# Burgers and massages in the middle of the desert



## GAP (2 Sep 2008)

Burgers and massages in the middle of the desert
Improvements give soldiers comforts and a little home away from home
Last Updated: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 | 5:08 PM ET Comments1Recommend3By Derek Stoffel, CBC News 
Article Link

The first thing I did upon arriving for my third CBC News assignment at Kandahar Airfield was to find out what's new. I have to admit that what I found surprised me.

Located in a brand-new, pink-sided building is the Lai Thai Spa, where sore soldiers and civilians can head when they need a massage. Prices at the massage clinic start at $27 for a basic treatment, and although the place has only been open for about 24 hours, the booking sheet is filled.

You may not think getting a rubdown may be top of mind for the thousands of soldiers and civilians based at KAF. But it is in keeping with what has to be the underlying principle of this sprawling airbase southeast of Kandahar City: Make it seem like you're back at home, not in Afghanistan.

Need more proof? Well, just walk around the 'catwalk' (why someone chose to call the boardwalk here that, I'll never understand) to the new ice cream stand right next to the always busy Tim Hortons. And although the Burger King is no longer here (the talk on base is that the flame grilling got a bit out of hand and the trailer almost burned down), McDonald's is building its newest location here on base.

Walk through the gravel to the British end of the base, and you'll find two coffee shops — decked out in modern furnishings — that feel a lot like a posh joint on London's Oxford Street.

Better tents and stronger coffee
Kandahar Airfield is a sprawling complex of temporary tents with more permanent buildings being added every day. It's estimated that as many as 15,000 people — a mix of soldiers and civilians — call KAF home when they're in Afghanistan (the vast majority of Canada's 2,500 soldiers are stationed on the base). And that number keeps growing.

When I first came in the spring of 2006, this base was still quite large, but lacked a lot of the material comforts that have been added in the last two years.
More on link


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## HItorMiss (2 Sep 2008)

CSA you are 100% correct. The frustrating bit is when you get into KAF and are treated second class by those KAFites that never leave the damn wire...and those that have been treated that way know exactualy what I am talking about!


EDIT: For clarity


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## Koenigsegg (2 Sep 2008)

I'm not saying this applies to KAF, as I appreciate the support the troops are getting.
But, there can be a fine line between supporting the soldiers (and the civilians), and profiteering.


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## aesop081 (2 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> and those that have been know exactualy what I am talking about!



I'm sorry but with all due respect, although some of us have not been there (yet), we know what thats like. It was the same for UNPROFOR when we went to the CANLOGBAT camp in Split, it was the same on KFOR when we went to the NSE camp in Skopje.

Operations in Afghanistan have changed alot of things, but the "second class citizen" thing, isnt one of them.


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## HItorMiss (2 Sep 2008)

Apologies CDN,

I didn't mean that the way it came it reads I mean those that were treated that way in KAF, I should have specified.


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## George Wallace (2 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> Apologies CDN,
> 
> I didn't mean that the way it came it reads I mean those that were treated that way in KAF, I should have specified.



I still don't think you understand what CDN Aviator said.  The way you were treated at KAF, is nothing new.  We have been treated like this on every deployment by people in CANLOGBATs, NSEs, etc. throughout all our Tours.  KAF is just one more.


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## HItorMiss (2 Sep 2008)

No I got it GW, And I am talking about a specific in context to this article.


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## brihard (2 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> CSA you are 100% correct. The frustrating bit is when you get into KAF and are treated second class by those KAFites that never leave the damn wire...and those that have been treated that way know exactualy what I am talking about!
> 
> 
> EDIT: For clarity



I'm not at all questioning that it happens- I'm just wondering, why do you think it does?

There's nothing implied in that question- I'm honestly curious what you think about it.


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## HItorMiss (2 Sep 2008)

Complex question...

Answering it from my limited knowledge would probably offend, I'll leave to others


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## Sig_Des (3 Sep 2008)

Before this goes more into the "Us vs Them" issue, I think it's easier to step back and look at it as a whole.

