# Sailors representing the Navy........



## CallOfDuty (1 Dec 2005)

Hey there guys, I know that I probably have no right to say anything at all, but as a Navy hopefull( very soon!), I want to express a concern of mine.   
      I can't help but notice that alot of the sailors I've been seeing around town, have not been maintaining a decent appearence at all.   I was at the mall the other day with my wife and we were discussing the military and in particular the Navy, and I was saying how fitness is part of being in the military and it is expected that you stay in good pysical shape.   Then two seconds later we turn the corner and there is   a giant of a man there talking to someone.   Then I realized that he was a sailor.   Wife says " Is that guy in the Navy?"     I crap you not, he was pushing at least 350LBS.   
        A couple of months ago I was at the local armouries returning some kit and one of the sup-techs was a sailor.   He was walking around with his shirt completely untucked and his giant bloated stomach protruding out.   He looked pregnant.
   Finally just this morning, I was getting gas and there was a sailor in front of me.   He was coated from head to toe in animal hair.   His beret was a tangled mess.   Uggghhh!!!
     I had to come here and type my frustration.
        Does anyone else notice these things?    I just think we need to be a little more careful how we present ourselves to the public.
   Cheers all, and have a great day
Steve


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## winchable (1 Dec 2005)

I've never noticed anyone in the navy to be any worse than anyone in the army or airforce,
There are bags of shit in every arm of the forces.


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## CallOfDuty (1 Dec 2005)

By no means am I generalizing the majority of our sailors ( or airmen or soldiers), but it just seems to be a trend I've noticed lately......I hope not to offend anyone.


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## Cloud Cover (1 Dec 2005)

CallOfDuty said:
			
		

> Finally just this morning, I was getting gas and there was a sailor in front of me.   He was coated from head to toe in animal hair.   His beret was a tangled mess.   Uggghhh!!!



We have a winner! Finally a source for the term "hairy bag".

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## SoF (2 Dec 2005)

I must say that I also agree that overweight individuals exists in the army and airforce just as much as in the navy. I think it would be nice if we got free gym memberships.


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## aesop081 (2 Dec 2005)

SoF said:
			
		

> I must say that I also agree that overweight individuals exists in the army and airforce just as much as in the navy. *I think it would be nice if we got free gym memberships*.



WTF are you talking about ?

Do the words "base gym " ring a bell ?

 :


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## SoF (5 Dec 2005)

Does the word "reserves" ring a bell. I don't even think we have a proper gym at our reserve unit.


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## meni0n (5 Dec 2005)

Every ASU got at least a small gym. Just show your ID card and voila.


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## axeman (5 Dec 2005)

and if you dont have a reserve unit near the ASU? what then i realize pt is a personal thing but some units put less emphasis on it then others .. if your gonna be slacl your gonna be slack , if your gonna drive the body you are gonna do that .


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## NCRCrow (5 Dec 2005)

nothing beats 15 min out and 15 mins back run, no matter where you are

What can say about the Navy, 5 awesome meals a day from the besy cooks in the military...plus 10 oclock soup. 

really, I wouldn't generalize with just the Navy.


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## SoF (5 Dec 2005)

Yep navy chow is pretty dam good ;D


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## NCRCrow (5 Dec 2005)

its not good its great!

sometimes too good...Tunic getting tight!


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## TAS278 (5 Dec 2005)

There are lots of crap bags no matter where you are in the world. But the navy happens to house some of the crappiest  j/K but you are right HFXCrow, we have got some great food


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## NavyShooter (6 Dec 2005)

As one of those who's started to see the "Midships Bulge" over the years, I can say that one of the hardest things to do is to keep in a routine.

Standing the mids right now, and damn if it isn't hard to take some of my off-watch time to go and work-out.  I'd much rather be sleeping, I get little enough of that as is.

Day workers tend to have it a bit easier that way, but it's still not so much fun to try and convince yourself to go hop on the elliptical for 25 minutes or so when the ship's rolling around in the atlantic.

