# Skydex Helmet Pad Kit - LOTS of pictures



## PhilB (2 Mar 2007)

Hi guys,

Recently Matt at CP Gear sent me a set of skydex pads to T&E. I used Oregon Aero pads during my tour in Afghanistan and am a HUGE supporter of helmet upgrade systems. My pad system was hands down the best kit purchase I made before I left. Fast Forward 9 months and I am back at home in the frigid north. My Oregon Aero pads, while still comfortable, freeze continually while in the field during winter. The Oregon Aero pads become extremely hard and un-pliable when the temperature drops, and it takes about 30mins on my head for them to soften up again. I had heard about the Skydex pads and from what I had read they were equally as comfortable as the Oregon Aero pads and they claimed that they did not freeze. Needless to say that I was very interested to try these out. 

For those that aren't familiar with this system, the pads velcro into the helmet. To install the upgrade you must first remove the issue suspension system, except for the chin strap, and then install the adhesive velcro pads which come with the kit. Once that is complete is a simple matter of putting the pads into the helmet in a configuration that is comfortable for you. The kit comes with adhesive velcro, one large pad, two medium pads, and four small.







In this picture you can see the suspension system removed and the adhesive velcro discs installed






Pads installed into helmet






The first thing that struck me when I received the pads was how similar they were to the Oregon Aero pads. They felt as soft and comfortable, but with a somewhat more rigid base. 

Here is a skydex pad side by side with an Oregon Aero, the side showing is the side which is attached to the velcro discs






Here is the side which makes contact with your head






Obviously in trying out these pads my two major interest areas where the comfort of the pads and more importantly, the pads ability to resist the cold.

1.) Comfort - I found these pads equally as comfortable as the Oregon Aero pads, which is to say, extremely comfortable. I experienced no pressure points when using this system, and I find, my helmet feels much more stable and flops around less. This system is a huge jump in comfort over the issue suspension system. I had read that some people had had issues with these pads being slightly "scratchy" as a result of the foam that these pads utilize, however I did not experience this problem.

2.) Ability To Resist Cold - This was my primary concern. To test this property I put the Skydex pads in my freezer for 48 hours.






When I pulled them out of the freezer they was absolutely no change in the comfort and pliability of the pads. They performed exactly as advertised. 

Hopefully these pictures are clear, they were taken immediately after I removed them from the freezer











I am lightly squeezing the pads, and as you can see they are not rigid in any way.

All in all I am extremely impressed with the skydex pad upgrade system. As a result of its comfort and increased helmet stability and the ability to machine, or hand wash sweaty pads, I think this system will work well in Afghanistan. The pads ability to resist the cold make them more suited for use in Canada than the Oregon Aero pads IMHO. I know CP Gear carries this system here:

http://www.cpgear.com/default.asp?mn=1.19.56&f=pd&pid=519

I am not sure if there are other Canadian retailers which carry this product. Hopefully this makes sense and is useful to some people. Please feel free to post or pm if you have questions or would like more details.


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## Donut (2 Mar 2007)

Thanks for that, Phil.

One more item on my CP Gear Wishlist since Matt got involved with them!

DF


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## medaid (2 Mar 2007)

mmm gucci kit! I want! Sorry Matt, I still have to send you an e-mail about the drop leg holster...


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## Jamtorky (2 Mar 2007)

The review I was waiting for .. now on my list of needs

PhilB ...couple of questions ... I take it the strapping you have on your helmet is the on from the Oregon Kit??  screwed on or rivet?? How did you attache the plastic  parts on the scrim netting to your helmet... Rubber Cement??

Great post 

Cheers 
Jamtorky


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## PhilB (2 Mar 2007)

Jamtorky - The straps I have on my helmet are made by a company called OPs-Core they can be found at www.ops-core.com
I had the Oregon Aero in my helmet overseas and did not like it. I found that the plastic on it broke and the straps did not stay tight. IMHO the issue chin strap is superior to the Oregon Aero strap. 

The scrim net and helmet cover are attached by velcro. All I did was go to a hardware store and buy small velcro discs. Most hardware stores carry them, just attach one side to the helmet, the other to the plastic tab and you are good to go. Hope this helps.


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## buzgo (2 Mar 2007)

Is the helmet still safe to use for parachuting with this upgrade installed?


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## KevinB (2 Mar 2007)

I jumped a CF Gallet with the pads, and suspension system -- however mine was a 4 hole helmet - not the typically three hole.
The pads (I dont have experience with the Skydex ones -- but I am planning on talkign to Matt about) are superior in impact aborbancey to the issue system.

   CF units issues the MICH/ACH - which have the same kit and jump them (do the math on what unit...)


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## Loachman (2 Mar 2007)

I currently seldom wear this helmet as I can't plug a helicopter into it (but there's an opportunity in the near future to wear it a lot more for an extended period if things work out) however I'm a habitual upgrader of almost anything that can be upgraded. My main question regards the legality of doing this mod. Nobody in my little part of the CF looks at the interiors of others' helmets (and seldom their own for that matter) so I'm not concerned too much about that - it's more to do with ultimately returning it to the supply system. Any potential problems there? I'm guessing not, as the remaining Velcro patches shouldn't be too visible.


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## PhilB (2 Mar 2007)

In terms of having to turn the helmet in, you can easily re-insert the issue suspension system. This isn't a permanent mod. You don't have to change the chin strap, so no hole drilling or anything required. The issue suspension just pops out, set it in a safe place to gather dust, and when u get out put it back on.  As Kevin pointed out this mod increases the shock absorption properties of the helmet.


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## KevinB (2 Mar 2007)

Legality  ;D  -- you dont know me very well do you.

I know a number of people (me for one) drilled out helmets in Afghanistan for a 4th hole - so as to affix the NV helment plate to our helmets (at that point the PVS-14 MNVG was coming with the USGI Kevlar Helmet mount -- and it easily slipped off the CF Gallet helmet).  The second time mine fell off when out and about -- I descided that since I'd seen many 4th hole helmets around -- I was doing one too, regardless if I did not have the protective mantel of DHTC to cover me this others did.
    the 4th hole not only allowed me to do the NV mount -- but also affix the OA suspension system in place.

When I got out - I got to keep the helmet - since it had been damaged/modified - and the supply techs seems to accept the fact that I had a reason for doing so...
  *note I am NOT recommending people do this -- since 1 can get away with it -- several more will end up paying for it, or worse... + the CF has a new MNVG mount -- and guys with the dual tubes have 4 hole helmets (or better)


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## Matt_Fisher (2 Mar 2007)

Please note that in order to use the Skydex helmet pads, you do not have to drill any holes into the helmet, or any sort of permanent mods.  All you have to do is remove the existing leather sweatband and styrofoam liner.  If you need to turn your helmet in, or for whatever other reason reattach the issued suspension system, it's easy to put back in.

There are 2 pretty simple mods you can do to the issued helmet cover so as to work with the Skydex pads.
1.  Go to a craft shop and get some adhesive backed velcro strips (both the hook and pile parts).  Attach the velcro disks to the inside of your helmet.  Then take the adhesive velcro strips you got from the craft shop and trim to fit and attach to the plastic tabs on the helmet cover, with pile (fuzzy) on he side that is in contact with the velcro disks on the helmet interior, and hook (hard/scratchy) on the side that is in contact with the helmet pads.
2.  Get some 1" webbing or binding tape and sew velcro on the ends (hook on one side, pile on the other).  Cut off the plastic tabs from your helmet cover and sew the web/binding tape strips on in their place (easily done with a home sewing machine, by hand, or taken to an alteration shop).  Then attach the ends with the velcro to the velcro disks and place the helmet pads on top accordingly.

