# good 22LR pistol



## rz350 (23 Feb 2007)

I'm just getting my PAL, and looking to buy a first pistol. I want a 22LR Semi-automatic. I'm pretty much just asking for reconmendations on a resonably low price, resonably reliable/easy to use (i.e. not too picky about ammo brand) 22LR semi auto pistol that is Canada Legal. (105mm long barrel or longer) I'm leaning towards the P22 and the Sig Mosquitoe, but though I would ask to see what others think is a good pistol.


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## Fishbone Jones (24 Feb 2007)

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-M-93.shtm

Copy of the Colt Woodsman. Accurate, well made and cheap ($150.00). Good service and 1 year guarantee. Delivered right to your door by Canada Post. No need for a transport permit to pick it up. Win, win, win.


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## SoF (24 Feb 2007)

You gotta love the prices at Marstar, especially their Norinco series. I can't speak for the quality but from the reviews I've read on Canadian Gun Nutz forum the quality of Norinco firearms depends on the actual firearm. I got my pal in the summer and considered buying a 22 rifle but with my ct to the reg force buying a gun will have to sit on the shelf for a while.


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## rz350 (24 Feb 2007)

Thanks! that gun looks like a great deal and a great gun for a first one. I think I'll probably go with it.


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## BernDawg (24 Feb 2007)

I've used these in the past and they are very reliable and fun to shoot.  As for Cdn pricing I haven't a clue but it is an option for you.
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Pistol&subtype=Rimfire%20Autoloading&famlst=55
Cheers


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## KevinB (24 Feb 2007)

I'm usually not a fan of Norinco (both quality and the idea of funding a communist gov't) -- but I have seen friends with the Colt Woodsman copy - and it is a great deal.


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## medaid (24 Feb 2007)

get the Walther P22. GOod solid reliable pistol that I want  fairly inexpensive too


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## COBRA-6 (24 Feb 2007)

I have a Norc 870 shotgun clone with a 14" barrel. The price is right and the quality is very good. No problems with it at all. Marstar is great to deal with.


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## KevinB (25 Feb 2007)

Be warry of the Walther P22 -- I found the grip is way to small except for those with baby hands -- and that includes an attempt to build it up with hockey tape.


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## rz350 (25 Feb 2007)

Thats too bad, it looks like such a nice gun. I think I'm stick to the Norc for now, and cut my pistol teeth, before maybe moving up to some kind of 9mm.


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## 3rd Herd (25 Feb 2007)

Your other option is keeping your eyes open in some of the smaller town papers and some of the shooting range bulletin boards. Allot of people as with many other ventures start small and progress up. Several good deals on "starter" pistols are around to be found with a little effort spent on research, there is also a growing contingent getting out of the recreational shooting and are liquidating( was looking at an original mint broom handle last week.) Next find a range or shooting club and follow the old used car maximum "try before you buy". I started the daughter off with nine mil and lower grained ammo rather than going the .22 route. Saved me from constantly up grading as she grew and simplified ammo purchase. As with others here though I do like the Woodsman, though somewhat leary of off shore knock offs.


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## Colin Parkinson (25 Feb 2007)

recceguy said:
			
		

> http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-M-93.shtm
> 
> Copy of the Colt Woodsman. Accurate, well made and cheap ($150.00). Good service and 1 year guarantee. Delivered right to your door by Canada Post. No need for a transport permit to pick it up. Win, win, win.



I have put around 6,000 rds through mine with little problems, some of the pistols are cranky, the mag lips are prone to bending if improperly used, each round should drop in, don't force it. The next step up are the Rugers which are very nice pistols, going for at least $375 for the basic one. Try Canadiangunnutz board for private sales.


