# Payment Inquiry



## swordfish2 (15 Jan 2009)

Everyones supposed to get payed today and on the 30th correct?
well i havint got one check yet since i was supposed to last month, i was hoping maybe i just had to wait a month but i guess not.
So what im hoping for was a number i could contact, so i dont have to wait 'till tuesday to speak with a clerk about it.

thanks


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Jan 2009)

Are you Reg Force, or PRes (different pay systems and programs).  Pay runs are the 15th and last day of the month, or on the Friday preceeding if those days fall on Saturday or Sunday.

And...you will likely have to speak to someone who does pay for your unit, as not all RMS clerks have access to the pay systems in a global manner, ie, they usually can't administer the pay for people not in their units UIC.

Oh, its a pay cheque.  FYI.


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## swordfish2 (15 Jan 2009)

I'm in the Pres, with 38th if it matters.

So I guess I will have to wait untill tuesday to speak with a clerk from there about it then?


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## Michael OLeary (15 Jan 2009)

Some banks don't process the pay into personal accounts until the end of the business day.  There's still time for it to appear in your account today.


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## CountDC (15 Jan 2009)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Some banks don't process the pay into personal accounts until the end of the business day.  There's still time for it to appear in your account today.



although they are not supposed to wait until then.

Sword: Doesn't your unit have a full time clerk? If you are actually waiting for a cheque then you would receive it on the closest training night to pay day.  I am taking a guess that you are actually waiting for a DFT to your bank account. I know - most people don't give a rats a** what you call it but when you talk to a clerk about your problem it does make a difference.  Anyway,  the number you can contact is your unit OR - they are the only one that can help you.


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Jan 2009)

swordfish2 said:
			
		

> I'm in the Pres, with 38th if it matters.
> 
> So I guess I will have to wait untill tuesday to speak with a clerk from there about it then?



Unless you worked between 15-31 Dec you will not have any pay this run.

01-15 Jan will show up at the end of Jan.


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## swordfish2 (15 Jan 2009)

okay i called and for some reason even though i was sworn in almost 3 months ago they did not process my bank info into the payroll until just the 7th of this month. so on the 31st it should all be coming in.
thanks for the help peeps =]


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## CountDC (16 Jan 2009)

swordfish2 said:
			
		

> okay i called and for some reason even though i was sworn in almost 3 months ago they did not process my bank info into the payroll until just the 7th of this month. so on the 31st it should all be coming in.
> thanks for the help peeps =]



Bloody slow clerks  ;D

Not to be a trouble maker (ok I am)  but....... If your money is not there at the end month then I would insist they process a local cheque request as you are entitled (key word) to receive your pay on pay day. No one should be waiting 3 months to receive pay these days.


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## geo (16 Jan 2009)

CountDC said:
			
		

> Bloody slow clerks  ;D
> 
> Not to be a trouble maker (ok I am)  but....... If your money is not there at the end month then I would insist they process a local cheque request as you are entitled (key word) to receive your pay on pay day. No one should be waiting 3 months to receive pay these days.


.... If nothing on the 30th or 31st.... ask for an ADVANCE... for the amount you are entitled to.


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## CountDC (16 Jan 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> .... If nothing on the 30th or 31st.... ask for an ADVANCE... for the amount you are entitled to.



No - not an advance.  Advances are for pay you are not already entitled to receive.  This is pay that he has already earned and should have received thus if the money is not in the account on the 30th (date he has agreed to by accepting the answer from the clerk) then he should be demanding they do a local pay issue.

Myself, I would have demanded my pay when I called them rather than waiting.  I also wonder about the clerks conduct as they knew he was due pay, knew he would not receive it on the mid month as they had not posted his info, so why did they not request a local payment for the 15th??


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## geo (16 Jan 2009)

IIRC, we are paid once a month on the 30th/31st ..... with an advance on the 15th


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## dapaterson (16 Jan 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> IIRC, we are paid once a month on the 30th/31st ..... with an advance on the 15th



Showing your age... that hasn't been the case since the late 90s.  With the introduction of RPSR, payments made are for attendance entered and approved.  Under the old RDS it was manual requests for advances for mid-month based on attendance to date entered on the RPDTs.

