# University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]



## Gunner98

I have some troops working for me that are interested in the University Training Plan (NCM). I have reviewed the relevant CFAOs with them and the 2006 Competition message.   I would like to put them in contact with some applicants or successful applicants who are now at university.  If you would be willing to assist them with advice or experiences please let me know. I am currently in sunny, cool Wainwright on BTE.


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## Duotone81

Gunner98,

Here is the official site for the UTPNCM Association of Canada. I also noticed a Yahoo Chat Group linked to the site so you might be able to contact graduates/alumni of the program through that means.

http://utpncm.rmcclub.ca/Public/home_e.html

Nick


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## Gunner98

Thanks, I had found the site previously but thought it might be designed exclusively for those attending RMC.  I will circulate to them to check out.


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## SweetNavyJustice

Good day all, 

This is a question to all those who might be in the know to see if this can make sense.  

When getting selected to UTPNCM you keep being paid what your current salary is relative to your rank.  For example, I was a Master 4 when I was picked up, so I'm being paid at Master 4.  

In refering to the CF payscale, there is a row for officer cadets noted by the letter "D". 

Canadian Forces Pay Scale
(Link updated May 2009 to CF site, please advise forum staff if link is broken due to changes in CF site structure.)

 This is supposed to be for UTPNCM individuals but this is not the scale that we are paid on.  When I made an enquiry, no one in the pay office really knew why this was the case "it's just the way it works".  

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have the opportunity to keep my salary and go to school gratis, but this policy has just always not made much sense.  

Any thoughts?


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## Michael OLeary

I suspect that once you are commissioned from the UTPNCM program (and the incentive level catches up to where you are now), then you are on those "D" officer pay scales.  You will note that the other scales are based on entry plan to commissioned ranks as well.


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## SweetNavyJustice

I agree that the other scales are for other entry plans, just as "D" is for UTPNCM.  I also agree that once I'm commissioned I will be paid at payscale "D" for 2lt and lt.  

My question is that while I'm an OCDT, why would I not be paid at the "D" scale for UTPNCM?


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## Michael OLeary

CFAO 9-70 SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/009-70_e.asp



> 13. Pay. *Members selected for commissioning retain vested rights* under
> QR&O 204.07 and 204.072. Normally, candidates will be paid in
> accordance with QR&O 204.2112, however, due to the complexity of pay
> issues, each case will be determined by Director General Compensation and
> Benefits/Director Pay Policy and Development (DGCB/DPPD) prior to a
> selection offer being made to ensure the selected pay scale is appropriate.



You have vested rights to your pay, i.e., it cannot be reduced. If you are an OCdt under the program long enough for the OCDT "D" scale incentives to catch up to your current rate of pay, then you will change to that pay scale.

As a MCpl Incentive 4 you're getting 4475 per month.
As an OCdt on the "D" Scale your next raise will be your tenth incentive, i.e., 10 years in that rank.

Get commissioned before that and you'll get a raise at 2Lt incentive 3, Lt incentive 1, or on promotion to Captain.


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## dapaterson

CBI 204.211 discusses pay scales.  Sub-paras 4 and 10 apply in your case:

_(4) (Rate of pay - University Training Plan (Non-commissioned Members) and Special Commissioning Plan) A lieutenant or second lieutenant to whom the University Training Plan (Non-Commissioned Members) or Special Commissioning Plan applies shall be paid, for each month after the month and year specified in the table, at the rate of pay for the officer's rank and and pay increment as follows

if appointed to the rank of officer cadet directly from the rank of private, in pay level A of Table "B" or "C" to this instruction; 
if appointed to the rank of officer cadet directly from the rank of corporal or above, in pay level D of Table "B" or "C" to this instruction. 
if commissioned directly to the rank of lieutenant or second lieutenant from a non-commissioned member rank, in pay level D of Table "B" or "C" to this instruction 

...

(10) (Officer Cadet - former non-commissioned member) An officer cadet to whom an officer entry plan at paragraghs (4), (6), (7) or (8) applies, who is appointed directly to that rank from a non-commissioned rank shall be paid.

if the member was a non-commissioned member of the Regular Force, at the rate of pay which, including any upward adjustments to the rates of pay determined under subparagraphs (i) and (ii) that may be established from time to time, and any upward adjustments resulting from the reallocation of the last military occupation in which the member served as a non-commissioned member to a higher trade group, is the greater of the rate of pay established for 
the rank, pay increment, pay level and trade group held on the day immediately prior to the date of appointment to the rank of officer cadet, or 
any higher pay increment to which the member would have become entitled had the member remained in the former rank, pay level and trade group as a non-commissioned member; and 
if the member was a former Regular Force member who re-enrols or a member who transfers from the Reserve Force to the Regular Force, at the rate of pay in pay level "D" in Table "A" and pay increment as determined in orders or instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff. _ 

(http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=204.211&sidecat=21&Chapter=204#204.211)

And then see sub-para 11 as well, which states:

_(11) (Limitations on pay increments) Subject to CBI 204.015 (Incentive Pay), the number of pay increment increases may not exceed the maximum number of pay increments for the applicable pay level and table to this instruction, and is further limited as follows: 
...
b.  in the case of an officer cadet who is paid under pay level D in Table "A", to no pay increment increase regardless of time served in that rank; 
_

All this to say:  You keep your pay and any future IPC increases; if you were put on pay table D you'd get no increases until comissioning.  Sounds like you've got the better deal.


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## SweetNavyJustice

thanks for everyone's help.  I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me.


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## Wookilar

Ummm, now I realize that I'm currently failing calculus, but I am usually a fairly intelligent numpty when it comes to CBI's and CFAO's and such..... but, if I maintain my pay (and retain any/all IPC's) what purpose do 10 Incentives serve? 

If I am reading it correctly, I would have had to release in order to be covered under Table "A" Pay level "D" and even then authorization has to come from the CDS? Doesn't that seem a little strange? And, reading further, it doesn't matter anyway, because under Table "A" Pay level "D" you are not intitled to any incentive increases  ???

Does anyone know why we have such a screwy (seemingly) system of pay incentives for OCdt's? Why have any incentives at all, let alone ten, if the rules state that there is no movement?

Same with 2Lt "B", 4 incentives, but you are only allowed one. Lt "C", 9 incentives, allowed 3.

And I'm going LOG why?


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## Paper2Pilot

Hi everyone. I am currently a Cpl RMS Clerk waiting until the 06/07 competition comes out for UTPNCM... I was told it would be sometime this week but I haven't seen anything as of yet. I have met all of the selection requirements (2 University credits, leadership potential, support from my CO, French training, Cpl rank etc) and I have filled out all of the required paperwork... just waiting until I can submit it. What I would like to find is a Pilot who could give me a bit more information than the recruiting centre has about the trade before I go into the interview, so that I can be completely prepared. Plus, I want to find out more about the aircrew selection testing in Trenton - there isn't any info on the recruiting site. All they tell you is that you need 20/20 vision. I have that, but I am sure that the testing is intense, and I want to know what I am getting into so that I can prepare (if it is possible to prepare - at least physically) Any help would be appreciated.


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## kincanucks

Did you try searching for aircrew selection or CFASC and did you review the Air Force threads?  Did you visit the CFASC website? Did you search for UTPNCM? Here is a freebie:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/44463.0.html

Also, you don't have to wait for the competition to open to submit your paperwork to the Chain of Command because once you have submitted it, it is up to them to make sure it gets over to the BPSO before the deadline and the way some COC work the sooner you submit the better off you will be.  Just make sure that you follow up to make sure that the COC is doing their job.

Note - If you know everything that is on the recruiting website about Pilot then you will be able to satisfactorily answer any question that the BPSO will ask you.


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## Paper2Pilot

Thank you, yes I will probably get through the BPSO interview based on the information given on the recruiting website... however... I am more concerned with hearing from an actual pilot and what his day-to-day job entails, and how hard it was to get through the testing. You are right, I could submit the paperwork to my COC right away, but I would be assuming that none of the forms on the BPSS website have changed.

Thank you for the link to the Air Force threads, they have been a bit of help - but I have noticed since joining this site that people seem to be more comfortable cutting and pasting dialogue from the Recruiting site instead of actually answering questions. Believe me, I am very excited about switching to the Pilot trade and I have done my research   The reason I am posting on this site now is to get some info straight from an actual Pilot. Must be a few on here?


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## ACS_Tech

I'm only asking this because I've gotten conflicting answers from the PSO and the new UTPNCM 2007 competition message.  Do the University level OPME courses apply to the 2 course (ie 4 half course) requirement for the UTPNCM application?  I know it mentions it pretty clearly on the message, however I want to make sure I am not misreading anything.  I also don't want to go back to the PSO and say "HA! Told you so!", since I think that will do little to help my chances  ;D


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## George Wallace

ACS_Tech said:
			
		

> I know it mentions it pretty clearly on the message, however I want to make sure I am not misreading anything.



Why are you wasting Bandwidth?  It clearly says in the Message, is what you say in your post, so that is it.  Final answer.  You are the weakest link.  Good bye!


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## MJP

Hmm makes for an interesting change.  Is it for all OPMEs?  I wouldn't think that Intro to defence management and Military Law would qualify as they aren't really a course in the university sense.  Can you post the CANFORGEN?  I don't seem to be able to access it.


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## muffin

DCE001 and DCE002 do not count as they are PD courses and not Univeristy level. The other 4 will count. You can have them transferred to RMC as an interest only student and request a transcript for an official record with grades. 

You can find out about all this by calling RMC DCS (Continuing Studies) and checking out the website
www.rmc.ca/academic/continuing

Maggie O'Reilly
Database Admin
RMC _ DCS/OPME
CSN271-6333


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## shadow

Same applies to civilian universities.  The UTPNCM selection board wants to see University courses completed... not OPME's
If your university grants you an equivalency credit, then it will reflect on your transcript and the PSO and UT board will be happy.  You can't show them a "P" on your MPRR and tell them it's a university course.
Most universities will grant credits for certain OPME's.  University of Ottawa for example, grants equivalencies for the 400 series OPMEs.
Hope this helps!
Shadow


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## devilins

HIE 208, POE 206, HIE 475 and PSE 402 all count towards the UTPNCM program.  They all have equivalency at Memorial University in NL and are worth half a credit since they are only one semester courses.  Most universities will accept them as well ie U of Manitoba and U of Ottawa.  These are the only OPMEs that count as the other two you can do in a week and pass through the condensed courses run on base.  They are a pain to use as you have to transfer them on your transcript thus becoming a student at RMC with a full fledged student number and not your OPME student number that starts with a PXXXX.  Once that is complete you then have to request an official transcript from RMC.  As for the board looking at them favorably I cant see why they would not as they are quite difficult, and are core requirements for BMAS, BA, BSc at RMC.  Plus you will have a shiny transcript with your marks on it to show them.  Hope this helps!!


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## devilins

I was curious as to my situation should I get accepted to the UTPNCM program.  I am under the understanding that I would be lose my Sgt rank and become an OCdt.  Now the pay rate that I could expect is $4619 for OCdt incentive 10 on table A pay level D, but as it stands now I get Sgt Basic which is $4675.  So what happens with this situation?  Do I stay on the Sgt pay scale as you cannot go down in pay and stay at that incentive for 4 years, or do I go up to the SLt or Lt pay scales as that is what I get promoted to upon commissioning.

Thanks


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## George Wallace

The simple question first: You will not get paid at a higher rank level than you are.

Second: It depends on how you changed from Sgt to OCdt, as the rules are different in respect to "Vested Rights" in how you have changed Trades, etc.  That should have been laid out for you by the OR with the appropriate references to DAOD's, CFAO's, or QR&O's.  It would state on your message, what Pay Scale you will get.

My personal opinion, without full knowledge of your situation, nor Pay Background, is that you will keep your Sgt's Pay until such time that it will equal the Level of Officer's Rank Pay Scale that you have achieved.


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## big_johnson1

There is a huge issue going on with this right now.. I don't know if we're talking Reg or Reserve, and since I have no knowledge of how UTPNCM works for the reg guys, I'll leave it alone. What I do know is this: before, UTPNCM was not available to the reserve guys coming over to officer in the reg force. You took your cut in pay, down to OCdt level whatever (for me it was about $1250 a month gross), lost your rank and any leave entitlements etc etc. And of course you did this with a smile on your face because you were getting free education. A few intrepid individuals through the years decided that this wasn't right, that their reserve time should count the same as another person's reg time. Redresses went in, from my research they were all found for the grievor, and a load of backpay was issued. Someone up above took note of this and decided it wasn't right, and in 2005 ADM-HR(Mil) released Administrative Instruction 07/05, which basically means that from 2005 onwards if you join the regs as an officer from the NCM reserve world, you will be treated as a UTPNCM applicant. Details I'm not sure about but anyone who this matters to will look up the document and can read it for themselves. Anyone who joined in FY 06 is entered under the new rules, apparently applicants from FY 05 have been dealt with already (ie issuing back pay and pay rates based on prev service), and they are working backwards to FY 00 to deal with the rest of us. From what I've been told from a friend, once you get on the OCDT Pay level "D" scale, you don't go up in pay again until you get comissioned. He was a Sgt in the reserves, and with his previous service he got adjusted to a significant pay level with a load of backpay, after being dropped in rank to OCdt. This was determined from his previous service, basically adding up his class A/B/C time and working out what the reg equivalent would be.

I'm not a clerk and I have no RMS background, so take what I say with a grain of salt, especially since I'm giving second hand info. I think the reason there are 10 IPC levels to OCDT/D is so that they can cover all the possible rates of pay for UTPNCMs from privates up to sgts. I'm guessing the WOs and above are generally CFRs so they would go to their appropriate rank? Just a guess. 

Anyways I hope that's not too confusing, I've been looking fairly deeply into this for the last year or so and I think I understand most of how it works. Again, don't take what I say as gospel, but this is what I've seen.


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## Rhibwolf

Feral said:
			
		

> I'm not a clerk and I have no RMS background, so take what I say with a grain of salt, especially since I'm giving second hand info. I think the reason there are 10 IPC levels to OCDT/D is so that they can cover all the possible rates of pay for UTPNCMs from privates up to sgts. I'm guessing the WOs and above are generally CFRs so they would go to their appropriate rank?



Its been a while since I was a UT, and our pay issue was quite different than it is now, but this makes sense.  There was never any loss of pay, however, you just got stuck at your current NCM rate until you graduated, as there were no OCdts who made as much as Cpl.  My year got double pain, as we were all frozen in IPC for a few years afterwards, and I made 2888 for a long long time.  As for WO and above? we had plenty in the UT program.  Not all chiefs want to be commissioned without a degree. There are some who do it for the degree just as much for the rank.  Oddly, the most common reason I hear these days is "for the pension"  and not for the chance to be a Capt or Lt(N).  (just to waylay any questions on that, the pension is the same as everyone else's, but there is potential for the "best 5 yrs" to be higher in pay scale.)


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## big_johnson1

Well I'm on the list somewhere to get my backpay so once I've got first hand experience I'll post what happens to me.


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## Jodie

I was recently accepted into the UTPNCM program as a Land Logistics Officer.  My current unit can offer me no guidance on what happens after my change of appt to OCDT on 30 Apr.  I am trying to find out the official word on what cap badge I am authorized to wear, do I get the Log officer Cap badge or the Cornflake?


[Edit:  Gheeese!  If you are going officer, please learn to spell and ask a question.  Corrected your subject title to reflect your question.  No thanks necessary.  It is all part of the job.   ;D ]


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## SweetNavyJustice

Most of us (UTP's) put up our new cap badges instead of the cornflake.  

There was some flack at St.Jean two summers ago where they wanted the UTP's to wear the cornflake, but this seemed to have melted away by last summer.  

If you go with your new trade badge, the worst thing that can happen is they ask you to put on a cornflake once you're there if they've changed the policy again.


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## Tracker 23A

I did UTPNCM, and I simply replaced my NCM capbadge with that of the officer cap badge from the moment I changed my TOS.  It was easy for me, since I remained in the infantry.  For those that are in a trade as an NCM/NCO and have been accepted as an officer to a new trade, I know everyone of the pers who were CFR'd/UTPNCM simply replaced their old trade capbadge with their new officer capbadge for that trade.  No one had any problems with that.


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## Jodie

Thanks, that's what I thought myself, but I couldn't seem to find any offcial word, and I have been getting various answers.  Any other advice with regards to UTPNCM, I am on my IAP the 28th of May.


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## SweetNavyJustice

The only advise I would offer is to go and have fun.  Well, as much fun as you can on an IAP....

Your first 4 weeks will be the whole indoctrination stuff all over again to get the new people into a military frame of mind so expect lots of death by powerpoint, and not much free time.  

The field is the field so you either love it, hate it, or tollerate it.  

Everything is pretty much spoon fed so sit back and enjoy the ride.  

Congrats, and good luck.


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## Disenchantedsailor

this is right out of the book ( i had to look it up for myself) when a Offr is appointed from the ranks they are to wear the capbadge of the new branch less any regimental restrictions, ie Infantry waers the branch badge vice PPCIL/RCR ... Arty wears the gold plated one vice the cloth one and so on, each regiment has thier own rules on when the officer cap badge is worn but you should be fine putting up the log NCM cloth badge (or my other suggestion is head over to clothing stores and speak to one of the logo's there, they may have a better answer for your branch)


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## Journeyman

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> * ie Infantry waers the branch badge vice PPCIL/RCR*


*ahem* *PPCLI*    (I don't care how you choose to spell "wear")

As a "UT,"  I also wore my new classification cap badge from day one, since I had to get a green beret to put it on anyway. Mind you, I seldom wore it, since I managed to duck out of RMC (I found out years later many of my neighbours assumed I was SIU, since I lived in PMQs, but wore jeans/ball hats and skipped shaving periodically when going "to work")  ;D


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## Disenchantedsailor

My appologies on the dislexia, no intent to dishonour the regiment


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## Journeyman

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> My appologies apologies on the dislexia dyslexia, no intent to dishonour the regiment



 ;D


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## vonGarvin

When I did my UTPNCM stint in 95-99, I remained a member of The RCR; however, I retained the NCM capbadge for wear during BOTC and SLT.  At "home", I wore the officers' capbadge of The RCR.  During phase training in Gagetown, I wore the Infantry Corps' capbadge until graduation.  This info is a decade out of date, so take it for what it's worth.


PS: My beret is still green, always has been.  It has NOT darkened to "noir", in spite of my current position.  ;D
Also, why is "dyslexia" so hard to spell?


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## PPCLI Guy

Captain Sensible said:
			
		

> Also, why is "dyslexia" so hard to spell?



 I believe that the general rule of thumb is that "if you can spell it, you ain't got it".


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## PMedMoe

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> I believe that the general rule of thumb is that "if you can spell it, you ain't got it".



I tried to spell it but I couldn't find it under "C" in the dictionary!!


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## SeaGully

Although this has subject has been covered on this site in many different threads, I have a 'theoretical' question
that perhaps someone with a little bit of expertise can answer for me...btw, feel free to move this post to another area if needed..

Ok, here goes,  I know education is a BIG factor in one's success during their career in the CF.
I have read about CFR and UTPNCM
I am a little confused....I'm aware that to apply for utpncm one has to have been accepted to a university 
and for a program that meets the CF's needs. 
Now not having any formal education credits since highschool,(and that was a while ago)
will I not be able to apply since I do not possess any university credits?
Is it possible to take some correspondence credit courses and then apply?
to be CFR I'm aware one has to be stellar in their preformance and get a 'gold star' from their superiors
here's where I'm lost: if one cfr's, do they have to have a degree? also, am I right to assume that they would go through basic officer training?

somebody please let me know if this is a far fetched goal (ie, not in your dreams policy states...) or a realistic one.
THE GOAL:
to work in my trade, pass all training with flying colours and move up in ncm rank
after a few years (and by few I mean MS or PO2)
hope to cfr to Logistics Officer 

is it possible to get a university education once in your trade
(specifically the navy, does one have time at sea to get an education?)
would i be granted leave for 4 or 3 years to get a degree?
how does that work out? 


I will be speaking to an Officer tomorrow however i thought i would ask for the insight and advice of you great folks here at
army/navy/airforce.ca first 
thanks


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## Disenchantedsailor

IOT help you out I need to know a wee more tidbit of information,   where are you in your carreer now?


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## PMedMoe

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> IOT help you out I need to know a wee more tidbit of information,   where are you in your carreer now?



According to his her profile, not even in the CF yet.

Edit for gender correction.  ;D


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## aesop081

SeaGully said:
			
		

> THE GOAL:
> to work in my trade, pass all training with flying colours and move up in ncm rank
> after a few years (and by few I mean MS or PO2)
> hope to cfr to Logistics Officer



If you hope to *CFR* to LOG O, make sure you join on eof the Logistics trades. Alot of officer trades restrict where CFR candidates can come from. For example, CFR to Air navigator is restricted to NCMs from the AES Op trade.

Other programs such as UTPNCM or CEOTP work differently of course.


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## MJP

SeaGully said:
			
		

> I am a little confused....I'm aware that to apply for utpncm one has to have been accepted to a university and for a program that meets the CF's needs. Now not having any formal education credits since highschool,(and that was a while ago)will I not be able to apply since I do not possess any university credits?Is it possible to take some correspondence credit courses and then apply?



No you cannot apply for UTPNCM without some university credits.  Usually 2 full courses worth ( so two 6 credit hour or any combination of  3 and 6 credit hours to make 12).  Bear in mind this is the minimun required and acceptance is not guaranteed.  UTPNCM is a highly competitive programme so it is desirable to make yourself as attractive as possible.  Since you are talking about CFR as well, just so you know Cpl and above can apply to UTPNCM, whereas CFR is usually Sgts and above.  Outstanding Master-Corporals/Masterseamen can CFR but it is rarer.  The other side is usually you are asked there is no application form.  However knowing a few people that have CFRed, they have all let their chain of command know that they wish to CFR at some point.

CEOTP is also an option to go the officer route.  Do a search here and on google to get more info on it.



			
				SeaGully said:
			
		

> Is it possible to take some correspondence credit courses and then apply?
> to be CFR I'm aware one has to be stellar in their performance and get a 'gold star' from their superiors
> here's where I'm lost: if one cfr's, do they have to have a degree? also, am I right to assume that they would go through basic officer training?
> 
> 
> is it possible to get a university education once in your trade
> (specifically the navy, does one have time at sea to get an education?)
> would i be granted leave for 4 or 3 years to get a degree?
> how does that work out?



Ok Basic officer which this week is BOMQ,  Usually most CFR's don't need to, due to their course equivalencies and other experience.  Who knows what it will be in the future so no real point in worrying about it right now.

University in the military is relatively simple to do, finding the time to do your courses is the hard part.  The military will not give you a tremendous amount of time off to do your courses.  The onus is on you to utilize your time wisely and get them done for the most part on your own.  In some exceptional circumstances they will give you time off but don't count on it.  The good part is they pay for pretty much everything as long as it goes towards your degree.  To receive your funding you have to fill out an ILP (Individual Learning Plan).  On it you will have to fill out what school you will be attending, your goals and degree choice.  You also have IIRC a 5 year funding estimate to fill out based on how many courses you think you will be able to do.  I wouldn't worry about that too much though as some years I know I claimed nothing and the next was wayyyy over my "estimate" and still got my money.

Here is a link to some more info and more importantly a list of links for the CF Continuing Education Programme http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/5031/5_e.asp

Right now though the best advice anyone will tell you is to not worry about CFR/UTPNCM right now and focus on being the best soldier possible getting through your courses and gaining experience.


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## SeaGully

Thanks for the quick replies everyone,
A little background: one, I am a SHE not a HE.  
I am an applicant as I am going through the application process, the only step left is the medical
and that appointment has already been booked. I applid as Boatswain but after speaking to the Officer who interviewed me
I decided that I would be more useful to the CF serving as Steward. (yes he 'suggested' it but only because my resume
is heavy full of hospitality goods) I think starting out at NCM is the way to go seeing as I will excell and also because right now
my education background is virtually non-existent. In the civilian world, I worked  my way up from hostess to restaurant manager, experience with inventory and with training personel etc...
and this is why I would be not only a great Steward but eventually with experience a Great Logistics Officer
I am more than willing to put in the time and effort for independant study

I just wanted to know if this path (i know it's a long long road, with many a winding turn..) is a realistic one.

ceotp i was under the impression that one needed to already posess some kind of educational credits to apply..

thanks for the advice, I will now get my google on!


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## Dark Chivalry

Have you tried applying to a university?  If your goal is Log Officer, why not bypass the NCM experience in favour of CF sponsorship through ROTP?  If you haven't got any schooling since high school you can still apply as a mature student if you have a GED or HSD.  You might have to take some nonsense tests to make sure your "english skills" are  adequate, but most universities barely look at transcripts from HS unless it's a degree that requires specific HS-level courses such as certain BSc and Eng degrees.

It just seems to me like the NCM experience will drag out your education time, because your duties come first.  If you want to be a Log Officer, 4 years of dedicated study under OCdt pay with living allowance (or living on RMC campus) can get you there faster.  Just a thought.


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## PuckChaser

NCM experience will make a better military leader 8/10. There's always the few CFRs or UTPNCMs that didn't get the respect they wanted as a Cpl/MCpl/Sgt, and go the officer route to gain some wierd acceptance. All of the CFR officers I've met are top notch professionals, who know what its like being a no-hook private.

Also, look at the officer route later on, don't dwell now unless you're completely set in it. I thought I was going to go to RMC and be an officer, then I joined the reserves and realized that I love being out in the field, getting my hands dirty instead of being an administrator.


----------



## Disenchantedsailor

ON a side note, Steward is probably not a bad choice if you have a future dream of becoming a LOG Offr.  You will gain skills there that will i say again will be used as a log type,  such as hotel/rest management, and limited food services type experience, doesnt help on the supply chain management or transport side of the house, but HR/Adm/Food Svcs is also a trade stream for the LOG O types,  best of luck with your carreer and just remember,  although stewards do make coffee in the wardroom, there is nothing stoppping that Jr Subbie from making a pot a 3 am when they realize its empty.


----------



## SeaGully

Yeah, I have given the ROTP some thought however, I am a hands on learner and the thought of sitting through 4 years of university doesn't appeal to me RIGHT NOW. (aka, I can't stand my current civy job and the only thing on my mind all of 2008 was getting into the Navy..) I'd much rather be 'getting my hands dirty' now, learning EVERY aspect of the trade (if that means i gotta do laundry for a couple of years i'm ok with that, i've had to do worse working at a hair salon..)
and working my way up than go straight into LOG O. I know it's an easier route, but my personal beleifs won't allow me to get to the top without starting from the bottom...
I was thinking Officer as a carreer progression move rather than a straight away rank.
I just didn't want to get into the trade and then ten years from now realise that I was S.O.L because 
I didn't have the education I needed when I was a young slacker kid...so this is good to know that there are options for me when I'm in.

on a side note, i make a mean pot of coffee! and can't stand when the pot's empty or the filter wasn't replaced...call me crazy...


----------



## SeaGully

thanks for the edit moe!


----------



## PuckChaser

SeaGully said:
			
		

> on a side note, i make a mean pot of coffee! and can't stand when the pot's empty or the filter wasn't replaced...call me crazy...



You'd fit well as a SigOp. We have a Command Post Coffee Making PO check (military test).  8)


----------



## muddyrug

I plan on joining the army around June this year once I'm done high school, and I was wondering if its possible to enter the ROTP after you have already joined as a NCM, or if you would have to wait until you finish your 3 years as a NCM before you can apply.


----------



## Michael OLeary

If you are planning to join the Regular Force as an NCM, and later switch to an officer program, you need to be looking for UTPNCM rather than ROTP for references.

Here's one thread on UTPNCM to start, others also showed up on a search for UTPNCM (limit your search to 365 days for recent threads).

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/82016.0.html



			
				MJP said:
			
		

> No you cannot apply for UTPNCM without some university credits.  Usually 2 full courses worth ( so two 6 credit hour or any combination of  3 and 6 credit hours to make 12).  Bear in mind this is the minimun required and acceptance is not guaranteed.  UTPNCM is a highly competitive programme so it is desirable to make yourself as attractive as possible.  Since you are talking about CFR as well, just so you know Cpl and above can apply to UTPNCM, whereas CFR is usually Sgts and above.  Outstanding Master-Corporals/Masterseamen can CFR but it is rarer.  The other side is usually you are asked there is no application form.  However knowing a few people that have CFRed, they have all let their chain of command know that they wish to CFR at some point.
> 
> CEOTP is also an option to go the officer route.  Do a search here and on google to get more info on it.
> 
> Ok Basic officer which this week is BOMQ,  Usually most CFR's don't need to, due to their course equivalencies and other experience.  Who knows what it will be in the future so no real point in worrying about it right now.
> 
> University in the military is relatively simple to do, finding the time to do your courses is the hard part.  The military will not give you a tremendous amount of time off to do your courses.  The onus is on you to utilize your time wisely and get them done for the most part on your own.  In some exceptional circumstances they will give you time off but don't count on it.  The good part is they pay for pretty much everything as long as it goes towards your degree.  To receive your funding you have to fill out an ILP (Individual Learning Plan).  On it you will have to fill out what school you will be attending, your goals and degree choice.  You also have IIRC a 5 year funding estimate to fill out based on how many courses you think you will be able to do.  I wouldn't worry about that too much though as some years I know I claimed nothing and the next was wayyyy over my "estimate" and still got my money.
> 
> Here is a link to some more info and more importantly a list of links for the CF Continuing Education Programme http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/5031/5_e.asp
> 
> Right now though the best advice anyone will tell you is to not worry about CFR/UTPNCM right now and focus on being the best soldier possible getting through your courses and gaining experience.


----------



## muddyrug

alright thanks


----------



## tyciol

So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way? Could someone apply for it if they had joined and then not renewed their terms of service and switched back to civilian life then wanted to get in as an officer?


----------



## George Wallace

tyciol said:
			
		

> So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way?



Correct.



			
				tyciol said:
			
		

> Could someone apply for it if they had joined and then not renewed their terms of service and switched back to civilian life then wanted to get in as an officer?



A rather convoluted process, but I suppose one could.  If you had done some reading on these topics, you would know that there are several different programs, that include programs/plans for NCMs to apply for and get a Degree, as well as plans that would permit them to apply for and be Commissioned.


----------



## chris_log

tyciol said:
			
		

> So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way?



No.

Reservists can CT to the regs via ROTP. It happens all the time. Now, reg force NCM's who want to become an officer and get their schooling subsidised would have to apply for the UTPNCM program. There are also reg force and reserve NCM's who become officer's without a degree via the CFR process (this applies to higher ranking NCM's who have alot of experience and time in).


----------



## oldandgrey

UTs program is not the only route you can use. check out the CEOTP as well, this program is open to NCM and Civics.  what you should do is read up CFAOs 9-13 for UTP-NCM and the canforgen on the CEOTP. 

for you to apply as a UT you must be at a min rank of cpl before your file reach the board. CEOTP has no min rank at this point.


----------



## mr.rhtuner

Hey guys, I've searched and had a few questions answered but still have one left that I'd like to get help on.

Let's say a NCM Master Corporal or Sergeant want to become an officer, are the only options:

1) Release from the military and complete a university degree then re-enlist and
2) Apply and get into the RMC school and become an officer

I've just been thinking after numerous years a person puts into getting that rank, is there no way easier to apply for being an officer???


I've looked through the CF website and don't see a easier way of getting into the officer program.


Sorry if this has been posted, I couldn't find the direct answer to this


----------



## Rowshambow

There are lots (OK a few) ways to do it.

1) CFR-Commision From the Ranks, you should be min Sgt but will accept outstanding MCpl's
2) CEOTP- Continuing Education Officer Training Program, you only need to be a Cpl, and have to finish a degree (on your own time) before your IE is finished
3) UTPNCM- University Training Plan NCM, Cpl's and above, apply to go to school and then trade training in summer etc, kinda like ROTP, can go to civi or RMC
4) SCP- Special Commissioning Plan, Cpl's and up, once you have a degree (we see more people coming in with degree's now) then you can go Officer after you do the NCM time.

Anyways, if you look on the recruiting site, many of these should be posted, as that's where I got it from when I looked into it years ago. Or ask a BPSO!


----------



## aesop081

For some, NCM to Officer is hardly considered "advancement".

CFR has its own special cosiderations and is largely designed for a senior NCM to move into a related officer trade (i.e. sup tech to LOG O or AES Op to ACSO......).


----------



## DisplacedMaritimer

2 quick questions on the CFR since it came up in the post, and I've only heard bits and pieces about it before:

1. Does a CFR still require a University Degree?
2. Does a CFR start as a 2Lt? Or are they moved to a rank more fitting of their experience? Or would this be situational?

I've always found this concept to be interesting but I honestly don't know a lot about it, and it's not mentioned a lot on the boards.


----------



## dapaterson

DisplacedMaritimer said:
			
		

> 2 quick questions on the CFR since it came up in the post, and I've only heard bits and pieces about it before:
> 
> 1. Does a CFR still require a University Degree?
> 2. Does a CFR start as a 2Lt? Or are they moved to a rank more fitting of their experience? Or would this be situational?
> 
> I've always found this concept to be interesting but I honestly don't know a lot about it, and it's not mentioned a lot on the boards.



CFAO 11-9 - Commissioning from the Ranks - should answer most of your questions.



> ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
> 5.     To be eligible for nomination under the CFRP a member shall:
> a.   be a Canadian citizen;
> 
> b.   have a minimum of 10 years service in the Canadian Forces (CF)
> Regular Force by the closing date for nomination;
> 
> c.   be of the substantive rank of sergeant (Sgt)/petty officer second
> class (P02) or above;
> 
> d.   have at least the minimum required years of service remaining to
> compulsory retirement age (CRA) for the proposed officer military
> occupation classification (MOC) by 31 Dec of the year in which
> the selection board is convened. This minimum number of years
> will be specified in the annual competition message;
> 
> e.   for the appropriate officer MOC have a minimum medical category
> awarded/confirmed within the 12 months prior to the closing date
> for nomination;
> 
> f.   achieve acceptable standing in the General Classification (GC)
> test administered by the Base Personnel Selection Officer (BPSO);
> 
> g.   possess a Grade 12 diploma (Secondary V in Quebec) or an
> equivalency certificate based on education equivalency testing;
> and
> 
> h.   if a MARE 44 nominee, provide proof of acceptance to a sub-MOC
> approved technology programme at an institution identified below;
> 
> (1)  MARE 44B(MS) -- institution(s) will be specified in the
> annual competition message,
> 
> (2)  MARE 44C(CS) -- Camosun College (Pre MORPS only), and
> 
> (3)  MARE 44D(NC) -- Fisheries and Marine Institute of Memorial
> University of Newfoundland.



CFAO 11-6, Commissioning and Promotion Policy - Officers - Regular Force, also applies:



> 14.    CFRP.  A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the
> CFRP, whose rank is warrant officer or below, and who has not completed the
> Senior Leaders Course (SLC) will be commissioned in the rank of second
> lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to the rank of lieutenant effective
> the date of successful completion of the required basic officer training.
> A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the CFRP, whose rank
> is warrant officer or below and who has attained the SLC qualification will
> be commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant with simultaneous
> promotion to the rank of lieutenant prior to the commencement of the
> required basic officer training.  The commissioning date will be set by
> NDHQ.  Those CFRP candidates who are required to complete their MOC
> training prior to attending the basic officer training will be commissioned
> effective the date of successful completion of the basic officer training
> but will have their seniority adjusted to the basic officer training
> graduation date for the other candidates on their CFRP intake.
> 
> 
> 21.    A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the CFRP, whose
> substantive or acting (lacks qualification) rank is master warrant officer
> or chief warrant officer, will be commissioned in the rank of second
> lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to the rank of captain.  The
> commissioning date will be set by NDHQ.  Effective date and seniority date
> will be the date of commissioning for those CFRP officers commissioned
> after 1 Jan 81.  Those CFRP candidates who are required to undertake their
> MOC training prior to commissioning will be commissioned on successful
> completion of the required MOC training with seniority adjusted to that of
> the other candidates on their CFRP intake.




Both references should be read in their entirety to fully understand the processes that are to be followed.


----------



## mr.rhtuner

Rowshambow said:
			
		

> There are lots (OK a few) ways to do it.
> 
> 1) CFR-Commision From the Ranks, you should be min Sgt but will accept outstanding MCpl's
> 2) CEOTP- Continuing Education Officer Training Program, you only need to be a Cpl, and have to finish a degree (on your own time) before your IE is finished
> 3) UTPNCM- University Training Plan NCM, Cpl's and above, apply to go to school and then trade training in summer etc, kinda like ROTP, can go to civi or RMC
> 4) SCP- Special Commissioning Plan, Cpl's and up, once you have a degree (we see more people coming in with degree's now) then you can go Officer after you do the NCM time.
> 
> Anyways, if you look on the recruiting site, many of these should be posted, as that's where I got it from when I looked into it years ago. Or ask a BPSO!




Thank you for the information!


----------



## oldandgrey

Here is some add info

UTP-NCM (UTs) read CFAO 9-13.
info on CEOTP (CTs) can be found on the canforgen and it will lead you to more info on the subject.


----------



## tyciol

Piper said:
			
		

> No.
> 
> Reservists can CT to the regs via ROTP. It happens all the time. Now, reg force NCM's who want to become an officer and get their schooling subsidised would have to apply for the UTPNCM program. There are also reg force and reserve NCM's who become officer's without a degree via the CFR process (this applies to higher ranking NCM's who have alot of experience and time in).


Ah okay, a bit in conflict with the previous person's reply, but I like your answer better  So would joining the reserves to gain experience while one does other things to increase one's viability (like improve grades, volunteer, etc) be a good idea?


----------



## The Dunnminator

tyciol said:
			
		

> Ah okay, a bit in conflict with the previous person's reply, but I like your answer better  So would joining the reserves to gain experience while one does other things to increase one's viability (like improve grades, volunteer, etc) be a good idea?



That's what I did and I honestly think that it is the best thing to do, it has helped me a lot so far and I am sure that it helped me get in because of the valuable experience and it also gives you the opportunity to show that you can be competent and get good course reports which I am sure impact a lot the decision of the selection board. it also gives you an idea of how the military life works and you,ll see if you like it.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

oldandgrey said:
			
		

> UTs program is not the only route you can use. check out the CEOTP as well, this program is open to NCM and Civics.  what you should do is read up CFAOs 9-13 for UTP-NCM and the canforgen on the CEOTP.
> 
> for you to apply as a UT you must be at a min rank of cpl before your file reach the board. *CEOTP has no min rank at this point.*



I don't believe the part I've bolded is true.

From *ADM (HR-MIL) Instructions 09/05, Para 4.2  (DIN/IntraNet Link and Internet Link):

4.2 Eligibility

4.2.1 Civilian applicants must:

- Be eligible for enrolment in the Reg F in accordance with QR&O 6.01 and existing CF enrolment policy 
- Possess at least a High School Leaving Certificate in an academic program leading to acceptance at a Canadian university in an initial degree program meeting CF requirements 

4.2.2 Regular Force NCM applicants must

- Apply for the CEOTP 
- be of substantive Corporal rank or above   
- Be recommended for commissioning by their Commanding Officer and chain of command 
- Meet university acceptance prerequisites as for civilian applicants  

4.2.3 Primary Reserve officer and NCM applicants must

- Component transfer to the Regular Force upon acceptance into the CEOTP 
- Meet university acceptance prerequisites as for civilian applicants 

Note: The CEOTP is a career program, and is not open to members with permanent Medical Employment Restrictions.

*


----------



## oldandgrey

Well, I learn something new... 

And thats why we said...dig it up and read it including the ref....policies changes all the time...

Thank you for updating my info

iper:


----------



## matwxx

Hello All,

I am a graduate from BCIT's Aircraft Maintenance Engineer diploma program. I would like to join the air force under officer entry plan, but was told that the plan is no longer available this year. Believe me, I have read many threads, but just dont see any case related to mine. Continue... I applied Aviation Systems Technician under the NCM plan. Here comes my questions:

1) If CF hired me as NCM this year, and I wish to transfer to OFFICER plan next year, am I required to complete UTPNCM or CEOTP, or do I have to quit the job and reapply as OFFICER? 

2) My second question is related to contract, do the NCM and OFFICER plans both require to sign contract of duty due to subsidized education?


----------



## ModlrMike

The short answer is that in order to enter as a DEO (Direct Entry Officer) you need a degree, not a diploma. If you were to apply to compete a degree then UTPNCM would be the route to take. There are other options available, but the also require you have a degree. You would no have to release and rejoin in order to commission.

Any subsidized education programme has with it the requirement to serve in order to pay back the subsidization. Obligatory service requirements are the same for everybody regardless of rank; that is two months of service for every month of subsidized education.


----------



## matwxx

Thanks for the reply. Actually I had contacted the recruit centre before and I was told to be able to apply OFFICER plan with my diploma next september 2010, since BCIT is treated an an university nowadays. When I asked the agent, he mentioned about unit change application. But from the forum, the answers are into UTPNCM or CEOTP route.

Therefore, please clarify. Thanks very much.


----------



## medaid

If you have a diploma, its a diploma it is NOT a degree and thus not eligible for DEO.

If you have a degree from BCIT then you have a degree and is eligible for DEO.


----------



## Nauticus

To elaborate further:
2 years = diploma

4 years = degree.


----------



## matwxx

Thanks for the answers, 

I might have mistype few words and confused you all. The officer plan I am referring is ROTP, not DEO. What are the difference between the 2?


----------



## tree hugger

I think the big question for you is not whether or not you want to go officer but what occupation do you want?  It sounds like you are well set up to enter one of the techy air force trades....


----------



## the_girlfirend

matwxx said:
			
		

> The officer plan I am referring is ROTP, not DEO. What are the difference between the 2?



As written on the CF recruiting website 
http://www.forces.ca/html/index.aspx?lang=en

Direct Entry Officer (DEO)
As a minimum, applicants to the Regular Force must have an undergraduate degree in a suitable discipline. A student currently in the final year of a degree program is also eligible to apply. Recruiting bonuses are offered to applicants who are trained in occupations for which the CF have an urgent need, such as physicians and dentists.

Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP)
This plan is designed to educate and develop for commissioning, selected civilian candidates for service as Regular Forces career officers. Selected candidates are appointed the rank of officer cadet for the period of their subsidization and commissioned subsequent to successful completion of their academic program and requisite military training. Subsidization is carried out at the Royal Military College (RMC) or at an approved Canadian University and/or affiliated College.

there you go...


----------



## matwxx

Oh, so actually the two's are different plan. I like to stay with my family. Does NCM require to sign any contract for overseas mission?


----------



## the_girlfirend

It does not matter if you are NCM or Officer.

If you join the regular force, 
you will have to move to a base (with your family) and probably deploy on operations overseas, or leave for training... all this for weeks and months at a time (without your family)
When you join the regular force, you cannot choose what you want, you go where you are needed.

If you join the reserve,
you work part time (Tuesday nights and 1-2 weekends a month) they can subsidize your education at 50%, you may leave for training or full time employment in the summer. Although it is primarily a part time job, there are full time opportunities in the reserves. You serve according to your availabilities.


----------



## matwxx

the_girlfirend said:
			
		

> It does not matter if you are NCM or Officer.
> 
> If you join the regular force,
> you will have to move to a base (with your family) and probably deploy on operations overseas, or leave for training... all this for weeks and months at a time (without your family)
> When you join the regular force, you cannot choose what you want, you go where you are needed.
> 
> If you join the reserve,
> you work part time (Tuesday nights and 1-2 weekends a month) they can subsidize your education at 50%, you may leave for training or full time employment in the summer. Although it is primarily a part time job, there are full time opportunities in the reserves. You serve according to your availabilities.




Wow!! Thanks the_girlfirend for the answer. I guess I will switch to reserves once I am employed. That way, I could stay with my family and upgrade my education to degree and master, and apply full time job thru commercial aircraft to earn B1 lisence. Then if any luck, earn my military lisence second.


----------



## Blackadder1916

My assumption is that you wish to apply for an "air force" occupation.  You should note that there are limited air force reserve units.  Part-time reserve service could only be done at those locations and only if they have a position available that matches your occupation.

In BC these are the Air Reserve locations.  Locations elsewhere in Canada are at the link.  http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/ar-ra/page-eng.asp?id=754

Comox, BC
Air Reserve Flight
19 Wing

Pat Bay, BC
443 Maritime Helicopter Squadron

Abbotsford, BC
192 Airfield Engineering Flight
(note: AEFs are comprised of skilled construction and engineering or engineering related tradespeople who support the Air Force during deployed and non deployed operations.)


----------



## Eye In The Sky

the_girlfirend said:
			
		

> If you join the regular force, you will have to move to a base (with your family) and probably deploy on operations overseas, or leave for training... all this for weeks and months at a time (without your family)



This is not true the way you say it.  AVN Tech students who are married can move their families to Borden on the 3's course.  ATIS Tech students can move their families to Kingston while doing POET and QL3, and I could list more.  With the length of trg some NCM and Officer trades go thru, having your family there with you is NOT always the case in this day and age.

Saying things like this is misleading.  If you don't know what you are talking about or cannot provide all the info, you shouldn't provide bad information.  



> When you join the regular force, you cannot choose what you want, you go where you are needed.



You sure can choose where you want to go.  3 posting preferences.  You are not guarunteed to get 1, or any of them.  However, they will try to post you where you want, if they can and if there is a spot for you there.  



> If you join the reserve, you work part time (Tuesday nights and 1-2 weekends a month) they can subsidize your education at 50%, you may leave for training or full time employment in the summer. Although it is primarily a part time job, there are full time opportunities in the reserves. You serve according to your availabilities.



You really really should stop posting incorrect info.  Not all Reserve Cl A trg is Tuesday nights and 1-2 weekends.  You can also leave for trg or Class B/Class C employment at times other than the summer.  

Are you even in the CF??


----------



## PuckChaser

the_girlfirend said:
			
		

> they can subsidize your education at 50%



50% up to a maximum of $2000 a year, over 4 years ($8000 subsidy total).


----------



## the_girlfirend

eye in the sky,

I was giving him a very general answer, because I was judging by his questions that he was at the very beginning of the thinking/joining process. Any applicant will end up talking to a recruiter and get more personalized advising... you want to share more detailed info... you are free to do so...


----------



## Roy Harding

Eye In The Sky and the_girlfirend:

Both of you have good intentions, and have contributed in your own way to the topic.

Let it go.


Roy


----------



## Eye In The Sky

:dontfeedmods:

 ;D


----------



## PuckChaser

After googling the Diploma you have, I would say that working as a NCM in the Air Force in one of the tech trades would be more in line with what you studied in school. Depending on the trade, you may even qualify for semi-skilled entry.


----------



## matwxx

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> After googling the Diploma you have, I would say that working as a NCM in the Air Force in one of the tech trades would be more in line with what you studied in school. Depending on the trade, you may even qualify for semi-skilled entry.



Appreciated for all your pro answers and responses. Please let me some more questions since you guys are the pros. 

Initially, I thought there were only 5 entry plans to apply. I thought semi-skilled is only the name of position after trained. The reasons I intended to ask more into plans is because I am more concern about the salary paid. Please advise or comment below.

1) Do all NCM plans pay the same rate or differ in the first year? 

2) When you applied for regular force, will the military pay for the relocation for your family if you're married?

3) I failed CFAT, but they said I am 1 score away from the passing rate and was told to retest. Let's say now I joined as a military police reserves because this is another trade I am interested in and I like to know more about military life earlier. If I happen to pass the retest few months later, is it possible to transfer into another trade in regular force at that time?


----------



## medaid

matwxx, 

    I say this with all the niceness I can muster. QUIT ASKING PEOPLE TO DO YOUR RESEARCH FOR YOU. Go to CFRC where all the real "pros" are and get your answers there. Unless a member on here is a Recruiter the information you receive may or may not be accurate and current. 

    There are tons of threads RE: rates of pay/relocation/CT why don't you start SEARCHING and READ THEM? Now I only say this because we can't go through this charade with EVERY SINGLE applicant that comes on here. It takes of bandwidth and it takes up time from people's lives! This is NOT CF Recruiter On-Line. This is MILNET.CA (Army.Ca, Navy.Ca, AirForce.Ca), as much as we (members of the CF) would like to answer your questions, we'd like to see potential applicants, and future members of the CF take some fracking initiative and DO IT ON THEIR ON. This applies to NCM candidates, and ESPECIALLY OFFICER candidates too. 

    You're going to BCIT Aerospace Campus which is located in Richmond, BC and is only 20mins drive from Sherman Armories where the 12 MP Pl, 15MP Coy is located. Want to know about MPs? Go talk to them. Want to know more about the recruiting process? Go talk to CFRC. Take some fracking initiative. Jebus.


----------



## matwxx

Thanks for your comment. I did talk to them already, but I am just asking if any of you have any experience before. As you see every case / everyone is different. I am not asking you to do any research for me, even I did, dont think you would do that. If you dont have the experience, you may comment me. But you dont stop people from asking questions here. That's what forum is designed for. I did search and read many pages of threads, but just dont find my answers. Forgive me, I am only expecting answers from experienced members. I am not here to set up any controversy.


----------



## Roy Harding

matwxx said:
			
		

> Thanks for your comment. I did talk to them already, but I am just asking if any of you have any experience before. As you see every case / everyone is different. I am not asking you to do any research for me, even I did, dont think you would do that. If you dont have the experience, you may comment me. But you dont stop people from asking questions here. That's what forum is designed for. I did search and read many pages of threads, but just dont find my answers. Forgive me, I am only expecting answers from experienced members. I am not here to set up any controversy.



Fair enough, matwxx - there are many threads available here - some which may touch on your subject.  I STRONGLY recommend that you utilize the Search Page - http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/index.php?action=search

That search will comb the entire contents of Milnet.ca - as opposed to the search you may initiate in whatever thread you happen to find yourself.  The latter search will ONLY return hits from whatever forum you happen to be in.

If you need a hand searching - PM me (understanding that I'm not always "here").


Roy


----------



## ubergeek_123

Can anyone tell me if the UTPNCM for this year's competition as come out yet?  If so, could you please PM or post it?
I am currently on leave and have no access to the DWAN, so any info on this would be appreciated.

Also, I would like to correspond with anyone that has gone through the process.  I have a few questions!  

Cheers,

--
UG


----------



## PuckChaser

matwxx said:
			
		

> 1) Do all NCM plans pay the same rate or differ in the first year?
> 
> 2) When you applied for regular force, will the military pay for the relocation for your family if you're married?
> 
> 3) I failed CFAT, but they said I am 1 score away from the passing rate and was told to retest. Let's say now I joined as a military police reserves because this is another trade I am interested in and I like to know more about military life earlier. If I happen to pass the retest few months later, is it possible to transfer into another trade in regular force at that time?



1) Yes, only difference is SpecPay which you don't get until you're a QL5 Cpl.

2) Yes, after you get your first posting.

3) When you OT (switch trades) you can write the CFAT again so that you get the score you need. If you're in the RegF, you need a minimum of QL3 to switch into another trade, and then you get put on a list.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> 3) When you OT (switch trades) you can write the CFAT again so that you get the score you need. If you're in the RegF, you need a minimum of QL3 to switch into another trade, and then you get put on a list.



I think you'd better re-read CFAO 11-12 again  ;D.

Depending on your situation determines your OT:

- if not QL3 qual'd yet, you can request a MOC reassignment;
- if you are Combat Arms, you need 36 months service and QL4 qual (QL3 if your MOC doesn't have QL4); and
- if you are not Combat Arms, you need 48 months service and QL4 qual (QL3 if your MOC doesn't have QL4) to be eligible to APPLY for an OT.

Always remember, OTs are not guarunteed and the health of your current trade will determine how many people can OT out each year (2% of the TES for green trades, 1% for amber and 0.5% for red trades).


----------



## matwxx

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Always remember, OTs are not guarunteed and the health of your current trade will determine how many people can OT out each year (2% of the TES for green trades, 1% for amber and 0.5% for red trades).



I read some of the QL3 threads this morning. All I know of QL3 is qualification level 3. Dont have a clue what these are or I can't find them yet. 

In this case, do you recommend me not to join a trade unless I am 100% gauranteed its the trade I am mostly interested?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

matwxx said:
			
		

> I read some of the QL3 threads this morning. All I know of QL3 is qualification level 3. Dont have a clue what these are or I can't find them yet.
> 
> In this case, do you recommend me not to join a trade unless I am 100% gauranteed its the trade I am mostly interested?



QL3 is your basic trades course.  QL4 is the next level of course for your trade for trades that have a QL4.  Some don't, you go right to QL5.  Why?  Doesn't matter so don't worry about that, k?   

I would always say make sure, to a reasonable level, you are interested in the trade you are getting into, as it is NEVER a guaruntee that you will get a remuster/change of trades at a later date.  You can apply, sure, but you might not get it for the reasons I stated earlier.


----------



## George Wallace

matwxx said:
			
		

> I read some of the QL3 threads this morning. All I know of QL3 is qualification level 3. Dont have a clue what these are or I can't find them yet.
> 
> In this case, do you recommend me not to join a trade unless I am 100% gauranteed its the trade I am mostly interested?



Do you like smoking cigars?


----------



## matwxx

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Do you like smoking cigars?



Well yea, I bought packs from the states and smoking right now. A bit expansive but they worth it. I also bought a Hookah from Dubai. Are cigars allow in the military?


----------



## George Wallace

matwxx said:
			
		

> Well yea, I bought packs from the states and smoking right now. A bit expansive but they worth it. I also bought a Hookah from Dubai. Are cigars allow in the military?



Nothing stopping you from smoking cigars in the CF, except common sense as to when and where you do so.

Now back on topic, as you do like smoking cigars, lets just pick something that you really aren't too keen on, and substitute it into your question (ie. change a few words and substitute "something that you are not to keen on doing").

Does that make any sense?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

matwxx said:
			
		

> Well yea, I bought packs from the states and smoking right now. A bit expansive but they worth it. I also bought a Hookah from Dubai. Are cigars allow in the military?



POOF!  Right over his head George!


----------



## matwxx

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Nothing stopping you from smoking cigars in the CF, except common sense as to when and where you do so.
> 
> Now back on topic, as you do like smoking cigars, lets just pick something that you really aren't too keen on, and substitute it into your question (ie. change a few words and substitute "something that you are not to keen on doing").
> 
> Does that make any sense?



Well, joining the military asap as to learn the life in military early instead. It would be lucky if there are trades that could utilize my academic background.


----------



## George Wallace

matwxx said:
			
		

> Well, I want to join the military asap as to learn the life in military early instead of wasting time. It would be lucky if there are trades that could utilize my academic background.



Don't be silly.  Don't ever have the opinion that you are so unique that the CF absolutely needs your particular 'qualifications'.  You really aren't.  The CF will bring in hundreds of people, all of whom think they are 'unique' and 'special'.  All of them will have to conduct the same training and not all of them will graduate.  You are but one.  When the CF is ready for you, they will enroll you.  Until then, make sure that the occupations/Trades that you select are ones that you will honestly be willing to have a long fulfilling career in.  Do Not pick a job because it will get you into the CF faster, as it could just as easily result in your leaving the CF faster, as a Training Failure.


----------



## MJP

Unless it came out today, it hasn't been released as of yet.

There are quite a few people that have gone the UTPNCM route on this site, including myself.  I would suggest doing a quick search to see if anyone has talked about the questions you have or have gone the trade route that you desire to better tailor your questions/PMs.


----------



## Rowshambow

It's open out here in Edmonton, I'll try and post it for you

University Training Plan for Non-Commissioned Members (UTPNCM)  

The following is a brief overview of the major points regarding the UTPNCM program.  For more detailed information one should consult CFAO 9-13.  This web page is intended for general information only, where any perceived discrepancies exist between this website and CFAO 9-13, the CFAO shall be deemed to be correct as it is the CF authority.

 Open:  BPSO deadline 30 Sep 09

Message

 The purpose of the UTPNCM is to develop selected candidates for service as career Officers in the Regular Force.  It is stressed that the UTPNCM program is intended only for those who have displayed personal qualities and job performance indicative of Officer potential.  

The UTPNCM is first and foremost an officer production program, with academic upgrading included as part of the plan.  Academic upgrading can consist of up to four years of study to pursue an undergraduate degree. 

Once selected for subsidization under the UTPNCM program, candidates will attend Basic Officer Training prior to the start of their first year of studies.  

Upon completion of the first year of studies candidates will normally attend a summer of Second Language Training (unless already bilingual).  

Subsequent summers after the second, third and fourth year of study are spent conducting the Phase training appropriate for the candidate's Officer MOC. 

Candidates selected for UTPNCM will be given the rank of Officer Cadet while undergoing training and will be promoted to 2Lt upon graduation from university.



Minimum Eligibility Requirements
 An applicant must be able to complete all academic training and obligatory service prior to the end of their IE contract (25 years service).  Normally 4 years of study would incur 5 years of obligatory service.  Therefore a member would need at least nine years left in their contract from the commencement of academic studies; or phrased another way, a member would not normally be able to have more than 11 years in the CF prior to commencement of studies.  It should be noted, however that those who have already completed a year or more, of university will require less subsidization and incur less obligatory service. Therefore, depending on the amount of studies completed to date, a member may be able to apply even if they have more than 10 years in service.  For more information on obligatory service, refer to DAOD 5049-1.  If you have questions on whether you have enough time to apply please contact the PSO office. 



An applicant must have successfully completed a minimum of two full credit university courses or their equivalent. Community college courses designated by the college as university transfer courses, or accepted by a university as such, are acceptable in meeting eligibility requirements. Credits granted for other training or experience do not count towards meeting this eligibility requirement

An applicant may not normally possess a baccalaureate degree.  If an applicant does possess a degree they should consult the Special Commissioning Plan on this site, and  (CFAO 9-70).  In certain cases where an applicant possesses a degree that is not relevant to their intended Officer MOC they may apply for a waiver and apply under UTPNCM. (i.e. if an applicant has a Bachelor of History degree but is seeking sponsorship under UTPNCM to become a Nursing Officer.) Applicants with specific questions should consult the PSO.

An applicant must be of the Corporal rank (substantive) or above by the closing date of the competition.

An applicant must meet the minimum medical category of their desired Officer MOC.

An applicant must be able to provide proof of application to a civilian university.

An applicant must choose a course of study that is relevant to their desired Officer MOC as per Annex A to CFAO 9-12.



http://edmonton.mil.ca/1asg/asu%20web/bpso/PersSel/UTPNCM.asp

Hope it helps!


----------



## Polski

Hi guys,

I have searched and searched and have not been able to find the answer I have been looking for.

I have a degree in Finance and am eligible to do DOE but chose to join as an NCM (Combat Eng) for my first contract.  I would like to eventually switch over to an officer role some day as I get a little older.  Is it an easy transition with a degree already complete?  

Thanks,

James


----------



## Michael OLeary

That all depends on what you consider "easy."  If you mean can you just say "I'd like to be an officer now" and have your career switch tracks, then the answer is "no".

Selection for commissioning as an NCM is determined by the various regulations that control each plan.  At a minimum, you would need to be supported by your unit chain of command to be considered, and have to undergo interviews by a Personnel Selection Officer to determine suitability (similar to the CFRC interview requirements) and possibly retake the CFAT to confirm suitability for commissioning in the desired trade.

There are a number of threads which discuss in detail the options for NCM vs. officer career paths and the various issued associated with expecting to switch from NCM to officer once serving.


----------



## matwxx

Polski said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> 
> I have searched and searched and have not been able to find the answer I have been looking for.
> 
> I have a degree in Finance and am eligible to do DOE but chose to join as an NCM (Combat Eng) for my first contract.  I would like to eventually switch over to an officer role some day as I get a little older.  Is it an easy transition with a degree already complete?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> James



Why would you join CF with a finance degree? Why not investment Bank?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Because he/she wants to serve in the military.

(I thought I'd state the obvious...)


----------



## Polski

matwxx said:
			
		

> Why would you join CF with a finance degree? Why not investment Bank?



Hi Matt, A little about myself.  I used to work as a Hedge Fund Accountant,  the finance world is just not for me.  I was sick of helping the rich get richer.  I didn't like the idea of doing something so meaningless IMO.  I am enlisting in the CF so that I can have an opportunity to help others here in Canada as well as around the world.  If I can help make a difference in someone else s life, that makes a huge difference in my life.  It's not about the money, the glory, etc... It's about me and what I want.


----------



## Polski

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> That all depends on what you consider "easy."  If you mean can you just say "I'd like to be an officer now" and have your career switch tracks, then the answer is "no".
> 
> Selection for commissioning as an NCM is determined by the various regulations that control each plan.  At a minimum, you would need to be supported by your unit chain of command to be considered, and have to undergo interviews by a Personnel Selection Officer to determine suitability (similar to the CFRC interview requirements) and possibly retake the CFAT to confirm suitability for commissioning in the desired trade.
> 
> There are a number of threads which discuss in detail the options for NCM vs. officer career paths and the various issued associated with expecting to switch from NCM to officer once serving.



Thanks for the reply!


----------



## PMedMoe

matwxx said:
			
		

> Why would you join CF with a finance degree? Why not investment Bank?



Why would you join the CF with a Aircraft Maintenance Engineer diploma?  Why not Air Canada?