We'll (CP Gear) be doing a kit for the latter mod option.  Stay tuned to the website for details.

Regarding parachute jumping.  I'm in the process of sending out some sets to the Airborne Trials & Evaluations Section in Trenton.  Once/if they are approved, I'll note it on the product description on the website.  I do know that these helmet pads are approved for jumping in the US, but whether that's good enough for CF purposes, since I'm not in the position to make such a decision, I cannot comment.


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## Loachman (2 Mar 2007)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> Legality  ;D  -- you dont know me very well do you.



Not intimately, but certain impressions have been formed...

Thanks for the response - you too Matt - this is what I expected to hear.


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## ZipperHead (3 Mar 2007)

For anybody interested in purchasing this, I will offer my testimonial: if these (Skydex helmet pads) are anywhere as comfortable as the OregonAero ones (which I purchased directly from the company), AND don't freeze up, don't hesitate to purchase them. The price (from CPGear) is much cheaper than what I paid (even after doubling up a purchase with another guy to save on shipping costs). The comfort can't be beat, and to honest, not too many people will give a rat's arse if you have them in your helmet. I have had MWO's and Major's admire mine, and they weren't concerned about the fact that it wasn't the vicegrip leather strap issued one. But, one never knows about jealous superiors or sticklers for issued kits.

If one is going to be wearing a helmet a lot (i.e overseas or while on course, although a caveat here is in order here: if you are on a course that has you having your pers kit inspected, you may not get away with these (see my comment above)), I would highly recommend the purchase of these babies. Your pumpkin will thank you!!  :warstory: <---- See how happy this guy is?!?! That's what I feel like with my helmet pads in!!! 

Al


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## Bzzliteyr (5 Mar 2007)

Well, time for me to peep up, as I am the one who "teamed up" with Allan to buy those Oregon Aero pads.

I have been wearing them since I received them and had installed the whole BLSS kit in my helmet, including the strapping system.  I have worn it through my DP3, taught while wearing it on DP1s and have subsequently been wearing it upon my posting to Valcartier.  I have had no issues with anyone telling me I am "not allowed" to wear it, though sometimes people do a double take on the straps and look at me different.  I then proceed with the "these aren't the droids you're looking for" Jedi mind trick.

The price Allan and I paid came to a whopping $200ish CDN, not bad at the time but if I compare that to the price of the Skydex kit I can see that newer modders will be saving tons o'cash!!!

My only opinion on the Skydex is second hand info from a review on www.militarymorons.com where they discuss the "scratchy" issues mentioned by Phil above.  I would like to borrow a set from Matt and make a direct comparison (as I am heading out on my DP3A in the next upcoming weeks, can you say cold weather testing?) so I may post more details on that.  I know my recent hot weather testing of the BLSS went well (a la Texas).  I took part in a 13km ruckmarch, lovely mountain hiking trips as well as prolonged use in the turret of a Coyote with no sweating issues or foul smells at all.  I merely aired out my helmet any chance I could get and didn't even get any salt/sweat stains.  The material on the Skydex kit looks the same, so I predict no issues there.

I have informed my troops of the availability of the kit and I recommend it to anyone who has ever had "helmet head" and scratched and whined about it, this is a nice piece of kit hands down for ANY trade.


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## Matt_Fisher (5 Mar 2007)

Bzzliteyeyr,

The 'scratchy' issues which you'd read about on the militarymorons site were from the 1st Gen. Skydex pads.  Since then, that particular issue had been identified and rectified by the manufacturer.
When I looked into which particular brand of helmet pad to carry, I did quite a bit of research, as there are 4 major companies offering pad kits:
-Oregon Aero, with the BLSS (helmet pads plus chinstrap assemlbly) and BLU (helmet pads) which supplied the original MICH contract.
-Team Wendy, (helmet pads alone) which are being used in the US Marine Corps' Lightweight Helmet (LWH) as a retrofit kit (the original helmets did not come with a pad kit).
-MSA/Gallet, (helmet pads and chinstrap assembly) which are now standard on the MICH and US Army's Advanced Combat Helmet (ACH).  They simply package their helmet pads as a standard option with the new helmets.
-Skydex, which are being used as a retrofit kit by SOCOM for their MICH helmets.

All of the above listed helmet pads have been documented to meet the non-ballistic impact protection levels as specified by the US Army for their ACH program.  All of the above are comparable in terms of comfort based on user reviews.  Where the major difference is, that because the Skydex pads don't use foam, they will not harden up in colder temperature as the other manufacturer's pads will.  Another difference with the Skydex is that because it utilizes an internal 'brillo pad' of a soft silicone type material, it allows for alot more airflow to pass through the helmet pad, which can evaporate any sweat more quickly than a foam based pad system.  The result is that your head will stay drier when wearing the helmet.


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## westie47 (7 Mar 2007)

Phil,

Which strap set did you buy from ops-core? They show two different set-ups for MICH?ACH.


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## PhilB (7 Mar 2007)

I bought the H style trap and I LOVE it! A great purchase IMHO. If you would like some more details just pm me.


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## Yeoman (8 Mar 2007)

hey matt if they do get approved by the airborne t&e section, pass it along would you? I wouldn't mind to give the old helmet a new go. sides the suspension system is starting to peel in my helmet  
Greg


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## Samsquanch (8 Mar 2007)

Does this kit make the helmet sit differently on my dome? I'm hoping for a little lower fit than the suspension system without the annoying squeaking sound mine makes. How is it in the heat? 
Does it feel 90$ better... Because, I already feel like a million bucks  ;D


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## MikeL (8 Mar 2007)

I got the BLSS kit in my helmet, an it does sit a bit lower on the head. IMO it is a lot more comfortable; as for  how it is in the heat, I dunno since I just got mine an havent worn it during the summer or in A-Stan yet.


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## PhilB (8 Mar 2007)

I found mine better in the heat than the standard suspension. It all depends on how you have the pads set up, but they way mine were set allowed air flow up into the helmet. Additionally when the pads were sweaty it was easy to remove them and either hand wash or throw them in the washer. HUGE benefit because you are going to sweat regardless, it kept my helmet clean, and un stinking!


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## Bzzliteyr (8 Mar 2007)

Crazy.. but there is more to this thread than the most recent posts.

From my post on the previous page: "I know my recent hot weather testing of the BLSS went well (a la Texas).  I took part in a 13km ruckmarch, lovely mountain hiking trips as well as prolonged use in the turret of a Coyote with no sweating issues or foul smells at all.  I merely aired out my helmet any chance I could get and didn't even get any salt/sweat stains."


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## CF_Lifer (27 Apr 2007)

That scrim isn't issue, is it?
It looks like the scrim off my Grandfather's helmet from the Militia, back in the late 50s, but with an issue stretch cord throughout?


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## Farmboy (27 Apr 2007)

> hey matt if they do get approved by the airborne t&e section, pass it along would you? I wouldn't mind to give the old helmet a new go.


