# National" Borders- Trouble at The Cornwall Crossing



## Edward Campbell

This is another new thread, again because I did not find one that was a close fit; but, as always, Mods may wish to merge it with something else.

As a policy matter my “answer” to this threat (reproduced here under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s _Ottawa Citizen_) is: “Good for you! Government of Canada: close the _border_ with the Akwesasne Mohawks.”



> Arm guards and we'll shut border: Mohawk Warriors
> 
> *Group vows to keep guards gunless at Akwesasne*
> 
> 
> BY DAVID GONCZOL, THE OTTAWA CITIZEN
> 
> MAY 30, 2009
> 
> AKWESASNE, ONT. — Mohawk Warriors from the Akwesasne Mohawk reserve near Cornwall say they will storm a Canada Border Services Agency post on Monday and shut down the international border crossing, unless their political leaders receive a commitment from the government not to arm border guards at the post, which stands on reserve territory.
> 
> The CBSA started arming guards in 2007, and officers at the Akwesasne reserve, which straddles the Ontario-Quebec-New York state boundary, are scheduled to begin carrying 9 mm guns on Monday.
> 
> The Mohawks say they don’t want armed guards at the post because it would violate their sovereignty and increase the likelihood of violent confrontations.
> 
> “We are going to clear them (border guards) out,” said Thomas Stacy, a middle-aged former professional wrestler who stood across from the border post with a small group of young men carrying large Mohawk Warrior flags.
> 
> They kept a low profile Saturday during a peaceful rally organized by the Akwesasne Mohawk Council. About 100 people gathered at the post to demand that the CBSA not arm the guards and that their demand be sent to officials in Ottawa.
> 
> “Tomorrow night at 12 o’clock (midnight) we have to have an answer,” Stacy said.
> 
> “If that answer don’t come, that’s it. Monday is going to be the worst. That’s the crackdown. It’s going to be over. It’s going to be done. No more signing papers, no more negotiations — nothing.”
> 
> Stacy said the reserve’s political leaders have been in fruitless discussions with the CBSA and federal officials.
> 
> “We are not getting anywhere with the government. The government is going to come over here and take over everything,” he said.
> 
> The Mohawk Warriors are a long-standing group that is separate from hereditary chiefs or more modern elected chiefs and councils. Stacy said they have made it clear to the council and to the Akwesasne police that if the government does not back away from its plan, then the Warriors will act.
> 
> “What we are waiting for is an answer from Ottawa. We don’t get that answer … action has got to be taken by the people,” he said.
> 
> Brendan White, a spokesman for the First Nation, said the elected leadership is working toward a negotiated settlement and will “continue to make itself available to have that dialogue with the federal government.”
> 
> “We remain hopeful that the federal officials will see the need to address our concerns,” White said. “I guess we are in a wait-and-see mode right now. The community is frustrated.”
> 
> After Monday, he said, it was “in the hands of the community.”
> 
> Howard Thompson, chief of the Mohawk Nation Council of Chiefs, representing all Mohawks in Canada, said he was worried about “someone instigating something that would get out of hand.”
> 
> “We don’t want to have to come and pick up the pieces later,” he said. “We would rather do it peacefully and negotiate something, rather than doing some kind of physical demonstration.”
> 
> “June 1st isn’t the end; it’s the beginning for us to continue to working toward not having armed customs officers here.”
> 
> Thompson said he had a three-minute meeting in a corridor on Parliament Hill on Monday with Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan, hoping the minister would reverse the initiative.
> 
> He said the minister made it clear to him that it was an “operational decision” and that Stephen Rigby, the president of the CBSA, has the authority to stop the arming of the guards.
> 
> Thompson also met Rigby on Thursday but said it is clear the arming of the guards will proceed as planned.
> 
> Chief Larry King also met Thursday with Rigby, who rejected compromises offered by the council of chiefs. The chiefs asked that the policy be delayed for a year or until the end of the CBSA’s arming process in 2016.
> 
> “Our priority remains the safety and security of our officers and the public,” said CBSA’s Rick Comerford, in a written statement Saturday.
> 
> “As we do every day, we continuously monitor our operation to maintain our commitment to safety and security and to ensure the flow of traffic. Our managers will take appropriate action when necessary — such as additional staff.”
> 
> The Akwesasne Mohawks have held a number of rallies opposing the arming throughout the month of May. There is a large tent and a campfire set up by the protesters that will be constantly occupied until at least Monday.
> 
> The council has been told that 18 border guards from the Awkesasne post are receiving weapons training and some of them will be ready to carry them.
> 
> The Akwesasne leadership has long warned against the move to guns in letters to federal politicians.
> 
> “We seriously consider your government’s actions in arming the (CBSA) guards as a direct assault on our sovereignty, which resonates into an act of war against our people,” wrote Grand Chief Tim Thompson in a 2008 letter to Stockwell Day, public safety minister at the time and now minister for international trade.
> 
> _With files from Canwest news service_
> 
> © Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen




We have a very broad but not at all deep understanding that aboriginal people have certain special “rights” in our society – some granted by treaty, others “read into” our Constitution to recognize the “special status” of aboriginals versus the “settlers.” It is probably time to test the extent to which aboriginals are a “sovereign” people.

We have, _de facto_, three borders now: one between “Canada” and the Akwesasne Mohawks; another one between the Akwesasne Mohawks and the Mohawks of St. Regis (in the USA); and a third between St. Regis and the USA, proper.

The presence of aboriginal “nations” that straddle international boundaries poses a special problem that will have to be settled, eventually, in courts in both Canada and the USA. It is probably a good enough time to provoke the issue.

The “worst” that can happen is that the Akwesasne Mohawks (try to) join the USA.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

*The Mohawks say they don’t want armed guards at the post because it would violate their sovereignty and increase the likelihood of violent confrontations.*

Nice bit of inflammatory journalism, I'm just curious if I gather a hundred Guelphites together for a march, would they call us "The Whites"?

How about some truth in reporting like, "The hundred or so ex-convicts who run the criminal activity......"?


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## SeaKingTacco

The Mohawks don't want armed border guards on the reserve?  Not a problem.  Just move the Customs and immigration posts to the edge of the reserve.   Inspect and search everything that comes off of the reserve...


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## Fishbone Jones

They don't want CBSA armed because it will start to even the odds. They want to be the only armed presence in the area. Heaven forbid that our guards would have the means to defend themselves if confronted with an armed Mohawk while he's smuggling his drugs, cigarettes or guns into Canada.

I agree with Edward. Time to put this to a full test and end this crap, once and for all, either way. I also agree with SKT, set up a secondary inspection and thoroughly search everything that comes through it.


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## Jammer

Agreed.
Cut off all the tax free bennies and subsidized housing.
It's an INTERNATIONAL border and I don't suspect that they are too happy about the new CBSA and DHS agreement to share resources and equipment.


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## Edward Campbell

Let’s all be a bit careful.

Some of the “benefits” aboriginals enjoy are theirs by treaty right; the same sort of “right” we have to recognized borders with the USA.

Some other benefits are what I would call *punitive*. They were “awarded” by judges who decided, with very good reason, that we – mainstream Canada – brought “dishonour” to the crown (that’s the expression they use) because we lied and cheated in our dealing with aboriginals, even as we fully understood that’s what we were doing.

I agree that there need to be tight, tough “border controls” between Akwesasne and “Canada.” I do not think we should dispute the “right” of aboriginals to have duty free cigarettes on their “sovereign” land; nor should we dispute their “right” to sell those cigarettes – on which taxes and duties have not been paid - on their own land. What we should  not tolerate is anyone possessing, for any reason, those cigarettes, the ones on which the taxes and duties have not been paid, anywhere on “Canadian” territory. Thus, we need a new “border” at which every person, every vehicle and every boat attempting to enter Canada is stopped and searched and where all untaxed items are either confiscated or properly taxed.

There’s nothing terribly wrong with Mohawks administering Mohawk law on Mohawk land; there is, equally, nothing at all wrong with Canada administering Canadian law on Canadian land; what’s sauce for the goose, and all that.

Aboriginals have some rights and privileges; Canadians have some, too. It’s time to clarify both rights and duties.


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## X-mo-1979

Wow .
This sets the stage for many other minority groups,if they get their way.Canada has taken was too passive of a response to things of this nature.

I wonder what would happen if a few drug runners in Cape Breton didn't want the RCMP on the island?

Time for the Newfoundland Republic,western alliance to stand up.Split up the country like then old USSR.If we are going to grant rights and privileges to minority in one place lets do so across the country.


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## Jammer

i can't wait for Danny Williams to get hold of that one... ;D
An option that could be considered would be to eliminate that particular border crossing. i'll bet there'll be a pretty quick resolution if that option was tabled to the Mohawks.


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## The Bread Guy

For orientation purposes, a map:
http://quikmaps.com/show/105226


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## SeaKingTacco

> I agree that there need to be tight, tough “border controls” between Akwesasne and “Canada.” I do not think we should dispute the “right” of aboriginals to have duty free cigarettes on their “sovereign” land; nor should we dispute their “right” to sell those cigarettes – on which taxes and duties have not been paid - on their own land. What we should  not tolerate is anyone possessing, for any reason, those cigarettes, the ones on which the taxes and duties have not been paid, anywhere on “Canadian” territory. Thus, we need a new “border” at which every person, every vehicle and every boat attempting to enter Canada is stopped and searched and where all untaxed items are either confiscated or properly taxed.



Edward,

I am with you.  What happens on the reserve, happens.  It is sovereign Mohawk territory, if that is what they want.  However, a "free trade agreement" with Canada will take some negotiation...


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## Old Sweat

The issue of tax evasion on articles purchased in sovereign Mohawk territory is moot. To my mind, the issue is not Joe Lunchbox buying a bag of 200 smokes, although collecting the taxes should be relatively simple. A major challenge is the smuggling of truck and van loads of illegal smokes into Canada for distribution via the black market away from the border. Many of these loads do not come through the border crossing, but are transported by power boat across the St Lawrence. If you recall, the situation circa 1993 was so serious that it was estimated up to a third of the cigarettes consumed in Canada were not taxed. (At that time the government put a huge crimp in that market by slashing the taxes on cigarettes.) There are other articles smuggled as well, both ways, and successive Canadian govenments have not mounted a rigorous enforcement campaign to avoid a confrontation over the issue.


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## X-mo-1979

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> The issue of tax evasion on articles purchased in sovereign Mohawk territory is moot. To my mind, the issue is not Joe Lunchbox buying a bag of 200 smokes, although collecting the taxes should be relatively simple. A major challenge is the smuggling of truck and van loads of illegal smokes into Canada for distribution via the black market away from the border. Many of these loads do not come through the border crossing, but are transported by power boat across the St Lawrence. If you recall, the situation circa 1993 was so serious that it was estimated up to a third of the cigarettes consumed in Canada were not taxed. (At that time the government put a huge crimp in that market by slashing the taxes on cigarettes.) There are other articles smuggled as well, both ways, and successive Canadian govenments have not mounted a rigorous enforcement campaign to avoid a confrontation over the issue.



However today putting cigarettes at 10 bucks a pack,it's forcing the Canadian public to quit (pro) or deal with people we normally wouldn't (i.e criminals).If they really want to mess with the reserve,make Marijuana legal and tax it,and make cigarettes purchased from the government cheap again.


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## Edward Campbell

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> ... and successive Canadian govenments have not mounted a rigorous enforcement campaign to avoid a confrontation over the issue.




And therein lies *our* biggest problem: we refuse to face up to our responsibilities - beginning with our responsibility to elect grown-ups to Parliament.

When we refuse to respect the law we erode the most important pillars of our society. When our society collapses, with a gentle push from some barbarians, we will know where to look for those to blame: in the mirror.


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## zipperhead_cop

More BS and pandering to our domestic insurgents.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/090601/canada/canada_akwesasne_guards_border_guns001
*Border guards leave eastern Ontario post  * 

Mon Jun 1, 4:31 AM

OTTAWA (CBC) - Canadian border guards abandoned their posts early Monday at a U.S. border crossing at Cornwall, Ont., after talks broke down with Mohawk officials over the arming of border guards.

Canadian Border Services Agency workers left their posts on Cornwall Island, citing safety concerns.

Mohawk leaders from the Akwesasne Mohawk territory, which straddles the borders of Quebec, Ontario and New York, say they don't want the guards to be armed because it would violate their sovereignty (WTF?!?   ???)  and increase the likelihood of violent confrontations.

Officers working at the crossing, which is in the middle of the Mohawk territory, were to start carrying 9-mm handguns on Monday.

Reports say roughly 400 Mohawks camped out near the building cheered when news of the departure became known.

On Saturday, about 200 Akwesasne Mohawks marched on the Canadian Border Offices in Cornwall Island shouting "No guns." The demonstration briefly held up border traffic but the bridges were not closed.

Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan's office said the issue is out of its hands.

The Canadian Border Services Agency began arming its guards in 2007.

Perhaps the criminals that like taking pot shots at the Cornwall guys don't want to get shot back at.  How horrible for them  :


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## X-mo-1979

I would love to work CBSA.And have zero problems with armed conflict resolution.If these guys are walking off can I get one of their jobs?


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## zipperhead_cop

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I would love to work CBSA.And have zero problems with armed conflict resolution.If these guys are walking off can I get one of their jobs?



For someone who purports to want to work there, you are pretty insensitive to what they have to deal with.  Nice "me for me" attitude you have there, Individual. 
They "walk" in a work refusal due to unsafe working conditions.  Typically they get information that there is an armed/dangerous vehicle coming through and since they are not capable of defending themselves, they walk.  They aren't quitting their jobs.  
Without armed guards, the policy for armed persons coming across is to let the vehicle go and notify local authorities.  When the local authorities _are_ the Mohawks, how much enforcement do you think is going to happen?  Once the guards are armed and able to deal with them on a level playing field, you will see just how much drugs/weapons that our precious indigenous persons are infecting our country with.  As it is now, it's just a free for all run by organized crime.


