# PT Testing Information For All New CF Members Headed to BMQ or IAP/BOTP



## 17thRecceSgt

There is alot of speculation and rumours as to the "new" PT testing standards and/or processes.  Here is the process that applies to all personnel headed to BMQ or IAP/BOTP.

Week 0 PT test
FAIL PT TEST:
- If a candidate fails the V02 Max (shuttle run) he/she will be transferred to RFT PL for a maximum of 90 days the Monday morning of week 1.
- If a candidate fails one or more strength components other than the V02 max (shuttle run) he/she will have a retest in week 10.

Week 10 1st Retest
FAIL PT RETEST:
-The candidate will carry on with training and must pass the remaining POs. Candidates who don’t succeed all three test components will be retested in week 13.
- If a candidate fails the shuttle run or two strength components in the retest of week 10, they will be transfer to RFT PL for 90 days maximum.
- All candidates will do a second CF EXPRES test in Week 10, to determine best athlete, and progression of physical fitness of trainee's.

Week 13 2nd Retest
- If a candidate fails, he/she will be transferred to RFT PL for a max of 4 weeks.
- The candidate will not graduate with their course.
NOTE:
- Candidates from the detachments who fail will be transferred to CFLRS St-Jean RFT PL. ( this includes PT tests of week 1,10 and 13) 

RFT PL
- Upon successful completion of the PT test, the candidate will get his/her qualification and carry on to their next phase of training.
- If the 2nd retest is failed after the 90 day period, the candidate will be released from the CF.

So, in a nutshell there is the process currently in place.  As for the activities RFT Pl does on a daily basis?  Fail the PT test as per the SOP above and you WILL find out.

Of interest is the Note in Week 13 2nd Retest.  All PT failures from...Borden...Gagetown...whereever, are sent here to RFT Pl.  Because of space limitations, this means a few things.
- some candidates that get back "on platoon" from either PAT or RFT are being sent to the "feeder" Det's who are sending people to RFT Pl here. 
- candidates who begin their BMQ in "Location X" and fail their PT, and are sent to RFT Pl, could find themselves in St-Jean for BMQ.

There is no quaruntee, nor should their be, that if you fail the PT test and get sent to RFT, that you will end up back where you started to complete BMQ once you are fit.  I have bumped into troops arriving to RFT Pl with kit in tow from Gagetown, who are passing people just off PAT Pl on their way to Borden to continue on with BMQ again as there are no spots for them here in St-Jean platoons.

As for IAP, to my knowledge, IAP/BOTP is only being run out of St-Jean, so all OCdts will remain in St-Jean until the next course starts.  IIRC, once you complete the PT test, you will move from RFT to PAT until you can be put on course.

MRM


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## Hawkeye

so my information was right then in my previous post last week?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/58835.0.html


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## Fry

MRM has anything changed since that post was made? Or is that post still accurate for the summer?


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## mudrecceman

To be honest, I am no longer an Instructor at CFLRS.  But it would likely be something close, if it changed at all.

Rather than "guessing", we should wait to see if any staff from CFLRS on the site can verify if this is current or has been superseded.

MRM


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## mudrecceman

I just reviewed the SOP, current now as of 2007-07-09.  Note the changes (bolded).

*This is the SOP for the BMQ Crse only.*

Week 0 PT test

FAIL PT TEST:
- If a candidate fails the V02 Max (shuttle run) he/she will be transferred to RFT PL for a maximum of 90 days the Monday morning of week 1. *Friday morning of Week 0.*

- If a candidate fails one or more strength components other than the V02 max (shuttle run) he/she will have a retest in week 10.

Week 10 1st Retest
FAIL PT RETEST:
-The candidate will carry on with training and must pass the remaining POs. Candidates who don’t succeed all three test components will be retested in week 13.
- If a candidate fails the shuttle run or two strength components in the retest of week 10, they will be transfer to RFT PL for 90 days maximum.
- All candidates will do a second CF EXPRES test in Week 10, to determine best athlete, and progression of physical fitness of trainee's.

Week 13 2nd Retest
- If a candidate fails, he/she will be transferred to RFT PL for a max of 4 weeks *90 days*.
- The candidate will not graduate with their course.
NOTE:
- Candidates from the detachments who fail will be transferred to CFLRS St-Jean RFT PL. ( this includes PT tests of week 1,10 and 13) 

RFT PL
- Upon successful completion of the PT test, the candidate will get his/her qualification and carry on to their next phase of training.
- If the 2nd retest is failed after the 90 day period, the candidate will be released from the CF.  *If a fail occurs after the 90 day period, the candidate will be released from the CF.*

So the test components itself have NOT I repeat NOT changed.  The actions IF you fail have changed slightly.

Again the SOP is current as of the 9th of July, 2007. (to the best of my knowledge and I did not find anything more current.  I also did not contact anyone I know at CFLRS to verify.)  