 
 I spoke with Airborne trials here in Trenton last year about approving the BLSS system for jumping.  They *will not * approve anything unless it is purchased by, and submitted by a unit.


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## Yeoman (27 Apr 2007)

hmmmmmmm...............well luckily I'm friends with our PI's in the unit
hmmmmm.......need to scam heh.


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## DirtyDog (27 Apr 2007)

PhilB said:
			
		

> I bought the H style trap and I LOVE it! A great purchase IMHO. If you would like some more details just pm me.



Was it hard to adapt to the Gallet?


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## Samsquanch (28 May 2007)

I've been wearing the pads for a short while now. I love them but had to take them out for my next course due to the very high probability of daily kit inspections. As well as the fact I am a FNG. Nice and snug fit... good shock absorbtion... and easy to put in (and take out). CP gear was a pleasure to deal with and had quick shipping time.

The tabs for scrim and helmet cover I just grabbed some pieces of black duct tape and stuck em in. Don't wipe out the inside of the helmet with a paper towel prior to putting in the velcro disks the lining is rough and makes a mess.


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## Bartok5 (4 Jun 2007)

I've got the Skydex and love it.  I say this after 27 years of consecutive "steel pot" followed by the issue "Gallet kevlar".  Neither of which has been particularly soldier-friendly.  Go figure.....

Anyhow, I'm loving the Skydex.  As will be a further thirty (plus) 3PPCLI soldiers who just ordered the pad system thanks to CP Gear's visit last week.  

The CLFAWS doesn't endorse the Skydex or Aero-Oregon suspension systems for para ops because they haven't been jump-validated by our horribly outdated and backlogged Airborne Trials and Eval System.  Apparently it doesn't much matter that all branches of the U.S. Forces have already endorsed (if not adopted) the exact same foam-based systems, determining through scientific trials that they actually improve ventilation and increase ballistic shock absorption....   :-\

Welcome to the CF.  Cutting edge.  One injury at a time.....


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## Bzzliteyr (4 Jun 2007)

Hey, the human factors group in Toronto must check the biosciences involved with the aerodynamic properties affected by the buildup of sweat in the pads ....obviously..


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## Yeoman (5 Jun 2007)

I know that one of the first units to approve and issue the oregon/spydex system was the 82nd Airborne Division *shrugs*
I'm still hesitant just because of the jump thing. not like I will be much longer, but still.


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## KevinB (5 Jun 2007)

Keep in mind part of the CF issues a helmet with the OA setup and jumps it...
  Of course the CF never lets the fact that since a unit outside "the system" has done it be a reason for them to allow it...
 :


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## Blakey (5 Jun 2007)

Sounds like a good piece of kit, although I'm quite supprised that no one has jumped in yet with a bit of caution in regards to any head injuries one might sustain, wether overseas or in Canada.

Specifically in regards to SISIP, seeing (no pun intend) as the topic of purchasing alternative ballistic eyewear came up this morning and we have been told that nothing else besides the issued ballistic glasses are authorised, because SISIP will not cover any injuries sustained if the claimant was not wearing the issued glasses.

I just don't want to see someone (who doesn't know any better) to take what they read here as gospel and go out and get this system and god forbid get injured, then come back here and start whining and crying about how the military is "screwing them over" with not giving them a pension etc...

In closing, I would air on the side of caution and DEFINATLY confirm that this has been authorised (especially before donning this modified helmet overseas).

If anyone else has any more info regarding the eyewear+SISIP thing, please do share.


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## Bzzliteyr (5 Jun 2007)

I worry not whether the helmet will be covered by SISIP.. I worry wether the helmet will still protect me from the badguys bullets..the pad kit doesn't change that aspect of the helmet so I am good to go.  

Anyone who has jammed an old scarf or other material in their helmet to make it more comfortable has in essence done the same mod.  there are only maybe about 1000 people in the forces that should care whether or not it's "jump certified"...  In my LAV, I am not too concerned.


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## DirtyDog (31 Oct 2007)

Just a question to anyone that have installed Skydex pads:

In the pics, PhilB seems to only use one velcro disc per pad (minus the 2 for the top one and the velcro strip) and I was wondering if that was enough as the kit comes with quite a few discs?  I was going to double up the discs for tall the smaller pads and use 4 for the top pad....  Is that overkill?


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## MikeL (31 Oct 2007)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> Sounds like a good piece of kit, although I'm quite supprised that no one has jumped in yet with a bit of caution in regards to any head injuries one might sustain, wether overseas or in Canada.
> 
> Specifically in regards to SISIP, seeing (no pun intend) as the topic of purchasing alternative ballistic eyewear came up this morning and we have been told that nothing else besides the issued ballistic glasses are authorised, because SISIP will not cover any injuries sustained if the claimant was not wearing the issued glasses.
> 
> ...



I got a BLSS kit in my helmet , never had any issues with anyone saying I can't use it. Also aren't Oakley M Frames an authorized eye wear?


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## Blakey (31 Oct 2007)

^ I haven't heard anything to the fact, just got back from Wainwright (Maple Guardian). My previous post on the subject was just a caution to those that are looking at purchasing kit for tour overseas (read Afghanistan). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for goochie kit that _helps_ you preform your job better, that said, if an individual purchases a piece of equipment or modifies a piece of issued equipment, gets injured overseas wearing said kit, I don't want said individual *bitching and complaining* that SISIP, DVA Etc... are screwing them around.

In a nutshell, do whatever you want with your kit but, be forewarned, just because YOU think the kit WAS authorized or YOU deem that pair of sunglasses or helmet suspension system good to go, doesn't mean that SISIP/DVA or the CF has.

Personally, I'm not going to take that chance.


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## Loachman (1 Nov 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> I was going to double up the discs for tall the smaller pads and use 4 for the top pad....  Is that overkill?



I used two for the top pad and two (vertically) for the two large pads, and one for each small pad. The Velcro holds the pads fine, but when I went to take one out to show somebody, the Velcro remained stuck to the pad and let go from the helmet. I had very carefully cleaned the surface with detergent and water, then alcohol on a cloth, and then a couple of the alcohol wipes included. Perhaps the adhesive needs longer to set properly. Those Velcro discs are still keeping the pads in place, though, and I have made no further attempts to remove a pad.

I'm keeping the remaining Velcro discs as spares.


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## geo (1 Nov 2007)

Good lesson learnt Loachman..... Once you have it put in - leave it in place.


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## Canadian Sig (2 Nov 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Just a question to anyone that have installed Skydex pads:
> 
> In the pics, PhilB seems to only use one velcro disc per pad (minus the 2 for the top one and the velcro strip) and I was wondering if that was enough as the kit comes with quite a few discs?  I was going to double up the discs for tall the smaller pads and use 4 for the top pad....  Is that overkill?



Dont know if it's overkill or not but I used *alot* of disks in mine. At first I used 1 per small pad and 2 for the big center pad but I lost the big center pad in Wainwright this Maple Guardian and as a result added more velcro. I have had issues with one of the smaller pads falling out as well and the extra disks seems to have corected that.


