# Want to release but course loaded



## Murphy709 (1 Jul 2016)

Just got back from a 5 day tasking, during this time I have realized that he army isn't for me as I don't really like being away from my family. Although I am due to go away for the summer leaving on Sunday. But want to release and not have to go whatsoever. Is this possible? Thanks.


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## Murphy709 (1 Jul 2016)

Reserve force might I add


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## Oldgateboatdriver (1 Jul 2016)

Monday morning, show up at your unit's regulating office or admin office (whatever they call the support cell of regular force personnel) and indicate you wish to stop training and release immediately.

They will advise you on forms to be filled and steps to be taken. Reservists have no set terms of service and are allowed to ask for a voluntary release any time they want.

I strongly suggest you bring with you all of the uniforms and equipment you may have been issued with so far, in order to be able to proceed to out routines without any delays.


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## Jarnhamar (1 Jul 2016)

To add to what OGBD said whatever you do, do NOT get talked into going on whatever course or tasking you're supposed to go on if you want to release. There's a good chance your unit will try and convince you to go because they probably think if you show up there you'll change your mind. It's also a lot less immediate paper work for them to just send you away on a task.

If you DO show up and immediately ask to quit and go home then you'll be wasting the staffs time (as well as your own) and creating more paperwork and shit for them to deal with.


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## RocketRichard (1 Jul 2016)

Murphy709 said:
			
		

> Reserve force might I add


Hello.  The advice offered is sound. What brigade are you with?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mariomike (1 Jul 2016)

Murphy709 said:
			
		

> Reserve force might I add



Change your mind about the Regular Force as well ?



			
				Murphy709 said:
			
		

> I've recently been enrolled in the Inf. Reserves and was planning to stick with the reserves for a few years and try for a CT to RegF.


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## Murphy709 (1 Jul 2016)

Yup I did change my mind actually. I'm proud of myself for giving it a fair go and sticking around for almost 2 years but it's just not what I want to do. Sorry that it doesn't please everyone else. Thanks for the info fellas.


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## PuckChaser (1 Jul 2016)

It happens, you gave it a shot. Some come back and re-enroll in a few years, realizing they really did like it, some stay away. You're not the first or last.


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## Murphy709 (7 Jul 2016)

I'm on my dp1 course and am suffering from some non immediate family deaths back home, I have put in a voluntary withdrawal and am waiting to leave. It's been days. I'm depressed and cannot stop crying on my own time. I want to release from the CF as soon as I get out of here. Everyone I talk to on the course says there's nothing they can do but I have to keep training until it gets approved or disapproved. I can't keep doing this. I'm dying inside more and more everyday. Someone please give me some pointers how to speed this up if I can at all


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## ballz (7 Jul 2016)

Go see the Padre. I am not a praying man but they sure are handy to have around when a member's compassionate circumstances come up. And they have the ear of the Commanding Officer on all compassionate issues.


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## Murphy709 (7 Jul 2016)

ballz said:
			
		

> Go see the Padre. I am not a praying man but they sure are handy to have around when a member's compassionate circumstances come up. And they have the ear of the Commanding Officer on all compassionate issues.


 I already spoke to him, he's on my file but it hasn't got to the CO yet which sucks I just can't do this anymore I don't have another day in me let alone 5


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## mariomike (7 Jul 2016)

Murphy709 said:
			
		

> I'm depressed and cannot stop crying on my own time.





			
				Murphy709 said:
			
		

> I'm dying inside more and more everyday.





			
				Murphy709 said:
			
		

> I just can't do this anymore I don't have another day in me let alone 5



Have you reached out to a health-care professional?

For reference, perhaps "Trying to get off a course and release" will be merged with the other VR discussion Murphy709 started,

Want to release but course loaded 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123469/post-1443057.html#msg1443057


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## ballz (8 Jul 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Have you reached out to a health-care professional?



That was my next question. 

Go to the doctor and tell them the issues you're having. If you want, stop in and tell the Padre on your way that you are going to seek healthcare for mental health so that they are in the loop.

The paperwork can probably speed up, but more importantly the medical system can get you pretty much whatever they assess are your needs.

Also, every member can request to speak directly to their Commanding Officer, you can request it in the form of a memo. Honestly, it shouldn't be that cumbersome to voluntarily withdraw from a course.


