# New IRP / Move policy-effective  Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]



## paws (29 Jan 2013)

If you were posted betwen 1 Apr 11 and 31 Mar 12 this CANFORGEM may interest you.

CANFORGEN 011/13 CMP 008/13 251938Z JAN 13
RETROACTIVE ADJUSTMENT OF POSTING ALLOWANCE (RAPA)
UNCLASSIFIED


REF: CANFORGEN 062/12 CMP 029/12 301516Z MAR 12 



A PAY RAISE WAS APPROVED FOR CF MEMBERS AT REF RESULTING IN A RETROACTIVE ADJUSTMENT OF POSTING ALLOWANCE (RAPA) FOR MEMBERS WITH CHANGE OF STRENGTH (COS) DATES BETWEEN 1 APR 11 AND 31 MAR 12 


THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROVIDE INSTRUCTIONS TO CLARIFY THE RAPA PROCESS FOR ALL AFFECTED PERSONNEL 


CF PERS WHO WERE RELOCATED BY BROOKFIELD GLOBAL RELOCATION SERVICES (BGRS) WITH COS DATES BETWEEN 1 APR 11 AND 31 MAR 12 MAY BE ENTITLED TO RAPA. MEMBERS WHOSE RELOCATION FILE WAS COMPLETED WILL BE CONTACTED BY BGRS VIA EMAIL TO REGISTER ON THE BGRS SECURE WEBSITE TO CONFIRM THEIR MAILING ADDRESS AND BANKING INFORMATION. CF PERS MUST REGISTER NO LATER THAN TEN DAYS AFTER RECEIPT OF THE EMAIL. IN THE EVENT THAT ACCESS TO THE DWAN IS UNAVAILABLE OWING TO FIREWALL CONSTRAINTS, PERSONNEL WHO NEED TO REGISTER ARE TO CONTACT BGRS VIA EMAIL AT: RETRO.PAY(AT SIGN) BROOKFIELDGRS.CA AND PROVIDE THEIR CONTACT INFO, AND BGRS WILL CONTACT THEM. ALTERNATIVELY, CF PERS WHO ARE UNABLE TO REGISTER ONLINE CAN CALL BGRS AT THE FOLLOWING COORDINATES: 902-481-3301 EXT 176 OR 177 FOR SERVICE IN ENGLISH, OR 902-481-3301 EXT 300 OR 301 FOR SERVICE IN FRENCH 


RELOCATION FILES OF CF PERS THAT ARE STILL ACTIVE WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY UPDATED BY BGRS. MEMBERS CAN VERIFY BY CHECKING THEIR FINANCIAL WORKSHEET FOR THE ADJUSTMENT 


APPLICATIONS FOR RAPA WILL BE PROCESSED CENTRALLY BY BGRS. ACCORDINGLY, PLEASE DIRECT ANY COMMENTS OR CONCERNS TO THE NUMBERS PROVIDED ABOVE AND NOT TO YOUR LOCAL BGRS OFFICE, IRP COORDINATOR, PAY OFFICE OR ORDERLY ROOM 


ONCE A MEMBER HAS REGISTERED ONLINE, ENTITLEMENTS WILL BE REVERIFIED AND PAYMENTS MADE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. HOWEVER, GIVEN THAT THE ANTICIPATED VOLUME EXCEEDS ELEVEN THOUSAND APPLICANTS, DELAYS MAY OCCUR IN SOME CASES. YOUR PATIENCE IS APPRECIATED. DEDUCTIONS AT SOURCE WILL BE WITHHELD ON CASH PAYOUTS 


AS THE RAPA IS A TAXABLE BENEFIT, A T4 WILL BE ISSUED FOR ALL PAYMENTS, AND A RELEVE 1 WHERE APPLICABLE 


SIGNED BY RADM SMITH, CMP


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## myhusky (28 Dec 2016)

Hello,

I'm not a CAF member yet, but hope to find some clarification on a few questions about family relocation.

My family (wife and three children) are living in Montreal where I have started a new job from June 2016. Before that we lived in Ontario. We are renting in Montreal and still owns our house in Ontario along with most of our household goods. We did not sell Ontario home because we will return to Ontario after couple years.

My CAF application has been transfered to Montreal from Barrie, Ontario. If i get a job offer ans enlisted at Montreal, my family might stay in Montreal until the first CAF paid move. will CAF pay for the move from Toronto to the first posting? We have very little House good in Montreal, but a lot more in Ontario.

Should my family move back to Ontario home once I'm enlisted? My goal is for CAF to cover the cost related to sell our home in Ontario, because Ontario is where our permanent home is.

Any information is appropriated!


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## PuckChaser (28 Dec 2016)

See here: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2014-directive-amend-ch11.page

We have some real good admin folks here that can help out, but a quick read of the policy indicates that since you're enrolling in Montreal, that's where the CAF will pay to move your stuff from.


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## edlabonte (28 Dec 2016)

Good day,

The Moving Policy as far as i have ever known is what they call a "door to door" move.  So they will send the moving truck to ONE location to pick up your furniture and effects (F&E) and move them to a new location (your first posting).  So if your property is split between two locations, you should move your stuff to the "One Location" or be prepared to move things from the second location on your own dime.  

I've only done 3 moves in the last 8 years and that has been the policy for all of my moves.  

Be warned, these guys who plan the moves, are not big on "exceptions" so don't plan on it.  They follow the policy and that's that!

Good luck with the enrollment and Basic Training


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## myhusky (30 Dec 2016)

If I get enlisted at Montreal, and my family will likely move back to Ontario during my training to be close with family friends, so the separation will be less stressful for my wife. In this case, there is nothing in Montreal to be moved. How will CAF handle this case?


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## Occam (30 Dec 2016)

I suspect the highlighted clause will come into play:



> 11.1.02 Move of (D)HG&E
> 
> When CF members become entitled to move their (D)HG&E they may move from:
> 
> ...


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## captloadie (30 Dec 2016)

The real issue the OP is going to have is that while he can have his stuff moved from anywhere, the benefits for selling his house in Ontario will come into question. The rules are pretty specific about what constitutes a primary residence. It normally means where your dependants are residing on enrolment, (or in the case of follow on postings, from the place the CAF last provided a paid move). If the OP has his residence in Ontario rented out, then unless his family moves back into the home, and he gets his paperwork to note that is his primary residence, they may be out of luck.


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## ModlrMike (30 Dec 2016)

I agree with the above. I think the safest thing would be to move your family back to Barrie and have your primary residence declared as such. The out of pocket costs to move yourself, will be substantially less than you will lose by not moving back.


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## myhusky (30 Dec 2016)

Thank you all for all the great info. I agree the safest bet is to move back to Ontario.


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## PuckChaser (30 Dec 2016)

myhusky said:
			
		

> Thank you all for all the great info. I agree the safest bet is to move back to Ontario.


Don't forget the second part, you will find the CAF is very paperwork oriented. Make sure they are aware your primary residence is Barrie, ON and that Montreal is only temporary for work.


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## mariomike (31 Dec 2016)

myhusky said:
			
		

> My goal is for CAF to cover the cost related to sell our home in Ontario, because Ontario is where our permanent home is.



See also,

OP: myhusky
How late in application process can file still be transferred?
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/124882/post-1470123.html#msg1470123
Is it ok if I move back to Ontario after accept job offer but before sware in?

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


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## fullmetalpacket (4 Feb 2017)

Hello, sorry if I am posting in the wrong forum.

I would like to know if there is any help from the CF after BMQ to sell my house? I mean movers / days off to move the family / etc ?

Thanks


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## Eye In The Sky (5 Feb 2017)

Once you are approved, yes.  

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/toc-byyear.page

Usually, we get 5 days relocation leave on either end of the move, not counted against your Annual Leave for the year.


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## fullmetalpacket (5 Feb 2017)

Thanks for your reply.

That also works when you are sent to Borden for training? I was told earlier that you needed to be fully trained (QL5) in order to get those benefits.


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## Eye In The Sky (5 Feb 2017)

fullmetalpacket said:
			
		

> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> That also works when you are sent to Borden for training? I was told earlier that you needed to be fully trained (QL5) in order to get those benefits.



Usually, you will be posted with full posting benefits after your initial occupation training is complete and you are posted to your first unit.  It doesn't necessarily mean QL5 and it trade dependent.  What trade are you hoping to join as?

Some trades, you can also be approved for a move of family and effects while completing your training;  it depends on how long the training is.  I had a friend who went to CFSATE Borden (AVN Tech) and one who went ATIS Tech (Kingston) who were both approved cost moves of their families and effect (commonly referred to as D HG & E...Dependants, Household Goods and Effects) to their training locations because of the length of training, who then also were moved at public expense after becoming qualified in their occupation (QL3 for both) and posted to their first unit.


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## fullmetalpacket (5 Feb 2017)

I will "re-join" as AVS Tech. I started BMQ last summer but had to leave on week 5 because of wife pregnancy going bad... Now that everything is fine with the baby the CF are allowing me to re-join without waiting the 1 year period. Really happy about that.

AVS Tech training is theoretically 6 months POET in Kingston followed by 12 months CFSATE. I would need to sell my house and move kids and wife to Borden or Kingston after BMQ.

Thanks for your time and help.


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## Eye In The Sky (5 Feb 2017)

fullmetalpacket said:
			
		

> I will "re-join" as AVS Tech. I started BMQ last summer but had to leave on week 5 because of wife pregnancy going bad... Now that everything is fine with the baby the CF are allowing me to re-join without waiting the 1 year period. Really happy about that.
> 
> AVS Tech training is theoretically 6 months POET in Kingston followed by 12 months CFSATE. I would need to sell my house and move kids and wife to Borden or Kingston after BMQ.
> 
> Thanks for your time and help.



Well, good luck and hopefully you'll find yourself in Borden sooner than later.  Once you get to CFSATE, I am sure they'll fill you in on what you can/can't do regarding moving your family there with you.  Worst case scenario, you get to move them after your POET/Common Core/QL3 trg when you get posted to  your first unit.


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## da1root (6 Feb 2017)

Clarification on moves: There are 3 types of moves within the CAF.
(1) DND (New Recruit) move: This move type is handled by the military (not Brookfield), any clarifications should be channeled through the respective CFRC to the CFRG HQ Movements Sergeant.
(2) DND Move: This move type is handled by the members orderly room (still not Brookfield), any clarifications on benefits should be sent to the applicable HRA/FSA handling your move through the Base Superintendent HRA/FSA to DCBA.
(3) Brookfield Move: This move type is for those that have reached Occupational Function Point (OFP), any clarifications on benefits are clarified directly by Brookfield.

Normally moves that fall under (1) and (2) are prohibited so there isn't much to handle.


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## Eye In The Sky (6 Feb 2017)

OFP = _Operational _Function Point actually.   ;D

I haven't read thru the IRP stuff in 4ish years, it used to state when the mbr reached "Career Status", which for NCMs was 3 years or QL3 qualified (IIRC), whichever came first.  Not sure if it still goes off that definition.


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## da1root (7 Feb 2017)

Even when I was the Movements Sergeant at CFRG HQ I always put occupational by mistake... one of these days I'll stop doing that...

(PS It actually stands for "Operationally Functional Point") :-D


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## Eye In The Sky (7 Feb 2017)

Ya...they changed it around '09.  You know, to make it...more betterer!   

Any idea if the "Career Status" definition is still part of the whole move deal?


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## Navy_Pete (8 Feb 2017)

Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> Clarification on moves: There are 3 types of moves within the CAF.
> (1) DND (New Recruit) move: This move type is handled by the military (not Brookfield), any clarifications should be channeled through the respective CFRC to the CFRG HQ Movements Sergeant.
> (2) DND Move: This move type is handled by the members orderly room (still not Brookfield), any clarifications on benefits should be sent to the applicable HRA/FSA handling your move through the Base Superintendent HRA/FSA to DCBA.
> (3) Brookfield Move: This move type is for those that have reached Occupational Function Point (OFP), any clarifications on benefits are clarified directly by Brookfield.
> ...



My trade has a roughly 4 year training time until OFP, so have done both 2 and 3.  You still get the main benefits for a DND move that you would from a Brookfield in terms of lawyer fees etc when it's not a prohibited move (ie you can buy a house and they move your furniture and effects).  

Not sure how common it is outside the Navy, as our training/employment is effectively at the same location, so it makes sense to not have a prohibited move for 2-3 years after some of the initial stuff is done.


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## McG (25 Nov 2017)

Was reading about some of the IRP changes that are about to launch into effect, like the use of preloaded purchase cards and the transition from local offices to centralized call centres.  I also saw that there will be no more option to use the posting allowance to buy down mortgage rates.  I am curious what brings about that change.  As interest rates are going up, it does not seem like soldiers are being helped by seeing this go away.


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## dapaterson (25 Nov 2017)

Not certain about the mortgage interest buy-down; the CFIRP manual is still showing it:

8.3.15 Mortgage interest buydown
Personalized benefit
Interest expenses to buy down a mortgage and associated legal fees shall be reimbursed. Buy-down amount shall not be below the prescribed rate as determined by Canada Revenue Agency (CRA).

(http://www.forces.gc.ca/assets/FORCES_Internet/docs/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/relocation-directive-2009-2015.pdf)


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## Good2Golf (25 Nov 2017)

Just to be clear, dapaterson, that's the "expired by two years and we couldn't be bothered to write a new one" policy? ;D

Just taking the peepee out of ya, my friend! 

The system will take a while to catch up and fuck the member, but it will happen... BTDT

Cheers
G2G


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## kev994 (25 Nov 2017)

The thing I don’t get about this debit card is that they refuse to pay insurance on a rental car because who knows what ‘basic insurance’ is. How am I supposed to rent a car without insuring it? at least my MasterCard insured rental vehicles.  Debit card: good idea domestically but in USA they barely know what a debit card is, they’re essentially a Visa card here, I can’t imagine that is going to work.


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## kratz (25 Nov 2017)

Kev994,

As you mentioned, some credit cards off car rental insurance.

People can also add a car rental insurance clause to their personal insurance policy.
Between postings / provinces the add-on has run about $20 extra per year.


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## kev994 (25 Nov 2017)

Not if you have communist prairie insurance. For MPI the vehicle is insured, there is no rental car insurance available.


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## SupersonicMax (25 Nov 2017)

Where can we see the updates to the admistration of the relocation program?  I knew they were going the centralized administration way but I wasn't aware of changes to the policy itself.

For the interest buy-down:  if you do the math, it's only good for you if you do a full 5-year posting.  Anything less and you lose.  Better invest your personalied enveloppe in RRSP/TFSA.


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## McG (25 Nov 2017)

I have only seen an email that was cut and pasted from a chain that came either from CMP or Army HQ.

The mechanism to roll personnel envelope into RRSP is apparently also gone.


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## SupersonicMax (25 Nov 2017)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/know-your-benefits-articles/update-modernizing-relocation.page

The above link says the benefits aren't affected. Para 8.3.15 of the CFIRP talks about the interest buy-down.  Not sure which is right or wrong.


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## kev994 (25 Nov 2017)

MCG said:
			
		

> The mechanism to roll personnel envelope into RRSP is apparently also gone.



This is a pretty basic income tax function, there’s nothing special about it. I have a hard time believing this could just disappear.


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## dapaterson (25 Nov 2017)

As far as I know, at this point there have been no changes to the benefits under CFIRP, only to how some things are administered.

That said, there is always the possibility that a new CFIRP could be approved in time for APS 18.


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## McG (25 Nov 2017)

kev994 said:
			
		

> This is a pretty basic income tax function, there’s nothing special about it. I have a hard time believing this could just disappear.


The RRSP would not disappear, but the mechanism to directly deposits the money without deducting tax will be gone.


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## SupersonicMax (25 Nov 2017)

MCG said:
			
		

> The RRSP would not disappear, but the mechanism to directly deposits the money without deducting tax will be gone.



You'll just get the money back in May vs keeping it in your pocket.  No net chance to your bottom line.


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## McG (26 Nov 2017)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> You'll just get the money back in May vs keeping it in your pocket.  No net chance to your bottom line.


Not so much.  If you put the whole unused portion of your personal envelope into an RRSP, that is better at tax time than if you put in the whole unused portion of your personal envelope less taxes deducted at source.  Now I acknowledge you could reach into other saving to make up the difference of what would go into the RRSP, but a lot (I would guess most) of people won’t (for various reasons).  

And even for those who use other funds to provide the RRSP with the value of deducted taxes, this change of process would see the government giving itself an interest free loan from on the pockets of a lot of service families for a period of (typically) most of a year (APS to tax filing season). That is not cool.


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## Halifax Tar (28 Nov 2017)

Has anyone else received an email, from the address above, about being owed some money from a recent posting ?  This is tied into our pay and benefit in crease we received in the summer. 

It seems fishy that they need a copy of a blank cheque when they should already have my banking info. 
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Dear PO2 *********, 

On 02 June 2017, a retroactive pay increase for Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) Members was announced for four fiscal years:
•2014/2015 
•2015/2016 
•2016/2017 
•2017/2018 

This retroactive pay increase will require an adjustment of the posting allowances of Members relocated under the IRP.

Our records indicate that you are eligible for an increase and, as your file has been reconciled, you are entitled to an additional gross amount of $***** in a lump sum payment.

How much will I receive?

The amount you will receive is the difference in posting allowance, between the previous pay rate and your new pay rate, net of taxes and other standard withholding amounts as required by Canada Revenue Agency.

How will I receive my payment?

Through a direct deposit to your bank account for the amount due to you, net of taxes and other standard withholding amounts. Please note that no interest will be paid and payments cannot be used towards a Registered Retired Savings Plan (RRSP).

Do I have to do anything?

Yes. Follow the instructions at the end of this email.

Is it taxable?

Yes, this Posting Allowance payment is a taxable benefit, like all lump sum cash payments from your Personalized funding envelope. We will issue a T4 and/or RL1 for the applicable taxation year by 28 Feb of the following year. For example, payments issued before 31 Dec 2017 will be taxable in 2017, and we will issue a T4/RL1 by 28 Feb 2018.

When will I receive my payment?

RAPA payments must be complete by 10 Apr 2018. Once entitlements and banking have been re-verified, payment will be made as quickly as possible. All RAPA payments must be completed by 10 Apr 2018

What if I have a question? 

Please contact us and we will be pleased to answer your questions or give you any additional information you need. You can reach us at retro.pay@bgrs.ca

Instructions:  Follow These Two Mandatory Steps to Receive Your Payment
1.Provide a void cheque or a letter from your financial institution to confirm that we have valid banking information to send the payment by EFT. Please upload a copy of your void cheque or the letter from your financial institution on the Member Secure Website at www.relodialogue.com: ◦From the Home tab select Document Management from the left menu bar. 
◦A new page will open 
◦Complete the steps as prompted and select the appropriate category of Void Cheque – Banking Information 
◦Attach the scanned cheque or letter 
◦Hit “Submit.” 

2.Update your mailing address on the Member Secure Website to ensure your T4/RL1 is updated accordingly: ◦From the Home tab select Your Profile from the left menu bar. 
◦A series of folders will open 
◦Select Mailing Address 
◦Hit the “Add” button to add your new mailing address


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## jollyjacktar (28 Nov 2017)

A number of us here on IR have got this, myself included.  They need updated info to process.  Its legit.  

That's not to say they can't be idiots.  A Chief who came up and back was informed he was getting $4k, he said there must be a mistake to which they replied they had checked with his employer, the sum was correct and not to contact them again on the matter.  He's going to put the money aside and wait for the clawback.

The sum I'm getting is $78 gross which is about what l figured it would be.


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## Halifax Tar (28 Nov 2017)

Well thats good news.  Ya mine is in the 70 -80$ range as well.


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## Pusser (28 Nov 2017)

I received the same email.  It's all legitimate.  I too was a little surprised they needed this information - again.  However, I did actually check my posting file on the secure website and noticed that there was in fact no void cheque there.  I suspect they collected that in person when I opened the file for the actual posting.  I think this whole process is mostly about ensuring they don't make a mistake.  A pain in the butt for sure, but understandable. 

