# Unit History



## retired@23 (7 May 2005)

I have been interested in unit and medical history for quite some time. 

Does anyone here any evidence that there is a longer standing Medical unit than 23 Field Amb. The dates are from memory I lost most of my documents when I moved and put them in a safe place. 


It started with #7 Bearer company raised in Dec 1900. (#1 - 4 were raised in June of 1900) #1 Halifax went to South Africa (i think)
Comanded by George S Rennie MD  latter CO of an Artillery unit in WW1 and MP for Hamilton East

than on the reorg of the medical service in circa 1907 was named #12 and #19 was added latter.

in 1914 at the start of WW1 No 5 field Amb CEF was raised in Hamilton with recruits from Owen Sound and London as well.

105 years of service to the community of Hamilton in War and Peace.



#12 and 19 stayed in Hamilton

In 1919 No 5 was stood down, REORG again  

in 1920 In honour of overseas service No 12 was renamed No 5 Field Amb and went Overseas in 1939

No 12 was stood down circa 1932.

Reorg again  circa 1954
5 field amb was renamed 16 medical Company

reorg again circa 1973 
16 medical company was renamed 23 Med Coy 

reorg again circa 2003 
23 Med coy was renamed 23 fd amb


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## Jungle (7 May 2005)

retired@23 said:
			
		

> Reorg again   circa 1954
> 5 field amb was renamed 16 medical Company


5 Field Amb is alive and well, now named "5eme Ambulance de Campagne" and part of 5 CMBG.


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## shadow (7 May 2005)

www.forces.gc.ca/cfms_history

I didn't go through it, but there might be some information that would be helpful.  It's an online version of a book my dad helped research that was released in '03.
Hope this helps..
Shadow


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## old medic (7 May 2005)

retired@23 said:
			
		

> I have been interested in unit and medical history for quite some time.
> 
> Does anyone here any evidence that there is a longer standing Medical unit than 23 Field Amb. The dates are from memory I lost most of my documents when I moved and put them in a safe place.
> 
> ...



The Directorate of History and Heritage does not allow medical units to claim any linage before the creation
of the Canadian Army Medical Corp. (CAMC). Thus units can only trace back to 1904.

General Order Number 5 created the Field Units of the CAMC in 1906. 8 Calvary Field Ambulances, 15 Field Ambulances, 2 Clearing Hospitals (all Reserve).  Many of these are the current Reserve Force Field Ambulances. It also means they share the same dates
of creation. 

This also means that in 2006 many of the Reserve Field Ambs will mark their official 100th Birthdays.

The 1919-1920 Re-Org was the result of the Otter Commision. There is an article about it in the Fourth Dimension archive. 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/fourth_dimension/2005/jan05/31_fd_e.htm

It released the CAMC re-org in the spring of 1920.

5 (Hamilton) Field Ambulance RCAMC was renamed 16 Medical Company RCAMC in November 1954.
Then next Re-Orgs were in 1965 and 1975. 1965 was because of unification and the units were put underneath
the Service Battalions.  1975 was the re-creation of the independant companies and it was renamed
23 (Hamilton) Medical Company.

PM incoming.

OM


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## retired@23 (7 May 2005)

With respect to Directorate of History and Heritage The evidence does not support there claim.
There has been a Standing Medical Unit Hamilton since 04 Dec 1900. That has never reduced to Zero Strength. 

In addition If no history is recognized prior to 1904, than why does the Queens Mother Banner which the CFMS so Proudly Marched to (I have been the banner 's escort on 2 occasions) had the Dates 1885 to 1985 to mark 100 years of the Field Hospital sent to the Red River Rebellion. Which I have been told that #1 Field Hospital Claims anticedance. 

The other question sent to me was there has been a unit history written. It was Penned by Col Butson GC MD . . . . All in all not too bad a couple of errors and omissions. If you want a copy you can contact the unit in Hamilton. There was also one written about the first world war  called 'Stretcher Bearers at the Double.' There is  a copy in the special collection area of the Hamilton Public Library. 

So To answer my first question in my first post No there is not an older standing medical unit in the country.


