# Want to join Army Cadets........



## Ross Cadet (11 Jan 2004)

Hi, i think i‘m gonna join army cadets, but I don‘t know much about it. 
I want to know what is involved, what you get to do, what to avoid and what to ask for.

Also, what rifles do you get to shoot???   :soldier:   

Thanks for replying!


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## Ross Cadet (11 Jan 2004)

I hear you get to shoot the C7 on semi?
I also heard you get to shoot the Lee Enfield?

Are these true?

Thanks for any info!


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## leopard11 (11 Jan 2004)

you do get to fire the c7 on semi automatic, (once you are 16 years old or in silver star, or you do a CLI course in the summer)
and you do also get to fire the lee enfield .22 and .303


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## Spartan (11 Jan 2004)

c7 fam firing are becoming rarer, 
as for lee enfield firing, isn‘t it being phased out as well to air daisy;s


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## East Side Soprano (11 Jan 2004)

I believe that the .303 Lee Enfield is used onlu in CLI Drill and Ceremonial and only with blank rounds, I‘ve never heard of people shooting it live. C7s are fired at every CLI course I believe. For more info on the program visit www.cadets.net


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## patt (11 Jan 2004)

i‘ve done D&C at blackdown u do get to shoot the .22 on parade during sundet,and final parade in that time you‘ll get alot of pratice...Basic (2 weeks) shoot the Dasiy! CL (6 weeks) gets to shoot the .22  and the CLI (6weeks) gets to shoot the C7 with LIVE ammo


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## Sundborg (11 Jan 2004)

At my corps we fire both the leeanfield .22 version and the Daisy Air rifles.


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## leopard11 (11 Jan 2004)

patty,

you did not get to shoot the Lee Enfield no.7 .22calibre on sunset, you fired the Lee Enfield no. 4 .303 Calibre.  the .22‘s are not loud enough to use in a feu de joie.


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## patt (11 Jan 2004)

oops my bad lol, i really hated it cuz they used the oil on the wood of them at final parade and it stained my shirt


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## Cadet810 (11 Jan 2004)

I hate the air daisys.


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## leopard11 (11 Jan 2004)

the daisy 853-C air rifle is a magnificent weapon for use in cadets. it is excellent to teach new cadets firing procedures, weapons maintenance, and all the marksmanship principles that go along with it. On top of all of that it is a very safe weapon, therefore if a new cadet screws up on his first time on the range, and actually shoots somebody by accident, it wont cause much damage(unless someone isnt wearing proper eye defenders). The daisy shoots very accurately for its specified range, it is very easy to clean, and maintain.     Cadet810, maybe you should review why it is you dont like the "air daisys" and possibly list some of those reasons here.


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## Jason Jarvis (11 Jan 2004)

> *Originally posted by leopard11:*
> the daisy 853-C air rifle is a magnificent weapon for use in cadets. it is excellent to teach new cadets firing procedures, weapons maintenance, and all the marksmanship principles that go along with it. On top of all of that it is a very safe weapon, therefore if a new cadet screws up on his first time on the range, and actually shoots somebody by accident, it wont cause much damage(unless someone isnt wearing proper eye defenders). The daisy shoots very accurately for its specified range, it is very easy to clean, and maintain. Cadet810, maybe you should review why it is you dont like the "air daisys" and possibly list some of those reasons here.


Excellent post leopard11. Teaching marksmanship on the 853C is MUCH easier than it was with the C No. 7. For starters, the Daisy is half the weight of the No. 7, with none of the noise and several times greater accuracy. I would even put it above any of the Anschutz variants issued at one time to cadets "back in the day." My biggest complaint with the Daisy is it‘s lousy creepy trigger and so-so sights. All that aside, I rate it as a top notch training rifle.

For those cadets who complain it‘s not a "real gun," I say grow up and be glad you still have the ability to learn to shoot at all -- there was a real possibility in the mid-1990s that marksmanship would disappear altogether. Cooler heads prevailed against the anti-gun hysteria, however, and the decision was made to shift to air rifles. This move has greatly increased overall participation in marksmanship training in all three elements right across the country.

And there‘s always summer camp. . . .


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## Ross Cadet (11 Jan 2004)

Thanks, I am gonna join soon!


