# Promoting NCM-SEP for Med Tech?



## Braver.Stronger.Smarter. (18 Nov 2009)

Just a quick question. I'm planning on applying as a Med Tech and I was at the recruiting centre a few days ago. The recruiter I talked to there was really pushing the idea of staying in my city and completing an EMT program there rather than joining and going through the training that they provide. 
Also, on forces.ca under the Med Tech fact sheet, they have a special comment, "A fully subsidized college education is available for this trade : Find out more."
Does anyone have any idea why they're promoting getting your training before joining the forces? Is it cheaper for them?


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## ArmyGuy99 (19 Nov 2009)

I don't think it's cheaper, it's just another route into the trade.  More designed to get the guys sitting on the fence who aren't sure about leaving home.  

For example when I did my BMQ/QL3 Training I was gone from my spouse for 12 months, the  3's course is now longer so you are looking at 1.5 to 2 yrs away from home.  But if you do the NCM SEP program, for at least 2 yrs you get to stay home and no one is yelling "kind" words of encouragement to you.

Is there a difference at the end of it between those of us who just went in, and those that did the NCMSEP.  I don't know, it wasn't around when I signed up.  Perhaps there is someone on the site that did it and can comment.

Good luck


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## medicineman (19 Nov 2009)

The other reason is right now there is a freeze on the paramedic training for the anglo med techs due to a strike with BC Ambulance Service, so they can't do their ride along preceptorship.  They might be trying to pre-empt you having to stall out during your training...and then maybe leave afterwards due to frustration.

 :2c:

MM


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## FDO (19 Nov 2009)

What the Recruiter was talking about was probably NCMSEP. It's a program where you are enroled into the CF, go to BMQ (ideally) then go to a local college to get your PCP diploma, then you will go and fill in what training the college doesn't provide. Sometimes because of course start dates you may do your PCP course first then do BMQ.

 What this does for the CF is it provides trained Medics without putting a lot of pressure on an already strained training system.


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## mariomike (19 Nov 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> go to a local college to get your PCP diploma



Jules quote:
"The recruiter I talked to there was really pushing the idea of staying in my city and completing an EMT program there rather than joining and going through the training that they provide."

JIBC is a PCP Certificate Program only. No Diploma. At JIBC, only their ACP Program offers a Diploma. 
In Ontario, PCP is a Diploma Program.  There is also a Paramedic Degree Program at University of Toronto.
Licensure of paramedics is the responsibility and domain of the various provincial regulatory bodies. Much depends on the province in which the local college is located.

I believe Jules lives in Alberta?  That's another Paramedic jurisdiction. And so, and so on, and ........... 

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ehs/qa/edu_qa.html
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ehs/edu/equiv_qa.html

As far as JIBC goes:
Important Notice:
"As you may be aware, currently there is a labour dispute between the British Columbia Ambulance Service (BCAS) and the Paramedics Union of BC – CUPE 873. The unforeseen length of this dispute is now affecting our paramedic training programs. Job action has resulted in us not being able to place students with preceptors from the BCAS to complete practicum requirements for the Primary Care Paramedic (PCP) and Advanced Care Paramedic (ACP) programs. Until a resolve to the current labour dispute has been reached, all scheduled PCP and ACP classes have been postponed until further notice.
The Justice Institute of British Columbia School of Health Care (JIBC-SOHC) Paramedic programs are very challenging and students are required to be successful in all the components of the program for completion. The unforeseen delay between the classroom and the practicum requirements adds to the difficulty of successful completion. As the JIBC-SOHC is committed to supporting all our students by providing a positive, quality learning experience, we cannot continue to provide paramedic programs at this time knowing that educationally it is not in the best interest of our students.
While we are not currently accepting new applications for upcoming PCP and ACP programs, if you are interested in these programs, please click here to add your name to a list to receive further updates.
If you are waiting to either apply for the program or have been accepted and are waiting for your program to begin and want to stay ahead of the curve with your training, please click here for some tips and training suggestions."
http://www.jibc.ca/paramedic/programs/pcp/docs/ExpressionofInterestPCP_ACP.pdf


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## FDO (20 Nov 2009)

One of the points we use to sell NCMSEP is they get to stay home and study before going away. After being in the Recruiting Centre for over 2 years I have come to notice that what an applicant is told and what they hear are two different things. 

My guess is, because I've used this before, is "Go to school. Get a Diploma/Degree and live at home for 1/2/3/4 years THEN you'll go and complete your military training" From that I have heard more times that these applicants are going to get an education then join the CF. I believe this stems from not understanding what SEP is all about and that's our fault for not making sure they know exactly what's going on before they walk away. 

I'm not sure why a strike in BC is affecting the PCP or EMT programs in other Provinces. In Ontario as far as I know Seneca does not send it's students to BC for any kind of training. The CF might, As far as NCMSEP Med Tech is concerned the BC strike is NOT why we have the program.


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## medicineman (20 Nov 2009)

FDO said:
			
		

> I'm not sure why a strike in BC is affecting the PCP or EMT programs in other Provinces. In Ontario as far as I know Seneca does not send it's students to BC for any kind of training. The CF might, As far as NCMSEP Med Tech is concerned the BC strike is NOT why we have the program.



The strike in BC affects Med Techs in the training system waiting to get their PCP training completed, as that's where it's done if you're trained through the CF (or Ahuntsic College in Montreal if you're francophone).  I was unaware that we were going the SEP route with Med Techs - if that's the case, great and about time and I stand corrected.

