# Re: Canadian Forces : The US Perspective



## Sf2 (30 Jul 2005)

I think the media's portrayal has a lot to do on the public's opinion, which stems from how the Gov't/Higher ups run the show.

I hate to admit it, but compared to say, USA, we're in a Care Bear army.  Politically correct and afraid to admit and show to the public what our grass roots role is - lethal, armed response.  What does that mean?  The public has little or no pride for their armed forces.

I just spent a week on exercise in the USA- they're on the opposite end of the spectrum.  They say what they say, and do what they do, and the public knows about it, because they aren't hiding their grass roots.  There's a HUGE sign at the main gate that says - "Pardon the noise, its the Sound of Freedom".   Flying down a beach, EVERYONE is waving....EVERYONE.

What do we get when we fly too close to a chicken farm or a cottage, or a fisherman on a lake IN THE TRAINING AREA?  A noise complaint, a middle finger, and a claim to the crown.

Walking downtown in a US city after having landed there, trying to find a place for supper, no less than 4 strangers came up to us and shook our hands.  One customer at the restaurant bought us all a round of beers.  Sitting in the taxi cab going back to the airport, no less than 4-5 vehicles honking their horns, giving us thumbs up.  You think you'd ever get that in Canada?


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## Lost_Warrior (30 Jul 2005)

Did they know you were in the Canadian army?

I talked to a few people while I was on ex down in the US, and all I got was "Canadian army, easiest job in the country huh?"  or..  "You guys suck"


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## Lost_Warrior (30 Jul 2005)

Or my personal favorite, "our national guard can kick the entire canadian army's a$$"


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Jul 2005)

Lost Warrior,

Don't even try to stir up shit. You've just become a blip on the radar screen.

Many, many of us here have been down there for Ex and other reasons, so many more times than you, it's uncountable. I am over there on a constant basis, and have never once, in all those years ever heard Joe Average American speak disrespectful of Canada and especially our Forces. So knock off the crap. You've been warned.


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## Lost_Warrior (30 Jul 2005)

I wasn't trying to stir anything up.  Stop trying to find something where there's nothing.  I have simply stated my experience.  If you don't like it, just click that little "x" at the top right of your browser...


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## Fishbone Jones (30 Jul 2005)

Your "experience" is so far fetched as to be unbelievable. I can't disprove it, but it would be easier than you trying to prove it. Anyway, you've stated your unsubstantiated experience, and I call Bullshit. If you don't like it, click the little X up there in the corner.


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## Lost_Warrior (31 Jul 2005)

Well, you have the right to call bull$hit.  This is after all...a free country.

But allow me to give some background to my comments.

During a week long reserve exercise, Kodiak Strike down at Camp Blanding Florida, we had a day off at the end, where me and some buddies went down to Daytona Beach.

While I was in a little souvenir shop buying something for my girlfriend, one of the clerks looks at me and my friends and says "you guys in the military?" (I guess my "Canadian Army" shirt and my buddies nuke bag gave it away) so I say yea, we're with the Canadian army.  That's where he says "Canadian army, easiest job in the country huh?"  ...to which I replied, "not exactly"     I paid for my things and left.

Later that day, we went down to the beach along Atlantic ave, and saw another guy talking with some Americans.  One of the Americans happened to be with the New York National Guard.  The guy was a nice guy.  He knew his stuff.  He was familiar with the Canadian army and it's size.  He said USNG is better equipped and bigger than the entire Canadian army and could probably kick our a$$.    I wasn't looking for a confrontation so I pretty much left it at that.

The 3rd and final remark came at the bar called Froggies.  Me and some buddies were there kicking back a few, and were talking with some biker guy.  He asked if we were really in the Canadian army.  My friend said yes, to which he laughed and said "you guys suck, why aren't you in Iraq?"   To which my buddy replied, "because we're in Afghanistan instead"

You can call it whatever you want.  The next time I come here I'll be sure to have some "happy fuzzy lovey dovey" stories for you...  :


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## pbi (31 Jul 2005)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> Did they know you were in the Canadian army?
> 
> I talked to a few people while I was on ex down in the US, and all I got was "Canadian army, easiest job in the country huh?"   or..   "You guys suck"



Lost Warrior: my experiences with US forces (over a fair stretch of time) are completely different. On various courses or exercises (in both Canada and the US), I have found that attitudes of US military towards us vary from benign ignorance to out and out respect. I served in Afghanistan from Aug 04 to Feb 05 as a liaison officer in a major US joint operational HQ, working daily side-by-side with US personnel from MGen down, from all Armed Forces and various civil agencies such as DIA, etc. Because of our non-involvement in Iraq, I went with some apprehension, expecting a hard relationship. The total opposite was true, almost without exception. Most outstandingly, the DComd of the force, an Army BGen, told me that they felt a huge respect for Gen Hillier when he was Comd ISAF V, and that "...when Gen Hillier and the Canadians were running ISAF, at least we knew it had a backbone..."

