# UK female police officers made to wear hijab to improve relations w/ Muslims



## CougarKing (28 Jul 2009)

Note the underlined part of the first line though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5920360/Police-force-gives-headscarves-to-female-officers-to-wear-with-Muslims.html



> *The force's female police officers and Police Community Support Officers are being given uniform-issue head coverings to be worn when they are on duty and entering places of worship.
> 
> There are two versions of the head coverings to match the black of a police officer's uniform and the blue of the Police Community Support Officer uniforms.*
> 
> ...


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Jul 2009)

Where will it stop?


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## PMedMoe (28 Jul 2009)

I personally don't see a problem with this.  They are only asked to wear it when on duty *and* entering a place of worship.  It is a sign of respect.  It could be an issue if it prevented them from doing something that may be required, such as donning a gas mask, for instance.

This is only a head covering, not a full face covering, yes?


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## Roy Harding (28 Jul 2009)

IFF the constables wear it ONLY when entering a place of worship - then I don't have a problem with it.

It seems similar to me to men donning a yarmulke when entering a Synagogue (although Synagogues usually supply them to their guests), or taking your hat off when entering a church, or your shoes off when entering other places of worship.  It's a show of respect for the customs of the people for whom that building is special.

I'd have a hard time with it if the constables were expected to wear it ALL the time while in uniform.  I've read the article a few times - and it _appears_ to me that the scarves are only donned when entering the mosque.

Of course - whether Roy Harding has a "a problem with it" or not is, in all probability, of little consequence to the good citizens under the protection of the Avon and Somerset Constabulary.


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## mariomike (28 Jul 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> It is a sign of respect.



I agree. As is wearing surgical "booties".


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## Snakedoc (28 Jul 2009)

I think this is a well intentioned move.  However, I wonder since its only being issued to individuals dealing with the Muslim community regularly, will it be seen as the new standard resulting in other female officers without the standard issue head coverings then 'refused' entry to a mosque.

Also I wonder if all the other religious groups in other communities will also be asking that their particular practices be also followed...not that this would be a bad thing as long as it doesn't affect the officer's duties...but you can see where this gets tricky with so many groups.


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## Jarnhamar (28 Jul 2009)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I agree. As is wearing surgical "booties".



I remember having to put booties on to go into peoples houses and search. It usually gave them enough time to run out the back door with weapons into the woods where we weren't allowed to follow.

Seems like a fair idea. Where will it stop? Easy, it won't.


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## Yrys (28 Jul 2009)

The title made me jump !



			
				Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Seems like a fair idea. Where will it stop? Easy, it won't.



I think you're right. But I hope we'll be prove wrong.

It seems to me that it would be easier to have  also 
some at the mosque. Don't police officers have other 
things to think about that to have them at all time in 
the car  ?

Didn't saw anything about men or shoes... since I think 
you have to take out shoes, as sign of respect in mosques,
didn't they also thought to make "pantoufles" for them ?


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## Jarnhamar (28 Jul 2009)

What about only having female Muslim police officers entering said buildings. 

Or perhaps,  ban women police officers all together- to improve relations of course.


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Jul 2009)

Britian's PC pendulum has swung so far that nothing coming out of there suprises me anymore. One day, and it may be soon, they'll wake up and Britannia will be gone, a distant memory. Hard to believe that tiny island stood against the might of Europe.


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## Spanky (28 Jul 2009)

It seems similar to me to men donning a yarmulke when entering a Synagogue (although Synagogues usually supply them to their guests), or taking your hat off when entering a church, or your shoes off when entering other places of worship.  It's a show of respect for the customs of the people for whom that building is special.

Agreed, it is a similar concept and shouldn't be too onerous to implement, but what is the next step?  Will female officers have to start wearing them when dealing with muslims while on the street?  Then it would be too much of a hassle taking the hijab on and off, so just wear them all the time!


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## Kat Stevens (28 Jul 2009)

It's a sign of respect. You know, like moving to another country and not killing women and teen aged girls and dumping them in canals, because that's not their tradition.


