# Getting jacked off duty



## PTE Gruending (16 Jun 2003)

I really wish that when I got finished my basic training, and went to my home unit (Reserve-Infantry) I would have recieved a brief on deportment in the Armouries. I am really confused as to when to salute/not salute, and how "disciplined" I should be - obviously thinks are much slacker than on course.

One time I went in to see the QM to grab some kit, unpaid, off-duty, and in civvies. There was a Sargeant there that jacked me up a little bit for not stating her rank when I addressed her. Plus she must have spent some time in the Orderly Room because she started hassling me about refusing to go on an earlier BMQ (I had employment issues), and getting my training done earlier.

And today, I went in, again; offduty, unpaid, and in civvies. I had to check whether or not I was confirmed for a course in August, so I went to the Orderly room. They sent me to see the CSM to find out for sure, and a SGT in the orderly room told me to come to attention outside of the CSMs office. I was a little confused, is this regular practice? I felt like a complete turd coming to half assed attention, me with a backwards baseball cap, shorts, and sandals.

How is it that this stuff can happen? Particularily when I am at the armouries on my own time, checking things out/getting kit, because of the Army‘s mistakes, and I get hassled?

Thanks!


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## Korus (17 Jun 2003)

Have you done your 3‘s yet?
I‘ve noticed that before you earn your chevron, you get lots of cock.


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## meni0n (17 Jun 2003)

Hey, 
Can you guys explain in more detail what I can expect since I‘ll be going on basic this summer for reserves. What kind of treatement is waiting at the regiment for the next 8 months?


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Jun 2003)

> I really wish that when I got finished my basic training, and went to my home unit (Reserve-Infantry) I would have recieved a brief on deportment in the Armouries. I am really confused as to when to salute/not salute, and how "disciplined" I should be - obviously thinks are much slacker than on course.


Err, a brief would do you little good.  What you‘re doing is called "OJT" - On the Job Training.  We all went through it.



> One time I went in to see the QM to grab some kit, unpaid, off-duty, and in civvies. There was a Sargeant there that jacked me up a little bit for not stating her rank when I addressed her.


You honestly needed a briefing on proper manners?  Always address your superiors properly, nothing hard about that.

In time, you‘ll reach a level of comfort in dealing with your superiors.  Won‘t happen in your first year.  Always address everyone by their rank and you can‘t go wrong.  I‘ve been in 15 years and I still address my sergeants as "Sergeant", even the ones I am on a first name basis with outside the armouries.  

Manners.




> Plus she must have spent some time in the Orderly Room because she started hassling me about refusing to go on an earlier BMQ (I had employment issues), and getting my training done earlier.


Ok, maybe she‘s just a bitch.    

Seriously, this is all expected for a new person.  Don‘t take it personally, through adversity comes growth.



> And today, I went in, again; offduty, unpaid, and in civvies. I had to check whether or not I was confirmed for a course in August, so I went to the Orderly room. They sent me to see the CSM to find out for sure, and a SGT in the orderly room told me to come to attention outside of the CSMs office. I was a little confused, is this regular practice?


YES



> I felt like a complete turd coming to half assed attention, me with a backwards baseball cap, shorts, and sandals.


Baseball caps have bills for a reason; they keep the sun out of your eyes.  Why were you wearing a hat indoors, anyway?  

If you admit to dressing like a complete turd, why would you blame anyone for treating you like one?  



> How is it that this stuff can happen? Particularily when I am at the armouries on my own time, checking things out/getting kit, because of the Army‘s mistakes, and I get hassled?


Best advise here - Suck it up.  Soldier on.  It‘s part of the game.  Play the game well in return;

show respect to those that have earned it

demand respect by your attitude, your bearing, and yes, even your dress when in civvies

Anything else?


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## PTE Gruending (17 Jun 2003)

Well, from my experience, its really really slack at your home unit, but of course - every regiment is different. I actually have a pretty good rapport with some of the younger officers, and you‘ll be buddy buddy with PTEs and CPLs. Of course, it is still the Army, and you still get jacked from time to time. But its a lot more lenient, no running here and there, not much cock. Going on course is meant to condition you, mentally, for the horrors of war (of course there are sadomistic instructors out there who actually get their rocks off on dishing out ****).


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## Pikache (17 Jun 2003)

What Dorosh said.

Expect to get a lot of cock if you don‘t have your BIQ or whatever equivalent. Yeah, sometimes you get cock for no reason but most of the time, it‘s there to teach you a lesson in military life.

