# Winter Warfare



## Jagd (30 May 2005)

Hey, I was in the topic on army courses and I was wondering if there is anyone out there that can help me out. Where can I find information on the Winter Warfare courses?


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## Standards (30 May 2005)

Not too sure what you are looking for, but I will give it a shot.  The Winter Warfare qualification can be received in two ways.  Either complete the Winter Warfare course (AGLW) in 5 days or complete the SQ course including the winter warfare supplemental material.  Essentially this is a winter warfare course tacked on to the SQ.  

The course can be run pretty much anywhere as the only requirements are snow and cold (what part of Canada doesn't that apply to for a few months of the year - other than Victoria).

There is also an Advanced Winter warfare Course run out of Wainwright once each year.  It is 43 days long and includes a long ex in the arctic.  Prerequisites are Basic Winter Warfare, MCpl and a medical showing you haven't previously had frostbite.


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## Jagd (3 Jun 2005)

Thanks for the help. If anybody else can think of anything offhand or even any site that might help i'd appreciate it.


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## Sh0rtbUs (3 Jun 2005)

Could someone elaborate on the reasons prior frostbite is a concern?


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## Blakey (5 Jun 2005)

All things Basic Winter Warfare (AGLW) http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/38cbg_arsd/CD/bww/QS/WinterWarfareBasic.doc
[Edit] Example Course Report http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/38cbg_arsd/CD/CourseReports/BWW.doc [/Edit]


> Could someone elaborate on the reasons prior frostbite is a concern?


Missed that one.
Once you get frostbite, you become more susceptible to get get it next time you are in that enviorment. Im sure our Medic members could elaborate more.   

As well, all you folks who travel to WATC for your corses can get all your information here. IE, joining intructions ect...
http://www.army.dnd.ca/watc/joininstr/courses_e.htm


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## Da_man (7 Jun 2005)

Winter warfare?  Freezing your ass off, setting your 10 man tent on fire... good times.


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## JBP (22 Jun 2005)

Standards said:
			
		

> Not too sure what you are looking for, but I will give it a shot.  The Winter Warfare qualification can be received in two ways.  Either complete the Winter Warfare course (AGLW) in 5 days or complete the SQ course including the winter warfare supplemental material.  Essentially this is a winter warfare course tacked on to the SQ.
> 
> The course can be run pretty much anywhere as the only requirements are snow and cold (what part of Canada doesn't that apply to for a few months of the year - other than Victoria).
> 
> There is also an Advanced Winter warfare Course run out of Wainwright once each year.  It is 43 days long and includes a long ex in the arctic.  Prerequisites are Basic Winter Warfare, MCpl and a medical showing you haven't previously had frostbite.



Can a reservist take this course also? I've always wanted to become very well rounded and eventually wanted Desert warfare+jungle etc.. But soon realised that is almost nigh impossible, so I might as well plan for the future and what I CAN get! Once I'm a MCpl about 4-5yrs down the road I hope... I know many courses are reg force and not reserve though......


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## Standards (24 Jun 2005)

Many Reserve units/brigades run the Basic Winter Warfare so that should not be difficult to get.  The Advanced Winter Warfare has a few positions allocated to Reserves, so it is possible to get on it but difficult due to the competition (keep in mind its only run once per year).

Jungle and Desert Warfare are typically only done as an exchange with a foreign military or as part of the preparation for a specific deployment.  Therefore they are both fairly rare even for Reg Force personnel.


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## JBP (27 Jun 2005)

Standards said:
			
		

> Many Reserve units/brigades run the Basic Winter Warfare so that should not be difficult to get.  The Advanced Winter Warfare has a few positions allocated to Reserves, so it is possible to get on it but difficult due to the competition (keep in mind its only run once per year).
> 
> Jungle and Desert Warfare are typically only done as an exchange with a foreign military or as part of the preparation for a specific deployment.  Therefore they are both fairly rare even for Reg Force personnel.



