# Need advice ... in a tough situation



## Zach15 (2 Jul 2006)

Hey all,

    If any of you remember me from about a month or so ago, I was applying to be a pilot with the forces. Well, everything was great. I passed aircrew and got my offer and was sent to my basic training in St. Jean, CFLRS. That is where I am currently. Now heres my problem


    Last week after we had just gotten off the range I received a call from my platoon CO. He told me that a captain from borden had just called him and that they found me medically unfit for the pilot MOC. It was like I was hit by a truck. The next day I got back in contact with him and found out that the problem was with my eyes - which WERE given a grade of V1 before I went to aircrew selection. It is my understanding that you have to have good enough vision to even go to aircrew selection in trenton!? Needless to say I am very stressed right now, and its making my IAP much harder. 

    So I have a couple options, and I am going to have to make a decision in the next couple months (before school starts)


     When i am finished this course and go back home, I am to have my eyes retested and hopefully the results are good. I need to find out exactly what the problem is with them and what exactly it is I need to pass.

    If that doesnt work out, I either have to choose another MOC and continue on in ROTP or voluntary release. 

      Right now I am thinking either two paths: 
1) Air Navigator: Under this MOC apparently it is easier to remuster to pilot. I have heard rumors that the requirements for vision may be lowered in he next couple years for pilot. The downside to this is that if I am not able to switch to pilot I wouldn't be very employable on the civi side if I wanted to leave the military after my contract is over.
2) Log Air: I was thinking logistics because it coincides with my business degree quite well, and if I wanted to leave the military it is quite easy to find a business job with experience in this field.

    Now, I don't want everyone to think I just wanted to do my initial contract and get out. I signed on the dotted line thinking I was going pilot, I had no other choices down. I find it very frustrating that they have me over half way completed my IAP course when they tell me I am not able to pursue my dream trade. 

   Does anyone know if the rumors of lowered standards for pilot may be true in the next couple years? Anyone have any advice for my situation? Thanks for any suggestions, I really havent done much research on other trades because It was always pilot or bust for me. But now I have given up any civilian summer employment for this course and need it to fund my education. 

          Thanks all.

p.s. I am going to the field for 4 days tomorrow so I won't be able to check the responses until next weekend.
   Also, sorry if this is messy and rushed; there is time limits on the internet here on base.

             Zach


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## Trinity (2 Jul 2006)

Well... if you're in the military so you can get out and have a good civilian career...  you're in for the wrong reason

Choose a trade you like and will excel at.  Don't choose a trade because it will or will not help you on your civilian
qualifications.  The military for most of us is a job, not a stepping stone to a better civilian job.


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## Hot Lips (2 Jul 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Well... if you're in the military so you can get out and have a good civilian career...  you're in for the wrong reason
> 
> Choose a trade you like and will excel at.  Don't choose a trade because it will or will not help you on your civilian
> qualifications.  The military for most of us is a job, not a stepping stone to a better civilian job.


Ditto

HL


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## ark (2 Jul 2006)

Why don't you VR for now, maybe join a reserve unit (if you are willing to train in another trade part time) and if ever vision standards are lowered, try again for Pilot ?


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## HItorMiss (2 Jul 2006)

Well Trinity is in fact very succinct and correct in his assessment and advice but I will add some small points

Think about more then just a few trades, I can think of a multitude of trades where your business degree would come in handy not just Log. There are so many trades for young smart educated people that perhaps your simply selling yourself short on the "Pilot or Bust" mentality. When you get back from the field ask your chain if they can schedule a PSO interview so you can investigate some options with someone who's job it is to steer you in the right direction.


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## navymich (2 Jul 2006)

+1 to Trinity and HoM

But also, a few things for clarification:  You said you passed aircrew.  Shouldn't this mean that you passed the medical portion as well?  Have you already done the aircrew selection in Trenton, or just the extra eye tests required through CFRC?

I understand that this isn't making things easier on IAP for you right now, but if you don't get through this, you won't even need to worry about what you want to do in the future.  Take some deep breaths, find a buddy and vent, and carry on.  If there is nothing that you can do about it until you have completed IAP, then you're going to have to keep going.  However, I am sure that there are some calls that you can make, or through your divisional system, to get some clarification and see if anything can be done about this now (a review of your medical file maybe?).

