# Letter from Kandahar: Week 18



## punisher_6d (6 Aug 2007)

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=2166

You really need to read the rest of them to get a true taste of the senseless junk the Canadian Army passes off as "news" on their website.


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## Franko (6 Aug 2007)

Holy crap.....



> Monday afternoon the power went out in some tents, mine being one of them. So that means no lights and more concerning, no air conditioning. As I write this they aren't quite sure when it will be back up but I sure hope it is soon.



Cry me a river.         :crybaby:

I won't get into how I know this individual....         :

Regards


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## Blakey (6 Aug 2007)

Recce By Death said:
			
		

> Holy crap.....
> 
> Cry me a river.         :crybaby:
> 
> ...



I don't even go to _that_ site anymore, it has fallen so far short of what the soldiers want to read and watch, it almost makes me mad that I actually took that course (because I wanted to work there and make a difference, alas I was told that there were no out of trade positions for infantry Corporals  : , wouldn't want some perspective there I guess....).

I know the person in question as well, I will not read fluff.


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## punisher_6d (6 Aug 2007)

This is from another letter:

"My luggage had finally arrived (thankfully) so I freshened up and met my tour group, 18 of us and I was the only Canadian. There was a Scot, a Brit, three Kiwis' and the rest were all from Australia – really good bunch of people though.   The next morning we headed to a National Park called Hwange. We went for several game drives and saw lions out in the wild. Yeah!  We also spotted elephant's, zebra's, giraffe's, crocs, warthog's, impala's, kudu's sables, jackal's and buffalo. Three of the Big 5 (lion, elephant, rhinoceros, buffalo, leopard) in one day!"

OMG, who really gives a flying-mother-fook what you are doing on your HLTA!  We want to hear about what our soldiers are doing out in the field in Afghanistan.  Somebody up there in Army PA needs to have their head seriously checked for allowing this crap to be online.


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## Blakey (6 Aug 2007)

Punisher_6D said:
			
		

> OMG, who really gives a flying-mother-fook what you are doing on your HLTA!  We want to hear about what our soldiers are doing out in the field in Afghanistan.  Somebody up there in Army PA needs to have their head seriously checked for allowing this crap to be online.



I agree, here is one of my other responses reference this animal _they_ call *Army News*.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/55649/post-509224.html#msg509224


			
				Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> Speaking from experience (Army News Course Graduate 2005), I have lost some hope for this organization.
> Talk to the soldiers in my unit about Army News and you open yourself to:
> a) Giving them the opportunity to mock you or
> b) See first choice.
> ...


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## RHFC_piper (6 Aug 2007)

I'm a little confused on how all this works...   So, we send military photographers and videographers out with the troops, during battle, and have an entire military sight devoted to their sometimes dangerous work, full of well composed photos with relevant imagery taken from the front lines... But... We don't have people to report on the content of this media, from the front lines, and to be used on a news system designed for the troops (and not just for the troops to mock)?  
No wonder there's such a poor response to Army News.  It's not like the Media isn't there to report on the front lines.... and it's not like there aren't people willing to go forward to tell the stories.
As much as it's good to have some diversity in reporting, showing life in and out of the wire, I rarely ever read anything about outside the wire other than what is written by members here... which is essentially "armature" and  "unsanctioned" reporting.

Why?

What's the deal?


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## Blakey (6 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper, I pretty much agree.

I haven't done anything with "Army News" since spring '06, I known reporters within Army News that have been to Afghanistan on more than one occasion (I'm sure just by browsing their site you can figure out who I'm talking about), but I've never really have noticed any of that, how should I put this, "up front reporting"(?). I have not seen one CF Soldier in still or video *(EDIT: Besides civi stuff)* actively engaging any OMF, hey I could be right out in left field here but, isn't that what the _*soldiers*_ that will have to deploy want to see? (I know most of the troops with 2VP see it somewhat like I do).

Other countries have military news/civil affairs units that do an awesome job of reporting about their contries soldiers from whatever theater of operations, why can't we?

In hindsight, maybe I'm just being a little to hard on them (Army News), it did only stand up in 2002.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Aug 2007)

I only visit the Army News sites periodically, but based on how media, institutional or MSM, work in general, I wonder how much of the editorial approach for all these outlets is driven by the fact that not EVERY CF member in theatre is a combat arms member, and there has to be a reflection of the contribution of the other branches/trades?

I know everyone wants to see the keen, slick, fixed bayonet stuff the bulk of the time, it appears that with the size of the "goat to be fed", so to speak, not every piece is going to be hoo-hah.

Happy to hear from anyone who's involved in feeding said goat (or even anyone who's fed the goat in the recent past) to see if I'm way outta line or not.


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## punisher_6d (6 Aug 2007)

Tony,

This is pure, pure junk reporting.  Someone has to screen this stuff, no?  You'd think they could get a real infantry soldier with some semblance of Grade 4 writing skills to write shiite about the situation outside the wire???

Send me the link once they evolve to this level.  Thanks buds.  ;D


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## RHFC_piper (6 Aug 2007)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> RHFC_piper, I pretty much agree.
> 
> I haven't done anything with "Army News" since spring '06, I known reporters within Army News that have been to Afghanistan on more than one occasion (I'm sure just by browsing their site you can figure out who I'm talking about), but I've never really have noticed any of that, how should I put this, "up front reporting"(?). I have not seen one CF Soldier in still or video *(EDIT: Besides civi stuff)* actively engaging any OMF, hey I could be right out in left field here but, isn't that what the _*soldiers*_ that will have to deploy want to see? (I know most of the troops with 2VP see it somewhat like I do).
> 
> ...