Thanks for the info, I'll keep my eyes peeled when I come back from the summer in Sept for the next courses availible, I would imagine 31 CBG has that running. 

Joe


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## Infanteer (27 Jun 2005)

I got winter warfare - fun stuff.  We did it with the Brits and the Course Officer wanted us to do a water crossing at -40.  Lucky for us the stream froze over.

"PULL POLE"!!!


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## oittoi (29 Jun 2005)

Hope it's not too irrelevant to this topic, but is winter warfare and mountain warfare different stuff?  Some people told me winter warfare is basically fighting in the mountain during cold weather and mountain warfare covers both winter warfare AND fighting in rugged terrain.  Any ideas?  I'm interested in mountain warfare (fan of German Gebirgsjaeger stuff... and also armoured) and wondering whether there's training like that in CF ???


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## Standards (30 Jun 2005)

Yes, Winter Warfare and Basic Mountain Operations are two separate courses.

The Basic Mountain Ops course (AGLY) is 7 days long.  Student prerequisites include QL 3 (DP 1 completed, includes BMQ, SQ and trades training), current first aid, passes physical fitness test and medically fit.  The course is run at unit level, but since the instructors are to be qualified Advanced Mountain Operations, few units (outside of Reg F infantry) have the required personnel.


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## Dirt Digger (30 Jun 2005)

Standards said:
			
		

> Jungle and Desert Warfare are typically only done as an exchange with a foreign military or as part of the preparation for a specific deployment.   Therefore they are both fairly rare even for Reg Force personnel.



All the jungle and desert courses I've seen are done through foreign military courses.  SERE instructors at CFSSAT have the option of taking them after they complete their SERE indoc training (Cdn SERE and a foreign SERE course), along with a few other high-speed courses.

As they are the rare "one-of" type courses, I'm too low on the priority list to swing one (instructors first).  Alas...we send guys on a jungle course in Australia


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## 392 (30 Jun 2005)

oittoi said:
			
		

> Some people told me winter warfare is basically fighting in the mountain during cold weather and mountain warfare covers both winter warfare AND fighting in rugged terrain.



I think those "people" need to either get a schmick of what they're talking about or stop talking....


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## 392 (30 Jun 2005)

Dirt Digger said:
			
		

> All the jungle and desert courses I've seen are done through foreign military courses.



We sent a field troop down to Panama to do the JW course in 96 or 97. That was supposed to be the "beginning" of a multitude of "light" courses for the unit, but as with a lot of other ideas, that went out the door when the CO at the time left....


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## GO!!! (30 Jun 2005)

Standards - BMO is only 7 trg days? 

I ask because my unit seems to run them from anwhere from 10-15 trg days - is this the unit extending the course, or has the course content changed a great deal in the last 3-5 yrs?

Thanx


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## oittoi (30 Jun 2005)

hey, thanks alot!
Do you know if any reserve unit in Toronto runs mountain warfare course? And is MW only infantry thing, or can armoured personnels also apply for the course if interested??


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## Standards (30 Jun 2005)

> We sent a field troop down to Panama to do the JW course in 96 or 97.



I was a Sect Comd with 4 Tp, 2 CER in Nov/Dec 96 when we went with B Coy, 41st Engr Bn (from 10 Mtn Div, Ft Drum) to Ft Sherman, Panama (the Jungle Operations Training Center).  It was an interesting learning experience - you just don't find too much jungle in Canada.



> Standards - BMO is only 7 trg days?



That's what the TP states.  If your unit is taking longer than they are adding in extra material (or CPC has changed things - historically they aren't real good at sharing info).



> Do you know if any reserve unit in Toronto runs mountain warfare course? And is MW only infantry thing, or can armoured personnel also apply for the course if interested??



I don't know if any Toronto units are run BMO as I am LFWA.  Pers from all trades can take the course, but most commonly infantry will get it.  This is due their having more requirement and typically the infantry unit is providing all the instructors and running the course, therefore they get the majority of the positions.


