# 3 Jun 2017:  Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge



## tomahawk6 (3 Jun 2017)

Armed police are on the scene.This is breaking news...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40146916

Police are responding to reports that a van has hit a number of pedestrians on London Bridge in central London.
Witnesses have said that armed officers are understood to be at the scene after a white transit van mounted the pavement before driving into people.
The Met Police say they are dealing with an incident on the bridge and "multiple resources" are in attendance.
Transport for London said the bridge has been closed in both directions due to a "major police incident".

_- mod edit to add date to thread title -_


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## muskrat89 (3 Jun 2017)

Three different scenes now - http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_LONDON_BRIDGE_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-06-03-18-27-54


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## The Bread Guy (3 Jun 2017)

Keep in mind the usual attached caveats ...

More from
-- Google News
-- BBC
-- EU news aggregator


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## The Bread Guy (3 Jun 2017)

And the Metro Police declares the London Bridge & Borough Market incidents terrorist incidents - _so far_, the reported stabbing is being reported as not connected.


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## tomahawk6 (3 Jun 2017)

There are reports of citizens throwing chairs at the attackers after the unarmed police retreated. Although it didnt take long for the armed police to arrive on scene. In a situation like that you have to be ready to defend yourself until the cavalry arrives.


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## brihard (3 Jun 2017)

Police now confirm:
- 'The' suspects (3) shot and killed by police within eight minutes of the attack beginning.
- 'Further inquiries' being made on whether there are additional suspects.
- Suspects had mock IED vests.

So it reads as if the threat is in fact stopped.


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## JWJ (4 Jun 2017)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> There are reports of citizens throwing chairs at the attackers after the unarmed police retreated. Although it didnt take long for the armed police to arrive on scene. In a situation like that you have to be ready to defend yourself until the cavalry arrives.



Not all the unarmed police retreated, many were pictured putting themselves between the knifemen who had the visible mock-Suicide vests on and civilians, despite only being armed with their batons and close range pepper spray. 

Not to mention the guy who chased the attackers, throwing pint glasses at them and managed to save a few drunk girls by distracting them as they attacked the girls.


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## brihard (4 Jun 2017)

Britain is going to need to take a hard look at whether it still makes sense for police to not all be armed. While the odds of any one individual officer ever needing to fire their weapon will be slim, it would greatly increase the likelihood of a rapid intervention with sufficient force to stop an active threat in these instances. While Britain's policing model has largely sufficed for most crime (although we have seemed armed officers increasing in number and availability), police are increasingly going to be looked to to be the security against attacks such as these. Police should never be in the business of getting into fair fights, and the only way to have an advantage over a knife is with a gun.


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## JWJ (4 Jun 2017)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Britain is going to need to take a hard look at whether it still makes sense for police to not all be armed. While the odds of any one individual officer ever needing to fire their weapon will be slim, it would greatly increase the likelihood of a rapid intervention with sufficient force to stop an active threat in these instances. While Britain's policing model has largely sufficed for most crime (although we have seemed armed officers increasing in number and availability), police are increasingly going to be looked to to be the security against attacks such as these. Police should never be in the business of getting into fair fights, and the only way to have an advantage over a knife is with a gun.



I don't think arming our general officers is a good move.

We are vastly improving the numbers of AFOs, and ARV units, 10x the patrol and presence. However we're not doing it rapidly enough and we started the program too late to cover this attack. 

However maybe putting one AFO into every police patrol or per area/per x amount of officers would be a idea, armed with just a Glock or other sidearm incase of something like this.


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## Jarnhamar (4 Jun 2017)

Inclined to agree with you Brihard. Think the UK really needs to take a look at the unarmed police issue. The violence in Europe and the UK is getting worse, not better. 

Carbine sized  308 might  improve odds against weaponized vehicles.


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## Kat Stevens (4 Jun 2017)

PongoCadet said:
			
		

> I don't think arming our general officers is a good move.
> 
> We are vastly improving the numbers of AFOs, and ARV units, 10x the patrol and presence. However we're not doing it rapidly enough and we started the program too late to cover this attack.
> 
> However maybe putting one AFO into every police patrol or per area/per x amount of officers would be a idea, armed with just a Glock or other sidearm incase of something like this.



