# Standing out to Superiors



## JDR (14 Feb 2010)

'llo.
As a teen who is considering and leaning towards a career in the military (Cbt. Engr hopefully), one big question I have is this; Is it worth it to go the extra mile in boot camp?

I was in RCAC (Air Cadets) for 2 years, and did the utmost I could to achieve recognition and display initiative. In my first year I was awarded Marksman 2nd, 1st degrees and Expert Marksman badges for my time on the range, promoted to Corporal, got a silver fitness badge (and I was fairly overweight at the time), awarded Rookie of the Year, 100% Attendance, selected for Advanced Drill Training (aka selection process for Drill Team Commander), and tertiary flight 2IC. This isn't to brag, as these awards are worth next to nothing in the actual military, but just an example of the kind of initiative and effort i can and aim to put forth.

I know that it is examplery to be the best that I can be, regardless of recognition, and that is the model soldier that the CF strives for, but in Basic it would probably almost kill me to put this forth.

So, if I show myself to be among the best of the best of the best in Basic, will it follow to my AIT, and eventual permanent unit? Will it help along in any way? 
Or will it just establish me as the class suckup?


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## Nauticus (14 Feb 2010)

Speaking from experience, in BMQ, you don't want to stand out at all (positively or negatively).

Instructors aren't looking for good soldiers in BMQ. They're looking for good teams. So when one person is starting to stand out, it's a failure on the part of the team as a whole.


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## QM (14 Feb 2010)

None of what you list sounds like sucking up. Its simply being an excellent soldier, and you should keep it up. As with anything, though, one has to know one's limits. If putting all your energy into striving to be the very best of the best is going to cause you to fail in one or more key areas of your training, then its not a good idea. Prioritize those areas where your energy is best spent, and be satisfied with what you are able to achieve. No point in flaming out. In fact, it reflects poorly on you if you don't know how to balance your work.

So far as the benefits.......you would be shocked at the payoff that comes to someone who works hard. Many times, its in ways you are not even aware of. Yes, the CF rewards excellence, but it rewards hard work equally. Hard work reflects good character and you will find that your bosses reward good character. When there is an opportunity to do a good turn to a subordinate, ie. to get him on a good course or get him the posting he wants or the tour he wants, or even when there is a situation that could break either well or poorly for a person, it is often the case that the hard-working guy will get the breaks. We reward hard work. 

To speak to boot camp specifically, I would still say yes. If you are a hard worker who is on the line in a particular area, your superiors are more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt and let you through. As well, the staff at your phase training/AIT will read your "boot camp" course report and what is said on there will play a role in shaping their opinion of you. It will also help you should your superiors at your first unit think about accelerated promotion for you - they would be able to use a solid course report as a bit of additional "ammo" to support their case, although by that point it will just be a secondary source.

Finally, if you are a natural leader, that will come out, and will help you in countless ways. There are ample leadership opportunities even in boot camp, and being a natural leader among your peers will help you in so many ways. Bear in mind, of course, that the course is not just about you. If you stand out at the expense of your peers, that will show and that will hurt you (and the section). Your aim at all times has to be success of the mission and of your section. If you succeed in making yourself look good but the team fails because you were too focussed on yourself, you have failed too.  So, be as excellent as you can, but don't be an asshole about it.

Anyow....its not sucking up, its being professional. And I highly recommend it!!


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## MikeL (14 Feb 2010)

JDR said:
			
		

> 'llo.
> As a teen who is considering and leaning towards a career in the military (Cbt. Engr hopefully), one big question I have is this; Is it worth it to go the extra mile in boot camp?



Boot Camp is an American term. 



			
				JDR said:
			
		

> I was in RCAC (Air Cadets) for 2 years, and did the utmost I could to achieve recognition and display initiative.



So your only in it for attention an awards?




			
				JDR said:
			
		

> I was in RCAC (Air Cadets) for 2 years, and did the utmost I could to achieve recognition and display initiative. In my first year I was awarded Marksman 2nd, 1st degrees and Expert Marksman badges for my time on the range, promoted to Corporal, got a silver fitness badge (and I was fairly overweight at the time), awarded Rookie of the Year, 100% Attendance, selected for Advanced Drill Training (aka selection process for Drill Team Commander), and tertiary flight 2IC.



You didn't have to post all this as it really doesn't mean anything if you go into the CF.  Awesome that you were a keen cadet an did well, but it doesn't mean you will excell in the CF either.



			
				JDR said:
			
		

> This isn't to brag, as these awards are worth next to nothing in the actual military, but just an example of the kind of initiative and effort i can and aim to put forth.



Kinda seems like bragging no reason for you to have posted all your cadet awards. I hope you don't intend to wow your course staff an fellow recruits by saying all that.  Initiative is great, but so is modesty.




			
				JDR said:
			
		

> So, if I show myself to be among the best of the best of the best in Basic, will it follow to my AIT, and eventual permanent unit? Will it help along in any way?
> Or will it just establish me as the class suckup?



