# Don't loot- Iraq Video



## Jarnhamar (12 Apr 2004)

Came across this article while surfing. (Has it been brought up yet?)
Kinda funny, kinda sad.
 http://www.punchbaby.com/media/gitfakt/clips/sick/DontLoot.wmv 

Soldiers caught some iraq's looting so they shot their car then ran it over. Any comments?


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## mattoigta (12 Apr 2004)

yeah this was brought up before in another thread


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## Jarnhamar (12 Apr 2004)

Ops, sorry guys.


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## scm77 (12 Apr 2004)

That videos great.  I love when they shoot up the car.  :akimbo:


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## Jarnhamar (12 Apr 2004)

It would have been ironic if one of the soldiers got hit by a richochette.


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## mattoigta (12 Apr 2004)

bunch of cowboys..


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## Jarnhamar (12 Apr 2004)

Wether what they did was right or wrong aside, it surprises me that soldiers  would do this type of stuff infront of a camera.  You would think a soldier, from ANY nation, would realise the reprecussions of that eh?


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## kaspacanada (12 Apr 2004)

It looks like it was only firewood or some wood to mabey rebuild their destroyed homes.  WTF??? Can‘t people take some wood to keep warm at night?  Can‘t they rebuild the homes that the invasion destroyed?  If they were stealing food would they have ripped it from their starving hands?  And they guy is a taxi driver?  If the camerapeople understood how to communicate, why didn‘t they interpret for the Iraqi‘s????  Who made those soldiers judge and jury?  Guilty without any form of trial?  Some sense of justice the western world appears to be trying to instill in them.
    :akimbo:


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## clasper (12 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by S_Baker:
> [qb] I suppose we could have cut off everyones right hand.... [/qb]


No.  But let‘s just say that the soldiers‘ sense of justice in this case was a little more... creative than is normal in a democratic justice system.   

I would think the US army has SOP‘s to deal with looters in Iraq.  I have a hunch that they don‘t involve shooting inanimate objects and then crushing them for sport.

So how does this footage fit in with the "hearts and minds" campaign?


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## Infanteer (12 Apr 2004)

People complain about how the US invasion led to looters running rampant, and then they complain when the US forces deal with looters.  You can‘t win with the liberal press.


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## kaspacanada (12 Apr 2004)

comon, its not like they are raiding the walmarts, or priceless treasures.  Sure deal with it, but deal with it fairly.  Then again, do they have any form of identification there?  I have no idea...mabey it was impossible to say, you need to show up in court here at this time.  Mabey that‘s all they could have done.  But at the least they should have found a way to properly communicate and assess the situation before playing executioner with their vehicle.  

People complain about a lot of things, its what liberal society is good at.  We have the right to.  You should know that being an infanteer...what‘s the old saying, "if the troops aren‘t complaining, there‘s something wrong"


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## mattoigta (12 Apr 2004)

Look im not  saying the US army is a bunch of cowboys - I‘m saying those troops are. "duhh US ARMY TANKERS HUA! let‘s shoot the car first! that‘d be cool!"

What ever happened to professionalism?


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## Sh0rtbUs (12 Apr 2004)

didnt seem too professional to me.

did seem fun though..


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## brin11 (12 Apr 2004)

> Since cowboys are self respecting...I won‘t be dissin‘ yah. So don‘t be hatin‘ so wurd up, homes?


What?


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## casing (12 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by kaspacanada:
> [qb] comon, its not like they are raiding the walmarts, or priceless treasures.[/qb]


What makes you think that firewood isn‘t an extremely valuable commodity there?  Is it because of the vast tracts of forest available on the other side of the sand dunes?  Without knowing the facts behind the incident, how can we judge the troops?  So someone behind the camera says it was merely firewood.  How often does the media say things in such a manner to give the impression they want?  I have to agree with Maj Baker here.  Better that they lose their car than lose their hands.

Edit for spelling.