So, I can 't share your assessment of the US attitude.I guess it depends on who you talk to.  Nor do I share your universally bad assessment of Canadian attitudes towards us. I have had the opportunity to observe the Canadian public's (and the media's...) reaction to us first hand since 1974 when I joined, and we are so far ahead now compared to then that it is like a different country. I could never, never imagine a CDS speaking as freely as Gen Hillier regularly does, in the years past. It just didn't happen. The last guy like that was Gen Dextraze, who had WWII infantry combat experience.

Cheers.


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## pbi (31 Jul 2005)

> But allow me to give some background to my comments.



Three people, at least one of whom is a fairly marginal example? (Biker?) Not much of a statistical basis for such a sweeping condemnation, is it? You might just as well have asked the biker (or any of the others...) why THEY weren't in Iraq. The US Army is having serious recruiting problems: IIRC its total strength now represents considerably less than one percent of the population. It seems that some Americans enjoy talking tough, but aren't actually too keen on picking up a rifle and doing anything about it.

When I attended the USMC Command and Staff College (97-98), one of the biggest complaints from the US officers was a lack of understanding and support from their own people. I laughed, but they were serious.

Cheers.


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## Lost_Warrior (31 Jul 2005)

> Three people, at least one of whom is a fairly marginal example? (Biker?) Not much of a statistical basis for such a sweeping condemnation, is it?


  

At what point did I give any sort of "sweeping condemnation"?   All I did was give my own experience.  I didn't know that was a bad thing.  I'll keep it to myself until I have some fluffy bunny stories to share..  :



> Lost Warrior: my experiences with US forces (over a fair stretch of time) are completely different.



I have no doubt in my mind.  I heard a story on the exercise about 2 field artilery meeting up with some US airborn guys during the Ex and getting along quite well. (theres someone on this board who can confirm that.  He's in the 2FLD regiment and was on the same Ex)    I hear stories of US soldiers and people having respect for Canadian troops all the time.

Never once did I say the situation was any different because of my experience.  I simply said what me and some friends had to deal with.  No big ussie.  Im sure in my career as a soldier I will run into many different people who have many different opinions on me and my country.


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## Lost_Warrior (31 Jul 2005)

> When I attended the USMC Command and Staff College (97-98), one of the biggest complaints from the US officers was a lack of understanding and support from their own people. I laughed, but they were serious.



Wow...if only they knew...


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## pbi (31 Jul 2005)

> I'll keep it to myself until I have some fluffy bunny stories to share..




Nobody really wants that, and if that's all we talked about here this site would have folded ages ago. Just take the criticism to heart and present your stuff in a credible way.


Cheers.


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## Lost_Warrior (31 Jul 2005)

I don't know how much more "credible" you want it to be.  It's human nature not to believe everything you read on a message board.  I have no issue with that.  If someone wants to read it and call bull, then be my guest.  I won't lose sleep over it.

Here's another story for you.  Before I joined the army, I was out with some friends at a bar (I live in Montreal) called Peel Pub.  We met some Marines who were on vacation there.   At the time, one of my buddies was in the military (an engineer regiment).  We all had a great night.  Definately a great bunch of guys.


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## Armymedic (31 Jul 2005)

Even with the Guy from NY, who "knew his stuff", your basing your thoughts of the US populations on what 3 people say...

I have worked with 2 contingents of USNG here in Afghanistan (Indiana and Florida), I can safely say they would disagree with those comments.


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## Lost_Warrior (31 Jul 2005)

> Even with the Guy from NY, who "knew his stuff", your basing your thoughts of the US populations on what 3 people say...




No im not.   Never once did I regard my experience to the "the entire US population".  Please read my response again.  This time don't skip parts.