As it turns out, my return will be about $500 gross (which is correct), but $4K seems wildly excessive.  Whose pay has gone up that much in the last four years?, or alternatively, who's been posted that many times that they're owed that much back pay on several payments of posting allowance?


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## jollyjacktar (28 Nov 2017)

Of course its a fuck up and why the Chief questioned Brookfield to begin with.  He was just up here on IR and back home again.  We find it entertaining they're apparently so thick they can't figure it out for themselves.


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## Lumber (28 Nov 2017)

I received this today:



> In 1 week, the new Brookfield Relocation contract and system will come into effect (1 Dec). To summarize, this is what we have been made aware of to date concerning the new system
> 
> 1.	Members registering with BGRS until 27 Nov will be administered under the old system and their files will remain open for 1 year;
> 2.	From 0800 – 2000 hrs you will have access to a BGRS representative;
> ...



I'm sure a lot of people will be looking at the money/tax implications, but one of the concerns that was brought up that I have a question about is COS and RFD date.

The MHRRP (A-Pm-245) is the only source document that I can find that clearly states that a RFD greater (or less) than 30 days from COS must be staffed through the career manager.

My question is, why? And who would care if you ignored this. Obviously, if you're filling a key position, like ship's XO, Navigator, Chief Eng, etc, then a delay of more than 30 days could necessitate someone else being posted to the position so that the unit (ship) can actually get on with it's business. But if the ship is sitting in the ditch and doesn't really need a NavO, and because of personal circumstances (or delays by Brookfield), the new NavO is requesting an RFD that's  days from COS, then why not? If the gaining CO doesn't really need him, and the losing CO has no problem letting them kick-around the office for an extra 60 days, does it really need to go to the CM? We trust our COs to make much more critical decisions than "should I allow a change in this member's place of duty to his previous place of duty for 60 days?"

If you read the "challenges" and "consideration" (which I did not provide), it looks like DGCB and D Mil C are going to be encouraging exactly this. The new system with the RELO cards might make it difficult for members to keep there RFDs within the 30 days of COS (at least at first).


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## dapaterson (28 Nov 2017)

The written policy is COs can auth a max of 30 days.


In practice, a reasonable pair of COs (gaining and losing) will be able to negotiate in the best interests of the member, the gaining and the losing unit and then inform the Career manager of the change.

An unreasonable career manager (refusing the agreement of the two COs) will likely then have his section head in D Mil C engaged by two pissed off COs.  And the problem (in the future) will be self correcting.

In an era of email communications I do not see this as an area of particular concern.


Re: point 14 on the list: Posting Allowance has always been taxable.  Rolling into RRSPs will still be possible, but will require the member to do so, not BGRS on their behalf.  Similarly, there may be the ability to buy down interest rates, but that will have to be done and paid by the member out of the PA they receive.

The benefit to removing Posting Allowance from BGRS is that pay increases should then be actionned automatically, and members should then receive a single CAF T4 (unless they are paid by both CCPS and RPSR in a single fiscal year...)


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## Lumber (28 Nov 2017)

I'm curious about the relo card. How many third party providers are going to have issues being paid by a cash card? During my last move, most of the 3rd party providers paid just billed Brookfield directly, or took hard cash.


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## sidemount (28 Nov 2017)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I'm curious about the relo card. How many third party providers are going to have issues being paid by a cash card? During my last move, most of the 3rd party providers paid just billed Brookfield directly, or took hard cash.



I'm pretty sure on my last cost move the only thing we paid cash for were hotels and meals. All other providers billed Brookfield directly much like you.


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## Nfld Sapper (28 Nov 2017)

Looks like this might be related:

CANFORGEN 200/17 CMP 103/17 061533Z NOV 17

RETROACTIVE ADJUSTMENT OF POSTING ALLOWANCE (RAPA)

UNCLASSIFIED


REF: CANFORGEN 101/17 CMP 051/17 021245Z JUN 17 


1. THE REF ANNOUNCED A PAY RAISE FOR NCMS, GSO AND PILOTS IN THE RANK OF LCOL AND BELOW, AND FOR MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS. THIS WILL RESULT IN A RETROACTIVE ADJUSTMENT OF POSTING ALLOWANCE (RAPA) FOR MEMBERS WITH A CHANGE OF STRENGTH (COS) DATE AFTER 1 APR 14 


2. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO CLARIFY THE RAPA PROCESS FOR ALL AFFECTED CAF MEMBERS 


3. CAF PERS WHO WERE RELOCATED BY BGRS WITH COS DATE AFTER 1 APR 14 MAY BE ENTITLED TO RAPA. RAPA FOR OFFICERS IN THE RANK OF COL/CAPT(N) AND ABOVE, AND LEGAL OFFICERS IN THE RANK OF LCOL AND ABOVE WILL BE ACTIONED AT A LATER DATE 


4. ELIGIBLE MEMBERS WILL BE CONTACTED BY BGRS VIA EMAIL 


5. RAPA WILL BE PROCESSED CENTRALLY BY BGRS. THE BGRS ADVISOR THAT WAS ASSIGNED TO YOUR RELOCATION FILE WILL NOT PROCESS THE RAPA. CAF MEMBERS ARE REQUESTED TO WAIT TO BE CONTACTED BY THE BGRS CENTRAL TEAM AND NOT DIRECT ANY COMMENTS OR CONCERNS TO THEIR LOCAL BGRS ADVISOR, IRP COORDINATOR, PAY OFFICE OR ORDERLY ROOM 


6. WHILE THE GOAL IS TO INITIATE RAPA PAYMENTS IN 2017, THE VOLUME (IN EXCESS OF THIRTY THOUSAND CAF MEMBERS), MAY RESULT IN PAYMENTS IN 2018 


7. DEDUCTIONS AT SOURCE WILL BE WITHHELD ON ALL RAPA PAYMENTS 


8. AS THE RAPA IS A TAXABLE BENEFIT, A T4 AND A RELEVE 1, WHERE APPLICABLE, WILL BE ISSUED VIA THE BGRS SECURE WEBSITE


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## ballz (28 Nov 2017)

From a tax perspective, the Personal Envelope (which includes the posting allowance, hence why I'm bringing it up) wasn't handled very well by Brookfield, IMO. And now, it's kind of worse, and Point #14 is written very poorly.

For any move that fits CRA's definition, there is a whole bunch of expenses that are deductible at tax time. The personalized envelope was meant to pay for those, and then anything left over is an economic benefit and therefore taxable. So, if your personalized envelope was 5000, and you had to pay a 2500 penalty to break/port your mortgage, then only 2500 was taxable because that 2500 was an economic benefit. If it was 5000, then nothing was taxable since there was no economic benefit. And if it was 10,000, then you could deduct the additional 5,000 come tax season since it fits the bill of an eligible moving expense.

In hindsight from my last move, had I known what they were doing, I would have claimed all the eligible expenses under my personalized envelope, and then had the remaining paid out. It makes tax season much easier to deal with since I wouldn't need to deduct things like "hotel upgrades" (the max rate for Kenora, ON, was like 105 dollars... the only thing I could find was 200+, for example... that's now ~100 deductible on my taxes).

What's really happening here is you are being paid out the full personalized envelope and the taxes are being deducted at source. So now you pay the full mortgage penalty up front, and can deduct it all in tax season. The dollar effect is technically no different, same thing as the RRSP (having deposited directly in an RRSP vs depositing it yourself), but now the member has to foot the bill until their tax return..... and how many are not going to realize just what they can claim on their taxes?


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## SupersonicMax (28 Nov 2017)

Can you cash out the cash card and use your own credit card instead?  I really like acruing points...


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## McG (28 Nov 2017)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Looks like this might be related:


No.  That is something different.  It is retroactive changes to posting allowances based on the recent retroactive pay increase.

The stuff in this thread is about changes in how IRP will be administered going into the future.


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## Lumber (28 Nov 2017)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Can you cash out the cash card and use your own credit card instead?  I really like acruing points...



I hear there's a bodega around the corner that'll exchange 'em for cash...


----------



## SupersonicMax (28 Nov 2017)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I hear there a bodega around the corner that'll exchange 'em for cash...



I have to say, I don't understand the reasoning for the card, other than the government saving a few bucks on ATM fees and bank fees when exchanging currencies... 

Why not just advance the money to the members (like it is already done)?


----------



## dapaterson (28 Nov 2017)

Simpler and less expensive, presumably.


----------



## SupersonicMax (28 Nov 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Simpler and less expensive, presumably.



We still need to do the claim process, we are stuck with one more card, I don't see how it is simpler for the member.  Advance and claims into my bank account directly are far simpler for most...


----------



## exgunnertdo (29 Nov 2017)

As someone currently on an OUTCAN, I don't see the cash card working for us, I don't believe they can issue something like that in Canada that will be compatible here. We will need to use our own credit card/cash when we leave here in 2020. We can use the cash card on the HHT back to Canada, but for expenses here it won't work. It will be worse for people moving here - they'll have an HHT with no cash card (hotel, meals, rental, rental search agent), then several weeks in a hotel here waiting for their furniture (we were 4 weeks in a hotel), rental car waiting for the POMV to arrive (6 weeks for us), before the HHT claim is settled (our HHT claim was settled after we arrived here, same for the other families that arrived this APS). That's a ton of money to expect the member to cover on their own with no advance. OUTCAN moves take forever to settle - we received our HG&E mid August, our claim wasn't settled until mid November. Without a big advance, we'd have been paying 2 months interest on a big balance on our credit card. 

So it sounds like anything that comes out of personalized, we'd have to fund those out of our own pockets (ie not on the cash card), then the payout of the personalized funds will come on our pay later? Or will it be possible to advance on the posting allowance/personalized envelope? We used our personalized funds for two big items - extended HHT and pet shipment, both a much bigger factor in an OUTCAN move. 

Put those two things together, posting season will be tight on the credit card/bank account for families going or coming from OUTCAN.


----------



## JesseWZ (29 Nov 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Simpler and less expensive, presumably.



When has anything to do with pay and benefits been changed so the net effect ended up being "simpler and less expensive..."

*cough* Phoenix *cough*


----------



## Eye In The Sky (29 Nov 2017)

ballz said:
			
		

> What's really happening here is you are being paid out the full personalized envelope and the taxes are being deducted at source. So now you pay the full mortgage penalty up front, and can deduct it all in tax season. The dollar effect is technically no different, same thing as the RRSP (having deposited directly in an RRSP vs depositing it yourself), but now the member has to foot the bill until their tax return..... and how many are not going to realize just what they can claim on their taxes?



Maybe it's early so I am not following...but the last time I was posted I had my Posting Allowance deposited directly into our spousal RRSP, so no tax deducted at source.  Now, I will get the PA minus taxes (somewhere around 50% would have been deducted if I had of taken it in cash)...how exactly am I still able to put my entire PA into a spousal RRSP if I only get half of it to start with.

 ???


----------



## kev994 (29 Nov 2017)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> When has anything to do with pay and benefits been changed so the net effect ended up being "simpler and less expensive..."
> 
> *cough* Phoenix *cough*


Simpler and less expensive for BGRS. I don’t think anyone is concerned with the member.


----------



## exgunnertdo (29 Nov 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Maybe it's early so I am not following...but the last time I was posted I had my Posting Allowance deposited directly into our spousal RRSP, so no tax deducted at source.  Now, I will get the PA minus taxes (somewhere around 50% would have been deducted if I had of taken it in cash)...how exactly am I still able to put my entire PA into a spousal RRSP if I only get half of it to start with.
> 
> ???



I guess...if your PA is $5000, they take $2.5K in tax, you can still put $5k into your RRSP, funding the $2.5K taken for tax out of your own resources (LOC?) then get the tax back, pay off the LOC? Cause that's easy, right? [/sarcasm]

PITA...stuff like this makes it seem like they think we have a pot of money just sitting to be used to bridge finance these things. 

As it is, we tried to roll ours into our Questrade self directed RRSP. BGRS had a conniption. They didn't understand. They wanted paperwork from Questrade that Questrade didn't know how to provide, BGRS was only used to dealing with banks and finance companies. We almost had to do what I outlined above, but eventually BGRS managed to get it sorted and move the money to Questrade.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (29 Nov 2017)

exgunnertdo said:
			
		

> I guess...if your PA is $5000, they take $2.5K in tax, you can still put $5k into your RRSP, funding the $2.5K taken for tax out of your own resources (LOC?) then get the tax back, pay off the LOC? Cause that's easy, right? [/sarcasm]



rly:

I guess, to me at least, the real questions are (1) who authorized them to move away from doing this and (2) WHY.


----------



## Lkjhgfdsa (29 Nov 2017)

exgunnertdo said:
			
		

> As someone currently on an OUTCAN, I don't see the cash card working for us, I don't believe they can issue something like that in Canada that will be compatible here. We will need to use our own credit card/cash when we leave here in 2020. We can use the cash card on the HHT back to Canada, but for expenses here it won't work. It will be worse for people moving here - they'll have an HHT with no cash card (hotel, meals, rental, rental search agent), then several weeks in a hotel here waiting for their furniture (we were 4 weeks in a hotel), rental car waiting for the POMV to arrive (6 weeks for us), before the HHT claim is settled (our HHT claim was settled after we arrived here, same for the other families that arrived this APS). That's a ton of money to expect the member to cover on their own with no advance. OUTCAN moves take forever to settle - we received our HG&E mid August, our claim wasn't settled until mid November. Without a big advance, we'd have been paying 2 months interest on a big balance on our credit card.
> 
> So it sounds like anything that comes out of personalized, we'd have to fund those out of our own pockets (ie not on the cash card), then the payout of the personalized funds will come on our pay later? Or will it be possible to advance on the posting allowance/personalized envelope? We used our personalized funds for two big items - extended HHT and pet shipment, both a much bigger factor in an OUTCAN move.
> 
> Put those two things together, posting season will be tight on the credit card/bank account for families going or coming from OUTCAN.


 The new chip cards will be accepted everywhere a MasterCard is accepted. Currency rates are accurate and the security is there too. 

https://www.bmo.com/main/personal/bank-accounts/banking-services/debit-mastercard-faqs




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## Furniture (29 Nov 2017)

think the cash cards would likely help new members who may not have a credit card that can support thousands of dollars in hotels, gas, tolls etc...  I know as a 19 year old Pte I didn't have a CC that I could have made my last move on comfortably.

My cynical side tells me it's a move to get away from mileage, meal allowances, etc. no need to just throw money at people when you can tell them to charge it to the company card. Nobody is spending the full meals or mileage when they are driving cross country, so instead of the troops pocketing the extra the government gets to keep the money. Throw in an oil change at the end of the move and I can see the government saying they have met their obligations. But that's just my cynical impression based on how things have been going lately.


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## Sub_Guy (29 Nov 2017)

WeatherdoG said:
			
		

> My cynical side tells me it's a move to get away from mileage, meal allowances, etc. no need to just throw money at people when you can tell them to charge it to the company card. Nobody is spending the full meals or mileage when they are driving cross country, so instead of the troops pocketing the extra the government gets to keep the money. Throw in an oil change at the end of the move and I can see the government saying they have met their obligations. But that's just my cynical impression based on how things have been going lately.



Solution.  Cash advance.


----------



## Furniture (29 Nov 2017)

My understanding is that the advances are going away and everything will be added to the card, which I'm sure will have very limiting conditions on it's use.


----------



## kev994 (29 Nov 2017)

WeatherdoG said:
			
		

> My understanding is that the advances are going away and everything will be added to the card, which I'm sure will have very limiting conditions on it's use.


How do I deposit the balance of the card into my bank account?


----------



## sidemount (29 Nov 2017)

Meal allowences arent changing so even if the member doesn't spend the entire meal expense, they should still be paid out that remaining money

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## sidemount (29 Nov 2017)

Either that or you just keep the card until the money is all gone?

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## exgunnertdo (29 Nov 2017)

kev994 said:
			
		

> How do I deposit the balance of the card into my bank account?


I imagine it will be reconciled a lot like it is now.

(Total claimable expenses) - (money spent on card) = claim paid 

Currently: (total claimable expenses) - (advances) = claim paid


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## dapaterson (29 Nov 2017)

CANFORGEN 206/17 CMP 107/17

SUBJ: CANADIAN ARMED FORCES RELOCATION PROGRAM (CAF RP)
REFS: A: CANFORGEN 070/16 CMP 035/16 221522Z APR 16
B: CANADIAN FORCES INTEGRATED RELOCATION PROGRAM (CFIRP) DIRECTIVE
1. REF A ANNOUNCED THE ARRIVAL OF THE CAF RP UPON THE EXPIRATION OF 
THE CURRENT IRP CONTRACT
2. IT WAS DETERMINED AFTER IN-DEPTH REVIEWS, CONSULTATIONS, AND 
SURVEY FEEDBACK THAT SERVICE COULD BE IMPROVED BY PROVIDING GREATER 
ACCESS TO THE INFORMATION WITH A MORE MODERN, INNOVATIVE SERVICE 
DELIVERY MODEL
3. THE NEW CAF RP MODEL, EFFECTIVE 1 DEC 17, WILL PROVIDE GREATER 
FLEXIBILITY AND INCREASED ACCESS TO RELOCATION INFORMATION THROUGH 
WEB-BASED TECHNOLOGY (OFF BASES/WINGS INTO LIVING ROOMS)
4. ALTHOUGH BASE/WING BGRS REPRESENTATION WILL CEASE 30 NOV 17, THE 
NEW MODEL WILL CONTINUE TO INCLUDE LIVE VIDEO (VIRTUAL FACE-TO-FACE) 
INTERACTION AND LIVE CHAT ON THE SECURE WEBSITE. IN ADDITION, THE 
SITE WILL OFFER INCREASED CONTROL AND ACCESS TO ALL RELOCATION 
INFORMATION 24/7 FROM ANY LOCATION WITH INTERNET ACCESS
5. BENEFITS OUTLINED IN REF B WILL REMAIN THE SAME. HOWEVER, 
ADVANCES TO COVER RELOCATION EXPENSES WILL BE LOADED ON TO A 
DECLINING BALANCE RELOCATION CASH CARD THAT WILL BE ISSUED TO THE 
MEMBER WITH THE FUNDS NEC TO CONDUCT THEIR RELOCATION. THE RELOCARD 
CAN BE THE CONDUIT TO PAY FOR THIRD PARTY SERVICE PROVIDERS (TPSP) 
SUCH AS APPRAISERS, HOME INSPECTORS, AND LAWYERS.  THE BALANCE 
REMAINING ON THE RELOCARD, AFTER RECEIPTS HAVE BEEN UPLOADED AND 
EXPENSES RECONCILED, CAN BE TRANSFERRED TO THE MEMBER S PERSONAL 
ACCOUNT. POSTING ALLOWANCE AND T4/RL1 WILL BE ISSUED CENTRALLY BY 
THE CAF
6. AS PER CANADAS DEFENCE POLICY STRONG, SECURE, ENGAGED, THIS NEW 
DELIVERY MODEL AIMS TO INCREASE FLEXIBILITY BY PROVIDING A 
MODERNIZED 24/7 WEB-BASED SVC DESIGNED TO GIVE CAF MEMBERS AND THEIR 
FAMILIES IMPROVED RELOCATION SERVICE TO MEET THEIR CURRENT AND 
FUTURE NEEDS


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## Sub_Guy (29 Nov 2017)

WeatherdoG said:
			
		

> My understanding is that the advances are going away and everything will be added to the card, which I'm sure will have very limiting conditions on it's use.



What I meant is, go to the bank machine and withdraw the funds.


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## Lkjhgfdsa (29 Nov 2017)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> CANFORGEN 206/17 CMP 107/17
> 
> SUBJ: CANADIAN ARMED FORCES RELOCATION PROGRAM (CAF RP)
> REFS: A: CANFORGEN 070/16 CMP 035/16 221522Z APR 16
> ...


Thanks for the share....That clears up a lot. Cash remaining on relocard is yours to do what you need to do. 


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## ballz (30 Nov 2017)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Maybe it's early so I am not following...



Nope, you are following exactly what I was saying correctly...



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Now, I will get the PA minus taxes (somewhere around 50% would have been deducted if I had of taken it in cash)...how exactly am I still able to put my entire PA into a spousal RRSP if I only get half of it to start with.
> 
> ???



