# Cormorant Down-July 13/ 2006



## Gramps (13 Jul 2006)

Three people were killed and four injured early this morning in a helicopter crash during a Canadian Forces search and rescue training exercise off Canso, Nova Scotia.

The CH-149 Cormorant helicopter from 413 Transport and Rescue Squadron ditched at about 12:30 a.m. AT, the air force said in a brief news release.

Names of the victims and the injured were not released.

Military aircraft and Canadian Coast Guard vessels were on the scene.

RCMP from Canso were also assisting in the recovery operation.

Military spokesman Capt. John Pulchny says the four injured personnel have been rescued, while a recovery effort continues for the bodies of the victims.

Pulchny says the cause of the crash is not immediately clear.

More to come.


© The Canadian Press, 2006

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2006/07/13/scotia-crash.html


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## Gramps (13 Jul 2006)

Same basic story but with a little more info from The Halifax Herald.

Three dead, four injured in military chopper crash off Nova Scotia

By The Canadian Press
ADVERTISEMENT 


CANSO -- Three military personnel were killed and four injured early Thursday morning in a helicopter crash during a Canadian Forces search and rescue training exercise off Canso. 

The air force said the CH-149 Cormorant helicopter from 413 Transport and Rescue Squadron ditched in the water around 12:30 a.m.

Names of the victims and the injured were not released.

Military spokesman Capt. John Pulchny said the four injured personnel were pulled from the water, while a recovery effort continued for the bodies of the victims.

``Three crew members were found dead and are now being recovered by rescue personnel,'' Pulchny said in an interview.

Pulchny said the cause of the crash was not immediately clear.

He added that while weather conditions were not good in the area at the time of the crash, he did not know if severe weather may have played a part in the tragic mishap.

``As far as we understand, it (the crash) just came out of the blue -- a sudden call by a coast guard vessel, in fact, that the helicopter had ditched,'' said Pulchny. 

Military aircraft and Canadian Coast Guard vessels were on the scene.

RCMP from Canso were also assisting in the recovery operation.

Pulchny said one of the survivors was taken to hospital in Halifax, while the other three injured crew members remained in the Canso area. 

http://www.herald.ns.ca/Front/9001021.html


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## Hockeycaper (13 Jul 2006)

Gramps thanks for the update..our thoughts and prayers are with the families.


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## Cloud Cover (13 Jul 2006)

New pics on CTV - looks like the front has been sheered right off, although they may have broken it while loading onto the CCG ship.

RIP heroes.


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## WannaBeFlyer (13 Jul 2006)

My condolences to those who knew the three that lost their lives. 



			
				whiskey601 said:
			
		

> New pics on CTV - looks like the front has been sheered right off, although they may have broken it while loading onto the CCG ship.
> 
> RIP heroes.



Here is an updated article:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060713/nova_scotia_crash_060713/20060713?hub=TopStories


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## tomahawk6 (13 Jul 2006)

My condolences to the families of the personnel killed and a speedy recovery to those injured in this accident.


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## GAP (13 Jul 2006)

My condolances to the families and friends of the members who died...


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## Hot Lips (13 Jul 2006)

Sympathy and prayers for those who were lost and their loved ones...God's speed in recovery to those who were injured  

HL


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## gaspasser (13 Jul 2006)

My heartfelt condolences goes out to the families and friends of the SAR Crew.  I was there when 305 went down and it was a trying time for the Squadron and Wing.
"That Others May Live"
--formerly from 14 Wing TN


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## camochick (13 Jul 2006)

My thoughts are with the family and friends. RIP


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## Eagle_Eye_View (13 Jul 2006)

My thoughts and prayers to the families and friends. Good recovery for those injured in the accident.


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## bison33 (13 Jul 2006)

So others may live............RIP boys...and a speedy recovery for the others


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## 3rd Horseman (13 Jul 2006)

My thoughts are with the injured, their family, friends and the squadron family. RIP to the 3, you truly gave your lives in the purist of endeavours.


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## muffin (13 Jul 2006)

My condolences and prayers to the families, friends and unit and I wish a speedy recovery to the injured.


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## Pea (13 Jul 2006)

My thoughts are with their families and friends. Speedy and full recovery to the injured. Rest in peace.


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## dardt (13 Jul 2006)

My condolences to the crews family and friends.


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## muffin (13 Jul 2006)

Deceased have been IDed

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2006/07/13/scotia-crash.html

Military officials in Nova Scotia identified the dead as Sgt. Dwayne Brazill, Master Cpl. Kirk Noel and Cpl. Trevor McDavid.

Again - I am truely sorry for the loss.


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## military granny (13 Jul 2006)

My condolences to the families and friends.    And hope for a quick recovery to the injured.


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## Bobbyoreo (13 Jul 2006)

My condolences to the families and friends. RIP and I pray for a quick recovery for the injured.


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## Eagle_Eye_View (13 Jul 2006)

Sgt. Dwayne Brazill was FE, Master Cpl. Kirk Noel and Cpl. Trevor McDavid were SAR tech. For the last 2 names I'm not sure so if someone can confirm that please do so. 
If Cpl Trevor Mcdavid was SAR tech, he just graduated his SAR tech course here in Comox June 15th. 
Thats sad.


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## muffin (13 Jul 2006)

Noel was SAR and McDavid was FE as well. They have Brazil's name wrong in the article it is Duane Brazil.


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## gaspasser (13 Jul 2006)

I believe Trevor was an FE.  He was friends with my neighbour (also an FE) and my brother.  A young man with a young family.  My condolences.


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## cp140tech (13 Jul 2006)

There seemed to be a lot of activity coming from the flight line last night, I had just assumed it was another SAR callout. 

    Rest In Peace that others may live gentlemen.  My heart felt condolences to their families and friends, and I wish a safe recovery for the injured.


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## Eagle_Eye_View (13 Jul 2006)

ok thanks for clarifying the issue.
RIP guys.


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## FormerHorseGuard (13 Jul 2006)

sorry to hear about this loss of life.
hope and peace for the families


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## Good2Golf (13 Jul 2006)

Thoughts and prayers to Dwayne, Kirk and Trevor's family and friends.  RIP gentlemen.    Thoughts also for a speedy recovery to friends Ron and Gord and to the other crew members.

As an aside, I thought that LCol Hughes did an excellent job speaking at the press conference.

Duey


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## big bad john (13 Jul 2006)

My thoughts and prayers are with them and their families, friends and comrades.


