# Ex Charging Bison (Winnipeg)



## Fraser.g (24 Jan 2006)

One of my MCpl Just sent me the following link. Once again the "social Conscience" of Canada is calling for active resistance to the ex.

Please See below and full text at:

http://stopthebison.friendsofgrassynarrows.com/

What are we calling for?

We are calling for a broad range of actions to counter this training, from high-school walk-outs, to street theatre, to teach-ins, to direct action, to a national convergence, to solidarity actions. We encourage people to take the initiative to plan their own autonomous actions, but we're also eager to see co-operation between organizing groups.

We are planning a major day of action on May 1st, International Workers' Day

Why are we opposing this? Or, "But Canadian missions are only for peacekeeping. What's the problem?"

The problem is that Canada's peacekeeping reputation is already in tatters around the world. We don't need to look that hard to see why. Here are the kinds of operations the military is training for. 


A Canadian soldier stands guard at the Toussaint Louverture Airport in Port-au-Prince.In Haiti, Canadian soldiers and RCMP are currently giving logistical assistance to the brutal Haitian National Police and participating in MINUSTAH, an international force which has been carrying out massacres in urban slums. All this to "stabilize" a government Canada helped put into place.

Two years ago, Canadian troops helped carry out a coup of Haiti's elected leader and oversee the installation of a government of business elites and sweatshop owners. The year before that, at the Ottawa Initiative on Haiti, Pierre Pettigrew and other members of the Canadian government decided alongside France, the U.S., and Latin American countries that the Haitian government must be overthrown.

For more on occupied Haiti visit this national information site or the local Winnipeg-CHAN site.



In Quebec City in 2001, 1000 soldiers were deployed against protestors of the Summit of the Americas, to stifle dissent against the governments' push for corporate control of the hemisphere.



In Ts'peten, also known as Gustafsen Lake, British Columbia, in 1995, native demonstrators trying to protect their land from further encroachment were met with armoured peronnel carriers, .50 calibre machine guns, and land mines. The federal and provincial governments rejected any involvement by an impartial, independent, international adjudication process to settle the conflict, and even the presence of neutral peacekeepers, with the famous declaration "There shall be no alien intervention into the affairs of this state."



In Afghanistan, top Canadian soldier Rick Hillier clarified the Canadian military's role, "We're not the public sevice of Canada. We're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces and our job is to be able to kill people."

Canadian forces joined the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. The military occupation continues today. 



In Kanehsatake in 1990, Canadian forces attempted to put down Mohawk resistance to the town of Oka's attempted expansion of a golf course on to territory including a Mohawk burial ground.



In Iraq, we find Canadian troops again, despite the government's official position that they're staying out of the invasion. One Canadian Major General has thousands of U.S. troops under his command.


This is not a history of peacekeeping and good will, and the training operations in Winnipeg are an attempt to hone the Canadian military's tactics of repression.


Come to Winnipeg!

We are calling on people from across Canada to come oppose this operation and its consequences for people around the country and around the world. Come put on workshops, plan actions, act as medics, observers, anything your heart desires. We will do our best to find couches to sleep on and to put together bicycles to be lent out. More info about that as it develops.

There are already folks tentatively coming from Toronto and Ottawa.


I am too pissed off right now to have a cohearant responce to this.

GF


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## Fraser.g (24 Jan 2006)

Found more stuff

http://stopthebison.friendsofgrassynarrows.com/

http://ghostchild.com/newbb+viewtopic.topic_id+335+forum+5.htm

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/331801.html

http://winnipeg.canadahaitiaction.ca/pipermail/chan_winnipeg.canadahaitiaction.ca/2006-January/000035.html

http://www.ndp.ca/page/2969

http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/

GF


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## Conquistador (24 Jan 2006)

I guess that they forgot that:

In *Quebec City* protestors were destroying property, attacking police, and trying to get over the fence and into the red zone.

In *Haiti* troops deployed to put an end to the military rule that had taken thousands of innocent lives.

At *Gustafsen Lake*, it was mostly a police operation, according to Wikipedia.

At *Kanehsatake*, the native warriors were armed, and ended up killing a police officer.

I'm not even gonna explain Afganistan, our boys have done good.

How can these nutjobs think like this? I just don't get it.


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## GK .Dundas (24 Jan 2006)

I was amused by one refrence to A Lt.Cpl so and so commander of the Fort Garry Horse. What a collection of whack jobs! :dontpanic: ;D


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## Spartan (25 Jan 2006)

That's amusing, I just went through these sites earlier today before this was posted -
But wrt the ex - I think these protestors need to be accounted for in the planning stages - less it become very realistic training - though that could be very beneficial. 
Saying the hemispheric conference is in Winnipeg near that time as well.... Lots of imported (and local) protest movements available....
And saying this ex is partaking in Downtown Winnipeg - could be very interesting to say the least....
Overall, these groups are right out of 'er. I did take a look at their arguements and - wow- are the blinders on tight. It's one thing to be anti something - while still accepting a broad view or understanding from both perspectives (if only just a glimmer of understanding/hearing the other side) and having only one outlook versus having one set agenda- and their "reasons" without context is absurd (and fails critical thinking arguement lessons learned in their schooling).


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## George Wallace (25 Jan 2006)

Has anyone thought that this may be part of the scenario?  Perhaps it is part of the Exercise: 





> About 100 police officers and civilians will be given a role in the
> exercise, either as opposing forces or relief organizations.
> 
> The military may also recruit drama students from the University of
> ...


 Winnipeg Free Press http://stopthebison.friendsofgrassynarrows.com/fp.html


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## Bobbyoreo (25 Jan 2006)

Ahhh ,

Dont understand how these people come up with this stuff on their own??? We are gold when we help sandbag or give you a blanket, but when its time to do our REAL JOB....they cry about it. Sad...but I guess you need both types of people in the world to get balance!!!


