# Canadian Troops In Norway For Cold Weather Combat Exercise



## Sigs Pig (19 Mar 2014)

Did not see this anywhere else. 
Funny that rain starts it off.

Link removed as per site policy  :snowman:

ME


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## Nfld Sapper (19 Mar 2014)

Sigs Pig said:
			
		

> Did not see this anywhere else.
> Funny that rain starts it off.
> 
> :snowman:
> ...




And there goes another basket of kittens.....


Please do not post anything related to that author.

MILNET.CA MENTOR


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## Sigs Pig (19 Mar 2014)

My apologies to Mike and the rest. I saw the name, just thought because the actual author was a Capt that it should be ok.... 
Should have spent that extra effort looking for the original storyline.

I do promise when I am back in Canada, I will subscribe to hopefully make up for this error and save other kittens.

Here is a proper link.

ME


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## daftandbarmy (19 Mar 2014)

Norway is always nervous that the Russians will try a 'land grab' a la Crimea in their northern regions that border on the Great Bear. So they always tend to take these kinds of exercises very seriously. Especially since they trust the Swedes like the cat trusts the dog.

And it's a tricky climate, as you note, for arctic warriors. I recall many times starting off a long trek on skis, near Narvik and points north, in the rain only have it plunge to minus 30 within about 3 hours. It's a tough place to operate any time of the year .


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## PPCLI Guy (20 Mar 2014)

sigh.

We really don`t have to go to another country to experience cold.

just saying.


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## devil39 (20 Mar 2014)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> sigh.
> 
> We really don`t have to go to another country to experience cold.
> 
> just saying.



But it's a wet cold...


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## Humphrey Bogart (20 Mar 2014)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> sigh.
> 
> We really don`t have to go to another country to experience cold.
> 
> just saying.



Agreed, what is the purpose of participating in an exercise like this?  What sort of capability are we trying to build by participating?  These are questions we should probably start asking ourselves  :facepalm:

What ever happened to our "focus on the Americas" anyways? Why aren't we doing something like sending company groups down to South America to go on exchange with the Brazilian Army seeing as how we now have Brazilian LO's in CADTC and supposedly wish to engage more in our own hemisphere?  Just a random thought  ???

Would probably be a better use of resources then sending guys to Norway to train in cold weather when I can walk out into my backyard and get all the cold weather I need.  We have a severe lack of strategic direction.


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## X Royal (20 Mar 2014)

As someone who experienced a couple NATO EX's in Norway (80 & 88) I found them to be a great training experience. 
A chance to work with our NATO allies and work in a fast paced environment.
As for the environment it differs from Canada. I found far deeper snow & that was back when we generally had more snow cover here in Canada than we have had generally in the last many years.
Also the land is far from flat.
Working with our NATO allies in a northern EX will give many a different view than working with the same allies in other environments.


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## pbi (20 Mar 2014)

I did several Norway deployments, both under the ACE Mobile Force Land (AMFL) and NATO Composite Force (NCF). We were deployed in the Bardufoss-Setermoen area, in what was was then 6 (NO) Div's AO for the defence of North Norway.  We generally worked alongside Bde North, which at that time was Norway's only standing formation in peacetime

In terms of PD, it was very interesting to see a nation wth a real, living "Total Defence" scheme, with everything from pre-set demolitions under the highways to RNAF hangars cut into the mountainside at Bardufoss, to national plans to mobilize every piece of civilian construction equipment, transport and rotary-wing aircraft in the defence of the country. It was an eye-opener to be reminded that we were part of a bigger alliance, with a potential real-world enemy. For those few unit officers who actually interacted with NATO peers in planning and coordination, there was some value too.

I'm sure that the CAF strategic planners and movers also got some practical value from doing these cross-Atlantic deployments.