But I would consider this info solid.

MRM


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## mudrecceman

*IAP/BOTP EXPRESS TEST INFO*  (info current as of 2007-06-21)

*IAP Week 0 PT Test*

FAIL PT TEST:
The candidate will receive a PO failure entry on his/her performance log and will carry on with training. *For those who fail shuttle run*:
- If a candidate fails the V02 Max (shuttle run) he/she will be transferred to RFT PL for a maximum of 90 days, commencing the Friday of week 0.
- For a candidate whose program does not permit staying for the max 90 day period, he/she will stay for the max time possible.
- When he/she arrives for a subsequent IAP serial, he/she will have to pass the VO2 Max upon arrival at CFLRS. If this testing results in failure, the candidate will be released from the CF.

*IAP Week 6 PT Retest*

Fail PT Retest
The candidate will receive a “Note to file” entry on his/her performance log and will carry on with training and must pass the remaining POs.
- All candidates will do a second CF EXPRES test; this will determine the best athlete and the progression of physical fitness of candidates. This will be considered the retest for candidates who previously failed the EXPRES test.
- Failure of the shuttle run OR failure of two strength components will result in transfer to RFT PL after week 6 retest.

*BOTP Week 0 PT Test*

- The candidate that is arriving only to do BOTP will do his/her EXPRES test prior to BOTP during week 0. If he/she fails a strength component of the test, he/she will receive an “EO 115.01 failure” on his/her performance log and will carry on with training to be retested in week 6.
- In case of a VO2 Max (shuttle run) failure the candidate will be recommended for release from the CF.
- All candidates that failed their CF EXPRES test on IAP must be tested again prior to BOTP.

*BOTP Week 6 Retest*

If he/she fails the retest of a strenght component, the member will not graduate with the platoon; he/she will be recommended for release of the CF.

*NOTE FOR IAP AND/OR BOTP:*
If there is a failure of the CF EXPRES retest, 90 days max of supplementary training at RFT PL will be allocated only if the training calendar permits.


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## mudrecceman

I hope this answers all the question on both the BMQ/IAP serials upcoming WRT the Physical Fitness testing.  Don't be scared to point people to this info rather than having them post a "does anyone know" question.   ;D

One last point.  *Do NOT downplay the "will receive a PO failure entry" or a "note the file" for failing a portion of the test*.  This would be the wrong approach.  There is something called the Warning System, which you don't want yourself on.  I will not post the contents of said system on here, sorry.  However, its not a "freebie" if you slip by the RFT Pl by not doing the pushups.  Take a look at the info on the BOTP Week 6 Retest if you fail, or after 90 days in RFT either as a Pte(r) or OCdt.

Shoot the foot, drive the body, start training YESTERDAY.

Good luck!

MRM


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## RCSCC

if you are put on RFT do you have to wait th 90 days to be puit back on course or if you meet the requirments in 2 week will you be put back on a course? thank you


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## mudrecceman

If memory serves me, you get a retest after 30 days, 60 days (if needed) and 90 days is the last kick at the cat.

If you don't pass the 20MSR, you probably are going to need more than 10 training days to get to where you CAN pass it...IMO.

But thats what I remember from the briefing 6 months ago.

Can you ask for one before 30 days?  I am sure you can ask...whether it will be approved or not I can't answer.


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## Fry

That information is very valuable indeed. Many thanks Mud Recce Man.

I've been training since surgery. It's been a hellish long boring path but I'm getting to where I want to be and am more than confident I'll blow the fitness test away.


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## RTaylor

Thanks for the info Mud, I've been looking around for it and you hit the nail on the head for me.

Does anyone know if this is still current as of the new year ? 

Thanks in advance 

After reading some of the stories of RFT and just how blatantly out of shape you have to be to end up on it...well...I don't see myself going on that now!


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## AgentSmith

Does this only apply to the reg force?


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## George Wallace

YES.


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## RTaylor

I just want to say Thanks for all the great information found here on this site, it should be a part of the recruiting process.


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## Buschgirl427

Got my reserve application, and the only thing im worried about with the whole BMQ experience is the fitness. I've been in Army Cadets for 6 years and have had an extremely sucessful career thus far. Aside from working out like crazy for pushups, running, and the hand grip, I really dont think there's much else to do. How intense is BMQ training physically? Can someone give me some examples of intense activities?


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## RTaylor

It was explained to me like this via talks on the boards, PM's and so forth :

The beep test is _the_ important part. People have been telling me if you can job straight at a solid pace for at least 6 minutes you can pass this at the minimum requirement. Ignore the 2.4km that people say because everyone has a different pace they call jogging. 

Pushups - As long as you do step test you can get down to around 12-15 of these and move on.

Sit-ups - see above.

Grip-test - easy to do, a regular person who watches TV all day should be able to do this.