----------



## matwxx

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Why would you join the CF with a Aircraft Maintenance Engineer diploma?  Why not Air Canada?



Air Canada is not hiring junior positions. But there's always high demands in I-Bank or finance industries, even tho the global is experiencing a financial crisis.


----------



## Roy Harding

In the interest of avoiding the pending dogpile - bring this thread back on topic (NCM to Officer), or I will lock it.

There are other threads for discussing the relative merits of different employment options.


Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## ubergeek_123

MJP,

I have searched the forum and still have a few lingering questions.  I will send you a PM shortly.  Thanks for the response.

Rowshambow,

Thanks for the info.  I can't access the DWAN presently but will check out as soon as I return from leave.

Cheers,

--
UB


----------



## Atheist_in_a_Foxhole

Hi all.

I was wondering: presuming all other factors are good enough for me to get signed, would there be any pressure upon me to become an officer if I already have a university degree? I don't really want to go the officer route(at least not initially).

I also took the practice CFAT on the Canadian Forces website and got every question correct. I don't know if this is representative of the real test, but I was wondering if a good score will factor into things either as far as speciality is concerned. I'm most interested in NCM Infantry or Military Police. Considering Intelligence Officer, but it's a third choice.

I really don't mean to sound cocky or anything. Being hired obviously isn't even a sure thing, and right now I'm not even fit to lick the boots of anyone who has done a tour. But I'm just curious as to whether they frown upon people taking an MOS that they superficially appear to be "overqualified" for. It won't impact my decision, but I've heard about recruiters being very aggressive about things like this.


----------



## PuckChaser

Make it clear to the recruiter that you would prefer to be a NCM, you shouldn't have an issue after that. It may come up in the interview, but they won't turn you down for being "overqualified". I know quite a few people that have degrees or diplomas as NCMs.

BTW... MOS is American. You are picking a MOC (Military Occupation Code), or MOSID (Military Occupation Specialty ID or something).


----------



## CFR FCS

Well educated (degreed) NCM applicants are more common than you think. Most of these applicants are looking to gain the military practical experience by being hands on and not be employed in a management role to start with. It doesn't matter what the recruiter tries to "guide" you to you should process for what you want. After all it's still your choice.  If after you gain experience you decide to become an Officer it will be less of a challenge for you if your degree is applicable to your MOC choice.


----------



## Atheist_in_a_Foxhole

Thank you both. I didn't expect to get rejected on that basis, but I'd just heard a friend rant about getting drilled by his recruiter for "not utilizing his background effectively." It sounds like there wouldn't be an issue brushing that off and fitting in, though.

I also appreciate the correction about the code. The person who I've spend the most time chatting with about military matters is an American MP, so I guess I need to brush up on the terminology a bit before I make an *** out of myself at the recruiting office. Got two years of schooling left while I can study the Forces.



By the way, I love the signature quote, CFR FCS.


----------



## GAP

Have you considered reserves while you are in school? This would give you excellent insight for making a future decision, based on experience rather than other people's preferences


----------



## Atheist_in_a_Foxhole

I would love to be in the Reserves and have looked into ways to accommodate doing so, but it isn't feasible for me at the moment.


----------



## kratz

Keep in mind, depending on the area you live in, there may also be a Air Reserve unit, or Naval Reserve unit. Their trades and courses may potentially better fit your circumstances. There are many threads discussing these topics and more people here willing to assist in answering your questions.

**Edit to add: Naval Reserve has Intelligence Officer MOC. There may be other trades which you had not considered with ARAF or NavRes.


----------



## Atheist_in_a_Foxhole

Thanks, kratz. I'll explore that further as well as stick around here for any questions I might have. Seems like a supportive and knowledgeable community.


----------



## FDO

I just want to chime in here and explain what it is we do. I can understand your friend saying he was "drilled" by a Recruiter. As a parent I understand that sometimes it seems like we are "drilling you" The recruiter may have tried to explain the differences between Officer and NCM. Sometimes we do get wordy on this because most people we talk to have no idea what the difference is. Of course if you have a degree and you want to be an NCM we will respect your choice but bare in mind that its our job to make sure you are well informed of all your options. Just so you know that if you are looking at a trade that directly relates to your degree you MAY be able to enrol as "semi-skilled " as opposed to "unskilled". It does have some benifits if accepted.  Look into it. Also there is always "Direct Entry Officer" (DEO) You can apply in your last year of university. (sorry couldn't resist)


----------



## Loachman

Atheist_in_a_Foxhole said:
			
		

> right now I'm not even fit to lick the boots of anyone who has done a tour.



Wrong.


----------



## Loachman

And I meant that in a nice way, not "you are fit to lick the boots of anyone who has done a tour".


----------



## meni0n

Didn't want to start a new thread. Hopefully someone can answer this question. The message states that you need to be QL5 qualified to apply so let's say someone who is 5s qualified did a VOT to another trade and holds QL3 in that trade. Is it still possible to get accepted for UTPNCM or do you need to get 5s qualified in the new trade before applying?


----------



## CallOfDuty

Has anyone who's done UTPNCM at civvy university applied for universities outside of their home area?  I live in Halifax( good Uni's here), but would like to try university in Ottawa, or Victoria.


----------



## MJP

Yes, a good portion of the UTP's that I know picked Universities that were not in their area.  Sometimes it was a way to get back home, other times because one school had a better program than what was offered where they live.


----------



## ubergeek_123

Has anyone heard about the date the board is sitting?  I had understood that it was in early Jan, but I heard today that it is not sitting until 11-Mar.  I thought that it would be a bit late for it given that they are stated in the message that COS is 1-April or so. 

Thanks in advanced!

G


----------



## ubergeek_123

Just updating the topic.    Any well connected people know when the board is sitting?


----------



## generalmeow

There was mention in another thread that the board might be sitting late this year.  Just wondering if #1 anyone can confirm or deny this and #2 if anyone has received an offer for UTPNCM for 2010 yet?

Please post if you know anything, I'm dying of anticipation here!


----------



## ubergeek_123

Not that this is going to help. The Board has sat and the offers/msgs should be out soon.  I am on the same boat.


----------



## generalmeow

Thanks for the info, definitely let me (and anyone else reading this) know when you get your offer.  Best of luck to you.


----------



## ubergeek_123

Will do if/when I get any type of msg!


----------



## trigger324

i'm standing by for an ot message...any day now i think!!

i think all these messages run along the same time line


----------



## Copper_Sunrise

I'm in the same boat as everyone else, my application is in just waiting for a reply. If anyone hears any more information or gets an offer please let me know and I will do the same.

Thanks


----------



## Copper_Sunrise

Hey guys I have a personal contact who spoke directly with board contacts
The board sat last week, and messages should be out by the end of next week if not sooner
good luck


----------



## ubergeek_123

... so.. anyone hear anything?


----------



## fndr4ever

I've been waiting for a reply as well.  My unit adjt said he contacted dmca and was told they would be putting the messages out after the march break, which is this week.  Wait and see i suppose.


----------



## wheel spanner

I have seen a few offers on the east coast come in today, but all for RMC.


----------



## fndr4ever

wheel spanner said:
			
		

> I have seen a few offers on the east coast come in today, but all for RMC.



Just wondering if the non-acceptance messages are coming out at the same time?


----------



## Occam

fndr4ever said:
			
		

> Just wondering if the non-acceptance messages are coming out at the same time?



In past years, I've noticed that the non-acceptance messages typically trail the acceptance messages.  It would appear that some priority is given to getting the offers out to facilitate moves, etc.


----------



## generalmeow

I believe that upon offer you have something like 10 business days to respond and accept.  Then I'd imagine that 2nd round of offers go out, again with another 10 business days to respond.. last year it seemed to be about 6 weeks between offers and rejections going out.  I had one friend who made it and one who didn't.  Perhaps I'm wrong but this is what I recall from my collegues from last year.   Still nothing for me, I'm in central Canada.


----------



## Wookilar

RMC offers come first as they get to pick which UT's they want. Messages go out with the offer, acceptance (or not) come back in and then the majority of the messages go out. Some may get released early (such as the ones in programs not eligible for RMC i.e. Pharmacy, Nursing, Padre).

If anyone needs info on what RMC is like now, get in touch with someone in Otter Sqn or send me an email. It is much different (better) than it was even 2 years ago.

Oh, and they say every year that they are trying to get the messages out earlier. Said it in 2005...said it again this year lol. Expect end Mar - 1st week Apr.

Wook


----------



## tristismilitis

Does anyone have an idea if BMOQ will be this summer for those accepting UTPNCM offers in the next few weeks? 
I've read that new ROTP Civy U students wait until the summer after their first year of University (as of last year), but I haven't found any recent info for UT candidates that have to do a BMOQ (or portions of).
Good luck to everyone waiting!

tm.


----------



## MJP

tristismilitis said:
			
		

> Does anyone have an idea if BMOQ will be this summer for those accepting UTPNCM offers in the next few weeks?
> I've read that new ROTP Civy U students wait until the summer after their first year of University (as of last year), but I haven't found any recent info for UT candidates that have to do a BMOQ (or portions of).
> Good luck to everyone waiting!
> 
> tm.



No, if required you'll do your BMOQ the summer following your acceptance into UTPNCM.


----------



## generalmeow

tristismilitis said:
			
		

> Does anyone have an idea if BMOQ will be this summer for those accepting UTPNCM offers in the next few weeks?
> I've read that new ROTP Civy U students wait until the summer after their first year of University (as of last year), but I haven't found any recent info for UT candidates that have to do a BMOQ (or portions of).
> Good luck to everyone waiting!
> 
> tm.



My collegue form last year who got accepted was being loaded this summer for his BMOQ.  If you have your land PLQ completed then you can get yourself exempt from portions of it from what I understand.


----------



## ubergeek_123

Official stance from the CDA is that if you have PLQ and you submit the paperwork you will get BMOQ MOD 1 & 2 granted.  All you need to do is email or fax a copy of your offer, MPRR and course report to their e-mail (check their intranet site out).  There is no requirement to get a COs letter again, the offer of UTP acceptance is enough.  The reasoning behind this is that since you were recommended already there is no need to create further admin work for your CoC.

If you need more information contact the CDA directly. I am sure they will be more than happy to answer your questions and help you out.

Disclaimer:  I am on the offer waiting band wagon.


----------



## tristismilitis

Yes the waiting game is not an easy time but it is a constant theme.
I made it through the "waiting for an offer stage" (couple years ago) and now I'm at the "waiting for the outcome of a PLAR stage" in order to see what portions of BMOQ will be written off.

When I initially accepted my offer the word was that I wouldn't need to do the IAP portion, but since then the course has been combined/renamed/ changed lengths etc and some of my documents went AWOL making it look on paper as if I had not done a basic training course when I first joined. 

Although it's humorous (in a ridiculous sort of way) to have it look like I made it this far in my career without basic, the temporarily missing record has prolonged the process slightly. So, while I wait for the outcome I thought I'd check here see if anyone from this year has word on what their summer training plans will be if they accept an offer. 

I know the combined BMOQ course last year had people join in the 7-8th week for the portion that used to be BOTC, but it seem things change just about every year.

Ah well, I should be used to waiting by this time but I can't seem to help getting a bit antsy. Thanks to everyone for replying, I'm sure I'll be seeing you guys in St. Jean in a few months (for those that don't have all of BMOQ written off).


----------



## MJP

tristismilitis said:
			
		

> Ah well, I should be used to waiting by this time but I can't seem to help getting a bit antsy. Thanks to everyone for replying, I'm sure I'll be seeing you guys in St. Jean in a few months (for those that don't have all of BMOQ written off).



You won't see them in a few months, the time frame for UTPs to receive their messages and do their cost move (if applicable) does not match when courses are running.  Most UTPs will have the first portion written off and join in week 8, which means starting BMOQ sometime in June to finish in time for school.  This would preclude a UTP candidate from doing their move in a timely manner and so if needed they will do their BMOQ the next summer.  

As for the PLAR I wouldn't worry about it to much unless you have exception circumstances that need explaining.  The last few years the SEMs have automatically sent a mass PLAR to CDA for all new UTPs.  This was to ensure that they weren't sending people on course that didn't need it.

edited for spelling


----------



## WattBot

So has no one seen messages yet for civi universities?


----------



## Glenjal

I just did a search on MCOIN and saw that there were two UTPNCM offers sent out on Friday.  These were for bachelor of science Nursing degrees for Dalhousie and Memorial, so I doubt that this affect most of the applicants; since a nursing degree isn't offered at RMC.   I'm hoping/betting that the next round of messages go out by the 1st April, since that would make ten days since the first RMC offers went out on the 22nd.  
Good luck.


----------



## Copper_Sunrise

Just an update my base has received my offer and I should be signing sometime within the next day or so. I will be going to RMC for Bachelor of Science. Good luck to everyone else and let me know if you need anymore info.


----------



## Wookilar

Copper,

Make sure you get your academic PLAR done asap if you have not done so already. Admin Svcs at CDA (Tim Hochban and co.) will hook you up. You are eligible for some Science credits for POET.

You may have had a PLAR done already, but check and see if the Science Dept will want another one now that you are going full time.

In 1st year, you will be glad of even 1 spare class.

Wook


----------



## fndr4ever

I just got my offer for Pilot! BSc at RMC.  Thanks to all for the good info posted.


----------



## niceasdrhuxtable

WattBot said:
			
		

> So has no one seen messages yet for civi universities?



I got my offer for Pilot at University of Waterloo yesterday.


----------



## ubergeek_123

Has anyone else received Civi U offers?


----------



## generalmeow

I'm still waiting on a civi offer myself.


----------



## wheel spanner

I am also still waiting


----------



## ances

I got accepted for RMC. Anyone know when the posting msgs will be cut. I.E COS dates, HHT and all that stuff?


----------



## Semper_Fidelis

I received my Offer to Acadia University March 29th. This year they seem to be slower because they are coming via snail mail. The effective date is July 1st so I imagine COS date can't be more than 15 days after correct me if I'm wrong.
Good Luck everyone still waiting.


----------



## ash_of_S-Mart

I received an offer today for civi university as MPO.  Date of message was April 6th.  Also got an email from someone trying to round up responses from people who had not accepted yet so that they can get ready to send out second round of offers.  Good luck for those still waiting!


----------



## Wookilar

Change of Strength can be adjusted 30 days + or - without a change of message. Just takes a memo with a bit of justification.

Wook


----------



## Copper_Sunrise

Anyone who was accepted to RMC get a posting msg yet? my OCdt date is June 1st

Thanks


----------



## wheel spanner

Is there anyone who has not seen an offer or a non-selection message yet?


----------



## Glenjal

I still haven' t recieved an offer or a non-selection message.  I've counted 14 acceptance messages so far for the Marlant area, and a bunch of non-acceptance messages as well.  I applied for CELE-Air, and LogO and have seen only one person accepted for LogO so far.  I looked on an intranet site, and the FAQ's said that secondary offers could take up to three months to put out.  The first messages I saw out were on the 22nd of March.  Hopefully we'll both get  messages soon and hopefully they'll both be acceptance messages.


----------



## wheel spanner

I am in the MARLANT area applying for LogO also, so it is probably stuck on a desk.


----------



## wheel spanner

The last of the non-acceptance messages seem to have come out today, so if you havn't seen anything check the DWAN this morning.


----------



## ubergeek_123

Bringing this thread back to life.  

I only received "verbal" feedback that I was not picked up, which is cool it just means I have to beef up my application for next year.  Are there formal messages that come out stating member x was no selected for this and that reason?  Also, for those who applied, did you get an acknowledgment that D MIL C received your application? 

Cheers,

UG

Edit:  Spelling


----------



## Occam

ubergeek_123 said:
			
		

> Bringing this threat back to life.
> 
> I only received "verbal" feedback that I was not picked up, which is cool it just means I have to beef up my application for next year.  Are there formal messages that come out stating member x was no selected for this and that reason?  Also, for those who applied, did you get an acknowledgment that D MIL C received your application?



There is always a non-acceptance message sent.  The reasons given are somewhat vague, but do tell you if you were not a competitive candidate, or if there was another reason (insufficient positions, etc.).

If you have suspicions that the nomination package didn't make it on time, it would have went under cover of a DND 728 Document Transit and Receipt, so you would be able to find out when it was received at the appropriate authority.

By the way, it's "thread", not "threat".


----------



## ubergeek_123

ha!  I guess spell check doesn't pick up incorrectly used words!

At this point I am a bit suspicious as to whether my package made it on time and was therefore not in the running.  I have made unofficial inquiries through CFSU(O) contacts to check the CR for my name and nothing seems to come up.   I will track down the 278 at my UOR and go from there.

Thanks for the help,

UB


----------



## Occam

ubergeek_123 said:
			
		

> I will track down the 278 at my UOR and go from there.



Just out of curiosity, which unit?


----------



## DamagedOne

I am currently looking into UTPNCM. I hope to be enrolled in UNB for the fall of 2011 for a degree in Sociology. I just had my first appointment with the PSO yesterday afternoon. The idea I had when I first submitted the memo to my chain of command was to OT to Military Police. But, after looking at my pers file and seeing my original score for the aptitude test, she suggested that I apply for UTPNCM. I think this is a great idea. There have been many reflective moments where, hindsight being 20/20, I wish that I had joined as an officer in the first place. I sometimes wondered how difficult it was to change from NCM to Officer and even ventured to ask advice from quite a few people. 

I am currently an ACS Tech and have come to the realization that after being in this trade for 10+ years, it is no longer what I want to do. After many years of working as a civilian before joining the military, going from job to job, I've always had the regret that I didn't apply myself in high school and then go on to university. Now, I really hope that this opportunity presents itself, because I will most definitely take it. Having become an Aircraft Structures Technician as a civilian, I have a transcript of marks from SAIT in Calgary in the Aircraft Structural Repair And Overhaul Technician course from 99/00 in which I had an overall GPA of 2.88. I sent a copy of my transcript to the  Sociology Department at UNB with hopes that they will afford me at least 2 university credits so that I may enter the competition for Officer Selection this coming fall.

Do any of you have any advice that you can pass on to make this whole transition and process thereof any easier?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## armychick2009

I can't help with any of the military stuff transition wise but - I can help a bit with the transition to school-life as an adult. I had several years where I was "working for the man" so to speak and then decided to go from college to university. I felt the same sort of 'regret' you did about not applying myself more in highschool. The plain, simple truth is ... most people don't apply themselves in highschool. They're too busy with their teenage-angst or hanging with their buds...

In fact, I considered myself lucky that I graduated college (which is further than anyone in my family has ever done) and was 'satisfied' with that. However, when I had a few years in of 'real-world', I realised I was capable of even more so I began to go to school part-time while working. Eventually, I went full-time as an 'older learner'. Sad when being 28 classifies you as an older learner, eh? Anyways, it felt weird at the beginning but if you work hard and take your schooling one class at a time, you'll get through it. Some classes are harder than others. You may even find yourself in a class that you had 'no-choice' to take just to find out it's a subject you adore and it could change the course of your whole degree! If anything, you may actually appreciate your university experiences now that you are older and will have a perspective that younger students don't have... you have the life experiences and the ability to see where your classroom experiences can help you in the real-world now.

If for some reason you can't get into the officer selection for this fall, don't stop there. Maybe take a course part-time and gradually work towards your degree. It took me eight years to do four years but in the end, it's a great feeling knowing you accomplished something you may never have thought you could. 

Good luck with everything!


----------



## DamagedOne

The reason that I am really hoping to be selected for UTPNCM is because I am currently the only one working in my family since we just got posted here from Cold Lake in January and my wife hasn't been able to secure any work as of yet. We also have a 14 month old daughter. I must continue paying the bills and cannot afford to pay for these course out of pocket. I know that upon successful completion of these courses, I would be reimbursed, but just can't afford it on my own.


----------



## armychick2009

Hi Damaged one, 

I'll send you a PM with regards to coming up with strategies for paying for school!


A.


----------



## jo_lag

I recently completed my application (DEO) for 3 officer trades, which have recently been closed. It is possible for me to enroll in a NCM trade, and later transfer to an officier trade, considering I already have my university degree ?

And if that is possible, what would be the procedure to do so ?


----------



## George Wallace

I'm not sure which of the many topics covering this subject I should "merge" this to.  

I'll figure tht out later.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Start with the results of this site-specific Google search

site:army.ca "NCM to officer"


----------



## Pusser

I would caution that anyone thinking of joining as and NCM with the intent to become an officer later needs to do some research and think long and hard on that.  It is not as easy as many seem to think.  It is certainly NOT a case of "Well, you already have a degree and now wish to become an officer?  Here is your commission."  It doesn't seem to work that way at all.  My experience (and that of many I have talked to) is that it is far easier to become an officer off the street, than it is to get into one of the NCM commissioning programs.  The NCM commissioning programs are very competitive and seem to have a much more limited number of spaces available than the ones available through the recruiting centre.  I don't want to get into the debate of whether this is right or wrong.  It just happens to seem to be the reality of it.


----------



## BDTyre

To add to what Pusser said, I know of 4 officers in my unit that were comissioned from the ranks.  Two left to join the Navy (one going from Captain to Leading Seaman), and 2 just stopped showing up all together and as far as I know have quit.  I'm sure there's some that have stuck around, but it just strikes me as odd.


----------



## Wookilar

I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. A decade + in a tech trade, knew I had to do something different before I stated hating my job.

With the 2 credits needed for applying, OPME's are your friends. Free (check that, I _think_ they are still free), can be done night school or correspondence, not overly difficult for a start back to school as an adult.

Your CFAT scores are just the begining however. You will need the support of your Chain of Command, in that you need good (if not great) PER's and as part of the application process, your CO writes a letter as to your suitability to be an officer.

If you have any specific questions about things, send me a PM or email.

Wook


----------



## Northalbertan

Confirm, OPME is still free.


----------



## Ridgeline

I have searched the forums for the information, but it is either old or not really what I am looking for.

Therefore if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be appreciated, or if you could help answer my question.

I have a BA in History and I want to join the forces (armour) as a ncm.  I would like to be a NCM for 5 - 7 years and then transfer to be an officer.  I would like information relating to diffrent options to do this.

Also if anyone has a similar story I would really like to hear your story, 

Cheers


----------



## TangoTwoBravo

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?


----------



## MMSS

If you already have a degree then you can enter directly as an officer. If it makes you feel better you can just draw NCM pay for the first five years and send me the difference


----------



## Ridgeline

I am 25, just finished my degree. 

I do know and have thought about DEO.  I have excellent management skills as I own a company .. therefore leadership is not a problem, nor is Money. Also looking at the pay scales the ratio between officer and ncm isn't really that big for the first 5 years, after that however it is significant enough for me to transfer.

But again money is not why I would like to join, I would like to become a ncm for the experience.  I feel it would personally make me a better officer and relate better to the people under me.

With that said I fully intend to become an officer, I am just wondering what kind of programs are available to ncm's to become officers


----------



## Container

Ridgeline said:
			
		

> I have excellent management skills as I own a company .. therefore leadership is not a problem,



Just peaking my nose in- dont mistake management for leadership. Often we suffer under managers with no leadership ability.


----------



## OldSolduer

Container said:
			
		

> Just peaking my nose in- dont mistake management for leadership. Often we suffer under managers with no leadership ability.




You are absolutely right. Leadership and management are very different creatures.


----------



## Ridgeline

agreed, management is diffrent then leadership; however you have to have management for any organisation to function properly.  leadership then follows from organised and efficient management.  You have to know what your goals are to lead your people to that specific goal.

With that said,  I just feel that it would be a great value to be a ncm then become an officer.  Either way, it's life experience.


----------



## ModlrMike

Given the info you've provided, SRCP (Special Requirements Commissioning Plan) might be appropriate. It's not offered every year, nor necessarily open to every classification. A BA in History might make for a weaker application. The programme is intended for NCMs with degrees to enter classifications where their degree is useful.

This is opinion only, and not gospel.


----------



## Ridgeline

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> don't say what you have a degree in, so I can't comment more.



I did mention that I have a History degree

But thank you for the information I will take a look at it


----------



## ModlrMike

Ridgeline said:
			
		

> I did mention that I have a History degree
> 
> But thank you for the information I will take a look at it



You must have posted this just as I was revising mine.  ;D


----------



## Ridgeline

It's all good,

Thanks for the information, It looks like what I was attempting to find.


----------



## George Wallace

MMSS said:
			
		

> If you already have a degree then you can enter directly as an officer. If it makes you feel better you can just draw NCM pay for the first five years and send me the difference



A rather ignorant comment.

Ridgeline

Many with a Degree, such as you, and in the same age group have joined the CF as NCMs.  This is not something new.


----------



## Ridgeline

Thanks George, 

I figured that it's not that uncommon, I just have not found much on the site for people who went that route and options for advancement.

Cheers


----------



## George Wallace

Options for advacement are like in any occupation.  It is the individual and their knowledge, skill sets, personality, capabilities, etc.  A slug will always stay a slug.  Someone who is on the ball and keen will advance much quicker.


----------



## Steve031

I went through this process last year, and I can tell you that it is definitely easier to become an officer as a civilian coming off the street than as an NCM.  When you've been in the army already for a while you'll have accumulated a large number of documents outlining your successes and failures as a soldier.  The army will already have a pretty good idea of what kind of soldier you are.  This means that during your MANY interviews leading up to your selection you'll have to continuously justify why, for example, on your course report from DP1 you only got average on one of your evaluation points when all the rest were above average.  A civilian has the advantage of the army having nothing other than the records provided by the applicant.

So, it's a mixed bag.  I don't regret my time as an NCM, and I know that it's made my courses as an officer a little easier.  I think my troops can identify with me a little more easily as well (although this can put you in a difficult situation at times).  At the same time, if you ultimately want to be an officer then what are you waiting for?  Don't waste your time or the army's money on training you to do a job that you don't really want to do.

When I joined the recruiter pushed me toward becoming an officer, but I was convinced by talking to a bunch of NCMs that I wouldn't have much of a chance of going overseas as one in the reserves.  Turns out, a year later we started the mission in Kandahar and 2 officers from my unit were there.  By the time I went, I could have been done my officer training and gone as an officer anyways.  And it would have been in a position more suited to me personally.  So make your own decision, and be brutally honest with yourself about what you really want.


----------



## MMSS

Ridgeline said:
			
		

> Also looking at the pay scales the ratio between officer and ncm isn't really that big for the first 5 years, after that however it is significant enough for me to transfer.



Based on the pay scales currently posted, Private starts at 2663/mo whereas DEO officer would start at 3644. Approximately 1000/mo or 12000/year doesn't seem insignificant. I am also no expert in the field however I do not believe that you can just choose to become an officer - you would either have to be commissioned from the ranks or VR and reapply.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> A rather ignorant comment.



After looking back, you're right. Apologies.


----------



## George Wallace

Steve031


I would hesitate to apply the Reserve experience to a Reg Force application in this case.  As a Reservist, the officers usually benefit from much better training on their DP (Phase) Crses in Gagetown than the NCMs at Area Trg Centers, until they (NCMs) reach their PLQ.  By that time the officers have gained much more experience.  The same is not true in the Regular Force, where NCMs and officers basically start out on an even plane; with the opportunities to go on courses and deploy being better for NCMs and become more limited to officers as they progress up the leadership ladder.


----------



## MJP

MMSS said:
			
		

> . I am also no expert in the field however I do not believe that you can just choose to become an officer - you would either have to be commissioned from the ranks or VR and reapply.



Then why even comment?  You are completely out to lunch as there are several plans for an NCM with a degree to gain his commission and none of them involve having to VR.  Some of them have already been mentioned in the thread and there is an enormous thread NCO to officer that outlines all the other ones.


----------



## Ridgeline

MMSS said:
			
		

> Based on the pay scales currently posted, Private starts at 2663/mo whereas DEO officer would start at 3644. Approximately 1000/mo or 12000/year doesn't seem insignificant.



Sorry, I meant after the first year they are 3256 ncm and 3952 deo.  700 a month is not a large difference to me.  It is then insignificant


----------



## TangoTwoBravo

Most of my related experience is helping Corporals with the University Training Program Non-Commissioned Member (UTPNCM) plan, but your situation would fit the Special Commissioning Plan (SCP) under CFAO 9-70. This program is for NCMs who have a BA and essentially brings them in as DEO officers. There is no minimum time, but you need your QL3/DP1 training completed and have demonstrated the personal qualities and job performance required for an officer.

I can understand your desire to serve as an NCM first to gain experiene and perspective (I was a  Trooper for a bit in the Reserves), but since you already want to be an officer maybe save yourself some time and simply enroll as a DEO? Having said that, only you know what is best for your situation and it is you that will have to live with your choices. I know many officers who served as Regular Force NCMs (Cpl to Sgt) for a while before commissioning in their late 20s to mid 30s and they do very well. I note, though, that they had joined as NCMs right out of high school so they were fairly young when they started. 

Best of luck regardless!


----------



## Ridgeline

Thanks for the info tango!


----------



## Blackadder1916

Ridgeline said:
			
		

> Sorry, I meant after the first year they are 3256 ncm and 3952 deo.  700 a month is not a large difference to me.  It is then insignificant



Since you claim to be the owner of a well organized and managed business, I'm surprised that you didn't take proper notice of "opportunity costs".  I did a quick appreciation of the difference in remuneration of the two career paths (NCM to officer vice DEO) using the following assumptions:

-  Five years in the ranks (3 as Pte, 2 as Cpl)
-  Four years as a Subaltern before promotion to Capt
-  All amounts as per current pay table without regard for any past or future fluctuations.

After ten years service these are the amounts a soldier would receive:
NCM to officer -  537,493
DEO                 -  661,248
Difference        -  123,755

Besides the significant opportunity cost there would also (perhaps) be lost "windows of opportunity".  Using my assumptions at the end of ten years service an individual who spent five years as an NCM would be (based on a current age of 25 years old) a 35 year old Captain with one year of experience at that rank whereas the DEO would have had 6 years of experience at the same rank level.  The immediate "window of opportunity" (available at that point to the DEO but not the former NCM) that comes to mind is being in the promotion zone for major.  Should the stars align and the sun shine out this individual's *** and promotion to major (in both cases) be attained after completing 6 years as a captain then the difference in salary for the following five years would be 101,132.00 greater for the DEO.

Only you know what expectations (or dreams) you have for a military career.  If that includes (eventually) reaching senior officer rank, then the more years you have in the officer corps the larger the window of opportunity for attaining that rank.


----------



## Ridgeline

Blackadder1916

Being an owner of a business also allows me not to have to worry about the difference in pay ... as I stated before, money is of no real importance to my decision to become an ncm or officer, or my decision to be in the forces...

Thanks for the financial information .. but it of no real importance to me, perhaps someone who does not have financial security as I do would find it valuable.  Also  money is not everything to a lot of people.

Opportunity is diffrent for each person .. you might think that being a ncm is a waste of time, and money, however I do not.  In the long run money is money, you can't take it with you .. and a wise person who invests and makes sound financial decisions, versus someone who doesn't and blows his money, can easily make 100k in those 5 years you pointed out.

I value your comments, however I don't think you grasped the idea I was trying to portray.


----------



## Steve031

It seems like the potential applicant here is thinking about joining the reserves rather than the reg force.  However, I don't think my experience is inapplicable to the regs.  I do know the differences between the reserve and reg training, but having completed all the pre-deployment stuff, a reservist NCM should be equally competent to their reg force counterpart.  The skills which will help you on course are learned throughout any kind of army training, regardless of what it was.  Things like time-management, operating under sleep deprivation etc. are applicable to both reserve and reg courses.

My main point still stands: if you think you want to be an officer eventually, do it right away.  You might get some benefits from being an NCM for a while, but those will be offset by the time you lose to advance your career and the time you'll spend taking courses on stuff you're already quite good at from being an NCM.


----------



## George Wallace

Ridgeline said:
			
		

> I value your comments, however I don't think you grasped the idea I was trying to portray.



I'm sorry that everyone seems to be overlooking your statements that money is not a concern and are for the most part focusing on what wages you may not be getting as an NCM.  I can see that you are looking at taking a period of your life and actually doing the "hands on" and more practical side of soldiering, rather than the 'administrative'.  Yes, as an NCM you will have more hands on of weapons training, driving training, manual labour, etc.; all things that may provide you with practical experience should you decide to later go the officer route.  As an NCM, there are also Leadership Courses, which will also do you good stead if you decide to go officer later.  At the same time, you may decide that you would rather not go officer, but climb the NCM ladder instead.  

Gauge what you read here, and what answers you get to questions you pose to the Recruiters, and go for it.  If you want to be an NCM after all of this, go for it.  The officer world will still be there, should you decide that is what you want next.


----------



## George Wallace

Steve031 said:
			
		

> ........  You might get some benefits from being an NCM for a while, but those will be offset by the time you lose to advance your career and the time you'll spend taking courses on stuff you're already quite good at from being an NCM.



 ???

If he goes officer right away, he will not already be quite good at stuff he did as a NCM; as he would never have been a NCM.


----------



## Ridgeline

Thanks George

I'm a pretty hands on guy, that's also a reason I perfer to go NCM.  I've been building homes for the past ten years, so I don't mind the hard work.  I'll have to see when I'm in where I can do the most good


Cheers


----------



## Steve031

What I said means the benefits of being an NCM will be offset by the loss of career opportunities and the time wasted re-learning stuff you already know how to do because you learned it as an NCM.  If he went officer right away, he would miss out on some benefits but also avoid re-learning this stuff and have more time to pursue his career as an officer.


----------



## George Wallace

Steve031 said:
			
		

> What I said means the benefits of being an NCM will be offset by the loss of career opportunities and the time wasted re-learning stuff you already know how to do because you learned it as an NCM.  If he went officer right away, he would miss out on some benefits but also avoid re-learning this stuff and have more time to pursue his career as an officer.



And perhaps all he wants to do is drive a tank.  Officers don't drive tanks.  Think it is foolish.  I know of a Major who came back from Tour in Afghanistan with CIMIC, who took his Release from his Hamilton Reserve unit to join the Regular Force as a Trooper in the LdSH (RC) just because he wanted to be a tank driver.  That is what he wanted to do.  Everyone has their own "Bucket List".


----------



## Maverick585

Hello everyone,

First post here and I hope I don't screw it up.

I have been reading over this site and some of my questions have been answered, but some of the information is very old/outdated. As we all know, things change around the CF more often then I change my socks.

I am looking for information on UTPNCM. I have read the message (msg), spoke with the Base Personal Selection Officcer and talked to Officers at the office.  I am currently at CFLRS so I have a lot of Officers to pick from.


My questions are:

I would like to know what type of grades you need for the credits the msg requires? I'm averaging about a 70% at RMC, plus I had a PLAR done for my training and received a credit for that.

I wanted to go to RMC for a long time for the "network" and the cadet number. In the last few weeks, that has started to change as I am going to be 30 at least when I enter the program, and really don't want to put up with the BS that comes with cadet life, not that I will be a cadet per say. RMC has one program I am interested in, but I have to write an email explaining why space science would be acceptable for INT O. Whereas Carlton U has a new degree BIT Bachelors of Information Technology which is one of the ideal degrees for INT O.

So the question out of the above paragraph is: Is RMC the right pick? Anyone in Otter want to toss in their two cents on this one  :nod:

Has anyone taken a degree that isn't on the list of ideal/ preferred? How hard was it to get the approval from the trade chief?

Also, as an aside, we might want to create a new forum just for CFR/UTPNCM/CEOTP/SCP for us NCM's. This way there is one place to find this info. 

Thank you for your advice and I look forward to the discussion.

Cheers,

Drew


----------



## niceasdrhuxtable

I don't think there's a minimum grade cut-off (besides making sure that you passed) but it's just another facet of comparison for you against all the other people applying for the program. I had a 79% average from the University of Waterloo when I applied which seems to have been good enough for my intake year.

I don't really know about preferred degrees and avoiding RMC, so I can't be much help there. From my understanding, RMC gets first pick of all the ROTP/UTPNCM enrollees and whomever they don't pick up goes to their civilian university instead. Hopefully someone else can shed some light on that for you.


----------



## ModlrMike

My understanding is the UTPNCM students at RMC are spared much of the BS. Of course I could be wrong. Several friends have gone UTPNCM at RMC and said the experience wasn't what they expected vis-a-vis 3-4 years of recruit school.


----------



## Occam

Bachelor of Information Technology is an ideal program for INT O?


----------



## MP 811

I was just looking at a list of preferred undergraduate degree's for Int O.  I know Maverick and I are interested in this info.  They are as follows;

Economics
Geography
History
Imagery Science
Information Technology
International Studies
Journalism
Military and Strategic Studies
Political Studies.

Maverick, I highlighted the imagery science degree as I think you can argue that the degree your pursuing is very similar in nature.  Ask the BPSO to check into that for you.  I'm sure that it will be acceptable.

Occam, as above, it is indeed listed as an ideal program.

RMC does indeed have first pic, but you can actually opt to go to a civy university instead.  I know someone here who when asked what her preferences for university were, absolutely refused to go to RMC.  She didn't get any grief over that and they allowed her to stay here to finish her degree.


----------



## vonGarvin

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> My understanding is the UTPNCM students at RMC are spared much of the BS. Of course I could be wrong. Several friends have gone UTPNCM at RMC and said the experience wasn't what they expected vis-a-vis 3-4 years of recruit school.


My understanding is similar, but dated.  I applied for UTPNCM in 1995 and was accepted, but I attended Civvy U.  Of my fellow "UTs" who went to RMC, all were not considered "cadets" and their diploma was from the "Canadian Military University" (or something like that), but one went in as a cadet, and received the "RMC" diploma.  As far as I recall from then, it was voluntary.

For what it's worth, I am an infantry officer, and my degree was honors German Language and Literature/Philosophy.  I can't recall if either were on "the list", but I also don't recall it being that much of a problem.

Again, my personal experience is rather dated, for what it's worth.


----------



## captloadie

MP 811 said:
			
		

> RMC does indeed have first pic, but you can actually opt to go to a civy university instead.  I know someone here who when asked what her preferences for university were, absolutely refused to go to RMC.  She didn't get any grief over that and they allowed her to stay here to finish her degree.


This does make sense for UTs, if it saves posting a member with a family away from the area and school they are currently in. I would hazard a guess though that if someone said they wanted to be _*moved*_ to attend a civilian university rather than attend RMC, the story would be different.


----------



## Maverick585

Thank you everyone for your input.

We will see how everything plays out.

Cheers,

Drew


----------



## PanaEng

I went to RMC as a UTPNCM in 1992. Preferred degree was Civil Eng but I took Comp Eng - no big deal but I probably would make a lousy BCE officer, ok as a thumperhead 
I would still go to RMC for the networking unless you have other stronger reasons not to go. Life in Otter Sqn was pretty good and you could participate with the cadets as little as possible (classes, parades) or as much as the would let you (joining their Sqn, doing the recruit obst course, intramural/varsity teams, etc.) I was on the rifle team and tried for the soccer but sucked more than others  ;D

Academically it is pretty good but the workload is a bit heavier  than a civ U counterpart - but I think well worth the effort.

cheers,
Frank


----------



## dangles

Hey all, I will be graduating from University in 2 years and I will be applying for inf soldier. I realize that this is a NCM position, however it is what I want I have always wanted to do so I will stick with it.

 But, I was wondering, if I wanted to become a pilot, or an intelligence officer, or basically a different type of officer than an infantry officer, would it be likely that I would be offered a position through SCP assuming I met all requirements and the trade was open? Or do they like to advance those in a position similar to their NCM trade? [Int op -> Int officer, Inf soldier -> Inf officer]

I ask this because I am wondering whether a VR after my inf soldier VIE was up and then reapplying for an officer position in my chosen trade is a better decision than attempting to go through the SCP [which I realize is quite hard to be chosen for].

Thanks for any advice.
[And I realize this is in the distant future, I just want to know some things first to weigh my options...and I did conduct a search!].


----------



## George Wallace

dangles said:
			
		

> Hey all, I will be graduating from University in 2 years and I will be applying for inf soldier. I realize that this is a NCM position, however it is what I want I have always wanted to do so I will stick with it.
> 
> But, I was wondering, if I wanted to become a pilot, or an intelligence officer, or basically a different type of officer than an infantry officer, would it be likely that I would be offered a position through SCP assuming I met all requirements and the trade was open? Or do they like to advance those in a position similar to their NCM trade? [Int op -> Int officer, Inf soldier -> Inf officer]
> 
> I ask this because I am wondering whether a VR after my inf soldier VIE was up and then reapplying for an officer position in my chosen trade is a better decision than attempting to go through the SCP [which I realize is quite hard to be chosen for].
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> [And I realize this is in the distant future, I just want to know some things first to weigh my options...and I did conduct a search!].



Welcome to army.ca

Your questions have been asked and answered several dozen times before.  If you had done a SEARCH, you would have several topics covering these very questions.  If you continue to ask questions that have been asked and answered the novelty of your membership will have worn off and your patronage of the site will become quite annoying to the membership.  Things tend to roll downhill very quickly after that, often with the membership have a great deal of fun at your expense.

Yes, you can go from NCM to officer in another Trade.  Yes, you can be a Reservist and do a CT and OT to another Trade, either as an NCM to officer, or officer to officer.  Is it beneficial to remain within one Trade when doing the CT as a Reservist from NCM to officer, or as a Reg NCM to Reg officer under one of the various programs?  Yes it could be, depending on your skills.

Is it wise to RELEASE and do any of the above.   NO.  It removes you completely from the system and you have to start from zero along with all the others who are awaiting Apr 1 to see if any opportunities open up.  Only if you are a "skilled" applicant for whatever you are applying for would you have any advantage over the hundreds/thousands of other prospects.


----------



## Pusser

I know of at least one officer who was a CPO2 in a hard sea trade who commissioned as a Log officer under SCP - a complete career shift.  So yes, it is possible to become an officer through SCP in a completely different field.  The benefit of doing it this way was no loss of benefits and being commissioned as a Lt(N) vice an A/SLt.


----------



## kawa11

Hope I'm in the right forum with this one.

What happens if a member (say a Corporal or Sergeant whose awaiting promotion) completes a university program and applies to become an officer?

Would they take a step down in pay to take a step forward in rank & responsibility?



Here's the logic behind the question:
Corporal / Standard / 4 = 4733
Sergeant / Standard / 4 = 5351
2nd Lieutenant / CFR / Basic = 4708


ref: http://www.forces.ca/en/page/payscales-131


----------



## PuckChaser

You have vested rights to your pay and if you CFR/UTPNCM you will maintain your current pay level until the officer pay scale surpasses the NCM one.


----------



## kawa11

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You have vested rights to your pay and if you CFR/UTPNCM you will maintain your current pay level until the officer pay scale surpasses the NCM one.


I assumed it would follow along the lines of the labour code (ie. can not have you wages reduced unless the Gov't files the changes) but wasn't 100%.

I guess this means the extra work pursuing a degree won't bite me in the ***.


----------



## George Wallace

You could use the SEARCH function now that you know what "Vested Rights" are and find some good answers to your question.

Here is one:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/43870/post-381908.html#msg381908


----------



## vonGarvin

As a former NCO who was accepted in the UTPNCM programme many years ago, I can speak with a bit of authority on this one.

Whilst at the rank of Officer Cadet, I received the same pay I would have received, including incentive and other pay raises, had I remained a MCpl.  Upon receiving my commission, my salary was that same rate of pay (eg: MCpl Incentive 4) plus xxx dollars per month.  Every year I remained a Lt (3 to be exact), I received an incentive pay raise of xxx dollars per month.  If at any time the rate of pay of MCpl Incentive 4 increased, I too received that increase.

Upon promotion to captain, MCpl Incentive 4 plus 3 * (xxx) dollars per month was less than Capt Incentive 0, so I started receiving Capt Incentive 0.

Had my pay as a Lt been more than Capt Incentive 0, then my rate of pay would have been the next higher level.


----------



## Journeyman

kawa11 said:
			
		

> I guess this means the extra work pursuing a degree won't bite me ....


Work towards a degree will help make you a better informed individual (if only for exposing you to differing perspectives), and is considered when writing PERs, whether officer or NCM, regardless of your longer-term goals.



Mind you, I occasionally catch myself saying "there are perhaps other interpretations of the data," when I still _mean_ "bu11shit."


----------



## observor 69

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Work towards a degree will help make you a better informed individual (if only for exposing you to differing perspectives), and is considered when writing PERs, whether officer or NCM, regardless of your longer-term goals.




Go Queen's.....    >


----------



## justmyalias

I've always wondered., how does it work then?

You are an Officer Cadet., but get your former Reserve pay...on your pay statement., does it show that you are getting OCDT pay (but is actually your former NCM rank pay?)

Of course Res MCpl to Reg MCpl., would be the same., as an example., not only from NCM -> Officer.

Isn't this a little confusing, or do they note that this is a unique circumstance for Pay & Rank not coinciding with the norm?


----------



## Disenchantedsailor

Long and short of it is get into CBI 209. It deals with pay and for officers below the rank of Capt it really depends on your Commisioning path.  For example there are 5 Pay catagories for OCdt\2Lt\Lt so that when you do CFR\UTPNCM\CEOTP you maintain your "vested right to pay" in my case I was a LS\4 and upon comisioning went to 2Lt Pay Cat C IPC 3 or 4 I can't remember now, long and short I got a bit of a raise.


----------



## agc

204 is pay.  209 is transportation and travelling expenses.


----------



## Muttenthaler

justmyalias said:
			
		

> I've always wondered., how does it work then?
> 
> You are an Officer Cadet., but get your former Reserve pay...on your pay statement., does it show that you are getting OCDT pay (but is actually your former NCM rank pay?)
> 
> Of course Res MCpl to Reg MCpl., would be the same., as an example., not only from NCM -> Officer.
> 
> Isn't this a little confusing, or do they note that this is a unique circumstance for Pay & Rank not coinciding with the norm?



Your pay will show up as your current rate of pay. Don't worry, if you have competant clerks, then they will input this correctly and you won'tr even notice, unless you're paying attention (which you shoudl be doing, it's your pay). If you're going Reg F, then you're going to be getting your last rank from the reserves, but at the Reg F rate of pay, and you will receive that rate until your officer rank and IPC cathces up and surpasses your current rate of pay.

There are formulas in the CBI that clerks must follow in order to determine your rate of pay. You can look for yourself, or ask your CClk. they're based on your previous service, total time in, etc..

If you need to know anything else just PM or e-mail me.


----------



## armybrat85

Good morning!

Firstly, this is my first post on this forum. I'm not sure if the topic is in the right section however so forgive me if it is misplaced. Here is the story:
-currently employed as Leading Seaman with 180+ days class B at Naval Reserve Headquarters
-have no university degree however i'm accepted at Laval U and I do some evening classes
-applied for transfer as Armored Officer by emailing +D MIL a month ago and they confirmed reception
-would like to do UTPNCM at RMC in History/Strategic studies

I am wondering, how does it work for UTPNCM? Will they contact me and say "OK here is how you can do it."? Or should I write back and inform them of what I would like to do?

Thank you and have a nice day.


----------



## aesop081

You will have to see a personel selection officer......That email will do nothing for you.


----------



## MJP

Lots of info on UTPNCM here on the boards.  Do a google search with the parameters site:army.ca UTPNCM and you will get some good threads.

Quickly though you apply for UTPNCM and if you have a strong enough application are then accepted.  I would suggest reading CFAO 9-13 for a better understanding of the programme.


----------



## armybrat85

Wow! Thanks for the fast reply and info. I will contact a BPSO and check out this forum in more detail. I think I already read the CFAO 9-13 but will consult again just to make sure.

Thanks again!


----------



## Blackadder1916

armybrat85 said:
			
		

> -currently employed as Leading Seaman with 180+ days class B at Naval Reserve Headquarters
> 
> I am wondering, how does it work for UTPNCM? Will they contact me and say "OK here is how you can do it."? Or should I write back and inform them of what I would like to do?



Perhaps you should read the applicable orders and regulations.

CFAO 9-13  University Training Plan -- Non-Commissioned Members (UTPNCM)
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/009-13-eng.asp

Some pertinent extracts.


> 3. UTPNCM is limited to members of the Regular Force who are not officers. . . . . .





> APPLICATION
> 11. Announcement of the annual competition will be promulgated by message.  . . . . .



The message for the 2012 UTPNCM competition can be found here.
http://www.cfsuo-usfco.forces.gc.ca/adm/pdp-pps/doc/gen-140-2011-eng.asp


----------



## aesop081

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Some pertinent extracts.



He emailed D Mil so he must be trying for a CT at the same time.


----------



## Blackadder1916

Unless things have changed (and it is quite possible they have since I retired), if he's applied for CT to Reg Force and is seeking a concurrent subsidized university education plan then it is "ROTP" not "UTPNCM" that he should be researching.


----------



## aesop081

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> if he's applied for CT to Reg Force and is seeking a concurrent subsidized university education plan then it is "ROTP" not "UTPNCM" that he should be researching.



Not the way i read it.


----------



## Wookilar

There are always a few people that CT and Commission at the same time. At RMC, the "more experienced" of these former Reservists usually (but not always) reside with the Otter Sqn gang, but are, in fact, ROTP not UTPNCM.

Many "outsiders" (even some Otter's) think that these people are UT's, but they are not. As mentioned above, there is no mechanism to go UT if you are PRes, only Reg Force. It is not widely talked about due to the fear that other former PRes might get their knickers in a knot over going through the full ROTP while these "experienced" members get the "good life" with the Otters. Note that the minimum rank of the people I am aware of was Sgt, most were WO.

While I was at RMC, there were at least 6 in this boat. I know because they were in my Flight when I was doing all the admin and had to deal with the difficulties of administering for a different program (which includes certain degree requirements for ROTP) than we were built for.

Wook


----------



## bobot

I am waiting for the UTPNCM 2012/2013 results to come out. I have read many threads on previous years and have found absolutely nothing for this year. I am surprised as by this time last year, many were anxiously awaiting and writing on these threads. I have heard that the board is sitting late this year and that results should be out in the next few weeks. Has another out there heard anything? Or even any ROTP offers out? I heard they all go out at roughly the same time. Hoping to find someone out there in the same boat as me. Thanks!


----------



## MKos

Many of us in the ROTP 2012-13 thread are still waiting for offers to start shipping out. They are a little late this year, and most of us merit listed are really antsy as usual, GOOD LUCK to you and sit tight, If you are done everything you can for your application it's out of your hands, again, GOOD LUCK!


----------



## luke_l

Last year it was almost may when they started coming out...  I didnt get mine until mid-may


----------



## matt1994

I would think offers would come out during the same time as ROTP offers, and hopefully it is soon!


----------



## Jay79

I am in the same boat as the OP. Applied for UTPNCM this year and havent heard or seen anything since.

Anyone have any news on this? Has anyone received an offer or seen any messages out yet? 

I had sort of started to resign myself to applying again next year, but perhaps the offers are just not out yet...

I would appreciate any updates if someone hears anything.  It would certainly be nice to at least know if I still have a chance or not!

Ill post here if I hear anything.

Cheers


----------



## Joesph_B

There was an announcement today that the UTPNCM program through RMC will no longer be available.   I am certain they will still hold this at Civilian universities (a preferred alternative for most I am sure), but I would expect the numbers to be greatly reduced.  I think they had less than 20 enrolled last year.


----------



## matt1994

I wonder whats going to come out of all the things happening to RMC?


----------



## MKos

Joesph_B said:
			
		

> There was an announcement today that the UTPNCM program through RMC will no longer be available.   I am certain they will still hold this at Civilian universities (a preferred alternative for most I am sure), but I would expect the numbers to be greatly reduced.  I think they had less than 20 enrolled last year.




Like why bother having only 20....I know it's competitive but.


----------



## bobot

Joesph_B said:
			
		

> There was an announcement today that the UTPNCM program through RMC will no longer be available.   I am certain they will still hold this at Civilian universities (a preferred alternative for most I am sure), but I would expect the numbers to be greatly reduced.  I think they had less than 20 enrolled last year.



Where was this announced? Is there anywhere I can look to find it?

I have only hear that the board sat late this year and results should be here soon. The cuts are very discouraging  

Please post, if anyone hears anything!


----------



## matt1994

Hopefully the new federal budget doesn't delay it any further. That's what I think is holding it up.


----------



## Wookilar

The usual annual intake for UT's is about 100 +/- a dozen or so. That is all dependant on ISS numbers.

RMC Otter Sqn usual takes 20-25 a year.

the messages are late, from what I hear, simply due to the budget fallout.

I am looking for an official source as well on the status of the UT program at RMC. We do not cost RMC/CDA a lot of money at RMC, but the savings on UT's attending local uni's where they are already posted would be huge. Moving 25 families to Kingston is not cheap, let alone the other 75 families to Halifax and Victoria and everywhere in between.

If this is done for a cost savings, that is the one which makes most sense.

Wook


----------



## bobot

I just called the local BPSO office and they said nothing is expected to come out until next week or the week after. It will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## EO TECH

Well i'm here at Otter now and yes it's official Otter is NOT taking any more people. We were told this morning.

All future UT's will go to civy u. Reason behind it is the cost with posting and such. also the added "extra" features that RMC brings us. (guess i applied one year to early)

Program is being cut down alot for the next few years so don't expect many offers this year.

Otter's last official class will be at graduation of 2015 (mine). I got my offer last year on May 07. Very late.

any more ?, let me know.


----------



## MeanJean

I have applied for UTP this year.  I emailed D Mil C inquiring about the messages two weeks ago and they said the messages will be coming out this week.  They said they were very busy with boards for other programs.  I also asked if I had a pending message, no replies on that one.


----------



## pudd13

The source was the Commandant of RMC.


----------



## bobot

Looks like offers for ROTP are trickling out, does that mean UTPNCM is too? Has anyone heard any updates?


----------



## Jay79

I havent heard anything yet. 

It appears from what the guys in Otter Sqn have said that the RMC part of the program has basically been shut down so I guess the ROTP offers have little to do with the status of the UTP offers? 

I wonder how many fewer positions there are now as a result of the cuts? A poster earlier indicatd maybe upwards of 25% or so? That would be unfortunate. 

Although on some level I would think that if the budget for ROTP has been finalized and offers are coming out now, then the same could be said for UTP...

Anyone else hear anything ref UTPNCM? Did those who have received offers in the past receive an email directly or strictly through their chain of command?


----------



## MeanJean

While we are waiting for the messages or emails to come out, what officer occupation and which universities did you guys apply for?

Being in the Navy, I wanted to stay in my element so I picked Naval Combat Systems Engineer with Marine Systems as my second choice. Saint Mary's University was my preference with Computer and Electrical Engineering as my degree.  I thought NCSE was a good idea as I have a solid back ground in electronics and it is a hot trade according to the recruiting website.

I email a friend who accepted his offer for UTP 2011, he said he found out through MCOIN Message traffic on the MARLANT intranet site.  I am sure it will be different for other units but I can check the archives for MARLANT and see the selection offers and non-selection messages that from the previous competition.  His offer came in mid-May and there were 17 non-selections starting mid-June.  There were also 17 Selection offers and the first one came out on the first of April.


----------



## matthew1786

bobot said:
			
		

> Looks like offers for ROTP are trickling out, does that mean UTPNCM is too? Has anyone heard any updates?



Source?


----------



## fhg1893

The Commandant held a town-hall a week or two ago.  The UTPNCM program will continue, but UTPNCMs will no longer be going to RMC.  There's a ppt. presentation on the RMC intranet, the same presentation as was given by the commandant.  I don't know how much more official you can get.


----------



## Journeyman

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> I don't know how much more official you can get.


How many civies in this recruiting thread do you believe have access to, and the knowledge of where to look on, the RMC intranet?


----------



## fhg1893

Journeyman said:
			
		

> How many civies in this recruiting thread do you believe have access to, and the knowledge of where to look on, the RMC intranet?



Civies for UTPNCM?  I didn't think that was an option...

To answer the questions, at least 1 and at least 1.  I'm a civie, I have access to the RMC intranet, and I know where to look.  I'll see if I can't post the relevant slide tomorrow...


----------



## Journeyman

:facepalm:   You are correct. 

Non-UTPNCM recruiting threads are overwhelmingly repetitive civie questions, which made for a poor assumption on my part.

Yet _another_ reason why I avoid Recruiting threads.


----------



## Jay79

MeanJean said:
			
		

> While we are waiting for the messages or emails to come out, what officer occupation and which universities did you guys apply for?


I applied for Signals Officer. Hoping to complete my degree in Computer Science or Physics. I was initially fine with either Civy U or RMC but it looks as though RMC isnt an option anymore. Oh well if an offer comes through Civy U would be fantastic!

So any message traffic showing up on the MCOIN? I dont think anything similar exists in the army Brigades, at least nothing I have come across. 

I know that there was a delay due to the offers being approved against the final reduced budget, but I have no idea weather or not as of this minute any offers have been sent. 

Anyone hear anything?


----------



## MeanJean

Still nothing out yet on MCOIN or DocBase.  I have been checking too many times each day.   

I applied with a Civy U as my first choice but I would have taken RMC if they offered it to me.  It is a relief that I do not have to worry about the possibility of moving to Kingston and having to get my house ready to sell.

Good luck everyone!


----------



## captloadie

As part of the UTPNCM application process, did you have to be accepted to a civilian university to apply, even if your first choice was RMC? If an individual was fairly high on the selection list, but only put RMC as their choice or selected a program like Military Studies, are they going to be given time to apply to a civilian university, or just skipped over?


----------



## MJP

captloadie said:
			
		

> As part of the UTPNCM application process, did you have to be accepted to a civilian university to apply, even if your first choice was RMC? If an individual was fairly high on the selection list, but only put RMC as their choice or selected a program like Military Studies, are they going to be given time to apply to a civilian university, or just skipped over?



I can only speak on the one case that I know of where the memeber was selected for UTP but not RMC.  In their case they were given an oppurtunity to apply for a civvy u.


----------



## Chernoble

I applied for the UTPNCM last year and am waiting as well.  I am looking for PSEL but it's a stretch as I hear there are 20 applicants and only one spot for UTPNCM this year.

I am saddened to hear about the possibility of RMC not taking any more UTPNCM's.  My wife is an RMC graduate and she spoke very highly of many of the members of Otter Squadron and their positive influence on the school environment and the young cadets.

This also raises some interesting questions in regards to how much money this will save in the long run...  If I am posted to somewhere like Cold Lake, Greenwood or Comox, are they going to pay for a full move to a close University?  Will it really save much more money than bringing a few people to Kingston each year?

Good luck to all the applicants in all programs!  I am assuming I will have to reapply but hoping for a spot!


----------



## MJP

Chernoble said:
			
		

> If I am posted to somewhere like Cold Lake, Greenwood or Comox, are they going to pay for a full move to a close University?  Will it really save much more money than bringing a few people to Kingston each year?



They will do a cost move for you to the university, unless you are doing your degree through a distance education center like Athabasca U.   Your acceptance message will dictate what University and program you will attend chosen from the list the applicant sent in.  Many folks don't require this as they are already attending a local university and just continue their studies there.


----------



## Wookilar

captloadie said:
			
		

> As part of the UTPNCM application process, did you have to be accepted to a civilian university to apply, even if your first choice was RMC? If an individual was fairly high on the selection list, but only put RMC as their choice or selected a program like Military Studies, are they going to be given time to apply to a civilian university, or just skipped over?



The year I applied ('04, so a bit dated) I had to be accepted by 2 civilian universities, regardless if I wanted to go to RMC (I did lol silly me). I know some people only put down RMC and were told to get accepted to at least 1 university before their application would be processed.


Chernoble, it's not a possibility that UT's will no longer be going to RMC, it is done. The current class graduates in 2015 and their will be no more Otter Sqn at RMC. Of course next budget year might change all that, but with everything that seems to be happening at CDA and RMC, it will take a long time before this particular pendulum swings the other way.

Wook


----------



## Rsnow

Thanks for posting the names, made my day!!!! ;D


----------



## Rsnow

Rsnow said:
			
		

> Thanks for posting the names, made my day!!!! ;D


Also, Best of luck to every one that applied!


----------



## MeanJean

What type of officer did you apply for and which university?


----------



## Chernoble

Wookilar said:
			
		

> Chernoble, it's not a possibility that UT's will no longer be going to RMC, it is done. The current class graduates in 2015 and their will be no more Otter Sqn at RMC. Of course next budget year might change all that, but with everything that seems to be happening at CDA and RMC, it will take a long time before this particular pendulum swings the other way.
> 
> Wook



I just got off the phone with Admissions at RMC and it seems that Otter Squadron being disbanded is somewhat untrue.  Basically, UTPNCM's students that come to RMC will now be the exeption and not the rule.  There will still be UTPNCM's at RMC but instead of taking 25 or so a year, it will be more like 5-10 a year.  Most individuals accepted for the program will be sent to a civilian University unless RMC is the better option or their degree program is only offered at RMC.


----------



## MeanJean

Jay79 said:
			
		

> Just curious, where are you getting these names from? You said they are not being published on the MCOIN this year?



I am posted to the Naval Engineering School in MARLANT.  On the MARLANT website there is link to a site/service called DocBase that is part of the intranet site. It allows intranet users to search DocBase for messages.  Unless you have an account, you can only see the title of the message and some other particulars, such as format (ie: outlook/email) and originator.  I cannot see the details of the UTPNCM Selection but I can see that it is a selection and who it is for.  It only accesses messages for MARLANT and not MARPAC or other bases or regions.

