# The Shaving Superthread- All You Want and More....



## shaun_bougie

Hey everyone.  I‘ve been searching the forums for a topic about shaving and can‘t seem to find anything.  Maybe I‘m not looking in the right places but anyway.  Hopefully someone can help me with this.  I know shaving is required every day at basic.  Problem is I get razor burn no matter what I try.  Now my question is, how close of a shave do they expect at basic?  Do they want the "I‘m going on a hot date tonight" shaving up against the grain for a really tight shave, or is the shaving down and it‘s going to grow back by the end of the day fine?  I don‘t get burned as bad when I shave down as I do when I shave up.  Hopefully someone can help. 

Thanks a bunch.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Grow back by the end of the day was always fine  in my day and I‘m the same as you, I could never shave up as I‘d be one big blister.
CHEERS


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## D-n-A

Maybe your razor is dull?

Are you using a disposable razor or a real one(non-disposable)


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## stukirkpatrick

How close you need to shave could be just a matter of how much of a stickler your instructors are during inspections.  Also keep in mind that shaving during basic isn‘t done at a remotely leisurely pace, as you are in a rush to get outside for morning PT.

If the razor burn is severe enough (a medical condition?), then you can possibly get a chit that states you do not have to shave at all.  My section commander told me I have this option, becase of a skin medication I am taking, resulting in some nasty burns/cuts sometimes, but I can stick it out


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## shaun_bougie

Thanks guys.  I‘m using Mach 3 Turbo and they‘re not dull at all.  I change blades every second or third shave.  I was prescribed some meds for razor burn but I‘m not up for getting a chit not to shave.  It‘s bad but I‘m the same way.  I can tough it out.


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## stukirkpatrick

You haven‘t shaved till you shave in a tent at 0-dark stupid in February with a temp colder than -30 outside, when your razor is frozen (and shaving cream is broken) and all you‘ve got is some melted snow-water to damp your face...


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## meni0n

Eh? Try dry shaving in -25.


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## 48Highlander

Well I‘d say something here about having to shave in -40....except I decided not to do it.  There‘s a fine line between hard and stupid.  Shaving on winter ex‘s is pointless.


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## kurokaze

erhm... get one of those quiet electric ones.. godsend in the field.  A single charge should last 2 weeks or more.


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## stukirkpatrick

> Well I‘d say something here about having to shave in -40....except I decided not to do it. There‘s a fine line between hard and stupid. Shaving on winter ex‘s is pointless


Oh I agree, but when the CO orders it...  something about keeping hygiene in the field for simulating longer periods of time in winter conditions.

Us northerners are made of stronger stuff, up here in igloos eh?


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## shaun_bougie

Glad I start basic May 11th.  Won‘t have to worry about dry shaving in the field right now


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## mattoigta

> Originally posted by Kirkpatrick:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I‘d say something here about having to shave in -40....except I decided not to do it. There‘s a fine line between hard and stupid. Shaving on winter ex‘s is pointless
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I agree, but when the CO orders it...  something about keeping hygiene in the field for simulating longer periods of time in winter conditions.
> 
> Us northerners are made of stronger stuff, up here in igloos eh?      [/qb]
Click to expand...

Yeah? we were ordered not too since it‘s easier to get frostbite on a freshly and close shaven face


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## stukirkpatrick

hmmm, well the winter warfare pam dictates that for winter condition hygiene, you need to shave every day, preferably at night just before turning in, and keep moustaches short because they mask the presence of frostbite (not prevent it).


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## scm77

I saw this stuff on the  PPCLI Kitshop site.  Somersets shaving oil.  It says one bottle does 90 shaves.

Anyone used it?  Does it do what they say it does? ???

http://kitshop.ppcli.com/product_info.php?products_id=204&osCsid=8aff1baa98361b9970469dcb608194b8


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## Redeye

It's fantastic stuff, I've used it for years.  You can find it at most Shoppers Drug Marts, and there is a similar product called Cromwell & Cruthers that's just as good.  You still need water to shave, but just enough to wet your face a little and to rinse your razor - cold water even works fine.


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## chrisf

Be aware that this oil is made of nut oils though, as such, if you're going to be around anyone with allergies, don't use it.


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## scm77

How does such a little bottle last 90 shaves?  Do you put the oil all over your face or just put it on the razor blades?  The second option seems to make more sense.


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## Ex-Dragoon

Ever hear the old saying "a little dab will do you"?


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## chrisf

I use the Cromwell and Cruthers stuff... instructions are to wet face, apply 5 drops oil to one hand, rub hands together, then rub hands over face. I have a fairly large head/face 5 drops is usually plenty, maybe 6 for good measure, but that's it.

It's great stuff provided you're shaving every day, not very good for heavy growth.

Also has a downside in the winter, if you're wetting your face, it means you're handling extra water inside the tent, extra chance of spilling somthing or dripping on somthing, though I usually use the stuff anyway, just be careful.


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## Armymedic

Other then Shoppers Drug Mart, and online, anywhere else we can get it? 

The nearest Shopper's for me is in Ottawa.


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## chrisf

Have somone mail you a couple of bottles?


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## Redeye

scm77 - it takes 3-5 tiny drops of the stuff for a shave.

In an arctic tent, I find it uses less water than most people need to shave.  I'm trying to find a way to just have a little container (like film container but differently shaped) to hold rinse water in an efficient fashion so I don't need to use my canteen cup...

Armymedic- try any pharmacy, then.  I've seen it at a number of different places.  Loblaws here even sold it for a while.


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## tomas

I was wondering if you guys have any tips or tricks to deal with razor burn if you have any.. i sometimes get massive razor burn and it looks unsightly.. was looking for ideas before i ship to bmq


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## ringo_mountbatten

use a lubricating shaving gel.  make sure the razor is sharp.


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## Qwertz

If you don't got shaving cream/gel use some soap. If you still get razor burn and just looking to hide it.. take some cover up with you  if you got sisters or a mother i'm sure they have some laying around somewhere.


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## tomas

are you implying i dont have cover up? 


jk i dont have any.. but it would be a good idea thanks


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## ringo_mountbatten

umm i am not so sure you wanna get caught wearing cover up if you are a guy. just a thought that the razor burn might be better to show than having someone find out you are wearing coverup.


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## tomas

actually i figure youd get yelled at for razor burn id rahter wear consealer than get yelled at


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## ringo_mountbatten

i think concealer might elicit the same response as razor burn.   you are better off trying to find a way to shave that doesn't result in razor burn and just take care of the problem at the source.


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## Inch

They're not animals, they're not going to jack you up for razor burn. If they find out you put on makeup, man it's all over.
In the words of my first troop commander, "Suck it up Buttercup"

Cheers


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## atticus

You won't get any trouble for having having razor burn. Guy on my BMQ got it extremly bad and he had no problem whatsoever, in fact one of our MCpl gave him tips for getting rid of it. Your also not allowed to wear make-up while in uniform. And hasn't this topic been discussed?


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## D-n-A

Yea, you won't get jacked up for razor burn(great way to show to the NCOs that you shaved that morning too      )

But wearing make up... if your a guy.. just no.. you will get jacked up rather harshly an probably get a warning.


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## Tpr.Orange

If your razor burn is really really bad ...chances are your going to be able to go to the MIR and get a med chit stating that you can take 48 hours in between shaves.


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## Michael Dorosh

Also, always shave in the same direction; this is a simple thing but some guys miss it.  Make sure the strokes on your face go the same direction each time you shave.


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## Inch

I used to get it on my neck really bad, Mach 3 Turbo with Nivea for men shave gel (the menthol one) and Nivea aftershave.  Works wonders, if it doesn't just try different shaving creams/gels until you find a good one, I used to swear by Edge Gel till by buddy told me to try Nivea menthol and I haven't used anything else since. Also, take a wet washcloth soaked with water as hot as you can stand and hold it on your face for a few seconds before laying the gel on. It'll open your pores and allow your hair to move around without getting really irritated. Then when you rinse, use warm-cool water, not cold if you can help it.  Then rub the aftershave on, if you're bleeding hold a towel around your chin/neck for a few min.

It works for me, the only time I get bad razor burn now is if I'm wearing a shirt and tie and it rubs on my neck.

Cheers


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## tomas

btw guys i was kidding bout the makeup  im just tired and being goofy but thanks for the info bout razor burn.. i sometimes get it bad


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## combat_medic

The hotter and wetter you can get your face before shaving, the easier the save. If you can, have a hot shower and shave immediately after. If not, the suggestion about the hot wet washcloth works well. It will soften the hair and make for an easier shave.

Another trick I learned is to use hair conditioner instead of shaving cream. It will gunk up your razor faster, but softens the hairs and moisturizes the skin at the same time. Especially useful if you're in a hotel room and don't have shaving cream.


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## Bert

If you're going to a Reg Force BMQ in St.Jean, likely (sorry Combat Medic) you won't get a chance 
to take a hot morning shower.  First off, its never hot and second the guys that cleaned the 
washroom the night before will be pissed and throw a mop at you.

Razor burn is skin irritation caused by the blade scraping off a layer of decent skin as well as the
wiskers and other stuff.  In most cases, the skin will adapt to frequent daily shavings over
time (may be two weeks) but temporary discomfort is unavoidable.  Just make it bearable 
for yourself and the Staff will get the picture once they see the razor burn so don't sweat it.

From my experience, use a moisturizing shaving gel and Schick disposables (sharp, gets in
the curves, and keeps sharpness over many shaves).  Wash your face and pat dry.
Apply a moisturing creme over the rough areas or anywhere it feels dry.  Keep
a tube of Zincofax around on areas that get really tender.  It will heal.  As a week and
then two go by, the razor burn will diminish as the skin adapts to shaving.  

Good luck.


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## Kevin_B

Are electric razors allowed?


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## arctictern

I figured this would be a good place to ask since all or most of you shave(males of course).


Well everytime I shave I get razor burn on my neck... I try shaving against the grain, with the grain and it doesn't matter what I do I still get razor burn.
I use Gillette sensitive skin shaving gel not cream, Addia's anti-razor burn aftershave and a shick 4 razor blade. Can you guys give me some pointers as to what I mite be doing wrong or what I should be doing to get it right? (I've also tried skin moisturizer to keep it from getting dry and it made little difference.)



*edit* I know this kind of thing has been asked a lot but I think it mite be because of the kind of razor I am using or something.


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## George Wallace

You may have a minor allergy.  Try using soap and water only after shaving.  I have a problem with aftershave lotions, so I don't use them at all (well hardly).

GW


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## ReadyAyeReady

I have one thing to say:

Gillette Mach III

I used to get razor burn all the time...until I tried out the Mach III...its pricy but worth it...and you don't have to change the blades all the time.


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## arctictern

Well I use the Schick with 4 blades and it's a good razor. How often should you be changing the blades?


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## Garbageman

Four blades can mean four times the irritation.  Try a razor with fewer blades and see if it makes any difference.


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## AmmoTech90

Electric,

Used to get little cut and bumps all around my Adam's Apple and a couple of inchs to each side.  Switched to electric around 12 years ago and would never go back.  Have gone through three razors in that time.  Give your face a week or so to get used to it and buy a decent razor and you should be fine (unless your one of those people who can use electrics...).  A good rechargable should last a week or so on a charge so you can take it on short TDs, or just buckle down and use a normal blade in the field if conditions dont allow for electric.
Yep the Mach 3 is nice, took it to the UK with me recently and used it there.  Got around five or six shaves from a blade before I noticed a degradation in qualitity, but I have a fairly heavy beard.


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## ramy

I use the Mach 3 razor too and I have been very happy with it. As ReadyAyeReady said, its a little pricy but its well worth it.


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## winchable

I also use to get extremely irritated where I would shave regardless of what aftercare I used or how I shaved. 
I switched to electric and I will never go back unless I have to.
A decent electric is worth the investment, however there are obviously certain times you can't use it..


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## the 48th regulator

I use a Mach 3t oo and love it, but I too have very sensitive skin, and thick hair. 

I get the nicks and burns as well.  but it is funny some days I do, some I don't.

I Should have become a Pioneer

tess


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## pbi

I use the old fashioned Gillette "safety razor", usually with normal shaving cream. I put on some warm soapy water first, then lather. (right now in A'stan I'm using shaving "cakes" that produce lather...). I use a sharp blade (keep replacing it often) and I get a very close shave (much better than any electric I have ever tried...) with no irritation.

I think alot of it has to do with skin and hair types. My son, who is a much hairier guy than me, gets hideous razor burn and sometimes has to stop shaving for a couple of days-he uses MachIII. Cheers.


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## AndrewD83

You guys got it all wrong.  It isn't the blade that determines whether you get razor burn... it is the protection you use!  I use to get nasty razor burn if I shaved every day or so.  I tried Mach III, expensive electric shavers, cheap one blade Bic shavers.... and I always got razor burn.

So I started changing my shaving cream.  After many trips to the drug store I finally found one shaving cream that doesn't give me razor burns.

*Aveeno - Therapeutic Shave Gel* is what you need. (there are many different kinds of Aveeno.... make sure you get the 'Therapeutic Shave Gel.'  It has the navy blue cap.)  It is just as expensive as any other shaving cream on the market and can be easily found in any drug store.

Now I can use any razor (I am currently shaving with the Schick disposiable, two blade razors.  Very cheap and easy to find, excellent close shave) and I do not get even a hint of razor burn or bumps even after shaving five or six days in a row.

Hope this helps guys.


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## Tpr.Orange

Ive never used an electric razor but i was wondering what it would be like...

do you still get razor burn from it? can it be used when you have thick growth...? and last of all where can i find one? cause ive looked around and cant seem to find one.


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## AmmoTech90

You can get a bit of irritation, but its normally gone within a few minutes.  Make sure you get a razor with a trimmer attachment and use that for any longer hairs.  If you don't keep it clean you will miss a lot but brush it out daily and it should be fine.
Try Zellers, Walmart, or Canadian Tire, they all carry a bunch of different types.


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## arctictern

Thanks for your replays everyone, I think I got enough info to work on the way I shave and stop the burn.

As for the whole topic of electric razors... I have had experience with them and I find that when using electric razors I get even more razor burn from it then I would from a razor.


Cheers.


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## Alex252

Now that i've got youre attention , I'm having some problems with shaving. Now i know there is a thing on shaving lurking around somewhere i cant find it, so gladly redirect me to there if you need.....Anyways, i just started using a razor, before i used an electric but it didnt produce results. So i got a Mach 3 razor and some Aloe Vera based cream. Since ive started shaving ive been gettin red bumps all across the places i shaved. This is not from cutting myself as there is no blood on the surface. It almost looks like pimples ???. Now someone tells me it could be a ingrown hair, a different person told me its just a few pimples.  

Any Advice would be great!!!!!!!!


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## McG

Use warmer water.  It makes a difference for me.


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## scm77

The red bumps are razor burn.  Try getting an shaving cream with extra moisturizer.  Shave in the shower.  I had the same problem and the extra moisture/humidity from the hot water in the shower helped alot.  Also make sure the razor is nice and sharp.


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## Sh0rtbUs

Shaving in the shower is the way to go...

I do it as scm77 said, and it's worked for me ever since. As well, dont scratch if you feel some irritation after shaving, that will go away after a half hour of so. If you scratch, you'll just promote break out.


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## MissMolsonIndy

Alex252 said:
			
		

> Now that i've got youre attention , I'm having some problems with shaving. Now i know there is a thing on shaving lurking around somewhere i cant find it, so gladly redirect me to there if you need.....Anyways, i just started using a razor, before i used an electric but it didnt produce results. So i got a Mach 3 razor and some Aloe Vera based cream. Since ive started shaving ive been gettin red bumps all across the places i shaved. This is not from cutting myself as there is no blood on the surface. It almost looks like pimples ???. Now someone tells me it could be a ingrown hair, a different person told me its just a few pimples.
> 
> Any Advice would be great!!!!!!!!



It's neither, actually. It is a typical case of razor burn. Soak your skin in warm water before you shave, the red bumps are caused by the friction of the blades on dry skin. Also, try using a brand of shaving cream for sensitive skin. If none of those work, switch to a dry shaver, they generally prevent irritation.


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## Lexi

It's razor burn.
Shave in the shower, shave often, use sensitive skin shaving cream...

Sometimes I find using moisturizer after shaving helps alot. 

Good luck,
Lex


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## Northern Touch

You may end up just having to deal with it after a while.
Right after a shower seems to work well for me, and make sure you use a sharp razor.
I still get razor burn tho, even when I do use warm water, sharp blade and after shave.  I've found that if you buy some Tea Tree oil and use it before you go to bed it will actually help, but watch out for the smell. :-X


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## I_Drive_Planes

I'm quite prone to razor burn myself, and I find that shaving before I shower helps a lot.  I think that the oil that's on your skin before you wash it off helps to protect it.  Also I find that an alcohol based aftershave makes a big difference, not sure why, but it does.  You will also find that as you shave more the problem becomes less.   

Of course you could always grow a big ZZTop beard!  >

Best of luck,

Brodie


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## Goober

I always get razor burn on my neck, but not any more, I use Neutrogena Men skin clearing shave cream and aftershave, and I shave in the shower with a Mach 3.


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## Lost_Warrior

Like everyone above said, it's razor burn.

It could be caused from a number of reasons.  I had that when I first joined.  I was used to shaving once a week, then to shaving every day, my skin couldn't take it.

The more you shave, the tougher your skin will become.  After a few weeks of shaving every day, I didn't get razor burn anymore.   

I used standard shaving cream.  Nothing special.


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## McG

I would not recommend becoming dependant on a shower in order to shave.  It does not work in the field.


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## Gilligan

Well, yeah, I would definitly just follow the advice of these guys....but also watch, because it could be the shaving cream you are using....you might be allergic to it.  That's what happened to one of the guys on my BRT, we all thought it was rasor burn....but it turned out he was allergic to something in the cream.  It's doubtful that that is what it is, so no worries, but just a sidenote.


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## Alex252

Sometimes i shave with  no cream (some people think im nuts!) but no red bumps? I have Edge Aloe Vera based cream and it works but i still get some bumps. Could this be a reaction or just the fact that i tend to press harder on my face with the cream on, then with it not on


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## Gilligan

hmmm, I would switch to a different brand, maybe you are having a reaction, that is if you aren't getting bumps when you shave without it.  Maybe try the sensitive skin one...


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## mrosseker

I had this problem once, and I started using a face lotion before I shaved, and it helped. If you go to a grocery store, in the shaving section you might be able to find it. It's called "Lectric Shave" and it's like a lubricant for your face that you put on before you put on the shaving cream. It comes in a little blue bottle and is about $5.  Worked wonders for me. 

Oh, and what's been stated above, the more you shave, the less razor burn you will get. Either your face gets tougher, or cutting off the shorter hairs is easier, or both. I don't know but it works.


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## 48Highlander

There's different brands of shavin oil.  You can order this one on-line:

http://kitshop.ppcli.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=204&osCsid=fb6e541e5c4ed7880e82324ef5d8e6a0


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## Fishbone Jones

Or my preference, plain baby oil. It's all I use. No foam, soap, etc. Just baby oil. Good close, clean shave and no irritation.


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## thatoldfool

I had similar problems, until an old cadet friend of mine suggested that I shave at night, before I pack it in. Six to seven hours later, when I get up, I find that the shave has "lasted," and any irritation that might have occurred right after shaving has gone away. This is especially useful on winter exercises, as shaving before bed allows for the oils that protect one's face from windburn etc to regenerate as one sleeps.

Unless your beard grows in very quickly, this method should work.


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## ImanIdiot

1. Always use a sharp blade, when it gets dull, throw it out.
2. Use the warmest water your face can stand.
3. Try Barbasol Sensitive Skin shaving cream. I bought some when I first started shaving and it worked really well.


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## gun plumber

Anyone have any experience with this stuff?Is it a worth while addition to a shave kit?Any testimonials would be appreciated.


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## dw_1984

I've used a different brand shaving oil a couple of times.  Makes shaving more comfortable but I noticed it clogged up my razor and it was hard to clean out of the Mach3 (switched to dispossables in my field bag).  Now a days I use an electric razor...simple and fast and easy but I keep the oil and a dispossable just in case.


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## aspiring_recruit

Redeye said:
			
		

> In an arctic tent, I find it uses less water than most people need to shave.  I'm trying to find a way to just have a little container (like film container but differently shaped) to hold rinse water in an efficient fashion so I don't need to use my canteen cup...



how bout those plastic travel soap containers?, there big enough to rinse a razor, and will hold just about enough water

my two pence


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## Bomber

This stuff is OK, not great, but not bad.  I second the motion of just getting the little Braun single foil razor form a Canex or Sears.  It costs 12 bucks in the most simple form, and takes batteries the army gives you.  I have two of them, I bought a new one when the blade got dull on the old one, as the complete shaver is 20 bucks less than the replacement blade.  You can get this oil at some walmarts, and I have seen it in Zellers.  Body Shop also has something sort of like this in a little silver can.


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## Duke

The shaving oil is great! Not great for use outside of the home though, for many of the reasons mentioned (clogs razor, need for water etc.). It is also expensive. To get around that, I make my own! The main ingredient ,"Olus", is actually vegetable oil! Add some tea tree oil, some menthol oil and -ta da- instant shaving oil for 1/20th the cost of Somersets!

Duke


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## Fishbone Jones

I just use Johnson's Baby Oil and it works fine. Cheap and effective.


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## Duke

Baby oil. Great idea! Cheap, and it softens the skin as well. When I run out of my industrial sized supply of home made Somerset's, I'll give it a try.

Duke


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## HollywoodHitman

Smell like diapers. Chicks dig that. 

The old de-congestant spray bottles work well for that sort of thing. I have hydrogen peroxide for my blister kit in one, and I am going to put some of this cool oil in another. Just make the texture of the bottles is different, so you don't actually use the oil for blisters, or the hydrogen peroxide for nasal spray........or now, your shaving oil for either.


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## TCBF

Ach, noo bloody wonder this NEW Army smells like a bunch of Bulgarian prostitutes sweating in a police station!
You guys would absolutely REEK in the jungle!

 ;D

Tom


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## the 48th regulator

what arctic tents are we talking about??   you got hot water on the go on the old coleman.. a tent is only set up in a secure area, so an abolution site is set up..man am I missing somethin here???

tess


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## NATO Boy

Another advantage with using Shaving Oil is it's mostly Aloe and natural oils (thus you can dump your shaving water anywhere when using it and it won't go wierd.) Lately, however, I try to go electric instead (but use Lectric Shave with Menthol) because my baby face can't take the punishing hacks of a Mach 3 Turbo every 24 hours.


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## chrisf

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> what arctic tents are we talking about??   you got hot water on the go on the old coleman.. a tent is only set up in a secure area, so an abolution site is set up..man am I missing somethin here???



We always set up an (5 man) arctic tent for sigs, we figure if you've got a CP w/ penthouse set up, and a generator running, the tactical situation is such that it's reasonably secure anyway, or at least it better be.


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## Canadian Sig

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> We always set up an (5 man) arctic tent for sigs, we figure if you've got a CP w/ penthouse set up, and a generator running, the tactical situation is such that it's reasonably secure anyway, or at least it better be.



   My Det never sets up a 5 man tent. We use small reccee tents and our aboulutions are done in the pod or on the tailgate. We only use arctic tents in winter training.


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## chrisf

No doubt the recce tent is better, it was my understanding the the arctic tent was SOP though?


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## Kat Stevens

When the temp hits minus-holy-crap, I'll take the arctic tent over the recce bag any time.  Anyone who was in 12 Fd Sqn for workup trg in fall of '96 will know what I'm talking about...  And a well drilled crew can set up an arctic tent just as  quickly as a recce tent.

CHIMO,  Kat


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## Canadian Sig

Kat. I totaly agree. However when you only have 2 or 3 guys in your detachment then the arctic tent starts to feel kinda un-necessary.


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## chrisf

They're also not so good in the rain or the summer (Too warm and wet respectively)


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## Julynight

Im in the process of enrolling...and i wanna know...Will i be able to keep this uber beard i just grew?


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## static void

Nope, only allowed a 'conventional moustache'.


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## Ex-Dragoon

Not while you are going through Basic. The only ones allowed beards these days are sailors that have a shore billet that does not have anything to do with DC, those of a religion that require a beard, and those that have a chit from an MO that has allowed them to cease shaving. Sorry but you are probably out of luck!


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## scm77

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> and those that have a chit from an MO that has allowed them to cease shaving



What would allow someone to get a chit to let them stop shaving?

Just curious because shaving everyday usually causes my skin to get red, irritated (bumpy) and painful (stings).

It's not a huge problem and I can put up with it if necessary, but if I can avoid it....

Is it possible to get a chit so you can shave every other day instead of every day?


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## Ex-Dragoon

scm77 said:
			
		

> What would allow someone to get a chit to let them stop shaving?
> 
> Just curious because shaving everyday usually causes my skin to get red, irritated (bumpy) and painful (stings).
> 
> It's not a huge problem and I can put up with it if necessary, but if I can avoid it....
> 
> Is it possible to get a chit so you can shave every other day instead of every day?



That would be something that you would need to discuss with your UMS or MO.


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## Julynight

awww but think of the money they can save on camo? Its my only disappointment I've heard so far since applying. Another thing, Do I have to learn french?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Suck to be you re. the beard. The Navy won't give you any sympathy as any sea going billets have lost or in the process of losing their beards (grrrrr). As for learning French, while its benefical to learn or have a seconda language it is not mandatory, there are some trades that push it more then others.


----------



## Glorified Ape

Julynight said:
			
		

> Do I have to learn french?



Depends on if you're going officer or not. If I'm not mistaken, all officers have to attend Second Language Training if they're not sufficiently bilingual. It's a good thing though - you learn another language (or as much as you can) and it's an easy-going course.


----------



## familyman

I got a weird problem.I have only shaved with a hair trimmer for the last 3 years because every time I use an electric razor or your normal razor I get ingrown hairs like crazy,its just a big mess.I heard we got to shave every day in basic,not good..Don't get me wrong I will grit and bear it,but my question is if their is anyone who shares this problem with me and how did you handle it,maybe their is something easy I can do to take away the problem.who knows.


----------



## old medic

Do you have natural curly hair? Have to talked to a doctor about this yet?
It could be Pseudofolliculitis Barbae (PFB), commonly know as (razor bumps).
Or straight Folliculitis.

http://www.emedicine.com/derm/topic354.htm

Have you tried using a medicated shaving gel ?

Further reading here: 
http://web.mit.edu/hudson/www/shaving.html#sensitive

My advice is seek a dermatologist.


----------



## familyman

thanks allot old medic.did you see that picture of that guy,holy crap,thats what I'm afraid of,I am going to try some of those tips,hope they work,got nothing left.but they also suggest not shaving every day,if your skin gets irritated.Do i have to shave every day?.will they show Pitty on me or make me suck it up..thanks


----------



## old medic

You'll need to be clean shaven. So yes, every day.  Try some of those tips, especially if you haven't 
tried them before. Perhaps there is an easy way around the problem waiting to be discovered.

If not, then speak with a doctor. A doctor can suggest other treatment or referal to a dermatologist.
Once your in, discuss it with the medical staff. Chits to restrict shaving are possible.


----------



## Sf2

you may be able to get a medical chit


----------



## familyman

im sorry,what is a medical chit?


----------



## old medic

It would be a medical document the medical staff would place on your file and give you a copy of.
Simply put, It would give you specific instructions. In this case, no shaving.


----------



## Fry

familyman,

My advice about the in-grown hair.

I have always shaved with a normal razor, and always thought that I had acne. Until I learned it was ingrown hair! Not nice at all, since my face was smooth as a baby's @ss. Anywho, I got some very good tips and I'll share them with you.

1. Always shave with the grain. Not as close a shave, but I found NO ingrown hair. This is about the best tip I can give. I've seen commercials, as well as other people going against the grain. It feels a little better, BUT it can cause the hair to grow back in the skin and cause it to get red, swelled, and irritated.

2. Before shaving, lather, then put on shaving cream. Shave, then rinse and use after shave or a gel. Does the face a world of good.

3. Always shave with lukewarm to cold water. This is easier on the face and extends the life of your blade considerably. If you shave in hot water, many say that the blade expands considerably then contracts, and after a shave or 2, the edge can be dulled bigtime.

4. Don't use dull blades..(Duh, lol)

If you haven't tried these, do so. If you have.. then I guess this post was a waste of time, lol!


----------



## The_Falcon

Just follow the advice in the links above.  I have problems with ingrown hair with i have to shave on a consistent basis, and after consulting with my dermatoligist, he basically gave me the same advice as posted in the links.  (however he couldn't conivce me to give up my M3 power, although i really should they are expensive.) 



