# Officers…only desk jobs?



## NMK (28 Jan 2014)

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I searched extensively in these forums for an answer to my question, and while I did find information scattered here and there, there were no posts that directly addressed my dilemma. (MODs: this is not an NCM vs. Officers question. Please don’t just link me to one of those mega-threads and close this one. Much appreciated.)

So here’s my story. I am 27 and have a degree in IT+Business Mgt. from Ryerson U. I’ve worked in the IT field for 1.5 yrs and got sick and tired of desk jobs. I was so sick with the whole cubicle lifestyle that I quit a well-paying IT job and started working in the retail sales for a cell phone company in Toronto. Now I am in search of a career, and for the third time in my life, found myself considering the CAF as an alternative to the desk jobs. 

I almost set my mind on applying and shortlisted Signals Officer and Communications and Electronics Engineering (Air) Officer as they tie back to my IT background. I was under the impression that since it’s in the military, I could break free from the whole cubicle structure. However, upon further research and discussions with two current CAF members, I realized the officers are tied to the same old civilian style desks. This is a major turn-off as that was sort of the main reason for me wanting to join the Forces. (I know some of you may say that’s not a solid reason, but we all got our own motives.) After some research, I leaned towards Aerospace Control Officer as it seemed like less of a cubicle job and mainly at the control tower. I was also advised to take the NCM route as that would be more hands-on and always a field work. But I am not much keen on it as I want to utilize my degree that I spent $50k and five years completing. If I choose NCM, I would apply for ATIS Technician or ACIS Specialist.

Now here are my specific questions. 
1.	Are the stereotypes true, that officers spend most of their career in the office? If they do, how do they lead their platoon/troop?
2.	At what level/rank do officers tend to get desk jobs? I understand 2lt/Lt would be spending more time with their platoon on the field?
3.	Can someone give me a typical breakdown of an officer’s day/year at Lt/Capt rank? What percentage is in the office vs. on the field?
4.	Even for NCMs, when they rise to the ranks of NCO, wouldn’t they have more of an office job?
5.	I know most people ask about switching from NCM to Officer, but is there a possibility of the reverse? If so, how long does it take approximately?

I request inputs from everyone, but if there is any Sig. O or CELE O., I would really appreciate their two-cent on it. Some questions I asked may seem redundant, but I want to make an informed decision. I don’t want to spend two years of my life applying+training and then find out I am back where I was trying to run away from. Thanks in advance.


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## Michael OLeary (28 Jan 2014)

NMK said:
			
		

> 1.	Are the stereotypes true, that officers spend most of their career in the office? If they do, how do they lead their platoon/troop?



On average yes, there are more office jobs than field jobs for officers, so it works out that your career will consist of postings which are office jobs more than not.  Some officers get lucky and spend most of their careers in field units, this is unusual and just draws down the opportunities for the remainder.



			
				NMK said:
			
		

> 2.	At what level/rank do officers tend to get desk jobs? I understand 2lt/Lt would be spending more time with their platoon on the field?



Starting at captain for certain in most trades, but there are field unit positions for captains, majors and lieutenant colonels (with a decreasing proportion  at each level). Even as a 2Lt/Lt in the infantry, you'd spend a lot of time sitting at a desk, it's amazing how much personnel administration can be generated by 30+ infantry soldiers who are expecting your very best efforts at their paperwork. Add to that training administration and professional development, and time in front of soldiers doing soldierly things can be rare and precious at the best of times.



			
				NMK said:
			
		

> 3.	Can someone give me a typical breakdown of an officer’s day/year at Lt/Capt rank? What percentage is in the office vs. on the field?



There is no "typical."  Career managers like to take about career models that alternate posting between units and staff jobs, but the numbers just don't work like that. See answer 1.



			
				NMK said:
			
		

> 4.	Even for NCMs, when they rise to the ranks of NCO, wouldn’t they have more of an office job?



Yes, many do. And for all, the amount of administration they have to do increases, whether or not they describe their working environment as a cubicle.



			
				NMK said:
			
		

> 5.	I know most people ask about switching from NCM to Officer, but is there a possibility of the reverse? If so, how long does it take approximately?



This would be rare enough that any estimates would be wild assed guesses.