Then when we get alongside, there's so much OTHER damn stuff to do that's always more important!  (Or so it seems.)

I used to ride my bike 35 km three times a week, plus a 5Km ride into work every morning.  I now live 30+ km from work, and have to drive in.  

The food is damn good onboard, and yes, it's me that puts it in my mouth, so the extra 20 or so pounds I'm hauling around with me are entirely my fault.  But 8 months of sailing this year doesn't make it easy to try and get on any sort of work-out routine and stay there.

NavyShooter


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## navymich (6 Dec 2005)

And the people that fail their Express test almost have it better (for working out), because then they get mandatory gym time.  Now to only fit it in with the sailing schedule...


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## painswessex (20 Jan 2006)

I am with a Field unit right now and i tell you after i get back to the ships i will stay with my PT that i have now. I wish all Sailors could come out and so a year at a field unit. Also if one person took it upon therselves to do a PT class every morning at 7 then there would be a lot less of the buldge going around I have to say that if i was in a mall and saw those people that you described i would say something i take alot of pride in my Navy uniform (although i am in the "relish" suit right now) It relly bothers me to hear that some bad apples are giving the rest of us hard working Navy folk a bad rap.


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## CallOfDuty (20 Jan 2006)

Good post painswessex..... 
Cheers


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## Springroll (20 Jan 2006)

Hubby and I have discussed this very issue before. 

When we moved from west to east we noticed a HUGE difference in the way the Navy represents themselves. Out east they are more "slack" when it comes to dress and deportment. Out west they are super anal....there is no happt medium.

as for the over weight sailors...the food is good on board and you can't expect them to be too trim when you have a vending machine full of beer on board too!!


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## Ex-Dragoon (20 Jan 2006)

I believe you were looking for less pusser...slack indicates being less professional.


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> I believe you were looking for less pusser...slack indicates being less professional.



I had to ask hubby about that one..lol
and yes, I would say that the west is "pusser" and the east is "not pusser"...
the meaning for slack that I was referring to was lacking in concern for their general appearance when in uniform.
My example would be my husband being asked to not iron his uniform since he was making the others look bad...that was just after we got here.


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Jan 2006)

Thats pretty unbelieveable, I have been here since '94 and I can't think of any unit that would ever ask someone to lower their personal  standards on dress and deportment. It's just is not done! Some may not enforce those standards as high as they should or like that in other units but dress and deportment are critcal in the image we put out to the public and to each other.


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Thats pretty unbelieveable, I have been here since '94 and I can't think of any unit that would ever ask someone to lower their personal  standards on dress and deportment. It's just is not done! Some may not enforce those standards as high as they should or like that in other units but dress and deportment are critcal in the image we put out to the public and to each other.



I agree that it is unbelievable, but it did happen. 
Hubby got here Aug'04 and after about 2 weeks of being on ship his MS came up to him and said "You need to stop being so pusser. You are making the rest of us look bad"....and that is an exact quote. It is done alot more than many think, but it just is not spoken about. Hubby's NCD's used to be ironed and creased and now it is pulled out of the dryer so that he can look like everyone else...sad, but true.


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Jan 2006)

Then the MS is not doing his job nor his his/her superiors. Your hubby should have taken it upon himself to start raising the standard of his section, obviously someone has to.


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## Armymedic (21 Jan 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> "You need to stop being so pusser. You are making the rest of us look bad"....and that is an exact quote. It is done alot more than many think, but it just is not spoken about. Hubby's NCD's used to be ironed and creased and now it is pulled out of the dryer so that he can look like everyone else...sad, but true.



Looking up definitions in the word picture book, Army Leadership, and CF Ethics....

Nope, no where does it say that you should set low standards and make no attempt to achieve them.

These are signs of ongoing long term poor morale. There is a problem. Perhaps someone there in Halifax needs to address that.


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Then the MS is not doing his job nor his his/her superiors. Your hubby should have taken it upon himself to start raising the standard of his section, obviously someone has to.