Creature comforts are nice. It is nice to be able to have Tims, etc.

But like CSA said, it's a double-edged sword. Once you start expecting those creature comforts, and are in an environment where you start taking them for granted, it then leads to complacency.

The problem, imho, is that once you start bringing all those pieces of home with you, you then have your head at home, and not on objectives.

As to the division between OTW types vs KAFites, well, I don't even want to get sucked into that kind of argument.


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## Fusaki (3 Sep 2008)

> The more we push the personnel stationed there further into the softness and complacency that too much creature comfort encourages, the more we weaken our team by fostering the already existing "us and them/OTW vs Kafasaurus" split.



~shrugs~

I'm going to be bitching about the Hesco Hobbits and KAFasauruses regardless of how much or of how little they have. Even if KAF stripped itself down to the bare minimum it would still be cushy go. Quite frankly, when I did get into KAF, I enjoyed the Burger King and the pizza, and the hard shacks, showers, and Canada House - not to mention the Green Bean, Iced Caps, and that espresso bar in the Brit lines. I'd hate to lose all that.

I for one, was not jealous of the creature comforts offered to those who lived in KAF. I begged, borrowed, and stole what I could to make my own life more comfortable whenever I could. What makes the "outside the wire" troops angry at the KAFites is this:

1) Sunday Routine. I have less then 48 hours back inside the wire, but by the time maintenance is done and it's time for personal admin Sunday has rolled around and the clerks are taking the day off.

2) Seargents Major who don't leave KAF. "No Sir, I don't have my shave chit on me."

3) Officers who don't understand that the shortest lines for the welfare phones are when everyone else is hiding from rockets in the bunkers.

4) Not getting socks from the civvie supply people. I happen to like the black socks, thank you. And I _know_ you've got some back there. And Yes, I need a new ranger blanket, my last one was BIPed.

I'm sure there are good reasons for all these things. But they're frustrating nonetheless. The guys and gals in KAF can have all the Timmies and Thai massages they want. As long as they support us when we need it, and leave us alone when we don't.


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## Cloud Cover (3 Sep 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> 2) Seargents Major who don't leave KAF. "No Sir, I don't have my shave chit on me."



Some things will never, ever change.


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2008)

From past experiences, some of the things have been:  

"We want to send our people on Lve/HLTA and we need you guys in the FOBs/CANBATs/etc. to send us some drivers or we won't have any Truckers to bring you supplies."

"OH!  Seeing as you experience Cbt Arms types are here in Camp, you can do the Camp Security and Gate Guards for us."

Two sets of rules:  One for Camp personnel and One for "Visitors" from the FOBs/CANBATs/etc.

Supplies clearly marked for CANBATS in NSE Canteens (TVs, VCRs, DVD Players, Patio furniture, etc.) <---- A Split story.

Stacks of broken electronics in NSE from the FOBs/CANBATs/etc. awaiting parts while there are working electronics in NSE Canteens/Rest Areas, but none are being sent out to the Troops, because they would only be "broken".

Civilians working as if they are keeping 8 to 4 hours, in small town Canada, and ready to go outside the Gate for beers at quiting time.

Horror stories like those are what really pisses the boys and girls off who are out on the Line, and there are hundreds more.  Two different mentalities.


(recceguy:  Notice I never mentioned the condition of SEACANs arriving at our end.   ;D )


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## Franko (3 Sep 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> 1) Sunday Routine. I have less then 48 hours back inside the wire, but by the time maintenance is done and it's time for personal admin Sunday has rolled around and the clerks are taking the day off.



Crap....forgot about that one. Thanks for reminding me.     

I guess D+1 will be postponed for them to have the day off.     :

Regards


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## 1feral1 (3 Sep 2008)

Greetings to all,

During my time on my tour at the LSA out of Ali Al Salem in Kuwait, there was creature comforts abound.

