# Can you tell what rank someone is in Civilian clothes?



## Mediman14 (30 Jan 2021)

I have been living on the same street for 11 years now, I have seen 3 Commanding Officers come and go on this street. It's not often that I see anyone of them outside. In fact, I always seen their respective others outside with the kids playing or even operating the snow blower. Often their wives are very friendly, outgoing and humble. 
     One day I brought my father in law to the music store, while he was playing guitar I notice a commanding officer that I recognize walked in and pick up a guitar and started playing. My father in law is a gifted musician recognized the song and approached the CO to give him a tip on playing a certain guitar chord since the chord was not ringing out correctly. My Father in law was very polite and offered a tip, I watched the CO, the look of grotesques he had was obvious. As my father in law walked away, the CO gave him the finger. Several other people witness this and said to the CO, that was inappropriate. The response was "no one approaches me like that", do you know who I am? and left the store.
   I knew who he was, he was the CO of JPSU.


----------



## Kat Stevens (30 Jan 2021)

Mediman14 said:


> I have been living on the same street for 11 years now, I have seen 3 Commanding Officers come and go on this street. It's not often that I see anyone of them outside. In fact, I always seen their respective others outside with the kids playing or even operating the snow blower. Often their wives are very friendly, outgoing and humble.
> One day I brought my father in law to the music store, while he was playing guitar I notice a commanding officer that I recognize walked in and pick up a guitar and started playing. My father in law is a gifted musician recognized the song and approached the CO to give him a tip on playing a certain guitar chord since the chord was not ringing out correctly. My Father in law was very polite and offered a tip, I watched the CO, the look of grotesques he had was obvious. As my father in law walked away, the CO gave him the finger. Several other people witness this and said to the CO, that was inappropriate. The response was "no one approaches me like that", do you know who I am? and left the store.
> I knew who he was, he was the CO of JPSU.


... and an utter shitbird by the sounds of it.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (30 Jan 2021)

Mediman14 said:


> I have been living on the same street for 11 years now, I have seen 3 Commanding Officers come and go on this street. It's not often that I see anyone of them outside. In fact, I always seen their respective others outside with the kids playing or even operating the snow blower. Often their wives are very friendly, outgoing and humble.
> One day I brought my father in law to the music store, while he was playing guitar I notice a commanding officer that I recognize walked in and pick up a guitar and started playing. My father in law is a gifted musician recognized the song and approached the CO to give him a tip on playing a certain guitar chord since the chord was not ringing out correctly. My Father in law was very polite and offered a tip, I watched the CO, the look of grotesques he had was obvious. As my father in law walked away, the CO gave him the finger. Several other people witness this and said to the CO, that was inappropriate. The response was "no one approaches me like that", do you know who I am? and left the store.
> I knew who he was, he was the CO of JPSU.









You want to know that someone is A. A Senior Officer or B.  A member of the Intelligence Community .... You need to look for visual cues:

Classic giveaway:

I present to you the 25 year old Corduroy Jacket with patches on the sleeves.


----------



## dimsum (30 Jan 2021)

I could smell that picture.


----------



## Pelorus (30 Jan 2021)

Sometimes you can indeed get a pretty good sense of what rank someone is while they're in civilian clothes...


----------



## daftandbarmy (30 Jan 2021)

Mediman14 said:


> I have been living on the same street for 11 years now, I have seen 3 Commanding Officers come and go on this street. It's not often that I see anyone of them outside. In fact, I always seen their respective others outside with the kids playing or even operating the snow blower. Often their wives are very friendly, outgoing and humble.
> One day I brought my father in law to the music store, while he was playing guitar I notice a commanding officer that I recognize walked in and pick up a guitar and started playing. My father in law is a gifted musician recognized the song and approached the CO to give him a tip on playing a certain guitar chord since the chord was not ringing out correctly. My Father in law was very polite and offered a tip, I watched the CO, the look of grotesques he had was obvious. As my father in law walked away, the CO gave him the finger. Several other people witness this and said to the CO, that was inappropriate. The response was "no one approaches me like that", do you know who I am? and left the store.
> I knew who he was, he was the CO of JPSU.



