# PRE DEPLOYMENT STRESS



## SemperFidelis (27 Jul 2005)

Hey all...I was hoping someone could give me advice on how to deal with this situation...a friend of a really close friend of mine in the states tried to commit suicide due to pre-deployment stress (hes going to Iraq soon) and I just feel so helpless to my best buddy...I dont know what to say or do? I told him Ill be there for him anyway I can and whatever he needs Ill be there for him.  Appart from that, I dont know what to do or how to go about the situation.  Anyone been in this situation or dealt with it...that could give some advice?  If so that'd be greatly appriciated.. :'(


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## KevinB (27 Jul 2005)

:  Tell him to do it and get over with stop the grandstanding drama.
 Sorry I refuse to believe a trained soldier cannot effectively take his own life.  You are given many opportunities during training if you where so inclined.

 I'd chalk it up to ATTENTION seeking...
   Get him On Combat by Col Dave Grossman - read it, soldier on and STFU.


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## strongchristian (27 Jul 2005)

I disagree completely. He could have depression or other untreated issues, and this is now a situation which is pushing him overboard. He should go talk to a doctor ASAP.


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## SemperFidelis (27 Jul 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> :   Tell him to do it and get over with stop the grandstanding drama.
> Sorry I refuse to believe a trained soldier cannot effectively take his own life.   You are given many opportunities during training if you where so inclined.
> 
> I'd chalk it up to ATTENTION seeking...
> Get him On Combat by Col Dave Grossman - read it, soldier on and STFU.



ummm the book is called On Killing ....


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## SemperFidelis (27 Jul 2005)

He's in the phsych ward right now...this only happen Mon night....I dont know how to really approach my buddy (it was his friend who tried this) Im asking how to more deal with helping him get throug this , and help him to talk about it so he doesnt repress feelings or thoughts, ...how do I make sure that he stays open and communicative...I dont want s*it to hit his fan too if u catch my drift


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 Jul 2005)

No one on the internet can help you or your friend with this, he sounds like he/she is where he/she should be right now, let them look after it.


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## beltfeedPaul (27 Jul 2005)

If your buddy is unstable enough to try and take his own life because he has to do his job and deploy, hopefully a quick discharge is the outcome. For his sake, and the sake of others who may have to rely on him.


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## Sapper41 (27 Jul 2005)

My question is what are his peers and/or his chain of command doing about this matter, are they even aware.   I'm not sure what the US DAG process is like, but in Canada this guy would DAG redder than red (meaning undeployable) for even the suggestion of suicide.   I know his fellow soldiers deserve more than to have to carry this guy for the whole tour if he can barely function back home.   

That being said I'm happier than hell I've never had to go over seas for longer than 7 months and I've always had a good support system.   I'm glad we are protected from redeploying for at least a year instead of the US meat grinder were guys are already heading back for their second tour in Iraq.   I'm also a reservist which gives me the luxury of only going on tours that I actually put my hand up for...knock on wood.

The reality is we don't need an Army of canteen queens, I'm sorry your broken but the exit door is this way.   I feel bad for this guy, but he needs to look into the mirror and do a gut check either get all the way in or get all the way out.   Get him to see a Doc and if he is undeployable and the 'Army' broke him then Veterans Affairs should give him all the help he needs to get on with life.   

My two cents.

Chimo!


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## beltfeedPaul (27 Jul 2005)

Chimo, that is the difference between the CF and the US Army and the Marines. They don't have wet nurse nonsense protocols and assements to determine whether or not a soldier is ready to deploy. You sign up, you go. Thats our weakness, when I was in Cyprus 20 odd years ago, we had a number of guys sent back, "my wife left me" "my dog died" "I cant take painting rocks blue around the Ledra", whatever the excuse, some pandering new age padre or peckerhead 2LT was there to listen to the whine. My grandpa signed up in 1940,(artillery) was sent to England, and was there until almost 1946! Who in todays army would stand for that! Moral fibre is whats lacking.


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## Armymedic (27 Jul 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> :   Tell him to do it and get over with stop the grandstanding drama.
> Sorry I refuse to believe a trained soldier cannot effectively take his own life.   You are given many opportunities during training if you where so inclined.



I have to agree with Kevin..
The guy is threatening to end his life so that he doesn't have to go to Iraq where he might get killed...


My answer (and yes this is heartless but he is an adult who can make his own choices), quit being a coward and get on with one of them.



