# Wearing Uniform in Public (Cadets)



## RememberanceDay

We've pretty much all done it, gone out in public in uniform after training, off 'duty'. Whether to pick up groceries, or just hang out at the mall with some friends waiting for the ride home. As long as we keep our behavior in check, then I've never had a problem. 

The public, though, can be a regular hoot. From the confused stares to the well-meant questions.

My funniest encounter was probably yesterday. A cadet friend of mine and I went up to the local mall to chill. We were sitting in the 'round' when a young boy (4 or 5) came up to me and asked "have you ever shot a gun?" I said yes, and explained to his mom that we only typically shoot (rather) harmless air rifles, which (if properly used) couldn't hurt anyone and are used for marksmanship, and that we were only cadets, and not regular service members. We had actually just gotten back from marksmanship training. The kid was satisfied, and wandered off.

So, what's your funniest 'Public Encounter'? How do you deal with the hard questions, in which the entire fate of their love/hate (I exaggerate. A bit.) of the Cadet Movement lies in your hands?


----------



## quadrapiper

Though there's no specific regulation to cover pre- or post-cadet-event wear of uniform, reason suggests that a cadet waiting for a ride, running an errand on the way home, or meeting for coffee with friends, need not change into civilian attire. As long as things stay professional, and there's no area-specific reason for cadets to keep a low profile, it's not something in need of restriction.

There will always be the fool misguided person that takes it too far, and decides to play dress-up, of course...


----------



## Peace

Its one thing to play dress up,  and another to go out of your way to hide who you are.

Im so far down the rabbit hole I dont think I would be able to seperate the uniform from my skin... in some places I cant.   

Just dont create a PR problem and if anything bad happens report it to your CIC officers.   Also ref being allowed, consult your units SOP in reguards to what is and isnt kosher.


----------



## RememberanceDay

Hey guys,
I, when I first received my uniform, asked what the policy about public wear is. Basically the Stores Officer said "don't create a ruckus, be respectful and don't go crazy." Really, I see nothing wrong in going to the mall to hang out with friends in work dress (our new and improved uniform). We were respectful, quiet and really undisturbing. I've gone many places in uniform, including grocery stores and restaurants (after training), and had next to no negative responses (only two, and those were reported.) 
So really, as long as you wear the uniform properly, and be respectful, then there should be no problems (in accordance with the corps/squad's rules).


----------



## fraserdw

I am not a Cadet and never been one.  I been in uniform 32 years.  Hanging out at malls is considered loitering which is illegal in all provinces (although not always enforced).  As a veteran and a professional soldier, if I saw you I would be disappointed in you as I would expect better.  That is my personal opinion.


----------



## Pusser

fraserdw said:
			
		

> I am not a Cadet and never been one.  I been in uniform 32 years.  Hanging out at malls is considered loitering which is illegal in all provinces (although not always enforced).  As a veteran and a professional soldier, if I saw you I would be disappointed in you as I would expect better.  That is my personal opinion.



The reason it's rarely enforced is that it's very difficult to determine the difference between loitering and being in the mall for a legitimate purpose.  Browsing through the shops (even if you don't buy anything), having something to eat or drink at the food court or even relaxing on one of the benches (which is what they are there for) are all legitimate activities at the mall.  The ones who get kicked out for loitering (which is most often the preferred course of action vice charges) are the ones who are there every day, never buying anything and who are usually causing problems.  

There is no reason anyone (cadet of CF) cannot wear a uniform while shopping at the mall or grocery store, as long as it's the appropriate uniform, properly worn and properly maintained.  Why should anyone have to change in a washroom to avoid appearing in public in uniform?  Why are people ashamed to be seen in uniform?  I'm not saying we should be in uniform all the time, but if it's more convenient for someone to wear a uniform for picking up groceries on the way home, then don't worry about it.  In fact, being seen in uniform in public can enhance the public's perception of the military.  If we're seen doing normal things then civilians can see that we are normal people too.


----------



## RememberanceDay

fraserdw said:
			
		

> I am not a Cadet and never been one.  I been in uniform 32 years.  Hanging out at malls is considered loitering which is illegal in all provinces (although not always enforced).  As a veteran and a professional soldier, if I saw you I would be disappointed in you as I would expect better.  That is my personal opinion.


By "Hanging out" I mean browsing the shops, maybe making small purchases (that time I had to pick up a pair of headphones), getting a drink and maybe a small meal at the food court. I apologize for not defining this earlier. On the subject of ANYONE being out in uniform, the other day at Costco (about 30 mins away from Borden), there were two officers in uniform. I noted that they were efficient and respectful, more so than many of the people around them.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

fraserdw said:
			
		

> I am not a Cadet and never been one.  I been in uniform 32 years.  Hanging out at malls is considered loitering which is illegal in all provinces (although not always enforced).  As a veteran and a professional soldier, if I saw you I would be disappointed in you as I would expect better.  That is my personal opinion.



He's a cadet. I could care less what he does in a cadet uniform. I personally spend as little time as possible in uniform (including on tour) but that is my personal opinion. I joined to fight wars not play dress up.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> He's a cadet. I could care less what he does in a cadet uniform. I personally spend as little time as possible in uniform (including on tour) but that is my personal opinion. I joined to fight wars not play dress up.



You might wish to reread stuff like CFDS, NCM 2020 etc. I don't believe it says anywhere in the documentation that we are mandated to "fight wars". If you see your uniform in public as "playing dress up", I question your motives for joining the CF in the first place. 

This may raise a few eyebrows but I have dedicated too much of my life NOT to be proud of wearing my uniform in public. I don't do it regularly but if a stop for gas, groceries, whatever sees me in uniform, I don't stick my nose in the air, but do stand a little 'taller' than if I were in civis.

As someone said earlier...My opinion.


----------



## Pusser

:goodpost:

Very often, it's the uniform that marks one of the key differences between the honourable profession of arms and the mercenary rabble.


