# Naval Improved Clothing and Equipment (NICE) Project



## Eye In The Sky (10 Sep 2008)

For those Navy personnel out there:  

Naval Improved Clothing and Equipment  IntraNet site

I took a quick look but wasn't able to find the InterNet site yet.


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## aesop081 (10 Sep 2008)

Dear Lord......... :-X


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## Neill McKay (10 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Dear Lord......... :-X



Could those of us without access to the intranet press you for a slightly more verbose comment on what you've seen there?


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## aesop081 (10 Sep 2008)

The army guys will love this one :



> Utility Vest - Members on board ships need to be able to work in austere conditions during emergencies and the actual carrier (warbag) is not ergonomically suitable for all tasks. The new vest will provide comfort and be *customizable to each member*.


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Sep 2008)

I like the shoes and socks in the 3rd picture, lower right corner...are they issue with the NICE project??   :blotto:

I am home, maybe CDN Aviator will post the pictures of the Hot Weather boots.  As soon as I saw them, this popped into my mind.  I was pretty quick to mention that to the MS that was there with me too.   ;D

Seriously speaking, I was surprised at the...'quality' of the pics.  Maybe they should have kidnapped an Image Tech for that task.  I'd like to try some of their hot weather socks though...something CTS or CEMS missed out on.  (NICE is giving the CSS out as well.)  Might save me from buying my own at MEC.


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## aesop081 (10 Sep 2008)

Hot weather boot


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## Ex-Dragoon (10 Sep 2008)

Whomever picked this stuff must have a real hate on for the Navy. :X


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## aesop081 (10 Sep 2008)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Whomever picked this stuff must have a real hate on for the Navy. :X



Come on now Ex-D....be......errr....NICE !!!

 ;D


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Sep 2008)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Whomever picked this stuff must have a real hate on for the Navy. :X





			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Come on now Ex-D....be......errr....NICE !!!
> 
> ;D



I can't put into words how hard I am laughing right now  :rofl:


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## Ex-Dragoon (10 Sep 2008)

No Tankers---check
No new Destroyers--check
No new MHP---check
No fashion sense clothing--check and double check


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## hugh19 (10 Sep 2008)

my personal favorite was the tan hat with blue trimmings...EEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Sep 2008)

sledge said:
			
		

> my personal favorite was the tan hat with blue trimmings...EEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW



Speaking of hats...is there really a requirement for cat eyes on the...blue..ummm....hat in the pictures above ???


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## Loachman (10 Sep 2008)

That stood right out, didn't it? Perhaps they could embroider the ship's name across the front of it.


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## TN2IC (10 Sep 2008)

The hat reminds me of the new Commissioner hat!  :rofl:


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## navymich (10 Sep 2008)

For my navy friends... Run, don't walk!  ;D


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Sep 2008)

Thinking back to his comments in this thread, I am betting that medicineman will be happy to exchange his tac vest and bush hat for the NICE kit.   ;D


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## Loachman (10 Sep 2008)

Whoever came up with that name certainly has a sick sense of humour.

At least I can respect _that_.


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## Matt_Fisher (10 Sep 2008)

Just curious as to what the purpose of a tac-vest for the Navy would be?  If it's for boarding parties, they're far better off with an integrated armour ensemble with MOLLE on it (i.e. Maritime CIRAS) that is cable releaseable in case of emergency, i.e. falling overboard, or getting snagged/held up in a hazardous situation.  As for the boonie hat, I'd have thought that for hot weather ops, something a lighter colour would be a wiser choice, i.e. tan or khaki (i.e. Tilley hat which is currently used).  Is this boonie hat meant to replace the ballcap which seems to be the standard working headware aboard ship?


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## Sub_Guy (10 Sep 2008)

The tac-vest looks will replace the war bags that Navy folks wear during work ups and other dangerous/high tempo ops.  IMHO the vest looks like it would be a heck of a lot easier to wear than the war bags belt.

Here I was thinking the rank placement on the new flight suits was weak, but that blue hat...  It takes the cake!


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## aesop081 (10 Sep 2008)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Here I was thinking the rank placement on the new flight suits was weak,



When the new flightsuit goes to general issue, the rank will not be located there.


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Sep 2008)

CTS, to my knowledge, had trials with the kit that was being looked at IIRC.  Was *any* of the NICE kit trialed at all?  Deployments to the Gulf, NATO, anything?  Has anyone actually trialed the kit?  Surely they aren't just going window-shopping and picking out kit like Christmas presents on Christmas Eve...fast and furious.

There is little info provided on the IntraNet sight, so I am hoping some sailors and Officers in the Navy can chime in here.


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## TN2IC (11 Sep 2008)

airmich said:
			
		

> For my navy friends... Run, don't walk!  ;D




Make sure you put down your safety scissors first.  ;D


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## medaid (12 Sep 2008)

Oh god... I think I just threw up in my mouth.

Why does the CF have hard ons for kit that are constantly the opposite of what the members need? I mean the FRACK vest looking thing, wooot it's MOLLE... but BAH! Again! It's that ugly Tac Vest design! WTF?!


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Sep 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Oh god... I think I just threw up in my mouth.
> 
> Why does the CF have hard ons for kit that are constantly the opposite of what the members need? I mean the FRACK vest looking thing, wooot it's MOLLE... but BAH! Again! It's that ugly Tac Vest design! WTF?!



Is there a better word than ugly? Ugly suggests you are rating it by its looks (a fashion statement) rather than judging it on what you see as the shortcomings of the TV design, which it got as a hand-me-down from Big Brother CTS...just a thought.


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## 1feral1 (12 Sep 2008)

NICE eh?

I wonder who many millions are spent for 'catchy' accronyms.

Good bloody gawd  :

OWDU


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Sep 2008)

As the NICE project doesn't have an Internet site yet, here are the contents of the IntraNet site for those without access, along with the some pics/links not already posted by CDN Aviator:


*Naval Improved Clothing and Equipment (NICE)*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome to the NICE web site. Here you will find the latest information about project deliverables, timeframes and priorities as well as the rationale behind the project.

