# At least 60 civilians killed in NATO operation: Afghan officials



## kilekaldar (26 Oct 2006)

At least 60 civilians killed in NATO operation: Afghan officials
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/10/26/civilian-deaths.html
Last Updated: Thursday, October 26, 2006 | 8:26 AM ET 
CBC News </news/credit.html> 
NATO operations in Afghanistan's volatile south left dozens of Afghan civilians dead earlier this week, according to Afghan government officials and a village resident.
Bismallah Afghanmal, a provincial council member, told the Associated Press an estimated 80 to 85 civilians were killed in the operation, while Karim Jan, a villager, said 60 to 70 civilians died. Another government official, who declined to give his name, told the Associated Press that at least 60 civilians were killed.
NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said late Wednesday that its forces killed 48 militants in the Panjwaii district of Kandahar province on Tuesday. ISAF said it had "credible reports" of civilian casualties in the fighting, but was aware of only four civilians wounded.
Maj. Luke Knittig, a ISAF spokesman, said NATO forces used mortar and artillery backed by air support against militants who were trying to undermine efforts to stabilize the area for reconstruction.
Knittig said the Afghan Defence Ministry is planning to investigate the reports of civilian deaths.
According to Afghanmal, Taliban militants in the area sought shelter in homes owned by civilians and NATO forces targeted the homes.
"The government and the coalition told the families that there are no Taliban in the area anymore," Afghanmal said. "If there are no Taliban, then why are they bombing the area?"
Afghan President Hamid Karzai has repeatedly urged NATO to exercise caution during its operations to avoid civilian deaths and injuries.
In September, NATO conducted a military operation known as Operation Medusa, led by Canadian troops, that it said led to the deaths of 500 suspected militants in two districts, including the Panjwaii, west of Kandahar. NATO deemed the operation a success.
Since then, 10 Canadian soldiers have been killed in bombings and attacks by Taliban fighters.
Canada has more than 2,000 troops in southern Afghanistan, the majority in Kandahar, as part of the NATO force in the country. Forty-two Canadian soldiers have died since Canada first sent troops to Afghanistan in early 2002.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (26 Oct 2006)

As with everything in Afghanistan, we won't know the actual ground truth until an investigation is completed.  Quotes of casualties from unnamed Afghan sources and villagers who may or may not have a connection with the TB should be taken with a significant grain of salt.

Unfortunately, CBC hasn't seen fit to include that little caveat in its reporting.


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## The Bread Guy (26 Oct 2006)

Not to mention the fact that there may be more than one side to a story (heaven forbid)    Let's see how many Canadian media outlets pick up THIS angle.....

*NATO says Taleban using civilians as shields, as high toll feared*
Agence France Presse, 26 Oct 06
http://www.khaleejtimes.ae/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/subcontinent/2006/October/subcontinent_October989.xml&section=subcontinent&col=

The NATO force in Afghanistan Thursday accused the Taleban of using civilians as human shields, as authorities scrambled to verify reports that at least 60 people were killed in military strikes.  The International Security Assistance Force said it could not say how many civilians were killed in a series of operations in the southern province of Kandahar late Tuesday, but was helping Afghan authorities to find out.  ISAF said late Wednesday that 48 Taleban were killed in three engagements, including air strikes, in Kandahar’s Panjwayi area late Tuesday ....


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## ProPatria Mike (26 Oct 2006)

Thats a shame.


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## paracowboy (26 Oct 2006)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> *NATO says Taleban using civilians as shields, as high toll feared*


SOP. The enemy understands the importance of PsyOps even better than we do, and the carrion-feeders are willing fifth columnists. 

Some are cooperating, some are coerced, and some "civilians" killed are Timmie. I feel for the poor bastards caught in the crossfire, but our guys have to hammer home the point that Timmie is causing the deaths.