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## Cansky (7 May 2005)

Quote from old medic
The Directorate of History and Heritage does not allow medical units to claim any linage before the creation
of the Canadian Army Medical Corp. (CAMC). Thus units can only trace back to 1904.

If this is true then why did 1 FD Amb celebrate its 100th aniversary in Sept of 1998?


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## TCBF (7 May 2005)

I am glad to read some medics are interested in their history.  My step-father was with 2 Fd Amb in WW2, from Sicily to  Apeldoorn.  I keep checking with 2 Fd Amb in Petawawa to see if there is a regimental history written, but no one seems to have taken the opportunity to do that while all those vets were alive, and now most are dead.


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## Cansky (7 May 2005)

I hope this link works as I haven't done this before.

http://www.army.dnd.ca/LFWA_HQ/Documents/Backgrounders/bg_1_FdAmb.PDF

On page 2 it states" On 1 July 1898, 1 Field Ambulance was formed with personnel who served with the forces as far back as the 1873 Riel Rebellion.  At the time of its inception, it was called NO. 1 Bearer Company."  
I let you read the rest as you wish.

Yes the  Canadian Army Medical Corp might be traced back to 1904 and be listed as the first medical unit but IMHO they wouldn't have let 1 FD AMB have a huge todo about 100 years if it wasn't true.  And believe me it was fairly large celebration.
Hope fully this link will help clear things up.
Kirsten


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## Gunner98 (8 May 2005)

More history to add to the file.  "No. 1 Field Hospital" was established 1 April, 1885 at the outbreak of the North-West Rebellion.  Before 1885, there was no fixed departmental medical staff, field hospital or ambulance service in existence to provide medical support to troops.  The Surgeon-General, at the time, Lieutenant Colonel Darby Bergin, directed that two field hospitals be established from the medical facilities in Montreal and Toronto.  The first Commanding Officer of No. 1 Field Hospital was Surgeon-Major C.M. Douglas, VC.  He remained the Commanding Officer until it was disbanded at a later date.


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## old medic (8 May 2005)

Good Questions all....

These sorts of things are not just restricted to the medical units either, Alot of the combat arms would like to trace their 
history back further then they are officially allowed. 

First, to reply to retired@23,  Alot of units claim history older than the Hamilton unit (1900), some right on the DND sites:

http://www.army.dnd.ca/33MEDICAL_PLATOON/Documents/33medn_e.html

" In the fall of 1898, members of the local St. John Ambulance were organized into No. 1 Bearer Company, Canadian Militia, by Dr. Carleton-Jones (later Major-General), as part of the Imperial Scheme of Defence for the Fortress of Halifax. This unit later served in the Boer War as part of 10 Field Hospital Company, 3rd Canadian Contingent. This was the first time in the nation's history that a formed, self-contained medical unit had been deployed for service in an overseas theatre. "

As Kirsten pointed out above, The current 1 Fd Amb claims 1898 as well.

Part of the reasoning for the 1904 date is that prior to the creation of the CAMC, Militia units were on their own to find doctors with
no overseeing body. In most cases, Doctors, Nurses and orderlies were contractors and only in rare cases were actually in the Militia.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/about_us/cfms_history/engraph/chapter1_e.asp?Lev1=5&Lev2=1&Lev3=2

" Until the end of the 19th century, each Canadian regiment recruited its own medical practitioners, and the Canadian Militia had no over-arching medical service...   

...The Canadian Army Medical Corps (CAMC) was formed under General Order No 98 of July 1904, to bring military health care providers together under unified command and control. Its regular component comprised only eight officers (all doctors) and 36 non-commissioned orderlies and storesmen. As well as the medical officers attached to the regiments of the Non-Permanent Active Militia, the reserve component of the CAMC included dental officers, the members of the Canadian Army Nursing Service (who bore officers' rank but were never permitted to exercise military authority), and non-commissioned orderlies and logistics personnel such as storesmen and drivers.