AIT is American aswell.. we call it QL3/DP1

You seem to be coming off as selfish an not a team player.. atleast in your post. Seem to wonder a lot about how things will effect YOU.  In BMQ, SQ, etc you should give it your best but you shouldn't be trying to be the best on the course.. not saying you should be a bag of **** either.  Yes make sure you are good to go, have your kit good, do what your told, an do well but you should also be concerned about helping your fellow recruits out.  


Also, when you get to a unit, yes show iniative, volunteer for any courses/taskings do well, etc but also help out your buddies.


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## ballz (14 Feb 2010)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> You seem to be coming off as selfish an not a team player..



No kidding... "So, if I show myself to be among the best of the best of the best in Basic"

You know what will make you the "best of the best of the best in Basic?" If the instructors think your just average because all the time you could have spent making your boots shinier than everybody elses, or ironing every single wrinkle out of your shirt, or whatever you could dream up in your mind to impress them, you spent that time bringing everybody else to your own "less than your personal best" standard.

Your instructors might not put you on a pedestal and give you the "Top Candidate" award at grad parade, but your comrades would. Up to you who you want to shine for the most I guess.


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## Juggler (14 Feb 2010)

2 years in RCAC, Air cadets, bein the best of the best. From what I have read, and will not question, terrible idea in regards to standing out. Agree most definately with skeletor. Not criticizing you JDR, but good thing you asked here and not just execute those actions in basic. TEAM GAME, no "I", even though there is a me in team, but me is not used singular.


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## OldSolduer (14 Feb 2010)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> Speaking from experience, in BMQ, you don't want to stand out at all (positively or negatively).
> 
> Instructors aren't looking for good soldiers in BMQ. They're looking for good teams. So when one person is starting to stand out, it's a failure on the part of the team as a whole.



This is garbage. Yes we do look for good soldiers. And we do stress teamwork. So do your best but NOT at the expense of the team. Help the weaker ones out. It may cost you a bit, but you don't base a 35 year career on how well you did in basic training .

Sounds like  a few people here didn't do very well on basic.


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## CallOfDuty (14 Feb 2010)

FWIW...most people deny cadet service during BMQ, so that instructors won't focus any "special" attention to them,lol.  In fact my buddy didn't even put 9 years of cadet time on his reg force application because he was afraid his instructors would find out.( now he's trying to get that time credited!) 
  Don't do that.  Go ahead and be good at stuff and help others.  Just stop bragging about cadet time.  
  Reminds me of the guy on my BMQ who talked non stop about his time in cadets.  When we started learning drill, he tried so hard to impress us with his awesome skills, he ended up shattering his ankles, spending the rest of his time in and out of the MIR on PAT platoon.  He released after that, lol.
COD


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Feb 2010)

This is pretty simple to me.

If you are performing to 100% of your ability to make the team as strong as possible, good for you.  Dont pat yourself on the head for it though, because thats just part of the job.

If you are performing to 100% of your ability to get the attention of the course staff and look like you are trying to get that Top Candidate slot, you can expect to eat lunch alone, not make many really good buddies, and maybe get the odd punch in the face.

There is no *I* in TEAM.

Whatever you do, don't bring your "well in Cadets" stuff into the CF.  I was a Seconder and Sixer in boy Scouts.  Ask the folks in my Chain of Command how much they care about that.

*editted for missing a key word in yellow  :blotto:


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## 1feral1 (14 Feb 2010)

JDR said:
			
		

> 'llo.
> As a teen who is considering and leaning towards a career in the military (Cbt. Engr hopefully), one big question I have is this; Is it worth it to go the extra mile in boot camp?
> 
> I was in RCAC (Air Cadets) for 2 years, and did the utmost I could to achieve recognition and display initiative. In my first year I was awarded Marksman 2nd, 1st degrees and Expert Marksman badges for my time on the range, promoted to Corporal, got a silver fitness badge (and I was fairly overweight at the time), awarded Rookie of the Year, 100% Attendance, selected for Advanced Drill Training (aka selection process for Drill Team Commander), and tertiary flight 2IC. This isn't to brag, as these awards are worth next to nothing in the actual military, but just an example of the kind of initiative and effort i can and aim to put forth.
> ...




So you were a cadet for 2 yrs.  So what?  If I was you I would just keep my mouth shut and be a normal part of your platoon, not drawing attention to yourself.

You've already done this by using foreign terms, which tells me you know more about another country's military than your own.

Attitude means everything, HTFU, or you'll be eaten alive by your own platoon or by the DS.

OWDU


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## TangoTwoBravo (14 Feb 2010)

JDR said:
			
		

> I know that it is examplery to be the best that I can be, regardless of recognition, and that is the model soldier that the CF strives for, but in Basic it would probably almost kill me to put this forth.
> 
> So, if I show myself to be among the best of the best of the best in Basic, will it follow to my AIT, and eventual permanent unit? Will it help along in any way?
> Or will it just establish me as the class suckup?