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## Ex-Dragoon (31 Jul 2005)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> Did they know you were in the Canadian army?
> 
> I talked to a few people while I was on ex down in the US, and all I got was "Canadian army, easiest job in the country huh?"   or..   "You guys suck"



Hmm you stated you talked to a few people and from your posts all you got were slams and criticisms about the CF how else do you expect people to react to your posts?  :


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## Lost_Warrior (31 Jul 2005)

I understand the first time when it was assumed I was talking about the whole population.  But after I said over and over, that's not how I think, only to have someone else come here and accuse me of thinking like that again?   How else do you expect *me* to react.  

Besides, by the looks of it, you guys are just witch hunting.  No matter what I say at this point there will always be the genius who will only read one of my posts and come here saying "durr! how could you base the entire population on a few people! durr!" (even after I clearly said I didn't)

I will take the high ground before it gets out of hand and step out of this debate.


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## Ex-Dragoon (31 Jul 2005)

Ahhh muffin.... Maybe next time you will be more careful in what you post and how you post it. Thats all we ask.


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## Lost_Warrior (31 Jul 2005)

:


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## Lost_Warrior (31 Jul 2005)

> Ahhh muffin....



Are you trying to egg me on?  I am honestly not afraid of your "Directing Staff" position.   You would think the moderation would be more mature than that...  :


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## CdnPhoenix (2 Aug 2005)

This is just a 15 year olds opion so take it however you want. But, what I think would be "more mature than that" would be to just drop it, and walk away.


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## SeanPaul_031 (2 Aug 2005)

You guys have some serious issues...Lost_warrior just stated his experience he had and everyone jumps down his throat like hes commited a grand crime by sharing a story of what happened to him in the states


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## Ex-Dragoon (2 Aug 2005)

I think we all just find it strange of all the Canadian Forces personnel he is the only one that has ever had such an experience. Any US military personnel I and others (well except Lost_Warrior) have encountered have gone out of their way for us. And Lost_Warrior take a pill, I never once brought in the Directing Staff aspect of things at all but if you seek confrontation we have no problems in giving it to you or anyone else that feels they can tweak their noses at us.


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## Shadowhawk (2 Aug 2005)

Can't we all just get along? ;D


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## Lerick (2 Aug 2005)

i think most americans are ignorant thats why Bush is the president...i trully believe Lost_warrior story because thats the way americans behave!as Canadian we should be proud not bein in Iraq our prime minister is smarter ....all the country whos helping the U.S in Iraq got hit by terrorist action...i was reading some book about the second world war,the 761e units was alll black people, they didnt want to send them to war because they were black u.s soldier,at the end they had no choice sending them to war, and they did a great job kicking nazi a$$$....when they came back to america nobody give them respect or props,american people was callin them N**** ....they went save the world from NAZI...this is how poor is the mentality in the state,they finally give the highest honors to the 761e units 50years later!


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## 1feral1 (2 Aug 2005)

Lerick said:
			
		

> i think most americans are ignorant thats why Bush is the president...i trully believe Lost_warrior story because thats the way americans behave!as Canadian we should be proud not bein in Iraq our prime minister is smarter ....all the country whos helping the U.S in Iraq got hit by terrorist action...i was reading some book about the second world war,the 761e units was alll black people, they didnt want to send them to war because they were black u.s soldier,at the end they had no choice sending them to war, and they did a great job kicking nazi a$$$....when they came back to america nobody give them respect or props,american people was callin them N**** ....they went save the world from NAZI...this is how poor is the mentality in the state,they finally give the highest honors to the 761e units 50years later!



 : For this response, its pictures, not words.

Wes


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

> I think we all just find it strange of all the Canadian Forces personnel he is the only one that has ever had such an experience. Any US military personnel I and others (well except Lost_Warrior) have encountered have gone out of their way for us. And Lost_Warrior take a pill, I never once brought in the Directing Staff aspect of things at all but if you seek confrontation we have no problems in giving it to you or anyone else that feels they can tweak their noses at us.




Did you even read my experience?  It wasn't with US military personel in any way, shape of form.  When we were in Camp Blanding, the US forces on the base with us were quite friendly.   It's the US civilians who were "not as friendly" as their military counterparts (with the exception of the NYNG fellow, but he still respected us none the less).

And I tweaked my nose at no one.  I simply explained my experience and everyone went on a witch hunt looking for "hidden meaning" into what I said.


