# Being Smart...Joining The Canadian Forces



## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

Hello All,

I've finally made the decision about joining the Canadian Forces. I won't be applying for a year and a half however, as I have to make arrangements to have my daughter taken care of (single mother) and complete my high school. I am really happy to have found this forum, as I have been researching and started training. I just wanted to give a big thank you to all the members giving advice to those of us who know nothing as of yet.

My goal is to be able to join Int Ops. Train to the male's physical standards, if not higher within the next year. Thanks to those who have provided links to important information and tips for general success, and good luck to all those applying!

Lisha


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## mysteriousmind (7 Jul 2009)

Its a good decision, 

you have set some goal, and If you are giving all your energy to do it, you will acheive it.

I support you.  Fo rme joining the CF was, the best thing I ever did after marrying my wife. It kind of save me. 

Never give up. those goal are easily acheive.


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## Otis (7 Jul 2009)

IntelGirl said:
			
		

> My goal is to be able to join Int Ops. Train to the male's physical standards, if not higher within the next year. Thanks to those who have provided links to important information and tips for general success, and good luck to all those applying!
> 
> Lisha



Considering that the Application process can take between few months and more than a year, are you sure you don't want to put in your application sooner?

The other issue you may have is that, as far as I can find, Int Op is still a transfer only trade (meaning you have to be IN the forces in order to transfer into it) ... though I have found evidence that they MAY trial a direct-entry option in the near future.

Either way, good luck.


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## George Wallace (7 Jul 2009)

They have been hiring off the street in the last few years, but this may now have ceased.  In all likelihood, it has returned/will soon return to Occupational Transfers only.  Discussion on that is found in the topic on INT OP in the Combat Service Support and Branches forum.


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## Bzzliteyr (7 Jul 2009)

Intelgirl, there are many trades just begging for people and from what I understand, the military is ready to pay an incentive to get you into them.

EFFECTIVE 1 JUL 09, THE LIST OF OCCUPATIONS ELIGIBLE FOR A RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCE (REF A) IS RESCINDED AND REPLACED BY THE FOLLOWING UNDERSTRENGTH MILITARY OCCUPATIONS LIST (REF B):

    A. NE TECH (A) 00116
    B. NE TECH (C) 00117
    C. NE TECH (T) 00118
    D. SIG OP 00329
    E. BE TECH 00155
    F. SONAR OP 00324
    G. VEH TECH 00129
    H. LCIS TECH 00110
    I. AC OP 00337
    J. ATIS TECH 00109
    K. EGS TECH 00303
    L. FLT ENGR 00021
    M. NAV COMM 00299
    N. NW TECH 00017
    O. MED TECH 00334
    P. AMMO TECH 00169
    Q. ARTYMN-FD 00008
    R. MAR ENG MECH 00121
    S. MAR ENG ART 00123
    T. MAR EL 00126
    U. MLAB TECH 00152
    V. E TECH 00125
    W. AVS TECH 00136
    X. EO TECH 00327
    Y. PHARM 00194

I'm just looking through the references and I found that since you plan on finishing high school, I assume you have no post secondary education and are not eligible for the incentives.  However, I assume all those trades are the "short list" that are seriously looking for people.  And don't forget, if you don't have the skill set, the military will give it to you through training!


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## kincanucks (7 Jul 2009)

I assume you have no post secondary education and are not eligible for the incentives.

Just to be perfectly clear here.  Not all these trades require post-secondary education or training to be eligible for application and the recruiting allowance. Sonar Op and Arty Fd for example.


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## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

Well actually I first had emailed to ask about the Int Op position, and got an email back saying it was transfer only, however, I called a Sgt of the Winnipeg Recruitment office and he said I did not need a transfer to apply for Int Ops...so we'll see what happens, and yes, I am sure I don't want to send in my application sooner...because of the simple fact if it takes less time, I can't take that chance and have my daughter not taken care of while I am away at training, and I cannot just up and leave her. I have to have a plan in place before I even apply so I am ready to execute that plan.

Thanks for all the help.


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## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

Also, for Int Ops I do not need a post secondary education. If I did, I wouldn't be entering that trade. I need a high school education, which is what I plan to finish before I apply.


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## kincanucks (7 Jul 2009)

Please don't use actual names here.


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## Bzzliteyr (7 Jul 2009)

I was just on the phone with a recruiting friend of mine.  He is suggesting that even with a high school diploma, the Int trade is open but you will be competing with all of Canada for it.  The higher your education (history, geography, etc) the better.  You may not score too high with a simple high school diploma.