Thanks for the flashbacks


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## CountDC (16 Jan 2009)

and if you want to flashback far enough in the reserves we used to get paid once a month for the prior months attendance, pay was $28.10 for a full day and something like $13.65 for half day. We also had trades called admin and fin that always got along really good. >


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Jan 2009)

I remember being paid once a month, at the end of the month, paid in cash, signed the ledger and everything...

The best part was...your pay was a month behind, so the trng you did the first half of Sept, you'd get paid for at the end of Oct.

The grass IS greener now IMO...


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## dapaterson (16 Jan 2009)

CountDC said:
			
		

> and if you want to flashback far enough in the reserves we used to get paid once a month for the prior months attendance, pay was $28.10 for a full day and something like $13.65 for half day. We also had trades called admin and fin that always got along really good. >



And, in typical military fashion, the selection process went like this:

If you can count, you're Admin.  if you can read, you're Finance.


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## CountDC (16 Jan 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> And, in typical military fashion, the selection process went like this:
> 
> If you can count, you're Admin.  if you can read, you're Finance.



 :brickwall:  lol, that explains why I had to fire the private from my office after he screwed up 2 peoples pay - mine and the CO's


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## breezie (16 Jan 2009)

I'm still waiting to get paid, and I arrived at my unit in August. I've gotten a few "advances", but apparently there's a problem in Ottawa or something. You'd think someone could make a phone call and sort it out. Oh well, at least I'll eventually get a nice big paycheque! :-\


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## Nfld Sapper (16 Jan 2009)

breezie said:
			
		

> I'm still waiting to get paid, and I arrived at my unit in August. I've gotten a few "advances", but apparently there's a problem in Ottawa or something. You'd think someone could make a phone call and sort it out. Oh well, at least I'll eventually get a nice big paycheque! :-\



Small cheque, cause you forgot about all the advances you got.


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## breezie (17 Jan 2009)

It'll still be pretty big, the advances were only a portion of what I would have gotten, and I have only gotten a few since I arrived. C'est la vie I suppose. Hopefully it will all get sorted before I get promoted to Major (I'm an OCdt now)!


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## CountDC (19 Jan 2009)

breezie said:
			
		

> I'm still waiting to get paid, and I arrived at my unit in August. I've gotten a few "advances", but apparently there's a problem in Ottawa or something. You'd think someone could make a phone call and sort it out. Oh well, at least I'll eventually get a nice big paycheque! :-\



1.  They are not advances as you are already entitled to the pay.

2. You should be getting close to your full pay, not small portions.

3.  Ask for details on what the problem is, what action has been done to correct it and when they expect the problem to be resolved. Insist on an action plan and time line you can follow and that in the mean time they issue you your full pay.  To be honest most times I have heard the "problem in Ottawa" line it has actually been a problem at the unit and Ottawa knew nothing about it so I never trust it when a clerk uses that line.  It has always been too common for some unit clerks to put off the unit members by telling them that the problem is Brigade/Area/Ottawa. (showing age again) This peaked after the amalgamation as the fin/admin clerks could no longer blame it on each other (it's an admin problem, no it's a fin problem)


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## Teflon (19 Jan 2009)

breezie said:
			
		

> It'll still be pretty big, the advances were only a portion of what I would have gotten, and I have only gotten a few since I arrived. C'est la vie I suppose. Hopefully it will all get sorted before I get promoted to Major (I'm an OCdt now)!



OCdts get paid.... real money!!?  ;D (just kidding, sorry couldn't resist)


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## breezie (19 Jan 2009)

Teflon said:
			
		

> OCdts get paid.... real money!!?  ;D (just kidding, sorry couldn't resist)




Apparently not eh!! I'm going to go talk to them AGAIN today, wish me luck!


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Jan 2009)

If you don't get any headway, it might be time to involve someone in your CoC if you haven't already.  As an OCdt, you don't carry any weight in your unit yet, so if you get no response, I would take it up the CoC.  Pay is pay and no one should not get paid, even if they are  a *penny*.


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## breezie (20 Jan 2009)

Thanks. Our orderly room is going to call Ottawa again, but I'm not holding my breath. I did talk to my Captain about it before Xmas, and she said there's nothing that can be done except to wait. Terribly helpful.


