# Navy Traditions



## navymich (31 May 2006)

The funny thing is, if you google tiddly, it gives you the definition of "besotted, very drunk".  But I have found this one for you:

_Canadian sailors, like sailors the world over, have devoted much attention to the business of appearing distinguished - and distinct. In naval lingo, this is known as looking "tiddley," (tiddley being the seaman's term for neat or smart, something that must be fussed over)._  http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.org/resource_pages/sailor_life/tiddley.html


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## Good2Golf (31 May 2006)

Ahhh...as in "the F-18 demo pilot adjusted the air-to-air mirrors in his canopy to see himself instead, so that he could confirm that he was looking just tiddily as he taxied past the airshow crowd."   >


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## IN HOC SIGNO (31 May 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> The funny thing is, if you google tiddly, it gives you the definition of "besotted, very drunk".  But I have found this one for you:
> 
> _Canadian sailors, like sailors the world over, have devoted much attention to the business of appearing distinguished - and distinct. In naval lingo, this is known as looking "tiddley," (tiddley being the seaman's term for neat or smart, something that must be fussed over)._  http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.org/resource_pages/sailor_life/tiddley.html



Thanks for educating our Air Force friend mich. You're pretty "close up" there matie. It seems like our traditions are being lost quickly...it's good to keep this stuff alive....when we went green and integrated in the late sixties a lot of traditions were lost. There was a brief time of revival in the late seventies but once the old timers started retiring and the new technologies started coming in....we began to lose traditions again.

Yours aye
the Sin Bosun


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## navymich (31 May 2006)

Ahh Duey?  Before you ask: "closed up": one who is knowledgeable on something.  

And In Hoc Signo, thank you for the compliment.  I try hard onboard to keep traditions alive.  I hate to talk about them as "kids", but that's what they are.  And there aren't as many oldtimers around anymore to pass out the info.  When I find myself explaining everything from levees, to dressing ship, to crossing the line ceremonies, and everything in between, it is quite sad.  Why even this morning, as I was doing colours, I had a kilick ask me why we rang the bell 8 times


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## Sub_Guy (1 Jun 2006)

He asked you what?  Where was this?  Don't they teach traditions on NETP?  I know as a 00299 that we are taught that on our QL3 course, but come on here people, everyone in the navy should have the basic understanding of naval traditions and ceremonies


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## navymich (1 Jun 2006)

So Sub_Guy, shall we continue to follow each other around from thread to thread? LOL 

Yes, that is what he asked.  I have no idea what they teach on NETP anymore, but I am definitely going to look into that.  And even if they do teach it, as was discussed a couple posts up, the traditions talk just isn't being kept up.  Most sailors now know WHAT to do, they just never seem to know WHY we do stuff.


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## Good2Golf (1 Jun 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> *Ahh Duey?  Before you ask: "closed up": one who is knowledgeable on something. *
> 
> And In Hoc Signo, thank you for the compliment.  I try hard onboard to keep traditions alive.  I hate to talk about them as "kids", but that's what they are.  And there aren't as many oldtimers around anymore to pass out the info.  When I find myself explaining everything from levees, to dressing ship, to crossing the line ceremonies, and everything in between, it is quite sad.  Why even this morning, as I was doing colours, I had a kilick ask me why we rang the bell 8 times



Yo...dis brutha be tight wit dat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Seeing as I'm learning a fair bit from this, and if you _folks_ (oops, apologies Mich) don't mind diverging a bit from the original thread...

Regarding "ready" and "aye", why is it that ready sometimes leads aye (as in "ready, aye ready") and other times follows it (ready aye)?  I'm presuming "aye" is like an army or aviator's "ack"...

Just wonderin',

Cheers
Duey


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## navymich (1 Jun 2006)

Duey said:
			
		

> Seeing as I'm learning a fiir bit from this, and if you *gents* don't mind diverging a bit from the original thread...


I don't know about *them*, but I don't (if you look at my profile, I don't quite fall under that title LOL.  I may be more of a sailor then a lady but still.....)

_the only conceivable response was the historic "British answer to the call to duty: 'Ready, aye, ready'." 
_ http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/hist/canada4-en.asp#ready

_AYE AYE The derivation of this is generally thought to be unknown, but some experts think it may possibly come from the German "Eiey!" - an exclamation of astonishment or admiration. _
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.3805

But pretty much we say "aye aye" in place of "yes sir, right away sir" type thing.  And "aye" as a bit of a short form.


