# "Moobs" - What are the options to remove them?



## Silently Suffering

Hi, I wish to remain anonymous as this issue is very sensitive to me.   I have a condition known as "gyno". 

Moobs. B*tch T*ts. Poofy Nips. There are more names. I know, I've been called them all. 

Most times you hear of this, it is some roid head who grew boobs after a cycle or 2 too many. 

What you don't hear is up to 60% of men are stuck with this condition from puberty on. 

I am 27 years old. Ive spent 7 of those in Cbt Arms. To say that I've grown a thick skin is to say the least. But that skin is wearing thin. 

There is nothing I can do about them. No amount of PT, diet or anything works.   I spend most days wearing at least 2 t-shirts at once trying to compress them.   Very uncomfortable, especially in hot weather, or in the field trying to be as light as possible. 

There is pain. The glands under the nipples are aggravated, and very sensitive to pressure. Running (obviously), body armour (compression) are very painful. And I'm tired of sucking it up. I shouldn't have to deal with this anymore. 

There is the emotional. I haven't been topless at a beach since is was 13. Same for pools. If I can get out of it, I avoid going to places like this at all costs. I am so embarrassed. It goes as far as avoiding communal showers because of it. Can you imagine being in the field for a month, finally getting a chance at a quick rinse, and being petrified, trying to get out of it?  It's gross. It's unsanitary, so I go, but the stress is ridiculous. 

I haven't been topless in front of my wife more than maybe 3-5 times. Ever. She doesn't care, but I can't bring myself to take my top off. Not unless it's night and the lights are off, and even then. I don't want her to touch them. 

I can barely look myself in the mirror without wanting to puke. I don't want to come off sounding vain, at all. But this really bothers me, and it has for over half my life. 

I hear of people going through sex changes, paid for by the military, others just straight up milking the system. I've given 7 good hard years, and am staying in it for the long haul (IE25) at least. Is there some way I can approach this to get at least some of the cost covered?  

I have a young family to support, and the minimum $3000 (for who knows what quality) for male breast reduction is so far out of my budget it's ridiculous. 

It's a physical issue. A confidence issue, and it's a quality of life issue that has taken me to my wits end. I don't know what to do, but I'm tired of suffering in pain from this. I'm tired of being ashamed. I'm just tired of it.


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## PMedMoe

Make an appointment with an MO.  If there is pain, etc, that may be justification for reduction surgery.  Also, make an appointment with psych/social.  You might not want to, but surgery _might_ get approved due to self esteem issues.

In the meantime, good on you for sticking things out.  I can't imagine what you're going through.


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## Blackadder1916

Nowhere in your post do I see mention of any medical consultation/intervention for your condition.  Have you seen the quacks to discuss your medical problem?  If not, then that is the first (and probably only) avenue you need take.  While I am now retired from the CF and thus no longer current with the specifics of the spectrum of care, I was familiar with several cases of breast reduction surgery (both female and male) for serving members.


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## Silently Suffering

Thanks for the input. Believe it or not, it is the pain that bothers me most. Not being as effective at my job as I could be is the worst of it. 

Black adder, thanks to you too. I've never mentioned this to anyone. Ever. It has taken me years to get to the point of reaching out anonymously on the Internet. But your advice is very much appreciated, and even suggests a glimmer of hope.


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## RememberanceDay

Hey,

I wish I could say that I know what you're going through, but that would be lying. High-fives for seeking help for this, I know how hard it can be to reach out for ANYTHING, physiological or other self-esteem issues. I don't have much experience in this area, though, but the above ideas seem like the right track.

Props, dude.


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## medicineman

I've known lots of guys who got breast tissue removed for lots of good reasons - psychological issues, history of breast cancer in the family (yes guys get it too), pain, etc.  Talk to your MO.

MM

PS- the condition is "gynecomastia" - a gyno is who I send women to for getting their nether regions checked out  .

MM


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## Silently Suffering

I was so shocked to find that there are dudes out there that go through this. But then again, I go to through much effort to keep it secret, why wouldn't they?  Can I get an appointment with an MO or shrink without first going to sick parade?


