# Complaint (& Response) About CF Recruiting Posters...



## The Bread Guy (8 Jul 2008)

....not to mention a Response to the Response at the bottom.

*Offensive Canadian Military Posters in Public Places: correspondence with the Minister*
Joan Russow, Global Compliance Research Project, PEJnews, 8 Jul 08
Posting link

Recently, citizens have become concerned about large National Defence military recruitment posters lining public transit shelters in Victoria, British Columbia. Apparently, National Defence is posting these propaganda messages in public spaces throughout Canada. These posters are in violation of the Canadian Standards Act.. Enclosed is correspondence with the Hon Peter Mackay, Canadian Minister of Defence. 



> COMPLAINT SENT TO THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE
> 
> From: Joan Russow [mailto:jrussow@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 10 April, 2008 13:08
> ...





> RESPONSE FROM THE HON PETER MACKAY, MINISTER OF DEFENCE
> 
> "dnd_mdn@forces.gc.ca" JULY 7, 2008
> 
> ...





> RESPONSE TO THE RESPONSE FROM MINISTER OF DEFENCE
> 
> July 8, 2008
> 
> ...


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## Haletown (8 Jul 2008)

I'd bet this wikipedia entry is her . . .  Maybe they give out PhD's in Stuck on Stupidism these days 

Joan Elizabeth Russow (Ottawa: November 1, 1938) is a Canadian peace activist and former national leader of the Green Party of Canada from 1997 to 2001.[1][2]

Russow's late partner was David Scott White (Winnipeg: January 20, 1947 – Victoria, B.C.: July 16, 2006) who was the former chair of the Green Party of British Columbia.[3] "White managed Russow's election campaign as leader of the federal Green party, and remained active in the party for the five years of Russow's leadership."[4]

    The couple left the party in 2001, disillusioned by, among other factors, the German Green party's support of the NATO attack on Serbia. Russow and White both joined the NDP in 2003 and White continued his work as an activist until his death, most recently researching and writing against Canada's military role in Afghanistan.[4]

Russow received her BA and a Master’s degree in Education from the University of British Columbia.[5] Russow received her Ph.D.[2] from the University of Victoria in Interdisciplinary studies.

Russow is a co-founder of the Ecological Rights Association and the Global Compliance Research Project.[2]

Russow first gained attention in the "Lord's Prayer Case" which resulted in the banning of school prayer in public schools in British Columbia in 1989.[6]

Russow joined the Green Party in 1993 and became leader in 1997.[2] Russow ran for a seat in the Canadian House of Commons in three federal elections; in Victoria in 1997 and 2000, and a federal by-election in Okanagan-Coquihala in September, 2000.[2] She lost all three bids.

She left the Green Party in 2003 to join the New Democratic Party[7] and in 2005 she criticized the Green Party under Jim Harris for moving away from some of its original left-wing principles.[8]

Under the leadership of Russow, policies were developed which promoted social justice, human rights, and peace, as well as the more traditional concerns with environment.

In collaboration with the professors in the Law faculty of the University of Toronto, Russow was the litigant in the Charter challenge of the first-past-the-post electoral system in Canada.[9]

Russow developed a "common Security Index" which was submitted to the Senate Committee on the Anti-Terrorism Act on October 17, 2005.[10]

Russow has been speaking out about the increased militarism in Canada, and also attends civic events and parades where she publicly denounces WWII veterans as warmongers.[11] Her activism currently focuses on: (i) Increased military budget; (ii) increased belligerence in the military invasion and occupation of Afghanistan (iii) increased military exercises involving US nuclear powered vessels and nuclear arms capable vessels and aircraft and using live ammunition; (iv) increased military recruitment ads on television and buses, in "Navy days" with booths, and in schools; (v) increased mining and production of uranium, including the contribution to US ad NATO weapon systems; (vii) increased military flights overhead and participation in community events and parades.[12]

In March 2007, Russow lobbied state delegations in the UN General Assembly to invoke Article 22 of the Charter of the United Nations to set up an international tribunal to try the Bush regime. On March 8, 2007, the petition, in the six official languages was submitted to the office of the President of the UN General Assembly.[13]


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## Michael OLeary (8 Jul 2008)

The "Global Compliance Research Project" has 1910 hits in Google, but none seem to actually explain who or what this organization is.  Perhaps it is just a label for a few vocal opposers of things they don't like.

