# Communications and Electronics Engineering ( CELE )



## Tyrnagog

I am interested in joining the Army, as a DEO with a career path in CELE.  The recruiting officer says that this [ath was just split into 2 areas, one specialing with the army, the other with the air force.  Does anyone here no anything about this?

Thank you!


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## Bert

I guess this reply is a bit late but here goes.

Check out this link:

 http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/commelec/school/cfsce_e.htm 

About half way down the page, look for the miliary occupations.  From my understanding, the CELE program is split for job specifics rather than anything else.  Heres a cut and paste from the program description:

"PHASE IV - Formal Training
This phase marks the separation of air and land CELE officers into the different environments. The aim of this phase is to complete your basic training and prepare you for your first employment as a CELE officer. While earlier phases are more structured, Phase IV more closely resembles military post-graduate education. Prior to starting this phase, you will be assigned to the Land or Air environment for contact employment at selected air and land units. This will provide you with an opportunity to exercise the skills that you have until this point. You will then be returned to Kingston for the final phase of advanced training at the junior level. Land training is approximately 13 weeks in duration and Air training is approximately 10 weeks in duration. The topics covered in this phase are related to the strategic, operational and tactical communications systems as employed in larger combat formations. You will learn how to support operational commanders in every facet, including knowledge of communications employment in military operations, maintenance, and requirements. You will also receive some basic knowledge of communications and electronics project management. 

PHASE V - On-Job Training 
Following Phase IV – Formal Training, you will undergo a period of "On-Job Training (OJT)" that will provide the necessary "real world exposure" to complete your training. You will perform the actual tasks of a CELE officer, under supervision, in a land or air operational unit. You will then be ready to be assigned to a leadership position at your first unit."


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## devrik

Hi all, my big lug (well ok so he‘s a little pale and willowy from possibly wasting his last 4 years getting a CompSci degree) is Waiting on the Call. Looks like he‘s got plenty of company!

Here‘s what I got from Wpg recruiting and various news articles:

1. Next basic Sept19-Dec19 with 2 weeks off for Xmas

2. No more IAP-BOTP or whatever...now the first ten weeks, all officer candidates mix in with everyone else, last 3 weeks split out for the leadership bit

3. Bonus is 40k, 25k payable on successful finish of basic, 15k a year later. Keeps you around, keeps you from getting killed in taxes.

4. Minimum contract for DEO 4 years, says Globe & Mail.9 years, says some Captain downtown. Surely not for the DEOs? Anyone know this one?

Clarifications/corrections welcome. 

p.s. How did everyone else end up here? My guy was sure he could get a job at the CSE back in the old days when jobs were fast and thick on the ground. Remember those old days, oh, a couple years ago?!!

CELEwife


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## McG

The obligatory service is 4 years, the contract is for 9.  That means that if he leaves of his own choice prior to the 4 years, he pays back the money.  Leaving before the 9 years (but after the 4) has other penalties, but he can keep the money.


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## Tyrnagog

hehehe... CELEwife...  My wife is going through the exact same thing right now.. 

All of your info sounds correct, except I am not so sure with your point 2 (IAP/BOTP).. afaik, IAP/BOTP is still around.  But then I may have some wrong info too...

McG is correct about the terms of the contract for the 40k signing bonus.

How did I come around?  Well, I graduated last year with a Bachelors of Electronics Engineering.  I was sure to get a job except for one thing.  The dot-bust.

My job prospects sunk about as quickly as Nortel stock (!)      

Ah well...  Since my brother-in-law joined up as a Gunner, I have been kinda jealous of the training he‘s gotten... and there is also some family history for me..

Great-Grandad.. PPCLI (WW1)
Granddad... fought in WW2 (Armoured)
Father (Reservist)
Uncle (Member in the signal corps until he retired)

So I guess it‘s in my blood...  Best of luck with your hubby getting in this round.. I know the wait is **** .

Is he bilingual?  I know that‘ll make things quicker.. and seeing how you are from Winnipeg...

[edit] You may want to post this same message in the recruiting board.  It is a lot more active then the engineering board, and there are a lot of people with a lot of experience there as well...[/edit]


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## devrik

Thanks for your reply Tyrnagog, will take your advice and move to ‘recruiting‘. Now all I gotta do is find out if spouses can visit in the Megaplex. It‘s so huge, there must be a spare room for me somewhere! Ok, so I should wait till he gets in, right? But I want to know what‘s possible and what isn‘t.

McG thank you for clarifying that 4 years and 9 years were both right re contracts. Should I worry about these ‘penalties‘ you spoke of? Jumping the gun I know! But when you‘re waitin on the Call, you do a little speculating.


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## Wingman

Hi all,

I was wondering what the difference is between a CELE (83) and Signals Officer (84).  I applied to be a DEO CELE when it was Army or Air Force.  Now it has separated and would like to hear the differences from military personnel in the vocations.  I have read the new job descriptions.

A few general questions:
What different equipment does each vocation work on?  
Are the postings purely Army or Air Force?  
Where are the main postings for each (Army - Gagetown, Shilo and Edmonton - I think)? 
I would like to be posted internationally (NORAD as a possiblilty); which vocation has the better chances (I worked in the US for 4 yrs as an Engineer)?
Any other differences that I have not questioned? 

Thanks
Wingman


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## Tyrnagog

To answer a couple of questions as best I can (I am currently waiting to hear from the officers board in this occ.)...

Signals Officer (84) is the land designation and CELE (Air) (83) is the Air Force designation.

What are the differences?  Well, as I am not there yet I can‘t tell you for sure.. but the website gives some good examples.

83:  As a CELE (AIR) officer, you will become involved with numerous high tech electronic systems that support our Departmental command and control environment such as the computer networks and communications systems that support surveillance/ reconnaissance/intelligence, data/information/knowledge management, air traffic control, the full spectrum of terrestrial radio and satellite communications from HF to EHF, radar and navigation, electronic warfare, cryptography, electronic intelligence, and communications and network security

84: As a Signal officer, you will become involved with Army Command Support systems such as Land Force Command, Control and Information Systems (LFC2IS), Intelligence Surveillance Targeting and reconnaissance (ISTAR) systems, the full spectrum of radio systems from HF to EHF, electronic warfare systems, cryptographic systems, and systems for communications security. 

So there is a fair bit of difference.

As for where you will be posted, well I can only partly answer that for the army, as that is where all my questions have been directed.  As far as I know, the places you mentioned (Shilo, Edmonton and Gagetown) are fairly popular, as well as Petawawa, Kingston, etc... however, it is possible that you oculd be attached anywhere, to any unit (again, afaik).

It is possible to get posted overseas.  When I had my interview, the capt. said that Signal men were among the first in bosnia, setting up some of the critical infra-structure (anybody, please correct me if I am wrong).

I know I didn‘t touch most of your questions, but I hope I answered them somewhat...


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## Wingman

Tyrnagog, thanks for the info.  

I guess I‘m trying to get an idea of what each job work environment is like.  Also my wife wants to get her masters degree and we are currently in a city with no university and no job opp‘s for her. Therefore I would like to be eventually posted in a city with a good university.