It was all on a gravel base, and had a main street like Dodge City of Gunsmoke.

Sure, there was the PX, Green Beans Coffee, KFC, Pizza Hut and McDonalds, plus a jewellery maker and other shops, but there was also a Philippino massage place too, which for $40US one could have an hour's massage. A honest place, and a much needed massage. I went once on my way home.

I don't have issues with a location whicvh offers some comforts of home, after all it was an LSA (Life Support Area)  for Coaltion Forces heading north into the Badlands. Troops from all over heading to both AFG and Iraq were presesnt transiting through. I ran into Polish, UK, US, Australian and others from South America, South Korea, and even Japan.

LSA Kuwait was/is busy all the time. Troops incoming and outgoing.

Along with these shops, was the USO and MWR Centres, DFAC and the usual stuff. The USO Centres were the best, so relaxed one had to remove his boots to enter.

This LSA is a staging area, not too far from the Iraqi border.

In theatre in Baghdad around the airport at Victory and Liberty there are PXs, and at Victory another section of Burger King, Cinnebon, numerous shops to spend your hard earned USDs. Oh yes, adn one huge bizaar, which was keen to rip you blind, so beware.

In the IZ, there is also a PX, Burger King, Pizza Inn, Subway, and other shops which cater to Coalition Forces and Civvy contractors.

On a personal note, it was nice to have a few of these places at hand for the occasional treat etc. It was good for the morale of all, including mine.

I found it in no way distracting for our unit battle rythym. There was little or no complaciency with us, as the tempo was always hairy assed, and you never knew who/what was around the corner.

This was 2006-2007.

My 2 cents.

Happy days,

OWDU

EDITed for spelling


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## Greymatters (3 Sep 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> 1) Sunday Routine. I have less then 48 hours back inside the wire, but by the time maintenance is done and it's time for personal admin Sunday has rolled around and the clerks are taking the day off.



Some places in the past became highly responsive to members from outside areas by establishing 'on call' policies for those who have limited time to get things done.  Unfortunately, too many overseas main base deployments treated Saturday and Sunday as "Im off duty days"... unless of course you were high enough rank to get special attention...


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## adaminc (3 Sep 2008)

I'm not in the military yet (just got merit listed) so I obviously have never been on deployment, but I do have a question. Is there some sort of dissociation between people, NCMs or Officers, who work solely on base (e.g. support trades) v.s. people who work "outside the wire" (e.g. combat trades)? Like, they don't really "hang out" when the people outside the wire come back on base?

To me it sounds sort of like how the Officers and NCMs don't usually hang out together. But this is between NCMs or between Officers.

Just wondering.


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## Teeps74 (3 Sep 2008)

I do not know if I should laugh or cry.

KAF, should be a 24/7 operation (just like the war). 

But, alas, a few here can remember closing down Bihac, to get to VK... Only to discover this very double standard we see currently propagated today (I doubt theatre of operations would change things). There are those who get comfortable in their 8-4 jobs, and bring those jobs with them overseas... There are those that live in the real world.

Is there something wrong with the way we were brought up now, that we think we are entitled to our entitlements? When the boys come back through the wire for 48 hours, then if they need to draw money at 0700, so they can make their purchases at the PX before mounting up at 1000hrs on Sun, Mon whenever, then whoever decides it is not worth it to fill that need needs to re-examine this whole service and being in uniform thing. I do not care if that troop needs a Maxim magazine... Someone should be able to help him/her with the adm to make things work.

Oh, and why is it that every desk jocky in KAF regardless of rank has a pistol? (Or at least had while I was there...)


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## Franko (3 Sep 2008)

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> Oh, and why is it that every desk jocky in KAF regardless of rank has a pistol? (Or at least had while I was there...)



Last time I was there pistols were being clawed back from these people and they were forced to carry C7/C8....regardless of rank.

Unless you required it, and it had to be substantiated, you didn't get one...period. If you were out the wire you automatically got one.