From http://canesi.org/Engl/xmovebeyond.html - 



> Joan Russow (PhD) Global Compliance Research Project, *Former Federal Leader of the Green Party of Canada*


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## RCDtpr (8 Jul 2008)

I applaud the MND's office for responding and defending themselves.  However I feel the response was not accurate.  It should read:


Dear Hippie with too much time on her hands,

Shove it

Thank you for your interest in the Canadian Armed Forces


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## fandago5 (8 Jul 2008)

:CDN :How can one assume that an advertisement by the Canadian Government to make all Canadians aware of the careers and employment available for the young generation to participate in the defence of this great country is in any way offensive in its message.The  fact that one can criticize the operation of government is because soldiers of this country gave their time and in many cases their lives to support this idea


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## The Bread Guy (8 Jul 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> The "Global Compliance Research Project" has 1910 hits in Google, but none seem to actually explain who or what this organization is.



Just found this tidbit, which still doesn't, really, say much, does it?
http://www.peace.ca/whoswhoworlddg.htm (mid page)


> Global Compliance Research Project - CITIZENS' PUBLIC TRUST TREATY, A TREATY OF ETHICS, EQUITY AND ECOLOGY, A PROPOSED United Nations General Assembly Resolution, to be circulated to governments by their citizens. Joan Russow (Ph.D.): Co-ordinator, 1230 St. Patrick St. Victoria, B.C. V8S 4Y4 Tel/Fax (250) 598-0071. e-mail: jrussow@coastnet.com ; web copy of proposed resolution: http://www.gn.apc.org/negreens/cptt.htm



Ah, a little more, at an anti-nuclear web page
http://members.shaw.ca/shunlunn/nuclear.htm


> Joan Russow of Victoria is with the Global Compliance Research Project, which *monitors governments' compliance with international law.*


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## retiredgrunt45 (8 Jul 2008)

PhD in what? Flower power and pot smoking, must be a Berkley graduate.

Why doesn't she complain about the underwear ads, billboards and posters with nearly nude models pasted on the sides of city buses and other very public places, because I'm sure children see these also. And while we're at it, why don't we get rid of cartoons that depict violence, "Saturday morning cartoons" which most children still watch. :

Get a life! "Bimbo"


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## armyvern (8 Jul 2008)

retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> PhD in what? Flower power and pot smoking, must be a Berkley graduate.



Ow come on now ... I'm thinking of attending her UVic institution in the "Women's Studies" program. Perhaps I'll get to meet this fine lady!!  >


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## Donaill (8 Jul 2008)

It is people like her and the idiot that had the Canadian  flag upside down on Canada day (in Halifax)  that makes me frustrated. For all of thier education, they do not seem to know alot about history. It seems like every time Canada does not spend money on our military and ask for recruits, it is the time when a major war starts. This is a simplistic answer  but it is late and I don't feel like telling everyone here the things that I know you all know.


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## Run away gun (8 Jul 2008)

Damned if you damned if you don't.

If they were taken down, the DND would probably be accused of misleading new recruits by these same people.


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## Scoobie Newbie (8 Jul 2008)

I sent her a email.  Summed it up by telling her Radical Islam doesn't allow women to be teachers let alone doctors.


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## 1feral1 (8 Jul 2008)

Dear friends,

To sum up, the woman is a nutter!

OWDU


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## tabernac (8 Jul 2008)

> The problem is that the posters are in bus shelters where they can be seen by children, and for that reason they are in violation of the standards.




WTF, OVER.  ???

There are alcohol ads in the same shelters, go complain that these ads don't reflect being in a drunken stupor AND that they are visible to children.

Some people are useless.

This woman is one of them.


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## Sig_Des (8 Jul 2008)

Well, according to the wiki on her, as accurate as it may be:



> Russow has been speaking out about the increased militarism in Canada, and also* attends civic events and parades where she publicly denounces WWII veterans as warmongers*.[11] Her activism currently focuses on: (i) Increased military budget; (ii) increased belligerence in the military invasion and occupation of Afghanistan (iii) increased military exercises involving US nuclear powered vessels and nuclear arms capable vessels and aircraft and using live ammunition; (iv) increased military recruitment ads on television and buses, in "Navy days" with booths, and in schools; (v) increased mining and production of uranium, including the contribution to US ad NATO weapon systems; (vii) increased military flights overhead and participation in community events and parades.[12]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Russow

Unfortunately, the reference on the bolded section isn't online, so I can't confirm. So, I'm gonna agree with good Overwatch.