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## DAA (8 Jul 2016)

ballz said:
			
		

> Also, every member can request to speak directly to their Commanding Officer, you can request it in the form of a memo. Honestly, it shouldn't be that cumbersome to voluntarily withdraw from a course.



Yes, you can ask to speak directly with the CO but for someone undergoing initial occupation training, it's highly unlikely and the highest you might get to, is the OC level.

By their own admission "I'm on my dp1 course and am suffering from some non immediate family deaths back home."  If the death involved what is considered to be an "immediate" family member (ie; Mother, Father, Brother, Sister or spouses family member) the individual would probably have been granted Compassionate Leave already.

Once they start their DP1 training, they're pretty much committed to follow through until completion.  When a "Request for Release" has been submitted, they will still continue their training while the release application process runs it's course.  In most cases, the trainee comes to terms with the issues and carries on with their career in the CAF.   The reasoning behind the delays are probably intended to allow them time to reconsider their decision to quit.  This is not for our benefit but for that of the member.

I'm sure you can find many people in the CAF today, who tried or said they wanted to quit during their Basic or initial Occupation Training, received tough love or good counselling, stuck it out and are more than happy they did.

Cases such as this, tend to lead to a future application to the CAF.      :facepalm:


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Jul 2016)

Let`s not paint everyone with the same brush, though. 

The poster is saying things that tell me he/she should be going to the next Sick Parade possible to talk to CF H Svcs professionals.  You've got to consider things about 'continuing on with trg' when a student's mental state is at question.  Is the candidate doing driver training (AFVs on highways during roadmoves, example)?  Live range practices?  Etc.  It can't be a cooker cutter decision.

I don't like how the CAF uses the "immediate family member" stuff as a filter.  Does the way someone might react to a death or serious injury link directly to it?  Nope.

My  :2c: is the member should report to sick parade or speak to the Duty MO if they can't wait until Monday.  Regardless of what we think, there is a duty to look after the mbr's welfare.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Jul 2016)

And has SFA to do with what the COA should be when people are heard/seen to be using some key/trigger phrases.  

Maybe you should limit your responses in areas such as this to your actual knowledge from experience in the CAF.  Being a Google Ninja isn't always helpful.


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Jul 2016)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Maybe you should limit your responses in areas such as this to your actual knowledge from experience in the CAF.  Being a Google Ninja isn't always helpful.



That isn't a chip on my shoulder.  It's a fact.  Your 2 years in the militia XX years ago leaves you with no real, current experience in the CAF.  
If you find me pointing that out offensive or "a chip", well you'll have to fuckin' deal with that.  I call it how I see it.  Don't like it? Ignoring me is free of charge.

I don't post in the EMS threads, because I have no credible experience in that area.  Having dealt with suicidal/potentially suicidal recruits/young soldiers before, troops having issues that are causing them distress?  I have experience in that directly, and more than once from oh, about 1993 to very recently.  

If you have any other 'hurt feelings' type responses to me in this thread, send me a PM.   :


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## Eye In The Sky (8 Jul 2016)

:facepalm:

Who said I was replying to anything you said in the first place?  Did you see DAAs post above mine?  Great, you suggested it first.  Take your pat on the back.  Who cares, as long the OP gets to talk to the people it appears he/she should talk to.  They can then make their assessment; not my gig.  I am not the suicide SME, I do have trg in suicide FA and experience (from before I had the course, unfortunately).

Why did I post the go sick parade, or call the Duty MO?  Simple; the poster can click on my profile and see I'm a current serving Air Force, ex-army type with XX years experience, and decide if my opinion is credible or not.  

Despite what you might wish, my post on here had nothing to do with you.  If you want to play  :slapfight:, do it on PMs.  For the respect for the site, as you say.


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## Jarnhamar (8 Jul 2016)

Murphy709 said:
			
		

> I'm on my dp1 course and am suffering from some non immediate family deaths back home, I have put in a voluntary withdrawal and am waiting to leave. It's been days. I'm depressed and cannot stop crying on my own time. I want to release from the CF as soon as I get out of here. Everyone I talk to on the course says there's nothing they can do but I have to keep training until it gets approved or disapproved. I can't keep doing this. I'm dying inside more and more everyday. Someone please give me some pointers how to speed this up if I can at all



Let me play devils advocate a little here.