Best of luck, and stay strong.


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## GO!!! (2 Jul 2006)

Zach,

I'd stick with your current training and finish at least this summer. This way you will be able to pay for school. If after all is said and done, your eyes are simply not up to the task, leave. I would not reccommend to anyone that they stick around in a "second choice" job. Nothing worse than doing a job you hate! Do what you love - first choices only.

There is no shame in completing your IAP this summer, taking the paycheque and paying for civilian school. The CF bureaucracy essentially screwed you by not telling you that you were unfit for your chosen trade until you had already forfeited the chance at other summer jobs and committed to them. Also, if you DO decide to come back next summer for more training, you will have to repeat what you have already accomplished - finish the step you have taken, and THEN re-evaluate.


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## SupersonicMax (2 Jul 2006)

Hi.  I would go AirNav.  They get to fly and the OT to pilot is easier than any other trade AND the eye standard is lowered for a qualified Nav that OT to pilot than a new guy. 

Max


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## IN HOC SIGNO (2 Jul 2006)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Zach,
> 
> I'd stick with your current training and finish at least this summer. This way you will be able to pay for school. If after all is said and done, your eyes are simply not up to the task, leave. I would not reccommend to anyone that they stick around in a "second choice" job. Nothing worse than doing a job you hate! Do what you love - first choices only.
> 
> There is no shame in completing your IAP this summer, taking the paycheque and paying for civilian school. The CF bureaucracy essentially screwed you by not telling you that you were unfit for your chosen trade until you had already forfeited the chance at other summer jobs and committed to them. Also, if you DO decide to come back next summer for more training, you will have to repeat what you have already accomplished - finish the step you have taken, and THEN re-evaluate.



I think all of what others have said is good and this. Don't quit just cause you've met a bump in the road. Hang in and start getting some other opinions. I have a Captain who worked for me who was yanked out of theatre and refused her promotion...and told she was going to be released because some bureaucrat in the medical system in Ottawa, who had never met her or examined her made a stupid decision. She appealed and redressed all of it and got the Medical folks on base on her side...long story short...she's got her promotion and her career back and everything has been re-instated....took about 8 months.
It's a big unwieldy system...someone screwed up and don't just take the first person at face value...do some digging and get what you need. I suggest you finish basic and then start to do this. Your dream is not dead...you just may have to do a little extra to get things on track. God bless I hope things go well.


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## Zach15 (2 Jul 2006)

Thanks all for the replys, and especially to you GO!


     Don't get me wrong, I am defenetly not here just to leave and get a better civi job, I just haven't had the time to decide whether or not a different trade than pilot is something I would want to do for 25 years.

   And about the aircrew thing, that is what I also do not understand. I had my eye exam before I went to trenton, and they were given V1. It had it on the front of my confidential medical file that I brought with me. As far as I know, if I didnt have V1 than I should never of been flown to trenton to do aircrew. Someone messed up somewhere along the line, I defenetly shouldn't be this far into the process before being shut down because my eyes aren't good enough

   For now my plan is to finish IAP and then go home and have my eyes tested again, knowing exactly what limits they have to be within.


      Does anyone know what the situation would be for me trying to switch from Air Nav to pilot?

     I am going to try and get ahold of my ULO when I have a spare minute and talk to her about this. I am really interested to find out why my eyes were given V1 before and now they are not.. it doesn't add up.. and its really making things hard right now.

    I also defenetly need to talk to a career councelor about what trades a business degree would work with.

                   Talk to all of you soon,

                        Zach


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## kincanucks (2 Jul 2006)

Zach15 said:
			
		

> Thanks all for the replys, and especially to you GO!
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am defenetly not here just to leave and get a better civi job, I just haven't had the time to decide whether or not a different trade than pilot is something I would want to do for 25 years.
> ...


Too bad about your vision change but these things happen.  Better to find out before you got to far in the Pilot training system.  Remember there are many facets to vision testing and perhaps they found something on review of your file that wasn't there before.  Make the best of it and choose another occupation and move on.