We agree 100% with you Ex-Dragoon. He has very poor quality superiors right now, and many are stuck in their ways of having a "relaxed" enviroment, and that becomes very apparent when you see the quality of work some of these guys get away with. Hubby is already trying to raise the standards when it comes to work ethic with the OS and AB's, but him trying to raise the standard of dress will be difficult at this time. Maybe in a few months he will begin to tackle that, but it is not 100% feasible at this point in time for him.


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Jan 2006)

There is no reason why he cannot go in with a properly turned out uniform. If his subordinates see your hubby is setting a good example with proper attitude, discipline and dress then they will start to emulate him. If he doesn't then he is not helping the situation at all.


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> There is no reason why he cannot go in with a properly turned out uniform. If his subordinates see your hubby is setting a good example with proper attitude, discipline and dress then they will start to emulate him. If he doesn't then he is not helping the situation at all.



Well he has other very important priorities on his mind right now, so it is not do-able right now.

edited to add: And just for the record, his uniform is NEVER wrinkled in any way, but his creases are not as sharp as they were when he first got here


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## Torlyn (21 Jan 2006)

I've noticed a few of these things out on the west coast as well...  I know I'm bran-spankin'-new to the whole thing, but after basic you have it firmly ingrained as to the proper way to care for your appearance.  Have us subbies noticed more senior officers with unpolished/poorly polished shoes, or improperly cared for garments (creases, etc)?  Yes.  Do we say anything to them?  No.  What we do, is make sure that no matter what our own kit meets our own high standards.  I want to make sure that whenever I pass a Chief and he's saluting (and I'm trying not to fall over/say the wrong thing/look like a fool), that somewhere in the back of his mind he's thinking "Damn, an officer with shiny shoes, impressive".   Perhaps your hubby could do the same.  

Speaking of which, I need to go work on my oxfords....

T


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Torlyn said:
			
		

> Perhaps your hubby could do the same.
> T



Things are very different between the east and west. We know this because we have lived on both coasts.
His boots are always done, hair is clean cut and his face is always clean shaven. The only thing lacking on his uniform are the sharp creases he used to have when we were out west. He was specifically asked not to, and since he was still new to the ship, he listened. When he is wearing his uniform he doesn't look like he just pulled it out of a bag and he is not covered in hair. He is presentable, he just is not to the standards that he grew accustomed to out west because he was told not to be. 

When things settle down for him and such, I am sure that he would consider changing things a bit when it comes to the uniforms of those below him. Right now, his concerns are his health and making sure he shows his OS's and AB's what good work ethic is...most of them are slack little buggers that need a mommy behind them to give them a swift kick in the arse. He feels that making sure they are doing their jobs well is more important at this time and is a better way to spend his time then scolding them for uniforms...that will come once they know how to do their jobs and do them well.

Plus, it would be easier for him to tackle if he had the support of those who were MS and above. 
The whole "lead by example" expression kind of goes out the window with some of his higher ups.


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## Inch (21 Jan 2006)

Springroll, 

I'm not sure if I understand, how can he be too busy to crease his pants like he used to or keep his standard of dress at a high level? It takes all of 10 minutes to iron and polish boots, I see no reason whatsoever for not turning out looking like the professional soldiers, sailors, and airmen that we are. No one here is saying he should be jacking others up for not having their dress to a high standard, what I've read in the past few posts the opinion is that he should lead by example. Just do it and others will follow. 

There's such a thing as an unlawful order, lower your standard of dress isn't a lawful order in my opinion. What are they going to do? Charge him? I'll gladly be the assisting officer for that summary trial. 

I show up on parade with my oxfords looking like mirrors, a rarity in the Air Force, guys say I make them look bad, I say "no, you make yourself look bad".


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Inch said:
			
		

> No one here is saying he should be jacking others up for not having their dress to a high standard, what I've read in the past few posts the opinion is that he should lead by example. Just do it and others will follow.



We agree, but the last thing he needs to deal with right now is to be on the bad books with his bosses. With the bosses he has right now, it doesn't take much.


