# 522 Manpack



## BKells (17 Aug 2005)

So I'm PL signaller on stalwart guardian (that'll teach me to take a comms course). Any advice on configurations for moving around with this thing? Like, on ruck marches, etc.


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## buzgo (17 Aug 2005)

Use your rucksack or the small pack.


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## ImanIdiot (17 Aug 2005)

Ooooh, Pl signaller. I'm so sorry  

I was Pl sigs(and I don't even have a comms course!) for cougar salvo in march. Prior to that, my time with the 522 had been fairly limited. I found the manpack to be REALLY hard on my shoulders. I don't know if it was just that particular manpack or if they are all like that...but after the first couple days it was driving me crazy. Luckily, I had a patrol bag that I had purchased from the WATC kitshop several years ago. The 522 fit in there quite nicely, and was infinitely more comfortable. When the time came to ruck up, I attached the patrol bag to the outside of my ruck. No problems.

Have fun out there. 2 1, out.


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## MikeM (17 Aug 2005)

Take the 522 itself and put it between your sleeping bag valise and main compartment of your ruck.


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## BKells (18 Aug 2005)

MikeM said:
			
		

> Take the 522 itself and put it between your sleeping bag valise and main compartment of your ruck.



Interesting.. Explain.


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## m410 (18 Aug 2005)

If you use the issue 522 harness (which is a strange contraption), be sure to do up the strap that goes across your chest.  It will greatly reduce the load across your shoulders.
There is no good way to use the 522 with 82 pattern rucksack.  It is slightly longer than the 77 set and doesn't fit in the rucksack properly.  I have never put the radio above the valise like MikeM mentioned but that is certainly worth experimenting with.  That's the sort of thing that makes the 64 pattern ruck very good.

A tip for cold weather operations: putting your 521 radio inside your sleeping bag (with the headset sticking out) will save some battery life.  I'm not sure if it feasible to stick a 522 there.  Anyone try that out?


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## JimmyPeeOn (18 Aug 2005)

If youre using webbing, strap it on the front of you. If you're using the tacvest, put it between the valise and ruck bag, or in the ruckbag.  The reason its rough on your back is probably the metal edges on the frame. Hold it down and torque the straps on the outside until the thing is almost U shape and you should be fine.

Cheers;
Andrew


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## Bomber for Life (18 Aug 2005)

BKells said:
			
		

> So I'm PL signaller on stalwart guardian (that'll teach me to take a comms course). Any advice on configurations for moving around with this thing? Like, on ruck marches, etc.



Dump the harness that comes with it and put it in an NBC bag or small pack.


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## Redeye (18 Aug 2005)

If you can get your hands on one of the new Small Pack Systems they are built to carry a 522 and are quite comfortable for doing so, otherwise as is suggested, to the greatest extent possible secure it in some sort of other pack, the issued manpacks are uncomfortable and in many cases N/S.


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## Matt_Fisher (18 Aug 2005)

What ruck are you currently using?
If you're currently using the 64 as your main ruck, then you can just strap the radio to the frame above your main bag and behind the valise.

How about using just a bare ALICE or 64 frame with shoulder straps/kidney belt and some 1" webbing and assorted fastex hardware to rig up a frame for the thing?   ALICE frame may be preferable as you can use the 'cargo shelf' attachment.  

If you're using the 82 pack, then you might want to try and cram it in to your main bag to the best of your ability, or you could leave it attached to the ALICE frame and lash it to the exterior of your pack (good luck on that) with 1" webbing and quick release buckles.  

I've attached a couple pics of the Cargo shelf and how it attaches to the ALICE frame.


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## BKells (18 Aug 2005)

No, I'm using the 84 pattern ruck. Yet ANOTHER reason that makes me question why we ever came out with the 84 pattern ruck in the first place.

I think I'll have to go with stuffing it in a patrol pack and walking around with that all day, probably the best option that's available to me.

I'll follow this post up when stalwart is over with what I found worked for me.


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## The_Falcon (18 Aug 2005)

Remember to leave the top flap undone, so your sunray can play with the radio without trying to find all the buckles that will open the flap.


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## JimmyPeeOn (19 Aug 2005)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Remember to leave the top flap undone, so your sunray can play with the radio without trying to find all the buckles that will open the flap.


Don't do that!  Don't let him screw around with YOUR radio, maybe, if he's good let him grab the handset, nothing more!  Once people start screwing with knobs and buttons you'd be surprised how quicky you ger zeroised or looze your freq's.


Cheers; 
Andrew


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## The_Falcon (19 Aug 2005)

JimmyPeOn said:
			
		

> Don't do that!   Don't let him screw around with YOUR radio, maybe, if he's good let him grab the handset, nothing more!   Once people start screwing with knobs and buttons you'd be surprised how quicky you ger zeroised or looze your freq's.
> 
> 
> Cheers;
> Andrew



I dunno, those bars tend to be higher up the totem pole than my two chevrons.  I don't see myself winning here.