I always address anyone above corporal by their rank, even if I‘m buddies with them, when on duty/at armoury. Off duty, well, anything goes, within limits and depends on how well you know the guy. (Don‘t call your CO by his first name, lol)

If you are unsure or have a question, ask someone who knows. If you‘re not sure when to salute, how to address someone, ask.

You‘ll find that some things in military you must take initiative to find out for yourself.


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## PTE Gruending (17 Jun 2003)

> You honestly needed a briefing on proper manners? Always address your superiors properly, nothing hard about that.
> 
> In time, you‘ll reach a level of comfort in dealing with your superiors. Won‘t happen in your first year. Always address everyone by their rank and you can‘t go wrong. I‘ve been in 15 years and I still address my sergeants as "Sergeant", even the ones I am on a first name basis with outside the armouries.
> 
> Manners.


Its not necessarily manners, its just how to conduct myself when I am not in uniform. You arent subject to the "code" when you arent wearing the republican guards.



> Baseball caps have bills for a reason; they keep the sun out of your eyes. Why were you wearing a hat indoors, anyway?
> 
> If you admit to dressing like a complete turd, why would you blame anyone for treating you like one?


Well the great thing about living in a free nation is the ability to wear whatever you want, however you want - I choose to exercise this right and freedom. 

Besides, tons of people wear ball caps in the Armouries when they pop in to take care of paperwork, get kit, hang out, etc. MCPLS wear them when we do PT on the parade square!


Michael, do not take this reply as an insult, after lurking here forever, I highly respect you. However, the whole point of my post was to point out some annoying concerns I had.


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## Korus (17 Jun 2003)

> republican guards


I see CFL_Lui is rubbing off on you..

They are not ****ing republican guard uniforms, they are Canadian Forces uniforms. I‘m proud to put on a CF uniform, not a rep guard uniform. I respect the CF uniform, not the rep guard uniform.

Sorry, Just a little pet peeve of mine..


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## Zoomie (17 Jun 2003)

> _
> You arent subject to the "code" when you arent wearing the republican guards. _


That is where you are wrong. Reservists are subject to the Code of Service Discipline ANY time that they set foot on DND property.  The Sgt was quite right for jacking you up... Act as you would if you were wearing Combats et al.

In fact, you must present yourself that is IAW code too.  You MUST be clean shaven, if you are male, you must NOT have any earrings etc etc.  

Just because you are not collecting the Queen‘s shilling does not necessarily mean that you are "off duty".

If you think this is harsh, just imagine the life of a Regular Force member.  They are subject to the Code 24/7, 52 weeks/year.  They have no respite from the system.

In civilian dress you are also expected to show courtesy to Officers‘ through an eyes right/left.  The Officer, if he/she is switched on enough, should reply with a Salute.  The opposite is true.  An Officer in civis is also to be saluted by NCMs in Uniform.  He/she would respond with checking their arms.


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Jun 2003)

No offence taken, Gruending.

Some more friendly advice:

*Forget*  about the "code" as some type of rules you need to follow.

Think about the "code" as just that - a code by which you live.

If you want to be treated like a soldier, then don‘t just act like one - BE one.  Show respect, even if you don‘t think you HAVE to.  Do it because it‘s part of who you are - a soldier.  Even if you‘re not technically "on duty" why believe that you cease to be a soldier?

And yes, you have the right to dress like a slob.  Employers also have the right to form first impressions of you at job interviews, and that goes for all the NCOs in your unit too, who form very real and lasting impressions of you based on how you look when "not on duty."

I‘ve worked in our company orderly room for two years now, and believe me when I tell you that the CSM will very likely be judging you based on what you look like in civvies or what kind of deportment you have, when you think no one is looking.  

You won‘t often go wrong if you start doing the right things not because you think they "look" right, but because they "are" right.

Right?     

Oh, and unlike the Regular Force (      ) Reservists are expected to know the difference between street clothes and PT kit.  Same thing goes for baseball caps.  Wearing them for PT is one thing; wearing them (backwards) to report to your CSM is another.


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## combat_medic (17 Jun 2003)

Pte Gruending: since you‘re quite new to the military I‘ll give you a little hint that has served me well over the last 4 years +/-

...you will never EVER get jacked up for being too formal!