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## Arctic Acorn (12 Apr 2004)

That was unbelievable. Who in the **** gave those guys the right to do that? It‘s not like those people are animals, it was wood, for pete‘s sake! How can you expect to instill rule of law and show the Iraquis just how spiffy democracy can be when you can blithely destroy a man‘s livelyhood with a baretta and a 61-ton Abrams? If the yanks are acting like -that- over there, there‘s little wonder that they‘re having problems and uprisings. Those people are not enemies, they were supposedly the folks you were trying to liberate. 

Work on your people skills, lads....

On another note, I am especially suprised with your comments, Major Baker. With all due respect, Sir, how can you support something like that? I‘m sure you well know crap like that has an extremely poor impact on the mission in Iraq. It shows incredibly poor leadership, poor control, and total unprofessionalism. I would think as a senior officer that would be plain as day. The men stole some wood and were unarmed, do you really think the punishment fit the crime?


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## Jarnhamar (12 Apr 2004)

I think if i was the commander on the ground there i would not have let my troops do something like that. If anything it‘s going to breed more hatred towards the allied troops there.

Each situation is different of course and there might have been something left off the footage but it still seemed pretty counter productive.

I‘m pretty heavy handed when it comes to justice i guess but the feeling i got from that video was them abusing their power. Just my opinion though


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## winchable (12 Apr 2004)

I dunno, it‘s kind of hard to leave something out of the footage when the guy goes 

"we caught these guys stealing wood ,so we‘re going to crush his car, US Army tankers..yeaaah."

Although I would question the voice over at the end about the cab driving thing, since that‘s kind of hearsay.

I‘m going to go ahead and assume that the majority of GI‘s aren‘t doing this.


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## scm77 (12 Apr 2004)

We don‘t know exactly who the looters were.  They could have been taxi drivers.  Maybe they had weapons in their car and we going to be detained so they decided to smash the car.  So much of the videos that we see are edited/taken out of context.


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## bossi (13 Apr 2004)

It‘s difficult to second guess - we weren‘t there
(i.e. it‘s possible local authorities had asked for assistance in dealing with rampant looting, but it‘s also possible this action wasn‘t sanctioned - we simply don‘t know, because we weren‘t there).

This seems to be another unfortunate example of why all troops need to understand their ROE‘s and "the rule of law" ...

It‘s also unfortunate that not all troops understand the concept of "winning hearts and minds".

Like I always say:



> Those who appreciate true valour should in their daily intercourse set gentleness first and aim to win the love and esteem of others.  If you affect valour and act with violence, the world will in the end detest you and look upon you as wild beasts.  Of this you should take heed.
> -- Emperor Meiji:  Rescript to Soldiers and Sailors, 4 January 1883


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## kruger (13 Apr 2004)

Three words - lack of leadership. You saw how confused the soldiers were, one of them telling the kid to be in school. So they dealt with the situation the best they could, I don‘t blame them for it, the CO is responsible for his men. 
BTW I love the sexy sound the M1A1 Abrams gas turbine makes - whispering death is how US soldiers nicknamed the tank.


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## mattoigta (13 Apr 2004)

Anyone else notice that they crush the wood along with the car?


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## Thompson_JM (13 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Scarlino:
> [qb] Anyone else notice that they crush the wood along with the car? [/qb]


Now thats Irony.........


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## PTE Gruending (13 Apr 2004)

I can‘t believe that U.S. soldiers would do something like that. I really hope that the footage is taken out of context... as a matter of fact I thought it was some kind of spoof until I read comments on this board that seem to vouch for its authenticity.

How can some dumbass grunts have the authority or right to do something like that? The chunks of wood looked like they were picked out of rubble or bomb wreckage. They were small, and in a variety of shapes and sizes. It‘s not as if they were going to build a weapon out of that trash wood! They probably just wanted to rebuild a home or perhaps cook some food. If this footage is true, I am sadly dissapointed in the discipline and professionalism in the American Army. However my temper is stayed by the fact that their are always a ‘few bad apples‘ giving the rest a bad name (CAR anyone?). I guess you cannot generalize and entire force based on the actions of a handful of low-end soldiers. Still, it is pretty appalling....