One thing that I have noticed is that it has been Weapon Engineer Technicians who have gotten messages.  

Here is an example (not sure how much of it I can publish on the forum)

2012 UTPNCM SELECTION -999 MS BLOGGINS IR 00366 W ENG-FPSO/STAD

Doc# 34XXXXX 
Title 2012 UTPNCM SELECTION -999 MS BLOGGINS IR 00366 W ENG-FPSO/STAD
Typist LACKY.IR
Author XXXXXXX
Type EMAIL 
Application MS OUTLOOK 
Date 26-APR-12 
Org MARLANT 
Language ENG 
Classification PA 
RM File Part XXXX XXXXX

I have been checking the MCOIN site and these messages have not surfaced their.  The TYPE and APPLICATION leads me to believe that these messages won't make the published MCOIN site, I could be wrong.


----------



## Rsnow

MeanJean said:
			
		

> What type of officer did you apply for and which university?



Applied to go CSEO as my first choice and to take Engineering at DAL. I got the DAL part but am going Air Force as an AERE now..which is fine by me!!


----------



## Good2Golf

MeanJean, stop posting publically information on personnel applications and/or approvals unless you have been specifically approved to do so by your CoC.  In your own post you state:


> It allows *intranet* users to search DocBase for messages


  This is correct, and should be heeded -- information on the intranet/DWAN is not to be released unless authorized.  In cases where information is sent out to both the intranet AND internet, such information can be published, but the reference on *Milnet.ca * should be the internet reference.


Others, if you applied under the UTPNCM program and are interested in knowing your application status, then send a PM to MeanJean, or contact your CFRC point of contact to confirm.

*
Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## Jay79

So have any of the members who found their messages actually received their offer yet through their chain of command? Im wondering how long it usually takes from the point the message is published to when you actually receive it?

I searched around the DIN for a bit and was able to find plenty of similar message centres for other bases / wings but nothing for the army brigades. Maybe they just dont publish them or if they do I was unable to find anything :

I would assume that the if the messages are starting to come out on the east coast that the messages for the rest of the country wouldnt be to far behind..

Has anyone not on the east coast heard anything regarding offers for utpncm?


----------



## MeanJean

My apologies for posting the names.  I wasn't using my head.  Lesson learned.  

On another note, nine messages have been sent out to MARLANT and nothing new since the end of April.  For those of you who have applied to a competitive degree, such as engineering, you may want to check with the institution and see if you can register for courses and drop them if you do not get a selection notice.

I didn't register until I got my message and one of the classes was filled.  I have to take it next semester but it all works out.  It would be a really s*$ty deal if you get selected to go but you cannot start your degree due to filled classes.

I emailed D Mil C early last week and the MCpl got back to me Friday stating that the messages have started to come out.

Good Luck!


----------



## Jay79

Thats a good point meanjean. I got my offer earlier this week but i havent registered for any courses yet. how does the process work? Do you just pay for the courses up front and then get reimburses? Any previous utp's have some insight?

Thanks!


----------



## MJP

Jay79 said:
			
		

> Thats a good point meanjean. I got my offer earlier this week but i havent registered for any courses yet. how does the process work? Do you just pay for the courses up front and then get reimburses? Any previous utp's have some insight?
> 
> Thanks!



There will be very few people affected in the manner laid out by MeanJean as every institution is different in their registration requirements and timings.  

As for paying for courses there are several options;

1- member registers and pays for it right away.  Mbr then claims it later through their ULO,

2- Member can request an advance for their tutition and then pay for their courses that way,

3- Mbr can do a mixture of 1 & 2.  IE: paying for part of their tuition and claiming it, while requesting an advance for the rest.

It doesn't really matter how you pay it as it is (for the most part) all claimable and it will be covered.  I suggest getting an advance and then then paying for courses.  Most institutions do not require payment at the time of registration, but rather have a deadline to pay sometime in the first semester.  This only makes sense as registration is before or during the summer months when many students are working to save up the money for school anyway.


----------



## Melbatoast

Yeah and I really doubt registration for Fall is open in too many locations (if any).  Final exams just finished.  My school hasn't even published the Fall academic calendar.

I would guess you are assigned a registration date by your school, before which you can't register anyway.  That's how mine works and it's pretty normal.


----------



## Griffon

Are there any Plt applicants that have received an offer yet?


----------



## Forum_Newbie

RMC is still accepting UTPNCM, I have an offer to attend.  This maybe because I am living in Kingston, so it will not cost the military anything to move me.  My civilian university would have been a cost move out to Ottawa.  

It's a win win situation, my wife and I  don't have to move and the taxpayers keep some of their money.


----------



## MeanJean

Forum_Newbie said:
			
		

> RMC is still accepting UTPNCM, I have an offer to attend.



Congratulations!  

It is great knowing that you don't have to move.


----------



## Ocean H

bobot said:
			
		

> Where was this announced? Is there anywhere I can look to find it?
> 
> I have only hear that the board sat late this year and results should be here soon. The cuts are very discouraging
> 
> Please post, if anyone hears anything!



UTPMNCM is now discontinued because of the Conservative's budget cuts:

http://everitas.rmcclub.ca/?p=74849

RMCC's Blog.


----------



## aesop081

Ocean H said:
			
		

> UTPMNCM is now discontinued because of the Conservative's budget cuts:



At RMC only.

UTPNCM will continue at civilian universities.


----------



## MJP

Ocean H said:
			
		

> UTPMNCM is now discontinued because of the Conservative's budget cuts:
> 
> http://everitas.rmcclub.ca/?p=74849
> 
> RMCC's Blog.



Ummm rigggghtt.... It is like CA said not some government Conservative conspiracy.


----------



## MasterInstructor

I have a quection regarding UTPNCM,

I know that you do your degree at a civilian university, 

Do you get to choose the university? 

Can it be a college that gives bachelor degrees?

I am already doing courses through Thompson River University distance education and enrolled in a program, can i continue distance education?

Thanks


----------



## Wookilar

You get your degree from any degree-granting institution. Some colleges should fit the bill. You would have to check with your BPSO to see if yours does.

As for doing full-time distance learning; I have never heard of it.

I do know a few CEOTP types that we doing full-time distance learning (they were civilian commercial pilots). 

CFAO 9-13 has the details you want. I don't have it in front of me, but I am pretty sure it says you must "attend" a university, not just "be enrolled" in one.

Make an appt with your BPSO, seriously. Things are changing so much, they should have the best uptodate info.

If you have any specific questions, send me a pm.

Wook


----------



## MJP

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> I have a quection regarding UTPNCM,
> 
> I know that you do your degree at a civilian university,
> 
> Do you get to choose the university?
> 
> Can it be a college that gives bachelor degrees?
> 
> I am already doing courses through Thompson River University distance education and enrolled in a program, can i continue distance education?
> 
> Thanks



Distance Education is fine; as is any institution that is sanctioned to give Bachelor degrees.


----------



## Ocean H

MJP said:
			
		

> Ummm rigggghtt.... It is like CA said not some government Conservative conspiracy.



What? When did I mentioned it's a Conservative conspiracy? I mentioned it's due to the Conservative's budget cuts and provided an *official source link* and *jwtg* and *MJP* ("get your facts straight") say I'm misleading?! Wow, freaking unbelievable.


----------



## aesop081

Ocean H said:
			
		

> Wow, freaking unbelievable.



What you posted (3 times in fact) was indeed misleading.



			
				Ocean H said:
			
		

> UTPMNCM is now discontinued because of the Conservative's budget cuts:



FACT: UTPNCM is not being discontinued, just that it will no longer be offered through RMC, but civilian universities only.


----------



## Ocean H

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> What you posted (3 times in fact) was indeed misleading.
> 
> FACT: UTPNCM is not being discontinued, just that it will no longer be offered through RMC, but civilian universities only.



3 times misleading? As *Forum_Newbie* mentioned which is different from what you mentioned. As far as I see, I'm the only one that posted an *official source link* therefore the only credible information mentioning as I quote from the 14th line of the *official source link*:



> _*One shocker!*_ UTPMNCM commonly referred to as UTs will also be discontinued. There will be no I Year class arriving in September. Those already at the college will be able to finish out their time until they graduate.
> 
> We do not have any details concerning Royal Military College Saint-Jean, however, it is expected that the message is similar.
> 
> We were hoping to receive a press release with the official word concerning both college but it was still not available at press time. Stay tuned.



I hope I don't bump into any of you when I'll graduate. The lack of logic is astounding.


----------



## aesop081

Ocean H said:
			
		

> As far as I see, I'm the only one



http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/105703/post-1139260.html#msg1139260

Now I understand. You are an ROTP applicant and know everything about the military. I'm sorry i doubted you.

Good luck.


----------



## Ocean H

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/105703/post-1139260.html#msg1139260
> 
> Now I understand. You are an ROTP applicant and know everything about the military. I'm sorry i doubted you.
> 
> Good luck.



Now I understand. You're a Warrant Officer (Enlisted ranks, not a commissioned officer). You mentioned "FACT: UTPNCM is not being discontinued, just that it will no longer be offered through RMC, but civilian universities only". Do you have any proof to back your *fact*?


----------



## aesop081

Ocean H said:
			
		

> (Enlisted ranks, not a commissioned officer).



Thank you. I didn't know that.


----------



## jwtg

Ocean H said:
			
		

> 3 times misleading? As *Forum_Newbie* mentioned which is different from what you mentioned. As far as I see, I'm the only one that posted an *official source link* therefore the only credible information mentioning as I quote from the 14th line of the *official source link*:
> 
> I hope I don't bump into any of you when I'll graduate. The lack of logic is astounding.


1) Your info is misleading and incorrect.  E-veritas is the RMC Club Foundation newsletter- in other words, the online newsletter for the Alumni association of RMC. That is your *official* source- an alumni newsletter.

2) I don't think you actually understand what being a Warrant Officer means; it means he has a helluva a lot more experience than you and you should probably listen twice as much as you (figuratively) speak.

3) I have an official source of information: The RMC Commandant who briefed RMC that UTPNCM is discontinued at RMC (sort of- some Kingston applicants will still join Otter SQN and study under the UTPNCM at RMC because there is no cost to move them to Kingston- they're already here) and that future UTPNCMs will study at Civi schools.

4) Your _official source_ clearly made an error when they failed to clarify that UTPNCM will continue at Civi schools- maybe because, as the RMC Alumni group, their primary concern is RMC.

5) Check out the UTPNCM thread and you'll see that several people have received UTPNCM offers, which suggests to me that the UTPNCM program is continuing to exist.

Long story short: Your statement that the UTPNCM program is discontinued is in fact misleading.


----------



## Griffon

For anyone else who is waiting, I received a UT offer today for Plt.  When I spoke to s mbr at D Mil C a couple weeks ago they told me that Plt offers were delayed as they didn't have all results from CFASC yet, so maybe there's two more for Plt that will be coming out in the next day or so.

Good luck!


----------



## Jay79

I accepted my offer earlier this month. All the paperwork has been sent back to Ottawa indicating that I have accepted. 

For former UTPs....How long after accepting an offer did you receive an actual posting message? Im wondering when I will actually head over to the training cell and fall under their command rather than my previous unit..

Any info or experience is appreciated!


----------



## MeanJean

Jay79 said:
			
		

> For former UTPs....How long after accepting an offer did you receive an actual posting message? Im wondering when I will actually head over to the training cell and fall under their command rather than my previous unit..
> 
> Any info or experience is appreciated!



I relayed your questions to a fellow sailor who just finished his first year at a civy U as a UT.  I wanted to know the answers too.  He got his offer in April of last year and his posting message arrived a month later and he was posted at the end of June.   He also had to use all but 5 of his annual days.  His recommendation was to find your own employment for the summer or the ULO would do it for you. 

Hope this helps!


----------



## Wookilar

I received my offer on 1 Apr (no kidding lol, took the ET a bit to convince me it was real  ;D) and my posting message to the BTL came back for 29 Apr.


----------



## luke_l

So to clear things up on the RMC/UTPNCM thing... the Commandant briefed the college a month or so ago, stating that Otter sqn (UT's at RMC) would cease to exist after the final year of students that are there (2015).  Afterwards. the UT Association of RMC fought with whoever (Ottawa, CDA...), and they came to an understanding that Otter would continue, but like was stated earlier, it would be the exception.  For instance, I was accepted last year, and moved flat across the country to go to RMC when RMC was my second (last...) choice, while I had unconditional acceptance at my local university, which would have been a no-cost move.  Along with the budget cuts, apparently the 'powers at be' noted that uprooting families to attend school (which, frankly, can be harder on your family than being at an operational unit) is a little silly, and much more expensive in many cases.  So, if you live in Kingston, you can probably go to RMC or Queens, if you live in Ontario/Quebec and really, really want to go to RMC, that might work for you too, or maybe you have your heart set on the military studies program or something, so I'm sure they will take those things into consideration.  Bottom line is, if you have a local university that you are accepted to, you won't be _forced_ to attend RMC as has happened in the past.
Congrats to those accepted this year, and to the couple coming to RMC (I heard 8-10), see you in August sometime.


----------



## Forum_Newbie

Has anyone rx'd a their posting msg after accepting their utpncm offer yet?


----------



## MeanJean

All is quiet on the eastern front.  No posting message for me yet.


----------



## Ostrozac

middle_coast said:
			
		

> Bottom line is, if you have a local university that you are accepted to, you won't be _forced_ to attend RMC as has happened in the past.



Attending a local university works for about half of the forces. But for the other half that's posted to Petawawa, Cold Lake, Yellowknife, etc... acceptance to UTPNCM will necessitate a cost move or IR. The default setting used to be RMC Kingston. This announcement seems to imply that the new default setting is a cost move to a new city of the member's choice, based on which civilian university he chose to apply to. This makes an already great program even more attractive.


----------



## Griffon

I received my posting message on 30 May. They're doing married members with a cost move first and working down the list from there.


----------



## Chernoble

Anyone get their "try again next year" message?  I am anticipating mine but haven't heard anything yet.


----------



## MeanJean

Just got my posting message today.   It is dated for 16 July.  I don't have a cost move so they must be done with those messages.   I guess everyone else's will be out shortly.

I have not seen any "thanks for applying" messages yet but I have seen one selection cancelation.


----------



## Forum_Newbie

MeanJean said:
			
		

> Just got my posting message today.   It is dated for 16 July.  I don't have a cost move so they must be done with those messages.   I guess everyone else's will be out shortly.
> 
> I have not seen any "thanks for applying" messages yet but I have seen one selection cancelation.
> [/quo
> 
> did you have 16 July as the effective date for your transfer to OCdt on your offer also?


----------



## MeanJean

Forum_Newbie said:
			
		

> did you have 16 July as the effective date for your transfer to OCdt on your offer also?



Effective date for promotion to Naval Cadet (for me) is 1 July 12.  I have a few more weeks where I can take advantage of Wing Wednesdays.  It is different having to say good bye to that place.


----------



## ekhan242002

Hello guys does anyone know how many spots are available for nursing because I have just got my admission offer today in nursing. i hoping that D MIL C has not finalize their list yet. ???


----------



## MeanJean

Another update, the Non-Selections messages have started to come out.  There have been two for MARLANT that were released yesterday afternoon.


----------



## MrsMustang

I have yet to hear anything either way. I am assuming that I am not accepted this year. I spoke to my PSO 2 weeks ago and she told me last year someone on our base got their acceptance 7 Aug. That is wayyyyyy to late, since I would have to sell my house and look for a new one.

I am so frustrated right now. Is there many other people still waiting.


----------



## aesop081

MrsMustang said:
			
		

> I am so frustrated right now.



Just remember, no one put a gun to your head and said "fill out this UTPNCM application".

If you are selected and it is too late for you to work something out for your house ( there are certain options to deal with that), you can always turn it down.


----------



## Ostrozac

For anyone that gets an UTPNCM acceptance offer in August, I would strongly recommend grabbing your DEUs and laptop, heading out the door, putting your house on the market, and going unaccompanied for a while. Trying to buy and sell a home in a compressed period of time can increase your odds of being hosed.

I have bigger concerns about offers going out in August though, from a resources perspective. Let's look at hypothetical MCpl Bloggins in Edmonton. Applies for UTPNCM. Hears nothing. Gets promoted and posted in July to Petawawa. Sgt Bloggins get acceptance offer. Is then immediately posted to a city with a university. Maybe even back to Edmonton. The reason that we have an APS is not entirely so we can complicate the summer training schedule -- it is to prevent situations like this. The UTPNCM/CFR/OT messages always used to come out in the late winter and early spring so they could be deconflicted with the posting plot and prevent double cost moves -- waiting until August to send offers is simply too late, from an organizational perspective.


----------



## aesop081

Ostrozac said:
			
		

> Let's look at hypothetical MCpl Bloggins in Edmonton. Applies for UTPNCM. Hears nothing. Gets promoted and posted in July to Petawawa. Sgt Bloggins get acceptance offer. Is then immediately posted to a city with a university. Maybe even back to Edmonton.



Member could proceed to new posting unaccompanied or IR. Once sure he was not selected, he can then complete a full move. If he is selected, he can then make the move from original location to the university location.


----------



## MJP

It may be to late from some perspectives but it is the nature of the beast.  People get accepted late in all programs not just UTP for a whole host of reasons.  There is nothing saying that one HAS to be in their new location and in school by Sept.  Starting in the winter semester is a viable option and makes the most sense considering that in most Unis, courses especially highly desirable ones fill up fast.  The SEM is a pretty decent organization to work with and they give some wide latitude. 

Double cost moves are rare very rare but it happens.  Not ideal but it certainly isn't the end of the world from an organizational perspective, merely a blip on the radar.


----------



## MP 811

Well it's getting close to that time where the new message is going to be released for the upcoming UTPNCM competition.  I think, at this juncture of my life that i'm a competitive candidate this year and will be submitting my name into the hat.  Just wanted to get a feel to see if anyone has heard anything about what (potential) officer career paths are going to be available this year.  Im almost sure that the one i'm interested in the most (INT O) will be closed due to numbers, but anyone care to add anything they might have heard?

I look forward to interacting with anyone on these forums who are considering applying this year as well.  Although it is a competition, im sure we could all benefit from helpful words of wisdom and advice!


----------



## mizzenmast

Glad to see this post. I too have decided that after several years of hopefully doing all the right things to make myself the best candidate I can possibly be for UTPNCM this is my year to apply.  I am very happy to have somewhere to communicate with hopefully a few other people who are going through the same process as I am. 

I am presently on annual leave and do not have access to the DIN, I was wondering if the message for competition has come out yet for this year? It was already a week past the anniversary date of last years message when I left for leave. 

Also do any of the other folks out there in UT land share any of my concerns about this program being the victim of significant reduction of an altogether suspension due to budgetary pressures. I'm talking out of my bum here but I know that in a bean counting world I am a much more expensive student than an OCDT given my rate of pay. I've seen the conversation about the last years otters being the last group at RMC and I was wondering if anyone had similar fears for UTPNCM. 

Once again thanks for starting this thread.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

No msg out yet on the CANFORGEN site or Hfx PSO site.


----------



## MP 811

Hi mizzenmast.  I havent heard anything persay but I would suspect that the number of officer positions for UTPNCM will be reduced due to overborn occupations.  The only other thing I heard was the the CEOTP program is going to be cut drastically, or even shut down completely.

Again, this is just what i've heard and nothing concrete.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

A quick check of the SIP would show the actual numbers rather than squeezin' off some "spec fire".

MARS - 2
MS ENG -	2
NCS ENG - 2
ARMD - 3
ARTY - 2
EME - 1
ENGR - 1
INF - 3
SIGS - 3
ACSO - 4
AEC - 2
AERE - 3
CELE - 2
CONST ENGR - 4
PLT - 3
HCA - 2
INT - 1
LOG - 3
NURS - 2
PHARM - 1
PSEL - 1
TDEV - 2


----------



## MP 811

Thanks for that Eye.....I was looking for that spreadsheet as I used to have it bookmarked but I ended up being posted, so I lost the link.  One can only hope that those numbers might get better, but in reality, highly unlikely.


----------



## Melbatoast

Those numbers aren't drastically lower than the past few years.  In fact the numbers for my occupation match exactly the year I got picked up (two years ago).  It's a highly competitive, expensive-for-the-CF program.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

just me... said:
			
		

> Thanks for that Eye.....I was looking for that spreadsheet as I used to have it bookmarked but I ended up being posted, so I lost the link.  One can only hope that those numbers might get better, but in reality, highly unlikely.



Import/Export tool in Internet Explorer on BASELINE will let you save your Favorites to a file on your Q drive (which should be movin' with you on a CD/DVD)....saves a TON of headache.


----------



## mizzenmast

I've also heard a bunch of talk, including from current CEOTP folks that in future there would be a much reduced or abandoned CEOTP program. It's funny to see those numbers in the SIP, it wasn't that long ago that some occupations were in the dozens for intake requirements. Certainly didn't take long for that to change.  Thanks for the post Eye.


----------



## aesop081

mizzenmast said:
			
		

> I've also heard a bunch of talk, including from current CEOTP folks that in future there would be a much reduced or abandoned CEOTP program.



I don't know if it is any more than "talk" but CEOTP has always been the program of last resort for officer production.


----------



## Chernoble

I wonder when the competition message will be cut.  It's nearing the end of August and the PSO in Cold Lake told me that the OT messages are still not out yet.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

The end of Aug couldn't get much "nearer".  >

BTW, there are some OT msgs out.  I'd hazard some spec fire as to the impact CANFORGEN 145/12 has had on the entire CMP org, which could be the reason for some of the delay, but that is a complete WAG on my part.


----------



## MP 811

I've never seen it go so late for this particular message to be released, so I would tend to agree with you on that.  I'm hoping it comes out on Friday at the latest as i'm going to Russia next week and will be taking myself off the grid until I return.


----------



## mizzenmast

I am a little nervous about the late date of the message. I do have a little fear that the program may be suspended or cancelled. Let's hope we see something before we're too far into September. I am sure that many of you like me are commencing academic commitments based on preparing for commissioning and would love to know our efforts won't be in vain.


----------



## Forum_Newbie

I was one of five selected to attend RMC this year from the UTPNCM program.  Don't worry about if there are cuts or not, just put in your paperwork.   Just before I got my message Gen Tremblay announced to the whole school that there weren't going to be any more otters.  There was some fighting at the top of the chain somewhere and poof a few weeks later I get my offer to attend RMC, whatever may be the current decision can always change.  I personally believe there will always be an Otter Sqn, I've been there only a few weeks and I can tell how much value having us there brings to the college.  We bring a level of maturity and experience that would hurt the regular officers if otter Sqn ceased to be.

Of those that got into otter Sqn this year, two of us lived in kingston already (no cost move), two enrolled in the military strategic studies degree which is only offered at RMC.  The fifth I'm not too sure of, who is doing a psych degree... I think.

I'd highly recommend that everyone make sure they apply to a civilian university, if RMC doesn't take you, a civilian school could be your only option (I know.... sounds awful).  The one thing I regret in this entire process, I didn't apply earlier.  I had every reason to doubt I'd be accepted into the program, bad grades, CoC that wasn't super supportive, still not sure that I did all that great in the interview, but I still got in.  

Talk to the BPSO your file is a 3 part score, the CFAT, the interview, and job fit.  The last two are based on your interview, job fit you should seriously spend some time thinking about how some of your experience makes you a candidate for the type of officer your going for.  Also consider applying for some of the less desirable occupations, every meeting for UTPNCM I went to 90% of the people wanted INT O and LOG O, if you want it go for it, but there's allot of competition.
--------------------

Glad to see this post. I too have decided that after several years of hopefully doing all the right things to make myself the best candidate I can possibly be for UTPNCM this is my year to apply.  I am very happy to have somewhere to communicate with hopefully a few other people who are going through the same process as I am.

I am presently on annual leave and do not have access to the DIN, I was wondering if the message for competition has come out yet for this year? It was already a week past the anniversary date of last years message when I left for leave.

Also do any of the other folks out there in UT land share any of my concerns about this program being the victim of significant reduction of an altogether suspension due to budgetary pressures. I'm talking out of my bum here but I know that in a bean counting world I am a much more expensive student than an OCDT given my rate of pay. I've seen the conversation about the last years otters being the last group at RMC and I was wondering if anyone had similar fears for UTPNCM.

Once again thanks for starting this thread.


----------



## newmet

Hi there, 

I too am awaiting the message, I was thinking the message last year had been cut earlier than this.  I have my fingers crossed that this program isn't cancelled.  I am currently enrolled in my last university course that is required and distance learning really isn't my thing   I think I need to see the PSO again so I can plan out a course of action.  If a trade I am interested in is available and by some miracle I got the spot I would be applying to attend a civilian university as I am part of a service couple.

I hope we hear something soon!


----------



## aesop081

newmet said:
			
		

> by some miracle I got the spot I would be applying to attend a civilian university as I am part of a service couple.



As i recall, there will be no new UTPNCMs at RMC so going to civilian university is sort of a given, no ?


----------



## MJP

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> As i recall, there will be no new UTPNCMs at RMC so going to civilian university is sort of a given, no ?



There will still be UTs that will go to RMC, that much has been determined.  The numbers will be substantially reduced and for the most part, spots will be for no cost moves or individuals that make strong cases for their attendance at the college.


----------



## MP 811

Wow!........there's alot of tumbleweed and crickets on the message front!  Anyone hear anything?


----------



## mizzenmast

Not a word yet. I'm going to see the BPSO shortly for some educational stuff, I'll be sure and rattle his cage. Of note the CFR message is also adrift so it is probably just a delay I hope.


----------



## MJP

mizzenmast said:
			
		

> Not a word yet. I'm going to see the BPSO shortly for some educational stuff, I'll be sure and rattle his cage. Of note the CFR message is also adrift so it is probably just a delay I hope.



It is confusing as nothing has been released including the AVOTP message which typically comes out in the Apr/May timeframe.  I was chilling with a friend that is a PSELO and he is surprised as well and has no idea what the deal is.


----------



## newmet

I called the BPSO's office yesterday and was told they are hoping to see a CANFORGEN next week.  They are just waiting with the rest of us.


----------



## NL2012

I have contacted both the BPSO office here in Halifax and Greenwood and they have no clue when the message will be cut. It was be nice to know if the program is cancelled this year and if not I hope there is an extension on the norm of Novemeber deadlines.


----------



## mizzenmast

Hey Everyone, 
Talked to the PSO's office today. They still believe the program will be a go this year but the guy I talked to (I've tried to be generic to hide their identity, have at me milnet trolls!) believes that the message will be released soon and that the dates for application submissions *will not* be amended beyond the usual due dates. Some food for thought.


----------



## pylon

Earlier this week, the WPSO at 8 Wing sent out an email to all units advising that the message was still "a few weeks away", but to start the application process now in order to not miss the cutoff dates. As for what trades would be open, it stated that essentially it's the same as last year. I will try and post the email from work tomorrow.


kc


----------



## pylon

As received from the 8 Wing PSO:

"Good morning all
> 
> Could you please dissiminate to your members.  Thank you
> 
> Info from D Mil C is that msgs announcing subj programs are still several weeks away.  In the interim the WPSO office will be accepting applications immediately so as individuals do not miss the deadlines.  I am informed that for commissioning programs the occupations that will be available will be the same as last year (please find the CFNs attached stating the open occupations for commissioning).
> 
> To avoid delays I will need all commissioning applications to the WPSO office NLT 23 Nov 12 and all AVOTP/COTP applications NLT 15 Dec 12.
> 
> 
> http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2011/138-11_e.asp
> 
> http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2011/137-11_e.asp
> 
> http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2011/140-11_e.asp "
>


----------



## mizzenmast

Thanks pylon, finally some decent news.


----------



## SuperAVS

Hello folks!
Started the UTPNCM process, but I'm stumbling with the leadership portion. I've heard people say leadership courses count, and volunteering outside your duties in the community. Unfortunately my last appointment with PSO didn't really explain what they look for.   Any UTPNCM grads/students/hopefuls have any experience they wish to share with examples of what you did to get recognized? 

Thanks guys/gals :yellow:


----------



## Shamrock

SuperAVS said:
			
		

> Hello folks!
> Started the UTPNCM process, but I'm stumbling with the leadership portion. I've heard people say leadership courses count, and volunteering outside your duties in the community. Unfortunately my last appointment with PSO didn't really explain what they look for.   Any UTPNCM grads/students/hopefuls have any experience they wish to share with examples of what you did to get recognized?
> 
> Thanks guys/gals :yellow:



Been a while. I had leadership courses, roles, an volunteer positions all included in my recommedation. However, it was a spectrum of examples - so, for factor one, a substantiating example was furnished. Factor two, etc. Where one instance worked for two factors, so be it. 

I am woefully unfamiliar with the present process. I'll try to learn up on it more for Tuesday.


----------



## Buddy336

Why Tuesday, do you know something we don't ?


----------



## Wookilar

The UT selection process hasn't changed in recent years, unless something very new is coming down the pipe (which is always possible), I can't see the basics of it morphing too drastically.

As with any highly competitive OT competition in the CF, there are far more applicants than there are positions.

What makes the UTP different is the leadership factor. For other OTs, it's mostly based on technical aptitude (SAR Techs and Int Ops are a bit different IMHO, you also need to be partially insane for those trades).

How that leadership is measured is going to be important because that is what is going to make you stand out on the merit board. You are going to want to have more than one example of leadership.

Think of it this way: everyone at the merit board will have 2 full university credits (marks don't really matter unless things are very close points wise), everyone will have a letter from their CO, everyone will have the recommendation from the PSO, CFAT test scores etc etc.

So if everyone have the same basic requirements, how are you going to stand out? Everything from little league coach, soup kitchen volunteer, blood donor for life, leadership courses (PLQ/JLC), leadership positions, OPI voluntolds, ran ball hockey for the regiment, organized the jr jungle run for the kids at family day etc etc.

Don't get leadership confused with rank. I got accepted as a Cpl (many are, I'm not special). But I was also Sect 2IC, Sect IC, various OPI spots over the last few years, multiple charity/community events. I also ran a few half marathons and had 1st year uni done part time.

UT selection, like all merit boards, are all inclusive deals. Just remember, this is not a PER, stuff you did 2-3 (or more) years ago still count!


----------



## Buddy336

Message is out guys, good luck to all !
http://msg-server.marlant.halifax.dnd.ca/messages/stadacona/cfnes_halifax/2012298000507.html


----------



## Buddy336

Perfect, thank you.  Another good piece of info here:



			
				Buddy336 said:
			
		

> Message is out guys, good luck to all !
> http://msg-server.marlant.halifax.dnd.ca/messages/stadacona/cfnes_halifax/2012298000507.html


----------



## navymich

Buddy336 said:
			
		

> Message is out guys, good luck to all !
> http://msg-server.marlant.halifax.dnd.ca/messages/stadacona/cfnes_halifax/2012298000507.html



No joy with that link.  Might just be available on the Halifax server, maybe?  I don't see it yet on the Canforgen page.  Would anyone have another link, or be able to post a copy please.  Thanks!


----------



## navymich

Canforgen link: http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2012/202-12_e.asp


----------



## Chernoble

Let's hope that the process is faster this year, than last.  Good luck everyone!


----------



## newmet

So, how is everyone doing with their application?  Deadline to PSO, here is Gagetown, is Nov 26th.  I am sitting down with my MWO tomorrow and finishing up the paperwork.  

I was accepted to a local University, so I can now add that to the file.  Does everyone know what they want to be when they grow up?


----------



## acadieavs

Well, now that that all applications are in and everyone is in waiting, I'm here wishing there was some way of finding out where i stand with my application ? I know how i did last time around but testing is different this year, and the personality test might just give me an edge. It would be nice if you knew your score going in to the competition. :-\. So any one apply for pilot this year


----------



## Chernoble

I don't think there is any way to find out any information until the messages get cut sometime in the spring 

I applied for PSEL, MPO and AEC, respectively.  Here's hoping


----------



## boredinto

Hi All

I was hoping someone here could answer some questions or point me in the right direction.  I have been strongly considering my candidacy for Pharmacy/Nurse via the UTPNCM program and am trying to gather as much information as I can before I make my intentions public.    

1) In order to qualify for the UTPNCM program the applicant must have unconditional acceptance to a university in the program of choice, but since Pharm and and Nursing require at least 1 year (likely 2) years of full time  pre professional studies before they will even be considered for Pharm school, do I only require acceptance for a BSc program at a school that has a pharm program?

2) UTPNCM covers 4 years of subsidized education, potentially 5 in exceptional circumstances, however Pharmacy is a 5 year minimum (As I have no prior post secondary) with a strong likelihood of 6 years if I am not accepted into the program after only 1 year of preprofessional  studies.   Is this accounted for in the application/selection process, or is there an unwritten expectation that anyone who applies for those programs already have the requisite schooling to ensure only a 4 or 5 year plan is required.

3) I read that school transfers are not permissible, however, as the closest Pharm program would incur a cost move, it would make financial sense for the military to allow me to complete the pre professional studies in the city I am currently posted and not move until accepted into a Pharm program.  Has anyone heard of this happening before?  I am not concerned with where I am posted, I was only thinking of trying to save the military a dime... :

Thanks for your assistance - Ive already learned quite a bit from what has been posted on this subjet before.  This site has been extremely helpful!


----------



## RubberTree

Nursing is a 4 year program that generally takes students directly out of high school.


----------



## boredinto

RubberTree said:
			
		

> Nursing is a 4 year program that generally takes students directly out of high school.



Thanks, I edited my post for accuracy.   I should have been more clear.

Pharm is a minimum of 5 years, every school requires  1 full year(likely 2) of preprofessional studies as BCs with courses related to Pharmacy.    Nursing, while only a 4 year program, often requires a minimum of 48 credits(2 full years) to be taken as part of a BCs before applying to the School of Nursing.    I know there are other schools which have direct entry programs, I was using the Universities closest to me as reference as the UTPNCM instructions cite them as the schools I should be applying too.  So my question was more about applying for UTPNCM to get my BSN, but my university application would be for a BSc, with the intent of moving into the BSN program (upon acceptance).


----------



## mizzenmast

Chernoble said:
			
		

> I don't think there is any way to find out any information until the messages get cut sometime in the spring
> 
> I applied for PSEL, MPO and AEC, respectively.  Here's hoping



Agree, I think the waiting is going to be the hardest part. Looking at last year, offers were well into May for some folks. I am a current student at my university of choice, for those of you who are attending as new full time students this fall would a May offer cause you problems on getting courses for the fall? I am more so wondering for personal interest. I'm a HCA, MPO, and PSEL applicant.


----------



## Chernoble

mizzenmast said:
			
		

> Agree, I think the waiting is going to be the hardest part. Looking at last year, offers were well into May for some folks. I am a current student at my university of choice, for those of you who are attending as new full time students this fall would a May offer cause you problems on getting courses for the fall? I am more so wondering for personal interest. I'm a HCA, MPO, and PSEL applicant.



I don't think so.  From my experience at U of Manitoba and at RMC, via correponsdence, I can't even apply for fall courses til some time in July.  A May offer would definitly hinder summer session applications but probably not the fall.  Hopefully though, the Military and the University you are attending could have a discussion if you got a late message and you had to try to register after the registration deadlines.


----------



## newmet

A May answer would actually benefit me, at the University I was accepted to I need to accept, for fall placement, but June.

I was already accepted to RMC as well, I got the e-mail from RMC with my log in before I received the notification I was accepted as a student 

I applied for MPO, HCA and LOG O(Air)

Good luck!


----------



## stretch

Does anyone know if Cadets in the ROTP can transfer to Otter Squadron?


----------



## acadieavs

I think the only way way it would work for me if i had a May offer would be to go IR till the house is sold and all that stuff, it would be difficult but doable. When it comes down to it the question one must ask himself his how much is this really worth to me, I myself i'm ready for whatever comes.  I always hope for the best and expect the worst.

I applied PLT, ACSO, and EME. Cheers...


----------



## Chernoble

stretch said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if Cadets in the ROTP can transfer to Otter Squadron?



I really don't know.  As far as I understand, Otter is for UT's so I doubt it.  Maybe if you were an NCM, got out of the military and then got back in under the ROTP program?


----------



## stretch

I was in the infantry reserves for 6 years before this.
However looking more in to the Otter Squadron I have become aware that it is comprised of members who have a much longer term of service than my own and I will just have to put my head down and plough through the next three years or so.


----------



## Chernoble

stretch said:
			
		

> I was in the infantry reserves for 6 years before this.
> However looking more in to the Otter Squadron I have become aware that it is comprised of members who have a much longer term of service than my own and I will just have to put my head down and plough through the next three years or so.



Good luck! Hope to see you there in the future


----------



## Airman

I contacted DMILC on Tues inquiring about the status of my UTPNCM file. I was told that all the selection messages would be sent out no later than the end of April. The reasons for the delay are due to the uncertainty of the upcoming budget. They already know who the selected candidates are, but money for the program is in doubt. Hopefully this program will still be a go, but being that the training budget seems to be a preferred target who knows. Anyways it seems the wait is almost over thank God.


----------



## acadieavs

I was informed by my BPSO that CEOTP was being canned, so my application was void for this particular competition. So i asked about UTPNCM, i was told not to worry there was no plan to cancel UTPNCM this year. Hope this helps.


----------



## Airman

When did you ask your BPSO these questions? I was told the same last Nov when my interview occurred. The problem is the military has been asked recently to decrease spending by a further 2 billion. Anyways we will find out sometime soon. 
CELE, AERE, and Const Eng applicant.


----------



## DAA

DAA said:
			
		

> There is no CEOTP Program for 2013.  The last one was the 2012 program announcement at CANFORGEN 137/11.  DAOD 5002-6 provides details.
> 
> No idea if there will be anything for 2014 but if there is, it is usually announced in Aug for the following year.



For your reference.


----------



## mizzenmast

Airman said:
			
		

> I contacted DMILC on Tues inquiring about the status of my UTPNCM file. I was told that all the selection messages would be sent out no later than the end of April. The reasons for the delay are due to the uncertainty of the upcoming budget. They already know who the selected candidates are, but money for the program is in doubt. Hopefully this program will still be a go, but being that the training budget seems to be a preferred target who knows. Anyways it seems the wait is almost over thank God.



Wow, I go away for a week and all this info goes up on the Forum. Thanks for the info folks, please keep it coming for those of us out here in the fields, (or waves, or winds) based on occ and element. 

Thanks!


----------



## As Mom

Anyone out there get an offer yet? BPSO said it might be late this year May timeframe.


----------



## oscarmu272508823

I was told ROTP selection (including CT) will be before May 10.
Means before may 10th, OCADT will be selected.
IDK about UTPNCM.


----------



## George Wallace

oscarmu272508823 said:
			
		

> I was told ROTP selection (including CT) will be before May 10.
> Means before may 10th, OCADT will be selected.
> IDK about UTPNCM.



Learn to communicate using proper ENGLISH or suffer the consequences.  

This is the Last Warning  before you are muted.



George
MILNET STAFF


----------



## Airman

Has anyone received their selection message yet?


----------



## acadieavs

Nothing yet, patiently waiting.


----------



## Ryan81

Hello, 

I am responding from CFB Kingston, and as of today I have not received a selection message stating my acceptance or rejection. 

The roomer mill is that the first round of messages will be sent out around the end of April to mid May time frame. Depending on which candidates accept / refuse a given offer, I am not sure if / when a second round of messages would be drafted, but I have heard that if you don’t hear anything in the first round, you might get picked up in the second. However, I stress this is roomer and hearsay only, and I have no reliable source, I am just offering up what I’ve heard and seeing if anyone can confirm or deny this timeline. 

I can empathise with everyone reading over this and trying to get a sense of the situation; the waiting is starting to kill me, I just want to know. I wish you all luck. 

Regards,
Ryan


----------



## newmet

Thanks everyone for the update.  I haven't even bothered calling the BPSO here yet, I figure they will notify me if they have anything to say.  My DCO has said he will ask around for me but at this point I am continuing my life as I don't get it, ready to apply again next year.  I figure I am low on the list to be looked at as I have been in for only 5 years and don't have a PLQ yet.  My unit is pushing for me to get it this year though so that would make me more competitive for next year . Watch and shoot.  Good luck everyone!


----------



## newmet

There is already a post on the UTPNCM program for this year, come on over to join us


----------



## Chernoble

It's still REALLY early since they haven't cut any messages for this competition as far as I can tell.

Don't worry, when the messages start flowing, people will post about it and it will be common knowledge around the Force.

Last year, I did not recieve my letter of non-acceptance til July or so, to give some indication of that.

Newmet: the main thing to be more competitive, besides the interview, is more University, especially related to the degree program that relates to the trade(s) you want. A nice letter from your chain of command or a PLQ will not go as far as more credits. It's an officer production program and the faster and cheaper they can make you an officer (while still ensuring you fit the bill) the better.


----------



## Melbatoast

Chernoble said:
			
		

> Newmet: the main thing to be more competitive, besides the interview, is more University, especially related to the degree program that relates to the trade(s) you want. A nice letter from your chain of command or a PLQ will not go as far as more credits. It's an officer production program and the faster and cheaper they can make you an officer (while still ensuring you fit the bill) the better.



From where did you get this information? There is no evaluation criteria that directly measures how much university you have done - _anything_ you can do to build related skills and experience is what they are after. If more post secondary is best for whatever job you want, then OK. That is not always going to be the case. 

If they cared how long I was going to take I should guess they would have preferred I finish out the three semesters I had remaining in my previous degree instead making me choose, and then paying for, a completely new but no more appropriate degree program (it just grants a BSc instead of a BA...). In fact, they nor I had no idea what degree I was going to pursue until after the initial offer.


----------



## Chernoble

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> From where did you get this information? There is no evaluation criteria that directly measures how much university you have done - _anything_ you can do to build related skills and experience is what they are after. If more post secondary is best for whatever job you want, then OK. That is not always going to be the case.
> 
> If they cared how long I was going to take I should guess they would have preferred I finish out the three semesters I had remaining in my previous degree instead making me choose, and then paying for, a completely new but no more appropriate degree program (it just grants a BSc instead of a BA...). In fact, they nor I had no idea what degree I was going to pursue until after the initial offer.



Every time I have spoken to a PSO about becoming more competitive over the past 3 years, this is the advice I was given. 

It's not like trying to get a better PER or getting promoted.   PLQ will speak to leadership of course which is nice but things like exempt PT and a second language profile don't mean much of anything.

When it comes to your situation about getting a degree in a certain field for a certain trade, the more courses you have related to that degree program make you more competitive.  Obviously if you are appying for a trade that requires a certain degree for entry standards, the more courses related to that degree would be the preference.


----------



## Airman

That logic works fine unless you are looking for a trade that requires a degree such as engineering. It is next to impossible to do courses that count for engineering credits by correspondence. I was always told that the more leadership potential that you show, the better you are for this program. Of course applying for an MOC that is less desirable always helps. According to DMILC, this year the mighty dollar is king; you are more likely to get accepted if you apply to schools that are within your geographical region. Anyways, the messages are supposed to arrive any day now.


----------



## acadieavs

The way my PSO explained it points are given for 30 credits and below or 30 credits and above this might be how one would be more competitive, for example if you have completed more than 30 credits you would get a higher score. As for the mighty dollar, I was told agian by the BPSO that having applied to a university far or near will have no impact on the selection process the amounts per UTPNCM membre are pre-determined some use more than others. Let's say your an applicant in an isolated region which has no acces to higher education or that if there is a university in your area, but this one does not offer the program you need for your specific trade, it would be unjust to refuse an applicant with a higher scoring base on this. Ultimately what matters is your potential to become an officer everything else is already accounted for.


----------



## Chernoble

Airman said:
			
		

> According to DMILC, this year the mighty dollar is king; you are more likely to get accepted if you apply to schools that are within your geographical region.



I hope this isn't the case with people that live in the sticks like me (Cold Lake).  We don't have a school close enough that wouldn't require a posting message


----------



## acadieavs

Perfect example, Chern...

cheers.


----------



## Airman

Cold Lake is no big deal if you applied to schools in Edmonton or Calgary, as both cities are within your geographical region. I'm in the same boat, I live in Trenton, which means the nearest schools to me are both in Kingston (anyone say RMC). As for more points awarded for above 30 credits, that's the first I've heard of that. Regardless the waiting phase is almost over, everyone is saying the messages are finalized, and will be sent out before the end of the month. Of course that applies for the first round selection messages only. What I'm curious about is whether or not we will be invited to attend St Jean this year, or better yet next summer.


----------



## acadieavs

Then you might want to consider getting a little info on how UTPNCM scoring is done its always good to know what you need to work on and how to do it if you have to apply again in the future.


----------



## MJP

Airman said:
			
		

> What I'm curious about is whether or not we will be invited to attend St Jean this year, or better yet next summer.



It will be the summer after your first year of school.  It just isn't feasiable, especially if there is a move in there for folks to make it on the coming summer serials.  Plus most of the slots are already spoken for by the ROTP/UTPNCM folks from the year previous.  There might be some outliers, but if accepted expect to go the following summer.


----------



## Ryan81

Hello all, thought this might be of interest to the community. 

I’ve been following the Strategic Intake Plan to try and get an idea of the changing dynamics regarding the available positions. If anyone is unaware of this site, I would highly recommend it. It is updated frequently, and numbers for some of the intake programs have been adjusted as recently as 11 April 2013. 

Furthermore, you can view the status of the trade you are applying for and their requirement for manning, as well as predicted intakes for each trade for the next two or three fiscal years. 

Hope this helps; http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/dgmp/dpgr/engraph/reports/description_e.asp?sec=2&report=bpd 

Cheers,


----------



## Chernoble

Thanks Ryan! That's a great link!



			
				acadieavs said:
			
		

> Then you might want to consider getting a little info on how UTPNCM scoring is done its always good to know what you need to work on and how to do it if you have to apply again in the future.



I agree.  This is not my first application and my first had a LOT of checks in the right boxes   Even though I have more checks this year, I am not holding my breath!


----------



## Ryan81

Hello All, 

Just a quick update. 

I have contacted D Mil C: Education and Commissioning Section, and inquired on when the UTPNCM Selection messages will be sent out.

The official response is: The first round of selection messages will be sent out at the end of April. 

Hope this helps mitigate some of the stress and unknowns for everyone waiting to hear something. 

Best of luck to everyone, 

Regards,
Ryan


----------



## Chernoble

Thanks for the update Ryan


----------



## mizzenmast

I must have called just after you, and given the response I received I think many of our fellow applicants have called D mil C this week. Oh well the end of the month is not that far off. Unless it's a Navy "end of the month" then I am sure we'll have offers by June. 



			
				Ryan81 said:
			
		

> Hello All,
> 
> Just a quick update.
> 
> I have contacted D Mil C: Education and Commissioning Section, and inquired on when the UTPNCM Selection messages will be sent out.
> 
> The official response is: The first round of selection messages will be sent out at the end of April.
> 
> Hope this helps mitigate some of the stress and unknowns for everyone waiting to hear something.
> 
> Best of luck to everyone,
> 
> Regards,
> Ryan


----------



## mizzenmast

Also of note. The ROTP forum has picked up this last week with offers starting to come out. This should bode well for us as well.


----------



## yeOLSiggy

I peruse these forums from time to time and appreciate all of the helpful info!

I've decided to stop lurking and add my two cents as I'm sure some will be interested to know: I received my offer just this morning.  

Looking at the dtg, it landed in the PSO's office yesterday sometime after 1740...  I guess they're working late to get these messages cut!  I'd imagine the flood gates are now open and we should see more and more reports of people receiving their messages too.

Good luck!


----------



## Chernoble

Congrats! That's awesome! What trade did you get?


----------



## yeOLSiggy

Sigs O.  My first choice was CELE but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to stay army: I've been in this uniform for over 10 years...  At any rate, beggars can't be choosers and I'm certainly not going to complain.

Besides, I get to study engineering at my either RMC or Queen's U.  Now it's decision time...


----------



## Chernoble

Awesome! Congrats again!


----------



## acadieavs

Anyone anxious yet , congrats on the selection.


----------



## yeOLSiggy

Chernoble said:
			
		

> Awesome! Congrats again!



Thanks much and best of luck to you!  I'm interested to know how many others are striving for Siggy O (Sigs or CELE)?  

Also, of further interest to some, it looks as if no time is wasted in promoting demoting appointing a member to OCdt once the offer is accepted.  Mine is effective 01 Jul 13 but I suppose this is for those who don't get BMOQ PLAR'ed and have to do that training before September?  Either way, its fast and furious!


----------



## Ryan81

Congratulations on your Acceptance to the Program!

Did the message come to you directly, or where you given the message through your Chain of Command? 

I am working towards INT O, but I have a friend who is applying for CELE / SIG O.


----------



## Chernoble

yeOLSiggy said:
			
		

> Also, of further interest to some, it looks as if no time is wasted in promoting demoting appointing a member to OCdt once the offer is accepted.  Mine is effective 01 Jul 13 but I suppose this is for those who don't get BMOQ PLAR'ed and have to do that training before September?  Either way, its fast and furious!



Yeah, I don't know.  There is a strong chance I'm getting my Sgt's this year but if I get into UT, they might just skip it.  I would def take both but UT is what I really want!


----------



## acadieavs

has anyone heard of messages being cut today or did we only hear from those that were handed out yesterday?


----------



## newmet

yeOLSiggy said:
			
		

> I peruse these forums from time to time and appreciate all of the helpful info!
> 
> I've decided to stop lurking and add my two cents as I'm sure some will be interested to know: I received my offer just this morning.
> 
> Looking at the dtg, it landed in the PSO's office yesterday sometime after 1740...  I guess they're working late to get these messages cut!  I'd imagine the flood gates are now open and we should see more and more reports of people receiving their messages too.
> 
> Good luck!



Congratulations!!!!  

My husband has an old co-worker who got hers today, awesome that people are hearing now   Good luck everyone!


----------



## subcse

I saw about 4 UTPNCM selection messages on Docbase today. Very exciting time!

Good luck to everyone.


----------



## yeOLSiggy

Ryan81 said:
			
		

> Congratulations on your Acceptance to the Program!
> 
> Did the message come to you directly, or where you given the message through your Chain of Command?
> 
> I am working towards INT O, but I have a friend who is applying for CELE / SIG O.



Came through CoC officially (for the record) but I did get a heads-up from the PSO before-hand, due to the fact that I'm currently on PATA leave...  I phoned once a week for two or three weeks before finding out > ( The clerk may have just wanted me to stop phoning  )


----------



## acadieavs

Just wondering, has anyone seen or heard, maybe even received an offer for PLT or ACSO ?


----------



## Airman

I got my offer for AERE officer this morning. I will be going to Carleton University or Ottawa to study engineering. As well, DEU change occurs 01 July, and the offer is good for 21 days. As for how fast the message travelled, my unit got it at 0830 this morning, and I received it just prior to 0900. A final word, good luck to everyone, it seems the messages are coming in waves.


----------



## avstach

Congrats Airman, gives me hope I will here about AERE or AEC in the near future. If it goes through I will hopefully be going to Carleton as well. Already have the acceptance in hand from them.


----------



## mizzenmast

I love how high the number of "lurkers" on this forum is right now. Usually when I check the forum in the morning there is never a user reading the forum as well. Let alone ten of you (which I think I had at last count). Guess we're all in the same boat, trying to grab whatever info we can. 

Congrats to those of you who have been selected. Let's hope the messages keep coming.


----------



## newmet

Congratulations to everyone getting acceptance!  So exciting for you all   Good luck to everyone else!


----------



## Airman

Has anyone else gotten their offers yet? It seems pretty quiet on the forum today; there has to be more selection messages out there. Anyways, 3 weeks seems like a fairly short time to sort out TOS for those of us that are reaching our 20. For those that didn't know, it's up to the member to contact Ottawa to set up TOS extensions prior to the end of the 3 week acceptance deadline. Anyways I'm certainly not complaining, receiving an offer certainly made my day. The only problem I have is trying to figure a way of keeping a positive attitude at my current job while completing everything that a change of rank and occupation requires. As well, I will definitely be going on a restricted posting to Ottawa for at least the first year, as my wife is currently unable to be co-located with me for another 2 years (she's an officer). Finally, for those that have not received offers yet, remember this is only the first round, there is bound to be first round picks who are unable to receive unconditional University acceptances.


----------



## Chernoble

My situation is really messed up. Got a last minute booking on a course that I need to be assessed on before I can get an offer for UT and may not get that offer if I don't do well on said course.  I feel worse for the supposed 3 other guys waiting for me to take this course as they all have already and we are fighting for one spot 

It's definatetly an interesting process this year!


----------



## Airman

avstach said:
			
		

> Congrats Airman, gives me hope I will here about AERE or AEC in the near future. If it goes through I will hopefully be going to Carleton as well. Already have the acceptance in hand from them.



Which degree have you been accepted into? I have offers for either Mechanical, Computer Systems, or Aero from Carleton. I'm leaning towards Computer Systems, but that could change after talking with my wife, she's an AERE officer. If you get your offer for AERE it will specify that you have to do either mech, electrical, computer, aero/aeronautical, or engineering physics. Gone is the option to do hard physics, math, space sciences, or software engineering. From what I've been told the AERE trade is bloated with personnel with either mech or aero, which means in the future for better post grad or posting options you would be better served with computer or electrical engineering. On another note most AERE UT's serve there first posting in Ottawa working in the project management cells. Anyways, good luck, especially if you get AEC; I've been told Cornwall is a bitch to pass.


----------



## acadieavs

It seems as though not all messages have gone out, still haven't heard or seen anything on aircrew trades. i'm thinking those could take a little longer?


----------



## mizzenmast

acadieavs said:
			
		

> It seems as though not all messages have gone out, still haven't heard or seen anything on aircrew trades. I'm thinking those could take a little longer?



Hey, 
I would also agree that the bulk of the messages are somewhere in the "works" just given the number of folks on this forum who have not seen an offer. Looking at the number of us alone it would be likely that someone would have seen an offer aside from the one guy who has posted as getting one. 
I have seen some responses to offers on the message traffic but only a small number I would find it hard to believe this was it.


----------



## avstach

Airman;

I have unconditional acceptance to Mech at Carleton. My former SAMEO let me know about the restrictions on the degrees now. I am glad they eliminated the other options. I feel if you are an Engineering Officer you should have an engineering degree. Where are you currently posted? I was posted from Cold Lake to St Jean last summer. With 6 years experience on the 18s I would like to follow that stream if selected. I spent two years in North Bay and have heard the nightmares of Cornwall. Worth a shot though. 

Thanks for the luck. Hope to hear something soon.


----------



## acadieavs

Any new messages out there? Its been pretty quiet since the first few.


----------



## As Mom

Applied for HCA, MPO and Log O.  BPSO said they had nothing yet and was going to prod D Mil C but haven't heard back.  Registration started at the Civi university I would go to 3 weeks ago.  Would really like to make sure I get into the right classes but still waiting... Good luck to everyone who applied.


----------



## Airman

For those applicants that do not have terms of service to carry them through to 01 July 2022, I would recommend that they prod their orderly rooms to start the TOS application. If you get your acceptance offer, you will only have until 01 July to ensure that you have current TOS. As I found out, you/your unit are responsible for TOS, not Ottawa,, they will not do it for you. As well, 21 days to accept your offer seems fairly short, especially if you are currently deployed. Good luck to everyone, I imagine there will be plenty of offers travelling down the pipeline soon.


----------



## sidemount

I wouldn't say plenty of offers.....if i recall from the in/out spreadsheet on the careers webpage, there are only 40 UTPNCM positions forces wide up for grabs this competition.

I haven't heard of any messages coming down in petawawa yet. Hopefully soon....


----------



## acadieavs

I got my offer for ACSO today made it official and sent the acceptance via my orderly room so now wait till I get my air crew selection test and off to Moncton NB from Bagotville, feeling pretty pumped. Oh and what was this about TOS I got mine for 1july13, does that mean I'm good to go ?


----------



## sidemount

Should be all good to go.

After you accept the offer, i believe it is up to the clerks to make sure your TOS has enough years to cover off your obligitory service. 

Congrats on your offer!


----------



## Airman

Concerning TOS, make sure your orderly room is aware that you require enough to take you to 01 July 2022. According to DMIL C, you will not receive an official posting message until Peoplesoft reflects your new TOS. As well, if new TOS is required, expect at least 2-4 weeks to have all the requirements met before officially signing your new contract. Hope this helps, I'm presently going through this scenario, as I have 18 years in.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

acadieavs said:
			
		

> I got my offer for ACSO today made it official and sent the acceptance via my orderly room so now wait till I get my air crew selection test and off to Moncton NB from Bagotville, feeling pretty pumped. Oh and what was this about TOS I got mine for 1july13, does that mean I'm good to go ?



It is likely your COS that is 01 Jul 13 (Change of Status) vice your TOS (Terms of Service).

Info on TOS requirements including Restricted Release Date/Period are found in ADM (HR-MIL) Instruction 05/05, Paras 18-21, and Para 26 is specific to UTPNCM.  

I'd have a read.  Annex A, Apppendix 1 to the order shows the TOS Sequence by occupation as well.

Congrats to all who were successful!


----------



## acadieavs

After looking it over I'm ok I still have 19 years left on my TOS, oh and thx again for the explanation, still wishing good luck to everyone waiting on an offer.

Cheers.


----------



## 2shiny2bshy

I've been watching this post for months now getting as much info as I could from all of you.  THANK YOU to all who are sharing their knowledge!  Especially those who had the courage to go directly to DMIL C for status updates!

I received my HCA offer last week, struggled all week to get past the red tape of university selection processes and managed to get an unconditional acceptance to a preferred Uni!  Just waiting for my message to be amended and will be accepting my offer shortly!  WHOOP WHOOP!

What have people been considering for BTL during the summer months?  Just trying to get some ideas since many more students will be sitting on BTL with no BOTC or French Training to do... don't wanna be bored for 4 summers.

Good luck to all those still waiting, I heard another wave of offers were sent out today!


----------



## acadieavs

So i was wondering if anyone could help clarify something for me, when you get posted to your University are you IR or is it a cost move, or do you have to pay for the move yourself? Cause i can't really see myself being IR for 4 years 1000km away from my family and having to take on a demanding course with the added stress. If anyone has gone through UTPNCM and can explin how it usualy works it would be much appreciated.

Thx.


----------



## MJP

acadieavs said:
			
		

> So i was wondering if anyone could help clarify something for me, when you get posted to your University are you IR or is it a cost move, or do you have to pay for the move yourself? Cause i can't really see myself being IR for 4 years 1000km away from my family and having to take on a demanding course with the added stress. If anyone has gone through UTPNCM and can explin how it usualy works it would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thx.



It is a posting like any other move, so the choice is yours.  You can go IR or you can do a cost move of your family.


----------



## dardt

Airman said:
			
		

> If you get your offer for AERE it will specify that you have to do either mech, electrical, computer, aero/aeronautical, or engineering physics. Gone is the option to do hard physics, math, space sciences, or software engineering.


I confirmed this on DWAN, under the ideal and acceptable degree listings for AERE. Since my degree (BSc Physics) is no longer listed, does this mean I could apply for AERE under UTPNCM and complete a B.Eng if accepted to the program ? I know a PSO would try to steer me towards a trade where my degree was a direct qualification (say under SCP), but am curious regardless.


----------



## acadieavs

Any utpncm vets out there that can tell me once i signed my offer how long till i get the info about what's to come, if i went NAV am I going to do the ACST (aircrew selection test) prior to comencing Universit ? kind of in the dark here


----------



## avstach

For anyone that has applied before and not gotten in, at what point did you stop obsessing and gave in to not getting accepted? Do you eventually get any notification on your denial?

Thanks


----------



## mizzenmast

avstach said:
			
		

> For anyone that has applied before and not gotten in, at what point did you stop obsessing and gave in to not getting accepted? Do you eventually get any notification on your denial?
> 
> Thanks



Hey Avstach,

I'm in the same boat you are, and while I am not an unsuccessful applicant (yet), I'd like to weigh in. Will knowing you didn't get in a month from now or a day from now change anything? I feel like I've wasted the last week worrying about something I can't change. Maybe I did not get in, maybe the person with an offer on the first "wave" will refuse and I'll get picked up. Until you see a message I think that we're all just worrying about something we can't have an effect on. 

Looking at last year the non-selection messages were released in mid June. I think until then you are equal parts possibly in and possibly out. I'm going to try and go back to life pre-application, if in June I don't get in then I'll be a dammed rockstar for next year, trust me. If I do get in between now and then I'll be surprised and of course proud to be selected. Either way until the end of June I can do SFA about what is going to happen. 

I'll still check this forum of course as a I am happy to see some of the folks I've been talking to for six months head off into the next phase of their careers, but at the end of it I'm done with the worry. It's far too late for me to do anything to change what is going to happen. I hope you can find some way to "cope" in the meantime as well. 

Mizzen.


----------



## Chernoble

mizzenmast said:
			
		

> Hey Avstach,
> 
> I'm in the same boat you are, and while I am not an unsuccessful applicant (yet), I'd like to weigh in. Will knowing you didn't get in a month from now or a day from now change anything? I feel like I've wasted the last week worrying about something I can't change. Maybe I did not get in, maybe the person with an offer on the first "wave" will refuse and I'll get picked up. Until you see a message I think that we're all just worrying about something we can't have an effect on.
> 
> Looking at last year the non-selection messages were released in mid June. I think until then you are equal parts possibly in and possibly out. I'm going to try and go back to life pre-application, if in June I don't get in then I'll be a dammed rockstar for next year, trust me. If I do get in between now and then I'll be surprised and of course proud to be selected. Either way until the end of June I can do SFA about what is going to happen.
> 
> I'll still check this forum of course as a I am happy to see some of the folks I've been talking to for six months head off into the next phase of their careers, but at the end of it I'm done with the worry. It's far too late for me to do anything to change what is going to happen. I hope you can find some way to "cope" in the meantime as well.
> 
> Mizzen.