Basic high school diploma eligible trades are on the way, he'll be emailing me in about 15 minutes.

Can you fill out more of your profile as he was mentioning that provincial point systems vary and may play a factor.  I assume by your Winnipeg CFRC comment that that is where you are, but maybe some other details may come in handy.


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## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

Sorry, I'll know for next time. It's been changed.

Also, if Int Ops does not work out, I was planning on Artillery Field as a second option.


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## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

What sort of details would you recommend being put into my profile?


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## Bzzliteyr (7 Jul 2009)

Location at least.  It allows us to know "where you're coming from".  Age?  You talk of completing high school so in my mind I say that you dropped out to have a child, correct?  Other people might think you are on your last year of school.  

It helps to fill in the blanks when answers are given.  Of course, it might just be my curiosity as I am trying to answer questions my buddy is asking and I am lacking details.

Edited to add:  there is nothing wrong with the combat arms trades.  I originally joined with the intent on being a weapon tech.. the trade wasn't open so I took armour with the intent of remustering into it.  15 years later, still a tanker!!


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## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

Well I will add those details to my profile, and also for your use here. 

I am from Winnipeg, MB Born & raised.
Went to French Immersion for 10 years.
I am on my last term of school, never dropped out to have a child, went to school pregnant right up until I gave birth, and 2 weeks after I gave birth I went back.
I am 20 as of July 17th.
Always have had good communication/writing skills.
Was going to go into Journalism before deciding to join the CF.

Pretty good knowledge of historical events, especially WWII for some odd reason.


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## Bzzliteyr (7 Jul 2009)

C'est tres bon que tu est bilingue.  Make sure they know that at the recruiting center.

Math and sciences skills are a plus if you are looking at any "tech' trades as a secondary options.


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## The_Dictat (7 Jul 2009)

You can always join the 6 Intelligence Company Winnipeg Detachment, right away, start your training with the reserves and then join the regular force in the future.  However at this time of the year, it is likely that you would get your first intelligence course not before next summer depending on when you join and when you do your basic training

Be careful about what your are being told for Direct Entry Int Op, there is a lot of conflicting info circulating here.  As far as I know, the trial is not running right now or is already full.  The same for officers.  The quota for each is maximum 6 candidates per year.

If not, then any combat related trade is a great way to gain knowledge that would be useful for a future in intelligence. Keep in mind that a transfer between trades is a couple of years away.

To increase your chances, follow the news with a critical mind, learn military strategy and the equipment. Effective writing and briefing skills is a must.  Learn foreign languages... you get the gist.

Good luck


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## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

I plan on doing as much as I can to increase my odds of getting into Int Ops. I can read German and speak German as well, but understanding it is the bigger challenge. So, maybe start there. 

I added my firearms knowledge/experience in my profile for those wishing to view. However, whatever I need to learn, I will do it. I plan on applying Jan 1st of 2011, so let's hope if they still have the "6 per year" rule, I will be included in selection for that year.

Thanks everyone for your help/ Merci beaucoup!


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## George Wallace (7 Jul 2009)

Foreign languages are not going to be very relevant.  Int Ops are not Translators.  Translators are hired to Translate.  

An education is more relevant, as even Reserve Intelligence Units prefer to hire people with University Degrees.  Many Reserve Int Ops have a minimum of one Degree.  

Cbt Arms experience is also relevant, as even Reserve Intelligence Units prefer to take people who have already been trained and have experience in the CF.  Some units will not even look at you unless you have a Tour under your belt.  Most do not have the manpower to provide training for people who require BMQ and SQ, concentrating all their focus on training INT OPs.  Other desired points have already been mentioned.


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## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

It's mandatory for everyone to receive BMQ before proceeding onto waiting for training in their chosen trade...so I don't see how they would need to train someone "who needs BMQ" I will have had BMQ training. All I am planning on doing, is focusing on learning as much as possible. I know I don't need a University Degree to enter Int Ops, and they may want someone with a degree, that is fine...but I also know I can possibly get in without one.

If it doesn't work out, I know I will be well suited for other positions as well and it won't be a big deal, but right now my focus is Int Ops. For a single mother who doesn't even have her high school education yet, I can guarantee I am a heck of a lot smarter then everyone thinks I am.  Plus, I have a good sense of humor and dignity, who could resist my charm?


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## The_Dictat (7 Jul 2009)

George: Things have changed.  4 Int Coy is sending people on BMQ and SQ for the last two years (4 candidates start this morning in fact).  Each unit is different and have their own selection criteria based on the needs of the unit. 

