# Bad Guys Using Google Earth in IRQ



## The Bread Guy (13 Jan 2007)

I know there's been a fair bit of discussion elsewhere on Google Earth
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49829.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/50362.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51876.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33362.0.html

but I figured this is specific enough to include here - mods, feel free to shuffle.

 Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

*Terrorists 'use Google maps to hit UK troops'*
Thomas Harding, Telegraph (UK), 13 Jan 07
Article Link

Terrorists attacking British bases in Basra are using aerial footage displayed by the Google Earth internet tool to pinpoint their attacks, say Army intelligence sources.

Documents seized during raids on the homes of insurgents last week uncovered print-outs from photographs taken from Google.

The satellite photographs show in detail the buildings inside the bases and vulnerable areas such as tented accommodation, lavatory blocks and where lightly armoured Land Rovers are parked.

Written on the back of one set of photographs taken of the Shatt al Arab Hotel, headquarters for the 1,000 men of the Staffordshire Regiment battle group, officers found the camp's precise longitude and latitude.

"This is evidence as far as we are concerned for planning terrorist attacks," said an intelligence officer with the Royal Green Jackets battle group. "Who would otherwise have Google Earth imagery of one of our bases?

"We are concerned that they use them to plan attacks. We have never had proof that they have deliberately targeted any area of the camp using these images but presumably they are of great use to them.

"We believe they use Google Earth to identify the most vulnerable areas such as tents."

One soldier has been killed in the past six months following a mortar attack and there have been several injuries.

Since the maps were found intelligence chiefs have been keeping track of where rounds land to see if the insurgents are using them to pinpoint weakly protected areas.

The British camps experience mortar and rocket attacks on a daily basis.

Salvos are fired from up to four miles away and are increasingly accurate.

Yesterday three rounds were fired into Basra Palace at a block close to where The Daily Telegraph was staying. No one was injured.

Intelligence sources also believe that the insurgents are receiving more training and weaponry from Iran to improve their fighting skills. But the British are gathering more intelligence on mortar crews and launching several "strike operations" to detain the operators.

Anyone with the internet can sign up to Google Earth and by simply typing in the name of a location they can receive very detailed imagery down to identifying types of vehicles.

The company is one of several internet outlets that buy aerial imagery, usually taken by aircraft but sometimes by satellite, from governments or mapping companies.

It is unclear how old the maps are but it is believed the Basra images were made within the past two years.

Major Charlie Burbridge, the British military spokesman in Iraq, said: "We take the security of our bases very seriously and we constantly review the means to provide secure accommodation for our soldiers.

"There is a constant threat of reconnaissance missions to access our bases and using these internet images is just another method of how this is conducted."

*A Google spokesman said the information could be used for "good and bad" and was available to the public in many forms. "Of course we are always ready to listen to governments' requests," he said.

"We have opened channels with the military in Iraq but we are not prepared to discuss what we have discussed with them. But we do listen and we are sensitive to requests."*

There have also been reports that the images are being sold to rogue militias in the market place in Basra.

The British security services are concerned that terrorists will be able to examine in detail sensitive infrastructure such as electricity stations, military basis, and their own headquarters in London.

Soldiers from the Royal Green Jackets based at the Basra Palace base said they had considered suing Google Earth if they were injured by mortar rounds that had been directed on the camp by the aerial footage.

"Even if they did blank out the areas where we are based it is a bit after the horse has bolted as the terrorist now have the maps and know exactly where we eat, sleep and go to the toilet," one soldier said.


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## gaspasser (13 Jan 2007)

I have used Google Earth to snoop around the world, even tried my own house, and the up-to-dated-ness of the (sometimes) low-res scans were old.  So , I can't really see how the bad guys are overly using GE to pinpoint soft targets that were placed there just the other day. However, if you haven't moved your porta potties in the last six months, now would be a good time.   Just my humble little opinion.


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## westie048 (17 Jan 2007)

Well this kind of goes to show us that we are looking at a enemy that can be smart. It may not work for veh. but to give them an idea of what the base looks like. 