Excellent advice.


----------



## newmet

Mizzenmast, great advice!  I have been moving ahead with my life as though I haven't gotten it.  I refuse to worry about something I can't change, I can just add more leverage to my next application . Meanwhile, in my real world, I have been offered a career course that is normally given to higher ranks than myself and so I will go on it and apply again, when I can.  I will probably not apply for next year as I will be at the school for my course and I don't want to be dealing with final EO's and the stresses of applying away from my CoC.  
Good luck to everyone who has been offered and those who are continuing to get offers.  I hope to join your ranks one day (I'd love for it to be this year but I am a realist and we will see how things shake out).


----------



## MARS2013

As Mom said:
			
		

> Anyone out there get an offer yet? BPSO said it might be late this year May timeframe.


I got mine 2 weeks ago for MARS. Sent in my offer acceptance yesterday.


----------



## InfO2013

I found out last week that I will be getting my offer, but at still waiting on my official offer, D Mil C confirmed to my PSO. I know they had a problem with the school choice (a college that grants degrees) so they didn't want to release a message yet. I have since gained entry to an actual university (Acadia), and should hopefully receive an offer soon.

I suppose the point of it is, don't be discouraged if you haven't got an offer yet. You just never know what's going to happen. I was actually slated for a posting to Germany, and have turned it down for this.


----------



## avstach

Offer came in just before noon on Friday. Got AERE. Will be headed to Carleton U in the fall for Mechanical Engineering. Looking forward to it!! Good luck to all those still waiting!


----------



## Airman

Congratulations. Do you know if it was a first or second round message. Either way see you at Carleton sometime in the Fall.


----------



## Airman

For all those that have been selected, have you been offered OJT in your future trades this Summer? As for myself, I have been offered no further information in regards to my summer employment besides knowing that my current position is going to be filled after I leave for school.


----------



## MJP

Airman said:
			
		

> For all those that have been selected, have you been offered OJT in your future trades this Summer? As for myself, I have been offered no further information in regards to my summer employment besides knowing that my current position is going to be filled after I leave for school.



It depends on your new trade.  If it is at base you are at then usually it isn't hard to do.  ULO offices on most bases are busy and it is in your best interest to find OJT yourself (of course telling the ULO office what you are doing).  If you let them do it for you you will probably end up doing something you didn't plan on or that has no bearing on your new trade.  

It also depends on how willing your new trades/environments is to pay for OJT if it means going somehere.  The RCAF had a fairly robust OJT plan for several of but not all of their trades in the years that I did school.   This may change in light of our fiscal restraint.

Best advice is find your own OJT, instead of standing around waiting to be told.


----------



## sidemount

Its been a few days since anyone has posted anything on here.

Anyone else received  any good news?


----------



## hotei

Yup, I was notified as of 1 May that I had been accepted for ARMD. OCdt effective 1 July, posting as of 15 July. Posted to Queen's. Tried for RMC, but in the end they (D Mil C) approved Queen's.


----------



## MeanJean

Congrats on your change of vocation!  Get ready for a real change in life style.  I just finished my first year in the program.  You will love it.


----------



## sidemount

hotei said:
			
		

> Yup, I was notified as of 1 May that I had been accepted for ARMD. OCdt effective 1 July, posting as of 15 July. Posted to Queen's. Tried for RMC, but in the end they (D Mil C) approved Queen's.



Congrats on the selection!


----------



## hotei

Yup, it is definitely going to be a big change from Comm Rsch!


----------



## sidemount

So I talked with the PSO here today....all first round messages are out, seconds to follow shortly if there are any.


----------



## avstach

Airman;

Not sure if I was first or second round. Have you decided what stream you are going? I will be in mechanical. See you in the fall!


----------



## Airman

avstach said:
			
		

> Airman;
> 
> Not sure if I was first or second round. Have you decided what stream you are going? I will be in mechanical. See you in the fall!



After some thought I decided on computer systems, which is certainly a new topic, especially considering my NDT background. Have fun until September.


----------



## thirdprophet

Bummer, no message for me.  Fingers crossed for second round selections, but I'm gonna move forward assuming I didn't get in this year and prep for next year's competition.


----------



## MeanJean

thirdprophet said:
			
		

> Bummer, no message for me.  Fingers crossed for second round selections, but I'm gonna move forward assuming I didn't get in this year and prep for next year's competition.



It is hard to wait for those messages.  It seems they are even later this year than last.  

If you are looking to prepare for next year's competition you may want to consider taking some courses relevant to your degree, either in the evenings or by correspondence.   You should be able to submit an Individual Learning Plan through your local PSO office and have the military cover the cost.  This way you have part of your degree started which should make you a more attractive candidate.

Good luck!


----------



## thirdprophet

Thanks, MeanJean.  I've been taking correspondence courses via ILP for the last four years or so (when not hampered by missions, exercises, and operational tempo) but I'll continue to build up my stack of courses to make myself more competitive.  I also seem to have applied to the most competitive (read: few positions, many candidates, e.g. Int O) trades, so I expected to have to keep trying a few times to break through.


----------



## Chernoble

thirdprophet said:
			
		

> Thanks, MeanJean.  I've been taking correspondence courses via ILP for the last four years or so (when not hampered by missions, exercises, and operational tempo) but I'll continue to build up my stack of courses to make myself more competitive.  I also seem to have applied to the most competitive (read: few positions, many candidates, e.g. Int O) trades, so I expected to have to keep trying a few times to break through.



I'm in the same boat here.  Applying for PSO seems to be pretty slim pickin's!  

Don't shoot the messenger but I called the Education and Commissioning Clerk at D Mil C yesterday and she told me that if I haven't recieved a message yet, to have good luck for next year's application.  Take 3 for me!


----------



## MeanJean

thirdprophet:  Looks like you have your professional development well in hand.  I am assuming this was not your first year applying for Int O.  I was lucky and got MSEO on my first year, slightly less competitive than Int O.

Chernoble:  Thanks for the update from D Mil C.  There is nothing worse than waiting.


----------



## thirdprophet

@MeanJean - This was my first year applying for UTPNCM, but I think I have a lot more insight on the process now thanks to a very patient and helpful BPSO who went through the process himself to become a PSO.  Since I can't change my CFAT or Personality Inventory, which I'm told is 2/3 of the overall score, I'll keep chipping away at the remaining 1/3 - university credits and leadership, and maybe try to get some more in-field experience if I can.  I'm a bit disappointed just because I'm being posted across the country this year, so when I apply again, it'll be with the backing of a CoC and CO who doesn't really know me or my work... but nothing I can do about that except work hard and keep trying!

Thanks all for this thread and the updates you've been posting on the process and messages - and congrats to all who got in this year!


----------



## sidemount

I believe you can rewrite your CFAT once during your military career. 

Gonna see my PSO here, get the pre-study package and try to boost my score. Might help out a bit.


----------



## thirdprophet

He did mention that, but when I asked about re-writing my CFAT, he laughed and said, "Don't worry about it."


----------



## sidemount

thirdprophet said:
			
		

> He did mention that, but when I asked about re-writing my CFAT, he laughed and said, "Don't worry about it."



I wonder how much weight it actually has in the competition


----------



## thirdprophet

I was told that the CFAT is one-third of the score, the personality inventory is one-third of the score, and the remainder is comprised of job knowledge/experience, leadership training/experience, and university credits (and how they apply to the ideal degree for the trade).  I'm sure that when it comes down to the final decision, it may not be quite as black-and-white as just looking at the score, but that's what I was told about how the process works.


----------



## EME101

thirdprophet said:
			
		

> I was told that the CFAT is one-third of the score, the personality inventory is one-third of the score, and the remainder is comprised of job knowledge/experience, leadership training/experience, and university credits (and how they apply to the ideal degree for the trade).  I'm sure that when it comes down to the final decision, it may not be quite as black-and-white as just looking at the score, but that's what I was told about how the process works.



When I switched, I was told the same percentages for the PSO score, but that the CO's recommendation counted for about 40%.  So those thirds may only account for 60% of the total weight when the boards sit.


----------



## Buddy336

Man this is killing me.  When I was asked back in February if I had any news yet I used to say I wasn't expecting anything before end of June, beginning of July but deep inside I thought it was going to be earlier than that !  Something struck me yesterday, what about those who are posted/moved to a different city to study.  When are they going to know or if that was the first batch of messages we saw end-April ?


----------



## Buddy336

Man the wait is killing me.  Just as question, what about those who are posted/moved to a different city to study.  When are they going to know or if that was the first batch of messages we saw end-April ?  What about noncompliance messages ?


----------



## mizzenmast

Buddy336 said:
			
		

> Man the wait is killing me.  Just as question, what about those who are posted/moved to a different city to study.  When are they going to know or if that was the first batch of messages we saw end-April ?  What about noncompliance messages ?



Hey Buddy, 

I talked to the PSO this week. I hate to tell you but according to him if you haven't seen a message by now you are probably not selected. Looks like non-selections went out in late July last year. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... 

Mizzen.


----------



## Buddy336

Sorry guys, I just got an answer back from DMCPG:
"I am sorry to say that all the offer messages have been sent out and members have accepted. We had to send out the posting messages before July 1st and now we are doing the non-selection messages. They will be sent out shortly."
Better luck next year I guess.


----------



## Airman

It seems that the non-selection messages are starting to arrive. Sorry to all those that didn't make it this year.


----------



## Airman

I was appointed to OCdt on the 1st of July, and will be doing OJT at RMC until the 15th of Aug. After Aug 15th it's off to Ottawa to clear in to ULO, leave, and finally to start my engineering program at Carleton on the 3rd of Sept. It's been a very long road to reach this point, but for those that didn't make it, or for future first time applicants, the process is doable. I found the one thing that helped me to achieve success was to research everthing possible about the UTPNCM process, as well as my trades of interest. As for the CFAT, there is not much that can be done. You are really only allowed a couple of attempts, and if you can't score high enough after taking the required amount of university courses for the UT program, you probally won't make it any way. Sorry to put down anybody, but after talking to plenty of PSO's over the years, most people that apply to the UT program normally score about average on the CFAT, and likely achieve the minimum amount required for their trades of interest. The only exceptions are normally the extra aptitude tests required for trades such as ACSO or Pilot. For those trades you really can't study enough to survive the physical and mental challenges that flying requires; you either have it or you don't. Personally I think you are more likely to achieve success in this program by both taking several University level courses, covering a wide breath of topics, and as many leadership based courses as you can possible be loaded on. As for OPME's, I haven't taken a single one, and from what I've seen they are a complete waste of time, unless your planning on going to RMC to study. As for those that have applied several times over the years, I would suggest changing your trades of choice, as the majority of applicants apply for Log O, PSO, and the least likely routes to success MPO and Int O. As for Pilot, the majority of applicants that make it into this trade fail out of pilot training after they complete their degrees. This means that if you don't have a degree such as engineering to fall back on, you better get comfortable with trades such as Infantry. I'm not making this up, I'm in the Air Force, I've seen plenty of Pilot candidates fail out of the program. Finally for candidates interested in IntO or MPO, unless you originated in either Int OP or MP before applying, the PSO interview phase is probably going to go miserably. Really there are plenty of UT applicants applying for these two trades that come from the NCM equivalent trades. This means that they have job related experience, which easily carries over into the equivalent officer trades. You would be surprised by how much that single fact sways the selection board. At last my rant comes to an end, hopefully this will help someone in the future.


----------



## j-rex

Good day everyone,

I just had a few questions pertaining to the "NCM to Officer" transition. 

I have been in the Canadian Forces for a little over four years now, I'm only twenty-four, so I'm still quite young, eager and exploring opportunities available to me in the CF. I am interested in eventually transitioning over from an "NCM" to an Officer, although, I recently heard that there have been several changes to some of the programs such as "UTP-NCM", as well what you can and can't be endorsed for when you submit an "ILP". 

At the moment, I am working as aircrew and I love every aspect of working on an operational aircraft. My ultimate goal would be to have a "MOC" transfer over to Pilot, so what are my best options at this point?

I was talking to a Pilot from my SQN, he does not have a Bachelor degree, although he is a fully-functional, working Pilot, flying on a day-to-day basis. From what I understood, he was taking some sort of program called "CEOTP"? He apparently has twelve years to attain a Bachelor degree, but he will be reimbursed by the CF upon successful completion. He must complete the degree on his own time too.

Are there programs that can only be taken if you're a civilian signing on into the Military? Such as: ROTP, CEOTP? Or are all of those programs and more offered to NCMs as well?

Thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## mariomike

This discussion is a bit dated ( 2009 ), but it may help.

NCM to Officer advancement  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/85134/post-829790.html#msg829790


----------



## The Bread Guy

mariomike said:
			
		

> This discussion is a bit dated ( 2009 ), but it may help.
> 
> NCM to Officer advancement
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/85134/post-829790.html#msg829790


All nice & merged.

j-rex:  Search is your friend - use it.
*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## DAA

Message is out.  See CANFORGEN 138/13 for details.


----------



## UnwiseCritic

Can you or someone post some of the details so I can get the broad idea of it. University courses are something I want to pursue this time around. I should be back in the army any day now, though they've been saying that for awhile now.


----------



## caocao

CANFORGEN 138/13 CMP 057/13 211154Z AUG 13
2014 UNIVERSITY TRAINING PLAN FOR NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS (UTPNCM) COMPETITION
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. CFAO 9-13 - UNIVERSITY TRAINING PLAN - NON COMMISSIONED MEMBERS (UTPNCM) 
B. HTTP://CMP-CPM.FORCES.MIL.CA/DGMC/ENGRAPH/ISS(UNDERSCORE)S(UNDERSCORE)UTPNCM(UNDERSCORE)E.ASP?OPENSUB(EQUAL SIGN)33 - DGMC UTPNCM WEBSITE 
C. HTTP://CMP-CPM.FORCES.MIL.CA/DGMP/DPGR/ENGRAPH/REPORTS/EDUSTD (UNDERSCORE)E.ASP?SEC(EQUAL SIGN)2(AT SIGN)CMPNT(EQUAL SIGN)REGF(AT SIGN)ORDER(EQUAL SIGN)MOSID(AT SIGN)SORT(EQUAL SIGN)ASC - MOSID ENTRY STANDARDS 
D. DAOD 5049-1 - OBLIGATORY SERVICE 
E. ADM(HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 05-05 - THE NEW CF REGULAR FORCE TERMS OF SERVICE 
F. HTTP://CMP-CPM.FORCES.MIL.CA/HEALTH-SANTE/PD/CFP-PFC-154/ AN-E-ENG.ASP - CFP 154 ANNEX E - MINIMUM MEDICAL STANDARDS FOR OFFICERS/NCMS 
G. DAOD 5023-2 - PHYSICAL FITNESS PROGRAM 
H. LFCO 24-02, PARA 13 - PHYSICAL FITNESS 
I. CFAO 11-6 - COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY - OFFICERS, REGULAR FORCE 
J. HTTP://CMP-CPM.FORCES.MIL.CA/HEALTH-SANTE/PD/POL/4000-21-ENG.ASP - PERIODIC AND OTHER HEALTH ASSESSMENTS - PERIODS OF VALIDITY 
K. CFAO 9-12 - REGULAR OFFICER TRAINING PLAN 



EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY THE 2014 UNIVERSITY TRAINING PLAN FOR NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS (UTPNCM) IS OPEN FOR COMPETITION IAW REF A. THE PURPOSE OF THE UTPNCM IS TO DEVELOP SELECTED CANDIDATES FOR SERVICE AS CAREER OFFICERS IN THE REGULAR FORCE (REG F). CANDIDATES SELECTED FOR THE UTPNCM WILL ATTEND RMC OR A CANADIAN UNIVERSITY 


THE FOLLOWING OCCUPATIONS ARE OPEN FOR THE 2014 UTPNCM COMPETITION (THE LIST IS SUBJ TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE DEPENDING ON SERVICE REQUIREMENTS): 


00178 ARMD 


00179 ARTY 


00180 INF 


00181 ENGR 


00182 ACSO 


00183 PLT 


00184 AEC 


00185 AERE 


00187 EME 


00189 CONST ENGR 


00189 CONST ENGR - FIRE PROTECTION SPECIALIST 


00192 HCA 


00194 PHARM 


00195 NURSE 


00207 MARS 


00208 PSEL 


00211 TDEV 


00213 INT 


00214 MPO 


00328 LOG 


00340 CELE AIR 


00341 SIGS 


00344 NCS ENG AND 


00345 MS ENG 


APPLICANTS FOR 00213 INT AND 00328 LOG WILL REMAIN IN THEIR CURRENT DEU UNLESS REASSIGNED BY DGMC 


APPLICANTS ARE ENCOURAGED TO APPLY TO BOTH RMC AND TO OTHER CANADIAN UNIVERSITIES. APPLICANTS ARE EXPECTED TO APPLY TO ACCREDITED CANADIAN UNIVERSITIES WITHIN THEIR GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION AND THAT OFFER PROGRAMS COMPATIBLE WITH THE MOSID ENTRY STANDARDS OUTLINED AT REF C. PREFERENCE WILL BE GIVEN TO AN ACADEMIC INSTITUTION IN THE GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION WHERE APPLICANTS ARE POSTED AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION. A LIST OF CANADIAN UNIVERSITIES IS AVAILABLE AT ANNEX B OF REF K. FINAL DECISION ON THE ACADEMIC INSTITUTION WILL BE MADE BY DMCPG 5 


ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA: 


THE UTPNCM ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA ARE OUTLINED AT REFS A AND B. GIVEN THE PURPOSE OF THE UTPNCM, THE CO S COMMENTS SHOULD EMPHASIZE THE OFFICER POTENTIAL OF CANDIDATES WRT THEIR LEADERSHIP ABILITY AND OFFICER-LIKE QUALITIES 


RANK. AN APPLICANT MUST BE OF CPL RANK (SUBSTANTIVE) OR ABOVE BY 13 DEC 13, CLOSING DATE OF THE COMPETITION. CPL RANK (SUBSTANTIVE) REFERS TO A MEMBER WHO HOLDS THE RANK OF CPL AND HAS COMPLETED QL5 OR THE EQUIVALENT APPROPRIATE QUALIFYING COURSE FOR THEIR MOSID 


MEDICAL CATEGORY. APPLICANTS MUST HAVE A CURRENT VALID MEDICAL CATEGORY IAW REF J AND POSSESS THE REQUIRED MEDICAL PROFILE FOR THEIR TARGET MILITARY OCCUPATION, AS PER REF F 


FITNESS. AS PER REFS G AND H, THE APPLICANTS MUST HAVE A VALID ANNUAL PHYSICAL FITNESS EVALUATION WITH A PASS OR INCENTIVE EXEMPT RESULT 


ACADEMIC PROGRAM STANDARDS. MOSID ENTRY STANDARDS OUTLINED AT REF C WILL BE STRICTLY ADHERED TO. WHERE THE UTPNCM ENTRY STANDARD REFERS TO A DEO STANDARD, ONLY THOSE ACADEMIC PROGRAMS CONSIDERED IDEAL (OR PREFERRED) WILL BE SUPPORTED. DISTANCE LEARNING PROGRAMS ARE NOT ACCEPTED 


ACADEMIC ELIGIBILITY 

(1) MEMBERS COMPLETING THEIR FINAL COURSES IN DEC 13 SO AS TO MEET ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS MAY APPLY TO THE UTPNCM PROGRAM ON CONDITION THAT THEY PROVIDE PROOF OF SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THOSE COURSES TO DMCPG 5-2 NLT 30 JAN 14 

(2) PROOF OF UNIVERSITY TRANSFER CREDIT(S) AWARDED BY EACH UNIVERSITY APPLIED TO MUST BE PROVIDED BY 30 JAN 14, VICE 1 JAN OF THE COMPETITION YEAR AS OUTLINED IN REF A PARA 7G 

(3) ONLY THE FOLLOWING OPME COURSES MAY BE CREDITED TOWARDS MEETING MINIMUM ACADEMIC ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS: 
(A) HIE 208 - CANADIAN MILITARY HISTORY: A STUDY OF WAR AND MILITARY HISTORY 1867 TO THE PRESENT 

(B) POE 206 - THE CANADIAN FORCES AND MODERN SOCIETY: CIVICS, POLITICS AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS 

(C) HIE 275 - SURVEY OF TECHNOLOGY, SOCIETY AND WARFARE, AND 

(D) PSE 402 - LEADERSHIP AND ETHICS 

(4) MEMBERS MAY SUBMIT AN APPLICATION TO THE UTPNCM WITH ONE OF THE THREE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS: A. LETTER OF UNCONDITIONAL UNIVERSITY ACCEPTANCE B. LETTER OF ADMISSIBILITY OR C. PROOF OF APPLICATION FROM EACH UNIVERSITY (SHOWING THE SPECIFIC DEGREE PROGRAM) APPLIED TO FOR EACH MOSID THE MEMBER WISHES TO BE CONSIDERED FOR UNDER THE UTPNCM. IF LETTERS OF UNCONDITIONAL UNIVERSITY ACCEPTANCE ARE NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION, THEY MUST BE SENT DIRECTLY TO DMCPG 5-2 NO LATER THAN 1 JUL 14 



IT IS IMPORTANT THAT INFORMATION PROVIDED ON THE APPLICATION FORM (REF B) BE INCLUSIVE AND PRECISE. APPLICANTS MUST INDICATE THE PREFERRED UNIVERSITY, SPECIFIC DEGREE PROGRAM, AND NUMBER OF YEARS IT IS EXPECTED TO TAKE TO COMPLETE THE DEGREE FOR EACH MOSID CHOICE 


WAIVERS. REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT PREVIOUS WAIVERS WERE GRANTED, AN APPLICANT ALREADY POSSESSING A DEGREE THAT IS NOT SUITABLE FOR ANY OF THE CHOSEN MOSIDS MUST REQUEST AND INITIATE AN ACADEMIC REQUIREMENTS WAIVER THROUGH THEIR LOCAL PSO OFFICE SO AS TO BE CONSIDERED ELIGIBLE FOR THIS YEAR S COMPETITION 


OBLIGATORY SERVICE (OS). IAW REF D, A MEMBER IS NOT NORMALLY PERMITTED TO INCUR MORE OS PRIOR TO COMPLETION OF ANOTHER PERIOD OF OS. ANY EXCEPTION WILL REQUIRE APPROVAL FROM DGMC. IN SUCH CASES, THE NEW PERIOD OF OS WILL BE ADDED TO THE UNEXPIRED PORTION OF THE PREVIOUS PERIOD OF OS. THE TWO PERIODS WILL BE SERVED CONSECUTIVELY AND IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE INCURRED 


OTHER MOSID SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS MAY INCLUDE: 

(1) ALL APPLICANTS MUST HAVE COMPLETED MEDICAL BASE-LEVEL SCREENING AT PARA 3 OF THE APPLICATION FORM AT REF B. ALTHOUGH APPLICANTS FROM MOSIDS 00182 ACSO, 00183 PLT, AND 00184 AEC MAY NOT YET HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED THE FINAL AIR FACTOR BY THE CANADIAN FORCES ENVIRONMENTAL MEDICINE ESTABLISHMENT (CFEME), MEDICAL STAFF MUST INDICATE WHETHER THE APPLICANT HAS PASSED THE BASE-LEVEL AIRCREW MEDICAL SCREENING. FOR THOSE APPLICANTS, UNITS MUST ENSURE THEIR DULY COMPLETED MEDICAL FILE, ALONG WITH THE CF 2088, TESTS AND ANNOTATED DOCUMENTS, ARE COURIERED TO THE CANADIAN FORCES ENVIRONMENTAL MEDICINE ESTABLISHMENT (CFEME) TORONTO/AEROSPACE AND UNDERSEA MEDICAL BOARD (AUMB) FOR PROCESSING. FURTHER DETAILS CAN BE OBTAINED BY CONTACTING CFEME TORONTO (CSN) 634-2017 OR (COMM) 416-635-2017 

(2) APPLICANTS FOR MOSID 00182 ACSO MUST SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETE THE AIRCREW SELECTION TEST SERIES (ACSO PORTION) ADMINISTERED BY THE LOCAL PSO OFFICE (3) FINAL SELECTION OF MOSID 00183 PLT CANDIDATES WILL BE SUBJECT TO SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF ASC AT THE CANADIAN FORCES AIRCREW SELECTION CENTRE (CFASC) AND FURTHER MEDICAL PROCESSING AT CFEME TORONTO. REQUESTS CONCERNING ASC COURSE LOADING WILL BE DIRECTED BY DMCPG 5-2 

(4) FINAL SELECTION OF MOSID 00184 AEC CANDIDATES WILL BE SUBJECT TO SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF AEC TESTING AT THE CFASC AND FURTHER MEDICAL PROCESSING AT CFEME TORONTO. REQUESTS CONCERNING AEC COURSE LOADING WILL BE DIRECTED TO DMCPG 5-2, AND 

(5) FINAL SELECTION OF 00214 MPO NOMINEES WILL BE SUBJECT TO SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THE MILITARY POLICE OFFICER ASSESSMENT CENTRE (MPOAC). REQUESTS CONCERNING MPOAC COURSE LOADING WILL BE DIRECTED BY DMCPG 5-2. REFERENCES AND CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK FOR 00214 MPO ARE NOT REQUIRED 


DULY COMPLETED UTPNCM APPLICATIONS ARE TO BE RECEIVED AT DMCPG 5-2 (FORMERLY D MIL C 7) NLT 13 DEC 13 IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE 2014 UTPNCM COMPETITION. APPLICATIONS RECEIVED AFTER THIS DATE WILL BE RETURNED TO UNITS. AN APPLICATION WILL BE CONSIDERED DULY COMPLETED IF IT INCLUDES ALL THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS: 

(1) DULY COMPLETED UTPNCM APPLICATION FORM (REF B), INCLUDING CO S LETTER OF RECOMMENDATION IN PART 4 OR ON A SEPARATE COVERING LETTER 

(2) COMPLETED STATEMENT OF UNDERSTANDING (DND2830 AT REF B) 

(3) DND 2790 SELECTION ASSESSMENT REPORT 

(4) UPDATED COPY OF MPRR INCLUDING FITNESS RESULTS 

(5) ALL TRANSCRIPTS (HIGH SCHOOL AND POST-SECONDARY), PROOF OF UNIVERSITY TRANSFER CREDIT(S) AWARDED AND PROOF OF COURSE(S) IN PROGRESS 

(6) LETTER OF UNCONDITIONAL UNIVERSITY ACCEPTANCE, LETTER OF ADMISSIBILITY, OR PROOF OF APPLICATION FROM EACH UNIVERSITY (SHOWING THE SPECIFIC DEGREE PROGRAM) APPLIED TO - FOR EACH MOSID THE MEMBER WISHES TO BE CONSIDERED FOR UNDER THE UTPNCM AND 

(7) UNITS ARE TO INFORM NDHQ DGMC OTTAWA//D MIL C (MEMBER S CAREER MANAGER)// BY MSG, FAX OR E-MAIL WHEN A UTPNCM APPLICATION HAS BEEN DISPATCHED TO DMCPG 5-2 


INITIAL OFFERS FOR SUCCESSFUL APPLICANTS SHOULD COMMENCE IN FEB 14. INQUIRIES ON ACTIVE FILES WILL NOT BE ENTERTAINED UNTIL MAY 14. SUCH REQUESTS MUST GO THROUGH THE UNIT CHAIN OF COMMAND 


UNITS/APPLICANTS ARE TO CONTACT THEIR LOCAL PSO OFFICE FOR ALL INQUIRIES. ONLY LOCAL PSO STAFF ARE AUTHORIZED TO CONTACT DMCPG 5-2 STAFF REGARDING POLICY AND SELECTION MATTERS


----------



## UnwiseCritic

Thanks


----------



## vanheusen

Hi all
I am applying for a UTPNCM. The problem is, that I only want to get into one trade, and this is because of the university program that I am taking.
No other MOSIDs accepts my study, only the INTO, INFO, ARTY, and ARMD
None of those appeal to me, except for the INTO.
Can I only put in my application the INTO?
Can I turn down other MOSIDs if I was offered any?

Thank you


----------



## George Wallace

I would suggest you research more.

Yes, can only make one choice if that is all you want.  (INT O would not be a good choice if that is the only one you want to make.)

Yes, you can turn down an offer.


READ


Topic locked.


----------



## dardt

It's that time of year again. UTPNCM competition messages are out, applications are going in. This is a good forum to share your thoughts, news and plans relating to the program. Personally, I plan on submitting an application for AERE & PSEL (with Concordia as my preferred university). Good luck to all with your applications.


----------



## stoker35

FYI - UTPNCM offers are out, got mine 2 days ago !  Keep your eyes open !

Good luck to all !


----------



## Edward Campbell

Well done to you, stoker35, and best of luck with your future.


----------



## MJP

stoker35 said:
			
		

> FYI - UTPNCM offers are out, got mine 2 days ago !  Keep your eyes open !
> 
> Good luck to all !



Congrats.   Good to see they are getting the messages out earlier than the previous years.


----------



## stoker35

Thanks guys !


----------



## stokerwes

Congratulations and good luck.


----------



## Deleted member 585

Congrats stoker35!  I got my offer on 4 Apr.


----------



## stoker35

SynapticHammer said:
			
		

> Congrats stoker35!  I got my offer on 4 Apr.



Congratulations, SynapticHammer !  Good luck in your new career !


----------



## Griffon

Welcome to the greatest opportunity in your CAF careers.  Good luck to both of you!


----------



## TChuki

Hello all,
This was a very insightful discussion on this topic. 
I didn’t think that it would be wise and appropriate to open a new topic so I’ll post my question/comment here. 

One of my intermediate goals is to be accepted into UTPNCM program. I have 7 years in and I am not competitive enough. I am looking to PM with someone that has gone thought this process recently…possibly to follow-up a few times, as a possible mentor. This would be a 2-3 year plan for me. I realize that there is PSO, I just thought that this may be more practical and personable. 

Thank you.


----------



## As Mom

Any offers out there yet?


----------



## MJP

As Mom said:
			
		

> Any offers out there yet?



Yes, there was a post a few days week or so ago.


----------



## As Mom

Where was the post? Not in this one, last post was someone asking about applying a week ago and before that last post was last year when the Canforgen came out. Was in a different topic?


----------



## Chernoble

I think he is refering to this topic:

https://army.ca/forums/threads/114640.0


----------



## hotei

I thought I would bring this up: as far as the weighting goes I have my doubts. I was a Signals trade before, and my recruiter told me she only recommended me for one trade (int) as I had done it previously, and that she would NOT recommend me of the other trades selected (ARMD, ARTY) That being said my CO's letter recommended me for MOSID 00178 (ARMD) and I was given an offer, despite the PSO's recommendation. Just FYI!



			
				thirdprophet said:
			
		

> I was told that the CFAT is one-third of the score, the personality inventory is one-third of the score, and the remainder is comprised of job knowledge/experience, leadership training/experience, and university credits (and how they apply to the ideal degree for the trade).  I'm sure that when it comes down to the final decision, it may not be quite as black-and-white as just looking at the score, but that's what I was told about how the process works.


----------



## Klinkaroo

Got mine on the 29th of April, headed to Civy U in August.


----------



## MeanJean

So there I was, starting my claims at the ULO Office for my third year of Mechanical Engineering, and I heard that there were changes in the regulations for the commissioning of UTPNCMs.  When I signed up for it my offer/message stated that I would be commissioned to the rank of S/Alt and then simultaneously promoted to Slt, as I was a MS with PLQ.  The regulations at the time stated this and so did the SEM guide (not an official document).  The SEM guide for 2013/14 academic year stated this as well.  I just got my hands on the guide for this year and it now states:



> If you are in the UTPNCM program and your former rank was Sergeant/Petty Officer Second Class or below, you will be commissioned in the rank of Second Lieutenant/Acting Sub Lieutenant upon graduation and having successfully completed BMOQ.  If your former rank was Warrant Officer/Petty Officer First Class or above, you will be commissioned to the rank of Second Lieutenant/Acting Sub Lieutenant, and will then be simultaneously promoted to the rank of Lieutenant/Sub Lieutenant effective the date of commissioning.



Being a MS with Spec 1, I will max out the A/Slt pay scale in a few years but I know that PO2's may not have that luxury.  I would have had to spend three years as a Slt before eligibility for promotion to Lt(N), being an A/Slt probably will not hamper or delay my progression in training.   What gets me is that I find out from another member about the change buried in a lengthy document.  Nothing was circulated about these changes either.  The plan is to file a grievance.

On a final note, from the rumors I have heard (everyone loves rumors) some graduates from this spring who were supposed to be promoted to Slt and they were not.  They also filed a grievance and had it denied.  Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as I am and if they have any experiences on this subject they would like to share.


----------



## Melbatoast

I got my commissioning message a couple of weeks ago and still says simultaneous promotion to 1Lt. 

"5.  PROMOTED IMMEDIATELY TO LT. AUTH PAY UNDER PROVISION OF CBI
204.211 PARA(4) AND REF E"

Ref E is CBI 204.09, though those are pay documents. There would have to have been something superseding policies in CFAO 11-6 for this change I think? 

Still waiting to submit my final marks to CDA but this is the first I've heard.


----------



## MeanJean

Congratulations on your commission, Melbatoast!  

I think I will have to do some digging into the CFAOs and DAODs.  There is a DAOD 5002 pertaining to UTPNCM that has yet to be published.  I wonder if that has something to do with it.


----------



## Transporter

MeanJean said:
			
		

> Congratulations on your commission, Melbatoast!
> 
> I think I will have to do some digging into the CFAOs and DAODs.  There is a DAOD 5002 pertaining to UTPNCM that has yet to be published.  I wonder if that has something to do with it.



Back when I was a Lt many years ago, you could go to QR&Os and/or CFAOs and find an answer to pretty much anything. Nowadays, "the regs" are a f****** disaster. Best of luck with your search, but if this is a recent change, it'll probably be years before CFAOs and/or DAODs are updated.


----------



## Monsoon

MeanJean said:
			
		

> Congratulations on your commission, Melbatoast!
> 
> I think I will have to do some digging into the CFAOs and DAODs.  There is a DAOD 5002 pertaining to UTPNCM that has yet to be published.  I wonder if that has something to do with it.


FWIW (and agreeing completely with Transporter about the state of the regulations), my understanding was that MS who take UTPNCM are only automatically promoted to Slt (i.e. given treatment similar to CFR) if they are _qualified_ for promotion to PO2: i.e. if you have the time in rank and course requirements for promotion to PO2, but are lacking only promotion selection to PO2.


----------



## Melbatoast

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> FWIW (and agreeing completely with Transporter about the state of the regulations), my understanding was that MS who take UTPNCM are only automatically promoted to Slt (i.e. given treatment similar to CFR) if they are _qualified_ for promotion to PO2: i.e. if you have the time in rank and course requirements for promotion to PO2, but are lacking only promotion selection to PO2.



I don't believe that was the case - my CoC pushed to get me promoted to PO2 (substantive) before entering the programme in order to get the 1Lt on grad, but on closer inspection I never found any stated requirement beyond substantive MS/MCpl. Definitely agree on the mess of regulations.


----------



## luke_l

The RMC UTPNCM crowd have always gotten Lt from the MCpl rank.  I can say for certain that people in that situation last May all got the simultaneous promotion to Lt, even those with a very new promotion to MCpl prior to selection


----------



## ModlrMike

My understanding, and I could be wrong is:

PLQ or JLC = 2Lt / ASLt
ILQ or SLC = Lt / SLt
ALQ or MWO/CWO = Capt / Lt(N)



*changed to reflect the observation in the post below.


----------



## PuckChaser

I think you just have ILQ and ALQ reversed, but that's my understanding as well.


----------



## Shamrock

I believe other officer generation programs have encountered similar pain.  SCP for MP do not get the simultaneous promotion to Lt, either but I believe DEO do.


----------



## Melbatoast

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> My understanding, and I could be wrong is:
> 
> PLQ or JLC = 2Lt / ASLt
> ILQ or SLC = Lt / SLt
> ALQ or MWO/CWO = Capt / Lt(N)
> 
> 
> 
> *changed to reflect the observation in the post below.



This is not correct per CFAO 11-6 which to my knowledge has yet to be superseded. MS/PO2 in UTPNCM receive simultaneous promotion to Lt. The new student guide references an unpublished DAOD, 5200.


----------



## MeanJean

I dropped by the BPSO office today to do some digging into the CFAOs.  I found out some interesting things...

1) CFAO 11-6 Annex A Para 13 states that UTPMs who have the appointment of MC or hold the rank of Sgt or above will be commissioned to the rank of Lt/Slt.  

2) CFAOs are being phased out and will be superceded by the DAODs.  Pertaining to UTPNCM, DAOD 5002-7 has not yet been published but when it does, it will modify the commissioning directions for UTPs.

So some one jumped the "editing" gun and modified this in the SEM guide to reflect future policies.  As for the "stories" of personnel not getting promoted as they should... the CAF rumor mill at its finest.  I got to see the email that will be circulated shortly to the UTPs, stating to disregard the section in the guide on commissioning.   

Looks like I, and the other MS/PO2s in the UTPNCM program, will be getting our simultaneous promotions to Slt after all!

Thanks, everyone for weighing in on this!


----------



## Melbatoast

Excellent news. It makes sense that those enrolled under the CFAO would be grandfathered, though I suppose it remains to be seen how far back. Thanks for clearing it up.


----------



## PuckChaser

Sigs is getting better, but we're still forced to promote A/L as there's just not enough spots on course. I did see a Cpl loaded on his DL prior to promotion, which is a step in the right direction. Almost guarantees PLQ in a year after promotion. At least that's a workable timeline.


----------



## George Wallace

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Sigs is getting better, but we're still forced to promote A/L as there's just not enough spots on course. I did see a Cpl loaded on his DL prior to promotion, which is a step in the right direction. Almost guarantees PLQ in a year after promotion. At least that's a workable timeline.



That is pure BS.  You are placing inexperienced leaders into leadership positions with no trg.


EDIT to add:



I have seen several worse case scenarios of this practice in the RMS Trade where they will promote a Cpl to MCpl without the PLQ and make them a Chief Clerk in a unit.  Not only do they not have the leadership training, they are often not experienced enough to be placed in a CC position.  That is effectively setting that person/those persons up for FAILURE.


----------



## hotei

George, I am going to have to disagree very firmly in both cases.

WARNING: ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE TO FOLLOW

On one hand, I have seen several clerks who progressed to chief clerk, as you stated, who have been phenomenal clerks and who made sure you were entitled to everything you were entitled to, and double-checked your file religiously to ensure you weren't being screwed. All of these clerks were advanced promoted from cpl by the unit.

Likewise, as I came from a trade that is notorious for promoting without quals due to the backlog, and the requirement for jr and Snr NCM/Os. We had people waiting the full two years just to be loaded on their PLQ, despite their desire to be course loaded ASAP.


----------



## captloadie

I think you miss George's point. What you described in your anecdotal evidence should be the bare minimum of how all RMS clerks perform their duties. This does not mean they can progress to be excellent supervisors or Chief Clerks. I have some amazing MSE Op Cpls who can do amazing things with their vehicles, but they have no real aptitude to lead. Sure, they are great at teaching the new guys the tricks of the trade, but they are unable to deal with the administrative/disciplinary issues that greater rank requires.


----------



## sidemount

There are people across the forces (both NCM and Officer) that have no business being in a leadership role. Yet the Army will put them in that position...setting up to fail....yep pretty much....but all that ever happens is that person gets moved around and sometimes put in a place where they can do the least damage (right in the middle of this with a Sgt right now)

Becoming a leader is a fundamental transformation as a person. Its not taught, it is learned.

The amount of people within the army (that's where all my experience is from) that don't want to be a leader, just want to be in control and don't know the difference between the 2 is not good.

And I'm sorry, PLQ really? Some distant learning on military ethos and a few weeks of the 16 steps of battle procedure does NOT teach some one to be a leader. 

I tell ya, it was some experience on PLQ being taught some things by a junior officer that was fresh of phase training and had never been in command of troops.......well done "Leadership" school.


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

So it says you need either 

A) Letter of unconditional acceptance
B) Letter of eligibility
C) Proof of application from each university (showing the specific degree program) applied to for each MOS ID the member wishes to be considered for under UTPNCM.

I understand A and C but what is B?  and who would you get it from?


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

anything? anyone?

Called BPSOs and they weren't helpful, didn't even know deadlines or anything


----------



## DAA

MrBlue said:
			
		

> So it says you need either
> 
> A) Letter of unconditional acceptance
> B) Letter of eligibility
> C) Proof of application from each university (showing the specific degree program) applied to for each MOS ID the member wishes to be considered for under UTPNCM.
> 
> I understand A and C but what is B?  and who would you get it from?



Sure, let me take a kick at this one!

Are you sure you are reading that correctly and that is doesn't state "Letter of Admissibility"???  Which form/location/etc are you seeing the information on or at?

I'm thinking "typo" on the form itself or they are probably meaning "Proof of Eligibility for Admission" or something similar.


----------



## sidemount

This is right from the canforgen

4) MEMBERS MAY SUBMIT AN APPLICATION TO THE UTPNCM WITH ONE OF THE THREE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS: A. LETTER OF UNCONDITIONAL UNIVERSITY ACCEPTANCE B. LETTER OF ELIGIBILITY C. PROOF OF APPLICATION FROM EACH UNIVERSITY (SHOWING THE SPECIFIC DEGREE PROGRAM) APPLIED TO FOR EACH MOS ID THE MEMBER WISHES TO BE CONSIDERED FOR UNDER THE UTPNCM. IF LETTERS OF UNCONDITIONAL UNIVERSITY ACCEPTANCE ARE NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION, THEY MUST BE SENT DIRECTLY TO DMCPG 5-2 NO LATER THAN 1 JUL 15 

and then here

LETTER OF UNCONDITIONAL UNIVERSITY ACCEPTANCE, LETTER OF ADMISSIBILITY, OR PROOF OF APPLICATION FROM EACH UNIVERSITY THAT SPECIFIESS THE DEGREE PROGRAM CORRESPONDING TO EACH MOS ID THAT THE MEMBER WISHES TO BE CONSIDERED FOR UNDER THE UTPNCM,

So it could be a typo.....either way im waiting on University of Ottawa about the admissibility since application for the fall 2015 isn't open until mid september and applications have to be to the BPSO here in Pet by 12 October......not much time at all to get things put together.


----------



## Shad4now

Can anyone confirm if I should have received the "non-selection" message by now?
Thanks


----------



## sidemount

you should have received your non selction message by latest july timeframe.

Contact your local PSO....they will have it.


----------



## sidemount

FWIW University of Ottawa would not do a letter of admissability or eligability.....

Guess I have to wait until OUAC opens for fall 2015 semester.




is it just me or does this years competition seem like its on a very tight timeline?


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

I am applying to Carleton and UofO.

My understanding is that you can provide proof of your application for each program you applied for and that will suffice.

I was just wondering what the letter of eligibility was in case it was the easiest to obtain.

how did you get the deadlines for the PSO?  I called and they didn't know


----------



## sidemount

I was in to see the PSO here in Pet on tuesday, He gave me the deadline for applications, he had mentioned mid october (said the day but I can't recall it....it was just sooner than I expected), since they have to be in Ottawa for November.

I will be applying to UofO as well, but was hoping the eligibility letter would be easier so I could get the paperwork submitted nowish.
But I will have to wait until OUAC opens for the fall2015 semester to apply. (hoping that is next week)


----------



## Biggoals2bdone

You would think that the CAF would maybe change their dates considering the whole dilemma of you can't apply for the proper year until about 3 weeks before deadline...


----------



## MJP

MrBlue said:
			
		

> You would think that the CAF would maybe change their dates considering the whole dilemma of you can't apply for the proper year until about 3 weeks before deadline...



Thousands of people have done UTPNCM with roughly the same dates and seemed to have been ableo solve the problem.  First and foremost you are applying for an officer production programme.   One would hope that those hoping to become an officer within the forces would show a bit of ingenuity in solving issues.  

One might for example apply to the universities they want in the semesters before the application is due for UTPNCM.   Then once accepted defer enrollment in classes until they accepted into UTPNCM.

The dates will never be perfect.   In previous year the dates were later however it caused issues when it came to postings the following summer.   Applicants should be doning their research looking at potential pitfalls and trying to mitigate it.


----------



## hotei

MrBlue said:
			
		

> So it says you need either
> 
> A) Letter of unconditional acceptance
> *B) Letter of eligibility*
> C) Proof of application from each university (showing the specific degree program) applied to for each MOS ID the member wishes to be considered for under UTPNCM.
> 
> I understand A and C but what is B?  and who would you get it from?



This is something I encountered with RMC, but nowhere else. Basically, when you fill out your application form, and you put in an application to RMC, RMC assesses your eligibility/admissibility. The paperwork you receive is more than "proof of application," since it is given after you apply, but is less than an unconditional offer of acceptance. It basically says, " yeah, you meet our entry requirements, we CAN accept you."


----------



## MeanJean

I am currently in the UTPNCM program and I am not too sure on the letter of eligibility but you will eventually need a letter of unconditional acceptance. This is my take on the situation:

When applying for the UTPNCM program, you just need to have your application into the universities and then you can provide "proof of application".  Your UTPNCM application will go through the process and then in the spring you will get either a letter of selection or non-selection.  There are lots of members who are taking university courses in the fall semester when they are applying to UTPNCM program in order to meet the requirements.  Marks do not come in until after Christmas and then they are forwarded to the university that you applied to for consideration.  That was the case for me.  

By the sounds of it, you have already met all of the other requirements for the UTPNCM program and all you have to do is get your application into the universities, provide your proof of application, wait for your university application to be processed and then get the results to the BPSO and DMCPG 5-2 by 1 Jul 15.  I recommend getting the letter in as soon as possible.



> 4) ... IF LETTERS OF UNCONDITIONAL UNIVERSITY ACCEPTANCE ARE NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION, THEY MUST BE SENT DIRECTLY TO DMCPG 5-2 NO LATER THAN 1 JUL 15



So as you see, you will need a letter of unconditional acceptance at the end of it.

If the university is not taking applications for the fall, apply for the winter semester and then have it deferred.  If you are a keener, you could submit an ILP and take a course in the winter to get a jump start on your degree.  This could work to your advantage if you are not selected this year as it will show initiative and academic aptitude on your part.  If you don't want to or cannot take courses in the winter, you can always defer your application.

So to answer the OP's original question: what is a letter of eligibility? No idea but it may be easier to get the proof of application.

As far as deadlines go... They aren't too bad to meet as long as you do not decide to apply at the end of the summer.  This time of year is pretty crazy at the universities.


----------



## sidemount

The problem is you can't even apply to other university's in Ontario yet for the fall 2015 semester. I've never thought of the deferring your start date, that's an option I guess

I have proof of application to RMC....that's no problem, they are geared towards the program a bit. Just need UofO and in goes the paperwork....the good thing I guess is, my CoC is expecting and waiting for it.


----------



## seadog70

Mornin guys an gals, have a quick question. I'm looking at applying for the UTPNCM in a year or two, and in the meantime I'm going to be taking some university courses since it was recommended to do so. It would appear obvious that taking a course with an interest in your degree of choice would make sense, but can anyone shed a little light here? How useful is the Canadian Military History course ( for example), if you are not going to be teaching or researching that aspect? I'm more interested in taking courses that are useful down the road vs what I might find interesting at the moment. Sorry, its kinda a vague question I know, but any input anyone has I'll take a look at.
 Thanks


----------



## sidemount

It may be useful to take courses that you find interesting right now to help decide your Degree path. I know I really enjoyed commerce courses yet my plan was to take a science degree. 

Also don't forget, the course may fill in an elective that may be required for your degree.


----------



## seadog70

ok , sidemount, that kinda falls in with what my PSO said, it didn't "really" matter what course I took, but she did mention about how the course would fit in with the degree path, and the fact that it may fill an elective , thanks for the input.


----------



## sidemount

For those applying to UTPNCM, what did you use as proof of application when using OUAC....doesn't really give much after you pay...


----------



## sidemount

Quiet on the UTPNCM front

Who has applied this year?

I rewrote the CFAT and really upped my score before applying, hope to increase my chances this year seeing as how its worth 30% of the score that the PSO calculates.

Application is in for;

Pilot
ACSO
EME


----------



## hotei

According to the Kingston PSO's office is there have been a record number of applications to the UTP programme. They even suspended VOT-U because of it (at least according to them).


----------



## wolot

I sure hope I get it.... It is my first year applying. I will be following this thread very closely.


----------



## sidemount

hotei said:
			
		

> According to the Kingston PSO's office is there have been a record number of applications to the UTP programme. They even suspended VOT-U because of it (at least according to them).



I would assume that is their local office.....total in Canada would be hard to judge until they are all in Ottawa


----------



## Offstar1029

I'm currently going through the recruiting process to join the military as a NCM I would like to at some point try to become an officer. I've done some research on it and have some information but one thing I was never clear about is what is required to become an officer like an Infantry officer. Tons of sources say that any degree can do for being an Infantry officer but I want to know what that warrants would an associates degree in a field qualify as a degree for being an officer or would the degree have to be a bachelor degree or higher? I've looked in many places but haven't found that information anywhere all I've found was a degree in any field would work but nothing on the minimum degree.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Upgrading??


----------



## Offstar1029

Upgrading was the first word that came to mind move up I guess maybe advancement would be better or transfer? Whatever word you want to use for being a NCM and after sometime change to being an officer.


----------



## The_Falcon

http://army.ca/forums/index.php/board,44.0.html

7 pages worth of information, start reading.


And since this is a question regarding an occupational transfer after you are in, and not a recruiting topic,  this topic is locked


----------



## AuthenticTshirt

I understand that in UTP-NCM the member stays at the pay scale they were at when they were NCM until they graduate. 

Question I have is, as an AVS tech, would I receive my spec 1 level pay in the UTM-NCM program?


----------



## Melbatoast

Yes. "Pay level and trade group" or words to that effect, are retained through school (plus IPC bumps). Trade group is basic, spec 1 or 2. You then get a raise upon commissioning, the mechanics of which are a little weird, until you eventually hit the IPC of your officer occupation that surpasses it.


----------



## vroom

I had a package put in for 2015 UTPNCM. In Ontario you apply to University through the OUAC website, and yes the 2015 session was not open until mid September. Proof of application to University is all that is needed in the initial package. 

Then, once you are accepted to University, you forward that letter to (in my case) my supervisor. I currently have an offer to attend full time, but obviously will wait until I get a decision from the Forces. I also have courses in progress for which transcripts are needed NLT July to determine transfer credit eligibility. 

Here is the sequence that I've gone through so far:
-Submit memo stating your intentions to apply for UTPNCM.
-Interview with chain of command.
-Lots of paperwork done by many people (the least of which was myself). They play a huge role in your package submission - critical even.
-Interview with the BPSO to determine your suitability as an officer.
-Package sent to Ottawa and reviewed by board.


----------



## wolot

Has anyone got their offer yet?


----------



## sidemount

Id be amazed if first round of offers are out by april


----------



## Castus

I was told not to expect things before May, realistically speaking. Crossing fingers.


----------



## hotei

If I recall correctly, it is 31 May that is the last day for the messages to be cut (or the last weekday, obviously).



			
				Castus said:
			
		

> I was told not to expect things before May, realistically speaking. Crossing fingers.


----------



## mizzenmast

Mine was released (along with many of my fellow Ut's from last year) in the first week of April. Same story the year before (when I did not get a message). If you are waiting, it's almost over. The OP was right, end May is the absolute end of messages.


----------



## 277to081

I have reason to believe that the board should have sat by now. Hopefully we start to hear some news soon.


----------



## Castus

277to081 said:
			
		

> I have reason to believe that the board should have sat by now. Hopefully we start to hear some news soon.



Inshallah this will be so. I'm kind of gnashing teeth waiting, everything else being on hold.


----------



## 277to081

The word I got is that the board will not sit for another 2 wks. Hopefully in two weeks, they don't say it will be in another two weeks.


----------



## sidemount

No news yet.....dont even know why they mention a february time frame when its always this late every year


----------



## busyinbrussels

I had also assumed that because I had heard nothing yet that it was time to move on.

Knowing now that I may still get an offer could make things interesting.

I spoke with a member of the staff at the BPSO's office today and she confirmed that they have not seen any offers yet this year, so none are out there.  

Waiting, waiting, waiting.....


----------



## sidemount

Yeah got the same info here....no messages for anything out here yet


----------



## busyinbrussels

I put some feelers out to some friends in Ottawa to see if they knew anything.  I will let everyone know if I hear anything.

Also, if anyone gets an offer, please let the rest of us know and put us out of our misery!!!


----------



## vroom

Has anyone heard anything WRT their application? I imagine offers are coming out soon.


----------



## swoo7

Spoke with my BPSO this morning, he said he got word that the board has finally sat.  He told me that offers should start arriving this week and that if you don't hear anything by the end of this month, it is a good indication that you will have to try again next year.


----------



## busyinbrussels

That is some good news, though like everything that comes out of the military I will take it with a grain of salt.

I heard that they sat months ago, then I heard there was a delay, then I heard if you hadnt gotten an offer you werent this year and then I heard oh no wait, no offers out yet.

And that was all in March.

Time will tell I guess.  They have to come out with it eventually.


----------



## sidemount

Well they dont HAVE to come out with anything.

We'll see though....hopefully messages coming out soon


----------



## George Wallace

;D


 >

Reading some of the recent posts in this thread has me wondering if some of you are not hearing back because you can't spell or construct proper sentences when writing.   


 >


----------



## sidemount

You have to be that guy don't you?


----------



## George Wallace

sidemount said:
			
		

> You have to be that guy don't you?



Well......If that is how you wrote up all your documentation and such for approval......Someone may have decided that you were not exactly what they wanted......:dunno:


----------



## sidemount

Damn, and here I thought I could make it through the rest of my career still signing my name in bright red crayon. Guess I'm going to have to give them back to the Lt.  ;D


----------



## George Wallace

sidemount said:
			
		

> Damn, and here I thought I could make it through the rest of my career still signing my name in bright red crayon. Guess I'm going to have to give them back to the Lt.  ;D



 ;D

I was going to reply that you could get posted to a certain Unit, but it has been disbanded.


----------



## sidemount

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> I was going to reply that you could get posted to a certain Unit, but it has been disbanded.



 :rofl:


----------



## trooper142

swoo7 said:
			
		

> Spoke with my BPSO this morning, he said he got word that the board has finally sat.  He told me that offers should start arriving this week and that if you don't hear anything by the end of this month, it is a good indication that you will have to try again next year.



So ill take this to mean that the numbers for fiscal year 15/16 have been released finally, which was the reason I was told for the delay.

Or am I reading this wrong lol?


----------



## MJP

trooper142 said:
			
		

> So ill take this to mean that the numbers for fiscal year 15/16 have been released finally, which was the reason I was told for the delay.
> 
> Or am I reading this wrong lol?



SIP for UTPNCM is set from the previous FY.  The numbers generally stay pretty static with a bit of movement to allow for shortfalls in various officer production programs.  I don't have link for the DIN SIP numbers but it is on the site somewhere.


----------



## sidemount

MJP said:
			
		

> SIP for UTPNCM is set from the previous FY.  The numbers generally stay pretty static with a bit of movement to allow for shortfalls in various officer production programs.  I don't have link for the DIN SIP numbers but it is on the site somewhere.



Speaking of the SIP, I had a link on the DIN to it, as well as CF entry standards. It all seems to be link dead now. Does anyone have those links that still work and wouldn't mind PMing them to me?


----------



## busyinbrussels

For people who have gotten the offers before, how did they come?

Did they go through your OR, directly to your CO or directly to you?

Some of us have CO's that aren't at work all that often, and it would suck if an offer was sitting in his email for two weeks.


----------



## MJP

busyinbrussels said:
			
		

> For people who have gotten the offers before, how did they come?
> 
> Did they go through your OR, directly to your CO or directly to you?
> 
> Some of us have CO's that aren't at work all that often, and it would suck if an offer was sitting in his email for two weeks.



Through your OR + account.  COs generally don't get routine messages.


----------



## mizzenmast

busyinbrussels said:
			
		

> For people who have gotten the offers before, how did they come?
> 
> Did they go through your OR, directly to your CO or directly to you?
> 
> Some of us have CO's that aren't at work all that often, and it would suck if an offer was sitting in his email for two weeks.



I agree with the last post. Talk to your OR or more importantly your Chief Clerk, my message was in the routine traffic for my unit. There is a time sensitivity with new TOS and CO's concurrence on a UTPNCM selection so normally an OR will not sit on one. If I was waiting for a message I'd be sure and have informed that CClk or the clerk who handles message traffic that one might be inbound so they can keep an eye out. 

That being said I've been on this forum for 4 years, and literally talked to dozens of UT's while I was going through the process, no one that I have encountered missed their chance to UT by the message not finding them. 

Best of luck to all, I know how much the waiting sucks. As someone who did not get a message his first year applying I can tell you that when you finally do get selected it is worth it, keep your head up if no message comes. It's not the end of the world, just a new hill to climb. 

Mizzen.


----------



## busyinbrussels

Another week down with no word....

I wonder if they realize some of us might have to sell houses and move across the country???


----------



## Melbatoast

busyinbrussels said:
			
		

> Another week down with no word....
> 
> I wonder if they realize some of us might have to sell houses and move across the country???



Not to sound like a crusty fool, but that's your problem. And it's a teeny, tiny one compared to the deal you get via UTP.

The year I got selected, I didn't get my offer until end Apr, was in Halifax on a 6 month career course, and hadn't even _applied_ to a university yet (long story). It all works out, and ends up about as sweet a gig as you'll find in this outfit.


----------



## Ostrozac

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> Not to sound like a crusty fool, but that's your problem. And it's a teeny, tiny one compared to the deal you get via UTP.
> 
> The year I got selected, I didn't get my offer until end Apr, was in Halifax on a 6 month career course, and hadn't even _applied_ to a university yet (long story). It all works out, and ends up about as sweet a gig as you'll find in this outfit.



I too, have an issue with the late timelines for UTPNCM boards, but it's not because it's a burden on the member. The member applied for the program, if he gets an offer on short notice, it's entirely his decision to accept/reject. Instead I feel that it's a burden on the losing unit and the losing trade. The board sitting so late means that the posting plot for the losing MOSID is already finalized, posting messages have been cut, and the giant Tetris game played by the career manager is almost over. Then the UT board sits, and X number of people leave their home MOSIDs for the BTL. That leaves holes in random places, with reduced ability for the career managers to fill priority postings.

Is it manageable? Usually, for larger trades. For smaller trades, losing a few NCO's in random places can be a burden. A burden that could be reduced by moving the boards up a couple of months.


----------



## MeanJean

Being a UTP, I have had to play the waiting game.  When I was accepted three years ago, the message did not come in the routine traffic.  I was able to check the other message feed.  I am not sure what message feed it was but I did have a link to it.  Being off base for basically three years has lead me to forget what it was called.  Anyways, my DivO was pissed when I found out before he did.   

I know that the board sits late and that it can seem like an inconvenience to everyone but when I applied for the program, there were roughly 24 officer training positions available.  I can only assume that with spending cuts there may be less than that.  If you consider how many people and trades there are in the CAF, the loss of personnel to UTPNCM is negligible.  Each trade would lose more soldiers and sailors to VR's and retirements in the course of a year.  So the next guy on the merit list gets an unexpected promotion.  Sounds like win/win to me.  If trades are hurting for warm bodies, I can guarantee you that it's not due to UTP.  You being accepted to the UTP program should not come to a surprise to your Career Manager.

The norm for the UTP program, unless it has changed this year, would be to send you to a local university.  That way the CAF will save money by not providing a cost move for you and your family and I believe that they would probably send someone to a local university for the same position before they would pay to move someone else.  If you are part of the rare case and you will have to move and sell your house, I would think that your house would be ready to list tomorrow.  The UTP looks for people who take the initiative and can take care of them selves.  There is not going to be someone giving you orders to do your homework, term papers and required readings.  

The biggest concern that you should have now is registering for September courses.  You should already be accepted to your university of choice.  I got my message at the beginning of May and I did not realize that registration had already started.  Being in the engineering program, some of the courses were already filled.  If you are getting an arts degree, this should not be that big of an issue.  Actually the next four years for you will be pretty jammy.  As for the rest of us in a competitive program with limited seating, this is something to consider.  Remember, if you do not get selected you can unregister your course load and without incurring any costs.  You will also have to defer your application for another year.

Best of luck!


----------



## sidemount

Well still no news on the acceptance front, but here is a interesting CANFORGEN. If I am reading it right, after this years selection, the next crew will not be promoted to Lt upon completion.