Keep in mind that Combat Camera does go out with the troops... into some fights (at least the ones they get caught in) and they come back with some great footage and stills... But then they go right into an archive, with a little blurb and no real story.    Why aren't these pics and videos being used to tell a bigger story?  Why isn't a combat camera image tech being paired up with a willing reporter out in the field?  
I agree with the previously posted assessment of Army News to an extent; No one really watches it, 'cause it doesn't speak to a wide audience....  The note about "who cares what reservists do?"... well, reservists do, but we don't get Army news fed into our mess, or at our gyms... Cause we don't live on base... so it's kinda pointless.  And those are the only times I've seen an Army News broadcast; in the mess or in the lobby of the Gym on base...  And the reports are usually months old.



			
				milnewstbay said:
			
		

> I only visit the Army News sites periodically, but based on how media, institutional or MSM, work in general, I wonder how much of the editorial approach for all these outlets is driven by the fact that not EVERY CF member in theatre is a combat arms member, and there has to be a reflection of the contribution of the other branches/trades?
> 
> I know everyone wants to see the keen, slick, fixed bayonet stuff the bulk of the time, it appears that with the size of the "goat to be fed", so to speak, not every piece is going to be hoo-hah.
> 
> Happy to hear from anyone who's involved in feeding said goat (or even anyone who's fed the goat in the recent past) to see if I'm way outta line or not.



I agree with this to an extent as well, but keep in mind that not every CF member in theater is a support trade either, and its not all support and battle group... what about stories from OMLT, or PRT or CIMIC.   

Consider the stories which have been done;
Battle group; Synopsis - I live in a FOB and do patrols... we get shot at a lot
NSE / NCE; Synopsis -  I live in KAF and its hot... but we have Timmies...  rockets suck.
PRT/CIMIC; Synopsis - I live in the middle of a huge city with hundreds of thousands of people who need help and support... every day is an adventure, and although this is the stuff people back home should know about, since this is why were here, the MSM would rather report death (sensationalism) and government media would rather report about Tim Hortons and the new Canada house. 
OMLT; Synopsis - We're training the future of this mission... As much as Canada wants us to leave, they don't know how... We're how... and like PRT/CIMIC, this is what people should know.

Of all the stories I read on MSM every day, the majority are about the first 2... There's so much more to tell over there and they're concentrating on some guy's tour in KAF... If I wanted to read about someones exp in KAF, there are about a million Blogs on BlogSpot, updated daily about the same crap... Seriously... go look for yourself.   At least then you can confirm that they actually did have a black out, and some were unfortunate enough to go without AC for a few hours. Meanwhile, I'll continue searching for some good stories about PRT, CIMIC and OMLT... as well as some stories from the front, as they can be used for lessons learned if nothing else.

Army News is a great idea, but they need to set some priorities.  If the MSM isn't going to report fairly on what we're accomplishing over there, then Army News should pick up the slack and show the reality of the mission.

And as was said, it could be as simple as finding a "grunt" on the line, or a PRT/CIMIC/OMLT member, handing them a video/still camera and let them Blog their tour... hell.. half of them are doing it anyway.  Lots of resources available.


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## Blakey (6 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> The note about "who cares what reservists do?"... well, reservists do, but we don't get Army news fed into our mess, or at our gyms... Cause we don't live on base... so it's kinda pointless.  And those are the only times I've seen an Army News broadcast; in the mess or in the lobby of the Gym on base...  And the reports are usually months old.



Agreed, things might have very well changed since I last scanned the masses about the Army News TV in our lines, (reservists are now more common place within regular force Bn's as well as on operations). 

So, it very well be now, that regular force Inf types are more concerned with the state of LFRR and training, seeing as they have a vested interest (plenty of reserve force folks on tour).

Ref the TV thing, not sure if they still do it but, usually they sent out DVD's to the respective Reserve Bde's, for distribution to subunits.


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## The Bread Guy (6 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> .... it could be as simple as finding a "grunt" on the line, or a PRT/CIMIC/OMLT member, handing them a video/still camera and let them Blog their tour... hell.. half of them are doing it anyway.  Lots of resources available.



That's a pretty bang-on idea - civvy documentary producers are doing it, so no reason (that fat, civvy me can think of) not to give it at least a try.  "Helmet Cam for a Day" anyone?


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## RHFC_piper (6 Aug 2007)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> Agreed, things might have very well changed since I last scanned the masses about the Army News TV in our lines, (reservists are now more common place within regular force Bn's as well as on operations).
> 
> So, it very well be now, that regular force Inf types are more concerned with the state of LFRR and training, seeing as they have a vested interest (plenty of reserve force folks on tour).
> 
> Ref the TV thing, not sure if they still do it but, usually they sent out DVD's to the respective Reserve Bde's, for distribution to subunits.



As much as reservists are working on base for deployment, I have to admit, when I was on base, I couldn't have cared less what was going on at my home unit.  I was too focused on the task at hand.  Besides, the few reports I did see which could have possibly affected my unit were so old that they had lost all relevance.  But, as much as I was focused, I did check in every once in a while.

About the DVD's; Never see 'em.   We get the standard budgie cage liner rags which are pumped out more than ammo (Maple leaf, etc.), and thats about it.



			
				milnewstbay said:
			
		

> That's a pretty bang-on idea - civvy documentary producers are doing it, so no reason (that fat, civvy me can think of) not to give it at least a try.  "Helmet Cam for a Day" anyone?



Like I said, the resources are out there;  In my platoon alone there were 2 guys with helmet cams.  besides everyones Digital cams.  With enough incentive, any young pte/cpl would be more than happy to report what really happens outside the wire.  All they have to do is pass it back with a convoy, and let the editors pick away at it... kinda like the way media works anyway.  Just let the troops blog through an Army run site and voila, instant front line reports with maximum supervision for OPSEC and PERSEC.  


****  All these Ideas and I'll still be a Cpl forever ****


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## Blakey (6 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Like I said, the resources are out there;  In my platoon alone there were 2 guys with helmet cams.  besides everyones Digital cams.  With enough incentive, any young pte/cpl would be more than happy to report what really happens outside the wire.  All they have to do is pass it back with a convoy, and let the editors pick away at it... kinda like the way media works anyway.  Just let the troops blog through an Army run site and voila, instant front line reports with maximum supervision for OPSEC and PERSEC.
> 
> 
> ****  All these Ideas and I'll still be a Cpl forever ****



Something along the lines of 
The War Tapes (Preview) ?



