# Stalwart Guardian 04



## Marauder (7 Sep 2004)

As far as SG04 goes, well, let's say I was slightly underwhelmed for what was ostenibly an Area ex. It was sorta like a brigade ex with a few more toys but the same amount of endless clusterfucks and people blaming buddy up and down the chain for the shit that went wrong. I will say that this year's camping adventure in good 'ole Pet wasn't near the level of numpty fucked as last year's Stillborn Gaylord, and there was actually plenty of ammo (hey, I was dumbfounded too). Then again they were still handing out big bags of gay all around. This year I couldn't even bring myself to get pissed off at the endless dumb shit, just a roll of the eyes and "soldier on, soldier." Funniest incident: The Bn CO addressing the troops and saying that "this is NOT STAND TRAINING, it is a tactical exercise", followed minutes later by the Bn DCO reminding us "to keep safety at the forefront for each of the stands you will be training on". Simple humour yes, but priceless at the time. Second best was the 1RCR FIBUA/OBUA/MOUT (I don't know which is the acronym du jour this week) SME droning on about how "When I worked with Delta" and "The SAS showed me that..." in our AAR for our first attack that had us at 95 of 140 in the coy as casualties. But we got ours in the second attack, when we just about wiped them out to a man when they fucked up bad and overcommitted to rushing the nice little kill zone we had set up. :evil:

As far as rats went, well, gotta say the IMPs tasted better than the "fresh" (guffaw) hayboxes we had. And the smoker was about the only thing set up worse this year than last, but that may have just been my LIBs RQ, who knows. Two beers (enforced by some faceless corporal at the beer table) after a week of slogging, sleep dep, and general random supidity was a nice pat on the ass, regardless. The funny thing about the rats was the huge Day-Glo sticker on some that warned that the honey was not fit for human consumption (insert the obvious joke here).

So, overall, it was a weeks pay earned the dumb way.


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## brin11 (7 Sep 2004)

I always look forward to the Smoker but there wasn't one at Arcon this year.  Nothing...at least where I was.


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## Jarnhamar (7 Sep 2004)

I was listening to a few birdies about the pet ex.
Lost c7, c7 with m203. 46 misplaced bolts. Griffin hitting a tree. Something about a griffin hitting an ML which hit a tree (or something along those lines). The list went on.   A buddy of mine who stayed behind for rear party said he found enough kit to make santa's elves bow their heads in reverence.
Some blatent favoritisim between some platoons.
All in all though i really wish i was able to make it. I always get a kick out of the smoker. I give it a few years before we see armed military police standing guard at the beer table and a 'beer CSM' making sure troops get ONLY TWO BEER.


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## portcullisguy (8 Sep 2004)

I knew about the lost C7, which apparently fell into Chalk Bay, out of the hands of a G&SF soldier.  I wasn't aware of the other issues ... lost M203, lost bolts, etc.

During cleaning on the say of the smoker, someone from my unit nearly lost a spring from the feed tray cover of the C6 we were cleaning.  Luckily it was found in the grass near our cleaning table, and we saved ourselves some paperwork.  Especially since that's only supposed to be stripped by a weapons tech (us infantry troopies are too often losing those little bits, I guess).

I'm glad I wasn't in the Griffon that hit a tree.  I don't have a great load of faith in our rotary wing equipment to begin with, and that would've made me REAL nervous about getting in one again.

I "acquired" some kit of my own, but then again, I wasn't really looking.  I located a C9 cleaning tool for the gas plug, which are always in short supply.  I nearly had myself a tent, all packed up in a kit bag and ready to go, except I had a guilty conscience - and didn't want to carry the extra kit anyway - and returned it to the Royals, who had left it behind after packing up their CQ.

I also left about 2 pints of blood in the thousands of mosquitos that assaulted me constantly for 9 days in Pet.  Now there's tons of A RH NEG little flying bastards around there.  Hope they choke on it.


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## chrisf (8 Sep 2004)

Reference the beer, my prediction is that in the near future, you will sign for your two beer, thus eliminating the need for anyone to check and ensure you've only had two beer... unfortunately, if you don't return your empties to the QM, the $0.20 deposit will become attached to your social insurance number, and will haunt you for the rest of your life if you're applying for a federal government job.


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## Spanky (8 Sep 2004)

Too bad you guys did not like the ex.  It certainly was stand type training, despite the protestations to the contrary, but at least the stands were good.  The blocking positions saw us with a poop load of ammo.  It was certainly "staged", but fun nontheless.  The raid tasking we (recce) had great.  The use of the boats and the type of task itself was new to us so we found it challenging but interesting and motivating as well.  The recce by chopper conducted by the patrol commanders was a bonus.  Our Sqn never did get to do the convoy escort.
There was a bit of slow time between "stands" but that allowed us to perform good battle procedure.
The Sunday with the swim test, wpn zeroing was a waste of time.  The ARR started by having difficulty finding Ilitis (initially 13 for three Sqns), they came through and found well over 40 almost overnight.  
Our guys enjoyed the smoker especially after the official festivities ended. :blotto:
A good ex all in all. ;D


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## Redeye (8 Sep 2004)

The C7/M203 that was lost was evidently left on the bus by a sleepf***ed troop.   The bus driver (according to semi-reliable intel) went home oblivious, until the MPs showed up at his place asking to get on the bus and recover the lost weapon.   Imagine what might have happened if the bus driver was aware of its presence?

