# Returning to RegF (CT from PRes)



## m2austin (30 May 2012)

Good day everyone,

As a former PRes and RegF member in the combat arms, I've decided upon the completion of my undergraduate (and some graduate work) to reenlist back in the RegF from my current PRes unit in Southern Ontario.

So far things seem to be going good. The process is now all online through the CMP, accessible through the DWAN only. I confirmed with the local recruiting centre that the trade I am reenlisting into is indeed accepting NCM positions. The mbr of the recruiting staff explained that there currently is an NCO gap between MCpl and WO resulting from people like me who left the RegF after a few TFA tours.

Before I submitted my CT, I checked with the reserve unit for class B postings within Southern Ontario - but to no avail. While I would like to stay down here, I will return to commuting the 1300k each week on weekends until my wife and I get settled hopefully around Petawawa / Deep River.

I'll keep this post going, updating and answering questions or taking advice. 

Chimo.

M


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## m2austin (31 May 2012)

Confirmed with some leadership in the unit I want to be posted to that there is indeed a leadership gap which includes senior Cpl's, MCpl's and Sgt's.

While the unit seems to need my rank, I don't know how many other Cpl's or new Pvt's will be joining the unit. To me, that's none of my business - I just want leadership to know that I'm here and want back in.

M

<Note: This is my former unit and I still know a bunch of the leadership>


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## NMPeters (6 Jun 2012)

I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, but I do need to inject some reality on something that the leadership you've been talking to (whoever they may be) within your old Regiment may not know. Yes, there is currently a leadership gap within the Infantry at the MCpl, Sgt and WO ranks. Note how I did not mention the Cpl rank. Currently, the Infantryman trade is overstrength at the Pte/Cpl rank level and there are programs in place to entice these members to transfer to other occupations that are understrength. During the Annual Military Occupational Review earlier this year, which sets the Strategic Intake Plan, the Infantry Branch determined how many Pte/Cpls they would accept this year through Component Transfers. In the grand scheme of things, this number is quite small. Acceptance for CTs is being done this year on a "first past the post" basis and there are hundreds of people who have submitted their CT application for Infantryman. All that to say, you may be in for a bit of a wait on your application.


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## m2austin (6 Jun 2012)

Thank you very much for your input on the current state of things within the infantry - I've heard rumours previously to the matter. I am, however, not an infantryman.

I would hope that CMP would push for merit over a fptp approach to CT's in the infantry and military in general? Should a meritous member with a great MPRR not be selected because she or he was #101 out of the 100 required for the year? I very well may be ignorant on this issue, but I haven't heard of the CF operating in such a manner.


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## NMPeters (7 Jun 2012)

M2A said:
			
		

> Thank you very much for your input on the current state of things within the infantry - I've heard rumours previously to the matter. I am, however, not an infantryman.
> 
> I would hope that CMP would push for merit over a fptp approach to CT's in the infantry and military in general? Should a meritous member with a great MPRR not be selected because she or he was #101 out of the 100 required for the year? I very well may be ignorant on this issue, but I haven't heard of the CF operating in such a manner.



Unfortunately, meriting and boarding are very labourious and the shop that is responsible for CTs is understaffed, especially in relation to the number of CT applications that they receive. Don't even bother going into the "they should hire more people" discussion because that belongs in another thread. Now, having said that, the CA has decided that meriting would only be done for the leadership ranks and the Cpls and Ptes would be first past the post. I will give you an example as to why this was done. Let's say you have Cpl Bloggins and Cpl Schmuck who want to join the Reg F. Cpl Bloggins puts in an application for CT. Cpl Bloggins then, already being enrolled in the CF, then has to compete with other candidates across the country. His application has to go to a merit board and then he's put on a list. Cpl Schmuck, who has identical qualifications, quits the PRes and goes to the recruiting centre. His file doesn't go to a merit board. He gets put on a list (and most likely near the top because of his "prior military experience" and after completing all of his requirements he's through the door. Cpl Bloggins is still waiting because he has to go through a more extensive process than Joe Q Public does for the exact same position within the Reg F. So, that's why first past the post is being done for the Cpls and Ptes. It's entry level and meriting the P Res for entry level in actuality gives unfair advantage to someone who is applying from the Canadian public.

Which MOSID are you trying to get back into?


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## m2austin (7 Jun 2012)

Thank you NMPeters, I never considered releasing from the PRes and directly applying through a CFRC. I understand what you mean in how a merit-based approach to the CT process would take a greater amount of time if mbrs had to merit through the reserves.

00339


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## PuckChaser (7 Jun 2012)

Sounds great to just release and get back in the RegF, but instead of trying to merit against 200 CT applicants, now you have to fight for a spot with 4-5,000 off the street applicants. That, and when you release it takes time for your file to get archived in Ottawa, and you will need to wait for it to get there before they can process you. At least 6 months and then you haven't even started getting put onto a list for a spot.


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## NMPeters (12 Jun 2012)

To be clear, I'm not advising that reservists would be better off to release and then join the Reg F through a CFRC. I merely explained why we opted for the "first past the post" approach for the Pte/Cpl ranks rather than merit listing these people. My example of someone releasing and trying that route, was merely that - an example which I know many have done in the past. 

There are issues with the CT process and it's well known and efforts are being made to resolve these issues as we speak. I'm hoping the solution(s) will come sooner rather than later, but it is out of the Army's hands and all we can do now is wait and see.


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## Allgunzblazing (12 Jun 2012)

NMPeters: 

When you say "it is out of the Army's hands", does this mean that the recommendations put forward by the CF for the CT process are being reviewed by the DND?


