# Instructor language at BMQ



## techie (29 Jun 2006)

Ive read and heard that the way that the instructors can speak to you on your bmq has been restricted a lot over the years. No swearing, no "picking" on recruits, etc. How restriced are they?


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## villecour (29 Jun 2006)

Sometimes it just depends on weather, some days are good, some bad and some worst. But after every storm we seem to remember the good weather only......
 Be the sole judge, things and words are perceived differently by people in general.
Good luck, you will find it is not that bad.


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## techie (29 Jun 2006)

oh, im not worried about it, i just dont want them to coddle us.


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## bojangles (29 Jun 2006)

Trust me..you won't be coddled!


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## KeWLKaT (1 Jul 2006)

Well since I just finished my first week of BMQ...

They yell a lot and swear but times have changed and there is no more physical tormenting (i.e. kicking your gear around, etc)

Hope that helps.

P.S. BMQ is a breeze after the 3rd day


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## Conquistador (1 Jul 2006)

> no more physical tormenting (i.e. kicking your gear around, etc)



Oh, they kick your gear around, it all depends on your staff. For example on my SQ, one MCpl practically destroyed a tent because somebody laughed, filled up buddies tac-vest pockets with sand because a pocket was open, etc. I've had other staff that would open up and place your canteen upside down in your tac-vest if it wasn't full for inspection, or knock over your cot (with detail stripped weapon) if you squirmed during inspection (sometimes into the canteen water that was spilled for it not being full).



> P.S. BMQ is a breeze after the 3rd day


Seeing as you're only on your first week of BMQ, I would sit tight and wait, you're instructors will start giving you cock like that eventually. If you don't get it there, wait until SQ/DP1.


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## KeWLKaT (1 Jul 2006)

I was told by my MCpl that physical abuse was no longer permitted in the CF which is why he wasn't doing anything of the sort.

Also, once you get used to it, it is a breeze, and this I have been told by not only my section MCpl and Cpl, but also our Lieutenant and Captain a few times.


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## brihard (1 Jul 2006)

Phsycial abuse would refer to physical assualts upon your person. I'm not familiar of a regulation that prohibits tossing your room, upending kit or generally creating a mess as a way of showing irritation at your turnout on inspection. That being said, I may simply be ignorant of a rule stating exactly that.

You will find that much is dependant upon the actual personality of your instructor. I've always personally been more intimidated by those who only need to use words in a low voice to make their displeasure clear. The instructors I've had who were screamers, or who tended to toss kitt around were often the same ones who in retrospect after a few years in seem to have been perhaps of less certain quality as leaders- not incompetent, don't get me wrong, but not the 'natural leader' type you hope to work under. That's not a hard and fast rule by any means, but in my (admittedly still limited) experience, the most confident and effective instructors don't need to pull any of those games to get the troops to shape up.

Now and then you'll get an instructor who seems bafflingly bipolar. The unpredictable ones can be the worst. Just remember that it's all a game that you play by their rules, and that none of it is personal. Keep that in mind and you'll get through just fine. I've never found anything on course that genuinely necessitates getting stressed out, beyond the normal physical and mental fatigue and irritation at petty injustices.


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## aesop081 (1 Jul 2006)

KeWLKaT said:
			
		

> I was told by my MCpl that physical abuse was no longer permitted in the CF which is why he wasn't doing anything of the sort.



Destroying you gear is not physical abuse.......



> Also, once you get used to it, it is a breeze, and this I have been told by not only my section MCpl and Cpl, but also our Lieutenant and Captain a few times.



The few days you have in the military give you just a little more than zero credibility.  One day when you are all grown up, you will be able to tell people if it was a breeze or not.

One that note good luck on BMQ and any subsequent training you go on.


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## KeWLKaT (2 Jul 2006)

Well, thanks for the good luck note I guess and you're right, I have no credibility, but everybody starts somewhere, right? At least I'm giving positive advice rather than negative thoughts  8)


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## Hoover (2 Jul 2006)

Yes, they can still toss your kit around. Just as an example, if your bed isn't to standard, they will flip it and everything ontop of it, including field stripped C7 and the whole lot. Think of it this way, some young flat faced no hook private like myself, am I going to be more motivated if they don't touch my faults or if I they throw my stuff and force me to fix them? No names, no pack drill but I have been places where for example they tell you your DEU shirts need more work, 2 days later they come by to inspect again, you've done no work and they tell you you have outstanding DEU shirts! Happened on more than one occasion to by honest.. 

Don't doubt the platoon staff, pretty much all of them have a rulebook stuck up their arse from the amount of TI they have. They know what they can and cannot do, they also know what you can and cannot do, and will be along shortly to tell you when you break the rules.. So don't worry about petty stuff like inspections, most Sgts and MCpls only do them because some with a crown is telling them to! 

Worry around the important stuff... drill, weapons, learning to love your rucksack so it will love you back. The military is nothing like basic or SQ, once you get out of there it will become much more relaxed. Basic is just there to weed out the weak, lame and lazy.