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## Inch (21 Jan 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> We agree, but the last thing he needs to deal with right now is to be on the bad books with his bosses. With the bosses he has right now, it doesn't take much.



Nonsense, that has got to be the worst reason I've ever heard for having a low standard of Dress and Deportment. That's what a chain of command is for, take it up to the CO if need be, that's total BS to be in the "bad books" for good Dress and Deportment.


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Inch said:
			
		

> Nonsense, that has got to be the worst reason I've ever heard for having a low standard of Dress and Deportment. That's what a chain of command is for, take it up to the CO if need be, that's total BS to be in the "bad books" for good Dress and Deportment.



His standard is not considered low, just not as high as it was out west.
It is also not a BS reason. If you had something more serious to worry about, this would be the last type of battle you would want to be in.
It also depends on your chain of command...my husband happens to have a bunch of losers for bosses...the type that will do anything to make you look like crap or will take credit for something they did not do just to try and look better. 

As it stands right now, hubby's uniform is not in sloppy condition. Boots are polished or blackened, depending on which ones he is wearing, clothes are clean and wrinkle free and is pet hair free. That is not a low standard.


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## Inch (21 Jan 2006)

What ship is he on?


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## Ex-Dragoon (21 Jan 2006)

> I show up on parade with my oxfords looking like mirrors, a rarity in the Air Force, guys say I make them look bad, I say "no, you make yourself look bad".



Hear hear well said



> That is not a low standard.



Must be for him if he went from immaculate to just above slack.

No COX'N would ever tolerate this type of behaviour.


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Inch said:
			
		

> What ship is he on?



I would love to tell you that, but we are not interested in having any more BS to deal with than what we currently are. 
After his surgery, I will give you the ship info if you still want it.


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## Springroll (21 Jan 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Must be for him if he went from immaculate to just above slack.



You are right, it is a low standard to him, but is still higher than most of the people he works with.


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## Inch (21 Jan 2006)

I'll echo what Ex-Dragoon said, talk to the Cox'n, rest assured he will not tolerate that kind of behaviour.


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## spud (22 Jan 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> You are right, it is a low standard to him, but is still higher than most of the people he works with.



As usual I will play the jerk, but I have to say that it sounds like your mate may also have a slight case of "inflated self importance". Your posts constantly talk about how slack everybody is under him and all his supervisors are useless, while he is Super Sailor.  Everyone I knew who had this opinion of their entire department was in fact the *problem*, not the solution. Unless you are at work with him and witnessing the slackness and ineptitude of an entire department perhaps you should stop slagging them. 

I'm sure if an entire department was like that, the work wouldn't be getting done, or getting done right, and department heads would be standing tall. I've been out for 10 years, but unless things have changed that much, no CO, XO, Cox'n, or even the Buffer would stand for it. 

2nd hand accounts are that. 2nd hand.   I'm not trying to be rude, but I had to say it. 

potato


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## Springroll (22 Jan 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> As usual I will play the jerk, but I have to say that it sounds like your mate may also have a slight case of "inflated self importance". Your posts constantly talk about how slack everybody is under him and all his supervisors are useless, while he is Super Sailor.  Everyone I knew who had this opinion of their entire department was in fact the *problem*, not the solution. Unless you are at work with him and witnessing the slackness and ineptitude of an entire department perhaps you should stop slagging them.
> 
> I'm sure if an entire department was like that, the work wouldn't be getting done, or getting done right, and department heads would be standing tall. I've been out for 10 years, but unless things have changed that much, no CO, XO, Cox'n, or even the Buffer would stand for it.
> 
> ...



He is not super sailor by any means, but he does his job to the best of his ability... and his PDR's reflect that.
I also happen to know a few of his bosses previously and know how they are. 
What I have written in here was from my husband's mouth, not mine.  He gets along with those around him, but considering he was used to the west coast method of work, moving out here was a shock for him and he is still adjusting to it almost 18 months later. Maybe the difference is that he is not a partier, and those that he works around are...I also never stated that the entire department was like that.