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## Bomber (2 Nov 2007)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> ^ I haven't heard anything to the fact, just got back from Wainwright (Maple Guardian). My previous post on the subject was just a caution to those that are looking at purchasing kit for tour overseas (read Afghanistan). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for goochie kit that _helps_ you preform your job better, that said, if an individual purchases a piece of equipment or modifies a piece of issued equipment, gets injured overseas wearing said kit, I don't want said individual *bitching and complaining* that SISIP, DVA Etc... are screwing them around.
> 
> In a nutshell, do whatever you want with your kit but, be forewarned, just because YOU think the kit WAS authorized or YOU deem that pair of sunglasses or helmet suspension system good to go, doesn't mean that SISIP/DVA or the CF has.
> 
> Personally, I'm not going to take that chance.



Give these respective organizations a call, and ask about thier coverage.  They will be mor ethan happy to tell you, and even refer you to documents that will support what they say.

Failing that, I couldn't imagine you not being covered if your eyes get screwed while wearing non issue glasses, what happens if you get injured while not wearing any glasses?  Say sweat and movement have cause your issued glasses to slide off your face, and in the process of putting them back on, you sustain an injury?  I can;t beleive tha tthey would not cover you.  

It is your eyes, and in the end, if you buy some unproven low rate but flashy glossy reported piece of kit and you suffer for it, you may still get your pension, but you will wear your problem for the rest of your life.  Do research beofre you buy anything, and ensure that anything you purchase is actually certified for the job your doing.  Proper kit costs more.  This si not a slag on any specific type, nor an indorsement of the issued goggles, but merely me pointing out that some stuff is proven, and some stuff is cool, doesn;t this all just come down to all the problems that the Dragon Skin is having?


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## Bomber (2 Nov 2007)

I also have the Skydex pads in my helmet right now, and am still trying to find info from the company about "Behind Face Deformation" test results.  If your helmet gets hit with something, that doesn;t physically penetrate it, the kinetic energy will still go into the interior.  my question that I am looking for an answer to is will the skydex pads with their cupped balls absorb this energy before it gets transfered to my skull, or do they just make my helemt much more comfortable to wear?  I figure this is one of the reasons why the Issued helmet has a suspension system vice a support system.  Any comments or links would be appreciated.


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## RCR Grunt (2 Nov 2007)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> Sounds like a good piece of kit, although I'm quite supprised that no one has jumped in yet with a bit of caution in regards to any head injuries one might sustain, wether overseas or in Canada.
> 
> Specifically in regards to SISIP, seeing (no pun intend) as the topic of purchasing alternative ballistic eyewear came up this morning and we have been told that nothing else besides the issued ballistic glasses are authorised, because SISIP will not cover any injuries sustained if the claimant was not wearing the issued glasses.
> 
> ...



This argument against "unauthorized kit" has been used in my unit before.  I Gave both SISIP and VAC a call today, and both organizations will cover you *regardless* of the kit you are wearing.  For VAC, if you are injured in the line of duty, you're covered.  For SISIP, they cover you both military side and civvy side, and no one wears the issue BEW while driving down the 401, so they cover you regardless. 

On that note, you get what you pay for.  If you're going to purchase aftermarket kit, do your homework, check the standards, don't cheap out.  This applies to everything, head to toe.  It's your eyes / head / arse on the line.  As for the skydex pads, if its good enough for our allies to the south, it's good enough for us.  We have similar shaped heads, afterall.


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## Farmboy (2 Nov 2007)

Here are the test results for the Oregon Aero BLSS (which have better protection than the Skydex as shown on the charts)







http://youtube.com/watch?v=-mZUHvZRnt8


Here are the results for the Skydex pads


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## Bzzliteyr (3 Nov 2007)

Bomber, if the pad kits (regardless of type) were not effective then I don't think the US military would be putting them in all their helmets.  I love my BLSS and I am very comfy with it in the desert...I am sure the Skydex kit might be just as comfy.. Ford, Chevy.. Habs, Leafs... the fight goes on...as long as the end user is happy with what they buy, then it's all good!


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## Poppa (4 Nov 2007)

How are the pads holding up in theatre? Is the glue holding in the heat?


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## Bzzliteyr (4 Nov 2007)

I can not comment on the Skydex pads.. but my BLSS kit has never had velcro issues.. it has held up very well here in theater.


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## KevinB (4 Nov 2007)

The only issue I've had with the kits is cutting the pad to fit Sordins and Peltors - no velcro issues with either the CF Gallet install - nor the TC2002 (2002 is a WAY better helmet BTW - same company as the CF helmet)
 *Oregon Aero velcro

  IMHO CTS would be better served by ordering the fricken helmet with the pads installed (and the Nortos NV mount plate)
**but what do I know I just use the dam things I'm not a Maj or WO at NDHQ  :


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## Poppa (4 Nov 2007)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> **but what do I know I just use the dam things I'm not a Maj or WO at NDHQ  :



It's nice to see that you're mellowing in your advanced age.  ;D


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## Bomber (5 Nov 2007)

Didn't realize the US was using them for their helmets as a standard item.


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## Matt_Fisher (5 Nov 2007)

All current combat helmet systems for the US Army (ACH), US Marine Corps (LCH), and SOCOM (MICH, etc.) are using some sort of pad system rather than a traditional suspension system similar to what is in the Canadian Forces combat helmet.

Regarding the helmet deformtion issues, I'm in dialogue with an Ottawa based research firm that does studies in this area to address this issue.

Regarding Oregon Aero vs. Skydex performance specs, I'll post some more information that documents testing done; in certain areas Oregon Aero does outperform Skydex, and in other areas, Skydex outperforms Oregon Aero, however both systems meet the US Army's performance specs in terms of trauma force reduction.  Also consider that there is a significant price difference between the Oregon Aero and the Skydex.


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## Loachman (5 Nov 2007)

http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/72B51F51FA1AE04A852571FE00756E10?opendocument

Marine Corps Systems Command buys Helmet Pad Suspension Systems

Oct. 5, 2006; Submitted on: 10/05/2006 05:22:38 PM ; Story ID#: 2006105172238 

By - Corporate Communications, Marine Corps Systems Command

MARINE CORPS SYSTEMS COMMAND, Quantico, Va. (Oct. 5, 2006) -- Marine Corps Systems Command has purchased 89,000 sets of combat helmet suspension pads for immediate fielding. Previously, a sling suspension system had been fielded for Marine Corps combat helmets.

Early results of testing between the pad suspension system and the sling suspension system for Marine Corps and Army helmets indicate pads offer more protection. The Marine Corps and the Army recently participated in the Congressionally directed, independent, non-ballistic tests through the Department of Defense. In these tests, conducted by the U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Lab, the pad system demonstrated greater non-ballistic blunt impact protection.

The Marine Corps and the Army fully agree as to the positive results of the tests. In light of this, the Marine Corps announced that the pad suspension system is now the only authorized suspension system for Marine Corps Helmets. Further, only pad suspension systems purchased by the Marine Corps via the supply system are authorized for use. These pad suspension systems are also used by the Army. Units will exchange their sling suspension system when the operational situation permits. 

The Marine Corps had already approved the use of pads prior to the tests, and while these tests were underway, Marine Expeditionary Forces, in coordination with Marine Corps Systems Command, procured 39,000 sets of padded helmet suspension systems to meet immediate operational needs. MARCORSYSCOM purchased an additional 50,000 sets of pad suspension systems, which have been delivered to the Consolidated Issue Facilities and the Critical Asset Rapid Distribution Facility. The command also placed an order for 50,000 more.