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## jollyjacktar (1 Jun 2006)

navymilch and Sub Guy - When I did the "OSCAB", NETP in 96/97 as I recall they really did not cover much of the traditions of the Navy.  We have a current "Old Man" who is big on tradition and insists on having both bugle and full pipes made over the broadcast.  Needless to say I cannot think of too many who are keen on the Dinner pipe.

I remember in the 90's the Air Force published a booklet for dissemenation amongst the Wings on the history and traditions.  It was an interesting read, if slightly in-accurate in some places to my understanding.  Albatross vice Golden Eagle as the incorrect identification for example.  If the Navy could spare the cash they should consider a move like this too before too much corporate memory is lost.  All the Old Salts are leaving us a a regular rate both Vets and those who were in just at around the end of the RCN.

Enzo, on my first trip to Rosevelt Roads Naval Base in Puerto Rico aka Rosey Roads there was a drunken sot who did cross the brow at around 0300 hrs, dressed in a palm tree thong.  Apparently he had neglected to remeber where his clothes had been mislaid.  Another guy had his strung over his shoulder and also was buck naked.  He did not want to get his clothes "salty" apparently.  Nowadays I would not like to be the one who came back to the ship in that condition, they seem to have lost their sense of humor for that sort of thing.  However there is hope in my shop for some sea stories.  We have a young guy who is an "Old Time Sailor", he would have fit in 40 - 60 years ago perfectly.  He does surprise us from time to time.  Bless him.


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## navymich (1 Jun 2006)

When I did my OSAQB in '93, we did learn a bit of traditions, but come to think of it now, not much.  However, when I did basic in '91, we covered alot of ceremonial and traditions then.  With us, we have full pipes for everything.  Hands to Dinner I can handle, but I dread the days when I'm not already up by 7.  Wakey-wakey has got to be one of the worst things to wake up too (bongbongs being up there too  ;D )

(BTW jollyjacktar, it's navymich.  Thought you might have just mistyped it the first time...thanks  )


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## Enzo (1 Jun 2006)

Ah Puerto Rico...  :cheers:


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## Good2Golf (1 Jun 2006)

IN HOC, I'm tracking you so far, except for the "action"...is that any movie with CPO Casey Rybeck (a.k.a. Steven _*Sea*_gal)?  ;D  Truth be told, I infiltrated the cave on a few occasions in Esquimalt in my earlier days...I can neither confirm nor deny, but some JR's from the senior service may have somehow thought that I was a radar techn from North Bay... > (the bands rocked on a Friday night!)

Funny how retiring seems to maintain the same self-destructive tone no matter the service, i.e. "swallow the anchor", "pull the pin", "go for a big-a$$ed paycheck at Air Canada"...errrr, nevermind belay that last thought .   

Cheers,
Duey


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## IN HOC SIGNO (2 Jun 2006)

Duey said:
			
		

> IN HOC, I'm tracking you so far, except for the "action"...is that any movie with CPO Casey Rybeck (a.k.a. Steven _*Sea*_gal)?  ;D  Truth be told, I infiltrated the cave on a few occasions in Esquimalt in my earlier days...I can neither confirm nor deny, but some JR's from the senior service may have somehow thought that I was a radar techn from North Bay... > (the bands rocked on a Friday night!)
> 
> Funny how retiring seems to maintain the same self-destructive tone no matter the service, i.e. "swallow the anchor", "pull the pin", "go for a big-a$$ed paycheck at Air Canada"...errrr, nevermind belay that last thought .
> 
> ...



Ha ha...yes I forgot the word film. Rybeck is my hero...I've known some cooks in my time but none of them looked like him...ha ha...most of em had a huge sh.tlocker!
 What about "pull pole"? Army term.
Yeah you Air Force types are alway agitating...big a$$ed pay checks indeed!


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## jollyjacktar (2 Jun 2006)

IN HOC ah screw the other thread.  I did read the article on the JSS and it made me mad, again.  I hate to think of Irving having the contract to build these ships.  We are still suffering from the refit we just went through with those people.  And years after the previous refit at that yard we were still coming across situations where work was done incorrectly or not at all.  Yes, yes I know, QA should take some of the blame for past mistakes, but dammit it was Irving who did the work to begin with.  Every ship coming out of there recently is having to overcome all sorts of problems stemming from the refit conducted there.