I will tell you this, the reserves are alot less forgiving when it comes to PT. Be in the best shape you can before you apply. They don't have the time to whip people into shape as the reg forces do.

And a hint : Don't tell anyone besides your career counsellor / interviewer that the cadets have been a career for you, I've seen multiple people get a real shit send of the stick because of it. Hide your cadet background to the others and pretend it's all new to you. Most of it will be anyway besides the drill. Cadets are a _great_ background to have, it's just that alot of people don't like it that most cadets often see themselves as better than everyone else (often to the point of trying to boss everyone, I've seen it), and whatever you do just try to be another recruit. It's not that their bad people, its just that they have bad ideas.

 I've seen with my own 2 eyes 3-4 soap-in-a-sock midnight beatings on cadets who tried to be "the cut above" and make their co-trainees look bad. It's not only bad for you but it's bad for the whole training class.


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## RTaylor

I know Sapper, but Im talking the minimum acceptable for the 1st PT testing that makes the decision on whether you go straight to Basic or the RFT, not the final 10th - 13th week testing where if you fail it then it says something about just how lazy or unwilling you are.


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## Nfld Sapper

Damn myself doing very little PT can pass the damn Express test and now all applicants *must* pass it before being able to go on the BMQ (P Res) course.


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## Eye In The Sky

This is the info from the CFLRS Intranet site today, current as of 2008-05-16.  It doesn't get much more current than this.  

For those who have DIN/IntraNet access, the following link is to the BMQ TP on the CFLRS site.  What you are looking for is Chapter 3, PO 104, Annex D, Appendix 1 "CF EXPRES Evaluation Process", the .pdf file is to the right of that row item.  The IAP/BOTP .pdf is located in the same location but under the IAP & BOTP TP, you can find that in the left column.  IntraNet link is:

http://cflrs.saint-jean.mil.ca/fichiers/index.cfm?no_lang=31&no_menu=10&no_smenu=64&no_ssmenu=120

For those who don't have access, please see the 2 attached files applicable to BMQ or IAP/BOTP.  I didn't have time to disseminate and type it out, so its 'in clear'.

Mods, I am not sure if you want to merge this, or link this, to other relevant threads as there seemed to be alot of spec fire on this subject.


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## Nauticus

I'm sorry, I might just be stupid.

There is still a physical test on the day of your Aptitude test, right? This is just the test you have to pass to get through BMQ. Am I correct?


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## kingyyz

Nauticus said:
			
		

> There is still a physical test on the day of your Aptitude test, right?



Reserves yes. Regular force no.


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## Nauticus

You're kidding! You don't have to prove you can do 19 pushups, 19 situps, the pullups, and the run _prior_ to BMQ??

Just yesterday I actually postponed by appointment to physically prepare even more.


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## George Wallace

Nauticus said:
			
		

> You're kidding! You don't have to prove you can do 19 pushups, 19 situps, the pullups, and the run _prior_ to BMQ??
> 
> Just yesterday I actually postponed by appointment to physically prepare even more.


As was stated; Reservists do, as they do not have the resources to conduct that testing.

Do the people going Regular Force no longer have to worry about it?  Not very likely.  They are tested as soon as they arrive in St Jean/Borden and if they fail the test they are put on Remedial PT and NOT Crse Loaded on BMQ until they do pass.

READ ABOUT ALL THIS in the MANY TOPICS on these SUBJECTS


TOPIC is Redundant and NOW......................................LOCKED!


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## 4Feathers

Good info on that old thread but it is all changing once again effective 1 Apr 09. There will still be a WFT Platoon but there will also be a min threshold to meet to even get there. It's pretty low, I think 2 pushups for females and 4 for males, but if you can't meet the new min threshold then you RTM on day one. I would also add that another new policy change for 1  Apr is the "no VR before week 5" rule.


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## the 48th regulator

4Feathers said:
			
		

> Good info on that old thread but it is all changing once again effective 1 Apr 09. There will still be a WFT Platoon but there will also be a min threshold to meet to even get there. It's pretty low, I think 2 pushups for females and 4 for males, but if you can't meet the new min threshold then you RTM on day one. I would also add that another new policy change for 1  Apr is the "no VR before week 5" rule.



Any links onthe new changes?  We can add them in to the locked thread.

dileas

tess


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## 4Feathers

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Any links onthe new changes?  We can add them in to the locked thread.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



I was just briefed on the changes last week, as soon as I find a link I will action asap. All applicants are now being counselled on the changes and they have been incorporated on the new enrolment documents. More to follow.....
Cheers


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## Fishbone Jones

So in order to stop all the bafflegab, what ifs and rumour that surround this sort of thing, we'll put a temp lock on it. When something OFFICIAL is *published* and *it can be linked to or pasted*, the person with the info can contact a mod to open the thread.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


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