# Winnipeg vs Trenton Postings



## 3green (21 Mar 2007)

Let's say that two very likely options out of Portage are 435 Sqn in Winnipeg, or 436/424 in Trenton. Can anyone provide a little insight into a few questions many of us have? I'm wondering about how much time is typically spent on the road, what the base is like to work on, the city's opportunities for a spouse looking for a job, quality of life in the community, and what's cool and not about the respective job? I'm just looking to start a general dialogue. Thanks.


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## pylon (21 Mar 2007)

I can tell you about Trenton, as I grew up in the area and have several friends posted to 8 Wing.

The city is growing, slowly but surely.  For many, many years the economy has been struggling and could be looked at as a depressed area, though the Forces have really kept its head above water. With the expansion 8 Wing has seen and the expansion it will see over the next several years, things are picking up.  Cost of living is very reasonable, you're an hour and change from Toronto, and about an hour from Kingston.  Lots of beautiful wildlife and if you're into fishing/hunting you'll love it.  As for jobs, it is getting better. Between Belleville and Trenton, you're spouse/significant other should be able to find some form of employment.  

I like the area and would be more than happy to spend a few years there.


My .02 cents.



kc


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## mudrecceman (22 Mar 2007)

I have never been to either but I am going to PM a buddy of mine about this thread, he was just posted to 8 Wing recently and I was asking him about the Trenton too...maybe he will have something to add...


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## gaspasser (22 Mar 2007)

3green,
 Obviously you're going to be or want to be a Herc driver.  Trenton is not too-too bad.  It's a small town, some think it contains small minded people,   The base is quite busy from all angles and trades.  It's about to get bigger with the C-17's and updated Hercs coming.  You're between Kingston, which has great shopping; and Toronto, whatever is there(?) Woods and forest just a stones throw away.  You could probably launch your boat right from the base.  There's a Yaught Club/anchorage here.  
If you're looking for specific info, let me know.
If you like the big city, go to Winterpeg.  Yes!  They say it gets a tad chilly out that way.  Trenton winters (2 for me) are generally mild.
God I wish I was back in Greenwood!  
Regards, BYTD


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## Bobby Rico (22 Mar 2007)

I grew up in Trenton...it's a dump.  Poor municipal government, non-existant night life, trailer parks, bad smell thanks to the Domtar and the Quaker Oats plants.  Furthermore, it has an unusually high rate of petty crimes due to the slum areas of the town.  All in all it's a town that's surviving solely on 8 Wing.  The economy wouldn't be able to support itself if the base wasn't there.

Do yourself a favor, go to Winnipeg.


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## gaspasser (22 Mar 2007)

Well, I wasn't going to mention all the bad stuff...hey, we have a Walmart(?)


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## Avro_Arrow_1976 (22 Mar 2007)

I just spent 4 years at 8 Wing Trenton for a Squadron and I know a lot about Winnipeg as I have family there. I havew trained and deployed a lot with the folks from 435 Squadron.

There is definitely good and bad points about each base. I will list them below:

Trenton Strengths
- very deployable, you will get to travel a lot
- large base, a lot of infrastructure
- gorgeous weather most of the time
- close to Toronto, Kingston
- low cost of living
- beautiful lakes and provincial parks near by
- lots of aircraft and training opportunities
- the C130 school, 426 Sqn is on base
- home of Canada's AirMobility force
- 436 flies Tactical Transport which is really cool
- 424 SAR Squadron, and they fly transport too

Trenton Bad Points
- if you don't like heat and humidity it can get quite bad (I like it)
- not too many high paying jobs in the area for spouses
- reletively blue collar community
- high property taxes
- large Squadrons, easy to get lost in the shuffle

Winnipeg Good Points
- small base, few aircraft lots of opportunity
- 435 flies SAR, Transport (mostly non tactical) and Air to Air Refuelling
- lots to do in Winnipeg, professional sports teams
- good place for spouses to find jobs

Winnipeg Bad Points
- The weather can be brutal, short summers long cold winters
- cost of living is really going up
- real estate prices are high
- few aircraft so if one breaks then the chance of finding a replacement is smaller

That's my take! I'd go back to either place, at any of the Squadrons 436, 435 and 424 they are great places to work


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## mudrecceman (22 Mar 2007)

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Well, I wasn't going to mention all the bad stuff...hey,* we have a Walmart*(?)