If someone doesn‘t want you to call them by their rank, they will let you know. Until such a time, don‘t assume otherwise. Since you‘re new, you haven‘t earned the right to slacken off the rules. When you‘re allowed, you‘ll know it. Until that time, don‘t slack off. 

BTW, in case no one here has mentioned it, the Republican Guard usually wears British Camo (DPM), it‘s the regular Iraqi army that wears the solid olive green.


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## PTE Gruending (17 Jun 2003)

I have to say that I am extremely disheartened to hear some of these things. I know this is an extreme example, but; am I expected to be clean shaven, suit/tie when I am "doing more than expected" - ie: taking care of Army business on my own time, b/c of their screwups, as opposed to wasting TRG time on parade nights?

Frankly I have no time for those who judge people based on their appearance. Yes, you can draw conclusions, and make whatever assumptions you want, but in the end you may be incorrect in some of your assertions. Track me down during the week sometime; I am dressed ultra casual (as I said before, backwards cap, shorts, tshirt, etc), usually a week unshaven, make whatever judgements you may - I am an intelligent, well-read, switched-on, cultured, and an in shape guy. Frankly, if my superiors are more concerned with my ‘look‘ on civvie street, as opposed to observing my performance during TRG, then perhaps they need to make a priority-check.

These are some of the things I wish the recruiter would have told me before I signed up (whether it would have made a difference - I don‘t know). But items like this, and the fact you can go to prison for making a mistake on the ranges, are suprising and frightening.

Thanks to all who have replied.


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## combat_medic (17 Jun 2003)

Pte Gruending: at your level, your superiors will always care about your appearance. Looking scruffy an unkempt may not be a reflection of your intelligence, but it is a reflection of your professionalism. In addition, not calling someone by rank (something you had already been taught) is also a reflection of your professionalism, in uniform or not.

If your RSM or CO ran into you on the street, and he was dressed shabbily, called you "buddy" or by your first name, you would also consider that a breach of professionalism. According to the code of service discipline, if you run into an officer and the both of you are in civvies, you‘re still supposed to come to attention, and address them as "Sir" or "Ma‘am". It‘s about respect. Those people have earned their rank and position, and you are required to respect that. If your CO is in civvies, he‘s still your CO, has still earned his rank, and still deserves your respect.

Once you have a little time in, a little more rank on your sleeve, and a little more knowledge about the ins and outs of protocol and courtesy, you will figure out how it all works. 

Also, if I were wearing grubby $hit clothes, I wouldn‘t be going to my Armoury or any other place of employment. It‘s unprofessional... don‘t be surprised if others think this way as well and treat you unprofessionally.


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## Recce41 (17 Jun 2003)

First off you don‘t show up in S^&* clothing. If you showed up that that I would have riped you a new one. You are on duty 24/7. Even in the Res!. 
So if you don‘t like it GET OUT! If you would have shown up like that at a Reg unit, you name would have been on the duty list for about a month. You lil piece os crap get a grip.


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Jun 2003)

Gruending - no offence intended again, but these aren‘t things your recruiter should need to mention.  It‘s basic common knowledge, and at the risk of sounding like my dad - or yours - as you start to gain experience not just in the reserve world, but in the "real" world, this will start to make more sense to you if it honestly hasn‘t already.

Go with the flow and in ten years, when you‘re a Master Corporal jacking up someone for talking to you with his hands in his pockets you‘ll look back and laugh.


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## WINDWOLF (17 Jun 2003)

Remember that where ever you are,that you
represent the Military & should conduct
yourself accordling.You don,t have to
be in shirt/tie,but do dress in decent
cloths.

There is no such thing as your own time,
you may be called out on short notice
so be prepared.But then again,i was reg so
we always played the game to the max.

You will learn in time.

Have fun.


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## PTE Gruending (17 Jun 2003)

> You lil piece os crap get a grip.


Thanks Recce41 - what a shining example of professionalism. Perhaps I will refer you to this post;  Conduct Guideline


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## Pikache (17 Jun 2003)

^Do you talk to your sergeants like that?

This is rather informal board, but there is still minimum protocol to be observed.
Perhaps you may want to rethink about Conduct Guidelines also.


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## PTE Gruending (17 Jun 2003)

Thanks again to all who have replied. Its just annoying that you have to learn these little protocol things things the hard way, ie; make an error - get jacked, vs. being told about it beforehand.

FYI; I never did get **** for what I was wearing - which was just normal summer clothing (its +30 here!!) . I just felt unprofesional doing drill in civvies.