Regards


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## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2008)

I'll never forget my PSO Basic course before my tour, and the briefing we got on FS Points, Hazard/Risk allowances, etc.

There was an IntOp in the room, great guy and ex-cbt arms who didn't forget his roots. The clerk giving the brief outlined the levels for Kandahar deployments, so this un-named IntOp raised his hand and asked, "So what you're saying, is that people living in KAF get the same hardship and risk bonus as those people living in FOBs or Strongpoints?"

The clerk looked at him with almost frustration and disgust and replied, "Well of course they do, is there something wrong with that?"

Various chuckles could be heard in the room, and about 6 people said "Hell yeah."

But hey, Burger King and Green Bean is definately as hard as only 2 fresh meals a day and being lockdown in quarters over certain times for fear of the daily rocket. That being said, there are a lot of the NSE types in KAF who do a great job, especially the NSE Truckers and FP guys/girls who run daily convoys through bad areas to bring out supplies. Its just that old analogy, that a few bad apples spoils it for the bunch.


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> ............. That being said, there are a lot of the NSE types in KAF who do a great job, especially the NSE Truckers and FP guys/girls who run daily convoys through bad areas to bring out supplies. Its just that old analogy, that a few bad apples spoils it for the bunch.



All very good points.  This ending statement is the one we all forget so often.


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2008)

Getting back to the original article, is there any doubt after reading the comments following it, that the Media may not be getting the whole story back to Canadians, unless they get embedded with the troops outside the wire?  

This is a comment from a Brian H, posted soon after the original article hit the CBC site:



> Cute story.
> 
> Now that you're settled in, how about some coverage of the PRT, or medical outreach, or the CIMIC teams? You know, the important issues? The things we're there to do? The media as a whole has been terribly negligent on these subjects.
> 
> It's hard for Canadians to be informed about Afghanistan when stories like this and stories about ramp ceremonies are all they have to go on.



He takes the reporter to task to send back reports that are more than mere "puff pieces".


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## Edward Campbell (3 Sep 2008)

But for the media:

1. If it bleeds, it leads; and

2. Controversy sells papers and, therefore, pleases the all importrant advertisers. Reporting on dull, dry facts is unlikely to ensure a long, glorious and highly paid career in the media.


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2008)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> 2. ............ Reporting on dull, dry facts is unlikely to ensure a long, glorious and highly paid career in the media.



So.  Sitting in the safety of KAF fills that criteria, if the reporter doesn't plan on a long career in the media.  

Therefore, "Embedding" should be the answer if they want a long career as a journalist.


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## Old Sweat (3 Sep 2008)

The story that started this thread was actually about the increased level of amenities that the reporter had noticed when he returned for a third tour. CSA 105 rightly pointed out how this could lead to a we/they attitude and off we went to the races. Now we are back flogging one of our favorite dead horses - the media.

While I don't see the purpose of the original piece, other than as a blog, it did provoke some spirited comments from a cross section of the military community, and a few digs at Wes for good measure. The we/they gap is a constant of military life and is not something we are going to change anytime soon. The garrison mentality is a very human characteristic, as is the attempt to establish routine and enforce standards of dress. I recently interviewed an officer from 2 RCHA who said she had got yelled at for walking around without her hat on during one of her rare visits to KAF from an austere gun position.

Remember for all the jerks that seem to live to annoy the guys and gals outside the wire, there are any number who toil away doing their best to support them despite a support system that in my opinion is/was ill-conceived and not all that responsive.


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## Edward Campbell (3 Sep 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> So.  Sitting in the safety of KAF fills that criteria, if the reporter doesn't plan on a long career in the media.
> 
> Therefore, "Embedding" should be the answer if they want a long career as a journalist.



And some (Blatchford comes immediately to mind but she's not alone) have done that. But many others (most?) make 'flying' visits to KAF where they are briefed and shown about etc but they stay within the wire or go to visit Kandahar City. Those (of the latter group) who do visit a FOB go on escorted _'flyins'_.