In terms of tactical training, it was really not a good use of money, at all. There was almost nothing that we did there that we could not have done as well, or much better, in Canada, either in a training area such as Valcartier or Chilcoten (both of which resemble that part of Norway quite closely), or on land clearances. Due to Norwegian civilian sensibilities and environmental regulations, we were heavily restricted in what we could do, and where/when we could do it. Cutting trees, building any sort of serious defences, driving off the roads or doing any meaningful live fire traibning were all out of the question. We learned far less about cold weather operations than we learned on comparable winter exercises in Canada (that part of Norway has a climate similar to central coastal BC, due to the Gulf Stream effect)

In retrospect, IMHO the real value of the activity was not at the tactical level at all, and only secondarily for any kind of training. It was to show the Soviets that NATO would stand with the Norwegians, to reassure the Norwegians themselves, and to help keep the alliance wheels greased. And those were all useful outcomes.


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## Loachman (20 Mar 2014)

The flying was great, too.

And I only came close to death once.


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## daftandbarmy (20 Mar 2014)

Now that the 'Cold War' may be back, I'm thinking Norway - and NATOs northern flank against Russia - is going to be back as a theatre of some importance. Of course, that includes us.


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## Old Sweat (20 Mar 2014)

Back in 1973 when I was BC of the AMF(L) Battery, I did a mountain firing attachment to the Field Artillery Battalion Brigade North (FABN.) I hit it off with the CO and his ops officer so well that they invited me to attend the brigade annual FTX which followed immediately after my original attachment. Long story short, it was very interesting. I worked in the COs Tac and picked up enough Norske to be able to follow normal traffic on the regimental net, especially after I learned the call signs and the fire discipline and artillery fire orders they used.

The brigade deployed well to the east by a combination of road move and LST lift. The terrain was very restrictive with mountain slopes on one side and fiords on the other and tactics were based on cutting the advancing enemy columns into pieces by inserting battalion blocks along the road then mopping up the cut off element rear to front.

Who knows, maybe what goes around, comes around.

Loachman, their aviation was a combination of L19s and B model Hueys. FABN used German model M109s and the tank battalion had Leopard 1s, while the infantry were foot borne.


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## Loachman (20 Mar 2014)

Yup.

They thumped an L19 in during my first visit in early 1983. It got caught in a down-draught. I saw it being trucked back home - interesting-looking wreckage. It looked like it had just been swatted into the ground, which it had been.

We worked closely with 339 Squadron, who were the UH1B guys. They were nuts. They had a small ops building in Bardufoss, single-storey with a peaked roof like a house. On one side, there were two rotor blades anchored in concrete to make a large V, connected at the top by a large chain from which their Squadron badge hung. I was inside, late in the afternoon of our first day there, when I heard the thumping sound of a Huey approaching at speed. It got louder and closer. The building began to shake. And then I saw skids flash paste the window. The window was well below the top of the blade V and the peak of the roof. The helicopter's blades could not have cleared either by much more than a foot as the fuselage went between them. Apparently, the last crew down on a Friday afternoon had to do a low pass over Ops or buy beer for all Squadron members in the Mess that evening. At Norgie prices, risking death may have been preferable.

I tried a few dry fire missions with their M109s during the actual ex on that visit. Radio relay down the valleys was an excrutiatingly long process, and we were never able to actually crank one up.

It's a simple language, once one gets used to some bizarre pronunciations and learns a little vocabulary. Asking one of our hosts how to say something was always amusing, though - "It's *** **** *****." "No - don't listen to him. He's from *****************. It's really ***** **** ***." "No, they're both wrong. It's..." Lots of ocal dialects, plus there was a movement to institute Nynorsk ("New Norwegian", but more a rebuilt version of the traditional Norwegian language) and push back Bokmal ("Book Speak", more Danish as a result of Denmark's former control of Norway.

Great people. Good parties, too. Recycle a Newfie joke as a Swedish joke, and you're in.

I loved the place.

Oh, and every house looked like an Ikea display on the inside.


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## pbi (20 Mar 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Great people. Good parties, too. Recycle a Newfie joke as a Swedish joke, and you're in.
> 
> I loved the place.
> 
> Oh, and every house looked like an Ikea display on the inside.