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## Fader (17 Jun 2003)

Don‘t worry about things too much Gruending, that‘s an important thing.  In the reserves, it seems common trend to give guys less than a year off basic alot of cock.  In my 2.5 years, I was amazed to see how that was the case.  All my first year, I tried living up to everyone elses expectations, and all I got for it was the same crap alot of folks here are giving you.  When I came back from my three‘s the emphasis shifted from me to the guys who just came off basic.

I think it was one of the medics who said you can never be punished for being too formal, and he is correct about that.  You‘re unit is probably differant from mine but once you‘ve been around for a while, you‘ll get the swing of things.  I‘m on a first name basis with almost all the Privates and a few of the Master Corporals just because I know them well enough to know they don‘t mind, but with Sergeants and up, It‘s almost always by rank (then again, in most cases, they do mind).

As for what you wear and do on your own time, that‘s exactly your prerogative, not anyone elses.  At your home unit, you sign a sheet of paper that says on the top "Authorized training hours: ____ to ____"  every day you show up to work, and while you‘re still subject to the code of service discipline while you are on DND property, noone can stop you from doing anything that doesn‘t violate the CSD when you‘re on your own time.

Just remember that you do eventually work with the people you interact with on or off duty, and the impression they form of you off duty sometimes is reminscant in the way they treat  you when you are on duty.  So if they‘re sticklers for formality, just play along with it, come to attention, address them by rank, and conduct yourself like an out of uniform soldier.

I also think it‘s funny someone jacked you up for wearing shorts, a t-shirt and a ballcap.  I went into my unit the other day wearing a pair of straight leg jeans and a collared shirt shirt and my SSM told me "What are you doing in jeans, man?  This is shorts and t-shirt weather."


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## Recce41 (17 Jun 2003)

Well pte Gruending, thanks. With your so much time in, I hope I meet you. Yes you showing up with a backward ball cap, sandals, shorts dressed like your going skateboarding does not cut it. Yes maybe, a go pair of walking shorts, shirt and runners could pass. But not going to see the SSM/CSM. I have met soldiers like you. It is how soldiers are dressing now. S@#$. You are the eye of the public. Yes I am a prick. Those that know me here will so. NCOs well most NCOs are there to keep you alive. A NCO that cannot or will not grab a soldier by the neck and sort him or her out. Is a NCO that would not give that pat on the back when a good job is done. As for professional, how would you know? I remember when I was a yng trooper getting a shot in the head for not having my heels together for a Cpl. Are having your Troop WO taking you out back to rip your face off. 
I came for a Military family, so to have it done to me was not suprise. Grow up dress like an adult not like a lil boy. 
And thanks again, I hope I meet you on a tour when the shells drop, or bullets fly. 
  :evil:    :tank:


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## Recce41 (17 Jun 2003)

LUI (noone can stop you from doing anything that doesn‘t violate the CSD when you‘re on your own time). Is in a way wrong. You signed the line. even off duty tell the SSM to go F himselve can get you in sh%^. Just because you are a Res does not make it different. Even if you act like an a55can do to. If someone wants to push it. We‘ve had Ress show up for tour/ taskings and say you cannot jail me and end up in jail. 
Maybe I should change my login to EvilRecce41. HAHA


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## WINDWOLF (17 Jun 2003)

You should do that Recce,seems to fit your
EEEEvil persona.    

Have a great day,dude.

aloha


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## Zoomie (17 Jun 2003)

Hey Recce41, how‘s the summer training going out there.  Are you DS on the Reserve ARTC?  Our RSSO is out there as DS...

Pte Gruending, shrug it off...  A little jacking up is good to keep the adrenalin flowing and the neurons firing.  I remember getting in $hit for the first couple years of my Reservist Career.  You are teflon for a while, until you are at least a senior Corporal, so enjoy it while you can.


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## Recce41 (17 Jun 2003)

Windwolf Thanks! Its from ****s that piss me off. Too many tours and just getting too old. 24yrs and counting. I may call it next yr though. After leaving the fun postings, it sucks at the school. I have not had a jump for two yrs, Exs are short and no fun, there are people here at the Armour School that have never seen the light of the Regt. But tell you your wrong because the book says its this way,but cry because they cannot go on tour. That would mean they have to leave and do a real job. Its time to run. I was hopeing to get back Pet or Dwyer. But no possible promoted Sgts can go. Pet maybe?
Later, there are so few Regs here, its a breath of air to talk to one. I‘m a DS on a Res course and when they put 8 balls on shifters, ask if fuzzy dice can hang from the mirror, getting wing tatoos and me seeing them, and show up looking like Gunny Hwy burns me good. I think a lil Ruck march would help?

