# Medical Assistant - Reserve



## FredDaHead

Hey guys, I‘m thinking of going in the reserves as a medical assistant, but I‘d like more details on the actual job. Do med.assistants go out with infantry soldiers regularly, or do they stay on base and wait for the wounded to get to the hospital? What would be the chances of being on an exercise as a medical assistant? 

I dunno if it should be a seperate post in the recruiting section, (moderators tell me if I should post there) but the DND website says you need a HS diploma to be a medic, but I‘m currently finishing HS with chem. classes, and did biology last year, so can I join up and do basic this summer, or do I have to wait until I have completed high school, and then join up? Also, I tried to get into the infantry last year, but was refused because a botched test came out with my eyes being too weak for that job, so do I have to go through the whole process again, or can I just pick up from where I left, but go into another trade?

Thanks for any answers, it‘s appreciated.


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## combat_medic

Well, the chances of you getting into an infantry unit as a Medic are slim to none. He||, they‘re trying to make ME go back to a med coy. Of course, that will happen over my dead body.

Anyway, as a reserve Med A you will do a lot of medical training, casualty simulations, and so on, but rarely will you actually ever treat a real human being who‘s really injured unless you do an MIR tasking in the summer. In all the time I‘ve been a medic (about 3-4 years), the only time a medic from a med coy came out with my unit was one patrol ex when I was sick and couldn‘t make it, and for a live fire grenade range in Canada we need a QL5 Reg force med a present.

That‘s it.

If you can manage it, try to get attached to a combat arms unit. I see about half a dozen casualties every single exercise. They may not be as interesting as the simulations that the Medical Companies do, but these are actually real. Being a medic in a combat arms unit is the best job too because you get the best of both worlds: you can learn all of the medical stuff, but still go on a fighting patrol, or do a live fire section attack.


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## SpinDoc

Although a cynic might tell you that most of the time, the Med A is an under-appreciated blister specialist...  

But I agree, you‘d definitely (from what I‘ve heard) learn tons on your course.  The CF is very safety conscious these days, so the most serious stuff a Med A (or anyone) would most likely see in the Reserve world are broken bones and weather-related illnesses.


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## combat_medic

Also, there are lots of trade specific injuries:

Infantry: Strains, sprains, cuts, blisters and burns

Artillery: Finger Injuries, back strain, and hearing problems

Armoured: Inhallation injuries, crush injuries, burns too

Engineers: Lots of hand and finger injuries (moe detail work), also dealing with explosives makes for some interesting injuries.


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## revans

Frederik,

There‘s a lot of changes happening in health services right now, and I don‘t even know 1/10th of them.  If you‘re not really interested in being a medic then I wouldn‘t join, I‘d pick a different trade.  I looks like more training is coming down the pipe for reservists in the form of a civilian EMR (emergency medical responder) certification.  This is basically the entry level course into civilian EMS.  Combat medic is right, basically if you join as a Med A now, you pretty much have to go to a Medical Company.  Typically training involves setting up and operating field medical facilities, however all reserve Med A‘s take the same training courses (QL3 etc) regardless of unit.  If there‘s more experienced medics out there who have more information on what changes are happening in CFMG for both reg and reserve, I‘d love to find out more.


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## Brad Sallows

If you have no civilian qualification, you will be trained EMR.  The Med A trade will become Med Tech (with a new MOC which escapes me).

Unofficially, but from a source I trust, the most a reserve Med Tech EMR may hope for in terms of an augmentation deployment in future will be to drive ambulance (with driver qual) - but even that has not been decided, and right now there is nothing.

Qualified paramedics may expect to receive higher military qualifications by equivalency, and be more employable.

Annual recertification in essential medical skills is now required.  The program amounts to - rough guess - 7-10 days of training, review, and assessment.  It includes maintaining currency in first aid, CPR, and BTLS.  Without the annual recertification, a reserve Med Tech EMR will be restricted to first aid - in effect, unemployable in any "medical" capacity and no more useful than any soldier with a first aid certificate.  The program will be administered by the Med Coys for all Med As (ie. including the ones attached out to other units).  It will require a high degree of commitment, particularly from Med As in remote units.


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## revans

Brad Sallows,

Thanks for the above info.  Do you have any info on the career path for reserve Med Tech‘s? (i.e. will there be a QL 5 course, will QL 4 stay the same etc.)  Also, I have a civilian PCP license so do you have any idea on what kind of equivalency I might be able to attain?


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## combat_medic

There is no QL5 in the reserves. The QL3 will be the EMR certification with additional information (like casualty evactuation in a nuclear, biological or chemical environment): how do you use a BVM on someone in a toxic environment?

If you‘re a PCP already, then you‘re qualified as a reg force QL3 medic (minus some clinical stuff). You will have a way easier time getting employed if you want to go overseas, or get taskings with the reg force.


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## FredDaHead

Just for personal reference, what is a PCP license?


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## combat_medic

PCP=Primary Care Paramedic; kind of equivalent to EMT in other provinces.

In BC and Ontario, there are 3 forms of emergency responders:

1st: Primary Care Paramedics
2nd: Acute (or is it Advanced?) care Paramedics
3rd: Critical Care Paramedics

Apparently, the remainder of the country is supposed to be adopting this standard... eventually, and the PCP program run by the Justice Institute of BC is being taught to all QL3 reg force Med As.


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## revans

Just to add to Combat Medic‘s post:

The paramedic association of Canada has mandated 4 levels of recognized training across the country. Below is a quick summary.

EMR:  approx 120 hour course which covers all the basics such as CPR, AED, spinal management splinting, oxygen etc.  Almost identical to the U.S. EMT-B qualification. 
PCP: The mandated minimum level of training to work on ambulance in several provinces.  Covers more in depth patient assessment (blood glucometry, pulse oximetry etc) as well as basic medication administrion.  Most PCP‘s can give a Symptom Relief package of basic drug such as Ventolin, Epinephrine, Nitroglycerin etc.
ACP:  Advanced Care Paramedic- what we know as Advanced Life Support.  Includes invasive procedures such as intubation, IV‘s, additional drug administration, crichothyroidotomy, ECG interpretation etc.
CCP:  Additional ALS skills focusing mainly on critical care air and ground transport.  In most civilian agencies CCP‘s don‘t do many street calls mostly critical interhospital transfers.
My personal opinion is that the EMR course is very useful.  If additional training was provided in military specific skills, I see no reason why reserve Med Techs could not be considered properly trained medics.


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## Armymedic

I‘m not 100% sure in the background civilian equivalency details, but as for details how it does work for in the Army for what Med Techs do, I‘ll do my best to fill you in...I spent the last 4 yrs at cbt arms unit medical stations and now at 2 Fd Amd as a Med det commander. Having worked with all levels of civilian qualified reserve medics, they are still only allowed to do what thier equivilent req force trade qual (ie. QL3/QL5)counterparts are allowed because of legal consideration. As a supervisior, we take each instince case by case. But basically you get to do what you you‘ve been tested on....AS for the new MOC its 737, and OR techs 713 and PMed techs 733 are subspecialties, also Physicians Asst are now 732. Any ? don‘t hesitate to ask.


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## revans

Armymedic,

Thanks for your reply.  Would you be able to give a quick outline of the scope of practice for reg force QL 3/QL5 Med Techs?


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## Armymedic

medic24,
As for scope of practice, Its easier to explain if I break it down:
Trauma/emergency medicine: as taught and tested thru J.I. or advance BTLS including chest decomp and IV‘s upto intubation, which is not tested now until PA Level (use to be 6A)
Clinical: screening and treatments as taught, Rx privliges: QL3 none
QL5/6 OTC‘s in formulary only narc in extreme circumstance
PA‘s all medication in formulary narcotic in lieu of MO. 
Hope this answers your question?
Later


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## Oakley

Ok, forgive my newbie questions, I am extremely new to the military field. 

Here goes, I have:

- 2 and a half years university in the sciences
- 3 of of 4 semesters completed in a paramedic program at a college. (Honours)
- 100+ hours of clinical experience including IV initiation, etc...
- 300+ hours of road experience attending calls with Toronto EMS (student).
- All the course outlines of the courses which I have completed for reference.

Does any of this offer me any advantages for being accpeted into the Canadian Army? Would they give me preference into going into the Med Tech 737 program? Or does it not really matter?

From my brief reading, if I were to apply and get in, do I imediately follow this path? 10-weeks BMQ, 16-weeks CFMSS, then 13-weeks in BC? Does this happen bangbangbang or is there a delay between courses? Then where would that put me?

Heh, hopefully this makes some sense...Basically wondering if my prior experience carries significant weight. Just looking at options right now for my future...


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## combat_medic

OK, this should clear it up a bit...

You need to basic training. Period. The only way to get out of it is if you‘ve done it already.

As for being a medic in the reg force, if you‘re already a certified PCP, then you can skip PART of the QL3. You still need to do the clinical/field phase. You‘ll also need to learn to scope of practice for a medic in the CF.

The QL5 is lots of anatomy, and LOTS of clinical knowledge. I doubt you‘ll be able to skip that.

As for the courses, with the backlog right now, there‘s really long delays between Basic and QL3, so you may be waiting around for 6 months between them. As for ther QL5, don‘t count on getting that until the end of your first contract; there‘s a huge waiting list, plus they have to do conversion courses for all the QL5 med As in the system already, so it may be even longer.


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## revans

Armymedic,

Thanks for the above info, that answers my questions.  Just to clarify on your last, BTLS-A is not taught until PA?  i.e. only PA‘s have skills such as chest decompression, intubation, etc.? Thanks


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## Oakley

combat_medic, thanks for making things a little clearer. I think talking to a recuiter would completely clear things up for options what I would have.

From what I can tell alot of this is dependant on when and where you did your EMR/Paramedic training. As there are undoubtably significant differences across the country . It seems to me that from my limited research, Ontario (BC as well?) has the highest pre-employment education requirements. While I do not have my A-EMCA (employment qualification), this is in someway do to the fact that the paramedic program was recently changed (3rd year of change) in Ontario from a 1-year to a 2-year full-time program. Essentially the second year (well over 50% of the ciriculum) is ALS training. And while similar, circulum varies between college‘s and in some case (especially with clinical experience) between students. We have essentially completed any/all paramedic training that was needed for the EMCA in the past. This probably means little, but still... 

I assume this would come down to individual circumstances, something that a recuiter would only know.

And medic24 just a question on your comment..."If additional training was provided in military specific skills, I see no reason why reserve Med Techs could not be considered properly trained medics". I was kind of interested in this, a 120-hour EMR course plus the 13-weeks in BC would equate to a well-trained road medic? Just wondering because it seems to me like the EMR skill set is equivilent to pretty close to what you‘d see your (in my experience) in your newer fire-fighters. Just curious because as far as I‘m aware of there are no EMR‘s in Ontario.

Alot of this is just me thinking out loud, but I would appreciate any feedback.


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## mikeninercharlie

Check the recruiting web site, the Med Tech page was updated over the weekend. It should provide you with some insight before you walk up to the counter at CFRC. You always have the option of requesting that a Prior Learing Assesment(PLA) be done by the CF Medical Service School in order to determine your equivalencies. A couple of things everyone should be aware of (1) Paramedic Association of Canada PCP National Competency Profiles were developed with considerable input from members of the CFMS (2) the CFMS is a charter member of the PAC, we‘ve be affiliated with them since prior to the Gulf War...  

 http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/html/careers/career_profiles/medi_assi.html 

For those interested in the CF Physician Assistant program check out www.caopa.ca.


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## Armymedic

medic24,
We teach ABTLS to QL 3& 5 med techs, which in prehospital trauma. PA‘s lean more to inhospital type care and general use ATLS skills in relation to trauma...

Oakley, 
reading your qualifications, a career in the military as a Med Tech, atleast in the reg force may be somewhat of a disapointment to you unless you are unable to get work on the street. Most civ-qual medics find thier skills underutilised by the type of work we do in the military. And they still make you do ALL the training. The real reason the military is pushing for civilian equal is to boost the trades up to spec levels of pay and to have equivialency and accredidations for us and our clinics so to make it easier for us to have a broader range of training oppurtunities which we do not have now. For instance, I have not done any clinical work since end Aug, because of courses and field training. And as for CAoPA; well that kinds what their idea is to, as well as having some sort of creditation so 20+ yrs of military medical service isn‘t wasted upon thier release. But thats all good for all of us.

The best answer I can give you is that everyone is diffrent, and in general it takes a couple of yrs to really get to do what we like to do once we arrive. The first thing I tell my new QL 3 arrivals is if they wanted to have the "glory" of the lights and sirens, then they should have got a job working in Ambs on civy street. 

Hope this all helps.....   

oh yes, and we don‘t get to play with these....  :fifty:


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## RD

Ok. I just want a simple and short answer.  If I wanted to become a medical assistant in the regular forces how long do you think it would take to become a combat medic?


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## Armymedic

Sorry, no short answer.
If your posted to a Brigade (Fd Amb) after your initial training, once you are qualified ql 5 (after 3 yrs) then you‘ll get tasked (not posted) to a cbt arms UMS. If you are fit, smart and lucky you might get the arm that you want. That is, as dictated by the Fd Amb RSM (here in Petawawa, anyway).
That help you?


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## RD

Yeah, it helped.  Thanks


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## themaskeduser

speaking of which, when medics need to use any forms of weaponry
what do they use?

last time i recalled medics only need weapons for self defense
correct me if i'm wrong


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## cpl forrester

i have seen medics with side arms but that is classed as a active medic most under the red cross r unarmed as to not make them a direct target there is debate at this time in many armed forces that the role of medics will change for the wars that lay ahead that medics should all be active medics(with fire arms ,close support) as thy are nowa days always the first target because they r the only people with the balls to sit up when everyone else has there arse in the grass..............but do medics really want to be armed as there calling may not mean that they want to kill but to save live that is for them to decide!..?


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## MedCorps

The Canadian Forces Medical Group Headquarters actually has direction on this <smile>.  It goes a little 
something like this.  

All medical pers have the right and duty to protect their casualty and themselves from attack.  They follow the same Rules of Engagement as everyone else, except they cannot take offensive action under the tenents of the Geneva Convention (Non-Combatant Status).  

Thus they are allowed to take defensive measures.  "Defensive measures" is a little bit of a blurry term.  One could use a Carl Gustav in a defensive role against armour, or artillery as final protective fire.  For small arms the medical branch does not see things quite the way I do (oh well) and has limited small arms in the defensive role to the following: 

1 - Service Pistol (BHP)
2 - C7 / C8 
3 - C9 (Although we never really shoot, exercise or train with them) (someone correct me, I would honestly love to hear that some medical unit is running the C9 Shoot to Live program... ah, only if I was the Trg O).  

They have also allowed the M18A1 Directional Fire Device (read: Claymore) to be taught (read: sighting) on the Officer Field Course as a command detonated area defensive tool.  Again we do not train on it and you will not see it on exercise.  Medical Services Officers who go on advanced training (Army Tactical Operations Course, and Army Operations Course) are also exempted, and allowed to plan for all weapons systems in use by the CF.  

CFMGHQ has also come out with an exemption to the above, in that all weapons covered by the individual battle task standard (C6 GPMG, M2/M3 Carl Gustav, M72 (NM72E5), C13 grenade, M203) will be taught, but only the unload drill.  This is to allow a Medical person whom comes upon a casualty with a weapons to make it safe, and thus treat the casualty.  

Until defensive is clearly understood by the powers that be, the best we can do is train  our medical pers to be highly skilled on the C7 and Pistol.   

Hope that helps, 

Cheers, 

MC


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## Infanteer

Since most of our likely opponents are probably not even aware of the Geneva Convention, let alone be signatories to it, should we perhaps be a little more liberal in training our medical branch to be quite capable of fighting in a low to mid intensity conflict.  An example may be that Med A's with light infantry units would be responsible first and foremost with casualty care and evac, but would also be quite competent at fighting in the field when required.


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## MedCorps

Ah... because that would make too much sence.   Too bad you do not work at CFMGHQ.  

The big head in Ottawa (as an organization, not one person) really feels that the Red Cross is bullet proof, bomb proof and even fire proof (but only one weekends).  In the world on nod ambulances are not ambushed, UMSs have a force field and the BMS is just a marking on the enemy forces map that they choose to ignore.   

Oh, well... maybe someday people that matter will figure it out.   

Until then (if anyone is listening), train hard on the pistol and C7 and fight easy next war.  Returning fire is the best form first aid when being shot at.  I know... it is never easy to come up with range time, SAT time and prying ammo out of the HQ allocation table is like delivering a baby in the back of an HLVW on a bumpy road, but keep at it.  SAT is low to no cost, good small arms coaching is free.  If you cannot get the funding / position / convincing the giant head it is a good idea to send Med Techs on the SAC Course then import (or better trade) the expertise from the Combat Arms. 

Cheers, 

MC


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## Infanteer

> The big head in Ottawa (as an organization, not one person) really feels that the Red Cross is bullet proof, bomb proof and even fire proof (but only one weekends).  In the world on nod ambulances are not ambushed, UMSs have a force field and the BMS is just a marking on the enemy forces map that they choose to ignore.



The Brit Medic (and Infantryman trained as a Combat Medic) who gave us military first aid training on course (far superior to anything I got from our military) said that at company level and below they refused to wear the red cross on their arm as those things just made them bigger targets....


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## themaskeduser

speaking of those armbands
do meds wear the red cross armbands at all times eg; part of dress or they only wear those when they're in the field?


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## combat_medic

Infanteer: I feel the same way about the arm bands. One ex I was employed as enemy force with fighting patrols and OPs going up against us. We were doing some counter-patrolling and were getting bumped every now and then, so the LAST thing I needed was to make myself MORE conspicuous by adding a red brassard to the mix (HERE I AM, SHOOT ME, SHOOT ME!!!). When employed in a medical, non-tactical capacity such as a range medic, it makes to have the red cross out, but I think that many people do think that it is some bomb-proof, bullet-proof invisible shield. While an enemy MAY not shoot at someone wearing the red cross, if a medic accompanying a patrol or an advance gives away their position because of the shiny red target, it doesn't make their buddies any less dead.

While indentifying medical services in certain positions is important, it shouldn't replace common sense. If tactics dictate that a red cross would pose a danger, then it shouldn't be used. If an enemy is known to have not signed or obey the Geneva Convention, then why make the visibility of certain troops more prominent?

In addition, while the theory of medical services states that they will only fire personal weapons, and only in a defensive role, medics still end up as candidates on courses and instructors. I've seen medic NCOs show up on a course expected to instruct machine guns and other platoon support weapons when they themselves have never handled them beyond a simple "unload" lesson, and have never fired the weapons in their lives. Unless the new restructuring of the medical services intends to run its own basic and leadership courses, they should operate at the same MLOC (ELOC?) standard as the remainder of the CF, and that includes full TOETs on all support weapons, fieldcraft and basic infantry skills/tactics refreshed on a yearly basis.


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## vr

The first point of the last post is a moot point.  There is no justification for a medic to take part in enemy force on exercise.  This illustrates why restructure of the medical services is necessary.  Medics in outlaying units had very little idea about proper medical doctrine.  During regular unit training or exercises there was nothing for them to do. thus they became supply drivers or the Adm Coy "boy".  In many cases because nobody knew any better they were allowed to "tag along" on the fun stuff like patrols, enemy forces, and OP's all the while professing to all that they were medics.  Soon enough both they and their superiors believed that this was how medics operated.  As these individuals rose and percolated through the Reserves they took this perverted worldview with them leading to many headaches when medical units tried to work according to doctrine.

