# Tiger Williams charged by MP's.



## X Royal (10 Feb 2018)

I'm amazed this topic hasn't been mentioned yet.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/apos-tiger-apos-williams-charged-202104477.html


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## dapaterson (10 Feb 2018)

A man claiming to be Williams' lawyer has posted a media release: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jckznfiyt5374w5/MEDIA%20RELEASE%20ON%20BEHALF%20OF%20DAVE.pdf?dl=0


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## X Royal (10 Feb 2018)

Standard response from a lawyer and yes he is correct that Tiger Woods should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.


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## dapaterson (10 Feb 2018)

X Royal said:
			
		

> Standard response from a lawyer and yes he is correct that Tiger Woods should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.



And so should Tiger Williams


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## X Royal (10 Feb 2018)

OK you caught that slip-up.
Yes Tiger Williams should be considered innocent until proven guilty. 
Time to crash for the night.


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## dimsum (10 Feb 2018)

X Royal said:
			
		

> Standard response from a lawyer and yes he is correct that Tiger Woods should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.



Ha!  Saw this after work with some friends, and at least half thought it was Tiger Woods, not Williams.  One guy was really confused as to why Woods was on a Team Canada flight.


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## Old Sweat (19 Feb 2018)

In the bad, old days alcohol could be served on certain flights (I was on a couple) but the main pax were very senior adults (not only Canadian) and it did not get out of hand. This story from the Toronto Star seems to indicate that common sense and discipline missed some more recent flights. Based on what I saw on other flights, I am gobsmacked, although I saw one passenger lose control, but he was handled politely and firmly and all soon was well.

This story is posted under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Military insiders– unhappy with the behaviour seen on VIP flights to visit troops overseas -- are asking questions and demanding changes. Sorry for the length.


By BRUCE CAMPION-SMITHOttawa Bureau
Mon., Feb. 19, 2018
OTTAWA—“Party Bus” and “Mardi Gras at 35,000 feet” are a couple of the nicknames given to the military Airbus flights that fly entertainers, musicians and media stars overseas for morale-raising visits with deployed soldiers.

New questions are being raised about the booze-fuelled VIP trips and the oversight of senior commanders.

Former Maple Leafs player Dave “Tiger” Williams was charged with assault and sexual assault this month after a goodwill trip last December for alleged incidents involving a female flight attendant. On that same trip, two passengers wet themselves and several complaints were made over inappropriate behaviour.

Military insiders, unhappy with the behaviour seen on these tours, are asking questions and demanding changes.

Why was a passenger allowed to bring a 40-ounce bottle of alcohol on board the military jet in Ottawa for the December flight when travellers are forbidden from carrying liquids on commercial flights? Military flights depart from the Canada Reception Centre, but passengers typically still have to go through security screening.
Why were passengers allowed to chew tobacco in the cabin when regular soldiers returning from tours of duty abroad are disciplined for the same behaviour? In this case, flight attendants were expressly told not to stop the passengers from chewing tobacco. Beer cans used for tobacco spit were left “all over the plane.”
“That’s hypocritical beyond words,” one source said.

Why were several apparently inebriated passengers allowed to board in Ottawa on Dec. 2, when airlines typically ban intoxicated travellers from boarding their flights?
Senior commanders have yet to speak about the December trip and military spokespersons have been guarded in their comments so far, citing the criminal charges against Williams and an ongoing internal investigation.

But military and defence department sources, talking to the Star on the condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak publicly and because they fear retribution, are speaking out about these Team Canada trips.

They paint a picture of overseas flights that feature heavy drinking and a disregard for military rules and even the aviation regulations that govern passengers who fly commercial flights. “Flight attendants were told last October that on VIP flights, passengers get whatever they want, rules do not apply,” one source said.

While the December trip is in the spotlight, sources tell the Star that the tours — run for the past 12 years — have always been known for excessive drinking and a party atmosphere where sometimes passengers pass out or vomit after drinking too much.

