# Canadian army TO&Es



## thomastmcc (4 Feb 2005)

hello all am a new member from the war-forums group where I was told that to come here for help about the canadian organisation or TO&Es (tables of organisaton and equipment) ,I emailed mike the owner of the group here and he suggested that I post my request to anyone who can help ,what I am Looking for is the TO&Es for infantry,mechanised infantry ,armour etc from section or squad level to platoon and company level ,detailing how many men,weapons etc in each section,platoon etc for infantry and armour , this is for I own the yahoo group for WW2 and Modern TOandEs ,but also I recently got some canadian infantry from liberation minatures in 20mm scale so I want to wargame them in 1.1 scale ,any help would be appreciated thanks .

Thomas


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## Michael OLeary (4 Feb 2005)

Start with this thread:

Platoons, Brigades, Divisions Oh My! How the Army & the CF are structured.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/24284.0.html

Then review the thread topics under "Combat Arms" and "Infantry" to look for related topics. Once you have done that, feel free to ask specific questions to refine the information you have compiled.

Welcome to Army.ca.


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## McG (6 Feb 2005)

Also try these:

What does a Tank Squadron or Rifle Company look like? - http://army.ca/forums/threads/17666.0.html

Engineering Regiment Breakdown  -  http://army.ca/forums/threads/22585.0.html


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## Michael Dorosh (6 Feb 2005)

Hey Thomas - while your research continues, you may want to use "War Establishment" for a search term, as I believe that is the designation we used, at least in WW II, for "TO&E" which used to be an American term.

Good luck with your research - I believe there are some Canadian Armoured sites that have additional info - search for "Barry Beldam" who has done some pictorgraphic representations of battalion and regimental organization that are very good, both WW II and modern.


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## thomastmcc (6 Feb 2005)

Thanks for all the help guys the liberation minis I have are armed with the FN-FAL or SLR for the 1980`s was any units that done peacekeeping duties say in the 80`s and 90`s would have used those weapons like reserve (TA part time units called up ) or regular units not issued with the new rifles ,M16 type .

Thomas


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## Mauler (9 Feb 2005)

Before I left the CF in 2000, the Army Doctrine folks had produced a CD package called the Electronic Battle Box. According to the Army Electronic Library, this CD is not available on-line and was last produced in 1999. 

This CD contains a fairly dynamic set of notional org charts for 4 Can Div and 20 CMBG as well as some allied organizations.

Although these notional orgs were rather unrealistic (an infantry Bn of 1100) they were edifying.

These may answer some TO & E related questions.

While we are at it, does anyone know what, if anything has replaced this electronic document and can I get a copy.

Cheers.


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## Danjanou (9 Feb 2005)

See Thomas I told you this was a good place to check. 

Try the various links to other sites as well as the search function in addition to those already posted.

To the rest of the forum. I directed Thomas here when he posted some general queries on Cdn Army Org at Armchair General. Glad to see we were able to help him out.


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## thomastmcc (9 Feb 2005)

Hi the WW2 and Modern TO&Es yahoo group is listed below for anyone who wishes to join and help contribute to it ,basically this is so if you are looking for any TO&Es for WW2 and Modern ,(we do have a lot this now and more going on when its possible ) its all in one place saves time searching for hours on the internet and asking on forums ,so if anyone wants to join its below , approval is needed to join ,to prevent spammers etc .

thomas (owner TO&Es group ) 

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/


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## thomastmcc (12 Feb 2005)

Hi thanks for the help guys been looking through the threads and got loads of information from them .

Thomas


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## Mauler (22 Feb 2005)

Does anyone know where I can get a hold of the most recent version of the Electronic Battle Box? I am no longer in the CF so I do not have a direct source. Thanks.


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## thomastmcc (11 Aug 2005)

Mauler said:
			
		

> Does anyone know where I can get a hold of the most recent version of the Electronic Battle Box? I am no longer in the CF so I do not have a direct source. Thanks.



hi mate did you get  a copy of the battle box ? .


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## thomastmcc (11 Aug 2005)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> See Thomas I told you this was a good place to check.
> 
> Try the various links to other sites as well as the search function in addition to those already posted.
> 
> To the rest of the forum. I directed Thomas here when he posted some general queries on Cdn Army Org at Armchair General. Glad to see we were able to help him out.




hi mate how you doing ? .


