# ISAF Boss Considering Rules of Road, Presence Engagement?



## The Bread Guy (28 Jul 2009)

This, from Wired.com's Danger Room blog:


> .... Canadian Brig. Gen. Eric Tremblay, spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force, told Danger Room that (Gen. Stanley) McChrystal was considering a new directive that would set the tone for working among the population, while “maintaining the delicate balance” between cultural sensitivity and protecting the force.
> 
> *“The commander is maybe thinking of producing COIN [counterinsurgency] guidance that will govern day-to-day interactions with Afghans,” he said. “And that may cover tactical driving both in Kabul and outside, and it may also deal with how you portray yourself with Afghans — but also leaving it to the tactical commander or the commander on the ground to decide.”*
> 
> Tremblay, who previously served a tour as the deputy chief of staff of the Kabul Multinational Brigade in 2004, said that he had not seen any particularly menacing behavior by security convoys. “I’ve been here five weeks, and I have yet to observe that in Kabul,” he said....



Micromanagement?  I guess it'll depend on what the rules are like, if they are developed.


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## Jarnhamar (28 Jul 2009)

Someone should politely remind him there's a big difference between Kabul and Khandahar.

Or perhaps invite him to drive on the streets of both and judge for himself.


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## The Bread Guy (28 Jul 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Someone should politely remind him there's a big difference between Kabul and Khandahar.
> 
> Or perhaps invite him to drive on the streets of both and judge for himself.



Only based on what was quoted, it appears that'll be covered:


> “The commander is maybe thinking of producing COIN [counterinsurgency] guidance that will govern day-to-day interactions with Afghans,” he said. “*And that may cover tactical driving both in Kabul and outside*, and it may also deal with how you portray yourself with Afghans — but also leaving it to the tactical commander or the commander on the ground to decide.”



What makes me scratch my head is why someone thinks there's a need to develop rules like "watch out for other people on the road" - isn't that what judgement is for with rules already in place? - unless the new (allegedly proposed) rules become a way to let the bad guy get closer more easily to ISAF troops....


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## daftandbarmy (28 Jul 2009)

Just like the Commander Land Forces (CLF) directives in Northen Ireland: the height of micromanagement. 

These were sent out on a regular basis from the CLF, a LGen, to all troops in  theatre and included such drops of wisdom as:

"When in contact, all troops will drop their bergens and engage in hot pursuit'.... need I say 'Duh?'

Needless to say, they were the subject of much amusement and curiosity, and we all resolved never to become LGens and debase ourselves in this manner. In case you haven't noticed, I have kept my word to this day!

Nevertheless, I still don't understand why senior leaders feel the need to pull the puppet strings in this way. Probably because the Strategic Corporal is doing such a good job that the Tactical Generals have nothing better to do.  ;D


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## The Bread Guy (29 Jul 2009)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Probably because the Strategic Corporal is doing such a good job that the Tactical Generals have nothing better to do.  ;D


"Cutting one's grass" is such a harsh term, right?  ;D


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## Gunner98 (29 Jul 2009)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Nevertheless, I still don't understand why senior leaders feel the need to pull the puppet strings in this way. Probably because the Strategic Corporal is doing such a good job that the Tactical Generals have nothing better to do. ;D



Sometimes the directives from the ISAF level are more for the governments back home to feel better about things.  They often arise in response to Ministerial or Congressional inquiries. Once released to the subordinate commands little (or nothing) changes but the Commander can assure the contributing nation's governments (and MSM) that he has clarified or emphasized their concerns through his amplified directive.


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## Roy Harding (29 Jul 2009)

Frostnipped Elf said:
			
		

> Sometimes the directives from the ISAF level are more for the governments back home to feel better about things.  They often arise in response to Ministerial or Congressional inquiries. Once released to the subordinate commands little (or nothing) changes but the Commander can assure the contributing nation's governments (and MSM) that he has clarified or emphasized their concerns through his amplified directive.



That's a good point.  At the ISAF level, EVERYTHING is politics.  It's up to the leadership chain between "the top" and the boots on the ground to sort things out for the troops.