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## Heavy_Duty391 (13 Jul 2006)

So sorry to hear that this morning on the radio.  My thoughts and my prayers goes to the souls of those brave members of the CF family and to the families of the victim.  May rest their souls.  Also positive thoughts for our injured members, may they get well fast.  Bless you all


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## manhole (13 Jul 2006)

our thoughts and prayers to the family and friends of those lost . RIP   
Ubique


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## beenthere (13 Jul 2006)

Condolences on the loss of these fine people and a speedy recovery to the injured.


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## gaspasser (13 Jul 2006)

I thought this might be an appropriate .gif for the day


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## IN HOC SIGNO (13 Jul 2006)

Duey said:
			
		

> Thoughts and prayers to Dwayne, Kirk and Trevor's family and friends.  RIP gentlemen.    Thoughts also for a speedy recovery to friends Ron and Gord and to the other crew members.
> 
> As an aside, I thought that LCol Hughes did an excellent job speaking at the press conference.
> 
> Duey



Well said...that is one of the most difficult things than any CO has to do...especially in as tight knit an outfit as the SAR world. Rest in peace gentlemen.


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## AmmoTech90 (13 Jul 2006)

RIP to those lost, and condolences to the firends and families.

D


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## super26 (13 Jul 2006)

My thoughts and prayers to the family of the lost airmen


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## Ex-Dragoon (13 Jul 2006)

Kirk and I sailed together in the Gulf, good guy that all he ever wanted to be was a SAR Tech, during that deployment he worked his @ss off to get ready for selection while being member of the Boarding Party with me. RIP Kirk you will be missed by the naval community by those that knew you and those that did not missed on on knowing a great guy.

RIP Trevor and Dwayne.


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## Jake (13 Jul 2006)

RIP guys


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## FredDaHead (13 Jul 2006)

RIP guys  

And a speedy recovery to the injured.


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## catalyst (13 Jul 2006)

in the 19 wing mess this afternoon, it was dead silent when the piece about this came on the TV.
RIP


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## 17thRecceSgt (13 Jul 2006)

RIP brave souls...thought and prayers to the crew's Sqn's, family, loved ones and friends.


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## Franko (13 Jul 2006)

Awww crap.

RIP.

Regards


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## Kirkhill (13 Jul 2006)

Peace and a swift recovery.


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## Bograt (13 Jul 2006)

There were three shots at the bar this afternoon. Sobering experience to see them there, and look around at your buddies knowing that our life has risks.

My thoughts are with their families- and mine.

"So others may live"


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## The Bread Guy (13 Jul 2006)

In battle, or practicing to help others, the loss, and the pain, remains the same....


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## pbi (14 Jul 2006)

Cheers


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## Roy Harding (14 Jul 2006)

"So Others May Live"

RIP

My thoughts and wishes are with the families and wounded.


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## The Bread Guy (15 Jul 2006)

It didn't take long..... 

*Expert suspects pilot error*
Chris Lambie, Chronicle-Herald (Halifax), 15 Jul 06
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/516287.html

Crash investigators say it’s too early to tell what caused a Cormorant military helicopter to plunge into the ocean off Canso on Thursday morning, killing three crew members. 

But according to one expert, it may have simply been flown into the sea.

"This is far, far too early to talk about cause factors at this point in time," said Maj. Michel Pilon, the military’s lead investigator from the directorate of flight safety.

But a former Royal Navy helicopter and jet pilot who examined photos of the downed chopper and read eyewitness accounts said he suspects human error caused the crash.

"Quite obviously, looking at the wreckage, I am certain that they must have flown into the sea," said Peter Jago, who was also a Top Gun instructor for the U.S. navy’s special fighter training school. 

Engine failure is unlikely to have caused the accident, said Mr. Jago, who still flies.

"If it was an engine failure, the guy would have immediately hauled back and would have settled into the sea," he said from California. "I am certain that they must have flown into the sea because they were in an extreme nose-down attitude." . . . . 

So, we have someone who has flown in the past, looking through photos, reading second-hand accounts (eyewitnesses' words, filtered through the media's lens), coming up with his best guess?  I'd be happy to hear from any aviators or other air types on this one.

If it bleeds, it leads....


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## vonGarvin (15 Jul 2006)

I've seen helicopters fly, and I've been passengers in some.  Big Deal.

Here's an analogy.  Probably most people on this site have their driver licence.  Would people who have driven a car before be able to make a call like this with regards to a motor vehicle accident?  I doubt it!

Friggin' media.


Now, back to your regularly scheduled surfing.....


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## KevinB (15 Jul 2006)

Extreme Nose Down  ???  - maybe it lost the main rotor and acted like a dart

* see I'm not even a pilot and I can have a theory  ;D


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## big bad john (15 Jul 2006)

Publishing and circulating reports that "second guess" what happened helps no one.  They hurt the process and those involved.  We here should not involve ourselves like this by circulating reports such as this.  Please keep the faith with our own and wait for the official report.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (15 Jul 2006)

Now that's the kind of parasitic pathetic slime-bag type journalism that the "Ruxted" group have been railing about.

EXPERT?.......on flying is not the same as an expert on crashing and/or investigating.

Chris Lambie....shame on you and shame on those above you who excepted this worthless piece.


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## Inch (15 Jul 2006)

Good to see Lambie isn't just writing tripe about the Sea Kings and Navy. 

Of course it couldn't be a hard over or any other malfunction like a rotor brake, electrical failure, or any number of things that will put you in the drink, either engine failure or pilot error. I love the media.


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## Kirkhill (15 Jul 2006)

Or failure of the auto-hover control system?

Opinions abound... I saw a helicopter once.


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## Kat Stevens (15 Jul 2006)

I'm not a pilot, but I've seen them on TV.  It appears to me, quite plainly, that the filbert flange was incorrectly meshing with the grapplegromitt. This led to a catastrophic failure of the gypsum saddle pump, and into the augie she went.  Now back to that cold fusion thing I've been tinkering with.   :


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## paracowboy (15 Jul 2006)

milnewstbay said:
			
		

> Crash investigators say it’s too early to tell...But


STFU.

"We have no facts so I'll just make some shit up to justify my paycheck, and ensure that my name is splashed around."

I say again: STFU.


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## bison33 (15 Jul 2006)

What paracowboy said......

