# Cuts and changes in the CF



## Mud Crawler (28 Jan 2001)

With the cuts and changes coming rapidly, should i reconsider joining the CF??


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## echo (30 Jan 2001)

well,
from my perspective the more people that enlist-the more people that ottawa‘s gonna have to take care of, 
& with some 60,000 some odd guys(& girls) whom are enlisted its gonna force the government into a cornered position.
but i can be wrong on MANY levels here,so voice your obbjections to my *thoery*.


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## echo (30 Jan 2001)

well,
from my perspective the more people that enlist-the more people that ottawa‘s gonna have to take care of, 
& with some 60,000 some odd guys(& girls) whom are enlisted its gonna force the government into a cornered position.
but i can be wrong on MANY levels here,so voice your obbjections to my *thoery*.


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## Gunner (31 Jan 2001)

Mud Crawler, there are lots of opportunities and challenges for a young man or woman in the CF.  You will work with some of the greatest people you‘ve ever met.  Each occupation has different advantages and disadvantages and it will be up to you to decide what appeals to you more.

As far as the comments by all the whiners that inhabit this forum.  Don‘t let them turn you off an excellent career in the CF.   The CF is probably one of the only careers that will reward you based on the effort you put into it.  

PS - I‘m not sure what Echo is talking about.


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## JRMACDONALD (31 Jan 2001)

GUnner- Bang on. 
MUD- If youwant to join up, DO IT ! If you go NCM, a basic engagement is only three years of your life, if you go officer via RMC, you are looking at 11 years( but you have degree, and a lot of leadership/ management experience). In both cases you a re still young enough to start over.


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## kaspacanada (2 Feb 2001)

JOIN JOIN JOIN.  The more people DND has to take care of, train, and equip, the more money Ottawa will dump in.  (To a point; either they will, or the living conditions will go down the tubes - but I am sure (I hope) that they wouldn‘t let it get too bad)  I have looked into the CF for the last three years but was never settled long enough to get my application going.  I finished highschool in 97, and worked and travelled all across Canada.  This is the most wonderful counrty and it is an honour to serve.  There are many opportunities for CF members, I am only in the reserves until I satisfy the requirements for RMC or until I get a degree and apply as an officer.  Thinking about it is the first stage, you have to get out and DO IT.


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## McG (2 Feb 2001)

Change only brings new challenges, and challenge is what keeps things intresting.  And, don‘t be fooled; the ‘good‘ changes outwiegh the ‘bad.‘  We must always be redefining how we do things to stay with the times, and and being a part is almost as exciting as the job itself. almost.

Take Gunner‘s advice.  Join.


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## RCA (3 Feb 2001)

Mud- If you are thinking about not joining because of cutbacks etc you‘ll be making a big mistake if this is what you rally want to do. You will never find better group of people to work and play with than your platoon or company buddies. You will create bonds that will last for a lifetime. All the rest of can be put down to as "shit happens". so you put your head down and carry on. That is what duty means.

As to having more people will force the gov‘t to put in more money. Not true. the Canadian Forces has a paid ceiling and right now Ithink it is at 60,000 (I know sommeone will correct me if I‘m wrong) and the gov‘t will only fund to that. (poorly I might add, but we all know that)


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## Mud Crawler (4 Feb 2001)

Thanks alot guys for the answers.


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## 2 Charlie (5 Feb 2001)

Hi Mud Crawler,  

The only honesty that I can impart upon you is that if you wish to join,  then do so.  All I ask is that you talk to pers already in that trade and ask them to tell you the truth.  Unless you do, you shall never know the basics of what lay ahead of you.  It is nice to say go go go, but if those receiving you have a message, listen to it.

There are those who have tarred me with a brush here, so be it, reality bites, and truth hurts.  Check it out.  If it Sounds great, then guess what, if it doesn‘t, ask what is or does, they will tell you.

The CF is a good way to expand ones self, just make sure you are prepared.  The days of walking into CFRC and stating, "All I want to be is a sodier" are gone.  Do that one and they will reject your application.

Cheers,  hmm, do I hear my AN in the wings...


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## ocknod (8 Feb 2001)

Gunner....on target REPEAT!

Think about it guys, I have not heard about anyone getting downsized from the military...Once your in they gotta employ you...Join, I guarantee you‘ll be the better for it


SECURITAS
OCKNOD


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## Mud Crawler (10 Feb 2001)

2 Charlie, thats exactly what I‘m doing, right?


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## 2 Charlie (10 Feb 2001)

Hi MC,

Maybe I should have elaborated a little.

The days of walking and stating you wanted to be a soldier with a matching IQ and representative battery scores are gone.

I do fear that with the drive to fill the vacancies of late that this benchmark will be dropped, and then potentially we may see people with IQ‘s matching the MOC numbers joining up, like 011, 021, 031, etc.