A small patrol/OP doesn't need a trained medic.  Harkening back to a thread on the LFRR board there is nothing a medic can do on patrol that a First Aid trained soldier can't.  You're lucky to have 2 medics per coy/sqn/bty so you don't waste them on stuff like that.

The decision to display crosses is made by the formation commander on the advice of the Fld Amb CO.  A large part of the passive defence of medical units is effective cam & concealment when mobile or stationary.  Red crosses do not prevent use of march or track discipline either.  Decisions regarding conventions like the Geneva convention are NOT made by individual soldiers, see Iraq.  If you are in a situation where the enemy can shoot at the reds of your medic's crosses then you've got bigger problems than that.

In an ideal world we would all be trained riflemen first and tradesmen second like the USMC.  The Marines however don't have medics and rely on seconded Navy corpsmen for their 1st/2nd line support.  We couldn't afford to do it even if we wanted to.  Imagine having to run a proper SQ for every member of the Reserves:  it can take up to 2 years for some to get it now.  Medics need to be proficient in their personal weapons to carry out their primary duty which is caring for the wounded.  We used to do all the MLOC drills on the support weapons and it wasted much time (which is money) and effort.  We were lucky to see some cbt arms unit's broken weapons once a year.  It makes sense for a medic to only have to make a wpn safe in order to treat a casualty.


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## Fraser.g

Bravo Usul!

I could not have said it better.

It is nice on Ex to send a medic out with a patrol as experience only. By seeing the conditions our brothers in arms work under makes us better able to treat them. However this should not be confused with doctrine.
A infantry coy is lucky to have a medic in our real world and no CSM would squander that resource by sending them out on patrol.

GF


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## starlight_745

Good post Usul.   Just a note on Brassards, on most larger scale exercise scenarios I have been involved with, the higher hq has almost always had the policy of no display of the red cross forward of the BMS.   This seems logical to me and if your BMS is under contact you are in deep do do anyways, you're gonna need more than a couple c-6's and c-9's.   I think we dearly need a program similar to the US Army combat lifesaver which can bridge the gap between self/buddy aid and the company medical technicians.   The new combat casualty care course looks good but it doesn't see to be offered on a continuous basis, probably due to the chronic lack of instructors plaguing the army right now.


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## MedCorps

The Tactical Combat Casualty Care Course is the way ahead.   CFMG seems to be more supportive of it (and / or no one cares and we are just offering it anyways).     You will see more and more of this course in the future.   It also has solid support from a few LCol level MOs.      

A TCCC was run before Roto 0 OP ATHENA (complete with issue of leg bags) and was very well recieved by the warfighters.   It has also been run a few other times in Ontario (both for Med Techs and non Med Techs).   In talks with the TrgO of 2 Fd Amb there have been quite a number of request from the combat arms to run this training pre- OP ATHENA Roto 3/4.   Eventually solid guidance will come out with the content of the course standardizing it, and I expect that the soldier leg bag, and the one handed tourinquet (which was again issued to Roto 0 OP ATHENA) will become a CMED kit listed item.   I have also taught the course for the Brits (RE-EOD, RMP and Army Air Regt) and they seems to be quite smitten with it.   

If you reckon that the majority of "savable" combat deaths being:   
   - External compressable hemorhage - 60% 
   - Tension Pneumothorax - 21% 
   - Airway Obstruction - 9%     

it only makes sence to train the warfighter.   If you can get hands on at minute zero of the injury and stop bleeding, decompress chest, open airway you are doing a lot for the casualty.   The Medic generally is not around at minute zero or there are just too many casualties (remembering that military trauma happens is a multi-player sport).   If I could invest money in trauma medicine for the CF it would be in TCCC and good (vice crappy) First Aid Training for the population.   The better shape they bring them to us (or have them in location in)   the easier as medical folk our job is <smile>.   

If you care below is a list of the supplies in the leg bag kits issued for OP ATHENA Roto 0: 

CPR Mask x 1 
NPA x 1 set 
Small KY Jelly for NPA x 6 pk 
OPA x 2 
Bulb suction x 1 
Asherman chest seals x 2 
Alcohol Swabs x 4 
14 ga angiocatheters x 2 
Tourniquets x 2 
Field dressing x 2 
Triangular bandages x 2 
OpSite x 2 
EMT Sissors x 2 
Latex Gloves x 2 pr 
Roll of tape x 1 
Skin marker x 1 

User trials on the leg bag were being conducted in theatre by DRDC - Toronto (DCIEM).     Anyone seen any results?   

Cheers 

MC


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## combat_medic

So if it is an inefficient use of time and resources to train a medic in anything other than basic individual weapons, then should all medical NCOs be removed from teaching any courses beyond BMQ? Should a MCpl or Sgt in a Med Coy who has never handled a C6 other than a single unload drill a few years past be teaching recruits or leadership candidates the TOETs and theories of machine gun fire on an SQ/PLQ course? While completing the necessary medical training is important, do medics at some point cease to be soldiers? The USMC has, in my opinion, an excellent policy in that no matter what trade you are, first and foremost you are a soldier. You can't simply disregard all MLOC training (which, if done regularly, should only take a training night or two and a weekend ex) because you're in a medical trade. How on earth can you expect a medic Cpl on a leadership course to lead a section attack, a recce patrol, and an occupation of a defensive position if they don't even know how to handle the weapons, or apply the tactics involved? 

On my leadership course, while all candidates were "supposed" to have all such skills squared away before they were even nominated for leadeship training, many non-combat arms troops were so clueless that they weren't even aware of how many men were in a section, and couldn't even identify the difference between a C9 and a C6. This was a complete drain of time and resources for the staff and other candidates to bring them up to speed on BASIC soldiering skills because their home units didn't think it was a priority for them to know it. No matter if you're a superstar in your trade, it doesn't matter a lick if you can't be a soldier. If you can't lift a rucksack or know not to stand behind a Carl G when it's firing, then all the CSS trade skills in the world will be meaningless.

If the new, restructured medical services want to run their own courses, similar to the Comms branch in which soldiering skills are de-emphasized in favour of trade-specific skills, then that's their decision to make, but if medics are continuing to take and instruct on currently existing army courses, then their soldiering skills have to be as up to date as the remainder of the CF. To do otherwise just creates a bigger shortfall during summer courses, and it wouldn't surprise me if the staff sent such candidates and leaders home until they get their basic skills to an acceptable level.


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## Donut

Combat_Medic, firstly, I seriously doubt the USMC policy states that all members are "soldiers" first, I strongly suspect that they are "Marines" first, tradesmen second.   Call a marine a soldier and see how he reacts.

Secondly, we need to look to the skills required on deployment, and identify the time-lines necessary to make a medic deployable.   If we can teach and/or refresh "army" skills faster and cheaper then "medic" skills, the obvious answer is that, in peacetime, we teach medical skills and bridge with the "army" skills as required;   If the opposite is true, we do the reverse:   teach "army" and bridge to medical skills.   

It may be most beneficial to have both programs running concurrently, teaching FEBA-type "combat" medics the medical skills they need pre-deployment, and teach the high-end medical specialists "REMF" medics the "army" skills they'll need prn.

The future of armed conflict is theorized to be both the "three-block war" and a come as you are conflict; the latter precludes a lot of build-up/work-up, and obviates the reserve force to a large degree; the former calls for a cross section of skills with different focus in different phases.

If we take as a starting point a civilian paramedic, we can, according to the overall tng plan, turn him into a soldier with BMQ/SQ and a military medical orientation, about 10 weeks in total.   Take that same person, but without being a paramedic, and it's 10 weeks to being a soldier, 13 weeks to being a paramedic (not including pre-study, a&p, etc), and 16 more weeks to be clinically trained.     The delta, from paramedic to soldier, is about 10 weeks, from civi to paramedic to army medic is 39 weeks plus some actual clinical exposure and patient care experience.

The tactical combat casualty care course is good, will save lives, and has undoubted benefit, but it is not a replacement for a trained prehospital professional; it is the actions that professional takes under austere and dangerous conditions to save lives.   It is a standard of care appropriate for a hostile environment.

As far as medics teaching wpns etc, the philosophy is that if you can teach, you can teach.   Once you know a skill, you can teach it.   You don't need to be an Infantry Sgt to teach MG theory, you just need to know it.  IST is there for a reason.   If you've got 3 infantry MCpls and 3 CSS MCpls, guess who should be teaching the class?

 In response to your comment about leading section attacks etc on PLQ, the point of PLQ is to test you leadership, not your infantry skills. Infantry skills are the great equalizer when you're not teaching ISCC; everyone needs to be familiar with them, not SME's.   We all have stories about the tactically dubious maneuver that results in a PLQ PO pass, BECAUSE THE CANDIDATE DEMONSTRATED A KNOWLEDGE OF THE PRINCIPLES OF LEADERSHIP, APPLIED THEM, AND LED HIS TROOPS.   

The gunner given the small party task of evac'ing wounded from the minefield didn't prod properly, didn't prove the ground, didn't immobilize the blast-injured patient, but he lead his section using sound planning and leadership and got the patient out with the resources available.   Would I want him as the med pl QRF IC? no!   Would he want me laying his guns?   NO!   did they each demonstrate and apply the principles of leadership in a military setting? Yes.

We turn kids into soldiers without a problem, we just can't seem to turn them into both soldiers and health care professionals at the same time.

D Fraser


----------



## combat_medic

So why is it that "medic" and "soldier" are mutually exclusive terms?


----------



## Donut

I agree they shouldn't be, but with current budget and tng levels, they are.  

Marine and soldier, however, are.

 ;D

Perhaps we need the CFH's back?


----------



## combat_medic

I'll admit, my bad for the Marine/Soldier thing. Heck, I've referred to naval friends as "soldiers" without realizing the implication, and it makes them cranky. 

Oh, and what is a CFH?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Calling us troopies, troops etc makes us cranky too


----------



## starlight_745

Further to combat medics post above, I don't think it is inefficent to train medics on soldier skills however the limited time and money available for training makes it extremely difficult.  I agree with paramedtech that soldier skills can likely be refreshed faster for deployment than medical skills.  In 4-6 weeks it should be easy enough to cover all MLOC weapons famil shoots, PWT, NBC, etc.  If people have not cultivated some medical experience and real patient care you will be hard pressed to make that up in a few weeks.  As a junior NCO I also have concerns for my troops abilities. Medics are one of the few trades that do their real job on a regular basis.  Virtually all of my troops are employed at one point or another during the year on MIR taskings, med supports etc that require their medical skills to be up to date.  In short I try to focus my energy on the short term to help get my troops able to provide the best patient care they can.  They are not likely to be leading a section attack against a Taliban compound on the short term.  If we were deploying my priorities might change, but then again we'd all be doing MLOC and predeployment training.  There is just not enough time or money to do anything different on a daily basis.
The flip side of this example is the infantry unit that never practices first aid but is crack at weapons handling.  Having been with the infantry for several years I can tell you for a fact that first aid is virtually never practiced, and their is certainly very little if any time devoted to casevac training.  Again in the ideal world every member would do the Combat casualty care course and real time scenarios with full moulage would be incorporated into training.  Again, not likely to happen unless its for a deployment.


----------



## combat_medic

So what about courses? If medics start to get sent home from leadership training because they haven't done MLOC in 5 years, would that be incentive enough to start doing refreshers yearly?


----------



## Fraser.g

Last time I checked we do have to do MLOC yearly.


----------



## combat_medic

But, as was mentioned earlier, the only MLOC coveredat medical units is C7 and a basic unload of some of the support weapons. It's supposed to be C7, C9, C6 M72, Carl G and grenade TOETs, fieldcraft, NBCD and first aid. You also have to pass your yearly PWT. Can you honestly tell me of a medical unit that does that every year? Of the medics on my PLQ from 3 different Med Coys, none had done a full MLOC since they joined.


----------



## Fraser.g

Here lies the problem.

1. The MINIMUM standard for the medical corps is the unload for the C-9 and C-6. That is not to say that the rest can not be taught.
It is extremely hard from an instructional POV to teach the unload before the load. As someone who has had their PLQ I am sure you would agree. 
In my unit we get the infantry to teach us the weapons. We teach them the first aid in return. It just makes sence. 

2. The M-72 is out of the system and is not being taught any more.

3. Name one medic RTUd from a PLQ because they do not know the weapons drills before they got there. I do not know of a single case. I also do not know of a single case of an infanteer being RTUd because they do not know the proper memo format or how to properly fill out a CF 52.

The idea of the course is to teach leadership and teaching skills as mentioned by ParaMedTec earlier not weapons handling or marksmanship.

G. Fraser


----------



## combat_medic

I don't know of a medic who was RTUed from course, but I know many who should have been. The joining instructions for the course were very clear on the prerequisites and stated that anyone showing up without them would be sent home. While that particular threat was never carried through with those failing to comply, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that it happen. Those without the prerequisites took up a HUGE amount of time of the instrctors and candidates who had to make up for their units' lack of planning. Many important lectures and lessons had to be rushed and study time cut short for everyone else simply because some units didn't think that basic soldiering skills were necessary. We all had to suffer for their ignorance and lack of foresight. 

As far as MLOC having some different qualification for medics only, this is the first I've heard of it. If that IS the case, then the entire MLOC idea is pointless. Either you qualify everyone to the same standard, or forget the whole program. A medic who's instructing a course or taking advanced/leadership training can't simply sit out of the weapons lectures or anything that doesn't pertain to being a non-combattant. As long as the medics are playing in the same sandbox as the rest of the army, they must be held to the same standards in terms of basic soldiering skills. If the CFMS in it's infinite wisdom wants to run medical leadership courses and forego the PLQ concept then they can leave out everything that they feel is unnecessary (which is pretty likely, considering the Comms have this kind of system). Until that time, if medics continue occupy positions on courses like the PLQ (land) and instruct on BMQ/SQ/PLQ courses, then ALL soldiering skills must be reviewed. A single week of IST is not enough to teach all weapons TOETs, infantry tactics and fieldcraft to a bunch of NCOs who should know it already. It is intented for standardization of instruction, and certainly not to teach someone how to do a section attack because they haven't seen one in a decade. 

If the medical services want to operate entirely seperately from the army, that's their perrogative, but as long as they're taking army courses, they need to be trained as soldiers, and MLOC (the same MLOC that everyone else in the CF is required to complete) is the bare minimum of being a soldier. 

Oh, and if the M72 is being phased out, this is the first I've ever heard of it. In my unit, we're still using it and recently fired off a few hundred sub-cal rounds in the States. If they're removing it, they have yet to replace it with anything as the M203 certainly can't fill the position of a light anti-armour weapon.


----------



## Fraser.g

No one has said that basic soldiering skills are not important. What has been said is that given the time and fiscal restraints that we are all working under it is more valuable in the long term to place a bigger emphasis on the medical side of the house.

I agree with you that no one should be sent on course with out proper preparation and base knowledge. I personally will not nominate a person for any course if they do not show at least a basic knowledge of field skills, basic weapons handling, MCSP and physical fitness.

Are we all going to know how to use a sustained fire kit? No. 
Are we going to be comperable to the infantry when it comes to patrolling? No. 
Should we be competent in living under field conditions? Absolutely.
Should we know how our own personal weapon works? Absolutely.

In my unit we get infanteers to run the weapons refreshers each year, we in turn teach and maintain their first aid qualifications each year. 

Am I apologising for the ill preparedness of some units medics when it comes to field craft, No. What I am saying is that if pers are being sent on a course that they are not prepared for then the unit has to know in the form of an after action report. The school also has to have some fortitude and RTU any member who has not been prepared for the course.

This is not exclusively a CFMG problem. On my JLC/JNCO we had a rad tec who did not even know how to put his webbing togeather and then used his mag pouches to hold his tools. 



			
				combat_medic said:
			
		

> As far as MLOC having some different qualification for medics only, this is the first I've heard of it.



I would guess that you are a bit out of the loop because you do not parade with the local field ambulance but instead parade down the street with the Sea Forth. I am not bashing the Highland Infantry or your regiment in any way however the big heads in Ottawa have decided that ALL medics in the Land Force will belong to a Field Ambulance. This includes those with the Regular Force UMS and BMS all the way down to the reservists. If you do not maintain your MCSP and exercise with 12 FD Amb next training year this entire discussion will be moot as you will probably be asked to join the Field Amb, re-muster or release. The only way for a medic to parade with a non-CFMG unit is because of geographical limitations. Then they are a member of the regional Field Ambulance but the administration is carried out by the host unit. The Field Ambulance then gives the host unit around 37.5 man days per medic for pay that they are to commit to medical training, exercising with the field ambulance and maintaining their MCSP.


----------



## Cougar

combat_medic said:
			
		

> There is no QL5 in the reserves. The QL3 will be the EMR certification with additional information (like casualty evactuation in a nuclear, biological or chemical environment): how do you use a BVM on someone in a toxic environment?
> 
> If you're a PCP already, then you're qualified as a reg force QL3 medic (minus some clinical stuff). You will have a way easier time getting employed if you want to go overseas, or get taskings with the reg force.



so do reserve Medical assistant get the PcP liscense as well or is our training totally different?


----------



## Armymedic

Boys, things you miss when your away on leave without an internet connection....

Red cross is worn...always on deployment overseas, and at fd amb in the fd. As sit dictates when working at UMS, but not as normal daily wear.

As a Regular force ARMY med tech, my soldiering skills cannot be any less practiced then my medical skills. A GOOD ARMY medic must have a balance of excellent medical skills, sound field skills, and an intimate knowledge of the cbt arms they support.

For MLOC, maybe we can get by with just the basics, sloughed off to the minimum standard, but when it comes to Deployment Level. You better know it or your doing it until you get it right. And thats not just load/unload, its also TOETs of each weapon, medical or not(we just don't shoot). And when your at high readiness, all training is done at DLOC.

We must think and learn outside our little medical box. 

BTW, for all you Armymedic wanna be's....(is my ego getting to big?  )

In Tactical Combat Casualty Care, what is the first step in providing care to the wounded?


----------



## NavyGrunt

What about physical fitness ArmyMedic? ;D


----------



## MJP

Winning the battle/removing the threat/danger


----------



## Armymedic

Wetgrunt, MJP,

It is essential on both points.


----------



## Armymedic

Further, this point is not correct...

From RN RPN quote "A infantry coy is lucky to have a medic in our real world and no CSM would squander that resource by sending them out on patrol."

In your world maybe.  In mine, a medic is supposed to be tasked to each infantry platoon. Thats 3 medics per coy, and yes we do go on patrols....Platoon fighting patrols, Coy ambushes, as long as its bigger then a section, we go. Back to basic battlecraft.

This point I agree with...

from ParaMedTech quote "The tactical combat casualty care course is good, will save lives, and has undoubted benefit, but it is not a replacement for a trained prehospital professional; it is the actions that professional takes under austere and dangerous conditions to save lives.  It is a standard of care appropriate for a hostile environment."

And this is why pigeonholing our training to that narrow scope (PCP only) is NOT the way to go. QL3 reg force med techs should do this course. Also they should pass the SQ type course as well prior to graduating QL 3 and arriving at thier units.