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## Wingman

For those interested.  I just heard the CELE board has convened and we will hear the results in a couple of weeks.


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## dddenisss

Hi all,

    Like many people here, I am in the process of applying for officer in CF.  My choice is Signals Officer.

    I talked to my recruiter, memorized official CF website and left no thread unturned on this forum.  However, I still have unanswered questions concerning my future profession.  

   -what status/image do Sig Officers have in the army? Are they labelled as paper pushers by Navy/Air?
   -can I expect to participate in combat?
   -do Sig Officers get weapons practice after they finish their training?
   -I am a bit crazy about crypto and computer security. Should I expect to see that as part of my day-to-day activities?

    I would appreciate unofficial, straight-from-the-source answers.

    Thank you!


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## bossdog

As aCELE officer, you will many opportunities to do many different things. Do yourself a favour and don't worry about labels. From the men (NCM's), you'll *rarely* measure up - that's just the way it is, don't take it personally. If you want some hardcore hands on communications and electronics work then you should join the regular NCM force. We are the ones that handle most of the items that sound interesting to you. A CELE officer will be mostly doing paperwork and trying to organize a section, signing leave passes, approving tasking orders, etc, etc. Everyone that goes through initial military training will qualify on the C7 rifle while officers normally qualify on the Browning 9mm pistol. NCM's also qualify on the 9mm and other weapons depending on their unit. Again the men are the ones with all the medals on their chests from deployments. When an officer has more than two medals, it usually means that they started out as an NCM.

Again, this is my personal experience and I try to remain objective. Other pers may have other opinions from their experiences. My unit is a high readiness unit that deploys on a regular basis. I can not speak for CELE officers that are posted to static positions (Ottawa for example).

Hope this helps a little bit. Feel free to PM me with other questions.


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## dddenisss

Thanks! I appreciate your reply.

     I understand that officers go through C7 and handgun training.  After I have done my training and get posting, are there places where I can practice marksmanship?  As you can tell, I am a bit of a weapons lover. :threat:

     Thanks again for your answer!


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## bossdog

After that, you train when you are told to train.


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## rdschultz

I've got a question that this topic reminded me of.  When I first starting checking out joining, there were CELE (Air) and CELE (Land) occupations.  Some time after that, they changed the CELE (Land) to Signals Officer.  Was this simply a name change, or did anything else change along with this?  Does anybody know the reason for the change?


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## bossdog

There you go, I didn't even know that it changed. I couldn't say why.


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## wongmanfei

RE: Reply from Kingston Jimmy

To: Kingston Jimmy

Can you please stop talking about officers in the CF being paper pushers ? All officers in CF have basic and combat training (handling weapon is part of the training requirements). Officers are the leaders in the CF. They do tactical planning as well as administration planning. They don't behave as Kingston Jimmy described in his reply here.

Thanks,

Wong Man Fei


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## Rushrules

The CELE trade likes to change it's spots every few months or so.  Still doing the same job- officers and NCMs ensure Comms always avail.


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## bossdog

If you look for the key words in my posts you would see that I am speaking only from my experiences and from what I see. I thought that I made that clear in original reply. Hopefuly I haven't hurt anybodies feelings here


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## spacedog

Good afternoon all,

Just joined this site recently and noticed a few threads regarding CELE/SIGS.   I remember having a difficult time finding answers to a lot of my questions when I was applying, so I figured I'd offer my services to any potential CELE/SIGS Officers.   

I'm a SIGS DEO with 1 year in and I'm currently posted at CFB Kingston at the CFSCE.   Still waiting to finish my training, so I obviously don't have answers for everything, but I definitely know a lot more than I did a year ago 

So feel free to ask whatever.   You can also email me at spacedog@canada.com if that's easier.


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## rdschultz

Ok, I've got a few.   These are pretty general and off the top of my head, so I apoligize in advance for the lack of thought if I ask a dumb question.  

What is the general frame between courses, or for the whole period of phase III/IV?  I read one account of the training schedule, and from what I gathered, basic to OFP was about 2.5 years?  Would this be a good estimate of what to expect?  You say that you're waiting to finish your training, so I assume this means that there is some time spent between courses during Phase III?  

Another question I've got concerns the type of training at the CFSCE.  Now I'm fully aware that I won't be doing the hard-core technical hands-on stuff (which seems fairly typical of many engineering graduates in the private sector as well), but could you elaborate on this snippet from the recruiting information? 



> "Emphasis will be placed on leadership, administration, and more advanced theory of communications and electronics and its application"



Even a brief guesstimate of the percentage of coverage that deals with each of the above three basic topics?  

One final question, that I have been unable to get a solid answer on (and I'm not sure if you can help), is the difference between the former CELE (Land) naming convention and the SIGS convention now used.  Any idea what prompted the change?  Was it simply a name change, or was there an overall change in the focus of the trade as well?  I received a letter with my flight information a few days ago that confirms my enrolment as a "Communication and Electronics Engineering Officer (84U)", so clearly the name change is still not completely in use, but I've always wondered why the change did take place.


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## spacedog

I'm actually here waiting for Ph II.  I finished French school early, so they sent me here to wait to be sent to CAP.  After you're all done in St Jean (Basic & French), SIGS and CELE get posted to Kingston.  You then get attached posted to Gagetown.

There is generally a fair amount of time between courses, and from talking to people who are are a little ahead of me in the training, it sounds like the course dates aren't always the same every year as well.  For myself, it'll work out as follows:

Sept 03 - Dec 03 - Ph I Basic (St Jean)
Jan 04 - Jul 04 - French (St Jean) (this would extend to Aug unless you manage to pass your test early like myself)
Sept 04 - Dec 04 - Ph II CAP (Gagetown)
Jan 05 - May 05 - OJT (on the job training)
May 05 - Aug 05 - Ph III (Kingston) (can't remember exactly how long Ph III and IV)
Sept 05 - Dec 05 - Ph IV (Kingston)

So yeah, that works out to about 2.5 years.  Things can change though, especially if you fail a course and have to wait a few months for the next one.

With respect to the OJT.  We were recently asked to submit our 3 choices for preferred posting for the period between Ph II and Ph III.  I've also heard though that due to the large amount of privates awaiting training (and the lack of personnel to supervize them) that they might send us to Borden to babysit them while we wait for training   This would only be applicable to single guys though.

The training at CFSCE sounds really interesting actually.  You are right that you won't be doing as much hands-on technical stuff as the sigs ops, but you do get some exposure to it from what I've heard.   Most of the time will be spent in the classroom (ie. death by powerpoint).  There is one field exercise during Ph III (2 weeks) and I'm pretty sure they do it up in Petawawa.  In Ph IV, there are 2 or 3 shorter (4-5 days) exercises, some in Pet, some here.  I recently helped out on a Ph IV field exercise.  The candidates were being accessed as Troop Commanders (TPs) and Duty Signals Officers (DSOs).  It was a 5-day exercise, with a Brigade level scenario, in which the two groups of candidates represented two separate signals squadrons.  Basically, they were responsible for providing support for the notional bridage advancement.  They had to monitor the radio traffic, keep their maps up to date, get authorization from bridage hq for moves and locations of signals equipment, etc etc.  It was hard (8-hour assessment periods, back-to-back for 5 days = very little sleep ) but they all seemed to enjoy it.

