# Reserves - Kit



## Munner (3 May 2004)

Hi there,

I am getting sworn in this Thursday and they told me that I will also be issued my kit that day. I was just curious as to what this kit will contain. They told me to make sure that I had a car there because I will have lots to carry if I don‘t!

What all is issued with the kit?? 

Thanks in advance


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## mattoigta (3 May 2004)

"Kit" is a term for all your personal clothing and personal equipment


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## Munner (3 May 2004)

Yes, but what exactly do you get? I‘m not 100% familiar with all the equipment/clothing that I‘ll be getting.


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## 48Highlander (3 May 2004)

guess what, nobody is when they join.  that‘s the whole point of going through basic training, TO LEARN THINGS.  Why do recruits come on here asking be told the most mundane information when they can wait a little while and find out on their own?  Guess what, people here have better things to do than type up lists of what kind of clothing and equipment you‘ll be given in 3 days.  Wait and find out.


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## The_Falcon (3 May 2004)

Why, Why, Why, why? I wanna know right now!


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## kbowes (3 May 2004)

> Originally posted by 48Highlander:
> [qb] guess what, nobody is when they join.  that‘s the whole point of going through basic training, TO LEARN THINGS.  Why do recruits come on here asking be told the most mundane information when they can wait a little while and find out on their own?  Guess what, people here have better things to do than type up lists of what kind of clothing and equipment you‘ll be given in 3 days.  Wait and find out. [/qb]


I‘m agreement with the point you made about ‘learning things‘. However, I can understand and appreciate his curiousity (re: kit contents) as I‘m hoping to make PRes myself. I don‘t see a problem with someone wanting to ask questions. This is a forum isn‘t it?


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## willy (3 May 2004)

I think 48‘s point is that even if this guy doesn‘t know exactly what he‘s going to get, if he knows that he should bring his car, he should know that it‘s going to be a lot.  Nobody has the time to type out a complete list of everything you‘re issued, and it shouldn‘t be expected that someone will.  The original poster was told that he‘d get his clothing, etc.  Good enough.


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## kbowes (3 May 2004)

Yes, I can see 48‘s reasoning. It‘d be a long list indeed. Maybe he could‘ve worded his answer like you just did.


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## Freight_Train (3 May 2004)

I did a quick search and found this thread.   http://army.ca/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/16/706? 
Hope this helps,
Greg


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## Munner (3 May 2004)

Thanks Freight!

As for 48 I‘m just excited about joining and was anxious to find out! It‘s not like I‘m coming on here and asking for you to explain everythign that I‘m going to learn in basic training.

Forums are a place for people to meet and discuss things and for new people to maybe ask a few questions. If you didn‘t want to answer you didn‘t have to, no need to go on a big rant. With the amount time that it took you to get all worked up and write your unhelpful, fairly useless response you could have rambled off a quick list of things. 

Anyways, you obviously have much "better things" you could be doing then reading some dumb new recruits message right? You better get back to those things and not waste any more time here! Go Go Go!


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## BDTyre (3 May 2004)

I assume that the old ODs are still issued so they can get rid of them.  If this army is so cash strapped, why not follow the American example and sell the old-issue uniforms and gear off to wholesalers, retailers and collectors by the case?


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## 48Highlander (3 May 2004)

If you‘re that anxious and excited about a few pieces of equipment, you‘ll pee yourself before you even make it to weapons training.  And if your attitude on here is indicative of how you‘ll respond to your course staff, you will NOT pass your basic training.

There‘s no such thing as a stupid question.

Just a lot of inquisitive idiots.


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## Munner (3 May 2004)

I‘m excited about the whole experience, not just the few pieces of equipment. I don‘t see why you are making such a big deal out of this. I was just curious as to what exactly was going to be in the kit, so I thought I‘d post a quick question.

My attitude towards you in not indicative of how I‘ll respond to the course staff. obviously that would not fly very well. But these are just forums, and it‘s frustrating to see people like you come on here with their "i‘m better than you because I‘m more experienced" attitudes. Remember that you were also a new wide eyed recruit at one time. These forums are a place for people to come and learn something, so why don‘t you try having some patience with the new recruits instead of posting negative comments. You‘re not really contributing anything usefull by putting people down.


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## kbowes (3 May 2004)

> Originally posted by 48Highlander:
> [qb] If you‘re that anxious and excited about a few pieces of equipment, you‘ll pee yourself before you even make it to weapons training. There‘s no such thing as a stupid question.
> 
> Just a lot of inquisitive idiots. [/qb]


48, I think that remark was unwarranted. As I said before, this is a forum. I‘m sure that at times some inquiries might seem a bit redundant; however, everyone has to start somewhere. What would be better? Giving everyone ‘read-only access‘ except you?


