# ATOC - CA (PRes) 2005 - any one else here going?



## Highland Laddie (7 Apr 2005)

Afternoon all,

Just curious if anyone else on the boards is loaded for the ATOC-CA (PRes) course? The first serial's DL starts 18 Apr 05, with the residency portion in Gagetown from 29 May - 10 Jun 05. Cheers.


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## COBRA-6 (7 Apr 2005)

I'm not, but a buddy from work is on that serial. From what I hear it's a good course...


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## Bartok5 (8 Apr 2005)

Well, I'm not "going" per-se, because I'm already here.  I'll be on-hand to greet you as the Tactics School Chief Instructor and Deputy-Commandant during the Course Introduction on Day 1.  Your Crse Officer will be Maj Eric Crane (Engineer).  The Syndicate Directing Staff are Majors with sub-unit command and operational experience.

Do your best to absorb the doctrinal theory and TTPs covered in the Distributed Learning package, as this will set the conditions for your successful "hands-on" application of that same material during the 2-week Residency portion of the course.  The Residency is fairly intense, with full days and considerable homework during the evenings.  There is a lot of material to cover in a very limited period of time.  Depending on your personal level of experience the "firehose" will likely be a tad overwhelming at first.  Having taught as DS on numerous ATOC serials however, I can assure you that most students adapt and settle into a reasonably comfortable routine by the 3rd or 4th day of Residency.  You will be working Sundays, as we must add 2 training days to the normal 10 in order to review the DL material before launching into the practical aspects of the course material.  This is necessary because Res F students do not have the benefit of a concentrated 2-week DL programme with daily DS-led teleconferences.  The Reg F students undergo the DL package in a much more structured manner, immediately preceeding their attendance on Residency.  This approach obviously cannot apply to Reservists - hence the  additional day of DL review at the start of Residency and again mid-way through the program as we shift focus from offensive to defensive and delay operations.

ATOC CA is a good course, given the time constraints that we are forced to observe.  Although much of the context (Combat Team in combat operations) is not directly applicable to your future Res F service, you will nonetheless leave Tactics School with a far better appreciation for the planning and execution of combined-arms combat operations at the sub-unit level.   

Be sure to let me know who you are when you show up for the course.  It is always nice to meet fellow Army.ca members.

Cheers,

Mark C


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## Highland Laddie (8 Apr 2005)

ACK Mark C. Thanks for the insight. I'm really looking forward to the course, and have already been plugging my way through some of the DL material from the ATOC website.

I do have a couple questions for you:

1. The joining instructions mention a laptop being issued to each candidate at the beginning of the course. Is this correct? I don't have one available from my unit, and those who did not have a laptop on our MOSC course in Edmonton last year had a heck of a time.

2. 'Field' work - Are there any tactical portions to this course (ie need to bring FFO & Marching Order), or is it mainly TEWTs and combat estimate exercises out in the training area for the day as I have heard?

3. Any other material or info that is helpful for the course? I've been reading through the PAMs listed, and have read a fair bit about Mission Command, Commander's Intent, Combat Estimate process, etc. over the past year. Any thing else - Orders formats, etc? I imagine we receive a fair bit of this on the actual course.

Thanks for the insight and any comments you might offer. Cheers.


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## 54/102 CEF (8 Apr 2005)

Hi There

I was on ATOC - CSS last year. Everything about ATOC - CA is worthwhile - but please keep an eye out and do what you can to avoid reviewing what you test on for the DL Test. We reviewed - in my opinion for 3 days which could have been better spent in Tewts or the Janus Room (which is great).

If you issue laptops and have printers aval - make sure they work. They were poor last year - so I just hand wrote the homework.

All in all I think ATOC is very worthwhile despite a few bugs as noted above.


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## Bartok5 (8 Apr 2005)

Highland Laddie,

You will indeed be issued a laptop with the ATOC DL material on a CD-ROM upon your arrival.   So, no worries there.

There are no "field" portions of the ATOC course.   It is based on progressive Syndicate Discussion (DI) of a given tactical problem, followed by a TEWT of that exact same problem on the genuine ground, followed by exercising of the syndicate solution of that same problem in the JCATS (JANUS) C3 simulator.   All of that to say, you will not be spending evenings in the training area, nor will you be commanding anything other than your syndicate peers in a JCATS simulator environment.   Trust me however, the progressive challenge will be quite enough without the physical "hands-on" of commanding the real deal.   We save that for the annual Combined Arms Team Commander's Course.   Mark my words - you will be FULLY challenged and engaged with the system that we have established.   

Because the ATOC TEWTs all occur outside of the Gagetown training area on civilian land, you will not be tied to the CTC policy of "fighting order beyond the water-tower.   You do not require webbing/Tac Vest, nor do you need a helmet or respirator to attend the course.   This should have been made clear to you in the joining instruction, but it if wasn't then please let me know and I will sort that out.   What you will need is PT gear for both indoor and outdoor physical training.   We have 6 sessions during a typical 10-day ATOC cycle.

Your preparation for ATOC Residence consists solely of having a firm grasp of the doctrinal concepts and the detailed TTPs presented in the internet-based DL package.   If you have that material "cold", then you will be well-positioned to do well during Residence.   A thorough grounding in the DL material is the funamental enabler for success during Residence, full-stop.   Suffice it to say that you cannot progress, nor absorb new concepts if you do not have a basic grounding in the fundamentals - of which common terminology is a huge part.   