Prior to the testing by the Army Aeromedical Research Lab, the Marine Corps completed tests at the University of Virginia and shared the results with the Army. These tests assessed the risk of ballistic induced backface trauma, and the results showed no significant difference between the sling suspension system and the pad suspension system. 

The Marine Corps and the Army will continue to work together to ensure helmets provide optimal protection for Marines and soldiers in the field. We acknowledge and appreciate the efforts of “Operation Helmet” for their support in bringing these issues to the forefront.


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## Dog (7 Jan 2008)

How are you supposed to be able to tell what size to order?


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## Matt_Fisher (7 Jan 2008)

Dog said:
			
		

> How are you supposed to be able to tell what size to order?



80% of people order size 6 (3/4") pads.  If you find that the pads are either too big, or too small for your preference, we can either exchange them for the other size, or you can return them for a refund or credit.

Cheers,

Matt


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## Dog (7 Jan 2008)

Excellent, Just ordered a pair.


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## Donut (7 Jan 2008)

My first set was a little off, but by trading around within the company a couple of us managed to get first rate fits with a combination of the different sizes.  I think I've now got large front and back, and medium side and crown pieces.  If there's several in your unit ordering, you may get a custom fit by doing a little trading between you.


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## Dog (20 Jan 2008)

CP Gear was great to deal with, and the pads arrived within 4 days of my ordering them.

I just finally got around to installing the pads in my freshly exchanged helmet... and wow! It's amazing how much better it feels on my head. I found for myself that it *feels* as though it reduces the weight, merely by the way it doesn't have pressure points. *MUCH* more comfortable. I like that I don't have to remove the velcro pads to re-insert the suspension kit (in the event I get ordered to for some stupid reason) and I can re-organize the pads into any configuration that I want in seconds. I'm no kit-slut, but I wish I'd bought this piece of kit before now.


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## Kokanee (2 Feb 2008)

I was going to post up about my recently installed Skydex pads from CPgear, but I agree with everything Dog posted. So I'll just throw up a picture of the installed pads.


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## RequiemVK (5 Feb 2008)

We just got a briefing today by a Maj. who work at (sorry did not remember the name of the organization, but the one who deal with buying the new stuff and veh.), amd he said that padding are non authorized kit modification because they dont work with our helmet blah blah, but work with american one. Im presently have a Skydex in my helmet and gonna keep it for my to be soon deployment, unless my chain of command tell me to remove it. But i can say, to have weared it in Wainwright, that it do the job.


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## KevinB (10 Feb 2008)

FYI -- I got the Skydex kit from Matt last week - and replaced the Oregon Aero that came with the Helmet (TC2002 "Gunfighter") -- so far I find the Skydex pads a little thinner and a lot more comfortable -- but I am using a combo of both - as I dont run the top donut -- so my helmet fits better around my Peltors.

I will get some pics up in a bit.


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## LordOsborne (13 Feb 2008)

I've had the Skydex pads in my helmet for over a year and have even used them at the Inf School at Gagetown without getting into trouble. I've gotten many curious looks and a number of envious comments. Out of all the things I have ever purchased since I joined the CF, these pads are definately the best. Well worth the coin.


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## GDawg (18 Feb 2008)

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the Skydex kit or any similar product is available on the ground in Afghanistan?


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## PhilB (18 Feb 2008)

When I was there on 1-06 there was no skydex or similar system available. American issue helmets already come with a pad system and as such there is little need for the PX to sell pads.


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## Matt_Fisher (18 Feb 2008)

GDawg said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the Skydex kit or any similar product is available on the ground in Afghanistan?



Whilst they may not be available for purchase locally, we do ship to deployed addresses all the time.  Also, shipping on all orders to deployed addresses (Stn Forces Belleville, ON) is free.


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## GDawg (18 Feb 2008)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> Whilst they may not be available for purchase locally, we do ship to deployed addresses all the time.  Also, shipping on all orders to deployed addresses (Stn Forces Belleville, ON) is free.



Excellent, thanks for the speedy reply! I'm on embarkation and I just realized I forgot something pretty important.


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## Dissident (18 Feb 2008)

FYI female types:

I just got a Skydex kit and installed it. 

The fiancee tried it and she wants one too now. Apparently the issued systems pulls her hair and doesn't really work for her, long hair and all.

No such issues with Skydex.


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## Kokanee (22 Feb 2008)

Okay this pad system is worth it's weight in gold.

Took a tumble off the top of a Bison yesterday on Ex, landing on my head and I was able to walk away.


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## Loachman (22 Feb 2008)

Another fellow in my Squadron and I had our heads knocked together during the fireman carry phase of the BFT late last year (both of us being carried in opposite directions). He (no Skydex) was in some discomfort for a while, I (Skydex) was just laughing.


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## KevinB (8 Mar 2008)

Finally got the picks up

I rearrnaged the pads to fit the Peltors better -- not a big deal with the Vehicle headsets





but the issue does come up with the Peltors so re-arrnaging them is a good idea


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## LordOsborne (8 Mar 2008)

Sweet pics, Kev, but when are you going to put that info into the _Stoner direct impingement thread _ you promised?


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## KevinB (8 Mar 2008)

I have a cross country drive to Ottawa starting tomorrow (from Edmonton with a full tailer on my truck)  after that (circa 14-15th)hopefully I can get Mudgunner and Cobra6 in on it too (perhaps even MG34)
  Sorry for the wait - I had been actually earning my money on this roto.


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## LordOsborne (8 Mar 2008)

Sounds good. At least you're making some money... I wish i could be on class B


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## ProPatria031 (8 Apr 2008)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> Finally got the picks up
> 
> I rearrnaged the pads to fit the Peltors better -- not a big deal with the Vehicle headsets



That set up is a good idea, that void must give some good ventilation. I just picked mine up today I'm going to try and set them up the same way (to bad I cant get a goochy helmet like that yet  ). I'll put some picks up when I'm done putting them in.

 :cheers:


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## ProPatria031 (8 Apr 2008)

I wasn't able to get a proper pattern that offered ventilation and stability so I opted for different pattern instead, but its comfy as having a heavy pillow on your head, these brain bucket pads are beyond cats a$$  8)

Plus!! if I'm wearing it, you can't even tell that I have the pads in, so those "70's" era Sgt. majors wont be able to give me a hard time LOL  ;D

P.S. I couldn't figure out how to get pictures on this site , I'm still pretty new to this site LOL, if some one could let me know how to insert pics let me know, I'd really appreciate it.

 :cheers:


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## Panzer Grenadier (12 Apr 2008)

I attended CANSEC this year in Ottawa and made my way to the CP Gear stand.  Skydex Sales and Business Developement Manager was there.  My friends and I got to talk to him and he gave us the helmet pad set and retention system to try out in our helmets. We asked why he would just give them to us. He simply stated that we are the ones who are the pointy end who face the risk and deserved something that would reduce the strain on us.


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## Bzzliteyr (12 Apr 2008)

Wow, that is impressive.. kudos to them.  I hope they have plans for getting that system recognized and approved for use here in Canada (officially, that is)


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## Canadian Sig (15 Apr 2008)

ProPatria031 said:
			
		

> P.S. I couldn't figure out how to get pictures on this site , I'm still pretty new to this site LOL, if some one could let me know how to insert pics let me know, I'd really appreciate it.
> 
> :cheers:



Host the pics on a host site such as www.imageshack.us , then copy the url that says something like "direct link to image" (found at bottom of the page), then come back to this site and paste that url in between 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . That should show your pics. I for one would like to see how you placed your pads.


