# Door Gunner



## jrhume

*The Door Gunner*

He walks the path along the Wall, stepping back once more,
treads again the landing skid, and chopper cabin floor,
smells jet fuel and engine oil - scents buried deep in his brain -
stinking paddies and diesel smoke, gun metal steaming in rain.
Out of the past, the squeal of track, thud-thud of cannonade,
and over all - sight, sound and smell - thump of rotor blades. 

He stops before the tall black panel listing the dead of his year,
traces names, recalls lost faces and the coppery taste of fear.
Pilots, gunners, and crewchiefs, deaths carved out in black,
the touch of cool dark stone sends memories flooding back.
Fates decided in dust and smoke, sent home in a casket of metal,
or, perhaps, a soldier's grave, unknown - at the edge of battle.

Strangers once, ranked all about, now a brotherhood of names,
met, perhaps, over there, in the course of the old grim games?
Infantrymen perched in the door, feet on the skid - **** just below -
locked and loaded, going in hot, death waiting - no one could know.
Did he see them come back - blood-soaked, muddy, and broken -
carried by men who return to the battle, sorrows forever unspoken?

In a landing zone torn by tracers, a man is hit, down on his knees. 
The gunner is firing - weapon bucking - ripping the green trees.
Weeping, he steps back from the Wall.
Noise and shooting fade away.    
A good woman holds him tightly.
It's okay.
It's okay.  


©  JR Hume, November, 2000

Military poetry, anyone?  Mr. Kirkpatrick, what about this one?


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## jrhume

*The Door Gunner*

He walks the path along the Wall, stepping back once more,
treads again the landing skid, and chopper cabin floor,
smells jet fuel and engine oil - scents buried deep in his brain -
stinking paddies and diesel smoke, gun metal steaming in rain.
Out of the past, the squeal of track, thud-thud of cannonade,
and over all - sight, sound and smell - thump of rotor blades. 

He stops before the tall black panel listing the dead of his year,
traces names, recalls lost faces and the coppery taste of fear.
Pilots, gunners, and crewchiefs, deaths carved out in black,
the touch of cool dark stone sends memories flooding back.
Fates decided in dust and smoke, sent home in a casket of metal,
or, perhaps, a soldier's grave, unknown - at the edge of battle.

Strangers once, ranked all about, now a brotherhood of names,
met, perhaps, over there, in the course of the old grim games?
Infantrymen perched in the door, feet on the skid - **** just below -
locked and loaded, going in hot, death waiting - no one could know.
Did he see them come back - blood-soaked, muddy, and broken -
carried by men who return to the battle, sorrows forever unspoken?

In a landing zone torn by tracers, a man is hit, down on his knees. 
The gunner is firing - weapon bucking - ripping the green trees.
Weeping, he steps back from the Wall.
Noise and shooting fade away.    
A good woman holds him tightly.
It's okay.
It's okay.  


©  JR Hume, November, 2000

Military poetry, anyone?  Mr. Kirkpatrick, what about this one?


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## stukirkpatrick

Thats a good poem.

I‘m bound to hear more poetry on Sunday, day for the Scottish Poet, Robbie Burns.

mmmm...haggis...  :blotto:


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## stukirkpatrick

Thats a good poem.

I‘m bound to hear more poetry on Sunday, day for the Scottish Poet, Robbie Burns.

mmmm...haggis...  :blotto:


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## jrhume

Thanks, Kirkpatrick.

I‘ve replaced it with a Vietnam poem I wrote some years ago.  The forum seems like a good spot for military poetry.  But . . . maybe not.

Jim


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## jrhume

Thanks, Kirkpatrick.

I‘ve replaced it with a Vietnam poem I wrote some years ago.  The forum seems like a good spot for military poetry.  But . . . maybe not.

Jim


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## mattoigta

I love military poetry; great stuff keep it coming


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## mattoigta

I love military poetry; great stuff keep it coming


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## Franko

Robbie Burns Day has been cancelled here due to ongoing ops   

Regards


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## Franko

Robbie Burns Day has been cancelled here due to ongoing ops   

Regards


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## Pikache

I think this thread belongs in the Canadian Military Author forum.