I've worked on choppers and I fly in them....I could put out many speculations on why it crashed...but I'm not going to......like some moronic wanker seeking his 15 minutes. :rage:


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## Colin Parkinson (15 Jul 2006)

Having spent a fair bit of time on the ship end of a hoist operation, it is clear that when something goes wrong, there is little time for the pilot to react, I suspect equipment malfunction, unless it was a pilot in training. Either way, what a terrible loss, glad it happened where a rescue boat could have responded otherwise the whole crew would have likely perished.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (15 Jul 2006)

Quote from VG,
I've seen helicopters fly, and I've been passengers in some.  Big Deal.
Here's an analogy.  Probably most people on this site have their driver licence.  Would people who have driven a car before be able to make a call like this with regards to a motor vehicle accident?  I doubt it!

Friggin' media.




...and on a similar note, I see the RCMP are bringing in NASCAR drivers to reconsruct car accident scenes.....


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## Zoomie (15 Jul 2006)

Jago is an ***### and should have kept his mouth shut.  Military Helo drivers have already sent him personal emails saying as much.

We pay people to discover the reasons behind military accidents - the rest of us keep our mouths shut and eyes open.


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## vonGarvin (16 Jul 2006)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I'm not a pilot, but I've seen them on TV.  It appears to me, quite plainly, that the filbert flange was incorrectly meshing with the grapplegromitt. This led to a catastrophic failure of the gypsum saddle pump, and into the augie she went.  Now back to that cold fusion thing I've been tinkering with.   :


Wrong, wrong, wrong!  It was the Johnson Rod, I tell ya'!


But in all seriousness, your explanation holds exactly the same amount of water as the media's so-called "expert" who's already trialed and judged the pilot.


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## Koenigsegg (16 Jul 2006)

Is the Cormorant fly-by-wire?  because if it were, that would open up a whole bunch more "reasons" for the media to play with...
I don't suggest anything, because I don't know what could have happened.  
But the want to talk about things that I only have limited knowledge about (which is probably more than the media from what I read in that article, sadly) I will break my rule once to tell you that from what I am reading, the helicopter crashed quite similarly to the two or three Apaches that crashed in Kosovo.  ...  I don't remember what caused them, but who knows, same thing may have happened here.
That was my moment of enlightenment right there.


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## Dirt Digger (16 Jul 2006)

It could have been a breeching whale headbutting the aircraft.

I have a degree in Biology and have have eaten fish on numerous occasions.  I'm sure some media outlet would see those credentials as newsworthy.

Leave crash investigation to the crash investigators.  Leave speculation to Brian Daily on Usenet.


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## The Bread Guy (16 Jul 2006)

Hey, here's a radical idea...

If a reporter wants to write about aircraft accident investigations, there's a little something called "homework".  Heck, flying planes or investigating crashes are both outside my lane, but finding public information is.  Here's a public document to start with:

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/dfs/pdf/AGA135_dec02_e.pdf

True, it won't elicit a sexy headline, but who knows?  Some relevant information without speculation might sneak out there.

Too young to be so bitter?  ;D


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## Trinity (16 Jul 2006)

Ultimately..

You are all wrong

God must have willed the air craft to crash, simply because it happened.  


Actually, my favourite theory so far is the whale headbutting it!


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## GAP (16 Jul 2006)

Wouldn't that just get PETA after us for disguising ourselves as "Whale Targets" and injuring the poor whale population through malice of forethought?


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## navymich (16 Jul 2006)

GAP said:
			
		

> Wouldn't that just get PETA after us for disguising ourselves as "Whale Targets" and injuring the poor whale population through malice of forethought?


No, we're good with them for a bit.  We're naming the new ships ORCAs so they're happy with the military....for now.


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## GAP (16 Jul 2006)

Did they finally develop a whale harness that withstands salt water? 

Oh, you mean real human, metal ships named after those thingys in the water!!   :


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## Jarnhamar (16 Jul 2006)

I like this line.



> Quite obviously, looking at the wreckage, I am certain that they must have flown into the sea



Compared to flying into land?  I think the fact that helicopter crashed into the sea was never in question..


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## medicineman (16 Jul 2006)

If you don't know waht to say - don't say it.  But of course journalists wouldn't understand that would they?

So, to throw in my 2 bits, I've flown in them, got in and out of them, had people try to make me throw up in them.  I can't say much else other than my guess is that little factor of 9.8m/sec2 took over for some odd reason.  Of course, I'm not a crash investigator and failed physics in high school, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

MM


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## boots (16 Jul 2006)

Goodbye, and rest in peace. My condolences to the families and friends, and a quick recovery to the injured. SAR Techs are amazing people.


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## xmarcx (16 Jul 2006)

Metro ran the story on the front page on Friday, and made three very specific allusions to it being caused by a tail rotor failure.

#1. _"Hughes refused to speculate on a potential cause of the crash, or whether persistant structural problems with the aircraft's tail rotor played any part in the accident."_

#2. _"Because of concerns about potential cracking in the hub of the tail rotors, Cormorant training excercises were limited to three hours."_

#3. _"The Cormorant fleet was grounded two years ago after a Royal Navy equivalent was involved in a crash caused by a tail rotor brake failure."_

Apparently they've already solved the crash, especially impressive since the large photo accompanying the piece clearly shows that the tail rotor is about the only piece of the aircraft still intact.


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## Zoomie (17 Jul 2006)

In light of further email traffic, I must humbly retract my defaming statement against Mr. Jago.  It appears that Lambie took everything he said out of context.  (Surpise Surprise)

Apparently Lambie interviewed Jago while he was stuck in California traffic (over his cellphone).

Mr. Jago has stated that he would be following up with Mr. Lambie in an attempt to correct his outlandish article.


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## big bad john (17 Jul 2006)

Any word on the services for the men involved?


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## military granny (17 Jul 2006)

From 14 Wing site


14 WING GREENWOOD - The 413 (T&R) Sqn Crew Memorial Service for Sgt Duane Brazil, Master Cpl Kirk Noel and Cpl Trevor McDavid will be held on Tuesday 18 July 2006 at 2 P.M. in Hangar 14, 14 Wing Greenwood. The three Search and Rescue team members perished in last Thursday's Cormorant crash while conducting a training mission.

The Service will be open to the public and the media. All spectators and media are to be in place no later than 1:30 P.M.


