# G-wagon



## IceHawk (28 Jan 2003)

Does anyone know what‘s going on with the Iltis replacement?  I hear the G-wagon won by default but when is the contract going to be signed?  Any news?


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## Korus (28 Jan 2003)

I know we‘re not supposed to get them in the reserve...


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## IceHawk (28 Jan 2003)

Well ya, you‘re getting Silverados this spring (so they say).  Hopefully they turn out alright, you‘ll have to keep us informed when your unit gets them.  I hope they‘re cooler then the Iltis, I always thought those things look like toys.


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## Jarnhamar (28 Jan 2003)

I don‘t see silverados as a good replacement for the iltis. I mean something had to be done about the aging iltis but a pick up truck?  
-We won‘t be allowed to take them out into the bush for fear of banging them up.
-I don‘t personally see them as a good platform to perform recceonisence from (a major role of the iltis i believe)


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## onecat (29 Jan 2003)

"I don‘t see silverados as a good replacement for the iltis"

I would to agree. Know I‘ve never used them but I‘ve always thought the Iltis was a good choice and good replacement for for the jeep.  There light and air transportable...and from what I‘ve heard good in the bush.  I doubt the silverados will do as well and it it will have a bigger footprint as well.  I know there will be people out there who will think this is a crazy, but I think the gov‘t should of just got bombardier to start up production on the Iltis again.

I hopefully the regs will get the G-wagon soon.


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## Korus (29 Jan 2003)

Well, the trucks going to the reserves are not intended to ever go operational overseas or anything of the sort..

Heh, I miss the rumors of the reserves getting civ-spec G-Wagons, while the Regs got Mil-Spec ones..


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## SNoseworthy (29 Jan 2003)

We should have actually imported more Iltis. The reason why they were so expensive is because we bought them off of Bombardier, who, if memory serves, charged us 4 times as much (jsut about) than we would have had to pay to the European manufacturer. They‘re good vehicles, but it would be  a monetary pain to replace them with more from Bombardier right now.


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## onecat (29 Jan 2003)

The would make sence.....  I mean its a gov‘t contact from a Canadian company, so of course they are coming to charge more.  After all they create jobs right.....    

In that case your right, we would get a great from Germany as they selling off all their over stock of Iltis‘s.  They had then boxed in storage waiting for a war that never happened.


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## IceHawk (29 Jan 2003)

Guys, the Iltis is unreliable and underpowered.  They served their time but there are vehicles out there that are far better (G-wagon for inctance).  I‘m not says the silverados are the best choice but I think they‘d do alright in the roles the Reserves need them for.  Keep in mind, they‘re primary role in the Reserves is mostly light transport and they are not intended to go anywhere near combat.  If you go to the GM website you‘ll see they aren‘t your normal civie pickup either.  
Here‘s a link:   http://www.gm-defense.com/products.asp?ProductID=7


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## SpinDoc (29 Jan 2003)

The German military began to replace their Iltis fleet with the G-wagon at just about the same time as the CF procured the Iltis... I think the initial specs for the G-wagon by the German military was to remedy any shortcomings they experienced with the Iltis.

The only thing remotely bad I‘ve heard about the vehicle is the *possible* public perception we‘re getting "Mercedes" for the military, but that was a while ago and it‘s not actually physically bad...

From what I‘ve heard, the GM vehicles are supposed to be replaced every x kilometres or y years... At least that‘s what someone said the intention is anyways.


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## Zoomie (29 Jan 2003)

Guys, the Reserves HAVE been allocated the new replacement SMP (LUVW= G-Wagen??)  Armoured Recce (Reserve) Units will NOT be conducting the light recce role in "Milverados", they will be doing it in the bona-fide military spec Light Utility Vehicle Wheeled (LUVW).  The "milverado" is planned to be mainly used to facilitate on-road troop transport, ration runs, sergeant-major‘s transport, etc...


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## IceHawk (29 Jan 2003)

Thanks Zoomie, I had no idea that some units were getting the G-wagon.  I just figured they would do armoured recce with the "milverados".  How is that armoured recce anyway?  I mean Iltis and G-wagon aren‘t really armour.