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## DirtyDog (24 Apr 2008)

For what it's worth, my install:


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## RCR Grunt (24 Apr 2008)

My install is exactly the same, right down to the velcro for the helmet cover.  I put velcro on both side of the plastic tabs of the helmet cover to facilitate the addition of a scrim net.  Fits like a glove, feels like a dream, best money I have spent on kit so far.  Will post pics later.


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## DirtyDog (24 Apr 2008)

RCR Grunt said:
			
		

> My install is exactly the same, right down to the velcro for the helmet cover.  I put velcro on both side of the plastic tabs of the helmet cover to facilitate the addition of a scrim net.  Fits like a glove, feels like a dream, best money I have spent on kit so far.  Will post pics later.


I was thinking of doing that (velcro on cover tabs to facilitate scrim net) but I've been told since I got here 10 months ago "No scrim net", so I haven't bothered yet.


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## RCR Grunt (24 Apr 2008)

In addition to facilitating a scrim net, I'm also able to remove and replace the helmet cover without removing the pads or the velcro discs used to install them.  So when winter ex rolls around, I can go to the whites; when deployment comes around, I can go arid; when my TW cover goes ratty, I can exchange it; and when I wanna play scuba-ninja, I can just remove it.


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## OldSolduer (7 May 2008)

And now you've spent all this money on SkyDex, your CSM and RSM are going to make you take it out and replace it with the suspension system. Just a heads up.


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## sigtech (7 May 2008)

They would have to look in my helmet first , and the chances of that are slim and none.  :threat:


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## OldSolduer (7 May 2008)

Well they just might decide to look in your helmet Sigtech, if they are doing their jobs. Don't be surprised if they do. You can fight this one if you want, but you'll lose. It's a safety issue.


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## sigtech (7 May 2008)

Sir, how can you tell me that the current system is safer then the skydex pad system. From everything I have read they are just as safe if not safer the the leather strap system. I am just wondering what you are basing you claim on?

Hare reports that state these pads are safe (Not all that I found just a couple):
http://www.uscav.com/PressRelease.aspx?id=29
http://www.allbusiness.com/public-administration/justice-public-order-safety/3996104-1.html


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## Bzzliteyr (7 May 2008)

Sigtech, I wear one, and kept wearing it even after we were told to remove them in theater on the last tour.  I was lucky.

Playing devil's advocate here.  OldSolduer is warning of potential rule enforcement as that is his job.  From what I have read of his comments on many threads here, he doesn't always agree with the orders but he must enforce them nonetheless.

Also, it's unfortunate but the Canadian Military has not tested these items for use in OUR helmets.  Therefore, they are not "safe" by our standards.  That's the unfortunate truth.  And that's where the claims are coming from.


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## OldSolduer (7 May 2008)

If an item hasn't been tested, then we really shouldn't be using it....unless its a combat proven item.
Skydex maybe comfortable, but is it as safe?


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## DirtyDog (7 May 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> And now you've spent all this money on SkyDex, your CSM and RSM are going to make you take it out and replace it with the suspension system. Just a heads up.


I'm not real worried.   Actually, I'm not worried at all.

I hear what your saying, but I don't see anybody looking into my helmet in the near future.


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## Sig_Des (7 May 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> If an item hasn't been tested, then we really shouldn't be using it....unless its a combat proven item.
> Skydex maybe comfortable, but is it as safe?




In your opinion, does it have to be tested by US? Or would this be acceptable to you? I'm sure Matt can provide ref sources if you ask him nicely.



			
				Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> When I looked into which particular brand of helmet pad to carry, I did quite a bit of research, as there are 4 major companies offering pad kits:
> -Oregon Aero, with the BLSS (helmet pads plus chinstrap assemlbly) and BLU (helmet pads) which supplied the original MICH contract.
> -Team Wendy, (helmet pads alone) which are being used in the US Marine Corps' Lightweight Helmet (LWH) as a retrofit kit (the original helmets did not come with a pad kit).
> -MSA/Gallet, (helmet pads and chinstrap assembly) which are now standard on the MICH and US Army's Advanced Combat Helmet (ACH).  They simply package their helmet pads as a standard option with the new helmets.
> ...


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## Ecco (7 May 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Also, it's unfortunate but the Canadian Military has not tested these items for use in OUR helmets.  Therefore, they are not "safe" by our standards.  That's the unfortunate truth.  And that's where the claims are coming from.



How would you know if they have been tested or not?  Before stating misinformation about CF ballistic equipment, please ask your chain of command.


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## Bzzliteyr (7 May 2008)

Okay, you got me there.  I should have said that as far as I know these pad sets have not been tested officially in our equipment.

I can however say that I do know they are NOT officially allowed to be in our issue helmets even if they were tested.  Consider, however that an AAR as far back as 2006 states the usefulness of the BLSS kit.

Please though, inform me of what misinformation I stated about our CF ballistic equipment?  And then kindly help out with what I should be asking my chain of command, since you seem to be so wise as to where to find it.  If you are privvy to that info and can point me in it's direction, please do.  Cause as far as I know, no testing has been done unless it's recent.

And secondly, how about you fill in some of your profile info we I know who the heck you are?

*modified to clarify.


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## MikeL (7 May 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> And now you've spent all this money on SkyDex, your CSM and RSM are going to make you take it out and replace it with the suspension system. Just a heads up.



Depends where you are. A lot of troops in my battalion have the BLSS an Spydex kit, no one in the chain of command has said anything negative about it.


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## Ecco (7 May 2008)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Okay, you got me there.  I should have said that as far as I know these pad sets have not been tested officially in our equipment.
> 
> I can however say that I do know they are NOT officially allowed to be in our issue helmets even if they were tested.  Consider, however that an AAR as far back as 2006 states the usefulness of the BLSS kit.
> 
> Please though, inform me of what misinformation I stated about our CF ballistic equipment?  And then kindly help out with what I should be asking my chain of command, since you seem to be so wise as to where to find it.  If you are privvy to that info and can point me in it's direction, please do.  Cause as far as I know, no testing has been done unless it's recent.



I will rephrase:  The answer to your question (if it's been tested or not and the results) is available to your chain of command.  Your unit supply organization staff should be able to find out /communicate with the LCMM of the helmet or the requirement officer of ballistic protection and can ask him about the tests that were performed.  This kind of ballistic information should not be available on the internet, for many excellent reasons.



			
				Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> And secondly, how about you fill in some of your profile info we I know who the heck you are?


Information about ballistic capabilities gleaned from the internet and army.ca profiles have one thing in common:  They should not be trusted.  It is too easy to misinform.  Ask your chain of command for the former, they have to give you a professional, legal-binding information.


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## Bzzliteyr (8 May 2008)

Okay, I am just looking at the credibility of an "unknown" with 22 posts on the internet. 

I understand you write well and have sound advice, but you give me nothing to work with that convinces me to accept you for anything more than a four letter nickname with a really cool CADPAT TW icon besides his name, no doubt downloaded from the CTS website.