I agree that the coxn or buffer would not stand for slack behaviour from a section. 
I have no control over the way you perceive what I am saying. 
and yes, things have changed over the last 10 years.

And with that, lets bring it back onto topic.....


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## Jarnhamar (22 Jan 2006)

> PDR's reflect that.



I woudn't put too much emphasis on this line of thinking.  I've seen some seriously ****** up individuals get shining PDRs because their bosses simply didn't want to deal with them and/or they were told from higher to rewrite them.  Don't forget bad troops means the spotlight comes on their chain of command too.

I really have to question the wisdom behind comming on public means like this and basically saying everyone above and below whoever are bags of crap.  If my wife did it we'd have some serious issues.

It may be comming right from his mouth and your simply echoing what you're husband is saying but if he feels that strongly about the issue it might be better comming from his mouth directly.  That way when it gets back to his bosses what was said (and it will, this is a small army and even smaller internet community) he can defend what *he* said and not what his wife was saying. It's a matter of professionalisim. Dirty laundry should be aired in his bosses office and not here.

Great post spud, i've seen the same thing.


****Mod edit for language*****


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## spud (22 Jan 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> I also never stated that the entire department was like that.



When his superiors are slack and his supervisors are slack, that doesn't leave much left now does it?



			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> I have no control over the way you perceive what I am saying. and yes, things have changed over the last 10 years.




What hasn't changed over ten years is that a few military members come home and whine to their spouse/partner/housemate/roommate/mommy whatever; they in turn repeat it without giving any thought to whether it is accurate or not. Your story will be like his. One sided.




			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> And with that, lets bring it back onto topic.....





			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> "He has very poor quality superiors right now", "When things settle down for him and such, I am sure that he would consider changing things a bit when it comes to the uniforms of those below him", "Hubby is already trying to raise the standards when it comes to work ethic with the OS and AB's", "most of them are slack little buggers that need a mommy behind them to give them a swift kick in the arse.", "Plus, it would be easier for him to tackle if he had the support of those who were MS and above. The whole "lead by example" expression kind of goes out the window with some of his higher ups."
> "but the last thing he needs to deal with right now is to be on the bad books with his bosses. With the bosses he has right now, it doesn't take much.", "It also depends on your chain of command...my husband happens to have a bunch of losers for bosses...the type that will do anything to make you look like crap or will take credit for something they did not do just to try and look better.", "You are right, it is a low standard to him, but is still higher than most of the people he works with.".



Yes that is a ringing endorsement for sure of his shipmates for sure. I'm not getting into a flame war with someone who obviously has no fuel,, but you should think about your point before you post. 


potato

p.s. funny, when I was in we tried to stick up for our wingers, not run them down. Guess things have changed.


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## Springroll (22 Jan 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> p.s. funny, when I was in we tried to stick up for our wingers, not run them down. Guess things have changed.



This is EXACTLY what happens nowadays...sad but true.


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## Neill McKay (22 Jan 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> he was used to the west coast method of work, moving out here was a shock for him and he is still adjusting to it almost 18 months later.



I would suggest that, if everything you say is so, it may have more to do with the individual ship than the coast.


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## Springroll (22 Jan 2006)

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> I would suggest that, if everything you say is so, it may have more to do with the individual ship than the coast.



That could be it too. I had never really considered it being just the ship since I had always heard(yes I know) the east was more "relaxed".

Hubby's ship out west was awesome! They were like a real close family, everyone watched out for each other and helped each other. The CO and buffer were incredible!!! They made it their business to keep informed about their crew members and their families.

Out here, it is almost like they don't give 2 diddly's. Hubby just got a very rare brain diagnosis and none of his co-workers have shown any concern or empathy over this diagnosis, which the only fix for is brain surgery.

I think you are right...it may just be the ship...


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## Ex-Dragoon (22 Jan 2006)

> Out here, it is almost like they don't give 2 diddly's. Hubby just got a very rare brain diagnosis and none of his co-workers have shown any concern or empathy over this diagnosis, which the only fix for is brain surgery.
> 
> I think you are right...it may just be the ship...



