# 22 Jul 11:  Explosion near Norwegian PM's office



## The Bread Guy

> At least one person was killed in the city centre blast, national broadcaster NRK reports.
> 
> The offices of Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg were damaged extensively but he was reportedly unharmed.
> 
> At least eight people were injured, local media said. No-one has said they were behind the explosion....


Source:  BBC, 22 Jul 11

Sooooo, Uigurs (again) or linked to indictment of Muslim cleric for death threats?


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## ballz

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/world-affairs/oslo-rocked-by-fatal-bomb-on-government-headquarters-0014304-1

Wow....


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## R933ex

New report of a gun battle at a labour party youth camp..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/jul/22/oslo-explosion-live-coverage


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## HavokFour

Prime minister Stoltenberg was supposed to have a speech on the island tomorrow at 11:00 AM. 

What the heck is going on over there.


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## Haletown

multiple links, including video taken nearby when the bomb went off

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/208715.php


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## Haletown

photos, some gruesome

http://www.demotix.com/news/763015/explosion-oslo-government-building-norway


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## OldSolduer

Haletown said:
			
		

> photos, some gruesome
> 
> http://www.demotix.com/news/763015/explosion-oslo-government-building-norway



I just looked at the photo on this link:

Jesus J Christ!!

Plus some guy shooting at a youth camp?? WTF??


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## The Bread Guy

If you want to track the Oslo attacks, here are some links:

European Commission news aggregator
Reuters
Agence France Presse
Google News:  Oslo


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## brihard

BBC is now reporting nine, possibly ten dead at the youth camp. Per Norwegian police.


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## The Bread Guy

> “I was shocked and intensely saddened to learn of the attacks in Oslo and Utøya today.
> 
> “We deeply regret the loss of life and injuries resulting from the explosion which occurred today in the government quarters, where the Prime Minister’s Office and other government offices are located.
> 
> "We were also horrified to learn that a gunman has opened fire at a youth camp at Utøya.
> 
> “Canada condemns these barbarous and senseless acts of violence and our thoughts and prayers are with the victims, witnesses and all those affected by these attacks.
> 
> “On behalf of all Canadians, Laureen and I wish to express Canada’s sincere condolences to Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and to the Norwegian people.
> 
> “Canada stands with Norway on this tragic day.”


Source:  PM statement, 22 Jul 11


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## chrism

CNN says the two ARE linked, and that they also found undetonated explosives at the youth camp.

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZTdCU7MiwE


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## OldSolduer

I sincerely hope the planners and people who executed this plan are hunted down and brought to justice. No doubt we will show them more mercy than they showed their victims.

 :rage:


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## Retired AF Guy

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I sincerely hope the planners and people who executed this plan are hunted down and brought to justice. No doubt we will show them more mercy than they showed their victims.
> 
> :rage:



May be a "lone wolf." The alleged killer has been ident as thirty-two-year-old Anders Behring Breivik. The death toll on the island may be as high as 80. 

While Al Qaida and a previous unknown Islamic group have claimed responsibility, there, is so far, nothing to indicate any connection to Islamic terrorist groups. Muslim clerics in Norway have condemned the killings.

Whoever is responsible they are some sick s.o.b.


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## vonGarvin

Just rounding up the news before bed.



> A "catastrophic" shooting massacre on an island outside Norway's capital Friday killed at least 80 people, police said early Saturday, much higher than the initial count released.



(Source here)


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## cupper

F@#$.

What insanity.


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## Teeps74

This whole situation in Norway is saddening. It is made worse by the rampant Islamophobia that lit up as a result, prior to the release of information that the suspect involved and named was none other then a white male Christian right winger.

It is shear madness that any human being can think that one changes political direction by targeting children. The shootings took place at a youth camp, where the ages were between 14 and 18.

A sad day for mankind indeed. Terrorism is a changing face. Extremism is the enemy.


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## Teeps74

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I sincerely hope the planners and people who executed this plan are hunted down and brought to justice. No doubt we will show them more mercy than they showed their victims.
> 
> :rage:



They now have a suspect in custody.  

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2011/07/22/18455171.html


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## Edward Campbell

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> This whole situation in Norway is saddening. It is made worse by the rampant Islamophobia that lit up as a result, prior to the release of information that the suspect involved and named was none other then a white male Christian right winger.
> 
> It is shear madness that any human being can think that one changes political direction by targeting children. The shootings took place at a youth camp, where the ages were between 14 and 18.
> 
> A sad day for mankind indeed. Terrorism is a changing face. Extremism is the enemy.




But, sad to say, going all the way back to the _Ma'alot_ massacre (and 1974) and going on until the spring of 2011, when there was a terror attack in the West Bank Jewish settlement of _Itamar_, where five members of one family, including three young children, were murdered in their sleep, attacks on children have been a hallmark of Arab terrorist groups.

But, I agree with, it is a sad day for all of us and barbarism is not limited to any one political or religious ideology.


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## Infanteer

86 people killed?  How do enough people stick around/not fight back that long for so many to die?


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## Teeps74

The types of Islamophobia found in the press and comment boards today are used as a recruiting vehicle for extremists to twist the minds of young vulnerable Muslims. Where ever terrorists strike, we must swiftly investigate it and yes, identify the problem where ever it may be. Part of that is dividing the guilty from the not guilty. 

Muslims are not terrorists. 

Just as Catholics are not child molesters. 

We must recognize the truth that the actions of the few should not colour the many. If anything, our brothers and sisters who are of Muslim creed need our support and caring, as today, despite the evidence, they are a target for retribution.


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## Edward Campbell

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> The types of Islamophobia found in the press and comment boards today are used as a recruiting vehicle for extremists to twist the minds of young vulnerable Muslims. Where ever terrorists strike, we must swiftly investigate it and yes, identify the problem where ever it may be. Part of that is dividing the guilty from the not guilty.
> 
> Muslims are not terrorists.
> 
> Just as Catholics are not child molesters.
> 
> We must recognize the truth that the actions of the few should not colour the many. If anything, our brothers and sisters who are of Muslim creed need our support and caring, as today, despite the evidence, they are a target for retribution.




I agree with you, Teeps74 but only in part - the part I have highlighted.

We do and and did not need to "reach out" to Catholics when they blow people up in Ireland, nor to Buddhists and Hindus who terrorized one another in Sri Lanka, nor to Muslims in Israel, Gaza, Pakistan or Afghanistan. We do know that most people, of every race, colour and creed just want to get on with their lives - we do not need to single anyone out just because they didn't throw _this_ bomb.

Now, to the point where we do agree: extremists must not be allowed to flourish in our society, in fact we should do everything we can, even taking some _unreasonable_ measures, to make sure that extremists - ethnic extremists, political extremists and religious extremists, too - find it impossible to flourish here and, in fact, damned hard to even exist. That goes for white supremacists, anti-globalization bank bombers, and those who promote ethnic and religious supremacy. I do oppose hate laws but I do not oppose _tormenting_ the haters with the 21st century equivalents of "tar and feather" and "run out of town on a rail."


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## canada94

Infanteer said:
			
		

> 86 people killed?  How do enough people stick around/not fight back that long for so many to die?



Have you seen photo's of the Island? Also CBC has reports from survivors that he was wearing a  police uniform and that he was a 6ft tall white Norwegian. Reports also say because he was in a police uniform he was able to convince people to collect together in groups.. I'm assuming that made it much easier for him to control the situation. Also seeing everyone on the Island where teenagers to early 20's when they saw a police officer they probably believed they would be in a safer area rather then... "I saw a policeman stand there with earplugs. He said 'I'd like to gather everyone'. Then he ran in and started shooting at people. We ran down toward the beach and began to swim." - CBC

Aerial Picture of the Island: http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ap_utoya_norway_shooting_jrs_110722_wg.jpg


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## Retired AF Guy

canada94 said:
			
		

> Have you seen photo's of the Island? Also CBC has reports from survivors that he was wearing a  police uniform and that he was a 6ft tall white Norwegian. Reports also say because he was in a police uniform he was able to convince people to collect together in groups.. I'm assuming that made it much easier for him to control the situation. Also seeing everyone on the Island where teenagers to early 20's when they saw a police officer they probably believed they would be in a safer area rather then... "I saw a policeman stand there with earplugs. He said 'I'd like to gather everyone'. Then he ran in and started shooting at people. We ran down toward the beach and began to swim." - CBC
> 
> Aerial Picture of the Island: http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ap_utoya_norway_shooting_jrs_110722_wg.jpg



Remember that there were several hundred kids on the island. Its small size would afford very few places to hide for that number of victims. They had no place to go and nothing to protect themselves with and I imagine very few boats or anything to else that the kids to use to escape.


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## Steve1987

I wonder how this will sit on the gun control debate.

One article says he was a member of a shooting club, so it is possible the gun (guns?) were legally obtained threw their strict firearms licensing.   Norway however does not allow concealed carry and is very strict on where guns can be used and stored, so there is no way to legally defend yourself in this situation. 

By the sounds of what I've read it seems if he simply went around shooting people completely unopposed until he ran out of ammo, and then was later apprehended by the authorities.  

Waiting to hear more on this incident, hopefully more info will become available. 

-Steve


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## The Bread Guy

Infanteer said:
			
		

> 86 people killed?  How do enough people stick around/not fight back that long for so many to die?


They were scared young people?  They didn't have military/martial arts/self-defence training?  They didn't expect to have to prepare for this at a youth Labour party camping trip?  Fish in a barrel on a tiny island?  They didn't know what else to do?  He killed all the ones who looked like they'd put up a fight first?

