# This is such crap!!!!!!!



## Armymedic (11 Nov 2004)

The Yanks just keep making me glad I am Canadian over and over again....

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2004-11-11-private-ryan_x.htm

So a epic based on history is now considered too indescent in the US to be played on their Veterens Day....



 : : : : :
Are they ever f***ed.


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Nov 2004)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> The Yanks just keep making me glad I am Canadian over and over again....
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2004-11-11-private-ryan_x.htm
> 
> ...



Calm down; the FCC has rules about profanity and gore.  What is appropriate for a 35 year old to watch on TV isn't always appropriate for a 15 year old.


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## 48Highlander (11 Nov 2004)

yeah 'cos 15 year olds are all innocent and virginal and such  :


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## Armymedic (11 Nov 2004)

Mike,
I agree about appropriate for age, but the FCC is the same group who leave shows on like Desperate Housewives at 7 pm, Survivor, and Fear Factor on at 8, and CSI on at 9....

I am pissed at the fact that stations, being afraid of sanctions will not air one of the best films I have ever seen depicting the sacrifices WW2 veterans made. The opening and closing scenes of that movie are the perfect way to honour those men on this day.

What happened to the freedom of speech and the right to chose....you know those same freedoms that the people who died in that NOT being depicted on TV tonight war fought to protect.


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## Scratch_043 (11 Nov 2004)

well, not all of them, I am watching SPR right now on ABC


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## rw4th (11 Nov 2004)

> The Yanks just keep making me glad I am Canadian over and over again....



Yes, I am so proud to be living in the country where you can air Al-Jazeera but not Fox News and Howard Stern has to be delayed by 30 minutes so the content can be censored. Get off your high horse and look around ...


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## aesop081 (11 Nov 2004)

Dont forget Don Cherry on a 7 second delay !!!!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (11 Nov 2004)

Hey, Armymedic, did any Canadian stations show it?


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## JBP (11 Nov 2004)

Well.... Tigerland is on at 12 on channel 39 or "Showcase" if you wanna watch some kinda war movie. I was really looking forward to watching Private Ryan. O-well...

 :'(


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## Cloud Cover (11 Nov 2004)

cbc showed it when they were doing friday night movies over the summer.


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## Armymedic (11 Nov 2004)

No "SPR" on TV here tonight, but I did get to watch Enemy At The Gates earlier this aft on History channel.

I am not so much disapointed by not being able to watch it (I own the vhs an dvd versions in my historical movie collection), as I am by the fact that an excellent war movie is not being shown due to fears of sanctions by a govt agency.


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## Alex252 (12 Nov 2004)

Just finished watching it on ABC. Also just saw Enemy at the Gates and Black Hawk Down recently


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## Recce41 (12 Nov 2004)

Fellas
 Remember The US is (Jesus Land) 80% of the US, I saw a map on CNN after the election. Only Mich, Cal, and other Devil States are not listed. I do agree with 48th. I go over to the High School and Jr High to get my kids and hear kids swear worst. The world has to growup. The FCC, CRTC, etc. has to get with the times. I remember when damn was cut. OOOOO the F word. As for AJ and Fox, AJ does not slam Canada as Fox does.
 The movie should be shown as uncut!  :evil: :tank:


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## Sh0rtbUs (12 Nov 2004)

If they were airing any other kind of movie I would understand, but not SPR. Its excellent because it depicts the realities of war and what those men went through, and the raw humanity that comes out of it. "Inappropriate" language and violence should not be censored, solely because its the best way to emphasize that this is reality, and these are real men, just like you and me. They cry, bond, bleed and yes curse, just like you and me.


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## NavyGrunt (12 Nov 2004)

I may be out to lunch but aI think this may be the knee jerk reaction of some left leaning channels to make the public feel censored. I have a hard time believing the head of the FCC Colin Powells son would charge a station on veterens day for playing SPR. Flashing children during the super bowl is a far cry from playing amovie on TV in th eevening.


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## foerestedwarrior (12 Nov 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Calm down; the FCC has rules about profanity and gore.   What is appropriate for a 35 year old to watch on TV isn't always appropriate for a 15 year old.




it would have been the TV version anyways though. No swearing, but still the gore, even still, could cut out scenes, it wouldn't be the first, nor the last time it is done.


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## Gunnar (12 Nov 2004)

Watching TV with a friend last night, I had the option of watching Loony Toons or Private Ryan.  I saw the Private Ryan listing was for WKBW, and immediately knew it wasn't going to be worth watching - overcensored.  Hell, the US censors boobies fer chrissakes...and most censors aren't too sure of the difference between Galapagos birds and human mammary glands in the first place!