Craps, I am THERE!  Email goin' out to the CM shop tomorrow!  :blotto:


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## Bobby Rico (22 Mar 2007)

Wow, a Wal-mart!  Maybe that town IS getting its act together.  

*Honestly, my only fond memories of living in that place were the occasional CF-18 sightings, the bi-annual airshow (is that jazz still going on?  Been awhile since I was there), and the constant-constant barrage of C-130s going over the house on an...oh...hourly basis...blessing and a curse that one though.  The rest of my time there was depressing.  Uuuuuughhhhh-level depressing.


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## gaspasser (22 Mar 2007)

AA76, well said in point form.  
3green, that should answer your question.

 8)


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## 3green (22 Mar 2007)

Thanks for the good info. I think Winnipeg will provide more opportunity for a spouse, especially one interested in something non-blue collar. I know all too well about the weather. Not that any of us may have a choice, but I have no idea what I am getting myself into in either of these options and it would sure help out to know. In the Belleville area, or a reasonable commuting distance around it - is there much opportunity other than Timmy's drive through?

How much time away from home do transport drivers in Trenton see? How about Winnipeg? 

When on Sqn at 435, are you a jack of all trades - doing transport, SAR, re-fueling etc at any time? Or do you get assigned one task (ie SAR) and that's all you touch? I imagine that the tactical side of transport is probably the most fun a Herc driver has flying?

Winnipeg is suppose to be a relatively cheap place to live but it seems that while the average house price is low, the avg is dragged way down by certain areas. A half decient house is still pretty pricey as national standards go. Not Victoria pricey, but certainly not Moose Jaw cheap. Provincial income taxes would put a new Capt at about $3000 per year less in take home pay compared to Ontario... all for the priviledge of living in Winnipeg. 

I'm curious to know what kind of hours a guy in each community typically flies?


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## Avro_Arrow_1976 (22 Mar 2007)

I could be wrong but I think to fly Air to Air Refuelling you require special quals so not everyone flies it. But you will fly transport and SAR for sure. As for your hours, I am not sure what a pilot will accumulate on average but the whole C130 fleet is mandated to fly 18,000 hrs a year.


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## Sf2 (22 Mar 2007)

with the current op tempo overseas, expect to be gone....alot.

I have a few buddies in the squadrons who are on their 3rd or 4th rotation.


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## karl28 (22 Mar 2007)

3green  

Hi there see your thinking about a posting to Trenton . I do not know any thing about the military side of Trenton  but can tell you abit about the  town itslef .         For shopinig Trenton has improved alot in 20 years that I have been her  still not got great but better two main stores are Walmart, Canadian Tire  and Zellers ,   Others incled Rogers video  marks worth ware houss bell world  Grocers stores are Independent ,  A&P  ,   and Price chopers     also GM Dealer ship  Ford  and Chrysler all in town .  Also the usual resturants Kelsy's Rumours ( German cooking good place a bit expensive )  if you like Fish and chips  there is Britanas  and ace sub marine  and McD's  harvey's and A&W just opened plus alot of Tim Hortons . Oh Yes almost forgot for the love of money avoid going to Walmart  the beer store and liquor store at the end of the month trust me I am doing you a favor on that one  ;D.  So if you have teenagers lots of places for part time  jobs 
              IF your looking to by a house  good areas are  off of sydney street  Panelas cres than over the other  side with hollandale and summer side  and byron  st not to bad  a nice neighbour hood is over on Fleming  newer subdavision  homes a bit expensive there but quite area .       Hope this helps but if you want ot know any thing else about Trenton Civy side  of life fire me a PM  and I will try and help out if i can  after  next week I am not sure how much access I will have to the internet  I am off to basic   Cheers


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## hauger (22 Mar 2007)

Oh 3green, 3green, 3green.  Why for you not give me a call on this one?  Seriously man, we were on the phone yesturday. I'm quite sure I'm in the exact same situation, albiet with 8 wing experience only.  Keep in mind, Belleville (40,000+ pop) is a whopping 17 km away.  Many live in Prince Edward County for that nice, yuppie country living.  Another option, one I'm keeping in my back pocket, is to live in Napanee (yep, home to Avril Lavigne) which, although not a mecca of high-class living, does geographically place you roughly half way between Kingston and 8 wing.....a plan that ensures both you and yours a life of commuting, but allows the significant other easier access to the jobs of Kingston.


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## pylon (22 Mar 2007)

Bobby Rico said:
			
		

> Do yourself a favor, go to Winnipeg.