Like I said,



			
				ballz said:
			
		

> The dollar effect is technically no different, same thing as the RRSP (having deposited directly in an RRSP vs depositing it yourself), *but now the member has to foot the bill until their tax return.....*



They are leaving it to the troops to figure out (aka fuck the troops, duh). I just wanted to make sure everyone is understanding from a tax perspective how this stuff works for their own personal tax planning purposes.



			
				exgunnertdo said:
			
		

> I guess...if your PA is $5000, they take $2.5K in tax, you can still put $5k into your RRSP, funding the $2.5K taken for tax out of your own resources (LOC?) then get the tax back, pay off the LOC? Cause that's easy, right? [/sarcasm]
> 
> PITA...stuff like this makes it seem like they think we have a pot of money just sitting to be used to bridge finance these things.



Indeed. It is an interest free loan for the government. Ironically enough, if *you* get an interest free loan from your employer, you have to pay income tax on the free interest you weren't charged (Imputed Interest Benefit)..... but your employer gets an interest free loan from you, most will even have to use a line of credit and pay interest on it, and doesn't owe you an extra dime. I hate the government.

One thing people can do to help mitigate the damage is don't take the pay-out of their remaining personalized funds until December... at least you'll save ~5 months of interest on whatever method of credit you are using to foot the RRSP bill... and save yourself a bit more interest expense by filing as soon as possible.


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## Lumber (30 Nov 2017)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> What I meant is, go to the bank machine and withdraw the funds.



I'm not quite certain it's going to work this way. But maybe?



			
				Lkjhgfdsa said:
			
		

> Thanks for the share....That clears up a lot. Cash remaining on relocard is yours to do what you need to do.



Yes, but when? It says:



> "THE BALANCE REMAINING ON THE RELOCARD, AFTER RECEIPTS HAVE BEEN UPLOADED AND EXPENSES RECONCILED, CAN BE TRANSFERRED TO THE MEMBER S PERSONAL ACCOUNT. POSTING ALLOWANCE AND T4/RL1 WILL BE ISSUED CENTRALLY BY THE CAF"



This leads me to believe that they won't transfer the remaining money off the card until after you have settled your final move claim.

What I'm curious about is, given it's a cash card, they really can't stop you from doing whatever you want with it, which I suppose is just like when they gave us a cash (Direct Deposit) advance. Example: they load my card with a $2000 advance, and I go and buy a new big screen tv from best buy.


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## Lkjhgfdsa (30 Nov 2017)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I'm not quite certain it's going to work this way. But maybe?
> 
> Yes, but when? It says:
> 
> ...


It’s strange they won’t transfer your PA to RRSp but will transfer funds on left over on your card. Still a transaction and the PA = RRSP is a better one if we got to choose one transaction I would choose that one. 

Oh man did I have a chuckle. I have wanted a new big screen for years and you make it sound so easy. 

Looks like you can do what ever you want with it according to the only article I found about declining reloadable debut cards. Even cash machine aka ATM can be used. 

Member gets card loaded = member goes to bank, empty’s account and puts in his\her personal account. Fini 

https://www.fibank.bg/en/non-declining-balance-credit-cards/page/1079#our-offer




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## Schifty (9 Jan 2018)

Hi all,

            I'm from Valcartier and actually i'm on parental leave until July. I will be post next summer and i know since the 30th november, Brookfield is no more in charge of any posting. So i have no acces to DWAN and i want to know if any CANFORGEN was release about how now posting will be working.

My wife saw on facebook about we receive money and we do ourself our moving. Its true ?


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## Pusser (9 Jan 2018)

The text of the CANFORGEN is below.  I'm not sure Brookfield is actually gone, but they are going to deliver services differently than they have in the past (largely via internet) and instead of sending advances to your bank account, they will load money onto a cash card.

CANFORGEN 206/17 CMP 107/17 152207Z NOV 17

CANADIAN ARMED FORCES RELOCATION PROGRAM (CAF RP)

UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A: CANFORGEN 070/16 CMP 035/16 221522Z APR 16 
 B: CANADIAN FORCES INTEGRATED RELOCATION PROGRAM (CFIRP) DIRECTIVE 


1. REF A ANNOUNCED THE ARRIVAL OF THE CAF RP UPON THE EXPIRATION OF THE CURRENT IRP CONTRACT 


2. IT WAS DETERMINED AFTER IN-DEPTH REVIEWS, CONSULTATIONS, AND SURVEY FEEDBACK THAT SERVICE COULD BE IMPROVED BY PROVIDING GREATER ACCESS TO THE INFORMATION WITH A MORE MODERN, INNOVATIVE SERVICE DELIVERY MODEL 


3. THE NEW CAF RP MODEL, EFFECTIVE 1 DEC 17, WILL PROVIDE GREATER FLEXIBILITY AND INCREASED ACCESS TO RELOCATION INFORMATION THROUGH WEB-BASED TECHNOLOGY (OFF BASES/WINGS INTO LIVING ROOMS) 


4. ALTHOUGH BASE/WING BGRS REPRESENTATION WILL CEASE 30 NOV 17, THE NEW MODEL WILL CONTINUE TO INCLUDE LIVE VIDEO (VIRTUAL FACE-TO-FACE) INTERACTION AND LIVE CHAT ON THE SECURE WEBSITE. IN ADDITION, THE SITE WILL OFFER INCREASED CONTROL AND ACCESS TO ALL RELOCATION INFORMATION 24/7 FROM ANY LOCATION WITH INTERNET ACCESS 


5. BENEFITS OUTLINED IN REF B WILL REMAIN THE SAME. HOWEVER, ADVANCES TO COVER RELOCATION EXPENSES WILL BE LOADED ON TO A DECLINING BALANCE RELOCATION CASH CARD THAT WILL BE ISSUED TO THE MEMBER WITH THE FUNDS NEC TO CONDUCT THEIR RELOCATION. THE RELOCARD CAN BE THE CONDUIT TO PAY FOR THIRD PARTY SERVICE PROVIDERS (TPSP) SUCH AS APPRAISERS, HOME INSPECTORS, AND LAWYERS. THE BALANCE REMAINING ON THE RELOCARD, AFTER RECEIPTS HAVE BEEN UPLOADED AND EXPENSES RECONCILED, CAN BE TRANSFERRED TO THE MEMBER S PERSONAL ACCOUNT. POSTING ALLOWANCE AND T4/RL1 WILL BE ISSUED CENTRALLY BY THE CAF 


6. AS PER CANADA�S DEFENCE POLICY STRONG, SECURE, ENGAGED, THIS NEW DELIVERY MODEL AIMS TO INCREASE FLEXIBILITY BY PROVIDING A MODERNIZED 24/7 WEB-BASED SVC DESIGNED TO GIVE CAF MEMBERS AND THEIR FAMILIES IMPROVED RELOCATION SERVICE TO MEET THEIR CURRENT AND FUTURE NEEDS 

CANFORGEN 206/17 CMP 107/17 152207Z NOV 17

PROGRAMME DE REINSTALLATION DES FORCES ARMEES CANADIENNES (PR FAC)

UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A: CANFORGEN 070/16 CMP 035/16 221522Z APR 16 
 B: DIRECTIVE DU PROGRAMME DE REINSTALLATION INTEGREE DES FORCES CANADIENNES (PRIFC) 


1. LA REF A ANNONCAIT L ARRIVEE DU PR FAC DES L EXPIRATION DU CONTRAT ACTUEL DU PRI 


2. IL A ETE ETABLI APRES DES EXAMENS APPROFONDIS, DES CONSULTATIONS ET DES ENQUETES QU ON AMELIORERAIT LE SERVICE EN FOURNISSANT UN MEILLEUR ACCES A L INFORMATION A L AIDE D UN MODELE DE PRESTATION DES SERVICES INNOVATEUR 


3. LE NOUVEAU MODELE DU PR FAC, QUI ENTRERA EN VIGUEUR LE 1ER DECEMBRE 2017, SERA PLUS SOUPLE ET AMELIORERA L ACCES A L INFORMATION DE REINSTALLATION A L AIDE D UNE TECHNOLOGIE DE TYPE WEB (L INFOFORMATION SERA SORTIE DES BASES/ESCADRES ET ACCESSIBLE DE LA MAISON) 


4. BIEN QUE LA REPRESENTATION DE BGRS DANS LES BASES/ESCADRES PRENDRA FIN LE 30 NOVEMBRE 2017, LE NOUVEAU MODELE COMPRENDRA TOUJOURS DES REUNIONS VIRTUELLES EN PERSONNE ET DES SEANCES DE CLAVARDAGE SUR LE SITE WEB SECURISE. DE PLUS, LE SITE OFFRIRA UN CONTROLE ACCRU DE L INFORMATION SUR LA REINSTALLATION DE MEME QU UN ACCES AMELIORE A CETTE INFORMATION, 24 HEURES SUR 24, 7 JOURS SUR 7, PARTOUT OU L ACCES INTERNET EST OFFERT 


5. LES AVANTAGES PRESENTES A LA REF B DEMEURERONT LES MEMES. TOUTEFOIS, LES AVANCES VISANT A COUVRIR LES DEPENSES DE REINSTALLATION SERONT FOURNIES A L AIDE D UNE CARTE PREPAYEE DE REINSTALLATION A SOLDE DEGRESSIF QUI SERA REMISE AU MILITAIRE AVEC LES FONDS NECESSAIRES A LA REINSTALLATION. CETTE RELOCARD PEUT SERVIR A PAYER LES TIERS FOURNISSEURS DE SERVICES (TFS), COMME LES EVALUATEURS, LES INSPECTEURS D HABITATION ET LES AVOCATS. LE SOLDE RESTANT SUR LA CARTE, APRES CHARGEMENT DES RECUS ET RAPPROCHEMENT DES DEPENSES, PEUT ETRE TRANSFERE AU COMPTE PERSONNEL DU MILITAIRE. L INDEMNITE D AFFECTATION ET LES RELEVES T4/RL1 SERONT PRODUITS DE FACON CENTRALISEE PAR LES FAC 


6. CONFORMEMENT A LA POLITIQUE DE DEFENSE DU CANADA PROTECTION, SECURITE, ENGAGEMENT, CE NOUVEAU MODELE DE PRESTATION VISE UNE SOUPLESSE ACCRUE A L AIDE D UN SERVICE SUR LE WEB OFFERT 24 HEURES SUR 24, 7 JOURS SUR 7 ET CONCU POUR DONNER AUX MILITAIRES ET A LEURS FAMILLES UN SERVICE DE REINSTALLATION AMELIORE QUI REPOND A LEURS BESOINS ACTUELS ET FUTURS


----------



## Schifty (9 Jan 2018)

Thanks!


----------



## kratz (20 Jan 2018)

APS 2018 has not begun yet, but CMs are already posting people prior to the end of the FY. 
One comment I read on Facebook, is 400+ files have been added to the BRGS site.

I'm going through a move now as well. 
Most benefits have not changed from the old system. The largest adjustment has been we do everything, IAW CAF policy.
If you don' read, follow or pay attention to details a member can easily get jammed up on this new system.

Please post your experience here, to help others as the posting system evolves.


----------



## ballz (20 Jan 2018)

Lkjhgfdsa said:
			
		

> It’s strange they won’t transfer your PA to RRSp but will transfer funds on left over on your card. Still a transaction and the PA = RRSP is a better one if we got to choose one transaction I would choose that one.
> 
> Oh man did I have a chuckle. I have wanted a new big screen for years and you make it sound so easy.
> 
> ...



And then gets a gigantic tax bill come tax season for all of the things that didn't qualify as a moving expense.


----------



## garb811 (20 Jan 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> APS 2018 has not begun yet, but CMs are already posting people prior to the end of the FY.
> One comment I read on Facebook, is 400+ files have been added to the BRGS site.
> 
> I'm going through a move now as well.
> ...


I would suspect most of that 400 are pers graduating and coming off the BTL.  We had a QL3 course grad right before Christmas who were in the new system.  So far, feed back is mostly "system is working" but there have been one or two problems.  

Timelines for short notice moves are looking to be the biggest issue.  Up to 5 days after the message is cut for you to be entered into Brookfield's system.  Up to 7 days for your card to be loaded and dropped in the mail.  After that, how long Canada Post takes to get it to you is a crap shoot.  Counter that to my experience on my last move where I asked for an advance one day, it was approved the next and 2-3 days later money was in my bank.  

Shouldn't be a huge issue for a normal move but in cases where there is less time than normal, say a QL3 course which is normally only getting posting messages 2-3 weeks out from grad or those cases where everyone involved is trying to get a member somewhere ASAP, this could become a real problem.


----------



## kratz (20 Jan 2018)

Garb811,

The promised timeline, as mentioned is 17 working days on a slow season (one month), from message to action.

It took BGRS 7 working days to acknowledge our message and enter it in the system.
We are not part of the assumed BTL.


----------



## jollyjacktar (21 Jan 2018)

They should never have taken moves out of in-house delivery via the BOR.  Things keep sliding from bad to worse as far as Admin matters go since the cuts of the 90s started.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (21 Jan 2018)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> They should never have taken moves out of in-house delivery via the BOR.  Things keep sliding from bad to worse as far as Admin matters go since the cuts of the 90s started.



Now hold on there  rly:.  Didn't you read the CANFORGEN?  That old way of being able to, you know, talk to people face to face at the base you work at is being replaced with an _INNOVATIVE SERVICE DELIVERY MODEL_.

Time to get off the pity potty and join the program!

 ;D


----------



## jollyjacktar (21 Jan 2018)

I know, I know, I'm soooo old fashioned, wanting to deal with Fin/Adm Clerks instead of the civilian computer of the day.  

 :tempertantrum:


----------



## kratz (1 Feb 2018)

[quote author=garb81]
<snip>  Up to 7 days for your card to be loaded and dropped in the mail.  After that, how long Canada Post takes to get it to you is a crap shoot.  <snip>
[/quote]

Our "Reloc" Visa card arrived in the mail on time, but with no money. The way the system is supposed to work:

- Up to 5 working days to mail the card, no funds to prevent theft / fraud,
- Once the card arrives, you must activate the card on the bank's website,
- Next you need to confirm receipt of the card on the BGRS portal before you can request advances,
- Book your HHT
- The portal will not allow a request for funds to be loaded onto the card until 21 days in advance of the expense (HHT, move).
- Once advance is requested through the portal, wait another 5 business days for the funds to appear on the card.


----------



## jollyjacktar (1 Feb 2018)

Jesus wept, what a rigmarole.   :


----------



## Lkjhgfdsa (3 Feb 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> - Book your HHT


How did flight bookings go? Did you need a TIN for all family members ?


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## kratz (3 Feb 2018)

I'm happy to answer what we've experienced:

- The military member must the HHT_DIT application for the COC's approval, and 
- Upload it to the BHRS portal, before any HHT (or DIT) will be actioned.
- The military member must use the HRG portal and create a profile for each dependant, 
in order for a TIN to be issued for each individual.
- Within 48 hours of the TINs generation, we had our e-tickets and car rental confirmed,
including any special notes inputted in the BGRS portal by the member
(ie: child car seats with rental, pet care, disability issues).

I hope this helps.


----------



## kratz (14 Feb 2018)

This morning I received an email regarding a meeting from CF IRP Coordinators this month.
Some of the highlight points include:

- Contrary to the contract, BRGS Coordinators are not answering questions, redirecting members to CF IRP Coordinators
   or insisting members search policies for answers,
- The 1 Dec 17 IRP change is a change is *Service Delivery, not in Policy*,
- BGRS will assist the member with the F&E form, and Traffic Tech will book the van line,
- Posting Allowance and Relocation Allowance deposited on COS date via CCPS centrally not by local ORs, 
- One T4 will be issued for all salary and relocation benefits, and
- At the start of the month:  978 moves are under the new system (309 pending and 678 registered)


----------



## Zoomie (24 Feb 2018)

Policy remains in place from 2014/15.  

Interest rate buy down for mortgage still in policy - BGRS just will no longer administer that section of policy.  So it’s up to you to transfer the funds out of personalized to your lawyer who will send to your bank??


----------



## dimsum (28 Feb 2018)

Saw this on social media today and not really filling me with confidence - at least I'm not getting posted this year.  



> Letter to my local MP:
> 
> Sir,
> 
> ...



https://www.facebook.com/strembiski/posts/10160223995880226


----------



## dapaterson (28 Feb 2018)

Or you could read the instructions and learn how to get an advance or reimbursement via Electronic Funds Transfer instead of taking a cash advance.  But if you and a Major combined can't find the Welcome Booklet after 16 hours (link #8 on the "BGRS Canadian Forces" page at https://www.irp-pri.com/start/cf_members/), then maybe there are deeper issues at play...

https://www.irp-pri.com/docs/start/cf/WelcomeBookletEnglish.pdf


----------



## Zoomie (1 Mar 2018)

To be fair - those links are to the 2017 Welcome Booklet and do not reflect the new changes in service.


----------



## Pusser (1 Mar 2018)

I'm curious about the service charges mentioned in the letter.  These were certainly reimbursable in the past.  If this is a change in delivery, not policy, has somebody missed something?


----------



## high_octane (1 Mar 2018)

> 3.4.01 Automated Teller Machine
> Core benefit
> CF members may be reimbursed additional ATM charges above their normal monthly fee for one transaction per day when related to the relocation.



She did mention that one ATM fee is claimable per day. So you have to withdraw $500 per day and upload all the ATM receipts.

From what I've read BGRS won't EFT money directly to personal bank accounts anymore. This is part of the "change in delivery"

Where I currently live many people still insist on cash or cheque. A house appraiser, inspector, contractor, agent etc doesn't carry a portable card reader here.

Sounds like a business tactic to skim 1.5% off all relocation expenses.


----------



## dapaterson (1 Mar 2018)

My understanding is that the problems are being examined at the highest levels, and solutions identified.  I know that the launch was in Dec to find and fix problems before the bow wave of APS.


----------



## Lumber (2 Mar 2018)

As far as I've heard, third party service providers are still able to register with Brookfield and bill them directly.

So as long as you go with third party service providers that are registered with Brookfield, you shouldn't have to worry about weather they accept credit card or only take cash.

During my last move, the home appraiser, home inspector, lawyers and realtors all billed Brookfield directly. The only ones I had to pay cash were the house cleaning service and lawn maintenance company (I had to carry two mortgages for a couple of months).


----------



## kratz (2 Mar 2018)

We are on our HHT now. 

Reading the new policy, third part provider are to start billing CAF transferees directly, effective Dec 1st.

We had to pay our Realtor directly. He couldn't bill BGRS anymore.


----------



## Lumber (2 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> We are on our HHT now.
> 
> Reading the new policy, third part provider are to start billing CAF transferees directly, effective Dec 1st.
> 
> We had to pay our Realtor directly. He couldn't bill BGRS anymore.



Well... I'm a little less excited now about the posting message I received just this morning.

This is f***ed, excuse my Portuguese. Why would they expect us to shill out that kind of cash when there was a perfectly good working system in the past?

I get taking away the BGRS advisors and moving to an online/mobile system. I don't get why they would take away a tried and tested billing system that doesn't even need the face-to-face advisors.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (2 Mar 2018)

I will never, ever, ever pay a $225 fee on behave of the GoC/CAF if I get posted because there is a service charge.  Ever.

Maybe some people should be telling their CofCs that, unfortunately, they cannot proceed on their posting because it will cause them undue financial hardship, and do you have a qualified Assisting Member you can recommend for me to decide if I should proceed with a redress of grievance please?


----------



## Eagle_Eye_View (2 Mar 2018)

The Ombudsman is coming for a visit to Winnipeg in 2 weeks. Senior members are already talking about the hiccups with the new policy. I'm sure someone will raise the issue during the townhall.


----------



## stellarpanther (3 Mar 2018)

So after eagerly waiting for my posting message, I unexpectedly received it today, about a month earlier than I thought.  Then, a friend told me about all these new issues and now the excitement about a new posting has lead to a bit of confusion that I'm hoping will work itself out as soon as I can register in a week or so I guess.