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## 2 Cdo (26 Oct 2006)

We also know that the Taliban and al Queda would never remove weapons from their dead in order to inflate "innocent civilian" deaths! :


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## Trinity (26 Oct 2006)

Lets say a section of infantry comes under effective fire and uses
a civilian building that is occupied by a family.  If the civilians inside
get killed or injured the press would blame our guys for using civilians 
as Shields or endangering the lives of the Afghans.

When the Taliban do it, it's still our fault?

The problem isn't with the Taliban. The problem is with the MEDIA


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## 2 Cdo (26 Oct 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Lets say a section of infantry comes under effective fire and uses
> a civilian building that is occupied by a family.  If the civilians inside
> get killed or injured the press would blame our guys for using civilians
> as Shields or endangering the lives of the Afghans.
> ...



Trinity I have been "preaching" ;D that for years. I realise we need a press in Canada but I don't have to talk to them! :threat:


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## Trinity (26 Oct 2006)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Trinity I have been "preaching" ;D that for years.



Scares me.. we both agree on something  : ;D


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## a_majoor (26 Oct 2006)

Even in the original article the difference between "us" and "them" is pretty apparent. "They" kill or allow to be killed indiscriminately without limit or remorse, while we work to protect, rush to investigate, offer succor to the families and change our tactics to prevent future recurrence if possible.

Of course the writers and editors are fairly quick to gloss over these points.........


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## gnome123 (27 Oct 2006)

From what i hear the afghan people are starting to embrace the Taliban and these casualty deaths are brewing hate towards NATO forces.

I find with recent events it is just going to get harder to win these peoples hearts. An inquiry isn't going to bring their loved ones back.

It also makes the NATO forces a more sought out target in the time to come.

Taliban have also reportedly swore revenge for the deaths of their people by mass suicide bombings.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1161899442924&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724
For different reports on casualties


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## paracowboy (27 Oct 2006)

gnome123 said:
			
		

> From what i hear the afghan people are starting to embrace the Taliban and these casualty deaths are brewing hate towards NATO forces.
> 
> I find with recent events it is just going to get harder to win these peoples hearts. An inquiry isn't going to bring their loved ones back.
> 
> ...


from what I hear, the moon landings were staged in a parking lot, the Twin Towers were actually a CIA plot to invade Iraq, and Mary Magdelene gave birth to triplets by Jesus (two of whom became an out-standing Comedy team in Herod's Palace).  :

I tend to believe the Weekly World News before I do The Red Star.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 Oct 2006)

gnome123 said:
			
		

> Taliban have also reportedly swore revenge for the deaths  of their people by mass suicide bombings.



Does anyone else see a Monty Python skit in that statement?


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## Korus (27 Oct 2006)

The good old Twit Olympics.


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## cplcaldwell (27 Oct 2006)

A quick sampling from online news sources. No wiki. I used Harpers, CBC and BBC. Primary citations provided.

Unless other wise noted this is a sampling of *Civilian*, *Foreign Non Combattants*, and *ANP* killed in direct attacks or as collateral damage in the last 3 years by actions directly attributable to Taliban.

I _know_ I missing quite a few.

I think, IMHO, one should peruse these figures.


