# Military Freefall Jump Unit?



## Jmacca (19 Mar 2004)

Hey I am planning on attending RMC next year and later joining the infantry, but lately due to someone bringing some attention about the topic I was wondering if Canada has a military freefall jump unit? 
If so, are their any specific requirements that you guys know of? Im actually not aware of any planes that you could do freefall jumping out of in part of the Canadian Military but Im most obviously mistaken.

Any info would be great!


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## Mr. Ted (19 Mar 2004)

They are called the Skyhawks if you are referring to our parachute demonstration teams.  Believe they work out of Trenton and they travel around, doing airshows alongside the Snowbirds, things like that, building awareness and goodwill around our military.

I spoke to three of them last summer at an airshow and they were young guys from the parachute companies of their respective infantry regiments.  Nice, experienced but young - all around 23 - 26 or so.  Each had something like 300 freefalls to his credit.  Pretty wild.  They jump out, free fall with smoke attached to their legs, then pop the chutes, join up and do demos as they spiral down to earth while O Canada booms thru the loudspeakers.  Quite dramatic.  Neat to see.

As well, I believe SAR Techs, or whatever they are currently called, have free fall quals as do Pathfinders(Airborne Recce).  JTF2 obviously.  Other than that, I‘m not aware of anything.

Ted


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## George Wallace (19 Mar 2004)

To be a Skyhawk, I believe you only need to be a qualified CF jumper.  The positions on the team are open to anyone in the CF who is qualified, as far as I know.

SAR Techs, of course, would also be capable to do freefall.  Members of the three jump companies will from time to time be offered the chance to do so also, and may get the chance on Exchanges with other nations‘ units.  JTF 2 members, as far as I know, do not have to have any Jump Qualifications, so they would not all be freefallers. 

GW


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## Jmacca (19 Mar 2004)

Ah to clarrify Im talking about military freefall, as in by means of battle transportation. 

What caught my eye was a friend of my parents from the United States who is in the Marines. He is aboard a Recce Freefall team, and was telling me some wild stories - jumping from a plane, landing in the middle of no wheres only to find out your surrounded by 1000‘s of enemy soldiers. 

So does Canada have any companies that are specifically trained to insert into battle via freefall jump? 

Also, this is probably dumb, but I always thought Recce units were more of a search and rescue type thing not so much battle seek and destroy like? The way I was told though or at least in the United States was they travel in small units depending on the case and are given tasks that normal units cannot conduct. For example they would drop in and move into position to intercept a supply convoy or obtain information about a certain something.

See, I know Im going to say this and someone if not all of you are going to say no I dont or you think you do, but I want to get some wild action. I mean I know once I get there Ill be scared shitless most likely but I want to live on the wild side, the real wild side and deal with the worst of the worst, but yet have a realistic opportunity of achieving unlike JTF2. I mean its the best of the best, I just want the most dangerous of the dangerous? Thats why I came up with the freefall idea as I mean it cant be easy to do and achieve high standards but I think if its offered here in Canada through a battle aspect then it would be what I want to do.


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## GrahamD (19 Mar 2004)

Something I recently read about JTF2 said that they were capable of assaulting via HALO jumps.(High Altitude(exit) Low Opening).

If you look at infantry specialty training courses listed on the DND site you will see that "freefall jumpmaster" is one of the possible courses you could get on.

I was told by my recruiter that it can be difficult to get on specialty courses like that because sometimes they are not offered for a few years, and then when they are you might be deployed, or you just might not be selected because of competetiveness.
He said you need to have an open mind about your career path, because if you join for only one reason (ie to be a sniper, SAR tech, or in my case a military freefall jumpmaster), that you can very easily become frusterated and bitter when you discover that it‘s not going to happen for a really long time if at all.

Anyway, as for the planes, you can jump out of almost anything.  In a small aircraft with forward opening doors (ie a Cessna), it requires only a small modification to make the door open upward, well within the CF budget.  I don‘t know what they use to jump out of, but I know a popular military skydiving ride is transport planes. They lower the ramp and you just jump out the back.
When I was at SARSStock the Skyhawks were jumping out of helicopters.
When I was in Florida a couple of years back there was a Screaming Eagles (101st airborne)team at the drop zone in Lake Wales doing some training.
They were doing demonstration training jumps, and also practicing driving quads out the rear of a cargo plane that the drop zone bought from the USAF.
They were actually riding them out the back and freefalling on them, then landing on it so that they could instantly drive away, it was pretty cool.

 If the CAF offers a military freefall jumpmaster course, then there must be students to teach how to freefall, which also means there must be a usefulness to having trained skydivers in the Armed Forces.
I‘ve tried to figure out who is doing freefall jumps and why, but the answer is elusive (the recruiting center can be very vague sometimes).  I‘m thinking that it may only be elite units who get to jump. (Pathfinders, JTF2, SAR techs, etc.)

Just to touch on your post Jmacca, if it‘s not being handled by JTF2 then it‘s not the worst of the worst, or the badest of the bad.
Basically you‘re saying you want to join a specialised combat unit that doesn‘t have to work as hard as JTF2.
You don‘t think you have what it takes to get into that unit, but you want to be deployed as though you were in it.
It is not a very realistic view of what life in the CF is going to be like for you (in my opinion).


