# Haulin' the C9 and/or C6



## ProPatria031 (12 Aug 2007)

the other day I  put my hand up and volunteered for the C9 (because it's my baby  :rofl: ). but the problem is is sure I was able to haul the c@ck sucker around in battle school but I'm not sure if I'll be able to do it battalion. so if any of you "spartan" types  ushup: could give a few pointers on training to carry the thing it would be appreciated because I would hate to have it taken away from me for a stupid reason like personal PT.

 :cheers:


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## HItorMiss (12 Aug 2007)

Simple answer Pro Pat

Dondonald Hall is about 400m from the 3 RCR shacks (I assume you live in shacks)

Step1: Run to Gym
Step2: Lift Weights
Step3: Run back to shacks

The C9 isn't as much of a pig as the C6 and trust me you wont have much difficulty if you just do a small bit of PT on your own time. Really that's all the advice you can get. As for carrying it the sling works fine IMO but I am sure there will be Senior guys in your Coy kicking around who will pass on some pointers that worked for them.


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## ProPatria031 (12 Aug 2007)

"The C9 isn't as much of a pig as the C6"

ya i know what you mean. i was C6 #2 in battle school and I carried more weight then the #1 when you add up all the ammo, #2 and #3 barrels, cleaning kit, plus my personal weapon and ammo.

thanks a lot for the advice though HoM I'll ask one of the Jacks or sergeants at work.

 :cheers:


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## TN2IC (12 Aug 2007)

I find the C9 doesn't really bother me. Might you know I have my flak jacket on too. Also to note; I am a husky type lad. I just put it on as if I was partolling. But I am more into operating VCP's. We really don't run around that much.


Regards,
TN2IC


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## vanislerev (12 Aug 2007)

the C9 is no biggie to carry, the weight of the C6 does not bother me as much as the sheer size of it that just makes it a bit akward more than anything else... you will adapt though, dont worry, after you carry it non stop for a while your arms will adapt


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## Trooper Hale (13 Aug 2007)

Just make sure that the Minimi isnt the only gun firing. Build up the guns that the ladies love. The biceps and forearms, especially in your left arm, are the ones thats carrying the weight of the C9 when your having a wander around the bush.

I love that shit though, especially at 3 in the morning, you've got a 200round box on the thing, the NWS sitting like a lead weight on the top, 600 rounds in your webbing and 15km to cover with your pack on. :warstory:

Another thing is love is handing it over to someone else and taking their Steyr off them. After carrying the gun all day its physically impossible to take a Steyr seriously and hold it with two hands. Actually my favorite Minimi activity is giving it to someone else.

Good luck buddy, go talk to some the RCR gym junkies, i'm sure they'll sort you out. A bloke called "Animal" helped me out, i think that was his name anyway.
Have fun,


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## ProPatria031 (13 Aug 2007)

yea I know whos he is he lives downstairs from me I'll go talk to him. thanks alot i appreciate the help. especially today my sgt. made it official, Im a '9 gunner wohoooo!!!!


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## Fusaki (16 Aug 2007)

> Just make sure that the Minimi isnt the only gun firing. Build up the guns that the ladies love. The biceps and forearms, especially in your left arm, are the ones thats carrying the weight of the C9 when your having a wander around the bush.



While upper body strength is important, I disgree that its the most important aspect for a C9 gunner who wants to improve his fitness. In my opinion, the most important thing you can work on is your legs and core for stength and endurance.

Being able to shoot a C9 from the standing or unsupported kneeling is an important skill for FIBUA and really close ambushes, but for 90% of the rest of the time your ability to maximize that weapons system is dependant (among other things) on your ability to get from firing position to firing position as quickly as possible. This means that you want to be shooting your C9  either on its bipod, resting on a ledge, window sill, log, or anything else that gives you a stable platform so you can put down a high rate of accurate and lethal fire from behind some form of cover. And when you're not shooting you're either reloading or running your ass to your next firing position. *You should be moving WAY too fast to even think about shooting from any place so exposed that you don't have a solid spot to sit that gun.*

And what muscle groups get you in and out of dead ground, around big rocks, over low walls, and in and out of the prone? Its your core and legs. There will always be exceptions and you should aim to be physically well rounded, but the ability to pepper pot over uneven terrain is - in my opinion - the mark of a strong C9 gunner.


