# CTB on BOTP



## Ralph (14 May 2003)

Anyone remember offhand how many weekends you get off during BOTP? I know the enlisted recruits are confined to barracks for the first few weeks - if I get in for the September course, will I get the Thanksgiving weekend off? Do they ever give you an extra half-day to get back? There are only so many hours to fly cross-country...
Cheers,
Ralph.


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## Illucigen (19 May 2003)

REG FORCE info:

IAP-BOTP for the first 8 weeks is called IAP (not BOTP).  That stands for initial assessment period. the first 4 weeks of this period are considered an indoctrination period, and thus all Officer Candidates are CB (confided to barracks) for the entirety of those 4 weeks - longer if the DS feel the need.

After that, a couple weekends are also "duty weekends" where you will be CB‘d again, but those are fairly random. Basically, if you are on course, you will go home when you get to go home, not when you want to go home.


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## tjmackey99 (19 May 2003)

Just wondering if anyone is going to the IAP-BOTP in St. Jean this summer from June 23 to Aug. 15?


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## Dire (20 May 2003)

I don‘t think I would have problem going home since I live in Vancouver and it would be a pain in the ***  to travel back and forth   


so us living in the west taking the course in Quebec are kinda stuck in the barraks anyhow eh?


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## Zoomie (20 May 2003)

You will be very familiar with St-Jean by the time you are done with it.  Expect to spend close to one full year in that place if your entry plan is DEO and your official language skills are somewhat mediocre.
An interesting side-note, only Privates can be legally CB‘d (confined to barracks).  Not saying that it won‘t happen, it just will be called something else....  Think of it more like this way.  The military does not have to give you your weekends off.  In the case of BOTC (or whatever they are calling it this week), the instructors simply provide a marching NCO to accompany the candidates during the weekend periods, in order to keep them busy.


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## ProPatria05 (20 May 2003)

Zoomie (and others)

I did some investigating into the 2nd language training (SLT) component. Used to be that a DEO officer could spend many consecutive months doing SLT following IAP/BOTP.

However, under the new model (which I found on the DIN), the Army is limiting SLT during DP1, which is the period from enrolment to completion of Phase 4.. My memory is escaping me, but I believe the limit was 200 hours (i.e. 5 weeks) during DP1. The remainder is deferred to DP2 (Captain to LCol, I believe).

The idea, I would think, is to get Army officers trade qualified before worrying too much about SLT, since bilingualism is not a requirement until promotion to either LCol or Col.


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## Ralph (20 May 2003)

The only question is when the new plan starts...hopefully soon. Nobody‘s been told any different than eight months at St. Jean for SLT yet, have you?
Cheers,
Ralph.


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## ProPatria05 (20 May 2003)

I can‘t remember the exact date of the change, but I do remember that according to the document the new policy should now be in place.

HOWEVER...we all know better than to take that for granted.


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## Illucigen (20 May 2003)

tjmackey99... going onto RMC are you? Ill probably see you around at the Mega, although I will not be on your course.


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## tjmackey99 (20 May 2003)

Illucigen, actually I will be staying at my civilian university for my last two years. I am what they call a "senior applicant" and am joining the process a little late. But I will be around St. Jean this summer and am looking forward to it...believe it or not..hahhaha. Maybe I see ya there!


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## Ralph (20 May 2003)

The recruiting website‘s been updated (since I was there last) - for those who didn‘t know, infantry and artillery now share Phase II (I think that‘s new, right?) and it still says you‘re in for 7 mos. of SLT. Infantry says "if required", but I can only guess that‘s if you‘re already bilingual. 
Cheers,
Ralph.


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## Jungle (20 May 2003)

> for those who didn‘t know, infantry and artillery now share Phase II


All Land Force pers (Army DEU) do CAP (common Army Phase) formerly known as Ph 2.


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## Ralph (21 May 2003)

Shows ya how much I know...I should make a perfect officer


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## benny88 (17 Mar 2008)

Huzzah the necropost! I couldn't find the answer to my question so I'll reopen this thread in hopes of a quick "yes" or "no." I've been through IAP and well remember the 4-week (5 for my platoon :-[ ) "indoctrination period" of being confined to base. My question is: Is there a CB period for BOTP? (2nd half of BMOQ, if you like)  Or am I already considered sufficiently indoctrinated?

  Thanks


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## dwalter (17 Mar 2008)

Well from what I was told by the folks at the CFRC, since IAP and BOTC are back to back, you only go through indoctrination one time. The course carries on after that, and you are 'free' so to speak, on weekends during BOTC. Again, that is what I was told, who knows what the platoon staff might decide to do.


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## benny88 (17 Mar 2008)

Intelligent Design said:
			
		

> Well from what I was told by the folks at the CFRC, since IAP and BOTC are back to back, you only go through indoctrination one time. The course carries on after that, and you are 'free' so to speak, on weekends during BOTC. Again, that is what I was told, who knows what the platoon staff might decide to do.



  No, check out my post. I joined coming right out of high school, and didn't have a long enough summer to do both together, and just did IAP. So I'm going back to to JUST BOTP this summer, and they're not back-to-back.


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## dwalter (18 Mar 2008)

Well I don't know if they will change things around on you, but then again... Things are changing a lot this year. The only way to find out it to get there and see what the platoon staff say right?


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## Lumber (18 Mar 2008)

Intelligent Design said:
			
		

> Well I don't know if they will change things around on you, but then again... Things are changing a lot this year. The only way to find out it to get there and see what the platoon staff say right?



On my BOTP we had every weekend off, except the friday after our last field Ex and another weekend that we got CBd. Oh and we could use the elavators...at first...