			
				Fry said:
			
		

> 2. Before shaving, lather, then put on shaving cream. Shave, then rinse and use after shave or a gel. Does the face a world of good.
> 
> 3. Always shave with lukewarm to cold water. This is easier on the face and extends the life of your blade considerably. If you shave in hot water, many say that the blade expands considerably then contracts, and after a shave or 2, the edge can be dulled bigtime.



as an addendum to whats above if wet shaving try and do it after you shower so the heat and moisture will have allowed the hair to get nice and soft, also do NOT use alcohol based after shaves or gels it will dry out your skin and make the problems worse.  Also never, never, never shave with cold water unless you want to rip apart your face.  I dunno who told you that fry but they are off the mark.


----------



## Armymedic

Before we start, here is the except from the Dress regulations CFP 265:



> Moustaches (see Figure 2-2-2). When
> moustaches are worn alone, the
> unshaven portion of the face shall not
> extend outwards beyond the corners of
> the mouth. Moustaches shall be kept
> neatly trimmed; not be greater than 2
> cm (3/4 in.) in bulk; not extend below
> the corners of the mouth, not protrude
> beyond the width of the face when fully
> extended horizontally and worn in a
> waxed, handlebar style.



But this is not about that. 

I did notice, while watching the news coverage of the PRT, the large, bulbous moustaches several of the NCOs were sporting. Is this the new style? Being a moustache wearer myself, I know large moustaches act as an efficient catcher of dust, and other airborne contaminants. The caught items will stay in the hair and be breathed in at a later time, causing problems. This is the reason why season allergy suffers should keep their 'staches trimmed.

My point, while the large moustache may be stylish at home, in my humble opinion everyone would be better served maintaining a trimmed small moustache that doesn't catch a whole bunch of dust.

Also shaving...It is encouraged, no...demanded that everyone shaves every day. For some (a minority group of them) soldiers shaving every day is somewhat impractical due to a shortage of water. Even then, not shaving is only tolerated for a short period of time.

It is insisted because it shows a high level of discipline and good personal hygiene....

So is the unwillingness complete the regimine of daily personal hygiene due predominately from fashion trends or traditional friction to the rules?

Thoughts.


----------



## bossi

Your points re: hygiene are valid.
However, specifically in regard to the PRT, there are mitigating factors
(i.e. "When in Rome, do as the Romans ..." is equally applicable in the predominantly Muslim culture of Afghanistan)


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Facial hair seems to make Arabs more open to you and more approachable.


----------



## Armymedic

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Facial hair seems to make Arabs more open to you and more approachable.





> (i.e. "When in Rome, do as the Romans ..." is equally applicable in the predominantly Muslim culture of Afghanistan)



After working with the Afghan National Army for the last 6 months...with all due respect, I call BS on that. 

The majority of males in Afghanistan do not have an abundance of facial hair, nor (as far as I understand) do they put as much wieght on the facial hair as the apparant age of the man they are dealing with.


----------



## AmmoTech90

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Facial hair seems to make Arabs more open to you and more approachable.



Ex-Dragoon,

That is quite possibly true.  Unfortunately Afghans are not Arab so it's not really applicable.  Afghan is pretty much synonymous with Pashtun who are closer to Iranian (i.e. Persian).  Some Arab families or tribes were assimilated into Pashtun families during the Islamic invasions but they became Pashtun, not the other way around.


----------



## Acorn

Arabs and Persians (Iranians) and their Afghan cousins (Pashtuns especially) respect age, as Armymedic says. Facial hair in and of itself is not an object of veneration, and the wild beards of the Taliban (an affectation based on religious practice) are actually not admired much any more in Afghanistan (like many Taliban practices). That being said, facial hair can alter one's appearance to look more aged, especially a grey or greying beard, which will cause more respect to be offered.

Allowing soldiers to grow facial hair on the assumption that it will gain them more respect is dangerous. In fact, being respectful in your dealings with the locals will produce enough respect for you to succeed in your mission. 

Acorn


----------



## GO!!!

Our translator in Afghanistan was a rather frank and open type of guy, and he told us we seemed to be modelling ourselves after women, with reference to our daily shaving. 

And in regards to the "western, mountain man" way of doing things, sigs guys grow bellies all the time, we grow moustaches on tour. Same $hit, different pile - right  

Seriously though, most of the Patricia CSM's seem to form an aversion to upper lip shaving, though mostly on tour, and men of all ranks have sported impressive growths imaginitively colored with chew spit and nicotine - it's like art!!


----------



## buzgo

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Our translator in Afghanistan was a rather frank and open type of guy, and he told us we seemed to be modelling ourselves after women, with reference to our daily shaving.
> 
> And in regards to the "western, mountain man" way of doing things, sigs guys grow bellies all the time, we grow moustaches on tour. Same $hit, different pile - right
> 
> Seriously though, most of the Patricia CSM's seem to form an aversion to upper lip shaving, though mostly on tour, and men of all ranks have sported impressive growths imaginitively colored with chew spit and nicotine - it's like art!!



It's like the NDHQ dishevelled, wrinkled, dandruffy wild-man 20 year captain look!  ^-^

The reason I made that assumption about the 'mountain-man' thing is because there are a few PPCLI CWO types walking around here (NDHQ  :-[) and one or two of them have the crazy biker 'stache going on. Makes me wish that I could grow facial hair. hehe


----------



## KevinB

Honestly I fail to see why shaving is hygenic - bathing yes - but I dont know about you but my face is allegic to Afghan Poo dust w/o at least about a weeks worth of facial hair.

Secondly I'd be musch more worried what one weapons and kit where maintained like in a COMBAT theatre rather than some Garrision mentality of what a solider should look like...


----------



## Seamus449

Is it true that you do not have to shave more than ONCE in every 24 hour period? On my BMQ I was "awarded" many red chits for not shaving even though I had shaven properly that morning. It ended up that I had to shave 3 times in every 24 hour period to satisfy my course staff, maybe I should see if I can get a refund for 2/3 of the razors I used...


----------



## SprCForr

KevinB said:
			
		

> ...Secondly I'd be musch more worried what one weapons and kit where maintained like in a COMBAT theatre rather than some Garrision mentality of what a solider should look like...



It's simply a relaxation of the chickensh*t. It happens on Ex and on tour.

Not waxing the 'stache daily + a little longer and thicker than usual = no big deal.

KevinB nailed it good.


----------



## GO!!!

In addition to Army Medics earlier post in regards to his experience with the ANA, I would also like to point out that the differences between Kabul and Kandahar are significant, in regards to most people and their reactions towards you.

Perhaps we are comparing apples and oranges with the ISAF mission in Kabul and the PRT in Kandahar?

And besides, big staches are cool because;

1) you can compete with them
2) Officers get mad about them - but can't stop you
3) you can save chew in them
4) Chicks dig a man with an impressive stache
5) They give you wicked tan lines when your girlfriend makes you shve it off after the BTE
6) Most girls in the army can't grow them


----------



## Armymedic

GO!!! said:
			
		

> In addition to Army Medics earlier post in regards to his experience with the ANA, I would also like to point out that the differences between Kabul and Kandahar are significant, in regards to most people and their reactions towards you.



Not in this situation because I was dealing with Afghans soldiers from all over the country, not just Kabul. One of the Kandak doctors was from the south.



> Perhaps we are comparing apples and oranges with the ISAF mission in Kabul and the PRT in Kandahar?


 The two missions are definitely diffrent types of fruit...but the only culture we are dealing with in this discussion is our own.



			
				KevinB said:
			
		

> Secondly I'd be musch more worried what one weapons and kit where maintained like in a COMBAT theatre rather than some Garrision mentality of what a solider should look like...



Actually, I would be worried about the whole soldier, kit and all...If you can't find time or effort to take care of yourself and shave once ever 3-4 days, then when will you find the time to take care of your kit in the COMBAT theater...

BTW does anyone know where it actually says "shave every day" ? Because it does not say that in the dress regs....


----------



## KevinB

I got that shitsucking flea bite - so I did not have to shave  ;D

  As long as the guy washes (when he can) I dont see shaving as a hygeine issue. 

GO!!! has the best point though - CDI


----------



## Hopkins

2 reasons why you have to shave

1. Hygeine
2. You cannot get a proper seal with a god damn gas mask if the hair is blocking it...Hence the reason of shaving.


----------



## GO!!!

Pte Hopkins said:
			
		

> 2 reasons why you have to shave
> 
> 1. Hygeine
> 2. You cannot get a proper seal with a god darn gas mask if the hair is blocking it...Hence the reason of shaving.



Wrong, and wrong again.

Shaving in austere environments LEADS to skin infections, due to dirty water, dust etc. 

A proper seal can be obtained with a gas mask and beard - I've done it. And before your 16 year old know it all ass starts arguing - think - the assault pioneers are permitted to grow beards - right? One of their tasks is NBC survey - right? 1 + 1 = stay on the cadet forums and read the rest of the thread if you don't.

Oh, and have a nice day


----------



## Hopkins

Lol stay on the cadet forums, my o my, what crawled intoyour cereal this morning.

Maybe I am wrong, I can't say I believed 100% what I was taught...I just got back yesterday from my BMQ and SQ so that is what I was taught and that is what I knew.  If I'm wrong, so be it.  No need for the attitude.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Pte Hopkins said:
			
		

> 2 reasons why you have to shave
> 
> 1. Hygeine
> 2. You cannot get a proper seal with a god damn gas mask if the hair is blocking it...Hence the reason of shaving.





			
				Pte Hopkins said:
			
		

> Lol stay on the cadet forums, my o my, what crawled intoyour cereal this morning.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong, I can't say I believed 100% what I was taught...I just got back yesterday from my BMQ and SQ so that is what I was taught and that is what I knew.   If I'm wrong, so be it.   No need for the attitude.



As opposed to your authoritive, end all answer above? Possibly stating in advance, that your qualifications and TI to speak on the subject were somewhat limited, may have helped your cause....and deflected the terse response. In future, you may want to back up the truck, before you unload.


----------



## Seamus449

It doesn't matter, its the internet, most people have a hard time saying what they want to say and having the right feelings conveyed along with the message, but then again a lot of people are just hostile   Anyways I'm pro-beard, as most in the CF probably are I can see reasons for the army to not allow beards but I have my own reasons to why I think they should be allowed. I think the primary reason the Army has for not allowing beards is appearence. If they were allowed then a lot of guys would come in with half *** beards all the time that don't look tough like a good helping of stubble (well I liek to think so anyways lol) they'd just look bad, and there excuse? "I'm trying to grow a beard M. Cpl!" Then when they felt like it they'd shave and it'd start all over, so I'm willing to keep the beard off my face. What I do have a problem though is having to have a beautifullly clean shave, this isn't so much a problem for me being in the reserves on my one night a week, I can just shave an hour beforehand and be good until the end of the night. But while on course I had to shave 3 times a day to satisfy my course staff and thats a pain in the *** when you've got sensitive skin already and you're running around like mad most of the time trying to do everything that needs doing. I know I won't get any sympathy for that, there must be people that've got it worse then me, I'm sure of that but I'm almost sure I heard one of my course staff say that we only have to shave once a day, and I think that would be preferable to 3 times. But I'm sure my skin will toughen up and get used to the blade it never knew before the army, but the hair isn't gonna slow down any...


----------



## GGHG_Cadet

KevinB said:
			
		

> Honestly I fail to see why shaving is hygenic - bathing yes - but I dont know about you but my face is allegic to Afghan Poo dust w/o at least about a weeks worth of facial hair.


Is it true that the dust in Afghanistan is 60% feces? I heard our Reg Force Mcpl at camp talking about it and I was wondering if it was true.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

I think our initial estimate was 30%. Certainly seems plausible, it's got nowhere else to go. It dries in the sun and gets gound into the dust, wind comes up.....voila! Although they did testing when we were there and said "officially" don't worry about it, it's not a problem. That didn't help much though when you woke up in the morning feeling like someone had shit in your mouth, and spent all day smelling nothing but shit.


----------



## Seamus449

I wouldn't wanna slice open any pores if I knew that would be mixing with my sweat and flowing into them  :-X It'd make for some pretty nasty looking ingrown hairs and maybe a nice rash that you'd have to shave over the next day.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

We shaved every day and I, personally, didn't have a problem.


----------



## KevinB

recceguy said:
			
		

> and I, personally, didn't have a problem.



Your just harder than me  ;D


----------



## Fishbone Jones

KevinB said:
			
		

> Your just harder than me   ;D



Nope. The hide, err skin, is just older and thicker.


----------



## paracowboy

recceguy said:
			
		

> We shaved every day


uuhh, yeah! Me too. 
And a large percentage of the air/dust you breathe *everywhere* is fecal matter. Animal, mostly.


----------



## Armymedic

GGHG_Cadet said:
			
		

> Is it true that the dust in Afghanistan is 60% feces? I heard our Reg Force Mcpl at camp talking about it and I was wondering if it was true.



Absolutely not true !!!


----------



## Gunner98

Seamus449 said:
			
		

> What I do have a problem though is having to have a beautifullly clean shave, this isn't so much a problem for me being in the reserves on my one night a week, I can just shave an hour beforehand and be good until the end of the night. But while on course I had to shave 3 times a day to satisfy my course staff and thats a pain in the *** when you've got sensitive skin already and you're running around like mad most of the time trying to do everything that needs doing. I know I won't get any sympathy for that, there must be people that've got it worse then me, I'm sure of that but I'm almost sure I heard one of my course staff say that we only have to shave once a day, and I think that would be preferable to 3 times. But I'm sure my skin will toughen up and get used to the blade it never knew before the army, but the hair isn't gonna slow down any...



When I first joined I had to get a haircut every six days and shave twice a day.  Now I am completely bald and use a good disposable blade.  Many naval uniform wearers grow a poor excuse for a beard.  Getting a really good shave requires good shaving cream, a good blade and properly moisten face.  Soldiers being clean shaven results from 2 criteria:  1) Hygiene - if you haven't shaved there is a good chance you haven't washed. 2) Gas mask fitting - if doesn't fit tight you will not live another day.  These criteria are the same for the Navy when they sail on ops.

The original statement regarding feces in the Afghan air has been misquoted - it was 60% more feces in the air than in Cda, in both cases the amount is insignificant.  See article at:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Feature_Story/2004/jan04/16_f_e.asp


----------



## Ninja9186

I had a buddy who did Reserve training in Kingston and he used an electric shaver.  Seeing as how it saves alot of time to shave with a machine rather than not I was wondering if it would be also allowed for Reg Force BMQ in Borden.


----------



## boehm

I would advise against using a electric razor as electric razors were a big no no on my basic in Shilo. Not only are they impractical in the field (batteries, noise, recharging, etc) but if you know how to shave properly a razor can be just as fast, if not faster then a electric razor. Also, remember that the vast majority will not bring electric razors so if you decide to bring an electric razor in order to be standardized for inspection you will have to purchase (or bring) a normal razor and shaving cream. 

Oh and one last thing, weather or not you decide to use an electric razor ALWAYS shave in the morning. I had a guy in my platoon fined $500 for not shaving properly and not shaving in the morning!


----------



## Armymedic

And to pull the thread back on topic...

and during those 6 months of the year you were in the field, were you required to shave regularly, if not daily?

The only time we were not required to shave daily was during artic ex, because facial hair helped reduce frostbite. This is the only occasison where we were encouraged not to shave.

On another tangent, why do people insist on growing sideburns down past the middle of the ear? Does that 1/2 to full inch of extra hair really mean you look more stylish?


----------



## KevinB

Armymedic said:
			
		

> On another tangent, why do people insist on growing sideburns down past the middle of the ear? Does that 1/2 to full inch of extra hair really mean you look more stylish?



  yeah


----------



## Roger

I remember SR NCO's in the early 70's had great big mustaches, for parades they would wax them to meet regulation, I remember one MWO that had huge handle bars. I think this tradition is a old one. And has is more of a personal mater than mission or any other reason, I know that when I ride my motorcycle it stops the flies from going in my mouth and I get really neat ice hanging off of it in the winter.


----------



## Britney Spears

I always thought "Care and Maintainance of Moustache, Handlebar, 75mm C1A1" was a PO check on the DP7A*/MWO course?




*Or whatever the number is, I don't know, I'll worry about it when I get there.....


----------



## paracowboy

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Does that 1/2 to full inch of extra hair really mean you look more stylish?


 yup. Along with a pompadour and ducktail.


----------



## GO!!!

I must say though, for a moment yesterday, I believed that I had warped into a paralell universe when I distinctly heard the following;

Sgt: Pte _____, did you shave this morning?

Pte: Yes Sgt!

Sgt: YOU IDIOT - what did I tell you yesterday - what did the CSM make abundantly clear in orders - WHAT!?

Pte: That there was to be no shaving or haircuts until told otherwise Sgt!

Sgt: That's right! If I see you with clean shaven face again - you'll be crewing the silver sub! (duty desk)


----------



## Armymedic

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I must say though, for a moment yesterday, I believed that I had warped into a paralell universe when I distinctly heard the following;



And please do tell the context of this conversation?


----------



## GO!!!

Armymedic said:
			
		

> And please do tell the context of this conversation?



New direction from the LFC, we are supposed to reflect canadian society in EVERY aspect. No more shaving or haircuts, the gym has been locked and half the Bn is on double rations until they achieve an accurate representation of the Canadian public. And you would'nt believe what happens at 4:20....

Just kidding. We are preparing to be enemey force for the upcoming event in Wx. ;D


----------



## JimmyPeeOn

GO!!! said:
			
		

> And in regards to the "western, mountain man" way of doing things, sigs guys grow bellies all the time, we grow moustaches on tour. Same $hit, different pile - right


Hahahaha!!! ;D...You've got your competitions, we have ours. 8).  In all due seriousness thouugh.  I've been shaving everyday for about 4 1/2 months now with all the poo dust and dryness.  I could use a break.  Besides, if the NBC threat was high enough to dictate me "having a proper seal" : I think it would also dictate me to carry my mask.  I'm gonna go shave with some paint thinner, see if i can't get that chit I'm after. 

Cheers;
Andrew


----------



## Armymedic

GO!!! said:
			
		

> New direction from the LFC, we are supposed to reflect canadian society in EVERY aspect. No more shaving or haircuts, the gym has been locked and half the Bn is on double rations until they achieve an accurate representation of the Canadian public. And you would'nt believe what happens at 4:20....



Oh, I see, thought you'd save some bandwith by combining 2 threads: shaving and fatties...good call.


----------



## SoF

I sometimes get razor burn on the neck area, doesn't look as bad as it feels. Just don't put on aftershave in that area or you're asking for a hurtin'. I'm hunting for a straight razor but can't seem to find any stores that sell them.


----------



## Glorified Ape

SoF said:
			
		

> I sometimes get razor burn on the neck area, doesn't look as bad as it feels. Just don't put on aftershave in that area or you're asking for a hurtin'. I'm hunting for a straight razor but can't seem to find any stores that sell them.



Same here - there are plenty of places to buy online but I haven't seen any straight razors in stores in my area.


----------



## Infanteer101

This is something that was brought up on my QL2 a few years back and shaving was something everyone dreaded to do...especially when you have maybe 20 minutes in the morning to sh**, shave, get dressed, get downstairs (no time to shower) in a couple of sinks with 6 or 7 other guys who have to do it at the same time as you. So, the instructors put it up the chain and got a doctor to talk to us on the weekend. He said two things and they worked for everyone very well and has been for years especially when you are shaving every day like clockwork (unless deployed on NBCD or LRP when you look like a bag of hammers anyways):

1) DO NOT shave against (upwards) your beard grains as it disrupt your facial pores and can cause chronic razor burn (and it looks worse than just "redness" after shaving and can cause infection). The best thing to do is use warm NOT hot water as hot water dries your skin excessively (especially in the winter) and the razor tends to take off small chunks of your face in the process, leaving you looking like a someone coming down with chicken pox. Also when shaving, shave sideways (except for the neck which should be shaved in a downwards motion) and neither up or down because shaving down does not always clear the grains and shaving up causes damage.

2) After shaving, the best aftershave moisturiser to use is Nivea as it is fairly mild and you don't go running out, screaming like a headless chicken.

3) If you are new to shaving everyday, don't head over to the MIR at the first sight of razorburn. It is natural for your face to get adjusted to the shaving regimen between 7-10 days and yes the daily KILL BILL bleeding does stop. Just remember to not keep using the same old razor for weeks on end and you don't have to go out and buy a Mach 4 Champion or a Shick Quattro 4 (as the excessive number of blades are NOT suited to all skin types and a really close shave everyday is NOT for your skin good everyday, especially when you shave daily), leave the cylinders to cars and the Speed Channel. The best razor to have is a twin blade and the Gillette senor and sensor excel does the trick very well and their blades remain sharp for up to two weeks (for me anyways). 

PS: You won't get in sh** for razorburn on training but you WILL get it if you don't shave and if I still remember correctly it will cost you a $50.00 charge each time they catch you unshaven w/out a chit which gets max'd at time 3 and after that you are put before the man and well...  

Hope that helps!

Cheers


----------



## BKells

Ummm so this.. friend of mine... yeah this friend of mine, he was watching "Queer Eye For The Straight Guy" and they had some huge explanation about how it's so much better to shave after your shower then before. Showering opens your pores and blah blah to your skin and it's just better.

But.. it was my friend that saw it..


----------



## medic31

I dont advocate this as a sure fire way to avoid the problem you're having but.............consider shaving at night. Make it the last thing you do before lights out. If you're really baby faced this might work for you. Remember (as already pointed out) shaving strips away your skins natural oils. Having those couple of hours at night to let your face "rest" might mean you wont look like you were assaulted. However, if your staff catch you employing this method........its game over.

To address the "not shaving" criteria......... The medical term for chronic razor burn is Folliculitis Barbae. Again this isnt whats going with your face if you are new to shaving everyday. But it can "potentialy" be a condition for which you "may" be excused shaving. Keep in mind that only a medical officer can write a chit excusing you shaving on an ongoing basis. In my experience the period is usually for 30 days. On day 29 or 30 you would shave and then be reassessed to see if the rest period has improved your condition.


----------



## LordVagabond

I have a question that I did a search for and couldn't find the answer for...

I mostly shave either with electric tri-head (which probably wouldn't be allowed at BMQ) or with a straight razor (old fashioned fold-out kind that you strop first before shaving) as it's gentler on my skin than a regular modern style shaving system (I have no idea WHY). Now, I know that those straight razors can be considered weapons, so my question is would I be allowed to use my straight razor or am I SOL and use a modern shaver?

I ask because I have a skin condition where my facial skin is more oily than my the rest of my body, and the straight razor with some good shave soap and a brush strips less oil away. I get HUGE razor burn from modern shavers, and I've tried everything I can think of to get my skin ready for basic. I am concerned because the razor burn is really harsh, to the point of massive itching and distraction, and I really want to be able to concentrate and pay attention during basic without my neck screaming at me.

I get the feeling that the answer will be "suck it up buttercup" and modern-shavers only, but if one does not ask, one will never know


----------



## George Wallace

In most cases you will be allowed to take either razor to your Crse.  If in doubt ask the Crse Instructors/Staff.  Every Course and its Staff will be different.  What you can do on one, you may not be allowed on another.  

There are numerous causes and remedies for Razor Burn.  Some people can't use After-Shave lotion, without breaking out in a rash.  Some must shave before a shower, or face having a rash.  Never shave before going out into the Arctic cold.  

I am sure, by now, you have experimented enough to have found your own solution.


----------



## Sig_Des

Buddy in my section used a straight razor on BMQ/SQ in Shilo summer of '04.

No problems from course staff for him, other than being made fun off. Had to keep everything clean and inspection ready as the rest of us.

The best part, was that the soap he used tended to leave these little fluffs on his face, and I remember having to do so many push-ups for laughing when the MasterJack looks at him, and asked if he'd been having oral sex with the Drying machine


----------



## gnplummer421

Shaving is the least of your worries, just get on with it. The other guys in your platoon or whatever they call it these days will look after you. I can't believe you could on that long about shaving...can you imagine if we talked about losing your virginity? Oops, I hope I didn't plant a seed 

Gnplummer


----------



## LordVagabond

Well, I asked because I've been denied taking a straight razor some places... just wanted to make sure


----------



## Military-Dude

Yeah for razer burn, well my first expereinces with shaveing were terrible none thought me how so my first couple times were dry shaves.. now that makes you have razor burn! but i found out after that (when i started using shaving oils) that i never get razor burn anymore sometimes some irritation but rarely, I don't know try shaveing oils and see if that helps.


----------



## gnplummer421

Yup, straightrazor could be used as a weapon or a way to commit suicide if you get bummed out during the course. It would be taken away from you on the first day of Basic, along with any other contraband. Don't know if the rules have changed, but in my Basic, we all shaved with the same type of razor which was a double bladed throw away. Anyhoo, it didn't matter if you never shaved before or shaved everyday, everybody shaved in the morning regardless. I'm sure if you go to the medics and explain your dilemma, some resolution can be achieved.


----------



## Synthos

A gerber could be used as a suicide assistance weapon... How would a straight razor be any different?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Whether or not it's any different, if they say no to it, that's it. Good way to get off on the wrong foot with your instructors, start arguing with them over a razor, first day there. :

BTW, if your flying, don't put it in your carry on. Security will confiscate it.


----------



## alexanderhabibi

BIOTHERM .. comes in a square bottle... about 20 something bucks from shoppers drugmart in the cosmetic section... works awesome and helps prevent you from getting rasor burn in the future whether you use it everytime or not


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Shave using unscented baby oil, instead of foam or soap. Same as shaving oil, but way cheaper.


----------



## ThatsLife

Well, i'm back from BMQ..sadly I VR'd for a personal reason...I did some thinking and I think I made a bad move quitting highschool to join the Army..I should have just waited till I graduated. The guy who interviewed me even said.."I strongly, STRONGLY encourage you to graduate, give me your word that you will graduate sometime in your life". So i'm going to graduate and go back to BMQ after summer  ^-^

Alright so now that we got that little story out of the way.

Shaving.

Don't lie to your instructors about shaving in the morning because they can spot a piece of stubble from down the hall and it will just make you look bad in the end. The trick is honesty--I learned that the hard way when I was in the PAT Platoon office and I had forgotten to shave that morning. Having two Master Seamen inspecting your face on both sides of you, laughing at you and telling you to go to the bathroom and shave with whatever you can find is not a good way of leaving an impression 

Next.

Before I arrived to St.Jean, I always use to shave with an electric razor. The new routine of shaving every morning with a 'manual' razor was brutal for me. My face bled, my neck was red for hours, I started to get skin bumps which I cut open every morning while shaving...my advice is simple:

Learn how to shave.

The last thing you want is your face to start sweating during your morning PT and irritating your face the whole morning.


I have a tip for everyone who will be attending the next winter BMQ. When you have razor burn and you're doing pushups outside in -30 degree weather with your hands in a puddle of slush...everytime you go down for a push up, lay each side of your face on the ice, it helps.


----------



## The_Falcon

AlHab said:
			
		

> BIOTHERM .. comes in a square bottle... about 20 something bucks from shoppers drugmart in the cosmetic section... works awesome and helps prevent you from getting rasor burn in the future whether you use it everytime or not



Unscented Lubriderm/Keri Lotion is much cheaper and you can get it in large tubes. Doesn't matter if you use an electric shaver or razor blades, just wash all the shaving cream/electric preshave lotion off your face pat dry and apply just enough lotion on you finger tips to spread an even thin layer of of the stuff around neck/problem areas.  Keeps the follicles soft and helps replenish your skins natural moisture.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

My $0.02

1.  I have always shaved IN the shower.  If you have been shaving for a while, you don't really need a mirror do you?  The water stream does a better job of flushing out the blades than a tap I find.  
2.  Splurge and buy good razors.  I know the Mach 3's are expensive, but I find I can get 20+ shaves out of them and I have a fairly thick moustache/goatee area.  When they get a bit dull, ditch them right away.  
3.  MY BIG SECRET:  I have always used womens shave gel to shave with.  I'm sure that puts me under H.S. but I can take it.  The womens products have additives like vitamin E and aloe that are both good for skin that is prone to razor burn.  Plus, if you are shaving in the shower (see #1) and wash your body after you shave, you will scrub off any unmanly scent that may be with the product.  And unlike any other womens products [hrm, that I only buy for my wife, cough, cough]  it seems to be cheaper than mens shave gel.  

When I was in the field, I used sun tan lotion.  It felt like I was rubbing turpentine into my raw face, but it also has the excellent side effect of making cam stick come off like a bris.  Then you also don't have to carry a pressurized cannister of goo in your kit that will almost guaranteed open and deploy on your kit at the worst possible time.


