# Canadian troops recieve Leopards in Afghanistan



## GAP (6 Feb 2011)

Armor Discussion Board
http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/2-22313.aspx
Subject: Canadian troops recieve Leopards in Afghanistan (photos)
Nasty German Idiot     2/5/2011 1:07:02 PM
Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan received five of twenty upgraded Leopard 2 A4M CAN (Leopard 2) tanks between December 2010 and mid January 2011. The new tanks arrived freshly off the production line of Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) as part of the tank replacement project by the Director General Land Equipment Program Management to replace some of the Leopard 2 A6M CAN tanks that have been deployed in theatre since 2007.


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## lethalLemon (6 Feb 2011)

such a beauty!


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## PuckChaser (6 Feb 2011)

Good thing we got the tanks there now.... get 6 months of mileage on them before they're back on an Antonov.


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## Fishbone Jones (6 Feb 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Good thing we got the tanks there now.... get 6 months of mileage on them before they're back on an Antonov.



Don't count your chickens. A lot of things can happen in six months.

There are likely a lot of contract details we are not privy to also.



_edit: spelling_


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## Nfld Sapper (6 Feb 2011)

And I doubt they would be shipped back to canada via air.......


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## GAP (6 Feb 2011)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> And I doubt they would be shipped back to canada via air.......



There's no crying need to airlift them back....


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## VIChris (7 Feb 2011)

Stupid new guy question: What's all the bar grating that is on these tanks, and many other vehicles I've seen photos of overseas? My moderately educated guess is that it would help defeat some forms of RPG.


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## PuckChaser (7 Feb 2011)

Slat Armor, and I believe you're almost dead on with your guess. One of the Tango types here can better explain it.


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## brihard (7 Feb 2011)

VIChris said:
			
		

> Stupid new guy question: What's all the bar grating that is on these tanks, and many other vehicles I've seen photos of overseas? My moderately educated guess is that it would help defeat some forms of RPG.



Yup. It prematurely detonates shaped charge warheads so that most of their explosive power is wasted. There are some charges with tandem warheads to defeat this. Slat armour technology actually dates back to WW2, but has recently made a resurgence.


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## HavokFour (7 Feb 2011)

Shiny! 

We're going to bring this back with us once we're done, right? It would be a crying shame to leave such a beauty behind.


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## VIChris (7 Feb 2011)

Thanks, gents.


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## George Wallace (7 Feb 2011)

GAP said:
			
		

> There's no crying need to airlift them back....



I would hate to see them held for Ransom in Pakistan or on some ship at sea.  Or has that memory faded into the abyss?


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## GAP (7 Feb 2011)

If it takes 3 months by sea vs 1-2 weeks by air....compare cost vs immediate need. The basic economics kinda jump out at you. 

As for being held for ransom.....I would hope the CF/Government would have solved those niggling little problems by now....


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## The Bread Guy (7 Feb 2011)

A bit more on this from the CF:


> Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan received five of twenty upgraded Leopard 2 A4M CAN (Leopard 2) tanks between December 2010 and mid January 2011. The new tanks arrived freshly off the production line of Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) as part of the tank replacement project by the Director General Land Equipment Program Management to replace some of the Leopard 2 A6M CAN tanks that have been deployed in theatre since 2007.
> 
> Click to enlarge The new Leopard 2 A4M tanks replace some of the Leopard 2 A6M CAN tanks that have been deployed in theatre since 2007. The new Leopard 2 A4M tanks replace some of the Leopard 2 A6M CAN tanks that have been deployed in theatre since 2007.
> The deployment of the upgraded tanks will ensure Canadian soldiers continue to sustain ongoing combat operations and fulfill Canada’s commitment to its coalition partners until the end of the mission in Afghanistan.
> ...


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## JSR OP (7 Feb 2011)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I would hate to see them held for Ransom in Pakistan or on some ship at sea.  Or has that memory faded into the abyss?



I'm willing to bet they will be flown out of Afghanistan by antonov or IL 76 (assuming IL 76 can carry one)  to an intermediate staging area in Germany or Cyprus, cleaned top to bottom to get all the Afghan dirt off them, and then loaded on a ship to sail back to Canada.


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## George Wallace (7 Feb 2011)

JSR OP said:
			
		

> I'm willing to bet they will be flown out of Afghanistan by antonov or IL 76 (assuming IL 76 can carry one)  to an intermediate staging area in Germany or Cyprus, cleaned top to bottom to get all the Afghan dirt off them, and then loaded on a ship to sail back to Canada.



A possibility, however, I highly doubt that these vehicles, or any equipment, will be allowed out of country without a total cleaning top to bottom.  The idea is to do that before they leave, otherwise contaminants will be brought into another nation.   There are strick regulations for transporting equipment, even between provinces here at home, reference the cleaning of that equipment so as not to transport seeds or other biological entities across borders.


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## JSR OP (7 Feb 2011)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> A possibility, however, I highly doubt that these vehicles, or any equipment, will be allowed out of country without a total cleaning top to bottom.  The idea is to do that before they leave, otherwise contaminants will be brought into another nation.   There are strick regulations for transporting equipment, even between provinces here at home, reference the cleaning of that equipment so as not to transport seeds or other biological entities across borders.