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## 48Highlander (12 Nov 2004)

Aaron White said:
			
		

> I may be out to lunch but aI think this may be the knee jerk reaction of some left leaning channels to make the public feel censored. I have a hard time believing the head of the FCC Colin Powells son would charge a station on veterens day for playing SPR. Flashing children during the super bowl is a far cry from playing amovie on TV in th eevening.



That's the first thing I thought too.  They're making a big deal out of it.  Why?  If they really felt the need to not show it or censor it, they'd just do it.  They wouldn't go around telling everyone with a camera or access to a newspaper column why they're doing it.  Seems to me their thinking goes something like this:

"Oh yeah?  Censor us will ya?  Well f**ck ya.  Watch this!"


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## Recce41 (12 Nov 2004)

Forest
 It was to be the complete uncut, uncensored vesion.


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## clasper (12 Nov 2004)

Actually Spielberg has a deal with ABC that says they can't show an edited version of the film.   The stations that were concerned about being fined asked the FCC for clarification of the rules, but the FCC declined to explain if the stations would be fined or not.   Since some stations did air it, I guess we'll find out if the FCC thinks that Saving Private Ryan is obscene or not...

http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/national/2004/11/11/Arts/SavingPrivateRyan041111.html


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## rw4th (12 Nov 2004)

The only "goryâ ? semi-real part of Saving Private Ryan is the beginning. A part from that its really just a ho-hum movie 

Now, a Band of Brothers marathon, that would have been interesting.



> As for AJ and Fox, AJ does not slam Canada as Fox does.


The problem is that most of Al-Jazeera is not broadcast in a language the average person in Canada understands. They can't even make sure that offensive content is censored because the CRTC does not have the resources to have an Arab speaking translators on hand 24/7. For all we know â Å“activationâ ? instructions are being passed on to terror cells in North America. 

As for the slamming: how do you know? Do you understand Arabic? Do you watch it 24/7?

I happen to like Fox News, and don't think that they say anything really bad about Canada, and when they do its nothing that we do not deserve IMO.


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## Alex252 (12 Nov 2004)

There was a Band of Brothers marathon a while ago on CH if any of you get it


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## Recce41 (12 Nov 2004)

rw4th
 FOX new is NOT FOX network stations. In Windsor Ont, we get FOX network. On Fox they have that dick Bil O'Rilley. He slams Canada bad has called us everthing from Cowards, French lovers. GD, Is't Quebec in Canada?. FOX is for Bush, CNN is/was pro Kerry. 
 As for AJ back home I know friends (soldiers)that are Arab and subscribe to AJ. It is Anti-American, and does has subtitleing sometimes.
 Remember Canada is not their enemy, to them we are the one that said NO, to attacking Iraq. The Country that it doesn't matter if you are Christen, Jew or Muslum. A country that has true morals. True Muslums are not terrorists, and if so what about the French in New England in the 1650s, Americans in the 1770s, the Partisians in WW2, Jews in 46-48 killing Brits, (Greeces) in Cyprus in the 50,60s killing the Brits, etc. A terrorist is only a terrorist if they are not on your side.
 :evil: :tank:


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## rw4th (12 Nov 2004)

> FOX new is NOT FOX network stations


Yes, I'm quite aware of that, hence my referring to it as Fox News (I travel frequently to the US on business and I do enjoy watching it).

The fact that Bill O'Reilley does not like Canada is not a good reason to not air Fox News in Canada. In fact, I'm a Canadian and I agree with on quite a few points they make. 

In the end though, they can bash Canada all they want, if you don't like it, you should have the option of just not paying for the channel (it's a cable channel so you can do that). The same with HBO, FX, and other American networks the CRTC deems are evil and should not be viewed by Canadians. 

Anyway, rant aside; my point is that the CRTC is just as bad, if not worse then the FCC when it comes to censorship; Canada has no moral high ground to stand on.



> True Muslums are not terrorists


I believe we've discussed this at length here  http://army.ca/forums/threads/18982.0.html
Bottom line: there is not such thing as true Islam just like their no true Christianity. It's all subjective and open to each group's interpretation of scriptures and their own agendas. If you disagree, just revive that thread and I'll be glad to share my opinions there.


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## Recce41 (12 Nov 2004)

4th
 Yes you are right, it pay TV. As for HBO, FX, etc they are not rated by the CRTC. It is because it will conflict with our movie channels. My brother in law had HBO on his for a while.  I watch Fox news also., just to get the other side. 
 Bottom line, both the FCC and CRTC are screwed up. as you said. But here in Canada we are not just blk and wht as in the states. We have left/right, up and down. Just watch Kink TV, Bravo, SEX TV, IFN. None of them would get on the US Sat. agree?