----------



## rmc_wannabe

I do think that part of the reason the Canadian population was so alienated from the military for the longest time was the lack of uniformed personnel walking around every day life. We were no longer identifiable members of society. So long as pers are not making jackasses of themselves I see nothing wrong with it IMHO.


----------



## paffomaybe

Wearing the uniform in public (in accordance with regs of course) is an important Public Affairs function (it ain't just for paffos anymore ).  How many times have members complained about a fundamental disconnect between the military with the rest of the pop?  A visible presence in public (especially by reservists) is an important reminder to the public that the CF is ultimately drawn from and part of society.

(On the OPs note, this is the only one of these memes I found remotely interesting or funny

Sh** Civilians Say to Veterans:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Esni1RbwU


----------



## Jed

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> I do think that part of the reason the Canadian population was so alienated from the military for the longest time was the lack of uniformed personnel walking around every day life. We were no longer identifiable members of society. So long as pers are not making jackasses of themselves I see nothing wrong with it IMHO.



That is  what I observed when I was wearing the uniform.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

I think since our participation in Afghanistan (and I bow before those who have served there as I have not), the public is not only more engaged but want to know what we do. I have now lost count the number of times I have had people come up, shake my hand and say "Thank You" or offer to buy me a cup of coffee. Someone went so far as to pay for a breakfast my wife and I had at the Ottawa airport once.
I like what you said sprl. For years, we complained that the public didn't know who we were...and then many complained when we 'had to' wear uniforms to work. Amazing how we have come full circle. I actually had a PO2 at my previous job who requested to wear 3Bs vice NCDs at work (and he travelled to/from in uniform). 

That said, nothing pisses me off more than seeing some clown wondering through a store looking like shit. When I am in uniform, it is not an issue (though my wife used to get embarrassed, now she just says "Oh Oh" and stands back to 'watch') but if I am in civis too, I find some of the response are quite colourful. If I get a name (which I have), I look them up in OUTLOOK and send an email to their Unit CWO/CPO. The majority of the time (oddly enough), they are Officers. (in Ottawa anyway)


----------



## Robert0288

> The majority of the time (oddly enough), they are Officers. (in Ottawa anyway)



Agreed.  :facepalm:


----------



## 2010newbie

As an Officer Cadet attending civilian university, I was instructed to wear my uniform (combats or DEU's) to school once in a while. I usually end up wearing it for the first day of classes and once a month or so thereafter. I have never had an issue and I usually have people asking me how to apply, how ROTP works, and I've even met some reservists that happen to go to the university as well. I think being in view of the public, especially in an area that is not used to seeing people in uniform frequently (like the GTA), is important because it can make people feel a little more connected to the CF, rather than seeing it as some far off faceless entity.


----------



## paffomaybe

Much more common in the States, which makes sense as the service makes up a larger proportion of the general population (though less so after the AVF became the norm).  Always endearing to see people at the airport saying things like "be careful" and "you take care, now" to a passing soldier in transit.


----------



## GnyHwy

I was in Wainwright training in the early 90s.  We were let free for the weekend and we were allowed to Lloydminster for the day (woo hoo), but we had to wear our uniforms.

I was approached by a little boy about 10 yrs old.  He asked me "Are you in the Army"?

I replied "yes".

Little boy - " I didn't know Lloydminster had an Army".

Me - "No, I am in the Canadian Army"

The little boy, with an amazed look on his face replied " YOUR IN THE CANAAAADIAAAAAN ARMY?  AWWWWWESOOOOME"!


----------



## gun runner

As a CIC in a small town, as in most small towns with cadet activities, we are sometimes the only visible CF members that people will see. My town has a PRes unit in town, and they are very visible most days. People are proud to have a CF unit here, and they support all activities that the two cadet units we have do. My two cents.  :yellow:


----------



## dogger1936

I was 18 and told to report to battle school in CF after my Christmas leave. New years eve I was waiting at a friends place to go to the airport in my then bland blank DEU. A drunk came up and began to tell me how he would never quit drinking (explaining how he had his drinking well in control) and tried to give me money for the poor. It was at that point it all came together and I told the man I was military and not a member of the Sally ann.


----------



## Brasidas

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I was 18 and told to report to battle school in CF after my Christmas leave. New years eve I was waiting at a friends place to go to the airport in my then bland blank DEU. A drunk came up and began to tell me how he would never quit drinking (explaining how he had his drinking well in control) and tried to give me money for the poor. It was at that point it all came together and I told the man I was military and not a member of the Sally ann.



After a mess dinner, a crowd went out for a drink and the sergeant major alone was denied entry. On asking what the problem was, the doorman replied that while they were pretty full, the army guys could come in. The bellboy could not. The sergeant major, of course, was the only one in mess dress.


----------



## dogger1936

Brasidas said:
			
		

> After a mess dinner, a crowd went out for a drink and the sergeant major alone was denied entry. On asking what the problem was, the doorman replied that while they were pretty full, the army guys could come in. The bellboy could not. The sergeant major, of course, was the only one in mess dress.



Outstanding! I hope someone said "the bell boy's with me" ;D


----------



## observor 69

Happened to be in Niagara Falls many years ago, in uniform, and was asked what time did the lights come on for the Falls.


----------



## Cui

Wasn't the guy who was slashed in Nanaimo in uniform at the time? I guess sometimes being in uniform would make you a target to some left-wing nutcases.


----------



## Melbatoast

Cui said:
			
		

> Wasn't the guy who was slashed in Nanaimo in uniform at the time? I guess sometimes being in uniform would make you a target to some left-wing nutcases.



The guy in Nanaimo was almost certainly slashed by a meth/crackhead who probably has not got a well articulated political position. There aren't too many "left wing nutcases" in that city anyhow.  I'm a left wing nutcase myself and like others of my ilk prefer Victoria, where I regularly wear my uniform in public.  I have never had any sort of problem.


----------



## q_1966

People give you a top gun salute, followed by ridiculous comments. It's the main reason I didn't wear my uniform in Cadets or the Military too often. 



