# Options while waiting for house to sell



## dimsum (24 Feb 2011)

A quick search didn't get come up with anything, so here we go:

I'm moving to Victoria from Comox fairly soon; report date is mid-Apr.  Since it's early in the "posting season", I haven't had much luck in getting my place looked at and my HHT is coming up very soon.  So, aside from putting conditional offers down or renting while waiting for my house to sell, does anyone know if I could stay in Quarters (ie. the Wardroom) while waiting for all of this to go through?  If it's possible to do that and have my stuff in Comox so that it's one move when I do buy, that would be perfect.

Any advice would be helpful, thanks!


----------



## Occam (24 Feb 2011)

Unless something's changed recently (and plenty of things have!), one of the basic tenets of cost moves was "Don't go on your HHT until you have a house that's sold at origin".  Going on an HHT without at least a tentative closing date is pointless as it makes the process of making an offer that much more difficult.

I'm pretty sure you can leave your F&E at origin pending the sale of the house while you carry on to destination and stay in quarters (if they're available).  Then you can take advantage of your HHT when you actually have all the pieces of the puzzle.

Have you called your Brookfield rep?


----------



## George Wallace (24 Feb 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> Unless something's changed recently (and plenty of things have!), one of the basic tenets of cost moves was "Don't go on your HHT until you have a house that's sold at origin".  Going on an HHT without at least a tentative closing date is pointless as it makes the process of making an offer that much more difficult.



 :-\  

I find this a rather strange philosophy.  I am sure that I am not the only one here who has gone on a HHT long before my current residence was put on the market.  I have found a new home, put in an offer and had a closing date established to coincide with my Report Date.  I am sure that ninety per cent of the other members here have also done the same with no problems selling a house on Posting.  One has to always remember "Location, Location, Location" when buying.  You have to look at what the resale factors are going to be on every Posting.  In many cases where people have run into problems in the past lay in the fact that they bought a hobby farm well away from their place of work or that they bought an outrageously expensive home with no thought to resale on Posting.  Unfortunately, the downturn in a housing market does occasionally happen and some will be caught in that, but for the most part if one keeps "Location, Location, Location" and "Resale" in mind, they should have no problems come Posting Season.




			
				Occam said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure you can leave your F&E at origin pending the sale of the house while you carry on to destination and stay in quarters (if they're available).  Then you can take advantage of your HHT when you actually have all the pieces of the puzzle.
> 
> Have you called your Brookfield rep?



This makes sense if you have a problem selling.  Once upon a time, I think you were permitted up to two years to finalize a sale on Posting.  I am not sure what the rules are now, so the advice to see the Brookfield Rep would probably be the best advice as to finding out what your entitlements and options are.  Your Gaining Unit may also have some input as to what you will be able to or not do.


----------



## agc (24 Feb 2011)

I can't seem to find a link for you on the internet.

On the DWAN navigate to http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/dgcb/dcba/pdf/Aide_Memoire08_e.pdf

It's an aide memoire for certain benefits.  See Ch2 Sec 3.  You should be able to request Temporary Relocation (TR), while you wait for your house to sell.


----------



## captloadie (24 Feb 2011)

The issue you might run into is that if you don't take a HHT before your posting date, you won't be eligble for many of the benefits (transport, hotel, meals, etc.) because you are already at your new place of duty. The other issue is whether your new chain of command will give you the time off to look for housing once you are there. This is especially true I believe if you aren't leaving dependants behind.


----------



## agc (24 Feb 2011)

Captloadie brings up a good point about dependants.  If you don't have any, you can't have TR benefits.  You should still be able to request a room in the quarters at your own expense, though.

According to 8.1.03 of the Relocation Directive, you still have two years from COS or shipping of your HG&E (whichever is later) to finalize the purchase and claim the expenses.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/rel-rei/aps-paa-2009/chapter-chapitre-08-eng.asp#art-08-03-02


----------



## Occam (24 Feb 2011)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I find this a rather strange philosophy.  I am sure that I am not the only one here who has gone on a HHT long before my current residence was put on the market.  I have found a new home, put in an offer and had a closing date established to coincide with my Report Date.  I am sure that ninety per cent of the other members here have also done the same with no problems selling a house on Posting.



When I moved almost three years ago, the RLRS consultant really emphasized that taking an HHT prior to a conditional sale at origin was always risky.  Even if you wrote a conditional offer (pending the firm sale at origin) on a home at destination, you could be left in the position where the origin sale falls through causing you to back out of the destination purchase - and causing a wasted HHT.  You would be then forced to purchase a home at destination using travel on your own dime - or as I've seen some people do, buy a home sight unseen.  Crazy, yes, I know...but I personally know people who have done it.



			
				captloadie said:
			
		

> The issue you might run into is that if you don't take a HHT before your posting date, you won't be eligble for many of the benefits (transport, hotel, meals, etc.) because you are already at your new place of duty.



If you're bringing a dependant on HHT who is still at origin, then you still get all of those benefits*.  If you're single, well, you'd already be getting free quarters anyway, and you would still be eligible for car rental if you left your car at origin.  You really didn't want to eat $68/day worth of food anyways, did you?   