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## Franko (13 Jan 2004)

First things first. Are you all sniffing glue? The Daisy is apiece poo I‘ve ever had to coach with on the ranges. So much so I dumped it and went with the No 7 Enfield. As for Leopard11 comment"therefore if a new cadet screws up on his first time on the range, and actually shoots somebody by accident, it wont cause much damage" are you for real? If you let a cadet actually get to the point where he/she is able to do this YOU should be shot! I don‘t know where you guys are getting your info, but it isn‘t from YEARS of experience with coaching cadets on ranges. As for the weight of the C-7 I get the troops to use C-8s instead at the 100m mark, grouping of 8inches max. Anything outside don‘t count. As for accuracy, if you know how to sight in and confirm the MPI of the C-7 you can‘t compare it to a BB gun. Sorry to say it, but the Daisy is NOT a good training aid for shooting. I‘ve seen it a thousand times where the CIC coddle the cadets and then finally after YEARS of playing with a BB gun they finally get to shoot a real weapon. They flinch, get horrible groupings because they are AFRAID of the weapon. I‘ve even had one MALE cadet(sgt) CRY because he was afraid.
BB guns are for scouts not for cadets. We are trying to teach and instill some pride and confidence in the young troops, not scare the poo out of them

As for the idea of the wusses getting the whole firearms out of cadets, it wasn‘t that close. I know the director of the League at that time and he assured me that it was mostly a RUMOR that got way out of hand based loosely on some bad info.  

BTW..my cadets have shot the 303 Lee Enfield(known by it‘s designation) No.4. They will be firing it this year as well. Of course it with the guidelines, but you all know that.  

Wannabe....sign up and have a great time. I had the time of my life when I joined(83) and never regretted it. Got qualified so much that I had it easy when I joined up in militia. Now I‘m in the Regs...still instructing cadets and having a blast. Do you know what corps you‘ll be joining?
Oh well...just remember to have fun and listen to the RSM    

Now on to...

Jason....Anschutz less accurate than a Daisy? Who are you kidding. If it was that bad, why are they in professional tournaments all over the world? Back in the day was what, 1988? Do you even rememberthe FN C1A1? Probably not. Have you ever shot CFSAC or competed for Bisley? No don‘t answer. I have the lists from the past 15 years.

Please guys...if you‘re going to give out advise and your wisdom, get it right. Don‘t mislead chaps that want to join up with something that someone else spouted off. I‘m not here to attack anyone by any means. I just have heard this so much that it just makes this tanker(yes, a REAL tanker) mad.

Cheers


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## bagpiper (13 Jan 2004)

^^^ Well Said

(Is now a Warrant Officer)


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## Jarnhamar (13 Jan 2004)

I get the troops to use C-8s instead at the 100m mark, grouping of 8inches max

Are C8‘s that inaccurate? I‘ve never fired one. I tell my guys at 100 meters int he prone they should have atleast 3 out of 5 rounds inside a single square patch and thats average.


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## Ross Cadet (13 Jan 2004)

Thanks you guys, I will take your advice.
I‘m joining the North Vancouver corp. 
If I like cadets, I‘ll join the army, (Which i plan on doing anyway)


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## Jason Jarvis (13 Jan 2004)

> Jason....Anschutz less accurate than a Daisy? Who are you kidding. If it was that bad, why are they in professional tournaments all over the world? Back in the day was what, 1988? Do you even rememberthe FN C1A1? Probably not. Have you ever shot CFSAC or competed for Bisley? No don‘t answer. I have the lists from the past 15 years.


Oh brother. I‘m a civilian smallbore shooter, Franko, and I started shooting in air cadets 15 years ago. I‘m not CIC because I‘m a V6/CV3 and so the CF doesn‘t want me. No, I‘ve never shot the FN C1A1. Never been to CFSAC or Bisley either. I hold an SFC Expert prone rating, and until my son was born in 2000 was averaging 582 at 20 yds and 50 m. I‘ve gotten a little rusty since then but have been able to hold my own. Until my son is a little older, I‘m focusing on coaching. If you want pound chests, PM me.

But I have put more than a few thousand rounds downrange through a C No. 7, ditto for the previously-issued Anschutz 1403, and am in the process of trying to wring the most usefulness out of the 853C. So far, and despite everything I‘d heard about the rifle, I‘m finding the 853C to be a success. With the current issue Crosman pellets, the dozen or so 853Cs that I‘ve shot have all been capable of punching 10 mm (edge to edge) groups at 10 m, which is more than adequate for training and competition purposes.

