# Chartered Accountants in the Canadian Forces



## ctse89 (24 Aug 2010)

Hi All,

I am new to this forum and this will be my first post. I tried to look around to find a thread of a similar topic and wasn't successful so hopefully I'll be bringing a new topic into this forum.

I'm currently a university student enrolled in a Bachelor of Business Administration program with a double concentration in accounting and finance, and will be entering my 4th year this fall (I will be taking 5 years to complete my program). I have always been highly interested in joining the Canadian Forces Reserves as an Officer, however I have been hesitant to join the Reserves as I know that I will not be able to commit to summer training. Assuming that I am hired at a local reserves unit this fall, would they likely be lenient enough to let me postpone my BOTC (that would be the correct one?) until the summer of 2012 instead of 2011?

On another note, following graduation I will be pursuing a Chartered Accountant (CA) designation which requires me to be committed to an authorized public accounting firm for a good 3 years or so. Say if I were interested in transferring to Regular Forces after obtaining a CA designation, does anyone know what benefits this credential may provide in the Regular Forces?

In summary, I'm a university student hoping to join the reserves, all while pursuing a CA designation (this process will probably last a good 5 years), which may be followed by transferring to Regular Forces after obtaining the designation. What opportunities might the Canadian Forces hold for an individual with ambitions as such?

Thanks in advance for anyone's input, I'd just like to get opinions of others who are more experienced in the community.


----------



## megany (24 Aug 2010)

CA Magazine (which you will receive as a CA articling student once you are employed by a firm) actually had an article about a CA who joined the military on a full time basis because he had a "taste for adventure".

Here is the link:  http://www.camagazine.com/archives/print-edition/2008/aug/features/camagazine4519.aspx

I pursued a CA designation after graduating from university but I quickly discovered that the work didn't interest me.  I talked to the military at that time and was strongly encouraged to look into Logistics positions as the experience from the CA would translate well into that type of work.  

In terms of being a reservist while getting your CA - What kind of firm, and where, will you be articling with?  I was with a Big 4 firm in Calgary and there is no way I would have had the time or the support from the firm to be a reservist while working as a CA student.  Having any sort of life outside the firm is very difficult - I was told I wasn't a "team player" because I skipped lunch and coffee breaks so I could fit in an hour at the gym 3x/week before going back to work.  Your experience could be completely different as it is very firm/city dependent, but I don't want you to be miserable - make sure you do all of your research!


----------



## George Wallace (24 Aug 2010)

It doesn’t matter if you are planning on joining either the Reserves or Regular Force, you will have to make a commitment.  You will have to take the time to get your qualifications, either as a NCM or an officer.  You have to do your Trades training.  If you can not commit now as a student, nor for three years as you articulate in a job, then don’t bother joining, as you are taking up a position that someone who may be more dedicated and committed could fill.

As a Reservist, I am sure you would be welcomed into any Reserve unit to handle their “books” and financial matters.  You can do so as either a NCM (RMS Clerk) or an officer (Logistics Officer).  You will have to commit to doing your Basic Training and your Trades Training.

If you plan on joining the Regular Force later, you may have to do Trades training over again, depending on what credit you may be given for your courses taken.  This will be the same, whether you join as an officer or a NCM.

In the end, if you cannot commit, then wait until such time as you can.  If you still can’t commit, then don’t even bother applying.


----------



## Pusser (24 Aug 2010)

Please take heed of the statements above regarding commitment.  You will just frustrate yourself and everyone else concerned if you cannot put in the time to do it properly.  The first thing to remember is that although there is a place for CAs in the CF, that is not all you would do and there are many other things that you must train for.

If you are choosing to use your CA skills, the obvious occupation for you is Logistics Officer.  However, LogOs still have to be proficient in weapons handling and a variety of other military skills (some of which are more important than others, depending on whether you are Army , Navy or Air Force).  You will also be called upon to do things that have nothing to do with accounting or even financial management.  Truth be known, although there are some logistics positions that require hard core accounting skills at the CA level, they're relatively few in number and mostly at NDHQ (e.g. Strategic Finance).  Many logistics jobs require a knowledge of accounting (or rather bookkeeping), but certainly not at the CA level (or anything close).  It is also worth noting that Logistics is a huge branch and once you are in, the powers that be may decide to train you in another logistics function (e.g. transportation or supply).  Having a CA is no guarantee that you will be allowed to specialize in finance or be employed there, although they may try.  I knew CA years ago who was initially trained and employed in supply and it took a few years before he was allowed into finance.  Finally, training and employment for junior logisitics officers is focused on environment and operations.  It will be a few years (i.e. at the senior captain or major level) before you will really get into an area where a CA would be useful.