Roger all above.

Nasty drinkers, though....that _Aquavit_..... :stars:


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## Loachman (20 Mar 2014)

I like that stuff. I only wish that we could buy it at the same strength here.

Their moonshine, though...

Especially when doctored with the artificial flavours. Those tasted most repugnant. Plain was much better.


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## Old Sweat (20 Mar 2014)

You needed it to stomach their rations, which made Lung in a Bag seem like a gourmet's delight. The whale hamburger tasted as bad as it sounds.

On the other hand, I think they deported all their ugly women.


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## Loachman (20 Mar 2014)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> You needed it to stomach their rations, which made Lung in a Bag seem like a gourmet's delight. The whale hamburger tasted as bad as it sounds.



Ah! FISKEPUDDING!!!

Roughly five-inch-square slabs of glistening-white gelatinous... stuff. I had never seen whale blubber before, but that was all that I could think of.

I was sitting with some guys from 337 Squadron on my second visit, in September 1983, some of whom I knew from earlier in the year.

With great suspicion and trepidation, I lopped a small corner off with my knife, which met no resistance. I put it in my mouth. No flavour whatsoever. I spludged it between my tongue and the roof of my mouth.

"What is this?" I asked.

"[Norwegian accent] Fiskepudding [/Norwegian accent]" (fish pudding), they all said.

"How do they make it?" I asked. My real question was "why do they make it?", but I did not want to cause offence by insulting a national delicacy. But why take a perfectly good fish and turn it into that?

"[Norwegian accent] The cooks run over it in their cars on their way to work in the morning [/Norwegian accent]."

"So you don't like it either."

"[Norwegian accent] Oh, no. We hate it [Norwegian accent]."

"Then why do you eat it?"

"[Norwegian accent] It's all there is [Norwegian accent]"

I skipped lunch the next day, because lunch was usually the previous dinner's leftovers, but fried, which at least gave it some flavour.



			
				Old Sweat said:
			
		

> On the other hand, I think they deported all their ugly women.



I think that they've been bred out.


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## xo31@711ret (20 Mar 2014)

loved Norway; I was with 1RCR in the early to mid 80's before I LOTPed. Been to Norway a couple times; first time in 83 (or could have been 84) as an AVGP grizzly driver and turret gunner; which was 'fun'  careening down a Norgie 'highway': mountain on one side of the road; on the other a flimsy guard rail & then a gawd awful drop to a fjord below.  Beautiful country, beautiful women, beautiful people. Though the MAKO beers 1, 2 & 3 gave me a killer headache hangover a few times....well, just the 3 & some Norgie liquor might be to blame.


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## Loachman (20 Mar 2014)

Mack Ol. Traditionally consumed with seagull eggs. We passed on the tradition.

We were buying it directly from the brewery, not too far away, for 1 Krone a bottle for our canteen (there were seventeen of us there, with three Kiowas), wherein we were selling it for 3 Kr. It was 10 Kr in the Officers' Mess, 23.50 in the Bardufoss Hotel in nearby Andselv, and 26.00 in the Andselv Disco. Somebody was getting rich.

I drank almost half of a 40 ouncer of cheap Scotch, out of my trusty yellow Melmac cup, on my second-last night there in order to help out our techs, who'd decided that they didn't like it. It was NATO duty-free for only $5.00, after all. And then I wandered over to the Mess and drank with the Officers of 41 Squadron, RAF. We finished off the beer there, and then worked on other stuff. It took me a while to reassemble my flying clothing the next day, some of which was still at the Mess.

And the sun was soooo bright. And my sunglasses were in my flying jacket, hanging in the Mess cloakroom.


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## dimsum (20 Mar 2014)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> On the other hand, I think they deported all their ugly women.



Yep, although when I last visited in 2010, it seemed like all of the (natural, at least) blondes were Swedes, not Norgies.  It's like the entire country's women decided to dye their hair black/brown at once.  Very strange.  