Just like with this incident, not having been there, I like to think I'd do the right thing, but I wouldn't second-guess those who didn't do anything because they were scared or didn't know what to do.


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## sean m

Here is the suspect' profile and picture

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259989

This is terrible to say but at least he is not Muslim, since this community has received a lot of negative attention (justified, unjustified).


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## canada94

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> Remember that there were several hundred kids on the island. Its small size would afford very few places to hide for that number of victims. They had no place to go and nothing to protect themselves with and I imagine very few boats or anything to else that the kids to use to escape.



I know that is what I was saying, I agree.! It sounds to hectic of a situation to expect anyone to be "heroic" and overcome the gunman. I just hope the injured recover and justice is served!


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## Fatalize

Curious why they had no security at all for that youth camp of 700, he was able to wait until the police arrived to surrender.

Hopefully the shooter gets what he deserves.


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## Infanteer

I fully understand that many of the victims were young and that there were no places to hide.  My question is more on the psychological/social nature of being a victim.

What differentiates between scrambling around while dozens of other people are being killed to simply await your turn, or being like Ginger.  Is it human nature or something bred into us by society?


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## canada94

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I fully understand that many of the victims were young and that there were no places to hide.  My question is more on the psychological/social nature of being a victim.
> 
> What differentiates between scrambling around while dozens of other people are being killed to simply await your turn, or being like Ginger.  Is it human nature or something bred into us by society?



IMO Ginger endangered everyone in that video by potentially aggravating the gunman. However I think just as most animal's in the wild, the easiest way to survive, is to hide. Just as the kids who "played dead" or hid behind rocks.. or tried to swim away. When you are a powerless 16 year old facing a man with an "automatic pistol" which NRK is reporting he was firing.. there is not much to do but run.. in my opinion. I'd like to think I would "fight back".. but as always it's MUCH easier said then done.


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## The Bread Guy

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I fully understand that many of the victims were young and that there were no places to hide.  My question is more on the psychological/social nature of being a victim.
> 
> What differentiates between scrambling around while dozens of other people are being killed to simply await your turn, or being like Ginger.  *Is it human nature or something bred into us by society?*


Seen - a lot to chew on there....

On an individual basis, I'm going to guess human nature would be to run away from a threat, hence the training and motivation needed for troops/cops to run _toward_ the threat.  This is also what makes those without the training who run to the threat more unique. 

If parents were there, though (guessing the parental instinct would cause one to move toward the threat to protect the kids), methinks it might have been different.


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## Infanteer

canada94 said:
			
		

> IMO Ginger endangered everyone in that video by potentially aggravating the gunman.



IMO you're wrong, and you would have had a different opinion had that man gunned down all those school board folks and Ginger died trying to fight him off.  If the other folks in that hall would have helped Ginger, they likely would have taken the guy down before he started shooting his pistol some time later.  The more Gingers, the less the lone-gunman has the oppurtunity to up his bodycount.



			
				milnews.ca said:
			
		

> On an individual basis, I'm going to guess human nature would be to run away from a threat, hence the training and motivation needed for troops/cops to run _toward_ the threat.  This is also what makes those without the training who run to the threat more unique.
> 
> If parents were there, though (guessing the parental instinct would cause one to move toward the threat to protect the kids), methinks it might have been different.



True.  I'd like to think that, after about the 58th person was gunned down that I would have convinced myself that fight would be better than flight.

I don't like to armchair this, but I here it is.  I'm just tired of seeing people being victims when there is a chance that they don't have to be.


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## canada94

Infanteer said:
			
		

> IMO you're wrong, and you would have had a different opinion had that man gunned down all those school board folks and Ginger died trying to fight him off.  If the other folks in that hall would have helped Ginger, they likely would have taken the guy down before he started shooting his pistol some time later.  The more Gingers, the less the lone-gunman has the oppurtunity to up his bodycount.
> 
> True.  I'd like to think that, after about the 58th person was gunned down that I would have convinced myself that fight would be better than flight.
> 
> I don't like to armchair this, but I here it is.  I'm just tired of seeing people being victims when there is a chance that they don't have to be.



Good sir, he did open fire on them. He just somehow missed, got into a gun fight then killed himself. The HERO was the man talking to him who had told the gunnman that he was the one who fired his wife, and tried to convince the gunman to free everyone but himself. However again, it's IMO.


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## The Bread Guy

Infanteer said:
			
		

> True.  I'd like to think that, after about the 58th person was gunned down that I would have convinced myself that fight would be better than flight.
> 
> I don't like to armchair this, but I here it is.  I'm just tired of seeing people being victims when there is a chance that they don't have to be.


I hear ya - it sucks, but not everyone is a sheepdog.


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## dapaterson

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I don't like to armchair this, but I here it is.  I'm just tired of seeing people being victims when there is a chance that they don't have to be.



See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre


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## lethalLemon

I think all of you are missing a very important piece to the shootings:

*THE GUNMAN WAS DRESSED AS A POLICE OFFICER AND BECKONED FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE CAMP TO GATHER AROUND HIM SO HE COULD SPEAK TO THEM. When they approached, he opened fire, killing them. Those that were not killed immediately began to run for the beaches in hopes of swimming away to safety. However the gunman shot them too.*


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## aesop081

lethalLemon said:
			
		

> I think all of you are missing a very important piece to the shootings:



No. I doubt they missed it and neither did I. Dressed like a cop or not, once he started shooting people, you would think someone would have stopped him from doing so.


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## SoldierInAYear

*WARNING*

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9230/kajghaade.jpg

*WARNING*

Imagine being those police officers.


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## canada94

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> No. I doubt they missed it and neither did I. Dressed like a cop or not, once he started shooting people, you would think someone would have stopped him from doing so.



Sorry. But that is a ridiculous comment. Much easier SAID THEN DONE.


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## dapaterson

canada94 said:
			
		

> Sorry. But that is a ridiculous comment. Much easier SAID THEN DONE.



It has been done.

But our social conditioning as sheep claims many victims.  Hence the men at the Polytechnique abandonned the women to Marc Lepine.


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## canada94

dapaterson said:
			
		

> It has been done.
> 
> But our social conditioning as sheep claims many victims.  Hence the men at the Polytechnique abandonned the women to Marc Lepine.



Exactly. My point proven. A whole needle in a hay stack.


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## aesop081

Here's another one for you then :

http://www.isaf.nato.int/article/isaf-releases/citizens-fight-back-against-insurgent-attack-at-mosque.html


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## VIChris

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Here's another one for you then :
> 
> http://www.isaf.nato.int/article/isaf-releases/citizens-fight-back-against-insurgent-attack-at-mosque.html



Can we really compare a mix of citizens from a long term war torn country to a bunch of kids from a generally peaceful country at a summer camp?


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## canada94

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Here's another one for you then :
> 
> http://www.isaf.nato.int/article/isaf-releases/citizens-fight-back-against-insurgent-attack-at-mosque.html



Where you at any of these situations? Did you see the actual perp's? Did you see their capabilities? Did you fight back? I don't see how pointing random moments of "heroism" proves these KIDS are in the wrong for not fighting back. Which is what you are making it seem. When I was 8 years old, I was outside my school in Belldune, NB when my mom an RCMP officer was approached with a man wielding an axe, no one "jumped" to save the day as everyone was scared for their life, they ran. Expecting anyone to do differently is insane and need's to realize that the average citizen doesn't "fight back" against nut jobs. My mom used her training and subdued the man. What I am trying to say is that you can't expect an average person to simply "fight back" .. especially without adequate equipment. These young men and women where up against a man much larger then the average frame, and also armed to the teeth. Expecting anyone to "save the day" is just ignorant. 

I am sure we can agree this is a sad incident. I don't want to argue about something like this, and the reason being is because, it is much easier said then done, to repel force. 

- Mike


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## Infanteer

Or here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

or here:

http://gunsafe.org/The%20Armed%20Citizen/Gun-shop%20employee.htm

or here:

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=e5fa0ec3-1ceb-4033-9a88-198008626097

Needless to say, there are plenty of examples of people opting for fight rather than flight.  Perhaps we need to look at why they did this?  Gun control or more surveillance isn't going to prevent a massacre, so we need to look at what will.


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## canada94

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Or here:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting
> 
> or here:
> 
> http://gunsafe.org/The%20Armed%20Citizen/Gun-shop%20employee.htm
> 
> or here:
> 
> http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=e5fa0ec3-1ceb-4033-9a88-198008626097
> 
> Needless to say, there are plenty of examples of people opting for fight rather than flight.  Perhaps we need to look at why they did this?  Gun control or more surveillance isn't going to prevent a massacre, so we need to look at what will.



Infanteer..

This is exactly what I have been saying. The first 2 stories had men that had equipment to easily kill the perp. I can 100% agree with you. If someone had a gun on the Island I am sure they would have attempted to kill the man. 

Also remember however he was wearing a police uniform.


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## Infanteer

canada94 said:
			
		

> This is exactly what I have been saying. The first 2 stories had men that had equipment to easily kill the perp. I can 100% agree with you. If someone had a gun on the Island I am sure they would have attempted to kill the man.



....bingo.  Thanks for bringing it up.  One teacher with a CCW can prevent a school/camp shooting from becoming a massacre.



> Also remember however he was wearing a police uniform.



That's a red herring that goes out the window as soon as he starts pumping rounds into the crowd.  The people in the stories linked above were "average citizens" until they started murdering people in public.


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## canada94

Infanteer said:
			
		

> ....bingo.  Thanks for bringing it up.  One teacher with a CCW can prevent a school/camp shooting from becoming a massacre.
> 
> That's a red herring that goes out the window as soon as he starts pumping rounds into the crowd.  The people in the stories linked above were "average citizens" until they started murdering people in public.