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## Pikache

I think this thread belongs in the Canadian Military Author forum.


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## jrhume

Well, I put it in "Off Topic" because I‘m not a "Candadian Army Author".  LOL.

I‘ll sling a few in here and see how they fly.


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## EStrike101

Anyone have specific info on this? I know that I have to be a reservist, does anyone know basic info on this? I tried search but only found on tread on it "Mission specialist??" and it didn't have enough info on it.

I want to know how long do I have to be in reserve, what kind of training do I have to finish and such... 

I was also thinking that we pull out in 2011 and would not need them?


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## Strike

For as long as we have helicopters in Afghanistan we will need door gunners.  There are both reserve and reg force door gunners.  It all depends on who is available.

It is not a trade but a specialty and a door gunner is a qualified infantryman.  That means that you will have to finish your trade training before even being considered for the specialty.  On top of that, operational experience is an asset.  It's not a must, but is highly recommended and someone with a tour under their belt will take precedence in selection over someone without.  Of course, then the member has to go through various gunnery courses, including door gunnery and not all will make it.  Ability is not the only factor.  Attitude is considered as well.  The member has to be able to work independently as well as with a small group.  The Air Force (and Tac Hel generally) is a pretty strange beast and we don't have the same mentality as those who slog around in the dirt all day.  It can be a little hard for those who have time in to adjust to the Tac Hel way of thinking.

As for who to talk to, get in first, do the time, get trade qualified and hopefully there will still be a need to have infantry qualified as door gunners when you're ready.

Hope this helps.


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## EStrike101

Thank you, that helps ALOT.


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## agruntagain

Anyone know where I can get some info on the door gunners course?


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## CBAtt

I was at the recruiters on friday and asked about this question. He said the person who gets to do this as a secondry task is the Airborne Electronic Sensor Operator...
Just would like to share that..


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## Eye In The Sky

I'll have to tell you your recruiter is wrong.  AES Ops do door gunnery, but on the Sea King w/ a C6 (MH AES Ops).  I don't know of any MH AES Ops that are working with Tac Hel as Door Gnrs at all, which is to say that none are.  There are a variety of reasons for this, none of them relevant to this topic.

Now, just to add to that...Strike is a Tac Hel type.  If it were me, I'd listen to what Strike has to say about Tac Hel type stuff.

 :2c:


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## CBAtt

Totaly, Was just stating that I asked and thats what the recruiter said. Also, my recruiter said SAR Tech was closed and then the other one said couple spots were open still.


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## SeanNewman

In my small slice of experience, I can say that I saw a lot of Reg Force troops get mighty pissed off when this "go" first came out as Reservist-only.

Everyone understands the value in Reserves, especially with sending up reinforcements to fill the ranks, but I can fully understand why they would be p!ssed off.  

Putting myself in a Reg Force troop's boots...here I am_ fully_ committed to my country, and then the perception would very much be that that came CF who I decided to commit everything to went and went a trade with a perception as a sweet one available only to part-timers.


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## medaid

Yes... Because the Reservisits who are on ROTOs right next to their Reg F brethren, or who works to contribute to society, and works again to contribute to the defence of that society, is in no way fully comittied to Canada or the CF... :


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## Michael OLeary

That's the great thing about a dead horse, you can beat it and beat it and it never goes away.


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## SeanNewman

MedTech,

You're barking up the wrong tree here.  I've been in the mo-litia myself, and now that I'm in the Regs of course I know that Reservists who have died on tour have committed more to Canada than we alive in the Regs have.

However, I will go to bat for those Reg Force troops who felt ripped off.  Think about it, would you not be torqued that they made something available (especially a "go" with such a seemingly high cool factor) to people who did not commit as much as you?

Not talking about the Reservists who die on tour, not talking about those full-time Reservists who try harder than some Reg Force guys, I'm saying that for the majority of Reg Force troops who give up more of their life than Reservists, it's quite the kick in the junk and I think they have a right to gripe about this one.