*Project goal*
To provide state-of-the-art operational clothing and equipment to Naval personnel to promote interoperability and permit the conduct of joint and combined operations around the world.

*General Information*
Canadian governmental policy directs that the Canadian Forces (CF) participate in multilateral peace and stability operations anywhere in the world, and maintain multi-purpose combat-capable forces with a high degree of interoperability with our allies. This requires a modern task-tailored, globally deployable force that can respond quickly in joint or combined operations. Naval personnel must have appropriate clothing and equipment to carry out this demanding mandate. The Navy created the NICE project to address its own operational clothing requirements following the Army’s example of the Clothe The Soldier (CTS) project.

Previous operations have illustrated shortcomings in Naval clothing and equipment. The NICE project will address these issues, and will negate the recent practice of uncontrolled locally purchased clothing items. The items acquired under NICE will take advantage of technological improvements in material performance and clothing design since existing NAVAL garments were procured. These improved features include but are not limited to fire retardancy (FR), electro-static dissipation (ESD), moisture vapour permeability (MVP), and more effective insulation properties. 

*Items & Clothing *  
Here you will find a description of the items being acquired through the NICE project: 

1.  2-in-1 Rain suit/wind breaker  – Waterproof, static dissipative suit (2 pc) navy blue / black in color for wear as a walking out dress in hot weather and during cool, low relative humidity conditions. It will have thermal dissipative characteristics to be wearable from +10 to +25C. This item is expected to proceed directly to implementation. (no pic, but will likely be modified from the CCR).  I have seen one of the jackets, it is like the CCR but black, uses the NCD rank slip-on.)

2.  Boots – Hot Weather – Non-insulated  - (wearable to + 40C) safety boots (CSA Z195 Grade 1 Toe) with static dissipative or insulative penetration, POL resistant non-slip soles. A waterproof, Moisture Vapour Permeable (MVP) capability, either integral or as an issue sock is necessary. 

3.  Environmental Clothing  – It will be worn as field operational clothing in place of the current naval combat clothing. It will be the same as or similar to the Integrated Clothing Ensemble (ICE) currently being fielded by DSSPM. Suitable for Port Security and Base Defence Force duties as well as field clothing for Training Establishments CFFSE and CFNOS (anti-static, POL phobic). (no pic)

4.  Boots – Temperate Weather - Insulated  (wearable to –25C) safety boots (CSA Z195 Grade 1 Toe) with static dissipative or insulative penetration, POL resistant non-slip soles. A waterproof, Moisture Vapour Permeable (MVP) capability, either integral or as an issue sock is necessary 

5.  Coveralls Hot Weather  - Tan colour, lightweight (5.5 oz Nomex), fire retardant, anti-static one-piece coverall (MOTS). This item, currently in the naval inventory is required for additional issue to submariners and clearance divers. (no pic)

6.  Coveralls Temperate Weather  – Navy blue in colour (7.5 oz Nomex), fire retardant, anti-static one piece coverall (MOTS). This item, currently in the naval inventory is required for additional issue to submariners and clearance divers. (no pic)

7.  Socks  – This foot covering will incorporate the new wicking properties (e.g.: Cool Max) to ensure maximum anti-blister capability. (includes 3 layer sock system & hot weather sock)

8.  Thermal Underwear– The NICE issue of 5 shirts and 5 drawers to all naval personnel. (no pic)

9.  Gloves Cold/Wet Weather  – These gloves will be as per Clothe The Soldier combat gloves one (1) pair. (pic/info here)

10.  Ballistic Eyewear  – Ballistic Eyewear is required for universal issue to naval personnel including reserves, for protection from UV rays in both summer and winter. The lenses must be shatterproof and the frame compatible for wear with headsets, helmets and ear defenders.

11.  Ballistic Vest – Ballistic protection is required for ships' bridge personnel, Force Protection Teams, Naval Boarding Party and Port Security personnel. It is anticipated that this item can proceed directly to implementation. (no pic)

12.  Anti-flash Hoods & Gloves  – Protection is required for ships' personnel during action/emergency stations in the event of flash or fire resulting from incoming ordinance or domestic fire. NICE project will explore market improvements in FR materials. There will be no design change to the current hood and glove. (no pic)

13.  Hot Weather Hat – This headwear will be as per the CTS wide brimmed combat hat, except in Navy blue or natural in colour. Issue of this hat would be limited to personnel deploying on “Hot Weather” operations only. It is anticipated that this item can proceed directly to implementation. 

14.  Liner (removable) Navy Winter Parka  - The current Navy Winter Parka is acceptable for wear in temperatures of +15C to -10C. Naval personnel are subjected to extreme cold temperatures dipping to -40C. A removable liner would compliment the Navy Winter Parka and keep personnel comfortable in extreme cold temperatures. (no pic)

15.  Utility Vest  - Members on board ships need to be able to work in austere conditions during emergencies and the actual carrier (warbag) is not ergonomically suitable for all tasks. The new vest will provide comfort and be customizable to each member. 

16.  Drawers, Temperate Underwear (Unisex) – To provide the standard issue of 5 pairs. (info/pic here)

17.  “T” Shirts, Cotton, crewneck  – To provide the standard issue of 5 shirts each.  

*Comments*
Your comments, suggestions and ideas for additions or improvements to NICE purposed items of kit are greatly appreciated. Our goal is to provide you, the naval community, with the best possible solutions to your operational kit needs by the most economical means. To best do this we need to know what you, the end users, require.

Let us know what you think, your opinion matters. 

Email your comments to:  (email is on the website, I don't want to post here)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pic's not provided by CDN Aviator, or in the links above, are attached below.


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## R031button (12 Sep 2008)

woah woah woah... the navy.......... the navy gets a molle tac vest........ and the army... doesn't.... :-X There are some sick sick men at NDHQ.


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## Infanteer (12 Sep 2008)

Awesome - one thing I noticed; the US Navy looks alot better than us with our dumpy Navy Uniforms; these don't look much better.


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## Neill McKay (12 Sep 2008)

"3.  Environmental Clothing – It will be worn as field operational clothing in place of the current naval combat clothing. It will be the same as or similar to the Integrated Clothing Ensemble (ICE) currently being fielded by DSSPM. Suitable for Port Security and Base Defence Force duties as well as field clothing for Training Establishments CFFSE and CFNOS (anti-static, POL phobic)."