First off...let me say I wish your husband the best during these trying times.

You stated above in a previous post that he gets along with his co-workers but if as you said and they aren't showing any concern/empathy I have to wonder if he has also offended his peers and subordinates with his attiude? As much as I hate to say it, sometimes we make our own beds and with our deeds done we have to lay with the consequences of our actions. Nonetheless, I hope he makes a speedy recovery.


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## Springroll (23 Jan 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> First off...let me say I wish your husband the best during these trying times.
> 
> You stated above in a previous post that he gets along with his co-workers but if as you said and they aren't showing any concern/empathy I have to wonder if he has also offended his peers and subordinates with his attiude? As much as I hate to say it, sometimes we make our own beds and with our deeds done we have to lay with the consequences of our actions. Nonetheless, I hope he makes a speedy recovery.



Thank you for your well wishes...it does mean alot.
After I posted, hubby and I chatted about it. 
He figures the reason why he isn't getting empathy and such from his co-workers is probably because they have no clue what he is diagnosed with. The diagnosis he got only affects .001% of the world population. In layman's terms, ACM is a condition where part of the brain, the cerebellar tonsils, descend out of the skull and crowd the spinal cord slowly cutting off the curculation of cerebrospinal fluid. If he was diagnosed with brain cancer or something more common, they would probably understand, but since they don't know what to make of it(just like we don't) that is probably why. 

Again, thank you for the well wishes, he will appreciate it.


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## Rhibwolf (11 Mar 2006)

I hope I don’t rain on anyone's east/west parade squares, but having recently moved from East to West, I can honestly say that I have not noticed much of a difference in the quality of Sailor, Sr NCO, or Officer.  Junior ranks go just as far out their way to avoid saluting senior pers out here as they did in Halifax.  The returned salutes from those senior personnel are just as sloppy as they were out east too.  Uniforms are just as sloppy, attitudes just as slovenly, and everyone still expects to slide on Thursday at noon if Friday is a Sunday routine.
That said, both coasts have an equal amount of really pusser people. I have had the honour to work with excellent tradespers, phenomenal leaders and have been under great COs on both coasts.  
What I have noticed is that regardless of where you are, the same problems and the same blessings can be found in equal doses.  Some ships are better than others, and some are just death to your spirit...... but that happens on both coasts.  I think that bad leadership will account for most of the woes, and I applaud the Subbie up higher who headed off to shine his oxfords.  While shoes alone mean nothing, if his (or anyone's) desire to look  professional stems from an overall solid approach to being a full, well-rounded professional, that is commendable.  If there are leadership problems, then the above mentioned issues can fester, and if leadership (at any level) does nothing about it, it will not change.  For Springroll, tell your hubby to keep his professional attitude up to his normal spec.  His mates might not like it but perhaps a few of them might begin to pull their own standards up, and I don’t mean just uniforms, I’m talking about the whole thing...  regardless of his rank, he too is a leader.
Is there a difference between east and west? none that I can see, and I don’t think it should be used as an excuse for anything other than the obvious difference of weather, or the formation of units ashore.    
Yours, Aye


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## Phrontis (11 Mar 2006)

I believe this is first and foremost a leadership issue.  It is certainly important to lead by example and maintain one's own kit and fitness levels at a high standard, but it doesn't end there.  If we don't demand the same of our subordinates, we are granting implicit permission to look like a bag of rags.  I had a CO once who said "If you see something wrong and don't do anything about it, you have just set a new low standard".  Words to live by.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (11 Mar 2006)

I agree whole heartedly that we should have more pride in our appearance and deportment. Having said that I'm in my fifties now so the bulge is there and pretty natural...I can still do the Express and up until last summer was doing the Army one  (Gagetown 01-05) minus the trench dig as it hadn't yet come in.

