# Ways to Fail Basic



## jutes85 (15 Dec 2003)

Is keeping your kit and personal items clean and neat the most important part of Basic? Or can you also fail it in combat practice and physical training?


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## Michael Dorosh (15 Dec 2003)

It‘s all important.  Do your best at everything you do and stop worrying about beating the system.  You won‘t.


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## Michael OLeary (15 Dec 2003)

You can also fail by not putting the necessary time and attention into studying your classroom notes before tests and in not being prepared for the skill tests on weapons handling. Don‘t get distracted by the fact that instructors may be in your face each morning inspection over your kit. Extra hours on kit may make morning inspection less stressful, but putting those extra hours on kit instead of studying to prepare for written and practical tests will see you fail the course, average performance on inspections will not. As Mike Dorosh notes, a balanced focus on all things is the best approach.

Mike


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## chrisf (15 Dec 2003)

In short, you won‘t fail for having an unrolled strap on your webbing. You‘ll just get crap for it. You‘ll fail for not remembering the content of a lecture on NBCD.


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## Padraig OCinnead (15 Dec 2003)

I agree with Mike.

Having done Recruit School, Trades training (both 3‘s and 5‘s) and having been beasted at JLC/JNCO the most stressful part of all were the kit inspections. Hindsight 20/20 I wasted too much time on my kit. However fail too many PO‘s after having spent time mucking with your kit for the 25th time each evening instead of studying will get you nowhere. Balance is important, but just put up with the morning hassle, but do routine well, and keep the important aspects in focus. Study, PT and move everywhere fast.


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## stukirkpatrick (15 Dec 2003)

As long as you put a good effort into everything you do, you should not have to worry about being failed on basic.  The ‘modern‘ basic is more forgiving than what it used to be like, and I got the impression that the instructors will not fail you unless you are consistently a danger to yourself and others (i.e. weapons training) or if your attitude is poor.  

The real danger for going home is yourself.  Nobody on my basic course was kicked off for failing, but we lost about 8-9 people (out of forty-something) who voluntarily released, or were released for medical reasons.  The attitude to finish and do well is key.


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## 311 (15 Dec 2003)

Keeping your items clean is the most important item for any member. If your gas mask isn‘t fully clean, you may end up using it in its state...causing problems. You wouldn‘t eat with filthy KFS ect. Plus if you take pride of being in the CF, you will take pride in your uniform/kit.


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## Pte. Bloggins (15 Dec 2003)

I think the key thing about basic is attitude. Don‘t even THINK about failing, and you won‘t. It‘s a matter of perspective. As for tests, I don‘t know about regF but on mine if you failed a test you could take it again, and most everyone passed the second time. They‘re all multiple choice...not hard at all. The weapons handling you just have to pay attention, make sure you know all your drills and practice, practice practice. But most importantly...positive attitude!


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## 311 (15 Dec 2003)

be careful though, my test was * max sarcasim * FILL IN THE BLANK !! The tests are basically make sure you didn‘t sleep through the lectures.


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## OLD SCHOOL (15 Dec 2003)

You could ‘snap‘ and do the funky chicken on the shack floor. That would fail you and the 20 or so others that I have seen that happen to. Some can‘t handle the stress. Most can.


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (15 Dec 2003)

Four words.... GREYMAN GREYMAN GREYMAN GREYMAN


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (15 Dec 2003)

OOOPS grAyman. Sorry


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## Jungle (15 Dec 2003)

Let me get this straight: you are asking for ways to FAIL basic trg ??? Why don‘t you just stay home, and save us the paperwork.
Allright, here‘s some advice: keep the same attitude as here, you‘ll be given a return ticket in no time.


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## jonsey (15 Dec 2003)

I think he‘s asking so he can avoid those mistakes.


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## OLD SCHOOL (15 Dec 2003)

Jonsey, The ways to fail are numerous and would not fit on this page.

The way to graduate is simple. Do what you are told and give 100% at all times. Not unlike anything else in life. They will be taught left from right and even how to shower and clean themselves. Just pay attention is all we ask.