This reads a bit ambiguously:  does it mean that this new rig will replace NCDs in all cases, or only ashore?


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Sep 2008)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> "3.  Environmental Clothing – It will be worn as field operational clothing in place of the current naval combat clothing. *It will be the same as or similar to the Integrated Clothing Ensemble (ICE) currently being fielded by DSSPM*. Suitable for Port Security and Base Defence Force duties as well as field clothing for Training Establishments CFFSE and CFNOS (anti-static, POL phobic)."
> 
> This reads a bit ambiguously:  does it mean that this new rig will replace NCDs in all cases, or only ashore?



I have no idea...but I can PM you the contact #s on the IntraNet site at work Monday if you want (there is a Lt. Cmdr and CP02 listed).

In the event that you or others are not familiar , here is info on the Integrated Clothing Ensemble (ICE) from the Army CTS ICE website and the Air Force CEMS ICE website.


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## Nfld Sapper (12 Sep 2008)

R031button said:
			
		

> woah woah woah... the navy.......... the navy gets a molle tac vest........ and the army... doesn't.... :-X There are some sick sick men at NDHQ.



Indications I got from the MWO that was down here for the sizing of the rucks said that the "new tacvest" will have molle on it, also the combats will be modified too to add pockets to the sleeves.


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## FSTO (12 Sep 2008)

N. McKay said:
			
		

> "3.  Environmental Clothing – It will be worn as field operational clothing in place of the current naval combat clothing. It will be the same as or similar to the Integrated Clothing Ensemble (ICE) currently being fielded by DSSPM. Suitable for Port Security and Base Defence Force duties as well as field clothing for Training Establishments CFFSE and CFNOS (anti-static, POL phobic)."
> 
> This reads a bit ambiguously:  does it mean that this new rig will replace NCDs in all cases, or only ashore?


Basically it will be cadpat that the Navy will wear if they are out in the field. 

It was a bit of a clown show here last year because for years the Navy would wear the olive drab combats when we would go into the field (Heals Range, Bentinck Island, etc). Last few years though the old combats started to look pretty shabby and there was no replacement for them. So when we started to ask for cadpat we were told that they were for Army (and later Air Force ) pers only and since the Navy did not put up money for CADPAT there was no way in hell that the Navy would wear them. So all sorts of email traffic, SOCDs and begging and pleading went on and as a result this part of the NICE project came together. 

Meanwhile back at D211, the old combat clothing bin was cleaned out and the next thing we know, clothing stores is handing out CADPAT to Navy pers at CFFSE with not a word of protest from higher authority. Funny how things work out if you leave it alione.


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## - m i l l e y - (6 Mar 2009)

I am aware that this is an old form, however I have still not seen a picture of the new NCD's people are talking about and was wondering if anyone may be able to post a picture on here.

Thanks


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## Biggoals2bdone (30 Mar 2009)

As someone very interested in this, i'm bumping this, the day we get rid of the NCD's isn't soon enough.

Personally I would love to wear CADPAT, simply because, its already in the system, so no extra cost, its comfy, can take a beating and get dirty.

I know some people will come here shouting blasphemy that we need our square rig back and blah blah blah, and how camo on a ship is stupid.

Well Marines wear their camo on ships all the time, you calling of them stupid??
Like I said already in our system so it would totally simplify everything, and get rid of this "unwieldy" uniform.

I would say 98% of sailors dislike the NCD's, now thats not to say a distinctive naval ops uniform isn't what some would like, its just considering our budget...i'd rather spend our money on more important things, and instead just drop the NCD's and get CADPAT for everyone.

BUT, to satisfy all those people who want a special navy combat uniform, here are some suggestions.

This would be a GREAT idea in my opinion letting everyone know, here's a sailor, but also, i'm here to work. sharp looking, and easily identifiable as military, plus we know it exists...and could probably get it for a good price from the US.

http://www.uscg.mil/hr/udc/docs/odu08-update-2008-09-29-web/odu08-update-2008-09-29-web/longsleeve/images/_USCG103-FS-1home.gif

here's another one, and if you take the time to read ALL the text under the pic, it explains the choice, and one thing mentioned that I feel is worth while re-iterating, is that the camo combo, makes stains a lot less noticeable, everyone's worn cadpat we all know its true.
http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/military_photos_200410230.aspx

"They’re not designed to camouflage sailors into the background of a ship. They are supposed to be more practical, helping hide dirt, paint and grease spots better than solid-color utilities or coveralls."  taken from another site explaining some more the choice of uniform.

Look up ODU and NWU. 

Or you could go with something similar to the police's tactical pants, a quasi cargo pant, if you wanted to stay away from the bloused pants, maybe have a built in permanent crease for all you crease lovers.

And for god's sake no tucked in shirt...tucked in undershirt sure....but otherwise no


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## George Wallace (30 Mar 2009)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> And for god's sake no tucked in shirt...



 ???

I would have figured that a loose shirt flopping in the breeze would catch on too many items aboard ship.  I guess we want to go with the "Hairy Bag Look" then in your books?


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## hugh19 (30 Mar 2009)

Things would get ripped off constantly. Also when there was a fire that nice cadpat material would melt right into your skin. So excellent idea, well thought out, make the sailors look like soldiers. That will be great for morale too. :

Also the trial NCD pants have a sewn in crease. Plus they are cargo pants.


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## 30 for 30 (30 Mar 2009)

Go with that USCG uniform (top mostly worn tucked in from what I've seen), make it out of the right material. Shouldn't be complicated to produce. 

While new cargo pockets on the NCD trou are a step in the right direction, the fact remains that NCDs look sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

Are they getting rid of the pleats on the new NCD pants? The pleats look ridiculous.


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## hugh19 (30 Mar 2009)

I can't remember if the pleats are gone or not. I would prefer coveralls for the ship and some kind of undress uniform for working


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## geo (30 Mar 2009)

CADPAT looks sloppy as well.... what's your point.