> My question is what are his peers and/or his chain of command doing about this matter, are they even aware.  I'm not sure what the US DAG process is like, but in Canada this guy would DAG redder than red (meaning undeployable) for even the suggestion of suicide.  I know his fellow soldiers deserve more than to have to carry this guy for the whole tour if he can barely function back home.



The US chain doesn't really care, particularly if this kid has never been there before. If he has, then he has a leg to stand on.


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## AmmoTech90 (27 Jul 2005)

SemperFidelis said:
			
		

> ummm the book is called On Killing ....



The book about killing is called On Killing.  The book KevinB is refering to is about combat and it's stress and is called On Combat.  See below.
http://www.killology.com/on_combat.htm


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## paracowboy (27 Jul 2005)

is anyone surprised that I agree with Kevin and the Doc?


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## SeanPaul_031 (27 Jul 2005)

I agree with Kevin and the Doc as well with this guy:


			
				beltfeedPaul said:
			
		

> hopefully a quick discharge is the outcome. For his sake, and the sake of others who may have to rely on him.



Do you think any soldier would want to have to be in a fox hole with this type of guy beside him?


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## Infanteer (27 Jul 2005)

Add me to the "Quit it with your angst and get your boots laced up" opinion....


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## SemperFidelis (27 Jul 2005)

AmmoTech90 said:
			
		

> The book about killing is called On Killing.   The book KevinB is refering to is about combat and it's stress and is called On Combat.   See below.
> http://www.killology.com/on_combat.htm




Thanks AmmoTech...will def. check that out!!


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## Lady From Hell (27 Jul 2005)

beltfeedPaul said:
			
		

> Chimo, that is the difference between the CF and the US Army and the Marines. They don't have wet nurse nonsense protocols and assements to determine whether or not a soldier is ready to deploy. You sign up, you go. Thats our weakness, when I was in Cyprus 20 odd years ago, we had a number of guys sent back, "my wife left me" "my dog died" "I cant take painting rocks blue around the Ledra", whatever the excuse, some pandering new age padre or peckerhead 2LT was there to listen to the whine.
> 
> Hi;
> 
> ...


 My grandpa signed up in 1940,(artillery) was sent to England, and was there until almost 1946! Who in todays army would stand for that! Moral fibre is whats lacking.


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## Bert (27 Jul 2005)

There will always be those that falter before and during deployment.   Unless you can
provide objective statisitics, WW2 and deployments since then have encountered the
same thing.   Thoughts certainly goes through everybody's head, but those that
falter due to lack of drive and commitment are in the minority.   Lady from Heck/H*ll, 
your comments seem subjective and exaggerated and I disagree with the "lack of
moral fibre" comment without more substanciation.   

However, I agree with the context.   Before joining and continuing a career in the
armed forces, it is by choice and commitment we serve operational needs including
deployments of varying duration.


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## Gunner98 (28 Jul 2005)

"I don't know how to really approach my buddy (it was his friend who tried this)."

Neither of them is any different than Sunday night, so you should not treat them differently.  Just be there for them, be prepared to listen and not second guess.

What a great bunch of supportive posters we have today.  If we tossed everyone out of the CF who had some mental health issues, the armouries and Bn lines would be a lot emptier.   

Contrary to what many of you are saying about, "the difference between the CF and the US Army and the Marines. They don't have wet nurse nonsense protocols and assessments to determine whether or not a soldier is ready to deploy."  The US has exactly the same pre-deployment screening process as we do. We borrowed the protocols from them, including the SF36 Screening Form.  Our Force Health Protection and Deployment Health Cell at CFHS are modelled after their's.  We, both, use a self-reporting pre- and post-deployment assessment. 

I am reading a whole lot of opinions about a person you never met from people without MD or PhDs after your names.  A warning, judge not unless you are prepared to be judged by the same criteria in the future.

Terry Copp from WLU studied Battle Stress from WWII and determined that more than 60% of Cdn trench occupants were scared out of their wits and never fired a shot.  Not something any of them are proud of but sad nonetheless.


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## KevinB (28 Jul 2005)

Gunner98 - please.

 Scared is one thing - I think a lot of us have been scared at times - but ACT.

If he has real problems - seek help, I made the call on the ATTENTION SEEKING based upon stats on male suicides - and the fact he was in the military.  