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## 48Highlander (3 May 2004)

Using common sense would be a start.  Now I understand that common sense is in short supply these days, but there are certain things that should be rather obvious.  If he was really so curious he could have asked whoever it was that told him he‘d be getting his kit on that day.  They would have given him an answer similar to the one that Scarlino provided.  If he then asked "Yes, but what exactly do you get?" (as he did here), he would have been given an answer similar to the one I provided.  Asking your questions in a forum instead of in real life does not autoaticaly make it alright to disregaurd all common sense and protocol.


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## Munner (3 May 2004)

Actually it was because I used common sense at the time that I did not ask those questions. At the time, the person who told me I would be getting my kit was busy, and I didn‘t want to bother her with any other questions. Instead, I figured I would come here where people can choose whether or not to reply, and do so at their our leisure. 

Perhaps it is you that is lacking common sense, and also lacking general respect for others. 

Anyways, the object of my post was not to start an argument. Freight directed me to the info that I was looking for, so I see no point in furthering this petty argument with you. It‘s funny however that you say you have better things to do, yet you somehow manage to reply to my posts mere minutes after I post them! I can see how you wouldn‘t have been able to pencil in 3 minutes to type out a list of things I would be getting.


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## 48Highlander (3 May 2004)

a)  I have no respect for recruits, especially ones asking dumbass questions.  pass your course and I might show you some.

b)  I get many, MANY questions like yours every day.  They‘re always the same, annoying as ****, and totally pointless.  If I "pencilled in 3 minutes" for each of them...you get the idea.

c)  I‘m not fighting with you.  My last post was directed at Kurbo.

d)  you‘re not a god**** private, you‘re a recruit.  pull that ******* chevron off of your profile, you haven‘t earned it yet.

that‘s it from me.  if you have any intelligent questions to ask in the future I‘ll be more than happy to answer them.  untill then, go away.


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## Pikache (3 May 2004)

Everyone, chilax.

Munner, grow some thick skin. You‘ll need it during course. If you think 48th is being hard on you for no good reason, wait until you‘re on your course.

While this is just a mere forum and we do try to keep things as casual as possible, there is a some sort of hierarchy here, as this is a military forum.
So, when at least a corporal tells you to STFU because you‘re a recruit, you STFU and go away and chew on why the corporal/whatever rank told you to STFU.
Then if you still think you have a problem with it, ask him why you should STFU and please, take it to personal email or PM.

Life is not fair, even more so in military world.

Enthusiasm is good, but you‘d find it better that keeping your mouth shut most of the time while learning from those who have more experience would benefit you well. Talking too much makes you stand out and those who stand out tend to have harder time on course.

To reinterate what I‘m trying to say, this is a MILITARY forum, not a CIVVY forum. We promote military thinking here, not civvy ways.

Remember, you may just meet members of this forum during your military career and you don‘t want to piss them off.    

PS: Munner, one chevron is rank of a trained private.  You‘re a no hook private RECRUIT. You don‘t get your one hook until you pass  your trade course.


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## The_Falcon (3 May 2004)

What he said


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## chrisf (3 May 2004)

> Originally posted by BDTyre:
> [qb] I assume that the old ODs are still issued so they can get rid of them.  If this army is so cash strapped, why not follow the American example and sell the old-issue uniforms and gear off to wholesalers, retailers and collectors by the case? [/qb]


Because the return will be pennies on the dollar...

The old uniforms still do the job for recruits, actually, they‘re even better for recruits, they wrinkle rather easily compared to the new uniforms, and the wrinkles show much more easily, takes a lot more work to keep them looking good...


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## Da_man (3 May 2004)

I was sworn in over a month ago and i STILL DONT HAVE MY KIT


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## The_Falcon (3 May 2004)

Ah, muffin. You know I feel bad for you I really do. Tell you what, I will talk to my buddies at ASU, and have them put you in front of all the people (who are trained and trade qualified by the way) who are still waiting for thier CADPAT, Tac Vest, WWB‘s, not mention those going overseas and have a real operational need for thier kit.  As a new recruit you can jump straight to the front of the line.


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## Korus (3 May 2004)

We had a new recruit who paraded for almost a month in Civvies before he could get his basic kit issue... Now he just needs a haircut..   

BTW, as a more general note, this rank:





Is that of private trained, and is something earned after BMQ, SQ, QL3 (or whatever it‘s called).

Private untrained (recruit) is no chevron.


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## The_Falcon (3 May 2004)

Are you listening Da_man and munner.  You guys are NOT Pte. or Private. You are Pte(R) and Private Recruit.  So lose the bloody chevrons


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## Pikache (3 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Da_man:
> [qb] I was sworn in over a month ago and i STILL DONT HAVE MY KIT       [/qb]


Well, you ain‘t the only person with kit problems.

Keep asking your section commander and 2 i/c about it. It‘s basically all you can do.