Cadets were never issued world-class Anschutz rifles, they were issued the Match 64 action 1403, an accurate but only beginner to intermediate level rifle. When fired with issue CIL or T22 ammo, and in the hands of a competent shooter, it was consistently capable of 96-98 on the old DND 20 yd target. If you got a batch of ammo that was especially good, you might‘ve been able to shoot the odd century, but they were few and far in between. When shot with Tenex -- as they were at the cadet smallbore nationals from 1990-92 (when I was there) -- then scores in the 97-99 range were common among the top five shooters, and several 100s were shot each year. This won‘t hold a candle to my Anschutz 1413 with its heavy Match 54 action, barrel and 200 g trigger, which at 30 years of age will still punch little-bitty holes at 50 m all day.

Finally, there‘s always an adjustment to be made when moving from one rifle to another. I have a cadet who just started shooting the 853C in September and who transitioned to a 1403 for biathlon with no problems whatsoever. Her position is good, focus is excellent and accuracy consistent with very few flyers. Now, if she‘d just shoot -- and ski -- a little faster, she might be a threat. Smallbore to fullbore is another matter altogether, and one that I‘m not qualified to comment on. However, I certainly wouldn‘t let one of my cadets go from an air rifle to a C7 -- and especially not an FN -- without first learning how to properly and accurately shoot a .22 LR (even if it was just the No. 7).

But the 853C is still better than nothing, and I‘m going to squeeze every last drop out of every single one that comes my way.


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## badpup (14 Jan 2004)

I am certain you will enjoy the Cadet experience Wannabe, don‘t let this off topic, banter cloud your vision of cadets, it was, is and always will be a great organization, whether it‘s Army, Air or Sea. The friendships you will make, will last a lifetime. I was an Air cadet over 20 years ago, and I still maintain links, with a number of people from those days. In fact I liked it so much I have once again returned to assist the local Army Cadet Corps. There is a lot of fun to be had, but it will also take a lot of discipline, and work on your part to get the most out of it. Take Care.


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## Franko (14 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Ghost778:
> [qb]
> 
> Are C8‘s that inaccurate? I‘ve never fired one. I tell my guys at 100 meters int he prone they should have atleast 3 out of 5 rounds inside a single square patch and thats average. [/qb]


No they are very accurate. Most times its the cadet themselve who do poorly, due mostly to nerves and self imposed stress.


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## Franko (14 Jan 2004)

Jason....My response was in essence to the very blunt comments that you made in reference to the Daisys being more accurate than the Anshutz. Now that you‘ve clarified your POV, I agree. Although I personnally get our weapons looked after by a weapons tech and a civvy gun smith on a very regular basis, the accuracy is absolutly outstanding. As for ammo, we buy ours when we can, all match of course and loaded by the same gun smith. The man is a guru.

As for getting the cadets to shoot Daisys first prior to shooting larger caliber weapons, I still waver at the thought. Although the student learns BATH-P in a warm environment and out of the elements, in my experience when they get out to the range and shoot No7 they have to re-learn their applied technique and adjust. This takes up precious time, as you well know is at a premium during range shoots. For the corps‘ that I have worked with in the past, we lucked out and approved ranges are nearby, I‘m currently at Connaught. The ranges are literally 100m away. 

I know what works for me. I was taught by the best, WO Ron Surret from the RNBR in New Brunswick. I go off his example.   

Good luck to your promising biathelete. It‘s not easy coaching rifle AND teaching them to ski hard at the same time.   

Cheers


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## Jason Jarvis (14 Jan 2004)

> As for getting the cadets to shoot Daisys first prior to shooting larger caliber weapons, I still waver at the thought. Although the student learns BATH-P in a warm environment and out of the elements, in my experience when they get out to the range and shoot No7 they have to re-learn their applied technique and adjust.


Well, you still have to walk before you can run, and as much as I enjoy shooting the No. 7, it really is a pig of a rifle, especially for a 12-year old -- it‘s long, awkward, heavy and it takes a fair bit of fiddling to get the sling fitted properly. My old unit tended to use Anschutz only, although in early ‘92 we started to use No. 7s more frequently, and we even mounted PH front tunnels with Anschutz inserts on our rifles (didn‘t make much difference, though, I think my best target with a No. 7 was still only a 95 on the 20 yd. DND target).

I was only able to run one training session on the 853C with the team we sent to the ORA shoot in October. Since we finished DFL, I don‘t know what that says about either my coaching skills or their shooting ability. While only one of the cadets had any amount of shooting experience, their overall performance sucked. They were equally bad with the No. 7 *and* C7. None of them are on the current team, however, so I‘ve got the rest of this year to get next year‘s team in shape.