Obviously you've never been to Winnipeg.


kc


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## Zoomie (23 Mar 2007)

hauger said:
			
		

> Another option, one I'm keeping in my back pocket, is to live in Napanee ...



That may not be an option if you are ever posted to the SAR squadron.

The trash haulers fly plenty these days - unfortunately it is usually for 3-4 month long stints over in Afghanistan.  You can plan on at least two of these per year.  Upgrading to AC is slower due to the Ops Tempo that the TAL boys are seeing - priority goes to the mission and not to Force Generation.  Pretty cool flying and you get shot at too!

SAR is a good gig for the family man or if you have a lead allergy (like the 7.62mm variant).  Really cool flying - low and slow.  Never flying to the same place twice - not doing sked trash runs carrying food and garbage.  A good number of hours with lots of time at home to work on your other projects/hobbies.

At 435 Sqn you are either a SAR guy/gal or a TAL/Air-to-Air crew.  435 is sending their crew to Afghanistan - not enough crews at 436 to staff all the positions, so if that is your bag, giddee up!


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## C1Dirty (23 Mar 2007)

My opinion only:

Most hours:  435(AAR) and 436
Most time at home:  424 or 435(SAR)
Most money:  436 (extra 2500/month tax free while deployed x 2-4 months/year) 
Most time away:  436
Winnipeg - good city close to nothing
Trenton - marginal but close to Toronto, Kingston and Ottawa

It's a good decision to have to make.


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## Sloaner (23 Mar 2007)

I can comment on the Belleville workforce question for you.  There is quite a bit of non-service sector employment in and around the area (although there is more of the "do you want fries with that work").  Belleville hosts an abnormally high volume of Government departments and agencies which can be a good gig for your spouse to get into as they can move her around on priority lists if/when you get posted elsewhere (same goes for Winnipeg though).  The area has had an influx of telecenters and call centers open up in the last few years which has provided a slightly higher skill base in the area.  The business expanssion of Belleville has been steady since about 2001/2002 so I would say there will be opportunities in the white collar world, but the market will be a little competetive depending on the exact line of work your spouse is interested in.  I was in the community for almost 9 years until moving up here to Ottawa in 2005 but still visit regularly and things are constantly improving in the city.  For lifestyle, its a great place for young families, but not so hot for the young and single crowd.


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## kingfisher (23 Mar 2007)

Bobby Rico said:
			
		

> Furthermore, it has an unusually high rate of petty crimes due to the slum areas of the town.
> 
> Do yourself a favor, go to Winnipeg.



...mmmm...Winnipeg doesn't have those type of problems.  :

That being said, Belleville is nicer but more expensive and still a smaller city.


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## observor 69 (23 Mar 2007)

Anyone mention Winterpeg has the U of Manitoba but you have to drive to Kingston to go to Queens U.


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## Gramps (23 Mar 2007)

The Best part of Trenton is it is close to Toronto. The worst part is the crack heads and tweekers. Its really not too bad, there are worse places to be.


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## riggermade (23 Mar 2007)

Personally I spent three years in Trenton and have nothing good to say about it....there has been a small bit of expansion but it has been a tough fight as there is a small core of business people who want to control everything...Trenton could have one of the best waterfronts around if there was some investment made...if I had to go back I would not live in Trenton but some of the surrounding communities are not bad


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## Bobby Rico (24 Mar 2007)

I think as long as you don't venture far from the PMQs in Trenton, you're pretty much okay.  Just stay away from the 'high rise'.


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## gaspasser (24 Mar 2007)

I've heard there are some nice subdivisions around base, even up in Frankford and out Brighten way.  It's only "safe" here in the Q's because they are patrolled constantly by the MP's.
Crime is everywhere, so don't base any judgement on that factor.
Cheers, BYTD


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## FSTO (25 Mar 2007)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Anyone mention Winterpeg has the U of Manitoba but you have to drive to Kingston to go to Queens U.


+ U of Winnipeg (pretty Leftish) and Red River Technical College.

If you like the Canadian Shield lake country it is within an hour drive to the east. Winnipeg and Grand Beach (you have to see it to believe it) is 80 km to the north.
Link: http://www.grand.beach.mb.ca/thebeach.html

Winnipeg and Manitoba are pretty good places to live. Being from Manitoba I find that Manitobans themselves are the absolute worst Ambassadors for their own province. If all you do is moan and drip about how bad it is then the rest of the country is going to think the same thing.

