# At the pub



## RogersD (17 Feb 2010)

Hello all,

I’ve tried searching up my question in the forums here and can’t seem to find anything. Google provides mixed results and all are about the US aside from one.

Hypothetical situation:

You and a friend are both new to the army. You both have just finished up at the base and it’s later on in the evening, say about 22:30. A bunch of friends from out of town are at a local pub that is on your way home and you want to stop in to say hello for 5 or 10 minutes. You’re still in uniform but are not drinking. You assume this is okay as you’ve seen navy folk in the pub for lunch and have seen other army guys in there having a beer after work (all in uniform). You're 30 seconds in side the door and are promptly chewed out in front of everyone by some guy in the CF.

Is it not acceptable to be in uniform at a pub even when you are not drinking?

Any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## gcclarke (17 Feb 2010)

I don't particularly recall any prohibitions against being in uniform in a bar from when I read through the dress manual or the code of service discipline. Of course, it's entirely possible that there is some regulation hidden somewhere else. That having been said, like you mentioned, the practice is rather bloody common, so I have a feeling that if it was actually prohibited, this would come up a lot. It doesn't, therefore I have a feeling there is no regulation against it. So, as long as you don't drink enough in said pub to fall under the definition of "drunkenness", you're probably good to go. And, of course, I highly doubt there is anything out there that states it is fine to be in a bar at 1200, but not past 2000. Personally, I've never let being in uniform stop me from heading off to grab a pint or two. 

Your mileage may vary, with regard to any orders issued by local authorities (Unit, Base, Section, etc).


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## RogersD (17 Feb 2010)

Thanks a bunch for the reply. It sets me at ease. The whole situation still irks me. Not the message so much as how he went about it.

Thanks again.


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## Kat Stevens (17 Feb 2010)

Wow, that's a really detailed hypothetical.  I would check with base routine orders and standing orders for the local policy with regard to being in any drinking establishment in uniform after hours.  for instance, in Chilliwack in the 80's, you'd better not have been caught in a bar after 19:00 in uniform, drinking or not.


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## RogersD (17 Feb 2010)

Thank you kindly for the post. I'll check those out.


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## Nfld Sapper (17 Feb 2010)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Wow, that's a really detailed hypothetical.  I would check with base routine orders and standing orders for the local policy with regard to being in any drinking establishment in uniform after hours.  for instance, in Chilliwack in the 80's, you'd better not have been caught in a bar after 19:00 in uniform, drinking or not.



At Griffins same applies but I still remember closing that place down in uniform and hearing other members on this means doing the same.........


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## Loachman (17 Feb 2010)

RogersD said:
			
		

> You're 30 seconds in side the door and are promptly chewed out in front of everyone by some guy in the CF.



How do you know that he was in the CF, hypothetically speaking of course?


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## RogersD (17 Feb 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> How do you know that he was in the CF, hypothetically speaking of course?



At first I could just tell by the way he was speaking. Not wanting our egos to be bruised that badly we left, changed into civvy clothes and went back to drink... not something we had intended on doing in the first place. On the way back my friend asked me why one of the workers at the pub would tell us to leave like that. I said it wasn't a worker and it was a CF member. When we got back to the bar my friend from out of town was still there and said that the guy had come back to their table to apologize for being a "douche bag" but that we would have gotten in major trouble if a higher-up had seen us (which I find odd and obviously my reason for posting). And later on that evening I heard the guy and his friends talking about what they do in the navy and such.


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## rmc_wannabe (17 Feb 2010)

As stated, check your Base ROs. 

Even so, use some situational awareness regardless of what the written rules are.

I know out here in Edmo there are a number of establishments where it is common place to see members in uniform enjoying a pint. If you were hitting up a nightclub on Jasper Ave or the "ballet" on 97st. lets say... then you might want to rethink your strategy.

Just some food for thought.


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## RogersD (18 Feb 2010)

Thanks for the post. 
So I shouldn't head to cowboys in full dress? Kidding. I left Edm a year ago but will be going back for courses in a couple of months.

Thanks again.


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## 1feral1 (18 Feb 2010)

Hummmm, firstly I would never go into a pub in uniform, shy of ANZAC Day or similar ceremonial times, and that too depends on the circumstances.