How did a rifle fall into Chalk Bay?   Did the troop neglect to lash it to the boat or something?

(edit - corrected an un-PC orthographic matter)


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## PuckChaser (8 Sep 2004)

Imagine the bus driver picking up kids for school, and some 8 year old finding it in the backseat.  ;D


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## Redeye (8 Sep 2004)

Spanky said:
			
		

> Too bad you guys did not like the ex.   It certainly was stand type training, despite the protestations to the contrary, but at least the stands were good.   The blocking positions saw us with a poop load of ammo.   It was certainly "staged", but fun nontheless.   The raid tasking we (recce) had great.   The use of the boats and the type of task itself was new to us so we found it challenging but interesting and motivating as well.   The recce by chopper conducted by the patrol commanders was a bonus.   Our Sqn never did get to do the convoy escort.
> There was a bit of slow time between "stands" but that allowed us to perform good battle procedure.
> The Sunday with the swim test, wpn zeroing was a waste of time.   The ARR started by having difficulty finding Ilitis (initially 13 for three Sqns), they came through and found well over 40 almost overnight.
> Our guys enjoyed the smoker especially after the official festivities ended. :blotto:
> A good ex all in all. ;D



Was the recce you were involved in for the raid only for your brigade group's formation?  The recce we had for our raid was nearly useless, their route was a track, which was not on for infantry, and their choice of ORV was great for a Cougar harbour, but not especially ideal for light infantry - the company commander I was with ended up firing them and using his own assets for recce.


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## George Wallace (9 Sep 2004)

Redeye said:
			
		

> Was the recce you were involved in for the raid only for your brigade group's formation? The recce we had for our raid was nearly useless, their route was a track, which was not on for infantry, and their choice of ORV was great for a Cougar harbour, but not especially ideal for light infantry - the company commander I was with ended up firing them and using his own assets for recce.



This seems like an odd statement to me....Could you elaborate a little more for me?

I can't figure out why light infantry wouldn't be able to move up a track, nor why a Coy wouldn't fit into a Cougar harbour?   Were they mounted or dismounted?   Not being there, nor seeing the ground, I am wondering where and how your statement would be made about a position in Pet?

GW


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## Spanky (9 Sep 2004)

I believe the Inf we recced for was our own Bde group. We conducted our recces on the Tuesday, and met the boats early Wednesday morning.  I heard about some of the other Sqns having some "difficulty".  Very little in the way of track to the ORV we recced.
George, they were dismounted.


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## Sh0rtbUs (9 Sep 2004)

IMP's are ok, but our Sgt.'s went at the IMP's first, and cleaned em out of anything good for themselves before we could get in on them, so I had my fare share of Ham Steak and Salisbury Steak...

All in All, I was surprised. The Rangers had hayboxes here and there throughout the EX, and a couple times they had a nice BBQ going by SHQ with hotdogs, burgers. Smoker was 2 beer limit, but I believe we were able to buy more on our own after the 2 were down.

We also did a Recce for the Inf. off the beach. We set up the route, had our OP established and then 2 of us went back to RV with the Infantry. they declined to use our route and took the beach.


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## 48Highlander (9 Sep 2004)

well, the QYRANGS attached to us spent about 5 minutes arguing with the company commander about which way was north, then proceeded to lead us on a patrol which was 95% on blacktracks and covered roughly 7-8km instead of the original 3 that it was supposed to.  At one point the company SM at the rear of the patroll could see the OC off to his left, which leads me to beleive that the extra 5km was mainly due to WALKING IN CIRCLES!  Not only that, but along the way our wonderfull recce element decided to use white light to check their maps, and managed to lose half of the patroll the first time we went OFF a track because they forgot to slow down.

and THEN....as we're about to assault our objective.....after some 7 hours of stumbling around in the dark, promising the gods to kill the next armoured recce puke we saw.....one of you comes on the radio and informs us that they have eyes on our objective.  we're told to expect "anywhere between a section and a platoon" (great accuracy guys), but that there are no enemy positions south of the road.  20 minutes later when we do our assault, where do we find the majority of the enemy?  you guessed it.  south of the road.

and lastly, as we're getting ready to pull off the position, two QYRANGS come strolling by and ask us if we know where Foxtrot Company is.
    "uhh, yeah, about 3 kilometers THAT way"
    "oh, really?  ok, thanks!".  