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## m410 (19 Aug 2005)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> I dunno, those bars tend to be higher up the totem pole than my two chevrons.  I don't see myself winning here.


Ya, lippy signallers might quickly find themselves moved to the 84mm or perhaps carrying around filled sandbags... just in case.

That said, do up all flaps, straps, snaps, buttons, clips, and fasteners.  Nobody likes insecure mission-essential kit.  Just be sure that any radio on your back is accessible to another person, which means that the bottom of the display panel should be away from your body.  Putting the 521 in its case backwards is a leading cause of knob drift.


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## JimmyPeeOn (23 Aug 2005)

What reason would he have to play around with your radio?  :threat:  The only thing he should have to touch is the PTT and the handset.  Ive seen a lot of comms go astray from someone else messing with the sigs kit.  I do agree with putting  it in so the LED screen is towards your back though.  Makes things easier to see for SOMEONE ELSE WITH A COMMS COURSE.

Cheers;
Andrew


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## The_Falcon (23 Aug 2005)

JimmyPeOn said:
			
		

> What reason would he have to play around with your radio?   :threat:   The only thing he should have to touch is the PTT and the handset.   Ive seen a lot of comms go astray from someone else messing with the sigs kit.   I do agree with putting   it in so the LED screen is towards your back though.   Makes things easier to see for SOMEONE ELSE WITH A COMMS COURSE.
> 
> Cheers;
> Andrew



Who knows why.  All I know is that if your officer wants access, you give them access.


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## JimmyPeeOn (24 Aug 2005)

I still don't agree, : wht reason could he have?  If you have done your job, why would he be messing with your radio?


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## The_Falcon (24 Aug 2005)

Cause he might want to turn up/down the volume, change freqs, be a tard.  I am not him.  I just do what I am told.  As far as I know him saying he wants access is a lawful command.  .


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## JimmyPeeOn (25 Aug 2005)

The volume should always be at full blast on a combat net,  so he can hear whats going on when the firing starts.  Unless youre on a Recce.  If you need to swithch over to your admin net, then theres no rush.  Take it off your back and switch it for him.  All I'm saying is that Ive see na lot of comms flop and manpacks mysteriously zeroised, when a young Lt starts playing with dials.  If you guys really want to take the chance thats up to you.  Personally, they dont even come in the back of my radvan.  Everything works that way, and all the officers I've worked with understand.  I can't contribute any more to this post.  Im out.


Cheers;
Andrew


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## buzgo (25 Aug 2005)

JimmyPeOn said:
			
		

> The volume should always be at full blast on a combat net,   so he can hear whats going on when the firing starts.   Unless youre on a Recce.   If you need to swithch over to your admin net, then theres no rush.   Take it off your back and switch it for him.   All I'm saying is that Ive see na lot of comms flop and manpacks mysteriously zeroised, when a young Lt starts playing with dials.   If you guys really want to take the chance thats up to you.   Personally, they dont even come in the back of my radvan.   Everything works that way, and all the officers I've worked with understand.   I can't contribute any more to this post.   Im out.
> 
> 
> Cheers;
> Andrew



I see from your profile that you have tonnes of experience ...  

There are lots of reasons that the officer should have access to the radio. I don't know about the militia types, but MOST of the reg force combat arms types (not just officers) that I've worked with are just as competent with the IRIS gear as any signaller. The guys working in the brigade CP barely even get to talk on "their" radios at all. I spent a lot of time copying things into logs for the officer in the box.


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## The_Falcon (25 Aug 2005)

signalsguy said:
			
		

> I see from your profile that you have tonnes of experience ...
> 
> There are lots of reasons that the officer should have access to the radio. I don't know about the militia types, but MOST of the reg force combat arms types (not just officers) that I've worked with are just as competent with the IRIS gear as any signaller. The guys working in the brigade CP barely even get to talk on "their" radios at all. I spent a lot of time copying things into logs for the officer in the box.



Exactly!  I was told once by one of my officers that the radio belongs to him, I just get the "privilege" of carrying it for him


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## JimmyPeeOn (26 Aug 2005)

And what reason would a Pl comd have to touch anything but the PTT?  If you have it set up correctly, what need is there to play with it?  By all means I'm not painting them all with the same brush, I've learned a lot about TCCCS from Jr Offr's.


			
				signalsguy said:
			
		

> The guys working in the brigade CP barely even get to talk on "their" radios at all. I spent a lot of time copying things into logs for the officer in the box.


Ok, so theyre touching the PTT, which was point one, if you bothered to read this thread.



			
				signalsguy said:
			
		

> I see from your profile that you have tonnes of experience ...


