# Poor muffin and Spec pay to boot.



## mad dog 2020 (25 Jan 2011)

Unreasonable demands lead to a lack of morale on base
Letter to the editor

My nephew, who is currently attending the Military Police Academy at CFB Borden, related to me on the current low morale and lack of family support at that institution.

Enlisting to seek a proud profession, he related how he was so turned off by the treatment that he could not see himself remaining in the military past his initial engagement.

For example, as a result of the “snow in” in December during which the entire base was closed for three days, the commander ordered that all staff and students come in on their hard-earned weekends off to make up for the loss. The problem is that there was no apparent loss since no exams or other important tasks were missed.

Talk about taking the holiday cheer out of the troops, they should’ve been with their families on the weekends.

Physical training is also being done on the soldiers’ own personal time at 5:45 a.m., three times a week.

A fit soldier is important, but like any other “job training” it is to be done on work time, not personal time.

With more and more military families having a working spouse, it is the job of the soldier to help the spouse get the kids to breakfast and to school. This can’t be done if the commander is making troops come in at that hour to run. 

To make matters worse, many of the students and staff have had to seek medical attention to resolve issues of “shin splints,” sprained ankles and other leg related injuries.

Obviously the MP Academy didn’t get the memo from the Chief of Defence Staff that soldiers are to have a balanced military and personal life.

Now more than ever the troops really do need the public support since it’s clear from his account that the military itself isn’t providing it.


Anne Hayes,

Beeton


From Simcoe.com


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## Scott (25 Jan 2011)

I hope to Jeebus that your nephew doesn't share your last name, lady.


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## Brutus (25 Jan 2011)

So let me get this straight. The troops were ordered to make up lost time missed during a snow in? Not fair! How dare they demand that candidates actually COMPLETE each PO on a course! And they were ordered to RUN? At 5:30 am?!?! What a travesty.

You'd think this was the military or something...


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## jollyjacktar (25 Jan 2011)

:rofl:  My how times have changed.  Hope the stupid bugger can stand the shock if he gets to a MP PL.


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## Strike (25 Jan 2011)

Um, the last time I checked, many career courses didn't run from 8 to 4.  I've also had to work on a weekend to make up time lost because of weather issues and have even had to come in on a weekend because of the availability of a guest speaker.  Guess what, that's the life of a student.

As for shin splints, a good pair of shoes could have prevented that.


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## Brutus (25 Jan 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> As for shin splints, a good pair of shoes could have prevented that.


...and maybe arriving fit.


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## Strike (25 Jan 2011)

I was trying to remain neutral on that point.   ;D


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## marshall sl (25 Jan 2011)

Poor Muffin is right. Go whine somewhere else.


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## meni0n (25 Jan 2011)

PT on your own time is a dream come true on a course, I can't believe someone is complaining about that.


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## PuckChaser (25 Jan 2011)

Someone needs to remind this lady that her tax dollars are paying this troop 24/7. That means the CF owns him 24/7. If someone in charge says PT is at 0415, well that's just too damn bad.


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## Fishbone Jones (25 Jan 2011)

That must be him in the middle


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## Container (25 Jan 2011)

_Enlisting to seek a proud profession, he related how he was so turned off by the treatment that he could not see himself remaining in the military past his initial engagement._

An proud profession with guaranteed weekends off? I know of none. Im not in the "academy" anymore and I have to PT on my own time still And guess what? Im in the gym of my own accord at 5:45. I wonder what my boss will say when I demand that I be able to workout at work because of my work/life balance?

He's not even done trades training yet! What happens when the honeymoon wears off? I pity his sup's.


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## Civvymedic (25 Jan 2011)

Wow....I'm not in the Military but certainly we have staff who start there shifts at 0530. Go for 12 hours and we all have to work out on our own time to stay fit. I wish working out was part of my scheduled day, meals were cooked for me in a mess and could have the odd weekend off.


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## Container (25 Jan 2011)

I suspect this must be a very young man based off his aunt writing a letter and his belief as to what he thinks he should get from his employer.

It doesnt sound to me like he's worked anywhere else before and thus does not respect the "roses" of his experience.

But I may be wrong.


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## Civvymedic (25 Jan 2011)

It could very well be the age and generation. We have staff who are younger and for some reason think they should not work weekends, overtime, actually work as least as possible but still make 100 K a year and not have to learn anything.


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## chrisf (25 Jan 2011)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Someone needs to remind this lady that her tax dollars are paying this troop 24/7. That means the CF owns him 24/7. If someone in charge says PT is at 0415, well that's just too damn bad.



"We're paying you 24/7" is also often an excuse for people who are bad at people and/or management... there's a line where fair treatment exists... especially in garrison... that being said, this falls well within that line... given that it was the aunt, and not the individual, are we even sure that the individual feels this way, or is it possible the aunt wrote this entirely of her own intiative?


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## Nauticus (25 Jan 2011)

She has a point.

Most militaries in the world only operate 9:00 - 17:00, monday through friday and because they don't have time during that period to do a lot of fitness training, there's no PT requirements to join them. Strange that Canada's military is so different...

/sarcasm machine off


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## JMesh (25 Jan 2011)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> ...given that it was the aunt, and not the individual, are we even sure that the individual feels this way, or is it possible the aunt wrote this entirely of her own intiative?



Well, if all of what she said was factual, then the individual feels the same way:



> he related how he was so turned off by the treatment that he could not see himself remaining in the military past his initial engagement.


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## Strike (25 Jan 2011)

I can imagine what the guys on course at Depot would think about this letter.