I had a troopie ask me once on the grenade range how he could fail. Can you believe that?     I said if you drop that ****in thing at my feet I will not only fail your ***  but if I live, I will kill you right ****in dead. Now don‘t be nervous.  :warstory:


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## Staff (16 Dec 2003)

The CFTS allows for a candidate to fail a maximum of three POs (Performance Objectives), with a retest after a minimum of twenty-four hours of contemplation time in between. Even if the retest is a pass, the highest mark you con receive is a Sixty. In most PCs (Performance Checks) there are critical elements that MUST be accomplished or the test is a fail. Some POs are considered more critical than others. An Infantryman that can‘t remember TOETs at all is not going to pass the course. I know for a fact that are clerks out there that are still unsure which end the bullets come out of. Jutes, you are sporting the old RCAF logo and list your interests as aviation, if you are going to be a pigeon, don‘t worry about it too much. The airforce trades that deal with aviation pretty much do away with anything remotely close to military bearing so as to ensure that you are not too stressed out to absorb the knowlege that is required for the proper care and maintenance of our aeroplanes.

If you ARE trying to fail, you could just "forget" to wind up the rubber bands one day.

True story; Abuddy of mine that is Staff in StJean told me that a female recruit who decided that she would just stay in bed one day, wasn‘t removed from training (not recoursed, not RTM, nothing), not even charged for AWOL. The moral of the story is, you‘ll have to try really hard to get kicked out of recruit school.


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## OLD SCHOOL (16 Dec 2003)

Stay in bed! LMAO!
In the old days we would have set it on fire.
She/he would have moved.


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## jutes85 (16 Dec 2003)

Yes, I am trying to fail Jungle. I‘m going into the military so i can waist 2 years of my life, don‘t get an education, and live in my parents house for the rest of my life............    Why would i ask a question like that?  :blotto:  

Staff, thanks for the info. It looks like all you basically have to do is listen in class.......no problem here, don‘t act nervous and keep everything neat and organized......although they still might find something wrong with it, but I can‘t do much about that.



> The airforce trades that deal with aviation pretty much do away with anything remotely close to military bearing so as to ensure that you are not too stressed out to absorb the knowlege that is required for the proper care and maintenance of our aeroplanes.


I don‘t quite understand that...........so what i learn in Basic pretty much has nothing to do with my trade?

I think with the state of our aircraft in the Forces, i‘m going to have no problem finding something to work on.


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## Garry (16 Dec 2003)

Jutes,

This advice, and a dollar, will get you a cup of coffee....   

When you get to Basic, I suggest two things:
1- work as hard as you can, as long as you must, and
2- sleep 8 hours a night.

You will find that you can work an awful lot longer, and harder, than you ever thought you could. Realise this, and never give up. I feel pretty confident that I am not alone in stating that I will put a LOT more effort into helping a trainee that is truly giving his or her all than I would give a slack individual.

Re sleep: I have been on a course or two, and early on realised that if I didn‘t get a minimum of 8 hours sleep a night, I simply didn‘t absorb all the information that I was expected to learn the next day. Note that there will be times when you will go several days without sleep, and weeks with a couple of hours sleep out of every 24. These times are called "the field", and are not basic training.

Many folk get behind on the non-essential stuff. For instance, your boots will NOT be "good enough" until at least half way through the course- do the best you can, but don‘t stay up all night working on your boots, not any other item of kit. Learn what you have to learn, do your best on your kit, then be properly contrite when your NCO blasts your boots- he‘s paid to do it, you‘re paid to listen. It‘s part of the training.

There have been a lot of folk go through basic, and they were all worried too...most made it.

Again, work as hard as you can, and sleep.

Lastly, if you ain‘t having fun, take a long look at how you‘re living.

Cheers-Garry


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## meni0n (16 Dec 2003)

How the ****  can you get 8 hours of sleep on basic? That is impossible. We went to sleep at 11pm and got up at 4:30am because PT is at 5am and everyone has to be ready by then. Wash, shave get dressed and at least get your bed in order because you‘ll have about 30 mins to prepare for inspection.


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## Pte. Bloggins (16 Dec 2003)

8 hours huh? Hmm....lights out at ll, reveille at 5 (at least)hmm...unless you count those rides in the ML (I guess that could add up)   
Correct me if I‘m wrong, but what I‘ve found with inspections on basic is that they decide before the inspection how you‘re going to do. If they‘re in a bad mood, you fail. If it‘s the first half of the course, everything‘ll still be crap. It‘s not until the second half that they start making you think that you‘re improving...


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## GrahamD (16 Dec 2003)

Just curious here, but from what I‘ve heard lights out is at 11pm, and wake up is at 5:30am, but that you are given at least a couple of hours personal time after dinner each evening where you are free to do what you want.  Is this time actually used by people as free time (watching t.v., reading, phone calls, etc.) or does everyone pretty much use that time to begin working on their kit, so that they can maximise on their sleep when 11pm rolls around.