CANFORGEN 077/15 CMP 038/15 151759Z APR 15
RANK AND PROMOTION UPON COMMISSIONING FOR IN-SERVICE COMMISSIONING PLANS, REGULAR FORCE
UNCLASSIFIED


REF: A. CFAO 9-13, UNIVERSITY TRAINING PLAN NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS (UTPNCM)
B. CFAO 9-70, SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN (SCP)
C. CBI 204.211(10), OFFICER CADET, FORMER NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER
D. CANFORGEN 051/15 TIME IN RANK REQUIREMENTS FOR PROMOTION UNDER THE SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN
E. CFAO 11-6, COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY - OFFICERS - REGULAR FORCE



THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO ANNOUNCE A POLICY CHANGE REGARDING THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR NCMS COMMISSIONED UNDER THE UTPNCM AND SCP AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B RESPECTIVELY 


AS A RESULT OF CLARIFICATION FROM THE DIRECTORATE OF PAY POLICY DEVELOPMENT, IT IS NOW APPARENT THAT CHANGES MADE TO CBI 204 IN PREVIOUS YEARS HAVE PROVIDED THE NECESSARY VESTED RIGHTS TO PAY FOR NCMS WHO COMMISSION UNDER REFS A AND B. PREVIOUSLY THESE PLANS ACHIEVED PAY PROTECTION THROUGH GRANTING SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT FOR AN NCM WHO HELD THE RANK OR APPOINTMENT OF MCPL/MS OR ABOVE. CHANGES TO THE PAY STRUCTURE FOR AN OFFICER WITH FORMER SERVICE AS AN NCM (REF C) HAVE RENDERED THESE PROMOTION PATTERNS UNNECESSARY. THEREFORE, THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR THE PLANS IDENTIFIED AT REFS A AND B WILL BE AS FOLLOWS: 


NCMS HOLDING THE RANK OR APPOINTMENT OF MCPL/MS AND BELOW WILL BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT AND REQUIRE ONE YEAR IN THAT RANK IN ORDER TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT. FOLLOWING PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT, THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM OF TWO ADDITIONAL YEARS TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N), AND 


NCMS HOLDING THE SUBSTANTIVE RANK OF SGT/PO2 AND ABOVE WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT WITH SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B. THIS SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION IS INTENDED TO RECOGNIZE THE LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE WHICH A SENIOR NCO BRINGS WITH THEM ON COMMISSIONING. THOSE OFFICERS PROMOTED SIMULTANEOUSLY TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT ON COMMISSIONING WILL CONTINUE TO BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM THREE YEARS IN THAT RANK TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N) 


THE CHANGE DESCRIBED AT PARA 2.A BETTER REFLECTS THE UNTRAINED STATUS OF MEMBERS IN THE NEW OFFICER MILITARY OCCUPATION AND HARMONIZES THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR UTPNCM AND SCP WITH THE COMMISSIONING FROM THE RANKS PLAN. PAY PROTECTION FOR FORMER NCMS ON COMMISSIONING CONTINUES TO EXIST UNDER REF C AND IS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS POLICY CHANGE 


THE CHANGE DESCRIBED AT PARA 2.A DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT OF A UTPNCM OR SCP OFFICER COMMISSIONED IN AN OFFICER MILITARY OCCUPATION FOR WHICH COMPLETION OF A BACCALAUREATE DEGREE FULFILS THE OCCUPATIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT. IN SUCH CASES, THE MEMBER IS REQUIRED TO SERVE THREE YEARS IN THE RANK OF LT/SLT TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N) 


THIS CHANGE TO THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR MCPL/MS APPLIES TO NEW APPLICANTS ACCEPTED UNDER THE UTPNCM AND SCP BEGINNING WITH THE 2016 COMPETITIONS. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THOSE MEMBERS PREVIOUSLY ACCEPTED AND SERVING UNDER REFS A AND B, WHO WILL CONTINUE TO BE PROMOTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS STATED IN REFS A, B AND D 


THE ABOVE POLICY DIRECTION IS TO BE INSERTED INTO THE APPROPRIATE POLICY INSTRUMENTS AND REFERRED TO IN DMCPG COMPETITION CANFORGENS. IT WILL BE CAPTURED IN FORTHCOMING NEW DAODS FOR THE UTPNCM AND SCP 


ENQUIRIES REGARDING THE APPLICATION OF THIS POLICY SHOULD BE DIRECTED THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND TO DPGR 4-5


----------



## Eye In The Sky

NCMS HOLDING THE SUBSTANTIVE RANK OF SGT/PO2 AND ABOVE WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT WITH SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B. THIS SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION IS INTENDED TO RECOGNIZE THE LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE WHICH A SENIOR NCO BRINGS WITH THEM ON COMMISSIONING. THOSE OFFICERS PROMOTED SIMULTANEOUSLY TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT ON COMMISSIONING WILL CONTINUE TO BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM THREE YEARS IN THAT RANK TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N) 

It depends on rank, right?  Not all UTPs are Jacks and Cpls.


----------



## sidemount

Yes, sorry, you are correct, I should have said MCpls are no longer going to be promoted to Lt. Cpls previously went to 2Lt anyway, and Sgts are still going to Lt.


----------



## rocksteady

Is it possible to get a CFAT score waiver to do UTPNCM?

Situation is NCM with a bachelor's degree that isn't the desired degree wants to do UTPNCM into an officer trade that is currently Red.  Scored high enough to do any NCM trade but not high enough for the officer cut off. 

Thanks.


----------



## MJP

rocksteady said:
			
		

> Is it possible to get a CFAT score waiver to do UTPNCM?
> 
> Situation is NCM with a bachelor's degree that isn't the desired degree wants to do UTPNCM into an officer trade that is currently Red.  Scored high enough to do any NCM trade but not high enough for the officer cut off.
> 
> Thanks.



An NCM with a Bachelor's degree usually goes the route of Special Commissioning Plan (SCP) not UTPNCM.  There are exceptions when degree does not match desire trade needs however generally one still has to meet all other requirements including CFAT.  I am sure a persuasive argument can be made to rewrite the CFAT if one wanted to go that route.  I might even suggest that if one wanted to be an officer they would do their due diligence and present a coherent case for rewriting or waiving CFAT needs.


----------



## ballz

They have royally f**ked up the way they recognize people as Capts through different entry programs.

Someone who was a MCpl or Sgt and takes a commission in their own trade shouldn't need 3 years as an Lt to get their Capt promotion, if they do they never should have been accepted for UTPNCM in the first place. My colleague won the Vance Award (top Sgt in The RCR) before going UTP. We both started as Pl Comds at basically the same time (May for me, September for him)... I was just promoted to Capt and he needs to wait another year. It's RTFO 'er. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## sidemount

So as an update, I spoke with the PSO's office here.....no messages, and no timeframe when to expect them.


----------



## busyinbrussels

sidemount said:
			
		

> So as an update, I spoke with the PSO's office here.....no messages, and no timeframe when to expect them.



Got the same message from mine here in Quebec as well.....


----------



## thirdprophet

I've just received an offer for UTPNCM - you should see them all coming down the pipe now.


----------



## busyinbrussels

thirdprophet said:
			
		

> I've just received an offer for UTPNCM - you should see them all coming down the pipe now.



Can you tell us what trade it was for?


----------



## thirdprophet

The offer was CELE Air - I doubt there are many others here who went for that one.


----------



## 277to081

Hey Prophet, did it come in your email or through your OR? Cheers, and congrats!


----------



## thirdprophet

It came down through the OR to my Platoon.

Good luck all and fingers crossed for great news coming your way soon.


----------



## sidemount

Thanks for the update and congrats! Im in for RCEME hopefully not too many asking....only one spot available on the SIP


----------



## busyinbrussels

5 spots available for LOG, here is hoping I get one of them!!!

Thanks again for letting us know the first offers are out.  Here is hoping a few more come out over the next few days.


----------



## Vince126

long time lurker on the forum, but my posting message for my year long french course has been on hold for a few months now pending my UTPNCM offer.  I was told today that messages are sent out but they cannot tell me if I am on the list or not........but they said I was taken off of my French course.....read between the lines i guess, will check with my OR tomorrow morning.


----------



## TheUnitedEmpire

Offer for Cele Air was accepted this morning. 

Good luck to all who applied! Messages are starting to fly.


----------



## Vince126

Got my offer for Pilot this morning.  Offer was sent 08 May.  Negotiating for a different school, i hope they are flexible on this lol.


----------



## Nivase

Has anyone recieved any offers for Nursing yet? More towards the Manitoba, western direction?


----------



## swoo7

Got my offer for Logistics Officer this morning.  Good luck to those still waiting.


----------



## 277to081

Just accepted my offer for pilot! Good luck all!


----------



## Popfly

Congrats everyone,

I am happy to hear the offers are coming! Has anyone received a "thank you, better luck next time" letter?

Should we expect the letters were dist in bulk, or maybe trickle in as they are approved. Any Sig Os hear anything yet??


----------



## sidemount

I doubt all offers are out yet. That being said it takes some extra time to get the non-selection messages.


----------



## CafeRacer59

Has anyone received or heard of any offers for AERE


----------



## Popfly

a question for everyone who has received an offer~

IAW CANFORGEN 077/15,

If you were a MCpl would your offer state:

APPOINTMENT TO 2LT; or would it say OCdt no matter which rank you are? Would a Sgt's say APPOINTMENT TO LT?


----------



## MJP

Popfly said:
			
		

> a question for everyone who has received an offer~
> 
> IAW CANFORGEN 077/15,
> 
> If you were a MCpl would your offer state:
> 
> APPOINTMENT TO 2LT; or would it say OCdt no matter which rank you are? Would a Sgt's say APPOINTMENT TO LT?



You are an OCdt until you have finished school regardless of rank held before.


----------



## ps387

Got my offer today. Good luck all.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Popfly said:
			
		

> a question for everyone who has received an offer~
> 
> IAW CANFORGEN 077/15,
> 
> If you were a MCpl would your offer state:
> 
> APPOINTMENT TO 2LT; or would it say OCdt no matter which rank you are? Would a Sgt's say APPOINTMENT TO LT?



No, mostly because Officers are commissioned not appointed.

GSK really is lacking.


----------



## Thermal

CafeRacer59 said:
			
		

> Has anyone received or heard of any offers for AERE



Good day.

I received an offer for AERE. It was sent to my Sqn. OR account on 14-May-2015, and then it passed down through my chain of command a few days ago. I will be attending RMC this fall.

I feel relieved now... It took me a lot of work and dedication, and my CO was very supportive. I'm glad to see that it finally paid off.

Wish you a good luck to all who applied.


----------



## Nivase

Good day:

Thursday morning I recieved my approval to the UTPNCM for Nursing. Im just waiting to sign off on my offer. Good luck on all those still waiting!


----------



## sidemount

So I was told today that due to a Clerical error that not all messages are out yet. Not sure how much truth there is to this though. However, I have yet to see a non-selection message.


----------



## dapaterson

Popfly said:
			
		

> a question for everyone who has received an offer~
> 
> IAW CANFORGEN 077/15,
> 
> If you were a MCpl would your offer state:
> 
> APPOINTMENT TO 2LT; or would it say OCdt no matter which rank you are? Would a Sgt's say APPOINTMENT TO LT?



All officers are commissioned as 2Lt; some receive simultaneous promotion to other ranks.


----------



## Castus

sidemount said:
			
		

> So I was told today that due to a Clerical error that not all messages are out yet. Not sure how much truth there is to this though. However, I have yet to see a non-selection message.



If you had to rate this source on a scale of A-F, A being the best and F being the worst.... how would they fare?


----------



## sidemount

C+ ish

I take everything with a grain of salt though, especially since no one has posted an offer here in about a week which makes me think they are in fact all out.


----------



## Castus

I'd like to believe your source. My optimist side would like to, anyway. My realist side is throwing up his hands in the air. I suppose we're back to, "Wait and see."


----------



## busyinbrussels

Castus said:
			
		

> I'd like to believe your source. My optimist side would like to, anyway. My realist side is throwing up his hands in the air. I suppose we're back to, "Wait and see."



This guy has also given up and started thinking about how to improve my application for next year.  As much as I realize that clerical errors do exist, how hard can it really be.


----------



## sidemount

Same boat.

Ive pretty well started to plan for what I want to do this coming year....not sure if I am going to re-apply or try something different. My CoC has mentioned CFR but they are all changing so we will see after the summer.


----------



## 277to081

A question for previous UTP selectees:

If you get selected for a Civy University that is quite far away from your residence and your local base (45 min drive in my case), are you also entitled to any kind of commuting assistance, or even a move if it is more than 40km away? 

I have not been assigned a ULO yet so am posing the question here as it will help me determine how I distribute my classes throughout the week (trying to save on fuel).


----------



## sidemount

So I just received an offer for RCEME officer.....at the end of a 22km ruck no less.


----------



## busyinbrussels

sidemount said:
			
		

> So I just received an offer for RCEME officer.....at the end of a 22km ruck no less.



Can I ask what the date time group was on your message?

Just wondering if it was a recent release.


----------



## sidemount

I havent seen the paperwork yet however my csm said it showed up during the march and the CO told me when we got back so Im assuming it would be today....they have been checking all the time on my behalf


----------



## wolot

It is unfortunately really late in the year for offers as many universities have a deadline of June 1st for accepting offers.


----------



## Vince126

Agreed, this is VERY late in the game.  Still no posting message for accepted offers yet.


----------



## MJP

wolot said:
			
		

> It is unfortunately really late in the year for offers as many universities have a deadline of June 1st for accepting offers.



That is why you enroll in the university for the spring/summer sessions and then defer your enrollment into crses until the fall.  Thousands of people have done UTPNCM with the same message time frame and they have made it to school that fall.  Folks need to remember they are entering into an officer production program and need to use a bit of ingenuity to get around issues.


----------



## dardt

MJP said:
			
		

> That is why you enroll in the university for the spring/summer sessions and then defer your enrollment into crses until the fall.  Thousands of people have done UTPNCM with the same message time frame and they have made it to school that fall.  Folks need to remember they are entering into an officer production program and need to use a bit of ingenuity to get around issues.



The boards held for the UTP program decide where you will be going to university, not the CF member. How can one enroll in a university without an offer with a specified school? It may work out if you have a substantial portion of your degree complete, live in the same geographic area as your preferred institution etc... but it may not (the CF may send you somewhere else based on other factors you are unaware of). Also several trades require professional degree programs (i.e B.Eng. or B.Nurs.), where the only option is a fall start date with the specified deadline. The CF is using the civilian educational system to support officer production, they should get in line.


----------



## MJP

Flatspin said:
			
		

> The boards held for the UTP program decide where you will be going to university, not the CF member. How can one enroll in a university without an offer with a specified school? It may work out if you have a substantial portion of your degree complete, live in the same geographic area as your preferred institution etc... but it may not (the CF may send you somewhere else based on other factors you are unaware of). Also several trades require professional degree programs (i.e B.Eng. or B.Nurs.), where the only option is a fall start date with the specified deadline. The CF is using the civilian educational system to support officer production, they should get in line.



You give the board the name of the desired universities that you wish to go to.  You apply for all of them, register and then defer enrollment into classes.  Other then RMC I have yet to see a UTP candidate go to a university that they didn't themselves list on the application.  There will always be a few issues but magically thousands of people have seemed to make it work.  I like you wish the CAF would get in line with lots of things but I don't get too worked up about it.


----------



## dardt

MJP said:
			
		

> You give the board the name of the desired universities that you wish to go to.  You apply for all of them, register and then defer enrollment into classes.  Other then RMC I have yet to see a UTP candidate go to a university that they didn't themselves list on the application.  There will always be a few issues but magically thousands of people have seemed to make it work.  I like you wish the CAF would get in line with lots of things but I don't get too worked up about it.



I'm sure for a B.A., B.Sc. that may indeed work (although would likely require payment of multiple registration deposits if you register for all the universities to which you are accepted, these are also likely nonrefundable). The other factor is that deferment is at the discretion of the institution, certainly not a right. Yes, it's a potential solution to the problem. It just won't work for everyone in the program.


----------



## sidemount

In Ontario, you apply to schools and then they send you an acceptance through OUAC.
Thats all I did for a fall 2015 semester start. I accepted the offer from Queen's when I got it and sent it off to ottawa. That was back in Feb. Didnt have to pay anything up front so no biggie if I had to later decline.


----------



## Castus

Any new messages on this front?


----------



## 277to081

Anyone know when we can expect posting messages?


----------



## rocksteady

277to081 said:
			
		

> Anyone know when we can expect posting messages?



The CANFORGEN probably won't be out till August if that's what you are referring to?


----------



## 277to081

No, I mean for the people that have sent acceptance messages for their offers. When can they (we) expect a posting message with an effective transfer date?


----------



## sidemount

No posting message but I emailed the admin contact. Cos 3 aug


----------



## Vince126

still no posting message.......i really hope its not August.  Still need to do HHT, sell my current house, and drive for 15 days to Nova Scotia lol. Pretty sure school starts first week of September.


----------



## sidemount

A COS can be moved 30 days to the left or right if need be


----------



## 277to081

Yeah, your COS likely will not change but the Report For Duty (RFD) date can be within 30 days of the COS date.


----------



## sidemount

Yeah that one.....sorry I use COS for both and its not proper.


----------



## Chernoble

Late to the party, but I received my offer for PSEL on 21 May 2015.  The message was cut on 07 May 2015, my orderly room did not do the best job of getting it to me, I found out through digging and bothering my WPSO.  

I accepted and have not received a posting message as of yet.


----------



## sidemount

Posting message just arrived today, so they are coming if you don't have it already.


Cheers


----------



## 277to081

Nice, so did your COS date end up being 3 AUG?


----------



## sidemount

Yes, it is indeed 3 Aug.

Cheers


----------



## 277to081

Still waiting on the message. It turns out that they are working on them but releasing the ones for people who have to move first (makes sense).


----------



## 277to081

Just an FYI to others. I got my posting instructions today. OCdt eff 01 July, posted to university 13 Jul.


----------



## thirdprophet

Exactly the same for me.  Got it almost first thing this morning.


----------



## Chernoble

277to081 said:
			
		

> Just an FYI to others. I got my posting instructions today. OCdt eff 01 July, posted to university 13 Jul.



Same here. Got it this morning and am now wearing a thin little blue stripe instead of three chevrons and a leaf.  Cheers to new roads!


----------



## mizzenmast

Chernoble said:
			
		

> Same here. Got it this morning and am now wearing a thin little blue stripe instead of three chevrons and a leaf.  Cheers to new roads!



Well! Congratulations! As one of the long tenured members of the UTPNCM forum I am glad for you. You my friend are certainly proof that perseverance pays off. 

I am glad to see you get in, I was sad to see that after waiting together for a response in 2013 that you weren't picked up the next year like many of us who didn't make the cut our first year out. 

I wanted to publically say thanks for the advice, and that it was about time you had your shot.


----------



## dapaterson

Chernoble said:
			
		

> Same here. Got it this morning and am now wearing a thin little blue stripe instead of three chevrons and a leaf.  Cheers to new roads!



Congrats and good luck in your future endeavours.

But now the important question: did you have to buy your way out of one mess, and into another?  :cheers:


----------



## Chernoble

mizzenmast said:
			
		

> Well! Congratulations! As one of the long tenured members of the UTPNCM forum I am glad for you. You my friend are certainly proof that perseverance pays off.
> 
> I am glad to see you get in, I was sad to see that after waiting together for a response in 2013 that you weren't picked up the next year like many of us who didn't make the cut our first year out.
> 
> I wanted to publically say thanks for the advice, and that it was about time you had your shot.



Thanks! I really appreciate it!  It was a long haul but I'm finally here and looking forward to school and the challenges that lie ahead.


----------



## statzcom

I'm curious if anyone has the statistics (rough or exact) for how many people apply for UTPNCM every year vs. how many are accepted?

In other words, if it was a random roll of the dice, what % are accepted?


----------



## 211RadOp

statzcom said:
			
		

> I'm curious if anyone has the statistics (rough or exact) for how many people apply for UTPNCM every year



Varies from year to year as application is a personal choice.



			
				statzcom said:
			
		

> how many are accepted?



Also varies from year to year.  This is dependant on the SIP for the classification they are seeking.


----------



## Arty39

I was looking into the Special  Commissioning Plan for NCM'S. I've been in the Army for 2 1/2 years and have my basic trade courses finished. I read in a previous post you have to be a Cpl or higher, is this true? I'm a Gunner(Private) still. I have a completed degree that is registered on my MPR. I just wanted to know if any one on here has done the Special Commissioning and what to expect.


----------



## mariomike

Arty39 said:
			
		

> I just wanted to know if any one on here has done the Special Commissioning and what to expect.



This may help,

Special Commissioning Plan (SCP)
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+scp&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=d1UyVvL9EOPE8geQr4_IBw&gws_rd=ssl


----------



## Arty39

mariomike said:
			
		

> This may help,
> 
> Special Commissioning Plan (SCP)
> https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+scp&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=d1UyVvL9EOPE8geQr4_IBw&gws_rd=ssl


Thanks, I searched the forum and saw the current thread but didn't see that one. It has a lot more info.


----------



## mariomike

Arty39 said:
			
		

> Thanks, I searched the forum and saw the current thread but didn't see that one. It has a lot more info.



You are welcome.  Good luck!


----------



## DAA

Arty39 said:
			
		

> I was looking into the Special  Commissioning Plan for NCM'S. I've been in the Army for 2 1/2 years and have my basic trade courses finished. I read in a previous post you have to be a Cpl or higher, is this true? I'm a Gunner(Private) still. I have a completed degree that is registered on my MPR. I just wanted to know if any one on here has done the Special Commissioning and what to expect.



Pay a visit to your Unit Orderly Room and ask for a copy of CANFORGEN 144/15.

The deadline to apply for ACSO, Plt, AEC and MPO is 15 Dec 15.   For all other available occupations it's 15 Jan 16.

To be eligible to submit an application for the SCP, you must be a minimum of QL3/DP1 qualified and already possess the relevant undergrad degree applicable to your occupation of choice.  There are NO rank or time in minimums other than reaching OFP (ie; QL3/DP1).

Good luck!


----------



## Arty39

DAA said:
			
		

> Pay a visit to your Unit Orderly Room and ask for a copy of CANFORGEN 144/15.
> 
> The deadline to apply for ACSO, Plt, AEC and MPO is 15 Dec 15.   For all other available occupations it's 15 Jan 16.
> 
> To be eligible to submit an application for the SCP, you must be a minimum of QL3/DP1 qualified and already possess the relevant undergrad degree applicable to your occupation of choice.  There are NO rank or time in minimums other than reaching OFP (ie; QL3/DP1).
> 
> Good luck!


I have all the paper work printed out and filled out for the most part. Just need to look more in depth into a few trades. Then send it up the COC.


----------



## jitterbug

Can someone please explain why there are more positions for UTPNCM than SCP for the same trades?

Wouldn't it make sense for it to be the opposite as the CF has to pay for schooling for the UTPNCM person and the SCP person would be Trained Effective Strength faster than the UTPNCM person.

http://cmp-cpm.mil.ca/en/support/military-personnel/dpgr-index.page Look under Production Reports then SIP Scorecard FY 15/16 spreadsheet


----------



## MasterInstructor

I tried the BPSO but could not get a clear answer. 

I applied for 3 trades for UTP-NCM, first 2 require Air Crew Selection. 

I just got a message to attend Air Crew Selection. 

1-) Does this mean I already merited for UTP-NCM and if I pass ACS, I will be offered a position? OR Does everyone get Air Crew Selection and board sits after? 

2-) If I am not successful at Air Crew Selection, will I be considered for my 3rd choice? 

Thanks


----------



## mariomike

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> I tried the BPSO but could not get a clear answer.



This may help,

UTPNCM  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/106920.225.html
10 pages.

Perhaps this thread can be merged into the UTPNCM mega-thread for future reference.


----------



## jitterbug

So this CANFORGEN came out last year stating that UTPNCM/SCP candidates who were MCpls would no longer be promoted to Lt as they were just being promoted to 2Lt and had to spend a year then promoted to Lt as candidates who were Sgts would still be promoted to Lt and they wanted to differentiate due to the Sgt's leadership experience.  

If you look at the pay grade of a MCpl 4 Spec 1 ($5856), and then push it over to the next pay grade in 2Lt ($6025) as would happen with the commissioning than that is greater than going from MCpl 4 Spec 1 to Lt ($5885) which would be the next pay grade in Lt.  It seems that by enacting this CANFORGEN it actually benefits the MCpl more to be a 2Lt first then be an Lt a year later by virtue of the pay scales.  If you look into it even further the 2Lt and the Lt will be at the same pay after one year as the 2Lt gets promoted.

Does this appear to be correct?  

Below is the CANFORGEN.

CANFORGEN 077/15 CMP 038/15 151759Z APR 15
RANK AND PROMOTION UPON COMMISSIONING FOR IN-SERVICE COMMISSIONING PLANS, REGULAR FORCE
UNCLASSIFIED


REF: A. CFAO 9-13, UNIVERSITY TRAINING PLAN NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS (UTPNCM)
B. CFAO 9-70, SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN (SCP)
C. CBI 204.211(10), OFFICER CADET, FORMER NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER
D. CANFORGEN 051/15 TIME IN RANK REQUIREMENTS FOR PROMOTION UNDER THE SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN
E. CFAO 11-6, COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY - OFFICERS - REGULAR FORCE



THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO ANNOUNCE A POLICY CHANGE REGARDING THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR NCMS COMMISSIONED UNDER THE UTPNCM AND SCP AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B RESPECTIVELY 


AS A RESULT OF CLARIFICATION FROM THE DIRECTORATE OF PAY POLICY DEVELOPMENT, IT IS NOW APPARENT THAT CHANGES MADE TO CBI 204 IN PREVIOUS YEARS HAVE PROVIDED THE NECESSARY VESTED RIGHTS TO PAY FOR NCMS WHO COMMISSION UNDER REFS A AND B. PREVIOUSLY THESE PLANS ACHIEVED PAY PROTECTION THROUGH GRANTING SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT FOR AN NCM WHO HELD THE RANK OR APPOINTMENT OF MCPL/MS OR ABOVE. CHANGES TO THE PAY STRUCTURE FOR AN OFFICER WITH FORMER SERVICE AS AN NCM (REF C) HAVE RENDERED THESE PROMOTION PATTERNS UNNECESSARY. THEREFORE, THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR THE PLANS IDENTIFIED AT REFS A AND B WILL BE AS FOLLOWS: 


NCMS HOLDING THE RANK OR APPOINTMENT OF MCPL/MS AND BELOW WILL BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT AND REQUIRE ONE YEAR IN THAT RANK IN ORDER TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT. FOLLOWING PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT, THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM OF TWO ADDITIONAL YEARS TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N), AND 


NCMS HOLDING THE SUBSTANTIVE RANK OF SGT/PO2 AND ABOVE WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT WITH SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B. THIS SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION IS INTENDED TO RECOGNIZE THE LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE WHICH A SENIOR NCO BRINGS WITH THEM ON COMMISSIONING. THOSE OFFICERS PROMOTED SIMULTANEOUSLY TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT ON COMMISSIONING WILL CONTINUE TO BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM THREE YEARS IN THAT RANK TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N) 


THE CHANGE DESCRIBED AT PARA 2.A BETTER REFLECTS THE UNTRAINED STATUS OF MEMBERS IN THE NEW OFFICER MILITARY OCCUPATION AND HARMONIZES THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR UTPNCM AND SCP WITH THE COMMISSIONING FROM THE RANKS PLAN. PAY PROTECTION FOR FORMER NCMS ON COMMISSIONING CONTINUES TO EXIST UNDER REF C AND IS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS POLICY CHANGE 


THE CHANGE DESCRIBED AT PARA 2.A DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT OF A UTPNCM OR SCP OFFICER COMMISSIONED IN AN OFFICER MILITARY OCCUPATION FOR WHICH COMPLETION OF A BACCALAUREATE DEGREE FULFILS THE OCCUPATIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT. IN SUCH CASES, THE MEMBER IS REQUIRED TO SERVE THREE YEARS IN THE RANK OF LT/SLT TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N) 


THIS CHANGE TO THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR MCPL/MS APPLIES TO NEW APPLICANTS ACCEPTED UNDER THE UTPNCM AND SCP BEGINNING WITH THE 2016 COMPETITIONS. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THOSE MEMBERS PREVIOUSLY ACCEPTED AND SERVING UNDER REFS A AND B, WHO WILL CONTINUE TO BE PROMOTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS STATED IN REFS A, B AND D 


THE ABOVE POLICY DIRECTION IS TO BE INSERTED INTO THE APPROPRIATE POLICY INSTRUMENTS AND REFERRED TO IN DMCPG COMPETITION CANFORGENS. IT WILL BE CAPTURED IN FORTHCOMING NEW DAODS FOR THE UTPNCM AND SCP 


ENQUIRIES REGARDING THE APPLICATION OF THIS POLICY SHOULD BE DIRECTED THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND TO DPGR 4-5


----------



## jitterbug

So this CANFORGEN came out last year stating that UTPNCM/SCP candidates who were MCpls would no longer be promoted to Lt as they were just being promoted to 2Lt and had to spend a year then promoted to Lt as candidates who were Sgts would still be promoted to Lt and they wanted to differentiate due to the Sgt's leadership experience.  

If you look at the pay grade of a MCpl 4 Spec 1 ($5856), and then push it over to the next pay grade in 2Lt ($6025) as would happen with the commissioning than that is greater than going from MCpl 4 Spec 1 to Lt ($5885) which would be the next pay grade in Lt.  It seems that by enacting this CANFORGEN it actually benefits the MCpl the same to be a 2Lt first then be an Lt a year later by virtue of the pay scales.  If you look into it even further the 2Lt and the Lt will be at the same pay after one year as the 2Lt gets promoted.  How does this really benefit a Sgt aside from getting an extra half bar as an Lt.

Does this appear to be correct?  

Below is the CANFORGEN.

CANFORGEN 077/15 CMP 038/15 151759Z APR 15
RANK AND PROMOTION UPON COMMISSIONING FOR IN-SERVICE COMMISSIONING PLANS, REGULAR FORCE
UNCLASSIFIED


REF: A. CFAO 9-13, UNIVERSITY TRAINING PLAN NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS (UTPNCM)
B. CFAO 9-70, SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN (SCP)
C. CBI 204.211(10), OFFICER CADET, FORMER NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER
D. CANFORGEN 051/15 TIME IN RANK REQUIREMENTS FOR PROMOTION UNDER THE SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN
E. CFAO 11-6, COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY - OFFICERS - REGULAR FORCE



THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO ANNOUNCE A POLICY CHANGE REGARDING THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR NCMS COMMISSIONED UNDER THE UTPNCM AND SCP AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B RESPECTIVELY 


AS A RESULT OF CLARIFICATION FROM THE DIRECTORATE OF PAY POLICY DEVELOPMENT, IT IS NOW APPARENT THAT CHANGES MADE TO CBI 204 IN PREVIOUS YEARS HAVE PROVIDED THE NECESSARY VESTED RIGHTS TO PAY FOR NCMS WHO COMMISSION UNDER REFS A AND B. PREVIOUSLY THESE PLANS ACHIEVED PAY PROTECTION THROUGH GRANTING SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT FOR AN NCM WHO HELD THE RANK OR APPOINTMENT OF MCPL/MS OR ABOVE. CHANGES TO THE PAY STRUCTURE FOR AN OFFICER WITH FORMER SERVICE AS AN NCM (REF C) HAVE RENDERED THESE PROMOTION PATTERNS UNNECESSARY. THEREFORE, THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR THE PLANS IDENTIFIED AT REFS A AND B WILL BE AS FOLLOWS: 


NCMS HOLDING THE RANK OR APPOINTMENT OF MCPL/MS AND BELOW WILL BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT AND REQUIRE ONE YEAR IN THAT RANK IN ORDER TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT. FOLLOWING PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT, THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM OF TWO ADDITIONAL YEARS TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N), AND 


NCMS HOLDING THE SUBSTANTIVE RANK OF SGT/PO2 AND ABOVE WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT WITH SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B. THIS SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION IS INTENDED TO RECOGNIZE THE LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE WHICH A SENIOR NCO BRINGS WITH THEM ON COMMISSIONING. THOSE OFFICERS PROMOTED SIMULTANEOUSLY TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT ON COMMISSIONING WILL CONTINUE TO BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM THREE YEARS IN THAT RANK TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N) 


THE CHANGE DESCRIBED AT PARA 2.A BETTER REFLECTS THE UNTRAINED STATUS OF MEMBERS IN THE NEW OFFICER MILITARY OCCUPATION AND HARMONIZES THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR UTPNCM AND SCP WITH THE COMMISSIONING FROM THE RANKS PLAN. PAY PROTECTION FOR FORMER NCMS ON COMMISSIONING CONTINUES TO EXIST UNDER REF C AND IS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS POLICY CHANGE 


THE CHANGE DESCRIBED AT PARA 2.A DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT OF A UTPNCM OR SCP OFFICER COMMISSIONED IN AN OFFICER MILITARY OCCUPATION FOR WHICH COMPLETION OF A BACCALAUREATE DEGREE FULFILS THE OCCUPATIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT. IN SUCH CASES, THE MEMBER IS REQUIRED TO SERVE THREE YEARS IN THE RANK OF LT/SLT TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N) 


THIS CHANGE TO THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR MCPL/MS APPLIES TO NEW APPLICANTS ACCEPTED UNDER THE UTPNCM AND SCP BEGINNING WITH THE 2016 COMPETITIONS. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THOSE MEMBERS PREVIOUSLY ACCEPTED AND SERVING UNDER REFS A AND B, WHO WILL CONTINUE TO BE PROMOTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS STATED IN REFS A, B AND D 


THE ABOVE POLICY DIRECTION IS TO BE INSERTED INTO THE APPROPRIATE POLICY INSTRUMENTS AND REFERRED TO IN DMCPG COMPETITION CANFORGENS. IT WILL BE CAPTURED IN FORTHCOMING NEW DAODS FOR THE UTPNCM AND SCP 


ENQUIRIES REGARDING THE APPLICATION OF THIS POLICY SHOULD BE DIRECTED THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND TO DPGR 4-5


----------



## sidemount

How it was explained to me (i was a MCpl 4 spec 1) is that you dont automatically go to the next higher pay incentive upon promotion to 2Lt/Lt. I was told that I would continue at my current rate of pay until I reached an officer level that was higher.
Since Ill be promoted to Lt and then 3 years later, Capt, I really wont get a pay increase until I hit Capt.
This may be wrong I dont know, just what I was told.
Hopefully a grad of the utpncm program will chime in


----------



## Jorkapp

I'm in the same boat for SCP.

From DGMC:

Important Dates: 
•Selection Board - January 2016
•Offers - April 2016
•Posting Message - TBD
•COS Date - APS 2016

So it is _likely_ the boards have sat, and favourable candidates have ASC offers.


----------



## sidemount

Having done this last year:
Everyone who is found suitable from the BPSOs interview will attend ACS. If you pass your file will go to the merit boards for pilot. If you fail, your file will go to the merit boards for your other chosen trades. In reality the board wont sit for another few months. The key dates really dont mean anything.


----------



## sidemount

mariomike said:
			
		

> This may help,
> 
> UTPNCM
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/106920.225.html
> 10 pages.
> 
> Perhaps this thread can be merged into the UTPNCM mega-thread for future reference.


Should merge this one up Mike.

Cheers!


----------



## mariomike

sidemount said:
			
		

> Should merge this one up Mike.
> 
> Cheers!



Fingers crossed.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Thanks a lot for replies! They are taking 3 UTP-NCM PLT this year... Chances are low but you never know...


----------



## sidemount

Yeah they don't take many....I dont have dwan access while Im at school but I think it was maybe 44 people total across all trades last year and there is little to no variation year to year. Its a tough competition!


----------



## jitterbug

sidemount said:
			
		

> How it was explained to me (i was a MCpl 4 spec 1) is that you dont automatically go to the next higher pay incentive upon promotion to 2Lt/Lt. I was told that I would continue at my current rate of pay until I reached an officer level that was higher.
> Since Ill be promoted to Lt and then 3 years later, Capt, I really wont get a pay increase until I hit Capt.
> This may be wrong I dont know, just what I was told.
> Hopefully a grad of the utpncm program will chime in



How does pay work?

The actual incentive level granted is determined IAW CBI 204.04(3) (b), which is the level and incentive that *immediately exceeds* their current rate of pay by an amount equal to the difference between the basic rate of pay and the first incentive in their new rank. 

Example: 

Cpl Smith is appointed OCdt and will continue to be paid at Cpl (4) IAW CBI 204.211 (10); his current rate of pay is $4663/mos; until he graduates from officer training, he will continue to receive annual increases, but no additional incentive increases as he has already reached the maximum; upon graduation, OCdt Smith will be promoted to 2Lt and paid at level D to Table "B" IAW CBI 204.211 (7) (a) (ii); finally, IAW CBI 204.04 (3) (b), pay is calculated as follows (at 2009 rates) - 

i. Difference between incentive 1 and basic = $4718 - $4583 = $135 
ii. Rate of pay will be no lower than current rate $4663 + $135 = $4798 
iii. Rate of pay on promotion is nearest incentive equal to or above $4798 = 2Lt (2) or $4860


----------



## sidemount

jitterbug said:
			
		

> How does pay work?
> 
> The actual incentive level granted is determined IAW CBI 204.04(3) (b), which is the level and incentive that *immediately exceeds* their current rate of pay by an amount equal to the difference between the basic rate of pay and the first incentive in their new rank.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Cpl Smith is appointed OCdt and will continue to be paid at Cpl (4) IAW CBI 204.211 (10); his current rate of pay is $4663/mos; until he graduates from officer training, he will continue to receive annual increases, but no additional incentive increases as he has already reached the maximum; upon graduation, OCdt Smith will be promoted to 2Lt and paid at level D to Table "B" IAW CBI 204.211 (7) (a) (ii); finally, IAW CBI 204.04 (3) (b), pay is calculated as follows (at 2009 rates) -
> 
> i. Difference between incentive 1 and basic = $4718 - $4583 = $135
> ii. Rate of pay will be no lower than current rate $4663 + $135 = $4798
> iii. Rate of pay on promotion is nearest incentive equal to or above $4798 = 2Lt (2) or $4860


Awesome explanation! Thanks!
I like that much better then what was told to me haha


----------



## sidemount

So with that, a Mcpl 4 spec 1 would go to Lt(6123), as its base rate - 1st incentive is $200 and Mcpl 4 spec 1 + 200 is just over $6000, and not $5885 like you had originally posted?


----------



## CountDC

Members selected for commissioning retain vested rights under 
QR&O 204.07 and 204.072. Normally, candidates will be paid in 
accordance with QR&O 204.2112, however, due to the complexity of pay 
issues, each case will be determined by Director General Compensation and 
Benefits/Director Pay Policy and Development (DGCB/DPPD) prior to a 
selection offer being made to ensure the selected pay scale is appropriate.

You may be right if spec pay plays into it.  Unfortunately the QR&Os referenced are no longer in existance.


----------



## mariomike

> CANFORGEN 077/15 CMP 038/15 151759Z APR 15
> RANK AND PROMOTION UPON COMMISSIONING FOR IN-SERVICE COMMISSIONING PLANS, REGULAR FORCE



See also,

CANFORGEN 077/15 CMP 038/15 151759Z APR 15
RANK AND PROMOTION UPON COMMISSIONING FOR IN-SERVICE COMMISSIONING PLANS, REGULAR FORCE
http://army.ca/forums/threads/106920/post-1364365#msg1364365

and,

CANFORGEN 077/15 CMP 038/15 151759Z APR 15
RANK AND PROMOTION UPON COMMISSIONING FOR IN-SERVICE COMMISSIONING PLANS, REGULAR FORCE
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/106920/post-1411553.html#msg1411553


----------



## ShoddyGunner

Wasn't able to find this elsewhere, but also wasn't totally sure what to search for.

There are several occupations I'm interested in - both NCM and Officer route. I've tried the university thing though and it wasn't really for me, not right now anyway. Is it possible to enter the CAF as an NCM and then later go back to school and become an officer, without releasing first?


----------



## mariomike

ShoddyGunner said:
			
		

> Wasn't able to find this elsewhere, but also wasn't totally sure what to search for.



You may find these discussions of interest,

NCM to Officer
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+NCM+to+Officer&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=xw-0VsK0J6iC8QeOmZnoCQ&gws_rd=ssl

_As always,_ your most trusted source of information is Recruiting.


----------



## George Wallace

ShoddyGunner said:
			
		

> Wasn't able to find this elsewhere, but also wasn't totally sure what to search for.



PAAALEEEEASSE!


This is not the first thread you have started with exactly the same comment.  Mariomike has been kind enough to do your research for you and give you links to the appropriate topics.  Your lack of initiative is wearing thin here.  The members of this site are more than willing to help people, but they tire of people too lazy to do any research on their own.  We are not here to cater to people who have silver spoons in their mouths and can not do anything for themselves.

Learn how to use SEARCH.  Your Googlefu really sucks.


----------



## ShoddyGunner

I was using the wrong search terms. I _do_ try searching for things before posting, but clearly haven't been trying enough different combinations of words. I'm not trying to have other people do my research for me, I just figure that if I can't find it and it already exists someone will say so.

However, I do understand I've been inconveniencing people, especially Mariomike, and I'm sorry. I'll do better.


----------



## ShoddyGunner

Also, totally forgot about the "site:" function on Google - I think it'll help me find what I'm looking for in the future.


----------



## Lumber

ShoddyGunner said:
			
		

> Also, totally forgot about the "site:" function on Google - I think it'll help me find what I'm looking for in the future.



You may have just explained mariomike's epic ability to find and provide sources before anyone else... 

Perhaps his hegemony is ending...


----------



## Loachman

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that he has the whole Site memorized.


----------



## kratz

...or he has the lists of repetitive questions, with links bookmarked now.   [


----------



## Loachman

I doubt that he's likely to reveal his secrets. If everybody could do this, we'd have to pay him less.

And I've merged several of the links that he provided into one thread - seven pages of most-likely repetitive questions.

Anybody want to start a pool on the date of the next new thread on this subject...?


----------



## opcougar

One word....'Metadata'. That is Mario's secret.

Oh by the way...big up to you Mario. A pint of Guinness and a nice curry is on its way to you.  



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> I doubt that he's likely to reveal his secrets. If everybody could do this, we'd have to pay him less.
> 
> And I've merged several of the links that he provided into one thread - seven pages of most-likely repetitive questions.
> 
> Anybody want to start a pool on the date of the next new thread on this subject...?


----------



## VALERIECANDACE

This is for all the UTPNCM hopefulls that have applied for the 2016 year.

What MOC have you appled for?
Have you heard any response yet?
Is this you first year applying to the program?
Any inside information that might help other 2016 hopefuls?

I've applied for nursing and this is my first time applying to the competition.
Not gonna lie pretty stressed waiting for a response from the Universities and Ottawa.
Hopefully my hard work will pay off, fingers crossed


----------



## RatCatcher

I've applied for PAO. My first application, was described by my BPSO as a strong file. I've been accepted to York in Toronto (closest U to Borden with a Communication Studies degree). The program CANFORGEN stated that messages would be released in March, I don't expect to see one until near the end of the month (if accepted). In the mean time, I got my ILP DL to work on along with my duties as CSM. 

A friend of mine who did UT just said to enjoy the ride. The process may be long but worth it...


----------



## sidemount

Last year I didnt get my acceptance until June.
Its a long painful process that is very worth it in the end. 
Good luck to you and don't expect to hear anything for some time yet!


----------



## jitterbug

I applied to SCP (Special Commissioning Plan) for HCA (Healthcare Administration Officer).  I was told not to expect to hear anything until May.


----------



## RatCatcher

From what I understand last years late messages was due to issues outside of the program's control (read budgetary uncertainties). The lateness also placed stress upon the CM shops as it impacted posting plots etc. The info I received from the BPSO was that Ottawa wants to prevent that happening again but not to inquire regarding the application until May. That said, what happens in the Pentagon on the Rideau is anyone's guess. 

For me a late reply may allow me to complete my ILP residential but that means that I would be taking the place of someone who would really need it (unless I don't get UTPNCM then I do need the qual).

Either way, the day to day job still needs to get done. It only took 18 years of service to decide what I want to do in the CAF...


----------



## Vince126

jitterbug said:
			
		

> How does pay work?
> 
> The actual incentive level granted is determined IAW CBI 204.04(3) (b), which is the level and incentive that *immediately exceeds* their current rate of pay by an amount equal to the difference between the basic rate of pay and the first incentive in their new rank.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Cpl Smith is appointed OCdt and will continue to be paid at Cpl (4) IAW CBI 204.211 (10); his current rate of pay is $4663/mos; until he graduates from officer training, he will continue to receive annual increases, but no additional incentive increases as he has already reached the maximum; upon graduation, OCdt Smith will be promoted to 2Lt and paid at level D to Table "B" IAW CBI 204.211 (7) (a) (ii); finally, IAW CBI 204.04 (3) (b), pay is calculated as follows (at 2009 rates) -
> 
> i. Difference between incentive 1 and basic = $4718 - $4583 = $135
> ii. Rate of pay will be no lower than current rate $4663 + $135 = $4798
> iii. Rate of pay on promotion is nearest incentive equal to or above $4798 = 2Lt (2) or $4860



Just looked up that reference and it no longer says what is posted above and is now more confusing than ever.

Also, those who were accepted for UTPNCM in 2015 should also check with their ULO.  I just got an email saying that we have been grandfathered the simultaneous promotion to LT upon completion of university (if your previous rank was MCpl or above).  Talk about lucky.


----------



## sidemount

I got that email along with the signed letter and the list of us grandfathered....def a fan


----------



## busyinbrussels

I applied for the second time this year.  My choices were LOG, HCA and INT.

I know INT is impossible for me, but I needed a third choice.

Hoping that the information flows a bit quicker this year.  I only need 12 courses to finish off my degree, so really only need 1.5 years of subsidization.  

Good luck to everyone else that applied, well unless you applied for LOG.......


----------



## dapaterson

RatCatcher said:
			
		

> From what I understand last years late messages was due to issues outside of the program's control (read budgetary uncertainties). The lateness also placed stress upon the CM shops as it impacted posting plots etc. The info I received from the BPSO was that Ottawa wants to prevent that happening again but not to inquire regarding the application until May. That said, what happens in the Pentagon on the Rideau is anyone's guess.
> 
> For me a late reply may allow me to complete my ILP residential but that means that I would be taking the place of someone who would really need it (unless I don't get UTPNCM then I do need the qual).
> 
> Either way, the day to day job still needs to get done. It only took 18 years of service to decide what I want to do in the CAF...



I believe (but am not certain) that your pay protection on appointment as an OCdt is based on your substantive rank, not acting rank.  So getting ILP done will have an impact regardless of whether you get UTPNCM or not.

(CBI 204.211(10) doesn't specify whether "rank" is substantive or acting)


----------



## MasterInstructor

Just curious if anyone got an offer yet? CANFORGEN stated that offers would start coming in around March.


----------



## mariomike

For future reference, perhaps "UTPNCM 2016" will be merged with "UTPNCM" 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/106920.250
11 pages. Last reply March 15, 2016.


----------



## sidemount

Based on every other comp year, likely wont see messages until May.
The wait sucks..  trust me I know, I didnt get my message until almos mid June.


----------



## MasterInstructor

mariomike said:
			
		

> For future reference, perhaps "UTPNCM 2016" will be merged with "UTPNCM"
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/106920.250
> 11 pages. Last reply March 15, 2016.



I tried to find that thread... Not sure why it was moved to Recruting office from Occupational Transfers...


----------



## MasterInstructor

sidemount said:
			
		

> Based on every other comp year, likely wont see messages until May.
> The wait sucks..  trust me I know, I didnt get my message until almos mid June.



Thanks! They do send rejection messages too right? I have to pay some dues by June 1st...


----------



## sidemount

Yes, the rejection messages come after all the offer messages are done with. When I was rejected my first year applying I got that in July.


----------



## MasterInstructor

sidemount said:
			
		

> Yes, the rejection messages come after all the offer messages are done with. When I was rejected my first year applying I got that in July.



All I gotta pay is $200, if I get no message by June 1st, I would pay anyways... 

Did you do something different after your first rejection?


----------



## sidemount

I rewrote the cfat. The pso the first time simply told me I qualified. The one I saw last year flat out told me the score was not competitive enough to be selected.


----------



## MasterInstructor

sidemount said:
			
		

> I rewrote the cfat. The pso the first time simply told me I qualified. The one I saw last year flat out told me the score was not competitive enough to be selected.



Sweet! I am at 82 percentaile... It is good but not amazing.. We will see if its enough. 

I did 29/30 on problem solving, 11/15 in spatial and 7/15 in english ( English as a second language) 6 years ago...


----------



## sidemount

I went from 60 to 83. Thats what made the difference for me.


----------



## MasterInstructor

sidemount said:
			
		

> I went from 60 to 83. Thats what made the difference for me.



Well thats promissing! I am only 1 point lower than you as is right now 

What trade?


----------



## sidemount

I went from EO Tech to EME Officer


----------



## Hungover_cat

Hey! Been lurking the forums a couple of years, only just made an account!

I put in my first application this year after almost applying in 2011, but deciding not to submit the paperwork last minute.

I've applied for PAO and haven't heard anything yet. Not that that surprises me. I expect to hear about messages coming out towards the last week of April/first of May.

Best of luck to all.


----------



## Hungover_cat

Also, just because this hasn't been mentioned in the thread yet, the way the files are weighted changed from previous years.

Weighting used to be 30 pts for CFAT, 30 pts Leadership/Experience and 30 pts for the personality evaluation. This year, the files are weighted 60% CFAT, 25% Leadership/Experience and 15% for the personality evaluation.

Cheers,

HungoverCat


----------



## Hungover_cat

Just spoke with the BPSO. CFR messages just started coming in this week. They had an application deadline some time in November. She said UTPNCM messages might not come out for another month. 

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## busyinbrussels

Hungover_cat said:
			
		

> Just spoke with the BPSO. CFR messages just started coming in this week. They had an application deadline some time in November. She said UTPNCM messages might not come out for another month.



I can confirm that.  I applied for UTP-NCM this year for the second time but found out that my CO nominated me for CFR.  I received the CFR offer this week to be an Army Log O.  Super excited and plan on accepting the offer!


----------



## wolot

congratulations on getting your CFR


----------



## sidemount

busyinbrussels said:
			
		

> I can confirm that.  I applied for UTP-NCM this year for the second time but found out that my CO nominated me for CFR.  I received the CFR offer this week to be an Army Log O.  Super excited and plan on accepting the offer!


Awesome! 

Glad to hear it, congrats!


----------



## Hungover_cat

busyinbrussels said:
			
		

> I can confirm that.  I applied for UTP-NCM this year for the second time but found out that my CO nominated me for CFR.  I received the CFR offer this week to be an Army Log O.  Super excited and plan on accepting the offer!


Congrats! Is LogO what you were applying for going the UTPNCM route?


----------



## ps387

Hungover_cat said:
			
		

> Hey! Been lurking the forums a couple of years, only just made an account!
> 
> I put in my first application this year after almost applying in 2011, but deciding not to submit the paperwork last minute.
> 
> I've applied for PAO and haven't heard anything yet. Not that that surprises me. I expect to hear about messages coming out towards the last week of April/first of May.
> 
> Best of luck to all.



I won the PAO spot last year. I think I saw the message around mid-May, but of course every year is slightly different. Good luck.


----------



## Hungover_cat

ps said:
			
		

> I won the PAO spot last year. I think I saw the message around mid-May, but of course every year is slightly different. Good luck.


Hey! Glad to hear it! I hope the messages don't come out that late this year! What kind of background did you have going in, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## busyinbrussels

wolot said:
			
		

> congratulations on getting your CFR



Thanks


----------



## busyinbrussels

Hungover_cat said:
			
		

> Congrats! Is LogO what you were applying for going the UTPNCM route?



Absolutely was.  

I guess that takes me out of the UTP game and opens up more chances for someone else.

I only have 13 credits left to get my degree anyways.  Just means I can forget the economics thing and go for something a bit more user friendly.  Good luck everyone.


----------



## VALERIECANDACE

I received my message today for Nursing Officer via UTPNCM 
Good luck to all


----------



## Hungover_cat

Awesome news! Thanks for letting us know. Guess we can expect a lot more people to receive their messages this week. Congratulations and have fun going back to school!


----------



## Hungover_cat

Also got my offer for PAO today! OR got the message this morning.

Best of luck everyone!


----------



## Gandalfqc

busyinbrussels said:
			
		

> Absolutely was.
> 
> I guess that takes me out of the UTP game and opens up more chances for someone else.
> 
> I only have 13 credits left to get my degree anyways.  Just means I can forget the economics thing and go for something a bit more user friendly.  Good luck everyone.




I for one, am glad you are not competition anymore  I have 20 courses left so I thought I was solid until I saw you had even less. Congrats!


----------



## VALERIECANDACE

I'm currently a Cpl, selected for commissioning via UTP. 
Will become an OCdt first? Is this correct?
Does anyone know when the promotion to 2Lt occurs?

Thanks


----------



## Terrier

VALERIECANDACE said:
			
		

> I'm currently a Cpl, selected for commissioning via UTP.
> Will become an OCdt first? Is this correct?
> Does anyone know when the promotion to 2Lt occurs?
> 
> Thanks



OCdt until you graduate, then 2Lt. Congrats on the offer.


----------



## sidemount

A friend of mine just received an offer for MPO.
Good luck to those still waiting.


----------



## mkil

Not NCM UTP, but for anyone who applied under SCP, I received my offer for TDO today, so offers are starting to roll for that plan as well


----------



## Jorkapp

> offers are starting to roll for that plan as well



Confirmed. I got my offer today for Pilot under SCP!


----------



## DAA

:goodpost: :goodpost:





			
				Guy Incognito said:
			
		

> Confirmed. I got my offer today for Pilot under SCP!



 :goodpost:

Wow, don't see or hear of many of these.  Very well done indeed and good luck!


----------



## MasterInstructor

Its now coming up to May and I haven't heard anything... Just curious if anyone got an offer?


----------



## mariomike

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Its now coming up to May and I haven't heard anything... Just curious if anyone got an offer?



In case you are not already doing so, you may wish to keep an eye on a couple of other ongoing UTPNCM discussions,

NCM to Officer (UTPNCM) Merged Thread  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/82016.150
7 pages

UTPNCM
https://army.ca/forums/threads/106920.275.html
12 pages.


----------



## MasterInstructor

mariomike said:
			
		

> In case you are not already doing so, you may wish to keep an eye on a couple of other ongoing UTPNCM discussions,
> 
> NCM to Officer (UTPNCM) Merged Thread
> http://army.ca/forums/threads/82016.150
> 7 pages
> 
> UTPNCM
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/106920.275.html
> 12 pages.



Thanks! I was aware of one of them... Second one was quite useful!


----------



## mariomike

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Thanks! I was aware of one of them... Second one was quite useful!



You are welcome. Good luck.  

Perhaps they will be consolidated for reference.


----------



## Nordra

Got my offer on the 25 of Apr for PSO. Really looking foward to starting university this fall. Best of luck everyone!!  [


----------



## New_Guy24

Has anyone who accepted their offer gotten a reply back yet?

I got accepted to TDO.  I was SCP not UTPNCM though


----------



## Hungover_cat

New_Guy24 said:
			
		

> Has anyone who accepted their offer gotten a reply back yet?
> 
> I got accepted to TDO.  I was SCP not UTPNCM though


No answer on my end. Got my UTPNCM offer on the 25th, the message accepting the offer was sent out on the 28th. I don't expect a posting message to come out for another 2 weeks, realistically. Though it seems they try to get messages out quicker to those who need to move for school, based on previous years. Here's hoping! 

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## chidizzle

For those of you that received an offer, are you expected to use up all of your annual leave prior to starting school in September?


----------



## sidemount

You only want to gave enough leave for xmas....only need leave for spring break if you are leaving the country


----------



## sidemount

Once you get your posting message (it will be a few weeks after sending your acceptance) there will be ULO contact info...they are your first POC, get a hold of them and work out leave. (For people going to civy U)


----------



## MasterInstructor

I am waiting for LOGO and I did not get an offer yet. I am curious if I should be assuming that I did not make it this year.. 

Are offers send trade by trade? Are they all send all at once? 

Just trying to get an idea to see if I still stand a chance...


----------



## Trig

I also applied for LOG and have not received a reply. I'm going with it's a non selection for my own sanity, and prepping myself for next year's application. If I'm wrong -fantastic. But I felt like I was stagnant just waiting, so I'm back in planning mode. Good luck to you.


----------



## jitterbug

New SIP numbers released.  Not sure if all the 2016 UTPNCM/SCP messages have been sent out yet.


----------



## Trig

Messages are still coming out. I applied for both SCP and UTPNCM. Got my offer today for TRG DEV under the SCP. Takes me out of the running for HCA and LOG. Good luck!


----------



## jitterbug

Trig said:
			
		

> Messages are still coming out. I applied for both SCP and UTPNCM. Got my offer today for TRG DEV under the SCP. Takes me out of the running for HCA and LOG. Good luck!



Congrats!  Did you apply for all under both UTPNCM and SCP?  They would only allow me to apply for SCP for HCA even though I also wanted to apply for HCA under UTPNCM.  I have not heard of anyone getting HCA under any plan.  A friend of mine who is a shoe in candidate for CELE has not been contacted yet either so hopefully there are more messages to come.


----------



## Hungover_cat

Hit a snag this week when I called in to inquire about my posting message. When you apply, they say you need a letter of unconditional acceptance by 1JUL 16. Turns out what they really want is "Proof of Enrolment" which indicates you are registered for your classes full time for "whatever" degree program for "whatever" term and year. They won't send you a posting message without having received that. I'm glad I called in, because I had sent in my letter of acceptance with my application. 

Also, the COS dates on the posting messages will be for 15 AUG 16.

Congrats on the offer, Trig. 


Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## VALERIECANDACE

What if your class registration does not open up until Aug!!
So I already sent them my acceptance, the BPSO forwarded for me, this isn't what they want? Who did you contact? Thanks


----------



## Hungover_cat

VALERIECANDACE said:
			
		

> What if your class registration does not open up until Aug!!
> So I already sent them my acceptance, the BPSO forwarded for me, this isn't what they want? Who did you contact? Thanks


Give Mcpl Gelinas a call. Her number is indicated on the offer message you received. She'll sort you out. 

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## VALERIECANDACE

lol thanks


----------



## chidizzle

Has anyone received their posting message yet? What are the details?


----------



## Hungover_cat

chidizzle said:
			
		

> Has anyone received their posting message yet? What are the details?


What details are you looking for? From what I was told, none of the posting messages for UTPNCM are out yet.


----------



## jitterbug

Hungover_cat said:
			
		

> What details are you looking for? From what I was told, none of the posting messages for UTPNCM are out yet.



Some UTPNCM have got theirs and some SCP have got theirs but still many outstanding that have not yet received a YES or NO.  My PSO said if they don't hear anything by 7 Jun than they will contact Ottawa to find out wtf.


----------



## Hungover_cat

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Some UTPNCM have got theirs and some SCP have got theirs but still many outstanding that have not yet received a YES or NO.  My PSO said if they don't hear anything by 7 Jun than they will contact Ottawa to find out wtf.


I think you are confusing offers and posting messages. Offers have been out nearly a month. Some of them might not have gotten out yet and I have yet to hear of anyone receiving a non-acceptance message. 

What I was referring to were the posting messages, as Chidizzle inquired about. I was told none of them are out yet. I have a COS date of 30 Jun 16 and a FIN code for my posting was only requested last week. Most candidates will have COS dates of 15 Aug 16 - 2 weeks prior to commencing classes - unless they have special circumstances, in which case they should contact the clerk referred to in their offer. 

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## mkil

Hungover_cat said:
			
		

> I think you are confusing offers and posting messages. Offers have been out nearly a month. Some of them might not have gotten out yet and I have yet to hear of anyone receiving a non-acceptance message.



He isn't. Perhaps UTPNCM are still waiting on theirs but I and a few others around the country have received posting messages under SCP, and our COS date was yesterday.


----------



## Hungover_cat

mkil said:
			
		

> He isn't. Perhaps UTPNCM are still waiting on theirs but I and a few others around the country have received posting messages under SCP, and our COS date was yesterday.


Sorry, I should've specified UTPNCM. SCP has different timetables and is administrated by different staff.


----------



## VALERIECANDACE

I'm UTPNCM, I was told from Ottawa my posting message would be out last week with a COS 15 AUG. No posting message yet  But I have no move to make so I'm good.


----------



## Blue93

I was told that they requested but are waiting for the FIN Code. Should be another week or two yet. Cost moves will likely be priority.


----------



## Jorkapp

mkil said:
			
		

> He isn't. Perhaps UTPNCM are still waiting on theirs but I and a few others around the country have received posting messages under SCP, and our COS date was yesterday.



Huh. I got my message (SCP) a couple days ago, and my COS date is 15 July. I wonder why they're so different.


----------



## gcclarke

Guy Incognito said:
			
		

> Huh. I got my message (SCP) a couple days ago, and my COS date is 15 July. I wonder why they're so different.



Because the UTP folks need to be in place for the start of the school year, but would be killing time doing nothing if sent a month earlier.