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## Michael OLeary

I'm curious, exactly what do you think a Regular Force soldier does that makes you think he or she would deserve to have a sense of entitlement to choose their own taskings over the decisions of the chain of command to allocate positions to Reservists?  What if they're planning to get out right after their tour, do they still have the same right of entitlement? Or is simply having a Reg Force enrollment enough to think one should have such perks?


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## George Wallace

Petamocto said:
			
		

> MedTech,
> 
> You're barking up the wrong tree here.  I've been in the mo-litia myself, and now that I'm in the Regs of course I know that Reservists who have died on tour have committed more to Canada than we alive in the Regs have.
> 
> However, I will go to bat for those Reg Force troops who felt ripped off.  Think about it, would you not be torqued that they made something available (especially a "go" with such a seemingly high cool factor) to people who did not commit as much as you?
> 
> Not talking about the Reservists who die on tour, not talking about those full-time Reservists who try harder than some Reg Force guys, I'm saying that for the majority of Reg Force troops who give up more of their life than Reservists, it's quite the kick in the junk and I think they have a right to gripe about this one.



And I would condemn you for looking at the situation through blinders.  You have taken a rather narrow view on the situation.  The Comd of LFCA who initiated the role and assigned it, took Reservists who where on Work Up Trg for a ROTO, but on the 10% List.  He found an opportunity to give them a validation for their training, volunteering to give up their time, and fill a role that was just coming online.  He also dedicated a certain Unit to be re-roled into this employment.  

I really don't know of any Ref Force unit that is roled for this type of employment.  

I could change the track here, with your displayed attitude, and ask you if we should take away the "Jump" status of certain Reserve Units.

If anyone is barking up the wrong tree, it just may be you.


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## SeanNewman

I haven't once said that I disagree with the CoC's decision; all I have said is that I fully understand why a Reg Force soldier would be p!ssed about it (and I have heard more than a dozen coffee room discussions about this).

As you said, this topic has already been beaten into submission and I really have nothing new.  Just the typical for Regs:

1. Gives up almost his entire life living away from his family and friends where he grew up;
2. Away from his wife and kids more often;
3. More than likely has to live in a place he doesn't like quality-of-life wise; and
4. By his very nature is more committed because it's full time.  His 25 year career will entail him only caring about one thing, not sharing interest with anything else.  All his qualifications will be Army-focused, and every book he reads about work will be about the Army. 

That's where the Reg Force soldier usually gets his "greater-than-thou" mindset.  It's not literally thinking he is better than a Reservist, it's just that it's obvious: If person X is fully committed to something, and person Y is committed to two things, how can you make an argument that person Y is as committed to what X is committed to?

MedTech,

Again, it has nothing to do with attitude, it's just sharing with you the gripes that I know some Reg Force troops have.  The decision did not impact me on a personal level one bit, but it did impact people who had worked for me in the past.  And it's my responsibility to understand what they gripe about and their concerns.


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## George Wallace

OK

Let him/her put in their name for JTF or CSOR.


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## George Wallace

I'm sorry that there is an "opinion" the "X" is better than "Y".  I guess some need to do that "Differential Training" over again.  

I am currently in a Trade where 50% (Approx) of every Tour from the last 15 to 20 years has been filled by Reservists, with exactly the same training as their Reg Force counterparts; so don't use the words "commitment" or "dedication" to justify the bitching of some poor, down in the dumps, member of the CF, Reg or Reserve.


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## Towards_the_gap

I (as reg force) would look at it this way...(and with no offense meant to our mo brethren)

Where are you more likely to have an exciting experience? Door gunner or BG/OMLT? BG/OMLT, yes you most likely will find yourself hunkered down behind a wall with AK rounds splashing all around you wishing you had listened to your parents..

Door gunner, hmm well on the numerous rides I took on the kandahar express, whether on yank, brit or dutch flights, I was never fired upon. Once on the ground however, terry taliban took pleasure in taking aim...*
I see it as kinda like  the CP jobs. Looks cool, seems cool, but in all reality, pretty boring. Let the reserves have it. 

