# How can my friend appeal a decision ?



## krimynal (20 Dec 2016)

I'm trying to help out a friend here , but I honestly don't have any idea on what to tell him.... 

Basically he is currently on course with me ( waiting for our 3s ) but his girlfriend is pregnant and she will give birth in January ( supposedly on the 17Th )

Thing is , there is a course that start on the 17Th of January for our trade.  

What he was suppose to get was , to be sent on the next course starting on July , so he could be back with his spouse and the new baby.  Everything was set and done for that , except this morning , wing commander decider to refuse that , and told him he needed to be on the January class because there was some spots left to fill. 

Trust me he was VERY mad , but he is completely lost and don't know how to appeal the decision , or how to have a second opinion.  This is the 1st baby , spouse is over in Quebec while he is in Borden , she has no drivers license , so if anything happens , he won't be there to help her out.  

What do you think would be the best route for him ??? 

Thanks


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## McG (20 Dec 2016)

He can submit a grievance if he wants.  You probably will not find much sympathy though.  Lots of guys have missed the birth of children for various reasons related to service.  

Deferring a QL3 for seven months is like granting seven months of free pay, because you can't start doing your job until you get through that training.  Maybe he wants to consider PATA leave instead.  I don't know all the rules around that and there may be restrictions for pers who are not yet qualified in an occupation.  But, with a few exceptions, PATA is now an entitlement.


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## krimynal (20 Dec 2016)

He was approved for PATA , he was supposed to be sent on PATA starting January , until July , so he could comeback and do the course. 

But now they refused the PATA , told him he needed to be here for the course and that he "SHOULD" be able to get on PATA AFTER the course .... it's not even sure he will be , since after the course he gets posted and then it's a different ball game


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## PuckChaser (20 Dec 2016)

QR&O 16.27 Para (8)



> (8) (Military Requirements) A commanding officer may defer the start date of the period of parental leave if there are military imperative requirements.



QR&O 16.27 Para (7)



> (7) (Limitation) A period of parental leave
> 
> extended under subparagraph 6(a) or 6(b) shall end no later than 52 weeks after the day on which the officer or non-commissioned member first becomes entitled to parental leave under paragraph (3); or
> extended under subparagraph 6(c) or deferred under paragraph (8) shall end no later than 104 weeks after the day on which the officer or non-commissioned member first becomes entitled to parental leave under paragraph (3).



http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-16.page
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5001-2.page

If the Wing Comd is using imperative military requirements clause for the course loading, then your friend still has an entitlement to up to 37 weeks of PATA once he gets to his posting. If he's on course and something happens, then he's going to have to request compassionate leave/RTU to sort the situation out.

MCG is right, there likely won't be much sympathy. A solid family care plan (family, friends) will mitigate his worries.


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## krimynal (20 Dec 2016)

alright .... 

I just find it very stupid because he WAS approved for PATA , everything was set and done , then this morning , he comes up that everything is cancelled ....


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## SupersonicMax (20 Dec 2016)

A CO can refuse PATA for "imperative military requirements".  See QR&O 16.27.  The leave manual defines IMR as, but not limited to:

participating in an operational deployment or major military exercise;
participating in an unforecasted tasking;
attending a career course;
attending a court martial; or
posting or attached posting (including any action related to it, such as HHT, out-clearances, travelling time, Special Leave (Relocation))

Your friend would have a hard time fighting this.


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