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## Old RCEME (26 Feb 2007)

I have owned both the Colt Woodsman (not copy) and the Ruger. The Woodsman sights are on the slide and the barrel which is inherently  inacurate, were as the Ruger sights are on a solid plane ,much better.Feeding problems are much less with the Ruger . Remember one thing , the Colt was designed in the late 30s and the Ruger in the early 50s. Duker


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## mudgunner49 (26 Feb 2007)

Old RCEME said:
			
		

> I have owned both the Colt Woodsman (not copy) and the Ruger. *The Woodsman sights are on the slide and the barrel which is inherently  inacurate*, were as the Ruger sights are on a solid plane ,much better.Feeding problems are much less with the Ruger . Remember one thing , *the Colt was designed in the late 30s * and the Ruger in the early 50s. Duker



I beg to differ - I have a 6"Colt Match Target Woodsman and it will shoot as well as, and often times better than, any of my 3 Ruger Target pistols (all 6 7/8" tapered).  So long as the slide returns to battery consistently the pistol will shoot better than you can.

The QC on the Norinco Woodsman copy (M-93) is spotty at best.  I have had 2 now.  The first was returned because I couldn't get it to feed anything (literally) for more than 4-5 rds in a row.  It would not feed an entire magazine once out of about 300 rds.  Frustration finally won out and I returned it.  The one I recently received as a replacement has been much better.  It took about 300 rds for it to settle in, but initially only jammed about once out of ever 3 or 4 mags.  It's been reliable for the past 250 or so.

Incidentally, the Woodsman was designed prior to WW1 - I have a 6" barreled specimen marked "Colt's .22 Automatic Pistol" manufactured in 1913.  Still reliable and accurate, but only fed standard velocity ammo...


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## Colin Parkinson (26 Feb 2007)

Norcino quality is getting better all of the time. My new Commander is a very nice pistol indeed, having seen some early imports you can see the rise in QC and finish.


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## Old RCEME (26 Feb 2007)

Key words(So long as the slide returns to battery consistently)You have a Match Target Woodsman,and 2 Norinco Knock offs ????????????????. Duker


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## mudgunner49 (26 Feb 2007)

Colin P said:
			
		

> *Norcino quality is getting better all of the time. * My new Commander is a very nice pistol indeed, having seen some early imports you can see the rise in QC and finish.



ColinP - I concur wholeheartedly.  The second one that I got was MUCH nicer than the first.

Duker - I have 1 x 6" Match Target Woodsman (3rd Model), 1 x 6" Target Woodsman (First Model), 1 x 4.5" Sport Model Woodsman (2nd Model) and 1 x 6" (Pre-Woodsman) Colt's .22 Automatic Pistol... oh yeah, and only 1 Norinco M93 (I sent the 1st one back)  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have a sickness that consists of an irrestistable urge to give old pistols a good, caring and supportive home... 


blake


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## Fishbone Jones (26 Feb 2007)

Most Norincos can shoot better than most of their owners. Anyone contemplating serious competition will know what to buy and purchase accordingly. For someone just starting out, the Norinco is fine. It's price pays off in all that extra ammo you can buy and practice with. In the end it works out to what you can afford and are happy with. My Norinco shoots better than the last three Rugers I had in my hands. I see no need to change. I'm not a 'brand whore'. If the tool does the job, I'll buy it at Princess Auto, I don't need a national brand bought at a fancy tool shop to get the job done.


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## I_Drive_Planes (26 Feb 2007)

Talk to Gunnar at Armco Guns, www.armco-guns.com he sells slicked up Norinco M-93s for $189.  He does excellent work and its well worth having him tune up your pistol a bit.

Planes


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## mudgunner49 (26 Feb 2007)

I_Drive_Planes said:
			
		

> Talk to Gunnar at Armco Guns, www.armco-guns.com he sells *slicked up Norinco M-93s* for $189.  He does excellent work and its well worth having him tune up your pistol a bit.
> 
> Planes



Any idea what it is exactly that he does??


bg


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## nowhere_man (27 Feb 2007)

Nothing wrong with a good Browning Buckmark or a Ruger. I don't think I'd ever buy a Norinco cheaper quality and directly supporting communists.


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## Harris (27 Feb 2007)

I've got a S&W 622 and It's a great starter pistol.  I paid $330 for it used.  So far has fired any ammo I've fed it.


