# Is bmq now 14 weeks?



## jarko (23 Sep 2005)

Was wondering if bmq is 14 weeks now? Which has sq included in bmq


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2005)

Most pers are coming here to good old Gagtown to do their SQ after completion of the BMQ. :blotto:


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## NavComm (23 Sep 2005)

I received dates of 09 Jan 2006 - 24 Mar 2006, that's 11 weeks, I have no idea what the extra 3 weeks are though.


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## spenco (24 Sep 2005)

No, basic is 11 weeks.   The only exception to that are two test platoons that are on a 13 week course that started a few weeks ago.


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## Kyle (24 Sep 2005)

jarko said:
			
		

> Was wondering if bmq is 14 weeks now? Which has sq included in bmq



Mine was ten, and my SQ was seven. I did BMQ in St. Jean (0316A), and SQ (0307) in good ol' Gagtown, er, I mean, Gagetown.  We were the first seven-week SQ - previously, the courses were 13. Basically, all they did was take out rocket launchers. Bummer. Then they re-introduced them for the 10-week SQ version. They're always changing the courses, though.


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## mjr payne (24 Sep 2005)

so how long is SQ thease days and is it held in meaford too?


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## D-n-A (24 Sep 2005)

SQ is run at Gagetown, Meaford, Wainwright, Shilo and I would assume at Valcartier aswell.


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## armyvern (24 Sep 2005)

m payne said:
			
		

> so how long is SQ thease days and is it held in meaford too?



SQ runs in Gagetown...among other places...10 weeks...

Basic info contained in this Army News Arcticle with lovely little pics too!!

[urlhttp://www.army.dnd.ca/LFAA_HQ/news_desk/modern.htm][/url]
http://www.army.dnd.ca/LFAA_HQ/arts/Transformation_of_ARTS.htm


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## missNickers (27 Sep 2005)

Wondering about the SQ.  Is it immediately after basic, and how long for?? Also is it likely that their sq will be where they are posted??? I'm a GF of someone at basic in borden, and just hoping to get filled in. Thanks, Niki


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## grayman (27 Sep 2005)

Borden is a recruit school, CFLRS det Borden does not teach SQ's, where recruits go for their SQ could be anywhere as stated in earlier posts.
BMQ is 11 weeks long, with a veiw to movin it up to 13 weeks.  Within the next few months all basics will be 13 weeks long, the 11 week course is a stop gap to fill the hole until 13 BMQ takes over.


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## Kyle (27 Sep 2005)

missNickers said:
			
		

> Wondering about the SQ.  Is it immediately after basic, and how long for?? Also is it likely that their sq will be where they are posted??? I'm a GF of someone at basic in borden, and just hoping to get filled in. Thanks, Niki



I went three months after arriving at Borden, but I don't know much about what the story is today - a lot of changes are being made. Last I heard, they were sending them out right away. Here in Valcartier, a few came right from St. Jean, did their SQ, and then went to Borden, while others had at least been to Borden first, though for how long, I don't know - the conversation was rather brief.


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## tomas (2 Oct 2005)

my sq was 7 weeks long.. I did it in wainwright, ab. it was fun.. but ya i spent alot of time in borden. the problem is.. its all bout time for courses.. sometimes they get loaded right away. other times they dont. .its a hit or miss sorta thing really.. sometimes its perfect sometimes you wait around forever.. like i did
 cant complain though. got some good training in borden, and made a bit of cash too


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## armyjewelz (3 Oct 2005)

Some people have been saying that the next few groups going through BMQ are 14 weeks.... My husbands dates are Oct.31-Feb.03 but there is a reason it is 14 weeks... 3 weeks off at Christmas... I think people are forgetting this and getting worked up... JMHO


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## MJB (3 Oct 2005)

I have conversed with my old platoon warrant who is on the standards committee for the BMQ course and in conversing with him this is what I have come to conclude:

This fall is a pilot course of 13 weeks...
After these few trial runs are completed a further decision will be made pertaining to whether to change back or if this format is better.  
Anyone familiar with the IAP/BOTP training program might also note that this was done with that program a few years back when IAP and BOTP began to run in different summers. There is also a new pilot course coming out for IAP which will be around 14 weeks, with more infantry and troop command training (i.e. section attacks, defensives)...  With this new course the proposition is that CAP (Common Army Phase) will be no more.  
Personally I feel that the CAP course is good in that it reduces the number of *sacks* in the military, however I guess a long IAP course could also accomplish this and perhaps to more of an effect being a longer course than that of the six week CAP course.