			
				Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> That said, nothing pisses me off more than seeing some clown wondering through a store looking like shit. When I am in uniform, it is not an issue (though my wife used to get embarrassed, now she just says "Oh Oh" and stands back to 'watch') but if I am in civis too, I find some of the response are quite colourful. If I get a name (which I have), I look them up in OUTLOOK and send an email to their Unit CWO/CPO. The majority of the time (oddly enough), they are Officers. (in Ottawa anyway)



While in uniform, keep your dress and deportment and conduct (comments) in check, there is always someone who will report it and you won't even notice the guy, followed by getting called into the office by your supervisor. 

In the military you screw up, correct it, move on. If someone doesn't like you, do you get posted to a different unit? No, you work together and make the best of it.
Civilian side, things are much more petty...
If the "Client" doesn't like you, (even if your doing your job properly) you get sent somewhere else.

Regardless of career directions (civilian or military), keep your dress & deportment, including what you say in check. It will help prepare you for entering the workforce.


----------



## catalyst

and you never know who is watching - even in Europe.  Was at a Ceremony this evening and saw an officer (and cadets) in  civis, and headdress......saluting.


----------



## q_1966

ArmySailor said:
			
		

> and you never know who is watching - even in Europe.  Was at a Ceremony this evening and saw an officer (and cadets) in  civis, and headdress......saluting.



Did you quietly take the Officer aside and correct him/her?


----------



## Teeps74

sprl said:
			
		

> Wearing the uniform in public (in accordance with regs of course) is an important Public Affairs function (it ain't just for paffos anymore ).  How many times have members complained about a fundamental disconnect between the military with the rest of the pop?  A visible presence in public (especially by reservists) is an important reminder to the public that the CF is ultimately drawn from and part of society.
> 
> (On the OPs note, this is the only one of these memes I found remotely interesting or funny
> 
> Sh** Civilians Say to Veterans:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Esni1RbwU



For those of us that enjoy at least a decent frozen budget, as opposed to a shrinking budget... We NEED civilian buy in that we are worth it. Sometimes it truly is as simple as being out in uniform for everyone see see us (so long as our dress and deportment are above board).

The citizens need to know we are there, and more importantly, that we are one of them... Not some rabid dog to be chained in the back yard and fed table scraps.


----------



## lethalLemon

ArmySailor said:
			
		

> and you never know who is watching - even in Europe.  Was at a Ceremony this evening and saw an officer (and cadets) in  civis, and headdress......saluting.



Oh my... what tragedy...  :facepalm:


----------



## Tank Troll

I remember (as many on here do )when we were not allowed to stop for anything in uniform unless we were in DEUs (CFs at the time) Then things lightend up a bit and we could stop for gas or go to a convenient store to pick up quick items.  It is much better now, any one that rush to get out of their uniform or tries to wear it as little as possible then you really should rethink your career choice.  On the same note I HATE seeing people out in stores pumping gas, or wandering around with out their head dress on. it really erks the hell out of me


----------



## Cui

ArmySailor said:
			
		

> and you never know who is watching - even in Europe.  Was at a Ceremony this evening and saw an officer (and cadets) in  civis, and headdress......saluting.



Wow, really? Did you happen to take any pictures?


----------



## catalyst

lethalLemon said:
			
		

> Oh my... what tragedy...  :facepalm:



I know I should write my MP! call the newsmedia! :nod:

Hahaha not really -  it amused me for a bit, and I shook my head.


----------



## Snaketnk

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> For those of us that enjoy at least a decent frozen budget, as opposed to a shrinking budget... We NEED civilian buy in that we are worth it. Sometimes it truly is as simple as being out in uniform for everyone see see us (so long as our dress and deportment are above board).
> 
> The citizens need to know we are there, and more importantly, that we are one of them... Not some rabid dog to be chained in the back yard and fed table scraps.



You just described me. I do everything I can do not wear my uniform in public. You know why? Because in most places where the majority of full time pers are employed, there is a huge military population with a well deserved bad reputation. When people see someone in uniform, but off duty, they immediately judge you. As a single person who tries to be socially active, the last thing I need to be known as is "an army guy" because people expect me to abuse women and break into push up competitions in public.  As far as I'm concerned unless it's an urgent errand or totally "on the way home from work" anyone I see in uniform is just desperate for attention.

To tell me I'm not proud of what I've done and what I do is an insult to me. Just because I don't wander around in public smugly wearing my uniform as if I'm showing off doesn't mean I'm not proud of it. 90% of the people I see walking around in uniform are no-hooks that are just out of/in training who think they're the coolest people in the world, and they'll wander around the mall for hours dressed like that. 

18 year old douche bags wearing aviators in uniform aren't going to win over the public. Nice parades and family days and an official public presence will.


----------



## George Wallace

Snaketnk said:
			
		

> You just described me. I do everything I can do not wear my uniform in public. You know why? Because in most places where the majority of full time pers are employed, there is a huge military population with a well deserved bad reputation. When people see someone in uniform, but off duty, they immediately judge you. As a single person who tries to be socially active, the last thing I need to be known as is "an army guy" because people expect me to abuse women and break into push up competitions in public.  As far as I'm concerned unless it's an urgent errand or totally "on the way home from work" anyone I see in uniform is just desperate for attention.
> 
> To tell me I'm not proud of what I've done and what I do is an insult to me. Just because I don't wander around in public smugly wearing my uniform as if I'm showing off doesn't mean I'm not proud of it. 90% of the people I see walking around in uniform are no-hooks that are just out of/in training who think they're the coolest people in the world, and they'll wander around the mall for hours dressed like that.
> 
> 18 year old douche bags wearing aviators in uniform aren't going to win over the public. Nice parades and family days and an official public presence will.



I think we have covered both extremes here.  One the person who "over extends their 'stops' on the way from work" and the other who can't get home fast enough to get out of uniform.  I see no problem with the middle ground: the 'quick stop' enroute to do some Pers Admin; not the go home, pick up the wife and kids and go to Walmart (which I have seen.........adds to those Walmart People sites   :  )......