The SCP postings aren't tied to the start of a typical school year, since they're don't need another degree. 

Different posting dates for different programs with different requirements.


----------



## Blue93

UTP Posting Msgs have just started to come up on ACIMS. Good luck to all on your moves!


----------



## Hungover_cat

Blue93 said:
			
		

> UTP Posting Msgs have just started to come up on ACIMS. Good luck to all on your moves!


Thanks for the update!


----------



## Hungover_cat

I received my posting message today. Confirmed to be the first UTP cost move done up, so if anyone else is in the same boat, expect it to come down the tube soon enough. 

One question regarding the content of the message: a FIN code is listed and there is a separate envelope provided for tuition, books and "pp&s". What exactly is "pp&s"? Hopefully a clerk or someone who's been through the process can chime in. 

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## George Wallace

Pens, Paper and staples......or something to that effect.  All your school and administrative needs to write, type or take notes.


----------



## mariomike

Hungover_cat said:
			
		

> What exactly is "pp&s"?



To add to what George said,

pp&s
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+pp%26s&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=KnlXV62WNsyC8QeSgIOgCg&gws_rd=ssl
"We get $100 a year for Paper, Pens & Supplies (PP&S),"


----------



## Hungover_cat

Edited for answer provided.


----------



## jitterbug

Still haven't heard from Ottawa whether its a yay or nay for SCP.  I'm assuming a nay at this point but there are others waiting as well.  Ridiculous!


----------



## hitchy_11

I have heard that utpncm is very difficult to obtain acceptance to. I've been in for 12 years and have 1 year left in my Bach business admin. I'm trying to go HCA. Would it be easier to get accepted through SCP as opposed to utpncm?

* I apologize for typing and grammatical errors, I'm on my phone *


----------



## hitchy_11

Anyone know what I take numbers were this year for utp or scp?

Curious about hca

Also I have a year left on my degree and am intending on going hca would it be easier to go scp rather than utpncm?


----------



## mariomike

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> would it be easier to go scp rather than utpncm?



See also from hitchy_11,

Which is easier to commission? SCP OR UTPNCM  
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123550/post-1444416.html#msg1444416


----------



## mariomike

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> Would it be easier to get accepted through SCP as opposed to utpncm?



See also from hitchy_11 



			
				hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> would it be easier to go scp rather than utpncm?


----------



## sidemount

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> Anyone know what I take numbers were this year for utp or scp?
> 
> Curious about hca
> 
> Also I have a year left on my degree and am intending on going hca would it be easier to go scp rather than utpncm?



for Fiscal Year 16/17
SIP has 0 spots for SCP and 2 spots for UTPNCM in HCA


----------



## ModlrMike

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> Anyone know what I take numbers were this year for utp or scp?
> 
> Curious about hca
> 
> Also I have a year left on my degree and am intending on going hca would it be easier to go scp rather than utpncm?



If you have a year left now, you'll be finished before the selection process for UTPNCM is done.


----------



## hitchy_11

sidemount said:
			
		

> for Fiscal Year 16/17
> SIP has 0 spots for SCP and 2 spots for UTPNCM in HCA


Does this mean that no one applied for SCP or they did not assign any openings for that program? (still new to this process, I appreciate any knowledge)


----------



## DAA

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> Does this mean that no one applied for SCP or they did not assign any openings for that program? (still new to this process, I appreciate any knowledge)



It means that when the SCP was announced, HCA was not an available occupation which you could apply for.   SCP occupation vacancies change on an annual basis and available occupations are normally announced via a CANFORGEN Message.  So if occupations you are interested in are not published, you wouldn't be able to apply.


----------



## sidemount

Generally means there are not spots available. (cant seem to access the SIP today)
However, wait and see what the canforgen says when it comes out. Last years message said they were taking HCA (didn't say how many, and always subject to change.)

You should really make an appointment with your local PSO and discuss your plans, they will have the best info for you.


----------



## sidemount

Just an add on, the SCP CANFORGEN for the 2017 competition has been released and HCA is on it. (CANFORGEN 111/16). The SIP still has 0 spots listed. So with saying that, definitely go see you PSO, they can show you the best way forward.


----------



## ModlrMike

Don't you have to be completed your degree to qualify for SCP? I think the OP said that he had a year left.


----------



## sidemount

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> Don't you have to be completed your degree to qualify for SCP? I think the OP said that he had a year left.



And here is where it is a bit tricky, with only a year left the OP would be finished the degree prior to the actual messages being cut for both SCP and UTPNCM. (they come out May ish of the competition year)

So right off the hop, UTPNCM is pretty useless as they will be finished the degree prior to selection. But how that would work with SCP, having the degree completed likely at the same time as the board sits, is a grey area and I have no idea how that would work. 

Like I had said, the PSO is the best place to go with that one.


----------



## DAA

sidemount said:
			
		

> Just an add on, the SCP CANFORGEN for the 2017 competition has been released and HCA is on it. (CANFORGEN 111/16). The SIP still has 0 spots listed. So with saying that, definitely go see you PSO, they can show you the best way forward.



The 2016/2017 SIP is for "current" year and won't necessarily apply to the above announced program which would be applicable for 2017/2018.  Maybe the "Out Year" SIP will show positions but I doubt it as it usually seems to reflect prior year requirements and is some what repetitious at best.

But if the CANFORGEN has it listed, then it's an available option.  Like "sidemount" mentions, contact your local BPSO Office and start asking questions.    Good luck!


----------



## jitterbug

DAA said:
			
		

> It means that when the SCP was announced, HCA was not an available occupation which you could apply for.   SCP occupation vacancies change on an annual basis and available occupations are normally announced via a CANFORGEN Message.  So if occupations you are interested in are not published, you wouldn't be able to apply.



That is not necessarily true.  I specifically asked the PSO regarding occupations in the CANFORGEN that had 0 numbers in the SIP and she said it didn't matter as they needed people so according to her the SIP numbers aren't necessarily accurate as they can move numbers around depending on the number of applicants they get for the various Officer entry plans.


----------



## DAA

jitterbug said:
			
		

> That is not necessarily true.  I specifically asked the PSO regarding occupations in the CANFORGEN that had 0 numbers in the SIP and she said it didn't matter as they needed people so according to her the SIP numbers aren't necessarily accurate as they can move numbers around depending on the number of applicants they get for the various Officer entry plans.



You must have missed my later post.



			
				DAA said:
			
		

> The 2016/2017 SIP is for "current" year and won't necessarily apply to the above announced program which would be applicable for 2017/2018.  Maybe the "Out Year" SIP will show positions but I doubt it as it usually seems to reflect prior year requirements and is some what repetitious at best.
> 
> But if the CANFORGEN has it listed, then it's an available option.


----------



## hitchy_11

This may sound weird but can you request (through the PSO) to be considered for CEOTP? From what I have heard they stopped offering CEOTP for pilots because no one was getting their degree. However the HCA is very red! and at %77... 
I am very impatient and would very much like to begin the next chapter of my military career as an HCA.
I understand this sounds ridiculous but stranger things have happened in the military.
Any speculation or information helps.

Thanks again for all your help and guidance!


----------



## ModlrMike

I have a few questions first, before I go into my next suggestion. Your profile is pretty sparse, so...

1. What trade are you currently?
2. What rank are your currently?
3. How much service do you both currently have, and expect to serve?

Once I have those answers, I might have some different advice for you.


----------



## hitchy_11

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> 1. What trade are you currently?
> 2. What rank are your currently?
> 3. How much service do you both currently have, and expect to serve?



1.AVN
2.Cpl
3. I have 12 in already (reg force) and joined at 17. I would like to go to 60 years old. but as of right now I'm still in IE25 I believe its called and have 13 left on my contract.


----------



## ModlrMike

OK then. So from the information you've provided, you should be able to continue your quest. I would recommend that you find a serving HCA to help you. That person can reach out to the HCA CM and perhaps provide you with current info WRT the occupation, and maybe some suggestions on how to attain your goal. If you don't have one at your location, PM me. The challenge for you at this juncture, is that you're too far along in your degree for UTPNCM, and not far enough for SCP. Don't worry too much about the SIP, the CM can usually manage one off instances notwithstanding.


----------



## hitchy_11

So after talking to the PSO's assistant, 0 intakes for SCP (16 applied) this year (16/17) and 2 for UTPNCM... it seems as though they are taking 4 DEO and 13 ROTP...
It sounds like I would have a better chance getting out and getting back in but that is quite the gamble... I still may not even get accepted.
Are there any instances where anyone has heard of the selection board saying "yes we'll taking him ROTP, have him release and rejoin"


----------



## ModlrMike

DO NOT release and rejoin. You would screw up your benefits. 

As I said, find an HCA to give you some onsite assistance before you take any further action. Back channel solutions may be an option.


----------



## hitchy_11

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> As I said, find an HCA to give you some onsite assistance before you take any further action. Back channel solutions may be an option.



Just sat down and explained my situation to my SGT.. thanks again for your help. He is going to call and see if he can get me an interview with an HCA from the hospital here in WPG.


----------



## dapaterson

As stated,  SIP is regularly adjusted for any number or reasons.  Release/rejoin is never guaranteed.  For example,  if your med cat is now below the enrolment standard but still meets your target occupation 's category,  releasing would mean you could not get back in.


----------



## crumplestiltskin

First - I tried searching and read through all 21 pages of the NCM to Officer (UTP) thread without finding the answer I'm looking for, so if this info is somewhere on the page already, apologies but I did not see it....

With the recent opening of the commissioning plan competitions for the 2017 year I've begun looking to apply for the UTPNCM.

There's one potential sticking point in the eligibility requirements that I've been unable to get a solid answer on: the need to have 2 full year (or 4 one term) university credits or equivalent completed with results in prior to 30 Jan.

I asked the PLAR section at RMC whether things like the POET course which are PLAR'd for 1 full year credit would count toward this requirement. The guy told me he didn't think so and to consult the BPSO.

So I did. The PSO said he interpreted the "or equivalent" to mean that PLAR credits could/should count and that he would argue the case if it came to that.

Through U of Manitoba I can PLAR 5 one term credits (15 credit hours) for various things from courses to experience/rank but I'm still registering for 2 one term courses between Sept-Dec this fall to prove I can actually manage real university level courses.

This however, will only give me 2 one term credits if PLAR credits do not count.
----------------------------------------

That's enough background - if anyone out there has experience with the UTP - _specifically whether PLAR credits can count toward the education requirement_ - I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks!


----------



## DAA

crumplestiltskin said:
			
		

> That's enough background - if anyone out there has experience with the UTP - _specifically whether PLAR credits can count toward the education requirement_ - I'd love to hear from you.



I'm pretty sure they are going to want to see "actual" courses completed and not course credits granted for prior CF training.  The reason behind this requirement, is primarily to demonstrate your ability to be successful in a post secondary academic setting.  PLAR'd credits won't do this.


----------



## Thermal

DAA said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure they are going to want to see "actual" courses completed and not course credits granted for prior CF training.  The reason behind this requirement, is primarily to demonstrate your ability to be successful in a post secondary academic setting.  PLAR'd credits won't do this.



I can confirm this. I had the POET qualification and had it PLAR'ed at RMC, but the PLAR'ed credits - although they are university credits - were not considered as completed university credits as far as my UTPNCM application was concerned. Because they were credit granted from the previous military education/training not from an actual university course from other institutions.


----------



## sidemount

Confirmed as well, when I did my utpncm, POET PLAR did not count towards the required credits.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## chidizzle

Does anyone have experience/information about going on maternity / parental leave during school?


----------



## mariomike

chidizzle said:
			
		

> Does anyone have experience/information about going on maternity / parental leave during school?



This may help,

All Things MATA/PATA (merged) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/39902.150
8 pages.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Hi All;

I applied for UTPNCM for the previous competition year and I still haven't heard anything. I am not expecting an offer at this point however I would like to see my rejection message just to make sure my file was not lost, I was actually considered etc. I also would like to know how many point I scored and how close I was. 

Of course I will contact the BPSO but before I do, I am curious if anyone is still waiting and when if / when others got their rejection messages. 

cheers


----------



## MasterInstructor

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Hi All;
> 
> I applied for UTPNCM for the previous competition year and I still haven't heard anything. I am not expecting an offer at this point however I would like to see my rejection message just to make sure my file was not lost, I was actually considered etc. I also would like to know how many point I scored and how close I was.
> 
> Of course I will contact the BPSO but before I do, I am curious if anyone is still waiting and when if / when others got their rejection messages.
> 
> cheers



I contacted the BPSO and they confirmed that they did not receive a response from Ottawa. Local BPSO sent a inquiry to Ottawa 4 business days ago and there is still no response. I am getting the feeling that I was not fairly considered by the board for my application due to some sort of human error. 

What are my options at this point? Any suggestions or advice?


----------



## Hungover_cat

Hate to say it, but I really don't see this as being like promotion boards where they'll hold a special board if someone was left out. I hope it isn't the case, but shit does happen. 

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## ridsteram

Hello all just a quick question about the scoring/selection process and how it works.

I was told when I went to the UTPNCM brief that scoring was based out of 100 and top candidates win. 60 points being aptitude, 15 being personality test, and 25 being interview. 

My question is... What if I had a good write up from my CO and a fairly good score, and someone else scored higher then me (maybe they have a really high aptitude) out of 100, but got a not recommended from their CO. Would they be the ones who get selected? Where does the CO's write up come into play in the process?


----------



## hitchy_11

Hey Guys,
So I re took my CFAT test and passed with 2 marks over the cut-off for officer, not great but it gets me in the door ( I forgot to study multiplying fractions!). Does anyone know of anyone else who was accepted to the UTPNCM program with an average CFAT?

I am kind of nervous about not knocking it out of the park and wondering if I should re take it for a 3rd time?


----------



## Hungover_cat

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> Hey Guys,
> So I re took my CFAT test and passed with 2 marks over the cut-off for officer, not great but it gets me in the door ( I forgot to study multiplying fractions!). Does anyone know of anyone else who was accepted to the UTPNCM program with an average CFAT?
> 
> I am kind of nervous about not knocking it out of the park and wondering if I should re take it for a 3rd time?


Your CFAT is the single most important score on your application worth 60 per cent of your total grade. Candidates who make it through typically score high. Don't forget that it's a competition. 

That being said, it's one score out of three factored in a total grade. If you meet the criteria, you can submit your file, but a passing mark isn't necessarily competitive enough to make it. 

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## sidemount

Just to put it in perspective my first and second time applying, I had a cfat score in the 62 percentile for officers (well above cutoff). I was not chosen. I went to the pso in Pet and was flat out told that while I qualify I was not nearly competitive enough. So I retook the cfat and scored in the 92 percentile. I was selected that year for the one EME spot.
The CFAT will make or break your application in my opinion.

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## hitchy_11

So having re done my cfat I only have one more opportunity to retake it in my career and that requires taking a course to upgrade my math. Hopefully I get accepted of course but I don't think I will, I beat the cut-off by two marks. It was a vast improvement from when I was 17 and originally took it but I understand I am competing against others. It almost seems as though trying to go DEO or ROTP is a much easier route.


----------



## Hungover_cat

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> So having re done my cfat I only have one more opportunity to retake it in my career and that requires taking a course to upgrade my math. Hopefully I get accepted of course but I don't think I will, I beat the cut-off by two marks. It was a vast improvement from when I was 17 and originally took it but I understand I am competing against others. It almost seems as though trying to go DEO or ROTP is a much easier route.


Hi Hitchy, 

Both UTPNCM and CEOTP are extremely competitive processes in which candidates compete for a very small number of positions, usually 1-3 depending on the occupation. Going the DEO or ROTP route will, if I'm not mistaken, involve releasing from the CAF first. While the number of positions available for DEO applicants is much higher than the other programs, it does mean you have to go out on a limb to complete a portion (ROTP) or all (DEO) of the education on your own time and dime. 

It might be a good idea to look into upgrading your math and taking the CFAT a third time. Many universities offer basic math courses either in house or as distance education. You would be able to complete them while keeping your job. 

Another point I will stress is that your entry in any of these programs will be a long process which will require planning years in advance. There is no quick solution. Take the time, upgrade your math, keep working on gaining leadership experience or experience in the field you wish to work in and create a game plan for a 2 year period working up to your application. 

Just my $0.02

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


----------



## ridsteram

Just did my interview today! the waiting game begins...


----------



## regulator12

Indeed it does! I completed the application process prior to Christmas. Hoping the boards sit early haha! Does anyone know if during the selection boards if they simply pick files based on your score or do they read the narratives plus the scores to make their decision.


----------



## sidemount

Scores are the big thing...but everything is read and taken into consideration.

Get ready for a long wait...when have you ever seen the CAF do anything early....late is a safer bet. If selected expect somewhere around mid to end may.
Good luck!

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## khan.mu2

My file went to ottawa mid dec and i got an email bak jan 5th to go for aircrew selection. what ive personally learnt n seen is your recomendation from ur CO and PSO play the biggest role in your selection. MY CFAT score was at the cut off line. But i had 18 career development courses and alot of  volunteer work and my chain of command really supported me. i even had a probation on my record but looking at my CoC recommendation PSO did mention that the probation wont matter.  another member i know didnt have the greatest interview with the pso, didnt no any trade specs but had an award from the wing Commander for volunteering, also got a call for aircrew selection. so it varies from trade to trade and how many ppl they want n how good u did outside work. 
CO's recommendation could be, POSSESSES OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES, FIT FOR AN OFFICER, RECOMMENDED, or HES THE BEST WORKER WE HAVE, WE DO NOT WANT TO LET HIM GO BUT HE DESERVES TO GO HIGHER. STRONGLY RECOMMENDED TO BE AN OFFICER. This can help you a lot how your chain of command writes about you. Its your right to apply so they wont say no to you but the recommendation letter would say what they think about you.


----------



## sidemount

If, during your interview with the pso, you are found suitable for an air crew trade, you will go to air crew selection. It doesnt mean you will be selected. You must pass acs for your file to go to the utpncm selection board for that air crew trade. If you do not pass acs, the pso at the acs center in trenton will remove the air crew trade from your application right there before returning your file to ottawa

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## khan.mu2

sidemount said:
			
		

> If, during your interview with the pso, you are found suitable for an air crew trade, you will go to air crew selection. It doesnt mean you will be selected. You must pass acs for your file to go to the utpncm selection board for that air crew trade. If you do not pass acs, the pso at the acs center in trenton will remove the air crew trade from your application right there before returning your file to ottawa
> 
> Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk



Hmm. according to the pso the only people who get invitation for ASC are the people who are picked by the selection board and if u pass ASC mean 99% u r in. they only send people for ASC who r selected. but it wont be the first time PSO didnt pass on the right info.


----------



## sidemount

airforce101 said:
			
		

> Hmm. according to the pso the only people who get invitation for ASC are the people who are picked by the selection board and if u pass ASC mean 99% u r in. they only send people for ASC who r selected. but it wont be the first time PSO didnt pass on the right info.



That would mean that the selection boards have already sat....which they haven't. I was in this exact same scenario 2 years ago. I was found suitable for pilot during my interview with the PSO, file sent to DMCA (think they are still called that). They scheduled me for ACS. When I did not pass ACS, I saw the PSO that they have right at the ACS center. He told me that my file would not be considered for the Pilot selection board but would still be eligible for the other 2 trades. My file was sent back to DMCA noted as no longer suitable for pilot. My file still went to the other boards and I was selected for another trade.


----------



## regulator12

airforce101 said:
			
		

> Hmm. according to the pso the only people who get invitation for ASC are the people who are picked by the selection board and if u pass ASC mean 99% u r in. they only send people for ASC who r selected. but it wont be the first time PSO didnt pass on the right info.


If I am not mistaken the boards have not even convened yet. The UTPNCM application deadline to Ottawa is 31 January. Unless they do aircrew selections earlier?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## khan.mu2

Yes for aircrew deadline was dec 16th. Thats wat i asked the PSO that y don't they send everyone suitable for ASC and then select she said they select first and then send top 3 people for pilot because there are 3 positions for pilot this year. if some one from that list fails then next person in the list goes for ASC. they can not afford to send everyone applying for pilot, ACSO or AEC for aircrew selection. the message i got to go to aircrew selection was from some captain in ottawa telling me to send my info to given email address in borden to put me on ASC course and gave me 2 dates available. one in end of jan and one end of feb. 
@ sidemount.  So wat happened to ur application? did u pick from the other trades or waited to do ASC again? and do u have any suggestions for asc?  thank you


----------



## khan.mu2

sorry just noticed u said u got selected for another trade. did you have non aircrew trades in your list? i have all aircrew trades.


----------



## sidemount

airforce101 said:
			
		

> Yes for aircrew deadline was dec 16th. Thats wat i asked the PSO that y don't they send everyone suitable for ASC and then select she said they select first and then send top 3 people for pilot because there are 3 positions for pilot this year. if some one from that list fails then next person in the list goes for ASC. they can not afford to send everyone applying for pilot, ACSO or AEC for aircrew selection. the message i got to go to aircrew selection was from some captain in ottawa telling me to send my info to given email address in borden to put me on ASC course and gave me 2 dates available. one in end of jan and one end of feb.
> @ sidemount.  So wat happened to ur application? did u pick from the other trades or waited to do ASC again? and do u have any suggestions for asc?  thank you



So what trade are you going to ACS for? Because if the boards already sat, then you were picked for one trade, not all 3. It would suck if you were picked for pilot, but only passed for ASCO or air traffic control officer and not have an offer for those 2 trades since they were already filled. See what I mean? The boards for any of the air crew trades have not sat. 

What happened with my application is, it gets sent back to DMC with only the other 2 non aircrew trade options as being suitable for selection. You don't get pick a new trade as you would have to go through an entire new interview for that particular trade. Also, you have to wait a full year before attempting ACS again.

I was selected for one of the non-aircrew trades I had picked.


----------



## George Wallace

airforce101 said:
			
		

> My file went to ottawa mid dec and i got an email bak jan 5th to go for aircrew selection. what ive personally learnt n seen is your recomendation from ur CO and PSO play the biggest role in your selection. MY CFAT score was at the cut off line. But i had 18 career development courses and alot of  volunteer work and my chain of command really supported me. i even had a probation on my record but looking at my CoC recommendation PSO did mention that the probation wont matter.  another member i know didnt have the greatest interview with the pso, didnt no any trade specs but had an award from the wing Commander for volunteering, also got a call for aircrew selection. so it varies from trade to trade and how many ppl they want n how good u did outside work.
> CO's recommendation could be, POSSESSES OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES, FIT FOR AN OFFICER, RECOMMENDED, or HES THE BEST WORKER WE HAVE, WE DO NOT WANT TO LET HIM GO BUT HE DESERVES TO GO HIGHER. STRONGLY RECOMMENDED TO BE AN OFFICER. This can help you a lot how your chain of command writes about you. Its your right to apply so they wont say no to you but the recommendation letter would say what they think about you.



Please......For the love of God....Prove to us that you are indeed educated and know how to write in English using correct grammar, spelling, punctuation and knowledge of what the SHIFT KEY is for.

Thanks


----------



## khan.mu2

sidemount said:
			
		

> So what trade are you going to ACS for? Because if the boards already sat, then you were picked for one trade, not all 3. It would suck if you were picked for pilot, but only passed for ASCO or air traffic control officer and not have an offer for those 2 trades since they were already filled. See what I mean? The boards for any of the air crew trades have not sat.
> 
> What happened with my application is, it gets sent back to DMC with only the other 2 non aircrew trade options as being suitable for selection. You don't get pick a new trade as you would have to go through an entire new interview for that particular trade. Also, you have to wait a full year before attempting ACS again.
> 
> I was selected for one of the non-aircrew trades I had picked.



what pso told me was they see if you are good enough to be an officer and qualify for the trade you have applied for they send you for ASC. the other member applied asked for ACSO  as the first preference and he got the call for ASC as well. i duno all this is confusing i am hearing alot of different things from diff places. Lets see. i will let u no wat happens if i pass or dont pass since my first preference is pilot then acso and aec. i also heard if u donot apply for pilot just acso and aec the pso tests you for acso and aec selection which is only speed, time, distance and fuel consumption.


----------



## sidemount

airforce101 said:
			
		

> what pso told me was they see if you are good enough to be an officer and qualify for the trade you have applied for they send you for ASC. the other member applied asked for ACSO  as the first preference and he got the call for ASC as well. i duno all this is confusing i am hearing alot of different things from diff places. Lets see. i will let u no wat happens if i pass or dont pass since my first preference is pilot then acso and aec. i also heard if u donot apply for pilot just acso and aec the pso tests you for acso and aec selection which is only speed, time, distance and fuel consumption.


The first line you wrote there, 100% yes thats how it works. You haven't been selected but you could be, so you get acs.

Best of luck with acs as it is tough...wear comfortable shoes 


Btw everyone will go through all the tests not just the ones for their trade...the fun part is you wont know which ones are for which until your debrief.

Sent from my Samsung S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ridsteram

So what trades are you guys going for? Is anyone else out there going for CELE this year?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

airforce101 said:
			
		

> i also heard if u donot apply for pilot just acso and aec the pso tests you for acso and aec selection which is only speed, time, distance and fuel consumption.



Just so you know, only Pilot and ACSO are aircrew trades.  AEC is an Air Ops trade, but not aircrew; some, a% of them, might get a flying job, but they're just controllers etc and not involved with actually flying/employing the airplane like Pilots and ACSOs are. (i.e. flight crew vice aircrew).  Sort of like how all Loadmasters (traffic techs by trade) are flight crew (specialized) vice Aircrew (Pilots, ACSOs, Flight Engineers, SAR Techs and AES Ops).

Good luck!


----------



## regulator12

When do the boards typically sit? 

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----------



## jitterbug

ridsteram said:
			
		

> So what trades are you guys going for? Is anyone else out there going for CELE this year?



I'm going for HCA, LOG, TDEV.  I know a guy going for CELE.  He placed 2nd last year for the one position and will likely get it this year but you never know.


----------



## ridsteram

How does he know he got second? I know one guy that got accepted for CELE last year and he said they hired two.... 

Edit: If you don't mind me asking as well what trade/rank is he?


----------



## jitterbug

ridsteram said:
			
		

> How does he know he got second? I know one guy that got accepted for CELE last year and he said they hired two....
> 
> Edit: If you don't mind me asking as well what trade/rank is he?



He was ATIS Tech Cpl.


----------



## kimbrian

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> I have heard that utpncm is very difficult to obtain acceptance to. I've been in for 12 years and have 1 year left in my Bach business admin. I'm trying to go HCA. Would it be easier to get accepted through SCP as opposed to utpncm?
> 
> * I apologize for typing and grammatical errors, I'm on my phone *



Hi! To clarify, UTPNCM is for junior NCM mbrs usually offered to Cpl/LS with PLQ and observed potential to excel as an officer. Application is done for this, and one requires blessings from his unit CO. When all paperwork is good, UTPNCM is just like ROTP for RegF NCM mbrs. CFR, commission from ranks, is for PO2 and up who wish to commission to officer trade related to their current/previous trade and experience (ex. clerk to Log O, or WEng Tech to CSE O). They don't need a degree; they're just commissioned. According to the reference (which I don't remember on top of my head), PO2 becomes ASLt, PO1 gets SLt, CPO2 or CPO1 can get Lt(N). SCP, special commission plan, is for old chiefs and chief warrants. It's for high-end snr NCM's, usually CPO2 or CPO1, and it is usually offered to them. They start off as SLt or Lt(N).

FYI! Hope that helped.


----------



## RatCatcher

Actually that is factually incorrect. 

UTPNCM is open to all NCMs who have reached OFP. You have to have at least four university credits and be accepted for full time studies at RMC or other Canadian University in a program listed for your chosen Officer occupation (for example an Arts degree is probably not acceptable for An engineering occupation).  It is competitive. 

CFR is a nomination plan (CO must nominate based on the mbrs experience and leadership potential). Normally within their branch but may be recommended to an unaffiliated occupation with a waiver.

SCP is open for any NCM at OFP possesing a degree acceptable for the chosen officer occupation. Mbr must apply, be recommended by CO & BPSO and it can be competitive.

Special Requirements Commissioning Plan is for CWO or CPO1s to commission.

As a WO I have applied twice for UTPNCM including this years competition. I was not picked up the first time. All Officer production plans are competitive as there are limited spots (last year PAO had one opening for UTPNCM and one or two for SCP).

 I recommend speaking to your BPSO to find the best plan to apply for, they are the experts and I have not been led astray in my 20 years...


----------



## kimbrian

RatCatcher said:
			
		

> Actually that is factually incorrect.
> 
> UTPNCM is open to all NCMs who have reached OFP. You have to have at least four university credits and be accepted for full time studies at RMC or other Canadian University in a program listed for your chosen Officer occupation (for example an Arts degree is probably not acceptable for An engineering occupation).  It is competitive.
> 
> CFR is a nomination plan (CO must nominate based on the mbrs experience and leadership potential). Normally within their branch but may be recommended to an unaffiliated occupation with a waiver.
> 
> SCP is open for any NCM at OFP possesing a degree acceptable for the chosen officer occupation. Mbr must apply, be recommended by CO & BPSO and it can be competitive.
> 
> Special Requirements Commissioning Plan is for CWO or CPO1s to commission.
> 
> As a WO I have applied twice for UTPNCM including this years competition. I was not picked up the first time. All Officer production plans are competitive as there are limited spots (last year PAO had one opening for UTPNCM and one or two for SCP).
> 
> I recommend speaking to your BPSO to find the best plan to apply for, they are the experts and I have not been led astray in my 20 years...



Thank you for the correction! I now know correctly.


----------



## ridsteram

RatCatcher said:
			
		

> Actually that is factually incorrect.
> 
> UTPNCM is open to all NCMs who have reached OFP. You have to have at least four university credits and be accepted for full time studies at RMC or other Canadian University in a program listed for your chosen Officer occupation (for example an Arts degree is probably not acceptable for An engineering occupation).  It is competitive.
> 
> CFR is a nomination plan (CO must nominate based on the mbrs experience and leadership potential). Normally within their branch but may be recommended to an unaffiliated occupation with a waiver.
> 
> SCP is open for any NCM at OFP possesing a degree acceptable for the chosen officer occupation. Mbr must apply, be recommended by CO & BPSO and it can be competitive.
> 
> Special Requirements Commissioning Plan is for CWO or CPO1s to commission.
> 
> As a WO I have applied twice for UTPNCM including this years competition. I was not picked up the first time. All Officer production plans are competitive as there are limited spots (last year PAO had one opening for UTPNCM and one or two for SCP).
> 
> I recommend speaking to your BPSO to find the best plan to apply for, they are the experts and I have not been led astray in my 20 years...



This is wrong too. You actually only need two full university credits to be eligible for UTPNCM. The requirements are as follows:

Citizenship - An applicant must be a Canadian citizen or, if a landed immigrant, meet the requirements of DAOD 5002-1.
•Component - The UTPNCM is open to members of the Regular Force only.Terms of Service (TOS) - TOS eligibility requirements are suspended IAW ref B, until such time as a policy review is conducted. At present, potential applicants must be able to complete their current TOS within all periods of academic study or obligatory service; if deemed insufficient, appropriate TOS shall be offered to the applicant and come into effect only upon commissioning.
•Period of Remaining Service - An applicant must be able to complete all periods of academic training and obligatory service in accordance with DAOD 5049-1, Obligatory Service, prior to completing an intermediate engagement of either 20 or 25 years of service or a Fixed Period of Service that gives them 20 years of combined (previous and current) Regular Force service.
•Rank - Each applicant must be substantive Cpl or higher by the closing date of competition. Substantive is defined as holding both the requisite rank and military qualification for that rank. According to Ref A para 3, CF officers are ineligible for the UTPNCM program.
•Pre-Entry Test - Applicants must meet the minimum Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) standard for commissioning.
•Medical Standards - An applicant must meet minimum military occupation structure medical standards in accordance with ADM (HR-Mil) Instruction 11/04. (See also CFP 154 Annex E) The applicant's medical profile must be awarded or confirmed within the 12 month period immediately prior to the competition closing date.
•Physical Fitness - IAW refs F and G, each applicant must pass a physical fitness evaluation within one year of the application deadline, or within two years if the applicant has achieved either: an exemption standard under the CF Express Incentive Program; or any applicable environmental or occupation standard that is equal to or higher than the minimum personal fitness standard, such as the Land Force Command Physical Fitness Standard.
•Academic Standards - An applicant must successfully complete a minimum of two full credit university courses or their equivalent, and admissible to an accredited Canadian university. Applicants may not normally possess a university degree or diploma that would otherwise meet acceptable CF Entry Standards under the Special Commissioning Plan for a specific occupation. Academic courses in progress will be considered only if final marks are made available to DMCPG 5-2 by 30 Jan of the competition year.


----------



## sidemount

If you look at what they conside a full course, its a course that spans a full fall and winter semester. For the vast majority of university courses, they only cover half that. This is where the 4 courses comes from.

edit to add from the DAOD:

Academic Requirements

3.3 An applicant is also required to meet the following academic requirements to be eligible for the UTPNCM:

have successfully completed a minimum of two full-credit baccalaureate level courses or equivalent during the ten-year period preceding the date of application;
Note – A full-credit course, e.g. six credit hours, is normally taken during the September-April academic period and extends through both fall and winter semesters. A course covering one semester, e.g. September-December or January-April, with the final examination in December or April, is normally a half-credit course, e.g. three credit hours.

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----------



## wolot

Anyone get an offer yet?


----------



## regulator12

I've heard the boards haven't sat yet for UTP. Hopefully soon!

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----------



## winnipegoo7

I got accepted to UTPNCM last year. Message was dated 25 Apr 2016


----------



## busyinbrussels

And for those that also got nominated through the CFR channel I got my offer last year on 7 April (best birthday present ever)


----------



## Pagan

airforce101 said:
			
		

> My file went to ottawa mid dec and i got an email bak jan 5th to go for aircrew selection. what ive personally learnt n seen is your recomendation from ur CO and PSO play the biggest role in your selection. MY CFAT score was at the cut off line. But i had 18 career development courses and alot of  volunteer work and my chain of command really supported me. i even had a probation on my record but looking at my CoC recommendation PSO did mention that the probation wont matter.  another member i know didnt have the greatest interview with the pso, didnt no any trade specs but had an award from the wing Commander for volunteering, also got a call for aircrew selection. so it varies from trade to trade and how many ppl they want n how good u did outside work.
> CO's recommendation could be, POSSESSES OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES, FIT FOR AN OFFICER, RECOMMENDED, or HES THE BEST WORKER WE HAVE, WE DO NOT WANT TO LET HIM GO BUT HE DESERVES TO GO HIGHER. STRONGLY RECOMMENDED TO BE AN OFFICER. This can help you a lot how your chain of command writes about you. Its your right to apply so they wont say no to you but the recommendation letter would say what they think about you.



A101, just so you know going to ACS is just part of the process.  I went to Trenton at the beginning of December, long before the boards sat.  They do this to thin down the applications to only people who qualify for the trades (no point in doing all that extra work then have the person not pass the testing).  Meeting the criteria at ACS only allows for your file to go to the board for the competition.

All parts of your application are important, however, the CFAT score is weighted at 60% of the overall score.  Clearly this makes it the most important part of the application.  The COs recommendation is definitely important.  If an application is not recommended then it probably wont go far either.  However, an average recommendation is good enough to at least be considered.  When I originally applied a few years ago my application was stopped before it even reached my CO.  I was told that it would not be supported due to being "new" to the unit.  I went to the PSO and he said that I could push the issue as I do have a right to apply, however, with no support my chances would be very low.  I went back to my CoC and asked what it was they wanted from me do gain support.  We came up with a plan and a few years later I have my application in with strong support from my CO.  I mention this as a side tip to anyone looking into the program and unsure of support.  Talk to your CoC and find out what they want to see to give you the support.  Do it and they will have no choice but to support you.

As for the "other guy" you know, knowing nothing about the trade they want is a definite negative and will likely score low in job knowledge however if they meet the requirements for the UTPNCM program and have applied for pilot, Nav or AEC then the military still has to honor the application and test that person.


----------



## Pagan

Anyone else creeping these forums waiting for an offer?


----------



## regulator12

Yes still waiting! Hopefully we hear something soon. What are you applying for? I am applying for HCA and LOG. Best of luck!

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----------



## ridsteram

Where are you guys watching for the messages?


----------



## lohocard

Pagan said:
			
		

> Anyone else creeping these forums waiting for an offer?



Yup...lol. On the final background check soon to be competition listed anytime now....


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----------



## MasterInstructor

lohocard said:
			
		

> Yup...lol. On the final background check soon to be competition listed anytime now....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I don't get what you mean... Backround check for what?


----------



## MasterInstructor

Pagan said:
			
		

> Anyone else creeping these forums waiting for an offer?



Totally! Expecting messages after the 15th. I applied for LOG only. Second year applying, last year log was my 3rd choice and I did not pass ACS. This year, LOG as number one and only.


----------



## lohocard

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> I don't get what you mean... Backround check for what?



Background check as in calling all of my references, calling all of my employers, credit check etc. 


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----------



## sidemount

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> I don't get what you mean... Backround check for what?


Dont think its for UTPNCM
Pretty sure hes a new recruit.

To all the UTP applicants: Good luck...only about another month until offers start coming down haha.

Its well worth the wait, trust me!

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----------



## Hungover_cat

Seconded! Good luck to all! 

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----------



## Pagan

I am looking at AEC.  Good luck to all the other applicants this year.  Anyone else looking to go to UVic?


----------



## MasterInstructor

Pagan said:
			
		

> I am looking at AEC.  Good luck to all the other applicants this year.  Anyone else looking to go to UVic?



I am currently at UVic. No I am not accepted to UTPNCM but I I took academic & annual leave combined with shift work schedule and have been attending UVic since September. I am taking summer classes as well. 

Hopefully this year I will get UTPNCM so that I do not have to work on the weekends and evenings. I already have 14 courses done. I will be finishing my second year this summer.


----------



## Pagan

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> I am currently at UVic. No I am not accepted to UTPNCM but I I took academic & annual leave combined with shift work schedule and have been attending UVic since September. I am taking summer classes as well.
> 
> Hopefully this year I will get UTPNCM so that I do not have to work on the weekends and evenings. I already have 14 courses done. I will be finishing my second year this summer.



Nice!  I grew up in Victoria.  I've been doing my courses through the University of Manitoba.  Its my seconds choice for schools since they gave me something like 24 credits (12 uvic credits) for military service and experience.  However, that being said, UVic would be a far better place to go IMO.  I mean its Victoria....


----------



## 277to081

Pagan said:
			
		

> Nice!  I grew up in Victoria.  I've been doing my courses through the University of Manitoba.  Its my seconds choice for schools since they gave me something like 24 credits (12 uvic credits) for military service and experience.  However, that being said, UVic would be a far better place to go IMO.  I mean its Victoria....



Some schools take U of M as the standard for Military transfer credits (Acadia did for me). Apply everywhere you think you might want to attend school; even though the message makes it seem like you have to go to a school in your geolocation - once accepted, my impression is that the rules become more flexible on that.

Edit: for clarification, if you bring your statement of transfer credits from UofM to other universities - they will most likely grant you the same credits (or try their best to do so).


----------



## Pagan

UVic didnt give me any of those transfers but I would take living in Victoria again in a second.


----------



## kreuot

Any fellow SCP applicants for this year here? I put in for MARS. Hoping to hear something soon.


----------



## DAL12

kreuot said:
			
		

> Any fellow SCP applicants for this year here? I put in for MARS. Hoping to hear something soon.





I am awaiting news for SCP as well, I put in for HCA. Let me know if you hear anything?


----------



## kreuot

DAL12 said:
			
		

> I am awaiting news for SCP as well, I put in for HCA. Let me know if you hear anything?


For sure. Good luck! Did the BPSO give you any solid dates?


----------



## HfxWEngCMR

I dropped into the Halifax BPSO yesterday and they said that last year the first messages came out on April 25th. So around then, tentatively. Could be earlier, could be later.


----------



## kreuot

HfxWEngCMR said:
			
		

> I dropped into the Halifax BPSO yesterday and they said that last year the first messages came out on April 25th. So around then, tentatively. Could be earlier, could be later.


Is that for UTPNCM or SCP? What trade did you apply for?


----------



## Hungover_cat

UTP and SCP messages came out in the same week last year. First offers came out Apr 25th. People were still receiving offers up to 3 weeks after based on this thread. 

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----------



## HfxWEngCMR

It's for UTPNCM. But both messages came out around the same time last year. I applied for HCA, AERE and CSEO. 

According to the SIP HCA and CSEO are both pretty red so here's to hoping.


----------



## kreuot

Cool. Thanks for the info. Good luck to all fellow applicants!


----------



## DAL12

HfxWEngCMR said:
			
		

> It's for UTPNCM. But both messages came out around the same time last year. I applied for HCA, AERE and CSEO.
> 
> According to the SIP HCA and CSEO are both pretty red so here's to hoping.



Is the SIP on the high side?


----------



## HfxWEngCMR

HCA was around 30, AERE was 3 and CSEO was close to 60. But I think those numbers are across all recruitment methods. UTP, SCP, ROTP etc


----------



## HfxWEngCMR

Anybody hear anything yet?


----------



## kreuot

Nothing yet for me.


----------



## MasterInstructor

nothing yet.


----------



## Pagan

Still waiting myself.

If any of you are interested and have access to the DIN check out this link.  It is where you will find numbers for the intake plan.  Take it with a grain of salt unless you know what it is they mean.

http://cmp-cpm.mil.ca/en/support/military-personnel/dpgr-index.page


----------



## kreuot

Do they send acceptance by your DND e-mail or is it on EMAA?


----------



## sidemount

kreuot said:
			
		

> Do they send acceptance by your DND e-mail or is it on EMAA?


The message is sent via email to your unit.

Nothing will show on emaa until you accept an offer and are "promoted" to ocdt

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----------



## jitterbug

If you were successful I wouldn't anticipate anything until early-mid May.  If you were not successful than later than that like possibly even Jun-Jul.


----------



## Pagan

I swear I hear nail biting across Canada.....


----------



## kreuot

Pagan said:
			
		

> Still waiting myself.
> 
> If any of you are interested and have access to the DIN check out this link.  It is where you will find numbers for the intake plan.  Take it with a grain of salt unless you know what it is they mean.
> 
> http://cmp-cpm.mil.ca/en/support/military-personnel/dpgr-index.page


I took a look at this a few days ago and it says it's current for March 2017. If I'm interpreting it correctly it looks like almost all the UTPNCM and SCP positions have been filled. I guess they're going to start sending out acceptance notices now.


----------



## Pagan

Its hard to interpret these things without really knowing.  I figure that could read two ways, either it is as you say and those numbers under UTPNCM are what they are using this year or......that is what they took last year.


----------



## MasterInstructor

kreuot said:
			
		

> I took a look at this a few days ago and it says it's current for March 2017. If I'm interpreting it correctly it looks like almost all the UTPNCM and SCP positions have been filled. I guess they're going to start sending out acceptance notices now.



That is last year's numbers. The positions are not filled until you actually except your offer and messages are cut. We are looking to fill 2017–2018 fiscal year SIP


----------



## kreuot

I guess nobody has heard anything yet? I booked an appointment to see the BPSO to see if I can get more info. It looks like the decisions are supposed to come out in March/April according to the Canforgen. It seems odd that none of us have heard anything yet.


----------



## 277to081

kreuot said:
			
		

> I guess nobody has heard anything yet? I booked an appointment to see the BPSO to see if I can get more info. It looks like the decisions are supposed to come out in March/April according to the Canforgen. It seems odd that none of us have heard anything yet.



My offer message from 2015 was dated 12 May, if that helps at all for timeline.


----------



## SJBeaton

kreuot said:
			
		

> I guess nobody has heard anything yet? I booked an appointment to see the BPSO to see if I can get more info. It looks like the decisions are supposed to come out in March/April according to the Canforgen. It seems odd that none of us have heard anything yet.



Don't waste your time, or theirs. The selection boards for UTPNCM, SCP, etc. are only just happening. Give it until the second week of May before you start inquiring. The BPSO isn't even permitted to contact on your behalf until that time-ish (I don't have DWAN access at home so I cannot give you the exact timings of when DMCPG will entertain inquiries). I get how anxious you are to receive news (I too am waiting for an offer), but remind yourself (often) that this is the CAF and all things do not happen within "expected" timings. Good luck!


----------



## Pagan

I'll have to parrot SJ there.  The CANFORGEN stated that inqueries would not be entertained until May and only PSOs are authorized to call in and check.  You can check if you want but it will likely just waste time, be asured that you will get an answer eventually either way.  I take it as a good sign that nobody has heard anything.  What would make me anxious is seeing a bunch of posts about people getting offers and not recieve one myself. For what it is worth I am jittery myself knowing that an amazing opportunity is almost here.


----------



## kreuot

Thanks. I guess you guys are right and no news is good news for now.


----------



## DAL12

Pagan said:
			
		

> I'll have to parrot SJ there.  The CANFORGEN stated that inqueries would not be entertained until May and only PSOs are authorized to call in and check.  You can check if you want but it will likely just waste time, be asured that you will get an answer eventually either way.  I take it as a good sign that nobody has heard anything.  What would make me anxious is seeing a bunch of posts about people geting offers and not recieve one myself. For what it is worth I am jittery myself knowing that an amazing opportunity is almost here.






Agreed. No news is good news! I too am jittery.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Pagan said:
			
		

> I'll have to parrot SJ there.  The CANFORGEN stated that inqueries would not be entertained until May and only PSOs are authorized to call in and check.  You can check if you want but it will likely just waste time, be asured that you will get an answer eventually either way.  I take it as a good sign that nobody has heard anything.  What would make me anxious is seeing a bunch of posts about people geting offers and not recieve one myself. For what it is worth I am jittery myself knowing that an amazing opportunity is almost here.



Agreed. I am waiting for Log.


----------



## SJBeaton

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Agreed. I am waiting for Log.



UTPNCM or SCP?


----------



## MasterInstructor

SJBeaton said:
			
		

> UTPNCM or SCP?



UTPNCM. Second year applying.


----------



## MasterInstructor

This was a disappointing week.... [


----------



## kreuot

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> This was a disappointing week.... [


Hope we all hear good news next week.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Spoke with the local BPSO office, no offers yet. They are delayed this year and she said they will hopefully hear around mid-may.  :


----------



## Pagan

Thanks for sharing.  My PSO is away until mid-May so I have no way to ask about it till then.


----------



## hitchy_11

Still no word from anyone yet eh? :facepalm:


----------



## regulator12

Nope waiting patiently lol. 

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----------



## AirForce

Long time lurker here, but I thought I would post because I know how painful the wait is.

Boards are done, 
CM's have been contacted, 
offers are being sent out/being processed to be sent out.

I got picked this year (finally!!!)


----------



## regulator12

When did you find out about your selection?

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----------



## MasterInstructor

AirForce said:
			
		

> Long time lurker here, but I thought I would post because I know how painful the wait is.
> 
> Boards are done,
> CM's have been contacted,
> offers are being sent out/being processed to be sent out.
> 
> I got picked this year (finally!!!)



Congrats! What trade?


----------



## Pagan

Did you get an official offer of did you get this info in the back room?


----------



## kreuot

Congrats to the guy who got an offer.  I really hope his was a backroom early notice kind of things because I still haven't heard anything yet.


----------



## SJBeaton

kreuot said:
			
		

> Congrats to the guy who got an offer.  I really hope his was a backroom early notice kind of things because I still haven't heard anything yet.



The water cooler has been quite busy around our offices this week, but nothing received in black and white yet...


----------



## HfxWEngCMR

I was talking with a PSO yesterday and he said that he had "from good authority" that things were very delayed this year and to expect selection messages late May/early June, followed by non-selection messages once all those are sent/confirmed.


----------



## misratah500

Why does this have to be so delayed again this year. I owe UVIC 200 dollars by June and I'm not really keen to pay it just to get a rejection message from this program.


----------



## sidemount

Par for the course.

I didnt get my acceptance a few years ago until the first week of june.
Talk to the university. They may be able to accomidate you.

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----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Why does this have to be so delayed again this year. I owe UVIC 200 dollars by June and I'm not really keen to pay it just to get a rejection message from this program.



I am a UVIC student. You do not have to pay 200 by June 1st. Yes, I know that is what they say... here is the truth:


Registration will open up in late June for classes. Without paying the 200 you can not register for courses. As long as you pay before registration opens, you are good. Even if you wait till let's say august, you can still register but many classes will be full already...


----------



## Pagan

With luck the 3 of us can sit in the Student Union building having a beer enjoying the fact that we are being paid to be there in September.


----------



## misratah500

That would be nice but I chose hard mode for this as going only Sea LogO. My TSD and Interview were both excellent and I near maximized my points but my CFAT is only "average" for officer candidate. So i may need a rewrite for next year. If I put in MARS, my likelihood of going to UVIC this fall would be almost a sure thing I bet.


----------



## kreuot

Is MARS not as competitive? I only put in for MARS but through SCP. Only scored average as well.


----------



## DAL12

SCP people; have you received messages yet?


----------



## kreuot

Nothing yet. I think UTPNCM and SCP messages come out at the same time.


----------



## DAL12

Good, because a fellow SCP applicant (he is PO1) has heard he received his acceptance but just by word of mouth.


----------



## kreuot

Do you know if it was for MARS? Just trying to gauge my chances.


----------



## DAL12

No it was for LOG. I think you have a pretty good chance for MARS, they tend to take higher numbers (knowledge of previous years and the trend of retention for the profession).


----------



## kreuot

Thanks! Hope we both hear some good news this week.


----------



## DAL12

Oh seriously me too! Fingers and toes crossed for us.


----------



## SJBeaton

DAL12 said:
			
		

> SCP people; have you received messages yet?



SCP LogO ... nothing yet "officially"


----------



## kreuot

How are some people getting "unofficial" offers? BPSO or BOR giving them advance notice?


----------



## SJBeaton

kreuot said:
			
		

> How are some people getting "unofficial" offers? BPSO or BOR giving them advance notice?



Networking; a great skill to have as an officer!


----------



## kreuot

SJBeaton said:
			
		

> Networking; a great skill to have as an officer!


  Any tips on who to talk to if I want to find out more info?


----------



## SJBeaton

kreuot said:
			
		

> Any tips on who to talk to if I want to find out more info?



If you have a supportive CoC, perhaps they could inquire for you?


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> That would be nice but I chose hard mode for this as going only Sea LogO. My TSD and Interview were both excellent and I near maximized my points but my CFAT is only "average" for officer candidate. So i may need a rewrite for next year. If I put in MARS, my likelihood of going to UVIC this fall would be almost a sure thing I bet.



I am going sea Log as well.. I have been going to school since September with a deal I made with CoC... I am just finishing up my second year now. Hopefully, UTPNCM will give me another 4 years!


----------



## Navy4Life

Hello everyone,

I am a long time lurker, but I thought now is a good time to join the conversation. I noticed there are a few of you hpoing to go to UVIC, and I am also hoping to go there. I just paid my $200 registration deposit; I should have checked here first! I suppose it is just one more reason to feel good about receiving an offer.
One of my colleages just received his offical VOT message today, so I think we may see some offical UTP mesages arriving shortly. 
It has been a long hard wait, and hopefully we all hear good news soon!


----------



## MasterInstructor

Any Uvic questions, you guys can let me know!


----------



## hitchy_11

Waiting and not knowing is so stressful. To wait a whole year to hear an answer is rough. 

Does anyone know on average how many people apply for UTPNCM per year? 

I applied HCA and LOG (2,8 positions) so I imagine its very tough competition.


----------



## kreuot

I'm not sure about UTPNCM but I was told a little over 200 people applied for SCP last year and I would imagine it would be something similar. Yeah, I think things like HCA, LOG, INT O, etc. are pretty competitive since a lot of people seem to want those trades. However, LOG seems to hire in pretty large numbers.

I also spoke with the BPSO yesterday and was told that no offers have been sent out. He said to not be surprised if we hear back in June or even July. At least for right now no news is good news. Good luck everyone!


----------



## hitchy_11

Hire in large numbers.. as in more than 8? lol... it would be a pleasant surprise if they decided to increase their SIP numbers and take a bunch.


----------



## Pagan

Well my boss called me a couple minutes ago to inform me that he has my offer for UTPNCM.  I was offered ACSO and I willbe going to UVic for the next few years.  He emailed me the message so it is pretty legit.  You guys should be expecting them in the morning or soonest.  Good luck to the rest of you and I hope to see a few of you at UVic in September!!@!!


----------



## regulator12

Congratulations! Now I am nervous lol hearing that folks are getting messages! 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## kreuot

Congratulations!


----------



## HfxWEngCMR

Congrats! I know there's been an offer for MSEO as well. A friend of mine got the call yesterday afternoon. 

It's the only official message I've seen sent out thus far on the east coast.


----------



## misratah500

So these offers just started yesterday? Anyone hear anything about LOGO?


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> So these offers just started yesterday? Anyone hear anything about LOGO?



I am waiting for LOG as well... Nothing yet. I am at CFB Esquimalt.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Here is the email exchange between CFB Esquimalt BPSO Admin: 



> Good morning,
> 
> I am hearing that some UTPNCM offers came in yesterday. Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything yet. Do they normally come in all at once or trade by trade? Just trying to see if I should spend the weekend crying  haha"





> Hi,
> 
> We were just notified yesterday that UTPNCM offer messages should be coming out soon but have not seen any yet.  Don't spend your weekend crying!


----------



## kreuot

Waiting for SCP MARS. I don't think we will be hearing much news until next week because of the long weekend. At least here at CFB Edmonton, almost everyone has today off as well.  :'( Going to have such terrible anxiety over the weekend waiting.

I think both UTPNCM and SCP messages should come out at the same time but if anyone else here is an SCP applicant could you please let me know if you receive anything.


----------



## misratah500

If I don't get UTPNCM Naval LOGO this year, I'm going to rewrite my CFAT and reapply for that along with UPTNCM MARS and SCP NCS Eng next year.

I'm going to spread out my chances next year.


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> If I don't get UTPNCM Naval LOGO this year, I'm going to rewrite my CFAT and reapply for that along with UPTNCM MARS and SCP NCS Eng next year.
> 
> I'm going to spread out my chances next year.



Except the SCP NCS, same here... This is my second year waiting for Naval Log UTPNCM. I am already starting my 3rd year in September at UVIC... Might even turn into a SCP in the 4th year haha.


----------



## kreuot

Applying for SCP should be easier but I don't think they recruit large numbers. Since you guys are on Navy bases, either of you know many people who applied for SCP MARS this year? Being on an army base most people I know who applied for the program did so for LOG, INT, and PAFO.


----------



## MasterInstructor

kreuot said:
			
		

> Applying for SCP should be easier but I don't think they recruit large numbers. Since you guys are on Navy bases, either of you know many people who applied for SCP MARS this year? Being on an army base most people I know who applied for the program did so for LOG, INT, and PAFO.



No idea, but to be honest, you should not have any problems getting MARS... Not many people apply for MARS out here...


----------



## kreuot

Hope that's true. I was told they were only taking 2 for SCP this year. It seems like most combat arms trades have very few applicants from UTPNCM and SCP. Most of us have lived the life and realize it's not as glorious as the recruiting videos make it out to be. I don't understand why in-service commissioning applicants aren't given priority over DEO's. We have put the time in and probably have a better chance at succeeding than some civilian off the street.


----------



## MasterInstructor

kreuot said:
			
		

> Hope that's true. I was told they were only taking 2 for SCP this year. It seems like most combat arms trades have very few applicants from UTPNCM and SCP. Most of us have lived the life and realize it's not as glorious as the recruiting videos make it out to be. I don't understand why in-service commissioning applicants aren't given priority over DEO's. We have put the time in and probably have a better chance at succeeding than some civilian off the street.



It has to do with "opportunity cost". You are already trained in your trade and have a certain expertise. The military is then throwing all that training away, has to train someone for your position AND train you for your new trade AND spend the money to send you to university...


----------



## Pagan

I was hoping to hear others getting good news today but if it helps the other guy in my office was "told" that his message came in for an offer but he has yet to see proof.  I seem to be the lucky one here.  I do sincerly wish you all luck!


----------



## SJBeaton

Pagan said:
			
		

> Well my boss called me a couple minutes ago to inform me that he has my offer for UTPNCM.  I was offered ACSO and I will be going to UVic for the next few years.  He emailed me the message so it is pretty legit.  You guys should be expecting them in the morning or soonest.  Good luck to the rest of you and I hope to see a few of you at UVic in September!!@!!



Congrats, Pagan! Enjoy life as a student for the next few years in beautiful Victoria.


----------



## misratah500

So Pagan and another dude are in CFB Esquimalt but the BPSO office says they haven't seen any offers yet? Hmm.


----------



## Pagan

misratah500 said:
			
		

> So Pagan and another dude are in CFB Esquimalt but the BPSO office says they haven't seen any offers yet? Hmm.



I am up in Comox

Thanks SJB


----------



## misratah500

Okay, that actually brings me comfort.


----------



## MaritimeMogul

Good Morning all,

Long time lurker here, didn't even realize I had previously signed up for an account until I went to sign up for one and it said that the username was already in use. Go figure !

I too have been verbally told that I was accepted UTPNCM for Log-Sea. I haven't seen a message yet, so although it has brought some of the stress of waiting down it really hasn't solidified anything yet. Hopefully this week something firm comes out!


----------



## fairwinds

Good Morning all,

Long time follower of the forum. Finally decided to break down and create an account.

Congrats to those who have already received offers, whether they be official, word-of-mouth, carrier pigeon, etc. I am still waiting (patiently :nod: ) and trying not to harass the BPSO too much.

I am curious if there are any other Nursing Officer applicants on here, and to which school they've applied?


----------



## misratah500

I have to be honest and say I'm not happy with all these verbal offers... How does that even happen. I'd hope to see it in a message. If everyone is getting verbal offers and I'm hearing nothing that probably means I'm not getting it this year.


----------



## MasterInstructor

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> Good Morning all,
> 
> Long time lurker here, didn't even realize I had previously signed up for an account until I went to sign up for one and it said that the username was already in use. Go figure !
> 
> I too have been verbally told that I was accepted UTPNCM for Log-Sea. I haven't seen a message yet, so although it has brought some of the stress of waiting down it really hasn't solidified anything yet. Hopefully this week something firm comes out!



Are you in Halifax or Equimalt?


----------



## kreuot

Congrats to those getting unofficial offers! I wouldn't worry too much man. I haven't heard anything yet either and the BPSO said to not worry as offers roll out continuously. Depending on your unit and COC you might hear about an unofficial offer but I wouldn't worry too much if you don't.


----------



## bastien396

misratah500 said:
			
		

> I have to be honest and say I'm not happy with all these verbal offers... How does that even happen. I'd hope to see it in a message. If everyone is getting verbal offers and I'm hearing nothing that probably means I'm not getting it this year.



It could be just your CoC being more secretive. 

I found out about my application during a meeting with the OC. The OC was instructing me to complete a tasking "quickly " so the next replacement will know what to do; which probed me to ask the ultimate question about my application. My boss strongly expressed the desire to keep this quiet until it is official. 

I know the waiting is killing. But honestly, we just have to wait for the official messages. 

As far as the BPSO in Borden is concerned Ottawa is working on the messages, no one has received an official offer yet (in Borden).




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaritimeMogul

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Are you in Halifax or Equimalt?




I'm in Halifax.


----------



## regulator12

Good day all,

congrats to those finding out unofficially! Just curious though how COCs are finding out unofficially? You would think they would find out once the actual message comes in.


----------



## misratah500

Has anyone actually seen a message yet.


----------



## bastien396

regulator12 said:
			
		

> Good day all,
> 
> congrats to those finding out unofficially! Just curious though how COCs are finding out unofficially? You would think they would find out once the actual message comes in.



CM normally have a direct line of communication to help with posting planning, and CM talks with CoC and so on... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaritimeMogul

bastien396 said:
			
		

> CM normally have a direct line of communication to help with posting planning, and CM talks with CoC and so on...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I can echo this statement. I "found" out while clearing into my new unit and the CM/MOC Adv spoke with my new Chief about finding a replacement.


----------



## misratah500

Almost quitting time in Ottawa, I guess that means no official messages out today and just RUMINT.


----------



## wolot

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a set date when all the first round messages came out.  :nod:


----------



## MaritimeMogul

Wishful thinking after such a long wait - today seems like a great day to release messages ! hahaha


----------



## jofafa

The process seems pretty slow. Thing is, we then have to book leave (for about 20 annuals), HHT, move. That gives you about a month and a half. Don't forget that you have to choose your courses as well, time is getting short!


----------



## kreuot

Has anyone tried talking to their CM instead of the BPSO?


----------



## MasterInstructor

kreuot said:
			
		

> Has anyone tried talking to their CM instead of the BPSO?



I emailed my MOC advisor on the coast however he is on annual leave...


----------



## MasterInstructor

Any news about offers? 

I just popped into CFB Esquimalt BPSO. Main admin person who I normally talk to is away until 29th. Other admin assistant did not know of any UTPNCM offers, said she has seen VTO messages come in; however, she did not have access to check...


----------



## kreuot

Nothing yet here in CFB Edmonton.