These kinds of people are easy to pick out of the crowd.

For some reason, they're the first ones to go down within about 30 seconds of crossing the Line of Departure


----------



## SeaKingTacco (30 Jan 2021)

boot12 said:


> Sometimes you can indeed get a pretty good sense of what rank someone is while they're in civilian clothes...
> 
> View attachment 64448


That is freakishly accurate. Especially the running shoes.


----------



## dapaterson (30 Jan 2021)

Not sure how accurate that is.  None of those appear to have a 46" waist.


----------



## dimsum (30 Jan 2021)

dapaterson said:


> Not sure how accurate that is.  None of those appear to have a 46" waist.


One Halloween at work, one of the officers dressed up as a CPO by having a fake moustache, C2 rank on NCDs, and a pillow stuffed underneath the shirt in the stomach section.  

We thought it was hilarious.  The C&PO mess, less so.


----------



## dimsum (30 Jan 2021)

Humphrey Bogart said:


>


Random question - what's the deal with the other strap in front of the helmet (just below the Capt rank bars)?  He's already wearing a helmet strap...


----------



## mariomike (30 Jan 2021)

That's the chinstrap for the liner inside the shell.


----------



## FJAG (31 Jan 2021)

dimsum said:


> Random question - what's the deal with the other strap in front of the helmet (just below the Capt rank bars)?  He's already wearing a helmet strap...


It kept the helmet's front a bit tighter to the liner so it wouldn't bounce around and served as a chin strap if you only wore the liner without the helmet.

🍻


----------



## blacktriangle (31 Jan 2021)

Good day, 

I'm a mediocre guitar player who has never acheived less than an 80% grade at RMC. I suffer from expensive taste, and poor dress & deportment. I don't play well with others. Poor understanding of military strategy, and utterly embarrassing performance at the tactical level. Willing to lie about my time spent as an NCM. Seeking immediate appointment to CO of a CAF unit. 

For your consideration sir/ma'am.


----------



## mariomike (31 Jan 2021)

FJAG said:


> It kept the helmet's front a bit tighter to the liner so it wouldn't bounce around and served as a chin strap if you only wore the liner without the helmet.
> 
> 🍻


Our unit eventually issued us the M1. But, prior to that, we wore the old "tin hats" left over from the war.


----------



## Haggis (31 Jan 2021)

boot12 said:


> Sometimes you can indeed get a pretty good sense of what rank someone is while they're in civilian clothes...


The most hurtful thing ever said to me when I worked at NDHQ (other than "You're from NDHQ? Eww!  Sorry.") was on dress-down Friday when a co-worker told me  "You dress like a sergeant-major.".


----------



## dapaterson (31 Jan 2021)

Pro tip: if you, as a LCol or above, on your own salary have a household income in the top 10% of Canadians, you can afford to buy a belt and shoes, and not show up on casual Friday wearing dockers, a plaid shirt and polka dot tie, a corduroy jacket with faux leather elbow patches, and a CAF issue web belt and CAF issue oxfords.


----------



## FSTO (31 Jan 2021)

dapaterson said:


> Pro tip: if you, as a LCol or above, on your own salary have a household income in the top 10% of Canadians, you can afford to buy a belt and shoes, and not show up on casual Friday wearing dockers, a plaid shirt and polka dot tie, a corduroy jacket with faux leather elbow patches, and a CAF issue web belt and CAF issue oxfords.


These are the same clowns who get free DEU's and cannot be bothered to get the pants and shirts tailored so that they actually fit. You don't have to show up in an Armani suit but for the love of god at least make the attempt to not look like a submariner at their first day alongside Amsterdam!


