# Cold Weather Policy - DND Ceremonial



## bannerman (27 Jan 2009)

The Department of National Defence set a "threshold of [outdoor] participation" last week, effectively doing away with ceremony when it's below -10C. - Globe and Mail, January 27, 2009

"The primary reason for setting this threshold is we are simply not equipped with ceremonial dress for extreme cold weather," one official said.

This strikes me as a lie, plain and simple. Ceremonial Guards outside in cold weather have worn greatcoats (and capes) since the Crimean War.

How was the new flag raised, with much pomp and ceremony, in February 1965, in the presence of an elderly Governor General Vanier, if not with a Guard of Honour (like everybody else on Parliament Hill) in greatcoats?

Unless someone has evidence to the contrary, this is simply a case of the DND anti-tradition brigade up to its usual mendacious (i.e. dishonest) work.


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## PMedMoe (27 Jan 2009)

If you're going to make comments, a link would have been nice.

Article Link

Veteran Liberal strategist Jerry Yanover believes there may have been a few times when Parliament was called back so suddenly that the pomp and circumstance was dispensed with, citing the fall of 1939 as a possible case.

"We weren't exactly mobilized in '39," he said.

Mr. Yanover doesn't think it is "a big thing" that there was no honour guard yesterday.

"I think it was humane," he says.

It was a sentiment echoed at the legion. "The poor little guy that's pulling the lanyard on the gun will probably be there 40-45 minutes before, and he's bloody cold, okay?" Mr. Butt said. "So, the bottom line is let tradition be tradition, but let common sense rule."

More on link

Must have been a slow news day.   :


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## the 48th regulator (27 Jan 2009)

Well,

I was in Ottawa, and it was freaking cold!

Yes, I am a City boy, but it was the coldest I have ever experienced.  I walked to the CMC from my hotel in Downtown Ottawa (Steps fromt he War Monument) and My eyelashes had icicles!

dileas

tess


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## Michael OLeary (27 Jan 2009)

bannerman said:
			
		

> Unless someone has evidence to the contrary, this is simply a case of the DND anti-tradition brigade up to its usual mendacious (i.e. dishonest) work.




Ah ... _the DND anti-tradition brigade_ ... those bastards.  Yup, nothing should ever change because if we've ever done anything more than twice, it's a tradition and should be set in permafrost.


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## PMedMoe (27 Jan 2009)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> should be set in permafrost.



As would some personnel be had they paraded (in DEU, no topcoat, no toque and no gloves) on Monday morning.


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## dapaterson (27 Jan 2009)

Are we allowed to provide a list of names we'd like to see stuck outside when it's -35 in the wind?

(Present company excluded, of course...)


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## Haggis (27 Jan 2009)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I was in Ottawa, and it was freaking cold!



Yesterday morning I walked from PT at the YMCA gym on Argyle to my office on Queen and my wet towel and T shirt froze in my gym bag.  Cold?  YES!!


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## Neill McKay (27 Jan 2009)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Ah ... _the DND anti-tradition brigade_ ... those bastards.  Yup, nothing should ever change because if we've ever done anything more than twice, it's a tradition and should be set in permafrost.



However, we've opened Parliament quite a few more times than twice.  Surely that's a tradition by any definition?


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## Michael OLeary (27 Jan 2009)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> However, we've opened Parliament quite a few more times than twice.  Surely that's a tradition by any definition?



So, after doing something how many times are we then never allowed to change it?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 Jan 2009)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> However, we've opened Parliament quite a few more times than twice.  Surely that's a tradition by any definition?



I've scratched my hemorrhoids more than a few times....................please don't tell me its now a tradition and I am thus forever bound.


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## brihard (27 Jan 2009)




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## chris_log (27 Jan 2009)

bannerman said:
			
		

> The Department of National Defence set a "threshold of [outdoor] participation" last week, effectively doing away with ceremony when it's below -10C. - Globe and Mail, January 27, 2009
> 
> "The primary reason for setting this threshold is we are simply not equipped with ceremonial dress for extreme cold weather," one official said.
> 
> ...



One quick comment;

I'm assuming the original poster has never done any ceremonial duty outside during the winter. Because it sucks, big time, and there is no ceremonial wear that even remotely protects from the cold (not to mention issues like how cold affects musical instruments).


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## PMedMoe (27 Jan 2009)

Name:  bannerman 
Posts:  19 (0.060 per day) 
Position:  Guest 
Date Registered:  March 18, 2008, 11:13:31 
Last Active:  Today at 09:20:00 

It was a post and run.  Could I suggest changing the "r" in this person's user name to a "d" ?  