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## X-mo-1979

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> They "walk" in a work refusal due to unsafe working conditions.  Typically they get information that there is an armed/dangerous vehicle coming through and since they are not capable of defending themselves, they walk.  They aren't quitting their jobs.
> Without armed guards, the policy for armed persons coming across is to let the vehicle go and notify local authorities.  When the local authorities _are_ the Mohawks, how much enforcement do you think is going to happen?  Once the guards are armed and able to deal with them on a level playing field, you will see just how much drugs/weapons that our precious indigenous persons are infecting our country with.  As it is now, it's just a free for all run by organized crime.



I won't get into the personal attack.You know me how much?Thought so.

Guess it's time for the government to allow CBSA to do what they need at the border instead of hiding to call in the police,who may end up missing them anyway.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

He doesn't need to know you to know that what you proposed would make you what we call a "scab".

It doesn't get much lower than that......


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## Michael OLeary

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> However today putting cigarettes at 10 bucks a pack,it's forcing the Canadian public to quit (pro) or deal with people we normally wouldn't (i.e criminals).If they really want to mess with the reserve,make Marijuana legal and tax it,and make cigarettes purchased from the government cheap again.



Forcing?

How about choosing to deal with criminals?

And suggesting the transfer of the taxation and legal problems to something you wouldn't use so you can have cheaper cigarettes is not exactly a "solution".


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## chris_log

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> He doesn't need to know you to know that what you proposed would make you what we call a "scab".
> 
> It doesn't get much lower than that......



You mean someone who wants to earn their wages? CF members don't have the option to walk off the job when the going gets rough, neither should they (armed or unarmed, they chose the job). I hate the term scab, I could give the names I have for 'strikers'...but they aren't good for polite company. There's lots of talk among union employees about what they're entitled to...but often little about what their responsibilities are. Striking is the organised and legitimized form of a child's temper tantrum. I kind of expected better from you Bruce...

But to the topic at hand, it raises some interesting questions as to the extent of sovereignty we are willing to afford to the Natives and what they are willing to accept responsibility-wise. If they want the type of sovereignty, immunity from 'our' laws and such then they should also accept the responsibilities that go along with said freedom. But the 'all and everything we want' attitude really annoys me. I don't care what happened 100+ years ago...that was then, this is now. 

Native reserves are interesting places and one doesn't need to see a sign to know they're in one, and the lawlessness is but one sign (regrettebly, it is the norm more so then the exception on reserves). I don't feel safe driving through them, I don't stop until I'm out and I refuse to have anything to do with anything associated with them.


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## Fishbone Jones

Everyone's a tough guy on the internet :

No one quit. No one ran away. No one is hiding. Let's not talk about _'they chose the job_' unless you know the exact terms of reference for said particular job. Like ZC said, they took the *mandated* action when confronted with unsafe working conditions.

No different than working with chemicals. If you don't have the proper PPE, you clear the area until it's safe to return. It has nothing to do with intestinal fortitude and everything to do with common sense and the Canada Labour Code.

And I chose to quit smoking rather than pay the taxes or criminals. No one forced me. No one can force you to do anything, you always have a choice.


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## J.J

> You mean someone who wants to earn their wages? CF members don't have the option to walk off the job when the going gets rough, neither should they (armed or unarmed, they chose the job). I hate the term scab, I could give the names I have for 'strikers'...but they aren't good for polite company. There's lots of talk among union employees about what they're entitled to...but often little about what their responsibilities are. Striking is the organised and legitimized form of a child's temper tantrum. I kind of expected better from you Bruce...


Actually Piper exactly what I/we expected from you.... :

The CBSA officer's were ordered off by management at 23:45 hrs, because the "peace loving" Mohawks said they would raid the port and force an armed confrontation. So the managers did the nest thing they could do and what is expected of them.


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## 1feral1

Holy crap!

For those that don't know me, I was born in Saskatoon and lived in Canada for the first 35 years of my life. So, I'll say my 2 cents worth on this subject, seeing things from outside the border.

I think its absolutly pathetic how a group of thugs can dictate through direct intimidation to a soverign nation (Canada), how to run it's international borders.

What a joke! They've won!

Abandon posts? The last time I observed this, I was in Baghdad, it was 2007, as New Iraqi Army were leaving their posts because it was dark and cold, letting insurgents run rampant unopposed to lay IEDs and prepare ambushes.

What message/example is Canada sending internationally?

Time to wake up Canada!

Shakes head in disbelief,

OWDU


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## Edward Campbell

Minister Van Loan's position (CBSA people in the Cornwall area *will* be armed) is good and it can be sustained through one simple act: move the border post off Cornwall Island to Cornwall, proper. It would be a tight squeeze to get it next to what looks like a water/sewage treatment plant - but not impossible, I hope. It might be done in weeks, maybe months.

The end effect will be about the same for most Canadians; people living on Cornwall island will be inconvenienced every time they need to come to the mainland to visit the doctor, play hockey, go to a movie, buy groceries _etc, etc, etc ad infinitum_. The people on Cornwall island might - probably will - want to set up their own border post. That will inconvenience all people travelling between Canada and the USA. If the inconvenience is minor then here will be no great reduction in traffic. If the inconvenience and/or cost is anything above minor then traffic will diminish until an acceptable equilibrium is established.

(The people on Cornwall island may want to set up a duty free shop. No problem because, with the aid of good, tower mounted, high resolution cameras, CBSA can see every person coming out of the store and every car coming out of the duty free shop's lot and can stop those people and collect Canadian taxes and duties.)

I regard this as a win/win. The Akwesasne Mohawks achieve greater sovereignty; Canada defuses a potentially inflammatory situation; the border crossing remains open.


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## zipperhead_cop

But what you propose effectively slides Canadas national border back a notch and allows a rogue state to be created.  I won't get into a pedantic slippery slope argument since I don't think this will ever happen.
And I have not heard a good reason for placating them.  Why do _ANYTHING_ to avoid a confrontation with armed insurgents?  Take the fight to them.  These ass hats are no better than Kim Jong Il threatening the world.  
Did they get jerked over years ago?  Certainly.  Does that mean they are entitled to a free ticket to be useless skin bags and criminals as they so choose?  Hell no. 
I have met a great many natives who are hard working, decent people who just want to raise a family and have a decent life.  Without exception, they have all indicated that the reservation system and all the flaws that come with it do nothing to help natives (although they are pretty okay with the no-tax thing   I would be too!) 
This countries policy towards natives is a pathetic joke.  And in the best case scenario, it just enables thousands of people to not be accountable for their actions and sets the stage for countless generations of noncontributing burdens and misery for the kids they produce.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Piper said:
			
		

> You mean someone who wants to earn their wages? CF members don't have the option to walk off the job when the going gets rough, neither should they (armed or unarmed, they chose the job). I hate the term scab, I could give the names I have for 'strikers'...but they aren't good for polite company. There's lots of talk among union employees about what they're entitled to...but often little about what their responsibilities are. Striking is the organised and legitimized form of a child's temper tantrum. I kind of expected better from you Bruce...



Piper, keep taking that raise you get every year because OTHERS are willing to go without pay if negotiations for that raise do not go well.........I guess ya prefer not to think about that.

I hope I'm still alive 25 years from now when you actually grow up,and maybe get a real job with an employer who only puts in safety measures when ordered to, and then you'll need to delete your profile for the 9th time because you don't want others reading how stupid you sounded back then....................hmm, 1/3 of the way there already.

Keep chuggin.....


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## Old Sweat

I agree with ZC's position on this. Cornwall Island is Canadian territory and to move the post is to surrender it to a third party. This also would recognize the legitimacy of their claim, which would set a precedent that could have the potential to do real harm.

This morning the mayor of Cornwall was interviewed on CFRA Ottawa. He confirmed that Cornwall council had passed a resolution supporting the Mohawk position and that it was hoped the CBSA would agree not to arm its officers at the customs post. It should be noted that whatever happens as far as Cornwall is concerned, the problem will not go away nor can the city be picked up and moved. The closure of the crossing is having a negative economic and social effect both on the reserve and on the city itself.

In the big picture, stoppage of traffic at Cornwall will be more in the nature of an irritant than a serious impediment to cross-border movement. Given that Highway 416 leads directly to the bridge at Prescott, traffic to and from the national capital area can be routed over it. At the same time the crossings south of Montreal are not too far out of a direct route, especially as the Cornwall crossing is at least an hour's drive from the interstate system.


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## The Bread Guy

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> In the big picture, stoppage of traffic at Cornwall will be more in the nature of an irritant than a serious impediment to cross-border movement. Given that Highway 416 leads directly to the bridge at Prescott, traffic to and from the national capital area can be routed over it. At the same time the crossings south of Montreal are not too far out of a direct route, especially as the Cornwall crossing is at least an hour's drive from the interstate system.



CBSA's traffic diversion notice
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/eo-ou/109151T112447-eng.html 

Map of alternate crossing sites
http://www.quikmaps.com/show/105330


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## The Bread Guy

WR said:
			
		

> The CBSA officer's were ordered off by management at 23:45 hrs, because the "peace loving" Mohawks said they would raid the port and force an armed confrontation. So the managers did the nest thing they could do and what is expected of them.



What CBSA said:
"As a result of a risk to the health and safety of the travelling public and Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) employees, *the CBSA closed the Cornwall (Ontario) Port of Entry Office* located on Cornwall Island as of 11:45 p.m. on May 31...."


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Makes Piper's rant even sound stupider doesn't it?

I guess he would have "earned his wages" and stayed......................


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## Haggis

There's an on line petition supporting the "No Guns for CBSA At Akwesasne" stand at: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NoGunsForCBSA/index.html

Most of the comments are similarly worded regarding concerns for safety, Mohawk sovereignty, etc.

.... and then, from signatory number 28, there's this one:

"FOR ALL YOU INFERIOR WHITE PEOPLE TRYING TO RAIN ON OUR PARADE, SHUT YOUR STUPID FUKIN MOUTHS BEFORE I PUT A BULLET IN EVERYONE OF THEM....TIM, WHITE BROAD, ...... IF THEY WONNA ARM UP AND START A FUKIN WAR LETS DO IT. WE GOT GUNS TOO"

If the MCA wants to be taken seriously by the Federal government and CBSA they have to absoultely and completely distance themselves from the likes of this "speaker" and his Warrior Society brethren.


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## Fishbone Jones

The petition is a sham. It's being edited. Any comments for Canadian law, government and CBSA are being deleted. Less than 400 votes total for such an 'inflammatory' issue :? I picture one beat up 486 computer in a community centre, with a bunch of, ahem, people hammering away on the coffee and cig stained keyboard. 

I also find it ironic that one of the advertisement banners at the top is for Front Site Firearms Training Center ;D


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## 2 Cdo

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Piper, keep taking that raise you get every year because OTHERS are willing to go without pay if negotiations for that raise do not go well.........I guess ya prefer not to think about that.
> 
> I hope I'm still alive 25 years from now when you actually grow up,and maybe get a real job with an employer who only puts in safety measures when ordered to, and then you'll need to delete your profile for the 9th time because you don't want others reading how stupid you sounded back then....................hmm, 1/3 of the way there already.
> 
> Keep chuggin.....



Spoken like a true union flunky. Personal insults and a sob story from directing staff no less.


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## Jammer

DS,
Before this get out of control and violates the ROE.
I might suggest a lock or VW for some members.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Spoken like a true union flunky. Personal insults and a sob story from directing staff no less.



Me, a Union flunky??  How many of my compatriots would laugh at that comment.

Here is an email I sent to the members of OPSEU when our leaders put it out that they wanted OPSEU members to support the "coalition".


*All,
Today, I received my email that OPSEU Communications forwarded from the Labour Council.

I realize that OPSEU politics differ greatly from my own and I live with that as I know that if it meant enough to me I would get involved and I don't.
This is because the Union means more to me than petty politics..............however let it be said here and now that if OPSEU puts it's public support behind any coalition that includes the Bloq Quebecois than I will do anything I can [television, call in shows, etc] to bring disgrace to the Corporate OPSEU.

I hardly think I am the only one that thinks this way and do we really need to divide ourselves at this point in very hard negotiations?

I implore all to think long and hard about putting ourselves in a situation that will severly divide us and possibly, backfire into our own leader's faces.

Thank you for your time,
Bruce Monkhouse
VP Local 229*


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Forgot the nice title I gave it also...."OPSEU SUPPORTING TRAITORS?".


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## zipperhead_cop

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> This morning the mayor of Cornwall was interviewed on CFRA Ottawa. He confirmed that Cornwall council had passed a resolution supporting the Mohawk position and that it was hoped the CBSA would agree not to arm its officers at the customs post. It should be noted that whatever happens as far as Cornwall is concerned, the problem will not go away nor can the city be picked up and moved. The closure of the crossing is having a negative economic and social effect both on the reserve and on the city itself.



Ah, but in for a penny, in for a pound.  Cornwall city council has sided with traitors, thugs and gun runners.  That city should starve and wither until the people take action and eliminate the fools that they misguidedly elected.  And if the people support their elected officials, then that city is a write-off.  

I think a nice 33 CBG engineer task would be to do a detonation of the Cornwall bridge after the alternate route is sufficiently brought up to speed.  Then the "peaceful warriors" can have their little private paradise just like they want.  Win/win.


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## Fishbone Jones

Now that Cornwall council has caved, I wonder how long it will be before the domestic terrorists claim that town too, a la Caledonia.


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## zipperhead_cop

And then shortly after that, Dolton buys it and gives it to them.


----------



## IrishCanuck

Thanks to most for your support of CBSA.

It was a decision made at the top, noone "abandoned" their post... by the sounds of some people on here, I wonder how they survive in / survived the military running around disobeying orders from brass, and staying in a fight when they are overwhelmed in firepower, manpower, and tactically hopeless... AND there is an alternative that allows for personnel to come out safe, security is not compromised, and you can regroup and come back with the proper resources.


