# Future of the OPME program/Everything you ever wanted to know about OPME



## fhg1893

Hi there.  

Since this morning, RMC Division of Continuing Studies had a town-hall meeting with the Dean of the division who basically went over the WFA proceedures, and the future of DCS, AND, since I still handle WAY too many basic inquires, I thought I'd try a new tactic to save myself work and make things more efficient.  Behold my weak attempt at solving some problems!

Err.  Let me start over.  

Hi.  I work in the OPME office.  Chances are good that if you've ever applied for OPME's, I've communicated with you.  I've at least seen your name.  Please feel free to pick my brain about the admin process.  I don't know everything, but I know an awful lot.

For example: If you have DWAN, 9 times out of 10, you can fix your own portal problems!   I deal with Active X and Java issues routinely, it's a real simple fix.  Just close Internet explorer, and find the program in your Java folder called "ssvagent.exe" and run it.  That's it!  90% of time, this fixes everything.

Academic dates can always be found here:  http://www.opme.forces.gc.ca/pro-ser/adm/dat-eng.asp

Learn your academic dates!  They're regular, and repeating.  If you want to get onto a course three days after the close of registration, my perspective is very simple.  If I have a spot on the course, I'll entertain your request.  If I don't have a spot, the answer is no.  Considering your specific situation is well beyond my duties.  I'd love to accomodate your request for special dispensation because you were sick/deployed/on exercise/bereaved/whatever, but the fact is, if I have a spot, I might be able to slide you in.  If I don't have one, there's nothing I can do.

I'm litterally on the front-line of this shmozel now sweeping through RMC DCS, I'm about as much of an insider as you can get.  There are big changes comming to the programme.  For example:  if you want to get your OPME's done under the old academic rubric, then it's strongly advised that you get them done in Summer 2012, or Fall 2012.  I can't promise that the progamme will still exist in Winter 2013, there is now a reasonable chance that it will shut down early, and blow up in CDA's face incidentally.  

So have at 'er Milnet.


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## MedCorps

Oh... I will start.  Firstly, thanks for stopping by our little corner of cyberspace.  I look forward to your input here and I think this is a good forum to communicate with the masses. 

So the budget showed that DCS / OPME will be tightening the belt.  You have indicated that the OPME programme may implode. 

Two questions.  

1) Given that the OMPE program delivers DP2 Common OGS to the Officer Corps then what will replace this training?  

2) I understand that the OGS and DP2 Common QS has been redone by CDA recently.  As such, it was through that the OMPE programme was going to change somewhat anyways and that OGS Common DP2 would be delivered by a less academic model that still reflected the common needs of the Officer Corps DP2. Given the work already done in moving the OPME progrmme in this direction, is this still scheduled to occur? 

Look forward to your input. 

MC


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## fhg1893

MedCorps said:
			
		

> Oh... I will start.  Firstly, thanks for stopping by our little corner of cyberspace.  I look forward to your input here and I think this is a good forum to communicate with the masses.
> 
> So the budget showed that DCS / OPME will be tightening the belt.  You have indicated that the OPME programme may implode.
> 
> Two questions.
> 
> 1) Given that the OMPE program delivers DP2 Common OGS to the Officer Corps then what will replace this training?



Right now, we don't know.  I did an assignment at CDA for a year, and I learned a lot about the process to get a course built from the ground up.  It takes at least 12-24 months.  Given the personel issues, and everybody jumping up for what the civil service calls deployment, not to be confused with military deployment, if things fall apart within this 12-24 month time frame, it's entirely possible that nothing will be offered until such time as the new program is built by CDA.  

As you can imagine, since DCS is being reduced by about half, everyone is trying to get out while the gettin's good, myself included.  In any case, the Dean advised the group today that IF the key staff, which would include me, are deployed, or resign, they will not be replaced, even with terms or casuals because there's no money.  If this happened, without having a replacement program ready and in place, then I would expect that this will create a gap, which RMC will not fill, and CDA will have nothing to deliver, at least temporarily.

What's the likelihood?  I can't be entirely sure, but quite high in my estimation.  My co-worker hasn't shared their plans with me, but my plans have me out of the department within 12 months, regardless of whether I remain in the public service or not.  That would leave two people to run OPME.   I expect that my co-worker will retire, leaving one.  And that person is the supervisor, and I can't see that person running the entire program.  It's just too much work for one person, no matter how committed.



			
				MedCorps said:
			
		

> 2) I understand that the OGS and DP2 Common QS has been redone by CDA recently.  As such, it was through that the OMPE programme was going to change somewhat anyways and that OGS Common DP2 would be delivered by a less academic model that still reflected the common needs of the Officer Corps DP2. Given the work already done in moving the OPME progrmme in this direction, is this still scheduled to occur?
> 
> Look forward to your input.
> 
> MC



Yes.  The OPME program was originally concieved of as an academic enterprise which is why RMC is/was running it.  RMC is an accredited institution, able to grant proper academic credits.  CDA is not.  The justification for RMC divesting OPME is essentially this exactly.  It will, eventually, no longer be an academic programme, and strictly a professional development one.  Future OPME credits will almost certainly no longer be considered academic university credits.  Because of that, there's no reason for the OPME's to be run out of RMC, CDA is going to take over.  I expect that CDA will push it onto the environmental commands and make DP2 the responsibility of the Navy, Army, and Air Force.  Of course, that's speculation, but considering that CDA will be seeing reductions as well, I think they're going to decide that they already have enough to do, and pass the buck to your CoC's.


Edited with more detail.


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## navymich

I am currently working towards my DMASc.  It includes 3 of the OPME courses in it's curriculum.  As an NCM, I am not always guaranteed an OPME so I have added the RMC equivalent to my ILP (i.e. Paying for the course which is a sure thing vice losing out on the free "lottery").  Will these equivalents still exist if/when the OPME program finishes?


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## fhg1893

airmich said:
			
		

> I am currently working towards my DMASc.  It includes 3 of the OPME courses in it's curriculum.  As an NCM, I am not always guaranteed an OPME so I have added the RMC equivalent to my ILP (i.e. Paying for the course which is a sure thing vice losing out on the free "lottery").  Will these equivalents still exist if/when the OPME program finishes?



Fortunately for you, probably.  RMC is going through some restructuring at the moment, so I can't be 100% sure.  I know that there is a plan to phase the courses through the OPME program out gradually.  However, this shouldn't affect RMC courses.  HIE208, POE206, HIE275 and PSE402 should still be offered through RMC, and RMC DCS.  But they will no longer be OPME courses.  They've always been RMC courses, and should continue to be RMC courses.


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## MedCorps

It sounds like the OPME programme will once again return to the the pre-RMC OPDP.  I am not sure that is is not a bad thing, having done the OPDP and watched many of my colleagues do the short lives CFMSP and then the OMPE programme. 

The academic credits that came along with many of the OMPE courses were a "nice to have" and arguably currently too rich for our fiscally tight wallets. They often give officers (who already have an undergraduate degree) a few more credits from RMC, for which to do nothing with.  I am also not sure that the academic nature of the OPME programme served the true requirements of OGS Common DP2 well.  Since the loss of Staff School as a DP2 Common residential activity and with the academic versus technical nature of the current OPME programme we have really lots come critical practical knowledge and skills in our junior officers.  

Maybe the new program will fix these problems. 

Now I have been reading about the seven NCM required non-academic credit "OPME" courses that NCM PD is developing and about to roll out in order make the lives of NCMs as difficult as Lt's and Capt's ("Hell, they all wanted to do OPME's lets mandate their own seven credit program," was the exclamation I heard recently). 

Where are these coming out of?  DCS or CDA or ???.  Who is developing and who is running?  

Thanks again.

MC


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## navymich

Good news, thank you.  I doubt it would be pleasant to have a curriculum change partway through a program.


On another note,  the academic dates show the course confirmation as 22 Apr which is a Sunday.  is that correct, or will it actually happen on the Monday?


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## fhg1893

MedCorps said:
			
		

> Where are these coming out of?  DCS or CDA or ???.  Who is developing and who is running?
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> MC



I was actually present at one of those meetings, which given my substanive position in OPME was an interesting coincidence.  CDA is developing as far as I'm aware, NOT DCS.  I believe the plan was at the time to make NCMPD an ongoing proposition for NCM's.  I haven't been in the loop since then so I'm not entirely sure, but the exclamation, "they all want to do OPME anyway" is quite accurate.  I believe it's ~6000 applicants, ~2/3 of which are NCM's for OPME's per semester.  I'm guessing that CDA will shove it onto the environmental commands again, while maintaining arms-length oversight.


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## fhg1893

airmich said:
			
		

> On another note,  the academic dates show the course confirmation as 22 Apr which is a Sunday.  is that correct, or will it actually happen on the Monday?



I did a batch of NCM confirmations today in fact, but that's only the beginning.  22nd April is more like a deadline, but given how many exceptions we typically make, and sometimes, outright mistakes that  we make, it could be before or after.

It's just me pushing out the confirmations at the moment, so between the telephone, voicemail, e-mail, and my regular administrative work processing course withdrawals, and finalizing outstanding registrations, I hope that I'll have ~90% of confirmations out within the next 10 days.  I expect that I'll end up missing the April 22nd deadline in at least ~10% of cases.


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## Gunner98

Just let me say well done to those currently coordinating, supervising and completing the OPME program.

I am so thankful that those of us who completed OPDP were granted exemption from OPME.  It took me 10 years (until 1996)  to complete the OPDP.  I have had few equally satisfying feelings than to know that sordid adventure called  professional development was behind me.


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## Spring_bok

Can we expect the usual rejection letters any day now?  I have began registering for two at a time to play the odds.


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## fhg1893

Spring_bok said:
			
		

> Can we expect the usual rejection letters any day now?  I have began registering for two at a time to play the odds.



Soon.  Had a sick girl today to look after, so nothin' got done today.  

First thing is to finish off the Navy and their on-site courses.  Then comes finishing off outstanding withdrawal forms and applications.  Then, if the phone isn't ringing off the hook, and the e-mails have been reduced to a managable size, then I might be able to confirm the outstanding officers.  Then, I'll probably need to revisit the registration forms and withdrawals, they really do come in 24-7.  Then I might be able to start working on the NCM batches where I have to watch my numbers.  Then come rejections.  Next week I hope and pray, if I don't have to walk another 10-20 people through the registration process from start to finish in between answering e-mails.


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## muffin

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> I was actually present at one of those meetings, which given my substanive position in OPME was an interesting coincidence.  CDA is developing as far as I'm aware, NOT DCS.  I believe the plan was at the time to make NCMPD an ongoing proposition for NCM's.  I haven't been in the loop since then so I'm not entirely sure, but the exclamation, "they all want to do OPME anyway" is quite accurate.  I believe it's ~6000 applicants, ~2/3 of which are NCM's for OPME's per semester.  I'm guessing that CDA will shove it onto the environmental commands again, while maintaining arms-length oversight.



Hi there ,
I can help shed a little light on the NCMPD plan - this document was released by "the Digital Chief" last week.

You can follow him on Facebook if you have an account, or his blog or twitter if you are interested in keeping up with NCMPD.


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## PuckChaser

Spring_bok said:
			
		

> Can we expect the usual rejection letters any day now?  I have began registering for two at a time to play the odds.



Doing the same, hope I get them both. I've got time while deployed to do them. Even just one would be awesome, third times the charm for Intro Mil Law.


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## fhg1893

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Doing the same, hope I get them both. I've got time while deployed to do them. Even just one would be awesome, third times the charm for Intro Mil Law.



Not necessarily this semester.  Looks like both DCE001, and DCE002 have been reduced by 1/3.  Last semester, Winter 2012 I had 900 spaces for DCE001, and Fall 2011, I had 900 spaces for both.  This semester it looks like it's 600 each.  That's a big haircut for OPME's most popular courses.


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## Dirt Digger

Quick confirmation - Is the Fall 2012 session still on the table?  

I currently have two OPMEs left to complete (Ethics and Tech/Warfare).  I've already signed up for Ethics over the summer session and want to make sure the program will still be around for the final push in the fall.  Or...should I look at signing up for the second course and get them both done at the same time?  I'm not sure what the combined work load of the two would be...

BTW - Thanks for the post, as I'm sure it's a question that many at the half way point of the program are thinking about - I'd hate to get caught in the middle of a restructure!


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## fhg1893

Dirt Digger said:
			
		

> Quick confirmation - Is the Fall 2012 session still on the table?
> 
> I currently have two OPMEs left to complete (Ethics and Tech/Warfare).  I've already signed up for Ethics over the summer session and want to make sure the program will still be around for the final push in the fall.  Or...should I look at signing up for the second course and get them both done at the same time?  I'm not sure what the combined work load of the two would be...
> 
> BTW - Thanks for the post, as I'm sure it's a question that many at the half way point of the program are thinking about - I'd hate to get caught in the middle of a restructure!



As of right now, yes.  OPME is slated to run for three years, assuming that the staff, including me - or at this rate, just me, stick around that long.  As of right now, I'm the guy who's going to end up shutting the lights off when this thing finally runs out its budget.

I'm not planning on sticking around that long.  We've been told that DCS won't replace the staff, but if they have to they might.  Of course, sudden departures will make that a near-impossibility, I'm the only one who really knows how to run the systems.  The corporate knowledge is at risk if I depart.