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## gaspasser (18 Jul 2006)

My brother was good friends with Trevor and his wife Giselle, I only met Trevor and his family twice.  Trevor leaves behind two young girls and a new one on the way.  I've asked my brother (who will see the family tommorrow when he drives the bus)  to pass on many condolences from myself, my family and this site.
  "That Others May Live"


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## IN HOC SIGNO (18 Jul 2006)

military granny said:
			
		

> From 14 Wing site
> 
> 
> 14 WING GREENWOOD - The 413 (T&R) Sqn Crew Memorial Service for Sgt Duane Brazil, Master Cpl Kirk Noel and Cpl Trevor McDavid will be held on Tuesday 18 July 2006 at 2 P.M. in Hangar 14, 14 Wing Greenwood. The three Search and Rescue team members perished in last Thursday's Cormorant crash while conducting a training mission.
> ...



What an unfortunate way to discribe people attending a memorial service..."spectators. " 
what ever happened to "congregation" or "those attending?"
RIP brave souls.


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## beenthere (19 Jul 2006)

I would take that as is states "spectators and media" in a paragraph of it's own and that they be in place at 1330 for a service that starts at 1400 they are referring to "spectators and media" as opposed to others.


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## aluc (20 Jul 2006)

http://www.torontosun.ca/News/Canada/2006/07/20/1693587-sun.html



Thu, July 20, 2006
Chopper worked OK

By SUN WIRE SERVICES



HALIFAX -- Investigators have ruled out mechanical problems as the cause of a helicopter crash that killed three airmen and are now looking at other potential causes, such as human error and environmental factors, an air force spokesman said.

The crash occurred last Thursday during a nighttime training exercise off eastern Nova Scotia.


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## Loachman (20 Jul 2006)

xmarcx said:
			
		

> #3. _"The Cormorant fleet was grounded two years ago after a Royal Navy equivalent was involved in a crash caused by a tail rotor brake failure."_


Although there could, I suppose, be a helicopter somewhere on this planet or another that has a tail rotor brake I do not know of one, or why one would have such.

It was the Merlin's MAIN rotor brake that was implicated in the crash.

As many have noted on this thread and others, idle speculation is futile at best. Many of the accidents near and dear to me turned out to have causes very, very different from initial speculation.

The investigation may take months - two Kiowa crash investigations that I am particularly familiar with took about nine months each - because they are exceedingly thorough.

And while I have had reason to dispute very minor aspects of some findings in some crash investigations in the past I have never had reason to doubt either the quality of any investigation or the integrity, professionalism, and dedication of any Directorate of Flight Safety investigators.

They have all either flown or fixed aircraft for years and will usually go back to that so they have a vested interest in getting it right.

For now, the head-butting theory is as valid as any other.


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## Strike (20 Jul 2006)

Loach,

I suspect that the presence of a CVR/FDR will help speed up the process somewhat.

Here's hoping (and praying) for a quick recovery of the rest of the guys.

As for Mr Lambie, I noticed that the Halifax rag has yet to publish any of those wonderful comments about him from our brethren.


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## Scoobs (24 Jul 2006)

Having been the Wing Flight Safety Officer (WFSO) for a short time, I was amazed at the speed the investigation team said that no mechanical failure caused the crash.  I seriously doubt, as a person who has both the Basic Flight Safety Course and Advanced Course, an aerospace eng degree, etc., that mech failure can be ruled out so quickly.  All modern helos have a FDR or CVR or a combo, such as in the Griffon.  Also, not knowing what the Cormorant has in it exactly, another system that could be useful is the Health Usage Monitoring System (HUMS) or whatever it may be called in the Cormorant (assuming it has one).  The HUMS was very useful in the Griffon crash in Goose Bay where the two pilots passed away (RIP my friends).  
Having survivors, especially the pilots, will provide a wealth of info to DFS (Directorate of Flight Safety), who is responsible for investigating mil aircraft crashes.  By the way, I personally know one of the pilots on board (I'm not sure if he was flying as there were 3 onboard), and I can say without a doubt that he is a very experienced pilot.  He was relatively new on the Cormorant, but I would have flown with him anytime while I was at 427 Sqn.
Another point, a tail rotor assembly should not have to be replaced every 100 hrs.  This is extremely costly in terms of manhours, aircraft downtime, aircraft availability, etc.  If this is true that the Cormorant has to have its tail rotor assembly replaced every 100 hrs, then Augusta-Westland (AW) should be taken out back and taught a lesson on aircraft design.  Last year, some tail rotors had to be replaced after only two hours, and Augusta-Westland personnel didn't even get past the CAS while briefing him on the status of the solution to the tail rotor problem.  The 1 Cdn Air Div Commander was expecting the AW team, but didn't obviously get to meet them.  This came straight from the General to our FS course.  I hope that Augusta-Westland did make changes, as has been detailed in some news reports.

We all need to give DFS time to do a proper investigation.  Patience is a true virtue here and we may not know the cause (cause factor for us FS folks) for a year.  The thing about FS is that there are always other factors that led up to the crash and DFS will look at all of this so that we can do the aim of FS:

"To prevent the accidental loss of aviation resources".

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of our downed airmen.


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## Zoomie (24 Jul 2006)

I don't know where you got your information from Scoobs - but your facts on the -149 are way out to lunch.  

The Cormorant's tail rotor half hub (TRHH) have been a cause for concern since the downing of a RAF Merlin and our discovery of significant micro-fissures near the cut-outs on the TRHH.  Last year the fleet was restricted to 2 hours of flight time before a visual inspection was mandated to be made of the TRHH.  This could be done by the FE on the road.  Just recently the CAD has allowed that visual inspection cycle to be every 3 hours.  
Every 50 hours the entire tail rotor assembly must be torn down, inspected and then returned to service.  The IMP crews usually take care of this on the night shift and it is usually a non-event.  If there are no cracks or wear discovered (which there hasn't been for quite a while now) the TRHH is returned to service - not replaced.

Believe it or not - DFS has offically ruled that the -149 did not suffer any mechanical problems, environmental and human factors are now being investigated.


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## Scoobs (24 Jul 2006)

Zoomie,

my facts about a tail rotor assembly having to be replaced came straight from the Major-General at 1 Cdn Air Div as I was on my FS course.  Notice that I spoke of what I knew last year and in fact stated that I hoped that changes had been made.  I did not refer to what was happening this year as I do not have current info on the Cormorant.  As I've read numerous articles on this accident, one quoted a mil person that the tail rotor assembly is replaced every 100 hrs.  As we all know that the media isn't exactly accurate, I'm glad that you corrected this if this is not the case.  I just noticed that I used the words, "If this is true..."  Therefore, I qualified my statement, so you shouldn't jump down my throat but instead should have simply corrected my statement.  Also, I'm glad that the tail rotor is no longer considered to be an issue.  However, the info about the CAS being briefed by the personnel from Augusta-Westland is accurate as once again, the Maj-Gen told us this.