Flight attendants who join the Trenton-based squadron that operates the fleet of Airbus aircraft have been told that the Team Canada flights are fun, but they can expect the passengers to be “handsy” and that “they’ll be all over you,” one source said.

Sources say that not all flight attendants who work on these flights have been formally trained to serve alcohol or to recognize the signs of inebriation. And although the flight was not tame, one source told the Star the “vast majority” of passengers were well-behaved.

The military has refused to say who was part of the VIP contingent for the December tour.

Gen. Jonathan Vance, the chief of defence staff, was a last-minute scratch, skipping the trip because of other commitments.

The senior military members on the trip were Lt.-Gen. Alain Parent, the vice-chief of defence staff, and Chief Warrant Officer Kevin West, the most senior non-commissioned member of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Parent and West watched movies and slept during the first leg of the trip to Athens. The military has said that neither became aware of the alleged assault involving Williams until after the trip was over. Also onboard was the civilian defence department employee who works out of Vance’s office to organize these trips.

Insiders question why military leaders travelling with the contingent failed to intervene to curb the drinking given that some passengers were “hammered,” yelling and trying to arm wrestle with the crew while music blared in the background.

“It was like a discotheque in there. The lights were down, there was booze everywhere. It was absolutely not what you would expect out of a flight, let alone a military one,” said one source familiar with what unfolded.

For this trip, the military Airbus was stocked with beer and wine and, unusually, a supply of hard liquor, including whiskey, rum and vodka.

A military spokesperson has said the liquor for the Team Canada flights is donated. But if the alcohol runs out during the trip, it gets restocked at taxpayer expense.

In the wake of the December trip, the military has put plans for a March goodwill trip on hold, in part because it’s having trouble finding VIPs to take part.

The military says it’s also now reviewing its alcohol policy for air force flights. Insiders want the booze cut back and hard liquor off the aircraft.

They say with high-ranking officers and VIP guests on these trips, the flight attendants often feel powerless to crack down on excessive drinking or bad behaviour. They want flight attendants to be empowered to stop serving drinks if a passenger has drunk too much without fear of retribution for “killing the party.”

They say all flight attendants should have the Smart Serve training required in Ontario for everyone who serves alcohol.

In a statement to the Star on Monday, the defence department said the Royal Canadian Air Force is conducting an administrative review into the incident “which will look at our policies and procedures regarding such flights.”

“We are also taking an extensive look at our Team Canada program, for which the next visit has been postponed until further notice,” the statement said.

“As we probe further into the matter to fully grasp every detail of the trip and the sequence of events, we will not comment further. We will allow the judicial and administrative processes to unfold as designed,” it said.


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## OldSolduer (20 Feb 2018)

Smart Serve?

No. How about enforcing the no booze no tobacco rules. 

But that would be “too hard”.

Lead by example.


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## PMedMoe (20 Feb 2018)

How about we scrap the "goodwill" flights completely?  Do they really improve morale?


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## FJAG (20 Feb 2018)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> How about we scrap the "goodwill" flights completely?  Do they really improve morale?



That's what the latest reports are that it might go that way.

Personally I find that's the usual risk averse cop-out that the CF is famous for. One guy acts like a moron so you punish everyone by taking the privilege away. We're all grown ups. We can do better than that. Punish the guilty, not the innocents.

 :cheers:


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## McG (20 Feb 2018)

So, a group of entertainers abused privileges that military personnel don’t get on military flights. Maybe dial it down to what one can get from cattle class on Air Canada.  You board sober, and you can only drink what you buy on the plane (and yes, have all the stewards smart serve qualified).  While you are at it, make that level of service available to the troops too.  I have never been on a CF flight that was not dry.


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## FJAG (20 Feb 2018)

My point exactly. We do business as if every one of our troops was the lowest common denominator. To ensure that one individual doesn't do something stupid, we just forbid everyone from doing activities that are basically legal.  We've created the nanny state for the CADPAT crowd.