In 1906, the year Colonel Eugène Fiset was promoted from Director General Medical Services to Surgeon General, he organized the CAMC into field-deployable units. In 1914, the regular CAMC numbered 127 all ranks, namely 20 medical officers, five nursing sisters and 102 non-commissioned members. The reserve component was organized as an Army Hospital Corps with eight Cavalry Field Ambulances, fifteen Field Ambulances and two Clearing Hospitals.... "

This is also why Op Celebration last year was the 100th year of the Medical Service (1904-2004). 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/about_us/engraph/OpCel_home_e.asp

The date of 1885 is on the Queen Mother's Banner to recognize the first recorded instance of organized medical support to a Canadian field force.  It is important to remember that date isn't a battle honour. CSS formations can not be awarded battle honours. As that
formation was short lived and disbanded, individual units are prevented from tracing lineage to it.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhh/engraph/faqs_e.asp?category=hertra&FaqID=33#answer

" Non-combatant units and sub-units operating independently, operating as part of a formation, or attached or in support of a combatant unit cannot gain battle honours for themselves or their parent unit."

However, the rules of lineage come into play here.  You can't exist before your parent organization did.  That's why units are not allowed 
to trace anything before 1904.  I have a pub that says such regarding the medical units, and will post it once I re-discover it.


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## old medic (8 May 2005)

TCBF said:
			
		

> I am glad to read some medics are interested in their history.  My step-father was with 2 Fd Amb in WW2, from Sicily to  Apeldoorn.  I keep checking with 2 Fd Amb in Petawawa to see if there is a regimental history written, but no one seems to have taken the opportunity to do that while all those vets were alive, and now most are dead.



Good to hear Tom,

Tracing the Medical Units can be difficult because of the frequent name changes....
The Petawawa unit is relatively new.

The 2 Fd Amb you father would have been with:

2 (Toronto) Field Ambulance RCAMC
in 1954 it was combined with 7 and 16 Field Ambs and renamed to;
26 (Toronto) Medical Company RCAMC and renamed in 1975 to;
25 (Toronto) Medical Company


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## TCBF (8 May 2005)

Which is confusing as heck, as there still is a 2 Fd Amb in Pet. Though I think in the 70s for a bit, they were called Cbt Med Sup Us - CMSUnits.

I remember an article in the Der Kanadier (remember THAT?) about 4 Fd Amb, and it traced it's history to it's formation in Port Arthur or Fort William (both now Thunder Bay). 

Is someone keeping track of all this?


I forgot to add - 2 Fd Amb was in fact 2 Cdn Lt Fd Amb, and it supported the First Cdn Armoured Brigade.   I was amazed at how many other empire units my step-father worked with, until I read that 1 CAB was pulled from the Cdns and used as a "fire brigade" for the British 8th Army.   One of the British Army Commanders (Oliver Leese?) said " If you want a job done right, give it to the First Canadian Armoured Brigade."


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## old medic (8 May 2005)

TCBF said:
			
		

> I remember an article in the Der Kanadier (remember THAT?) about 4 Fd Amb, and it traced it's history to it's formation in Port Arthur or Fort William (both now Thunder Bay).
> 
> Is someone keeping track of all this?



I remember.. the 4 CMBG 4 Fd Amb donated alot of it memorabilia back to the Thunder Bay unit when it closed out. 
There are a few lineage books that trace the units from creation up to the late 1960's.

The lucky unit is Vancouver, it started as 12 Fd Amb, became 24 Med Coy, then 12 Med Coy,
and is now the only unit to have it's orginal number/name back - 12 Fd Amb.

Luck of all the re-numberings.


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## TCBF (8 May 2005)

I have two types of RCAMC battledress shouder flashes:

One type is"
                      ROYAL CANADIAN
                   ARMY MEDICAL CORPS
and the other is:
                  ROYAL CANADIAN ARMY
                       MEDICAL CORPS


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## retired@23 (8 May 2005)

One final set question than to those who know history. (I hope)

If the directorate took the CAMC as the parent formation. Than what was the name of the formation that the Bearer companies were raised under. one group was raised in June of 1900 and the second on the 4th of December 1900. the date I am certain of I actually have a photo copy of the order somewhere. I think they name was Canadian Army staff corps or words to that effect. 
What was the reasoning for not recognizing this org?
It fits there criteria of self sustaining organization that recruits it;s own medical personal. Maj GS Rennie was not impressed to leave the 13th battalion (now the RHLI) to command a medical unit. Or so the rumor goes

I am not certain of this date, However if Memory serves, 1898 was the formation of The RAMC, #1 Bearer company was not formed until June 1900 in Halifax.  Than sent to with the CEF to South Africa. 