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## K. Ash (13 Apr 2004)

Sort of like the pic that was circulating....A kid holding up a cardboard sign with "Lcpl. Beaudreaux killed my dad and knocked up my sister"
(two thumbs up--everyone smiling) (not sure of his name and rank)

Was it determined if that was real or P.S job?
Anyone know?


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## Jarnhamar (13 Apr 2004)

I think the sign was obviously a joke.

Firing off your service pistol into someones car in broad daylight or running it over with a tank isn‘t.

I think Napalm hit the nail on the head. Lack of leadership. The guys are standing around  confused, they haden‘t a clue what to do. Someone probably made a joke and said crush the car then someone else thought it was a good idea. group mentality. Good thing our young american friend wasn‘t in the canadian army, each of those rounds would have been considered a negligent discharge at $1500 bucks a pop


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## mattoigta (13 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by absent_element:
> [qb] Sort of like the pic that was circulating....A kid holding up a cardboard sign with "Lcpl. Beaudreaux killed my dad and knocked up my sister"
> (two thumbs up--everyone smiling) (not sure of his name and rank)
> 
> ...


off topic but i think the LCpl Boudreaux thing is fake because isn‘t Lance Corporal a Marine Corps rank? He wasnt in MARPAT...


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## scm77 (13 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Ghost778:
> [qb]Good thing our young american friend wasn‘t in the canadian army,[/qb]


If he was in the Canadian army, he wouldn‘t have a tank to crush the car with!


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## pegged (13 Apr 2004)

He‘d have a Striker instead..


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## chrisf (13 Apr 2004)

I just watched the video... it was absolutely digusting, a complete lack of profesionalisim...

Admitedly, we only have what we see and what the voice over tells us. We don‘t have complete information... maybe there was a reason the car was crushed... maybe it was confiscated, and there was to way to remove to a rear area and they were ordered to crush it... maybe there are a good many factors involved... the media love to twist things...

That being said, if nothing else, the firing of rounds at the car was a display of un-professionalisim at it‘s finest. Somthing there was absolutely no need for. So it‘s clear that even if it‘s been twisted or spliced a tad, there‘s still somthing rotten at the core.


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## Arctic Acorn (13 Apr 2004)

Does anyone know where this video originated? That would assign -some- credibility to it, one way or the other. 

However, it is easy to see from the point of view of the locals/bleeding heart liberals/much if not all of the Middle East, that this kind of cowboy justice would be extremely damaging to the relationship between the forces there (including the Brits/Spanish/Japanese, etc). Most of those people are living in pretty desperate conditions right now, and between incidents like those and strengthing Iraqi dissatisfaction with the coalition forces just being there, there‘s little wonder that the hardliners and terrorists have no shortage of recruits.  

It easy to understand how incidents like these can come about. I have read at least two articles that mention that the americans have to barricade themselves incide their camps due to the security situation, effectively cutting themselves off from the local population. That could easily result the troops being afraid of any and all Iraqis. When I was in Bosnia, the Americans where much the same way. They rarely left camp, and when they did, they drove fast, in large groups, and scared the **** out of the locals with their driving. My roomate there never left our camp as well, and he was terrified of the locals. Fortunately things were pretty calm when I was there. I can imagine things being a million times worse over in Iraq. Combine that stress with poor training (there‘s a lot of national guard troops over there now, and anyone on this board who has worked with them knows that they ain‘t exactly the Navy Seals) and if things don‘t improve you don‘t need a bag of chicken bones to predict that it‘s just gonna get worse.


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## DogOfWar (13 Apr 2004)

I cant condone that. I guess if I was told by my superiors i would do it. But the small arms fire? Seems like someone wanted to "bust some caps"....thats sad......but I do love the tank sounds....