So basing it on a cry for attention - he has two options - dealing with the issue - hence my recomendation of 'On Combat'  or continuing to ignore it / shirk it.  Personally I dont buy the BS

 The Army is a volunteer org - you take the Queen's Shilling (- in this case Congress's Dime) your bought and paid for.


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## Gunner98 (28 Jul 2005)

KevinB - A little history lesson from the Juno Beach Centre.  http://www.junobeach.org/e/4/can-tac-med-exh-e.htm

Many exhaustion cases were ultimately labelled "chronic"; *psychiatrists reported that such men, inherently unsuited for combat, should have been weeded out before going overseas*. In Northwest Europe, senior officers took a harsher attitude to psychiatric casualties, perhaps influenced by a deepening reinforcements crisis that left many units understrength at one of the war's most critical stages. In the cases of 2nd Canadian Corps and 2nd Canadian Infantry Division, commanders refused to integrate psychiatric services into their medical organizations, instead emphasising stern disciplinary measures to deal with potential malingerers (Rawling, p. 199). Treatment of exhaustion cases was perhaps least satisfactory in the air force, where many aircrew suffering from battle-related traumatic stress were labelled as *"Lacking in Moral Fibre", or LMF,* and treated as disciplinary problems. 

The typical symptoms of exhaustion are described by Terry Copp, who notes that* 90% of diagnosed cases were among infantrymen, *a statistic no doubt influenced by air force attitudes concerning the "moral fibre" of its personnel. Copp writes: "The large majority of individuals diagnosed as suffering from Battle Exhaustion exhibited what the psychiatrists described as acute fear reactions and acute and chronic anxiety manifested through uncontrollable tremors, a pronounced startle reaction to war-related sounds, and a profound loss of self-confidence. The second largest symptomatic category was depression with accompanying withdrawal" (J. Terry Copp, "Battle Exhaustion and the Canadian Soldier in Normandy", in Marc Milner, ed., Canadian Military History: Selected Readings, 1993, p. 240). The incidence of battle exhaustion casualties in First Canadian Army reached crisis levels during the battles south of Caen in July 1944. In an infantry division of about 18,000 men, only a much smaller proportion, approximately 4500, served as front-line infantry. It was these men who sustained the great majority of the 200,000 Allied casualties in the Battle of Normandy. Casualty replacement schemes had been based on statistics derived from the Italian campaign which proved inapplicable to the nature of the fighting in Normandy. The result in the summer of 1944 was that sufficient reinforcements to support the periods of "double-intense" combat then taking place were not available. A dwindling number of infantrymen thus had to bear the task of driving the Germans out of the occupied territories. Many inevitably snapped under the strain. The crisis was only alleviated with the German defeat in Normandy, and although exhaustion casualties continued to occur, they did not do so in the same overwhelming numbers that had been seen in the aftermath of the assault on Verrières Ridge, for example.


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## Britney Spears (28 Jul 2005)

I question how much of the WWI/WWII research is applicable to modern warfare/combat. The demographics of the armies(volunteers vs conscripts), training methods, professionalization, support networks and resources availible to soldiers today are vastly different. The type of conflict is also very different. Is there any research on the mental health issues facing, say, 19th Century  British and French colonial armies? I don't know, but it seems to be that those(basically volunteer armies, often from lower class backgrounds, fighting a low tech enemy with ambivalent opinions on the home front) would be more applicable to our situation today than stats collected from Verdun or Stalingrad.


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## KevinB (28 Jul 2005)

Gunner98 - do you ever read my posts?

 Where is the relevance???? 

He has not deployed previosuly.  He is a volunteer - we don't even know his trade.  I question using your 60yr old data as well.

1) We have come a long way in preparing soldier for combat
2) There is a Large support network - use it STFU  - I've seen the CF head shrinkers, I am not embarrased to say.  Don't run from your problems it just compounds them.
3) Lets take off the warm fuzzies and remember warfighting is our #1.


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## SemperFidelis (28 Jul 2005)

You know what KevinB...yeah in the military warfighting is #1 but you forget we're all human too.  Accept that and respect it...otherwise, what the fuck are you fighting for in the first place?


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## Scoobie Newbie (28 Jul 2005)

"but you forget we're all human too"

I think he has respected that.   He of all people knows that the solider (the person) is the army's greatest asset and should be treated as such.   However there comes a time to put up or shut up and get the job done.

"There is a Large support network"
he's been around the PTSD block so why don't you sit back and listen and maybe you'll learn something on the way.