Unless you plan to be a private soldier and specialize in carrying a grenade launcher and sweeping the LAV hanger floor, you will end up doing administration. In a bizarre twist of fate, competency leads to more "office" work, for both officers and NCMs. There is no magic formula to be "that officer" who never sees a cubicle or does paperwork. We live in a reality based environment that takes a lot of real effort, focus and dedication to do the administration right so that the opportunities to train aren't wasted (all the time while wondering if you are preparing troops for you to lead overseas, or for the next generation of NCOs and officers to lead overseas.)b

To summarize, just wanting to be a "field officer" and trying to find that niche is a silly expectation to try to design a career around. Be prepared to sit at a desk for years at a time, and be expected to perform well there, there are soldiers depending on that as much as they depending on the guy they follow at the same time.


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## mkil (28 Jan 2014)

I am going to take a stab at this one...

Unfortunately, officer jobs are desk jobs. Most of the Lt`s I know, spend their days signing leave passes, memos and other administrative paperwork. AEC officers can be in the tower, but on the base I am at (active air force base), most of them are on the ground working with radar teams, and managing the Aerospace Control Ops (Whom are NCMs). 

I feel your pain about paying so much for education, and feeling like you "wasted" it if you go NCM. Trust me, it is not an easy pill to swallow - as I have three degrees (BSc, BEd and MEd) and chose the NCM route. I will eventually be an officer, but as of right now - I am learning valuable lessons being an NCM and think when it comes time to turn to the dark side, I will be a better leader for my troops because I have "been there". No one can make the choice but you, and in the end you have to choose a career you will be happy doing for at least 5 years. I can say with confidence though, that if you are truly a person who is unhappy behind a desk, do not become an officer right away. There is time for that later. The NCM trades you pointed out are Spec pay, so when you you are fully trained you will make more money than other NCMs anyway. 

Good luck!


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## Kat Stevens (28 Jan 2014)

As was explained to me, They're called "officers"  because they sit in an office and are called sir.  Officer is actually a misspelling of "officesir", the Middle English spelling of the original definition.  Hope this helps.


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## matthew1786 (28 Jan 2014)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> As was explained to me, They're called "officers"  because they sit in an office and are called sir.  Officer is actually a misspelling of "officesir", the Middle English spelling of the original definition.  Hope this helps.



Mind = Blown  k:


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## Humphrey Bogart (28 Jan 2014)

NMK said:
			
		

> 1.	Are the stereotypes true, that officers spend most of their career in the office? If they do, how do they lead their platoon/troop?



As an officer you will spend a lot of time doing office work and administration as we are the ones, in tandem with Snr NCO's, that administer the military.  This does not mean that we don't get the opportunity to lead soldiers it's just that what you perceive as leadership and what it is in reality is completely different.  

Think of it this way:

Officer's plan the operation
NCM's execute the operation

You need both in order for the system to work.  I am an infantry officer and I can tell you one thing, nothing is more fulfilling then making a plan and seeing soldiers execute it.  The leadership is exercised by ensuring the soldiers adhere to the plan. 

I can tell you that as a signals officer, while you may not be working directly with some of the equipment that the soldiers work with, you MUST understand how it all works as you will be acting as an advisor to commanders throughout your career and they will be expecting you to be able to provide them with the right information when they turn to you and ask you for advice.  



> 2.	At what level/rank do officers tend to get desk jobs? I understand 2lt/Lt would be spending more time with their platoon on the field?



We all start our career's in desks.  If you are an officer you should expect to spend the majority of your time doing administration.  Without administration the troops won't eat, they won't get supplies and the machine will stop working.... it is a necessary evil.  You will get field time but the majority of your time will be spent on administration.



> 3.	Can someone give me a typical breakdown of an officer’s day/year at Lt/Capt rank? What percentage is in the office vs. on the field?



Too broad a question



> 4.	Even for NCMs, when they rise to the ranks of NCO, wouldn’t they have more of an office job?



Once you hit the rank of Warrant Officer, you are focused primarily on administration so whether you are Officer or NCM, you can't escape administration.  We need smart people in both streams to make the big machine work.



> 5.	I know most people ask about switching from NCM to Officer, but is there a possibility of the reverse? If so, how long does it take approximately?