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## ProPatria031 (17 Aug 2007)

Your addvices are awesome guys keep this stuff coming. I'm also sharing this info with the rest of my Coy. ushup:

 :cheers:


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## footsoldier32 (21 Aug 2007)

Ok guys, here goes nothing.  I am one of those officer types, but I have carried both the C6 and C9 on several exercises before I came to Bn and the Sgt's and WO's wouldn't let me have any more fun.  Having had a Pl full of guys just aching to carry the C6 instead of the C9A1 (for obvious reasons vs the A2), we carried 4 dismounted C6's on several occasions.  The guys carried them well even with 6 belts for each gun...ammo was just shared around the Sect.

As to suggestions on how to be prepared to carry the thing, it has already been touched on in some of the earlier responses, keep working out.  My suggestion for you would be to take every chance that you get to carry it in training and when you are carrying it, DO NOT use the sling!  Carry it with you hand on the pistol grip at all times and keep it at your chest ready for employment.  Too many times have I seen guys marching with the thing slung and their hands resting on the top.  Train like you fight.  If you do that and keep up the upper body workouts, you will be able to do it.  Remember, carrying it won't be the difficult part, hitting what you are aiming at has always been the show stopper for any soldiers that I have seen.  You never get enough time on the wpn.


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## 3rd Herd (21 Aug 2007)

footsoldier32 said:
			
		

> Ok guys, here goes nothing.  I am one of those officer types, but I have carried both the C6 and C9 on several exercises before I came to Bn and the Sgt's and WO's wouldn't let me have any more fun.



A differnt thought on their reasoning. Those of us who have had/do have the pleasure of carrying around various pieces of heavy "kit" are easly identified by the enemy as being GRUNTS, and therefore not worthy of being shot first. It is simply a matter of self preservation, Sir.  ;D


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## DirtyDog (21 Aug 2007)

Is there a c9 sling in the BFG Contractor pack or should I go with something like the Vickers sling?  Apparently, for the time being anyway, I'll be on a c9 as well.


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## footsoldier32 (21 Aug 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Is there a c9 sling in the BFG Contractor pack or should I go with something like the Vickers sling?  Apparently, for the time being anyway, I'll be on a c9 as well.



Dirty Dog, all of the kit questions always make me laugh (and not at you).  Most guys out there are kit hogs (myself included) and we tend to think that the more the better.  What works for me may not work for you and so on.  I know a lot of guys who went out and spent a huge pile of cash on kit for TF 3-06 and many of them went back to issued kit.  Somethings work great for the dismounted stuff, but not for the Mech and vice versa, so the difficult thing is finding something that will work for most applications and is easily adaptable to the unexpected. Many of my soldiers started off with such things as leg holsters for everything under the sun, but when we started fighting, the only ones who kept theirs were the M203 Gnrs and a few TCCC soldiers with their FA pouch.  The vickers type sling is a pretty good sling and it was pretty good when I was climbing over walls and up ladders.  My suggestion is to find a nice double point sling that is made of thick and robust material that won't bunch up.  It has to be easily adjustable. BFG makes a nice one for the M60/C6/C9.  The biggest issue that I have ever seen with LMG/HMG slings is the way that after lots of use, the material crimps up.  Just remember, the sling is only there to steady the weapon, but don't get too reliant on it.  It will get hung up at the wrong time (it brings to mind the soldier who shot himself in the nuts because his sling caught on his veh when he was dismounting). True story for another time.