As to whether or not DFS has ruled out that the 149 did not suffer any mech probs, I will wait for the final report.  My point at the end of my response was that we should all wait for DFS to *finish* their investigation before jumping to any conclusions.  The rumour mill is rampant when accidents happen and we saw what can happen when rumours are taken as fact by the media (read the UK pilot offering his opinion on this crash).


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## Loachman (24 Jul 2006)

Scoobs said:
			
		

> Having been the Wing Flight Safety Officer (WFSO) for a short time, I was amazed at the speed the investigation team said that no mechanical failure caused the crash.



I think that that was just ignorance on the part of the press. The first report that I saw in the media stated that the half-hub problem had been ruled out. That should be a very simple thing to do - and one of, if not the first, things that the team would have looked at given the history of that problem.

CVRs and FDRs are invaluable, but can't tell the whole story.

The only way that mechanical failure could possibly be ruled out so soon is if one of the crew stated that he did something that caused or led to the crash - and even then, it may not be cut and dried.

I know Ron too, albeit not well.

Lots of experience on that crew, but stuff still happens.


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## Loachman (24 Jul 2006)

This was e-mailed out on the DIN on Friday and I just got it this morning:

Update on CH149914

On July 13th, a tragic Cormorant accident occurred and three airmen lost their lives.  As with all Canadian Forces (CF) aircraft accidents, a Flight Safety investigation (FSI) was initiated.  The Director of Flight Safety, as the delegated Airworthiness Investigation Authority, tasked an investigation team lead by an Investigator In Charge (IIC), to determine the causes of the CH149914 crash and identify effective preventive measures which will either prevent or reduce the risk of a similar occurrence.  The appointed FSI IIC is Major Michel Pilon, a seasoned helicopter pilot and experienced investigator.  I would like to point out up front that the FSI has not and will not assign blame.

The field portion of this investigation comprised of the collection of data and evidence is nearly complete.  Interviews have been conducted with the surviving aircrew and witnesses.  The CVR/FDR was recovered and sent to the Flight Recorder Playback Centre at the National Research Center in Ottawa.  The data was returned to the investigation team.  All documentation concerning the aircraft's maintenance and inspections, prevailing weather, the aircrew's training and qualifications, air traffic services and applicable orders and procedures have been gathered.  Given the known crack problems with the tail rotor half-hubs (TRHH) of the Cormorant fleet, this component was a high priority item to be examined by the Quality Engineering Test Establishment investigation team members.  Although not entirely ruled out, the TRHH does not seem to be a factor in this accident.  In fact, at this time, the IIC has not found anything that would warrant a recommendation that CH149 operations be further restricted.  The Investigation Team is organizing a full simulation on the UK Merlin Flight Simulator using FDR data recovered from the crash site.

The analysis and study of the mass of information obtained is in its initial stages and the investigation is far from finalized.  Before completing the investigation, the IIC will have explored all possibilities and determined the most probable causes or combination of factors which lead or could have lead to the accident; be it technical, physiological, operational or human.  For the human factors analysis of the accident, the IIC would identify the omissions, errors or unsafe acts which could have directly contributed to the accident and more importantly determine the latent factors involved in the accident be it the preconditions under which the crew were operating, any supervisory issues and/or organizational problems present.

Regrettably, on 20 Jul 06, a CF member was either misunderstood or misquoted by a journalist who published an article, which received national exposure, indicating that investigators had ruled out mechanical problems as the cause of this accident.  This information was not released by any member of the investigation team or DFS.  These news items have created anguish for those people close to the tragedy, implied that the Investigation Team released information prematurely and, as a result, has had a negative effect within the Air Force. 

I wish to emphasize that DFS has not ruled out or assigned any cause factors yet.  DFS will publish a synopsis of the accident, From the Investigator, containing factual information and the direction the investigation is taking, within the next 30 days.  DFS aims to publish the Final report within a year of the accident.  Given that some of the information related to this investigation is considered Privileged, all media requests shall be coordinated through the Directorate of Air Public Affairs.  Please forward all media queries to Capt Jim Hutcheson at ***-***-****.

A.D. Hunter 
Col 
DFS


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## Scoobs (24 Jul 2006)

Loachman,

thanks for posting that email.  

Others,

This proves exactly what I said, wait for the final investigation results and don't trust media when they print something.


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## big bad john (11 Aug 2006)

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/521202.html

Ceremony to be held at helicopter crash site

By JIM MacDONALD
ADVERTISEMENT 
  


Three military men who died last month when their search and rescue helicopter crashed into the ocean near Canso will be remembered this weekend near the site of the tragedy.

A wreath will be placed Sunday at a monument just outside town for Sgt. Duane Brazil of Gander, N.L., Master Cpl. Kirk Noel of St. Anthony, N.L., and Cpl. Trevor McDavid of Sudbury, Ont., during the annual Seamen’s Memorial Service.

The ceremony, now in its 30th year, is traditionally a tribute to local fishermen who died at sea.

But in light of the accident that happened July 13 during a routine training exercise, Canso Mayor Ray White said it’s only fitting to pay homage to those who would come to the aid of fishermen in trouble.

"The community felt it was only appropriate that during this service we should also remember these three airmen who were lost at sea trying to protect our fishermen," he said Thursday. "That was the whole nature of that training exercise."

Seven representatives from 14 Wing Greenwood, the downed Cormorant’s home base, will be in attendance, but Mr. White said their invitation to the service was made before the crash, which also injured four crewmen.

The ceremony takes place on two consecutive Sundays, starting this weekend with church services in the surrounding area.

Then a procession will move to a monument in Hazel Hill that was built to replicate the skeleton of an overturned boat.

Imprinted on the structure is a list of names of local fishermen who died on the job. After their names are read, a second rollcall will be made for those who were longtime fishermen but who died of other causes. 

Wreaths that are laid at the site during the service will be dropped into the sea on the following Sunday.

One of the eight new names that will be read from the second list will be that of former Canso Trawlermen’s Co-op leader Pat Fougere, who died of a heart attack a few hours after the service ended last year. He was 51.

Mr. Fougere was important to the service each year, Mr. White said, as he was on the committee that researched the history of each person who was being honoured.