----------



## SoF

I may just upgrade my mach 3 to the new Gilette Fusion, 5 frickin blades! ;D  http://www.gillette.com/men/index_fusion.htm


----------



## Synthos

the more blades there are, the cheaper quality blades they are


----------



## SoF

They don't make that much money from the shaver, they make most of the money from the replacement blades which always cost a fortune


----------



## Hansol

hey, stupid question:

I took the advice here and went out and bought shaving "cream" (junk that looks like toothpaste), instead of a pressurized can of say "gillette shave gel". That being said, on my kit list for BMQ it says "Shaving cream, can". Now, will my having this tube of shaving cream instead of a can be a big deal? or is it just symantics? Cheers -Cameron


----------



## aesop081

Hansol said:
			
		

> hey, stupid question:
> 
> I took the advice here and went out and bought shaving "cream" (junk that looks like toothpaste), instead of a pressurized can of say "gillette shave gel". That being said, on my kit list for BMQ it says "Shaving cream, can". Now, will my having this tube of shaving cream instead of a can be a big deal? or is it just symantics? Cheers -Cameron



Go buy a can....leave it in your locker layout and never use it.  Stash the tube and use that !!


----------



## Hansol

lol thanks Aesop. Always with the timely replies to my stupid questions.


----------



## Synthos

SoF said:
			
		

> Lol I'v always wondered how many blades they'll put on that thing. I used to think they would stop after 3.



Number of blades is something that people can quantify and attemp to relate to the quality of the shave the razor will give.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Has anyone actually used the ones with the batteries in them that are supposed to give off a magnetic field?  I think that transcends the definition of useless technology.  I suppose eventually there will be a razor made of hundreds of tiny lasers that zap each hair to below the surface FOR THE ULTIMATE SHAVE!!! [Insert rugged tool with full makeup supermodel fawning over him]


----------



## Steve031

I shaved with an electric razor every morning of BIQ, right before PT.  It takes about 3 minutes which left 2 minutes to make it outside.  i slept in my PT gear on top of my bed as often as possible.  Keep the electric razor in your civvie locker and have an inspection set of shave kit just in case (our locker layout was almost never inspected on BIQ).  I'm not sure if this plan would work at St. Jean, but perhaps later when you're under less supervision in the morning.


----------



## Quag

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Has anyone actually used the ones with the batteries in them that are supposed to give off a magnetic field?  I think that transcends the definition of useless technology.  I suppose eventually there will be a razor made of hundreds of tiny lasers that zap each hair to below the surface FOR THE ULTIMATE SHAVE!!! [Insert rugged tool with full makeup supermodel fawning over him]



I have that razor.  The technology behind it is that it vibrates and gives off ultrasonic waves which raise the hair off the skin to get a closer shave.  I don't find it has a difference from any other razor.  I think it's mostly a placebo effect.


----------



## SweetNavyJustice

This may sound crazy, but honestly it works!  After you shave, use a bit of baby powder.  It stops the razor burn and gets rid of the pimples, and ingrown hairs.  

GO Navy!


----------



## Hot Lips

Well I must say I have never spent so much time reading about Men's razor burn.  While being female that is a rare occurrence and certainly not observable on inspection.  I have attached a link and hope this helps.  
I was taught to shave men at the start of my education as a nurse and I have never caused anyone razor burn.  Any who here goes  

http://www.ezinearticles.com/?Razor-Burn---Seven-Tips-On-How-To-Prevent-It&id=76


Hot Lips


----------



## atticus

Quag said:
			
		

> I have that razor.  The technology behind it is that it vibrates and gives off ultrasonic waves which raise the hair off the skin to get a closer shave.  I don't find it has a difference from any other razor.  I think it's mostly a placebo effect.



I always get razor bumps in the same part on my neck, but when I use one of those vibrating razors the irritation isn't as bad and the redness isn't as noticable. I doubt you'd notice a difference though if you didn't have shaving problems.


----------



## Centurian1985

Every single course, the instructors deal with kids who think that they have found a new way to 'fool the guards'.  Watch 'An officer and a  gentleman' for lessons on what happens when the con gets found it!

You can fool them with the old 'bait and switch routine', having a 'show' razor and a used one hidden away, bu they will find it eventually.  I recommend disposables, and lots of them.      

Electric razors work for those with fuzzy down, but those with darker beards will find themselves using razors to avoid getting 'pepperoni breath' from an outraged instructor. Also difficult to clean if they insist you put it on display for inspection. IMO, only good if you get the battery-operated ones for use on the field. 

Hint 1: already mentioned, use a lubricated gel for sensitive skin.
Hint 2: buy a proper razor! most of that cheap junk will tear your face up after weeks of shaving. No Bics or other bargain basement brands. I recommend Schick ST twin blades, disposable and good steel (also prefered by my wife when she shaves her legs, haha).

- Apologies for brand name use, the person promoting this product is in no way related to the company.


----------



## SoF

I was down in the states yesterday and bought myself a gilette fusion ;D. It was $8 or $9 and came with a free travel case and 2 blades (one attached to the handle), manuel version ofcourse as I think the battery opperated ones are useless. At $14 for a 4pack of replacement blades I'll have to stretch out these 2 blades throughout basic. Anyone know yet as to when the fusion will be released in Canada?


----------



## TCBF

"#2 Always shave in the direction of the hair growth"

- This always kills me - what the heck do they think we are shaving?  Our bloody legs?  The hair on our faces grows in the direction of "Out"   As in: 'the hair starts below the skin - inside the body - and grows "Out." '  Will someone please enlighten us poor baboons how we can shave from "In" to "Out" without commiting seppuku in the process?

Tom


----------



## The_Falcon

TCBF said:
			
		

> "#2 Always shave in the direction of the hair growth"
> 
> - This always kills me - what the heck do they think we are shaving?  Our bloody legs?  The hair on our faces grows in the direction of "Out"   As in: 'the hair starts below the skin - inside the body - and grows "Out." '  Will someone please enlighten us poor baboons how we can shave from "In" to "Out" without commiting seppuku in the process?
> 
> Tom



You shave in the direction of the grain, to find the grain, don't shave for a 2-3 days, run your hand up and down your face and neck, the hair should feel rougher when you are moving against the grain


----------



## Fishbone Jones

I have always gone against the grain (much as I've lived my life  ;D). It gives a much closer shave, and in 38 years of doing it, I've never had a problem.


----------



## Sparkplugs

Just curious, in my BMQ joining package, it says I am not allowed to bring a disposable razor, is this a new thing?  

Is there actually time to be leg-shaving at basic?


----------



## George Wallace

Just out of curiosity - do you have a "male" or "female" checklist, or is it generic?  I am sure you can bring Neet or some other product to fill the bill.


----------



## Sparkplugs

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> Depends on how good you are in your time appreciations??    ;D
> 
> How come no disposables??  I had them in Basic (ok, that WAS in '89 though...I just dated myself)



Dunno...  Just says on the sheet, 1 razor, no disposables.  I bought one of the mach 3's with some spare blades.  Not a big deal if there's no time for leg shaving, heh, I'm not too concerned about having yeti legs.  Besides, might be warmer if I was on a winter BMQ, hehe.

George Wallace--  It's a generic list, now that I looked at it more carefully, d'oh!  I think I'm quicker with a razor than I am with Neet though, and Neet doesn't do the armpits so well, hehe.  Now that's a little too much information, I'm sure.


----------



## Warvstar

For men, I would recommend the straight edge.
http://www.menessentials.com/oxid.php/sid/x/shp/oxbaseshop/cl/info/tpl/straight_razors.tpl


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Has anyone ever heard of a man getting laser hair removal for his face?  I'm curious if the hair would be too thick, or if it could be done once and have done with 'er.  I know for myself I have no interest in ever sporting a full beard.  If I could leave the goatee and moustache, and zap the rest, I wouldn't have to bother with it but every three weeks when I trim it.


----------



## Sparkplugs

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever heard of a man getting laser hair removal for his face?  I'm curious if the hair would be too thick, or if it could be done once and have done with 'er.  I know for myself I have no interest in ever sporting a full beard.  If I could leave the goatee and moustache, and zap the rest, I wouldn't have to bother with it but every three weeks when I trim it.



You'll usually end up paying an average of 900-1400$ for just the face, and it's not guaranteed permanent.  It can take up to 5 or 6 applications.  If the hair on your face is pale, sometimes it won't work, because the laser is only really good at differentiating between light and dark.  If your hair and skin colour are similar, you can end up with discoloured patches on the face.

(I looked into this for my legs, but since my leg hair is very blond, it was not a viable option)

There's also electrolysis, which can also be permanent and doesn't have as many complications.


----------



## ArmyDave

Warvstar said:
			
		

> For men, I would recommend the straight edge.
> http://www.menessentials.com/oxid.php/sid/x/shp/oxbaseshop/cl/info/tpl/straight_razors.tpl



I'm just curious, why?  I've always considering trying it but I really can't see a reason to justify an attempt.  According to the article it's basically just for the "manly" image and apparently a closer shave.

I currently use a gillette fusion and I shave with the grain to remove the bulk, then against the grain for a closer shave.


----------



## Craignum2

You've just answered you're question...a straight razor gives you a closer shave...it can last up to a day or two longer if you know how to shave properly with a straight edge. I'm gonna find one myself and give it a try. The trick is not to sink the blade into your face...ouch.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

I used one for a couple of years and you can get just as close a shave with today's multi blade razors. If your going to try a straight razor (a straight edge is a ruler), make sure you have a styptic(look it up) pencil handy cause your gonna cut yourself.


----------



## Hot Lips

recceguy said:
			
		

> I used one for a couple of years and you can get just as close a shave with today's multi blade razors. If your going to try a straight razor (a straight edge is a ruler), make sure you have a styptic(look it up) pencil handy cause your gonna cut yourself.


And styptic pencils burn like nobody's business...but they work great ;D

HL


----------



## iconn

Hey, one suggestion for anyone is don't buy shaving gel, think inspections people, gel bleeds through and you get hit on inspections, to help stop razor burn just don't push when you shave and go with the grain. Anyhow by the end of your last field exercise, all the dry shaving will have your your face toughened up lol. But I'm serious, don't go with shaving gel use cream, and if razor burn is bad MIR can give you medicated aftershaves which help get rid of it. or see a dermatologist before you go.

Jaime Birks
NCdt
MARS


----------



## Wright

Inch said:
			
		

> They're not animals, they're not going to jack you up for razor burn. If they find out you put on makeup, man it's all over.
> In the words of my first troop commander, "Suck it up Buttercup"
> 
> Cheers


agreed, very much agreed, use fresh razor everyday, and damn hot water, no damn makeup, that is chargeable i believe if u r a guy, or go get a chit that lets u use electric razor everyother day if it gets bad enuf, i know a couple of guys from my BMQ had that cuz they kept cutting and cutting the razor burn until it got infected. just dont become a sick bay ranger or MIR sStar


----------



## tlg

Now what about the people that have the facial hair growth of a 10 year old, like me?


----------



## Michael OLeary

tlg said:
			
		

> Now what about the people that have the facial hair growth of a 10 year old, like me?



The question you will be asked is _"Did you shave today?"_, not _"Did you need to shave today?"_.


----------



## SoF

tlg said:
			
		

> Now what about the people that have the facial hair growth of a 10 year old, like me?



If you have a baby face then you're lucky. Shaving in the morning will be one less thing you have to do while at basic. Yes the instructors will tell everyone to shave regardless but those in my platoon who didn't have to shave never or rarely did. If you have a bit of growth you can shave at night to save time in the morning. 

As for me my beard chit got approved yesterday. My beard (or pearch fuzz) will be inspected in 2 weeks by the cox'n to see wheather I can continue to grow it. I thought they give you a month before they inspect it....


----------



## navymich

SoF said:
			
		

> As for me my beard chit got approved yesterday. My beard (or pearch fuzz) will be *inspected in 2 weeks * by the cox'n to see wheather I can continue to grow it. I thought they give you a month before they inspect it....



Any ship I've been on, the coxn has inspected the guys with cease shaving chits after 2 weeks.  Their reasoning was that they would know by then whether it was a hopeless cause or not, and tell the member to call it quits and resume shaving.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

tlg said:
			
		

> Now what about the people that have the facial hair growth of a 10 year old, like me?



Then you should shave it anyway, because guys with pubic hair on their face look ridiculous.  If that is the only evidence you have that you have reached puberty, you have bigger issued to deal with.   
Just shave.  How bad can it be?  
And if you really want to look all burly and stuff, shaving will make your beard come in thicker.  Personally, I wish I could go back to not having to shave.  If I want to be clean shaven at night that's me having to shave twice that day.  I should have been waxing my yap from the beginning.


----------



## orange.paint

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> And if you really want to look all burly and stuff, shaving will make your beard come in thicker.  Personally, I wish I could go back to not having to shave.  If I want to be clean shaven at night that's me having to shave twice that day.  I should have been waxing my yap from the beginning.



Same here.I was 17 in basic and even though I didnt have to it was stated to me that you will shave every morning so I went through the motions every morning.Now at noon I have a beard poking through and rough.On leave....man what a beard!


----------



## TN2IC

I wonder if the military will pay for laser hair removal, just an idea.


----------



## Michael OLeary

TN2IC said:
			
		

> I wonder if the military will pay for laser hair removal, just an idea.



Sure, some time after laser eye surgery.


----------



## GGHG_Cadet

I was just wondering while we're on the topic of facial hair, how come some members of the army can grow beards and not have to shave? They do not appear to be Sikh or Pioneers.


----------



## George Wallace

GGHG_Cadet said:
			
		

> I was just wondering while we're on the topic of facial hair, how come some members of the army can grow beards and not have to shave? They do not appear to be Sikh or Pioneers.



It is called 'allergies' or in some cases another sever medical condition.  They have allergies to shaving cream, aftershave, razors, or some other item used in the process of shaving.  I could go on as to how some of these come to happen, but it is not ethical.  Medical Staff know what the reasons are and will prescribe a remedy.


----------



## niceasdrhuxtable

GGHG_Cadet said:
			
		

> I was just wondering while we're on the topic of facial hair, how come some members of the army can grow beards and not have to shave? They do not appear to be Sikh or Pioneers.



They're probably on medical chit due to skin iritations from regular shaving.


----------



## geo

Off the cuff, people authorized to wear beards...
Pioneers (trade disco)
Sailors
Sikhs (you can ID them by their turbans

possibly Shiite muslims (have been out of units for a couple of years but, if the Sikhs can wear a beard for religious reasons, Shiites should also qualify)

then there are the ones with facial problems


----------



## niner domestic

Finally.. I get to say it....


It's good to be a female! 


Ok, seriously.. if your face is apt to peeling layers of skin after a shave, then get yourself some (no laughing guys) Butt Paste (Shoppper's Drug Mart carries it) and apply it sparingly to your delicate cheeks (face ones).  The Butt Paste has boric acid in it as well as zinc oxide which promotes fast healing and protects the skin.  

Someone asked about straight razors? You can get them at any Crabtree and Evelyn store.  The one I bought DH was about 98.00 CDN and the store just ordered it in for me. DH loves it, nice balanced handle (apparently as important as having a nicely balanced knife..lol), and stays sharp.


----------



## geo

well... didn't Shanaia Twain use some sort of "udder balm/cream" to keep her peachy complexion


----------



## elecgitarguy

are you allowed to use an electric razor in BMQ?


----------



## BernDawg

Go ahead...  If you want to get jacked up!!  Despite the advertising they DO NOT  shave close enough.


----------



## SoF

elecgitarguy said:
			
		

> are you allowed to use an electric razor in BMQ?



Go for it but you'll be the only guy in your platoon with an electric razor, that and you'll still need to buy a shaver to pass locker inspections.


----------



## gnome123

bah razor burn... sure your not just shaving against the grain? lol OUCH if so...  :-\


----------



## Quag

I was once told to take a step closer to my razor in the morning.  I asked what that means and the friendly Sgt. said shave against the grain if you have to, this is basic not a beauty pageant.

Point in case, I shaved against the grain and I received major burning and ingrown hairs for about a month.  Then my skin got used to it, and I live happily ever after.

~Quag


----------



## Bergeron 971

Here's the best thing since toothpaste.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442618047&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302695889&bmUID=1161101745314

Sold at the PPCLI kitship I believe.
Used by many US personnel.
No clean up no gunk to clean up after.
Less to carry into the bush.

Edit: Won't freeze like shaving cream in winter.


----------



## Quag

Hmm.. that looks interesting...

How do you use it?  I assume you put a few drops on your razor blade?  It says 15mL lasts 100 shaves.  Thats pretty good bang for the buck!


----------



## chrisf

I used to get nasty razor burn, switched to different razors (Gillette Mach 3) and different shaving cream (Gillette for Sensitive Skin) no problems now.

Reference the shaving oil, you wet your hands, put a few drops onto your hands, then rub it on your face. I've got a bottle in my shaving kit, it's good stuff, also hasn't caused me razor burn. Works well in the winter as well, when aerosol shaving cream freezes.


----------



## Signalman150

Okay, I admit: I didn't wade through every single post on this thread...but I'll throw in my two cents at the risk of going over something that's already been covered. 

When I joined (infantry) in 1975, I got nasty razor burn, regardless of whether it was electric or a safety razor.  I got a chit fm the MO to "cease shaving".  My instructors were NOT terribly thrilled, but they accepted it gracefully. 

The one major concern of course was NBCD training: how well was I going to get a respirator seal?  As it turned out, by keeping the beard short (i.e. whisker length of about a 1/4") I managed to achieve enough of a seal--for CS gas anyway--that it was no problem.  My cheeks and under my chin itched  where the mask sealed for a couple of days after doing the training, but it was nothing compared to the misery of the shaving rash.

As the years went by, my hide toughened up enough that when I finally took the beard off, it was okay.  So, for those who have this problem--LEGITIMATELY--I recommend the no shave chit.  You're going to have enough on yr plate w/out fussing over minor crap.


----------



## IrishCanuck

I imagine the razor burn thing is only a problem when you are on BMQ or in field with limited time, water, cream to shave with?


----------



## Mayhem911

I know that my skin will pay the price during basic, I've never shaved every day, more like every second day. But hey, I had a good idea what I was getting into when I signed up so I'll deal with it. I just can not believe this thing has gone on for this long. I guess I'm not helping the matter with this post eh...lol


----------



## Sc011y

I just use an electric razor... On garrison that isn't a problem (I don't grow much facial hair anyways...  ???) and in the field, if its a tactical EX, I've often found that they don't care if you shave, so the noisy razor isn't really a problem.


----------



## kratz

If water is short or if I'm in a hurry, I just dry shave (without cream) and slap on some face balm. I find it provides a quick, no hassel close shave.


----------



## Pte. Perry

He he....never thought razor burn could bring out so many comments. So here's mine: Use a sharp razor, always. Oh, and one other thing (maybe someone seniors already said it): It might be bad to get jacked up for not shaving, but its even worse when you get jacked up for having shaving cream on your face. ;D


----------



## Mayhem911

Krats, I really dont know if my face would ever let me get away with that...lol Hopfully I never have to find out


----------



## Sig_Des

Pte. Perry said:
			
		

> It might be bad to get jacked up for not shaving, but its even worse when you get jacked up for having shaving cream on your face. ;D



Right...Except for the fact that you can be charged for not shaving.... The worst you'd get for having shaving cream on your face is maybe a bruised ego. Don't give bad advice


----------



## Pte. Perry

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Right...Except for the fact that you can be charged for not shaving.... The worst you'd get for having shaving cream on your face is maybe a bruised ego. Don't give bad advice



Wow, didn't think anyone would take this personally, it was mostly just advice saying make sure you wash your face afterwards.


----------



## aesop081

Pte. Perry said:
			
		

> Wow, didn't think anyone would take this personally, it was mostly just advice saying make sure you wash your face afterwards.



He's not taking it prsonaly, you were just out to lunch that's all.......


----------



## Sig_Des

Pte. Perry said:
			
		

> Wow, didn't think anyone would take this personally, it was mostly just advice saying make sure you wash your face afterwards.



It isn't personal. If your advice is to make sure to wash your face after, come out and say it. It's a good tidbit.

The problem is that a lot of people will take things they read here to heart, and I don't want anyone getting charged or jacked up because they understood the wrong thing.



			
				cdnaviator said:
			
		

> He's not taking it prsonaly, you were just out to lunch that's all.......



 :rofl:


----------



## SoF

Well my beard chit didn't go through  so I'm back to the blade. Only 2 weeks had gone by and they expected me to have a mane for a first time beard.


----------



## geo

Don't know what all the fuss is about.
Have used an electric shaver for some 30  years.  Quick clean up with a dry blade right after & it keeps my face as smooth as a baby's ...... (or so my wife says )

In the field.... same as above unless here are sound constraints - else, a bit of soap, water & my Shick Quatro


----------



## MEV

If you shave with a razor and shaving creme ...Make sure you shave first and then have your shower. 

I used to shave first, go for PT and then shower. That way you don't get picked up on morning inspection with having shaving creme on your face and you have a good shave.


----------



## geo

for the most part..... 
On course, you roll out of bed drop into your runners and do PT. Come back from PT, do the 3 S' and head out for breakfast.
In the unit, PT is either/or/and beginning of day, end of day, whenever there is time to waste........


----------



## Trinity

Part 1 JLC - didn't need to shave on pt

part 2 JLC - different course - we did   :

basic - me,  young 19 year old.....

Did you shave pte?

Is my face still bleeding sgt?


----------



## SoF

Anyone looking for cheap straight razors should check this link out. For $5 you're obviously getting what you paid for but for a newbie to straight razors it's an excellent buy before spending a $100 or more on a decent one. It's mainly a knife website but they carry a few low priced razors.
http://www.trueswords.com/white-razor-p-980.html


----------



## Mike Baker

Okay, something new (but *NOT* funny). What is your favorite type of razor? Mine is the Gillette Fusion. Awesome shave. *




Yes, I _can_ shave


----------



## larry Strong

Been using "Gillette Sensor" for years.


----------



## safeboy43

Mike_Baker said:
			
		

> Mine is the Gillette Fusion. Awesome shave. *


+1, Mike. Gillette Fusion all the way!  ;D


----------



## Mike Baker

Twitch said:
			
		

> +1, Mike. Gillette Fusion all the way!  ;D


Yeah I like it a lot.


----------



## geo

Heh.... when in garrison, I use an electric - with a quick (dry) finish up with a Schick Quatro.


----------



## warspite

For me anything not electric.... I hate electric shavers and have never been able to get a good shave with one.

As for what I'm using right now, Schick Xtreme3 ;D


----------



## Mike Baker

Electric ones suck, can't stand them.


----------



## stealthylizard

I've been a user of Mach 3 since it came out, absolutely loved it, and still do (when I actually shave  : ).  I tried the Quattro once but with quite a bit of facial scruff at the time, and found the blades became too clogged up too fast.  I might have decided differently had I tried using it daily.  The only electric shavers I have tried are the ones with a foil, and can't deal with them.  Faster to do it with a blade and shaving cream, and actually see what has been cut.  So far I haven't tried the triple headed electric ones, the initial cost seems too much for not knowing how they will perform.


----------



## kratz

I agree with stealthylizard's comments. I use the Mach 3 for a normal shave. Over the years, I have used electric razors and found the result substandard. I have tried many of the other blades on the market and they do not seem to meet what I want from a shave. 

The worst blades I find are the cheap disposable ones.  :threat: If I wanted to cut my face all up, I would use a straight blade.


----------



## Mike Baker

I don't want to try a straight blade, I would die from blood loss


----------



## stealthylizard

Only time I have done the straight blade routine was at the barber shop (do they even do them anymore? lol).  Best shave in the world, but I wouldn't want to attempt it myself.


----------



## kratz

With those cheap disposable blades, I need four to six of them to finish my morning shave, and all of them are garbage after one shave. With 4 -6 blades wearing out so fast, yes I would risk using a straight balde on my own. It seems safer.

After using Mach 3, I can reuse a balde for up to 1.5 weeks before needing to replace it.


----------



## big_johnson1

Barber shop I used to go to did the back of the neck with a straight razor. Smooth and it lasted a long time.

For the face I alternate between a Mach 3 when I'm not shaving every day, or an electric Phillips when I am shaving daily.. I find the electric takes my face about a week to get used to when I haven't used it for a while, but once I've gotten used to it again it is as quick and as accurate as the Mach 3. I figured if someone was nice enough to get me an expensive electric razor for Christmas I might as well learn to use it  ;D


----------



## Danjanou

Mike_Baker said:
			
		

> Okay, something new (but *NOT* funny). What is your favorite type of razor? Mine is the Gillette Fusion. Awesome shave. *



finally started facial hair there eh Mikey. Well that explains the recent name change, our lil baymen is growing up  ;D

Favourite razor- the straight razor used by the little old guy in the barber shop across from my office. 

Nothing really beats a hot towel, straight razor barber shop shave. It's a dying art but there are still a few places in Toronto that do it and every know and then I treat myself. 

In between I'm not particular. There's a brand of no name disposals at the local dollar stores that for some reason I'm partial to and will load up on when they're in stock. I've tried several of the hi end ones and to be honest don't see a real difference. Mind I usually shave in the shower so the beard is well soaked/prepped with steaming hot water. Old fashioned shaving soap and brush of course.

Some days I say the hell with it and go with the Don Johnson Miami Vice look. 8)


----------



## Mike Baker

Danjanou said:
			
		

> finally started facial hair there eh Mikey. Well that explains the recent name change, our lil baymen is growing up  ;D


Naw, I have for over a year now. I changed the name because most, if not all people call me Mike so, why not   And yes, I am growing more, 6'3 now  ;D


----------



## MikeM

Made the switch from the Mach 3 to Fusion and I love the Fusion. Workin out well for me.


----------



## childs56

Those cheap Braun shavers from Canex and then Mach3


----------



## the 48th regulator

I thought you would have said that you got the cleanest shave by using a tweezer Mike_B!

 :rofl:

Mach 3 for me for many a year, sensor before that.  May make the switch to fusion though, by the sounds of things

dileas

tess


----------



## Mike Baker

Guys stop making jokes about my facial hair please. Sheesh  :  

The Mach 3 isnt that bad either.


----------



## medicineman

Bic Advance 3 is what I'm using right now - they aren't too bad, reasonably inexpensive and last awhile.  I do find them a little hard to clean though at times (but hey - they're disposable).

MM


----------



## harry8422

i would have to agree with mikem the fusion is awesome makes my ugly face feel pretty and smooth.


pro patria


----------



## stealthylizard

Do the fusion blades fit in the mach 3 handle?


----------



## mysteriousmind

Mach 3 for me is the only way...no other way...I have tried the fusion...and...I still prefer my good old blue mach 3  8)


----------



## deedster

No razor for me...waxing is the only way to go.  ;D
Oh, did you mean facial hair?  Sorry, can't help you with that one.
But do not, I repeat DO NOT use those razors for your legs  :


----------



## the 48th regulator

D Squared said:
			
		

> No razor for me...waxing is the only way to go.  ;D
> Oh, did you mean facial hair?  Sorry, can't help you with that one.
> But do not, I repeat DO NOT use those razors for your legs  :



Aye Carrumba,

I would give up 48 bracelets to see that argument proven 

yikes I digress....

Mike,

Try putting the blade on the Mach three, they are on the back of the plastic thingy that holds the handle.  You will get those three hairs, and really get a close shave  

dileas

tess


----------



## BernDawg

Gillette Sensor Excel and Wilkinson soap in a dish with a brush.  Nothin' beats it for me and the bonus is that I can transfer it straight to the field if required.  Shaving cream in a can doesn't work below zero. (threw that in for the unwashed that may be reading this  ;D )


----------



## proudnurse

D Squared said:
			
		

> No razor for me...waxing is the only way to go.  ;D
> Oh, did you mean facial hair?  Sorry, can't help you with that one.
> But do not, I repeat DO NOT use those razors for your legs  :



Gillette Venus is not so bad  ;D

~Rebecca


----------



## Mike Baker

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Mike,
> 
> Try putting the blade on the Mach three, they are on the back of the plastic thingy that holds the handle.  You will get those three hairs, and really get a close shave


 : They were on there when it came, and there are more then three hairs  :  sheesh


----------



## Jorkapp

I've used the Mach 3 for years, and I haven't been let down. With daily shaving and decent blade maintenence, I can usually keep the blades good and sharp for a while (my record being 10 weeks) though I usually replace after 3 weeks or so.


----------



## kratz

Dry shaving works in a pinch when needed. I've done it for up to 18 weeks at a time. Though, given a choice I'd rather have the time to use shaving cream for a shave.


----------



## p_imbeault

I still use the Gillete Sensor that my grandpa bought me when I turned 13, although its starting to show some wear and tear I like it. I rarely use shaving soaps or oils, I like to think not using them makes me tougher  ;D


----------



## uptheglens

I actually DO shave with a straight cutthroat razor that takes disposable blades (I tried one you need to sharpen, and that was a disaster). It takes a bit of a knack to get used to it (and occasionally  
having a face that looks like rancid raw ground beef), but damn, you wind up with your skin feeling as smooth as glass once you're done. Just don't sneeze when you use it.


----------



## big_johnson1

And where would one find one of these straight razors?


