# This may be a silly question about RMC degree's but.....



## rokkzstar (21 Jan 2011)

Does a Bachelor's degree through the Division of continuing studies have any less merit than a degree obtained through full time studies?

like for example, does the DCS degree say that it is a degree from the Royal Military of College of Canada with a disclaimer on it saying "through the division of continuing studies"


and does it hold any less weight when progressing through the ranks??

is it still "worthy" of Ring Knocker status??


It's not really a big deal, its just more for curiosity sake

I'm currently a full time CF member, and working on my bachelor's through DCS


----------



## dapaterson (22 Jan 2011)

rokkzstar said:
			
		

> Does a Bachelor's degree through the Division of continuing studies have any less merit than a degree obtained through full time studies?
> 
> like for example, does the DCS degree say that it is a degree from the Royal Military of College of Canada with a disclaimer on it saying "through the division of continuing studies"
> 
> ...





> I don't know that an RMC (or any other) will make it easier to get through JTF-2 assaulter training to become a door-knocker.  Ring knocker, on the other hand...



More seriously, working on a degree while working full-time shows a commendable level of effort and dedication on your part.  When talking to folks outside the military, you can just say you did your undergrad at RMC.  To those inside the CF, you can give the longer version.


----------



## rokkzstar (22 Jan 2011)

YES, Ring Knocker...Oy!!


Door Knocker....now THAT deserves high merit


----------



## Shamrock (24 Jan 2011)

Don't RMC degrees require successful completion of the four pillars? Is it possible to accomplish them through DCS?


----------



## IBM (24 Jan 2011)

IMO I don't think it should matter whether you completed the degree through DCS or not. As long as the program itself has the same academic standards as full studies, and is also full accredited etc. then your degree should be just as good. Most employers could care less whether you did the degree in F/T or not. A degree from such-and-such uni is still a degree.

As someone who does has a civvie uni degree, if some RMC grad thinks I'm "not as worthy" cause I'm not rocking the RMC undgrad class ring, I would be glad to tell such a person where he or she can shove that class ring. In fact, I would be glad to point out that I was able to attend classes wearing whatever the hell I want (at least within the norm expectations of society in general ;D) without worrying about dress & deportment all all that shit.


----------



## captloadie (24 Jan 2011)

The short answer is that no, you will not receive an RMC degree if you only complete the academic portion of the RMC experience. You will receive a Candian Forces College Degree. Will most people differentiate the difference? Probably not, if the academic achievement is all they are looking for.



			
				IBM said:
			
		

> In fact, I would be glad to point out that I was able to attend classes wearing whatever the hell I want (at least within the norm expectations of society in general ;D) without worrying about dress & deportment all all that crap.



Ahhhh, I bet all the current and former RSMs on this forum love to hear their future leaders talk like this. At least most of us ring knockers learn a little decorum going through the system.


----------



## chrisf (24 Jan 2011)

Learn decorum *and* wear silly hats.

To the original poster, who cares? A degree is a degree, if it's in the field appropriate for the job you want to do, then you're good to go.  

If at any point an RMC graduate looks down on you for not having a degree from RMC, you can rest assured, he's a pompous idiot.


----------



## DexOlesa (24 Jan 2011)

They are the most god awful hats out there. I agree with Sig Op, as long as the degree helps you in your career it doesn't matter where you get it. There are upsides to RMC to be sure, but there are also a lot of aspects of the college that aren't so great as well (and I'm not just talking about the poor taste in head dress). It is a unique experience to be sure. I suggest keep researching your options and keep asking questions. Then when  you have all the info and it is time to apply to the college of your choice, you can rest easy knowing you've made the right one. Good luck


----------



## Strike (24 Jan 2011)

I would recommend though that, should you complete your degree through CMC DL, don't go around telling people you graduated from RMC.  An RMC grad may call you on it.  However, nothing wrong with saying that you graduated from the RMC DL program.  They are two very distinct programs even if the education is the same.