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## Ex-Dragoon (2 Aug 2005)

Lerick said:
			
		

> i think most americans are ignorant thats why Bush is the president...i trully believe Lost_warrior story because thats the way americans behave!as Canadian we should be proud not bein in Iraq our prime minister is smarter ....all the country whos helping the U.S in Iraq got hit by terrorist action...i was reading some book about the second world war,the 761e units was alll black people, they didnt want to send them to war because they were black u.s soldier,at the end they had no choice sending them to war, and they did a great job kicking nazi a$$$....when they came back to america nobody give them respect or props,american people was callin them N**** ....they went save the world from NAZI...this is how poor is the mentality in the state,they finally give the highest honors to the 761e units 50years later!



ummmm what does World War 2 and the US policy of segregation of units back then have to do with the issue on hand? The problem guys is we do not tolerate AntiAmerican rhetoric which you and Lost Warrior seem to be bound and determined on spreading.


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## Roy Harding (2 Aug 2005)

Over the years, I have served alongside soldiers from quite a few armies.   In my experience, they fall out as follows:

Americans - great bunch of soldiers - met a couple of jerks
British - great bunch of soldiers - met a couple of jerks
Czechs - great bunch of soldiers - met a couple of jerks
Aussies - great bunch of soldiers - met a couple of jerks
French - great bunch of soldiers - met a couple of jerks
Germans - great bunch of soldiers - met a couple of jerks
Kiwis - great bunch of soldiers - met a couple of jerks
Spanish - great bunch of soldiers - met a couple of jerks

Seems to be a pattern here somewhere.


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## Ex-Dragoon (2 Aug 2005)

I am sure all the above would say the same about us as well


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

> The problem guys is we do not tolerate AntiAmerican rhetoric which you and Lost Warrior seem to be bound and determined on spreading.



Sorry princess, but I'm not "bound on spreading" anything    I love Americans.  I'm "Mr American!"


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## Lerick (2 Aug 2005)

well if u know ur history and follow all the war and conflict ...u will see that the american people (civilian) always have bad comments against other nation and their own nations!the pass always reflect the present ... 
i mean mentality change but the roots always stay the same!


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## Lerick (2 Aug 2005)

usa go to war every 10 yrs or so...sence the second war!!!


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

That doesn't really make sense.  I just find it rather strange that NO ONE here can believe that an American civilian would EVER have anything bad to say about the Canadian army.  They seem to live in some la la land where all Americans know, respect and love Canadian soldiers....   :    And if anyone says otherwise, (like myself) they are obviously full of it, and are part of some sinister plot to spread anti-americanism...

Some people just have to be slapped back to reality and realize that not every American in the world loves, and will bend over to take it in the pervibial rear end for a Canadian soldier.


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## Lerick (2 Aug 2005)

well im kinda anti american...i read alot about war and conflict, and i realize american are never wrong ,always have a good reason to kill or invade other nation! korea,vietnam,russa(cold war),kuwait,and so on...i dont see why should kiss their butt when most of the problem start from them! we are in afg its not even our problems...we never got hit by any homeland terror ...


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

Why isn't Afghanistan our problem?  Terrorism is everyone's problem.  :


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Aug 2005)

Lerick,

Your not even on the same page.

Lost Warrior,

I understand where your coming from, that's why I've stayed out of this since the initial head to head we had. I accept your statement for what you claimed happened. We can see how this went from your initial post, where nothing was explained. In future, take a lesson, if your going to post something, make sure you include all the facts. This could most likely all been avoided if you'd been a little clearer.

Everyone else can stop the flaming now and get back on track.


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## aesop081 (2 Aug 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Everyone else can stop the flaming now and get back on track.



Sounds good to me...however, now we have this :



			
				Lerick said:
			
		

> well im kinda anti american...i read alot about war and conflict, and i realize american are never wrong ,always have a good reason to kill or invade other nation! korea,vietnam,russa(cold war),kuwait,and so on...i dont see why should kiss their butt when most of the problem start from them! we are in afg its not even our problems...we never got hit by any homeland terror ...



Were you locked away in the big brother house for the last 4-5 years ?  Or did the battery die in you reality-keeping system ?


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## Lerick (2 Aug 2005)

its a free country guys...my opinion is my opinion !as far as i know i still dont see ossama in jail...i see ppl dying every day in Iraq..now our troops are looking for ossama as well...i think we are looking for problem just like the U.S...we are on the good way to be hit ...if we keep kissing U.S butt we will be hit ...we will loose soldier! more and more soldier will be sent to afg...my cousin is in afg, keep sending me mail telling me they will never find ossama...we cannot change roots


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## Ex-Dragoon (2 Aug 2005)

So Lerick..would you prefer for us to sit on on the _War Against Terror _ and let everyone else do the fighting for the free world?