----------



## DirtyDog

kratz said:
			
		

> Dry shaving works in a pinch when needed. I've done it for up to 18 weeks at a time. Though, given a choice I'd rather have the time to use shaving cream for a shave.



Actaully, for some of us, it absolutely does NOT.  I remember back in my fresh faced days of high school I used to dry shave evry now and then in the morning if I was in a rush.  I recently revisisted that practice a number of times, and it turned out diasastrous.  I can think of few things less enjoyable to do and if in the field, it is another (significant) discomfort.

I cannot for the life of me find an electric razor that works for me.  I've considered going out and buying the most expensive one I can find with the mindest that it would HAVE to work at the price, but I've avoided doing that so far.

I currently use Mach 3's with less then prefect results.  Maybe the first few shaves aren't bad, but after that, it's all down hill.  I would like to hear the poster that spoke of "blade maintenence" offer some tips.  

I suppose I should try the Fusion but I'm not overly optimistic.

Fortunately, up to now, most of my superiors have recognized that I'm one of the "9am shadow" types but I'd still like to get a nice smooth, and COMFORTABLE, shave.

Maybe i just need a "no shaving" chit? >


----------



## Devlin

http://www.theartofshaving.com - good source for all things shaving

We are lucky here in Waterloo there are a couple of places that still do the straight blade shave and it is outstanding for those of you who have never had the pleasure....hot towel , the whole nine yards.


----------



## BernDawg

Hey Feral, check these sites out.

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_store.html?ttl=Straight%20Razors&srch=eqWWWCAT_1datarq%3Dshave%26eqWWWCAT_2datarq%3Dstraight

http://www.bowmanbeauty.com/store/shop.mvc?page=BBS/CTGY/1-6030

Cheers.
Bern


----------



## big_johnson1

Thanks Bern.. They aren't cheap are they.. But there is something pretty cool about a straight razor.. Might have to look into how to do that properly.

Say hi to the boys in the shop for me..


----------



## ROTP Applicant

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> I cannot for the life of me find an electric razor that works for me.  I've considered going out and buying the most expensive one I can find with the mindest that it would HAVE to work at the price, but I've avoided doing that so far.



Try this one out: http://www.braun.com/global/360complete/360complete.html

Although it certainly isn't cheap at $200+, it is the best electric shaver out there. Furthermore, it has a 30-day money back guarantee so you can return it with no questions asked if you're not satisfied with the results.


----------



## Mike Baker

Imbeault said:
			
		

> I rarely use shaving soaps or oils, I like to think not using them makes me tougher ;D


Us manly men never use them   We also eat kippers and beef tongue, so that hardens us more  ;D


----------



## MezzaMorta

Philips Electric that goes in the shower


----------



## BernDawg

Feral, the old crew is gone brother.  I'm the only one left that went to HI (still one of the best ex's I've been on) and I'll be gone this summer.  Comox bound I am, maybe we'll bump into each other on the island sometime.


----------



## Trooper Hale

I cant believe anyone would actually encourage dry shaving! Its just downright painful and leaves you with a raw face with no moisture.
Funnily enough i used the ex-girlyfriends shaver a couple in the shower, it was one of those vibrating ones. Worked a treat! 
I'm a Mach 3 man myself. I went against the trend recently and got myself a 2 blade gillette razor after the shop ran out of mach3 heads, mach3 still cane's it and i dont think i'll ever go anything less that 3 blades.
The straight razors are great too, theres nothing like sitting back and being shaved. Its like the male equivelent to a woman having her nailes done.


----------



## retiredgrunt45

Oxford straight razor for the ones here who are old enough to remember them, bought one in Englnd in 1981 and been using it ever since. I bring it to my barber twice a year to have it sharpened, works fanatastic and leaves your face feeling soooo good and smooth as a baby's behind. Using it takes a bit of a learning curve without cutting up your face a bit, but once you get used to it, you'll never go back.


----------



## niner domestic

Most Cdn cities are now passing health by-laws that require barbers to use straight razors with disposable blades.  Hub says that getting a shave with a straight blade with a disposable isn't quite the same as getting one with a regular blade. (if you can even find a barber nowadays that will still do it)


----------



## TN2IC

I use the Fusion. It has the extra one blade that I more use. It gives that straight razor feeling. Nice and close.

I have a straight razor.. but never really attempt faith yet. First thing is the morning is not for me to do first aid on myself.  ;D


----------



## retiredgrunt45

Most straight razors today have disposable blades, in my view there not the real deal, its just like buying a gillette razor. There are still a few shops around that sell the "real deal" but there pricey because of the tensioned stainless steal thats used in the blade so it will keep its edge. I seen a few shops on the web that sell them. "Once you go straight you'll never go back"

Myself the reason why i went with the straight razor is i have very heavy beard, because if I use an ordinary razor, it's like I never shaved in the first place and by 10:00am i have stubble again, with the straight razor its clean smooth and no shadow at least until dinner time.

http://www.classicshaving.com/page/page/1240646.htm

 Heres a site that explains how to hold and use a straight razor, and explains the benefits of using one and of course the consequences of not doing it right. "OUCH" anybody have a bandaid!!

http://www.menessentials.com/oxid.php/sid/x/shp/oxbaseshop/cl/info/tpl/straight_razors.tpl


----------



## p_imbeault

Hale, I just find shaving with just hot water works just as well for me as using any soap. And I always throw on some Old Spice when Im done, I've been doing the same thing for the last 3 years and its been working fine for me.


----------



## RangerRay

Going against the grain...

I used to use the Gillette Sensor and Mach3 blades, but after a while, i realised that I was spending a fortune in razor blades.  The blades usually seemed to last less than a week.  A couple of years ago, I went and bought myself a Phillishave Cool Skin, with the lotion cartridges, and it seems to be a comparable shave to a razor.  The lotion cartidges last a few weeks and are a fraction of the price as razor blades, and the blades in the Phillishave (according to the manual) need to be replaced every two years.  It cost a fair bit ($150 I think) but I've made that back in not buying expensive razor blades every few weeks!

But maybe I'll try the Fusion out sometime...


----------



## Mike Baker

So, I shaved last night, and today I need to shave again    (Yes I *did* do it right, this time   )


----------



## Can-american

One I am in the field I use an electric razor that pushes shaving lotion out of the top and I hate the thing, it gives me a uneven shave along with pure agony. Maybe because I am such a hair bastard, out of the field I use the mach 3 or that other 3 blade one, what I would like though is to find a straight razor. Any suggestions?  Take care Can-Am


----------



## Rice0031

I am the only one that thinks perhaps shaving with a blade that could hack off your head may be a bad idea?


----------



## BernDawg

Consider this.  The safety razor has only been in existance for, about the last 100 yrs.  For centuries prior that is how men (and enlightened women   ) shaved.  Doesn't seem so far fetched now, does it?


----------



## NL_engineer

BernDawg said:
			
		

> Consider this.  The safety razor has only been in existance for, about the last 100 yrs.  For centuries prior that is how men (and enlightened women   ) shaved.  Doesn't seem so far fetched now, does it?



Why do you think the safety razor came into existence ???


----------



## retd cpl wife

A women's view.

As a home care worker when I shave my male clients I have to use an electric shaver(piece of garbage),I find that it leaves more whisker than it shaves.
I personally use Mach 3 make buying blades easier since my home is male dominate.
A long time ago I was a hairdresser,I was taught to shave the back of the neck with a straight razor specially when doing "0" tapers.I did my course across the road from DND Headquarters.
When I met my husband I stopped him and his house mates from massacring their hair with the clippers and started doing their hair for them,even though I hadn't picked up my straight edge in a long time I did get the back of their necks whistle clean without one nick.
Yes we do use disposable blades now a days ,But considering all the diseases you can pass on from a few droplets of blood hidden in the crevasses of a blade its a better idea.
my blades are made from Wilkinson Sword and keep and edge on them for quite a long while through many uses.


----------



## BernDawg

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Why do you think the safety razor came into existence ???


Shaky hands... The Mother of invention!  ;D


----------



## retd cpl wife

Can-american said:
			
		

> One I am in the field I use an electric razor that pushes shaving lotion out of the top and I hate the thing, it gives me a uneven shave along with pure agony. Maybe because I am such a hair *******, out of the field I use the mach 3 or that other 3 blade one, what I would like though is to find a straight razor. Any suggestions?  Take care Can-Am



If you don't mind the straight edge with the disposable blade most beauty/barber supply shops carry them. Some might even carry the regular ones.
Never hurts to ask.


----------



## proudnurse

retd cpl wife said:
			
		

> As a home care worker when I shave my male clients I have to use an electric shaver(piece of garbage),I find that it leaves more whisker than it shaves.



Ah! I can agree with that... though I know it's policy, especially for clients that are diabetic. The client that I visit weekly right now, and the other one that I visit from time to time to pick up extra hours does not require me to do this. But I do recall, being on training in a Long Term Care centre a few yrs ago we did use an electric razor also  so you're not alone there, in not liking how it worked.

~Rebecca


----------



## Greymatters

Gillete Trac 2 - a good shave at an economical price!


----------



## observor 69

Mt wife is a nurse in a downtown TO hospital.
FWIW she shaves her patients with Gillette Trac Two disposable razors and Gillette gel shaving cream for Sensitive skin. All the nurses on her floor do the same and pay for these items out of their own pocket.


----------



## rz350

I use a kitwhoreco T-97, it has some 43 blades, and each head only costs 92.45!

LOL, as much as I like to make fun of gillette marketing, I do in reality use a Mach 3.


----------



## proudnurse

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Mt wife is a nurse in a downtown TO hospital.
> FWIW she shaves her patients with Gillette Trac Two disposable razors and Gillette gel shaving cream for Sensitive skin. All the nurses on her floor do the same and pay for these items out of their own pocket.



That sounds like it would work much, much better and a much better shave! When I was in training for Health Care Aide (Personal Support Worker) we were taught not to clip toenails (another example) or shave with razor blade, as not to put our client at risk for getting cut. At the same time though, my one client that I pick up hours for from time to time at homecare, is Diabetic and we are required to test his blood sugar... as he is unable to so for himself. So, sometimes depending on where you work.... you pick up a little extra training that you never expected you would outside of what they taught us in school, which is fine with me, because I love learning new skills  ;D

Thanks for your post, I will have to remember that and if I ever run into a situation where I am working with a client that does need help with a shave, I will have to check with my boss and see if it's alright if I can do the same thing as your wife does when she is working. Never hurts to inquire. 

~Rebecca


----------



## retd cpl wife

Mt wife is a nurse in a downtown TO hospital.
FWIW she shaves her patients with Gillette Trac Two disposable razors and Gillette gel shaving cream for Sensitive skin. All the nurses on her floor do the same and pay for these items out of their own pocket.

I know its policy where I work now ,no shaving with blades ,no nail clipping ,and get this no blowdrying hair(I'm a retired hairdresser with an active license) But when I worked in a nursing home I clipped nails used a razor and did my share of hairdressing ,even though I was a P.S.W. 
I guess its all according to your company.
I believe Baden Guy's wife has a bit more lee way as she is a nurse (regulated profession) as P.S.W do not have that protection.


----------



## cameron

I've found the Gillette Good News Excel the best i've tried so far, at a very good price too.  For some reason I nick myself more often with the More expensive Sensor and Trac II.


----------



## Mike Baker

Got myself a schick quattro titanium trimmer to try out


----------



## armyvern

The Motorola Razer ...

I can't hurt myself with that.


----------



## Yrys

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I can't hurt myself with that.



Are you sure  > ?


----------



## Mike Baker

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> The Motorola Razer ...
> 
> I can't hurt myself with that.


By the look of the commercial, best watch yourself with it 


ETA: And no, Yrys, I will NOT shave my legs, no matter how much you want me too  ;D


----------



## Yrys

Mike Baker said:
			
		

> ETA: And no, Yrys, I will NOT shave my legs, no matter how much you want me too  ;D



HEY! I never said that, just that I want you to post pics, as you wrote you would...


----------



## Mike Baker

Yrys said:
			
		

> HEY! I never said that, just that I want you to post pics, as you wrote you would...


Oh, well then, we will see then, we will see  ^-^ :-*


----------



## MarkOttawa

Worth considering: Proraso shaving soap or cream ( I think I prefer the soap--Proraso brushes also available) at Shoppers Drugmart ( Florena cream an alternative, William's Shaving Soap no longer stocked).

A site just found, "Badger & Blade":
http://badgerandblade.com/



> Our goal is to provide a fun and informative site covering all aspects of wet shaving, catering to all groups from beginners to seasoned pros...



And a fancy US shaving  sales site, "BARCLAY CROCKER":
http://www.barclaycrocker.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=barclay

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## AirCanuck

I see that this is an old one, but seriously this is a pretty serious topic when shaving is so central to your job

I use the Gillette Fusion right now BUT I'm switching to an old fashioned straight blade soon, the Fusion gives me too much irritation - I also use the old brush and bar type stuff to lather instead of foam or gel or whatever - find it works much better.


----------



## Yrys

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> seriously this is a pretty serious topic when shaving is so central to your job.



What kind of job is that ?

a puzzled civilian ...


----------



## medaid

I use a knife...

You know? like Crocodile Dundee? This big honking thing?!

Don't believe me?! Okay... fine Gillette Mach 3 Turbo  ;D


----------



## BernDawg

Yrys said:
			
		

> What kind of job is that ?
> 
> a puzzled civilian ...



We are required to shave every day we are on duty in accordance with the QR&O (Queens Regulations and Orders)

BTW Shick Quatro, mug and brush w/Wilkinson soap.


----------



## Yrys

BernDawg said:
			
		

> We are required to shave every day we are on duty in accordance with the QR&O (Queens Regulations and Orders)



I know that , but how come is it "central" to the job ?


----------



## AirCanuck

Yrys said:
			
		

> I know that , but how come is it "central" to the job ?



Well, for one as an Officer I have to set an example to NCM's, thus I can't be walking around unshaven myself, can I?  Appearance and attention go hand-in-hand with discipline, and thus shaving would be 'central' to the job.

Thus, if you get irritation easily (as I do) shaving becomes the bane of your existence.

Just checked, I use proraso from shoppers and the same brush.  Will tell more when I receive the straight razor.


----------



## ENGINEERS WIFE

Some equipment has to fit the face properly, like a gas mask.  If they aren't clean shaven, it might not give a proper seal.  And I'm sure there are other trades and equipment that needs to have a clean shave.


----------



## midget-boyd91

My favorite razor? A cheap electric one.
But seeing how that doesn't exist (not in this realm, anyways), I don't shave much.   :blotto:
Yup, that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.  ^-^

Baker, are you meaning to say the doctors and law enforcement types are actually allowing you to grasp hold of a sharp razor-like device now? Scary day, today is. 

Midget


----------



## AirCanuck

ENGINEERS WIFE said:
			
		

> Some equipment has to fit the face properly, like a gas mask.  If they aren't clean shaven, it might not give a proper seal.  And I'm sure there are other trades and equipment that needs to have a clean shave.



quite true - weren't they discussing making navy members shave their beards too after that fiasco with the sub fire a few years back?


----------



## Good2Golf

I prop a picture of Chuck Norris in front of me and all my whiskers fall out from his stare!


----------



## tabernac

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I prop a picture of Chuck Norris in front of me and all my whiskers fall out from his stare!



I like the way you think! 

I should probably stop using disposable 3-blades... Time for either a Fusion or expensive electric razor.


----------



## AirCanuck

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> I like the way you think!
> 
> I should probably stop using disposable 3-blades... Time for either a Fusion or expensive electric razor.



The fusion is key.  The only reason I am switching to a straight razor is because I've heard it is like the ultimate thing for people who get really bad irritation.  for normal people though, the thing is key - although the blades cost an arm and a leg!


----------



## Good2Golf

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> The fusion is key.  The only reason I am switching to a straight razor is because *I've heard it is like the ultimate thing for people who get really bad irritation. * for normal people though, the thing is key - although the blades cost an arm and a leg!



Well, improperly used, it really would be the ultimate thing!


----------



## ballz

I use a Mach 3 right now, works well for me, but I'm switching to a straight razor as well. I got shaved with one at the barber's one time, my face felt like rubber for 2 days. They're a pretty expensive investment though.


----------



## Koenigsegg

Along the lines of what G2G said...If improperly used it could be your last investment too!   ;D


----------



## davidk

I used to use a Fusion while in the field as well as at home, but I find that the blade cartridge has a tendency of snapping loose from the hinge that attaches it to the handle when it's tossed in my rucksack. So it's back to the more reliable (and cheaper) Mach 3.

The miracle of Fusion is that when you combine blue and orange you somehow get a really expensive razor...


----------



## AirCanuck

blue and orange PLUS an extra blade!
javascript:void(0);
Insert Quote
although, I do believe it IS the blue and orange that drive the cost up.  ;D

As for ballz' comment


> I use a Mach 3 right now, works well for me, but I'm switching to a straight razor as well. I got shaved with one at the barber's one time, my face felt like rubber for 2 days. They're a pretty expensive investment though.



it may be expensive, but the blades last a HELL of a lot longer than their cheaper counterparts.


----------



## RTaylor

I'll just hide a cat in my gear. Seems when I try to grow facial hair it comes in pretty patchy looking and I'm nearing 30, so I attribute that to my cat waking me up with their rough ass tongue. 

Or it could be because of my Native American heritage.

I blame the cat though.


----------



## ballz

Koenigsegg said:
			
		

> Along the lines of what G2G said...If improperly used it could be your last investment too!   ;D



Haha that is the best part. Nothing drips testosterone like razor sharp stainless steel that could leave a man looking for his adam's apple with one mistake.



			
				AirCanuck said:
			
		

> As for ballz' comment
> it may be expensive, but the blades last a HELL of a lot longer than their cheaper counterparts.



Oh without a doubt, if you buy a good one and look after it, they're supposed to last a lifetime. Nothing that's cheap is good, and nothing that's good is cheap.


----------



## Chrisco

Gillette sensor is what I currently use. I'm fortunate enough to have the facial hair from hell. It's dark, thick, and near unshaveable. Mach 3/ Schick Quatro I find useless. I've tried numerous electric shavers. None work for me. They'll rip a few hairs out but for the most part it's just a painful experience and I just end up looking patchy at best.


----------



## Mike Baker

uncle-midget-boyd said:
			
		

> Baker, are you meaning to say the doctors and law enforcement types are actually allowing you to grasp hold of a sharp razor-like device now? Scary day, today is.
> 
> Midget


Hahaha. Yes, they do.


----------



## tabernac

AirCanuck said:
			
		

> The fusion is key.  The only reason I am switching to a straight razor is because I've heard it is like the ultimate thing for people who get really bad irritation.  for normal people though, the thing is key - although the blades cost an arm and a leg!



Uh oh. The reason I only shave once a week now is because of irritation... Plus, I like going around with a permenant 3 day shadow. 
I'll have to find a barber who still does it old skool!


----------



## AirCanuck

yeah, while at school (since I'm doing ROTP) I remain fairly unshaven just to avoid the irritation, but whenever on training etc I shave every day - the Fusion does ALRIGHT then, but I generally get cut a few times every time from irritation, which shouldn't really happen with a fusion.


----------



## NL_engineer

I use the good old Mach 3 



			
				Mike Baker said:
			
		

> Hahaha. Yes, they do.



Well we need the note from the doctor before we believe you  ;D [joke]


----------



## Mike Baker

Uhh, my mom has it, I swear


----------



## elecgitarguy

I'm hoping that someone out there will some advice for me. Here's my dilemma:

With approx. 3 days growth, I can shave down to nice and smooth. However, if i try and shave the next day, or day after that, I just chew up my face and receive a lot razor burn. I have tried Mach 3, Gillette fusion(powered and non powered), other "disposable" razors, different shaving creams, gels and foam. I've tried going with the grain, against the grain, at different angles, before/after/in a warm shower, lying with a wet warm cloth over the area to me shaved, light/heavy pressure, and many different combinations of the previously listed. I've done some thorough searching on the internet and still no luck with those techniques. Although the bathroom shine & sacrificial alter did seem like a good idea, I figure I've already spilled enough blood over the sink.  
After no luck there, I though I would seek the advice of a barber. After all, the pro might tell me something I haven't already thought of. He recommended I pull the skin tight, shave with the grain, and  if all else fails, come see him for a good straight razor shave. I followed his advice and it caused some serious irritation.

I realize the need/requirement to shave each day as it applies to the instilling or discipline, uniformity and most importantly, cleanliness.

Has anyone any advice? Seems that everyone I ask is not really sure what else to try. I know each person might have a  different technique, but right now shaving every day is really hurting. :brickwall:
Thanks guys.


----------



## blacktriangle

The guys with beards are always considered cooler, find a way to get a chit for it.


----------



## mr.rhtuner

I have the same issue....when I did my co-op program years ago, shaving on an ex was brutal for my face


----------



## slowmode

You can do what I did, get a chit for it, same thing happens to me...I have no problem growing a beard but I cannot shave a day after or it cuts my face up like no tomorrow. Go to the doctors and get a Chit requiring you to shave every 2-3 days. But remember, this is a responsibility in its self, you have to ensure it looks good and is neatly trimmed.


----------



## elecgitarguy

I've been told I'll be heading off for BMQ for August or September, so when I do get there, am I to try to get on the first sick parade I can to see the medic and get that chit? Or should someone else be notified.


----------



## George Wallace

Try an Electric Razor.


----------



## aesop081

elecgitarguy said:
			
		

> am I to try to get on the first sick parade I can to see the medic and get that chit?



I realize that you might have a legitimate issue here but, be forwarned, the optics of you running to the MIR from the word GO will make you a popular guy.

Just sayin'


----------



## elecgitarguy

> Try an Electric Razor.



I thought that was covered in previous posts and determined to not be a good idea.


> I realize that you might have a legitimate issue here but, be forwarned, the optics of you running to the MIR from the word GO will make you a popular guy.



I know what you mean, but am I correct that the alternative is getting jacked by the course instructors for not shaving? Or constantly cutting up my face..


----------



## Sub_Guy

Here is what I would do.   CDN Aviator is right, running to the MIR first thing could be the start of a fun BMQ for the instructors, you being the on the receiving end of their fun.  

I would shave everyday, endure the pain, then after a week it will become apparent to your staff that you are in pain and hopefully then you can make your trip to the MIR for the chit, with the recommendation from the staff.    You do have enough time before reporting to formulate a plan, but showing up and running to MIR is a bad idea in my opinion.   

If all else fails you can form a ZZ Top revival band.


----------



## Armymedic

Two pieces of advice to try before you run to the medics:
1.


			
				sof-t said:
			
		

> Don't push so hard.


I mean do not apply so much pressure to your razor. Let the cutting edges of the multiple bladed razors do their job and pull the hair up for cutting. And slow down...take smooth light strokes.

2.


			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Try an Electric Razor.



Why is it not a good idea? Have you tried it? If you still get irritation etc after 2 weeks, then you know its not a razor issue, but a skin one.


----------



## Bob Terwilliger

Try shaving with Noxema cream in the blue container. I had the same problem, and this worked. Wash your face, leave it wet, rub in the Noxema, and let it sit for a minute(it wil start to tingle). Rinse your blade often as the Noxema will clog it more than regular shaving cream. Good luck.


----------



## elecgitarguy

Thanks for the sound advice. 

On somewhat of a side note, just wanted to say how refreshing it is to come here looking for help, and not only do you guys give me some good advice, but also the reasoning behind it. Its nice to know WHY this would/would not work. 

Again, thanks.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Another thing to try is shaving oil.  Along the lines of the Noxema trick, it is a different type of lubricant that might help the blades run smoother.

Can't remember where I read it but shave before you get all steamy in a hot shower or hot facecloth.. something about the skin swelling with the heat..


----------



## George Wallace

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> Another thing to try is shaving oil.  Along the lines of the Noxema trick, it is a different type of lubricant that might help the blades run smoother.
> 
> Can't remember where I read it but shave before you get all steamy in a hot shower or hot facecloth.. something about the skin swelling with the heat..



Probably in the long topic we had going on "SHAVING".

As we are starting to cover all the same things over again, this topic will be LOCKED, and the usual caveats apply.

LOCKED !


----------



## Bob1987

I shave with a straight razor. Will anyone have a problem with this at basic?
If so I will suck it up and use an inferior safety razor.
I'm only asking because I don't want to get yelled at for bringing it.

Thanks.

Bob


----------



## George Wallace

The only time you will get yelled at is if you DON'T shave.  They don't care what kind of razor you use to get that clean smooth look.


----------



## toughenough

George's reply is 100% correct.

I'd also like to add, that my understanding is that a straight razor is a slower process. It won't be uncommon for you to have to shave in 2-3 minutes from start to finish. Keep that in mind, FWIW.


----------



## RubberTree

Really? A straight razor? 
Isn't there a restriction on the length of blade you are allowed to have at St. Jean? I know its not a "knife" but just a thought....
Really? A straight razor?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

RubberTree said:
			
		

> Really? A straight razor?
> Isn't there a restriction on the length of blade you are allowed to have at St. Jean? I know its not a "knife" but just a thought....
> Really? A straight razor?



Don't sound so incredulous. Lots of guys shave with a straight razor. Some of us, even still, use a brush and soap instead of canned foam. Personal choice.


----------



## mariomike

Straight razors are old school. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course! My barber uses one.  Amazing how bloody they can be when misused. Like anything I guess. They don't call them "throat cutters" for nothing!


----------



## p2shanmu

I know this may look like a dump question. I have acne condition and I use some products. Also to shave I use electric shavers, since they wont cut the acne and leave blood all over my face. Is this allowed in BMQ?


----------



## xena

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The only time you will get yelled at is if you DON'T shave.  They don't care what kind of razor you use to get that clean smooth look.



I think that answers whether you can use an electric razor or not.

As for the cornucopia of other products, it's a matter of whether you'll have room to store them with your personal effects (we had a shoe box on my course, don't know what the rule is now), and whether you'll have time to use them (likely not).


----------



## Nfld Sapper

No matter what _you_ use, you are expected to have a locker layout just like everyone else. In other words you will have to buy shave cream and a normal razor.


----------



## ballz

Pretty hard to get away with using an electric razor actually... They suck and guys were getting called on it a lot by my instructors.

If a razor buggers up your face too much you can go to the doctor and get a med chit to grow a beard. If you're not sure whether your face is buggered up enough, just dry shave and go down ;D no pain no gain right?


----------



## FDO

Ballz says "If a razor buggers up your face too much you can go to the doctor and get a med chit to grow a beard. If you're not sure whether your face is buggered up enough, just dry shave and go down  no pain no gain right?"


Great advice. No sense having any integrity or honesty. Just play the system and bulls***. That's why we have these things in place. Never mind the guys that actually need the chit. Everybody go get one. While your at it why not complain of a sore back to get out of work so you can stay home and collect pay while your buddies do all their work AND yours.

Not hard to tell who is in because they can't find a job anywhere else and who actually cares about what they are doing and why.

Ballz, I'd like to see you as a supervisor and have all your guys out on bogus med chits and your CO come to to get a job done. Should be interesting!!

If your electric is not doing the job than get a razor and some shaving cream for sensitve skin. Once BMQ is over you can go back to using whatever method you want. While your in BMQ you have play by their rules it's only 14 weeks out of a 25 year career. Not much time when you look at the big picture.


----------



## anjp

I am scheduled to start BMOQ at St-Jean in September 2010 and would like to know if I can continue to shave with my straight razor.   
My current shaving kit includes the razor, a 14"x2"leather strop, boar's hair brush and solid shaving soap.   I noticed that most posts in this forum consider your shaving kit to be a spray can of foam/gel + safety razor.  Will my kit be permitted?

Annex B part 2 of the Joining Instructions states that a non disposable razor with blades shall be purchased at CANEX after arrival.  The document also prohibits 'edged weapons.'  I found a few other posts re this topic on the forum, but nothing seemed conclusive.

Thanks


----------



## mariomike

Topic: "The Shaving Superthread- All You Want and More....": 
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/4171/post-898078.html#msg898078


----------



## Sonar Mike

Has anyone ever thought of using NAIR? Its the cream that woman uses on there legs for hair removal. If I'm correct, it can last a few days or so. And what if you tried waxing :crybaby:? That's like a week with out worries about shaving.


----------



## stealthylizard

I have known a person that tried Nair...... don't.  There is even a warning on the product not to use it for sensitive areas like the face.  I believe there is a Nair product for facial hair, but I don't know how well it works.


----------



## aesop081

Sonar Mike said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever thought of using NAIR? Its the cream that woman uses on there legs for hair removal. If I'm correct, it can last a few days or so. And what if you tried waxing :crybaby:? That's like a week with out worries about shaving.



Jesus wept......entire generations have completed basic training and used a razor daily to remove facial hair. Are you people that f'ing lazy ?