But yeah, you should have all your kit (at least the essentials) before you start your BMQ, but this isn‘t a perfect world. (Esp. in our military)


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## childs56 (4 May 2004)

for all the new people out their wanting to join the reserves or regular force dont be discouraged by a few people who think they are better then you (if they had common sense they would make a list of kit you would be issued and post it so you could all see) remember everyone in the military have all been were you have going. for you guys that are getting your nose alittle out of joint over some basic questions ,hmmmm i hope you dont teach new recruits. if you blow your gasket here, i can only imagine what you do on a course, not good at all. if you are an instructer then you should maybe rethink about how you deal with new recruits and instead of demeaning them about so called stupid  questions and using dumb quotes, you should pass on your info in a more calm and clear manner. i have taught reserve ql2/ ql3 and driver wheel courses and have seen all types of good, ok and crappy instructors. one thing i did notice is that the ones with the attitude that recruits were worth nothing were the first ones to blame their soldiers for their own faliures. lead by example.


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## Munner (4 May 2004)

SheesshhH! i never though asking such a simple question would lead to this. Anyways, as for me growing thick skin etc. I do have thick skin, I guess I just misunderstood the way this forum works. 
Posting something on a forum and getting flamed or getting flamed by an instructor to me is different. Obviously I would not be mouthy or talk back to an instructor, I just thought this forum was more of an open concept where peoples ranks didn‘t mean that what they said is more important, or give them the right to talk down to others. 

As requested I have changed my Avatar. Hopefully that will calm this storm!


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## jonsey (4 May 2004)

If it‘s such a big deal to type up the huge list of kit everytime someone asks about it, and it happens a lot, why not type up a list and post it in the FAQ? Isn‘t that what the FAQ‘s there for?


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## Korus (4 May 2004)

> As requested I have changed my Avatar. Hopefully that will calm this storm!


I didn‘t mean to cause a shitstorm, and my comment was a general one, not aimed at anyone specifically.. Lots of new recruits come in putting up PTE trained before they have any training. It‘s kind of incongruous to the questions asked..


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## The_Falcon (4 May 2004)

CTD, I am curious, you say you have taught courses, but the rank you list in your profile is Pte?  Could you please eleborate, because I think you are full of it.  I am not an instructor, but some of the best instructors I had were the ones that you describe as be awful ie demeaning, in your face etc. I do not know what your trade is (as you forgot to mention that little part) but if you are joining the combat arms and you can not handle being yelled at and made to fell 2 inches tall because you are asking dumb questions, or can not operate your weapon properly I suggest you find a new trade. Not suggesting people go Sgt Hartman style on recruits, but the instructors have no obligation to be nice to them. They are recruits and have not earned anything at all, the instructors are not there to be their friends and hold their hands.  That was the way I was treated on course, and I would not go back and change it.  

As for writing the list why don‘t you do it CTD, seeing as how you were an instructor right?


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## Pte.Nomercy (4 May 2004)

Munner,

I can understand that you‘re offended quite a bit at the responses you got. 

You have to understand though,these forums are to mostly start up conversations and not to provide you with kit lists, that was some one else‘s responsbility.

I can see how people got upset at you and I do understand why things got out of hand, but you need to realize that sometimes on these forums and I‘ve seen it happen, people like Cadets (shudders) and hyper active recruits have more then one occasion started "What kit do you have?forums" which resulted in, mostly Cadets giving, 50 PAGE LONG FORUMS showing off on what crappy non issue outdated gear they had bought at military surpluses and "how they know it‘s good kit from all their time in the field."

You also set off allot of people by "promoting" yourself to a qualified private. You're a recruit have a long way to go before you get that rank, and when you do, I can assure you that you will not be very enthusiastic about new recruits.


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## Munner (4 May 2004)

Perhaps. Like I said before, just a misunderstanding. I know that I‘m a new recruit and have lots to learn!


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## childs56 (4 May 2004)

Hey Falcon, I spent 8 years in the reserve artillery i was a 6a MBDR for the last few, served as a gun det cmdr for a couple of years and been to Bosnia ROTO 7 as a BDR. i am now in the airforce, why i dont realy know maybe its the money hmmm. any ways if an instructer is demeaning to you, all they are doing is getting you angry. firm fair friendly, is the way to instruct. i have worked beside people who have yelled in recruits faces and five minutes latter did the same to a wo, why cause they were both doing somthing wrong.and needed to be corrected if you for a second think that a recruit is a second class soldier not worthy of your time maybe you need to rethink why you are in the military. recruits have gone through a process and made the cut to that point. and now they need further guidence from skilled and professional soliers to aquire the skills to become a good soldier, regardless if they are a civvy or a recruit or a seasond vetern they all deserve your respect. now saying all this when an instructer yells at a troop its not personnalle its part of the job. when you yell something has gone wrong or you are stressing a point. saying this if all you do is yell all they here is blah blah blah. as an instructor you need to be able to control your opinions and views and get the job done no matter how small or petty the a question or task might be.  i will say i am a new member on here and so far i have seen some good posts untill now. You have identified that this question has kept comming up ( what kind of kit do you get issued)maybe as a senior member on this forum  you would have taken the initiative and published a list of what you get and put it in the faq section. or something similar. you could then redirect these ? to it. think, you dont have to make a complete list just one that overviews what a new recruit can expect. hmm hard i dont know i am new to this forum and would expect the senior soldiers on here to be a little more mature about the small things.  i didnt want to cause any problems here and get off on the wrong foot. cheers