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## -rb (2 Aug 2005)

Lerick said:
			
		

> ...we cannot change roots


No, but you can kill them wherever they try and take hold, ie. Afghanistan.

I can see this thread is on a fast spiral downwards with your comments Lerick, i'll refrain from typing what I really think of your posts as I know it will definitely not be constructive to this thread.


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

> Everyone else can stop the flaming now and get back on track.



Fair enough


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

> we are on the good way to be hit ...if we keep kissing U.S butt we will be hit



So you prefer we bow to the will of these terrorist b@stards to prevent us from "being hit"?   That's a rather warped way of thinking...



> my cousin is in afg, keep sending me mail telling me they will never find ossama



Really?  We have been in Kabul the past couple of years.  It had nothing to do with finding Bin Laden.  We only just got to Kandahar and the full force has not yet arrived yet to begin huntilg Taliban and Al Queda forces.   Just how much mail has your cousin sent you over the past few days since troops started arriving with these "letters of doom and despair"?


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

Besides, even if we don't find him, he won't live forever.  We can atleast rest assured we made his life a living hell, and had him watching over every shoulder and up at the sky for the next bomb to hit until the day he does kick the dust.


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## Lerick (2 Aug 2005)

u guys are funny...make peace by doing war...kill to have peace! u think musslam or arabes want to see u.s soldier on their land?why do u think the gaz price is so high?now u wanna go look for ossama in afg when they dont even know where he is after 3yrs???ilol...kabul was a great mission, help ,no violance ,no blood,re built the country...the next mission is way diff and thats scary!


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## Lerick (2 Aug 2005)

yes my cousin is in kabul...hes coming back on august 4th...when we will loose alots of soldier on suicide booming we prolly will understand we dont belong there!


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

> ...kill to have peace!


  

Well how would you do it?   Honestly.  How would you try and make peace when you have killers out to destroy you?   Making a camp fire and singing kumbaya just won't cut it.



> ! u think musslam or arabes want to see u.s soldier on their land?



I don't know.  Afghans who want some stability in their country seem pretty thrilled about US (and allied) soldiers there protecting them from the Taliban and the war lords.



> why do u think the gaz price is so high?



Gas prices are so high because the supply is not meeting the demand.



> ol...kabul was a great mission, help ,no violance ,no blood,re built the country...the next mission is way diff and thats scary!



One mission secured the capital from the murderers, terrorists and Taliban.  The next mission is to bring the fight to them and make sure they don't bring the country into the chaos it once was because of them.   Are you saying you care nothing of the innocent people of Afghanistan and advocate violence and chaos?   Do you really think pulling out of the country is the "best possible solution" as opposed to going after those who take pleasure in killing and intimidating innocent civilians?   I'm sorry, but that's just sick.


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

> yes my cousin is in kabul...hes coming back on august 4th...when we will loose alots of soldier on suicide booming we prolly will understand we dont belong there!



The Kabul mission wasn't to find Osama...  :


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## GO!!! (2 Aug 2005)

Lost Warrior

While it was undoubtedly hard for you to be told off by minimum wage employees and bikers in the southern US, I would suggest that you refrain from the displays of juvenile nationalism yourself, if you do not wish to be subjected to them from other people. An example of this is wearing your cdn army t - shirt and army issue back pack in an extremely right-leaning state, then becoming upset when people speak their minds about you and your organisation.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of who you are, but you have to accept that someone will always disagree with you.

When I am abroad, I try to stay "under the radar" for two reasons, first, you can't see what a new place is all about if your too busy telling everyone who you are and what you do, and waiting for a reaction, or dressing for one. second, if you get in trouble, the three guys in blaring army t shirts saying "eh" and "hey hoser" are sure to be more memorable than the three in jeans and button down t shirts who quietly toured and had a few drinks.

In short - you dressed and acted in a manner to ensure that you were noticed - you were, so stop complaining!

Cheers


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## Ex-Dragoon (2 Aug 2005)

Lerick do you actually think these Arab nutcases will leave us alone if the west unilateraly withdrew from the Mid east? If you do you are pretty naive about how the world works.


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## aesop081 (2 Aug 2005)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Lerick do you actually think these Arab nutcases will leave us alone if the west unilateraly withdrew from the Mid east? If you do you are pretty naive about how the world works.



Ex-D,

I'm actualy at a loss....I go away for a week and i come back to this  :


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

> An example of this is wearing your cdn army t - shirt and army issue back pack in an extremely right-leaning state, then becoming upset when people speak their minds about you and your organisation.