20 Nov 2003 - 1 Killed  UN aid worker shot by Taliban in Ghazni 9
28 Dec 2003 - 5 Afghan Police killed when a man they had detained blew himself up 1
28 Jan 2004 - 1 Killed, 8 injured in a suicide bombing that kills a Cdn 6
07 Mar 2004 - 1 Killed, head of Zabul Red Cresent, in drive by 8
08 Jun 2004 - 'Doctors Without Borders' suspend ops in Afstan after 'one of their teams' killed by Taliban 1
17 Jun 2004 - 4 killed, including 2 schoolkids in IED attack in Kunduz, destroying a NATO vehicle,  1
26 Jun 2004 - 2 Killed, 13 injured in IED bombing 13 
28 Jun 2004 - 14 unarmed men killed because they had registered to vote.1 
29 Aug 2004 - 9 children, 1 adult killed in a school bombing in Paktia province 1  
29 Aug 2004 - 'Several' people killed in a truck bombing in Kabul 1
28 Mar 2005 - 4 Injured in IED, Kabul 12
04 Apr 2005 - 9 Police killed in Southern Afghanistan 1
23 Apr 2005 - A woman is stoned to death for adultery 1
02 Jun 2005  - 2 Killed, 5 wounded in roadisde bomb 16
06 Jun 2005 - 20 People killed in Kandahar by a bomb 1
10 Jul 2005 - 10 captured ANA soldiers are beheaded by the Taliban 1
16 Jan 2006 - 2 Killed, 11 Injured in IED bombing that wounds 2 Cdns severly.
09 Apr 2006 - 4 killed (At least), 17 wounded including ANA soldiers in bombings 7
30 Mar 2006 - 1 Boy killed, 6 wounded Canadian soldier killed in suicide bombing outside KAF 5
22 Aug 2006 - 1 child killed, 3 others wounded, Cdn soldier killed in a suicide bombing, Kandahar province 4
28 Aug 2006 - 17 Killed, 47 Injured by a suicide bombing in Lashkar Gul, Helmand Province 3
18 Sep 2006 - 27 Injured in a suicide bmbong that kills four Candian troops 2
11 Oct 2005 - 11 ANP killed in an ambush 1
05 Jan 2006 - 10 People killed in a suidice bombing 1
01 May 2006 - 10 Killed in a Taliban minivan bomb 1
22 Sep 2006 - 19 Killed in highway ambush, Kandahar Prov. 15
30 Sep 2006 - 12 Killed "Dozens" wounded in Kabul suicide bombing 11
20 Oct 2006 - 8 Killed in highway robbery, Kunar Prov 14
27 Oct 2006 - 14 Killed 3 wounded in a roadside bomb in Urzugan 10

 1 http://www.harpers.org/Afghanistan.html#20040113-236566634331
 2 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/09/18/bombing-canadians.html
 3 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/08/28/bombing-afghanistan.html
 4 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/08/27/afghanistan.html
 5 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/03/30/kandahar-soldier060330.html
 6 http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2004/01/27/cda_soldiers040127.html
 7 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4892782.stm
 8 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3540789.stm
 9 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3277077.stm
 10 http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/061027/w102720.html
 11 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/09/30/kabul-bomb.html
 12 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/03/28/cdninjured-050328.html
 13 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2004/06/26/afghanistan040626.html
 14 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/10/20/afghan-workers.html
 15 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/09/22/afghan-ambush.html
 16 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/06/02/landmines050602.html

_PS Did not consult Red Star_


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## gnome123 (27 Oct 2006)

Revenge part i got from CTV News and i don't always believe what i hear/read but it's the closest information i can get considering im not their.  :


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## KevinB (27 Oct 2006)

The sad thing is that the mainstream media are for all intensive pueposes 5th Columnists.
  They sell based on blood and sensationalism, without a true thought to the truth and National focus


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## cplcaldwell (27 Oct 2006)

*I6* - I just spent an hour sifting through the net for those figures. 

There are several sites dedicated to Afghan civilian deaths during UEF because of western forces. Many contain unsubstantiated counts. (Then there's Professor Herold...)

I could not find one site, or even one article from any time period on any site (CBC, BBC, G&M, CNN etc.) that similarly accounted for Afghan civilian or civil power deaths due to Taliban , Northern Alliance etc.. _*anywhere...*_

When one finds an article on _an_ incident, In almost every case the Afghan death counts are buried in the article's body. 

Yet when a USAF bomb goes astray the count is top right. Further, such stories receive multiple coverages, sometimes over two or three days. 

Finally when NATO/ISAF/UEF forces are responsible for the deaths every wild-*** man in the street guesstimate is published.

Go figure.


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