Not to mention, this is NOT official DND policy.


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Jan 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> One quick comment;
> 
> I'm assuming the original poster has never done any ceremonial duty outside during the winter. Because it sucks, big time, and there is no ceremonial wear that even remotely protects from the cold  (not to mention issues like how cold affects musical instruments).


Bring back the greatcoat and fur hat we had with our CFs. :blotto:


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## dapaterson (27 Jan 2009)

Nah.  Let's see the ceremonial guard in bib overalls and parkas.


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## Nfld Sapper (27 Jan 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Nah.  Let's see the ceremonial guard in bib overalls and parkas.



in CADPAT

 >


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## ltmaverick25 (28 Jan 2009)

To the OP, I fail to see the need to force some guys to freeze their balls off just so a few dignitaries can have a ceremony they probably dont pay any attention to or give two shits about.


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## Redeye (28 Jan 2009)

It's prudence and common sense.  I attended the repatriation ceremony for WO Wilson, Cpl McLaren, and Pte Diplaros at Trenton and it was unbelievably cold.  The pipes couldn't play because it was too cold, and people were getting frostbite already.  The CDS ordered the ceremony shortened, by having everyone march off once the families left the apron, rather than waiting for the cortege to leave.  I don't see an issue with that really.  The Honour Guard were having a pretty tough go of it.


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## stealthylizard (30 Jan 2009)

Meanwhile, last week -20 (without windchill) in Edmonton, and a 10 km run.   ???


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## aesop081 (30 Jan 2009)

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> Meanwhile, last week -20 (without windchill) in Edmonton, and a 10 km run.   ???



Down to the end of the old runway and back ........in a wicked cross-wind ?

Those were the days.........


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## stealthylizard (30 Jan 2009)

Don't use the runway very often anymore, but still crosswind across highway by the open field and walkway across from MP gate/shack


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## a78jumper (31 Jan 2009)

As  an ex QM of the Guards, those greatcoats are heavy and presumeably warm. However have you ever heard a band, especially brass , play in cold weather? Not pleasant. 

Having stood outside on the Parade Square at RMC a number of mornings when it was well into the -20Cs still air temp ( and the wind always blows in Kingston it seems), let me state it was damn cold, even with a greatcoat, and shetland lamb hats and gloves. I guess these are kindler gentler days, less that nasty old war in Afghanistan, for the CF as a whole.


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## stealthylizard (31 Jan 2009)

Maybe global warming really is occuring.  Here we are complaining about - 20 being cold, when it used to be the average winter temperature.  Jackets and gloves would come off when it warmed up to -15.  It wasn't really cold until it dipped into the -40 range.


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## a78jumper (31 Jan 2009)

I still remember being a guard commander of a group of service battalion tradespeople who were sent to the Legion in Pet 11 Nov 84. The Guard WO was a POS whiny Air Force electronics  whiz kid. Forecast was +2c andlight snow flurries so I told the troops to wear their long undies as we likely would NOT be wearing raincoats on top of CF Greens, which looked stupid with bloused SSF boots. Besides all those old vets (and there were a lot from WW2) wear standin out in their legion jackets, medals etc, not a coat to be seen. It was not cold, and the snow was light big fluffy flakes. Next morning the RSM ( a miserable SOB who couldn't udder two words without one of them being **** or ****) was on my case as to why I went without raincoats as WO C ( I still remember his name 26 yrs later) had complained. What a bunch of whimps, 80 year old men standing out there and a bunch of twenty something supposed SSF soldiers could not do the same thing.


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## bannerman (2 Feb 2009)

Perhaps they could strike a brand new medal for service in uncomfortable weather.


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## chris_log (2 Feb 2009)

a78jumper said:
			
		

> As  an ex QM of the Guards, those greatcoats are heavy and presumeably warm. However have you ever heard a band, especially brass , play in cold weather? Not pleasant.
> 
> Having stood outside on the Parade Square at RMC a number of mornings when it was well into the -20Cs still air temp ( and the wind always blows in Kingston it seems), let me state it was damn cold, even with a greatcoat, and shetland lamb hats and gloves. I guess these are kindler gentler days, less that nasty old war in Afghanistan, for the CF as a whole.