I would advise picking one or the other, career advancement in both is age dependent and if you are concerned about advancement then it is disadvantageous to switch as you will limit yourself.  You may be able to switch later but this is easier said then done, trust me.

You need to get the idea that all officers do is sit behind desks out of your head.  Yes, our primary focus is on administration but that is not the only thing.  I will give you a very specific example from the perspective of a Sig O.  My buddy is a Captain and was the Signals Officer of my former Battalion.  He played a hand in designing an Air-Droppable Command Post.  Did it involve a lot of desk and computer work?  Yes of course it did but many of the innovations were ideas of his and his soldiers and he was the guy at the end of the day that put it all together, did the leg work and made it happen. 

Here is a video of the CP being dropped out of a C130 Hercules:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152389610240531&set=vb.192286137517119&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set


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## peltch34 (29 Jan 2014)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> As an officer you will spend a lot of time doing office work and administration as we are the ones, in tandem with Snr NCO's, that administer the military.  This does not mean that we don't get the opportunity to lead soldiers it's just that what you perceive as leadership and what it is in reality is completely different.
> 
> Think of it this way:
> 
> ...



I've applied for the Infantry Officer position, and am just wondering if 2Lt/Lt's get the opportunity to participate in specialty courses like the Jump Course or Mountain/Winter/Jungle/Urban Operations, etc. I understand and accept that there is an administration aspect to the job, but I was also under the impression that as a junior officer I'd have a realistic opportunity to take many of the same courses as NCMs while leading a platoon in field operations as well.

The more I read about the job, the more I feel like I should apply as an Infantry NCM first, and have some fun with the training opportunities, then apply to be an officer later on in my career. It's kind of a tough decision because both sides opportunities are equally appealing, but I don't think I have a clear picture of the training opportunities that I'd have as an officer. So, your input/advice/perspective would be greatly appreciated!



(Mod edit to close quoted text.)


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## dangerboy (29 Jan 2014)

peltch34 said:
			
		

> The more I read about the job, the more I feel like I should apply as an Infantry NCM first, and have some fun with the training opportunities, then apply to be an officer later on in my career.
> 
> (Mod edit to close quoted text.)



It is not that easy to commission from the ranks, they only offer it to a select number.  It is better to make the decision now instead of hoping in the future to make it.  Also don't make your decision based on getting courses, I have know NCMs that have been trying for 10 years to get a jump course with no luck and seen officers with less than 6 months in get it.  The loading on courses depends on the needs of the CF, majority of the time it is a matter of you being in the right place at the right time.


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## Pusser (29 Jan 2014)

mkil said:
			
		

> I am going to take a stab at this one...
> 
> Unfortunately, officer jobs are desk jobs. Most of the Lt`s I know, spend their days signing leave passes, memos and other administrative paperwork. AEC officers can be in the tower, but on the base I am at (active air force base), most of them are on the ground working with radar teams, and managing the Aerospace Control Ops (Whom are NCMs).
> 
> ...



Whoa!  That's a bit of an oversimplification.  Yes, officers are largely responsibile for the administration of the CF, but that's a heck of a lot more than "signing leave passes, memos (everybody writes memos) and other administrative paperwork."  Yes, officers spend a lot of time at their desks, but sometimes that Army officer's desk is a folding table in a forward operating base in a combat zone, that Naval officer's desk is bolted to the deck of frigate in the middle of the ocean (a pretty cool "cubicle" if you ask me), or that Air Force officer's desk is decoratively placed against the wall at the Holiday Inn.  Furthermore, that paperwork is essential to the operational capability of any professional modern armed force.  That paperwork consists of formulating plans, designing systems, supporting your subordinates requests for career enhancing opportunities, ensuring you have sufficient materiel and food for operations and the list goes on.  It's all important and essential stuff.  In addition to all that paperwork, officers also have to get out and lead their subordinates in the things they're doing, so there are often times when the desk work is done after what some would consider normal working hours.  Officers can expect to work long hours, ironically sometimes in an effort to ensure their subordinates do not.  Officers do not necessarily sit at a desk instead of, but rather as well as, working in the field. 