As for the snippet.  Leadership and administration of your troops are big ones.  Sounds like you spend a lot more time on why you do something as opposed to how.  Same with the communication and electronics stuff.  It's going to be mostly the theories that we work with.

As for the name change, I got in just after they did that so I was never exposed to what it used to be like.  That's really interesting that they made that mistake on your flight information though.

Hope that helps a bit.


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## casing

With regards to splitting CELE into CELE (Air) and Sigs O, here are a few documents that give excellent insight (hoser, I imagine you've already seen these).   The first one is a memo and is probably most informative for a quick overview on why the split was made.   Visit the links below in order to get to the actual document.

   - CELE Occupational Structure Implementation Plan
   - Career Flow Aspects of CELE OSIP Proposals
   - CELE (Air) Occupation Specification
   - SIGS Occupation Specification (The inside link says "CELE (Air)" but the document is Sigs O)


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## JOHN LEE 27

Helloww...
you ppl sems to know something about DEO recruiting process

I applied for CELE DEO and had an interview six months ago and the CFRC wants me to comeback for a update interview?
I did good in the first interview and why is that second one?
will I loose all the gains I had in the first one? is it going to be a "long" one like last time?

What can expect from this secon interview?

please hel me


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## casing

Interview results are only good for 6 months before they need to be "updated".   Your update interview will likely be much shorter.   Just going over any changes that have occured since your last one, and anything new you might want to add.

So, if you did your interview 6 months ago, was your file complete for the last selection in May?   In any case, good luck.


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## JOHN LEE 27

thanks casing 
my file was almost complete for may but the ERC file did not come back from ottawa. mm so i missed the last board. it is sad since i started the process in August 2003. hopefully I get in this time.


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## jeff_au

"Do yourself a favour and don't worry about labels. From the men (NCM's), you'll rarely measure up" 

I believe the first step in being successful in any trades whether your an officer or an NCM is not trying to live up to someone else's expectations. When someone is able to look up to you and aspire to be like you than you have truly master the meaning of leadership. Being an officer is all about leadership...not looking good in front of everyone. 
Kings Town Jimmy was right about the fact that the men will get to do all the fun technical stuff like warfare electronics and encryption. It is also true that as an officer you'll be responsible for a lot of administrative burden but that's what were paid to do!
So far in my training I have been qualified for C7, C9 and 9mm. If you want to get more qualifications than simply join some marksman club at the range and learn more about different types of weaponry...it is not the responsibility for the CF to set you up with some hobbies 
All I know is the Sig's guys are usually the most popular crew because everyone wants to go on the internet or make a phone call where ever they go.

Cheers,
Jeff
Sig O


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## WD One

Jeff,

 Good reply. Being a Jimmy at any level is one of the most challenging and rewarding parts of the CF. Proffessionalism is the hallmark. 

WD1
VVV


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## KaptKain

dddenisss said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> Like many people here, I am in the process of applying for officer in CF. My choice is Signals Officer.
> 
> I talked to my recruiter, memorized official CF website and left no thread unturned on this forum. However, I still have unanswered questions concerning my future profession.
> 
> -what status/image do Sig Officers have in the army? Are they labelled as paper pushers by Navy/Air?
> ALL OFFICERS ARE PAPER PUSHERS DURING PEACE TIME IN THE ARMY PRETTY MUCH, UNLESS POSTED OVERSEAS (Some action put in place of the pen, just some though)
> -can I expect to participate in combat?
> If we are at war or a hostile UN tasking, then yes, possibility is action there.
> -do Sig Officers get weapons practice after they finish their training?
> ALL MEMBERS of the CF have basic weapons training, but if you want weapons specialty then go Infantry/Arty/JTF//Air Defence (fill in any one I forgot to mention guys/gals)
> -I am a bit crazy about crypto and computer security. Should I expect to see that as part of my day-to-day activities?
> NO, NOT UNLESS YA ARE INCHARGE OF A CRYPTO TEAM AT A AIR WING SQUADRON..THEN THATS A MAYBE. OR IF YOU ARE A POSSIBLE ISSO..THEN AGAIN THE SGT/WO HANDLES THE WORK...OFFICER MAINLY SIGNS DOCUMENTS THERE AS WELL
> I would appreciate unofficial, straight-from-the-source answers.
> 
> Thank you!



I filled in what I know. But mainly, officers get good pay for their signatures a few times a day, and their grammer checks on NCM leave passes. Other then that maybe 5%(if that even) of officers do any of the work you inquired about above. 
If they do any of the job taskings you mentioned above then its behind closed doors, with only a few NCMS to get them coffee.


I am writing this from 12 years NCM experience...and having a brother and brother in law that are/were officers in the forces (Sub. O and Maint O).


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## Gilligan

Now, you may or may not take this with a grain of salt.   I am a Res Sig Op Cpl currently, and what you do after your courses is entirely dependant on you.   Over the summer I was staff on the BSOC phase III, and wow, you can tell right off the bat who will make a good officer, and who has potential, and those who just don't have what it takes.   Being an officer (from my point of view) is very difficult, and it takes a lot of guts to work past the typical officer stereotype, and unfortunately, with NCMs, once that image is in their brain, it's difficult to prove otherwise, but ignore that, I'm sure with what you have said about wanting to use weapons (as an NCM I enjoy when an officer can handle a weapon and I do not have to fear for my life, which will lead to another story at another time perhaps), you will make a fine officer and a fine leader.   As for being able to handle weapons, I'm sure it's different in regs than from res, but, I know for a fact that the officers in my unit in particular, for the most part, have not seen their rifle in well over a year, but that all comes down to timings of exercises, and budget.   Scary thought, however that's life it seems, however I can't remember the last time I've seen any of our support trp members with one either, NCM or officer. 

Like everyone else has stated, ignore the stereotypes, they've existed since the dawn of time, and any NCM you come across will automatically have that image, but if you do what you know is right for the troops and the objective at hand, then you will earn their trust, and you will have no problems.

oh, and by the sounds of it you should be going Sig NCM, it sounds like you really like the idea of being in the field....if you like the field, you'll LOVE your phase III training!


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## Radop

Wong Man Fei said:
			
		

> RE: Reply from Kingston Jimmy
> 
> To: Kingston Jimmy
> 
> Can you please stop talking about officers in the CF being paper pushers ? All officers in CF have basic and combat training (handling weapon is part of the training requirements). Officers are the leaders in the CF. They do tactical planning as well as administration planning. They don't behave as Kingston Jimmy described in his reply here.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Wong Man Fei



Well, I know your vast experiences with leadership must have told you that they begin with paper work!   I have seen very little field leadership from Sig Os.   I have some very good friends that are officers and I am sure they would agree.   They would like to get out from behind their desks once in a while but it only happens when they have to brief the OC or something.   Kingston Jimmy having served as COs driver and working in ops gets to see what most of the officers do!!!!!

This is why most of the men wear 2 tour medals or more and officers have only CDs!!!