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## Franko (2 Jul 2006)

Hoover said:
			
		

> No names, no pack drill but I have been places where for example they tell you your DEU shirts need more work, 2 days later they come by to inspect again, you've done no work and they tell you you have outstanding DEU shirts! Happened on more than one occasion to by honest..



Hmmm....noted. Obviously never were inspected by any of my peers or superiors.     :



> Don't doubt the platoon staff, pretty much all of them have a rulebook stuck up their arse from the amount of TI they have. They know what they can and cannot do, they also know what you can and cannot do, and will be along shortly to tell you when you break the rules..



Of that you can rest well assured.    




> So don't worry about petty stuff like inspections, most Sgts and MCpls only do them because some with a crown is telling them to!



Ummm no. We do it because how in the blazes are we supposed to turn a flat faced civvie into a soldier without checking on every aspect of your kit, dress and deportment?

 If we didn't...I could only guess the state of your kit and how you would perform under stress of say, oh I don't know....battle.

There is a purpose to these inspections besides screwing around with you and your coursemates. Ensuring that your kit is in good, clean. serviceable condition is the big one. 

Also ensuring that you get in the habit of paying attention to details right off the get go. How are you going to soldier if you can even grasp the basics of having a well turn out for an inspection? 

A small tear in say, oh I don't know, combat pants can turn them irreparable quickly and you are down a set in the field when all you needed to do was sew them up. A crack in your gas mask that you knew about for the past 3 weeks and here it comes.....it's a dull yellow and people are puking....and you're next because of a leaky mask that could have been replaced if you took the time....

Get the idea yet?

This stuff isn't invented to humour the DS and make their day during a coffee break. It is needed and it is also time tested.

If it works....don't change it.

If you clean your kit and find small defects it can and probably will, in a theater like Afghanistan, save your life.




> Worry around the important stuff... drill, weapons, learning to love your rucksack so it will love you back. The military is nothing like basic or SQ, once you get out of there it will become much more relaxed.



Wow....an you're the expert are ye? It never ends....and more performance is expected of you the higher you climb. 

Can't get the basics down pat? You won't last too long.....the Forces won't waste the rations on ya anymore.




> Basic is just there to weed out the weak, lame and lazy.



As is SQ, PLQ, DP2, DP3....*it never ends troops*.

Take note guys and gals. When we inspect you....it's litterally for your benefit, and not ours.

Regards


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## 17thRecceSgt (2 Jul 2006)

KeWLKaT said:
			
		

> P.S. BMQ is a breeze after the 3rd day



Didn't you just say you have only completed Week 1? 

Question then is how do you know what Week 2 is like even?

nice to see you reply, and mention they don't kick your gear around, but...don't offer advice to people in you don't have the experience maybe.  Apparantly, if you are correct, after the 3rd day, everyone can slack off and go home until Grad?

See where I am going?  YOU have 10 weeks left.  Why don't you just see if you make it first, then you can brag about how easy it is.

My 2 cents.


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## nova_flush (2 Jul 2006)

I'm with kewlkat in the BQM 0607 at St-Hyacinthe. First of, we are not part of the regular army.. it's a reserve course so the BMQ is only 4 week. What he meant is that, the first 2-3 days are the hardest since we are not used to it. All he meant is that after 3 days u start forgetting bout how it was at home and start getting used to the stress they put on u .. We're not slacking off, it's just we're starting to know what to expect better and better.


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## Nemo888 (2 Jul 2006)

BMQ was hard? I didn't get any coffee for the first THREE days, I think I need a shrink to get over it. BMQ was vaguely annoying, SQ was at least a bit of a challenge. The worse the course the sweeter the memories. 

P.S. One of my buddies on BMQ was lazy about cleaning his weapon. If you think you can get a grouping after clearing stoppages you are dreaming, he almost failed his shoot. That weapon is your life. Less time on your boots, more time on that rifle. And if someone sees you putting the muzzle in the dirt I hope they stomp on you.


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## 17thRecceSgt (2 Jul 2006)

Hoover said:
			
		

> So don't worry about petty stuff like inspections, most Sgts and MCpls only do them because some with a crown is telling them to!
> 
> Worry around the important stuff... drill, weapons, learning to love your rucksack so it will love you back. The military is nothing like basic or SQ, once you get out of there it will become much more relaxed. Basic is just there to weed out the weak, lame and lazy.



+1 (atleast) to all that Recce By Death said.  Only not so nice, and while you are in a pushup position.


Honestly, I don't get you young troops.  Nothing is hard eh?  BMQ is a joke. Blah blah blah.

Offering all of your advice on here, like you got some great experience.  Telling new(er) people 3 days into Basic and its a joke. Christ.

I HONESTLY have issued gitch's (thats underwear) that have more T.I. than all of you "BMQ Commandos" put together, I did Cornwallis in '89 (how old were YOU in July 1989 when I was doing my Basic??) and I never say the crap you troops do about BMQ.  I bet if I talked to your Course Staff, or took a look at your Weekly Assessments or Course Report, I wouldn't see "Pte Bloggins, after 3 days, knows it all and is ready to assume the duties of Company Sgt-Major.

