# Military FBO contracts



## MSTG93 (30 Jan 2015)

So over the past few months I've been noticing some issues with the FBOs who hold the government contracts.  Not really new but been causing me more grief recently.  Thought I'd ask the question and see what experiences guys have had and maybe someone can shed some light on the issue.

So what exactly is the point of the contract?  Other than being direct billed is there an advantage?  To the best of my knowledge we don't get any favourable rates nor is there any other tangible benefits.  In some cases the holder of the contract does not even have basic transient services like flight planning, ground power or even ramp space.  On a recent trip to Ottawa, even the ground controller didn't recognize the name of the company holding our contract.  Turns out it was just a guy with a truck.  No ramp, hanger, bathroom, GPU, or even a radio to call and let them know we there.  Since then I've run into similar situations a number of times.

So what's the point?  If there is no expectation of service level or cost benefit why not just leave it up to the end user?  Let the A/C, Det Comd, Ops ...etc decide which provider to use based on their requirements and the rates being offered.  We are after all the customer.  If they want the business of the Canadian government and tax payers' money we spend, then it's up to them to give us value, not our job to "share" our business.

Side note... I can only assume that there is a cost associated with awarding and administrating those contracts.  Not if we didn't have to do that then wouldn't that free up those funds?

Thoughts?


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## Sf2 (30 Jan 2015)

Our Sqn has an AIF regarding that YOW FBO in particular.  The Air Force is aware of it and others.


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## Welshy (30 Jan 2015)

The contract in Ottawa does not actually meet the contractual requirements for FBO. PWGSC really dropped the ball on that one. If you want more details on solutions we can talk offline, as I have been dealing with the Ottawa situation since the contract was award to AIG in the summer.


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## SupersonicMax (31 Jan 2015)

Gotta take that Contracting Direct with Trade course!  If you go to a god-forbid non contract FBO, you shall be lynched!


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## kev994 (31 Jan 2015)

Don't forget Green Procurement. Gotta get that environmentally friendly jet fuel!


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## Retired AF Guy (31 Jan 2015)

Okay, I'll bite; What's a "FBO" contract?


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## kev994 (31 Jan 2015)

Aircraft refuelling. No idea what it stands for. Generally refers to the supplier and their premises.


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## SupersonicMax (31 Jan 2015)

Fixed-Base Operator. 

PWGSC negotiation military contracts with fuel suppliers at civilian airports.  Those are published in aviation publications (GPH205 and Canadian Flight Supplement).  We HAVE to use them when we get fuel and not their competitors.


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## Retired AF Guy (31 Jan 2015)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Fixed-Base Operator.
> 
> PWGSC negotiation military contracts with fuel suppliers at civilian airports.  Those are published in aviation publications (GPH205 and Canadian Flight Supplement).  We HAVE to use them when we get fuel and not their competitors.



Thank you..


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## MSTG93 (31 Jan 2015)

So the question remains... What's the point of even having contracts?  Where lies the benefit to the customer?  (RCAF)


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## Good2Golf (31 Jan 2015)

Fuel price stability and provision of flight planning services.  

Time used to be that you could almost confirm blindfolded who the DND-contracted FBO was, depending on the Gov't in power.  The FBO contracts would seem to flop between ESSO Avitat (Conservatives) and Shell Aerocenter (Liberals).  Not sure how things went of the rails in YOW, but...

Regards
G2G


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## Pepperpots (31 Jan 2015)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a fixed fuel rate.  (No price stability). I believe it's the same as their posted rate at the time of service.  As for flight planning... visit CYOW.


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## Zoomie (1 Feb 2015)

Who needs a computer anymore for flight planning?  Some very basic apps on my phone and I'm ready to go! ;-)   I find it ridiculous that there is an FBO contract in place at YOW with hangar full of RCAF challengers (and all their delicious flight planning computers) right next door.


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## Good2Golf (1 Feb 2015)

...only for TC and 412, apparently.


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## Sf2 (1 Feb 2015)

Yes, sounds ridiculous....

However, try landing a 4 ship in YPG - guaranteed you'll be out of there faster by landing at the FBO than on the MIL side - and you don't need PPR


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## MSTG93 (1 Feb 2015)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Yes, sounds ridiculous....
> 
> However, try landing a 4 ship in YPG - guaranteed you'll be out of there faster by landing at the FBO than on the MIL side - and you don't need PPR



Which of course then begs the question... Why is it so hard to bring an RCAF aircraft onto an RCAF base?  Veering off the original topic...


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## Good2Golf (1 Feb 2015)

MSTG93 said:
			
		

> Which of course then begs the question... Why is it so hard to bring an RCAF aircraft onto an RCAF base?  Veering off the original topic...



Don't forget, the military is the lodger at Southport Aerospace.  It stopped being CFB Portage La Prairie years ago.

The intent of PPRs used to be to ensure that transient servicing had the right tow bar and GPU.  Once things turned into an "us charging each other to provide services to each other free-for-all" things got messed up.

G2G


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## Sf2 (1 Feb 2015)

Opps...typo. 

I meant YWG...Winnipeg, not Portage.  Portage is actually quite a pleasure to stop in at....they still have that to-die-for cheesecake at the mess.

Lets just say there are several steps of time consuming administration required in Winnipeg that isn't req'd at the FBO.


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## SupersonicMax (1 Feb 2015)

I always had super quick turns in YWG (mil side).  Fuel trucks are always there when I get there and I can normally be 45 mins between wheels down and wheels up again.


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## SeaKingTacco (2 Feb 2015)

You were lucky, Max. 17 Wing has a mandate to support your type of transient traffic.

The rest of us? Not so much...


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