Still love the accent though, although for some reason it sounds like they're speaking while driving down a small dip in the road.  Don't ask me why.

Their P-3s go to Halifax quite regularly according to my Norgie friends' FB pages.


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## Old Sweat (20 Mar 2014)

It's almost like you sing the language. Several years latter I was introduced to a Danish officer and I said hello in Norske, to which he replied "you have a Norwegian accent."


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## dimsum (20 Mar 2014)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> It's almost like you sing the language. Several years latter I was introduced to a Danish officer and I said hello in Norske, to which he replied "you have a Norwegian accent."



This is the first thing I thought of.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914


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## pbi (21 Mar 2014)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> You needed it to stomach their rations, which made Lung in a Bag seem like a gourmet's delight. The whale hamburger tasted as bad as it sounds.
> 
> On the other hand, I think they deported all their ugly women.



When I was on an AMF(L) depl there co-located with the detached Bde No coy in Skjbotendahl Camp, one of the officers explained that the field rations were so horrible that the conscripts often refused to eat them, which sometimes led to troops collapsing on exercise. They preferred to make a "pocket lunch" of a sandwich shoved in their combat coat. The ration pack "meat" in a tin was nicknamed "Dead Man In a Can": it was a suspicious-looking pinkish-grey mess that my dog would probably not eat.

They also had a nasty thing that looked like brown toothpaste (it came in a squeeze tube). This, I discovered, was "fish paste". It was in the rations and in the dining hall as well.

Once, I invited an officer I was working with to come to lunch at the 1PP Bn field kitchen. We had massed the coy kitchens under the KO, and the cooks were doing their usual excellent work. The Norgie officer stepped inside the tent, took one look at the side tables loaded with milk, bread, fruit, desserts, etc and was in shock. After staring around for a moment, he asked "Do you guys always eat like this?"

WRT the women, I agree. I recall a memorably drunken session in the Bde Officers' Mess in which a rather attractive young female officer of the Bde Engineer Battalion felt that she would be much more comfortable if she shed her combat pants and stood at the bar in her underwear, which were decidedly non-issue. This was much appreciated by both the Cdn and Norgie officers present.


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## Loachman (21 Mar 2014)

339 Squadron ate better in the field than they did in garrison - real meat instead of mushy meatballs, and everything had flavour.

The messes did not serve lunch in garrison, either. There were rolls of waxed paper on the walls and everybody made sandwiches to take to work with them. I well remember the cheesy/seafoody tube spreads. Some were good, some seemed more like weapons than consumable substances.

Lunches were only provided in the messes when we were there. I do not know if that was done as a sign of hospitality, or if the CF paid for it, but the Norwegians seemed to like it. As I said earlier, they consisted of the previous night's leftovers fried.

Dinner was usually boiled potatoes, boiled frozen mixed vegetables, and packed-meat-mush-balls. The only variation in the latter was the colour and size. Nothing had any flavour. Salt and curry powder were provided as the only seasonings. We sold mini pizzas in our canteen in the evenings. That and cheap beer guaranteed several Norwegian visitors each night.

Monty Python did a spoof travelogue called "Norway Home of Giants" or something similar. It's most likely on Youtube.


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## Old Sweat (21 Mar 2014)

When I was doing the mountain firing attachment I did a couple of overnighters with Norwegian FOO parties. All I recall about the hard rations were the crackers - sort of like melba toast or flat bread - and the mystery meat and cheese in a tube. It was subsistence at best but after humping up and down foothills type mountain, it was edible. At least it wasn't Brit Compo, which I've also eaten.

It was quite different from the Italian field rations FJAG and I had on our attachment to the Alpini mountain artillery a few months earlier.


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## pbi (21 Mar 2014)

I forgot about the biscuits...

IIRC there was also a cake of brown powder that was supposed to be hot chocolate.