* I will ad a caveat that I am more than willing to be proven wrong by any tac hel types who have been overseas lately


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## brihard

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I (as reg force) would look at it this way...(and with no offense meant to our mo brethren)
> 
> Where are you more likely to have an exciting experience? Door gunner or BG/OMLT? BG/OMLT, yes you most likely will find yourself hunkered down behind a wall with AK rounds splashing all around you wishing you had listened to your parents..
> 
> Door gunner, hmm well on the numerous rides I took on the kandahar express, whether on yank, brit or dutch flights, I was never fired upon. Once on the ground however, terry taliban took pleasure in taking aim...*
> I see it as kinda like  the CP jobs. Looks cool, seems cool, but in all reality, pretty boring. Let the reserves have it.
> 
> * I will ad a caveat that I am more than willing to be proven wrong by any tac hel types who have been overseas lately



Agreed.

Look at it in terms of training delta, and of skills/experience shelved in filling a spot. A job like door gunner is going to require _anyone_ filling it to be trained to it from scratch. You could put a reg in that spot, but then it means his couple of years of full time training and experience - working with a real rifle company, with LAVs, with airmobile, with the more up to date kit and TTPs - is essentially 'wasted' for that tour. The guy who's slogged through RegF trainign exercises designed to turn him into an effective rifleman within a rifle platoon suddenly renders that training redundant by going into a spot where it's not made use of.

A reservist going on tour, however, doesn't come in through the door with most of that infantry training applicable to the contemporary operating environment. He might have a few years of weekend and summer exercises under his belt of recce, raids and platoon attacks, but it doesn't come clsoe to the skillset the reg has. So when the reservist suddenly gets 'name-out-of-a-hat'ted into a door gunner spot, less preexisting training value is lost.

Looking at it another way, if you were a rifle company commander, who would you rather give up to a spot like that- one of your Reg F corporals with a tour already under his belt, real combat experience, plenty of time working with LAVs and other RegF assets, and who has known guys in his company for years? Or a reservist who's been with you for maybe a few months and still has a lot to hoist aboard in operating in a rifle platoon or an OMLT det? You lose less of your investment by sending the reservist.

Yup, door gunner sounds like it was a pretty jammy go according to one of my buddies, but putting reservists in that spot is making most efficient use of manpower.

That said, if I were a RegF Pte or Cpl passed up for a tour riding around in Griffons in favour of a reservist, I'd probably bitch about it too. But my bitch would be grounded in self interest, not cold logic.


*I realize a lot of generalizations were made in this post. Please don't beat me.


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## The_Pipes

Petamocto said:
			
		

> 2. Away from his wife and kids more often;



I'm going to have to disagree greatly with this point of yours. After doing over a year of workup training followed by a 7 month tour. For workup I was only able to see my wife strictly on weekends in which I would drive 7 hours each way only to spend Saturday together.... where she would work for 8 hours during the day. Additionally spending the same time away in Texas, spending the same time away in Wainwright. Whereas the Reg Force counterparts most evenings during the week could go home to their loved ones. The real kicker was the forced family day in Petawawa where all of us Reservists had to wait for the end of the festivities to be able to finally drive those 7 hours to see our wives and families for the weekend.


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## Jammer

...don't forget about those of us posted (reg) on imposed restriction. 
I too spent only weekends wiht my family.


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## George Wallace

Brihard said:
			
		

> A reservist going on tour, however, doesn't come in through the door with most of that infantry training applicable to the contemporary operating environment. He might have a few years of weekend and summer exercises under his belt of recce, raids and platoon attacks, but it doesn't come clsoe to the skillset the reg has. So when the reservist suddenly gets 'name-out-of-a-hat'ted into a door gunner spot, less preexisting training value is lost.
> 
> *I realize a lot of generalizations were made in this post. Please don't beat me.



Not bad post, but the above paragraph about the Reservist coming through the door ...etc. etc. is crap.  They probably have more experience than the Reg Force members in the platoon fresh out of BMQ and DP1.  Many may even be on their second or third Tour as well......and yes there have been a lot of generalizations in this discussion.


