# My AVOTP exprience



## GreenMarine

Just thought I would put this out, perhaps others can relate maybe some will post and relate with me, critic, etc.

Maybe my Story can inspire others in there journey through occupational Tranferes.


Brief History: I've been a supply Tech since 2002, and since summer 2012 I've been throwing the idea of getting out of supply.
After research and pondering, August 2013 I'll place my memo for AVOTP to Steward. 

Reception was mixed at all lvls of my CoC, knowing my main goal is to return to the west coast, I've had the East Coast mentioned to me alot. My answer has been along the line of 50% chance is best chance available to me while in Uniform.

Anyways moving on and bringin after a month since submitting my memo, I got called over to my units Chief Clerk so I can book my OT medical, I got to see some of the comments, my supervisor Supports the OT but my next two boss's dont. My piece of mind is that the CO hasn't signed off and there's some hoops to jump throught that may secure his approval.


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## Eye In The Sky

I'd not worry as much about what your CofC thinks as what the PSO does.  Units and Career Managers have a vested interest in retaining their TES people and therefore are not as likely to be unbiased in their "assessment" of your suitability for OT.  Don't take it (or react to it) personally.  Part of the game.  The CO gets to make a recommendation, not the decision (Selection Boards).

- make sure you meet the pre-req's IAW Reg Frce NCM OT policy (CFAO 11-12) and whatever specifics are detailed in the AVOTP message, etc for your MOC.  BPSO will determine if you meet CFAT requirements, etc.

- do everything you can to make your PSO interview successful.  talk to a Steward, even if only by email.  Talk to more than 1 if you can; a LS, a MS, PO2, etc.  Ask them intelligent questions.  Think of the PSO interview as a job interview.  When I did mine, Dress of the Day was the standard but I went 3B.  Research the trade and be ready to tell the PSO why you want to OT and how it benefits (1) the CF and (2) you as the member.  IMO, one of the most important documents that will be part of it that you can influence directly is the PSO report from your interview.

FWIW, my CofC didn't support my OT application (I was in a Pri 4 unit and CMgr told my CofC no replacement would be posted in....).  My CO signed off my application saying I wasn't eligible for OT (bad info he was given by others in my unit.  It was not true and a phone call from the BPSO fixed that).  Despite all of the posturing from my CofC and CMgr, my file went forward and several months later I received my VOT offer.


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## GreenMarine

Small update did my Part 3 (Medical) no issues. It's was for me a short appointment where the Doctor reads off some files to comfirm you current med cat score and compairs it to your current score and that of your current job.

In my case I hold higher then required and Steward is one less point than Supply.

Next stop PSO part 4...

I contacted some stewards i know to prep myself and will continue picking their heads on stuff that isn't general knowledge or googlable....I'm looking for personal experiences I guess.


A burning question I have ( I haven't found what I'm looking for via my own resreach) is related to family law: Child Custody, and moving out of province to another....I my case We have permission to be where we are by having something in  writing, with the chance that we maybe moving I'm thinking the other parent may hold up any posting by resricting where the kids are allowed.

Should this happen what would the CF do about a member with a child who can't be moved with the member. I'm I going to get a hard time, would this sink my OT when I cant take to the kid East or would I just go on training first and then return to the family in when training is complete?


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## PMedMoe

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> A burning question I have ( I haven't found what I'm looking for via my own resreach) is related to family law: Child Custody, and moving out of province to another....I my case We have permission to be where we are by having something in  writing, with the chance that we maybe moving I'm thinking the other parent may hold up any posting by resricting where the kids are allowed.
> 
> Should this happen what would the CF do about a member with a child who can't be moved with the member. I'm I going to get a hard time, would this sink my OT when I cant take to the kid East or would I just go on training first and then return to the family in when training is complete?



Here's what I _think_ you are saying:  You or your current spouse/common-law/other half has a child with another person.  Between you (or your spouse) and the other parent, there is a written agreement that the child will remain in the province they (and all of you) currently reside in.

Am I with you so far?

In my opinion, the CF may or may not take that into consideration.  I've known several people with the same type of agreement who were posted regardless of where the child could reside.  If the child is yours, you may have a better argument.  Otherwise, you may see yourself being posted IR.


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## GreenMarine

Thanks  PMedMoe your bang on the money.  The main child in question is a Step Child (half sibling) to my personal children.
I dont have a direct say on the custody issues. Orginal Province is BC, written permission was given to take the Child to Alberta but not any other Province.  

IR in my mind is the next best option.