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## DirtyDog (22 Aug 2007)

footsoldier32 said:
			
		

> Dirty Dog, all of the kit questions always make me laugh (and not at you).  Most guys out there are kit hogs (myself included) and we tend to think that the more the better.  What works for me may not work for you and so on.  I know a lot of guys who went out and spent a huge pile of cash on kit for TF 3-06 and many of them went back to issued kit.  Somethings work great for the dismounted stuff, but not for the Mech and vice versa, so the difficult thing is finding something that will work for most applications and is easily adaptable to the unexpected. Many of my soldiers started off with such things as leg holsters for everything under the sun, but when we started fighting, the only ones who kept theirs were the M203 Gnrs and a few TCCC soldiers with their FA pouch.  The vickers type sling is a pretty good sling and it was pretty good when I was climbing over walls and up ladders.  My suggestion is to find a nice double point sling that is made of thick and robust material that won't bunch up.  It has to be easily adjustable. BFG makes a nice one for the M60/C6/C9.  The biggest issue that I have ever seen with LMG/HMG slings is the way that after lots of use, the material crimps up.  Just remember, the sling is only there to steady the weapon, but don't get too reliant on it.  It will get hung up at the wrong time (it brings to mind the soldier who shot himself in the nuts because his sling caught on his veh when he was dismounting). True story for another time.



Fortunately, my budget keeps me from being the kti slut I want to be.  There are definte things I have in mind however (sling, chest rig/lbv of some sort, helmet pad kit, desert boots, rifle optic (moot if I stay on the C9)).  Anyway, I look up BFGs sling for the c9.  Do you know the exact name?  I've heard good things in the past about the Vickers, that's why I asked.

Carrying weight on a leg is something I would want to avoid as much as possible and have no plans on a leg holster anytime soon.  I'm curious as to what issue kit guys went back to from gucci stuff?  In my limited experience, and from what I've gathered around her, a lot of the issue kit leaves a lot to be desired and a lot of room for improvement.  I do understand what you mean about different needs and applications however.

Thanks for the advice.


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## geo (22 Aug 2007)

problem with storebought gucci kit... if it gets busted, you're SOL.  You have to invest more $$$ to buy something that is just as likely to bust once again .. and again 

some issue kit leaves things to be desired.  No argument there.  But, it's issued, it's available in quantities and everyone around you knows how to work it.


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## HItorMiss (22 Aug 2007)

Dirty Dog


I did not see a single person go back to issue kit by choice. I did see some go back briefly out of necessity or because what they had bought was not what they wanted and were waiting for something new to arrive but that is it. I can honestly say there is not a piece of kit that is issued I would not ditch in a heart beat for the stuff I can pick up myself. It might b plentiful but that is all it has going for it. I would rather pay $$$ for stuff I use then be forced to use free stuff that is crap IMO.

I too have heard great things about the vickers slings. One of the best people on this site for slings is Wonderbread he has had more then one and is generally pretty knowledgeable about kit. try PMing him.


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## footsoldier32 (22 Aug 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Fortunately, my budget keeps me from being the Kit slut I want to be.  There are definite things I have in mind however (sling, chest rig/lbv of some sort, helmet pad kit, desert boots, rifle optic (moot if I stay on the C9)).  Anyway, I look up BFGs sling for the c9.  Do you know the exact name?  I've heard good things in the past about the Vickers, that's why I asked.
> 
> Carrying weight on a leg is something I would want to avoid as much as possible and have no plans on a leg holster anytime soon.  I'm curious as to what issue kit guys went back to from gucci stuff?  In my limited experience, and from what I've gathered around her, a lot of the issue kit leaves a lot to be desired and a lot of room for improvement.  I do understand what you mean about different needs and applications however.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.



Ok, so budget issues will limit you.  That is good.  My suggestion is take the list that you have and try and talk to some of the guys that you may know from the other units that were on 3-06.  See if the have, a: kit you can buy at a reduce cost that they used or b: at least try it on and see what it is like.  The real big issue that may affect you back here in Canada with respect to kit is having the CofC allow you to wear it.  While we are RCR and many other Inf organisations like to think that we are spit and polish all of the time, this is not true.  Generally, we want everyone to look like a professional army with kit that is relatively robust, easily replaceable (it will break at some point and there is nothing worse than trying to work in the new issue desert boots over there) and generally good quality.  Too many younger soldiers will buy something for the LCF (Look Cool Factor) and it falls apart quickly.  So to deal with that, we set restrictions.  I am a huge fan of personal boots, modifyable TV's and slings.