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## sigtech (8 May 2008)

You know it comes down to this , I will wear them until someone yells at me and tells me not to, sort of like my old American Rain Jacket that I wore for years until RSM Irvine flip his wig and tore me a new hole for wearing it.  ;D

Safe or not here is the way I look at it , if I am comfortable I will be more aware of what is going on around me , i.e. I won't be worrying about my pounding headache.


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## OldSolduer (12 May 2008)

Once again sigtech et al, may I remind you that the removal of the skydex paraphenalia, will be a DIRECTIVE (read an order). That means if you are caught with it, you could be charged for disobeying a lawful command, AND possibly for modifying kit WITHOUT authorization. Just a point. Also, if you are injured and the investigation concludes that the Skydex pads were a contributing factor, what pension implications does that have?
Now for my little rant. 
Far too many soldiers (and I'm referring to Army) are too fond of picking and choosing what directives to obey. In reality, you don't have a choice. You are paid to do what you're told to do. I've heard too many soldiers state they don't use issue safety equipment because its uncomfortable etc. I realize that some directives are utterly ridiculous (ie blousing pants, TacVest vs chest rigs on real life ops etc), but if the CoC states its a safety concern, then you better pay attention. One young solider didn't wear his BEW (as we are ordered to do) and almost had his eyes injured. He was damn lucky. That young soldier is my son, and yes I gave him hell when he told me he wasn't wearing his BEW.
If you think that for one minute that the enforcement of directives that concern your safety aren't my responsibility (and other Sergeants Major), then you better think again. That's what we're paid to do and if your CoC is not paying attention, then they are doing you a disservice.


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## RCR Grunt (12 May 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Once again sigtech et al, may I remind you that the removal of the skydex paraphenalia, will be a DIRECTIVE (read an order).... if you are injured and the investigation concludes that the Skydex pads were a contributing factor, what pension implications does that have?



There will be no pension ramifications, as has already been stated.  SISIP covers you civvy side as well as CF side, and no one wears their BEW or Issued helmet suspension while driving down the 401, so your covered.  VAC is only concerned about injuries sustained in the line of duty, not with what you were wearing.  You could take rounds wearing a pretty pink tu-tu in the middle of the Arghandab river, as long as you were injured in the line of duty, you are covered.



			
				OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Now for my little rant.
> Far too many soldiers (and I'm referring to Army) are too fond of picking and choosing what directives to obey. In reality, you don't have a choice. You are paid to do what you're told to do. I've heard too many soldiers state they don't use issue safety equipment because its uncomfortable etc. I realize that some directives are utterly ridiculous (ie blousing pants, TacVest vs chest rigs on real life ops etc), but if the CoC states its a safety concern, then you better pay attention....If you think that for one minute that the enforcement of directives that concern your safety aren't my responsibility (and other Sergeants Major), then you better think again. That's what we're paid to do and if your CoC is not paying attention, then they are doing you a disservice.



My chain of command knows a ridiculous directive when one comes across their desks, and they choose how they will enforce it.  The Skydex pads have been tried and tested and proven safe by the US Army, and is issued to American soldiers.  My head is shaped the same, and is relatively the same thickness and density.  The pads are safe, the directive is flawed.


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## Nfld Sapper (12 May 2008)

Before this becomes a pissing contest may I remind all involved about this quote:



			
				Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Playing devil's advocate here.  OldSolduer is *warning of potential rule enforcement * as that is his job.  From what I have read of his comments on many threads here, he doesn't always agree with the orders but he must enforce them nonetheless.
> 
> Also, it's unfortunate but the *Canadian Military has not tested these items for use in OUR helmets.  Therefore, they are not "safe" by our standards.*  That's the unfortunate truth.  And that's where the claims are coming from.


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## sigtech (12 May 2008)

Good point NFLD but do we follow policy blindly, it takes only one voice to change a policy that is made with out being fully informed. If the Infantry want to use these we need to look into this do you not think


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## Nfld Sapper (12 May 2008)

That we do, squeaky wheel gets the oil (eventually). Start passing the ideas up the COC and see what happens.  8)


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## OldSolduer (12 May 2008)

I agree with the Sapper. Use the chain of comad.
I know, from experience, that kit we purchase is often better than what we are issued. NOW I'm saying that if you are ordered to remove or not use a non issue item and you are caught, then be prepared to pay the price. I did in the form of seven days "corrective training" for wearing boots that were not issue.
I realize that most younger soldiers today are very informed on weapons and kit, but not so well informed of responsibilities of their superiors. One of mine is to ensure that directives are followed. Yes I will voice my opinion, but once the CO and RSM say...."get on with it"....I have to.
Now, maybe the directive is flawed, but it is an ORDER none the less. Myabe the Skydex is safer, but like Sapper posted, we haven't tested them. Just because the US Army uses something is not a reason to adopt it.


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## KevinB (12 May 2008)

FYI the MSA TC2000-2002 helmets (which are the same as the Gallet made ones except made in the US) Gallet makes the CF helmet.

 US testing showed impact protection up 400% in mosr cases with the OA and Skydex, and no bad affect on blast issues etc.

Not saying use it, just offering an outside opinion.


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## Ecco (12 May 2008)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> FYI the MSA TC2000-2002 helmets (which are the same as the Gallet made ones except made in the US) Gallet makes the CF helmet.



CG634 is not the MSA TC2000-2002.  Manufacturer X builds gizmo A and the CF buys gizmo B from Manufacturer X does not mean that gizmo A=gizmo B.


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## OldSolduer (12 May 2008)

I thank you for that info I-6. I'm quite sure that this kit is safe, however we have a directive out, and it may be ill informed, but it is a directive.
Not arguing if SkyDex is safer or whatever. My argument is with those persons who are inclined to disobey an order. The word is out: SKYDEX is not approved, so if you get caught and disciplined, don't cry that it's unfair, or make excuses like "The US Army issues it".
We are not the US Army. We are the Canadian Forces. And while the US Army has all kinds of kit, we do not, nor do we (as a military) have the luxury of purchasing every fancy piece of gear on the market.


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## sigtech (12 May 2008)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> I agree with the Sapper. Use the chain of comad.
> I know, from experience, that kit we purchase is often better than what we are issued. NOW I'm saying that if you are ordered to remove or not use a non issue item and you are caught, then be prepared to pay the price. I did in the form of seven days "corrective training" for wearing boots that were not issue.
> I realize that most younger soldiers today are very informed on weapons and kit, but not so well informed of responsibilities of their superiors. One of mine is to ensure that directives are followed. Yes I will voice my opinion, but once the CO and RSM say...."get on with it"....I have to.
> Now, maybe the directive is flawed, but it is an ORDER none the less. Myabe the Skydex is safer, but like Sapper posted, we haven't tested them. Just because the US Army uses something is not a reason to adopt it.



Sir wouldn't you be in that chain of command, and from you post you agree that the order mite be flawed , so wouldn't it make sense in lue of saying it is a order so follow it. Wouldn't it better if someone in your position say say it is a order follow it for now and you pass it up to have said order changed. You would have more pull that say a Cpl


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## Nfld Sapper (12 May 2008)

Hey sigtech maybe he was saying give it a shot and maybe your SSM/CSM/RSM might have the same idea and takes and endorse it then send it on to the next higher level.