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## PMedMoe

Or, with any luck, you get posted to B.C.


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## GreenMarine

So yesturday out of the blue my WO emails me asking me to fill out a section to the best of my abililty on the Referral Form Personnel selection office, prior to a sit down and chat.

On further review it's the SUPERVISING OFFICER’S ASSESSMENT Section, to which my WO is the Supervising Officer?

I understand filling in a brag sheet, and being honest with my own weaknesses, but this jsut seems like to much of a red flag for me, given that he doesn't support my OT. I dont want to give him more ammo to shoot me down later.

As i'm busy on duty I was able to delay filling it out for a week.

Any-ones thoughts?  As this just doesn't feel right.


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## DAA

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> So yesturday out of the blue my WO emails me asking me to fill out a section to the best of my abililty on the Referral Form Personnel selection office, prior to a sit down and chat.
> On further review it's the SUPERVISING OFFICER’S ASSESSMENT Section, to which my WO is the Supervising Officer?
> I understand filling in a brag sheet, and being honest with my own weaknesses, but this jsut seems like to much of a red flag for me, given that he doesn't support my OT. I dont want to give him more ammo to shoot me down later.
> As i'm busy on duty I was able to delay filling it out for a week.
> Any-ones thoughts?  As this just doesn't feel right.



Maybe this could be your big chance?  Even though you say he may not support it, he just might support what you write down and sign off on it.  Now is not the time to acknowledge weaknesses, now is the time to acknowledge strengths.  Nothing wrong with using your previous PERs to help you along in writing it.


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## Eye In The Sky

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> So yesturday out of the blue my WO emails me asking me to fill out a section to the best of my abililty on the Referral Form Personnel selection office, prior to a sit down and chat.
> 
> On further review it's the SUPERVISING OFFICER’S ASSESSMENT Section, to which my WO is the Supervising Officer?
> 
> I understand filling in a brag sheet, and being honest with my own weaknesses, but this jsut seems like to much of a red flag for me, given that he doesn't support my OT. I dont want to give him more ammo to shoot me down later.
> 
> As i'm busy on duty I was able to delay filling it out for a week.
> 
> Any-ones thoughts?  As this just doesn't feel right.



Perhaps he meant to give you the Annex B Self Assessment Form.  I had to fill this one out.  My Div O filled out the one you were given.  Might be a simple mistake (assuming the same paperwork is still being used...).

The 2 forms (when I did my OT) were almost identical in format/content so easy to mistakenly think one was the other.


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## GreenMarine

So got Ambushed by my CWO yesterday in what was suppost to be just a meet and greet turned out to be a discussion about my OT.

To sum up My CWO said he's not willing to support my OT, and he'll advise the CO to do the same.

The overhead lined out to me is that if I should proceed with a negative recommendation on the CO's part and I'm denied the OT that it will negatively effect future OT attempts.

They want me to retract my OT and wait a year to resubmit.

Honestly I'm at wits end with supply and want a new start.

Sorry if this sound a bit like a rant but It's certainly a potential road block or as my wife put it a threat. I'll like to think it's my CoC trying to test my resolve to see if I would cave in now that the stakes have been raised.


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## George Wallace

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> So got Ambushed by my CWO yesterday in what was suppost to be just a meet and greet turned out to be a discussion about my OT.
> 
> To sum up My CWO said he's not willing to support my OT, and he'll advise the CO to do the same.
> 
> The overhead lined out to me is that if I should proceed with a negative recommendation on the CO's part and I'm denied the OT that it will negatively effect future OT attempts.
> 
> They want me to retract my OT and wait a year to resubmit.
> 
> Honestly I'm at wits end with supply and want a new start.
> 
> Sorry if this sound a bit like a rant but It's certainly a potential road block or as my wife put it a threat. I'll like to think it's my CoC trying to test my resolve to see if I would cave in now that the stakes have been raised.



Sounds more like both your CWO and CO have risen two or three levels above their competence.  What poor leadership they are showing, by knowingly keeping a disgruntled member in a position.


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## GreenMarine

Thank you Goerge Wallace!

My wife said something of the same. As if this OT doesn't go throught my options are limited, I could stay here possibly improve (I dont even care about career progression in supply anymore) or risk breaking up my family, blowing up, rotting in general, etc. (All of which my CoC is aware of as possiblities.)

Requesting a Contengecy move or Releasing.