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## Acorn (12 Nov 2004)

Fox News is only "fair and balanced" when stood up next to the likes of Comical Ali. 

That being said, has anyone considered that the non-airing of SPR is due to a lack of desire to broadcast bloody war images while the Marines are fighting house-to-house in Falluja?

Acorn


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## Michael Dorosh (12 Nov 2004)

Acorn said:
			
		

> That being said, has anyone considered that the non-airing of SPR is due to a lack of desire to broadcast bloody war images while the Marines are fighting house-to-house in Falluja?
> 
> Acorn



Would it be wrong, if that was the case?


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## Acorn (12 Nov 2004)

That would depend on which side of the political divide one sits.

Acorn


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## a_majoor (12 Nov 2004)

One of the theams of SPR is that sacrifice is right and can serve a good cause. Many of the left-wing media people in the States might also have been thinking that SPR might "validate" the American sacrifice in Iraq. If you think that's cynical, havn't you noticed the MSM _NEVER_ airs or publishes pictures of 9/11; it might remind Americans there was a good reason to support President Bush after all...


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## muskrat89 (12 Nov 2004)

> Just watch Kink TV, Bravo, SEX TV, IFN. None of them would get on the US Sat. agree?



Ummm... I have those on our satellite channels....  ???


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## Art Johnson (13 Nov 2004)

When this program came on the other night I immediately switched to another channell I had seen SPR before and was not favourbly impressed by it. I watched the program "A War Of Their Own" on PBS" Apparently this program was so popular that night that it overwelmed the stations telephone system and crashed it. Most of the calls for support were from Cananda. The calls were from coast to coast as the program was carried on satelite.
I was not at the Normandy Invasion but I have been in battle and maybe it is the way the Americans do things, I doubt it. There has to be some control and if you have everybody hooting and hollering how can you have control.
The entire premise of the movie to me is not believable, it may make a good story and be entertaining but it leaves me cold.
One particular scene that turned me off was when the troops were taking 60mm mortar bombs and striking them on the ground tail first then throwing them as hand grenades, frankly I seriously doubt that could happen. I don't think that a hand strike would be enough to release the shutter and activate the bomb.


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Nov 2004)

Art Johnson said:
			
		

> When this program came on the other night I immediately switched to another channell I had seen SPR before and was not favourbly impressed by it. I watched the program "A War Of Their Own" on PBS" Apparently this program was so popular that night that it overwelmed the stations telephone system and crashed it. Most of the calls for support were from Cananda. The calls were from coast to coast as the program was carried on satelite.
> I was not at the Normandy Invasion but I have been in battle and maybe it is the way the Americans do things, I doubt it. There has to be some control and if you have everybody hooting and hollering how can you have control.
> The entire premise of the movie to me is not believable, it may make a good story and be entertaining but it leaves me cold.
> One particular scene that turned me off was when the troops were taking 60mm mortar bombs and striking them on the ground tail first then throwing them as hand grenades, frankly I seriously doubt that could happen. I don't think that a hand strike would be enough to release the shutter and activate the bomb.



There is absolutely no shred of actual military practices anywhere in SPR.  However, the 60mm mortar bomb scene was based on the Medal of Honor winning actions of an actual soldier - so I'm told.  Even if that is true, why base every thing in the movie on the exceptions rather than the rule?

Think about it - Carlos Hathcock, the Marine sniper, actually got a "through the telescope" shot on another sniper for real.  How often did that happen?  In the movie SPR, Jackson CHANGES HIS SIGHT on the fly, in the rain, doesn't zero the weapon, and gets a bullseye through another sniper's telescopic sight.   

Poppycock.

Why is an MG42 on a tripod (a company level asset) sitting on its own in a sandbag bunker with no one else around for miles?  (If there were anyone else around, our heroes would not have had time to stop and bury the US paratroopers!!)

More poppycock.

The Thompson firing through the driver's view slit on the Tiger (the real ones had bulletproof glass there) is another example; or the fact that the Tigers' bow machineguns apparently don't work.

Of course, the entire premise of 8 men going behind enemy lines to take a soldier back home is beyond silly to begin with, as is the notion that the first wave got off of Omaha in 20 minutes.

Having said all that, SPR revitalized interest in the Second World War for a new generation of movie goers, and many more people today - in Canada too - are seeking out more information on what happend in WW II (and Korea, Art).


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## foerestedwarrior (13 Nov 2004)

Im surprised that i seem to be the only one to pick up that fact that not one US Ranger landed on Omaha beach  They only landed at Pont du Hoc. 