Ref your question on on gucci kit, there were a lot of guys who bought the warlord (HSGI Warlord V-3) that is sold on "One Shot Tactical" but is pretty pricey $250ish.  For you C9 Gnr's it is pretty good as you can easily adjust it to fit more C9 ammo pouches and still carry first aid and water.  Your choice, but most guys actually went back to issue vest as it was pretty hard on the back carrying that extra weight on your chest.  Not to mention your profile in the prone is much higher.  Again, if you can make it work and carry more ammo without thundering in, then more power to you.  Again, see if you can try one on and buy it just before you head over as you may not be able to wear it...just in case (I would really be surprised to see you wearing it in the trg area here in Canada.  A lot of guys went back to the Elcan sight as it can more magnification.  I stuck with my EOtech because I was always too busy as  a Pl Comd to be shooting and it was great for close in work hands down.  If you have the C9, be careful, some inexperienced guys tried using iron sights on the damn things until I and my Sgt's sorted that you.  It's and area weapon, make her sing and the rest of the boys will support you.  ACOG is really the way to go with a laser red dot thingy on top are pretty top notch, but you will shell out at least $1000 for it unless you get lucky.  If it is weight, then just go with an iron sight (buy one) and become damn proficient on it.  I had a couple of soldiers that went that route with the M203/C7 combo and they did just fine in firefights.  It is hard for me to tell you which sling to go with for the C9 as I haven't carried one for real, but my suggestions would be the BFG Two Point Sling for M60/C6 / C9 from One Shot Tactical or maybe the TAG CQC Double Hook Sling (cheap but you could try it out) both are on http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=oneshot&Category_Code=SL-BFG.  Again, some guys bought some slings that fell apart, so buy it early and trial it out as soon as you can.

Now onto boots and helmet things...SWAT and Oregon Aero Bliss Kit.  You can buy SWATS at Valley Workwear (just don't leave it till too late as they will get back logged quickly with all of the guys rushing out to buy).  The Brits sell a nice boot in KAF that is German made and seemed pretty good, so check out the Brit store over there.  As to the helmet issue, buy the Oregon Aero Bliss Kit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mZUHvZRnt8)...anywhere from 150-200 dollars and you should be able to pick it up here in town.

Anything else, don't hesitate to ask and I am sure that there will be other guys out there who may disagree on things, so try stuff and see what works for you.


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## HItorMiss (22 Aug 2007)

Big Fan of Converse Desert boot's myself, very very robost but also light weight. And yes I did say Converse LMAO


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## footsoldier32 (22 Aug 2007)

HitorMiss, don't laugh too hard...I know a couple of guys who swear by the Converse.


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## HItorMiss (22 Aug 2007)

Best Boots I have ever worn, And now I got a chit for em cause they make them in back as well. 

http://www.lapolicegear.com/comefo.html?gclid=CKSnuMiEio4CFQPrYgod0F_XEA

Got both my pairs here.



EDIT: Added link


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## DirtyDog (22 Aug 2007)

footsoldier32 said:
			
		