----------



## X-mo-1979

I support CBSA 100%.However I don't support their policy that governs them.This is the front lines of our country,the men and women at the border should be given the powers to deal with situations that arise.

Getting a threat shouldn't shut down part of our border period IMHO.It seems the people making those decisions are most likely the same people who fought against having weapons in the first place.

If CBSA was forced to walk off by higher,why not send in the military to guard it.
Send a lav and a section down there,VCP.Meet the threats with force.Or the police.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

IrishCanuck said:
			
		

> Thanks to most for your support of CBSA.
> 
> It was a decision made at the top, noone "abandoned" their post... by the sounds of some people on here, I wonder how they survive in / survived the military running around disobeying orders from brass, and staying in a fight when they are overwhelmed in firepower, manpower, and tactically hopeless... AND there is an alternative that allows for personnel to come out safe, security is not compromised, and you can regroup and come back with the proper resources.



Thanks IC. Some know how the real world works. Unfortunately, others are still looking out of their insular balloon through rose coloured glasses. Karma is a bitch, especially when she comes out of nowhere someday and smacks you so hard you wonder what your doing there.


----------



## Haggis

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> If CBSA was forced to walk off by higher,why not send in the military to guard it.



Because it's not within our mandate to step in until all other police/law enforecment options have been exhausted. We're nowhere near that yet.

And have you ever been to Akwesasne or Cornwall island? What you propose, "send a LAV and a section down there", would be placing those soldiers at far more risk than the one faced, and dealt with, by CBSA.

Yes, I'm pissed that Cornwall city council has chosen to support the MCA.  There is far more to this issue than what is being reported in the press.


----------



## Larkvall

If the Cornwall crossing is the only point of entry without armed guards would this not increase the amount of 'dodgy' traffic going through there? Does this not deflect the argument of having armed guards is more dangerous to the local community?


----------



## 2 Cdo

And something for those who support the CBSA being armed.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/yes_guns_cornwall_island/


----------



## Haggis

Larkvall said:
			
		

> If the Cornwall crossing is the only point of entry without armed guards would this not increase the amount of 'dodgy' traffic going through there? Does this not deflect the argument of having armed guards is more dangerous to the local community?



In the minds of the CBSA and government decision makers, it does.  In the eyes of those who oppose the arming of "federal agents' on "Indian territory", it makes no difference.

As stated earlier, Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service (AMPS) have an office adjacent to the port of entry.  But thier responsibility is not solely to provide armed protection to and for CBSA.  They are responsible for policieng the entire canadian portion of Akwesasne.  Would not the arming of CBSA agents alleviate some of the pressure on the AMPS, thereby allowing them to more effectively serve ALL the citizens of Akwesasne?

Kinda makes you wonder if those protesting this move are doing it for "personal gain" rather than for the good of the community as a whole.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Pretty simple fix:  Close the crossing permanently, then remove all access to the reserve from the Canadian side, and increase police patrolling of the river.  Seize and search any boats coming from the reserve.  Done.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Pretty simple fix:  Close the crossing permanently, then remove all access to the reserve from the Canadian side, and increase police patrolling of the river.  Seize and search any boats coming from the reserve.  Done.



Which is a great idea, but you still will be engaging them in fire fights, just on the water.  Somebody in Ottawa needs to decide that if a native is shooting or pointing a firearm at a LEO, they can be shot.  Currently, there isn't enough moral and political fortitude to do that.  
As for the AMPS, do not expect them to side against their own to protect federal employees.  They are not on the same page.


----------



## Haggis

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Which is a great idea, but you still will be engaging them in fire fights, just on the water.  Somebody in Ottawa needs to decide that if a native is shooting or pointing a firearm at a LEO, they can be shot.  Currently, there isn't enough moral and political fortitude to do that.



Like what happens to the rest of Canadians who try that?
  


			
				zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> As for the AMPS, do not expect them to side against their own to protect federal employees.



I know a few AMPS officers.  They have tough row to hoe in a pretty unique and rough neighbourhood.

Perceived motivations or biases aside, my argument wasn't that the AMPS wouldn't or couldn't protect federal employees.  My argument is that they shouldn't have to, at least no more than Windsor Police have to have a permanent presence at that port of entry solely to protect CBSA agents there.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Agreed.  That was one of the ideas behind arming them in the first place.  Like it or not, CBSA is a bona fide enforcement entity in Canada now.  They need the same support that the RCMP and regional/local police enjoy.


----------



## Haggis

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Like it or not, CBSA is a bona fide enforcement entity in Canada now.



And, like it or not, the Cornwall Island and Quebec portions Akwesasne are still part of Canada.

So, if the MCA or the Warrior Society want to claim Akwesasne as soveregin territory then they should also fund and provide the services that citizens of all North American "nations" have come to expect.   (Too bad the casinos are on the American side.)


----------



## Kat Stevens

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Which is a great idea, but you still will be engaging them in fire fights, just on the water.  Somebody in Ottawa needs to decide that if a native is shooting or pointing a firearm at a LEO, they can be shot.  Currently, there isn't enough moral and political fortitude to do that.
> As for the AMPS, do not expect them to side against their own to protect federal employees.  They are not on the same page.



Mine the river, steel hedgehogs, concrete dragons teeth, and a few thousand miles of bouncy wire on the beaches, then.


----------



## Old Sweat

We really can't mine the river as it is part of the Saint Lawrence Seaway. 

What we have here is a problem with a number of unsatisfactory options. The potential for innocent people to die is never very far away. Frankly some of the players are criminal thugs who expect the Canadian authorities to back down when confronted. As both the Feds and the Ontario government are scared spitless at the possibility of violence and the bad press that would come with it. (I am not trying to be overly dramatic when I add, that a confrontation here could lead to sympathetic risings on other reserves in Ontario the Montral area and perhaps across the country. If we keep that in mind, then the seeming lack of cojones on the part of Canadian officialdom is understandable. That still does not make it laudable, but what are the other options?

It seems to me that the unrest on the reserve dates back to at least 1991 when an outbreak of violence led to the deployment of 1 RCR (-) to Cornwall. I was in the J3 Plans shop with responsibility for the Canus Landop and other defence of North America issues. My American counterpart had a say what moment when I told him we were deploying armed troops on the border in the Cornwall area.


----------



## Haggis

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> It seems to me that the unrest on the reserve dates back to at least 1991 when an outbreak of violence led to the deployment of 1 RCR (-) to Cornwall.



April 1990, actually, a few months before Oka blew up.  This was a completely different issue.  The mission, named initally "Op FEATHER" was in response to a request by Indian and Northern Affairs and the Solicitor General brought on by "pro" and "anti" gambling factions having nightly gunbattles over control of the (then) illegal casinos on Akwesasne.  Several hundred Akwesasne residents were evacuated to Cornwall and surrounding communites.  Eventually, two persons were killed resulting in a deployment of over 500 RCMP, provincial and municipal police and CF personnel to Akwesasne, some of whom remained in place until well into 1991.


----------



## Old Sweat

You're correct. I had typed 1990 and then convinced myself it was 1991. I recalled the violence but couldn't remember the actual cause. It seems to me that there almost was a parallel government operating on the reserve in opposition to the band council.


----------



## Yrys

Living in Montréal, just IMHO from watching the news :



			
				Old Sweat said:
			
		

> there almost was a parallel government operating on the reserve in opposition to the band council.


----------



## The Bread Guy

For more on that....

"THE FORGOTTEN FRONT OF THE OKA CRISIS: OPERATION FEATHER/AKWESASNE,"
Timothy C. Winegard, University of Oxford, St. Antony’s College, Journal of Military and Strategic Studies, Fall and Winter 2008/9, Vol. 11, Issues 1 and 2 (.pdf)


> Abstract:  "The Oka Crisis is viewed by many as a definitive moment in Native-Canadian relations. However, the deployment of 4,500 personnel of the Canadian Forces (CF) to Kanesatake and Kahnawake during Operation SALON overshadowed the deployment of the CF to Akwesasne over three months earlier under Operation FEATHER/AKWESASNE. Using a variety of sources, the majority of which were secured through the Access to Information Act, and personal interviews, this article examines not only Operation FEATHER/AKWESASNE itself, but its direct relationship to the events at Kahnawake and Kanesatake during the Oka Crisis while highlighting the differences of Canada’s complex internal security legislations. The CF operation at Akwesasne, lasting seven months (1 May to 5 December 1990), has been wholly neglected by scholars in its own context but also in the historiography of the “Indian Summer” of 1990. It is the forgotten front of the Oka Crisis."


----------



## Haggis

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> "THE FORGOTTEN FRONT OF THE OKA CRISIS: OPERATION FEATHER/AKWESASNE,"
> Timothy C. Winegard, University of Oxford, St. Antony’s College, Journal of Military and Strategic Studies, Fall and Winter 2008/9, Vol. 11, Issues 1 and 2 (.pdf)



This paper, while generally accurate, has many gaps.  I referenced it in a service paper last fall.  One discrepancy is the actual dates of CF assistance.  I served in support of or on Akwesasne from 26 April to 17 Dec 90.

An interesting bit of trivia:  the first CF member to accompany the police on Akwesasne in 1990 was a Class A Reserve MP WO who just happened to have a civilian bus licence.  He couldn't be located for about five days and hadn't signed a pay sheet before deploying!


----------



## The Bread Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Minister Van Loan's position (CBSA people in the Cornwall area *will* be armed) is good and it can be sustained through one simple act: *move the border post off Cornwall Island to Cornwall, proper.* It would be a tight squeeze to get it next to what looks like a water/sewage treatment plant - but not impossible, I hope. It might be done in weeks, maybe months.



Pretty close in your prognostication, ERC, but in a different direction than the options reportedly being considered  ...


> The federal border agency is considering moving an eastern Ontario border crossing, shut down since Sunday, off a Mohawk reserve to diffuse a standoff over arming guards at the post, the president of the border guard union said Thursday.
> 
> Customs and Immigration Union national president Ron Moran said he met with Stephen Rigby, president of the Canada Border Services Agency, on Wednesday evening and pitched the union's long-standing desire to move the post off the Akwesasne Mohawk reserve, which straddles the Ontario-Quebec-New York State borders.
> 
> Moran said Rigby indicated the agency was seriously considering the option as a way to settle the current standoff over armed guards at the post and to solve long-standing issues between Akwesasne residents and border guards .... Moran said *he believes taking the border post off the island and setting it beside the U.S. border post, which is on the mainland and not on the reserve, may be the only solution at this point.* Moran said Canadian and U.S. border posts exist side by side in several locations across the country, including in Coutts, Alta., which is one of the biggest of its kind....


More from CanWest News here.


----------



## Old Sweat

Moving the border post forward to the area of the US post may solve one major problem, but I suspect it will only postpone a confrontation over other issues. The story that Tony has referenced notes that the Mohawks claim they are subject to undue harassment, searches and racial profiling. Whether or not they are, it is only a matter of time before the issues boils over again. Cripes, they may even decide to prevent CBSA officers from crossing Cornwall Island to travel to and from the proposed new border post.


----------



## Edward Campbell

I think we have to recognize a few factors:

•	Aboriginal Canadians have a large number of legitimate grievances against the “mainstream” society. Some grievances are related to treaty rights, others to simple racism;

•	The aboriginal Canadians are deeply divided amongst themselves. I detect two major groupings that I call the _pickpockets_ and the _separatists_. The _pickpockets_ want to grab harvest as much money – with the fewest strings attached – as they can while the legal sun shines,* while the _separatists_ want to use the prevailing legal climate to establish a new (second, third or fourth) “order of government” that will give aboriginal communities substantial “sovereignty” – whatever that may mean;

•	The aboriginals – of all stripes – have won the PR war. Most Canadians are _persuaded_ that (most? all?) aboriginal grievances are well founded and that redress, on the aboriginals’ terms, is overdue;

•	Most Canadians do not understand the potential dimensions of the “settlements” demanded by the many and varied aboriginal factions; and

•	Canadian governments, national, provincial and local are terrified – because they are easily terrorized – of aboriginal uprisings.

With regard to this specific dispute:

•	I think the Mohawks of Akwesasne are, essentially, separatists, and I recognize that my solution is a “win” for them; but

•	I also think that collocating the Canadian border post with the US one (on the US side)  is the worst of all possible solutions. It gives the Mohawks a “win” without cost. Putting a “tight” border post on the Canadian mainland – _isolating_ Cornwall Island – puts a price on sovereignty. There’s an old engineering maxim that says “you can’t manage what you can’t measure.” (That’s why trade unions , for example, have performed such a useful service: they give us a fair useful measure of the cost and value of labour.) Giving the Mohawks a taste of real “sovereignty” (Zap! You’re foreign!) with it’s “price” – international borders on both ends of the road - lets them “measure” the cost and value of sovereignty. 

By the way, unlike some others, I was quite (totally) detached from the 1990 events. My directorate had (near) zero involvement (I don’t think anyone in NDHQ was totally, 100% uninvolved, but we were pretty darn close to that (zero) level) so my views on the issue may be _skewed_.


----------
* Recognizing that the legal decisions may not go their way forever.


----------



## Old Sweat

Edward

You make some good points re sovereignty as it applies to those who live on Cornwall Island; however there is a considerable part of the Canadian portion of the reserve on the south bank of the St Lawrence in Quebec. Thus people can still evade CBSA examination by travelling by boat back and forth across the river.

Again, the solutions are varied, except none is really satisfactory.

I was deeply involved in the events of 1990, with perhaps more vivid memories of Oka rather than of the Cornwall area. The common perception of those of us inside the box so to speak was that the authorities had started well behind the curve and never caught up. The incidents were clearly being milked by the aboriginal establishment for every drop of publicity that could be gained via a sysmpathetic media. (And they did an excellent job of winning the media war.)


----------



## Haggis

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> You make some good points re sovereignty as it applies to those who live on Cornwall Island; however there is a considerable part of the Canadian portion of the reserve on the south bank of the St Lawrence in Quebec. Thus people can still evade CBSA examination by travelling by boat back and forth across the river.