----------



## krustyrl

> I see no problem with the middle ground: the 'quick stop' enroute to do some Pers Admin; not the go home, pick up the wife and kids and go to Walmart (which I have seen.........adds to those Walmart People sites   :  )......




Like          :+1:


----------



## Towards_the_gap

I am with snaketnk on this, and was what I was saying earlier in the thread. I do not feel some great rush of pride when I put on the uniform, for it is just that, a set of clothing I wear to work. When told I am to wear DEU's my reaction is not much different, except for a little increased annoyance at having to wear something uncomfortable so generals and the like can puff their chests out a little bit more. 

If anything, I also go out of my way to not wear uniform in public because I find the 'thanks for what you do, let me buy you coffee'-thing rather embarrassing. I do not need thanks for what I do, that is what my paycheque is for, but I do realise it actually makes the person thanking me feel better about themselves rather than make me feel better. 

To suggest that I am not suited for this occupation because I feel this way is really quite idiotic. Do you know what I have done thus far in my career? Probably not......

Also, to those harking on about dress and deportment, sure, agreed, look smart. But I also ask, would your average civvy really notice a soldier with boots untidily bloused or hair touching his ears? No, they see the uniform and think 'soldier', not 'soldier who looks a bit scruffy'. I am not condoning this, just posing the question.


----------



## Robert0288

> Also, to those harking on about dress and deportment, sure, agreed, look smart. But I also ask, would your average civvy really notice a soldier with boots untidily bloused or hair touching his ears? No, they see the uniform and think 'soldier', not 'soldier who looks a bit scruffy'. I am not condoning this, just posing the question.



I think they would notice, especially if the soldier in question was standing beside somone who did look good.  They might be civies but even the dumbest 5 year old can play 'one of these things is not like the other'.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I am with snaketnk on this, and was what I was saying earlier in the thread. I do not feel some great rush of pride when I put on the uniform, for it is just that, a set of clothing I wear to work. When told I am to wear DEU's my reaction is not much different, except for a little increased annoyance at having to wear something uncomfortable so generals and the like can puff their chests out a little bit more.
> 
> If anything, I also go out of my way to not wear uniform in public because I find the 'thanks for what you do, let me buy you coffee'-thing rather embarrassing. I do not need thanks for what I do, that is what my paycheque is for, but I do realise it actually makes the person thanking me feel better about themselves rather than make me feel better.
> 
> To suggest that I am not suited for this occupation because I feel this way is really quite idiotic. Do you know what I have done thus far in my career? Probably not......
> 
> Also, to those harking on about dress and deportment, sure, agreed, look smart. But I also ask, would your average civvy really notice a soldier with boots untidily bloused or hair touching his ears? No, they see the uniform and think 'soldier', not 'soldier who looks a bit scruffy'. I am not condoning this, just posing the question.



I understand what you are saying and in an earlier post, I had mentioned 'picking someone up'. I am talking more of the guy walking through the Mall, winter parka undone, hands in his pocket, talking on a cell phone. Depending on severity, situation and surroundings, I may 'let it go' and stew over it!

As for those in communities where the uniform may invoke a bad image because of a few a**holes, re-muster, join the Navy and wear a sailor suit - Everyone loves a sailor!


----------



## Burrows

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> I am talking more of the guy walking through the Mall, winter parka undone, hands in his pocket, talking on a cell phone.


  I see you've been to the Rideau Centre.  >


----------



## Journeyman

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> When told I am to wear DEU's my reaction is not much different, except for a little increased annoyance at having to wear something uncomfortable so generals and the like can puff their chests out a little bit more.


I can't believe I'm weighing-in on a topic as retarded as 'if you wear your uniform, you must be a no-hook Pte showing off.'   :not-again:

I'm certainly not a parade square soldier, but you must hang out with a lot more Generals in the 2CER lines if the only time you're in DEUs is so that "generals and the like can puff their chests out."  :


And if your DEU is that uncomfortable, _one_ option is to cash in some Logistik Unicorp points and get one that fits.


----------



## Maxadia

Snaketnk said:
			
		

> You just described me. I do everything I can do not wear my uniform in public. You know why? Because in most places where the majority of full time pers are employed, there is a huge military population with a well deserved bad reputation. When people see someone in uniform, but off duty, they immediately judge you. As a single person who tries to be socially active, the last thing I need to be known as is "an army guy" because people expect me to abuse women and break into push up competitions in public.  As far as I'm concerned unless it's an urgent errand or totally "on the way home from work" anyone I see in uniform is just desperate for attention.



I would counter that the above would be a good reason to be seen in uniform in public....to show that you're not the stereotypical army guy they think you are.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Kyle Burrows said:
			
		

> I see you've been to the Rideau Centre.  >



I actually wore the monicker "The NCR shuttle: Dress Nazi" for a short period too!!


----------



## Strike

For those who go out of their way to avoid wearing the uniform in public because they don't want the attention or the thanks or whatever, you need to remember that it's not all about you.  That person thanking you is thanking the CF as a whole, and you are a reflection of that whole.

As for snake's comment of family days and parades doing more for keeping us in the public eye, I would have to disagree.  These events, although good in getting us and the community together, are still on a limited scale and only target people who already support the CF.  By going out and getting your groceries or gas on the way home from work while still in uniform, you show those people who would never attend any of these events that you are a member of the community and there is nothing to be afraid of.

A reminder to those of you based in high population centres - there is probably also a high population of immigrants who come from countries where the military is not to be trusted.  Running little errands over lunch or on the way home gives them a chance to interact with the CF while they carry out their everyday tasks and may help them understand that we are NOT those militaries.

Finally, you all realize that this thread is in the cadet/CIC forum right?  And the OP was asking about wearing a cadet uniform in public?


----------



## George Wallace

Strike said:
			
		

> Finally, you all realize that this thread is in the cadet/CIC forum right?  And the OP was asking about wearing a cadet uniform in public?