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## Eye In The Sky

I've said it before; my CofC attempted to block my OT in more ways than one.  All they get to do is make a recommendation and it has to be substantiated.  It is not like PSOs and Selection Boards aren't aware units have tried to block OTs in the past.... .   Unit CofC's can't do the PSOs and Selection Boards job for them and, let's face it, no CO / unit really wants to see people leave, the more so if there won't be someone posted in.  

I know I'm already thru the "OT hoop-jumping" but I say proceed if you want your OT.  Feel free to PM if you want to discuss.  

Simply put, ignore the _Jedi Mind Tricks_.


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## GreenMarine

Thanks Eye in the Sky!

I remember you said that, however it just seems my CoC is pulling out all the stops.

I turned around as "I have the ball in my court" (CWO) and ask my WO which options the unit is willing to support me in. (where can I throw the ball to next.)

He seemed to play ignorant with me on options to the exception of when I'm fully on my feet I'll be farmed out to another unit. I reinforced that the OT can go through and we'll dicuss pulling it at the CO's level (me buying time to gain a more favorable recommendation.) (Miracles happen I hope.) I also informed my civilian supervisor (my only supporter) that the time line is the OT file in Ottawa NLT Feb, Selection boards March, and Notices April/May 2014, to hold off mean 2015.  He seemed to understand that my OT going thru would perhaps be best.


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## Halifax Tar

George Wallace said:
			
		

> What poor leadership they are showing, by knowingly keeping a disgruntled member in a position.



Not in the Log Branch George!  Never!  

On a more serious note GreenMarine are you also looking for an avenue to get back to sea ?  Meaning, besides your family concerns dos this have anything to do with your current posting ? 

I only ask as I could see people in our Log Branch not recommending your application as they see you attempting "posting avoidance".  Not saying I agree with them just saying I could see some people in our branch neigh trade playing a card like that.


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## GreenMarine

Halifax Tar, I'm currently in Edmonton, so to cover the Posting senario I'm trying to force a posting not advoid one. 

Edmonton was fun for the first 6 months, then the wife slipped on ice, kids left to head back to Victoria, extented family passed on....the list goes on.

Again the default chance once I get my VOT is 50/50 West to East...to which I signed the Restricted Release Time/Date today so it does inch closer.

My CO did give away a hint in my talks about dependants, that if I can make a Fiscal claim that it would be cheaper to move the family west should I go East...at the risk of losing entitlement to IR. Like wise I may be able to keep IR if I keep the family temporary in Edmonton if I go East, and then move them at a later time on my dime West.  All factors in it would be locigal for me to go west regardless. However how the math works out in the end may largely be factored by the demands of the CF of course to which I've stated that the posting to Esquimalt is only a perk at this time to keep the focus on getting out of Supply and into Steward.

All the while try to keep working positive and force the smile once in a while.


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## Halifax Tar

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> Halifax Tar, I'm currently in Edmonton, so to cover the Posting senario I'm trying to force a posting not advoid one.
> 
> Edmonton was fun for the first 6 months, then the wife slipped on ice, kids left to head back to Victoria, extented family passed on....the list goes on.



Well all the best I hope it all works out for ya.


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## GreenMarine

PSO process for GreenMarine

TSD 0830hrs 09 Jan 14.
There is no preparation required for the TSD.
It is a series of computer questions that ask you questions about your personality. 

Interview 0900hrs 09 Jan 14 with PSO.


Oh ya!


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## Eye In The Sky

Good stuff.   What is a TSD???


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## Mudshuvel

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Good stuff.   What is a TSD???



In the context I'm thinking Training & Skills Development. At least that is what New Brunswick and a few other provinces called it when I was job searching a few years back.


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## GreenMarine

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Good stuff.   What is a TSD???



Yes I have no idea myself the email just goes "TSD 0830hrs 09 Jan 14.
There is no preparation required for the TSD.
It is a series of computer questions that ask you questions about your personality. "


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## Eye In The Sky

???

Well good luck with it.   ;D


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## GreenMarine

So I kept this part to myself (PM one pers about it)

My normal route to work is about a 4km walk. So winter came last month with ice on my path. After some playing turtle a few times I found myself late 15mins for work. 

My old bosses never saw this as an issue so would waive the tardiness. However new boss + my OT = anything I do is mircoscoped as per above.

skip ahead a month I'm charged with AWOL and this morning 11 Dec, pleaded and found guilty and punished with a caution... phew.

little more than one week till xmas leave then a few days back at work and the PSO appointment. Advise given to me in reguards to the AWOL vs the AVOTP is that it's a minor and should not worry.