 :skull:


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## Pinto (18 Jan 2007)

I agree with BYT Driver; there is no way that the images in Google Earth are up-to-date enough for this kind of thing to happen. Not to mention that only a relatively small amount of hi-res images exist; the majority of Google Earth images are lo-res and not good enough for targeting. I think this is another case of a reporter taking a bit of creative license with the facts...

Now, using Google Earth to plan terrorist attacks of military (or other) installations that have been in place for some time, that I can believe. The imagery of the Pentagon (world's biggest office building) is clear and detailed; it also shows the construction going on after the 9/11 attack.

Cheers!


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## George Wallace (18 Jan 2007)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> I have used Google Earth to snoop around the world, even tried my own house, and the up-to-dated-ness of the (sometimes) low-res scans were old.  So , I can't really see how the bad guys are overly using GE to pinpoint soft targets that were placed there just the other day. However, if you haven't moved your porta potties in the last six months, now would be a good time.   Just my humble little opinion.



This may be true in your case.  I have also Googled my house and that of my old house, and found the imagery rather dated in some cases.

I have also Googled Iraq.  I Googled Tikrit which has a major Air Base.  Two years ago there were Sea Containers and a large number of Log Vehs on the Air Strip and Log installations blocking them.  A more recent search showed the Air Field cleared, and Air Force activities going on.

You have to remember that Google is a Private enterprise, and will publish what they have.  They will update their imagery when someone pays for the satellite time.  If someone has the money and interest in an area, they can pay for that imagery, which Google will use to update their site and share with everyone.  Who isn't to say that this is exactly what is/has been done by "the Bad Guys".

You too can get a more recent image of your house, if you are willing to pay the price.


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## Globesmasher (18 Jan 2007)

westie048 said:
			
		

> Well this kind of goes to show us that we are looking at a enemy that can be smart.



Yup - our "base that cannot be named" is shown quite well on Google Earth.
That bothers me a little.


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## 241 (19 Jan 2007)

I have been told that the Paying Google Earth Subscribers get better quality images, as well that the areas that are looked at more often have the better images, not sure if this is true on not, but if it is the case you might be able to tell where they may strike using google earth info....  ???


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## sober_ruski (19 Jan 2007)

Google Earth has my 80K home town in middle of nowhere Russia in rather hi-res images.I dont see why they wouldnt have hi-res pics of recent installations.

 Strangely enough, base where my dad used to work is not there  :


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## Meridian (19 Jan 2007)

Google Earth has a 3 year policy on the date of their updates to their imagery;  IIRC they collect the imagery from multiple different sources to curb costs.

This means that obviously they are not going to be able to pinpoint exactly which truck is where, but if the general layout of a major base/FOB has not changed in the last 3 or so years, I don't see it being a huge leap for the Tali to pull off a Sat Image of that layout for a little advance recon, even if the ground situation has actually changed.   Plus, it also doesn't really require that they are using this for a full on assault on the base, but rather a better idea for where to aim their RPGs, no?


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## George Wallace (19 Jan 2007)

241 said:
			
		

> I have been told that the Paying Google Earth Subscribers get better quality images, as well that the areas that are looked at more often have the better images, not sure if this is true on not, but if it is the case you might be able to tell where they may strike using google earth info....  ???



Satellite time costs money.  Looking at an area a lot from your home PCs doesn't do anything, unless someone puts up the cash to get images of that area.  

Who controls the satellites, and who pays the biggest bucks, will dictate what the imagery will look like.  If the Government wants to pay big bucks to "Censor" certain areas, then they will, and those areas will have very low resolution.  If an Oil Company wants a High Res Scan of the Alterta Tar Sands, then it will be done for a tidy fee.  It works both ways.

Not too many people are interesting in seeing miles of Canadian wilderness in High Resolution, so anyone living outside of a major metropolitan area is not likely to find a High Res scan of their "backyard", unless someone with big bucks was willing to pay for it.


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## Yrys (7 Mar 2008)

Pentagon bans Google map-makers



> The US defence department has banned the giant internet search engine Google from filming inside and making detailed studies of US military bases.
> 
> Close-up, ground-level imagery of US military sites posed a "potential threat" to security, it said. The move follows the discovery of images of the Fort Sam
> Houston army base in Texas on Google Maps. A Google spokesman said that where the US military had expressed concerns, images had been removed.
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Mar 2008)

241 said:
			
		

> I have been told that the Paying Google Earth Subscribers get better quality images, as well that the areas that are looked at more often have the better images, not sure if this is true on not, but if it is the case you might be able to tell where they may strike using google earth info....  ???



