# NCM-SEP Med Tech career path



## BorderMedic

Okay, so I am having trouble getting/finding a straight answer of what to expect course wise once done the PCP program and BMQ.

I am about half way done my PCP program and will be going to BMQ in September. But after that is seems to get a bit fuzzy. Some people are telling me I may go for my SQ, some say I go to Borden, some say I skip Borden cause I am taking the PCP program now and I go right into my 18 months of skills? Who or what would be a good resource to get this information?

I have searched this site and the web in general and have come up with nothing thus far, that doesn't mean the info isn't out there, just means I missed it. Are there any Med Tech SEP's from last year who could fill me in?


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## old medic

Should be SQ after BMQ.

There are serious employment limitations without it.


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## BorderMedic

Okay so that's part of the puzzle complete then.


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## cn

I am also finishing my PCP program this year and am in a very similar situation.  

According to talks with my ULO here, once you are done BMQ (as you wait before taking SQ, and possibly after depending on how long it takes to get on the course) you will be sent to CFHSS in Borden to bridge the gap between civvy and CF medicine (as I understand it, part of the OJT).  CFHSS will then decide when/where to go from there.  

That was passed down when we asked at our last briefing.


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## Cansky

You will be required to attend CFHSTC(offical name Can. Forces Health Service Training Center) for your military clinical and field training as well as at some point you will require SQ training.  From there you'll get your first posting.  Don't expect any OJT during this period unless you have time to wait inbetween each course then its only if available positions.


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## BorderMedic

Kirsten Luomala said:
			
		

> You will be required to attend CFHSTC(offical name Can. Forces Health Service Training Center) for your military clinical and field training



So is this the 16 weeks at Borden? which is normally followed by going to the JIBC? Which I assume we skip because we are already taking a PCP program?


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## Cansky

I will clarify this tomorrow from the school but my understanding is the 16 weeks in Borden is separate from the PCP course.  Normally you would do your courses in this order 
1 BMQ
2 SQ
3 Borden clinical phase
4 PCP Chilliwack/Quebec
5 Borden field Phase.

Sep may be run differently however the clinical borden phase is more geared towards the military side of medicine something you will not get from any civilian program.


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## BorderMedic

Thank you for taking the time to look into it, I figured at some point we would need to be shown the proper protocols that are to be used in the CF.


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## PMedMoe

Kirsten Luomala said:
			
		

> You will be required to attend CFHSTC(offical name Can. Forces Health Services Training Center)



Perhaps they should change the sign out front.   :


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## Cansky

Border medic

I have spoken with the QL 3 cell here at the school.  After completion of your SEP PCP program you will be attending the SQ course then coming to Borden to do the in house QL 3 portion of your training.  This will include both a clinical and a field phase.  You will not have to go and do the PCP program as you have already done this.  After you have completed the time required here in Borden you will recieve your Posting assignment.  

Hope this clarifies this for you.


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## BorderMedic

It does indeed thank you, but since you have the resources available to you I wonder if you could answer me another question that has come up?

Do I only require the certificate from the PCP program I am studying in. Or do I require the licence from the province as well?


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## canada94

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> It does indeed thank you, but since you have the resources available to you I wonder if you could answer me another question that has come up?
> 
> Do I only require the certificate from the PCP program I am studying in. Or do I require the licence from the province as well?



In reference to a recruiter I just got off the phone with, a Diploma or a certificate by an Accredited Canadian College is what you need, in Ontario only;

Lambton, Durham and Cambrian are officially accredited according to the recruiter. I don't know where you are from I am just using that as an example.

This is only reference to a recruiter, I am not a member.

Mike


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## mariomike

canada94 said:
			
		

> In reference to a recruiter I just got off the phone with, a Diploma or a certificate by an Accredited Canadian College is what you need, in Ontario only;
> 
> Lambton, Durham and Cambrian are officially accredited according to the recruiter. I don't know where you are from I am just using that as an example.
> 
> This is only reference to a recruiter, I am not a member.
> 
> Mike



I would suggest Ontario SEP PCP program graduates take the MOHLTC AEMCA exam while it is still fresh in your mind:
1) Should you ever decide you wish to work as a PCP in Ontario, AEMCA is mandatory.
2) After QL5 you will be encouraged to take the exam.