If a service flight isn't going into an operational theater, why not sell alcohol like a commercial flight? I know. It's administratively more difficult.

 :stirpot:


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## Stoker (20 Feb 2018)

"Parent and West watched movies and slept during the first leg of the trip to Athens. The military has said that neither became aware of the alleged assault involving Williams until after the trip was over. Also onboard was the civilian defence department employee who works out of Vance’s office to organize these trips"

Perhaps they should of said something, I don't buy they were oblivious to the partying.


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## RCDtpr (20 Feb 2018)

Just save the tax payer money and scrap VIP “morale” visits altogether.

I didn’t get to see, meet, play ball hockey etc. with any “famous” people while overseas nor did anyone else from my squadron, or many from the battle group at all for that matter and I don’t think any of us cried ourselves to sleep over it.

Seems to me these “morale” visits are more for the senior leadership than anyone else. 

Want to up morale for deployed troops?  Use every nickel saved to buy us kit that actually works, but I digress.


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## Halifax Tar (20 Feb 2018)

ExRCDcpl said:
			
		

> Just save the tax payer money and scrap VIP “morale” visits altogether.
> 
> I didn’t get to see, meet, play ball hockey etc. with any “famous” people while overseas nor did anyone else from my squadron, or many from the battle group at all for that matter and I don’t think any of us cried ourselves to sleep over it.
> 
> ...



100% agree.  I have seen them twice and both times it was forced fun.  And always seemed second rate to be honest.


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## pbi (20 Feb 2018)

FJAG said:
			
		

> My point exactly. We do business as if every one of our troops was the lowest common denominator. To ensure that one individual doesn't do something stupid, we just forbid everyone from doing activities that are basically legal.  We've created the nanny state for the CADPAT crowd.
> 
> :stirpot:



Your two posts have pointed out something I've always found disappointing and sometimes infuriating about the CAF: one or two clowns FIU because they're stupid or ill-disciplined, so instead of making disciplinary examples of these clowns, the service piles on more rules making everything illegal for everybody, and removing human judgement or discretion.

Take booze for example: it has always, always been a service offence to be under the influence on duty, since the days of KR&Os.  How did we fight WWI, II and Korea without a "dry" army? We did it, I suspect, by dealing with drunkenness on a case-by-case disciplinary basis.

It seems that rather than confront wrong-doers head on, and make examples of them  (regardless of rank), we just pile up a big heap of regulations. Which, by the way, may not always get enforced, either...


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## Lumber (20 Feb 2018)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> 100% agree.  I have seen them twice and both times it was forced fun.  And always seemed second rate to be honest.



I disagree. When Team Canada came to visit us in the gulf of Oman, it was a great refresher. They played music and had stand-up comedy on the flight-deck that was first rate, the speeches by the hockey players and entertainers really made us feel appreciated, and the 2-drink limit was relaxed (slightly) for that night. 

I, for one, highly recommend that they keep this initiative going. Sure, maybe not everyone on a deployed op will get to even see these guys when they show up, but don't take the opportunity away from everyone just because you were station at a different base in theatre.


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## Jarnhamar (20 Feb 2018)

[quote author=Chief Stoker

Perhaps they should of said something, I don't buy they were oblivious to the partying.
[/quote]

Same here. That's some weak CYA right there.


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## Halifax Tar (20 Feb 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I disagree. When Team Canada came to visit us in the gulf of Oman, it was a great refresher. They played music and had stand-up comedy on the flight-deck that was first rate, the speeches by the hockey players and entertainers really made us feel appreciated, and the 2-drink limit was relaxed (slightly) for that night.
> 
> I, for one, highly recommend that they keep this initiative going. Sure, maybe not everyone on a deployed op will get to even see these guys when they show up, but don't take the opportunity away from everyone just because you were station at a different base in theatre.



Fair enough.  

FYI Both times I saw them were on my 2 RCN deployments.  Not my Afghan tours.


