# Non-Binery in the forces



## Ash1994 (27 May 2016)

Hey there! So I have been picked to go to my part 2 medical and my interview . As one you expect I am super excited about starting my career. There is one thing on my mind though. You see I am non binery. It's kinda like being transgender, except you are not actually going full out on transitioning. Basically I was born a male, my ID says male however I am super feminine (bright clothing, long hair,make up enthusiast and on a mild dose of hormones). I am on HRT only because I felt super uncomfortable with a body full of testosterone and need to have one of the two primary gender hormones to avoid unpleasant things like osteoporosis. I have a host of great references through jobs and landlords (I often get promoted very fast and have a great track record of keeping agreements and paying rent). I aced my aptitude and got options well above what I applied for aswell. I am also far from a coward (kinda thing you pick up when others think you are weak because you have a feminine side... how wrong they are). With all these things I think I am a great fit for the CAF. However, I know military life can be much different then civilian life. My question is during basic I know I will be around males the entire time and be treated as such, but how ': masculine''  is this environment? For example how low does your hair have to go? Ect. Thanks for any advice and insight you may have . Also to those here who don't like the Transgender/Non-Binery life please don't bother writing me a post of how I am x,y and z. I don't care what you think.


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## mariomike (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> Also to those here who don't like the Transgender/Non-Binery life please don't bother writing me a post of how I am x,y and z.



Is this a discussion you may find of interest?

Transgender in the CF (merged) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/79867.325
14 pages.


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## Ash1994 (27 May 2016)

Thanks! I saw that however, I'm not too sure it's the exact same. My question is more on the line of how feminine can I still be plus how short does my hair need to be?


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## mariomike (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> Thanks! I saw that however, I'm not too sure it's the exact same.



You are welcome. I'm not too sure of anything anymore.  



			
				Ash1994 said:
			
		

> For example how low does your hair have to go?





			
				Ash1994 said:
			
		

> My question is more on the line of how feminine can I still be plus how short does my hair need to be?



"...my ID says male..."

There's a lot of female and male hair discussions on here.   

eg: Is it time for gendered hair standards to go?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/108861.100.html
5 pages.

And _many_  more!  
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+hair&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=A5pIV72CFImN8QeB9KyYDw&gws_rd=ssl


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## Ash1994 (27 May 2016)

Cool! Thanks for the links


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## mariomike (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> I am also far from a coward (kinda thing you pick up when others think you are weak because you have a feminine side... how wrong they are).



He joined the US Marine Corps in 1943 World War II and was, by all accounts, an exemplary soldier, wounded in ferocious combat in the Pacific theater in WW II. Conversely, he claimed to have been wearing a bra and panties under his uniform during a military landing.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000248/bio







			
				Ash1994 said:
			
		

> Cool! Thanks for the links



You are welcome. Good luck!


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## Jarnhamar (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> bright clothing, long hair,make up enthusiast


Soldiers on leave wear all kinds of flamboyantly bright clothes. French soldiers while doing PT.
Soldiers will often try and keep their hair as long as possible, like surfer dudes. it makes them feel empowered to push the envelope.
You'll be happy to know you'll get to apply liberal doses of green brown and black makeup during times of training.



> My question is during basic I know I will be around males the entire time and be treated as such, but how ': masculine''  is this environment? For example how low does your hair have to go?


I'm pretty sure you can make an educated guess. You'll be around a bunch of horny 18 year old guys who'll think they need to prove themselves by talking tougher than the next guy. Pictures of dicks, fake sex stories and claims about taking on ISIS by themselves.  If you're feminine you're going to stand out and probably be a target by some of them the same you would in any male dominated environment. You can ignore it, use karate on them or snap your fingers and have Op Honour storm troopers descend on them.



> Also to those here who don't like the Transgender/Non-Binery life please don't bother writing me a post of how I am x,y and z. I don't care what you think.


Z-Snap!

Also you've stated you're feminine but I thought Non-binary meant you identify as neither masculine or feminine‍. Kinda confusing.


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## mariomike (27 May 2016)

For reference,

Nonbinary gender
http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Main_Page


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## Eye In The Sky (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> Thanks! I saw that however, I'm not too sure it's the exact same. My question is more on the line of how feminine can I still be plus how short does my hair need to be?





			
				Ash1994 said:
			
		

> I was born a male, my ID says male



No makeup on duty, haircut standard as per males in the CF Dress Instructions.

During BMQ, you can expect the same haircut as all male recruit.  Think #1 on the sides and back, not much more on top.  



> I aced my aptitude and got options well above what I applied for as well. I am also far from a coward (kinda thing you pick up when others think you are weak because you have a feminine side... how wrong they are). With all these things I think I am a great fit for the CAF.



That determination will be more appropriately made by your staff on BMQ if you get there.



> Also to those here who don't like the Transgender/Non-Binery life please don't bother writing me a post of how I am x,y and z. I don't care what you think.