*edit:  See CFIRP, Section 11.2 Unaccompanied moves


----------



## captloadie (24 Feb 2011)

If OP has no dependants, then they won't get free rations, and I'm not sure about quarters. Does it fall under the new favourite slogan of "ïts a personal decision" not move their HG&E right away to the new place of duty?

If the timeline is really compressed, as its sounds like in this case, there is no reason not to take a HHT. Other than the waste of funds, which they can't use otherwise, nothing is lost. Once again, that is dependant on the OP being single.


----------



## Occam (24 Feb 2011)

captloadie said:
			
		

> If OP has no dependants, then they won't get free rations, and I'm not sure about quarters. Does it fall under the new favourite slogan of "ïts a personal decision" not move their HG&E right away to the new place of duty?



A single member would get free quarters on an unaccompanied move (see CFIRP 11.2.11 Rations and quarters).  It's not a personal decision to not move HG&E to destination when the home at origin hasn't sold.  I don't know too many people who can carry two mortgages.


----------



## dimsum (24 Feb 2011)

Thanks for the responses; I am single w/o dependants, so since the Brookfield (IRP) coordinator seemed to gloss over that option, it was good to ask here!  I'll talk to them and see what the details are, but so far if it's down to living in the Wardroom or renting a place for the time being, I think I'll pick the Wardroom.


----------



## aesop081 (24 Feb 2011)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Thanks for the responses; I am single w/o dependants, so since the Brookfield (IRP) coordinator seemed to gloss over that option, it was good to ask here!  I'll talk to them and see what the details are, but so far if it's down to living in the Wardroom or renting a place for the time being, I think I'll pick the Wardroom.



Go back to work..........see you at HPMA.


----------



## Pusser (24 Feb 2011)

captloadie said:
			
		

> The issue you might run into is that if you don't take a HHT before your posting date, you won't be eligble for many of the benefits (transport, hotel, meals, etc.) because you are already at your new place of duty. The other issue is whether your new chain of command will give you the time off to look for housing once you are there. This is especially true I believe if you aren't leaving dependants behind.


Not entirely true.  There are HHT benefits available to you after reporting for duty at your new location, including time off  and transportation expenses to go look at houses.


----------



## captloadie (25 Feb 2011)

As I said in my earlier post, getting the time off might be the issue. It is not written in stone that a CO must give you the time for a HHT.


----------



## meni0n (25 Feb 2011)

If you're not buying a place, can't you take a HIT instead of a HHT? I think it's only 5 days and it's just to inspect the quarters or place you will be renting and give you a chance to set up all the other stuff such as electricity etc,


----------



## Occam (25 Feb 2011)

meni0n said:
			
		

> If you're not buying a place, can't you take a HIT instead of a HHT? I think it's only 5 days and it's just to inspect the quarters or place you will be renting and give you a chance to set up all the other stuff such as electricity etc,



That's a Destination Inspection Trip (see CFIRP chap 4), normally three days/nights plus travel time.


----------



## kratz (25 Feb 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> That's a Destination Inspection Trip (see CFIRP chap 4), normally three days/nights plus travel time.



and your spouse is not covered to accompany you during a DIT.


----------



## navymich (25 Feb 2011)

kratz said:
			
		

> and your spouse is not covered to accompany you during a DIT.



According to Chap 4 of CFIRP link above, yes they are covered.  However, the expenses relating to a dependant accompanying you will come out of the Personalized benefit (unless you are a single parent at which time it comes from the customs benefits)

Regarding Dimsum's situation, my thoughts are that if they want him there at a specific time, they will have to accept the fact that he has not yet sold his current residence and there is a chance that he will require time off later down the road to secure a new residence and arrange his move.  Unless I am missing something, it seems to be a simple case of saying "hey new boss, if you want me on that date, can you approve my move and leave for later.  Thank you very much."  Given the fact that his old and new locations are so close in proximity, there definitely won't be much of a travel issue involved.


----------



## dimsum (25 Feb 2011)

airmich said:
			
		

> According to Chap 4 of CFIRP link above, yes they are covered.  However, the expenses relating to a dependant accompanying you will come out of the Personalized benefit (unless you are a single parent at which time it comes from the customs benefits)
> 
> Regarding Dimsum's situation, my thoughts are that if they want him there at a specific time, they will have to accept the fact that he has not yet sold his current residence and there is a chance that he will require time off later down the road to secure a new residence and arrange his move.  Unless I am missing something, it seems to be a simple case of saying "hey new boss, if you want me on that date, can you approve my move and leave for later.  Thank you very much."  Given the fact that his old and new locations are so close in proximity, there definitely won't be much of a travel issue involved.




Does my new boss even need to do that, if I elect to go to single quarters while keeping my house (temporarily) in Comox?  Probably something I want to chat with him/her about one of the days on HHT.


----------



## navymich (25 Feb 2011)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Does my new boss even need to do that, if I elect to go to single quarters while keeping my house (temporarily) in Comox?  Probably something I want to chat with him/her about one of the days on HHT.