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## aesop081 (2 Jul 2006)

Zach15 said:
			
		

> Thanks all for the replys, and especially to you GO!
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am defenetly not here just to leave and get a better civi job, I just haven't had the time to decide whether or not a different trade than pilot is something I would want to do for 25 years.
> ...



I dont know what happenned in you case but sometimes , when your file goes to DCIEM ( now DRDC Toronto i think) it get evaluated by people there.  In my case, i received one vision category during my aircrew medical at the base hospital and when it was reviewed by DCIEM for concurence, they did not agree with the base flight surgeon's assesement and gave me a different vision category.  i am not saying that this is your situation but i'm saying that it is possible that there has been some delays in the processing somewhere.  Keep this in mind as you investigate what has happenned.

I will caution you though on this going Nav and remustering to pilot.  Regardless of what some individuals have said, this is a route you have to be cautious in taking.  remustering is never a guarateed thing, specialy considering that the nav trade is short on numbers.  Also, in most MOCs, you are required to have attained a certain level of qualification before you can OT, so you could spend several years in a trade before even qualifying to apply for OT.  trust me on this one...unlike some other posters in this threat who treat OTs lightly, i have experience at it.

Things to keep in mind....thats all


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## Enzo (2 Jul 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Make the best of it and choose another occupation and move on.



Don't do anything drastic or impulsive; keep on the path you're on. Finish this phase of your training then determine the exact nature of the issue at hand regarding your eyes and if you think that you can fight it, do so. If not, then discuss your situation as HoM suggested with a career counsellor and see what options are available to you. As others have said, do not restrict yourself to just one trade/lifestyle, for there are many ways to have your cake. I am a commercially trained pilot and there was a time (long ago) when I thought that flying in the Air Force would have been the only way for me, but I realized that I absolutely love the infantry and that's where I belong. Now I fly when I get the chance (admittedly not as often as I once enjoyed) for myself on my terms and I no longer feel like a bus driver in the sky.

And never base your career decisions upon the prospects of a future OT. There are too many variables to be factored and its a very individual experience.


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## Zach15 (2 Jul 2006)

I think I need to get in contact with some AirNav's and other people who have experience in different trades before I will be able to make my decision. I really am lost and need some advice from someone who knows more about all of my different options.

    Thanks to everyone here who has posted, maybe a couple of you will have a message from me in your inbox in the next little while asking for some insight  


                 - Zach


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## h3tacco (12 Jul 2006)

Zach15 I have been a Nav on Sea Kings for the last 5 years. I have to say I have enjoyed every minute of it. If you do chose to go Nav you will pretty much have to complete a tour as nav beforing OT'ing. After you get your wings you are restricted from releasing from the trade for 4 years. People do OT from Nav to Pilot and while I cannot quote the reg as a Nav or other qualified aircrew you can OT to pilot with having less than V1 eye standards. I know at least three navs who went through pilot training wearing glasses.  If you have more specific questions about the trade just PM me.


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## Signalman150 (12 Jul 2006)

Zach,

Regardless of how this sounds, I'm not being flip or funny.  I wanted aircrew back in 1975, and couldn't make the required med category because of my vision.  I wanted to be a pilot man, nothing else.  So, I didn't join the air force.  I became a lifetime reserve, and enjoyed what I did with inf and sigs. I became a draftsman as my civvie job.

But...............

Man, there are days I stand out in front of my office building looking up at the Hercs on final into Edmonton Municipal airport.  And as I watch them rumble past, I think to myself  "I wish I was a Nav on that Herc instead of a friggin' draftsman sitting in a friggin' office."

For what it's worth.


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## WannaBeFlyer (12 Jul 2006)

Signalman150 said:
			
		

> Zach,
> 
> Regardless of how this sounds, I'm not being flip or funny.  I wanted aircrew back in 1975, and couldn't make the required med category because of my vision.  I wanted to be a pilot man, nothing else.  So, I didn't join the air force.  I became a lifetime reserve, and enjoyed what I did with inf and sigs. I became a draftsman as my civvie job.
> 
> ...