So yeah, our AAR consisted mostly of "next time, do our own damn recce"



Oh and the rifle that went missing....they were doing a "rope bridge" river crossing....except the engineer rigged up only one rope which happened to be partially submerged.  So the poor bastards (not my company) had to drag themselves through the water, and one of them managed to lose his rifle in the process.  Had to send divers to look for it.


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## ackland (9 Sep 2004)

Fine do your own recce's Armoured recce is a brigade asset anyways and should be looking for armoured colums not a few grunts in the weeds.


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## 48Highlander (9 Sep 2004)

touchy  

armoured recce should also have armoured vehicles, but I didn't see you any in those


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## Matt_Fisher (9 Sep 2004)

TR said:
			
		

> Fine do your own recce's Armoured recce is a brigade asset anyways and should be looking for armoured colums not a few grunts in the weeds.



 :

Sounds like this thing is degenerating into "He Said...She Said..." with the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.   While I wasn't there, I can't say whether the recce. or the infantry was at fault, but when you make a comment like what I quoted, you make a donkey out of yourself.

The last time I looked Recce's primary tasks are reconnaissance and surveillance.

According to the definition found in THE RECONNAISANCE SQUADRON IN BATTLE,   NDID number: B-GL-305-002/FT-001

"Reconnaissance is a mission undertaken to obtain, by visual observation or other
detection methods, information about the activities and resources of an enemy or
potential enemy, or to secure data concerning the meteorological, hydrographic, or
geographic characteristics of a particular area.

Surveillance is the continuous, systematic watch over the battle area by visual,
aural, electronic, photographic or other means to provide information for combat
intelligence."

I don't see anywhere that reconnaissance and surveillance only involves looking for "amoured colums not a few grunts in the weeds."

If you've been given a job, do it and do it properly.   If things f*ck up, admit your mistakes and learn from them.   Don't get into a "I'm too good for that...I'm a black hatter" bs spiel.


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## Jarnhamar (9 Sep 2004)

> Fine do your own recce's Armoured recce is a brigade asset anyways and should be looking for armoured colums not a few grunts in the weeds.



Gotta becareful of the grunts in the fields. They are  the ones that make armored vehicles go pop 

(just razzin ya mate)


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## ackland (9 Sep 2004)

Got a little hot headed there. What I meant was to say just because you had a bad expeience with a few bad QY Rangs don't slag all armd recce troops. We hav our bad just like you have your bad.


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## 48Highlander (9 Sep 2004)

TR said:
			
		

> Got a little hot headed there. What I meant was to say just because you had a bad expeience with a few bad QY Rangs don't slag all armd recce troops. We hav our bad just like you have your bad.



Agreed.  I actually spent most of my summer around QYRANGS.  Got quite a few friends in that regiment.  I like poking fun at them though, and I`m deffinitely not going to let them forget about this little disaster.


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## Matt_Fisher (9 Sep 2004)

TR, 

Not a problem.   Glad to see we can conduct ourselves as professionals around here.    

Cheers!

Matt


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## Spanky (9 Sep 2004)

Just as long as you don't slag the Windsors for the difficulties experienced by others. ;D
Our recces went well thank you very much!!!!!


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## QORvanweert (9 Sep 2004)

My brother is a medic with 25 field hospital and participated in Stalwart. He told me that at the beginning of one engagement a recce company got chewed up rather badly by the guardsmen but other then this we did rather well... how do you think the week went?


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## Redeye (10 Sep 2004)

Wow... I didn't mean to start a big game of pokey-chest.  Armoured Recce does have an important role to play in the battle, but what I witnessed during SG04 wasn't too impressive.  I'm going to stick to no names, no units, no pack drill - because I'm not out to slag people just because of their cap badge.  What my hope is out of the PXR and AARs is that this sort of situation doesn't repeat itself in the future.

Here was the recce experience to which I was party:

The guide who met us on the beach was smoking a cigarette, first off, and that is an absolute showstopper to us.  When they (the ARR-types) tried to tell us the route they were taking us on to our ORV, they started to argue with our company commander, who politely (but firmly) informed them that he had no intention of using the ORV they had chosen, which would have been suitable as a vehicle harbour, but owing to its obvious use, most likely bracketed by enemy artillery and thus unsuitable.  After a bit of debate, he basically told them to beat it and got a recce det from the company to lead us to the objective and then to the extraction point.

My point is that it seems that since PRes Armd units are being re-roled into Armd Recce and then actually tasked with dismounted recce, some investment should be made in training these troops in cross-country navigation (which was apparently a common problem), dismounted recce skills, etc.  It was perceived by many that the fact that the routes were almost entirely blacktracks was an obvious sign of a disconnect, because the infantry just doesn't walk on the road, unless there really, really isn't any other option.