> Straight from the front lines in Iraq, THE WAR TAPES is the first war movie filmed by soldiers themselves. These soldiers bypassed Pentagon supervised media to share their experience like never before. Funnier, spicier, and more gut wrenching than news reports, this is Operation Iraqi Freedom as filmed by Sergeant Steve Pink, Sergeant Zack Bazzi and Specialist Mike Moriarty. Steve is a wisecracking carpenter who aspires to be a writer. Zack is a Lebanese-American university student who loves to travel and is fluent in Arabic. Mike is a father who seeks honor and redemption. Each leaves a woman behind - a girlfriend, a mother and a wife. Through their candid footage, these men open their hearts and take us on an unforgettable journey, capturing camaraderie and humor along with the brutal and terrifying experiences they face. These soldiers got the story that 2,700 embedded reporters never could.


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## punisher_6d (6 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Like I said, the resources are out there;  In my platoon alone there were 2 guys with helmet cams.  besides everyones Digital cams.  With enough incentive, any young pte/cpl would be more than happy to report what really happens outside the wire.  All they have to do is pass it back with a convoy, and let the editors pick away at it... kinda like the way media works anyway.  Just let the troops blog through an Army run site and voila, instant front line reports with maximum supervision for OPSEC and PERSEC.



How true.  There are some very talented and budding journalists out there.  The military Public Affairs simply has to tap into this resource.  In many cases the story writing and photography simply blows away any Regular Force contribution.  There's a military guy on CBC, Russell Storring who writes rather well.  Why doesn't the Army tap into this rich and valuable resource?  Somebody up there is not thinking.


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## Dissident (7 Aug 2007)

#1



			
				Recce By Death said:
			
		

> Holy crap.....
> 
> Cry me a river.         :crybaby:
> 
> ...



I do not appreciate that tone. Maybe her blog entry was not really exciting and didn't bring what you would like to read to the table, but that can not justify your response. If you know her personaly, you should know that she is accutely aware that her living condition in KAF, even without air conditioning, are nothing to really complain about. She wasn't whinning and didn't dwel on it. 

She might not be a door crasher and might not have plenty of cool stories to share. Maybe her story shouldn't be on an official news website. But how many times have we said on this site that we are not winning the war at home, because we are not connecting with people at home and communicating what we are doing here? Her story might not resonate with you, but it might resonate with others.

Sure, it seems like thats all we are putting out there, along with body counts. But that brings me to my second point:

From the perspective of someone who wrote something and tried to get it approved for distribution (you can find it somewhere on this site) it is really a frustrating process.

Not for the reasons you would think. The PAffO was great, he had a few changes to sanitize further my text, but left it mostly unchanged. 

But by the time it got to him, I had done a lot of self censoring. Then I showed an early version to my chain of command, who ended up having serious issues with it and their perceived views on my understanding of ROEs and of my understanding of the training.

And my little story was really all about a non event. It was just a ride as an air sentry where NOTHING happened. I can imagine what a troop would go through, if he tried to share officially his experience when he got caught in a TiC and actually had to return fire.

I'm sure there are plenty of eager door kickers with amazing writting abilities, just itching to share their experiences. But why would they bother? It is much more trouble than its worth and probably liable to get you charged. I know I am not interested in repeating the process. Why open yourself up too such scrutiny?

And Punisher, care to fill in your profile a bit? Just asking.

Edited for PERSEC, no names, please.


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## RHFC_piper (7 Aug 2007)

Dissident said:
			
		

> She might not be a door crasher and might not have plenty of cool stories to share. Maybe her story shouldn't be on an official news website. But how many times have we said on this site that we are not winning the war at home, because we are not connecting with people at home and communicating what we are doing here? Her story might not resonate with you, but it might resonate with others.



I agree that, perhaps, the first response was a little much, and I agree that the original author is entitled to tell what ever story she wants, but as I've posted before; everyone in KAF has a Blog which reads the same (I know not everyone does... its just an exaggeration, but there are a lot)... and why? It may have something to do with time, equipment (computers), etc. Either way, there's already a lot coming out of KAF and it's usually all the same.  There have been some stories coming out of KAF which were fairly unique (eg. from the roll 3 MMU), but most of the interesting rolls have little time to write about them.  
My point is; there are other things going on in Afghanistan besides the KAF and the Battlegroup.  And if we really want to win the info war with Canadians, we might want to promote stories about the changes we are making...
As much as people can connect with living in KAF, it might be more helpful to the cause to help them connect with people who deal with the locals directly in affecting change.




			
				Dissident said:
			
		

> Sure, it seems like thats all we are putting out there, along with body counts. But that brings me to my second point:
> 
> From the perspective of someone who wrote something and tried to get it approved for distribution (you can find it somewhere on this site) it is really a frustrating process.
> 
> ...



I didn't have much troubles writing a piece about my experience during Op Medusa, or the Friendly Fire incident the next day... and the piece was cleared and is now being published.
It's not _that_ hard, you just have to play by all the rules.



			
				Dissident said:
			
		

> I'm sure there are plenty of eager door kickers with amazing writting abilities, just itching to share their experiences. But why would they bother? It is much more trouble than its worth and probably liable to get you charged. I know I am not interested in repeating the process. Why open yourself up too such scrutiny?



If a combat soldier believes their story is worth writing, can follow the rules (OpSec and PerSec) and are willing to stay in their lanes, then there should be no problem.

I've read your piece, I've even suggest soldiers from my unit read it as well (lessons learned) and it is a very good piece... I can even understand why some could have problems with it, but not so much that it couldn't go to print.
It's not a huge fight to get thing in print, there are many avenues and as I've said; as long as you play by all the rules, you can publish your story. (eg. Dr. Patterson's piece, and soon to be published "outside the wire" which is a collection of stories from soldiers.)

Consider this; as I've stated in other posts on this tread, If the CF/DND set up the resources for soldiers to write and report from the field, they would... Build it, and they will come.

Edited quote for PERSEC


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## observor 69 (7 Aug 2007)

RHFC Piper I don't know where your future lies in the working world but I have frequently thought as I read your comments that you are one of those people who can write.  Unlike many of us who struggle to bring our thoughts to paper your pieces stand out in their clarity and skill at writing.
Just something I thought you'd like to know.


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## The Bread Guy (7 Aug 2007)

Cataract Kid said:
			
		

> Something along the lines of  The War Tapes (Preview) ?



Just got my copy today, so I can't vouch for the piece as a whole yet, but that was EXACTLY the concept I was thinking of - helmet- and rifle-cams all about, with technical and (only where needed) wordsmithing experts (although I have to agree with others here that with some of the talent out there, this should be minimal) honing a final product.


