# Unimog



## bossi (21 Feb 2001)

(hopefully Freightliner will find a way to appease the "buy Canadian" gods, so that the CF can buy some of these!)

Report: 18-wheeler maker Freightliner introduces extra large SUV 
By Associated Press, 2/21/2001 01:45 
NEW YORK (AP) Freightliner Corp. reportedly has plans to begin selling an extra-large four-wheel-drive vehicle more than nine feet tall and seven feet wide, introducing to American consumers a sport utility better known for its use by the German military. 
Freightliner, a unit of Germany‘s Daimler Chrysler AG and the top manufacturer of heavy trucks in the United States, will begin taking orders in October for the vehicle, called Unimog, The New York Times reported on Wednesday. The diesel-fueled vehicle, which has a 52-gallon tank and gets about 10 miles per gallon of gas, will sell for a base price of $84,000, the Times reported. 
The Unimog will be produced in Gaggenau, Germany, but targeted at people living in the suburbs of America: affluent off-road enthusiasts, fire departments and businesses needing to haul some 13,000 pounds worth of passengers and cargo, according to the Times. 
The Unimog is a foot longer than Ford Motor Co.‘s Excursion and 3.5 inches wider than General Motors Corp.‘s Hummer, a vehicle whose design is based on an American military transport. Freightliner hopes to begin selling 1,000 Unimogs a year, the Times reported.


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## Mud Crawler (21 Feb 2001)

Don‘t be too quick to jump on some new piece of kit, just because whatr it would replace could be better.Just on the concielment side, it‘s not that good, its 9 feet tall, its 3 feet taller than me and taller than an m1a1 abraham.What DND can do though, is to buy 2 or 3 or it and a few of it‘s competitors and test them and buy the BEST of em, not the cheapest of em like certain choppers due to replace our Older-than-the-pilots Sea King that necessitate more maintnance hour per hour of flight than what the pilots sleeps in a night.


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## XGnr (21 Feb 2001)

Unimog???  Sounds familiar - didn‘t we have some of these vehicles in the early 80‘s?  I recall their employment with some engineer sub-units. If so, I wonder what the reasons were for the CF to can this fleet.  

Perhaps the lessons learned with the past version can be used to test the new version - if (there it is - the biggest word in procurement) the CF is interested in obtaining this vehicle.


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## JRMACDONALD (21 Feb 2001)

Unimog vehs have been in service in Europe( German/ French, and i think, Italian Armies) for several decades. There are several Variants
( types and sizes). They have a high level of mobility and very sound design and mechanics( something to do with the Wehrmacht experience on the Eastern Front, 1940-45). They are an excellent vehicle. ( probably, the reason we‘ll never get it!)  I remember we had several in our Battalion( mostly, Coy AMB) in Croatia, in 92.


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## USMCMatt (21 Feb 2001)

The Unimog was actually one of the contenders in the LSVW project during the early 90‘s.  If I recall it was going to be built under license by Freightliner Canada (the vehicle is actually a Mercedes-Benz).  Other candidates were the Steyr-Puch "Noriker-Pinzgauer" (the same company from whom the HLVW [an outstanding vehicle] was licensed).

Also included was a militarised Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel engine.

And last and least, also the winner, the Iveco/Western Star Italian breadtruck with mark 1 non-tactical brakes, suicidal coolant preheater, and various other faulty parts too numerous to list.

In hindsight, maybe it would have been a better idea to have purchased the HMMWV and kill two birds with one stone by replacing the CUCV/5quarter ton truck and the Iltis with one vehicle.

Anyways, that‘s just my two cents.


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## McG (21 Feb 2001)

HMMWV have their faults too.  Especially on narrow European roads.

Here are official: http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/ecars/unimog/default.htm 
and unofficial sites dedicated to the Unimog. http://www.unimog.net/


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## bossi (22 Feb 2001)

LOL - I have to say thanks for a hearty chuckle!
(my reaction to "... something to do with the Wehrmacht experience on the Eastern Front, 1940-45...").  I‘ve heard similar sentiments expressed regarding numerous vehicles (especially when discussing axle height and mud ...) - Probably something an army should rate highly when selecting criteria for evaluation, in my personal opinion (but, I‘m not a politically-motivated engineer ... )

I‘ve been interested in the Unimog since the 70‘s, but am impressed by the info you‘ve all shared - thanks again.


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## hhour48 (22 Feb 2001)

How about the Gelaendewagen G500(aka "Wolf") replacing the Iltis?


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## 2 Charlie (23 Feb 2001)

From Bratok:
 "How about the Gelaendewagen G500 (aka "Wolf") replacing the Iltis? "

Good lord, have you priced this piece of kit?  Over US $135, 000 for a mil spec.  If the CF wants to replace the Iltis with another disposable, there are a lot out there on the open market for a lot less.

If we are going to spend this kind of money, this will work out to approx Cdn $200, 000.  I a have read and seen the odd thing hinting at this vehicle, I pray not.  This is of course as long as we don‘t build them in Canada, then they will probably run out at Cdn $225-250 g.