The above post is correct about battle honours of CSS and Linage of combat arms. The Lincoln and Wellend locally trace it's unit back to circa 1796. However, no linage is accepted prior to the militia act of 1865. and the current numbering system established. The oldest unofficial combat arms unit is the Royal Newfound land, they fought in 1812 at Stoney Creek, (i sure someone will correct me) as well as others on the east coast. 

It is not that I am going to get worked up over a few years. It is just an academic Peer Review thing. Just because it has been written does not necessarily make it true. 



Murray


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## old medic (8 May 2005)

I think alot of it boils back the the Militia Act of 1904. It wasn't until then that two things happened. 
1 - The creation of many of the Army Corps.
2 - The structure actually came under Canadian Control

Possibly another problem is that the Halifax formations are actually considered British units for lineage purposes:

http://www.gg.ca/governor_general/comm-ch-bg_e.asp

 " The Militia was established by the Militia Act of 1868. In the 1870's, a small militia was based in Halifax under the command of a general officer on loan from the British Army.

In 1904, however, a new Militia Act stated that â Å“the Command-in-Chief of the Militia is declared to continue and be vested in the King, and shall be administered by His Majesty or by the Governor General as his representative.â ? This Act also doubled the permanent force to 4000, to provide a garrison to* replace the British in Halifax*.

This was an important landmark, as it was the beginning of a truly Canadian force, and it reinforced the role of the Governor General as Commander-in-Chief. In 1905, the change to the Militia Act was legalized and reference to the Office of the Governor General became the Office of the Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of the Militia. "

http://members.tripod.com/RegimentalRogue/battlehonours/grod_btlhnrs.htm

" Halifax was established as a garrison in 1749, and following the fall of New France, British garrisons extended into what later became Ontario and Quebec. The last of the garrisons left Canada in 1906."


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## retired@23 (8 May 2005)

SO what it boils down to is an act of Parliament stating the creation of the Army Corps. Hence the 1904 for Medical and 1865 for combat arms.
Even if the units were established before hand under specific General Orders. They were not truly Canadian Units until 1904.


Reasonable enough from a historic perspective. 
However I still say 104 Years of service to the Community of Hamilton in War and Piece
7 Bearer Company
19 Fd Amb CAMC
12 Fd Amb CAMC
5 Fd Amb CEF and RCAMC and than CEF yet again
16 Med Coy RCAMC
23 (Hamilton) Medical Company CFMS
now 

23 Fd Amb (CFHS???)

Murray



23 Fd Amb


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## old medic (8 May 2005)

Kirsten Luomala said:
			
		

> I hope this link works as I haven't done this before.
> 
> http://www.army.dnd.ca/LFWA_HQ/Documents/Backgrounders/bg_1_FdAmb.PDF
> 
> ...



It worked !! 
I read the document in the link.  I can't claim to have traced the history of 1 Fd Amb. 
I think it raised a few more questions however. 

I find it odd that they (in addition to the Halifax unit) claim to be descendant from the Halifax Bearer Company.
Someone will have to sit down some day with all the old General Orders, Militia Orders and CFOO's and figure that 
one out.  

Also of note are the sentences relating to WW1 and WW2. That appears to be the history of 
1 (Kingston) Field Ambulance RCAMC.  In 1954 it was renamed to 11 Medical Company RCAMC.
(Not to be confused with the unit in Victoria that was originally 13 Fd Amb). I haven't researched 
the fate of the Kingston unit, I suspect it was disbanded in the changes in either 59 or 65. 
I suspect that's the unit they are drawing the history from. 

My reference for that is:
THE CANADIAN ARMY 1855-1965 Lineages - Regimental Histories , By C.E. Dornbusch,  1966 Hope Farm Press Cornwallville New York

It's a rare book now, but can be found in some libraries.