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## Furniture (20 Feb 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I disagree. When Team Canada came to visit us in the gulf of Oman, it was a great refresher. They played music and had stand-up comedy on the flight-deck that was first rate, the speeches by the hockey players and entertainers really made us feel appreciated, and the 2-drink limit was relaxed (slightly) for that night.
> 
> I, for one, highly recommend that they keep this initiative going. Sure, maybe not everyone on a deployed op will get to even see these guys when they show up, but don't take the opportunity away from everyone just because you were station at a different base in theatre.



My experience on board from my trips was very different. It was mandatory fun time that prevented people from being able to go ashore and relax in a way of their choosing, or worse forced people on 1in2 to be awake to be "entertained". "Mandatory fun" is one of those two words, and usually not the latter... 

The only example of it on ship that I saw that was handled well in my experience, was from my last trip when we had "Team Canada" come out for the Canada 150 celebrations in Busan, South Korea. It was not mandatory for people to attend, and because we were alongside we were allowed to drink if we wanted. People actually came out in numbers and had a good time, then we all went to bed and sailed the next day without serious incident. We likely would have had just as much fun without "Team Canada" though, as it was Canada Day and we were alongside in Busan. 

The only other example I remember fondly was when the Stanley Cup was brought to KAF back in spring '07 and I happened to be in switching between troops before heading back out.


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## Journeyman (20 Feb 2018)

My morale seldom required second-rate entertainers and has-been athletes; I usually volunteered to take a duty shift to free up someone who was interested.


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## medicineman (20 Feb 2018)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> My morale seldom required second-rate entertainers and has-been athletes; I usually volunteered to take a duty shift to free up someone who was interested.



There were no entertainers on any of my deployments...just political tourists and reporters.  Apparently we were supposed to be entertained by what we saw going on around us and be happy to be in such exotic places at Crown expense  ;D.

MM


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## RCDtpr (20 Feb 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I disagree. When Team Canada came to visit us in the gulf of Oman, it was a great refresher. They played music and had stand-up comedy on the flight-deck that was first rate, the speeches by the hockey players and entertainers really made us feel appreciated, and the 2-drink limit was relaxed (slightly) for that night.
> 
> I, for one, highly recommend that they keep this initiative going. Sure, maybe not everyone on a deployed op will get to even see these guys when they show up, but don't take the opportunity away from everyone just because you were station at a different base in theatre.



Now I know this is going to open a can of worms but I’m going to offer my opinion on this.  Using Afghanistan as an example, the only people who got to benefit from the morale visits were those in KAF, who by battle group standards had a very high quality of life.  It could actually be construed as a morale killer to those who don’t get to watch a concert while drinking their nightly timmies on the boardwalk.

Further, being that we were told we had to take all our patches off etc. in KAF because people there complained they weren’t allowed to wear them and it isn’t fair they didn’t get to do the same as others outside the wire.  Well I argue if not everyone can watch the concert then that’s not fair either and therefore nobody should get to.  

Back on topic though, it’s evident these flights are just another example of the higher ups hypocrisy of “do what I say not what I do.” I don’t believe for one second the VCDS or CWO West weren’t aware what was going on around them on an 8+ hour flight.

Scrap these waste of tax payer money party flights of entertainers nobody has heard of most of the time.


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## Towards_the_gap (20 Feb 2018)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> How about we scrap the "goodwill" flights completely?  Do they really improve morale?



I made much the same point on FB. 12 years between Brit and Canuck armies, and during that time, not once during any number of overseas deployment did the appearance of some C-list, past-their-prime, trotting out offering up lame jokes and the random cheerleader squad courtesy of the USO, improve my morale one iota.

These 'team canada' jaunts seem more to be self-aggrandising back-slapping on both parts, the leadership getting away from their desks and the random 'celebrities' for whom the red carpet is rolled out for. 

Pte. Bloggins just wants new mukluks and better Wi-Fi at his location.


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## jollyjacktar (20 Feb 2018)

WeatherdoG said:
			
		

> The only other example I remember fondly was when the Stanley Cup was brought to KAF back in spring '07 and I happened to be in switching between troops before heading back out.