Not too long ago you posted this


> Just got back from a 5 day tasking, *during this time I have realized that he army isn't for me as I don't really like being away from my family. Although I am due to go away for the summer leaving on Sunday. But want to release and not have to go whatsoever.* Is this possible? Thanks.



Followed by



> Yup I did change my mind actually. I'm proud of myself for giving it a fair go and sticking around for almost 2 years but it's just not what I want to do. Sorry that it doesn't please everyone else. Thanks for the info fellas.



Now reading your latest post you ended up going on course anyways (ignoring my advice and others advice) and all of a sudden you have deaths in your non-immediate family and your whole life is exploding and you have to quit.


I'm not saying you're not being truthful, I'm sure you are, but just so you know your chain of command is going to look into those deaths (including calling the hospital, funeral home, etc..). and if it looks like you're making an excuse to quit (like the non-immediate death was a kid you played soccer with in grade 6) they're probably going to make it harder on you to rtu.


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## ballz (10 Jul 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> Yes, you can ask to speak directly with the CO but for someone undergoing initial occupation training, it's highly unlikely and the highest you might get to, is the OC level.



I hope what you meant to say is "the highest you might get to _before the issue is resolved_ is the OC level," which of course, I would agree with as these kind of things are generally fairly easy to deal with once someone with some actual authority to do anything is brought into the loop.

If you were referring to the CoC, however, just throwing the memo in the garbage, or the CO saying "don't care, sort it out OC," well, I'm sorry that your experience has obviously shown you some pretty poor examples of leadership.



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> By their own admission "I'm on my dp1 course and am suffering from some non immediate family deaths back home."  If the death involved what is considered to be an "immediate" family member (ie; Mother, Father, Brother, Sister or spouses family member) the individual would probably have been granted Compassionate Leave already.



I'm also with EITS on this one on the use of "immediate family" member. It's not a bad rule of thumb, but luckily the leave manual leaves what is compassionate and what is not entirely up to the Commanding Officer.

EDIT: And perhaps the CO has already looked at it and determined it is not a significantly grievous situation. Who knows. 



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> Once they start their DP1 training, they're pretty much committed to follow through until completion.  When a "Request for Release" has been submitted, they will still continue their training while the release application process runs it's course.  In most cases, the trainee comes to terms with the issues and carries on with their career in the CAF.   The reasoning behind the delays are probably intended to allow them time to reconsider their decision to quit.  This is not for our benefit but for that of the member.
> 
> I'm sure you can find many people in the CAF today, who tried or said they wanted to quit during their Basic or initial Occupation Training, received tough love or good counselling, stuck it out and are more than happy they did.
> 
> Cases such as this, tend to lead to a future application to the CAF.      :facepalm:



While I wish our recruiting process was better, it's not, and we end up with people in situations where they feel trapped by the machine. I don't know the OP, I'd prefer not to pass judgement on his/her individual circumstances and provide them with the direction they need. If they are not fit for service, and re-apply, and we take them back, shame on us. If only the machine could look inward at its own incompetence sometimes.


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## mariomike (10 Jul 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> Cases such as this, tend to lead to a future application to the CAF.      :facepalm:





			
				ballz said:
			
		

> If they are not fit for service, and re-apply, and we take them back, shame on us.



Milpoints to both of you.


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## Murphy709 (11 Jul 2016)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Let`s not paint everyone with the same brush, though.
> 
> The poster is saying things that tell me he/she should be going to the next Sick Parade possible to talk to CF H Svcs professionals.  You've got to consider things about 'continuing on with trg' when a student's mental state is at question.  Is the candidate doing driver training (AFVs on highways during roadmoves, example)?  Live range practices?  Etc.  It can't be a cooker cutter decision.
> 
> ...


 I have spoken with 3 Padres, mental health people and told them how I was feeling they put me on 4 days excused duty. Had my PRB today and the committee recommends I stay for training. I just want to get the fuck out of here before I hurt myself I'm so upset about this whole mess. I just hate everything here. No one I talk to has gotten me any further ahead.


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## mariomike (11 Jul 2016)

Murphy709 said:
			
		

> I have spoken with 3 Padres, mental health people and told them how I was feeling they put me on 4 days excused duty. Had my PRB today and the committee recommends I stay for training. I just want to get the fuck out of here before I hurt myself I'm so upset about this whole mess. I just hate everything here. No one I talk to has gotten me any further ahead.