And BTW,

From Cbt medic quote
"But, as was mentioned earlier, the only MLOC covered at medical units is C7 and a basic unload of some of the support weapons. It's supposed to be C7, C9, C6,  M72, Carl G and grenade TOETs, fieldcraft, NBCD and first aid. You also have to pass your yearly PWT. Can you honestly tell me of a medical unit that does that every year?"

2 FD AMB does. Ands its TOETs on all weapons, plus BFT, Nav ex, Mine Awareness and coming in the future AFV recognition. And we do it every yr.


----------



## Fraser.g

When we were discussing the med support we were specifically referring to the reserve on Ex. They request med support as they do not have intrinsic UMS facilities within their own units. Depending on the training they may get one medic or an Amb with two. 
I know that when a unit has a larger UMS capability then by all means send medics out on platoon level events. If a medic is attached to a platoon and the platoon moves then it goes with reason that the medic goes too.
In this scenario it would be foolish to sent some of this resource out with a patrol when they can easily respond from a central identifyable location easier and more rapidly.So my point was correct as I was referring to med support for a reserve infantry unit on ex.
With the change in unit designators there was no change in manning. Most reserve Field Amb units operate at the Coy or Platoon level at best. Changing the name does not change the reality of medics on the ground unless some changes are made that have been discussed earlier in the thread.


As for the MLOC training: my unit does TOETs for all the service weapons and has SME instructors for these from the infantry. The PWT has been done every year with the exception of last year as the Brigade decreed that it was not required. We are out of that brigade system now and therefore are carrying on with training as before. Yes we field craft, nav, NBCD, Mine Awareness. We are limited in the amount of PT we can actually evaluate each year but I ensure that my platoon does the Express test and 13 K march each year. If they do not pass the above then they do not get nominated for courses or taskings.


----------



## Armymedic

RN PRN,

ref your first paragraph, ack, my bad.

We should get across that there are a bit of a diffrence between res and reg Fd Ambs and the types of training we all do. Especially IRT time, money and resources.


----------



## Fraser.g

Absolutely,

Once we realize that there are differences then we can get going on integration and proper utilization of both res and reg med support. I suspect that there will be more in common then not but, and this is a big but, those differences will have to be addressed or acknowledged for combined training and taskings. This board is the only place I am aware of that all members regardless of rank can air their concerns and recommendations with out fear of jumping the chain or being viewed as out of turn. Now if we can only get the group at CFMG HQ to read the board we would be in great shape.

GF


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Don't kid yourself, I think a lot more higher-ups read here more than we think.


----------



## Armymedic

I know a couple who do....


----------



## combat_medic

For an infantry unit that goes to the field with Platoon strength and sends the entire platoon on a fighting patrol, raid or ambush, does it not make sense to send a medic with them? What point would there be to have the medic sitting in the background when everyone on ex is going to be on patrol? If med support is going to be kilometres away from where all the troops are, then it really invalidates the presence of med support at all, and would make more sense to simply call civilian medical authorities in case of emergency, who could drive to a casualty in the time it would take them to be carried out.


----------



## mclipper

Aaron White said:
			
		

> What about physical fitness ArmyMedic? ;D



That's a very good question.  A medic isn't much good if they are constantly the casualty themselves.  We had one medic that was attached to us for an EX and she was really fit and keen, but that doesn't seem to be the case 90% of the time.  We wanted to get her permanently attached to us....but....she went Reg F.  :'(


----------



## Armymedic

mclipper,
fitness is the foundation of a good soldier regardless of the trade.


----------



## mclipper

You are right!  No doubt about that!  Unfortunately, maybe just our bad luck, we keep getting medics who go down with hypothermia, blisters, march is too fast, too long, too sunny out, moons aren't aligned right......you name it.  The biggest saying is "throw me over the fence and dial 911".


----------



## Medic937

Forgive the lateness of my reply to all of this drivel.   I just had this site pointed out to me today.   Although a lot of information is to be gained from all this posting and replying, I found a lot of comments totally insulting.   For example, the one that got to me the most... 



			
				combat_medic said:
			
		

> ......Of the medics on my PLQ from 3 different Med Coys, none had done a full MLOC since they joined.



Along with all the other comments in reference to this PLQ.   I was on it and I can't believe the amount of half-truths and lies.   3 of the 5 medics on the course, myself included, were from the same unit.   I'm pretty sure I didn't dream the MLOC I do every, sometimes twice per year.   I also know we do this training because as leadership I have to write people off as having it done.   No MLOC or MCSP = no summer taskings in the medical field.     

As for the later quotes about Medics should have been RTU'd, I know one who should have been and eventually left the course.   I didn't find and lectures rushed and the instructors often volunteered their extra time to come in at night and make sure everyone understood what was going on.   In fact when it was all said and done, we were able to thank those instructors for all their hard work. BUT,   I assume you would know that had you actually COMPLETED the course.

   Well, this soap box is a little to tall for me...too bad others aren't afraid of heights.


----------



## combat_medic

The point that was made about MLOC (as you may have noticed if you read the entire thread) is that the med coys are not expected to complete MLOC to the same standard as the rest of the army. Perhaps you may not remember watching the infantry candidates having to not only run TOETs on support weapons, but to teach them as well, aften between classes and late at night. Maybe you forgot that, or weren't paying attention, because I'm pretty sure I didn't dream that up either. In any case, if units were running complete MLOC with all infantry support weapons, this obviously would be unecessary.

By the admission of everyone here, no medical units run complete MLOC courses (including all drills on all Pl support weapons, PWTs, fieldcraft, NBCD, mine awareness, navigation, first aid etc.), and said that they don't have to. Also, on course, you stated that while you did some weapons drills on in MLOC, it was not the complete MLOC course that the infantry go through, exactly what has already been stated by various other members of Med Coys. This was the same statement I got from the other medics, and most of the Svc Bn candidates as well. Unless everyone was (and still is) lying about this, all I have been trying to do is address a systemic problem with the MLOC program, in that a great many people fail to complete the course in its entirety; which is causing problems in the combined arms training. 

As for medics being RTUd, there was no naming names, but rather a very general statement about people not completing the course pre-requisites who should not be sent on course. You may wish to re-read the previous posts a little more carefully. Would you send a troop on a course that you honestly didn't think they were prepared for? Do you think it's fair to the other candidates who did complete all the pre-requisites?

As for the petty $hit slinging and personal insults, you're welcome to sit alone on your soap box. You should also be aware that going behind someone's back to spread rumours about them to members of their unit while on exercise, and generally behaving like a junior high school child is also not the kind of decorum and professionalism that are needed in the Canadian Forces. Feel free to take it elsewhere.


----------



## Medic937

My, how self-important we are. You can take your accusations  and stuff them.    


			
				combat_medic said:
			
		

> As for the petty $hit slinging and personal insults, you're welcome to sit alone on your soap box. You should also be aware that going behind someone's back to spread rumours about them to members of their unit while on exercise, and generally behaving like a junior high school child is also not the kind of decorum and professionalism that are needed in the Canadian Forces. Feel free to take it elsewhere.



I have never and will never spread rumors about anyone.  See, that would be slander and slander is chargeable.  And how the hell could I spread rumors on exercise with your unit when I'm not even from BC? Who's accusing now, genius? Well I'm out, I have better things to do than waste my time on you.  Write whatever witty comeback you can think of, No one really cares what you say.


----------



## combat_medic

Medic937 said:
			
		

> I have never and will never spread rumors about anyone. See, that would be slander and slander is chargeable. And how the heck could I spread rumors on exercise with your unit when I'm not even from BC?



Then you weren't on Op Peregrine? The troops who told me invented your name, rank and unit out of thin air (they had a very accurate physical description of you as well, btw)?

Since you have no "time to waste", although you seem to have had time enough to be insulting, then by all means leave. And with regards to the huge axe you have to grind with me after more than a year since we even spoke; get over it. If you don't move on and let things go, you're going to give yourself an ulcer.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

Medic937 said:
			
		

> My, how self-important we are. You can take your accusations  and stuff them.
> 
> 
> I have never and will never spread rumors about anyone.  See, that would be slander and slander is chargeable.  And how the hell could I spread rumors on exercise with your unit when I'm not even from BC? Who's accusing now, genius? Well I'm out, I have better things to do than waste my time on you.  Write whatever witty comeback you can think of, No one really cares what you say.



She's actually proven her worth, to the Forces in general and to this board in particular, time and time again.  She is extremely well respected by the directing staff.  

You, however, are advised that insults and namecalling won't be permitted here as a matter of course.  If you have issues, I suggest you take them to PM, or if you are truly as brave as you say, perhaps in person.

Maybe this needs to be locked up.


----------



## Infanteer

No kidding Michael.

Medic937, welcome to our house, who the fuck are you?


----------



## Armymedic

What needs to be locked is not the thread...

but this personal vendetta.

Nothing I hate more is when two women don't get along/don't work well together because of some petty statement, precieved insult, slight action which we men would just ignore....

And I see it too much in MY TRADE to put it up with it here.


----------



## Michael Dorosh

Armymedic said:
			
		

> What needs to be locked is not the thread...
> 
> but this personal vendetta.
> 
> Nothing I hate more is when two women don't get along/don't work well together because of some petty statement, precieved insult, slight action which we men would just ignore....
> 
> And I see it too much in MY TRADE to put it up with it here.



You freaking jerk, what you're really saying is that you think I'm fat.  Aren't you.  _AREN'T YOU!!!!  _


----------



## combat_medic

Armymedic: how true. Sometimes I think that men handle such things better; have a row, throw a few punches, then shake hands and have a beer. Problem solved. I find women tend to hold grudges forever.


----------



## vr

Children...children...children....

No, medics don't do the full MLOC.  We do what we are mandated by our headquarters to do.  The last time I did the full MLOC it was 5 full training days.  Doing this and the new bigger MCSP would leave most Reserve medical units with time (& money!) for little else in the training year.  If such training is required, ie pre-deployment, then those medics needing it will make it up.

All the support waepon training is more applicable to the cbt arms as that is their trade.  We medics have our own trade requirements to maintain which includes yearly MSCP, yearly CPR-C, current SFA, BTLS, AMFR, and whatever civilian quals you maintain.  It is in itself an onerous task to organize and maintain on a Cl A schedule and budget without adding the extra "could knows".  I believe that if some individuals turned down the "combat" and turned up the "medic" parts of their careers they would find it much more harmonious.

On an aside, it never fails to amuse me how many people think that PLQ/JNCO/ISCC is the be all and end all of their and other's military careers.  Many people excel at these courses but are only fair to middling leaders mainly because they don't play well with others.  Others squeak thorough the courses and make excellant leaders because they can apply the principles they were taught and relate to people better.  Leading section attacks and teaching C-6 lectures are a means to an end not an end in itself.  As the Commandant of the RMA said,"At Sandhurst we don't teach platoon commanding we use platoon commanding to teach leadership." :dontpanic:


----------



## MedicMW

I have been in long enough to remember completing full MLOC/Warrior/DLOC (whatever you want to call it) and remember feeling a little disappointed when it changed to the scaled back model. Recently I brought this thread up to friends (infantry types) and asked their opinion. 

While I might feel a stronger affection for the soldier skills ( I do believe CSS needs to be fit and functional and psychologically well balanced; I also believe in field presence), I know that I am not ever going to be a C-6, Karl G (mis-spelled), M-72 expert. I do not require to be trained to operate weapons that would contravene the principles of the geneva convention (if it came down to it I am sure I could figure it out in a pinch). I do miss the weapons (I really like the weapons). I suppose as I get older I understand the challenges and triumphs we have as medics in maintaining the most complex weapon in the world, the human soldier, and I can be relaxed about not being as proficient as our combat arms soldiers on those weapons. After all it is their job to be competent on them, I don't expect them to be able to be EMR's (not hard, but time consuming-like the weapons)...I at least expect them to be combat first aiders.

Williams, M.


----------



## Armymedic

While I believe any medic who employed in the fd role should do full MLOC/ELOC level training, when I see a unit like 3 RCR complaining because they don't have enough ammo, range time, practice to qualify the 031's of the unit, I am forced to rethink my position...

For us, there is really no reason to be given extensive classes on the larger weapons and actually shoot them all on the range every yr. Because ammo = $, I'd rather see trg $ go to medically based training vs the big boom down range. Things we NEED to cont doing is the heavier wpns C6, Carl G, grenades famil and dry training. We NEED to shoot C7 PWT 1 to qualify(I'd prefer level 3 but...), and I like to see a 200 rd C9 shoot every yr or 2. 

With that said the wpns portion, the remainder of MLOC level training shouldn't change from yr to yr, and for some reason NBC seems to take a back seat every yr.


----------



## RatCatcher

The other reason Medical Pers need to do MLOC is the simple fact that you must make the weapn safe prior to treating the patient, decreases the risk of an "accident" happening.  In addition to this, when the shit hits the fan I want to be able to work all the weapons... i think you could allow the "defend your patient" to become "defend your future patients if you don't grab the section support weapon that has just lost it's gunner and loader"


----------



## Fraser.g

RatCatcher said:
			
		

> The other reason Medical Pers need to do MLOC is the simple fact that you must make the weapon safe prior to treating the patient, decreases the risk of an "accident" happening. In addition to this, when the crap hits the fan I want to be able to work all the weapons... i think you could allow the "defend your patient" to become "defend your future patients if you don't grab the section support weapon that has just lost it's gunner and loader"



Absolutely true and why all weapons are taught. In my unit the entire MLOC is gone through. There is no differentiation for medical. In some units they are only taught the unload for just this reason. Does not make sense to me but there you are.



			
				RatCatcher said:
			
		

> The other reason Medical Pers need to do MLOC is the simple fact that you must make the weapon safe prior to treating the patient, decreases the risk of an "accident" happening. In addition to this, when the crap hits the fan I want to be able to work all the weapons... i think you could allow the "defend your patient" to become "defend your future patients if you don't grab the section support weapon that has just lost it's gunner and loader"



If the medic is acting as number 2 on a C6 then who is providing care to the wounded? True, the first priority taught to every first aider and higher is to make the scene safe and in a combat zone this means that you win the fire fight but you would be better off with your C7 and letting a more experienced person act in the other role. It is a question of priority. A member of the infantry can act as the number two (or one) on a gun and in a pinch so can the trained medic. The question is can an infanteer act as the medic TCCC aside? The answer is no.

Therefore although teaching the medic to use the crew served weapons is great, do not expect them to be able to step into the role. I would tend to draw the line at TOW and 81 mm mortar.

GF


----------



## starlight_745

Any Word on any changes coming up to the Med Tech trade, in particular reserves training levels?


----------



## Armymedic

From OP Med MOC discussions, 

Once the Reg force MCSP and other training is done in the next 2 yrs, then they will tackle the reserve side.


----------



## starlight_745

Roger, thanks waiting out.


----------



## adamop

Hi all,

 I am interested in joining the army reserves, and possibly one day the Reg Force, as a Medical Technician. I currently work as a Paramedic in BC. I graduated with the PCP/IV certification from the Justice Institute of BC (the same 13 week program that Reg Force QL3's go thru). I also hold a B.A. degree in Communication.

 If I were to join the army, especially the reg force, would I need to retake the training I'd already taken? Likewise, I've heard, in the reserves, that PCP training is no longer being done and, instead, they are now training reserves members to the level of EMR instead. So how would it work if I joined the reserves with PCP cert? I've also considered joining as a DEO, since I've got a bachelor's degree, but I don't know if there are any fields that I would fit into. Any suggestions?

 What are some good reserves med units in BC?

Thanks,
Adam


----------



## Fraser.g

There are two Reserve medical units in BC

11 Fd Amb in Victoria
and 
12 Fd Amb in Vancouver.

Your best bet is to get in touch with your closest one and talk to their recruiting NCO. I have known the one for 12 Fd Amb for several years and is quite knowledgeable. He is a medic with BC amb as well so most of the questions you have, he can answer.

As for joining the reg force, you will probably have to take all your basic medic training over but I am not sure. As for the Reserve force, once you are in you can present all your credentials to the Standards O and he will assist you in filling out a prior learning assessment (PLA). This may get you some of the equivalences to your Regular force Threes. 

Good Luck

GF


----------



## medicineman

If you want to go Reg Force, explain the situation and a PLA will be done - you'll likely just have to do the clinical phase of your 3's.  Know and know of a number of people that went that route.

BTW, being a (then) 11 Med Coy (now Fd Amb) alumnus, I'd say go 11 and vice 12  >.

Good luck either way.

MM


----------



## Fraser.g

medicineman said:
			
		

> If you want to go Reg Force, explain the situation and a PLA will be done - you'll likely just have to do the clinical phase of your 3's.  Know and know of a number of people that went that route.
> 
> BTW, being a (then) 11 Med Coy (now Fd Amb) alumnus, I'd say go 11 and vice 12  >.
> 
> Good luck either way.
> 
> MM



That depends if you live on the Island or not. 

Island = 11 Fd Amb
Mainlnand= 12 Fd Amb


----------



## medicineman

RN PRN,

My sarcastic side doesn't always come out very well electronically I guess - I was slamming 12 Fd Amb  ;D.

MM


----------



## adamop

Thanks for the replies all.

Yeah I was aware of Fd Amb 11 in Victoria which is where I would be applying. I am on the other end of Vancouver Island though, over 4 hours away (400+kms). So if I were in this unit, would I bet given a gas allowance in addition to my pay to help me get there?

Also, if I did enter into the reserves could I apply directly to have my QL3 written off after completing BMQ and SQ? Or would I need to do more stuff? Also, would I be eligable to enter as semi-skilled or skilled and start off as a higher pay rate? Like Corporal or something? Is it possible to gain full Reg-Force QL3 equivelancy in the Reserves, or is it not possible since I wouldnt have the clinical portion?

Thx


----------



## Donut

Adamop,  I'm one of the reserve HS recruiters here in BC, I cover the Mainland, for 12 Fd Amb.

On top of the BMQ and SQ, you'll need to do parts of the QL3, the bits that deal with medical setups in the field, our ambs, chain of evacuation, quite a lot, really.  

You'll need to do all of the QL4, the clinical portion of the reserve med tech training.  Those two courses, PLUS your PCP license, gets you a direct QL3 equivalency with the reg force.  That's the plan, anyway; the upgrade courses are being scheduled as we speak, and more reserve medics are being loaded on the PCP with the regs, too.

If you want to PM with your contact info, I'll pass it on to the 11 Fd Amb recruiter to answer questions about their units commuting assistance policy from the north Island;  I joined from Duncan, initially, but that's not in the same league.

DF


----------



## 737?

I recently went to a RC to pickup my application... 
Now as not to repeat previous posts, I have done my best to search for answers but have not quite found all the information I require. So my apologies right off the bat, if I am repeating a thread.

I'm looking at the differences between joining regs or reserves. Can someone please give me a break down of the training time for reserves. As I understand it, full time, there is your BMQ of 11 weeks, QL3 of 65 days another 65 days (being phase 3 or PCP training) followed by another month in Borden. 

Can someone please let me know what the equivalent training is for the Reserves. I understand the current commitment is 37 days; 1-2 nights a week and 1-2 weekends a month. With BMQ either through the summer or weekends during the remainder of the year. 

Another question I have is if it's possible to be in the Reserves until Corporal status is achieved and then be transferred to the regular forces, and maintain your standing with the specified pay?

Websites? Suggestions? Assistance please?


