# 28 Palestinians killed in Gaza as Israel hits Hamas with airstrikes; rockets kill 3 Israelis



## Colin Parkinson (11 May 2021)

Pretty typical, Hamas does not value live Palestinians, they are worth more dead. So Arabs have dryly calculated that one is Israeli is worth 6 Palestinians to Hamas and the other Arab leaders. When i posted about the Chinese rocket falling to earth, my Israeli friend said "please that's just a slow weekend here". Apparently 300 rockets have been fired at Israel this year so far.


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## Good2Golf (11 May 2021)

Hamasiran definitely gave Iron Dome a workout...


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## medic5 (11 May 2021)

Iron dome has to be the most tested defence system in the world from all of these attacks. 

Something of note is that people my age (I'm 16) vastly sympathize with the Palestinians for some reason, which I can't quite understand why. Lots of performative activism and hashtags on social media platforms, along with some pretty insane messaging.


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## MilEME09 (11 May 2021)

Considering this all started with Israel taking out a high ranking hamas commander, leading to the massive rocket attack to overwhelm the irondome system. One rocket hit the presidential palace garage, Hamas gunmen have taken to the streets of Lod and in gun battles with police.

This has the markings of a new major conflict


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## Colin Parkinson (11 May 2021)

Youth are generally attracted to what they perceive as underdogs, that's a natural starting point to a worldly education. The palestinians have pretty much shot themselves in the foot with every major Arab nation, who have grown tired of their failure to create a future with what they have. About the only people that care about them now are Malaysians (who live far away and can romanticize about them, while hating their Indonesian Muslim Brothers) and western upper middle class people with to much time on their hands. for Hamas a Palestinian killed by the IDF is worth way more than a live Palestinian complaining about a lack of work, education and possibility of working elsewhere. Hamas hates the mundane grind of running a functioning government, instead spends it's time fantasising how they are going to destroy the State of Israel and abusing the efforts of the UN. The UN meanwhile is the biggest enabler of the palestinians fantasy, because if the Palestinians dropped the rockets, support for the MB and focused on education and jobs, the Egyptian border would open up and work would happen and there would be no future for the UNRWA and all those people would lose their cushy jobs and have to go work in some flea bitten part of the world.


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## Weinie (11 May 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> *Considering this all started with Israel taking out a high ranking hamas commander*, leading to the massive rocket attack to overwhelm the irondome system. One rocket hit the presidential palace garage, Hamas gunmen have taken to the streets of Lod and in gun battles with police.
> 
> This has the markings of a new major conflict


Not according to these stories

Gaza militants, Israel trade new rocket fire and airstrikes

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-airstrikes-gaza-rockets-hamas-palestinians-1.5123653


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## Kilted (11 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> Iron dome has to be the most tested defence system in the world from all of these attacks.
> 
> Something of note is that people my age (I'm 16) vastly sympathize with the Palestinians for some reason, which I can't quite understand why. Lots of performative activism and hashtags on social media platforms, along with some pretty insane messaging.


I think that there may be a bit of anti-Semitism in there as well.


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## MilEME09 (11 May 2021)

Weinie said:


> Not according to this story:
> 
> Gaza militants, Israel trade new rocket fire and airstrikes





			Redirect Notice
		


I stand corrected by you and other sources. This cycle of violence just continues over and over.


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## Weinie (11 May 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> I stand corrected by you and other sources. This cycle of violence just continues over and over.


It is a shit show.


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## medic5 (11 May 2021)

Hamas launches rockets --> IDF launches air strikes --> Hamas launches more rockets --> IDF strikes more targets

How can this cycle ever end?


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## MilEME09 (11 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> Hamas launches rockets --> IDF launches air strikes --> Hamas launches more rockets --> IDF strikes more targets
> 
> How can this cycle ever end?


Israel could at any time level Gaza, but they won't. It would take the people of Gaza loosing the hearts and minds of the people, they need to turn on  hamas. There are plenty of Palestinians who live and coexist in Israel, they can be peaceful together.


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## medic5 (11 May 2021)

Kilted said:


> I think that there may be a bit of anti-Semitism in there as well.


The weirdest part which I struggle to understand is the same people who virtue signal about "Free Palestine" were also the same people preaching anti-racism about a week ago. I struggle to understand the logic and thinking process of my generation.