Yes. Way to twist my words. 


I am not going to say anything anymore other then, whoever say's the teenagers should have fought back is saying something much easier; 

Said then done.


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## vonGarvin

If I may interject, we don't know, but someone may have tried, but failed, to disarm this guy.  Maybe we just don't know because all the witnesses are now dead (except the shooter, of course).


But maybe Grossman has a point in that the majority of us are "sheep" and only a slim minority are "sheepdogs" or "wolves"?


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## Jarnhamar

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I sincerely hope the planners and people who executed this plan are hunted down and brought to justice. No doubt we will show them more mercy than they showed their victims.
> 
> :rage:



When someone steals your car they should be brought to justice.
These monsters should just be hunted down. I don't think we should afford them the same rights we do to other human beings.


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## PMedMoe

Not to detract from the thread topic, but check out the comment attached to this news story:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/07/official-youth-camp-shooter-norweigian/40318/

Wow......just.....wow......


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## Journeyman

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Wow......just.....wow......


I just had to hit <Like> at the bottom of the screen, but it doesn't then say how many others thought it was an insightful comment.   ;D


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## Brad Sallows

Everywhere I read people asking what the teenagers should have done.  I can't think of anything teenagers might reasonably be expected to do in practical terms except obey authority and/or flee, but I can conceive of what adult supervisors might do.  But the presence and number of adults seems to an unreported unknown.

From one of the linked articles: "...police inspector Bjoerne Erik Sem-Jacobsen told Reuters. "We don't know how many people were on the island, therefore we have to search further.""

They can't verify attendance?

This all strikes me as odd.


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## The Bread Guy

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> They can't verify attendance?
> 
> This all strikes me as odd.


Keep in mind this was apparently a teenage camping trip arranged by the ruling Labour party's youth wing - we don't know how firm or fluid the invite list was.



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Not to detract from the thread topic, but check out the comment attached to this news story:
> http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/07/official-youth-camp-shooter-norweigian/40318/
> Wow......just.....wow......


Wonder how "moderated" the comments are?

Meanwhile, here's a timeline from the Associated Press:


> —3:26 p.m.: A car bomb explodes outside the prime minister's office in central Oslo.
> 
> —Around 4:50 p.m.: Vacationers at a campground begin to hear shooting across the lake on Utoya, an island where the youth wing of the Labor Party is being held.
> 
> —5:26 p.m.: Police in Buskerud receive call about shooting on Utoya.
> 
> —5:30 p.m.: Buskerud police alert Oslo, request SWAT team.
> 
> —5:38 p.m.: SWAT team is dispatched from Oslo. It drives, deciding that starting a police helicopter would take longer.
> 
> —By 6 p.m.: The team arrives at the lake, but it struggles to find a boat to cross over.
> 
> —6:25 p.m.: The SWAT team arrives on the island.
> 
> —6:27 p.m.: Suspect puts down weapons and surrenders to police.


I know we rarely see/hear everything through media accounts, but a police tactical team based in a port city that heads to a call on an island without its _own_ boat?

_Edited to add part in orange above._


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## JesseWZ

Also, 36 minutes between people hearing shooting and the police being notified? I wonder if there is a lot of hunting/ranges in the area for it to be dismissed like that.


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## the 48th regulator

Technoviking said:
			
		

> If I may interject, we don't know, but someone may have tried, but failed, to disarm this guy.  Maybe we just don't know because all the witnesses are now dead (except the shooter, of course).
> 
> 
> But maybe Grossman has a point in that the majority of us are "sheep" and only a slim minority are "sheepdogs" or "wolves"?




Grossman also talks about this exact situation.  He goes into details about the Beslan School massacre, and the Columbine massacre.  We have all been conditioned to save ourselves from a fire, however in North America alone, we have lost more students to Gunfire, than an actual fire.

He actually professes that we should all be trained what to do in these types of situations, so that we can minimize the threat, and casualties.

dileas

tess


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## Old Sweat

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> Also, 36 minutes between people hearing shooting and the police being notified? I wonder if there is a lot of hunting/ranges in the area for it to be dismissed like that.


I would wonder if there is a 911 system in place? There apparently were lots of cell phones and other devices on the island, as there were a number of calls and texts to parents, etc.


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## muskrat89

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,776287,00.html



> But Marcel did. "I just acted," he says. He saw more and more people jumping into the water from the rocks on the shore and looked through a telescope at the island. Suddenly, he saw the attacker, squatting on a rock with his weapon raised. Eyewitnesses later said that he also shot at those who had already managed to jump into the water.
> 
> "There were people swimming everywhere in the water," Marcel says. "I threw them lifejackets and pulled those into the boat who were having the most trouble. Everyone was screaming, but they were also helping each other." They screamed, they cried, but they also hugged each other for courage. "It was unbelievable to see how strong they were," Marcel says.
> 
> The 32-year-old took his boat out into the water again and again, collecting more people and bringing them back to the jetty. There, additional helpers were waiting, and several other campers with their boats were also pulling teenagers out of the water. Marcel guesses that he alone was able to bring 20 of them to the shore, he doesn't know exactly how many anymore.
> 
> 'Goes Without Saying'
> 
> Some of the teenagers seemed not to want to be saved by the campers from the other shore. They screamed "don't come too close" or "do you want to kill us?" The reason only came to light the next day. "The attacker was so cynical that he called out to the young people and promised that he would save them," a Norwegian man, who had likewise pulled people out of the water, says.
> 
> Psychologists who arrived at the campground after the massacre ended expressed amazement at how well organized the campers were. When the shooting started, many of them put their small children in their cars so that they wouldn't realize what was going on. One man drove many of the freezing teenagers to the campground office to warm up.
> 
> 
> In total, the campers at Utvika managed to pull 150 people out of the water. "Still, many of them feel guilty," says psychiatrist Kirsti Oscarson. "The think only of the people they had to leave behind because they didn't fit in the boat and not about the ones whose lives they saved." Her job now is to ensure them that their thoughts in such a situation are completely normal, Oscarson says.


----------



## mariomike

BBC
"Mr Sponheim confirmed that the maximum time Mr Breivik could face in prison under Norwegian law is 21 years.":
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14266815

Edit to add.

Time July, 2010
"Sentenced to Serving the Good Life in Norway: Inside the world's most humane prison":
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2000920,00.html


"Halden, the newest high-security prison in Norway, aims to rehabilitate criminals with comfortable and thoroughly modern facilities. From en-suite bathrooms to a professional recording studio, it's a gentler kind of justice":
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html


----------



## SoldierInAYear

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> Also, 36 minutes between people hearing shooting and the police being notified? I wonder if there is a lot of hunting/ranges in the area for it to be dismissed like that.



Apprently they thought it was games on the island, I'll try to find the source for you.


----------



## brihard

I think what scares me the most is that as horrific as it all is, he was able in some way to arrive at this rationally. We call him sick- and if there were no precise disorder that covers this we would be forced to create one, because we can't allow for the possibility that this is *not* the work of a diseased mind. But a human being apparently in full or near full possession of his faculties arrived at this as a course of action that made sense, and all of the ideology that allowed it to happen is still out there. It speaks to the incredibly corupting power that ideas can have.


----------



## Nemo888

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> I would wonder if there is a 911 system in place? There apparently were lots of cell phones and other devices on the island, as there were a number of calls and texts to parents, etc.



Classic distraction and good planning of an ambush. He chose a long weekend, so police staffing was already stretched. The bomb blast on a high profile downtown target with the possibility of more bombs going off tied up the entire force. Then he dresses as a police officer to further enhance the confusion. The police, or at least someone dressed as one, were already there.

Thankfully the terrorists we usually deal with at home are incompetent losers. One man on a mission can do a hell of a lot of damage.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Thankfully the terrorists we usually deal with at home, thus far, are incompetent losers. One man on a mission can do a hell of a lot of damage.



Added a small addition.

Don't be complacent.

dileas

tess


----------



## OldSolduer

Nemo888 said:
			
		

> Classic distraction and good planning of an ambush. He chose a long weekend, so police staffing was already stretched. The bomb blast on a high profile downtown target with the possibility of more bombs going off tied up the entire force. Then he dresses as a police officer to further enhance the confusion. The police, or at least someone dressed as one, were already there.
> 
> Thankfully the terrorists we usually deal with at home are incompetent losers. One man on a mission can do a hell of a lot of damage.



Don't count your chickens. Dollars to donuts there are some out there who have learned from this and MAY be planning to attempt something like that here.

We only catch the stupid ones.


----------



## brihard

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Don't count your chickens. Dollars to donuts there are some out there who have learned from this and MAY be planning to attempt something like that here.
> 
> We only catch the stupid ones.



It has now been demonstrated what a single person can do under the right circumstances. This will definitely be a 'lessons learned' for the bad guys. This degree of preparation, with, say, a Mumbai scale of manpower- I cringe at the thought.


----------



## Old Sweat

The challenge for the security forces is that it is really hard to infiltrate a one person plot. See Lee Harvey Oswald or Lee Hinckley, Jr or any other of a number of alientated losers.


----------



## brihard

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> The challenge for the security forces is that it is really hard to infiltrate a one person plot. See Lee Harvey Oswald or Lee Hinckley, Jr or any other of a number of alientated losers.



Yup. And to what extent are we willing to risk more intrusion on our lives, or more restriction on our freedoms in order to potentially get a marginal increase in our security? I think their PM did an excellent thing, immediately setting the tone that this would not be allowed to hurt Norway's democracy or openness. It's an interesting contrast with, say, us or the U.S.