I'm guessing that it is expensive for media outlets to embed reporters with the battle group. I believe the CF imposes some conditions re e.g. minimum length of stay and I suspect hat liability (insurance) can be an issue for some media outlets - never mind the fact that some journalists, having read Blatchford's (in)famous pieces about farts in the face in the back of the LAV and life in the field, have no desire to go!


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## aesop081 (3 Sep 2008)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> But hey, Burger King and Green Bean is definately as hard as only 2 fresh meals a day and being lockdown in quarters over certain times for fear of the daily rocket.



You know, we all picked our trades at the CFRC. We all have an oportunity to apply for an OT.

Have a great day


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## deh (3 Sep 2008)

Recce By Death said:
			
		

> Last time I was there pistols were being clawed back from these people and they were forced to carry C7/C8....regardless of rank.
> 
> Unless you required it, and it had to be substantiated, you didn't get one...period. If you were out the wire you automatically got one.
> 
> Regards



On Roto IV at the PRT FP Coy they clawed them back from anyone under the rank of MCpl.  You can't imagine what it did to morale when we got lectures from a clerk wearing a pistol and my driver and gunner are stuck with C7's in a nyala.  I am not saying that clerks don't deserve them, just not at the expense of my driver.  Whether it was right or wrong, the decision still has a substantial effect on morale.  It took almost two weeks to start laughing about it.  What a disaster, the same thing happened to C8's for the reservist platoon.

On the upside when we rolled in to get our vehicle repaired and upgraded i have never been treated better than by the EW/ECM cats.  Fed us all their goodies and let us relax and catch a nap on their couch.  Even let us watch their soft-core eastern european music video porn on the satellite.  I felt like a super star.

I do think more needs to be done to drive home the point that the "support" in support trades is supporting the combat arms types.  Not that i think anyone thinks differently but i do n't think we are always reading off the same page about what that support entails. I am sure they have the same problem but i think more of the marine "Every marine a rifleman" mentality might help.  There is no reason I can see why the support trades shouldn't go out on supply runs as a trunk monkey or stand a post, time and schedules permitting.  I am not suggesting they go out in place of the battlegroup types but there are plenty of other important infantry type jobs that we could always use another body for.  I understand they have a job to do as well but i am not asking them to do mine for me, just maybe pitch in a little for their own safety and well being.  I worked my fair share of 12 and 18 hour days as well, with the HLTA disaster, everyone in 12Pl did (I am sure everyone has but i can only speak about my immediate org) i don't think it would have killed anyone to maybe once a week hop up in a tower with one of my boys.  

When we keep clerks in the office, cooks in the kitchen and soldiers in the towers or in the field all the time in isolation from eachother, how can you expect anything but two different cultures to spring up.  What we need is a little cross pollination, if you will.  We will work better as a team if we understand a little bit better what it is eachother does.  I have never seen so many scared sweaty pale people as when i would do the HLTA milk runs around the city, it shouldn't be so obvious how many times you have been off camp.

A little team building i guess might be the answer.  My 2 cents.  I don't expect change.


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## aesop081 (3 Sep 2008)

deh said:
			
		

> What we need is a little cross pollination, if you will.



Thats an awesome idea. But of course we will also start seeing combat arms guys in the OR / warehouse / whatever right ?


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## Franko (3 Sep 2008)

deh said:
			
		

> On Roto IV at the PRT FP Coy they clawed them back from anyone under the rank of MCpl.  You can't imagine what it did to morale when we got lectures from a clerk wearing a pistol and my driver and gunner are stuck with C7's in a nyala.  I am not saying that clerks don't deserve them, just not at the expense of my driver.  Whether it was right or wrong, the decision still has a substantial effect on morale.  It took almost two weeks to start laughing about it.  What a disaster, the same thing happened to C8's for the reservist platoon.



Yeah, they tried that as well with us and we had fought to keep them. Quite successfully too.