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## OldSolduer (12 May 2008)

And sigtech, that is what I get paid to do. If the directive is lawful, it must be enforced (within reason). This directive affects safety, therefore its a higher priority than others (ie pants blousing in the field) when it comes to enforcing. 
Yes my thoughts have gone up the CoC, but this directive has come from "on high". Its not something one MWO is going to have changed overnight. It will take several MWOs talking to several CWO (RSMs) who will speak to their CO's, who will forward their opinions up the CoC. That is the way it works, and it takes time to change it. Be patient.


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## RCR Grunt (12 May 2008)

In the meantime, carry on as if you were normal.  Apply common sense as needed.


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## KevinB (12 May 2008)

Ecco said:
			
		

> CG634 is not the MSA TC2000-2002.  Manufacturer X builds gizmo A and the CF buys gizmo B from Manufacturer X does not mean that gizmo A=gizmo B.



Thanks Ace - I don't recall saying they are equal  - I guess CANSOF buys inferior equipment for a lark then...  :


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## sigtech (12 May 2008)

OldSolduer , I am glade you passed it up and I do understand your position.


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## Hazard_duke (7 Jun 2008)

i have the skydex pads and theyre amazing! but since thyre only velcroed on, theyre not stuck on well. so it seems that ive lost one. any way I can get a spare pad without buying a complete set? many thanks!


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## Kevin Moran (27 Jul 2008)

Have you tried EBay?  There are some sellers who are selling a couple of replacement pads pretty cheap


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## PuckChaser (16 Sep 2008)

Just to confirm (might have been covered before, but I gotta be sure), the issued chin strap system can remain in the helmet even with the Skydex kit installed? I can't stand the issue one with the pointy foam pads jabbing at my skull, but I don't want to rock the boat too much at my unit with a helmet that has a wierd chin strap. Also, has anyone reinstalled the issued one back into the helmet, and found any issues doing so? I assume it'd just be a quick contact cement job and it'll look good as new.


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## Loachman (16 Sep 2008)

You keep using the issue chinstrap. The original suspension comes out fairly easily. It's been a while since I did mine, so I cannot recall exactly how, but it's just a few screws and would be easy to re-install the original suspension.

Directions may be earlier on in this thread. If you have't read it from the beginning, you should.


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## DirtyDog (7 Apr 2010)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> For what it's worth, my install:


So.... 2 years and many exes later, I pulled my Skydex pads out.  Don't get me wrong, it was comfortable, but just didn't seem to sit right no matter how I configured my pads.  Instead of "grabbing" your head, or wrapping securely around it, the helmet just seemed to sit on top of your head with these pads.  Unless the chin strap was done up quite tightly (and even then) the helmet would be free to slide around, going off kilter and mocing about to the point that it would drop down in front of your eyes.  It was especially troublesome if you were running and had excessive weight on the helmet (say an IR strobe, WES harness, MNVG and helmet light). Like I said, I tried configuring the pads differently and I dropped a helmet size but it still just seemed to sit on top of my head and didn't secure to it in any way.  I managed for 2 years with it, and it wasn't that bad until you started exerting yourself (a nightmare on a PWT run down or section attack).

Saying that, I bought a Oregon Aero BLSS kit and seem happy so far.  Much more 'supportive' and secure.  It actually seems to hug the head, much like a hockey helmet might.  I had to go back up a large helmet, and my only concern is that it might seem too tight now and I have no room to expand.  I kept the issue 3 point strap to keep under the radar (as I understand helmet pads can be a point on contention these days) and the strap system that comes with the BLSS kit feels really cheap and flimsy.  I'll probably take a cut off wheel to the "ears" of the composite headband that the kit straps attach too as they can somewhat get in the way.  I also added a few of my skydex pads up in the crown to supplement the BLSS pads and it seems work out.

Pics to follow soon.

BTW - another concern I have with boths pads is sand sticking to sweaty pads and then abrading the head.  I've heard these complaints from people and the sandbox and have experienced it myself in Pet (not California however, funny enough).


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## Bzzliteyr (8 Apr 2010)

DirtyDog, I used the pads in Afghanistan and had no issues with sand sticking to anything and I even lived in "moon dust" for two weeks on Gundy Ghar!!

I have been using the BLSS pad set for years now and am very happy with its survivability.  I replaced the BLSS strap kit with one from Ops Core (Head-Loc H system)and have been satisfied as well.  It is a lighter shade of green (almost grey) but no one has approached me about it yet.  I am about to head back to regimental life so we'll see how that goes!

Enjoy your pads!


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## MikeL (9 Apr 2010)

Bzz, only 2 weeks there; tourist  


I used the BLSS kit for a couple years, including tour, headband seemed a bit tight on my head though, and I had issues with the chinstrap getting loose, even after taping the straps. Ended up switching to the Spydex kit, fits my head a lot better an move comfortable when wearing a headset, I find anyways.


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (9 Apr 2010)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> So.... 2 years and many exes later, I pulled my Skydex pads out.  Don't get me wrong, it was comfortable, but just didn't seem to sit right no matter how I configured my pads.  Instead of "grabbing" your head, or wrapping securely around it, the helmet just seemed to sit on top of your head with these pads.



What worked for me with these pads is wearing a bandanna or headwrap (like the ones from CP Gear) to ensure the helmet stays put.


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## jeepsport (14 Jun 2010)

definately one of the better pieces of non-issue kit I've bought. I used an under armour skull cap with the pads in Afg, in Canada don't wear anything else under the helmet.


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## DirtyDog (15 Jun 2010)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> DirtyDog, I used the pads in Afghanistan and had no issues with sand sticking to anything and I even lived in "moon dust" for two weeks on Gundy Ghar!!
> 
> I have been using the BLSS pad set for years now and am very happy with its survivability.  I replaced the BLSS strap kit with one from Ops Core (Head-Loc H system)and have been satisfied as well.  It is a lighter shade of green (almost grey) but no one has approached me about it yet.  I am about to head back to regimental life so we'll see how that goes!
> 
> Enjoy your pads!


Yeah, I haven't run into the same kind of gritty, granule-like sand here, just the moon dust.

I'm much happier with the BLSS pads then the Skydex as it fits my head much better with the headband.  I actually supplemented the BLSS pads with some Skydex and it's worked out well.  I cut of the BLSS straps and mounting tabs and stuck with the issue strap.  I have no comfort issues with it and it helps me stay under the radar (although the straps others have don't seem to bother anyone anyway).

I've tried the CP Gear headwrap but the seams used in it's contruction feel like they're boring into my head so I usually go without.


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## DirtyDog (6 Aug 2010)

I'm still quite happy with the BLSS kit.  A bonus I've found is reconfiguring the pads for different situations.  The pads at the ear area (consquently where I supplemented the OA pads with the Skydex pads) I move up towards the crown of the helmet when doing mounted operations and making room for the vehicle headset which fits snugly and securly in... not to mention much more comfortably.

When dismounted, I move the pads back down to the headband and re-attach the PRR headset by looping the cam cover tabs through it.  Although it doesn't keep the headset up against the ear, making it difficult to hear in loud enviroments, it's a VAST comfort improvement over wearing the PRR headband which invariably will result in hot spots quite quickly.  Also, you can't remove the helmet and monitor PRR comms, but that's a minor inconvenience.


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