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Jan 2009)

breezie said:
			
		

> Thanks. Our orderly room is going to call Ottawa again, but I'm not holding my breath. I did talk to my Captain about it before Xmas, and she said *there's nothing that can be done * except to wait. Terribly helpful.



I never accept that answer...but thats me.


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## CountDC (20 Jan 2009)

breezie said:
			
		

> Thanks. Our orderly room is going to call Ottawa again, but I'm not holding my breath. I did talk to my Captain about it before Xmas, and she said there's nothing that can be done except to wait. Terribly helpful.



and I call BS - there is always something that can and should be done.

Calling ottawa again?? How about emails for tracking? Did they tell you what the problem is? What have they done to resolve it? Have they informed the CoC of the problem?  After this length of time your CO should be aware there is a problem. You mentioned you started in Aug - 7 months!!  I could not imagine someone giving me such a song and dance and expecting me to take it. When I transferred from Res to Reg the clerk at base told me I might not get paid on pay day as I wouldn't be in the system on time.  Next day I was into the Chief's office and I did get paid on pay day - local cheque.

At minimum what they can do is raise a pay card and issue your full pay locally until the matter is resolved. Assuming the problem is Ottawa then they could and should be putting pressure on.  Why call the same people they already got no wheres with?  Get the name, get OC Name and draft a nice letter from the CO to the OC requesting an enquiry into the matter - often works wonders. 

Crap - this is po ing me - no one should ever have to wait for their pay.  When I think of all the things I have done to ensure people get their pay and then hear about this stuff it really winds me up. 

Wonder if it was their pay would they accept that answer?  Bet the Capt wouldn't and I'm sure the Clerks wouldn't.


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## breezie (20 Jan 2009)

Thanks for all the support guys, I appreciate it! It's nice to know I'm not nuts for thinking something could actually get done, and that my situation isn't normal! But actually, when I was talking to the MCpl in the pay office about it, one of the other clerks piped up and said that it took 7-8 months for her to get her pay, so it's not that uncommon. Another woman said it took about the same from when she transferred from reserves to reg force to start getting her proper pay. And as far as talking to my CO, basically at my unit, my Captain is it. I don't have access to anyone higher than her, and the rest of my CoC is aware of the problem, but as I'm not the only one in the same boat (there's about 20 of us out of several hundred having this issue), they don't seem to be willing to do much. At least they are going to organize 'advances' into my bank account directly, so I don't have to physically hand-carry money from my unit into town to deposit. As far as what the problem actually is, I've asked and asked, and no one is giving me any clear answers. Frustrating, but only being a brand new OCdt, I don't want to push my luck.


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## geo (20 Jan 2009)

Breezie, just because it took someone 7 months to have their paperwork processed properly does not mean you should be expected to endure the same.

what the problem is ?... ask for a copy of the explanation from the higher level of authority... you have a right to know & there is no reason for them to deny you that info.


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## breezie (20 Jan 2009)

I know, I don't care if it sometimes takes that long, it shouldn't. Thanks for the encouragement, I'll try asking again.


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## CountDC (21 Jan 2009)

Geo is right - just because one suffered does not mean everyone has to.

The clerk piping up about it taking 7-8 months for her to get paid deserves a kick in the arse - instead of using that as an excuse for others to have to wait she should have learned what went wrong in her case and taken action to prevent the same problem for others.  Seems to me the unit has a very negative attitude about taking care of people.  

For the woman that transferred to regs and had to wait for proper pay:  again, because she suffered others should?? Because either she did not take care of herself or had crappy clerks take care of her you should put up with it??

Without knowing all the details it is hard to advise fully how to proceed.  You could request a copy of your pers and pay file to see what, if anything, they have done.  It may have information on what the problem is. 

Understand about not wanting to push your luck as an OCdt but if done properly this could be a chance to shine a bit. Talk to the Capt and explain to her that the main frustration is the lack of communication. You have 20 members that have pay problems and no one is telling you what the problem is.  Suggest that perhaps the master Jack from the OR could give a small brief to you as a group explaining what the problem is and what the unit is doing to resolve it as a PR measure for clerks.  Explain that at the moment it appears that the clerks either don't know what they are doing or simply don't care (of course stress you are not saying this is true but that it is the appearance as info is not being passed). It would help if you could talk to some of the others that are having problems and get 1 or 2 to go with you - thus it takes away from the appearance that you are just a trouble maker.

