+ in uniform as a HCA and still not get those opportunities.  Do you think HCAs make decisions on how and where soldiers get health care and how efficient it is provided?  Really, not single-handedly they don't.  They may get to pay the bill, file the invoice or answer the phone.  They may do a recce, make a medical estimate or advise a field force commander but don't bank on making major decisions in your first 8+ years of service.


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## cnobbs84 (15 Aug 2011)

Thanks for the info. I figured that no one in their right mind would let a 2Lt make decisions because that is the time for the training/ learning. I figured making/offering decisions like that wouldn't happen at the junior officer level anyways. As for working for the others I think it would be interesting to do, but if you don't get that option then that's the way the cookie crumbles. 

Are you an HCA? If so how long have you been in?


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## Eastcoaster03 (15 Aug 2011)

cnobbs84 said:
			
		

> So selection started on Friday... and now the wait is killing me!!



Hopefully you'll hear something soon. I don't really understand why some people get a little weirdly aggressive on this site about people wanting to try something in their life. Good luck and hopefully you'll hear something this week.


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## cnobbs84 (15 Aug 2011)

Eastcoaster03 said:
			
		

> Hopefully you'll hear something soon. I don't really understand why some people get a little weirdly aggressive on this site about people wanting to try something in their life. Good luck and hopefully you'll hear something this week.



Thanks eastcoaster. Selections have not happened yet even though they were supposed to start on Friday, but I guess that's the government for you lol. As for people getting aggressive I just shrug it off.. people tend to forget that they once were in my shoes very eager to get hired. But it is what it is and it's their right as a Canadian to complain if they wish lol.


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## SheRa011 (16 Aug 2011)

i agree with eastcoaster and nobbs...if you can't support another person's career aspirations, why not just keep the lack of support to yourself?  after all, i didn't weigh in on your career goals.  it's one thing to let on that you did not enjoy your career and why, but it's another ball game to judge and discourage others.

further more, there is no one career that is perfect.  if perfect careers exist, they must be where there is utopia.

weird that the selection mtg for hca on friday did not take place.  i was in the halifax rc and the mcc told me that the meeting was still a go ahead as of shortly after lunch.  so something must have happened.  anybody found out why?


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## MNM8 (16 Aug 2011)

The selection definitely did happen Friday as planned. My RC received notification yesterday afternoon and rang me today to give me an offer for DEO HCA starting Sept. 26.


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## Eastcoaster03 (16 Aug 2011)

MNM8 said:
			
		

> The selection definitely did happen Friday as planned. My RC received notification yesterday afternoon and rang me today to give me an offer for DEO HCA starting Sept. 26.



Nice! Congratz! Where are you located?


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## aesop081 (16 Aug 2011)

SheRa011 said:
			
		

> it's one thing to let on that you did not enjoy your career and why, but it's another ball game to judge and discourage others.



Grow thicker skin.......not realy, do it. There was great advice, insights and a good dose of reality in some of these posts.


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## slyw0lf (16 Aug 2011)

Congrats, my RC called me as well and offered me a DEO HCA position. I'm pretty excited to start my career and begin training in September.


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## cnobbs84 (16 Aug 2011)

slyw0lf said:
			
		

> Congrats, my RC called me as well and offered me a DEO HCA position. I'm pretty excited to start my career and begin training in September.



What cfrc are you with?


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## Ayrsayle (16 Aug 2011)

For those who just recently got their call - We have a bunch of us already on a facebook group. Send me PM and I'll give you the relevant details. Congrats again!


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## Brandon J (16 Aug 2011)

For those that have been selected for September BMOQ we have a facebook group going.  PM Ayrsayle or I your name and where you are from and I'll add you to the group.  Congratulations and I look forward to meeting you all.


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## Eastcoaster03 (17 Aug 2011)

I got in for HCA as well. Gave them a call today and they told me. I think they said their system was down and wasn't updating at the time but yeah see you all in Sept.


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## Staff Weenie (17 Aug 2011)

Well, congrats to all who made it in. I still stand by my comments, and no cnobbs, I don't need a hug - I need competent HCAs coming up through the system to replace me someday. By the way, Simian Turner is also an HCA, with far more experience than myself. I would trust his assessments without reservation.

There's lots of words of advice available - hopefully you take them all to heart. Here's more than my two cents.

What we do is not a game - people can, and will, die - don't walk in with false bravado - it hurts, no matter how professional you try to be. Though we aren't clinicians, there is a very real potential that you will get blood on your hands. You may find yourself carrying patients, applying pressure, or even helping mop out the trauma bay floors. Maybe you'll find yourself holding the phone for a wounded soldier so he can tell his mother how he lost his fingers. Maybe you'll be talking to the father of a young child who died minutes earlier, to try and figure out what to do next.

You will hear the term Mission, Men, Yourself - these are your priorities, in order, from now on. 

Admit and learn from your mistakes, your subordinates will respect you for that.

Dedicate yourself to your soldiers - without them, you are useless - they save lives, you help enable them to succeed. Earn their respect, don't demand it, and understand that earning it can take years, losing it can take seconds. 

Be a leader. You will eventually be given command over some of the finest people in the world. If you really understand what command and leadership are, you will be energized, yet humbled by it, maybe even a bit intimidated, and you will never want to let it go.

Good luck in your careers, and if you ever want to ask questions, I am always here.


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## sky777 (17 Aug 2011)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> Well, congrats to all who made it in. I still stand by my comments, and no cnobbs, I don't need a hug - I need competent HCAs coming up through the system to replace me someday. By the way, Simian Turner is also an HCA, with far more experience than myself. I would trust his assessments without reservation.
> 
> There's lots of words of advice available - hopefully you take them all to heart. Here's more than my two cents.
> 
> ...


Nice post for all CF officers.Thanks a lot.


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## TiredofSitting (17 Aug 2011)

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> Well, congrats to all who made it in. I still stand by my comments, and no cnobbs, I don't need a hug - I need competent HCAs coming up through the system to replace me someday. By the way, Simian Turner is also an HCA, with far more experience than myself. I would trust his assessments without reservation.
> 
> There's lots of words of advice available - hopefully you take them all to heart. Here's more than my two cents.
> 
> ...



That was the best post that I've read since I became a member of this site. Thanks for that, it was very uplifting.


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## cnobbs84 (17 Aug 2011)

I agree. That was an eye opener and I do thank you for that. I have spoken with Siamian thru PM and agreed very knowledgeable and helpful


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