# Notice of CF Express



## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

Had two questions, did a search didn't find the answers I was looking for. BTW I am a reservist.

If I have example a CF express valid until august, I want a contract until July, can they make me retake the CF express even though I have one valid until the end of my contract?

Second question, how much notice must they give you before testing. Can they tell you the day of or is there a minimum of a week or so? Also if there are any written regs on this could you give me the reference.


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## kincanucks (11 Sep 2008)

You have a CF Express Test result valid for the 07/08 not for 08/09.  So you will be required to do it for 08/09 before 31 Mar 09.


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## gaspasser (11 Sep 2008)

Why the worry?  Afriad you'll flub it?
It's a yearly test of your physical fitness level.  I usually do it cold with a little warm up and pass, mind you I'm over the 35 hill and do more than show up.
They usually give us about a month or two notice during training cycle.  Or a couple weeks if you're being deployed and need to catch up.  I did three of them over a two month period once!  .
Regards, BYTD


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

Not really afraid but I you got to admit it kind of sucks when you are not expecting it, I like to be sure of myself and not have any worries know what I mean... Especially if I can get at least a 24 hour notice so I don't go and do a full blown work out the night before either...

Kincanucks so if I understand what you said, the CF express is valid for a fiscal year not one year from the date you completed it correct?


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## 211RadOp (11 Sep 2008)

With the exception of my first unit, I have always booked my own, but I suspect it varies from unit to unit.


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## kincanucks (11 Sep 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> Not really afraid but I you got to admit it kind of sucks when you are not expecting it, I like to be sure of myself and not have any worries know what I mean... Especially if I can get at least a 24 hour notice so I don't go and do a full blown work out the night before either...
> 
> Kincanucks so if I understand what you said, the CF express is valid for a fiscal year not one year from the date you completed it correct?



Yes

and

_BTW I am a reservist_

So.

CANFORGEN 156/08 CDS 022/08 151834Z AUG 08
CF HEALTH AND PHYSICAL FITNESS STRATEGY
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. CANFORGEN 198/05 
B. CANFORGEN 002/07 
C. CANFORGEN 042/08 
D. CF HEALTH AND PHYSICAL FITNESS STRATEGY 



FURTHER TO REFS A, B, AND C, I AM PROUD TO ANNOUNCE THE OFFICIAL LAUNCH OF THE CANADIAN FORCES HEALTH AND PHYSICAL FITNESS STRATEGY (REF D). THIS STRATEGY PROVIDES THE MOTIVATION, AWARENESS, SUPPORT AND ACCOUNTABILITY TO ENHANCE AND SUSTAIN A FIT AND HEALTHY FIGHTING FORCE. IT IS MY INTENT TO STRENGTHEN THE CULTURE OF HEALTH AND PHYSICAL FITNESS ACROSS THE CF 


MILITARY PERSONNEL MUST MAINTAIN THE HIGHEST STANDARDS OF HEALTH AND PHYSICAL CONDITIONING THROUGHOUT THEIR CAREER TO PROVIDE THEM WITH THE STAMINA AND ENDURANCE TO SUCCESSFULLY PERFORM AMID PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY DEMANDING OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS. HEALTHY AND PHYSICALLY FIT SAILORS, SOLDIERS, AIRMEN AND AIRWOMEN ARE LESS PRONE TO FATIGUE AND INJURY AND ARE THEREFORE MORE EFFECTIVE IN CARRYING OUT THEIR CRITICAL MISSION TASKS 


IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CF TO DEVELOP AND SUSTAIN A STRONG, HEALTHY AND FIT CF. THIS BEGINS WITH LEADERS WHO ARE FULLY COMMITTED TO A QUOTE CULTURE OF HEALTH AND PHYSICAL FITNESS UNQUOTE, SETTING THE EXAMPLE FOR EVERYONE TO TAKE THEIR HEALTH SERIOUSLY AND CHOOSE A LIFESTYLE DEDICATED TO EATING WELL, ENGAGING IN REGULAR PHYSICAL FITNESS ACTIVITIES, MAINTAINING A HEALTHY WEIGHT AND LIVING ADDICTION FREE 


EFFECTIVE 01 APRIL 2008, SOME OF THE IMPACTS OF REF D INCLUDE: 


