# British army pulling out of Suffield



## MilEME09 (23 Nov 2021)

British army to pull training bases out of CFB Suffield and Wainwright
					

The British Army is leaving Canada after 50 years, with its biggest global training base to be moved to the Middle East.




					calgaryherald.com
				




Big news quietly came out of the UK today as the UK defense secretary announced the intention to pull the British out of CFB Suffield.

This is an announcement that has major implications for the CAF in Alberta.


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## Infanteer (23 Nov 2021)

Wow.  Huge.  I knew this was swirling around, but wasn't expecting a full pull out.

Lot of potential but also a lot of pitfalls now that they're leaving.


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## dimsum (23 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> British army to pull training bases out of CFB Suffield and Wainwright
> 
> 
> The British Army is leaving Canada after 50 years, with its biggest global training base to be moved to the Middle East.
> ...


I await the next CAF news release:

"CFB Edmonton now moving to CFB Suffield"


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## MilEME09 (23 Nov 2021)

dimsum said:


> I await the next CAF news release:
> 
> "CFB Edmonton now moving to CFB Suffield"


With the reports that the Strats are getting all leopards concentrated with them, and 1 CMBG becoming a heavy brigade, I would not be surprised if the strats were moved to Suffield. The infrastructure is already there, so it wouldn't cost much to carry out.


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## dimsum (23 Nov 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> With the reports that the Strats are getting all leopards concentrated with them, and 1 CMBG becoming a heavy brigade, I would not be surprised if the strats were moved to Suffield. The infrastructure is already there, so it wouldn't cost much to carry out.


So, kinda like 2 VP moving from Winnipeg to Shilo?

I'm sure it'll do wonders for retention.


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## Itsbeenaslice (23 Nov 2021)

dimsum said:


> I await the next CAF news release:
> 
> "CFB Edmonton now moving to CFB Suffield"


Wouldn't that make sense?  The AD should have gone there years ago.


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## Ostrozac (23 Nov 2021)

Given the environmental state of Suffield, we probably can’t ever divest it. This could be a historic opportunity to reorient the army towards heavy metal manoeuvre warfare. Or it could be an expensive millstone that finally takes us all down.

How’s the cost of housing in Medicine Hat? Have we now inherited a base people both want to and can afford to live in? Or is it deeply flawed?


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## dapaterson (23 Nov 2021)

Medicine Hat real estate seems reasonable: 298 Medicine Hat Real Estate MLS® Listings & Houses for Sale | REALTOR.ca


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## MilEME09 (23 Nov 2021)

the base also has an active rail head, airstrip, etc... the CAF would be pretty foolish not to move assets into the base, as all the infrastructure would give room to grow, and could also allow equipment for the reserves in southern alberta to be pre-positioned for training.


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## daftandbarmy (23 Nov 2021)

dapaterson said:


> Medicine Hat real estate seems reasonable: 298 Medicine Hat Real Estate MLS® Listings & Houses for Sale | REALTOR.ca



Siberia might be a little more appealing.

Full transcontinental passenger rail service and access to some real culture 






						Поиск: real estate Siberia
					

Search



					siberiantimes.com


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## Blackadder1916 (23 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Siberia might be a little more appealing.



How the Army Families Federation (British) characterizes a posting to Suffield.





__





						Your Canada posting - Army Families Federation
					

Information for Army families on a posting to Canada.




					aff.org.uk
				





> However, due to its unique setting, *it can also feel an isolated and remote location for those who are not prepared*. There are a few things to take into account before accepting a BATUS posting.


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## Infanteer (24 Nov 2021)

What's also somewhat humorous in that article is the mention of the Brits leaving Wainwright and that base slated to close as well.  Not sure where the reporters dredged that up from, but the Brits left Wainwright over a decade ago, and it ain't closing any time soon....


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## SeaKingTacco (24 Nov 2021)

Infanteer said:


> What's also somewhat humorous in that article is the mention of the Brits leaving Wainwright and that base slated to close as well.  Not sure where the reporters dredged that up from, but the Brits left Wainwright over a decade ago, and it ain't closing any time soon....


You want actual “facts” in a Canadian newspaper article?

what’s next- “research” and “context”?


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## OldSolduer (24 Nov 2021)

Ostrozac said:


> Given the environmental state of Suffield, we probably can’t ever divest it. This could be a historic opportunity to reorient the army towards heavy metal manoeuvre warfare. Or it could be an expensive millstone that finally takes us all down.
> 
> How’s the cost of housing in Medicine Hat? Have we now inherited a base people both want to and can afford to live in? Or is it deeply flawed?



Does the Defence Research Establishment still have a research facility there?

Having been to Suffield a few times the training area is barren and devoid of  trees.  It might be a good area for mech ops. For dismounted infantry not so much.


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## Kirkhill (24 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Siberia might be a little more appealing.
> 
> Full transcontinental passenger rail service and access to some real culture
> 
> ...




Git!