I remember a time when we wore that green texaco workdress... a lot of people would steam press glue into the crease in order to have a "permanent" one.  Stitching the crease is just taking the glue trick to the next level.


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## Lumber (30 Mar 2009)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> I would say 98% of sailors dislike the NCD's...



I would say BS.




[Edit to add a "]" in the quote (code).]


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## medicineman (30 Mar 2009)

Well, this not so sailor actually likes his NCD's - never though I would say it.  I do also take great delight in driving chiefs insane with my CADPAT slip-ons  ;D.  I think it looks mentally challenged with the CADPAT and green T-shirts, but, I'm not ready to be called a PO yet...

As for the argument for CADPAT on the ships because Marines wear theirs, well, apples, meet oranges.  Marines are soldiers and therefore dress like them - it sets them apart from the crew of the ship, as they are supposed to be.  Don't forget, Marines are on ships (other than assault ships) for the purpose of security and in old times to put down mutiny, so therefore had to look apart from the crew to tell good guys from bad.  Besides, as someone mentioned and I'll retierate, combats have alot of polyester in them and therefore melt and stick to you and burn you in a fire - NCD's have some semblance of fire retardation to them. 

  :2c:

MM


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## dimsum (30 Mar 2009)

How about coveralls?  The RAN uses them, as well as boarding party and submariners.  As well, the Air Det uses them as well.


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## 30 for 30 (31 Mar 2009)

CADPAT and similarly-styled uniforms don't look as sloppy as NCDs. That's my point.


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## medaid (31 Mar 2009)

Marines are also in their Blue-Dress uniforms allot aboard ship. Would you like to stand around in your DEUs? No? Neither would I. 

Something tells me that our DEUs just don't look that good with a duty belt, pistol, and mag pouches attached to it. 

Oh! To everyone else that's saying that CADPAT burns? Well... there's CADPAT Nomex now too. Surprise, surprise?


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## aesop081 (31 Mar 2009)

MedTech said:
			
		

> there's CADPAT Nomex now too. Surprise, surprise?



In the end, NOMEX ( or other brands of FR clothing) burns too.


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## medaid (31 Mar 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> In the end, NOMEX ( or other brands of FR clothing) burns too.



True enough. I was addressing everyone's apparent belief that CADPAT bursts into flames upon contact.

CADPAT is the PATTERN of the camouflage, not the material the uniform is made out of. The two terms are not synonymous.


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## aesop081 (31 Mar 2009)

MedTech said:
			
		

> not the material the uniform is made out of.



The material that the combat uniform that a very vast majority of CF members wear ( in CADPAT) is made of materiel that will indeed burn well and melt to the skin.


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## medaid (31 Mar 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The material that the combat uniform that a very vast majority of CF members wear ( in CADPAT) is made of materiel that will indeed burn well and melt to the skin.



that's why I said that NOMEX in CADPAT now exists!   sheesh you're nit picking tonight!


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## Matt_Fisher (31 Mar 2009)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Marines are soldiers and therefore dress like them



Marines are NOT soldiers.  Marines are Marines, and as such hold themselves to a far greater standard of dress and deportment.   :camo:


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## Biggoals2bdone (31 Mar 2009)

To whoever said that my approximation of the % of sailors who dislike their NCD's well...that's how the cookie crumbles, pretty much all the sailors that I know PERSONALLY, hate the damn things, and can't wait to see them GONE.

I bet most of the people who responded to my comments didn't take the time to check out the pics and read the 2-3 paragraphs that go along with each picture.

so how about taking the time to actually LOOK before you judge.
As stated I think the Camo is awesome, for hiding grease and stains and what not, so it would work to our advantage.

Like many others have stated...Fire RETARDANT materials eventually burn, they aren't fire 100% proof.
You could easily make Nomex cadpat combats as someone else mentioned.  Furthermore the options I mentioned (pics included) are up to specs for their respective Navy standards in terms of FR.
This is the USN's new Navy Working Uniform





What about shipboard fire safety?  Or visibility and floatation in case of a Sailor
falling overboard?
No current Navy uniform in the seabag was developed purposefully to fight a shipboard fire or
to enhance visibility or floatation in the water.  Every Navy ship is equipped with Fire Fighting
Ensemble (FFE) and necessary personal protective equipment to combat shipboard fires, as
well as floatation gear with flares and dyes for those purposes.  

Navy uniforms are required to meet specific fire retardant standards, and these NWU concepts
also meet those requirements.    

The uniforms were developed keeping in mind that our Sailors must have a uniform that, if
necessary, can help resist a certain degree of intense heat without causing injury.
and this is the US Coast Guard's new uniform





For those that didn't bother to look.


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## medicineman (31 Mar 2009)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> Marines are NOT soldiers.  Marines are Marines, and as such hold themselves to a far greater standard of dress and deportment.   :camo:



You have a point Matt - perhaps I should have pointed out they weren't sailors - but then neither are the airmen and other non-Mariens that are soldiers aboard .  

As for the combat clothing portrayed, I'm willing to bet that  stuff is for sailors on shore/combat unit postings - such as corpsmen with the Marines.  The Navy obviously doesn't want to raise their social standards to those of the Marines and so wish to have their sailors looking distinctive in their own land combat dress that lives up to current military fashion trends (ie -  digital camouflage).  Of course, this only makes the medics look different from the riflemen...

I'll concede though that the dark blue utilities do look kinda cool and coveralls do have the added benfit of being a one piece garment that can be donned in a hurry.  There is however the aesthetic problem of people of girth wearing coveralls - they look pretty bad when someone has Dunlap's Disease.

MM


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## Biggoals2bdone (31 Mar 2009)

MedicineMan: i take it by your comment you didn't bother to look at the links I put up.

That uniform is replacing ALL other work uniforms except for desk/office jobs.  I'll get the exact words on here: 
"What about Sailors who operate in tactical environments, such as Seabees, SEALS?
The NWU concept is designed to be a working uniform, not a tactical uniform.   When Sailors
are working in tactical environments, such as the desert, or in the field, they will still be outfitted
with the appropriate tactical uniforms.  Part of the working uniform will include a Gore-Tex
parka as well as a turtleneck sweater to protect against adverse weather conditions."