The Halifax is falling apart and has had more new steel put into her than you could shake a stick at.  She is not that old for Christ's sake.  There is no way IMHO that anything JSS built by them would last as long as we will be forced to try to make and mend with, as is happening now.  The folks from the Puzzle Palace came onboard in 99 and promised 4 not 3 ships in the water by 05.  Here it is 06 and these monkeys are now saying 3 by 13. UNSAT!!!!!  I am tired of getting screwed by the Feds et al.  And I am sure I am not alone in this.

 :rage:


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## navymich (2 Jun 2006)

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> I think a lack of person power and so much on the agenda nowadays....gotta get your French...gotta get your OPMEs....this course that course...has taken away the time we had to do tiddily ropework, practice seamanship skills...we had a regatta in Esquimalt every spring and summer to practice boatwork, sailing, war canoe...and generally have a great banyan afterwards...oh yeah tug o war...where I ruined my back for the rest of my career...ha ha  :crybaby:


You'll be happy to know that they are trying to re-institute the regatta.  There was one last Friday, and unfortunately I was on duty and unable to attend.  The comments I heard back were semi-positive.  Food was good, events were varied and interesting.  The crews on the MCDV's felt left out abit as they were lacking in personnel requirements for some events (no divers, FF or hull techs), but still made a great effort.  And with this being the first year back for the regatta, hopefully lessons will be learned and they will continue to run it.  This will definitely improve camaraderie throughout the dockyard.



			
				IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> How do we interest our young folks in this when they seem more prone to play Nintendo or watch an action (American) in the cave? (that's the Jr Ranks Mess, Duey)


I guess you probably don't want to know what the trend is now then?  Cover your eyes....they hook up X-Boxes between all of the messes and have a great time playing HALO and such between everyone.


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## ACIGSkyler (12 Jun 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> When I did my OSAQB in '93, we did learn a bit of traditions, but come to think of it now, not much.  However, when I did basic in '91, we covered alot of ceremonial and traditions then.  With us, we have full pipes for everything.  Hands to Dinner I can handle, but I dread the days when I'm not already up by 7.  Wakey-wakey has got to be one of the worst things to wake up too (bongbongs being up there too  ;D )
> 
> (BTW jollyjacktar, it's navymich.  Thought you might have just mistyped it the first time...thanks  )



I still have my large handout that they gave us when I did OSQAB in 90, usually go through it now and then for fun. It did cover a few things in regards to traditions but not as much as I would have liked, but imagine there are lots of good books on that available. I remember when CTV did a special on the Vancouver they used alot of terminology and slang I had never heard of before so not sure if it was some guys pulling their legs or they dug deep into history books.

As for pipes (and I'm tone deaf so was utterly horrible at it), once on the Algonquin coming back from Diego, and not a great trip, someone played Sloop John B as our wakey-wakey. For those that know the words the CO, XO were not impressed, but great for us. On the Yukon we had one guy that did a great Aussie wakey-wakey. Great in that if you were already on watch so didn't have to wake up to it.

Court


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## Melbatoast (29 Jun 2006)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Enzo, on my first trip to Rosevelt Roads Naval Base in Puerto Rico aka Rosey Roads there was a drunken sot who did cross the brow at around 0300 hrs, dressed in a palm tree thong.  Apparently he had neglected to remeber where his clothes had been mislaid.  Another guy had his strung over his shoulder and also was buck naked.  He did not want to get his clothes "salty" apparently.  Nowadays I would not like to be the one who came back to the ship in that condition, they seem to have lost their sense of humor for that sort of thing.  However there is hope in my shop for some sea stories.  We have a young guy who is an "Old Time Sailor", he would have fit in 40 - 60 years ago perfectly.  He does surprise us from time to time.  Bless him.



At RIMPAC '04 two guys came back to the ship naked because they went skinnydipping at some beach and had their clothes stolen.  Why two guys were skinnydipping, it was never established, but it was funny as hell for everyone aboard up to and including CO, XO and 'swain.  And I actually have tons of stories, from not (comparatively) a great deal of sea time, so it's not all lost.  Like the guys locked inside a gentlemen's club in Tokyo because they couldn't pay the bill, requiring actual diplomatic intervention on their behalf.  And so forth; but of course stories like that should stay inboard...

Something we do is send the new guys back to "talk" with the Buffer if they insist on using the wrong terminology for something.  That can be a sobering experience and wll make you call them "flats" for the rest of your days.