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## willy (4 May 2004)

Kids, this is a basic list of what you might get.  Keep in mind that the exact quantities of kit you will receive will vary based on location, availability, etc.

Combat Uniform, Complete (Shirt & Pants) x 2 or 3 sets
Combat Boots x 2 pairs
Combat T Shirts x 4
Socks
Underwear
Beret
Field Cap
1982 Pattern Webgear x 1 set
1982 Pattern Rucksack, Complete
Sleeping Bag, Complete (Liner, Inner, Outer)
Kevlar Helmet
Duffle Bag
Bath & Hand Towel

Now you know.


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## childs56 (4 May 2004)

is their a way to put that list in the faq section so the new guys can be directed their to see this list.


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## Freight_Train (4 May 2004)

Putting an equipment list in the FAQ‘s would work and would be a great idea.  Unfortunately, I have noticed most people sign up on this site and are gung ho and want their questions answered right now!  If the info was posted to the FAQ's, there is no guarantee that a recruit will actually go looking for it.
I can see it now, experienced Canadian Forces professional directing another newbie to the recruiting FAQ's and blowing a gasket around the thousandth time someone asks the same question.  I guess what I am saying is, new guys and girls, poke around the site a bit before posting a question.  Look in the recruiting section, use the search function.  For the first little while keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
Just my civilian (for now) .02


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## sgt_mandal (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by 48Highlander:
> [qb]
> There‘s no such thing as a stupid question.
> 
> Just a lot of inquisitive idiots. [/qb]


ROTFL!!!
That is FUNNY! finally aa good comeback to teh age old "There is no stupid question"


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## devil39 (4 May 2004)

> Originally posted by 48Highlander:
> [qb] a)  I have no respect for recruits, especially ones asking dumbass questions.  pass your course and I might show you some.
> 
> b)  I get many, MANY questions like yours every day.  They‘re always the same, annoying as ****, and totally pointless.  If I "pencilled in 3 minutes" for each of them...you get the idea.
> ...


48Highlander,

All personnel should be treated with respect.  Period.  Recruits included, and absolutely without argument.

Would you appreciate it if you were told that you were not to be respected because you were "only" a Militia MCpl?  By someone who was Reg Force and outranked you?  

You probably wouldn‘t appreciate that.  That type of comment would be unprofessional, abusive and immature.

That type of attitude is counterproductive to creating a cohesive team.  

This does not mean that you should not be strict, demanding, and maintain a very high standard.


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## Pikache (4 May 2004)

I think you‘re mistaking courtesy with respect.

Respect is earned, never given away cheaply.

Courtesy however, well, there is minimum amount of courtesy that everyone should get, even recruits.


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## The_Falcon (4 May 2004)

CTD well all that info is not in your profile.  Like what unit you served with, which camp were you at in bosnia, why your profile indicates you are a private but your Avatar info says civillian. I still don‘t believe you. And second did you even read what I posted? My instructors yelled at me yes, but that did not make me angry at them.  It meant I screwed up, or someone else screwed up (if someone else screwed up I would take it out on them not the instructor).  If you are going to be nice to recruits you will not stress them out, and they need to learn how to deal with stress in order to operate especially in the infantry. If you are under contact manning a C6/C9 and it jams, and you can not get it fixed ASAP, and your superior starts going off on you and you can‘t handle that, get out of the army.  Like RHF said you can be courteous, but respect is earned. Instructors are their to make sure the recruit can fight. Not to be their mom, or their friend.  They can be friendly was the cornflake is gone.


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## Jarnhamar (5 May 2004)

"a) I have no respect for recruits, especially ones asking dumbass questions. pass your course and I might show you some.
b) I get many, MANY questions like yours every day. They‘re always the same, annoying as ****, and totally pointless. If I "pencilled in 3 minutes" for each of them...you get the idea.
c) I‘m not fighting with you. My last post was directed at Kurbo.
d) you‘re not a god**** private, you‘re a recruit. pull that ******* chevron off of your profile, you haven‘t earned it yet.
that‘s it from me. if you have any intelligent questions to ask in the future I‘ll be more than happy to answer them. untill then, go away. "


Is this really a good example of a leader?
I don‘t know if it‘s me but I find it kinda scary when  a LEADER says "I have no respect for recruits".
What happens when someone who wants to join the army comes here and see‘s that an instructor they might have possibly wont respect them? 
What an excellent way to make someone feel welcomed to the Canadian Forces, maybe you should work in recruiting. Thats just horrible.

