# 22 dead in Iraq, 72 wounded



## Peace_Keeper (22 Dec 2004)

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/12/22/iraq-US041222.html


Last Updated Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:40:56 EST 
BAGHDAD - A suicide bomber was likely responsible for the attack that killed 18 Americans and four Iraqis at a base in northern Iraq, a top Pentagon official confirmed Wednesday. 

The explosion on Tuesday ripped out the roof of the mess tent at Marez base. (AP Photo/Richmond Times-Dispatch, Dean Hoffmeyer)  
The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, said it appears the blast which ripped through a mess tent at Base Marez was caused by an "improvised explosive device worn by an attacker." 

U.S. troops have shut down bridges and sealed off neighbourhoods in the northern Iraqi city as they hunt for suspects. 

Soldiers blocked five major bridges and searched house to house in some districts in Mosul on Wednesday, one day after the deadly attack. 


Initial reports said a 122-mm rocket slammed through the tent's ceiling and sprayed shrapnel at soldiers eating lunch. 

But a radical Sunni Muslim group that claimed responsibility for the attack, the Ansar al-Sunnah Army, called it a "martyrdom operation," implying that a suicide bomber struck the mess hall. 

The blast killed 18 Americans â â€œ 14 soldiers and four civilian contractors â â€œ and four Iraqis, the U.S. military command in Baghdad said Wednesday. 

Fifty-one U.S. military personnel were among the wounded, which also included American civilians, Iraqi troops and other foreigners. 

  
Workers and U.S. soldiers tend to people injured in the blast. (AP Photo/Richmond Times-Dispatch, Dean Hoffmeyer)  
Among the dead are four employees and three subcontractors of Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton Co., a supplier to oil and gas companies, said company spokesperson Wendy Hall. 

Doctors at the military hospital near Mosul treated dozens of soldiers for burns, shrapnel wounds and eye injuries. 

The explosion capped a week of deadly attacks across Iraq that showed the increasing power of insurgents before the national elections scheduled for Jan. 30. 

President George W. Bush vowed on Tuesday that the deaths would not set back the election, telling the victims' relatives that their loved ones died on "a vital mission for peace." 

"I'm confident democracy will prevail in Iraq," he said. 

Iraq's interim prime minister Ayad Allawi said those responsible for the attack also want to stir up sectarian civil war. 


Mosul, which lies about 360 kilometres north of Baghdad, has seen mounting attacks by militants in the past year, especially after a U.S.-led offensive on insurgents in Fallujah in November. 

Written by CBC News Online 

Mod. edit: just added the text


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## 2FERSapper (22 Dec 2004)

Ya saw this on the news. I believe the phrase that was constantly being used by reporters was something along the lines of if the Americans cant secure their own bases what chances do they have of securing the polls for a election. What a mess, should be intresting to see what the final say is on what caused the explosion.


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## jmackenzie_15 (22 Dec 2004)

whats more disturbing about the security issue is, the current theory coming out of iraq on cnn is that there was a bomb placed inside the mess hall... not an attack from an RPG or mortar.... so someone infiltrated the base.That or one of the soldiers snapped, who knows.


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## Edward Campbell (22 Dec 2004)

jmackenzie_15 said:
			
		

> whats more disturbing about the security issue is, the current theory coming out of iraq on cnn is that there was a bomb placed inside the mess hall... not an attack from an RPG or mortar.... so someone infiltrated the base.That or one of the soldiers snapped, who knows.



It may also be that locally engaged, contract support employees are a threat.   I have been supporting the use of private sector people to do admin and support tasks.   See: http://army.ca/forums/threads/23755.15.html and George Wallace, amongst others, has been arguing that we need fewer of them   If this is an _inside job_ then my argument takes a big hit ... maybe pot _walloping_ in the admin area is a vital military requirement.


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## Meridian (22 Dec 2004)

As someone who admittedly knows nothing about the setup of military bases in theatre, Im curious... is the mess hall not one of those places you have centrally located and far away from the main fences?

The news made it seem like the mess tent was setup in the middle of the city on a major street.