  :evil:    :tank:


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## Fader (17 Jun 2003)

The RSM at my unit was with the reg force for 20 years, served in the airborne for a few of them, got his wings, and is a proud signaler.  I know this, and accordingly, on or off duty, I still call him sir. He was the one that told me to put on some shorts and relax... my bad, he‘s not an SSM, guess I shold buy him a beer for that.  The point being around the unit, off duty, I‘d treat any senior NCO or Officer with the same respect I‘d treat the RSM.

IMO, acting like you got a stick up your ***  all the time is just as bad "in the public eye" as acting like you don‘t give a **** about anything.  How does acting like a normal, decent person sound?  IMO, being polite and cordial is far more respectable than acting like a total jacka$$ all the time.  

I respect the RSM even more because he is both a polite, sincere and caring man as well as an experienced, professional soldier.  On parade he‘s jacked me up for not folding my sleevs the right way and in the field, he‘s jacked me up for not pounding the groundstake for my truck far enough.  Off parade he‘ll talk to me like I‘m a human being, and around the unit he‘ll joke around with me like a fatherly figure.  Again, IMO, I think the RSM is the model of a good leader, and a good soldier.

I walked into my unit today to sign a claim I had handed in a week ago, and I was wearing what I‘m wearing now: a wife beater, an unbuttoned collared shirt, and a pair of torn and ripped track pants.  In the OR was a new 2LT and a pretty seasoned Captain.  I gave them a friendly nod and a warm "Hello, sir" apiece and went about my business.  Noone gave me flak for that, so I‘ll just continue on like that.


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## WINDWOLF (17 Jun 2003)

You got alot to give yet Recce,don,t give up.
You are a good man,young,but still good.
OLD,boy ,i got underware older than you.   

Have fun with it & maybe do some rec jumps
to keep in form & don,t let the wannabe,s
get you down.You know what you are,so who cares
what the a$$holes think.Be true to yourself.

Gotta go,kids taken me to see the circus tonite.

Aloha all.


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## Recce41 (17 Jun 2003)

For one Officers don‘t sort out soldiers, NCOs do. Many officers are rags anyway. It is the RSM that decreases what men wear and the Regt 2ic for the CO for the Officers. And NCOs sort out men/ jr officers and the Capts for the Officers. If you got away with that, good for you. but remember oneday you‘ll get it.

  :evil:    :tank:


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## inferno (17 Jun 2003)

I‘m with Recce on this one.
Don‘t be a punk.


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## Devlin (17 Jun 2003)

Okay so I‘m gonna show some of ignorance here and ask the question what is a DS? I believe in the US it means Drill Sergeant. What is the meaning in Canada?

Have to agree with M. Dorosh and Recce41 the people you meet every day do form their first impressions based on appearence. Ever been to a bar and eyed up someone with a really nice personality???? I doubt it.


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## Recce41 (17 Jun 2003)

Wind Buddy
 I‘m 42 yrs old if you have underware that old. I think you should change them. HAHAHA. As for DS Devlin it means (Directing Staff), it was once "IS" (Instructor Staff). 
 I hope no one really takes it to heart. I just look that if your in the military, you are the flag bearer. That travels the world to sell Canada. Would you buy something for a BUM. NO! 
I‘m starting to like the lil Devil, I may post it on my unofficial Military sign.
  :evil:    :tank:


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## meni0n (17 Jun 2003)

I know this is off-topic but how do you go about adressing a WO? It‘s easy for sargeant it‘s one word, so everytime you need to adress a WO you say "Warrant Officer...."? Sorry I‘m supposed to do basic soon maybe they‘ll clarify that there.


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## PTE Gruending (17 Jun 2003)

Holy ****! This thread is getting blown waaaaay out of proportion. Essentially, all I asked was what level of discipline should I maintain when offduty and proceeding with army-business.

I certainly never expected to see the CSM when I popped in at my unit, just some CPLs in the orderly room. I never got jacked, and everyone was cordial with me, the CSM was extremely aproachable and polite.

The other time, I wasnt sure whether to address NCOs by rank when I was in civvie mode - and I was corrected at the time - fair enough! But being jacked for not going on course with 2 days notice, while I was on my own time is complete bull****.