Falcon theres a difference between someone being on course and someone asking a question in the recruiting form on a public web site. 

You guys need to relax.


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## The_Falcon (5 May 2004)

I am quite relaxed, ask my shrink he told me the same thing, you might require a medium though.


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## Fishbone Jones (5 May 2004)

Falcon, 
Re: Drills, etc. Like the Speedy commercial: "First you get good, then you get fast". They‘ll never get confident if you tear them a new ******* every time. Don‘t forget, we all started at the same place. None of us were born knowing misfire drills. Patience is a virtue. All the other platitudes, "You catch more flys with honey" etc, apply. We all have lousy days and short tolerance at times. Sometimes, (most times) I‘m no saint either.....but. Square breathing my Brother.


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## The_Falcon (5 May 2004)

I did not say yelling and screaming all the time a la Sgt. Hartman (Full Metal Jacket). I said it was acceptable (at least to me) from time to time and when warranted. Like if you are under "contact" (you know out in the field, and not on the parade square), and the troops can not get the gun going.  At that point the troops should have had enough practice time on the guns and they should have passed thier handling tests, and be good to go for the field. Have I made it clear what I mean yet?


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## childs56 (5 May 2004)

Falcon i was with Ctroop B BTY 1RCHA ROTO7.


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## childs56 (5 May 2004)

Falcon I was with C troop B BTY 1RCHA ROTO7. I spent the fisrt 3 months living in a tent just out side of Glamoc. I then moved to TSG and contined on for the remainder of my tour. during my tour i was employed as a C9 gunner. My reserve unit was 56 BTY 5 FD REGT RCA. I was a Gun Det Cmdr when I left for the airforce for full time employment with good money(hence why i bought a  new truck). as for you not believing me if i was or was not in Bosnia,or even in the military hmm well i guess everyone has an opinion. some are justified some are misinformed. people dont have to brag about what they have done or not done to be accepted, if your good at your job and you know it, thats all that matters. as for you trying to compare a recruit learning how to do  drills with a wpn to him asking a question, hmm well i guess they all have a close simularity. ok not realy. thats why people go to basic training is to learn how to put up with the BS, the yelling and the stress. if we all came in able to deal with it, then their would be no use in having to train everyone. if you have anything further to discuss please email me through the system here. and then we can talk some more. everyone else i am sorry if i have gone on, i am tired of know it all troops trying to degrade and belittle everyone else around them. everyone have a good day


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## Jarnhamar (5 May 2004)

CTD sounds legit to me, quite a bit of experence too.

I‘ve found the best instructors I‘ve had never raised their voice. Their bearing and professionalisim yelled for them.

My basic course have one reg force instructor and 7 reserves. The reg force corporal never made any of the stupid army comments that you always hear, never quoted full metal jacket and i can‘t remember him a time he lost his cool and flipepd out. That being said he was the most feared and respected of our instructors because he looked like a soldier, spoke like a soldier and acted like one. 

We feared losing his respect 100 times more then we feared doing push ups, extra drill, red chits or punishment from the other mcpls and sgt‘s.


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## RCA (5 May 2004)

I will vouch for CTD because we have served together in WATC Firing Troop last year. I'll even forgive him for going Air Force.

If the bullshit I hear on here is indicative of the 48 Highlanders, there‘s a Regt you might want to avoid. You are arrogant without the experience. (This does not apply to all, but there are quite a few just in this topic). You sound like a lot of you are in need of running with the handspike to clear the mush from your brains. And I defy you to challenge me, as I do not put my rank or TI down either.

 All the kid asked for was what he was expected to issued. All that was required was a link to an appropriate thread or a shorten version such as webbing, combats, rucksack etc. Not a tirade from the peanut gallery. It was a simple question that deserved a simple answer. 

 For a MCpl to say he has no respect for a recruit is one of the most asinine things I have heard in a long time. One of your primary functions to instruct. If you think recruits are no better then whaleshit that is how you treat them. You will earn no respect and in the long run you will turn out poor candidates. Your job is to pass your wisdom and knowledge to them, not boost your ego by scaring the **** out of them because you have the â Å“powerâ ? (sounds like an inferiority complex to me). There is a time and place to raise your voice, and guaranteed it is always planned, otherwise you come across as a screaming banshee who has lost control. I always found a whispered word into the ear from behind usually did the trick.

For other 48 Highlanders out there, get a grip, these few here are giving you a bad name.