When I went through my initial officer training I was coming from four years of Cadets and a year of being a Trooper in the reserves. I had been to Germany as a flyover for an exercise and had been a Pl WO on summer call-outs. While I had always tried to be the keenest, hardest-charging candidate on prior courses I had got it into my head that I should be the grey man and dial it back and not draw any attention.

After about six weeks my Section instructor (a Sgt) noted in my weekly debrief that while I was doing fine he had the feeling I was deliberately holding back. He advised that I should give the course my all. You are not going to fool these guys - it isn't their first rodeo.

After that counselling session I stopped worrying about how I would be perceived and went for it. That is not to say I was a blade. I would help others when and where I could and would lay it all on the line for another guy when he was in a command role.  Nevertheless, I pushed myself and didn't worry about how this would be seen. 

Give your all, while bearing in mind that you are in a long-haul team event. Don't tell people what you know or what you have done before. Avoid bragging. Simply show what you are capable of doing and give it your all.


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## MedTechStudent (24 Mar 2010)

JDR said:
			
		

> I was in RCAC (Air Cadets) for 2 years



Your staff will know that you were a Cadet, there is no hiding it there.  You can try to act like you have no idea what you're doing when it comes to the drill or ranks or what have you, but they will pick up on it trust me.  And guess who gets it all the harder now that they know, that YOU know, that you should be "better".   

The other people here that have said just blend in and don't stand out are absolutely right.  There is nothing wrong with being the best at something, as long as you use that to teach and help the other people on your team.

Good luck,
Kyle


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## Fusaki (24 Mar 2010)

Just do your honest best and don't be a douche. It's not hard.


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## OldSolduer (24 Mar 2010)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> Just do your honest best and don't be a douche. It's not hard.



Excellent advice!!!


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## Greymatters (24 Mar 2010)

JDR said:
			
		

> I was in RCAC (Air Cadets) for 2 years, and did the utmost I could to achieve recognition and display initiative. In my first year I was awarded Marksman 2nd, 1st degrees and Expert Marksman badges for my time on the range, promoted to Corporal, got a silver fitness badge (and I was fairly overweight at the time), awarded Rookie of the Year, 100% Attendance, selected for Advanced Drill Training (aka selection process for Drill Team Commander), and tertiary flight 2IC. This isn't to brag, as these awards are worth next to nothing in the actual military, but just an example of the kind of initiative and effort i can and aim to put forth.



This is the kind of information your NCOs and officers at your first operational unit will be looking at AFTER you have completed basic and proven you are able to perform to the minimum standards set by the CF.


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## helpup (24 Mar 2010)

JDR,  You have what amounts to a taste, and some form of experience with the military.  I have seen many who thought that gave them an edge and watched them crash and burn.  Conversely I have seen many take that previous experience and shine.  Thinking about it now I conclude that the big difference was less on what they did prior or what the accomplishments were.  It was more of what their accomplishments allowed them to become.  

Your post does read as a ill-informed brag sheet. regardless of your meaning.  However if you took your experience and grew from it are a confident person willing to accept challenges, willing to push yourself, willing to help others, ( and in such a way that you don't come across as a "Mr done it all, have the answers" type. ) Then your past can help you excel.  There are many who tried to hide any past experience with cadets and or reserves.  Usually it does come out in the wash and is known by the staff and or your peers.  And for the most part it means diddly squat, outside of being a picking point if you screw up or people want to make an example of you.  In the end you will/should be judged ( rated) on your ability to perform, work as a team, and push yourself.

If your "Life experience" has made you a confident person who is competent in most tasks you will do well.  If you strive to do well at the expense of others you will fail, usually regardless how good you are/ or think you are.

Go into the Regular force with your eyes open, your past is just that, the past.  Be ready to learn all that is being presented to you and help those who may find it difficult.  Much as you should be able to rely on others to help you over any shortcomings.  Keep your personal drive handy but know that there is a time to show ( that is show it not shove it down peoples throats) it and a time to scale it back a bit.  

I say the last paragraph as too many go there with a chip on their shoulders bigger then their abilities warrant.  And also as even those who could back it up with ability alienated their peers and suffered as the result. 

My 2cents for what it is worth. 

helpup


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## benny88 (25 Mar 2010)

Tango2Bravo said:
			
		

> After about six weeks my Section instructor (a Sgt) noted in my weekly debrief that while I was doing fine he had the feeling I was deliberately holding back. He advised that I should give the course my all. You are not going to fool these guys - it isn't their first rodeo.



I too was called out a few weeks into Basic Officer's trg for attempting to be a "greyman." The DS asked me (with a bit of gusto, too.) if I was content just drifting through or if I thought I owed the people I would one day lead my best effort. From that day forth I garnered a bit more attention, some of it negative, sure, but if I hadn't I wouldn't have learned nearly as much and I think I would be a less effective leader.

Don't be a greyman. If you're not yourself, you won't learn anything about yourself or how you interact with others.

If you're reading this Sgt H from I0021E in 2007, thank you.


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## MedTechStudent (29 Mar 2010)

helpup said:
			
		

> And for the most part it means diddly squat, outside of being a picking point if you screw up or people want to make an example of you.



Hope you like being right marker.


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