That whole thing was my only real point to improve on for the next SG.


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## ackland (10 Sep 2004)

Redeye said:
			
		

> My point is that it seems that since PRes Armd units are being re-roled into Armd Recce and then actually tasked with dismounted recce, some investment should be made in training these troops in cross-country navigation (which was apparently a common problem), dismounted recce skills, etc.   It was perceived by many that the fact that the routes were almost entirely blacktracks was an obvious sign of a disconnect, because the infantry just doesn't walk on the road, unless there really, really isn't any other option.
> 
> That whole thing was my only real point to improve on for the next SG.



not aan excusebut just a point. With the" since PRes Armd units are being re-roled into Armd Recce " You have to remember that some reservist ahavenot had time to take recce courses yet and will be doing so soon. A lot of old tankers who are used to moving big hunks of metal will take some time to make the adjustment to recce. It will happen eventually though.

Those people being spoken about in the repeating of the ssamestory are a few bad seeds. not the whole of the armed recce. Someone must have had a good recce experience.


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## Gayson (10 Sep 2004)

A lot of us incountered problems on that patrol.

A bunch of us set up a little hide that night as we were expecting a coy of infantry to arrive and make contact with using the light signal.  I was off sentry shift at the time getting some sleep, apparently 2 coy's of infantry ran by our position and did not reply to us when we were signalling them.

Than there was that crazy thick bush that gave us a little trouble navigating at first, but we managed and got to our objective on time.   >


As for the statement that being armoured recce guys we should have been mounted.  I have to disagree here, though we are primarily mounted being recce troups requires us to be able to operate dismounted.  When we do a recce it's not uncommon for us to drive part of the way than dismount to do our recce.  To me were considered armoured recce because we are highly mobile using vehicles like the griffins in that ex.  After all the iltis is hardly armoured.


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## ackland (10 Sep 2004)

J. Gayson said:
			
		

> As for the statement that being armoured recce guys we should have been mounted.   I have to disagree here, though we are primarily mounted being recce troups requires us to be able to operate dismounted.   When we do a recce it's not uncommon for us to drive part of the way than dismount to do our recce.   To me were considered armoured recce because we are highly mobile using vehicles like the griffins in that ex.   After all the iltis is hardly armoured.



We are supossed to do all our recces that way. You've been in what a year? off course for like a month? glad to see you are an expert on armoured recce tactics. Long foot recces are Infantry territory. We are supposed to be more manuverable and be able to be long distances a head of the brigade. 30 km and such. We are considered armoured because we are mounted and fall under the banner of the RCAC not because we are in armoured vehicles, although teh GGHG and 1st Hussars are. The Griffin ride was a treat not a norm. when you've been on more than one exersise and spent some time in the  role of a crewman you'll better understand how we opperate and what our tasks are.

Do you have your DP2 recce cousre yet? or are you stiil just a qualified iltis driver?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Sep 2004)

Maybe one of the Mods could split this where we lost the food thing?   Sounds like this topic can live alone.


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Sep 2004)

It's understandable that there is friction between the Armoured recce and infantry. We never work together, so how would anyone expect to have interoperability and marry up drills. I was an O\C out ther and saw absolutely, around the bend, screwed up infantry types also. They couldn't navigate, meet timings or put in their attack properly. So it's not all one sided. Everyone needs practice, that's why they call it training. Instead of slagging each other, maybe you should get together with your correspoding unit and do some local ex's. Kinda like "OK, here's how we do this, we'd like to use you here. What do you think? Is this feasible and if so how do you think we should approach the problem?" Try working TOGETHER instead of against each other. You'll probably learn a lot from each other. Develop some drills for co-operation, write it up and send it to the Lesson Learned Centre. Maybe it'll be accepted and you won't have the clusterfucks that happened at SG 04. Put your energy to learning and trying instead of bitching.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Sep 2004)

It looks like the main problem (in the thread anyways) was that the armored guys did a recce with armored elements in mind instead of Infantry.  It could have easily been the infantry doing the recce for the armored and got it mixed up(not pointing fingers here).  It seems like someone dropped the ball and didn't enforce the fact on the armored guys that the hide/routes were for the infantry which have different considerations. Thats not a private/corporal decision. At which level would/should someone be held accountable for something like this?

Brigade ex's aside, is it possible (or maybe likely) that a reserve infantry company and a reserve armored squadren could work together on a week-end? Do some mutual training, get to know each other. See how each other work.  It seems simple enough but i'm guessing that for something like this to happen it has to go pretty high up the chain of command? Which of course takes time and before you know it the teamwork excersise you had planned for the fall got pushed back to the following spring which gets canceled because theres brigade excersises going on etc..
Infantry stuff is great and i still love doing it but it would be very interesting to start working with the armored, engineers and artillery some more. And i don't just mean "Here are your left and right arks. somewhere off to the left is another infantry company, to the right in reserve  are some armored guys"
Lets get the actual troops working together because were the ones who are going to be meeting up in the field.