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## Shamrock (25 Jan 2011)

Civvymedic said:
			
		

> It could very well be the age and generation.



Could also be the individual complaining in the wrong tone to the wrong family member using the wrong amounts of military embellishment. 

Now, as for the healthy balance between military and personal lives, I keep a photo of my family on my desk and make friends at work. Problem solved.


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## SupersonicMax (25 Jan 2011)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> She has a point.
> 
> Most militaries in the world only operate 9:00 - 17:00, monday through friday and because they don't have time during that period to do a lot of fitness training, there's no PT requirements to join them. Strange that Canada's military is so different...
> 
> /sarcasm machine off



Talk to the Danes.


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## Scott (25 Jan 2011)

I am sure that editor's lick their chops when they get stupid letters like this because they know just how fucking stupid they sound.

Meh. I'm sure if that guy was here he was likely one of those who _just knew_ he had what it would take to be a soldier (until 1700 and only on weekdays)


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## lethalLemon (25 Jan 2011)

Nauticus said:
			
		

> She has a point.
> 
> Most militaries in the world only operate 9:00 - 17:00, monday through friday and because they don't have time during that period to do a lot of fitness training, there's no PT requirements to join them. Strange that Canada's military is so different...
> 
> /sarcasm machine off



I know! Oh man, maybe we should just go and join the Tajikistan military

/sarcasm machine also off


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## Nauticus (25 Jan 2011)

Scott said:
			
		

> I am sure that editor's lick their chops when they get stupid letters like this because they know just how ******* stupid they sound.
> 
> Meh. I'm sure if that guy was here he was likely one of those who _just knew_ he had what it would take to be a soldier (until 1700 and only on weekdays)


If only that were the complete problem.

Sounds like he doesn't want to be a super-sniper spec-ops ninja until after 0600hours, either.


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## blacktriangle (25 Jan 2011)

Sunshine Ranger.


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## chrisf (25 Jan 2011)

JMesh said:
			
		

> Well, if all of what she said was factual, then the individual feels the same way:



As the old saying goes, if your troops aren't complaining there's somthing wrong.

He wouldn't be the first troop who mused about quitting. The letter was written by his aunt, not by him, yet everyone wants to attack him.

If he feels that strongly, then he can put it in writing himself. Until then, it's his aunt having no understanding of the military or it's culture.


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## muffin (26 Jan 2011)

.... makes me want to change my nickname.....


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## Journeyman (26 Jan 2011)

muffin said:
			
		

> .... makes me want to change my nickname.....


 :rofl:


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## GAP (26 Jan 2011)

muffin said:
			
		

> .... makes me want to change my nickname.....



Well, just don't start complaining about how bad things are....you've already got a reputation you have to live down... ;D


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## Scott (26 Jan 2011)

muffin said:
			
		

> .... makes me want to change my nickname.....



Cupcake? ;D


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## kratz (26 Jan 2011)

Scott said:
			
		

> Cupcake? ;D



I can see the name change now:

muffin ----> cupcake ----> princess  ;D


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## muffin (26 Jan 2011)

Scott said:
			
		

> Cupcake? ;D


They called me cupcakes in highschool.... no good will come of this....  :blotto:


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## REDinstaller (26 Jan 2011)

Well it could always be worse. :nod:


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## Nfld Sapper (26 Jan 2011)

mad dog 2020 said:
			
		

> Unreasonable demands lead to a lack of morale on base
> Letter to the editor
> 
> My nephew, who is currently attending the Military Police Academy at CFB Borden, related to me on the current low morale and lack of family support at that institution.
> ...




What do you think this is an 8-5 job? If the nephew doesn't like getting up at o'dark stupid for PT then he shouldn't have enrolled.........


And Jesus wept......


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## Ammo (27 Jan 2011)

This subject brought lots of discussion and comments.
Check them all out at http://www.simcoe.com/community/alliston/article/932894 (at least 4 pages of comments. "Gameover" has definitely some different ideas/notions of the role of the CF ...)
PS I hope that a proper official response from CFB Borden is in the works. MTF


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## lethalLemon (27 Jan 2011)

Ammo said:
			
		

> This subject brought lots of discussion and comments.
> Check them all out at http://www.simcoe.com/community/alliston/article/932894 (at least 4 pages of comments. "Gameover" has definitely some different ideas/notions of the role of the CF ...)
> PS I hope that a proper official response from CFB Borden is in the works. MTF



You have got to be kidding me!?

....Great, now the public can go bash the CF blindly based off this "complaint letter" without any research or facts about the CF and the way it operates, its roles etc.


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## Ammo (27 Jan 2011)

Yep...
But, as I said, MTF (something will come out from Borden, I'm sure!!!)


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## medicineman (27 Jan 2011)

Diagnosis - MID (Muffin in Distress)

Disposition - RTM (Return to Mommy).

Can't be much politer than that.

MM


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## Strike (27 Jan 2011)

Ammo said:
			
		

> Yep...
> But, as I said, MTF (something will come out from Borden, I'm sure!!!)



I seriously doubt it.  Why would anyone at the base waste their time replying to one letter to the editor and a bunch of anonymous posters?


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## vonGarvin (27 Jan 2011)

This dude's aunt needs a punch


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## PuckChaser (27 Jan 2011)

Right in the babymaker.

I love that movie.


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Jan 2011)

I think we've covered all the pertinent points. If there is anything earth shattering to add, contact a Mod.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Ammo (31 Jan 2011)

Here is one response from a local retired CF member that was published in last Thursday (January 27th) edition of the Herald weekend.


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