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## Colin Parkinson (27 Feb 2007)

nowhere_man said:
			
		

> Nothing wrong with a good Browning Buckmark or a Ruger. I don't think I'd ever buy a Norinco cheaper quality and directly supporting communists.



I guess you also don't shop at wal mart, any loonie store or buy much electronics, plus you must prance around more or less naked. Chinese imports are everywhere, they also make pianos for the big namebrands.


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## ronnychoi (27 Feb 2007)

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Pistol&subtype=Rimfire%20Autoloading&famlst=55


Ruger makes a fine product. Norincos are well priced. Don't feel bad about putting money into commies pockets, everything you buy is from Red.


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## rz350 (27 Feb 2007)

Colin P said:
			
		

> I guess you also don't shop at wal mart, any loonie store or buy much electronics, plus you must prance around more or less naked. Chinese imports are everywhere, they also make pianos for the big namebrands.



And car parts for US brand cars, British cars (i.e. Rolls Royce has a factory in China), German cars (VW) countless electronic companies, as in the guts (IC's capacitors, ect) are made in China.

Oh, and maybe they are not my favourite country (far from it) but they do lend some stablity to the region, instead of having it turn into a buinch of pesudo feudal warring states like we see in area's which lack a Major power...I'd rather have a Major Commie, then a bunch of wars like Africa or the Middle East goes though.


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## nowhere_man (2 Mar 2007)

Colin P said:
			
		

> I guess you also don't shop at wal mart, any loonie store or buy much electronics, plus you must prance around more or less naked. Chinese imports are everywhere, they also make pianos for the big namebrands.



As a matter of fact I don't like shopping at Wal Mart, And i don't go to the dollar store that often. And as for clothes if they haven't completely fallen apart then their still good to go.  OK well maybe I do support the Commies economically a little but I don't think I would buy a gun from them.

Besides I'm a Remington kind of guy  ;D


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## Colin Parkinson (2 Mar 2007)

Remingtion makes nice shotguns & hunting rifles, but a little short on the pistol side. I do like their JHP ammo in 9mm and .45acp though.


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## rz350 (2 Mar 2007)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Remingtion makes nice shotguns & hunting rifles, but a little short on the pistol side. I do like their JHP ammo in 9mm and .45acp though.



How do ya get that? HP pistol ammo is banned from being imported into Canada...


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## Colin Parkinson (2 Mar 2007)

Sigh.............no grasshopper it is not banned, just expensive! $14.99 a box for 9mm and $28.00 for .45acp (Reliable in Vancouver)


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## KevinB (2 Mar 2007)

rz350 said:
			
		

> How do ya get that? HP pistol ammo is banned from being imported into Canada...



 :

and the myth gets perpetuated.

Colin is quite correct -- for a while CBS was denying it import for non LE/MIL usage -- however this issues was solved and there are no legal prohibitions


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## Colin Parkinson (3 Mar 2007)

Only the CBS could say that JHP was reserved for the Military.    : 

They should stick with harassing Lesbian book stores, even then they can't get it right.  ;D


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## rz350 (4 Mar 2007)

Oh alright, thats good to know. I though it was a real law, not just CBS being dinks.


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## COBRA-6 (6 Mar 2007)

It was a Natural Resources Canada regulation, as they are the department that controls explosives and hence ammunition. It was changed a few years back.


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Mar 2007)

Speaking of .22cal pistols, there is an article in the last Combat Handgun mag about a guy who modified his Ruger pistol with a lightweight barrel with a threaded end fitted with a ACC suppressor and Crimson lasergrips. He called it “project Snuffy!” It sounded pretty cool, wish we could have suppressors up here, be great for plinking and my wife would enjoy it!


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## mudgunner49 (6 Mar 2007)

COBRA-6 said:
			
		

> It was a Natural Resources Canada regulation, as they are the department that controls explosives and hence ammunition. It was changed a few years back.