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## Blakey (25 Jan 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Has anyone thought that this may be part of the scenario?  Perhaps it is part of the Exercise:  Winnipeg Free Press http://stopthebison.friendsofgrassynarrows.com/fp.html


Something tells me they're not "participants".

http://www.friendsofgrassynarrows.com/
Edited for grammer.


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## George Wallace (25 Jan 2006)

Blakey said:
			
		

> Something tells me they're not "participants".
> 
> http://www.friendsofgrassynarrows.com/



Thinking outside of the box.   ;D



> The military may also recruit drama students from the University of
> Manitoba to play the roles of demonstrators or insurgents.



(Faulty 'Generalization' time.)  Who make up many of these fringe groups?  A WNG O to the Drama Dept and perhaps a Political Science Dept, and a wacko can have a heads up and start the wheels into motion.  OPFOR and Wackos from the same sandbox.


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## Blakey (25 Jan 2006)

mox nix to me George, I say let them come, in droves. That way it'll give the local authorities a reason practice there crowd control and, if need be call in the military (after all the appropriate phone calls and paperwork has been filled out of course  ;D)


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## Lost_Warrior (25 Jan 2006)

Oh boy...this will only enforce the "Soldiers in our streets" ad the Liberals tried to use against Harper...  

Don't be suprised if come next election, the Liberals use this and say "see!  I told you so"


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## MED_BCMC (25 Jan 2006)

RN PRN said:
			
		

> Come to Winnipeg!
> 
> We are calling on people from across Canada to come oppose this operation and its consequences for people around the country and around the world. Come put on workshops, plan actions, act as medics, observers, anything your heart desires. We will do our best to find couches to sleep on and to put together bicycles to be lent out. More info about that as it develops.



Medics, eh? That's all we need, a NO DUFF cas that we cant help because there's too many civilian "medics" in the way...  :


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## karl28 (25 Jan 2006)

Man oh man where do we get these nut jobs protesters ? I live in Trenton Ont they had a similar exercise not on that scale but it was a neat experience seeing the troops in the city. I don't think  any one was upset that they where there. I think some people just need to chill out . Just my two cents worth


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## FGH_Recce_DJ (25 Jan 2006)

Man they need to go hug a tree, eat some granola, save a whale, and write some haiku in a Starbucks, or better yet how about they just get a life, what some people won't do just to protest......it should be interesting to say the least!!!


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## Phillman (25 Jan 2006)

After seeing these sites, I think I am more looking forward to it than I was before. It will be nice to see all these people exercise there right to free speech while we are training to protect that right.


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## Fraser.g (25 Jan 2006)

If they actually show up and demonstrate they will be doing the CF a favor. Heck, we will save cash and food for all the Drama Students that we were going to use for an op for.
Last I was aware disturbance of the peace was an offence.
Come out and train with 38 CBG at Ex Charge A Hippie!


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## Jaxson (25 Jan 2006)

Around the world, the maple-leaf flown by the CAF has come to represent murder, torture and oppression to those unlucky enough to see it flying


Got that off one the comments someone left, i wonder how smart this person truly is.


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## Fraser.g (25 Jan 2006)

These creatures may be doing the CF a favor by showing up. Think of the cash we will save by not having to feed all the "drama students" to play op for. Heck we will have a no-duff op for.
Last time I herd, causing a public nuisance was an offence. Not to mention the stuff they will undoubtedly be smokin.

Come one come all to Ex Charge a Hippie

Damn, I thought the last post of mine was lost when my PC locked up
Oh well

GF


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## Fraser.g (25 Jan 2006)

OK,

I'm starting to have some fun with this one.

http://g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/archives/operation-charging-bison/#comments

GF


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## career_radio-checker (25 Jan 2006)

ohh--ohh--ohh *raises hand* can I come?! Can I come?!
they always need sigops and I can make a mean cup o' coffee in the CP.


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## Armymatters (25 Jan 2006)

My view of these protestors: 
:brickwall:

I think that explains everything.

And to everyone going to this exercise: I wish you the best of luck, especially in the Winterpeg weather... right now it is -13C, and it is blowing winds, up to 50km/h.


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## career_radio-checker (26 Jan 2006)

found another blog 

[link to site...removed at authors request.]

God I love stirring the pot  >


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## Fraser.g (27 Jan 2006)

OMFG

The naivety of these people never ceases to amaze me. To thing that they are so adamant that the CF is bolstering up illegal governments and is hated where ever the flag flies?????

WTF (shakes down turned head)

I am glad that the boys are stirring the pot on a number of their bloggs though. 

GF


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## Bobbyoreo (27 Jan 2006)

Loved that last site....lol..almost had me in tears...ohh god. How do these people deal with life. I know close the door and lock it!!! Sad so very sad.  :'(


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## Recce_FGH_CRB (27 Jan 2006)

Well all the talk about this ex CB06 the article was quit funny and i concur with most pepole the civys love us when we are helping the ie: the flood, BC fires, ice storms but when we want to train for real operation they freek. I think the EX will be a great opportunity for all involved it should be interesting as long as higher has it all worked out but if not it has the potential to be a big jug f**k as we are all use to so we will see. I hope that it all works well and hey who knows  the cops can have us help with some of the problems ah thats a pipe dream.


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## BernDawg (28 Jan 2006)

I find it incredibly ironic that they call for protesters and they will get a couple dozen from the local neighbourhood (the rest are too lazy to put down their joint and take the bus across town).  Yet the action they are protesting will involve a hundreds of volunteer soldiers.  I think that really sums up the national opinion of our operations and abilities.