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## Sher H

From reading this thread, (just spitballing here) it appears you are interested in medals. Or is it weapons? From experience, I can assure you that medlas and weapons don't mix well with Sigs. If you are looking for medals, then go infantry, if you want weapons to play with go infantry, if you want a CAREER in communications, go for NCM (they learn more, tour more). After 22 years in the service (as a former 291 NCO) then a reservist, I would choose officer training. I stayed reg force for two tours (UNFICYP and UNEFME) plus 4CMBG in Lahr plus Alert. I have five medals, as an officer, I would have probably ended up with two, max (if I'm lucky).


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## willy

"From reading this thread, (just spitballing here) it appears you are interested in medals. Or is it weapons? From experience, I can assure you that medlas and weapons don't mix well with Sigs. If you are looking for medals, then go infantry"

WTF are you talking about?  Signals units and personnel deploy far more regularly than the infantry does.


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## Inf Sig

Read everything posted, and let's just say,  if you want a degree - go officer. If not - NCM. That would be your first step.  If you want a degree in lets say - computer engineering - you still have to get through 4 yrs of university. If you want to experience things in an field unit - Land is the best way to go - the Air side will most likely never come to a field unit. That's not to say Land will never go to a static posting.  Before you start thinking about "rucking, BFT, and EX", think about the overall picture first.  Whose to say you will not want to be a "computer geek" in 2-3 yrs - maybe law is more your speed! 

If you are with a field unit as the Sig O, you will spend the majority of your time in the office. And lets not forget all the "hob-nobbing" you still have to do after hours. When your troops go to the field, you will be going with them, doing the job of not only a Sig O, but you may also be one of the Duty O working in the CP.  As for tours, you will have to DAG with your troops, learning the same things they learn - so yes - you go in the training area and "shoot the BB gun" as well as other qualifications.  Your job will be ever changing, as well as ever-evolving. Those in the Comms world should know.  Air side - most likely working in a static job really pushing paper, qualifying on the C-7 only once a year, never doing a BFT, ruck - what is that?, and paper - loads and loads, as well as a hand in every pot. 

NCO - Field unit - do everything - from jungle lanes to shiftwork in a CP to rappelling out of a helicopter. Deploying with the troops you have worked with for months, from infantry to engineers to a country that is most likely alot warmer than Canada at this time.  Static - sitting at a desk, Outlook always open and never emptying, pushing mounds and mounds of paper, and most likely never going out of country on tour with the PPCLI, LDSH, or any field unit.

Take your pick - it is up to you to choose your life. No reason you can't change it in a couple of years also


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## Radop

Sher H said:
			
		

> From reading this thread, (just spitballing here) it appears you are interested in medals. Or is it weapons? From experience, I can assure you that medlas and weapons don't mix well with Sigs. If you are looking for medals, then go infantry, if you want weapons to play with go infantry, if you want a CAREER in communications, go for NCM (they learn more, tour more). After 22 years in the service (as a former 291 NCO) then a reservist, I would choose officer training. I stayed reg force for two tours (UNFICYP and UNEFME) plus 4CMBG in Lahr plus Alert. I have five medals, as an officer, I would have probably ended up with two, max (if I'm lucky).



I currently have 5 medals with sigs unit (11 yrs) and had none as an infanteer (6 yrs).  The highest tasked trade for overseas is still sig ops.  Every 6 mos we send a minimum of 50 Sig Ops and LSIS techs out the door for a trade that has 1200 and 300 pers respectively.  That is not including any new tours that may come up.  If you read other threads in other forums, you will see that pers are talking about sitting in bdes and not going on tour while reservist go instead.  Most of these are infanteers.  I have a lot of friends with more than 8 medals.

The last tour was roto 0 in Afghanistan and the sigs in warehouse never had a ND and as far as I know the only ones that did were infanteers.  We train very seriously with wpns as we are often sent out alone to man RRBs and have to provide our oun security.  We also provide comunication for convoy escorts or CPs for field ops.  

If you want to learn a lot of aspects of communications, go NCM.  If you want a good education, be well paid, and work a desk then go Signals O.  The biggest posting for officers in the signals branch is Ottawa!!!!


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## Sher H

willy said:
			
		

> "From reading this thread, (just spitballing here) it appears you are interested in medals. Or is it weapons? From experience, I can assure you that medlas and weapons don't mix well with Sigs. If you are looking for medals, then go infantry"
> 
> WTF are you talking about?   Signals units and personnel deploy far more regularly than the infantry does.



I'm not usually a disputatious person, however you may have misread my previous post. I agree with your point regarding percentage of deployment, I made reference to weaponry and medals, not to frequency of deployment. Wasn't quite sure if this candidate wanted medals, trips, experience, training, etc. Retraction of previous comments.


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## Radop

Sher H said:
			
		

> I'm not usually a disputatious person, however you may have misread my previous post. I agree with your point regarding percentage of deployment, I made reference to weaponry and medals, not to frequency of deployment. Wasn't quite sure if this candidate wanted medals, trips, experience, training, etc. Retraction of previous comments.



lol  ;D

then I retract the WTF comment that I never said but alluded to, ahh, you know what I mean.  lol  :dontpanic:


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## Darth_Hamel

I recently transfered from sig op to sig's field officer in the Com Res. I haven't spent much time in either role, but none the less:

Being an officer is totally different from being an NCM. If you like getting dirty and working with your hands then I suggest NEVER going officer. You are trained on how to use radio equipment, but only to understand its capabilities and to use in the event of an emergency. As an officer you deal with paperwork, and conceptual things like exercise planning. 

As to going into the field, officers do get field time, but how much depends on the situation. As an NCM almost everything that you do is regulated down to the minute. As an officer you are given goals varying from say a week to several years by your unit CO, and then left to figure out how to accomplish them on your own time. What this means is that to get into the field as an officer you have to make time for it, which can be difficult but is never impossible.

A good troop commander should be in the field every time their troops are. Whether this happens depends upon how gung ho or lazy the officer is, and how much administrative support there is at the unit. If there is a decent compliment of officers and clerks at your unit, then the troop comanders will have a lot of time to get into the field, check up on the troops in training ect. If your lacking in support, then the officer winds up picking up the slack and being chained to their desk. But as an officer your role in the field is totally differnt from the troops. You recce locations before a move, write and issue the orders, organise the vehicle packet, plan the placement of each asset in the new location, act as a liason b/w your coms assets and the officers using the CP, and then inspect everything once the setup is complete.

Once you leave a troop, pretty much kiss the field goodbye for good. But a lot of officers become Captains for life and stay in troop lines for their entire career.

Finally most people who become officers off the street do it because of what they see in the movies. Reality is a lot more boring and difficult. As a pte whatever happens, your only responsible for yourself, as an officer you take complete responsability for whatever happens to your troops, even for things that are out of your control. For instance if someone under your command is killed overseas or in training, the officer is the one that has to inform their NOK and then write a letter home explaing to their parents how the mistakes they made got their son/daughter killed. If you don't believe that you can do that then don't become an officer, especially because NCM's usually wind up having more fun anyways.


----------



## PteCamp

Hamel:

If your the same person I think you are, I did SQ with ya. 
Congrats on becoming an officer man, good luck in the future.


----------



## Sig_Des

Kec,

he's who you think he is...He roomed with me on our 3's...

