# Medical Officer recruiting info session highlights (2 Dec, UBC)



## vincent.escanlar (7 Dec 2006)

Hi,

I'm a long time lurker on the forums - thanks everyone for your questions and answers, it's been eye-opening - and I think I might finally have something useful to contribute (didn't find this posted already anywhere else anyway).  Some highlights from the info session at the UBC Family Medicine Residents' Conference (2 Dec) on careers for physicians in the CF:

- for MOTP, you can now sign up as early as 1st year med school (see the CANFORGEN below).  You'd get the same signing bonus as if you join in 2nd year ($40K), and the return of service is still the max 4 years as before

- if you're in a specialist residency in one of the specialities needed in the CF (Internal, Psych, Anaesthesia, Gen Surg, Radiology and Ortho), you can also sign up (2nd CANFORGEN below) - and you get paid like a practicing FP after R2 (that is huge, like >$100K/yr vs the usual ~$60K/yr for R3s and up)

- if you've already done residency and are going in as a Direct-Entry family physician, you get your choice of posting (MOTP mbrs do not)

- there is a new medical-specific officer training course in place of the Basic Officer Training Course and Initial Assessment Phase

- also emphasised were the opportunities for training in diving and aerospace medicine, things you can't easily find in civilian practice

- and that for a new doctor starting out, not carrying any overhead expenses and having your clinic space and support staff all provided is a bonus

- as is being paid on salary and being able to concentrate on patient care, instead of generating a billable volume of visits, as would be the case in fee-for-service (something like 20 patients/day in a CF clinic vs perhaps double that in a civilian clinic)

- and that relatively small volume of patients/day means, especially for newly-minted grads, you have plenty of time to work things out and discuss with senior staff if you need

- parental benefits - paid time off (not full salary, but much closer to it than the usual civilian benefit)  (if you take parental leave during your return-of-service, it's added on once you return to work)

- 20% of your working time is in a civilian setting (eg an Emerg ward) to keep your skills and exposure up.  This might be set up as 1d/wk or a 4d/mo period

- guaranteed vacation time - don't need to juggle around a coverage schedule with anyone

- plus a week of conference leave a year

- and no after-hours call, no pager to wear - when you go home from the clinic, you really can go home

- and when you leave, you may be eligible for a pension, I think the time-in required was 25y (for something like >$100K/yr once you're eligible; according to MD Management you'd need a nest-egg of at least $2M to generate that if you were a civilian physician)

It was an excellent talk, and nice to see Recruiting starting to get more active.  Back when I signed up we only had a regular Recruiting staffer come by to talk, who definitely knew all the plan details and could talk about general "military life", but didn't have any medical experience.  Having a serving MO do the session was great.  One of the opening lines was something like "Of course I don't expect all of you to sign up today.  Only a handful, maybe 4 or 5 of you would be a good fit for our service."  I think putting it down as a challenge like that really got some good attention.

Hope this might be of some use.  If not, or already posted elsewhere, apologies.  I was going to add a link to the Recruiting site for physicians, but it's down right now... look forward for a update, I guess.