A Remington Defender in every car would be a big help.  When seconds count, fire support is minutes away.


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## brihard (4 Jun 2017)

PongoCadet said:
			
		

> I don't think arming our general officers is a good move.



I do, but I'm just a soldier and a cop in an urban centre with specific training for dealing with exactly this kind of active threat.

If even one police officer was in contact with these attackers before any armed officers were, and if even one civilian was injured subsequent to that contact, then that officer, if armed, could have prevented harm to the public, and should have been properly equipped to do so.

For police, the availability of firearms is simply an occupational health and safety issue. Britain, it appears, can no longer afford the luxury of waiting for armed officers to arrive on scene.




			
				Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Carbine sized  308 might  improve odds against weaponized vehicles.



Hard to say.. Realistically nay firearm carried will need to be appropriate to the vast majority of police encounters, not specifically tailored to this threat. If the point of guns is to stop a moving vehicle, then that's a different ball game - and really it's still not a great idea.

I've looked at a bunch of these attacks now, and I walked the ground at Nice a few days after it happened there. That one was a rare exception in how long it went on, and in that case the vehicle was actually stopped by a combination of police force and by damage sustained in running so much over. In most instances, the vehicles are stopped because the drivers either crash them, or voluntarily exist to continue the attack on foot. Realistically, a rogue vehicle will probably be only effectively and quickly stopped by putting another vehicle in front of it to immobilize it. The use of firearms, then, would be to respond to the occupants, who will likely remain an active threat until stopped.


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## Kat Stevens (4 Jun 2017)

A couple of deer slugs through a door panel does a great job of slowing a vehicle down, I'd imagine.


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## tomahawk6 (4 Jun 2017)

An SAS unit was deployed by helicopter pretty rapidly.


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## brihard (4 Jun 2017)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> A couple of deer slugs through a door panel does a great job of slowing a vehicle down, I'd imagine.



Only if the driver is struck an incapacitated. Good luck making that shot... Better be sure of your backstop.

Guns are a terrible option for stopping vehicles. Sometimes the terrible option is still your best one.


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## Kat Stevens (4 Jun 2017)

I thought it was implied that through the door panel would be the most direct route to the driver's inner workings. If it's what you've got, it's what you use.


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## Jarnhamar (4 Jun 2017)

I've stopped a gentlemen in a speeding car with some liberaly placed fmj 7.62 rounds.  Maybe not the best option in a friendly urban environment but when I think of the easy of access of vehicles combined with how destructive they are I'm leaving towards more heavy handed methods of stopping those jerks. 

Cracking down on extremists and turning that PC afraid to be called racist stuff would be effective too I think. 

Maybe explore more police forces switching to 300blk in their ar15s or something.


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## brihard (4 Jun 2017)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I've stopped a gentlemen in a speeding car with some liberaly placed fmj 7.62 rounds.  Maybe not the best option in a friendly urban environment but when I think of the easy of access of vehicles combined with how destructive they are I'm leaving towards more heavy handed methods of stopping those jerks.
> 
> Cracking down on extremists and turning that PC afraid to be called racist stuff would be effective too I think.
> 
> Maybe explore more police forces switching to 300blk in their ar15s or something.



Yup, but that'll be rare circumstances- and I bet in your case you had a belt fed. Assume anything police are carrying will be semiautomatic and a pistol or rifle (or still potentially shotgun). Police have to be far more cognizant of their backstop than soldiers in a war zone, it's just a different legal picture, and that definitely impacts what can be procured. Is it possible to incapacitate a driver with fire? Absolutely. It's just not likely to work, and there's a host of police experience and resulting policy coming from same.

More I'd like to say on the issue of stopping vehicles, but not on these means.



			
				Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I thought it was implied that through the door panel would be the most direct route to the driver's inner workings. If it's what you've got, it's what you use.