My wife used to sell products from her home based business to customers on the Canadian portion(s) of Akwesasne.  It was easier, administratively and distance wise, for her to deliver her product to Snye and St. Regis Quebec by boat from our house in Ontario.  Fortunately, she never left Canadian waters to do this.


----------



## Jarnhamar

> The Mohawks say they don’t want armed guards at the post because it would violate their sovereignty and increase the likelihood of violent confrontations.





> Mohawk Warriors from the Akwesasne Mohawk reserve near Cornwall say they will *storm* a Canada Border Services Agency post on Monday and shut down the international border crossin



Other  actions that could avoid violent confrontations COULD very well include something as silly as oh I don't know, not storming a government building.



> We are going to clear them (border guards) out



Nothing threatening about that statement.
I remember a few years ago customs officers having to deal with Mohawk "warriors" bringing AK47s, UZI's, Shotguns etc.. and threatening the border guards with them. Some of the brave warriors ever took pop shots at the border crossing post.
You'd have to be crazy to consider having a gun in your face or getting hot at as a threatening gesture and want a handgun for self defense.  :


I'm for searching every vehicle that passes over that POS bridge.




> Giving the Mohawks a taste of real “sovereignty” (Zap! You’re foreign!) with it’s “price” – international borders on both ends of the road - lets them “measure” the cost and value of sovereignty.


I like this idea.


----------



## Edward Campbell

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s _Globe and Mail_, is an update on the situation:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/a-devastating-border-shutdown-a-chaotic-commute/article1203748/


> A 'devastating' border shutdown, a chaotic commute
> 
> *Natives, Cornwallites unite against ’Public Enemy No. 1’ Peter Van Loan*
> 
> Les Perreaux
> Cornwall, Ont. — From Thursday's Globe and Mail Last updated on Wednesday, Jul. 01, 2009
> 
> The waters around Cornwall Island are buzzing with motorboats, but these aren't pleasure cruises or the area's notorious smugglers.
> 
> The boats plying this part of the St. Lawrence River these days are mostly makeshift ferries hauling commuters across the U.S.-Canada border to the islands and mainland communities of the Akwesasne Reserve.
> 
> Long-standing animosity between Mohawks and border guards boiled over May 30, when natives protested the arming of customs agents. The guards fled their Cornwall Island post, saying they feared violence, and the federal government shut down the crossing. Cross-border travellers now must take long detours or navigate the St. Lawrence.
> 
> A month into the shutdown, there is little sign of tension between Mohawks and Cornwallites. If anything, they seem united against Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan.
> 
> Mohawks filed an application last week asking the Federal Court to order the minister to reopen the border. They have allies among their neighbours.
> 
> “I think the minister could make one call and we'd be moving again, but he won't do it and I don't know why,” said Dennis Fortier, owner of a Cornwall trucking company. “He's washed his hands of it.”
> 
> With the tourist season under way, hotel and restaurant owners are bracing for a slow summer. Mohawks have also faced difficulties, with rerouted funeral processions, postponed medical care and disrupted garbage pickup.
> 
> It's barely 3 p.m. on a work day and Mr. Fortier is sweeping the shop floor and joking with idle truckers. Business is drying up.
> 
> Fearing a supply disruption, a U.S. ethanol plant cut orders for crop byproducts from Cornwall. Ten loads a week has been reduced to one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Fortier's business is down about 20 per cent this month. He's losing about $5,000 a week in revenue. But he has sympathy for the Mohawk position.
> 
> “These are good people who are getting a bum rap in all of this,” Mr. Fortier said. “But the effect is quite devastating. People are getting afraid, thinking of contingency plans.”
> 
> A few kilometres south, in the middle of the St. Lawrence, Liz Sunday, a 62-year-old Mohawk grandmother, is making the complicated Akwesasne commute.
> 
> Instead of driving over the Seaway International Bridge, Ms. Sunday travels from her Quebec home into U.S. territory at the end of Ransom Road. Then she hops on a boat for a five-minute ride back into Canada. Without clearing customs, she hitches a ride to Cornwall General Hospital to visit her husband, Mitchell, who is recovering from a stroke.
> 
> Ms. Sunday embraces the voyage with grace. “I like this, you get to see people you haven't seen in a long time,” she said. “Maybe they should just leave [the border] closed.”
> 
> A dozen people on the boat say theirs is a principled fight.
> 
> “I'm sort of sick of this, but I don't see why the guards should have guns,” said Niiohontesha Jacobs, 23, U.S.-bound to pick up her two kids from preschool.
> 
> Mohawks warned 18 months ago they would not stand for Canadian customs agents carrying 9 mm pistols at the only border post on reserve land.
> 
> Akwesasne's outgoing Grand Chief Tim Thompson has called Mr. Van Loan a liar for Ottawa's claim substantive talks were held on the gun issue. A sign at the border post calls Mr. Van Loan Public Enemy No. 1.
> 
> Canadian Border Services Agency officials have met Mohawk leaders, but the minister has refused to intervene.
> 
> “He won't meet with the mayor of Cornwall, for God's sake,” said Chief Thompson, to be replaced as grand chief by Mike Mitchell next week. Mr. Mitchell says he “completely” shares Chief Thompson's view on the border.
> 
> Mr. Van Loan's office declined interview requests. A CBSA spokesperson said officials have met “more than 10 times” with Chief Thompson and a senior bureaucrat has met with Cornwall Mayor Bob Kilger.
> 
> At Cornwall City Hall, the tone is less hostile, but Mr. Kilger is looking past Mr. Van Loan and the CBSA for help.
> 
> “I'm starting to think someone like [Indian Affairs Minister] Chuck Strahl might be of more assistance. Someone a little more attuned to the history and sensitivities.”
> 
> The border post has triggered animosity for decades. Local traffic accounts for 70 per cent of the 4,000 annual crossings, most by Mohawks.
> 
> Mohawks say they have filed several human-rights complaints over guard mistreatment. One involves a young man subjected to a body-cavity search. Another is from a woman who says she was forced through an X-ray machine designed to scan trucks. The cases are unresolved.
> 
> “If you are a young Mohawk male driving a decent car, you will be searched,” Chief Thompson said. “There is systematic harassment and provocation. My feeling, bottom line, is they're racist. Not all of them, but there's always some in the bunch to ruin the apples.”
> 
> The behaviour of U.S. border guards is exemplary, he said.
> 
> But Canadian border guards have their own version of history after two decades of asking Ottawa to move the border post outside Mohawk territory.
> 
> The border post was the first to get bulletproof glass after it was shot up, according to Customs and Immigration Union president Ron Moran. Akwesasne's status as a Canada-U.S. smuggling hub adds to the tension. At the height of the tobacco-smuggling crackdown in the 1990s, guards were unnerved by red dots trained on them, apparently from laser-sighted weapons.
> 
> Mr. Moran says most of the 37 Cornwall Island agents have doctors' notes saying they cannot go back. And they definitely won't return without their weapons. “I think it's irreconcilable at this stage,” he said.
> 
> The union boss is one of the few defenders of Mr. Van Loan, saying events took an unpredictable turn. “If you had asked me on the Sunday before it happened, I wouldn't have thought they could close the office. Nobody paid enough attention to it to figure out it would get to this.”
> 
> The government is reviewing all options, but none of the potential answers is simple.
> 
> Cornwall merchants worry governments will build a new bridge outside the city to bypass the island.
> 
> The border guards and Mohawks suggest Canadian customs be moved to the U.S. side. Cornwall's mayor believes the move would face insurmountable legal hurdles.
> 
> If the crossing was placed on the Canadian mainland, Akwesasne's Cornwall Island would become Canadian territory in a customs no-man's land – hardly a winning formula for the fight against smuggling.



While one can understand the frustrations of people in Cornwall, the *only acceptable* solution remains: move the border crossing to Cornwall, proper – on undisputed _Canadian_ territory (as the US post is South of Akwesasne/St. Regis on undisputed US territory. How Canadian Mohawks cross that border is an administrative problem but, I suggest, it is the same way I enter Canada from a _foreign_ country.

Actions have consequences.


----------



## Gunnar

> Giving the Mohawks a taste of real “sovereignty” (Zap! You’re foreign!) with it’s “price” – international borders on both ends of the road - lets them “measure” the cost and value of sovereignty.
> 
> I like this idea.



I also like the added implications that only Canadian citizens can cash welfare or UI cheques.  And enter Canada freely, like to go to work.


----------



## Haggis

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> While one can understand the frustrations of people in Cornwall, the *only acceptable* solution remains: move the border crossing to Cornwall, proper – on undisputed _Canadian_ territory (as the US post is South of Akwesasne/St. Regis on undisputed US territory.



With the closure of Domtar's Cornwall mill, there is a huge tract of land available for a new all-Canadian Customs house in Cornwall near the base of the existing bridge.  Plans have been in the works to remove the (no longer required) high level north span.  Maybe now is the time.



			
				E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> How Canadian Mohawks cross that border is an administrative problem but, I suggest, it is the same way I enter Canada from a _foreign_ country.


  So, we remove the north span, replace it with a low level span terminating at a new high volume customs faclility on the old Domtar site and fence off the right of way between the north and south spans, effectively closing access to Cornwall Island via this route.

Then, build a second span from Cornwall to Cornwall Island only.  No direct access to the US side from Cornwall Island.  If Akwesasne residents want to pass from east to west Cornwall Island, the MCA can fund a tunnel under the fenced-off right of way.

As I stated a few posts back, like it or not, the Ontario and Quebec portions of Akwesasne are in Canada making all residents (and visitors) subject to Canadian law.  Don't like it?  Separate!



			
				E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Actions have consequences.



Apparently not if you're native (and politically astutue).


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Haggis said:
			
		

> Don't like it?  Separate!



I believe there are a great many who would like that.  And in Cornwalls case, that would be like creating our own little Kandahar Province in our own backyard.  No thanks.  
Having the Fed and the Province ignore their lawlessness and insurgent activities is bad enough.  Practically giving them a green light to do it from their own little slice of sovereign heaven?  Forget it.  (Unless the plan was to then invade and take it back by force since it was such a destabilizing force in the region  )


----------



## Haggis

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I believe there are a great many who would like that.  And in Cornwall's case, that would be like creating our own little Kandahar Province in our own backyard.  No thanks.



There are many, many more who want nothing at all to do with true sovereignty as it would rob them of thier "right" to Canadian services.  Those on Akwesasne who scream loudest are (as usual) a politically and media adept minority who revel in the limelight.


----------



## Old Sweat

The situation is not being helped, in my opinion, by the mayor of Cornwall, an ex-Liberal MP who is doing his bit to damage the CPC brand in the riding. The city is suffering because of the bridge closure and the administration is siding with the Mohawks. The mayor held a press conference recently along with that notable voice of understatement and restraint, Liberal MP Mark Holland. Now, maybe I am going too far to suggest that political games are being played here, but I wonder if we are aware of all the various fish being fried.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

I had this link sent to me for a good facts sheet about the Cornwall situation:

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Customs-And-Immigration-Union-Ciu-1014587.html
*Customs and Immigration Union/The Cornwall Situation: No Work Unarmed*

OTTAWA, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - July 8, 2009) - "It needs to be clear in everyone's mind that The Customs and Immigration Union (CIU) has taken a categorical position and will never allow its members to work at the Cornwall Border-Crossing un-armed again", said CIU National President Ron Moran from his Ottawa Office this morning. Moran also stated that "people need to further understand that the events which led up to the office closing are such that the Officers can never work at the current location again, armed or unarmed".

Following the events that took place in Cornwall on May 31st, 2009, the Union reiterates its full support to Peter Van Loan, Minister of Public Safety, to make no exception to the government's policy to arm all Front-Line Customs and Immigration Officers across Canada and to leave the Cornwall Border-Crossing closed until the situation is resolved.

The Customs & Immigration Union has for decades taken the position that the Cornwall Customs & Immigration facility should have never been set up on native land; the office's historical tensions have always stemmed from the fact that the office was located on the reserve. Given that the current native-provoked situation is clearly irreconcilable, now, more than ever, the office must be moved off the island.

From the beginning, many Canadian Medias have released inaccurate and often false information about the manner in which the events unfolded at Cornwall/Akwesasne. To clarify and to better inform the population about the background of this situation, CIU has put together the attached fact-list.

The Customs and Immigration Union (CIU) is a component of the Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC), which represents Canada's Front-Line Customs and Immigration Officers. CIU also represents Investigation, Intelligence and Trade Customs Officers, Immigration Inland Enforcement and Hearings Officers, as well as all support staff - all of whom work at the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA).


THE CORNWALL SITUATION: FACT-SHEET

Facts Relating to the Closing of the Cornwall Border-Crossing

- The Officers did not flee or even indicate they wanted to leave the port on their own initiative, in fact they had lots of food and were fully prepared to bunker-in had the Agency's decision been to stay.

- It was the Agency who took the decision to close the border-crossing at 11:20 that Sunday night (May 31st); and with the reality of moves undertaken by the Mohawk Community at that point, there was no other logical decision that could have been taken.

- It is fascinating how others such as Minister Van Loan are being blamed for the situation when in fact it is the following events which led to the office closing.

- The intimidation tactics had, at that point (May 31st), escalated from Mohawks (and supporters) gathering around the office and walking in to stare-down the Officers (this went on during the weeks leading up to May 31st), to four (4) bonfires burning around the CBSA compound and about 200 Mohawks gathered around the office, many dressed in camouflage with scarves covering their faces, with a bulldozer ready to go. By then the Warriors had made threats through the media that they would swarm the office and disarm the Officers themselves should the Agency proceed with the arming. Ten minutes prior to closing the office, at around 11:10pm on May 31st, Chief Thomson, Chief King, and the Chief of the Akwesasne Police had together come into the CBSA building to announce that they could, from this point, no longer ensure the safety of those who would choose to stay.

- Given the situation was now on a certain path of violence, the only rational decision that could have been made was taken; to shut down the office. Agency management informed the staff that they were to get ready to leave, pack their things and shut systems down as though they were never coming back.