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## punisher_6d (7 Aug 2007)

Dissident,

This is truly bad journalism.  Let's call a spade a spade and leave it at that, OK?


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## Franko (7 Aug 2007)

Dissident said:
			
		

> I do not appreciate that tone. Maybe her blog entry was not really exciting and didn't bring what you would like to read to the table, but that can not justify your response.



Why not? Do you really think that anyone cares about the fact that she has to go without AC while the troops are out in the FOBs without a shower for days on end. It's a bullshyte article and she's bellyaching for something that most troops didn't see in theater at all. It's called a nicety, not a must have.



> If you know her personaly, you should know that she is accutely aware that her living condition in KAF, even without air conditioning, are nothing to really complain about. She wasn't whinning and didn't dwel on it.



Yes she was plain and simple. "Poor me toughing it out here in KAF" syndrome. 

As other here have alluded to, there are many other blogs by similar types crying a river over such meaningless things and I, for one, am tired of hearing about it. 

Yes I know her....and her complaints didn't surprise me in the least.

Regards


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## RHFC_piper (7 Aug 2007)

Read this today while sitting in the 32 HSC Det London, waiting for paperwork.

You want good reporting, read this issue.
Maple Leaf

Covers all the bases; PRT, OMLT, NSE, and battle group... as well as some other good stuff.

As much as I knock The Maple Leaf, the articles in this Special issue were a very good read.


I know this is a little off topic, but it seems as though this thread has diverted from "read this" to "Better reporting elsewhere".... so, there it is.


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## punisher_6d (7 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> I know this is a little off topic, but it seems as though this thread has diverted from "read this" to "Better reporting elsewhere".... so, there it is.



I think I started it with "You really need to read the rest of them to get a true taste of the senseless junk the Canadian Army passes off as "news" on their website." .......  :


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## RHFC_piper (7 Aug 2007)

Punisher_6D said:
			
		

> I think I started it with "You really need to read the rest of them to get a true taste of the senseless junk the Canadian Army passes off as "news" on their website." .......  :



My bad... it was really just a combination of "read this" and "better reporting elsewhere", which has evolved into "Hey, here's how to get better stories" and is now "look... I found better stories."


Credit where credit's due.


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## punisher_6d (7 Aug 2007)

Nevva bad, RHFC.  All contributions here are welcome! ..........


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## punisher_6d (9 Aug 2007)

It get's even better:  Letter from Kandahar:  Week 19 .........

"Sunday morning bright and early my friend Lee and I had to go pick garbage up on the north side of the airfield. Normally not a challenging task however, considering the hot, hot temperature, high level of humidity and not a stitch of shade I sight, it was horrible. I went though 5 bottles of water and didn't even feel an urge to pee. We were out there for close to 4 hours! "

It just blows me away how they can pass this off as "news" from Afghanistan?  :


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## Sig_Des (9 Aug 2007)

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=2176

From the website description of the letter's author.



> It seems natural for her to want to be where the action is.



KAF is NOT where the action is...And yes...it's hot...and humid...there was 4 hours of garbage picking.

I'd rather hear about the Vtechs who are hauling out engines out of vehicles....or the guys at the FOBs. Yes, hearing about day to day life at KAF might be OK for a couple letters...but 19 of them is a bit much. I would have rathered they have a different writer each week, a writer in a different location and job.

Like RBD said, KAF has a lot of Nice-to-haves...like showers, AC, a Tims, a Dutch sit-down restaurant....these are not MUST-haves, though...and I don't like hearing people complaining about losing it.

I never was so angry as when I heard someone complaining about a lobster tail at the DFAC in KAF.


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## Roy Harding (9 Aug 2007)

Punisher_6D said:
			
		

> It get's even better:  Letter from Kandahar:  Week 19 .........
> 
> "Sunday morning bright and early my friend Lee and I had to go pick garbage up on the north side of the airfield. Normally not a challenging task however, considering the hot, hot temperature, high level of humidity and not a stitch of shade I sight, it was horrible. I went though 5 bottles of water and didn't even feel an urge to pee. We were out there for close to 4 hours! "
> 
> It just blows me away how they can pass this off as "news" from Afghanistan?  :



I understand where you're coming from - and I agree with your assessment of the "Letters from Kandahar", at least from the perspective of a soldier who's "been there, done that".

HOWEVER (isn't there always a "however") - consider the intended audience.  I don't think these "letters from Kandahar" are meant for the consumption of serving members - I think they are more properly aimed at the average civilian.

I've been retired for three years now, and my last tour was APOLLO Roto 0, so I have an understanding of the climactic conditions prevalent in Kandahar (we spelled it Qandahar - but who cares).  In my three years as a civvie, I have been shocked at how provincial and self-centred my fellow Canadians are.  I can't believe that I spent the majority of my adult life protecting these idiots.

IMHO, the "Letters from Kandahar" series is meant to appeal to the vast majority of Canadians who HAVEN'T been there.  The concept of drinking five litres of water and not having to pee is foreign to most Canadians.  I don't know the author of these Letters, but I think I have a fairly good understanding of what a "princess" she may be - however - I wish her "Letters" were promulgated in the MSM, her audience is NOT serving members of the CF, but the clueless civvies who are the majority of our population.

The only problem I see with the "Letters" series is that they languish on the DND site, where they are read only by serving soldiers, and are not pushed out to the MSM by the Public Affairs folks - I think they'd appeal to many civvies, regardless their lack of relevance to serving (and former) soldiers.

It may be that they ARE published in the MSM somewhere, and I've missed them, but I doubt it.  I'm a fairly well-informed consumer of dailies from across the country.

Bottom line, I guess, is that in my opinion, these "Letters" are not meant to be "news" - they're meant to be "human interest", but our Public Affairs folks haven't pushed them hard enough to get them published anywhere but the DND site.


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## RHFC_piper (9 Aug 2007)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=2176
> KAF is NOT where the action is...And yes...it's hot...and humid...there was 4 hours of garbage picking.



Well... at least not from this perspective.  There are plenty of important things going on in KAF, but those involved (as I've said before) may not be able, or have time to write about it.