THE CHAIN OF COMMAND WILL PROVIDE THE TIME, RESOURCES AND PROGRAMS TO SUPPORT CF PERSONNEL TO ADOPT AND MAINTAIN A HEALTHY LIFESTYLE AND PHYSICAL FITNESS 


*REGULAR, PRIMARY RESERVE, OUTCAN AND REMOTELY POSTED PERSONNEL WILL ALL COMPLETE ANNUAL FITNESS EVALUATIONS * 


IAW REF C, POINTS WILL BE AWARDED FOR EXPRES TEST RESULTS AT MERIT BOARDS 


PSP FITNESS AND SPORTS STAFF WILL PROVIDE RESOURCES FOR SPECIALIZED AND REMEDIAL TRAINING 


CF PERSONNEL WILL BE PROVIDED THE NECESSARY TOOLS (STRESS MANAGEMENT, COPING SKILLS, AND BEHAVIOURAL COUNSELLING, ETC) TO MAINTAIN A HEALTHY AND ADDICTION-FREE LIFESTYLE 


INDIVIDUAL TRAINING AND EDUCATION RELATED TO HEALTH AND FITNESS WILL BE BETTER INTEGRATED INTO CF PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT 


COMMITMENT TO A LIFELONG HEALTHY LIFESTYLE WILL IMPROVE MORALE AND PERSONAL WELL-BEING, AND CONTRIBUTE TOWARD SUCCESS IN OPERATIONAL MISSIONS AND TASKS. THE CF WILL PROVIDE PROGRAMS AND SUPPORT TO ALL CF PERSONNEL AND THEIR FAMILIES TO FOSTER THEIR INTEREST AND MOTIVATION FOR MAINTAINING AND SUSTAINING A LONG-TERM COMMITMENT TO A PHYSICALLY FIT AND HEALTHY, ACTIVE LIFESTYLE 


MILITARY PERSONNEL MUST POSSESS THE HEALTH AND PHYSICAL FITNESS NEEDED TO FUNCTION IN COMPLEX AND DEMANDING ENVIRONMENTS AND THIS STRATEGY PAVES THE WAY TOWARDS GENERATING A FORCE THAT IS HEALTHY AND FIT TO FIGHT. I EXPECT YOUR SUPPORT AND COMMITMENT IN IMPLEMENTING THIS STRATEGY 


REF D IS AVAILABLE ONLINE AT HTTP://HR.OTTAWA-HULL.MIL.CA/DOCS/HRMIL-DOCS/PDF/CF(UNDERSCORE)HEALT H(UNDERSCORE)FITNESS(UNDERSCORE)E.PDF. HARD COPIES WILL SOON BE DISTRIBUTED ACROSS THE CF. ENQUIRIES REGARDING REF D MAY BE DIRECTED TO TRACEY WAIT, DMPSC 2-2, 613-995-5549, WAIT.HT(AT SIGN)FORCES.GC.CA 


SIGNED BY GEN WJ NATYNCZYK, CDS


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> With the exception of my first unit, I have always booked my own, but I suspect it varies from unit to unit.



I like that idea, if I could book it when I feel ready (especially with school and stuff I've had one stuck right at the end of exam week when I was more out of shape. What do you think happens to the stress level...), as long as I don't let my last one expire what's the big deal doing it a week later or so.

Kincanucks from what I read and from what was in bold it says that everyone that is under the umbrella of the canadian forces has a CF Express to do every year which I already knew, what am trying to find is if there is somewhere where it is written like "24 hours notice must be given to member before conducting the CF Express Test" or in the wavelength.


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Sep 2008)

I didn't read thru this to see if it has specifically what you are looking for but...it might be the starting point.  

DAOD 5023-2 IntraNet

DAOD 5023-2 InterNet

My suggestion is to do it.  Unless you are worried about not passing it, why not do it and get it out of the way for the next 12 months?

If you start waving the "I don't have to" flag, they might wave the "and we don't have to employ you on Class B" flag.  You're call.


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

Ok so I read through the entire thing and didn't find anything and that was probably the best document to try and find anything.

I did however see something very interesting for someone who fails the MPFS... it says that they can request an evaluation by CMTFE (Common Military Tasks Fitness Evaluation). Has anyone ever heard of this being done? Not that I need to or want to but never heard of that before and just curious to know. It can be requested after failing the CF Express twice and is the choice of the member...



> 5 Common Tasks consist of:
> 
> 1. Sea evacuation.
> 
> ...