There are folks on this forum that have been soldiering since before you were alive.  Those are the ones with "the crowns" and such that can and do have real world advice, or like the troops that have been operational before, and no, your BMQ field ex is NOT operational.

If your expertise comes from watching Band of Brothers, or you don't have a 2nd chevron up, you should STFU and listen to NCO's like Recce By Death.  Someone who has been there, done that, has the T shirt, and doesn't need to brag about it.

Hoover, basic is not there to just weed out the weak.  Moreover, define weak.  Mentally?  Physically?  What part of the course were you the weak link in?  Sewing?  Ironing?  Modesty?

Basic training is there to begin the transition between civilian and military life.  To see if you are suited to the military, and the military to you.  To begin teaching you attention to detail, physical and mental constitution, teamwork, loyalty, service and selflessness, and many more things.  If you have already completed it, you should know that.  Perhaps you just thought it was about petty things like your rucksack and crap like that.

Know your role.  Stay in your lane.


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## KeWLKaT (2 Jul 2006)

I think you guys are over reacting just a tad bit. All I am doing is giving words of encouragement for people to read. It seems that you are striving for keeping the image that BMQ is hard and will destroy not only the PVT that just got enrolled, but also the entire universe around him... It's not the case... Military is hard, not for everyone, but is not that unattainable ideal that society is trying to give to it. Even our instructors at BMQ0607 at St-Hyacinthe are telling us the exact same thing to keep us up, with our Lieutenant himself saying that most of the recruits still present during his speach will most probably succeed.

All I was saying is that the ''cultural shock'' as they say is on the first few days, you get used to it, and it becomes easier for one in the MENTAL way. The physical training and the theory comes in big quantities, you have to run, push up, study, drill, a LOT. Though, it's much more ''takeable'' after, say, your 4th or 5th day, than on the first day. That's what I'm saying. By a ''breeze'' I wasn't just implying that it was completely easy and a waste of time. It has to be understood that I was just referring to the schedule itself and the way of life, after you understand and assimilate the routine, you can start learning and finding it somewhat fun. You have to learn to read between the lines.


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## 17thRecceSgt (2 Jul 2006)

KeWLKaT said:
			
		

> It seems that you are striving for keeping the image that BMQ is hard and will destroy not only the PVT that just got enrolled, but also the entire universe around him... It's not the case...



Never said that.  And by the way, its Pte, not PVT.  "A" for effort though.



> Military is hard, not for everyone, but is not that unattainable ideal that society is trying to give to it.



I am not society, and I never, nor did Recce By Death, say it was unattainable.  Its Basic Training, not the friggin' Ranger course or Patrol Pathfinder course, or SAR Tech or something.  BUT its not " a breeze " like you were saying after 3 whole days on course.



> All I was saying is that the ''cultural shock'' as they say is on the first few days, you get used to it, and it becomes easier for one in the MENTAL way. The physical training and the theory comes in big quantities, you have to run, push up, study, drill, a LOT. Though, it's much more ''takeable'' after, say, your 4th or 5th day, than on the first day. That's what I'm saying. By a ''breeze'' I wasn't just implying that it was completely easy and a waste of time. It has to be understood that I was just referring to the schedule itself and the way of life, after you understand and assimilate the routine, you can start learning and finding it somewhat fun.



Really?  Wow.  Thanks for clearing up stuff like that.   :



> You have to learn to read between the lines.



Or...perhaps you need to post clearly, with a better desciption of your meaning.  My crystal ball is broken, and people with no military time at all with get bad information from your posts.  

Good luck with your training, in all seriousness, but, you need to realize what you say on here can and/or will be taken literally by some people.  Then when they get to BMQ and AREN'T finding it that easy after Day 4...get it?

Good.


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## Hoover (2 Jul 2006)

OK, listen in for a second, I wasn't going for the wind up but apparently that is what I got. Yes, basic was hard for some people. SQ even harder for others. I found them both very easy and probably got the most COCK of the course. Bragging... no, it's just a fact of life. I've completed the whole course.. the reason it's easy, because there is no reprecussions, if you screw up all you get is a written warning, there is no physical punishment (rucksack runs, etc). Everyone has a different acceptance for harshness, for pain, for punishment, but that is what keeps troops motivated to do better, is the consequences.


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## KeWLKaT (2 Jul 2006)

Alright, I guess I got myself ''cleared up'' enough so I won't have to continue this argument. I don't like to stir crap around therefore I will stop right there.

Cheers


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## Franko (2 Jul 2006)

Hoover said:
			
		

> OK, listen in for a second, I wasn't going for the wind up but apparently that is what I got. Yes, basic was hard for some people. SQ even harder for others. I found them both very easy and probably got the most **** of the course. Bragging... no, it's just a fact of life.  Everyone has a different acceptance for harshness, for pain, for punishment, but that is what keeps troops motivated to do better, is the consequences.