"What about maintenance/care of these uniforms?
These year-round uniforms are intended to be wash-and-wear.  Future Navy ships are being
built without dry cleaning facilities; Sailors did not like the idea of putting an iron to a uniform in
which they are going to be doing heavy work.

By being able to take a uniform straight from the dryer and put up on the hanger for daily wear
is much more practical and appeasing to both Sailors’ busy schedule and pocketbook.

In addition, the camouflage pattern will permit mending of small rips in uniform fabric, saving
Sailors considerably in replacement costs."
- taken from http://www.new-navy-uniform.com/faq-nwu.html


"FM CNO WASHINGTON DC/

TO NAVADMIN
NAVADMIN 343/08

SUBJ/UNIFORM UPDATE//

1.  THIS NAVADMIN ANNOUNCES THE 24 MONTH FLEET ROLLOUT OF THE NEW
NAVY WORKING UNIFORM (NWU) BEGINNING DECEMBER 2008.  THE NWU IS A
BATTLE DRESS UTILITY STYLE UNIFORM CONSTRUCTED OF 50/50 PERCENT
NYLON/COTTON TWILL FABRIC.  IT IS A FOUR COLOR (DECK GRAY, HAZE GRAY,
BLACK AND NAVY BLUE) DIGITAL PATTERN DESIGN.  EMBEDDED THROUGHOUT THE
FABRIC ARE MINIATURIZED FEATURES OF THE SEAL OF THE NAVY FLAG WITH THE
LETTERS "USN"  DIRECTLY BENEATH IT.  THE SEAL INCLUDES AN ANCHOR, A THREE-MASTED
SQUARE RIGGED SHIP, AND AN EAGLE.  THE EMBLEM WILL BE ABBREVIATED "ACE",
WHICH STANDS FOR ANCHOR, USS CONSTITUTION, AND EAGLE.  

2.  *THE NWU IS INTENDED FOR YEAR-ROUND WEAR AND SHALL BE THE STANDARD
WORKING UNIFORM ASHORE.  THE NWU IS DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE MALE AND
FEMALE SAILORS AND TO FULFILL MULTI-FUNCTIONAL/GEOGRAPHICAL UNIFORM
REQUIREMENTS AT SEA AND ASHORE.  THE NWU WILL REPLACE WORKING UTILITIES,
TROPICAL WORKING UNIFORMS, WASH KHAKIS, WINTER WORKING BLUE, AVIATION
WORKING GREEN AND NON-TACTICAL/ENVIRONMENTAL USAGE OF CAMOUFLAGE
UTILITY UNIFORMS (CUU).*  IT IS ALSO DESIGNED TO MINIMIZE THE
REQUIREMENT FOR VARIOUS COLD WEATHER GEAR, AND TO ACCOMMODATE THE
PERSONNEL ARMOR SYSTEM FOR GROUND TROOPS (PASGT).  
APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY MAY PRESCRIBE PASGT ITEMS FOR WEAR WITH THE NWU.  
THE TERM "APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY" REFERS TO COMMANDERS, COMMANDING
OFFICERS, AND OFFICERS IN CHARGE.  THE MANDATORY WEAR DATE IS 31
DECEMBER 2010.  

3.  *OCCASION FOR WEAR.  THE NWU IS DESIGNED TO BE WORN IN ENVIRONMENTS
(AT SEA AND ASHORE) THAT DO NOT REQUIRE SPECIAL CLOTHING (E.G. FLIGHT,
FLIGHT DECK, ENGINE ROOM, ETC.). * 
UNLESS OTHERWISE PRESCRIBED BY THE REGIONAL COMMANDER, THE NWU IS
AUTHORIZED TO BE WORN AT ALL FACILITIES ON BASE, WHILE COMMUTING
TO/FROM WORK AND HOME VIA POV OR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, AND ON
GOVERNMENT/MILITARY CONTRACTED FLIGHTS TO OR FROM OCONUS LOCATIONS.  
ROUTINE STOPS WHILE COMMUTING ARE NOT AUTHORIZED.  
GENUINE EMERGENCIES, SUCH AS MEDICAL AND VEHICLE BREAKDOWNS, ARE THE
ONLY AUTHORIZED STOPS."

Taken from what is their equivalence to our CANFORGEN


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## Nfld Sapper (31 Mar 2009)

What the US does, does not equate to what the CF does.

IMHO stop trying to compare what works for the yanks with what we decided to do wrt Naval Dress.


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## Matt_Fisher (31 Mar 2009)

medicineman said:
			
		

> As for the combat clothing portrayed, I'm willing to bet that  stuff is for sailors on shore/combat unit postings - such as corpsmen with the Marines.  The Navy obviously doesn't want to raise their social standards to those of the Marines and so wish to have their sailors looking distinctive in their own land combat dress that lives up to current military fashion trends (ie -  digital camouflage).  Of course, this only makes the medics look different from the riflemen...



US Navy Corpsmen attached to the Fleet Marine Force are authorized to wear the Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform with the appropriate Naval rate and trade insignia, and are actually authorized to wear the US Marine Corps Service Uniform (our version of the green DEU) with their appropriate Naval rate and trade insignia (which is done in a specific colour and format for this uniform option).
The full uniform dress regulations for US Navy pers wearing Marine Corps uniforms can be accessed here:  http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/mcub/library/MCUR/URCH8.htm#UR8001

Out of all the US services, I still believe that the Navy has been somewhat the most intelligent in its development of a specific camouflage uniform, which is primarily designed for the realities of shipboard life.

In respect to shore based Naval pers and units, i.e. Seabees, Riverine Warfare units, etc. the Navy is adopting a generic version of Marpat temperate woodland and desert (without the printed Marine Corps emblem).


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## Biggoals2bdone (31 Mar 2009)

to Sapper..dude lay off, i've seen people spouting about oh we should do this or get that, from other countries, and don't see to many peopl ragging on them.

Besides, just because another country is using something, doesn't mean we CAN'T use it.

OMG not having to spend money on new uniforms, that were thought up by canadians and that are totally canadiannized.

