# Selling of Apartment and hardship



## Cbbmtt (16 Feb 2015)

When I applied to the forces, I understood that I would not be located in Maple Ridge where my apartment is located. At the time of application prior to enrollment, I put my apartment up for sale immediately and moved out and in with my parents renting the apartment to help with the costs of the mortgage (NOT FOR INCOME). In January my furniture and effects were put into storage and the apartment was still rented out at that point. This rental was approved by strata council as a hardship rental, because the apartment building does not allow rentals. Because of my financial situation and not being able to live in the apartment. 

As of August 2015 they have refused the renewal of the hardship as it has been 2 years of hardship rental which is the maximum that is allowed as per strata.

My current Mortgage payments are $920/per month plus $417 strata fee which accumulate to $1337 a month. 

I purchased the apartment in 2010 for $172,000 and the current mortgage on it is $154,000. I have recently dropped the purchase price to $159,900 and stating that I would pay the first 6 months strata and I have still not sold the apartment. Selling at this cost will make me owe more than what I have in equity on the apartment. With the relator fee included, I would end up owing in upwards of $10,000 after the sale of the apartment in essence I will have lost $30,000 on this investment that I started in 2010. Any additional funds owing on the mortgage, I was going to pay with my RRSPs that I have saved up over the years.

I will be paying for housing at my new posting and a mortgage in Maple Ridge making me go into a deficit every month after car and loan payments are taken out of my account. This will no doubt lead to none payment of my mortgage and possible financial hardship and possible bankruptcy within the next 2 years.

There is no easy way out of this situation and the forces will not help with any of this because I rented it out.

Anyone ever cross something like this?


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## DAA (16 Feb 2015)

Yup, seen it a few times.   If you are authorized to Sell a "principle residence" at the time of relocation, then Principle Residence is defined as:

CFIRP Manual, Chap 1, Sect 1.4 (Definitions)

Principal Residence
A dwelling in Canada, other than a summer cottage or other seasonal accommodation, together with that portion of land (1.25 acres or less) that:

•Is situated at the location to which the CF member's Household Goods and Effects were last moved at public expense or at a location from which the CF member is authorized to move Household Goods and Effects where the CF member's Household Goods and Effects have never been moved at public expense;
•Is owned by the CF member or the CF member's dependants or jointly by the CF member and the CF member's dependants; and
•Was occupied by the CF member, the CF member's dependants or both, immediately prior to official notification of the posting (as defined by Canada Revenue Agency).


Therefore, if you did not "physically" occupy the residence, then it cannot be considered to be your "principle residence" regardless of the circumstances.

Or Article 8.02

8.2.02 Occupancy requirements
CF members or their dependants must occupy the principal residence immediately prior to the sale, in order to be entitled to reimbursement of expenses related to the sale.


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## Cbbmtt (17 Feb 2015)

I occupied the residence prior to applying and being accepted by the forces.


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## RedcapCrusader (17 Feb 2015)

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> I occupied the residence prior to applying and being accepted by the forces.



But you moved in with your parents so how is that "must occupy the principal residence immediately prior to the sale"


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## PuckChaser (17 Feb 2015)

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> At the time of application prior to enrollment, I put my apartment up for sale immediately and moved out and in with my parents renting the apartment to help with the costs of the mortgage (NOT FOR INCOME).



So you want the CAF to cover your costs on an apartment you moved out of prior to being enrolled in the CAF? At what point does that sound fair to the taxpayer?


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## PMedMoe (17 Feb 2015)

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> I occupied the residence prior to applying and being accepted by the forces.



Still doesn't qualify.  Both articles quoted by DAA state occupied _immediately_ prior to the sale/official notice of posting.

Occupying it prior to applying and/or being accepted/enrolled to the Forces does not fulfill either of those requirements.


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## runormal (18 Feb 2015)

Is there anything different for renovations? I have a buddy who was in the process of renovating his house prior to getting the call for basic. He was however living with his parents during the renovations and never finished them prior to basic. His dad is currently finishing up the remainders. 

Based on what DAA posted, I imagine likely not, just curious if there was a sub article that was specific for renovations.

Cheers


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## DAA (18 Feb 2015)

runormal said:
			
		

> Is there anything different for renovations? I have a buddy who was in the process of renovating his house prior to getting the call for basic. He was however living with his parents during the renovations and never finished them prior to basic. His dad is currently finishing up the remainders.
> 
> Based on what DAA posted, I imagine likely not, just curious if there was a sub article that was specific for renovations.
> 
> Cheers



In a situation such as this, the individual might have a case for reimbursement, provided that the home remained vacant and was never rented out.  If the person resided in the owned residence, vacated for renovation purposes and had full intention of re-occupying once the renovations were completed, it would be worth their time and effort to seek recourse and have DCBA Adjudicate.


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## runormal (18 Feb 2015)

Thanks DAA,

I will relay this thread to him.


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## Cbbmtt (18 Feb 2015)

I'm obviously not going to win this, but I want to stress this if not for me, then a friend of mine in a similar scenario.

When I went to basic, my stuff was moved out of my apartment and the apartment was for sale and I put a renter in there. I lived in this apartment for over 2 years. I will never be able to move back into that unit. The apartment was just over $1300 a month to maintain with mortgage and strata, so not having a renter in there while I was at basic would not work. I barely got over that in wage to go to basic.

According to these rules and regulations I would have had to have left my apartment completely empty with no renter from January onward putting me basically into bankruptcy. 

If I could live at my apartment and do the job if it was near by, of course that's what I would be doing. I'm not asking for all the benefits but some kind of assistance to sell would be nice considering I was not renting for a profit. I was actually receiving less than my payments. 


My friends scenario is that he went on course for ATC and when he got back to base, his place was for sale and he was the last one that lived in it. Some people here told him to rent it till it was sold, it shouldn't be a problem and he rented it out while it was for sale and it's still for sale but now he's not getting help from the Forces.

As long as you don't rent your unit, you will get help? We're all in the same boat when we have to relocate and we are relocating because that's what we're told to do. I'm not looking for handout, but if you are forced to sell to move regardless if you rented out your unit, there should be some sort of assistance.


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## DAA (18 Feb 2015)

Cbbmtt said:
			
		

> As long as you don't rent your unit, you will get help? We're all in the same boat when we have to relocate and we are relocating because that's what we're told to do. I'm not looking for handout, but if you are forced to sell to move regardless if you rented out your unit, there should be some sort of assistance.



Yes, that's right!  But the CF will not reimburse you for relocation benefits on the sale of a residence that would now be classified as an "income generating property", no matter how small the income.  While at BMQ/BMOQ the property could be sold and or actively marketted while you are on course/undergoing training.  But the danger in doing this, is that if you do happen to sell but don't reach the point in your new career which would give rise to the entitlement of relocation benefits, then you are out of pocket again.

It's a tricky situation and one I would not want to find myself in, as a single member.

While the CFIRP Manual can and does get interpretted in BLACK AND WHITE, you will notice in my original response above the occupancy caveate "(as defined by Canada Revenue Agency)."   So if the CF will not reimburse you but should you meet the CRA interpretation(s), then you just might have a case.


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