----------



## cgyflames01

737? said:
			
		

> I recently went to a RC to pickup my application...
> Now as not to repeat previous posts, I have done my best to search for answers but have not quite found all the information I require. So my apologies right off the bat, if I am repeating a thread.
> 
> I'm looking at the differences between joining regs or reserves. Can someone please give me a break down of the training time for reserves. As I understand it, full time, there is your BMQ of 11 weeks, QL3 of 65 days another 65 days (being phase 3 or PCP training) followed by another month in Borden.
> 
> Can someone please let me know what the equivalent training is for the Reserves. I understand the current commitment is 37 days; 1-2 nights a week and 1-2 weekends a month. With BMQ either through the summer or weekends during the remainder of the year.
> 
> Another question I have is if it's possible to be in the Reserves until Corporal status is achieved and then be transferred to the regular forces, and maintain your standing with the specified pay?
> 
> Websites? Suggestions? Assistance please?


This is a touchy subject, as I understand, the reserve training takes a whole lot longer then the regular force training. With out the PCP qualification the Reg's get . I am gonna try my best to explain, but as a reg force student, I know little about the reserves. From what I understand the Reg's go for QL3- Clinical for 16 weeks then go to JIBC in Chilliwack for 4 months, then return to Borden for 2 weeks Field training. Then they go to there units.  I think the reserves go for QL3- Clinical + Field for 7 weeks. This is where I'm foggy, then return months later to do QL4, and then months after that they go back to Borden to do Enhanced Training. At this point They have the equivalent of the reg force QL3 minus the PCP Qualification from JIBC.
Another question I have is if it's possible to be in the Reserves until Corporal status is achieved and then be transferred to the regular forces, and maintain your standing with the specified pay?
best answer is maybe  
I hope this helps. Good luck


----------



## 737?

Hmm...a whole lot longer?
 Does anyone know the timeframe? 
Is this all summer training then?


----------



## herseyjh

The only people that I have seen keep their ranks are Cpls who have been in for a long while, maybe have been on tour, worked with the regular force, ect...  That sort of thing, but beyond Cpl. I don't think I have ever seen it evening out.

I guess it depends on how you look at it:  If you want to say have a civi career and serve your contry go with the reserves, otherwise I would say go full time.  I have seen lots of people treat their reserve career as a quazi full-time military careers, and spend years in the reserves before comitting to it full time.  From my point of view it might have been more productive for them to start in the regular force.


----------



## The_Falcon

Can't answer your question about reg training time vs res training time for Med tech, however there is a thread some where in the OT Sub board in the Army Admin Forum, that explains how much time you get credit for when going from res to reg.  If I remember correctly the formula is you take all the days (vice years) you have been in the reserves (example 2 years = 730 days) subtract any class b/c time from that number (using our example say you have 60 days class B so 730-60= 670) now divide whatever you get left by 4 (670/4=167.5) and add back your class b/c time (167.5+60= 227.5), ergo you will get 227.5 days credited to your IPC when going regs, which would mean you would get to pte 2 just little faster than the rest of you peers, and you might have to go through BMQ again.  This is just an example, you would need to plug in your own numbers, but basically as herseyjh said you would have to have been in for a while gone on a tour, done class b etc.


----------



## The Heathen

The reserves training is in process of a major and long overdue shakedown.  Both the R QL3 and RQL4 are longer by several weeks than when I took them.  For guys like me they've offered a bridging course.  

But simply put, RQL3 plus RQL4 = QL3 Regforce.

As for transferring over, yeah, unless you have both your 3's and 4's reserves, and significant time in with reg force bases/taskings, your not going to keep your second hook from reserves to regs.  In the reserves, Cpl has become a very gimme rank, almost garuntee after 2 yrs and the right courses.  In the regs, its 4 yrs and the right courses.   So you'd have to have 4 yrs equvalent reg force time to keep your second hook.


----------



## rogsco

Hi All,

The component transfer (CT) process has undergone some work as well. A Res F member CTing to the Reg F is rank protected based on ADM (HR-MIL) Instruction 07/05. A Cpl Res F member going Reg F would keep the Cpl rank if they are considered a skilled applicant IAW the instruction. A skilled applicant is one seeking CT into the same occupation and who has reached the Basic Occupational Qualification as defined by the occupational specification for the component from which the member is transferring and accumulated the equivalent of 36 months of FTPS. The skilled applicant may be selected for further training in order to be fully employable in the gaining component.

Full-time Paid Service (FTPS) is based on the sum of:

Class A service is factored at 25% (4 years Class A = 1 year FTPS)
Class B and Class C service are factored at 100%.

You can read the instruction here: http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/instructions/engraph/0705_admhrmil_e.asp#6

Hope that helps.


----------



## adamop

For a couple of years now I've been considering joining the army and have finally decided to just do the reserves as I can't commit to reg. The reason is I am going to be enrolling in university soon at Royal Roads (it actually used to be a military college but that is just a coincidence). So I have a few questions.

1. I want to enroll as a medtech. What is the highest qualification level one can achieve in the reserves as a med-tech? QL3?
2. I already have my PCP certificate from the JIBC. What other stuff would I need to do? BMQ, etc?
3. Can I take BMQ just on weekends... when is it offered like this? And where abouts in BC, anywhere on vancouver island?
4. How long does it normally take to move to Corporal in the reserves...?

Thx, Adam


----------



## PQLUR

So you wanna be a Reserve Med Tech, eh ??? 

Answers to your questions:
1) RQL6A is the highest trades crse for Res Med Tech;
2) You will have to complete a BMQ & SQ crse, if you are already PCP qualified you can submit your paper work from your PCP crse for what is call a "Prior Learning Assessment" and then after your RQL3 Med Tech trades trg you would have the same qualification as a Reg Force QL3 Med Tech (only because you are a trained PCP, but you would have to submit your paper work from your PCP crse for the Prior Learning Assessment);
3) Most Brigades (contact 11 Field Amb Victoria or 12 Field Amb Vancouver) across Canada run Reserve BMQ over wknds;
4) Promotion to Corporal in the reserve medical world sometimes come with in two yrs after you complete your BMQ/SQ/QL3. People usually go on their RQL4 crse as a corporal.


----------



## adamop

PQLUR you the man. But I need more information. I would like to even gather enough information so I can understand the whole system.

So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that Reserve QL3 and RegF QL3 are the same, except that RegF QL3 has the PCP? So I could get Reserve QL3 and then with my PCP prior learning I'd have QL3 reg force equivelancy.

What good with that do me in the reserves? Like I'll still be a QL3, will the army recognize that I'm more trained than a reserve QL3 without the PCP portion?

What courses does it take to reach QL3? From what I understand it is:

1. BMQ
2. SQ
3. MOC

I was also told their is some clinical portion that needs to be done. Is that part of MOC?

Ok so now that I'm past that, I need to ask about the other levels... what does RQL4 consist of? And what does RQL6A consist of? And are there any levels in between them? What are they equivelant to in the reserves? When is the PCP course supposed to come into play in the reserves? Like I know there are lots of RQL3's with only EMR. So when do they get offered PCP?

Once I gather all this info I will do a write-up on it for future reserve medtechs to contribute back to the community here because everyone is so great!

Thanks,
Ad


----------



## Donut

If you do a SEARCH of the boards, specifically the Health Services, you'll find all these questions, and more, answered.

Or, you could call the unit recruiter for 11 Fd Amb at 250-363-8360.

DF


----------



## wamoine

Good day,

I saw a message recently telling reserve med techs (?) that their files were to be evaluated to see if they were to remain med techs or be "retrofitted" to be med-A's. Can anyone tell me more about this? I'm an HCA with a navy reserve unit (long story) and I'm outside the CFHS circle.

Thanks,


----------



## medaid

wamoine said:
			
		

> I'm an HCA with a navy reserve unit.



Ho ho! I didn't know such a thing was even possible!  ;D

I don't but that would be a headache all over again. Most of us that were sworn in at a certain period from Jun 03 on wards were classifieds as R737 MedTechs, and those before us were R711 Med As. Although everyone was eventually converted it was a headache.

Now, if this was to be true, are they going to base it upon the following criterion?

1) BMQ
2) SQ            __
3) QL3 Med Res |
4) QL4 Med Res |---------------> Reg QL3 
5) PCP              |
                    ---


Since we're on this topic, does anyone know if a PRes MedTech needs to be licensed in their province once their PCP is completed to get RegF equivalency? Since the RegF candidates aren't licensed, and if the PRes MedTech has no desire to work civi side would they still qualify for their equivalency?


----------



## Snakedoc

Interesting...does this make the most sense functionally for the current state (training etc.) of reserve medics?


----------



## The_Falcon

MedTech said:
			
		

> Ho ho! I didn't know such a thing was even possible!  ;D
> 
> I don't but that would be a headache all over again. Most of us that were sworn in at a certain period from Jun 03 on wards were classifieds as R737 MedTechs, and those before us were R711 Med As. Although everyone was eventually converted it was a headache.
> 
> Now, if this was to be true, are they going to base it upon the following criterion?
> 
> 1) BMQ
> 2) SQ            __
> 3) QL3 Med Res |
> 4) QL4 Med Res |---------------> Reg QL3
> 5) PCP              |
> ---
> 
> 
> Since we're on this topic, does anyone know if a PRes MedTech needs to be licensed in their province once their PCP is completed to get RegF equivalency? *Since the RegF candidates aren't licensed*, and if the PRes MedTech has no desire to work civi side would they still qualify for their equivalency?



They weren't licenced before, according to MediPea, her group was the first to become fully licenced PCPs


----------



## HItorMiss

Yes MediPea's course will be the first course to complete the 6 month long portion at JIBC this fall. They will be fully lisences in BC as paramedics (Well that is if everyone passes the lisencing...)


----------



## Pea

Just a small correction folks, our course will not be the first to be licensed PCP's. We are just the first Anglo 6-month PCP course out here in Chilliwack. (used to be just over 3 months) I'm not sure when they started licensing the PCP's, but I know it was at least a few courses ago.


----------



## Civvymedic

I was told today that in 3-4 months Med-Techs with a PCP diploma would be getting specialist pay! Any talk about this one?


----------



## Pea

Who told you that?.... Because that is the first I have heard about it. (although it's been "in talks" for a looooong time according to every medic I know)


----------



## Civvymedic

Recruiting person


----------



## medicineman

MediPea said:
			
		

> Just a small correction folks, our course will not be the first to be licensed PCP's. We are just the first Anglo 6-month PCP course out here in Chilliwack. (used to be just over 3 months) I'm not sure when they started licensing the PCP's, but I know it was at least a few courses ago.



IIRC, the first attempt at licensing was in early spring last year - a friend of mine was on that course while I was stil on Phase 1.

MM


----------



## The_Falcon

Civvymedic said:
			
		

> I was told today that in 3-4 months Med-Techs with a PCP diploma would be getting specialist pay! Any talk about this one?



I think you (or the recruiter) may be thinking of the current recruiting allowance for semi-skilled medtechs.


----------



## Civvymedic

I wasnt aware of a recruiting allowance, actually I was told that there wasnt one. My PLAR came back with some nice write off's towards Med-Tech. PCP, Prov cert. etc but no rank or wage incentive. Med-Tech is definately the route I want to pursue but Im looking at a 60k pay cut to go to Privates pay so Im now looking at the Reserves. It was during this conversation after turning down both Sar-Tech and Med-Tech that the Spec pay for Med-Techs with a PCP diploma came up.


----------



## HCA

As it stands:

1) Those current med techs that don't hold a PCP license will revert back to Med Assistants.  Those med techs in reserve units that hold a PCP license (and have been certified by the area surgeon) will remain med techs.  Reserve units are now allowed to recruit personnel for both trades. (Recruting freeze on Med A type pers ended last fall, and full time recruiters rehired)

2) Indeed there has been movement on the spec pay file for med techs.  It has not yet been approved but has met with approval within the HS CoC.  Of course these things must be approved much higher than the HS to be made gospel.  In the end though it is another step in the right direction.


----------



## The_Falcon

Civvymedic said:
			
		

> I wasnt aware of a recruiting allowance, actually I was told that there wasnt one. My PLAR came back with some nice write off's towards Med-Tech. PCP, Prov cert. etc but no rank or wage incentive. Med-Tech is definately the route I want to pursue but Im looking at a 60k pay cut to go to Privates pay so Im now looking at the Reserves. It was during this conversation after turning down both Sar-Tech and Med-Tech that the Spec pay for Med-Techs with a PCP diploma came up.



You may want to have look at this CANFORGEN "CANFORGEN 146/08 CMP 059/08 061550Z AUG 08"  (The text of which I already posted in another thread).


----------



## medaid

HCA said:
			
		

> As it stands:
> 
> 1) Those current med techs that don't hold a PCP license will revert back to Med Assistants.  Those med techs in reserve units that hold a PCP license (and have been certified by the area surgeon) will remain med techs.  Reserve units are now allowed to recruit personnel for both trades. (Recruting freeze on Med A type pers ended last fall, and full time recruiters rehired)



So how will the MedA pers be employed then? How will their duties and roles be changed? How will their scopes of practices be limited?

Will the PRes MedAs be allowed to become MedTechs once their PCP has gone through the long chain?


----------



## HCA

So how will the MedA pers be employed then?  How will their duties and roles be changed? How will their scopes of practices be limited? These details are still being worked out but as of right now some of the roles envisioned are: Bison Ambulance Drivers and backfill in clinics for deployed reg force members.  There scope of practice will be as per the training they receive which is the same minus PCP.

Will the PRes MedAs be allowed to become MedTechs once their PCP has gone through the long chain. Yes they will and the "long chain" is not very long at all any more.  We regularly send the paperwork off to be reviewed and it does not take that long.


----------



## xo31@711ret

Be interesting to see how all this works out as I'm in the same naval reserve unit as the first post by wamoine. I 'retired' as a sgt after +24 reg service (infantry, then LOTPed to med a) in Aug 06 to follow niner-domestic here on her last posting for her 20 regs. I'm  class A at the unit doing the the med adm, conducting medical exams for the unit and recruiting. I did the 'old' 6A (six months v/s a few weeks). 
Not that it matters ( to me anyway), but be interesting to see if I'm a med a or med tech.


----------



## Activated

Hello. I've been thinking about a medical technician for more than a year now, and I even thought of postponing my involvement with the army until later. A medical technician needs to be done high school, and I am only turning 16. 

I would just like to ask, as a Infanteer, what jobs can I pursue? Am I able to become a Combat Medic, a Support Gunner, or something like that? Can anyone tell me?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## OldSolduer

A an infanteer, you will do BMQ & SQ (or whatever we're calling it these days). You will recieve some First Aid training during the BMQ.
Then you will do BIQ (Basic Infantry Qualification). Everyone in the infantry, in theory, should be able to fire every infantry weapon, including the C9 and C6.
As for medical training, some of the infantry take the TCCC course. I don't know all that much about it.


----------



## Redeye

In the Reserve it shouldn't be impossible to change trade to Med Tech (or anything else) as you progress in education.  I've seen it happen a fair bit, though mostly people going from other trades to infantry because they move to our area and there's no other trades really.

As an infanteer, the closest you can become to a medic is TCCC qualified, which at least at the current time is not something a reservist is likely to get, it tends to be just those going overseas that are able to take the course.

Your basic job will be as a rifleman, but you will be qualified on all infantry weapons, and could be assigned to be a C9 gunner, a C6 gunner, to other positions in the weapons det like the 84 or mortar, etc.



			
				Activated said:
			
		

> Hello. I've been thinking about a medical technician for more than a year now, and I even thought of postponing my involvement with the army until later. A medical technician needs to be done high school, and I am only turning 16.
> 
> I would just like to ask, as a Infanteer, what jobs can I pursue? Am I able to become a Combat Medic, a Support Gunner, or something like that? Can anyone tell me?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## kj_gully

Just to be clear, joining the army doesn't make you an Infanteer. The army revolves around the Infanteer, but you don't have to be an Infanteer to be in the Army. Med Tech is a separate job. If you want to do medical stuff, join as a Medic. There are many posts in here about medics: http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/board,45.0.htmlon that. If you want to create work for medics, join the infantry.


----------



## Activated

Thanks a lot guys, it answered a lot of questions... On the other hand, can anyone confirm that you are not able to take the TCCC course in a reserve unit? Or confirm that there can be combat medics with Infanteers


----------



## Activated

kj_gully said:
			
		

> Just to be clear, joining the army doesn't make you an Infanteer. The army revolves around the Infanteer, but you don't have to be an Infanteer to be in the Army. Med Tech is a separate job. If you want to do medical stuff, join as a Medic. There are many posts in the Health services section of milnet.ca on that. If you want to create work for medics, join the infantry.



The thing is, you have to be done High School with a credit in Biology and Chemistry. As of right now, I am not close to finishing high school, therefore, not eligible to be a Medical Technician


----------



## PMedMoe

Activated said:
			
		

> Thanks a lot guys, it answered a lot of questions... On the other hand, can anyone confirm that you are not able to take the TCCC course in a reserve unit? Or confirm that there can be combat medics with Infanteers



First off, there is no such thing as a "combat" medic, per se.  IIRC, if you are trained as a medic and have your SQ, you can serve with an army unit.  The chances of a reservist who is not deploying getting a TCCC course is slim to none and slim just walked out the door.  Go see the CFRC and discuss your trade possibilities with them. If you want to join the reserves before you finish high school, you are going to have to join as something else and then OT to Med Tech once you meet the qualifications.  Have you even written a CFAT yet?


----------



## kj_gully

Full blown Combat medics are Medics. There are TCCC qualified Infanteers to assist. You can get TCCC as Reserve, my guess is it is more likely if going on deployment. You should join the Reserves and if you like the Army, Occupational Transfer to Medic once you have the prerequisites. Until then, which isn't very far away, you can learn some basic soldier skills and earn some money.


----------



## DrewN

So ever since i was 15, i was interesting in helping people, in combination with joining the military so i've never really known what i could do, i thought i would have to pick either nurse or join the military. But my friend suggested a "combat medic". I visited the forces website looking for a career that would be similar to combat medic, there is no "combat medic" MOC on the website, the closest thing to it i found would be a medical technician.

So my question is, do medical technicians fight on the line with the infantry? Are they the medics that are on the front line helping the wounded infantry and stuff? You're help is much appreciated, im signing up once i graduated from highschool with my chemistry and biology credits.

which would be this september.


----------



## MikeL

Yes there are Med Techs attached to Rifle Companies and Recce Pl in an Infantry Battalion when overseas.   Search the forums an I'm sure you will find more info about it and what QL level you need to be attached to the Infantry.


----------



## DrewN

thanks alot for the very quick response. I've tried to search and come up with nothing, but i could very well be searching the wrong key words.


----------



## Loachman

Did you try "Medic"? That pulled up a page of posts. So did "Med Tech". Trying "Med" did the same.


----------



## PMedMoe

Med Techs do not "fight" on the front line.  They are governed by the Geneva Convention.  Google it.  Far to much detail to post here, however, in the simplest terms, they can only "fight" for protection of themselves or their patient.


----------



## kj_gully

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Med Techs do not "fight" on the front line.  They are governed by the Geneva Convention.  Google it.  Far to much detail to post here, however, in the simplest terms, they can only "fight" for protection of themselves or their patient.



but they do carry a gun....


----------



## Armymedic

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Med Techs do not "fight" on the front line.  They are governed by the Geneva Convention.  Google it.  Far to much detail to post here, however, in the simplest terms, they can only "fight" for protection of themselves or their patient.



