# NCM trades – Which one should I choose?



## pheonix5 (21 Mar 2010)

Hello

I'm wondering if there is a Geomatics/Cartography Reserve unit in Ottawa? If so, could you please list the details, I was told by word of mouth that there is one, but can't seem to find any information. The recruiter at the recruitment office did not have an answer for me, but people say its out there. 

Thanks


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Mar 2010)

Fueldistributa said:
			
		

> Hello
> 
> I'm wondering if there is a Geomatics/Cartography Reserve unit in Ottawa? If so, could you please list the details, I was told by word of mouth that there is one, but can't seem to find any information. The recruiter at the recruitment office did not have an answer for me, but people say its out there.
> 
> Thanks



If I am not mistaken there is an embryonic section/detachment within 3 Field Squadron 33 Combat Engineer Regiment. Suggest you contact 33 CER directly.


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## George Wallace (21 Mar 2010)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> If I am not mistaken there is an embryonic section/detachment within 3 Field Squadron 33 Combat Engineer Regiment. Suggest you contact 33 CER directly.



Indeed there is.  33 CER out on Wakley Road is a good start, although they (the GEO guys) do not parade there, but out in Orleans.

I also think that you may have to already have the qualifications of a Geo Tech in order to join, but I am not 100% on that.  If you contact them (33 CER), you should be able to get all the information that you need.


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## pheonix5 (22 Mar 2010)

Excellent, thank you for the information, and taking the time to reply.


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## Ajottawa (22 Jun 2016)

Hi,

I have been going through the recruiting process to join the 33 CER as a Geo Tec, its taken awhile due to a sports injury and recover and medicals and medicals. It is now finally moving forward. I do have a big question, what do the Geo Tec's at the 33rd do? on exercises and weekend training? I have watched and read all about Geo in the RegF, but I know that it will be very different in the ResF. I have asked the recruiters and I always get the same vague answers. I do have experience with Geomatics as I took surveying and geomatics at uni.

I am hoping that someone on here may be able to enlighten me.

AJ


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## Iron Felix (2 Sep 2016)

Hey, 

So I have written my CFAT and my TSD and been given the list of trades I have qualified for. Right now I'm having a hard time deciding between Infantry Soldier and Combat Engineer. The Combat Engineer job is appealing because of job opportunities after my contract. However I wouldn't want to miss out on any of the combat training and specializations the Infantry has to offer. Infantry is appealing because your main focus in the Army is closing and combating the enemy and there are many combat specializations available to them. I'm 23 years old and not sure exactly what I want to do as a career for the rest of my life. Maybe I'll stay in the military if I get in or maybe I'll look elsewhere. One thing I've been thinking about is being a PMC though. Curious if being a Combat Engineer would lower my chances of being hired by a PMC company. Any insight into all of this would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks for your time!


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## newt_recruit (10 Sep 2016)

So my post secondary track record is pretty terrible, and I've heard that you have to include all transcripts during the application. I failed in electrical engineering at uni, and then took electrical engineering tech at the college, but didn't go to or drop my classes, so I got all F's. I tried again the next semester, but did the same thin, so seven F's from that college  :facepalm: I do have some university courses done, but there is bad record there as well.

Should I bother applying for any of the trades that would require technical knowledge(such as Aerospace Telecommunication & Information Systems Technician, or ACISS)? I am very good with education, I was just a very bad student and unmotivated. Are there any otehr positions I should be looking for, maybe more grunt oriented?


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## mariomike (10 Sep 2016)

For reference, perhaps,

Should I bother attempting to join air force as ATIS tech?

will be merged with,

ATIS Tech
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca++++ATIS&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=3gzUV4r7N4mN8QeqibTADQ&gws_rd=ssl


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## Jarnhamar (10 Sep 2016)

It doesn't sound like you're "very good"  with education at all.  You sound really bad actually,  so change it. 

Apply for the infantry and help us out.    While you're there take  online courses,  night classes and do schooling through the army. When your ready apply for your  dream trade.


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## Occam (10 Sep 2016)

I wasn't a particularly good high school student, though I got good marks in the classes I found interesting (and actually attended).  When I took tech courses in the military as a somewhat more mature adult, I applied myself and came in near or at the top of my classes.  If a tech trade interests you, and your aptitude testing shows you have an aptitude for it, then you should take responsibility for your poor academic performance during the interview and go for it - if you think you've matured enough and can take the training seriously.  Flunking trades training doesn't always mean they'll retain you in another trade - sometimes it means a trip out the door.  Only you know if you have the maturity to take the necessary education seriously.


