# Contract Differences



## Newguy1 (1 May 2014)

I was reading in another forum how certain trades are offered a 25 contract after their initial 3 year, but for RMS clerk and other trades, they are only give 5 year contracts after their initial 3 years.

Anyone know why this is??


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## upandatom (2 May 2014)

I am fairly certain you always have the option of the 5 year after your initial engagement. 

eg
3 year 5 year 
           OR 
3 year 5 year 25 year
           OR
3 year 25 year

There were difference between trades and the length of the initial engagement. 
Mine was 3 years, I knew people that had 4 or 5 year initial engagements. 

The only thing is, you cant be offered 5 year contracts over and over.
I signed another 5 after my 3 and 5, that wasnt supposed to happen.


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## Eye In The Sky (2 May 2014)

Newguy1 said:
			
		

> I was reading in another forum how certain trades are offered a 25 contract after their initial 3 year, but for RMS clerk and other trades, they are only give 5 year contracts after their initial 3 years.
> 
> Anyone know why this is??



Our contracts are (not really contracts, but that's a different topic) called Terms of Service (TOS).  Each trade (called MOSID) in the CAF has what is called a TOS sequence.

The TOS sequence for each trade are managed and changed, as required, to meet the needs of trade and CAF, over short/medium/long term based on whatever method to use to determine those things; it could be 10 sided dice or throwing darts at balloons for all I know.  But, that is the overall goal.

There are difference TOS offers made to members.

- VIE (Variable Initial Engagement).  This is what all CFRC applicants and Component Transfers get when they join the Reg Force.  Not all MOSIDs/trades have the same VIE length, but are usually between 3 to 5 years.
- CE (Continuing Engagement).  This is a fixed period, usually 5 years but can be more.  This is part of the TOS offer between the VIE and IE25.
- IE25 (Intermediate?  Engagement).  This is the TOS a member will sign that will take them to 25 YOS (years of service), which will/should make them pensionable.
- FPS (Fixed Period of Service).  Similar to a CE, but is usually offered after and IE25 is complete and for a fixed time.
- IPS (Indefinite Period of Service).  IPS is a TOS that may be offered before your IE25 is up, where you agree to service for an indefinite period of time.  

Ok. So after you understand those, here is the *TOS sequence* for any given trade.

1.  Member enrols in the Reg Force and signs a VIE.

2.  12 months prior to the VIE expiring, if the member is deemed suitable for further TOS, you will be offered the choice of either a CE 5, or your IE25.  This is every trade.  If you are sure you want to serve 25 years, you can sign it right then and there and voila, you are on your IE25.  If you aren't quite sure, you can sign the CE (usually 5 years) and continue on your way.

3.  If you signed the CE, again 12 months before your current TOS expires, if you are deemed suitable for further TOS, you will be offered either another CE, and your IE 25 again.  Some trades, you don't get the 2nd CE option, some you do.  Again, 10 sided dice/darts and balloons, but that's the way it is and trade-specific.  As far I can recall, the most CEs for any trade post-VIE is 2;  so a TOS sequence that would be VIE-CE-CE-IE25.  After the 2nd CE, you will be offered the IE25 or can release.

I won't get into the IPS/FPS stuff that follows the IE25.  

So, if you are curious as to what that means to you as an applicant, just as your CFRC staff for the TOS sequence for the trades you are interested in.  It all contained in ADM (HR-MIL) Instruction 05/05, which they have access to.  

There is also a 2009 CANFORGEN (027/09 IIRC, might be 031) that directs the post-VIE TOS offer contains both the CE and IE25, and the member chooses which one they sign.  

That is all from memory, but I'm sure that is pretty close to bullseye for accuracy.  

Cheers


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## MJP (2 May 2014)

As EITS has pointed out ADM (HR-MIL) Instruction 05/05 contains the answer you need.  If you go to annex A, appendix 1 and scroll down to RMS you will find that in conjunction with the instructions at the top of the appendix you are to be offered both a CE and an IE 25.

Short answer, your other forum is wrong.


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## Eye In The Sky (2 May 2014)

MJP said:
			
		

> Short answer, your other forum is wrong.



Damn, why didn't I just say that.


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## DAA (2 May 2014)

MJP said:
			
		

> As EITS has pointed out ADM (HR-MIL) Instruction 05/05 contains the answer you need.  If you go to annex A, appendix 1 and scroll down to RMS you will find that in conjunction with the instructions at the top of the appendix you are to be offered both a CE and an IE 25.
> 
> Short answer, your other forum is wrong.



Yup, CF MILPERSCOM Instr 05/05 is the place to look.  Spells it out in black and white.

Infantry is a strange one.  I believe the TOS Sequence is the VIE (3-years), followed by the option of a "5 year CE or IE 25", which is offered three consecutive times, then it's IE 25 or an IPS Offer.


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## MJP (2 May 2014)

DAA said:
			
		

> Yup, CF MILPERSCOM Instr 05/05 is the place to look.  Spells it out in black and white.
> 
> Infantry is a strange one.  I believe the TOS Sequence is the VIE (3-years), followed by the option of a "5 year CE or IE 25", which is offered three consecutive times, then it's IE 25 or an IPS Offer.



Infantry is CE 3 5 5 5 IE but the same holds true that an IE will be offered along with the CE

The RCEME branch has the continual CE 5 for it's mbrs.


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## blbenzies (2 May 2014)

My VIE is 6 years for Med Tech, which I'm told is peculiar by my losing unit. Can I expect the same offers? 6-5-25?


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## Eye In The Sky (2 May 2014)

Yes, it will go as I wrote earlier; you will be offered both a CE and IE25 12 months before your VIE expires.


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## Newguy1 (12 May 2014)

aside from the obvious time differences, is there an advantage to signing a 5 CE over the IE 25?


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## Eye In The Sky (12 May 2014)

If you sign a IE25 and then want out before it is over, you could be penalized some;  last posting, that kind of stuff.  I not really up to speed on how it affects a member who releases before their TOS is up so would be guessing and that won't help you.

If you sign a CE5, and want to release at the end of it, AFAIK you will still get moved back to your place of enrolment, etc.

Someone with more knowledge about that will have to chime in.


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## CountDC (12 May 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Damn, why didn't I just say that.



Like to hear yourself, or in this case read yourself.     ;D


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## sarahsmom (12 May 2014)

blbenzies said:
			
		

> My VIE is 6 years for Med Tech, which I'm told is peculiar by my losing unit. Can I expect the same offers? 6-5-25?



6 years is standard for Medic. In theory it lets you do your QL3s and 5s before your initial TOS is up.


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## upandatom (23 May 2014)

Well, 
Lets add more to this;

1. My CE expired March 2013, I had yet to sign.
2. I was offered another CE of 5 and then the 25 also,
3. I opted for the 5 as I am truly not happy, AT ALL, It was a year of me sitting in rooms, full of people and everyone talking and not understanding a word, depressed, in my current unit at the time, and seeing my parents go through in the 90s when postings and promotions froze, and the eerie feeling we were/are on the same path i figured it was a way to save me being stuck somewhere for 5+ years. 
4. A WO from the base side clerk cell then proceeded to email me, saying "we altered you TOS and you are now serving until 2031" I replied no, I signed a 5, I have no intentions of staying here for another 5 years" 
5. All said and done, I received my 5, as granted. But now it didnt matter because I am/will be happy as i was just accepted for an AVOT.


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