# Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks/Ian‘s Canadian Blues



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *DHall058@aol.com* on *Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:17:19 EST*
Ian, in a previous life, were you the guy that foretold the Fall of Rome, the 
beginning of the Dark Ages, and the cancellation of "Laugh In"?  Geez, we 
finally get a sunny day here in Baja British Columbia, and a holiday to boot, 
and now I‘ve got to check Priceline.Com for airfares to Australia...
Dave Hall
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:33:38 -0000*
Well said, Ian. And you‘re right - why despair now? People have been wailing 
and gnashing their teeth over this stuff for decades and "we‘re still 
standing", as the song goes.
I think the importance of economic integration to nationhood is actually 
over-rated. A nation is a nation when it feels itself to be one. It‘s that 
simple. And that‘s why cuts to the CF, more than, say, free trade, worry me. 
If we don‘t think our national defense is worth investing in, what does that 
say about our sense of nationhood?
As to Western sep. being rural-urban, I think you‘re basically right. There 
are all kinds of people in rural northern Ontario and Quebec, and in the 
wilds of Atlantic Canada, who share a worldview not too different from that 
of the folks who got together in Yorkton last week, I think.
Good points, also, about the importance of culture to nat identity and about 
the rather ugly scenario emerging from the int‘l. trade bodies, where Canada 
seems to get shafted, each and every time. Am just waiting for this Brazil 
thing to blow up in our faces and for Bombardier to go down, which would be 
a great pity. Just as I think "real" industrialized nations invest in 
defense, so I also think they tend to spend on aerospace and even, God 
forbid, arms from time to time. Don‘t know what we can do about either, but 
your points are valid
Anyway, these problems began *long* before I started to pay much attention 
to them, and I doubt that my whining on-line will change anything at this 
late date, so I‘ll shut up for now!.
Cheers,
Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Joan‘s budget cutbacks
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:30:53 -0700
The atrophy of our armed forces is just the most obvious example symbol of
the decline of Canadian soverignty.
Our culture is *******ized by the worst of American culture Hollywood, et
al that, as the decades creep onward, becomes more pervasive, as Showbiz
becomes an intregal part of so many aspects of life from newsreporting
infotainment to professional sports to ... well, you know what I mean.
Western separtism, on the Prairies, is more a Rural versus City thing. Yes,
we in Alberta pay some $1,800 per man women and child to belong to Canada
net effect of federal taxes paid/federal spending in the Province. But
Saskatchewan is a net receiver of federal largess last person to leave turn
out the lights please. And B.C., well, those mountains separating the
Lotuslanders from troc the rest of Canada have always been a psychological
barrier that will never be erased.
And yet how can we be soverign and so closely linked economically to the
U.S. We are about to lose both the Autopak and the softwood lumber treaty.
If the US goes into a recession there will be increased pressure by US
powers to resist import of Canadian "logs and hogs" and we will be plunged
into an even worse recession. Jean Cretein will retire and be replaced by
Brian Tobin. The dollar will plunge even further allowing what‘s left to be
bought up even cheaper by the Yanks and Ian, if he can still afford it, will
buy a one way ticket to Australia.
Monday Morning Gloom. Actually, I‘ve heard rants like the above since I was
14. Canada is still here. In 200 years the U.S. may not be. In much less
time Mexico may become part of the U.S. and the U.S., by definition, will
become part of Mexico. Just to close and get on to more pressing tasks may I
again quote Walt Kelly‘s Pogo "I‘se seen the enemy and he is us". That‘s a
US cartoon strip from the 50s and 60s, folks. Or, "I am Agamemnon, King of
Kings. Look upon my works ye mighty and despair" Keats, Byron, ???
----- Original Message -----
From: Joan O. Arc 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: Re. budget cutbacksnever endingbudget cutbacks
 > Indeed.
 >
 > Now, Ian and others, do my comments a few weeks ago about there being
some
 > people out there Western separatists come on down! who think if Canada
 > can‘t be bothered/can‘t manage to defend itself, that we might as well
throw
 > the towel in on nationhood start to make some sense?
 >
 > Personally, the whole business makes me ill. If the feds chanelled
one-tenth
 > of what they toss around on regional transfer payments and bad grants to
bad
 > businesses into rebuilding the armed forces, it would be, in my view, a
step
 > in the right direction. But try telling *that* to the powers that be in
the
 > Liberal Party of Canada... Where are the Tories when we need them?