- The Officers had to leave by the US-side, meaning they had to go home to their families via a friendly third country that night, having been subjected to what can only be described as a concerted act of terrorism.

- As the Office was shutting-down, yells of victory erupted from the gathered native crowd which was followed by a pow-wow style celebration that included rising the Mohawk flag up the CBSA flag pole. But then silence settled-in with the realization that this so called "victory" meant that they had effectively and indefinitely interrupted the service allowing the free-flow of traffic between Canada and the United-States.

Other Important Facts:

- Non-native law-enforcement officers have been working on reserves with the protection of a side-arm for decades; the side-arm training currently being used by the CBSA is the highest in the country (RCMP Standard).

- Arming Canada's Front-Line Customs & Immigration Officers is a decision that was responsibly taken subsequent to many independent risk-assessment and risk management experts as well as a Parliamentary Committee all concluding that arming was now a needed requirement. That the Conservative Government chose to do so prior to there being a body count at the border is something that should, if anything, be applauded.

Note: The most predominant of the abovementioned independent risk-assessment reports, "The Northgate Report", can be found at: http://www.ciu-sdi.ca/english/publications/reports/Other/Northgate.pdf

The Parliamentary Report being referred to is entitled "Borderline Insecure" and it can be found at: http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/defe-e/rep-e/repintjun05-e.htm

- It is completely untrue that the CBSA's side-arm initiative comes with additional search powers or authorities which would see the number of personal searches increase in any way shape or form. The initiative's only goal and extremely important purpose is that if an Officer was ever subjected to a level of violence that would justify defending himself or herself with their side-arm, for example if someone were to open fire on them, they would at least have a chance of making it back home to their families at the end of that particular shift.

- It is important to underscore the fact that the very high-end majority of Akwesasne residents get along extremely well with CBSA staff; these residents understanding that the Officers have a job they must perform and that they (the Officers) have nothing to do and don't even have influence over the issues which the community may have with governments such as land-claims or sovereignty matters. That being said, there are some members of this native community who make it their mission to be abusive with the Officers by being verbally aggressive and repeatedly reminding them that they are on Mohawk land. These individuals will usually not comply with the Officer's questioning (point-of-entry questioning is the same for every traveler entering Canada and is solely aimed at determining admissibility); these are of course the situations which tend to degenerate.

- It must also be said that the Cornwall border-crossing is by far the one which has seen the most community/Officer tensions over the decades. It has been the stage of the most dangerous situations which include it being shot at numerous times (it was in fact accordingly fitted with bullet-proof glass); it has been the scene of a hostage taking by Mohawks, it's officers have had red long-arm scope lasers pointed at them while working nights, and the list goes on.

- Believing that the residents of Akwesasne ever had a chance of winning this stand-off implies that Canadians would be prepared to accept that the country's smuggling epicentre (my emphasis)  would have the only un-armed law-enforcement Officers in the country working there as a result of an appeal from that community.

- While the closing of the Cornwall border-crossing is currently generating most of the attention, it's important not to lose sight of what Cornwall is usually and notoriously known for: the smuggling. All intelligence reports of the recent years conclude with the same caution which is that the majority of smuggling corridors which are currently being used for people, gun, drug, and tobacco smuggling, could also easily accommodate smuggling requests from terrorist groups. In fact, given scruple levels tend to be non-existent amidst those who assume these types of organized-crime operations, such requests would usually be accommodated without any form of hesitation or question.

- Akwesasne's Cornwall border-crossing used to handle an average of between 3000 and 4000 travelers a day with the majority (about 70%) being residents of the reserve itself; the crossing also used to handle an average of between 200 and 300 trucks per day.


----------



## TCBF

- My solution: Give all of the Canadian part of the Reserve to the USA.  Move their and our border crossings to the Reserve/Ont/Que borders.  Done.


----------



## Larkvall

TCBF said:
			
		

> - My solution: Give all of the Canadian part of the Reserve to the USA.  Move their and our border crossings to the Reserve/Ont/Que borders.  Done.



Well, it would be one option. I suggest they leave the crossing closed and after a suitable cooling off period (about 10 years) they can sit down and maybe work something out. Apparently the mayor of Cornwall is opposed to having the border crossing in his city. 

Just keep it closed.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Bob Kilger, the mayor of Cornwall, is a petty elected official with no stature to tell the Fedreal gov't what they can and cannot do with the border. He's part of the problem anyway, going around and enabling the Mohawk warriors by taking their side. He's a professional politician and really not worth listening to. Non starter.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

TCBF said:
			
		

> - My solution: Give all of the Canadian part of the Reserve to the USA.  Move their and our border crossings to the Reserve/Ont/Que borders.  Done.



You think the USA wants to inherit that Gong Show?  That is like suggesting that Egypt just take over Palestine.  They sure as hell don't want them.  
I like the general ideal of putting our backs to them though.


----------



## Larkvall

recceguy said:
			
		

> Bob Kilger, the mayor of Cornwall, is a petty elected official with no stature to tell the Fedreal gov't what they can and cannot do with the border. He's part of the problem anyway, going around and enabling the Mohawk warriors by taking their side. He's a professional politician and really not worth listening to. Non starter.



I wasn't suggesting we listen to him. It just sounds like he is in someone's back pocket.

Here is a video on the issue. Sounds like the natives are much happier with the crossing closed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQQNz0FKCKI


----------



## Larkvall

Looks like this fellow was hoping for trouble....  :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbAnfiwod7I


----------



## chris_log

Larkvall said:
			
		

> Looks like this fellow was hoping for trouble....  :
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbAnfiwod7I



Hearing those twits talking about their 'rights' makes me gag, when they are utterly incapable of taking any responsibility for themselves. Being near and seeing some of the effects of being near the Six Nations reserve in Ontario gave me an idea of what they're like...but being in where I am now has really opened my eyes. 

Makes me sick.


----------



## George Wallace

TCBF said:
			
		

> - My solution: Give all of the Canadian part of the Reserve to the USA.  Move their and our border crossings to the Reserve/Ont/Que borders.  Done.



Or as you have seen in the past, TCBF:  Erect the "Berlin Wall" along the corridor.    >

Fifteen foot walls on both sides, wire, and mine lanes Guard Dog runs.   >


----------



## TCBF

- Good fences make good neighbours.


----------



## The Bread Guy

*Statement by the Canada Border Services Agency on the situation in Cornwall *_(link to statement embedded in title)_
CBSA statement, 12 Jul 09


> Ottawa, Ontario, July 12, 2009 — The Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) today made the following statement concerning the situation at the port of entry in Cornwall:
> 
> "Since closing the port of entry on Cornwall Island on May 31, 2009, the CBSA has met several times with the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne and with other key stakeholders to discuss the feasibility of reopening the port of entry at Cornwall Island.
> 
> While discussions are ongoing, *the CBSA will open a temporary facility that will be stationed at the base of the north span of the bridge in the City of Cornwall, effective 6:00 a.m. on July 13, 2009.*
> 
> The CBSA also continues to explore all options concerning the long-term viability of the Cornwall port of entry.
> 
> At this time the existing CBSA facility on Cornwall Island remains closed. The CBSA will only reopen its facility when border services officers can work there safely with all of the tools they need to do their job, including their duty firearm. The CBSA is committed to continuing talks with the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne in order to resolve the situation.
> 
> The CBSA is dedicated to upholding its mandate of ensuring the secure and free flow of travel and trade across the border, and it will continue to work toward a permanent solution at Cornwall Island that fulfills all of its obligations."


----------



## 3rdroyal

This situation stems from the ongoing issue of "equality". In the past and in today's predicament, the government shies away from having to deal with the natives because any action taken against them WILL be construed as racist by some media and some natives. These natives have it in their heads that they are special, because they know that. The only long term solution in my own opinion, is to give them a cold slap of reality, and force the same law on them that the rest of us have to abide. This will send the message that if you want your voice heard, than do it like everyone else, without storming a border station or blockading our highways. We all live in ONE country now, its time to get over it and try to function as such. It seems simple to me, but I am pretty simple.


----------



## Larkvall

Temporary Cornwall border post opens


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/07/13/cornwall-border-post855.html?ref=rss


----------



## Larkvall

Another story from the Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/makeshift-border-restarts-traffic/article1215740/

Oh this is ripe.

In this story there is a quote from Akwesasne grand chief Mike Mitchell.

"But he said he is concerned for the safety of Cornwall Island residents because he's not aware of any additional measures to check those driving onto the island from the U.S., and fears that criminals from outside the community might now be able to enter."


----------



## chris_log

Larkvall said:
			
		

> In this story there is a quote from Akwesasne grand chief Mike Mitchell.
> 
> "But he said he is concerned for the safety of Cornwall Island residents because he's not aware of any additional measures to check those driving onto the island from the U.S., and fears that criminals from outside the community might now be able to enter."



Whats that Justin Timberlake song...Cry Me a River?

I quite honestly couldn't care less about the chief and the people living on that reserve. They support him, so they should suffer the same fate. Let them be overrun by criminals...although I doubt they'd notice the difference. 

These stories really make my blood boil...I feel bad for the border guards, the citizens of Cornwall (and indeed everyone else living close to a reserve) and all other Canadians who have to put up with the continuous antics of these called 'sovereign nations'.


----------



## Larkvall

Here is another story from the Trentonian

http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1652809

The article contains the following excerpt which some people might consider a threat.....



Mitchell said there were still details that needed to be worked out to ensure the safety of his people and the border guards before any kind of new checkpoint was created. Relations could still be tense, he said. 

“Traffic is still going to have to go through the island. If they don’t watch out, something can go wrong here,” Mitchell said.


----------



## ruckmarch

I was in that part of the world recently on our way to a relative's cottage that is on the Quebec side in Dundee. I have never seen so much cigarette billboards in my life along a stretch of road.

I also found out that the Mohawk folks did their banking on the Canadian side


----------



## X-mo-1979

If Canada agreed to a treaty not to carry weapons...well who is wrong?I have changed my mind on this topic.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

And what treaty would that be?  Something from 200 years ago that would preclude a British garrison on their land?  
Either scrap the treaty or close the border for good.  It is pedantic in the extreme to suggest that "just cuz" would be a good reason for CBSA members to not work adequately protected.


----------



## Larkvall

Well I have been following this story in the Cornwall Standard Freeholder and judging from the comments on the articles I don’t think the CBSA should ever go back to the Cornwall Island facilities even armed. 

Here are some of the lowlights….

- One woman is calling the CBSA officers a bunch of pedophiles.
- some are saying that they are being discriminated against because they are the only ones who have to go through customs to go from one part of Canada to another (so much for being a sovereign nation!).
- a bunch of them are taking great joy that a CBSA officer was hurt when a tent blew down on Monday
- they are complaining that the temporary facilities don’t have an “Indian Only” line like there was on Cornwall Island and now they have to wait like everybody else.
- when leaving from the US they are supposed to travel over to Cornwall and go through customs(the US are supplying the CBSA with plate numbers). Many natives have said they won’t do this. This will be a point of contention in the near future.


The only real options are to setup on the American side or just close the border crossing.
They don’t want anybody over there keeping an eye on their activities.

I vote blow the bridges up!


----------



## X-mo-1979

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Either scrap the treaty or close the border for good.  It is pedantic in the extreme to suggest that "just cuz" would be a good reason for CBSA members to not work adequately protected.


Look into it.
There's a reason we are hearing the whole story from the Natives and NOTHING from the Ontario Government.
I think it's sad that Canada cannot even defend it's own border.I think it's sad a small area can shut down a government ran center,and run their flag up the flag pole.
However no politician is gonna touch this with a ten foot pole.
I believe if all 1st and 6th nations joined together they could bring this country to a grinding halt.No fruit in posh Toronto markets, no transportation across the country.Then they will certainly get their way.Cause most people in this great nation are so f'in liberal at the first sign of hardship they would bow down to the natives and petition Parliament to end it at all cost.Cause little billy on younge can't have frosted flakes.

Having said that how many people have wrote their MP's to petition the opening of that border?To not back down from the Mohawks?
I'm willing to bet zero.

I say they win and lets move on.Shut the border.We will bring it up in a CBC movie in about 10 years.

Obviously CBSA must be wrong trying to carry guns on the res.... or the government would put them back on the post right?


"And what treaty would that be?  Something from 200 years ago that would preclude a British garrison on their land?  "
And we don't enforce laws from 200 years ago if they were the last written on the subject?...I guess you know your the police officer.


----------



## Larkvall

Good idea we should email Peter Van Loan who is the Public Safety Minister.

Here is his email address.....

vanlop1@parl.gc.ca


----------



## zipperhead_cop

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Obviously CBSA must be wrong trying to carry guns on the res.... or the government would put them back on the post right?



I have to believe that you are being tongue in cheek?  They aren't being put back in because they are not trained or equipped to engage in a fire fight with natives who have automatic weapons.  For whatever reason, nobody is willing to go force on force with native insurgents so they will continue to pull jackassy stunts.  But I suppose you would rather see a bunch of dead CBSA agents to try to trigger an incident instead of a tactical withdrawl? 



			
				X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> And we don't enforce laws from 200 years ago if they were the last written on the subject?...I guess you know your the police officer.



_You_ were the one who mentioned a treaty.  I thought you had some useful info.  Once again, not so much.  
As for enforcing the law, I can guarantee I have dealt with every person who needed to be dealt with who ran against the law and I was in no way influenced by any heritage factors.  
And just because a law is written on paper doesn't mean it is enforced or is dealt with the way it reads.  That is what case law does for us.


----------



## Old Sweat

And in line with the general tone of conciliation and cooperation the band has followed throughout the process, the following which I found on nationalnewswatch.com reproduced from cbc.ca indicates that the band wants more. (Reproduced under the fair comment provision of the copyright act.)