----------



## chrisf (24 Jan 2011)

While at parties, I claim to be a be an archaeology professor, a oil company geologist, and/or a bear fighter. I keep several arrow heads, core samples, and a bear skull on me at all times for these purposes.

I would suggest, if one wants to pass themselves off as an RMC grad, find themselves one of those silly hats.


----------



## Journeyman (24 Jan 2011)

captloadie said:
			
		

> The short answer is that no, you will not receive an RMC degree if you only complete the academic portion of the RMC experience. You will receive a Candian Forces College Degree.


Could you provide a source for this?

- I just read my RMC degree, and it says no such thing. 
- Having instructed at both RMC and CFC, I've never heard of a CFC degree. In fact, even the Master of Defence Studies, which CFC students can attain while working in the Joint Command and Staff Programme, is awarded by RMC, not CFC. 
- Further, I've inquired at both CFC and CDA and no one knows what you're talking about.



			
				Strike said:
			
		

> I would recommend though that, should you complete your degree through CMC DL, don't go around telling people you graduated from RMC.  An RMC grad may call you on it.  However, nothing wrong with saying that you graduated from the RMC DL program.  They are two very distinct programs even if the education is the same.


Sorry, I have to disagree. 

Having a degree from RMC but having to skulk around for fear of some RMC grad "calling him on it"?!  It's like not wearing your pilot wings because some fighter pilot might call you on it -- helicopters and fighters are "different programs" and the fighter pilot may believe himself superior.


----------



## Strike (24 Jan 2011)

Sorry.  I should have been more specific.  Don't refer to yourself as a ring-knocker as others may then assume that you experienced the whole RMC experience/BS.


----------



## OldSolduer (24 Jan 2011)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> While at parties, I claim to be a be an archaeology professor, a oil company geologist, and/or a bear fighter. I keep several arrow heads, core samples, and a bear skull on me at all times for these purposes.
> 
> I would suggest, if one wants to pass themselves off as an RMC grad, find themselves one of those silly hats.



I try the FBI thing as a profiler. I watch Criminal Minds and I've read several books on the subject.


----------



## dapaterson (24 Jan 2011)

At parties, I claim to be a rodeo clown.  Leads to interesting conversations.  If I get called on it, I admit that really I'm only a student at Clown college.  Then, since I'm in Ottawa, people ask "U of Zero or Hogsback High?"


----------



## chrisf (24 Jan 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> Sorry.  I should have been more specific.  Don't refer to yourself as a ring-knocker as others may then assume that you experienced the whole RMC experience/BS.



I've always used the term "ring-knocker" in much the same way as the term "meat-head", is it somthing other than derogatory? (I mean that as a legitimate question)


----------



## yoman (24 Jan 2011)

The way that its been explained to us is that if you went to RMC and passed all 4 pillars you get to add "RMC" after your name. Yay...


----------



## DexOlesa (24 Jan 2011)

Well that last part is pure BS, the only part that changes whether you pass all 4 components or not (say you didn't become fully bilingual) is that instead of graduating in you Scarlet college uniform you graduate in your 1A's.


----------



## Strike (24 Jan 2011)

DexOlesa said:
			
		

> Well that last part is pure BS, the only part that changes whether you pass all 4 components or not (say you didn't become fully bilingual) is that instead of graduating in you Scarlet college uniform you graduate in your 1A's.



What last part are you talking about?  As far as I'm concerned a UTPNCM grad from RMC is also a ring-knocker who has passed all 4 pillars and they graduate in 1As.


----------



## Wookilar (24 Jan 2011)

Don't even get me started on the DEU 1A thing.... all right, since you asked...

Long story short:
ROTP/RETP student fails one of the 4 pillars but passes university: wears 1A's on grad parade.

UTPNCM student passes every damn thing thrown at them (and stays married in the process): wears 1A's on parade.