The thing is, my main concern about basic is the lack of sleep.  I‘m wondering if you make the appropriate personal sacrifices ie (free time at luch [1.5 hours to eat? sounds like an opportunity for a 60 minute nap], and personal time at night) is it possible to stay fairly well rested?
Or do they basically find ways to keep you awake, no matter how hard you work to get ahead?


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## Pikache (16 Dec 2003)

Just meet your timings.


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## jutes85 (16 Dec 2003)

Do they care what trade you are going in? Because I don‘t think that AirForce Techs should learn battle tactics.


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## Garry (16 Dec 2003)

Jutes,

I‘ll temper my response due solely to your tender age and experience...however, the recruiter should have told you this:

EVERY serving Forces member is a Rifleman first, specialist second.

EVERY serving member must be ready to defend himself.

If you don‘t want to learn the very basic tactics, and aren‘t willing to maintain basic combat skills, go home: this is not the place for you.

Have a good day.

PS- I‘m currently Air Force.


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## chrisf (16 Dec 2003)

As a little explanation of why... unfortunately most warefare conducted today is "asymetrical warfare", a fancy term for guerilla warefare.

Just because you‘re 500 KM to the "rear" doesn‘t mean that a guerilla attack can‘t occur. That‘s why EVERYONE needs to know how to engage in combat. 

That being said, basic training isn‘t "battle tactics" so much as it‘s the eat-sleep-think-shoot-**** like a soldier stuff. You‘ll learn drill, military law, rank structure, military discipline, etc. You also get basic instruction in weapons handling (Just the service rifle, though the service rifle in and of itself is also a great education in responsibility). 

It‘s the SQ (Soldier Qualification Course), which you also have to do, where you learn the fun stuff. You can‘t tell me you don‘t want to fire off a machine gun???


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## OLD SCHOOL (16 Dec 2003)

It‘s the SQ (Soldier Qualification Course), which you also have to do, where you learn the fun stuff. You can‘t tell me you don‘t want to fire off a machine gun??? 


Depends who is standing in front of it.


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## jutes85 (17 Dec 2003)

> EVERY serving Forces member is a Rifleman first, specialist second. EVERY serving member must be ready to defend himself.


Yes, i know that i have to learn that, and that i‘m a soldier first, tech second. The recruiter just never told me that. What do you specialize in the AF? I‘m guessing you are stationed in Cold Lake.

When you mean rifle, do you mean the C7? By the way, i‘d love to get my hands on a machine gun and try it out.   :fifty:   

My recruiter also told me that during or after basic, I have to pass some kind of Vechile training, is this true?


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## jonsey (17 Dec 2003)

Yes, the C7 is a rifle, thats why it‘s classified as an "assault rifle".


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## Enzo (17 Dec 2003)

Garry - 8 hrs? I was averaging 2-3hrs/night for the first couple of months. I‘m a bit of an insomniac (as opposed to nowadays where I enjoy checking the forums @ 0330). I stayed up by flashlight and worked on kit. Couldn‘t sleep anyway. then I wrote/read letters. That was my personal thing.

As for personal time. We had none for quite some time. I‘d have probably enjoyed St. Jean, but I never went there. Straight to Meaford and the tender care of all Infantry nco‘s for a combined QL 2/3. Good times.

Old School - You reminded me of a story our Warrant shared with us. When he was 17 going through basic, he erred and his Warrant made him sleep out on the parade square each night for a week. This was in winter time. Least he had some privacy for the night and could enjoy sleeping under the stars eh?   

Jutes - ....

.... stop overthinking this. Act and do. Meet your timings, you‘ll be fine. I‘m not so certain I want to see you "get your hands on a machine gun."


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## sauve (17 Dec 2003)

wow i can‘t wait til i get to basic i hope to go to st. jean that would be cool.


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## jutes85 (17 Dec 2003)

Still, what is this vehicle training we are supposed to go through?

I‘m asking these questions just to get an understanding of what Basic is all about, i‘m not worried about it, it is just better get an idea of what it is.


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## chrisf (17 Dec 2003)

Quite possibly they were referring to your 404, the military drivers lisence.