----------



## MaritimeMogul

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Any news about offers?
> 
> I just popped into CFB Esquimalt BPSO. Main admin person who I normally talk to is away until 29th. Other admin assistant did not know of any UTPNCM offers, said she has seen VTO messages come in; however, she did not have access to check...



Interestingly enough I popped into my BPSO and saw the person there. I explained my case, and I was told that they would call Ottawa on my behalf (I cited that I had heard through the grapevine already) She called me at my workplace and confirmed with me that I was indeed selected and that I could see a message tomorrow or early next week.


----------



## MasterInstructor

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> Interestingly enough I popped into my BPSO and saw the person there. I explained my case, and I was told that they would call Ottawa on my behalf (I cited that I had heard through the grapevine already) She called me at my workplace and confirmed with me that I was indeed selected and that I could see a message tomorrow or early next week.



Awesome! Sucks for me cause I am trying for sea log as well  

I also got an email sent to CM and waiting to hear back.


----------



## misratah500

Jeez at this rate, the rejection messages and second round of offers will be in July.


----------



## regulator12

I wonder how many people typically reject their offer and how many second round offers go out? I mean waiting all this time with the competitive nature of the selection process one would think most would take the first offer. Unless I guess if you had to change uniforms.....


----------



## SJBeaton

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> Interestingly enough I popped into my BPSO and saw the person there. I explained my case, and I was told that they would call Ottawa on my behalf (I cited that I had heard through the grapevine already) She called me at my workplace and confirmed with me that I was indeed selected and that I could see a message tomorrow or early next week.



Congrats on the "additional confirmation", MM! I would like to think that SCP messages will be rolling out shortly thereafter ...


----------



## MasterInstructor

regulator12 said:
			
		

> I wonder how many people typically reject their offer and how many second round offers go out? I mean waiting all this time with the competitive nature of the selection process one would think most would take the first offer. Unless I guess if you had to change uniforms.....



A lot of things happen in a year in people's lives... Marriage, divorce, pregnancy, sickness, death, change of career.....There may be reasons why people do not want to accept the offers and commit additional years to the military and move etc..


----------



## regulator12

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> A lot of things happen in a year in people's lives... Marriage, divorce, pregnancy, sickness, death, change of career.....There may be reasons why people do not want to accept the offers and commit additional years to the military and move etc..



True enough I guess a lot can happen that would change ones mind.


----------



## wolot

Another week bites the dust... I hope we find out soon, I get asked by my CoC from last year every darn day for updates.


----------



## bastien396

Let's hope that tomorrow is the day that we will get our "official" offers! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaritimeMogul

bastien396 said:
			
		

> Let's hope that tomorrow is the day that we will get our "official" offers!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Agreed, starting off a Monday with an offer would be awesome.


----------



## regulator12

Anyone getting any information from their COC regarding their application? It's all crickets over here lol.


----------



## DAL12

Nothing from CoC. It has me half crazy.


----------



## misratah500

Bah, just got an email from UVIC today reminding me to pay my 200 by June 1st and that I'll be register courses soon...


----------



## hitchy_11

man oh man this is such a hard wait. I keep hearing different things from different people about strong applicants and everything. 

Really hope I get one of my choices and it sucks not knowing where you stood amongst the competition!

Hope everyone is happy with their results either way!


----------



## MaritimeMogul

hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> man oh man this is such a hard wait. I keep hearing different things from different people about strong applicants and everything.
> 
> Really hope I get one of my choices and it sucks not knowing where you stood amongst the competition!
> 
> Hope everyone is happy with their results either way!



What did you apply for? Myself I applied for Log-Sea and that was it. I was made aware by my CoC and then the PSO that I was selected. Still awaiting a message like everyone else.

Wish everyone the best of luck !


----------



## mariomike

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> What did you apply for?





			
				hitchy_11 said:
			
		

> I applied HCA and LOG


----------



## MaritimeMogul

Successful pub search by the Directing Staff. haha


----------



## jitterbug

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Bah, just got an email from UVIC today reminding me to pay my 200 by June 1st and that I'll be register courses soon...



Do up an ILP for a uni course and add $200 worth of admin fees on it.


----------



## MasterInstructor

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Do up an ILP for a uni course and add $200 worth of admin fees on it.


 That will accomplish nothing unless member completes the course. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Bah, just got an email from UVIC today reminding me to pay my 200 by June 1st and that I'll be register courses soon...



Registration does not open till June 19th this year. As long as you pay before that, you will be ok. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MaritimeMogul

So we're now 31 May... Hopefully we find out today, kind of had enough of waiting. Its pushing the "good things happen to those who wait" saying a little far...


----------



## bastien396

Got my official message this afternoon. It is coming. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HfxWEngCMR

Congrats! What did you get?


----------



## bastien396

HfxWEngCMR said:
			
		

> Congrats! What did you get?


MPO 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kreuot

bastien396 said:
			
		

> Got my official message this afternoon. It is coming.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Congratulations! It must be a huge relief.


----------



## MaritimeMogul

Congrats! That's huge, maybe you're the tip of the iceberg and they started sending them out late yesterday. Where will you be attending school?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bastien396

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> Congrats! That's huge, maybe you're the tip of the iceberg and they started sending them out late yesterday. Where will you be attending school?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. I'm going to YorkU. I hope everyone get their offer soon! Good luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaritimeMogul

bastien396 said:
			
		

> Thanks. I'm going to YorkU. I hope everyone get their offer soon! Good luck.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



So I don't know my Ontario too well. Is going to YorkU considered a cost move for you, or are you local to there? I'm anticipating a message anytime now I'm sure, but I "should" be a local university so it could take longer than the cost move guys/gals.


----------



## bastien396

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> So I don't know my Ontario too well. Is going to YorkU considered a cost move for you, or are you local to there? I'm anticipating a message anytime now I'm sure, but I "should" be a local university so it could take longer than the cost move guys/gals.


It is a no cost move. I will be driving back and forth everyday. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wolot

Got my message today. LogO air, at Rmcc.


----------



## MaritimeMogul

wolot said:
			
		

> Got my message today. LogO air, at Rmcc.



Congrats ! That's awesome. Did you originally apply for RMCC or are you a cost move there?


----------



## bastien396

wolot said:
			
		

> Got my message today. LogO air, at Rmcc.


Congrats! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wolot

Cost move to Kingston. Look forward to the opportunity.


----------



## regulator12

Congratulations!  I believe there where 8 LOG UTPNCM positions just wonder how many are allocated to each element. Or if they increased the SIP.


----------



## mike2011

I see that people who applied for UTPNCM are receiving their official message, Congrats. But Anyone has received their official message for SCP?


----------



## SJBeaton

mike2011 said:
			
		

> I see that people who applied for UTPNCM are receiving their official message, Congrats. But Anyone has received their official message for SCP?



Nothing yet. I see that you're newly registered on the forum; what have you applied for, Mike?


----------



## mike2011

I applied for PAO and INTO. What about you?


----------



## SJBeaton

mike2011 said:
			
		

> I applied for PAO and INTO. What about you?



Navy LogO. Good luck!


----------



## mike2011

Any other PAO applicants? if yes what was your score on WCPT-351?


----------



## SJBeaton

mike2011 said:
			
		

> Any other PAO applicants? if yes what was your score on WCPT-351?



It's likely considered an a-hole move bringing attention to your punctuation error in a question soliciting feedback about Written Communication Proficiency Test scores, right?


----------



## DAL12

mike2011 said:
			
		

> I see that people who applied for UTPNCM are receiving their official message, Congrats. But Anyone has received their official message for SCP?




No message for SCP yet, from this end.


----------



## RatCatcher

Second year applying for PAO. The word from my career shop is that I haven't been "cut" but it's not a yes or no yet. Basically I was told to stand by. 93 on the WCPT.


----------



## mike2011

SJBeaton said:
			
		

> It's likely considered an a-hole move bringing attention to your punctuation error in a question soliciting feedback about Written Communication Proficiency Test scores, right?




well maybe it is because i am a franco. have you thought about this one Einstein


----------



## SJBeaton

mike2011 said:
			
		

> well maybe it is because i am a franco. have you thought about this one Einstein



An opportunist couldn't have let that easy one get away ...

P.S. Regardless of Anglo/Franco, the wink was intentionally meant to ensure you knew I was ribbing you! Cheers.


----------



## kreuot

No message for me either (SCP).


----------



## MaritimeMogul

I'm sure that these annual messages are in their infancy. Hopefully it'll be like this years VOT's; first couple days a few trickled out each day and then BAM... everything in one day. Keep your head high !


----------



## jitterbug

Just got my message: HCA-Land U of Winnipeg - Business Administration.  Hope everyone else gets their's soon.  The wait is the worst part.


----------



## DAL12

Congratulations to everyone, that's great!


----------



## wolot

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Just got my message: HCA-Land U of Winnipeg - Business Administration.  Hope everyone else gets their's soon.  The wait is the worst part.



Congratulations buddy! What was your previous trade?


----------



## Critik

Just got my message for AERE. Good luck all.


----------



## jitterbug

wolot said:
			
		

> Congratulations buddy! What was your previous trade?



MP


----------



## mike2011

RatCatcher said:
			
		

> Second year applying for PAO. The word from my career shop is that I haven't been "cut" but it's not a yes or no yet. Basically I was told to stand by. 93 on the WCPT.



Is it for SCP or UTP that you are applying? 

You got 93 on the WCPT? That's very good but wasn't the exam on 50? Unless they gave half points.

Anyway good luck man.


----------



## RatCatcher

UTP and I think I got 92%, sorry for the confusion but I did write the exam over a year ago. I am not holding my breath and carrying on with my handover to my new position in my unit.


----------



## mike2011

DAL12 said:
			
		

> No message for SCP yet, from this end.



What trade are you applying for?


----------



## mariomike

mike2011 said:
			
		

> What trade are you applying for?





			
				DAL12 said:
			
		

> I put in for HCA.


----------



## MaritimeMogul

Officially received my UTPNCM offer for Log-Sea this morning. Great way to start the week!


----------



## bastien396

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> Officially received my UTPNCM offer for Log-Sea this morning. Great way to start the week!


Congrats! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mike2011

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> Officially received my UTPNCM offer for Log-Sea this morning. Great way to start the week!



Great


----------



## SJBeaton

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> Officially received my UTPNCM offer for Log-Sea this morning. Great way to start the week!



Congrats, buddy! Well-deserved


----------



## regulator12

Congrats to those getting offers! Seems like its slowly beginning or everybody already knows and this board is just exceptionally quite!


----------



## SJBeaton

regulator12 said:
			
		

> Congrats to those getting offers! Seems like its slowly beginning or everybody already knows and this board is just exceptionally quite!



I strongly suspect it's the former.

Question: For folks that have received an SCP offer in previous years, has anyone been granted simultaneous promotion to SLt after BMOQ Mod 2 based on education/experience, not on previous NCM rank?


----------



## hitchy_11

Really hope they're only beginning to be disseminated. 

One of two spots was already taken for HCA here in Winnipeg!


----------



## Navy4Life

I received my message this morning for MARS. The wait is finally over, and it is an incredible relief. I am off to UVic this fall for Earth and Ocean Science. Good luck to all of you still waiting!


----------



## kreuot

Congrats! I'm hoping for MARS as well but through SCP.

Any other SCP applicants hear anything?


----------



## DAL12

kreuot said:
			
		

> Congrats! I'm hoping for MARS as well but through SCP.
> 
> Any other SCP applicants hear anything?



Have not heard a thing for SCP, waiting not so patiently.


----------



## Doozer1987

Long time lurker here,


Another week almost in the books, no word.   :boring:


Was told by BPSO assistant in Halifax that only one offer had gone through and they're still waiting on the rest...


The wait is excruciating!


----------



## regulator12

Doozer1987 said:
			
		

> Long time lurker here,
> 
> 
> Another week almost in the books, no word.   :boring:
> 
> 
> Was told by BPSO assistant in Halifax that only one offer had gone through and they're still waiting on the rest...
> 
> 
> The wait is excruciating!



This wait is excruciating! My BPSO stated earlier this week that he has not received all first round offers yet. He said they where trickling in. I know some people have been unofficially told they are not getting an offer so at this point I am holding on as there is still hope!


----------



## mike2011

Any SCP offers yet?


----------



## kreuot

Nothing yet for me (SCP). It looks like they normally come out at the same time as UTPNCM offers but it might be different this year. We don't need to be told as quickly though since we should all have our degrees.


----------



## mike2011

kreuot said:
			
		

> Nothing yet for me (SCP). It looks like they normally come out at the same time as UTPNCM offers but it might be different this year. We don't need to be told as quickly though since we should all have our degrees.



I have been told that last year people were receiving refusals at this precised time of the year... I'm loosing faith here...


----------



## kreuot

Keep the faith man. The first offers for UTPNCM came out late this year. Should be the same for SCP.


----------



## misratah500

Called my BPSO (Esquimalt) two days ago and they said they've only received one UTPNCM offer so far. So either CFB Esquimalt sucked at competition this year, or the there are still several offers to come. We also have a guy in my office that got SCP Log Sea but no official message yet. Just confirmed rumors.


----------



## DAL12

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Called my BPSO (Esquimalt) two days ago and they said they've only received one UTPNCM offer so far. So either CFB Esquimalt sucked at competition this year, or the there are still several offers to come. We also have a guy in my office that got SCP Log Sea but no official message yet. Just confirmed rumors.




I did the exact same thing, called Wednesday, except in Halifax. All the same answers.


----------



## misratah500

I applied for INTO/LOGO twice in 2009/2010 and i got my rejection messages each year well before now.


----------



## mike2011

misratah500 said:
			
		

> I applied for INTO/LOGO twice in 2009/2010 and i got my rejection messages each year well before now.



This is encouraging news. Have you been accepted later on for SCP?


----------



## kreuot

I'm getting the same results here at CFB Edmonton. It seems like they are being really slow at sending the messages out, especially for SCP applicants, as I have not heard of a single person receiving an official offer. I don't understand why they are delaying it by such a large amount of time unless they are changing the SIP numbers around and are either removing or adding more numbers for us. It doesn't affect me as an SCP applicant but for the people who are applying through UTPNCM , some schools have already done course selections and some people may not be able to get into the classes they need.


----------



## hitchy_11

kreuot said:
			
		

> It doesn't affect me as an SCP applicant but for the people who are applying through UTPNCM , some schools have already done course selections and some people may not be able to get into the classes they need.



What he said...


----------



## regulator12

Its been really quiet this week so far, anyone have any news about their UTPNCM acceptance or non selection? The longer this goes on with no news feels like a non selection message is headed my way!


----------



## hitchy_11

I haven't heard anything as of yet. Asked my boss about it he said the same thing, longer the wait the seems less likely you are to get selected...


----------



## 123abc

still waiting to hear back under SCP as well. I applied for log-sea


----------



## kreuot

For fellow SCP applicants. I spoke to my CM and he told me that they were backlogged with sending out offers to us as I believe they are still working on UTPNCM offers. I was told to wait around 2 weeks before official offers start coming down. Don't give up hope people.


----------



## regulator12

kreuot said:
			
		

> For fellow SCP applicants. I spoke to my CM and he told me that they were backlogged with sending out offers to us as I believe they are still working on UTPNCM offers. I was told to wait around 2 weeks before official offers start coming down. Don't give up hope people.



I know of a person who has been unofficially told they are getting a UTPNCM offer however they have yet to receive it so it does seem they are way behind this year!


----------



## DAL12

kreuot said:
			
		

> For fellow SCP applicants. I spoke to my CM and he told me that they were backlogged with sending out offers to us as I believe they are still working on UTPNCM offers. I was told to wait around 2 weeks before official offers start coming down. Don't give up hope people.




Thank you Kreuot. Do you unofficially know you are selected?


----------



## High-PoweredXU

So I been reading through this thread. Good to know I'm not the only one waiting. Last year my buddy got his SCP in April. This year it seems much delayed. Even my Chain of Command hasn't the slightest clue what's going on. Two of us are waiting for our SCP acceptance/rejection message and my other buddy did better on the Aircrew test than I. If anything he shoulda gotten his message early, but nothing has come through yet. 

Sent from my ASUS_Z00ED using Tapatalk


----------



## wolot

Has anyone got their posting message yet? If so, how long was it after your acceptance


----------



## Thermal

wolot said:
			
		

> Has anyone got their posting message yet? If so, how long was it after your acceptance



For me, it was a little less than a month after I sent in my acceptance.


----------



## kreuot

DAL12 said:
			
		

> Thank you Kreuot. Do you unofficially know you are selected?


Nope, it seems like the same background gossip that other people have heard. Hoping for the official message soon. But I don't think UTPNCM offers are done yet and SCP candidates should be last priority because we don't need to get posted out before school starts.

Does anyone know how much time you have to respond to an offer? I'm worried about one coming in while on tasking or leave.


----------



## wolot

My message had a 21 day response timeline. It took my unit 14 days to reply. I'm hoping to sell my house soon though...


----------



## mike2011

wolot said:
			
		

> My message had a 21 day response timeline. It took my unit 14 days to reply. I'm hoping to sell my house soon though...



So you've received your acceptance message a while ago then. How long exactly? For UTP or SCP?


----------



## wolot

UTPNCM. Dated end of last month. I would be surprised if the UT are not all out by now. 

It took me three years to get accepted. 
Best luck.


----------



## regulator12

wolot said:
			
		

> UTPNCM. Dated end of last month. I would be surprised if the UT are not all out by now.
> 
> It took me three years to get accepted.
> Best luck.



Congratulations! I am fairly certain that not all of the UTPNCM offers are out yet. Seems like things are severely delayed this year.


----------



## jitterbug

I talked to a guy today who got selected SCP Log O but found out back channel through his CM.  Still no official message.  My advice is contact CM.


----------



## SJBeaton

jitterbug said:
			
		

> I talked to a guy today who got selected SCP Log O but found out back channel through his CM.  Still no official message.  My advice is contact CM.



The latest update I received this week was that SCP messages are in draft-form and official offers should be released within the next couple of weeks.


----------



## bastien396

Thermal said:
			
		

> For me, it was a little less than a month after I sent in my acceptance.



I received my posting message two days ago. It took 3 weeks.  


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----------



## Doozer1987

Finally received my offer at the end of the day yesterday! 

PAO, going to MSVU in September for Communication! 

Hope everyone else gets their offer soon!


----------



## mike2011

Doozer1987 said:
			
		

> Finally received my offer at the end of the day yesterday!
> 
> PAO, going to MSVU in September for Communication!
> 
> Hope everyone else gets their offer soon!




Good job! Hopefully I'm gonna get my PAO offer through SCP soon enough.


----------



## moraleissue

Received my offer for LOG Army today through UTPNCM. Message was dated 13 June.


----------



## wolot

Where are you going?


----------



## regulator12

So it's been very quiet lately. Anyone get any news on either an acceptance or rejection message?


----------



## High-PoweredXU

Nothing yet. 

Sent from my ASUS_Z00ED using Tapatalk


----------



## 123abc

I went in to the Halifax BPSO on Wednesday and they told me that they still haven’t seen any messages under SCP yet


----------



## SJBeaton

regulator12 said:
			
		

> So it's been very quiet lately. Anyone get any news on either an acceptance or rejection message?



Nothing yet. Another update yesterday was that the messages were up for signature, so the 1-2 week predicted timeline given earlier this week still seems likely.

Congrats to those that have received their UTPNCM messages (MSVU is a great school; you will enjoy it there, Doozer)!


----------



## kreuot

Update for fellow SCP applicants. I received my offer for SCP MARS today. Offers should be rolling out this week if you haven't received one yet. Good luck and congratulations!


----------



## High-PoweredXU

kreuot said:
			
		

> Update for fellow SCP applicants. I received my offer for SCP MARS today. Offers should be rolling out this week if you haven't received one yet. Good luck and congratulations!


Congratulations! Way to start the week Hopefully find out my fate soon times.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00ED using Tapatalk


----------



## DAL12

kreuot said:
			
		

> Update for fellow SCP applicants. I received my offer for SCP MARS today. Offers should be rolling out this week if you haven't received one yet. Good luck and congratulations!



Congratulations Kreuot! Hopefully the rest of us hear soon too!


----------



## kreuot

Thanks! Not sure if you guys have tried yet but, I had a bit of luck getting more info from my CM.


----------



## mike2011

kreuot said:
			
		

> Thanks! Not sure if you guys have tried yet but, I had a bit of luck getting more info from my CM.


How did you get your answer? Email or CoC? And one last question. Did you call or email your CM because I send her a email and she never bothered answering me. Tks


----------



## kreuot

Got it from CoC, CM, and BPSO. I would suggest talking to your CM as they may be able to "hint" at your status. Has anyone been given a BMOQ date for those that need to do it? Also, does anyone know how much notice is given before you get loaded on a course?


----------



## SJBeaton

kreuot said:
			
		

> Got it from CoC, CM, and BPSO. I would suggest talking to your CM as they may be able to "hint" at your status. Has anyone been given a BMOQ date for those that need to do it? Also, does anyone know how much notice is given before you get loaded on a course?



Received my SCP selection offer for Sea LogO this afternoon! Appointment date to NCdt in mid-August.

Kreuot - no mention of a BMOQ date (I'll have to complete Mod 2) as that will be up to the folks at BTL to squeeze us in. I see on the CFLRS schedule that there is a Mod 2 scheduled for October; but, we may also get tacked on a full course for the second-half. 

Best of luck to those still waiting.


----------



## kreuot

SJBeaton said:
			
		

> Received my SCP selection offer for Sea LogO this afternoon! Appointment date to NCdt in mid-August.
> 
> Kreuot - no mention of a BMOQ date (I'll have to complete Mod 2) as that will be up to the folks at BTL to squeeze us in. I see on the CFLRS schedule that there is a Mod 2 scheduled for October; but, we may also get tacked on a full course for the second-half.
> 
> Best of luck to those still waiting.


Congratulations! I'm in the same situation as you. Appointment set for mid July and I have to complete Mod 2. Given how long we had to wait for our results I guess a few more months isn't that bad.


----------



## AirForce

Has anyone that accepted an offer for UTPNCM received their posting message yet?

I'm on IR and looking to push my RFD 30 days earlier, but I still haven't got the posting message yet...


----------



## Pagan

AirForce said:
			
		

> Has anyone that accepted an offer for UTPNCM received their posting message yet?
> 
> I'm on IR and looking to push my RFD 30 days earlier, but I still haven't got the posting message yet...



Typical for the military. I had my MWO look into my posting message 2 weeks ago as at that time I only had 2 months till I was to transfer over to OCdt.  It turns out that they had never received my acceptance message.  Things did get sorted out finally including proof of enrollment and courses so they were able produce a posting message and I got it on Monday the 26th.  

My recommendation is that you engage your CoC to look into it by emailing the contact on the message.


----------



## Terrier

Does anyone here have the ability to get confirmation or denial of more utp offers still coming out? 

I attempted to engage my BPSO,  but they weren't willing to make the call to Ottawa...


----------



## regulator12

I know from my bpso most if not all offers are out. He said that Ottawa has not received all the acceptances yet. So second round offers won't go out until all first round folks respond and all non selection messages won't go out until after that.


----------



## regulator12

I know some of us are still waiting to hear, just wondering if anyone has heard any more news with regards to UTPNCM?


----------



## wolot

No posting message yet... Hard to wait so long.


----------



## mike2011

wolot said:
			
		

> No posting message yet... Hard to wait so long.


I received my selection offer for PAO yesterday but the message was dated 23 JUN 17. So i'm encouraging you to go see to your OR asap for any message because I have been told by PSO that SCP offers are all out. Good luck


----------



## DAL12

mike2011 said:
			
		

> I received my selection offer for PAO yesterday but the message was dated 23 JUN 17. So i'm encouraging you to go see to your OR asap for any message because I have been told by PSO that SCP offers are all out. Good luck




Congratulations! Where are you located? And my PSO didn't know if all SCP messages were out or not.


----------



## mike2011

DAL12 said:
			
		

> Congratulations! Where are you located? And my PSO didn't know if all SCP messages were out or not.



Bagotville


----------



## wolot

I'm wondering if anyone here that went UTPNCM to RMC received an paid posting to Kingston?


----------



## kreuot

Has anyone who accepted their offer for SCP received a posting message or response yet?


----------



## High-PoweredXU

Nope. Apparently our BPSO is on leave. I'm was told July14 is when I'll find out.

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----------



## High-PoweredXU

My buddy just got ACSO under SCP. I haven't heard yet for AEC under SCP. Anyone waiting for AEC? I was told before this month ends I'll find out whether I've been offered or rejected.


----------



## khan.mu2

i got my offer for AEC  23rd of June and posting message on the 19th July under UTPNCM.


----------



## wolot

Are you getting posted?


----------



## khan.mu2

wolot said:
			
		

> Are you getting posted?



posted to ULO/BTL unit.


----------



## 123abc

finally received my selection offer for Log-Sea under SCP. Message was dated June 28th however I didn't receive it until August 2nd. what a long wait that was


----------



## kreuot

123abc said:
			
		

> finally received my selection offer for Log-Sea under SCP. Message was dated June 28th however I didn't receive it until August 2nd. what a long wait that was


Congrats! That must have been a frustrating wait lol. I go mine near the end of June and I thought that was a long wait.

Sidenote: Has anyone been told when they are going on a BMOQ Mod 2 course yet? I have been posted to BTL but I'm waiting to hear when I'm getting course loaded.


----------



## SJBeaton

kreuot said:
			
		

> Congrats! That must have been a frustrating wait lol. I go mine near the end of June and I thought that was a long wait.
> 
> Sidenote: Has anyone been told when they are going on a BMOQ Mod 2 course yet? I have been posted to BTL but I'm waiting to hear when I'm getting course loaded.



Congrats 123abc! 

Kreuot- I heard that this could potentially be a painfully long (even by military standards) training plan schedule (Mod2, NETPO, and LOCC). I believe that I'm tentatively loaded on the April 18 course. Hoping to get more insight when I get back to the office in a couple of weeks...


----------



## jasperhudierez

Just curious how many years have people been trying for UTPNCM: shortest/longest? 


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----------



## kreuot

SJBeaton said:
			
		

> Congrats 123abc!
> 
> Kreuot- I heard that this could potentially be a painfully long (even by military standards) training plan schedule (Mod2, NETPO, and LOCC). I believe that I'm tentatively loaded on the April 18 course. Hoping to get more insight when I get back to the office in a couple of weeks...


 Ouch I was hoping to be loaded onto the MOD 2 portion of the course running from Sep-Nov. Now I might be stuck on P2 pay for another year. Please let me know once you get some news. I'll do the same if I hear anything new.


----------



## misratah500

LMAO, I just got my rejection message for UTPNCM LOGO today. Like wtf man. I knew I wasn't getting it cause the BPSO called Ottawa like 6-8 weeks ago, but to finally see my message now ironically after the 2018 competition just opened is freaking hilarious.

So screw LOGO for 2018, its MARS now. I have a question for the forum, has anyone who has applied for MARS UPTNCM ever been rejected? I hear they pretty much take everyone if you pass CFAT and MOST scores.


----------



## kreuot

misratah500 said:
			
		

> LMAO, I just got my rejection message for UTPNCM LOGO today. Like wtf man. I knew I wasn't getting it cause the BPSO called Ottawa like 6-8 weeks ago, but to finally see my message now ironically after the 2018 competition just opened is freaking hilarious.
> 
> So screw LOGO for 2018, its MARS now. I have a question for the forum, has anyone who has applied for MARS UPTNCM ever been rejected? I hear they pretty much take everyone if you pass CFAT and MOST scores.


Hey. Sorry to hear.  From what I have seen the spots for MARS through UTPNCM and SCP are fairly limited but there aren't very many applicants and quite a few people fail the MOST. As long as you pass you should have a pretty good chance at being picked up. If LOG is what you want just put MARS as a second choice on your application as a backup. Good luck for next year.


----------



## FinnO25

Hey Everyone, Just a question here, If I wanted to take advantage of the ILP in order to upgrade my courses from Highschool and College in order to go to RMC, how long would it take for me to be accepted for the ILP?

Thanks in advance!

FinnO


----------



## mariomike

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> If I wanted to take advantage of the ILP in order to upgrade my courses from Highschool and College in order to go to RMC, how long would it take for me to be accepted for the ILP?



This may help,

All things Individual Learning Plan/ILP (merged) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/27773.25


----------



## FinnO25

Cheers!

Thanks Mike! :moose:


----------



## mariomike

FinnO25 said:
			
		

> Thanks Mike! :moose:



You are welcome. Good luck.


----------



## misratah500

Does anyone know when the trades will tell the PSO offices how many positions they have to fill for each trade for UTPNCM. My PSO said they were late last year and didn't come out until the spring.


----------



## sidemount

Check the SIP on DWAN. The numbers for utpncm dont change much year to year anyway.


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----------



## Eye In The Sky

An easy way to find the SIP used to be to do a DWAN search for Basic Production Documents...I don't have DWAN access for the next little bit to verify that still works.


----------



## misratah500

Well I know 2 years ago UTPNCM MARS had like 5 spots, but according to the DWAN document dated year 2017/2018 it just has 1 spot. Does that seem right? MARS is always looking for people. Do those numbers cease to be relevant in Jan?


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

Check the CANFORGEN which are released around August that indicate which trades are open and the deadlines for the competitions. Then compare that to the SIP which are on the in-service selection website, found on CMP/DGMC websites.


----------



## misratah500

So I did some comparing and the SCP CANFORGEN says that NCS Eng is open for competition, but when you look at the numbers in that file on the CMP website it says that there are 0 intake for SCP. So I don't think the numbers are accurate and these are last years numbers.


----------



## sidemount

Where you find the SIP, there should be another file for outyears (cant remember the exact name) but yeah look at next years in take numbers(they usually have like 5 years out) as that is the timeframe for selection.

Id send you a link but im off of dwan for a few more months.

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----------



## misratah500

Hmm never seen that before. I worked in recruiting and the SIP was decided every year. The military never has the foresight to see 5 years ahead for anything. I hope i find what you are talking about, but i've trawled through the CMP website as much as i can.


----------



## sidemount

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Hmm never seen that before. I worked in recruiting and the SIP was decided every year. The military never has the foresight to see 5 years ahead for anything. I hope i find what you are talking about, but i've trawled through the CMP website as much as i can.


Ha aint that the truth. 

But yes it it is there, when you find the SIP file, there are usually a few others like the trade status and outcap matrix. And out years is either its own file, or the years are tabs in another (again sorry I dont have dwan or Id just send you a link)
They are just projected numbers and are pretty fluid. However utpncm and scp numbers dont change much from year to year.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## misratah500

This is the screen shot of the page that holds the SIP, inside the actual file there is only the one year. The only sub tabs are for NCM and Officer trades FY 17/18 only.


----------



## PuckChaser

I haven't ever seen the website list more than 2 FYs for SIP. Usually it'll have 2 years because the next FY document will be released sometime in February, so FY18/19 should be there shortly. It'd be pretty impossible to keep multiple years updated due to changes in manning throughout the year has a cascade effect on OUTCAPs and ISS programs.


----------



## misratah500

Agreed, odds are they pulled the FY 2016/2017 file down over the summer. They'll add up the FY 18/19 file in the new year. The SIP always came out in the new year for the external stuff, don't see how it wouldn't for the internal stuff. 

The numbers they have up there current are reflecting last years competitions then.


----------



## PuckChaser

Any changes to the numbers are likely +/- 1 or 2, depending on the size of the officer trade and its health. And you're likely right, as UTPNCM/ROTP would have to have all its positions filled by June/July of that FY so the members can confirm attendance in their post-secondary institution. Much like where recruiting puts a full court press on ROTP applications in the Jan/Feb timeframe and then closes them for anyone trying to get into school that September.


----------



## garb811

The SIP is driven by the AMOR (Annual Military Occupation Review).  There is crystal balling that goes on with that out to about 5 years, due to the requirement to try to figure out how many to bring in for ROTP/UTPNCM so they reach OFP at the right time to meet the forecast vacancies and then the short(er) lead time intake programs (DEO, SCP, CFR, OT etc) are fine tuned yearly to fill in the shortfalls or overages that result from that.

For the MP Branch, the AMOR takes place in the late October time frame, I suspect the rest are done at about the same time in order to set the numbers for the next FY.  When the selection program opening messages are cut in the August/September time frame they don't know how many vacancies there will be exactly, just if there is a need for a specific program.


----------



## sidemount

misratah500 said:
			
		

> This is the screen shot of the page that holds the SIP, inside the actual file there is only the one year. The only sub tabs are for NCM and Officer trades FY 17/18 only.


Bah I swear it used to be there! Haha

Either way, you are likely right as the numbers reflect the selections from this year. 

The comp that just opened wont select anyone until next fiscal year and the numbers will be based on that fiscal year and not this one. Not very many spots though no matter how you slice it for utp and scp.

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----------



## MissMercury

Hi All,

I applied to the UTPNCM program for this year, and I have my interview coming up on Thursday. I'm assuming I can expect questions like: 
"Why did you choose *chosen occupation*"?
"Why do you think you'd make a good officer?"
"Tell me about this AWOL charge on your conduct sheet"

Any other prep questions you guys can throw my way? Goona have a friend prep me for the interview over the next few days.

Thanks!


----------



## MasterInstructor

MissMercury said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> I applied to the UTPNCM program for this year, and I have my interview coming up on Thursday. I'm assuming I can expect questions like:
> "Why did you choose *chosen occupation*"?
> "Why do you think you'd make a good officer?"
> "Tell me about this AWOL charge on your conduct sheet"
> 
> Any other prep questions you guys can throw my way? Goona have a friend prep me for the interview over the next few days.
> 
> Thanks!



Interview questions are not to be discussed. That is something they cover as the first thing on your interview.


----------



## jofafa

According to a reliable source, there were 10 spots for LOG O under UTPNCM last year, number is 16 for 2018. More retirements than usual apparently. Good for us!


----------



## MasterInstructor

Numbers are available on DWAN to anyone 

It is my 3rd try at LOG. 

I am now a 3rd year Economics Student. Hopefully this year will be the one!


----------



## misratah500

The numbers on the CMP website are still last year's numbers. It was 15 LOGO last year. The numbers for next year are not known yet. 

I'm applying for MARS and they only took 1 last year so if its like that this year, I'm probably screwed.


----------



## jofafa

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Numbers are available on DWAN to anyone
> 
> It is my 3rd try at LOG.
> 
> I am now a 3rd year Economics Student. Hopefully this year will be the one!




I don't think your number of courses done affect your competitiveness.


----------



## misratah500

Anyone here apply for UTPNCM MARs this year. I know there are two of us on the west coast. Just trying to get an idea of the competition. Considering last year was 1 and the year before was 5 spots it could mean we're all good, or its a crap shoot.


----------



## winnipegoo7

A couple years ago I spoke to a PSO major about intake numbers and he told me that they aren’t worth looking at. 

He told me that the numbers per trade per intake program (ie Mars spots for utp or scp etc) were not ´concrete’. He explained that the numbers could be adjusted for a variety of reasons. His example was that they might ´steal’ a spot from utp to make another scp spot if they thought it would be beneficial to do so.

So I wouldn’t worry about the numbers. 

He told me the most important factor is CFAT score


----------



## sidemount

I will second the CFAT score....it is the most important part...worth the most points. A rewrite was the difference between just meeting the requirement and to actually getting selected for me.

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----------



## sidemount

I will second the CFAT score....it is the most important part...worth the most points. A rewrite was the difference between just meeting the requirement and to actually getting selected for me.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## jofafa

sidemount said:
			
		

> I will second the CFAT score....it is the most important part...worth the most points. A rewrite was the difference between just meeting the requirement and to actually getting selected for me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk



Can you tell us from what score to what score you went? I re-wrote mine as well this year.
Thanks !


----------



## sidemount

I went from the 65th percentile to the 93rd percentile.

I dont recall the raw score. My gains were in the problem solving though as my score in language stayed the same and spatial went up a small bit.


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----------



## jofafa

sidemount said:
			
		

> I went from the 65th percentile to the 93rd percentile.
> 
> I dont recall the raw score. My gains were in the problem solving though as my score in language stayed the same and spatial went up a small bit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk



Thank you for your input.  I just went to 93 percentile as well and the PSO said it is looking very good for this year


----------



## sidemount

jofafa said:
			
		

> Thank you for your input.  I just went to 93 percentile as well and the PSO said it is looking very good for this year


Almost the exact words the PSO told me, and I received an offer that year.

Best of luck!
Now the fun waiting game haha

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## jofafa

sidemount said:
			
		

> Almost the exact words the PSO told me, and I received an offer that year.
> 
> Best of luck!
> Now the fun waiting game haha
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk



Thank you! Last year was a long wait, but i didn't know what i scored. At least this year i know i have a very good chance so the waiting game will be a bit better!


----------



## SJF1988

Wondering with SCP how many times people applied before being accepted? It’s my first year this year and at my rank level I have little leadership (military side) experiences. And just an “average” file. After PSO interview I’m definitely not feeling the warm and fuzzies on my chances of getting it. 
Also wondered if anyone knows whether the element you select has any bearing? I know Army LOG is hurting really bad, would they be more inclined to select someone based on them choosing land? Or does element not matter?


----------



## jofafa

Anybody got an acceptance yet?


----------



## sidemount

Way too early to expect an offer yet.

Mid April, and May seems to be when they start each year.

The waiting game sucks but you are going to have to wait a bit longer.


----------



## misratah500

Oh Dude, the last two years people were getting offers as late as end of June. Offers are supposed to start in April but that hasn't been the case since 2015. So I expected May/June/July for offers, really fucks people that need cost moves over.


----------



## sidemount

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Oh Dude, the last two years people were getting offers as late as end of June. Offers are supposed to start in April but that hasn't been the case since 2015. So I expected May/June/July for offers, really fucks people that need cost moves over.


Aint that the truth.
I had my offer on the 2nd of june. Posting message mid june with a COS of mid july. I had to push my COS back the 30 days just to be able to fit the move in.
It was very hectic.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## ridsteram

.


----------



## misratah500

So what do you think are the Vegas odds of offers actually coming out in April this year like they're supposed too?


----------



## sidemount

misratah500 said:
			
		

> So what do you think are the Vegas odds of offers actually coming out in April this year like they're supposed too?


I think the odds are better of hell freezing over

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## winnipegoo7

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Oh Dude, the last two years people were getting offers as late as end of June. Offers are supposed to start in April but that hasn't been the case since 2015. So I expected May/June/July for offers, really ****s people that need cost moves over.



Offers started coming out in April of 2016. 

It’s your choice to accept the offer. If your main concern is a cost move then just reject the offer and stay a NCM.


----------



## misratah500

So my buddy who kept this real quiet, just got his CFR offer for NCS Eng today. Sooooo maybe the offers are gonna come out on time this year....


----------



## jofafa

That's good news!


----------



## Th3team

Any updates of anyone getting an answer for Pilot ( UTPNCM 2018) ?


----------



## MasterInstructor

Th3team said:
			
		

> Any updates of anyone getting an answer for Pilot ( UTPNCM 2018) ?




Honestly from what I understand If you passed ACS, then you are pretty much guaranteed to get it. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ridsteram

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Honestly from what I understand If you passed ACS, then you are pretty much guaranteed to get it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I really hope you are right.


----------



## SJF1988

FYI SCP offers are rolling out. A friend of mine got theirs this week.


----------



## jofafa

SJF1988 said:
			
		

> FYI SCP offers are rolling out. A friend of mine got theirs this week.



Are SCP and UTPNCM offers coming out around the same time usually?


----------



## MikC

UTPNCM messages are also rolling out. Hooray !!!!


----------



## misratah500

What offer did you see?


----------



## MikC

Sorry I meant the messages from the CMs. No actual offers yet.


----------



## Sub_Guy

My CFR offer was on the street on Mar 27th.    

I know it’s a different program, but don’t they originate from the same office?   :dunno:

Good luck!


----------



## JulesB

I spoke with my CM today and he said the board has sat and offers should start rolling out soon, good luck everyone!


----------



## ridsteram

JulesB said:
			
		

> I spoke with my CM today and he said the board has sat and offers should start rolling out soon, good luck everyone!



Did he let you know if you made it or not? Or say to wait?


----------



## JulesB

ridsteram said:
			
		

> Did he let you know if you made it or not? Or say to wait?



He wasn’t allowed to tell me unfortunately but said I would know very soon. Fingers crossed, it’s my second year trying for army log. If I don’t get it then I’m posted to Cold Lake...


----------



## Buttz

Are CM's allowed to turn your offer down if you get selected by the board? Based on trade health and issues like that.


----------



## sidemount

Buttz said:
			
		

> Are CM's allowed to turn your offer down if you get selected by the board? Based on trade health and issues like that.


Nope, from what I have been told by the "powers that be" is that it is just an fyi for the CMs to better plan their postings. Going from NCM to officer is not subject to the trade health. Cant provide references but this came from a much higher rank and a serious guy that I take seriously when I went through selection as my trade was red at the time.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Buttz

sidemount said:
			
		

> Nope, from what I have been told by the "powers that be" is that it is just an fyi for the CMs to better plan their postings. Going from NCM to officer is not subject to the trade health. Cant provide references but this came from a much higher rank and a serious guy that I take seriously when I went through selection as my trade was red at the time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk



Thanks for the quick reply. That is what I thought I had heard, but I never really looked into it.


----------



## jofafa

JulesB said:
			
		

> He wasn’t allowed to tell me unfortunately but said I would know very soon. Fingers crossed, it’s my second year trying for army log. If I don’t get it then I’m posted to Cold Lake...



Yep same here, 2nd year for army log. Good luck!


----------



## CanadianGeoguy

Anyone else apply for CELE this year?


----------



## virtualwog

I also applied for (air) Log... the stats on the SIP from Feb 18 make it seem like pretty good odds, 15 positions with 16 applicants projected for UTPNCM. Good luck to all, it's just a waiting game now.


----------



## jofafa

virtualwog said:
			
		

> I also applied for (air) Log... the stats on the SIP from Feb 18 make it seem like pretty good odds, 15 positions with 16 applicants projected for UTPNCM. Good luck to all, it's just a waiting game now.



Yep my PSO said they take a bit more than last year. Prepare for an element change because i heard Air is pretty full...


----------



## virtualwog

jofafa said:
			
		

> Yep my PSO said they take a bit more than last year. Prepare for an element change because i heard Air is pretty full...



I rolled army first, so it won't kill me to flip back over the fence. I'll just wait and see what comes; a DEU change won't stop me from accepting an offer.


----------



## ridsteram

virtualwog said:
			
		

> I also applied for (air) Log... the stats on the SIP from Feb 18 make it seem like pretty good odds, 15 positions with 16 applicants projected for UTPNCM. Good luck to all, it's just a waiting game now.



I'm looking at the SIP now for log and its showing under the target internal UTPNCM column 15 positions... then it is showing 16 under "Intake-to-date" LOG utpncm. Does that mean they have already selected 16 people? Why do you say that it means 16 projected applicants?


----------



## misratah500

My friend I think you are seeing last years numbers, FY 17/18 SIP is from last year that ended April 1. We are UTPNCM SIP FY 18/19. You're looking at the people they hired last year, and yes its stupid, but the numbers sit in that chart all year long because the offers were between May to August FY 17/18 and they keep them in there until they release the new numbers. 

I worked at recruiting for 3 years so I'm familiar with how SIPs work. Once they update this sheet after Feb 2018 which was last time they did it should reflect the demand they have for CFR/SCP/UTP, but for now you're looking at out dated numbers. They took 16 LOGOs last year but I guarantee you they rejected many more, I know cause I was one of the ones that got rejected last year.


----------



## ridsteram

misratah500 said:
			
		

> My friend I think you are seeing last years numbers, FY 17/18 SIP is from last year that ended April 1. We are UTPNCM SIP FY 18/19. You're looking at the people they hired last year, and yes its stupid, but the numbers sit in that chart all year long because the offers were between May to August FY 17/18 and they keep them in there until they release the new numbers.
> 
> I worked at recruiting for 3 years so I'm familiar with how SIPs work. Once they update this sheet after Feb 2018 which was last time they did it should reflect the demand they have for CFR/SCP/UTP, but for now you're looking at out dated numbers. They took 16 LOGOs last year but I guarantee you they rejected many more, I know cause I was one of the ones that got rejected last year.



I am looking at the 17/18 ones and that makes a lot of sense thank you for clarifying! so only 1 out of 3 for pilot was filled UTP last year... interesting. But now that I look at many of the other trades the numbers are matching...so that definitely confirms it. 

I was just interpreting the 17/18 competition to apply to the 17/18 sip but since fiscal year has reset that makes a lot more sense. thanks again


----------



## virtualwog

ridsteram said:
			
		

> I am looking at the 17/18 ones and that makes a lot of sense thank you for clarifying! so only 1 out of 3 for pilot was filled UTP last year... interesting. But now that I look at many of the other trades the numbers are matching...so that definitely confirms it.
> 
> I was just interpreting the 17/18 competition to apply to the 17/18 sip but since fiscal year has reset that makes a lot more sense. thanks again



You are correct in your original interpretation, I believe. I had my interview mid Feb, the BPSO advised me there were 15 positions and 16 applicants this year. Following this, the intake for the SIP applies to the past year, 17/18, when we applied(the intake for 17/18 shows applications for 17/18, not applicants of 16/17 who started school in 17/18). The next SIP will show applicants in the year 18/19. Similar to how new enrollments show people who enrolled in 17/18, not people who enrolled in 16/17. 

Also, when I said projected applicants, I was referring to the 16 applications having been received for this FY(notwithstanding any withdrawals). I apologize if this was not clear.


----------



## misratah500

Where in the SIP document can you see applicants. I only see positions available and positions filled.


----------



## virtualwog

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Where in the SIP document can you see applicants. I only see positions available and positions filled.



I am inferring that the Intake To-Date column refers to applicants, as the UTPNCM value would not change over time if it was referring to the previous year's applicants/intake (given the application period of approx. Oct-Jan). Of course, I could be wrong, it just fits together too smoothly with confirmation of only 16 applicants and 15 positions for this year.


----------



## regulator12

Has anyone heard anything regarding UTPNCM messages? My local BPSO has not seen any yet. My coc has heard rumors about some folks from the career manager and that's about it.


----------



## jofafa

regulator12 said:
			
		

> Has anyone heard anything regarding UTPNCM messages? My local BPSO has not seen any yet. My coc has heard rumors about some folks from the career manager and that's about it.



Nothing in Trenton. I heard somebody from North Bay had his posting  and promotion cancelled by his CM because he will be given an offer.


----------



## misratah500

Been pretty quiet on the UTP front so far. Outside of rumors from CMs has anyone actually seen a message?


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Been pretty quiet on the UTP front so far. Outside of rumors from CMs has anyone actually seen a message?



I am not even sure which CMs get the intel. When I talked with my CM during my interview he said he prob would not hear anything until the message because I am NESOP and applied for LOGO. He said that if I applied for MARS, he could have inside info but unlikely for LOG since it’s so different. 

Supply CM is more likely to have insider info.

He said that if I got a rejection, he would cut me up a posting message immediately to a ship and I haven’t seen a message yet. Fingers crossed! At least I know that my career manager did not hear anything about a rejection for me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Been pretty quiet on the UTP front so far. Outside of rumors from CMs has anyone actually seen a message?



On another note this is the last year I am applying for UTP. This is my 3rd try. I have been attending university this whole time and I’m graduating in December so I will just apply for SCP at that point or get out and get back in as a direct entry officer.


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----------



## CanadianGeoguy

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Been pretty quiet on the UTP front so far. Outside of rumors from CMs has anyone actually seen a message?



Nothing official yet here in Esquimalt - for me at least - only grumblings and 'un-officialness' from the career shop/snr trade members rumour mill (no names, just numbers/ranks but we have a very small trade).  I have an active posting message for this summer so they're tracking that as well.  They've told me not to spend anything yet, which is a hint in my opinion, but I'm definitely a "show me the message" kind of guy when it comes to believing anything.


----------



## leibel52

Just got my offer in. 00178 ARMD. RMC


----------



## CanadianGeoguy

leibel52 said:
			
		

> Just got my offer in. 00178 ARMD. RMC



Congrats and good luck with your studies! Hopefully the rest of them are rolling out as well.


----------



## misratah500

Anyone else with official offers? CFR's started back on April 4th, so I'm assuming its not UTPNCM's turn.


----------



## CanadianGeoguy

A co-worker of mine has his message in hand (UTPNCM). They are rolling them out.


----------



## ridsteram

Khisanth said:
			
		

> A co-worker of mine has his message in hand (UTPNCM). They are rolling them out.



What trade did he receive?


----------



## numberstrategy

I received an offer for UTPNCM Pilot at a civilian university on Friday.


----------



## jofafa

numberstrategy said:
			
		

> I received an offer for UTPNCM Pilot at a civilian university on Friday.



Very nice that means offers are starting to come out. Congrats!


----------



## winnipegoo7

A buddy of mine got his offer for UTPNCM pilot on Friday as well.


----------



## Glade88

Has anyone heard anything about SCP Messages? 
Or strictly only UTPNCM at this time?


----------



## maybesharp

Got my message for UTPNCM today.

NWO at RMC

This is going to be interesting...


----------



## jofafa

maybesharp said:
			
		

> Got my message for UTPNCM today.
> 
> NWO at RMC
> 
> This is going to be interesting...



Was that your first choice or did you have civi u as first choice? And if so, are you near kingston petawawa trenton?


----------



## maybesharp

jofafa said:
			
		

> Was that your first choice or did you have civi u as first choice? And if so, are you near kingston petawawa trenton?



It was my first choice.  I've been in for 13 yrs, and to be honest I was a little concerned about getting along/studying with 18 yr olds who probably wouldn't appreciate my experiences/attitudes... Probably the old man in me screaming "get off of my lawn" talking here.

I am in Kingston already, I've worked at the clinic at/for RMC flr the last 5 yrs.


----------



## jofafa

maybesharp said:
			
		

> It was my first choice.  I've been in for 13 yrs, and to be honest I was a little concerned about getting along/studying with 18 yr olds who probably wouldn't appreciate my experiences/attitudes... Probably the old man in me screaming "get off of my lawn" talking here.
> 
> I am in Kingston already, I've worked at the clinic at/for RMC flr the last 5 yrs.



Okay thanks for your input and congrats!


----------



## misratah500

Well at least i know there is more than one NWO this year, cause i know of another one that got his offer today to UVIC for NWO. Still waiting on mine...


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> Well at least i know there is more than one NWO this year, cause i know of another one that got his offer today to UVIC for NWO. Still waiting on mine...



Good luck! I am waiting for LOG from Esquimalt as well. 3rd try. Let me know if you hear of any LOG offers..


----------



## misratah500

@MasterInstructor, this is your third time? Did you ever rewrite your CFAT? I know my BPSO wants me too, if I don't get anywhere this year. So much for MARS taking anyone. But there is still lots of time.


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> @MasterInstructor, this is your third time? Did you ever rewrite your CFAT? I know my BPSO wants me too, if I don't get anywhere this year. So much for MARS taking anyone. But there is still lots of time.



Yes, it is my 3rd time trying for LOG. I was told I did not need to re-write the CFAT. Specially because my mark would not improve. I got 29/30 in problem solving. What drags my mark is the English portion (English is my second language) You can not really study for those words haha

I have been going to UVIC for the past couple years under many different leave types. Just finished my 3rd year. I am doing my 4th year, 1st semester in the summer. If I get a rejection for UTPNCM again, I am releasing and applying as a DEO after I graduate in December.


----------



## misratah500

I got my offer this afternoon, NWO, UVIC, Poli Sci 2nd year.

This was my fourth attempt at this program. INTO/LOGO in 2008/2009, LOGO 2017, MARS/NWO 2018


----------



## MasterInstructor

misratah500 said:
			
		

> I got my offer this afternoon, NWO, UVIC, Poli Sci 2nd year.
> 
> This was my fourth attempt at this program. INTO/LOGO in 2008/2009, LOGO 2017, MARS/NWO 2018



Congrats! Looks like they are coming out Trade by trade. I am guessing you are at Esquimalt. How did you get your offer? call from BPSO? Ordely room? CoC?


----------



## CanadianGeoguy

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Congrats! Looks like they are coming out Trade by trade. I am guessing you are at Esquimalt. How did you get your offer? call from BPSO? Ordely room? CoC?



This is the only thing keeping me hopeful at the moment - that I haven't seen any CELE offers yet... Seems like there's a lot of us Esquimalt people here.  I was really hoping for something today - another one of my trade co-workers in Ottawa got Int today as well.


----------



## misratah500

My Chief called me into his office, and handed me the offer. Fuckers couldn't even get my service number right.


----------



## Thunderprime

Khisanth said:
			
		

> This is the only thing keeping me hopeful at the moment - that I haven't seen any CELE offers yet... Seems like there's a lot of us Esquimalt people here.  I was really hoping for something today - another one of my trade co-workers in Ottawa got Int today as well.



Same here.  Haven't heard anything about CELE or AERE.  Hopefully soon, this living in limbo really sucks.


----------



## numberstrategy

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Congrats! Looks like they are coming out Trade by trade. I am guessing you are at Esquimalt. How did you get your offer? call from BPSO? Ordely room? CoC?



That's interesting. I have two co-workers who applied for ACSO and haven't heard anything yet. Has anyone heard of ACSO offers going out yet?


----------



## CanadianGeoguy

I received my offer for CELE today - going to be attending RMCC this fall.  See some of you in Otter Sqn in Sept!


----------



## MasterInstructor

Khisanth said:
			
		

> I received my offer for CELE today - going to be attending RMCC this fall.  See some of you in Otter Sqn in Sept!



Congrats man! Good luck out there  

Anybody waiting for LOG here?


----------



## Glade88

I'm waiting for LOG. But through SCP..


----------



## jofafa

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Congrats man! Good luck out there
> 
> Anybody waiting for LOG here?



I am. Second try


----------



## nordi

Applied for CELE/AERE, nothing yet. First try.


----------



## JulesB

jofafa said:
			
		

> I am. Second try



Same here, second try as well. Not feeling very hopeful at this point.


----------



## nordi

My buddy is applying for LOGO (only choice). Nothing yet either. I think we're gonna have to cross our fingers pretty hard.


----------



## jofafa

JulesB said:
			
		

> Same here, second try as well. Not feeling very hopeful at this point.



It's still early offers started to come out not even a week ago.. and no one from LOG O had answer yet on here


----------



## virtualwog

JulesB said:
			
		

> Same here, second try as well. Not feeling very hopeful at this point.



Any idea on your stats? From what I understand it's CFAT, grades/courses and interview which covers your potential of receiving an offer or not...I don't know the exact figures though, just that it's 60 points for the CFAT. I'm curious how bad the odds really are; when I had my interview, BPSO Halifax said there were 15 positions for LOG UTPNCM this year, and 16 applicants. I'm not sure if that includes people who have LOG as their second choice though, or who else it might entail.

For reference, my stats are 97th percentile on the CFAT, 3.9GPA over 7 courses, and my background is logistics trades which was covered in the interview. However, this is my first time applying, so I don't know if that is a factor as well. Just going by the '15 positions, 16 applicants' you'd think everyone is getting in this year.

**EDIT** I did not apply to RMC, but I did state my willingness to attend if offered. I'm not sure if that makes a difference either.


----------



## MasterInstructor

I think there are much more applicants than 16. I did not get it for the past 2 years, this is my 3rd time trying. My CFAT is only 82 percentile due to my English. I am not re-writing it because English is not something I can improve quickly. 

I completed 28 courses in my degree and currently a 4th year BSc Economics student at UVIC. Overall GPA is 6.27 out of 9 (UVIC System). I ranked #1 for promotion to MS twice in a row but turned it down. I completed PLQ DL. I am not from a LOG trade but have a lot of business experience outside of military.


----------



## virtualwog

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> I think there are much more applicants than 16. I did not get it for the past 2 years, this is my 3rd time trying. My CFAT is only 82 percentile due to my English. I am not re-writing it because English is not something I can improve quickly.
> 
> I completed 28 courses in my degree and currently a 4th year BSc Economics student at UVIC. Overall GPA is 6.27 out of 9 (UVIC System). I ranked #1 for promotion to MS twice in a row but turned it down. I completed PLQ DL. I am not from a LOG trade but have a lot of business experience outside of military.



I can say positively that he said there were 16 applicants and 15 positions. The only other way I can construe that, is if there were '16 applicants for Halifax' and 15 positions across Canada. I'm still trying to think positive.

On the off chance, could it be for strategic planning purposes, that they don't intake UTPNCM personnel who have less than 3 years remaining in school? Just throwing it out there, I'm not sure if that's a factor but I'm trying to work all the angles. If you don't get it this year, you said you're going to release and re-enlist DEO?

And if anyone has concrete answers to any of my speculations, please share. It would be appreciated.


----------



## MasterInstructor

virtualwog said:
			
		

> I can say positively that he said there were 16 applicants and 15 positions. The only other way I can construe that, is if there were '16 applicants for Halifax' and 15 positions across Canada. I'm still trying to think positive.
> 
> On the off chance, could it be for strategic planning purposes, that they don't intake UTPNCM personnel who have less than 3 years remaining in school? Just throwing it out there, I'm not sure if that's a factor but I'm trying to work all the angles. If you don't get it this year, you said you're going to release and re-enlist DEO?
> 
> And if anyone has concrete answers to any of my speculations, please share. It would be appreciated.



You are correct that there were only 15 positions. 16 applicants from Halifax also seems too high. Who knows... I hope you are right! I would think it is highly unlikely that I was the 16th and only guy who did not get LOG last year and the year before... 

I have 2 years left listed in my application because that is what it was when I applied. Since then, I completed another year worth of courses and taking another 8 this summer. I can graduate in December If I wanted to. This is not reflected in my application though since application was submitted last fall. If I get UTPNCM, I am going to change my degree to commerce and go to school for another 2 years, work towards CPA. I am putting in my release the same day I get a rejection message and applying as DEO the day of my release date


----------



## MasterInstructor

virtualwog said:
			
		

> I can say positively that he said there were 16 applicants and 15 positions. The only other way I can construe that, is if there were '16 applicants for Halifax' and 15 positions across Canada. I'm still trying to think positive.
> 
> On the off chance, could it be for strategic planning purposes, that they don't intake UTPNCM personnel who have less than 3 years remaining in school? Just throwing it out there, I'm not sure if that's a factor but I'm trying to work all the angles. If you don't get it this year, you said you're going to release and re-enlist DEO?
> 
> And if anyone has concrete answers to any of my speculations, please share. It would be appreciated.




Actually just realized. 3 people just stated that this is their 2nd or 3rd time applying for LOG, so 15 positions and 16 applicants is not possible.


----------



## virtualwog

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> You are correct that there were only 15 positions. 16 applicants from Halifax also seems too high. Who knows... I hope you are right! I would think it is highly unlikely that I was the 16th and only guy who did not get LOG last year and the year before...
> 
> I have 2 years left listed in my application because that is what it was when I applied. Since then, I completed another year worth of courses and taking another 8 this summer. I can graduate in December If I wanted to. This is not reflected in my application though since application was submitted last fall. If I get UTPNCM, I am going to change my degree to commerce and go to school for another 2 years, work towards CPA. I am putting in my release the same day I get a rejection message and applying as DEO the day of my release date



Ah, from what I understand there are 15 positions for this year. From my understanding, previous years have had as low as 6/8 positions. Also, I don't believe your offer position changes such as it would for postings/promotions; if you score let's say 90 last year, and are the ninth person and the only one unselected, you don't become spot number one the next year. If eight more people apply and all score 91 and you still score 90, you stay at the bottom. I can't think of why else people would be reapplying so consistently but not sliding up positions. 

The CFAT is a big portion of it though; the process has been restructured to put more weight onto it recently, which is why it's now worth about 60 points I believe. In my interview, and I'm sure in yours as well, if you've asked what you can do to increase your chances, the CFAT was stressed for importance. I was recommended to seek more community leadership opportunities such as Scouting and Big Brothers programmes, if I don't succeed this year.


----------



## MasterInstructor

virtualwog said:
			
		

> Ah, from what I understand there are 15 positions for this year. From my understanding, previous years have had as low as 6/8 positions. Also, I don't believe your offer position changes such as it would for postings/promotions; if you score let's say 90 last year, and are the ninth person and the only one unselected, you don't become spot number one the next year. If eight more people apply and all score 91 and you still score 90, you stay at the bottom. I can't think of why else people would be reapplying so consistently but not sliding up positions.
> 
> The CFAT is a big portion of it though; the process has been restructured to put more weight onto it recently, which is why it's now worth about 60 points I believe. In my interview, and I'm sure in yours as well, if you've asked what you can do to increase your chances, the CFAT was stressed for importance. I was recommended to seek more community leadership opportunities such as Scouting and Big Brothers programmes, if I don't succeed this year.



Last year it was 15 and the year before was 10. You can find the SIP numbers on DWAN.


----------



## virtualwog

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Last year it was 15 and the year before was 10. You can find the SIP numbers on DWAN.



I'm having difficulty tracking historical ones; if you could provide a link I would greatly appreciate it.

Calculating 15 this year(17/18 SIP), 15 last year(16/17 SIP), 10 the year before that(15/16 SIP) - that's a 50% increase between last year and the previous. If we go back to about 2013/2014, that's when I started looking into the program; it's also when I was told the positions were very competitive and very limited(approx. 6-8).