Akwesasne chief pushes for Mohawk sovereignty
Last Updated: Saturday, July 18, 2009 | 2:10 PM ET Comments279Recommend100CBC News 

Mohawks on the Akwesasne reserve plan to follow up their apparent victory in a dispute over the arming of border guards by pushing for sovereignty on Cornwall Island, according to Grand Chief Mike Mitchell.

The international boundary line cutting through the reserve — straddling Ontario, Quebec and New York State — should also be moved, Mitchell told CBC News on Friday.

He said "pulling back" the Canada-U.S. border would bring "the community back as one," but he didn't say where the line should be drawn.

The Mohawk Council of Akwesasne has said the federal, Quebec and Ontario governments see Akwesasne as a "jurisdictional nightmare."

Canada's public safety minister, Peter Van Loan, pulled a Canada Customs post off the reserve last Monday and set up a temporary post in the city of Cornwall, Ont.

The move followed a six-week standoff around the existing post on Cornwall Island, within Mohawk territory. Mitchell was elected grand chief on the Canadian side on June 27, several weeks into the protest.

The Canadian Border Service Agency said it was forced to remove the guards on May 31 because of intimidation tactics by Mohawks and their supporters.

Mohawk leaders had argued that giving guns to CBSA customs agents on the island reserve — a plan set to be implemented June 1 — raised the risk of violent confrontation.

The makeshift border post means people crossing on to the reserve from the U.S. are now supposed to drive into Cornwall and voluntarily report themselves.

The CBSA has said border guards are slated to return to their post on Mohawk land on Cornwall Island in four months.

However, Ron Moran, head of the guards' union, has indicated his members are reluctant to return because of long-standing tensions between the CBSA and Mohawk community.


----------



## SeaKingTacco

So I guess sovereignty means they will be returning all cheques from the Indian and Northern Affairs, uncashed?  Or are they just "a little" sovereign?


----------



## George Wallace

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> So I guess sovereignty means they will be returning all cheques from the Indian and Northern Affairs, uncashed?  Or are they just "a little" sovereign?



It is a "Sovereigntist philosophy" made so popular by the same government that brought us OKA.  Separation from Canada.  Separate Language Laws.  Separate Taxation Laws.  Different Legal System.  Sovereign Government.  But above all: keep the Canadian Dollar; all Canadian Pensions; all Canadian Government subsidies, grants and incentives; and drain as much as they can out of the Rest of Canada in whatever support they deem necessary, fiscally, legally, etc.


----------



## The Bread Guy

"Sovereignty association" anyone?


----------



## 1feral1

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> because they are not trained or equipped to engage in a fire fight with natives who have automatic weapons.



All the more reason to shut the place down, and send in the appropaite authorities to deliberatly quash any group of so called warriors with loaded illegal machineguns. Gun-toting criminal thug mentality by anyone is not only dangerous but its wrong and against the law. This needs to be publically dealt with to set an example. 

Any law abiding citizen of Canada does not want roving armed bands of dangerous machinegun carrying lawless 'private mercinaries' wandering their country making their own laws. Canada is NOT Somalia, nor a Mohawk republic.  These people arwe taking this way too far, and only in Canada could this be allowed to happen.

EDITed for yet again spelling!!!

Patheitc!

OWDU


----------



## Haggis

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> All the more reason to shut the place down, and send in the appropaite authorities to deliberatly quash any group of so called warriors with loaded illegal machineguns. Gun-toting criminal thug mentality by anyone is not only dangerous but its wrong and against the law. This needs to be publically dealt with to set an example.



Again, Wes, the jurisdictional nightmare rears it's ugly head.  Those machine guns, while illegal on the "Canadian side" of Akwesasne, are quite legal on the "US side" only a short boat ride away and all within the boundaries of the Mohawk "Nation".

Having your internationally flavoured cake and eating it too is a cultural/political characteristic of Akwesasne.


----------



## Kat Stevens

CUT...THEM...LOOSE.


----------



## Larkvall

Here is a photo of the area so people can get a better idea.

The closed border post is in the middle of Cornwall Island on the Canadian/Ontario portion. 

http://www.akwesasne.ca/Map.html


----------



## 1feral1

Haggis said:
			
		

> Again, Wes, the jurisdictional nightmare rears it's ugly head.  Those machine guns, while illegal on the "Canadian side" of Akwesasne, are quite legal on the "US side" only a short boat ride away and all within the boundaries of the Mohawk "Nation".



http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm


Here is NY state's gun laws, and considering the US federal government is tight on full autos, softer US states even have very tight regualtions on full auto firearms also. I would guess that it is illegal in the state of NY that anyone regardless of race or creed possessing a loaded fully automatic weapon, and then prance around in one half paramilitary gear and levi's 501's is also illegal. That being said I can't find any Class III info for this state (I will investigate further).

I am fully aware of Class III licesnces and the $200 US dollar transfer tax etc, as I know several US citizens who posess legal MGs in many other states such as Montana and Arizona. That has not changed, and aside from that and the tight control that has on individuals, here is a blurb from the NY state site mentioned

National Firearms Act Firearms:

" It is a felony for any person to manufacture, transport, or dispose of a machine gun. It is a felony to buy, receive, dispose or conceal a machine gun which has been defaced for the purpose of concealment. The presence in any room, dwelling, structure or vehicle of any machine gun is presumptive evidence of unlawful possession by all persons occupying the place where the machine gun is found. A machine gun is defined as any weapon from which a number of shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged from a magazine with one continuous pull of the trigger and includes a submachine gun. "



I say shut 'em down.

OWDU


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Wes, surely you know that the law does not apply to these people, right?  The desire to enforce is very VERY strong.  What is lacking is the political will.  Why the true nature of what is going on way up north and on some of the border reservations isn't all over the news is beyond me.  I would love to think that if Joe and Jane Canadian realized that there is an armed insurgency right in our own back yard they would want us to act.  However, given the handling of Oka, Ipperwash, Caladonia and countless acts of violence in and around the waterways and border post in Cornwall (and that is just in Ontario, I can't imagine what all foolishness ensues in the rest of the provinces), there is a desire to candy coat reality from the citizenry.  Common sense and rule of law are not a factor here.


----------



## FastEddy

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Wes, surely you know that the law does not apply to these people, right?  The desire to enforce is very VERY strong.  What is lacking is the political will.  Why the true nature of what is going on way up north and on some of the border reservations isn't all over the news is beyond me.  I would love to think that if Joe and Jane Canadian realized that there is an armed insurgency right in our own back yard they would want us to act.  However, given the handling of Oka, Ipperwash, Caladonia and countless acts of violence in and around the waterways and border post in Cornwall (and that is just in Ontario, I can't imagine what all foolishness ensues in the rest of the provinces), there is a desire to candy coat reality from the citizenry.  Common sense and rule of law are not a factor here.




Truer words have never been spoken, also the fact that most Canadians could have a mouthful of sh.t and never say a word.

I thank God that I won't see it, but one day we're going to wake up and wonder where Canada and everything it was has gone and what ever Political Party was in along the way would not have made any difference either.

The sad thing is, that our Brave Sons & Daughter's are dying in Foreign Lands to bring Law and Order there, but we can't enforce it here.

Cheers


----------



## George Wallace

That being said, one should remember the problems that may be faced at the 2010 Olympics.  There are already problems, but they have been forgotten about in the MSM.  Will Canada be faced with an embarrassing situation with the blockading of several Olympic events?  We shall soon see.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

FastEddy said:
			
		

> I thank God that I won't see it, but one day we're going to wake up and wonder where Canada and everything it was has gone and what ever Political Party was in along the way would not have made any difference either.



Really?  See, they way it looks to me, we have already given this country away to special interests.  It's just taking a couple of generations to catch up.  I think we'll look like Britain in about 15-20 years.  We get the society we deserve.  And we currently don't deserve what we have.  



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Will Canada be faced with an embarrassing situation with the blockading of several Olympic events?  We shall soon see.



Well, I guess they shouldn't have planned the Olympic events on a multitude of sacred burial grounds  :


----------



## chris_log

George Wallace said:
			
		

> That being said, one should remember the problems that may be faced at the 2010 Olympics.  There are already problems, but they have been forgotten about in the MSM.  Will Canada be faced with an embarrassing situation with the blockading of several Olympic events?  We shall soon see.



Native groups have already made it quite clear they intend to disrupt olympic events. Should be fun.


----------



## dapaterson

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> "Sovereignty association" anyone?



Or, a far better description, "Divorce with bed privileges".


----------



## Larkvall

A story from the Cornwall Standard Freeholder.....

Apparently there have been some attempts to run the port of entry.



http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1680114&&pg=1


----------



## Edward Campbell

According to this report, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s CBC web site, is a report that indicates that the move of the CBS post to Canada, proper, is working:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2009/08/28/cornwall-smugglers-st-lawrence.html


> Smugglers, RCMP face off on St. Lawrence
> 
> Monday, August 31, 2009
> CBC News
> 
> RCMP have launched a new patrol vessel on the St. Lawrence River in an effort to outmanoeuvre smugglers moving drugs and contraband cigarettes between Canada and the U.S.
> 
> Cornwall RCMP began their patrols aboard the Simmonds, an 18-metre coast guard catamaran, in August — a time when smugglers were increasingly turning to boats and personal watercraft like Sea-Doos to transport their loads across the river, said Sgt. Michael Harvey.
> 
> The smugglers' move to the water coincided with the effective closure of the Seaway International Bridge because of a dispute between the Canadian Border Services Agency and the Akwesasne Mohawk Territory. The agency shut down its post on Cornwall Island, in the middle of the river, for the month of June after Mohawks protested a federal decision to arm border guards. In July, a temporary border post was set up at the north end of the bridge to check all vehicles coming off Cornwall Island.
> 
> "It has had a huge impact [on the smugglers] and they have to find different ways to get the product across," Harvey said. "And it's very hard for them to use the St. Lawrence River and then have vehicles waiting in isolated areas and to recruit people to move this product."
> 
> The goal of the Simmonds is to make law enforcement more visible in the area. It can also act as a mobile base for the smaller Zodiacs that police also used. The federal government has committed to having a total of four vessels like the Simmonds on the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway by April 2010.
> 
> Despite the additional resources, however, the smugglers continue make things difficult for law enforcement.
> 
> On the afternoon of Aug. 25, the Simmonds dropped anchor about 20 kilometres east of Cornwall and waited in mid-channel in plain view for nightfall. The five RCMP officers aboard hoped the smugglers would use a crossing further to the west, where two smaller Zodiac boats were waiting to catch them. The night before, the crew of the Simmonds had seized nearly half a million cigarettes and a jet-ski.
> 
> The RCMP officers estimated that even one man on a personal watercraft can transport 22 kilograms or $2 million worth of ecstasy. Contraband tobacco typically heads from the U.S. to Canada, while marijuana and ecstasy are carried in the opposite direction.
> 
> From the bridge of the Simmonds, Capt. Michael Head kept an eye on the radar.
> 
> "I can identify a target on there and we can visually look for it and see what they're doing. Some of them are just playing in circles," he said. But other times they are trying to cross the channel. The radar gives an indication of their speed and direction of movement, he added.
> 
> As dusk fell, the officers spotted two black Sea-Doos, illegally without lights, drifting out from shore, operated by people dressed in black. On either shore, cars shone their headlights into the river.
> 
> One of the RCMP Zodiac boats approached the Sea-Doos. As it turned on its siren to pull them over, they revved their motors and fled, tearing past the Simmonds, one on each side, with the Zodiac in hot pursuit.
> 
> That's when the crew of the Simmonds noticed another vessel, a large, dark motorboat, poking out of the area the jet skis appeared from on the Cornwall shoreline. The personal watercraft had been decoys to lure the Zodiac away and it worked. The motorboat glided easily toward American waters where the Simmonds could not follow.
> 
> "Smart, very smart," Head said.
> 
> Crew members agreed that the smugglers probably had everything planned out.




It appears that the “closed” border is forcing the Mohawks to use boats that were previously dedicated to drug smuggling to move their contraband tobacco products.

Anything that makes life more difficult for organized crime – and Akwesasne is a *base* for organized crime – is a good thing.


----------



## IrishCanuck

It's good times for Law Enforcement(tongue in cheek), no shortage of crap to get into.

CBSA's enforcement stats have skyrocketed since the move to the mainland.. and the RCMP clearly are chasing day and night.


----------



## Larkvall

The CBSA move to the mainland is definitely having an effect!

According to a story in today's Cornwall Standard Freeholder...

- the price of a carton of contraband cigarettes has risen from $10 to $30
- the 10 factories in New York state where the contraband cigarettes are made are laying people off
- seizures are up

More at the link here

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1722377


----------



## X-mo-1979

One of the responders on the article "Buyers are key to end smuggling" said it best.

"Let's see now. An addict has the choice of paying either $15 or $90 for a weekly fix. This isn't rocket science. "

While I applaud people for quitting due to price, a good many didnt/can't.

While I was in Afghanistan  I bought American cigarettes as it was 14 dollars a carton compared to 45 for Canadian (American dollars).And while I am here in Canada I pay 30 dollars for a carton.

As well some if someone knows the brand "Putters"..the ones that come in actual packs and are wrapped have the Ontario duty paid on them.Is that legit?

Smuggling will always operate as long as their is a demand.The government is putting a prohibition on tobacco by putting it out of price ranges for people to afford.Prohibition causes the criminals to benefit.Look at rum runners.