Well done for you on completing it. Now you have the *basic soldiering skills* to not get yourself or others killed. Now you begin your real training in the following years.



> I've completed the whole course.. the reason it's easy, because there is no repercussions, if you screw up all you get is a written warning, there is no physical punishment (rucksack runs, etc).



No repercussions eh? How about enough of the red chits and you're punted? Or how about failing a PO twice and you're punted? Or how about attitude and you're punted.

Get the idea yet troops? We teach, you absorb....albeit from a fire hose. 

Can't do it? Re-course...or kicked out period. 

Now onto physical punishment     :

Not tolerated....period. 

However.....extra PT with FFO and ruck after supper can be arranged to get you ready for the field portion    

These courses aren't there for you to freak out over. We will teach you the fundamentals and show you the way....you still have to walk the path.

Oh...and just so we're clear.....I'm not carrying anyone whilst walking the path either.

Regards


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## SupersonicMax (2 Jul 2006)

Stop that kiddy fight there please!  If some people think any course is easy, good for them!  What's wrong with that?  I though BOTC was easy enough and no instructor never told me I was stupid for that or tried to argue with me!  

Doesn't the military teaches communication skills as well?   

Max


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## Sig_Des (2 Jul 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Doesn't the military teaches communication skills as well?



It does. It also teaches when someone should shut up and listen when someone who knows better or has seen more is talking.

Did I find BMQ to be hard? Portions of it. Other parts, not so much. That's not what it's about. It's about taking people from different backgrounds, throwing them all in the pot, and having them come out as soldiers.

It's about the common denominator. Some find it hard, some don't. Some like it, some don't. By saying it's easy, you're trivializing it for everyone else.

Everyone has to admit, it is a life-changing experience. Even if you don't see it yourself, it changes you in a manner of ways. Look at it as the first challenge in a new life.

What you get from it, is up to you.


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## SupersonicMax (2 Jul 2006)

I think imputs from everyone is usefull.  It gives the guy (techie) a better idea of what to expect from different people (which is good don't you think?).  Now, to what advices apply to him, that's up to him.  The best qualified person to tell you how a course is hard is the person who is doing it right now.  Not the instructor!

Max


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## Springroll (2 Jul 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> It gives the guy (techie) a better idea of what to expect from different people (which is good don't you think?).  Now, to what advices apply to him, that's up to him.  The best qualified person to tell you how a course is hard is the person who is doing it right now.  Not the instructor!
> 
> Max



If I recall, techie is on my reg force BMQ. 
The information coming from a reservist is inaccurate to our situation.
He has 4 weeks of training, we have 11. 
Now, if there is someone out there who did reg force BMQ recently, then that would be the better person to listen too.

Regardless, techie's question was answered, so there is really no need to keep fighting, is there?


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## George Wallace (2 Jul 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I though BOTC was easy enough and no instructor never told  me I was stupid for that or tried to argue with me!
> 
> Doesn't the military teaches communication skills as well?
> 
> Max



The military does teach communication skills.  I would suggest you pay attention to them.  Your statement above tells us that all your instructors told you you were stupid.  It is that "Double Negative" thing you should have learned back in Grade three.   ;D


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## Franko (2 Jul 2006)

Arrgghhh.....beat me to it again George    

But in all seriousness though....courses differ from each other, depending on what unit is instructing, composition of it as well.

If you found it easy, great. 

I hope you aided your coursemates who were struggling during it....like helping them get their kit sorted out, studying, cleaning weapons and station jobs etc.

There is more to a course than just going through the motions and passing. A sort of weird bond happens...which is a pleasant experience for most.

When I went through my Basic and TQ2 (a couple of eons ago) we had a guy who breezed through it all....and didn't lift a finger to help anyone unless it somehow made him look better to the DS. It was noted by everyone on the course....and is still thrown in his face on a monthly basis by his peers.

Make the most of your course troops and try to enjoy it. It's not a cake-walk....but you will have fun at times.

Regards


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## SupersonicMax (2 Jul 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The military does teach communication skills.  I would suggest you pay attention to them.  Your statement above tells us that all your instructors told you you were stupid.  It is that "Double Negative" thing you should have learned back in Grade three.   ;D



As previously mentionned in a different post, my FOL isn't English.  I make my best to write in English so don't expect it to be perfect.  You still got the point of my message I guess.

Max


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## George Wallace (2 Jul 2006)

It depends.  Do you want me to automatically correct in my mind what you said and in doing so stay confused or do you want me to believe what you wrote as being gospel?  In one instance I will have to assume that you are a gangbanger or a homie with no sense of the use of grammar, or in the other instance I am to believe that you are stupid.  Do you see now what good grammar, sentence structure, concise wording, etc. mean in what you say or print?  If you want to get further in the Military, and eventually give 'Orders' you will have to learn how to communicate.  Right now, not assuming anything, your statement clearly says that all your instructors called you stupid.