 :


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Watch out Cdn Aviator, they might fill out a hurt feelings report on you......


----------



## wildman0101

sonar mike...
Nair is like a flame thrower,, instant burn(except roots) which is why your whisker's
grow back. Wax same thing but your not burning the hair away your ripping it out..
stupid me tried that stuff. Ill stick to my 3.5 inch straight razor, lil horse hair brush
and shaving soap(mug required)..
If i remember correctly on kit inspecion as long as you had the required, anything else 
is allowed as long as its up to snuff.,(clean,sharp, and conforming to military stand-
ards you were allowed.. then again that was back in my day...
cheers, 
Scoty B


----------



## Delta26

glad to see I'm not the only one who enjoys a close shave.


----------



## aginzburg13

Hey all, I need some quick advice/tips on a potential shaving problem. Basically, I've been using an electric shaver for a few years now after countless years of ruining my face with razors (ive got some ridiculously crappy sensitive skin on my face). Its not really an option to go back to using a razor during basic as that will undoubtedly make my skin breakout like before and result in a very crappy shave (probably wont hold up during inspection). 

Realistically, how complicated would it be to bring in an electric shaver for my basic training? Will I have access to an electric outlet for recharging? Or will I be forced to buy a battery operated one? (If I can even find one) Would a note from a doctor do anything? I've been going to him for my skin issues so he is more than familiar.

I am totally committed to my military career, I am 110% ready for the verbal abuse, and I would hate for this to be an obstacle during basic and on later courses.

Thank you for any advice you can give


----------



## Fatalize

There are many outlets available. A few people did that on my BMQ just keep it in your pers box or spare kit bag. If you're that worried you could write a memo. And remember it's all a game


----------



## Stoker

aginzburg13 said:
			
		

> Hey all, I need some quick advice/tips on a potential shaving problem. Basically, I've been using an electric shaver for a few years now after countless years of ruining my face with razors (ive got some ridiculously crappy sensitive skin on my face). Its not really an option to go back to using a razor during basic as that will undoubtedly make my skin breakout like before and result in a very crappy shave (probably wont hold up during inspection).
> 
> Realistically, how complicated would it be to bring in an electric shaver for my basic training? Will I have access to an electric outlet for recharging? Or will I be forced to buy a battery operated one? (If I can even find one) Would a note from a doctor do anything? I've been going to him for my skin issues so he is more than familiar.
> 
> I am totally committed to my military career, I am 110% ready for the verbal abuse, and I would hate for this to be an obstacle during basic and on later courses.
> 
> Thank you for any advice you can give



I can't see there being a problem at BMQ since you should have access to outlets however there may be no outlets in the field so prepare yourself. Keep in mind that sometime you may be forced to shave with a blade.


----------



## HItorMiss

It may be worth your while to shave once or twice with a blade get your rash then go to the MIR and receive a no shave shit. There have been several candidates that have had to go this route from the course I have instructed and there is zero problem with that. The electronic shaver "could" be an issue as we do say you MUST have and USE the razor we see in you locker for inspection.

Bring your electronic, talk to your staff. I think they will probably tell you to go the route I just mentioned as it will actually be easier for you, I mean hey you wont have to shave at all my way....


----------



## mariomike

aginzburg13 said:
			
		

> Thank you for any advice you can give



There is lots of it:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=001303416948774225061%3Aqhcx9pz3dku&ie=UTF-8&q=electric+bmq&siteurl=www.google.com%2Fcse%2Fhome%3Fcx%3D001303416948774225061%3Aqhcx9pz3dku#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=electric%20razor%20bmq


----------



## aginzburg13

So if i received a no shave chit from the MIR, you're saying that I could potentially go through basic without ever having to touch my beard? That seems all fine and dandy, but I really dont want to be that ONE guy that doesn't have to shave. Is this an issue for a few people as well?

Thanks again


----------



## Old Sweat

In my early years in the Army - aged 18 to about 22 or 23 - I was plagued with tender skin and outbreaks of irritation on my cheeks from shaving. While it never was serious enough to warrant going on sick parade, it was sore and made shaving difficult. One solution is to take extra care to keep your razor just as absolutely clean as you can. This was easy in the days of safety razors and before cartridges came upon the scene, but I found it was an essential step.

I also used to change my blade daily, but with today's pricey shaving cartridges, that is beyond the reach of all but Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.


----------



## jeffb

That being said OS, there are much better shaving creams and aftershaves now. Perhaps some combination of the two with OS's advice above would help?


----------



## Scott

Yeah, better cremes and gels have made a huge difference. I use either a paste from Nutrogena or gel from King of Shaves. Both are non aerosol so less prone to freezing/low pressure issues in the cold. Both have their own attributes and the King of Shaves stuff has aloe for a wicked cool sensation before, during and after the shave. I recently went back to Sensor Excel blades for something to do and have had better results that when I was younger.

But that's just me


----------



## Privateer

I use a double edge safety razor, and it's great.  The body itself (Merkur classic double edge) cost around $35, and blades are much less expensive.  Right now I'm using a blade (Astra) that comes in packages of 5 for $2.  If you find a blade that you love, you can order blades off the internet for even cheaper.  Having inexpensive blades means that you're not deterred from changing the blades frequently - I change every week - which results in better shaves.  Just make sure that you don't get crap blades from your local pharmacy.  I've tried Astra, Merkur, Derby and Feather with good results.  You need to find a blade that works for you.


----------



## PJGary

aginzburg13 said:
			
		

> So if i received a no shave chit from the MIR, you're saying that I could potentially go through basic without ever having to touch my beard? That seems all fine and dandy, but I really dont want to be that ONE guy that doesn't have to shave. Is this an issue for a few people as well?
> 
> Thanks again



It depends on what the chit says; if it says "Must wait 48 hours between shaves" or "Only required to shave once per 7 day period" or "Candidate exempt from shaving for ------" Whoever examines you at the MIR will determine this. 

Don't worry about being that "one guy". This is much more common than you think, the instructors have likely seen it 100 times before. Also if you have a chit, it's not up to your instructors, they have to adhere to what your chit says. 

Plus...man, you get to grow a beard. Beards look hard, you will be the coolest looking dude in your platoon .

Cheers!

EDITED: Spelling abomination.


----------



## divermc

What a great thread...who would have known there could be so much to talk about regarding shaving.


----------



## blacktriangle

I find using a thermal scrub (there are a few decent ones on the market) before shaving helps prepare the skin and hair for a better shave. Also making sure you have a clean/sharp blade obviously, and a shave gel that doesn't irritate you too badly. 

It sucks I know, but do your best. I personally don't shave anytime I don't have to. Right now I have a beard since I am on leave. There are quite a few guys that do this. Also, if the MIR will give you a shaving chit, just go with it.  Good staff aren't going to give you a hard time about it, especially if you are a hard worker.


----------



## gashbag

My barber recommended the following and I swear by it:

take a few extra seconds to warm up your face (hot water) then use a pre-shave oil.. which really is any type of mineral oil with vitamin E cheapest I have found was at the body shop but you can find all kinds all over the place. then apply shaving cream (you dont need a lot as shown on tv a thin film works) finally use razor


----------



## Rifleman62

After shaving, rinse blade in running hot tap water, blow dry or shake vigorously, then spray/drop pre-shave oil/mineral oil on blade.

Retire and shave every second day.

God, as penance,  made women pregnant and men have to shave.


----------



## Jarnhamar

It's Science



> Tampa, FL – Forget new gear, weapons, or sophisticated targeting systems. The newest tool coming to combat troops is low-tech: beards. In a report released yesterday, research think-tank Xegis Solutions noted that beards have a direct correlation to combat effectiveness.
> 
> Jonathon Burns was the lead researcher in the study.
> 
> “We took 100 soldiers. 25 were Special Forces qualified and had beards, 25 were Special Forces qualified without beards, 25 were regular Army allowed to grow beards for the study, and the last 25 were regular Army without beards. All 100 of these subjects were in direct combat in Afghanistan during the study.”
> 
> He continued, “Xegis Solutions had several teams of researchers embedded with these troops to make observations on their combat effectiveness. The results were overwhelming, out of the 50 soldiers with beards, zero were wounded or killed and they had a significantly higher accuracy of fire than the soldiers without beards. The soldiers lacking beards had a higher rate of weapons malfunctions and basically, shit went wrong most of the time.”
> 
> CENTCOM wasted no time establishing a new rule forcing males to grow beards.
> 
> Commander Gen. James E. Mattis issued a statement to all troops in combat zones.
> 
> “The time has come for the Armed Forces to accept the facts, and the facts are that beards save lives. All this time it was speculated that Green Berets were better because of their superior and intensive training while in fact, most of it had to do with beards.”
> 
> There’s no doubt that many in the Special Forces community will be angered, but General Mattis is convinced.
> 
> “It’s settled science. ”



http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/04/pentagon-study-finds-beards-directly-proportional-to-combat-effectiveness/


----------



## OldSolduer

All well and good until you start scrapping with someone who is not afraid to use chemical weapons ie Sarin, Phosgene etc.


----------



## PMedMoe

Pretty sure that The Duffel Blog is a military equivalent to The Onion.


----------



## Remius

Or maybe it was posted on April 1st?


----------



## Journeyman

You cut off the last line of the article:



> Furthermore, any females able to grow facial hair are encouraged to do so as well.


----------



## matthew1786

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> All well and good until you start scrapping with someone who is not afraid to use chemical weapons ie Sarin, Phosgene etc.



 :+1:


----------



## PuckChaser

I hear cheesy moustaches increase combat effectiveness by 10%.. ;D


----------



## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I hear cheesy moustaches increase combat effectiveness by 10%.. ;D



Only if you are a bad ass biker or a porn star.


----------



## OldSolduer

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I hear cheesy moustaches increase combat effectiveness by 10%.. ;D



Not true. In fact the cheesy ones reduce combat effectiveness as soldiers refuse to take you seriously.

The big bushy ones, on the other hand......


----------



## Jarnhamar

Journeyman said:
			
		

> You cut off the last line of the article:



You WANT to encourage  women to grow beards? That's not science, that's just weird!


CBRN threat isn't an issue since this article proves a chemical attack would only happen to soldiers without beards.


----------



## chrisf

Add a baseball cap and you'd be unstoppable...


----------



## ballz

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> CBRN threat isn't an issue since this article proves a chemical attack would only happen to soldiers without beards.



Well, I'm sold. 

Gone to go shave with a steak knife and chalk so I can get my beard-chit tomorrow. See ya suckers.


----------



## George Wallace

ballz said:
			
		

> Well, I'm sold.
> 
> Gone to go shave with a steak knife and chalk so I can get my beard-chit tomorrow. See ya suckers.



There are easier ways......some may even think perfumy..... ;D





Ah!   The smell of Diesel first thing in the morning.........Smells like .......like Paris in rush hour.   :nod:


----------



## Jungle

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> All well and good until you start scrapping with someone who is not afraid to use chemical weapons ie Sarin, Phosgene etc.



Well... if there is a CBRN threat, just order everybody to shave.


----------



## medicineman

I think that before a big punch up starts, this should have been added below the original post me thinks - 

:sarcasm:

That's the gist of the article to me I think.

MM


----------



## OldSolduer

medicineman said:
			
		

> I think that before a big punch up starts, this should have been added below the original post me thinks -
> 
> :sarcasm:
> 
> That's the gist of the article to me I think.
> 
> MM



Agreed!

Besides there would be far too much grey in my beard.....


----------



## armyvern

Journeyman said:
			
		

> You cut off the last line of the article:



Well, the beards a no-go, but I will cease shaving the legs and pits effective immediately ... for the love and benefit of the Country.


----------



## Cui

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Well, the beards a no-go, but I will cease shaving the legs and pits effective immediately ... for the love and benefit of the Country.



Women with hairy legs and pits, I think you just scarred me for life.


----------



## LineJumper

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Well, the beards a no-go, but I will cease shaving the legs and pits effective immediately ... for the love and benefit of the Country.



Because the CF is short on Mugwumps??????? I thought there was a fair demographic of BC girls in the army.


----------



## PMedMoe

medicineman said:
			
		

> I think that before a big punch up starts, this should have been added below the original post me thinks -
> 
> :sarcasm:
> 
> That's the gist of the article to me I think.
> 
> MM



The other blog titles are:

• Afghan Army Soldier Attacks US Troops, Fails Miserably

• Chuck Norris Joins Army, Immediately Promoted Chairman Of Joint Chiefs

• Investigation Uncovers Controversial ‘PowerPointing’ Interrogation Technique

• LT’s Dedication to Mission, Protective Equipment, Saves Lives

• Army 2LT Leads Platoon Five Kilometers Without Getting Lost, Awarded Medal


What was your first clue?


----------



## Teeps74

OZ this was a brilliant piece of amusement to an otherwise boring day at the office.

Thank you for exposing me to this wonderful site, the duffel blog! I will wile away hours in mirthful bliss on that site in the future.


----------



## jemcgrg

Yes, this is definitely the only reason I successfully stayed awake at work today! Thank you.


----------



## jollyjacktar

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> The other blog titles are:
> • Investigation Uncovers Controversial ‘PowerPointing’ Interrogation Technique
> • Army 2LT Leads Platoon Five Kilometers Without Getting Lost, Awarded Medal
> 
> What was your first clue?


I don't know, these two sound pretty believable.


----------



## PMedMoe

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I don't know, these two sound pretty believable.



I agree.  Particularly the PowerPoint one:  "I'll tell you anything, just make it stop!!!"   :crybaby:

 ;D


----------



## OldSolduer

Ok so if we are fighting zombies....you know the Zombie Apocalypse I have been predicting, then do we need to shave?  >

I'm thinking shaving is the last thing on my mind.


----------



## medicineman

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Ok so if we are fighting zombies....you know the Zombie Apocalypse I have been predicting, then do we need to shave?  >
> 
> I'm thinking shaving is the last thing on my mind.



Shave/no shave would certainly help with IFF...hard question to answer really


----------



## cupper

I'm living proof that the the stats don't lie.

Started growing a beard after I left the reserves, and I have yet to be wounded or killed in a combat situation.


----------



## George Wallace

cupper said:
			
		

> I'm living proof that the the stats don't lie.
> 
> Started growing a beard after I left the reserves, and I have yet to be wounded or killed in a combat situation.



I take it you are still single?


----------



## GnyHwy

This article seems fitting.  Sorry, no time to paraphrase it for you.

Pentagon Study Finds Beards Directly Related To Combat Effectiveness
http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/04/pentagon-study-finds-beards-directly-proportional-to-combat-effectiveness/


----------



## captloadie

GnyHwy said:
			
		

> This article seems fitting.  Sorry, no time to paraphrase it for you.
> 
> Pentagon Study Finds Beards Directly Related To Combat Effectiveness
> http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/04/pentagon-study-finds-beards-directly-proportional-to-combat-effectiveness/



Maybe go to the top of the post on page one and see what this whole thread is about  ;D


----------



## GnyHwy

oops


----------



## Jed

I always knew that the Pioneers had an edge on the rest of the troops.


----------



## TN2IC

Anything on the CANFORGEN yet? Still waiting out.


----------



## Pusser

Shaving is waaaaay overrated.  There's a whole extra two minutes in my rack every morning because I don't bother with such silliness.  It was the Romans who invented shaving and look how they turned out!


----------



## George Wallace

Pusser said:
			
		

> Shaving is waaaaay overrated.  There's a whole extra two minutes in my rack every morning because I don't bother with such silliness.  It was the Romans who invented shaving and look how they turned out!



Not as bad as the Greeks......of for that matter......the Phoenicians.   Many of whom had beards......


----------



## Pusser

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Not as bad as the Greeks......of for that matter......the Phoenicians.   Many of whom had beards......



The Vikings did OK.  Many blue eyes in Europe are proof of that!


----------



## armyvern

So did the Amazons.

But heck, who needs beards to win and kick ass when you're a girl (and we _always_ win!)?  ;D


----------



## Old Sweat

How about waxing? It seems to me there is a member who does that and considers his manliness to be above question.


----------



## cupper

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I take it you are still single?



I never said that I wasn't suffering from PTSD. ;D


----------



## q_1966

Shave and you could save money on your next hat ;D

Photo from: http://www.arrse.co.uk/military-history-militaria/126245-british-army-use-beards.html


----------



## OldSolduer

cupper said:
			
		

> I never said that I wasn't suffering from PTSD. ;D



you sure you ain't  ADHD?


----------



## 2 Cdo

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Add a baseball cap and you'd be unstoppable...



The baseball hat alone will not make you unstoppable, but if you add an Airborne Regiment t-shirt the war would have ended back in 2002! 8)


----------



## OldSolduer

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> The baseball hat alone will not make you unstoppable, but if you add an Airborne Regiment t-shirt the war would have ended back in 2002! 8)



A PPCLI Tshirt renders the wearer invulnerable and impervious to all manner of nasty things, including assaults by RCN pers.


----------



## George Wallace

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> A PPCLI Tshirt renders the wearer invulnerable and impervious to all manner of nasty things, including assaults by RCN pers.



My Black Beret did the same, if not better.    >


----------



## 2 Cdo

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> A PPCLI Tshirt renders the wearer invulnerable and impervious to all manner of nasty things, including assaults by RCN pers.



 ;D

Nice touch Jim.


----------



## OldSolduer

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> Nice touch Jim.



Thank you!



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> My Black Beret did the same, if not better.    >



Nice try George.  >


----------



## Journeyman

George Wallace said:
			
		

> My Black Beret did the same, if not better.


I didn't know you were Navy....


----------



## PuckChaser

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I didn't know you were Navy....



 :stirpot:


----------



## 2 Cdo

George Wallace said:
			
		

> My Black Beret did the same, if not better.    >



I wanted to be a tanker when I joined but my parents weren't brother and sister!


----------



## George Wallace

Death before Dismount.


We played a more civilized game of Lawn Darts.......before the Canada Safety Council and Consumer Affairs put an end to that as well.  Damn Liberals.


----------



## TN2IC

2 Cdo won that one!!! Ouch


----------



## Pusser

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> The baseball hat alone will not make you unstoppable, but if you add an Airborne Regiment t-shirt the war would have ended back in 2002! 8)



In the Navy, tucking your trousers into your socks makes you invincible!


----------



## chrisf

Bart: Wow, I wonder where all the rats are going to go... 

Moe: All right, everybody tuck your pants into your socks


----------



## q_1966

Pusser said:
			
		

> In the Navy, tucking your trousers into your socks makes you invincible!



Thankfully that's no longer required.


----------



## medicineman

Pusser said:
			
		

> In the Navy, tucking your trousers into your socks makes you invincible!



According tot he crazy entomologist PHAC had lecturing us on Lyme Disease a few weeks ago, it's a new up and coming fashion...at least in the entomology world anyway.

MM


----------



## Pusser

medicineman said:
			
		

> According tot he crazy entomologist PHAC had lecturing us on Lyme Disease a few weeks ago, it's a new up and coming fashion...at least in the entomology world anyway.
> 
> MM



Because entomologists are so cool!


----------



## The Bread Guy

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> So did *the Amazons*.


I'd rather shave my beard than cut off, well, you know.....


----------



## armyvern

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I'd rather shave my beard than cut off, well, you know.....



You wouldn't have to make yourself a eunuch; we'd happily do it for you.  >


----------



## jollyjacktar

Pusser said:
			
		

> In the Navy, tucking your trousers into your socks makes you invincible!


Been awhile since you've been operational, Pusser.  That went out the window several years ago.  The tucking socks thing.  Not the invincibility.  Sailors always will retain that.


----------



## cupper

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Been awhile since you've been operational, Pusser.  That went out the window several years ago.  The tucking socks thing.  Not the invincibility.  Sailors always will retain that.



Do they still wear the funny Nun's habit's and oven mitts when they go into battle? ;D


----------



## Jarnhamar

I just volunteered to go Trade Pioneers, I can't wait to be able to grow a beard!


----------



## jollyjacktar

cupper said:
			
		

> Do they still wear the funny Nun's habit's and oven mitts when they go into battle? ;D


Yep.  They at least are FR, unlike wool socks.  Which is why the practice of tucking one's socks over the FR pant cuffs was stopped.  Sometimes, Sea Training Staff have moments of clarity and stupid practices cease.   BTW, I prefer to think of the oven mitts as opera gloves.  That way I can play Wagner in my head when I go into battle.


----------



## Pusser

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Been awhile since you've been operational, Pusser.  That went out the window several years ago.  The tucking socks thing.  Not the invincibility.  Sailors always will retain that.



It hasn't been that long....

But I do note that we have changed the NCD yet again.  Do they have zippers on the cuffs now?  I haven't bothered to pick up my new ones at clothing stores yet.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Pusser said:
			
		

> Do they have zippers on the cuffs now?


Not sure of what cuff you mean, trouser or shirt or jacket.  In short.  No.  Trouser, no change on cuff.  Shirt, button on cuff.  Jacket, velcro on cuff.  Zippers are on the trouser fly and on jacket front as before.

Now if you are suggesting perhaps a way of shrinking the cuff of the trouser as say the FF coverall or even the poopie suit ?  Again, no.  Not sure how they could/would make that happen and not be expensive or look strange.  But it would do the same as tucking the trouser cuff into the sock for minimizing flame travel up underneath the trouser leg, a good idea from that POV.  (Of course you realize that you've just had a moment of independant thought there!   ;D  That sort of thing will have to be crushed with vigor.)  What shot down the old way was the Dino's at ST coming to the understanding (after much prodding and convincing) that grey wool socks do not afford the same FR as the Nomex that was tucked into them and ergo it was a bloody stupid thing to insist upon just because Noah started the trend.


----------



## PanaEng

Cui said:
			
		

> Women with hairy legs and pits, I think you just scarred me for life.


What???

it's all very natural...
And I believe that you are not a real man until you have fought your way through some real think bush.
 :camo:


----------



## armyvern

PanaEng said:
			
		

> What???
> 
> it's all very natural...
> And I believe that you are not a real man until you have fought your way through some real think bush.
> :camo:



You single??   :-*


----------



## ModlrMike

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> A PPCLI Tshirt renders the wearer invulnerable and impervious to all manner of nasty things, including assaults by RCN pers.



But what if you're RCN and entitled to wear a PPCLI Tshirt?


----------



## Journeyman

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> But what if you're RCN and entitled to wear a PPCLI Tshirt?


There's a joke in there, _somewhere_, citing the CF Transgender policy........


----------



## medicineman

Or he has multiple personallity disorder and should be on a PCat...

MM


----------



## ctipz

Does any one have a reference for daily shaving?  I have looked in the Dress and Deportment Manual (A-DH-265-000/AG-001).  It has everything but shaving in it.  QR&O 17.02 also has nothing on shaving requirements.

Thank You

_- mod edit for spelling -_


----------



## stealthylizard

I don't have the references, but pretty simply, shave every 24 hours (either before bed, or first thing in the morning), unless you have a shaving chit.  Rules may be relaxed in the field.


----------



## AmmoTech90

If you don't shave you grow a beard.  Unless authoized you cannot have a beard (this is in the dress manual).  Ergo you must shave often enough that you do not have a beard.  Following this you (or your leaders) have to exercise judgement.  I have a significant shadow come 4 pm.  I do not shave before going home, however if I have to come into work at, say 2359, and the last time I shaved was at 0600, I would shave.  If you do not grow a beard (or any sort) then you would not have to shave.


----------



## medicineman

If you look in the 265, IIRC, at the beginning about what a serviceperson should look like and how they should behave, it's there.  You actually have to read it though - words to the effect that "soldiers/sailors/air people are to be clean shaven, have neatly trimmed hair IAW with specifications, no visible piercings other than those prescribed in the regulations..." etc.

Barring that, if you were told to shave on a daily basis or a Base Standing Order says you must be clean shaven to wander into your eating mess, etc, well you were told.

MM


----------



## the 48th regulator

I have to agree with the OP, the QR & Os are pretty vague;

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-01/chapter-chapitre-017-eng.asp#cha-017-02

However MM is correct in that in CFP 265, it states the following;


*(3) Beards (see Figure 2-2-2) *
(a) Subject to procedures established
by commanders of commands,
permission to wear a beard shall
only be granted to all ranks who
wear the naval uniform, wherever
serving; all ranks on strength of an
infantry pioneer platoon; adherents
of the Sikh religion (see Section 3);
and personnel, on the direction of a
medical officer, subject to medical
reassessment at intervals not
exceeding six months. Other
personnel shall shave off their
beards.

http://cs.uwindsor.ca/~fitzpatr/A-DH-265-000.pdf


----------



## dapaterson

Among the most stupid existing regulations.  Either beards are safe and can be worn, or are unsafe and cannot be worn.  This is ripe for appeal to bodies outside the military, who will overturn these archaic, foolish regulations.

Perhaps at the same time someone will explain how subdued earrings on women are safe, yet on men represent a threat to the security of the nation.

Dress regs are long overdue for an update to a more unisex model.


----------



## Tank Troll

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Among the most stupid existing regulations.  Either beards are safe and can be worn, or are unsafe and cannot be worn.  This is ripe for appeal to bodies outside the military, who will overturn these archaic, foolish regulations.
> 
> Perhaps at the same time someone will explain how subdued earrings on women are safe, yet on men represent a threat to the security of the nation.
> 
> Dress regs are long overdue for an update to a more unisex model.



Good post I've been saying this for years. Times change why can't we? Every one keeps talking about equality, racism and sexism and we have been sharpend, diversified, and harassed to death about harassment yet it means nothing unless all rules apply equally to every one. Why can't every one that wants to grow a beard or Goatee grow one if it doesn't interfear with their job. If I want to grow long side burns then why not? If i want to grow my hair and put it in a pony tail, bun, or baraids then why not? (okay maybe not a bun)  As soon as some one puts a "except for" clause in then it is a useless rule.


----------



## Sigs Pig

Was there ever an allowance for shaving, haircuts, etc.? I seen to have heard of such and it was merged into the salary.

ME


----------



## medicineman

Sigs Pig said:
			
		

> Was there ever an allowance for shaving, haircuts, etc.? I seen to have heard of such and it was merged into the salary.
> 
> ME



For your shaving and haircuts, etc, it was/is your paycheque.  For uniforms, before the points and stuff came in, it was the Clothing Upkeep Allowance.

MM


----------



## Dkeh

dapaterson said:
			
		

> ...Either beards are safe and can be worn, or are unsafe and cannot be worn...



One of the things I had been previously told was that beards interfered with the seal a gas mask would create, which I can understand. 

Not going anywhere with this, just making an observation.


----------



## TN2IC

medicineman said:
			
		

> For your shaving and haircuts, etc, it was/is your paycheque.  For uniforms, before the points and stuff came in, it was the Clothing Upkeep Allowance.
> 
> MM



I do miss those days. But we can't change the subject here.

Regards,
Macey


----------



## Jimmy_D

In ref to beards in gas masks. I have seen member with beards have a perfect seal while wearing the gas mask with the addition of Vaseline. Though after putting the Vaseline into their beard they chose to shave, because of less hassle.


----------



## Scott

If you wear respiratory protective equipment for your job and you wear a beard you are an idiot, full stop. I know that some people can achieve a clean seal with bear grease, vaseline, pipe dope, but that really has nothing to do with the fact that the best seal is achieved where no facial hair interferes with the seal.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Not to mention, that in an emergency when time is vital to your existence, trying to slather on vaseline, hoping to achieve a seal is just stupid. :facepalm:


----------



## Sythen

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Among the most stupid existing regulations.  Either beards are safe and can be worn, or are unsafe and cannot be worn.  This is ripe for appeal to bodies outside the military, who will overturn these archaic, foolish regulations.



Guy in my old section has psoriasis and therefore was allowed to grow a beard, because having to shave would cause him physical harm, ie: not safe. I am just lazy and didn't want to shave every day. It does not hurt me to shave so I don't see how this is a stupid regulation. If you want a beard, there are many places you can work that will allow it. No one sprang this on you last minute, its been policy forever and a day.


----------



## Infanteer

It's a ABCA tradition, and a relatively new one at that as beards where en vogue in Edwardian Britain.  Big moustaches seemed to take hold in the trenches.

Most foreign armies, including many of the European armies I've worked with, allow beards/goatees/sideburns and don't seem to suffer for it.  It is more than likely a cultural thing.


----------



## dapaterson

My point:  If a beard is dangerous, then no one should wear one.  Sailors - sorry.  Pioneers (if we get them back) - sorry.

This half-assed "Well, Sailors have a 1643 dispensation from shaving" or other BS is ridiculous - one set of rules or safety, without historical whinges.

(Though I am aware of the new rules for sailors - no beard if you sail a ship, but they're fine if you sail a desk - another triumph of stupidity and of building us vs them)


And if they aren't a danger, or the risk can be mitigated, then the question remains - why?


----------



## Journeyman

Sythen said:
			
		

> .... I don't see how this is a stupid regulation. If you want a beard, there are many places you can work that will allow it. No one sprang this on you last minute, its been policy forever and a day.