----------



## OldSolduer

I don't think we can ever 100% get the "lone gunman" or lone "nut". There's always one or two out there.


----------



## brihard

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> I don't think we can ever 100% get the "lone gunman" or lone "nut". There's always one or two out there.



Yup. We need to be right every damned time. Some nutcase only has to get lucky once. We'll never bat a thousand.


----------



## the 48th regulator

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/07/25/anders-behring-breivik-plotted-norway-massacre-for-nine-years-115875-23295128/#ixzz1T4mf1MPq


Anders Behring Breivik plotted Norway massacre for nine years








by Ryan Parry, Daily Mirror

Calculating Anders Behring Breivik planned meticulously for nine years before carrying out his sickening killing spree in Norway.

He has revealed he spent £280,000 plotting the atrocity. And even kept aside £1,750 to pay for a high-class prostitute before the attacks.

Breivik, 32, shot dead at least 86 people at a youth camp on Utoya island on Friday and murdered another seven with a car bomb in the capital Oslo.
Advertisement >>

He laid out his evil plot in precise detail in a twisted blueprint posted online hours before the killings.

The revelation came as it emerged he used dum-dum bullets designed to disintegrate inside his victims’ bodies to cause maximum internal damage.

Breivik’s 1,500-page manifesto revealed his preparations for the attacks and detailed his extremist views.

He wrote: “There are situations where cruelty is necessary.” And added it was better to “kill too many than not enough”.

*Breivik also posted a YouTube video calling for conservatives to “embrace martyrdom” in a fight against Islam. (Link at end of article)*

The video shows Breivik posing in a wetsuit and pointing a weapon. On the video he said his attack would “be awesome as people will be astonished”.

Yesterday police plucked more bodies out of the lake surrounding the island. Police say six people are still missing and the search continues.

Dr Colin Poole, head of surgery at Ringriket Hospital in Honefoss, Norway, revealed that surgeons treating 16 gunshot victims had recovered only tiny fragments of bullets.

He said: “These bullets more or less exploded inside the body. All the energy of the bullets was deposited inside the tissue. They inflicted internal damage that’s absolutely horrible.”

And as more details of the massacre emerged, Breivik’s lawyer, Geir Lippestad, said his client would address a court hearing today about what he had done.

The lawyer added: “He said he believed the actions were atrocious, but that in his head they were necessary.”

Breivik has “admitted his guilt to the actual facts,” the lawyer said.

The video, called Knights Templar 2083, featured parts of his sick manifesto – A European Declaration of Independence – in which he vows revenge on those he accuses of betraying Europe.

“We, the free indigenous peoples of Europe, hereby declare a pre-emptive war on all cultural Marxist/multiculturalist elites of Western Europe.

“We know who you are, where you live and we are coming for you.

“We are in the process of flagging every multiculturalist traitor in Western Europe. You will be punished for your treasonous acts against Europe and Europeans.”

He continued: “There are situations in which cruelty is necessary... the preferred method is to attack in a violent and deceptive form (shock attack).

“It is better to kill too many than not enough, or you risk reducing the desired ideological impact of the strike.”

He added: “Do not apologise or express regret – you are acting in self-defence or in a pre-emptive manner.”

Writing under the name Andrew Berwick, an anglicised version of his name, he spoke of five years of research before four years of setting up businesses to fund his attacks.

Calling himself The Crusader, Breivik, who admits being scared of spiders and who sometimes wore make-up, said: “The first drop of rain marks the coming of an unstoppable cultural conservative tidal wave.

“It will cleanse Western Europe of cultural Marxism and will result in the banishment of Islam for the third time.” After a 2002 visit to London, where he met the Knights Templar, Breivik’s sickening plan secretly swung into action.

And in a diary beginning in April, he documents the months leading to the massacre. In May, Breivik had six tons of fertiliser delivered to the barn at the remote farm 80 miles north of Oslo where he was hatching his plot. He used kitchen blenders and a concrete mixer to grind the fertiliser pellets so he could fit more into the car bomb he was building. On May 14 he took some time out and wrote: “It’s the Eurovision finale today. I love Eurovision.”

On June 13 Breivik tested a bomb with a small detonation at an isolated spot.

A week later the plot was almost exposed when the farm owner’s girlfriend texted him saying she was on her way to pick up something from the barn. A worried Breivik wrote in his diary: “Omfg; considering the fact that it’s a 2-2.5 hour’s drive from the capital she would be here in about half an hour!!! I’m so f**ked!

“It seems I will be left no choice than to use my glock and initiate the evacuation plan!” But hemanaged to put her off for two days, giving him enough time to clear the barn before her arrival. The diary signs off: “I believe this will be my last entry. It is now Fri July 22nd, 12.51.”

Despite his evil plot, he still had lunch with his mum every Sunday.

Yesterday Breivik’s dad Jens, who is in his 70s and living in France, was preparing to travel to Norway, where he will be met by police. “I view this atrocity with absolute horror,” said Mr Breivik, a retired diplomat who worked at the Norwegian embassy in London and Paris.

Mr Breivik has been estranged from his son for at least 16 years.

Those who know the killer yesterday painted a picture of a typical blond-haired, blue-eyed Norwegian boy brought up in wealthy Skoyen, three miles west of the centre of Oslo. He spent his youth playing football and listening to music and lived in a £250,000 two-bedroom apartment with his family.

After the break up of his parents, Breivik had his first brush with the law, aged 13, when he was fined by police for painting graffiti on walls. His childhood friends have revealed how he was just a “fun, life-loving boy”.

But a friend, who lived doors away from Breivik, said the killer’s attitude towards life changed when he hit his late teens. He said: “He was just like an ordinary boy but with the years passing he isolated himself more and seemed more distant.

“That was in the mid-90s and after that he didn’t talk to me any more.”

At 18, Breivik refused to join the army – a mandatory requirement in Norway – because he “disagreed” with the country’s politics.

A picture also emerged yesterday of the killer apparently with mum, Wenche, and sister Elisabeth at her wedding. Last night police were still on high alert as two tons of fertiliser were still missing from Breivik’s farm.

Police raided an industrial unit in central Oslo and arrested six Polish men. But it transpired they had no connection to Breivik.




Knights Templar 2083 by Anders Behring Breivik - Oslo killer


----------



## OldSolduer

Funny thing - he mentions the Knights Templar, who's original mission was to protect the pilgrims that were attacked often on their journey to the Holy Land.

What a perversion of a noble calling, besmirching the name of a group who's mission it was to protect the weak and innocent. 

Good job, and there will be those out there that beleive his line of crap.

I hope he rots........in...you know where.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Holy frack with the manifesto (7.7 MB PDF, +1500 pages) - downloadable here.



			
				Brihard said:
			
		

> .... to what extent are we willing to risk more intrusion on our lives, or more restriction on our freedoms in order to potentially get a marginal increase in our security?


Zackly.


----------



## 57Chevy

Another twist to this story:

Was the Norway massacre a reaction to the boycott Israel campaign? 
Gilad Atzmon/25 July
http://www.redress.cc/global/gatzmon20110725

Gilad Atzmon highlights Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik’s enthusiastic support for Israel and the sympathy he has received from Israelis and, in the light of this, asks whether Breivik might have been a “Sabbath Goy” responding to the Norwegian Workers Youth League’s – to which all of his victims belonged – backing for the boycott Israel campaign.

 I learned last night from an Israeli online journal that two days before the Utoya Island massacre, the leader of the ruling Norwegian Labour Party’s youth wing, the Workers Youth League (AUF), EskilPedersen,
                                                                                         (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskil_Pedersen)
gave an interview to Dagbladet, Norway's second largest tabloid newspaper, in which he unveiled what he thinks of Israel.

 In the course of the interview, Pedersen stated that he “believes the time has come for more drastic measures against Israel, and [that he] wants the foreign minister to impose an economic boycott against the country”.

Pederson went on to say, “The peace process goes nowhere, and though the whole world expect Israel to comply, they do not. We in Labour Youth will have a unilateral economic embargo of Israel from the Norwegian side.”

The Workers’ Youth League has been devoted promoters of the boycott Israel campaign, According to Dagbladet, “The AUF has long been a supporter of an international boycott of Israel, but the decision at the last congress demands that Norway impose a unilateral economic embargo on the country and it must be stricter than before.”

 “I acknowledge that this is a drastic measure,” stated Pedersen,“but I think it gives a clear indication that, quite simply, we are tired of Israel's behaviour.”

Murderer Anders Behring Breivik – an enthusiastic supporter of Israel
                  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik)

On 23 July, we also learned that mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik was openly enthusiastic about Israel. According to a variety of internet outlets, Behring Breivik was a regular poster on several Norwegian internet sites, notably the blog Document.no, [[ document ]] which is run by Hans Rustad, a former left-wing journalist. Hans Rustad is Jewish, extremely pro-Zionist, and warns against “Islamization”, violence and other social problems he assumes to be connected with Muslim immigration.

 The observant among us are becoming increasingly aware of a growing trend of pro-war Zionist internet journals and blogs, such as the UK’s neo-conservative and infamously Islamophobic Harry’s Place, that ostensibly like to give the impression of “rallying for the preservation of Western culture” and of “standing up for democratic values”. For the most obvious of reasons, these sites are almost exclusively focused on “the problem of Islam” and the Muslim migrants’ “troubled and reactionary” communities and politics, while simultaneously, relentlessly and forcefully propounding a propagandistic Zionist agenda. Interestingly enough, other immigrants are routinely depicted on these blog pages as being “harmless”, or as “positive contributors to society” – you won’t find Hans Rustad or Harry Place criticizing the Jewish lobbies, the likes of Lord Levy or the Russian oligarchs’ disastrous impact on “Western culture” and “democratic values” any time soon.