Paramedic Association of Ontario:
"Upon completion of the college Primary Care Paramedic program, graduates are eligible to write the Advanced Emergency Medical Care Assistant (A-EMCA) examination. Candidates for the A-EMCA are offered 3 attempts to successfully pass (70% required) the exam before remedial training is required and may work for an ambulance service for up to 210 days while preparing."

ie: After 210 days, if a PCP does not pass AEMCA = s/he is off the road ( and out of a job ) as per The Ambulance Act of Ontario.
After AEMCA comes CPCRT:
http://www.torontoems.ca/main-site/pdf/CPCRT_2011_Info_Package.pdf

This is nothing new. EMCA became mandatory on 1 Aug, 1975 for all new hires after that date. The rest of us were "grand-fathered".

AEMCA is the exam Med Techs from across Canada challenge at Borden, Ontario, after successful completion of QL5:
"Reference A is a confirmation letter by the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, Emergency Health Services Branch, recognizing the CF QL5 Med Tech as meeting the PCP requirements to challenge the AEMCA exam, all QL5 Med Techs are encouraged to prepare for and write this exam with approval through their Chain of Command.  Upon successful completion of this exam, those Med Techs will have access to On-car opportunities to complete their MCSP in Ontario. Med Techs (M) who qualify are also eligible for the writing of the exam."
"It is anticipated that members from Quebec will sit the exam in Ottawa.  Members from outside Ontario/Quebec should write the exam in Borden as the Ministry has agreed to open up a new writing site for the CF and R&Q are available."


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## BorderMedic

I am from Ontario I am taking the PCP program in Winnipeg right now because of the limited seats in Ontario. I would agree that you should try and license after graduating while all is still fresh. Unfortunately sticking around to do so is not always an option, and I am not sure if that is something they would work around or not.


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> I am from Ontario I am taking the PCP program in Winnipeg right now because of the limited seats in Ontario. I would agree that you should try and license after graduating while all is still fresh. Unfortunately sticking around to do so is not always an option, and I am not sure if that is something they would work around or not.



Nice to see that things are working out for you, Border Medic.


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## BorderMedic

mariomike said:
			
		

> Nice to see that things are working out for you, Border Medic.



Not out of the woods yet, but things are getting better. Still recovering from an injury and studying hard. Have about 6 more weeks of class to do then onto the clinicals and rideouts! always the fun part. I'll keep you posted.


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> Not out of the woods yet, but things are getting better. Still recovering from an injury and studying hard. Have about 6 more weeks of class to do then onto the clinicals and rideouts! always the fun part. I'll keep you posted.



I hope you do, because I find it interesting. We did not have ride-outs. The city ( Metro ) just sent you to the old departmental academy for one month of in-service training. Much of it involved light and medium rescue, forcible entry, auto extrication. Other than leather work gloves for car wrecks, and sterile gloves for delivering babies, there was no PPE in those days. Then report to your station, shift, and an experienced partner. All three things were permanent, so that was good. It was especially important to have a permanent partner. We weren't trained in CPR back then. My biggest surprise was how busy it was, but you got used to it. You are right about the fun part.  
Car accidents that today would be minor, because of modern safety equipment, were often serious or fatal back then.

Of course, years of in-service Continuing Medical Education CME followed, and when the Humber College program started, they sent us there. Some senior management men were on my course. Real old school guys trying to keep up with the new and better educated competition. Lot's of funny stories like, "What do they think we are, a bunch of #$%^ing doctors!?"   This came after these same guys gave us a pep talk on "setting an example" to the college students! hahaha
Of course, few seemed to remember that these men were the pioneers of what is now a profession.


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## BorderMedic

It is rather fascinating how far EMS has come in such a short while, they are actually training a group of students at our academy from India. They started Monday, they were telling us that if they do dispatch an ambulance that the janitors from the hospital will actually drive it out grab the person, throw them in the back, and transport them back to the hospital. They have no real EMS system as of yet.

On a side note is the portion of the training at Borden the 16 week part? and then you get posted to a clinic to complete the 18 months of skills? and if this is the case when can you get posted to field ambulance? I was also wondering if anyone wanted to weigh in on field ambulance vs clinic for a medtech?