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## Fusaki (10 Sep 2004)

How did you guys like the FIBUA stuff? My Enemy Force buddies claim the attacks on the FIBUA site were pretty one sided, but I'm curious to hear what it was like from another point of view. Do reservists use simunition often? Any thoughts on the house clearing drills?


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## 48Highlander (10 Sep 2004)

one of the things that was brought up at our AAR is that the engineer and recce elements which we were using for the patrol should have been present for our AAR as well.  That way everyone could have learned from all of our mistakes instead of a couple of us slagging eachother on these forums.


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## 48Highlander (10 Sep 2004)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> How did you guys like the FIBUA stuff? My Enemy Force buddies claim the attacks on the FIBUA site were pretty one sided, but I'm curious to hear what it was like from another point of view. Do reservists use simunition often? Any thoughts on the house clearing drills?



Your buddies cheated.  I shot 4 of them at close range, they returned fire and ran away.  But even if they hadn't been cheating, it would have been one sided anyway.  You'd think that since our officers get paid to think, one of 'em might have realized that the enemy was attempting to funnel us into the bank building, or that at the very least they would have listened to a MCpl who was trying to explain it to them.  Or that, upon losing two platoons in one building, they may have changed their approach a bit.  Common sense aint so common.


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## Redeye (10 Sep 2004)

TR said:
			
		

> not aan excusebut just a point. With the" since PRes Armd units are being re-roled into Armd Recce " You have to remember that some reservist ahavenot had time to take recce courses yet and will be doing so soon. A lot of old tankers who are used to moving big hunks of metal will take some time to make the adjustment to recce. It will happen eventually though.
> 
> Those people being spoken about in the repeating of the ssamestory are a few bad seeds. not the whole of the armed recce. Someone must have had a good recce experience.



Well said - and a model of exactly what we need to get at - and like recceguy highlights, there was some junk infantry-types around too, no one is immune to ineptitude.  Hopefully this experience will amplify training deficiencies to the higher-ups so we can work together more successfully in the future.


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## Spanky (10 Sep 2004)

Some very good points have been made.  48th Highlander, you're right on the money regarding the AAR. It would have helped all elements maximumize the learning process.  Greater liason as part of battle procedure would have also prevented a lot of the problems experienced by some.  As stated earlier, the entire task was one that was new to armoured recce troops, at least our sqn.  As far as using tracks goes, our troop tried to keep it to a minimum.  The ground was rough going in most areas off the trails.  We can go back and forth forever, but the bottom line is that the AAR process was not used to the max.   Recceguy makes some valid observations regarding the need to work together during the year.


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## Redeye (10 Sep 2004)

Hopefully Brigade level training this year will reflect the need to better integrate these roles.  I'm hoping that we'll get to do more work with the armoured recce so as to make their recce work more useful to dismounted infantry, so at Endex we can all be pleased with the quality of integration of everyone's work, regardless of trade.


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## Gayson (11 Sep 2004)

TR said:
			
		

> We are supossed to do all our recces that way. You've been in what a year? off course for like a month? glad to see you are an expert on armoured recce tactics. Long foot recces are Infantry territory. We are supposed to be more manuverable and be able to be long distances a head of the brigade. 30 km and such. We are considered armoured because we are mounted and fall under the banner of the RCAC not because we are in armoured vehicles, although teh GGHG and 1st Hussars are. The Griffin ride was a treat not a norm. when you've been on more than one exersise and spent some time in the   role of a crewman you'll better understand how we opperate and what our tasks are.
> 
> Do you have your DP2 recce cousre yet? or are you stiil just a qualified iltis driver?



Yes I understand that, also never did I try to make myself to be an expert.  I have only my DP1 and am Iltis qualified.  I will be attending (hopefully) dp2 late october.  I know that the griffin ride was a treat (infact it was the highlight of my summer).  

Some of the things I have been posting here are things that I have learned through the unit that _should_ be on the dp2.  We are mounted, but as i understand it, when doing a recce on say a bridge, we would dismount.  Also members of my unit have told me of many times where they would do dismounted reccies by night during weekend trg.


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## Gayson (11 Sep 2004)

Has anyone heard about some of the specific activities for next years CAC?  I am sure looking forward to it.


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## Redeye (11 Sep 2004)

The main effort is whatever the current euphemism for "Advance to Contact" is - it is all offensive operations and apparently will have no OBUA component (according to our Ops O, who was just at the conference.)


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## PuckChaser (11 Sep 2004)

Yep, from what I've heard its all offensive. Might even get to bring out the toys from my unit.


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## Gayson (11 Sep 2004)

I've been told that CAC is generally the culmitive ex for the training year, so likely most ex's this year should be on the offensive?