Yes, party line for public consumption.

In reality though....


----------



## Activated

Thanks a lot guys, I was talking about the TCCC course. I already got myself planned now. Join the infantry, then change to Medical Tech.  Thank you again


----------



## protege121

I have been reading allot of threads about Med Techs reg and reserves and the way it sounds is the reserves don't receive the full training the reg force Med Techs do. My question is if this is correct and I decide to volunteer for a tour over seas how am I supposed to feel confident in my ability to offer the same care as a reg force med tech and will the soldiers be feeling the same way? I have been an EMR for over a year and have worked with an ambulance company and have gone on tons of calls. I know it is not the same as in the field but there is something to say for experience dealing with patients no matter how serious the call.  I guess what I am asking is, By joining the reserves am I going to get the necessary tools I need to be able to serve my country over seas and at home and if not are there extra courses I can take to better my education and experience so I will be ready when the time comes. If I could go reg force right now I would but it will be a few years before that happens so I feel that the reserves is a great start and a way to start my training and gain valuable experience.


----------



## Dean22

I am pretty positive that reserves get the same training as regulars (maybe not the same quality in terms of obstacle courses). The people training the reserves are usually from what I have heard the older reservists and soldiers from the regulars. So if a regular ever says a reservist has bad training it would be like the pot calling the kettle black since the regulars help train reservists.

Infantry reservists in Ontario are gifted with the fact that Meaford (their MOC training area) is close to them.


----------



## PMedMoe

Dean22 said:
			
		

> I am pretty positive that reserves get the same training as regulars



No they do not.

If you are Air Reserve, you will go on a Reg F course and be trained to the same standard.  Army Reserves do the courses at their own units.  I can't speak for the Naval Reserves.

We once had a Reserve QL6A Med Tech at our unit for a tasking.  He was not allowed to work unsupervised.  This was a few years ago, things may have changed since then.


----------



## Scott

Last warning Dean, stay in your lanes or go into the warning system

Scott
Army.ca Staff


----------



## dapaterson

Actually, Reserve Med Techs do not belong to the Air Reserve or the Army Reserve; rather, all Reserve Med Techs belong to the Health Services Reserves.

As I am not with the HS Reserves, I'm not in a place to discuss their training standards, Reg and/or Res.


----------



## PMedMoe

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Actually, Reserve Med Techs do not belong to the Air Reserve or the Army Reserve; rather, all Reserve Med Techs belong to the Health Services Reserves.



That is true, however, they still must parade at a unit and that would determine their element and training.

I will admit, I was never a Medic in the Reserves, however, I have known quite a few and those who took the same courses as the Reg F Medics, wore the Air uniform.


----------



## X-mo-1979

Some of the best medics we had on tour were reservist.As most of them were paramedics from large urban areas,and honestly had more experience in trauma than the reg force medics with them.


----------



## PMedMoe

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Some of the best medics we had on tour were reservist.As most of them were paramedics from large urban areas,and honestly had more experience in trauma than the reg force medics with them.



Of course they would, being paramedics from large urban areas.   Unfortunately, most medics (Reg or Res) usually don't get much trauma exposure until they deploy.


----------



## medaid

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> No they do not.
> 
> If you are Air Reserve, you will go on a Reg F course and be trained to the same standard.  Army Reserves do the courses at their own units.  I can't speak for the Naval Reserves.
> 
> We once had a Reserve QL6A Med Tech at our unit for a tasking.  He was not allowed to work unsupervised.  This was a few years ago, things may have changed since then.



Moe you're only partially right. There no longer exists a Naval or Air Reserve MedAid. The ONLY Health Services Reserve Unit is now the Field Ambulance. PRes MedTechs by definition are all LAND and do NOT do MOC training at their units, they do it at CFHSS Borden where the PRes QL3MedTech is ran. The course is the St John's AMFR2 (POS course), which is recognized by St John and some places. IMHO if the CF H Svc switched to PCP then they should also have switched to EMR as the PRes QL3, but I digress. 

Currently there exists a program where PRes MedTechs after completing a tour may put their name in for Forces paid PCP training, provided that they meet the pre reqs, and is willing to serve a period of Class B/C service after the completion of the PCP training. After the completion of PCP, PRes QL3 and QL4 they are then granted a RegF QL3 standard and can be deployed just like any other QL3 MedTech in the RegF. This program is seldom used, and is stringent to get into. Another words, don't count on it if you're an applicant. 

But keep this in mind, those PCPs who join from a Civilian service into the CF will already have MORE experience and patient contact hrs then a RegF QL3 MedTech serving the same amount of time in the CF. We often frack things up beautifully by pissing the clinicians and paramedics off by not recognizing their skills. So if you've alredy got your PCP and working on car... think hard and carefully about joining the CF H Svc.

Hope that cleared things up.


----------



## brandon_

Dean22 said:
			
		

> Infantry reservists in Ontario are gifted with the fact that Meaford (their MOC training area) is close to them.


  How can you even say that ?  even tho i'm not in yet, i live in thunder bay. Meaford IS NOWHERE NEAR thunder bay, to say if its around GTA that almost 18 hrs ? shilo is the closest to us at 8-9ish.


----------



## Staff Weenie

Protege - the simple answer is that Reserve Force Med Techs do not, for the most part, get the same training as the Reg F Med Techs. But it's not as cut and dry as that would make it seem.

As a Res F Med Tech, you would start with Basic Military Qaulification (BMQ) and Soldier Qualification (SQ - now called BMQ-Land in some places). This is your basic soldier skill set, and the Reg F gets pretty much the same training in this regard.

For actual medical training, the Reserves have Qualification Level (QL) 3, 4, 6A, and 6B. These are courses run in CFB Borden in the summer.  The Regular Force has career courses at Borden as well, but they are longer in duration, and over time enable a far greater scope of practice. 

To be equivalent to a Reg F QL3 Med Tech, a Reservist needs their QL3 and 4, and to be a current Primary Care Paramedic. Once you have the 3's and 4's and PCP, a Prior Learning Assessment gets sent to the national HQ and the equivalency is granted. Does this sound convoluted enough?

In theory, Reg F QL3 equivalency is the absolute minimum for you to be deployed in a medical role. But, there are many Res F Med Techs who don't have their PCP who have gone over as Armoured Ambulance Drivers, or Crew Commanders, or have worked in Admin roles in the hospital. If you were to join a Res F unit, you could also send up all your civilian qualifications to see what sort of equivalencies can be granted.

Being a Reservist does not shut out the Reg F career stream as well. As noted, there is the Res F PCP Training Initiative, where Res units can nominate members to go on the PCP program, which can lead to Reg F QL3 equivalency. This is also about to be furthered by offering the ability to those who have remained 'clinically current' to go on the Reg F QL5 course. The Reg F is also addressing what to do with people who want to join the Reserves after getting their Physician Assistant degree from a civilian university.

If you can't join the Reg F at the moment, join the Res F - you can get going on the BMQ and SQ, even the Driver's course. If you get you QL3 and QL4 before going to the Reg F, then you only need to be trained to the deficit - PCP. 

Good luck - it is an amazing and rewarding career!


----------



## medaid

protege121 said:
			
		

> I have been reading allot of threads about Med Techs reg and reserves and the way it sounds is the reserves don't receive the full training the reg force Med Techs do.



Not in every case. Like I said, those who have their PCP in the PRes and have completed the PRes MedTEch QL3/4 is given a RegF QL3 standard, and is able to provide the same care to the troops. However you are very rarely without supervision as a QL3 MedTech, and most often then not if you're a paramedic civi side you've got more exposure to trauma, and medical calls then majority of QL3 medtechs in the RegF anyways. 



			
				protege121 said:
			
		

> My question is if this is correct and I decide to volunteer for a tour over seas how am I supposed to feel confident in my ability to offer the same care as a reg force med tech and will the soldiers be feeling the same way?



More often then not unless you havea RegF QL3 you would NOT be deployed in a patient care provider role. You will deploy as Bison Amb Driver, or 1 Section 2 Detachment Pte/Cpl #5 another words an assistant. You will be utilized up to the extent of your training. If SHTF then you have to do the best you can with the training that you have Forces, or civi side. 



			
				protege121 said:
			
		

> I have been an EMR for over a year and have worked with an ambulance company and have gone on tons of calls. I know it is not the same as in the field but there is something to say for experience dealing with patients no matter how serious the call.



Well true and not true. As an EMR your protocols are limited, and you cannot start IVs or use a nebuliser, or a Sager depending on which province you're from. But you're right patient contact is better then no patient contact. 



			
				protege121 said:
			
		

> I guess what I am asking is, By joining the reserves am I going to get the necessary tools I need to be able to serve my country over seas and at home and if not are there extra courses I can take to better my education and experience so I will be ready when the time comes.



Not all of the necessary tools, because PRes training is severely lacking. The AMFR2 program does NOT work. I've seen high school First-Responders perform better then my PRes QL3 MedTechs... that says something.  The extra courses you can take are the following:

PCP. 



			
				protege121 said:
			
		

> If I could go reg force right now I would but it will be a few years before that happens so I feel that the reserves is a great start and a way to start my training and gain valuable experience.



PRes is an awesome way to start, but gaining experience wise I wouldn't count on it. Honestly the H Svc Reserve is not what it's cracked up to be. This is due to limiting of training, having people who don't know what Pre-Hospital care is all about in charge of the training, and in command of the units. This unfortunately is a broad stroke, and details would obviously have to be provided... however... those were my observations. 

What I'm trying to say is, yes experience will be there... but your mileage will greatly vary.


----------



## PMedMoe

mariomike said:
			
		

> I would rather pick up a hundred strangers than get sent to go get a friend. Those are the calls you tend to remember. I think that's the big difference.



I agree with you on that point, however, that's not what my comment was about.


----------



## protege121

Thanks everyone for your comments


----------



## gQeline

hello,

im currently in grade 11 ... so i will be graduating next year. ive done a bit of research ..
to become a medical technician i need to finish highschool with chemsitry and biology, and im taking both of those.
the things im worried about are the physical fitness test and the CFAT.
my questions are: (sorry if there are many questions)

1) how hard is the 2.4 km run ? would running on the treadmill be good enough to prepare for it?
2) how high of a score would i need to get on the CFAT
3) how about if i dont pass the CFAT to become a medtech, do i still have another chance to become one, example: maybe doing a re-test.
4) i heard it takes a while to actually become a reserve ? should i go to the nearest recruiting centre NOW, apply as a reserve, and do all the processes?  ... because i plan to do all the training and the tests in the summer after i graduate so it would be right after i graduate highschool and just before i go to university.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP IN ADVANCE, AND SORRY FOR THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS!!!

-GQ.


----------



## brihard

gQeline said:
			
		

> hello,
> 
> im currently in grade 11 ... so i will be graduating next year. ive done a bit of research ..
> to become a medical technician i need to finish highschool with chemsitry and biology, and im taking both of those.
> the things im worried about are the physical fitness test and the CFAT.
> my questions are: (sorry if there are many questions)
> 
> 1) how hard is the 2.4 km run ? would running on the treadmill be good enough to prepare for it?
> 2) how high of a score would i need to get on the CFAT
> 3) how about if i dont pass the CFAT to become a medtech, do i still have another chance to become one, example: maybe doing a re-test.
> 4) i heard it takes a while to actually become a reserve ? should i go to the nearest recruiting centre NOW, apply as a reserve, and do all the processes?  ... because i plan to do all the training and the tests in the summer after i graduate so it would be right after i graduate highschool and just before i go to university.
> 
> THANKS FOR YOUR HELP IN ADVANCE, AND SORRY FOR THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS!!!
> 
> -GQ.



Questions are fine. A few points:

1) Caps lock is not cruise control for cool. Using all caps in your title or post will not get you more positive attention.
2) Please use a modicum of proper grammar. If you're in grade 11, you know how to capitalize and use punctuation. We expect it of C.F. members, and we expect people asking for our help to make the effort.

On to the substantive points:

You can run 2.4km already. you might hate every second of it, you might be sucking wind worse than you ever have in your life, but it's simply something the human body is capable of. I'm assuming your school has a track- 2.4km is just six laps of that. If you can run it in the necessary time on a treadmill, you're probably fine to do it on a track. The running room has a great discussion site here with a lot fo advice for new runners.

I don't know about the CFAT score for medic. If you fail it the first time, you can always try again later.

It can take some time, but actually I recommend you apply right now- that way, you'll be able to do your BMQ (the first course) on odd weekends during your grade 12 school year. That's how I did mine, and how many others do theirs. This way you'll be through BMQ in time to do your Soldier Qualification and your Med Tech course the summer after you graduate and before beginning university.

Finally, please read this thread: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17703.0.html and read all the links that apply to you. It will save you time and grief later.

Best of luck in your efforts, drive the body, and welcome to army.ca.


----------



## gQeline

I thank you for your reply, and taking time off your day to do so.

Also, thank you for your tips, and I am very sorry for using improper grammar, I will keep that in mind.

Once again, thank you


----------



## readytogo

Hey everybody,

          I did a search for this but found only unconfirmed info about from a few years ago, so here in lies the question.  I just got off the phone with a woman from ACP who informed me that if a pers is QL3 certified reserve medtech they can challenge the EMT-A exam and be certified in the province of AB to practice at that level???? she said all you would need is some kind of form indicating your level of recieved training (Ql3 or up) and a letter from your CO indicating your scope of work and roles within your unit???? if this is in fact true and she didnt misunderstand me to be a reg Medtech than I am very excited about the prospects for the next couple of years!!! can any one confirm or deny before i get my hopes up too high?


Regards,

RTG


----------



## PMedMoe

I have a feeling that the Reg F and Res F Med Tech QL3 courses have _huge_ differences in them.


----------



## readytogo

That was my understanding at first as well Moe, granted my experience is extremely limited but i was told that they split the reg ql3 into 3 pieces for us res folks.  Ql3 one summer then ql4 the next, only then would you be loaded on course to go to Chilliwack for the last pieces(possibly the practical portions???) but once again i suppose my unit would be the best place to get final confirmation.

just thought id throw it into cyberspace and see what came back.

Cheers

RTG


----------



## medicineman

I think you'll find that Res QL3 won't cut it - just to make sure, get a copy of the scope of practice and send it her way and see if her tune stays the same.

MM


----------



## readytogo

Will do MM thanks


----------



## mariomike

readytogo said:
			
		

> Hey everybody,
> 
> I did a search for this but found only unconfirmed info about from a few years ago, so here in lies the question.  I just got off the phone with a woman from ACP who informed me that if a pers is QL3 certified reserve medtech they can challenge the EMT-A exam and be certified in the province of AB to practice at that level???? she said all you would need is some kind of form indicating your level of recieved training (Ql3 or up) and a letter from your CO indicating your scope of work and roles within your unit???? if this is in fact true and she didnt misunderstand me to be a reg Medtech than I am very excited about the prospects for the next couple of years!!! can any one confirm or deny before i get my hopes up too high?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> RTG



I assume you have seen these links. They apply to Paramedics registered outside Alberta ( Even if Alberta is your home province ):
http://collegeofparamedics.org/pages/Registration/equivalency.aspx
http://collegeofparamedics.org/pages/Registration/AgreementonInternalTradeMutualRecognitionAgreement.aspx


"While most Canadians can now benefit from full labour mobility, there are a small number of professions for which additional requirements are needed when moving to another province and/or territory. These exceptions have been established as necessary to meet a legitimate objective, such as the protection of public health or safety."


----------



## readytogo

agreed mike i did read those this morning and it tells me that a PCP can register in alberta as a restricted EMT?? so the only query that remains is to wether or not the reserve ql3 will cut it for qualifications??


----------



## mariomike

readytogo said:
			
		

> agreed mike i did read those this morning and it tells me that a PCP can register in alberta as a restricted EMT??



This shows the competencies required to achieve licensure in Alberta as an EMT-Ambulance, if registered in another province:
http://collegeofparamedics.org/Content_Files/Files/LabourMobilityComparison_EMT.pdf

This is for Alberta EMT-Paramedic:
http://collegeofparamedics.org/Content_Files/Files/LabourMobilityComparison_ACP.pdf

Remember, in Alberta, there are two levels of EMT ( Technician and Technologist ):

Certificate:
Emergency Medical Technician - Ambulance 
EMT-A:
http://sait.ca/pages/cometosait/academic/certificates/aemta.shtml

Diploma:
Emergency Medical Technologist - Paramedic 
EMT-P:
http://sait.ca/pages/cometosait/whatdoitake/academic/diplomas/aemtp.shtml

"Emergency Services in Alberta":
http://www.albertacanada.com/immigration/media/WA_es_factsheet_en.pdf

"Occupations in Demand":
• Emergency Medical Responder
• Emergency Medical Technician - Ambulance
• Emergency Medical Technologist - Paramedic


----------



## WYT

Hi. I am interested in becoming a reserve med tech on the lower mainland BC. However, I currently possess only a "novice" drivers licence. Is it possible for candidates to be accepted with only an "N"(novice drivers licence)? Please advise.


----------



## mariomike

WYT said:
			
		

> Is it possible for candidates to be accepted with only an "N"(novice drivers licence)?



Topic: "Would a "Learner's License" cut it for Medical Technician?!"  
See reply #14: 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103232/post-1089113.html#msg1089113


----------



## Hunter

To join as a reserves as a medical assistant, having a drivers license is not a prerequisite. And unless you are already trained as a paramedic, you would be a medical assistant, not medical technician.


----------



## WYT

Thanks to the second person responding. However, searching the net re: "medical assistant" in the CF brought up nothing. Where are these based out of the lower mainland? So far as I know there are only medical lab techs and med techs available for NCMs. Is medical Officer open to applicants who have only an undergrad degree(in the arts) or only for med school grads? Please advise, I have searched the net and found nothing hence I post here.


----------



## medicineman

WYT said:
			
		

> Thanks to the second person responding. However, searching the net re: "medical assistant" in the CF brought up nothing. Where are these based out of the lower mainland? So far as I know there are only medical lab techs and med techs available for NCMs. Is medical Officer open to applicants who have only an undergrad degree(in the arts) or only for med school grads? Please advise, I have searched the net and found nothing hence I post here.



12 Fd Ambulance is in Vancouver (Jericho Beach IIRC).  To join the Reserves as an MO, you need to be an MD.

MM


----------



## WYT

Whats this talk about "medical assistant" position? Is this a current position? The forces.ca website doesn't list the occupation?


----------



## MedCorps

A Medical Assistant is a Reserve Force Medical Technician who does not have the Primary Care Paramedic (PCP) qualification at the Pte / Cpl / MCpl level.  If you are in the Reserve Force as a Pte / Cpl / MCpl and have the PCP along with RQL3 and RQL4 then you are a Medical Technician.  If you only have the RQL3 and/or RQL4 then you are a Medical Assistant. 

MC


----------



## dogger1936

WYT said:
			
		

> Is medical Officer open to applicants who have only an undergrad degree(in the arts)



That would explain a few things! ;D


----------



## curious george

And a physician assistant is different from a medical assistant...?


----------



## MedCorps

A physician assistant is a medical technician, who at the rank of sergeant undertakes a two year (Qualification Level 6B) course. Upon successful completion they are promoted to warrant officer. They then have to complete certification by the Physician Assistant Certification Council of Canada and then they are full fledged physician assistants.  Physician assistants in the Reserve Force are all ex-Regular Force, you cannot do the Regular Force QL6B course at this time as a Res F Med Tech / Med A. 