My families plan is basically going to be to take a DIT sometime in May so the only expenses for now would be flights that will be taken care of for me after I register them with HRG, then I provide Brookfield with their TIN's.  They book the flights for all of us as well as the rental car at destination.  I use the Relo card to pay for the rental car, hotel and meals as well as taxi's to/from airport and boardig for cat while we're away.

Will it be this easy?  What am I forgetting about?


----------



## stellarpanther (3 Mar 2018)

When creating a TIN for dependants, do I just go to the HRG site and create a profile for them the same way as would be done for DND employees?  What do we put when it asks for "Full Company name" right at the beginning?


----------



## kratz (3 Mar 2018)

Stellarpanther,

Be careful when paying for any service that normally puts a hold on a credit card (ie: pay gas at the pump, hotel check-in and car rental)
Vendors who release the hold(s) on the card can't return the funds, because the pre-paid Reloc card does not have that function.

Note: HRG booked our car rental wit Hertz. At the airport, on our HHT, the car rental company denied the Reloc card, for the deposit / hold,
because it is a pre-paid card and not a normal credit card. So if you don't ave a personal CC for your DIT/HHT, your transportation options are severely limited.

Yes, use the HRG site to create their profiles and generate their TINs. Similar to when you created your own profile.


----------



## kev994 (3 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> Stellarpanther,
> 
> Be careful when paying for any service that normally puts a hold on a credit card (ie: pay gas at the pump, hotel check-in and car rental)
> Vendors who release the hold(s) on the card can't return the funds, because the pre-paid Reloc card does not have that function.
> ...


So the alleged benefit of the member not having this on their personal card doesn’t actually work? Awesome.


----------



## armyvern (3 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> Stellarpanther,
> 
> Be careful when paying for any service that normally puts a hold on a credit card (ie: pay gas at the pump, hotel check-in and car rental)
> Vendors who release the hold(s) on the card can't return the funds, because the pre-paid Reloc card does not have that function.
> ...



There are/were some Ptes in travel who had hotels also deny them use of the reloc card for the same reason.  When used for the actual payment methods for the hotel, the hotel, too, charged them a surcharge over their rate due to the nature of the reloc card not being an actual debit card or credit card. Apparently _that_ surcharge also is not claimable (IE:  That's what your movement grant is for - since freakin' when!!??)

Also heard of a case where a Pte travelling on HHT from QL3s failed to receive his advance in time for the trip.  Being unable to afford the costs of hotels & meals for his family from his own pocket/credit card, he requested a re-booking of the flights for the trip etc until after BGRS actually deposited his advance and was berated and told he'd now be responsible to pay them (IIRC, it was around the $365.00 mark) a "service charge" per ticket.  Their error, yet his responsibility to pay this non-claimable/reimbursable expense.  I'm beginning to get the impression the BGRS is about to make a killing off of posted service members who are supposed to have their mandatory moves totally paid for.


I can only imagine the angst that a brand new Pte is feeling dealing with the chaos that is their first move where they don't have a schmick as to what their entitlements are and how to appropriately handle the situation / make contact for immediate resolution when things go to shit.

Not acceptable.


----------



## jollyjacktar (3 Mar 2018)

Whomever was the bright spark that came up with this change needs to have some serious karma payback come to visit them.


----------



## stellarpanther (3 Mar 2018)

So can I just use my personal credit card to pay for the hotel and car rental, gas etc and just go to an ATM to get cash off the relo card to pay my own card?


----------



## armyvern (3 Mar 2018)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> So can I just use my personal credit card to pay for the hotel and car rental, gas etc and just go to an ATM to get cash off the relo card to pay my own card?



Technically, yes. But, this just serves to highlight the absolute idiocy of the _supposed benefits, efficiencies and modernism_ of the new way.  You also realize that if you gas up and pay for a hotel from your own personal account/credit card on the same day, that under this "new" way that only one of those user-fees you incur on your personal debit/CCard is claimable/reimbursable per day and something tells me that you'll also incur a 3rd user-fee on the cash debit you take from the reloc card to re-imburse yourself. Three separate fees incurred, only one is re-imburasable.


----------



## kratz (3 Mar 2018)

Yes,

You could use your own CC for all payments, but here are the problems when withdrawing all the funds from the Reloc card for cash:
- $400 max per withdrawl,
- $2500 daily max withdrawl,
- ATM fee for the Reloc card + bank fee for each withdrawl, and
- 15 withdrawls max lifetime for the card, then it permanently locks.


----------



## armyvern (3 Mar 2018)

Perhaps every single member who is posted should be doing up an invoice(s) to submit to BGRS for their clocked billable hours doing their own bookings, scheduling, research, form submissions, transfers, phone calls, scanning, documentation, time taken towards fixing the errors, and seperate service charges to BGRS for doing their jobs for them each time they need to log in, upload, file a receipt into their wallet, etc etc etc.


----------



## stellarpanther (3 Mar 2018)

So this does suck.  I just received my posting message yesterday so haven't registered yet therefore I haven't seen the entitlements etc, but I believe with myself and 2 dependants I am entitled to 2 rooms. 

$300x4+ $1200.00
$102x 3 pers x 5 days for meals + $510.00
car rental approx. $250.00

Total: $1960.00.

If I can only take $400 per day in cash advances, I need to run to the bank every day for a week just to get my money.  This is stupid.  Why can they not just calculate the approximate cost of the DIT or HHT and do a direct deposit into the persons account.  

If hotels and car rental companies don't readily accept this stupid card then I don't see the point of it.


----------



## stellarpanther (3 Mar 2018)

Ok, I missed the part that said max $2500.00 per day but only $400.00 each time.  Maybe I'll have a different opinion once I actually start this process but right now it seems stupid.


----------



## kev994 (3 Mar 2018)

My guess is that the point is they no longer have to pay loss on exchange because you could have used a card that nobody accepts. 

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk


----------



## kratz (3 Mar 2018)

Another new wrinkle in the move process, we discovered late yesterday.

- After the HHT / DIT, the move form is not on the BGRS portal.
- The member must know to request it be emailed to them by their BGRS representative,
- Who is required to action this request within 24 - 48 business hours.
- That movement form is submitted to Base Transport, who will arrange for the moving company.

When this change was introduced, we were led to belive everything needed was on the website. Now we discover a key form is missing, and there is nothing informing members that they must request it from BRGS. We went to Base TN and they redirected us to BGRS. Yeah for running around.


----------



## SeaKingTacco (3 Mar 2018)

So glad to be a reservist now...


----------



## PPCLI Guy (3 Mar 2018)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Whomever was the bright spark that came up with this change needs to have some serious karma payback come to visit them.



Just post the fucker.  Every year.  For 12 years.  

If that is deemed to be too extreme, do the 13 moves in 25 years that my wife and I have done (3 of them OUTCAN).

Not that I am bitter.


----------



## OldSolduer (3 Mar 2018)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> So glad to be a reservist now...



Retirement is wonderful.  The policies seem to be somewhat .... difficult to comprehend. Someone remind me why Traffic Techs et al don’t do this anymore?


----------



## Ostrozac (4 Mar 2018)

So, strictly hypothetically, if you were to pay all or most of your move expenses out of your own cash and credit card, and ended your move with something like $50,000 remaining on the relocard (which has a max cash advance of $7500) what happens then? Can you continue to use the relocard for random expenses, groceries, liquor, buy a motorcycle, or is a cheque cut? In the old days, you'd be theoretically able to refuse an advance and collect everything on your claim at the end as a direct transfer to your bank account, but that seems that option might be off the table.

Asking for a friend, of course.


----------



## RubberTree (4 Mar 2018)

Ostrozac said:
			
		

> So, strictly hypothetically, if you were to pay all or most of your move expenses out of your own cash and credit card, and ended your move with something like $50,000 remaining on the relocard (which has a max cash advance of $7500) what happens then? Can you continue to use the relocard for random expenses, groceries, liquor, buy a motorcycle, or is a cheque cut? In the old days, you'd be theoretically able to refuse an advance and collect everything on your claim at the end as a direct transfer to your bank account, but that seems that option might be off the table.
> 
> Asking for a friend, of course.



That's what I'm trying to figure out as well...my understanding is that you can continue using the card as a visa until it expires OR you can take the remainder deposited into your bank account as a DFT...for a 1.5%  surcharge. 
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...someone....please tell me I'm wrong.


----------



## kratz (4 Mar 2018)

We just attempted to pay for our hotel....both the "Visa" and debit would not work for the hotel's payment system. We had to use our personal debit card and must now use 3/15 cash withdrawals to reimburse ourselves.

Thankfully, the car rental agency accepted the card for payment.

IMO the card is turning into a "food only" card. From our experience.


----------



## kev994 (4 Mar 2018)

Once you get back from your HHT and finalize that claim can’t you get the funds transferred to you bank account?


----------



## kratz (4 Mar 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> Once you get back from your HHT and finalize that claim can’t you get the funds transferred to you bank account?



There's nothing on the BGRS portal that offers a DFT of finalized funds option.  We haven't asked our representative yet. I've only posted first hand experience.


----------



## stellarpanther (4 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> We just attempted to pay for our hotel....both the "Visa" and debit would not work for the hotel's payment system. We had to use our personal debit card and must now use 3/15 cash withdrawals to reimburse ourselves.
> 
> Thankfully, the car rental agency accepted the card for payment.
> 
> IMO the card is turning into a "food only" card. From our experience.



If you don't mind me asking, what car rental company did you use? I may try to use the same company. Also, I assume then that the car company doesn't put a hold on extra fees.  I thought I read something that those fees wouldn't be able to get put on the card again since it's a cash card


----------



## kratz (4 Mar 2018)

Reply # 71, page 3 of this thread.

BGRS books the car rental agency. For our HHT, it was Hertz and at the airport counter, the company would not accept the BGRS Visa Reloc card because it's a pre-paid card. We had to use our personal CC for the deposit / hold.


----------



## stellarpanther (4 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> Reply # 71, page 3 of this thread.
> 
> BGRS books the car rental agency. For our HHT, it was Hertz and at the airport counter, the company would not accept the BGRS Visa Reloc card because it's a pre-paid card. We had to use our personal CC for the deposit / hold.


So just to clarify, you only had to use your personal credit card to hold the room when you made the reservation which I'm assuming is still done by the mbr and then when paying, we can use the reloc card?


----------



## kev994 (4 Mar 2018)

Keep in mind that if you plan to use your cc for insurance it will only work if you use it to rent and pay.


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## stellarpanther (4 Mar 2018)

It's been a while since I had a posting so I don't remember how this worked before either but does BGRS book only the flight and making the car reservation and then the mbr can call any hotel they want to make a reservation or does BGRS do that also?


----------



## Zoomie (4 Mar 2018)

Hotel booking is all you.  HRG will book flights and car (if you want).


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## kratz (4 Mar 2018)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Perhaps every single member who is posted should be doing up an invoice(s) to submit to BGRS for their clocked billable hours doing their own bookings, scheduling, research, form submissions, transfers, phone calls, scanning, documentation, time taken towards fixing the errors, and seperate service charges to BGRS for doing their jobs for them each time they need to log in, upload, file a receipt into their wallet, etc etc etc.



I just finished 5 hours of printing, scanning, uploading, sorting, processing ect...to finalize three claims from our HHT. I like the suggestion for billing BRGS for our work on their behalf.


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## dangerboy (4 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> I just finished 5 hours of printing, scanning, uploading, sorting, processing ect...to finalize three claims from our HHT. I like the suggestion for billing BRGS for our work on their behalf.



I keep on hoping that they will discover digital signatures, printing off documents and scanning is such a pain in today's age.


----------



## Sf2 (5 Mar 2018)

-  Received Posting Msg 28 Feb - msg itself is dated 28 Feb.
-  Tried registering on BGRS today - 5 March.  It accepted my file.
-  Only glitch - the I AM NOT A BOT widget during registration doesn't work on DWAN IE.  Switched to Chrome and it worked.

Something I'm a bit unclear about at this point:  Is there an additional step to initiate the posting allowance thing with DRBM or does it happen automatically when I register on BGRS?


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## AirDet (5 Mar 2018)

Reading all this crap makes me happy this is my retirement posting. The last system was already a disaster and now they've made it even worse. Remember when we used to have Admin Clerks that actually took care of us?


----------



## kratz (5 Mar 2018)

AirDet said:
			
		

> Reading all this crap makes me happy this is my retirement posting. The last system was already a disaster and now they've made it even worse. Remember when we used to have Admin Clerks that actually took care of us?



Don't need / want clerks until....I will stop here.


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## Lil_T (5 Mar 2018)

All - for the move, you should be able to download a DND 483 from the DFC on the dwan. I'm literally 2 weeks into this move process and i'm sick of it already.


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## stellarpanther (5 Mar 2018)

I haven't registered yet so I haven't been able to see all the regulations.   Can someone here tell me if I'm allowed 1 or 2 hotel rooms for our DIT.  It will be my wife and I plus our16 year old son.


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## RubberTree (5 Mar 2018)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> I haven't registered yet so I haven't been able to see all the regulations.   Can someone here tell me if I'm allowed 1 or 2 hotel rooms for our DIT.  It will be my wife and I plus our16 year old son.



The answer you are looking for is in the relocation directive available online without registration.
In short, your are entitled to 2 rooms.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/assets/FORCES_Internet/docs/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/relocation-directive-2009-2015.pdf


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## jollyjacktar (5 Mar 2018)

Shouldn't that be "relocation defective"?


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## stellarpanther (5 Mar 2018)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Shouldn't that be "relocation defective"?



I'm actually looking at it now and it is 2 rooms but the last one I can find online is APS 14/15.  I can't imagine it would have changed.  Does anyone have a new version they can post?


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## kratz (5 Mar 2018)

[quote author=stellarpanthe]
I'm actually looking at it now and it is 2 rooms but the last one I can find online is APS 14/15.  I can't imagine it would have changed.  Does anyone have a new  current version they can post?
[/quote]

FTFFY 
The current version linked to the BGRS  site is IRP Guide 2015


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## kev994 (5 Mar 2018)

Can you get cashback off this card? I’m thinking pull $100 every time you stop at Walmart?


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## stellarpanther (5 Mar 2018)

Section 4.2 Planning
4.2.01 Timing
The HHT is to be taken after official notification of posting (for Regular Force)/employment message (for Reserve Force) and normally before COS date (for Regular Force)/commencement date of the period of employment (for Reserve Force). If accommodation has been secured prior to posting notification (for Regular Force)/employment message (for Reserve Force), entitlement is only for a DIT.

This is the policy:

Section 4.2 Planning
4.2.01 Timing
The HHT is to be taken after official notification of posting (for Regular Force)/employment message (for Reserve Force) and normally before COS date (for Regular Force)/commencement date of the period of employment (for Reserve Force). If accommodation has been secured prior to posting notification (for Regular Force)/employment message (for Reserve Force), entitlement is only for a DIT.


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## Lkjhgfdsa (5 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> I just finished 5 hours of printing, scanning, uploading, sorting, processing ect...to finalize three claims from our HHT. I like the suggestion for billing BRGS for our work on their behalf.


At least give admin days to and update CFLPM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pusser (6 Mar 2018)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> I'm actually looking at it now and it is 2 rooms but the last one I can find online is APS 14/15.  I can't imagine it would have changed.  Does anyone have a new version they can post?



Are you thinking DIT or HHT?  Similar concept, different rules.  Only ONE person travels on a DIT (you OR your spouse), so you only get ONE hotel room.  

Remember, you're not looking for a place on a DIT.  You're only inspecting a place you already own are have been assigned (e.g. a PMQ).  In effect, all you're doing is making sure everything is in order, or as I did on my last one, determine what repairs had to be made before my F&E showed up.


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## Lumber (6 Mar 2018)

To all of those currently undergoing a move (i.e. Kratz), please keep this thread alive and keep posting about your experience. I'm going to be getting started with my move soon, and the more experience you can share the better it will be for the rest of us. Thanks in advance, I will try and do the same when my turn comes around (HHT in May is my plan).


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## kratz (6 Mar 2018)

We submitted:
- Two claims from our HHT and are waiting for BGRS approval to reimburse our out of pocket expenses, 
- Once approved, waiting for the funds to arrive on the "food card"  Reloc Visa, 
- The CF483: Application to Move F & E emailed yesterday, and
- Movers called to book the house pre-inspection next week.

With the exception of the "food card"  Reloc Visa, the system seems to be working well enough.
The other issues are valid, but not insurmountable.


----------



## stellarpanther (6 Mar 2018)

I was able to register today and start the process (receivved message last Friday).  I think the biggest issue will be learning the system.  I upload my current rental agreement today so hopefully I did that right.

Will my reloc card automatically get mailed out to me?


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## stellarpanther (6 Mar 2018)

So I was just surprised at how easy it was to reach a BGRS agent to have all my questions answered. I was only on hold for about 2 minutes at the most.

1. relo card will be sent in approx 5 business days from the time you complete the registraton.

2. we are entitled to 2 hotel rooms for wife and I and son, or book a double room and get $50 per day extra to my personal envelope.

3. can only submit HHT/DIT request within 21 days of your requested time.

4. can request an advance prior to even receiving the card in the mail.  I'm a bit surprised by that because they would be giving you money for something that isn't even approved yet but who knows, maybe she does know her job.

5. car/hotel reservation can be booked on your own or through HRG


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## kev994 (6 Mar 2018)

What about the personalized envelope? If the posting allowance is being paid out by the BOR is the personalized envelope empty/useless?


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## kratz (6 Mar 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> What about the personalized envelope? If the posting allowance is being paid out by the BOR is the personalized envelope empty/useless?



I don't know.

To answer your question, I just reviewed our profile on the BGRS portal and the only item for the Personalized Envelope is the $650 Movement Grant.
Nothing is listed about the posting allowance. We are still attempting to figure out how to claim bank fees, driver abstracts and Canada post mail forwarding...all items that have been previously claimable on CF moves.


----------



## stellarpanther (6 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> I don't know.
> 
> To answer your question, I just reviewed our profile on the BGRS portal and the only item for the Personalized Envelope is the $650 Movement Grant.
> Nothing is listed about the posting allowance. We are still attempting to figure out how to claim bank fees, driver abstracts and Canada post mail forwarding...all items that have been previously claimable on CF moves.



I can't see anything for abstracts but I'm wondering if the receipt just needs to be uploaded and it would come out of the core like the other drivers stuff.  I'm thinking if they receive it, they'll sort out where it should come out of.  I may be too trusting of them though. lol


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## kratz (6 Mar 2018)

It's easy, simple to upload the receipts...the challenge is attempting to assign the expense based on the limited options available.

[quote author=stellarpanther] I may be too trusting of them though. lol  [/quote]

BGRS is already behind on trust and losing ground daily.


----------



## Sf2 (7 Mar 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> What about the personalized envelope? If the posting allowance is being paid out by the BOR is the personalized envelope empty/useless?



1)  I thought the posting allowance was paid out by DRBM in Ottawa?  Not the BOR - just want to ensure clarity.  With this regard, I've seen that the posting allowance is issued on COS date automatically - but is there anything we need to do to touch base with that office?  Or by doing the BRGS registration, we are now in the queue to get it?  With that said, I can only assume the personalized folder will account for expenses not covered by core and custom.  Therefore your final posting allowance may shrink based on expenses incurred before your COS date.

2)  I'm a bit unclear how the RELOC card works exactly.  I assumed it just came pre-loaded with the funds you need for the move then you're off to the races.  Not true?  You can either:
a)  Request advance and funds loaded onto card - then submit claim to confirm the expenses; or
b)  Pay out of pocket, submit claim, funds loaded on card to be withdrawn in cash to be transferred to personal accounts

Did I get that right?

Finally, my own questions: 
1)  I'm posted between to proximate bases where I plan to POMV everything.  Do I still need to register my family for TIN numbers with HRG?
2)  I read somewhere else to go ahead and request an advance on the $650 grant right away, as no follow up claim is required.  But I can't find the Admin category (its place in that category on the general page) on the Advance Request section to do it.  *EDIT* - I misread the tip - you don't request an advance, instead you submit a claim - and it shows up as one of the options.


----------



## captloadie (7 Mar 2018)

Has anyone asked if they will even be paying out amounts that are tagged to your personal envelope? I can see them just saying that x item is funded out of your Personal envelope, so because you were issued the entire amount, pay for the expense out of that.