Mr. Fougere became a strong voice for local fishermen, often criticizing government policies that he said robbed fishermen of access to fish stocks. 

While the mayor anticipates there will be references at the service to Mr. Fougere’s life and work, he expects they won’t overshadow the ceremony.

"Knowing Pat as well as I did, he would want the service to focus on its true meaning," he said.

( jmacdonald@herald.ca)


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## C/10 (11 Aug 2006)

RIP


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## The Bread Guy (11 Sep 2006)

The latest, from CF Directorate of Flight Safety
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/dfs/docs/Fti/CH149914_e.asp

Aircraft Occurrence Summary
Type: CH149914 Cormorant 
Date: 13 July 2006 
Location: Chedabucto Bay, near Canso, NS 

The accident involved a Cormorant Search and Rescue helicopter with a crew of seven. The crew had assumed SAR standby duties and was authorized to conduct a training mission to practice night boat hoists from the fishing vessel Four Sisters No.1, a member of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary. The cockpit crew consisted of a co-pilot in the left pilot seat, a pilot acting as Aircraft Commander (AAC) in the right pilot seat and a pilot who was the actual Aircraft Commander (AC) seated in the cockpit jump seat. The remainder of the crew occupied the cabin area. They comprised of a Flight Engineer (FE), a Flight Engineer under training (FEUT), a SAR Tech Team Lead (SAR Tech TL) and a SAR Tech Team Member (SAR Tech TM). 

The crew departed Greenwood, NS at 2120L hrs and completed an uneventful transit to the Port Hawkesbury, NS airport, where they stopped to conduct a required tail-rotor inspection. While on the ground in Port Hawkesbury, the crew contacted Four Sisters No. 1 to confirm that the weather in the area was suitable for the training scenario. The Captain of the Four Sisters No. 1 stated that the weather was clear, visibility was good and the water was calm. 

The aircraft departed Port Hawkesbury just before midnight on 12 July 2006 to rendezvous with the Four Sisters No. 1 at approximately 2 nautical miles (NM) north of Canso, NS on Chedabucto Bay. After locating the ship, the helicopter used the "Over Water Transition Down" procedure and proceeded to the "rest" position, which is 100 ft above the water and a safe distance from the ship just off the hoisting position from which the crew would start the boat hoisting procedure. 

At this point, the helicopter descended to 60 feet and the AC directed the flying pilot to go-around. The pilot acknowledged the go-around command and initiated the go-around procedure. During the overshoot attempt, the helicopter entered a nose-low attitude and seconds later the aircraft impacted the water at approx 30 to 50 knots in an 18 degree nose-down attitude with maximum torque being developed by the main rotor. Upon water impact, the front portion of the aircraft was destroyed while the cabin area aft of the forward part of the cargo door remained relatively intact; the aircraft immediately filled with water and rolled inverted. The crew of Four Sisters No. 1 made a "Mayday" call at approximately 0030L hrs 13 July 2006. The aircraft sustained "A" category damage. 

The three pilots and the SAR Tech TL were injured but survived the crash. The two flight engineers and the SAR Tech TM were unable to egress the aircraft and did not survive. 

No pertinent technical deficiencies have been discovered to date and the investigation is focussing on environmental and human factors. Several human factors need to be further examined including: proficiency, crew resource management, situational awareness, crew pairing, use of night vision goggles and organizational issues such as currency and training. Additionally, several Aviation Life Support Equipment and egress issues will be investigated. 
###

And how MSM handled this, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

*Cormorant crash investigation focuses on human error: flight report*
Murray Brewster, Canadian Press, 11 Sept 06
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=03f9a6b4-97ac-41cb-aeea-05657ffd47e1&k=84619

Military investigators focused Monday on human error as the possible cause of the crash of a Cormorant search-and-rescue helicopter that killed three airmen off eastern Nova Scotia in July.

An interim flight safety report, which formally ruled out mechanical trouble, said “several human factors” will need further investigation, including the fact that one of the pilots at the controls was being trained when the helicopter plunged into the ocean off Canso, N.S. during a night exercise.

The crash claimed the lives of Sgt. Duane Brazil, 39; Master Cpl. Kirk Noel, 33; and Cpl. Trevor McDavid, 31. Four other crew members, including the pilot and co-pilot, were treated in hospital for serious but non-life-threatening injuries.

At the time, the co-pilot was in the pilot’s seat.

“The whole purpose of (the flight) was to conduct training for this individual in order to upgrade him to full aircraft commander status,” Maj. Michel Pilon, the lead investigator, said in an interview following the release of the interim report.

“You had a co-pilot on the left seat and you had an acting aircraft commander on the right seat (and) the aircraft commander seated in the jump seat,” said Pilon.

“This is an aspect we need to further examine in order to determine whether it’s really a good way to pair a crew together.”

The investigation is far from complete, Pilon cautioned and no conclusions have been drawn.

No mechanical troubles were noted with the 15-tonne aircraft, even though the Cormorant fleet has a history of cracked tail rotors.

Weather conditions were also good at the time.

Experts in flight crew training are examining the piloting issue, as well as the proficiency of the aircrew. They are expected to report to the accident investigation team by the fall.

Another aspect under review is the fact that some of the flight crew were wearing night vision goggles at the time of the accident.

“It’s a factor,” Pilon conceded, “but its importance needs to be assessed and evaluated. We’re not really prepared to say anything more about night-vision goggles at this time.”

The CH-149 Cormorant from 413 Transport and Rescue Squadron was creeping up on the stern of a coast guard auxiliary ship just after midnight on July 13. It was practising what aircrew call one of their “bread and butter” training exercises; lowering a search-and-rescue technician to the deck of a ship. The helicopter suddenly veered to the side and plowed nose-first into the water.

The interim report revealed Monday that the aircraft commander directed the pilot at the controls to veer off and make a second pass at the ship.

“The pilot acknowledged the go-around command and initiated the go-around procedure,” said the three-page document.

At that point, that the aircraft went down, striking the water at roughly 50 knots. The impact sheared off the cockpit from the rest of the helicopter.

The cabin area remained relatively intact as the chopper rolled over and filled with water.

Brazil, Noel and McDavid did not get out of the rear cabin. The preliminary report did not say whether they were killed on impact or drowned.