Sure, but hitting the driver does not inherently mean incapacitation. Unless you hit the brain/spinal cord, or they rapidly bleed out, you won't get a physical stop. Now, you may get a psychological stop- either quitting (unlikely), bailing out of the vehicle (possible) or getting distracted and crashing (more possible).

I'm not saying guns aren't a tool that can be used to stop cars. Sure they can. A screwdriver can be used as a hammer in some circumstances. I'm just saying you don't equip with guns to stop vehicles (in this context), you equip with guns to stop humans.

I think the best bet is target hardening. Configure more open roads such that there are physical barriers to driving up on sidewalks, across medians, etc. make it more likely to crash or get stuck. So we can shoot you in the face more easily.


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## Jarnhamar (4 Jun 2017)

Great point. Yes to the belt but it was a standard length burst  :camo:

Interesting idea about making urban areas harder targets  (I love walls and fortifications) but I think the sheer scope of modifying urban centers like that would be too expensive and chaotic.  A new city might lend itself well to that design though.

Any bets on if the attackers were 'known to the police' or had suspicious neighbours afraid to speak up? 

A bit of a tangent but do you think police need a heavier caliber than a 5.56 (encompassing regular work and stuff like this)?


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## JWJ (4 Jun 2017)

I guess the best bet trying to take out a vehicle going at speed with the kind of rounds Armed Police carry, is the engine block. But its not a action to plan on, besides the fact its unlikely for police to respond before the vehicle crashes (Nice was a very long situation).

With regards making these areas a hard target, thats something thats been slowly going on for the last few years in the UK. Its not obvious stuff like concrete blocks or dragon teeth, but benches that are made out of concrete that go deep into the ground, metal bus stops, reinforcing street signs and making it much harder to 1. drive into pedestrian areas and 2. stay in these areas. 

Obviously I'm not a expert in these areas so I'm not going to try to claim to be, I just like to research what measure are going on and how the Police/authorities respond to these incidents. 

I think the creation of the CTSFOs is a good thing, for those unaware the way Armed Police works in the UK is three levels of qualification that have different jobs, the entry level being Authorised Firearm Officer (AFO) who are trained to carry rifles and sidearms, patrol in Armed Response Vehicles and respond to incidents as required. Specialist Firearms Officers (SFOs) build upon this training to conduct more specialist stuff such as raids and hostage situations etc. Now with Counter-Terrorist Specialist Firearms Officers (CTSFOs) they're building regional teams that train solely for CT incidents and responses, with much upgraded equipment and weaponry, to a extremely high level of training (training and operating with UKSF). 

I think that its important to get CTSFO units rolled out to every region in the UK, as currently just London and Manchester have them I believe, with Scotland next on the list. That way theres a dedicated unit with the appropriate skills, training and equipment to deal with these incidents, in a good response time. 

Jarnhamar, depending on the Police Force the firearms officers work in, they get different weapons, for example CTSFOs use the SIG MCX 5.56mm as standard, with some larger calibre rifles embedded, where as some Forces still roll with MP5s and SG550s. Although you won't find larger calibres being carried in armed response vehicles. Maybe they need some sort of anti-vehicle capability with these attacks on the rise. Prehaps using some sort of specialist 40mm projectile in their 40mm launchers?


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## The Bread Guy (4 Jun 2017)

Some of the latest ...

_*"Canadian in the U.K. 'impacted' by London Bridge terrorist attack; High Commission"*_ (Canadian Press, via CTV.ca)
_*"London attackers kill seven, PM May says 'enough is enough' "*_ (Reuters)
WTF?  Already?!?!?  _*"London Bridge false flag alert – even CNN says “psy-op” "*_ (veteranstoday.com, run by these folks)

And, to bring just a tiny spark of levity to a pretty F#$%^&*d up event, in the midst of the fracas, at least one Londoner keeps his head ...





"I _paid_ for that pint, dammit!" (source) ...


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## Brad Sallows (4 Jun 2017)

>a van has hit a number of pedestrians

I greatly enjoy the phrasing used by the media in the initial stages of these attacks.  Looking forward to the arrest of the van, the truck, the firearms, etc.