In Australia it would be normal to change into coat/tie for SNCO and officers and neat casual for ORs for outing to pubs etc.

With a war on, and an unpopular one at that, there are plenty of DHs out there, and the last thing any of us want to do is cause a scene in uniform.

The bloke that chewed you out was an idiot.

If someone had an issue, he should have spoke to you in private and used some professional discretion. I would have had him produce an ID card and the shoe would have been on the other foot, obtaing his unit and if possible his RSM so he knew what was coming  .  No one would ever get away with publicly humiliating me for no reason because of some power trip.  

Cheers,

OWDU


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## RogersD (18 Feb 2010)

Thanks for the reply! I've read a bunch of your stuff on here and I was hoping that you would respond to my post.

My friend saw him this evening and confronted him about the situation and indeed brought up the issue of professionalism (or lack there of). The guy apologized and that was that. He was drunk the other night (or seemed to be) and the last thing I wanted was a big confrontation in a public place. Sometimes the bigger man just has to walk away to keep the situation under control and thankfully we did just that.

Thanks again to everyone who posted. Muchly appreciated!


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## CorporalMajor (18 Feb 2010)

Another factor isn't just rules, but how popular the military might be in a given town.  OverWatch Downunder raises an excellent point. 

I recall reading from a reservist in Montreal, on some Facebook group, that his unit leadership directed their people to AVOID wearing uniform in public, even to and fro your place of duty.  Now I know that's only RUMINT, but antiwar sentiment in MTL has been pretty strong, so I don't find it hard to beleive.

You should look at your local/regimental standing orders.  However your best defence against getting is trouble is using better judgement and common sense.  

Case in point:  Some kid in my unit decided to wear his uniform off duty in public every now and then, just for the hell of it.  Not sure what he was trying to prove, but he got caught doing it at thedowntown mall, and the RSM found out.  On the next parade night, the RSM then had everyone at attention and told us what he thought about it.  :rage:  :nod:


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## Pusser (18 Feb 2010)

To the best of my knowledge, there are no CF regulations that prohibit the wearing of uniforms in drinking establishments; however, there may be local policies.  For Halifax and Esquimalt, the major consideration was always which uniform was worn.  Service dress was OK, but work dress was not.  Mind you, my memory goes back to the time when you could wear work dress to and from work, but couldn't stop to buy a loaf of bread en route.  I don't think there is any adult in either Halifax or Esquimalt that hasn't seen a bunch of sailors stumbling into a downtown bar after a mess dinner in full regalia.  It's quite common.  In foreign ports, there's nothing quite like a "rig run" where you attract all the prettiest attention by hitting the town in uniform (especially whites).  Alas, this is sadly lost on many young sailors today who wouldn't be caught dead in a club in uniform.  You just can't convince them that attracting the local talent with a sharp uniform is so much easier than being dressed the same as everybody else.  Remember the scene in the bar in Top Gun where they sing?  It works!  But I digress.

There is nothing wrong with wearing your uniform into a bar and having a drink.  However, when you do so, you are being watched, so your conduct must be impeccable.  There ARE regulations about discredible or disgraceful conduct.  My advice is to confine yourself to reputable establishments (the local biker bar with regular brawls should probably be avoided) and stay on the conservative side with your actions. Dancing on the bar is probably best saved for a night when you're not in uniform.  In short, use common sense, don't get absolutely plastered and puke on anybody's shoes (don't ask me how I know this), avoid controversial/confrontational conversation and enjoy yourself!


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## Steel Badger (18 Feb 2010)

As Pusser states there may be local policies / directives.

For example, at the present time the Comd of 31 Bde has directed that no 31 Bde pers will attend pubs etc in uniform. 
As this does not apply to Reg and Nav Res pers in the area, they do go for a wee dram in uniform and, in the main, behave themselves admirably.

Cheers 
SB


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## 1feral1 (19 Feb 2010)

RogersD said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply! I've read a bunch of your stuff on here and I was hoping that you would respond to my post.



Thanks for the kind words mate.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Fishbone Jones (19 Feb 2010)

......and that's that. To sum up, check with your CoC and Base\ Unit\ Routine & Standing Orders. As a general rule, when in doubt, don't be a donkey when in uniform.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


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