# Proper footwear for DEU's?



## Bonko (23 Dec 2009)

Attending a New Year's Levee and it's supposed to be 1A's and just looking through my footwear I was issued and I only see Oxford's isn't the standard army footwear for DEU's supposed to be those ankle boots? I'm not to sure on matter can anyone shed some light on the situation?


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## George Wallace (23 Dec 2009)

Well Gnr.  

Ankle boots would be proper footwear for you to wear with 1A.


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## Occam (23 Dec 2009)

For NCMs, outside of parades where the footwear is specified, I always thought that oxfords and ankle boots were at the discretion of the member?


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## George Wallace (23 Dec 2009)

In most units, Oxfords were usually reserved for officers, and taboo for NCMs to wear, until they reached the more senior ranks (MWO and CWO).  

Highland Regiments are another story, and Oxfords would be the norm.  The OPs profile lists them as being a Gnr, so one would defer to what is the norm for those in the Artillery.


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## Bonko (24 Dec 2009)

Just making sure since it's my father's(Air Force) New Year's Levee and his CWO will be inspecting and I don't want to be making the old man look bad since the only footwear I was issued reserve side were these oxfords :S Thanks for the posts.


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## Otis (24 Dec 2009)

Keeping in mind that I am Navy and there may be Army-specific customs that I am unaware of, but I AM a Supply Tech (maybe Vern can correct me with more Army-specific advice) ...

In my experience, in general, Jr NCM's usually wear Ankle boots with their 1A's and Snr NCO's and officers wear Oxford's, but either is correct (in 18 years, I have only ever seen Officers dressed down for wearing Ankle boots with 1A's)


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## armyvern (24 Dec 2009)

Bonko,

While parading, Army NCMs customarily wear ankle boots with 1As & Officers wear their oxfords.  However, both are officially 'authorized' for wear with 1As (that's why you get issued them). This is why Orders for an Army parade will normally specificly state under "Dress: "DEU 1As with ankle boots for NCMs, DEU 1As with Oxfords for Officers". Either are acceptable for wear to the New Years Levee if the "Dress" states only "DEU 1As" (that leaves you a choice) - and I'd personally recommend the oxfords because:

1) They're much more comfortable; &
2) You gotta wear 'em when you get the rare chance to!!

Merry Christmas!!


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## Eye In The Sky (24 Dec 2009)

Otis said:
			
		

> Keeping in mind that I am Navy and there may be Army-specific customs that I am unaware of, but I AM a Supply Tech (maybe Vern can correct me with more Army-specific advice) ...
> 
> In my experience, in general, Jr NCM's usually wear Ankle boots with their 1A's and Snr NCO's and officers  wear Oxford's, but either is correct (in 18 years, I have only ever seen Officers dressed down for wearing Ankle boots with 1A's)



So...what about WOs, MWOs and CWOs?   ;D

The misuse of the terms "jnr/snr NCM" and WOs being included in the Snr NCO catagory has always irked me.


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Dec 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> So...what about WOs, MWOs and CWOs?   ;D
> 
> The misuse of the terms "jnr/snr NCM" and WOs being included in the Snr NCO catagory has always irked me.



We survived forever without the 'NCM' phrase, and everything worked fine. I still don't use the terms

Look at it the other way. It said officers. It didn't say commissioned or by warrant. 

Most parades usually find me in Patrols with quarter Wellingtons and spurs. On the odd occasion that I wear DEU it is with my oxfords. Generally, here, we require everyone up to and including Sgt to wear ankle boots. WO and up wear oxfords with DEU.


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## armyvern (25 Dec 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> So...what about WOs, MWOs and CWOs?   ;D
> 
> The misuse of the terms "jnr/snr NCM" and WOs being included in the Snr NCO catagory has always irked me.



No, I meant NCMs (every rank of them ...). I'm on parade in DEU1As in my ankle boots too.    Just as my 9erD (an MWO Armd [RCD]) did for Leliefontein.

Regarding NCMS:

NCMs = all non-commissioned members (Pte/OS to CWO/CPO1);
Pte = Ptes
Jr NCO = Cpl/LS to MCpl/MS;
Snr NCO = Sgt / PO2; &
WOs.

I realize & understand the difference in the terms ... I indeed used the one that I intended to use. Some Armd Regts have their WOs & above wear oxfords in DEU 1As as the officers wear; rather that's a Unit thing, not an Army thing.


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## Spanky (25 Dec 2009)

Well, if Bonko only has oxfords and it *is* an Air Force Levee  ;D, it's all a moot point for him.  
Bonko, enjoy the festivities!


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## NL_engineer (25 Dec 2009)

Just bring coffee, my AF friends say that gets them out of any dress problem  ;D (usually said when making army jokes  )


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## Bonko (27 Dec 2009)

Thanks all for the input! I wish reserves taught all of this crap! Merry belated xmas everyone and a happy new year!


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Dec 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> No, I meant NCMs (every rank of them ...). I'm on parade in DEU1As in my ankle boots too.    Just as my 9erD (an MWO Armd [RCD]) did for Leliefontein.
> 
> Regarding NCMS:
> 
> ...