I'm not sure what has happened in the past, just before they leave Afghanistan, but I do know that they have been cleaned top to bottom in a third country before they are loaded onto a ship to be returned to Canada.


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## REDinstaller (7 Feb 2011)

That might be a secondary cleaning, but not the primary. Try telling your mother that you cleaned your boots at home before you walk all over her carpet with them. Good Luck with that.


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## JSR OP (7 Feb 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> That might be a secondary cleaning, but not the primary. Try telling your mother that you cleaned your boots at home before you walk all over her carpet with them. Good Luck with that.



Like I said, I don't know what kind of cleaning they had in Afghanistan before they got on the plane.  I wasn't there.  I can tell you that the guys who did conduct the wash-ops in the third country did so to CFIA standards, then loaded them on the boat.  

Now that was a few years ago, so things very well might have changed since then.


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## REDinstaller (7 Feb 2011)

A Leo of any type will take quite a while to have cleaned to CFIA standards. I was on 1-07 in the Tank Sqn so at that point they had only been in theater for almost 4 months. And there was inches of dust and dirt in the hulls, not all of it in reachable spots either. Hopefully the rains are good this year to build up the rivers so we can clean all of the heavy kit.


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Feb 2011)

I would expect a flight from Afghanistan to Germany, like a service, then slowboated as a group from Europe to Canada.


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## REDinstaller (7 Feb 2011)

Then they can go on to a repair facility in Germany before they come home.


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## JSR OP (7 Feb 2011)

The RGs and the LAVs that were washed in the third location each took hours to do.  I wasn't part of the wash ops, but for some reason, 4 hours a piece comes to mind- but don't quote me on that.  They were pressure washed inside and out, as well as the guys getting in and doing the hard to reach places by hand too.  It was a dirty, messy, wet job for the guys that did it.


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## George Wallace (7 Feb 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> Then they can go on to a repair facility in Germany before they come home.



If only.  I am sure that some sort of deal is already in the works for 202 Workshop or DEW Engineering to do refurbs.


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## REDinstaller (7 Feb 2011)

If DEW or 202 does it, then we might need to refurb their refurbs due to their track record in some aspects. The Grizzlys were done so-so. Can't call new paint a refurb.

JSR OP,

4 hrs wouldn't even get the suspension cleaned out in some cases on a MBT. Look to be days per C/S. And that is after the Add on Armour is removed.


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## JSR OP (7 Feb 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> JSR OP,
> 
> 4 hrs wouldn't even get the suspension cleaned out in some cases on a MBT. Look to be days per C/S. And that is after the Add on Armour is removed.



Ok, I'll believe you.  the only real first hand knowledge I have of Leopard tanks is that the grounds shakes when they come to visit you in the field.


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## REDinstaller (7 Feb 2011)

And thats what we call Shock. Puts fear in the troops you are attacking. I always like visiting HQ with my ARV.


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## JSR OP (7 Feb 2011)

We had a Leopard come visit us during my JLC in Pet.  We were all resting, and then the ground started shaking before we could hear the engine!  It was a What the F&#^?!?! moment for sure!  At least it was for me!


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## McG (7 Feb 2011)

Has anyone heard opinion from any of the crews that fought the 2A6 and are now operating in the 2A4M CAN?  Are we happy with our new machines?


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## REDinstaller (7 Feb 2011)

JSR OP said:
			
		

> We had a Leopard come visit us during my JLC in Pet.  We were all resting, and then the ground started shaking before we could hear the engine!  It was a What the F&#^?!?! moment for sure!  At least it was for me!



When did you do your JLC?


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## Haletown (7 Feb 2011)

CASR's take


http://www.casr.ca/doc-dnd-leopard-2a4m.htm


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## JSR OP (7 Feb 2011)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> When did you do your JLC?



Way back in Jun 2002...


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## mover1 (7 Feb 2011)

Colin P said:
			
		

> I would expect a flight from Afghanistan to Germany, like a service, then slowboated as a group from Europe to Canada.



Limassol Cyprus actually.


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## aesop081 (7 Feb 2011)

JSR OP said:
			
		

> Way back in Jun 2002...



2002 is "way back" ??


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## Kat Stevens (7 Feb 2011)

Yeah it is, way back when I retired.


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## REDinstaller (7 Feb 2011)

JSR OP said:
			
		

> Way back in Jun 2002...



Just wondering, in 2009 the RCD only had a single Leopard. So i was hoping you didn't do your course then, as it's more awe inspiring to hear a Sabre Sqn bearing down on your positon vice a single Leo.


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## JSR OP (8 Feb 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> 2002 is "way back" ??



I guess it depends on perspective...  It sure feels way back lately.


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## Franko (8 Feb 2011)

The slate armor doesn't detonate RPGs, it shreds the war head.

Leo2 Ops has differences from the A6M that won't be discussed here.

The RCD had a tank Sqn until 04 and got in a troop's worth in late 07 for workup training for TF 3-08.

Regards


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## George Wallace (8 Feb 2011)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> The RCD had a tank Sqn until 04 and got in a troop's worth in late 07 for workup training for TF 3-08.
> 
> Regards



2003.  'Best Time Ever 2003'  : was when we left our tanks out in Wainwright.  Fifty per cent of B Sqn put in their Release right after that.


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