_<edited spelling>_


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## old medic (8 May 2005)

retired@23 said:
			
		

> Reasonable enough from a historic perspective.
> However I still say 104 Years of service to the Community of Hamilton in War and Piece
> 7 Bearer Company
> 19 Fd Amb CAMC
> ...



If you can trace it, you should. I bet not to many people would be inclined to do it these days.

During WW2, it would have been refered to as 5 Fd Amb C.A.S.F. ( Canadian Active Service Force )
once activated.


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## TCBF (8 May 2005)

However, no linage is accepted prior to the militia act of 1865. and the current numbering system established. The oldest unofficial combat arms unit is the Royal Newfound land, they fought in 1812 at Stoney Creek, (i sure someone will correct me) as well as others on the east coast." 

The 8 CH (PL) birthday is 4 April 1848, due to the General Order on that day. They trace their lineage to Saunder's Horse, a unit that fought on the losing side of the American Revolution, and then landed  and settled in New Brunswick, maintaining their military capabilities, to a certain extent.

They celebrated their 150th Anniversary in 1998.


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## retired@23 (8 May 2005)

If you can trace it, you should. I bet not to many people would be inclined to do it these days.

During WW2, it would have been referred to as 5 Fd Amb C.A.S.F. ( Canadian Active Service Force )
once activated.  


I have traced it. That's the point of my argument.  I had all the documents lined up and assembled in 1993. The G.O. # the COs.  listed from one name change to the next. To prove that there was a Medical unit of Company or greater in Hamilton from 1900 in order to have a large official pde in the year 2000. With an honour guard in period uniforms. two changes in command and it was dropped as a priority.


I contacted the Di rectotate in Ottawa. They gave me a very polite we don't do that. We don't have the Man power. If you have done it than  that 's great. however we can authorized your research in any way shape or form. Have a nice day. 

So I had the CO of the Day present it to The Defence Medical Ass. in 1996 or 7 or there abouts asking if any one could challenge this date. Not one challenge came forward. even after the minutes were mailed to all members. 

As for the CASF after the 5 Field Amb for WW2 not a single vet I have met from the unit ever mentioned that set of initials the documents and photos I have read were either 5Fd Amb RCAMC or 5Fd Amb CEF.  Was this one of those Army HQ phrases that no one else in the real world uses. or did time just cloud these men's memory.

Murray


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## old medic (8 May 2005)

CASF designates a unit on Active Service (Reg Force) during WW2.
CEF refers to WW1.
You can see some examples of usage here:

http://www.regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/volmil/qc-inf/054FusSb.htm
http://www.regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/volmil/on-inf/034Ontar.htm

http://www.mts.net/~rwpgrif/Museum/origin_and_lineage.htm

"  90th Regiment Winnipeg Rifles contributed to the 8th Battalion, CEF on its formation in September 1914 ...
   during the Second World War The Royal Winnipeg Rifles mobilized The Royal Winnipeg Rifles, CASF, on 24 May 1940."

http://cap.estevan.sk.ca/SSR/nominal/history.html

" 11th Battalion, Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF), on its formation in September, 1914 ... 
    the Regiment mobilized the South Saskatchewan Regiment, CASF, on September 1, 1939 "

It's also found in the newspapers of the day. I have it on unit photos take in 1939 as 
" 4th Field Ambulance, R.C.A.M.C., C.A.S.F."

I doubt it would have been common in verbal usage.


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## medicineman (10 May 2005)

A Field Hygeine Platoon was raised from Kingston during the Second World War - # 3 or 35, can't remember which.

MM


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## old medic (10 May 2005)

Good Memory !!! 

Here's a Canadian Press article from Saturday September 30th 1939:

1st Division Announced

OTTAWA, Sept. 30 1939 (CP) - Hon. Norman Rogers, minister
of national defence, last night announced the composition of the
first Canadian division for overseas service and the names of 
the units selected to compose it. 