Shiny shoes...yeah ok...never been a big advocate of that as a sign of military virtue....I think we should go the American route and get corfams.
I work in the pink palace (S90) in DEU everyday....my uniform is neat and clean, shirt pressed and my hair is cut properly all the time. I return salutes and give salutes proudly and properly and then I sit at a desk all day doing paperwork. 
The guys working on ships have to get a little dirtier (lots in many cases) and do some pretty hard physical work sometimes so they are not always going to look like they just stepped off a parade square.
there is no excuse for gross obesity, slovenly attitudes or lackadaisical performance.

I saw a guy at the MIR last month who was a total sack of crap......canex jacket with both epaulets flying in the breeze (he'd taken his rank slip ons off to wear it civie style no doubt and forgot to put them back on)  filthy pants with paint on them and a beret that looked like it got accidentally flushed down the heads.....he was getting his release medical so I figured I'd let it go....good riddance says I. Having said that...as an officer I should have jacked his sorry ass through the roof. My bad.


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## Phrontis (11 Mar 2006)

The day the CF gets corfams is the day I'll...well, I guess it'll be the day I wear corfams, but I won't like it. 

Honestly, it doesn't take that long to press a shirt and shines a pair of shoes.  If we switched to corfams I think it would be saying we just don't care and even the little bit of work polishing represents is too much for us.


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## Rhibwolf (11 Mar 2006)

In Hoc, I tend to agree with you, that shiny shoes do not a sailor make.  But, you do admit that you do keep to the basic tenets of military custom, i.e. proper adherence to the basics of professionalism and uniformity.  (i admit too, that after 21 years, sometimes my rig could use a bit more TLC, but it still looks good - just not Gung Ho, young Artilleryman good!)
I concur with your statement on obesity! There is no excuse, and listening to fat leaders say, "hey, I'm a (insert title) and i need to be mentally sharp to move paper, fire missiles, type memos, etc." doesn't cut it at all.  These fat excuse making "leaders" set a poor example for their sailors, and when young bloggins expresses an interest in getting fit, his bosses don't cut him the time.  A previous comment was made about it almost being better to be on remedial, so that you can get your gym time on crown time.  Sadly, it tends to be that way.  
I spent a lot of time in the army, and PT was the ONLY priority for the first 90 minutes of the work day.  I hated it, as the unit I was with tended to lack imagination when it came to PT (same 5 K every day, every day, every day).  After I switched to the Navy, I must admit that I missed it, and I made effort and time to make sure that I could get PT done if I wanted to.  Furthermore, I make it abundantly clear that anyone in my dept has full support to do PT during working hours.  
I cant wait to see the official doctrine on PT/Expres Tests that Hillier was talking about! Perhaps we will be able to actually do something as leaders that wont meet with resistance every step of the way.   :threat:


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## Ex-Dragoon (11 Mar 2006)

For the Navy, I look at it this way. If a sailor makes an effort to shine his shoes/boots press his uniform and get a haircut without needing to be told pays attention to detail more so then those that don't. Sailors that pay attention to detail are more apt to keep themselves and their comrades alive then those that do not.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (11 Mar 2006)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> For the Navy, I look at it this way. If a sailor makes an effort to shine his shoes/boots press his uniform and get a haircut without needing to be told pays attention to detail more so then those that don't. Sailors that pay attention to detail are more apt to keep themselves and their comrades alive then those that do not.



I agree with what you said about PT too. I cut myself an hour each day...or try to but sometimes the incessant meetings and phone calls short change me. I got myself a bowflex in the new year though and me and my wife are having fun learning how to do that...it's something we can do together so it helps with the home front and the job requirement. And hey maybe she'll get to look like that 50 year old on the commercial and I'll get to look like Arnie...ha ha

As for corfams I think they are great....in the early eighties we wore them on the bridge cause the old RCN mentality of "officers don't wear boots they wear shoes" was in force (we also had to wear DEU shirt and peaked cap...argh) .My feet used to get super cold on those steel decks in the CF oxfords...but the corfams don't' breathe so they kept my feet toasty. And they were always shiny! lol

I always have thought that all that time spent shining shoes was a pain in the butt...and OK if you are army but sailors have better things to do. he he. Like go to PX and buy corfams! lol  ;D


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