”Signature of an intelligence agency”

Gordon Duff wrote in “Veterans Today” on 23 July that the “car bombing carries the signature of an intelligence agency. Nobody else bothers with such things.”

Indeed, it is pretty clear that a car bomb of such magnitude, and an operation of such sophistication is not exactly something a layman can put together with such apparent ease: it would surely take some specialist knowledge, and the question here is, who could provide such knowledge, and such a vast amount of lethal explosives?

 I am not in a position at present firmly to point a finger at Israel, its agents or its sayanim – but assembling the information together and considering all possibilities may suggest that Anders Behring Breivik might indeed, have been a  Sabbath Goy.

 Within the Judaic, mundane-societal context, the role of the Sabbath Goy is to accomplish some minor tasks the Jews cannot undertake during the Sabbath. But within the Zionized reality we tragically enough live in,the Sabbath Goy kills for the Jewish state. He may even do it voluntarily.

 Being an admirer of Israel, Behring Breivik does appear to have treated his fellow countrymen in the same way that the Israeli armed forces treats Palestinian

Israeli support for the Utoya Island massacre

Devastatingly enough, in Israel Behring Breivik has found a few enthusiastic followers who praised his action against the Norwegian youth. In the Hebrew article that reported about the AUF camp being pro Palestinian and supportive of the boycott Israel Boycott campaign, I found the following comments among other expressions of support for the massacre:


24. Oslo criminals paid.

26. It's stupid and evil not to desire death for those who call to boycott Israel.

41. Hitler Youth members killed in the bombing of Germany were also innocent. Let us all cry about the terrible evil bombardment carried out by the Allies… We have a bunch of haters of Israel meeting in a country that hates Israel in a conference that endorses the boycott.. So it's not okay, not nice, really a tragedy for families, and we condemn the act itself, but to cry about it? Come on. We Jews are not Christians. In the Jewish religion there is no obligation to love or mourn for the enemy.

As yet, the full facts of the Norwegian tragedy are unknown. But the message should by now be transparently and urgently clear to all of us: Western intelligence agencies must immediately crackdown on Israeli and Zionist operators in our midst, and regarding the terrible events of the weekend, it must be made absolutely clear who it was that spread such hate and promoted such terror, and exactly for what reasons.


                                               Shared with provisions of The Copyright Act


----------



## The Bread Guy

Some quick updates:  Judge orders suspect held in isolation (solitary, no TV, papers, visitors) for (4 weeks? 8 weeks?) after suspect pleads not guilty and tells court two more cells may be working with him.


----------



## 57Chevy

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Some quick updates



excerpt

....he has admitted the facts, although not "criminal responsibility," according to interrogators — have triggered calls for Norway to reinstate the death penalty


The maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years, meaning — if found guilty — the accused could be awarded just 82 days per killing.


Norway famously shot wartime Nazi collaborating leader Vidkun Quisling for high treason in 1945

Full article: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Norway+mass+killing+suspect+remand+hearing+ends/5153319/story.html#ixzz1T7r7Pr4N


----------



## WingsofFury

I appreciate all the reading provided, but perhaps it would be better to use another font colour than yellow??


----------



## SoldierInAYear

Disgusting



> He said: “These bullets more or less exploded inside the body. All the energy of the bullets was deposited inside the tissue. They inflicted internal damage that’s absolutely horrible.”


----------



## Container

57 Chevy:

Im not sure what are your remarks and what are from the article. But fertilizer bombs are not complex- and thats a pretty far leap in logic to go from being a supporter of Israel to being in cahoots with Israeli intelligence that pushed him to murder children.

I expect that from Iran not from rational Army.ca folks.


----------



## canada94

Paul_Ontario said:
			
		

> Disgusting



Yes that made me shreak. Sick.


----------



## 57Chevy

Container said:
			
		

> 57 Chevy:
> 
> Im not sure what are your remarks and what are from the article. But fertilizer bombs are not complex- and thats a pretty far leap in logic to go from being a supporter of Israel to being in cahoots with Israeli intelligence that pushed him to murder children.
> 
> I expect that from Iran not from rational Army.ca folks.



Mr. Container,  
Be rational  
Except for adding the wiki links, I did not write the article.


----------



## Container

Sorry!

I realize it now when I opened the link. Its pretty confusingly written- I like when musicians write about how sophisticated explosives are. And how no one but intelligence agencies use car bombs.

Thats second one might be my new stupidist quote winner.


----------



## benny88

As thirsty as we all are for information on this, I'm glad he has not been given a soap box from which to spread his garbage. I won't be watching that video or even glancing at his "manifesto."

These acts were a publicity stunt of sorts. Many nutjobs in shootings like this seem to take suicide-by-cop or turn their weapons on themselves once cornered. This scum didn't, seemingly so he could get his message across. Don't let him; lock him away and put the effort and attention where it belongs: supporting the victims and families, and in an AAR to learn how to get there faster next time.


----------



## 57Chevy

benny88 said:
			
		

> lock him away



I'm thinking Norway should, and may very well...


			
				57Chevy said:
			
		

> ...reinstate the death penalty...



then make an example for the whole world to bear witness. 

Maybe then, IMO, a real message will get across.


----------



## jollyjacktar

This guy has proven himself to be dangerous to the public and society at large.  If there was any sense in Norway he should be swiftly examined for head space and timing, be found wanting and given the One flew over the Cuckoo's nest solution or From Hell's if you will and thrown into a padded cell for the remainder of his days.  That way he won't be given the opportunity to ever step on a soap box to spread his poison and thus no longer be a threat to society.


----------



## HavokFour

I have to ask. What exactly do they _do_ at this camp?

Yes, I saw the story about Glenn Beck comparing it to the Hitler Youth. I've just never heard of political parties running camps like this until the Massacre. ???


----------



## vonGarvin

Pretty well most groups, political or otherwise, have youth camps like this.


----------



## The Bread Guy

HavokFour said:
			
		

> I have to ask. What exactly do they _do_ at this camp?


Sounds like part convention, part "party school", part camping trip....


> .... Debates, lectures, and regular summer camp stuff. Approximately 700 Labor Party enthusiasts between the ages of 14 and 25 descend on Utøya every year during summer break. The four-day event receives national media attention, and prominent Labor politicians make a point of addressing the group. (Former Prime Minister and party legend Gro Harlem Brundtland spoke on Friday and was among Breivik's primary targets, but she left the island before the killer arrived.) In addition to the lectures and debates, the campers play soccer, swim, share communal meals, and hold concerts. It's also widely known as a good place for singles to find that special, like-minded someone.
> 
> Unless they're responsible for running the meetings, campers are expected to bring their own tents and sleeping bags. There's a nominal fee to defray the cost of meals, but most attendees spend more money traveling to Utøya than at the camp itself.
> 
> The Labor Party isn't technically the organizer of the summer camp. Like other Norwegian political parties, Labor has a separate youth organization. It's known as the Arbeidernes Ungdomsfylking, or AUF, and it boasts around 10,000 members. A union confederation gave the island of Utøya to AUF in the early 1950s, and they immediately began using it for the summer gathering. (Outside groups can rent the island for meetings and events.)
> 
> Other Norwegian parties hold summer camps, but they're not nearly as well-established as AUF's event. Gatherings for the Progress and Conservative parties draw fewer people and typically last only two or three days. They're also irregular, whereas AUF's camp has been held annually for decades.
> 
> College Democrats at any U.S. university would probably be able to jump right into some of the political debates at the AUF summer camp. Norway's involvement in the war in Afghanistan has been somewhat divisive inside the party for years, for example, as have farm subsidies. Other debates include whether Norway should join the European Union ....


Source:  Slate, 25 Jul 11



> .... One prominent casualty was Monica Bosei, 45, director of Norway's Maritime Museum. She was a staunch member of the Labour Party, sometimes tipped for cabinet office, and valued as a talent-spotter. *She ran the summer camp for years and encouraged constituency offices across the country to send their best and brightest to Utoya.  Shaped by political workshops, encouraged by visiting political leaders, taught how to improve their rhetorical skills*, the children of Utoya were being groomed for great things. Ms Bosei played a key role in the regeneration of the Left in Norway. Little wonder serving politicians were keen to send their offspring to the island .... Every section of the Labour Party, made up of mainstream Scandinavian social democrats, was represented at *the summer school*. Roald Linaker, a powerful regional Labour figure, lost his son Gunnar, aged 23. One friend described Gunnar as "witty, forthright, a real potential leader" ....


Source:  _The Australian_, 27 Jul 11

Also, here's the party youth wing's page on the event in Norwegian (Google Translate gives a decent broad-strokes read in English) - not much too, too controversial in the agenda, either (Google translation into English here).