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## Praetorian (28 Jan 2006)

Excellent
Notice when they are challenged by someone with the signs of cranium activity they revert to; "theyre preparing capture our cities."
some of the posts were genuinely hilarious,  "This is the beginning of a military takeover"
I am absolutely not joking one guy said that, he then referred to several articles all written in leftist websites.

I commented on the one site twice (different names to bolster pro-military numbers) one post was countering all their points, the other was just that quote by mills, the one that says war is not the worst, but the state of a person whom thinks nothing is worth fight for etc.
I encourage posts in order to knock the peaceniks off their perches as protectors of all things good.

 :cheers:


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## George Wallace (29 Jan 2006)

Praetorian, and company

Welcome to Army.ca

Perhaps you would like to parouse our: 


Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

You will find that we do not condon the Spaming of other sites from this one, no matter how funny you may think it is.

If you are condoning members of this site to become linked to other sites for this purpose, you will progress through our Warning System very quickly.  End result:  You could get Banned.

George
Staff


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## Praetorian (29 Jan 2006)

Very Sorry
Had no intention of spamming other sites nor condonning such an action
I merely attempted to point to them as examples of poorly informed persons
The website I was referring to has now stopped the blog because there was too many counter points

once again very sorry :'(


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## Sailing Instructor (29 Jan 2006)

If we get frustrated with these peace activists, we must think that they _can_ think another way, i.e. that we could argue with them and eventually prove them wrong.  (Otherwise we wouldn't get frustrated and would just ignore them, like I don't care what my cat thinks about the military.)  

That said, we must try to empathise (as best we can, though I do not believe 100% empathy is at all possible) with them and attempt to find the best parts of their argument.  Sure its superficially clever to poke fun at those peace activists who are too busy smoking weed to come to 'their own' protests, but, this attack on the weakest proponents of peace is simply knocking down a straw-man.  In the words of Antonio Gramsci, it is akin to 'a man who cannot sleep because of the moonlight and who exerts himself to kill as many fireflies as he can, convinced that the light will wane or dissapear.'

Surely we can agree that, even if there is no good argument for peace activism, there is a large and vocal part of Canadians who have some affinity to it.  To shut them out as irrational (without much reflexion) is to wall oneself off from free speech and perhaps further the military/civilian divide.

To say the protests that turn violent are caused by hatred is to use _exactly_ the same theory that peace activists use against the military.  They see combat: they see disorder, they see murder.  To any military person, there is order in battle and while it might cause hatred (in specific instances), to say the reverse is confusing effects for causes.  I doubt many generals write their orders on the wrong end of a range, just as I doubt many of the protest planners hold meetings in gas chambers.  

Also, some of the persons protesting are the Communist party, which is distinctly anti-militarist and has been for its entire existence.  If anyone's position is well-thought-out, theirs is.

PS.  I know Gramsci, whom I quoted, was a communist but the straw-man fallacy is a common notion in argumentation & his wording was the most elegant knock against it.


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## proudrifle (16 Mar 2006)

just wondering anyone going on this ex...
its gonna be pretty hardcore from what our sgts are saying


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## sdimock (17 Mar 2006)

I'm hoping to go as opfor.  >


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## proudrifle (17 Mar 2006)

nice  well look out for the regina rifles


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## Strike (25 Mar 2006)

This has got to be the most entertaining reading I have seen on the net in quite some time.

I decided to Google the name of the Ex the other night.  I couldn't stop laughing.  There are some absurd people out there.


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## FlightSergeantRose (14 Apr 2006)

I was just looking for some info on the huge Brigade ex thats comming up in Winnipeg, Charging Bison that I will be participating in. The first link I found was this,  http://stopthebison.friendsofgrassynarrows.com/

Take a look at it and let these idiots know what you think of them and their cause. I just can't believe some of these people. They see the CF as a threat to the citizenry. Its sad.


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## a_majoor (14 Apr 2006)

These people must have been foaming at the mouth when Mr Dithers released that "Soldiers....with guns, in our cities" ad.

At least you will have no trouble spotting their "jiffy pop" hats on the streets of Winnipeg.  ;D ;D ;D


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## aesop081 (14 Apr 2006)

Another bunch of uneducated winners..........

I love this country  :'(


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## Phillman (14 Apr 2006)

As I said in another thread about Charging Bison, I think I will get that warm fuzzy feeling inside me watching people exercise the rights that I have sworn to protect.


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## vonGarvin (14 Apr 2006)

Love that site:
"1000 soldiers" used in Quebec City during the protests or whatever it was.
"Canadian soldiers are peacekeepers only" routine.

They are using the commie "holy day" of 1 May as a rally day.  
My fave, though, the use of "land mines" in Gustafsen Lake!!!!!


You're right, A_Majoor, the jiffy pop hats must be BLINDING in the sunlight 

 :warstory:
Here's my helmet


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## cbt arms sub tech (14 Apr 2006)

Any thoughts on if the army will send troops from the Exercise to help with flood relief with the red river rising?


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## jasper (14 Apr 2006)

I wonder who these people would call if their world fell apart. Terrorists, or the like entered their neighbourhoods, and started imposing their will uncontested. The RCMP, The Canadian Forces, or would they just stand on their soap box, eat crap, say they like it, and ask for more. I quite like Hilliers quote "We are The Canadian Forces, and Our job is to be able to kill people.". Raw, but true without question. If you don't like it, that's okay. As was said before, Soldiers have given these people the right to stand on their soap box, as well I have the right to tell them to go piss up a rope............


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## MED_BCMC (14 Apr 2006)

There were supposed to be hired protestors for this exercise anyways. The way I see it, these groups will just add some realism to it all. 