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## Jarnhamar

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> So I kept this part to myself (PM one pers about it)
> 
> My normal route to work is about a 4km walk. So winter came last month with ice on my path. After some playing turtle a few times I found myself late 15mins for work.
> 
> My old bosses never saw this as an issue so would waive the tardiness. However new boss + my OT = anything I do is mircoscoped as per above.
> 
> skip ahead a month I'm charged with AWOL and this morning 11 Dec, pleaded and found guilty and punished with a caution... phew.
> 
> little more than one week till xmas leave then a few days back at work and the PSO appointment. Advise given to me in reguards to the AWOL vs the AVOTP is that it's a minor and should not worry.



Did you consider leaving for work 20 minutes earlier?


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## GreenMarine

PSO appointment was yesturday, cant say much on it due to privacy, but it went well on  the final steps.


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## Eye In The Sky

Good luck!


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## GreenMarine

After my PSO appointment I submitted a Memo requesting to see the CO.
I will try to pull him over to the Recommend Side. (As I'm under the impression that he is not or being pressured not to.)

I meet with him tomorrow. 
My CWO and WO will be in attendance.  

I may ask for my WO to be dismissed from the meeting as he is an antagonist for my life story on the other hand should the meeting not go well but my Transfere is approved by the selection board him being there makes the transfere so much sweeter.


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## GreenMarine

My file is in Ottawa!  ;D

And the un-official word is my CO did recommend...I just waiting on the official word.


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## Eye In The Sky

The waiting sucks, but every day is a day closer....


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## GreenMarine

The wait is over, I got my message. I'm in the field so sent my part 6 electronically via scanner in reply to accept.

Effective Date 16 Jul 14,
Posting:Member will be posted (no cost) to nearest BTL upon effective date.
DEU: Change to SEA (Member must be issued complete deu prior to ot effective date) > hopefully I get pulled from the field for this alone.


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## Eye In The Sky

Hey congrats!!  

Assuming your OT date is the generic APS date, around mid-July?  Keep your nose clean something like C & P will still stop the OT!   ;D


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## Roughneck_JRico

OT messages are definitely in! Got mine today, currently posted to Gagetown.

New Trade: RMS Clerk
Effective date: 16 July 14

Message came in this morning, applied for LOTP instead of AVOTP.

Super stoked!


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## GreenMarine

Roughneck gratz, anyword on where you'll end up afterwards?  This is still a ? mark for me as there is some logic to keeping me in Edmonton, yet more logic to post to a Navy base sooner than later.


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## GreenMarine

Well with a day left till my OT offer was to take effect, I found out by calling Ottawa directly for answers that my RW is holding my OT and that even if I get it torn up today, Ottawa will still wait two weeks after recieving notice to produce the posting message. Oh so want to rant, because the bread crumb trail and hints dropped by my bosses makes sence now, that I'll was strung along and even burned leave trying to ease the waiting game.

They know I won, so in being sore losers are taking cheap shots as they can.


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## upandatom

Wow that sounded like an absolute shitshow-

Mine went way smoother,


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## Eye In The Sky

AFAIK only C & P can stop an OT.  A RW?  Maybe it changed, but I'd read the OT Instruction msg again.  Mine said "UNIT IS REMINDED THAT MBR CAN NOT BE OCCUPATIONALLY TRANSFERRED WHILE UNDER C AND P, ON COMPASSIONATE STATUS OR ANY ADMIN/MEDICAL REVIEW THROUGH DMCA 2 OR 3.

Para 8.

Maybe it's changed to "mbr cannot be OT while on RMs"?


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## upandatom

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> AFAIK only C & P can stop an OT.  A RW?  Maybe it changed, but I'd read the OT Instruction msg again.  Mine said "UNIT IS REMINDED THAT MBR CAN NOT BE OCCUPATIONALLY TRANSFERRED WHILE UNDER C AND P, ON COMPASSIONATE STATUS OR ANY ADMIN/MEDICAL REVIEW THROUGH DMCA 2 OR 3.
> 
> Para 8.
> 
> Maybe it's changed to "mbr cannot be OT while on RMs"?



I specifically asked about this- 
And recorded warning no-I thought I was having one come down the pipe. 
 the C&P does, because that prevents Career Courses, Promotions etc. All though in many cases, I have seen the opposite where people were sent on courses to try to smarten them the eff up. 

Well, 

First day as an ATIS tech TODAY


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## GreenMarine

hmm...mine only has 7 paras, no para 8 no mention of "UNIT IS REMINDED THAT MBR CAN NOT BE OCCUPATIONALLY TRANSFERRED WHILE UNDER C AND P, ON COMPASSIONATE STATUS OR ANY ADMIN/MEDICAL REVIEW THROUGH DMCA 2 OR 3."


