# Address by the Prime Minister



## Trinity (21 Apr 2005)

Its 1900hrs

Paul Martin is about to do a public speech.

Should be interesting.  Go watch it


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## COBRA-6 (21 Apr 2005)

"please, please don't fire me!! wait for a few months so everyone can forget about it"

the blood's in the water and I see fins...


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## Canadian Sig (21 Apr 2005)

We'll have a nice election as soon as this is all over...I promise! Ya right :dontpanic:


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## scm77 (21 Apr 2005)

Here is a transcript of his speech for anyone who missed it.

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=a98c8fc1-29b9-417b-ba90-9d4202e10da2


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## I_am_John_Galt (21 Apr 2005)

SO, if you're Mr. Harper do you still try to force an election right away, or do you wait?   ???


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## COBRA-6 (21 Apr 2005)

The Liberals would love nothing more than to delay an election as long as possible to allow voter outrage to fade with time... balls to that, seize the initiative and go for the throat!!!


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## Slim (21 Apr 2005)

Good speech...But too little, too late.


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## a_majoor (21 Apr 2005)

I liked the line about political jousting. Who has been doing most of the partisan jousting about the threats to health care, separatists etc? 

"Mr Dithers, is that you in the suit of armour?"


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## GDawg (22 Apr 2005)

Cool, this could be my new annual tradition, go to CFSCE and place an absentee vote in a federal election!


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## scm77 (22 Apr 2005)

Here are Harper, Layton and Duceppes responses for those who missed them.

Harper
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=32516dd0-051f-4d35-9328-05221925955b

Duceppes
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=92daa20f-57ef-424c-821d-63604eb8dfd0

Layton
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=a1f90417-e3c2-4436-8b91-a03b1de7cb18


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## onecat (22 Apr 2005)

" SO, if you're Mr. Harper do you still try to force an election right away, or do you wait?"

waiting is just what Martin wants.  If Harper waits till the report is made public he will have lost his chance and Canada will be stuck with more years of Liberal party corruption.  The report won't be released until the fall, it will be out of news for months by then... and Canadians will have forgotten how corrupt the Liberals are.  It will be a veru sad in Caandian history if we yet again elect these people to round our country.


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## Joe_McSweeney (22 Apr 2005)

*To recover taxpayers' money -- money that went to those who did not earn it -- I ordered my government to sue 19 people and companies for more than $40 million.*

Right, Call me a doubting Thomas but didn't the money go to the Lie-bral party anyway ( either directly or indirectly benefiting), so shouldn't they be the ones paying through the nose?????

*I committed to acting on the recommendations of Judge Gomery when he brings forth his final report. And I myself testified before his commission, answering any and all questions. 

Finally, I ordered that the Liberal party bring in auditors to conduct a forensic examination of its books and call in the RCMP to investigate what took place during that period.*

Not that I don't trust the dear old soul, however Mr. Martin isn't high on my "Worth While To Talk To" with regards to being told a _*TRUE*_ story.
Second...Lie-bral party auditors are being paid how??? And the RCMP with all due respect still are getting their cheques from whom???


Go ahead and call my suspicions "alienated westerner syndrome" but after all the goings on have come to light I just don't trust the lie-bral government anymore. Not that I did that much before, but at least I HAD respect for them...

I'M done.

All this of course is my own opinion, of course...

I'm probably just hallucinating...

Joe.


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## Slim (22 Apr 2005)

Time to let Steven Harper have a kick at the cat...


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## Sheerin (22 Apr 2005)

We'll be going to the polls in the next 8 to 12 weeks, sadly.  I also suspect that Martin will win another minority government.  I can't see the conservatives winning enough seats in Ontario to give them the win, and they most definitely won't win anything in Quebec.  

I personally believe we should let the Inquiry finish before we go to the polls again, but hey, I'm a simple minded Ontario voter.   