			
				Sig_Des said:
			
		

> I'd rather hear about the Vtechs who are hauling out engines out of vehicles....or the guys at the FOBs. Yes, hearing about day to day life at KAF might be OK for a couple letters...but 19 of them is a bit much. I would have rathered they have a different writer each week, a writer in a different location and job.



Reference the issue of Maple Leaf I posted;  There were some great stories in there from NSE and Role 3 MMU.   The NSE report talked about what a day in the life of a V-Tech is like and how they do their jobs over there... Pretty Important job, I might add. especially since the entire battle group rolls on their work.  And the story about the Role 3 MMU was excellent; It discussed the fact that it had the only (or one of the only) CT scanning machine in the Province and  how they have to struggle to help the soldiers and the local civilians.... Awesome story. Should be published publicly.  

There are plenty of stories in KAF to fill 6 months of a blog... Not to mention the other organizations outside the wire.   But you can't blame the author much, she's just writing. 



			
				Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Like RBD said, KAF has a lot of Nice-to-haves...like showers, AC, a Tims, a Dutch sit-down restaurant....these are not MUST-haves, though...and I don't like hearing people complaining about losing it.
> 
> I never was so angry as when I heard someone complaining about a lobster tail at the DFAC in KAF.




Dutch sit down restaurant?  Man... gold...  I want to take my leave in KAF.  All they need is a pool.   I wasn't there long enough to see anything other than Burger king and timies (total 3 days in KAF).


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## Sig_Des (9 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Reference the issue of Maple Leaf I posted;  There were some great stories in there from NSE and Role 3 MMU.   The NSE report talked about what a day in the life of a V-Tech is like and how they do their jobs over there... Pretty Important job, I might add. especially since the entire battle group rolls on their work.  And the story about the Role 3 MMU was excellent; It discussed the fact that it had the only (or one of the only) CT scanning machine in the Province and  how they have to struggle to help the soldiers and the local civilians.... Awesome story. Should be published publicly.



sounds like more interesting reading to me. Have to give it a look.



> Dutch sit down restaurant?  Man... gold...  I want to take my leave in KAF.  All they need is a pool.   I wasn't there long enough to see anything other than Burger king and timies (total 3 days in KAF).



Fairly recent. I think it opened during the 2 RCR Roto. I never went, but the line-ups were huge, and apparently they had real milkshakes...


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## Dissident (9 Aug 2007)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Fairly recent. I think it opened during the 2 RCR Roto. I never went, but the line-ups were huge, and apparently they had real milkshakes...



North side of the boardwalk. Big line up at times and the food always take a while (I guess they make everything fresh). I'm not a fan of the whole decoration theme they have, but at least it doesn't look like another prefab building. Food is generaly good and the prices are very reasonable. Good place to go when you have time to kill with friends.


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## RHFC_piper (9 Aug 2007)

Jeez... If the army wont send me back (which seems like the case...) I think I might go back a CFPSA staff...  KAF is a good go for a war zone...  Hell, its a good go for any kinda zone.

Real milk shakes... man.


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## punisher_6d (10 Aug 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Bottom line, I guess, is that in my opinion, these "Letters" are not meant to be "news" - they're meant to be "human interest", but our Public Affairs folks haven't pushed them hard enough to get them published anywhere but the DND site.



Roy, wake up and smell the cappuccino!  The DND site, and the Army one is a pretty darn popular one on the Internetz.  Gazillions of hits per day.  These kind of articles (19 of them so far) give the general public a view that our troops are busy planning their days with massages, manicures and Pizza Hut visits.  Read all 19 and you'll get a true sense of what I'm talking about.  I might be able to stomach one or two, but 19 with little focus about what goes on outside the wire?  Surely, there are some capable writers out there in the Infantry???  Sadly, they're probably too busy doing the real field work over in Afghanistan to be able to write garbage like this.


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## Roy Harding (10 Aug 2007)

Punisher_6D said:
			
		

> Roy, wake up and smell the cappuccino!  The DND site, and the Army one is a pretty darn popular one on the Internetz.  Gazillions of hits per day.  These kind of articles (19 of them so far) give the general public a view that our troops are busy planning their days with massages, manicures and Pizza Hut visits.  Read all 19 and you'll get a true sense of what I'm talking about.  I might be able to stomach one or two, but 19 with little focus about what goes on outside the wire?  Surely, there are some capable writers out there in the Infantry???  Sadly, they're probably too busy doing the real field work over in Afghanistan to be able to write garbage like this.



I understand what you're saying - but I would differ with your assessment of "who" is hitting the DND and Army sites.  Numbers prove nothing - I'm on those sites every couple of days or so myself.  I really think that folks who hit the DND site are ALREADY cognizant of what the military has done in Afghanistan (or any other place you might like to name).  People (in my uneducated and amateur guess) who go to the DND site are either potential recruits, serving members, or (like me) retired FOGs who like to keep informed - the site does NOT appeal to the "average" Canadian, and exposure there does NOT equate to exposure in the mainstream print media.

I stand by my assertion that these "fluff" pieces need to be placed in the "Lifestyles" pages of major dailies - we are agreed that they do not constitute "news" in any way, shape, or form.

And you're right - those outside the wire are probably too busy to contribute news stories, no matter how talented they may be.


Roy


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## RHFC_piper (10 Aug 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> I understand what you're saying - but I would differ with your assessment of "who" is hitting the DND and Army sites.  Numbers prove nothing - I'm on those sites every couple of days or so myself.  I really think that folks who hit the DND site are ALREADY cognizant of what the military has done in Afghanistan (or any other place you might like to name).  People (in my uneducated and amateur guess) who go to the DND site are either potential recruits, serving members, or (like me) retired FOGs who like to keep informed - the site does NOT appeal to the "average" Canadian, and exposure there does NOT equate to exposure in the mainstream print media.
> 
> I stand by my assertion that these "fluff" pieces need to be placed in the "Lifestyles" pages of major dailies - we are agreed that they do not constitute "news" in any way, shape, or form.
> 
> ...




