# Educating Nemo888 on VAC Benefits; The continuing saga....



## Nemo888 (17 Apr 2009)

I knew these lump sum payouts were just a scam when they were introduced. 267,364$ really doesn't seem like much for 100% disability. 

I've know a reservist booked at 10% disability who will never be able to do so much as shovel his driveway. 26,000$ at 10%. Sounds like a bad joke. That doesn't even cover his lost wages. And of course the reservist who lost a hand and got 12,000$ is probably the worst indictment of the system. What can you do with only one hand?

A number of Veterans have been screwed. I think it is time we start talking about it. If you think you will be taken care of I'm afraid you will be in for a surprise. 

http://www.legion.ca/_PDF/SBureau/Rates2009_DisabilityAwards_e.pdf

P.S. If you get a soldier hurt during training remember there is every possibility he will not get proper care or compensation for a permanent injury.


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## mariomike (17 Apr 2009)

A little out of my lane, but here is my - layman's - opinion. 
That looks like the military version of a  NEL ( Non Economic Loss ) award. 
NEL has nothing to do with Loss of Earnings - LOE. 
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=forces/nvc/programs/da


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## Nemo888 (17 Apr 2009)

So they get this lump sum and they don't get anything for loss of earnings. That is the point. 

They can go on long term disability, but not through VA. Which is basically welfare where you get 930$ a month here in Ontario. Welcome to your new life. The Army passes the buck to Veterans Affairs. Whose main goal seems to be saving as much money as possible. They treat vets like crap making them jump through so many hoops they want to give up and just get by on their own.


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## the 48th regulator (17 Apr 2009)

The new Charter is frustrating.

However it is a liiving charter, which means that it can be changed at any time without the process of going through the normal rigamarole.

That being said, there are provisions to help the modern vet i.e VOC Rehab http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=forces/nvc/programs/rehab

You did know about this Nemo, correct?

I mean, there is a lot more to it than a lump sum payment and see ya later.  Frig, we were treated a hell of a lot worse in the past.  Now the VAC is based on client service management. 

dileas

tess


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## Occam (17 Apr 2009)

There are an awful lot of benefits that you don't seem to be aware of, Nemo888.  Take a look at this pub - http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/cen/pub/ddb-pdi/index-eng.asp - and you'll see there's a lot more than just the VAC disability award.  There are earnings replacement programs which are available if you truly are unable to return to work.  (Don't quote me, but I believe there is a 2009 version of this pub - see your OR).

I'm not even sure that pub mentions things like the VAC VIP program, which would cover the costs of snow removal/grass mowing/etc. for the hypothetical example you gave.  

If you can get to a SCAN seminar, they offer a fantastic briefing on the benefits available to medically releasing members and veterans.


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## the 48th regulator (17 Apr 2009)

Occam said:
			
		

> There are an awful lot of benefits that you don't seem to be aware of, Nemo888.  Take a look at this pub - http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/cen/pub/ddb-pdi/index-eng.asp - and you'll see there's a lot more than just the VAC disability award.  There are earnings replacement programs which are available if you truly are unable to return to work.  (Don't quote me, but I believe there is a 2009 version of this pub - see your OR).
> 
> I'm not even sure that pub mentions things like the VAC VIP program, which would cover the costs of snow removal/grass mowing/etc. for the hypothetical example you gave.
> 
> If you can get to a SCAN seminar, they offer a fantastic briefing on the benefits available to medically releasing members and veterans.



VIP, are open sources on the net;


What you can get

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=services/vip/vip_cover

What does VIP cover?

If you are a Veteran and qualify for VIP, the services you receive will depend on your circumstances and health needs. These services may include:

grounds maintenance, including grass cutting and snow removal;

housekeeping, including help with routine tasks such as doing the laundry, cleaning your home, or preparing meals;

personal care services to assist you with personal needs, such as bathing, dressing, and eating;

access to nutrition services, like Meals-on-Wheels and Wheels-to-Meals; and

health and support services provided by health professionals.

Who Can Apply;

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=services/vip/expansion/who_apply

As is the Centre,

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/cen/atc-slc/cu-cn-eng.asp


Look at Occam go!!

We are working together like Cagney and Lacey!!