MC


----------



## WYT

Thanks for the response MEDCORPS. The unit is the one in jericho beach vancouver?


----------



## genuinehappyguy

Hey there,


    I've been debating about joining the reserves as a Medical Technician.  I currently work full time and also take online classes full time.  My plan is to apply to medical school in a year or so and hopefully transfer to the MOTP program as it seems very appealing to me.  Joining the Medical Technicians will give me a great experience and will undoubtedly help me get into the MOTP program.  The issue is I'm currently supporting myself and my wife (who's also in school).  I would not be able to do so without working my current job.  I spoke to a recruiter; and he mentioned that I can do it at my own pace.  Start off by doing 1 weekday a week and 1 weekend a month.  If I wanted an increase I could go do my training (BMQ, Soldier Training, and Medical Technician Training).  However, I have a few questions:

   At what rate do they want you to do this training?  If I wasn't able to do any training for a whole year (due to not being able to take time off work) - would this be an issue?  

   Also, how does vacation time work in the reserves?  I've been working for 6 years at my current job and have 4 weeks off a year; if I join the reserves / can I still go on vacation?  Will I be able to take 3 weeks of from reservist work?  Or do I have an obligation there to do it each week?

   How does the terms work?  If I worked as a reserve for 8 months and never completed any other training (because my full-time job wouldn't allow it) / would I be able to leave the reserves?  If I complete all the training, am I able to leave any time there after?  (I'm not planning on getting in and getting out / I just want to know what I'm getting into).

   Also - my wife (who is also planning on going to med school) is also interested in the program.  If we were to BOTH join the Medical Technician Reserves, would we be able to work on the same week night / weekends? (Might be a question better directed as the local field ambulance office).  

Thank you in advance,
Joey


----------



## Blackadder1916

genuinehappyguy said:
			
		

> I've been debating about joining the reserves as a Medical Technician.  I currently work full time and also take online classes full time.  My plan is to apply to medical school in a year or so and hopefully transfer to the MOTP program as it seems very appealing to me.  Joining the Medical Technicians will give me a great experience and *will undoubtedly help me get into the MOTP program*.


No, that's not necessarily so.  It won't be a negative, but the primary factor for acceptance to MOTP (or MMTP which may apply to a reservist) is whether an applicant has already been accepted to and is attending medical school.



> . . . . . If I wasn't able to do any training for a whole year (due to not being able to take time off work) - would this be an issue?


It could be an issue.  While there is considerable leeway in the reserves with respect to individuals pursuing education and career, there is an expectation that newly enrolled soldiers attempt to complete all the necessary training at the first available opportunity.  The way most reserve training is scheduled results in it taking approximately one "school year" and the following summer period to be qualified to the first occupational level.  If soldiers are unable to attend scheduled "parades" (_parades are regularly scheduled work periods, usually one evening a week - not ceremonial marching around_), they can request to be "excused duty and training" (ED&T) so that no administrative repercussions are applied for not showing up for duty.  If one made it a habit to not show up and was not excused, they could be compulsorily released.



> . . . . .  how does vacation time work in the reserves? . . . . .


Reserve units generally "parade" from September to May (roughly following the school year).  During the summer period, there are opportunities to attend courses (of varying lengths) or for full-time employment.  Most occupation qualifying courses for reservists are run during the summer, so if an individual needed to complete a specific course in order to be trade qualified (and thus useful) there is an expectation that he would attend.  Other than that, what you do is your own business.



> How does the terms work? . . . . .  would I be able to leave the reserves?


Reserve military service does not incur any obligatory service, it is purely voluntary.  You can request release at any time.  Okay, for the purists, if one was in the reserves and the Governor-in-Council placed them on active service, a reservist could face mandatory service, but the last time that happened we were fighting the Nazis



> Also - my wife (who is also planning on going to med school) is also interested in the program.  If we were to BOTH join the Medical Technician Reserves, would we be able to work on the same week night / weekends? (Might be a question better directed as the local field ambulance office).


If you were both in the same reserve unit, you would most likely be doing the same thing, at the same place, at the same time, just like every other junior Med Tech in that same unit.


----------



## genuinehappyguy

Thanks for the reply Blackadder1916,  it was very informative.   



> No, that's not necessarily so.  It won't be a negative, but the primary factor for acceptance to MOTP (or MMTP which may apply to a reservist) is whether an applicant has already been accepted to and is attending medical school.



   To clarify I realize that being a medical technician will not ensure I will be accepted to a medical school; however I believe I am a strong enough candidate to get in after this year.  Perhaps I confused MOTP with MMTP; but I'm hoping that joining as a medical technician would help me complete my medical school and residency (as I want to be a GP regardless) with the Canadian Forces.



> It could be an issue.  While there is considerable leeway in the reserves with respect to individuals pursuing education and career, there is an expectation that newly enrolled soldiers attempt to complete all the necessary training at the first available opportunity


As someone who works full-time and goes to school, the first available opportunity seems to be non-existent.  Seeing how the training for medical technician is 16 weeks in Borden, Ontario - I'm guessing the Reservists with the Canadian Forces are more geared towards students than full-time workers hoping to gain experience with the CF.

Thanks again for your response,
Joey


----------



## MikeL

genuinehappyguy said:
			
		

> I'm guessing the Reservists with the Canadian Forces are more geared towards students than full-time workers hoping to gain experience with the CF.



Yes there are a large amount of students in the Reserves,  but also a large majority of Reservists are not students and do have full time employment with various companies,  and public service.   They have managed to make being a Reservist and full time employed work for them,  and not just for Reserve training but being able to take a year + off their civilian employment in order to go overseas.


----------



## Blackadder1916

genuinehappyguy said:
			
		

> To clarify I realize that being a medical technician will not ensure I will be accepted to a medical school; however I believe I am a strong enough candidate to get in after this year.  Perhaps I confused MOTP with MMTP; but *I'm hoping that joining as a medical technician would help me complete my medical school and residency (as I want to be a GP regardless) with the Canadian Forces*.
> As someone who works full-time and goes to school, the first available opportunity seems to be non-existent.  Seeing how the training for medical technician is 16 weeks in Borden, Ontario - I'm guessing the Reservists with the Canadian Forces are more geared towards students than full-time workers hoping to gain experience with the CF.



How?  Okay, maybe I'm more easily confused as I get older but, do you understand what (non-PCP qualified) reserve Med Techs (_or have they reverted back to the title Med A?_) are trained to do, and what your status (rank/occupation/component) would be once in MOTP/MMTP?  If you would not be able to complete any occupation training prior to entering med school (_you seem to be discussing both happening in the same time frame_), what benefit would being a Med Tech (or Med A) bring to your goal of medical school that can't be found in another activity that is more amenable to your work/school schedule?

I can't speak to the length/location/content of current reserve medical courses as I am retired from the CF.  Also, my opinion should not be taken as to how current regulations are interpreted or applied, but (as a former CO of a reserve medical unit) if one of my soldiers was in the same situation as you present, he would be required to provide an indication as to when he could complete his training.  If he was not able to complete his training within a "reasonable" time frame, it would be suggested that he request voluntary release (or if the individual was not yet enrolled, then he would not be enrolled).  If the individual continued to avoid the required parading/training beyond the "reasonable" stage (and didn't heed the suggestion to VR), I would have no hesitation in recommending a compulsory release. Such a release would have the effect of cancelling any chance of MOTP/MMTP.

I am not deliberately trying to sound like a curmudgeon (though some who know me may disagree) as I laud you goal of becoming a physician and an MO in the CF.  However, you seem to have much on your plate and on that basis I question your plan to become a Med Tech since it appears that the only reason for doing so is to sweeten your application to med school or MOTP.  If you aren't able to do it properly, then don't do it at all.  Though many individuals may have motives in joining the CF beyond the desire to become a soldier with a specific occupation, those occupations are there to fulfill the needs of the CF not the wishes of people wanting to join.  There are Med Techs in the CF because Med Techs (reg or res) are needed to do specific tasks, the occupation is not designed as a stepping stone to something else.  I've known (and have counted among friends) a number of MOs who were reservists before going to med school under the MOTP (including at least one who rose to be Surg Gen) and I don't recall any who had been medical in the reserves.  I have known a couple of reserve Med As who (even though "they" thought they were God's gift to medicine) were disappointed by multiple rejections of their med school applications.  The point I'm trying to make is that it is not necessary to be a reserve Med Tech to get accepted for MOTP and unless you are able to provide credible reserve service, it could be counter-productive


----------



## JorgSlice

Genuinehappyguy, I'm not sure you're understanding the occupations...

*Civilian Occupation = Military Occupation*

Paramedic = Medical Technician (Non-Commissioned)
Doctor (med school, residency) = Medical Officer (Commissioned)
Nurse = Nursing Officer (Commissioned)
Dental Hygienist = Dental Tech (Non-Commissioned)
Dentist = Dental Officer (Commissioned)

etc.

If you're going into medical school and residency, sign on to the Medical Officer Training Plan as only MEDICAL OFFICERS hold occupation as doctors, medical techs are CF branded paramedics.

http://forces.ca/en/job/medicalofficer-50#info-1



> All candidates must provide an acceptance letter from an accredited Canadian Medical university, or if you are a current medical student or a resident in a family medicine program, you are eligible for the Medical Officer Training Plan (MOTP), which offers the following benefits:
> 
> 
> Full reimbursement of tuition fees and educational expenses, including books, instruments and supplies, student union fees and registration costs
> An annual salary ranging from $44K to $54K, with generous benefits.
> Participation in the Canadian Forces pension plan
> 20 working days of vacation time per year, increasing to 25 working days in the fifth year of service
> Free medical and dental care
> Maternity and parental leave in accordance with government-wide provisions
> MOTP candidates receive full pay and allowances throughout residency
> 
> Upon completing a few years as an experienced Medical Officer, you would then be eligible for further training in public health, occupational medicine, aerospace or tropical medicine, epidemiology or health care administration at any of the accredited Medical school throughout Canada. On successful completion of your residency in family medicine, you will be required to serve for four years in the Canadian Forces as a Medical Officer.



versus:

http://forces.ca/en/job/medicaltechnician-70#info-1



> Medical Technicians belong to the Canadian Forces Medical Service, and are integral members of the military health-care team. They work with Physicians, Physician Assistants and Nurses to treat the sick and injured in all kinds of Canadian Forces operations and units.
> 
> A Medical Technician has the following primary duties:
> 
> 
> Provide initial care for ill / injured patients;
> In trauma cases, provide basic life support treatments;
> Prescribe some medications in accordance with their scope of practice
> Provide medical support during environmental operations
> Recover casualties from the point of injury and transport them to a medical facility by wheeled or tracked ambulance, or by air
> Participate in rescues from crashed vehicles, tanks, ships, aircraft and damaged buildings
> Give basic advice on disease prevention, hygiene and sanitation, perform specific environmental health and preventive medicine duties
> Collect specimens and perform basic laboratory procedures
> Operate and maintain medical and life-support equipment
> Perform electrocardiograms (ECGs) and audiograms (hearing tests)
> Initiate, maintain and distribute medical records, documents, reports and returns; and
> Maintain, replenish and account for general and medical supplies
> 
> ...
> 
> After completing BMQ or SQ, Medical Technicians go on to Basic Military Occupational (MOC) Training. The first portion of this course takes 16 weeks and is given at the Canadian Forces Medical Service School (CFMSS) in CFB Borden, Ontario. It covers the following material:
> 
> 
> Delivering health care in the field
> Nursing medical and surgical patients in field conditions
> Use of therapeutic drugs
> Preventive medicine and
> Medical documentation
> 
> The second portion of the Medical Technicians’ Basic MOC Training is given at the Paramedic Academy of the Justice Institute of British Columbia in Chilliwack (for Anglophone candidates), and at Ahuntsic College in Montréal, Quebec (for Francophone candidates). These courses are tailored to military requirements while meeting performance standards set by the Paramedic Association of Canada and approved by the Canadian Medical Association.
> 
> On completion of this stage of training, Medical Technicians receive the professional credential of Primary Care Paramedic Level I.



In short,

Medical Tech = is not physician occupation, will not pay med school, obligated service 4 years
Medical Officer = paid med school, obligated service approx. 8 years: 4 during school, 4 after residency.

Read the Forces.ca pages.

If you want to be a doctor, join as a doctor. Occupational Transfers can be long and painful processes.


----------



## genuinehappyguy

Thanks for all the replies; they are very informative!

To Clarify - I realize that Medical Technician is not the same as Medical Officer (and I know they equate to Paramedic vs Physician).  I spoke to a recruiter a while back who said if you wanted to do the MOTP program (once you get into med school) you have a better chance of getting in if you've done some work with the CF before.  However, I'm in no position to give up either my employment (since I could not find anything near the compensation I am getting with my current employment in the CF (with my current qualifications) and I need to support two people) and I have to finish another year of school.  I liked the idea of joining the CF while being able to learn about medical training on a part time basis (1 night a week / 1 weekend a month).  This would both show a commitment to the CF (unfortunately only as much as I'm able to give at the moment) and would also give me medical experience which would in turn also help me be a more successful candidate to a medical school.

However, I in no way want to make it seem like I'm taking advantage of the medical technician program - especially if like you've mentioned that a release would be requested on my behalf.   Perhaps it's just best I want another 1.5 years (when I'll know if I get into a medical school) and apply for the MOTP... however I wish there was a way I could volunteer my time with the CF Medical Group part time during those 1.5 years.  Unfortunately it seems that unless I either leave my school or my supporting employment it isn't possible.

Thanks again for all the replies!
Joey


----------



## sidereus

Hi, 

I had few questions that I tought you guys could answer. First of all, I've been an infantry reservist for 5 years now and I've just transfered to Med Tech (reserve) at the 51e Field Ambulance in Montréal and I was wondering how long is the trade course in Borden? 

Also, I've been accepted in Pharm. D. at Université de Montréal and I begin in August. Now, my question is : let's say I transfer again but this time as an Army Reserve pharmacist once I'm finished school is it possible (if you want to) to be deployed? Then if so, has anyone had experience toward working with reserve pharmacist while on tour? how is it? how do the Res pharmacist manage to have a civilian career and get deployed? I heard that there is something in the law that makes it impossible for an employer to fire you if it is for military duty. I know quite a few guys in Infantry reserve that have deployed but they didn't really had a career or an important job, most of them were students. So I want to know how hard is it to keep that career and get deployed?

You could say: You should join Reg force if you want to have a tour. But the fact is that what I've found on the day to day routine of a pharmacist while on base didn't really interest me. My goal at the moment would be to work in a ER as a Emerg Pharmacist to do something that I really enjoy and it would also keep my skills up to date for any deployment if I were to be posted in a ER on a tour.

Sorry if my english isn't top notch as you must have guessed it's not my first language  :


----------



## PMedMoe

sidereus said:
			
		

> Sorry if my english isn't top notch as you must have guessed it's not my first language  :



Yours is better than some on here whose first language _is_ English.   :nod:


----------



## mariomike

sidereus said:
			
		

> how do the Res pharmacist manage to have a civilian career and get deployed? I heard that there is something in the law that makes it impossible for an employer to fire you if it is for military duty. I know quite a few guys in Infantry reserve that have deployed but they didn't really had a career or an important job, most of them were students. So I want to know how hard is it to keep that career and get deployed?



You may find this discussion helpful.

Reservists Job Protection Superthread  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/2552.0/nowap.html

Also, some employers have a Military Leave policy.


----------



## medicineman

I have to ask this, since I've worked in a few ER's before...and still do work in one.  I've never seen a clinical pharmacy position in an Emergency Dept - what do you hope to do there?  Not trying to be sarcastic incidentally - I've seen them on trauma team rounds in the unit/ICU, seen them with the Chemo units and they do quarterly med rounds in my PCH.

Just curious.

MM


----------



## sidereus

mariomike said:
			
		

> You may find this discussion helpful.
> 
> Reservists Job Protection Superthread
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/2552.0/nowap.html
> 
> Also, some employers have a Military Leave policy.



Thank you, it will be useful.




			
				medicineman said:
			
		

> I have to ask this, since I've worked in a few ER's before...and still do work in one.  I've never seen a clinical pharmacy position in an Emergency Dept - what do you hope to do there?  Not trying to be sarcastic incidentally - I've seen them on trauma team rounds in the unit/ICU, seen them with the Chemo units and they do quarterly med rounds in my PCH.
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> MM



I must admit I'm new to all this. Maybe when I begin to really see what it is all about I won't like it and change my mind, but at the moment what I've read looked challenging and interesting. Therapeutic drug monitoring, Resuscitation protocols, Pharmaceutical treatment advice, at this while under pressure. To me, this kind of job look more rewarding and challenging then dispensing pills at your local Shoppers.

I've read few articles on pubmed like : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20372006 and http://jpp.sagepub.com/content/24/2/146.abstract

but like I said I'm new and beginning in august so I don't much about what it really looks like. I can just say that patient care is really what I'm looking for and also a little bit action (I'm in the CF after all   )


----------



## medicineman

Interesting...there's definitely a role for the supply management and pharm/tox advice side of things in field, distaster and emergency medicine, though I think it'll be awhile before you see pharmacists running resucitations in Canadian ER's.  Run with it and see what happens.

MM


----------



## CombatDoc

sidereus said:
			
		

> Then if so, has anyone had experience toward working with reserve pharmacist while on tour?...
> You could say: You should join Reg force if you want to have a tour. But the fact is that what I've found on the day to day routine of a pharmacist while on base didn't really interest me. My goal at the moment would be to work in a ER as a Emerg Pharmacist to do something that I really enjoy and it would also keep my skills up to date for any deployment if I were to be posted in a ER on a tour.


I've never met a Res F pharmacist and certainly never while on tour.  I wasn't aware that being a Reservist Pharmacy Officer was an option, but it's on the Forces.ca website so there you go.  However, I am also not aware of clinical pharmacists being employed within the ER environment.  ICU - yes.  And I am fairly confident in saying that within the CF you are not going to be posted to an ER for an operational deployment.  If anything, you would be posted into a Pharm O position either in a pharmacy or in an FMed (forward medical depot) where you would be in charge of pharmaceutical (re)supply.  Cheers.


----------



## MedCorps

We do have some Res F Pharmacy Officer positions as part of 1 Canadian Field Hospital Detachment Ottawa (aka the Primary Reserve List).  Most of them are ex-Reg F Pharmacy Officers who want to still serve / have a useful skill set to the CF. 

That being said, it is free to apply and you will never know unless you try. 

MC


----------



## sidereus

Thank you guys for your replies! It's really appreciated. What I understand is that I have a lot to learn about how everything works in pharmacy in general. What I'll do, I think, is ask a lot of questions during my interships in hospital settings and at my new unit since I'm transfering at the 51e field ambulance. Then, I'll be able to decide what is the most appropriate thing to do. Your inputs have been really helpful thank you.


----------



## canucksfan250

Alright so unfortunately I was rejected into the infantry reserve due to my eyesight being at a v4.  When they informed me of this they have me a list of trades I could do. One of which was medical assistant.   I have looked on the forces site and I can't find the job, nor a description of what the trade does. So is this just another name of medical techs? And also as a med assistant would I be on the frontlines with the infantryman or behind the scenes assisting to the sounds of the injured?