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## devil39 (5 May 2004)

Certainly this is a private site, and quite frankly it is probably none of my business.

However at times it pains me to observe some of the attitude and embarassing rhetoric displayed by some participants who claim to be members of the CF.  By claiming to be soldiers, they become the public face of the CF.  At times it is quite the ugly face here.

There likely is no solution. 

However in appealing to professionalism, perhaps those who purport to be CF members may wish to consider the maturity of their post, and how that post will be viewed in a public forum before they hit "add reply". 

That public maturity may be the best means of identifying who is a real soldier and who is a "poser".


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## bossi (5 May 2004)

I just stumbled across this little flame firefight, and frankly I‘m embarassed.

Newbies have a right to ask questions, and should not be chastised for their curiousity.  If necessary, there are ingenious ways of curbing their enthusiasm if it starts to run amok (e.g. telling them to see the QM for a bucket of tartan paint ...) but hurling insults is not the way.

We‘ll try to watch this more carefully to avoid further repetitions of such pedantic behaviour.


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## muskrat89 (5 May 2004)

The question was reasonable. As a Mod, I‘d like to apologize for not noticing this train-wreck sooner.

Ditto what the others said about hollering.

Regarding chevrons, you learn rank structure on Basic Training/BMQ whatever they call it these days. If you haven‘t had the course yet, how would one ever know what the rank of Private looked like? Not knowing, I would start with the first one....a single chevron....duh

To all of the yappy ones, you have just drawn the attention of nearly every Mod on the Board. Posers only annoy, but they are dealt with quickly. You guys, though, have embarrassed us - tread lightly.


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## 48Highlander (5 May 2004)

I‘d like to apologise if I‘ve offended anyone with my replies to Munner, or if I‘ve been a negative influence in these forums.  That was not my intention.  I thought my reply was reasonable, and there seem to be other NCM‘s on here who agree with that.

However, since the moderators find this type of conduct unacceptable, I am willing to admit that I may be in the wrong.  Certainly, I could have ignored the post instead of replying to it as I did.  The tone of my post was mainly due to frustration resulting from having to deal with the same pointless questioning from recruits on courses.  I understand that these forums are supposed to be a more relaxed atmosphere, and that because of that my response may seem overly harsh, and unproductive.  I‘d like to assure the moderators that you will not see a reply like this from me in the future.

As to all of those who thought that saying that I do not have respect for recruits was "unprofesional", I think you‘re right out to lunch.  Respect is something that‘s earned, not something you automatically get for answering roll-call.  If my troops demonstrate that they have a positive attitudes, are ready to learn, and are able to meet the standard I expect of them, then they will have earned my respect.  Otherwise they‘ll have to work their asses off to get it.  That applies to members of ANY rank, but especially so to brand new recruits.


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## Michael OLeary (5 May 2004)

48Highlander,

I have refrained from posting in this thread until now, but I feel it is necessary to correct you on one point.

Yes, respect must be earned, but you are forgetting that at the same time that you expect them (of ANY rank) to earn YOUR repect, YOU must also earn THEIRS. When you are demonstrating that you do not yet respect someone, how do you expect them to gain any amount of respect for you?


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## bossi (5 May 2004)

Loyalty, and respect, are a two-way street.


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## 48Highlander (5 May 2004)

In other words, I should respect someone who has in no way earned that respect, just so that they will respect me back?

I don‘t know sounds a little backwards to me   

I‘m not saying I‘m automatically not going to respect a recruit just because he‘s a recruit.  A good number of recruits arrive on course fully prepared, and earn my respect within minutes.  Some do not manage to earn it at all.  And the vast majority manage it over the next couple weeks.  Yes, respect is a two way street.  However, as a new recruit I respected my instructors even when I knew for sure that I had lost their respect.  It just made me work harder to try and get it back.  If I respected every recruit simply because I wanted their respect, I wouldn‘t be a very effective instructor.


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## Michael OLeary (5 May 2004)

You don‘t have to respect him immediately, but you do have to demonstrate that you are worthy of his respect. The professional approach is to prove from the first impression that your respect is worth earning.


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## 48Highlander (5 May 2004)

Well thanks for the advice.  I‘m not sure what your opinion of me is based on what you‘ve seen so far, but I‘ve never treated my soldiers poorly if they did not deserve it.  Our platoon adm cpl last summer asked the troops who their favourite instructor was, and according to him the majority picked me.  I‘m not sure how proffesional it is to be asking questions like that in the first place, and it‘s certainly not my job to try and win a popularity contest, but at least it goes to show that I don‘t have a problem earning their respect.  I‘m just sorry that I seem to have done the opposite in these forums.