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## BernDawg

You should be able to call the MIR and request an appt with an MO. Then notify your CoC that you have an appt at X day and time, you don't have to tell them why.


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## Eye In The Sky

If you want to talk to a Mental Health professional, but want to avoid the MIR to start, why not call the Member Assistance Program?  I've used them in the past, so has my wife.  I can't say a bad thing about it from my experience.  In my location, you don't go near the Base Hosptial at all, and I even went in civies.  

Might be a start point on the MH side to break the ice and get things moving kinda thing.   :nod:

CF Member Assistance Program (MAP)


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## Strike

Even if you can't get the time to go to an appointment but can pull off hitting sick parade, just tell them you need to see an MO.  When they take your vitals and ask what the issue is, tell them it's personal and you want to see an MO.  When you see the MO, be frank.  They can handle medical options (reduction) and can also help set you up with MH for the self-esteem issues, which you will probably have to deal with after surgery, should you end up going that route.

Good luck and kudos for coming out here and asking for help.


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## armyvern

Silently Suffering said:
			
		

> I was so shocked to find that there are dudes out there that go through this. But then again, I go to through much effort to keep it secret, why wouldn't they?  Can I get an appointment with an MO or shrink without first going to sick parade?



Please, once you get your appointment, be straight up with them. Let them know about the pain, the psychological issues that you are having with the situation and the pains/lengths that you are going to avoid their 'detection'. They will help you with all of the above, but you need to make them aware of all the details and that for you, this is a priority to your mental and physical well-being.

I wish you well in your journey. Keep your chin held high.

Vern


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## Pusser

All of the advice given thus far is really good.  Please follow it and don't worry about repercussions from your chain of command or your mates - because they should never find out.  Even your CO doesn't need to know the details.  You have a RIGHT to confidentiality on this.  The only thing that your CO will be told is about any limitations you may have (e.g. needing Sick Leave to recover from surgery).  The medical folks won't tell him the details and you don't have to either.

In the short term, have you tried vaseline on your nipples when exercising?  Synthetic (especially mesh) materials in exercise wear are hard on everybody's nipples.  I've found vaseline to be quite helpful.

Good luck.


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## PMedMoe

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Please, once you get your appointment, be straight up with them. Let them know about the pain, the psychological issues that you are having with the situation and the pains/lengths that you are going to avoid their 'detection'. They will help you with all of the above, but you need to make them aware of all the details and that for you, this is a priority to your mental and physical well-being.
> 
> I wish you well in your journey. Keep your chin held high.
> 
> Vern



 :goodpost:

I agree.  Even if you have to print out what you posted here and bring it in, let them know how this is affecting you.



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> All of the advice given thus far is really good.  Please follow it and don't worry about repercussions from your chain of command or your mates - because they should never find out.  Even your CO doesn't need to know the details.  You have a RIGHT to confidentiality on this.  The only thing that your CO will be told is about any limitations you may have (e.g. needing Sick Leave to recover from surgery).  The medical folks won't tell him the details and you don't have to either.



Exactly.  No one needs to know _why_ you have a medical appointment.



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> In the short term, have you tried vaseline on your nipples when exercising?  Synthetic (especially mesh) materials in exercise wear are hard on everybody's nipples.  I've found vaseline to be quite helpful.



Good advice, but I believe it's the glands underneath that are causing the pain.


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## MedCorps

Over the years I have seen a few other men in the CF come to get treatment for this problem. IMHO they were well managed both socially and technically.  

It is an important thing to get checked out and not just live with.  Not just because of the appearance problems, but gynecomastia can be the result of something more sinister (thyroid, liver, kidney, hormonal, testicular, etc problems).  These things need to be checked out to ensure they are not the cause (some medications and herbals also can cause it).  Gynecomastia can also just happen for no reason (called idopathic gynecomastia) but you will never know unless you go get checked out.  

Often when the underlying cause is fixed the problem goes away.  There is also medication to treat pain and tenderness that I have seen used in the CF - once. If there is no cause of the problem I have a CF members get plastic surgery to correct the problem and another one have a suction lipectomy at a civilian clinic to fix the problem.  