Wow, _someone_ had an extra swig of the 'never pass a fault' koolaid.  

Officers don't have batmen...Baldrick...and we don't volley-fire on the left foot anymore either. Things change.


----------



## Sythen

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Wow, _someone_ had an extra swig of the 'never pass a fault' koolaid.
> 
> Officers don't have batmen...Baldrick...and we don't volley-fire on the left foot anymore either. Things change.



Maybe we should stop expecting people to polish boots too.. Or to wash their clothes.. Heck, drill is stupid and no one likes doing it!  :bla-bla:


----------



## Journeyman

Maybe we _should_ consider all of those things. 

I'm not suggesting we change any of them, merely that minds closed to change solely because it's "been policy forever and a day" probably don't serve anyone well.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

The OP has his answer.

I don't see much sense in going through this whole shaving thing yet again.

If interested, search up all the previous discussion already here.


Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Loachman

recceguy said:
			
		

> Not to mention, that in an emergency when time is vital to your existence, trying to slather on vaseline, hoping to achieve a seal is just stupid. :facepalm:



I am posting through the lock to point out, again, that attempting to use Vaseline or any other similar product to achieve a better seal is inadvisable.

As thousands of US hippies discovered the hard way during the sixties and seventies, certain agents, CS included, will bind to Vaseline and therefore increase the effects upon skin, especially as washing it off is much more difficult.

Lethal agents would, obviously, present an even greater problem.

Masks need to be properly sized, and beards need to be removed, in order to provide a proper seal.


----------



## Jarnhamar

My roommate told me yesterday about everything at shoppers drugmart being cheaper since the last Thursday is military appreciation day.  I commented that it would be good to stock up on razors and he agreed suggesting that shaving every day is probably as expensive as smoking.

I'm not sure how accurate that is but shaving IS frigging expensive so it made me think-should the cf pay for razors?


It (cf)doesn't pay for smoking because it's a choice.
It pays for prescription glasses because you need to see (doesn't pay for laser surgery)
If you're required to wear civilian attire for a job you get a clothing allowance.
Hell if you jump out of airplanes you even get extra money.

What about shaving? We're required to shave every day (unless we have a having chit)  and it's expensive.  Members who are on a chit and don't shave save decent money.

What about an allowance for razors?


----------



## SeaKingTacco

You are joking, right?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

:facepalm:


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Then there would have to be one for toothpaste, shampoo, deodorant...etc.   That won't happen either.

I agree the stuff is expensive.  I go to Walmart around Christmas and buy those 'combo packs' that have about 2 months of disposables with shaving gel for $10-$15 bucks and get enough of 'em to do me the year.  Makes it alittle cheaper than the gucci stuff.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Use regular soap and a shaving brush instead of that fancy canned foam.

Invest in a good straight razor. It'll last for years.

Just learn how to use it properly.

Heaven forbid you cut your throat and deprive us of all the thought provoking questions you post  :


----------



## Towards_the_gap

recceguy said:
			
		

> Heaven forbid you cut your throat and deprive us of all the thought provoking questions you post  :



That, sir, made my day.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

Thank You Obedientiazelum, I needed a chuckle this morning.


Wait!  You're serious?

Then what about a Bra allowance for women?  Under the regs, they are required to wear one under their DEU shirt - and bras are expansive (at least the fancy ones I buy for my wife once a year at Christmas as a gift to myself are, but I digress).

Anyhow, if you don't want to spend money on shaving, why don't you ask for a transfer to the Navy?


----------



## medicineman

I never realized how pampered I was in the CF until I went to the private sector - lots of stuff I need to do my job comes from my pocket with little hope of recompense.  I too am required to maintian a professional appearance but don't get a clothing or grooming allowance...I get a salary.

I'm kind of surprised, using the same logic, that people haven't tried saying that, since CF members are legally obligated to attend work, their car or bus or bicycle should be paid for by the CF as well...I'd vote for that, even get back in ;D.

MM


----------



## PMedMoe

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Then what about a Bra allowance for women?  Under the regs, they are required to wear one under their DEU shirt - and bras are expansive (at least the fancy ones I buy for my wife once a year at Christmas as a gift to myself are, but I digress).



There _is_ a bra allowance.  But only because underwear (with the exception of bras) is provided in the Supply system.  $160 per year.


----------



## Jarnhamar

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> You are joking, right?



Uh huh, testing a theory with $10 on the line.

Though the suggestion of a straight razor is interesting.


----------



## 57Chevy

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> it made me think



Are you sure ?



			
				ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Hell if you jump out of airplanes you even get extra money.
> ---
> What about an allowance for razors?



Can you actually compare this ? :facepalm:


----------



## Scott

When I was Shanghai'd to Uzbekistan a few years ago I ended up running out of blades for my Mach3. One of the camp staff got me some throwaways, the ones you can buy for 99 cents apiece. They worked just fine. When I got home I got the old Excel which is considerably cheaper than the Mach3 or the new and improved 16 blade whatever they have now - perhaps you should think of that...

I buy all of my shave gels in the UK now. King of Shaves. One tube lasts me six months no probs and it's awesome on my skin.

Now, if you'd kindly rethink this line of posting, we all know recruits need to carry a spare razor for their locker inspection and we don't want one of those electronic weenies trying to put in a claim for the spares.


----------



## George Wallace

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Thank You Obedientiazelum, I needed a chuckle this morning.
> 
> 
> Wait!  You're serious?
> 
> Then what about a Bra allowance for women?  Under the regs, they are required to wear one under their DEU shirt - and bras are expansive (at least the fancy ones I buy for my wife once a year at Christmas as a gift to myself are, but I digress).




If only...... ;D

Then all our female members would be asking for a razor allowance as well (for their legs and underarms), sanitary napkins, Neet, etc.  

Where would you like to draw the line?


----------



## Bluebulldog

You know......if it hasn't been done. There's a thought.

In the absence of an allowance, keep all the related receipts from razors, and anything else attributed to conforming with the regs.

Come tax time submit same as a employment expense, and enclose a copy of the pertinent reg.

You'd probably be surprise at what CRA might let you get away with.

OK..........just a response.......I didn't start the thread, but since I already read all the posts...I might as well have at it and weigh in....


----------



## Scott

Go ahead and try that with CRA. Just make sure you keep the offset in reserve plus a little extra for the stupid tax.


----------



## Bluebulldog

Scott said:
			
		

> Go ahead and try that with CRA. Just make sure you keep the offset in reserve plus a little extra for the stupid tax.



Indeed. I didn't say I was going to try it. But if a member was keen.....

I have however seen a lot of employment expenses allowed with much of the same backup.....it depends on who's scrutinizing the return at the other end i'm sure.


----------



## George Wallace

Bluebulldog said:
			
		

> You know......if it hasn't been done. There's a thought.
> 
> In the absence of an allowance, keep all the related receipts from razors, and anything else attributed to conforming with the regs.
> 
> Come tax time submit same as a employment expense, and enclose a copy of the pertinent reg.
> 
> You'd probably be surprise at what CRA might let you get away with.
> 
> OK..........just a response.......I didn't start the thread, but since I already read all the posts...I might as well have at it and weigh in....



Are you one of these guys who thinks they can claim for haircuts as well?


----------



## chrisf

I thought this was part of what "incidentals" was intended to cover under TD claims?


----------



## George Wallace

Should I ask for an allowance for "Breathing".   I am required to do that on a regular basis.


----------



## Scott

Bluebulldog said:
			
		

> Indeed. I didn't say I was going to try it. But if a member was keen.....
> 
> I have however seen a lot of employment expenses allowed with much of the same backup.....it depends on who's scrutinizing the return at the other end i'm sure.



Guys who get stupid with that sort of shit are the ones that make it very difficult, and more costly, for the rest of us who have genuine honest items on our returns. Seriously, it's been mentioned before, the amount of freebies that go with military service far outweigh the minor cost of a fucking set of razor blades, boot polish, haircuts, etc.


----------



## aesop081

Can we please send this thread to where ever stupid threads go to die ?


----------



## Bluebulldog

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Are you one of these guys who thinks they can claim for haircuts as well?



Not at all George. But if someone's going to spitball an idea about claiming an allowance, I work on civvy street, just had the thought and figured I'd put it out there.



			
				Scott said:
			
		

> Guys who get stupid with that sort of crap are the ones that make it very difficult, and more costly, for the rest of us who have genuine honest items on our returns. Seriously, it's been mentioned before, the amount of freebies that go with military service far outweigh the minor cost of a ******* set of razor blades, boot polish, haircuts, etc.



No arguments on my part Scott. OZ simply put out a bit of an absurd idea, as I said before, simply in the spirit of the discussion, I had the thought as well. Speaking completely in the abstract, not as a matter to be actioned on



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Can we please send this thread to where ever stupid threads go to die ?



Agreed.


----------



## Jarnhamar

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Can we please send this thread to where ever stupid threads go to die ?



Giver, I have $10 in my pocket 

Sent a PM


----------



## Fishbone Jones

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Can we please send this thread to where ever stupid threads go to die ?



It was immediately moved to Radio Chatter, where it belonged in the first place, after it was posted.

Don't post to it and it'll die on it's own.

Staff


----------



## PuckChaser

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how accurate that is but shaving IS frigging expensive so it made me think-should the cf pay for razors?



Costco. 50 bucks for 16 Fusion razor blades, lasts me over 6 months with shaving 5 times a week. 10 bucks a month isn't expensive, I spend more than that on beers at the ranks in a week on Thursdays.


----------



## Nostix

Buy a double-edged safety razor. Higher initial cost, around $50-100.

Shaves are great, and blades are cheap. You can grab a 50 blade pack for anywhere from $10-25. That lasts me almost a year of heavy shaving.


----------



## dogger1936

I'm gonna put in for all my booze at the last mess dinner. It seemed like a work related expense that I get absolutely inebriated beyond the norm. The RSM ordered us to have a good time for ourselves! ;D


----------



## Haggis

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I'm gonna put in for all my booze at the last mess dinner. It seemed like a work related expense that I get absolutely inebriated beyond the norm. The RSM ordered us to have a good time for ourselves! ;D



Do you have receipts?


----------



## dogger1936

Haggis said:
			
		

> Do you have receipts?



I'm gonna have to get an accountant to figure it all out from the pockets full of quarters and loonies in my mess kit. ;D


----------



## George Wallace

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I'm gonna put in for all my booze at the last mess dinner. It seemed like a work related expense that I get absolutely inebriated beyond the norm. The RSM ordered us to have a good time for ourselves! ;D



I think we should have the Government conduct an Environmental Assessment on this.  I volunteer my services as a SME.  We can assess the amount of alcohol that members have individually filtered out of the products consummed at Mess Dinners so that a less harmful liquid can be returned to the environment.  Results of this environmental assessment may be cause to affect a Bill to be passed in Parliament to contract out persons to filter out the alcohol from numerous products produced and sold through Brewers Retail, The Beer Store, LCBO, and other institutions across the nation.  It is dangerous work, but someone has to do it.

GO GREEN.

Cattle are the largest producers of methane on the planet.
Save the environment.  Eat more Beef.


----------



## Bluebulldog

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I think we should have the Government conduct an Environmental Assessment on this.  I volunteer my services as a SME.  We can assess the amount of alcohol that members have individually filtered out of the products consummed at Mess Dinners so that a less harmful liquid can be returned to the environment.  Results of this environmental assessment may be cause to affect a Bill to be passed in Parliament to contract out persons to filter out the alcohol from numerous products produced and sold through Brewers Retail, The Beer Store, LCBO, and other institutions across the nation.  It is dangerous work, but someone has to do it.
> 
> GO GREEN.



I wonder if the issue could be mitigated by consuming "Organic" beer?


----------



## vonGarvin

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> suggesting that shaving every day is probably as expensive as smoking.


As a former smoker, let me tell you that this is absolute BS.


----------



## Pusser

Shaving is overrated.  Just say no!


----------



## Haggis

Pusser said:
			
		

> Shaving is overrated.  Just say no!



How about we get some Army.ca members (Obedientia Zeluim, for example) to try this out with their local RSM/Coxn?  We can then all view the results here.

Just a thought.....


----------



## Infanteer

To inject a bit of realism here, has anyone stopped to consider that the thing called a salary, which is one of the highest throughout the world when compared to other militaries, is meant to cover things like that?

The growth of benefits and allowances makes me wonder what a salary is meant to remunerate the soldier for....


----------



## fraserdw

Infanteer said:
			
		

> To inject a bit of realism here, has anyone stopped to consider that the thing called a salary, which is one of the highest throughout the world when compared to other militaries, is meant to cover things like that?
> 
> The growth of benefits and allowances makes me wonder what a salary is meant to remunerate the soldier for....



I so agree, we just had a young lady writing a letter to the editor claiming that she was entitled to a PMQ because her husband was in the military and that CFHA had no right to kick them out for misbehavior.  It is the continuous belief that we (soldiers) are entitled to stuff at the tax payers expense  that scares me more than all the Canadians that want to get rid of us.


----------



## Jarnhamar

57Chevy said:
			
		

> Can you actually compare this ? :facepalm:



We all know paratroopers will PAY $200 a month in order to jump out of planes-and tell everyone about it  





			
				Haggis said:
			
		

> How about we get some Army.ca members (Obedientia Zeluim, for example) to try this out with their local RSM/Coxn?  We can then all view the results here.
> 
> Just a thought.....



I accept! I won't shave for the next month.


----------



## George Wallace

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I accept! I won't shave for the next month.



I see someone just started their BLOCK LEAVE.    :nod:


----------



## PuckChaser

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I accept! I won't shave for the next month.



I started a week ahead! I predicted this thread it seems.  >


----------



## CombatDoc

Skip the blades and shaving gel.  

Go to Costco.  Buy an electric razor with Li-ion battery.  Plug it in.  Shave every day for one month on the one charge.  Then, plug it in again for 8 hours.  Repeat.

Or, you could just join the Navy.   8)


----------



## Gunner98

Give one of these a try: http://www.razorpit.ca/  

I did and then after a few months I bought one for each of my sons.  It does an amazing job at cleaning the blade.


----------



## Shamrock

[quote author=ObedientiaZelum]
What about an allowance for razors? 
[/quote]

Military Factor - your razor, haircut, dry cleaning are already part of your pay. 

Edit- fixed link. Many thanks.


----------



## PuckChaser

Shamrock said:
			
		

> http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/faq/index-eng.asp - your razor, haircut, dry cleaning are already part of your pay.



Your hyperlink was broken, fixed it for you in the quote.


----------



## brihard

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Giver, I have $10 in my pocket



So, gonna enlighten us on the bet?


----------



## dogger1936

You know what I'd like to see the army issue while deployed? Watches. I had one watch fry in an explosion, and another just died while in Panjuai. Luckily I convinced the ANA to go buy me Casio's for 1 dollar each time.

Watches and timings are important!!


----------



## Maxadia

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Give one of these a try: http://www.razorpit.ca/
> 
> I did and then after a few months I bought one for each of my sons.  It does an amazing job at cleaning the blade.



That looks interesting, especially seeing as cleaning and drying your blade is supposed to increase its life by 50%.

Personally, I'm hoping these guys get their act together soon, as they state that "We do not *yet* ship to Canada."

http://www.dollarshaveclub.com/


----------



## TN2IC

Okay that is it.... 

-When a member joins the CF, they should have laser hair removal process during their Basic Training. Funding by the CF.


-For other CF members, report to your local CDU for the treatment. Wait out for the new CANFORGEN.


-Retired members can have it done on their dime, then submit a claim to Vetran Affairs. They will also retro the cost from your enlistment date until you got out. And the pain and suffering of shaving in the field. 



Think about it? We want efficient soldiers. The RCR's will be all over this one.

*See, I think outside of the box*

Macey for CDS!!!


----------



## dapaterson

Pusser said:
			
		

> Shaving is overrated.  Just say no!



Only works for pseudo-sailors who don't go to sea.

In fact, you don't need the SSI to tell who's been to sea the most - if they have a beard, they're landlubbers.  Real sailors shave.


----------



## agc

http://youtu.be/I_tFZXk4YJc

Quite effective trick to extend the life of your disposable blades.


----------



## Pusser

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Only works for pseudo-sailors who don't go to sea.
> 
> In fact, you don't need the SSI to tell who's been to sea the most - if they have a beard, they're landlubbers.  Real sailors shave.



Nonsense.  I haven't shaved regularly for 25 years and I've spent a good chunk of that time at sea.  This BS about having to shave while posted to ships is recent and unneccessary in my view.  Never once in the last 25 years have I ever had problems achieving a seal on a chemox set or a gas mask (just did the gas hut last month).  This whole anti-beard hysteria is probably being pushed by a bunch of fit-testing fanatics who can't grow one!  But I digress...


----------



## jollyjacktar

Pusser said:
			
		

> Nonsense.  I haven't shaved regularly for 25 years and I've spent a good chunk of that time at sea.  This BS about having to shave while posted to ships is recent and unneccessary in my view.  Never once in the last 25 years have I ever had problems achieving a seal on a chemox set or a gas mask (just did the gas hut last month).  This whole anti-beard hysteria is probably being pushed by a bunch of fit-testing fanatics who can't grow one!  But I digress...


Recent?  In the context of 25 years, yes.  But it has been around for quite a while now.  We don't tuck our socks in our pants anymore either, or use the old methods of FF either.  Things have evolved, and the attitude has moved on from what was.  Beards are not a big issue with the younger generation of sailors today.


----------



## Scott

Pusser said:
			
		

> Nonsense.  I haven't shaved regularly for 25 years and I've spent a good chunk of that time at sea.  This BS about having to shave while posted to ships is recent and unneccessary in my view.  Never once in the last 25 years have I ever had problems achieving a seal on a chemox set or a gas mask (just did the gas hut last month).  This whole anti-beard hysteria is probably being pushed by a bunch of fit-testing fanatics who can't grow one!  But I digress...



This is the single most idiotic statement I have ever seen on this forum, and I find myself having to wade into the recruiting threads quite often. 

Just because you achieved the seal under training conditions doesn't mean a damned thing. And arguing your point based on _tradition or what *you* have done for 25 years_, rather than *best practice* is both infantile and stupid. 

You're an educated man, and a beard trips you up? The curb ain't that high.



			
				jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Recent?  In the context of 25 years, yes.  But it has been around for quite a while now.  We don't tuck our socks in our pants anymore either, or use the old methods of FF either.  Things have evolved, and the attitude has moved on from what was.  Beards are not a big issue with the younger generation of sailors today.



Careful, you're bucking _tradition_. You might just find yourself turfed or tied to a yard arm or flogged with executive curls or something.

Very nice to see someone who is actually in touch with reality, thanks.


----------



## Pusser

Scott said:
			
		

> This is the single most idiotic statement I have ever seen on this forum, and I find myself having to wade into the recruiting threads quite often.
> 
> Just because you achieved the seal under training conditions doesn't mean a damned thing. And arguing your point based on _tradition or what *you* have done for 25 years_, rather than *best practice* is both infantile and stupid.
> 
> You're an educated man, and a beard trips you up? The curb ain't that high.



If mine is the most idiotic statement you've seen on this forum, then you need to get out more. ;D

My point has nothing to do with tradition.  I just like wearing a beard and I can say without one word of a lie that it has never caused me an issue.  And yes, I've been in real fires.  If this really is "best practice," then prove it.  Otherwise, it's an unneccessary restriction.  Consider the following:

1) What are we doing with people who fail fit tests while clean-shaven?  Do we kick them out?  Do we make them get implants?   The answer to both these questions is of course, no.  That being the case, how can we put a restriction on something that *might* affect someone's performance when we place no such restriction on others whose performance is definitely affected?

2) There is an argument to be made that a soft full beard, which will fold and compress under the seal fo the mask, will actually allow a better seal than a few hours worth of stubble, which will act like a tent pole and hold the rubber off the face.

3)  The fit-testing gurus claim that you cannot achieve a seal with a beard, but how would they know, considering that they specifically prohibit you from doing their fit test with a beard?  To put it simply, if I fail a fit test with a beard, then I will happily shave it off, but no one has yet let me to that.  The current situation is a lot like saying someone has to successfully complete the BFT before being allowed to attempt the Expres Test.

Now people may get upset with what I'm saying, but it is my opinion and I'm allowed to have one of those.  No one can live inside someone else's mask, be it a gas mask, chemox set, Scott pack or full chemical suit (and I've used all of these), so getting angry because you don't agree with another person's assessment of the situation is pointless.  In my view, we should test people as they are and if they pass, fine.  If not, then we can look at what needs to be changed.


----------



## dangerboy

Pusser said:
			
		

> Nonsense.  I haven't shaved regularly for 25 years and I've spent a good chunk of that time at sea.  This BS about having to shave while posted to ships is recent and unneccessary in my view.  Never once in the last 25 years have I ever had problems achieving a seal on a chemox set or a gas mask (just did the gas hut last month).  This whole anti-beard hysteria is probably being pushed by a bunch of fit-testing fanatics who can't grow one!  But I digress...



Of course one thing to remember with regards to the Gas Hut and the reason you are allowed to have a beard in the hut is CS is a particulate training agent and not a molecular sized lethal agent.


----------



## TN2IC

This is why I'm saying laser hair removal troops! Gssh...


----------



## Pusser

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Of course one thing to remember with regards to the Gas Hut and the reason you are allowed to have a beard in the hut is CS is a particulate training agent and not a molecular sized lethal agent.



Fair enough.  If we go charging off to Syria (who have threatened to use chemical and/or biological weapons against "foreign" invaders) in the near future, I will then re-think my approach.  Everything is situation-dependent.


----------



## Disenchantedsailor

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Thank You Obedientiazelum, I needed a chuckle this morning.
> 
> 
> Wait!  You're serious?
> 
> Then what about a Bra allowance for women?  Under the regs, they are required to wear one under their DEU shirt - and bras are expansive (at least the fancy ones I buy for my wife once a year at Christmas as a gift to myself are, but I digress).
> 
> Anyhow, if you don't want to spend money on shaving, why don't you ask for a transfer to the Navy?



Opppps there is a Bra allowance


----------



## Scott

You're trying to preach to someone who is both an emergency responder and a competent fit tester, I have also fought more than a few fires. I figured I should make you aware of that before you waste any more of your time arguing something so simple. However, in the interest of trying to lead the blind, I will answer:



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> 1) What are we doing with people who fail fit tests while clean-shaven?  Do we kick them out?  Do we make them get implants?   The answer to both these questions is of course, no.  That being the case, how can we put a restriction on something that *might* affect someone's performance when we place no such restriction on others whose performance is definitely affected?



If it is a requirement of your job to wear respiratory protective equipment then you should be face fit tested on such. If you fail to achieve the face fit test due to facial shape, scarring, absence of dentures during the test, etc. then you should be supplied with a respirator that fits or removed from the job that requires you to wear the respirator. This doesn't seem like rocket appliances to me, Ricky.

In ten years of carrying out face fit tests I have had TWO people fail, and my numbers for total subjects run through must be over 5,000 by now. One was an Oriental female (who we then procured an extra small mask for) the other was a dude who just had new dentures fitted and thought he wouldn't wear them for the test because he didn't wear them while working - he changed that and was fine. 

My point is that this is a rare thing to have happen. I have only even heard about it from colleagues maybe twice more - so what does that tell you? The kit is designed to be as generic as possible. There is also never a guarantee which is why they print those big disclaimers on the kit. That said, being clean shaven gives you the best chance.

So what's your point?



> 2) There is an argument to be made that a soft full beard, which will fold and compress under the seal fo the mask, will actually allow a better seal than a few hours worth of stubble, which will act like a tent pole and hold the rubber off the face.



There is no argument. Clean shaven means clean shaven. A few hours of stubble hardly compares to a full beard. You're grasping at straws.



> 3)  The fit-testing gurus claim that you cannot achieve a seal with a beard, but how would they know, considering that they specifically prohibit you from doing their fit test with a beard?  To put it simply, if I fail a fit test with a beard, then I will happily shave it off, but no one has yet let me to that.  The current situation is a lot like saying someone has to successfully complete the BFT before being allowed to attemp the Expres Test.



If I were to attempt to fit test you with a beard then I would be breaking the law. I suppose they have done such testing under laboratory conditions before they made the decision to impact on your personal sense of fashion. 

Clean shaven does not change. It's clean. If I test you with the beard then who is to say that the next week you don't have more of a scruff going which would then negate the results of the previous test, no? This is a reason why fit tests are mandated at two years and recommended every year or every time there is a change to the face (weight gain, scarring, falsies, etc)



> Now people may get upset with what I'm saying, but it is my opinion and I'm allowed to have one of those.  No one can live inside someone else's mask, be it a gas mask, chemox set, Scott pack or full chemical suit (and I've used all of these), so getting angry because you don't agree with another person's assessment of the situation is pointless.  In my view, we should test people as they are and if they pass, fine.  If not, then we can look at what needs to be changed.



Your opinion based on an emotional response - that YOU do not want to shave *stomp, stomp, stomp* This worked for YOU before *stomp, stomp, stomp* Yeah, I get it. It's an antiquated view and one that does not give me any warm and fuzzes about your ability to pick a battle. As someone said in the socks in the mess thread: is this the hill you'd choose to die on?

What upsets me is when anyone who could be put into a leadership position displays such an ignorant attitude towards best practices and current standards for safety. It also pisses me off, as one of those guys who might have to drag a bearded carcass out of danger when a face seal fails, because I will have to put myself at risk if said bearded clown goes down.


----------



## Disenchantedsailor

Pusser said:
			
		

> If mine is the most idiotic statement you've seen on this forum, then you need to get out more. ;D
> 
> My point has nothing to do with tradition.  I just like wearing a beard and I can say without one word of a lie that it has never caused me an issue.  And yes, I've been in real fires.  If this really is "best practice," then prove it.  Otherwise, it's an unneccessary restriction.  Consider the following:
> 
> 1) What are we doing with people who fail fit tests while clean-shaven?  Do we kick them out?  Do we make them get implants?   The answer to both these questions is of course, no.  That being the case, how can we put a restriction on something that *might* affect someone's performance when we place no such restriction on others whose performance is definitely affected?
> 
> 2) There is an argument to be made that a soft full beard, which will fold and compress under the seal fo the mask, will actually allow a better seal than a few hours worth of stubble, which will act like a tent pole and hold the rubber off the face.
> 
> 3)  The fit-testing gurus claim that you cannot achieve a seal with a beard, but how would they know, considering that they specifically prohibit you from doing their fit test with a beard?  To put it simply, if I fail a fit test with a beard, then I will happily shave it off, but no one has yet let me to that.  The current situation is a lot like saying someone has to successfully complete the BFT before being allowed to attempt the Expres Test.
> 
> Now people may get upset with what I'm saying, but it is my opinion and I'm allowed to have one of those.  No one can live inside someone else's mask, be it a gas mask, chemox set, Scott pack or full chemical suit (and I've used all of these), so getting angry because you don't agree with another person's assessment of the situation is pointless.  In my view, we should test people as they are and if they pass, fine.  If not, then we can look at what needs to be changed.



Pusser frankly theres no need to prove it.  The CF has adopted the NFPA standards for SCBA's (the new breathing kit) Firefighters used to have beards to and draw their breathing air from a little pocket around the nozzle caused by the pressure of water.  Guess what firefighters don't do it anymore, neither do we. I respect your privilege and desire to wear a beard, just don't put my rear on the line when your kit fails to function properly


----------



## Pusser

Scott said:
			
		

> You're trying to preach to someone who is both an emergency responder and a competent fit tester, I have also fought more than a few fires. I figured I should make you aware of that before you waste any more of your time arguing something so simple. However, in the interest of trying to lead the blind, I will answer:
> 
> If it is a requirement of your job to wear respiratory protective equipment then you should be face fit tested on such. If you fail to achieve the face fit test due to facial shape, scarring, absence of dentures during the test, etc. then you should be supplied with a respirator that fits or removed from the job that requires you to wear the respirator. This doesn't seem like rocket appliances to me, Ricky.
> 
> In ten years of carrying out face fit tests I have had TWO people fail, and my numbers for total subjects run through must be over 5,000 by now. One was an Oriental female (who we then procured an extra small mask for) the other was a dude who just had new dentures fitted and thought he wouldn't wear them for the test because he didn't wear them while working - he changed that and was fine.
> 
> My point is that this is a rare thing to have happen. I have only even heard about it from colleagues maybe twice more - so what does that tell you? The kit is designed to be as generic as possible. There is also never a guarantee which is why they print those big disclaimers on the kit. That said, being clean shaven gives you the best chance.
> 
> So what's your point?
> 
> There is no argument. Clean shaven means clean shaven. A few hours of stubble hardly compares to a full beard. You're grasping at straws.
> 
> If I were to attempt to fit test you with a beard then I would be breaking the law. I suppose they have done such testing under laboratory conditions before they made the decision to impact on your personal sense of fashion.
> 
> Clean shaven does not change. It's clean. If I test you with the beard then who is to say that the next week you don't have more of a scruff going which would then negate the results of the previous test, no? This is a reason why fit tests are mandated at two years and recommended every year or every time there is a change to the face (weight gain, scarring, falsies, etc)
> 
> Your opinion based on an emotional response - that YOU do not want to shave *stomp, stomp, stomp* This worked for YOU before *stomp, stomp, stomp* Yeah, I get it. It's an antiquated view and one that does not give me any warm and fuzzes about your ability to pick a battle. As someone said in the socks in the mess thread: is this the hill you'd choose to die on?
> 
> What upsets me is when anyone who could be put into a leadership position displays such an ignorant attitude towards best practices and current standards for safety. It also pisses me off, as one of those guys who might have to drag a bearded carcass out of danger when a face seal fails, because I will have to put myself at risk if said bearded clown goes down.