And as for security on the island, and did anybody confront the shooter, this tidbit from Al Jazeera English:


> .... Earl Sandbakken, the 19-year-old deputy chairman of the Labour party in the city of Baerum, took the ferry and watched as Bosei engaged Breivik in conversation. She had heard about the bombing in Oslo and was asking questions of Breivik, who was wearing a police uniform.
> 
> Breivik appeared stiff-backed and nervous. He said he could not say much, Sandbakken said.
> 
> Bosei was suspicious. When the ferry arrived at Utoya, she walked directly to the main house and spoke with Trond Berntsen, a former policeman who was working as a guard at the camp. She probably wanted to share her suspicions, Sandbakken said.
> 
> Breivik trailed Bosei. He saw what was happening, took out a gun and fatally shot both, his first victims on the island, Sandbakken said.
> 
> Jon Olsen, Bosei's partner, saw Breivik shoot Bosei. Bosei's 16-year-old daughter and her friend were also present. Olsen rushed Bosei's daughter to safety, but Breivik shot the friend.
> 
> *Trond Berntsen, 51, was a ex-police officer who had worked in an immigration unit and, earlier, in the drugs section of the Upper Spokes sheriff's office. *
> 
> He was also the stepbrother to Crown Princess Mette-Marit, whose mother had married Berntsen's father in 1994. Berntsen and his brother had quarrelled with Mett-Marit's mother over their father's inheritance after his death in 2008.
> 
> *Berntsen reportedly had served as an unarmed guard at Utoya several times before, and the program distributed before the youth summer camp had said there would be police on the island.
> 
> Police confirmed that a former officer had been present on the island, but said he did not have a weapon or body armour.*
> 
> After Bosei approached with her suspicions of Breivik, Berntsen, a former champion boxer, confronted the man.
> 
> According to accounts, Breivik quickly shot and killed Berntsen. At some point during the confrontation, Berntsen threw his 10-year-old son, who had accompanied him to the island, to safety, the newspaper Verdens Gang reported ....


----------



## canada94

HavokFour said:
			
		

> I have to ask. What exactly do they _do_ at this camp?
> 
> Yes, I saw the story about Glenn Beck comparing it to the Hitler Youth. I've just never heard of political parties running camps like this until the Massacre. ???



I don't know where but I remember reading about the camp being a leadership and team building style camp, but I might be wrong...


----------



## Teeps74

HavokFour said:
			
		

> I have to ask. What exactly do they _do_ at this camp?
> 
> Yes, I saw the story about Glenn Beck comparing it to the Hitler Youth. I've just never heard of political parties running camps like this until the Massacre. ???



Leave it to the sorry lying sack of garbage Beck to capitalize on tragedy in such a truly dishonest, disgusting and hypocritical way.

EDIT TO ADD:  What truly irks me, is how Glen Beck himself helped create several similar youth political groups under the 9/12 banner, as indicated in the attached article to which I responded. The hypocrisy of that man knows no bounds.


----------



## DBA

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> Leave it to the sorry lying sack of garbage Beck to capitalize on tragedy in such a truly dishonest, disgusting and hypocritical way.
> 
> EDIT TO ADD:  What truly irks me, is how Glen Beck himself helped create several similar youth political groups under the 9/12 banner, as indicated in the attached article to which I responded. The hypocrisy of that man knows no bounds.



An ignorant statement can be countered with knowledge. Your hate filled diatribe is a lot harder to counter. I would suggest your statement is worse overall in effect than his.


----------



## Journeyman

DBA said:
			
		

> I would suggest your statement is worse overall in effect than his.


I have to disagree because Beck likely has a much larger audience share than Teeps74


----------



## mariomike

Infanteer said:
			
		

> One teacher with a CCW can prevent a school/camp shooting from becoming a massacre.



More on that, if interested...
Topic: "When mass killers meet armed resistance.":
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/60111.0.html

7 pages.

Regarding CCW. Although such permits are extremely rare in Ontario, I do recall a case when a Toronto politician shot and wounded a suspect who was attempting to rob his bakery in the early 1990's. He had a "protection-of-life" permit. He received a lot of public support, and Metro Police declined to lay charges against him.


----------



## Teeps74

DBA said:
			
		

> An ignorant statement can be countered with knowledge. Your hate filled diatribe is a lot harder to counter. I would suggest your statement is worse overall in effect than his.



Say what? Did you read the article? Beck, who sponsors political youth camps, likened the camp where children were murdered to the Nazi Youth.

First off, yes, the Nazis got elected on a mildly leftist platform. But once they took power, they veered very hard right. And now we have the hatemonger Beck calling this collection of children a Nazi Youth camp because they belonged to a youth Labour organization? It is dispicable, dissgusting and totally dishonest for a man, who personally started the 9/12 Project for youth to claim that he knows nothing of this sort of thing...

I guess some people just feel the need to sympathize with Tea Baggers.


----------



## Brad Sallows

>First off, yes, the Nazis got elected on a mildly leftist platform. But once they took power, they veered very hard right. 

Grow a brain.  I'm hard right, and nowhere near being a Nazi.  Wherever the Nazis belong on the spectrum, it is not on the right (individualism) side.


----------



## Teeps74

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> >First off, yes, the Nazis got elected on a mildly leftist platform. But once they took power, they veered very hard right.
> 
> Grow a brain.  I'm hard right, and nowhere near being a Nazi.  Wherever the Nazis belong on the spectrum, it is not on the right (individualism) side.



Anyone with half a brain understands that they were no where near the left end of the spectrum either. The "Final Solution" is not a leftist ideal.

Glen Beck is playing much closer to the Nazi playing field then the Norwegian Labour Party. Beck dropped off the edge of right wing some time ago.


----------



## Gimpy

Edit:


			
				Technoviking said:
			
		

> How did this go "Godwin" on us?  It matters not what political stripe/spectrum that nazis, commies or even libertarians are.  All that matters is this: some ultra-nationalistic and xenophobic monster plotted and slaughtered dozens of innocents.
> 
> Go argue the philosophy of templating various political stripes elsewhere, please.
> 
> Technoviking
> _As Mentor_



I agree and am sorry to have played a part in the derail. Not the place, or time for this kind of discussion at all.


----------



## vonGarvin

How did this go "Godwin" on us?  It matters not what political stripe/spectrum that nazis, commies or even libertarians are.  All that matters is this: some ultra-nationalistic and xenophobic monster plotted and slaughtered dozens of innocents.

Go argue the philosophy of templating various political stripes elsewhere, please.

Technoviking
_As Mentor_


----------



## the 48th regulator

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> Anyone with half a brain understands that they were no where near the left end of the spectrum either. The "Final Solution" is not a leftist ideal.



Yet Stalin did clean out his AOR of a hell of a lot more people, than Hitler ever did.

dileas

tess


----------



## The Bread Guy

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Yet Stalin and many of his successors did clean out his AOR of a hell of a lot more people, than Hitler ever did.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess


FTFY


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Back on track people. We're talking about current events in Norway.

Milnet.ca Staff



_edit = spelling_


----------



## OldSolduer

Technoviking said:
			
		

> How did this go "Godwin" on us?  It matters not what political stripe/spectrum that nazis, commies or even libertarians are.  All that matters is this: some ultra-nationalistic and xenophobic monster plotted and slaughtered dozens of innocents.
> 
> Go argue the philosophy of templating various political stripes elsewhere, please.
> 
> Technoviking
> _As Mentor_



And I fully agree with TV. Debating Communists vs Nazis is not helping. We should be agreeing that this is one of the most reprehensible, cowardly acts of the 21st century, and MUST be denounced.


----------



## tomahawk6

The main activity at the Utoya Island Meeting were mock "Break the Israel blockade" games. One event was Palestinian aide boats would try to break the Israel blockage. Whoever gets through first wins. The sign says "defeat the blockade" (opphev blokkaden - Gaza)


----------



## bossi

Yes, I despise armchair quarterbacks, but ... this whole massacre bugs me so much, I've got to add my three cents' worth.  I've just read a newspaper report critical of police response time (Norwegian police only had on helicopter, and the pilot was on vacation).  Approx 20 years ago I floated a proposal to create a pool of helicopters we could draw upon if needed ... so maybe it's time to think this over again ... just sayin' ...  

"... At first this caused some alarm amongst the terrorists. They studied these helicopters through their binoculars, reading the letters *"CAFA"* on the fuselages. Looking like giant bumblebees this ragtag collection of blue, yellow, orange, red and other-coloured helicopters could not possibly pose any threat. They came and went randomly, hovering for only a few seconds here and there, landing occasionally for an instant and then seemingly scurrying away.

The terrorists concluded that this flying circus must be chartered aircraft from some television station *"CAFA" *ferrying cameramen and reporters around the airport perimeter. After all, they reasoned, no police or military force in their right mind would fly these brightly painted aircraft in broad daylight on a counter-terrorist mission, would they? Placated, they paid less attention to these civilian helicopters and scanned the skies instead for dark, menacing, combat aircraft. ...

The terrorist lookouts didn't realize that the sniper rounds which silenced the leader were also the signal to open fire for the infantry platoons. Worming their way through tall grass, crawling forward an inch at a time, the soldiers had travelled a fair distance from where the *Canadian Air Force Auxiliary (CAFA)* helicopters had touched down only long enough for each fireteam to throw themselves to the ground. ..."

http://www.ducimus.com/Archive/cafa.html


----------



## Fishbone Jones

I'll not make the warning again.

We will stick to the current Norwegien current event.

The Nazis & Stalin do not belong in this thread.

Milnet.ca Staff

Welcome back Bossi. Hang around a bit longer this time


----------



## canada94

This article gave me the chills.. I couldn't even imagine being in this situation..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/07/27/norway-text-message-exchange.html


----------



## Retired AF Guy

Has anyone seen any info on what type of firearm(s) were used in the shootings? There is picture of the killer with what looks like a Ruger Mini-14, but its so decked out (two flashlights!!) its kind of hard to tell. Its appears he used a rifle and with all the shooting he did it must of had a large magazine capacity (aforementioned Ruger?). Some reports also mentioned a shotgun may have been used.


----------



## canada94

Retired AF Guy said:
			
		

> Has anyone seen any info on what type of firearm(s) were used in the shootings? There is picture of the killer with what looks like a Ruger Mini-14, but its so decked out (two flashlights!!) its kind of hard to tell. Its appears he used a rifle and with all the shooting he did it must of had a large magazine capacity (aforementioned Ruger?). Some reports also mentioned a shotgun may have been used.