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## childs56 (5 May 2004)

respect is a two way steet. in order to have respect you have to gain respect. i personnaly respect eveyone and everything i know or do. this is untill something happens for me to lose this respect. many times i have been let down by my superiors and lost respect for them one by one. whats more important is the i have lost respect for some of my soldiers for how they treat others around them. if we are a team in the military then we need to work towards that goal if that means i have to go help soldier out at the wee hours of the night on my own time well i guess thats what i am going to do. if we have no respect for the people we train or work with, we cannot effectivly do our jobs as soldiers. when i was over seas i went on a patrol with a officer from another unit one evening, he looked down at some locals and yelled at them "your all a bunch of f*&^%%g savages. i looked over at his sgt and said what was that for, we have spent3 months trying to get these people calmed down and he goes and says this. that day i lost all respect for that individual. but not for his corps." this is an example of a person who had no respect for these people. some of them were battle hardened soldiers. some of them were civilians. he showed no respect for these people. as bad as it is, i found out later he had little respect for his troops that worked for him. this is why we need to have respect for everyone unless they lose your respect for a just cause. you dont know who you are dealing with. cheers guys maybe we should start a post on what being a soldier means.


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## Pikache (5 May 2004)

Well, this thread certainly has turned interesting and with lots of good points, some bad, whatever.

*CTD*, it would really help if you separate your points. Everything clumped together is kinda hard to read.


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## Jarnhamar (5 May 2004)

"As to all of those who thought that saying that I do not have respect for recruits was "unprofesional", I think you‘re right out to lunch. Respect is something that‘s earned, not something you automatically get for answering roll-call."

I think you should respect everyone, period. Recruits, civilians, retired members and enemy soldiers. Respecting someone as a good soldier or good leader IS earned and something different then respecting people on a whole. I think it‘s important to make this distinction.

I  think if the soldiers in iraq involved with the prisoner abuse investigation had respected the prisoners (enemy soldiers/suspects) they wouldnt have touched off an intertational incident and embarassed their country. A little respect goes a log way.


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## stukirkpatrick (6 May 2004)

That raises an interesting point, if everybody in the world just respected each other, than wars over ethnicity, class, rights, etc would not occur.  LGen Dallaire‘s book mentions respect several times, and how the lack of it contributed to the problems UNAMIR faced in Rwanda - the lack of respect countries had for the mission itself, and the lack of respect between the RPF (rebels) and the RGF (gov‘t).

I‘ll have a good chance to learn more about the genocide, at a lecture by Major Beardsley at my armoury tommorow night

Wow, this thread has definitely strayed away from a simple kit list request.


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## 48Highlander (6 May 2004)

That is an interesting point...however, I don‘t think it‘s that simple.  There are deffinitely bad reasons for witholding respect...like you said, ethinicity and class are among them.  Also race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc.  But in my opinion, there are also good reasons for not respecting someone.  Why should I have any respect for someone who‘s lazy or has a poor attitude?  I‘ll still respect their rights and freedoms as individuals, but that‘s about it.  Or why respect a policy that‘s not working?  If everyone respected every person and policy, both good and bad, the bad things would never get changed.

  That doesn‘t mean that if you don‘t like a policy you shouldn‘t follow it, or if you don‘t respect an individual you should treat him like **** on a regular basis, it just means you have to work on changing it.  Being harsh with recruits tends to change their attitudes and conduct, which is the point of doing it.  I‘m not going to yell at a soldier who‘s lost my respect just to make myself feel better, I‘ll do it in order to motivate him to improve.  Isn‘t that the idea behind discipline in the CF?


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## Munner (6 May 2004)

48th I understand where you are coming from with the respect thing. You are basically saying that just because I got signed up for the reserves isn‘t really good enough to have your full respect. I can kinda understand that. 

But you did say, that you had respect for the recruits that come well prepared. I do not know a lot about how everything is run, as you‘ve seen from my mistake of "promoting" myself to private when I‘m really just a recruit. I also don‘t know how to do simple things like march properly, or form on the parade square etc. and I don‘t know the proper terms, or even all the details of the equipment that I will be using. That was part of the reason as to why I asked the question about the kit. At least if I had a general idea of what I was getting I wouldn‘t feel like such a dummy when they said things like "ruck sack" etc. 

I want to be prepared as possible. I am getting sworn in tomorrow (thursday) so last thursday I dropped by the Armoury and sat and watched, and for some activities took part (dressed in my civilian clothes) just so that I wouldn‘t be clueless for my first official night. I wanted to get a grasp on how things worked, who I salute, how I salute and things like that. 

It was just frustrating that I got flamed, for trying to get a head start.

Obviously this has been blown a bit out or proportion though and has strayed off on a few different tangents regarding what makes a good soldier. Everyone has their own opinions, and we have to respect that. 

On a side note, 48Highlander did private message me and apologize for the way he came off in his post. I don‘t think that he meant to tear me a new *******, he was just frustrated with my "newbie" question that he‘s hear a million times. Understandable. Sometime‘s it‘s just better to turn the other cheek. 