Come on out and protest. It will not stop me from doing my job.

BCM


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## FlightSergeantRose (23 Apr 2006)

Has anyone emailed these people? I have been emailing them back and forth. They are so entrench in their thinking its just incredible. The fact that at least two of these people have gone to university amazes me. I asked the one guy what program he was in or if he even graduated and he didnt respond to that. Their information gives no citation at all and theres a million other things I brought up about their site which gives incorrect or unsourced info. Completely unprofessional. Just pisses me off.


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## Gramps (24 Apr 2006)

Friday May 5th is soldier outreach day according to their schedule of events. Now I wish I could be there for that, I am sure it will be entertaining to say the least. I have had a few friends who believe all of the misinformation on their web page and as Piper said, they don't make me so angry anymore either. Instead of anger I look at them as a cheap form of entertainment. I was in a bar back home one night and was told that I am a killer and an instrument of Western "New World Order" blah blah blah. Eventually the bartender had  enough of her crap and informed her that it was time to leave. Now the bar I was in is full of people who are anti military but little do they know, the owner of that bar (I used to work for him many years ago) is a former Lebanese soldier who has been there done that (if you get my meaning) in his tank. I guess I don't really have a point to my post but though I would add that anyway. Cheers.


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## Bobbyoreo (24 Apr 2006)

Ill keep you all informed on what happens over the next two weeks with these people..as I've been tasked out to the ex!!!


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## wdewitt (24 Apr 2006)

They have there own set agenda and they think our soldiers are the enemy. :crybaby:  >


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## Recon_Guardsman (24 Apr 2006)

I must admit that I got quite pissed when I saw that website. We go through so much crap for them, and this is what we get in return. Sometimes, I catch myself hoping something will happen, just so they can get it through their heads that they need us to be doing our job.


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## kumbaya1980 (25 Apr 2006)

I agree with the protesters.  Winnipeggers won't like having a bunch of soldiers in the city (in our downtown no less) in the same way we wouldn't want tonnes of police officers marching through our neighbourhood. 

[Mod edit - save your hatemongering for elsewhere. Welcome to the warning system]

These exercises don't belong in cities. Go do it in the bush where these exercises belong.


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## Thompson_JM (25 Apr 2006)

kumbaya1980 said:
			
		

> I agree with the protesters.  Winnipeggers won't like having a bunch of soldiers in the city (in our downtown no less) in the same way we wouldn't want tonnes of police officers marching through our neighbourhood. If you guys want to march around with weapons training for the holy war (a war you're creating rather than thwarting), don't do it in a civilian area.  I can just picture all you all prancing around with your guns with massive hardons waiting for the public to suck your collective dicks.
> 
> These exercises don't belong in cities. Go do it in the bush where these exercises belong.



Well I'm sorry that you feel that way sir or ma'am, however if you wish to complain about it we ask that you do so in a slightly more constructive manner. reference your second to last line which sounds as if you are simply attempting to provoke us.

And with all due respect, these exercises DO belong in cities. In order for us to train more effectively to deal with the situations overseas, it is imperative that we train in real world scenarios. the 'clean' environments that the military training areas on base provide, do not give us a realistic idea of what to expect when deployed. Also on a personal note I feel that Canadians have a right to see their military in action up close, so they can see where their taxpaying dollars are going. Rather then Squirrel us away from the populous like some sort of dark dirty secret.

Regards
- josh

*Edit* I noticed the poster Above has edited their original post. 
My Response: 

Once again, its not an issue of showing off, its an issue of being able to train realistically. Though I have a feeling that no matter what I say, you are not going to be receptive to it, and would rather believe what you want to believe. That is your right in this country. Four Soldiers Died in Afghanistan on Saturday to once again Protect your right to say what you want... Regardless of how Tactless or Ignorant it may sound..


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## Teddy Ruxpin (25 Apr 2006)

kumbaya1980 said:
			
		

> You all must get massive hardons thinking of what it will be like to pretend to blow crap up and kill people in the middle of a city where the onlooking public will ooh and ahh.



Very bad timing to post a very provocative and offensive message on this site.  Go away before the dog pile begins...and I'll be leading the charge.


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## Fiji (25 Apr 2006)

General comment on the ex.

As a student reservist at the University of Toronto, it is sickening to hear the comments that Torontonians make towards the armed forces. It is very distressing that students, and more importantly professors at “Canada’s top academic institution” make such ignorant and unjust comments towards Canada’s involvement in Afghanistan, and abroad. 

It is often very difficult for a person in my place to express my views without being disregarded as a war mongering jar head. Given the fact that I live in a highly leftist neighbourhood where Olivia Chow (Jack Laytons wife) is my local MP, who can barely carry out a conversation in the English language( who I have personally spoken to). To just trying to personify the likelihood of the army trying to conduct an exercises in my area. In Winnipeg, you don’t have it to bad. It is very enlightening to see that the administration of the city of Winnipeg would even allow such a excellent opportunity. On the UofT campus in early March, there was a convention held to highlight Canada’s war making ability, and how we “overthrow democratically elected governments” along with other hippie propaganda BS that made my stomach turn. This event organized by the Haitian student association was completely biased, and many of their arguments had no substance whatsoever!

	Although looking past the misinformed, biased and insensitive people, there are Torontonians, and more importantly Canadians as a whole that strongly support the armed forces. People that understand our history, culture and sacrifices that Canadians made so we can live our lives free, and in peace. Just because certain groups of people speak up the loudest, does not mean it represents the silent majority. For all the men and women overseas, a strong minority of people in Toronto do support you. This is why when I put my uniform on, and haul my kit onto the subway to travel up to my armoury, I walk with the outmost pride and confidence. Daring  those people to give me a sour look. Not because I’m some kind of weekend warrior hotshot, but for the people that are dedicating their lives to the Army, and are overseas serving. A strong Pat on the back for the Winnipeg just went up greatly. The boys from our regiment are envious that you will be able to conduct and ex in your city, and demonstrate the professionalism of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Just my two cents, maybe a bit more.


