# Rank and Postion Conflict



## LS_Cadet (17 Jan 2005)

Here is a problem that happens in my corps alot.  There is often rank vs. position conflict.  For example, a Warrant is put incharge of an excercise but the CSM, DSM and RSM will not listen to the Warrants orders on the excercise even though the Warrant is in-charge.  This creates other large problems amongst the senior ranks.  I was just wanted to get some opinions on what has more power in a situation like this, a rank or a position.  Thanks


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## my72jeep (17 Jan 2005)

The OPI (officer of Primary Importance) no mater what the rank is in charge but all courtesies due that rank should be shown. That said the MWO should know better then to screw you around he was a WO once.pull them to the side and explain your problem if that does not work take it up with your Plt. Officer.


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## Saorse (17 Jan 2005)

While the RSM is right under the CO, if a Corporal is put in charge of an activity, then it is the Corporal's activity to run. Authority must still be respected: the Corporal cannot treat the RSM as if he is of lower grade, and the RSM cannot overrule all Corporal orders, either. There is always a balance of power, but by the sounds of your problem, this needs to be brought up to an officer.


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## Dane (17 Jan 2005)

Im not sure of your position with in the Corps, if it's possible try and discuss it with the problem people, or at least those that you can. If thats not possible and the problem is truly creating a problem for Cadets and Training with in the Corps obviously go to the officers. There is no situation for Senior NCOs that cannot handle some one being given authority to run an event, whether through practical or training purposes. Sounds simply like immaturity too me, and may also meen that the Senior NCOs are unaware of what they are actually doing.


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## Big Foot (17 Jan 2005)

Rule of thumb, if a cadet is running something with the approval of the CO, they likely have the backing of the CO and thus have had some of the COs authority delegated to the,. THerefore, disobeying the OPI would be akin to disobeying the CO. I believe it is for this reason that RSMs can jack up officers if they do something wrong. It is all about delegation of authority.


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## Zedic_1913 (18 Jan 2005)

In matters like that rank means very little ... if someone is appointed to do something its their responsibility to make sure it gets done.  Being a good leader also means being a good follower, you have to be able to observe other leaders at work, regardless of whether or not they're above you or below you.  Some leaders lack the maturity to understand that, which is a frequent problem.


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## Dane (18 Jan 2005)

Jacking up an Officer is probably slightly strong language  however, I see where you are coming from for sure - often times the RSM has a better idea of whats actually going on than some of the junior officers; same at the CSTC with CSMs vs. Pl Comds and AsstPlComds.


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## Love793 (24 Jan 2005)

Big Foot said:
			
		

> Rule of thumb, if a cadet is running something with the approval of the CO, they likely have the backing of the CO and thus have had some of the COs authority delegated to the,. THerefore, disobeying the OPI would be akin to disobeying the CO. I believe it is for this reason that RSMs can jack up officers if they do something wrong. It is all about delegation of authority.



By RSM I'm assuming you are referring to a CWO (in the real world).  If so the reason for the RSM being able to "Jack" Subalterns, is because he/she is senior to them.  A CWO holds the equivalence to a Capt in seniority.  However, in the event that a 2Lt/ LT is given a task such as "Lt you will take your Pl and ...." by the OC/CO he assumes authority, the RSM will not step in and intervene.  Again though, if that 2Lt or Lt makes the mistake of crossing the RSMs square, he's open game.


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## Eowyn (24 Jan 2005)

Love793 said:
			
		

> By RSM I'm assuming you are referring to a CWO (in the real world).   If so the reason for the RSM being able to "Jack" Subalterns, is because he/she is senior to them.   A CWO holds the equivalence to a Capt in seniority.   However, in the event that a 2Lt/ LT is given a task such as "Lt you will take your Pl and ...." by the OC/CO he assumes authority, the RSM will not step in and intervene.   Again though, if that 2Lt or Lt makes the mistake of crossing the RSMs square, he's open game.



A CWO is NOT senior to a commissioned officer, including 2Lts and Lts.   That being said, it is a very stupid Subaltern if they don't listen to their Pl WOs/Sgts, CSMs or RSM.  They don't have to do what is advised, but they should at least listen.


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## Meridian (24 Jan 2005)

Eowyn said:
			
		

> A CWO is NOT senior to a commissioned officer, including 2Lts and Lts.   That being said, it is a very stupid Subaltern if they don't listen to their Pl WOs/Sgts, CSMs or RSM.   They don't have to do what is advised, but they should at least listen.



This is how I understood it as well.


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## ouyin2000 (24 Jan 2005)

rank and position are 2 different things, and must be respected in their own ways

just because someone is a higher rank than you, does not make them good for the task....a CWO might not be qualified to run an exercise, or mey have done something for the CO not to trust them anymore, or any number of things

a WO might be very capable of running said exercise, but since their is already a CSM and PSM position filled, then they are not promoted yet

in this case, both the WO (Ex OPI) and CWO (RSM) must learn to respect each other

the WO must remember not to "boss around" the CWO...but the CWO must in turn remember not to over rule the WO's exercise authority


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## Love793 (24 Jan 2005)

Eowyn said:
			
		

> A CWO is NOT senior to a commissioned officer, including 2Lts and Lts.   That being said, it is a very stupid Subaltern if they don't listen to their Pl WOs/Sgts, CSMs or RSM.   They don't have to do what is advised, but they should at least listen.



Explain to me then sir, as to how a WO is commisioned to the rank of 2LT, A MWO to the rank of LT, and A CWO to the rank of Capt.  I believe it does have something to do with differences between a Royal Warrant, and A Commision.

I do agree with young subaltern not taking the advice of a PL WO, CSM etc.  It usually only happens once.


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## Inch (24 Jan 2005)

Love793 said:
			
		

> Explain to me then sir, as to how a WO is commisioned to the rank of 2LT, A MWO to the rank of LT, and A CWO to the rank of Capt.   I believe it does have something to do with differences between a Royal Warrant, and A Commision.
> 
> I do agree with young subaltern not taking the advice of a PL WO, CSM etc.   It usually only happens once.



It doesn't matter what rank he goes to if he CFRs, he's an NCM and a 2Lt is commissioned. 

Right off my scroll "... and you are in such a manner and on such occasions as may be prescribed by Us to exercise and well discipline both the Inferior Officers and Non Commissioned Members serving under you and use your best endeavour to keep them in good Order and Discipline."

It doesn't say "Non Commissioned Members except CWOs", so until said CWO/MWO/WO CFRs, he's an NCM and subordinate to any commissioned officer, period.


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