The division will consist of the following:
Divisional Headquarters.
Divisional cavalry, 1st Hussars, London.
Headquarters of divisional artillery.
Headquarters of 1st Field Brigade, R.C.A.
"A" and "B" batteries, R.C.H.A., Kingston.
"C" battery R.C.H.A., Winnipeg.
54th Field Battery (H) R.C.A. Brantford.
Headquarters of the 2nd Field Brigade, R.C.A.
10th (St. Catherines) Field Battery, R.C.A.
7th Field Battery, R.C.A., Montreal.
8th Field Battery, R.C.A., Moncton.
73rd Field Battery (H), R.C.A., Magog.
Headquarters of 3rd Field Brigade, R.C.A.
19th Field Battery, R.C.A., Winnipeg.
111th Field Battery, R.C.A., Nelson.
77th Field Battery, R.C.A., Moose Jaw.
92nd Field Battery, R.C.A., Edmonton.
Anti-tank regiment, R.C.A.
Headquarters of Divisional Engineers, R.C.E.
2nd Field Park Company, R.C.E., Toronto.
1st Field Company, R.C.E., Halifax.
3rd Field Company, R.C.E., Ottawa.
4th Field Company, R.C.E., Montreal.
Headquarters of Divisional Signals, R.C.C.S.
No. 1 Company, R.C.C.S., London.
No. 2 Company, R.C.C.S., Toronto.
No. 3 Company, R.C.C.S., Ottawa.
Headquarters of 1st Infantry Brigade.
The Royal Canadian Regiment, London, 
Toronto, St. Jean and Halifax.
48th Highlanders of Canada, Toronto.
Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment.
The Toronto Scottish regiment (machine gun).
Headquarters of 2nd Infantry Brigade.
Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry,
Winnipeg and Victoria. 
The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, Vancouver.
The Edmonton Regiment.
The Saskatoon Light Infantry (machine gun).
Headquarters of 3rd Infantry Brigade.
Royal 22nd Regiment, Quebec.
The West Nova Scotia Regiment.
The Carleton and York Regiment, New Brunswick.
The Royal Montreal Regiment (machine gun).
Headquarters of Divisional Army Service Corps, R.C.A.S.C.
Divisional Ammunition Company, Quebec.
Divisional Patrol Company, Hamilton.
Divisional Supply Column, London.
*No. 4 Field Ambulance, Fort William.
No. 5 Field Ambulance, Hamilton.
No. 9 Field Ambulance, Montreal.
No. 3 Field Hygiene Section, Kingston.*
Provost Company, R.C.M.P.
No. 3 Divisional Postal Unit, Kingston.
Employment Platoon, Toronto. 

	Mr. Rogers said this would be known as the first Canadian 
Division. while the other division, which had also been mobilizing,
will be known as the Second Canadian Division overseas, although
both will be trained and equipped for overseas service.
	Volunteers of these units, as announced at the special war
session of parliament, will be re-attested for overseas service.
	Several units of the permanent force will go overseas with
the First Division and provide a hard core of well trained soldiers.
	One battalion in each of the three infantry brigades is a 
permanent force unit. For the first brigade the permanent force unit
is the Royal Canadian Regiment, companies of which are stationed
at London, Toronto, St. Johns, Que., and Halifax.
	The Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry of Winnipeg
and Victoria heads the second brigade and the Royal 22nd regiment
of Quebec city the third brigade. Both these units perpetuate famous
battalions of the Canadian Corps in the first Great War.


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## RatCatcher (24 May 2005)

I hate asking this but what was the role of the Field Hygiene section... just wondering due to the act that I would like to get a history of the CF PMed Trade (the one in CFP 213 just doesnt cut it IMHO).


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## old medic (24 May 2005)

I can't really narrow it down for you, other than the obvious stuff,
but I have seen numerous documents from 3 Fd Hygiene Section 
showing them running an anti-malaria campaign in Italy.


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## TCBF (24 May 2005)

Fred Cedarburg (sp?) in his book "The Long Road Home" wrote of encountering some Canadians who were using some amazing new product called DDT.

To bad they still don't use it.  Tens of millions have died of Malaria since they banned it.


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## medicineman (26 May 2005)

DDT is/was a wonderful thing - down sides obviously is it gets into the food chain.  Also, there was alot of resistance developing to it, so it wouldn't be much use by now anyway.

Fd Hygeine sections if I recall, were used much as we use PMT's today - detection and removal of disease threats in the environment, advising commanders, educating soldiers and the like.