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## daftandbarmy (4 Jun 2017)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Inclined to agree with you Brihard. Think the UK really needs to take a look at the unarmed police issue. The violence in Europe and the UK is getting worse, not better.
> 
> Carbine sized  308 might  improve odds against weaponized vehicles.



Even better, and more proactive? A larger, more effective network of snitches and 'deep cover' under cover operators.


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## Stoker (4 Jun 2017)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Even better, and more proactive? A larger, more effective network of snitches and 'deep cover' under cover operators.



I am convinced its a matter of time before we see more of that here.


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## The Bread Guy (4 Jun 2017)

This from the Metro Police via Twitter:


> 12 arrests in connection with last night's attacks in #LondonBridge & #BoroughMarket ...


This update, from the Metro Police (highilghts mine) ...


> _*Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, provides updated statement following the terror attacks in London Bridge and Borough Market.*_
> 
> He said:
> 
> ...


This statement from the PM*** - also attached if link doesn't work ...


> Last night, our country fell victim to a brutal terrorist attack once again. As a result I have just chaired a meeting of the government’s emergency committee and I want to update you with the latest information about the attack.
> 
> Shortly before 10:10 yesterday evening, the Metropolitan Police received reports that a white van had struck pedestrians on London Bridge. It continued to drive from London Bridge to Borough Market, where 3 terrorists left the van and attacked innocent and unarmed civilians with blades and knives.
> 
> ...


*** - A reminder:  Theresa May was the Home Secretary - "top cop" in grossly oversimplified headline-speak, Public Safety Minister in current Canadian cabinet-position-speak - from 2010 until 2016 (when she became PM).  It also appears her time as HomeSec was as part of what we would call in Canada Tory minority governments.


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## The Bread Guy (4 Jun 2017)

And word that a Canadian has been killed, via the PMJT info-machine...


> The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today issued the following statement after last night’s terrorist attack in the United Kingdom:
> 
> “Canada strongly condemns the senseless attack that took place last night in London, United Kingdom, which killed and injured many innocent people. I am heartbroken that a Canadian is among those killed.
> 
> ...


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## Cdn Blackshirt (4 Jun 2017)

I think one of the issues most people will gloss over is that PM May said they disrupted 5 "credible" attack plans since the Manchester attack.

If that is true, and each group had its own support structure, the claim that these violent beliefs reside in only a tiny (and heretical) portion of the islamic demographic becomes highly dubious. 

I should add that when these guys act out specific instructions from the Qur'an (such as "strike them in the neck") it blows holes in the argument that they are the ones misinterpreting the holy books.

Bad situation.....


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## a_majoor (4 Jun 2017)

Perhaps the only bit of good coming from this is the Britons who responded with the "United 93" defense, including a cabbie who tried to run down one attacker, and pub goers who fought an attacker with chairs, beer bottles and beer mugs.

Something to remember when this happens here; a pack of sheepdogs is very effective against a wolf.........


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## Jarnhamar (4 Jun 2017)

If and when this starts happening in North America and specifically Canada  more frequently we won't handle it very well socially. When one soldier was shot and killed our army was essentially  ordered to hide. 

The UK has considerable experience dealing with terror at home across a few generations. I don't know much about the FLQ crisis but I'd hazard a guess and say it's not comparable to the IRA. 

Canadians would be too paralyzed with fear to go anywhere  if someone jacked a truck and took out 80 people at a July 1st part.  We'd be busy blaming Harper and Trudeau but wouldn't take suitable action against radical Islam. 

[quote author=Cdn Blackshirt] .
violent beliefs reside in only a tiny (and heretical) portion of the islamic 

[/quote]

I see and hear that a lot. When only 1% of a group are "bad apples" but that adds up to tens or hundreds of millions of people that's pretty dangerous.