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## OldSolduer (28 Jul 2009)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> It's a sign of respect. You know, like moving to another country and not killing women and teen aged girls and dumping them in canals, because that's not their tradition.


Bang on Kat!


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## Neill McKay (28 Jul 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> I remember having to put booties on to go into peoples houses and search. It usually gave them enough time to run out the back door with weapons into the woods where we weren't allowed to follow.
> 
> Seems like a fair idea. Where will it stop? Easy, it won't.



As others have suggested, I don't see this as being hugely different from police officers taking their hats off when entering a Christian church so I'm not especially bothered by it.  But in all cases I think common sense should prevail: when entering a mosque in a "tactical" situation -- chasing someone or whatever -- I hope the cops won't be expected by their leadership to pause at the door while they fiddle with their clothing.  And I suspect that they won't.


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## Fishbone Jones (28 Jul 2009)

If it were just covering up when attending a place of worship, I don't think anyone could argue. However, given Britian's propencity of late, to roll over whenever challenged by a special interest group, I fear this is but a first step.


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## the_girlfirend (28 Jul 2009)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> It's a sign of respect. You know, like moving to another country and not killing women and teen aged girls and dumping them in canals, because that's not their tradition.



 ;D ;D ;D

I understand that they need to improve their relationship with the muslim community... and if some women police officers are willing to do that... it is fine with me. But I would not want to put a religious symbol over my head, I am bogged with the fact that women only have to cover their head... and I am wondering what would happen to a woman police officer that refuses to wear it for personal reasons... (which I think is understandable) 
Now if it is an issued uniform... is it mandatory? or would she just be assigned to another task that does not require her to get into the actual building?


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## daftandbarmy (28 Jul 2009)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Britian's PC pendulum has swung so far that nothing coming out of there suprises me anymore. One day, and it may be soon, they'll wake up and Britannia will be gone, a distant memory. Hard to believe that tiny island stood against the might of Europe.



I have no idea what you mean by that. Then again... I'd better crank up the Trans-Atlantic piss taking machine

Gay soldier becomes Armed Forces' magazine's first homosexual pin-up 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1202651/Gay-soldier-Armed-Forces-magazines-homosexual-pin-up.html


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## 1feral1 (28 Jul 2009)

the_girlfirend said:
			
		

> I understand that they need to improve their relationship with the muslim community...



Perhaps the muslim community of England should try to improve their relationship with the English at large?

The Finsbury mosque comes to mind, and the recent anniversary of the bombings of July  2005  with at least 50 murdered. There seems to always be silence from thier own moderates these days.

Seems the political correct madness of late is going crazy still, yet France and Holland are considering banning the burqua, and on the news here, the UK was looking into it. Bnning not for religous reasons, but for women's rights.  

France: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25754922-663,00.html?from=public_rss

Holland: http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=20721&sec=36&con=45

Brisbane: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/death-threats-over-brisbane-djs-hijab-jibe/2009/01/17/1231608986827.html

And again: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24913953-952,00.html

After France announced their intentions there were death threats recieved world wide..

In Brisbane after a talk show radio program discussed removal of the burqua in banks, that host recieved death threats to himself and his family. How pathetic.

Regards,

OWDU


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## Antoine (28 Jul 2009)

France is a republic with a tradition of the nation above the individual interest (yes, it has been abused and abused by people in power serving their own interest first). 
However, the tendency to solve social problems goes from collective solutions to the individuals that need to deal with numerous compromises. Also France was requiring the colonies to adapt to French culture and not the otherway around. The way France deals with immigration isn't great, numerous ghetto, racism and so on (I am from France), of course it is more complex then what I am describing, I don't held any formal education in humanities, so it is still a thought in process for me.

However, my point is: as much as the English language is reverse to the French one, the same is for many things such as the way England was dealing with their colonies and how they do with immigration in our days. The multiculturalism is an Anglo-Saxon tradition, difficult to grasp for a French Republican. Some people are happy with it, and other from London aren't and multiculturalism leads also to the formation of gettho.