AV,

I know you know those ;D my post was just a little (friendly) dig at OTIS for the "Snr NCOs and Officers" line.   >


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## armyvern (28 Dec 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> AV,
> 
> I know you know those ;D my post was just a little (friendly) dig at OTIS for the "Snr NCOs and Officers" line.   >



I know that you are evil just like me. Reminds me of the time that a certain CO had a "mandatory briefing for all Snr NCOs", so us WOs & above sent only the Sgts (even realizing he had intended for us all to be there) ... it didn't go over well, but after multitudes of attempts by "us" to address the improper addressing "of us" by the CoC --- the problem with terminolgy and "improper addressing" seemed to disappear shortly thereafter.  >

It's a situation that would be akin to me constantly referring to a Captain as a "Senior Officer". Sorry Technoviking.  >


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## Otis (17 Jan 2010)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> AV,
> 
> I know you know those ;D my post was just a little (friendly) dig at OTIS for the "Snr NCOs and Officers" line.   >



And this is me ignoring the bunch of you ...


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## armyvern (18 Jan 2010)

Otis said:
			
		

> And this is me ignoring the bunch of you ...



What if I promised to give you some new shoes?  ;D


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## Otis (18 Jan 2010)

la la LA la ... not listening!


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## armyvern (18 Jan 2010)

Otis said:
			
		

> la la LA la ... not listening!



I already issued them to your docs today ... when you get back to the sup world - you'll have to write them off!!  >


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## Otis (19 Jan 2010)

Great, I can chalk them up with the Size 18, Air Force blue, FEMALE heavy weather overcoat that is ALSO somehow on my clothing docs ... did I mention that according to the history it was issued to me while I was serving on a ship overseas? DAMN I'm good! To rabbit kit I'm in NO way entitled to from half a world away ... I am Bin Rat hear me roar!

Now back to your previously scheduled ignoring ...


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## armyvern (19 Jan 2010)

Otis said:
			
		

> Great, I can chalk them up with the Size 18, Air Force blue, FEMALE heavy weather overcoat that is ALSO somehow on my clothing docs ... did I mention that according to the history it was issued to me while I was serving on a ship overseas? DAMN I'm good! To rabbit kit I'm in NO way entitled to from half a world away ... I am Bin Rat hear me roar!
> 
> Now back to your previously scheduled ignoring ...



Size 18!! You're huge (for a chick!). I once moved a nice little Osh-Kosh Firetruck from Petawawa to Trenton. They came looking for it while I was in Syria ... LOL - everyone knew where the actual fire-truck was sitting, but no-one could find it virtually. It was Me!! Seems I had entered my service number vice the SCA into the "requested by" block and so it ended up on my clothing docs. At that time though, a whole lot of Suppies over in ASF were also, apparently, building hercs in their backyards given the sheer volume of herc spares on sup techs clothing docs. Ahhhh, the benefits of steam-rolling out a new system without allowing the techs using it to benefit from any kind of substantial trg on it.  : 

I do love today's gen of suppies who actually like the CFSS and one no longer hear's about how much it sucks from today's intake ... I still believe that's because they never enjoyed or had the benefit of ever using the old system and thus have zero real clue about just how user-intensive and ineffecient this one actually is!

At least the overcoat is DEU --- so you don't have to return it on release.  8)


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## Otis (19 Jan 2010)

Yeah, that happened a LOT during the early days of MIMS ... I was on the West Coast for the first roll-out, but luckily I was on a ship with the deployed version, so there wasn't a whole lot of places for stuff to 'disappear' to.

I think we have effectively hijacked this thread ... maybe it should be brought back on topic or closed?


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## Conan the Librarian (10 Nov 2012)

_Quote "
No, I meant NCMs (every rank of them ...). I'm on parade in DEU1As in my ankle boots too.    Just as my 9erD (an MWO Armd [RCD]) did for Leliefontein.

Regarding NCMS:

NCMs = all non-commissioned members (Pte/OS to CWO/CPO1);
Pte = Ptes
Jr NCO = Cpl/LS to MCpl/MS;
Snr NCO = Sgt / PO2; &
WOs.

I realize & understand the difference in the terms ... I indeed used the one that I intended to use. Some Armd Regts have their WOs & above wear oxfords in DEU 1As as the officers wear; rather that's a Unit thing, not an Army thing. "_


I hate to play Devils Advocate here because I think we all get what you are saying. But really there are only 2 NCO ranks in the Canadian Military: Cpl and Sgt.

MCpl is an appointment and not a rank, and POs are not NCOs they are Petty Officers.  Warrants-chiefs are Warrant officers. Back then there were Staff Sgt's and colour sgt's, flight sgts, etc. etc. those were all NCOs. same thing with Lance Cpls.  Take a look at the beginning of the QR&Os and you will find it under the definition of "NCOS"

Cheers,

Conan the Librarian


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## Nfld Sapper (10 Nov 2012)

Conan the Librarian said:
			
		

> _Quote "
> No, I meant NCMs (every rank of them ...). I'm on parade in DEU1As in my ankle boots too.    Just as my 9erD (an MWO Armd [RCD]) did for Leliefontein.
> 
> Regarding NCMS:
> ...



Thanks for pointing out  the obvious there ......  :


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## Good2Golf (10 Nov 2012)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Thanks for pointing out  the obvious there ......  :



...on a post a fifth of a decade old, too.


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Nov 2012)

Conan the Librarian said:
			
		

> POs are not NCOs they are Petty Officers.



Someone forgot to put the cap back on their marker...


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## cupper (10 Nov 2012)

Maybe he should have used the yellow one instead of the blue one.

That was damn hard on the eyes. So was the quoted portion. ;D


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