When I ran the pay office (back when there were real fin clks to take care of you  >) we started a nice system that involved a pay form - worked amazing. If you had a problem with your pay on pay parade (going back a bit here) you went to another table, completed a form and passed it to the clerk.  After parade I went through the forms and assigned them to the clerk to deal with.  Now comes the part I am sure you will really like - the following week a copy of the form with an explanation of what the problem was and how we were dealing with it was sent back to you approved by me. One week was all the time the clerk had to get you an answer and "it is Ottawa" was not accepted. Not saying the problem was fixed in a week but you knew what the problem was and that we were fixing it.  If needed we were able to circumvent the system and get you your full pay for you. (as a side, less than 1% were problems due to the Fin Staff.  At the time the accepted standard on the QL3 Fin practical test was a 70% accuracy, down from 90% when I did it)

At least request to review your pay card so you can confirm the dates with your records (you do have a record, right?).  Check it every month and ensure they are giving you your full pay, not just small "take this and be happy" amounts. I can never stress it enough - a problem with the system does not justify under paying someone.  There are numerous ways to pay someone.  Hell, I and some coworkers were known to get the member a cashier cheque and then go to a branch of their bank to deposit it for them, sometimes the mbr didn't even know there was a problem.


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## breezie (21 Jan 2009)

Nope, no pay card. Apparently the problem is that I'm not even in the system - when they first enrolled our info, me and about 20 others got "bounced back out" for some reason, that now must get fixed by Ottawa. If the OR types my name or service number into their computer, nothing comes up. So, no way to check what I should be getting paid (although they did show me roughly what I would be getting, based on someone who's living in similar barracks to mine), and whether any mistakes have been made in deductions, etc since August. All I'm getting is, "We're keeping on top of Ottawa to make sure you get into the system as soon as possible." Bah. If any of you out there still have contacts in Ottawa who might be able to help, I'd love to hear!


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Jan 2009)

Something sounds real fishy there IMHO.


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## CountDC (21 Jan 2009)

breezie said:
			
		

> Nope, no pay card. Apparently the problem is that I'm not even in the system - when they first enrolled our info, me and about 20 others got "bounced back out" for some reason, that now must get fixed by Ottawa. If the OR types my name or service number into their computer, nothing comes up. So, no way to check what I should be getting paid (although they did show me roughly what I would be getting, based on someone who's living in similar barracks to mine), and whether any mistakes have been made in deductions, etc since August. All I'm getting is, "We're keeping on top of Ottawa to make sure you get into the system as soon as possible." Bah. If any of you out there still have contacts in Ottawa who might be able to help, I'd love to hear!



sigh

no pay card??? How are they tracking your attendance and what they pay you?  The fact that you are not in the system is not a valid excuse.  That is what pay cards are for (CF1 399 for Cl A, CF 886 for Cl B) - you enter the mbrs attendance for the pay period, calculate the gross pay and deductions, get the net pay and do a local payment for it.  Going off someone else's pay is what we call - lazy!! Don't see the problem there. Even reg f pay can be calculated, like we used to do (and occassionaly still do).  The fact that it has been seven months indicates to me that they are not keeping on top of it very well - who have they talked to in Ottawa?  How often? Is it the same person? Have they gone up the CoC?  By this time it should be at least the Admin O/Adjt or CO talking to at least the Oops chief.  Got to say right now from what you have posted I certainly do not have a very good picture of your units Admin and upper echelon.


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## breezie (21 Jan 2009)

Sigh indeed. I'm a full-time student, so I know our attendance gets reported to our Captain if we miss a class. Other than that, we have sign in/out procedures, lots of mandatory events, etc., so they always know where you are. So in theory, it should be really easy to calculate my pay, as other than rations and quarters, income tax, etc, there isn't really anything to deduct from our monthly pay.  Apparently its just not that easy, for whatever reason....