Not to put words in your mouth KevinB.


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## Barek (28 Jul 2005)

Alright, I think we all need to calm down and try to answer SemperFidelis questions instead of raggin on the guy. The guy got scared or depressed. It happens to people. Not everyone is cut out for the job and also, if you've ever talked or read articles from veterans you'd realise taht alot of them got scared/depressed too. It's part of being a soldier. You deal with it and get on with life or you don't and you quit the military. But don't act like all you should ever do is fight fight fight. Being a soldier means being human too, if you can't remember what you are fighting for then you shouldn't be fighting. Think of this..."falling isn't failing unless you don't get up". Basically, we all have our weak times, either we let them take over us or we get past them. Welcome to life, but there is no need to bash a guy you don't know. 

"All men are timid on entering any fight. Whether it is the first or the last fight, all of us are timid. Cowards are those who let their timidity get the better of their manhood."
- General George Patton Jr, "War as I knew it" 1947

So this guy freaks out and doesn't know where to turn. He makes a mistake, just like everybody else though more extreme and public, the question is...what does he do next? Give a guy the chance to prove he can overcome adversity before calling him a coward. I'll admit I wouldn't want to be in a foxhole with someone who is suicidal but then again, if he's shown that he has improved his character since then, it has only increased his character not lessened it. It is the response that I believe is most important. We all have shite to deal with in our lifes. How we responsed determines our character.Let the guy find help, which he is being in a physch ward. It does take someone of character to admit they need help. Though he didn't do it in the best way.

So lets try and give some helpful advice to Semper to help her help her friends. Advise like, just continue being a friend. Take 'em out for a beer and let him know that if he wants to talk you are there anytime. One of the best things you can do is to be there to listen and to give advice when they ask.


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## SemperFidelis (28 Jul 2005)

CFL...I guess you're right about sitting back and listening...I cant say I've been in war as a soldier , yet, but I have been in war as a civilian.   Sometimes that makes me think I know what am talking about...even tho it might not seem so from your or anyone elses point of view...how ever it is one thats been moulded by a been-there-done-that.   I may have been young, but the things you see make you grow up fast and you dont forget that shit too fast.   I guess sometimes it makes you passionate and oppinionated...


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## Britney Spears (28 Jul 2005)

For the children:

I believe, after some time in the army, that all of you will come understand our callous attitudes towards matters like this. How, upon hearing of this young man's unfortunate plight, our first thoughts are not "Poor dear,  get him some Hugh Grant movies and a bucket of pralines'n cream", but "Thank goodness his buddies don't have to deal with him when it starts raining lead". Ever since the beginning of time, fighting men and women survive and advance over fire swept ground because they fear dishonour in the eyes of their comrades more than they fear the enemy. People become soldiers when they finally figure out that the universe doesn't revolve around THEM, that their petty little anxieties (yes, that's what they are, and yes, we all have them.)  don't matter a lick when the bullets start flying because 7 other equally frightened kids  are counting on them to hold that little section of the line. If you break, your buddies are very likely to die.

No, it doesn't make much sense on paper, and it runs contrary to everything that our self-centered "me first"  society has taught you, but there you have it. With good training and leadership, most find out fairly early in the game whether they are up to it or not. Hopefully, unlike the young man in the OP,  you will too. 

Like Kev says, "Big Boys' Rules"


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## Gunner98 (28 Jul 2005)

Yes, KevinB, I've read your semi-literate posts (and your profile).  Let me quote you and respond





			
				KevinB said:
			
		

> Gunner98 - do you ever read my posts?
> 
> Where is the relevance????  - *We are from the same blood lines and the dataset is larger than we can expect to duplicate today.*
> 
> ...


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## Barek (28 Jul 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> For the children:
> 
> I believe, after some time in the army, that all of you will come understand our callous attitudes towards matters like this. How, upon hearing of this young man's unfortunate plight, our first thoughts are not "Poor dear,   get him some Hugh Grant movies and a bucket of pralines'n cream", but "Thank goodness his buddies don't have to deal with him when it starts raining lead". Ever since the beginning of time, fighting men and women survive and advance over fire swept ground because they fear dishonour in the eyes of their comrades more than they fear the enemy. People become soldiers when they finally figure out that the universe doesn't revolve around THEM, that their petty little anxieties (yes, that's what they are, and yes, we all have them.)   don't matter a lick when the bullets start flying because 7 other equally frightened kids   are counting on them to hold that little section of the line. If you break, your buddies are very likely to die.
> 
> ...