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## Bobbyoreo (25 Apr 2006)

"I agree with the protesters.  Winnipeggers won't like having a bunch of soldiers in the city (in our downtown no less) in the same way we wouldn't want tonnes of police officers marching through our neighbourhood. If you guys want to march around with weapons training for the holy war (a war you're creating rather than thwarting), don't do it in a civilian area.  I can just picture all you all prancing around with your guns with massive hardons waiting for the public to suck your collective dicks.

These exercises don't belong in cities. Go do it in the bush where these exercises belong."



I was really thought you were going somewhere then you have to go and say something that totally disregards your whole post. Sad really.

If you get the right to protest on OUR streets, why is not our place to train on OUR streets? I dint understand why YOU people seem to fear YOUR troops?? You would rather see armed gangs then armed soldiers....sad ..really sad.

Anyways just so you know the only problems that should arise from this ex is from you protesters not from the forces. If you could just sit back and watch for 10-20 mins you'd see that this is just for training nothing more and if you want to learn more then about what you "think" (strong word) is going on..stop a troop and ask...he would explain the full purpose of this ex...but if you want to choose the other road, only you and your protesting friends well look like the bad guys.

 :warstory:


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## el_wiersema (26 Apr 2006)

The Guns! The Guns! Thank God The Guns! 

Yall better watch out for the guns.


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## el_wiersema (27 Apr 2006)

I'm totally pumped for this ex. Never been on the guns in an urban environment befor, other then the armoury parking lot. It will be a huge learning experiance for the soldiers who will be joining us in the streets of the peg. I just wish the Arty had blank rounds to make it more real. And to scare the crap outta those protesters. All i know is that if a hippie trys to get on me, i'm gonna kick him in the head.


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## 2ltkap (27 Apr 2006)

I for one am looking very much forward to a week of excellent training in Winnipeg. I have worked in a Sim crowd control scenario on Active Edge/04 (I think)and even under those rigidly controlled conditions got a taste of the reality of it. I look forward several years later to applying what I have learned to realistic training and here we have the opportunity. I am bloody well good to go!!!!

Now a note for the people who call us criminals and babykillers etc. 
1. *Nobody protested our presence in Kelowna*, Nobody resented us or traveled across the country to dump on us there. 
2. I chose to serve my country. I am spending a week of my holiday time in Winnipeg training, I am spending another month in Gagetown training. Because I *chose* to do so. My holiday time is spent working, because *I want to*. 
3. My Military experience is a family one, My wife and my son *accept and support* me in my involvement even though it means time away from them. They adjust their lives to support me and my work with the Forces. 

I know I am not unique, there are many many soldiers I know with this same level of personal commitment. 

Can those who purport to hate us have this same level of devotion to their task. If they cherish their belief that we are wrong Then I say good for them, enjoy the freedoms hard fought and won some 60 years past. If this is mearly and excuse to generally stir the pot and crap on soldiers doing their job I say shame on them. 

-----And el_wiersema if you kick someone in the head you will be charged to the fullest extent of Military Justice, It's not worth getting in trouble for some hair headed goof who would like nothing better than to see you get arrested because he is acting like an asshole. Think always, Always think-------


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## George Wallace (27 Apr 2006)

el_wiersema said:
			
		

> I'm totally pumped for this ex. Never been on the guns in an urban environment befor, other then the armoury parking lot. ....... I just wish the Arty had blank rounds to make it more real.



Now, don't be surprised if you don't bring your toys with you and instead land up acting as Infantry.  That is the more realistic scenario.  You will have blank rounds, but they won't be 105.  More like 5.56.   ;D


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## GAP (27 Apr 2006)

Being in Winnipeg, I think a little realism is necessary. If you are going to have a simulation, you need simulated protesters (read enemy), and how to control them. (just bring lots of baby wipes & pampers). It is only proper that if they are going to protest what an armed force can do, then they find out what kind of response would be applied if they were, in fact, an armed insurrection. You need to gather up the detainees, house them in a compound, and interrogate them. Great practise for the troops, a little reality for the protesters. :crybaby: ;D


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## Bobbyoreo (27 Apr 2006)

I think you'll realise 3/4 of these people are misinformed. If you have nothing to do with this Ex and live in Wpg ..more then likely..unless you go looking for us...then you wont even know we were there. Its funny I read in the Wpg Sun this morning that Immigrants might be scared and run for cover. Please.. Its really really sad. We are Canadian troops training in Canada for missions Canada might send us on...why should we have to be put on a base and hiddin away??


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## Grimmy (27 Apr 2006)

Yeah Wiersema , The guns do kick ass. But in my experience with 38 Bgd exs, the planners have an uncanny knack of giving all the cool stuff to the infantry and then F***ing over the gunners. Happen in 04 when they made us enemy force in Kenora, worst bloody ex of my life.  Then again the 4 feet of wet slush that fell overnight wasn't to nice either.

Anyways, I'm not saying that this ex will suck, but they took away our live fire trip, they are making us fire filthy blanks all week and we are going to be gate guards at the red river camp.

CYA Sat


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## el_wiersema (28 Apr 2006)

At least we'll be getting blanks. Befor it was just gonna be dry missions, and you know how much bag those suck.