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## The Bread Guy (29 Jul 2009)

Frostnipped Elf said:
			
		

> Sometimes the directives from the ISAF level are more for the governments back home to feel better about things.


Not to mention the host government possibly feeling better about things - good point.


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## Gunner98 (29 Jul 2009)

When I left last Dec there were 16 officers of General rank in ISAF HQ.  Each contributing nation has its own version of ROE.  Directives tend to be as you correctly state also as much for the comfort of the Afghan government, citizens and their spin doctors. With the election looming in less than one month, it is important for ISAF to present the country as safe, responsible and stable an environment as possible. The new Comd ISAF & staff of Generals have not been as "directive" as their predecessors, who were almost knee-jerking to each 'significant' incident.


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## MarkOttawa (27 Aug 2009)

_Torch_ post, with links to text:

COMISAF COIN GUIDANCE 
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/08/comisaf-coin-guidance.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (27 Aug 2009)

More:

Afstan: The right commander for the job gives "Guidance"
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/08/afstan-right-commander-for-job-gives.html



> Further to Terry Glavin's remarks at this post,
> http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/08/comisaf-coin-guidance.html
> I think he is quite right. Here again is the "Guidance" to the troops from ISAF commander General McChrystal.
> http://www.nato.int/isaf/docu/official_texts/counterinsurgency_guidance.pdf
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## ltmaverick25 (27 Aug 2009)

In my opinion, Gen. McChrystal played a large role in what success the Americans did have with COIN in Iraq.  Something tells me he is up to the job in Afghanistan as well.

If one follows the COIN doctrine, it becomes painfully obvious that only the local population can defeat an insurgency.  Thats why were seeing these new directives about tactical driving coming out.  The problem with just focusing on killing the bad guys is, that for every Afghan Taliban member you kill,  you create three more Taliban who are relatives or friends of the deceased that are now looking for revenge.  Thats why this doctrine calls for the use of a surgical scalple to take out high impact targets, as opposed to mowing down the average joe Taliban fighter.

The only real flaw I see with this sort of strategy is that, by its very nature, it is a long term strategy.  Which makes it a marathon race.  Can we fully win over the population before the Taliban can attrit puplic opinion to the point where Western governments feel they need to pull out.


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## GAP (27 Aug 2009)

Well Scott Taylor is adding his 2 cents tonight on CBC. He was spouting off that Afghanistan can never become a democracy, the Taliban love having NATO there because they would have a civil war if they weren't....Afghanistan should become a collection of War Lord States with a central (something)......I turned it off after that....


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## ltmaverick25 (28 Aug 2009)

I think that Scott Taylor would have been more accurate in saying that it would be EXTREMELY difficult to bring about a western style democracy in Afghanistan in the short term.  The Afghan culture is just too different from our own to have our exact system of government work.  Moreover, Afghan culture itself has gone through radical transformation and, to some extent, destruction over the past 30 years.  That is not to say that a democratic system isnt possible, just that it would look very different from ours.

Going to a system of warlords certainly isnt the answer.  In fact, no system will ever work there until they fix the ANP.  Talk about an unrelenting catastrophe...


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## The Bread Guy (30 Aug 2009)

As promised, they're reportedly out according to this NATO/ISAF statement:


> ISAF Commander Issues Driving Directive and Theatre Driving Principles
> Today at 6:19am
> 2009-08-[M]-651
> 
> ...


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## medicineman (31 Aug 2009)

I don't recall many traffic rules and or regulations in Afghanistan - thought it was he with the loudest horn and heaviest foot won, and barring that, the biggest vehicle.  All of course while adhering to the "Inshallah Principle" - if God wills me to get through or by the convoy alive, then so be it.  Kind of like how they cross the roads on foot there...

MM


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## PuckChaser (31 Aug 2009)

They have ANP officers at the traffic circles and intersections... I always found it amusing when he waved our convoys through. "Thanks tips, we were going anyway!"


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## Gunner98 (31 Aug 2009)

How will this change the SOP of "as fast as possible, staggered covering the width of the road", like an unrelenting, heavily armed steam roller?


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