Though i do agree that even though there is alot of innacuracys, they are inspiring alot of interest in our past, and creating alot of awareness. In the Toronto Sun yesterday one of the vets made a comment that there used to only be a handfull of people show up on Rememberance Day, now there are usualy hundreds, even in small towns.


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## Recce41 (13 Nov 2004)

Muskrat
 I know they are not on any North Eastern Channels. Or at least the ones I watch on US Sat..


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Nov 2004)

foerestedwarrior said:
			
		

> Im surprised that i seem to be the only one to pick up that fact that not one US Ranger landed on Omaha beach  They only landed at Pont du Hoc.



What are you talking about?  Elements of two Ranger Battalions did indeed land on Omaha - where do you think their motto RANGERS LEAD THE WAY comes from?  General Norman Cota is reported to have looked at soldiers floundering on the beach "You're Rangers, aren't you?  Then get up and lead the way!"  This may be a fictionalized version of what really happened - but IIRC the 2nd and 5th Ranger Battalions were both represented on the landing beaches, not Pointe du Hoc.


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## Alex252 (13 Nov 2004)

*There is absolutely no shred of actual military practices anywhere in SPR* 
Mike, I may be interpreting this incorrectly but the story is partly true. Franz Nialand, I believe is the name, lost all his brothers and was picked up in Normandy and brought back (From Band of Brothers book)


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Nov 2004)

Alex252 said:
			
		

> *There is absolutely no shred of actual military practices anywhere in SPR*
> Mike, I may be interpreting this incorrectly but the story is partly true. Franz Nialand, I believe is the name, lost all his brothers and was picked up in Normandy and brought back (From Band of Brothers book)



The padre drove out in a jeep and picked him up. ;D  There were no Germans in sight.  The guy's name was Fritz Niland.

Bit of a difference between a padre in a jeep and an 8 man Hollywood wrecking crew....

I meant more like everything the guys in the story do.  A captain leading a squad?  Rangers talking while on patrol?  These are conventions necessary for the story, but there were other ways to do that too.  Have them talking when taking a break, not patrolling.  Have Wade get killed in a minefield rather than some idiotic frontal assault on a lone machinegun nest.  Was it really necessary for Steamboat Willie to come back at the end of the movie to kill Miller?

Were Hawkins mines really command detonated like Claymores?

Could a sniper really change his scope on the fly and hit the broadside of a church tower with it?

Could a P-51 without rocket pods or bomb racks really destroy a Tiger, and weren't most tankkillers P-47s or Typhoons?

Would an SS unit (that was never in Normandy in the first half of June, incidentally) really send tanks unsupported through the streets of a town?  Possibly - ask the commander of the recce battalion (Graebner) who charged down Arnhem Bridge and got his ass handed to him.  Again, is it necessary to show the exception rather than the rule in just about every case?

It was a propaganda tale with high production values.  I like the movie, personally, and have seen it often.  I recommend it to others and think it does a great job of capturing the ingenuity, fear, bravery and other motions displayed by soldiers in WW II.  I just don't think it is particularly good at showing anything like actual military procedures.

Even Kelly's Heroes was more accurate, and it was billed as a comedy.  The minefield scene could (and actually has) be used as a textbook example of how to get out of such a situation when lacking mine detection equipment.  SPR has nothing at all like that anywhere to be found.

Band of Brothers had a recreation of the near-textbook assault on the battery at Brecourt Manor, for another example of a movie getting military practices correct.


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## muskrat89 (13 Nov 2004)

> Muskrat
> I know they are not on any North Eastern Channels. Or at least the ones I watch on US Sat..



Recce - Granted, just because they're available doesn't mean Domestic-Niner lets me subscribe

The Outdoor Channel is as wild as it gets, for me   ;D


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## Recce41 (14 Nov 2004)

Rat
 HAHA, Ye you better watchout for girls in NorthFace gear. Goxtex makes any one look good. 
 Mike 
 Your right. Normandy was the first time 2nd,5th  Ranger, saw combat. In NA it was 1st and 3rd. The 1st,3rd,4th was in Sicily then Italy . But some of the first were in Dieppe with the British Commandos.
The 29th was made up from the 29th Inf, and landed in southern France. The 475th Bn was Merrell's band of marry men in the pacfic.. The now 75th Bn are from them.
 There were some SS btys in Normandy, but most soldiers were Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe (paras).
 :evil: :tank:


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## Alex252 (14 Nov 2004)

*Im surprised that i seem to be the only one to pick up that fact that not one US Ranger landed on Omaha beach  They only landed at Pont du Hoc.* 
Although a large contingent landed at the cliffs at Pont du Hoc, quite a few rangers landed at Omaha. 
*General Norman Cota is reported to have looked at soldiers floundering on the beach "You're Rangers, aren't you?  Then get up and lead the way!"* 
In D-Day by Ambrose it says somewhere that it wasnt Cota but a different General (cant remeber the name), and Mike I satnd corrected. Where did you get the info about the padre though?