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## newt_recruit (10 Sep 2016)

Okay, I think my focus should stay on this reference deal. What do I do if I can only get references for the last two years of my life? i honestly have nobody to put for before that time period and even two years is tough.


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## mariomike (10 Sep 2016)

newt_recruit said:
			
		

> What do I do if I can only get references for the last two years of my life?



The " Reference" Superthread- Merged  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/12763.675
28 pages.

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


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## BeaverMan (22 Sep 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> For reference, perhaps,
> 
> Should I bother attempting to join air force as ATIS tech?
> 
> ...



Speaking from personal experience from when I went through POET as a AVS tech, taking a military course is a lot different then taking a college course. First of which if you don't show up for class they will go to your room and pull your butt out of bed. Depending on your course director it might be the MPs. You will also likely be put into a shared room with other people from your class who will likely drag you out of bed for morning muster. Also in sharing a room with fellow classmates you will have people right there to help you with anything you might be struggling with if you make an effort.


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## Eye In The Sky (23 Sep 2016)

newt_recruit said:
			
		

> So my post secondary track record is pretty terrible, and I've heard that you have to include all transcripts during the application. I failed in electrical engineering at uni, and then took electrical engineering tech at the college, but didn't go to or drop my classes, so I got all F's. I tried again the next semester, but did the same thin, so seven F's from that college  :facepalm: I do have some university courses done, but there is bad record there as well.
> 
> Should I bother applying for any of the trades that would require technical knowledge(such as Aerospace Telecommunication & Information Systems Technician, or ACISS)? I am very good with education, I was just a very bad student and unmotivated. Are there any otehr positions I should be looking for, maybe more grunt oriented?



So, basically you have a Grade 12 education at this point, from a 'highest level of education completed' standpoint if you apply?

I was, earlier in life, unmotivated in school.  Working 1 fulltime and 3 part'-time jobs (5 days & 7 nights/week) motivated me to get an education.  That education has (1) given me opportunities in the Forces and (2) been a nice safety net for if I was ever released.

Apply; the worst that can happen is you get told you didn't qualify for that trade, but you did qualify for "trades X, Y and Z".  It will also give you a baseline for where you stand and what you can do to improve your chances at success in the CAF.  

Take a look at the Recruiting website and the minimum education required for each trade you might be interested in...example...http://www.forces.ca/en/job/aerospacetelecommunicationinformationsystemstechnician-18?olvPlayer=0s&module=cue_18_1#re

Required Education 
The minimum required education to apply for this position is the completion of the provincial requirements for Grade 10 or Secondaire IV in Quebec with Grade 10 Academic Math or Math 246 in Quebec. Foreign education may be accepted.

Then take into consideration the difference between 'meeting the minimum requirements' and 'being a competitive applicant'.

I dropped out of highschool, got my GED a few years later and then did 3 years of college including a post-graduate diploma in Information Systems.  My trade before my current one (AES Op) was...ATIS Tech; before that I was combat arms.  

You'll never score if you don't shoot the puck.   :2c:


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## thematrixiam (12 Oct 2016)

Hey guys, new here.

Just wrote my CFAT and was told I got a good score and could work in any of the NCM Jobs. I do also have a degree, meaning I could get in as an officer as well. 

My choices were:
Resource Management
Intelligence Operator
Refrigeration Tech

However, Intelligence Operator is closed. Intelligence Officer is also closed.

I asked which jobs are at a high need right now and got the following list on NCM positions:
Marine Engineer
Vehicle Tech.
Supply Tech.
Naval Comm.
Sonar Op.
Combat Engineer
Armoured Soldier
Army Comm. & Info. Sys.

Out of those, combat engineer sounds the most interesting. My only concern is that I am 36, married with 2 children. My friend in the military now, about my age, says that that is a young man's job. Also, that it is a dangerous job. 

Can it be done at my age?
Dangerous, but how so? Is it simply skill based danger, meaning assuming I have the proper knowledge I will be fine, or would it be more enemy fire danger?

He recommends Supply tech. I am just worried that it might be an unfulfilling job. Can anyone offer some insight on this?