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## brihard

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Not bad post, but the above paragraph about the Reservist coming through the door ...etc. etc. is crap.  They probably have more experience than the Reg Force members in the platoon fresh out of BMQ and DP1.  Many may even be on their second or third Tour as well......and yes there have been a lot of generalizations in this discussion.



Of the roughly 40 members of my regiment who deployed on 3-08, the majority of us had no prior operational experience. Off the top of my head I can think of one guy who'd previously done Afghanistan as battlegroup and a few who had done Bosnia in various positions. I'd say perhaps fifteen percent of our guys had previous tours.

Also, reserve training tends to focus very much on the basics- we spend a lot of time doing section attacks, recce patrols, and so on and so forth. We don't do much live fire stuff at all. We don't do much training in less traditional types of ops that are more applicable to the COE- urban patrolling, cordon and search, mechanized or airmobile work, etc etc. Mostly what we walk into workup with is basic soldier skills- the reserves have little training time _or real subject matter expertise_ to impart much more than that on us. 

Further, look at the workup timelines. For 3-08 the battlegroup got 16-18 months of workup training, with the exception of a small number of individual augmentees who came in later. By the time stream 2 (the bulk of the reserve augmentation) showed up in September, the battlegroup had, at least at the platoon and perhaps company level, been training together for most of half a year already. The workup training timelines for stream 2 pers have shrunk as well, so while battlegroup is still getting a long workup training, reserve augmentees for stream 2 are showing up a number of months closer to deployment now. I think it is very fair to say that there is a significant skill and training delta between a reservist coming in and a reg who is already a member of the rifle platoon over a year out from deployment, even if he has just come off his basic.  The experience differential between a reservist who's been doing class A and _relevant_ class B for 3 or 4 years is very quickly made up by someone who's spent even six or eight months in the regs.

The main point I'm trying to make is that, early to midway in the workup training process, it's less of a loss of training investment to task a reservist out to another organization that's headhunting than it is to send someone from the regs. And I would would also posit that if a spot like door gunner were to be given to RegF Inf, it probably would not be that guy right off his BMQ/DP1 who gets it.

I think it's a bit questionable of you to say that my comments are 'crap'. I don't just make this stuff up. I'm well aware of the nature of the reservists going on tour. By the time 1-10 is out the door, my regiment will have sent well over 80 to Afghanistan, many of whom I've worked with or have trained.

Absolutely, reservists can and have integrated well into battlegroup, and have also formed other organizations like CIMIC and PSYOPS that have frequently found themselves in some tough spots. But also realize that most of the guys going to these spots are either getting a _lot_ of workup training, or have gone through selection to pick the best candidates for these organizations (e.g., PSYOPS). In the _majority_ of cases I thinik it's fair to say that it is less value lost to pull a reservist from battlegroup and send them to a random spot than a trained and likely experienced RegF infanteer.


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## Strike

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> * I will ad a caveat that I am more than willing to be proven wrong by any tac hel types who have been overseas lately


Good luck trying to get that info from any of the Tac Hel types.  That would be a huge breach of opsec.


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## Loachman

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Door gunner, hmm well on the numerous rides I took on the kandahar express, whether on yank, brit or dutch flights, I was never fired upon.



I will only point out to you that these were examples of one type of mission.

Some of the others have been reported in the media, and have been copied somewhere on this Site.


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## Fishbone Jones

Petamocto said:
			
		

> I haven't once said that I disagree with the CoC's decision; all I have said is that I fully understand why a Reg Force soldier would be p!ssed about it (and I have heard more than a dozen coffee room discussions about this).
> 
> As you said, this topic has already been beaten into submission and I really have nothing new.  Just the typical for Regs:
> 
> 1. Gives up almost his entire life living away from his family and friends where he grew up;
> 2. Away from his wife and kids more often;
> 3. More than likely has to live in a place he doesn't like quality-of-life wise; and
> 4. By his very nature is more committed because it's full time.  His 25 year career will entail him only caring about one thing, not sharing interest with anything else.  All his qualifications will be Army-focused, and every book he reads about work will be about the Army.
> 
> That's where the Reg Force soldier usually gets his "greater-than-thou" mindset.  It's not literally thinking he is better than a Reservist, it's just that it's obvious: If person X is fully committed to something, and person Y is committed to two things, how can you make an argument that person Y is as committed to what X is committed to?
> 
> MedTech,
> 
> Again, it has nothing to do with attitude, it's just sharing with you the gripes that I know some Reg Force troops have.  The decision did not impact me on a personal level one bit, but it did impact people who had worked for me in the past.  And it's my responsibility to understand what they gripe about and their concerns.