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## jmackenzie_15 (22 Dec 2004)

all the mess halls ive ever been to were far enough away from the main gates that hitting it with an RPG would have to be one hell of a shot, or an impossible one.Depends on how big the camp is.... if its the size of gagetown, forget about it.But none of us have seen the inside of that american camp, so who knows.


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## Michael Dorosh (22 Dec 2004)

A friend of a friend is working in the same camp right now; after a 24 hour delay, he finally got in touch with his wife to tell her he was ok.  Spooky.


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## Meridian (22 Dec 2004)

I would imagine there was a large rush to the sat-phones to contact love ones after that made the news!
Sadly I think the US and the world is starting to grow "used" to the body counts....


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## 1feral1 (22 Dec 2004)

It was about 24hrs ago when I first heard the news (its 0630 now here on Thus, 23 Dec. Anyways, I just cringed. They say here 15 US soldiers, 4 Us contractors, and the remainder Iraqi military. Many of the KIAs are from Ft Lewis.

15 men, thats alot, and so close to Christmas, it must be rough for the families, and my thoughts are with them.

Wes


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## Peace_Keeper (22 Dec 2004)

13 Us soliders, 5 Us civillans, 1 unidentifed nationality and the rest Iraqis sdead


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## 1feral1 (22 Dec 2004)

Just coming thru here now it was a suicide bomber!


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## casca (22 Dec 2004)

RIP all those who lost their lifes. My heart goes out to the familys.  A speedy recovery to the wounded. I saw some pics it looked bad.


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## Baloo (22 Dec 2004)

This morning in the paper, they claimed it was a 122mm rocket. But I don't know now.

Thoughts are with the families.


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## Infanteer (22 Dec 2004)

Big footprints make for big targets.  Things like this should spur us to move away from the "monstrosity base" mentality that leads to things like Camp Julien.


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## Scoobie Newbie (23 Dec 2004)

I never really understood the use of local's in a base or other sensitive area.  Esp. while hostilities are still a daily occurance.  Its my understanding that in A Stan the Americans had a similar policy while the CAN didn't (Roto 0) .  Perhaps a member from that or more current missions could elaborate.


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## ArmyRick (23 Dec 2004)

To the 22 KIA, RIP, brothers...
To the wounded, I hope you see a speedy and healthy recovery...


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## KevinB (23 Dec 2004)

CFL said:
			
		

> I never really understood the use of local's in a base or other sensitive area.   Esp. while hostilities are still a daily occurance.   Its my understanding that in A Stan the Americans had a similar policy while the CAN didn't (Roto 0) .   Perhaps a member from that or more current missions could elaborate.



We use locals as do the US - the idea (from how it was explaned to me) is to get the locals working with our forces so we are seen less as an invader - and we provide money into the local economy.
 the Shitter truck, garbage trucks, and laundry folk at CJ are locals.


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## Meridian (23 Dec 2004)

The rationale is good... but I cant see how rather demeaning labour (shitter, garbage and laundry) is supposed to foster anything but subserviance.

*Shrug*


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## Michael Dorosh (23 Dec 2004)

Meridian said:
			
		

> The rationale is good... but I cant see how rather demeaning labour (shitter, garbage and laundry) is supposed to foster anything but subserviance.
> 
> *Shrug*



You're a middle class North American who views garbagemen and launderers as menial laborurers.   Others view those jobs differently; step past your biases.

How do the Sanitation Engineers in your neighbourhood view themselves? As coolies, or as civil servants?


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## Meridian (23 Dec 2004)

You don't get the point.

It doesn't matter how they would even view it in their own culture. What matters is how what we have them do is something that we would prefer not to do. You can be as PC as you want, but how much would we have to pay for Canadian civilian contractors to go over to Iraq and empty garbage, sanitary unites, etc. There is a reason why people refer to it as menial labour.

We pay our sanitation engineers quite a bit of money to combat the very stigma associated with their job. I KNOW people who are "garbagemen", and they are not entirely prooud of what they do, but they sure are happy about their paycheques.