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## medic5 (11 May 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> Israel could at any time level Gaza, but they won't. It would take the people of Gaza loosing the hearts and minds of the people, they need to turn on  hamas. There are plenty of Palestinians who live and coexist in Israel, they can be peaceful together.


I'm extremely uninformed about this entire area, any books or writing you would recommend? 

Why does Israel allow Hamas in Gaza to continue launching rockets at their cities? Hell, the IDF could probably take the entire West Bank in a month. Why not? Fear of international condemnation? What is the point of this settler strategy? Slowly build outposts until there is nothing but outposts? What am I missing?


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## MilEME09 (11 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> I'm extremely uninformed about this entire area, any books or writing you would recommend?
> 
> Why does Israel allow Hamas in Gaza to continue launching rockets at their cities? Hell, the IDF could probably take the entire West Bank in a month. Why not? Fear of international condemnation? What is the point of this settler strategy? Slowly build outposts until there is nothing but outposts? What am I missing?


No books I can recommend, however on your second point, any prolonged ground war into Gaza is nearly suicidal, streets are too narrow for armour support, the casualties to try and go house to house to eliminate hamas would be way to high. Combined with the international condemnation if they did would only further hurt them.


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## medic5 (11 May 2021)

Looking at a map of the area makes me thankful Canada has no enemies within 8,000 km.

It feels like the IDF is more casualty-averse than ever, and flattening the whole area is not really an option.


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## Colin Parkinson (11 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> I'm extremely uninformed about this entire area, any books or writing you would recommend?
> 
> Why does Israel allow Hamas in Gaza to continue launching rockets at their cities? Hell, the IDF could probably take the entire West Bank in a month. Why not? Fear of international condemnation? What is the point of this settler strategy? Slowly build outposts until there is nothing but outposts? What am I missing?


Demographics loom large in this area, it plays a major geopolitics role since 1948 and go back to the Roman occupation of Judea. Both side stretch the truth, the Palestinian more so than the Israelis. The difference being a Israeli can argue on behalf of the Palestinians without fear, whereas anyone living in Gaza and to a lesser extent West Bank showing any desire to negotiate in Gaza is considered a traitor by the nutbars, with predictable results. 

Here is a few tidbits
Black September - Wikipedia









						How do Palestinians see the Syrian war?
					

A complex set of factors is shaping Palestinian attitudes towards Syria.




					www.aljazeera.com
				












						Syria: Palestinians flee fighting in Yarmouk refugee camp
					

Families flee intense fighting in the Palestinian Yarmouk refugee camp in the Syrian capital Damascus, say officials.



					www.bbc.com
				






This one








						Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Requires the posting of this, which also predicts the failures of the current PC culture:


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## Colin Parkinson (11 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> Looking at a map of the area makes me thankful Canada has no enemies within 8,000 km.
> 
> It feels like the IDF is more casualty-averse than ever, and flattening the whole area is not really an option.


Also the IDF has turned to using semi-auto .22's to injury rioters in the leg, avoiding the calls for vengeance and condemnation for killing 16 year sacrificial lambs (as in kids). 

Also welcome to pallywood


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## Staff Weenie (11 May 2021)

There was an old statement, apparently attributed to Israeli diplomat Abba Eben some 45 years ago, that the Palestinians, 'never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.' In analyzing the situation, one also has to remember that the neighbouring Arab states have long had a vested interest in keeping the Palestinians disenfranchised and angry. It was long a means for waging a war against Israel by proxy. Then, it was the Soviets, who saw a way to poke at the US through attacks on a staunch ally. While many states such as Egypt and Jordan have normalized relations, Iran has taken over the role of continuing the proxy war. Hamas needs to please their Iranian overlords to keep the money flowing. To do this, they must keep Gaza miserable. Consider the timing with the recent cyber attack on the Iranian nuclear site, and the promised threats of retaliation against Israel. Making matters worse for generations, the UN falls for it every time, and Western liberals wag their fingers in scorn.


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## medic5 (11 May 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Demographics loom large in this area, it plays a major geopolitics role since 1948 and go back to the Roman occupation of Judea. Both side stretch the truth, the Palestinian more so than the Israelis. The difference being a Israeli can argue on behalf of the Palestinians without fear, whereas anyone living in Gaza and to a lesser extent West Bank showing any desire to negotiate in Gaza is considered a traitor by the nutbars, with predictable results.