"Wasted" education?  There is no such thing.  I'm a little concerned with the tone of your statement though.  Perhaps I'm reading too much in between the lines, but you seem to feel that with your three degrees, being an NCM is somehow beneath your true potential and you are really just at a stop along the way.  Education does not create intelligence or ability.  It is merely a tool to aid you in life.  Two of the best officers I have ever known were both "knuckle-draggers" (entered under the old OCTP program, straight out of high school - no degrees).  Both of them achieved flag rank.  There is more to being an officer than a good education.  I also hate to burst your bubble, but your future aspirations for being an officer are not as easy as simply saying, "now is the time."  Because you have "been there," you will also have a track record, which will be scrutinized quite closely.  Having been involved in the selection of NCMs for commissioning as officers on more than one occasion, I can say from experience that getting commissioned from within the CF is actually more difficult than from off the street.  The process is extremely competitive and you really have to stand out and, as I said, your entire NCM career will be looked at and analyzed for your potential.

Finally, officers with former NCM service tend to fall into two categories: very good and very bad.  The very good ones are those who learned the lessons of leadership as an NCM and use their experience to its maximum potential.  The very bad ones are those that go on a lot about having "been there," but can't seem to realize that they are no longer "there."


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## mkil (29 Jan 2014)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Whoa!  That's a bit of an oversimplification.  Yes, officers are largely responsibile for the administration of the CF, but that's a heck of a lot more than "signing leave passes, memos (everybody writes memos) and other administrative paperwork."  Yes, officers spend a lot of time at their desks, but sometimes that Army officer's desk is a folding table in a forward operating base in a combat zone, that Naval officer's desk is bolted to the deck of frigate in the middle of the ocean (a pretty cool "cubicle" if you ask me), or that Air Force officer's desk is decoratively placed against the wall at the Holiday Inn.  Furthermore, that paperwork is essential to the operational capability of any professional modern armed force.  That paperwork consists of formulating plans, designing systems, supporting your subordinates requests for career enhancing opportunities, ensuring you have sufficient materiel and food for operations and the list goes on.  It's all important and essential stuff.  In addition to all that paperwork, officers also have to get out and lead their subordinates in the things they're doing, so there are often times when the desk work is done after what some would consider normal working hours.  Officers can expect to work long hours, ironically sometimes in an effort to ensure their subordinates do not.  Officers do not necessarily sit at a desk instead of, but rather as well as, working in the field.
> 
> "Wasted" education?  There is no such thing.  I'm a little concerned with the tone of your statement though.  Perhaps I'm reading too much in between the lines, but you seem to feel that with your three degrees, being an NCM is somehow beneath your true potential and you are really just at a stop along the way.  Education does not create intelligence or ability.  It is merely a tool to aid you in life.  Two of the best officers I have ever known were both "knuckle-dragger" (entered under the old OCTP program, straight out of high school - no degrees).  Both of them achieved flag rank.  There is more to being an officer than a good education.  I also hate to burst your bubble, but your future aspirations for being an officer are not as easy as simply saying, "now is the time."  Because you have "been there," you will also have a track record, which will be scrutinized quite closely.  Having been involved in the selection of NCMs for commissioning as officers on more than one occasion, I can say from experience that getting commissioned from within the CF is actually more difficult than from off the street.  The process is extremely competitive and you really have to stand out and, as I said, your entire NCM career will be looked at and analyzed for your potential.
> 
> Finally, officers with former NCM service tend to fall into two categories: very good and very bad.  The very good ones are those who learned the lessons of leadership as an NCM and use their experience to its maximum potential.  The very bad ones are those that go on a lot about having "been there," but can't seem to realize that they are no longer "there."



That's the crappy part about internet writing; very hard to convey tone. Education does not give me a rank; it give me choice. And I actively chose to be an NCM. I totally agree with you about no such thing as wasted education, but every month when my $600 student loan comes out, I kind of kick myself in the rear for not doing this when I was 18 instead of paying all that money for education which may or may not be of direct use to me in the future. I wish that instead of spending 7 years in university, that I spent that time in the forces, doing the job I do now. And please, there is no need for the condescending tone. I know how difficult it is to commission, so there is no bubble to be burst.


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## peltch34 (29 Jan 2014)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> It is not that easy to commission from the ranks, they only offer it to a select number.  It is better to make the decision now instead of hoping in the future to make it.  Also don't make your decision based on getting courses, I have know NCMs that have been trying for 10 years to get a jump course with no luck and seen officers with less than 6 months in get it.  The loading on courses depends on the needs of the CF, majority of the time it is a matter of you being in the right place at the right time.