Opps!    :-[


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Ooops II!
That said, I think the OP can take some pointers from comments here and apply them to cadets. I only worked a short time as a CLO but if I recall, their dress instructions are an extension of the Canadian Forces Dress Instructions...No?


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I can't believe I'm weighing-in on a topic as retarded as 'if you wear your uniform, you must be a no-hook Pte showing off.'   :not-again:
> 
> I'm certainly not a parade square soldier, but you must hang out with a lot more Generals in the 2CER lines if the only time you're in DEUs is so that "generals and the like can puff their chests out."  :
> 
> 
> And if your DEU is that uncomfortable, _one_ option is to cash in some Logistik Unicorp points and get one that fits.



Oh they fit all right, it's just that given a lazy saturday morning, lovely sunny day, wife took kids away for weekend, my absolute last choice of comfortable relaxing wear would be DEU's. If they were made of better material maybe they would be less so, but the amount of polyester in them I might as well be wearing saran-wrap.

But, as recently pointed out, this is the cadet forum, about cadet uniforms. Wear away young jedis, just don't slouch around looking like or show up at a klan rally and you will be alright. This is also the internet, and therefore pointless, but it is march break and I have the time on my hands.


----------



## RememberanceDay

Hey, thanks for getting back on track..... 8)

To be totally honest, as long as we are presentable and courteous, we should be fine in uniforms. To date, I have worn STU's, C-1 and PT gear, along with weekend training gear in public. I don't rush home to change, nor do I put on my uniform just to go some where other than cadets. (Except for Nov. 11, when we are asked to wear our C-1s to school/ceremony.) I know some who will bring a change of clothes for after, I might too, if I'm going to a nice supper, or just going to be out a lot and don't want to wear my boots.

As for pride, I sometimes do feel a sense of pride, in myself, my corp and my country, when wearing my uniform. Nov. 11, again, is a perfect example. A personal moment for me, though, is on the drill team, per say, when we execute our brand-new silent routine perfectly, that's an awesome feeling.


----------



## q_1966

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Oh they fit all right, it's just that given a lazy saturday morning, lovely sunny day, wife took kids away for weekend, my absolute last choice of comfortable relaxing wear would be DEU's. If they were made of better material maybe they would be less so, but the amount of polyester in them I might as well be wearing saran-wrap.



It is more difficult to maintain the cadet uniform, less almost no wool in the pants makes it difficult to crease, your wearing your dress uniform every week, sewing your badges on by hand (good skill to have). In the CF, I wore my DEU's probably only 3 times a year, spent the rest of the time in Combats / NCD's / Cooks whites.


----------



## armyvern

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> It is more difficult to maintain the cadet uniform, less almost no wool in the pants makes it difficult to crease, your wearing your dress uniform every week, sewing your badges on by hand (good skill to have).        I wore my CF's maybe 3 times a year.



I'm pretty sure that the current cadet "dress" (??) uniform is still made out of the same material it was when I wore it both as a cadet and when I wore the same material in our old CF work dress. Hard to iron?? That's a first.


----------



## q_1966

It is harder to get a razor sharp crease out of them than the wool DEU pants, its like ironing the NCD pants.
Our CF uniform is tailored, while the Cadet Uniform is not, so there is alot more adjusting. The drape can only truly be fixed by good tailoring.


----------



## Rheostatic

The material changed around 2000-2001. More synthetic and indeed harder to keep a crease.


----------



## armyvern

Recycled pop bottle. Way to stay green then!!  >


----------



## Journeyman

Rheostatic said:
			
		

> The material changed around 2000-2001. More synthetic and indeed harder to keep a crease.


Turn them inside out, and run a bar of soap down the inside of the crease -- not a lot, just a line -- then turn them right-side-out and iron.


----------



## q_1966

I've tried the old soap, masking tape etc. didn't like using it, or starch on the shirts. Ironing the cooks whites everyday for work, gets you pretty good with an Iron. For the polyester pants, should of had the tailor stitch in the crease.


----------



## sapperboysen

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Turn them inside out, and run a bar of soap down the inside of the crease -- not a lot, just a line -- then turn them right-side-out and iron.



The problem I found when I tried this with my cadet uniform, was that the soap would bleed through and leave a white trace on the pant. Starch was also no good as it made the pants shiny. The best solution I found was lots of water, steam, and pressure. It's slightly more difficult then ironing my DEU, but not much. The problem I always found was trying to deal with all the excess material that has to be tucked away in the back.


----------



## RememberanceDay

Through cadets and regular sewing, I've become an old hand at it. I have tailored my own uniform (nipping in at the waist, out at the hips for trousers, out in  the but, in at the waist for gunshirts, ect....), and sometimes offer it at my corp depending on the time I have.


----------



## my72jeep

RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> Through cadets and regular sewing, I've become an old hand at it. I have tailored my own uniform (nipping in at the waist, out at the hips for trousers, out in  the but, in at the waist for gunshirts, ect....), and sometimes offer it at my corp depending on the time I have.



As A Commanding Officer and a Father of a Daughter this post is wrong on so many levels.


----------



## armyvern

my72jeep said:
			
		

> As A Commanding Officer and a Father of a Daughter this post is wrong on so many levels.



No worries; I can cook too!! Just took the fresh baked brotchen out of my oven and spent last week sewing up the daughter's prom dress. She too can cook, sew, clean and, as an added bonus, pack a mean punch.  ;D


----------



## my72jeep

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> No worries; I can cook too!! Just took the fresh baked brotchen out of my oven and spent last week sewing up the daughter's prom dress. She too can cook, sew, clean and, as an added bonus, pack a mean punch.  ;D


Not what I meant and you know it.


----------



## armyvern

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Not what I meant and you know it.



Then what does being the father of a daughter have to do with it? I am the mother of a daughter. There's nothing wrong or improper in her knowing how to do, or actually doing, any of these things.

Note that I am also the mother of a son; he too can do all of these things. And, the father of that boy would tell you there's nothing wrong with his knowing how to do so either.