> Ok, so budget issues will limit you.  That is good.  My suggestion is take the list that you have and try and talk to some of the guys that you may know from the other units that were on 3-06.  See if the have, a: kit you can buy at a reduce cost that they used or b: at least try it on and see what it is like.  The real big issue that may affect you back here in Canada with respect to kit is having the CofC allow you to wear it.  While we are RCR and many other Inf organisations like to think that we are spit and polish all of the time, this is not true.  Generally, we want everyone to look like a professional army with kit that is relatively robust, easily replaceable (it will break at some point and there is nothing worse than trying to work in the new issue desert boots over there) and generally good quality.  Too many younger soldiers will buy something for the LCF (Look Cool Factor) and it falls apart quickly.  So to deal with that, we set restrictions.  I am a huge fan of personal boots, modifyable TV's and slings.
> 
> Ref your question on on gucci kit, there were a lot of guys who bought the warlord (HSGI Warlord V-3) that is sold on "One Shot Tactical" but is pretty pricey $250ish.  For you C9 Gnr's it is pretty good as you can easily adjust it to fit more C9 ammo pouches and still carry first aid and water.  Your choice, but most guys actually went back to issue vest as it was pretty hard on the back carrying that extra weight on your chest.  Not to mention your profile in the prone is much higher.  Again, if you can make it work and carry more ammo without thundering in, then more power to you.  Again, see if you can try one on and buy it just before you head over as you may not be able to wear it...just in case (I would really be surprised to see you wearing it in the trg area here in Canada.  A lot of guys went back to the Elcan sight as it can more magnification.  I stuck with my EOtech because I was always too busy as  a Pl Comd to be shooting and it was great for close in work hands down.  If you have the C9, be careful, some inexperienced guys tried using iron sights on the damn things until I and my Sgt's sorted that you.  It's and area weapon, make her sing and the rest of the boys will support you.  ACOG is really the way to go with a laser red dot thingy on top are pretty top notch, but you will shell out at least $1000 for it unless you get lucky.  If it is weight, then just go with an iron sight (buy one) and become damn proficient on it.  I had a couple of soldiers that went that route with the M203/C7 combo and they did just fine in firefights.  It is hard for me to tell you which sling to go with for the C9 as I haven't carried one for real, but my suggestions would be the BFG Two Point Sling for M60/C6 / C9 from One Shot Tactical or maybe the TAG CQC Double Hook Sling (cheap but you could try it out) both are on http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=oneshot&Category_Code=SL-BFG.  Again, some guys bought some slings that fell apart, so buy it early and trial it out as soon as you can.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, I've looked around here quite a bit and have starting prodding some of the guys from my Pl, almost all of whom were on 3-06 (at the least).  I'm always on the lookout for used kit, but at the same time 8-08 is a long ways away and I don't know what role (if any for sure yet) I will be filling.  I'm aware of CoC restrictions on kit here in Canada, but have little idea as to what is acceptable.  I'm going to start asking around to see whats allowable, especially for work up training.  Coming in, I had heard the spit and polish horror stories of the RCR but have been releived at some of the common sense relaxation of some of the rules that I have seen.  I was especially suprised to see the variety of non-issue boots in garrison.  Speaking of boots, I know some of the guys  have bought Swats from Full Spectrum Gear down the road but had to order in black pairs.  Glad to hear they are sold at Valley Work Wear as well.  A few of the guys in my Pl had said they were quite happy with the American issue boots they bought in KAF but I would probably won't to try something out prior to going over.  I've seen all the Converse ads and must say I'm a little suprised to hear they are a decent boot.

As far as a tv or chest rig, I've read up on quite a few of them but will start making considerations when the time comes that I know for sure whether I'll be carrying a C9 or rifle.  A point you brought up, about a higher profile during prone point, is something I hadn't considered before.  The same goes for an optic.  I have a few in mind for a rifle but would likely stick with the Elcan for a C9 unless I felt i could justify $1K for an ACOG.

I had considered the Oregon Aero BLSS Kit, but I'm a like leary on a 4 point system (ie. drilling my issue helmet).  What are you thoughts on that?  Who sells the BLSS kit here in town?   I was just going to order the Sydex pad kit from CP Gear.

Anyway, thanks again for the help and suggestions.  My one regret is that I've turned this into yet another kit thread (not my intention).....


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## footsoldier32 (22 Aug 2007)

Just bear in mind that those are just a few issues that I saw when I was over there as part of my tour 3-06.  Notice how I said a lot of "I".  Keep abreast of the way things are going over there as best that you can, stay realistic and understand that you may or may not be doing the same kind of fighting that we were.  There were lots of obstacles and vegetation over there and the prone was not an option other than for my "marksmen" that I employed.