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## aesop081 (2 Jul 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> As previously mentionned in a different post, my FOL isn't English.  I make my best to write in English so don't expect it to be perfect.  You still got the point of my message I guess.
> 
> Max



"Achieve professional competence"......

work on your english, think of the effects and confusion a badly worded sentence can have when talking to ATC


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## 17thRecceSgt (2 Jul 2006)

All

This was never meant to be a flame war, maybe more of a "listen to people that know better". 

THINK.  There are people on these forum that will take what you say...word for word.  I quite clearly remember going thru Cornwallis, Thursday night of Week 1, when the senior course was having the Grad night.  Everything and anything those guys told us (half in the bag or better that night, coming back from the Green and Gold...) we took like gospel.  

Some of it was bad advice.  Like, for our pennant inspection, we sprayed starch on a bunch of pillow cases we ripped up (from the linen closet) and then, when we were done, thru them in the garbage.  Guess what the C.I. (Chief Instructor) of the school, and man by the name of Lt. Cmdr Townsend IIRC, found in the garbage during our pennant inspection?  Guess who gave us the idea to do that??

Folks (read "people with not lots of T.I. or experience) what you say CAN and WILL influence people.  I know this FROM PAST EXPERIENCE.  I am sure Recce By Death and George Wallace both can recount MORE and GRAVER instances of young troops with little T.I. giving advices to FNGs/recruits that they should not have.  They have been/did the real deal.  SO, when THEY talk, I STFU.  See a pattern here??

Ya, I know you don't want to listen "to these old fella's" or whatever.  Here's the thing.  Some of the folks on here have truly been there and done that, and until you have, your opinion is null and void next to theirs.  

Someday...YOU will be the "been there done that" crew, and you will know what I mean...

Just be careful what you post, and, make it clear that it is your opinion, vice a FACT or definite thing.  Is that hard??  No.

About the original topic of the post, here's my opinion...if you can't handle being yelled at, with some foul language, how will you handle combat? 

What's that old saying?  "Sticks and stones..."

Stop fighting with the folks who know.  Accept that you are new to the game.  Shut mouth.  Open ears and brain.  Its for your benefit not mine.   ;D


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## 17thRecceSgt (2 Jul 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> I think imputs from everyone is usefull.  It gives the guy (techie) a better idea of what to expect from different people (which is good don't you think?).  Now, to what advices apply to him, that's up to him.  The best qualified person to tell you how a course is hard is the person who is doing it right now.  Not the instructor!
> 
> Max



Just one question...how you ever put courses thru?  BMQ/SQ/QL3s, 4s, PCFs, PLQ, etc etc??

just curious...


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## orange.paint (2 Jul 2006)

Recce By Death said:
			
		

> Now onto physical punishment     :
> 
> Not tolerated....period.
> 
> However.....extra PT with FFO and ruck after supper can be arranged to get you ready for the field portion



And I'm the kind of young guy at the school who will GLADLY volunteer to drop by after supper to run you till you puke.I'm usually in the gym anyway.Or drinking with the boys which is bad for me anyway.

As reccebydeath said earlier your career is full of this stuff.Wait till you got a few years in and they send you on a plq,believe me it sucks. Inspections are important so you don't get to the field and realise you have 2 left hand gloves.And before you tell me your smarter,don't.We see it all the time.


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## George Wallace (2 Jul 2006)

rcac_011 said:
			
		

> As reccebydeath said earlier your career is full of this stuff.Wait till you got a few years in and they send you on a plq,believe me it sucks. Inspections are important so you don't get to the field and realise you have 2 left hand gloves.And before you tell me your smarter,don't.We see it all the time.


.......That is why in Winter Warfare Trg we teach you to tie your big mittens together with 6' of Para cord so that you look like a bunch of kindergarden kids.............but you'll never loose your mitts.  (Oh!  If you thought that was a joke; well it isn't.  Don't try and tell the SSM that he looks like a kindergarden pre-schooler either.)


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## Centurian1985 (2 Jul 2006)

Hoover said:
			
		

> Yes, they can still toss your kit around. Just as an example, if your bed isn't to standard, they will flip it and everything ontop of it, including field stripped C7 and the whole lot. Think of it this way, some young flat faced no hook private like myself, am I going to be more motivated if they don't touch my faults or if I they throw my stuff and force me to fix them? No names, no pack drill but I have been places where for example they tell you your DEU shirts need more work, 2 days later they come by to inspect again, you've done no work and they tell you you have outstanding DEU shirts! Happened on more than one occasion to by honest..
> 
> Don't doubt the platoon staff, pretty much all of them have a rulebook stuck up their arse from the amount of TI they have. They know what they can and cannot do, they also know what you can and cannot do, and will be along shortly to tell you when you break the rules.. So don't worry about petty stuff like inspections, most Sgts and MCpls only do them because some with a crown is telling them to!
> 
> Worry around the important stuff... drill, weapons, learning to love your rucksack so it will love you back. *The military is nothing like basic or SQ, once you get out of there it will become much more relaxed. *  Basic is just there to weed out the weak, lame and lazy.