Yea, because we know the right leaning states hate the military  : (I can't believe you insinuated that...)

Besides, in case you haven't noticed, the matter is closed.  Lessons learned, everyone is happy.


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## SemperFidelis (2 Aug 2005)

sometimes...I think this country need a tall order of **** hitting the fan, just shake things up a bit....seems like the only way for some ppl realize theres a problem, is that if an attack happens on their front step... if thats the only way the cob webs on the C7s are gonna come off and that coinage into the paper cup designated "military funding" LIKE HOLY MOLEY...its great Canada is a free country, but darn it!   Are people NOT aware sometimes its better to get at the problem before it shows up at your front door?   I may have said this in an extremist sorta way...but sometimes it takes extreme action for any kind of reaction... :rage: Im all in support for the US military ...and the Canadian...Hillier is one of the best things to happen to it in a while, there should be more like him!!


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## 1feral1 (2 Aug 2005)

Lerick said:
			
		

> its a free country guys...my opinion is my opinion !as far as i know i still dont see ossama in jail...i see ppl dying every day in Iraq..now our troops are looking for ossama as well...i think we are looking for problem just like the U.S...we are on the good way to be hit ...if we keep kissing U.S butt we will be hit ...we will loose soldier! more and more soldier will be sent to afg...my cousin is in afg, keep sending me mail telling me they will never find ossama...we cannot change roots



Tell me just one thing, your profile says your military units are 291 and 227. Can you inform us all on here what that is. After almost 30yrs of military service in two countries, I have never heard of this before.

Your posts in this thread are right "out of 'er", and you don't really seem to have a clue on whats going on in the world today. I would think at the age of 29 (or so your empty profile says), you would be a bit better informed of the big picture and world events. What is it going to take to give you a wake-up call on reality.


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## 48Highlander (2 Aug 2005)

What's with all the whining?   Ofcourse some Americans make fun of Canada and our army - and a hell of a lot more Canadians make fun of the US, while many of our soldiers mock their army.   When it comes down to it though, those of us who have actually worked with the Americans respect them and their capabilities, just like most US soldiers I've had the chance to work with have come to respect us and have been quite impressed with out training.   So who cares what some igonrant bastards said in a bar somewhere?   How the hell did you guys manage to start an argument over that?


As for Lerick, let him read some of the forums for a while and educate himself before you bother trying to argue with him.   It's quite clear that he has no clue what he's talking about, and as everything he's mentioned so far has been discussed on these boards dozens of times, there's no point rehashing the same arguments again.


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## GO!!! (2 Aug 2005)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> Yea, because we know the right leaning states hate the military   : (I can't believe you insinuated that...)
> 
> Besides, in case you haven't noticed, the matter is closed.   Lessons learned, everyone is happy.



The "right leaning state" was in reference to a pro - war, nationalistic populace you clown, and one that would find our dithering, peaceful ways foolish. 

To dumb it down a tad more - THEY SEE YOU AS ANTI - WAR WITH YOUR CDN ARMY T-SHIRT ON - AND THUS WORTHY OF RIDICULE.

Get the picture?


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## Lost_Warrior (2 Aug 2005)

> To dumb it down a tad more - THEY SEE YOU AS ANTI - WAR WITH YOUR CDN ARMY T-SHIRT ON - AND THUS WORTHY OF RIDICULE



How anyone can associate an army t-shirt and army backpack, and claiming to be in the army as "anti-war" is beyond me. 

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing  now.  Let it go man...  :


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## aesop081 (2 Aug 2005)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> How anyone can associate an army t-shirt and army backpack, and claiming to be in the army as "anti-war" is beyond me.
> 
> You're just arguing for the sake of arguing   now.   Let it go man...   :



Not to put words in GO!!!'s mouth, but the CDN part is important. If you'll remember , Canada decided to leave the US high and dry in Iraq.  That could very well be why you encountered that perticular attitude.

GO!!!, if i am mistaken, my appologies.


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## Baloo (2 Aug 2005)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> How anyone can associate an army t-shirt and army backpack, and claiming to be in the army as "anti-war" is beyond me.
> 
> You're just arguing for the sake of arguing  now.  Let it go man...  :



Yes, you did quote that it was a Canadian Army t-shirt. 

Is this the same one that includes "Armee" on the bottom?


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## EW (2 Aug 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Tell me just one thing, your profile says your military units are 291 and 227. Can you inform us all on here what that is. After almost 30yrs of military service in two countries, I have never heard of this before.



