# What  Army kit do we need that we don't have



## canuck101 (4 Aug 2004)

I was wondering if there is any army equipment ie vehicles or weapons that we need that we don't have.

Cheers


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## sinblox (4 Aug 2004)

Camelbaks.. but I think they're in production or something like that? I'm not sure.  Most people buy them anyway.


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## canuck101 (4 Aug 2004)

Do you mean that the CF is thinking of getting Camelbaks. It seems to be a great product to have if since we are in Afghanistan and Haiti.


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## Sundborg (4 Aug 2004)

canuck101 said:
			
		

> I was wondering if there is any army equipment ie vehicles or weapons that we need that we don't have.
> 
> Cheers



I'm sure the Canadian Army could use a lot of things.  Most things that the USA has we could use, let's just put it that way. (I'm also sure there are a lot of things we could do without.)


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## AmmoTech90 (4 Aug 2004)

Camelbaks ares available for issue for missions.  Even in Cadpat.  A picture of the Cadpat one has been posted recently in the Equipment forum.


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## combat_medic (4 Aug 2004)

I think the CF could certainly invest in some tolerable wet weather gear. Something that is *gasp* waterproof and reasonably breatheable similar to the British or German goretex rain gear. 

Can you tell I'm in Vancouver?


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Aug 2004)

It's in the works, but like everything else, we'll wait and wait and....... ;D


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## AmmoTech90 (4 Aug 2004)

The CF has goretex, CADPAT wet weather gear.  It's the Army that doesn't...

The Airforce has some quite nice rain gear.


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## Big Happy (4 Aug 2004)

Kit we need? How bout soldiers!!


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## Scott (4 Aug 2004)

Brass magnets


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## Gunnerlove (5 Aug 2004)

New night vision and lots of it.


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## Michael Dorosh (5 Aug 2004)

The Army managed to win two world wars and fight to a tie in Korea while using enamelled water bottles; how do you justify camelbaks as a "necessity"?


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## Danjanou (5 Aug 2004)

Do you want the list alphabetically, or chronologically?

Where to begin. ???

We need:

-MBTs real ones and more than enough to quip one Regt.
-New and improved Anti Armour systems (fire and forget) and I said systems , Bn, Coy and Pl levels
-More LAVs again enough to equip all of our units including reserves and a stockpile for the training centres and for immediate deployment on ops (a la REFORGER POCUMUS sites), this applies to soft skinned vehicles, guns and panzers too
-New tubes for the Arty Sp and towed 155mm & 105mm
-New Air defence system(s)
- New and effective soft skinned vehicles
-Helios (tactical that bloody work, medium to heavy lift and attack)
-Sufficient small arms to outfit all troops icluding EIS training aids etc and a war reserve for spare
-Uniforms and equipment to same scale
-New PMQs 
-Training centres with realistic large FIBUA/FISH whatever we call it this week sites, MILES, Simunition or whatever turns your crank
Sufficient stocks of ammo/pyro etc to run an acceptable number of FTXs (including live fire) a year for all troopies
-More troopies, lots more troopies
-Strategic air and sea lift capabilities so we can get to wherever it is we have to get to without bumming a lift off of our big brother to the south.
-Big whopping infusions of cash and a responsible adult to spend it properly
-Leaders, Senior uniformed types, civy, and elected with a pair of stones (apologies to the testicular challenged)


Hey as long as we're dreaming here, dream big. Get the last on that list and the rest is easy.


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## Jason Bourne (5 Aug 2004)

I'm liking the new NVG's for the troops..ever try chasing racoons around in the dark on fire picket at 3am...*sigh* life in army


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## PTE Gruending (5 Aug 2004)

We also fought WW I & II using horses, why are you guys whining for new LAV's?





			
				Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> The Army managed to win two world wars and fight to a tie in Korea while using enamelled water bottles; how do you justify camelbaks as a "necessity"?


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## Michael Dorosh (5 Aug 2004)

Gruending said:
			
		

> We also fought WW I & II using horses, why are you guys whining for new LAV's?
> 
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> 
> ...



Because they have wheels and armour plate, mount substantial weapons, go faster than horses, don't make the mess horses do, and don't have to be fed large amounts of fodder.

Any other brilliant comments, oh so witty one?