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## Zoomie (19 Mar 2004)

The CF uses the following airborne platforms to deliver troops into the field:
 - Buffalo (SAR techs and Skyhawks)
 - Hercules (SAR Techs and Tactical Drops)
 - Griffon (SAR Techs and Tactical)
 - Cormorant (SAR TECHS) - not ideal - only if    winch is not feasible

I would imagine that apart from the Big Boys at Dwyer and the select few Para COYs, free-fall insertions into Combat is not the norm.  Our entire methodology is based around the low-level tactical drop en mass (a la D-Day style).


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## Jmacca (19 Mar 2004)

Ah darn well thanks for the help guys...U.S army has so much more specialization in different fields, personally I think its set up 100000 times better. 

Argh Ill have to move there and jump from their planes hehe   

So Canada doesnt have a division equivalent to the airbourne of the U.S? I really dont understand the canadian setup. I mean its probably simple but its all weird. Its not a specific you join here you do this, its like infantry and you do a bunch of weird branched stuff. Cool I must say, I just wasnt aware of the setup like that. 

So what I meant when I said I didnt wanna be like JTF2 was that I didnt want the "elite" symbol all over me. I simply want to do my job, but I want an atmosphere that sort of catches me eye. If you know what I mean. The Hollywood "Navy Seal" like setting. Its not realistic thats for sure, but Im sure some of you could have related to that. 

I want to do something that I can look back and say hey, that outcome happened because of what I did, or yeah I did that. Im not sure if any of you understand what Im thinking, or maybe you do? But Canada doesnt really have any assault like teams, which is what Im looking at. I wanna be left in the middle of knowwhere, heavily outnumbered, against the odds, dependent on my training and strictly on my small unit following, make the decisions as needed, and get the job done. 

I mean death is always scary, but if I die serving my country and fulfilling my task then I would be happy and I couldnt ask for more


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## Jarnhamar (19 Mar 2004)

I really like your attitude Jmacca. it‘s that kind of movtivation we need in the army. All that being said you do need a bit of a reality check which is no fault of your own.

You said 
"I wanna be left in the middle of knowwhere, heavily outnumbered, against the odds, dependent on my training and strictly on my small unit following, make the decisions as needed, and get the job done."

I know where your comming from with this attitude but if this were the case you would die not to mention whoever was sent in to save your *** would probably die too.  Being sent in alone behind enemy lines with a knife isn‘t how it works, at all. (Not trying to bust your balls either my friend)  You get what you put into the army.  Sign up for the infantry, do your best, get the good challanging courses and you‘ll be rewarded for it i promise.


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## Jmacca (19 Mar 2004)

Well I dont mean I want to die by any means but if that is what is said to happen then so be it, I will die trying eh. 

I mean I dont want to act all glorious Im invinciable but I like to motivate myself to be the best that I possible can and carry whoever is with me to the top, if you know what I mean.

So as an infantry officer, I do my role, get promoted, perform and I will be asked by CO‘s, and given the opportunity to do specialty training courses which I desire? 

Sounds fair enough to me. I mean I dont expect to walk in there and I knew i would have to work hard for it, but now I know what I have to do!


Thanks guys for your help, maybe Ill see ya out there someday


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## combat_medic (19 Mar 2004)

The Skyhawks do not require the Basic Parachutist‘s course in order to apply for the team. To apply, you need to have a class A civilan freefall parachute licence (50+ freefall jumps) or military freefall course, and QL4 in any trade. They want you to have basic para, but if you don‘t have it and they want you on the team, then they‘ll put you on the course right away, and you must pass it to get on the team. I met one guy who was in this position. He applied for the Skyhawks with over 200 civvie jumps, and they gave him a conditional acceptance, pending his passing Basic Para. He was a Reg Engineer at the time, and couldn‘t get the para course any other way.

Actually, it‘s one of the easiest ways to get a Para course, especially for those in trades or positions where they would never be offered a Para position.

As for the military freefall course for things like HALO and HAHO jumping, it‘s about as rare as a sniper course, and getting on it is about as easy as winning the lottery.


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## Spr.Earl (20 Mar 2004)

Many moon‘s ago in Wain. our Pathfinder‘s along with Brit,Amer. and I think German were doing HALO from 20,000 + over our camp.
You could watch them come out of the Hurc. and follow them down the noise of the shute opening at about 800ft + - was somthing to hear(120 mph?)
CRACK!

For about a week they did this,practising opening a differant alltitude‘s.
It was pretty neat.


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## alexk (20 Mar 2004)

My freind rob went to Estonia(sp) and did their jump course. he realy enjoyed it, one of his jumps was from 450 feet. Their parachutes are alot different from ours. when you jump wour static line is hoked to a drone parachute and that starts the timer on the parachute one the timer buzzes it sets off your main chute. it seems more tactical considering your chute opens then you hit the ground, it makes you think why are we sending our jumpers at 1250 feet with a main parachute and having them as targets for the time in the air, it realy opened my eyes. those crazy russians.


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