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 > Joan
 >
 >
 > ----Original Message Follows----
 > From: RCA Bomber 
 > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
 > To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
 > Subject: Re. budget cutbacksnever endingbudget cutbacks
 > Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:37:13 -0500 EST
 >
 > With the mothballing of half the airforce planes, the
 > cutting back of the arctic patrols, the ML‘s, and
 > LSVW‘s being grounded, etc, when is the army going to
 > have to say "we cannot do it anymore!"  Maybe the
 > recent trade mission to China should have brought back
 > some of the equipment that was taken in the Korean
 > war.  I saw a whole bunch of  RCHA uniforms, a bunch
 > of Bren and Sten guns, an RCR corporal‘s promotion
 > papers, an American 105 howitzer same as our C1 -
 > which is better than the currently used C3 a small
 > mortar, etc when I was at the military museum in
 > Beijing last month.  Maybe taking museum articles is
 > not such a bad idea after all.  I‘m sure the national
 > war museum has some jeeps from world war two that
 > would run better than an Iltis. ha!
 >
 > I don‘t want to sound too pessimistic or defeatist,
 > but there has to come a time when the public says
 > "enough is enough".
 >
 > _______________________________________________________
 > Do You Yahoo!?
 > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at  http://mail.yahoo.ca 
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:30:14 -0700*
Just the cancellation of "Laugh In". You bet your sweet Bippie, and give my
regards to the Boys in the Bunker.
Australia would only give me temporary relieve. "It‘s everywhere, it‘s
everywhere." Oh, and there are some good aspects to Amurican culture, just
that it‘s not very pervasive. Damed with faint praise.
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks/Ian‘s Canadian Blues
> Ian, in a previous life, were you the guy that foretold the Fall of Rome,
the
> beginning of the Dark Ages, and the cancellation of "Laugh In"?  Geez, we
> finally get a sunny day here in Baja British Columbia, and a holiday to
boot,
> and now I‘ve got to check Priceline.Com for airfares to Australia...
> Dave Hall
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:56:14 -0700*
The thing is, the longer we go, the worse it gets.....maybe if it goes long
enough, those uttering warnings all these years will  be right. I was having
a discussion with a police officer friend of mine, over beer and cards, at
the hunting camp, one night. We were discussing the decline of the Armed
Forces, society‘s general apathy towards crime, peoples‘ general lack of
regard for others, etc. I think he put it best... "You‘re sitting in a tub
of water, and someone increases the temperature of the water, one degree at
a time...... at what point do you scream?"
Sour as it may be, I think society will deserve whatever it gets.. let ‘em
have their espressos, cell phones and all that is important, right now.
Nobody loves a soldier, until the enemy is at the gate. I‘m gonna work hard,
retire early, and head for the woods. Nuff said.
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan O. Arc" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks
> Well said, Ian. And you‘re right - why despair now? People have been
wailing
> and gnashing their teeth over this stuff for decades and "we‘re still
> standing", as the song goes.
>
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:14:34 -0500*
If I can throw a hat into the ring on this long term issue, I‘m of an
opinion that we will eventually be so overcommitted, and have lost enough
low-end, hands-on types and there is a counter argument that the bright
thinkers-there are a few-at the top end will be lured away by industry and
big bucks that what will probably be  domestic crisis will be unaswerable
without near mobilization of the Reserves.
With me so far?
Thats when they‘ll find out that the Reserves, too, are inadequately
equipped in nearly every respect.
Once some Canadians start to get hurt because of the underfunding, well,
thats when you will see  political about face in double time, at Rifle
cadence.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "The MacFarlanes‘" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks
> The thing is, the longer we go, the worse it gets.....maybe if it goes
long
> enough, those uttering warnings all these years will  be right. I was
having
> a discussion with a police officer friend of mine, over beer and cards, at
> the hunting camp, one night. We were discussing the decline of the Armed
> Forces, society‘s general apathy towards crime, peoples‘ general lack of
> regard for others, etc. I think he put it best... "You‘re sitting in a tub
> of water, and someone increases the temperature of the water, one degree
at
> a time...... at what point do you scream?"
> Sour as it may be, I think society will deserve whatever it gets.. let ‘em
> have their espressos, cell phones and all that is important, right now.
> Nobody loves a soldier, until the enemy is at the gate. I‘m gonna work
hard,
> retire early, and head for the woods. Nuff said.
> MacF
.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:17:18 -0700*
For those of you who don‘t know, we are in the initial stages of Land Force
Reserve Review LFRR.  I‘m as cynical as anyone ask John however, with
the new funding model, establishment and equipment model, the Reserve in the
Army is starting to look much better.  And heck, I‘m getting a new Armoury
this Spring.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gow 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks
> If I can throw a hat into the ring on this long term issue, I‘m of an
> opinion that we will eventually be so overcommitted, and have lost enough
> low-end, hands-on types and there is a counter argument that the bright
> thinkers-there are a few-at the top end will be lured away by industry and
> big bucks that what will probably be  domestic crisis will be unaswerable
> without near mobilization of the Reserves.