Thanks for the insight. It is a very tough decision, but I keep finding myself leaning towards the officer route. I just keep trying to weigh the pros and cons of going each route, while becoming more informed on them as I go. Once again, thanks.


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## Zoomie (29 Jan 2014)

Pusser said:
			
		

> or that Air Force officer's desk is decoratively placed against the wall at the Holiday Inn.


Or... a RCAF Officer's desk might be moving about in a fluid, fast paced 3-D environment at 200+ MPH - all the time signing leave passes, drafting memos and counseling the dirty enlisted. ;-)


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## Humphrey Bogart (29 Jan 2014)

I feel like people have this idea that officers just tell their subordinates to go out and do the work while we sit back and slam cavier and shiraz.  As an Officer you will participate in every exercise your troops are on and when they are resting you will be working.  If you don't think you will be challenged then step up to the plate and sign up as an infantry officer and head to the Combat Training Centre in Gagetown.  DP 1.1 (Platoon Commanders Battle Course) averages around 50% failure rate (the year I did it (2009) we had a 70% failure rate).  Will see how you do when you have to write fighting patrol orders and then execute a fighting patrol after not sleeping for four or five days.


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## Ayrsayle (29 Jan 2014)

peltch34 said:
			
		

> I've applied for the Infantry Officer position, and am just wondering if 2Lt/Lt's get the opportunity to participate in specialty courses like the Jump Course or Mountain/Winter/Jungle/Urban Operations, etc. I understand and accept that there is an administration aspect to the job, but I was also under the impression that as a junior officer I'd have a realistic opportunity to take many of the same courses as NCMs while leading a platoon in field operations as well.
> 
> The more I read about the job, the more I feel like I should apply as an Infantry NCM first, and have some fun with the training opportunities, then apply to be an officer later on in my career. It's kind of a tough decision because both sides opportunities are equally appealing, but I don't think I have a clear picture of the training opportunities that I'd have as an officer. So, your input/advice/perspective would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> (Mod edit to close quoted text.)



Your milage may vary.  From my experience as a Lt (and those of my peers) your primary focus will be as a Pl Comd with courses being secondary.  Right place, Right time seems to have a large influence on what you will do as a junior officer (Patrol Pathfinder, Jump courses, Mountain Ops, etc) but it is equally possible you will get no specialty courses.  Some will be earmarked for courses based on the roles they will fill later (Like Advanced Recce or Patrol Pathfinder for Recce Pl Comd).  In Short - the training opportunities you will receive depend entirely on the needs of the CF, and occasionally because you are there when they need to fill spots (and hope to make use of your skills later).

You will have many opportunities for training as an officer, though it will typically be officer specific training (See AJSO, CAFJOD courses, ATOC, AOC, etc) various other courses such as presiding officer, etc) but they tend to be tailored not toward specialty combat training but rather more administrative/tactical/operational.

If you want to fire weapons and learn more advanced "soldier" skills - I'd point you toward being an NCM.
If tactics and management is more your interest - Officer will be a more ideal fit.

Education has little to do with which you'd be more suited for - I have two Cpl's in my Pl who have university degrees, and several others with post-secondary (Though I do understand the desire to pay off your student loans).


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## old fart (29 Jan 2014)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> As was explained to me, They're called "officers"  because they sit in an office and are called sir.  Officer is actually a misspelling of "officesir", the Middle English spelling of the original definition.  Hope this helps.



Okee Dokee!!


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## Marchog (29 Jan 2014)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> As was explained to me, They're called "officers"  because they sit in an office and are called sir.  Officer is actually a misspelling of "officesir", the Middle English spelling of the original definition.  Hope this helps.


That's a cute story but unfortunately I'm pretty sure "sir" comes from the Old French "sieur" (Lord).  ;D

To add to the discussion this is why I'm initially applying for an NCM position. I'll have all the time in the world to sit in an office when I'm older and more decrepit.