Pay no heed to the rusty lump of moss on the coast.   The Hat is a decent little town.  Well serviced and well connected.


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## dangerboy (24 Nov 2021)

OldSolduer said:


> Does the Defence Research Establishment still have a research facility there?
> 
> Having been to Suffield a few times the training area is barren and devoid of  trees.  It might be a good area for mech ops. For dismounted infantry not so much.



Yes they do. It is an interesting place

Defence Research and Development Canada research centres - Canada.ca


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## Gorgo (24 Nov 2021)

Sad for Suffield, but I can understand why the British are moving to clear out of the area if they wish to reorientate to a more "global" posture; after all, our corner of the world is rather quiet in comparison to the Middle East and eastern Europe.

Still, it would be good for 1 CMBG to spread out its footprint beyond Edmonton and Shilo (and Wainwright as well).  Getting the Strathconas down to where they can play with a full regiment's worth of tanks would do wonders for them.


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## OldSolduer (24 Nov 2021)

Gorgo said:


> Sad for Suffield, but I can understand why the British are moving to clear out of the area if they wish to reorientate to a more "global" posture; after all, our corner of the world is rather quiet in comparison to the Middle East and eastern Europe.


The ME has the advantage as it could be used as a year round training area. Its the same reason the Germans dumped Shilo for Texas.

I would not bet against an secondary underlying political reason for the move either.


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## dimsum (24 Nov 2021)

UK Mod Twitter says they're not closing BATUS, so I'm not sure where the article's info is from...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463446246056681479


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## FormerHorseGuard (24 Nov 2021)

Guess they ran out of used Subs to trade for training space?


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## Czech_pivo (24 Nov 2021)

OldSolduer said:


> The ME has the advantage as it could be used as a year round training area. Its the same reason the Germans dumped Shilo for Texas.
> 
> I would not bet against an secondary underlying political reason for the move either.


One could say that its part of a strategy by the UK/US to slowly pressure us to step up and start to actually begin lifting/carrying our own weight.


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## OldTanker (24 Nov 2021)

My favourite BATUS story. I was RSS with the SALH in Medicine Hat in the late 70s. For a while we lived in MQ's in Suffield and I would drive the lonely highway into the Hat every morning. One day I noticed a squaddie standing by the east-bound side of the highway, hitchhiking. I stopped and asked him where he was going. "I've got three days off and am heading to Toronto to visit my cousin. The guys in the barracks said come down to the highway, turn left and stay on it till I hit Toronto." Technically he was correct, but I explained to him it would take him longer than his three days leave just to get to Toronto and convinced him Calgary was a better option. I dropped him off, watched him cross the highway and start heading west, thumb extended. The Brits always had problems understanding the size of Canada.


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## kev994 (24 Nov 2021)

OldTanker said:


> My favourite BATUS story. I was RSS with the SALH in Medicine Hat in the late 70s. For a while we lived in MQ's in Suffield and I would drive the lonely highway into the Hat every morning. One day I noticed a squaddie standing by the east-bound side of the highway, hitchhiking. I stopped and asked him where he was going. "I've got three days off and am heading to Toronto to visit my cousin. The guys in the barracks said come down to the highway, turn left and stay on it till I hit Toronto." Technically he was correct, but I explained to him it would take him longer than his three days leave just to get to Toronto and convinced him Calgary was a better option. I dropped him off, watched him cross the highway and start heading west, thumb extended. The Brits always had problems understanding the size of Canada.


When I went through NFTC there were quite a few foreign students so part of the in-brief was an overlay of Europe onto the CLAWR.


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## Colin Parkinson (24 Nov 2021)

OldSolduer said:


> The ME has the advantage as it could be used as a year round training area. Its the same reason the Germans dumped Shilo for Texas.
> 
> I would not bet against an secondary underlying political reason for the move either.


More like the Germans decided another run at Moscow was not in the cards.


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## Weinie (24 Nov 2021)

OldTanker said:


> My favourite BATUS story. I was RSS with the SALH in Medicine Hat in the late 70s. For a while we lived in MQ's in Suffield and I would drive the lonely highway into the Hat every morning. One day I noticed a squaddie standing by the east-bound side of the highway, hitchhiking. I stopped and asked him where he was going. "I've got three days off and am heading to Toronto to visit my cousin. The guys in the barracks said come down to the highway, turn left and stay on it till I hit Toronto." Technically he was correct, but I explained to him it would take him longer than his three days leave just to get to Toronto and convinced him Calgary was a better option. I dropped him off, watched him cross the highway and start heading west, thumb extended. The Brits always had problems understanding the size of Canada.


After trades training, I was posted to Shilo in 1984. A German colleague from GATES regaled us with how they were continually dealing with students sent from Germany to Shilo for training, who decided they would rent a car and visit Niagara Falls on the weekend. They fretted over ways to brief new attendees and finally opted to pull down a map of Canada, with a “You are here” over Shilo, and then interpose a to-scale map of Europe over it. It seemed to work, as the number of frantic calls to the GATES duty officer on Sunday evenings decreased dramatically.