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## Spr.Earl (13 Apr 2004)

It comes from an episode of the PBS "Frontline"
I saw the program and I believe its the one below.
You can watch it.

 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth/view/


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## Arctic Acorn (13 Apr 2004)

Thanks Sapper.


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## Spr.Earl (13 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Arctic Acorn:
> [qb] Thanks Sapper. [/qb]


No sweat,when I saw it for the first time I was shocked and thought that‘s no way to win hearts and minds.


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## Spr.Earl (13 Apr 2004)

I just found this and was rather surprised!!   


US tactics condemned by British officers
By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 11/04/2004) 


Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate.

One senior Army officer told The Telegraph that America‘s aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and that there was a growing sense of "unease and frustration" among the British high command.

The officer, who agreed to the interview on the condition of anonymity, said that part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for "sub-humans".

Speaking from his base in southern Iraq, the officer said: "My view and the view of the British chain of command is that the Americans‘ use of violence is not proportionate and is over-responsive to the threat they are facing. They don‘t see the Iraqi people the way we see them. They view them as untermenschen. They are not concerned about the Iraqi loss of life in the way the British are. Their attitude towards the Iraqis is tragic, it‘s awful.

"The US troops view things in very simplistic terms. It seems hard for them to reconcile subtleties between who supports what and who doesn‘t in Iraq. It‘s easier for their soldiers to group all Iraqis as the bad guys. As far as they are concerned Iraq is bandit country and everybody is out to kill them."

The phrase untermenschen - literally "under-people" - was brought to prominence by Adolf Hitler in his book Mein Kampf, published in 1925. He used the term to describe those he regarded as racially inferior: Jews, Slaves and gipsies.

Although no formal complaints have as yet been made to their American counterparts, the officer said the British Government was aware of its commanders‘ "concerns and fears".

The officer explained that, under British military rules of war, British troops would never be given clearance to carry out attacks similar to those being conducted by the US military, in which helicopter gunships have been used to fire on targets in urban areas.

British rules of engagement only allow troops to open fire when attacked, using the minimum force necessary and only at identified targets.

The American approach was markedly different: "When US troops are attacked with mortars in Baghdad, they use mortar-locating radar to find the firing point and then attack the general area with artillery, even though the area they are attacking may be in the middle of a densely populated residential area.

"They may well kill the terrorists in the barrage but they will also kill and maim innocent civilians. That has been their response on a number of occasions. It is trite, but American troops do shoot first and ask questions later. They are very concerned about taking casualties and have even trained their guns on British troops, which has led to some confrontations between soldiers.

"The British response in Iraq has been much softer. During and after the war the British set about trying to win the confidence of the local population. There have been problems, it hasn‘t been easy but on the whole it was succeeding."

The officer believed that America had now lost the military initiative in Iraq, and it could only be regained with carefully planned, precision attacks against the "terrorists".

"The US will have to abandon the sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut approach - it has failed," he said. "They need to stop viewing every Iraqi, every Arab as the enemy and attempt to win the hearts and minds of the people.

"Our objective is to create a stable, democratic and safe Iraq. That‘s achievable but not in the short term. It is going to take up to 10 years."

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2004%2F04%2F11%2Fwtact11.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=11014


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## Duotone81 (13 Apr 2004)

I wonder what the cab driver will be doing now that he‘s unemployed and pissed off?


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## Spr.Earl (14 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Nick:
> [qb] I wonder what the cab driver will be doing now that he‘s unemployed and pissed off? [/qb]


Killing Americans?


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## Arctic Acorn (15 Apr 2004)

I‘m still waiting to hear what Major Baker has to say. 

Sir, this may be treading dangerous ground for you, but do you have any thoughts on this? Taking into consideration your trade and where you‘re posted, are you able to provide an American point of view on this? Not trying to pick a fight, sir, but honestly I‘d like to hear what you have to say...


