# The waiting is the hardest part



## LatvianLegion (24 Aug 2009)

After a few years of applying for careers in the RCMP, CSIS, etc, I had put in an application to the Forces a couple months ago. I have an MA from the University of Western Ontario and it seems for the jobs that I really want I needed experience in a field that could best be described as military or military-like. I decided against becoming a University professor because academia was starting to bore me and I had always wanted to join the military since I was a youngster.

I put in my application and got a date for the CFAT. I wrote it a few weeks ago and qualified for every trade including the one I wanted (AESOP). I should make it known that even though I have two university degrees I applied for an NCM position because I want to do "the fun stuff" and I'd rather work my way up than be given an officer position right off the bat.

I did the interview a week later and did very well, according to the interviewer. My medical wasn't scheduled for another month but I got a call immediately after the interview and was bumped up to the same week. 

The medical was an ordeal for me. I have level 3 CVD but I've been able to do the Farnsworth D15 perfectly (for my RCMP application a few years ago). I didn't do it perfectly during the three times I had to do it in the medical so I didn't qualify for aircrew. I was moved to intelligence (Comm Rsch) which I will enjoy just as much - CV3s are acceptable for this position (and also Int Op).

The rest of the physical went fine and the doctor thought I was in good shape to join (other than CVD and slight near-sightedness). I had a follow-up interview over the phone with the same interviewer last week due to my switch in trades and some new questions he was unaware of before.

I asked him at the end of the phone conversation how long it will be until I know. He said October but I could hear earlier. I wonder if this is due to the medical info needing to be reviewed in Ottawa?

Anyhow now I have to wait. I am so impatient to hear whether I will be offered the job or not and I'm not sure anyone can offer me any comfort. There have been a few disappointments lately (CSIS) and I honestly don't know what I'll do if I don't get in!


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## LatvianLegion (28 Aug 2009)

Just got off the phone with recruiting and they said I will likely be merit-listed today!

Does this mean my medical has cleared Ottawa?


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## Sam 45 (30 Aug 2009)

For me the waiting isn't so bad, but maybe that has something to do with being in Ottawa  ;D

Do what I do, instead of sitting around waiting and being anxious set some goals, physical or mental, and try to accomplish them by your next interview/medical/whatever date. For example I have my medical and interview on the 22nd, so my goals for then are:

- Double the amount of push-ups I can do comfortably
- Under 7:30 on a 2km run
- Start a more regular sleep cycle (get out of "vacation mode")
- Read up on the war, and war in general. I really recommend the books by Lt. Col. Grossman, an ex US Army Ranger/psychologist, called "On Combat" and "On Killing". There's also a really good book on Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan called "Fifteen Days" I'd recommend picking up

If you have little goals and stuff, sure you still have to deal with waiting, but you'll be more focused and hopefully start getting into a more military mindset so basic isn't so much of a culture shock. Also while you're waiting if you have any millitary friends, pick their brains about just general military life. I have a buddy who is a Sig Op, and we can talk for hours(well he talks I listen haha) about things the recruiters don't tell you. Like how the army wont pay for laser eye surgery, but they will get you a sex change operation. Also, basic stories are awesome in a kind of twisted way and normally good for a laugh.

Don't worry about getting in, if it doesn't happen that sucks and you'll have to move on, but in my mind right now I don't even consider that as an option. Just don't let the waiting game get to you.


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## LatvianLegion (31 Aug 2009)

No I'm certainly not waiting around. I started my own PT a few months ago when I decided to put in an application. I used to run a lot (especially when I was training for the RCMP tests) and got out of shape in grad school. Now I get up and run 6 days a week at 6:30 am (and I don't start at my work until 5pm!) and I am working on pushups etc too. If anything a longer wait will mean I'm more prepared for basic.

I have a lot on my reading list too. Right now I'm reading a historical survey of Latvia (imagine that) but I was thinking of reading from the very beginning of war theory (The Art of War) next! I think all of this will come in handy. I plan to specialize, if I can and am permitted to, in Eastern Europe and Russia eventually. I find the Afghan war quite interesting too, especially since it was already proved an impossible victory by the Soviets in the 1980s! The only way they were able to defeat geurilla warfare in Eastern Europe was to deport thousands upon thousands of innocent, complicit, and pro-geurilla farmers to Siberia. I'm not sure that's a humane solution!