Youre right, I don't have tonnes.  Im here offering suggestions. If it makes you feel big to slag on my experience, or TI, go ahead.  I'm not here to impress the guys finishing thier career's in the NCR.

Cheers;
Andrew


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## kilekaldar (26 Aug 2005)

Well, speaking as a Sig, I've had officers yank the headset of my head a few times in the Bn CP because they decided it was THEIR turn, despite the fact that I was in mid Tx, with 8 other people on 2 nets waiting on traffic(gotta love C/S 8). Point is, some are micromanagers, control freaks, others will let you do your job. It's also different from base to base. In Kingston because the Sig school is there they tend to follow the official Jimmy policy of 'hands off my comms gear'. Other places, not so much. Get to know who your working for and let them know by showing them that YOU are the guy with the training, this is YOUR job, and you are not some glorified secretary who only transcribes traffic. That advice I got from my Mcpls, Sgt, and WO when I first got to my unit. 

As for carrying the 522, ditch the harness, it's horrible, it hurts after a while, the radio has the nasty habit of falling out the bottom at the worst time. Use ANYTHING else, but the new CADPAT Daypack is the best, 100x better than the harness.

Over.


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## buzgo (26 Aug 2005)

I can't comment any more, I'm finishing off my career in the NCR  : I'm going to put my hands in my pockets, lose my beret, unblouse my pants and head over to the Rideau Centre for some donuts...


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## JimmyPeeOn (27 Aug 2005)

kilekaldar said:
			
		

> Well, speaking as a Sig, I've had officers yank the headset of my head a few times in the Bn CP because they decided it was THEIR turn, despite the fact that I was in mid Tx, with 8 other people on 2 nets waiting on traffic(gotta love C/S 8). Point is, some are micromanagers, control freaks, others will let you do your job. It's also different from base to base. In Kingston because the Sig school is there they tend to follow the official Jimmy policy of 'hands off my comms gear'. Other places, not so much. Get to know who your working for and let them know by showing them that YOU are the guy with the training, this is YOUR job, and you are not some glorified secretary who only transcribes traffic. That advice I got from my Mcpls, Sgt, and WO when I first got to my unit.
> 
> Over.



More or  less what I was trying to say, with eloquence.

Cheers!





			
				signalsguy said:
			
		

> I can't comment any more, I'm finishing off my career in the NCR   : I'm going to put my hands in my pockets, lose my beret, unblouse my pants and head over to the Rideau Centre for some donuts...


Good point,  that was a little harsh.  I'm checking fire on this blade war.

Cheers, and sorry for the dig.
Andrew


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## GO!!! (27 Aug 2005)

The best way is to place your radio between your therma rest and valise, so that it is perpendicular to the ground, and the buttons and antennae stick out the side. This will lower your silhouette, and make the antennae easy to point upwards once you go static. You can also load freqs and batteries without taking it out of your ruck. The padding on both sides offers shock protection (important when jumping).

The day pack is the superior choice, but only if you are just on a day trip - and have left the rucks behind.

Putting your 522 radio on the front of you is the stupidest suggestion I have ever heard. How are you supposed to go prone?

Most reg F officers are pretty handy with a 522, or an HF, due to years of undermanning, when they had to carry their own radios, or if they did'nt, absent jimmys or poor quality signallers. So telling them not to touch your radio will not make you any friends.

Just a few tips from someone who was a signaller for 3 years in a Light Bn. Hope this helps.


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## buzgo (27 Aug 2005)

I have buddies who were Airborne back in the day and IIRC they told me that the CO used to carry the 515 from time to time...


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## mudgunner49 (29 Aug 2005)

I just came back from SG 05 where *I carried my own radio for the entire ex*.  I carried it (as I have for the past year or so) in my LF R.A.I.D. Pack, along with my stealth suit, dry socks and an IMP.  Incidentally, I got weighed at the BMS, wearing the radio, flak vest, TV (yes, I wore the damn thing - most of the time...), rifle and helmet I was 313 pounds!!!

I had no problems with comfort carrying it in the R.A.I.D., and when my driver had to accompany me once and there was a fair chance we'd have to split up, he carried our second 522 in my Eagle 3-Day pack.  both of the packs have a frame sheet and this helped immeasurably, no doubt...


blake


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## GO!!! (30 Aug 2005)

mudgunner49 said:
			
		

> I just came back from SG 05 where *I carried my own radio for the entire ex*.   I carried it (as I have for the past year or so) in my LF R.A.I.D. blake



All of you other cbt arms officers out there could take a lesson from this fine example of a man !!!

I've only seen two officers - both OCs, carry their own radios on ex...