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## buddyhfx (29 Jun 2006)

Enzo said:
			
		

> Ah Puerto Rico...  :cheers:


  AHHHH!!! good old Papa Joes.....I'm getting flash backs here  :cheers:


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## Kirkhill (29 Jun 2006)

Duey said:
			
		

> Yo...dis brutha be tight wit dat!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Duey, this one I can help you with.  

Aye is used in the North of England and the South of Scotland for "Yes" - right enough.  However it also means "always".  As in "She's aye whinging aboot me bein' doon the pub and haein' a wee half."

Ready, Aye Ready = Ready, always ready.

Cheers from the resident lowlander.


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## Good2Golf (3 Jul 2006)

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> Duey, this one I can help you with.
> 
> Aye is used in the North of England and the South of Scotland for "Yes" - right enough.  However it also means "always".  As in "She's aye whinging aboot me bein' doon the pub and haein' a wee half."
> 
> ...



Aaaach, thanks KH!

Slainte! (insert sipping Dalwhinnie double-matured, or a 18yr Highland Park here)
Duey


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## PingBosn (16 Jul 2006)

Please forgive me for inserting my nose into this, I may not have much sea time, but My family has always been involved in the Navy (family job).  The traditions of the navy have fallen by the wayside iot make life easier for those that are too lazy to do a job right.  We need those traditions to hold fast otherwise well end up just another part of the army.


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## Ex-Dragoon (16 Jul 2006)

PingBosn said:
			
		

> Please forgive me for inserting my nose into this, I may not have much sea time, but My family has always been involved in the Navy (family job).  The traditions of the navy have fallen by the wayside iot make life easier for those that are too lazy to do a job right.  We need those traditions to hold fast otherwise well end up just another part of the army.



Maybe once you have more _sea time_ you will see that certain traditions have no place in todays navy.


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## navymich (16 Jul 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Maybe once you have more _sea time_ you will see that certain traditions have no place in todays navy.



Okay Ex-D, you've got my curiosity piqued.  Such as.....?


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## vonGarvin (16 Jul 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> Okay Ex-D, you've got my curiosity piqued.  Such as.....?


Maybe he means "Rum, Sodomy and The Lash" no longer belong?  Or is that still on their recruiting posters/Press Gang Trucks ;D


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## navymich (16 Jul 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> Maybe he means "Rum, Sodomy and The Lash" no longer belong?  Or is that still on their recruiting posters/Press Gang Trucks ;D


Shush you, this is still a serious topic.  You're going to get it moved to Radio Chatter if you don't stay in your lane... 

As for Rum, that always belongs in the Navy.  We could also talk about what traditions should be brought back...mmmm, daily rum tots.


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## chanman (20 Jul 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> Shush you, this is still a serious topic.  You're going to get it moved to Radio Chatter if you don't stay in your lane...
> 
> As for Rum, that always belongs in the Navy.  We could also talk about what traditions should be brought back...mmmm, daily rum tots.



I don't remember which thread this was originally in, but I'll repost it here.  

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/036-35_e.asp

_CFAO 36-35 -- SPIRIT ISSUE

PURPOSE

1. This order prescribes the policy and regulating guidelines governing the issue of spirits in the Canadian Forces.

AUTHORIZATION

2. With the approval of the senior officer present, the commanding officer of a ship or submarine may authorize an issue of spirits when exceptional circumstances justify the issue.

3. With the approval of the officer commanding the command, the commanding officer of a fleet diving unit may authorize an issue of spirits to those personnel specifically and directly employed in a diving operation.

4. With the approval of the officer commanding the command, an officer who is in command of a base or station, or an officer of or above the rank of major who is in command of a unit or other element, may authorize an issue of spirits to personnel:

a. who are performing their duties under unusual and difficult
conditions that are sufficiently adverse to warrant the issue as
a morale booster; and


b. serving at a location remote from the permanent facilities
normally occupied by that base, unit or other element.


5. When an issue of spirits is authorized under paragraph 2, 3 or 4, the issue:
a. shall not be repeated in any 24-hour period;
b. should be made only at the conclusion of the day or activity when personnel have returned to shelter and are not likely to be called out for duty for at least eight hours; and
c. shall not exceed 70 ml (2 fl oz) per person per day.

6. When the order "Splice the Main Brace" is given in a ship, every member is entitled to receive a special issue of 87.5 Ml (2.5 fl oz) per person of spirits.

7. The order "Splice the Main Brace" may only be given by:
a. a member of the Royal Family:
b. the Governor General of Canada: or
c. the Chief of the Defence Staff.