Just like the whole Boot debacle, some ideas/notions from other country's military would work greatly to help us. I.E boots, if we got a boot allowance and got to pick from approved boots a-z it would be so easier, because different feet, different needs.


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## George Wallace (31 Mar 2009)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> to Sapper..dude lay off, i've seen people spouting about oh we should do this or get that, from other countries, and don't see to many peopl ragging on them.
> 
> Besides, just because another country is using something, doesn't mean we CAN'T use it.
> 
> ...



I know that Boat debacle was really something.  I kinda knew that their design would make them prone to electrical fires with the main board a the bottom of the hatch in the Sail.  As for an allowance; how big an allowance would you suggest the Navy ask for to keep these boats afloat and serviceable?


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## Biggoals2bdone (31 Mar 2009)

Geore i'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that you aren't being sarcastic or a smart ass, with that comment because I never mentioned BOAT...(every good sailor knows they are SHIPS not boats) i mentioned BOOTS the things that go on your feet.

aka black cadillacs


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## Nfld Sapper (31 Mar 2009)

Me thinks you should start using the spell checker.


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## medicineman (31 Mar 2009)

George, me thinks he didn't mean Boot as in "Das Boot", he meant black caddilacs for the feet, unless of course I've got to give my sense of humour a wake up call...

Matt - I bow to your expertise.  I did know the corpsmen were allowed to wear  the Marine combat uniforms - I didn't know about the service dress though.  Gunnies don't like Squids on their parades anymore than Army RSM's don't like Air Force or Navy guys on parade for their Troopings I guess?  Would certainly make them feel at home with the troops they support - though I'm sure there is some Navy Chief somewhere having a spinout over it.


Biggoals - my apologies, you're right, I didn't check your links.   Wouldn't be the first time I guy looked at something and shoved a size 10 in my mouth. 


MM


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## ff149 (31 Mar 2009)

The military firefighters have been looking at something similar for a couple of years now. We are trying to get away from the blue nomex coveralls going to cadpat or arid cadpat. From the discussion I had with a CWO last fall they are running into a problem with it. When they apply the cadpat design, it actually will cause the nomex to burn quicker then it normally would. They have run several tests and different materials and they seem to have it narrowed down to what the cadpat design is made from (not the material). They say they are getting close but they still have away to go. And until they get it to pass independent lab tests they don't want to start a large order (for the firefighters).


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## dimsum (31 Mar 2009)

Wouldn't firefighters want a uniform that would stand out....much like SAR Techs?


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## ff149 (31 Mar 2009)

We were saying pretty much the same thing. Somebody in the PMQs calls for help and a bunch of guys in cadpat show up, may confuse people. However on base 90% of the time we are in turn out gear (stands out pretty well). Their thought is more for deployed ops it would give us the protection of nomex without standing out in blue coveralls.


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## Eye In The Sky (3 Apr 2009)

ff149 said:
			
		

> We were saying pretty much the same thing. Somebody in the PMQs calls for help and a bunch of guys in cadpat show up, may confuse people. However on base 90% of the time we are in turn out gear (stands out pretty well). Their thought is more for deployed ops it would give us the protection of nomex without standing out in blue coveralls.



I thought that the big trucks with their disco lights and noise making thing-a-ma-jigs would be a give away that it was the Fire Department


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## CountDC (3 Apr 2009)

I have seen the new NCDs and around here everyone likes them.  There are some minor changes to be done due to recommendations from ship pers but overall they were given a pass mark by the ship pers. As with all things you will always have those that complain.  Most of the complaints I have ever heard about the current NCDs have been due to the shoddy workmanship on the shirts (the seams do not hold), the "balloon" shirt (must have been designed with an old time chief in mind - lots of room for the belly), and button pockets on the pants (does anyone actually still have the buttons??). I am sure that there will be complaints about the new ones too - my guess is the first will be the zippered jacket pocket vice the current snap - the snaps were much easier to open!! (the answer: the new pockets don't have a flap - the zipper is there as an option and does not have to be closed.)


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## Biggoals2bdone (6 Apr 2009)

Any idea on issuing time?


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## Sub_Guy (6 Apr 2009)

CountDC said:
			
		

> (the answer: the new pockets don't have a flap - the zipper is there as an option and does not have to be closed.)



I have seen naval personnel salivate when they see someone in a flight suit, why do you ask?

Zippers...  They seem to get "hard" looking for that rogue zipper...  I suspect that zipper on the pocket will have to be closed all the time.


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## CountDC (6 Apr 2009)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> I have seen naval personnel salivate when they see someone in a flight suit, why do you ask?
> 
> Zippers...  They seem to get "hard" looking for that rogue zipper...  I suspect that zipper on the pocket will have to be closed all the time.



According to the command chiefs office the zipper will not have to be closed all the time so until they change their tune I will stick with that.


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## Matt_Fisher (6 Apr 2009)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Matt - I bow to your expertise.  I did know the corpsmen were allowed to wear  the Marine combat uniforms - I didn't know about the service dress though.  Gunnies don't like Squids on their parades anymore than Army RSM's don't like Air Force or Navy guys on parade for their Troopings I guess?  Would certainly make them feel at home with the troops they support - though I'm sure there is some Navy Chief somewhere having a spinout over it.



Navy Corpsmen have had the option of wearing Marine Corps service dress for some time now (I'm thinking back to at Vietnam/Korea era...maybe WW2?) so it's more of a tradition for those attached to the FMF, however it is still up to the unit's decision to enforce dress regs and the decision of the individual to wear that uniform or not.

There are indeed probably some Chiefs out there that hate this, however there are also probably quite a few Chiefs from the 'Gator Navy' who'd prefer to maintain their Marine Corps affiliations as a source of pride and distinction.


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## CountDC (6 Apr 2009)

and from above:

•	The Minister has granted expenditure authority for the Naval Improved Clothing and Equipment (NICE) seaboot, the first project of a series of NICE projects that will provide a holistic skin-to-outer naval operational clothing ensemble for all geographical and environmental conditions.  The project will expand the scale of issue of the NICE seaboot to incorporate all shore-based naval personnel in non-seagoing positions.  This project will be “fast-tracked” through the clothing contract administered by Logistiks Unicorp, with expected issues to shore personnel beginning this fall.