Who knew living under a terror group would lead to such results? Better to be a Palestinian living in Israel than an Israeli living in Palestine. 


Staff Weenie said:


> There was an old statement, apparently attributed to Israeli diplomat Abba Eben some 45 years ago, that the Palestinians, 'never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.' In analyzing the situation, one also has to remember that the neighbouring Arab states have long had a vested interest in keeping the Palestinians disenfranchised and angry. It was long a means for waging a war against Israel by proxy. Then, it was the Soviets, who saw a way to poke at the US through attacks on a staunch ally. While many states such as Egypt and Jordan have normalized relations, Iran has taken over the role of continuing the proxy war. Hamas needs to please their Iranian overlords to keep the money flowing. To do this, they must keep Gaza miserable. Consider the timing with the recent cyber attack on the Iranian nuclear site, and the promised threats of retaliation against Israel. Making matters worse for generations, the UN falls for it every time, and Western liberals wag their fingers in scorn.


The recent peace deal between Israel and the UAE sounds exactly like what you are describing. Arab states now have less of an interest of trying to fight with Israel, instead focusing on an anti-Iranian alliance. Why does the UN keep doing the most counterintuitive things ever?


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## MilEME09 (11 May 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Also the IDF has turned to using semi-auto .22's to injury rioters in the leg, avoiding the calls for vengeance and condemnation for killing 16 year sacrificial lambs (as in kids).
> 
> Also welcome to pallywood


bad parenting right there, they deliberately send their children to scream, shout, and push those troops while they film the whole thing hoping for a negative reaction.


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## Jarnhamar (12 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> Who knew living under a terror group would lead to such results? Better to be a Palestinian living in Israel than an Israeli living in Palestine.
> 
> The recent peace deal between Israel and the UAE sounds exactly like what you are describing. Arab states now have less of an interest of trying to fight with Israel, instead focusing on an anti-Iranian alliance. Why does the UN keep doing the most counterintuitive things ever?


Have to hand it to you medic5 you're very articulate for 16. You seem to grasp the situation better than many adults.


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## Furniture (12 May 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> bad parenting right there, they deliberately send their children to scream, shout, and push those troops while they film the whole thing hoping for a negative reaction.


It takes a real hero to shove their kids into the faces of the "enemy" troops... 

I was impressed by the restraint of the IDF troops, kids grabbing at their weapons were just laughed at. I have a feeling most other westernized troops wouldn't be so kind, though I'm sure if exposed to it often enough they could learn.


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## medic5 (12 May 2021)

Furniture said:


> It takes a real hero to shove their kids into the faces of the "enemy" troops...


Same thing as Hamas having their headquarters under a hospital because they know the Israelis won't attack.


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## Colin Parkinson (12 May 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> bad parenting right there, they deliberately send their children to scream, shout, and push those troops while they film the whole thing hoping for a negative reaction.


As the saying goes, there will be peace in the ME when Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Israelis.


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## MilEME09 (12 May 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> As the saying goes, there will be peace in the ME when Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Israelis.


This latest conflict shows how important the social media game is, you look at any post about the current conflict and its filled with anti Israel messages by accounts created recently. Hamas and others know just as well as us how important the information war is.


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## Good2Golf (12 May 2021)

It’ll keep going so long as the Arabs are content to see Israel hand it back to Iran via Hamas.  Sadly the Palestinians are the pawns in the latest ME proxy war chapter.


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## MilEME09 (12 May 2021)

According to a friend of mine over there Israel has sent SoF into Gaza, and their general staff have said the only acceptable outcome is the complete surrender of Hamas.


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## Kilted (12 May 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> According to a friend of mine over there Israel has sent SoF into Gaza, and their general staff have said the only acceptable outcome is the complete surrender of Hamas.


If the rest of the Arab world won't get involved it's the best time for it.  Gaza is densely populated which would make action by ground forces difficult.


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## MilEME09 (12 May 2021)

Kilted said:


> If the rest of the Arab world won't get involved it's the best time for it.  Gaza is densely populated which would make action by ground forces difficult.


Depends on the strategy, they might start with targeting raids to eliminate the leadership, destroy weapons caches, etc... I would imagine if a large ground offensive is in the works then their reserves are already mobilized, and the operation is being planned out.