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## PuckChaser (12 Jun 2012)

NMPeters said:
			
		

> There are issues with the CT process and it's well known and efforts are being made to resolve these issues as we speak. I'm hoping the solution(s) will come sooner rather than later, but it is out of the Army's hands and all we can do now is wait and see.



If the CF is full that means its full for CT applicants too. There are spots set aside every year for CTs, because the CF has already trained you and its more cost effective then getting a new person. Unless you're CTing into a red trade, be prepared to wait. In no way are you entitled to CT. The only issue I saw with the CT process was that DMCA was undermanned for all the applications they get. I personally had an offer in my hands in 3 months flat for a red trade. A good friend of mine transferred 3 years before me, and waited 2.5 years to get into the same red trade, with the same quals I had.


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## m2austin (13 Jun 2012)

Thanks PuckChaser - the trade I'm CT'ing into is currently open.

One thought was brought up in the last meeting I had with leadership wrt if I were promoted to MCpl following completion of a PLQ. Does this mean my application would now go through review (merit) vs. FPTP as stated above with Cpl's and Pte's?

As some are well aware, crse loading in the PRes is rather rapid, as is career progression. Is CT progress based on the rank when first application was made or is it continuously updated based on the new rank?

Thank you gentlemen for your answers thus far.


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## PuckChaser (13 Jun 2012)

I've seen 5 year MCpls keep their rank, and they didn't have a tour to substantiate it. My rank was protected as there was a CANFORGEN in effect at the time that said if you deployed at a rank you transferred at that rank as we were shorthanded all across the board. Unless your courses are missing a lot of material from the RegF packages, you'll get them all granted.


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## m2austin (13 Jun 2012)

Thanks PuckChaser, I was aware of this through DAOD 5002-3 and the online CT procedure... My question was pertaining to CT selection. According to NMPeters, Pte/Cpl rank is first come first served wrt CT'ing. MCpl, Sgt and above is merit-based. If, while waiting, I complete my PLQ and recieve the rank of MCpl, would I no longer qualify for "first come first served" and instead have to merit? If this is the case, I can see an issue notably with our infantry brothers who may be Sgt's by the time they get a letter.

Sorry for the prior confusion PuckChaser.


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## m2austin (18 Jun 2012)

Today I received my confirmation from CT Cell in NDHQ that they received my CT.

All that's needed on my part now is a medical and MPRR update to add my university work and some minor other qualifications.

Here's hoping I'm not standing in a long line.


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## NMPeters (19 Jun 2012)

M2A said:
			
		

> Thanks PuckChaser, I was aware of this through DAOD 5002-3 and the online CT procedure... My question was pertaining to CT selection. According to NMPeters, Pte/Cpl rank is first come first served wrt CT'ing. MCpl, Sgt and above is merit-based. If, while waiting, I complete my PLQ and recieve the rank of MCpl, would I no longer qualify for "first come first served" and instead have to merit? If this is the case, I can see an issue notably with our infantry brothers who may be Sgt's by the time they get a letter.
> 
> Sorry for the prior confusion PuckChaser.



M2A

There are other factors involved. Now, I'm speaking strictly of the Army Managed MOSIDs which, for NCMs, are: Crmn, Arty Fd, Arty AD, Infmn, Cbt Engr, ACISS, Geo Tech, Veh Tech, EO Tech, Wpn Tech L, and Mat tech. Any other MOSID I cannot speak with any authority or fidelity. However, for those mentioned above, it depends on if and how many the Branch Advisor decided to accept into the Strategic Intake Plan as CT during the Annual Military Occupational Review. For example, if the Br Advisor decided to accept 10 CTs at the rank of MCpl and there are only 5 applicants, then it's not an issue. But if he only decided to accept 5 at that rank and there are 20 applicants, then some meriting would have to occur. And that would be done within CMP. But, just because you are a MCpl in the PRes, does not guarantee that you will be offered that rank. It will depend on the number of positions open, but more importantly, it will be determined by LFDTS through the PLAR (Prior Learning Assessment Record) what qualifications you will be granted and from that the Career Manager will decide what rank to offer. It's not cut and dried and there is no "one size fits all" solution. Each application is a "one off", so to speak.


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## m2austin (19 Jun 2012)

Thank you for taking the time to reply NMPeters.

I don't think there will be much of a PLAR issue as I left the RegF for the PRes as a Cpl, and to the best of my understanding, the PLQ(L) is the same course for both PRes and RegF, both in terms of length and material.

When it comes to the 6A, however, I know there is a notable gap between the the PRes and RegF crses in terms of both.

Still, not sitting around waiting for this CT to go through - grabbing every tasking and crse I can get my hands on. I wish there was access to e-learning modules for troops, accessible from home on downtime.


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## m2austin (21 Aug 2012)

Can confirm from D Mil C that Officer and NCM CT's are merit-based and not first-come-first-serve. NCM files are compared to one another to determine if the mbr is accepted.


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## TSpoon (22 Aug 2012)

M2A said:
			
		

> Can confirm from D Mil C that Officer and NCM CT's are merit-based and not first-come-first-serve. NCM files are compared to one another to determine if the mbr is accepted.




would that include comparing how many courses one applicant has vs another (i.e. if one was fininshed trade training and the other wasn't ?)
or are they just looking at all the factors from the normal application process(CFAT,medical.interview,references) ? Sorry to invade your thread M2A, thanks in advance and good luck with the CT !!


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