Do you honestly think the report will be out of the news cycle in the fall?  You are thinking about the Sponsorship scandal which has been going on since February of 2004, right?  
There is no danger of this falling off the publics radar, unless of course something major happens like you know, a nuclear holocaust... and even then I can see Stephen Harper and his ilk standing in the ruins of the House demanding that the smouldering ashes of Paul Martin confess.


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## Slim (22 Apr 2005)

Sheerin said:
			
		

> There is no danger of this falling off the publics radar, unless of course something major happens like you know, a nuclear holocaust... and even then I can see Stephen Harper and his ilk standing in the ruins of the House demanding that the smouldering ashes of Paul Martin confess.



How much more damage are the Liberals supposed to do before someone says enough!?


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## Jarnhamar (22 Apr 2005)

A_Majoor hit the nail on the head with a comment he made. 'Canadians just don't care'.   
Sad but true.

I have such a lack of faith in my government and fellow canadians who continue to support the liberals it's frustrating to the point of apathy.


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## Gager (22 Apr 2005)

Interesting .. 

Personally I don't trust any of them, and as you stated, others besides Harper have attended. Either way, Harper should shoot for an election sooner than later, as Martin is clearly fearing the prospect of losing power. Waiting runs the risk of testimony coming out that separate Martin from the scandal, or at least neutralize the anger around him. I'd rather have the full report, from a justice perspective, but from a political perspective, allegations (unfortunately) are all you need to damn someone in the eyes of the public.


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## winchable (22 Apr 2005)

The sheople of Canada will have soon forgotten how much money was wasted (I strongly suspect that the majority of the country doesn't realise how corrupt this whole situation is) and Harper will not win if he waits.
30 Days after the release of the report, it will already be forgotten by the public(re:not read) and the liberals will win again because that's comfortable.

_If he wants the government he should put his money where is mouth is_, take it now and sort things out, if not he should stop musing about it.

Will Harper be better?
Who knows, he hasn't gotten his turn at bat and it's about time we see if things can get better.
This is Canada, he will never have the mandate of the people to privatise healthcare.
The conservative agenda is, naturally, government non-involvment in private lives and social programs (as I said universal healthcare will not be taken away) if anything this scandal is proof positive that we need less involvement.
Canadian conservatism is still invovled in the afformentioned, which isn't a terrible thing I think it's a good kind of convservatism.

Will the Liberals Improve?
Experience says no.

So do we go on experience, or do we strap on the nuts and seek improvement.


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## mseop 935 (22 Apr 2005)

Hi all,

Just a quick question.  In PM Martin's interview afterwards, he stated that this is not a Liberal affair, it is a group of people, some of whom were Liberal.  I haven't followed the Gomery Commission religiously, so I may have missed something.  

Who has the inquiry implicated that was not a Liberal or a Liberal supporter?

Thanks.


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## George Wallace (22 Apr 2005)

mseop 935 said:
			
		

> Who has the inquiry implicated that was not a Liberal or a Liberal supporter?



There was some mention a couple of weeks ago that some of the monies were filtered into Bloc accounts.


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## mseop 935 (22 Apr 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> There was some mention a couple of weeks ago that some of the monies were filtered into Bloc accounts.



Just curious, did it seem to be going anywhere?  Would you remember who made the allegation?

Thanks


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## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Apr 2005)

From the little bit of Quebec news I watch the Bloc is taking political heat there also,.......but, once again, there really is no strong third party alternative there.
Maybe some of our Quebec-based posters could chip in here?


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## a_majoor (22 Apr 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> There was some mention a couple of weeks ago that some of the monies were filtered into Bloc accounts.



Since the entire stated purpose of the scheme was to fight separatists, that has to be the cruelest irony of all.....


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## larry Strong (22 Apr 2005)

I think it was Brault who brought it up in his testimony, at first the PQ denied it, then they said they were opening a bank account to collect it and give it back to the feds


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## McG (22 Apr 2005)

Sheerin said:
			
		

> I personally believe we should let the Inquiry finish before we go to the polls again, but hey, I'm a simple minded Ontario voter.