I'm going to have to agree with Punisher on this one.  I'm sure a lot of curious civilians hit the Forces.ca and DND.ca pages, especially with all the ad campaigns going on everywhere, and all that is in the media.  
But you are right that reports from troops should be published in more public news media, but not this tripe...   It would be interesting to see a regular column in a major (or even local) news paper from troops in the field... and not from PAFFO's or senior officers, but from the common soldier on the ground. It would put a face on the operation, and it would seem less bureaucratic than a report from a government official or senior officer.  (I hate to use the term) Very grass routes.  But of course, all releases would have to pass OpSec and PerSec screening.  

And as for the business of the troops in the field;  They may not have computer access, but a lot of troops still keep journals and find time to write letters.  A friend of mine wrote in his journal everyday, even when we were in the midst of Op Medusa... unfortunately, his journal was destroyed when his sections LAV was blown up in Panjwayi... but he started another one shortly after.
The point is, there is a lot of "down time" outside the wire (for the most part), enough to write something.  And these writings could easily be past back through the supply and mail routes to KAF and then back to Canada for editing, revisions and publication.  Of course, this would mean the soldier who wrote the piece would have to accept the edits to his work without seeing the end copy if it were to be published as it happened (which could also be an issue, but that's what editors are for.)

Anyway, in summation; Soldiers stories should be published... but...  These ones just don't do the mission justice.


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## Roy Harding (10 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> I'm going to have to agree with Punisher on this one.  I'm sure a lot of curious civilians hit the Forces.ca and DND.ca pages, especially with all the ad campaigns going on everywhere, and all that is in the media.



I hear ya, RHFC_Piper - but I disagree regarding who is "hitting" the DND site.  Neither one of us has empirical evidence to support our point of view (unless YOU do - I certainly don't), so I'm happy to "agree to disagree" on that point.



			
				RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> But you are right that reports from troops should be published in more public news media, but not this tripe...   It would be interesting to see a regular column in a major (or even local) news paper from troops in the field... and not from PAFFO's or senior officers, but from the common soldier on the ground. It would put a face on the operation, and it would seem less bureaucratic than a report from a government official or senior officer.  (I hate to use the term) Very grass routes.  But of course, all releases would have to pass OpSec and PerSec screening.



To be honest, I enjoyed Christie Blatchford's columns when she was there.  I've also been following Don Martin's columns (he just left a couple of days ago) - but these two are professional writers, from whom one expects a decent product.  I agree that "grass roots" reports would be great - but for the life of me, I can't figure out how a grunt out in the field would find the time to do a professional job of it on a regular basis.  I recall some blogs in the past (I don't remember by who off the top of my head, but could look them up if you're interested), but they quickly fell off, no reason given on the blogs, but I suspect because of time constraints.



			
				RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> And as for the business of the troops in the field;  They may not have computer access, but a lot of troops still keep journals and find time to write letters.  A friend of mine wrote in his journal everyday, even when we were in the midst of Op Medusa... unfortunately, his journal was destroyed when his sections LAV was blown up in Panjwayi... but he started another one shortly after.
> The point is, there is a lot of "down time" outside the wire (for the most part), enough to write something.  And these writings could easily be past back through the supply and mail routes to KAF and then back to Canada for editing, revisions and publication.  Of course, this would mean the soldier who wrote the piece would have to accept the edits to his work without seeing the end copy if it were to be published as it happened (which could also be an issue, but that's what editors are for.)



You're right about all this.  My wife still has all the letters I wrote to her from Iran in '88/89 (before computers in the field)  - I can't believe the tripe I found time to write, but I'm fairly certain there may have been interest in my observations in that situation, at that time.  The problem is time and accountability.  Troops can't be _expected_ to have time to write a regular feature - perhaps "one offs" may be managed in the way you envisage above.  I know I'd find such articles interesting - but I'm not sure most of our fellow citizens would be as enthralled as you and I.



			
				RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Anyway, in summation; Soldiers stories should be published... but...  These ones just don't do the mission justice.



You're right - these articles DON'T do the mission justice, from the point of view of an "outside the wire" warrior.  They ARE, however, a reflection of things from the point of view of a REMF in Kandahar.  And that's not a bad thing.  My only question (as a former REMF) is how she finds the time to write them - but that's a question best left to the Supt Clk.

To sum up - it is my opinion that these "letters" are NOT a reflection of what troops outside the wire are experiencing - but they could be a useful tool in educating the Canadian public regarding what the support troops are doing - they need to pushed by the PAff folks onto the Lifestyles pages of major dailies.  I DON'T think that links to these "letters" on the DND site constitutes "exposure" in the same way that publication in the MSM print editions would.

FWIW,


Roy


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## RHFC_piper (10 Aug 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> I hear ya, RHFC_Piper - but I disagree regarding who is "hitting" the DND site.  Neither one of us has empirical evidence to support our point of view (unless YOU do - I certainly don't),



That information is available through the server log... at least it would show how many hits the site gets that are not from a DND source... but that's about it.  I have a lot of civilian friends who have wondered on to the DND and Forces site, most likely due to their association with me, but consider how many average civilians have family in the forces, close or extended, or have an interest in what's going on in the forces and/or over seas.  It's not the majority, but it's a lot.  
I agree that it isn't as prevalent a media source as print, TV or general media outlets websites.



			
				Roy Harding said:
			
		

> I'm happy to "agree to disagree" on that point.



I don't agree to that.     J/K.  



			
				Roy Harding said:
			
		

> To be honest, I enjoyed Christie Blatchford's columns when she was there.  I've also been following Don Martin's columns (he just left a couple of days ago) - but these two are professional writers, from whom one expects a decent product.  I agree that "grass roots" reports would be great - but for the life of me, I can't figure out how a grunt out in the field would find the time to do a professional job of it on a regular basis.  I recall some blogs in the past (I don't remember by who off the top of my head, but could look them up if you're interested), but they quickly fell off, no reason given on the blogs, but I suspect because of time constraints.
> 
> You're right about all this.  My wife still has all the letters I wrote to her from Iran in '88/89 (before computers in the field)  - I can't believe the tripe I found time to write, but I'm fairly certain there may have been interest in my observations in that situation, at that time.  The problem is time and accountability.  Troops can't be _expected_ to have time to write a regular feature - perhaps "one offs" may be managed in the way you envisage above.  I know I'd find such articles interesting - but I'm not sure most of our fellow citizens would be as enthralled as you and I.