Well said Signalman! I remember thinking something similar a couple of weeks ago. I crawled out of my cubicle to take 15 and to my delight the Snowbirds did a low pass over parliament (which also meant my work) complete with smoke on.  They were so low you could see the red buckets through the canopy as they turned. Man the rest of that day was long  :-\

Good luck Zach!


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## Zach15 (16 Jul 2006)

Thanks guys for the encouragement.

     I've been talking to my ULO and my optomotrist lately.. and my eye doctor is saying nothing is wrong with my eyes so there should not be anything to worry about. On the forces side of things they are saying the problem came from when I saw an opthamlogist at aircrew, which doesn't make sense because no vision tests were done at aircrew selection ( except color and a test to see if I had lasik.)  So basically I need to wait until I get off this course to find out exactly what the problem is. For now there is some hope though.

           And Tacco, I will defenetly be sending you a message in a couple weeks, when Im off course, to talk about the airnav trade.

                                     Cheers all. One more week of IAP to go!

                                               - Zach


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## airforcedave (22 Jul 2006)

I appologize for bringing back a 2 week old topic but I just wanted to elaborate on Aesop's point to perhaps  bring some more light into the DRDC phase and how it contributes to catergory changes.

He is absolutely correct when he says DRDC must approve all medical categories for aircrew.  It's called the Central Medical Board and as far as I'm aware, all aircrew medicals pass through this office.  No matter where you did your aircrew medical it gets sent here for final approval.  If there is any ambiguity about your medical fitness for aircrew duty, your file will get sent to DRDC and a flight surgeon, who is on staff will go through it.  

In specific regards to vision, he typically will send your file to the opthomologist, who is on contract with DND, for a consult regarding your eye sight.  So your CFRC could do your medical, send you to Trenton, pass Trenton and DRDC could still find problems with your vision.  Although it is odd that you get this news now because after passing Trenton, you go to DRDC right away and they figure out if you are fit for aircrew relatively quickly.  However, in agreement with Aesop, that it could be this process of consultations thats brought about a change in category.  It could be that you were a real borderline case and they were thinking of ways to get your through but in the the end couldn't do it, which happens from time to time.  The staff there are really exprienced and really do try their best for the borderline people to try to get them by, but in the end it's safety first.

Also don't worry too much about having a business degree and not using it currently.  I have a undergrad business degree and I'm an AEC.  I definately wouldn't trade it for log even if it means my degree sits on the sidelines for a bit.  You really can't be OJT in Comox, now can you.   ;D   I'll PM you if your really worried about using your business degree.  Most of my friends are in industry and I can give you the reality of that world.  

Hope this post has been somewhat useful to someone.

DC


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## Zach15 (23 Jul 2006)

Thanks a bunch. That post was very helpful.

     The situation is still unresolved as of right now. I get home this weekend though so hopefully I  will find out all the details in the next week or so. I still don't have a plan set in stone.

                     Zach


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## HiredGoon10 (23 Jul 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Well... if you're in the military so you can get out and have a good civilian career...  you're in for the wrong reason.



Now I say this with all due respect, I realize I'm new and at the moment not in high standing with the admin. of this forum.

I've been accepted into the army and am slated to begin training this September. My main purpose for joining has always been to gain more life experience in order to become a better candidate for civilian law enforcement. I've been honest about that fact with everyone including my interviewer (for the military) and have recieved nothing but positive support from both the military and law enforcement sides. 

My mindset may not be the best way to approach a new career but civilian law enforcement is the goal I've set for myself and if serving in the military is going to help me achieve that, well then that's what I'll do. The fact that I'm serving my country in the process is a very welcome benefit. 

HG10


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## big bad john (23 Jul 2006)

Well, things haven't started out to well have they.  You would be surprised how small the Military is and how many in the military are on this site.  People will be watching how you deal with your introduction to the warning system.  Suck it up and get on with it.  It is a learning experience like any other.  How you choose to benefit from it is your choice.  Good luck.  People have started out with much worse and done very well indeed.


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## HiredGoon10 (24 Jul 2006)

big bad john said:
			
		

> Well, things haven't started out to well have they.



No they haven't really. It was the result of my poor search of the forum rules regarding multiple accounts. My fault, live and learn.


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