----------



## daftandbarmy (31 Jan 2021)

reveng said:


> Good day,
> 
> I'm a mediocre guitar player who has never acheived less than an 80% grade at RMC. I suffer from expensive taste, and poor dress & deportment. I don't play well with others. Poor understanding of military strategy, and utterly embarrassing performance at the tactical level. Willing to lie about my time spent as an NCM. Seeking immediate appointment to CO of a CAF unit.
> 
> For your consideration sir/ma'am.


Dude... you're ticking all the boxes for a job out my way!


----------



## dapaterson (31 Jan 2021)

FSTO said:


> You don't have to show up in an Armani suit but for the love of god at least make the attempt to not look like a submariner


Removed the redundant part


----------



## Navy_Pete (31 Jan 2021)

FSTO said:


> These are the same clowns who get free DEU's and cannot be bothered to get the pants and shirts tailored so that they actually fit. You don't have to show up in an Armani suit but for the love of god at least make the attempt to not look like a submariner at their first day alongside Amsterdam!


I used to get DEU shirts tailored but they are now so cheaply made I don't see the point. That seems like clear coating over rust. Instead I got some shirt tucks (the magnet ones) that kept it tucked in and that seems to work okay. I normally hem my own pants but even tailoring them can only limit how crap they fit.

Used to have a few tailor made shirts with the accountrement and whatnot on them it which I outgrew (at the neck and shoulders, to buck a trend), so probably will do the same post COIVD, but honestly doesn't seem worth the effort for the DEUs as they fall apart pretty quickly (and don't even make very good rags because they are weirdly un-absorbent for cotton).


----------



## daftandbarmy (31 Jan 2021)

Navy_Pete said:


> I used to get DEU shirts tailored but they are now so cheaply made I don't see the point. That seems like clear coating over rust. Instead I got some shirt tucks (the magnet ones) that kept it tucked in and that seems to work okay. I normally hem my own pants but even tailoring them can only limit how crap they fit.
> 
> Used to have a few tailor made shirts with the accountrement and whatnot on them it which I outgrew (at the neck and shoulders, to buck a trend), so probably will do the same post COIVD, but honestly doesn't seem worth the effort for the DEUs as they fall apart pretty quickly (and don't even make very good rags because they are weirdly un-absorbent for cotton).


----------



## PMedMoe (31 Jan 2021)

Han Solo was hot. Sorry/not sorry for the derail...


----------



## Blackadder1916 (31 Jan 2021)

How can you tell the rank in mufti?  By the accessories of course.


----------



## Navy_Pete (31 Jan 2021)

Blackadder1916 said:


> How can you tell the rank in mufti?  By the accessories of course.


I was expecting a procession of silly walks when I saw a crowd in bowlers, didn't realize people wore them for real!


----------



## daftandbarmy (31 Jan 2021)

Blackadder1916 said:


> How can you tell the rank in mufti?  By the accessories of course.


If you look up the words 'Crap Hat' in the dictionary, you'll see these guys


----------



## Good2Golf (1 Feb 2021)

So no maroon bowlers? 😆


----------



## FJAG (1 Feb 2021)

mariomike said:


> Our unit eventually issued us the M1. But, prior to that, we wore the old "tin hats" left over from the war.


Ha. Ditto. I'd forgotten about that. Had them for my recruit course and I don't know whether we ever exchanged them because being arty we never wore them in the field after that. Not really sure when I got my first M1. It was probably on my BOTC course with the two colour cam cover and band. I remember mine dangling from my gas mask carrier walking the streets of Montreal during the Octoberfest.

🍻


----------



## daftandbarmy (1 Feb 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> So no maroon bowlers? 😆



Being 'Bowler Hatted' was, and still is I assume, a great disgrace. For a reason ....


----------



## Old Sweat (1 Feb 2021)

I was issued a M1 helmet in September 1960 for OCP Phase One. Interestingly, the army called in something like "Helmet, UN". Later on, I came across a reference that indicated that circa 1943 or 1944 the Brits and us had seriously considered adopting it, and we had purchased at least 100,000 of them.


