# which roman general do you have most appreciation for



## sean m (19 Oct 2011)

H thello again everyone, 

Another professor brought up the the great question of ich roman general we appreciated most. EdThere are many fo us to choose from. Which general do you have most respect for.

For me, I would have to go with scipio aemilianus. He really has seemd to be a soldiers general. He seemed to have been the most capable general of his generation according to the book In The Name of Rome. He seems to have greatly added more discipline in the army wheb it was lacking. He commanded order for both officers and soldiers. He cared for the men who couldn't keep up.He had the same living standards as the ordinary soldier. He was a scholar and ,as showHe ed in the destruction of carthage, could sympath ize for his enemy captors. He was loyal to Rome and his men. . He also defeaed other North African threas.

It is to bad he is not as well known as a scipio africanus or julius caesar.

Which roman general then do you repect most?


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## jollyjacktar (19 Oct 2011)

Scipio Africanus I have head of, but not this chap.


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## a_majoor (19 Oct 2011)

Horrible counter examples:

Gaius Terentius Varro and Lucius Aemilius Paullus (Commanders during the Battle of Cannae)

Publius Quinctilius Varus (Battle of the Teutoburg Forest)

Marcus Licinius Crassus (Battle of Carrhae)

You can learn a lot by studying defeats as well as victories....


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## the 48th regulator (19 Oct 2011)

Biggus Diccus has my vote.

One of the few that truly captured the spirit of Rome in it's final throws...

dileas

tess


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## FlyingDutchman (19 Oct 2011)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Biggus Diccus has my vote.
> 
> One of the few that truly captured the spirit of Rome in it's final throws...
> 
> ...


I blame you for milk on my phone now, and an urge to watch The Life of Brian.


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## J.J (19 Oct 2011)

sean m said:
			
		

> H thello again everyone,
> 
> Another professor brought up the the great question of ich roman general we appreciated most. EdThere are many fo us to choose from. Which general do you have most respect for.
> 
> ...



You should ask recceguy, as he served under a few, he might have some personal insight.... ;D


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## Lowlander (19 Oct 2011)

What about Maximus Decimus Meridius?

On a more serious note I would have to say Caeser althought I dont know as much about roman history as I would like.


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## the 48th regulator (19 Oct 2011)

We sure are crossing the Rubicon with this topic.....

dileas

tess


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## BadgerTrapper (19 Oct 2011)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> We sure are crossing the Rubicon with this topic.....
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Subtle, I like it...


Personally, he's not Roman. However, in terms of Roman military history. Someone was going to say it, I'm a fan of Hannibal. The damnation of the Romans, Cannae anyone?


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## OldSolduer (19 Oct 2011)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> Marcus Licinius Crassus (Battle of Carrhae)
> 
> You can learn a lot by studying defeats as well as victories....



Yes, don't trust local guides. And don't ride off with a bunch of Parthean horsemen.

He lost his head over that.


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## PMedMoe (20 Oct 2011)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Biggus Diccus has my vote.



I read that all the women liked him.


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## Danjanou (20 Oct 2011)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Biggus Diccus has my vote.
> 
> One of the few that truly captured the spirit of Rome in it's final throws...
> 
> ...



 :rofl: :rofl:

i'll send you the bill for the new keyboard and monitor then shall I. 8)


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## vonGarvin (20 Oct 2011)

BadgerTrapper said:
			
		

> Subtle, I like it...
> 
> 
> Personally, he's not Roman. However, in terms of Roman military history. Someone was going to say it, I'm a fan of Hannibal. The damnation of the Romans, *Cannae *  anyone?


Zama?
While Cannae was a great victory for Hannibal, in the end, Zama was a greater victory for Rome, led by Scipio Africanus.  Zama ended the 2nd Punic War.


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## AJFitzpatrick (20 Oct 2011)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Zama?
> While Cannae was a great victory for Hannibal, in the end, Zama was a greater victory for Rome, led by Scipio Africanus.  Zama ended the 2nd Punic War.