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## Korus (29 Jan 2003)

heh.. militia bullets and militia armour.


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## Spanky (29 Jan 2003)

"Milverado" for anyone is ridiculus.  GMC calls them CUCV II for a reason.  They would be a great replacement for the LSVW, but for something like a jeep sized vehicle...no way.  It‘s the card we‘ve been dealt so we have to play it.
The SMP vehicle will be going to the regs, with the exception of armd recce units.  They will be turning in 21 Iltis in exchange for 9 LUVW.  Recce in LUVW is indeed a role of the armd corps.  "Sneak and Peek" in an easy to hide light vehicle in conjunction with heavier, armd surveillance vehicles is the plan.


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## McG (29 Jan 2003)

> Originally posted by Spanky:
> [qb]  GMC calls them CUCV II for a reason. They would be a great replacement for the LSVW, but for something like a jeep sized vehicle...no way.   [/qb]





> Originally posted by IceHawk:
> [qb]  their primary role in the Reserves is mostly light transport and they are not intended to go anywhere near combat.  [/qb]





> Originally posted by SpinDoc:
> [qb]  From what I‘ve heard, the GM vehicles are supposed to be replaced every x kilometres or y years... At least that‘s what someone said the intention is anyways.   [/qb]


I am reminded of a Bde summer concentration where units had such a high reliance on "blue civi-pattern pick-ups" that a restriction had to be placed on their use (not after last light).  At the time, I was amused (or possibly saddened) that only one pick-up in the entire Bde had 4x4 capability.  However, being the general purpose vehicle of choice, this deficiency was reflected in units‘ willingness to move far from the road.  At the time this particular exercise, I was pondering why the Army invested in Civi-pattern trucks instead of of-the-shelf military pattern trucks.  These trucks could just as easily be replaced on the same scheduled as a civi-pattern fleet.  

I don‘t believe a pick-up is a good replacement for a Jeep type vehicle.  However, if it can replace civi-pattern trucks being used in the field then it is an improvement of a sort.


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## SpinDoc (29 Jan 2003)

Out of curiousity, does anyone know if it‘s the 2-door version or the 4-door version that is being purchased?  Or maybe a mix of both? Because the Silverado does come in different versions. 

i.e. is it:
  http://www.gm-defense.com/products.asp?ProductID=10  

or 

  http://www.gm-defense.com/products.asp?ProductID=39


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## IceHawk (30 Jan 2003)

The stuff I‘ve read hasn‘t specified 2 or four doors but the requirements call for 4 soldiers plus kit so I‘m thinking the four door version.


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## McG (31 Jan 2003)

I hope to see both types of vehicle (two & four door).  One of the arguments that kept civi-pattern pick-ups participating in a FTX was that they were all crew cabs.  So, they could carry more people than the LSVW and they could carry more cargo than an Iltis or an LSVW.


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## IceHawk (5 Feb 2003)

Here‘s the final verdict I guess:

 http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/vol_6/vol6_04/vol6-04army.pdf


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## sgt.shmedly102 (6 Feb 2003)

Wouldn‘t mind having those GM trucks in the Guard.

Why doesn‘t your army just buy HMMWV‘s? **** , we bought your stupid LAV‘s, fair‘s fair.   

  :rocket:    :tank:


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## Michael Dorosh (6 Feb 2003)

A friend of mine here in Calgary has a US Army Humvee....it‘s fun to drive around town in, but as a military vehicle, it‘s really a piece of crap.  Four seats only, wide as an M35 truck, twice as loud.  I‘ve driven it offroad at McLean Creek- it‘s no great shakes.  It will go through some rough terrain, but so will an Iltis, really, for a fraction of the price.  I don‘t see that the Humvee has any advantages over any of the vehicles being discussed.  Oh, sure, you can mount a grenade launcher on top of it.  Might mean something if Canada had any of those!    

Humvee ain‘t the right vehicle for us.


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## Michael Dorosh (6 Feb 2003)

Please, God, tell me the G-wagen has actual metal doors and a defroster unit that works!


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## sgt.shmedly102 (6 Feb 2003)

Are you sure it‘s a GI Humvee, because Humvees are not authorized for sale and must be scraped. Most of the ones you see on the road (not too mention in rap videos) are civilian made ones. Not many differences, but there are a few.