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## aesop081 (23 Dec 2004)

Meridian said:
			
		

> You don't get the point.
> 
> It doesn't matter how they would even view it in their own culture. What matters is how what we have them do is something that we would prefer not to do. You can be as PC as you want, but how much would we have to pay for Canadian civilian contractors to go over to Iraq and empty garbage, sanitary unites, etc. There is a reason why people refer to it as menial labour.
> 
> We pay our sanitation engineers quite a bit of money to combat the very stigma associated with their job. I KNOW people who are "garbagemen", and they are not entirely prooud of what they do, but they sure are happy about their paycheques.



And you are missing the point as well....

Employement is gold for these people........trust me , i have dealt with enough local employees.  We are providing them employement which in turn helps them provide for their families.  But you are forgetting that its not all "menial" jobs...we hire interpreters, skilled construction labour as well.  And for the record, they get paid pretty well.  It is part of establishing good relations with the local population by contributing to the reconstruction of theire economy.


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## Edward Campbell (23 Dec 2004)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Employement is gold for these people........trust me , i have dealt with enough local employees.   We are providing them employement which in turn helps them provide for their families.   But you are forgetting that its not all "menial" jobs...we hire interpreters, skilled construction labour as well.   And for the record, they get paid pretty well.   It is part of establishing good relations with the local population by contributing to the reconstruction of theire economy.



I agree, but ...

I think, for Canadians and especially for Canadian planners in NDHQ, the issue is: how do we balance critically limited resources with the government's taskings, taskings which, too often, are expressed (prior to consultation) in terms like â Å“largest contingentâ ??

The solution has been to deploy as many _operational_ people as possible (stretching our own, internal training system *past* the breaking point, if I understand what I am hearing) and contracting out admin and base support functions.

We must now ask ourselves about the risks.

Can we, should we say: â Å“no local hires on baseâ ?? Can we, should we insist upon Canadians only â â€œ what about landed immigrants?   Can we manage without _*some*_ locals?   'Canadians' may be somewhere between inept and incapable in some jobs which require local knowledge.

I think I understand *some* of the pressures and realities which drive our planners in Ottawa; that's one of the reasons I continue to support contractors for many (most) admin and base support functions.   I also suspect that *â ?No Locals!â ?* is an impossible policy.

How, then, do we 'secure' our bases?


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## Infanteer (23 Dec 2004)

Rusty Old Joint said:
			
		

> How, then, do we 'secure' our bases?



Do our best to eliminate bases.

The only reason I seen for having permanent bases was to have a place to put the 3 barracks boxes full of unneccesary junk we shipped over (See Marshal - The Soldier's Load and the Mobility of a Nation) with and to have pies and cereal, DVD theaters, and a pool table.

As far as I'm concerned, a Kifaru EMR is a good enough base for me.


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## 48Highlander (23 Dec 2004)

Doing away with bases might be a good idea, but it's unlikely to happen.  Instead, why allow locals into the bases?  Yeah, you need locals for different jobs, but everything inside the base should be able to be handled by the soldiers, and for coordinating work outside the base you can meet with locals pretty much anywhere.  You don't need them inside the base.


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## George Wallace (23 Dec 2004)

It is called "Winning their hearts and minds".

GW


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## 48Highlander (23 Dec 2004)

You win hearts and minds by showing them that you're there to help protect them and aid them in rebuilding their country and their lives.  You don't need to open your bases to them in order to achieve that.


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## Marauder (23 Dec 2004)

Not to sound the asshole, but there's at least one Iraqi who decided his heart and mind splattered amongst "the invader's" broken bodies was preferable to making a decent wage and living in something resembling peace. So far as I'm concerned, locals inside the wire is nothing but a free intel and operational bonanza to the enemy.


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## Infanteer (23 Dec 2004)

I remember our translators in BiH saying that they were approached at least once a week by people offering to pay them for information.


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## George Wallace (23 Dec 2004)

Well then Marauder and 48Highlander, Canada has been conducting all its' NATO and UN Peacekeeping and Peacemaking Operations wrong since the days of the originator of all this; Lester B. Pearson.   We have been hiring civilians since then to do menial jobs and free up our soldiers for other duties.   We have allowed access to our facilities by 'friendly' Contingents.   

How Paranoid do you want to be?  Infanteer has put forth a point to that effect.

It is all part of trying to instill 'our values' on others in a peaceful and non threatening way.