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## Pte. Bloggins (18 Dec 2003)

> Originally posted by GrahamD:
> [QB] Just curious here, but from what I‘ve heard lights out is at 11pm, and wake up is at 5:30am, but that you are given at least a couple of hours personal time after dinner each evening where you are free to do what you want.  Is this time actually used by people as free time (watching t.v., reading, phone calls, etc.) or does everyone pretty much use that time to begin working on their kit, so that they can maximise on their sleep when 11pm rolls around.
> 
> you‘ll actually find you wish you had MORE time to work on your kit....you‘d be surprised how much there is to do. tv? what‘s a tv? we got our civy crap locked up and didn‘t hear music for a month, until we ‘earned‘ our clock radios back. Everybody hummed and whistled all the time.
> ...


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## Slim (19 Dec 2003)

When they closed down Cornwallis they closed more than the base it seems...


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## Enzo (19 Dec 2003)

Bloggins - you ate?

Jutes - No worries, we had tv‘s in our rooms and so I hooked up my game console and we played Nintendo all the time (this was 1998). Our maid was a great help with the cleaning of the kit.


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## Pte.See (19 Dec 2003)

I‘m doing my basic now as a reserve. I have to be up at 0430 because I need time to wash my face, brush my teeth and put my hair back. Then we‘re doing PT until about 0615. It‘s mostly classrooms all day for now. But if you do start falling asleep, they do find ways to keep you awake-they‘re called push-ups! Then after dinner it‘s usually drill or classrooms. After that it‘s personal time, which is spent on your kit. And no matter what, you‘re always doing something wrong with your kit. So don‘t focus on it too much. Just do what you can on your kit. And have fun with your buddies. It‘s nice to laugh.


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## jutes85 (19 Dec 2003)

I‘m up at 0430 for work anyways, so I should be used to it.


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## Slacker (20 Dec 2003)

[No message]


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## jutes85 (20 Dec 2003)

I would not call any trade in the Forces a "geek trade". These "geeks" may be the only ones in a war that are there to repair your vehicle or aircraft, so I would get on their good side or they just might "forget" to tighten that last bolt.

And if i have a trade and you are just in the infantry, well, you better gaurd that base, cause sure in ****, the "geek" won‘t.


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## Staff (20 Dec 2003)

The vehicle training you will receive is your BDT in Borden. You will be qualified Civilian pattern Staff Car, Civilian Pattern Panel Van, Civilian Pattern Vehicles up to 1 Ton, Iltis, LSVW, and MLVW. Specialty and support equipment qualifications depend on your trade (i.e. Dozers for Engineers, Ammo Tracks for herbies, or those neat little go-carts the airforce has on the airfields if that is what you do.)

Slacker;     You‘ll do what you‘re told whether he‘s qualified with his weapon or not. Welcome to the military. BTW, you list yourself as civilian and 215(SigOp). Since when did the Rad-Ops at the guns all go civie ?


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## chrisf (20 Dec 2003)

On the subject of 215‘s, most of us are geeks. Of course, we‘re as armed as anyone else.


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## Slacker (21 Dec 2003)

[No message]


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## Slacker (21 Dec 2003)

Slacker;     You‘ll do what you‘re told whether he‘s qualified with his weapon or not. Welcome to the military. BTW, you list yourself as civilian and 215(SigOp). Since when did the Rad-Ops at the guns all go civie ? [/QB][/QUOTE]


Do you moderate on this board? If so then you know that the Civi rating is the board setup, not an entry of mine. Very impressed that you coud click on my profile and read though. Almost got some of the facts right.

As far as the "I‘ll do what I‘m told" part, is that the best you could come up with? Talk about typical Armydink comment    

Are you a civi? You should know every person learns basic infantry skill no. 1. Service weapon.


Sad, unoriginal, LOL at you too......


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## Slacker (21 Dec 2003)

[No message]


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## Slacker (21 Dec 2003)

[No message]


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## Spr.Earl (21 Dec 2003)

Gent‘s were are getting off Track!!

There are only 5 way‘s you can fail basic!

#1-Neglect your Kit!

#2-Fail your P.O.‘s!

#3-You fail to work well with in a Group!

#4-You fail to help other‘s who are less able than you!

#5-You are a BUDDY F%^&$R!

Oh Slacker I‘ve been a M/Cpl since 1980.
Why?
Because I like the real job as a Engineer and also I like teaching the new Sapper‘s what I have learnt when I get a chance and I also get to meet the new Generation who are going to take over from me.

So if I were you I would becareful whom you tell to go home and kick the dog!


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## Slacker (21 Dec 2003)

[No message]


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## Slacker (21 Dec 2003)

[No message]


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## Spr.Earl (21 Dec 2003)

Slacker,these Forum‘s are here to Educate and Inform those who wish to learn about the Force‘s,not to insult or denigrate those wishing to be enlightened.