Cheers.  

MM


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## FDO (20 Nov 2009)

You would think that if there are PCP programs in Ontario the Medics would go there instead of flying them out west.

I think, in my own opinion, that we are turning more and more to civilian colleges/ universities to give the bulk of our trades training. Every Senior Officer right now is saying that because of recruiting we have a manning issue in the CF. Well it's not really the case. I had this out with CMS CPO1 and CMP CWO while I was on my ILQ this year. Both stood up and said because of "Recruiting Failures" the CF was in the trouble it's in. When actually what we have is an instruction issue. We don't have the Infrastructure to train the new guys. Currently there are about 600 PATs in Borden alone. That means that we are now 600 short in those occupations. The issue is no way to train them to put them to work. They get ticked and VR because picking up cigarette butts and cleaning the Parade Square is not what they joined for. Some do their entire VIE and never get anything more that BMQ. I'd be ticked!!

So if we can use civilian colleges/universities it actually serves a dual purpose. One we get well trained members and two the members now have a civilian qual that they can take when they get out and work on the outside. It's a win/win situation. Now we just need to get senior people to to figure out how we are going to train the PATs that don't have an occupation that's covered by SEP.


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## medicineman (20 Nov 2009)

The contract the CFHS has is with JIBC Paramedic Academy and has been since the PCP training started - I think it falls into the "if it makes sense we do the opposite" file.  Also, my guess is because it's a college diploma program of 2 years in Ontario, and nobody else would do an accelerated program to accomodate training system needs, JIBC got it.

As for keeping PAT's amused, there are lots of courses they should do that would make them functional upon posting to a unit - all your driver wheeled, comms, etc can be done, not to mention a whole load of OJT opportunities if people would use even a small amount of imagination and initative (and unfortunately, money).  If nothing else, there is ALWAYS administrative functions that people can do in orderly rooms.  Though that seems like drudgery, it will give a bit of empathy to what the clerks do, take a bit of load off them and help the newbies learn a bit about admin for later on in their careers.  I would have rather done that than rebuilding the flower beds outside of CFMSS...

 MM


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## RandyL (20 Nov 2009)

Hello folks, I've got a couple questions that maybe you can help me with. I start basic training in January till the middle of April. I was told about the subsidized offer for medical technicians, but I was offered a position and nothing more was said about it. I was told that if I get accepted into the paramedic program in Algonquin college in Ottawa that I would qualify. Would you guys happen to know if I would still qualify even though I was offered a position already? I contacted the registrars office at the college and they will start selecting people in May.  Also would anyone know the training dates for med tech training through the CF for next year? I've recently learned about the wait times in PRETC and needless to say I'm not to thrilled about hanging out somewhere for a few months watching T.V , playing Xbox, or participating in and "make work" programs. If they have legitimate training courses like driver training and what not like you have mentioned, then that would be fine. I have this vision though of being stuck in some building twiddling my thumbs for a few months. Funny how not once during the recruiting process has anyone mention this PRETC and the possibility of sitting and waiting for who knows how long.  Other people have mentioned that at least you get paid to sit and wait, but thats no good for me though. I'm presently self employed and keep busy and active. I just can't see myself sitting some where with nothing to do. Thanks for any help that you can offer.


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## mariomike (20 Nov 2009)

medicineman said:
			
		

> my guess is because it's a college diploma program of 2 years in Ontario, and nobody else would do an accelerated program to accomodate training system needs, JIBC got it.



Today I called Humber College in Toronto, Ontario because that's where I was sent. It was confirmed to me that every year they have 2,500 applicants for the Paramedic Diploma Program, but only 70 positions, with no guarantee of a job.
Regarding Seneca College. It was mentioned in Reply #5. Not sure why? Seneca does not offer a Paramedic Program.

FDO quote:
"So if we can use civilian colleges/universities it actually serves a dual purpose. One we get well trained members and two the members now have a civilian qual that they can take when they get out and work on the outside."

JIBC only offers a Certificate Program. If they wish to work in Ontario after CF release they will first have to upgrade to Diploma. I only mention Ontario because it is the jurisdiction I am familiar with. There may be other provinces that require a Diploma.  At our most recent Graduation Parade ( I still attend them ), 26 of the 50 grads had the Degree in Paramedicine. All had the mandatory Diploma. 
The JIBC Certificate will entitle recipients to apply to BCAS, but from what I read in the papers, would anyone want to?
I think it is a _good thing_ for people who intend one day to work for a provincial or municipal ambulance service to study at a College of Paramedicine in the province in which they intend to practice, so as to avoid disappoint.  

"Paramedic Education and Training Programs in Ontario":
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ehs/edu/schools.html


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## FDO (20 Nov 2009)

I used Seneca as an example. It's habit. I use it so applicants understand what I mean by college as oppsed to unversity. Humber is on our list as is Durham to name a couple. In actual fact there 11 colleges in Ontario that run acceptable courses.  If anyone wants the names I can supply them.


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## Braver.Stronger.Smarter. (23 Nov 2009)

Thanks everyone for answering my question. Definitely helps me see why they would suggest that people take that route. 

As mariomike said, I am from Alberta...from Calgary. So if I took the SEP route (I won't be, I'm just curious) would I be getting my EMT or my EMT-P? I guess my question is, do they train to "minimum" standard; then get you in and do the rest of the training later or do they do it all in one shot?


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