Lerick is a little off base and seems to be referring to the 291 (Comm Rsch) and 227 (LCIS Tech) MOCs.   Since the CF has zero Comm Rsch in Laval Quebec, he is likely in the recruiting system and wants to be 291 or 227.   If such is the case, than he will serve with a number of 291'ers who have served in places like Afghanistan and have little tolerance for ignorant opinions not based on fact.


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## GO!!! (2 Aug 2005)

aesop - you are exactly right. 

The US public as a group, regard Canada's decision not to go to war in Iraq as letting the US do the heavy lifting at best, and cowardice at the worst.

Wearing a t-shirt from a "allied" nation that stands idly by while hundreds of US troops are maimed and killed will not generate much goodwill.

I should have been more clear.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (2 Aug 2005)

GO!! and aesop081:

I see your point regarding the t-shirts, but it has been my experience (one full tour with the Americans, IRF(L) HQ, SETAF validation and six US exercises) that the US public - in general - is only dimly aware of what Canada is or is not doing - FOX News aside.  Most, even in the military, are quite surprised to find that we're not in Iraq.  Wearing a Canadian Army t-shirt is unlikely to attract politically motivated attention.  Rather, I suspect the "foreign" aspect came into play a tad - or maybe a few people were acting like a**es...

My perspective is thus:

I have never had a single negative comment from an American citizen about the CF in any context, military or otherwise.  On the military side, I have had an American officer break down crying, thanking Canada for helping out (this was in 2002 and he was from New York), Marines coming up to shake my hand in Kabul and tons of war stories about Canadians they've met on various operations:

"I used to think Canada had a big army and that you guys were everywhere.  Then I realized - it's the _same guys every time_!" (25th ID Major, Bagram 2005)

The Major was obviously joking, but he'd been in Somalia and worked with us there, as well as in the Balkans and the Gulf.  We're quite highly thought of by those with whom we have served alongside with.  The remainder who haven't seen many Canadians have been universally glad to see us there - even in tiny numbers and even while "avoiding" Iraq.  There might be jokes ("Canada HAS an army?") but they're invariably good-natured.

In my experience, Americans tend to equate Iraq and Afghanistan and there is very little emotional difference between the two for them.  I personally received an amazing reception in Ramstein in January - all because I was coming from (and returning to) "down range".

Finally, I will always remember staggering off the Airbus for an unscheduled stop in Keflavik Iceland after 20+ hours redeploying in February, only to be met by the USO Auxiliary, complete with snacks, gifts, music, "welcome home" posters and about 50 clapping, cheering people.  All at zero notice on a stormy Saturday night.  All but two of the people there were Americans, including the station commander.

Sorry for the war stories, but this pushes one of my buttons a tad.

Cheers,

Teddy


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## aesop081 (2 Aug 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> GO!! and aesop081:
> 
> I see your point regarding the t-shirts, but it has been my experience (one full tour with the Americans, IRF(L) HQ, SETAF validation and six US exercises) that the US public - in general - is only dimly aware of what Canada is or is not doing - FOX News aside.   Most, even in the military, are quite surprised to find that we're not in Iraq.   Wearing a Canadian Army t-shirt is unlikely to attract politically motivated attention.   Rather, I suspect the "foreign" aspect came into play a tad - or maybe a few people were acting like a**es...
> 
> ...



Teddy Ruxpin,

agree with you on all counts.  I went to the states on exchange at USAES after the war in Iraq started and i was well received and no mention was ever made of our non-participation in Iraq.  What i was doing was sumizing as to what might have cause the less than flattering comments described earlier.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (2 Aug 2005)

Of course, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise...You and GO!! could well be correct.

The "pushing my buttons" comment was directed at the original theory (if I can call it that) that Americans harbour some resentment towards the CF in general.


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## GO!!! (2 Aug 2005)

Teddy,

While I agree with your feelings on the treatment that we recieve from the uniformed side of the US, I have personally never had a bad one!my experiences have been somewhat more subdued with the public, especially in the area around Fort Drum, where I have many relatives. The more reasonable ones are willing to seperate the troops from the politics, but the reaction is invariably one in which we are seen as freeloading cowards.

I can totally understand the more ignorant responses that are recieved from the less educated in some areas, but I advocate simply not bringing the fact that I am Canadian to light, as opposed to either arguing, or getting into a showdown over who is "right".