In sum, OPME is budgeted until 2015, assuming they can keep the staff.  Two out of three aren't in the office now, and they don't want to return.  I'm the third.   And I'm saying to you that if things go my way, AND they don't replace me, this program will last a maximum of 12 months, possibly as little as 6 or 8.  I expect that they'll run courses in Fall 2012 - I expect that I'll last that long, but it wouldn't surprise me if those were the last before kicking this thing over to CDA.


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## PuckChaser

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> Not necessarily this semester.  Looks like both DCE001, and DCE002 have been reduced by 1/3.  Last semester, Winter 2012 I had 900 spaces for DCE001, and Fall 2011, I had 900 spaces for both.  This semester it looks like it's 600 each.  That's a big haircut for OPME's most popular courses.



What does Canadian Military History look like?


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## fhg1893

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> What does Canadian Military History look like?



No haircut yet.  It was a good bet for NCM's in Summer 2012.  Registration is currently closed, so I can't take any more, sorry.  A good number will not get on, but right now, the first ~70 or so who signed up for it should get on.  I have more than 350 requests for it.


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## PuckChaser

Yikes, looks like I missed the cut for that as well, unless more people registered after the beginning of March. Fingers crossed!


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## fhg1893

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Yikes, looks like I missed the cut for that as well, unless more people registered after the beginning of March. Fingers crossed!



I've had more than a few courses where getting on the course or not was determined by a mere matter of hours.

I have to confirm with my supervisor tomorrow, but now that I have the Navy ~75% done, - all of Esquimalt is registered, and about half of Halifax, and barring any last minute changes, *fingers crossed* NCM confirmations for English courses should start coming out tomorrow, probably afternoon.  French DEF001, and DEF002 have been done.


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## fhg1893

It never fails.  The moment that registration closes, a large number of junior officers, but mostly captains will come screaming out of the woodwork with every excuse known to man, and some brand new for why they couldn't register in time, even though hundreds of their peers, and litteraly thousands NCM's managed this astonishingly simple task.  They had a full ~8 weeks to mess around with a DWAN computer, put in their registration and get confirmed almost immediately.  Meanwhile, some poor, but infinitely deserving MCpl, got up a o'dark stupid to register on the FIRST DAY, in the first HOUR of registration, all by himself, without help, and now, chances are, that poor dedicated soul isn't going to get his course, because these Johnny-come-lately's are trying to manipulate me into breaking the rules because they're special.  

Am I the only one who's become extremely frustrated at this situation?  Don't get me wrong, I love serving the Forces, but someone PLEASE do something about these junior officers whoa are at least on paper supposed to be leaders!

Okay, sorry.  Rant off.  Back to my withdrawal forms...


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## SeaKingTacco

Don't cave in. Do not enable poor planning.


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## fhg1893

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Don't cave in. Do not enable poor planning.



I ussually manage to avoid caving.  Now, I just send them up the chain because I'm too busy to entertain their request.  

The chain of command on the other hand...  Some always manage to get in, and there's nothing I can do about it.


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## fhg1893

And here we go folks, it's what many of you have been waiting for!  

I've got the green-light to process NCM course registrations, and have done a good number of them.  

If you registered for DCE001 after February 14th, you are probably not going to get the course.  DCE002 will have a similar result.  Other courses are considerably worse, including some which will have ZERO NCM presence.


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## PuckChaser

Wonder if they're gonna remove the points on merit boards for NCMs... you can't give people extra points on a merit board based on luck of getting a course.


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## fhg1893

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Wonder if they're gonna remove the points on merit boards for NCMs... you can't give people extra points on a merit board based on luck of getting a course.



I have a bone to pick with whomever it was who came up with the idea that NCMs should get points on their merit boards for OPMEs.  All the career managers have started pushing NCM's to take OFFICER professional military education, and it's made my job a helluva lot harder.  

Worse, it's patently unfair to the NCM's, because it's created a "need" for a course where the rules prevent me from treating them as a priority, even though some of them have applied 5 and 6 times.  As far as the chain is concerned, I'm just the idiot paper-pusher.  Not the University educated smart-guy I actually am.  

Ah well...  If this thing blows up in CDA's face, and maybe ends up boomeranging onto B. Gen Tremblay, I won't be shedding any tears.


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## aesop081

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> you can't give people extra points on a merit board based on luck of getting a course.



You can apply that logic to any course a member takes.


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## SkyHeff

I was advised a few weeks ago that since I was doing OJE this summer, I might as well take an OPME or two to fill the time. Now after reading these posts don't I feel like a jerk for applying two weeks ago.


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## jwtg

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> Fortunately for you, probably.  RMC is going through some restructuring at the moment, so I can't be 100% sure.  I know that there is a plan to phase the courses through the OPME program out gradually.  However, this shouldn't affect RMC courses.  HIE208, POE206, HIE275 and PSE402 should still be offered through RMC, and RMC DCS.  But they will no longer be OPME courses.  They've always been RMC courses, and should continue to be RMC courses.



I'm obviously pretty new to this scene, so forgive my ignorance.

If the courses are still going to be offered as courses at RMC, and still deal with the same material, then where are the savings by no longer having them be OPME courses?  Won't it cost more to put us through those courses and RMC and also through OPMEs?  

I guess I don't see what the CF gains here.  I'm sure there is a big piece of the puzzle I'm missing.


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## fhg1893

jwtg said:
			
		

> If the courses are still going to be offered as courses at RMC, and still deal with the same material, then where are the savings by no longer having them be OPME courses?



OPME courses are "free" for CF members.  RMC-DCS courses you have to pay for, CF members included.  It costs a lot of money to run an OPME course where ~1/4 the course ends up withdrawing - that tends to bleed money.  



			
				jwtg said:
			
		

> Won't it cost more to put us through those courses and RMC and also through OPMEs?
> 
> I guess I don't see what the CF gains here.  I'm sure there is a big piece of the puzzle I'm missing.



No.  In order to teach an OPME course other than DCE001, or DCE002, RMC needs to contract an instructor who holds a Master's degree or PhD in the proper discipline.    Furthermore, the governing faculty has to approve every new instructor.  This can end up being a very slow and expensive process.  In the past, we've had instructor's "pop-up" out of nowhere, after I had cleared the registration queues.  We'd effectively hired an instructor, but already notified large numbers of people that they weren't getting the course.  It became extremely difficult to find enough people to take the course, if only because of poor communication within our section, and between Faculty Services.  If such a thing were to happen on the undergraduate side of things, well, much of the money "lost" could and would be recovered by tuition fees.  

Then there's the issue of books, even though we've eliminated most of the books for OPME, we still have a handful of courses where we have to send books.  There used to be books for every course.  Average registration for OPME courses was ~2500 people.  In several cases, we'd have to send out multiple course packages because of members being deployed, someone forgetting to press a button, members moving, members going on exercise and missing the package etc. etc.  Sometimes, we didn't and still don't get the books back.  RMC has to pay the shipping both ways in any case, and add the replacement cost for books lost, and or not returned.  Books quickly become I believe the single largest line-item on the budget.  

In undergrad, unless I'm mistaken, the member is responsible for securing their books through Queen's Campus bookstore.  

So, in sum, it's much more expensive to run OPME where no tuition is paid by the member.  This is a big part of the reason why OPME is going to change radically in the next few years.  By getting rid of the academic component, CDA can employ, theoretically anyone to deliver the course, which cuts down on the expense associated with the red-tape that comes with contracting.  Further, CDA can produce whatever materials it wants in house, and put them online which is a minimal expense compared with mailing "dead-tree" editions.  And when material is updated, that makes things a lot cheaper, than having to re-buy everything.

It's a lot cheaper to go this route, but students will lose their ability to have OPME courses counted for academic credits.  In the past, some members have counted on this.  Others have counted on doing OPME's to get into UTPNCM.  That could well be a substantial setback for some people.  Some members will have no choice but to pick their poison it would seem.


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## dcs

But at RMC... are they not going to have to have other academic course to fill the spots???  

You need to have a certain number of courses to graduate.  If they now have to take additional courses is the cost of them not going to be the same ?


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## navymich

dcs said:
			
		

> But at RMC... are they not going to have to have other academic course to fill the spots???
> 
> You need to have a certain number of courses to graduate.  If they now have to take additional courses is the cost of them not going to be the same ?



I think this quote from earlier in the thread should answer your question.  The OPME courses are actual courses at RMC already.



			
				fhg1893 said:
			
		

> Fortunately for you, probably.  RMC is going through some restructuring at the moment, so I can't be 100% sure.  I know that there is a plan to phase the courses through the OPME program out gradually.  However, this shouldn't affect RMC courses.  HIE208, POE206, HIE275 and PSE402 should still be offered through RMC, and RMC DCS.  But they will no longer be OPME courses.  They've always been RMC courses, and should continue to be RMC courses.


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## Jarnhamar

I applied for 2 courses (defense management and military law I believe)
In an email back in feb I was told I should get a package to my email by April 15th or a confirmation Email. I have not recieved anything yet, should I continue to wait or try and contact someone?


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## fhg1893

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I applied for 2 courses (defense management and military law I believe)
> In an email back in feb I was told I should get a package to my email by April 15th or a confirmation Email. I have not recieved anything yet, should I continue to wait or try and contact someone?



DON'T CONTACT ANYONE YET!  Read this post first!   ;D

I get a HUGE number of e-mails and phone calls asking this kind of thing.  Each one limits my ability to respond to everybody else.  There were at least 6,000 applications.  Do the math.  Voicemail is god-awful right now.  It would take me about 2 hours, just to listen to my voicemail, and take the notes necessary to respond.  I would probably have to devote 2-3 days next week to listening to and responding to voicemail.  That's 2-3 business days at least where I couldn't do ANYTHING else.  No e-mail, no phone calls, no database, no password resets,  NOTHING.  Every phone call sets me back substantially because I have to drop everything I'm doing, and deal with one phone call.  Every other task allows some degree of multi-tasking.  Phone calls are by far the least efficient, and most problematic.  

The situation as it stands now is as follows.  I still have ~1500 applications to deal with.  I spent about 3/4 of Friday processing NCM applications and sending out rejection notices.  I don't personally send out notices, I just push the buttons which tells the server that it's supposed to send out notices.  For rejections, I took the bottom group, pretty much anybody who registered in March, or April was sent a notice yesterday, but it could take a few more days to catch up with them.  I'm still sort of finalizing spaces, and for obvious reasons I could be completely inaccurate about this, but from what I remember, anybody who registered after February 15th is not going to get onto a course.  If that's you, there's a rejection notice in your future.  If you registered BEFORE February 15th, I'm talking February 10th,  your acceptance notice should be on it's way.  Again, it could take a few days before it makes it to you because the e-mail system is very clunky, and nobody is willing to pay to fix it.  Makes me wish I was still working with MITE...

And April 16th is the first day that we could theoretically begin notifiying NCM's. 

PAY ATTENTION.  

We NEVER manage to start notifying people on close of registration +1 day, because the very SECOND that registration closes, EVERYBODY AND THEIR DOG suddenly develops a burning need to register for OPME courstes, and we have to spend about a week telling Johnny-come-lately, "No, that course is full."  I honestly get MORE registration inquiries in the week immediately following the close of registration than in any of the preceeding 7 weeks!  I SHOULD be using the time post-registration to sort out my class lists, and send notices, but instead, I've got to devote basically a full week to dealing with a variety of people demanding special dispensation.  So when I mention April 15th, it's always AFTER.  About a full week after.  NEVER on April 15th, or April 16th.  If you apply for summer, look for notices ~August 20th.  AFTER August 10th, not before.  Not August 11th.  Not August 12th.  Realistically, August 20th, 21st, 22nd.  Around there.  Any time before, I'm dealing with Bloggins-come-lately.  April 15th is only mentioned because it is a KNOWN DATE.  When I am able to start notifying NCM's depends a lot on the number of mostly junior officers, but really it cuts accross all ranks that I have to send up to the supervisor to rule on whether or not they get special dispensation.

CLEAR!?

Good.


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## navymich

So no news right now could be good news?  I always put my request in the first day it is open and typically within the first hour.  Luckily (and not typical), the DL RMC courses aren't full, so I still have that to fall back on if I get my rejection email from you.  I still have enough other courses besides RMC/OPME to take, so I'm still taking the cheap (i.e. free) way instead of paying.  Although reimbursement after the fact is great, it's the coughing up of the money up front that isn't always fun.

Here's keeping my *fingers crossed* for HIE275 - Survey of Technology, Society and Warfare.


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## fhg1893

airmich said:
			
		

> So no news right now could be good news?  I always put my request in the first day it is open and typically within the first hour.  Luckily (and not typical), the DL RMC courses aren't full, so I still have that to fall back on if I get my rejection email from you.  I still have enough other courses besides RMC/OPME to take, so I'm still taking the cheap (i.e. free) way instead of paying.  Although reimbursement after the fact is great, it's the coughing up of the money up front that isn't always fun.
> 
> Here's keeping my *fingers crossed* for HIE275 - Survey of Technology, Society and Warfare.



No news COULD still be good news, yes, absolutely.  It always takes about two weeks to finalize everything, simply because we have to shuffle things around for a while.  And there's always the chance, slim though it may be that an instructor will "pop-up" out of nowhere.  It happened this semster on PSE402.  We have one section that is I think something like 3 officers, and 22 NCM's, simply because the instructor was "unexpected" from my perspective.  

HOWEVER, if you're hoping for HIE275, or POE206 in summer semester, go the undergraduate RMC route ASAP.  The officers currently waiting for those courses are undoubtedly going to be absolutely LIVID when I send their rejection notices.