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## Jarnhamar (11 Sep 2004)

isn't FIBUA/OBUA/MOUT/FISH offensive operations?

I love running around the woods just as much as the next guy but isn't it safe to assume any operation we do in the future will atleast involve urban settings? I'd think it wise to ALWAYS include atleast some training in urban areas in both the offensive and defensive.


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## Redeye (12 Sep 2004)

It is part of offensive operations, but I suppose te powers-that-be are tired of FIBUA (and I think that a few of the troops at least are as well), and so the plan is calling for more offense over a long trace - I've heard a bit about the plans - culmination is potentially going to be a Battalion deliberate attack, which would be quite a go, I think.


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## Argyll_2347 (13 Sep 2004)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> How did you guys like the FIBUA stuff? My Enemy Force buddies claim the attacks on the FIBUA site were pretty one sided, but I'm curious to hear what it was like from another point of view. Do reservists use simunition often? Any thoughts on the house clearing drills?



We got slaughtered...  There was a minefield and my section commander literally threw me in right on top of the smoke grenade I just threw out...  I was oblivious to the markings of the minefield since my bloody mask fogged up despite all my attempts during the march to the site to keep it fog-free.  If you ever see a photo of around 2 dozen bodies... I'm the one closest to the wire.  I only took a round to the finger all the way up there until I was told that I was dead, then the guys in the building probably had a thrill shooting me up while I was down  :-\

As for Armoured Recce... they weren't even there (yes, they were supposed to be) to guide us into our ORV for the raid.  The raid itself went alright, the Americans had a shock when I emerged through the red smoke with my C7 slung... and my pipes playing Monymusk and Campbells are Coming  ;D  Provided a great morale boost for our lads, that's for sure!

Overall, I didn't think Stalwart '04 lived up to all they hyped it up to be.  Last year was better in my opinion.  Hopefully next will be an improvement...


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## Tpr.Orange (13 Sep 2004)

SG04 in my opinion was alright. I was posted with the 3 CS BN Maintainers forward repair group (FRG) plt as a weapons tech. I got to come out and fix up some of the weapons, except for the one in the water of course which we were told to get until we realized the coordinates were in the middle of the lake. I found that one of the biggest issues for us was that went sent out on a Mobile Repair Team (MRT) nobody in the 32LIB would be able to give an accurate grid that would allow us to find the vehicle or weapon that needed to be repaired. Several calls required us to look around for over an hour, to locate people whos grids were off by 3 or 4 kms. As for parts, they were in short supply but thanks to the 2 GS Bn we were ok for the time being. I Got to fix a Carl G that was hucked onto the beach by the 2fer... the trigger mech snapped off the welds where the dovetails are which was pretty fun. I also managed to get some great OJT in prefire checks, and general servicing of the weapons. Felt good to help out guys from the 32 LIB. We got called out once, and after fixing one weapon a line started to form asking for more help. All in all i think from what ive heard this EX was much much better then last years. IMPs, were better then the hay boxes and all in all i had a great time. There was deffinatley no short supply of work to be done for all of the techs, and it seemed as though everyone we could help was thankful. 

Good ex and hope to see everyone again next year.


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## Spc_Cameron (13 Sep 2004)

SIGH!!!  Beer.. the good ole days... why even to this day I tell tall tales of the beer we had "while in the field " to the young Pte's, fresh out of Benning with that wide eyed deer caught in the headlights look....

I miss Canada...


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## Northern Touch (13 Sep 2004)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> How did you guys like the FIBUA stuff? My Enemy Force buddies claim the attacks on the FIBUA site were pretty one sided, but I'm curious to hear what it was like from another point of view. Do reservists use simunition often? Any thoughts on the house clearing drills?



Haha, Yea, I thoroughly enjoyed getting shot in the head with a nice double tap, although the chalk I was in did get props from the RCR guys (refs and safety guys) for actually showing initative and flanking right instead of heading for the bank.  They told us after we were all nice and dead behind the car that we were the reason our company finally gained entry to the second building.  

Our first run through was a complete slaughter, I got into the bank and just sat around while some platoon comanders argued until they finally stopped the whoel assault since it was such a cluster fuck.  The second time through was much better.  We gained the bank and the second building was back and forth the whole time, although I wasn't in any of the buildings (I was outside the whole time) so I can't say for sure.  I do know that smoke was used MUCH better the second time although I think we still lacked enough grenades or weren't using them properly.  I had a buddy in a certain part of the bank or second building who told me the enemy force would jsut run around the corner, toss a grenade in the building and run off again, and it wasn't until the very end someone finally decided to bord up the window.  This is of coarse after a minimum of 10 grenades or some ridiculous number like that.  If anyone from the 48th is here they could probably tell you better then I could since I believe we attacked with them.

Of coarse, the enemy force did have iron sights, we did not and by the time we got there (friday) they had been there for a week and pretty much new EVERY place to go and kill us.  Great learning experience though.

