# Interesting..



## inferno (22 Feb 2006)

Well they just gave 8 of us the news of our simulator results. 6 out of 8 passed pilot. 4 out of 8 passed NAV.

Most nerveracking experiance EVER.
I think I'm still shaking.

Now all we have to do is turn out heads and cough for the medical in toronto.


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## Guy. E (22 Feb 2006)

Congrats on being able to do what i never be able to.  :-[  (glasses)

Prehaps one of these days i will be working on your plane...  ;D


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## mbhabfan (22 Feb 2006)

Congrats Inferno....hope to be following you real soon..


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## Zach15 (22 Feb 2006)

Congratulations man,

   I go next weekend. I am scared as hell! Did you have any previous flying experience?

    I have none, besides going up in a piper a couple times with a friend of mine who has his PPL. I also can't really afford to pay for sim time right now, so I think I will just have to study the book and wing it. 

                 - Zach


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## Good2Golf (22 Feb 2006)

Congrat, Inferno!


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## auto (22 Feb 2006)

Congrats Inferno, 

 big hurdle passed. Hope to say the same soon.


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## double0three (22 Feb 2006)

Zach15 said:
			
		

> I think I will just have to study the book and wing it.



*Wing* it! Ha-ha!

Congrats Inferno, I also hope to be in the same shoes as you soon (so to speak).  I am waiting to hear when my ASC date is, and I can't wait.  I just hope I pass, since I also have no 'real' flight experience.

But I just don't know how likely we are to land a spot even if we pass ASC?  I hear it's pretty tough to get into, which is kind of discouraging, but I will try my heart out!


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## inferno (24 Feb 2006)

Well I'm home now, blew through the medical and now its just a wait for the official results.

3 of us of 6 were eliminated from FastJet due to not fitting into the Hawk... but then we were told that's not a cut and dry law.. assuming we are top of the class, and really want fastjet, there may be strings to be pulled and measurements to be retaken to get us into the Hawk.

As for ACS.. it's the most nerve racking time ever. We didn't realy get told what to tell/not to tell, so I think I'm gonna stay safe and just tell what everyone else has already said.

MS-FlightSim.. with the settings on here.. HUGE help. One of the guys actually had it setup in his room.. 
You get lots of time to ponder your mistakes.. not so much fun.
Trenton is really nice.. even when its freezing cold.
We talked a lot with pilots now limited to flying a desk. (aka the old wise guys).. their words.. it sucks that recruiting centers without pilots doing OJT are giving very little information to candidates.. going in there cold turkey is a death sentance.
It's no a simulator... people who are pilots have trouble on it because of this.. it doesn't act like a sim.

Not to discourage anyone.. but the numbers as I heard them are..

30% no experiance pass rate.
75% liceneced pilot pass rate.
90% returning student pass rate.

And in that 30% goes everyone like the people in my group who are 5 hours away from PPLs... or have 120+ hours in MS sim..

As for getting a spot once your file goes to the selection board... as far as I've been told by just about everyone, they are still short of pilots.. if you're good enough to get to the selection board.. chances are you will get a place in Portage.


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## double0three (24 Feb 2006)

Well that's good news about being able to land a spot should you make it to the selection board!  Kind of conflicts with the way I understood from before but perhaps you are correct, since the are indeed short on pilots.  They probably also have to account for the number of people who may not make it past basic training, I'm sure the pass rate isn't 100%.  Same with pilot training itself.

Well I have no experience flying a plane whatsoever, minus of course MS flight Sim.  And I believe the system they have setup there is specifically designed to measure your ability to follow directions and your learning potential, rather than show your flight skills.  Thats what I understood at least.

Also are you allowed to talk about the medical that you undergo in Toronto?? If so I'm kind of curious about that.  I heard you do an ECG, but I'm sure they wouldn't fly you all the way to Toronto just for that.  There must be something big and fancy that goes on there..... and I hate surprises


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## Astrodog (24 Feb 2006)

How tall were the guys that couldnt fit into a hawk cockpit?


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## inferno (24 Feb 2006)

It's not so much height as femur length.

They sit you in a little seat measurement deal and take a lot of measurements, then run it through some kind of algorithum and spit out a pass fail for every aircraft in the fleet.

I'm 6'0. And the other guy who didn't get it was 6'1.

If I remember correctly I was 0.2CM from shin clearance. That's 2mm.. and I know I could have shuffled myself back a little more and cleared that. 

But it's not like you can change your perportions anyways. And the Doc was clear as mud in saying.... in two years they may not have the hawk, or they may have made some mods, or the measurements could change, or your body could change, or the measurements they have right now aren't even very good ones. He did note that there was a large percentage of people he saw who weren't fitting in the hawk, and that didn't seem right.