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## Vigilant (5 Jul 2005)

Anybody can take it, it was covered in a thread several years ago. QOR might be running one next year (rumour from a Sgt.), but who knows.

If you're really interested there is plenty of mountain training civvy side. I went mountain climbing in BC last year and it was awesome. Something I learned is how most countries in the world have some sort of mountain range and how crucial it is to be able to move it that terrain. It's not very hard, it just takes practice (like rappelling).

To keep this post on topic, my unit runs a yearly winter warfare refresher every year and I'm sure most units do as well.


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## JBP (17 Jul 2005)

Say, anyone ever hear of some even called "Northern Drive" or something like this? My Section Cmdr was mentioning it, saying it's like a 10 day crse up in the artic circle. Also said he wouldn't do it ever in his life! 

Just wondering if anyone has done this little adventure or been in the artic circle for any length of time?

Joe


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## GO!!! (17 Jul 2005)

The excursions above the arctic circle are typically known as SOVOPS (sovereignty operations) or AWW (advanced winter warfare). 

Both are almost always longer than 10 days.


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## JBP (26 Sep 2005)

Interesting... I found out about the sovereignty patrol for this year. Sometime in Feb of 2006, slightly longer than 3 weeks. They wanted a couple volunteers if possible but said they'd be happy with one... Me and one other guy (friend of mine through BMQ+SQ+BIQ etc...) are the only one's to have volunteered....  No info as of yet or if we've even got on it!

Anyone have any tips for me about this sort of thing? All I keep hearing is horror stories... About 2 soldiers getting lost in a blizzard last year and almost being eaten by polar bears! Also, anyone else going/volunteering??? C'mon! I hate the cold and I'm going! Face your fears, live you're dreams! It's partially why we're here right?


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## Gasmonkey (4 Oct 2005)

operation boreal warrior, January 10-26, someplace called _____ lake in iqualut or nunavut, for reserves, not sure about reg forces, I wanted to go, but I would miss the last 12 days before exams and i need a good mark. THIS WILL GET YOU WINTER WARFARE QUALIFIED! (most likely basic level)


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## rogi (8 Oct 2005)

This is the link to Ex Boreal Warrior website that has been published by members of 32 cbg public affairs department. It contains the Ex overview.  It also provides additional information such as: "ARTIC AND SUB-ARTIC OPERATIONS" pam, which is under doctrine.

http://www.army.dnd.ca/32cbg_hq/2005/BorealWarrior/Boreal%20Warrior/BW06_home.html


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## qor556 (8 Oct 2005)

Looks good, I'm in. Has anyone had any experience with Exs in the Arctic? What has been done in previous years?


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## JBP (8 Oct 2005)

Crap... I didn't get the tasking! At the last minute when they asked for any final names for it, about 10 people put thier hands up. A bunch of MCpl's Cpl's and other Pte's.... Crap. At first it was only me and 1 other guy who had our names in! O-well, next year! I'll go :crybaby: now... 

So in anycase, have fun to those folks who are going! Can't wait to hear you're stories when your back! Also don't forget to bring a camera.... Will it freeze???


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## Old Ranger (8 Oct 2005)

Anyone remember when the Jamacains sent some boys up for Winter Training?
(This would be many many years ago)

Heard they borrowed Can Kit, but still froze in place. 
Had to be carried out in the position they were found because they locked up.


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## George Wallace (8 Oct 2005)

Yes.  FNs weren't only from Jamaica.  They came from Kenya, Nigeria, Belize, and several other nations to do Officer Trg.  They would arrive in Gagetown and be issued Parkas right away.  Even in September and October, it was too cold for them.  They were deathly afraid of the dark and the idea of "Snow Snakes" terrified them.


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## Old Ranger (9 Oct 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> They were deathly afraid of the dark and the idea of "Snow Snakes" terrified them.



Ahh....Snow Snakes; George you weren't on part of that "eradication" mission as well, were you?

That's the only reason I know about them. ;D


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