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## Infanteer (15 Apr 2004)

Finally got the actual video to work.  Hilarious.  

Remember when this was filmed roughly a year ago, everyone was screaming bloody murder about the looting.  It may not be the most effective way of dealing with it, but these soldiers were dealing with it.  At that particular point in time, civil order in Baghdad was paramount.  I stand by my original statement.

American armour - hooah.


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## kruger (15 Apr 2004)

I think Major Baker uses a second identity known as "Infanteer" when it comes to touchy US issues.


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## Infanteer (15 Apr 2004)

Cute.

How would you know what Napalm smells like, wannabe.

PS.  3 posts and your already off to a good start, stud.


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## kruger (15 Apr 2004)

I didn‘t mean to offend, but looking back at some of your posts you seem to be utterly amazed by our southern neighbors. Don‘t forget you are from Canuckistan, we are allies militarily and economically but we‘re far from being even similar to the americans. Just look at our democratic socialist government and healthcare.


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## kruger (15 Apr 2004)

Oh, and my quote "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning" comes form the film Apocalypse Now.


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## bossi (15 Apr 2004)

> Oh, and my quote "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning" comes form the film Apocalypse Now.


Wow.  Really?

"You can‘t play good tennis or hit the golf ball if what you are thinking about is how other people are perceiving you." 
SENATOR BOB GRAHAM,chairman of the Senate intelligence committee.


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## Infanteer (15 Apr 2004)

> I didn‘t mean to offend, but looking back at some of your posts you seem to be utterly amazed by our southern neighbors. Don‘t forget you are from Canuckistan, we are allies militarily and economically but we‘re far from being even similar to the americans. Just look at our democratic socialist government and healthcare.


Oh really.  My Dad is married to an American and I don‘t really find the grounds to agree with that.

There are American socialists and Canadian rednecks.  Political difference varies as much from British Columbia to Texas as it does from British Columbia to Quebec.  The line pretty much exists on maps only.

Maybe my "utter amazement" for the American military comes from the fact that I‘ve worked with them, I have friends who are who are in, and I respect their abilities.  I‘m not about to allow for someone to run them over on the grounds of an edited PBS video.



> Oh, and my quote "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning" comes form the film Apocalypse Now.


No s**t.  You seem to be calling my character into question, so I thought I‘d respond in due fashion, but my friend Mr Bossi has beat me to the punch.

I‘d suggest setting your phaser to stun.


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## webster (15 Apr 2004)

Not only was the car run over but the wood as well.  Does it make sense that the Americans say don't loot but than destroy the loot itself? I bet u that those same Iraqis were some of the ones that picked up arms against the U.S.
So much for trying to make friends.
*shakes head*


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## webster (15 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by bossi:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> ...


Not everyone has seen that movie...your a Moderator please cool off with the attitude.


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## winchable (16 Apr 2004)

This is probably going to go ignored but;
Everyone step away from the computers, not worth it.


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## webster (16 Apr 2004)

lol...after reading what i typed i realised i should have kept it to myself but im just tired of people posting pointless remarks.  Now that i think of it i guess i did the same. For now on ill stop telling people to watch there posting and mind my business.


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## K. Ash (16 Apr 2004)

I thought everyone new what movie that line was from.


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## bossi (16 Apr 2004)

> I thought everyone new what movie that line was from.


Wow.  Really?

("Charlie don‘t surf.")


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## 1feral1 (16 Apr 2004)

Ya, that tank must have sounded cool when you heard it on surroundsound!

Another mall ninja has arrived to the site!


Wes


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## kruger (16 Apr 2004)

I‘m no mall ninja, I consider myself a couch commando, equipped with a fully automatic, infra-red targeting system I can flick through channels with lightening speed. Heck, I am such a precise sharpshooter that I can recall an incident when I "greased" a channel from 32 yards, now that‘s skill.


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## 1feral1 (16 Apr 2004)

With an attitude like that you‘ll last a ‘real long time‘ in the Defence Force.