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## Lumber (7 Mar 2018)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Finally, my own questions:
> 1)  I'm posted between to proximate bases where I plan to POMV everything.  Do I still need to register my family for TIN numbers with HRG?



I can help here.

TIN's are only needed when booking through HRG. If you aren't booking flights, through HRG (usually only flights), you don't need a TIN. You can book trains and hotels through HRG as well, but you get a better discount on Trains if you book directly with VIA rail, so DON'T use HRG to book a train.

Second, be careful about taking POMV. Verify that the distance between your two bases is no more than 650km. For your HHT/DIT, you're only entitled to 1 day of travel, which means a max of 650km. Should it be greater than 650km, you'll need to ensure that the extra travel day is either on a weekend, or on a day of annual/stat leave. I'd also be careful in ensuring that Brookfield is aware of your intent to drive POMV so theyh don't accidentally book you a flight when you put your HHT application in.


----------



## AirDet (7 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> Don't need / want clerks until....I will stop here.


Well, I can only offer my personal experience and they always treated me well. I understand others have had different experiences.


----------



## Quirky (7 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I can help here.
> 
> Second, be careful about taking POMV. Verify that the distance between your two bases is no more than 650km. For your HHT/DIT, you're only entitled to 1 day of travel, which means a max of 650km. Should it be greater than 650km, you'll need to ensure that the extra travel day is either on a weekend, or on a day of annual/stat leave. I'd also be careful in ensuring that Brookfield is aware of your intent to drive POMV so theyh don't accidentally book you a flight when you put your HHT application in.



Can you not just use a rental vehicle for your HHT if you are within a days (~600km) driving distance?


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## Lumber (7 Mar 2018)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Can you not just use a rental vehicle for your HHT if you are within a days (~600km) driving distance?



It's all about overall cost. If the two bases are REALLY close, then:



> Where the old and new places of duty are in close proximity, CF members may travel back and forth each day, while on HHT or DIT. They are on duty status during this time, therefore CO’s approval, even for weekend travel, is required.
> Reimbursement shall not exceed the cost and time provided for one standard HHT or DIT. Extra transportation costs are offset by the elimination of any accommodation costs at the new location.



But if they aren't THAT close, but close enough to drive, then:



> Entitlements are to be reimbursed as per section 3.3 based on the following:
> Core benefit
> • transportation to and from the commercial carrier;
> • rental vehicle;
> ...



The bit in yellow. 



> 4.5.03 Local transportation
> 
> If you are using PMV you will be reimbursd the kilometric allowance (not to exceed rental vehicle costs including the Collision Damage Waiver/Loss Damage Waiver, if required).



Finally:



> 4.5.04 Rental vehicle
> There is no entitlement to local rental vehicle when PMV is the primary mode of transportation _*and*_ additional expenses are claimed.


(*I believe this clause only comes into play if "additional expenses are claimed", which comes from para 4.5.0.1.)

Based on all this, I would say you can do either of two things:

1. Rent a vehicle, drive it to the HHT, and use it on the HHT; or
2. Drive your POMV to the HHT location, and _then_ rent a vehicle for use during the HHT.

In either case, if the total cost of doing so is less than or equal to the "preferred/most-economical" method (i.e. fly and rent a car), then it _should _be approved.


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## Sf2 (7 Mar 2018)

Thanks for that.  I'm going from Pet to Kingston.  Sorry for the questions, but this is my first local posting where I didn't fly to my hht.  

Understood the pmv mileage is given up to max of rental cost for travel in between.   But what about in  location during the house hunting?   If I'm in a rental and get gas, I keep the receipt.  But the directive talks about mileage again for pmv (4.5.03).  So no gas receipts if I use the pmv?


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## Lkjhgfdsa (7 Mar 2018)

I thought there was no change to to policy. Just to how the service is delivered. Why are there so many questions about paying out the personal envelope and worries that members won’t get posting allowances or paid out meals and incidentals. This card really is not a good idea. People have a great complaint. The money is on the card and not everyone takes the card. We should be able to opt out of the reloc card. Submit expenses via claims  and get reimbursed - advance if taken. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stellarpanther (7 Mar 2018)

SF2 said:
			
		

> Thanks for that.  I'm going from Pet to Kingston.  Sorry for the questions, but this is my first local posting where I didn't fly to my hht.
> 
> Understood the pmv mileage is given up to max of rental cost for travel in between.   But what about in  location during the house hunting?   If I'm in a rental and get gas, I keep the receipt.  But the directive talks about mileage again for pmv (4.5.03).  So no gas receipts if I use the pmv?



I asked BGRS this question last night.  The answer I received was that since my move isn't very far I can either fly since there is an airport here and there or I can use my PMV or get a rental car here to drive to the HHT location.  If I use PMV, I will only get paid for the actual mileage or from here to HHT location not gas while I driving around.  If I get a rental I can submit all of my gas receipts.  I thought about flying but it would actually take longer to fly than to drive.  I'm surprised we have the option to fly for such a short distance although I knew someone who flew from Montreal to Ottawa for an HHT and got a rental while here.


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## sidemount (7 Mar 2018)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> I asked BGRS this question last night.  The answer I received was that since my move isn't very far I can either fly since there is an airport here and there or I can use my PMV or get a rental car here to drive to the HHT location.  If I use PMV, I will only get paid for the actual mileage or from here to HHT location not gas while I driving around.  If I get a rental I can submit all of my gas receipts.  I thought about flying but it would actually take longer to fly than to drive.  I'm surprised we have the option to fly for such a short distance although I knew someone who flew from Montreal to Ottawa for an HHT and got a rental while here.



I'm kind of surprised by this. When I was posted from Pet to Kingston in 2015 I used my PMV for the HHT and was paid for the calculated mileage to get to Kingston, and then I submitted the mileage I used (not gas receipts) for the time in the city actually doing the house hunt. This was the direct instructions from the Brookfield agent in Pet. 

I thought the policy was unchanged?


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## Lumber (7 Mar 2018)

If you are using your POMV for local travel during your HHT, you should be able to claim that mileage.


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## stellarpanther (8 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> If you are using your POMV for local travel during your HHT, you should be able to claim that mileage.


I would have thought so but when someone at work told me I would only be able to claim to and from destination and not the gas I use once there, I called.  BGRS told me the same thing.


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## StillGoingStrong (8 Mar 2018)

Below is from the Relocation Directive. It says you can use your PMV for Local Transportation BUT it cannot exceed the cost that would have been for approved commercial rental.


4.5.03 Local transportation
Entitlements are to be reimbursed as per section 3.3. (see below)

Core benefit
Local transportation is based on a maximum vehicle rental of:
seven days on a standard HHT; or
five days on a standard DIT.

If you are using PMV you will be reimbursed the kilometric allowance (not to exceed rental vehicle costs including the Collision Damage Waiver/Loss Damage Waiver, if required).
If you are using commercial transportation you will be reimbursed actual and reasonable transportation expenses.

Custom benefit
Nil.

Personalized benefit
Actual transportation expenses (supported by gas receipts) if using a PMV or commercial transportation as described in Core above for the period on extended HHT.

3.3.01 Allowance and kilometric rate for travel
The kilometric allowance shall be based on the approved commercial software Promiles and will be calculated using the applicable km rate multiplied by the distance traveled using the travel rates as published by Treasury Board as follows:

PMV – kilometric rate for passenger vehicles
Motorcycle – 60% of kilometric rate
Trailer – 50% of the kilometric rate

3.3.02 Rental vehicle
The size of the rental vehicle is based on family size.


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## Lumber (8 Mar 2018)

I never really understood the point of the personalized envelope.

First, the total amount of the personalized envelope can be calculated earlier on, and it doesn't change.

Second, anything you don't use in the personalized envelope gets paid out in cash at the end.

So, why have items in the IRP that only receive funding from personalized envelope?

Pet care, for example, is only reimbursable form the personalized envelope, for example... that does;t make sense. If it's $300 for a week of pet care while I'm on my HHT, I can either pay it out of my own pocket, keep that $300 dollars in the envelope, and receive that $300 when I cash out the envelope; or, I can get BGRS to pay for the pet care, not incur the $300 expense myself, but receive $300 less when I cash out the envelope. 

The net amount is exactly the same, so why mention that they can be paid by the envelope at all?


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## stellarpanther (8 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I never really understood the point of the personalized envelope.
> 
> First, the total amount of the personalized envelope can be calculated earlier on, and it doesn't change.
> 
> ...



I can be a bit thick sometimes so I want to make sure I completely understand this.  The $650 that is in my personalized envelope is my movement grant that would be coming to me regardless.  When I put the cat in the kennel for a week, it's going to come out of that envelope?  That means I'm paying for it basically myself? Why say pet care is claimable and waste my time sending them receipts etc?


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## Strike (8 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I never really understood the point of the personalized envelope.
> 
> First, the total amount of the personalized envelope can be calculated earlier on, and it doesn't change.
> 
> ...



I may be wrong, but it might be best to use the personalized envelope instead of waiting for the cash at the end because anything claimed on the move is not taxed.  But any cash you receive at the end is taxed.  So the result is, if you just wait for the cash at the end, you're going to get less.

This is what I remember from WAAAAAAYYYYY back when IRP first came about and anything we received from them wasn't taxed.  I was told to keep every one of my receipts so that I could claim it on my income tax and get a large amount back.  All this does with entering the receipts and having the money refunded is make less work for you come tax time, because you don't have to worry about individually including each tax receipt.  It's already been done and sorted through the program.


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## kratz (8 Mar 2018)

Strike has the right idea with the personalized amounts.

The IRP Directive outlines the personalized envelope:
- $650 movement grant: no receipts required, and
- Full month's gross pay
- Real Estate incentive 
- LTS incentive and
- HHT savings 

Quoted directly from the IRP directive:


> Personalized benefit to be used when all custom funds have been expended



Personally, with nearly 50% of the posting allowance taxed before deposited into my account, I'd rather spend the money on approved expenses for the personalized envelope, instead of giving the money to CRA.


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## CountDC (8 Mar 2018)

Some things from my moves:

rental vehicle HHT - was only claimable at location of move so you have transport to travel around and see the places you are considering to buy/rent.  Gas was claimable also.

PMV HHT - paid mileage rate only.

Rental Veh Move - not claimable.

PMV Move - paid mileage.  Travel time is based on 500kms a day.  So 4500 kms gives you 9 days to get there. 

Hotels - rates based on directory.  Rooms based on family make up so best to look it up or ask.  For example a couple with 2 children may be entitled to 2 or 3 rooms depending on children age and sex.

Personal Envelope - covers certain claimable expenses only if you do not take the cash from it up front.  Best to wait until the end and take the left over amount.  If you take it all up front it is all taxed as income where as anything paid on a claim is not taxed.

My last move was all done via online and emails.  The system worked great once I explored around the site.


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## stellarpanther (12 Mar 2018)

So far I've registered and completed what stuff asked in the dashboard with the exception of confirming that I received the reloc card (haven't received it yet).

- not going till May but CO has signed HHT application.
- someone told me I can only submit HHT application with in 21 days of it's start time.
- is there anything I need to do until then or do I just wait?
- after completing HHT, do I inform BGRS of new address and then sumit the movement form that also goes to F&E to arrange the move?
- how do I know when my pack, load, move date will be.  COS date is 16 Jul and I don't expect any changes so am I correct that my pack, load, move would be 11,12 and 13 Jul?


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## dapaterson (12 Mar 2018)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> So far I've registered and completed what stuff asked in the dashboard with the exception of confirming that I received the reloc card (haven't received it yet).
> 
> - not going till May but CO has signed HHT application.
> - someone told me I can only submit HHT application with in 21 days of it's start time.
> ...



Don't forget - gaining and losing COs can agree to a shift of COS date, so pack, load, move may shift.


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## kratz (13 Mar 2018)

stellarpanther,

Please be careful with the terms you choose to use. This is what causes some of the confusion and incorrect information being passed around.

[quote author=stellarpanther]
So far I've registered and completed what stuff asked in the dashboard with the exception of confirming that I received the reloc card (haven't received it yet).[/quote]

- Your card should arrive 5 business days after registering on the BGRS portal. (example Reregistered March 12, card in your mailbox  March 19).
   *- PRO TIP 1:* keep a written record of all actions and estimate forward when results are expected. Follow-up with BGRS and COC if there are any delays.



> - not going till May but CO has signed HHT application.



- Once signed and approved by CO;  scan and enter your HHT application immediately.



> - someone told me I can only submit HHT application  advance(s)   within 21 days of it's start time.



- Fixed the correct term to use, for the advice you were offered. The BGRS portal will not allow any advance request to be attempted until 21 days prior to the approved travel. The travel must be entered into the system to generate the travel dates.



> - is there anything I need to do until then or do I just wait?



- This answer depends. No matter if you are renting or selling/buying there are more steps at this point you need to research, gather firm prices quotes (all in totals, with taxes) for car rental, gas estimate, hotel ect...down to the penny. 
- Confirm the TPSPs you will be using on your HHT and their costs.
- You can draft  advances anytime. 
    * - PRO TIP 2:* Use the comment section of the advance to justify the amount you are requesting. If you don't do this, BGRS will arbitrarily reduce the advance amount before approval, without warning or appeal. Your only recourse is to submit an additional claim, justifying the additional anticipated expenses.
    - example: Asks for $6000 for HHT without justification, and BGRS reduces the advance to $2500 without justification. Sure, a 2nd request can be made, approval within 2 business days, normally. Then another 5 business days for the new funds to be loaded into the card.
    - example 2: Justification in the comments section - Car rental $238.57 for the week, Clarion Hotel $1454.75 for 5 nights, Parking at airport $298.08, Parking at hotel $230.10 for week, Bridge tolls $12, Meals for HHT $2500 , Gas $160, TPSP Reatal Search Agent $805 (taxes incl), $650 Movement Grant= $6348.50 advance requested.  
      * - PRO TIP 3:*  Movement Grant is only paid as a claim, never as an advance. Nothing in the portal, or IRP guide mentions this distinction. BGRS will reduce the second example advance request to $5698.50 due to this. Causing delays and confusion for the member.
- If selling your current home, choose your TPSP and get it listed as soon as you're registered on BGRS. This will be important in some real estate markets.
   * - PRO TIP 4:* Various local Agents continue to encourage CAF members to agree to pay more than the BGRS contract percentage reimbursed by the contract. If you choose to pay that higher percentage, it's out of your own pocket. Sadly, in some markets that appears to be the way it is.
- Advances are generally approved within two business days of submitting them. Expect to see the funds on the Reloc card five business days after that.
   * - PRO TIP 5:* TPSP vendors and hotels are the two biggest groups who are not accepting the Reloc card. Pick the date you need the cash to pay a bill and count backwards by the $400 limit per withdrawal. Using the above agent example $805, will force 3 ATM withdrawals and the fees for those withdrawals.  BGRS will only reimburse ATM fees once per day, and NOT their own fee....
- The BGRS ATM fee exclusion is going to be a Grievance nightmare. So it will take 3 days to gather the cash required to pay the agent on time. Same idea for hotel, ect...
- Remember: 15 cash withdrawals maximum for the lifetime of the Reloc card. Unlimited debit / credit transactions. In the above example: for hotel and TPSP a member would require 6 / 15 transactions for the cash over 6 days for the HHT. BGRS charges $3 each, plus varying ATM fees, for example $2 = $30 worth of fees, but members will only be reimbursed $12 of those dollars, if they withdraw once per day. 



> - after completing HHT, do I inform BGRS of new address and then sumit the movement form that also goes to F&E to arrange the move?



- After the HHT, all receipts need to be scanned, photo images ect...and uploaded to the BGRS portal. Your lease agreement (Renting) or purchase documents must also be uploaded. This process will inform BGRS of your new address.
- After uploading the receipts, they must all be linked to claim(s) you raise through the BGRS portal. Sadly, there is no deadline for BGRS to finalize these claims. Having earlier requested advances close to 100% of the value of the claim(s) will assist in this not being a problem for members.
- Form CF483: Application of Move of F&E is supposed to be on the BGRS portal and their staff are required by the contract to assist members in filling it out. This is the form required by Base Transport to book your move dates.
 * - PRO TIP 6:*We were forced to send a message through the BGRS portal to our agent. He responded within two business days with a copy of the form to be fill out. It's useless to ask for it from Transport, as they redirect us to the portal. Within 1 day of submitting the form, our move pre-inspection was booked.
- Use the days before your move to draft your TNL and ILMM advance requests. Follow the above advice from PRO TIP 2. The 21 day limit will apply again. If you are within those 21 days, yes...you can submit the advance request immediately.



> - how do I know when my pack, load, move date will be.  COS date is 16 Jul and I don't expect any changes so am I correct that my pack, load, move would be 11,12 and 13 Jul?



- As dapaterson mentions dates might be shifted slightly when both COs agree otherwise the information on your posting message, COS and the CF 483 form (box # 6) will determine the answers for your pack, load, move dates.
- Based on what you've provided as an example. Normally,  DSR (date service required) also known as load date would be July 12. Making your pack day July 11, and if you need your pre-pack day July 10. This leaves July 13 as your clean and clear the property day. 
- Normally, packing, loading, moving is not done on weekends or stat holidays, unless all parties agree to it.

I hope this is of some help for the coming APS.


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## sidemount (13 Mar 2018)

So if tpsp are not taking the preloaded visa how does one go about paying something like realtor fees when your house sells. They can be in the 10s of thousands of dollars?

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Strike (13 Mar 2018)

sidemount said:
			
		

> So if tpsp are not taking the preloaded visa how does one go about paying something like realtor fees when your house sells. They can be in the 10s of thousands of dollars?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk



Wouldn't the lawyers handle that through the bank?  Especially since they are usually the ones to hold on to the deposit as well?


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## sidemount (13 Mar 2018)

Strike said:
			
		

> Wouldn't the lawyers handle that through the bank?  Especially since they are usually the ones to hold on to the deposit as well?



In all honesty I don't know. When I did my IRP move 3 years ago everyone just billed Brookfield directly so I was unaware of who handled what funds. I know my realtors needed my number from Brookfield so I just assumed they billed directly.


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## sidemount (13 Mar 2018)

I'm happy my posting isn't until the end of September this year....everyone else can sort out the BGRS mess and I get all the ins and outs before having to move haha.


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## RubberTree (14 Mar 2018)

Excuse the sidebar...
I'm trying to create an accurate cost estimate for my HHT. I have a daughter who is under 2 years old. I can't find anything that says she gets less than the full meal rate...yet it seems ridiculous for her to get the full meal rate. Am I missing something?
Thanks, 
RT


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## Lkjhgfdsa (14 Mar 2018)

This card needs to be optional for the members best interest. Requesting an advance and not being able to access it is ridiculous. Option to DFT to personal account should still be an option. “The policy didn’t change just the delivery “ well why are we given a card we can’t use or it locks after we use it 15 times for currency ( plus the card fees are not covered more then once a day)


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## Zoomie (14 Mar 2018)

RubberTree said:
			
		

> I have a daughter who is under 2 years old. I can't find anything that says she gets less than the full meal rate..


She gets the full rate - it used to be 50% for children under 12, but that was stopped circa 2015.


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## Lumber (14 Mar 2018)

I think I've said it before but I'm going to say it again.

I fully understand why they went to an online/mobile app service model, but I DO NOT understand why they got rid of the ability for TPSPs to bill Brookfield directly. That system was already a behind the scenes system, why change it?


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## TCM621 (14 Mar 2018)

Lkjhgfdsa said:
			
		

> This card needs to be optional for the members best interest. Requesting an advance and not being able to access it is ridiculous. Option to DFT to personal account should still be an option. “The policy didn’t change just the delivery “ well why are we given a card we can’t use or it locks after we use it 15 times for currency ( plus the card fees are not covered more then once a day)



So can we or can we not request a cash advance like in years past?


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## kratz (14 Mar 2018)

[quote author=Tcm621
So can we or can we not request a cash advance like in years past?
[/quote]

Answer: No.
Not like in past years. 

