# Reserves Term of Service



## gate_guard (25 May 2004)

Here‘s something I‘ve been mulling over. The issue of implementing a type of mandatory service time period for the reserves has been discussed here at length. While part of the draw (for lack of a better word) of joining the militia for some has been the ability to clear out at anytime. Obviously this leads to some discontent with a regiment having paid x amount of dollars to train Pte Bloggins only to have him/her take a hike after a year and BMQ or SQ.

What about those who join a reserve regiment, do their BMQ and maybe an SQ and subsequently submit a component transfer to the regs? I‘ve actually seen about 4 guys from my regiment who haven‘t yet fully completed training, who are either in the process or have been awarded a component transfer. Upon signing up with a reserve regiment, should a compulsory length of service be deemed necessary before allowing a troop to submit a component transfer? Why waste the dollars training a troop only so he can leave for the regs after a year, and redo his BMQ? It‘s one thing to demand that troops remain in a reserve regiment for a certain period before allowing them to leave the CF, and another, in my opinion, to allow a troop to component transfer before he‘s even been in the reserves for a year or two. Perhaps a certain period of service should be necessary before allowing a troop to component 
transfer. I‘ve seen too many troops use the reserves as a testing ground to see if they "like" the army and then move on after BMQ, in my view it‘s a waste of reserve funds and an abuse of the system.

Any thoughts?


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## McG (25 May 2004)

After a year of BMQ/SQ in the reserves, a new Reg Force soldier is less likely to quite before the end of his training.  He is less of a financial risk to the CF.  The maney spent on his reserve training is not lost either.  He will have gained from it, and will walk away at the end of all training as a better soldier.

What I would rather see is budgetary compensation to reserve units that have soldiers CT.  This money would be used to retrain a replacement.


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## stukirkpatrick (25 May 2004)

Having BMQ, SQ and a year in, I would have to say that I am less likely to quit than before that year was up.  From my unit‘s viewpoint, we had several dropouts from my basic course, but the remaining group by this time are all dedicated enough to stay in for the long haul. 

It is a good point that training is wasted when soldiers decide to component transfer and repeat basic training.  But it is difficult to address, unless the DND institutes one standard for the entire military (which would not be good, as it might be a lower standard).


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## Theoat (25 May 2004)

If even a fair amount of reservists go on to CT‘s into Reg. Force, wouldn‘t the Forces be better off putting all recruits (Reserve & Regs) through the same Bmq & Sq course instead of retraining them? I guess if you went this route you could say the same for all courses...


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## McG (25 May 2004)

The course length would be prohibitive to reservists.


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## Brad Sallows (25 May 2004)

McG has the right idea.  It is cheaper for a person to learn he is unsuited for army life in the reserve than the Reg F, and it is a needless hindrance to the individual to require completion of a reserve term of service before entry to the Reg F.

The idea of a top-up of funds to recruit and train the next one has certainly been tossed around before.  Unfortunately it isn‘t as simple as handing a unit a lump of money based on qualifications, since the training is inevitably spread throughout different budget cycles.  At the least, CTs should be separated out from attrition counts.


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## chrisp1j (27 May 2004)

Its also a draw, knowing that you can transfer into the Regs at any time. Its good for people who may find themselves in financial need/whatever and need a quick full time job, to know that they can transfer next week.


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## gate_guard (27 May 2004)

> Originally posted by chrisp1j:
> [qb] Its also a draw, knowing that you can transfer into the Regs at any time. Its good for people who may find themselves in financial need/whatever and need a quick full time job, to know that they can transfer next week. [/qb]


It‘s not that easy, component transfers often take at least 5-6 months if not more. And I‘m not saying it shouldn‘t be a benefit of joining the reserves, only that we should treat the Reserves as more than just a PAT platoon for the Regs. Why bother with all the regimental pride and history if all we are is just a recruiting/holding unit for the regs? Training a new recruit, at least in my regiment, begins long before they ever go on course. I‘ve had nights where I‘ve been in charge of the "new guys" and had to conduct training or lectures in order to prepare them for their BMQ/SQ. After which these BMQ/SQ qualified troops are inserted into the rifle platoons and gain more experience while waiting for their BIQ. Why should we be so willing to train and put the time and effort in while Pte Joe has his component transfer in the whole time?