Taken from the CFPSA website http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/fitness/general_e.asp


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## SupersonicMax (11 Sep 2008)

They forgot the Beer Drinking part on the "common tasks" 

To answer your initial question, I had a 1 day warning for my express test...  It really isn't that hard, what are you scared of failing on?


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

Not really scared but I will admit that I do have a hard time with the push-ups and even then it's not really a strength thing it's more of my weight that I have to lift. I got to lose a few pounds, but I can do like 35 sit-ups, I run my 6.0 levels no problem and my lowest hand pressure thing was 88 on a bad day... I do know that I am not in top shape or anything but personally I don't think I am horrible to the point of not being able to work or being considered obese or anything... Anyways I continue to go to the gym and have gotten a lot better since I joined.


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## Nfld Sapper (11 Sep 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> Ok so I read through the entire thing and didn't find anything and that was probably the best document to try and find anything.
> 
> I did however see something very interesting for someone who fails the MPFS... it says that they can request an evaluation by CMTFE (Common Military Tasks Fitness Evaluation). Has anyone ever heard of this being done? Not that I need to or want to but never heard of that before and just curious to know. It can be requested after failing the CF Express twice and is the choice of the member...
> 
> Taken from the CFPSA website http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/fitness/general_e.asp



If you are going to quote, quote it properly:



> *FITNESS EVALUATION
> Minimum Physical Fitness Standards 1988*
> 
> The Canadian Armed Forces developed a Minimum Physical Fitness Standard (MPFS) for all military personnel, regardless of trade classification, age or gender. Extensive research provided 5 Common Military Tasks, which all personnel might be expected to perform in time of emergency. This rationale was used as the basis to establish Bona Fide Occupational Requirements (BFOR) in compliance with the Charter of Human Rights.
> ...



and this has now been replaced by (if I am not mistaken):


> CF EXPRES Evaluation
> The CF EXPRES evaluation is a fitness test, which predicts the member's ability to meet the 5 common military tasks. The evaluation is administered to all CF members except those subject to special Command (LFCPFS) or task specific unit evaluations (i.e. JTF2, SAR Tech, and Fire Fighter). The purpose of the evaluation is to assess the relative overall fitness level of the member in order to provide exercise programs.
> 
> The three components of the CF EXPRES program are as follows:
> ...




EDITED TO ADD

And if you are in the Land Environment you are also subjected to the BFT regardless if your EXpress test is still valid.


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Sep 2008)

From DAOD 5023-2:

This DAOD is an order that applies to officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces ("CF members").

_*Administrative Requirements and Procedures*_

Period of Validity of the Results of a Physical Fitness Evaluation The results of a physical fitness evaluation are valid:

- for a period of 365 days beginning on the date on which a pass rating is achieved; or
- for a period of 730 days beginning on the date on which an incentive standard is achieved under the CF EXPRES incentive program (see the CF EXPRES Incentive Program Exemption block).

The date on which a pass rating or incentive standard is achieved is set out in:

- the appropriate evaluation report form, e.g. Form DND 279, CF EXPRES Program; and
- the fitness panel in the HRMS.

*When Required A CF member who is not exempted from physical fitness evaluation requires valid evaluation results:*- on the effective date of a promotion, in accordance with promotion policy in applicable CFAOs; and
*- on the start date of a period of Class "B" or "C" Reserve Service.*


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## SupersonicMax (11 Sep 2008)

Then why do you need a month to prepare?


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Then why do you need a month to prepare?



I never mentioned a month, I just reread my posts to make sure but I mentioned a week and 24 hours...


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## SupersonicMax (11 Sep 2008)

Then why do you need a week


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## Towards_the_gap (11 Sep 2008)

As a member of the CF you should always be fit enough to pass the EXPRES test at any time. It is the *minimum* standard after all.


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

Yes I know but I would still enjoy a little notice.

If you had the choice of knowing the day of or the week before... well personally I would like to have a week notice so I know not to do anything too demanding the day or two before so I can have the maximum possible...

Like I have been trying to say in past posts, it's not a necessity but hey can it really hurt?


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Sep 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> I never mentioned a month, I just reread my posts to make sure but I mentioned *a week and 24 hours...*



A week or a day...if you aren't ready to pass the test right this moment, you won't be a week from now.


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

Not that I am not ready to pass it, but if not doing any exercise the day before will make me more rested and get an extra 5 push-ups in why not?