----------



## my72jeep

1. a cadet making alterations to the uniform mybe because it doesn't fit. hits to the CO in me.
2. a female cadet making alterations to the uniform maybe because it doesn't fit or to make it fit tighter.hits the father in me.


----------



## armyvern

my72jeep said:
			
		

> 1. a cadet making alterations to the uniform mybe because it doesn't fit. hits to the CO in me.
> 2. a female cadet making alterations to the uniform maybe because it doesn't fit or to make it fit tighter.hits the father in me.



#1 is fine and that should hit the CO in you ... or ... the Sup Tech in me.

But, there is no evidence that #2 is ocurring or that it was even inferred in the sense of "making it tighter".  Sad fact is, for girls ... especially ones with larger butts and smaller waists / big shoulders with smaller chests ... off the rack garments provided by the CF just don't fit us properly. Every set of DEU pants that I've been issued has to be taken in at said waist else I could shove both arms in the gap there while they'd fit my butt perfectly. My shirts are huge in the chest in order to fit my shoulders. It's a fact of life that most girls live with while most boys don't. 

Ever gone jean shopping with your wife? I have yet to find a pair that fits me properly.


----------



## RememberanceDay

my72jeep said:
			
		

> 2. a female cadet making alterations to the uniform maybe because it doesn't fit or to make it fit tighter.hits the father in me.



It doesn't fit right, and I altered it to fit right. There's another thread about this...

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102708.0.html

I wouldn't alter it to make it tighter though... I cut some material and hemmed the bottom of the gunshirt, to make it shorter, but it was hanging around my knees. I brought it up to mid-thigh. Less to tuck in. Also, the pants are designed for guys straight-ish bodies, not the female's curves. It just didn't fit right. Now it's as comfortable as can be, and looks the exact same as all the others. Gunshirts have no give in the chest, let it out, tuck the wait in, equals less to belt up, less bulk, less heat, and less chance of passing out on parade.

Also, on offering the same services to the other females, I do the same thing. Less bulk, fits proper, more comfortable. Once the Cadet program comes out with either a tailoring service, or a uniform line for females (see link), I will continue with it.

EDIT: To add afterthought...  :facepalm:


----------



## armyvern

RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> It doesn't fit right, and I altered it to fit right. There's another thread about this...
> 
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102708.0.html
> 
> I wouldn't alter it to make it tighter though... I cut some material and hemmed the bottom of the gunshirt, to make it shorter, but it was hanging around my knees. I brought it up to mid-thigh. Less to tuck in. Also, the pants are designed for guys straight-ish bodies, not the female's curves. It just didn't fit right. Now it's as comfortable as can be, and looks the exact same as all the others. Gunshirts have no give in the chest, let it out, tuck the wait in, equals less to belt up, less bulk, less heat, and less chance of passing out on parade.



I understand exactly where you are coming from. Been there, still there, and still doing it.  :-\


----------



## aesop081

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Everyone loves a sailor!



Everyone, except the Navy.

The RCN hates its sailors. It's the only possible explanation.


----------



## q_1966

I wish that the Cadet program would do away with its 70's style collars on the tunic.


----------



## RememberanceDay

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> I wish that the Cadet program would do away with its 70's style collars on the tunic.



Well, we use STU's for the most part now, save CD's... I like the collars...


----------



## my72jeep

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> #1 is fine and that should hit the CO in you ... or ... the Sup Tech in me.
> 
> But, there is no evidence that #2 is ocurring or that it was even inferred in the sense of "making it tighter".  Sad fact is, for girls ... especially ones with larger butts and smaller waists / big shoulders with smaller chests ... off the rack garments provided by the CF just don't fit us properly. Every set of DEU pants that I've been issued has to be taken in at said waist else I could shove both arms in the gap there while they'd fit my butt perfectly. My shirts are huge in the chest in order to fit my shoulders. It's a fact of life that most girls live with while most boys don't.
> 
> Ever gone jean shopping with your wife? I have yet to find a pair that fits me properly.


Vern I do, I really do understand, but she is my first and only girl and she starts school this year and the 5 yo down the street is showing intrest in her. I'm not sure I'm ready for her to start modifying her clothes yet.


----------



## armyvern

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Vern I do, I really do understand, but she is my first and only girl and she starts school this year and the 5 yo down the street is showing intrest in her. I'm not sure I'm ready for her to start modifying her clothes yet.



The 5 YO; ready your shotgun - it gets worse with age!! No worries yet though as she's only at the "he has germs" stage.


----------



## my72jeep

RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> It doesn't fit right, and I altered it to fit right. There's another thread about this...
> 
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102708.0.html
> 
> I wouldn't alter it to make it tighter though... I cut some material and hemmed the bottom of the gunshirt, to make it shorter, but it was hanging around my knees. I brought it up to mid-thigh. Less to tuck in. Also, the pants are designed for guys straight-ish bodies, not the female's curves. It just didn't fit right. Now it's as comfortable as can be, and looks the exact same as all the others. Gunshirts have no give in the chest, let it out, tuck the wait in, equals less to belt up, less bulk, less heat, and less chance of passing out on parade.
> 
> Also, on offering the same services to the other females, I do the same thing. Less bulk, fits proper, more comfortable. Once the Cadet program comes out with either a tailoring service, or a uniform line for females (see link), I will continue with it.
> 
> EDIT: To add afterthought...  :facepalm:


Sorry I may have accused you of doing something you have not. back in my cadet days 78-84 it was common for the female's to tighten the uniform.


----------



## q_1966

RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> Well, we use STU's for the most part now, save CD's... I like the collars...



http://www.rcsccharwood.com/uploads/9/0/2/2/9022035/stu_guidance_-_sep_2011_-_en_-_final.pdf

So NCD's are STU's?, CD's is the Cadet Dress Uniform?

Do you wear the "STU" on regular parade nights or only on excercise's


----------



## RememberanceDay

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Vern I do, I really do understand, but she is my first and only girl and she starts school this year and the 5 yo down the street is showing intrest in her. I'm not sure I'm ready for her to start modifying her clothes yet.