----------



## Jarnhamar

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> DON'T CONTACT ANYONE YET!  Read this post first!   ;D
> 
> I get a HUGE number of e-mails and phone calls asking this kind of thing.  Each one limits my ability to respond to everybody else.  There were at least 6,000 applications.  Do the math.  Voicemail is god-awful right now.  It would take me about 2 hours, just to listen to my voicemail, and take the notes necessary to respond.  I would probably have to devote 2-3 days next week to listening to and responding to voicemail.  That's 2-3 business days at least where I couldn't do ANYTHING else.  No e-mail, no phone calls, no database, no password resets,  NOTHING.  Every phone call sets me back substantially because I have to drop everything I'm doing, and deal with one phone call.  Every other task allows some degree of multi-tasking.  Phone calls are by far the least efficient, and most problematic.
> 
> The situation as it stands now is as follows.  I still have ~1500 applications to deal with.  I spent about 3/4 of Friday processing NCM applications and sending out rejection notices.  I don't personally send out notices, I just push the buttons which tells the server that it's supposed to send out notices.  For rejections, I took the bottom group, pretty much anybody who registered in March, or April was sent a notice yesterday, but it could take a few more days to catch up with them.  I'm still sort of finalizing spaces, and for obvious reasons I could be completely inaccurate about this, but from what I remember, anybody who registered after February 15th is not going to get onto a course.  If that's you, there's a rejection notice in your future.  If you registered BEFORE February 15th, I'm talking February 10th,  your acceptance notice should be on it's way.  Again, it could take a few days before it makes it to you because the e-mail system is very clunky, and nobody is willing to pay to fix it.  Makes me wish I was still working with MITE...
> 
> And April 16th is the first day that we could theoretically begin notifiying NCM's.
> 
> PAY ATTENTION.
> 
> We NEVER manage to start notifying people on close of registration +1 day, because the very SECOND that registration closes, EVERYBODY AND THEIR DOG suddenly develops a burning need to register for OPME courstes, and we have to spend about a week telling Johnny-come-lately, "No, that course is full."  I honestly get MORE registration inquiries in the week immediately following the close of registration than in any of the preceeding 7 weeks!  I SHOULD be using the time post-registration to sort out my class lists, and send notices, but instead, I've got to devote basically a full week to dealing with a variety of people demanding special dispensation.  So when I mention April 15th, it's always AFTER.  About a full week after.  NEVER on April 15th, or April 16th.  If you apply for summer, look for notices ~August 20th.  AFTER August 10th, not before.  Not August 11th.  Not August 12th.  Realistically, August 20th, 21st, 22nd.  Around there.  Any time before, I'm dealing with Bloggins-come-lately.  April 15th is only mentioned because it is a KNOWN DATE.  When I am able to start notifying NCM's depends a lot on the number of mostly junior officers, but really it cuts accross all ranks that I have to send up to the supervisor to rule on whether or not they get special dispensation.
> 
> CLEAR!?
> 
> Good.



I looked and I registered back in January however I'm also an NCO so I'll just wait and see what happens. Got any dirt on your supervisor I could use?  Just kidding....(not really)

You seem to take your job very seriously and put a lot of work and effort into it, thanks for all your hard work. I'm sure your job can be pretty thankless at times.

Thanks for your candor too.


----------



## navymich

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> HOWEVER, if you're hoping for HIE275, or POE206 in summer semester, go the undergraduate RMC route ASAP.



Thanks for the heads up.  Done.  Must be a summer thing for the RMC route; usually these are filled quickly but I am only 3/20.


----------



## fhg1893

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I looked and I registered back in January however I'm also an NCO so I'll just wait and see what happens. Got any dirt on your supervisor I could use?  Just kidding....(not really)
> 
> You seem to take your job very seriously and put a lot of work and effort into it, thanks for all your hard work. I'm sure your job can be pretty thankless at times.
> 
> Thanks for your candor too.



Thanks, but I don't entirely deserve that.  A good part of this is bureaucratic laziness on my part.   ;D  Most of my interaction with the members happens 1-on-1.  I answer the same questions, the same way, thousands of times in any given registration cycle.  The problem is, I'm not reaching a wide audience.  People knowing what to expect cuts down on the number of questions I have to answer during a registration cycle.  Plus, on my own time, I can give additional details which provide some insight into how the sausage machine works that I just don't have time to explain ~50-60 times per day during the week.  I'd honestly love to travel to each base, and give an OPME briefing, but of course, that would be crazy expensive, so forget that.  The money is better spent on courses.

Anyway.  Please excuse me if I'm a little curt.  Close of registration always gets on my nerves a little because I have to deal with so much of the same-o, same-o.

Worse, there are a lot of bureaucratic problems that I can't do anything about.

For example.  Because of accessibility compliance issues, all of my paper registration forms that you used to be able to obtain on the OPME website, www.opme.forces.gc.ca/, have  been moved to DNDLearn.  The forms were not compliant, so RMC decided to hide them all.  That means that for every withdrawal request, I have to manually send out a form.  Nothing I can do, it just shovels more work onto my plate. 

Worse.  DNDLearn has a limited number of licenses for users, so CDA has to routinely deactivate users, sometimes after as little as a few weeks of inactivity.  It'd be nice if they could just buy more licenses, but no, they have to build a brand-new delivery system instead.  In the meantime, I have to reactivate and resend passwords for my OPME students because apparently CDA isn't going to adopt the solution I proposed make sure that approved registrations would automatically have their accounts turned back on when they get course loaded in DNDLearn.  More work for me!

The OPME portal, an overly-simplistic problematic database, but good enough to get the job done.  Has to be DWAN only, becaues of security issues, nothing I can do.  Everybody who's OUTCAN, or doesn't have DWAN access, such as CIC, now COATS or something, needs to be manually sent a registration form.  More work for me.

JAVA issues, a perenial problem with an easy fix (for a change...) but most people don't know about it.  Some are just too lazy to try it - they  they demand a registration form, apparently thinking that a form is just as good (it isn't!!).  We also had an issue this semester when the fix I was sending to people stopped working abruptly because of Windows registry issues on the DWAN that I only found out about ~1.5 weeks ago, forcing us to go back to the old, slightly more difficult fix.  More work for me.  Thankfully, I caught this one about a month ago, and was able to adapt BEFORE I got the official word which saved some hassel.

A lot of these problems go away, or are reduced when I can reach a wider audience, rather than doing every single thing one-on-one.  When you understand how the sausage machine works, I get less phone calls, which translates into a more efficient system for you, and a better product over all.  Especially when I'm doing all the work that used to be done by four people...

So you can call me lazy if you like, I'll call myself lazy if you don't.   ;D  But on the other hand to be fair to myself, I really do care about the people I'm tasked with serving.  I see some value in the job I do, so, yes, I do take it seriously, and I've been known to bend a rule or two when I know that I can get away with it.     Sadly, that just doesn't happen very often anymore.


----------



## fhg1893

airmich said:
			
		

> Thanks for the heads up.  Done.  Must be a summer thing for the RMC route; usually these are filled quickly but I am only 3/20.



Yeah, that's the way of most academic institutions.  Fall-Winter are the busy semesters.  Summer is always relatively quiet.  Not in OPME mind you, just everywhere else at RMC.


----------



## jwtg

So what I gather is that OPMEs will no longer award credits to those who complete them.  What about if you're a student at RMC and you take the relevant academic course- will there be an option to PLAR or somehow have your course which is already for credit count as an OPME?


----------



## fhg1893

jwtg said:
			
		

> So what I gather is that OPMEs will no longer award credits to those who complete them.  What about if you're a student at RMC and you take the relevant academic course- will there be an option to PLAR or somehow have your course which is already for credit count as an OPME?



At the moment, this is so.  In the future, we don't know.  My educated guess is probably.  It largely depends on what CDA's QS and TP will eventually look like.  Assuming that the OPME program doesn't change much when it ceases being an academic program,  I would guess that some RMC courses will continue to be applicable to the future OPME's, and will be transferable.  RMC cadets as of something like two years ago have all of their OPME's PLAR'ed except DCE002, and I suspect that this will continue given how expensive these things can be.  Again, it does depend on how much CDA decides to change things.  

Also, like they did with OPDP, and OPDP-2, while I can't be sure, I think it's a safe bet that they'll put into place some kind of grand-fathering scheme, where if you have some OPME credits now, a portion of your future OPME program requirements will be waived.  Again, that depends on what the QS and TP look like, how closely the courses match up.


----------



## Spring_bok

How do HIE 275 and POE 206 look this summer for NCMs that registered on Feb 1st?


----------



## fhg1893

Spring_bok said:
			
		

> How do HIE 275 and POE 206 look this summer for NCMs that registered on Feb 1st?





			
				fhg1893 said:
			
		

> The officers currently waiting for those courses are undoubtedly going to be absolutely LIVID when I send their rejection notices.



^ This I'm afraid.  Where officers who registered during the registration period are in all likelihood going to get rejection notices, your chances as an NCM are approximately zero, even if you did register on 1 Feb.  

Sorry.  This is determined by the number of sections for any given course.  POE206 and HIE275 were a little lighter than usual this time around.  There's nothing I can do.  

There is still a chance, if the database admin made a mistake and hasn't created sections which should exist.  But as it stands now, based on the best information available, the answer is, zero NCMs will be course-loaded.


----------



## fhg1893

Please note:  When my system refuses to work properly for two days, your confirmations get delayed.  With every e-mail I have to answer, that's a few minutes that I'm NOT course-loading you, thus also not providing you a confirmation.  With ever phone-call I have to answer, that's always several minutes that I'm not course-loading you, thus also not providing you with a confirmation.  

Please note:  It always takes at least a week or more to send out e-mail confirmations and finalize class-lists.  This semester, for one person, I've managed to pare down the notices to be sent from Friday last at about 6,000 to just over 500 by close of business today, which factors in two days of no system functionality.

Finally, please note:  Once you get a DNDLearn login ID, KEEP IT!  That's not strong enough: When you get a DNDLearn login ID, _*KEEP IT!  KEEP IT!  KEEP IT!*_  *Your DNDLearn login ID is supposed to follow you for your entire career!*  WE _*DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT*_ resend your DNDLearn login ID every time you register  You get ONE, and _ONLY ONE_ DNDLearn provisioning e-mail.  It is imperative that you keep track of this login ID!  If you're reading this, and your buddy is complaining that he didn't get his DNDLearn login ID, and he's worried about his course starting May 7th, there are two possibilities:  one, his DNDLearn login ID will show up in his e-mail on May 6th, or two*HE ALREADY HAS ONE!!![/size][/size]*  This applies to you also!

If you want your confirmations FASTER, I have a hint for you:  Tell your friends about this!  Nobody seems to understand that we send DNDLearn login information ONCE.  It would be a big help to us if you told EVERYONE in your unit, that you got it straight from the horse's mouth that DNDLearn information is sent ONCE.

Sorry about the allcaps, thanks for reading...


----------



## Fishbone Jones

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> Please note:  When my system refuses to work properly for two days, your confirmations get delayed.  With every e-mail I have to answer, that's a few minutes that I'm NOT course-loading you, thus also not providing you a confirmation.  With ever phone-call I have to answer, that's always several minutes that I'm not course-loading you, thus also not providing you with a confirmation.
> 
> Please note:  It always takes at least a week or more to send out e-mail confirmations and finalize class-lists.  This semester, for one person, I've managed to pare down the notices to be sent from Friday last at about 6,000 to just over 500 by close of business today, which factors in two days of no system functionality.
> 
> Finally, please note:  Once you get a DNDLearn login ID, KEEP IT!  That's not strong enough: When you get a DNDLearn login ID, _*KEEP IT!  KEEP IT!  KEEP IT!*_  *Your DNDLearn login ID is supposed to follow you for your entire career!*  WE _*DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT*_ resend your DNDLearn login ID every time you register  You get ONE, and _ONLY ONE_ DNDLearn provisioning e-mail.  It is imperative that you keep track of this login ID!  If you're reading this, and your buddy is complaining that he didn't get his DNDLearn login ID, and he's worried about his course starting May 7th, there are two possibilities:  one, his DNDLearn login ID will show up in his e-mail on May 6th, or two*HE ALREADY HAS ONE!!![/size][/size]*  This applies to you also!
> 
> If you want your confirmations FASTER, I have a hint for you:  Tell your friends about this!  Nobody seems to understand that we send DNDLearn login information ONCE.  It would be a big help to us if you told EVERYONE in your unit, that you got it straight from the horse's mouth that DNDLearn information is sent ONCE.
> 
> Sorry about the allcaps, thanks for reading...




Settle down and quit being a drama queen.

I also took out all your childish, billboard sized screaming.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## armyvern

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> ....
> 
> Finally, please note:  Once you get a DNDLearn login ID, KEEP IT!  That's not strong enough: When you get a DNDLearn login ID, _*KEEP IT!  KEEP IT!  KEEP IT!*_  *Your DNDLearn login ID is supposed to follow you for your entire career!*  WE _*DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT*_ resend your DNDLearn login ID every time you register  You get ONE, and _ONLY ONE_ DNDLearn provisioning e-mail.  It is imperative that you keep track of this login ID!  If you're reading this, and your buddy is complaining that he didn't get his DNDLearn login ID, and he's worried about his course starting May 7th, there are two possibilities:  one, his DNDLearn login ID will show up in his e-mail on May 6th, or two*HE ALREADY HAS ONE!!![/size][/size]*  This applies to you also!
> 
> ....