Did I take offence to someone "failing" their program looking similar to me?.....As a matter of fact, I did.

As far as the .rmc after you name, I received it (as did all Otters in my year)....and I certianly did not finish all 4 pillars as the ROTP/RETP students did.

As far as the degree goes, mine is also from DCS (BMASc). I will have to look at it to confirm exactly what is on it.

Wook


----------



## rokkzstar (24 Jan 2011)

hmmm still seems like some conflicting replies.

let me ask this...has anyone here graduated from the DCS?
I don't mean through any other program.

Just people working on their degrees while working(like I am).


again, it's just more for personal information. its not going to change how I feel about it, or change schools or anything.
and I'm not going to use it as some kind of "badge of honor" 

But what made me question it is that I have heard about the Canadian Forces College vis RMC argument and I just wanted to get a confirmation on "where" the degree actually is issued from.

Techinically, the Canadian Forces College isn't a "recognized" university in Canada....


----------



## IBM (24 Jan 2011)

captloadie said:
			
		

> Ahhhh, I bet all the current and former RSMs on this forum love to hear their future leaders talk like this. At least most of us ring knockers learn a little decorum going through the system.



In that case, said RSMs would all probably have aneurysms of some kind if I showed up to work in my "Chinese hobo" look.


----------



## wannabe SF member (24 Jan 2011)

Wookilar said:
			
		

> Don't even get me started on the DEU 1A thing.... all right, since you asked...
> 
> Long story short:
> ROTP/RETP student fails one of the 4 pillars but passes university: wears 1A's on grad parade.
> ...



I know at least a few people that would gladly graduate in 1A's instead of scarlets. (And it ain't just cuz they're more comfortable.)


----------



## Lumber (24 Jan 2011)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I've always used the term "ring-knocker" in much the same way as the term "meat-head", is it somthing other than derogatory? (I mean that as a legitimate question)



No, it isn't; it is derogatory in that it's used to label us as people who feel we are inherently better than other, which we do not. That said, we're pretty easy going and aren't too insulted byt he term, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. An MP might jokingly call himself a "meat-head", an armored soldier a "zipper- head", an artillery soldier a "drop-short", etc.. but none of these people would actually appreciate you referring to them in such a manner. Same goes for ring-knockers. Someone might ask me, "did you go to RMC or civi-U?" and I might reply, "I'm a ring-knocker,  :crybaby:" but I wouldn't appreciate you referring to me as "that ring-knocker over there" to all your buddies. 

I've _*never *_ actually heard anyone I work with from RMC say anything about being better than any other officers because they/we went to clown college RMC.



			
				IBM said:
			
		

> In fact, I would be glad to point out that I was able to attend classes wearing whatever the hell I want (at least within the norm expectations of society in general ;D) without worrying about dress & deportment all all that crap.



Dress & Deportment and all that *crap*? I am proud to wear a uniform and to have composed myself in a professional manner by, oh I don't know, actually attending class. If you think dress & deportment are all crap, you need to think very strongly about your chosen profession.


----------



## chrisf (24 Jan 2011)

Lumber said:
			
		

> No, it isn't; it is derogatory in that it's used to label us as people who feel we are inherently better than other, which we do not. That said, we're pretty easy going and aren't too insulted byt he term, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. An MP might jokingly call himself a "meat-head", an armored soldier a "zipper- head", an artillery soldier a "drop-short", etc.. but none of these people would actually appreciate you referring to them in such a manner. Same goes for ring-knockers. Someone might ask me, "did you go to RMC or civi-U?" and I might reply, "I'm a ring-knocker,  :crybaby:" but I wouldn't appreciate you referring to me as "that ring-knocker over there" to all your buddies.