Nutter. Nutter with an anti-military bee in her bonnet


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## Scoobie Newbie (8 Jul 2008)

email her and ask


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## Scoobie Newbie (9 Jul 2008)

So she got a degree with no specialty?

http://www.canadian-universities.net/Universities/Programs/Interdisciplinary_Studies.html
"Interdisciplinary studies, like liberal arts or general studies degrees, are comprised of courses from various disciplines rather than one or two specific disciplines. On occasion, these disciplines may be drawn from different faculties (arts and health sciences, for example) as well as different departments within one faculty. The best interdisciplinary programs seek to create new connections between areas of study, rearranging knowledge, thought and methodology into new configurations."


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## Harris (9 Jul 2008)

Oh she has a speciality I think.  UFO sightings.


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## RHFC_piper (9 Jul 2008)

She seems like a wing nut with too much time on her hands and some kind of messed up grudge against those who give her the rights and freedoms to be a wing nut in the first place.  

Personally, I see two options here... and these is just my opinions;

1) Just ignore her and maybe she'll just dry up and blow away...  Since she seems to be an attention wh0re, this may be the best option.

or

2) Round up her and all those like her (including Taliban Jack), toss them in a sea can and drop it in the middle of Afghanistan... preferably Helmand or the rougher areas of Kandahar... then they'll have a keener understanding of who the "belligerent" ones are over there.  
Oh.. yeah... give them a radio too... with a direct line to the CF over there. And when they call for help, and they will, just tell them they won and the Canadian Army doesn't exist anymore, so they have to fend for themselves.



Normally I'd get angry about the sheer stupidity of this person, but I see no point.  I figure she's dumb enough to remover herself from the gene pool sooner rather than later...  which just means more food for me.


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## larry Strong (9 Jul 2008)

Another prime example  of why we should have post birth abortions


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## RHFC_piper (9 Jul 2008)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> Another prime example  of why we should have post birth abortions



Heh... a 120th Trimester abortion.  >


As much as it seems wrong, as I've said before; more food for me.   Consider it thinning the herd... Like a cull on stupid/ignorant people.


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## Zell_Dietrich (9 Jul 2008)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> Another prime example of why we should have post birth abortions



I find it hard to argue with the sentiment that the gene pool needs more chlorine.  :blotto:


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## Scoobie Newbie (9 Jul 2008)

Perhaps a load that should have been swallowed.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (9 Jul 2008)

Gentlemen......


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## Scoobie Newbie (9 Jul 2008)

Sorry....


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## Zell_Dietrich (9 Jul 2008)

I'm sorry too.  

But here is someone with a university education who think that the posters at a bus shelter violate http://www.adstandards.com/en/standards/canCodeOfAdStandards.asp 

Come on.   This is about as intelligent as when that crazy lady spray pained "Red Cross" on the side of a LSVW at Fort York armoury.  ( How do you begin to reason with people who fundamentally lack a common basis of understanding )  There comes a point where one just has to go "ah".


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## 1feral1 (9 Jul 2008)

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> Perhaps a load that should have been swallowed.



I am blushing, ha! You know me, I don't have such wicked thoughts, for I am reformed  >

Like I said, she's a nutter, too bad she could not use her energy for the greater good, instead of calling down WWII vets etc. She could have been doing that in Japanese or German languages if things went to shyte, and I don't think that would be for the better.

Best to right this mole (Aussie definition) off as a serial pest and true nutter.

OWDU


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## TrexLink (10 Jul 2008)

The Minister responded perfectly correctly. Had he told her to get stuffed in so many words, it would have become a national issue.  He instead told her to get stuffed politely and she cannot now complain about his reply.

There are always going to be people like this and, so long as universities keep giving out degrees in basket-weaving and comparative folk-dancing, there will always be people with PhDs like this.  What I find sad is that she has managed to waste the time of a bunch of, presumably, busy and intelligent people on this forum.  It's like a mosquito bite - scratch it and it gets worse, ignore it and it goes away.