As a note in reference to points above (and which has been pointed out by others but I gotta put in my 2 cents worth), the elimination of physical abuse means the instructor cant grab you by the throat and slam you against a locker, or in another variation, cant have you do pushups by yourself until you collapse from exhaustion.  There are plenty of other 'mental tortures' that get sobbed about, which should be seen as a major learning point during basic - the world isnt going to stop what its doing so it can kiss your boo-boos all better, more likely it will sneak up and kick you in the ass while you are complaining.        

However, to push on, my comment is in regard to the bolded line in the text above.

You think basic /SQ is tough and the military is much more relaxed? What army are you in?  How long have you been in?  Have you gone anywhere?  Basic and SQ is a walk in the park compared to whats waiting for you.  At the end of every day in Basic/SQ you get to crawl back into your comfy bed after the course NCO made sure you got fed.  That doesnt happen in the real world.      

And basic does not weed out the weak lame and lazy.  Basic is about finding out who can adapt to a new environment, who can follow rules even when they dont make sense (from your point of view), and who can keep a straight face when being screamed at by some higher up for something that you think is unimportant.  These are 'basic' military skills, flexibility and masking your true thoughts.  Be assured the 'weak' pass the minimum standards, soldiers continued to get 'lamed' through performance of duties, and the 'lazy' will continue to be pushed in to meet recruiting quotas. 

Of note, I hate hearing that term 'weak, lame and lazy' -  I know too many soldiers who were injured in the performance of their duties, and to have them lumped in with your 'weak and lazy' is a slap in the face to their dedication and willingness to accept physical damage in order to get the job done.  You better hope to god you never say that term in reference to one of our troops injured overseas, at least in my hearing range.


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## Centurian1985 (2 Jul 2006)

Hoover said:
			
		

> OK, listen in for a second, I wasn't going for the wind up but apparently that is what I got. Yes, basic was hard for some people. SQ even harder for others. I found them both very easy and probably got the most **** of the course. Bragging... no, it's just a fact of life. I've completed the whole course.. the reason it's easy, because there is no reprecussions, if you screw up all you get is a written warning, there is no physical punishment (rucksack runs, etc). Everyone has a different acceptance for harshness, for pain, for punishment, but that is what keeps troops motivated to do better, is the consequences.



As an interpretation for you, it only sounds like you 'stayed under the radar'.  This is not a good career profile.

Some people are good at not getting noticed, average joe's with average marks, blending into a crowd, neither leading nor following, not drawing attention.  The infamous 'gray man' you hear about. Which in itself is not a good way to describe your progress.  In this army the people who attract the most attention are the worst AND the best.  It doesnt mean the course is a breeze, it only means you didnt do anything good enough or bad enough to attract attention.


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## SupersonicMax (2 Jul 2006)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> "Achieve professional competence"......
> 
> work on your english, think of the effects and confusion a badly worded sentence can have when talking to ATC



That's one of the reason I'm in Winnipeg right now instead of Bagotville.  To work on my English.  So far, during my 400 and something flight hours (most of them in an English environment) I didn't have a single problem.  I knock on wood...

If what I write on this forum was official, I would make my messages go through a correcter (someone, not a computer program).  

And please, stop telling me "if you want to get further in the military"...  I already have a good idea how to get where I want... With advises from people in my trade.

Max


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## aesop081 (2 Jul 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> That's one of the reason I'm in Winnipeg right now instead of Bagotville.  To work on my English.  So far, during my *400 and something flight hours * (most of them in an English environment) I didn't have a single problem.  I knock on wood...



Well ahead of you there..........but keep up the good work



> And please, stop telling me "if you want to get further in the military"...  I already have a good idea how to get where I want... .



Thats is a rather inapropriate attitude IMHO.  You have only begun you career and are still not that useful to the military.  One day you may end up as an aircraft captain, in charge of training a young first officer and you will find yourself saying that very phrase.  If you cannot graciously accept the critisim of other CF members with more experience than you, regardless of trade, how do you expect to have any credibility ?  You are an officer, lead by example.



			
				SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> With advises from people in my trade.



Do not dismiss the advice of members in other trades.  I am not a pilot and still relatively new to the aircrew world but i am sure that i could teach you a few things on flying multi-engine aircraft at 300 knots, 200 feet above the waves and on what i have observed makes a good AC or FO.  I'm sure that the more experienced navigators that frequent this site could do an even better job than i can.


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## 17thRecceSgt (2 Jul 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Don't try and tell the SSM that he looks like a kindergarden pre-schooler either.)



But...that would be a hoot to see!


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## bcbarman (3 Jul 2006)

No matter what course you are in, no matter what level you are trying to acheave, there has been people that have done it before, and guess what,  They are the ones that are teaching you what to do next.  Anyone who has been an instructor has had one of "those" moments.  

Let me explain to those that have yet to take PLQ (or whatever they call leadership courses this week) You are inspecting a new troops _____, could be anything, and they have done something dumb to cover up the fact that they did not spend the time on the _____ to get it to standard.  You think back to your course, and you know that you have done the same thing, only 10 years ago.