Witnesses on the reserve coast guard ship say the crash happened so fast no one had a chance to say anything.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (6 Aug 2007)

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/08/06/4397798-cp.html

By MICHAEL TUTTON
    
HALIFAX (CP) - For John Noel, waiting more than a year for answers on how his nephew died in a helicopter crash off Nova Scotia's coast is often more than he can bear. 
The 58-year-old electrician wipes away a tear as he talks of his frustration with a military safety inquiry into the crash that killed his 33-year-old nephew, Master Cpl. Kirk Noel of St. Anthony, N.L., on July 13, 2006. 

"We've had nothing but misinformation, innuendo, whatever you want to call it," Noel said in an interview. "We don't know anything now more than we did when it started." 

Noel was one of three men who died when the Cormorant rescue helicopter plunged nose-first into the Atlantic Ocean just east of Canso during a nighttime rescue exercise. 
Search and rescue technicians Sgt. Paul (Duane) Brazil, 39, and Cpl. Trevor Sterling McDavid, 31, also died inside the rear cabin of the helicopter. The three pilots and a search and rescue technician survived. 

Officers from the Air Force's Directorate of Flight Safety say they're legally prohibited from revealing what they've found so far.  
But for Noel, that silence creates a painful wait, partly because he'd always felt a sense of responsibility for his adventurous nephew, who had just completed his training as a rescuer. 
He described their relationship as being like brothers because Kirk grew up in his house in St. Anthony and was cared for by his parents. 

"When my father died three years ago, the last thing he said as I was sitting by his side, was, 'Look, John, look after Kirk.' I said, 'Father, don't worry about that. I'll look after him,' " Noel recalled. 
"But it was more promise than I could keep." 
He and his wife Hazel note that the helicopter's flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were recovered, providing detailed information in the crucial minutes before the crash. 
The four surviving airmen were also able to give testimony. 

However, the only public release on the crash, issued last September, gives only a broad view of the findings. 
One line in particular from that report stands out for Noel. It says: "Additionally, several aviation life support equipment and egress issues will be investigated." 
That has led Noel to ask whether the rescue technicians managed to release themselves from the safety harnesses that attached them to the aircraft, claiming he received inaccurate information from the military in the early months on this issue. 

"We were told the men managed to get their safety harnesses off," he said. 
Since then, other members of the military have told him some of the crew who died hadn't managed to remove the "monkey-tail" harnesses, which go around the arms, legs and torso, and have a line at the back that connects them to the helicopter. 
Noel said he no longer has contact with any military liaison officers to discuss the harnesses. 
"I don't know who to call. We don't know anymore," he said. 

Col. Chris Shelley, director of flight safety, said in an interview he can't discuss the harnesses because of the ongoing investigation. 
Shelley said he understands the family's frustration and hopes changes to federal legislation will allow more information to be released to grieving families in the future. 
He noted that Bill C-6, currently before Parliament, would allow crash investigators to pass more information to next-of-kin, with the legal requirement they not tell others what they learn. 

"I find it difficult because the families want to know, more than anything, they want to know what happened to their loved ones, and they want to know how the investigation is going," he said. 
"Moreover, it does happen that they get information from other sources, and quite often it's wrongheaded. And so they spend a period of time with a false perception of where the investigation is going." 

A draft of the final report was completed in late April and has been in circulation among "persons of direct interest," including aircraft manufacturers, the air crew and officers involved in the accident. 
The directorate often states it aims to release the reports approximately one year after an accident. 
However, Shelley said in this case "some agencies took longer than anticipated to provide their comments," while a new investigator has been brought into the case and has had other crash investigations to deal with. 

Noel said he believes he must keep up the pressure for more information. 
"I wonder if changes are being made, or are they operating under the same rules," he said.


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## ark (10 Mar 2008)

> Military to release final report into fatal military chopper crash off N.S.
> 5 hours ago
> 
> HALIFAX — Almost two years after a military helicopter nosedived into the dark waters off Nova Scotia, killing three men, military investigators were to release their final report into the incident Tuesday.
> ...



http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jChxZAU6fu-Sv7Ae1dVB38aYGWEg

Bump


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## Yrys (11 Mar 2008)

another article on same subject :

Inadequate training behind Cormorant crash - CTV.ca News Staff



> Human error and inadequate training were the primary causes of a fatal 2006 Cormorant military helicopter crash off Canso, N.S., the military has found.
> 
> Three of seven crew members died of drowning on July 13, 2006, after the search and rescue helicopter nosedived into the Atlantic Ocean while out on a night-time
> training exercise, breaking the helicopter in two. Crew members survived the initial impact, but some were unable to escape because of blocked emergency exits,
> ...




Article on link


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## Richie (11 Mar 2008)

Another article re this tragic incident: <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080311.wchopper0311/BNStory/National/home">Link to Globe and Mail Article</a>.

Quote from article:
"The primary causes of a fatal military helicopter crash off Canso, N.S., nearly two years ago were the pilot's inappropriate flying technique and the flight crew's misreading of the flight path, investigators say in a final report issued Tuesday."

Let's hope that this doesn't become another "let's blame the pilot" story. Perhaps we should blame the Liberals for cutting funds to the military and thus reducing training. 

Just my view from the civvy world,
Richie


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## benny88 (11 Mar 2008)

Richie said:
			
		

> Let's hope that this doesn't become another "let's blame the pilot" story. Perhaps we should blame the Liberals for cutting funds to the military and thus reducing training.



   I think that may be a bit of a stretch Richie. In the article you quoted it says that this WAS a training flight, with an instructor in the back. I agree that we shouldn't be quick to blame the pilot for every incident, but pilot error does happen, and experts evaluated this for 2 years before coming to this conclusion.


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## observor 69 (11 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> I think that may be a bit of a stretch Richie. In the article you quoted it says that this WAS a training flight, with an instructor in the back. I agree that we shouldn't be quick to blame the pilot for every incident, but pilot error does happen, and experts evaluated this for 2 years before coming to this conclusion.



Yes it was a training flight but the article says :

[ "Among the “latent” factors cited in the report is the restriction on the number of training flights imposed as the result of persistent cracks in the Cormorant's tail rotor hubs.

The impact on training was “underestimated and inadequately addressed,” the report says." ]


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## Richie (14 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> I think that may be a bit of a stretch Richie. In the article you quoted it says that this WAS a training flight, with an instructor in the back. I agree that we shouldn't be quick to blame the pilot for every incident, but pilot error does happen, and experts evaluated this for 2 years before coming to this conclusion.