Good riddance to the dark Side >

Hey, Hamel, you still have that baby-pink course T-shirt? You'll need that for your occifer PT.....jogging around the parade square in Kingston...

all J/k aside, good on ya....don't be a jerk, and since you were an NCM, you can make your own damned coffee!


----------



## chrisf

Darth_Hamel said:
			
		

> Being an officer is totally different from being an NCM. If you like getting dirty and working with your hands then I suggest NEVER going officer. You are trained on how to use radio equipment, but only to understand its capabilities and to use in the event of an emergency. As an officer you deal with paperwork, and conceptual things like exercise planning.



But as an officer, don't forget how to do the dirty work... when it comes down to crunch time, no time for idle hands.

Seen a few officers decide they were above physical labour. If you've got paperwork to do or orders to write or recce to do or whatever, fine. But if you've got time to read a news paper while your troops (Or even somone elses troops) are doing a set-up or tear down, you've got a problem, grab somthing and get to work, your troops will have more respect for you and in turn work harder for you.



> What this means is that to get into the field as an officer you have to make time for it, which can be difficult but is never impossible.



Nonsense. If your troops are in the field, you're in the field. Plain and simple.



> A good troop commander should be in the field every time their troops are. Whether this happens depends upon how gung ho or lazy the officer is, and how much administrative support there is at the unit.



See above. If you've got administrative problems, you sort them out.

And while we're on the subject of you, did that scratch ever heal up after?


----------



## Canadian Sig

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Nonsense. If your troops are in the field, you're in the field. Plain and simple.



Fraid thats not always true at 2 Sigs. We spend lots of time in the field without our troop officers.


----------



## chrisf

Canadian Sig said:
			
		

> Fraid thats not always true at 2 Sigs. We spend lots of time in the field without our troop officers.



Whether it happens or not doesn't mean it should happen. If you're in the field, your officers should be in the field. Hard to lead from the rear.


----------



## Canadian Sig

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Whether it happens or not doesn't mean it should happen. If you're in the field, your officers should be in the field. Hard to lead from the rear.



Yah. Then its called pushing, not leading..lol


----------



## chrisf

"It's not a hotel room, it's a  CP"


----------



## Radop

All due respect to Officers et al BUT, I would rather they not be there until we call them forward.

Darth, sounds like you may have a deligation issue!  Task your people with some of that stuff.  Tp WO and Sgts can create and run an exercise, course, etc for you.  You don't need to micro manage them, just remember that.

Cnd Sig, you remember that CP Op crse the unit ran in '04.  B Tp WO and Tp Comd came out only on the last day, the verification day!


----------



## MC

good advice in this thread... I'll keep it mind. keep it coming, old timers


----------



## PaulD

After almost a year of trying to get in Reg. Force as a DEO, I've taken my CFRC recruiters advice
and looked at local reserve units who are looking for people.  I've now signed up with a local
Commications Regiment to become a Signals Field Officer.  I'm now just waiting for Group to 
approve my application and hopefully I can take the last slot for summer BOTC.  Looking forward
to working with you fine folks.


----------



## lugarou

If you got in then I'll be there too. I'm not sure if you can call me a fine folk though.....


----------



## boehm

> After almost a year of trying to get in Reg. Force as a DEO, I've taken my CFRC recruiters advice
> and looked at local reserve units who are looking for people.  I've now signed up with a local
> Commications Regiment to become a Signals Field Officer.  I'm now just waiting for Group to
> approve my application and hopefully I can take the last slot for summer BOTC.  Looking forward
> to working with you fine folks.



That wouldn't happen to be 744 Communication Regiment, would it?


----------



## Sig_Des

744....ewwww


----------



## boehm

You already used that one Sig_Des. Come on try harder next time.


----------



## Sig_Des

Yeah...you're right...it's just my initial reaction whenever I hear 744.

Hey you guys get your granola bars and hemp Tac Vests issued to you yet? I heard all the West Coast Comms units are getting them now!  ;D


----------



## boehm

Oh man I love the new hemp Tac Vest! The mag pouches are smaller so they fit my granola bars perfectly and the non-fat soy latte holder is so usefull, way better then the stupid canteen holder we had on the old webbing. Although I must say, my favorite feature is the sternum mounted flower holder. ;D


----------



## Pinto

Just to add my $0.02 to the discussion.

Full Disclosure: I am a Signal Officer with 21 years experience in the Army. But, as with any forum post, the following are my personal opinions; take them for what you will.

   -what status/image do Sig Officers have in the army? Are they labelled as paper pushers by Navy/Air?

Generally, I find that all classifications realize that we are all part of a team, all doing our bit to help out. Sure, there is a fair amount of friendly rivalry; (I tend to refer to Naval officers as "Squids," but that might just be me). Within the Army, I have found that there is definitely a "combat arms" club, in that it is generally expected that the Combat Arms officers (Infantry, Artillery, Armoured and Engineers (sorta)) are the ones who run the army, and other officer classifications (Signals, Log, EME, etc) are almost 2nd class citizens. This is very strongly enforced on some of the senior officer courses. But, again, in general, we all get along and respect each other's skills and talents. Just as much as we deride those who can't do the job they are supposed to do.

   -can I expect to participate in combat?

There are Signal Officers in Afghanistan today, participating in the operations there. Technically, they are not "in combat," as in, they are not in a trench with a rifle firing at advancing enemy troops. But all officers and all soldiers are trained to do so, if necessary. The enemy doesn't distinguish combat arms officers from combat support officers.

   -do Sig Officers get weapons practice after they finish their training?

Annual weapons refreshers, if you are lucky enough to be in a unit that can afford ammunition. I was often tasked as Range Safety Officer (RSO) for my unit. You don't tend to get to shoot much when you are in NDHQ, but it does occasionally happen.

   -I am a bit crazy about crypto and computer security. Should I expect to see that as part of my day-to-day activities?

Not necessarily Day to Day, unless you are assigned to such a job. COMSEC Custodian is a common secondary duty for junior officers (I've done it a few times myself), and there are many Signal Officers who work with crypto and comp sec daily.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!


----------



## PaulD

Change of plans.  I got selected for Reg. Force this last selection board.  I'm off to St. Jean Sept. 4.  Give my regards to Cpl. N and MCpl. K.  at 744 Communications Reg.


----------



## SpitfireXVI

Hello,

I've recently contacted a recruiting center about signing up for CELE Officer. It sounds like they have a fairly technical job so I'm wondering if it's challenging intellectually. They have said there something like 24 positions open and with that trade they can give you an offer right at the recruiting office. I am just finishing up my Comp Sci degree in 7 months and have really good references from my work term employers (who would hire me if I wanted to go the civy route). I used to be a Signal Operator in the reserves and I've decided I really miss the whole army thing. I have a 70 average right now, but the last two years of my university I have had an 80-84 average.

1) I'm assuming CELE officers would get to go overseas as (Kandahar air force base).
2) How long does it take to complete your CELE Officer Training (I have no french experience).
3) From this forum it seems like CELE is very competitive, what do you think my chances are? 
4) It sounds like Sig O is less technical than CELE from this forum is that true?