My other option is to forgo NCM and choose officer. My degree is in Psychology, so that doesn't give me many options. Also, my CFAT score would obviously be lower percentile for an officer. The job options are not that much. Nothing officer really appeals to me, other than intelligence officer and that's closed.


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## mariomike (12 Oct 2016)

thematrixiam said:
			
		

> Out of those, combat engineer sounds the most interesting. My only concern is that I am 36, married with 2 children. My friend in the military now, about my age, says that that is a young man's job. Also, that it is a dangerous job.
> 
> Can it be done at my age?
> Dangerous, but how so? Is it simply skill based danger, meaning assuming I have the proper knowledge I will be fine, or would it be more enemy fire danger?



Information on Combat Engineers
http://army.ca/forums/threads/22088.0
9 pages.

See also,

Combat Engineer
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+combat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mDv-V__OIIeN8QeszJOIBA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+combat+engineer



			
				thematrixiam said:
			
		

> He recommends Supply tech. I am just worried that it might be an unfulfilling job. Can anyone offer some insight on this?



Supply Tech
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+combat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mDv-V__OIIeN8QeszJOIBA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22supply+tech%22



			
				thematrixiam said:
			
		

> Can it be done at my age?



Am I too old to join/do well/fit in?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/207.0
11 pages.

See also,

Age questions,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+combat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mDv-V__OIIeN8QeszJOIBA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+age



			
				thematrixiam said:
			
		

> My other option is to forgo NCM and choose officer.



Officer/NCM differences  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/171.0
23 pages.

NCM or Officer?
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+combat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mDv-V__OIIeN8QeszJOIBA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+NCM+officer


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## Lumber (12 Oct 2016)

Were you planning on adding something, MM?


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## DAA (12 Oct 2016)

thematrixiam said:
			
		

> Out of those, combat engineer sounds the most interesting. My only concern is that I am 36, married with 2 children. My friend in the military now, about my age, says that that is a young man's job. Also, that it is a dangerous job.
> 
> Can it be done at my age?
> 
> ...



I take it your "friend" isn't a Combat Engineer.     

It's your life and your career to choose.  If you think you are capable of doing the job of a Combat Engineer and would be happy doing such a job, then go for it.  Don't settle for something other than what you are really interested in doing.

Good luck!


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## thematrixiam (12 Oct 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> I take it your "friend" isn't a Combat Engineer.
> 
> It's your life and your career to choose.  If you think you are capable of doing the job of a Combat Engineer and would be happy doing such a job, then go for it.  Don't settle for something other than what you are really interested in doing.
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks DAA,

You are correct. He's in Resource Management. 

Right now I'm a 2nd year, almost a 3rd year, sheet metal worker. The physical aspect isn't really an issue. Danger doesn't bother me too much either. I could handle mines. It would more be the thought of enemy fire and what that would do to my family, if I ever got killed, that would bother me the most. 

I wasn't able to find much in the way of what Combat Engineers face in terms of enemy fire. Would you say they are put at risk as much as infantry, or less so?

I also was unable to find much on Combat Engineers, and their time away from family. Can anyone shed light on this?

Thanks in advance.


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## mariomike (12 Oct 2016)

thematrixiam said:
			
		

> I also was unable to find much on Combat Engineers, and their time away from family. Can anyone shed light on this?



Average day (or week or month or even a year) as a Combat Engineer  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/109556.0



			
				Capt. Happy said:
			
		

> Expect to spend a fair amount of time away from home and your family, so ensure you have your sh*t wired tight administratively and your family has contingency and care plans in place.





			
				thematrixiam said:
			
		

> I wasn't able to find much in the way of what Combat Engineers face in terms of enemy fire.



What is the Combat Engineer Combat role?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/108884.0
2 pages.



			
				thematrixiam said:
			
		

> It would more be the thought of enemy fire and what that would do to my family, if I ever got killed, that would bother me the most.



Explaining the Combat Engineer job to a worrying mother  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/33482.0/nowap.html

Information on Combat Engineers
http://army.ca/forums/threads/22088.0
9 pages.



			
				thematrixiam said:
			
		

> Would you say they are put at risk as much as infantry, or less so?



Combat Engineer or Infantry  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/34091.0
5 pages.

Are Combat Engineer a Combat Arm? 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/110423.0

least appealing aspects of the combat engineer
https://army.ca/forums/threads/41979.0

Math for Combat Engineers (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/2150.0
2 pages.

etc... etc... If you are willing to SEARCH.