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## el_wiersema (28 Apr 2006)

"And el_wiersema if you kick someone in the head you will be charged to the fullest extent of Military Justice, It's not worth getting in trouble for some hair headed goof who would like nothing better than to see you get arrested because he is acting like an *******. Think always, Always think"

I'm not going to literally kick someone in the head, it wouldn't be practical by any means. When's the last time you saw a protester get a swift round house our axe kick to the head? It's just not practical, but it would be amusing to watch on the evening news.


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## Spoonfed (28 Apr 2006)

This is going to be mostly college art students methinks.  I know (what I consider) a decent number of other 'Peggers, and they are more or less apathetic to the whole situation, as long as it doesn't affect traffic.

Personally, I'll be there to shake hands & buy beer for the guys that make a personal sacrifice like joining up.

Also, I'm a big fan of GAPs plan.  If they want to act like protestors in a warzone, treatment should match.


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## Grimmy (28 Apr 2006)

el_wiersema said:
			
		

> Wiersema, if you are going to do something stupid:
> A) Don't Do It when there is a Camera around(Ref: Rodney King); and
> B) Don't Do It When I am Around(Cause then I get S**t on as GPO);
> 
> Like it is said before, I don't like having to put up with whiny and disrespectful protesters either, but is it really worth spending a couple months in Club Ed?????


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## Bobbyoreo (28 Apr 2006)

Its really not worth doing anything to them. Anything you do will be turned around to make you look bad and them look great. So your better off to just ignore them and do your training....its not worth what follows!!!


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## Strike (7 May 2006)

So, the Ex is over.  Any thoughts?

All I have to say is the papers and the tv media did an awesome job of covering the event.  They certainly seemed very pro-military to me.  Of course, have the media embedded in with the camps probably had alot to do with it.


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## MapleLeaf4Evr (7 May 2006)

Awesome exercise!  All I can say is that we couldn't have done it without Dan Vandal.

http://army.ca/cgi-bin/album.pl?photo=Humour/Dan_Vandal.jpg


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## Rfn (7 May 2006)

Here's my impressions;

1)  The exercise was generally excellent

2)  It was exactly the training we need, given the possibility of 38 CBG pers being sent on TF08

3)  The training was very realistic, with well-planned scenarios that challenged section commanders in the infantry and armoured recce platoons/troops. They really had to think on their feet to respond to sniper, IED, human interaction situations, etc. The Comd of the US scout platoon that attended the training said that even though his platoon had done training at all the high-speed training facilities in the US, Winnipeg was the best training environment they had been to. (incidentally, he had suffered a tragic family matter and had to be replaced mid exercise. Hope the Bde sends condolences.)

4)  The ROEs had to be made more clear. For instance, a patrol of the Peoples Liberation Army was gunned down by the ISM in a drive-by shooting, within sight of one of our patrols. So, shoot or don't shoot? Was the PLA (the Militia that supported the new govt) considered an allied force that had to be supported by our guys? Or should the incident be considered to be a clash between two neutral belligerent factions, that the Task Force patrol should have just observed and stayed clear? The patrol commander opted to open fire, and then rendered 1st aid (good call) The local civvies, taking pictures on their porches and lawns were caught in the crossfire (not so good) but the locals didn't seem to mind at all!

5)  A Coy was located in Pioneer Arena on Logan ave, a dirt-poor area of the city. The locals were very supportive for the most part, more so than in Ste Boniface I'm told. Does anyone remember the "Golden Cowboy?"

6)  The American Platoon from 34 Inf Div, Minnesota National Guard was awesome, it was attached to A Coy. Several of them were Iraq veterans, and most of the platoon is going over again within a year. Very motivated, positive, fit and well-led, who had a lot of real time current operational knowledge to pass on to our guys. Had their stuff down-pat. I heard the 34 ID wanted to send an entire coy...

Most initial infantry patrols consisted of a dismounted section of Canadians, supported by a US HUMV in an overwatch role. They worked really well together.

One of the US section Comds told me they thought they were being shot at in every streetcorner downtown, because they were hearing the "beep-beep, beep-beep" that usually meant their MILES gear was signalling a near miss. They figured out later it was the audio signal the crossing lights in Winnipeg give to tell the visually impaired it was safe to cross... 


7)  The police & city were very supportive.

8)  The "protesters" were pretty disappointing. I was looking forward to hooded firebomb throwing anarchists, but at A Coy there were only less than a dozen pathetic emaciated freaks that listlessly chalked "no blood for oil" messages on the street and stuck little bouquets of flowers into the chain-link fence, and left after a while.

9)  Two bad parts: there was not enough food prep assets, and worst of all, the end ex smoker was cancelled ! :crybaby:

38 CBG hit a *home run * with this ex. this has got to happen again next year, with post ex points taken into consideration and hopefully the days of dumping 2-300 troops off in Shiloh to conduct section attacks and dig holes are done. I'll write more as I remember...


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## FlightSergeantRose (8 May 2006)

This is a bit of a rant.

Generally, CB was better than other ex's, but it still had some major flaws. I was in Red River for the whole thing and I was in the advance party. Red River got screwed over as far as actually participating in the story of the exercise. The enemy only attacked a few times and it was always at the front gate. Only once did they try to sneak in the camp from the side and my Sgt. just happened to be in the right place at the right time and unloaded his 1 mag for the entire ex on them, other than that it was very boring for me. I didnt see any enemy at all the entire ex or fire my weapon. 