Have to laugh; I think we've been communicating over the past 2 days. I'm actually certain of it. 

Please forgive me --- it's been 3.5 years of ATL course followed by 6 months of WU Trg and then a 10 month deployment and 4 months off ...

I had other things on my mind to keep in there as a priority. ;D


----------



## fhg1893

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Have to laugh; I think we've been communicating over the past 2 days. I'm actually certain of it.
> 
> Please forgive me --- it's been 3.5 years of ATL course followed by 6 months of WU Trg and then a 10 month deployment and 4 months off ...
> 
> I had other things on my mind to keep in there as a priority. ;D



I know how tough it is to be always on the go, and I try REALLY hard to cut the members some slack as much as I can.  That being said, in any given semester, there are ~6,000 of you, and 1 of me.  Probably closer to ~7,000 if we count Bloggins-come-lately. 

As a former RCR Sgt. Major established for me about a year ago, it takes at least TWO Canadians to make a French company drop their guns and run.   Even if each and every single one of you WERE French, well, I still don't like those odds.  And last I checked, there was a big difference between francophone, and France....


----------



## Journeyman

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> As a former RCR Sgt. Major established for me about a year ago, it takes at least TWO Canadians to make a French company drop their guns and run.   Even if each and every single one of you WERE French, well, I still don't like those odds.  And last I checked, there was a big difference between francophone, and France....


  WTF?!   ???


----------



## fhg1893

Journeyman said:
			
		

> WTF?!   ???



Yeah, I had a pretty rough day yesterday, and definitely wasn't making uch sense by the end of the day.  Sorry about that.

My point is, there's one person trying to deal with 6000+ registrations.  It takes time to get it done right.  Nobody seems to appreciate just how much volume is involved - especially when people forget to include things like, sevice numbers, DNDlearn account information, correct e-mail addresses, and correct student numbers.


----------



## aesop081

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> My point is, there's one person trying to deal with 6000+ registrations.  It takes time to get it done right.  Nobody seems to appreciate just how much volume is involved



Yes, you are over-worked and under appreciated, we get it. We got that several posts ago.

You're not the only one.

I found your posts on the process of registration and updates on the situation very informative. maybe you can continue to provided that, as it was obviously very needed.

The editorializing on the other hand, not so much.


----------



## Spring_bok

Still no rejection notices.  Is there a faint hope or is the system overwhelmed by all the rejection notices pending?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Journeyman said:
			
		

> WTF?!   ???



Talking incoherently, obviously stressing and losing his mind 8)


----------



## Jarnhamar

I just got this email today (actually 4 duplicates heh)  Does this mean I (and anyone else who got an email like this) have been accepted to the courses I've signed up for or is this just some kind of mass email sent out confirming peoples student numbers?  I ask because I've already had a user name from back in Jan when I applied (which is different than this one, started with a P)



> Hello XX,
> 
> You have been enrolled in DNDLearn with the following username.
> 
> Username: DLXXXXXX
> 
> Retrieve Password?
> http://www.dndlearn.forces.gc.ca/shared/dev/forgotpassword_bilingual.html
> 
> Go to www.dndlearn.forces.gc.ca/ to login
> 
> This email is automatically generated. Do Not Reply. Self-Registration courses are available from the "Self-Enrollment / S'inscrire" link on the first page you get to once logged in. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us. cda.dndlearnteam@forces.gc.ca for assistance
> 
> Please visit www.support.dndlearn.forces.gc.ca/new-nou/index-eng.asp for information and tutorials on DNDLearn


----------



## PuckChaser

DNDLearn is different from the OPME portal. You get a DNDLearn account number if you've been registered for a course. FHG mentioned earlier that there is a finite number of DNDLearn accounts available, so they only create them if you've gotten a course.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Cool thanks man.


----------



## fhg1893

Spring_bok said:
			
		

> Still no rejection notices.  Is there a faint hope or is the system overwhelmed by all the rejection notices pending?



I don't know what's happening with notices anymore.  I sent a request up the chain to check this out, and I heard back that it was a problem with student e-mail.   ??? 

I'm not particularly convinced of that explanation because it comes from a certain SOMEBODY who may have created spots in courses this semester which don't actually exist.  See below for a few details on that.

MY part of the process is pretty much finished.  Confirmation/rejection e-mails are pushed out by someone else - not the same SOMEBODY that I mention above - they USED to be pushed out by a Microsoft Exchange server, and then, that broke, so now they're done manually in some fashion or another.  DNDLearn account creation is handled by the DNDLearn team.  I've got my lists pretty well finalized, minus about 100 registrations.  We ARE keeping some people on the list, without notification just in case we get some room - things always shuffle around a little bit just before courses start.  In fact, I had one person ask this morning to drop a course.  Whenever that happens, some lucky, deserving  soul gets put onto the course at the last possible second.

Just FYI, courses don't show up on DNDLearn until the DAY they start, and not ONE SECOND before.  You wouldn't believe how often I answer this question.  I think I'll start forwarding everybody who asks to student services after all, it was their idea...

And, in what is quickly becoming a Monday ritual, the OPME portal, CFMSS was not functional again today.  That's about a day of wasted time for me because I can't really confirm anything if people forgot what courses they requested.  This happens all the time, people will call and ask to be confirmed, and on a day like today, at least for about an hour this morning, I can pull the individual class list and search for that person.  If I find them, I can confirm they're on the course.  If I don't find them, they were probably turned down.  If they've forgotten which class they registered for, well...  Would you waste your time hunting through ~2000 registrations spread out over ~40-50 sections to find one person who didn't have the presence of mind to REMEMBER even the vaguest description of what course they requested?  No?  Didn't think so... 



			
				PuckChaser said:
			
		

> DNDLearn is different from the OPME portal. You get a DNDLearn account number if you've been registered for a course. FHG mentioned earlier that there is a finite number of DNDLearn accounts available, so they only create them if you've gotten a course.



Let me clarify this just a little.  There are a finite number of licenses, which correspond to active accounts.  We can have just about as many inactive accounts as we want.  Or to be precise, we can have up to 1000000 DLXXXXXX accounts in DNDLearn, but only a finite number of those can be active at any given time.  We don't even have to use that format, instructors, and admins such as myself are firstname.lastname format.  The DLXXXXXX format was created to prevent duplication, because multiple DNDLearn accounts are a pain for EVERYBODY.  Trust me on this, kay?

Once you have a DNDLearn account, it stays with you for your whole career.  You will continue to use it, and you will not be repeatedly notified concerning what it is, unless you ask, which is when I press the button a few times to make DNDLearn resend you your information.  They were SUPPOSED to set up a system whereby your account would be turned back on when you were course loaded, since they routinely deactivate active accounts which haven't been used for a while.  I'm willing to bet that for the same reason above, that won't happen, even though I specifically requested that after reactivating about 200-300 DNDLearn accounts in Winter 2012, and incidentally, I DIDN'T GET THEM ALL, and I won't again in Summer 2012. 

It's actually quite vital that people with deactivated accounts reach me within a few days of the course beginning, but unfortunately, due to volume, they stand a very good chance of getting lost in the shuffle.  "Sorry you couldn't start your course for three weeks, but I had to deal with Capt Bloggins-Come-Lately who simply MUST have HIE275 THIS SEMESTER, or else he assures me that the world is going to explode!"   :rage:  It's fairly simple to get an account reactivated, but unfortunately people think that we resend their DNDLearn account information EVERY SEMESTER, and as I tried to explain earlier, with a bit more bile and vitriol than necessary, it just doesn't happen that way.  

It gets sent once automatically.  You're supposed to remember that you have one, but most people who take up my time don't manage to do that.

Anyway, if you have a DNDLearn account, hang onto it.  

CDA is naturally working on a brand-spanking new course-delivery system which will be automatically signed in, or so I'm told, with your DWAN account.  Given the way that the DWAN tends to work, or not work, as the case may be, and given that Borden recently lost a server, or so I'm told, pardon me, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one.  I've heard grandiose promises before.  Mostly about DNDLearn...

How about some updates while I'm at it...

We got an extra section of PSE402 out of nowhere, and NCM's who registered early REALLY lucked out this semester for that course.  One or two sections are like, two officers and the rest NCM, or something to that effect because of the phantom sections.  

I was wrong about POE206, some NCM's who requested it were registered for it.  Of course, that being said, SOMEBODY who may or may not have anything to do with some of the technical problems we've been having has been changing the numbers of permitted registrations in the OPME portal.  This is a signal to me that I can load against these spots, but I'm not sure they actually exist.  I can assure you that these phantom spots WEREN'T THERE three-four weeks ago.  Hopefully, those spots do in fact exist.  If they do not, I can predict a lot of angry NCM's in the future if SOMEBODY indicated to me through the system that there were places in a course which didn't really exist.  

Unfortunately, HIE275 was still the big loser.  No NCM's in HIE275 this semester.     HIE275 is spoiling to dethrone PSE402 as the course that people just can't get onto.

I've been told that we're supposed to be hiring a temp to fill in, but only until June.  ???   That's better than nothing I suppose...  Hopefully I can get caught up on phone calls with someone else to help in the office.

Finally, DCS is proposing to wind down the program starting in 12 months, by ceasing to offer two courses as OPME courses each year.  So, after 12 months, DCS is proposing that the slate of OPME's will be scaled back to 4 of 6, then 2 of 6 after another year.  I can't remember what order the courses are slated to be shut-down, but IIRC, one of the DCE's will no longer be offered after 12 months.  I'm guessing this is just being proposed and discussed at the moment, so it may not happen, but it's in the works.


----------



## Spring_bok

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I just got this email today (actually 4 duplicates heh)  Does this mean I (and anyone else who got an email like this) have been accepted to the courses I've signed up for or is this just some kind of mass email sent out confirming peoples student numbers?  I ask because I've already had a user name from back in Jan when I applied (which is different than this one, started with a P)


A DLXXXXXX is a dndlearn account number, a PXXXXX is a student number.


----------



## navymich

My OPME denial email finally arrived at 1600 today.  Glad I had the heads-up on the course being full earlier because otherwise it would have been too late today to still register for other courses for this semester.  I don't think I've ever seen the messages this delayed.

I always find it ironic how the denial letters end "Good luck with your studies".  More like a good luck next time because you're not doing anything this semester.  :


----------



## fhg1893

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> I was wrong about POE206, some NCM's who requested it were registered for it.  Of course, that being said, SOMEBODY who may or may not have anything to do with some of the technical problems we've been having has been changing the numbers of permitted registrations in the OPME portal.  This is a signal to me that I can load against these spots, but I'm not sure they actually exist.  I can assure you that these phantom spots WEREN'T THERE three-four weeks ago.  Hopefully, those spots do in fact exist.  If they do not, I can predict a lot of angry NCM's in the future if SOMEBODY indicated to me through the system that there were places in a course which didn't really exist.



Guess what everybody?  I was right.  I just found out that SOMEBODY forgot to change the numbers, and in effect "created" spots that weren't ever supposed to exist.  I've sent it up the chain, and now have to wait to be advised on our next step.  Some people are going to be shuffled around and sent to a different instructor, but I don't know who just yet.  Some people may be forcibly removed from the course.  Again, I don't know who.

Can anybody tell me what would happen in the Canadian Forces if I'd pointed out a screw-up like this before the fact?  Because I just can't envision anything positive happening in the public service thanks to my vigiliance...


----------



## Jarnhamar

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> Guess what everybody?  I was right.  I just found out that SOMEBODY forgot to change the numbers, and in effect "created" spots that weren't ever supposed to exist.  I've sent it up the chain, and now have to wait to be advised on our next step.  Some people are going to be shuffled around and sent to a different instructor, but I don't know who just yet.  Some people may be forcibly removed from the course.  Again, I don't know who.
> 
> Can anybody tell me what would happen in the Canadian Forces if I'd pointed out a screw-up like this before the fact?  Because I just can't envision anything positive happening in the public service thanks to my vigiliance...



You would be branded a witch and NIS would be sent to find you with a view to stealing your powers of foresight.

So what kinda bribes do you accept to ensure we keep our spot, brah?


----------



## fhg1893

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> You would be branded a witch and NIS would be sent to find you with a view to stealing your powers of foresight.
> 
> So what kinda bribes do you accept to ensure we keep our spot, brah?



It's the professors you've got to bribe, not me.

I've been instructed to try to retain everyone, and thankfully, the OPME programme supervisor directed me to save 10 spots in each course, so what will probably happen is that people who's spots "don't exist" will be shuffled into those spots where possible.  Also, not all spots were claimed by undergradute students, so in at least one course, on paper, we have enough space for everybody despite the screwup.  We will also ask that some instructors accept more students than they're contracted for.  This is where bribes might be helpful.

But let me find out a few more details about who's affected and who's not before you all start trying to bribe your instructors.


----------



## OldSolduer

Rejected again. 

There's always next year, right?


----------



## fhg1893

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Rejected again.
> 
> There's always next year, right?



For now.  Register for everything you can, on June 1st, at ~08:00 EST.  That maximizes your chances.


----------



## OldSolduer

Thank you for that info!!


----------



## Griffon

> CDA is naturally working on a brand-spanking new course-delivery system which will be automatically signed in, or so I'm told, with your DWAN account.  Given the way that the DWAN tends to work, or not work, as the case may be, and given that Borden recently lost a server, or so I'm told, pardon me, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one.  I've heard grandiose promises before.  Mostly about DNDLearn...