Did you mention that to the "mental health people" you spoke to?


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## Murphy709 (11 Jul 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Did you mention that to the "mental health people" you spoke to?


 yes I have. I've tried every possible thing to get me out of here.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (11 Jul 2016)

Alright. I am confused and I don't get it.

This person claims to be a reservist.

A reservist cannot under any circumstances, other than an actual activation of the reserves by order of the Governor General or a duly signed class "C" contract, be forced to work or stay in the CF even one more day than  from the one he/she asks for release. Period. End of statement That is it.

ANY reservist on a course that indicates he/she wishes to release is absolutely and without any other delay or attempt at changing his/her mind, to bet R.T.U'd immediately. And his own unit is to process the release without any delays, unless there are disciplinary aspects to this we are not aware of.

Nothing else will do as reservists have no set duration of service and serve as volunteers at their own will.

I don't know if this person is telling us the truth, but if he/she is, then there is very serious potential for redress action against his chain of command at the training base ... or at his home unit if it is aware of the situation and not doing anything.

That's it and that's all. You cannot keep reservists against their will. All of this talk of death, near death, potential death in the family is irrelevant: Reservist said I want t quit the CF - That's it. Game over.

Murphy709: _If what you indicate in these forum is true_, then write on a piece of paper/memo form addressed to your course OC that you have indicated your wish to quit the CF to your course instructor on - indicate date  - but they refuse and he/she (the OC) refuses to process you back to your unit to process the release and that if he/she (the OC) does not take immediate corrective action in the next 24 hours, you will have no choice but file a complaint with the MP's for unlawful confinement.


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Jul 2016)

Or if you wanted, you could file a grievance.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-07.page

If that was a course of action you would consider, you could file a Notice on Intent to grieve, and IAW the QR & Os, make an oral complaint to your CO before submitting a grievance.

7.04 - ORAL COMPLAINT

The right to grieve does not preclude an officer or non-commissioned member from making an oral complaint to their commanding officer before submitting a grievance.


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## Murphy709 (12 Jul 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Alright. I am confused and I don't get it.
> 
> This person claims to be a reservist.
> Everything said here is true and is as well in my pers file that was used at my PRB. During the PRB some major read something out of the DAODs or whatever and said that my withdrawal does not have to be accepted. The doctor just put me on two weeks sick leave so he thinks they will have to RTU me for missing so much trg. I understand that reservists are voluntary workers. But it really doesn't seem like it up here. I was on excused duty the past 4 days and the staff still had me with the course over those days doing activities such as nav and etc. I would raise my right hand in a courtroom that everything here is true.
> ...



Everything said here is true and is as well in my pers file that was used at my PRB. During the PRB some major read something out of the DAODs or whatever and said that my withdrawal does not have to be accepted. The doctor just put me on two weeks sick leave so he thinks they will have to RTU me for missing so much trg. I understand that reservists are voluntary workers. But it really doesn't seem like it up here. I was on excused duty the past 4 days and the staff still had me with the course over those days doing activities such as nav and etc. I would raise my right hand in a courtroom that everything here is true. The medical officer said he is sorry about my case as he thinks it is ridiculous as well.


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Jul 2016)

The MO put you on excused duties and the course staff still made you conduct trg as if that wasn't the case?

Where exactly are you?


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## Oldgateboatdriver (12 Jul 2016)

I agree with EITS here: Where are you?

This still doesn't make sense to me.

The PRB and the DAOD giving authority to not accept your withdrawal: That's for either a failure to perform during the course or in case you request to voluntarily drop out of  the course. Not for releasing from the CF.

Is your unit aware of your situation? If not contact them immediately.

But listen carefully here: Vocabulary is important. You must state clearly and unequivocally that you are indicating (not "requesting") to them that you are immediately releasing from the CF and are requesting immediate RTU to proceed with the said release. Put it in writing, send copy to your unit, have a witness you trust when handing it over to your OC.

Be aware, however, there is no turning back. Once at your home unit, you will release.

You should have taken my original advice, and that of Jarnhamar and not let your unit talk you into going to the course.


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## Murphy709 (12 Jul 2016)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> The MO put you on excused duties and the course staff still made you conduct trg as if that wasn't the case?
> 
> Where exactly are you?


 they didn't have me handle weapons, but on the weekend when it was a little more relaxed they made me participate in the nav classes as well as practical outside. I am at CFB gagetown.


