# MISSION IMPOSSIBLE : WORKING FOR DND



## brave little soldier (29 Oct 2008)

I have been working for a DND contractor for 4 years as an International Consultant. I have assisted hundreds of military families relocate to and from all over the world. 

I am familiar with all aspects of travel claims, IRP policies and procedures ; I am also familiar with DND : my husband is an officer, currently serving in Kabul...

I love my job but looking for new opportunities. My name has been in a pool of qualified AS people for DND Ottawa almost a year now ; I have a diploma in Accounting, diploma in Administration, diploma in International Trade and I am fluently bilingual, English C-E-C.

I thought I'd be getting an offer anytime... Well, that pool is about to expire and nothing has come out of it... How do people actually get to work for DND ??? Is there a password or something ?

Thank you !


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## kincanucks (29 Oct 2008)

brave little soldier,

Sometimes it looks like the Public Service is a secret club.  From people have told me getting hired in Ottawa is more difficult due to the target rich environment (lots of qualified applicants).  Hang on and keep trying.  Good Luck.

Kincanucks


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## slowmode (29 Oct 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> I have been working for a DND contractor for 4 years as an International Consultant. I have assisted hundreds of military families relocate to and from all over the world.
> 
> I am familiar with all aspects of travel claims, IRP policies and procedures ; I am also familiar with DND : my husband is an officer, currently serving in Kabul...
> 
> ...



  From people I know who work at DND it took them A LONG time to get reply back. A couple of them even getting a reply two years after applying. I say keep up the hard work your doing and keep calling and asking .


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## muffin (29 Oct 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> My name has been in a pool of qualified AS people for DND Ottawa almost a year now



There are a few confusing aspects of the hiring process with the Public Service, one of which is the candidate pool. For bilingual AS positions in Ottawa, the AS pool could have been made up of hundreds of candidates. Ottawa is full of people deploying from one position to another, and priority transfers etc. These people are hired because they are easier to move - very little paperwork involved. Also, there are levels of priority -  If the pool was run closed and open at the same time, the closed competition candidates will have priority over the open ones - etc.

I am sure I understand the desire to switch from the contractor to the PS - as it is more job security and they will accomidate your husband's postings etc. 

You may wish to look at trying for a lower level competition for now - CR4 -5 .... I know there is an AS3-5 competition running now as well but I am not sure if it is open to the public. Once you have your "foot in the door" you are eligible for Acting poisitions, deployments (position transfers - not overseas lol), secondments etc and would be able to get to a position in your preferred classification fairly easily. Many people come in at a level lower than they wanted, but find themselves where they'd like to be within a year or so.

Unfortuanly in Ottawa, the biligualism isn't as helpful, because the majority of people applying are biilngual, whereas in other parts of the country that can give you a huge advantage. 

We have found as well, that with the "baby boomer" generation retiring from the CF and the new regulations concerning closed comeptitions and regforce/reserve members, there has been a huge influx of military members switching to civilian positions - they are able to apply to closed competitions while still military, and can then release to the civi position if they are sucessful. What you find then, is the AS positions are being filled by WO's and Capts/Majs who have either been in the field and doing the job for 20+ years - and/or who have Bachelor and Master's Degrees in Business Admin etc. That's some stiff competition.

Here in Kingston, I find a lot of former military taking the positions in my group (CS-computer systems) - a lot of the sig trades have IT/IS/IM components.

If I were you - I would apply for every single competition you qualify for - and you are bound to get something soon  Ottawa lists 5-10 competitions a day it seems.

Best of luck to you!
muffin


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## dapaterson (29 Oct 2008)

My entry into DND:  Competition open to the public.  ROughly a year later, an invitation (at the last minute) to write a qualifying exam.  Several months elapse.  Informed I passed.  Next step will be interviews.  Months more elapse.  Informed that the competition was abandonned.

Flash forward five years.  Applied for an internal competition (full-time military at the time).  Exam four months after application; interview two months later; into qualified pool four months after that, intent to appoint posted two months after that; appointed four or five months later.  Second go round, all together, took about 18 months from application to being a public servant.

Remember that transfers are easier than new employees, so most managers will go that route if they can.


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## Haggis (29 Oct 2008)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> My entry into DND:  Competition open to the public.  ROughly a year later, an invitation (at the last minute) to write a qualifying exam.  Several months elapse.  Informed I passed.  Next step will be interviews.  Months more elapse.  Informed that the competition was abandonned.
> 
> Flash forward five years.  Applied for an internal competition (full-time military at the time).  Exam four months after application; interview two months later; into qualified pool four months after that, intent to appoint posted two months after that; appointed four or five months later.  Second go round, all together, took about 18 months from application to being a public servant.