Get me those up to date references, and boyeoh, we will blaze this site!

dileas

tess


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## Nemo888 (15 Dec 2009)

I must say that the lump sum was the biggest slap in the face in recent memories. 100% disability is only 226,000 dollars. The worst I've seen is a reservist who got 12,000$ for having his hand blown off. Since it is only a 5% disability he gets almost no additional support. At 10% a few more perks kick in. WTF can you do with only one hand?

I think the worst would be a 20% disability. Your life is that of a crippled old man and you only get 52,000$ to start a new life. You can almost do most things. 

The lump sum is good if you only plan on living 5 years. Anything after that and the lump sum  pays more and gives you some security. Imagine a 20 year old kid getting by on Disability for the next 60 years. 

Soldiers deserve better.


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## ArmyRick (15 Dec 2009)

Its too bad that we have to nickel and dime the troops like this.  Not right.


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## the 48th regulator (15 Dec 2009)

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> I must say that the lump sum was the biggest slap in the face in recent memories. 100% disability is only 226,000 dollars. The worst I've seen is a reservist who got 12,000$ for having his hand blown off.



Mind blowing!

I hope he appealed that!  Where does the lad Live?  Maybe he can still be helped via an IPSC local to him.



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Since it is only a 5% disability he gets almost no additional support. At 10% a few more perks kick in. WTF can you do with only one hand?



Services provided, are based on the injury not the percentage.  He would qualify for any services entitled to him, regardless of percentage awarded.



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> I think the worst would be a 20% disability. Your life is that of a crippled old man and you only get 52,000$ to start a new life. You can almost do most things.



Agree, but remember if he is released from the Military medically he is also entitled to VOC rehab from SISIP, and then From VAC.



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> The lump sum is good if you only plan on living 5 years. Anything after that and the lump sum  pays more and gives you some security. Imagine a 20 year old kid getting by on Disability for the next 60 years.
> 
> Soldiers deserve better.



Like the old charter, and pension, his case can an will be reviewed and further awards can happen in the future.

dileas

tess


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## Nemo888 (15 Dec 2009)

Regulator. The system does not really work like in the shiny pamphlets. VAC is not part of the Army. It is a very poorly run civil service bureaucracy. It is filled with patronage appointments who like to save money to justify their existence. Similar to how the lump sum would "benefit" soldiers. Estimates put supporting Veterans as costing more than waging the actual war. Money saving measures were introduced. A public relations campaign was started. The most disgusting is the welfare like system of hoops Vets have to jump through.

Promises are made but the reality is that the system is more like welfare than a pension. There are benefits that only kick in at 10% now. Rehab sounds nice. But if you have shrapnel in your heart or a fractured spine it really does not do very much after the initial healing. You can go from elite athlete to 70 year old man begging to get enough money to survive. You can get a review, but the lawyers attitude is that if you actually got an award you are lucky.

Take one piece of really important advice from me and forget the rest.

*When you get hurt don't release under any circustances.*


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## Trinity (15 Dec 2009)

I'm fairly sure the Regulator is well experienced with the VAC.


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## Nemo888 (15 Dec 2009)

I'm fairly sure that if he went through the system it was before the New Veterans Charter. The old system was much better for soldiers though substantially more expensive for tax payers. You cannot really compare experiences with the old system.


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## the 48th regulator (15 Dec 2009)

First of all, I want to apologise for taking this on a completely different tangent than what the thread was meant, mods please split.





			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Regulator. The system does not really work like in the shiny pamphlets. VAC is not part of the Army. It is a very poorly run civil service bureaucracy. It is filled with patronage appointments who like to save money to justify their existence.



Congratulations, you summed up every part of the Civil Service  :



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Similar to how the lump sum would "benefit" soldiers. Estimates put supporting Veterans as costing more than waging the actual war. Money saving measures were introduced. A public relations campaign was started. The most disgusting is the welfare like system of hoops Vets have to jump through.



No one agrees that the lump payment was any better than the previous system, trust me I have spoken up about that.  You were the one that alluded to inaccuracies that the lump sum payment was all that a veteran got.  There is alot more services available, which is an improvement from the previous system.



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Promises are made but the reality is that the system is more like welfare than a pension.



You ahve lost me here, expand....