----------



## Edward Campbell

Some real evidence, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from the CBC web site, about the “value” of _isolating_ Akwesasne:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2009/08/31/ottawa-contraband-cigarette-smuggling-cornwall.html


> Contraband cigarette trade hit by border dispute
> 
> Tuesday, September 1, 2009
> 
> CBC News
> 
> Prices for contraband cigarettes have doubled and supplies have dwindled in eastern Ontario and western Quebec since a border post at Cornwall, Ont., was moved due to a dispute with local Akwesasne Mohawks.
> 
> "The local suppliers or dealers in Cornwall or other cities like Ottawa — they're are at the bottom of the list for the product," said RCMP Sgt. Michael Harvey. "The priority is to get it to other aboriginal communities and their smoke-shacks, where they are then selling it to Montreal and larger cities."
> 
> Police said the supply and price crunch are the result of Canadian Border Services Agency's decision to temporarily move its border post from Cornwall Island to the north side of the Seaway International Bridge — further away from the border.
> 
> Cornwall Island is located completely in Canada, but is part of the Akwesasne Mohawk Territory that straddles the Canada-U.S. border as well as the Quebec-Ontario boundary. RCMP estimated in 2008 that 90 per cent of illegal cigarettes sold in Canada come from Akwesasne, and cigarette smuggling costs the federal government as much as $2 billion in lost tax revenue per year.
> 
> Since the border-post move, anyone heading north from Cornwall island must stop at the border post, whether they ever left Canada or not. That has made things more difficult for smugglers, who increasingly must rely on more difficult water routes for the transportation of the cigarettes, Harvey said.
> 
> *Contraband still cheaper*
> 
> In Hawksbury, Ont., customers such as Josée, who wouldn't give her last name, said finding native-brand cigarettes has become much harder. She said shops tell her to call back in a few days or a week. Josée added that she has been smoking native brands for five years and plans to buy them again when they are available, as they are cheaper than the legal variety, even after the recent price increase.
> 
> The Cornwall Island border crossing was shut down in June after Mohawks set up a camp there to protest a new federal policy of arming border guards with 9-mm handguns, saying the weapons violated their sovereignty and increased the likelihood of violent confrontations. The temporary border post was set up a month later.




Isn’t _sovereignty_ wonderful?


----------



## GAP

Hmmmm....maybe they should have done this years ago....


----------



## zipperhead_cop

GAP said:
			
		

> Hmmmm....maybe they should have done this years ago....



How about striking the Indian Act from the books years ago and treating them as regular citizens?  The current arrangement is a goat rodeo.


----------



## The Bread Guy

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> As well some if someone knows the brand "Putters"..the ones that come in actual packs and are wrapped have the Ontario duty paid on them.Is that legit?


Putter's, along with Sago, Golden Leaf and DK, are all brands manufactured by Grand River Enterprises at Six Nations for sale on Canadian reserves.  The office I work in is on a reserve, and all the gas stations/convenience stores on reserve sell these brands - and since the reserve is adjacent to the city, LOTS of folks come and buy them because, even with taxes all paid, they're cheaper than the regular brands.


----------



## Larkvall

Apparently Akwesasne natives have some complaints for U.S. Customs as well....

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1729316


----------



## Old Sweat

And to think that it's all because some members of the band got all snarky because CBSA personnel were going to carry side arms. Can you saw Law of Unexpected Consequences?


----------



## The Bread Guy

Or be careful what you wish for?


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Piper said:
			
		

> Native groups have already made it quite clear they intend to disrupt olympic events. Should be fun.



Most BC native actions are for bargaining chips. I have been blockaded on the way to a minesite, yet they allowed their own people to go there to work, as the proponent had hired the band members to carry out environmental and traditional use surveys. The whole thing was quite relaxed, we show up, they say sorry no can go, we say see you later. After the proponent agrees to a few demands the blockade comes down. Most often it's about economic benefits to the band.


----------



## Larkvall

Akwesasne residents are being charged for failing to report to Cornwall customs by the CBSA.

From the Standard Freeholder

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1759830


----------



## Larkvall

Does anyone have any news regarding this crossing?

I read a blog from someone in Cornwall saying the both the US and Canadian bridges have been closed.

The CBSA website is also saying the border crossing is closed in both directions.

What's going on there?


----------



## Old Sweat

I just checked with CFRA. The person in the newsroom confirmed that the Cornwall crossing is closed, but they have not been able to get any information.

If I was of a suspicious nature, I might opine that there is a linkage between the two posts immediately above this one.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Early reports from MSM indicate some people are going back and forth without reporting to Customs:


> There's a renewed sense of crisis for Akwesasne residents going through the temporary Canada Customs checkpoint at the north foot of the International Bridge.
> 
> "Akwesasne residents are being charged for failing to report to Cornwall customs -- people are being charged as we speak," said Grand Chief Mike Mitchell Friday, taking a short break from an "emergency" meeting with other Akwesasne council members to "explore legal options."
> 
> Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) requires pedestrians to report to customs if they are leaving the U. S. to enter Canada.
> 
> But with the temporary customs located off Cornwall Island, some Akwesasne residents have decided not to drive the extra few kilometres round-trip to customs after leaving the U. S. side of the reserve and the Quebec Mohawk villages of Snye and St. Regis.
> 
> Those Mohawks fingered at customs for failing to report earlier are being asked to pay $1,000, or watch their motor vehicles be impounded.
> 
> The charges and seizures surprised Akwesasne officials, who didn't have time to warn residents. "We were definitely off-guard, even though we knew this might happen at the end of (September),"Mitchell said ....



And this from a web page called "Cornwall Free News":


> The entrance to the International bridge to Akwesasne and the US was shut down this afternoon after another vehicle seizure.
> 
> Reports indicate that after a single person attempted to block the roadway CBSA officials requested that Chief Swamp of the Akwesasne Police Force shut the bridge.   This after a warning to MCA officials last night.   Perception from a number of people I spoke with at the tent is that an excuse was being looked for to close the bridge.
> 
> Cornwall City Police joined by OPP have shut the bridge to all traffic including this reporter.  Foot traffic has also been denied access.   Reports also indicate that the US side has also closed access.
> 
> Word is that CBSA officials from Ottawa are helocoptering in for a meeting at approximately 2:30 PM today to negotiate the bridge re-opening....



Usual caveats on early MSM reporting apply, and I can't vouch for the reliability/credibility of the latter web page.


----------



## The Bread Guy

....here:


> Police have blocked access to a temporary border crossing in Cornwall, Ont. because of a protest by Akwesasne Mohawks on Cornwall Island.
> 
> Cornwall police say they were called in by the Awkesasne Mohawk police to close a bridge leading to the United States until a dispute between Mohawk protesters and border services can be resolved.
> 
> The incident stems from a disagreement over fines recently issued to members of the Mohawk community who failed to report to a temporary customs office located off Mohawk territory when returning to Canada from the United States.
> 
> However, the Akwesasne Mohawk Council disagrees with the penalties, saying it makes no sense to fine Mohawks who use native land to travel between the two countries.
> 
> "They are not entering Canada, but traveling only within Mohawk territory. When they do travel to Cornwall, they report at the Cornwall Port as do every other visitor to Canada," reads a statement issued by the Akwesasne Mohawk Council on Friday.
> 
> The council says some residents have been fined $1,000 for failing to report to customs. If the fine is not paid, the council says border agents will seize vehicles when they leave Mohawk territory to enter Cornwall.
> 
> Now, the council is advising all of its residents not to travel to Cornwall until the issue can be resolved.
> 
> "The leadership regrets that CBSA's actions once again threaten the relationship between the Cornwall and Akwesasne communities, but the interests of the Mohawk community must be addressed."
> 
> Akwesasne Mohawk police say members of the community are currently engaged in a peaceful demonstration on Cornwall Island.
> 
> As a result, the border has been closed. Meantime, travellers are asked to use the crossing at Dundee, Que., located 45 minutes east of Cornwall; or the crossing at Prescott, Ont., about 45 minutes west of Cornwall ....


----------



## Larkvall

According the Cornwall Free News and the CBSA website the border crossing is open again.


----------



## The Bread Guy

...such as it is, from the Canadian Press, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act._


> The Seaway International Bridge, a temporary border crossing in Cornwall, Ont., was briefly shut down Saturday amid a dispute between the Akwesasne First Nation and the Canada Border Services Agency.
> 
> Cornwall police were called to shut down the bridge around noon and remained on site to divert traffic away from the border crossing.
> 
> Akwesasne spokesman Brendan White said the border crossing reopened late Saturday afternoon after talks between the agency and the Mohawk band.
> 
> On Friday, the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne accused the agency of seizing vehicles and fining residents who failed to report to Canada Customs after coming to the island from the U.S.
> 
> White said "to do so would have required our community members to travel out of the way before going home."
> 
> Since the checkpoint opened in mid-July, Akwesasne residents have had to check in at customs when coming from New York State to Cornwall Island.
> 
> Due to conflicting reports, it was not entirely clear who asked for the bridge to close Saturday, but the agency said it did not initiate the bridge closure and stressed its temporary border point remained open.
> 
> CBSA confirmed it did meet with Mohawk council to discuss the situation and a spokesperson said the agency was "committed to ongoing dialogue."
> 
> The agency has made it clear to the Akwesasne what the legal requirements are to cross the border, Tracie LeBlanc said in an email Saturday.
> 
> "Since July 13, we have been clearly and consistently communicating the legal obligation for travellers to Canada to report directly to the Port of Cornwall," she said in the email.
> 
> CBSA said it has put up signs and has started a leaflet campaign to ensure travellers know what they must do when using the temporary crossing.
> 
> The temporary crossing is a short-term solution and the CBSA continues to look for a permanent solution, she said.


----------



## The Bread Guy

....according to today's Public Safety Canada Daily Infrastructure Report:


> .... on September 27, the (Cornwall) Standard Freeholder reported that officials with the Akwesasne First Nation Community near Cornwall, Ontario, are to set up a checkpoint at the Cornwall Island port of entry along the Canada‑U.S. border to try and satisfy safety concerns and reporting requirements for community members. Grand Chief Mike Mitchell indicated that the proposed plan would see the port of entry reopened and manned by Mohawk security officers with the support of the Akwesasne police service. Chief Mitchell also indicated that security personnel would monitor the people and goods arriving at Cornwall Island from the U. S., and non-native individuals would be instructed to continue on to the temporary Canada Border Services Agency facility set up at the foot of the Seaway Bridge in Cornwall. A spokesperson for the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne indicated that the move is to address the needs of Akwesasne residents to be able to travel within their own community while at the same time improving security along the international corridor. However, a spokesperson for the CBSA indicated that it is the only agency that has the legal authority to provide border services at ports of entry and that all travellers entering Canada from the U. S. are required to report directly to the CBSA temporary port of entry in Cornwall as required by Canadian law.


----------



## Larkvall

More hijinx......

A group dug a border marker on the US-Quebec border.

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2159014


Here is a video of the incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsNap5EyQnk


----------



## Edward Campbell

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from _Akwesasne Womens Fire_, a ‘local’ news source, is a report (with a distinct Mohawk bias) on the latest bit of  ‘sovereignty’ theatre:

http://www.akwesasnewomensfire.com/akwesasne/november-2nd-celebrates-removal-of-us-canada-border-markers-iron-curtain-berlin-wall/


> November 2nd, Akwesasne Celebrates Removal of US & Canada Border Markers, Iron Curtain, Berlin Wall
> 
> On November 2nd, a celebration was going on overseas to celebrate the removal of the Iron Curtain.  Link to story with details from The Globe and Mail is at http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/border-guards-refusal-to-shoot-let-the-iron-curtain-drop/article1348981/ How ironic is it, that here in the Lands of Onkwehonwe, the Americus Empire, (english speakers refer to our location as U.S.A., Canada, America), some of our people are actually wrongfully accused of being ‘illegal immigrants’ within their very own homes and communities?
> 
> Some of our families in Akwesasne,  have homes where the USA and Canada corporations force their ‘land border marker’ right through the center of their homes.  Other families in Akwesasne are actually being threatened by the Canadian Border Services Agency’s Union agents with vehicle theft too.
> 
> Can you imagine being surrounded by USA & Canadian corporate union agents that threaten to arrest you, strip search you, steal your vehicle, and worse,  if you do not ask them for permission to enter or leave your own home, school, business, and doctors appointments?
> 
> Some of our Onkwehonwe that live in Akwesasne, get their vehicles stolen by CBSA over and over again, even when they do ask for permission each time they go to work, pick up their children from school, attend dr. appointments, and pickup groceries.  CBSA states they do not report fast enough when the bridge is loaded with cars that are lined up for more than a mile with a wait time of longer than 2 hours.
> 
> Regardless of the constant threat of theft, arrests, and being labeled as criminals, just because we are fortunate to be born as Onkwehonwe, the  past few days have been very interesting and exciting around Akwesasne.
> 
> On Friday afternoon, October 30th 2009, a stone obelisk (U.S. & Canada Land Marker) was removed out of Kanatakon.  The english incorrectly refer to the location as ‘Akwesasne’ or ‘St Regis Quebec’ or ‘Hogansburg NY’ or ‘the US’ or ‘Canada’ or ‘Mohawk territory’.
> 
> The stone obelisk was so heavy that, even though it was gently loaded onto a trailer, it nearly went through the bottom.  A dump truck would be more appropriate for removing the illegally forced land markers.  Inscriptions were discovered on the stone base, underneath the ground that day that stated ‘RENEWED AUG. 1902′.
> 
> On Monday, November 2nd 2009, the stone base of the obelisk was disconnected, to make transportation safer.  Everyone was surprised to discover that another obelisk of metal, with inscriptions on it from the early 1800s, was hidden inside the stone base!
> 
> Each side of the metal obelisk has inscriptions on it that have not seen the light of day since the early 1800s.  Other objects were also found inside the metal obelisk and buried into the stone base.  Onkwehonwe researchers are also looking at a mysterious metal disk and expect to report their findings soon.  We have not found any inscriptions to show who made the metal obelisk yet, regarding a foundry.
> 
> I wish my Grandparents were still alive to witness all of this!  Some of them were residential school survivors during the days that the obelisks were placed all over the Lands of Onkwehonwe. They were young children and forced to endure abuse, rape, torture, and even to witness the murders of their family members by the same government agents of the USA and Canada corporations, that were forcing their land markers through the middle of our villages and even homes.
> 
> The U.S., Canada, and Mexico violated Natural Law when they forced their Obelisks onto the Lands of Onkwehonwe.  I seriously wonder if all their markers have similar objects hidden inside of them?  Those Obelisks symbolize how the U.S. & Canada corporations planned to put a wall up around Onkwehonwe, herd us in like property, and they even hoped we would kill ourselves off.
> 
> The way that C.B.S.A., various border agents, and even mainstream media have treated us around Akwesasne, is a constant reminder of how they hope to make us their quiet submissive property.
> 
> When I observed the Obelisk being removed from our community, it was difficult for me to not yell out and Cheer.  Today, I find it so ironic that overseas, a jubilant party was going on around the same time, to celebrate the removal of The Iron Curtain / Berlin Wall.
> 
> Each of the Four Sides of the Metal Obelisk has symbols.  One seems to be a letter T, but it should not be assumed until the dust and stone is cleared off the metal inscriptions.  So far, the inscriptions appear to state:
> 
> •	???LBERT SMITH U.S. COMssr
> •	??? LT COL: I.B.B. ESTCOURT. H.B.M. COMssr
> •	BOUNDARY AUG ?9TH 1842
> •	TREATY OF WASHINGTON
> 
> Here are a few photos showing the metal obelisk that was found hidden inside the stone base of the U.S. & Canada Land Marker Obelisk. I have lots more that I am processing and I will show what I can, as soon as possible. I look forward to your comments too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COPYRIGHT MONICA PETERS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.