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## Snakedoc (14 Apr 2009)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> How about coveralls?  The RAN uses them, as well as boarding party and submariners.  As well, the Air Det uses them as well.



Though I have no problem with the current NCD's (in fact I like them and the way they look), it looks like in addition to the USN, the RAN is also moving towards a 'camou' type uniform.  Not saying that the Canadian Navy should be copying other navies but its interesting to see what other navy's are doing around the world.


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## QAD (29 Apr 2009)

New NCD in picture !!

... :-\

http://www.forces.gc.ca./admmat/nice-ehma/itemsclothing-articleshabillement-eng.asp


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## Snakedoc (29 Apr 2009)

hmmm, i didn't think i'd say this but I think the camou type style is kinda growing on me.  The new NCD's in the posted picture actually kinda look sloppy IMO especially with no crease in the pants...


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## Privateer (29 Apr 2009)

That Navy / Marine name tape is unfortunate.


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## gcclarke (29 Apr 2009)

Privateer said:
			
		

> That Navy / Marine name tape is unfortunate.



I second that emotion. Other than that, overall I don't think it's too bad. Slightly lumpy, but that's hardly much of a change from the current ones. But that name tag... ugh.


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## RetiredRoyal (30 Apr 2009)

kinda looks like the security guard at polo park mall.


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## 30 for 30 (30 Apr 2009)

Thanks for posting the photo.

From what I can see it looks like an improvement. Jacket has a more modern look and the trousers don't look so baggy and sloppy. They don't appear to have those ridiculous pleats last seen on pants in the 80s. 

Give us another decade and I predict we'll see our own grey cadpat, years after the US and Aussies.


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## ltmaverick25 (30 Apr 2009)

I am starting to become a fan of the navy cammo patterns as well.  One thing is for sure, after being in the army 14 years then moving to the navy, I absolutely HATE NCDs...  As others have mentioned they do look extremely sloppy and in my own humble opinion, are worn sloppy by way too many.  The new NCD pic looks very similar - not impressive at all.  I have always been a firm beleiver that something as trivial as optics always plays an important role in military life.  Looking like a bag of slop is just bad form.  Though I still maintain the navy has the best looking DEUs.  Maybe there is a conspiracy to make us look bad in work dress to make up for our extreme sexiness in DEUs  ;D


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## Sub_Guy (30 Apr 2009)

The navy needs those super cool name tapes to distinguish itself from the security guards at the mall. 

I have to say I was against any type of cadpat for the navy, but now I am all for it.  The new design is almost identical to the old one except for sewn in creases, new pockets, and velcro for the Canadian flag, but no velrco for name tapes, specialty badges or the ships crest. 

It still looks sloppy.


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## Eye In The Sky (30 Apr 2009)

My first thought looking at the pic posted was how the white stitching on the boots make them look like some sort of bowling shoes.


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## CountDC (30 Apr 2009)

maybe it is the model .......or the cap badge.   ;D

Looked better on the chief here.


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## QAD (1 May 2009)




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## ltmaverick25 (1 May 2009)

What about the shirt, any pictures of that?  Or is it staying the same?


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## Matt_Fisher (1 May 2009)

If anybody has the contact details (phone # and email address) for the NICE project team, if they could PM them to me, I'd appreciate it greatly.

Project Manager (DSSPM 11) 
LCdr Gilles Maranda 

ILS Manager (DSSPM 11-2) 
CPO2 Dennis Rideout 

Thanks,

Matt


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## QAD (1 May 2009)

Shirt = same ugly thing


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## Snakedoc (1 May 2009)

thanks again for the pictures, the closer up ones do help to give a better idea of the new NCD's.  I have to say tho, as soon as I saw the pants, I did think 'mall security guard' lol.... the cargo pockets can functionally come in handy however.

I've personally become more of a fan of the camou version now...both from a functional and military presence standpoint


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## Matt_Fisher (1 May 2009)

Take the most common paint and grease stain colours found aboard ship and digitize them into a pixelated camouflage pattern.

For a Canadian Naval camouflage pattern, you could call it either NAVPAT, or CADPAT-N/M (Navy/Marine).


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## ltmaverick25 (1 May 2009)

Bah!  The shirt is the worst part of the whole thing.  I always feel like a postal worker when I wear NCDs.  I am convinced that the bureaucrats in Ottawa are conspiring to make us look as silly as possible!

And now that I think of it, the uniform with jacket on does look alot like a mall security employee.


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## Privateer (1 May 2009)

You could make the ship look like an S&M party cruise by piping dress on the upper deck as tactical vests (or whatever that thing is called), negative shirts and jackets.


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## FSTO (1 May 2009)

Privateer said:
			
		

> You could make the ship look like an S&M party cruise by piping dress on the upper deck as tactical vests (or whatever that thing is called), negative shirts and jackets.



Actually that "thing" is to replace the "Warbag". Previously the pouch (which carries a life vest) was carried around your waist and you also had an ammo pouch that held your anti-flash gear (and cookies too!). This was worn during action stations and was uncomfortable as hell!. This utility vest is a quantum leap in from that other piece of crap!


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## QAD (1 May 2009)

agree


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## Privateer (1 May 2009)

No argument.  I'm merely pointing out the fashion potential.


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## gcclarke (2 May 2009)

I'm just sorry that the following joke will no longer apply:

"Why is the navy the only environment without a Canadian flag on their shoulder? 
Because they know how to read."


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## Sub Standard (2 May 2009)

I'm just glad that since we don't use war bags in subs I won't have to wear that monstrosity of a vest either :rofl:


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## gcclarke (4 May 2009)

They do look a heck of a lot more convenient than the current war bags however. I'm quite willing to wear it if it means that I don't have to give up my daily shower.  Although I can't really say I'd mind some of that sub pay.


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## Gho57rid3r (3 Jun 2009)

Office Linebacker said:
			
		

> kinda looks like the security guard at polo park mall.