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> There are benefits that only kick in at 10% now. Rehab sounds nice. But if you have shrapnel in your heart or a fractured spine it really does not do very much after the initial healing. You can go from elite athlete to 70 year old man begging to get enough money to survive. You can get a review, but the lawyers attitude is that if you actually got an award you are lucky.









Anecdotal evidence, much like your story about the Handless troop.  Give links and proof.



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Take one piece of really important advice from me and forget the rest.








Hehehe Ch'ya right.  You have not given one bit of useful information as of yet.  All legion hall anecdotes....



			
				Nemo888 said:
			
		

> *When you get hurt don't release under any circustances.*



Folks, once again do yourself a favour and ignore this twit.  Obviously he has no idea of the systems that are in place, and is passing off Stories to help perpetuate a myth...

dileas


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## the 48th regulator (15 Dec 2009)

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> I'm fairly sure that if he went through the system it was before the New Veterans Charter. The old system was much better for soldiers though substantially more expensive for tax payers. You cannot really compare experiences with the old system.



I have gone through both , Jingles.

Have you gone through either?

dileas

tess


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## Nemo888 (15 Dec 2009)

Yes I have. I will get back to you tomorrow with more info. The troop with the blown off hand was eventually published in a report on reservists not getting proper coverage that was released about two years ago. I read it at CEFCOM. Someone else must have read it too.

The 10% thing i believe allowed more types and intensive rehab, VIP services and perhaps vocational rehab. I was told by the Doc that getting over 10% was important. I can phone and ask.

P.S. Are you always so confrontational. Do you have any idea how you sound? I should not have released. Got a little hungry that first year and miss the 50K a year from the Army. I thought it was more honourable to just release since I was not deployable but I didn't get the support I expected.

Also in the interest of full disclosure my lump sum was equal to what I would have earned in 6.7 years on the old system. I should live an additional 40 years on top of that. Quite a savings for Joe Taxpayer.


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## the 48th regulator (15 Dec 2009)

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Yes I have. I will get back to you tomorrow with more info. The troop with the blown off hand was eventually published in a report on reservists not getting proper coverage that was released about two years ago. I read it at CEFCOM. Someone else must have read it too.
> 
> The 10% thing i believe allowed more types and intensive rehab, VIP services and perhaps vocational rehab. I was told by the Doc that getting over 10% was important. I can phone and ask.
> 
> P.S. Are you always so confrontational. Do you have any idea how you sound? I should not have released. Got a little hungry that first year and miss the 50K a year from the Army. I thought it was more honourable to just release since I was not deployable but I didn't get the support I expected.



I am confrontational with people who perpetuate a myth, which can cause harm to people.  I don't care what the "Doc" told you, percentage has no relevance with regards to what you are entitled to.  VIP must be applied for by the member, not automatically offered.

and VOC Rehab is for ANYBODY that is *Medically released*, which you advocated against....

That is what pisses me off.  It took me two minutes to find the links to where the TRUE information can be found.  Yet, you find me confrontational, because I challenged the tripe you were pushing.

I shall wait with bated breath, for you to get back to us tomorrow, with the links and information I asked for.

dileas

tess


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## the 48th regulator (15 Dec 2009)

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Also in the interest of full disclosure my lump sum was equal to what I would have earned in 6.7 years on the old system. I should live an additional 40 years on top of that. Quite a savings for Joe Taxpayer.



To address your addon, you are preaching to the choir brother!

I definitely agree with you on that one.  But as the saying goes, turn lemons into lemonade.  I hope you have invested some of that money for the future.

dileas

tess


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## the 48th regulator (17 Dec 2009)

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Yes I have. I will get back to you tomorrow with more info.



Let us know if you need anymore time, there, Nemo....

dileas

tess


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## armyvern (17 Dec 2009)

Perhaps he needs more time to plan the attack upon a SME?

Some links that Nemo may find worth the read ...

http://www.army.ca/wiki/index.php/Tescione
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/282038
http://thehealthline.ca/displayservice.aspx?id=4134
http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/toronto/ondemand/audio/sep18ts_TOR.wma
http://www.digitaljournal.com/print/article/282038

Anyway Tess,

Dileas Gu Brath

iper:


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