Of course higher education make your candidature more attractive but potential and having the right mind for the job is more important.  So it is a competition, having the best file as possible is preferable.  Foreign language gives more points to the file.  Yes Int uses translators but having language skills is good and are used for other purposes.

Int Res unit change their requirements to be more severe only when there is few positions to fill.  They only take the best candidates available at the time of the recruiting drive.  They do have CFRG minimum standards but each have their selection requirement.
IntelGirl:  If you decide to try the reserve way to Int Op, contact 6 Int Coy Det Winnipeg for their recruiting procedure and requirements.


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## IntelGirl (7 Jul 2009)

Thanks for the info, The_Dictat,

I know my potential, and I am dead serious and dead committed to trying for Int Ops first, and that would be Regular Force. Because I am a single mother in school with, pretty much 0 support at the moment, I cannot join the reserves, nor do I want to really.

I'll keep in touch with some recruiters over the next year to see the pattern in information changes...maybe I can get a clue as to when would be the best time to apply would be, or gain some tips to further my application that way as well...


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## mariomike (7 Jul 2009)

I agree with the subject title. If I was young these days, I would take any job the CF offered me. I would choose the CF over any other employer. I think it beats anything civvy street has to offer these days.


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## The_Dictat (7 Jul 2009)

Then it that case, the quotas for each trade are distributed early in the year at all recruiting centers.  So you may want to apply for a Direct Entry into Int Op if its available in 2011, around march-april to get into the spots available.  Give the recruiting center a call about that in feb-march 2011 for better chance of being first come first served.

However, as it is for DE Int Officer, it is very likely that a selection board would be set up to evaluate candidatures in the later parts of 2011... so its likely to be a long process.

Until then, keep informed, there is a lot of great reading to do on the internet on the subject.

cheers


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## Bzzliteyr (7 Jul 2009)

I was going to call the Sgt recruiter guy at 4 Int but I think someone in here might already have that step covered.  We'll see.

As for Int, were you looking at going operator or officer?  That in itself changes all kinds of stuff (I understood operator).

A foot in the door as a reservist can definitely do no harm and can help you prepare for the job ahead.  Plus, you might be able to get your basic training done on weekends and even get it credited to you once you join the regs (pure speculation).

I wish you luck in your endeavour and hope that we have been helpful enough.


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## George Wallace (7 Jul 2009)

The_Dictat said:
			
		

> George: Things have changed.  4 Int Coy is sending people on BMQ and SQ for the last two years (4 candidates start this morning in fact).  Each unit is different and have their own selection criteria based on the needs of the unit.
> 
> Of course higher education make your candidature more attractive but potential and having the right mind for the job is more important.  So it is a competition, having the best file as possible is preferable.  Foreign language gives more points to the file.  Yes Int uses translators but having language skills is good and are used for other purposes.
> 
> ...



In our Area, if you want to put people on Crse, you need to cough up instructors.   

Each Reserve Unit sets its own Recruiting Criteria.  Some have very high standards.  Others may not.  I have seen instances where a Unit Recruiter gives a letter to anyone who enters his door (Not an INT unit).

In our area, I recommend to most that they join a Cbt Arms unit first for the experience, and then transfer over.  Every area and unit is different, so this may work, and may not work to ones satisfaction.  It can at times be frustrating, but if you really want something you will continue on.

As for taking BMQ and SQ before Trades training, that is the norm.  However, in the Reserves you need to be accepted into a Unit before you can start BMQ and then SQ.  

In the Regular Force, which looks like your intent, you can be accepted at the CFRC as an INT OP and then go to St Jean to do BMQ.  Once you are ready for Trades Trg as an INT OP you will be Course Loaded with approx 45 others to do the Distant Learn Portion.  Those that pass will then be loaded onto the Core portion of the INT OP QL5A and sent to Kingston.  There are only 24 positions on the Core or Common portion, so that should give you an idea of what the failure rate may be.  Even Reg Force pers fail out on it.  After the Core or Common phase/module, one will then go onto the Environmental phase/module which is the most demanding.

There is very little difference in the QL5A and the BIOC for officers, although the officers will cover a few things in more detail.  In most cases the lectures are identical.

In the end, these courses have steep learning curves.  The more experience one has, the better.

I agree with The_Dictat, that if you are interested, contact the Recruiter or someone at 6 Intelligence Company in Winnipeg and talk to them.  What they say will be more relevant to Reseve Intelligence hiring in Winnipeg than what the Sgt may have told you at the CFRC, as they are doing the hiring, not the CFRC, and they know what they need at this moment.  It may also give you more insight into what the job involves.

Again, for more of a feel of what is involved, look at the INT OP topic.


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