# One more question on ACS!



## J_Muir (14 Aug 2006)

If/when you pass ACS and your file gets sent away for review, do they also look things such as volunteer work, leadership roles etc....like the sorts of things that show a persons character and not just numbers and results on medicals?

It just seems to me that they would. I mean for something to go to a review board, there needs to be more to look at than test scores - otherwise, you'd just get an offer immediately after learning you'd passed ACS

Thanks in advance..


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## Magravan (14 Aug 2006)

I would assume that the results of your interview would be considered, but I don't know for certain. I am mainly replying to watch the topic for later, as I'm curious about it as well.


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## Barracuda13 (14 Aug 2006)

HI J, i think it is important but then again i don t think it d be really a big factor in decision, if you have the same results with another guy maybe that would be a factor. As magravan said at the interview they ask you about those things but they don t just ask about volunteer work, I imagine there are so many factors during selection. Also volunteering is basically helping people but i don t think every mission assigned is going to be a humanitarian one. Well these are my thoughts and doesn t really mean much, but i think a sharp mind and a fit body counts more. ( just my 2 cents , it might be mistaken )


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## J_Muir (15 Aug 2006)

Barracuda13 said:
			
		

> HI J, i think it is important but then again i don t think it d be really a big factor in decision, if you have the same results with another guy maybe that would be a factor. As magravan said at the interview they ask you about those things but they don t just ask about volunteer work, I imagine there are so many factors during selection. Also volunteering is basically helping people but i don t think every mission assigned is going to be a humanitarian one. Well these are my thoughts and doesn t really mean much, but i think a sharp mind and a fit body counts more. ( just my 2 cents , it might be mistaken )



I agree, I agree. I realize that you already go through an initial interview with a recruiter - which gives them some idea of who you are. Also, I certainly realize that volunteering and going to war are two different things.

However, I still have to ask the question: Why does a persons file go to a review board? If they simply look at a few test results, why can't one person decide your fate in a matter of seconds? - and why can't that be done in a matter of days after ACS? To me, it just seems like they must look at other factors...possibly ones I mentioned before.

Like at the reveiw board, do they say " Ok this guy didn't score as well on the PLT test, but he really had a good interview - great charisma, seems like a good leader...we'll put him through based on decent enough test results and a solid character"

I have to wonder.


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## Magravan (15 Aug 2006)

I always believed that it would be a composite consideration... "Well, X scored well on pilot, but doesn't look like much of a leader based on the interview results. Y had an exceptional interview, decent pilot score, but unfortunately the medical looks like a train wreck. Z did well at pilot, interview but barely made the PT." and then it is sort of a who has the best chances of making good use of the spot that is available based on all of these criteria?


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## J_Muir (15 Aug 2006)

Magravan said:
			
		

> I always believed that it would be a composite consideration... "Well, X scored well on pilot, but doesn't look like much of a leader based on the interview results. Y had an exceptional interview, decent pilot score, but unfortunately the medical looks like a train wreck. Z did well at pilot, interview but barely made the PT." and then it is sort of a who has the best chances of making good use of the spot that is available based on all of these criteria?



That's exactly what I imagine happening. The whole term 'selection/review board' leads me to believe it's more than just looking at a name, looking at a couple scores and ticking a box. If that is the case, why not just go into a back room at ACS for 5 minutes and then come out with an answer. There are a lot of smart people out there that are social morons that have zero character....and vice versa.


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## TheCheez (18 Aug 2006)

Just a disclaimer to start, I'm not involved in selection or recruiting at all so just speculation on my part:

The powers that be can't just go and tell you straight up at ACS the main reason being that selections happen a couple times a year, where ACS is run continually. The bar to get in is not set so that everyone at a certain level gets an offer. They look at all the files and the slots they've got and work from there(I hope).

I also think you're overestimating the value of ACS, but you'd have to ask the experts on the recruiting forum(search maybe) for details on how they weight things. The interview is pretty significant(I hope!).

Good luck with the rest of the selection!