[Pedantry]

He wasn't Scipio Africanus until after he lead the Romans to victory at Zama.  Just good old Publius Cornelius

[/Pedantry]

Wasn't exactly well treated by the Senate after the fact

Ingrata patria, ne ossa quidem habebis


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## jollyjacktar (20 Oct 2011)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Biggus Diccus has my vote.
> 
> One of the few that truly captured the spirit of Rome in it's final throws...
> 
> ...



Now was that "throes" as in last gasp of existance...  or throws as in doing a "spiderman web sling" on someone, which also could have some gasping involved  >


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## the 48th regulator (20 Oct 2011)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Now was that "throes" as in last gasp of existance...  or throws as in doing a "spiderman web sling" on someone, which also could have some gasping involved  >




Et tu, Brute?

dileas

tess


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## The Bread Guy (20 Oct 2011)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> > Biggus Diccus has my vote.
> >
> > One of the few that truly captured the spirit of Rome in it's final throws...
> >
> ...


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## vonGarvin (20 Oct 2011)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> [Pedantry]
> 
> He wasn't Scipio Africanus until after he lead the Romans to victory at Zama.  Just good old Publius Cornelius
> 
> [/Pedantry]


Very good point. I should have pointed out his very title for his victory.  Anyway, this thread isn't about the best General, but the one for whom you have the most appreciation.   My answer remains Scipio Africanus, for his victories that won the Second Punic War.


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## Edward Campbell (20 Oct 2011)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Very good point. I should have pointed out his very title for his victory.  Anyway, this thread isn't about the best General, but *the one for whom you have the most appreciation*.   My answer remains Scipio Africanus, for his victories that won the Second Punic War.




On that basis: Trajan (Marcus Ulpius Nerva Trajanus Augustus)


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## helpup (20 Oct 2011)

Flavius Belisarius (Greek: Βελισάριος, ca. AD 500[1] – AD 565) was a general of the Byzantine Empire. He was instrumental to Emperor Justinian's ambitious project of reconquering much of the Mediterranean territory of the former Western Roman Empire, which had been lost less than a century previously.

One of the defining features of Belisarius' career was his success despite the little or no support he received from Justinian. He is also among a select group of men considered by historians to be the "Last of the Romans".

As taken from Wikipedia,  I got interested in the man from reading a alternative history novel.  He is considered one of the most successfull Roman Generals.


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Oct 2011)

WR said:
			
		

> You should ask recceguy, as he served under a few, he might have some personal insight.... ;D


Hey! I'm in the room here! :clubinhand:


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## Danjanou (20 Oct 2011)

WR said:
			
		

> You should ask recceguy, as he served under a few, he might have some personal insight.... ;D



You'd have to do a wikisearch under his Latin name

_*Reccius Crownroyalis Baggis*_    :stirpot:


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## Furniture (20 Oct 2011)

I personally whould have to choose Gaius Marius. While he isn't famous for his conquests he is famous for the way he restructured the entire way the Roman army worked. Without his reforms the Roman empire would quite likely have been much smaller and potentially a minor footnote in history. 

Having said that I am aware that at some point another leader would have had the same idea, but it is equally true that another general would most likely have conqured Gaul or Dacia as well.


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## the 48th regulator (20 Oct 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> You'd have to do a wikisearch under his Latin name
> 
> _*Reccius Crownroyalis Baggis*_    :stirpot:



 :rofl:


I like Ceaser, as he gave us salads, and a tasty drink.

Not to mention Kicked ass from Rome, to London.   Made them Gaels bow before him so he did.  Then came back, crossed a River, and forced his way to become Emperor.  

BTW, did I mention how tasty a Ceaser Drink is?  Kicks a bloody Mary's ass any day.

dileas

tess


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## vonGarvin (20 Oct 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> You'd have to do a wikisearch under his Latin name
> 
> _*Reccius Crownroyalis Baggis*_    :stirpot:


Tsk Tsk:
More properly, it's this:
Sacculum Diademate


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## AJFitzpatrick (20 Oct 2011)

Gaius Julius Caesar for me 

Pretty good self-publist as well ... seems to be an essential trait to be appreciated,





No love for Maximus Decimus Meridius?