The only means advertised for accessing cash is ATM withdrawals via the BGRS Reloc card...and all the extra fees forced upon members due to that only option.


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## newwifey (15 Mar 2018)

Director Relocation Business Management was on MyVoice (on facebook) answering questions about the changes to the CAF Relocation Program.  There may be more answers there if you're interested.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MyVoiceMaVoix/


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## Strike (15 Mar 2018)

Ref who pays the lawyers, just doing my paperwork now for a sale outside of the system.

I gave a blank cheque to the lawyers handling the sale and am filling out a "Direction to Pay" form, which authorizes them to pay the realtor commissions the closing of the mortgage and their own fees (about $1,000).  It will also arrange the difference in property taxes and the final balance to me.

So no worries about how the lawyers will be paid or the realtors.  The lawyers will take care of all of that.

Hope this helps.


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## Pusser (15 Mar 2018)

Strike said:
			
		

> I may be wrong, but it might be best to use the personalized envelope instead of waiting for the cash at the end because anything claimed on the move is not taxed.  But any cash you receive at the end is taxed.  So the result is, if you just wait for the cash at the end, you're going to get less.



Close, but not quite.  There are a number of typical moving expenses that are tax deductible, but are not specifically reimbursed by the Crown for a posting (e.g. telephone hook-up fees).  The Movement Grant is designed to cover these types of expenses, but if it's just an allowance, then it is taxable.  To make it non-taxable, you actually have to spend it on something tax-deductible.  By paying for things out of your personalized envelope, Brookfield takes care of all the tax issues for you (captured on a T4) and you don't have to worry about claiming it when you file your Income Tax.  However, not everything you may choose to pay for using your Personalized Envelope may actually be tax-deductible, so no, not everything you claim on your move will be tax-free.  Nevertheless, Brookfield takes care of all of this for you and you only have to ensure you include the T4 they issue when you do your taxes at the end of the year.

Interesting side note:  For decades prior to the establishment of the IRP, the CAF was actually in violation of the Income Tax Act in that we were issuing Movement Grants as tax-free allowances.  They should have been taxed and we should only have been able to get refunds by proving we actually spent them on tax-deductible items.

The bottom line is that in order to get the most benefit out of all of this is, you need to claim absolutely everything you can through Brookfield that is related to your move and wait until the very end to have your Personalized Envelope paid out.


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## high_octane (15 Mar 2018)

Strike said:
			
		

> So no worries about how the lawyers will be paid or the realtors.  The lawyers will take care of all of that.



A blank cheque doesn't really help me though if the funds are on a ReloCard. Do all lawyers accept pre-paid Visa that are swipe but have a chip but not a PIN and can't take holds?

Directorate Relocation Business Management on Facebook link above:
"All lawyers on the TPSP (Third Party Service Provider) directory should be accepting EFTs. Members can select any TPSP (must be at arm's length) but if a TPSP refuses to accept the new EFT will likely request a certified cheque or bank draft as they have in the past.



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> Brookfield takes care of all the tax issues for you (captured on a T4) and you don't have to worry about claiming it when you file your Income Tax.  However, not everything you may choose to pay for using your Personalized Envelope may actually be tax-deductible, so no, not everything you claim on your move will be tax-free.  Nevertheless, Brookfield takes care of all of this for you and you only have to ensure you include the T4 they issue when you do your taxes at the end of the year.



DRBM on Facebook:
"Because the contractor was being deemed, inaccurately, the members employer, the OAG (Office of the Auditor General) recommended that the contractor no longer pay the PA. That is why CAF has assumed this transaction. Members will now receive only one T4/RL1 vice one for salary and one for relocation."

"You are correct in that the PA is now provided after taxes into the members’ pay account. We are confirming but it appears that the federal government may have changed the mortgage buy-down rule and have removed it as a non-taxable benefit. Member can either take the PA after tax dollars and contribute to their RRSP and receive the refund on the income tax return (provides more flexibility – top up RRSP, service another debt, or spend as you like) or they can complete a form 1314 and once approved by CRA taxes will not be deducted at source."


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## Strike (16 Mar 2018)

high_octane said:
			
		

> A blank cheque doesn't really help me though if the funds are on a ReloCard. Do all lawyers accept pre-paid Visa that are swipe but have a chip but not a PIN and can't take holds?



So, the blank cheque is for them to make the deposit from whatever profits are made on your home (on the sell side).  What they will do is take whatever profits are made from the sale of your house to pay the realtor, yourself, and anyone on the other end, like the other lawyer at your destination.  Then they will deposit whatever is left into your account.  That's why they will have you sign an authority to pay, which outlines exactly who is getting how much.


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## kev994 (16 Mar 2018)

I think people are trying to figure out how to not pay the lawyer and realtor with their own money so they still have their 20% down payment at destination. Otherwise they will need to pay mortgage insurance, which IIRC hasn’t been covered for a couple years. From what I’ve been reading on the MyVoice Facebook page many TPSP don’t understand the form BGRS gives for EFT, it’s not that they don’t want to take it, it just makes no sense.


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## kratz (16 Mar 2018)

I received an email chain this morning from DGCB, regarding the BGRS contract and current issues reported with relocations, namely:

- ATM fees,
- card locking after 15 cash withdrawals, and
- OUTCAN difficulties using the card.

To paraphrase:



> The Centre has clearly heard members voice their displeasure and frustrations built into the current program. All involved in resolving the issues agree that members should not bear these costs or inconveniences of these restrictions. All levels are engaged to resolve the identified areas. If there is not a timely solution, DGCB is considering alternate options to mitigate this situation.
> 
> These changes are anticipated for this APS, and any new changes will be watched and are expected to "be good for all".



Sounds like those who have reported problems through their Chain of Command are being heard. Hopefully moves for the rest of the APS won't be so fearsome.


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## high_octane (16 Mar 2018)

Strike said:
			
		

> What they will do is take whatever profits are made from the sale of your house to pay the realtor, yourself, and anyone on the other end, like the other lawyer at your destination.  Then they will deposit whatever is left into your account.



Thanks. My realtor of nearly 40 years experience was also asking a lot of questions as there is a lot of rumors and they were used to being paid direct.

So the lawyer/realtor will take their cut off my sale and I already paid the appraiser myself because otherwise I would never be listed before HHTs roll in

So in the end I'm potentially going to have the 5 figures of realtor/lawyer fees on my ReloCard that I have to somehow withdraw at $500/day. Not to mention another potential 5 figures of HEA

DRBM on Facebook again:
"Based on OAG recommendations members’ financial information is not provided to BGRS and therefore *they are unable to provide EFT/DFT funds.*"

It's a good thing I have savings and credit available to buffer all this


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## Lumber (16 Mar 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> I think people are trying to figure out how to not pay the lawyer and realtor with their own money so they still have their 20% down payment at destination. Otherwise they will need to pay mortgage insurance, which IIRC hasn’t been covered for a couple years. From what I’ve been reading on the MyVoice Facebook page many TPSP don’t understand the form BGRS gives for EFT, it’s not that they don’t want to take it, it just makes no sense.



I just went looking (I was finally able to register): where do you find the EFT form of TPSPs?


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## kev994 (16 Mar 2018)

I haven’t made it that far yet, but I did learn the EFT still comes from your relo card balance so you need an advance first. 
You mean the video that says how great the system is provided no useful information?


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## sarahsmom (16 Mar 2018)

The pdf states that once you verify your funds, you fill in the info on the pdf and upload the document to your MSW in “Documents” under “Origin” and notify your BGRS Agent to complete the EFT.
It certainly does not look like an official form, but there it is!


----------



## stellarpanther (16 Mar 2018)

For those who've received the reloc card, how long did you have to wait?  I've been registered since 6 March but haven't received it yet.


----------



## rnkelly (16 Mar 2018)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> For those who've received the reloc card, how long did you have to wait?  I've been registered since 6 March but haven't received it yet.



Not to brag but I registered 2 March and still waiting.


----------



## kratz (17 Mar 2018)

[quote author=rnkelly]
Not to brag but I registered 2 March and still waiting.
[/quote]

On the 5th business day , did  you ask your BGRS agent where your card is?

Don't brag / bitch / complain if you don't do your own work.


----------



## rnkelly (17 Mar 2018)

Thanks for asking, I actually sent a query through the BGRS portal on the 8th business day and received a response (reasonably quickly to their credit) saying that they process the relocard after PRA completion within 5 business days but that the delivery is then dependant on Canada Post.  I’m not in that much of a rush to get it right now as I’m not incurring expenses but thought I’d add my anecdotal data because of stellarpanther’s post.  I guess my attempt at humour missed the mark...story of my life.


----------



## Lkjhgfdsa (17 Mar 2018)

paleomedic said:
			
		

> The pdf states that once you verify your funds, you fill in the info on the pdf and upload the document to your MSW in “Documents” under “Origin” and notify your BGRS Agent to complete the EFT.
> It certainly does not look like an official form, but there it is!


A similar form to EFT ourself would help in the interm while fees get sorted 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kratz (17 Mar 2018)

rnkelly,

I'm big enough to apologize. 

Too often people are quick to bash the system, without any effort in using it as designed *flaws and all*. 

The BGRS reply is a systematic "brush off".  You should keep your CoC informed, as this is "an issue beyond your control." That *may* affect your posting.


----------



## Sf2 (17 Mar 2018)

I think what is confusing about real estate fees is that (at least from what i'm seeing) - the funds aren't accounted for in the "budget" when you view them under finances.  Yes, there are legal fees shown to the tune of $500, all good there.  Request advance, pay lawyer with card or EFT- got it.

But I don't see budgeted funding for the real estate agent - so how do I pay him/her?  That amount is entirely dependant on the sale price of the home.  So once your house sells (or buy at destination), do you submit the sale agreement online then they allocate the funds to be loaded on the card?

That is really the only hole in the plan that I don't understand - everything else seems relatively intuitive.


----------



## Lumber (17 Mar 2018)

Kratz, where does the 1.5% service fee mentioned a while ago come into play? After registering and going through the site and documents etc., I didn't see mention of it?


----------



## kratz (17 Mar 2018)

[quote author=Lumber]
Kratz, where does the 1.5% service fee mentioned a while ago come into play? After registering and going through the site and documents etc., I didn't see mention of it?
[/quote]

I have avoided this, because I have no experience to answer the question. 
I do not want to spread or encourage uninformed rumour.

I try to post within my lanes.


----------



## Lumber (17 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> I have avoided this, because I have no experience to answer the question.
> I do not want to spread or encourage uninformed rumour.
> 
> I try to post within my lanes.



Ah: fair, fair.


----------



## Strike (18 Mar 2018)

SF2 said:
			
		

> I think what is confusing about real estate fees is that (at least from what i'm seeing) - the funds aren't accounted for in the "budget" when you view them under finances.  Yes, there are legal fees shown to the tune of $500, all good there.  Request advance, pay lawyer with card or EFT- got it.
> 
> But I don't see budgeted funding for the real estate agent - so how do I pay him/her?  That amount is entirely dependant on the sale price of the home.  So once your house sells (or buy at destination), do you submit the sale agreement online then they allocate the funds to be loaded on the card?
> 
> That is really the only hole in the plan that I don't understand - everything else seems relatively intuitive.



The realtor fees will likely be managed by your lawyer using the funds from the sale of the house if it''s handled in any way like on civvie side.  Given that this fee is supposed to be covered by the system, I can only assume that you would be reimbursed at the end of the claim.


----------



## Sf2 (18 Mar 2018)

If that's case, that sucks...since that was money otherwise going towards the down payment on the new home.  I've emailed bgrs to get the scoop.


----------



## armyvern (18 Mar 2018)

Strike said:
			
		

> The realtor fees will likely be managed by your lawyer using the funds from the sale of the house if it''s handled in any way like on civvie side.  Given that this fee is supposed to be covered by the system, I can only assume that you would be reimbursed at the end of the claim.



Well and good if one is selling a house and not just purchasing their first home.  If that's how it's to be done, then I sense it is our younger personnel who can least likely afford it, yet again, who will be disadvantaged the most by such a play at 'paying later'.


----------



## Lumber (19 Mar 2018)

SF2 said:
			
		

> If that's case, that sucks...since that was money otherwise going towards the down payment on the new home.  I've emailed bgrs to get the scoop.



I think you can get around this if you have a conversation between your lawyer and your realtor.

Explain to them that all benefits are supposed to be paid by either the relocard, or by EFT. So you have two options: 

1. Instead of the Lawyer transferring the real estate commission to the realtor, you establish in advance that the money will be transferred to the realtor by EFT using the provided forms, and direct that all of the equity goes to you.

or

2. Most lawyer's offices have point of sale terminals. Once your sale agreement is finalized, your lawyer can draw up the real estate commission, you request the funds be advanced to your relocard, and you "pay" the lawyers at your office. Once again, the lawyer takes THAT money and gives it to your realtor, and you keep all of the money from the house sale.


----------



## Lumber (20 Mar 2018)

I just got a response to some questions from my advisor that I will share (she got back to me within an hour!).

1. There is a 1.5% fee charged to your relocard for all EFTs. The minimum charge is a $30 , which is kind of BS when you consider that the approved cost of a Home Appraisal is around $400. So, if your home appraiser doesn't accept plastic for payment, you're actually paying a 7.5% fee to EFT him the money.

However! The fee is capped at $50. So if you're paying a big fee, like land transfer tax or real estate commission, you won't get dinged with a massive fee.

2. You CAN pay the lawyers the real estate commission using your relocard, and have THEM transfer real estate commission to your real estate agent.

3. The approve (read: reimbursable) real estate commission rate in Ontario in 3.7%. Lower than I expected. Hope my realtor doesn't ditch me now!


----------



## RubberTree (20 Mar 2018)

This statement located on the Military Family Services Facebook page... https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1692911444085316&id=562454950464310


----------



## sidemount (20 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I just got a response to some questions from my advisor that I will share (she got back to me within an hour!).
> 
> 1. There is a 1.5% fee charged to your relocard for all EFTs. The minimum charge is a $30 , which is kind of BS when you consider that the approved cost of a Home Appraisal is around $400. So, if your home appraiser doesn't accept plastic for payment, you're actually paying a 7.5% fee to EFT him the money.
> 
> ...



If the realtor is on the approved Third-party providers list from Brookfield or BGRS (whatever they call themselves) then they have already agreed to that commission rate. So it should not be an issue.


----------



## BeyondTheNow (20 Mar 2018)

RubberTree said:
			
		

> This statement located on the Military Family Services Facebook page... https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1692911444085316&id=562454950464310



Yes, seems to be hitting quite a few areas. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/comments/85urcj/statement_on_the_relocard/

As well as DWAN.



> Major-General Wayne D. Eyre Deputy Commander Military Personnel Command
> 
> As you are aware, our members have a number of concerns with the new CAF RP (Relocation Program) service delivery model – concerns shared by the senior leadership. Specifically, and for the most part, members are voicing their displeasure about the new BGRS ReloCard and the administrative fees that were not transparent when the contract was implemented. In addition, there are a number of unforeseen restrictions concerning how members can actually use the ReloCard. All of us agree that the member should not bear the cost of these new fees or the inconveniences of these restrictions and we are working with Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC), the Contract Authority, to address all of these issues.
> 
> ...



While all noted types of complications aren’t specifically addressed, it’s at least somewhat helpful to know that pers complaints/concerns have been noted and there’s at least some steps being taken to start rectifying the issues. Quite frankly, it seems like they’re trying to move quickly in getting things straightened out with this, rather than it still being months and months down the road without so much as a formal peep WRT complications with whatever the problems may have been surrounding a CAF-wide issue in the past.


----------



## Lumber (20 Mar 2018)

I'm actually very encouraged at the moment.

Considering that the max you can pay for an EFT is $50, and that cash withdrawal fees are only $1.50 per transactions, then we're not really losing out on a lot of money. On principle, it's wrong, but we're not really going to be hurt by it.

On the other hand, I'm highly worried about the stories on here that people cards are being declined by hotels.


----------



## kratz (20 Mar 2018)

The fees and hotels declining the card are real.

I have receipts showing between $1.5 to $3 to withdraw from an ATM, plus BGRS tacking on $3 to process the withdrawal.
If I max out our card's withdrawal limit, we can anticipate pay between $67.50 and $90.

Our next problem, it's been 4 weeks and our HHT claims are not finalized. BGRS has done nothing with the claims, and the outstanding funds.
Unless these announced changes happen this week, our move is proceeding under the current challenges this month.


----------



## Lumber (20 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> The fees and hotels declining the card are real.
> 
> I have receipts showing between $1.5 to $3 to withdraw from an ATM, plus BGRS tacking on $3 to process the withdrawal.
> If I max out our card's withdrawal limit, we can anticipate pay between $67.50 and $90.
> ...



The hotel declining is what I'm really worried about. Did you have issues at all hotels, or just some hotels?

As for the fees, if you have a spouse, then considering you get a full month's salary as a posting allowance, $650 in a moving grant, $208 a day in meals and incidents (during pack/load/clean, TLN, and Interim Lodging), land transfer tax covered, real estate commission coverered (that's $10k-$20k that civilian would never get), I'm really not worried about $90 in bank fees that I used to not have to pay for. On principle, yes, f*** you Brookfield; but am I worried? Not a bit.


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## stellarpanther (20 Mar 2018)

When I spoke to BGRS last night for a question about an advance, I also asked about the stories I'm hearing about hotels declining the card.  What the BGRS agent said to do was to book with your normal credit card but when you checkout tell them you want to pay with the BGRS card, the same with rental card.  Has anyone tried this to see if it will actually work?


----------



## kratz (20 Mar 2018)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> When I spoke to BGRS last night for a question about an advance, I also asked about the stories I'm hearing about hotels declining the card.  What the BGRS agent said to do was to book with your normal credit card but when you checkout tell them you want to pay with the BGRS card, the same with rental card.  Has anyone tried this to see if it will actually work?



We only stayed at one hotel for our HHT and did just as your BGRS agent suggested...result....declined. Both the CR and DR payments would not work.
During the TNL and ILM parts of our move, we are booked into three different hotels, and if next week's snowstorm goes as predicted, we'll be in a hotel longer than BGRS is willing to advance. We are bracing for these hotels to not accept the card either.

That missing $90 in fees is 92% of a day's net pay. We don't have a house to profit from. and relying on the Movement Grant to pay the cost is as bad as BGRS agents telling us to use it for their fees.


----------



## TCM621 (20 Mar 2018)

> Specifically, and for the most part, members are voicing their displeasure about the new BGRS ReloCard and _the administrative fees that were not transparent when the contract was implemented. In addition, there are a number of unforeseen restrictions_ concerning how members can actually use the ReloCard. All of us agree that the member should not bear the cost of these new fees or the inconveniences of these restrictions



The italicized part is the part that bothers me. Either the CAF and PSPC screwed up and didn't read the fine print or BGRS is in violation of their contract. Either option is unacceptable.


----------



## high_octane (20 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> We don't have a house to profit from.



Could always be worse, I'm hoping not to lose more than the the max $15k core HEA ($4k out of pocket in that case) assuming there's enough HHTs to sell to. Hopefully there's no surprise gotchas with delivery of HEA.


----------



## Lkjhgfdsa (21 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I'm actually very encouraged at the moment.
> 
> Considering that the max you can pay for an EFT is $50, and that cash withdrawal fees are only $1.50 per transactions, then we're not really losing out on a lot of money. On principle, it's wrong, but we're not really going to be hurt by it.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm highly worried about the stories on here that people cards are being declined by hotels.



I don’t mind paying fees but let me select a service and have options. Option 1 EFT to my personal bank account (no waiting for card in mail) 
Option 2 EFT to relocard !

If there is only one option it’s a real downer. 

Someone either has there hand in the honey jar or typical anal-ism about tracking what penny goes where and look how that is working out. 

Why the AJAG is concerned about BGrS having our bank info and paying us like employees is just embarrassing. We give out our financial info all the time. We lose bank cards and credit cards we may even fall into an online scam or two. Our banks have the fees built in to protect us. Insurance’s and more resources to keep our info safe. It’s just strange because I have never heard a soldier say bgrs shouldn’t have there bank info!