Even worse, bagpipes. I remember one Nov 11th (when the weather was around 5 degrees or so and raining) and after not being played for roughly 15 minutes the sound they made (assuming they made any sound at all) when we started playing was, quite literally, like cats screaming. Although it was toasty warm under kilts and the wool piper's tunics. 

I stand by my thoughts, bannerman's sarcasm aside, few people are going to go out to watch a ceremony in minus 20 degree weather. Why bother sending a bunch of troops out too? We get lots of crowds out to watch the CG in the summer, I doubt we'd get 10 people willing to stand out and watch the same ceremony during an Ottawa winter.


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## bannerman (2 Feb 2009)

Isn't the band thing a bit of a red herring? Does inspecting the guard of honour require a band or pipes? Seems to me it has more to do with a slacker GG and a lazy DND.


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## Nfld Sapper (2 Feb 2009)

bannerman said:
			
		

> Isn't the band thing a bit of a red herring? Does inspecting the guard of honour require a band or pipes? Seems to me it has more to do with a slacker GG and a lazy DND.



 :

and your background in this subject?


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## armyvern (2 Feb 2009)

bannerman said:
			
		

> Isn't the band thing a bit of a red herring? Does inspecting the guard of honour require a band or pipes? Seems to me it has more to do with a slacker GG and a lazy DND.



All that being just your opinion of course.

One which, by the way, I don't happen to be in agreement with you on.


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## Panzer Grenadier (2 Feb 2009)

If you wear a thermal top underneath your greatcoat, you can be quite comfortable. As I have done a few ceremonial taskings at Rideau Hall out in the cold/wind etc.  a thermal top under a greatcoat works.


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## chris_log (2 Feb 2009)

bannerman said:
			
		

> Isn't the band thing a bit of a red herring? Does inspecting the guard of honour require a band or pipes? Seems to me it has more to do with a slacker GG and a lazy DND.



Actually, military music plays a major role in many ceremonial activities. Look at the size of the bloody CG band during the summer, as an example. Very often you'll have a band (brass and reed or pipes and drums) or a lone piper for an honour guard inspection, repat, etc. 

Come to mention it, what IS your background in all this? I haven't met many troops (outside of the band geeks like I used to be) that enjoy parading around, and even then, standing at attention for what seems like forever to wait for some dignitary to give you a passing glance is about as fun as a hernia. As much as I can recall, being tasked to an honour guard is a task sought after as much as a swift kick in the nuts.


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## ffhammer (3 Feb 2009)

November 11/ 1985 my Pipe Band was playing at the local cenotaph. -23 with 50km winds. Me in a kilt, glengarry, and no gloves (obviously).
So cold, in fact, that we had to replace 2 leather bags due to freezing and cracking.
Why did we stand out there playing in that weather? So that 24 years later, I'd have a great cold weather story!


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## Nfld Sapper (3 Feb 2009)

ffhammer said:
			
		

> November 11/ 1985 my Pipe Band was playing at the local cenotaph. -23 with 50km winds. Me in a kilt, glengarry, and no gloves (obviously).
> So cold, in fact, that we had to replace 2 leather bags due to freezing and cracking.
> Why did we stand out there playing in that weather? So that 24 years later, I'd have a great cold weather story!



Think over your post again.


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Feb 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> All that being just your opinion of course.
> 
> One which, by the way, I don't happen to be in agreement with you on.



Don't feed the troll Vern.


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## Nfld Sapper (3 Feb 2009)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Don't feed the troll Vern.



And you can use my (patent pending) can of:







 ;D


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## chris_log (3 Feb 2009)

ffhammer said:
			
		

> November 11/ 1985 my Pipe Band was playing at the local cenotaph. -23 with 50km winds. Me in a kilt, glengarry, and no gloves (obviously).
> So cold, in fact, that we had to replace 2 leather bags due to freezing and cracking.
> Why did we stand out there playing in that weather? So that 24 years later, I'd have a great cold weather story!



Were you playing continuously or were the pipes not played for any period of time? Because I can tell you that after even a few minutes in the cold the reeds would freeze up from the moisture and would sound like the pipes from hell, if they made any noise at all. 

And where on earth were you when it was -23 in November? Baffin Island?


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## bannerman (3 Feb 2009)

troll? oh, I geddit. If I disagree with DND policy, I am not entitled to an opinion.


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## George Wallace (3 Feb 2009)

bannerman said:
			
		

> troll? oh, I geddit. If I disagree with DND policy, I am not entitled to an opinion.



Just out of curiosity, are you at all familiar with DND policy?  Do you actually understand how these decisions are made, when they are made, and how they are carried out?