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> It is rather fascinating how far EMS has come in such a short while, they are actually training a group of students at our academy from India. They started Monday, they were telling us that if they do dispatch an ambulance that the janitors from the hospital will actually drive it out grab the person, throw them in the back, and transport them back to the hospital. They have no real EMS system as of yet.



I am sure you will enjoy your preceptorship. It's an adrenalin rush working the streets for sure. But, it's also an honour to be trusted to help the families, in their homes, during difficult times. 

Edit to add:
The Provincial Certification Course P.C.C. was established in 1968 by the Ontario Ministry of Health. It was a mandatory 160 hour program for all Ontario ambulance services. With the exception of Metro Toronto Department of Emergency Services, which operated its own school, this training took place at CFB Borden. It was not run by the CF, but it was a place where rations and quarters were available for services from all over the province. 
On 1 Aug, 1975 P.C.C. was replaced by the mandatory 1,400 hour EMCA certificate program at the community colleges. EMCA developed into the two-year A-EMCA Diploma. 
In Ontario, all paramedics are A-EMCA.


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## CombatDoc

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> On a side note is the portion of the training at Borden the 16 week part? and then you get posted to a clinic to complete the 18 months of skills? and if this is the case when can you get posted to field ambulance? I was also wondering if anyone wanted to weigh in on field ambulance vs clinic for a medtech?


I'll weigh in.  IMO, every medical trade should be posted to an Army base as their first posting which generally means a Fd Amb.  This allows them to learn the Army way of doing things, field craft,  soldier skills, etc, in addition to time in the medical clinic.  As much field time as possible, keeping in mind a reasonable sea:shore ratio.  Notice that I mention "in addition to time in the medical clinic", meaning those first few years should not be spent only folding canvas and DI'ing vehicles in the Fd Amb bays, nor should they be exclusively clinical.  

It is far easier for someone with some time in the Army to go to a Navy or Air Force environment, including overseas deployments, than vice versa.  After your first 3 years at a Fd Amb, then anywhere in Canada should be open.  I will now don my protective garments for the anticipated rebuttal. ;D


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## Blackadder1916

CombatDoc said:
			
		

> I'll weigh in.  IMO, every medical trade should be posted to an Army base as their first posting which generally means a Fd Amb.  This allows them to learn the Army way of doing things, field craft,  soldier skills, etc, in addition to time in the medical clinic.  As much field time as possible, keeping in mind a reasonable sea:shore ratio.  Notice that I mention "in addition to time in the medical clinic", meaning those first few years should not be spent only folding canvas and DI'ing vehicles in the Fd Amb bays, nor should they be exclusively clinical.
> 
> It is far easier for someone with some time in the Army to go to a Navy or Air Force environment, including overseas deployments, than vice versa.  After your first 3 years at a Fd Amb, then anywhere in Canada should be open.  I will now don my protective garments for the anticipated rebuttal. ;D



Why would you anticipate a rebuttal?  At least from anyone who has any experience.  Anyone who doesn't agree with your conclusions are (IMO) not familiar with the organization and requirements of Canadian military medicine.


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## Armymedic

I agree with Blackadder. No rebuttal. I agree. Your thoughts are conceptionally correct.

The reason it does not happen that way is 2 fold: 

1. every base/clinic/medical facility needs the QL 3 Pte to do the scut work, i.e. medical prelims, basic amb taskings etc.
2. Posting a QL 5 Cpl cost more, therefor it is more economical to post people to the location where they can be employed for 5-8 years on their very first posting from QL3.


Not to insult civilian paramedics like mariomike; but everyone must remember that the very basic level of training and competency we expect from our junior medics QL3 is the same as what most civilian EMT organizations have. Even the more advanced level of AEC for QL5 is the minimum level of training we expect Cpls to achieve. Everyone is expected to grow both clinically and professionally from those basic levels of medical competence.


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## mariomike

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> Not to insult civilian paramedics like mariomike; but everyone must remember that the very basic level of training and competency we expect from our junior medics QL3 is the same as what most civilian EMT organizations have.



Highlight mine - mm.

None taken, Rider Pride. 
I am not familiar with the laws of other provinces. I only worked in Ontario.