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## CountDC (21 Jan 2009)

breezie said:
			
		

> Sigh indeed. I'm a full-time student, so I know our attendance gets reported to our Captain if we miss a class. Other than that, we have sign in/out procedures, lots of mandatory events, etc., so they always know where you are. So in theory, it should be really easy to calculate my pay, as other than rations and quarters, income tax, etc, there isn't really anything to deduct from our monthly pay.  Apparently its just not that easy, for whatever reason....



Not that easy?? I have calculated Res part time and full time pay.  I have also done Reg pay too. I even did Reg F members out of country on OPs pay (lots of allowances there) so my answer is that it is that easy. 

Just to clarify as I do not recall you actually saying what is your employment status? I was leaning towards P Res but am now thinking Reg F but can not imagine a reg f mbr having so much difficulty.  I have heard the stories of mbrs that CT from P Res to Reg having trouble but have never understood as I have always managed to get them on the system with a couple phone calls.  Usually it was a call to a clerk in Ottawa who would tell me the problem, call the P Res unit to find out what their problem was and have it taken care of, back to Ottawa to inform them what transpired and get them to action as required.  Meanwhile I did a local payment to mbr for their pay.  Next pay mbr was on the system and paid the same as everyone else.
I still think they are doing something wrong that it is taking so long.  Plainly something does not smell right about this.


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## Eye In The Sky (21 Jan 2009)

2 years ago, when I CTd, my last day of RPSR pay was the 8th, first day of CCPS pay was the 9th.  When I went to clear in to Lounge-Point (I was at CFLRS when I CTd) to do my admin (HHT, etc), I requested my Reg Force pay for 9-15th on the 15th.  I left that day with my $ in hand.  It took them about 15 minutes to work their magic, and at that time, I hadn't even been entered into the CCPS pay system (my CT date was a Friday, and this was the following Monday morning, the 12th of Feb).

They then called me a week before the end of the month, to tell me I would have to go to the 5GSS OR/Det at CFLRS to pick up my local payment as my pay wasn't sorted out yet for end-Feb.  They even gave me a local payment amount that had 25% taxes taken just so I wouln't get dinged hard later.

So, it can be pretty easy.


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Jan 2009)

I've only had two pay problems in the last 9 yrs and I am P Res. One was moving from Class B to Class B contracts and the other one was someone forgot to click on the next screen to update my IPC. Both problems where solved with a quick phone call/email to the Unit FIN NCO. One resulted in a contingency payment and the other was a retro payment on the next pay period.

Clearly IMHO someone in your OR/UNIT has droped the ball big time.


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## geo (21 Jan 2009)

Been in for 35+ years & Even if I counted the number of times I had pay problems, I'd only need one hand... and I'd have lots of extra fingers not required.

The pay system is not difficult - it just requires that people stay on top of it.


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## breezie (21 Jan 2009)

I'm reg f, and have never been reserve. Some OCdts here were reservists, and had to wait a while to get their pay sorted out too, but even they have gotten dealt with by now, and we all reported here on the same date. Oh, when I said apparently it isn't easy, I meant that's based on what the OR is telling me. Seems pretty easy to figure out to me.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Jan 2009)

Print this thread and slip it under the door to their office in a plain brown wrapper.......


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## dapaterson (21 Jan 2009)

There are some real problems right now; a good friend of mine CT'd after his tour, started with the Reg F in October, and still isn't in the system.  I suspect these may be HRMS issues, since the HRMS records drive the CCPS pay actions.


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## Drag (21 Jan 2009)

I was on course with a mbr that went from PRes NCM to Reg Officer and it took them 8 months to get his pay sorted out, the whole time he was getting cheques cut the old fashioned way...  somebody is (still) dropping the ball big time


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## geo (21 Jan 2009)

DAP - you must be exagerating on some points - you have no friends >


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## CountDC (22 Jan 2009)

From my own experience and the other clerks I have talked to in the past the big problem was always that the Res unit had not published the release yet so the mbr could be taken into the Reg.  The ones I contacted it was always that the mbr had a debit balance on the system and they didn't know what to do so were waiting for the mbr to contact them and resolve the issue. The solution was simple - the contact here in Ottawa removed the debit from the Res side, unit published the release, Ottawa trans mbr to Reg and placed debit on there. This was in 2006/2007 when I did the pay.  Just don't understand why there is a big problem with these now.