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## geo (3 Feb 2009)

bannerman,
You can dissagree with DND policy all you want.  A lot of here do not agree with official policy.  This forum is not DND and we often vent our spleen 

If you put out a well thought out post, there won't be a problem and you won't be considered a troll...

Obviously, some have had issues with the nature & direction of your posts.


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## ffhammer (3 Feb 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> Were you playing continuously or were the pipes not played for any period of time? Because I can tell you that after even a few minutes in the cold the reeds would freeze up from the moisture and would sound like the pipes from hell, if they made any noise at all.
> 
> And where on earth were you when it was -23 in November? Baffin Island?


We played to the Cenotaph and then stood. When it was time to leave, we marched with pipes down, since, as you asid, nothing was working. Younger members rode back to the Legion in cars, while we die hards marched.
And it was in Sudbury. Just one of those early winter cold snaps that come along once in a while.


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## ffhammer (3 Feb 2009)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Think over your post again.



I know, I know. But Pipers are really the only ones who can say that they froze their bag off and really mean it.


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## OldSolduer (3 Feb 2009)

Is this official DND Policy from on high?


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## PMedMoe (3 Feb 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Is this official DND Policy from on high?



I have my doubts.  The newpaper article states DND set a "threshold of [outdoor] participation" (quotes theirs).  Preventive Medicine has no definitive rules regarding cold weather, it is an administrative/leadership thing.  Much like the work/rest cycle for heat, everything is only a _recommendation_.  My office received a couple of phone calls regarding this situation and the only references we used were the safety manuals and other material regarding wind chill.  IIRC, the members on parade were to be only in DEU, no overcoat, no toques and no gloves.


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## OldSolduer (3 Feb 2009)

Well, having seen this post reminds me of a story. :warstory:

Helmets on!!

We used to fall in every morning in Winnipeg on the parade square, not matter what the conditions. Our headdress was berets. ON of our WO's decided his troops should wear toques.
That earned him a scathing reprimand from the CSM, who stated that the dress was berets, and the RSM was the one that set dress policy, not a Platoon 2I/C.

The WO argued his point, tactfully. By the end of the day common sense had come back and the troops were allowed to wear toques in the winter.

What is needed is a common sense policy and leaders with common sense.
The old fur hat and greatcoat are a start, IF troops are to parade in DEU in the winter.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (3 Feb 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> toques in the winter



Well at least we now know where anarchy started.....................


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## PMedMoe (3 Feb 2009)

:warstory:

Going along with OldSolduer, just recently (early 2007) in Borden, a Capt marched his troops from CFMSS to the shacks.  It was very cold (below -20) with a wind chill as well.  Since one of the troops had forgotten their toque, (which I doubt as she used to claim she was allergic to wool and wouldn't wear it), he marched everyone in berets.  Some of the troops got frostbite on their ears and the Capt was charged.  Which goes back to it being leadership and common sense.

Edit to add:  This wasn't one of my courses.  It was a Med Tech QL3 course when I was on my 6A.


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## OldSolduer (3 Feb 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> :warstory:
> 
> Going along with OldSolduer, just recently (early 2007) in Borden, a Capt marched his troops from CFMSS to the shacks.  It was very cold (below -20) with a wind chill as well.  Since one of the troops had forgotten their toque, (which I doubt as she used to claim she was allergic to wool and wouldn't wear it), he marched everyone in berets.  Some of the troops got frostbite on their ears and the Capt was charged.  Which goes back to it being leadership and common sense.
> 
> Edit to add:  This wasn't one of my courses.  It was a Med Tech QL3 course when I was on my 6A.



thanks Moe.
Question:

1. Why was a Captain marching troops? That is a job for a MCpl/Sgt or a Cpl, not a Captain.

2. Did the said troop have a med chit allowing her to wear an alternative headdress? ie civilian fleece toque.


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## PMedMoe (3 Feb 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> thanks Moe.
> Question:
> 
> 1. Why was a Captain marching troops? That is a job for a MCpl/Sgt or a Cpl, not a Captain.
> ...



1.  I have no idea, maybe he was already in trouble?

2.  Not that I know of.  I always wanted to tell her that her beret was wool, as was her DEUs.


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## armyvern (3 Feb 2009)

There's lots of people out there these days with medical chits for "wool allergy" - we get to buy them special stuff to wear.