I'd also like to see an election held off until the inquiry is done.   I think voters deserve to hear what involvement (if any) _their_ MP had in this scandal.

The other reason that I'm not in a hurry to see an election has been suggested through a few news editorials over the past few weeks.   An election today would likely produce another minority government.   The Conservatives have risen above the Liberals and might even take more seats, but I expect that the left would still come out on top (with the Liberals, Bloc, and NDP).   I'd rather not spend the next 4-5 years under a left coalition government


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## I_am_John_Galt (22 Apr 2005)

MCG said:
			
		

> I'd also like to see an election held off until the inquiry is done.  I think voters deserve to hear what involvement (if any) _their_ MP had in this scandal.



As long as Martin remains as PM, he retains _some _degree of control over the inquiry: one cannot help but wonder if his fears of losing an election before Gomery is complete goes beyond a sincere desire to "leave no stone unturned" ...


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## Pieman (22 Apr 2005)

> An election today would likely produce another minority government.   The Conservatives have risen above the Liberals and might even take more seats, but I expect that the left would still come out on top (with the Liberals, Bloc, and NDP).   I'd rather not spend the next 4-5 years under a left coalition government



Neither would I, but really this is certainly how things are looking, isn't it? If   a minority conservative government was the election result, I can't help but wonder if the Conservatives would be able to keep control. We could be at the polls again this time next year 

But really, everything depends on the voter sway in central Canada, and being from the west I can only make guesses at how deep of an impact this situation is having. Do people here feel that people in central Canada are really reacting to the situation, or are they shrugging their shoulders at it?


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## Jarnhamar (22 Apr 2005)

Just watched the whole address.

That inturperter really dropped the ball.

Did they just grab that guy off the street or what?   Dummy. Way to make an ass of yourself infront of the nation   

I think they should wait until the whole report comes out.
The last thing we need is an election where canadians, being the clever little souls they are, vote the liberals in again. Imagine the power trip they would be on.
"We can take money out of their pockets and they still vote for us!"

I gotta say it pissed me off hearing the PM commenting on how other important matters are being side lined. What the hell.
You know, i really can't think of a more important matter than a countries government lying to them and stealing their money. Millions and Millions of dollars.   

You want to talk about health care being swept aside? How many lives would have been saved with all that money placed in health care instead of liberal pockets.


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## GENOMS Soilder (22 Apr 2005)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> You want to talk about health care being swept aside? How many lives would have been saved with all that money placed in health care instead of liberal pockets.



Well said....

I think its time for the Libs to step down and stop yanking at our chain(even though most Canadians respond :-\)
Who knows if Harper will be better-Hell, maybe the Green Party will get a sweeping majority and we won't have to cut our lawns anymore ;D
But seriously, this Liberal 'Power' is getting tiresome
.......time for some new corruption ;D


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## Brad Sallows (22 Apr 2005)

>Finally, I ordered that the Liberal party bring in auditors to conduct a forensic examination of its books and call in the RCMP to investigate what took place during that period.

How amusing. Why didn't this paragon of integrity call for this in the first place instead of that earlier whitewash "audit"?  An opportunity to do the right thing in that regard already arose and was passed up.


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## larry Strong (22 Apr 2005)

Probably because he hoped it would all go away, without having to do anything serious about it


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## I_am_John_Galt (23 Apr 2005)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> >Finally, I ordered that the Liberal party bring in auditors to conduct a forensic examination of its books and call in the RCMP to investigate what took place during that period.
> 
> How amusing. Why didn't this paragon of integrity call for this in the first place instead of that earlier whitewash "audit"?  An opportunity to do the right thing in that regard already arose and was passed up.



The mind boggles ... why didn't every network have interviews with representatives from major accounting firms explaining what horsesh*t it is to describe what they did as an "audit"?

How gullible are we?


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## larry Strong (23 Apr 2005)

From what I understand, they were doing a "Forensic Audit" and the report was supposed to be submitted to the Gomery Inquiry last week.