Personally, I would talk to him.  Just to keep him in the loop about what is going on and look into the possibility of getting some extra days later when you might need them for your actual move.  I have always found that it's better to let them know ahead of time of a potential situation and then not have a need for it, then spring something on them at the last minute that might have been resolved earlier.


----------



## dimsum (2 Mar 2011)

Again, thanks for the info.  I'm on my HHT now and am looking to put a conditional offer (subj to the sale of my place in Comox), but another wrinkle has come up.  The sellers are looking to sell in the mid-May timeframe, while my report date is mid-Apr.  Since my place hasn't had an offer yet, I'm still planning on staying in quarters, but since the delay could be due to "working out a closing/possession date" rather than "me not being able to sell my current residence in time", does anyone know if the benefits (living in quarters, etc.) will change?  

I'm emailing Brookfield this at the same time, but I've since learned that asking the forum here sometimes gets me better answers!


----------



## Occam (2 Mar 2011)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Again, thanks for the info.  I'm on my HHT now and am looking to put a conditional offer (subj to the sale of my place in Comox), but another wrinkle has come up.  The sellers are looking to sell in the mid-May timeframe, while my report date is mid-Apr.  Since my place hasn't had an offer yet, I'm still planning on staying in quarters, but since the delay could be due to "working out a closing/possession date" rather than "me not being able to sell my current residence in time", does anyone know if the benefits (living in quarters, etc.) will change?
> 
> I'm emailing Brookfield this at the same time, but I've since learned that asking the forum here sometimes gets me better answers!



Your benefits really don't change.  For the explanation below, bear in mind that COS date normally = Reporting date.

Your preference is to request a change of reporting date from your gaining unit.  These are routinely done, and gaining/losing units can negotiate reporting dates up to 30 days either side of the COS date in order to facilitate a door to door move.  More than 30 days requires a change of COS date from the Career Mangler.

Your plan B is to keep the same reporting date, but move into the destination after COS.   This is potentially a little more risky as you run into restrictions on how long your HG&E can remain in SIT (storage in transit), and possibly some other restrictions as well.


----------



## Pusser (2 Mar 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> Your benefits really don't change.  For the explanation below, bear in mind that COS date normally = Reporting date.



Please stop perpetuating this myth!  It causes untold grief to those of us who actually have to administer this program.  The COS date is spot on the calendar where you change from belonging to one unit to belonging to another.  THAT IS IT!  it is nothing more than that.  It is not the day you you leave your old job, the day you start travelling, the day you report at your new job or the day you arrive at your new location, but it may be any one of these things as well.  Your reporting date is *negotiated* between the losing and gaining units and should fall within a window that is 30 days either side of the COS date.  A 60 day window to accomplish everything is normally well within the realm of the possible, but not when people start imposing *artificial* restrictions that have no basis in policy or common sense.


----------



## Occam (2 Mar 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Please stop perpetuating this myth!  It causes untold grief to those of us who actually have to administer this program.  The COS date is spot on the calendar where you change from belonging to one unit to belonging to another.  THAT IS IT!  it is nothing more than that.  It is not the day you you leave your old job, the day you start travelling, the day you report at your new job or the day you arrive at your new location, but it may be any one of these things as well.  Your reporting date is *negotiated* between the losing and gaining units and should fall within a window that is 30 days either side of the COS date.  A 60 day window to accomplish everything is normally well within the realm of the possible, but not when people start imposing *artificial* restrictions that have no basis in policy or common sense.



Aside from stating that the COS date is the spot on the calendar where you change from one unit to another, was that rant really necessary?  If, for example, your COS date is on Saturday July 5, then you had better be at the doorstep of your gaining unit on Monday July 7 *if you do nothing to request a change of reporting date*.  I don't think anyone takes it literally that you're expected to show up to work on the Saturday and expect to clear in.  I made the same distinctions you did, minus the pedantic ranting.


----------



## Pusser (2 Mar 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> Aside from stating that the COS date is the spot on the calendar where you change from one unit to another, was that rant really necessary?  If, for example, your COS date is on Saturday July 5, then you had better be at the doorstep of your gaining unit on Monday July 7 *if you do nothing to request a change of reporting date*.  I don't think anyone takes it literally that you're expected to show up to work on the Saturday and expect to clear in.  I made the same distinctions you did, minus the pedantic ranting.



I'm sorry if you thought mine was a pedantic rant, but it was born of real life experience in dealing with the aftermath of this myth.  When folks go around saying things like, "COS date normally = Reporting date," some other folks take that as gospel and the trouble soon begins.  I've seen both members and the CF basically screwed out of thousands of dollars because of this misunderstanding.  I apologize if I get a little passionate about this.


----------



## QM (3 Mar 2011)

It was minus 28 in Edmonton today. Trying _so_ very hard to work up sympathy for someone moving from Victoria to Comox. Not having much success.


----------



## dimsum (20 Mar 2011)

Thanks for all of the responses.  Slight change of topic, but are there any pers here that are posted to 443, but live in the wardroom?  If so, I have a few questions that I'll PM you.

Thanks again!


----------