8. A medical officer may authorize a special issue of spirits to personnel who require it for medical reasons.

9. Spirits shall not be issued in any circumstances other than those specified in this order without the approval of NDHQ DGPS (Director General Personnel Services).

10. Public issue spirits shall not be for resale.

(C) 1605-36-35 (DPERA)
Issued 1989-08-04

INDEX

Rations
Rum
Spirits
Supply _


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## IN HOC SIGNO (21 Jul 2006)

Arrrrrr..splice the mainbrace Mr Christian! :cheers:


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## Black Watch (22 Jul 2006)

I have question: why do we breack a bottle of fine champagne on ships to christian them? Why such a waste?


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## navymich (22 Jul 2006)

> One of the oldest customs still practised is that relating to the launching of a new ship. The oldest reference to this custom is that of an Assyrian tablet, believed to have been carved about 2100 B.C., on which the inscription tells of the building of Noah's Ark, and of the launching that a yoke of oxen was sacrificed. In similar manner the Fiji islanders and the Samoans made human sacrifice to the sharks, which to them were gods, and washed down their new canoes in the victims' blood. Viking legends tell of young men being crushed in sacrifice under the keels of ships being launched.
> 
> A later development, probably about the 14th century, was the custom of toasting the new vessel from silver wine goblets. The goblets were thrown into the sea to prevent further toasts, possibly of bad omen, being drunk. For reasons of economy a wine bottle was substituted in 1690. It was usual for a prince or other male member of royalty to smash the bottle against the bow, but after 1811 the honour was given to prominent ladies. A free swing was traditional until a spectator was injured and sued the Admiralty, and from that time a lanyard has been secured to the bottle. This is not always the case, at least on this continent; Mrs. Eisenhower, launching the world's first atomic-powered submarine U.S.S. Nautilus at Groton, Conn., in January 1954, used a champagne bottle without a lanyard. Some Canadian shipyards use a form of mechanical cradle containing a champagne bottle.
> 
> The custom is partly religious and partly pagan in origin, and it is by no means correct to assume that champagne is the only liquid used; it is currently in fashion, but in the past all alcoholic beverages have been employed, and even pure water has made the occasional appearance, especially in Moslem countries. It is still very much in the nature of sacrifice to smash a bottle of good liquor or wine.



http://www.readyayeready.com/tradition/customs-of-the-navy/7-more-customs.htm


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## IN HOC SIGNO (22 Jul 2006)

Black Watch said:
			
		

> I have question: why do we breack a bottle of fine champagne on ships to christian them? Why such a waste?



Wow Navy Mich is on the ball with that quote.
Funny story
When I was in Goose Bay (93-96) they renovated a new MIR building and asked me to come and bless the new building when it was time for the grand opening. I said that seeing as how I was a Navy Padre I thought it was a good idea to christen the building with a bottle of bubbly. The Wing Commander said OK so I went off to the liquor store only to find that there was no champagne in the store. I ended up buying a bottle of "Newfie Duck" At the ceremony the CE guys were looking very dismayed when I broke the bottle on the side of the building....afterwards one of them came up to me and said "Gee Padre did you have to go wasting a bottle of the good stuff?!"  :crybaby:


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## vonGarvin (22 Jul 2006)

I must admit: the navy sure have good traditions.  Hearts of Oak indeed! :cheers:


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## navymich (22 Jul 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> I must admit: the navy sure have good traditions.  Hearts of Oak indeed! :cheers:



The Navy has to have a heart somewhere....LOL

Make sure you have  sound  on


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## vonGarvin (22 Jul 2006)

Great.  I go to that link and then my IE closes with an error message 

*Pssst:  Don't tell anyone, but I was a Sea Cadet when I was 12 until I was 15.  I spent time at QUADRA for two summers and I was in the band!  I know my "Heart of Oak", but my favourite was "Life on the Ocean Wave".  Remember, TELL NOBODY!*


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## navymich (22 Jul 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> Great.  I go to that link and then my IE closes with an error message
> 
> *Pssst:  Don't tell anyone, but I was a Sea Cadet when I was 12 until I was 15.  I spent time at QUADRA for two summers and I was in the band!  I know my "Heart of Oak", but my favourite was "Life on the Ocean Wave".  Remember, TELL NOBODY!*



One time at band camp..... no worries, not only won't I tell anybody, I won't quote it either so it's not on display twice.