...more specifically Energy & Mines, Explosives Regulatory Division - the same folks who inform me that I can't keep more than *75 kg * of explosives  for my own use (assuming that they are properly stored... ), which I find more than reasonable.  Do you have any idea how much ammo I would need to have to be in possession of 75 kg???  That's not ammo weight, it's the weight of propellant and primers...  Great googley-moogley!!!



blake


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Mar 2007)

Well let me see 4.5 gr of titegroup for my .45acp + 2 gr for the primer (guessing)= 6.5 grs per bullet thats 1076 .45acp rounds per pound if I remember 7,000 gr per pound x 2.2 to get 1 kg = 2369 rds x 75 = 177,692 rounds of .45acp  ;D

Guess I better start loading again this weekend, I only have 500 or so left of .45acp


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## Iron Oxide (6 Mar 2007)

"...more specifically Energy & Mines, Explosives Regulatory Division..."

http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/mms/explosif/over/over_e.htm

Generally a good group of people, at least the ones at the Bells Corners Complex.


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## KevinB (6 Mar 2007)

The issue was more with the interpretation made by Canada Customs.

I recall being able to buy 9mm JHP in the early 90's (prior to the ruling) since I had a personal MP-5 -- and the interpretation made "carbine" or rifle owners able to buy JHP -- but not pistol owners (other than LE/MI)


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## rz350 (6 Mar 2007)

lucky old guys and their being around before the prohib laws came out (@ you I-6 and your Mp5) I got born too late to ever hope of having anything that cool.


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## Urban (7 Mar 2007)

rz350 said:
			
		

> lucky old guys and their being around before the prohib laws came out (@ you I-6 and your Mp5) I got born too late to ever hope of having anything that cool.



This isn't as written in stone as the government wants you to think. My father was lucky enough to be grandfathered in when these laws arrived and naturally I'm quite interested in the future of these guns. Though you cannot be sold a prohibited gun without a license, I've heard of a precedent in inheriting a prohibited gun and a prohibited license along with it. I don't have any more information on this, but its something to look into.


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## mudgunner49 (7 Mar 2007)

Urban said:
			
		

> This isn't as written in stone as the government wants you to think. My father was lucky enough to be grandfathered in when these laws arrived and naturally I'm quite interested in the future of these guns. Though you cannot be sold a prohibited gun without a license, I've heard of a precedent in inheriting a prohibited gun and a prohibited license along with it. I don't have any more information on this, but its something to look into.



Oh, it's written in stone alright (OK, maybe semi-dry cement)!! You can, in fact inherit a prohib firearm, and you inherit (obviously) the registration certificate along with it, _*however you do not get grandfathered into the category for the purpose of acquiring more of the same class *  _ - it is for that acquisition by inheritance only.

As an example, your father (or whoever) passes away and leaves you a very nice Smith Model 27  with a 3.5" barrel (you lucky dog...).  You can take possession of this firearm since it was inherited, however you cannot now go out to a gunshop (or to another individual) and buy a Glock 19 with a 4.02" barrel.

I know - bummer!!!  Life sucks, get a helmet... 


blake


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## KevinB (7 Mar 2007)

Worse as it stands only PRE 46 handguns can be inherited.
  No FA 12(2), No CA 12(3), No 12(4), 12(5), and negatory for a majority of 12(6)

Grandfathering is designed to bleed guns out of our society - with a nice politically correct name so people believe it is not so. 

Life really does suck.


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## mudgunner49 (7 Mar 2007)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> 1/   ...Grandfathering is designed to bleed guns out of our society - with a nice politically correct name so people believe it is not so.
> 
> 2/   Life really does suck....



1/   Yes it is;  and 

2/   Yes it does...


blake


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## rz350 (8 Mar 2007)

I wrote Mr harper a paper (not email) letter about this today. Probably wont do anything, but its worth a try.


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## Colin Parkinson (8 Mar 2007)

One letter by itself doesn't, but many do. good for you, there are some ongoing 12(6) court cases we hope will turn the tide slightly.


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## glock17 (14 Mar 2007)

The Yardape has a Norinco, it works fine and he hits well with it.....lot's of in-expensive fun for the whole family ;D


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