----------



## SpitfireXVI

Also another question I have is do you eventually have to do a polygraph? 

I have nothing to hide, but during my undergrad I did a report on polygraphs and used a lot of information from this site:

http://antipolygraph.org/

So I'm worried I'll be very nervous because I don't believe polygraphs really work and that they have a lot of false positives. Also they probably ask if you ever researched counter measures, which I have for the report I wrote for a class I took.


----------



## DVessey

SpitfireXVI said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I've recently contacted a recruiting center about signing up for CELE Officer. It sounds like they have a fairly technical job so I'm wondering if it's challenging intellectually. They have said there something like 24 positions open and with that trade they can give you an offer right at the recruiting office. I am just finishing up my Comp Sci degree in 7 months and have really good references from my work term employers (who would hire me if I wanted to go the civy route). I used to be a Signal Operator in the reserves and I've decided I really miss the whole army thing. I have a 70 average right now, but the last two years of my university I have had an 80-84 average.
> 
> 1) I'm assuming CELE officers would get to go overseas as (Kandahar air force base).
> 2) How long does it take to complete your CELE Officer Training (I have no french experience).
> 3) From this forum it seems like CELE is very competitive, what do you think my chances are?
> 4) It sounds like Sig O is less technical than CELE from this forum is that true?



Disclaimer: Not a fully qualified CELE O here, but I've  done a few summers worth of OJT(CFS Alert, Greenwood, and this summer at CFNOC).

Just to make sure we're clear, by CELE, I'm referring to the CELE(air) occupation. There used to be a CELE(land), but now there's just Signals on the Army side.
The simplest way to describe the typical job of a CELE is that they are responsible for everything electronic on an air base except for what's on the air planes themselves. That includes radar, radio, computers, networks, phones, etc.

1. KAF = Kandahar Air Field, not exactly an air force base. The most common CELE deployments will be in support of communications, which may or may not include an air base.
2. Right now, the CELE course runs for 89 training days, and they run two serials per year. I'm not sure about the French training - I know they used to take you right out of basic and stick you on French for a few months, but I believe that's all changed now. Starting next year, CELE's will also be doing Common Army Phase (last I heard anyway).
3. Work hard, do some more research. Remember that CELE is an officer occupation, it may be technical but you'll rarely (depends...) get your hands dirty.
4. Of course it is  Just kidding. Sigs and CELEs work together on a lot of things, our roles overlap in a few areas. As for who's more technical, can't really say.

As for the polygraph thing, I have yet to take one...


----------



## PuckChaser

SpitfireXVI said:
			
		

> Also another question I have is do you eventually have to do a polygraph?
> 
> I have nothing to hide, but during my undergrad I did a report on polygraphs and used a lot of information from this site:
> 
> http://antipolygraph.org/
> 
> So I'm worried I'll be very nervous because I don't believe polygraphs really work and that they have a lot of false positives. Also they probably ask if you ever researched counter measures, which I have for the report I wrote for a class I took.



I've gone through a lot of screening to get my clearances, and never once did a polygraph. If they need information about you, its easier to ask around or investigate than to worry about false positives on a polygraph.


----------



## 211RadOp

DVessey said:
			
		

> 1. KAF = Kandahar Air Field, not exactly an air force base. The most common CELE deployments will be in support of communications, which may or may not include an air base.



True, somewhat. CFJSR has a number of CELE Officers posted there and a few have been employed as the NCCIS Tp Comd in KAF. So yes most of the deployements will be in supposrt of communications, there is the possibility of going to KAF dependant on where you are posted.


----------



## Drag

DVessey did a pretty good job.  I just have a few things to add.  I heard that CELE will not be doing exactly CAP but an AF version of it....  There is a variety of postings in the CELE(Air) world, from very technical engineer and project management type positions in Ottawa to Troop Commander positions at JSR to positions on airfields.  You could end up in any one of them.  
Almost having finished school, I assume you are a DEO. DEOs had to do 8 months of French but that practice was discontinued last year.  Now it is IAP/BOTC then OJT for however long it takes you to get on course and then CELE(Air) Basic.  Sweating in to trade qualified can be anything from a year to 3-4 years ( course failures, medical issues, etc).  I did the 8 months of french and it took me about a year and a half to get fully qualified.

As for Sigs vs CELE, from what I have seen you cannot really say one is more technical than the  other...  They both have their peculiarities and in the Ottawa-type technical positions CELE and Sigs officers are interchangeable.


----------



## Zoomie

I'm curious to know more about the support trades of the RCAF - I know that they are out there listening - how about telling us about job conditions, deployments and the day-to-day experience.


----------



## aesop081

;D

Wrong section dude.........


----------



## Zoomie

I'm sure a Mod will come along and move it down a couple of boards....  

Chock it up to friday afternoon sleepy head.


----------



## Scott

Done. I think...


----------



## jmlane

Zoomie said:
			
		

> I'm curious to know more about the support trades of the RCAF - I know that they are out there listening - how about telling us about job conditions, deployments and the day-to-day experience.


I would like to echo this interest getting an account of the CELE(A) trade duties, daily activities, and posting opportunities. It doesn't seem like this forum has any identifiable posts already outlining this information.

Thanks!


----------



## REDinstaller

C & E officers are in 2 trades. SIGS for the Army and CELE for Air.


----------



## jmlane

Tango18A said:
			
		

> C & E officers are in 2 trades. SIGS for the Army and CELE for Air.


Are you implying that SIGS and CELE officers do the same job but are separate MOCs for their respective elements? If not, I think I missed your point.

Are you able to provide a description of what officers in either MOC will be doing on average? I believe that is what Zoomie was looking for (specifically for CELE(A) O). I'm interested in the ICT trades of both elements but this may not be the proper forum for a SIGS discussion.


----------



## REDinstaller

Jobs for Sigs Officers within the Army are far more demanding than would be a CELE Officer in the Air Force. Sig O's can count on being Duty O's in CP's and the CO's adviser on communications issues (once he confirms his advice with the SNCO's). In my experience, CELE O's are Base or Wing Tech advisers and don't deploy with the units from that base. But again every thing is dependant on employment location.


----------



## Occam

Tango18A said:
			
		

> Jobs for Sigs Officers within the Army are far more demanding than would be a CELE Officer in the Air Force. Sig O's can count on being Duty O's in CP's and the CO's adviser on communications issues (once he confirms his advice with the SNCO's). In my experience, CELE O's are Base or Wing Tech advisers and don't deploy with the units from that base. But again every thing is dependant on employment location.



I think there are a lot of CELE officers out there who would disagree with you.  There are only a very limited number of Base/Wing positions for CELE - the vast majority of CELE positions would be in technical positions in the dot COMs, the various Comm Gps, ATESS, etc.  I'm pretty sure I have a list here somewhere of positions for CELE officers.  If I can find it I'll post it.


----------



## REDinstaller

Hence why i said in my experience. When I was at Wing Telecom in the early 90's, the Wing Tel O was CELE, and so was the TMO at 742 Comm Sqn.

Even when i deployed on TF 1-07, the only CELE i encountered was the G6 ECM 2.