I especially liked the number of females who would mysteriously show up with medical chits all of a sudden reading "polyester allergy" ... when they became pregnant, thus avoiding having to wear that montrousity of maternity uniform made by Omar the Tent Maker.


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## PMedMoe (3 Feb 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I especially liked the number of females who would mysteriously show up with medical chits all of a sudden reading "polyester allergy" ... when they became pregnant, thus avoiding having to wear that montrousity of maternity uniform made by Omar the Tent Maker.



So thankful the clerk at Clothing told me I wasn't entitled to it as I was a reservist.  I got to wear civvies!


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## 1feral1 (3 Feb 2009)

Ha!

I am suprised that as part time CF Mbr, there is no maternity clothing entitlement for pregnant Mbrs.

Seems foolish?


Wes


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## armyvern (3 Feb 2009)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Ha!
> 
> I am suprised that as part time CF Mbr, there is no maternity clothing entitlement for pregnant Mbrs.
> 
> ...



Doesn't seem foolish if they're not on contract; let's not forget that they don't parade anyway. Res on C/B Class are entitled.


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## geo (3 Feb 2009)

Wes,
On the green side of the house, pers wear Combats most of the times... they just get bigger ones for the duration of the pregnancy.  Also possible to use elastic gussets to keep the combats snug without it being too tight.


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## armyvern (3 Feb 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> Wes,
> On the green side of the house, pers wear Combats most of the times... they just get bigger ones for the duration of the pregnancy.  Also possible to use elastic gussets to keep the combats snug without it being too tight.



Some use bigger sizes, some don't.

The ones you see wearing the elastic gussets on the back of their cadpat shirts are actually wearing maternity cadpat (yes - it does exist). Those pants have a nice little polyester tummy inset into them too.

I think Moe is reffering to the gorgeous maternity wear that we used to wear as DEUs/work dress way back when.


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## 1feral1 (3 Feb 2009)

I don't understand why they cannot be employed.

So if one is Cl A, and is pregnant, they are not allowed to work after X weeks?

Example:  a clerk who cannt enter pay on the computer on a Tuesday night because she is pregnant? And if she was allowed, a military force which will not give her the correct uniform to keep her comfortable.

If I was a pregnant reservist, I think I would feel as was getting the wrong end of the stick, and almost victimised for being pregant.

Cheers,

Wes

EDITed to note of my silly spelling mistakes


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## geo (3 Feb 2009)

Wes... not saying that they can't come in.... the do... quite often almost till term.
Like I said - they just wear combats -  we don,t wear DEUs all that often anyway


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## PMedMoe (3 Feb 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I think Moe is referring to the gorgeous maternity wear that we used to wear as DEUs/work dress way back when.



Yeppers.  As far as I know, I was entitled to it but the clerk didn't like reservists.  Didn't bother me.



			
				Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> I don't understand why they cannot be employed.



To clear things up, I was an Air reservist (ARAF).  I was working class A, 10 days a month at CFB Gander (at the time).  No parading on weeknights and weekends for me, thanks.

The only thing I found stupid was that I was not allowed to work into the month I was due.  ???  I was due Jun 25th (I think) and was not allowed to work in June at all.  Since I didn't give birth until the 17th, I could have worked my 10 days that month.

For what it's worth, I stopped work at the end of May, gave birth in June and went back to work after the long weekend in Aug and fit into my work dress, which is a lot less forgiving than combats!  ;D


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## armyvern (3 Feb 2009)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> I don't understand why they cannto be employed.
> 
> So if one is Cl A, and is pregant, they are not allowed to work after X weeks?
> 
> ...



Wes,

They can be employed. I meant "parade" in the truest "parade" (with marching/forming up et al) sense of the word. On A Class, they may show up on night - they may not. Why pay out the expense to kit them out in maternity uniforms (they get more than one) when they may/may not show up to 'work'? After finding out they're pregnant - perhaps around 8 weeks - that leaves approx 32 nights of wearing it for 2-3 hours (if they show every single night). 

Is it worth the expense when most women are much more comfortable wearing honest-to-goodness maternity clothing anyway? They aren't supposed to be working any weekends etc as their chits read "regular work, meals, sleeping hours".

Believe you me --- most of them were *very* thankful of that rule.


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## mariomike (3 Feb 2009)

Piper said:
			
		

> being tasked to an honour guard is a task sought after as much as a swift kick in the nuts.



I am a proud member our Departmental HG. I've been with the company a long time, but had to "audition" just like anyone else.  
We form up at the Coroner's Office. 
No matter how cold and dark it is, the soldiers always come out and shake our hands.  
We attended a reception at the CF college in Armour Heights last summer.