Another odd thing was that in a section-size winter tent group, the conscripts did not get sleeping bags: that was reserved for the officer (as some of you know, the Norwegian Army in the period had no real NCOs-only commissioned officers, or officer candidates employed in a junior NCO role). The troops got animal pelts that seemed to be reindeer. The rationale I was given was that only the officer, as the leader, needed the quality of rest that a sleeping bag provided.

One thing I found very odd was that at that time (early '90s), about 50% of the conscripts couldn't ski when enrolled. I had thought that all Norgies were born on skis, but I was told that since the majority of the Norwegian population lived in cities in the far south, skiing was not a universal skill.


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## Loachman (21 Mar 2014)

I'm trying to remember the name of the flatbread. My first ex-wife, being half-Norwegian, used to buy it.

Their field kit of all types was very Spartan. I wasn't sure how they could survive with it.

339 Squadron did fairly well in the field. Simple, but adequate, tents which all had a nice wood stove inside - and a bunch of conscripts to cut trees into suitable sizes and feed them every hour or two.


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## Edward Campbell (21 Mar 2014)

I recall being bemused by the conscript/regular split. My 'rations memory' is a of a sort of fish and potato soup or stew two or three times a day. Not much else stands out but it was only one exercise and it was long, long ago.  :warstory:


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Mar 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Monty Python did a spoof travelogue called "Norway Home of Giants" or something similar. It's most likely on Youtube.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acNnq8pwbC4


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## Loachman (21 Mar 2014)

Lutefisk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutefisk


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## pbi (24 Mar 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I'm trying to remember the name of the flatbread. My first ex-wife, being half-Norwegian, used to buy it.
> 
> Their field kit of all types was very Spartan. I wasn't sure how they could survive with it.
> 
> 339 Squadron did fairly well in the field. Simple, but adequate, tents which all had a nice wood stove inside - and a bunch of conscripts to cut trees into suitable sizes and feed them every hour or two.



I lived for a month in a tent heated by one of those Norgie wood stoves (we all did...) I got laryngitis that took me weeks to get rid of. That said, they did have some good pieces of modern kit and some neat adaptations:

-a packframe designed to carry a .50 cal HMG with the spade grips downwards and the barrel pointing straight up. A bit awkward in the woods, but much easier than how we usually humped it; and

-because all the likely approaches were through  narrow alpine valleys strung with utility wires and with lots of trees, the TOW was of very limited use (command wire problems over obstacles). The Norgies had fitted the old 106mm RR with laser sights and mounted it on a BV 206 chassis. This gave them a "fire and forget" capability that was much more likely to work under those conditions than the TOW would have been.


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## Old Sweat (24 Mar 2014)

pbi said:
			
		

> -because all the likely approaches were through  narrow alpine valleys strung with utility wires and with lots of trees, the TOW was of very limited use (command wire problems over obstacles). The Norgies had fitted the old 106mm RR with laser sights and mounted it on a BV 206 chassis. This gave them a "fire and forget" capability that was much more likely to work under those conditions than the TOW would have been.



When I was on the Brigade North exercise in 1973 they were using 106s of the bare bones variety. Because of the shape of the ground and perhaps the training of their conscripts who were on a six month term of full time service, no attempt was made to fire from defilade. Instead the dismounted RRs were manhandled to a crest on the highway, pushed up and (simulated) firing a couple of rounds , then withdrew. In my opinion, and I'm not an infantrymen, this was a dodgy tactics. At the very least as a gunner, my target appreciation was that their gun position was in an obvious target area and manhandling a dismounted recoilless rifle through an artillery concentration is not apt to get you a place in the victory parade.


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## daftandbarmy (24 Mar 2014)

We spent most of our time pretending we knew all about 'Motti' tactics. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salients,_re-entrants_and_pockets#Motti

At the time, I assumed that 'Motti' meant 'ski 30 miles through mountain ranges with your house on your back at 30 below, starve and freeze, then scare away a bunch of USMC REMFs and eat all their MREs'.  ;D


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## SeaKingTacco (24 Mar 2014)

We had a Norge FOO party from a M109 Bn attached to our Company in 1992 (I had the other FOO party) for a while during an exercise. They were very professional, but showed up without any rations of any sort.  They lived (well) strictly off of our IMP leftovers for days.


