# WW2 Canadian Army Formation Badge Question



## OldTanker (24 Aug 2010)

The Canadian Scottish Regiment Museum recently had a WW2 battledress blouse donated. It belonged to one of our sergeants who served overseas with the Regiment during the war. The blouse has a formation badge located on the left epaulette, but we have been unable to identify what it signifies, or why it is on the epaulette. We have been able to find the same badge on the internet on a vendor's site, but with no identifying information. It is similar to the 21st Army badge (shown on the accompanying picture) but without the crossed swords. Can anybody provide some insight into this? Thanks.


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## Michael OLeary (24 Aug 2010)

From Clive Law's Distinguishing Patches, the first (blue cross on red shield) is 21st Army Group (UK) and the other (with swords) is HQ 21st Army Group (UK).


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## OldTanker (24 Aug 2010)

Thanks for the prompt response. Any idea why this badge would be worn on the epaulette and by a sergeant who so far as we know was always on regimental duty? We have not been able to find any other examples of this badge being worn by other members of the regiment.


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## Michael OLeary (24 Aug 2010)

You'll need a look at his service record to be sure.

The Canadian Section 1st Echelon, Headquarters 1st Army Group, consisted of 53 officers and 143 other ranks. - from _Operational Handbook for the First Canadian Army, 1944-1945,_ by John R Grodzinski


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## Blackadder1916 (24 Aug 2010)

Though it doesn't address the specific circumstances of the battledress jacket donated to the museum, I did find this which indicates that wearing formation badges on epaulettes was not unheard of.

http://www.petergh.f2s.com/flashes.html


> In tropical kit areas, such as the Middle East and Far East, the formation badges were often worn affixed to the sleeves of Kahki Drill jackets by means of press studs to facilitate laundering, or even *worn stitched onto slip-on epaulettes for wearing on the shoulders of K.D, shirts*; this was also the method *used in the hot summer months in Italy*.



There is also this photo (from NAC) which was captioned "Repatriating troops take a last look at England, 21 June 1945".  Note the PPCLI corporal (lower left at the railing) with a formation badge (8th Army?) on his left epaulette.


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## XMP (25 Aug 2010)

At the end of the war a number of soldiers returning to Canada were wearing 21st Army group or 8th Army formation patches on an epaulette.  Most of these soldiers had served in Italy under those formations and proudly wore the single patch to indicate  service as a "D-Day Dodger".  It is more common to see uniforms from formations that served in Italy ie: 1st Canadian Infantry Div and 5th Canadian Armoured Div so badged. The Canadian Scottish were part of 7th Infantry Bde, 3rd Canadian Infantry Div, so that 21st Army Group  formation patch on the epaulette is unusual. Possibly he was a transfer from another unit? Below is an example of a Perth Regiment (5th Canadian Amd Div) jacket with the 8th Army patch on the epaulette.


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## exspy (28 Aug 2010)

OT,

My two cents regarding your question is the following.  Every Canadian unit War Establishment (Infantry, Artillery, Armour etc) during the Second World War had two bodies of men that were a part of the WE but not a part of the unit's fighting strength.  These were the First Reinforcements and the Details Left at Base.

First Reinforcements for an Infantry Battalion was about 160 men (Officers and ORs) of all ranks and varying qualifications who, as the name suggests, would be instantly ready to assume the places of men in the parent unit who had become casualties.  They wore the same uniforms and insignia of the parent unit as they were a part of it.

The Details Left at Base consisted of one person, an Orderly Room Sergeant, Trade Level "C", who was located with the 2nd Echelon of GHQ.  Each unit had one.  They were a part of their unit and wore the appropriate uniform and insignia.  While in Britain the Canadian 2nd Echelon was a part of the GHQ for Home Forces.  After the invasion it was a part of the GHQ for 21st Army Group and located in NW Europe.

It's possible (I'm only guessing here) that the uniform you have once belonged to the Canadian Scottish Orderly Room Sergeant that was located at 2nd Echelon.  I do not know what type of formation patch the Orderly Room Sergeant would wear.  Does the uniform you have sport the 3rd Division patch?

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Dan.


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