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## ArmyRick (10 Jul 2008)

Is this clown for real? She is right out in left field with her all lets hold hands here in canada and pretend the world is a wonderful place.

Is she a teacher at a university? I would love to send her a peice of my mind.


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## hauger (10 Jul 2008)

TrexLink said:
			
		

> There are always going to be people like this and, so long as universities keep giving out degrees in basket-weaving and *comparative folk-dancing*........



Umm...what good is folk dancing if you can't compare it?


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## Jaydub (10 Jul 2008)

Typical looney left.  :

I'm so used to that living here in Victoria.  I didn't even have to look at her address.
Somehow, I just knew...

We see alot of that around here.
Trident Fury, Navy Days, etc... Island NIMBYism at it's finest!
Granted, this is more petty than usuall, but I try not to let it get to me.


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## Haletown (10 Jul 2008)

'World Peace  is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'


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## CountDC (10 Jul 2008)

Haletown said:
			
		

> the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'



 ;D ;D ;D ;D now that is good!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Donaill (10 Jul 2008)

Not all Left thinking individuals are nut bars. I happen to be left leaning for social policies and right leaning for our national economy and military. Being left or right does not automatically mean someone is a nut bar, neither is it true for pacifists.  This particular person does not seem to comprehend, in my opinion, that a large stick is sometimes required when the talking fails.


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## Jaydub (10 Jul 2008)

Donaill said:
			
		

> Not all Left thinking individuals are nut bars.



Agreed.  There are a couple left wingers that have been my best friends for 20+ years, and they're (reasonably) down to earth.

There are nutters on both sides of the political spectrum.  
This woman just happens to be on the left.


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## zipperhead_cop (10 Jul 2008)

"Posters of soldiers..."
"In our cities...."
"With pictures of guns...."
"We aren't making this up...."

 :


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## Donaill (10 Jul 2008)

What? Soldiers with guns? Who'd of thunk? Next ya know it will be sailors with ships and airforce types with airforce type stuff.


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## EDS334 (10 Jul 2008)

So I gave the Code of Advertising a glance, and after reading a few highlights would say that the posters would be in violation if they didn't have weapons in them.  

Wait out.  Does this woman (who doesn't know how to properly cite her own credentials) think we do not carry weapons?  Someone should "educate" her.   :threat:  jk


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## King Elessar (10 Jul 2008)

i would have loved to have seen her face if she was living in Winnipeg when Operation Charging Bison was taking place. :threat:


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## Jarnhamar (11 Jul 2008)

I'm going to photoshop some of those new sexy JTF2 posters, add in 7 and 11 year old boys instead and call it JTF-S (for spartans) and send her over a few copies to get her opinion.

http://www.jtf2.forces.gc.ca/ig-ri/index-eng.asp


THIS was awesome


> Russow has been speaking out about the increased militarism in Canada, and also attends civic events and parades *where she publicly denounces WWII veterans as warmongers*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Russow

I feel bad because shes super old and I'm all about respecting 'elders' but wow.


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## The Bread Guy (11 Jul 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> I'm going to photoshop some of those new sexy JTF2 posters, add in 7 and 11 year old boys instead and call it JTF-S (for spartans) and send her over a few copies to get her opinion.
> http://www.jtf2.forces.gc.ca/ig-ri/index-eng.asp



In that case, this one BEGS to have a kid in loud flowered shorts water skiing behind the boat.....






...and this one could have a kid at the bottom of the "well"...





C'mon, I dares ya  ;D


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## Jarnhamar (11 Jul 2008)

[Insert Random Name] said:
			
		

> Halo reference?
> 
> ... I gotta stop playing that game.



The spartan reference was to "actual" spartans training children starting at age 7 (?) for war.  Halo (tm) didn't come up with spartans  

Milnewstbay I think you're on the right track!


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## Rocketryan (11 Jul 2008)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> In that case, this one BEGS to have a kid in loud flowered shorts water skiing behind the boat.....
> 
> 
> C'mon, I dares ya  ;D



Photoshop isn't my greatest skill sadly


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## The Bread Guy (11 Jul 2008)

It's the thought that counts, Rocektry....  ;D


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## troopersgirl (12 Jul 2008)

Gentlemen, sorry for the intrusion, as I am new here (only 14hours) and could not resist adding just a touch of female perspective here.  
 I hope you don't mind if I post on this one.   