I think i get what you are saying. I realise that, insofar as i can without having experienced it, in war there isn't time to coddle people. I get it, war is a shithole and everyone has to do their part, everyone has to work as part of the whole. But this guy hasn't deployed yet and prolly has just discovered he can't handle it. So maybe this just shows that we haven't come a long way in preparing a soldier for war. There are always gonna be people taht make it through training that can't handle combat. So, if he was in your squad and you knew him, wouldn't you at least have the honor to let him go with a little dignity and respect. No everyone is cut out for service, better he find out now then on the field when other peoples lives depend on him.


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## TCBF (28 Jul 2005)

The army - everyone's army - always gets blamed for everything.   Truth is, the military aspect of a person's life is not always the straw that broke the camel's back.   Today, we lose more good soldiers to bad (stupid, in some cases) marriages than we do to hostile acts.   What we have to handle is LIFE.   In uniform and out.   If the problem is ultimately civil in origin, it's solution must be a civil one.   If the problem is one of a maladaptation to the exigincies of the service, then losses must be cut.

I agree that people need help.   I also believe we can bankrupt the service by recruiting sub-standard character sets and then robbing our ops and training budget to treat problems created twenty years before a uniform was put on.

If the army did it - the army should fix it.   If not, welcome to the Canada Health Act.

Tom


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## Britney Spears (28 Jul 2005)

> I think i get what you are saying. I realise that, insofar as i can without having experienced it, in war there isn't time to coddle people. I get it, war is a ******* and everyone has to do their part, everyone has to work as part of the whole. But this guy hasn't deployed yet and prolly has just discovered he can't handle it. So maybe this just shows that we haven't come a long way in preparing a soldier for war. There are always gonna be people taht make it through training that can't handle combat. So, if he was in your squad and you knew him, wouldn't you at least have the honor to let him go with a little dignity and respect. No everyone is cut out for service, better he find out now then on the field when other peoples lives depend on him.



I don't know the man and I don't know the circumstances, so that's all I can say about that. Casting stones, glass house, and all that jazz. I just hope that some of you might understand where our attitudes stem from, most civillians don't.


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## KevinB (28 Jul 2005)

Gunner 98.
 Well I guess warm and fuzzy makes for more jobs for Health Care Administrators.  ;D


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## paracowboy (28 Jul 2005)

well, I'm just glad he snapped BEFORE he got in theatre and got good troops dead.


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## Blakey (29 Jul 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> well, I'm just glad he snapped BEFORE he got in theatre and got good troops dead.


Cant sleep, clown will eat me...


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## Britney Spears (29 Jul 2005)

Blakey said:
			
		

> Cant sleep, clown will eat me...



CRAP not again... hide him away in CQ before the CBC gets wind of it!


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## Spr.Earl (29 Jul 2005)

Well I did think of it as most of have done and those who come after us will also,we would not be human if we did not have these thoughts, it's normal!
Just go, do your job as you have been trained too do and come home safe.


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## Bartok5 (29 Jul 2005)

Blakey said:
			
		

> Cant sleep, clown will eat me...



Man, I HATE those clowns....  Worse than Al Quaeda & Taliban combined.  Seriously freaky stuff.....

Jeez - I hope we never have to fight the clowns.  Tiny little APCs disgorging literally hundreds of clown combattants.....  The clowns themselves ranging from super tall to super short, so that "centre of mass" no longer holds any meaning....  The entire concept is horrible!  HORRIBLE!!

I want no part of it.  The minute the clowns join the party I'm turning in my kit.  AQ and Taliban I can handle.  Angry clowns?  No frigging way - I'm outta here.   You can't fight an organization with that kind of universal public support.  Ain't gonna happen...


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## Gunner (29 Jul 2005)

> Jeez - I hope we never have to fight the clowns.  Tiny little APCs disgorging literally hundreds of clown combattants.....  The clowns themselves ranging from super tall to super short, so that "centre of mass" no longer holds any meaning....  The entire concept is horrible!  HORRIBLE!!



Careful there soldier, it could happen here!