The whole purpose of this board is to communicate, learn, voice concerns/problems, and network. I had a question about deportment - so I friggen asked it!

Then right away I am jumped on: "Gruending you are a ****en ****ty soldier", "Bag of ****", "Bet you are some piece of ****en **** punk", "Hope I instruct on one of your courses one day", "back in my day I woulda KO‘ed you for wearing sandals", blah blah blah....If it is the goal of some of the forum members to intimidate the younger, inexperienced soldiers such as myself, from asking questions - then the whole point of this forum is down the ****ter! Someone has to ask the stupid questions. And it can be handled professionally (thank you Mr. Dorosh, Combat_Medic, and the rest). Resorting to personal attacks, and assuming one is not "switched on" because he/she likes to wear a necklace, or shorts off-duty is absurd.

Recce41, irregardless of your replies, I am sure you are one fine ****en soldier, and I have to say that it sounds like you are perhaps the epitomy of the "fighting man" of what the military is based on....

Thanks!


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## shaunlin41 (17 Jun 2003)

"Well the great thing about living in a free nation is the ability to wear whatever you want, however you want - I choose to exercise this right and freedom."

This notion may be fine and dandy if you are a civvy but you are not, you are a member of the Canadian forces!!!!   Be proud of this and yourself.  The day you signed your name you suspend these rights until you quit... try using your right to freedom of speech and mouth off the CO, pleeeeease try it!
As for how people view you on appearance, it makes no difference how edumacated you think you are because if they don‘t talk enuff to know you they will not know that.  And by the way, you still represent the forces and the rest of us when you are in civvy‘s if you dress like a f### nut others will think we are all f### nuts.   
Hopefully soon you will grow out of that grade 7 phase of dress.


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Jun 2003)

menion..."Warrant" is an acceptable form of address for a Warrant Officer.  As in "Yes, Warrant."

Some of them like to be sirred, the majority I have met do not, unless they are actually holding a senior appointment (ie acting CSM).


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## humint (17 Jun 2003)

Hey, don‘t worry about it, getting cock is typical on course. As someone said, it‘s all just a game, and you have to learn to accept and live with it. 

In fact, last week I was walking out of J7 in Gage with some Ocdt I didn‘t even know when all of a sudden a WO came out of no where. He asked us what course we were on, where we were going, and then proceeded to give us a large amount of high calibre cock for not having our lids on when leaving the building. 

Well, I sure as heck had mine on, but the guy next to me didn‘t (dumb ***  was a LOG Ocdt)-- and I had no idea who the freakin LOG guy was, he was just walking beside me. But, I ended up talkin‘ a handful of cock with him. 

The point is, I‘m a 2LT, and here‘s a WO givin‘ me cock in front of J7. All I said was a respectful "yes, Warrant" and got on with my life. I‘m not pissed, it‘s just the way the game is played. Don‘t take the stuff personally, it‘s done to make you a better soldier. And, above all, don‘t try to pull rank. 

Now, about dressing like a bum at the Regiment. As for as I‘m concerned, you should go in wearing something respectful. Follow the CF guidelines for casual wear (golf shirt, burmuda shorts, etc). Don‘t wear your baseball cap backwards. 

As for coming to attention, you don‘t need to in civs unless you are on course (this may be different for the NCMs when you are asking for something or doing something official like pulling kit, etc). 

Certainly, don‘t salute unless you are in uniform and wearing your lid.

So, in order to avoid any unpleasant cock, you may want to come to attention in civs and let the NCO tell you to relax. Remember to refer to them by their rank and name.

Remember, if you know the person‘s rank, you should always refer to them by rank and name, even if they are in civs. 

For example, if I see Capt Sh!ttypants downtown and he‘s in civ clothing, I will refer to him as "Capt Sh!ttypants." 

This, however, changes if you know the individual on a personal level or have given permission for that person to refer to you by your name.

Again, life on the darkside may be a bit different than it is for NCMS.  

Best advice is to always be respectful and act professional. 

Hope this helps.

PS. Why is s.h.i.t.t.y a swear word and COCK ain‘t?


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## Michael Dorosh (17 Jun 2003)

Because you can cock a weapon, cock your head to take a look, or be woken up by the cock crowing at dawn.

It‘s not a "curse" in all or even most senses of the word.