And the tech posn's might be mentally demanding, but not as physically demanding as following the troops with C/S 0A or 0B. But this is my  :2c:


----------



## Occam

Tango18A said:
			
		

> And the tech posn's might be mentally demanding, but not as physically demanding as following the troops with *C/S 0A or 0B*.



Hey, this is the Air Force forum.  We'll have none of that kind of language in here!   ;D


----------



## REDinstaller

I guess it must be hard to move the Holiday Inn then. Is that better for la chair force.  >


----------



## jmlane

Thanks for the replies. Some of the acronyms are lost on me, but I get a sense that there are various postings available to both trades. I would enjoy seeing your list, Occam, if you could find it.


----------



## Occam

It's okay...I just finished 26 years in the mob, and some of them were lost on me too.  Them Army fellas talk funny.    

PM sent.


----------



## jmlane

Thanks again for the valuable information, Occam.

My interest in the CELE trade is a bit of a long term goal (5-10 years most likely) as I have yet to complete my undergrad and I am contemplating some time in as an NCM for the unique experience that will offer (and the financial benefits available will help me finish my undergrad and make me eligible for a commission).

I posted elsewhere about my perceived ideal CF career path. I have an idea of what I'd like to do but not clear sense of the trade to which I'm best suited at this time. I am still trying to research the actual day-to-day duties in the common postings for new NCMs of various trades—especially the C&E Branch trades—but I won't hijack this CELE thread further with those questions (keep an eye open for my posts in other forums though ).


----------



## secondchance

I am interested in CELE because I have BAC in electronics.
Just curious if somebody else are going to apply when next financial year will start in April,1st ,2012.
Do you have any information how many spots per year?


----------



## cupper

Occam said:
			
		

> It's okay...I just finished 26 years in the mob, and some of them were lost on me too.  Them Army fellas talk funny.
> 
> PM sent.



Not as funny as the Navy. I think they just like making names up.


----------



## secondchance

One more question about CELE.
I saw information on www.forces.ca 


> Following your successful application, you will be enrolled in the Canadian Forces and undertake Initial Assessment and the Basic Officer Training Course at the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec. You will learn the principles of leadership, the regulations and customs of the service, basic weapons handling, and first aid. You will also take part in a rigorous program of sports and fitness training. Basic Officer Training is given in English or French and successful completion is a prerequisite for further training. After Basic Officer Training, you may attend a second language training course lasting from two to seven months, depending on your second language proficiency.
> 
> Basic Occupational Training
> 
> Basic CELE (AIR) Occupational Course – Module 1. This course lasts approximately 8 weeks and consists of formal training conducted at the Canadian Forces School of Communications and Electronics (CFSCE) in Kingston, Ontario. It is normally offered once a year, during the summer months. The course is designed to introduce you to the Communications and Electronics Branch, and provide you with the technical knowledge necessary to manage communications information systems (CIS) and airfield systems in the Canadian Forces.
> 
> Basic CELE (AIR) Occupational Course – Module 2. This course, lasting approximately 11 weeks, is conducted at CFSCE Kingston. It is normally offered once a year, during the fall and winter. It builds on the theory taught in Module 1 and introduces you to more advanced military communications and electronics theory and its applications. You will also learn how to plan CIS support to deployed operations and how to deploy CIS equipment. The course also provides you with the business management skills required by all CELE (AIR) Officers. Upon successful completion of this course, you will be assigned to a leadership position at your first unit with in the Canadian Forces.


So Traning can be
 BMOQ---- language school ----- Basic CELE (AIR) Occupational Course – Module 1 ----- Basic CELE (AIR) Occupational Course – Module 2
or
BMOQ------ Basic CELE (AIR) Occupational Course – Module 1------- Basic CELE (AIR) Occupational Course – Module 2

Am I right?
Language school is mandatory?


----------



## Occam

secondchance said:
			
		

> I am interested in CELE because I have BAC in electronics.



What's a BAC?



			
				secondchance said:
			
		

> Language school is mandatory?



It is if you don't meet a certain profile if you come in via DEO.  It would appear from the recruiting website that language training would be after BOTC, but I wouldn't imagine that's cast in stone.


----------



## aesop081

Occam said:
			
		

> What's a BAC?



A bachelor degree.


----------



## secondchance

Occam said:
			
		

> It is if you don't meet a certain profile if you come in via DEO.  It would appear from the recruiting website that language training would be after BOTC, but I wouldn't imagine that's cast in stone.


What do you mean -  *you don't meet a certain profile if you come in via DEO* ?
Website clearly says:


> Direct Entry Officer - Direct Entry applicants must hold the degree of Bachelor of Engineering or Bachelor of Science from an accredited Canadian university. The preferred degree is the Bachelor of Engineering in one of the following disciplines: Electrical/Electronics, Computer or Physics. Consideration will also be given to those holding the degree of Bachelor of Engineering in Aerospace Systems Management, Mechanical Engineering or Nuclear Engineering, or a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science, Applied Science, Mathematics, Physics or Space Science.


What can be else?


----------



## DexOlesa

He was talking about Language Training. You are given a profile in your second language. You have to be at a certain level, or you go to Second Language Training. That's what he meant by certain profile.


----------



## aesop081

secondchance said:
			
		

> What do you mean -  *you don't meet a certain profile if you come in via DEO* ?
> Website clearly says:What can be else?



He was not talking about a degree. He was talking about language proficiency. If you cant speak the second language to a minimum capability, off to language school you go.


----------



## secondchance

Thanks. It is clear now.
Are there people  who were doing training CELE recently?


----------



## Drag

I did it about 4 years ago...


----------



## secondchance

D3 said:
			
		

> I did it about 4 years ago...


How  long it was in your case after BMOQ? What did you have a after and how long ?
1.BMOQ 15 weeks
2.
3.


----------



## secondchance

Who knows is CELE is open now for applications?
Thanks


----------



## aesop081

secondchance said:
			
		

> Who knows is CELE is open now for applications?



Recruiting centres.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

secondchance said:
			
		

> Who knows is CELE is open now for applications?
> Thanks



Like CDN Aviator says, CFRCs have the 'live' numbers.

Intake is broken down into different entry plans, so it depends on what plan you are hoping to enter.  According to the document I am looking at (12/13 SIP), they are only taking CELE from CFRCs via ROTP (18 this year); no DEO and no CEOTP.  That SIP is dated 23 Mar 12, so...who knows what has changed?  CFRCs.

Internal #s look like SCP (1), CFR (1) and UTPNCM (2).


----------



## secondchance

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Like CDN Aviator says, CFRCs have the 'live' numbers.
> 
> Intake is broken down into different entry plans, so it depends on what plan you are hoping to enter.  According to the document I am looking at (12/13 SIP), they are only taking CELE from CFRCs via ROTP (18 this year); no DEO and no CEOTP.  That SIP is dated 23 Mar 12, so...who knows what has changed?  CFRCs.
> 
> Internal #s look like SCP (1), CFR (1) and UTPNCM (2).


Thanks


----------



## secondchance

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Recruiting centres.


Thanks.
I called them today- CELE is closed now.