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## Brad Sallows (12 May 2021)

"28 Palestinians killed in Gaza as Israel hits Hamas with airstrikes; rockets kill 3 Israelis"

That title is why things go on and on.  The rockets preceded the airstrikes, but most people would not infer that from the order of the statements.


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## dimsum (12 May 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> "28 Palestinians killed in Gaza as Israel hits Hamas with airstrikes; rockets kill 3 Israelis"
> 
> That title is why things go on and on.  The rockets preceded the airstrikes, but most people would not infer that from the order of the statements.


There was also the footage of the Iron Dome intercepting not a small number of things going inbound.


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## OldSolduer (12 May 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> "28 Palestinians killed in Gaza as Israel hits Hamas with airstrikes; rockets kill 3 Israelis"
> 
> That title is why things go on and on.  The rockets preceded the airstrikes, but most people would not infer that from the order of the statements.


I had a discussion with a co worker a number of years ago about this very conflict. Her thoughts were the Israelis were at fault and shouldn't do such things.
Such is the sad state of education about the Holocaust.


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## medic5 (12 May 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> "28 Palestinians killed in Gaza as Israel hits Hamas with airstrikes; rockets kill 3 Israelis"
> 
> That title is why things go on and on.  The rockets preceded the airstrikes, but most people would not infer that from the order of the statements.


Interesting title coming from CBC, a taxpayer funded organization. 

Regarding the social media war, this is completely true. The Israelis are losing it. Say something pro Israel on Twitter or Reddit? Prepare to be sent a lot of polite replies. It's even more pronounced within younger generations, my classmates don't even understand who or what Hamas is, just read the headline then repost with some sort of outraged line. 

I've attached some screenshots of what I've seen my peers repost, and I am quite shocked to say the least. How did Hamas get the younger population to side with a terror group that regularly launches rockets against civilians?


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## dimsum (12 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> How did Hamas get the younger population to side with a terror group that regularly launches rockets against civilians?


Simple.  They don't talk about the "launching rockets against civilians" part.


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## Retired AF Guy (12 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> I'm extremely uninformed about this entire area, any books or writing you would recommend?


If you took all the paper from all the trees that were made into books written about the Israeli-Arab conflict you could cover most of North America. But, I will make some recommendations:


_Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict 1881 - 2001 _by Benny Morris;
_A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East _by David Fromkin;
_One Palestine Complete: Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate _by Tom Segev; and,
*_ Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel's Targeted Assassinations _by Ronen Bergman.

While the first three cover different time periods, there is overlap and any one of them will give you a good background on the conflict.

The last one, _Rise and Kill First, _gives you an in-depth account of Israel's responses to Arab terrorist attacks. Hint: it doesn't usually idea well for people who get on Israel's bad side. There is also a  chapter on how after WW2 Israel went after some of the Nazi's responsible for the Holocaust.


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## Jarnhamar (12 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> I've attached some screenshots of what I've seen my peers repost, and I am quite shocked to say the least. How did Hamas get the younger population to side with a terror group that regularly launches rockets against civilians?


Looks like your peers reposted from @eye.on.palestein instagram's post from 3 days ago.


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## Edward Campbell (13 May 2021)

For all that we may say about the GOB (the Great Orange Buffoon AKA Donald J Trump), and heaven knows I've said a lot, almost all of it unpleasant, he did organize or manage or facilitate or, maybe, just stand aside for the Abraham Accords which have normalized diplomatic relations between Israel and several Sunni Muslim Arab states. We, and that includes me, have not given enough credit for that.

The argument against the Abraham Accords is that they are just a formal recognition of the strategic reality. For the Sunni Arabs Israel is an unwelcome neighbour, a stone in the shoe, so to say, something you wish wasn't there but which is not an existential threat. Iran is the reverse, for the Saudi-led Sunnis. So the enemy of my enemy and all that, right? There is, I think, a bit more than that at play but I agree that is the base for the Sunni Arabs' strategic calculus.

Iran "values" Israel as an enemy. It can argue that it is arming against and acting against the Jews when, in fact, it is pursuing its strategic aims in the ongoing Islamic civil war. 

There are some outliers, of course: America, Pakistan (because it has nuclear weapons ~ the so-called Muslim bomb) and because of Pakistan India and China, too.

But, both the Sunni Arabs and the Iranians are united on one issue: the Palestinians are expendable.