Sure it's not my little brother? LOL, but I don't blame you for being protective. My father is too, and I love him for it.... He actually (jokingly) said to my boyfriend (first, only, and now ex) that he would get out MY gun.... (Daisy 853c).


----------



## q_1966

RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> Sure it's not my little brother? LOL, but I don't blame you for being protective. My father is too, and I love him for it.... He actually (jokingly) said to my boyfriend (first, only, and now ex) that he would get out MY gun.... (Daisy 853c).



and shoot him in the eye at point blank range, strike his face with the butt of the rifle?


----------



## RememberanceDay

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> and shoot him in the eye at point blank range, strike his face with the butt of the rifle?



Precisely.


----------



## Pusser

The new material used for cadet uniforms is the same cotton/poly blend used for the white Navy trousers.  Continued pressing with a steam iron (i.e. several weeks worth of daily wear) will eventually cause a razor sharp crease to form.  It will happen.  It just takes awhile.  Another trick is to take some *brown* paper towel (the standard found in most CF washrooms), soak it in water, wring it out and use it as a pressing cloth.  It has a starch-like effect on polyester (notwithstanding that regular spray starch is useless on that stuff).

When I was a cadet, a lot of us used to alter our uniforms to get a better fit.  I will admit that the guys had an easier time of it, but we still had problems.  My biggest complaint was that the silly belt was too high.  I used to cut it off (they were sewn on back then) and wear a white belt instead (my position in the corps had me wearing a white belt anyway).


----------



## William Hoskins

I am a Sgt. at my local cadet corps and I just tell the younger kids, don't try to shortcut your uniform, because #1 you are to young to know what your doing and get away with it, and #2 Your uniform can be just as good if you take some time away from the TVs and computers and spend a few minutes a night touching up your uniform, Just 10 Min's can make a big difference.


----------



## Cui

William Hoskins said:
			
		

> I am a Sgt. at my local cadet corps and I just tell the younger kids, don't try to shortcut your uniform, because #1 you are to young to know what your doing and get away with it, and #2 Your uniform can be just as good if you take some time away from the TVs and computers and spend a few minutes a night touching up your uniform, Just 10 Min's can make a big difference.



I think I ran out of breath just reading this in my head.


----------



## RememberanceDay

William Hoskins said:
			
		

> I am a Sgt. at my local cadet corps and I just tell the younger kids, don't try to shortcut your uniform, because #1 you are to young to know what your doing and get away with it, and #2 Your uniform can be just as good if you take some time away from the TVs and computers and spend a few minutes a night touching up your uniform, Just 10 Min's can make a big difference.



Can you clarify this? _"You're too young to know what you're doing"_, and then you contradict yourself (or so it seems) with _Your uniform can be just as good if you take some time away from the TVs and computers and spend a few minutes a night touching up your uniform, Just 10 Min's can make a big difference._

It's like you're telling them "don't do your uniform.", and then telling them to take ten minutes a night.... Not understanding this.


----------



## Danjanou

RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> Can you clarify this? _"You're too young to know what you're doing"_, and then you contradict yourself (or so it seems) with _Your uniform can be just as good if you take some time away from the TVs and computers and spend a few minutes a night touching up your uniform, Just 10 Min's can make a big difference._
> 
> It's like you're telling them "don't do your uniform.", and then telling them to take ten minutes a night.... Not understanding this.




Good, glad I wasn''t the only one who was confused. I thought I was having another seniors moment there. :-[


----------



## Loachman

Perhaps if there'd been proper sentence structure, including a period or two in there, you would have been able to breathe properly and your brain would not have been so oxygen-deprived by the time that you got to the end.

You did make it to the end, right?

But no - regular breathing didn't help me to understand either.

And I'll not even mention the incorrect use of "your" instead of "you're" (a contraction of "you are"), which always causes me to consume oxygen at an increased rate.


----------



## Journeyman

Loachman said:
			
		

> And I'll not even mention the incorrect use of "your" instead of "you're"....









   ;D


----------



## The Bread Guy

Pusser said:
			
		

> .... Another trick is to take some *brown* (the standard found in most CF washrooms), soak it in water, wring it out and use it as a pressing cloth.  It has a starch-like effect on polyester (notwithstanding that regular spray starch is useless on that stuff) ....


I hope you're talking about brown paper towels, here, because, well, anything else brown you might find in most CF washrooms, well, wouldn't do such a great job....


----------



## William Hoskins

What I mean is that they should'nt try short cutting on their uniform. Just spending the time working on it is enough.


----------



## William Hoskins

And I apologize for the improper use of punctuation.


----------



## Pusser

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I hope you're talking about brown paper towels, here, because, well, anything else brown you might find in most CF washrooms, well, wouldn't do such a great job....



Right you are.  Fixed that.


----------



## Pusser

William Hoskins said:
			
		

> What I mean is that they should'nt try short cutting on their uniform. Just spending the time working on it is enough.



Re-read what you have written here. You are implying that a short-cut would actually take longer and be more work than doing it properly, but that's not what you mean.


----------



## William Hoskins

I mean when they use stuff like liquid shoe polish on their boots for example, the polish is going to crack causing them to have to do more work in the long run. So the short cut caused them to do more work than it would have taken to do it properly.


----------



## Scott

Please make it stop...

 :grouphug:


----------



## Pusser

William Hoskins said:
			
		

> I mean when they use stuff like liquid shoe polish on their boots for example, the polish is going to crack causing them to have to do more work in the long run. So the short cut caused them to do more work than it would have taken to do it properly.



I understand what your trying to say.  You're just not saying it very well.

I'm not trying to be a d**k, but communication, particularly written communication, is an important military skill.  You need some practice.  I realize that you're only 15, but it's not too soon to learn to write properly.  Good writing is not as simple as writing down what you think you would say under the circumstances.  It's a little more complex than that.  We use, grammar, spelling, *syntax* (seemingly your biggest difficulty) and punctuation to express ourselves in order to be understood.  You can get books on these things, or talk to your English teacher.  I can also suggest reading actual, well-written books.  If you read enough good writing, it eventually rubs off.