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## Danjanou (5 Aug 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Gruending said:
> 
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On the downside though if your logistics train falls apart you can't cook and eat a LAV ;D


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## jonsey (5 Aug 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> The Army managed to win two world wars and fight to a tie in Korea while using enamelled water bottles; how do you justify camelbaks as a "necessity"?



By that logic, you could say that modern assault rifles, tanks, planes, helicopters (well, not OURS  ), CADPAT, GPS devices, and the like are not a necessity. They may not be, but it could be argued that these make a soldiers job relatively easier (not that it's anywhere near easy). Yeah, the Army used that equipment, and used it well, but it's been 50 years, advancements are made, and soldiers should use the equipment that best assists their job. 


Camelbacks can hold more than a standard water bottle, can be worn on your back, in a rucksack, and have a drinking tube that can be positioned to be near the mouth for quick access (and isn't there a piece you could buy so that you can operate the drinking apeture solely using your mouth, for hands free use?). 


Just like LAV's have many advancements over horses, Camelback-style water containers have many advantages over regular bottles.


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## MJP (5 Aug 2004)

Canteens are slowly going the way of the dodo as the primary water source for allot of militaries, ourselves included.   That not to say that they  we don't need them or that they don't work, but there is a better hydration system is out there for the troops.   I personally like a combo of Nalgene and Camelbak in my kit but that's just because I've seen cheap camel bak bladders break under stress.   

Camelbaks are much better than the standard canteen, because you can drink while moving, and without taking your hands off your weapon, while in a concealed position, 

Hand-Free Access â â€œ Keep your eyes and hands focused on you mission. 
Carries More Water â â€œ Up to 3-Liter capacity, so you don't run out. 
Keeps Liquids Cool for Hours â â€œ Insulated reservoir compartment, so you drink more. 

With the CamelBak Hydration System, you: 

Protect soldier's health â â€œ avoiding heat illness by avoiding dehydration. 
Be more effective â â€œ keeping soldiers alert and focused. 
Maintain performance â â€œ dehydration can cause serious fatigue and reduced muscle endurance

Without the bulky canteen banging on their hips, it's easier for soldiers to squeeze into combat vehicles and climb through windows during urban combat. However some models of Camelbak allow you to get hung up on stuff just as easily, but so does the new TV for that matter.   


As for the guys wishing for new Night Vision and it related paraphernalia have you used the new AN/PVS-14?   The AN/PVS-14 (the monocular) is an excellent piece of kit and in combination with a AN/PAQ-4 or AN/PAQ-2, makes night operations allot easier.

Check them out here
http://www.nightoperations.com/CDN-equipment.htm

I like your list Danjanou...


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## Pugnacious (5 Aug 2004)

Hmmm pretty sad that the average Westcoast mountain biker who btw most certanly has a camel back water system, and gortex rain gear (Also GPS etc) is better equipped for the elements then one of our Soldiers.   At one time Army stuff led the way for outdoor gear.

So the question is if you buy the stuff yourself can you use it while on duty?

Cheers!
P.


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## Michael Dorosh (5 Aug 2004)

MJP - a real answer, thank you.

Can you use a camelbak while wearing the NBC suit, out of curiousity?


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## MJP (5 Aug 2004)

Yea they have one for a chemical environment, don't know how good it is in comparison to a canteen for protection but my bet is offers the same protection.   In either case I wouldn't want to be the first one to drink     

http://www.camelbak.com/mil/cb_prod.cfm?catid=6&product_id=65


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## Armymedic (6 Aug 2004)

Ref Micheal's post,

Yes, and its better then the 1 qt canteen, because it doesn't "suck in" air after drinking due to decreased pressure in the canteen (physics thingy I am sure you know). This is one area where Camelbacks are miles ahead of our canteens. The 2 Qt canteen is the best option between the two when fitted with the drinking straw which of course can come fitted with an Camel back style NBC nozzle.

This is one of these great theory topics which can help keep you alert during those long night shifts.

In reality, what we "need" (not "want") is the things that make us more effective, sometimes the new or improved may not be the best.  