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## Murphy709 (12 Jul 2016)

Situation is under control. Thanks for the help folks. Means a lot.


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## Murphy709 (12 Jul 2016)

Another quick question. I'm on course but have been given 14 days sick leave. What are the chances that I will be sent home before the leave is over?


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## Jarnhamar (12 Jul 2016)

I would guess likely none.  You'll most likely need to complete your 14 days sick leave. 

Really weird that your course staff forced you to violate the medical systems  directions and make you do training while on excused duties. 

So why did you go away on course even though you knew you didn't want to be in the army anymore and multiple people told you not to? 

As well,  like I cautioned about the death in the non-immediate family,  if you're telling your  staff you're going  to hurt yourself if they don't let you quit you may be opening yourself up for other administrative issues. 
Such as being sent on psychiatric evaluation,  put on suicide watch where someone doesn't leave your side or possibly even admitted to the hospital under the mental health act.  

"I'm going to hurt myself" isn't always the free ticket I think some people think it is.


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## Murphy709 (12 Jul 2016)

You are right. It's not a free ticket and I didn't view it as such. I feel trapped here and want out. Sorry for feeling this way. But although, my address while on leave on the leave form is my home address.


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Jul 2016)

So, you were given 14 days sick leave and the leave pass the course gave you has your home address as the place you're going to spend it?

If that's the case, get out of there and go home. Ensure that your Crse WO and OC are aware you're leaving. A quick memo will do it. Hand deliver it and get their signatures on your copy.

Go home, go to your unit and tell them to get your release stuff going and you'll be in to sign off and return kit at the end of the 14 days.

Once you're home and have established contact with your unit, don't listen to anything you may receive from the course staff. You're not their concern anymore. If they do contact you, be polite and request any queries are to go through your unit first and, if required, they will action things and contact you.

Have your unit contact the course and tell them you will not be returning and are in the midst of releasing.

Good luck to you.


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## Murphy709 (12 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> So, you were given 14 days sick leave and the leave pass the course gave you has your home address as the place you're going to spend it?
> 
> If that's the case, get out of there and go home. Ensure that your Crse WO and OC are aware you're leaving. A quick memo will do it. Hand deliver it and get their signatures on your copy.
> 
> ...


 the doctor gave me the chit with sick leave as well the leave pass just waiting to get it signed off on. But that sounds like a prime idea to myself. Thanks brother. Can the course deny my leave pass to go home although the med officer gave it to me?


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## Fishbone Jones (12 Jul 2016)

If the Med Officer stipulated you are to do it at home, for medical reasons, then the course has no say. If they don't action it or slow action it, let the Doc know they are countermanding his orders.

Do you have your own car there or do you need the military to provide transport home?


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## Murphy709 (12 Jul 2016)

recceguy said:
			
		

> If the Med Officer stipulated you are to do it at home, for medical reasons, then the course has no say. If they don't action it or slow action it, let the Doc know they are countermanding his orders.
> 
> Do you have your own car there or do you need the military to provide transport home?


 unfortunately they have to book me a flight back home.


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## PuckChaser (12 Jul 2016)

Murphy709 said:
			
		

> Can the course deny my leave pass to go home although the med officer gave it to me?



No. Sick leave is only granted by a MO, or revoked by that MO. As long as you're not "Excused duties" and are on "Sick Leave", the course should be booking a flight home now.


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## ballz (12 Jul 2016)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> No. Sick leave is only granted by a MO, or revoked by that MO.



Which is why 42 Health Services (here in Gagetown) usually has the leave pass signed off by the MO and a copy faxed over to the member's unit... a good practice... strange they didn't follow it in this one specific circumstance?

  :trainwreck:


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## PuckChaser (12 Jul 2016)

I've rarely seen a sick leave pass until well after the fact, but I didn't have to fly home, just a short drive.


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## Murphy709 (13 Jul 2016)

All good folks I'm out cleared and ready to go. This thread can be locked/deleted.


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## PuckChaser (13 Jul 2016)

Glad everything worked out in the end.


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## The Bread Guy (13 Jul 2016)

Good luck with whatever comes next for you.

And thanks to all who helped out.
*Milnet.ca Staff*


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