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## humint (17 Jun 2003)

I hear the word COCK and I only think one thing -- my WO givin it to me HARD and without pause! Man, that word makes me flinch.


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## Korus (18 Jun 2003)

We had a design contest for our course T-shirts on BMQ, where we could submit deisgns, and the platoon would vote for the one we‘d get made. The Shirt that was winning had our course motto, "30 Days of Belt-Fed Cock". Our course WO kindly informed us that, on the outside, people may interpret differently than intended. Needless to say, another design ended up winning.


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## Fader (18 Jun 2003)

CFSCE = Canadian Forces School for Cock Enthusiasts;

CFSCE Cock: 12 feet long, 4 feet wide, 150hp, air cooled, belt fed, chain driven, surrounded with sandpaper with a pneumatically driven fork on the end.


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## WINDWOLF (18 Jun 2003)

Maybe i will Recce bro, got a pair i can borrow?

Don,t sweat the responses Pte,all in a days work.
Like the guys say "getting cock" is part & parcel
of the army mentality. Go with the flow.

There is no such thing as a stupid question
if you don,t know.

Ignore the crap,in one ear & out the other,
just retain whats required.You will catch on.

Man,i am just brim full of folksie wisdom
today.


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## Fader (18 Jun 2003)

Courses are getting short; my 5‘s is only 6 weeks this year.

The cock we got on course last year was quite unlike any cock we had gotten before.  Since we‘re not really a combat oriented trade, the instructors don‘t use remedial PT so much as I thought they would.  Sure there‘s 10 pushups for every button undone, letter, and piece of gargbage in the trash; but where they really got us last year (and where I imagine they will this year) is in standardization.  That‘s what bugged us the most, was how the instructors would change the standard every day.  One day it was "tooth brush facing the left" the next it was "tooth brush facing the right."  One day it was "collars on the jacket go up."  the next "collars on the jacket go down."  Of course between 30 people, spaced out over an entire building with 10 of us completly cut off (males not allowed in female quarters), and with everybody having differant kit, we could never get it completly standardized.  They‘d always threaten to take our weekends away over that too, something nobody wanted.   Looking back in retrospect, though, it was actually a good time.


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## Recce41 (18 Jun 2003)

Wind 
I think it is from doing the business for a few of yrs changes you. 
Humit, you told you, you don‘t have to stand to attention in civies? Yes yng man you do! 
  :evil:    :tank:


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## humint (18 Jun 2003)

Hey, may be I‘m wrong. But, I‘ve been told not to come to attention in civs unless: you are on base, you are on the parade sqaure or at the reg, or are on course. 

Definitely don‘t salute in civs.


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## WINDWOLF (18 Jun 2003)

Humint,

If you go by the strict letter of the law,
yes, you are right.What the guys are trying
to to tell you is that it never hurts to
show respect for the rank.In civys or combats
give it & you will get it back.


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## Recce41 (18 Jun 2003)

By rights, you must speak to a superior soldier at attendion. The military has gotten slack for a while now. When I got in, in 79 no hook troopers had to stand for attention for one hook ones. Yes out in public was stupid. But I have stores from my Father about the Army in the late 40s-60s. He was in since 43, ****, if you were a shack rat. Your civies had to be in a seperate closet, civie socks rolled, etc. 
 I remember onetime my old man many yrs oago. Having a yng trooper at attention, at the old Canex in Petawawa. For not speaking to the CO at attention. This was back in the 60s.


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## D-n-A (18 Jun 2003)

anytime I show up at my armouries in civvies or uniform, I always address people by their rank(cpl an up, or just *sir* or *ma‘am* for officers an MWO‘s an CWO‘s), but in the J.R.‘s it‘s usually slacker


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## kurokaze (19 Jun 2003)

Ok, here‘s a question that may or may not be related.

As a (now qualified) 2Lt, I‘ve been addressing 
everyone up to WO by their rank and name.

However, for MWO and CWO, I‘ve been calling them
CSM, BSM, RSM whatever, just because the ones I‘ve
met just happened to have those appointments.  

So what would I normally call an MWO or CWO?
Would I say "Master Warrant" or "Chief Warrant"
or should I be saying "sir"?


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## Zoomie (19 Jun 2003)

Most times those pers with a CSM or RSM rank are Sergeant-Majors or RSMs.  However, I once worked with a Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class (equivalent of MWO) in the Navy.  I simply asked him what I should call him.  He said to call him "Chief".

So when in doubt, ask!


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