Just a bit of outhouse humour, sorry.  Either way, you obviously have done well to get through selection.  The standards accross the board at present are pretty good.

Have fun.  

As for the comments with regards to numbers, pay etc.  The CDS has brought forward a couple of concepts for review that will make a  change in how we retain people.

One is similar to the US and UK, were if your position is deemed redundant you are let go, not moved.  This applies to base closeures, ships being paid off, etc.  If the job goes, so do you.

Look at the US after the Gulf War.  Units from Europe that deployed to the Gulf and served their country were literally disbanded as the cease fire happened.

The scale back in Europe was drawn up at the same time these units were mobilized.  As such when the cease fire happened, they were immediately rotated to the US and stood down.  Most troops did their out clearances in the Gulf region, and were civvies as they got off the planes.

If anyone is wondering, yes there were a lot of p‘d off yanks, but that is how they do business.  Some of the units were cascaded to the reserve order of battle and most of their active duty pers went with the units becoming reserves if they so chose.

So, can it happen here, why not, it is an easier system and more financially correct system, unlike the FRP‘s of the past ten years.  I just don‘t have much faith in some of our leaders to apply it properly.  We have a strange political influence that runs through the CF that I fear would benefit some electoral districts over others.  

But then again, maybe it‘s just me, this concludes my rant for the day.


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## Tom Barrett (18 Feb 2001)

Mud:  Join Up Now!  You‘ll work with some of the best people on gods green earth and despite the bull**** McLeans throws at us, this is the most equal oportunity job anyone will ever have.  We are currently almost 10000 pers short.  Over 350 in my trade alone.


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## Mud Crawler (19 Feb 2001)

I will.One Thing isn‘t clear in my mind and, if there‘s any recruiters or anyone who ever was, please shed light on my questions.I closed my file after failing the vision test( got 4 on 5 and i needed 3 for infantry but you probably all know that) because my new prescription for my gl***es were not up to date. Now they are.If I reopen my file( the same as if I had had a laser operation), would they make me p*** teh meds again?They said that if I came back and reopened my file after the laser eye surgery, they would make me p*** the meds, but if i just reopen it like that, without the eye surgery, would they still have to make me p*** teh meds, even if it was done shortly before Christmas(the closure of my file)??? Thanks to anyone who can help me on this, its just that I don‘t want to lose night vision capacity, thanks again.


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## McG (19 Feb 2001)

All the tests (written and medical) are good for a fixed amount of time.  I belive it is a year, but i don‘t know for sure.  If you p***ed them just before Christmas they will still be good now.  If you did not p*** them, as was the case when you failed your medical due to your eyes, you may have to redo the entire test.  In any event you will have to be retested for vision with your new gl***es.


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## Mud Crawler (21 Feb 2001)

so i just have to reopen my file and they will make me pa ss another test?


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## McG (21 Feb 2001)

Correct.  They will only retest you where you failed.  They may also want another interview, but if you get the same interviewer it should be short and sweet compared to the first.


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## Mud Crawler (21 Feb 2001)

Thx for you help McG


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## ender (28 Feb 2001)

the people at the recruiting centre‘s don‘t seem to be too smart.
last year, I joined as a private (reserves) in October and applied for RMC in March. (didn‘t get in, but it‘s more fun being a sapper anyway)

Even though it had only been a couple of months and I was in, they made me take my P.T. test again.  My intelligence test was still good.  They made me take my medical but then they figured out I was still in so they got my records from my unit.  It is my understanding that tests are good for 6 months if you are in the military, except for the inteligence which is good for a year.  However, the recruiting people will probably make you jump through all the hoops again.


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## Mud Crawler (1 Mar 2001)

This is so not Cost and Time effective.I mean unless i took 35 pounds, i dont think my meds will have improved or got worse.Oh yeah and i plan in a year to get dumber and maybe drop to an IQ of 65 duh!IQ is an intelligence test based on life experience basically and it can only improve.


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## Travis Silcox (1 Mar 2001)

cut these guys a break eh

anyone who seriously is into wieghtlifting or running or whatever, can tell you that 6 months makes ALOT of diffrence. 

And anyone who is concussion-prone, will tell you about IQ loss. Remember in Highschool when you saw those bright kids drop alot of Acid? 

And in extreme examples, teenagers tend to hit growing spurts, so if you got tested in Febuary and were 5‘6, you could be 5‘8 by August. 

Or in the reverse, if your workout routine consisted of training nights and walking to the kitchen your blood pressure would go up, or you decide to take up smoking, you would be much less fit then you were 6 months prior. if you don‘t workout for 2 weeks, you lose a good majority of fitness. 

please don‘t think i‘m ranting, just sticking up for the recruiting folks. 

Travis Silcox
P.S. Don‘t take that Apt Test lightly


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## ender (1 Mar 2001)

ok, but if I passed the P.T test in October, and was doing weekend QL2 till march, obviously my P.T. is still up to standard.


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