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## Old Sweat (24 Mar 2014)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> We had a Norge FOO party from a M109 Bn attached to our Company in 1992 (I had the other FOO party) for a while during an exercise. They were very professional, but showed up without any rations of any sort.  They lived (well) strictly off of our IMP leftovers for days.



Helmets on. When I was there in September 1973 there were at least two M109 Bns in the area. One was the full time battalion in Brigade North and the other was a reserve battalion that would be called out on mobilization. At the time it had just finished its annual two week exercise. Of interest, its CO, who was a regular, had attended the Canadian Army Staff College in the mid-sixties. Helmets off.


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## pbi (24 Mar 2014)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> When I was on the Brigade North exercise in 1973 they were using 106s of the bare bones variety. Because of the shape of the ground and perhaps the training of their conscripts who were on a six month term of full time service, no attempt was made to fire from defilade. Instead the dismounted RRs were manhandled to a crest on the highway, pushed up and (simulated) firing a couple of rounds , then withdrew. In my opinion, and I'm not an infantrymen, this was a dodgy tactics. At the very least as a gunner, my target appreciation was that their gun position was in an obvious target area and manhandling a dismounted recoilless rifle through an artillery concentration is not apt to get you a place in the victory parade.



I often wondered what training levels they were actually capable of achieving, given that the conscript troops did (IIRC) one year, and then an annual call-up of about two weeks. Other than the officers (who would move onwards and upwards in their professional careers), I didn't really see how expertise and experience were being maintained at the tactical level, since there were no NCOs beyond a "Sgt" at section level who was normally an officer selection candidate singled out of the conscript stream. Many jobs seemed to be done by junior officers that we would have assigned to NCOs or WOs. (like the old Soviet system). While this would have been a challenge in CbtA units, it must have been very difficult in technical support units, especially adapting to new equipment items that came in after a technician did their conscript service.

I did notice, in a few places, very old Captains being used to do jobs that we would assign to Sgts or WOS, such as Range Control, Base Ops, etc. This might be how they got around it. A few Norgie officers commented that they envied our system of professional NCOs, but that this wasn't possible under their defence regulations. ( Since some time after WWII, any full-timer had to be a commissioned officer)

I suppose that their advantage was that they would be fighting to defend their homeland, in highly defensible terrain on which the Norgies had TEWT-ed, planned and exercised endlessly for years. All they had to do (I guess...) was hang on long enough for NATO to arrive. The Home Guard companies and platoons would be fighting in or near their own villages, and as I mentioned earlier the  country had a true "National Defence" scheme of total mobilization. I guess their motto was "Never Again".


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## Edward Campbell (24 Mar 2014)

pbi said:
			
		

> I often wondered what training levels they were actually capable of achieving, given that the conscript troops did (IIRC) one year, and then an annual call-up of about two weeks. Other than the officers (who would move onwards and upwards in their professional careers), I didn't really see how expertise and experience were being maintained at the tactical level, since there were no NCOs beyond a "Sgt" at section level who was normally an officer selection candidate singled out of the conscript stream. Many jobs seemed to be done by junior officers that we would have assigned to NCOs or WOs. (like the old Soviet system). While this would have been a challenge in CbtA units, it must have been very difficult in technical support units, especially adapting to new equipment items that came in after a technician did their conscript service.
> 
> I did notice, in a few places, very old Captains being used to do jobs that we would assign to Sgts or WOS, such as Range Control, Base Ops, etc. This might be how they got around it. A few Norgie officers commented that they envied our system of professional NCOs, but that this wasn't possible under their defence regulations. ( Since some time after WWII, any full-timer had to be a commissioned officer)
> 
> I suppose that their advantage was that they would be fighting to defend their homeland, in highly defensible terrain on which the Norgies had TEWT-ed, planned and exercised endlessly for years. All they had to do (I guess...) was hang on long enough for NATO to arrive. The Home Guard companies and platoons would be fighting in or near their own villages, and as I mentioned earlier the  country had a true "National Defence" scheme of total mobilization. I guess their motto was "Never Again".