----------



## Furniture (1 Feb 2021)

boot12 said:


> Sometimes you can indeed get a pretty good sense of what rank someone is while they're in civilian clothes...
> 
> View attachment 64448


Sadly, I can confirm this...

On my Med trip one of the OROs made a good joke about it in the morning Flex pipe before we went alongside.


----------



## AKa (1 Feb 2021)

Haggis said:


> The most hurtful thing ever said to me when I worked at NDHQ (other than "You're from NDHQ? Eww!  Sorry.") was on dress-down Friday when a co-worker told me  "You dress like a sergeant-major.".


But you were wearing dockers and a golf shirt!  The sergeant-majors' civilian uniform...


----------



## Kilted (1 Feb 2021)

Navy_Pete said:


> I used to get DEU shirts tailored but they are now so cheaply made I don't see the point. That seems like clear coating over rust. Instead I got some shirt tucks (the magnet ones) that kept it tucked in and that seems to work okay. I normally hem my own pants but even tailoring them can only limit how crap they fit.
> 
> Used to have a few tailor made shirts with the accountrement and whatnot on them it which I outgrew (at the neck and shoulders, to buck a trend), so probably will do the same post COIVD, but honestly doesn't seem worth the effort for the DEUs as they fall apart pretty quickly (and don't even make very good rags because they are weirdly un-absorbent for cotton).


I normally cut the bottom of the DEU shirts off because I find that they are too long and get in the way.  It probably wouldn't last long turn, but I replace the shirt every year or so, being the piece of kit in this Army that is the easiest to come across.  Although logistic unicorps is actually a lot more useful now that they carry the jackets already cutaway and have various things such as hose, sporrans, and glengarry's.  I've even heard a rumour that they will eventually carry kilts and patrol dress.  My one complaint is that the balmorals they have are beyond "lowest bidder" quality.


----------



## daftandbarmy (1 Feb 2021)

Kilted said:


> I normally cut the bottom of the DEU shirts off because I find that they are too long and get in the way.  It probably wouldn't last long turn, but I replace the shirt every year or so, being the piece of kit in this Army that is the easiest to come across.  Although logistic unicorps is actually a lot more useful now that they carry the jackets already cutaway and have various things such as hose, sporrans, and glengarry's.  I've even heard a rumour that they will eventually carry kilts and patrol dress.  My one complaint is that the balmorals they have are beyond "lowest bidder" quality.



But the brogues are awesome, right?


----------



## FSTO (2 Feb 2021)

I would tailor my own shirts, basically turn them inside out and sew a seam down each side so that I wouldn't look like a flying squirrel. 
I had put in a change to the dress regulations to allow for pants to have "flex waist" and be of a material that was basically wash and wear. The folks at logistik already have them in stock for other customers but CAF has not asked for them.
AFAIK the request I made has died a slow and painful death due to covid.


----------



## Furniture (2 Feb 2021)

FSTO said:


> I would tailor my own shirts, basically turn them inside out and sew a seam down each side so that I wouldn't look like a flying squirrel.
> I had put in a change to the dress regulations to allow for pants to have "flex waist" and be of a material that was basically wash and wear. The folks at logistik already have them in stock for other customers but CAF has not asked for them.
> AFAIK the request I made has died a slow and painful death due to covid.


I believe it is time we went back to a work dress for office workers. 

If we had a real #3 service dress that was both practical and decent looking we could keep our wool #1s for fancy occasions. It would have to be far cheaper to have Denver Hayes/Dickies/Eddie Bauer make us a green/tan, blue, and black work dress, than it is to kit office worker out in CADPAT/NCD. They could likely leverage existing designs with minor modifications to create better looking, and more durable uniforms than what we have. 