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## peltch34 (29 Jan 2014)

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> Your milage may vary.  From my experience as a Lt (and those of my peers) your primary focus will be as a Pl Comd with courses being secondary.  Right place, Right time seems to have a large influence on what you will do as a junior officer (Patrol Pathfinder, Jump courses, Mountain Ops, etc) but it is equally possible you will get no specialty courses.  Some will be earmarked for courses based on the roles they will fill later (Like Advanced Recce or Patrol Pathfinder for Recce Pl Comd).  In Short - the training opportunities you will receive depend entirely on the needs of the CF, and occasionally because you are there when they need to fill spots (and hope to make use of your skills later).
> 
> You will have many opportunities for training as an officer, though it will typically be officer specific training (See AJSO, CAFJOD courses, ATOC, AOC, etc) various other courses such as presiding officer, etc) but they tend to be tailored not toward specialty combat training but rather more administrative/tactical/operational.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's a tough decision because both routes are very appealing. I applied for ROTP so if I get accepted for that then I'll probably take that route for the obvious benefits, and the opportunity it presents. That being said, I am nearing the completion of my degree and will become ineligible for ROTP if I am not selected in April, so I may have to wait until I graduate anyways. Plenty of time to mull over my decision. 

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.


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## Eye In The Sky (29 Jan 2014)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> Or... a RCAF Officer's desk might be moving about in a fluid, fast paced 3-D environment at 200+ MPH - all the time signing leave passes, drafting memos and counseling the dirty enlisted. ;-)



That yellow part is insulting!  We prefer to be called "the unwashed masses".


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## Journeyman (29 Jan 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> We prefer to be called "the unwashed masses".


I tend to stick with "minions," leaving any hygiene issues to the RSM to sort out.


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## Eye In The Sky (29 Jan 2014)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I tend to stick with "minions," leaving any hygiene issues to the RSM to sort out.



A good plan.  As most of us (well at least I did) will have to Google "minions", but we will only get results for mini onions.  If only we would have listened to the teacher we would be more better learned to spell!   :'(


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## George Wallace (29 Jan 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> A good plan.  As most of us (well at least I did) will have to Google "minions", but we will only get results for mini onions.  If only we would have listened to the teacher we would be more better learned to spell!   :'(



Or you can rent Despicable Me.    >


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## Eye In The Sky (29 Jan 2014)

Not me...there are two many sill-lul-bulls in one of those words.


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## NMK (29 Jan 2014)

Thanks everyone for your comments. I like the fact how everyone is so helpful in the CAF with the rookie questions we (applicants) have.

Michael O’Leary, I really appreciate your breakdown of the answers to each of my questions…great to have an officer’s PoV.

mkil, wow…that’s impressive that you have three degrees! You sure are a good example of someone who took the NCM route given both options.

RoyalDrew, thanks for all your input and the link to the CP video…really interesting. I sent you a PM back.

Pusser, thanks for your input. Like how you said, “sometimes that Army officer's desk is a folding table in a forward operating base in a combat zone, that Naval officer's desk is bolted to the deck of frigate in the middle of the ocean, or that Air Force officer's desk is decoratively placed against the wall at the Holiday Inn.” Not the typical 9-5 cubicle environment I imagine on the civvy street.

Both routes seem to have their pros and cons as it applies to my unique dilemma. I am giving CFA a serious thought and most likely will set up an appointment with a recruiter and apply online. I am at the state right now where one moment I feel like sending in the application, and the next moment, I retract! Same with choosing between NCM vs. Officer – it’s alternating every other moment.


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## Infanteer (29 Jan 2014)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> I feel like people have this idea that officers just tell their subordinates to go out and do the work while we sit back and slam cavier and shiraz.



You've seen me in action, have you?


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## Kat Stevens (29 Jan 2014)

Marchog said:
			
		

> That's a cute story but unfortunately I'm pretty sure "sir" comes from the Old French "sieur" (Lord).  ;D
> 
> To add to the discussion this is why I'm initially applying for an NCM position. I'll have all the time in the world to sit in an office when I'm older and more decrepit.



Wait a second here... You really needed to correct me because you thought I was serious?  I guess I need to work on my delivery.


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## PPCLI Guy (29 Jan 2014)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> You've seen me in action, have you?