There are no special advantages in terms of pay, seniority or exemption from training in  having a CA upon enrollment.  However, it will be considered for potential points for promotion to higher rank (i.e. possibly to major, definitely to lieutenant colonel), but you have to get all the "ticks in the box" as junior officer first.

Consider also that some people join the Reserve to do something completely different.  I've heard of a Reserve infantry officer who was a church minister in civilian life!


----------



## ctse89 (24 Aug 2010)

@megsy - Thanks for the article it did give me quite a bit of insight. I haven't been hired by a firm yet as this upcoming fall will be my first CA recruit session and I'm looking into an internship for the summer for 2011 in Vancouver. I understand of course that to be a CA student while in the reserves is a tough load, but I think I'd like to give it a shot. Thanks for the input!

@George Wallace/Pusser - I understand very well there is a large level of commitment required. However, I'm not saying I can't commit to any summer training for the next 3 years, but rather as I said originally I am just wondering how likely they are to allow me to postpone basic training from summer of 2011 to summer 2012. For each summer after I believe I may be able to attend trades training. That brings up another question of mine though, how many summers does it take to finish the expected minimum level of training to be part of a reserves unit? As a Reserves Officer I'd be expected do IAP (or BOTC?) and then MOC? Then another trades training course so I guess that would bring me to about 3 summers... I also hear that there are some Reserve units that allow BOTC to be done locally throughout the year over several weekends so maybe that might be an option. Thanks again to all of you for your insight.

I'd say that I'm still more interested in being in the Reserves actually, Reg Force is just an option I may consider in a good 5 years or so...


----------



## megany (25 Aug 2010)

Again, depending on your firm, you may have trouble attending trades training in the summer.  It was always a struggle for us to get time off in the summer because of quarterly reviews - junior staff picked up most of the work here as there was usually a cohort of seniors on study leave for the UFE.  The best time to get leave was either in June or late August.

If you are in Vancouver you will have a choice between CASB and MPAcc to get your designation.  Module 1 of CASB was pretty straightforward but it all goes downhill - you will have assignments due every Friday night and you will have revisions due every Sunday night (on previous assignments) - in your worst weeks you would have a full assignment due on the Friday and then possibly two weeks worth of revisions due on the Sunday.  Plus you have a weekend of in-class sessions (mandatory) and a Saturday exam.  You will be teaching yourself the material - if you get stuck you can do a "chat" online that has a bit more information.  In your lightest weeks the CASB workload will likely be 12 hours but 20-25 is more likely.  This is on top of your regular work schedule.

Assuming you follow a standard pattern of Mod 1 in the September you start working, you will take busy season off from modules and take close to two years to complete the program.  You will have a summer of Mod 5, Mod 6 (two full time weeks) and then studying for the UFE which is written in September.  

If you do an internship in Sept 2011 you will likely graduate in Summer 2012, correct?  This is probably the only summer you can guarantee having off - if you are on the standard UFE schedule (assuming no fails - and people DO fail modules) - you will likely work summer 2013 and be studying for the UFE in summer 2014.  I don't know how you expect to have 3 summers off while trying to get your designation... 

If you are determined to do this you will want to work for a small (not Big 4, not midsized) firm so that you have time.  If you can avoid the audits your only busy season will really be during the taxes - but, depending on the summer schedule required for reserve training this could be another issue as the tax work can stretch into the university summer.

Also - I forgot to add - there is also the possibility of serious travel.  I spent only 6 weeks at home from January - April because I was doing fieldwork in Houston, Phoenix, Colombia, etc.


----------



## Redeye (25 Aug 2010)

ctse89 said:
			
		

> @George Wallace/Pusser - I understand very well there is a large level of commitment required. However, I'm not saying I can't commit to any summer training for the next 3 years, but rather as I said originally I am just wondering how likely they are to allow me to postpone basic training from summer of 2011 to summer 2012. For each summer after I believe I may be able to attend trades training. That brings up another question of mine though, how many summers does it take to finish the expected minimum level of training to be part of a reserves unit? As a Reserves Officer I'd be expected do IAP (or BOTC?) and then MOC? Then another trades training course so I guess that would bring me to about 3 summers... I also hear that there are some Reserve units that allow BOTC to be done locally throughout the year over several weekends so maybe that might be an option. Thanks again to all of you for your insight.



For most Reserve Officer trades you are looking at two summers if you do it all in one shot - your basic course is done in most cases on weekends with your home unit, and then you'll do BMOQ(L)/Common Army Phase in the first summer, and your trade course the following summer.  Some of the courses are modularized so that you can break them up.  Because of my work schedule I had to spread my Infantry Officer DP 1.1 course out over three years.  It sucked taking so long through the process, but I did get to meet a lot more people and draw from a lot more instructors' experiences, so there was some benefit there.


----------