"The official said the gunman used both automatic weapons and handguns"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/22/utoya-norway-shooting-terror_n_907069.html

I read somewhere else that he had a bag he hid his weapons within. What specific weapon's he used, I don't know, this is specific as I have read.


----------



## Retired AF Guy

I did a little research into Norwegian gun laws and found  this report  that states Breivik had legally registered a Ruger semi-automatic rifle (Ruger Mini-14) for deer hunting.


----------



## bossi

Carrying on with my ranting about being able to "commandeer" civilian helicopters in an emergency ...

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1031300--cameraman-didn-t-realize-he-had-captured-norway-killer-on-tape?bn=1

OSLO, Norway — A TV cameraman who captured the only known images of the gunman during his shooting rampage at a political youth camp in Norway says he had no idea at the time that the killer was in his viewfinder.

Marius Arnesen, a cameraman for Norwegian public broadcaster NRK, was in a helicopter hovering more than 200 meters over Utoya island, where panicked youth were being massacred as they fled into the water on Friday. 

At the time, Arnesen says, he didn't realize the scale of the disaster, in which at least 68 people were mortally wounded.

"We were circling the island taking shots of the island," he told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "It looked empty, so at first I thought police had evacuated the island. Then we saw people swimming and floating in the water. And then we started slowly realizing what was going on."

He zoomed in on a part of the island where people had jumped into the water.

"It's really hard to hold a camera still and get the framing right. So I just zoomed in and tried to hold it still for 3 seconds," Arnesen said.

His images show a man in dark clothing surrounded by bodies piled up on the shore and in the water. NRK released them to other media after blurring out the victims so they could not be identified.

As the helicopter left to refuel, Arnesen still wasn't quite sure what was on his tape, he said.

It wasn't until the next morning, when NRK editors were going through his images frame by frame, that they realized they had video of Anders Behring Breivik, the 32-year-old Norwegian who has confessed to the shooting and a bombing hours earlier in Oslo's government district.

"I got a call saying, 'just to let you know you've captured the killer,'" Arnesen said.

*The fact that the NRK helicopter arrived before the police SWAT team that arrested Breivik has sparked criticism over the police response. Relatives of people on the island have also questioned whether the NRK helicopter put people in graver danger.
*
Marianne Bremnes, whose 16-year-old daughter Julie was cowering on the island during the shooting, says her daughter came out of her hiding place "and waved her pink rain jacket" because she thought the helicopter was there to rescue her.

"If she had been at the wrong spot she would have been killed, since the police had not arrived yet and the gunman was not arrested," Bremnes said by telephone from Harstad in northern Norway on Wednesday. She said her daughter survived the massacre but lost five of her friends.

"In my opinion, the press should have stayed away until the police arrived so that they could know what was going on," Bremnes said. "There should be some ethical guidelines for how they operate, although I understand the press has an important role to play."

Arnesen said thoughts were running through his mind about ways to help.

"I think you always think those thoughts and then somewhere in your mind you realize it's impossible," he said. "There was nowhere we could land with the helicopter — we knew there was a gunman walking around there. You just try to focus on your job."
- 30 -


----------



## mariomike

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> We have all been conditioned to save ourselves from a fire, however in North America alone, we have lost more students to Gunfire, than an actual fire.
> He actually professes that we should all be trained what to do in these types of situations, so that we can minimize the threat, and casualties.



School fire safety lessons were learned the hard way. Walter Cronkite responded to a school explosion-fire early in his career as a reporter. He was quoted as saying decades later, "I did nothing in my studies nor in my life to prepare me for a story of the magnitude of that New London ( Texas ) tragedy, nor has any story since that awful day equaled it." 

School shooting drills:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=87o&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=school+shooting+drills&oq=school+shooting+drills&aq=f&aqi=g1g-b3&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=133370l134230l0l135311l5l5l1l0l0l0l209l591l1.2.1l4l0


----------



## the 48th regulator

mariomike said:
			
		

> School fire safety lessons were learned the hard way. Walter Cronkite responded to a school explosion-fire early in his career as a reporter. He was quoted as saying decades later, "I did nothing in my studies nor in my life to prepare me for a story of the magnitude of that New London ( Texas ) tragedy, nor has any story since that awful day equaled it."



In the same way were are learning a hard lesson about shootings in school.  What greater target of tearror than the place where our children are all collected.  A supposed safe place.



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> School shooting drills:
> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=87o&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=school+shooting+drills&oq=school+shooting+drills&aq=f&aqi=g1g-b3&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=133370l134230l0l135311l5l5l1l0l0l0l209l591l1.2.1l4l0



Meh,

I would rather rely on Dave Grossman's view, as opposed to googlefu;

http://www.killology.com/vitae.htm

Preparing for School Attacks


dileas

tess


----------



## canada94

We do have "lock-down" practices at my school.. essentially, we lock the doors, and hide underneath our desk until police arrive..


----------



## mariomike

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I would rather rely on Dave Grossman's view, as opposed to googlefu;



When possible, I prefer not to rely on just one man's point of view. There's lots of experts.


----------



## ballz

canada94 said:
			
		

> We do have "lock-down" practices at my school.. essentially, we lock the doors, and hide underneath our desk until police arrive..



I remember doing a few of those in school. What a stupid idea... talk about encouraging people to be sheep.

Apparently the schools haven't heard about a lock only keeping out an honest man and all that jazz... Our classroom doors had huge friggin' windows for god's sake.


----------



## Infanteer

mariomike said:
			
		

> When possible, I prefer not to rely on just one man's point of view. There's lots of experts.



Especially when a lot of what Dave Grossman says isn't exactly right.


----------



## ballz

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Especially when a lot of what Dave Grossman says isn't exactly right.



Some of the stuff about martial arts is pure bull$#!+... I don't know much about the rest of his topics, but the one subject I do have some knowledge of and could have it confirmed, I confirmed it was complete BS. After that, I couldn't finish reading the book because I couldn't hold much weight with what he said after his whole "gouging a person's eye with your thumb and swirling it around in their brain" stuff.


----------



## canada94

ballz said:
			
		

> I remember doing a few of those in school. What a stupid idea... talk about encouraging people to be sheep.
> 
> Apparently the schools haven't heard about a lock only keeping out an honest man and all that jazz... Our classroom doors had huge friggin' windows for god's sake.



Completely agree.. I remember during my first "lock-down" we were in the science room.. everything was made of glass.. INCLUDING THE DOOR. Anyone who really wanted to get in, could get in..


----------



## The Bread Guy

ballz said:
			
		

> I remember doing a few of those in school. What a stupid idea... talk about encouraging people to be sheep.





			
				canada94 said:
			
		

> Completely agree..


I see such drills as keep big groups of untrained folks as safe as possible, as quickly and easily done as possible, until trained, armed pers are on the scene.  Any suggestions for an alternative SOP?


----------



## canada94

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> I see such drills as keep big groups of untrained folks as safe as possible, as quickly and easily done as possible, until trained, armed pers are on the scene.  Any suggestions for an alternative SOP?



Yup! Have police already at the school. My school constantly has police outside dealing with dealers along the Welland Canal.. why not have one within the school?


----------



## muskrat89

> Completely agree.. I remember during my first "lock-down" we were in the science room.. everything was made of glass.. INCLUDING THE DOOR. Anyone who really wanted to get in, could get in..



As someone who oversees security on a University campus I can tell you this (regardless of whether I agree or not with lockdowns, campus carry, etc) - one of the purposes (benefits?) of lockdown is to provide more barriers to slow the perpetrator down until the police get there. Yes, it easy to blow through a glass door, but navigating through hallways, especially - and classrooms, slows the guy down and presents him/her with more decisions. It also obstructs lines of vision (I know, not with glass) and helps challenge navigation. The real effect of these measures may be minute, but I think in these situations, anything helps.

Further, polics have altered tactics in responding to school shootings. before they used to stage, call SWAT, secure the wounded for the medics, etc. In the police departments I deal with, the response is for the 1st officers on scene to immediately enter the building and focus on nothing other than neutralizing the threat.

Sorry for the tangent


----------



## The Bread Guy

muskrat89 said:
			
		

> Sorry for the tangent


Not at all - always worthwhile hearing from someone on the inside for this kind of detail.


			
				canada94 said:
			
		

> Yup! Have police already at the school. My school constantly has police outside dealing with dealers along the Welland Canal.. why not have one within the school?


I'd feel more comfortable with a cop in every school, but methinks that would add up to a lot o' cops to find.


----------



## canada94

muskrat89 said:
			
		

> As someone who oversees security on a University campus I can tell you this (regardless of whether I agree or not with lockdowns, campus carry, etc) - one of the purposes (benefits?) of lockdown is to provide more barriers to slow the perpetrator down until the police get there. Yes, it easy to blow through a glass door, but navigating through hallways, especially - and classrooms, slows the guy down and presents him/her with more decisions. It also obstructs lines of vision (I know, not with glass) and helps challenge navigation. The real effect of these measures may be minute, but I think in these situations, anything helps.
> 
> Further, polics have altered tactics in responding to school shootings. before they used to stage, call SWAT, secure the wounded for the medics, etc. In the police departments I deal with, the response is for the 1st officers on scene to immediately enter the building and focus on nothing other than neutralizing the threat.
> 
> Sorry for the tangent



What you are saying makes sense.. and trust me guys.. I don't want to seem like I think we "should not do it".. I agree that it is a measure that should be taken, I just think that other measures can be taken as well. I agree with when you say it'll slow the perp down even by a minute as you said, as it could potentially save people's lives.