Anyway - for the members involved such as Breezie I have a real problem with the fact that they are not told what the problem is or what is being done to resolve it, plus are given "advances" based on what someone else is getting.  Every member of the CF is entitled to receive their pay on pay day and it should be fully calculated out.  Last time I checked manual pay calculation was still taught on the RMS QL3 course. 

I also wonder how far up the chain of command the problem is known.  I remember when the Res was in the early stages of IRPPS the MGen and me had a friendly "argument" about the system.  One of the points he threw at me was that he had done rounds in the pay office the day before and the clerk for the HQ had told him everything was good.  He was not happy when I showed him my file of problem sheets I had submitted to Ottawa and pointed out that if everything was ok then why was I paying  so many people with locally raised cheques. No one had made him aware there was a problem until he talked to me - a lot of people were PO'd at me but boy did things start happening. 

Has anyone considered how this affects taxes?  Taxes are normally based on the year issued not the year earned so mbrs could end up paying more taxes than they normally would. In Breezie's case all the pay from Aug to Dec will be added to 2009 income for filing in 2010 (if they get him into the system this year). This will place the portion that would normally be in the lower tax bracket into the higher one.  Another question you may want to put to them Breezie so you know what is happening - are they taking this into account and is there something actually in place to to deal with it?


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Jan 2009)

Ahh the IRPPS pay system.

More commonly referred to as:

The WHOOPS! pay system 

or....

the RFRP (Reserve Force Reduction Plan)


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## dapaterson (22 Jan 2009)

There is a real lack of pay expertise today - clerks learn "buttonology" - how to input into a computer, but do not understand the underlying process or its potential impacts.  I'm enough of a heretic to suggest we close pay offices nationally; give local clerks some read-only access, but create a national pay centre, with 24/7 phone access and 24/7 internet access, where we can develop real expertise and provide service, vice "Oh, I'll call Ottawa, and they'll get back to you."

Perhaps when we re-do the pay systems we can make such a move...


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## Nfld Sapper (22 Jan 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> There is a real lack of pay expertise today - clerks learn "buttonology" - how to input into a computer, but do not understand the underlying process or its potential impacts.  I'm enough of a heretic to suggest we close pay offices nationally; give local clerks some read-only access, but create a national pay centre, with 24/7 phone access and 24/7 internet access, where we can develop real expertise and provide service, vice "Oh, I'll call Ottawa, and they'll get back to you."
> 
> Perhaps when we re-do the pay systems we can make such a move...



My gawd man you are applying logic to this situation, and you know what will happen  ;D


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## geo (22 Jan 2009)

Contract it out to ADP
Leave pay to the professionnals - they do this all the time AND, if they $crew up, you can always FIRE their a$$ & replace them with an agency that will do the job properly.  All we need provide is someone who enters attendance from the pay sheet into a payroll database.


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## CountDC (22 Jan 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Ahh the IRPPS pay system.
> 
> More commonly referred to as:
> 
> ...



You left out OOPS - THE SYSTEM F**KED ME AGAIN!!  Imagine telling a Capt CFR'd from CWO that he owed $100k to the government as the system says he has is still a WO and has been overpaid.   ;D  Good thing he had a sense of humour.


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## CountDC (22 Jan 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> Contract it out to ADP
> Leave pay to the professionnals - they do this all the time AND, if they $crew up, you can always FIRE their a$$ & replace them with an agency that will do the job properly.  All we need provide is someone who enters attendance from the pay sheet into a payroll database.



Professionnals that used to be called Finance Clerks   ;D  The more I see of the new crop of clerks the more I think amalgamation may not have been such a good idea.

Not a fan of contracting out ........   Royal Lepage comes to mind.


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Jan 2009)

Re: the IRPPS/WHOOPS!/OOPS! pay system, there was a Cpl in my Troop who went in debt everytime he showed up for training...he ended up telling the Troop Leader "Sir, I can't afford to keep coming to work!!!"   >


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## catalyst (23 Jan 2009)

For my itty bitty pay I get, I really hate seing it three months down the road becuase "oops, I thought you weren't going on the course so I de-loaded you halfway through" or "your not a priority" (who is then?)

Funny - i can send two travel claims to two different offices next to eachother, one takes three weeks and one takes two months.


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