Theres a million things that went wrong on CB but Im not going to read them all out. If you were in Red River than you heard about the 'Convoy from Hell', which was a freaking gong show. I was on that one. How did the planners not realise there was 2 streets with the same name right beside one another? Couldnt they have figured out a better way for the LSSR guys in the heli's to wait until we get to the ambush before landing and saving us? Oh wait, when we drove by them they shot us in our vehicles. How the hell did enemy force only have 49 rounds for the final assault on Red River? Why didnt they grab A and B coy's and have them all attack red river for the finale? Most people I heard from in Red River were not too happy with a lot of stuff like this, basically just getting no action whatsoever, DNS got a little, but not that much. 

Thanks a lot Arty for not helping anyone but yourselves in Red River. FSG and DNS were doing their part and helping out with base tasks like sandbagging, putting up/taking down mods and just helping out here and there and you guys did nothing but sit in your mods and fuck the dog. When they did finally take down 2 of their 4 mod tents they folded them improperly so FSG and DNS had to repack it all. When they finally helped putting away sandbags they put them in the wrong area and after being told they were in the wrong spot just left them there for others to move for them. Many other examples. . .Thanks Arty, good team work. 

Too funny how nobody was supposed to have showers for over a week, or leave the base, yet there were a ton of cars parked outside of Red River - these were the officers whose own rules didn't apply to them. Officers would walk through the front gate in the morning with their timmies coffee in front of all the troopies. Couldn't believe that one. How do GD's get showers for doing bitch work yet weapons and vtechs get none even though they get diesel, coolant, kerosene, oil, dirt and so on all over them fixing trucks, generators, heaters and who knows what else. As well, thank god noone got anything in their eye's since there was no proper eye wash station.

When the Capt. came around for the AAR on the exercise we had him for nearly an hour pointing out all the problems with CB, our LT ended the session even though we wern't finished, but we did have work to do. CB wasn't that bad, but from my perspective, and many others in Red River, it faultered because of poor planning and completely unrealisitic policies. No offense to the people who planned this, but where the hell were you for all the other ex's where the exact same problems occurred. Arn't you supposed to make changes so they don't happen again? A lot of it was just basic stuff. 

Sorry for the Rant.


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## Rfn (8 May 2006)

yeah, I heard there were problems in Red River camp. Defiantly the place to be was with A Coy or B sqn.

First ex I've been on where the subunits were living in hard shelters, and the FOB & task force HQ were under mod.


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## stukirkpatrick (8 May 2006)

> Couldnt they have figured out a better way for the LSSR guys in the heli's to wait until we get to the ambush before landing and saving us?


From what we were told. there were fuel issues that would have prevented us from deviating too long.



> Oh wait, when we drove by them they shot us in our vehicles.



Well don't blame us!  You make it sound like we didn't know we were lighting up our own convoy :

So what if we accidentially landed a) too early, and b) right on the enemy force position.  :blotto: We secured the LZ, destroyed the enemy, and had to take over their role because they were out of ammunition, and they sent your convoy back through.



> How the hell did enemy force only have 49 rounds for the final assault on Red River? Why didnt they grab A and B coy's and have them all attack red river for the finale?



This was explained to us quite well during our AAR for that attack, especially by an American 1st Sgt.  In this new generation of counter-insurgency warfare, the enemy rarely/never conducts large-scale attacks against all sides of large, fixed coalition positions.  That was the planning for the waves of Soviets in the Cold War, and doesn't represent the modern type of fighting.  A final assault where the enemy is completely crushed may give everyone a feel-good sense, but this can be seen as unrealistic.  The section of insurgents that attacked the front gate did not even have plans to enter the camp, just inflict casualties...  Before they were valiantly thwarted by D&S at the gate, my C6 team in the tower and crazed employees from the horse stables across the road.


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## sexymex (8 May 2006)

MapleLeaf4Evr said:
			
		

> Awesome exercise!  All I can say is that we couldn't have done it without Dan Vandal.
> 
> http://army.ca/cgi-bin/album.pl?photo=Humour/Dan_Vandal.jpg



HA, marty, wheres the maxim one?


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## FlightSergeantRose (8 May 2006)

Kirkpatrick said:
			
		

> From what we were told. there were fuel issues that would have prevented us from deviating too long.
> 
> Well don't blame us!  You make it sound like we didn't know we were lighting up our own convoy :
> 
> ...



The fuel thing I doubt since you were prolly only in the air for a few minutes. A measly 10 mins or so would probably would have been fine. 

Yes we know you knew what you were doing. Still, everyone was making fun of you guys for shooting us. 

The 'realism' card was played by the officers to cover their asses for all the shit they made us go through. If the exercise was so real than the enemy would never have attacked the front gate and would have always gone to the rear where there was virtually no D&S and only 88 and 84 and a wide open fence.  Dont get me started on 'This is how it would have if we were in Kandahar' thing. 

Was that the C6 that jammed and had to go through its stoppage drills every 1 or 3 rounds? Did you guys have it looked at by the Wpns techs at all?


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## stukirkpatrick (8 May 2006)

> Was that the C6 that jammed and had to go through its stoppage drills every 1 or 3 rounds? Did you guys have it looked at by the Wpns techs at all?



It sure was, and it also has done the same thing on every exercise we've taken it on, despite being checked by weapons techs on multiple occasions  ???  And to be fair it was every 5-6 rounds   but we got 1/2 a belt expended during the firefight.


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## Lost Sheep (9 May 2006)

Yeah that whole convoy thing was messed.

I talked to the guy who was the convoy cmdr after endex, and he told me that he had not been allowed to do a route recce for the convoy, hence the wrong turn.  I was on ISCC with him, so I trust his version of events...

At the time however, I was pretty pissed off, as I was squatting in a swamp waiting for the convoy to come by so I could ambush it.  And the choppers landing on us wasn't so funny, especially after I tried to wave them off.  Three of my OPFOR troops were actually under the main rotor and within about ten feet of the tail boom when the one chopper touched down.  Very little sense of ha-ha there, even though no-one was hurt. 