In the end though, a 4 man RCR chalk ran pretty much through everyone, around our position and then shot up the HQ.   :-\


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## portcullisguy (13 Sep 2004)

Tpr.Orange said:
			
		

> SG04 in my opinion was alright. I was posted with the 3 CS BN Maintainers forward repair group (FRG) plt as a weapons tech. I got to come out and fix up some of the weapons, except for the one in the water of course which we were told to get until we realized the coordinates were in the middle of the lake. ...



Were you on the live-fire blocking op on the Wednesday?  I had to have a wpns tech fix my C6.  I broke the trigger mech (or it just finally gave up the ghost).  I thought it was screwed for good, and I'd be hauling a 30-lb show-piece paper weight for the rest of SG04.  And worse, I had only loosed off about a belt and a half during the live-fire.

But as we were "withdrawing" from our position, the CSM pointed me over to a couple of rather nice lads near an LS who whipped out a brand new C6 trigger mech for me, and duly replaced the crap broken one on my gat.

Good as new!

That made my week and I left with a grin.  Thanks, wpn techs!  I didn't know one trade could make another so gosh darn happy!


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## Jarnhamar (13 Sep 2004)

Theres some really interesting views from all sides of the ex.

Someone mentioned that the higher ups wanna stay away from FIBUA? Reading the posts from the guys who were there it looks like we need to work on FIBUA more than anything else. Everyone needs more practice.  
Stopping in the middle of an assualt to argue then starting over because it's a cluster fuck seems pretty bad to me.


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## devil39 (14 Sep 2004)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Theres some really interesting views from all sides of the ex.
> 
> Someone mentioned that the higher ups wanna stay away from FIBUA? Reading the posts from the guys who were there it looks like we need to work on FIBUA more than anything else. Everyone needs more practice.
> Stopping in the middle of an assualt to argue then starting over because it's a cluster **** seems pretty bad to me.



Chances are they are changing the phases of war to work on for the upcoming year.   Pretty hard to specialize in all phases of war in the Reserves, and FIBUA has been practiced for a couple of years now.   Likely time to build up some experience and expertise in another type of operation.


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## Pikache (14 Sep 2004)

What would help is to standardize FIBUA (aka OBUA aka MOUT aka whatever) drills as some people still practice older drills.

Like every unit sends someone on a FIBUA course (the new NATO one or whatever) and ensure that the new drills get passed down to everyone.


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## Tpr.Orange (14 Sep 2004)

portcullisguy said:
			
		

> Were you on the live-fire blocking op on the Wednesday?   I had to have a wpns tech fix my C6.   I broke the trigger mech (or it just finally gave up the ghost).   I thought it was screwed for good, and I'd be hauling a 30-lb show-piece paper weight for the rest of SG04.   And worse, I had only loosed off about a belt and a half during the live-fire.
> 
> But as we were "withdrawing" from our position, the CSM pointed me over to a couple of rather nice lads near an LS who whipped out a brand new C6 trigger mech for me, and duly replaced the crap broken one on my gat.
> 
> ...



That very well could have been me, but i had so many 6s to work on that it might not have been ...well if i did your welcome and ill pass on the thoughtful comments to my other maintainers. 

Cheers!
anytime!


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## Sharpey (14 Sep 2004)

My oppinions on the raid...

First off, the Company I was to lead to the ORV showed up out of order, meaning the timings were now out to lunch. With terrible comms I had no quick method of contacting the ORV so I had to let it slide. I Recce'd that area the day before and picked the path of least resistance to the ORV that was not chosen by me but, well, I won't go there on here. And as my squadron learned from the day before, those woods in the pitch dark are a hell of a challenge for the maybe 20-30 of us, let alone 150 troops!

Once underway under the cover of the early morning darkness, we slowed down and stopped on many occasions as it seemed many of the maybe 150 troops trudging along behind me veared off the route into la la land. Once at the ORV, I passed the Company onto another Armoured Recce Unit and my task was done. Simply a guide no more, no less.

The results of the raid I am unaware of. I know it was hot and heavy in that ORV location earlier that day as I spent many hours there, even on top of the enemy location. Hopefully it whent well but I saw nothing as I handed the company over and bailed off to the boat home.

Despite a few hiccups, I felt it whent very well. The boys workign with me did the best they could under the "circumstances" and got the job assigned to us done.

So overall, I think SG was more valuble than last years wasted vacation


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## Fusaki (14 Sep 2004)

> What would help is to standardize FIBUA (aka OBUA aka MOUT aka whatever) drills as some people still practice older drills.