Keep in mind that a lot of the blogs from overseas were quelled through the CoC due to OpSec and PerSec issues... and even when guidelines were put in place (CANFORGEN 136/06) many troops were advised to discontinue blogging.  

But you are correct; troops in the field can't be burdened with having to produce an article for regular publication, but having pieces wrote by many different soldiers and submitted on a regular basis would just as good, if not better... It would give perspective on all aspects of the mission.



			
				Roy Harding said:
			
		

> You're right - these articles DON'T do the mission justice, from the point of view of an "outside the wire" warrior.  They ARE, however, a reflection of things from the point of view of a REMF in Kandahar.  And that's not a bad thing.  My only question (as a former REMF) is how she finds the time to write them - but that's a question best left to the Supt Clk.



As I've said before; there are a lot of other blogs and articles with all the same crap as these... and as I've said before; there's a lot more going on in KAF besides one soldiers daily accounts of tedium...  I'd rather read about VTECHs, Medics in R 3 MMU, Weapons techs, or even those working in the NCE...  lots more stories to be had.



			
				Roy Harding said:
			
		

> To sum up - it is my opinion that these "letters" are NOT a reflection of what troops outside the wire are experiencing - but they could be a useful tool in educating the Canadian public regarding what the support troops are doing - they need to pushed by the PAff folks onto the Lifestyles pages of major dailies.  I DON'T think that links to these "letters" on the DND site constitutes "exposure" in the same way that publication in the MSM print editions would.



Two issues with that; 1) it's not always about the Battle group... as I've said, there are a lot more elements out there: PRT, OMLT, CIMIC, etc.  2) These reports don't really reflect well on the Support trades in KAF... they don't tell much about their roll and work, and portray them incorrectly.   More complaints about living conditions and less information about what they're actually doing over there make for a misinformation to the public.
Just my thoughts on that.


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## observor 69 (11 Aug 2007)

Ref Christie Blatchford she has been spending her time recently doing this.

http://tinyurl.com/226hjo

As far as I know she is still with the G&M.

The G&M had an article last weekend listing the numerous authors writing books for the Xmas market on Canada/NATO in Afghanistan.


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## pbi (11 Aug 2007)

I certainly have no problem with support folks telling their stories-as we all recognize, without their work there's no mission, whether it's vehicle recovery, stitching up the wounded or getting the troops from the FOBs off on well-deserved HLTA. Of course, these "inside the wire" stories have to be balanced with stories that remind everybody (CF and civ) why we are really there and who is doing the fighting and dying. In that case, it's just a question of editorial judgement.

Which brings me to my second point...



> We had a ramp ceremony for the fallen RCD (Royal Canadian Dragoons) driver, which was a sad event...
> 
> 
> I went to the market to buy some things and saw a guy with a neat straw like hat that folds up.



Putting these comments side by side, almost in the same paragraph, is ludicrous almost beyondf belief. It looks like:

"Some guy died-oh yeah, then we went shopping. Dumm-dee-dumm-dumm. What's for lunch?"

Want to create a bad impression? Keep it up with this kind of combination. Although I'm usually against editorial fiddling, it's badly needed here.

Cheers


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## Franko (11 Aug 2007)

pbi said:
			
		

> I certainly have no problem with support folks telling their stories-as we all recognize, without their work there's no mission, whether it's vehicle recovery, stitching up the wounded or getting the troops from the FOBs off on well-deserved HLTA. Of course, these "inside the wire" stories have to be balanced with stories that remind everybody (CF and civ) why we are really there and who is doing the fighting and dying. In that case, it's just a question of editorial judgement.
> 
> Which brings me to my second point...
> 
> ...



Seeing as I actually knew the guy....that little line pissed me off big time, to the point that I actually had to walk away with my frau asking "What's wrong?"

Told her to read the article. Her reply was "WTF?"

Hence another reason why I can't stand that individual.

Regards


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## punisher_6d (11 Aug 2007)

Recce By Death said:
			
		

> Seeing as I actually knew the guy....that little line pissed me off big time, to the point that I actually had to walk away with my frau asking "What's wrong?"
> 
> Told her to read the article. Her reply was "WTF?"
> 
> ...



I didn't know him but was at his internment in Ottawa.  Truly sad watching his poor, poor mother cry over her son's casket. And then I read this article!  Instead of interspersing combat deaths in a story about shopping at KAF, why not write the entire piece about the raw emotion of attending a ramp ceremony there?  "WTF?" is right-on, Recce.


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## 3rd Herd (11 Aug 2007)

RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> Jeez... If the army wont send me back (which seems like the case...) I think I might go back a CFPSA staff...  KAF is a good go for a war zone...  Hell, its a good go for any kinda zone.
> 
> Real milk shakes... man.


You are at the end of a very long line up.   Including the proposal to deliever pizza's and birthday cakes to the op's and boys out on ops. Another less known aspect of PPCLI history.


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## Roy Harding (12 Aug 2007)

pbi said:
			
		

> I certainly have no problem with support folks telling their stories-as we all recognize, without their work there's no mission, whether it's vehicle recovery, stitching up the wounded or getting the troops from the FOBs off on well-deserved HLTA. Of course, these "inside the wire" stories have to be balanced with stories that remind everybody (CF and civ) why we are really there and who is doing the fighting and dying. In that case, it's just a question of editorial judgement.
> 
> Which brings me to my second point...
> 
> ...



I agree completely with everything you said here.

As this individual's blog is being endorsed and showcased by the CF, shouldn't there be some kind of oversight from the PAff folks?  Surely they are trained to recognize and head-off such lack of editorial judgment.  I also feel that "editorial fiddling" is undesirable - HOWEVER, this is not a "private" blog here - it has been endorsed by the CF and as such _could_ be seen as an official view from the CF.

And just to follow on with other's thoughts - I too would like to read more from the guys out beyond the wire (including the MSE Ops and Sup Techs doing re-supply,the MRT teams and the Cbt Arms guys).  I think they're probably all too busy getting on with the job to devote any time to this type of secondary or tertiary pursuit.

Regardless her lack of editorial panache (which could be fixed with PAff oversight) - I think these "Letters" should be pushed out to the "Lifestyle" pages of major dailies - they aren't "news", but I don't think they're meant to be - but they do have value.