The funny thing was watching the troops very reluctantly and slowly dismount into said swamp.  I think if the D+S crew had been wearing their MILES like they were supposed to, the battle would have been a lot shorter.  I know I got good shots into the side doors as the choppers came down, and it took an awful long time for them to get shaken out into extended line...

Still, being OPFOR is kinda like being a monday morning quarterback, but in our case with a lot more Tim Hortons.

Speaking of which, I think the real heroes of Charging Bison were those unlucky souls at Camp Pioneer, who went without coffee of any sort for an astonishing three days.  Think of that before you complain too much about being out at Red River...


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## Bobbyoreo (9 May 2006)

I was at B Coy and for the most part it was a good ex...not great ...but good.

Start with Monday 60-75 Protesters and I think about 40 of them just kind of followed the crowd as..only about 20-30 said or danced at the front gate and they came back on Friday to show us a movie....but mostly they came with very little knowledge and yea..they were very sad.

The people in the area of B Coy were great free pizza for the whole coy and beer (12 pack) which our tool of a CSM dumbed out....but we knew that would happen. Red Bull drove by and gave all the troops in the compound a free round plus the Chocolate man came and gave out some chocolate charging bison heads...not to meantion the card we received from a family saying alot of nice things about us...was really nice to see that much support in the city I grew up in and love to live in. All in All...was a good ex and the support from the area was great. I ve never had so many people wave and come talk to me before and I think the other people in the Coy were just as surprised.

As for Red River ....well what can you say when there is 150+ troops in one area and another 200 officers ..LOL...it was a jug ....  !! Plus not to meantion the fact that very little of them had any OP experience and they never asked!!! I think to many of these young officers are watching over there ...and trying to use that as experience!!! Sad but hey I'm only a cpl and they wont listen...so I just sat back and video taped them making fools of their self's!!! lol Yea Red River really had to many chiefs and not enough Indians...ahh well next year we should be better!!! LOL...ok I'm joking!!!

All in All it was a good ex and a better training area then most if not all bases in this country. Lessons learned and can be built up on now. I had one huge problem with the ex...ie convoys  The Reg force units have deployed since 2002 in Afghan...and have been working out a great way to do convoys.....why in the world didn't anyone from this ex call the strats or PPCLI and ask for their help is way beyond me. I brought this up and everyone said I was right they should have asked for help. Maybe next year....that seems to be the motto for every ex..

Anyways that was my thoughts on the ex!!!


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## MJP (9 May 2006)

Bobbyoreo said:
			
		

> I had one huge problem with the ex...ie convoys  The Reg force units have deployed since 2002 in Afghan...and have been working out a great way to do convoys.....why in the world didn't anyone from this ex call the strats or PPCLI and ask for their help is way beyond me. I brought this up and everyone said I was right they should have asked for help. Maybe next year....that seems to be the motto for every ex..


The best training we had for TF1-06 was the week of stand training with the Americans that were in the AO we were RIPing from.  Hands down the best way to get your drills and SOPs down is to run them by the guys that use them everyday...


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## Grimmy (9 May 2006)

(Quote)
Thanks a lot Arty for not helping anyone but yourselves in Red River. FSG and DNS were doing their part and helping out with base tasks like sandbagging, putting up/taking down mods and just helping out here and there and you guys did nothing but sit in your mods and frig the dog. When they did finally take down 2 of their 4 mod tents they folded them improperly so FSG and DNS had to repack it all. When they finally helped putting away sandbags they put them in the wrong area and after being told they were in the wrong spot just left them there for others to move for them. Many other examples. . .Thanks Arty, good team work.
(End Quote)

First off, the sandbag incident was because we were instructed by your highers in the FSG to pile them there, 2nd dont you dare call my guys dog F**kers.  I bet you spent 95% of your ex in camp, every day of that ex my guys were up earlier than anyother unit because we had orders to deploy at 0700 and we could never drag anyone from the FSG away from their warm tents to fuel up our vehicles up at night so we were trying to get 12 vehicles fuled in less than 30 mins.  Once we finally got our vehicles fueled up by the remfs, we headed out to occupy gun positons all over town to provide direct and indirect support for all the units on the Ex.  To make matters worse, we were in static positons, so we had to constantly be manning sentry positions, LP, VCP and sent hourly clearing patrols to secure our position. This if you dont know this is very manpower intensive and it doesnt help when we are being further depleted by the fact that the D&S platoon is taking 5 of my guys every day.  You should come out on one of our FTX's and Stand in a Gunner's shoes before you start to criticize.


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## MapleLeaf4Evr (9 May 2006)

sexymex said:
			
		

> HA, marty, wheres the maxim one?



It's saved for my private collection


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## RiflemanPhil (9 May 2006)

sexymex said:
			
		

> HA, marty, wheres the maxim one?



haha, i was thinkin the same thing. 
you bloody medics haha, way tooo much time on your hands.


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## sexymex (10 May 2006)

I think all that patrolling was good work up for my BFT today.... I kicked ass. 1 hour, 38 minutes. I was pretty happy with that


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## Highland Laddie (11 May 2006)

Lost Sheep said:
			
		

> Speaking of which, I think the real heroes of Charging Bison were those unlucky souls at Camp Pioneer, who went without coffee of any sort for an astonishing three days.  Think of that before you complain too much about being out at Red River...



Yes, but we did have hot showers every day, unlike everyone else, including the TF Commander!

As for the coffee....let's just say we adapted and overcame!


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## Bobbyoreo (14 May 2006)

ohh for the love of god...there was not a hot shower to come for most of camps....but the arena....pffftt....all those hockey showers!!! LOL


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