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## vonGarvin (22 Jul 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> One time at band camp.....


Yeah, right, I wish!  *sigh*  I was the geeky kid playing Tuba!  But I did get to play at halftime at a CFL game at the old Empire Stadium in Vancouver, and did a sunset ceremony in Victoria.  Very Cool for a young Upper Canadian!

Now, as for naval traditions (to keep this post on subject), I seem to remember "Kye" (or something like that) before lights out each evening.  As I recall, we'd line up for snacks, hot chocolate and the like.  Is that a naval thing?  I seem to recall former Cadets of RMC talking about it.


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## Good2Golf (22 Jul 2006)

Kye rocks!


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## Kirkhill (22 Jul 2006)

I wish I had the recipe for Kye because no hot chocolate I have had since tasted as good as that at Cornwallis.  - Trumpet.


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## andpro (22 Jul 2006)

I found this one: 
http://www.iwm.org.uk/upload/package/20/lifeinww2/eat/eat7.htm


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## Kirkhill (22 Jul 2006)

I'll have to give that one a try andpro.  Thanks much.


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## Rhibwolf (25 Jul 2006)

Having piqued my interest, I decided to search for the origin of the word kye. I came across the following. From the word kyish, meaning brown or muddied. (only one page with that nugget). Kye, old scottish for cows.  In the form of a name, it would be the place where cows graze. So, drawing a few dotted lines, cows make milk, which is in the recipe for modern kye, and it tends to be brownish or muddy.  Anyone want to add?


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## navymich (25 Jul 2006)

Rhibwolf, I followed your lead and looked it up too.  What I find interesting is the stories that sidetracked me along the way.  I think I could have searched and read forever.


Kye must have made an impression on this  veteran  who actually put it in the title of his book ("Kye and Soogie") that he wrote to share his story of his time on the Corvettes. 


> Kye was a thick brew of heavy and fatty chocolate, served hot and considered a lifesaving elixir by wet and freezing young Corvette crewmen serving seemingly endless watches on North Atlantic convoy duty.




Reading an  article  of the _Navy News_ from the RAN regarding Food in the Navy:


> At 2100 we had kye - slab cocoa




Most of the stories that I found had positive memories of Kye, but the description in this  article  made me wonder:


> Within an hour someone would go for "Kye" - that thick Naval cocoa, with a skin on it like a rubber disc! - and almost white with the cocoa butter encapsulated in it!


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## Rhibwolf (26 Jul 2006)

One of my favourites is Stand Easy, and especially on Fridays, when I typically wander down to the galley and start "quality assurance testing" at about 0930ish.  Your dit about the rubberised disk on top of the kye reminded me of this, an excerpt from Cdr Mark Watson's book on the Log Branch.

"My Uncle Gordon Dark retired from the Navy as a Chief Petty Officer Cook. Gordon was instrumental in my career when I was a young Naval officer. I frequently sought his advice and often got it whether I asked or not. Retired Chiefs are like that! In the early part of my naval career whilst serving as a Sub-lieutenant in HMCS MACKENZIE, I found myself placed in charge of the galley, the 8 or 9 cooks and the cooking function for 250 people. I was honoured! It was only later that I realized that any Supply Officer worth his salt was going to dump this job as quickly as he could. I didn't know any better so I threw myself into this task with total enthusiasm but very little knowledge. However, I found it very difficult to relate to my cooks. For those that have taken the time to study them, cooks are a really weird breed. I really wanted to do my job but somehow I felt that there was a great big wall between me and my culinary troops. They tended to view my efforts with about the same amount of appreciation they gave to the cleaning efforts of a cockroach. Cooks in the navy are a unique breed and I was totally unable to pierce the barriers that they habitually erected against all non-cooks. In desperation, I turned to my Uncle Gordon. Uncle Gordon suggested that I certainly was not going to be able to impress them with my knowledge of their trade, which was minimal or even less. However, I could get some "points" by demonstrating to the cooks that I cared for them and their product and that I was trying to do my job and should not be ignored. Wander down to the galley in the middle of the morning, suggested Gordon, and you are likely to find the day's soup bubbling in a huge vat. In the galley, you will find a row of tasting spoons. Take one and be seen by the cooks to examine it closely to ensure it is clean, a mark of a professional, and be prepared to comment if it is not. Take a ladle of the soup, sniff it, sip a tiny bit and throw the rest in the sink. Then carefully wash and replace the testing spoon. Now call the Petty Officer cook over and advise him that the soup needs a bit more salt. This is an opinion and he cannot fault you for an opinion. But don't tarry to argue. Leave as soon as you've made your pronouncement. So suggested Uncle Gordon. 
The next morning, armed with my strategic plan, I ventured forth to bring my cooks to heel. Sure enough, there was the soup right where it should have been. I have to admit, it was a revolting looking concoction and it didn't smell all that appetizing either. But I bravely hauled down a tasting spoon and proceeded. The spoon was clean and I took it over to the soup tureen. Into this grey bubbling mixture, I dipped my spoon, sniffed, sipped and put the stuff back. I resisted the temptation to run out and clean out my mouth and carefully cleaned the tasting spoon. I then turned to Petty Officer Smith who was hovering nearby with a somewhat curious expression on his face. 
"Petty Officer Smith, this soup needs more salt."  I turned to go as I had been instructed. However, my attention was caught by the sight of Petty Officer Smith sliding down the bulkhead and then, having slid as far as he could, sitting on the floor and laughing so hard that tears were rolling down his face. It is really hard to walk out on something like that, especially when you think you might be involved. "Sir", gasped Petty Officer Smith, "I know what you are trying to do. I think its great. I really do, sir, but there's no soup in that pot. Actually, we're boiling the deck rags." After that day, I ruled my galley from afar, rarely venturing anywhere near it and the galley staff appeared to like this arrangement and seemed to get along just fine without my constant attention. 
Servitium nulli secundus