The only times I've ever heard it/used it, it was usually preceeded by some incarnation of the f-word, in reference to a officer cadet or 2LT who "knows everything" because "they went to RMC" (It doesn't come up often, but again, this is the only time I've ever heard it, which is why I assumed it was derogatory)



> I've _*never *_ actually heard anyone I work with from RMC say anything about being better than any other officers because they/we went to clown college RMC.



I've never heard it myself, but this might be helpful if it ever comes up.

"Have you done anything useful since then?"


----------



## IBM (25 Jan 2011)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Dress & Deportment and all that *crap*? I am proud to wear a uniform and to have composed myself in a professional manner by, oh I don't know, actually attending class. If you think dress & deportment are all crap, you need to think very strongly about your chosen profession.



Wow, either my attempt at sarcastic humor has failed miserably, or some people just did not get my attempt at it. Chill out, dude. Maybe the QM can issue you some sense of humor.


----------



## George Wallace (25 Jan 2011)

IBM said:
			
		

> Wow, either my attempt at sarcastic humor has failed miserably, or some people just did not get my attempt at it. Chill out, dude. Maybe the QM can issue you some sense of humor.



Don't we issue our own humour anymore?


----------



## Shamrock (25 Jan 2011)

In the hallowed halls of the selectively literate, humor is interpretive.


----------



## George Wallace (25 Jan 2011)

ʞɔoɹɯɐɥs said:
			
		

> In the hallowed halls of the selectively literate, humor is interpretive.



Like 'dance'?


----------



## Herky (8 Mar 2011)

rokkzstar said:
			
		

> Does a Bachelor's degree through the Division of continuing studies have any less merit than a degree obtained through full time studies?
> 
> like for example, does the DCS degree say that it is a degree from the Royal Military of College of Canada with a disclaimer on it saying "through the division of continuing studies"
> 
> ...



As a CF NCM (Recently retired Air Tech CWO) who holds a BMASC and did it entirely through DL, I can tell you that it is worth your time and effort.  Don't worry about all the retoric about fulltime vs parttime, UTP vs Cadet....it's all just that retoric.  I gained a valuable sense of self accomplishment and confidence by attaining a life goal while still working and deploying fulltime.  I graduated alongside the UTs and Cadets at the college and have the same degree, RMC tie and ring.  At the end of the day, my studies helped me in my job and were a definate PER booster.  I might also add that outside the CF, an RMC degree is highly regarded and noone asks "did you do it F/T or DL?".  It helped me secure a fulltime permanent position with a major defense contractor.  Best of Luck...continue your studies....it'll pay off.


----------



## Danjanou (8 Mar 2011)

See this is why I avoid the whole issue and just tell people at parties that I'm a Dolphin trainer and specialize in teaching them interpretive dance……. I even have business cards made up.  8)


----------



## Journeyman (8 Mar 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> .... just tell people at parties that I'm a Dolphin trainer and specialize in teaching them interpretive dance....


Given what you _really_ do for a living, I can't blame you.   ;D


----------



## Danjanou (8 Mar 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Given what you _really_ do for a living, I can't blame you.   ;D



True dat, mind I did consider either Walmart Greeter or Univeristy Grad Student  they're more or less the same I hear. >


----------



## Strike (8 Mar 2011)

Herky said:
			
		

> I might also add that outside the CF, an RMC degree is highly regarded and noone asks "did you do it F/T or DL?".



No, but if they are an ex-cadet (and I'm referring to the "older" ones, of which I don't yet count myself...shut up JM) they may ask you what your college number is and look at you funny when it is an alpha-numeric one )that does not even match the UTPNMC numbers) instead of all numeric like what an RMC cadet gets.

Just sayin'.


----------



## GAP (8 Mar 2011)

> Quote from: Journeyman on Today at 11:43:14
> 
> Given what you really do for a living, I can't blame you.   ;D





			
				Danjanou said:
			
		

> True dat, mind I did consider either Walmart Greeter or Prof at Queens, they're more or less the same I hear. >



Actually, I think you picked the harder of the choices....


----------