Good luck and if you need anything drop me line.

MC


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## Silently Suffering

I want to start by expressing my extreme gratitude to everyone that has posted on this. Your support is such a massive relief. It's quite obvious what I need to do. I think it's going to take some time to get psyched up enough to get in and get working on this. But you guys (and gals) have helped so much already. You have no idea how much of a relief it is to hear positive words related to this. I really appreciate it. 

MedCorps, that is some scary stuff. I've only just started looking into this condition, as I just thought it was something to b endured, but it looks like its more serious (possibly) than just having knockers. I'm going to have to do a lot more self-education on this. Thank you for your knowledge on this topic.


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## armyvern

Silently Suffering said:
			
		

> I want to start by expressing my extreme gratitude to everyone that has posted on this. Your support is such a massive relief. It's quite obvious what I need to do. I think it's going to take some time to get psyched up enough to get in and get working on this. But you guys (and gals) have helped so much already. You have no idea how much of a relief it is to hear positive words related to this. I really appreciate it.
> 
> MedCorps, that is some scary stuff. I've only just started looking into this condition, as I just thought it was something to b endured, but it looks like its more serious (possibly) than just having knockers. I'm going to have to do a lot more self-education on this. Thank you for your knowledge on this topic.



You could look at it this way in a means to "psyche yourself up":

Step 1) Admitting to yourself that you need help - check;
Step 2) Admitting (even anonymously) to a bunch of idiots on the internet that you need help; people who can listen, but can not physically help you - check;

Step 3) Walk in and see the "professionals" and just flat out let them know what's going on with you ... people who actually can help you on the physical side of the house with complete confidentiality and knowledge. 

Step 3 isn't such a big step anymore. Just remember that you've already told us, so telling them is big, but secondary. Strangers know. Your journey has already begun.

If hesitant to talk about it with them, take Moe's advice and print this thread out and take it in with you. I can almost guarantee that you'll find their reaction relieving, professional and immediatly of help.


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## Armymedic

MedCorps said:
			
		

> Over the years I have seen a few other men in the CF come to get treatment for this problem. IMHO they were well managed both socially and technically.
> 
> It is an important thing to get checked out and not just live with.  Not just because of the appearance problems, but gynecomastia can be the result of something more sinister (thyroid, liver, kidney, hormonal, testicular, etc problems).  These things need to be checked out to ensure they are not the cause (some medications and herbals also can cause it).  Gynecomastia can also just happen for no reason (called idopathic gynecomastia) but you will never know unless you go get checked out.
> 
> Often when the underlying cause is fixed the problem goes away.  There is also medication to treat pain and tenderness that I have seen used in the CF - once. If there is no cause of the problem I have a CF members get plastic surgery to correct the problem and another one have a suction lipectomy at a civilian clinic to fix the problem.
> 
> Good luck and if you need anything drop me line.
> 
> MC



What he said.

Treatment is a mastectomy.


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## The Bread Guy

SS, as ArmyVern said, if you're comfortable sharing this kind of thing via the interwebs (where the potential for poking with a stick is not zero), you've taken a *huge* step forward.  Letting medical professionals know about this and getting their help is the next one.

Well done, and good luck in your search for help - if you're comfortable doing so, let us know how it goes.


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## ballz

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Even if you have to print out what you



I think that is an excellent idea. If you don't think you can open up face-to-face and get your point across, then print if off. If an MO reads that post, they will take you seriously and help you.*

*Not suggesting they wouldn't anyway.


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## resolute

I've seen 2 or 3 patients similarly afflicted in the past couple of years.  One was lost to follow-up, but to the best of my knowledge, none of them had any serious etiologies to cause their symptoms.  