One case and point may be the Rucksack we have. The 64 pattern (jump ruck) is a effective  and durable tool which many of us prefer over the civilian packs because of the amount you can carry. It was replaced by 82 pattern. some ways better cause you can get into it easier, but can't carry more as comfortably. 
Maybe, instead of a new style rucksack, they should have gotten better shoulder straps and padding for the back to make it more comfortable....Small thing makes it better, not a whole new system.

just my 2 bits...


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## Pugnacious (6 Aug 2004)

iPods!  ;D

Cheers!
P.


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## Armymedic (6 Aug 2004)

Actually, hand held computer like a palm pilot with a GPS capability would be good too. Info such as FSOPs and current map data would be benifical.


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## combat_medic (9 Aug 2004)

But if it was made by the CF it would be a 40-pound green screen Apple 486 that would run out of juice every 2 hours, and wouldn't work in wet weather.


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## Infanteer (9 Aug 2004)

> But if it was made by the CF it would be a 40-pound green screen Apple 486 that would run out of juice every 2 hours, and wouldn't work in wet weather.



And don't forget made in Quebec at four times the cost it could be to get it made by Texas Instruments....


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## Pugnacious (9 Aug 2004)

LOL! This brings up memories of  those old pics of the old Army 'wireless phones'.  
They were so damn big they looked like they used a Motorcycle battery!  ;D

Cheers!
P.


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## jonsey (9 Aug 2004)

combat_medic said:
			
		

> But if it was made by the CF it would be a 40-pound green screen Apple 486 that would run out of juice every 2 hours, and wouldn't work in wet weather.






<Apple never made a 486. The 486 is an Intel architecture chip.>


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## Pugnacious (10 Aug 2004)

Oh man the last thing we need is something running a Windows operating system. 

Cheers!
P.


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## Da_man (10 Aug 2004)

New radios...  I hate the ones we have now.


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## Pugnacious (10 Aug 2004)

This may be a silly question...

Does the Canadian Army have some sort of R&D group made up of Soldiers in the field that can test equpiment before, and even after production runs and contracts?  If not why not?

Cheers!
P.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Aug 2004)

Why do you hate the new radios da_man?


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## Inch (10 Aug 2004)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Actually, hand held computer like a palm pilot with a GPS capability would be good too. Info such as FSOPs and current map data would be benifical.



I'm pretty sure I've seen guys around sqn that are trialling issued Blackberries. I don't know jack about Palms or Blackberries so I don't know their capabilities but I've heard the Blackberries are pretty good kit and the company is based in Waterloo Ontario.

Cheers


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## Da_man (10 Aug 2004)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Why do you hate the new radios da_man?



I dont know if they are the new ones, but im talking about this radio 








I have yet to find a confortable way of carrying it and the long antena will whip anyone behind you


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## Bean (11 Aug 2004)

Inch has touched on one piece of technology that is fairly available and quite useful for the support trades.  The Blackberry devices are available under a government wide standing offer.  Mine is strapped to my hip all of the time around the office, and usually at the squadron, and I even have used it in the field (both with cadets and with the PRes in my prior role).  As a functional piece of field support equipement for those on the sharp end, it doesn't go far enough.  In 2000 when working at NDHQ we were looking at a real time, wireless situational awareness system that could provide basic map functionality along with tracking of personnel and other resources (armour, air support, etc.) within a specific area od operations.  Trialed it Wainwright, Gagetown, and Pet.  It was a multi-purpose system and several other departments were also involved.  Eventually, the gear we were testing was deemed not suitable for the CF (although it held up well in the field).  Not sure if they have started a new project for the CF, but I know some departments on the civi side have adopted much of the technology for their security and safety systems.

The US Army has a solider systems directorate looking at and providing this gear, which is where we orginally got the trial units, but I'm nopt sure how far they've gone.  The basic unit had a handheld full colour display with a larger unit (about the size of the man pack radio) to be carried or veh mounted for platoon/company comnaders.  Let us see where troops of a specific section, pltn, coy, etc were based on the neds of the viewer.  Will see if I can find anyone working on this now for an update.


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## devil39 (13 Aug 2004)

Da_man said:
			
		

> I dont know if they are the new ones, but im talking about this radio
> 
> <snip deleted image of soldier with assault radio on back>
> 
> ...



Lay it horizontal and strap it to the top of your butt pack underneath the top straps.

Alternatively, sling it separate and underneath your webbing (stops it from moving around as much).


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