I dunno if I'm allowed to talk about the med?.. It's some interesting stuff, nothing you can do about any of it. Supposedly its more to establish a baseline, then to filter people out. That should have been done at your CFRC/D.
Best bet is not to stress it because you might shoot your heartrate/bloodpressure through the roof. Then again by the time you get there you've burned a weeks worth of adrenaline in the sims and waiting for the results.

Goodluck everyone!


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## Guy. E (24 Feb 2006)

At any point during the whole ordeal, did they tell you once that you are not to disclose any information regarding the procedure or process?


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## h.u.a. (24 Feb 2006)

I dropped my application for DEO - pilot off yesterday, at the recruiting centre in Calgary, so I'm just at the beginning of the process.  Still need to drop off my 2 letters of reference (I need to get them back from my referees), & then take it from there.

My background, am 32, & was working on my private licence a few years back, so I would fall into the 'no experience' group & hopefully, will fall into the 30% pass rate group.  I figure it's time for a career change & should follow my heart, flying is really all I've wanted to do & I've put it off way too long.  I'm 6'2" (pushing 6'3"), so fighter might not be an option for me (depending on my femur length).  That might be ok though, for some reason, I think those big ugly Hercules are a thing of beauty.


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## inferno (24 Feb 2006)

Guy. E said:
			
		

> At any point during the whole ordeal, did they tell you once that you are not to disclose any information regarding the procedure or process?



We were never sat down and told.. "Don't  say anything."
But I seem to vaguely remember signing something... but maybe that was for the CFAT.
I'm just going to follow the standard set here and only regurgitate what people have already said that seems to be alright.

Interestingly enough though, people who come from Recruiting centers with pilots doing OJT seem to have DISTINCT advantages over those who do not. So, if your recruiting center has a pilot doing OJT or a pilot who no longer flies, I would HIGHLY suggest sitting down with him/her for 30-45 min and getting the scoop. They seem to know exactly what they can and can't say, and are giving the best advice to candidates IMO.


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## Zach15 (24 Feb 2006)

30% pass rate for people with no experience..

   Yikes! 


 I don't know what I'll do if I fail.. get my PPL and try again I suppose. That doesn't seem possible for me any time soon though.


            Better nail it on the first try, experience or no experience.


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## double0three (24 Feb 2006)

inferno said:
			
		

> Interestingly enough though, people who come from Recruiting centers with pilots doing OJT seem to have DISTINCT advantages over those who do not. So, if your recruiting center has a pilot doing OJT or a pilot who no longer flies, I would HIGHLY suggest sitting down with him/her for 30-45 min and getting the scoop. They seem to know exactly what they can and can't say, and are giving the best advice to candidates IMO.



Wow that's good advice. I believe I remember my interviewer mentioning there was a pilot in the building, I will definately have to ask about that now.  Thanks a lot for the tip!


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## Bograt (25 Feb 2006)

inferno said:
			
		

> 3 of us of 6 were eliminated from FastJet due to not fitting into the Hawk... but then we were told that's not a cut and dry law.. assuming we are top of the class, and really want fastjet, there may be strings to be pulled and measurements to be retaken to get us into the Hawk.



My BS detector is picking up something. I was under the impression that one had to medically qualify for all. It may need new bateries. Perhaps Zoomie or Inch can confirm.

You are a long way from the Jaw. Congrats on getting past ACS, but focus on the most immediate. ACS is the easiest step in the process.


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## double0three (25 Feb 2006)

If ASC is the easiest step in the process, what's the most difficult??  Making it past the selection board?


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## Zach15 (25 Feb 2006)

I think what he is referring to is things such as BMQ and the flight training phases. 

     However, my feeling about that is if I pass ACS, determination and hard work will get me through the rest of the way. 

                 Right now I have no experience, and that is why I am worried about AirCrew.


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## SeaKingTacco (25 Feb 2006)

> Right now I have no experience, and that is why I am worried about AirCrew.



Quit worrying.  We've been doing this testing since about 1941.  We've gotten pretty good at knowing what we are looking for.  You will either have it... or you won't.  And the single thing that you can do that will increase your chances the most is to learn to relax.

Just go to ASC, try your hardest and sleep well at night knowing that you tried your best.  If you don't make the grade for aircrew, don't sweat it too badly.  It's not personal.  And there are plenty of other fun and rewarding roles one play in the military.  Trust me.  I started out only interested in being a pilot; did a 9 year detour through the Artillery and ended up as a Navigator.  You know what? I've enjoyed almost every second of both careers.

It's not what you do, it's what you make of what you do...


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## Zoomie (25 Feb 2006)

Bograt said:
			
		

> Perhaps Zoomie or Inch can confirm.



Unfortunately I am neither in the position to confirm or deny the validity of his statement.  I was under the same impresion as you Bograt - the seat on the H2 and the Hawk are pretty much the same - but I don't know about the inside of the cockpit.  The Hawk seat may very well be that much closer to the "dash"...