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## ChopperHead (3 Oct 2005)

Ok so just wondering would there be much of a difference from the 11 week course and the 13 week one or would it be the same only alittle more spaced out Ie. more free time or something?




Kyle.


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## Bintheredunthat (3 Oct 2005)

Ha ha time off!  So much to learn young grasshopper.

But seriously Chopper, in lamen's terms (because that's all I know  ;D) - courses are sometimes revamped, changed for content, etc. etc. after recommendations by instructors or perhaps standards (who oversee the trainers' training).  Quite often new things will be added or maybe old things will be changed.  With this comes a change of timings and in turn - you end up with a course that either gets shortened or lengthened.  But I highly doubt that a course will ever be changed so that things are a little more spaced out or the troops get more free time.  If only that were so.

Seems that BMQ gets hit with this the most.  I remember when mine was only 8 weeks long.  It went to 10 shortly thereafter.  Sorry guys.  Much has changed in the past few years.

Good luck!

Bin


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## MJB (4 Oct 2005)

lol... More time off?... hahaha... If anything just less I think I may have touched on it in my last post."There is also a new pilot course coming out for IAP which will be around 14 weeks, with more infantry and troop command training (i.e. section attacks, defensives)...  With this new course the proposition is that CAP (Common Army Phase) will be no more."
Personally I feel that the CAP course is good in that it reduces the number of *sacks* in the military, however I guess a long IAP course could also accomplish this and perhaps to more of an effect being a longer course than that of the six week CAP course.


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## niceasdrhuxtable (15 Nov 2007)

ChopperHead said:
			
		

> Ok so just wondering would there be much of a difference from the 11 week course and the 13 week one or would it be the same only alittle more spaced out Ie. more free time or something?



More free time, that's funny! Seriously, they wouldn't add an extra two weeks if there wasn't something to fill them up.


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## case.a (25 Nov 2007)

apparently, according to my boyfriend (who is in week 11 at the moment)  they were trying out a 14 week course in 2007... in 2008 they will make the deicisio to keep it 14 weeks, or return it to the normal.. 10 i think it is


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## Rayman (25 Nov 2007)

I was told 14 for Basic and then your SQ at your unit.


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## grayman (29 Nov 2007)

BMQ is 13 weeks long, with an "administration week" to get things like paperwork, dentals, medicals, PT tests, kit issue. and the like out of the way before the actual course material is taught.  13 weeks + 1 week admin = 14 weeks.


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## Klc (30 Nov 2007)

13+1 Is what I did January 07.... which of course means SFA since they seem to change course lengths every few days.... I have a 4 week SQ coming up now that I'm done 7 months of POET; and my LCIS 3's have no end date, lol....  ;D


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## onecat (7 Dec 2007)

Question, I did my basic in 2004, and what do they do fill the extra weeks with now.  More field ex's or more weapons training?  Hopefully more PT.


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## Nfld Sapper (7 Dec 2007)

Take a look here CFLRS for a schedule for the BMQ Course.


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## dapaterson (7 Dec 2007)

Much of what used to be in SQ has migrated into BMQ, so that all sailors and air men and women get a greater understanding of field life / field conditions, particularly since a significant number of Navy and Air personnel are being used to augment the Land Force on operations.

The new SQ is significantly shorter as a result.


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## KrissyJ (7 Dec 2007)

I also just finished the 13+1 week BMQ. The first week didnt count they said.. .Im not sure what he difference is between 11 and 13. The 13 could definately be condensed I found there was a little too much down time.


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## HItorMiss (7 Dec 2007)

Krissy you did BMQ in Borden, nough said LOL

BMQ in St Jean, a dedicated area for that training has little to no down time during the course (not counting when you earn your weekends of course).


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## aesop081 (7 Dec 2007)

KrissyJ said:
			
		

> The 13 could definately be condensed I found there was a little too much down time.



When i did Basic in 1993 it was 10 weeks and we had zero down time.  Count yourself lucky you had some.