Ambulance Act of Ontario:
5.  (1)  The operator of a land ambulance service shall not employ a person to provide patient care, whether on a full-time or part-time basis, or engage a person to provide patient care as a full-time volunteer, unless the person is a paramedic who,

(a) obtained, before January 1, 2002, the qualifications of an emergency medical care assistant referred to in subsection 7 (3); or

(b) holds the qualifications of an advanced emergency medical care assistant referred to in subsection 7 (4). O. Reg. 229/02, s. 1.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_000257_e.htm#BK3

No AEMCA = no job. Not even as a volunteer.

"...CF QL5 Med Tech as meeting the PCP requirements to challenge the AEMCA exam...":
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/hp-ps/mcsp-pmcc/aemca-eng.asp


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## medicineman

The big issue is getting clinical experience when you're being used and abused as nothing but an oil or stores monkey.  I have one young guy working for me that spent his career at 1CFH before arriving here and had been done an ENORMOUS disservice by getting to and beyond his QL5 with next to no clinical experience...he's playing alot of catch up right now.  IMHO, we need to go back to doing formal QL4 courses for med techs that get posted to Fd Ambs, to make the units cough them up and get them into a clinical situation so they don't look at you like a 4 headed alien when you ask them to screen a patient with a cold, forget something more complex.

 :2c:

MM


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## BorderMedic

Okay so I may be to the point of asking dumb questions now, but I still need a small amount of clarification. I get part of the order.

NCM SEP Medtech (me)

1) CMA Accredited PCP program (recognized by the CF)
2) BMQ
3) SQ
4) Borden for field/clinic phase? is this the 16 weeks?
5) I then get posted to a clinic to do the 18 months of skills (MCSP)? Does anybody know the common bases where one would go to do this step?
6) Then receive a posting to go to a base where I start my career so to speak?

And as for Clinic vs Field, my main interest is medicine, and that being said it does not mean that I am in any way against working on and maintaining equipment. I do all my own car repairs including swapping out transmissions, clutches, and a motor once. and have done plenty of work on ambulances from my previous job as well. But I do want my main focus to be medically based.


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## Cansky

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> Okay so I may be to the point of asking dumb questions now, but I still need a small amount of clarification. I get part of the order.
> 
> NCM SEP Medtech (me)
> 
> 1) CMA Accredited PCP program (recognized by the CF)
> 2) BMQ
> 3) SQ
> 4) Borden for field/clinic phase? is this the 16 weeks?
> 5) I then get posted to a clinic to do the 18 months of skills (MCSP)? Does anybody know the common bases where one would go to do this step?
> 6) Then receive a posting to go to a base where I start my career so to speak?
> 
> And as for Clinic vs Field, my main interest is medicine, and that being said it does not mean that I am in any way against working on and maintaining equipment. I do all my own car repairs including swapping out transmissions, clutches, and a motor once. and have done plenty of work on ambulances from my previous job as well. But I do want my main focus to be medically based.



Clinical is about 16 weeks, field is 2-3 weeks so total almost 20 weeks.  Keep in mind this could be over a period of 6 or more months depending on course availability.  You won't be loaded on either of these courses until BMQ and SQ are completed. Due to if you are unsuccessful or get re-coursed then positions on these courses aren't lost.

I'm not sure what you are referring to about 18 months MCSP.  Usually you are posted upon completion of the field phase of QL 3 course and then work at what ever unit you are posted to.  During this time you should be working on your MCSP.  Maybe someone at unit outside the school can clarify this more.  

Being posted to a field unit isn't just about tents, exercise and changing oil.  Its also being part of a field ambulance.  Opportunities to work at a clinic can and should be provided however as mentioned the experience as a soldier gained here will make you a better clinician further down the road.  Not to say that the clinical only medics aren't good, just a good chunk of the petty medics have significant field time under there belts.  You don't want to go to a field unit as a MCpl or higher expected to lead and pass on knowledge to troops without this experience.  Its is significantly more difficult for these pers (not all but a good portion)  Go to a field unit as a Pte get excellent experience and learn with a open mind will help you as a future leader if or when you get there.


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## Armymedic

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> And as for Clinic vs Field, my main interest is medicine, and that being said it does not mean that I am in any way against working on and maintaining equipment. I do all my own car repairs including swapping out transmissions, clutches, and a motor once. and have done plenty of work on ambulances from my previous job as well. But I do want my main focus to be medically based.



I am a PA, completely "medically" based. _*I*_ still worry about making sure that my trucks are good to go, and my shelves are stocked. 