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## Danjanou (11 Aug 2005)

Thomas try the orbat section of this site

http://www.armouredacorn.com/


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## thomastmcc (11 Aug 2005)

thanks mate i will .

thomas


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## McG (11 Aug 2005)

thomastmcc said:
			
		

> hi mate how you doing ? .


Take this type of traffic to PMs   (This icon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 below the avatar of the person you want to talk with)


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## thomastmcc (15 Aug 2005)

hi just to show you what we have on the group this is a taster of the TO&Es .

thomas 



Canadian Company Level Organisation in the 1990s

Mechanized Company
CHQ: 4 M113
     12 M16
     2 GPMG
    (2 Carl Gustav/Epyrx)

3 Rifle Pltns:
     
      PHQ:  1 M113
            4 M16  

      Weapons Sect: 4 M16
                    1 GPMG
                   (1 Carl Gustav/Epyrx)

      3 Rifle Sect: 1 M113  
                    1 Driver
                    1 Gunner
                    1 CO (M16)
                    2 C-9(SAW)
                    6 M16
                   (upto 10 M72 LAW)


Combat Support Company at battalion level includes:
    7 Lynx, 8 M125A3, 16 M901


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## Acorn (15 Aug 2005)

That looks alot like an older org grafted on some newer stuff. We never used M125s (81mm mortar tracks) and only the battalions in Germany (pre-'94) had 16 TOW tracks. M113's never had dedicated gunners either (and what's a CO in a rifle section - the section commander?)

Finally, on nomeclature, the M16 is the C-7 and the GPMG is the C-6.

There may be other flaws, but those are the obvious ones based on my experience.

Acorn


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## thomastmcc (16 Aug 2005)

hi this is the website where that came from and it is listed on the group where its from ,this is why i want up to date info for the canadian armed forces and past TO&Es that are accurate .

thomas 

http://www-solar.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/~aaron/SOTCW.shtml


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## Michael OLeary (16 Aug 2005)

Try some of these threads as a start point:

Platoons, Brigades, Divisions Oh My! How the Army & the CF are structured. - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24284.0.html

Orginization of Regiments/Battalions, WW2 - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/3180.0.html

Infantry Sections - 1964 to 2004 - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/20878.0.html


Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced


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## McG (16 Aug 2005)

. . . and here: http://army.ca/cgi-bin/album.pl?album=ZMisc/Org


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## thomastmcc (16 Aug 2005)

MCG said:
			
		

> . . . and here: http://army.ca/cgi-bin/album.pl?album=ZMisc/Org



thanks how up to date are the charts ? any ideas .

thomas


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## thomastmcc (4 Sep 2005)

MCG said:
			
		

> . . . and here: http://army.ca/cgi-bin/album.pl?album=ZMisc/Org



the charts anyone know where i can get them and any others ? .

thomas


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## pbi (4 Sep 2005)

Just remember that while these TOEs may be interesting, they no longer reflect the way a Canadian unit will look when it deploys on an operation, whether that be peace support, enforcement or warfighting. All task forces will be tailored to the mission, and the land force element will be part of a JTF configuration.

Come to think of it, paper TOEs have never really reflected the way we have deployed for ops (at least as long as I've been around) and have IMHO generally only served as a guide for what we look like in garrison. There have always been lots of other factors at play.

Cheers.


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## thomastmcc (4 Sep 2005)

yeah i know but the actual strengths are good to know for people like myself who wargame etc ,all you have to do is take a percentage off the actual TO&E for realism ,but we do need to know what they are ,also a lot of people use my TO&Es group for other research like some US military personnel use it for this ,and writers etc .

thomas


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## kosovo (6 Sep 2005)

Ex CF and present day planner/war gamer who was referred to this site by a friend who thought I would find a copy of the electronic battle box here. I see that mauler was also searching ... any joy? Appreciate any help provided...


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## thomastmcc (11 Sep 2005)

kosovo said:
			
		

> Ex CF and present day planner/war gamer who was referred to this site by a friend who thought I would find a copy of the electronic battle box here. I see that mauler was also searching ... any joy? Appreciate any help provided...



hi mate what is it you are looking for ? ,as some of the canadian files i have had them sent to me and on the way .

thomas


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