Those of us that remember V-neck Tshirts will laugh at that, but BMQ is designed to turn a long hair punk into a troop.  If you were a cadet back in the day, know how to polish a boot and make a bed, the first part of BMQ is easy.  Its the section attacks in 40C heat, 4 days of no sleep and helping the unprepared pass is what is hard.  I will take someone who does not know how to polish a boot yet picks up the Carl G everytime over the troop that never carries more than a bad attitude.  Translation, pick up the Carl G.

PS, Mudrecce, you took my Simpson's quote, but then again, all things in life can be referenced by using the Simpson's or sex.  

PPS: Moderators, love the Spell Check, we all !@# sometimes


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## Franko (3 Jul 2006)

bcbarman said:
			
		

> No matter what course you are in, no matter what level you are trying to acheave, there has been people that have done it before, and guess what,  They are the ones that are teaching you what to do next.  Anyone who has been an instructor has had one of "those" moments.



Too many to mention...and even more to forget. Big thing is to LEARN.




> Those of us that remember V-neck Tshirts will laugh at that.....



What do you mean remember? I still wear 'em in the field.    

Good points bcbarman.

Regards


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## Juvat (10 Jul 2006)

Like with everything, basic training has changed in its approach to training.

Being a reservist I may not be able to give any of points deriving from any Regular Force experience, but I will give my two cents regarding BMQ training from a Reserve perspective.

I have been through several basic trainings.  Done my QL2 in 1999, and my BOTC (RESO) twice (got med rtu'd the first time).  One of those BOTC was a Reg Force RESO (the first one).  Every one of those courses had instructors with different methods of instructions.  They all provided valuable and useful information and experiences which allowed us to progress while still being challenged.  True enough, the language that was being used on my QL2 compared to now was not so rosy (and yes I know that for those whoe have done their courses prior to myself have had it worse).

I have been running many courses recently, most of them BMQ/SQ/DP1(the most recent one being a Weekend BMQ, that is a whole other story...), and the changes are still happening.  I have been harped on many a times by higher for staff using foul language.  I know we are supposed to be a lovey dovey army, but you can't expect people to change overnight.  The remidial Physical Training has been severely limited too.  We are not to exceed the 40 mins PT time allotted to us.  We were not allowed giving them push-ups (even if we were doing them as well) since it may be viewed by the public as punishment.

Things have changed


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## artygirl (13 Jul 2006)

Im an instructor for Wester Area Training Center and WOW there is alot of weird ideas on here.   there are many of you who are right.  All I can say to this is, there are alot of old school guys putting in their 2 cents and honestly to you other folk those guys know what their talking about I wouldnt question it.  I work around alot of guys who have TI and they have taught me a thing or two about limits and lines they are there getting around them is simple as long as its legal and justifiable.  trust me! ...I went into watc thinking we have to treat the students like walmart workers and all that stuff but honestly its not like that at all, it is an insult to an intructor to say we coddle the troops.  WAAAAAY off on that one.  Its still damn hard ( not as hard as it used to be) but hard.  stress is a huge factor and despite the limitations we are put on as instructors it is extremly easy to place candidates in stressful situations in order to see their reaction.  This dosnt mean we have to get them to get down and give us 20 however there is a proper way to do a push up and ensuring the troops are aware of that technique is justafiable. On that note I think you get the drift.  
UBIQUE


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## Hopkins (14 Jul 2006)

It's exactly it...Kewl and the rest of the new guys (myself included) take heed to these guys.

I'm just about to head for my DP1 out in Shilo and damn I've been picking up great tips from guys with PLQ + in my unit and senior troops here on this forum.

I thought about turning my small pack into my ruck...I've tried attaching the valise and thermarest to it...Damn that was a mistake...Biggest god damn irritation on the lowerback and it just isn't made for such weight.

My SGT on BMQ/SQ was the best ever...He cared about the troops, cared about himself and his kit and taught us a bunch of really neat tricks which I'm still using every time I head out into the field or training.  I won't get into the details but the SGT served in Bosnia, Cyprus, and had a tour in Afghanistan in the early stages...He's been there, done that.

BMQ has it's ups and downs, but if it's too easy for you, then do something to increase the difficulty...Don't slack off when your done (Which by the way, your never done)...Do something useful like trying to improve your physical fitness, help your section and platoon mates...The list never ends.

Welcome to the beginning, but hear the words of the experienced...You don't know jack all yet

UBIQUE


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## KeWLKaT (15 Jul 2006)

Well, back again for more input.

Maybe I did talk too fast, haha. I *will* listen to the elder now. I have to admit, the mental portion of the course is better now (once you get used to it like I said), but the initial ''chilled out'' atmosphere disappeared by week 2, with the physical portion getting harder and harder and more than 30% of the platoon giving up during PT in the morning, though I've been keeping up quite well until now, from theory to the physical, I even beat my section commander in filling up C7 Mags manually, twice.  ;D

Though I almost reached my physical capability limits when we found ourselves in 40 Deg C weather doing PT in full NBC gear (the older, non-camo models) this week at some point, boy does it become hard to breath through that single canister when your heart rate goes way up.

