# Continuing Education while Serving Reg force as NCM



## danthegoodman (25 Mar 2014)

Hello all,
I am currently in the final stages of my application process. 

I never got to ask the recruiter so i am asking here:
Assuming I get in, completed my training and get stationed somewhere, how does it work when you decide to go to school again (part time, evening classes, online etc), lets say for languages or some part time science classes/certificates? Do you pay for it out of your pocket or do you get some financial support? Will it be on your own time exclusively or can you get send to the military college? What if after many years of service I get Honorably Discharged for whatever reason, do I get skill training/schooling then so I can successfully join the civilian market again? 

I am just asking out of curiosity, I always wanted to join the army but I do have a very strong interest in numerous sciences and languages as well, an interest I wouldn't mind pursuing once I joined and got settled in. 

Thanks in advance,
Danny


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## Crispy Bacon (25 Mar 2014)

Too many variables here:



			
				danthegoodman said:
			
		

> how does it work when you decide to go to school again (part time, evening classes, online etc), lets say for languages or some part time science classes/certificates?



Any employment/volunteering/schooling/etc. done outside of your military role needs to be approved by your chain of command to ensure it will not interfere with operational requirements.  If you have a stable 0800-1600 gig and want to take classes from 1700-1900 two days a week, that _shouldn't _ be a problem, but your chain has the final say.



> Do you pay for it out of your pocket or do you get some financial support?



Depends. Are you Reserve or Reg Force?  Officer or NCM?



> Will it be on your own time exclusively or can you get send to the military college?



1. There is leave _available _ for academic advancement. Whether your chain grants it to you is up to them.  There is also short leave available, for example, to work a half day on Tuesdays so you can spend Tuesday morning doing school work. Again, up to them.

2. There are courses available through RMC. Again, this depends on whether you're Reserve or Reg Force and officer or NCM.



> What if after many years of service I get Honorably Discharged for whatever reason, do I get skill training/schooling then so I can successfully join the civilian market again?



1. There is no "honourable discharge" in the CAF.

2. Search for "second career assistance network" (SCAN).



> I am just asking out of curiosity, I always wanted to join the army but I do have a very strong interest in numerous sciences and languages as well, an interest I wouldn't mind pursuing once I joined and got settled in.



Why not choose a trade that can give you the education and passion you seem to be looking for?


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## kratz (25 Mar 2014)

[quote author=Crispy Bacon link]
*Snip*
2. Search for "second career assistance network" (SCAN).


Why not choose a trade that can give you the education and passion you seem to be looking for?
[/quote]

During the SCAN seminar, the staff from BPSO wished more people were asking these questions
and / or thinking about them when they enrolled in the CAF, that the OP has posted.

To make a solid trade choice within the military (25+ years), may not be the best choice for a second career (20+ years).


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## Tibbson (25 Mar 2014)

Since I've joined I have worked to obtain my Community College diploma, a Bachelors degree and I am 4 credits into my Masters.  All of them have been reimbursed because I had it approved before hand and there was money available in my education "account" within the forces.  I've had to do them all via online courses or evening classes but at the end of the day I got it done.  

It used to be that Officers got their schooling (once approved) reimbursed at 100% but as of the early 2000s the same applies to NCMs.  I believe you are entitled to $1000 a year that you can draw from to reimburse schooling.  The only restrictions are that it must be approved before hand (don't take a course then walk in with the receipt and expect to get paid back), the training you are taking must be somehow related to your current trade (you can't be a weapons tech and take accounting courses to be a CPA) and as noted, the courses and projected costs must be approved before hand.  

Of course, there is more to it then that but thats it in a nutshell.


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## danthegoodman (25 Mar 2014)

> Depends. Are you Reserve or Reg Force?  Officer or NCM?



As the title stated, NCM Regular force  :facepalm:  



> Why not choose a trade that can give you the education and passion you seem to be looking for?



Also as stated in my Original Post: The army has always been my number 1 dream career and its what I really want to do, but I also would like to learn more science related things while being a soldier. Learning/curiosity can be a hobby too you know, education isn't always a career indicator.

Other than that thank you all for the info so far. interesting stuff.

Good day to you.


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## Crispy Bacon (26 Mar 2014)

Have you looked into:

NCM SEP;

UTPNCM;

DAOD 5031-5;

DAOD 5039-7: Second Official Language Training;

Or any officer training plans that would see you commission and be sent to university (assuming you want to get into the CAF as an NCM and commission/pursue your education at a later date)?


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## Happy Guy (23 Apr 2014)

Ref: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-paid-education/index.page

I received my graduate degree using the education reimbursement program, however funding is not guaranteed and be prepared to complete your degree over a longer period of time. I did a Masters degree over a five year period instead of the usual two years full time study.  Along the way I had to deal with a posting, career courses and deployment.  If you are married with children take that into consideration too.  

Cheers


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## KerryBlue (4 Oct 2014)

I came across this thread while doing research and not wanting to start another I will post here. I am hoping to become a RegF Combat Engineer and serve a long career in the military but I also understand the importance of simply holding a undergrad degree or college diploma should I ever injure myself and be released. By the time I hope to leave I should have 12 University Credits or about 2.5 years done. 

I was wondering if some serving RegF NCM's could give me their insight when it comes to continuing their education while serving. 