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## SupersonicMax (11 Sep 2008)

There are 3 possible outcome to the test:

1-Fail
2-Pass
3-Exempt

5 push ups won't make a difference if you say you can do 35 for a pass.  If you are going for the exempt it might, but you can always re-do the express test 3 weeks later when you are more rested.


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

I will agree with you on that point and probably won't make a difference...

Still don't like surprises though...


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Sep 2008)

???

How long have you been in and what MOC are you?


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## SupersonicMax (11 Sep 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> Still don't like surprises though...



Well, you'll learn with time that surprises come with the job!


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

Said I didn't like them, never said they didn't exist 

2 years, 00225


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## gaspasser (11 Sep 2008)

Sorry, my goony-goo-goo old farts trade dictionary does not know that one...trade in normal speak???


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## Nfld Sapper (11 Sep 2008)

MAR ENG SYS OP according to CFPAS


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Sep 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> Ok so I read through the entire thing and didn't find anything and that was probably the best document to try and find anything.
> 
> I did however see something very interesting for someone who fails the MPFS... it says that they can request an evaluation by CMTFE (Common Military Tasks Fitness Evaluation). Has anyone ever heard of this being done? Not that I need to or want to but never heard of that before and just curious to know. It can be requested after failing the CF Express twice and is the choice of the member...
> 
> Taken from the CFPSA website http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/fitness/general_e.asp



Klinkaroo,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you are worried about the test.  If not, why would you have read so much about what happens if you fail the EXPRES test?  If you are in an army reserve unit, I believe there is a message out stating as a member of the Army you are required to pass the BFT.  If not, then you are required to pass the EXPRES test for Air Reserve or Naval Reserve.  The DAOD applies to *ALL* CF members.  If you are sure you will pass, then the post above is one no one needs to answer. 

You have, as I see it, the following options:

1.  Do the BFT/EXPRES test, pass and get the Class B callout.

2.  Do the BFT/EXPRES test, fail, dust yourself off and take steps to remedy that situation.  (Being part of the solution)

3.  Go back to the CoC, with a copy of DAOD 5023-2 in hand and point out that your EXPRES test is valid until 1 year of the date it was taken, which you are suggesting your EXPRES test is valid until the end of the Class B you are seeking.  

4.  Do nothing and work somewhere else.

Not knowing the situation, if others are competing for this Class B job and have passed the EXPRES and are qualified you may be SOL getting picked.

I was a Class B Commando for years.  I always did the ruckmarch or the EXPRES test or both.  In 2006 between March and Oct, I did the EXPRES test and the BFT twice each.  I did the EXPRES last Aug and BFT last Oct.  I am no PT god and I have an injury in my back (since 1992).  I didn't worry about it and I didn't have to read the parts of 'what happens if I fail'.  Thats what leads me to believe you ARE worried about it.  Most folks in Army units do ruckmarches on a regular basis, thats why they never worry about a 13 BFT; they do them all the time.

I have listed what I see as your choices here.  You'll have to pick the right one for you.


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## Klinkaroo (11 Sep 2008)

Actually I was asking about the "if you fail twice thing" out of curiosity, because I know of people who had failed twice and we're never offered the option...

Also I ask many questions because this is the only thing that I have ever had a problem with. Never had an exam on a trades course below 80% or have had any other problems ever in the forces... Just the PT test once and I really really don't want it to happen again and if by some bad bad stroke of luck I want to know what my options are because I don't want to lose this job.


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Sep 2008)

Good.  Then based on that...there seems to be no further discussion required.   

You need to only do the EXPRES test, and then start your CL B term.


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## geo (11 Sep 2008)

Well... there is the "exempt" level on the shuttle run.  If you get to that level, you don't have to do the Express test the next year..... umm.... Should I say that it's usually the case BUT, not always the case ???

<<helmets on>> started xmass block leave with an express test in my back pocket.  Come back in January to find out that the CLS had "tweaked" the rules a wee bit.....  all of a sudden, LCols in Command positions AND all Cols + CWOs were obliged to complete the express test each and every year - regardless of that Exemption.

<<helmet off>>  I had all of 5 days notification to do my express test.... been there & done that... but I must say that, when the PSP guy was encouraging me to go for the exemption level - I kindly told him what he could do with his "exemption".