I've been watching you off and on since 2007, and I have yet to see many signs of "action".... >


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## Journeyman (29 Jan 2014)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> I've been watching you off and on since 2007, and I have yet to see many signs of "action".... >


Oh, feel the burn.   :evil:


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## GAP (29 Jan 2014)

:rofl:


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## dapaterson (29 Jan 2014)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> You've seen me in action, have you?



Shouldn't that be "inaction"?


Then again, I do remember a certain subbie taking a Colonel's beer...


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## Pusser (30 Jan 2014)

mkil said:
			
		

> That's the crappy part about internet writing; very hard to convey tone. Education does not give me a rank; it give me choice. And I actively chose to be an NCM. I totally agree with you about no such thing as wasted education, but every month when my $600 student loan comes out, I kind of kick myself in the rear for not doing this when I was 18 instead of paying all that money for education which may or may not be of direct use to me in the future. I wish that instead of spending 7 years in university, that I spent that time in the forces, doing the job I do now. And please, there is no need for the condescending tone. I know how difficult it is to commission, so there is no bubble to be burst.



I apologize if I sounded condescending.  I didn't really mean to be, but as you said, it can be difficult to convey tone in writing sometimes.  My concern though was that I have seen many young hopefuls assert that since they have a degree, they "know" they can be officers and as both I and many others on this forum have said, it's really not that simple.  I especially cringe whenever I hear someone (usually a senior NCO or warrant officer) referring to "taking my" commission.  One can apply for commissioning, but they are not for the taking.  They are granted by Her Majesty and must be earned (although I will admit that whether all officers actually "earn" their commissions is sometimes doubtful or at least puzzling  ;D).


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## Marchog (30 Jan 2014)

> Wait a second here... You really needed to correct me because you thought I was serious?  I guess I need to work on my delivery.


On the internet, you can never really tell.


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## Container (31 Jan 2014)

I'm a junior officer in the reserves. I'll give you my experience.

I've been in the field with the guys, we do similar tasks lots of times where I can pitch in. I do the PWTs just like the gunners. Pitch tents, lights stoves, handle weapons, patrol etc. BUT-

Last weekend while they did their mortar course I did UER paperwork. They asked if I'd prefer to sit in on the course but it's important that PERs and UERs get done so they, the NCMs, are getting the support they need.

You have paper responsibilities. I have found, limited in my experience as an officer, that it's a good mix. But it is different.


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## ajp (31 Jan 2014)

Every officer has different experience. Quite literally. I was pres.  I am regs.  I'm at a desk today.  Yup a tour...at a desk.  Great friends have more field time.   Other friends have never deployed on tour.  There's no one course or path.  No debate here.   Normal career path isn't normal.


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## Goose15 (31 Jan 2014)

:goodpost:

Well said.


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## ajp (31 Jan 2014)

Thanks goose....li get eloquent once in a while.


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## old fart (1 Feb 2014)

ajp said:
			
		

> Every officer has different experience. Quite literally. I was pres.  I am regs.  I'm at a desk today.  Yup a tour...at a desk.  Great friends have more field time.   Other friends have never deployed on tour.  There's no one course or path.  No debate here.   Normal career path isn't normal.



In the last 30 months, I have taken my desk to Central America, West- East and Central Africa (I’m there now)…a total of 8 taskings in Africa alone.  In addition, multiple taskings to various Eastern European countries and finally various countries in Central Asia ending with Stan and Jan as far as the border with China.  Add to that related trips to Europe and the US - I have filled two passports moving that desk.   

Departing for Canada today, I will be in Canada probably less than two weeks before I deploy again….this trip has been three weeks, the next will be for a month.

Deducting basic and time spent posted to schools – some 10 years of my 36 years (all Reg Force)…the rest of my time has been in operational units.  

As someone said, “mileage varies.”


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## NMK (8 Feb 2014)

Thanks everyone for your valuable input! All of you have definitely motivated me and I've applied last week for Signals Officer position. I think I am lucky cause I heard back from the virtual recruitment centre in only two days to book my CFAT! I believe this has to be some kind of a record. Worth mentioning here that I had been trying to get in touch with Toronto recruiting centre for five days straight prior to that...unsuccessfully! The phone keeps ringing and ringing, but no one EVER picks it up! It will definitely be a challenge booking my CFAT, or get any other questions answered for that matter. 

Thanks again.


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