Well, that pretty well echoes my experiences working in a CS-03/AS-05 position (as an MWO) for 28 months.  Still involved in a competiton for said AS-05 job, which I entered in May.  Did the written exam last week (5 months).  I have changed CF jobs since then and will likely get another tour before the process is decided.

Brave Little Soldier be patient!


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## brave little soldier (30 Oct 2008)

People,

Thank you for your kind words and for showing support...  :warstory: Muffin, your comments were very especially appreciated, you thought me a few things about the process...

FastEddy, here is why I want to work for DND :

I am an ambitious person who doesn’t shy away from challenges! I thrive in a continuously evolving environment.  Consequently, I adapt to new situations and acquire new skills with enthusiasm. I am considered dynamic and extremely motivated. I accomplish my tasks rapidly, with acute precision and remarkable ease. Fully bilingual, I communicate very effectively in both official languages, orally and in writing. Highly effective interpersonal skills allow me to interact with people tactfully and positively. I am recognized for demonstrating strong work ethics and I am well respected among co-workers, clients and third parties. I have a true sense of fulfillment when, at the end of a day, I have the feeling that I went above and beyond what was expected of me.

Please explain the reasons why you reacted so negatively to my post : this way, I can better prepare for my next job interview...


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## Drag (30 Oct 2008)

The big problem I see with many civilian positions in DND is that, even though they go to competition, the competitions are designed to hire a particular person who allready works in that department and all else is for show.  I know many people who accepted lower level positions to get their foot in the door so they can be that person around who the position requirements are designed.


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## brave little soldier (30 Oct 2008)

Hi Drag !

Yes, I know that I was interviewed and tested for one particular position just for show ; they already had someone in mind... Still, I am hopeful...


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## daftandbarmy (1 Nov 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> Hello FastEddy,
> 
> I came across army.ca one night in September. I browsed the site and decided to create a profile. When prompted to find a nickname, the only one that came to my mind was brave little soldier.
> 
> ...



So if you're really brave, why not try the private sector? 

It sounds like you're well on your way to building a strong expertise in the HR field. Guess what? Most companies these days need good HR people due to current demographic shifts and other imperatives. Boldness, in your case, may mean edging away from the perceived security of a government job and pursuing the benefits and challenges available aplenty in the corporate world.

Fix bay'nets...


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## Greymatters (1 Nov 2008)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> It sounds like you're well on your way to building a strong expertise in the HR field. Guess what? Most companies these days need good HR people due to current demographic shifts and other imperatives. Boldness, in your case, may mean edging away from the perceived security of a government job and pursuing the benefits and challenges available aplenty in the corporate world.



Hard to beat a government pension, not all corporate entities offer that...


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## brave little soldier (1 Nov 2008)

Indeed, I was self-employed for many years and enjoyed those years immensely. I was a successful, bold  8) business woman and I was self-centered. The tragedy of September 11th shook me to the core... If I had died that day, what would have been my greatest achievement ?  ???

My desire to work for DND (not just any other department) goes beyond the perceived security of a government job or a pension... I have the greatest admiration for its men and women and I want to do my part supporting the mission.  

If I was really really brave, and a few years younger, I might have considered becoming a real soldier...


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## George Wallace (1 Nov 2008)

bls

DND and the CF are not the only ones who are defending this country.  There are numerous Police and other Emergency Services.  There are other Government Departments.  There are numerous agencies involved in the defence of this country besides DND and the CF.


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## the 48th regulator (1 Nov 2008)

Hi BLS,

Have you made use of this site;

Public Sevice Commision Job Opportunities

DND advertises there, as well as all other Government Departments.  I made good use of it, before I bacame a PSE with DND.

dileas

tess


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## brave little soldier (1 Nov 2008)

Hello, the 48th regulator 

Indeed, I have created a profile on that site and have applied to all positions that I qualify for. This is how I was interviewed and got my name in a pool.

I have also browsed other websites but find that most ads are posted by placement agencies. So I have also registered with one of them.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (2 Nov 2008)

Folks, I cleaned out all the crap in the litter box that was this thread, I don't plan on having to do it again.

This is the only warning.
Thanks,
Bruce


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## brave little soldier (8 Nov 2008)

;D

There is hope : my husband tells me that he might get a contract (sigs) in Kingston upon his return from Kabul... 

Wondering : would cutting my hair for a more mature look help me find a position with DND ?  :


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## Loachman (8 Nov 2008)

NO. And even if it did, it's not worth it.