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## JWJ (4 Jun 2017)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> If and when this starts happening in North America and specifically Canada  more frequently we won't handle it very well socially. When one soldier was shot and killed our army was essentially  ordered to hide.
> 
> The UK has considerable experience dealing with terror at home across a few generations. I don't know much about the FLQ crisis but I'd hazard a guess and say it's not comparable to the IRA.
> 
> ...



Its unfortunately been a major part of British recent history. I've been raised by people that lived through the height of the IRA activity, who were raised by people who lived through the Blitz. Its a sad fact but its just my generation's 'trouble' that we will either have to crackdown on or just get on with.


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## Kirkhill (4 Jun 2017)

Best Article Yet!



> ...In the aftermath of these attacks, most people seem to choose one of two camps: the “love will prevail” pep-talkers and the “wake up!” warriors. Am I alone in finding that neither resonates? I can no more fill my heart with love and talk about our unity than I can furiously denounce others for their lack of rage, declare the West’s impending doom or demand the election be postponed.
> 
> *Denial or hysteria cannot be the only options. There is something in between. *Of course *daily life* does not sail on unchanged when it’s punctuated by terrorist attacks. It *carries on, but with a little more wariness and fear.* And yet, nor am I convinced that Islamist terrorism, despite its horrors, poses an existential threat to our civilisation. I believe that Britain and its values are resilient and deeply rooted. I believe this not because of “love”, but because it is one of the lessons of our history.
> 
> We have certainly faced greater perils. At various points, would-be invaders or empire-building tyrants on the continent have threatened Britain’s security. We’ve had tyrants of our own, civil war and bloody religious strife. We’ve had periods of greater vigilance, such as during the threat of IRA bombs. We’ve lived with official advice, such as “how to survive an air raid”, as terrifying as the police’s latest mantra that the public ought to “run, hide, tell” during a terrorist attack....



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/britains-democracy-hard-earned-should-look-history-tackle/


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## The Bread Guy (4 Jun 2017)

Global, among other media outlets, have identifed the Canadian killed in the attacks as Christine (Chrissy) Archibald of B.C.


Condolences to family & friends, and hopes for a speedy recovery to all the wounded.


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## Jarnhamar (4 Jun 2017)

Pretty sad stuff to digest as a parent.


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## jollyjacktar (4 Jun 2017)

My condolences to all those affected by the terrorist attacks.


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## The Bread Guy (5 Jun 2017)

Aaaaannnd ....


> #ISIS Includes #LondonAttacks Among Claimed Military Operations in its al-Bayan News Bulletin http://tinyurl.com/y7f7u47p [size=18pt]***


*** - Links to a subscription-only article by SITE Intel Group.


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## daftandbarmy (5 Jun 2017)

With only a short time to go until  General Election, looking tough on Terrorism could help May. 

Under the Prevention of Terrorism Act in NI, we could arrest and hold anyone for 4 hours on 'probable cause' for example. This was never used on the UK Mainland, but looks like it could be trotted out now. This is, of course, a double edged sword as a 'modification' of habeus corpus, accompanied by a dragnet extended across whole communities could pull in thousands of 'suspects', all of whom will be 'dark skinned' and many of whom will be under 30 and completely innocent and, thus, potentially primed for increased radicalization e.g., Operation Demetrius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius:

Theresa May responds to London Bridge attack with anti-terror laws promise 

Prime minister accused of politicising atrocity as she says there has been ‘far too much tolerance of extremism’ 

May is expected to introduce control orders for terror suspects. Iain Duncan Smith, a former Tory work and pensions secretary, told The World this Weekend that she would probably try to toughen up terrorism, prevention and investigation measures, known as Tpims.