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## sean m (21 Oct 2011)

excellent choices gentlemen, and great jokes haha.

Thank god for the Romans or who knows what we would call some of our beverages.

Gaius Marius indeed is a great choice Mr.Weatherdog, it helps to how he was a commoner as well and changed the army to allow more of the poorer men join the legions, since before him you had to have a significant plot of land to join the legion. 

@ Mr. JollyJackStar.  Scipio Aemilanus was the adopted son of the son of Scipio Africanus.

@ Mr. Technoviking excellent choice of Scipio Africanus. Have you ever read B.H Liddel Hart "Scipio Greater Than Napoleon" great book, too bad he did not get the credit he deserved as well.

@Mr.ErCampbel, Augustus too was a great general, do you think though that alot of his sucesss was do to Julius Caesar setting the building blocks ahead of time?

@ Mr. Helpup, Belisarius was as well a great  commander, yet again not given proper recognition. 

@Mr.Fitzpatrick, great choice as well for Julius Caesar. It seems he really had a more public impact on Rome than other generals.

It is interesting how even though Rome had such a great military, they also had many failures as was listed prior. It seems that most of the generals came from privileged backgrounds. 

They also did not seem to have any military college to train the generals, do you think this was a mistake or not?


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Oct 2011)

sean m said:
			
		

> They also did not seem to have any military college to train the generals, do you think this was a mistake or not?



I _think_ you should do some of your own research


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## Furniture (21 Oct 2011)

sean m said:
			
		

> They also did not seem to have any military college to train the generals, do you think this was a mistake or not?



Based on my admittedly limited reading, I would say that more often than not is was hindrance. The Romans were more than willing to accept the plebs as foot soldiers but they did not go so far as to accept that a common man could lead troops with proper training. They favoured the idea that only those with a specific pedigree were capable of leading troops, which was quite common until the last century. With that said, it's not as if the Romans didn't have a professional development system for their most senior officers. Any young man who wished to have a life as a senator or general had to spend some time a junior officer in a legion. I believe that most Tribunes in a legion were young men of "noble" birth.


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## Edward Campbell (21 Oct 2011)

sean m said:
			
		

> ...
> @Mr.ErCampbel, Augustus too was a great general, do you think though that alot of his sucesss was do to Julius Caesar setting the building blocks ahead of time?
> ...




I hope you are not confusing Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus (23 Sep 63 BCE – 19 Aug 14 CE) with Marcus Ulpius Nerva Trajanus Augustus (18 Sep53 CE – 9 Aug 117 CE) both took the agnomen _Audustus_ (Majestic), but Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus was born Gaius Octavius, he was the great nephew of Julius Caesar and took the name Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (Octavian) in 44 BCE after the murder of his great uncle.






Gaius Julius Caesar (Octavian) Augustus

Trajan was born Marcus Ulpius Traianus; he was adopted by the Emperor Nerva in part to placate the army.





Marcus Ulpius Nerva Trajanus Augustus

Two quite different people, separated by about a century.


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## sean m (24 Oct 2011)

@ Mr. Campbell thank you for differentiating the two. Possibly quite a few people would not know Trajan's name in full.

@Mr.weatherdog, thank you for your information. Perhaps that was sufficient enough training. perhaps some military historians have over looked this idea, since some seem to state that the army was affected by a lack of a military college.

@mr.recceguy, Thank you for your input.  haha that is one possibility. but it is also great to have such knowledgable gentlemen and ladies present here in this forum, who have done such great things for this country and could relate to the military careers of some of these romans.


Has anyone here heard about Quintus Sertorius. He was during and after the time of Garius Marius.  The professor states that he was the first roman general who fought unconventional warfare during the civil war.  He seems like a very interesting person. 

Does anyone else have any information on any other roman generals who specialized in unconventional warfare or intelligence gathering. Supposedly the intelligence gathering capabilites of the roman empire was very good. What do you think about their intelligence gathering system.


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