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## the 48th regulator (8 Nov 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> There is hope : my husband tells me that he might get a contract (sigs) in Kingston upon his return from Kabul...
> 
> Wondering : would cutting my hair for a more mature look help me find a position with DND ?  :



Depends,

What do you look like now?

dileas

tess


(This is for purely professional advice, however any boudoir shots, will gladfully be accepted via PM....)


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## brave little soldier (8 Nov 2008)

???

What do you mean, what do I look like now ? I look like my profile picture...  :-\


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## the 48th regulator (8 Nov 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> What do you mean, what do I look like now ? I look like my profile picture...  :-\



Oh sorry,

I missed the 1x2cm squared dark picture on the left....I thought that was a smudge on the screen. 

dileas

tess


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## armyvern (8 Nov 2008)

Hmmmm,

Competetions that take over a year!!?? Wow.

I'm currently running one here (closed) to make a CR05 Purchasing Assistant pool of qualified candidates.

They wrote their Knowledge Exams (Essential Qualifications) on 22 Oct. Did the interviews with those who passed the KE this week on Thursday & Friday. References for those who made it past the interview stage will occur Monday & Wednesday this coming week. Pool will be set on Thursday containing all the names of those who are successful. Units can then hire as required from that qualified pool.

1 year ... I'm amazed and floored, but somehow - not surprised.  :-\
















Tess ... ya perv!! xoxo


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## daftandbarmy (8 Nov 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> What do you mean, what do I look like now ? I look like my profile picture...  :-\



Suggestion: Put on 30 pounds, dye your hair mousy brown, get horned rimmed specs and a dark, tweed, 3 piece suit that looks like your mum made it for you 15 years ago  ;D


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## Drag (8 Nov 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Hmmmm,
> 
> Competetions that take over a year!!?? Wow.
> 
> ...




Vern, that in my neck of the woods would be considered a brag-worthy hiring time....


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## catalyst (8 Nov 2008)

I have a KE for storesman (er person) on Thursday - not sure what exactly its about but am reading up on my CFSS stuff. It was about 2 weeks between application and screening. 

For my PSP application (still ongoing), I submitted it 31 July and will find out results 12 Nov.


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## brave little soldier (8 Nov 2008)

;D

You mean, I should look like this :


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## armyvern (9 Nov 2008)

Catalyst said:
			
		

> I have a KE for storesman (er person) on Thursday - not sure what exactly its about but am reading up on my CFSS stuff. It was about 2 weeks between application and screening.
> 
> For my PSP application (still ongoing), I submitted it 31 July and will find out results 12 Nov.



Storesman is fine ... That is what "STS" officially means (right from their little table bargaining book) and that's what we call them; not "storespeople" ... just so you know.


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## daftandbarmy (9 Nov 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> You mean, I should look like this :



Yes! However, Canada requires it's employees to know that Africa is a continent, not just a country...


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## brave little soldier (9 Nov 2008)

Yes! However, Canada requires it's employees to know that Africa is a continent, not just a country...

Don't hold it againts her... She had Joe the Plumber on her mind !  :-\


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## Greymatters (9 Nov 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Competetions that take over a year!!?? Wow.



Its quite normal for private sector competitions for support service and managerial positions to last 1-3 months.  Executive level searches can last up to a year of more...


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## Colin Parkinson (10 Nov 2008)

At my department a EG-6 (technical/inspection) level Competition took almost a year to complete, thanks to the moving goalposts provided by HR. Hiring in the civil service is getting silly. A CR (Clerical) postion would likely get filled through a pool.


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## brave little soldier (10 Nov 2008)

Hiring in the civil service is getting silly. 

I was called for an interview while in a pool for an AS2 position ; we determined that I the experience I had in one field was dated. They said they might post the position externally. I indicated that I would be willing to bring myself up to date (a matter of 2-3 weeks) and confirmed that it made sense since starting the hiring process would mean that it would take more than a year to fill out the position. They posted the position externally...  :blotto: I would be up and running have they hired me instead.


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## FastEddy (11 Nov 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> What do you mean, what do I look like now ? I look like my profile picture...  :-\




What the 48th means is that the thumb print picture doesn't do you justice.

If you would post it like you did Palin's, then even he without his glasses could appreciate it. 

Cheers.


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## brave little soldier (11 Nov 2008)

If you would post it like you did Palin's, then even he without his glasses could appreciate it. ;D

You are back, FastEddy !


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## FastEddy (11 Nov 2008)

brave little soldier said:
			
		

> If you would post it like you did Palin's, then even he without his glasses could appreciate it. ;D
> 
> You are back, FastEddy !




Great Picture ! 

Cheers.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (11 Nov 2008)

Darn it Tess, you're foggin' up the internet......


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