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## Sf2 (21 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> We only stayed at one hotel for our HHT and did just as your BGRS agent suggested...result....declined. Both the CR and DR payments would not work.
> During the TNL and ILM parts of our move, we are booked into three different hotels, and if next week's snowstorm goes as predicted, we'll be in a hotel longer than BGRS is willing to advance. We are bracing for these hotels to not accept the card either.
> 
> That missing $90 in fees is 92% of a day's net pay. We don't have a house to profit from. and relying on the Movement Grant to pay the cost is as bad as BGRS agents telling us to use it for their fees.



Hotel/rental car issues are laid out in the documentation that comes when you receive your card in the mail.  It suggests exactly what BGRS is saying because quite often pre-paid do not work well when you have to put a "hold" on the card to cover potential incidental expenses beyond the room rate.  The other issue is that people aren't putting enough advances on the card to cover the cost of the hotel + unforeseen incidentals - hence why it is getting declined.  You need to ensure there is enough balance on the card to cover the cost.  Now, this may not have been the case to many, as seen in this thread - and they're just flat out declined regardless.  I just got the card last night and we'll see how it goes (ps - registered on BGRS 5 March.  Received card March 20)


By the way, does anyone know how to conduct an online chat with your representative?  I don't see an option to do so on the Correspondence page.


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## kev994 (21 Mar 2018)

I can’t figure out how to do anything on the correspondence page, my advisor’s email address was listed there, I used that.


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## Lumber (21 Mar 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> I can’t figure out how to do anything on the correspondence page, my advisor’s email address was listed there, I used that.



That's what I did. I clicked on their email, it opened an new outlook email, I sent the email, they responded quite quickly.

Now, if only everything that she said wasn't being contradicted on facebook and on here...


----------



## RubberTree (21 Mar 2018)

This is an interesting development. Positive direction I think...


"As a follow on to our last update on the ReloCard’s issues and the associated fees, we have directed a short term solution. We will be returning to Electronic Fund Transfers (EFTs) directly into members’ bank accounts for all new requests for funds to cover relocation expenses, much the same as the previous model. This will happen within days – with details to be promulgated by the end of the week. 
As they have in the past, members banking information will have to be confirmed to ensure funding is accurately deposited. Members will continue to use the BGRS online service to make the request for funds. 
Members will be compensated for all fees related to the ReloCard. Please keep your receipts. More information about this process and the transition from the existing ReloCard will be released shortly, as the details are worked out. 
There are few things that we do in the Canadian Armed Forces that are more stressful on our families than relocations. We are committed to improving the relocation experience for our members and will continue to work with our partners to improve the service delivery model while concurrently modernizing our relocation benefits packages.

Major-General Wayne D. Eyre
Deputy Commander Military Personnel Command"

Can be found here:
https://m.facebook.com/milperscom/#!/story.php?story_fbid=2036814856598568&id=1845457419067647&__tn__=%2As%2As-R


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## TCM621 (21 Mar 2018)

RubberTree said:
			
		

> This is an interesting development. Positive direction I think...
> 
> 
> "As a follow on to our last update on the ReloCard’s issues and the associated fees, we have directed a short term solution. We will be returning to Electronic Fund Transfers (EFTs) directly into members’ bank accounts for all new requests for funds to cover relocation expenses, much the same as the previous model. This will happen within days – with details to be promulgated by the end of the week.
> ...



That is great but why the hell is this coming via Facebook? Perhaps an email blast on the DWAN or a message.


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## Lumber (21 Mar 2018)

Guys... We actually won. They actually listened and actually took real and immediate action.

Hats off to General Eyre!


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## sidemount (21 Mar 2018)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> That is great but why the hell is this coming via Facebook? Perhaps an email blast on the DWAN or a message.


Facebook is likely to been seen by most the fastest and will spread very quickly.

I'd expect to see a dwan email/canforgen about it in the near future.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## MJP (21 Mar 2018)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> That is great but why the hell is this coming via Facebook? Perhaps an email blast on the DWAN or a message.



Cause the service wife's club will pass info on faster than any CANFORGEN.


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## dapaterson (21 Mar 2018)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> That is great but why the hell is this coming via Facebook? Perhaps an email blast on the DWAN or a message.



Maybe he's working on other things, too, but doesn't want to wait to announce everything, and instead let people know about things in a timely manner.


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## Eagle_Eye_View (22 Mar 2018)

In this case, I believe it’s the best way to update members and their families wrt this issue. Using Facebook enables the non serving spouse/partner to be aware of the changes that might affect them. I’m glad the CoC dealt with this and found a solution.


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## Pusser (22 Mar 2018)

The email from MGen Eyre, which came our yesterday, is making the rounds now on DWAN.


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## kratz (22 Mar 2018)

Using a one-way channel like this assists members as well as family.

Any member who is signed out of the losing unit and has not reported to their gaining unit has no access to DWAN, message traffic or other official means, during their move. As Pusser noted, follow through with normal means  is still the official standard.


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## Eye In The Sky (22 Mar 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Guys... We actually won. They actually listened and actually took real and immediate action.
> 
> Hats off to General Eyre!



This.

We should be as quick to praise the Snr Leadership for quick, effective resolution as we are to comment on things we see as...lacking.  

Personally, I'm impressed this was handled BEFORE people hit their COS dates and, from all appearances, service members won't be on the hook for fees, etc that result in their move as directed by the Forces.  While this doesn't affect me personally, my unit has several Jnr members in my trade posted in and they're the ones who would have been affected - Avr's who don't necessarily have the ways and means to pay for things they shouldn't have to pay for out of pocket.

BZ - I agree that getting this out on social media is an effective way to hit "ALCON", as well as over internal messages, emails, etc.


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## WEng87 (27 Mar 2018)

Maybe in the wrong IRP thread...

But, did anyone who has moved lately so their taxes and owe a shit ton after you add in the Brookfield T4... Soon as I add it in I go from a refund of $200 to owing $2000...


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## kev994 (27 Mar 2018)

That seems weird, they normally take too much tax off of it.


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## RubberTree (27 Mar 2018)

WEng87 said:
			
		

> Maybe in the wrong IRP thread...
> 
> But, did anyone who has moved lately so their taxes and owe a crap ton after you add in the Brookfield T4... Soon as I add it in I go from a refund of $200 to owing $2000...



Did you change provinces? Moving from Alberta to Nova Scotia for instance can have a profound effect on your taxes. I believe you should be charged provincial tax based on where you lived on December 31 2017. Ensure this is the case.


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## WEng87 (27 Mar 2018)

It does seem very weird!!! This is not my first move, and you're right they usually take way too much out.

I thought the same thing on province, and double checked it... still no change, there has to be something wrong on there, maybe I should contact Brookfield.


----------



## kratz (28 Mar 2018)

I borrowed an old song, but this little ditty has been going through my mind this week:



> *On the Move Again…*
> 
> On the move again
> I getting up and on the move again
> ...


----------



## kev994 (29 Mar 2018)

Has anyone figured out how to get HRG to send e-tickets to their civi email? I have zero DWAN access at my location and HRG seems to only allow a government email address. Thanks.


----------



## rnkelly (29 Mar 2018)

There's a space for secondary email adresses that you can use your civvy email. 

Edited to add: if this is to add a TIN for dependants you need to put customer service as the primary email adress then your civvy as secondary email address. Customer service will have to manually activate your account though because they only send the activation email through dwan.


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## kratz (30 Mar 2018)

In the middle of our move now.

- Nice surprise to discover 2 hotel chains accepted the card for final payment  (Best Western and Comfort Inn).
- Note: Follow BGRS advice and use your personal CC for the pre-authorized hold. Sadly, this remains an issue for our new OS / Pte posted.

- The move itself is pretty routine. This is our 7th move in 13 years. Yes....buy coffee/tea/ Tim bits for your packers and movers. It's worth it.

- Since it's a long weekend, it will be more than 1 month and our HHT claims are not finalized. I had our receipts and claims uploaded the same day our HHT finished. We didn't delay on our end.

- These delays are Important to note for families who track their bills. It's not our fault when we are doing it right
and the system has extended delays. This is NOT the height of APS and we are waiting.


----------



## kev994 (31 Mar 2018)

They figured out that it’s cheaper if they just don’t pay us. On the plus side I’ve been looking at the estimates for my HHT and they seem pretty reasonable, about 75% of what I figure I should get.


----------



## Quirky (31 Mar 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> - The move itself is pretty routine. This is our 7th move in 13 years.



Not to derail this thread but I find that absolutely insane considering myself, along with a bunch of others in the same trade/unit/base haven’t had a move or in some cases unit change in over 10 years.


----------



## dapaterson (31 Mar 2018)

Depends on rank, occupation and many other factors.


----------



## dimsum (31 Mar 2018)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Not to derail this thread but I find that absolutely insane considering myself, along with a bunch of others in the same trade/unit/base haven’t had a move or in some cases unit change in over 10 years.



From post history, I'm assuming you're a 500-series tech?  If so, that's pretty normal for you guys.  

As dapaterson said, rank and occupation, amongst others, skews it a bit as well.  A bunch of trades have each course count as a move as well (as opposed to Restricted or Prohibited moves).


----------



## Ostrozac (31 Mar 2018)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Not to derail this thread but I find that absolutely insane considering myself, along with a bunch of others in the same trade/unit/base haven’t had a move or in some cases unit change in over 10 years.



I'm pretty much on pace with kratz, I'm moving this summer, and it'll be my sixth cost move in 13 years. And I'm not succession planned or anything special. Some of us are moving a lot. One issue that I have encountered is leadership who haven't moved very often not being familiar with the ever changing spiderweb of policy, and as a result giving their troops bad advice, or in some cases, direct orders that don't jive with the policy.

I'll never forget the time that I was ordered to go on Imposed Restriction by a Lieutenant Colonel, because the gaining unit needed me right away and didn't have time for me to do house hunting and conduct a move. So I informed Brookfield that I had been ordered to go on IR, and as a good Master Corporal, I would do what I'm told. Brookfield informed me that single personnel without children can't go on IR, so what the hell are you talking about? And they told me to shut up about obeying orders and book an HHT.

Leaders have a responsibility to educate themselves, the alternative is everyone looking like fools. I hope that leaders at all levels, including staff at our schools that are graduating our newest members, are tracking this year's changes.


----------



## kratz (31 Mar 2018)

CAF leadership had it's hands tied for a reason we don't know.

Now that we have confirmed the current contract is failing, leadership has a bludgeon tool to fight on our behalf.

We need to be careful and acknowledge when the system works as well.


----------



## kev994 (22 Apr 2018)

Has anyone gotten an advance to their bank account? I was expecting one per the Canforgen and my bgrs profile says they loaded it to my relocard yesterday...


----------



## PuckChaser (22 Apr 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> Has anyone gotten an advance to their bank account? I was expecting one per the Canforgen and my bgrs profile says they loaded it to my relocard yesterday...


They might not have changed the computer system and the payment is still going to bank account. You wouldn't get it in your account today anyway, Monday if it is the case.


----------



## kev994 (22 Apr 2018)

Good point, the interface doesn’t have a line that says transferred to bank account


----------



## Lumber (22 Apr 2018)

I've only made one advance request so far and it was deposited into my bank account within a few days.


----------



## Quirky (25 Apr 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I've only made one advance request so far and it was deposited into my bank account within a few days.



What’s the best “document” to upload for EFT? I used a void cheque but haven’t got any feedback from them.


In other RUMINTs, I’ve heard from a few people at work and my realtor who shares an office with a Brookfield agent, that home equity assistance is being increased to $40k from $15k very soon. This would be a huge bonus for a lot of people seeing how the 100% assistance never gets approved.


----------



## kev994 (25 Apr 2018)

Don’t put it in “personal”, apparently they can’t see that (and why I haven’t been paid). My agent said to use “Forms” for my void cheque.


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## kratz (25 Apr 2018)

We finished the HHT on March 3rd and I had all the receipts uploaded and claim submitted by March 4th.
BGRS is finally looking at the claim today, with the aim to finalize and pay out the remaining balance.
They are not even busy with APS yet.


----------



## Quirky (25 Apr 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> Don’t put it in “personal”, apparently they can’t see that (and why I haven’t been paid). My agent said to use “Forms” for my void cheque.



God damn it.


----------



## kev994 (25 Apr 2018)

I don’t know how I missed that tidbit, the direction was so clear


----------



## Lumber (25 Apr 2018)

Quirky said:
			
		

> What’s the best “document” to upload for EFT? I used a void cheque but haven’t got any feedback from them.



I'm sure every bank is different, but with TD if you go into one of your accounts from the accounts page, there should appear a button/link at the top  that says "Direct Deposit Form (PDF)".

I downloaded that, and uploaded it to FORMS on the portal. Voila. No need for an actual "cheque".


----------



## sarahsmom (25 Apr 2018)

Quirky said:
			
		

> What’s the best “document” to upload for EFT? I used a void cheque but haven’t got any feedback from them.



You won't get any feedback fro them about stuff you upload unless you email them to let them know you uploaded something. 
I uploaded my void cheque, then my HHT application and then emailed my agent to see what else I needed. He said everything looked good, and to apply for the advance on the HHT 21 days before my dates.
Side note, request an advance for everything! They tend to approve advances within 24 hours, and pay them out within 5 business days.They actually do not have any timelines that they need to comply with to finalize claims, according to my agent.


----------



## Quirky (26 Apr 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I downloaded that, and uploaded it to FORMS on the portal. Voila. No need for an actual "cheque".



There are also 5 different folders to upload things into and no real guideline as to where to put specific documents. What constitutes a document that's for origin and personal?


----------



## kev994 (26 Apr 2018)

Quirky said:
			
		

> There are also 5 different folders to upload things into and no real guideline as to where to put specific documents. What constitutes a document that's for origin and personal?


‘Personal’, it turns out, cannot be seen by BGRS, so a somewhat useless folder


----------



## Quirky (26 Apr 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> ‘Personal’, it turns out, cannot be seen by BGRS, so a somewhat useless folder



Good place to hide other things...


----------



## Stoker (26 Apr 2018)

Looks like some new and better benefits.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/know-your-benefits-articles/relocation-policy-update.page

What’s new for APS 2018:

    Penalties for early repayment when mortages cannot be ported will be covered;
    Mortgage default insurance, covering the cost of insurance when downpayments are under 20 per cent will be covered;
    Expenses related to up to four additional days when required for house hunting trips will be reimbursed as a custom benefit instead of a personalized benefit;
    Doubling the core benefit limit for home equity assistance from $15,000 to $30,000;
    Increasing the time limit to two years, with the possibility for extensions, for a member’s final move to their intended place of residence (IPR);
    Ten days are added to the policy for interim lodging, meals, and other expenses, to provide a degree of flexibility when members are arranging the possession date of a new home (a slight relaxation of the “door-to-door” policy);
    Service couples now have the option to relocate independently when posted to two different places of duty;
    The weight restriction for shipment of household goods and effects to and from Goose Bay, NL, is removed;
    The entitlement to long term storage of household goods and effects is expanded to include postings to any locations outside of Canada and postings to any isolated post; and
    Some relocation benefits for releasing, untrained Regular Force members will be paid.

In addition, the following benefits will no longer be offered:   

    The “Capital Improvements” provision is repealed.  This benefit reimbursed members for some limited capital improvements to their residence if, when they sold their homes, they did not recuperate the full cost of those improvements;  
    Several incentives which paid members for not doing things will also be repealed:                         
    -     Payment for shortened house hunting trip;
    -     Payment for not using Long Term Storage or shipping major appliances;
    -     Payment for not taking additional rooms on a house hunting trip; and
    -     Payment not to ship or store a vehicle.

Details of all the changes can be found in CANFORGEN 073/18.


----------



## McG (26 Apr 2018)

I saw that some benefits are cancelled.  What is grandfather clause if people already made commitments that were based on the expectation that these benefits would be in place?


----------



## captloadie (27 Apr 2018)

I expect that the standard response will be that exceptions to policy will be determined on an individual basis. No blanket grandfathering approved.

At first, I thought that the impacts would be negligible for the cancelled entitlements, but one or two may in fact have influenced financial decisions: 
    -     Payment for shortened house hunting trip; (I don't think this has a financial impact)
    -     Payment for not using Long Term Storage or shipping major appliances; (you may have sold appliances with the intention of using the funds to buy new upon return)
    -     Payment for not taking additional rooms on a house hunting trip; and (no real financial impact, just the inconvenience of cramming everyone into one room)
    -     Payment not to ship or store a vehicle; (may sold a vehicle expecting to use the funds to purchase another at new location with additional funds)

That said, the gains far outweigh the losses for most people moving.


----------



## Lumber (28 Apr 2018)

captloadie said:
			
		

> That said, the gains far outweigh the losses for most people moving.



Especially those first 3! I spent so much time talking back and fourth between my mortgage broker, my mortgage lender, colleagues and friends trying to parse out the rules and the math with renewing my mortgage knowing that I was moving in 12 months. A 5 year variable non portable mortgage provided significant savings over a 1 year fixed or variable, but I would have to pay a penalty when I broke it. Now, I don't have to worry! I can always just go get the best rate, and not even care (more or less) how long the term is.

Not having a 20% downpayment will no longer deter or younger sailors/soldiers/airpersons from entering the home ownership club, which I think is a great positive. It will also help out those more senior ppl who make good money but get posted to Victoria or Toronto and just can't afford a %20 downpayment on the houses there.


----------



## garb811 (28 Apr 2018)

It may be wise to remember that when the mortgage insurance was covered before, it was not applicable for first time home buyers and in order for it to be covered, you had to use all of your equity from the sale of your previous house towards the down payment on your new house.


----------



## kev994 (28 Apr 2018)

I used it as a first time buyer in 2007


----------



## garb811 (28 Apr 2018)

kev994 said:
			
		

> I used it as a first time buyer in 2007


Really?  Interesting.  When I bought my first house it wasn't covered.


----------



## kev994 (28 Apr 2018)

garb811 said:
			
		

> Really?  Interesting.  When I bought my first house it wasn't covered.


I lie, I pulled my contract and it looks like I paid it. Sorry for he confusion.


----------



## kev994 (15 May 2018)

Does anyone else have a problem with the BGRS apps randomly changing claims? I have had to redo the drop downs for my meal itinerary numerous times because it doesn’t save as what I have selected. It’s getting to be a bit enraging.


----------



## Lumber (15 May 2018)

I just bought a house with a septic bed, and a condition we added was a septic inspection. My TPSP home inspector doesn't inspect septic systems, so we need to find someone else who will.

Does anyone know if we REALLY need to/should  have it inspected; and
Does anyone know if they were able to claim this with Brookfield if it's not covered by the normal home inspector?


----------



## blacktriangle (15 May 2018)

This is on my radar as well. Wells and septic systems can be a liability - I know a couple people that have been burned. if you can swing it and get a competent inspector, I'd go for it. 

I may soon find myself in a similar position, so I'd also be curious to know if you can get it covered.


----------



## kev994 (15 May 2018)

I noticed a blurb in the cfirp specifically about septic inspection and that it includes pumping it out to inspect it. I can’t remember exactly what it says, I only glanced at it


----------



## Pusser (23 May 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I just bought a house with a septic bed, and a condition we added was a septic inspection. My TPSP home inspector doesn't inspect septic systems, so we need to find someone else who will.
> 
> Does anyone know if we REALLY need to/should  have it inspected; and
> Does anyone know if they were able to claim this with Brookfield if it's not covered by the normal home inspector?



My advice would be to get it done. Period.  You could literally find yourself in a world of sh*t if you don't.  Then, file a claim for it.  If it's paid, great!  If not, such is life.  Don't make serious decisions based on whether IRP will pay for something.  It's not a question of whether you can afford it - you can't afford not to.  In the longer term, if it's not reimbursed and you feel it should be, go through the adjudication/grievance process.


----------



## Lumber (23 May 2018)

Incidentals

I'm working on my HHT claim, and I can't claim x2 incidentals, once for me and once for my spouse. There is simply no way to do it on the website/app.

Is that a problem with Brookfield, or am interpreting the entitlements incorrectly? The IRP isn't crystal clear.