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## DAA (12 Oct 2016)

thematrixiam said:
			
		

> You are correct. He's in Resource Management.
> Right now I'm a 2nd year, almost a 3rd year, sheet metal worker. The physical aspect isn't really an issue. Danger doesn't bother me too much either. I could handle mines. It would more be the thought of enemy fire and what that would do to my family, if I ever got killed, that would bother me the most.
> I wasn't able to find much in the way of what Combat Engineers face in terms of enemy fire. Would you say they are put at risk as much as infantry, or less so?
> I also was unable to find much on Combat Engineers, and their time away from family. Can anyone shed light on this?
> Thanks in advance.



As a member of the CAF, we are or should be taught the concept of "Soldier first, tradesman later".  So regardless of occupation, danger is always inherent with such an employer.  It's not just the Combat Arms occupations on the front lines, there has to be people there to support them or resupplying them.

Why not ask them for yourself?   ---->  https://www.facebook.com/Canadian-Military-Engineers-Association-127268310627871/


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## thematrixiam (12 Oct 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> 2 pages.
> 9 pages.
> 5 pages.
> 2 pages.
> ...



I guess they say a picture is worth a thousand words.







I don't want to give you the impression that I haven't spent time reading. Sorry if it comes off as that.


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## thematrixiam (12 Oct 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> As a member of the CAF, we are or should be taught the concept of "Soldier first, tradesman later".  So regardless of occupation, danger is always inherent with such an employer.  It's not just the Combat Arms occupations on the front lines, there has to be people there to support them or resupplying them.
> 
> Why not ask them for yourself?   ---->  https://www.facebook.com/Canadian-Military-Engineers-Association-127268310627871/



Perfect, 
Many thanks.


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## lohocard (20 Jan 2017)

Hey everyone.

Yesterday I had my interview and medical and I was qualified for MP, Supp Tech and ACISS. From reading the threads about both the trades, I didn't really get the "day to day" work information I needed to really decide between the two. For the record (and from reading/going onto the Forces website), I would enjoy doing both equally, therefore not asking anyone to choose for me. My grandfather was a Supp tech in the Airforce for his whole career but unfortunately he passed away before I was born.

If anyone (preferably a supp tech or ACISS) could give me the run down between the two and possibly state what you don't like about the job vs what you really enjoy, maybe which of the two deploys the most, etc. 

This is for Regular Force - preferably Land or Air - I've read the supp tech navy posts already. This is in case MP does not work out.

I just want to figure out which one I'd be most interested in. If it helps, I really enjoy hands-on work. I was never one to read a lot of books/absorb much from a textbook unless I had to skim through it for answers. I'm a little worried that ACISS may be too "hard" to learn because of all the electrical work? Then I'm worried about being in a warehouse all day and possibly being too bored. These are things that I assume of the trade.

If anyone could shed some information I'd really appreciate it. 

Logan


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## mariomike (20 Jan 2017)

lohocard said:
			
		

> If anyone (preferably a supp tech or ACISS) could give me the run down between the two and possibly state what you don't like about the job vs what you really enjoy, maybe which of the two deploys the most, etc.



Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/77029.0/nowap.html
62 pages.

See also,

ACISS
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Amilnet.ca+supple&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=aTmCWK2gB6iC8QfrzIFQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:milnet.ca+ACISS

Supply Tech
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Amilnet.ca+supple&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=aTmCWK2gB6iC8QfrzIFQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:milnet.ca+supply+tech


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## geekygirl (6 Jul 2017)

Hi there,

I am having trouble deciding what trade would be the best for me to pursue. I have a background in project management and a few years as a computer technician; though I do prefer the more technical sides of both jobs. I'll be finishing up my Comp Sci degree within the next year, so I'm not looking for the Forces to reimburse my university education. I'm just trying to decide which one of those jobs would be a better fit for me as a Reservist. It seems like both jobs are more hands-on (which I'd prefer), based on their respective descriptions.

If you are currently in either trade, what are the parts do you really enjoy about your job? What was your background prior to this? Any issues that you've encountered, in terms of not feeling professionally fulfilled? Is there opportunity to electively pursue further studies within the trade, or is that exclusive to progression in higher ranks?

I have/I am working on attaining a few Cisco, Comptia, MCSE, and LPI certifications. I know the Naval Communicator undergoes training for A+ and Network+ (my CCNA R+S is ranked a bit better than that, industry-wise). I'm wondering if there is more training available beyond that, and if the descriptions for both positions are accurate for what is expected on the job.