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## reccecrewman (1 Sep 2005)

It's been said before but I'll say it again - If he's in a psych ward, thats the best place for him.  Let professionals do their job.  There's really only so much you can do (which ain't much in a case like this)


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## Wolfe (2 Sep 2005)

In the 1 place ARMY = COMABT AND WAR, personally for me i didn't join the army for some camping and shooting bullets in the air no i know that i could go to Afghanistan and let me tell i would love to go there i may sound crazy the reason is that well i love Canada but when you know somebody could come and blow his self up in the metro and kill kids and family's it makes me want to go there and seek vengeance to the terrorists. If i had a terrorist in front of me i would say to him : Look i don't give a crap what is your cause and what you are fighting for and i don't even want to know but if you come in my country to put terror i will come in your to kill the people that trained you. ABOUT the stress , i have a friend 45 years old, i speak with him every week end, he was a sniper in the Romanian special forces long time ago and he saw a lot of sh*t and i asked him how come you are still okay psychologically and he replied, i am a soldier i was trained for that i shut up and did the job. PERSONALLY i totally agree with Kevin. Yes we are human that is true be we can control our emotion if you apply for the army well you are supposed to know that you should go to war and manage it inside of you and when they ship you go out there shut up and do the dirty job THIS is the army sometimes its a dirty job and soldiers got to deal with it personally when a soldier is to emotional to my eyes he is not even close to be a soldier and should quite the army no in the first place he shouldn't never applied for the army.  For me , i serve my country and well i am crazy but i love action. If you don't understand me go read the book NO MEAN SOLDIER by Peter McAlesse.

Like Peter McAleesse says in his Book:

" This was the first time i had been in contact and killed anyone. I felt good, I felt hard. But the euphoria was nothing to do with ending another person's life. I felt good because i had not panicked, I had not let down my friends, I had reacted as a professional soldier trained by professional soldiers, and the excitement of the firefight was nothing short of fantastic. I've never taken drugs but I can't believe there is anything which can equal the thrill of battle. I loved it."


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## Ranman (2 Sep 2005)

Wolfe said:
			
		

> " This was the first time i had been in contact and killed anyone. I felt good, I felt hard.



In rare instances, men have reported an erection that lasts many hours. You should call a doctor immediately if you ever have an erection that lasts more than 4 hours.


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## Wolfe (2 Sep 2005)

AHHAHAAH good one, well i don't know you should ask Peter McAleese i wonder if he is still alive.....He is British so Don't confuse words ahahha and it will help if you read more than " I Felt Hard ".

Wolf


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## TCBF (2 Sep 2005)

"You should call a doctor immediately if you ever have an erection that lasts more than 4 hours."

Who told you that?  More New-Age nausea.  No wonder so many young women are walking around with knots in their faces nowadays.  Now, in my day...

Tom


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## Armymedic (2 Sep 2005)

Yes, Tom that may be, but if you remember your appoint with the Doctor? The one where you got the perscription for the little blue pills?

He told you to seek medical advice if it lasted longer then 4 hours...remember? 

Or did you forget your other medication this am?

 ;D

Now that we have belittled the initial topic enough, I would like to point out there is always a certain level of anxiety to deployments. 

Whether it be the fear (yes even in the most minute form it still can be called fear) of the unknown, or the stress of leaving your family alone for the unteenth time in the last few yrs, everyone feels a bit of stress. Common sense says it is unhealthy for anyone to run away from it, and with our enlightened (at least should be) leadership, every soldier should have the access to help from somebody somewhere. In Canada, we have alot of experience with tour stress, thats why social workers and mental health teams are available overseas.

`


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## Springroll (2 Sep 2005)

Does the CF still offer the Suicide Prevention Course? 

Does the US have a similar course?


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## Armymedic (2 Sep 2005)

yes and,

yes.


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## Gunner98 (2 Sep 2005)

Program now referred to as ASIST - Applied Suicide Intervention Skills Training, see:
http://www.pspottawa.forces.gc.ca/hp/pro_suicideprev_e.asp


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## Springroll (2 Sep 2005)

My husband had to take that course a few years ago. He said he learned alot about suicide. 
Only problem was that they never went really in depth. Hard to do on a 2 day course.


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## oftengone (2 Sep 2005)

I also agreer with Kevin and the Doc, he need to be stable, mentaly for his troop to rely on him.  Out there he needs to be there for his troop, and if he can't deal with that stress, he's not in the right job.  You know even before he signed to because a CF member, he was told that he could be deployed oversea.  

You can't do anything about it. He has to ask for help, and a suicide attemped, come on, it's a coward why to do it....

Sorry but it's true... :-\


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