In regards to certain individuals feeling the need to advertise their nationality and affiliation when in the US, my mother in law had her windows punched out of her car on two occasions in NY state when Canada neglected to participate in Iraq. Feelings run high when there is talk of war. She got a "supporting our troops" magnet and a US flag for the back, and it never happened again. Go figure.

I guess the moral of the story for Lost is that if you want to be noticed, you probably will be, just maybe not in a positive manner.

Cheers


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## Teddy Ruxpin (2 Aug 2005)

> In regards to certain individuals feeling the need to advertise their nationality and affiliation when in the US, my mother in law had her windows punched out of her car on two occasions in NY state when Canada neglected to participate in Iraq. Feelings run high when there is talk of war. She got a "supporting our troops" magnet and a US flag for the back, and it never happened again. Go figure.



Bloody hell...   

I'll freely admit that my experience hasn't been with US civvys (not for years anyway).  If that's the case, being the "grey man" - as you suggest - is certainly called for!


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## Spr.Earl (2 Aug 2005)

Well Teddy I'll give you an update on American Civie and Mli. attitude in regards to the CF.

 Just this last Feb. I was down in Florida at Tyndal AFB on a Air Field Post Attack Recovery Ex.
There was only 3 Army Eng.'s there and I was one of the three,we were there for our usual boom boom's and other odds and sod's,the U.S. Mil. pers excepted all of us with open arm's and as Mil. Pers. do "were have you been and so on".Many of the U.S. Air Force had served in Bosnia,Kosovo, Afg.etc and we all had been in the same place at one time over the years and there was no animosity,as usual we beat them at their own game.

On the Civie side,our plane was late by a day to come home, so we were put up in a Hotel down the road,when we arrived all in our relish ,there was a convention of former U.S. P.O.W.'s from WWII,these were former Soldiers,Airmen,Sailor's,they stopped us shook our hand's and thanked us for being a good neighbour,it blew me away,here's these Vet's thanking me and others for being good neighbours I turned around and thanked them,they asked why?I told them I was born in England and if it was not for you and all the other Vets and those who died I may be wearing Leder Hosen now.
It blew this old Vet away,we hugged and thanked each other.

After a quick shower I yacked with a few for a few min. and I learned that it's the young and the red neck's who complain but over all I was told the U.S. repsect's our Military because we do so much with so little and are good at what we do and they know if it's just cause we will be along side.
Most of these Vets saw Iraq as another Viet Nam and disagreed with it but all supported the Troop's.

It was an eye opener for me that evening even if it was only about an hour I spoke with these Gent's and their Ladies.Oh here's the kicker the wanted to give us the left over cold cut's etc.,I told them go home with a dogie bag,the boy's are going out don't waste it,they had a good laugh and understood and just said stay out of trouble and wished us luck.

This was just this last Feb.


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## Lerick (3 Aug 2005)

well i didnt not insult anyone here...its my personnel opinion!i respect everyone here...i respect ur opinion ur experience and ur military status...it takes many opinions to make an opinion...


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## Teddy Ruxpin (3 Aug 2005)

Spr.Earl:  rather gratifying, isn't it?



> This was just this last Feb.



My war stories were from this year as well...


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## Armymedic (3 Aug 2005)

Lerick said:
			
		

> well i didnt not insult anyone here...its my personnel opinion!i respect everyone here...i respect ur opinion ur experience and ur military status...it takes many opinions to make an opinion...



I think we should stop flaming the man and look at his comments from the perspective of what he is saying. Obviously there is a wide spread ignorance in regards to what we are doing in Afghanistan dispite the efforts of our PAF staffs. The Public should not be reacting with shock when our top general says our job may include having to kill people...cause, well duh, thats what we do.... And the media should not be picking up on what windbag MP is spouting either. So lets step back and educate the ignorant masses before flaming them...

As for the US Army, while they consider us lucky to have to only serve 6 months in what they consider a theater of war....they can not believe we do 12-18 month turn arounds. As one former active duty, now National Guard First Sgt put it...now wonder you guys are good, you've been everywhere, and seen it done.


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## SemperFidelis (4 Aug 2005)

I still think its hilarious that some ppl forget the meaning of ARMED forces .. ??? armymedic..well said


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## reccecrewman (2 Sep 2005)

Well one things for sure........... The US loves their Military.  The support those guys get from home is tremendous.  My hometown is a bordertown and every time I go there on leave, I go over the river to do some shopping and it never fails to amaze me that even in a town with an Army base nowhere close, there's STILL American flags waving on lawns & big SUPPORT OUR TROOPS signs all over the place.


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