While I don't think this applies to your case, one thing I would suggest is to ensure you are not taking any supplements (other than perhaps whey protein or creatine).  At least one individual I've seen had a history of taking "herbal supplements" that had "hormonal sounding names" and may have been prohormones.  In consultation with another military physician, we are under the impression that an "exogenous" or "self-induced" gynecomastia might not be covered by the CF.  You'd almost certainly get blood work done for a hormonal profile with those physical findings, and interpretation of the results is made significantly more difficult if a member is taking a bunch of supplements (especially frustrating when he or she doesn't knows the names or compositions of any of them).

Good luck.


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## Pusser

However, if it's self-induced by the use of supplements, can it be reversed simply by ceasing their use?


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## resolute

Can the gyno be reversed by simple cessation of the supplements?  My understanding is, "Yes" and "No."  There obviously aren't much data on this, as the bodybuilding community doesn't exactly volunteer all the side effects of their regimes to medical professionals, or offer themselves up for experiments very readily.  Based on general medical knowledge and anecdotes from colleagues, I believe that short-term gynecomastia (say, <3 months of prohormone use) is fairly readily reversible, partly because the "swelling" might represent cells that are only partially differentiated (this would be similar to the phenomenon experienced by many adolescent males who are making so much testosterone, that significant quantitites temporarily "spill over" to estrogen and progesterone).  After prolonged, heavy usage, when an actual "donut" of firm tissue can be palpated beneath the areola ... in most cases, I think surgical correction is required.

I am neither an endocrinologist nor a surgeon, so I have been deliberately a bit vague in the above descriptions.  However, the general principles do apply.

 :-\


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## Sinistril

I almost wanted to post this in the Mental Health section because I will be blunt - there is no pain; however, my "moobs" have taken a mental strain on me. I have had them since puberty, I guess, and they seem to stick around no matter how lean I get. I feel like developing my chest has helped slightly, and I am going to try one last cut to get to sub-10% body fat before I action anything, but I need them gone for my self-esteem. I spend a seriously large amount of time thinking about them, researching ways to get rid of them, etc and sometimes I can't focus because of this.

That said, I am not seeking a hand-out from the military, I am willing to pay to seperate myself from them, and even take my own vacation days for the healing. My problem is, I am absolutely unwilling to bring it up. I am frankly embarassed. I have my yearly AC medical coming up and was considering bringing it up to the FS, but everything I think about it I just get nervous and know I would never bring it up.

On to my questions, I am wondering if I am allowed to get elective surgery like this at a local faciliate, on my own dime, without consent from the military? Could I get in trouble for this? Is there any way to make bringing it up during my medical easier? Will the doc laugh me silly?

From my understanding it is about 3-4,000 to get it done, and I am willing to spend that on my self-esteem, but my worry is if there are complications I could get in trouble from the military. I was also contemplating just going to the place for a consultation, surely that would cause no harm. 

Anyways, sorry for unloading on this forum. I do not really know where else to turn for advice. If this is in the wrong forum, please move it mods thank you. 

- Troubled guy with moobs.


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## JoeDos

Sinistril said:
			
		

> I almost wanted to post this in the Mental Health section because I will be blunt - there is no pain; however, my "moobs" have taken a mental strain on me. I have had them since puberty, I guess, and they seem to stick around no matter how lean I get. I feel like developing my chest has helped slightly, and I am going to try one last cut to get to sub-10% body fat before I action anything, but I need them gone for my self-esteem. I spend a seriously large amount of time thinking about them, researching ways to get rid of them, etc and sometimes I can't focus because of this.
> 
> That said, I am not seeking a hand-out from the military, I am willing to pay to seperate myself from them, and even take my own vacation days for the healing. My problem is, I am absolutely unwilling to bring it up. I am frankly embarassed. I have my yearly AC medical coming up and was considering bringing it up to the FS, but everything I think about it I just get nervous and know I would never bring it up.
> 
> On to my questions, I am wondering if I am allowed to get elective surgery like this at a local faciliate, on my own dime, without consent from the military? Could I get in trouble for this? Is there any way to make bringing it up during my medical easier? Will the doc laugh me silly?
> 
> From my understanding it is about 3-4,000 to get it done, and I am willing to spend that on my self-esteem, but my worry is if there are complications I could get in trouble from the military. I was also contemplating just going to the place for a consultation, surely that would cause no harm.
> 
> Anyways, sorry for unloading on this forum. I do not really know where else to turn for advice. If this is in the wrong forum, please move it mods thank you.
> 
> - Troubled guy with moobs.