FYI, DNDLearn will be going offline May 2013, and will be replaced with the new DLN program.  As for how great that program is/will be, you can make that decision for yourself when it is released.


----------



## fhg1893

Griffon said:
			
		

> FYI, DNDLearn will be going offline May 2013, and will be replaced with the new DLN program.  As for how great that program is/will be, you can make that decision for yourself when it is released.



Which I just got confirmed will be DWAN only at least in the short-term.  Which means that if you don't have permanent DWAN access, you're pretty-much SOL for doing courses.  If you want to do your courses at home, you're SOL - you must go into the office, no exceptions.  If you're OUTCAN, you're SOL.  And so on...

I wouldn't expect a lot of publicity about this, I presently have enough to do telling everybody that they CAN do courses from home, without any special setup.  Can you just read the enthusiasm with which I'm anticipating possibly having to tell people that starting May 2013, they CAN'T do courses from home, no exceptions?

Unless that plan changes, folks, meet the new boss, same as the old boss...   :facepalm:


----------



## dangerboy

They better put that nice and clear on the registration.  I know for example myself when I got I did my DNDLearn stuff both for DL on course and OPMEs I did the majority of it at home as at work there is 4 of us sharing one computer.  That would force me to come into work after hours to log in and I doubt if I would have been able to finish my last course that way.l


----------



## aesop081

I'm glad i did all this before it was the "in" thing to do..........


----------



## dimsum

Was there any reason (that you can tell us) as to why DNDLearn is going DWAN-only?


----------



## fhg1893

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Was there any reason (that you can tell us) as to why DNDLearn is going DWAN-only?



I can only speculate.  My guess is that it's because the contract for delivering DNDLearn has been won by a new company, requiring new hardware, so the powers-that-be decided to get DNDLearn working on the DWAN first, and everything else second.


----------



## Griffon

> I can only speculate.  My guess is that it's because the contract for delivering DNDLearn has been won by a new company, requiring new hardware, so the powers-that-be decided to get DNDLearn working on the DWAN first, and everything else second.



That's fairly close.  The statement of requirements for DLN include internet access, but as you say this capability has not been put in place yet.  Because the content repository for DLN is supposed to be able to house info subject to CG/ITAR, there are a few security requirements that need to be in place that were apparently not required with DNDLearn.  Internet access was supposed to be in place this year, but I don't know when it'll actually happen.  I can however tell you that they are working on it, and I hope it'll be in place before DNDLearn goes offline.


----------



## fhg1893

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> It's the professors you've got to bribe, not me.



My understanding is, that the department has found room for everyone, and noone who was previously approved for a course will be removed from a course now.

This is a change from previous.  I've notified several affected personel this morning.  Other staff members are handling other personel.


----------



## fhg1893

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I'm glad i did all this before it was the "in" thing to do..........



A gift to yourself unlikely to stop paying off any time soon.    ;D 

You probably had the luxury of automatically generated system e-mails that actually worked without having to be pushed out by a third party.  I remember those.  I miss those.


----------



## dimsum

Sorry to revive this, but with the ending of OPMEs early next year, does anyone know what happens to folks who need all 6 completed to get further courses (ASC, etc.) but won't be able to finish all 6 by the deadline?  I was hoping to finish my last one in the summer 2013 session due to a deployment.


----------



## Haggis

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Sorry to revive this, but with the ending of OPMEs early next year, does anyone know what happens to folks who need all 6 completed to get further courses (ASC, etc.) but won't be able to finish all 6 by the deadline?  I was hoping to finish my last one in the summer 2013 session due to a deployment.



OPME is being replaced with the CF Junior Officer Development (CFJOD) Programme beginning on April 2013.  The amount of time required to complete CFJOD is approximately 25% *less * than OPME.  There will be a CANFORGEN coming out soon with more details.


----------



## dimsum

Haggis said:
			
		

> OPME is being replaced with the CF Junior Officer Development (CFJOD) Programme beginning on April 2013.  The amount of time required to complete CFJOD is approximately 25% *less * than OPME.  There will be a CANFORGEN coming out soon with more details.



Thanks for the info.  Is this the same program rumoured on here to be DWAN-only?  If so, that won't work as I don't have DWAN.  

Following on to that question, since there are apparently 2 sessions left of OPME, has anyone done the CF and Society course recently (or are doing it now)?  I'm hoping to enroll in that course next session, but have 2 questions: 

1.  Does that course have actual textbooks or is all of the course material online?
2.  Are the assignments in that course strictly essay-based or are they exam/quiz style where it is time-limited?

The reason I ask is that I will be either in pre-deployment training away from home base or deployed throughout that time and while I expect to have enough time to complete essays, I will not be able to devote 3 hours with a steady Internet connection to do a timed essay exam.  As for the books, I'm not going to be home for a while during that session and will be deployed away from other Canadians afterwards, so getting books and returning them will be....problematic.


----------



## wesley12

Hey man, 

First off, thanks for all you've done in posting this information, it's cleared up a good number of questions for me.  However, that said, it's created a few too.  I'm a cpl with only 4 years in and I just found out about the OPME's this past spring.  I'm just finishing up on my PSE402, but this is the first of my OMPE's.  I have applied for two more for the fall season, DCE001 and DCE002 (which you've said are amongst the most popular courses).  I didn't think I was likely to have the time to work on an OPME this coming semester, but just found out I could and replied late (though still within the application window).  My three questions are as follows:

1. The points on NCM merit boards that you referred to earlier, how can I find out how that system works?  (As in how many points does each OPME give an NCM, does an NCM need to have finished all of the OPMEs in order to qualify for them, and does the number of points credited vary from course to course)
2. When you said DCE001 and DCE002 were the most popular, does that also imply that they're more difficult to land a spot in?  I ask because of my NCM status and  my late registration
3. As it stands presently according to your forecasted the timeline of OPME program change, I couldn't finish all 6 even if I somehow managed enrollment in 2 each term.  You mentioned that the DCE001/002 courses were likely to change, so given the fact I can't finish all 6 prior to April and the fact that DCE001/002 apparently change frequently, is there even any purpose in enrolling in them?

Thanks!


----------



## Spring_bok

Although some branches apply criteria for merit boards differently than others, there is usually 2 point for each member of the board for professional  development.  A completed OPME in the reporting period is worth one of those points.  If you do 2 in the reporting period you max out at 2 points.  If you complete 3 OPMEs that is worth one point every year.   If you complete 5 OPMEs that is worth 2 points every year.  As far as the program changing, previous courses should be recognized as equivalent.  The career manager can tell you how the points work and it my be in his briefing on the EMMA website.  Further DCE001 and DCE002 are most popular because they are not university level courses.  They are allot of reading followed by online exams of multiple choice.  Honestly they could both be completed in a weekend or 2 quite easily.  Nothing like the PSE 402.  All the best of luck in your studies.


----------



## Spring_bok

Has the next round of  denial letters started yet?


----------



## dimsum

From the OPME DL website,  course confirmations should be starting on Friday (24 Aug).


----------



## OldSolduer

Anyone know how the OPMEs will work for NCMs?


----------



## Brasidas

Spring_bok said:
			
		

> Has the next round of  denial letters started yet?





			
				Dimsum said:
			
		

> From the OPME DL website,  course confirmations should be starting on Friday (24 Aug).





			
				Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Anyone know how the OPMEs will work for NCMs?



I got my course confirmations; NCM here.


----------



## Spring_bok

Good for you, best of luck. What did you get? I applied for the civics and the technology. Still waiting.


----------



## wesley12

DCE001W and DCE002W confirmations came in for me today.  I've already done PSE402, and even when these two are done, assuming I score two more in the winter term, I still won't have all 6 before the program changes.  At least (hopefully) my credits will be Grandfathered into whatever new system is in place, and I can finish it off.  Any chance there's an organized page detailing the specifics of the CFJOD?  Will it still be free to NCM's to apply for and complete like the OPME's are?  Any advice?


----------



## aesop081

3RCR said:
			
		

> Will it still be free to NCM's to apply for and complete like the OPME's are?



No.


----------



## catalyst

Dumb question, but I can't seem to find the form to withdraw - I managed to get myself loaded into DCE 100 in both the english and french serials and Id like to free a space up for somebody................am I totally blind (on day 7 of chasing cadets so....) or does somebody have a copy of the form (if not I'll just contact RMC in the morning)


----------



## PuckChaser

Its listed on the OPME website I believe, there's a specific withdraw form.


----------



## ajp

It is on your individual student home page as a link.  The link opens a PDF file with the form.


----------



## Cdnarmybear

I recieved a confirmation e-mail yesterday from the OPME folks and was accepted for CF and Modern Society.


----------



## pylon

DEF002W... Can I assume that this is Intro to Military Law, en francais? After looking it up on the RMC website, the title of the course is in french, but the entire course description is completely in english. I do recall applying for DCE002, as well as others, but do not recall selecting this course. C'est la vie.


----------



## Hurricane

As an NCM who has just started his first two OPME courses, I am now curious. Is there any form of program forecasted for NCM's in the future, similar to OPME?


----------



## aesop081

Hurricane said:
			
		

> As an NCM who has just started his first two OPME courses, I am now curious. Is there any form of program forecasted for NCM's in the future, similar to OPME?



As far as i know, NCMPME will include something similar, geared for NCMs.


----------



## Hurricane

I apologize for my ignorance, but is NCMPME a new upcoming program or is it already in existence?


----------



## Journeyman

Hurricane said:
			
		

> I apologize for my ignorance, but is NCMPME a new upcoming program or is it already in existence?
> 
> 
> 
> ....NCMPME will include something similar, geared for NCMs.
Click to expand...

The highlighted portion is what some call "future tense" -- it tends to indicate...well, "_future_"....as in, "upcoming," perhaps even "not yet extant."   :nod:


----------



## Hurricane

Ah yes of course, my lack of corrective lenses and the very small text on this iPod screen attributed to my misreading of CDNAviators post. Thank you however, for the clever reply to include definitions.


----------



## wesley12

Just a quick question regarding OPMEs and our MPRRs.  I completed PSE402 last term, and have completed both DCE001 and DCE002 this term already, when can I expect to see them updated on my MPRR?  I realize from past experience that the MPRRs always seem a bit delayed with other courses and information updates.  Will DCE001 and 002 have to wait until the end of the term before they're submitted to be applied to our MPRRs?  Also, earlier it was noted that having 3 OPMEs completed benefited the NCM merit boards with one additional point per year for the rest of the member's career, however it has been pointed out that DCE001 and 002 aren't University level courses, do they still count towards the 1 point per annum, or must it be the 200 and 400 series courses?


----------



## PuckChaser

Any of the 6 OPMEs count towards that extra point. It only took a couple weeks after the semester was over for my OPME to show up on my MPRR.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Does anyone have a contact number and email for the OPME people I could have to pass on? The one I have didn't work for someone.


----------



## PuckChaser

http://www.opme.forces.gc.ca/cu-cn/index-eng.asp

OPME one answered me pretty quickly last time.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Passed on, thanks a lot.


----------



## Canadian.Trucker

Reading through this post I felt kinda bad that I was one of "those guys" asking for late registration.  When I was told the course was full though I just waited and applied for this Fall's serials.

Not gonna lie, I'm immediately regretting taking 2 OPME's at once.  Live and learn.


----------



## Cdnarmybear

Did anyone else get an acceptance e-mail after the courses started for this term?  I had recieved one before the course started for POE206, which was fine. On Friday(14 Sept) after I got back from the ranges, I had an e-mail waiting in my inbox informing me I was registered for PSE402.


----------



## brihard

Understanding that OPME is on its way out, it sort of grates a bit that as courses are still being run PLARs will no longer be processed... Whatever comes in next for NCMs, let's not pretend there won't be some equivalencies granted for those who already have some OPME or equivalent work done...


----------



## Journeyman

Gee, it's too bad fhg1893, the self-proclaimed expert on all things OPME, isn't around to help out. 

He lasted about three weeks.   :


----------



## brihard

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Gee, it's too bad fhg1893, the self-proclaimed expert on all things OPME, isn't around to help out.
> 
> He lasted about three weeks.   :




I'm just bitter and desperate to have my degree count for *some*thing, even if it's just cobbling together an OPME PO by PO.  ;D


----------



## Jarnhamar

Can students self nominate for the winter 2013 semester through the website now or will registration for those courses only become available at a certain time.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Apparently the DL session for this winter is back on. I will try to get more info on this and pass it on but something should be coming down the pipes soon.
Be patient though, I am no OPME expert and am relatively new to the NCM PD Coord job in Halifax.

Pat


----------



## Pat in Halifax

For info, there are still seats available in Esquimalt and Halifax for the winter Residential phase for some courses. As well, for the DL phase reinstituted for the winter, you apply like you would have in the past through the website. Unfortunately, exact dates and cut off dates are not yet published. I will keep digging!!

Pat


----------



## honestyrules

I just put in for HIE208 Military history today. I also emailed the PLAR section from RMC, trying to figure if they would PLAR a part of HIE208 military history with the distance learning portion of the ILP I did in 2011.

Their answer was that because of the cessation (it's their term) of the OPME program as we know it, they aren't PLAR-ing anything for NCM's or NCO's anymore.