It's easy to agree with you as well as you know what your talking about 

EDIT: lack of proper grammar :\


----------



## Container

canada94 said:
			
		

> What you are saying makes sense.. and trust me guys.. I don't want to seem like I think we "should not do it".. I agree that it is a measure that should be taken, I just think that other measures can be taken as well. I agree with when you say it'll slow the perp down even by a minute as you said, as it could potentially save people's lives.
> 
> It's easy to agree with you as well as you know what your talking about
> 
> EDIT: lack of proper grammer :\



Im not going into the tactics around how to deal with an active shooter. I will however say this- the reason you lock down where you are is because the more people fleeing through the hallways the more likelihood there is for further injury and mistakes.

The lockdown creates barriers and slows people down. In some classrooms it offers concealment. In other cases it keeps people out of the action.


----------



## aesop081

canada94 said:
			
		

> EDIT: lack of proper *grammer* :\



You forgot spelling  ;D

"Grammar"


----------



## canada94

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You forgot spelling  ;D
> 
> "Grammar"



I am just a disaster  

Thanks for the edit


----------



## Infanteer

canada94 said:
			
		

> Yup! Have police already at the school.



Why a police officer?  Why should they be the only people to defend one's life?

Perhaps schools should have 1 person dedicated as "break-in-case-of-fire" person.  That staff member is trained on use of force, firearms safety and threat indicators.  Not only do they educate the rest of the faculty (and students) on stuff, but if something were to happen, they are ready to respond, saving lives before the police arrive.

Hell, deputize the person if it makes you feel comfortable....


----------



## canada94

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Why a police officer?  Why should they be the only people to defend one's life?
> 
> Perhaps schools should have 1 person dedicated as "break-in-case-of-fire" person.  That staff member is trained on use of force, firearms safety and threat indicators.  Not only do they educate the rest of the faculty (and students) on stuff, but if something were to happen, they are ready to respond, saving lives before the police arrive.
> 
> Hell, deputize the person if it makes you feel comfortable....



I agree with being taught the ability to defend yourself, In my school grade 9 gym has a 2 week self defense course built in. I see a police officer not only as a form of protection but also deterrence. You can nerf everything you want in the world.. and still disaster will strike sooner or later. We can have all the commissions, inquires, studies.. but nothing will change that disasters (and nut cases) will strike. 

That being said, "deputize them.." made me chuckle  8)


----------



## The Bread Guy

canada94 said:
			
		

> That being said, "deputize them.." made me chuckle  8)


Not so fast....



			
				Infanteer said:
			
		

> Perhaps schools should have 1 person dedicated as "break-in-case-of-fire" person.  That staff member is trained on use of force, firearms safety and threat indicators.  Not only do they educate the rest of the faculty (and students) on stuff, but if something were to happen, they are ready to respond, saving lives before the police arrive.
> 
> Hell, deputize the person if it makes you feel comfortable....


Sort of a designated staff "use-of-force-trained peace officer"?


----------



## Container

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Why a police officer?  Why should they be the only people to defend one's life?
> 
> Perhaps schools should have 1 person dedicated as "break-in-case-of-fire" person.  That staff member is trained on use of force, firearms safety and threat indicators.  Not only do they educate the rest of the faculty (and students) on stuff, but if something were to happen, they are ready to respond, saving lives before the police arrive.
> 
> Hell, deputize the person if it makes you feel comfortable....



I dont mind the idea. However I think you'd have a hard time finding a teacher able to run towards the sound of a gun being fired in every school. Im sure they exist but Im also reasonably sure they would be rare.


----------



## The Bread Guy

> Norwegian anti-immigration militant Anders Behring Breivik spoke in open court for the first time on Monday and admitted killing 77 people in attacks in July, but he denied any guilt, saying he was a military commander in a far-right resistance movement.
> 
> Wearing a black suit, white shirt and silvery tie, a tense Breivik sat with his eyes mostly downcast and occasionally bit his lip in a packed hearing to extend his custody before trial.
> 
> At one point Breivik attempted to address survivors of Norway's biggest modern-day massacre, but the judge cut him off.
> 
> "I am a military commander in the Norwegian resistance movement and Knights Templar Norway," Breivik told the court.
> 
> It was the 32-year-old's first public utterance since he planted a car bomb on July 22 that killed eight people at an Oslo government building, then went on to shoot dead 69 more, most of them teenagers, at a Labour Party summer camp on the island of Utoeya.
> 
> "I acknowledge the acts, but I do not plead guilty," Breivik said, adding that he rejected the jurisdiction of the court because it "supports multiculturalism." ....


Reuters, 14 Nov 11

More on the latest here (Google News search)


----------



## medicineman

Hmmm - a few fruit loops short of breakfast I see.  Be interesting to see the psych assessment.

MM


----------



## The Bread Guy

medicineman said:
			
		

> Hmmm - a few fruit loops short of breakfast I see.  Be interesting to see the psych assessment.
> 
> MM


Well, here's what the media's saying about it....


> A psychiatric evaluation of confessed mass killer Anders Behring Breivik found he was insane during the July 22 bomb and shooting attacks that killed 77 people in Norway, prosecutors said Tuesday.
> 
> If a court agrees with that assessment, the self-declared anti-Muslim militant cannot be sentenced to prison but will be subjected to compulsory psychiatric care, prosecutors told reporters in Oslo.
> 
> "The conclusions of the forensic experts is that Anders Behring Breivik was insane," prosecutor Svein Holden said, adding Breivik was in a state of psychosis during Norway's worst peacetime massacre.
> 
> In Norway, an insanity defence requires that a defendant be in a state of psychosis while committing the crime with which he or she is charged. That means the defendant has lost contact with reality to the point that he's no longer in control of his own actions.
> 
> The 243-page report will be reviewed by a panel from the Norwegian Board of Forensic Medicine, which could ask for additional information and add its own opinions ....


CTV.ca, 29 Nov 11


----------



## The Bread Guy

> The Norwegian far-right militant who massacred 77 people last summer gave a clenched-fist salute, smirked at the court and pleaded not guilty on the first day of a trial that threatens to turn into a "circus" showcasing his anti-Islamic views.
> 
> Anders Behring Breivik, 33, has said he acted in defense of his country by setting off a car bomb that killed eight people at government headquarters in Oslo last July, then killing another 69 people in a shooting spree at a summer youth camp organized by the ruling Labour Party.
> 
> The real question of the trial will be whether Breivik will be declared insane or guilty. While he risks being kept behind bars for the rest of his life, the high school dropout has said being labeled insane would be a "fate worse than death".
> 
> Listening impassively for hours as prosecutors read out an indictment detailing how he massacred teenagers trapped on a holiday island outside Oslo, he only shed tears when the court later showed one of his propaganda videos ....


Reuters, 16 Apr 12

Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik gestures as he arrives for his terrorism and murder trial in a courtroom in Oslo April 16, 2012. REUTERS/Heiko Junge/Pool


----------



## OldSolduer

I shall keep my thoughts to myself on what SHOULD be done with this......specimen.


----------



## CougarKing

An update on the case of that mass killer Breivik from Norway: 

Associated Press



> *Norwegian court rules mass killer Breivik's rights violated*
> The Associated Press
> April 20, 2016
> 
> STOCKHOLM -* Norwegian authorities have violated mass killer Anders Behring Breivik's human rights by holding him in solitary confinement in a three-cell complex where he can play video games, watch TV and exercise*, a court in Oslo ruled Wednesday.
> 
> In a written decision, the Oslo district court said Breivik's solitary confinement for killing 77 people in 2011 bomb-and-gun massacres breached the European Convention on Human Rights' ban on inhuman treatment.
> 
> "The prohibition of inhuman and degrading treatment represents a fundamental value in a democratic society," the court said. "This applies no matter what — also in the treatment of terrorists and killers."
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


----------



## jollyjacktar

This piece of shit should have no rights, hell, he's barely human.  Makes me want to puke.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Bumped with the latest on this guy #CantMakeThisShitUp ...


> Mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik gave a Nazi salute on Tuesday as he arrivedin court for a parole hearing that will decide if he should be released after spending more than a decade behind bars.
> 
> (...)
> 
> With a shaven head and dressed in a dark suit, Breivik made a white supremacist sign with his fingers before raising his right arm in a Nazi salute to signal his far-right ideology as he entered the court.
> 
> He also carried signs, printed in English, including one that said "Stop your genocide against our white nations" and "Nazi-Civil-War".
> 
> (...)
> 
> Addressing the court, Breivik blamed his crimes on online radicalisation by a leaderless network of far-right extremists, which he said had motivated his attacks.
> 
> *"I was brainwashed," *Breivik said ...


Ya think?


----------



## CBH99

CougarKing said:


> An update on the case of that mass killer Breivik from Norway:
> 
> Associated Press


So he’s being held in solitary confinement, partially for his own safety and partially so he doesn’t spread his views among members of the general population.  

However, he has 3 cells to himself, along with a decent television, video game consoles, and access to a DVD player.  (His consoles are older and do not have wifi, and the games for those consoles can’t be violence based.  No CoD for asshat.)

He murdered 69 kids at a summer camp, in which he pretended to be a police officer.  Gunned them down in cold blood, and hunted down those who had a managed to initially flee until police deployed & stopped him.  

Kids.  At summer camp.  Gunned down en-mass.  Because his views on immigration policy are vastly more important to him than his views on murdering innocent people…


And in his plea to be released, saying he’d been brainwashed by internet bullshit… he shows his sincerity by giving a Nazi salute?  Really?  

F**k him.


----------