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## HItorMiss (7 Dec 2007)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> When i did Basic in 1993 it was 10 weeks and we had zero down time.  Count yourself lucky you had some.



6 years later in 99 at St Jean same thing...The we went to Meaford where we learned a whole new concept for CB and lack of personal Freedom... Ahhh the good old days LMAO


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## aesop081 (7 Dec 2007)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> 6 years later in 99 at St Jean same thing...The we went to Meaford where we learned a whole new concept for CB and lack of personal Freedom... Ahhh the good old days LMAO



S**t, i made it out of the Mega twice 

After week 6 and after grad.


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## KrissyJ (11 Dec 2007)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Krissy you did BMQ in Borden, nough said LOL
> 
> BMQ in St Jean, a dedicated area for that training has little to no down time during the course (not counting when you earn your weekends of course).



BMQ in Borden is an exact replica of the one done in St.Jean in terms of classes, lessons, PT etc. All our course outlines, our PT Schedule etc has St Jean written right on it (Some of our instructors also came from there). FTR Whoever translated our lesson plans into english did a horrible job! 

Now I agree it was easier because we had nicer instructors a smaller group of people so it was more relaxed in terms of attitude for sure. Im definately fortunate to have done it there especially after just having a baby.  

My reference to the down time is more towards spending 40 min on a class for example about snow shoes in the field. It doesn't take 40 min to teach you the parts on a snowshoe. Another class would be topo, we had endless topo classes and to be honest its not that complicated so spending over I believe it was 8 or more periods throughout the course plotting out grid references was a waste, it definately could have been shortened to say 4 and the other 4 classeses made more useful.  The field and everything else is fine I just wish they shortened the lesson plans which in turn would make the course shorter. Death by powerpoint for sure.


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## aesop081 (11 Dec 2007)

KrissyJ said:
			
		

> BMQ in Borden is an exact replica of the one done in St.Jean in terms of classes, lessons, PT etc. All our course outlines, our PT Schedule etc has St Jean written right on it (Some of our instructors also came from there). FTR Whoever translated our lesson plans into english did a horrible job!
> 
> Now I agree it was easier because we had nicer instructors a smaller group of people so it was more relaxed in terms of attitude for sure. Im definately fortunate to have done it there especially after just having a baby.
> 
> My reference to the down time is more towards spending 40 min on a class for example about snow shoes in the field. It doesn't take 40 min to teach you the parts on a snowshoe. Another class would be topo, we had endless topo classes and to be honest its not that complicated so spending over I believe it was 8 or more periods throughout the course plotting out grid references was a waste, it definately could have been shortened to say 4 and the other 4 classeses made more useful.  The field and everything else is fine I just wish they shortened the lesson plans which in turn would make the course shorter. Death by powerpoint for sure.



The reason why it is seemingly so long is contained in the first 2 paragraphs of your post.  The lesson plans and course structure is the same as for those going to St-Jean. If they indeed have larger groups over there, they require more time to get through the training. You may have had a smaller group but the course MUST be allocated the exact same amounts of time for each PO.


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## Michael OLeary (11 Dec 2007)

KrissyJ said:
			
		

> My reference to the down time is more towards spending 40 min on a class for example about snow shoes in the field. It doesn't take 40 min to teach you the parts on a snowshoe. Another class would be topo, we had endless topo classes and to be honest its not that complicated so spending over I believe it was 8 or more periods throughout the course plotting out grid references was a waste, it definately could have been shortened to say 4 and the other 4 classeses made more useful.  The field and everything else is fine I just wish they shortened the lesson plans which in turn would make the course shorter. Death by powerpoint for sure.



It may not take 40 minutes for each of those classes right now.  But lately we've had our choice of recruits and average education and aptitudes have crept up across the board in recent years.  There are probably very few recruits with minimum education, etc., in current BMQ classes. And those recruits often contributed to the ratio of material vs. time requirement, if only because a few of them needed extra time with the instructor and that made the lessons take 40 minutes.  If we give up that flexibility now, and condense everything, we will not easily get it back when we do need it.