Proof that self entitled dinosaurs still walk the earth.


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## ArmyRick

This seems to be a reg f vs reserve flame out again.


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## Danjanou

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> This seems to be a reg f vs reserve flame out again.



Yup and now being watched closely by Mods not yet engaged. Play nice kiddies. I for one do not want to see a potentially useful and informative thread tossed.


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## brihard

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> This seems to be a reg f vs reserve flame out again.



Nah, not really. More, I think, an honest look at capabilities and effective use of manpower. 

Most regs I've run into don't have this sense of entitlement; they just have jobs to do and do them. The problems lie, these days, with individuals- I don't think it's particularly systemic anymore. There are plenty of dickheads in the reserves, too.

Let's try to get it back on track. We've got an interesting conversation going.


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## George Wallace

I agree with Brihard.  I am in agreement with him in his posts, but it seems we misinterpreted a few minor points, while in reality were saying the same thing.


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## Kat Stevens

recceguy said:
			
		

> Proof that self entitled dinosaurs still walk the earth.



Why shouldn't a guy feel entitled?  If he's spent a pile of years doing all and sundry crap jobs in the battalion/regiment, without (excessive) complaint, why shouldn't he feel a little chipped off when a jammy go comes up?  Don't tell me you've spent as long as you have in the green tuxedo without ever once asking "what's in it for me?"


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## Teflon

Can't we all just get along?


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## Fishbone Jones

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Why shouldn't a guy feel entitled?  If he's spent a pile of years doing all and sundry crap jobs in the battalion/regiment, without (excessive) complaint, why shouldn't he feel a little chipped off when a jammy go comes up?  Don't tell me you've spent as long as you have in the green tuxedo without ever once asking "what's in it for me?"



Kat,

You missed the point. Wondering 'what's in it for me' is one thing. Believing that you are entitled to the job because _you believe_ you are sooooo much better than anyone else in the world, when you clearly aren't, is the problem. Not being able to look past yourself in the mirror, and see anyone else for their own attributes, and what they can bring to the table, is being the self entitled dinosaur. 

We have individuals here screaming about staying in our lanes and questioning government policy. Follow your order into the mouth of hell, because that's what you signed up to do, and all of that. Then when a job comes along, that was studied and detertmined that the best candidates were a certain group the subscriber doesn't like, they backpedal on all their previous conflab and try to say because they don't like it, NOW it's OK to go against policy and question our superiors position and decision. Then denegrate and demean the contribution that target group makes to further their flawed argument.


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## dregeneau

I admit having a lack of knowledge on the subject.

But I am curious, when did this specific position begin? Was there no role in the Canadian Forces of a door gunner in our griffins before Afghanistan?

This isn't an attempt to get the thread back on topic, just a couple of honest questions.


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## Nfld Sapper

No need before IIRC.....


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## Loachman

*G*riff*o*n.

And no. FEs and Mission Specialists did door gunnery.

And only with C6s.


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## tree hugger

I heard that a new trade is opening up called "Door Gunner".  Can anyone confirm or deny this?


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## Strike

Maybe you should search "Door Gunner" on the site.


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## Container

tree hugger said:
			
		

> I heard that a new trade is opening up called "Door Gunner".  Can anyone confirm or deny this?



I heard the training PO's were "Candidate demonstrates propensity to 'Get Some'" and "candidate doesn't lead smaller, slower targets as much".

And finally "requests that field reporters do stories on him because he's so %&*#ing good".


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## Strike

And because a certain person got all pissy because I crapped on them for looking at the first post that came up after their search for "door gunner" here you go:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/87750/post-857469.html#msg857469


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## The Gues-|-

tree hugger said:
			
		

> I heard that a new trade is opening up called "Door Gunner".  Can anyone confirm or deny this?