My point is there should be a balance. Sure, component transfers happen all the time. I‘m just saying we should perhaps demand a few years of service in the Reserves in return for the time, money, and effort spent on training these troops. In the end, the Regs will only benefit by gaining a better trained, more experienced troop.


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## sinblox (28 May 2004)

We‘re all in this together as the Canadian Forces, the reserves and regular force may be two different components at an organization and budget level but we‘re all the same armed forces.

I‘m an army reservist and if I wasn‘t transferring to the regular force I would be staying in the reserves for a long time. And when I‘m out of the regs, I intend to go back. 

I don‘t know how I would do going into the regs fresh rather than as a slightly experienced troop. It would be a lot more daunting for me, I‘ll be able to take advantage of the training a lot more now and the reserves has been a good way to decide whether I‘m acustom to the military life, which I decided I am.

As for the waiting period giving a better trained, more experienced troop, with the little training we get to do in the reserves than a couple months in the regs will make up for the lack of time in the reserves.

We‘re all in this together.


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## Long in the tooth (28 May 2004)

Both McC and Kirkpatrick make good points, but WRT prohibitive training time you should consider the Medic and MP trades.  They are upping the standard to Reg F even if it now takes longer.  As they deal with life and death situations they can no longer afford to be underqualified.
We are one army, and although combat arms training could be modulized, both Reg and Res should have the same standards.
I have just finished five years as RSS fin/admin and the most disatisfying area is the difficulty in transferring between RegF and Res.  Over 40% of the RegF Bn I was in had former Res svc.  It‘s very cost eff and a good determinate of future success.  I would go as far to say that ALL basic training be conducted at LOCAL unit level.  Why waste time and mega resources sending recruits to St Jean to learn how to put on their boots (and then decide they don‘t like the life).  The Regs spend way too much for these bragging rights.
When I transferred to the Regs and my Sgt hasseled me about ‘the mil-itia‘ I‘d tell him how much lighter the militia FNs were and easier to shoot to boot.


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## PPCLI Guy (29 May 2004)

> Originally posted by McG:
> [qb]
> 
> What I would rather see is budgetary compensation to reserve units that have soldiers CT.  This money would be used to retrain a replacement. [/qb]


Reserve units have establishments, and those establishments dictate the budget.  What that means is that essentially units are compensated for soldiers that CT - in strictly monetary terms, as COs are permitted to have "X" soldiers on strength, and get allocated funds accordingly. However, this is not all that effective a way of doing things...


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## McG (30 May 2004)

G3 LFCA,
It is my understanding that the funding model is based on the number of soldiers a unit has (less MMO) and unit role (infantry, engineer, recce, cougar, etc).  If a MCpl were to CT, that unit could not expect the extra money to send one extra Cpl on PLQ that year, nor could the unit hope to see the money to put one more soldier through BMQ/SQ/MOC.

I remember units also being assigned recruiting ceilings each year.  Having that ceiling raised by one for every CT would also help a unit out.


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## PnkrWeb (30 May 2004)

well actualy im in my SQ soldier qualification     i starte dthe 25may and i end it the 16th of juin im at home for the weekend we got it off lol but i got to be back up there sunday 7pm and monday we going top fire some C9 !
and after my SQ i got   my engineer training that will be at gagetown   and on my BMQ   there was some guy that left it after   the first weekend i dont thinnk   they should put like 2 years therm of service   or if theyw ould put it they should put it after u done ur BMQ , SQ and etc and you officialy in your unity


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## brin11 (30 May 2004)

PnkrWeb,

We're having a really hard time understanding your posts.  Here's another kindly suggestion that you proof read your posts prior to sending them.  A few spelling mistakes or abbreviations are one thing but when you have to strain yourself to understand a post it's time for some proof reading.

Thanks.


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## PnkrWeb (30 May 2004)

ya i knopw i should try usings pel chek i try but well the way i write in english ( like in chat with shorter word make the spell chek   all f***** up and im not english my main language is french im from quebec so two factor that make i may write bad in english


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## Pvt_QoR (31 May 2004)

How ru wasting time and money by having a troop transfer from reserve to reg forces?i think u should be allowed to transfer at anytime.it still costs the canadian goverment money to train toops in reg force.Besides the alot of people who started off in reserves and went to reg's usually come back to their old reserve units to train new recruits with the experience they gained from reg force training.I do how ever agree that people joining reserves should have to serve a mandatory 2-3 years with thier units.Just my opinion


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