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## dimsum (24 Nov 2021)

Weinie said:


> After trades training, I was posted to Shilo in 1984. A German colleague from GATES regaled us with how they were continually dealing with students sent from Germany to Shilo for training, who decided they would rent a car and visit Niagara Falls on the weekend. They fretted over ways to brief new attendees and finally opted to pull down a map of Canada, with a “You are here” over Shilo, and then interpose a to-scale map of Europe over it. It seemed to work, as the number of frantic calls to the GATES duty officer on Sunday evenings decreased dramatically.


Same sort of thing for the international students in language school in St-Jean. 

I and other Canadian students had to do that more than once.  One European wanted to drive to Vancouver from SJ and back over a wkd.


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## Czech_pivo (24 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> More like the Germans decided another run at Moscow was not in the cards.


There's not enough Prussian bloodlines left to even consider this as an option.


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## FJAG (24 Nov 2021)

OldSolduer said:


> Does the Defence Research Establishment still have a research facility there?
> 
> Having been to Suffield a few times the training area is barren and devoid of  trees.  It might be a good area for mech ops. For dismounted infantry not so much.


I went out there once as safety officer for an L5s live firing exercise in the middle of winter. Basically three weeks in arctic tents and on snowmobiles. Long before GPS was a thing. It was definitely a map reading challenge. 🥶



OldTanker said:


> The Brits always had problems understanding the size of Canada.


As did the German in Shilo heading for Mexico on a four day pass. 

Based on the report that they are closing out of Germany to open up a facility in Oman seems to indicate that the Brits still don't understand the size of the world and the complications of redeploying a battlegroup. At least coming from Canada they don't have to ship through the Suez. It's roughly the same 6,000 km to reposition troops and equipment from Canada or Oman to the UK. And if they need those 22 tanks from Suffield in the Ukraine that quickly then good luck. If in the Baltics then its an extra three hours flying time. And then there's the whole China thing. Bull feathers. This has everything to do with cozying back up to their old Middle Eastern public school chums.



Czech_pivo said:


> There's not enough Prussian bloodlines left to even consider this as an option.


I'm in that genetic group but wouldn't even contemplate it. 


🍻


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## GR66 (24 Nov 2021)

FJAG said:


> I'm in that genetic group but wouldn't even contemplate it.
> 
> 
> 🍻


3rd time's a charm???

😝


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## FJAG (24 Nov 2021)

GR66 said:


> 3rd time's a charm???
> 
> 😝


Our family motto was "Si bellum; ad Gallum" - "If you want to make war, go to France". Worked every time until those pesky allies got involved the last two times.

😁


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## The Bread Guy (24 Nov 2021)

dapaterson said:


> Medicine Hat real estate seems reasonable: 298 Medicine Hat Real Estate MLS® Listings & Houses for Sale | REALTOR.ca


For now, anyway ...

Meanwhile, here's another bit of the UK MoD Info-machine with its take on whazzup (highlights mine) - archived version here ...


> Ben Wallace dismissed reports that troops would be completely leaving British Army Training Unit Suffield (BATUS) in Alberta, Canada, the service's largest battleground in the world, to move to the Middle East.
> 
> British soldiers have been training at BATUS since 1972.
> 
> ...


This bit of sub-title from the same outlet draws the eye, too (highlights mine) - archived version here ...


> ... The huge training site in Canada is still useful for the military, says a former commander, as *transformation talk develops. ...*


🍿


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## CBH99 (25 Nov 2021)

To be fair, the ME & Africa are both a lot closer to them than we are.  And if the proxy wars of the future are most likely to happen in those theatres, it does make sense to do their training in a climate/terrain similar to what they will be operating in.  

Shilo is great because it has so much space.  Like…so so so much space.  But it is also a frozen wasteland for six months of the year.  


Is it the US/UK pressuring us to step up?  Perhaps.   

But it also could just be that the ME & Africa are closer, easier to fly troops to/from, and are more realistic training environments in terms of cultures, languages, climate adjustment, etc.


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## OldSolduer (25 Nov 2021)

Speaking of Shilo I have made numerous trips there. There is a variety of terrain there that makes it ideal for winter ops.


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## dangerboy (25 Nov 2021)

OldSolduer said:


> Speaking of Shilo I have made numerous trips there. There is a variety of terrain there that makes it ideal for winter ops.


Lots of ridgelines. Still hearing the dreaded words of "weapons det toboggan, that ridgeline there"


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## OldSolduer (25 Nov 2021)

dangerboy said:


> Lots of ridgelines. Still hearing the dreaded words of "weapons det toboggan, that ridgeline there"


I recall that ex. Years later when I was with The Royal Winnipeg Rifles we traversed many of those ridgelines. Not alot of fun. Everyone was involved in getting the toboggan up the hills.


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