It appears, from other reports, that the New York Mohawk Police attempted to stop this bit of vandalism but surrendered in the face of determined ‘warriors.’

Overall: <yawn> Canada border post stays where it is.


----------



## The Bread Guy

_MODS:  Feel free to move this elsewhere if you think it's too far outside this thread's lane._

Peripherally related, here's an RCMP news release, advertising a couple of public meetings on the smuggling issue, if you're interested and live in the area:


> The Cornwall Regional Task Force (CRTF) continues to identify, target and disrupt supply routes used by organized crime groups who attempt to smuggle illicit commodities into our communities.
> 
> (....)
> 
> Public Meetings
> 
> Those residents who are affected and concerned are invited to attend public information meetings hosted by the CRTF (Cornwall Regional Task Force) on the following dates:
> 
> Tuesday April 27th, 2010 at 7:30 p.m. at the Precious Blood Parish located at 18314 County Road 2, Glen Walter, Ontario
> 
> Thursday April 29th, 2010 at 7:30 p.m. at the St. Joseph’s Catholic Church located at 36 Oak Street, Lancaster, Ontario ....


----------



## Ex-SHAD

Border security, must trump any and all Indian treaty rights. We live in a day and age, where our watchword must be “Eternal Vigilance” and we need to be ready to defend our borders against all threats, and not feel intimidated by poorly adjudicated legal decisions.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Ex-SHAD said:
			
		

> Border security, must trump any and all Indian treaty rights. We live in a day and age, where our watchword must be “Eternal Vigilance” and we need to be ready to defend our borders against all threats, and not feel intimidated by poorly adjudicated legal decisions.



That's a great thought, but unfortunately special interest groups are far more precious and important than the good of society.  Those types write letters don't you know?  And when some groups get told "no" they can take up arms, engage in an insurgency and be given entire subdivisions as a reward.  
This is Canada, my friend.  Accountability is dead.


----------



## Ex-SHAD

Now, I know that in the short term it would be a political firestorm, but would it not be possible through either constitutional reform or amendments, to modify the land agreements made between the Indian Tribe and the Government of Canada?

Another option and I know this is more grounds for legal scholars, but couldn’t eminent domain be used by the government?


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Ex-SHAD said:
			
		

> Now, I know that in the short term it would be a political firestorm, but would it not be possible through either constitutional reform or amendments, to modify the land agreements made between the Indian Tribe and the Government of Canada?
> 
> Another option and I know this is more grounds for legal scholars, but couldn’t eminent domain be used by the government?



It is very do-able but nobody has the stomach for the gun battles that would ensue.


----------



## Jarnhamar

I'm not making any accusations here but _APPARENTLY_ the amount of illegal goods being smuggled into Canada via the Cornwall border crossing too a drastic drop.

I'd like to thank our friends on Cornwall Island for their part in getting the customs stuff moved to the Canada side and helping to reduce the amount of smuggling.    

I know many of you now complain how long it takes to cross the bridge- thanks for your patience.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Apollo Diomedes said:
			
		

> I know many of you now complain how long it takes to cross the bridge- thanks for your patience.



They can't complain when they brought it on themselves.


----------



## Spanky

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> They can't complain when they brought it on themselves.


Of course they can.  To do otherwise would be to take personal responsibility.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Spanky said:
			
		

> Of course they can.  To do otherwise would be to take personal responsibility.



Ah, right.  We're still in Canada.  My bad.


----------



## Larkvall

Government of Canada announced today plans to replace the north span with a low level bridge.
I am not sure this is a good idea until the get the point of entry situation worked out.


http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2010/10/c9563.html


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Larkvall said:
			
		

> Government of Canada announced today plans to replace the north span with a low level bridge.
> I am not sure this is a good idea until the get the point of entry situation worked out.
> 
> 
> http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2010/10/c9563.html



I couldn't glean it from the article ???  Surely they aren't going to build a second bridge and also have it on native land?


----------



## Haggis

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I couldn't glean it from the article ???  Surely they aren't going to build a second bridge and also have it on native land?



Yes.  The north span is wholly Canadian.  A new bridge that does not cross native land (Cornwall Island) would have to be either east or west of Cornwall by several kilometers.

The south span crosses the international border in mid-river and crosses the Seaway channel.  The existing north span is a high level span which crosses from Cornwall Island to Cornwall over the original Cornwall canal with enough clearance for shipping on the canal.  It's height became obsolete with the opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Haggis said:
			
		

> Yes.  The north span is wholly Canadian.  A new bridge that does not cross native land (Cornwall Island) would have to be either east or west of Cornwall by several kilometers.



Thank cripes for that.  Once the bridge is done, they'll have to go to full time water borne smuggling.


----------



## Haggis

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Thank cripes for that.  Once the bridge is done, they'll have to go to full time water borne smuggling.



I think you missed the point of my comment.  The plan is to only replace the north span - the Canadian span.  The existing south span suspension bridge will remain, which makes landfall in Canada on Cornwall Island.  The existing north span will be demolished after the new span is completed.  The end result is that there will still be two bridges at Cornwall. One from the US landfall to Cornwall Island (Canadian landfall) and the other from Cornwall Island to Cornwall.

My opinion is that there should be a third span from Cornwall to Cornwall Island.  Then, we eliminate alll land access to Cornwall Island from the international span (fences, barricades, concrete walls, etc.) and make every Canada bound vehicle come through the POE in Cornwall before returning to Cornwall Island via the third span.  There should be NO direct access to/from the US side from Cornwall Island.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

I guess I did  

Why in the hell can't they just build a bridge from the US side to the Canadian side and avoid Native property all together?


----------



## Jarnhamar

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I guess I did
> 
> Why in the hell can't they just build a bridge from the US side to the Canadian side and avoid Native property all together?


 they will put up road blocks (which isn't terrorisim or illegal because it's "their land")  and you'll have to pay a toll and the police will be ordered to stand by and watch.


----------



## Haggis

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> I guess I did
> 
> Why in the hell can't they just build a bridge from the US side to the Canadian side and avoid Native property all together?



Cost and geography.  A direct span would have to be several kilometers upstream (west) where the crossing is very wide.   To go farther west makes the crossing redundant as you get closer to Prescott.

Cornwall Island was chosen as the point where the costs could be borne by both governments in the form of two spans - one from the US to Canada making landfall *in Canada* at Cornwall Island and one wholly Canadian north span.  The road link beween the two spans on Cornwall Island saved a huge sum of money compared to a direct span.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Haggis said:
			
		

> The road link beween the two spans on Cornwall Island saved a huge sum of money compared to a direct span.



Very possibly, but it is not worth it in terms of criminality and smuggling.


----------



## canada94

This crap doesn't surprise me, anyone ever read about the Native reserve in Northern Ontario that ran out their 11 OPP officers with a bull dozer?

.. sheshh.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

canada94 said:
			
		

> This crap doesn't surprise me, anyone ever read about the Native reserve in Northern Ontario that ran out their 11 OPP officers with a bull dozer?
> 
> .. sheshh.



Explain your post please.


----------



## Edward Campbell

canada94 said:
			
		

> This crap doesn't surprise me, anyone ever read about the Native reserve in Northern Ontario that ran out their 11 OPP officers with a bull dozer?
> 
> .. sheshh.




I recall the (fairly recent) incident. I think we must be careful not to wrap all aboriginal 'protests' in one flag.

Some (many? most?) aboriginal communities have huge socio-economic problems that, eventually, breed *despair* - not all of those problems are self inflicted wounds. The 'blame' for some of that despair must be laid at the feet of 'us'  the larger, Canadian community that has failed to accept its lawful responsibilities.

The situation near Cornwall is of a different nature and we, Canada, need have no sympathy.


----------



## canada94

To all whom are interested.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/christie-blatchford/opp-on-remote-reserve-chased-out-by-rock-throwing-mob/article1663733/

The OPP being removed.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

canada94 said:
			
		

> To all whom are interested.
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/christie-blatchford/opp-on-remote-reserve-chased-out-by-rock-throwing-mob/article1663733/
> 
> The OPP being removed.



Equal parts pathetic and not surprising.  Every time institutional spinelessness like that occurs, it puts every officers life in danger by causing the insurgents to be more bold.


----------



## canada94

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Equal parts pathetic and not surprising.  Every time institutional spinelessness like that occurs, it puts every officers life in danger by causing the insurgents to be more bold.



I totally agree, a very touchy subject as well though.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Did the officers not have guns?


----------



## PuckChaser

I'm sure there's a lot of rules with respect to OPP officers drawing their firearms. You only have so many bullets, and if there's a large crowd it would be better to just talk the situation down and leave, then to have it explode into another Oka. They can come back in force later and arrest the individuals, however, I doubt that'll happen.


----------



## canada94

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I'm sure there's a lot of rules with respect to OPP officers drawing their firearms. You only have so many bullets, and if there's a large crowd it would be better to just talk the situation down and leave, then to have it explode into another Oka. They can come back in force later and arrest the individuals, however, I doubt that'll happen.



Your very right according to my father (RCMP). My mom was in a task force specifically designed to stop smuggling from native reserves. As most of you may know, natives and the RCMP have a very dark history. My mom would find a hit on someone but to arrest them on the reserve they had to inform the head natives of the coming arrest ?. 

So when the RCMP moved for the arrest there was no surprise the specific person, was never there.


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## zipperhead_cop

Apollo Diomedes said:
			
		

> Did the officers not have guns?



The government did not support their police at Ipperwash when officers were being fired at with actual bullets.  Forget about opening fire at a mob.  It comes down to whether or not the officer felt their or someone else's life was in danger, but when your organization won't back you, you second guess yourself and potentially put yourself in harms way.


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## Colin Parkinson

canada94 said:
			
		

> To all whom are interested.
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/christie-blatchford/opp-on-remote-reserve-chased-out-by-rock-throwing-mob/article1663733/
> 
> The OPP being removed.



They need to go in there with enough force with ROE's/political backing sufficent to make it unwise to confront the police force or not go back and put up a big sign saying:

“Past this point there is no police service and anyone proceeding shall take whatever steps required.”

Pretty quick there will be no teachers, healthcare workers, tradesman etc. Harsh but realistic


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## canada94

Colin P said:
			
		

> They need to go in there with enough force with ROE's/political backing sufficent to make it unwise to confront the police force or not go back and put up a big sign saying:
> 
> “Past this point there is no police service and anyone proceeding shall take whatever steps required.”
> 
> Pretty quick there will be no teachers, healthcare workers, tradesman etc. Harsh but realistic



Most Native Reserves are policed by "Native peacekeepers". This Reserve is Policed by the OPP which also have a very bad and chaotic history with Natives. I think Native peacekeepers, policing native reserves is the best bet. 

I DONT CONDON THE NATIVES MISTREATING AND EJECTION OF THE OPP THOUGH  Don't get a wrong message, but i think of it this way; if my police force for say. The Niagara Regional Police was all Natives it would be akward and there would be disputes. As all the OPP on the Island (IM GUESSING) where not of native backround. I do get what your saying though, it seems some Reserves are destroying what we simply give them.


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## zipperhead_cop

Police enforce the law.  If you have an issue with the police, you are clearly in favor of breaking the law.  Unfortunately, when a native group shows that they will become violent, the law no longer applies to them and they get to do whatever they want.  So there is little wonder why they have taken to violence in order to make the pesky law enforcers go away.  

Keep the free stuff coming, just get rid of the fun governors.


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## canada94

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Police enforce the law.  If you have an issue with the police, you are clearly in favor of breaking the law.  Unfortunately, when a native group shows that they will become violent, the law no longer applies to them and they get to do whatever they want.  So there is little wonder why they have taken to violence in order to make the pesky law enforcers go away.
> 
> Keep the free stuff coming, just get rid of the fun governors.



Totally agree; according to article this isn't the only time this has happened. Until the OPP (or other similar circumstances) find a remedy to fix the issue a backbone must become apparent or else precedent will show itself and over and over again the Natives on this Island will do the same thing.


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## Fishbone Jones

Cut off all their funding and social programs until they allow the OPP back in. If they don't want government law, they get nothing else from the government.

Of course McSquinty will just bury his head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening. Just like Caledonia and Cornwall.

He'll be the first to catterwall though, after the next election when another party wins and decides to do something constructive.


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## zipperhead_cop

recceguy said:
			
		

> Cut off all their funding and social programs until they allow the OPP back in. If they don't want government law, they get nothing else from the government.



From what I understand, it's even lamer than that.  The location was originally and is supposed to be native policed.  They were not up to the task and abandoned their post.  Anarchy ensued and the OPP went in at the request of the band leaders (who probably were having a hard time stealing the band funds with all the lawlessness) and that is the only reason they were there.  
If the natives don't want the OPP there, well... Via con Dios.  Dump it back to FN policing.  It's their problem.


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