I literally fell out of my chair laughing when i read your post, only because it is so true!  Polo Park security guards are fashioned exactly like that, I wonder if i wore the new NCD's I could pass as one then.  HEHE thanks for the laugh


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## gcclarke (7 Oct 2009)

Since the original link that was posted to the NICE project int*er*net site appears to have died, I'm posting the new one.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/navalimprovedclothingandequipmentnice-equipementethabillementmaritimeamelioresehma-eng.asp


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## jollyjacktar (19 Dec 2010)

I realize that this topic has not been opened in the past year.   With all the bloody rain we have been experiencing in Halifax over the past few weeks or so I was once again wondering where the hell the new rain gear is in the distribution flow of things.  I have looked at the NICE official web page and see that some of the items have come to pass, such as the new boots, tee shirts and new NCD, however,  no time lines or updates are given.  Progress is great and appreciated but, damn it all I would really like to see something really useful such as decent rain gear.  I am getting sick of the Canary suit.  How hard can it be to make something in Black for us even if it had to come off the shelf ie Helly Hansen?  Do any of the folks out there in the Supply world locally know the present status?


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## Nuggs (7 Feb 2011)

Apparently the new boots (both cold weather and temperate) just became available.

edit: and they are actually very very comfortable, havn't even broken them in yet and so far awesome. Its weird though, the temperate ones, are solid material and the cold weather ones have mesh sides.


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## DinoSailor (7 Nov 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I realize that this topic has not been opened in the past year.   With all the bloody rain we have been experiencing in Halifax over the past few weeks or so I was once again wondering where the hell the new rain gear is in the distribution flow of things.



I have just recently been emailing with the nice people at NICE . The new RCN 2 in 1 Wind Raingear has started distribution to bases. According to the supply folks here is Esquimalt a very small quantity arrived on Mon, 06 Nov 12, but in only one size so no distribution yet. Too bad as we are coming into the monsoon season.

Another tidbit is there is a new hot weather seaboot WITH ZIPPERS on the horizon.

My conversation with the NICE project started when I went to the site and there are very few pictures of the equipment we are getting. You can find the official site at http://www.materiel.forces.gc.ca/en/nice.page.

I was informed that the project is having difficulties getting it's web site updated so I suggested that they use this forum to get info out, but unfortunately there seems to be some kind of legal issue with that :facepalm:.


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## jollyjacktar (7 Nov 2012)

The word from Base Cothing in Halifax is mid December.  I won't hold my breath as the nice officer that responded to my query during the summer period said that distribution was supposed to have commenced in June but was delayed until September...   It will come when it comes.


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## Blatchman (9 Mar 2013)

Good Day 

Could someone post the Regs for the new Rain Gear?

I do not have DWAN access.

Thank You


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Mar 2013)

They may depend on where you are....can you narrow that down some?  Base/Wing dress regs vary somewhat.


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## jollyjacktar (9 Mar 2013)

Blatch said:
			
		

> Good Day
> 
> Could someone post the Regs for the new Rain Gear?
> 
> ...



What is the regulations here in Halifax is that they are only to be worn in inclement weather,   or when such weather is expected,  not shipboard dress unless manning the brow, and is walking out dress only.   The proper nametag (new style), Cdn flag and rank slip on is to be worn with jacket.   I'll pm you what  we're subject to on Monday if you like.  Of course, as previously mentioned by other's, it might be different where you are.


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## Blatchman (9 Mar 2013)

I am in Halifax, I received via PM the BCPOs message from Feb. If there is anyother information out there I'll take it as well that would be great.

I pass it along to my fellow CIC Officers without DWAN access.

Thank You


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## Privateer (8 May 2013)

While this probably isn't a NICE item, the topic seemed close enough not to start a new thread:  I've heard that a new style of peak cap  - closer to RN design - may be issued to RCN personnel.  I was just wondering if anyone had any information on this, just for curiosity's sake.  Thanks.


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## jollyjacktar (8 May 2013)

Yes, I read something about it around 6+ months ago.  What will change as I understand is the beret will no longer be acceptable headgear in salt and peppers.  As the new type of peak cap will be so much more comfortable, there'll be no reason to not wear it.  One of the major changes is the hat will actually be molded to fit a human head (oval) vs a telephone pole as is at present.  It will also be lighter in weight etc.


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## Halifax Tar (8 May 2013)

I thought I read that its supposed to be the same as the RN hats...


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## jollyjacktar (8 May 2013)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> I thought I read that its supposed to be the same as the RN hats...



Yes very similar.  The RN headgear have all the attributes I mentioned above.


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## Privateer (8 May 2013)

For all ranks?


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## jollyjacktar (8 May 2013)

Privateer said:
			
		

> For all ranks?


As I was given to understand, applies to everyone.  

The beret will only survive for such things as Combats and NCD.  Bummer for guys like me as I hate the peak cap and only wear it when I must.


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## Blatchman (9 May 2013)

Good Day

I have heard of the new style peak cap for all ranks as well though thought it hasn't been confirmed. From what I understand it had received approval and was at the stage where a cost analysis was going to be done to see if it is a viable option. With the new RN Style cap as mentioned before Berets will no longer be authorized for wear in No. 3 orders of dress, The gold braid will be removed for A/Slt to Lt(N), It should be easier to pack and much more comfortable to wear. I also believe that the bowler style will change as well.


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## dapaterson (9 May 2013)

Why keep the bowler at all?  Why not have all sailors wear the same headdress regardless of gender?


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## Ostrozac (9 May 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Why keep the bowler at all?  Why not have all sailors wear the same headdress regardless of gender?



Good question. I don't know enough of about the history of hats, although I have spent almost my entire life wearing them.

And this isn't historically a Navy thing, as the Air Force and Army used to wear service cap/bowler cap, and so did the entire CF during the tri-service dress days. Why did the Canadian Forces adopt the bowler as a "ladies" hat? There doesn't seem anything traditionally feminine about the bowler, it was traditionally a men's hat (see "A Clockwork Orange"). What did female personnel wear as headdress in the pre-unification days?


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## Blatchman (9 May 2013)

Ostrozac said:
			
		

> What did female personnel wear as headdress in the pre-unification days?



Essentially a Bowler for officers and a different version of the White top see the attached Images.


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