You want to be a medic, part for the job is to be on the truck; in the CF if you drive the truck, you clean the truck, you check the truck, you maintain the truck. If you are on a boat, you clean your sick bay, you maintain your sickbay. If you are in a clinic, you check the stock shelves, you check the equipment, you restock the shelves.

You know who does that work? I can safely say it isnt the PA Warrant Officer like Kirsten or myself. Its you, the brand new Pte QL3 Med Tech.
Don't start whining about the critical support jobs that need to be done by you to be able to provide care to our soldiers even before you get into the CF.


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## BorderMedic

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> Don't start whining about the critical support jobs that need to be done by you to be able to provide care to our soldiers even before you get into the CF.



Really?

So in my last post when I said "it does not mean that I am in any way against working on and maintaining equipment" what I meant was that in any way shape or form I am not personally against cleaning, stocking, maintaining, or even fixing the equipment that I need to. Much like the ambulances that I have cleaned, stocked, maintained, and even fixed while I worked on them.

I simply wanted to know which environment if any, provided a better chance to hone the necessary skills to become an excellent medic. For our troops.


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## PMed

I was posted to a clinic right after my QL3 and at that time Fd Ambs were all about folding sections of mod and DI'ing vehicles and so I felt I "got lucky".  These days medics have even more training and from what I can tell, Fd Ambs aren't only about oil changes and a-frames.  I see medics getting out there doing medical based training as well as learning about the field environment, not to mention the exercises, deployments, etc.  Is one better than the other, I don't know, I would imagine that it depends on the individual and the posting.  But then again, I'm a PMed Tech *toot*toot* so I don't really care as long as those I deal with are knowledgeable in their field and competent, which has nothing to do with where you are posted.


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## BorderMedic

I thank you for the educated response. When I joined, being in the field was where my heart was at, I loved working out on the ambulances in civi land and didn't think I would like being in a clinic as much. But when pretty much every post about Fd Ambs and starting out new says that you get no medical time well then I feel like I may have to rethink my approach. But if the Fd Ambs is providing more medical training than first indicated then sign me up for that, I love being outside, and working with people. I just didn't want to get stuck somewhere with no medical progress, overall I would like to keep training and eventually go for a PA as well.


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## Armymedic

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> I simply wanted to know which environment if any, provided a better chance to hone the necessary skills to become an excellent medic. For our troops.



Then go to a Fd Amb.

Its called "paying your dues". Either you pay them up front or you get burned paying them later. There is a very simple reason young QL3 Pte Med Techs get sent to Fd Ambs. Its cause you can't do much of anything medical without direct and constant supervision, except work on an ambulance. And the opportunity to do more (i.e. operational tours, MCSP, courses) is presented most frequently at the Fd Ambs.

edit to add: BTW, to end this discussion; you'll go where the career manager tells you, because as a QL3, you get very little to no say as to where your first posting will be.


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## BorderMedic

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> Then go to a Fd Amb.
> 
> Its called "paying your dues".



I am fully aware of what paying your dues means, I'm not sure at which point during my posts that you decided I was trying to get away without having to start at the bottom. But if you take the time to read back there are a number of post that say that the Fd Ambs Pte's do little to no medical training while the clinic bound one's do, so I would think that you would have to appreciate my inquiry as to which one may provide more medical training.... Heck even just three post ago SMRT can be quoted as saying that he felt he "got lucky" to be posted to a clinic. Now thankfully he also goes on to say that the medics in the field seem to be receiving more medical training which I am very excited about and also that its good to get the field training in early instead of later. Yet another tidbit of information that I think weighs in nicely on the topic, and something I did not think of.

I am curious now though, did you join as a med tech? and work towards your PA? and did you start with a Fd Ambs or clinic?


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## Armymedic

15 yrs as medic. First 2yrs in Fd Amb as both amb crew and med det. Then just before my QL 5, posted into the UMS/CDU's, with the exception of 2 yrs back to Fd Amb as a MCpl Det Comd. The off to PA course.

Things are not at all the same as they were before, and SMRT's example does not define that for you either. MCSP, sim centers, operational tours for QL3's and the change from medics being posted to units vs being administered by central medical units in the last eight years has negated any difference between "field" and "clinic". Bonus, you get paid more to be in a Fd Amb, thanks (for now) to Land Duty Allowance.


