# Do you need permission to skydive?



## dariel (8 May 2012)

I remember hearing from someone that you need to ask permission to go skydiving with a civilian organization. I disregarded the statement thinking I'd never go, but now it's looking like I may have the opportunity to try it after all.

A little bit about my situation: I'm an OCdt with basic training, no more, and I'm presently attending university to become a nurse under the ROTP program. I wanted to know if it is true that I need to ask permission and if so, would a simple email suffice or do I have to throw myself to the wolves by trying to pass a memo through the CoC in Ottawa? Thanks in advance for the info!

Cheers!


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## medicineman (8 May 2012)

Talk to your ULO...they should be able to help you there.

MM


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## Blackadder1916 (8 May 2012)

The applicable CF regulation that deals with (or at least used to deal with) sport parachuting is CFAO 50-7.  Since CFAOs are no longer available in the internet, a up-to-date version is not available to me but I do have a version (which I cannot guarantee to be current) from an old CD.



> CFAO 50-7
> 
> SPORT PARACHUTING
> 
> ...



Needing permission to skydive is used to be a grey area, however it was common for the above CFAO to be cited as the guidance requiring everyone to ask permission before jumping out of perfectly functioning aircraft.  During my service I had to conduct a couple of SIs involving individuals who sustained injuries when they went jumping without informing their CoC (in the 1980s).  If my memory serves me right (because it was contemplated charging them as well as the potential of recovering medical costs) the JAG opinion was that their activity was their own recreation and thus a private matter (we still attempted to recover medical costs from private insurers).  It was much the same outcome in my own case which predated those incidents by nearly a decade.

The advice to check with your ULO is the best way to go.  Regardless of his response, keep in mind that if you sustain injuries as a result it could affect your career and may not necessarily be covered for pension/insurance purposes.


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## Journeyman (8 May 2012)

Once again......





			
				Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> ...before jumping out of perfectly functioning aircraft.



...before jumping into perfectly good air. There's a reason it's called "skydiving" and not "plane-leaving."   :nod:


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## Michael OLeary (8 May 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Once again......
> ...before jumping into perfectly good air. There's a reason it's called "skydiving" and not "plane-leaving."   :nod:



... except for when it's called "bailing out."


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## midget-boyd91 (8 May 2012)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> ... except for when it's called "bailing out."



Bailing out "in style!!"
And many smaller dropzones aircraft look less than "perfectly functioning" ...  ;D


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## Bigmac (12 May 2012)

The CFAO that is being quoted is related to military unit run recreational programs. It is basically letting CO's know their responsibilities in sanctioning recreation skydiving as a military unit activity. 

The poster was asking about doing recreational skydiving on their own time.


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## PuckChaser (12 May 2012)

uncle-midget-Oddball said:
			
		

> Bailing out "in style!!"
> And many smaller dropzones aircraft look less than "perfectly functioning" ...  ;D



Yeah, at Skydive Gan I think I was more scared of having to land in that plane on that strip than leaving the aircraft at 9500 feet.


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## Takeniteasy (12 May 2012)

You do not need permission from your COC to participate in recreational parachuting.  Do not let anyone tell you otherwise.  As a regular force member you are covered under Blue Cross (military health care) for any injury or illness sustained at anytime.  If you were a civilian then you would fall under provincial health care plans.  No one in Canada is turned away from required health care services.  I am not sure if OCdt do the express test but if you do then indicate on the form all the sports you do recreationally, depending on the profession you are entering skydiving could be looked at as an asset and contributing to your overall operational readiness.

You most likely cannot find insurance for skydiving, diving, mountain climbing,  most if not all extreme sports are excluded from insurance polices.  If they do include them then your premium would be quiet high. 

Also the military would not try to recover costs for injuries sustained during recreational skydiving or any other activity for that matter,  that is an OLD Military URBAN LEGEND,  I heard that many times when I was in the army and posted with the RCR.  More of a control tactic.... if I only knew back then what I know now!!!....

Go out and enjoy the experience,  as anything extreme pay attention and follow the rules of the sport.  You will gain a different perspective and gain situational awareness like no other....


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## Occam (12 May 2012)

IRONMAN3 said:
			
		

> You most likely cannot find insurance for skydiving, diving, mountain climbing,  most if not all extreme sports are excluded from insurance polices.  If they do include them then your premium would be quiet high.



I'm pretty sure SISIP insurance still covers you for all the above.  I would call and confirm, though.


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## Blackadder1916 (13 May 2012)

IRONMAN3 said:
			
		

> . . . .
> 
> Also the military would not try to recover costs for injuries sustained during recreational skydiving or any other activity for that matter,  that is an OLD Military URBAN LEGEND,  I heard that many times when I was in the army and posted with the RCR.  More of a control tactic.... if I only knew back then what I know now!!!....



Actually, it's not a "legend".  While recovery of medical (and lost time salary) costs for injuries sustained both on and off duty were never directly assessed against a member, recovery action was often taken against third parties deemed responsible for the accident/injuries.  During my service, (especially during my postings as a Hosp Adm O) I was personally involved in a number of such recovery actions.  The CFMS's role was to calculate the medical costs (pay and other costs would similarly be done by others) and forward them to the legal world via the Comd Surg.   By happenstance, I have an old OLTRS disk that includes the SurgGen directive that was one of the references we used.



> 1243-6 TD 5039 (DMAR)
> 
> 10 APRIL, 1985
> 
> ...



The above directive has probably been superceded by now but third party claims are likely still being made.  As I said above, *claims for costs were not made against the serving members who were injured*, but there were rare cases when serving members (or more properly their insurance companies) were the third party.  When a member was injured in an accident it was a wise move if he contacted the JAG and coordinated any legal action that he was taking as an individual with any possible recovery action the department was taking.  There were instances when members received settlements that included payments to cover medical, lost pay and similar costs; they were surprised when the recovery action for that part of the settlement was made to them.


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