----------



## secondchance

CELE is " in Demand " now 
http://www.forces.ca/en/home


----------



## opcougar

So is:

Signals officer; and
Medical officer


----------



## secondchance

opcougar said:
			
		

> So is:
> 
> Signals officer; and
> Medical officer


Yes, but this topic about CELE


----------



## secondchance

News about CELE. CAP is not part of training for CELE now.


----------



## VanIslander

Question:  In the video on forces.ca for CELE, there's a scene where it shows some infantry on patrol somewhere with the camera focused on the radio operator.  Was that just to highlight that communications are super important?  Or do CELEs actually go out on patrol and act as the "radio guy"?

Just seems odd to me to have an engineer in the air force out doing that... kind of a misallocation of resources, when someone from combat arms with actual infantry training would probably do a much better job anyways I would think.


----------



## PuckChaser

If a CELE officer is ever carrying a radio on patrol, we're in a world of hurt.

Don't read too much into the recruiting videos. Cool army stuff sells because making a video about sitting in an office planning a complex communications network is like watching paint dry. I'm still waiting for the Eryx missile system the Sig Op recruiting video promised.


----------



## VanIslander

Ha!

Makes sense, thanks.


----------



## DarkPheonix

*Question Deleted and posted to another Thread*


----------



## DarkPheonix

Good Day,

I had a couple of questions for any CELE officers or anyone who could provide me with answers to my questions. I have read all the threads about them that I could find on here and they were informative but I had a couple of questions that weren't answered on the threads or the forces.ca website.

1. What would a CELE recruit at RMCC expect to do during the summers for OJT? Where would we go and what would we do?


> *PROFESSIONAL TRAINING*
> Communications and Electronic Engineering Officers attend the Canadian Forces School of Communications and Electronics in Kingston, Ontario. Training lasts 19 weeks and covers the following topics:
> 
> The organization of the Communications and Electronics Branch
> Communications Information Systems and airfield systems management
> Advanced military communications and electronics theory
> Communications Information Systems support planning for deployed operations
> The deployment of Communications Information Systems equipment
> Business management skills


The "Professional Training" I would expect to be after I finish my degree at RMCC or am I wrong?

2. I plan to take Computer Engineering is that a good choice for this trade?

3. I am interested in the security aspect of this trade, would I be able to enter within my area of interest?

4. I saw on the forces.ca website that they offer specialty courses, when would we do these? Is there a limit on how many of those we can do? If yes what is the limit?


> *SPECIALTY TRAINING*
> Communications and Electronic Engineering Officers may be offered the opportunity to develop specialized skills through formal courses and on-the-job training, including:
> 
> Air Operations Command and Control Information Systems course
> Radio and satellite communications
> Electronic Intelligence
> Communications and network security
> Cryptographic systems



5. What is typical career path I would go through? For example I would probably start out as a junior under a senior CELE officer in a Canadian air base. Could you provide me with a much more detailed pathway.

6. Would I be deployed with the army or navy? I know that the army had Signal officers but what about the navy? What kind of places can I be expected to b deployed to?

7. How fast/slow does a CELE officer climb through the ranks? How do their responsibilities change as they climb up the ranks?

8. Would I as a CELE officer be able to do the technical aspect of the job or would I simply supervise the NCM technicians do the work and direct them?

9. What is your typical Day as a CELE officer? I would like some details please.

10. If I leave the CF after however long I am there how valued will these skills be in the civilian IT industry?

I know these are a lot of questions and I would be very grateful if you could answer them for me.

Thank You
  

_*P.S.*_ This post was merged with another thread but that thread was inactive for the last 5 months so I created a new post. If the mod's are going to delete one could you please delete that one. 

Thank You very much :sorry:


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## PuckChaser

DarkPheonix said:
			
		

> _*P.S.*_ This post was merged with another thread but that thread was inactive for the last 5 months so I created a new post. If the mod's are going to delete one could you please delete that one.



You clearly don't know how message boards work. That CELE thread is inactive, but you posting there makes it active and makes it a lot easier to search for answers, instead of 15 threads asking the same questions. There's 4 pages of info there on CELE, and you should probably read it, as it likely answers all of these questions you have here. I'm positive I've seen all of them answered here before.


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## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You clearly don't know how message boards work. That CELE thread is inactive, but you posting there makes it active and makes it a lot easier to search for answers, instead of 15 threads asking the same questions. There's 4 pages of info there on CELE, and you should probably read it, as it likely answers all of these questions you have here. I'm positive I've seen all of them answered here before.



It may also act as an "indicator" that this person is not CELE material.  

And Merged once again......DarkPheonix......READ MORE - Post less.

Here, let me Google that for you.


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## DarkPheonix

_*PuckChaser*_


			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You clearly don't know how message boards work. That CELE thread is inactive, but you posting there makes it active and makes it a lot easier to search for answers, instead of 15 threads asking the same questions. There's 4 pages of info there on CELE, and you should probably read it, as it likely answers all of these questions you have here. I'm positive I've seen all of them answered here before.


I apologize for creating another thread, I hadn't though of it like that, I thought that since this thread had been inactive for 4-5 months it would be buried deep under all the other posts and that no one would look at it. I apologize once more for more my mistake.  :bowdown:

I also did read through this entire thread before posting these questions.

_*George Wallace*_


			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> It may also act as an "indicator" that this person is not CELE material.
> 
> And Merged once again......DarkPheonix......READ MORE - Post less.
> 
> Here, let me Google that for you.


I also apologize to you Mr. Wallace for creating another thread after it was merged once before, I did it for the reason I stated above.

Regarding the link you provided me with Mr. Wallace, I've already found them all and read them other than the _"CELE - what's it all about? - Army.ca"_ and _"CELE COURSE IN KINGSTON - Army.ca"_ and thank you for those links, but when I try to read the _"CELE - what's it all about? - Army.ca"_ thread it says  _"The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."_ is there a reason for that or just a bug? 

The questions I wrote were if I hadn't were if I hadn't encountered it on these forums or if I hadn't read a sufficient amount of detail regarding that subject. In hindsight perhaps question #8 was a pointless question as I'd already read answer to that on multiple posts but I would still like answers to the other questions if possible.

Thank You,


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## PuckChaser

First block of 4 look like they link to threads that have been deleted, or moved to the dead thread archive so only moderators can read them.


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## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> First block of 4 look like they link to threads that have been deleted, or moved to the dead thread archive so only moderators can read them.



Actually, quite often when we merge topics, the link addresses are changed resulting in bringing up those messages.


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## Vrunda

What are the options available for CELE trade - is it more about electrical/mechanical eng. ?
Does it have IT field /or it is more software related   ? 
I heard CELE course training has higher failure rates in class?Is it tough ?


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## be_Kingstonian

Has anyone started as CELE officer in Air , 2018? 

May I ask IF anyone had an enrollment bonus for DEO ? 

Thanks,


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## macarena

Hi, Mates!
May I consider this thread as the right one concerning the trade Communication Electronics Engineering Officers?
I did a search and this is the most recently updated from 2 other topics:
https://army.ca/forums/threads/81830.0.html#lastPost
https://army.ca/forums/threads/73745.0

I would like to ask if someone know what is the necessary level of clearance for this trade.


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## dleonj

You need security Level 3


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