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## KevinB (30 Aug 2005)

Keep in mind Blake came from the Ranks  

 WTF - TacVest - with all your kit you caved for a TV


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## devil39 (30 Aug 2005)

mudgunner49 said:
			
		

> I just came back from SG 05 where *I carried my own radio for the entire ex*.   I carried it (as I have for the past year or so) in my LF R.A.I.D. Pack, along with my stealth suit, dry socks and an IMP.   Incidentally, I got weighed at the BMS, wearing the radio, flak vest, TV (yes, I wore the damn thing - most of the time...), rifle and helmet I was 313 pounds!!!
> 
> I had no problems with comfort carrying it in the R.A.I.D., and when my driver had to accompany me once and there was a fair chance we'd have to split up, he carried our second 522 in my Eagle 3-Day pack.   both of the packs have a frame sheet and this helped immeasurably, no doubt...
> 
> ...



Great, and good on you.  

An exercise is the best time to prove your manliness and carry the manpack.  

If you do it for real, and troops lives might depend on your mental ability vice your physical ability, I would highly recommend that you enlist the services of the highly trained (and relatively highly paid) MCpl and Cpl who are in your Tac.  Speaking as an Infantry Officer that is.....

They will filter the "dogsh*t" calls, plot your map references, and leave you free to run all over the area applying your influence with subordinates at the crucial time and place.   Carry the small 521, maintain comms, and maintain your energy levels and alertness.... never know when you will need those!

My 2 cents


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## mudgunner49 (30 Aug 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Keep in mind Blake came from the Ranks
> 
> *WTF - TacVest - with all your kit you caved for a TV*



Not exactly - I was wearing my Hellcat until the Bde Comdr saw it and lost his mind!!!  I was actually hoping to avoid contact with anyone who had enough juice to influence things for the durationof the ex - what can i say???  Wrong time, wrong place...

devil39 - I couldn't disagree more.  i have always carried my own radio, whether as a FOO or as the BC.  It's not a matter of proving anything, it's a matter of expediency.  When I need to call for fire or make mods to a fire plan I don't need to look for someone to pass me the handset, I just start yakkin'.  Furthermore, as the Bn Comd's Fire Support Advisor, it is oftentimes necessay for me to be separate from my FSCC, and for my driver to bring it up at a later time.  My sig already has one 522 set, and my tech has the laser, goniometer, cam net and sometimes the NODLR.  I'm pretty sure I need to do more as "my part" than to run around stripped to nothing but my basic load with a map in my hand.  Besides, as SSFD over on the Lightfighter board says "If you can't terrain associate at a trot, you shouldn't be out of the house without adult supervision anyway..." (or words to that effect)...

On another note, you would think that when we buy a new comms system (TICCS), they would be smaller, lighter and work better.  Not so!!  On one occasion this past week, I could not talk with one of my c/s 8 km down the road, but an hour later I was picking up chatter on a range control frequency out of Fort Huachuca Arizona - WTF, over...


blake


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## George Wallace (30 Aug 2005)

Well put Blake

I found devil39's comments rather odd to say the least.  Kind of brought back that 18th Century British Army Aristocratic snobbery type of feelling we so often have with inexperienced officers that send shivers down our spines.  Cannon fodder, say whoyt.


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## GO!!! (31 Aug 2005)

devil39 said:
			
		

> If you do it for real, and troops lives might depend on your mental ability vice your physical ability,




I thought that as one of our well paid, motivated, dashing, intelligent, and ridiculously fit "superiors", you would be able to do both!  

By the way - OC C - the NEW 39, carried his own radio on the last ex - the whole time. Which makes sense with an understrength coy, as Coy HQ should not be approaching the size of a small Pl, and taking needed rifles out of the platoons.


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## mudgunner49 (1 Sep 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I thought that as one of our well paid, motivated, dashing, intelligent, and ridiculously fit "superiors", you would be able to do both!
> 
> By the way - OC C - the NEW 39, carried his own radio on the last ex - the whole time. Which makes sense with an understrength coy, as* Coy HQ should not be approaching the size of a small Pl, and taking needed rifles out of the platoons.*



Ahhh, there is that also - good point...

blake


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## KevinB (1 Sep 2005)

Realistically with a 3 man FOO party/det - everyone needs a radio anyway.  I know back in bad old days (before I saw the Patricia light  )  I had to carry one as a FOTech - attached to the lead 031 Platoon.  The FOO had one - and dismounted the SIg carried one half the time too - the only way you can break the party and maintain comms over two nets.

 Even in the 031 Pl and Coy the leadership needs to carry comms - simply since the Sig can only carry ONE radio and the Coy Commander needs to be on two (min) - ideally the Pl comd/OC can get a MBITR/148 Set - but outside JTF supported ops these don't exist (or did not).   The 148 is roughly the size of the 521 with 522 set range and no stupid battery/crypto issues.


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