I was there for that.  I know it made the hockey fans happy.  For myself, l was happy for the BBQ and beer that came with it.


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## CBH99 (20 Feb 2018)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I made much the same point on FB. 12 years between Brit and Canuck armies, and during that time, not once during any number of overseas deployment did the appearance of some C-list, past-their-prime, trotting out offering up lame jokes and the random cheerleader squad courtesy of the USO, improve my morale one iota.
> 
> These 'team canada' jaunts seem more to be self-aggrandising back-slapping on both parts, the leadership getting away from their desks and the random 'celebrities' for whom the red carpet is rolled out for.
> 
> Pte. Bloggins just wants new mukluks and better Wi-Fi at his location.




And cheerleaders.  If we could get some new cheerleaders at our locations, that would be good too.  *sigh*   But better wifi to substitute for cheerleaders works too...  *louder sigh*


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## Eye In The Sky (20 Feb 2018)

This is the story I saw on this.

Article Link

*Peeing in the seats? Military eyes air force alcohol ban after troubled VIP trip*

OTTAWA—It was meant as a pre-Christmas morale booster, a trip by sports stars and senior military personnel to visit Canadian soldiers deployed overseas. 

But the troubles started even before the military Airbus aircraft got off the ground in Ottawa when several of the passengers showed up for the 1 p.m. departure appeared to have already been drinking.

It went downhill from there.

By the time the jet arrived in Athens more than eight hours later, there was an allegation of assault against a former Maples Leafs star and complaints of drunken, boorish behaviour by others, including two people so drunk they wet themselves in their seats. 

As the fallout of the ill-fated December tour continues to ripple, the military has cancelled plans for a March morale visit and is reviewing its policies for alcohol consumption onboard military aircraft.

Past goodwill tours have included entertainers, athletes and media figures who donate their time to visit soldiers overseas. But this most recent tour has left military brass shaking their heads. Gen. Jonathan Vance, the chief of defence staff, is said to be “extremely unhappy.”

“We’ve never seen anything like this,” one astonished defence official told the Star.

The Star has spoken to several defence department officials about what unfolded on the trip. They asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the information and an ongoing internal investigation by the Royal Canadian Air Force.

One of the stars on this tour was Dave “Tiger” Williams, a former Toronto Maple Leafs enforcer and a regular participant on these goodwill visits. The military has refused to identify who else travelled with the contingent. 

The trips are organized by the Strategic Outreach Team, which reports to Vance’s office. Vance has gone on these Team Canada trips in the past but skipped this one because of a scheduling conflict.

Two senior personnel went in his place — Lt.-Gen. Alain Parent, the vice chief of defence staff, and Chief Warrant Officer Kevin West, the most senior non-commissioned member of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Military flights usually have strict policies regarding the consumption of alcohol. But those rules are relaxed when civilians are carried onboard. On Team Canada flights, a small amount of alcohol is provided by the military and participants are also allowed to bring their own for consumption during the trip, which often involves lengthy overseas flights.

That was the case for this most recent tour, which departed Ottawa on Dec. 2, headed first to Athens, Greece to meet up with the crew of the frigate HMCS Charlottetown, then on deployment in the Mediterranean Sea.

But several members of the tour who showed up for the mid-day departure had already been drinking, one source familiar with events told the Star.

“They showed up with their own alcohol and they were already inebriated,” the source said.

Once airborne, there was a “bit of a party going on,” the source said, with yet more drinking by a small group gathered at the back of the cabin.

One passenger invited a female steward to “sit on his lap,” the source said.

Another passenger tried to wrap his arm around a female steward. “They were grabbed like they were in a bar,” the source said, making the woman feel “uncomfortable.” 

Two passengers were so intoxicated that they urinated in their seats. And yet another is alleged to have sworn at a steward.

It was during this flight to Athens — not the later leg to Latvia, contrary to earlier information provided by the military — that Williams is alleged to have assaulted a female steward. His lawyer, Michael Lacy, said in an earlier statement, that military police allege that Williams touched the victim on the buttocks. 