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## Meridian (11 Dec 2007)

Klc said:
			
		

> 13+1 Is what I did January 07.... which of course means SFA since they seem to change course lengths every few days.... I have a 4 week SQ coming up now that I'm done 7 months of POET; and my LCIS 3's have no end date, lol....  ;D



If your SQ course is in meaford, a friend of mine may end up being your Course Officer   God does he ever love meaford.


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## Klc (12 Dec 2007)

Haha - it IS Meaford I'm headed to --- at least I'm not the only LCIS on the serial, so I'm not running a HUGE risk of  being a target, lol.


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## HItorMiss (12 Dec 2007)

Ok we are talking two separate things. What I am talking about is what you said in the paragraph I have quoted



			
				KrissyJ said:
			
		

> Now I agree it was easier because we had nicer instructors a smaller group of people so it was more relaxed in terms of attitude for sure. I'm definitely fortunate to have done it there especially after just having a baby.



Having just had my significant other and one of my  best friend's wife complete BMQ in St Jean, and having seen for a week the BMQ candidates in Borden, I can say the course material maybe exactly the same and all PO's covered to the very same standard, however the atmosphere and attitude of the candidates is completely different. I am not sure why it is so (well that's not true I have my theories I just don't want to insult anyone) I can say that I was personally shocked to see BMQ candidates at the CANEX at 2000hrs on a Sunday or even on weekdays. When I knew candidates in St Jean are not even close to having that liberty. 

It's not any of the candidates fault heck if your given freedom take it and run man run like the wind. I just wouldn't be complaining about down time LMAO. Congrats on passing now comes the fun part.


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## KrissyJ (12 Dec 2007)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Ok we are talking two separate things. What I am talking about is what you said in the paragraph I have quoted
> 
> Having just had my significant other and one of my  best friend's wife complete BMQ in St Jean, and having seen for a week the BMQ candidates in Borden, I can say the course material maybe exactly the same and all PO's covered to the very same standard, however the atmosphere and attitude of the candidates is completely different. I am not sure why it is so (well that's not true I have my theories I just don't want to insult anyone) I can say that I was personally shocked to see BMQ candidates at the CANEX at 2000hrs on a Sunday or even on weekdays. When I knew candidates in St Jean are not even close to having that liberty.
> 
> It's not any of the candidates fault heck if your given freedom take it and run man run like the wind. I just wouldn't be complaining about down time LMAO. Congrats on passing now comes the fun part.



lol I agree with you 100% thats why I said the attitude and instructors are different. Im definately not disagreeing with you. I have 4 friends who just finished BMQ in St Jean. I know how rough it can be! and yes you saw me at the canex on a sunday LOL one time thing, our sgt definately got in huge trouble for that one.  Like I said in my previous post my down time complaint came in terms of the course material i.e 40 min classes. 

I think everyone made a valid point and with that in mind I think 14 weeks is sufficient. Edited out because the comment was clearly innappropriate.


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## stealthylizard (12 Dec 2007)

Perhaps you would like to explain, with all your years.... err umm weeks in the military, that you know the standards are becoming lower.


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## HItorMiss (12 Dec 2007)

CFAT standards are not lowering, the education of the average recruit is however higher then when the minimum scores for the CFAT were calculated. I am not saying troops are smarter, I'm saying they spent longer in school so they have a better grasp on the questions asked on the CFAT. Gone are the days of the grade 6 applicant, welcome to the days of a University and coledge grads joining the NCM ranks.


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## KrissyJ (12 Dec 2007)

I am in no way saying I know everything about the military? Ofcourse I know next to nothing. According to the Captain I spoke to regarding my CFAT before I even wrote it, the scores needed to get certain trades have been lowered. This was done in order to reach the new recruiting goal. That is what I was referring to. I know this for a fact because I was one of the people to get a lower score in the spatial and math portion of my CFAT. Upon completion of the test, I was told that a few years ago my score would not have been sufficient for the trade I was going into. However my college/university experience helped with my ranking to get into the program. Either way I'm not here to insult anyone, the whole start of this thread was about BMQ being 13 weeks. When I said it could be shortened I was referring to MY experience in BORDEN. Obviously everyone experiences basic training different. I didn't ask for my opinion to be argued with I was just simply stating how I viewed my experience to be. This topic could go on forever, I'm no longer going to reply, if anyone would like to continue this please do so over PM. Thank you.


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