# Medical Release - CIC Officer



## Str1k3r (14 Mar 2013)

Just a quick question and I'm pretty sure I know the answer but information is free. Unfortunately I am being medically release from the reg force but I am still interested in serving the CF. I spent almost 8 years in the army cadets and would like to know if it is at all possible for an item 3B release to become CIC? I know for a fact I can volunteer my time as a civilian to aid with the local cadets corps but I would like to know if anyone has any input. Thank You forum.


----------



## my72jeep (14 Mar 2013)

9 out of 10 times if your Medically Released from the Reg force, you wont meet the Medical requirements for enrolment in the CIC.


----------



## SeR (14 Mar 2013)

> CF members of the Canadian Rangers, *COATS* and Supp Res are not required to meet the minimum operational standards unless attached, seconded or transferred on consent to the Reg F or P Res.



http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5023-1-eng.asp


----------



## Nfld Sapper (14 Mar 2013)

Which doesn't jive with this:



> Who can become a CIC Officer
> 
> You must be between 18 and 64 years of age;
> You must hold a secondary school diploma or equivalent;
> ...



VCDS Home > CIC Home > How to Apply


----------



## SeR (14 Mar 2013)

> You must meet the *specific* medical standard.



I'm not in the CIC, but wouldn't this mean they have their own medical standards?


----------



## Nfld Sapper (14 Mar 2013)

Unless it has changed since this was posted in 2008:



> Minimum medical for CF CIC is V4 CV3 H3 G3 O3 A5  Same as for general officers.
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/pdf/engraph/cfp154_annexEappen1-2_e.pdf LINK IS NOW BROKEN
> 
> d. meet the medical standards prescribed in CANFORGEN 070/07. Normally, the applicant must have a medical category no lower than V4 CV3 H3 G3 O3 A5. An applicant with a medical category below this standard but not lower than V4 CV3 H4 G4 O4 A5 may be accepted if the command surgeon approves the medical limitations and certifies that any medical condition will not be aggravated by military service;
> ...



 CIC Physical Fitness Standards - Split from Transfer from PRes to CIC


The medical standard shown is for initial assignment to the MOSID (COATS Sub-component) occupation. An applicant with a medical category below this standard but not below V4 CV3 H4 G4 O4 A5 may be accepted for enrolment with employment limitations providing any existing medical condition will not be aggravated by military service. CF medical standards are detailed in A-MD-154-000/FP-000.

A higher medical standard may be applied based on job requirements

Medical Standards (CFP 154) - Annex E

Minimum Medical Standards for
Officers/Non-Commissioned

Military Occupation Code (MOC)
Military Occupational Structure Identification (MOS ID)

NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS


----------



## ModlrMike (14 Mar 2013)

The last medical I did for a CIC applicant required that the candidate be able to breathe and have a pulse.  ;D


----------



## dapaterson (14 Mar 2013)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> The last medical I did for a CIC applicant required that the candidate be able to breathe and have a pulse.  ;D



Did he pass?


----------



## catalyst (14 Mar 2013)

Its one thing to meet the minimum medical standards, but its another thing to have medical employment limitations which may hinder your time/positions/summer staffing.


----------



## my72jeep (14 Mar 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Did he pass?


I bet they did as we have to many useless retion eaters as it is, who would know if we had one more.


----------



## GnyHwy (14 Mar 2013)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> 9 out of 10 times if your Medically Released from the Reg force, you wont meet the Medical requirements for enrolment in the CIC.



That is technically incorrect, and your 9 out of 10 stat is clearly just a figure of speech.  You can't answer the OP's question without knowing their category.

If a person is combat arms, they need to be G2 and O2.  If they become a 3 in either, and they are not offered a medical OT to a G3 or O3 trade or one is not available, they could be a G3 and O3 and not have a job in the Reg force.  Therefore, be released while being medically fit for many trades, including CIC.

Whether they get passed over for "other" reasons is an entirely different thing.

The definition of categories http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/CH-3-eng.asp


----------



## my72jeep (14 Mar 2013)

Yes it is, but in 20 years with the CIC I have seen a lot of Reg and Res with medical issues leave and try the CIC and get rejected. Reason given We don't think your able to serve here why would we thing your able to serve there? My $0.02.


----------



## SeR (14 Mar 2013)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Why would we thing your able to serve there?



Because the role of the CIC is to instruct cadets, not to deploy overseas.


----------



## my72jeep (14 Mar 2013)

SeR said:
			
		

> Because the role of the CIC is to instruct cadets, not to deploy overseas.


I was Told One standard "Universality of Service"


----------



## SeR (14 Mar 2013)

If there is one standard, explain the reason why an infantry soldier must have V3 while a vehicle technician only needs V4?

There is one standard for each occupation and that is dependent upon their role.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (14 Mar 2013)

If I am not mistaken there is a minimum standard for entry into the CF and those I previous listed are for retention in the trade....


----------



## ArmyGuy99 (24 Mar 2013)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> I was Told One standard "Universality of Service"



Universality of Service does not apply to COATS or the CIC as they are not required to operationally deploy.

Now for the difference;

COATS are positions created to support the Cadet movement that are filled by PRES and RegF members, these members do not need to meet the normal CF Medical Standards and they can even breach UoS.  

CIC or Cadet Instructor Cadre, are the Officer Corps of the Cadet movement and are recruited by the various Cadet corps to work there.  They are processed by the normal recruiting system however they have separate medical standards;

G404 is the max without a waiver from area command accepting responsibility (the "has a pulse and can breath standard", usually granted, although there are those that have been rejected)

Lots of people have been released 3B and then turned around and became CIC Officers to give back to such a great movement.




And for the other question regarding UoS;

UoS refers to the ability of every soldier, sailor, airmen to be deployed operationally at anytime.  This can breached temporally, however once a breach becomes permanent it's 3B time.

On top of that, each trade has it's own specific medical standards that need to be met as well.  

If you breach your trade but still meet UoS, the review board CAN re-trade you.


Can you tell I had my coffee this am  k:


----------



## quadrapiper (24 Mar 2013)

On a tangent - while it is clearly understood that universality of service (the ability to meet a certain basic standard for deployability) doesn't apply to CIC, or (effectively) to non-CIC COATS pers, there's been some scuttlebutt lately that unlimited liability _also_ doesn't apply. 

While it's entirely possible I missed something somewhere along the line, my understanding is that it's not "not applicable" by regulation, just incredibly far from the environment that CIC work in 99.99% of the time.

Slightly closer to topic, I wonder if, with the long-term introduction of fitness standards to the CIC world, there'll be higher standards set as part of the enrollment medical, to ensure personnel aren't going to break themselves the first time they do a FORCE test.


----------



## ArmyGuy99 (25 Mar 2013)

quadrapiper,

An interesting statement about Unlimited Liability.  I believe that for COATS Unlimited Liability will still apply because of the nature of their original enlistment.   I don't think CIC officers are expected to give up their lives for Queen and Country, but that info is outside my lanes.  Perhaps someone from area or higher will pop in and answer the question. Or perhaps it's buried here already somewhere in the forums.

I do know that CIC personal are treated as class A/B reservists when it comes to medical care.


----------