I could go into some dirty laundry about that tour, but won't on these means.

Sufficed to say if someone wasn't trying to be a pariah (I'm sure you know who that is) you'd have kept them.

Regards


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## T.I.M. (3 Sep 2008)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> The story that started this thread was actually about the increased level of amenities that the reporter had noticed when he returned for a third tour. CSA 105 rightly pointed out how this could lead to a we/they attitude and off we went to the races. Now we are back flogging one of our favorite dead horses - the media.
> 
> While I don't see the purpose of the original piece, other than as a blog, it did provoke some spirited comments from a cross section of the military community, and a few digs at Wes for good measure. The we/they gap is a constant of military life and is not something we are going to change anytime soon. The garrison mentality is a very human characteristic, as is the attempt to establish routine and enforce standards of dress. I recently interviewed an officer from 2 RCHA who said she had got yelled at for walking around without her hat on during one of her rare visits to KAF from an austere gun position.
> 
> Remember for all the jerks that seem to live to annoy the guys and gals outside the wire, there are any number who toil away doing their best to support them despite a support system that in my opinion is/was ill-conceived and not all that responsive.



I just finished an extremely bad day today, and was going to take it out on this thread by writing an _extremely_ snarky response to those members making smugly superior blanket statements about those on KAF, but then I read this response and thought better of it.  At least some people understand that there are those behind the wire who are doing their best to support those outside it.

And while there are some real pieces of work on KAF it's not like they're any better towards those of us working on camp.  We ALL have to put up with that crap while we're here, except some of us get to leave.


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## deh (3 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Thats an awesome idea. But of course we will also start seeing combat arms guys in the OR / warehouse / whatever right ?



We actually did a lot of the heavy lifting for the tour at least at CNS where we were.  Unloading trucks and light construction tasks, even had guys on kitchen duty occasionally.  Anything handy-manish we generally took care of as our wood butcher was about as overworked as one man could be.  If there was a task i was capable of doing and would help heal the rift, sign me up.  I am very big on respect for other trades and the jobs they are doing.  Ask the SET team, the RCMP or especially the fire fighters or anyone you'd like from my days at the PRT.   I am the english guy with the huge beard.

I think you missed the point of my post though, the fin clerks job is the fin clerks alone and you wouldn't want just anyone doing it as it is highly specialised.  Just like the coy attack is pretty much the combat arms task alone.  The basic soldier skills you learned in basic training are what i am asking everyone to excercise a bit more.  Unless you think that a soldier, sailor or air person after bmq and work-up and what have you is incapable of standing watch with an infantryman present.  Camp defense was our primary task but camp security is everyones responsibility.  I am open to ideas.  Let's make this work.


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## Dissident (3 Sep 2008)

TF1-07

I remember going off on a clerk when she complained that she didn't want to have her BHP taken away because she didn't want to carry a C7 around. I told her I would be happy to carry my C7 if I knew it meant someone at the sharp end would get my sig. Some people...

At Canada house, I saw some guy come in right off of a long ride on a LAV try and buy some Gatorade with some Canadian money. He'd been out to a FOB for a long time and had never been issued American money. The PSP couldn't sell anything to him, so some KAFfite stepped up and paid for the guys drink. It was only two bucks, which is really nothing, but it made the guys day.

One Bison driver rear ended some local driver in the busy streets of Kandahar city. We had to do the investigation (I was not involved) and the driver was beating himself up over it pretty good. Once his interview was done, I gave him an (air conditioned) ride back to his tent and tried to cheer him up as best I could. Made him laugh a bit, maybe he was just being polite. This soldier died the very next day in an IED blast, while driving his Bison.

I have the utmost respect for anyone who does his/her job diligently and goes the extra mile for another soldier. You never know what they have been through or what will happen the next day.


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## Teeps74 (3 Sep 2008)

To keep with the happier trend on this solemn day...