It does seem strange for DCIEM to already start phasing out candidates for specific pits in the fleet.  Not that there won't be plenty of guys ready to jump on that jet slot.

Like Bograt said - focus now on each step of your transition from civi to Wing CF Pilot. First step, after getting accepted, is IAP/BOTP - don't worry about flight training until you get there.


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## double0three (26 Feb 2006)

Zach15 said:
			
		

> I think what he is referring to is things such as BMQ and the flight training phases.
> 
> However, my feeling about that is if I pass ACS, determination and hard work will get me through the rest of the way.
> 
> Right now I have no experience, and that is why I am worried about AirCrew.



Yep same here.  Only reason I'm worried about ASC is that it's not really something you can control.  Like SeaKingTacco says, it's either something you have or something you don't.  If I *do* make it all the way and get offered a position, it's basically home free as far as I'm concerned.  The hard work has yet to start yet, but I'm willing to work harder at this than anything else in my life, all I need is the chance to do it.


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## rnkelly (26 Feb 2006)

I had kind of the same scenario at aircrew medical earlier this month, the anthropometric measurements said that I was borderline pass for a couple of the trainers, ie; jet-ranger, hawk.  The doctor told me that about half of the people that get to aircrew medical don't "fit" into at least one of the trainers.  And the majority of those not being able to fit in the jet-ranger. Not sure though how many people actually get disqualified for this.


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## double0three (26 Feb 2006)

@ 170cm, I should hopefully fit in nicely!


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## Crimmsy (26 Feb 2006)

I'm not up to speed on the anthropometric requirements, but from my H2 and Hawk experience I'd speculate that at 170 cm you should be comfortable in either cockpit. The Hawk cockpit is rather more snug than the Harvard, but at 5'11" and 160 lbs, I fit comfortably into it. I wouldn't want to be much bigger than that, but I know guys a bit taller with 30 or 40 more pounds that manage fine.


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## double0three (26 Feb 2006)

Well there's one good thing to add to my file!  8)


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## inferno (27 Feb 2006)

I'm kind of curious to know how many.. if any current CF pilots were told they had a "slight heart murmur... nothing to be worried about" in their Medical?

A couple of us were told.. and while im crossing my fingers for the "nothing to be worried about" I'm having flashbacks to the 2 or 3 horror stories of friends of friends who got to the medical but were disqualified for a heart murmur.

Anyone with their wings, or on their way to wings have a minor blip on the ECG?


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## double0three (27 Feb 2006)

I don't really know much, but from what I heard from other users is that this heart murmur is something they are specifically looking for, but if it's only minor they will probably overlook it.  There are varying degrees of heart murmurs (1-6), and low on the scale is probably acceptable (1 or 2 maybe?).  Also if it was something that would cause a problem I assume they would have told you at the time.  Just my speculation!


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## Zoomie (27 Feb 2006)

I was diagnosed with a heart murmur when I was born - I still have it today.  I also have mitral-valve prolapse that was diagnosed when I was undergoing an ultrasound of my heart taken down my throat.  The doctors determined that the murmur was due to a tiny hole that exists between the two atriums of the heart - this hole was deemed medically insignificant.  Oh, I have my wings too - so no worries.


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## SeaKingTacco (27 Feb 2006)

I also have Mitral Valve Prolapse and have been flying since 1998.  No biggie for me...


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## double0three (27 Feb 2006)

Good news all around!


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## inferno (27 Feb 2006)

Thanks guys... 

I haven't been losing any sleep over it... because there is really nothing that can be done as far as the medical goes. It's a pass/fail deal... completely arbitrary.

But.. that makes me feel much better.


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## rnkelly (27 Feb 2006)

That's funny because I was diagnosed with MVP as well during the medical and was told that it wouldn't be a problem.  Just to find out more on the subject I researched this subject on the Defense Research and Development webpage and found publications that showed MVP to be the single most disqualifying condition that pilots had.  This research caused me to get a little paranoid but it's nice to hear that others have encountered this.  Hopefully this condition doesn't get worse with time! eh guys?


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## double0three (28 Feb 2006)

With so many people here that say they have it, maybe it's one of those things that a large number of people have, to a slight degree.  And as long as it's not one of the more severe cases it's probably acceptable.


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## Zoomie (28 Feb 2006)

There really is no way of knowing if you have Mitral Valve Pro-Lapse - you can't feel it.  Only from an in-depth ultrasound of the heart can they diagnose such a condition - it is a non-event.

What you can feel are called Premature Ventricular Contractions (PVCs) - this involves an extra mis-fired beat of the heart.  Again, a non-event so long as you don't get them in a row.  I am using this condition as my "get-out-of jail free" card for not being an Instructor - as such a condition may affect your Class A medical.


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