MM


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## old medic (26 May 2005)

Tablets of Mepacrine HCL (an antiprotozoal) were also standard issue in Italy, 
everyone had to take either two 0.2mg or four 0.1mg tablets per week.


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## TCBF (26 May 2005)

My step father and my uncle hated that stuff.  Said it made them look like they had jaundice.


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## old medic (27 May 2005)

A PMed Blast from the past: 
(spelling in context)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anti-Malaria Investigation Section.​20 Aug. 43​A.D.M.S.
1 Cdn Div.

   A conference was held at 13 Corps HQ., D.D.M.S., office near
Misterbianco at 0930 hrs. 19 Aug. 43. Brig. MacDonald, Lt-Cols.
Odbert, Morgan and Driscoll were present with all the Div. 
Spec. Mal. Off.

         Points discussed were: -----

1. Mepacrine.    Lt-Col. Morgan explained that there is and
has been existing various methods of days and amounts 
of Mepacrine administration. He was anxious to standardized
this for the whole of the 8th Army. The Cdn. method, they
agreed, of adm. on Mon. Tues. Thurs. and Fri. was perhaps 
better, but due to the Br. troops being used to 2 tabs on
Mon. and 2 on Thurs, all Div. representatives objected to
changing. The point was raised that 2 tabs gave a higher
blood conc and therefore might be more effocacious. On the
other hand the Cdn. method might allow of a lesser 
exhibition of disturbance or intolerance to Mepacrine 
An attempt was made by the Br. services to have the
Cdns change over to their methods but this was opposed 
for a variety of reasons, viz:--

1. The Cdn. division is used to and standardized on
M.T.T.F.
2. Signs covering the whole of the Cdn. Divisional area
are already erected and this would necessitate a great
deal of work to change over. The fact that the signs are
"trade-marked" with the red maple leaf, should lead to
no confusion of orders as to the different days of Mepacrine
for Br., troops.
3. It is felt that if a man happens to miss his Mepacrine 
day, then only 0.1gm. would be lost, instead of 0.2, or 
50% of his reg'd weekly dosage as in the case of Br. troops.

4 The intolerance to Mepacrine although recognized as low,
might conceivably be increased with double dosage on
specified days.
5. The psychological aspect that it is easier to take one 
than two tabs and also that there is less "mental resistance"

6. The recommendation of the advisers at the War Office
London, on the basis of experiments in West Africa, that
these days of Mepacrine adm. be tried in the Cdn forces.
The possibility of increasing the dosage to 6 tabs or
0.6gms. was discussed and seriously considered but the 
supply situation does not permit it, as this would
increase the amount by 50% which would run into millions
of tablets. It was emphasized that the Mepacrine situation
of Middle East resources is strained. Why ample supply
isn't available wasn't explained. The synthesis of
Mepacrine in the U.S.A., by the Winthrop Chemical Co.,
should be vast as this Co. had the formula, anticipated 
the coming war demand and started their production, which
has gone up tremendously, before the war started.
Lt-Col. Odbert stated that during the course of the 
campaign on Sicily the 13  & 30 Corps have drawn three times
the amount of Mepacrine that they were entitled. Allowing
for loss and damage under battle conditions, this is far
more than can be explained. Where did it go?

          (Con'd)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ---2-----

(Continuation)

A.D.M.S's msut keep a check on the stocks coming into their 
Divs, was what Odbert demanded.
Mepacrine should come up with the rations, be part of, and 
issued with the rations.
In the coming campaign the "Compo" ration period will be for
3 weeks. Brigadiers and C.O's must ensure the following:--

1.   14 days reserve supply with unit (in transport) which should
land not later than D + 3.
2.   14 days supply with and on the soldier which in the case of
1 Cdn Div. would be 8 tabs.
  The 13 Corps has been stopped up from 4 -- 6 weeks because of
their high Malarial incidence.
,   The policy of 4 tabs/wk. is the one in effect at present
and will remain so, at least for the present. The only exceptions
are 5 & 50 Div. and the Cdn. Army Tank Bde.
  It was admitted that six tabs/wk., far be easier to give
(every day except Sunday) but the supply of Mepacrine is limitied.
  Regarding administration of Mepacrine, it is pointed out that
the health of the troops is a C.O's responsibility and that this 
responsibility it allocated to the Btn. Officers. Therefore
it should be an Officers parade, if possible, with the M.O.,
occassionally attending to check up. If an officer parade is 
not possible, then the Senior N.C.O., or Platoon Sergant must see
to it.
  5 Div. is on two tablets per day of quinine for three days.