For this amount we can buy a UNIMOG, a whole fleet of UNIMOG‘s, same designer, no figure?

But, like everything else if it makes sense, then don‘t expect it to happen.


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## JRMACDONALD (23 Feb 2001)

Agreed, 2Charlie. Look at LSVW, 89-100K per copy, and we could have got MIL SPEC Hummer at half the price.


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## hhour48 (24 Feb 2001)

UNIMOG is a bigger, different class vehicle, though  It belongs with the US HUMVEE, Swiss MOWAG, French PANHARD

Anyways, here are some pics. Thought you might be interested in what other armies drive 

The German Gelaendewagen:






The British Land Rover:





The Russian UAZ:





The US HUMVEE:


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## Harry (26 Feb 2001)

Hello all,

Good topic, lots of good rapport.  Lets expand it a bit and have a quiz.

1.  Which vehicle portrayed above can be adapted to the most variants:  i.e., command post, amb, recce, weapons platform, personnel support, logistics, EME, etc?

2.  Which vehicle can mount the widest variety of weapons systems:  section level; platoon level, company level, battalion level, regimental, brigade, etc?  These weapons consist of the Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) (C-9 to us), PAW (C-6 to us), 50 cal., 40 mm grenade launcher, TOW, Anti Air Missiles, recce platforms  (similar to those on the Coyote), up to a 25 mm cannon in a special turret mount, and pretty much anything else imaginable (within reason).

3.  What vehicle is designed to be the easiest for maintainers to work on?  

4.  What is the obvious draw back to this vehicle?  Is this really an impediment, or are we basing this opinion upon a perceived set notion of what role the vehicle should fill based upon our experiences?  As an aside, these vehicles usually accompany other vehicles with wider track or wheelbases.  So is our concern of width truly an issue? 

5.  After mulling this over, rationalize that the vehicle I have hinted at, was a true military design, a hybrid, created to be both robust and highly adaptable for a multitude of roles.  This vehicle, unlike the others depicted did not start its life as a civilian pattern to be adapted for military use.  It was hard-core mil spec, which has found its way into todayâ€™s mainstream.  

Close to home, the Iltis was a true military design based upon earlier successful German vehicles.  But I would be remiss to not point out that the Germans discontinued this style due to the inherent shortcomings of payload, restrictive operational use to cite but a few reasons.  Yes they are robust, but compare them to the Gelaendewagen, no comparison.  Unfortunately the G wagon is from a civ pattern and very expensive, as has been pointed out.  

To recall the Unimogâ€™s, 4 Fd Amb ran them in Germany, then they were used in the Balkans after CFE closed out.  Great piece of kit, highly adaptable, but in reality a Hummer can do the job of this veh for cheaper, same for the LSVW, with a lower silhouette.  

If any one recalls we also had the 10 ton-8 wheel MANâ€™s in Germany, they ended up in the Balkans as well and were turned over to the UN.  I was working in UNOMIG (Georgia) two years ago and guess what, found a couple over there that none of the local drivers could use.  They still had the CFE unit IDâ€™s, and CDN UN markings.  Needless to say, I had a couple of days of fun showing the drivers how to operate them and got a few souvenirs to boot. 

No I am not a proponent of the Hummer, but if one looks at all the choices, compare it to the role that needs to be filled, it becomes an interesting race.  I would like to see the CF keep a small light vehicle, but for dollar rationalization and fiscal reality, this is a decision I am personally glad I do not have to make.  At the end of the day, I hope the lessons of the LSVW have not been forgotten.  Subsequently, I believe what ever is chosen will be well received by the troops.


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## Yard Ape (26 Feb 2001)

The answer to all of the above is the Hummer.  It would be the best choice for the Canadian Army, and who cares if it does not fit European roads?  It does not need roads.

 Yard Ape


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## Brad Sallows (28 Feb 2001)

I wonder what it would cost to mass-produce a run of 1940‘s-era Willys Jeeps with a contemporary power train.


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## Mud Crawler (1 Mar 2001)

i heard it takes only 2 to 3 hours for a trained crew to take a Willys jeep down and build it up again


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## ocknod (3 Mar 2001)

Why is everybody wanting to change vehicles.   Look at the mess we are in with the lsvw!!!  The ILTIS is a good jeep, gets the job done just fine.   Why did we replace the cucv-5/4 ton?????   I though it was a good truck, easy to maintain, and it too got the job done.   I think the CF would be crazy to pick up the hummer.   It‘s big, bulky, and i‘ll tell you what i‘ll get into a lot more places with an ILTIS than you will with a Hummer!

SECURTIAS

OCKNOD


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## Yard Ape (6 Mar 2001)

Should we not also consider an armoured equivalent.  Not to replace the iltis, but to augment it (or its replacment).






 Yard Ape


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## garb811 (11 May 2001)

To revive this thread...

Saw an interesting Janes Defence article the other day.  Apparently the only company to submit a return to the request for proposals was DaimlerChrysler with the Gelaendewagen.  All others, including Western Star which has been bought by Freightliner, have declined the opportunity.  Apparently Western Stars decision was based on their evaluation of the possibility of future sales...zero.


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