That was one of the things, along with the soup/stew, that stuck in my mind. There were no (just very few?) NCO radio technicians ~ all the ones with whom I had contact were officers. Maybe they were some sort of _specialist_ officer but they were officers and they were doing jobs we would assign to a private or corporal.

I was also a bit surprised at what I though was a fairly low level of knowledge about radio in the near Arctic. The engineers and scientists were (still are, I think) first rate, but their signal officers, like ours I am saddened to say, didn't really understand what the _doughnut_ (which causes, amongst other things, the _Aurora Borealis_) does to radio communications in nearby regions. (Sending me up there to 'explain' that to already too busy regimental and battalion signal officers did not appear, to me (or them) to be an especially good use of resources, but ...)






A good (thanks NASA) image of the _doughnut_ which is powered by the sun.
You can communicate well in the _open_ parts, but communicating with conventional,
terrestrial radios within the _doughnut_ or between regions can be interesting.


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## Loachman (24 Mar 2014)

Their Flight Engineers were all commissioned as well, and occupied the front-left seat on the UH1Bs.

That machine had a really, really sensitive collective.


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## daftandbarmy (24 Mar 2014)

They were quite proud of the fact that they could mobilize 1 million people in 4 days (out of a population of about 4 million). 

I wonder if they have maintained that capability.


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## kratz (24 Mar 2014)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> They were quite proud of the fact that they could mobilize 1 million people in 4 days (out of a population of about 4 million).
> 
> I wonder if they have maintained that capability.



If Canada could acheive this, our connection to the average population would be more than the old salt, "support is a mile wide and an inche deep."

Sadly, who would approve paying for this ability?


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## pbi (24 Mar 2014)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> They were quite proud of the fact that they could mobilize 1 million people in 4 days (out of a population of about 4 million).
> 
> I wonder if they have maintained that capability.



They claim to have recently increased their Army manpower, although it looks like Bde North remains the only standing manoeuvre force in peacetime.  (There are a lot of schools, HQs and special organizations.)  The total Armed Forces mobilization is  over 80,000. They have conscription, but they take in only a fraction of the people who are registered. 

Forsvarets:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Armed_Forces

The manpower for territorial defence still seems to reside in the Home Guard (HV), and this has been reorganized to have 5,000 people at a high readiness (24 hrs) component for anti-terrorism capability). The HV can mobilize over 56,000 troops, organized into local defence regions and units.



HV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimevernet


*Fixed links ~Staff


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## daftandbarmy (25 Mar 2014)

kratz said:
			
		

> If Canada could acheive this, our connection to the average population would be more than the old salt, "support is a mile wide and an inche deep."
> 
> Sadly, who would approve paying for this ability?



Well, Norway shares a border with Russia so it's understandable that they really need that kind of capability, unlike us... er.... uh.... right?


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## dimsum (25 Mar 2014)

kratz said:
			
		

> If Canada could acheive this, our connection to the average population would be more than the old salt, "support is a mile wide and an inche deep."
> 
> Sadly, who would approve paying for this ability?



Yes, but fortunately Canada has never been invaded (successfully).  

I'm of two minds about national service/conscription.  Sure, it's a great way of connecting the military to the public, but even when I spoke to Israelis, Norwegians, etc. in my travels, they seemed very "meh" about it, as if it was something to do and then get on with your life.  The feeling I got was despite every male (or in the case of the IDF, everyone) having some sort of military connection, support wasn't always there.  

Besides, we all know "that guy" who you'd never trust with a spoon, let alone a real weapon.   :nod:


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## Infanteer (25 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Besides, we all know "that guy" who you'd never trust with a spoon, let alone a real weapon.   :nod:



Unfortunately, he joined up and is a Strathcona now....