Saying things like that is going to work negatively against you.  People might take it as an indication of the _I'm A Special Snowflake _syndrome rampant in todays generation.  It's readily accepted in todays society it seems, but not so much in the military.  Especially BMQ.  That's where you get to prove you've got what it takes, or not.  Words and CFAT scores don't usually means SFA, what counts is where the rubber meats the road;  how much of a team player you REALLY are when the SHTF, when you are tired and cold and hungry.

That kind of stuff.  THAT will only present itself when you are tired, cold and hungry and someone is screaming at you to ruck up/dig in/etc.


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## dapaterson (27 May 2016)

Perhaps I'd take you more seriously if you knew how to spell.

The word is BINARY - "relating to, composed of, or involving two things "


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## Eye In The Sky (27 May 2016)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> You'll be happy to know you'll get to apply liberal doses of green brown and black makeup during times of training.



 :rofl:


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## Ash1994 (27 May 2016)

Thanks for the stories and advice . I'm not afraid of standing out as opposed to being forced to be more masculine due to rules of the basic training ( hair length, policy of foundation, ect). It will be annoying to listen to these men brag about there toughness as I can hunch some will just be puffing their chest, the sexual talk as I am far from a sexual person and such but I have tackled worse then that haha. Non binery is usually someone who identifys as neither, tho how I have understood it could be someone who also identifys as both. I am kinda neither, I consider myself more of  a woman then a man, yet have (kinda reluctantly) just kinda accepted the male body I have. That is why I say I am NB . I am also too rather new to the trans identity spectrum which includes NB people


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## Ash1994 (27 May 2016)

Dapaterson read between the lines. Either be helpful or don't waste my time making me read a critique


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## dapaterson (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> Dapaterson read between the lines. Either be helpful or don't waste my time making me read a critique



If you don't like being critiqued for failing to pay attention to important details, I'd suggest the CAF may not be a good fit for you.


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## Jarnhamar (27 May 2016)

What trade are you applying to Ash1994?


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## Ash1994 (27 May 2016)

You mean like how dapaterson should actually be spelt Dapaterson or DaPaterson?? As I said quit wasting my time. And I m applying for meteorologist


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## hugh19 (27 May 2016)

With an attitude like that, you may want to reconsider your career choice. You will be critiqued constantly throughout a military career. If you can't handle it, please reconsider.


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## Eye In The Sky (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> And I m applying for meteorologist



Impossible.  There are no meteorologists in the CAF.


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## Lumber (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> Dapaterson read between the lines. Either be helpful or don't waste my time making me read a critique



If you don't like being critique on attention to detail, such as with spelling and grammar, then you are going to have a real tough time on BMQ, and you certainly joined the wrong forum site. The mods and community both don't allow anyone to get away with poor spelling and grammar. Attitude aside, for such a sensitive subject about which its community wishes others to take more seriously, I am legitimately surprised that you spelled "binary" wrong in the first place, spelt it wrong even after having it pointed out, and then rebuffed someone who corrected you. You will be corrected A LOT in the CAF, get ready for it.

That all aside, in answer to your initial post, the CAF most definitely leans toward the binary concept of the masculine gender, and it's even worse on basic trg, for all the reasons that Jarnhamar listed above. However, we've come  a long way in just a few short years, and harassment and discrimination are just not tolerated any more. You might have a few bad apples who legitimately don't like that a "male" is acting is acting/dressing against what their preconceived notion of how a man should dress and behave, but for the most part, if you show yourself to be a team player who trys hard and cares about your fellow course mates, then most of the people should respect you and treat you as such.


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## hugh19 (27 May 2016)

Yes but we have Meteorologist technicians


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## Ash1994 (27 May 2016)

I have no issue being critiqued actually. My issue is if he, or you for that matter can write a post to criticize something that was in my auto correct oddly enough (on mobile) you guys could also write something useful relating to what I had asked. Plain and simple. I can take a lot from my boss/superiors but you both are neither as of this moment. So I repeat either say something useful like Mario Mike or Jarnhamar or please don't waste my time .


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## George Wallace (27 May 2016)

Ash1994 said:
			
		

> You mean like how dapaterson should actually be spelt Dapaterson or DaPaterson?? As I said quit wasting my time. And I m applying for meteorologist



Seriously?  You don't even know what you are; yet you claim that a person's "Screen Name" is wrong.  You are really wasting our time, with your sense of entitlement.  As another poster, or two, mentioned: perhaps this is NOT a good CAREER CHOICE for you.  You are applying to enter a predominantly "TESTOSTERONE BASED ENVIRONMENT" that has "STRICK RULES", neither of which you seem to want to be involved with, nor follow.

Please adjust your attitude here on this site, and more importantly towards your application.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 May 2016)

And don't come here making another account to ask pretty much the same questions looking for the answer you wish.

Ash1994 is also  D33 and as such 'they' are both banned.
Bruce
army.ca staff


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## Eye In The Sky (27 May 2016)

sledge said:
			
		

> Yes but we have Meteorologist technicians



Actually, no.  We have Meteorological Technicians.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 May 2016)

And I see nothing worth keeping this thread open for.


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