I heard that it was working the other way around in the last few years, where you could get PLAR'd the ILP DL if you had done the HIE 208 (as far as I heard)...that;s why I gave it a shot. :-\


----------



## ModlrMike

Twenty years on and we're still waiting for some form of NCM PD. I don't think it's fair to count the trade or leadership courses that we all take. They're not really any different than the common courses for the Officers. We had a golden opportunity to rework the old OPDP programme into something for NCMs. There could have been generous time lines coupled with specific milestones for each rank level. IE: GSK to proceed from Cpl to MCpl, MilLaw for MCpl to Sgt etc. Most, if not all of the OPDP were quite suited to NCM progression. Now that OPME is no longer, I despair that it will be many more years before an equivalent programme for NCMs is put forward.


----------



## Franko

Well, I registered today for the winter session. 

No doubt ill get rejected for a Pte in Kingston yet again, even though I registered meer moments agfter registration opened.

 It's been the trend as of late, at least from most Snr NCOs POV where I work.

Regards


----------



## Pat in Halifax

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Twenty years on and we're still waiting for some form of NCM PD. I don't think it's fair to count the trade or leadership courses that we all take. They're not really any different than the common courses for the Officers. We had a golden opportunity to rework the old OPDP programme into something for NCMs. There could have been generous time lines coupled with specific milestones for each rank level. IE: GSK to proceed from Cpl to MCpl, MilLaw for MCpl to Sgt etc. Most, if not all of the OPDP were quite suited to NCM progression. Now that OPME is no longer, *I despair that it will be many more years before an equivalent programme for NCMs is put forward.*



It may be closer than you think - do not dispair. There are equivalancies as well. It is hoped that much of the confusion will be cleared up shortly.


----------



## wesley12

Nerf herder said:
			
		

> Well, I registered today for the winter session.
> 
> No doubt ill get rejected for a Pte in Kingston yet again, even though I registered meer moments agfter registration opened.
> 
> It's been the trend as of late, at least from most Snr NCOs POV where I work.
> 
> Regards



I personally enrolled at the top of the day, 08:10 (The system didn't seem to open until then), and I'm hoping I grabbed two of them.  I'm just a corporal myself, but you're right, I've picked up and finished with honours three this year alone.  Though it is a first come first served system regardless of rank, and in the three that I've completed it was across the board more higher ranks that were dropping out and wasting spots than the lower ranks.  I'm not saying in any way that means that we deserve it any more, but I fully support the idea of a merit system wherein your eligibility for courses is determined by your consistency and scores in  the ones you've already done.  Offer the DCE001 and 002 scores as the marker which determines eligibility for future courses, those who have been enrolled and have failed or dropped out should be bottom of the list in the registration lists.  That's just my opinion.

Good luck and hopefully I'll see you in the course(s)!


----------



## Franko

3RCR said:
			
		

> I personally enrolled at the top of the day, 08:10 (The system didn't seem to open until then), and I'm hoping I grabbed two of them.  I'm just a corporal myself, but you're right, I've picked up and finished with honours three this year alone.  Though it is a first come first served system regardless of rank, and in the three that I've completed it was across the board more higher ranks that were dropping out and wasting spots than the lower ranks.  I'm not saying in any way that means that we deserve it any more, but I fully support the idea of a merit system wherein your eligibility for courses is determined by your consistency and scores in  the ones you've already done.  Offer the DCE001 and 002 scores as the marker which determines eligibility for future courses, those who have been enrolled and have failed or dropped out should be bottom of the list in the registration lists.  That's just my opinion.
> 
> Good luck and hopefully I'll see you in the course(s)!



First come first serve?

Try going on and registering four or five times and not getting picked up for any at all.....and it's imperative that Snr NCOs get them done, and dropping out is only allowed if the CO writes it off (which is never BTW). I was on a career course and was still working on an OPME in my off hours.

Then you turn around and talk to friends on other bases and sure as shit, Pte Bloggins gets the course.

Hope you have the same attitude when promotions are being judged during merit boards on a measly course and you can't get any at all.

Regards


----------



## Canadian.Trucker

I completed an OPME while in Afghanistan FFS.  Was it easy?  Hell no, but she got done.  I'm not trying to say that doing one in the off hours or fitting it around a busy schedule isn't a pain, just that it is possible to do it.

As for the DCE001 and 002, honestly if anyone pulls out off either one of them they deserve a swift kick in the pills.  I finished both within 2 days just reading in between writing patrol orders and exercise instructions.  They're not exactly hard.

P.S. The above is not directed at anyone in specific or any particular posts, just my own ranting at my own experiences.


----------



## Rheostatic

Nerf herder said:
			
		

> dropping out is only allowed if the CO writes it off (which is never BTW).


 Is it possible to withdraw between the time the courses are loaded and the course start date?

Is it a bad idea to register for more than one course in order to ensure a member is loaded on at least one?


----------



## Canadian.Trucker

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> Is it possible to withdraw between the time the courses are loaded and the course start date?
> 
> Is it a bad idea to register for more than one course in order to ensure a member is loaded on at least one?


Not sure about the answer to your first question, but in answer to your second.  If you register in multiple courses then you had better be prepared to do all courses.  I registered for two courses for this Fall, and while I now regret this decision because of my schedule, I am working through both of them because I took it upon myself to register in both.


----------



## csharding

I haven't seen the CANFORGEN for the new OPME program, but does anybody know how it will work if you have some of the old OPME courses done?  I will have 5/6 completed at the end of the winter term.  Will I get credit for those 5 or do I start from scratch?  Might be worthwhile to sign up for my last OPMe and knock out the last 2 at the same time.
Sh


----------



## Jarnhamar

Perhaps the new courses should;

be offered to NCOs and above only

require an approved memo from a members chain of command (stating at the least why they want the courses)

get more staff/support to handle the admin.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Perhaps the new courses should;
> 
> be offered to* NCOs* and above only
> 
> require an approved memo from a members chain of command (stating at the least why they want the courses)
> 
> get more staff/support to handle the admin.



Guess you meant to say SNCO'S


----------



## Jarnhamar

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Guess you meant to say SNCO'S



Sergeants and above yes.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Guess you meant to say SNCO'S





			
				ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Sergeants and above yes.


Sergeants _are_ the only Snr NCOs. Everything above that rank are Officers, Warrant or Commissioned


----------



## Franko

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Perhaps the new courses should;
> 
> be offered to NCOs and above only
> 
> require an approved memo from a members chain of command (stating at the least why they want the courses)
> 
> get more staff/support to handle the admin.



That would alleviate the individuals who enrole and either don't need them at this point in their career or the ones that are enroling and then dropping out without any repercussions. IE- Pte and Cpls.

Regards


----------



## Journeyman

Too funny; you guys are talking about *Officer* Professional Military Education, right? And how those Pte/Cpls should be restricted.


----------



## winnipegoo7

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that RMC offered the OPME courses to anyone. I mean that any CF member could have done up an ILP and then registered with RMC directly (as opposed to the OPME program) and taken the OPME courses (The last 4 courses anyways). Then do a prior learning assessment through OPME.

If I needed the courses, that is what I would have done.


----------



## jeffb

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Too funny; you guys are talking about *Officer* Professional Military Education, right? And how those Pte/Cpls should be restricted.



And as long as OPME's count as a point at merit boards they will de facto be NCM/NCO professional education. Getting rid of OPME's or whatever they are replaced with, as a point at the merit boards and replacing them with a NCM/NCO professional development system would alleviate much of the registration problems.


----------



## Journeyman

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> If I needed the courses, that is what I would have done.


 Yes, the program is open to anyone. While you have a cunning short-cut to stick-handle around the process, RMC simply forwards their registrations to the OPME office and you wait in line like everyone else....except you've now added one or two people to the bureaucratic loop.

And thanks jeffb, I actually understand the system and how PERs work. I just thought it was funny that one level of NCM was deciding how to circumscribe another level in a program originally developed for neither group.

Your sense of humour may vary.


----------



## Infanteer

Going off what I heard from the guy at CDA responsible for this, OPME should be done as of April 2013.  From then on, CFJOD (Junior Officer Development) program will be an online, professional (ie, non-academic) development program for Officers at the DP 2 level while the NCM program will be developed separately.


----------



## DonaldMcL

The question still remains... what about those who aren't quite finished the OPMEs... I myself have 2 courses left, one of which being the cheapo-easy ones. Do I rush and finish a dying program in the winter semester or wait it out?


----------



## winnipegoo7

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Yes, the program is open to anyone. While you have a cunning short-cut to stick-handle around the process, RMC simply forwards their registrations to the OPME office and you wait in line like everyone else....except you've now added one or two people to the bureaucratic loop.



If I am in the BMASc program and I apply for PSE 402 (which is offered through RMC's distance learning http://www.rmc.ca/aca/dcs-dep/co-cc-12-13-eng.asp) RMC would send my registration to the OPME office?


----------



## Journeyman

If it is for claiming OPME credit, yes.


----------



## armyvern

Nerf herder said:
			
		

> Well, I registered today for the winter session.
> 
> No doubt ill get rejected for a Pte in Kingston yet again, even though I registered meer moments agfter registration opened.
> 
> It's been the trend as of late, at least from most Snr NCOs POV where I work.
> 
> Regards



I know the feeling; I have one left to do and have attempted to get loaded onto it for the past 3 years --- every session - immediately after registration opens.

Haven't got the f'n thing yet, but 2 Cpls I work with did (one registered AFTER I did - go figure that "first come first served" isn't always true). Far from impressed.


----------



## Infanteer

BobSlob said:
			
		

> The question still remains... what about those who aren't quite finished the OPMEs... I myself have 2 courses left, one of which being the cheapo-easy ones. Do I rush and finish a dying program in the winter semester or wait it out?



AFAIK, there was plans to release a CANFORGEN describing what OPME credits translate into CFJOD credits - some of the 6 OPMEs are directly translatable into one of the 7 CFJOD courses.


----------



## dimsum

Infanteer said:
			
		

> AFAIK, there was plans to release a CANFORGEN describing what OPME credits translate into CFJOD credits - some of the 6 OPMEs are directly translatable into one of the 7 CFJOD courses.



So to confirm, the people who have completed OPME will *still* have to do bits of the CFJOD?


----------



## MedCorps

When I read the BN from CDA it said that if you have COMPLETED the OPME programme then you will not be required to undergo any additional courses. 

MC


----------



## navymich

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Yes, the program is open to anyone. While you have a cunning short-cut to stick-handle around the process, RMC simply forwards their registrations to the OPME office and you wait in line like everyone else....except you've now added one or two people to the bureaucratic loop.



I have done a couple OPME courses this way (going through RMC due to my ILP).  There is no waiting in line by registering for the course through RMC.  There are a limited number of spots, but I have signed up even a week into when the registration has opened and still gotten in.  It is indicated on the RMC portal how many spots are left and that number will go down by one once you submit your registration.


----------



## Infanteer

Dimsum said:
			
		

> So to confirm, the people who have completed OPME will *still* have to do bits of the CFJOD?



No.  CFJOD will equal an OPME qual.


----------



## AD

Is there any way you can let us in on what these 7 courses are? I'll have 5/6 done when the programme is scrapped and it would be nice to kinow how bad I'll be getting screwed.


----------



## Jarnhamar

> I'll have 5/6 done when the programme is scrapped and it would be nice to kinow how bad I'll be getting screwed.


I have it on good authority that you'll get whatever money this course costed you back.


----------



## Canadian.Trucker

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I have it on good authority that you'll get whatever money this course costed you back.


I doubt there's need for the sarcasm.  Think about it this way, we'd all be a little ticked if we were on a 12 week course at week 10 and suddenly told "hey, we're changing this course, so you guys are going to have to redo everything you've done."

Granted that's a worst case scenario, but who knows at this point.  It's a wait and see game.


----------



## Journeyman

Canadian.Trucker said:
			
		

> I doubt there's need for the sarcasm.


  rly:    You _do_ know this is army.ca, right?


----------



## wesley12

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I know the feeling; I have one left to do and have attempted to get loaded onto it for the past 3 years --- every session - immediately after registration opens.
> 
> Haven't got the f'n thing yet, but 2 Cpls I work with did (one registered AFTER I did - go figure that "first come first served" isn't always true). Far from impressed.



Which course is it that you're having such a hell of a time getting?


----------



## dapaterson

Canadian.Trucker said:
			
		

> Think about it this way, we'd all be a little ticked if we were on a 12 week course at week 10 and suddenly told "hey, we're changing this course, so you guys are going to have to redo everything you've done."



In '92 I recall an infantry 2Lt, keen and eager to repeat phase 2 following a severe injury in the last week of the course the year before.

About a week into the course, he was hauled out of a lecture, told that his (reserve) unit had been re-rolled, and told to get his "[Expletive] artillery [expletive] out of the Infantry School and over to the [expletive] artillery school where it belonged."  (Language has been cleaned up - the Sgt of The RCR who delivered the speech was a master of profane language, and I would do the lyrical nature of his extemporaneous outburst a disservice were I to attempt to recreate it from memory).


However:  As we've already done one transition - from OPDP to OPME - where everyone got credit for what they had already completed, and only had to fill in the blanks, I'm reasonably confident in stating that the "old" courses that map against the "new" courses will be grandfathered; if you've got 5/6 OPME done you'll likely have, at worst, two more courses to complete under the new system.

My understanding is that the new system will be briefed at the CF Professional Development Council later this month; I suspect more details should be trickling out by late November...


----------



## Canadian.Trucker

Journeyman said:
			
		

> rly:    You _do_ know this is army.ca, right?


You mean this isn't the village people look-a-like festival?  Dang it!