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## benny88 (18 Mar 2008)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Oh and we could use the elavators...at first...


    
   Oooh, I remember how sweet those elevators looked after a week in the field with all my kit...*sigh* at least I was only on the 9th floor.
   I only rode the elevators ONCE, because I had to go upstairs with my MCpl, who loudly passed wind and then blamed it on me....memories.


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Nov 2008)

fofo said:
			
		

> i'd like to know what happens when warnings are given towards the end of BOTP....warning related to weapon handling and safety durinng the 2nd last week of BOTP...what are the chances of passing the course despite a warning?



Messed up did you?  Well, my answer is it depends.

- what was this person's performance like before w/wpns?  (ie is there a history)
- did it involve a ND?  If so, what is the CO CFLRS's policy on NDs?  (it should be a charge at this point in time IMO but....I'm not the CO.  However when I left the green machine, that was pretty much standard for ND).
- is the trainee on the Wrng System for other deficiencies/poor performance?  If so, at what level of the warning system?
- details surrounding the event ( was there potential for injury to self/others/property, was it inside an area where the wpn was already supposed to be clear, or on an attack, etc).

That is my answer.  *not enough info, each case is different*


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## benny88 (18 Nov 2008)

fofo said:
			
		

> i'd like to know what happens when warnings are given towards the end of BOTP....warning related to weapon handling and safety durinng the 2nd last week of BOTP...what are the chances of passing the course despite a warning?



As Eye in the Sky said, could you elaborate? In addition to the questions he asked, what was the extent of the warning? IIRC, CFLRS has as pretty standardized disciplinary system. Was it a verbal "Don't f*cking do that again." a "swipe" or a "counselling"? Also, how long ago was the incident? If it was something as serious as a charge coming up the pipe, they won't hide it from you, you will know ASAP. So my guess if you haven't been told exactly what will happen in a reasonable amount of time would be that you got off with a verbal tongue-lashing and have been sent on your way.


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Nov 2008)

Well that depends on what kind of 'warning' the trainee received, referring to what benny88 said above.   ;D

(On a side note, they don't go on many field trips  on BOTP.  ;D  You mean field exercises, called a field ex, or FTX)


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Nov 2008)

So 'he/she' got a verbal, meaning it is considered dealt with unless it happens again.

If it does happen again, the candidate will move up on the warning system to the next, or higher, level.  

Wpns safety is of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE.  Why?

This is the first reason that comes to my mind.  







I was at his funeral.  He is never coming back.


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## benny88 (18 Nov 2008)

fofo said:
			
		

> warnings were verbal in nature and it was said that upon repitition, the candidate may be recourses...ive read a lot of threads and a lot of times ive read that warnings towards the end of BOTP may mean stressing candidates out in order to help them put their acts together and also that BMOQ is designed to help you pass!!! unless candidates lack enthusiasm and motivation or for medical reasons.



If you are on your way to a recourse, it will be a more formal process than your instructor just warning you verbally. That doesn't mean that this person shouldn't clean up their act, but I wouldn't panic about it. Soldier on and try to fix mistakes. And don't look too deeply into the "stressing towards the end of BOTP." The instructors are not evil masterminds. Perhaps you're referring to the stress you will face on Ex-Vimy, but that will be within the parameters of the exercise, the instructors don't mind-f**k Officer Cadets for fun.


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## benny88 (18 Nov 2008)

fofo, listen carefully,

   If serious disciplinary action like a recourse is possible, *you will be informed.* There's no use dwelling on it, and there's even less use asking the forum, because we have limited knowledge of the situation. Also, pay more attention to Eye in the Sky's correction. It's not a "Farnham jolly lorry ride in the park" it's an exercise.


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Nov 2008)

fofo said:
			
		

> given the fact that these 3 simultaneous warnings came together towards the end of BOTP and also that it was the first time that the candidate was given warnings!! what are the candidate's chances of passing the course...Afterall the candidate is still under triaining and that the weapon was pointed and not triggered...and by field trip i meant the Farnham trip...I am pretty concerned as to what is going to happen next...i hope and wish, recourse is not likely to happen!



If all that has happened to date was a verbal warning, I would suggest that its not going any further.  (Of course, that is advice given on an Internet site from me, and I  am a 14 hour drive from CFLRS.  I am not there) but its *seems* like it is staying at the verbal warning stage at this point.

Instead of focusing on 'what might happen', focus on making sure it doesn't happen again and understanding WHY weapons safety is taken so seriously.  *People can, and have, died*.

If you just finished Vimy last week or something and are back at the Mega now, and this happened last week, I would think that if more was going to happen than what did, it would have started by now.  Thats a guess.  If that is the case, you may see something on your weekly assessment, or Course Report or something of that nature in the form of a generic statement.  "OCdt Bloggins must always pay strict attention to weapons safety at all times".  

If you want to get more specific, feel free to PM.  I am sure benny88 would reply to a PM as well, and...he's been at CFLRS since I left there I think.  *more current info*.

Breathe in.  Relax.  Learn from the mistake.  Dust yourself off.  Tuck the lesson away.  Carry on.


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## fofo (18 Nov 2008)

none


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## aesop081 (18 Nov 2008)

fofo said:
			
		

> you *r* *rite* benny...*wts* the point worrying when the outcome is not in my hands...*i m* not the candidate nor is there anything i can do to help the candidate except be patient and wait for the weekend..and just to let you know i know that when recourse is *underconsideratio**n*, the candidate is supposed to* b* informed like the one i am talking about...he was told that upon *repitition* of those mistakes, he'll be asked to recourse...
> Thankyou Eye in the Sky...*uve* been a great help



An English or typing coach would ge a great help too.......


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