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## Sf2 (18 Aug 2006)

When went thru the recuiting process in 1995 - your ACS result was either PASS/FAIL on your file - no scores.  Your acceptance into the CF has nothing to do with your Pilot potential, only your Officer potential.


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## WannaBeFlyer (18 Aug 2006)

spidy said:
			
		

> ...your ACS result was either PASS/FAIL on your file - no scores.  Your acceptance into the CF has nothing to do with your Pilot potential, only your Officer potential.



Just to give you an example, I had a conditional offer before heading to Aircrew selection. I was told that I was extremely competitive and that I did really well on my interview and other areas. Having said that, I am not sure if that was more of a March madness type of deal where they needed to fill vacancies and I had everything completed but Aircrew...

Sounds like you are really interested J and have the right motivation. What you might want to look at is becoming the "well rounded individual". (Show that you can juggle University, sports, volunteer time etc. and that you just don't go home and stick your nose in your books each night). Maybe do a search on Interviews within this site. Honestly though, if you continue researching the job as you have been and you have any sort of passion for the CAF, the interview will seem an opportunity to finally discuss your passion with someone who can relate (other than army.ca folks that is).

Good luck.


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## Sf2 (18 Aug 2006)

> Just to give you an example, I had a conditional offer before heading to Aircrew selection



more likely that your offer was conditional on you PASSING - nothing to do with how well you did at ACS.  
Just goes to show that your performace at ACS has nothing to do with your acceptance, aside for either passing or failing.


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## WannaBeFlyer (18 Aug 2006)

spidy said:
			
		

> Just goes to show that your performace at ACS has nothing to do with your acceptance, aside for either passing or failing.


Exactly. (That is what I was getting to but for some reason I didn't add that.  :-\ )   Thanks Spidy.


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## J_Muir (18 Aug 2006)

MikeG said:
			
		

> Just to give you an example, I had a conditional offer before heading to Aircrew selection. I was told that I was extremely competitive and that I did really well on my interview and other areas. Having said that, I am not sure if that was more of a March madness type of deal where they needed to fill vacancies and I had everything completed but Aircrew...
> 
> Sounds like you are really interested J and have the right motivation. What you might want to look at is becoming the "well rounded individual". (Show that you can juggle University, sports, volunteer time etc. and that you just don't go home and stick your nose in your books each night). Maybe do a search on Interviews within this site. Honestly though, if you continue researching the job as you have been and you have any sort of passion for the CAF, the interview will seem an opportunity to finally discuss your passion with someone who can relate (other than army.ca folks that is).
> 
> Good luck.



Thanks Mike, appreciate the feedback. The reason I brought the topic up is due to the fact that I do think i'm pretty well rounded individual (not to sound overly confident or anything   ) and really hope they take other factors into consideration when offering positions. Also, if they do pay attention to the sorts of things you mentioned, it would be worth bringing it up with  them during the interview if it means gaining even the slightest edge over someone else.

I will run a search for interviews and see what I can dig up.

Thanks again,

J


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## kincanucks (18 Aug 2006)

DEO Pilot:

CFAT
MEDICAL
INTERVIEW
BACKGROUND CHECK
PHYSICAL FITNESS TEST
CFASC
MERIT LISTED
FILE SENT TO BOARD

Each applicant is given a score based on:

Academic performance - X/15
CFAT Score - X/15

Interview (applicant answers questions) and file review (counsellor reviews application) - X/60

For a total score - X/90

When I had left recruiting DEO files were one of the very few files that were still sent to Borden but that may have since changed and maybe just the score is sent as is with many other entry plans such as ROTP.  So CFASC is just a pass/fail and you must have it, most of the time, before you can be merit listed and what you have done in your life and how well you have done is all important.


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## J_Muir (18 Aug 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> DEO Pilot:
> 
> CFAT
> MEDICAL
> ...



Thanks man, great info.


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## Magravan (19 Aug 2006)

I don't suppose we are allowed to find out the values of those? I'd love to know what I got for my interview, numerically...