Discussion is mute because as I said before:

You'll go where the career manager tells you, because as a QL3, you get very little to no say as to where your first posting will be.


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## BorderMedic

I thank you for your answers, but I do disagree that the discussion is mute, I was inquiring into which one was better for your medical career. Not which one I would get to choose, and thanks to answers from yourself and others most of the "bad things" that I always hear about Fd Ambs turn out to be not really so "bad" at all.

I know full well that I have very little choice where my wife and I will be sent, and we both look forward to getting posted anywhere they send us. On a side note I would love to hear what you think of the PA course and about being a PA? it is long term goal of mine.


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## CombatDoc

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> Then go to a Fd Amb.
> 
> Its called "paying your dues". Either you pay them up front or you get burned paying them later. There is a very simple reason young QL3 Pte Med Techs get sent to Fd Ambs. Its cause you can't do much of anything medical without direct and constant supervision, except work on an ambulance. And the opportunity to do more (i.e. operational tours, MCSP, courses) is presented most frequently at the Fd Ambs.


Rider Pride has provided some excellent advice.  For example, on the current Roto deployed to Afghanistan the majority of the Med Techs come from 5e Amb de c (aka 5 Fd Amb).  They account for around 75-80% of the medics, with the rest coming from units across Canada which include 1 Fd Amb and 2 Fd Amb.  By far the smallest number come from CF Health Service Centres (i.e. clinics).  My example may be partially skewed by the unique language requirements of a Franco tour, but goes to show that if you want to deploy, go to a Fd Amb which is usually going to be the force generator for operations.

The PCP qualification has really "levelled the playing field" for Reg Force QL3 and reserve QL4 Med Techs, allowing them to operate Outside the Wire in a manner that would not have been possible 10 years ago.  The corollary is our concern over how to best employ these folks in a clinic setting once they return from deployment.  IMO, the CDU concept makes it challenging to fully employ Med Techs as clinicians and the temptation is for them to be given the scut jobs.


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## Armymedic

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> I thank you for your answers, but I do disagree that the discussion is mute, I was inquiring into which one was better for your medical career.



What is best for your military career as well as your medical career, is not where you are posted, but how well you perform when you are there.


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## BorderMedic

I agree, and now that I understand a bit more about both environments I am rather excited about being sent to a Fd Ambs if thats what happens. My main fear was not practicing any medicine and loosing what I have learned already, and after reading on this forum for a little while I started to get that impression about being in the field and wanted to know if that was really true. It seems it isn't really true now and thats good.

I suppose depending on where I get posted I could always do some civi part time shifts on an ambulance service just to help stay sharp as well, if time permits of course.


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> I suppose depending on where I get posted I could always do some civi part time shifts on an ambulance service just to help stay sharp as well, if time permits of course.



Assuming you receive licensure from the provincial regulator of where you wish to work, there are some concerns to be aware of. To avoid a conflict of interest, ask your potential part-time employer ( also check the Ambulance Act and collective agreement ) about mandated "emergency overtime" ( by definition,  _everything_  in EMS is an "emergency" ), "end of shift overtime", "call back", "standby" "change of shift", "change of station" and my least favorite, "change of vacation". However, I must say that the situation has improved greatly over the way things used to be.
The ones who get hit hardest are still those with the lowest seniority. I would assume that would include part-timers.

That is, one of the reasons, why the city I worked for has never hired part-timers. Under municipal law, their definition of "civilian" excludes members sworn into the emergency services.
( Although I know rural Ontario relies heavily on part-timers. )


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## BorderMedic

The PCP program I am currently enrolled in is CMA accredited which from what I understand allows me to license in other provinces a little easier than before. For Ontario I will still need to test for my license, but there are less hoops to jump through to get to that point.

As for finding a service, it of course is completely based on where I am posted, there are also private services if I am unable to find a municipal one to work with, I have asked around a bit and have heard of a few Med Techs that do the same.


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## Cansky

Remember if you wish to moonlight outside the CF you MUST have your CO's approval.  There are QR&O's that regulate this.  I would ask when you arrive at you first unit.  Most units do have a MCSP program set up for you to do amb ride along time.  This is not a paid benefit meaning the civi service is not paying you above you CF pay.