I appreciate any answer I can be given


----------



## ModlrMike

canucksfan250 said:
			
		

> Alright so unfortunately I was rejected into the infantry reserve due to my eyesight being at a v4.  When they informed me of this they have me a list of trades I could do. One of which was medical assistant.   I have looked on the forces site and I can't find the job, nor a description of what the trade does.





> So is this just another name of medical techs?



Yes



> And also as a med assistant would I be on the frontlines with the infantryman or behind the scenes assisting to the sounds of the injured?



It depends on the job you're assigned to do. You could be with an infantry section, you could be at the first line medical facility, you could be further back.

I would caution you to moderate your expectations. We leave Afghanistan next year, so the "shootin' war" will be long over by the time you're sufficiently trained to deploy.


----------



## The_Falcon

canucksfan250 said:
			
		

> So is this just another name of medical techs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ModlrMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
Click to expand...


No, Med As do not hold a Paramedic Qualification,  Med Techs do.  The only way to become a reserve Med Tech is if you pay out of pocket to get your Paramedic cert, or you transfer from the Reg F.


----------



## kratz

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> No, Med As do not hold a Paramedic Qualification,  Med Techs do.  The only way to become a reserve Med Tech is if you pay out of pocket to get your Paramedic cert, or you transfer from the Reg F.



Thank you for posting it first.


----------



## canucksfan250

Thanks for the replies, so Med As do the same things as med techs just they aren't as qualified?  I am still sort of confused on what they actually do?


----------



## JorgSlice

Medical Assistants are more like Health Care Aides, not quite nurses not quite paramedics.


----------



## CombatDoc

canucksfan250 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies, so Med As do the same things as med techs just they aren't as qualified?  I am still sort of confused on what they actually do?


In simple terms, yes, Med As and Med Techs do the same type of work. Med As are not trained to the same level as Med Techs, the most important difference being that Med A lacks Primary Care Paramedic (PCP) qualification (unless they obtain it themselves, work as a civvy paramedic, etc). Lack of PCP limits their operational employment Outside the Wire.


----------



## medicineman

PrairieThunder said:
			
		

> Medical Assistants are more like Health Care Aides, not quite nurses not quite paramedics.



Med A's are now a P Res MOSID and are not HCA's...mind you back in the day when I was a Med A in the Reg Force before we became Med Techs, we were trained as practical nurses and EMT's and a few other odds and sods.  

MM


----------



## JorgSlice

medicineman said:
			
		

> Med A's are now a P Res MOSID and are not HCA's...mind you back in the day when I was a Med A in the Reg Force before we became Med Techs, we were trained as practical nurses and EMT's and a few other odds and sods.
> 
> MM



Interesting


----------



## rpowell29522

Question.I just recently graduated from and now successfully hold my Primary Care Paramedic certification(PCP).I have recently submitted an application into the CAF.How long will it be before I get a response from the CAF and what are the chances of me getting in?


----------



## canucksfan250

Took about a week for mine, some I've heard take longer.  It depends if you're going in reserve you have to call the local unit to see if they have positions available. Full force I'm not sure, you'll probably do fine as long as you pass your CFAT and all the other testing.


----------



## The_Falcon

rpowell29522 said:
			
		

> Question.I just recently graduated from and now successfully hold my Primary Care Paramedic certification(PCP).I have recently submitted an application into the CAF.How long will it be before I get a response from the CAF and what are the chances of me getting in?



Asked and answered multiple times, do a search.


----------



## justin9

Hello. what jobs are available in the health services reserve, are they all medical techs in there? i am planning out what to do and med tech always is in my options. i would like to join the reserves and maybe as a med tech while going to school. but now the problem i am thinking about is that i am not a graduate of paramedics, do i have no chance of going through this path? please let me know thanks!!!


----------



## ModlrMike

You could try going down to 17 Fd Amb and asking them those questions. Failing that, the answers are in the Recruiting forum.


----------



## mariomike

justin9 said:
			
		

> but now the problem i am thinking about is that i am not a graduate of paramedics, do i have no chance of going through this path?





			
				Hunter said:
			
		

> First of all, non PCP-qualified reserve medics are Medical Assistants, not Medical Technicians.


----------



## medicineman

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> You could try going down to 17 Fd Amb and asking them those questions. Failing that, the answers are in the Recruiting forum.



To add to that, they parade Tuesday nights around 1830-1900 at Minto Armouries.

MM


----------



## justin9

Hello,

I am planning on joining as Medical Assistant in the reserve. I am currently pursuing a science degree and maybe apply for med school if nothing changes. Will this occupation in the reserve be helpful towards my future goal? Or should I skip this trade and choose another one in the reservers?

Bottom line I still want to join the reserve while I go to school. I am just thinking if this experience would be useless for me if I plan to go to med school anyway. I am just thinking since maybe I would learn all this anyway towards becoming an MD? Mostly all the occupations are very much interesting for me and I wouldn't really mind learning from any of the trades. So I'm wondering if becoming a Med A is fine prior to med school or becoming a doctor, or if it is better to learn something different than being in the same aspect of skill?

I hope you can understand. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you


----------



## medicineman

It's really all up to you...the Reserve unit I'm affiliated with right now has a couple of med students as members quite happily, one an officer and the other a MCpl.  A Cpl from there started med school overseas last year...they were/are all generally happy with their experiences.  Ball's really in your court.

MM


----------



## mega_chichi2

Hello everyone I am a new user on the site. I have a few question for those that are medical assistants in the army. 

I wanted to know for those working on the reserve at 25 fd amb in Borden how were you able to do your training, how long did it take you to get your training completed and if you are a full time student how did the timings of training work with your school schedule? Also for the females what is it like working in the army specifically for those in the health care reserves?

Thank you.


----------



## Treemoss

Just curious. Do you mean a physician's assistant or, just your everyday medical tech?


----------



## ColtGreenhorn

Medical Assistant, it's a reserve only trade. I only know this as I was going to apply for this position but sadly I am not able to answer any of those questions as I am still debating trade choices.


----------



## mariomike

mega_chichi2 said:
			
		

> I have a few question for those that are medical assistants in the army.



These are a sampling of discussions you may find of interest. As you can see, when searching the topic, sometimes incorrect terms are used. That in itself has been a frequent topic of conversation.  

Med Tech in the Reserves  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/90164.0

Medical Assistant  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/4238.75.html

MEDICAL TECHNICIAN RESERVE?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/92991.0


----------



## mega_chichi2

Thank you all for the comments. I have been receiving calls from the sergeant in charge at the stated location, but I can never find an appropriate time to contact him as I work and he is usually not in the office for long. I just really want to know if I should be pursuing this field of work if I am still going to be in school.


----------



## Treemoss

What's your educational/job background if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## mega_chichi2

Treemoss said:
			
		

> What's your educational/job background if you don't mind me asking.



I am going to be repeating second year of nursing school. It is the four year RN program. I do have a health science background so hopefully that is grounds for approval?


----------



## Staff Weenie

I would think that with your current educational background, you probably already meet the requirements for Medical Assistant (MOSID 00150) in the Reserves.

You need:  Gr. 11 Ontario or provincial equivalent (Québec Sec IV equivalent for all courses) with an Academic Profile to include Gr. 11 Biology, Gr. 10 Chemistry or Physics, and Gr. 10 Mathematics (Quebec Sec IV, Math 426, or 436).  For the Gr 11 Bio, they want to see General Biology or Human Biology equivalent. For Quebec: Biology: Sec III (314), or Sec IV (534), or Biologie Humaine 101-901 (distance education- Cegep level).

You also need to meet the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) cut-off of the 20th percentile on the Problem Solving Scale.

And finally, you have to past the FORCE (fitness) Test.


----------



## mega_chichi2

Staff Weenie said:
			
		

> I would think that with your current educational background, you probably already meet the requirements for Medical Assistant (MOSID 00150) in the Reserves.
> 
> You need:  Gr. 11 Ontario or provincial equivalent (Québec Sec IV equivalent for all courses) with an Academic Profile to include Gr. 11 Biology, Gr. 10 Chemistry or Physics, and Gr. 10 Mathematics (Quebec Sec IV, Math 426, or 436).  For the Gr 11 Bio, they want to see General Biology or Human Biology equivalent. For Quebec: Biology: Sec III (314), or Sec IV (534), or Biologie Humaine 101-901 (distance education- Cegep level).
> 
> You also need to meet the Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) cut-off of the 20th percentile on the Problem Solving Scale.
> 
> And finally, you have to past the FORCE (fitness) Test.



Thank you for the reply. The recruiting office says that the process to beginning application is about 3 months and then after that is BMQ. Does it really take 3 months? I want to be able to complete this before university starts again for me. Also how would BMQ work if I am in school full time?


----------



## mariomike

mega_chichi2 said:
			
		

> Also how would BMQ work if I am in school full time?



Reserves offer BMQ during summer, or on weekends. Many Reservists are students, or have full-time jobs. 

Difference between reserve's part-time BMQ and summer full-time BMQ?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/109707.0

There is a lot of Reserve BMQ information on this site.


----------



## mega_chichi2

mariomike said:
			
		

> Reserves offer BMQ during summer, or on weekends. Many Reservists are students, or have full-time jobs.
> 
> Difference between reserve's part-time BMQ and summer full-time BMQ?
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/109707.0
> 
> There is a lot of Reserve BMQ information on this site.



I remember reading somewhere that it can be completed on the weekends. Not sure if that was related to the BMQ or the actual reserve trade training.


----------



## Staff Weenie

Weekend BMQ courses are run in some areas.

QL3 Medical Assistant is only run in the summers at the school in Borden.


----------



## mariomike

mega_chichi2 said:
			
		

> I remember reading somewhere that it can be completed on the weekends.



A Reservist Weekend BMQ 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/81390.0


----------



## mega_chichi2

mariomike said:
			
		

> A Reservist Weekend BMQ
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/81390.0



Thank you for the link very informative. Quick question how do you know which trades have BMQ on the weekends or only in the summer?


----------



## Hauloo

From what I've read online about Medical Technicians and Medical Assistant, they seem to be very similar jobs.
It seems that they may start off with slightly different training and focuses but after they've become much more competent at the job that they're doing nearly or exactly the same thing.

With Med A's doing:
"Provide initial care for patients;
Provide basic life support treatments in trauma cases;
Assisting with health assessments (to include: perform electrocardiograms; conduct hearing and vision tests; assist with immunizations; collect specimens and perform basic laboratory procedures);
Perform specific environmental health and preventive medicine duties;
Initiate, maintain and distribute medical records, documents, reports and returns
Provide medical support on weapons ranges and during training exercises;
Operate and maintain medical and life-support equipment;
Maintain, replenish and account for general and medical supplies; and,
Conduct first aid, medical and military training."

And Med Tech's doing:
"Provide initial care for patients
In trauma cases, provide basic life support treatments
Prescribe some medications in accordance with their scope of practice
Provide medical support during environmental operations
Recover casualties from the point of injury and transport them to a medical facility by wheeled or tracked ambulance, or by air
Participate in rescues from crashed vehicles, tanks, ships, aircraft and damaged buildings
Give basic advice on disease prevention, hygiene and sanitation
Perform specific environmental health and preventive medicine duties
Collect specimens and perform basic laboratory procedures
Operate and maintain medical and life-support equipment
Perform electrocardiograms and audiograms
Initiate, maintain and distribute medical records, documents, reports and returns
Maintain, replenish and account for general and medical supplies"

They share a lot of similar characteristics
Even into possible civilian job options:

Med A:
"Emergency Medical Responder
Ambulance and First Aid Attendant
Registered Nursing Assistant
Licensed Practical Nurse
Hospital Orderly"

Med Tech:
"Primary Care Paramedic
Emergency Medical Attendant
Ambulance and First Aid Attendant
Registered Nursing Assistant
Licensed Practical Nurse"

However, I'm curious from individuals whom have served if they are actually that similar? On their downtime do they do the same things? Is training and what they do in the field so similar that they are doing the same job with different titles?
What exactly are the differences?

Thank you for your time.


----------



## sarahsmom

Med A's are reserves only. There are no Med As in the Reg Force anymore.
Med Techs are PCP qualified (paramedics). You cannot be a Med Tech unless you get you PCP qualifications (either on your own or through the forces).


----------



## Hauloo

Ah, I see. Thank you very much for the reply.
I do not currently make all the requirements for Med Tech, would it be odd if I apply for Med A and spend time in there as a reserve force member until I reach the requirements for Med Tech and attempt to do a transfer?
Getting a college diploma and Primary Care Paramedic Level 1 Certificate on my own time and own money that is.


----------



## mariomike

Hauloo said:
			
		

> would it be odd if I apply for Med A and spend time in there as a reserve force member until I reach the requirements for Med Tech and attempt to do a transfer?



This may help,

Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
http://army.ca/forums/threads/12797.100



			
				Hauloo said:
			
		

> Getting a college diploma and Primary Care Paramedic Level 1 Certificate on my own time and own money that is.



See also,

Medical Technician - Unskilled, Semi-skilled, Skilled Application  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/81858.100


----------



## Hauloo

Oh, I see. Thank you.
And in the requirements it states college diploma, but when I search it up specific colleges say college certificate or college degree are these the same things that the forces will looked at or is there a specific preference?


----------



## mariomike

Hauloo said:
			
		

> Oh, I see. Thank you.



You are welcome. Good luck.  



			
				Hauloo said:
			
		

> And in the requirements it states college diploma, but when I search it up specific colleges say college certificate or college degree are these the same things that the forces will looked at or is there a specific preference?



I don't know which province you are in, but in Ontario it is a two-year diploma program to challenge the AEMCA exam required to be licenced as a Primary Care Paramedic ( PCP).

Humber College Paramedic program
http://www.humber.ca/program/paramedic
"Humber’s Paramedic diploma program..."

Centennial College Paramedic program
http://www.centennialcollege.ca/programs-courses/full-time/paramedic/
"Credential: Diploma"

There is also a Paramedic degree program at the University of Toronto,
http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/jtprogs/paramedicine
"Students in Paramedicine earn an Honours Bachelor of Science degree and an Ontario College Diploma".

_As always,_ best to contact Recruiting before enrolling in any Paramedic program.

Sergeant Laen would be a good person to ask.
http://army.ca/forums/members/51867

See also, 

Ask a CAF Recruiter: Med Tech Hiring Question  
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/118114/post-1408432.html#msg1408432


----------



## Hauloo

I'm in University, 2nd year and on the application page it's asking for my education.
I selected my university and it's asking for diploma received.
I haven't received it yet, do I just take out my university information and put only my highschool?


----------



## mariomike

Hauloo said:
			
		

> I'm in University, 2nd year and on the application page it's asking for my education.
> I selected my university and it's asking for diploma received.
> I haven't received it yet, do I just take out my university information and put only my highschool?



This may help,

When Applying Online, Can I Update My Application At A Later Date?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/105541.0

Level of education?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/104065.0


----------



## Hauloo

The next page of the application was current education/skills so I put it in there, thank you for your quick response.
Anyways, I've submitted my application and I guess I just have to sit and wait now.
How long will you think it'll take for them to get back to me?


----------



## mariomike

Hauloo said:
			
		

> thank you for your quick response.



You are welcome. Good luck.  



			
				Hauloo said:
			
		

> Anyways, I've submitted my application and I guess I just have to sit and wait now.
> How long will you think it'll take for them to get back to me?



This may help,

From Ask a CAF Recruiter,
I submitted my application. Whats Next????  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/118929.0

See also,

TIMINGS - ESTIMATED TIMES FOR_______________  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/81054.0/nowap.html


----------



## Hauloo

For anyone wondering how things went, I was contacted about 2-3 days afterward and was given about 11-13 documents that I needed to fill out.

The next day I was contacted specifically about the sub-component reserve I wanted to join.
Filling out the forms, I had to order my transcripts and contact past employers I've had the past 5 years. Ordering the transcripts is taking another 3-5 days, and I only just got them yesterday.

I'm still waiting to receive notifications from my references, upon which I will schedule a meeting.

All in all, the whole process took about 8 days after submitting my application.


----------



## Hauloo

So I went to the interview,
I didn't do so well, I thought that the interview would follow this format:

To prepare for the interview, we suggest that you:

"_Research the jobs you have listed on your application.
List the reasons you chose those jobs.
Review your resume and be prepared to talk about your work history.
Summarize your education and any other activities you have been involved in.
Read the section “Life in the CF” and “Basic Training.”
Prepare answers to the following common questions:
Where does basic training take place? For how long?
Where does the occupational training take place for the jobs you are interested in?
How long will you be in training before you are completely qualified?
What is the role of your preferred job in the Forces?
Where might you serve?
What do you like about the jobs you listed on the application?
What are the negative elements of the jobs you listed on the application?

Put some thought into what you will wear and how you want to present yourself.
Give yourself time to arrive 10 to 15 minutes early so you can relax before the interview._"
(From Step Five for applying to the forces, http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100)

However there were more questions such as:

Whom is The Minister of National Defence? (Which I am ashamed to say I did not know was Harjit Sajjan at the time)
Along with all these other titles that I couldn't but a name to.
Along with questions such as, name a morally difficult time that presented itself to you that you solved and what your thought process was?

Thus, I was told to come back in about 4 months, however; I'm curious if there are more questions that I may better prepare myself for the next interview?

Any help would be appreciated, thank you very much.


----------



## mariomike

Hauloo said:
			
		

> I'm curious if there are more questions that I may better prepare myself for the next interview?



This may help,

Interview advice (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/12755.325
16 pages.

Interview Tomorrow  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/101073.0
2 pages.

Interview Questions 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/116512.0

the way the interveiw works. (question) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/78363.0
2 pages.

Interview
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+interview&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=WE23Vt0nqoLxB6HnmegH&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+++interview+

WHAT SHOULD I WEAR?!?!?!  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/97112.100
5 pages.

What did you wear to your interview? 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/464.0

What to wear to the Interview.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/35806.0

etc...


----------



## smallpunk

Hey there!

I'm currently majoring in neuroscience in university, and I am on the track to medical school. I've been interested in the military since high school, and have only just started looking into it. There is a Health Services Reserve Unit in my city, and they have positions available for medical assistants and technicians. I am very interested in applying.

My question is regarding the training. I understand basic training occurs in the summer, but it seems both these medical positions require an abundance of additional training. How would I go about doing this as a university student? Does it occur in subsequent summers, or am I expected to take time off school? As a pre-med student my academics are my first priority.

Also, which position would be the more fulfilling and hands-on position? I would love to experience as much of the medical field as I can before med school, to be truly sure this is the pathway I want to take, and to also be as prepared as I can be for my future as a doctor/surgeon (if I get that far, haha).

Thanks in advance!


----------



## sarahsmom

Med A is for reservists, Med Tech is Reg F.
The difference is primarily PCP. If you are a licensed paramedic, you can be a Med tech in the reserves, otherwise you will be a Med A.
In general, they do the same job, although the tech will have a broader scope on ex's and op's.
Reserve 3s are usually done in the summer in Borden. BMQ (basic) can be done on weekends throughout the year, or over the summer. But you can't do your trades training with BMQ, and you won't do much with the unit until you are at least BMQ qualified.


----------



## smallpunk

paleomedic said:
			
		

> Med A is for reservists, Med Tech is Reg F.
> The difference is primarily PCP. If you are a licensed paramedic, you can be a Med tech in the reserves, otherwise you will be a Med A.
> In general, they do the same job, although the tech will have a broader scope on ex's and op's.
> Reserve 3s are usually done in the summer in Borden. BMQ (basic) can be done on weekends throughout the year, or over the summer. But you can't do your trades training with BMQ, and you won't do much with the unit until you are at least BMQ qualified.