This is one of numerous reason why Quebec deals with immigration in a different way compare to the rest of Canada and why numerous Quebecois are not convinced about multiculturalism.

My  :2c:


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## Jarnhamar (28 Jul 2009)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Perhaps the muslim community of England should try to improve their relationship with the English at large?



I wondered this too.


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## 1feral1 (28 Jul 2009)

Antoine said:
			
		

> .....the rest of Canada and why numerous Quebecois are not convinced about multiculturalism.
> 
> My  :2c:



I am not from Quebec, but a Saskatoon lad, and I am not convinced that muliticulturalism works. 

In my opinion (say recently within the past 15 yrs), it has failed, having produced a (at times thankless citizens of convenience) nation of 'tribes' (many who have hated each other for 100s of years and bring this train of thought to their new home) with many of those rather agitated and/or angry when the federal government of their adopted country does not pander to their ways, religious ideals, thoughts or political views.

Death threats, and other bad behaviour from permanant residents or new citizens should be met with deportation. Yes, and as an immigrrant myself, I would have gladly signed a 10 year good behaviour bond or similar agreement if I did not meet the standards of being a good responsible citizen, that I would be deported. Maybe one day something like this will be adopted?

OWDU

Our country, love it or leave it.

OWDU


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## midget-boyd91 (28 Jul 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I personally don't see a problem with this.  They are only asked to wear it when on duty *and* entering a place of worship.  It is a sign of respect.  It could be an issue if it prevented them from doing something that may be required, such as donning a gas mask, for instance.
> 
> This is only a head covering, not a full face covering, yes?



How many people take off their hats, when entering a school, or their wedge, beret when going indoors? It is, like PMedMoe said, a sign of respect.
Putting on a hijab when entering a mosque is very similar.

My family, which has no connection to Indian culture was invited to a Hindu wedding a few years ago. As soon as we entered the building, we were told it was customary to wear a garb on our heads. Sure. We had no problem doing so. It was respectful.

As for having the Muslim or Hindu communities here make an effort to 'fit in' (for lack of a better phrase) I agree whole-heartedly. 
 But even that has it's limits. When they enter *our* countries, we should not be forced to bend over backwards to please *their* culture. *They* should make the effort.
But when we enter a mosque, even in our country, it is *thier* place of worship, and therefore *we *should make the effort to show respect. 

As has been said many times.. my 2 cents.

Oddball


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## mariomike (28 Jul 2009)

I could not have said it better myself, OWDU or Uncle midget. 
Every time, on business or pleasure,  I enter someone else's business establishment, place or worship, or home, I try to be a good guest. An example would be removing headdress in a Legion. It has nothing to do with race or  religion. It's just trying to be respectful.


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## George Wallace (28 Jul 2009)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I could not have said it better myself, OWDU or Uncle midget.
> Every time, on business or pleasure,  I enter someone else's business establishment, place or worship, or home, I try to be a good guest. An example would be removing headdress in a Legion. It has nothing to do with race or  religion. It's just trying to be respectful.



For you, yes.  For others, no.  You may remember the controversy raised by Sikhs in the Legion, and the again of an officer at RMC who refused to remove his beret for the Lords Prayer at a Remembrance Ceremony.  There are some who use their beliefs, religious or other, to not pay what others may call "respect".  This is far from Black and White.


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## mariomike (28 Jul 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You may remember the controversy raised by Sikhs in the Legion,



I do. Prior to that, I heard reports ( did not see with my own eyes ) of members wearing Stetson hats during Grey Cup games! I'm a card carrying member of Branch 46, although like church, I do not attend often enough. I did however ask a WW2 vet - a British Army type - one time how he felt about it. He had served with Gurkhas, and I think Sikhs too. He basically said, as far as he was concerned, "They can wear whatever the f#$^ they like." ha

[/quote]  
and the again of an officer at RMC who refused to remove his beret for the Lords Prayer at a Remembrance Ceremony. 
[/quote]

No, I did not hear of that. I'm very disappointed. 
Respect for others can save your life. We see the lack of it reported every day on the news in "road rage" collisions. I avoid calling them accidents.