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## visitor (12 Aug 2007)

Hi , I am a civvie and perhaps the intended audience of these letters. My first impression is just that they are bad writing: First I did this, then I did this, then we  had a ramp ceremony. How Sad. Then I did that.  Kids write like that.  Could she have been picked to write because they are devoid of meaningful information, opinion and insight and therefore not apt to stir up any  controversy?  I would love to know what is going on over there, but a bright person can  follow the dots to make inferences, draw conclusions,  etc. Perhap somebody is being  brilliant to post "letters" with absolutely no information about anything meaningful.


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## 3rd Herd (12 Aug 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> And just to follow on with other's thoughts - I too would like to read more from the guys out beyond the wire (including the MSE Ops and Sup Techs doing re-supply,the MRT teams and the Cbt Arms guys).  I think they're probably all too busy getting on with the job to devote any time to this type of secondary or tertiary pursuit.


Roy there are some excellent articles, insightful, and generally well written on the bases. You should remember the old "Lookout" in which some poor devil in every unit was required to come up with a couple of paragraphs for that issue's submission. Now they have colourful pictures, the same bad adds but written work which the mainstream has never gone near as it is written by amateurs.


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## Roy Harding (12 Aug 2007)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> Roy there are some excellent articles, insightful, and generally well written on the bases. You should remember the old "Lookout" in which some poor devil in every unit was required to come up with a couple of paragraphs for that issue's submission. Now they have colourful pictures, the same bad adds but written work which the mainstream has never gone near as it is written by amateurs.



Although I don't recall "The Lookout" specifically (wasn't it a West Coast thing?) I remember other publications well (got "voluntold" to make contributions once or twice myself).  The Maple Leaf and other internal organs continue to fill a need within the service.

But - and I should have been clearer - in my previous posts I am referring to PUBLIC exposure in the MSM, or through "semi-official" blogs such as these "Letters".  In-house publications are wonderful (and could also be hilarious, as I recall), but  by definition they don't get exposure to the general public.

I seem to keep coming back to PAff here, but couldn't those in-house pubs be "mined" for articles suitable to the MSM?  And PUSHED to the major dailies by the PAff folks (perhaps after some _light_ editorial work)?  Maybe I'm asking too much, I am not an expert in media/public relations, or in how to get things published in the MSM - PAff folks are supposed to be  experts in these fields.

I hope someone from PAff will be along here to explain why this isn't feasible, I get the feeling I might be missing some valid reason it can't be done.


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## MG34 (15 Aug 2007)

The 'Letters from Kandahar" series is nothing but tripe,who give's a rat's ass about the daily trials and tribulations of deciding what DFAC to eat at or what someone did on leave. The author and Army News should be emarassed that this crap is being shown as news worthy.


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## George Wallace (15 Aug 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> The 'Letters from Kandahar" series is nothing but tripe,who give's a rat's ass about the daily trials and tribulations of deciding what DFAC to eat at or what someone did on leave.



Somebody's Mom might.    ;D

But you are correct.  Not too many others would be interested in the "puff pieces".


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## Roy Harding (15 Aug 2007)

I agree with both George Wallace and MG34 above.  I've been saying it all along - these belong in the "Lifestyles" section of MSM dailies, they are NOT news.

AND - I think MANY civilians would be interested in the content.  Those who WOULD find these pieces interesting are not those likely to be frequenting the DND or any other military site.  The folks these puff-pieces would (IMO) opinion appeal to are EXACTLY some of those who's "hearts and minds" we (DND) keep saying we need to get onside.

To sum up:  In my opinion, these pieces are NOT NEWS, but DO have a place in the MSM - and need to be PUSHED there by "somebody", I've suggested PAff, with some editorial oversight.


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## punisher_6d (15 Aug 2007)

Roy,

I'll agree with you on using them in a Lifestyle section of a newspaper, but to do that they have to be well-written to be accepted by the MSM.  These kinds of "Letters" likely will not, IMO.  One soldier you might want to look at who has successfully done this is Sgt Russel D. Storing.  You can see his pieces for the CBC here:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_storring/  Another is Cpl Brian Sanders:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_sanders/


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## Roy Harding (15 Aug 2007)

Punisher_6D said:
			
		

> Roy,
> 
> I'll agree with you on using them in a Lifestyle section of a newspaper, but to do that they have to be well-written to be accepted by the MSM.  These kinds of "Letters" likely will not, IMO.  One soldier you might want to look at who has successfully done this is Sgt Russel D. Storing.  You can see his pieces for the CBC here:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_storring/  Another is Cpl Brian Sanders:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_sanders/



It would seem we are in agreement!  Not always an easy thing to do on an internet forum!

I am aware of the two links you provided - I should have brought them into this conversation earlier.  Thanks for doing so.  I also recall regular features (well) written by various soldiers serving in Afg in both the Sun and Canwest papers - but for the life of me I can't remember who the soldiers were, or when they were published.  If you recall those articles, I'd appreciate if you could post links to them here.

I'd be interested to know how many hits those two CBC sites get - it isn't posted.  In fact, I think I'll send an inquiry to the webmaster to see if I can get those stats.  If I do, I'll post them here.

I agree on the "well-written" comment you made - I'm assuming that editorial oversight would assist in overcoming this problem.  Actually - I wonder if Sgt Storing and Cpl Sanders are assisted by either PAff or CBC editorial staff? 

Cheers!


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## punisher_6d (15 Aug 2007)

Here's a recent one courtesy of Canoe:  http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2007/08/11/4410592-sun.html  It's by MCpl Martin Forgues a journalism student and a Reservist.  Well done Martin!  This is an example, I think, of what Canadians want to see.


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## Roy Harding (15 Aug 2007)

Punisher_6D said:
			
		

> Here's a recent one courtesy of Canoe:  http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2007/08/11/4410592-sun.html  It's by MCpl Martin Forgues a journalism student and a Reservist.  Well done Martin!  This is an example, I think, of what Canadians want to see.



Absolutely - that was a well written slice of life - I'm assuming that as a journalism student he has a "leg-up" on the "well-written" part of the equation.

I still feel that there is a place for the "Letters from Kandahar", as well.


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