GW


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## 48Highlander (23 Dec 2004)

How trusting do you want to be?  Do we stop searching people on their way into camp?  After all, we want to win their hearts and minds, so we can't very well show them that we think they might be dangerous.  Hell, let's do away with the gate guards entirely.  An open base policy works here in Canada, so why not in Afghanistan or Iraq, right?

    I'm being sarcastic obviously.  I understand what you're saying, but there really is no need whatsoever for locals inside the camp.  What menial tasks are we talking about here?  Preparing food?  I might not much like CBO, but I'd rather have them doing that.  Handling garbage?  Have them pick it up at the front gate.  Construction?  If you want to hire locals for that, have them build the main camp, and our engineers can do whatever maintanance and upgrades become neccesary after.  We can use locals to do some of the menial jobs without having to allow them access to the bases.


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## George Wallace (23 Dec 2004)

I see we want to go to the extreeme here.  Okey, let's put wheels on all those Blue Rockets and wheel them out to the front gate twice a day so the Sh tSucker can empty them....... ;D

GW


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## 48Highlander (23 Dec 2004)

Alright maybe you have a point  ;D


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## George Wallace (23 Dec 2004)

However, on that point....During the UNEF deployment to the Sinai in 1956, it was discovered that equipment and food were going missing in the 56 Reconnaissance Sqn camp.  When the 'compost' in the wheel barrows of the 'Sh tSucker' details were 'inspected', food and equipment were found.

Just to back up your point, if you like.

GW


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## 48Highlander (23 Dec 2004)

Thanks for the thought   Obviously the shit sucker could pose a big threat.  Wouldn't be very hard to hide a couple hundred pound of explosive underneath sewage on the way into the camp.  I'm just willing to admit that maybe barring all locals from the camp would be overly paranoid.  So I don't know, maybe do some sort of security checks on the workers you allow on base, and limit those allowed in to only the ones whom we REALLY need to allow in.  I don't know, I'm not even sure exactly how it's being handled now, let alone exactly how to improve it.


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## George Wallace (23 Dec 2004)

To be truthful, I agree with you.  There is only one way to maintain a high degree of security and that is to keep all nonmilitary personnel out of your camp.  Yes, that would mean that soldiers would have to revert back 100 years and do ALL tasks within the camp, including the Sh t jobs.  It is the only life you have and the only way to ensure it is not cut short by some fanatic.

Gw


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## jmackenzie_15 (23 Dec 2004)

suicide bomber running/infiltrating camps... the viet cong did that alot in vietnam.. which reminds me, I think the casualty count so far would be.. a LOT higher if it werent for body armor.Thats what I hear from alot of guys anyway.Kindof reassuring about its effectiveness I guess.

If the states cant even keep their own military bases secure, how do you secure airports and borders , or anything else really. This 'fortress america' idea is an illusion.


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## Scoobie Newbie (24 Dec 2004)

KevinB I had a friend over on Roto 0 who caught one to the locals slip up and speak fluent English when before all he knew was hello and thank you.  He also found someone pacing in the lines.  I see know problem with having locals work at your camp if it is a some what secure environment.  Iraq is not.  There is also the problem of having the populace become dependent on NATO, UN etc as employment.  When they invariably leave there is a vacuum.


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## Marauder (24 Dec 2004)

Kevin brings up a good distinction. The commanders will have to decide if the security environment is appropriate to allow locals inside the camp. I don't think A'stan and Iraq are secure enough to allow them in. Particularly when it has been shown that the locals in either location are not beyond sending themselves high order if it means killing Western troops. (RIP CPL Murphy) 
I think in the traditional sense of peacekeeping allowing the locals on base has some value to free up troops for other taskings, but this self detonation thing has changed the paradigm, IMO.
Just my opinion, maybe not necessarily the right one, but there it is.


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## Meridian (27 Dec 2004)

CFL said:
			
		

> KevinB I had a friend over on Roto 0 who caught one to the locals slip up and speak fluent English when before all he knew was hello and thank you.  He also found someone pacing in the lines.



Out of curiosity, what happens then? Are these people "watched". Does it get ignored? are they removed from the camp immediately?
Is someone (MPs?) tasked to watching these people/monitoring them?


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