Anyone who trained under WO Surret can buy me a beer any day!


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## Franko (15 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Jason:
> [qb]


Well, you still have to walk before you can run, and as much as I enjoy shooting the No. 7, it really is a pig of a rifle, especially for a 12-year old -- it‘s long, awkward, heavy and it takes a fair bit of fiddling to get the sling fitted properly. 

Anyone who trained under WO Surret can buy me a beer any day!     [/qb][/QUOTE]

True...it is a bit heavy for the yungins‘. What I do for people of that ilk is get sand bags for them to rest on prior to shooting and between shots. I don‘t allow them to use it as a rest during shooting. Most times it works to a tee. They learn much quicker and can relax at the same time. By the time they get into competition they are handling the weapon like a pro, out performing most other cadets, who are mostly fumbling with it and or not confident in themselves handling a firearm.

As for buying the beers...we‘ll take turns buying rounds. I will have to catch up on my drinkin‘ after the tour ends anyway.   :blotto:  

Cheers


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## sgtdixon (15 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Cadet810:
> [qb] I hate the air daisys. [/qb]


Go Easy on the fine weapon of whence you speak Carter I happen to know your not the greatest shot about town...

I know because I captained the rifle team at your Frmr Air Sqn for 2 yrs... and Im very good friends with most of the leadership there And at 810...


The Daisy 835C When operated and used by a competent marksman is a very effective torget shooting tool, Ive been usuing it since my old man bought me one at 4, i still have it and it still makes a nice tight group to this day... And without learning to shoot on that I wouldnt be where i am with my .303 No4Mk1 Lee-Enfield and .300 Lapua Mag today

Bear in mind its not your gun that makes you a great shot its your instructors and in the end...YOU


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## Franko (15 Jan 2004)

And where is that Dixon....

Hate to see all you chaps be in cadets when I first got in. Started shooting 3 days after I got in using FNs and Lee Enfield No 4 (303). I never had such a bad bruise in my life! Never saw an air rifle for cadets until 1997. Rolled my eyes and gave it a try. Every single one garbage. Even returned them through supply. Got new ones...garbage. I sighted them in using benchclamps and the like to no avail.

I guess we‘ll have to agree to disagree...

Cheers


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## primer (17 Jan 2004)

WO Ron Surret is one of the best Marksman in the CF. He has 6 Queens Champion Shot Medals.4 with the RCR and 2 with RNBR. There is only one more that has 7 Queens Champion Shot Medals as a Res LT. Ron‘s Son Missed out a few years from winning his first.WO Surret has been working with the Army cadet Shooting Program in Ottawa for the past 4 years and went Back to Bisely last year as a CDT Coach and Compt. Cadets shooting has change alot in the past 15 years. From Phase 1 to Phase 2 at CSTS in CFB Borden, to the National Cadet Team in Ottawa. Shooting the Daisy 835 c is the start to cadet marksmanship then they progress.I had one cadet that started shooting the 835c got the basics and moved his way through all the marksman camps. he competed in Bisley in 98 and it was the best time of his life...

AND WO SURRET DOs NOT DRINK anymore


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## Lexi (27 Jan 2004)

I‘d love to join Cadets but my parents just won‘t let me. I don‘t know why either. They keep saying they want me to do something where I don‘t ‘dress up in green and march around‘. I‘ve explained how much more it is and how great an experience it is; but now my mother‘s using the excuse that it isn‘t ‘a true sport‘. I don‘t have any after school activities after I completed swimming a while ago and my parents just want to sign me up for some gay kickboxing class. I‘m so angry and confused! Any advice...?


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## dano (27 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Lexi:
> [qb] I‘d love to join Cadets but my parents just won‘t let me. I don‘t know why either. They keep saying they want me to do something where I don‘t ‘dress up in green and march around‘. I‘ve explained how much more it is and how great an experience it is; but now my mother‘s using the excuse that it isn‘t ‘a true sport‘. I don‘t have any after school activities after I completed swimming a while ago and my parents just want to sign me up for some gay kickboxing class. I‘m so angry and confused! Any advice...? [/qb]


It is obvious you have an interest in the Canadian Forces, and wishes to start her future.