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## midget-boyd91 (28 Jul 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> For you, yes.  For others, no.  You may remember the controversy raised by Sikhs in the Legion, and the again of an officer at RMC who refused to remove his beret for the Lords Prayer at a Remembrance Ceremony.  There are some who use their beliefs, religious or other, to not pay what others may call "respect".  This is far from Black and White.



The Sikhs wearing a turban in a public, or even government building, I don't see as a sign of disrespect. If it is a symbol of your faith or culture to wear something, then power to ya'.
They aren't pushing anything on us by wearing a turban or hijab.

As for the RMC officer refusing to remove their beret during the Lord's prayer... some people just try their damnest to push a line.

Oddball


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## George Wallace (28 Jul 2009)

uncle-midget-Oddball said:
			
		

> The Sikhs wearing a turban in a public, or even government building, I don't see as a sign of disrespect. If it is a symbol of your faith or culture to wear something, then power to ya'.
> They aren't pushing anything on us by wearing a turban or hijab.
> 
> As for the RMC officer refusing to remove their beret during the Lord's prayer... some people just try their damnest to push a line.
> ...



Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to raise a furour over the turban, but was pointing out that it did raise quite a controversy in Legions across the country at the time.  The RMC officer is but another example, but more along the lines of an asshat out to raise shit.  We do have both controversies, some legitimate and others not so.  Time usually settles the legitimate cases, not so the illegitimate.


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## mariomike (28 Jul 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> I remember having to put booties on to go into peoples houses and search. It usually gave them enough time to run out the back door with weapons into the woods where we weren't allowed to follow.



If you are forcibly entering a dwelling in the pursuit of fellons, I say piss on 'em, and anyone harbouring them. Forget the booties.


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## gaspasser (29 Jul 2009)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I have no idea what you mean by that. Then again... I'd better crank up the Trans-Atlantic piss taking machine
> 
> Gay soldier becomes Armed Forces' magazine's first homosexual pin-up
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1202651/Gay-soldier-Armed-Forces-magazines-homosexual-pin-up.html




I don't see what the problem is there??  He's a very smart looking lad, the look of stern concentration of his face would make him a credible foe, n'est pas??  Then again, I don't have a real problem with homosexuals in the military.
Back on thread.  What's next in Britain, God Save The Queen in Hindi??  


...       :stars:  op:
I heard this morning on AM radio (yeah, that's all the bus had) here in Belleville, the subject was about on line racism and how racist (albeit some are cute, funny and an eye opener) emails can insight anger and hatred.  One of the points of conversation was O'Canada being sung in Hindi to appease the East Indian population of this country.  Some of the remarks were interesting, but the one that I pinged on was; IF we do that, then the National Anthem should be written and sung in Inuit (pardon me if I have the name of the language wrong) I mean, they are the original inhabitants of this land, not the white man or any other immigrant to this country.
IF the Muslims in this case want the police to RESPECT thier ways and laws, then perhaps they should RESPECT our way of life in this country. When I go to a Muslim country, I am EXPECTED and trained to respect their ways and not to push my ways on them.  If you go to France, do you order Timmies' ???



this is solely my personal opinion and is not racist in any way.  rant off. sorry  :2c:


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Jul 2009)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> If you go to France, do you order Timmies' ???



No, that would be a Timothy's avec fromage et sauce brune


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## the_girlfirend (29 Jul 2009)

recceguy said:
			
		

> No, that would be a Timothy's avec fromage et sauce brune



  ;D C'est quoi ça???


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## Antoine (29 Jul 2009)

Not exactly,

In France you'll get donuts with any kind of cheese.

Then you cross the Atlantic ocean, you land in Quebec, and you can add the famous "sauce brune".


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Jul 2009)

the_girlfirend said:
			
		

> ;D C'est quoi ça???



I thought it would be Timmies with cheese and gravy. 

I don't have a schmik how to parle francais


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