----------



## DAA

There is actually a PowerPoint presentation available at the CDA site on the DWAN regarding the new CFJOD program.  I will post the DWAN link first thing in the morning......

In the mean time, have a read  ---->  http://www.rmc.ca/aca/dcs-dep/index-eng.asp


----------



## dimsum

DAA said:
			
		

> There is actually a PowerPoint presentation available at the CDA site on the DWAN regarding the new CFJOD program.  I will post the DWAN link first thing in the morning......
> 
> In the mean time, have a read  ---->  http://www.rmc.ca/aca/dcs-dep/index-eng.asp



Any chance of sending the PPT directly for us people sans DWAN?


----------



## DAA

As promised, here is the DWAN link to the PowerPoint presentation regarding the new program.

http://cda.mil.ca/step/services/officer/documents/CDABriefonCFJODforWebsite13Aug12-English_NEW.ppt#720,4,CFJOD


----------



## wesley12

For those of you who are NCM's and won't be finished the program this winter but are somewhere in the process, I wrote them asking what would happen saying:

"I am wondering how the NCM's recognition/completion of the OPME program will proceed forwards.  I see on the homepage of the OPME site the statement, "The CANFORGEN message will also address the transitional measures that will be put in place for officers who are in the process of completing the OPME Programme," however I'm not an officer, so how will the plan move forward with me?  Will I still be able to complete it?  Will it still show on my MPRR's?  At this point even if I landed both of the courses I applied for I still would be one course shy of the full certificate.  Can I still somehow complete it and have it count on my MPRR's even if it is on my own dime?"

Their response was:

"Hello,
                I’m sorry, I don’t know.  All of that information has not yet been determined.
Regards,
Adrian Hau

OPME Programme Representative | Représentant de la programmation PEMPO
Royal Military College of Canada | College Royal Militaire du Canada"

Hopefully they'll take us into consideration, please post if you hear any official plans to that nature.


----------



## DAA

I don't believe the information would nor could be removed from MPRR's.  To do so, would wipe out the data source and impact not only on NCMs but more specifically the Officers.  Officers who completed some of the OPME Crses will no doubt be afforded conversion of some of these credits towards the CFJOD program as part of the transition process, to what extent, who knows.  Based on that alone, I am sure that something similar would have to be done for NCMs once the NCM PD program is rolled out.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Just to clarify something-There is no "NCM PME" Program persee though the term is being loosely thrown around in the absence of anything better for now. There is a trial in place now through Algonquin College which combined with granted credits from BMQ and experience as an NCM will give the candidate first year credit for 9 of 13 credits toward a General Arts and Science Diploma. I believe the term quoted from the CDA presentation is "...ladder into the second year of GASc..." The next look will be the QSP reviews of ILP and ALP (ALP is 'planned' to go to a pure DL by the way) to see if any other credits can be granted for the second year of GASc. CDA is now doing briefs on this (NCM specific) and I am sure it is soon coming to a Base near you. I am not sure how the Army is expediting the sharing of this info but the AF and RCN have stood up specific offices (MARLANT and MARPAC for example now have NCM PD Coordinators recently stood up) to get this info out. For MARLANT (and in my eyes that includes Shearwater and LFAA personnel) something should come out in the next 2-3 weeks with all the info from the CDA brief as well as some MARLANT specific initiatives (Toastmasters, SLT tutoring, potential for OST Business Communications crs etc). 
Just give me time-I am getting old, my head is full of 30 years of engineering shit and what's the adage - "Learning these new ropes is like trying to drink from a fire hose"!!!
Again, stand by-some info is coming VERY soon (if it hasn't reached some of you already) -promise

Pat


----------



## dapaterson

CANFORGEN 218/12 CMP 101/12 011212Z NOV 12
CANADIAN FORCES JUNIOR OFFICER DEVELOPMENT (CFJOD) PROGRAMME
UNCLASSIFIED


REFERENCES: A. CANFORGEN 092 01 ADMHRMIL 052 221200Z AUG 01 

B. A-P9-050-000/PT-01 (1), MANUAL OF INDIVIDUAL TRAINING AND EDUCATION, VOLUME 1, SUPPLEMENT - CANADIAN FORCES INDIVIDUAL TRAINING AND EDUCATION SYSTEM GLOSSARY 

C. CF MIL PERS INSTRUCTION 08/06 DATED 10 MAY 2006 


AS OUTLINED AT REF A, THE OFFICER PROFESSIONAL MILITARY EDUCATION (OPME) PROGRAMME IS A COMBINED DEVELOPMENT PERIOD (DP)1 AND DP2 PROGRAMME THAT WAS INTRODUCED IN JANUARY 2002 TO MEET THE DP2 PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT REQR FOR ALL CF REGULAR AND RESERVE FORCE OFFICERS 

AS A RESULT OF A CRITICAL OPME REVIEW, THIS PROGRAMME WILL CEASE TO BE DELIVERED EFFECTIVE 30 APRIL 2013, AND IT WILL BE REPLACED BY THE CANADIAN FORCES JUNIOR OFFICER DEVELOPMENT (CFJOD) PROGRAMME. THE FOLLOWING CHANGES HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED SO AS TO REDUCE THE COURSE DURATION AND COST, AND ALIGN THE CURRICULUM TO CONTEMPORARY MILITARY REQUIREMENTS AS INDICATED IN THE NEW VERSION OF THE OFFICER GENERAL SPECIFICATION (OGS) PROGRAMME, ON WHICH THE CFJOD IS BASED 

KEY ELEMENTS OF THE CFJOD INCLUDE: 

FOCUS ON THE RECENTLY REVISED OGS-BASED REQUIREMENTS FOR OFFICER DP2, WITH RECOMMENDED COMPLETION OF THE CFJOD AFTER ACHIEVEMENT OF THE OPERATIONALLY FUNCTIONAL POINT (OFP). THE OFP IS DEFINED AT REF B AS THE POINT AT WHICH A CF MEMBER HAS ACHIEVED THE QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS/OCCUPATION TRAINING FOR FIRST EMPLOYMENT IN AN OCCUPATION 

DELIVERY VIA DISTANCE LEARNING THROUGH DNDLEARN 

THE NEW CFJOD WILL INCLUDE SEVEN COURSES THAT ARE NEITHER UNIVERSITY LEVEL, NOR ELIGIBLE FOR UNIVERSITY CREDIT. IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT THESE COURSES BE COMPLETED IN THE FOLLOWING SEQUENCE: 

CFJOD 1 - STAFF DUTIES 

CFJOD 2 - ENABLE THE FIGHTING FORCE 

CFJOD 3 - LAW AND MILITARY JUSTICE 

CFJOD 4 - LEADERSHIP AND ETHICS 

CFJOD 5 - OPERATIONS 

CFJOD 6 - CANADIAN MILITARY HISTORY 

CFJOD 7 - SUPPORT THE INSTITUTION 

IN ORDER TO FACILITATE A MANAGED TRANSITION FROM THE FORMER OPME PROGRAMME TO THE NEW CFJOD PROGRAMME, ALL OPME COURSES WILL BE DELIVERED FOR TWO MORE SESSIONS, THE FALL 2012 SESSION FROM SEPTEMBER TO DECEMBER 2012 AND THE WINTER 2013 SESSION FROM JANUARY TO APRIL 2013. OPME COURSES FOR THESE LAST TWO SESSIONS WILL REMAIN AVAILABLE TO NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS (NCM), BUT PRIORITY WILL BE GIVEN TO OFFICERS, IAW REF C 

NEW CFJOD COURSES WILL ONLY BE AVAILABLE TO OFFICERS AND WILL BE INTRODUCED AS FOLLOWS: 

1 JUNE 2013 - TWO COURSES 

1 SEPTEMBER 2013 - TWO COURSES 

1 APRIL 2014 - REMAINING THREE COURSES 

CFJOD EQUIVALENCY. OFFICERS WHO DO NOT COMPLETE THE OPME OR CFJOD PROGRAMMES IN THEIR ENTIRETY CAN COMPLETE THE CFJOD EQUIVALENCY PROGRAMME WITHOUT HAVING TO CONTEND WITH A TIME LIMIT, SO LONG AS THEY COMPLETE ANY COMBINATION OF SIX COURSES FROM THE CFJOD, THE OPME OR THE OFFICER PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME (OPDP). OFFICERS WHO DO SO WILL RECEIVE CREDIT AND A CERTIFICATE FOR THE CFJOD PROGRAMME, SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: 

MUST COMPLETE EITHER OPDP ON DEFENCE ORGANIZATION AND ESTABLISHMENT OR DCE 001 (DEFENCE MANAGEMENT) OR CFJOD 7 - SUPPORT THE INSTITUTION 

MUST COMPLETE EITHER OPDP ON MILITARY LAW OR DCE 002 (MILITARY LAW) OR CFJOD 3 - LAW AND MILITARY JUSTICE 

MUST COMPLETE EITHER HIE 208 (CANADIAN MILITARY HISTORY) OR CFJOD 6 - CANADIAN MILITARY HISTORY 

MUST COMPLETE EITHER PSE 402 (LEADERSHIP AND ETHICS) OR CFJOD 4 - LEADERSHIP AND ETHICS, AND 

MUST COMPLETE ANY TWO OTHER CFJOD, OPME OR OPDP COURSES 

OPTION FOR NCMS. NCMS WHO HAVE COMPLETED A MINIMUM OF ONE UNIVERSITY-LEVEL OPME (HIE 208, HIE 275, POE 206 OR PSE 402) WITH THE INTENTION OF COMPLETING THE CERTIFICATE PROGRAM WILL HAVE THE OPTION OF TAKING EQUIVALENT COURSES AT THE ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE OF CANADA (RMCC). COURSES WILL BE OFFERED ON AN AS-AVAILABLE BASIS, WITH PRIORITY GOING TO STUDENTS IN A DEGREE PROGRAM. NCMS WILL BE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT AN INDIVIDUAL LEARNING PLAN (ILP), APPLY FOR ADMITTANCE TO RMCC, PAY FOR THE COURSE, AND REQUEST REIMBURSEMENT AFTER SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THEIR COURSE. ONCE ALL COURSE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED, THE OPME CERTIFICATE WILL BE AWARDED. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON RMCC COURSES THAT MEET THE OPME REQUIREMENTS ARE AVAILABLE AT THIS LINK HTTP://WWW.RMC.CA/ACA/DCS-DEP/FTL/RMCCMOPM-CCMRSPEM-ENG.ASP 

COMMAND AND CONTROL OF THE CFJOD PROGRAMME WILL BE EXERCISED BY THE CANADIAN FORCES LEADERSHIP AND RECRUIT SCHOOL (CFLRS) SAINT-JEAN ON BEHALF OF THE CANADIAN DEFENCE ACADEMY (CDA). CFLRS RESPONSIBILITIES INCLUDE THE COORDINATION OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND DELIVERY OF ALL CFJOD COURSES 

THE PRIOR LEARNING ASSESSMENT AND RECOGNITION (PLAR) PROCESS WILL CONTINUE AS AN ALTERNATE PATHWAY TO ACHIEVING THE COMPETENCIES ASSOCIATED WITH CFJOD. CDA HEADQUARTERS WILL WORK CLOSELY WITH ALL ENVIRONMENTS TO ENSURE THAT THE PLAR PROCESS PROVIDES AN EQUIVALENCY FOR TRAINING, EDUCATION OR EXPERIENTIAL LEARNING GAINED THROUGH OTHER MILITARY TRAINING OR CIVILIAN COURSES. MORE INFORMATION ON THE PLAR IS AVAILABLE AT HTTP://CDA.MIL.CA/J3OPS/MILEQUIV/PLAR-ENG.ASP 

UPDATES ON CFJOD WILL BE PROVIDED AS THE DEVELOPMENT OF COURSES PROGRESSES. ADDITIONAL DETAILS INCLUDING A FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS PAGE ARE AVAILABLE ON THE DWAN AT HTTP://CDA.MIL.CA/STEP/SERVICES/ OFFICER/OFFICER-ENG.ASP 

QUESTIONS TO BE DIRECTED TO (PLUS SIGN)CDA.CFJOD-POSFC(AT SIGN)CDA-ACD(AT SIGN)KINGSTON ON THE DWAN OR TO CDA-CFJOD-POSFC(AT SIGN)FORCES.GC.CA ON THE INTERNET 

SIGNED BY RADM A. SMITH, CMP


----------



## brihard

Thanks for posting. Somehow I missed seeing that one yesterday at the office.

I know it's a separate initiative, but this seems the logical place to ask: Any new word on the roll out of NCMPME? I've seen nothing since the reasonably comprehensive planning stage .pdf that was posted here a year or so back.


----------



## Infanteer

The last I got (from the CWO running it) was that it was still, essentially, in the conceptual stage.


----------



## ModlrMike

Infanteer said:
			
		

> The last I got (from the CWO running it) was that it was still, essentially, in the conceptual stage.



It's been in the conceptual stage for 20 years, FFS! When I was an MS in 1995 they were touting NCMPD and NCM 2020. It's now 2012 and we appear to be no further along.