Following their troop visit in Greece, the goodwill tour continued to Riga, Latvia — that flight too had a “lot of partying,” the source said.

While the alleged assault by Williams had been immediately reported to the first officer while the flight was still in the air to Greece, it wasn’t until after their arrival in Riga that the flight crew talked further about what had transpired and decided then to formally inform the chain of command. “It was not only unpleasant, it’s not okay. These women want a safe working environment,” the source said.

That delay partly explains why Williams was allowed to continue on the tour and participate in events in Latvia.

Once notified, commanders took steps to “distance the victim from the accused,” the military explained in an earlier statement. The victim and other female flight stewards all accepted an offer to return home on commercial flights.

“The bottom line is that we took care of the victim with respect and dignity, while dealing with the accused through a thorough and expedient police investigation,” the statement said. 

Just over a week ago, the military police announced that Williams had been charged with one count of assault and one count of sexual assault.

“Tiger denies any wrongdoing and is confident he will be vindicated,” Lacy, the lawyer, said in his statement.

Over the past week, the military has been pressed to explain why Williams was allowed to continue on the tour even though the alleged misbehaviour occurred on the initial flight. And there have been questions about what, if anything, Parent and West knew about the activity on the plane. A senior source says they only became aware of the alleged assault later, after the tour was over. 

In the wake of the charges and bad publicity, the military announced this week that it was reviewing its policy on serving alcohol onboard air force flights, whether to limit passengers to two drinks or eliminate it altogether. 

“On this particular flight, like on commercial flights, alcohol was permitted and served to Team Canada guests — not aircrew,” defence department spokesperson Daniel Le Bouthillier said in an email.

“The intent behind this practice is to enable participants to enjoy a few beverages throughout the course of a long trip, not unlike a commercial flight,” he said. 

“Much like passengers on civilian aircraft, participants on these trips are responsible for knowing their own limits, while air crew members are professionally trained to recognize sings of intoxication,” Le Bouthillier said.

The Royal Canadian Navy went through its own soul-searching about drinking onboard warships after several incidents of bad behaviour by sailors. The navy decided in 2014 to ban sailors from consuming alcohol while at sea.

Plans for future goodwill tours are also in limbo. A trip planned for March was already up in the air because of troubles rounding up entertainers and artists. It’s now been postponed and the military is weighing whether such trips are worth the effort and expense.

“Due to limited VIP availability, we have decided to postpone a previously scheduled visit for March to ensure the focus remains on providing deployed troops with a quality, relevant experience,” Le Bouthillier said.

He said that the Team Canada concept launched a dozen years ago to serve military personnel deployed in large numbers in Afghanistan is now under review.

“The morale of our deployed members is extremely important to the operational effectiveness of the Canadian Armed Forces, and Team Canada visits have been a unique way to show our appreciation for their personal sacrifices,” he said.

“We are also examining ways to enhance the program with the intent to always meet the needs of our people,” Le Bouthillier said.


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## Towards_the_gap (20 Feb 2018)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> This is the story I saw on this.
> 
> Article Link
> 
> ...



Maybe a critical eye SHOULD be cast upon this program. I mean, what actual mission effects are enabled by Tiger Williams showing up on tour. Let's see some empirical evidence, hell, run a poll amongst deployed troops!

 I mean, they are only away 6-8 months anyways, I could see the point back in the big war when guys spent 5-6 years overseas with the odd fling in London/Paris to relieve the monotony of training/frontline and mail took months to get back and forth. But now, with smartphones/wifi/satellite entertainment, the troops do just fine, sure the odd care package is nice but I really don't recall, as I sat behind a mud wall hearing AK rounds snap overhead, thinking 'damn, wish I could meet a retired NHL dude who I don't know right now, that would make this war so much more bearable'


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## Furniture (20 Feb 2018)

To be fair not every, or even most deployments are like that now. They haven't been like that in a long time really. 
I get the idea of wanting to do something to break up the monotony of a tour, but maybe the best answer isn't to send a flying party bus full of "stars" nobody has heard of. Maybe the better plan is to spend that money giving people a few days break in a close but safe location. I hear Germany is quite nice, not too far from Latvia either. The navy really doesn't require the same sort of break as most ports the crew get a day or two off ship to wind down and refresh themselves.


