# USSOCOM Adopts FN Rifle System for SCAR



## Kirkhill (21 Jan 2005)

http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/SCAR.jpg
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.4308111.1089903978.QPadasOa9dUAAESlMZk&modele=jdc_34

USSOCOM has adopted this weapons system in 5.56 and 7.62, apparently quick change to replace the M4, the Mk11, the M14 and the Mk12 rifles.


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## KevinB (21 Jan 2005)

No they have not.

What they did is a search for a possible replacement and SCAR has goen into protype testing (12 models)

Ignore Defence Review - the guy is an IDIOT
SCAR is very much in doubt - it has to be proven to be a better system than the current crop.  AND the US ARMY has just recently releaesed a MWS request that may put SCAR (whos funding has been pretty much trashed) in permamnet limbo like the XM-8


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## Kirkhill (21 Jan 2005)

Thanks for the clarification Kevin.  Though I hope you can understand my confusion.....



> United States Special Operations Command Announces Award for the Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR) to FN Herstal
> 
> 
> (Source: FN Herstal; issued Jan. 20, 2005)
> ...


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## tomahawk6 (22 Jan 2005)

You are correct that the FN prototype won the contract. Here is a powerpoint presentation that shows an overview of the program.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/spell.ppt


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## Kirkhill (22 Jan 2005)

Thanks tomahawk


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## KevinB (25 Jan 2005)

I have spoken to Paul Miller at Crane who is the Project Manager for SCAR - and as well the Mini Day/Nigth Sight's PM Gus Taylor.  I also know a few people at FN.

 All the SuperFNC/SCAR gun did is win the downselect for 12 prototypes.

What has to happen now is the 12 prototypes get the crap kicked out fo them in testing beside the M4A1 to see if it really is all that.  I know mnay US SOF end users are already upset with some issues on the SCAR prototypes.
  The mag release fence - the pencil barrel - etc...


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## Kirkhill (25 Jan 2005)

Good enough Kevin, thanks

That does make sense.  624k for a dozen prototypes and some testing and development sounds about right.  Doesn't sound like a bulk buy right enough.

Cheers,


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## KevinB (25 Jan 2005)

Dont get me wrong - I think FN can and will improve the system.  The problem will be the weight will go up --> same situations as the XM-8 fiasco

  Diemaco had high hopes on SCAR - I spoke to one of their higher folks about the project (they had entires) -- SCAR could evolve into oor SARPIII gun 10-15 years down the road...

 Time will tell however IF the US budget will allow for a new weapons developement project they are killing of R&D on a vast amount of things to finance the Iraqi "project"-- I will know more on Friday at SHOT where I can pester a few buddies in USSOC and FN.


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## Scoobie Newbie (25 Jan 2005)

SARPIII???


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## eliteboris (25 Jan 2005)

I don't see what is so wrong with the m4a1 that i needs to be replaced. THe SCAR looks bulkier and would be heavier with all the metal. The m4a1 is battle tested. Maybe someone can enlighten me.


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## KevinB (25 Jan 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> SARPIII???



 Go look on the DIN...
Or remind Mike and I will flip him the link.


Eliteboris  weapons have finite lives (something the CF seems to forget about constantly)
 USSOC pers in some units fire more than 75k a year of rounds.  Same with Canadian SOF.

 Carbines are pretty much done for at the 12-15K mark - barrels and bolts - and over a year an individual in such a unit can cylce through 3 weapons - some will be good to got just needing a new barrel and bolt (and bolts give way usually before the barrels) - others pins will have been damaged - the annodising worn etc and have to go to depot level rebuild or taken out fo service and be destroyed for they are no longer fit.

SO USSOC descided if they have to keep buying new M4A1's all the time - they might want to look at replacign the system with a longer lasting and incrementally improved system.


Cheers


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## eliteboris (26 Jan 2005)

Alright thank you, that is a good point.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jan 2005)

I just checked the DIN under SARPIII and its variations and got nothing.


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## Ex-Dragoon (26 Jan 2005)

Try here:
http://www.vcds.forces.gc.ca/dgsp/pubs/rep-pub/ddm/scip/annex/ct04_e.asp#36.5


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jan 2005)

Thanks


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## KevinB (26 Jan 2005)

I know the open source one says SARP II - but the DIN version refers to greater costing breakdown and SARPIII as well as PDW and other info.

I am out till the 7th of March playing doorkicker and bullet taker - I will try to remember to flip you the DIN budget link.


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Jan 2005)

Thanks.  I hope in the mean time they decide to bring the .50 back for the G Wagon.


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## Canadian Sig (11 Apr 2005)

Anybody else seen this? Looks like a very adaptable weapon system.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm


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## tomahawk6 (11 Apr 2005)

Its the new rifle selected by Army Special Operations Command. I suspect it will compete with the XM-8 for Army wide issue.


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## Canadian Sig (11 Apr 2005)

Interesting that it as no bayonet mounting system.  :bullet:


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## tomahawk6 (11 Apr 2005)

I am sure the SF doesnt feel one is necessary. However, if the rifle were accepted for service wide issue it would have one fitted. Bayonet charges are not as common as they once were but it still is desired for infantry units.


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## Ex-Dragoon (11 Apr 2005)

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25721.15.html

Also discussed above.


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## Canadian Sig (11 Apr 2005)

Thanks Ex-D. Just ran across it while surfing. Shoulda done a search before posting.  :-\


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## KevinB (12 Apr 2005)

Well RISII got green lighted again by USSOC - so it looks like the M4/M16 FOW is not going anywhere anytime soon.

 SCAR, MWS, XM-8 is not in the near term anytime soon.


6.8 has dropped off the face of the map too!   (although guys using them say it work VERY well.)


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## Babbling Brooks (5 Mar 2008)

Video of the FN SCAR rifles up at The Torch:

http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/03/let-endless-debates-begin-anew.html

Sounds like SOCOM's decision to go with the Mk16 and Mk17 is final.

I'd be interested to hear what folks around here think of SOCOM's decision to go away from a Colt product, especially since it seems that Colt Canada (Diemaco) apparently competed for this contract.


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## LordOsborne (5 Mar 2008)

Kevin can probably shed a lot more light on the SCAR than I could, but IMHO, I think the SCAR looks like a robust and capable weapon system. I like how modular it is, and I like the option of putting different barrel lengths / calibre combinations together. Granted, I don't know how the SCAR stacks up against other 'next-gen' weapons like the HK 416/417, the XM-8 and the FN-2000 (to name a few), but it would be interesting to see if it makes the list as a potential C7 replacement.


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## Panzer Grenadier (5 Mar 2008)

My knowledge on small arms systems is limited so bare with me.  With a C7 as my primary weapon - the HK416 system to me looks quite promising.  The short stroke piston system ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_HK416 ) seems that it would save alot of time on cleaning and maintenance and cut down on all the carbon fouling.


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