These are the measures introduced by the coalition to place restrictions on people who are suspected of being terrorists but who have not been convicted of an offence.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/london-bridge-attack-pushes-theresa-may-into-promising-new-laws


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## The Bread Guy (5 Jun 2017)

A quick round-up by the New Jersey Office of Homeland Security & Preparedness (which regularly shares all sorts of open-source analysis of regional, national and international developments here) - also attached if link doesn't work - with a "look back" chart:


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## Kirkhill (5 Jun 2017)

And then there were the professionals - now in Parliament

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-security-bombings-idUKTRE74F31Q20110516




> Here is a timeline of some of the worst bomb attacks on mainland Britain by Irish dissident groups in the last 35 years.
> 
> February 1974 - Coach carrying soldiers and families in northern England is bombed by the Irish Republican Army (IRA). Twelve people killed, 14 hurt.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (5 Jun 2017)

Chris Pook said:
			
		

> And then there were the professionals - now in Parliament
> 
> http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-security-bombings-idUKTRE74F31Q20110516


On the other hand, to show how time & choosing different ways to handle things works out, BBC Ulster airs weekly comedy podcasts ("The Blame Game" and "A Perforated Ulster"), recorded in front of live audiences, that throw a few related zingers in there from time to time.  

One joke during an issue with a historic clock that stopped in Belfast, one comedian said, "If the politician complaining was Sinn Fein, there's no way he didn't know _someone_ who knew _something_ about timers."  Another more recent one-liner:  How can you tell Batman must be IRA?  He wears a mask and has a a second name.


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## Jarnhamar (5 Jun 2017)

[quote author=Jarnhamar] .

Any bets on if the attackers were 'known to the police' or had suspicious neighbours afraid to speak up? 


[/quote]

https://www.rt.com/uk/391020-jihadi-documentary-terrorists-london/

Known to the police AND appeared on a documentary 'The Jihadist Next Door’   :


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## tomahawk6 (5 Jun 2017)

Plenty of concerned friends and neighbors called in to the CT hotline but t5here was never any follow up. Maybe a new broom will get elected Thursday.


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## The Bread Guy (5 Jun 2017)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> ... Maybe a new broom will get elected Thursday.


Reminder:  Tories in power since May 2010 (but in a minority position all the way thru, with Labour coming in second place re:  # of seats in both 2010 and 2015).

This from Metro Police - *highlights* mine:


> *Monday, 5 June at 21:55hrs* (1655 Eastern)
> 
> Specialist officers are working with families of victims and the Coroner to identify those who were killed in Saturday's attack at the appropriate time.
> 
> ...


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## Jarnhamar (6 Jun 2017)

> Khuram Shazad Butt was known to the police and MI5. However, there was no intelligence to suggest that this attack was being planned



I don't know, I'm not a cop but if someone was appearing on "the Jihadist Next door" I'd assume he was planning an attack. Unless I'm using the wrong definition of jihad.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Jun 2017)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> > Khuram Shazad Butt was known to the police and MI5. However, there was no intelligence to suggest that this attack was being planned
> 
> 
> I don't know, I'm not a cop but if someone was appearing on "the Jihadist Next door" I'd assume he was planning an attack. Unless I'm using the wrong definition of jihad.


Right after the sentence you quoted, it said "the investigation had been prioritised accordingly."  Need for more investigative resources?  Fair question to ask - and I think it's going to get asked a LOT in the next while.  But if you only have what you have and need to pick/choose which cases (out of the 20K folks of some level of interest) require further digging, there's not much else one can do if there was nothing suggesting any planning.

The nitpicker in me notes the police choose to use the word "intelligence" rather than "evidence".  Does that mean if there was "evidence" (as in court standard), they _might_ have been able to do more beforehand?  NOT second guessing the cops by any means, but wondering about the wording/process.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Jun 2017)

And the third one's been ID'ed - this from Metro Police ...


> *Tuesday, 6 June at 11:40hrs* _(0640 Eastern)_
> 
> The Met's Counter Terrorism Command has released the name and photograph of the third attacker shot dead by police following the terrorist attacks on London Bridge and at Borough Market on Saturday.
> 
> ...


Metro Police image attached -- (L-R) Khuram Shazad Butt, Rachid Redouane and Youssef Zaghba


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## daftandbarmy (6 Jun 2017)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Plenty of concerned friends and neighbors called in to the CT hotline but t5here was never any follow up. Maybe a new broom will get elected Thursday.



An amazing number of people will use these hotlines to 'get back' at people they don't like. The police, therefore, take ages sorting wheat from chaff ....