I can understand why you‘re parents use that excuse. Cadets is not a "true sport" by this, they mean directly related to one physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

Cadets in the aspects of sports and sportsmanship is more of a Indirect sport. (IF considered a sport) 

Within Cadets there are sport activities by far. 
E.G: Marksmanship, Orienteering, Rock climbing, Absailing. (Air and Sea Cadets... I lack the knowledge of sports involved)

Besides those few examples, If it is also competition you‘re parents want you involved in, Cadets can offer much of that.
Not just in sport related activities, but as well as simply polishing you‘re boots and perhaps winning best jr/sr cadet of the week.(Assuming other corps are doing that)
Getting in to camp for the summer is still competitive; They only allow so many to go, and out of those many, they (By which I mean the CO)chooses whether or not you earned and qualify to you‘re camp chosen, etc.

If you need more advice feel free to PM me, or you can just post it here, and I will as well as hopefully others give some more advice.


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## Franko (27 Jan 2004)

There are things that only can happen in cadets that you will never experience elsewhere, as all who are he will attest to. It most definatly is not a sport but a way of life and it will change you, if you allow it to, for the better.

Regards


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## dano (27 Jan 2004)

As I will be the first.

Well said.


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## primer (28 Jan 2004)

> Originally posted by Lexi:
> [qb] I‘d love to join Cadets but my parents just won‘t let me. I don‘t know why either. They keep saying they want me to do something where I don‘t ‘dress up in green and march around‘. I‘ve explained how much more it is and how great an experience it is; but now my mother‘s using the excuse that it isn‘t ‘a true sport‘. I don‘t have any after school activities after I completed swimming a while ago and my parents just want to sign me up for some gay kickboxing class. I‘m so angry and confused! Any advice...? [/qb]


I would try to get as much information on cadets as possible from the internet www.cadets.ca would be a great start. Back in 83 when I asked my father if I could join Army Cadets while living at CFB Borden. He said how much will it cost and he had his wallet out ready to give me the BUCKS to join. I said it was free and I might be able to goto Summer Camp At Ipperwash Ont. It was the best thing I have ever done joining cadets help me be what I am today. I still keep in touch with some old friends from then. All you can really do is get the most information you can and show it to your parents....

Good luck with it...


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## Lexi (4 Feb 2004)

Thanks.
But as far as I know - Cadets isn‘t free anymore. That‘s besides the point. I‘ve given them information and made them sit down and read through most of the Cadets webpage. All I keep getting is, "We‘ll talk about it." After the ‘talk‘ I get a, "Maybe." That maybe becomes a, "Later." And the circle starts over again..

Maybe I‘m just not putting my foot down hard enough? :\


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## Spartan (4 Feb 2004)

Cadets is no cost to you: just time and effort
and hey, they pay you 60$ a week at camp..... Why I will never understand but they do.
a) friendships b) effective speaking and leadership (things that you CAN use in the future), teamwork, competitions, weekend activities....the list goes on,  and it can expand even more depending on the unit.


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## Lexi (5 Feb 2004)

Nah, I think for army cadets where I live you have to pay for your uniform. I‘m going to try really hard this time to get them to just drop me off at the armoury on Tuesdays, (which is when Cadets is,) and they can pick me up when it ends. I have alot of friends in Cadets and I can stick with them...

Besides, I want to get in on the last tag day. If I do, there‘s a possibility I may be able to go on the big March Break trip to BC.


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## winchable (5 Feb 2004)

It may be a uniform Deposit, you get that back.


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## Da_man (9 Feb 2004)

im still wondering why would someone want to be cadet when he can join the reserve at 16 :/


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## chrisf (9 Feb 2004)

Greater Fun/Work ratio (I love my job, it‘s great fun, but it‘s still a job).


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## Franko (10 Feb 2004)

There is no deposit required for uniforms. If that is the case...as far as I know it‘s against regs for the CO of that corps to do so. However they can make you or your parents sign an agreement to return the uniform when you either age out or quit. It‘s a bit above signing a 638 card, but effective.

Regards


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## badpup (10 Mar 2005)

Perhaps your Parents are among those unknowing souls that do not understand that Cadets, are not that much different than Scouts, or the "gay" kickboxing club.
Many are under the false impression that their sons and daughters are once signed up, eligible for military duty.
THIS IS NOT THE CASE Parents!
The style may be military, but there is no obligation what so ever to join the CF, to be Drafted in the event of National Emergency, or to pay anything for your children to be part of this youth organisation.
What your children will learn from the program, would excite even the most liberal minded among you. Leadership, discipline, public speaking, and yes even ecology!
many former Cadets have not entered the military, but rather entered the civvy world as Leaders, movers and shakers of the economy, and politics. Almost all attribute their success to what they learned while a Cadet!


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