# questions about officer duties, and pay grade



## hendrix23 (10 Aug 2015)

Hi, 

I'm interested in joining the armed forces as an officer but I have a couple basic questions.

1) It is my understanding that as an officer you have ~40 people working under you (correct me if I'm wrong).  Is there public speaking involved with respect to having to address this group of people?  I do take public speaking classes, but am not the biggest fan of it and wouldn't want to have to do it on a regular basis.  

2) With respect to non-commissioned officers, does everybody start at 'private'?  If someone were to have some skills and experience outside of the military can you start as a Corporal or Sergeant?  For example I have a degree, a diploma, and some work experience in my field (finance). 

Thanks.


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## Harris (10 Aug 2015)

hendrix23 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'm interested in joining the armed forces as an officer but I have a couple basic questions.
> 
> ...



Seriously?  All your questions have been answered a lot on these boards. Please use the search.

Quick and dirty answers:

1.  Depending on Rank and trade you could have anywhere from none to ~10 direct reports.  Also depending on rank you could have none to thousands working FOR you.  Pro tip: If you can't/won't speak in public, then perhaps the life of a Buddhist Monk is more your thing.

2.  Unless you are "special", like a Doctor, or Dentist, or perhaps a Lion Tamer, everyone generally starts as a private.  There may be some exceptions but they are few and far between.  Search these boards for more.


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## Ayrsayle (10 Aug 2015)

hendrix23 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'm interested in joining the armed forces as an officer but I have a couple basic questions.
> 
> ...


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## hendrix23 (10 Aug 2015)

Thank you for the information.  I googled these questions before joining the forum but didn't find much. I should have searched around here a bit more, but still am not finding much with respect to public speaking tbh. 

For the record though, I said I take classes in public speaking. Those require public speaking once a week. I'm not sure where this "Buddhist Monk" thing came from.  I would simply prefer to not have a job that has public speaking as a heavy component.  I'm pretty sure the vast majority of jobs in this world don't require speeches, and the vast majority of people wouldn't want a job that requires frequent public speaking.

I guess I should have been more specific.  Ayrsayle, when you say you should expect to give speeches, how often are you talking about?  Like I said, I currently public speak once a week.  I don't want to have to address 40+ people on a daily basis at work, but if I had to give a speech once every month or so that would be fine. 

Regardless, thank you for the information.


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2015)

hendrix23 said:
			
		

> For the record though, I said I take classes in public speaking.



In case you have not heard of them,

Toastmasters International
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toastmasters_International

“According to most studies, people's number one fear is public speaking. Number two is death. Death is number two. Does that sound right? This means to the average person, if you go to a funeral, you're better off in the casket than doing the eulogy.” 
― Jerry Seinfeld 

 ;D


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## hendrix23 (10 Aug 2015)

mariomike said:
			
		

> In case you have not heard of them,
> 
> Toastmasters International
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toastmasters_International
> ...



Thank you.  I'm currently a member of toastmasters, and have a speech next Thursday there! Somebody actually used that quote in their speech a couple weeks ago.


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## George Wallace (10 Aug 2015)

hendrix23 said:
			
		

> Thank you for the information.  I googled these questions before joining the forum but didn't find much. I should have searched around here a bit more, but still am not finding much with respect to public speaking tbh.



You will be required to do a lot of 'speaking' in front of varying numbers of people and varying people of importance throughout your military career.  It is to be expected.


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## mariomike (10 Aug 2015)

hendrix23 said:
			
		

> I'm currently a member of toastmasters, and have a speech next Thursday there!



Do they train you how to deal with Hecklers?  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTM252Zffq0


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## Ayrsayle (11 Aug 2015)

hendrix23 said:
			
		

> Thank you for the information.  I googled these questions before joining the forum but didn't find much. I should have searched around here a bit more, but still am not finding much with respect to public speaking tbh.
> 
> For the record though, I said I take classes in public speaking. Those require public speaking once a week. I'm not sure where this "Buddhist Monk" thing came from.  I would simply prefer to not have a job that has public speaking as a heavy component.  I'm pretty sure the vast majority of jobs in this world don't require speeches, and the vast majority of people wouldn't want a job that requires frequent public speaking.
> 
> ...



No one will be able to give you an exact number of "how many times" you'll need to give a speech.  If talking to a large group of people is something you'd rather avoid, being an officer in the CAF is not a good way to achieve that aim.  Sometimes the "speeches" are informal in your office with those who work with you, sometimes they are done on parade in front of hundreds.  Sometimes you will be an instructor and teach in a formal training setting, other times it will be an impromptu call out at a mess event.  You will give "speeches" with or without preparation (IE, have to be the center of attention in front of a number of people) fairly regularly.

For example - As a Platoon commander I usually spoke to my Platoon at least every other day - to let them know what was going on, what they needed to know, etc.  As a Company 2IC I would occasionaly stand in for my boss and speak to the Coy about roughly the same things (around 80 people).  As an Adjutant I am expected to brief information on the unit to the CO (several ranks above me - which may/may not be a source of stress for some people).