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## OldSolduer (13 May 2021)

Retired AF Guy said:


> If you took all the paper from all the trees that were made into books written about the Israeli-Arab conflict you could cover most of North America. But, I will make some recommendations:
> 
> 
> _Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict 1881 - 2001 _by Benny Morris;
> ...


The Podcast `The Good Assassin` is worth listening to. It gives you some background on how effective the Israelis can be.


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## MilEME09 (13 May 2021)

For some context of the situation, here is a photo my friend shared with me of the aftermath of a strike on Hamas's tunnel network, causing the road to collapse.


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## medic5 (13 May 2021)

The Guardian
Israel’s military says ground troops have begun to attack Gaza – follow updates
Latest news as IDF confirm ground troops attacking the Gaza Strip. It is not yet clear whether the operation is a full-scale invasion.
9 mins ago

Seems like the IDF is escalating.


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## MilEME09 (13 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> The Guardian
> Israel’s military says ground troops have begun to attack Gaza – follow updates
> Latest news as IDF confirm ground troops attacking the Gaza Strip. It is not yet clear whether the operation is a full-scale invasion.
> 9 mins ago
> ...


I wouldn't call it an escalation per say given no ground offensive into Gaza has been launched. Just increased strikes onto hamas targets, including door knock strikes on command and control facilities hiding in apartment complexes


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## medic5 (13 May 2021)

Seeing lots of videos of increased air strikes, perhaps this is a prelude to a ground invasion? I'm just speculating at this point though.


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## Kilted (14 May 2021)

medic5 said:


> Seeing lots of videos of increased air strikes, perhaps this is a prelude to a ground invasion? I'm just speculating at this point though.


I've heard speculation that Isreal hasn't deployed a large enough force to the area to support an invasion at this point.  But then again, we'll see what has happened by the time we wake up tommorrow.


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## Colin Parkinson (14 May 2021)

The IDF can leak they are going in and see how Hamas reacts and listen in on their comms, then keep them on their toes for a couple of days and then strike.


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## Edward Campbell (14 May 2021)

I read elsewhere, this morning, that the "ground attack" was mainly a ruse to get the Hamas "fighters" to take refuge in tunnels (the locations of which are well known to the IDF) that were then attacked and destroyed.


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## MilEME09 (14 May 2021)

Edward Campbell said:


> I read elsewhere, this morning, that the "ground attack" was mainly a ruse to get the Hamas "fighters" to take refuge in tunnels (the locations of which are well known to the IDF) that were then attacked and destroyed.


Yeap and here's the result


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## Edward Campbell (14 May 2021)

More: A Press Corps Deceived, and the Gaza Invasion That Wasn’t


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## Jarnhamar (14 May 2021)

Edward Campbell said:


> I read elsewhere, this morning, that the "ground attack" was mainly a ruse to get the Hamas "fighters" to take refuge in tunnels (the locations of which are well known to the IDF) that were then attacked and destroyed.


Like General Schwarzkopf using the media to make Saddam expect an amphibious invasion.

Pretty clever.


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## Colin Parkinson (14 May 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> Yeap and here's the result


looks like they saved Hamas a bundle on burials


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## Jarnhamar (14 May 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> looks like they saved Hamas a bundle on burials


_Grave diggers hate this one trick._


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## daftandbarmy (16 May 2021)

An interesting background snapshot on Hamas:

Who is Hamas? Who supports Hamas? What you need to know​Hamas has controlled the Gaza Strip since 2007, repeatedly attacking Israel. It has a number of foreign allies. But where does the terror group get the money and supplies to do it?

The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated territories in the world. Its tightly controlled land borders with Israel and Egypt, along with its maritime border, have largely isolated its economy. Large parts of the population in Gaza live in dire poverty and depend on humanitarian support from abroad.

Hamas often fires rockets at Israel from within residential areas and operates command posts in apartment blocks. The practice effectively uses civilians as human shields. Hamas has been secretly digging underground tunnels to smuggle arms into the enclave, chiefly from Egypt. The Egyptian government, however, has been clamping down on this activity.









						What is Hamas and who supports it? – DW – 05/15/2021
					

Hamas has controlled the Gaza Strip since 2007, repeatedly attacking Israel. It has a number of foreign allies. But where does the terror group get the money and supplies to do it?




					www.dw.com


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