So anyways, like I said I‘m getting sworn in tomorrow and I‘m pretty excited about it. I get issued my kit so I‘ll know EXACTLY what I‘ll get! hahah perhaps I‘ll come and post a full list here for other curious recruits like myself!

Take care!


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## 48Highlander (6 May 2004)

Let me know how the signing in goes, and good luck with your course.

    When I said "prepared" I didn‘t mean knowledge wise.  An instructors job is to teach you everything you need to know, so we don‘t expect you to know anything.  Being prepared to me means having the right attitude, and if you‘re really as eager to learn as your posts make it seem then I don‘t think you‘ll have a problem with that at all.  Even if one of your instructors gets annoyed at the questions you‘re asking (like I did) it‘s not something that‘ll make them lose respect for you.  The only things that‘ll do that are a poor attitude, and gross incompetence, and it doesn‘t seem like you‘ll have a problem with either.


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## McInnes (6 May 2004)

Munner, if you would take the time and effort to write down your kit (you should recieve a list of all the kit and all of the prices when you recieve your kit, they will make you sign for it, if they dont give a copy to you, ask for an extra copy...it can also come in handy if you lose something and want to know how much it costs), and post it here, I would be very grateful to you, and will put it in the recruiting faq. Wish you the best of luck...watch and learn, watch and learn.


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## Lost_Warrior (6 May 2004)

Good god. What a mess of a thread... 

Munner, here is an answer to your question.  I am currently finishing up my BMQ, and this is what I recieved.  

Combat Pants x2
Combat Shirt x2
Combat t-shirt x3
Combat Boots x2
Over-boots (rain gear) x1
Beret x1
Kevlar Hemlet x1
Combat Belt x1
Gerber (an all in one tool like a swiss army knife) x1
Wool socks x4
PT T-Shirt x2
PT Shorts x2
PT Joging pants x2
PT shoes x1
Webbing pieces (which they will show you how to put together)
C7 Mag pouch x2
C9 Mag pouch x1
Butt pack (for webbing) x1
Cantine pouch (for webbing) x1
KFS pouch (for webbing) x1
Bayonet pouch (for webbing) x1
Cantine (1 liter) x1
Cantine (2 liter) x1
Thurmas x1
Ruck Sack (it will come in pieces.  You will learn to put it together)
Kit Bag (duffle Bag) x2
Barrack Box x1
Sleeping Bag x2
Ground sheet x1
Bivy Bag x1
Ranger blanket x1
Parka x1
4 Seasons jacket x1
Rain coat x1
Rain pants x1
Mucklucks (winter boots) x1
Leather combat gloves x1
Trigger gloves (winter) x1
White winter combats x1
White ruck sack cover-all x1
White helmit cover x1
Winter cammo thurmal sheet x1
Gas Mask/filter x1
Sewing kit x1
Cap Badge x1
Foot powder x1
Combat flashlight x1
Wind/Waterproof matches x1 pack
Cup x1
Plate x1


I‘m probably missing some stuff, so if anyone can please fill in the blanks.  Hope this helps Munner, and good luck.  You‘re going to have a blast on your BMQ!


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## Pikache (6 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Ghost778:
> [qb]
> I  think if the soldiers in iraq involved with the prisoner abuse investigation had respected the prisoners (enemy soldiers/suspects) they wouldnt have touched off an intertational incident and embarassed their country. A little respect goes a log way. [/qb]


Personally I‘d think that‘s just unprofessional behaviour and failure in leadership somewhere, but it‘s another topic.


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## RJG (6 May 2004)

Thank you Lost_Warrior for being the only one who stayed on topic and answered the question.

others...

Sure your points are interesting, maybe go to off topic and share them, this is not the place to post them.


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## McInnes (6 May 2004)

An initial kit list has been added to the recruiting FAQ under ‘Kit‘   
Initial Kit List (Recruiting FAQ) 

Corrections, comments and queries are welcome.
Hope that helps.
Cheers


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## mattoigta (6 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Aquilus Lupin:
> [qb] An initial kit list has been added to the recruiting FAQ under ‘Kit‘
> Initial Kit List (Recruiting FAQ)
> 
> ...


You should also include

5x Boxer Briefs
5x Pairs of Wool Socks


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## Munner (6 May 2004)

Hey Guys,

Well I just got back from being sworn in. Feels great! 

However the supply tech wasn‘t there today, so I don‘t get issued my kit until next wed. or thur. 

I‘ll check the list that was posted with what I get, and post any of the differences.


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## Razic (7 May 2004)

what about the cadpat thong?!?!


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## RCA (7 May 2004)

RJG:

One freebie - Watch your tone.

Some of these go off on a tangent, nature of the beast.


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