There's talk, that's about it.


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## FragSlag5

There wont be a "Door Gunner" trade, but attached postings for a period of time around 2 years.  Only available to REG force Combat Arms tho.  

If you need any more info let me know


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## Krb005

I'm an infantry soldier with 3rcr. Starting the door gunner course in September.  Just looking for any information and knowledge that will help me going into the course. Also I've been told that it's not common for a no hook private to get this course, it's something that Sargents and warrants fight to get. Is that true?


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## jollyjacktar

Can't say, but good luck.  I'm jealous.


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## Journeyman

I voted for "Info"   :nod:


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## Loachman

I removed the poll.

Many door gunners in Afghanistan were Reservists. Seeing people in flying suits with balmorals, glengarries, and other "funny hats" was quite interesting.

You should enjoy this, Krb005. Very few get such an opportunity.


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## Drew Grey

Why is this such a coveted position?


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## Good2Golf

Loachman said:
			
		

> I removed the poll.
> 
> Many door gunners in Afghanistan were Reservists. Seeing people in flying suits with balmorals, glengarries, and other "funny hats" was quite interesting.
> 
> You should enjoy this, Krb005. Very few get such an opportunity.



...and Cpl seemed to be the median rank.


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## Loachman

Drew Grey said:
			
		

> Why is this such a coveted position?



Because the fortunate holders of these positions get to be integral members of four- or five-person Helicopter crews, shoot 7.62mm or .50 calibre machineguns at ground targets, and eat, sleep, and be treated well.


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## SeaKingTacco

Loachman said:
			
		

> Because the fortunate holders of these positions get to be integral members of four- or five-person Helicopter crews, shoot 7.62mm or .50 calibre machineguns at ground targets, and eat, sleep, and be treated well.



Door gunnery is one of the more fun things that we do on the Sea King, too. Just for interest sake, the AESOp is our primary gunner, with the ACSOs also trained to act as gunners in emergency situations.


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## daftandbarmy

Drew Grey said:
			
		

> Why is this such a coveted position?



Because: Full Metal Jacket https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

(You wouldn't understand, it's an Infantry thing  )


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## MilEME09

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Door gunnery is one of the more fun things that we do on the Sea King, too. Just for interest sake, the AESOp is our primary gunner, with the ACSOs also trained to act as gunners in emergency situations.



I would argue it's the most wanted position in a Sea King for when the duct tape starts coming apart >


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## dimsum

Loachman said:
			
		

> I removed the poll.
> 
> Many door gunners in Afghanistan were Reservists. Seeing people in flying suits with balmorals, glengarries, and other "funny hats" was quite interesting.
> 
> You should enjoy this, Krb005. Very few get such an opportunity.



Agreed.


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## Canuck_55555

I have looked at the forces website and have not found this as a specific trade. can any of give some info, it would be very helpful.


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## Loachman

It is no more an occupation than any other Infantry (or other) qualification. People are selected to fill high-readiness slots as required, then trained, and, perhaps, deployed. Once their deployment is over, so is their door-gunnery "career".


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## Canuck_55555

How to be one?


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## Loachman

Be in the right unit at the right time and have a decent professional reputation.


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## SeaKingTacco

Canuck_55555 said:
			
		

> How to be one?


Or, become an AESOp and get posted to one of two Maritime Helicopter Squadrons. Amongst other things, you will also door gun...


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## Eye In The Sky

Will there be 'ramp gunnery' at some point in the future for MH folks as well?


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## SeaKingTacco

That is certainly the goal. It will make crewing the helicopter interesting....


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## Good2Golf

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> That is certainly the goal. It will make crewing the helicopter interesting....



It’ll give new meaning to the phrase, “Here, hold my beer. I’ve got this...”  :nod:

G2G


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## SeaKingTacco

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> It’ll give new meaning to the phrase, “Here, hold my beer. I’ve got this...”  :nod:
> 
> G2G



We aren't really established for routinely having a 5th crew member onboard.

Not that I can envision a scenario where, routinely, we fly around with a two gun setup.


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