Benny, sorry for not replying earlier, "life" got in the way of the Internet 

The intent of my post was to point out that cutbacks in military spending have resulted in problems with training for CF personnel (at least that's what it looks like from the outside). As the article states: "British instructors who operate flight simulators had noted that Canadian crews shown lower than expected levels of proficiency. However, the military never formally studied the issue." 

Obviously pilot error does happen in both the military and the civilian aviation fields; but I really just hope that the higher-ups in the military are not whitewashing this tragic incident. On the contrary, they should be aiming the spotlight on it as an example of how underfunding of the military can lead to the loss of more than just an expensive helicopter.

Richie


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## dapaterson (14 Mar 2008)

I don't think the issue here was a lack of funding, rather a lack of spares and an onerous (but necessary) verification routine for certain critical, failure-prone systems - which then manifested itself in reduced training and skill levels.


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## Strike (14 Mar 2008)

Richie said:
			
		

> Benny, sorry for not replying earlier, "life" got in the way of the Internet
> 
> The intent of my post was to point out that cutbacks in military spending have resulted in problems with training for CF personnel (at least that's what it looks like from the outside). As the article states: "British instructors who operate flight simulators had noted that Canadian crews shown lower than expected levels of proficiency. However, the military never formally studied the issue."
> 
> ...



Please go to the following site http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/dfs/reports-rapports/I/reports-rapports-eng.asp and read the whole report, not just the epilogue.  Cost did not come into factor.  In fact, it was a lag in training, which has affected the fleet as a whole from switching from an antiquated machine to a technological wonder, that was partly responsible for the events.  The problems in training were not because of lack of funding, but the corporate knowledge from a previous aircraft.  Add to that the 2-hr training flight limitation because of the tail rotor hub (which has nothing to do with funding and everything to do with a design flaw), the issues discussed in previous articles about the lack of currency of one pilot and the lack of profficiency of the student pilot (because he was in training after all) and many other factor, and all the holes in the swiss cheese line up (I'm sure we've all seen that model) and cause the accident.

(Yes, I rock at run-on sentences.)


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## Richie (14 Mar 2008)

Thanks for the link, I'll read the report. The opinion that I had originally expressed was based in part on my own feelings (bad I know, feelings not facts) about the continuing underfunding of our military and what I had read in the MSM. I'll be happy to read something more substantial.


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## Strike (14 Mar 2008)

Richie,

No worries.

It's a good read, albeit a long one.

One of the pilots involved is a good friend and I know he did his best to turn a negative experience into something positive, especially when it came to the personal safety gear we wear.  He was instrumental in testing it all in various adverse conditions after the fact.

Unfortunately we can't plan for all situations, but luckily our flight safety system is a great tool, and serves to prevent events like this from happening again in the future.


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## AirCanuck (22 Mar 2008)

hmm, I specifically remember this one and what I was doing when I found out... I was on IAP and our MCpl came in and told us during  our first class.

sad day.


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## Richie (1 Apr 2008)

Strike,

I've finished reading the report (I'm glad it had a glossary!). As you stated, the problems in training seem to be due to a culture that does not fully appreciate the value of automation in modern aircraft. The CH149 pilot training course was not updated to take into account the increased automation as a result of the transition from the Labrador to the CH149. This combined with the restrictions on flight time due to the tail rotor crack meant that the crews of 413 (TR) Squadron expressed a lack of confidence in their own proficiency. These restrictions focused on possible mechanical failure at the expense of necessary training time.
As well, the opportunity to use the flight simulator in the UK more frequently seemed to have been disregarded by the higher-ups. I hope that the CH149 pilot training course has been updated and that crews are given more access to the flight simulators and are directed to make full use of the automation available in such a sophisticated craft as the EH-101. Old habits are hard to break, I know.

Having read the report, it seems to me that for all of this to happen, there has to be a cultural change in the military bureaucracy which will allow for a quicker acceptance of advances in technology and the incorporation of these advances in the training programs.

I`m very sorry about the loss of life but happy for you that your buddy did get out. Next time you see him, tell him that there is one more civilian out there who has a much deeper appreciation for what you guys do.  

Richie


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## kj_gully (1 Apr 2008)

It is all well and good to say that Canadian pilots should take more advantage of tha UK Simulator, but what isn't quite so easy to see is how little benefit there is into flying across 8? maybe seven time zones, (from Comox to UK) flying two days of simulator, then getting back into the jet and flying back. Not to mention tha CF induced stopover to prevent having to book business class seats. you then have a completely jet lagged pilot or FE (flight Engineer), who is required to get right back on tha flying schedule, so someone else  can go to England. Do that twice a year, then I will ask you if you want more simulator time. How about building a Sim in Canada? North America even. I hope tha US101 project will come with a simulator that will be able to be configed for Cormorant.


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## Strike (1 Apr 2008)

Richie,

Thanks for reading the report.  I would have explained all that it said to you myself, but in a situation as complex as this it's better for you to get it straight from the horse's mouth.


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## Richie (1 Apr 2008)

kj_gully said:
			
		

> It is all well and good to say that Canadian pilots should take more advantage of tha UK Simulator, but what isn't quite so easy to see is how little benefit there is into flying across 8? maybe seven time zones, (from Comox to UK) flying two days of simulator, then getting back into the jet and flying back. Not to mention tha CF induced stopover to prevent having to book business class seats. you then have a completely jet lagged pilot or FE (flight Engineer), who is required to get right back on tha flying schedule, so someone else  can go to England. Do that twice a year, then I will ask you if you want more simulator time. How about building a Sim in Canada? North America even. I hope tha US101 project will come with a simulator that will be able to be configed for Cormorant.



I agree that taking a crewman suffering from jet lag and just slotting him back in the flying schedule is _not_ a good idea. I would have thought that the military would give you a day off to lose the jet lag before putting you back in the schedule. 
One thing that surprised me about all of this is that we bought fifteen very advanced helicopters but didn't get a simulator. I'm not in the military and I'm not a pilot, so I'll ask if that is normal or was it a cost cutting measure on the government's part?

Finally, as you mentioned, if the Americans go for the EH-101 as the new Marine One, I'm sure they will get a simulator and hopefully you folks can use it!


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## Richie (1 Apr 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Richie,
> 
> Thanks for reading the report.  I would have explained all that it said to you myself, but in a situation as complex as this it's better for you to get it straight from the horse's mouth.



Yes, you could have just told me what was in the report, but then I wouldn't have learned nearly as much as I did. If I'm trying to understand something, I prefer to have people do just what you did, i.e. point me in the right direction and let me read and learn for myself.  

Richie


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