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## donaldk (21 Feb 2018)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Maybe a critical eye SHOULD be cast upon this program. I mean, what actual mission effects are enabled by Tiger Williams showing up on tour. Let's see some empirical evidence, hell, run a poll amongst deployed troops!
> 
> I mean, they are only away 6-8 months anyways, I could see the point back in the big war when guys spent 5-6 years overseas with the odd fling in London/Paris to relieve the monotony of training/frontline and mail took months to get back and forth. But now, with smartphones/wifi/satellite entertainment, the troops do just fine, sure the odd care package is nice but I really don't recall, as I sat behind a mud wall hearing AK rounds snap overhead, thinking 'damn, wish I could meet a retired NHL dude who I don't know right now, that would make this war so much more bearable'



Well the similar thread in the /r/CanadianForces group on a certain well known site sure implies these morale tours aren't well appreciated - however unless hell freezes over there isn't going to be an official gallop poll on this as that would be it's own fine PR disaster production.  This topic over in that thread is practically a shooting galley with the blame finger pointed at the VCDS/CDS (frankly well deserved as their offices organized this crap show to begin with).


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## Weinie (22 Feb 2018)

Sorry, but what is this certain "well known site" that you are talking about


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## Humphrey Bogart (22 Feb 2018)

Weinie said:
			
		

> Sorry, but what is this certain "well known site" that you are talking about



PM inbound

The Staff


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## MJP (22 Feb 2018)

Weinie said:
			
		

> Sorry, but what is this certain "well known site" that you are talking about



Reddit; https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/


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## Navy_Pete (23 Feb 2018)

Interesting to read the story after the constant messages down from the very top around OP Honour about looking out for each other, the bystander training, and the veiled threats of kicking people out that ignore something happening (alongside punishing the actual perpetrators).

Really helps their credibility and doesn't feed the existing cynicism. :facepalm:


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## Humphrey Bogart (23 Feb 2018)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Interesting to read the story after the constant messages down from the very top around OP Honour about looking out for each other, the bystander training, and the veiled threats of kicking people out that ignore something happening (alongside punishing the actual perpetrators).
> 
> Really helps their credibility and doesn't feed the existing cynicism. :facepalm:



Some stuff coming out about other guests on the plane, this only has one source but it is talking about Brian Burke also being intoxicated. 

(Link removed) 

Edit:  not sure if it's satire or not but I'm hoping it is.

Edit: 

And there is video footage up now, oh boy!


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## dimsum (23 Feb 2018)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> Edit:
> 
> And there is video footage up now, oh boy!



Of *course* there is.   :not-again:


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## hambley92 (24 Feb 2018)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> Some stuff coming out about other guests on the plane, this only has one source but it is talking about Brian Burke also being intoxicated.



Based on what I have heard from very reputable sources, Burke was supposed to be there and never showed up at the ship. Take from that what you will.


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## Humphrey Bogart (24 Feb 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Of *course* there is.   :not-again:



It's been removed from Facebook now.  They had a sound system set up and were rocking out with a bunch of people up dancing and drinking.  Looked like fun  :rofl:


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## Eye In The Sky (24 Feb 2018)

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Interesting to read the story after the constant messages down from the very top around OP Honour about looking out for each other, the bystander training, and the veiled threats of kicking people out that ignore something happening (alongside punishing the actual perpetrators).
> 
> Really helps their credibility and doesn't feed the existing cynicism. :facepalm:



Aside from the aircraft captain (who is responsible to a certain extent), the story I posted also indicated the VCDS and CF CWO were on board.


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