More to follow as I see my SgtMjr today. However given my local contacts they all say it's BS, and the ones that know the systems are calling it a stall tactic.


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## Eye In The Sky

upandatom said:
			
		

> the C&P does, because that prevents Career Courses, Promotions etc.



Exactly, IAW DAOD 5019-4,  Consequences of Remedial Measures - Career Implications.

I knew of a guy who was on a RW, but due to a "miscommunication"on the unit part, NDHQ pers thought the mbr was actually on C & P.  A subsequent file review cleared up the issue, which also saw the RW quashed and removed from records.  



> First day as an ATIS tech TODAY



Hope it was a good one!


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## upandatom

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Exactly, IAW DAOD 5019-4,  Consequences of Remedial Measures - Career Implications.
> 
> I knew of a guy who was on a RW, but due to a "miscommunication"on the unit part, NDHQ pers thought the mbr was actually on C & P.  A subsequent file review cleared up the issue, which also saw the RW quashed and removed from records.
> 
> Hope it was a good one!



Yeah, but also seen someone put onto C&P then  placed onto a PLQ-L due to the reason that "The member works in the same building as the victim and it was easier to seperate the two" 

Still fully disagreed, 

and nothing changed, just put on a different beret and shirt


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## GreenMarine

Well good news Policy talked to Careers and sorted them out. Message to be printed soon and dated for the 1st of Aug.


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## Eye In The Sky

Sometimes it is best to just pause, breath and wait for a few bounces of the ball before going  ullhair:

Aug 1st is JUST around the corner.   :nod:


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## GreenMarine

Oh ya the added satisfaction is I'm not foreseeing any further problems from my chain as I caught them allowing a clear violation of current DAODs. They tried pushing the I went over there heads, I countered with I was only inquiring and that I was lead to believe that the unit was in the dark as well... My SgtMjr acknowledge a break down in comm between us. Given my units lay out it points to one person my WO...mentally I waved to my SgtMjr while driving the bus that he just threw my WO under.    :APC:


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## George Wallace

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> Oh ya the added satisfaction is I'm not foreseeing any further problems from my chain as I caught them allowing a clear violation of current DAODs. They tried pushing the I went over there heads, I countered with I was only inquiring and that I was lead to believe that the unit was in the dark as well... My SjrMjr acknowledge a break down in comm between us. Given my units lay out it points to one person my WO...mentally I waved to my SgtMjr while driving the bus that he just threw my WO under.    :APC:




???

You are a Cpl and you don't know the proper abbreviations of ranks?


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## GreenMarine

I've heard of Spellinf Police and Grammar Police but never Abbreviation Police.  I did catch myself on an error so thankyou.


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## George Wallace

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> I've heard of Spellinf Police and Grammar Police but never Abbreviation Police.  I did catch myself on an error so thankyou.



Your ignorance will probably hold you back.  But you seem to know it all, so I will let you learn the hard way.


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## jlv031

Im so surprised ... Useful post really. Congrats on your OT moving on GM


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## GreenMarine

It's been awhile since updating, I enjoyed a week off mid summer, then reported into my Local BTL.

My uniform is in transition as I await my naval kit to arrive, making due with a naval beret and CAG slip-ons.

When clearing in with BTL as pre-planned between myself and the BTL WO I'm employed for OJT as close as I can to the Steward trade, along side the Cooks who run Rations and accommodations..  These guys also have no problem getting a hold of the messes for me to work into.

Yesterday finally got my course loading message.   A small course of 10 students.  Now I await the booking clerk to inform me of my flight.

Additionally yesterday the panic over the lack of Naval dress I have came to a rest as I inquired with CFNOS staff to where I was told bring what I have, training is more important than the color of your uniform.

My god why cant there be more people in this military like the one I spoke to.   (I'll probably tell him personally.)


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## GreenMarine

Well It's been a very Long time since I've updated... Well Since my last I did my QL3's course in Halifax...didn't get top student but I'm sure I came close...p.s. get permission before donating blood.

I'll got my posting back to the west coast, and within a month was on a ship. I'll like to say this is the end of my story, however I'm still dealing with uniform issues, and question to why I left my old trade to one that is quote dying unqoute.

Also there's the choice I've made not to push hard on my four's package, as I'm wanting to learn this trade before my five's as the trade differs alot from the Junior level to the Senior level.


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