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## Oldgateboatdriver (25 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Yes, but fortunately Canada has never been invaded (successfully).



That's funny, I thought the Brits managed pretty successfully in 1759-60.


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## George Wallace (25 Mar 2014)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> That's funny, I thought the Brits managed pretty successfully in 1759-60.



Wasn't that "La nouvelle France" at that time?


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## Oldgateboatdriver (25 Mar 2014)

Nouvelle France was always referred to by the French as "en Canada", which in France, referred to all of the New World colonies, including those in PEI, New Brunswick, Louisiana, Nova Scotia, etc. etc. So in the French view, North America was basically "Canada".

The Jesuits very own "record" of history was called  "Relations du Canada".


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## Old Sweat (25 Mar 2014)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Nouvelle France was always referred to by the French as "en Canada", which in France, referred to all of the New World colonies, including those in PEI, New Brunswick, Louisiana, Nova Scotia, etc. etc. So in the French view, North America was basically "Canada".
> 
> The Jesuits very own "record" of history was called  "Relations du Canada".



What he said. Take a look at a map of the United States. The number of French place names is an indication of just how far they ventured while the English settlers were penned up against the Appalachians.

Bit of a side track, but OGBD made an excellent point. And some of you know enough to not get me going on the last invasions of Canada in the 1866-1871 period.


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## dapaterson (25 Mar 2014)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Bit of a side track, but OGBD made an excellent point. And some of you know enough to not get me going on the last invasions of Canada in the 1866-1871 period.



Yes, we know how much you enjoy reliving the tales of your youth  >


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## Edward Campbell (25 Mar 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Yes, we know how much you enjoy reliving the tales of your youth  >


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## George Wallace (25 Mar 2014)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Nouvelle France was always referred to by the French as "en Canada", which in France, referred to all of the New World colonies, including those in PEI, New Brunswick, Louisiana, Nova Scotia, etc. etc. So in the French view, North America was basically "Canada".
> 
> The Jesuits very own "record" of history was called  "Relations du Canada".



I am not convinced:

http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/en/explore/online/franco_ontarian/big/big_03_new_france_map.aspx

"Le Canada, ou Nouvelle France"

Then again; how many times has our history been rewritten.


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## pbi (27 Mar 2014)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I'm of two minds about national service/conscription.  Sure, it's a great way of connecting the military to the public, but even when I spoke to Israelis, Norwegians, etc. in my travels, they seemed very "meh" about it, as if it was something to do and then get on with your life.  The feeling I got was despite every male (or in the case of the IDF, everyone) having some sort of military connection, support wasn't always there...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (27 Mar 2014)

When it's the norm, it's hard to think of something different, I now quite a few Singaporeans who believe it's the glue holding them together. A common memory/experience that can be shared across the country.


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## daftandbarmy (28 Mar 2014)

Colin P said:
			
		

> When it's the norm, it's hard to think of something different, I now quite a few Singaporeans who believe it's the glue holding them together. A common memory/experience that can be shared across the country.



Kind of like Rob Ford then?  ;D


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## Colin Parkinson (28 Mar 2014)

It seems that since the debate he is a dim light bulb shining in a cesspool


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## Loachman (28 Mar 2014)

Rob Ford was in Norway for a Cold Weather Combat Exercise?


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## blacktriangle (28 Mar 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Rob Ford was in Norway for a Cold Weather Combat Exercise?



Crack is one hell of a drug.


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## tomahawk6 (29 Mar 2014)

Not cold enough in Canada ?


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## pbi (30 Mar 2014)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Rob Ford was in Norway for a Cold Weather Combat Exercise?



No, no...it's a bar called "Norway". Right next to Biermarkt.  100 drafts on tap up front, 50 kinds of crack in the washroom.


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## Humphrey Bogart (30 Mar 2014)

pbi said:
			
		

> No, no...it's a bar called "Norway". Right next to Biermarkt.  100 drafts on tap up front, 50 kinds of crack in the washroom.


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