We don't expect you to necessarily know how to apply the Combat Estimate process to the planning of a combined-arms team (eg. Combat Team) in the various tactical operations of war.   Quite frankly, if you did there would be little point in showing up.   What we DO expect you to know (stone-cold) are the various steps of the Combat Estimate process and how to take a given fact, relate it to the applicable "estimate factor", and then "mine" that fact to derive a substantive task or consideration that affects your tactical plan.   The old "so what?" resulting in a substantive requirement to take action, task a sub-element, etc.   Your ability to conduct an effective and comprehensive Mission Analysis will also be key.   

At the end of the day, we don't expect you to show up on a Res F ATOC serial "totally gripped".   It simply will not happen.   All we ask is that you do your best to treat the preparatory DL material seriously, and absorb as much as you can.   If nothing else, learn the doctrinally-correct terminology so that when your DS says "Secure", you know what that particular Mission-Task Verb truly means.   This may come as a surprise to many, but "Defend" is not an acceptable mission-task verb.   It does not exist in the NATO lexicon.   You have to be far more specific.   

At the end of the day, if you simply "don't get it" from the DL package, then don't worry.   We will teach/coach/mentor/cajole you to the point that the light clicks on.   That is what we do, and I must say that we are exceedingly good at it.   

Don't panic.   We will take very good care of you.   As I said earlier, you will be overwhelmed at first.   However, experience tells me that you will soon settle down and start to absorb what you are being taught largely by practical application.   Don't kill yourself during the DL phase, but by the same token you would be an utter fool to give that package short-shrift.   You will be utterly useless to the rest of your combined-arms syndicate of students if you show up without a frigging clue and not even speaking the same doctrinally-correct language.   Put in the recommended DL time, and you will accrue the resultant benefit.   End of story.

As I said, I look forward to seeing you here in Gagetown this summer.   Work reasonably hard between now and then on mastering the DL content.   That way, you will at least start the Residency on an even keel.   After that, your comparative performance will entirely depend upon your ability to assimilate new information and immediately exploit it to achieve tactical success.   Full-stop.   We don't give out "freebies", but we do quite readily (and happily) recognize tactical competence.   Where you fit into the mix?   Well, that remains to be seen!    But at the end of the day, you have zero to fear in coming to the Tactics School.   We are NOT the Infantry School, which has a certain "weeding out" function to fulfull.   We expect that by the time you reach us?   You are a proven commodity and we exist solely to hone and ehance your skills - full-stop.   We will willingly mentor and coach you to success if you are not yet capable of carrying the ball yourself.   That is our fundamental purpose in life.   

In case you haven't already heard, nobody "fails" at Tactics School.   Show up, do your professional best, and you have "passed".   You compete with yourself, against a set standard.   There is no peer competition, nor is there any formal grading "A, B, C, etc".   Having said that, your descriptive course report will very clearly indicate your abilities in the "5 vital skills" - Leadership/Command Presence, Decision-Making Skills, Communication Skills, Organizational Skills, and Tactical Acumen.   The short form is that this course will be like none that you have ever experienced to date.   Our interest lies solely in improving your professional abilities, while at the same time formally introducing you (through forced syndicate interaction) to what the other combat arms do for a living.   If you consider ATOC Residency a formalized "professional development opportunity" of 2 weeks duration with a structured and DS-led curriculum, then you are thinking along the right track - because that is precisely what this "course" is.   There is no "pass/fail".   There is only the training opportunity.   And trust me - we will bend over backwards to provide you with the absolute best possible training opportunity that we can.   As the Tac Sch Chief Instructor, you have my professional word that we will make it so.   Full-stop.   

Once again, I look forward to seeing you out here in Gagetown.   Trust me when I say that you will not regret the experience.   This ain't "Phase Training" Toto.   This is adult learning.   Which (to be honest) some may find even MORE challenging.   At the end of the day, you will have to answer for your dicked-up plans to your own PEERS, not just the instructors.   And I'm here to tell you that no one is less merciful than your own syndicate mates.   We DS have input, but at the end of the day we can get everything we need by just sitting back and watching the syndicate interaction.   Human interaction at its finest....

C'mon out to Tac Sch.   We're glad to train you.   Chances are, it will be the most illuminating and challenging 2 weeks of your Res F service to date.   No Bull-crap.

Cheers,

Mark


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## Garett (10 Apr 2005)

I want it, especially since I've been on the Militia Officer Staff Course since last August.  

I bet Mark C would scratch my name off the list if I got on it since I still owe him a beer.


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## Highland Laddie (11 Apr 2005)

Thanks for the detailed response Mark C! I am really looking forward to this course, and chomping at the bit to get into some more detailed tactical and operations planning training.

Please take my inquiry as seeking more information, not worry or panic. Like all training to date, you get out of it what you put into it. Fore warned is fore armed!


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## Bartok5 (12 Apr 2005)

Highland Laddie,

Good attitude.  I look forward to seeing you on ATOC CA in a few months' time.  

Garrett,

Load YOU on ATOC?!?  Please, PLEASE stop - my ribs are killing me from all the giggling you've caused....  



PS:  I'm just kidding about the ATOC thing, but you DO still owe me a beer   

Mark C


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## mudgunner49 (14 Apr 2005)

Mark C,

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but please say hello to Eric Crane from the boys in Sault Ste Marie and let him know that the rainbow are running heavy this year.

Glad to see that he got promoted...

Much appreciated


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## Bartok5 (18 Apr 2005)

Mudgunner,

Wilco.  I'll pass the word this week and ask him to drop by this site.

Mark C


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## mudgunner49 (18 Apr 2005)

Mark,

Thanks - he can also hit me at the email on my profile, as it comes up on my wireless...


Take care,

Blake


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