----------



## q_1966

Pusser said:
			
		

> The new material used for cadet uniforms is the same cotton/poly blend used for the white Navy trousers.  Continued pressing with a steam iron (i.e. several weeks worth of daily wear) will eventually cause a razor sharp crease to form.  It will happen.  It just takes awhile.  Another trick is to take some *brown* paper towel (the standard found in most CF washrooms), soak it in water, wring it out and use it as a pressing cloth.  It has a starch-like effect on polyester (notwithstanding that regular spray starch is useless on that stuff).
> 
> When I was a cadet, a lot of us used to alter our uniforms to get a better fit.  I will admit that the guys had an easier time of it, but we still had problems.  My biggest complaint was that the silly belt was too high.  I used to cut it off (they were sewn on back then) and wear a white belt instead (my position in the corps had me wearing a white belt anyway).



Ok those type of pants are easier to crease, at least if they are the same as the cooks white pants...are they the same pants?

I wore the old tunic (made in the 80's) with the half belt this was 2002-2005, it was actually green, compared to the new ones with the full belt that are almost black in comparison.


----------



## RememberanceDay

Pusser said:
			
		

> I understand what your trying to say.  You're just not saying it very well.
> 
> I'm not trying to be a d**k, but communication, particularly written communication, is an important military skill.  You need some practice.  I realize that you're only 15, but it's not too soon to learn to write properly.  Good writing is not as simple as writing down what you think you would say under the circumstances.  It's a little more complex than that.  We use, grammar, spelling, *syntax* (seemingly your biggest difficulty) and punctuation to express ourselves in order to be understood.  You can get books on these things, or talk to your English teacher.  I can also suggest reading actual, well-written books.  If you read enough good writing, it eventually rubs off.



Amen to that!


William, while I don't agree with short cuts (I learned the hard way with the liquid boot polish -_- ), it is important that they are taught how to take care of their uniform. I didn't, when I first joined, and couldn't find any information, so I also learned the hard way on a lot of stuff.

Also, I am fourteen years old. Please do not take this as me being a grammar bitch Nazi, but if you'll notice the difference in our grammar, it is a pretty large gap. I NEVER wrote until four-odd years ago. I could, but I didn't. I've been reading since one, so, take note. Reading does work.


----------



## William Hoskins

Thank you for the understanding, writing has never been a strong point of mine, but it is something I am working on.


----------



## RememberanceDay

William Hoskins said:
			
		

> Thank you for the understanding, writing has never been a strong point of mine, but its is something I am working on.




Glad to hear it.


----------



## Pusser

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> Ok those type of pants are easier to crease, at least if they are the same as the cooks white pants...are they the same pants?
> 
> I wore the old tunic (made in the 80's) with the half belt this was 2002-2005, it was actually green, compared to the new ones with the full belt that are almost black in comparison.



They're not the same as cooks' whites.  You could never use the cadet trousers (or the Navy dress whites for that matter) in a kitchen.  They would offer no protection against burns as they are 75% polyester.  In fact, they would be dangerous in the presence of heat and open flame.


----------



## RememberanceDay

Pusser said:
			
		

> They're not the same as cooks' whites.  You could never use the cadet trousers (or the Navy dress whites for that matter) in a kitchen.  They would offer no protection against burns as they are 75% polyester.  In fact, they would be dangerous in the presence of heat and open flame.



Getting burned in one of those... One of my worst fears.


----------



## q_1966

Pusser said:
			
		

> They're not the same as cooks' whites.  You could never use the cadet trousers (or the Navy dress whites for that matter) in a kitchen.  They would offer no protection against burns as they are 75% polyester.  In fact, they would be dangerous in the presence of heat and open flame.



During the field phase of my QL3, melted a hole in my combat pants leaning up against, what I think was the steam line in the kitchen trailer for a split second. ;D 



			
				RemembranceDay said:
			
		

> Getting burned in one of those... One of my worst fears.



As a cook you develop sort of a welders hand, to test a cookie I can pick it up in the oven, if it lifts of the sheet (parchment paper) it's pretty much done. When I first started out, I met a civilian cook whom over his numerous years as a chef in many different kitchens, told me he had been burnt at least once, everywhere on his body.
there were not many visible scars, but it didnt take me long to belive him. 

Working in galley's on ship with counters that can tilt 45 to 60 degrees, with enough force to send everything flying... I have even been attacked with a knife...it was attached to a magnetic mount on the bakers rack up high and a box of Saran wrap or something on top shifted, caught the tip of the chef knife and sent the knife flying and hitting the counter beside me. It was as if someone threw the knife right in front of me as I was walking, that scared the bejeezus out of me.

My greater fear besides the above ;D would be a knife in the garbarator because god only knows where that shrapnel would fly, or tipping (breaking the tip) of the knife while de-boning a ham etc. rendering the ham unfit to eat because of the shard of metal, also 
- Lifting a ham improperly to transfer pans can make it break apart spattering hot grease on you.
- Lifting a big pans of 2 or 3 big round roasts from the oven to put on the counter you have to time it, between the pitches and rolls
- Hot pans of chicken produce grease that has to be drained periodically onto a bucket on the floor add a sea state that is less than ideal.
- Deep frying at sea, not suppose to be done but sometimes it happens
- Lifting hot inserts of soups, sauces, gravy to put on the line, all the while thinking about a story told to me some time ago by a co worker...Someone lifting an insert of reheated meat sauce from the steamer and slips, getting hot meat sauce all or his stomach, the cooks throw cold water on him, rip off his shirt his stomach is covered in second degree burns.
- Steam burns are the worst...
One of my instructors on my QL3 in his younger years accidentaly bumped his fore-arm on a steam jacket kettle for not even a split second, left his skin peeling like glue to the kettle. It left a very visible indent like scar.


----------