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## jollyjacktar (14 Aug 2006)

:rofl:  Did you tell your Uncle Gordon about that incident?  I'll bet he is still laughing if you did.


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## Cayuga (29 Aug 2006)

As a young MARS officer with a historical bent, I am interested in the old traditions and background of things. Fortunately the jimmy is all about traditions, so I have picked up some good stuff from him, the only interesting part of the ROs is the quotes and trivia at the end of them that he puts in. However, I can't remember being told why the ships bell is rung 8 times among other things. Though I do know that all good navy stories are supposed to start with "Back in the Steamer days..."


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## hugh19 (29 Aug 2006)

8 bells is the end of the watch

1 bell on the half hour

2 bells at the end of one hour
4 bells at the end of 2 hours
6 bells at the end of 3 hours
8 bells at the end of four hours

Hence 8 bells at 0800 since its the end of the morning watch.


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## navymich (29 Aug 2006)

Ask and ye shall receive young mars-bar.  _Time as Marked by Bells_


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## hugh19 (29 Aug 2006)

Also goes back to the days of sail. Not the steamers.


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## Kirkhill (29 Aug 2006)

> Ask and ye shall receive young mars-bar. Time as Marked by Bells



Alternatively......



> Watches in the Royal Navy are named as follows: First Watch8pm to midnight2000 to 0000 Middle WatchMidnight to 4am0000 to 0400 Morning Watch4am to 8am0400 to 0800 Forenoon Watch8am to noon0800 to 1200 Afternoon WatchNoon to 4pm1200 to 1600 First Dog Watch4pm to 6pm1600 to 1800 Last Dog Watch6pm to 8pm1800 to 2000 The "Relieve Decks" is worked by the Officer(s) of the Watch only from 0730 to 0800. Each watch is of four hours, except the "dog watches" which are two hours. A bell is rung every half hour, and the total number of bells in a watch (except the "dog watch") is therefore eight. Eight bells announces the end of a watch. One bell announces that half an hour has passed, and so on to its end. Members of a watch can then tell, from the number of bells sounded, just how much of their watch has passed. Dog Watches The name probably comes for DODGE WATCH: by making in this way a total of seven watches to the day, men would be enabled not to keep the same watch each day. The suggestion that the name DOG comes from a dog watch being a watch cur-tailed is too frivolous to be authentic. A dog watch being two hours long while all other watches are of four hours' duration gives rise to the common Naval expression of derision to a junior: "You've only been in the Navy a dog watch". The custom of striking 1-2-3-8 bells in the last dog watch, instead of 5-6-7-8, is said to have originated in 1797; the mutineers at the Nore timed their mutiny to start at "five bells in the dog watches" on 13th May, 1797, but the officers got to hear of this and directed that five bells should not be struck then. Since then, one bell has been struck at 6.30pm. Some foreigners still carry out the old routine, but most have come into line with us. In the Royal Navy, the two Dog Watches are the "First" and the "Last" not the "First" and the "Second".  In everyone's mess but nobody's watch An old Naval expression used to describe a man who talks a lot but avoids actual work as much as he can - a good hand in the canteen but never available when there is work to be done.



http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.3827

The USN qualifies as "some foreigners".