----------



## dapaterson

Remember, PERs award points for leading change, not achieving it.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

When I am back at my desk Monday, I will start posting info that I have just started briefing to MARLANT personnel regarding NCM PME/PD and may actually start another thread (is that okay Mod(s)?) specifying NCM rather than O PME. To clarify one thing now, NCM PME is in place and has been for quite some time. NCM PME is covered off in the 5 DPs starting with BMQ through PLQ, ILP, ALP, SLP and NCMELP. OPMEs is an officer program at THEIR DP2. They were introduced to the NCM ranks because of a societal change within the CF for NCMs desiring to achieve education into the post secondary level. A Diploma in Arts and Science Program (Community College level) is being rolled out through Algonquin College and a franco college in Montreal (name escapes me on this Saturday afternoon). This program has also been 'blessed' by several other institutions across the country including MUN and Durham to name two.
ModlrMike and others, though I understand the frustration, comments like that are a slap in the face to those who have been slugging it out through the bureaucracies and red tape associated with this kind of thing. I recommend you talk to your CoC. I have to assume the Army and Airforce have NCM PME/PD Reps. In the Navy, we have a grand poopa in Ottawa who is part of the NCM PD WG (only 5 members with CDA chairing) and three regional Chiefs; MARPAC, MARLANT and NAVRES. I happen to be the MARLANT one. I do know that I confer with my Airforce and Army counterparts on occasion as each of us has our own area of knowledge. There is a brief from CWO XXXXXX at CDA that I HIGHLY recommend you look for. I know it is NOT on the CDA DIN site but, again, I will look around Monday and see what I can find.
As I said in an earlier post, hang in there. I actually dropped EVERYTHING else on my plate last week to get this presentation done and out to my various counterparts as I found I was starting to spend over half my day answering questions from people on information which was intended to be covered in EC briefs. Keep in mind that some of this stuff is new to us supposed SMEs but I know for any questions I get, if I can't answer, I try to find out who can. I actually spent all of Friday morning with a PSO talking about civilian equivalency and financial assistance questions I get the most.
As I said, Monday, I will create a new thread specifically for NCM PME and get things out to you. Bare in mind though, this is the internet. Should you see something I post, confirm through your own EC or Regional Rep. Though I wont post names here, if you are unaware who your EC (Army, Navy, Airfarce) NCM PME/PD coordinator is, PM me.
For anyone with access to the DIN this weekend, I recommend this as a good starting point-especially the ROD for the WG meetings:
http://cda.mil.ca/step/services/ncm/index-eng.asp

Pat


----------



## brihard

Thanks Pat

For clarity, I wasn't trying to blow off PLQ / ILQ / ALQ as not counting as NCM PD/PME. I was referring to the new system that in the past year we've been told shall be rolling out soonish. My (possibly flawed) recollection suggested that the various DP levels would be augmented by some courses not dissimilar from how the new version of the officer PME will function. Not accreddited university credit courses, but still academic and distinct from 'career courses' of we think of them at this time.

I'll await what you've got patiently and with interest.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

What you say is not unusual. What you are saying is what I myself believed a year ago. I believe it is DCE 001 and 002 of the OPME which are covered off in ALP with 2 others (atleast) by the time one reaches SLP. Unfortunately, the wide spreading of misinformation for an OPME-like NCMPME grew it's own legs. There is a one year full time program for snr. CWOs/CPO1s with 6 in house in Kingston right now. These are generally SP'd personnel moving into key posits shortly. Whether this program will expand out beyond this specific group is another story. It indeed may but I doubt it will be any time soon. I suspect this is where the 'rumour' of an 'NCM PME' program came from. Keep in mind, it has always been possible to take post secondary courses and be reimbursed under either one of the two financial programs available.

Funny as it may seem, part of the presentation deals with how to disseminate the info and I actually incorporate into it that I intend to use limited social media and specifically this website!

Pat


----------



## Rheostatic

dapaterson said:
			
		

> OPTION FOR NCMS. NCMS WHO HAVE COMPLETED A MINIMUM OF ONE UNIVERSITY-LEVEL OPME (HIE 208, HIE 275, POE 206 OR PSE 402) WITH THE INTENTION OF COMPLETING THE CERTIFICATE PROGRAM WILL HAVE THE OPTION OF TAKING EQUIVALENT COURSES AT THE ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE OF CANADA (RMCC). COURSES WILL BE OFFERED ON AN AS-AVAILABLE BASIS, WITH PRIORITY GOING TO STUDENTS IN A DEGREE PROGRAM. NCMS WILL BE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT AN INDIVIDUAL LEARNING PLAN (ILP), APPLY FOR ADMITTANCE TO RMCC, PAY FOR THE COURSE, AND REQUEST REIMBURSEMENT AFTER SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THEIR COURSE. ONCE ALL COURSE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED, THE OPME CERTIFICATE WILL BE AWARDED. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON RMCC COURSES THAT MEET THE OPME REQUIREMENTS ARE AVAILABLE AT THIS LINK HTTP://WWW.RMC.CA/ACA/DCS-DEP/FTL/RMCCMOPM-CCMRSPEM-ENG.ASP


 I wonder, will previous reimbursement for university courses through an ILP preclude a member from being reimbursed for OPME courses?


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Rheostatic:
I am not sure exactly what you are asking. If the OPME equivalent courses match the intent with the info from the CANFORGEN, reimbursement for previous unrelated courses will have nothing to do with it.
Are you asking (for example) if I took a non OPME course through say Dal last year and now wish to take my last 2 OPME equivalent courses through RMC at my own expense to be  reimbursed after, will I be reimbursed?? If this is your question then the answer is yes, by all means.
Now if those previous courses are OPME equivalent through another institution and according to a PLAR are indeed equivalent then the answer is no-The CF will not pay you to take the same course twice (I don't think this is what you were asking though?)
Does this answer your question?

Pat


----------



## Rheostatic

To be more specific, can a member who has received money through _Education Reimbursement for the Primary Reserves_, for which there is an $8000 lifetime limit, still recieve reimbursement for OPME courses?


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Ah, I see.
 Right now, if you are at that cap and are a Res than I would dare say you may be SOL.
Dont' rule it out and talk to the PSO Office. You never know.


----------



## Old EO Tech

Brihard said:
			
		

> Thanks Pat
> 
> For clarity, I wasn't trying to blow off PLQ / ILQ / ALQ as not counting as NCM PD/PME. I was referring to the new system that in the past year we've been told shall be rolling out soonish. My (possibly flawed) recollection suggested that the various DP levels would be augmented by some courses not dissimilar from how the new version of the officer PME will function. Not accreddited university credit courses, but still academic and distinct from 'career courses' of we think of them at this time.
> 
> I'll await what you've got patiently and with interest.



You are not far off I think.  Looking at several SITREPS and discussion papers it seems clear that NCM education beyond the core DP system are going to be part of the updated NCM PME program.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/89637303/NCMPD-Modernization-SITREP-201-1

http://www.scribd.com/doc/58936896/Annex-B-24-June-DC



The modernization has 3 objectives

1. Modernize NCM PME
2. Create Academic Opportunities
3. Enable Occupational Certification

Personally I am excited about 2 and 3, as the way forward for NCM PME, as a EME NCM the topic of accreditation is often a hot topic and I am hoping that the branch buys in early to the Occupational Certification program.

And the idea of a DS Certificate and a AS Diploma is certainly a good way forward to replace the OPME program for NCM's, let's just hope that they make it a smooth process, and not fill it with burdensome administrative processes  :-/

Jon


----------



## wesley12

I got my notifications a couple days ago for those of you who are wondering/waiting confirmation on their courses.  I'm just a corporal and I'll have 4 of the OPME's finished before the program changes to the CFJOD, I'm glad to read that they're going to recognize those of us stuck in the middle and allow us to complete it through ILP's, however I've never done any courses with the RMCC directly (not through the OPME program), nor have I applied for an ILP before, does anyone know if application for admittance to the RMCC has any affiliated costs and if they would be covered by the ILP?  I only ask because I was under the impression that ILP's only covered course and supplies costs, and not anything with regards to registration and admittance to the institution itself.


----------



## agc

Check out the RMC Division of Continuing Studies web site:

http://www.rmc.ca/aca/ac-pe/ug-apc/dcs-dep/ar-ai-eng.asp


----------



## navymich

3RCR said:
			
		

> I got my notifications a couple days ago for those of you who are wondering/waiting confirmation on their courses.  I'm just a corporal and I'll have 4 of the OPME's finished before the program changes to the CFJOD, I'm glad to read that they're going to recognize those of us stuck in the middle and allow us to complete it through ILP's, however I've never done any courses with the RMCC directly (not through the OPME program), nor have I applied for an ILP before, does anyone know if application for admittance to the RMCC has any affiliated costs and if they would be covered by the ILP?  I only ask because I was under the impression that ILP's only covered course and supplies costs, and not anything with regards to registration and admittance to the institution itself.



I am currently registered as a Visiting Student at RMC due to the requirement of a few of their courses for my program.  Yes, the registration/admittance fees for RMC are covered and reimbursable on your ILP as long as you have it noted as a fee/cost.  Just make sure to add it in to your ILP in the appropriate section when you put it all together.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

3RCR said:
			
		

> I got my notifications a couple days ago for those of you who are wondering/waiting confirmation on their courses.  I'm just a corporal and I'll have 4 of the OPME's finished before the program changes to the CFJOD, I'm glad to read that they're going to recognize those of us stuck in the middle and allow us to complete it through ILP's, however I've never done any courses with the RMCC directly (not through the OPME program), nor have I applied for an ILP before, does anyone know if application for admittance to the RMCC has any affiliated costs and if they would be covered by the ILP?  I only ask because I was under the impression that ILP's only covered course and supplies costs, and not anything with regards to registration and admittance to the institution itself.



A little late in the OPME-game to be starting but nonetheless, best of luck. As already mentioned, scheduling and admissions info is available at the RMC site indicated. Also, you can get your ILP started on line at:
http://img-dcb-ioutpro.forces.mil.ca:88/ILP/engraph/login_e.asp
That said, the link appears off line at the moment. When it gets to the part about what your goal is, you can simply state that it is to complete the OPME Program.  Talk to your Unit EdO or Base PSO Office. Barring that, if you have anything you aren't sure of, PM me. You can also follow the NCM PD thread as I plan to put something up probably over the Holidays about exactly what you are doing as you are far from alone in this endevour.
Again, best of luck-with a full load of 4 courses, I hope you know, this will NOT be a cakewalk.

Pat


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Maybe I misread 3RCRs post, but I think he means he will have 4 of the OPMEs done when the switch happens, not that he is just starting and doing 4 at once.  If that is the case, he'll only have 2 crses to complete under the ILP way.


----------



## wesley12

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Maybe I misread 3RCRs post, but I think he means he will have 4 of the OPMEs done when the switch happens, not that he is just starting and doing 4 at once.  If that is the case, he'll only have 2 crses to complete under the ILP way.



Thanks guys!  Yes, Eye In The Sky is right I presently have DCE001, DCE002, HIE208, and PSE402 taken care of, and all I have remaining to do through RMC is HIE275 and POE206.  I have only been in the CF for barely 5 years now and I only learned about the OPME program last winter or I would have jumped on the bandwagon much earlier.  I'm glad that already having HIE208 and PSE402 will allow me to continue through the program with ILP's and distance learning.  Thanks again for your replies!

-3RCR


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Maybe I misread 3RCRs post, but I think he means he will have 4 of the OPMEs done when the switch happens, not that he is just starting and doing 4 at once.  If that is the case, he'll only have 2 crses to complete under the ILP way.


Got it! Next time, have coffee FIRST in the morning, then log onto Navy.ca!!


----------



## Eye In The Sky

;D


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## wesley12

dapaterson said:
			
		

> CANFORGEN 218/12 CMP 101/12 011212Z NOV 12
> CANADIAN FORCES JUNIOR OFFICER DEVELOPMENT (CFJOD) PROGRAMME
> 
> REFERENCES: A. CANFORGEN 092 01 ADMHRMIL 052 221200Z AUG 01
> 
> OPTION FOR NCMS. NCMS WHO HAVE COMPLETED A MINIMUM OF ONE UNIVERSITY-LEVEL OPME (HIE 208, HIE 275, POE 206 OR PSE 402) WITH THE INTENTION OF COMPLETING THE CERTIFICATE PROGRAM WILL HAVE THE OPTION OF TAKING EQUIVALENT COURSES AT THE ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE OF CANADA (RMCC). COURSES WILL BE OFFERED ON AN AS-AVAILABLE BASIS, WITH PRIORITY GOING TO STUDENTS IN A DEGREE PROGRAM. NCMS WILL BE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT AN INDIVIDUAL LEARNING PLAN (ILP), APPLY FOR ADMITTANCE TO RMCC, PAY FOR THE COURSE, AND REQUEST REIMBURSEMENT AFTER SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THEIR COURSE. ONCE ALL COURSE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED, THE OPME CERTIFICATE WILL BE AWARDED. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON RMCC COURSES THAT MEET THE OPME REQUIREMENTS ARE AVAILABLE AT THIS LINK HTTP://WWW.RMC.CA/ACA/DCS-DEP/FTL/RMCCMOPM-CCMRSPEM-ENG.ASP



For what it's worth guys, I did end up completing my OPME certificate and was awarded it in May of 2014.  Not to mention that a Master Corporal in my section is presently (April 2015) finishing off the last two that he needs to be issued his certificate.  The CANFORGEN does extend to those who were already involved in the system, and apparently there has been no official end date to that offer, so if you're and NCM who stopped halfway there it's worth finishing for the extra PER points alone!  Thanks for all the help from everyone in this section, particularly "dapaterson" whose post gave me the above reference to cite when applying for the certificate!


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