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Sep 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> Actually I was asking about the "if you fail twice thing" out of curiosity, because I know of people who had failed twice and we're never offered the option...
> 
> Also I ask many questions because this is the only thing that I have ever had a problem with. Never had an exam on a trades course below 80% or have had any other problems ever in the forces... Just the PT test once and I really really don't want it to happen again and if by some bad bad stroke of luck I want to know what my options are because I don't want to lose this job.



Then give it your best.  Its all you can do if they insist you do it.  Good luck!


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## Eye In The Sky (11 Sep 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Well... there is the "exempt" level on the shuttle run.  If you get to that level, you don't have to do the Express test the next year..... umm.... Should I say that it's usually the case BUT, not always the case ???
> 
> <<helmets on>> started xmass block leave with an express test in my back pocket.  Come back in January to find out that the CLS had "tweaked" the rules a wee bit.....  all of a sudden, LCols in Command positions AND all Cols + CWOs were obliged to complete the express test each and every year - regardless of that Exemption.
> 
> <<helmet off>>  I had all of 5 days notification to do my express test.... been there & done that... but I must say that, when the PSP guy was encouraging me to go for the exemption level - I kindly told him what he could do with his "exemption".



At that point the holidays were over so you didn't feel the need to be jolly and festive anymore?   

FWIW Geo...I don't agree with why Col's and CWOs do it as a person...as a former green guy, I like the idea that COs and RSMs "lead from the front"...who in The Regiment can say a word when the CO and RSM are doing it?   ;D   I bet no one slipped thru after *that* decision by the CLS.


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## Armymedic (11 Sep 2008)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> As a member of the CF you should always be fit enough to pass the EXPRES test at any time. It is the *minimum* standard after all.



That is the answer for all inquiries as to how much notice etc you require for fitness (Expres) testing.


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## Armymedic (11 Sep 2008)

Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> Actually I was asking about the "if you fail twice thing" out of curiosity, because I know of people who had failed twice and we're never offered the option...



Its outlined in the DOAD I do believe.


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## Fusaki (11 Sep 2008)

> As a member of the CF you should always be fit enough to pass the EXPRES test at any time. It is the minimum standard after all.



And on that note, I put forward the motion that all members are _randomly_ administered the CF express test.

The rifle platoons are randomly checked in 3 ranks for dress and deportment. Units are bugged out at random times to check readiness. Random express tests seem like an excellent way to ensure that everyone maintains a minimum fitness standard. Have real consequences for failure - fill the duty list over Christmas leave. If you're failing the express test you should be skipping that ham and turkey anyways.

I have other ideas too. >


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## SupersonicMax (11 Sep 2008)

Wonderbread, what if you just came back from a 1 hour work out?  Even though on a normal day you would pass, there are certain circumstances that could dictate otherwise.  (Work Out prior, a cold, etc).


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## Towards_the_gap (11 Sep 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> Have real consequences for failure - fill the duty list over Christmas leave.




No, I think remedial PT over Christmas leave would be much more appropriate.

To the original poster, I don't think you're getting much sympathy here. You really have no leg to stand on in regards to how much warning they ''should'' give you, particularly in regards to minimum fitness levels.

Supersonic - good point, however I think any normal CofC would realise this, and also, is there not a form you fill out at the beginning stating you understand the requirements etc, and maybe this would be the time you would put your hand up and say 'Errm can I do it this afternoon? I've just done a 10miler.'


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## George Wallace (11 Sep 2008)

No Can Do.  I'd fail it after my second Lg Double Double after PT.  Need the 24 hr NTM to lay off the caffeine.


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> From DAOD 5023-2:
> 
> *This DAOD is an order that applies to officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces ("CF members").*
> _*Administrative Requirements and Procedures*_
> ...



Just before I duck out of this thread...from a purely CF Policy perspective, and based on the info the OP giving as being true, he isn't required to re-do the EXPRES test before or during the Class B callout.  This is based on the bolded parts of the DAOD and his statement 





			
				Klinkaroo said:
			
		

> I have one valid until the end of my contract



I've had similar discussions with some folks my rank and slightly higher in my unit, and they think that Fitness Tests are based on fiscal years, and they are not.  If I do an EXPRES test on 29 Mar 07, it doesn't 'expire' at the start of the new FY, a few days later.  Lastly?  I agree, anyone and everyone should be ready to do the EXPRES/BFT test *within 24 hours of being told*.  Why do I say 24 hours?  How many people would pull the "but I don't have gym clothes here...".  That leads to my last comments.