Happy postings!


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## 32a (25 Mar 2007)

3Green, consider your subsequent postings.  As a pipeliner, you're looking at two flying tours before a potential ground tour.  If you start off in Winnipeg, your second trash-hauling flying tour will likely be somewhere else.  However, you could continue with Air Mobility in Trenton through several flying and ground tours.  How does moving around fit into your plans?  Priorities do change over time. 

Personally, I prefer Winnipeg over Trenton.  Wpg has excellent shopping, entertainment and recreation but you do have further to go to the next city.  Manitoba's sunny days and "dry cold" are also better than Ontario's "hot and humid" pollution and daily "fecal count" beach closures.  Given the choice, I'd go to... Comox.


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## RetiredRoyal (4 Apr 2007)

I was with 440 Sqn, Edmonton and then moved to Winnipeg..posted to 435 Sqn during their upheaval.

I also worked in 402 as a reserve after I left the reg force.

My opinion, winnipeg sucks.

If you like motorcycles, don't come here. Insurance is outrageous. They run a system where you pay for a year, no rebate if you cancel, even though we only have 4 good riding months. If you ride a bike over 1000cc and declare it's value at less than $1000 (basically, you get nothing if you write it off) you'll be lucky to get insurance for less than $1500.

Property taxes are nuts. I moved from a house in Gibbons, north of Edmonton to Winnipeg. Smaller cheaper house, double the taxes. 

As far as teh squadrons go, I don't have an informed opinion these days, it's been too long. I know I hate the long cold winters and short wet summers, I miss being able to insure and ride my bike on a whim.

Housing is fair though, but rising at a sickening pace. There are jobs here for dependents as well. For me, it's quality of life. I'm getting back in and it looks like i'm heading to Borden.


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## Gramps (11 Apr 2007)

My opinnion of the town of Trenton is rapidly deterriorating. I like the base and my job but there really are some trashy people in this town.


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## 3green (16 Apr 2007)

Thanks for all the good input. I may not have any choice in the matter, but it seems of late that people are fortunate enough to have a chance of getting what they ask for out of Portage. Comox, close to where I grew up, is MY first choice in terms of community to live in. But the "fries with that?" economy there isn't very conducive to the "happy wife = happy life" equation. I have lived in the 'Peg on OJT, I know what to expect there. My only memory of Trenton was CAPSS but I can see the smaller community has its draw backs. Thanks again.


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## dimsum (28 Dec 2007)

I know I'm resurrecting an old topic, but...

As a Nav (I know we're getting the J Hercs...bear with me!) could it be possible to get posted to Trenton and spend all your postings (or at least 1 posting per sqn) based out of there?  I don't suppose we're getting the J's all at the same time now, are we?  Does it/has it happened before?


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## Zoomie (28 Dec 2007)

The answer to your question is not quite so cut and dried.  If current fleet allocations and postings were to remain - you could very well spend multiple tours in Trenton with "postings down the hall".

The J Model Hercules is slated to take on and replace the current E/H mix that is conducting TAL operations.  The only TAL squadron in the CF is 436 Sqn - 435 does cross-train in TAL yet will most likely not continue to do this when a mixed fleet is thrown in the works.  


Along with 424 Sqn in Trenton; 435 Sqn (Winnipeg) and 413 Sqn (Greenwood) currently fly Hercs in the FWSAR role - they will not be getting J's.  They will continue to fly the low-time H models while waiting for the FWSAR replacement aircraft to arrive (circa 2015).  Herc navigators could expect postings to bounce between those squadrons once the J-models arrive in YTR.

FWSAR is not expected to employ Navigators either - possible some sort of sensor operator.


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## infamous_p (22 Oct 2009)

Everyone, 

I would like to revive this thread a little bit, as I would like some insight as well... as much as I can get.

I'm graduating in six months, approaching the time to submit OJT posting preferences (I'm a pilot-awaiting-training). At this point, I'm torn between Trenton and Winnipeg. My interest is heavily in the multi-engine transport world.

I'm looking for as much information as I can get about both the bases and the cities (in the case of CFB Trenton, information on Belleville living would be appreciated). How is the work environment on either of the bases, at any of the squadrons, career opportunities at each base, atmosphere, quality of living in each city, etc. Where shall a young 2Lt have a more fruitful OJT experience?

And, of course, the ultimate question: which would you choose, and why? 

Any and all information would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


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