>
> With me so far?
>
> Thats when they‘ll find out that the Reserves, too, are inadequately
> equipped in nearly every respect.
>
> Once some Canadians start to get hurt because of the underfunding, well,
> thats when you will see  political about face in double time, at Rifle
> cadence.
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The MacFarlanes‘" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks
>
>
> > The thing is, the longer we go, the worse it gets.....maybe if it goes
> long
> > enough, those uttering warnings all these years will  be right. I was
> having
> > a discussion with a police officer friend of mine, over beer and cards,
at
> > the hunting camp, one night. We were discussing the decline of the Armed
> > Forces, society‘s general apathy towards crime, peoples‘ general lack of
> > regard for others, etc. I think he put it best... "You‘re sitting in a
tub
> > of water, and someone increases the temperature of the water, one degree
> at
> > a time...... at what point do you scream?"
> > Sour as it may be, I think society will deserve whatever it gets.. let
‘em
> > have their espressos, cell phones and all that is important, right now.
> > Nobody loves a soldier, until the enemy is at the gate. I‘m gonna work
> hard,
> > retire early, and head for the woods. Nuff said.
> > MacF
> .
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Tue, 20 Feb 2001 05:00:20 -0000*
You *are* a funny one! Try Uruguay maybe. I understand it‘s hard to get a 
hook-up to satellite TV one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse 
there... :
- Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks/Ian‘s Canadian Blues
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:30:14 -0700
Just the cancellation of "Laugh In". You bet your sweet Bippie, and give my
regards to the Boys in the Bunker.
Australia would only give me temporary relieve. "It‘s everywhere, it‘s
everywhere." Oh, and there are some good aspects to Amurican culture, just
that it‘s not very pervasive. Damed with faint praise.
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks/Ian‘s Canadian Blues
 > Ian, in a previous life, were you the guy that foretold the Fall of Rome,
the
 > beginning of the Dark Ages, and the cancellation of "Laugh In"?  Geez, we
 > finally get a sunny day here in Baja British Columbia, and a holiday to
boot,
 > and now I‘ve got to check Priceline.Com for airfares to Australia...
 > Dave Hall
 > --------------------------------------------------------
 > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
 > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
 > message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
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_________________________________________________________________________
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Tue, 20 Feb 2001 05:07:50 -0000*
That actually sounds kind of promising. Deep us posted as progress is made. 
It would be nice to have some *good* news about the CF to chew over on this 
list from time to time, for a change.
Cheers,
Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Donald Schepens" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:17:18 -0700
For those of you who don‘t know, we are in the initial stages of Land Force
Reserve Review LFRR.  I‘m as cynical as anyone ask John however, with
the new funding model, establishment and equipment model, the Reserve in the
Army is starting to look much better.  And heck, I‘m getting a new Armoury
this Spring.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gow 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks
 > If I can throw a hat into the ring on this long term issue, I‘m of an
 > opinion that we will eventually be so overcommitted, and have lost enough
 > low-end, hands-on types and there is a counter argument that the bright
 > thinkers-there are a few-at the top end will be lured away by industry 
and
 > big bucks that what will probably be  domestic crisis will be 
unaswerable
 > without near mobilization of the Reserves.
 >
 > With me so far?
 >
 > Thats when they‘ll find out that the Reserves, too, are inadequately
 > equipped in nearly every respect.
 >
 > Once some Canadians start to get hurt because of the underfunding, well,
 > thats when you will see  political about face in double time, at Rifle
 > cadence.
 >
 > John
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "The MacFarlanes‘" 
 > To: 
 > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:56 PM
 > Subject: Re: Joan‘s budget cutbacks
 >
 >
 > > The thing is, the longer we go, the worse it gets.....maybe if it goes
 > long
 > > enough, those uttering warnings all these years will  be right. I was
 > having
 > > a discussion with a police officer friend of mine, over beer and cards,
at
 > > the hunting camp, one night. We were discussing the decline of the 
Armed
 > > Forces, society‘s general apathy towards crime, peoples‘ general lack 
of
 > > regard for others, etc. I think he put it best... "You‘re sitting in a
tub
 > > of water, and someone increases the temperature of the water, one 
degree
 > at
 > > a time...... at what point do you scream?"
 > > Sour as it may be, I think society will deserve whatever it gets.. let
‘em
 > > have their espressos, cell phones and all that is important, right now.
 > > Nobody loves a soldier, until the enemy is at the gate. I‘m gonna work
 > hard,
 > > retire early, and head for the woods. Nuff said.
 > > MacF
 > .
 >
 > --------------------------------------------------------
 > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
 > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
 > message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
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