I was laughing so hard, I cried  :crybaby:
There were so many fabulous threads I wanted to add to, however I resisted doing that to you.
Someone mentioned cartoons and although I don't watch current ones, I have recently watched oldies from the 60's and they have actually been altered dramatically for "appropriateness", which of course is just plain wrong!
Not only that, but what about the building sized movie posters that are absolutely everywhere depicting whatever they want?  Money talks.
*My point is this*:  I have seen all the _JTF2_ posters and trust me, *they are tame * compared to other media out there. As a person who has done her fair share of photo-shopping   find a picture of her  and post it herewith.  That would be funnier!

  I care about what you all do for this country, in support of a man whom I think about, and fear losing with every breath I take. Thank you, and thank you for this site.


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## The Bread Guy (12 Jul 2008)

Couldn't resist - with apologies to Matt Groening and the fine folks at JTF-2 graphics....


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## brihard (12 Jul 2008)

Hah, I'm game.

Someone from Oakley is gonna track me down and sue me for this one.


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## blacktriangle (12 Jul 2008)

..and damn nice sunglasses they are.


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## brihard (12 Jul 2008)




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## Scoobie Newbie (12 Jul 2008)

ROTFLMAO


Priceless, although the text needs some Yoda spin on it


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## kratz (12 Jul 2008)

re: the Yoda poster.

"May the JTF2 Force be with you".   8)


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## The Bread Guy (12 Jul 2008)

Brihard, I bow to your superior PhotoShopping skills - we're not worthy, we're not worthy......


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## brihard (12 Jul 2008)

By popular demand...


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## MarkS33 (13 Jul 2008)

:rofl: Brihard, you have made my day... and I'm sure the days of many others on this fourm. I can't stop laughing :rofl:


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## Rocketryan (13 Jul 2008)

Wow
Your my new hero of the day


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## Jarnhamar (13 Jul 2008)

Brihard thats awesome, great job.


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## Catherine Faye (13 Jul 2008)

I found one.






The link is from http://www.iisd.ca/4wcw/Beijing+5/6june.html


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## Ex-Dragoon (13 Jul 2008)

No need to get insulting folks...the lady is entitled to her opinion. After all thats why myself and others put on the uniform everyday and those that wore the uniform before us. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't bother because if its too insulting it will be removed. You have been warned!

Milnet.ca Staff


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## George Wallace (13 Jul 2008)

The question arises:

"If a person with a Degree loses their faculties, should the Faculty still recognize that person`s Degree"


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## Michael OLeary (14 Jul 2008)

Ms Russow has now mentioned Army.ca in one of her own online posts.

A Disturbing Glimpse into the Canadian Military Mind



> A Disturbing Glimpse into the Canadian Military Mind- PEJnews. Joan Russow – Global Compliance Research Project
> 
> I previously posted the letter that I sent to the Hon Peter Mackay, Minister of Defence. This letter expressed my concern about belligerent recruitment posters in Bus shelters. I have subsequently become aware of disturbing responses on Army.ca.
> 
> ...




*Her selected comments certainly make us look like an open-minded bunch seeking open discourse.*

For those of you who so generously provided her those sound bites, it's time to step back and look at it with fresh eyes.  If your position is that because you've "BTDT" then you get to have more of an opinion than other citizens, then I believe you are sadly mistaken. If anyone thinks their service in the CF grants them any special rights to speak out in such a manner, you are wrong.  Thrown under a microscope like this, it would not be untoward to slap each poster with a warning under the Conduct Guidelines.

Folks, it's time to grow up.  It's been said time and again that the collective postings here reflect on the CF as a subset of Canadian society.  Well, that is exactly what you have done here, and it is not complimentary.

These situations make me wonder what good we are doing when it can so easily be undermined by a pile-on by this particular Neanderthal mindset.

Now is time for those who have "BTDT" to start acting like the adults they claim to be.


This topic is now locked.  It will not be reopened for further comment.  It may be purged following staff consideration.

Milnet.ca Staff


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