 So I ask you to refrain from the insulting remark‘s from now on.
O.K.?


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## Slacker (21 Dec 2003)

[No message]


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## Spr.Earl (21 Dec 2003)

No BUD‘S!!!
If you can not restrain you self then don‘t post!

We here try not to insult each other but at time‘s some do and then recognise what the have done and applogise,I have even done it.
What it work‘s down to is self control!

Please abide by the forum rule‘s.


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## Matt0304 (21 Dec 2003)

Slacker, you crack me up man.  Thanks for the laugh.


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## Matt0304 (21 Dec 2003)

Spr.Earl - Are you a member of 6th field?


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## Spr.Earl (21 Dec 2003)

Was.
Now let‘s get back on topic folk‘s and be polite.


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## jutes85 (21 Dec 2003)

What exactly is included in your kit?


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## OLD SCHOOL (21 Dec 2003)

Spr. Earl... You must understand that Slacker can only come here with his smartass wisdom and lack of respect for his elders and peers as he would be run out of his unit with that ‘tude.

I could repair that attitude in a heartbeat... I do miss the life sometimes. You will notice that he is not an 031.


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## Garry (21 Dec 2003)

Holy smokes........

Old School and I agree on something...!!!!!!

Cheers-Garry


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## Slacker (22 Dec 2003)

As much as I would like to stay around and listen to lame old cliches from the Geritol gang...


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## McInnes (22 Dec 2003)

by the way.
DO NOT blade buddy on coarse, regardless of what Slacker may say.


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## OLD SCHOOL (22 Dec 2003)

Have not reached the rank of Geritol yet Slacker.
I‘m not that old and it is only from behind the computer that you can make such comments. Rest assured that I‘m still hard enough to throw you around like a rag doll. The only thing that would hold you together after 45 seconds with this old **** would be the uniform that someone mistakenly issued you.  :crybaby:   Of course this is all in good fun but I have a thousand notches on the stick with memories of little ****s like you. Lets go for a little run in the woods sometime.  :boring:


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## sgtdixon (22 Dec 2003)

It is not wise to call on ones elders, Who im shure could serve up most peoples rear ends on a platter to this day...


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## portcullisguy (23 Dec 2003)

I have no idea what would be in store for you, jutes.

I do know that you must do the basic (BMQ), and you will learn the C7 rifle and complete your personal weapons test #1.  Atfer that, I have no clue.

I don‘t even think air force do the SQ, I was told that‘s just for army types.

I would imagine, as was mentioned far earlier in this thread, that your main task of fixing/fueling/arming/whatever-you-do-with-them aircraft is what the military will spend most of their time and effort teaching you.

That said, I hear a rumour that air force types also have to do air field security, and this may involve some amount of patrolling and defensive ops, possibly even involving some infantry weapons such as the C9, C6, M203, etc.  But I am way out on a limb here, because I have no idea.

But I agree with the other sensible adivce already stated... keep your ears open, mouth in neutral, and try hard at everything they teach you.  Aim for a balanced approach, and try to remain the grey man.  It sounds like you won‘t have any trouble at all.


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## jutes85 (23 Dec 2003)

> I don‘t even think air force do the SQ, I was told that‘s just for army types.


What is SQ?

Also, for future purposes, since this is a forum, could you guys please put in brackets what the short form means? Like BMQ (Basic Military Qualification).

Thanks


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## Deleted member 585 (24 Dec 2003)

Slacker took his posts and scrammed... pity.

Jutes, the acronym "SQ" and it‘s meaning were mentioned on page 2 of this thread, twice, just above one of your posts.

Since this is a forum... (as you said), try reading it.  If you can‘t bear to read the posts in a thread you started, at least use the site‘s search function, or the function built into your browser to search for specific text on a page.

I won‘t cut the crust off your peanut-butter and jelly sandwich for you.

You‘ll get the hang of it.


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## Bert (24 Dec 2003)

This has been posted a few times but its is a great site for BMQ information.  Some info on common pitfalls and impossible manuevers in 
drill:

 http://salh.jfahy.net/


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## Thompson_JM (25 Dec 2003)

Dont Group Slacker into us REMF‘s 

guys with that kind of attitude wouldnt last in our Svc Bn either...


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## Doug VT (25 Dec 2003)

Asking how one can fail basic is a stupid question anyway.  And yes, there IS such a thing as a stupid question.  It seems as though it may have been just a set up for some crossfire hacking!


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