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## pappy (14 Nov 2004)

since when has hollywood stayed true to actual history?  SPR was a good move as far as special effects, had it was just a move.  I highly doubt the commanders at the time would have borthered to try to save one individual as the move would have you believe.  

Can we all say "fiction" I knew you could.....

And why does it supprise people that liberal US media would stop this movie from being shown?  They don't eacatly support our military....  They're pissed over the elections, they will be going out of thier way to discredit the US military and Bush.

The only time the US media / Hollywood come even close to supporting our troops is when there is money in it for them.  On as in WW2 they used making propaganda movies as a way out of serving on the front lines.


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## Recce41 (14 Nov 2004)

Fellas
Lt. Colonel James Earl Rudder, lead the 2nd. Three companies, D, E, and F assaulted the perpendicular cliffs of Point Du Hoc. The Fifth Ranger Battalion activated September 1, 1943 at Camp Forrest, commanded by Lt. Colonel Max Schneider, former exec officer of the 4th Ranger Battalion, was part of the provisional Ranger Assault Force commanded by Colonel Rudder. It landed on Omaha Beach with three companies of the 2nd Bn., A, B and C, where elements of the 116th Regiment of the 29th Inf. Division were pinned down by murderous cross fire and mortars from the heights above. It was there that the situation was so critical that General Omar Bradley was seriously considering redirecting reinforcements to other areas of the beachhead. And it was then and there that General Norman D. Cota, Assistant Division Commander of the 29th Division, gave the now famous order that has become the Motto of the 75th Ranger Regiment: "Ranger lead the way".


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## Veterans son (14 Nov 2004)

Recce41

Thanks for an excellent and informative message! 
I learn alot of great information from the  knowledgeable
people at Army.ca, such as yourself.


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## enfield (14 Nov 2004)

pappy said:
			
		

> And why does it supprise people that liberal US media would stop this movie from being shown?   They don't eacatly support our military....   They're pissed over the elections, they will be going out of thier way to discredit the US military and Bush.



Actually it was the Federal Communications Commission that has made a number of rulings that made it clear that a movie like SPR - which has swearing, violence, and gore - is inappropriate for prime time TV. Some ABC affiliates chose to carry it, some chose not too. The ones that chose not too did so because they earnestly believed they would lose their license based on th extreme punishments leveled on other stations that ahve crossed the FCC's line. So, in this case, its the liberal media which wants to show SPR, but the conservative government doesn't want to offend anyone. This is a change, because SPR has been shown before on TV, and although there were complainst to the FCC, it was ruled to be okay for prime time TV.


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## Infanteer (14 Nov 2004)

Any mistakes Speilburg and Hanks made in SPR for the sake of a story they fixed in Band of Brothers.

Where the movie fails in the historic department (Bloody Omaha was only 20 minutes?!?) it makes up for in raw emotion.   SPR does own a place in my DVD collection.   Guys, it's story telling - rent "The World at War" if you want the straight beans.


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## Acorn (15 Nov 2004)

_SPR_'s portrayal of Omaha was only 20 minutes, but how does that compare to _The Longest Day_? Film often compresses events. I haven't seen anything that indicates the first 20 min of _SPR_ was intended to be real time (though I suppose it could be interpreted to be so.) 

All film does this, even the excellent _Band of Brothers_. Let's not make too much of that, there's enough in _SPR_ to dislike. The first 20 min are the most relevant and realistic part of the film.

Acorn


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## foerestedwarrior (15 Nov 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> What are you talking about?   Elements of two Ranger Battalions did indeed land on Omaha - where do you think their motto RANGERS LEAD THE WAY comes from?   General Norman Cota is reported to have looked at soldiers floundering on the beach "You're Rangers, aren't you?   Then get up and lead the way!"   This may be a fictionalized version of what really happened - but IIRC the 2nd and 5th Ranger Battalions were both represented on the landing beaches, not Pointe du Hoc.



My bad, i read something wrong, i was going of memory that is 6 years old from when i lived in Normandy, though i have only found reference to rangers on omaha being this;


> 1st and 29th (U.S.) Divisions, supported by the 5th Ranger Battalion and 5th Engineer Special Brigade.



This is what i ment about point du hoc.
http://www.abmc.gov/ph.htm


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