I think you might be approaching this question somewhat backward - while I'll concede that the military isnt for everyone and its a good idea to feel out the terrain before jumping in - a large part of our jobs, officer or NCM, centers around the idea that there is something to be done and everyone has something they are responsible for.  It may/will require you to be in uncomfortable places and situations and you need to be ready to accept that from day one.  (End rant).


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## Humphrey Bogart (11 Aug 2015)

You will need to be able to speak to people, full stop.  In the past five and a half years I've done everything from counsel inddividual soldiers to briefing a room full of General Officers and Colonels.  If you aren't comfortable with speaking to people than the officer corps might not be the best place for you.  :2c:


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## hendrix23 (11 Aug 2015)

Ayrsayle said:
			
		

> No one will be able to give you an exact number of "how many times" you'll need to give a speech.  If talking to a large group of people is something you'd rather avoid, being an officer in the CAF is not a good way to achieve that aim.  Sometimes the "speeches" are informal in your office with those who work with you, sometimes they are done on parade in front of hundreds.  Sometimes you will be an instructor and teach in a formal training setting, other times it will be an impromptu call out at a mess event.  You will give "speeches" with or without preparation (IE, have to be the center of attention in front of a number of people) fairly regularly.
> 
> For example - As a Platoon commander I usually spoke to my Platoon at least every other day - to let them know what was going on, what they needed to know, etc.  As a Company 2IC I would occasionaly stand in for my boss and speak to the Coy about roughly the same things (around 80 people).  As an Adjutant I am expected to brief information on the unit to the CO (several ranks above me - which may/may not be a source of stress for some people).
> 
> I think you might be approaching this question somewhat backward - while I'll concede that the military isnt for everyone and its a good idea to feel out the terrain before jumping in - a large part of our jobs, officer or NCM, centers around the idea that there is something to be done and everyone has something they are responsible for.  It may/will require you to be in uncomfortable places and situations and you need to be ready to accept that from day one.  (End rant).



I don't think that is a rant, I found your response very helpful and on point. 

I think what I am going to do is continue with toastmasters, and see where my public speaking skills get to. Then make a decision from there if it's something I would feel comfortable doing often, and if being an officer in the Canadian Armed Forces is right for me. 

Thanks again


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## Navy_Pete (11 Aug 2015)

I'm the archetype of an engineer; I used to be terrified of giving speeches, talking to people, and generally interacting with people.  Ever.

Ten years in, and I've got a team of over 50 people, spend most of my time talking with people, and regularily have to give briefings, speeches, tours etc to everyone from cadets to visiting flag officers.

It's not something you will get pushed into overnight, but getting out of your comfort zone is a very good thing, and although I've had a lot of stumbles along the way, getting pretty good at it.  Careers in the CAF aren't for everyone, but you don't have to be a superstar from the getgo, and we do have a pretty good system of getting people competent at high demand skill sets like being able to herd cats and accomplish miracles with no resources and impossible schedules.

If it's something you are interested in, apply for it; worse case scenario you'll have gotten a bit of experience applying to work in a large organization, and best case you'll join a pretty good bunch of people were you can challenge yourself to do new things all the time and find out a lot of things about yourself along the way!


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## shootemup604 (18 Aug 2015)

> 2.  Unless you are "special", like a Doctor, or Dentist, or perhaps a Lion Tamer, everyone generally starts as a private.  There may be some exceptions but they are few and far between.  Search these boards for more.



I have to ask now, what is the element and MOC for "Lion Tamer"?


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## George Wallace (18 Aug 2015)

shootemup604 said:
			
		

> I have to ask now, what is the element and MOC for "Lion Tamer"?



It is CLASSIFIED.  If we told you, we would have to kill you.


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## Pusser (19 Aug 2015)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It is CLASSIFIED.  If we told you, we would have to kill you.



By putting you in a cage with a lion...


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## Lumber (19 Aug 2015)

hendrix23 said:
			
		

> 2) With respect to non-commissioned officers, does everybody start at 'private'?  If someone were to have some skills and experience outside of the military can you start as a Corporal or Sergeant?  For example I have a degree, a diploma, and some work experience in my field (finance).



I don't know about the Army or AF, but in the Navy we have what are colloquially known as "Super-Stokers" (Marine Engineering Mechanics) and "Super-Techs" (Weapons Engineering Techs). These are NCMs, who upon enrollment are sent to college/university (don't know which) on the Queen's dime to take courses in their respective fields. For stokers it would be something along the lines of Marine Engineering Theory and Mechanics for Super-Stokers it would be something along the lines of Electronics Theory and Maintenance for the Super-Techs.

I'm pretty sure they go to school AFTER basic training, but I don't know the program that well.

The point is, once you get back from school, you are immediately promoted to Leading Seamen. They pay is much better, but everyone expects you to know what you're doing, but you don't. I on more than one occasion asked a LS Engineer how in the hell he didn't know how to use the Machinery Control Console (something they would have learned years before), and it was because he was a Super-Tech. Leading Seamen with only 2 weeks on a ship.


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## shootemup604 (19 Aug 2015)

> By putting you in a cage with a lion...



That must be the QL3 then?


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