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## Journeyman (6 Jun 2017)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> An amazing number of people will use these hotlines to 'get back' at people they don't like. The police, therefore, take ages sorting wheat from chaff ....


In addition to the calls apparently being made 5-, 3-, and 1-year prior, the closest I could get to 'plenty' is one Italian-named woman and "an anonymous person claimed he called the CT line..."

It's always easier in hindsight.


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## Loachman (6 Jun 2017)

PongoCadet said:
			
		

> for those unaware the way Armed Police works in the UK



Unless and until ALL police are armed, then it doesn't "work".

The unarmed Bobby was a nice concept, sadly now undated. Failure to adapt to current times leads to death, injury, and grieving. It is unbelievably naive and inexcusable.

There are clips on Youtube showing unarmed police running ahead of pursuing mobs yelling "Allahu Akbar" and "Run, cowards". Want to encourage these people? Show weakness liberally sprinkled with stupidity due to unreasonable adherence to tradition and hoplophobia.

Arm all police. Authorize them to carry their pistols concealed while off-duty. That is a small first step.


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## Retired AF Guy (6 Jun 2017)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Plenty of concerned friends and neighbors called in to the CT hotline but t5here was never any follow up. Maybe a new broom will get elected Thursday.



Be careful what you wish for: If Corbyn gets elected he has promised to get rid of the whole UK CT Strategy.


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## daftandbarmy (7 Jun 2017)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Arm all police. Authorize them to carry their pistols concealed while off-duty. That is a small first step.



Not so small when you realize the deterrent effect of all police being armed (as in Northern Ireland) vs. Jihad Johnnie knowing that he has about 10 minutes to chop people up before the gunslingers stand to.


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## dimsum (7 Jun 2017)

Wonder if this man will end up getting a commendation/medal?



> Football fan shouted 'F*** you, I’m Millwall' and took on knife-wielding terrorists with his bare fists
> 
> Calls for Roy Larner, the 'Lion of London Bridge', to be given a medal after reportedly saving lives and making Millwall fans popular by single-handedly taking on the three attackers
> 
> ...




http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/football-fan-shouted-f-you-im-millwall-and-took-on-knifewielding-terrorists-with-his-bare-fists-35795151.html


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## jollyjacktar (7 Jun 2017)

Love the bit about the magazine.


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## Kirkhill (7 Jun 2017)

And that's why the Brits field great infantry......always up for a bit aggro.  Now if it had been Arsenal....  Or better yet Hotspur...


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## Kat Stevens (8 Jun 2017)

Chris Pook said:
			
		

> And that's why the Brits field great infantry......always up for a bit aggro.  Now if it had been Arsenal....  Or better yet Hotspur...



Ahem..."Spurs", and West Ham fans regularly kick shit out of Milwall fans.


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## Kirkhill (8 Jun 2017)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Ahem..."Spurs", and West Ham fans regularly kick shit out of Milwall fans.



Yeah, but you have to admit the thought of them being tackled by a "Yid" is intriguing.  >

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/10908591/Yid-chanting-by-Tottenham-Hotspur-fans-no-longer-an-arrestable-offence-at-White-Hart-Lane-says-Metropolitan-Police.html


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## The Bread Guy (12 Jun 2017)

Another arrest - this from Metro Police:


> ... Detectives investigating the London Bridge terror attack carried out a warrant, and made a further arrest in east London this evening, Sunday, 11 June.
> 
> At 21:50hrs officers from the Met's Counter Terrorism Command, supported by the Territorial Support Group, arrested a 19-year-old man [ U ] at an address in Barking.
> 
> ...


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## mariomike (18 Oct 2017)

London Ambulance Service reviews terror attack protocol after 'run, hide, tell' advice made casualties hard to find.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-ambulance-service-to-review-terror-attack-protocol-after-run-hide-tell-advice-made-casualties-a3661616.html
A number of those caught up in the London Bridge attack were so well “barricaded” into hiding places in Borough Market that it took some time before they were found and given medical treatment.


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