_Document goes on to discuss mosquito nets, etc._

OM


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## old medic (9 Jun 2005)

Here's Another look back.  It's come a long way!
Article from the news wire, May 21st 1941

OM
-----------------------------------------

ARMY MEDICS ARE MEN OF MANY JOBS

By Frank Flaherty
Canadian Press Staff Writer

OTTAWA - Water-testing is one of the important jobs of the Royal
Canadian Army Medical Corps. Men of the corps in training at the 
medical training center here learn how to test water supplies for 
poison and for sterility.
   Each medical unit carries a number of water-testing kits in action
and the task, with the equipment provided, is reasonably simple.
The poison test includes a chemical analysis but as the army goes on
the assumption that the only safe water is chlorinated there is no need
of an exhaustive bacteriological test to determine what, if any germs,
may be in the water. It is just a question of finding out how much 
chlorine need be added to make the water safe for men to drink.
   Water on a battle field may be poisoned either deliberately by the 
enemy or accidentally by the use of poison gas. Some gases are absorbed
by water and make it unfit for consumption.

OTHER FEATURES

   The hardest but most important part of medical work in the army is
stretcher-bearing. The stretcher bearers must learn to march out of step
when carrying a wounded man so that the jar of four carriers putting 
the same foot down at the same time will not make things uncomfortable
for the casualty.
   A thorough training in gas protection is also a part medical corps training.
The men must know how to protect themselves and their patients from
poison gas in its various forms. 

STORES AND DIETS

   Army medical work involves a more complicated job of storekeeping 
than other branches of the army and specially trained storekeepers are
required. In addition to the quartermasters' stores of food, clothing and
other material carried by all units, medical units have technical stores and
steward's stores.
   The steward is the man in the hospital who keeps track of rations, and
must be a good bookkeeper to see that hospital rations are not over-
drawn. If they are the officer commanding must pay for the excess out 
of his own pocket. So he must draw his rations carefully on the basis 
of the number of patients on each type of diet. 
   Drugs are usually looked after by men who were druggists in civilian
life and are skilled dispensers. Sometimes a man learns enough about 
dispensing through working under another dispenser to do the job even
if he is not a qualified druggist.

X-RAY SPECIALISTS

   A few men with a gift for electricity receive training in X-ray tech-
nique. Men who are particularly good at first-aid may be assigned to
hospital duties as nursing orderlies. Frequently these men are of 
smaller than average stature and are given this work because they 
are not suitable for the heavy job of stretcher bearing as the bigger 
men of the unit.
   When a man is wounded in the field he usually gets his first attention
from members of his own unit. Each combatant unit has a stretcher-
bearer section. Ordinarily a wounded man goes first to his battalion 
aid post. 
   There he is picked up by the medical corps. If an ambulance can't 
reach the aid post, he must be carried from the aid post by stretcher-
bearers. His next stop is at the casualty clearing station.
   This latter is the most advanced medical establishment equipped 
to do first-class surgery. Emergency operations may be performed. 
If pressure is not heavy wounded men may get considerable attention
there, but if casualties are heavy only the more acute cases will
receive complete attention. Less serious cases will be shot straight 
through on their way by train or motor to hospitals.


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## old medic (14 Jun 2005)

from the wire April 15th 1941

7 Light Field Ambulance would later be combined with two other Toronto units
( 2 Fd Amb and 16 Fd Amb ) and is now 25 Fd Amb.


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## old medic (20 Jun 2005)

Here's a wonderful monument to 9 Field Ambulance (now 51 Fd Amb)  and the RCE,
in the village of Merstham England.

The history of the building is near the bottom of the page.

http://www.merstham.co.uk/merstham/Canadahall.htm


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