I don't know about the current CF but back in the 70's the standard for the Dogs was still 1234-1238.


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## Cayuga (29 Aug 2006)

Thanks...

another question what would you think would be a better name than Acting Sub-Lieutenant. I know that the rank of Sub-Lieutenant goes back to Jarvis's naval reforms in 1804, but Acting Sub-Lieutenant is one of the most designed by commitee names in the CF.


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## rmacqueen (29 Aug 2006)

Hey Mich, maybe they should bring back keelhauling as well.  Heck, reading some of the things you have written here even I know more about naval traditions than your sailors and you know what colour my uniform was.  My personal favourite was banyans  :cheers:


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## navymich (29 Aug 2006)

Banyan --


> A barbecue or party, usually with steaks and beer. The term is derived from ‘banian’, a garment worn by an East Indian sect which neither kills nor eats meat (‘Banyan’ is a species of tree). In the 18th century, the British navy denied its sailors meat on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays; these days were known as ‘banian (or Banyan) days.’ The term has now come to mean just the opposite.




Keelhaul --


> A punishment which was particularly harsh and usually fatal was keel-hauling, awarded for serious offences, and discontinued in the Royal Navy about 1720. It was still practised in the Dutch and French navies until 1750.
> 
> A Stout line was rove through a block on the lower yardarm on each side of the ship. One end was secured under the arms and around the chest of the offender whose wrists were secured behind his back. From the other yard the line went under the ship, as a bottom line, and was secured around the man's ankles. On the word of the captain the boatswain ordered the man hoisted off the deck and clear of the bulwarks; slack was taken down on the bottom line, and as it was hauled in the line around the man's chest was slacked away. In this way he was hauled under the ship, and came up on the other side feet first. With both lines taut the man was slung in such a way that his stomach, chest and face were dragged across the barnacles of the keel, and in addition he was at least partially drowned.
> 
> An incidental feature of this cruel punishment is that the longer the ship was out of port after docking the less was a man's chance of living through the ordeal of being keel-hauled. As if this treatment were not enough it was the practice to fire a gun, usually unshotted, above the man as he was hauled up out of the sea, "in order to astonish and confound him". Perhaps this is the true origin of the Rogue's Salute previously mentioned.



_www.readyayeready.com_

Yes macqueen, but you had the misfortune (or was it US that had the misfortune...lol) of being grounded in a stone frigate.


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## rmacqueen (29 Aug 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> Yes macqueen, but you had the misfortune (or was it US that had the misfortune...lol) of being grounded in a stone frigate.



Awe, admit it, you miss me  :soldier:


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## navymich (31 Aug 2006)

Phrontis said:
			
		

> I submit myself for flogging around the Fleet.




flogging --



> The most common type of punishment, inflicted for almost any crime at the discretion of the captain, was flogging with a cat-o'-nine-tails. This was carried out "according to the customs of the service", namely at the gangway. At the time of Trafalgar a man who was to be flogged was given twenty-four hours in which to make his own cat. He was kept in leg-irons on the upper deck while awaiting his punishment. When the cat was made the boatswain cut out all but the best nine tails. If the tak was not completed in time the punishment was increased.
> 
> With heads uncovered to show respect for the law, the ship's company heard read the Article of War the offender had contravened. The prisoner was then brought forward, asked if he had anything to say in mitigation of punishment, then removed his shirt and had his hands secured to the rigging or a grating above his head. At the order "Boatswain's mate, do your duty" a sturdy seaman stepped forward with the cat -- a short rope or wodden handle, often red in colour, to which was attached nine waxed cords of equal length, each with a small knot in the end. With this the man was lashed on the bare back with a full sweep of the arm. After each dozen lashes a fresh boatswain's mate stepped forward to continue the punishment. Each blow of the cat tore back the skin and subsequent cuts bit right into the flesh so that after several dozen lashes had been inflicted the man's back resembled raw meat. After each stroke the cords were drawn through the boatswain's mates fingers to remove the clotting blood. Left-handed boatswain's mates were especially popular with sadistic captains because they would cross the cuts and so mangle the flesh even more.
> 
> ...



_www.readyayeready.com_


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