If an upward trend in position availability continues, most likely due to attrition rates as well as other factors, perhaps we will see as many as 18 or 20 LOG UTPNCM positions in the coming years. Or it could cap out and start being more competitive again, what do I know. I don't have enough data to crunch the numbers on at this time.


----------



## nordi

Hmm.. then the selection may not work in such a way that if there are 15 positions and 15 applicants, that all of applicants will get in. I heard there are many factors involved and depending on who is on the board there may be slight differences year-by-year.


----------



## virtualwog

I'll have to apologize, I was reading the SIP incorrectly. It made sense to me the way I was reading it, but that was just coincidental.

The 17/18 SIP was last years, which would make 16/17 the one which had 10 LOG positions. Some good news though, I just spoke with BPSO Halifax and they confirmed there have been no LOG offers yet; they received three engineering officer messages this morning though so good luck to you engineers out there!


----------



## MasterInstructor

virtualwog said:
			
		

> I'll have to apologize, I was reading the SIP incorrectly. It made sense to me the way I was reading it, but that was just coincidental.
> 
> The 17/18 SIP was last years, which would make 16/17 the one which had 10 LOG positions. Some good news though, I just spoke with BPSO Halifax and they confirmed there have been no LOG offers yet; they received three engineering officer messages this morning though so good luck to you engineers out there!



Thanks for the update!


----------



## jofafa

Really hope all of us LOG applicants are accepted this year! The Civi U i applied for this year went on Lockdown yesterday hope that will be resolved before the fall 😡


----------



## nordi

How do I access the SIP numbers? I have searched din without success.. maybe wrong keywords. PM me if necessary.

Thanks


----------



## eorceme

nordi said:
			
		

> How do I access the SIP numbers? I have searched din without success.. maybe wrong keywords. PM me if necessary.
> 
> Thanks



Hi,
on the DIN http://cmp-cpm.mil.ca/en/support/military-personnel/dpgr-index.page
go to production reports and at the bottom should be a SIP scorecard


----------



## sheilainthevalley

I'm waiting to hear on Log O too, but through SCP. I'm also Land and asked for Air (posting restrictions). First attempt and I'm doubtful but I want the message to at least 'close the chapter'. Good luck to everyone else waiting!
Side note - I process messages in my unit and haven't seen any come through yet. We're a small unit but still. I've heard rumours of some UTP-NCM messages for PSO, but that's it.


----------



## nordi

Wow.. looking at CELE/AERE numbers the competition last year was pretty stiff. Not many offers to go around. Hope its very different this year, otherwise my chances are ultra slim.


----------



## jofafa

There was one offer in Trenton UTPNCM don't know which trade but not LOG. They said sometimes the members know before the PSO office so..


----------



## virtualwog

jofafa said:
			
		

> There was one offer in Trenton UTPNCM don't know which trade but not LOG. They said sometimes the members know before the PSO office so..



Occasionally I'm sure that happens. Apparently the message is supposed to go to your message center/OR, as well as the BPSO. Still waiting for LOG, fingers crossed.


----------



## nordi

I'm in Trenton, when I spoke to BPSO early week there was only 1 offer for the PSO trade.


----------



## sheilainthevalley

nordi said:
			
		

> I'm in Trenton, when I spoke to BPSO early week there was only 1 offer for the PSO trade.



The UTP-NCM offer I heard (for PSO) was in Cold Lake. Maybe they're the first trade to cut their messages? Hopefully we'll all hear soon. I don't think there's any reason to be discouraged at this stage in the game -- we're still early.

I'm definitely keeping my eye out for offers though. It gives you an idea if you should start to feel disappointed yet...


----------



## nordi

Does anyone know the number of applicants vs available slots for each trade this year?


----------



## RatCatcher

Anyone see any PAO offers yet?


----------



## virtualwog

nordi said:
			
		

> Does anyone know the number of applicants vs available slots for each trade this year?



I received my info for LOG, 15 positions and 16 applicants, from the BPSO during my interview.


----------



## MasterInstructor

virtualwog said:
			
		

> I received my info for LOG, 15 positions and 16 applicants, from the BPSO during my interview.



This is not correct. Please do not keep repeating it. Either you misunderstood what you were told or the BPSO had no idea what they were talking about. 

There is also no way of knowing how many people have applied at the point of your interview as some people may not even had their interviews yet or had their files processed after your interview. I had my interview on Jan 10th for example.


----------



## virtualwog

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> This is not correct. Please do not keep repeating it. Either you misunderstood what you were told or the BPSO had no idea what they were talking about.
> 
> There is also no way of knowing how many people have applied at the point of your interview as some people may not even had their interviews yet or had their files processed after your interview. I had my interview on Jan 10th for example.



I am giving you the answer he gave me, and it was the answer to my question of what my odds were of getting an offer. Specifically I detailed that I was aware the positions were very competitive, and was curious to know what the standings were, and he obliged. I found my interviewer to be very courteous, and have no reason to doubt his knowledge over the personnel selection field based on speculations from others. 

I am aware people can be misinformed, and if that is the case then I will apologize. Certainly any number of factors could have been unaccounted for when he provided that answer, but I am not in a position to say what was and was not considered. I'm a logical person, and will bow down in the face of evidence. However, at this time, I have no qualms against standing by what I was told. 

It is completely possible to know the number of applicants, as the competition closed for submissions in January (31st), and my interview was in early/mid February. The likelihood of there being more applicant files after the deadline, is significantly less than the odds of files currently submitted being written off because of missing qualifications/improper submissions.


----------



## MasterInstructor

virtualwog said:
			
		

> I am giving you the answer he gave me, and it was the answer to my question of what my odds were of getting an offer. Specifically I detailed that I was aware the positions were very competitive, and was curious to know what the standings were, and he obliged. I found my interviewer to be very courteous, and have no reason to doubt his knowledge over the personnel selection field based on speculations from others.
> 
> I am aware people can be misinformed, and if that is the case then I will apologize. Certainly any number of factors could have been unaccounted for when he provided that answer, but I am not in a position to say what was and was not considered. I'm a logical person, and will bow down in the face of evidence. However, at this time, I have no qualms against standing by what I was told.
> 
> It is completely possible to know the number of applicants, as the competition closed for submissions in January (31st), and my interview was in early/mid February. The likelihood of there being more applicant files after the deadline, is significantly less than the odds of files currently submitted being written off because of missing qualifications/improper submissions.




 From the bottom of my heart I hope you’re correct. I just emailed my BPSO to inquire about this information. I will report back


----------



## HiTek

virtualwog said:
			
		

> I am giving you the answer he gave me, and it was the answer to my question of what my odds were of getting an offer. Specifically I detailed that I was aware the positions were very competitive, and was curious to know what the standings were, and he obliged. I found my interviewer to be very courteous, and have no reason to doubt his knowledge over the personnel selection field based on speculations from others.
> 
> I am aware people can be misinformed, and if that is the case then I will apologize. Certainly any number of factors could have been unaccounted for when he provided that answer, but I am not in a position to say what was and was not considered. I'm a logical person, and will bow down in the face of evidence. However, at this time, I have no qualms against standing by what I was told.
> 
> It is completely possible to know the number of applicants, as the competition closed for submissions in January (31st), and my interview was in early/mid February. The likelihood of there being more applicant files after the deadline, is significantly less than the odds of files currently submitted being written off because of missing qualifications/improper submissions.




Well if you are correct and I reject LOG for another trade offer than you will all get in this year! 

I can confirm as of yesterday that there are no offers for LOG in my OR yet, only offer here for UTPNCM so far is one for INF. I am in the NCR.


----------



## jofafa

Is today our lucky day?


----------



## nordi

Based on previous experience, since the canforgen states 18-May, I'm expecting that the bulk of offers will be delivered closer to that date..


----------



## Roughneck_JRico

Morning All,

Just to throw some fuel on the fire, LOG messages are starting to come out. We had an offer for LOG AIR come in last Wednesday here in Shearwater (I'm HRA).

I'm waiting to hear on PAO for myself, fingers crossed for all of you!


----------



## eorceme

nordi said:
			
		

> Based on previous experience, since the canforgen states 18-May, I'm expecting that the bulk of offers will be delivered closer to that date..


May 18 is a reference to the month of May year 2018, so they have until the end of the month to be considered on time as per the canforgen.


----------



## nordi

You are correct. I read it wrong, now I have more than 3 weeks to bite my nails lol.


----------



## virtualwog

Roughneck_JRico said:
			
		

> Morning All,
> 
> Just to throw some fuel on the fire, LOG messages are starting to come out. We had an offer for LOG AIR come in last Wednesday here in Shearwater (I'm HRA).
> 
> I'm waiting to hear on PAO for myself, fingers crossed for all of you!



Consider the fuel ignited. I'm waiting for LOG AIR in Shearwater, but am currently away from my unit...somehow I don't think that message is mine. This is only my first attempt.


----------



## MasterInstructor

virtualwog said:
			
		

> Consider the fuel ignited. I'm waiting for LOG AIR in Shearwater, but am currently away from my unit...somehow I don't think that message is mine. This is only my first attempt.



Well that is exciting, good luck! Although, I am confused why you do not think the message is not yours? 16 applicants and 15 positions. What are the chances of you being that 1 person who did not get it, especially when combined with the odds that out of the 16, another person also applied for Log Air from Shearwater.... Not to mention your CFAT score is much higher than mine...  Statistically, if the information is correct, that offer is pretty much yours


----------



## virtualwog

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Well that is exciting, good luck! Although, I am confused why you do not think the message is not yours? 16 applicants and 15 positions. What are the chances of you being that 1 person who did not get it, especially when combined with the odds that out of the 16, another person also applied for Log Air from Shearwater.... Not to mention your CFAT score is much higher than mine...  Statistically, if the information is correct, that offer is pretty much yours



Well I'll try to be optimistic about it, but I'm thinking more like if it's the first offer released, it's likely someone who has already applied previously...and if there is a message for me I think it would be more like the 12th or 13th of the 15 messages. I'm not the only person to apply from Shearwater, but it is my first time so I figure an offer would be later on, after the other person.

Honestly, still holding onto the optimism that what I was told is correct, as well. No offense to you, but if I look at it from your point of view, it's a little depressing. I don't want to start worrying and getting down in the dumps about it, probably why I'm so defensive. So I'll keep upbeat and wait to see what comes.


----------



## MaritimeMogul

Good Morning all,

Just thought I would chime in after being selected last year for Log-Sea (UTPNCM) on my first attempt. With the dinner bell calling, I can remember too well how jittery or on edge you all are to find out. I just thought I would highlight and stress the important things to get picked, and if you don't what to improve on.

1.) The single most important thing is your CFAT score. Find it out, and better it!!! After getting picked, I had three or four PM`s that were the same thing. "hey MaritimeMogul, congrats on getting picked. My CFAT score was 40/60, and the PSO says its an average score.... do you think its good enough?" The long and short of the answer in my opinion is NO!.... The cutoff (in raw score is 38/60) which is average and plenty of people can apply with that score. The CFAT is worth 60% of your score, and it conveniently has 60 questions... Get my drift?

Not to be a buzz kill, but once I found out my score was average, I decided to challenge the CFAT. I studied long and hard on the internet, at sea during deployment, and even downloaded a paid app (CFAT Trainer) and did the 700 questions on there. Well it paid off as I scored 54/60 on the CFAT and to this day I believe it is the single biggest reason I was picked!

2.) The second important thing in my opinion is to not hold up your career while you wait around to get picked/not. I've read a few people that have turned down promotions to the next rank level? Why, would you do this????????? Take the promotion to MCpl/MS and get your PLQ, make more money, and further pad your pensionable earnings. Not only does it give you a small, but definite one up.... PLQ will prevent you from doing the damned BMOQ mod2. Who wants to go back to St.Jean for a second time?? This guy sure isn't interested in going this summer but being that my education is free, so be it....

I hate to sound so blunt but it has to be said to often is iffy information passed around, and I'll scroll through and read it and shake my head.

I wish you all well and hope you all get picked, but if not keep your head high and improve on these things. Remember if UTPNCM doesn't work out now, its not to say that CFRP wouldn't work out. I had a friend denied all three times he applied for UTPNCM, but got picked on his first attempt at CFRP.

Cheers!


----------



## jofafa

I went from 44 to 54 as well on the CFAT, we will see how it turns out


----------



## MaritimeMogul

jofafa said:
			
		

> I went from 44 to 54 as well on the CFAT, we will see how it turns out



That's great! I'm glad to hear you did that! Hopefully your interview and Personality Trait Exam went well too. What program and trades did you apply for?


----------



## jofafa

They both went pretty good. I am an army traffic tech, applied for LOG O - any element, and for a bachelor of business admin


----------



## MasterInstructor

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> Good Morning all,
> 
> Just thought I would chime in after being selected last year for Log-Sea (UTPNCM) on my first attempt. With the dinner bell calling, I can remember too well how jittery or on edge you all are to find out. I just thought I would highlight and stress the important things to get picked, and if you don't what to improve on.
> 
> 1.) The single most important thing is your CFAT score. Find it out, and better it!!! After getting picked, I had three or four PM`s that were the same thing. "hey MaritimeMogul, congrats on getting picked. My CFAT score was 40/60, and the PSO says its an average score.... do you think its good enough?" The long and short of the answer in my opinion is NO!.... The cutoff (in raw score is 38/60) which is average and plenty of people can apply with that score. The CFAT is worth 60% of your score, and it conveniently has 60 questions... Get my drift?
> 
> Not to be a buzz kill, but once I found out my score was average, I decided to challenge the CFAT. I studied long and hard on the internet, at sea during deployment, and even downloaded a paid app (CFAT Trainer) and did the 700 questions on there. Well it paid off as I scored 54/60 on the CFAT and to this day I believe it is the single biggest reason I was picked!
> 
> 2.) The second important thing in my opinion is to not hold up your career while you wait around to get picked/not. I've read a few people that have turned down promotions to the next rank level? Why, would you do this????????? Take the promotion to MCpl/MS and get your PLQ, make more money, and further pad your pensionable earnings. Not only does it give you a small, but definite one up.... PLQ will prevent you from doing the damned BMOQ mod2. Who wants to go back to St.Jean for a second time?? This guy sure isn't interested in going this summer but being that my education is free, so be it....
> 
> I hate to sound so blunt but it has to be said to often is iffy information passed around, and I'll scroll through and read it and shake my head.
> 
> I wish you all well and hope you all get picked, but if not keep your head high and improve on these things. Remember if UTPNCM doesn't work out now, its not to say that CFRP wouldn't work out. I had a friend denied all three times he applied for UTPNCM, but got picked on his first attempt at CFRP.
> 
> Cheers!



@MaritimeMogu First of all, congrats on your selection. I hope your first year of university has been great! Your 2 points are very valid and absolutely correct for the majority of the people. I felt the need to respond because I did not re-write CFAT and I turned down promotions. Everyone's situation and thought process is different. Since you asked, here is why:

1- CFAT Score. I am at 82 percentile for NCMs. This is not a very competitive score and initially I was compelled to re-write it. However, once I learned my scores for individual sections of the test, I decided that I could not do much better. I got 29/30 on the problem solving skills. I got a 11/15 on spacial ability and 7/15 on language. I am sure I could study hard and maybe get couple more correct on the spacial but unfortunately language section is not something I can improve by studying much. English is my second language and that deeper level of vocabulary comes with years of using the language. Please correct me if you think I am wrong but this is my thought process. 

2- I turned down promotions even though I was ranked #2 and then #1 in my trade. I am a NESOP which is a hard sea trade. I sailed on ships for about 4 years then got an amazing shore posting which people normally stay for 2-3 years. I ranked #2 about 7 months after getting there. I would have been promoted to MS and sent back to ships for another 3-4 years. On top of that, my CoC was extremely supportive of my academic ambitions. They started giving me 14 academic days for every term of school. I started attending UVIC and taking 4-6 courses per term. Since my position is a shift work, I was able to work evenings and weekends. I formed a social life, I got into the school routine. I attended classes with the same people through terms. I love my university life. I decided to stick with school no matter what. I am still getting paid and I am getting my education paid through ILP. On top of that, I do not owe time back to the military. I am doing my 4th year in economics right now. When I applied I put down I still have 2 years to finish which true because I would end up switching my major to commerce which is a better degree. 

If my single goal was to get into the UTPNCM program, your points are valid but I have other factors that effect my decisions. I am done with being a NESOP and I am done with sailing. I am ready to get out and get back in if necessary. Right now, my education and my life quality are my top priority.


----------



## nordi

I thought my CFAT was decent, but now im thinking I should have re-done it. My scores were roughly 92-NCM and i think 73-Officer. Cant remember my individual scores, but language was also my low point (second lang) which i have vastly improved since i took the test (E E E lang prof). I wish my PSO would have put more emphasis on the weight of this score.

Well, too late now. Fingers still crossed.


----------



## CanadianGeoguy

MaritimeMogul said:
			
		

> 1.) The single most important thing is your CFAT score. Find it out, and better it!!! After getting picked, I had three or four PM`s that were the same thing. "hey MaritimeMogul, congrats on getting picked. My CFAT score was 40/60, and the PSO says its an average score.... do you think its good enough?" The long and short of the answer in my opinion is NO!.... The cutoff (in raw score is 38/60) which is average and plenty of people can apply with that score. The CFAT is worth 60% of your score, and it conveniently has 60 questions... Get my drift?



I'm going to second this for everyone here - the CFAT counts for 60% of your total score that goes to the boards (the rest being your personality test and the interview results/how well they feel you're a fit for the occupation(s) you applied for).  If you have a low CFAT score, study up and write it again.  It doesn't matter if you're applying for the 1st or 5th time, you're going up against everyone who applied for that year.  As an example: I got selected this year on my first try, and I had a CFAT score of 55.2/60.  It doesn't matter that this was my first year applying, or that I wrote the CFAT 18 years ago fresh out of high school with math, science and English fresh in my head.  Fair or not, it's what the process is based on and probably the easiest/fastest way to improve your chances of getting selected.

Good luck to everyone out there still waiting on an offer!


----------



## ridsteram

Khisanth said:
			
		

> I'm going to second this for everyone here - the CFAT counts for 60% of your total score that goes to the boards (the rest being your personality test and the interview results/how well they feel you're a fit for the occupation(s) you applied for).  If you have a low CFAT score, study up and write it again.  It doesn't matter if you're applying for the 1st or 5th time, you're going up against everyone who applied for that year.  As an example: I got selected this year on my first try, and I had a CFAT score of 55.2/60.  It doesn't matter that this was my first year applying, or that I wrote the CFAT 18 years ago fresh out of high school with math, science and English fresh in my head.  Fair or not, it's what the process is based on and probably the easiest/fastest way to improve your chances of getting selected.
> 
> Good luck to everyone out there still waiting on an offer!



What does that score equate to in percentile for officers? What trade did you come from?


----------



## CanadianGeoguy

ridsteram said:
			
		

> What does that score equate to in percentile for officers? What trade did you come from?



I have no idea what that equates to in terms of NCM or Officer standings, I was just given my raw score.  I am a Geo Tech and I got picked up for CELE.


----------



## MasterInstructor

There has not been any news on offers since last Thursday.... Ugh.


----------



## virtualwog

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> There has not been any news on offers since last Thursday.... Ugh.


 
Might be able to shed some light on that. I contacted my BPSO office today, spoke with the civilian administrator. She said there's a conference in Ottawa this week, and not to expect any message unless it was already cut and waiting to be released. My BPSO's email has an out-of-office message until Monday. We might just have to sit tight until next week.


----------



## MasterInstructor

virtualwog said:
			
		

> Might be able to shed some light on that. I contacted my BPSO office today, spoke with the civilian administrator. She said there's a conference in Ottawa this week, and not to expect any message unless it was already cut and waiting to be released. My BPSO's email has an out-of-office message until Monday. We might just have to sit tight until next week.



Thanks for the info! 

I haven't heard from my BPSO re: number of applicants


----------



## Damen

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Well that is exciting, good luck! Although, I am confused why you do not think the message is not yours? 16 applicants and 15 positions. What are the chances of you being that 1 person who did not get it, especially when combined with the odds that out of the 16, another person also applied for Log Air from Shearwater.... Not to mention your CFAT score is much higher than mine...  Statistically, if the information is correct, that offer is pretty much yours



Was that for UTPNCM or SCP?


----------



## jofafa

UTP


----------



## nordi

Edit: I will ensure I have verified numbers next time.


----------



## kratz

The value of this site is not rumour, innuendo, whispers or tea readings.

Alcon this thread, reread this site's Conduct Guidelines, which is kindly provided at the bottom of all pages on these forums.

This is your warning.

*Kratz 
DS*


----------



## MasterInstructor

kratz said:
			
		

> The value of this site is not rumour, innuendo, whispers or tea readings.
> 
> Alcon this thread, reread this site's Conduct Guidelines, which is kindly provided at the bottom of all pages on these forums.
> 
> This is your warning.
> 
> *Kratz
> DS*



Everyone speaking on this thread is happy and value sharing information to best of our abilities. No one is complaining. Let us continue what we are doing as everyone involved in the conversation is satisfied with the conduct. I thought we were over with over-reaching, micromanaging moderation of this site.


----------



## kratz

Nordi succeeded in a fast "nija edit" of their post. 

I stand by the warning.


----------



## jofafa

Good luck this week!


----------



## K1tesurf

I think anyone who hasn't heard anything by now probably wasn't selected in the initial round. I am told I have a fairly strong file; however this is my second attempt and still not selected. I feel like my file with my experience would be very strong against civilians off the street for an ROTP/DEO position. Has anyone gotten out and gotten back in? With the new approved VAC school money I am seriously considering giving this UTP one more try and then just releasing so I can get my UNI finished, if I manage to get back in that's great otherwise I guess its on to civvy life lol.


----------



## MaritimeMogul

K1tesurf said:
			
		

> I think anyone who hasn't heard anything by now probably wasn't selected in the initial round. I am told I have a fairly strong file; however this is my second attempt and still not selected. I feel like my file with my experience would be very strong against civilians off the street for an ROTP/DEO position. Has anyone gotten out and gotten back in? With the new approved VAC school money I am seriously considering giving this UTP one more try and then just releasing so I can get my UNI finished, if I manage to get back in that's great otherwise I guess its on to civvy life lol.



I wouldn't give up hope just yet. Every year there are delays in the release of messages for one reason or another. You have to remember (unless things have drastically changed in just one year), that there is only a Captain and a Sergeant responsible for all message review and drafting for release. They take care of all the programs, so their busy! Be patient for now!

Fun fact: I was picked on my first application last year, on the initial round of messages and the message DTG was 1 Jun. Patience is a virtue !


----------



## jofafa

It is still early. CANFORGEN says end of May...


----------



## regulator12

I can confirm two pers from our unit out west have recieved their offers a couple weeks ago. One was infantry the other was LOGO army.


----------



## MasterInstructor

I think it is pretty much done now except few secondary offers which happen if someone does not accept their offer.


----------



## nordi

Well thats pretty dissapointing.. Oh well more online courses for me.


----------



## MasterInstructor

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> I think it is pretty much done now except few secondary offers which happen if someone does not accept their offer.



Correction. Esquimalt received an offer this morning. No trade was specified. Info is from BPSO office after I asked if they are still getting offers.


----------



## jofafa

Again, CANFORGEN states NLT MAY 18, which means they still have another 2 weeks. Plenty of time


----------



## Damen

Any information regarding SCP offers?


----------



## MasterInstructor

I just got info on my 3rd rejection for Log Sea. Not a message but it was through the CM. I was told I was not close to make the cut. Even if few people did not take their offers, I would not make it. 

This also disproves the info on 15 positions and 16 applicants


----------



## Glade88

Damen said:
			
		

> Any information regarding SCP offers?



I'm wondering the same thing. I've only heard members getting UTPNCM Offers/Messages. I haven't heard anything on SCP. I felt really good about my application right after my interview. As the months go by I'm feeling less confident.


----------



## sheilainthevalley

I found out from an insider that I did not make the cut for two of my trades I was competing for. I inquired about the third trade and was told that a mandatory piece of the application was not completed, so I was ineligible from meriting on that board. To add insult to injury, I was told that it would have been my most competitive option (not a guaranteed win, but a chance), had I completed the final piece.

I had never heard of that piece of the application and I don't know if I have any options aside from waiting another year and competing again. Has this happened to anybody? Anyone have suggestions for moving forward?


----------



## MasterInstructor

sheilainthevalley said:
			
		

> I found out from an insider that I did not make the cut for two of my trades I was competing for. I inquired about the third trade and was told that a mandatory piece of the application was not completed, so I was ineligible from meriting on that board. To add insult to injury, I was told that it would have been my most competitive option (not a guaranteed win, but a chance), had I completed the final piece.
> 
> I had never heard of that piece of the application and I don't know if I have any options aside from waiting another year and competing again. Has this happened to anybody? Anyone have suggestions for moving forward?



You would need to wait another year. Too bad your BPSO office did not catch the missing piece. Which piece was it if you do not mind me asking?


----------



## sidemount

The RCEME NCMs CM brief for this year had a slide about in service selection and listed that for UTPNCM last year there were almost 300 applications for 156 positions. Anyone can go look at this as its on DWAN on any of the 4 RCEME trades occupation info. No particular mention of any individual trade.

The BPSO in my selection year mentioned that Log is one of the most sought after positions. 16 applicants for 15 spots makes no sense....maybe 16 from that base would be more accurate?



Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


----------



## sheilainthevalley

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Which piece was it if you do not mind me asking?



It was a written test on communication.


----------



## MasterInstructor

sheilainthevalley said:
			
		

> It was a written test on communication.



I ha e never heard of that for any trade. There is a personality test (Maybe all officer) required for some trades. Your BPSO should have given you that information. You could file a grievance but next years selection will be faster... 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## crumplestiltskin

sheilainthevalley said:
			
		

> It was a written test on communication.



Guessing it was the one for PAO?

Either way that sucks. PSO should've been more on the ball...


----------



## winnipegoo7

sheilainthevalley said:
			
		

> I found out from an insider that I did not make the cut for two of my trades I was competing for. I inquired about the third trade and was told that a mandatory piece of the application was not completed, so I was ineligible from meriting on that board. To add insult to injury, I was told that it would have been my most competitive option (not a guaranteed win, but a chance), had I completed the final piece.
> 
> I had never heard of that piece of the application and I don't know if I have any options aside from waiting another year and competing again. Has this happened to anybody? Anyone have suggestions for moving forward?




I have no idea what you're talking about, but if it was not your fault I would submit a grievance. If it was your fault, reapply next year and get all prerequisite completed on time.


----------



## sheilainthevalley

winnipegoo7 said:
			
		

> I have no idea what you're talking about, but if it was not your fault I would submit a grievance. If it was your fault, reapply next year and get all prerequisite completed on time.



I had no idea about the test. I would assume the PSO should have told me. I am pretty familiar with policy and it took me a bit of digging to verify the necessity of the test, but maybe it was my responsibility to ask for the test to be administered? Even if the grievance was found it my favour I’m not sure what type of result would come of it. I’m not out to get anybody in trouble, I’m just disappointed that it feels like I wasted this year’s competition.


----------



## crumplestiltskin

Pretty sure they are talking about the additional testing for a PAffO application.

From experience this year, if the PSO doesn't mention it (i.e. get you to do it) you wouldn't even know it's required.


----------



## Roughneck_JRico

I put in for PAO this year as well. The Test is the Written Communication Proficiency Test. So long as you pass it your file goes to the board, if it's incomplete or you fail then your file stops immediately.

Hoping to see a message soon one way or another. Hopeful, but there were only 2 UTP spots open for it last year; so time will tell.

I'm assuming those selected would know by now, but we'll see what happens!


----------



## nordi

According to PSO office (as of this morning), there have been no UTP offers through Trenton yet. There was an Ottawa conference stipulated as a delay for the cutting of messages, they are expecting them by the end of May.


----------



## jofafa

nordi said:
			
		

> According to PSO office (as of this morning), there have been no UTP offers through Trenton yet. There was an Ottawa conference stipulated as a delay for the cutting of messages, they are expecting them by the end of May.



Thanks for that. I'm in Trenton as well (2 air mov)


----------



## virtualwog

sidemount said:
			
		

> The RCEME NCMs CM brief for this year had a slide about in service selection and listed that for UTPNCM last year there were almost 300 applications for 156 positions. Anyone can go look at this as its on DWAN on any of the 4 RCEME trades occupation info. No particular mention of any individual trade.
> 
> The BPSO in my selection year mentioned that Log is one of the most sought after positions. 16 applicants for 15 spots makes no sense....maybe 16 from that base would be more accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk



Unfortunately, I'm leaning towards you being correct. Terrible to hear that 'you've got really good odds' but find out those odds are only against Halifax, vice all of Canada.

I apologize to you, MasterInstructor, regarding my earlier postings. It seems at this point it's still a waiting game. I wish you the best of luck, in either this selection or your plans going forward.


----------



## armouredguy23

Hey guys, new to this topic but i figured i'd throw my  :2c: into the frey. We have had two offers that i know of in Bagotville, both for LogO Air, them both being to myself and a colleague of mine in the same unit. Both of us have been accepted on our first tries, with both of us have similar "statistics", being 93rd percentile CFAT scores, 4.07 GPA (not sure what his grades are) with 10 university courses, and neither of us being MCPL or PLQ qualified. He received his two weeks ago whereas i received mine just this Friday. He initially received an offer for RMC and almost immediately received a second one for civilian university, whereas mine was initially on only for civy uni. Another friend of mine (same unit) is still waiting for his, but he applied for PSO. If you have any questions please don't hesitate, but i'm not sure i'll be able to help you too too much. I only posted to give anyone who's still waiting some solace that messages are still coming in.

Take care.


----------



## jofafa

If you received yours this friday, there is still hope! Étrangement, i also have 93 percentile, 10 courses done with similar results, cpl.. lol!


----------



## nordi

Just wondering.. The 10 courses you took, were they related to your degree? Were they core/related to major?


----------



## jofafa

Mine are part of a Bachelor of administration.


----------



## armouredguy23

Yes. I essentially completed a certificate (minor) in business administration, not sure how important the type of courses taken is in the process, but I can't figure it's all that important. I'm thinking grades might be more pertinent, but that's pure speculation on my part, all I know is that even if they are or aren't taken into account, they should only affect the score of your interview portion.


----------



## jitterbug

CFAT=60%     Experience(Interview) & Leadership Experience/CO's Reference=25%   Personality Test=15% 

That is your breakdown.  The CFAT score is the single BIGGEST factor in selection.  Your courses and marks are important but not super important.  If you have a CFAT in the 90th+ percentile you have a very good chance of being selected depending on what you are applying for and the number of applicants.  Don't be discouraged though if you aren't that high as I got in with a much much lower score than that and still beat out at least 1 person for a position.  Just keep doing everything you can to increase your experience in that direction and make yourself as useful as possible to your unit so you get a good reference.

Another tip is to apply to as many trades as possible.  It is all about breaking the Officer barrier.  It is much easier to become an Officer off the street than it is to be a serving member which is ridiculous but that's the way it is.  Once you are an Officer you have new options within the system and you can try and transfer through voluntary transfer or you may be able to compulsory transfer if you fail out of training(not advisable way to do it but it has been done).  Don't think just because you fail once that they will show you the door back to the NCM world.  Once you are in they will do what they can to keep you but that being said you aren't immune to being punted.

I'm not going to lie, getting into the Officer world was the single best decision I've made in my career.  One thing I have noticed on this thread is that is some information being shared is not necessarily true.  Take it upon yourself to educate yourself about policy and the various programs pertaining to commissioning.  Its all out there you just have to weed through the DIN and find it.  It is very time consuming but don't waste too much time on it beyond what I mention about CFAT and PD.

The SIP numbers are merely an indicator.  They are not hard numbers.  The numbers can be changed for any number of reasons.  Don't put too much into them.  Just focus on improving your CFAT and doing as much PD as possible to make yourself a better candidate while you wait around.  Try not to think too much about when your offer will or won't come as it will eat you alive reading the comments of others.  Quite honestly just forget about it for the time being and if you haven't heard anything by July than chances are you weren't selected and you need to contact your CM to confirm.

Being an Officer is not the end-all be-all to life so keep doing well in your current occupation in-case things don't work out for you.  If being an Officer is your end-all be-all and you aren't getting in than just release and get back in as an Officer.  You will be closer to the top of the pile with your experience than most other people off the street.  For the most part the CAF is screaming for Officers from many different trades.

I wish you all the best of luck and I hope you get whatever it is that makes you happy.  If you get in the program is unreal good as there is virtually no supervision/oversight and you will enjoy the school life and your classmates are super jealous of you that you are paid to go to school.  Especially if you already have alot of credits as you are living on easy street only having to take bare minimum amount of courses per term.  Another reason to keep doing more courses while you wait!


----------



## Damen

Just wondering if anyone had heard on the status of SCP  offers? It seems to be getting late, but last I talked to BPSO they had only two messages for UTPNCM.


----------



## dabed92

I am still waiting for my UTPNCM message. I've heard that some people started to receive their answer two weeks ago. Let's keep the faith!


----------



## Glade88

My PSO spoke to the commissioning team today and they said SCP messages will start trickling out VERY soon. The commissioning manager is starting to cut offers, so we should hear very soon. UTPNCM applicants usually hear first because their message sometimes comes with a posting as well as because they need it at a decent time for schooling purposes.
So hopefully in the next week or two we find out! Good luck! 



			
				Damen said:
			
		

> Just wondering if anyone had heard on the status of SCP  offers? It seems to be getting late, but last I talked to BPSO they had only two messages for UTPNCM.


----------



## HiTek

I know that an SCP offer for Log was received by an applicant today.


----------



## nordi

Office in Trenton still has not received any UTPNCM offers. Its the only reason im still keeping hope.


----------



## jofafa

It will probably be like last year with offers in july-august lol


----------



## jib9022

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> You are correct that there were only 15 positions. 16 applicants from Halifax also seems too high. Who knows... I hope you are right! I would think it is highly unlikely that I was the 16th and only guy who did not get LOG last year and the year before...
> 
> I have 2 years left listed in my application because that is what it was when I applied. Since then, I completed another year worth of courses and taking another 8 this summer. I can graduate in December If I wanted to. This is not reflected in my application though since application was submitted last fall. If I get UTPNCM, I am going to change my degree to commerce and go to school for another 2 years, work towards CPA. I am putting in my release the same day I get a rejection message and applying as DEO the day of my release date



I feel your pain, please check your PM


----------



## jofafa

No new offer?


----------



## nordi

At this point it really looks like offers will be rolling out in June, as there are only 2 calendar days remaining in May. The fact that Trenton is a major air base and has not received any UTPNCM offers yet as of friday (other than PSO), leads me to believe that the bulk of the offers have not rolled out yet. The wait is really getting to me.

Meanwhile, Vector Calc midterm tomorrow. Wish me luck.


----------



## dabed92

Still haven't received my answer yet.


----------



## jofafa

I feel like it's going to be like last year.


----------



## jofafa

I contacted my PSO today, i said that i would like them to inquire to Ottawa for my file because today is the last day as per the CANFORGEN to have our offers. He said he already spoke to Ottawa and they are working on cutting the messages and that they will not process individual enquiries. We still have hope!


----------



## sheilainthevalley

My PSO was corresponding with Ottawa today and he said that UTPNCM messages are rolling out this week so I shouldn't expect a quick reply (on another matter) -- just a heads up!


----------



## Damen

I spoke with the bpso here in Halifax on Monday and just to add to the other responses, they have just finished selection.


----------



## dabed92

That is good news. Thanks everybody for the info, it's a waiting game...


----------



## jofafa

sheilainthevalley said:
			
		

> My PSO was corresponding with Ottawa today and he said that UTPNCM messages are rolling out this week so I shouldn't expect a quick reply (on another matter) -- just a heads up!



You said they are rolling out this week.. but tomorrow is friday already!


----------



## crumplestiltskin

Lol. Here's one for you.
It's my first year putting in for UTP. After waiting all these weeks with fingers crossed like everyone else I just found out - today - that the OR actually received my offer during the first week of May. It technically expired a little more than a week ago....
I wasn't informed until today for a variety of clerical and OpTempo reasons. Needless to say, I was thrilled.
It turned into quite the hectic afternoon with the UOR & CoC trying to get in touch with 5-2 & CMs respectively to see if it was too late or not. In the end the CM said the offer was miraculously still valid (as second round offers apparently hadn't gone out yet) as long as I sent in my acceptance ASAP. 
So, hoping that this was correct since no one could reach the UTP board pers to confirm, the rest of the afternoon was a mad rush to get new TOS signed and scrounge everything together for the acceptance message to be sent.

So, now I'm back to waiting again, hoping against hope that the CM was correct. What a s#!t show...
BUT, I gotta give a big shout out to the various folks that banded together to help me out this afternoon, couldn't have done it without them.


----------



## jofafa

Well that's a pretty scary story. I hope for you that it all works out.


----------



## nordi

Congratulations! What trade offer did you receive? What school? Cost move?

Also, did they tell you why there was a delay from your OR to forward the offer?


----------



## crumplestiltskin

jofafa said:
			
		

> Well that's a pretty scary story. I hope for you that it all works out.



Me too, thanks!



			
				nordi said:
			
		

> Congratulations! What trade offer did you receive? What school? Cost move?
> 
> Also, did they tell you why there was a delay from your OR to forward the offer?



Int. Carleton. No cost as I'm already in the NCR.

Ref the delay - there was no delay on the OR's part. I saw the email they sent out same day. I'll just leave it at a combination of clerical error / OpTempo.


----------



## nordi

Thanks for info!


----------



## HiTek

Same story as crumplestiltskin. My utp offer was cut in April and is still sitting in my OR. I have still not received it through my chain. I was able to describe the situation to a member in my OR and had them print me a hard copy just before the deadline to accept and I then contacted the originator of the message directly.


----------



## jofafa

What is wrong with these people man, our career is on the line here


----------



## jofafa

Got it! LOG Land Civi U (Trois-Rivières)


----------



## nordi

Congrats!


----------



## crumplestiltskin

Congrats!


----------



## jofafa

Thanks guys


----------



## dabed92

Congratulations!


----------



## jofafa

I'm surprised I'm the only one as a member said they were apparently drafting offers this week.


----------



## nordi

I figure they might have just started doing the main bulk.. My guess its that most offers will be sent by end of next week unless something else stalls them. Apperently they were unusually swamped with other various work this year and they fell behind on OTs.


----------



## fastuniball

Hey everyone, currently an applicant just asking a question. How do you know what trades are available for UTPNCM and what the intake numbers are, can you apply for any trade in any element? Thank you!

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## sidemount

fastuniball said:
			
		

> Hey everyone, currently an applicant just asking a question. How do you know what trades are available for UTPNCM and what the intake numbers are, can you apply for any trade in any element? Thank you!
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


There is a strategic intake plan posted on a DWAN site that lists the trades and number of positions.

Yes you can apply for any trade however you need to be taking a degree that is suitable for the paticular trades you are applying for.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


----------



## jofafa

Trades that are open were listed in the CANFORGEN


----------



## fastuniball

sidemount said:
			
		

> There is a strategic intake plan posted on a DWAN site that lists the trades and number of positions.
> 
> Yes you can apply for any trade however you need to be taking a degree that is suitable for the paticular trades you are applying for.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Thank you, are you allowed to provide any info from the DWAN site? Just curious about naval combat systems and Marine systems engineering. Whether or not they even have positions available and intake numbers. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## sidemount

Ill check it out Monday when I am at work.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


----------



## nordi

No offer yet.. probably waiting for a non-selection message at this point.


----------



## dabed92

Hi guys. I called my PSO office today about my request for UTPNCM since many applicants already received their offer but not me. They asked Ottawa about it and Ottawa said that answers can come in up to the end of July. So as long as it does not say no officially, it is still possible. Good luck to those like me that are still looking at Outlook every 10 minutes for a message from their OR! And congrats to those who are accepted in this incredible program!


----------



## Damen

I just spoke with the BPSO office this morning. The admin staff there hasn't seen any offers, but it looks like the 2019 SCP CANFORGEN is rolling out next week, which makes them think all offers have been sent out. Next year I guess.


----------



## fastuniball

sidemount said:
			
		

> Ill check it out Monday when I am at work.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Hi, were you able to find anything out with those two trades? Navel Combat Systems and Marine Systems Engineering? Thanks.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## dabed92

Fastuniball, I just checked last year's CANFORGEN for the trades that are opened for UTPNCM and the two trades you asked for were not available. The CANFORGEN was posted in August so maybe the trades will be available for 2018. Since you seem to be interessted with Navy trades, MAR SS is available. 

CHEERS!


----------



## fastuniball

Thank you for the info!

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## sidemount

fastuniball said:
			
		

> Hi, were you able to find anything out with those two trades? Navel Combat Systems and Marine Systems Engineering? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Sorry had it type out and didnt post it.
Here are the 17/18 numbers...they dont change much from year to year

The SIP has NWO(Mars)/MAR SS at 1, NAV Eng at 0, MS Eng and NCS Eng both at 2.

Keep in mind these are always subject to change.

Sent from my S8 using Tapatalk (expect typos)


----------



## K1tesurf

avn188 said:
			
		

> Fastuniball, I just checked last year's CANFORGEN for the trades that are opened for UTPNCM and the two trades you asked for were not available. The CANFORGEN was posted in August so maybe the trades will be available for 2018. Since you seem to be interessted with Navy trades, MAR SS is available.
> 
> CHEERS!



This in incorrect. Both MS Eng and NCS Eng were available for the 2018 competition, based on CANFORGEN. They are the last two.


----------



## eorceme

Just got my selection message for UTPNCM EME officer, they're still coming in, don't lose hope!


----------



## fastuniball

sidemount said:
			
		

> Sorry had it type out and didnt post it.
> Here are the 17/18 numbers...they dont change much from year to year
> 
> The SIP has NWO(Mars)/MAR SS at 1, NAV Eng at 0, MS Eng and NCS Eng both at 2.
> 
> Keep in mind these are always subject to change.
> 
> Sent from my S8 using Tapatalk (expect typos)


Awesome, good to know. I found DEO intake numbers online (buck_hra) for those trades to be 5-8 this year. 

Currently I'm on the competition list for ROTP, but if I'm not successful I would switch my application to NCM ( W ENG TECH). Then down the road see what happens. It's good to know there is possibility for professional growth.

Thanks everyone.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## dabed92

Sorry for the mistake, did not mean to fool anyone with my fake news...  :facepalm:


----------



## jofafa

fastuniball said:
			
		

> Awesome, good to know. I found DEO intake numbers online (buck_hra) for those trades to be 5-8 this year.
> 
> Currently I'm on the competition list for ROTP, but if I'm not successful I would switch my application to NCM ( W ENG TECH). Then down the road see what happens. It's good to know there is possibility for professional growth.
> 
> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk



This is what i did. I tried for LOG O from the street to go to university. Didn't work so i went Traffic tech. 6 years later i am going back to school. It's good to see both sides and i enjoyed every minute of being an NCM. Good luck!


----------



## fastuniball

That's actually really assuring to read, thank you. Also, congrats on getting it this year, any advice for someone starting their career with UTPNCM as a goal in mind?





			
				jofafa said:
			
		

> This is what i did. I tried for LOG O from the street to go to university. Didn't work so i went Traffic tech. 6 years later i am going back to school. It's good to see both sides and i enjoyed every minute of being an NCM. Good luck!



Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## jofafa

Well always give your maximum and show some leadership. Your CFAT score is worth a lot in your application so try to have 50+, that's what made the difference in my case.

Hope this helps


----------



## nordi

eorceme said:
			
		

> Just got my selection message for UTPNCM EME officer, they're still coming in, don't lose hope!



Congratulations!


----------



## regulator12

Anyone get their UTPNCM posting message yet?


----------



## dabed92

Nothing


----------



## nordi

Information for all:

If you applied for UTPNCM and are willing to attend RMC, you must apply to RMC separately from the UTP application. I just submitted my app to RMC now after getting off the phone with their admissions dept. It looks like I wasn't the only one: some mbrs who have their UTP posting message to RMC did not apply directly to RMC and are now finding out that they have to apply ASAP for a fall term, which is not a guaranteed acceptance.

Just letting you know just in case you were told that you did not need to apply to RMC. That is only if you are willing to attend RMC though.


----------



## Glade88

Still nothing on the SCP Side.. The wait is agonizing. I'm feeling less confident as the days go by.


----------



## nordi

Glade88 said:
			
		

> Still nothing on the SCP Side.. The wait is agonizing. I'm feeling less confident as the days go by.



Same here, I feel the pain. Except I applied for UTPNCM. I really wish that applicants would be notified much earlier whether they were selected / non-selected. Then when the offer message rolls out, then you would know which trade/university etc.. But at least people who weren't selected aren't sitting there hoping, and people who were selected aren't sitting there with a family wondering what will happen that summer.

I guess its all part of the fun haha... its a competition, and the wait is part of it.


----------



## sidemount

nordi said:
			
		

> Same here, I feel the pain. Except I applied for UTPNCM. I really wish that applicants would be notified much earlier whether they were selected / non-selected. Then when the offer message rolls out, then you would know which trade/university etc.. But at least people who weren't selected aren't sitting there hoping, and people who were selected aren't sitting there with a family wondering what will happen that summer.
> 
> I guess its all part of the fun haha... its a competition, and the wait is part of it.


I hear you. The year I was selected, I didnt get the offer until June. I had already decided that I was not selected and started getting other courses lined up for distance education in the fall. Needless to say the rest happened very fast and furious.

As well, posting messages should be out fairly soon. I had mine mid June (2-3 weeks after sending in my acceptance).
Again if you have to move there isnt a ton of time but it is very worth the trouble in the long run.

As for SCP, Ive seen an offer here in Kingston at the end of May so they are filtering out.

Sent from my S8 using Tapatalk (expect typos)


----------



## K1tesurf

nordi said:
			
		

> Information for all:
> 
> If you applied for UTPNCM and are willing to attend RMC, you must apply to RMC separately from the UTP application. I just submitted my app to RMC now after getting off the phone with their admissions dept. It looks like I wasn't the only one: some mbrs who have their UTP posting message to RMC did not apply directly to RMC and are now finding out that they have to apply ASAP for a fall term, which is not a guaranteed acceptance.
> 
> Just letting you know just in case you were told that you did not need to apply to RMC. That is only if you are willing to attend RMC though.



So does that mean you received your offer? When did your offer come in and for what trade?


----------



## nordi

K1tesurf said:
			
		

> So does that mean you received your offer? When did your offer come in and for what trade?



Not yet. I am just crossing my fingers really hard. Applied for CELE and AERE.


----------



## nordi

After speaking to PSO, it looks like all offers have been sent out. I don't have an offer yet, so it looks like I'll have to apply for the next competition. Unless someone refuses their offer, which is very unlikely.


----------



## jsilver18

Any news on posting messages for UTPNCM yet? Does anyone have any idea of when they would be posting those that accepted offers like I assume anyone that accepted an offer starts school in September, so does that mean they'll be moved in August or sooner?


----------



## regulator12

I have not received my posting message yet. I had my UTPNCM message in early May! I imagine all the offers are out and posting messages should be sent out soon. Fingers crossed!


----------



## jsilver18

regulator12 said:
			
		

> I have not received my posting message yet. I had my UTPNCM message in early May! I imagine all the offers are out and posting messages should be sent out soon. Fingers crossed!



I also received mine in early May so waiting for these posting messages is killing me. I just want to know my dates already. What were you accepted for?


----------



## regulator12

I got accepted for infantry and will be taking Business Administration. What about you?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## jsilver18

Got in for LogO-Air. Also taking Business Admin so it should be a good go!


----------



## regulator12

jsilver18 said:
			
		

> Got in for LogO-Air. Also taking Business Admin so it should be a good go!


Congratulations! It will be a great go! I am looking forward to the opportunity!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## nordi

People who got offers this year: how many university courses have you completed for your application?


----------



## jsilver18

I had the minimum required done 4 half-year credits (2 full-year credits). And after applying I completed two more half year credits but those wouldn’t be on my application.


----------



## eorceme

I've completed 4 courses, and was credited I believe 4 (3 hour) credits by Acadia for said courses, but haven't done a plar for poet yet.


----------



## jofafa

Your number of courses have no effect on your file at all. I had 10


----------



## FingerWizard

They messed up my offered school, so I had a series of discussions with the person who was essentially acting as the selection boards for (at least) Int O this year. They were backlogged (and understaffed) to shit at that point, and are normally, and more than just my offer was pooched as well. I was told, by that poor, poor desk jockey, not to expect a posting message until july.


----------



## nordi

jofafa said:
			
		

> Your number of courses have no effect on your file at all. I had 10



How do you know whether the amount of courses doesnt matter? Why would they even have a board if it were only up to the three numbers? (CFAT/Interview/Personality) There would have to be reasons for tie-breaking and such? I don't know I'm just curious.


----------



## jofafa

Your file is as you said CFAT/Interview/Personality. It's just the way it is. They could throw in your Force test and language profile in there as well but they don't.


----------



## Glade88

Feeling pretty defeated. The 2019 SCP Canforgen is out. I'm going to take that as a hint that I didn't get accepted this year.


----------



## K1tesurf

jofafa said:
			
		

> Your number of courses have no effect on your file at all. I had 10



Incorrect. The number of your courses will be part of your interview score. If you have more courses you will have a better score in your interview; however, they have minimal effect compared to say...CFAT.


----------



## nordi

Yeah I'm redoing my CFAT. I thought it was pretty good @ 92 percentile, I guess I really shouldn't have settled lol..


----------



## K1tesurf

nordi said:
			
		

> Yeah I'm redoing my CFAT. I thought it was pretty good @ 92 percentile, I guess I really shouldn't have settled lol..



If it's 92 for officer that is very strong. Be advised that if you write and do worse that is now your new score.


----------



## jofafa

Yah 92 is excellent. I wouldnt risk it to gain a few %...


----------



## sidemount

Agreed, I would talk with your PSO first about your overall score for the competition and see how you can improve it. I dont think a CFAT rewrite is the way to go if you are in the 92% percentile for officers...and if you score lower, that will be  the score you are stuck with like was mentioned.

I would wager a guess that the interview would be the best area for you to improve, but the PSO would be the person to ask.

Sent from my S8 using Tapatalk (expect typos)


----------



## dabed92

UTPNCM canforgen for 2018-2019 just got out yesterday. I'll take it as a hint on my answer....


----------



## nordi

K1tesurf said:
			
		

> If it's 92 for officer that is very strong. Be advised that if you write and do worse that is now your new score.



I don't think it was for officer. I recall that it was in the 70-75 percentile range for officers. Basically I was french and decided to take the test in english, and I ended up having a low score on language lol.. everything else was good.

But as others have mentioned, I will also work on my interview points. PSO will let me know how to get those extra points.

Thanks all, just saw that both trades I applied for are still up for grabs in the new competition!  ;D


----------



## sheilainthevalley

I got my SCP offer Tuesday (the day after this year’s competition CANFORGEN came out). I’m going back to St Jean for BMOQ before the end of this year (yay?).

Good luck everybody. Don't give up hope yet.


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## crumplestiltskin

Number of courses completed definitely has a minimal effect on your UTP score. This was my first year applying and I got picked up with the minimum 4 x 0.5 credit courses complete (2 x 1.0 full year credit equivalent). 

The PSO told me right from the beginning that he was pretty sure I'd get an offer based almost entirely on my CFAT (scored 97th percentile for officers back when I joined in '01) so that is 100% _the most important_ part of your file. It seems rather (completely) silly to weigh the CFAT so heavily - especially when it could be a score from 10, 15, 20 years ago - but for some reason that's how they do it.


Also, I spoke to the selection people on Monday and they said UTP posting messages would start coming out this week. My UOR had received 2 as of Tues (not yet mine)*

Also, also - now, I may be mis-remembering - but I thought it said right in the UTP application paperwork that an application for UTP was considered an automatic application to RMC? Weird that you'd need to apply separately if that is the case...


*Edited for clarity*


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## nordi

Yeah, I will re-take the CFAT. I am very confident I will get a much better score than I did previously.

As for the "automatic application to RMC", based on my conversation with the RMC registrar's office, you must also apply separately to RMC. Basically the BPSO's paperwork needs to be updated, as the lady from the registrar's office mentioned the UTPNCM selection office stopped contacting them several years ago. They have no contact/correspondence with each other, and therefore UTPNCM applicant academic files do not get evaluated for acceptance into RMC. She said people keep being posted to RMC that need to do emergency/last minute applications to programs.

To be fair, the UTPNCM and other selection sections are very understaffed, overworked etc.. this is a pretty minor problem considering.


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## crumplestiltskin

nordi said:
			
		

> Yeah, I will re-take the CFAT. I am very confident I will get a much better score than I did previously.
> 
> As for the "automatic application to RMC", based on my conversation with the RMC registrar's office, you must also apply separately to RMC. Basically the BPSO's paperwork needs to be updated, as the lady from the registrar's office mentioned the UTPNCM selection office stopped contacting them several years ago. They have no contact/correspondence with each other, and therefore UTPNCM applicant academic files do not get evaluated for acceptance into RMC. She said people keep being posted to RMC that need to do emergency/last minute applications to programs.
> 
> To be fair, the UTPNCM and other selection sections are very understaffed, overworked etc.. this is a pretty minor problem considering.



That's interesting. Understaffed seems to be an understatement for those poor folks. They should update the application package if the auto-application is no longer applicable that way people know they need to apply up front.

Anyway, good luck with the CFAT re-write. Definitely worth it.


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## dabed92

Did someone receive a definite NO for UTPNCM yet?


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## sheilainthevalley

avn188 said:
			
		

> Did someone receive a definite NO for UTPNCM yet?



I think they don’t send out the negatives until they’ve received an acceptance from everyone with initial offers. My SCP application has a 21-day time limit so I’m guessing it will be awhile before the non-selection messages go out.


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## jofafa

Received mine end of July last year


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## crumplestiltskin

Using my U of M PLAR as a reference I'm trying to see if Carleton will let me PLAR the same things (POET / PLQ / etc.).

My issue: Carleton is asking for *Detailed Course Descriptions *in addition to course reports/certificates.

Does anybody happen to know where I could find Detailed Course Descriptions for:
2002 POET? 
2010 Army PLQ? 
2015 RCEME DP3?

Or have suggestion on where to look/who to talk to?


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## nordi

For POET i would speak to the CFSCE staff to see if they kept those records. I think a memo from the head of admin at CFSCE stipulating the course content would suffice. As for results, if you do not have the courae reports you may ask for archived course reports.


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## Kraimer

After poking around on the DMCPG page, I came across a .ppt which gives the numbers for last year's selections as follows:

      *Program    Selected   Applicants*
1.   CFR              134           188
2.   SCP               54             91
3.   UTPNCM        69            155
4.   IBDP               9             14
5.   PGT               55            134
6.   MLTP              3              30
7.   MMTP             5              15
8.   MPTP             1               2
9.   MDTP             1               4
10. SEELM            5               5

Of course these numbers change year to year, but I hope that helps give everyone here a rough idea of the odds of being accepted to each program.


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## nordi

What is on a non-selection message? Will it give me details such as applicants / selected and//or areas for improvement? Or are all these details given from BPSO?


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## jofafa

No you will just have a message saying that you were not taken, they don't say anything else. BPSO might give you some hint as how to improve.


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## winnipegoo7

your CoC will be given a copy of your scoring sheet (how you scored for CFAT, interview, etc - the document that was sent to the board).  

Your CoC is not supposed to show this document to you, but you could still ask (like under the table)... if your CoC won't let you peek I think you can request this document through "access to information" (or whatever it's called).

Asking your PSO for feedback / tips is also a good course of action

edited for clarity and grammar


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## jsilver18

Any update on posting messages? Rumour says maybe July?


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## regulator12

Still waiting for mine.


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## jofafa

Clerks said not to wait for anything before June 26, they are changing something in Guardian CF wide and they don't have access to peoplesoft. Don't know all the details I'm not a clerk.


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## eorceme

There was an email sent out yesterday explaining the transition, supposed to take about a week for guardian to fully take over. After that all pers info is supposed to be generated by guardian, including pay and career related stuff.
That's the way I understood it at least.


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## crumplestiltskin

jsilver18 said:
			
		

> Any update on posting messages? Rumour says maybe July?



Got mine on the 18th


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## jsilver18

crumplestiltskin said:
			
		

> Got mine on the 18th



What school? RMC?


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## crumplestiltskin

jsilver18 said:
			
		

> What school? RMC?



No, a civvy U


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## regulator12

Anyone else get their UTPNCM posting message yet? Still waiting out west!


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## jofafa

Still waiting - Trenton


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## jofafa

Got it. Cant register on BGRS before another 5 days thought.


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## crumplestiltskin

jofafa said:
			
		

> Got it. Cant register on BGRS before another 5 days thought.



Congrats!

What's BGRS? An RMC thing or are you going civvy as well?


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## jofafa

BGRS is the people that make your move and HHT. I'm going to a civy school in Quebec  (UQTR)


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## crumplestiltskin

Ah, is that Brookfield or whatever?

Last time I got moved it was still Royal LePage so I'm not super familiar


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## PuckChaser

Yep, Brookfield Global Relocation Services.


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## dabed92

Hi guys. I have a good one for you today. 
I applied for UTPNCM to serve as a PSO. Did 14 university courses on my own time since 2015 (give or take 50% of my Bachelor's degree in psychology). Good Cfat, lots of extra duties, the branch accepted my waiver to continue my degree in my region and so on. My BPSO told me that I did my homework and I would make a good candidate for UTPNCM this year. But as long as you don't have a message in your hands you never know. So time passes by and I become more and more anxious about my answer, coming to a point that a definite NO would be better than the wait. As May and June went by, and seeing many of you guys accepted, I told myself ''ok, not this year'' and I'm fine with it. Today, we received the non-selection message for UTPNCM and my name is not on it!!! So the chief clerk from my unit called Ottawa for a sitrep and they never got my file, which was sent by PSO office on January 31st. This happened to another of my co-workers in April so I even double checked with them back then, to make sure this was not happening to me as well. So my file was sent again today and we will see from there.


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## dabed92

Finally got it! I'm in.


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## jofafa

Nice congrats!!!


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## Kraimer

Congratulations! That was a quick turnaround of your file.

Any additional SCP selections out there?


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## armouredguy23

Can confirm. I'm the other coworker lol. Yeah that was a shit show this year. Two people from just our unit had their files deleted without ever having them opened. We know they were sent, it's just Ottawa apparently deleted them. 
Same deal with me though, except much earlier in the summer. As soon as they found out, bpso re-sent my file and just a few days later I had my offer come in and a few weeks or so after that they sent my posting message.


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## HiTek

My utpncm posting message says BMOQ equivalency granted. Losing unit to enter the qual AIPB. 

As an acting lacky, without plq,  I was under the impression that I would have to do bmoq mod 2. As far as I can tell though, AIPB is the qual for the whole BMOQ.

Am I reading this wrong? Hoping someone on here could shed some light before I go and bug my OR.


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## Kraimer

HiTek said:
			
		

> My utpncm posting message says BMOQ equivalency granted. Losing unit to enter the qual AIPB.
> 
> As an acting lacky, without plq,  I was under the impression that I would have to do bmoq mod 2. As far as I can tell though, AIPB is the qual for the whole BMOQ.
> 
> Am I reading this wrong? Hoping someone on here could shed some light before I go and bug my OR.



As far as I can tell, you're reading this correctly. It seems they granted you the equivalency for the whole BMOQ, possibly based off of your acting rank?

In any case, congrats on your selection.


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## dabed92

Same thing here. Losing unit to enter AIPB in … A friend of mine enter as an officer and we looked in his mprr and the BMOQ qual is indeed AIPB. Not trying to avoid St-Jean but I would not complain is this is the case!!


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## jitterbug

HiTek said:
			
		

> My utpncm posting message says BMOQ equivalency granted. Losing unit to enter the qual AIPB.
> 
> As an acting lacky, without plq,  I was under the impression that I would have to do bmoq mod 2. As far as I can tell though, AIPB is the qual for the whole BMOQ.
> 
> Am I reading this wrong? Hoping someone on here could shed some light before I go and bug my OR.



Don't worry I will let Ottawa know that there has been a huge mistake on all the messages...


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## Kraimer

jitterbug said:
			
		

> Don't worry I will let Ottawa know that there has been a huge mistake on all the messages...



Can you also tell them to hurry up with the rest of the messages? We're quickly approaching the application deadline for next year's selection already...


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## armouredguy23

Your gaining unit should sort that out pretty quickly. I was quite hopeful as well seeing as my message stated that i was granted the equivalency, however, the OR sent an email to Ottawa real quick and they confirmed it was just an error. I'll most likely be seeing you guys next summer!


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## dabed92

Got my new posting message with an amendment saying that BMOQ mod 1 was granted but mod 2 was to be completed! BTW does anyone know how long is mod 2?


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## Thermal

avn188 said:
			
		

> Got my new posting message with an amendment saying that BMOQ mod 1 was granted but mod 2 was to be completed! BTW does anyone know how long is mod 2?



It was 7 weeks long when I did it back in the summer of 2016.


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## jofafa

Any of you going to UQTR in Trois-Rivières  (Québec)?


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## armouredguy23

I'll be at Bishop's university in Sherbrooke, but trois rivières is a pretty nice place, you should like it.


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