As to the Bliss Kit...I stayed with the 3 point hitch and it never fell apart on me.  There is a guy around here that sells it.  I think his name was Smith...I'll look into it for you.  And look into investing into a set of ESS Profile NVG goggles (I had a pair stolen from me they were that good).  The issued BEW work...seen it myself, they're just not all that comfortable all of the time.  Again, wait for the CofC, but look into ESS BEW or even nice Oakley ballistic glasses...I am looking into placing an order someday if I can get enough guys on line.  They offer a military discount.

I'll talk to some of my soldiers and see if any of them used a sight on their C9's.  I am thinking no, but it will be your preference.  It takes off a lot of weight and if you get the time to become proficient with it, you really don't need it (my opinion).

Anyway, you sound like you are on the right track...keep asking guys with experience and take it slow...no plan ever survives H-hour and things will change right up until the day you leave.

Pro Patria


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## HItorMiss (22 Aug 2007)

Jeff Smith with SmithTac I believe is who you are refering to there Footy and I believe he does sell the Bliss kit. Oh and this may sound odd but I know must of the Recce guys went and got Web gear for the C9 guys and even the rifleman too. Proper web gear not our 82 pattern plastic gromet stuff.


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## Trooper Hale (22 Aug 2007)

For me personally, in a dismounted role, when carrying the minimi(C9) or the Mag58(C6), its my webbing belt all the way. I've got 6 minimi pouches on it, for carrying the minimi, the front two will hold (give or take) 300 each (less for the 58 because of the size obviously), plus the 200round box on the gun. The side two hold your water bottles or more ammo if you've a camel back on and the rear two will hold my cleaning kit plus odds & sods in one and my rations in the other. 
That weight is far easier to carry, its on your shoulders and your waist, and its not doing your back in as badly as it would with a chest rig on.
I wouldnt ever want to carry the gun wearing chest gear, the large room and size of the pouches you can put on a belt make it a lot easier to carry a combat load. If you've got a rifle its different, but like HoM said, you'll find gunners who'll wear webbing belts instead of chest rigs and it works great.


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## Farmboy (26 Aug 2007)

> but my suggestions would be the BFG Two Point Sling for M60/C6 / C9 from One Shot Tactical or maybe the TAG CQC Double Hook Sling (cheap but you could try it out) both are on http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=oneshot&Category_Code=SL-BFG.  Again, some guys bought some slings that fell apart, so buy it early and trial it out as soon as you can.



 Which fell apart?  BFG, TAG or a different brand?  If it was the BFG or TAG, I will replace them. 

 Also if you want to take a look at the C6/C9 sling from BFG, just let Amanda know at Full Spectrum Gear and I can send them up in her next order.


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## MikeL (26 Aug 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> I had considered the Oregon Aero BLSS Kit, but I'm a like leary on a 4 point system (ie. drilling my issue helmet).  What are you thoughts on that?  Who sells the BLSS kit here in town?   I was just going to order the Sydex pad kit from CP Gear.



Theres no need to drill the 4th hole.  I've had my BLSS kit installed in my issue helmet for about 6 months now an I've had no problems with only having it secured through the 3 holes on the helmet. Only problem I had with the kit was that the screws in the issue helmet weren't long enough, etc to secure the BLSS helmet band.. I haven't gotten around to getting longer screws or anything yet so I just got it secured by zap straps(never had 'em snap or anything, least not yet)

I ordered my BLSS kit from oneshottactical.com


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## footsoldier32 (26 Aug 2007)

Farmboy said:
			
		

> Which fell apart?  BFG, TAG or a different brand?  If it was the BFG or TAG, I will replace them.
> 
> Also if you want to take a look at the C6/C9 sling from BFG, just let Amanda know at Full Spectrum Gear and I can send them up in her next order.



None of the ones that I have heard of guys buying from one shot tactical.  But that is awesome to know that you will replace them.  My suggestion was that if he gets it now, if it is a good sling, it won't fall apart and he will have it for the tour.

As to the Bliss Kit, again, I have it hooked up by 3 bolts as well...zap straps and gun tape all went into making sure that the other minor deficiencies were taken care of.  Good luck.


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