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## jmnavy (19 Aug 2006)

I never got to see mine, although I never asked.  I'm not sure seeing the numbers would do you a lot of good since they probably wouldn't be able to explain why you got each grade.  But who knows, when the time comes, ask away.  

The people who failed ACS when I went in February either took other trades or were told they could upgrade their pilot's license and come back in a year.  We were told by the selection officer there that the pass rate the second time through ACS is around 95%.  Pass or fail, no one gets a breakdown of the marks though.  Here's a picture of the 'report card' I got.


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## Magravan (19 Aug 2006)

I'm just curious about the numerical representation of my interview... I'm interested in learning how I did in every interview, and having it quantified is something that I do well with. It doesn't really matter why I got what I did, only to know what the interviewer thought about my as compared to the norm...

And if I knew that I had (for example) a really, really low score comparitively with pilots, I may be more likely to accept my second or third choice, than sit around forever waiting and realistically never being high enough on the merit list to get a call... I want pilot first and foremost (presuming I qualify after ACS), but if there is no way that I am going to realistically get the call for it, I'd rather know so that if they call me for Air Nav, I can make a judgement knowing that I'm not giving up my chances for pilot.

It's not going to make a difference if I can't get access to it, just something I'd like to know for my own future planning.


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## kincanucks (19 Aug 2006)

Magravan said:
			
		

> I don't suppose we are allowed to find out the values of those? I'd love to know what I got for my interview, numerically...



No


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## Sf2 (19 Aug 2006)

I guess its a product of the internet generation, but I cannot believe this level intense analysis, trouble, and research that people are doing about ACS, recruiting, interview scores etc....  

Folks, this is only the beginning.  Getting in is by far, by FAR, the easiest step in your quest to attaining your goal.  If you guys continue like this, you're going to be burned out by day 2 of basic training. I've been in for 12 yrs, did the ROTP/RMC thing, been flying Griffons for 4 years.   Take it as it comes guys, and be reactive to the situation.  It is utterly impossible to anticipate every single factor that is going to affect the outcome of your military careers.   Over-analyzing possibilities, results scores, how you compare to "the norm", is only going to cause you to fail at what you really need to do - and that is be yourself, LEARN, and let your natural abilities to carry you through.

If any of you DO go pilot, you will soon learn that your whole training process will be a result of a bunch of numbers ranging from 1-5.  And you know what?  Almost everyone who went thru with me, burning their brains about how EVERYONE ELSE was doing, forgot about themselves, and FAILED.

You guys really need to tone down the "getting as much info as possible".  You're over-saturating yourselves, and if anything is different than what you've anticipated as a result of your research, you're going to get UBER-Flustered and screw up.

Bottom line guys, concentrate on keeping your good highschool marks, if that's the case - go into your interview/ACS/Medical/whatever, with your own self confidence in your NATURAL, not internet-born abilities


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## kincanucks (19 Aug 2006)

spidy said:
			
		

> I guess its a product of the internet generation, but I cannot believe this level intense analysis, trouble, and research that people are doing about ACS, recruiting, interview scores etc....
> 
> Folks, this is only the beginning.  Getting in is by far, by FAR, the easiest step in your quest to attaining your goal.  If you guys continue like this, you're going to be burned out by day 2 of basic training. I've been in for 12 yrs, did the ROTP/RMC thing, been flying Griffons for 4 years.   Take it as it comes guys, and be reactive to the situation.  It is utterly impossible to anticipate every single factor that is going to affect the outcome of your military careers.   Over-analyzing possibilities, results scores, how you compare to "the norm", is only going to cause you to fail at what you really need to do - and that is be yourself, LEARN, and let your natural abilities to carry you through.
> 
> ...



Well said spidy but you may as well tell it to a wall as you will get the same reaction. Cheers.


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## Magravan (19 Aug 2006)

That is the first time that I've ever heard of this generation being accused of doing too much  ;D


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## flyboy140 (19 Aug 2006)

I absolutely agree with Spidy. It is a long haul to become a military pilot. You will flame out before you reach your goal if you give in to excessive worrying.


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