No the Google Earth professional version uses the same data, you just get more features to manipulate it. All the same data can be easily accessed through Flashearth.com as well

http://www.flashearth.com/


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## OkotoksRookie (7 Mar 2008)

I dunno if this is a new feature or not but certain areas (only in the states only thus far) have the ability to zoom so far and change view so it looks as if your driving down the street. I cannot fathom a plausible reason for this other then 'hey it looks cool', and I can't imagine why it wouldn't be an invasion of privacy. Scary stuff......


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Mar 2008)

That is only in certain areas with 3D imagery, mostly in the US, a lot of municipalities use Aerail photo's layered with GIS information to determine where sewerpipes, manholes, valves, telephone poles and street lamps are located. Coupled with survey quality GPS, they can get accuracy of up to 2cm for locations of infrastructure. In fact Ladner obtains aerail imagery every couple of years which they overlay to find who has added additions to their houses without permits, little big brother is watching you!

I am attending a demo of Radarsat II stuff next week.


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## ballz (7 Mar 2008)

On google maps, which if I understand correctly isn't quite as good as Google Earth (or at most it's only as good as it), I can view my old treehouse in my old town of 500 people in a rather isolated part of Newfoundland... If I can see that much detail of my old hometown, I'm sure there are ways terrorists with a little expired CIA training can use the info.


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Mar 2008)

ballz said:
			
		

> On google maps, which if I understand correctly isn't quite as good as Google Earth (or at most it's only as good as it), I can view my old treehouse in my old town of 500 people in a rather isolated part of Newfoundland... If I can see that much detail of my old hometown, I'm sure there are ways terrorists with a little expired CIA training can use the info.



Except that any "expired CIA training" would not have included courses on a system that did not yet exist and I somehow doubt they taught a 3-4 week course on interpreting air photo's. Also the minor fact that most of the guys the CIA supported are with the Northern Alliance and that the Taliban are more of a product of the ISI, speaking of reaping what they sow I wonder how the Pakistanni's are enjoying their handiwork?


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## ballz (7 Mar 2008)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Except that any "expired CIA training" would not have included courses on a system that did not yet exist and I somehow doubt they taught a 3-4 week course on interpreting air photo's. Also the minor fact that most of the guys the CIA supported are with the Northern Alliance and that the Taliban are more of a product of the ISI, speaking of reaping what they sow I wonder how the Pakistanni's are enjoying their handiwork?



Touche, touche. However, my only point about the CIA training was that these people aren't the biggest idiots in the world, and any idiot could make value of information like that, so the Taliban definately can.


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## George Wallace (7 Mar 2008)

Get real.  Google Earth is not HIGH RES covering the whole earth, nor is it always up to date.


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## Old Ranger (7 Mar 2008)

The whole 3 year thing is bull pucky.  My house is over 7 years old and it only shows dirt were it is.


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## tdr_aust (8 Mar 2008)

Yes but the pictures are upgraded area by area depending on various “demands”. 

Before I could semi guess where my house was now I can see the place. Also the latest pictures that cover the area with my horse stables lets me see each horse in its day yard. Even the Gray mare standing on a pile of hay is visible due to her shadow.


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## tomahawk6 (8 Mar 2008)

Military installations have no business on google earth and only enable the bad guys to plan an attack much more precisely.


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## ballz (8 Mar 2008)

the pentagon is taking the threat seriously.

http://technology.sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/Pentagon+bans+Google+from+mapping+military+bases/News/ContentPosting.aspx?isfa=1&newsitemid=google-maps&feedname=CBC-TECH-SCIENCE&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=True


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## 1feral1 (8 Mar 2008)

I often go googling around Baghdad, and seach out my old FOB. The pics used are at least 4 yrs old, so I don't think its that tactically important, especially HUMINT is much better and current for fortifications and VCPs etc.

The 4 yr old images were useless to me. Some streets are now closed off, T-walls, etc, things change, and old images are simply that - old.


Cheers,

Wes


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