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## Kat Stevens (3 Feb 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> Well, having seen this post reminds me of a story. :warstory:
> 
> Helmets on!!
> 
> ...





Sounds like Max "the axe"


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## OldSolduer (3 Feb 2009)

Max the Axe? Are you familiar with that gentleman?

It wasn't him. 
I see this thread has taken several tangents, from winter DEUs to pregnancy & dress and now to Max. :warstory:


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## PMedMoe (3 Feb 2009)

OldSolduer said:
			
		

> I see this thread has taken several tangents, from winter DEUs to pregnancy & dress and now to Max. :warstory:



Time for a split, a lock or a move to Radio Chatter.


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## geo (3 Feb 2009)

Err... why ???
we've wavered a little bit but, all in all, have kept true to discussing unit activities during cold weather.

Still a lot of cold weather stories out there waiting to get out....


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## 1feral1 (3 Feb 2009)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Wes,
> 
> They can be employed. I meant "parade" in the truest "parade" (with marching/forming up et al) sense of the word. On A Class, they may show up on night - they may not. Why pay out the expense to kit them out in maternity uniforms (they get more than one) when they may/may not show up to 'work'? After finding out they're pregnant - perhaps around 8 weeks - that leaves approx 32 nights of wearing it for 2-3 hours (if they show every single night).
> 
> ...



Seen.

At least there is CADPAT preggo outfits  ;D

Cheers,

Wes


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## stealthylizard (4 Feb 2009)

Waiting for someone to slip on the ice and seriously hurt themselves.  Fell twice on an easy tac/flak vest march.


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## geo (4 Feb 2009)

.... still recovering from knee injury I got in Nov 2007 !!!

Lousy WWBs - even the "new" soles aren't worth a piece of $hit !


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## Nfld Sapper (4 Feb 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> .... still recovering from knee injury I got in Nov 2007 !!!
> 
> Lousy WWBs - even the "new" soles aren't worth a piece of $hit !



From Tease Clothe the Soldier:



> How is CTS addressing the slipperiness of the WWB sole?
> 
> Clothe the Soldier (CTS) discussed cold weather wear problems associated with the Wet Weather Boot (WWB) VIBRAM® Sierra 1276M sole in The Maple Leaf, Vol. 5 No. 45 (4 December 2002). CF personnel had reported that the WWB's "high wear" material sole did not provide adequate grip on ice and snow below -10°C.
> 
> ...



and 



> Resoling
> 
> Wet Weather Boot Resoling
> 
> ...


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## geo (4 Feb 2009)

Heh... wear mucklucks to the office & Area HQ ? Yeah - right !

Does that mean I get to wear tent slippers inside the HQ bldg when I pop into the area commander's office with documents he has to sign ?


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## dapaterson (4 Feb 2009)

Now if only there were mukluks in the system... but they're a restricted piece of kit, which makes conducting winter training somewhat problematic, when soldiers aren't issued the kit they need.


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## Nfld Sapper (4 Feb 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Now if only there were *mukluks* in the system... but they're *a restricted piece of kit*, which makes conducting winter training somewhat problematic, when soldiers aren't issued the kit they need.



You have got to be shitting me dapaterson.


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## dangerboy (4 Feb 2009)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Now if only there were mukluks in the system... but they're a restricted piece of kit, which makes conducting winter training somewhat problematic, when soldiers aren't issued the kit they need.


Out of curiosity who or what are mukluks restricted to? I could not imagine trying to train soldiers out here in Wainwright without them having mukluks.


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## geo (4 Feb 2009)

Sapper... I have it on good authority that DAP would never kid a sapper (at least not on such a subject)


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## Nfld Sapper (4 Feb 2009)

geo said:
			
		

> Sapper... I have it on good authority that DAP would never kid a sapper (at least not on such a subject)



I know geo but still seems a tad bit strange


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## dapaterson (5 Feb 2009)

There are at last count 93 different items restricted due to shortages in the system.  Mukluks among them.  And I've given up hoping that someday men's large underwear will be available...


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## geo (5 Feb 2009)

HA!!
Went thru Longue Pointe QM this morning.... They have Large !!!
So I've got fresh underwear for the next little while


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## George Wallace (5 Feb 2009)

Good news.

What was the reason for the six to eight months without there being any in the Supply System?


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## geo (6 Feb 2009)

dunno - never knew - didn't ask


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