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## aesop081 (31 Aug 2009)

LatvianLegion said:
			
		

> I find the Afghan war quite interesting too, especially since it was already proved an impossible victory by the Soviets in the 1980s!



 :

I think you need to do more reading before comparing apples to oranges.


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## LatvianLegion (31 Aug 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> :
> 
> I think you need to do more reading before comparing apples to oranges.



Reading is always good and sometimes changes opinions; however, that comment does not! Thanks though.


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## Sam 45 (1 Sep 2009)

The Afghan mission is not impossible(all my knowledge is secondhand, so feel free to correct me if you've been there/know more than I do), from what I've read it just seems like fear is so ingrained into the Afghan population that it's going to be hard to make fast progress. Don't forget that so far we have made a lot of headway to improving the quality of live of these people, while dealing a significant blow to the global drug trade. Life in Afghanistan still sucks, but we are helping make it better.

The art of war and millitary history/strategy are interesting, but I find studying the more human aspects of war and combat to be much more fufilling. The Grossman studies I've read have really taught me things about the dirty, real side of warfare. Highly recommended if you have the time.


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## LatvianLegion (2 Sep 2009)

Sam 45 said:
			
		

> The Afghan mission is not impossible(all my knowledge is secondhand, so feel free to correct me if you've been there/know more than I do), from what I've read it just seems like fear is so ingrained into the Afghan population that it's going to be hard to make fast progress. Don't forget that so far we have made a lot of headway to improving the quality of live of these people, while dealing a significant blow to the global drug trade. Life in Afghanistan still sucks, but we are helping make it better.
> 
> The art of war and millitary history/strategy are interesting, but I find studying the more human aspects of war and combat to be much more fufilling. The Grossman studies I've read have really taught me things about the dirty, real side of warfare. Highly recommended if you have the time.



Thanks. Will do (someday). My reading list grows faster than I can do the reading.

I suppose you could say comparing the Afghan missions would be comparing apples to oranges in the same way as the Napoleonic and Nazi invasions of Russia were apples and oranges. They faced the same perils though and lost for the same reasons.

I think a large part of what will make our current mission winnable or not is what the definition of victory is.

This thread is getting off topic. Sorry!


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## SomethingImportant (2 Sep 2009)

Not sure if I have been very lucky or what, but.... I had by CFAT, medical and interview all on the same day 2 weeks ago and RC called me today to say that they would be inviting me to the NOAB on Sept 28th.  I am very happy! :nod:


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## Sam 45 (3 Sep 2009)

LatvianLegion said:
			
		

> Thanks. Will do (someday). My reading list grows faster than I can do the reading.
> 
> I suppose you could say comparing the Afghan missions would be comparing apples to oranges in the same way as the Napoleonic and Nazi invasions of Russia were apples and oranges. They faced the same perils though and lost for the same reasons.
> 
> ...



I don't wanna derail this any further, but I think the key difference you are missing is that unlike Napoleonic France or Nazi Germany, to conquer Afghanistan is not our end goal, and our main challenge is of a different nature(pun intended). Modern warfare in the middle east is drastically different than historical warfare. We fight militias and religious groups instead of a countries armed forces, so it's a lot harder to "win" in a conventional sense, but it is possible. Our commanders are approaching the issue logically, whereas Hitler and Napoleon where fighting an unbeatable force of nature because they got too big for their britches and thought themselves to be invincible.

While I agree that the problems we face are similar to the difficulties the Russians faced, but it's also important to remember the Russians weren't just fighting Afghans, that the Americans had their hands in the pot before the Russians even deployed. Their propaganda machine helped ingrain a hatred of the Communists before they ever invaded, which is why when they actually came in to the country, instead of pacifying the citizens they caused revolt. This time around there's no outside aide, and at least part of the civillian population is on our side. 

I think the situations are more different than they are similar, however you do make a very good, and very important point about the whole concept of "Victory" in the middle east that is lost on a lot of people (Bush, for example   ).


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## LatvianLegion (3 Sep 2009)

I appreciate your insight and information. You make some good points there.

The Germans also faced a battle against militias and what in Europe were called "Paritsans" or "Terrorists" depending on who you asked - but the German treatment of local populations was at least partially responsible for this phenomenon.

The big negative thing I feel about the Afghan mission is that they will simply vote themselves democratically into another dictatorship. The mechanics of democracy can be assembled but the culture of democracy is not an easy one to inculcate, although, in nations like Japan, it was possible.


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