1.How did you go about competing your schooling, online or night classes? Which was better for the military life?
2.How accommodating were the schools/professors when it came to deadlines and such given the nature of military life/deployments?
3.How accommodating was the military when it came to allowing you time off to write exams/essays/school work?
4.How many courses were you able to take through the year? How many courses a semester? How many semesters?
5.Does RMC offer any part time distance learning courses for serving members?

I also gather from reading that the military will pay for a certain portion of my education even as a NCM, is there a limit on how much or as many courses as you take the military will pay?


Thanks for taking the time to answer.


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## sidemount (4 Oct 2014)

1 online was easier to find courses, and was more flexible for the army lifestlye

2. Depends on the school. RMC has online distant learning classes that are very accomodating. I have both written an exam 4 weeks early and 6 weeks late with them due to military stuff.

3. Depends on the unit. Ive had both, time for exams was always np but classwork was rarely done on work time.

4. Agains depends on how busy work like and home life is.....i found 2 at a time was a max for me.

5. Yes

As of right now the CAF will pay 100% of course costs. That however will apparently be changing soon with yearly and career caps....still unknow right now.


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## chrisf (5 Oct 2014)

For anyone who's not familiar with them, marine institute (technically a branch of memorial university, but operated at a bit of an arms length) offers a number of online/distance degree programs, they're quite used to dealing with people with weird schedules, they're generally quite flexible with time lines within the semester (assignments, exams, etc) and will accept some military qualifications as prerequisites for some programs.


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## KerryBlue (5 Oct 2014)

Thanks sidemount and a Sig Op,  I'm hoping a few more people see this and share their experiences/insight.


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## shawn l (7 Oct 2014)

i have almost the same inquiry, i'm starting my bmq in January with only a grade 10 complete as a ncm crew member. I wonder, once i pass the Bmq, the QS and the dp1 is there a way to get my high school diploma and maybe go higher with any kind of military program or did i have to go (of the book) on my personal time, like on weekend or after shift 

ps: sorry for any misspelling i have or will do this ain't my first language and i don't write or speak it as often as i should do


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## sidemount (7 Oct 2014)

shawn l said:
			
		

> i have almost the same inquiry, i'm starting my bmq in January with only a grade 10 complete as a ncm crew member. I wonder, once i pass the Bmq, the QS and the dp1 is there a way to get my high school diploma and maybe go higher with any kind of military program or did i have to go (of the book) on my personal time, like on weekend or after shift
> 
> ps: sorry for any misspelling i have or will do this ain't my first language and i don't write or speak it as often as i should do





Short answer: yes

Much like taking university courses the Military will pay for you to get you GED high school equiv (through ILP and reimbursed once you finish). Most areas have an adult high school, and can take you through academic upgrading or GED. A lot of this information you will be able to get from the education councillor at your base PSO office once you are finished your courses. 

Here in Petawawa, the PSO's office has organized a program starting just after the Christmas holiday for people who want to get their GED.


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## mad dog 2020 (7 Oct 2014)

For your GED, I did it years ago while posted to Cornwallis. I found out when the annual testing was at the regional high school. Bought the GED book at Coles AKA Chapters. 
Took a weeks leave and studied that book end to end and even took the sample tests.
went on a week-end (Friday night and Saturday), {my time}wrote the 5 tests and got 90s when the results came back. So you can do it and if places like Pet are offering a prep crse. as well as sometimes local school boards do too on adult evening education 
Good Luck and after that the skys the limit.


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## shawn l (7 Oct 2014)

thanks a lot to take some of your time to answer me. Its really a good news for me that i will be able to get my diploma and maybe be able to go higher. Thanks again for answering it so fast.


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## Numpty (31 Oct 2014)

If you find yourself some time after work and want to further your education, look into these things called ILP (Individual Learning Plan). The CDA (Canada Defence Academy) offers Education Reimbursement (ER) for Reg Force members as per this instruction (CF Mil Pers Instr 17/04). But be informed of the update (Communiqué 002/14 - CDA J3/5 IT&E Program Management - Education Reimbursement Way Ahead – Update 26 Jun 2014).

4. To *qualify* for this program, members shall:
*a. be in receipt of pay and allowances* except if on Maternity Leave under QR&O 16.26 or Paternal Leave under QR&O 16.27, 
*b. have completed Basic Military Qualification (BMQ) training*, and 
*c. have an approved ILP. * 

6. *Eligible members may be reimbursed 100% of education expenses*, except for those items identified at para 3d (6) and (10) (*tutoring costs, instruments, tools – 50%*), for successfully completed courses approved through the ILP process. 

11. *Claimants shall seek reimbursement for education expenses when a course is completed.* IAW QR&O Vol III 203.05, any sum of money payable under the QR&O or CBI that is not claimed within a period of 12 months after the date on which it might have been claimed is forfeited. For the purpose of this instruction,* the 12-month period commences on the date that the course semester ends,* as defined in the institution's calendar.


Long story short, If you’re ever interested, I believe the process is as follows:
-	Research the program/courses
-	Book an apt/go see the B/WPSO to talk about your edumacation/ILP plans.
-	Complete the ILP and submit to PSO for review/acceptance.
-	Hope it is in the “interest of the CF” and gets accepted.

And do it sooner than later since the policy might change, as mentioned in previous posts.


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