----------



## dapaterson (23 May 2018)

4.3.01 says that you should be getting incidentals for your spouse on your HHT.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2014-directive-amend-ch4.page#sec-04-03

Sounds like a UI issue with Brookfield.


(Out of curiosity: Where are you headed?)


----------



## Infanteer (24 May 2018)

Good catch, that happened with mine as well.  I reported the computer accounting error to my rep.


----------



## Infanteer (24 May 2018)

...and now that issue is getting fixed.  While the turn-around times on submitted claims is abysmal, the reps are quite responsive.


----------



## Lumber (24 May 2018)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> ...and now that issue is getting fixed.  While the turn-around times on submitted claims is abysmal, the reps are quite responsive.



I just submitted my HHT and Home Inspeciton claims last night. I'll post how long they take to action for comparison.


----------



## Infanteer (24 May 2018)

Just got feedback - the policy isn't written very clearly.  Check Chapter 1.4 under definitions:



> Incidentals
> When on an HHT or DIT means the Treasury Board Incidental Travel Rate p*ayable to one family unit only (including the CF member)* anytime CF members or dependants are on travel status. Incidentals are intended to pay for expenses such as, but not limited to, gratuities, dry cleaning, laundry, bottled water, phone calls, home grass cutting, snow removal, home security check, plant watering, mail services, pet care, telecommunications hook-ups and service.



So, while on HHT you're only entitled to one set of incidental expenses for your entire family.


----------



## dapaterson (24 May 2018)

I recommend using the recourse mechanism in the policy; I am reasonably sure that 1.4 is being misinterpreted.


----------



## kev994 (24 May 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> 4.3.01 says that you should be getting incidentals for your spouse on your HHT.
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2014-directive-amend-ch4.page#sec-04-03
> 
> ...


I asked my rep about this and quoted this para, he informed me that IAW 1.4 (the definition) only one incidental is authorized per family.  The definition is vague and poorly written.


----------



## Lumber (25 May 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> (Out of curiosity: Where are you headed?)



Halifax! I'm going to miss my family and friends in Ontario, but I'm very happy not to have to deal with aftermath of this election.


----------



## dapaterson (25 May 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Halifax! I'm going to miss my family and friends in Ontario, but I'm very happy not to have to deal with aftermath of this election.



As a shareholder in Emera, I thank you for your upcoming energy use and resulting dividends in my account due to their extortionate rates.


----------



## CountDC (25 May 2018)

you have my sympathy.  Take Ontario any time over Halifax.  In fact picked Ontario for a second visit rather than going back to Halifax.


----------



## dimsum (26 May 2018)

This might help some folks.



> DND doubles financial compensation for military who lose money on moving
> Armed forces members who lose more than $30K selling their house will have to try Treasury Board appeal
> 
> The Department of National Defence has doubled the amount of compensation members can receive when they have to relocate, but admits it still has no way to help those who suffer "catastrophic" financial losses.
> ...



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dnd-doubles-protection-members-moving-1.4675798


----------



## dapaterson (26 May 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> This might help some folks.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dnd-doubles-protection-members-moving-1.4675798



Clearly, someone at the CBC reads army.ca:



			
				Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Looks like some new and better benefits.
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/know-your-benefits-articles/relocation-policy-update.page
> 
> ...


----------



## dimsum (26 May 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Clearly, someone at the CBC reads army.ca:



<tangent>

Hey CBC person - next article; boots and operational clothing!   :nod:

</tangent>

Not really checking housing prices since I'm not due to go anywhere yet, but are there spots where people are expecting to lose $30k this APS?


----------



## dapaterson (26 May 2018)

Well, from an Air Force perspective...

Boots







Operational clothing


----------



## Quirky (26 May 2018)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> <tangent>
> 
> Hey CBC person - next article; boots and operational clothing!   :nod:
> 
> ...



Yup. Bought for $X56k and currently listed at $X29k, never mind the original asking price for the house when I bought it was $x89k. I expect to sell it, if at all, in the high teens, low 20's, this is with the $15k I put into it finishing the basement and doing landscaping. Anyone who has bought a house here from 2011-2014 has lost at a minimum $50k. I'm sorta okay and bought in 2015 when it was already on it's way down. What the article fails to mention is you get covered 80% of your loss UP TO $30k. So even if I sell for $x20 I'll be under $36k, but i'll only get back 80%. I'm not complaining at all and it's good timing that it went up to $30k, I'm just happy I'll be gone from this crap bucket of a town (loved working here though). This new posting gives me and my spouse the chance to be back in civilisation and we won't be isolated from humanity, I'd gladly take the loss on a house. 

As far as boots, my last issued pair was on my QL3s 12 years ago. I've either bought my own or had them LPO'd.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (26 May 2018)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Well, from an Air Force perspective...
> 
> Boots
> 
> ...



Hey that's not accurate at all!

Our wings are "pearl grey" now...the wings on that hat will just _not_ do!   rly:


----------



## Quirky (1 Jun 2018)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Verify that the distance between your two bases is no more than 650km. For your HHT/DIT, you're only entitled to 1 day of travel, which means a max of 650km. Should it be greater than 650km, you'll need to ensure that the extra travel day is either on a weekend, or on a day of annual/stat leave. I'd also be careful in ensuring that Brookfield is aware of your intent to drive POMV so theyh don't accidentally book you a flight when you put your HHT application in.



So according to the Promiles calculation the distance between the two "bases" is 714km. Google maps shows anywhere from 645-660km depending on where in town/base you place the origin and destination bullets. I am already approved through my CO to do a DIT (4 total days over a weekend). Would there be any issue, god forbid I use common sense, to just drive the entire way on one day? Either way I'm approved by the CoC and I'd be saving money/meals not having to travel two extra days.


----------



## TQMS (25 Jun 2018)

Just got the following email chain forwarded.

*CFIRP Coord Update - 22 June 2018*

Good Day CFIRP Coords,

Just a quick relocation update:

•         BGRS is currently modifying their systems and by mid-July will be administering the new policies announced in CANFORGEN 073/18.  

•         Home Equity Assistance (HEA) increasing from $15K to $30K from core effective 19 Apr - please remind members that HEA above $15K is taxable (even when it comes from Core). Therefore, HEA payments may have income tax implications. Members who are entitled to amounts greater than $15K should confirm the taxation rules applicable to their circumstances. 

•         As you may have heard, TBS designated Cold Lake as a “Depressed Market” for specific months. To qualify for 100% HEA from core, members must have both purchase and sold in designated months within specific years. TBS is currently conducting further analysis to consider whether there are other time periods that meet the definition of Depressed Market - a response is anticipated by 1 August 2018. DCBA has corresponded with members and DRBM/BGRS will be effecting payment shortly.

•         After considerable liaison, it appears we will be able to utilize CF52s to pay most members whose claims fell under the previous contract (Dartmouth). I hope to push this initiative and we should see the first 134 members’ claims settled by next week.

•         Also we have worked with DMCSS and have finalized the new DND 4443 (replacing the DND 483). Please find attached the DND 4443 form and instructions for your SA. In addition, we have forwarded the FEAMS report to BGRS which will allow them to complete the backlog of final move claims.

•         Lastly we are developing a flow chart to help members understand the relocation process.  It will outline the activity they must undertake and decisions to be made during each step of the process.  We will share this decision tree and request your feedback before we publish. Also we are publishing a presentation that mirrors the topics previously covered by the BGRS during the General Briefing Sessions that occurred every spring.  Please watch Know Your Benefits website.

I look forward to hearing your comments and suggestions.

Thanks for all your assistance.
DRBM


----------



## BrewsKampbell (10 Jul 2018)

So coming up on the end of my QL3 (remuster) and I'm trying to get some info but without a posting message I can't really do much with BGRS. After reading the policy I'm trying to figure out what I can get from the HEA, I know it was increased to 30k this year, which is nice since I'm looking to lose around that, but most likely more when I sell my house in the Edmonton area. My problem is I purchased the house with my now ex-wife, both our names are still on it as the divorce was amicable and she didn't want any proceeds from the house. I didn't remove her name yet because I knew I was going to be posted out. My issue is, can I get reimbursed the full 30k? If the home is co-owned it says they will cover expenses related to the percent of the property you own but it stats if the home is or was owned by a dependent you will receive 100%.

Am I looking at only being able to claim 50% of my loss?



> 8.1.07 Co-ownership
> 
> Where the principal residence is co-owned by a person or persons who are not the spouse, common-law partner or dependant of the CF member, reimbursement shall be for expenses proportional to the CF members' legal share based on the percentage of ownership as stipulated in the deed except as outlined in art 8.2.05. CF members will be required to provide legal documents that show legal share of the property.
> 
> Where the principal residence is or was co-owned by CF member's spouse, common-law partner or dependent, reimbursement shall be at 100%.


----------



## Quirky (10 Oct 2018)

Once_a_TQ said:
			
		

> •         As you may have heard, TBS designated Cold Lake as a “Depressed Market” for specific months. To qualify for 100% HEA from core, members must have both purchase and sold in designated months within specific years. TBS is currently conducting further analysis to consider whether there are other time periods that meet the definition of Depressed Market - a response is anticipated by 1 August 2018. DCBA has corresponded with members and DRBM/BGRS will be effecting payment shortly.



So has there been an answer on this? As it stands now, if you sold your house after April 1st 2018 you do not qualify for 100% HEA which makes absolutely zero sense. This pretty much disqualifies any member who was posted out this APS and sold a house. The market is still dropping in Cold Lake....

On another note, I have claims in from beginning of June that have yet to be finalised, and it's for simple stuff too. This company is a god damn joke and disaster, I hope for the rest of the CF they get fired next APS.


----------



## Lumber (10 Oct 2018)

Yea, I'm still waiting on my last 3 claims, totaling around $5000 for IL&M, Driver's Licences/Plates, and Mortgage Early Repayment Penalty.

When I asked my advisor, she very clearly states that they have no contractually set "maximum" amount of time to settle claims, but with December 1st coming up, I'm starting to get worried. $5k is a small amount compared to the $32k that I've already claimed and received, but it's still a lot of money.

I mean, I submitted my claim for the $650 moving grant about 2 weeks ago, and they settled it the same day...


----------



## kratz (10 Oct 2018)

Received EFT payments this week, 
to finalize some of the claims from our posting this past April 2018.

We still have some pending BGRS approvals.


----------



## Lumber (30 Oct 2018)

Perhaps I was mistaken, but I seem to be under the impression that the current contract with BGRS is only a 1 year contract and is ending on 30 Nov.

The tables in the various TPSP booklets seem to imply it was only a 1 year contract. For example, in the Lawyer/Notary TPSP booklet, table A.1. is titled “Contract Effective and End Dates”, and it lists the NEW CAF RP contract as being between 01 Dec 17 and 30 Nov 18 (hence my assumption that the contract was only a 1 year contract). 

However, my adviser, without any further explanation, said that their contract is not expiring on 30 Nov.

Why did I think that it was only a year long contract? I feel like I've seen somewhere else that it's only a 1 year contract...am I crazy?


----------



## kratz (30 Oct 2018)

My understanding is the "one year contract" clause applies to being a recognized TPSP on the BGRS portal.

Example: Century21 Real Estate must reapply to BGRS each year to be listed as a local TPSP.


----------



## Lumber (30 Oct 2018)

kratz said:
			
		

> My understanding is the "one year contract" clause applies to being a recognized TPSP on the BGRS portal.
> 
> Example: Century21 Real Estate must reapply to BGRS each year to be listed as a local TPSP.



Ahhhhh that makes more sense...


----------



## kratz (29 Apr 2021)

Yippie.  3 years later and on the move again. 

A new CAFRD vs CFIRP, but same old  issues dealing with BGRS.


----------



## kev994 (29 Apr 2021)

kratz said:


> Yippie.  3 years later and on the move again.
> 
> A new CAFRD vs CFIRP, but same old  issues dealing with BGRS.


Yeah, and the policies you based your mortgage on 3 years ago are once again the opposite of what is rewarded. 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Eye In The Sky (30 Apr 2021)

The new SIT policy, if it is being interpreted correctly, is simply right out of it.  Basically, if you're F & E goes into SIT and remains there more than the approved/covered # of days...you will be billed for the loading back onto truck, etc.

If you are within the approved/covered # of days...the cost is billed to your move.  WTF?


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Apr 2021)

Where do you see that interpretation?


----------



## Ostrozac (30 Apr 2021)

Does anyone have any experience with the new local move policy in 1.1.05(1)(a) where a cost move can be authorized if the old workplace and the new workplace are more than 40km apart? As written, this seems to authorize cost moves in certain circumstances when a member is moved within the NCR, which always used to be a flat out no cost move.  For example, DHTC and 1600 Star Top Road are 52 km apart. 

Am I reading this incorrectly? Are such cost moves actually happening? Or are Career Managers lily-padding members to get around the 40 km? "Here are your two no-cost moves: first you go to Carling for a day, then you report to 1600 Star Top"


----------



## SupersonicMax (30 Apr 2021)

I would say that a posting within the NCR would be a prohibited posting.  To be eligible to the CAFRD, you need to be NOT prohibited from moving your HG&E, your new workplace be at least 40 km away from your current workplace AND your new residence be at least 40 km closer to your new place of duty (compared to your old residence).


----------



## Eye In The Sky (3 May 2021)

SupersonicMax said:


> Where do you see that interpretation?


This is what more than one person is being told by both BGRS and Base F & E Sections.  It's a discussion on a social media site (FB) group with military families helping each other thru the processes.  I've no vested interest, personally, but...like many people on the site, I advised to request clarification via DCBA thru to their Relocation Coordinator.


----------



## SupersonicMax (3 May 2021)

That is interesting.  If you read the policy it states:

“SIT at the member’s expense is limited to the maximum number of days of basic coverage under the HG&E RSC. The member is responsible to coordinate delivery of their HG&E before that period of basic coverage expires. The member is responsible for all subsequent HG&E *storage costs after that period of basic coverage ends.*”

It mentions storage costs, not loading/delivery/unloading.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (4 May 2021)

Agreed; if enough people query DCBA, maybe they'll put out a bulletin so the intent is clear.  

Our last move, our F & E was in SIT a few weeks longer than covered (new home);  the company didn't charge anything so we didn't get a bill from BGRS for additional SIT.   If there was a SIT charge, we still wouldn't have paid for the load truck/delivery/unload as it is part of the contract.  We would have paid, based on the weight and rate per 100lbs only.


----------



## kratz (4 May 2021)

Halfway through our move process and so far this is far and the CAFRD is much improved over the implementation of the last CFIRP update with those relo cards and other policies IAW our experiences to date.

HHT was smooth. no major issues,
House Purchase was smooth and it's nice to now have the MDI reimbursed to FTHBs.
Pet expenses now being covered by CAFRD, great to see it,
Our packing is going smooth, and
Advances, claims have been processed much faster than before.


----------



## captloadie (4 May 2021)

What I have been reading from the online forums and social media is that the TB policy is being strictly enforced, at the insistence of the TB. There may be some very valid reasons for this, as I have been also been reading many comments on these same sites for the last 2 or 3 years on how more and more members are moving away from the intent of the door to door policy. 

The CAF has contracts in place with moving companies that set out specific timelines that the contractor must meet, certain standards of service, for a fixed amount. The CAF wants to also be able to hold these contracted companies accountable when they don't meet the agreed upon terms. However, contracts are a two way street. The contracted companies higher staff, subcontract parts of moves, and calculate space requirements based on the information provided to them by F&E. They also expect to be paid additional fees when the CAF requirements are outside the standard terms of the contract, especially when they are being held more accountable for their service levels. I believe that in the past, if pan-CAF there were a small majority of moves that required leaving SIT greater than the contracted days, companies either waived the fees, or F&E sections just paid the bills, as the effort to track one or two individuals down for relatively small sums of money wasn't worth it.

Now though, where it might have been an exception to leave items in SIT for unseen circumstances, members are actually building that into their move plans. House is being built and won't be ready for 2/4/6 months, I'll just leave it in SIT and stay at a Air BNB or friends. RHU isn't ready, or I'm way down the list, no problem, I'll leave my items in SIT until it becomes available so I don't lose Pri 1 status. Individuals booking moves without an address at destination, because, hey, stuff can just stay in SIT. They plan this because they have heard that either no one has ever had to pay the additional storage fees, or at worst, the fees are relatively small and they'll just claim it on taxes if not reimbursed. But there is a cost to the contracted company to have to wait, reschedule, higher staff outside normal move windows to deliver and unpack. And it impacts other DND and private moves, thus potentially incurring penalties. So they want to be paid.

When in the past these "abuses" were studied, what happened? A crack down in policy, and a loss of benefits for the member. Everyone remember the inflexible door to door move policy because it was perceived individuals were abusing the 10 days of ILM? This I think is a similar, though fairer, crackdown, if one needs to happen.

All that said, it doesn't address the the underlying problem at the root of this, which I would predict is:
1) unaffordable housing markets in many CAF locations;
2) a lack of available RHUs;
3) an unwillingness to go unaccompanied or IR, based on family needs and current policy.

If we work on fixing these three items, perhaps it would fix the above issue in most circumstances.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (4 May 2021)

Good points.

My last move (last fall, actually), the company and Destination F & E were very forgiving.  We were at the mercy of the power company to get power connected so the contractor, inspectors etc could finish everything and give us our Occupancy Permit.  We had a realitively small move too (just over 7k weight).  The moving company basically said we were lucky it was in the fall (outside peak time), and that the only real concern they had was if we said 'we can accept F & E on Day X" and then that shit the bed and they then had to unload/restore/re-load the truck again later.  If that happened, then we'd of likely absorbed some additional charges.  As we avoided that, no additional SIT charges fell on us (some luck/some design).  If that all happened in July....potentially a more expensive outcome.  We were already absorbing all the ILM and M out of pocket at that point, so some mercy was welcome.


----------



## SupersonicMax (4 May 2021)

captloadie said:


> What I have been reading from the online forums and social media is that the TB policy is being strictly enforced, at the insistence of the TB. There may be some very valid reasons for this, as I have been also been reading many comments on these same sites for the last 2 or 3 years on how more and more members are moving away from the intent of the door to door policy.


Tell me, in the policy, where it states that loading/transport/unloading must be paid by the member?  It merely states that storage costs (in excess of TNL/IL&M) must be paid by member.


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## captloadie (5 May 2021)

SupersonicMax said:


> Tell me, in the policy, where it states that loading/transport/unloading must be paid by the member?  It merely states that storage costs (in excess of TNL/IL&M) must be paid by member.


The policy states that member must attempt to organize a door-to-door move to be eligible for the benefits. Other than door-to-door moves are made by exception. Therefore, by the black and white of the policy, members should not be entitled to the benefits if their personal circumstances fall outside these parameters. Because of the way that the policy is chunked up, you can be entitled to be reimbursed for parts of the move, but not others, if they don't fall within the policy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should be forcing members to pay for anything other than additional SIT, but that means we need to change the policy. Or spell it out better in the current policy what a member forfeits when they go outside the parameters of policy and service contracts.


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## CountDC (12 May 2021)

When I worked in F&E we did not cover your SIT charges for you if it was due to your choices and SIT was a max of 1 week.  LTS was 100% members problem including the reload, move and new unload.    DND only covers one move.


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## SupersonicMax (12 May 2021)

If your F&E go into SIT for 7 days, DND would have to cover reload/move/unload.  Not sure why they would not cover reload/move/unload for a SIT of more than is covered by the policy.


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## captloadie (12 May 2021)

W


SupersonicMax said:


> If your F&E go into SIT for 7 days, DND would have to cover reload/move/unload.  Not sure why they would not cover reload/move/unload for a SIT of more than is covered by the policy.


Well, if the contractor wants to charge extra for the delay and hassle, and it is due to a member's personal choice, should DND pick up the extra charges?


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## SupersonicMax (12 May 2021)

The member should pick up the cost above and over what would have been covered but no more!


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## Eye In The Sky (13 May 2021)

I agree with SSM.  The "load on truck, unload in mbr's house" was already paid for in the contract.  The only additional charges should be "days in sit, by weight".  Anything else is fleecing it, IMO.

The CAF RP didn't do much to help the mbr, IMO.  Reduced ILM and M (the $$$ part)...reducted SIT...


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