Physical fitness is a condition of service (or so says the CDS in the CANFORGENs).  

From DAOD 5023-2:

*Participation* 

*CF members of the Regular Force and Primary Reserve SHALL participate in regular physical fitness training*. COs are responsible to ensure that CF members are provided opportunities to conduct physical fitness activities *during normal working hours when circumstances permit*. When this is not feasible, CF members should *conduct physical fitness activities outside normal working hours*. As general guidance, physical fitness activities should be conducted in 60-minute sessions, *a minimum of five times per week*.

With the word *SHALL* being in the DAOD...if you don't do PT, are not on MELs or excused PT from the CDU...are you not disobeying a lawful command?  If that is disobeying a lawful command, are you and your immediate superior(s) both responsible (as every good leader is responsible for his/her troops)?  So doesn't the poor PT performance in some people go on their shoulders AND whoever was responsible to supervise them?

Maybe thats a whole new thread.


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## HItorMiss (12 Sep 2008)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Wonderbread, what if you just came back from a 1 hour work out?  Even though on a normal day you would pass, there are certain circumstances that could dictate otherwise.  (Work Out prior, a cold, etc).




Even after a 1 hour workout I can sill pass an Express test because it's a bloody joke. I would hope that someone even after time in the Gym could still do 19 push ups...and do 6.5 on a run


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## geo (12 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> At that point the holidays were over so you didn't feel the need to be jolly and festive anymore?
> 
> FWIW Geo...I don't agree with why Col's and CWOs do it as a person...as a former green guy, I like the idea that COs and RSMs "lead from the front"...who in The Regiment can say a word when the CO and RSM are doing it?   ;D   I bet no one slipped thru after *that* decision by the CLS.



Understand, I have no problem doing it, I was just upset at the time by having this thrown at me at the last second.
If all CWOs had to do it, I figured that all LCols would have to do it as well - what is good for the goose is good for the gander (sorta speak)


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## George Wallace (12 Sep 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Well... there is the "exempt" level on the shuttle run.  If you get to that level, you don't have to do the Express test the next year..... umm.... Should I say that it's usually the case BUT, not always the case ???
> 
> <<helmets on>> started xmass block leave with an express test in my back pocket.  Come back in January to find out that the CLS had "tweaked" the rules a wee bit.....  all of a sudden, LCols in Command positions AND all Cols + CWOs were obliged to complete the express test each and every year - regardless of that Exemption.
> 
> <<helmet off>>  I had all of 5 days notification to do my express test.... been there & done that... but I must say that, when the PSP guy was encouraging me to go for the exemption level - I kindly told him what he could do with his "exemption".



Here at LFCA, it came down in the past year, that all CO's and RSM's are expected to get "Exempt" on their CF Expres tests.  Next year, all the officers and Snr NCO's must.  This policy is supposed to gradually expand from the top down, so that eventually all pers are expected to achieve an "Exempt".

I always smile when the PSP guy tells me that with "Exempt" you don't have to do it 'next year'.  Obviously (s)he has never been in a Cbt Arms unit.   ;D


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## geo (12 Sep 2008)

COs and RSMs - not a problem - I think it is just right that they should "lead" their men from the front BUT, those Lcols who are not in a command position are not required to do the express test if they hit the exempt level the previous year.... while CWOs will - that's my beef


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## George Wallace (12 Sep 2008)

Geo

I agree with you.  If it is going to be enforced on one, it should be enforced on all.  People in senior positions, who think that they have found a 'loophole' to avoid a CF Expres Test, or not make the required standard should be castigated.  If they want to threaten people with Release, or other Administrative Actions, then they must also follow the same rules.......no exceptions.

I still remember the Warriors Badge and how the standards were dropped a few times, because the instigator of that 'Badge" could not achieve the Gold level.  It truly made the whole award a farce.  If Senior officers and NCMs are acting in a similar manner with the CF Expres Test, then it makes a farce of these standards also.


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## SupersonicMax (12 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Even after a 1 hour workout I can sill pass an Express test because it's a bloody joke. I would hope that someone even after time in the Gym could still do 19 push ups...and do 6.5 on a run



You and I may be able, not everybody would be.