In my opinion, that would be a waste of effort. While section and platoon drills should be practiced and practiced and practiced, standardizing the drills throughout the army can stifle initiative and creativity: the fundementals of FIBUA even at the pte/cpl level. Every time I'm out at the FIBUA site an NCO comes along and says "This is the way the Brits do it" or "This is the way the JTF does it". Then he'll say "But this is the way we're going to do it." The fact of the matter is, there is no "right" way. FIBUA isn't a sicence, its an art. So much of it is a judgement call, simply because you're fighting in 3D in an environment that may go from hostile to passive and back again in seconds. Each one is different. This kind of stuff should be left to the section commanders, platoon commanders, and 2ics to decide and they shoud be encouraged to take in as many different ideas as possible.

Tactics need to be in a constant state of development, or else the enemy will be able to adapt to us before we can adapt to him. I think I'm trying to make the same point Capt O'Leary made in his paper on section attacks, but in a different context.


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## Argyll_2347 (15 Sep 2004)

Oh... one thing that wasn't quite right about the OBUA.  I only got to do it once, which was the second time around... there weren't enough Sim. kits to go around and about 2 sections had to stay back and rack out while everyone else got the fun   The first raid was actually a success... the second however we were toasted (our OBJ was to capture the townhouses)


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## leopard11 (30 Oct 2004)

anybody know when the SG site is going to be updated with the 2004 pictures, all i see on that site is the pictures of the 2003 concentration, id be nice to see some of the pictures that were taken this summer, and the videos i saw getting filmed while we were at the different "stands". so if anybody knows where these pictures are or if this has been answered somewhere else, please re-direct me.


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## Jasmine (5 Nov 2004)

: Another typical complaint from a "Toon" who has no idea what the fuck he/she is talking about. Was it because no one was there to hold your hand? Were your feelings hurt because the soldiering was much to hard for you? Maybe in the future you could make an effort to be part of the solution to do your part in making such an endeavor as SG04 a success instead of being part of the problem!


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## 48Highlander (5 Nov 2004)

Jasmine said:
			
		

> : Another typical complaint from a "Toon" who has no idea what the **** he/she is talking about. Was it because no one was there to hold your hand? Were your feelings hurt because the soldiering was much to hard for you? Maybe in the future you could make an effort to be part of the solution to do your part in making such an endeavor as SG04 a success instead of being part of the problem!



In the future you might want to quote the person you're responding to.  As it is, I can't figure out who your post is directed at.  In any event, your post is way off.  I haven't seen or heard a single person complain about lack of hand holding, or the soldiering being too hard.  If anything, people complain that the soldiering is too easy, and that quite often we get treated like children.  I think the main problem this year was lack of flexibility as far as timings and equipment are concerned, which is always a problem when you try to do stand-based training with large numbers of soldiers.


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## GerryCan (22 Nov 2004)

" in our AAR for our first attack that had us at 95 of 140 in the coy as casualties. But we got ours in the second attack, when we just about wiped them out to a man when they fucked up bad and overcommitted to rushing the nice little kill zone we had set up.

Well I was there all week and I thought that for the majority it was a job well done by all, although I don't ever remember you guys ever coming close to 'almost wiping us out', but I'm not going to try and wreck your SG04 story for you.

The funniest thing I seen was on the last day, we just finished our second defensive and it went off well. They gained entry to one building and we crushed them. Afterwards we were told that they were sending in some elite troops from QOR to attack us next. Well they got it worse than anyone the whole week, it was pretty funny. Any training with Sim rounds is good training and I wish we had the chance to do some offensive urban ops more often, but I'll take what I can get.

Oh yeah, someone mentioned cheating. We were wearing MILES gear, so If we were running away, you were probably shooting up your buddy beside you :blotto:


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## foerestedwarrior (23 Nov 2004)

portcullisguy said:
			
		

> I knew about the lost C7, which apparently fell into Chalk Bay, out of the hands of a G&SF soldier.



for any one who did the "rope bridge" crossing, that was really 2 ropes in the water across the river, for us to pull our selves across one, you will remember that they didnt allow you to put your slings around any part of your body for "safety Issues", so one of our guys dropped it, if you REALLY want to know who it was, there will be enough people around 32LIB that know who it was, trust me, if you havnt heard of him, you have just finished basic, or arnt in 32CBG 

oh and the busted up CarlG(triger mech snaped off), the girl that whent to get it out of the canoe, had my nuke bag with 600 rnd of c6 in it, throwen at her, and it almost knocked her over, then they canoers threw the 84 out of the canoe onto the rocks. well, atleast you got some invaluable experiance.


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## Northern Touch (2 Dec 2004)

GerryCan said:
			
		

> Well I was there all week and I thought that for the majority it was a job well done by all, although I don't ever remember you guys ever coming close to 'almost wiping us out', but I'm not going to try and wreck your SG04 story for you.



Well, I sure don't remember doing too well.  I remember getting DEMOLISHED the first time through with a slight but noticable improvement the second time around.  Probably because the first time was just horendous (SP), but it was a lot of fun.


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