And you said you were enlisting in May??   

McDonalds is always hiring.


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## bossi (16 Apr 2004)

Aaaagghh!!!  Knock it off.
This pedantic behaviour adds very little to this forum.


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## kruger (17 Apr 2004)

McDonalds rejected me, questioning my mental health (sorry Bossi, just had to throw that in).   

Peace


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## webster (17 Apr 2004)

Napalm just ignore it...its pointless.


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## 1feral1 (17 Apr 2004)

Hey Civilian, before you go defending napalm, take a look at the quality and subject matter of his posts.


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## DogOfWar (17 Apr 2004)

As a Canadian and American Im puzzled by Canadians. Comments about how we are so different from the Americans blah blah blah. Seems to me some Canadians believe the only reason its good to be Canadian is because it means they are not American. If infanteer likes the American military so be it. Infanteer is allowed to have an opinion on military matters because he is in the military. As a civilian you should just keep your mouth shut. I doubt you know your *** from your mouth when it comes to the difference between militarys.


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## kruger (17 Apr 2004)

Wet Grunt, Im sorry but I don‘t know what the **** you‘re talking about. What is the point of your post?

Next time try to convey your message in a way that we can all understand.


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## DogOfWar (17 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Napalm:
> [qb] I didn‘t mean to offend, but looking back at some of your posts you seem to be utterly amazed by our southern neighbors. Don‘t forget you are from Canuckistan, we are allies militarily and economically but we‘re far from being even similar to the americans. Just look at our democratic socialist government and healthcare. [/qb]


This what im talking about. Perhaps you need a diagram civi.


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## kruger (17 Apr 2004)

Try going to downtown Rochester or Buffalo after 8 pm without being raped or mugged several times. That is not a problem here in Toronto, Vancouver (although Hastings street is a mess) or Calgary.
Wet Grunt we are somehow different from "them".


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## DogOfWar (17 Apr 2004)

Wow. I was in Dallas not even 6 mos ago and I tell you what I‘ve NEVER been to a cleaner city with nicer people. When is the last time you were south of the border. And dont say "them" because Im both and I wouldnt have it any other way. Heres a quick Canadian test- in your head of course. Name the first 4 canadian prime ministers? Dont reply to this thread about it. You could easily "google" it. Bet you cant do it. Thats because your pride for being a Canadian comes from not being American.


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## kruger (17 Apr 2004)

Than compare Toronto‘s 30 homicide deaths with Chicago‘s 600...
And Chicago is only slightly larger than TO, so do not use that as an argument. Also, we here in Canada have a larger ratio of guns per capita than you Yanks. Where does that come from?


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## DogOfWar (17 Apr 2004)

Im not a yank. I grew up here. In Canada. Ill die in Canada(God willing). No more leftist liberal crap for you. You are now restricted to 2 viewings of Bowling for Columbine a week. It couldnt possibly stem from a greater disparity between economic classes and education levels could it? Give it time. We will all get there soon enough.


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## Spr.Earl (17 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by The WetGrunt:
> [qb] Wow. I was in Dallas not even 6 mos ago and I tell you what I‘ve NEVER been to a cleaner city with nicer people. When is the last time you were south of the border. And dont say "them" because Im both and I wouldnt have it any other way. Heres a quick Canadian test- in your head of course. Name the first 4 canadian prime ministers? Dont reply to this thread about it. You could easily "google" it. Bet you cant do it. Thats because your pride for being a Canadian comes from not being American. [/qb]


I was down in Dallas/Ft.Worth last April and found it very clean and safe to wonder around late at night especialy when leaving the Market and its Bars and clubs.I prefer Ft.Worth though the Stockyards is more fun.


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## DogOfWar (17 Apr 2004)

Anyways there is no way you or I will convince each other otherwise right? So cheers mate. Just keep in mind that this is a military board and most guys in the military will defend other militarys out of respect. (if they are worth their salt they will) Carry on.