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## HItorMiss (12 Sep 2008)

That's the problem right there isn't it...

I am a big fan of the surprise Express test. Most units do some type of organized PT, so on say a Monday you are scheduled to do a run with your PL...turns out surprise you are doing the Express test. Now you have no worries about troops going crazy at the gym before hand because they already know they have unit PT as well.


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## George Wallace (12 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> That's the problem right there isn't it...
> 
> I am a big fan of the surprise Express test. Most units do some type of organized PT, so on say a Monday you are scheduled to do a run with your PL...turns out surprise you are doing the Express test. Now you have no worries about troops going crazy at the gym before hand because they already know they have unit PT as well.



I agree, but I have to point out that if done correctly, unless you give everyone 24 hrs notice, many will fail before they even get to start.  Caffeine and some medication will have their Heart Rates outside of the acceptable norms to start the CF Expres test

(Notice: No double "s" on the word Expres.)    ;D


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## blacktriangle (12 Sep 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Here at LFCA, it came down in the past year, that all CO's and RSM's are expected to get "Exempt" on their CF Expres tests.  Next year, all the officers and Snr NCO's must.  This policy is supposed to gradually expand from the top down, so that eventually all pers are expected to achieve an "Exempt".
> 
> I always smile when the PSP guy tells me that with "Exempt" you don't have to do it 'next year'.  Obviously (s)he has never been in a Cbt Arms unit.   ;D



Are they kidding? 

Many of the aforementioned can not even pass the normal express test, or simple things like a PWT. If that's going to be the new standard, what are they going to do when a great deal of people fail to achieve? I'm not standing up for these people by any means, I just doubt LFCA will follow through with consequences...


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Sep 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> Are they kidding?
> 
> Many of the aforementioned can not even pass the normal express test, or simple things like a PWT. If that's going to be the new standard, what are they going to do when a great deal of people fail to achieve? I'm not standing up for these people by any means, I just doubt LFCA will follow through with consequences...



First...I took a look at your profile...you've seen how much of LFCA?  (I've never served in LFCA, only within LFAA and at CTC)  I am guessing that your post above is based on what you've seen in your former PRes unit(s)?  I am not sure I would want to paint that brush so widely on the Officers, WOs, Snr NCOs, Jnr NCOs and soldiers in Pet at 2 CMBG/units.  Again, I've never served in LFCA but I have worked with and known lots from there.  My first experience with folks from LFCA was in '92 on Basic Para at (then) CABC and I can't remember a single person on that course from Pet that fits the post of yours above, or the Res Cmbt Engrs from LFCA units that were on the course either.  They were ALL fit, keen, able soldiers.  And I've worked with many since then.  Sure, some weren't the sharpest knife in the kitchen but...neither was I.  Maybe your opinion on your capabilities and fitness will change when you hit Wainwright...

Be careful with the wide "LFCA" brush...just my $0.02.


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## blacktriangle (12 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> First...I took a look at your profile...you've seen how much of LFCA?  (I've never served in LFCA, only within LFAA and at CTC)  I am guessing that your post above is based on what you've seen in your former PRes unit(s)?  I am not sure I would want to paint that brush so widely on the Officers, WOs, Snr NCOs, Jnr NCOs and soldiers in Pet at 2 CMBG/units.  Again, I've never served in LFCA but I have worked with and known lots from there.  My first experience with folks from LFCA was in '92 on Basic Para at (then) CABC and I can't remember a single person on that course from Pet that fits the post of yours above, or the Res Cmbt Engrs from LFCA units that were on the course either.  They were ALL fit, keen, able soldiers.  And I've worked with many since then.  Sure, some weren't the sharpest knife in the kitchen but...neither was I.  Maybe your opinion on your capabilities and fitness will change when you hit Wainwright...
> 
> Be careful with the wide "LFCA" brush...just my $0.02.



Far enough I was talking to the reserve side, but they are still LFCA are they not? Or is this a regs thing only? Yes I know all about the 40 something RCD, RCR etc WOs that can PT me into the ground, they have my respect and were not the ones I was talking about. I think my question is still valid, what happens when people fail to meet the standard. 

Also as an aside, in no way did I say I was in amazing shape or a super soldier..and if I fail out of Wainwright horribly thats my own fault, and I get out and can go be ashamed of myself somewhere not collecting pay.

Regardless though, I retract my wide brush and will slink back to my hole. Cheers


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