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## I_am_John_Galt (23 Apr 2005)

larry Strong said:
			
		

> From what I understand, they were doing a "Forensic Audit" and the report was supposed to be submitted to the Gomery Inquiry last week.



What they did was a _Review_, not an _Audit_: I'm not splitting hairs here, because the two are very differant things.  An Audit confirms that transactions were genuine, and that all transactions were reported, and reported properly.  A Review is simply a confirmation by an accountant that the information provided to them has been correctly reported: a review does not confirm the veracity of the transactions, nor does it provide any speculation or inquiry into any transactions or items that have not bee reported.

In the case of what the Liberals are calling an "Audit" they ask the accountants (PwC & Deloitte, IIRC) to look at a few (four?) accounts and confirm that the transactions indicated by the Liberals are supported by the correct documention and correctly reported (although not a confirmation that the supporting documentation is genuine), which is a "Forensic Accounting Review".

At the end of the day, what it means is that Accountants are confirming that the Liberals have documentation to support what they say are some genuine transactions in a few accounts: there is no suggestion of anything else, particularly WRT any other transactions in these, _or other_, accounts.  Unless the Liberals were so stupid as to steal taxpayer money, report it but not create the supporting documentation and then _tell the accountants_ that it was a legitimate transaction in one of these specific accounts, this "audit" would not detect a thing.


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## I_am_John_Galt (25 Apr 2005)

I_am_John_Galt said:
			
		

> The mind boggles ... why didn't every network have interviews with representatives from major accounting firms explaining what horsesh*t it is to describe what they did as an "audit"?



Timely article:


> *CBC killed liberal audit story*
> 
> Last week, after my research (here and here) on the Liberals 'Audits' created a firestorm in the media and the House of Commons, *I received an email from a CBC investigative journalist wanting to do a piece on the story. He was planning on investigating the conflict of interest regarding the Liberals and the accounting firms that had conducted the 'audits'.
> 
> ...


_ http://mkbraaten.blogspot.com/2005/04/cbc-killed-liberal-audit-story.html_


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## George Wallace (27 Apr 2005)

Now, here is a popular Ottawa Journalist, who has his finger on the pulse of the nation:



http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Ottawa/Earl_McRae/2005/04/26/1012928.html



> Tue, April 26, 2005
> 
> 
> PM, sweep advice under rug
> ...


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## I_am_John_Galt (27 Apr 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> what action are you going to take against the perpetrators who have such disrespect for the people of Canada, and truth and honesty, and the integrity of government, that, through "tons" of advice, they wanted you to "hide this thing," to "put it under the rug?"



More pardons than a drunken butler at Buckingham Palace ...


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## a_majoor (28 Apr 2005)

Now of course, Mr Layton has settled on his price. Through the use of blackmail, he has managed to institute the program of the Non Democratic Party, despite the fact it has no mandate to do so, and as part of the bargain, will support a government which is broken, adrift and has lost its moral authoraty to govern.

Not bad for $4 billion.


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## Infanteer (28 Apr 2005)

What else did you expect from a guy who has the air of a used-car salesman?


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## McG (28 Apr 2005)

I think the budget was written to get Conservative support and keep the Liberal government in power.  Now that the Conservatives have made it clear they intend to take down the government, it is not surprising that the Liberals would find the next most likely party to keep them alive.  Buy making it a clear crusade to oust the Liberals, Harper has now forced them into the coalition of the left that I hoped not to see.

He'd better hope he is able to force an election (or at least force the GG to invite him to try forming a government).  If not, then all he will have achieved is to establish a Liberal government that is further left and less inclined to negotiate with the right.


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## Brad Sallows (28 Apr 2005)

It's not clear to me at this point that Layton "bought" anything of substance.  As near as I can tell he has accepted what amounts to a third-party cheque for his services.  Wait'll Martin finishes clawing back parts of the agreement, and calculate whether any of it actually pays out before the next election before judging that Layton made a good deal.


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