So I can try my best here to reply, with my best of knowledge. I had "Moobs" since puberty, they got to about a C cup, I had surgery 1 year before accepting my first offer into the armed forces. In all brutal honesty please bring it up to the FS, I know the mental anguish of doing that is stressful but you wont regret it if you can get them to confirm that you're able to get it done. 

When I had my first medical last year, all I did was bring in a crap load of paperwork that the surgeon had given me (pre-op and post-op information), and they didn't even bat an eye at it. 

It is cosmetic surgery but it also has a huge impact on your mental state, for my case I healed up exceptionally quick, you'll be in a bit of pain after the surgery so no heavy lifting or strenuous activity for 2-3 weeks, I started working out again after 2 weeks, and I was back to work a week after the surgery(Though my job at the time wasn't physically demanding at all). I hope I gave you a bit of a push, and I hope all goes well.


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## MedCorps

Sinistril said:
			
		

> That said, I am not seeking a hand-out from the military, I am willing to pay to seperate myself from them, and even take my own vacation days for the healing. My problem is, I am absolutely unwilling to bring it up. I am frankly embarassed. I have my yearly AC medical coming up and was considering bringing it up to the FS, but everything I think about it I just get nervous and know I would never bring it up.
> 
> On to my questions, I am wondering if I am allowed to get elective surgery like this at a local faciliate, on my own dime, without consent from the military? Could I get in trouble for this? Is there any way to make bringing it up during my medical easier? Will the doc laugh me silly?



You should talk to your primary clinician (MO / NP / PA) before undertaking elective surgery outside of the CAF.  There is nothing wrong with seeking elective surgery outside of the CF health system on your own dime, but a visit to the CDU and a quick annotation in your chart with prevent anyone suggesting that you are "concealing a disease" (which is illegal under the QR&O) and will provide protection if for some reason you have post surgical complications and require follow up support from the CF Health Service. 

When you bring it up with your doc just remember this is nowhere near the craziest problem they have seen and likely will not even drawn any notable attention or garnish real curiosity.  Now, if you had a double genitalia, a coke bottle in your rectum or a Thai worm coming out of your nose that might draw some attention.  Sadly, (or lucky for you) mobbs rates on the scale as "infrequently seen, but predicable in family practice". I am not trying to minimize your situation, but a "strange problem" for a patient is often just a routine day for someone who sees medical problems all day. The best way to bring it up is during your physical. After he is done listening to your heart with the stethoscope, just point to your breasts and say, "I got a question about these". 

Good luck and PM me if you have any questions. 

MC


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## Pusser

Any doctor who would laugh at a patient for a medical problem (particularly one that is not self-inflicted) should undergo a period of serious self-reflection to determine whether he/she is suited to the profession.  Remember that these are people who sometimes need to get more intimate with a patient than even with their own spouses.


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## medicineman

I've known of more than a few guys that have had reduction mammoplasty at Crown expense - especially when it was pointed out that they had a lot breast cancer in their families.  As for the referral - odds are you'll get it.

Incidentally, I've got the same issue...just never worried me that much.  I was in fact offered a referral, as a second degree relative in my family died of breast cancer.

MM


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## dapaterson

MedCorps said:
			
		

> Now, if you had a double genitalia, a coke bottle in your rectum or a Thai worm coming out of your nose that might draw some attention.



My wife, a public health nurse, would probably describe that as a slow Monday...


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## PMedMoe

medicineman said:
			
		

> I've known of more than a few guys that have had reduction mammoplasty at Crown expense



And I know of females who've had _"enhancements"_ at Crown expense.

Sinistril, take the advice here and go see an MO.


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## Sinistril

Thank you guys. I was actually afraid to look at this thread but your replys have given me confidence to bring it up at my medical. I know it isn't much but you all made my day. 

Cheers


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