I'm not trying to preach to anyone and I don't question your competence as a fit-tester.  All I have is my own experience to draw on.  It seems to me that you are the one who is getting emotional about this.  I'm not sitting here stomping my little feet or holding my breath until I turn blue.  I thought I was simply taking part in an academic discussion.  If I'm required to shave due to some policy that I disagree with, then I still will do so and without public complaint.  In fact, the last time I was at the DC school for fire-refresher training, I did exactly that.  I also fully recognize my leadership responsibilities here.  There is a difference between voicing an opinion on an internet forum and a public statement.  I have found myself enforcing policies numerous times over the years that I actually disagreed with, but did it anyway for the greater good of maintaining discipline.  However, that doesn't mean I couldn't disagree privately or bring it up with the chain of command during the decision making process.  The essence of leadership is that I am allowed to have an opinion and I am allowed and in fact, expected to make recommendations to my superiors for consideration.  Once the decision is made, regardless of whether I agree with it, I then enforce it as if it was my own.

I apologize if my opinion upsets you, but can you honestly say that you have agreed with every "best practice" or "current safety standard" over the years?  How many times have they changed?  Do you not think sometimes that they're a little over the top?  If we never question things, we never improve.  As for hauling my bearded carcass out of a fire?  I promise to do everything I can to ensure that doesn't happen.  Besides, my sea-going days are likely done.  

As for the socks in the mess thread, you obviously missed what I was getting at.  I really couldn't care less about socks in the mess.  My concern was that there was a junior NCO who was abusing his authority enforcing a policy of his own creation.  I wasn't taking on the dress regulations.  I was addressing an issue of poor leadership and yes, that is a hill I would be willing to die on.

Now, in an attempt to re-rail this, I disagree with the concept of the CF paying an allowance for razors, in spite of the fact that I might actually have to use one should I get deployed.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Pusser said:
			
		

> Fair enough.  If we go charging off to Syria (who have threatened to use chemical and/or biological weapons against "foreign" invaders) in the near future, I will then re-think my approach.  Everything is situation-dependent.



But then again, maybe we should grow beards to fit in with the locals?


----------



## GAP

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> But then again, maybe we should grow beards to fit in with the locals?



But then how would you know who to shoot? ......  ;D


----------



## dogger1936

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> But then again, maybe we should grow beards to fit in with the locals?



Absolutely not. People in that region respect our clean shaven faces and boot bands more than the security we can provide. Thats what our Battle Group RSM figured anyway.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> But then again, maybe we should grow beards to fit in with the locals?



Or let the mighty bearded ones remain unshaven, tempt fate, expire from exposure through a bad seal and relieve the rest of us from the incessant 'button and bows' and 'I'm entitled' diatribes every week.  :


----------



## Scott

Pusser said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to preach to anyone and I don't question your competence as a fit-tester.  All I have is my own experience to draw on.  It seems to me that you are the one who is getting emotional about this.  I'm not sitting here stomping my little feet or holding my breath until I turn blue.  I thought I was simply taking part in an academic discussion.  If I'm required to shave due to some policy that I disagree with, then I still will do so and without public complaint.  In fact, the last time I was at the DC school for fire-refresher training, I did exactly that.  I also fully recognize my leadership responsibilities here.  There is a difference between voicing an opinion on an internet forum and a public statement.  I have found myself enforcing policies numerous times over the years that I actually disagreed with, but did it anyway for the greater good of maintaining discipline.  However, that doesn't mean I couldn't disagree privately or bring it up with the chain of command during the decision making process.  The essence of leadership is that I am allowed to have an opinion and I am allowed and in fact, expected to make recommendations to my superiors for consideration.  Once the decision is made, regardless of whether I agree with it, I then enforce it as if it was my own.
> 
> I apologize if my opinion upsets you, but can you honestly say that you have agreed with every "best practice" or "current safety standard" over the years?  How many times have they changed?  Do you not think sometimes that they're a little over the top?  If we never question things, we never improve.  As for hauling my bearded carcass out of a fire?  I promise to do everything I can to ensure that doesn't happen.  Besides, my sea-going days are likely done.
> 
> As for the socks in the mess thread, you obviously missed what I was getting at.  I really couldn't care less about socks in the mess.  My concern was that there was a junior NCO who was abusing his authority enforcing a policy of his own creation.  I wasn't taking on the dress regulations.  I was addressing an issue of poor leadership and yes, that is a hill I would be willing to die on.
> 
> Now, in an attempt to re-rail this, I disagree with the concept of the CF paying an allowance for razors, in spite of the fact that I might actually have to use one should I get deployed.



You're STILL going? 

Buds, it's a beard. I am sure yours is _divine_ and totally faaaaaabulous. If you have to shave it then you have my sympathies, but it will grow back.


----------



## Scott

recceguy said:
			
		

> Or let the mighty bearded ones remain unshaven, tempt fate, expire from exposure through a bad seal and relieve the rest of us from the incessant 'button and bows' and 'I'm entitled' diatribes every week.  :



Indeed. It's just too bad that good men might have to risk their lives in order to mail order the body home.

Here lies XXX
Died due to increased fashion consciousness and an unwavering sense of tradition in the face of common sense.

That'll look great on a headstone.


----------



## Jarnhamar

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Absolutely not. People in that region respect our clean shaven faces and boot bands more than the security we can provide. Thats what our Battle Group RSM figured anyway.


Is that a pistol you're wearing? Take that off! That's a status symbol not something you're going to actually use for self defense.


----------



## dogger1936

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Is that a pistol you're wearing? Take that off! That's a status symbol not something you're going to actually use for self defense.



Not with me! My no hook driver had one; I would throw water bottles out for him to practice shooting from his compartment.


----------



## OldSolduer

Macey said:
			
		

> This is why I'm saying laser hair removal troops! Gssh...



While we're at it can we develop an eye, or eyes like cats, or eagles, or whatever that can see in the dark, then have it transplanted in a recruit's head?


----------



## aesop081

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> then have it transplanted in a recruit's head?



These days, the only thing i would like to see transplanted in many recruit's heads is a brain. I would settle for just that.


----------



## dogger1936

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> These days, the only thing i would like to see transplanted in many recruit's heads is a brain. I would settle for just that.



Or my fist.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Or my fist.



Hey, HEY! That might be someone's son or daughter your talking about there. Let's keep it jovial.


----------



## OldSolduer

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> These days, the only thing i would like to see transplanted in many recruit's heads is a brain. I would settle for just that.



They don't come out of recruit school ready to command the CF.  I am sure many old timers said similar things about us.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Maaaybe instead of having big fishbowls of free condoms at the MIR they could put packages of free Mach3 Razors?


----------



## aesop081

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I am sure many old timers said similar things about us.



I am sure also, but now, it's my turn.


----------



## George Wallace

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> But for razors, maaaaybe instead of having big fishbowls of free condoms at the MIR they could put packages of free Mach3 Razors?



It is hard to have a water fight with a Mach 3 razor.   >


Plus for those who prefer not to get out of the fart sack in the arctic to take a pee, a Mach 3 razor just doesn't serve the same purpose.

 > >


----------



## medicineman

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> But for razors, maaaaybe instead of having big fishbowls of free condoms at the MIR they could put packages of free Mach3 Razors?



Think the condoms would be easier to explain to the tax payers and the Globe and Mail...especially since they're cheaper and have lots of other functions, some of which have been noted earlier.  Besides, not everyone likes Mach 3's  ;D.  

MM


----------



## Jarnhamar

medicineman said:
			
		

> Think the condoms would be easier to explain to the tax payers and the Globe and Mail...especially since they're cheaper and have lots of other functions, some of which have been noted earlier.  Besides, not everyone likes Mach 3's  ;D.
> 
> MM



Are guys still telling their wives that the condoms in their gear is to put over their rifle barrel when it rains?   ;D


----------



## medicineman

Of course...amongst other things  :nod:.

MM


----------



## Metsuke

Oh, shaving for me is a utter nightmare XD Razor burn, bloody irritation, Gillette razors lying! They don't prevent irritation!!! Haha. 

Anyone fancy sharing some tips? For a good ol' shave. I need some experienced members of the shaving family  I am sick to death of that 'sunburn' feeling on my poor little face.


----------



## JoeDos

Metsuke said:
			
		

> Oh, shaving for me is a utter nightmare XD Razor burn, bloody irritation, Gillette razors lying! They don't prevent irritation!!! Haha.
> 
> Anyone fancy sharing some tips? For a good ol' shave. I need some experienced members of the shaving family  I am sick to death of that 'sunburn' feeling on my poor little face.



Unfortunately I will be of no help, every time I shave even with a new blade I tend to get nasty razor burn... I think there was one time when I used Conditioner as shaving gel/cream and it worked well.


----------



## Metsuke

Oh, its a nasty curse eh?? Im half a mind to let her' grow, but it gets to that stage where its so itchy, either I pull through and look a fool, with my blonde/brown hair, with a red beard.. As I also suffer from Red beard syndrome. I shall try conditioner  I have also tried baby lotion.. Works alright, but clogs the blade up something chronic.


----------



## JoeDos

Well I tend to only shave when it gets out of control, but since my aptitude test I try to shave as frequently as I can, that way when I do get my medical and interview scheduled at least I wont look the a homeless person haha.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

There is already a magnificent thread on how to decorticate ones physiognomy.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=shaving+army.ca

You're welcome. Try searching next time.

---Staff---


----------



## Pusser

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> Some of what you speak of is self inflicted. *Beards are a risk when doing CBRN tasks*. Sliders I can't speak to but other RCN pers told me it was an Admiral's direction.
> We're run by a bureaucracy IMO



Except that there is no requirement to be clean shaven for CBRN training, but there is for live fire-fighting training.  I've had to shave several times for fire-fighting, but never for CBRN.  Never had an issue doing push-ups, jumping-jacks or running around in the gas hut.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Pusser said:
			
		

> Except that there is no requirement to be clean shaven for CBRN training, but there is for live fire-fighting training.  I've had to shave several times for fire-fighting, but never for CBRN.  Never had an issue doing push-ups, jumping-jacks or running around in the gas hut.


It's been a while since you visited the DC school then.  All students must be clean shaven for training.  CBRN included.


----------



## Pusser

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> It's been a while since you visited the DC school then.  All students must be clean shaven for training.  CBRN included.



Just went through CBRN training a year ago in Ottawa.  They had no issue with my beard.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Pusser said:
			
		

> Just went through CBRN training a year ago in Ottawa.  They had no issue with my beard.


If you are required to attend training at the DC Div in Halifax down the road, be prepared to shave.  The only execption is Fall Arrest training, which doesn't require the wearing of a respirator or Dragger mask.  I expect Esquimault has the same policy as they are lead coast.


----------



## Halifax Tar

The current issue CAF gas mask was built and designed in an era when we had Pioneers and Sailors who all sported beards.  I have a beard, and have never had an issue in the gas hut and I even challenged the fire fighters on my last ship, HMCS Toronto, to test the fit test while I sported a beard, low and behold I passed the fit test without issue and well with in specifications.  

As for DC Div in Halifax, well if ever go there again I will do what is required to pass no matter how unfounded I personally believe it is.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

That's weird.  We were having issues with beards and fit tests at the fire hall.  I was also in Pioneers and was told that if ever deployed in a CRBN area we would be clean shaven.


----------



## Halifax Tar

Sheep Dog AT said:
			
		

> That's weird.  We were having issues with beards and fit tests at the fire hall.  I was also in Pioneers and was told that if ever deployed in a CRBN area we would be clean shaven.



I keep my beard short and tidy.  The Snr FF on Toronto was very supset that I passed.  He was almost angry.  But I think that's more because he personally didn't like them. 

I was actually told that the current issue GM was made with the beards of Pioneers and Sailors in mind and designed to accommodate them. 

I don't have anything to back that in way of reference just something I told.  I would be interested in reading anything on the subject though.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> The current issue CAF gas mask was built and designed in an era when we had Pioneers and Sailors who all sported beards.  I have a beard, and have never had an issue in the gas hut and I even challenged the fire fighters on my last ship, HMCS Toronto, to test the fit test while I sported a beard, low and behold I passed the fit test without issue and well with in specifications.
> 
> As for DC Div in Halifax, well if ever go there again I will do what is required to pass no matter how unfounded I personally believe it is.



You and Pusser may be able get a seal with confidence, but that doesn't mean the next guy will be able to do so.  I expect they want to work to the lowest denominator of not being able to get a seal.  And while the C4 mask may have been designed with Pioneers and Hairybags in mind, the Dragger was not.  Again, lowest denominator.  I expect that will be the driving factor behind that decision on protocol.


----------



## Scott

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> I keep my beard short and tidy.  The Snr FF on Toronto was very supset that I passed.  He was almost angry.  But I think that's more because he personally didn't like them.
> 
> I was actually told that the current issue GM was made with the beards of Pioneers and Sailors in mind and designed to accommodate them.
> 
> I don't have anything to back that in way of reference just something I told.  I would be interested in reading anything on the subject though.



I wouldn't have carried out the fit test on you and there wouldn't be a damned thing you could do about it. Not being a dink at all, just telling you that the rules are on the side of the guy telling you to go and shave prior to the test. FYI, I imagine the Snr FF you speak of was more pissed that he'd now have a can of worms opened because one dude passed the fit test with a beard and everyone else might be monkey see, monkey do. That's the other reason I'd flat out refuse you.

jollyjacktar has it: mask sizes are made for the masses, the common denominator. So is the instruction for gaining the best possible seal between face and face piece. Glasses are verboten for the same reasons. Just because I can get a seal with my safety glasses on doesn't make it correct and doesn't account for conditions you might encounter outside of the fit test.

Your best chance with RPE is ALWAYS when you're clean shaven. If that offends your personal sense of fashion and style, too bad. You always default to manufacturer's instructions - and I have yet to see one that doesn't mention being clean shaven.


----------



## Halifax Tar

Scott said:
			
		

> I wouldn't have carried out the fit test on you and there wouldn't be a damned thing you could do about it. Not being a dink at all, just telling you that the rules are on the side of the guy telling you to go and shave prior to the test. FYI, I imagine the Snr FF you speak of was more pissed that he'd now have a can of worms opened because one dude passed the fit test with a beard and everyone else might be monkey see, monkey do. That's the other reason I'd flat out refuse you.



I was already fit tested at this point.  This was a test to see if the (my) beard really mattered or had an effect.  He was adamant I would I fail and I disagreed so we tried it. 

As I am good little sailor I do as directed by my CoC and when ordered to shave I do so.  

At one of my previous units, which will remain nameless, I witnessed a guy fail the fit test, becuase of a beard.  The instructor (his friend) then donned the gas mask and passed the test for the person who had just failed because of his beard.


----------



## OldSolduer

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> I was already fit tested at this point.  This was a test to see if the (my) beard really mattered or had an effect.  He was adamant I would I fail and I disagreed so we tried it.
> 
> As I am good little sailor I do as directed by my CoC and when ordered to shave I do so.
> 
> At one of my previous units, which will remain nameless, I witnessed a guy fail the fit test, becuase of a beard.  The instructor (his friend) then donned the gas mask and passed the test for the person who had just failed because of his beard.



Thus placing his "buddy" and everyone else in danger. Did you report this breach of ethics? Because that's what it is.


----------



## krimynal

I currently have a beard excuse , but it is "illegal" only work in my unit ( not a regular medical for an army medical staff ).  

The thing is , I don't have my full permanent one , because it takes over a year to get it , and I am currently doing my CT... so they told me to use a civilian doctor , make me a paper , but if ever I had a B class or a full time course somewhere , I wouldn't be able to keep it.  

I am wondering, should I shave it if I go see the med for my CT ?? ( I would assume yes because I don't want him to put me in as un-fit ).


----------



## Scott

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> I was already fit tested at this point.  This was a test to see if the (my) beard really mattered or had an effect.  He was adamant I would I fail and I disagreed so we tried it.



Glad you clarified this. I still would have refused you. There are times when you simply have to point to the book, whether you like to or not. 



> As I am good little sailor I do as directed by my CoC and when ordered to shave I do so.



Good clarification here, too.



> At one of my previous units, which will remain nameless, I witnessed a guy fail the fit test, becuase of a beard.  The instructor (his friend) then donned the gas mask and passed the test for the person who had just failed because of his beard.



Thereby proving earlier points.

The beard had no effect on the test. No big deal. Throw stress, sweat, awkward additional kit (flash hood, helmet, collared jacket), awkward body positioning with all that kit into the mix and you run more risk when you have the beard. No harm when you're running through disco smoke, but a good shot of the stuff that comes from burning wires, diesel or other nasty bits and you are fucked - so are your teammates. 

The simple fact is that it works better with a clean surface - like a suction cup on a window.


----------



## Bzzliteyr

Krimynal.

Explique en francais SVP. votre premiere phrase est compliqué a comprendre. "illegal" chit? Someone at your work gave you an excuse beard? 

Only medical staff can issue a medical chit. There are units (Royal Winnipeg Rifles for example) that have chits for some of their troops as they are Pioneers. Is that what you mean?


----------



## krimynal

en gros , j'ai une excuse barbe depuis mon debut de QMB , par contre , elle étais régis par un médecin civile , mais mon unitée d'appartenance as accepter cela ( PRes Arty ).  Donc elle n'est pas régis par un médecin militaire.

Lorsque je suis arriver sur mon QS+PP1 cet été.  Mon excuse barbe étais refuser , mais eux m'en on donner une militaire temporaire de 2 mois , et parlais de me changer de catégorie médicale pour éviter les problèmes.  Ce que j'ai refuser en sachant que sa aurrais empecher mon transfert dans la régulière. 

Lorsque je suis revenue a mon unitée locale.  Ma chit médicale militaire étais échue , donc je suis retourner voir un médecin civile , mon unitée d'appartenance est d'accord avec sa , vue que c'est pour "m'accomoder" le temps que les transfert ce fasse.  J'ai parler avec des Tech Med en fin de semaine , ils m'ont expliquer les nouvelles procédure , mais je doit faire 1 demande de 2 semaines , ensuite une de 6 mois , pour finalement avoir mon excuse barbe permanente.  Par contre tant que je n'ai pas ma permanente finaliser et accepter.  Je suis un-fit.

donc en ce moment on fonctionne a mon unitée locale avec un papier civile.  Mais je sais que si je quitte pour un poste X-Y ou un cours X-Y , je ne pourrai pas la garder.  Même si un médecin militaire m'as dit que c'étais assurer que j'allais en avoir une permanente.  En ce moment , je ne peut pas commencer les démarches vue le temps de la procédure par rapport a mon transfert. 

( je ne sais pas si c'est plus clair comme sa )


----------



## Halifax Tar

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> Thus placing his "buddy" and everyone else in danger. Did you report this breach of ethics? Because that's what it is.



I did.


----------



## ballz

Completely off topic but I just received word that this item has shipped and I am super stoked to receive it and start learning how to use it.

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/BO140507

I bought a cheaper straight razor before (still have it) but failed to figure out how to maintain it. I think the maintenance supplies I bought were too cheap (mainly the strop). Anyone know what to look for in a good strop or have any recommendations? This razor is a bit more expensive so I don't want to bugger it up using cheap strops and such.


----------



## krimynal

krimynal said:
			
		

> en gros , j'ai une excuse barbe depuis mon debut de QMB , par contre , elle étais régis par un médecin civile , mais mon unitée d'appartenance as accepter cela ( PRes Arty ).  Donc elle n'est pas régis par un médecin militaire.
> 
> Lorsque je suis arriver sur mon QS+PP1 cet été.  Mon excuse barbe étais refuser , mais eux m'en on donner une militaire temporaire de 2 mois , et parlais de me changer de catégorie médicale pour éviter les problèmes.  Ce que j'ai refuser en sachant que sa aurrais empecher mon transfert dans la régulière.
> 
> Lorsque je suis revenue a mon unitée locale.  Ma chit médicale militaire étais échue , donc je suis retourner voir un médecin civile , mon unitée d'appartenance est d'accord avec sa , vue que c'est pour "m'accomoder" le temps que les transfert ce fasse.  J'ai parler avec des Tech Med en fin de semaine , ils m'ont expliquer les nouvelles procédure , mais je doit faire 1 demande de 2 semaines , ensuite une de 6 mois , pour finalement avoir mon excuse barbe permanente.  Par contre tant que je n'ai pas ma permanente finaliser et accepter.  Je suis un-fit.
> 
> donc en ce moment on fonctionne a mon unitée locale avec un papier civile.  Mais je sais que si je quitte pour un poste X-Y ou un cours X-Y , je ne pourrai pas la garder.  Même si un médecin militaire m'as dit que c'étais assurer que j'allais en avoir une permanente.  En ce moment , je ne peut pas commencer les démarches vue le temps de la procédure par rapport a mon transfert.
> 
> ( je ne sais pas si c'est plus clair comme sa )



I can try to translate it so it can be easier for everyone to understand my situation ?


----------



## PuckChaser

I think my French is good enough to understand what's up. If you have a legitimate medical issue for shaving, go through the tcat process so you eventually get a pcat that'll state "exempt shaving except for operational reasons". You may have some extra hoops to jump through for your ct, as you'll be on tcat, but once everything is done you won't have to carry a chit everywhere. I've had a few subordinates go through the process. It will take a while (year at least), but makes it official.


----------



## Kat Stevens

ballz said:
			
		

> Completely off topic but I just received word that this item has shipped and I am super stoked to receive it and start learning how to use it.
> 
> http://www.knifecenter.com/item/BO140507
> 
> I bought a cheaper straight razor before (still have it) but failed to figure out how to maintain it. I think the maintenance supplies I bought were too cheap (mainly the strop). Anyone know what to look for in a good strop or have any recommendations? This razor is a bit more expensive so I don't want to bugger it up using cheap strops and such.



Short, light strokes, use a good mug soap and soak your fuzz in water as hot as you can stand.  A good strop is thick, some have two sides, the one my dad had had some form of fine abrasive "cutting paste" applied to one side if memory serves.  All I really remember is that bugger stung across the back of the thighs!


----------



## KerryBlue

Ditto to what Kat said. I use both straight razors and safety razors and the key is very little pressure, let the edge do the work. Make sure you have a good shave soap/cream, not the foam Gillette crap, but one that is applied with a shave brush. Hot water opens the pores and work with the grain with the straight razor. 

This is an excellent YouTube channel with tutorials on straight razor shaving and maintaining your straight razor. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6UH1pRmUQ

I get most of my stuff for wet shaving here at Mark of A Gentleman a Toronto based online retailer who sell everything you would need. Here's the links for strops, I have Golden Tan Buffalo strop and it is excellent.  http://www.markofagentleman.com/a_pgs/catalog.html?cat=95


----------



## Jed

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Short, light strokes, use a good mug soap and soak your fuzz in water as hot as you can stand.  A good strop is thick, some have two sides, the one my dad had had some form of fine abrasive "cutting paste" applied to one side if memory serves.  All I really remember is that bugger stung across the back of the thighs!



Ha ha, me too. I was really choked when my two younger sisters threw the strop in the burning barrel, and didn't even get reprimanded.

The teacher in our two room school house knew the proper use of a razor strop, as well.


----------



## 421_434_226

I also remember the strop as a enforcement device, until my early teens when my mother found it on the splitting block chopped into 2" pieces, none of my 6 brothers ever confessed who carried out the chopping, although mom did graduate to a broom handle that year to keep us in line.


----------



## Tibbson

Gizmo 421 said:
			
		

> I also remember the strop as a enforcement device, until my early teens when my mother found it on the splitting block chopped into 2" pieces, none of my 6 brothers ever confessed who carried out the chopping, although mom did graduate to a broom handle that year to keep us in line.



Not too sure if that was a step down or a step up.   ???  I do recall a couple of my elementary school teacher having one in a desk drawer.


----------



## ballz

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> Ditto to what Kat said. I use both straight razors and safety razors and the key is very little pressure, let the edge do the work. Make sure you have a good shave soap/cream, not the foam Gillette crap, but one that is applied with a shave brush. Hot water opens the pores and work with the grain with the straight razor.
> 
> This is an excellent YouTube channel with tutorials on straight razor shaving and maintaining your straight razor.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6UH1pRmUQ
> 
> I get most of my stuff for wet shaving here at Mark of A Gentleman a Toronto based online retailer who sell everything you would need. Here's the links for strops, I have Golden Tan Buffalo strop and it is excellent.  http://www.markofagentleman.com/a_pgs/catalog.html?cat=95



Thanks for that post. I have been using brush / mug for a long time now, but I've only used Proraso shave soap and Omega brush because that's what they sell at Shopper's Drug Mart. I have nothing to compare it to, so I don't actually know if its any good, but it certainly was better than Gillette / etc stuff that comes in a can. Do you know if Proraso is "good" or not and do you have any recommendations?



			
				Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Short, light strokes, use a good mug soap and soak your fuzz in water as hot as you can stand.  A good strop is thick, some have two sides, the one my dad had had some form of fine abrasive "cutting paste" applied to one side if memory serves.  All I really remember is that bugger stung across the back of the thighs!



 :rofl: The childhood memories of the strop is actually hurting my stomach from laughing. I just want to encourage you all to continue for my own entertainment haha


----------



## KerryBlue

ballz said:
			
		

> Do you know if Proraso is "good" or not and do you have any recommendations?



Proraso is a good shaving soap, its been around 80 years and with good reason. IF you wanted something different RazoRock is a Canadian company specializing in traditional Italian soaps. Really great stuff, and pretty cheap. If you wanted a nice cream then Taylor of Old Bond Street or Dr Harris are a no brainier. The Italians tend to make better soaps, while the English make better creams. Hope that helps


----------



## Treemoss

Legitimate question. Hair conditioner instead of shaving cream a no go? I know it's the weird thing but honestly ive had to do it a couple times in a quick pinch, but both times i had no burning or irritation sensations.


----------



## Kat Stevens

It's an option, but if you use the Gucci 9 bladed motorized elliptical razors with built in vibrator, it will clog them up and dull them really fast.


----------



## KerryBlue

Treemoss said:
			
		

> Legitimate question. Hair conditioner instead of shaving cream a no go? I know it's the weird thing but honestly ive had to do it a couple times in a quick pinch, but both times i had no burning or irritation sensations.



Just go to shoppers and pick up a tube of Proraso.. waaaaaaaaay better for your face and is easy and fast to use in a hurry.


----------



## krimynal

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I think my French is good enough to understand what's up. If you have a legitimate medical issue for shaving, go through the tcat process so you eventually get a pcat that'll state "exempt shaving except for operational reasons". You may have some extra hoops to jump through for your ct, as you'll be on tcat, but once everything is done you won't have to carry a chit everywhere. I've had a few subordinates go through the process. It will take a while (year at least), but makes it official.



yeah I am currently on a course with some Med Techs , what they are telling me is that , I will apply for a medical chit , I am 100% sure to have it ( since my skin is a complete mess ) but since it will most likely take up to 1 year minimum ( since I have to do a 2 weeks period , then see the doctor back , then he gives me a 6 months period , see him back , then they send my file to Ottawa for a review , then Ottawa give me a permanent medical chit and change my medical file to make sure I don't have any trouble. ) 

The problem I have ( and the one they also confirmed I will have ) , is that once I have my CT Interview , they will check my medical condition and put me as unfit until I get my real medical chit approved by Ottawa ... and that means 1 year minimum until I can actually transfer.

And sadly I can't really wait that long , I know this one might take up to 1 or 2 years ...


----------



## mrcheevus

I a really liking the Dollar Shave Club's 4 blader.  And the price is right - they mail me 4 new blades a month for $6.50 CDN!

Good tips on shaving cream.


----------



## MarkOttawa

Besides the excellent Proraso, also available at Shoppers is Real Shaving cream, from an English company:
http://www.realshaving.com/
http://www.beautyatcreightons.co.uk/product-category/brands/the-real-shaving-company/

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa

Harry's razors--online only--are a bit different and good--cream I would say good but not great:
https://www.harrys.com/products







Mark
Ottawa


----------



## kev994

mrcheevus said:
			
		

> I a really liking the Dollar Shave Club's 4 blader.  And the price is right - they mail me 4 new blades a month for $6.50 CDN!
> 
> Good tips on shaving cream.