Thank you! 

So could I, in theory, do basic training one summer, then my next training the following summer, etc etc, until I am qualified? 

Is there potential to go from Med Assistant to Technician if I became a licensed paramedic later on down the road?


----------



## mariomike

smallpunk said:
			
		

> Is there potential to go from Med Assistant to Technician if I became a licensed paramedic later on down the road?



Your profile does not indicate your location.

Paramedicine is provincially regulated. Requirements and issue of a licence to practice are set by the individual regulators. 

For licensure as a Primary Care Paramedic ( PCP ) in Ontario,

Requirements 

In Ontario, high school graduates who wish to become a paramedic must attend a recognized college Paramedic program. Almost all college Paramedic programs are 2 years ( full-time ) in length. 
 

Generally colleges require the following prior to the start of their program: 

•Current Standard First Aid (or equivalent) certificate
•Current CPR (C) - Basic Rescuer level (or equivalent) certificate
•Senior Biology high school course (grade 11 or higher)
•Senior Science high school course (other than biology)
•High School graduation diploma
•Class 'F' Drivers License - Ontario
•Current Immunizations (including Hepatitis B, Chicken Pox -if needed-, & flu shot recommended)
•Be Communicable Disease free
•Be physically fit & able to lift
•Possess good communication skills & be able to fluently read & write English (French also required for francophone programs)
•Be at least 18 years old prior to beginning preceptorship (on-the-job) training
Information on the A-EMCA provincial certification exam 

Upon completion of the college Primary Care Paramedic program, graduates are eligible to write the Advanced Emergency Medical Care Assistant (A-EMCA) examination. Candidates for the A-EMCA are offered 3 attempts to successfully pass (70% required) the exam before remedial training is required & may work for an ambulance service for up to 210 days while preparing. 

If you are attending an approved institution that offers the paramedic program, your institution should be contacting the MOHLTC-EHS Branch office to obtain application packages for all of their students, prior to graduating. 

For more information on the A-EMCA, contact: 

Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care
Emergency Health Services Branch
Patient Care Standards, Education and Certification5700 Yonge Street, 6th Floor
North York, ON M2M 4K5
Tel #: (416) 327-7813 Fax #416) 327-7911
Toll Free 1-800-461-6431 

See also,

Med Tech in the Reserves  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/90164.0

Reserves as a Med-Tech... already trained as a paramedic?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/39778.0

Medical Assistant reserve trade prior to medical school, or not? 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/114818.0

QL3 reserve medtech to ACP EMT-A
https://army.ca/forums/threads/96552.0

Medical Assistant  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/4238.75.html

MEDICAL TECHNICIAN RESERVE?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/92991.0

Medical Assistant in Ontario  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/119320.0

Medical Technician versus Medical Assistant  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/111801.0

Curious About Joining Reserves  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/107418.0
OP: "I've been debating about joining the reserves as a Medical Technician."

etc...

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## JMei001

I'd like to thank everyone that offered, interjected their help, insight and experience into helping me decide on the following; I'm currently in the recruiting process of getting into the 51st fld ambulance as a medical assistant, as I have an eventual goal of going to med school/becoming a med officer in the long run.

From everyone I've spoken too, the role and duties of a Med A aren't too clear and concise. I've also been told being in the infantry and doing TCCC is equivalent to being a Med A. My main interest is a medical based trade although I am also quite interested in infantry related business since it appeals to me as a more fulfilling 'army' experience. I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to stick with Med A and be surrounded in a medical network/clinical environment, which aligns well with my application to med school, or go with infantryman w/ TCCC.

(P.S. this is for reserve while I complete a B.Sci)

Once again, thank you!! 



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----------



## mariomike

JMei001 said:
			
		

> I've also been told being in the infantry and doing TCCC is equivalent to being a Med A.



For reference,

Tactical combat casualty care ( TCCC ) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/26415.475.html
20 pages.

Medical Assistant - Reserve  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/4238.0.html
10 pages.



			
				JMei001 said:
			
		

> or go with infantryman w/ TCCC.



You may wish to ask how likely it will be, and how long you will have to wait, for PRes Infantry TCCC.


----------



## medicineman

No, a Med A or Med Tech isn't the same as an infanteer with TCCC.

MM


----------



## JMei001

medicineman said:
			
		

> No, a Med A or Med Tech isn't the same as an infanteer with TCCC.
> 
> MM


So basically Med A does a lot more clinical, and medical procedures than an infanteer w/ TCCC?


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----------



## medicineman

Yeah, and spends a lot more time and depth in training.

MM


----------



## PuckChaser

TCCC is a course designed to be used on the battlefield to assist the med tech in a casualty collection point, or in extremis perform life-saving interventions when a med tech is not available/delayed. Its a 2 week course and is not a replacement for a properly trained Med Tech/Med A.

If you want to do medical stuff, be a Med A/Tech.


----------



## JMei001

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> TCCC is a course designed to be used on the battlefield to assist the med tech in a casualty collection point, or in extremis perform life-saving interventions when a med tech is not available/delayed. Its a 2 week course and is not a replacement for a properly trained Med Tech/Med A.
> 
> If you want to do medical stuff, be a Med A/Tech.


Nice! That's more of an answer I was looking for, I was looking If there was a way to get the best of both worlds. Is there a link that points out the curriculum of Med A, showing what procedures they're taught?


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----------



## ModlrMike

In addition to the other answers, TCCC had for the most part been "just in time" training. Unless you were going to be deployed, you probably wouldn't get it as a reservist infanteer.


----------



## mariomike

mariomike said:
			
		

> You may wish to ask how likely it will be, and how long you will have to wait, for PRes Infantry TCCC.





			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> The chances of a reservist who is not deploying getting a TCCC course is slim to none and slim just walked out the door.





			
				JMei001 said:
			
		

> Is there a link that points out the curriculum of Med A, showing what procedures they're taught?



Medical Assistant Questions and Answers are here,

Medical Assistant - Reserve  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/4238.0.html
10 pages.


----------



## MedCorps

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> In addition to the other answers, TCCC had for the most part been "just in time" training. Unless you were going to be deployed, you probably wouldn't get it as a reservist infanteer.



Also the target for those deploying with the training is 1 in 10.  As such, you roll the dice their also that you will not be the guy picked up for the specialty course. 

The Med A's prehospital skill set is that of an Emergency Medical Responder with some additional military protocols that include such things like IV's, catheter insertion, supraglottic airway, epinephrine, needle decompression, haemostatic gauze, tourniquet, intraosseous insertion, pelvic binders, ibuprofen, acetaminophen, tetracaine, moxifloxacin, glucose gel and CBRN protocols. 

They also gain skills in primary health care (clinic medicine) and in-patient care as well as medical service specific field skills and how to run / work in a medical clinic.  

MC


----------



## JMei001

MedCorps said:
			
		

> Also the target for those deploying with the training is 1 in 10.  As such, you roll the dice their also that you will not be the guy picked up for the specialty course.
> 
> The Med A's prehospital skill set is that of an Emergency Medical Responder with some additional military protocols that include such things like IV's, catheter insertion, supraglottic airway, epinephrine, needle decompression, haemostatic gauze, tourniquet, intraosseous insertion, pelvic binders, ibuprofen, acetaminophen, tetracaine, moxifloxacin, glucose gel and CBRN protocols.
> 
> They also gain skills in primary health care (clinic medicine) and in-patient care as well as medical service specific field skills and how to run / work in a medical clinic.
> 
> MC


This is amazing, this is exactly the information I've been looking for for some time now that I feel the forums was lacking. Hopefully this helps future Med A's get answers.

Thank you so much.
Best regards,
J


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----------



## pitawanakwat.pm

How long is the course for me? What am I excluded from?


----------



## JMei001

Hey guys, (I've used the search function already, past posts related to some of my questions are deleted or inaccessible)

I'm almost done the recruiting process as a Med A but a close friend who's ex military tells me that as a Med A in a Fd Amb unit, you unfortunately get a whole lot of nothing done in terms of clinical experience. He says I'm better off joining the infantry to focus my experience on leadership and communication, and applying to learn TCCC, rather than joining a Med A and not applying my skills ever. He says the only way I'll be useful is if I get attached to a combat arms unit.

I do believe that being a Med A in a fd amb will put me in a a good environment socially for networking (being surrounded by healthcare practitioners), health knowledge, and will still get the leadership?

I'm also applying to med school so as much as the military is something I really want to do wholeheartedly, I also would like to align it properly with future endeavours down the line.


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----------



## mariomike

JMei001 said:
			
		

> He says I'm better off joining the infantry to focus my experience on leadership and communication, and applying to learn TCCC, rather than joining a Med A and not applying my skills ever.




See,
Reply #232 
OP: JMei001
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/4238/post-1494199.html#msg1494199


			
				JMei001 said:
			
		

> I've also been told being in the infantry and doing TCCC is equivalent to being a Med A. My main interest is a medical based trade although I am also quite interested in infantry related business since it appeals to me as a more fulfilling 'army' experience. I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to stick with Med A and be surrounded in a medical network/clinical environment, which aligns well with my application to med school, or go with infantryman w/ TCCC.


----------



## JMei001

mariomike said:
			
		

> See,
> Reply #232
> OP: JMei001
> http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/4238/post-1494199.html#msg1494199


Haha crap! You're right I forgot I posted about that. I guess I'm having difficulty finding a real answer about what it's going to be like once I start and if I'll actually use the stuff I learn on people


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----------



## kratz

JMei001 said:
			
		

> Haha crap! You're right I forgot I posted about that. I guess I'm having difficulty finding a real answer about what it's going to be like once I start and if I'll actually use the stuff I learn on people



Our volunteers belong to multiple sites. If, and when they want to reply to question(s), they will.


----------



## Loachman

JMei001 said:
			
		

> past posts related to some of my questions are deleted or inaccessible



Likely because threads have been merged.


----------



## JMei001

Hey,

What courses are taken during QL4 of medical assistant?

Also, I'm not sure how it works in the military about getting loaded onto courses, but are there opportunities/courses to learn different forms of healthcare, in different environments and new techniques?


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----------



## mariomike

JMei001 said:
			
		

> Also, I'm not sure how it works in the military about getting loaded onto courses, but are there opportunities/courses to learn different forms of healthcare, in different environments and new techniques?



Medical Assistant
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/career-options/fields-work/health-care/medical-assistant.html
See "Specialty training".


----------



## MedCorps

JMei001 said:
			
		

> Hey,
> 
> What courses are taken during QL4 of medical assistant?



RQL4 Medical Assistant is a course unto itself. You will continue to learn the craft of being a Medical Assistant building on what you learned on RQL3 the summer or course before. More advanced pre-hospital care / combat medical skills, field skills and nursing skills are included in the RQL4 curriculum. 

MC


----------



## JMei001

MedCorps said:
			
		

> RQL4 Medical Assistant is a course unto itself. You will continue to learn the craft of being a Medical Assistant building on what you learned on RQL3 the summer or course before. More advanced pre-hospital care / combat medical skills, field skills and nursing skills are included in the RQL4 curriculum.
> 
> MC


Very cool. Thanks. I found the site talks about 'specialty training", however those are QL5 options I believe since PCP training is included in the list, that's why I was wondering about QL4, don't see any info on that anywhwre


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----------



## MedCorps

Medical Assistants do not do the PCP training, that is for Medical Technicians (who do it on their QL3) and the primary training differentiation between the two trades. 

Not much medical specialty (specialty sub-specification) training for a Medical Assistant.  

Basic - International Trauma Life Support is one that jumps out as fairly common. Some non-medical SS training such as Basic Winter Warfare, Army Driver Wheeled, Army Dismounted Tactical Communication Course, Army mounted Tactical Communication Course, Unit Storesman Course are ones that come to mind that I have been seeing occasionally run by the Res F field ambulances. 

MC


----------



## JMei001

Awesome. Are there courses like winter medicine type stuff, the equivalent of winter warfare for medical trades?

Also on the DND website linked above by MarioMike, it says;
Medical Assistant training consists of six areas of practice, namely: Prehospital Care; Operational Casualty Care; Medical Service Specific Field Skills; Primary Care; Administration and Clinic Support; and In-Patient Care.

Med As may be offered the opportunity to develop specialized skills through formal courses and on-the-job training, including:

Primary Care Paramedic Course (qualified individuals will have an opportunity to be selected to take this training)
Medical Supply Training (order and maintain medical supplies within the CAF)
In-Patient Care Training (provide short-term care for patients in a holding facility)

-- What about the In-Patient care training, Medical Supply Training?


----------



## mariomike

JMei001 said:
			
		

> Also on the DND website linked above by MarioMike, it says;
> Medical Assistant training consists of six areas of practice, namely: Prehospital Care; Operational Casualty Care; Medical Service Specific Field Skills; Primary Care; Administration and Clinic Support; and In-Patient Care.
> 
> Med As may be offered the opportunity to develop specialized skills through formal courses and on-the-job training, including:
> 
> Primary Care Paramedic Course (qualified individuals will have an opportunity to be selected to take this training)
> Medical Supply Training (order and maintain medical supplies within the CAF)
> In-Patient Care Training (provide short-term care for patients in a holding facility)



Paramedicine is provincially regulated. Requirements and issue of a licence to practice are set by the individual regulators.

In Ontario,
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ehs/qa/edu_qa.html


----------



## MedCorps

The area of Prehospital Care; Operational Casualty Care; Medical Service Specific Field Skills; Primary Care; Administration and Clinic Support; and In-Patient Care are covered on the RQL3, RQL4 and RQL6A courses as sections within the course training plan. 

Prehospital Cold Weather Medicine is a formal course, but seldom run, unfortunately as it is a really good course. More often than not, cold weather medicine will be covered in ad hoc lectures and training and not in a formal course. 

Medical supply course is on the books, but never run.  Once again, unfortunately. Training in medical supply will be on-the-job.  

PCP training is a course, contracted to a civilian college (in New Brunswick) to teach and will convert a Medical Assistant RQL4 to a Medical Technician QL3 if one takes it.  

In-patient care training is also ad hoc after one gets it on the modules on the RQL4 and RQL6A. More in vogue now under the topic Prolonged Field Care (PFC).  No formal Specialty Specification course. There was hopes that the 1 Canadian Field Hospital - Bedside Care Program would go national and become a formal course, but that never happened.  

Other medical specialties found, like Forward Aeromedical Evacuation, Medical Evacuation Crew member, etc are generally only found in the Regular Force, but sometimes you will get a Res F Med A / Med Tech on them.  

MC


----------



## JMei001

MedCorps said:
			
		

> The area of Prehospital Care; Operational Casualty Care; Medical Service Specific Field Skills; Primary Care; Administration and Clinic Support; and In-Patient Care are covered on the RQL3, RQL4 and RQL6A courses as sections within the course training plan.
> 
> Prehospital Cold Weather Medicine is a formal course, but seldom run, unfortunately as it is a really good course. More often than not, cold weather medicine will be covered in ad hoc lectures and training and not in a formal course.
> 
> Medical supply course is on the books, but never run.  Once again, unfortunately. Training in medical supply will be on-the-job.
> 
> PCP training is a course, contracted to a civilian college (in New Brunswick) to teach and will convert a Medical Assistant RQL4 to a Medical Technician QL3 if one takes it.
> 
> In-patient care training is also ad hoc after one gets it on the modules on the RQL4 and RQL6A. More in vogue now under the topic Prolonged Field Care (PFC).  No formal Specialty Specification course. There was hopes that the 1 Canadian Field Hospital - Bedside Care Program would go national and become a formal course, but that never happened.
> 
> Other medical specialties found, like Forward Aeromedical Evacuation, Medical Evacuation Crew member, etc are generally only found in the Regular Force, but sometimes you will get a Res F Med A / Med Tech on them.
> 
> MC


You sir are amazing, once again thank you for your info!!


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----------



## Jiminito

My apologies if this has already been answered.
What exactly is the difference between Medical Assistant and Medical Technician? 
Is training the same? Is job the same?
This is what I understand so far, please correct me if I'm wrong:
-Med-Tech is a trade for Regular Forces
-You can be a Med-Tech in the Reserves only if you are licensed as a Civilian Paramedic
-Med-A is a trade for the Reserve Forces
-You do not need to be a paramedic or be licensed if you are a Med-A
-Both trades go through the same training in the CF, QL3, QL4, QL6A, QL6B?
I've also read somewhere that they're trying to merge the two trades into just Med-A, is this true?


----------



## mariomike

Jiminito said:
			
		

> What exactly is the difference between Medical Assistant and Medical Technician?



This may help,

Medical Technician ( Med Tech )
https://army.ca/forums/threads/28820.475.html
20 pages.



			
				Jiminito said:
			
		

> -Med-A is a trade for the Reserve Forces



Yes.


----------



## kratz

Yes: Primary Reserve (Pres)
00150 Medical Assistant (AKA MED A)
- 00150 goes through their stream of BMQ, QL3, QL4, PLQ +

No. 
BMQ and PLQ might be the same, but the (QL) trades training are different.


Yes: Regular Force 
00334 Medical Technician 
- 00334 goes through their stream of BMQ, QL3, QL4, PLQ +
No: after paramedic school, it’s rare for Med Tech to choose to pay to maintain the qual, due to military life


----------



## mariomike

kratz said:
			
		

> No: after paramedic school, it’s rare for Med Tech to choose to pay to maintain the qual, due to military life





			
				Adam said:
			
		

> Until the CoC gets serious about providing real MCSP for Medics (that EHS in Canada will honor),  most Medics will not be able to maintain a licence.



Licensure of paramedics is the responsibility and domain of the various provincial regulatory bodies. Consult the provincial regulators for final decisions regarding practice. 

AEMCA is required for licensure as a Primary Care Paramedic ( PCP ) in Ontario. 



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> "The operator of a land ambulance service shall not employ a person to provide patient care, whether on a full-time or part-time basis, or engage a person to provide patient care as a full-time volunteer, unless the person is a paramedic who, holds the qualifications of an advanced emergency medical care assistant"
> http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_000257_e.htm#BK3
> 
> To obtain AEMCA, see Reply #2, and open the attachment.
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107868/post-1180343.html#msg1180343
> 
> "Back in 2007 the military approached the MOHLTC to accept their QL5 Med Techs if trained at JIBC, to be permitted to challenge the AEMCA. In the past the Ministry has permitted this, but has required an additional of 120 hrs minimum of field placement in Ontario.
> 
> To obtain these hours you could participate in a Med Tech Field Placement Program. Currently there are several Military Med Tech Field Placement Programs that have been implemented across Ontario. This Program offers Med Techs both QL3 and QL5 the opportunity to obtain these 120 hours, in addition to having the ability to be Temporarily Certified to perform Medical Directives consist ( sic ) with that of a Primary Care Paramedic in Ontario while doing their ride alongs. Some services that currently offer this program are: Ottawa, Toronto, Renfrew County, and possibly Simcoe County. There may be a couple other services that offer it as well."
> 
> Reply #6 discusses obtaining those 120 hours.
> 
> See attached .pdf from Ontario MOHLTC to CFMSS Commandant for reference.
> 
> See Reply #66
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/81858/post-1009607.html#msg1009607


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