Anyhow, so far so good, and I still stand by my comment, it seems like the instructors are much more ''careful'' now than back in the days, a section from the other platoon reported their MCpl that was throwing their gear around and yelling out some pretty harcore stuff at them during inspection, which got regarded as ''harassement'', but they decided to settle it face to face, and now he is much more relaxed with them, so I still think I was right by saying that with the implementation of the CPHR system in the FC, these courses are getting easier compared to, say, 6-7 years ago. By the way, I witnessed it first hand, because the perticular section is in the tent right in front of us during the course. I don't necessarily agree with this whole system, I was expecting much more abuse to be honest, and I'm not satisfied. I know it sounds wierd, but, yeah. 

I do love the way that the instructors from Blackwatch yell though, it makes me smile everytime.  

Though I love it, my capabilities got much higher now, after 3 weeks, I can do those daliy pushups without cringing now. Gotta work on the cardio though.


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## Franko (16 Jul 2006)

Good to hear that you are now into the course....and that the learning curve is going up.

As for the 40C weather and being in MOPP 4....it's a part of soldiering that no one actually relishes. Try doing that for 48 hours solid while performing a NBC Recce Team task with FFO.     ;D

As for your instructor throwing around kit and getting into trouble for it....there is probably more to it than that I would think.

There really is no need for any sort of abuse.....for there is field training to come, and there is plenty of stress for you then.

Good luck and keep the youngin's here appraised of how you are making out. You may inadvertently help them.    

Regards


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## Pte. Perry (16 Jul 2006)

From some one who just completed BMQ/SQ and is now on DP1 (Infantry), I can say that I was never physically beaten. The worst punishment was pushups (whoopedy do!). Last week we were CB'd and had to do a ruck march for punishment for not having clean EIS (the worst was my bayonet). I have had kit kicked over. A few have had their dirty boots thrown at them. I've been called everyname I can think of, and I cam away from all of it feeling fine. In a week I'll be DP1 (Infantry) qualified, and sofar have no regrets.

P.S. BMQ was a reality shock for the first three days, then evened out. SQ was not much harder, but  DP1 has been stepped up a bit.

EAT THE WEAK!!


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## artfuldodga (16 Jul 2006)

The Army has changed quite a bit in the last 7+ years. For the most part, not alot of yelling at specific individuals, unless these individuals screw up on something as serious as securing kit, etc. I never notice a persons personal kit being touched by Staff anymore. Physical Training was alot harder, if you couldn't go any longer... the Staff would of course yell at you, knock you around a bit.. keep you going. Thats part of why Training & alot of members Physical Fitness is so poor these days, because no one is allowed to really force you to do anything! I mean its the Army, makes you wonder what new recruits these days expect when they join the Forces. 

I mean, one complaint, A valid complaint, can get an Instructor booted off a Course in a snap now a days, retarded.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (16 Jul 2006)

artfuldodga said:
			
		

> .
> I mean, one complaint, A valid complaint, can get an Instructor booted off a Course in a snap now a days, retarded.



I would say thats always been the case,...what has changed is what constitutes a valid complaint.


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## artfuldodga (16 Jul 2006)

Any complaint someone can come up with these days it seems.


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## Hopkins (21 Jul 2006)

SHARP ruined and helped the military life.

If you get some weak, judgemental, babied individual, he can bash and complain his instructors all he wants about anything...Hell I was hit in the back of the head with the butt end of a pickaxe by my SGT but never took it personally...I screwed up and left my rifle pointing a little bit off the safe line.. Although a bit rash, I wasn't about to complain about it...It's their job to make sure we dont screw up..>Especially on operation and thats what Soldier Training is all about.  Don't put your buddies and the mission at risk...This is why it should be harder so you don't get cocky, arrogant individuals who think they know everything.

Even now we see Kewl's judgement has changed.  He's turning into a respectful troop realizing there are strong points and weak points to the job we do.

Anywho, just checkin in...Moving my stuff to a trailer tomorrow...Gotta get packed  :threat:


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## KeWLKaT (12 Aug 2006)

Back for more information to give out.

Just one week to go in order to finish my SQ now. BMQ was actually much, much more ''psychologically'' stressful than for SQ. Yes, in SQ, you do get a lot of physical self-abuse from, for instance, PTs, pushups, ruck marches w/ the C6 (in my case, haha  :threat: ), but, you know what, I would do that every other day rather than the much more ''psychologically'' stressful BMQ. I am loving my job now, I cannot wait to do the infantry course next summer, and finally get my rank and 22nd reg. beaver badge  ;D . I have much more respect and admiration for my instructors now, and really want to be doing that in the future, in a few years, after hopefully being able to do a MCpl course, and give new troups courses and introduce them to what our beautiful army is.


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