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## BorderMedic

Yes I did mean to "moonlight" with proper permission of course. I had heard of some other Med Techs doing the same and thought it was a good way to keep skills in check. 

Umm so what is a QR&O?

Also I think Mariomike mentioned earlier that only the QL5 medics could do ride alongs to maintain skills, I have a ways until that point, but if I can get permission I think doing some civi EMS shifts would only benefit in the long run.


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## medicineman

QR&O = Queen's Regulations and Orders - regulations we have to live and work by.

MM


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## BorderMedic

Ah I see, yes well plenty of time to figure that out as well, just heard the idea from some other Med Techs and thought it was a good idea. The recruiter also mentioned it as a possibly when I signed up, but that it of course had to be cleared with my CO before hand.


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## Cansky

Here in Borden, ON we have sent QL3's to Toronto to do ride alongs.  But as you said its still early and you still have up to another year of training to do before your at that point.


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## mariomike

BorderMedic said:
			
		

> For Ontario I will still need to test for my license, but there are less hoops to jump through to get to that point.



After AEMCA comes CPCRT:
http://www.torontoems.ca/main-site/pdf/CPCRT_2011_Info_Package.pdf



			
				BorderMedic said:
			
		

> <snip> there are also private services if I am unable to find a municipal one to work with, I have asked around a bit and have heard of a few Med Techs that do the same.



Private companies can be contracted for dedicated on-site standby service at events. So is Saint John's Ambulance. Racetracks are an example.
However, only municipal ambulances are licenced to transport patients off the property.
"We are the sole ambulance provider within the City of Toronto boundaries that is licensed to transport patients in an emergency situation (under the Ambulance Act of Ontario).":
http://www.torontoems.ca/main-site/service/on-site.html


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## BorderMedic

Well that is even better, I was under the impression it was only the QL5's that were able to do so. 

And yes Mariomike I have done some volunteering with such private company's we had fully loaded ambulances but were not allowed to transfer as you said. We would stabilize them on scene and then usually just drive them to the front of the property and transfer them to a city EMS unit upon their arrival. Not quite as fun as being on the road, but it had its moments.


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## mariomike

Kirsten Luomala said:
			
		

> Here in Borden, ON we have sent QL3's to Toronto to do ride alongs.





			
				BorderMedic said:
			
		

> Well that is even better, I was under the impression it was only the QL5's that were able to do so.



Perhaps that was before the item ( below ) from CFHS was dated:
"Date Modified: 2011-01-10":
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/hp-ps/mcsp-pmcc/aemca-eng.asp
"Upon successful completion of this exam, those Med Techs will have access to On-car opportunities to complete their MCSP in Ontario."


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## ArmyGuy99

No matter where you are sent, there are aspects of any posting you will like, and dislike.  

Speaking from the CDU side of the house, we have 2 QL3's in the clinic (myself included) and we work in our full Clinical Scope of Practice.  We screen patients and do exams, then head straight for a QL5 for signature's, and treatment orders, or to one of our clinicians.  We also do wart parade, dressing changes, blood draw, Part 1 Medical Exams and anything that needs to be done that we can be trusted with.

Work hard, play hard >, and don't piss your Master Corporal off  ;D, and you'll have a great time no matter where you are. 

And yes Fd Amb Medics make more money because they get the Land Duty Allowance.   :crybaby:


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## DiverMedic

mariomike said:
			
		

> AEMCA is the exam Med Techs from across Canada challenge at Borden, Ontario, after successful completion of QL5:
> "Reference A is a confirmation letter by the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, Emergency Health Services Branch, recognizing the CF QL5 Med Tech as meeting the PCP requirements to challenge the AEMCA exam, all QL5 Med Techs are encouraged to prepare for and write this exam with approval through their Chain of Command.  Upon successful completion of this exam, those Med Techs will have access to On-car opportunities to complete their MCSP in Ontario. Med Techs (M) who qualify are also eligible for the writing of the exam."
> "It is anticipated that members from Quebec will sit the exam in Ottawa.  Members from outside Ontario/Quebec should write the exam in Borden as the Ministry has agreed to open up a new writing site for the CF and R&Q are available."



FYI, we do not challenge the AEMCA after the course.  Just the OJT medication exam...unless things have changed in the last year...

We do have the option of challenging it tho with more ease.

DM


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