Also, it would make going ashore in a foreign port easier, as the uniform bits wouldn't look so weird lol.


----------



## daftandbarmy (2 Feb 2021)

Furniture said:


> I believe it is time we went back to a work dress for office workers.
> 
> If we had a real #3 service dress that was both practical and decent looking we could keep our wool #1s for fancy occasions. It would have to be far cheaper to have Denver Hayes/Dickies/Eddie Bauer make us a green/tan, blue, and black work dress, than it is to kit office worker out in CADPAT/NCD. They could likely leverage existing designs with minor modifications to create better looking, and more durable uniforms than what we have.
> 
> Also, it would make going ashore in a foreign port easier, as the uniform bits wouldn't look so weird lol.


Great idea.

I found a used jacket on E-Bay for only $35 










						Canadian Land Forces Garrison Dress Woodland Camouflage Jacket w/Belt   | eBay
					

With black Garrison Belt. WOMANS: JACKET,GARRISON DRESS,LAND. Military Issue / Used but in great shape.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## dimsum (2 Feb 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Great idea.
> 
> I found a used jacket on E-Bay for only $35
> 
> ...


Honestly, what drugs was the person who proposed this on? 

It's one thing to be wearing combat clothing in an office environment, but to create a completely different uniform, specifically _not_ for the field, but making it camouflage?  wtf?


----------



## Furniture (2 Feb 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Great idea.
> 
> I found a used jacket on E-Bay for only $35
> 
> ...



I had been thinking more like the USN Service Dress/Service Khakis, but that works too lol


----------



## dangerboy (2 Feb 2021)

That is basically the same as our 3B order of dress.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (2 Feb 2021)

dimsum said:


> Honestly, what drugs was the person who proposed this on?
> 
> It's one thing to be wearing combat clothing in an office environment, but to create a completely different uniform, specifically _not_ for the field, but making it camouflage?  wtf?



Yes, it was an poorly thought out piece of kit and was the basis of multiple jokes about hiding in the office, but it partly came about as a nod (cheap nod) to the camo patterned jump smock that was worn with work dress (garrison dress) not just in the CAR but in every unit of the SSF (2 bde).


----------



## Furniture (2 Feb 2021)

dangerboy said:


> That is basically the same as our 3B order of dress.


It is, but our current #3 dress is just our #1s without medals. What I am suggesting is that we develop a wash and wear #3 dress for office use, and leave the #1s for parades and such. This would allow us to develop a practical and more professional looking uniform for daily use, while not impacting our fancy clothes, or our combat uniforms. 

The idea behind the old work dress wasn't bad, the problem was the materials and the cross over between it and #1s.


----------



## daftandbarmy (2 Feb 2021)

Furniture said:


> It is, but our current #3 dress is just our #1s without medals. What I am suggesting is that we develop a wash and wear #3 dress for office use, and leave the #1s for parades and such. This would allow us to develop a practical and more professional looking uniform for daily use, while not impacting our fancy clothes, or our combat uniforms.
> 
> The idea behind the old work dress wasn't bad, the problem was the materials and the cross over between it and #1s.



Or, you know, make sure that very, very few troops spend more time in the office than they do in the field.


----------



## Kilted (2 Feb 2021)

Maybe bring back the Garrison Dress, but in Khaki.  Add Velcro  patches for badges.  Allow for regimental customs, such as wearing peaked cap/glengarry and even the kilt (for ceremonial/formal functions) when appropriate.  Have this order of dress be the minimum order of dress that anyone can appear in public, meaning that CadPat would be restricted to travelling between home and work and special displayed in public.  Make it formal looking enough that it looks professional, but wearable enough that most tasks outside of a field setting can be done in it.


----------



## RangerRay (3 Feb 2021)

Navy_Pete said:


> Instead I got some shirt tucks (the magnet ones) that kept it tucked in and that seems to work okay.


What are these and where can I get them!