They're made by Dorco, online only.  I buy a year's worth for $40. They frequently have a $20 off $50 order and always have free shipping to Canada for orders over $40.


----------



## VanIslander

Went through the whole thread with CTRL+F but didn't see anything relating to moles...

I have 3 on my face/cheek that I absolutely cannot shave over with a regular razor.  One of them in particular is almost at right angles to my face and even the slightest nick means it bleeds for at least an hour.  Normally I shave the rest of my face with the regular razor, shave around the moles, and then buzz them real quick with an electric.

Would I have to get them removed for basic or something?

I'm not being a wimp, there's actually no way to shave these moles without bleeding everywhere.


----------



## jollyjacktar

I had a large mole on my face which could be a pain in the ass when shaving.   I had it removed after my threes.  I don't know about during basic as there's time constraints.


----------



## Blackadder1916

VanIslander said:
			
		

> Would I have to get them removed for basic or something?



That would be up to you.  Will you be forced to get them removed in the military?  Unlikely, unless "medically necessary" and even then the decision would be up to you - you'll have to live (or die) with the decision.  What's stopped you from already dealing with the irritation of your moles?  Laziness?  Because you don't shave regularly as a civvy?  Or because you don't want (or can't) pay for the procedure?  And that is a possibility - the removal of your moles may not be covered under your provincial health insurance.  Generally, removal of moles are only covered if medically necessary (i.e. potentially malignant or interferes with function), otherwise it would be considered cosmetic.  Because they interfere with speedy shaving "may" not be considered a valid reason (in the military the reasoning may be more valid).  Depending on the physician making that assessment, it could go either way, but since many family practitioners may be wary about performing minor surgery with potential of leaving facial scars, the patient will often be referred to a specialist.


And then there's the other option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H-cWXr-n5I


----------



## VanIslander

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> What's stopped you from already dealing with the irritation of your moles?



I shave daily/semi-daily but as I already mentioned, I just do them with the electric which you can't cut yourself with.  It's not a question of irritation, it's a question of bleeding, every single time, for an hour or so.  They're not huge but they protrude from the skin.  It's not possible to just do them with a regular razor.

And if I can't use an electric at BMQ then my choice is between being hairy or getting blood on my kit.



> And then there's the other option.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H-cWXr-n5I


Awesome.


----------



## ballz

VanIslander said:
			
		

> And if I can't use an electric at BMQ then my choice is between being hairy or getting blood on my kit.
> Awesome.



Where did you learn that you can't use an electric razor at BMQ?


----------



## VanIslander

A friend in the Navy told me.


----------



## Pusser

Having and using an electric razor on BMQ is not an issue.  The old argument from when I did the course (30 years ago) was that you can't plug an electric razor into a tree!  Even then, that wasn't really an issue because battery-powered electric razors were readily available (albeit expensive back in the dark ages).  You might still have to have a standard razor on display for kit inspections, but there should be no problem with you keeping and using an electric one for actually shaving.  The key point is that you have to be sufficiently clean-shaven (except for mustaches or if you've been given "permission to cease shaving" - unlikely on BMQ unless you're a Sikh) at the appropriate times.  How you actually do it is largely irrelevant.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver

If you are Navy, having an electric razor will not be an issue.

I used an electric my whole life and the only time I ran into a spot of trouble was much later in life: I was out with a division for a week-end of FF/DC training near Quebec city and we were quartered in one of the blocks in Valcartier. Apparently, the Army does not know yet that electricity was invented in the 1800's. My razor was getting discharged and I had to end up shaving in my room by unplugging one of the lamps  .


----------



## vonGarvin

I use one of these babies for shaving:






Smoothest shave ever.  And even cheaper than Dollar Shave club (though I like their blades as well)


----------



## Rifleman62

Thought this was you. :nod:


----------



## KerryBlue

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I use one of these babies for shaving:
> 
> Smoothest shave ever.  And even cheaper than Dollar Shave club (though I like their blades as well)



This is the only way people should be shaving. On my baby face using that or my straight I can keep my face looking like I just shaved for at least two if not three days.


----------



## c_canuk

2 or 3 days!?! 

Damn, I never thought I was a hairy dude, but on Monday after not shaving over the weekend I've got over 1/4" of thick stubble. (which was hell before I was turned on to safety razors)

I second Technoviking, a classic safety razor is the way to go, I have to take 4 passes(1 with grain, 1 side/hook, 2 against (1 full 1 just around my mouth) and it rarely irritates me, the Mach IIIs used to be ok, but they've changed something in them (or my face has changed...) and they suck now. Never was able to get a good shave out of a fusion.

Razorock is a great resource, they also own italianbarber.com. I've been keeping an eye out, apparently their shop designed slant safety is really good, and based on how it's always sold out before I get online to buy one when they get a new shipment in, It must be.

I've been working my way through a couple hundred blades that come in their sample packs... since December, I'm about 15% the way though them, cost me less than 100 bucks with cream and an alum block. 

So far my favorite blades are the Rapira Voskhod, and the Gillette Silver Blue blades. Anything by Rapira is decent so far too. No so impressed by the Lord brands (Dull) or the Feather's from Japan (smooth shave but so sharp you can't help cutting yourself, zero pressure, not even the weight of the razor and still get +3 cuts)

There are lots of good videos on italianbarber's website if you need pointers etc. video reviews too


----------



## KerryBlue

c_canuk said:
			
		

> 2 or 3 days!?!
> 
> Damn, I never thought I was a hairy dude, but on Monday after not shaving over the weekend I've got over 1/4" of thick stubble. (which was hell before I was turned on to safety razors)



I shaved yesterday morning, and I can just start feeling my stuble coming back in. I can usually get away with shaving Sundays, Tuesday's and Thursday and I'm good. 

I second your thoughts on Razorock, great company, great products and a great resource for someone learning to wet shave. 

Feathers are some of the best blades that I have ever shaved with, terrifying sharp and will get you with even a mild razor the cleanest smoothest of shaves. One just has to be very attentive while using them cause one bad move and you'll be bleeding. My other go to's are Personna Blues, or Astra. 

If you are looking for another Canadian wet shaving supplier there is always Mark of A Gentleman(markofagentleman.com)


----------



## PuckChaser

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> I shaved yesterday morning, and I can just start feeling my stuble coming back in.


 When does the couple layers of skin you took off start growing back? [emoji2]


----------



## c_canuk

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> Feathers are some of the best blades that I have ever shaved with, terrifying sharp and will get you with even a mild razor the cleanest smoothest of shaves. One just has to be very attentive while using them cause one bad move and you'll be bleeding. My other go to's are Personna Blues, or Astra.



I always get weepers with them around my upper lip, I think the extra sharp blade is more flexible allowing it to flex around my stubble and dig in a bit. Being ludicrously careful I still get weepers so they don't work for me. Astras are good too, I have a couple packs of those I've tried. I'm constantly switching between the 20 or so different blades and sorting them from most preferred to least.

I think the safety razor itself has a lot to do with how well each blade works as well, they aren't all the same dimensions exactly, so a blade for on one may protrude more or less than another. I know sometimes if I'm not careful, my blades don't precisely align with the comb.

When I finish figuring out my favorite, maybe I'll put the others up for grabs on here for anyone who wants to try a selection.


----------



## KerryBlue

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> When does the couple layers of skin you took off start growing back? [emoji2]



Usually scabs over after 2 or so days  ;D

Reminds me of this lol 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F7TMlrDXtw


----------



## Troubleman24

Wow Its really that hard to get a beard chit huh?
I called the medical one in St jean and I couldn't get an appointment on my time since I have University as well. I got a date for a day when I have midterms
I had a beard chit for my DP1 Course this summer, and I tried to shave for the upcoming training year(reserves), but my face still breaks out like crazy.
This really sucks I'm not trying to deal with my face breaking out like this.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

I have bit of a gripe, I've been in for a short time now (almost 4 years) and I had the unfortunate experience of being told I had to shave my moustache and seek permission to grow one... "...because the PAM states you can only grow one while on leave" 

I'm pretty upset considering some other troops I'm working with currently are being allowed to grow moustache without permission or leave; but conveniently fall under a different supervisor. 

I've read the CFP 265 and QR&O's, there's nothing that states I am required to be on leave let alone seek permission. 

How can I address my memo politely to reflect this?


----------



## George Wallace

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> I have bit of a gripe, I've been in for a short time now (almost 4 years) and I had the unfortunate experience of being told I had to shave my moustache and seek permission to grow one... "...because the PAM states you can only grow one while on leave"
> 
> I'm pretty upset considering some other troops I'm working with currently are being allowed to grow moustache without permission or leave; but conveniently fall under a different supervisor.
> 
> I've read the CFP 265 and QR&O's, there's nothing that states I am required to be on leave let alone seek permission.
> 
> How can I address my memo politely to reflect this?



Do you have a mustache on your NDI 20?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> I have bit of a gripe, I've been in for a short time now (almost 4 years) and I had the unfortunate experience of being told I had to shave my moustache and seek permission to grow one... "...because the PAM states you can only grow one while on leave"
> 
> I'm pretty upset considering some other troops I'm working with currently are being allowed to grow moustache without permission or leave; but conveniently fall under a different supervisor.
> 
> I've read the CFP 265 and QR&O's, there's nothing that states I am required to be on leave let alone seek permission.
> 
> How can I address my memo politely to reflect this?



I would love to see the ref for this!  I believe this is the deal for beards and females wanting to transition to longer hair...but I've never heard of this before...and I've seen more guys go a tour stache etc and never requested jack shit to do it.

I'd ask the supervisor for the ref and see what he/she has for ya...lol.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Do you have a mustache on your NDI 20?



It doesn't matter. The regulation for ID change only applies to Beards, not Moustaches.


----------



## ModlrMike

I stopped shaving my upper lip when I left Cornwallis in 1979. At no time in the intervening years has anyone asked me for proof of authority to have a mustache.

Somebody doesn't know what they're talking about.


----------



## MJP

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> I have bit of a gripe, I've been in for a short time now (almost 4 years) and I had the unfortunate experience of being told I had to shave my moustache and seek permission to grow one... "...because the PAM states you can only grow one while on leave"
> 
> I'm pretty upset considering some other troops I'm working with currently are being allowed to grow moustache without permission or leave; but conveniently fall under a different supervisor.
> 
> I've read the CFP 265 and QR&O's, there's nothing that states I am required to be on leave let alone seek permission.
> 
> How can I address my memo politely to reflect this?



These are the shit reasons we lose people.


----------



## medicineman

Your supervisor is an idiot...or an insecure idiot...or an insecure idiot that likes abusing "power" and likely is incapable of growing a moustache.

There is no regulation that I've ever seen saying you require permission to grow a moustache.

Ask your supervisor for the name of his dope dealer so you can be on the same wavelength as him/her/it.

MM


----------



## RedcapCrusader

medicineman said:
			
		

> Your supervisor is an idiot...or an insecure idiot...or an insecure idiot that likes abusing "power" and likely is incapable of growing a moustache.
> 
> There is no regulation that I've ever seen saying you require permission to grow a moustache.
> 
> Ask your supervisor for the name of his dope dealer so you can be on the same wavelength as him/her/it.
> 
> MM





			
				MJP said:
			
		

> These are the shit reasons we lose people.



Someone mentioned to me that it's the interpretation of the regulations, in that members must be clean shaven, but can have a moustache; and that growing on leave due to the fact that the growth period can look really bad. 

Yet, this is the first time in my career so far anyone has made issue of it.


----------



## George Wallace

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> I stopped shaving my upper lip when I left Cornwallis in 1979. At no time in the intervening years has anyone asked me for proof of authority to have a mustache.
> 
> Somebody doesn't know what they're talking about.



Only hassle I ever got when I attempted to grow one, was the ribbing of "what is that dirt on your upper lip?"  Only regulations I have seen on mustaches have been on trimming; not growing.


----------



## Journeyman

"Movember" must be hell on your boss.   ;D


----------



## ballz

MJP said:
			
		

> These are the crap reasons we lose people.



QFTT.

It's always amazing to see that at this big pot luck dinner that is the army, the only thing some people can bring to the table is kind of stupidity.


----------



## medicineman

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Someone mentioned to me that it's the interpretation of the regulations, in that members must be clean shaven, but can have a moustache; and that growing on leave due to the fact that the growth period can look really bad.



Nothing to interpret - they're allowed without special growing requests.  The only thing you are likely going to have to put up with is like GW said...myself and my "evil win" in my unit were presidents of the cheesy moustache club there for a quite awhile until they were cultivated properly.

MM


----------



## dapaterson

There's also the risk that, a decade from now, someone will find a picture of you with the cheesy 'stache and blow it up to a huge size and post it around unit lines.


----------



## medicineman

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There's also the risk that, a decade from now, someone will find a picture of you with the cheesy 'stache and blow it up to a huge size and post it around unit lines.



That is correct...

MM


----------



## Bzzliteyr

I saw your post on reddit, it's definitely something special. 

I'd look into talking to another member of your chain of command and ask them to clarify the policy with your supervisor. "SGt Bloggins has asked me to shave my moustache and I can't find anything in the regs about it. Can you ask them why they feel it is an issue?"

Or maybe, ask them yourself?


----------



## krimynal

Quick question 

I use to have a medical for my beard ( since I honestly can't shave , my face is litterally bloody red and I have big acne problem ) 

Since I left and now I am going back in , I know that my old medical paper is not good anymore and that I will need to ask for a new one. 

But as a "recruit" in the RCAF going on a new course as a new comer.  Can I try to get one ? Or do I need to do my entire course trying to shave ?


----------



## medicineman

You'd need to see an MO and get a new chit when you get to your Base.

MM


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I saw your post on reddit, it's definitely something special.
> 
> I'd look into talking to another member of your chain of command and ask them to clarify the policy with your supervisor. "SGt Bloggins has asked me to shave my moustache and I can't find anything in the regs about it. Can you ask them why they feel it is an issue?"
> 
> Or maybe, ask them yourself?



I'm being reassigned to a new detachment, so I'll just wait the 7-ish days. My new supervisor is someone I've worked for before, it'll be a lot less authoritative.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Fine for you, but doesn't solve the issues the other sub-ordinates of this particular person and their own personal set of dress regs and DAODs they seem to have devised.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Fine for you, but doesn't solve the issues the other sub-ordinates of this particular person and their own personal set of dress regs and DAODs they seem to have devised.



Fair enough, I just meant it more as "My new supervisor will be a lot more help with addressing this issue."


----------



## ballz

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Fine for you, but doesn't solve the issues the other sub-ordinates of this particular person and their own personal set of dress regs and DAODs they seem to have devised.



It's not the subordinates job to sort out crappy supervisors. That guy has had supervisors their entire career that clearly failed to do their jobs, and now this guy is in a supervisory position. We can't turn around and blame the subordinate for not sticking his own neck out once we have failed and put a guy like this in a supervisory position.


----------



## MarkOttawa

Technoviking--further to your post a couple of years ago, 
https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/4171/post-1382174.html#msg1382174

just got Merkur Model 180 Long Handled Safety Razor via Amazon with Gillette blades:



> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000NL0T1G/ref=pe_3034960_233709270_TE_item



Seems to work as well as my other razors (was using six from Trac 2 to a Harry's, bit of a hobby); Proraso soap and cream (ShoppersDrug) very good though have just got three others via Amazon for fun, English soap and cream, French soap.

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## vonGarvin

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Technoviking--further to your post a couple of years ago,
> https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/4171/post-1382174.html#msg1382174
> 
> just got Merkur Model 180 Long Handled Safety Razor via Amazon with Gillette blades:
> 
> Seems to work as well as my other razors (was using six from Trac 2 to a Harry's, bit of a hobby); Proraso soap and cream (ShoppersDrug) very good though have just got three others via Amazon for fun, English soap and cream, French soap.
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa


I have a short handled Merkur.  

The blades are by Astra.  I think they are made in Russia.  You can get a 100 count for under 10 bucks (US).  
My brush is badger hair and was made by a local artisan here in Northern Virginia
My soap, oil and post shave balm is from the Art of Shaving.

My process is complex, but I do this daily:
Hot shower, finish with a nice scrub of my face with water as hot as I can stand.
In the sink, I use hot water (again, as hot as possible) on my face.
I think coat my skin in oil
I lather up the brush.  Get that soap really thick.
Lather the face
Shave WITH the grain, followed by against.  If it's a special occasion, I'll lather my face up before going against the grain.
COLD water on my face
Post shave balm.


After all this time using a Merkur, I still marvel at how smooth this shave is.  And no nicks, no burns, no ingrown hairs.


----------



## ballz

Recently purchased this shave bowl for lathering up the brush, super beautiful piece and because of the swirl and indentations inside it helps build up a lather super quickly.

http://www.jaysclay.com/project/blue-shaving-bowl/

They actually aren't able to sell them in Canada yet and are currently trying to get something set up with Amazon but I guess there's a bunch of hoops they have to jump through first. But most of us have a friend or two in the US at this point and can work around it.


----------



## kev994

I bought a scuttle in Winnipeg, I love it.  http://mudandstonestudio.com/shave-scuttles/


----------



## Navy_Pete

Switched to DE shaving a few years ago and never looked back.  Aside from shaving burn becoming a thing of the past, also save a ton of money vs cartridge shaving on your monthlies. Figure I save about $15/month on the blades (about $0.48 vs about $16 for the cartridges) and the soaps last longer than the can, so the cost there varies between cheaper and about the same. Also easier to travel with, as I don't have to worry about the can exploding, and the routine only takes me about two minutes longer, but pretty relaxing way to start the morning.

Using a rockwell 6s; instead of adjusting in the handle there are three bases that reverse, so you can select from 6 different settings;






Ended up with a wide selection of soaps, so switch between some of the canadian ones (Soapy Bathman, Henri & Victoria) and a few of the european ones like Proraso and Porto.  Switch it around based on what I feel like whichever morning, but they do last a really long time.  Generally if I use it daily a standard tub goes for about three months to give you an idea.

If you want more info there is even a big facebook group called 'Canadian Wet Shavers'. Pretty good community of guys, lots of info on getting started. They are enablers though into buying a bunch of extra brushes, soaps, blades etc, which is where it gets expensive.


----------



## sidemount

Do you guys have any experience with straight razors, or are safety razors the way to go.
My neck has always been irritated after using a cartridge more than a couple times plus the occasional ingrown hair.

Ive been spoiled with civy u for a few years but its soon back to the real world and would love an option other than cartridges.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## ballz

I have some good lessons learned. I always wanted to use one and I made a few mistakes a long the way. I have thick, coarse facial hair, and pretty sensitive skin, so it's a bad combo, so I've been a diva about shaving ever since joining. I thought a straight razor might be the answer, so I tried to go that route.

I bought a cheap one, and a cheap strop, and it never really could do the job. So I thought it was because I cheaped out. So I bought a more expensive one (Boker... around $150), and it still couldn't do the job right out of the box. In speaking with a guy who sharpens them for a living, he said despite the extra expense, the Boker's factory edge will not be enough.

At this point, if I send it away to get it honed by a professional, I'm buying a good strop for it (so another $150). So I figured, before doing that, I would try double-edge safety razors and since it was only an extra $20 bucks, a shavette / single edge razor (so basically a straight razor, but it takes disposable blades instead). I figured, I know that the blades in the shavette are sharp enough because they aren't even designed to be sharpened, so better to test it like that since it's cheap.

I liked the shavette better than the double-edge safety razor. I always have trouble not tearing my face off with a double-edge safety razor because I can't feel the blade against my skin so it's really hard to tell how steep of an angle it is at. I'm also used to using Mach 4s which obviously are very forgiving whereas a double-edge safety razor is not, and it's hard to break old habits. I am finally ready to take the plunge and send away my actual straight razor to be sharpened / buy a good strop.

All this to say, if you're going to experiment with a straight razor, I recommend experimenting with a shavette / single-edge and disposable blades first. It's a pretty cheap way to get the hang of it and see if you like it before dropping a lot of cash on good stuff.


----------



## TCM621

Go with a safety razor. Straight razor shave have too high a learning curve and quote frankly do no better than a good safety razor. A decent Merkel razor will run 35 to 40 dollars and you can get 100 Astra Platinum blades (a decent good quality blade) for about 20 dollars on Amazon. Now you need a shave brush. You can buy the rest at Shoppers Drug mart. The omega boar bristle brush is ok and you can get Proraso Shave soap or real shaving company cream for a couple of bucks. A dish to lather in is an optional but good idea. I used an old small ceramic dish for a while. You will probably spend 100 dollars on setup and not spend a dime for at least a year after probably 2.

Use the Shave brush to get a nice lather on your face and shave one pass with the grain. Depending on your facial hair and how close a shave you need, you may be able to stop there. If not another pass (reapply cream each time) from ear to chin and one from chin to ear will get you a Damn Fine Shave (DFS). A 4th pass against the grain will get most guys to Baby Butt Smooth. Because I have sensitive skin on my neck, I do one pass on my neck and 3 on my face. It prevents most irritation yet gives me a smooth face.

It does take longer than dragging a four blade razor across your face as fast as you can but most people end up enjoying the ritual. A nice sandlewood cream, a smooth face and a nice alcohol based after shave is quite refreshing. It turns a chore into something enjoyable.


----------



## sidemount

Beauty, sounds good. Ill give the safety razor a go!

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Navy_Pete

I have the same coarse hair/sensitive skin combo.  I went from always having razor burn all on my throat to it being a pretty rare occasion to have even one or two bumps once I switched to the safety razor.

I know lots of people rave about the boar hair brushes, but I still use an old wilkinson one I picked up at shoppers years ago. Not sure if it's synthetic or horse hair, but does a good job on a variety of different soaps. They are about $20 new compared to $50 or (much) more so not a bad alternative when you get started.

You can check around your town; the local mall has one of the 'personal Edge' stores that is mostly knives, but has a small selection of safety razors. Also, there are lots of Canadian websites as well, and most have starter packages with some blade trial packages. That's a good way to find one you like, as they typically have a selection of 6 different blades with a few of each. The different types are all slightly different so can take some trials and error before you find one that works well for your face. Off the top of my head Fendrihan.ca is one of them, but if you google 'canadian wet shaving online shop' a few should come up so you can compare prices and styles.

Once you have your kit set up, shoppers reliably carries Proraso white and green soaps, which are both pretty solid, and then you can get sucked into the abyss of all the small local 'artisan' soaps and brushes. I now have a stack of about a dozen different soaps that I rotate around based on what I feel like using in the morning, but they don't spoil or anything, so figure I'm good for a few years.

Word of caution though; take your time the first few shaves, or when you try a new blade.  I wasn't paying enough attention one morning and took a small chunk out of my chin. The blades are scalpel sharp and some are more flexible than others, so when I tried to go too fast and it caught, first indication was a small tug followed by a bunch of blood. Only happened once, but they are less forgiving than your standard catridge razor.

Once you get used to it though, really weird to grab a can of shave cream and try that, as they are weirdly chemically scented with a strange residue left behind. Plus I miss the ritual of working up a lather and brushing it on. Only takes a minute or so but find the whole process kind of zen.


----------



## MarkOttawa

US site worth a look--West Coast Shaving:
https://www.westcoastshaving.com/

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## ballz

To each their own, I am probably the odd one out but I found the single-edge a lot easier to get used to than the double-edge (which I still don't have the hang of).

Definitely the one part that I never had any trouble getting used to was using a brush / soap instead of shaving cream from a can. No comparison. I started off with the inexpensive Omega brush and Proraso soap from Shoppers Drug Mart. They worked, definitely better than a can... but since moving on to a badger brush and Taylor of Old Bond Street cream, I'll never go back.

For supplies, I always check with markofagentleman.com first, a good ol Canadian company with free shipping on orders over $65.


----------



## TCM621

ballz said:
			
		

> To each their own, I am probably the odd one out but I found the single-edge a lot easier to get used to than the double-edge (which I still don't have the hang of).
> 
> Definitely the one part that I never had any trouble getting used to was using a brush / soap instead of shaving cream from a can. No comparison. I started off with the inexpensive Omega brush and Proraso soap from Shoppers Drug Mart. They worked, definitely better than a can... but since moving on to a badger brush and Taylor of Old Bond Street cream, I'll never go back.
> 
> For supplies, I always check with markofagentleman.com first, a good ol Canadian company with free shipping on orders over $65.


There are lots of options now. House of knives has a shaving section now. Almost everything is cheap online. Taylor of old bond street is great stuff, but their are some really good cheaper options as well. A lot of people swear by a palmolive Shave stick which is - 4 bucks on amazon and I have been using the same 15 dollar bottle of clubman aftershave for more than 2 years.


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## Kat Stevens

Fendrihan is an awesome site with everything you'd ever need, at decent prices.


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## sidemount

Its almost like this could turn into a hobby!

Some great sites and Ive looked at a few, just need to decide now I guess. Either way I look forward to not having my neck red every day.

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## IceBlue

I have been suffering with ingrown hairs for my entire career (20+ years) I just went with the suck it up method.


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## c_canuk

For anyone looking for a good site, these guys operate out of Canada, and I've had great service with them

https://www.italianbarber.com/


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## MarkOttawa

ballz:



> Taylor of Old Bond Street cream



Indeed.

Mark
Ottawa


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## Navy_Pete

Big Spoon said:
			
		

> I have been suffering with ingrown hairs for my entire career (20+ years) I just went with the suck it up method.



I switched when I looked at how much room a six month supply of cartridge razors and cans of shave cream took up. The brush is about half the volume; the razor, a few packs of blades and a tube or two of shave soap is the rest, and takes up about as much room as a pair of socks, or my shoe polish kit.  I figure I save at least $10/month on cartridge razors, so if you stick with the basics, it pays for itself in less than a year.

The lack of ingrown hairs and razor burn was a happy surprise really.

It really can turn into a hobby though; I've found a few times I've gone to order one thing online, realized the shipping is the same as another soap, and added more stuff on to qualify for free shipping. I'm slowly working through a stockpile but probably don't need anything else for a few years at this point. If you get in on one of the facebook groups you'll see a bunch of people that keep buying new stuff and regularly sell off extras, or give some stuff away to make room.

Mens Essentials is another good one too; I think they have a few stores in the Toronto area as well. The various soap makers have their own website as well that you can directly order from, and most have branched out from just shaving soap to soap bars, after shave etc once they are established.  There are some really established brands like the Prorasos of the world that are really solid and have been in business for ever for a reason, so pretty safe bet there too, and you can find that at shoppers, winners etc.


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## MarkOttawa

Navy_Pete:



> It really can turn into a hobby though



No blinking kidding  ;D.

Mark
Ottawa


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## ballz

sidemount said:
			
		

> Its almost like this could turn into a hobby!



It is for some people. There are people with YouTube channels of just them trying out shaving products in their "Shave Den." Some collections of soaps, creams, razors, etc gets pretty out of control.

Personally, I still shave as few times as humanly possible... but when I do, I use good stuff.


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## ballz

Worth noting since this thread has been active lately, but everything at markofagentleman.com is 20% off right now because they're moving their physical location. Time to load up...


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## sidemount

So its been a bit and Civy U is all finished so its time to head back to the army world. New dress regs not being out means the beard had to go. 

Upon the advice here I picked up a Merkur short handle. I havent got all the soaps and brush yet but tried it out with just a regular shave cream. Its amazing the difference my face feels even after the first shave. No razor burn at all, no redness, and its much smoother.
I'm quite impressed thus far.


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## jdog

I've been using a DE (Edwin Jagger DE89, with Feather/Derby blades, and TOBS cream) for a couple years now. Sadly it can turn into an expensive hobby for sure. But it leaves a great shave!

It's a heck of a lot cheaper as far as blades and cream goes over time. But a little more cumbersome. 

Anyone on BMQ actually use a DE setup or did they just say screw it and grab a Mach3 and a can? Something tells me a DE/setup is far too time consuming and annoying to work with when you're on BMQ.


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## observor 69

How many shaves from a Mach 3 razor?
Yes that's the question.  I replace mine after a week but I hear others get more.
Where do you draw the line and chuck the blade in the garbage?


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## observor 69

In Costco the other day and found Kirkland brand triple blade razor.
Cheaper than Mach 3 and an equal or better shave.


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## Lumber

Baden Guy said:
			
		

> How many shaves from a Mach 3 razor?
> Yes that's the question.  I replace mine after a week but I hear others get more.
> Where do you draw the line and chuck the blade in the garbage?



I've used the Mach 3 Turbo for nigh on 15 years and it's always lasted longer than a week. 

Generally, I find if I always shave after a shower, I can use a blade for a lot longer than if I'm trying to use it on a "cold" face.


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