Near the end of my TAV, some desk jockey in Ottawa decided that I was already back in Canada, and so, closed out my pay account (on exactly time, despite numerous emails concerning my extension flying everywhere for more then a month prior). Little ole me, was informed that I am no longer on contract an hour before mounting up to go out to one of the FOBs on a recce.

The happy part is, I had the most wonderful, sincere and helpful clerk MCpl taking care of my file, who was able to work things out so I would have some cash when I left theatre for my lay over. She worked long hours, trying to resolve an issue that did not get resolved finally until a month and a half after I got back home. (I imagine the most trying part of her job was keeping me sane, now that I have been "released" while still in Afghanistan).

Usually, we only remember the bad ones for some reason... But there are several exceptionally good, excellent, and damned caring clerks, sup techs, cooks, maintainers etc etc etc, who go far far out of their way to help whomever they can. I try to forget the loud mouth idiots that take away from the trades, and work very hard to remember all the hard workers who help this way ward soldier and others survive in an otherwise uncaring world.

My time frame was last spring so if the NSE/NCE clerks from that period are reading this, stand up, and take a bow. You have this crusty old, angry WO's eternal thanks. I was difficult, you made me sane.

All the other trades people while I was there, there are so many to remember, but linemen, sup techs, MSE ops, Logs, cooks, and MPs made my job a success which is continuing on today.


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## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You know, we all picked our trades at the CFRC. We all have an oportunity to apply for an OT.
> 
> Have a great day



I don't think that you got my point. I picked my trade, love it to death, especially the field aspect. That being said, the reason for hardship and risk allowances is to compensate people for being under stressful and high-risk circumstances... that is currently not happening IMHO in KAF at this time. There was talk of another HA and risk level being added just for the FOB types/pointy end (and I hope the risk level for the NSE convoy troops), but I did not see anything further on it since I've been home. Seems like a good solution to me.

Have a great day


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## Fusaki (3 Sep 2008)

> There was talk of another HA and risk level being added just for the FOB types/pointy end (and I hope the risk level for the NSE convoy troops), but I did not see anything further on it since I've been home. Seems like a good solution to me.



Provided that it's retroactive. ;D


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## PuckChaser (3 Sep 2008)

deh said:
			
		

> On the upside when we rolled in to get our vehicle repaired and upgraded i have never been treated better than by the EW/ECM cats.  Fed us all their goodies and let us relax and catch a nap on their couch.  Even let us watch their soft-core eastern european music video porn on the satellite.  I felt like a super star.



Thats definately where I was hiding whenever I was in KAF. It was either there, my bunk, or the compound marshalling to leave.  ;D


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## GAP (3 Sep 2008)

CSA 105 said:
			
		

> Good discussion.
> We have people, mostly officers, serving overseas that need that reminder.  More massage parlors and burger joints aren't really hammering that point home.



It wasn't any different 30+ years ago on a different continent/different war/different Armed Force....


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## Thompson_JM (5 Sep 2008)

Truth be told, we in the NSE hated those retards too.....  there was a few WO's and MWO's on camp who really did serve no purpose other then Chair Warmer......  

I recall being Jacked up by the Camp SM because the water pallets at the end of the tent wernt organized tidy enough... 

after the 13 hour convoy I had been on, it was very hard to pretend to care about what he was saying... especially after we told him that we had no idea that this was "our" job living at the end of the tent line....
In any case from my buddy who worked in NSE HQ, he told me more then enough about this specific Sgt Maj to confirm my belief he was only there to collect points....

In any case.... I feel the same way about it as most of the Cbt Arm types did... I preferred the FOB.... KAF life was cushy... but the bullshit on base didnt make it worthwhile.... and you never get used to the smell from the emerald lake.  
I'll take MSG or Spin over KAF any day.  Even PBW was better... it was BS Free.


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## Greymatters (14 Sep 2008)

Well, there are always types like that.  Fortunately there are just as many who work for/with the troops instead of against them...


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