Thank you!


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## mariomike (6 Jul 2017)

geekygirl said:
			
		

> if the descriptions for both positions are accurate for what is expected on the job.



Naval Communicator
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+pharmacy&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=BZteWYaBOuOfXtnVuIgJ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22Naval+Communicator%22&spf=1499372294070

NAVCOMM
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+pharmacy&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=BZteWYaBOuOfXtnVuIgJ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+NAVCOMM&spf=1499372928291

Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists ( ACISS )
https://army.ca/forums/threads/77029.1600.html
65 pages.

ACISS
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+aciss&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=oqNeWcinNc6R8QfNnrXoDg&gws_rd=ssl

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


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## runormal (6 Jul 2017)

The probably with ACISS is that it is split into 4 sub occupations.
Core - Talking on Radios
IT - Running our LCSS (Land Command Support System) - Essentially IT in the field
Line - Running WD and CAT 5 for CPs/Out Dets
Rad Tech - Radio Technician (Need to transfer from the reg-f to the reserves).

Likewise most signals regiments are split into two squadrons and the IT assests are usually with the bigger of the two squadrons. If your squadron doesn't have any of the LCSS kit then you can't work with IT.  However assuming your unit has the IT equipment and you have an IT background, you'll have no problem getting in the detachment.

If you are currently in either trade, what are the parts do you really enjoy about your job?
I love the variety and I love working out doors. I spend enough of my life in a cubicle and running spreadsheets out excel (which I love), but the reserves is nice break from this. I've never worked in the IT detachment and I don't have any intentions to do so in the future. I've only ever worked as Core or "Tac Rad". I've worked with pretty much every unit: Engineers, Infantry (OC Sig, Plt Sig, CPs), service battalion, Artillery, RRBs and TBG TOCs. Each time the job is more or less the same "Pass messages over the radio from A to B so that the unit are supporting can do their job." However each task has it is own unique challenges. It keeps the job interesting, because while it is always the same job, it is slightly different everytime.  


 What was your background prior to this? 
Highschool and then a B-Com. I've always been interested in computers and technology so it wasn't a challenge.

Any issues that you've encountered, in terms of not feeling professionally fulfilled?
I've been a corporal now for almost 4 years, I can't get the time off work to go on my next career course. As a result of this I am starting to get bored of my job, because it is starting to get repetitive. Additionally, we have equipment shortages, leadership shortages and the troops that we recruit and train are at a lower standard than before. Given the current state of the reserves, I've given some thought to releasing in the next few years.

 Is there opportunity to electively pursue further studies within the trade, or is that exclusive to progression in higher ranks?
 You can get up to $8k via the ILP (Individual learning plan) to use towards professional development as long as it benefits the CAF. Most guys use it for University or a Masters. I'm not aware of IT related courses that are available in the reserves, but I've never worked in the IT troop. You also need to be available for the course, whenever the army wants to run it. 

Bottom line it is a great part time job and you won't meet better people. If you are thinking about joining as an ACISS you need to ensure that your civilian employer will allow for 60 days for your DP 1.0.


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## Moose Guy (30 Oct 2018)

Hello,

I'm currently looking into joining the Reserves through co-op, but I have a question. Should I go into weapons technician or join Infantry? I have an interest in firearms, in particular in how they are designed, but I love being outdoors (courtesy of my experience in Cadets.) It's time for me to move on from Cadets and join the real deal. Been ghosting around these forums for a while and decided to finally ask my questions here.


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## mariomike (30 Oct 2018)

Moose Guy said:
			
		

> Should I go into weapons technician or join Infantry?



Without knowing an individual, it is not easy to say.

You can read about both trades here. They may help you decide which is best for you,

Weapons Technician
https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&ei=zr_YW8eRHcLXzwLv9qfgDw&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22weapons+tech%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22weapons+tech%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3...12317.17002.0.17533.7.7.0.0.0.0.102.630.6j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.BM2XZTvfzs8

Infantry
https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&ei=4b_YW7rHIYHVzgKj36DADg&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3...107463.115303.0.115847.22.18.0.0.0.0.159.1559.16j2.18.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..7.0.0....0.PxSkOHW4yFY

As always, Recruiting is your most trusted source of official, up to date information.


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