----------



## Navy_Pete (3 Feb 2021)

RangerRay said:


> What are these and where can I get them!


I'm sure there are others but tried these and would recommend them;

https://magnetuck.com/products/magnetuck

I've had mine for about six or seven years now and haven't noticed any loss of the magnetism (which is really strong). I've forgotten about them and they've gone through the wash a few times without coming apart, and have never had them come apart unless I've taken them off. I put mine on the front so they kind of sit just below the belt in the puffy bit from the pockets, so you can't see them at all, but definitely keep the shirt from blooming out like an overfilled muffin.


----------



## dimsum (3 Feb 2021)

Navy_Pete said:


> I'm sure there are others but tried these and would recommend them;
> 
> https://magnetuck.com/products/magnetuck
> 
> I've had mine for about six or seven years now and haven't noticed any loss of the magnetism (which is really strong). I've forgotten about them and they've gone through the wash a few times without coming apart, and have never had them come apart unless I've taken them off. I put mine on the front so they kind of sit just below the belt in the puffy bit from the pockets, so you can't see them at all, but definitely keep the shirt from blooming out like an overfilled muffin.


Interesting.  I wear the stirrup-style shirt stays on my mess kit and 3B shirts but they are inconvenient if you want to use the...uh...facilities.


----------



## Navy_Pete (3 Feb 2021)

Yeah, I'm a big fan. I've used those stirrup style ones as well but really like these ones. Once they are in place never really noticed them again, but did take a bit of trial and error to figure out where to put them so it was comfortable. I use two on the front and they kind of sit just under the belt line inside my hipbone and holds the shirt in place.

Not sure if you could put them on the back as well or if it would be comfortable, but definitely felt more presentable throughout the day and never felt the need to fix my shirt. Without them I normally fix my shirt pretty much everytime I stood up out of habit.

Anyway, much more practical then getting the cheap DEU shirts tailored only for them to last a few dozen wears, but also use it in civies, so pretty handy. Like the fact that you can just clip them onto any shirt your want with zero modifications, and the price seems fair given that you may never need more than one pair of them, unless you lose one or something. Plus in a pinch I used it to hang up a wet canex jacket on the outside of my locker to dry, so it's a pretty strong little magnet that you can play around with.


----------



## AKa (19 Feb 2021)

Furniture said:


> It is, but our current #3 dress is just our #1s without medals. What I am suggesting is that we develop a wash and wear #3 dress for office use, and leave the #1s for parades and such. This would allow us to develop a practical and more professional looking uniform for daily use, while not impacting our fancy clothes, or our combat uniforms.
> 
> The idea behind the old work dress wasn't bad, the problem was the materials and the cross over between it and #1s.


But the #3s are washable.  (Maybe not the tunics.) I've been machine washing and drying mine on delicate for the last decade.  Hang them up straight out of the dryer and they only take a couple minutes to iron.  Even when I wore them every day, I didn't find they wore out more quickly than those of my coworkers who dry cleaned theirs.  And shirts from the cleaners are seldom properly pressed.  

But admittedly, I am a dinosaur.


----------



## Kat Stevens (19 Feb 2021)

Back to the original question, how can you tell someone’s rank out of uniform? Don’t worry, their SO will tell you.


----------



## Haggis (19 Feb 2021)

Kilted said:


> Allow for regimental customs, such as wearing peaked cap/glengarry and even the kilt (for ceremonial/formal functions) when appropriate


The kilt sucks when worn daily in an office setting. Everyone loves a good pair of trews  worn with a snazzy tunic.  I always felt like this guy when I wore trews.


----------



## Maxman1 (13 Apr 2021)

dimsum said:


> Honestly, what drugs was the person who proposed this on?
> 
> It's one thing to be wearing combat clothing in an office environment, but to create a completely different uniform, specifically _not_ for the field, but making it camouflage?  wtf?



I think we have the questionable distinction of being the only army to wear OD combats in the field and camo in offices.


----------