> it‘s fun to drive around town in, but as a military vehicle, it‘s really a piece of crap.


See, now I always thought the oppisite was true, I hated driving it in town (except for the reactions. imagine how much fun it was driving through Yale!) but thought it did pretty good in the field. And I do agree the seating sucks. Only the US Army counld design a vehicle so big with so little passanger room.

 I just figuered it would be easier for Canada to buy from her neighbor (whom she will be most likly to deploy with. simplified logistics) than from Germany. What the h*ll do you want with a little kublewagen anyway.

BTW, two Humvee team, one mounting a MK 19 and the other an M2 is pretty good for recon (sorry: recce). Now mount a TOW...


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## Jarnhamar (6 Feb 2003)

"I just figuered it would be easier for Canada to buy from her neighbor (whom she will be most likly to deploy with. simplified logistics) than from Germany"

whoa, gear down big trucker. When entering canada please leave all weapons and common sense at home.

While your waiting at the border you can read the story of our LSVW (Light Support Vehicle Wheeled or something) and how it failed the trial tests 3 times. (Twice of which being after the test itself was re-writen to try and help the LSVW pass).
I‘m told the only other country who uses the thing is Italy and they use it for runway security and maintenence.


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## Michael Dorosh (6 Feb 2003)

This is my friend‘s Humvee - I don‘t think the weapons mount is standard on the civvie version....   

The US Army ones are officially restricted, but this one slipped through - some dealers take parts from scrapped Humvees and put them together - and the USMC has fewer restrictions on resale.  There aren‘t many Army Humvees in private hands, but this is one of them.


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## IceHawk (6 Feb 2003)

I think the G-wagon is a more practical vehicle anyway.  There are a lot of places, especially in Europe (where we do a lot of peacekeeping) and Asia, where Humvee‘s can‘t go because they are simply too big.  Even the USMC is buying G-wagons for their fast attack vehicles.


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## SNoseworthy (6 Feb 2003)

LSVW? That‘s the piece of crap made in British Columbia that keeps catching fire isn‘t it?

See what happens when the government at the time forces DND to buy everything from within the Country? A piece of crap can win solely because it‘s Canadian-made.


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## SpinDoc (6 Feb 2003)

There was this site I went to sometime ago (I can‘t remember where I saw it) that said that Western Star actually made a bid initially with a very modified version of the Iveco vehicle... which according to some accounts actually made the vehicle half decent.  Alas, (according to the article) Iveco said "No, you will not modify our design in such ways, that‘s against the licensing agreement"  Hence the LSVW we have today


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## sgt.shmedly102 (6 Feb 2003)

Ok, you‘re right, it‘s not a civ Humvee. But I can see why he took it to Canada, you sure he didn‘t just drive it out of the motor pool?   

I have heard of people buying the scraped pieces and rebuilding Humvees; that must be rediculously expensive. Even the frame has to be rebuilt as they must be cut into pieces before being sold for scrap.

BTW, procedures for selling surplus government property are laid out by DoD, as far as I know there is no difference between the services and what they can and can not sell.

Oh, and yes, the Humvee is very big. (it was really fun to drive one  down the streets of Bosnia at night.) But you have to remember it was designed primarily for off-road use, and for that will beat just about anything out there. (although I would still prefer an old Jeep CJ myself.)


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## Gunner109 (6 Feb 2003)

the replacement for the Iltis I think is a good Idea.  The Iltis was always under powered and had VERY little room in it.  I remember when we had the willys jeep and when we got the iltis we all thought it ws cool because it was new.  We soon found out that it couldnt do the things the old jeeps did.  The great thing about the GMC is that you can LPO parts and it is easy to fix.  Much like the 5/4 was.  The new Mercedies looks like a tough truck also but I have only seen it trialed in Meaford,  I myself have not driven it.  With a name like Mercedies it should be good I hope.


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## Argyll_2347 (6 Feb 2003)

G-wagen:
 http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehgwag.htm 

LUVW Competition:
 http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehluvw.htm 

LUVW Candidates:
 http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehluv2.htm


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