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## BDTyre (17 Apr 2004)

Just watched this video...

I‘m wondering, is the US Government still in the habit of giving those convicted of minor crimes a choice of prison or a 4 year military term?  I know this was popular in the 1980s.  (anyone seen "Buffalo Soldiers"?)


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## DogOfWar (17 Apr 2004)

I doubt it. The American military is looking for clean backgrounds now. My cousin is a Marine and he was scrutinzed regarding his speeding tickets. Who knows- maybe our very own Baker could give you an answer,


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## kruger (17 Apr 2004)

My opinion about poor security in some US cities comes from my relatives reaction (they‘re from Rochester NY), who were shocked when I invited them for a night downtown (here in TO), and were even more astonished when I suggested that we take the subway.

Never been to Dallas, so I‘ll have to take your word for it.


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## Andyd513 (24 Apr 2004)

I had a huge long post written about how Canadians and Americans really aren‘t that different but instead I thought I‘d do this:

"Try going to downtown Rochester or Buffalo after 8 pm without being raped or mugged several times. That is not a problem here in Toronto, Vancouver (although Hastings street is a mess) or Calgary."

Rochester Crime Rate: 7414.5/100,000
Buffalo Crime Rate: 6868.6/100,000

Various Ontario City Crime-Rate (per 100,000):

Thunder Bay ( 10,379 ), London ( 8,284 ), Windsor ( 7,892 ), Ottawa ( 7,672 ), St.  Catharines ( 7,465 ), Sudbury ( 7,102 ), Hamilton ( 7,074 ) and Kitchener ( 6,849 )

Toronto: 5,839

So you‘re more likely to be raped or mugged in which Ontario Cities? ... ..


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## DogOfWar (24 Apr 2004)

NICE WORK

Where did you get those???


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## Andyd513 (24 Apr 2004)

You can dig statistics like that up on many local news agencies. Local Universities often carry the statistics for various reasons

eg:
www.rit.edu/~jmkgcj/research/chart%20of%20the%20week/CrmRateComps.pdf

statscan.ca is a great place for canadian statistics, the toronto star had good numbers for the across ontario #‘s but they were just pulled from stats canada (those #‘s may be a year old). Sorry I‘d go look up the exact URL I got it from  but my computer is being slow as molasses.

Anyway I just hate to see people say Americans are more prone to violence, or stereo-type them. I‘ve got far too many great American friends.

Proud to be a Canadian, but proud to have our neighbours to the South as well.


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## stukirkpatrick (24 Apr 2004)

> Thunder Bay ( 10,379 )


I feel so proud    :blotto:   

*tries to steal message board for drug money and shoots Mr Bobbit*


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## Infanteer (24 Apr 2004)

Maybe the Americans should run over some Ontarians‘ cars to sort things out.


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## kruger (26 Apr 2004)

The crime rate number may be equal, but the character of the crimes is probably totally different. Those numbers in Thunder Bay probably account for littering, loitering, walking on freshly planted grass and ignoring to clean dog excriments.


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## gate_guard (26 Apr 2004)

Yeah...probably, eh? That ranks just as low as "assume" and "most likely" in my book of highly accurate statistical phrases. Keep diggin, stud.


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## stukirkpatrick (26 Apr 2004)

Actually, we had the highest homicide rate in Canada for a while (not sure we still do) - per capita, for a region of 120 000 people.  

The police also make a heck of a lot of drug busts, and have a Tri-force unit set up to deal with them.


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## kruger (26 Apr 2004)

Where do you think that comes froms?


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## mattoigta (26 Apr 2004)

Napalm, you got nothing man, stop digging.


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## kruger (27 Apr 2004)

No, I was sincerely asking out of curiosity. Why are you all so hostile, if you don‘t like what civilians have to say, why open this forum to the public?


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## mattoigta (27 Apr 2004)

I‘m not even sure how to respond to such a ridiculous post


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