Best,

- vpe

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CANFORGEN 158/06 CMP 074 311317Z OCT 06
MEDICAL OFFICER TRAINING PLAN (MOTP)
UNCLASSIFIED
REFS: A. CFAO 9-63
B. CBI 205.525
C. DAOD 5049-1
       CURRENT POLICY AT REF A PRECLUDES FIRST YEAR MEDICAL STUDENTS FROM ENROLLING IN THE CF UNDER THE MEDICAL OFFICER TRAINING PLAN (MOTP), EXCEPT AT THE TWO CANADIAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS THAT HAVE THREE-YEAR CURRICULA
       DUE TO THE CURRENT SIGNIFICANT SHORTFALL OF CF MEDICAL OFFICERS, THE ELIGIBILITY FOR ENROLMENT INTO THE CF UNDER THE MOTP IS EXTENDED TO FIRST YEAR MEDICAL STUDENTS AT ALL CANADIAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS, INCLUDING THOSE WITH 4-YEAR CURRICULA
       EFFECTIVE 1 SEP 2006, THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS WILL APPLY TO THE ENROLMENT OF FIRST YEAR MEDICAL STUDENTS AT MEDICAL SCHOOLS WITH 4-YEAR CURRICULA:
                       ELIGIBILITY: ENROLMENT CAN NOW BE OFFERED TO INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE EITHER IN FIRST YEAR OR WHO HAVE A LETTER OF UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE INTO A CANADIAN MEDICAL SCHOOL AND WHO OTHERWISE MEET NORMAL CF ENROLMENT STANDARDS
                       EFFECTIVE ENROLMENT DATE: ENROLMENT WILL OCCUR WHEN THE APPLICANT IS IN RECEIPT OF AN UNCONDITIONAL LETTER OF ACCEPTANCE TO A CANADIAN MEDICAL SCHOOL. IDEALLY, THE INDIVIDUAL SHOULD PROCEED ON BASIC TRAINING DURING THE SUMMER PRIOR TO COMMENCING THEIR FIRST YEAR OF MEDICAL SCHOOL STUDIES, ALTHOUGH THIS WILL NOT ALWAYS BE POSSIBLE
                       RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCE: THE RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCE WILL BE IAW EXISTING POLICY AT REF B. FOR EXAMPLE, FIRST YEAR MEDICAL STUDENTS AT INSTITUTIONS WITH 4-YEAR PROGRAMS WILL RECEIVE THE SAME RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCE GIVEN TO SECOND YEAR STUDENTS AS BOTH GROUPS FALL INTO THE RECRUITMENT ALLOWANCE ENTITLEMENT CATEGORY OF BEING SUBSIDIZED FOR A PERIOD EXCEEDING 48 MONTHS OF TRAINING
       OBLIGATORY SERVICE (OS). IAW REF C, MOTP STUDENTS ENROLLED IN THEIR FIST YEAR OF MEDICAL SCHOOL WILL BE OBLIGATED TO SERVE A PERIOD OF 48 MONTHS OF OS COMMENCING THE DAY AFTER SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THEIR RESIDENCY TRAINING
       CHANGES TO APPLICABLE ORDERS, DIRECTIVES AND POLICIES WILL BE AMENDED IN DUE TIME
       CFRG AND CFHS ARE DIRECTED TO TAKE ACTION TO MAXIMIZE AWARENESS OF THIS NEW POLICY AT ALL CANADIAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS, AND THROUGHOUT THE PRE-MED UNIVERSITY COMMUNITY

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CANFORGEN 157/06 CMP 073 311253Z OCT 06
ENROLMENT OF MEDICAL OFFICER SPECIALIST RESIDENTS
UNCLASSIFIED
REFS: A. CFAO 9-63 <http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/009-63_e.asp>
B. CBI 204.216 <http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=204.216&sidecat=21&Chapter=204>
C. CBI 205.525 <http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=205.525&sidecat=22&Chapter=205>
D. DAOD 5002-2 <http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/5002/2_e.asp>
       THE CF HAS A REQUIREMENT FOR MEDICAL (PHYSICIAN) SPECIALISTS IN THE FOLLOWING SUB-OCCUPATIONS: INTERNAL MEDICINE, PSYCHIATRY, RADIOLOGY, ANAESTHESIOLOGY, GENERAL SURGERY AND ORTHOPAEDIC SURGERY
       HISTORICALLY, THE CF HAS NORMALLY ONLY ENROLLED SPECIALISTS ONCE THEY HAVE COMPLETED ALL OF THEIR RESIDENCY TRAINING UNDER THE DEO PROGRAM. DUE TO THE CURRENT SIGNIFICANT SHORTFALL OF SPECIALISTS, THE CF WILL BEGIN TO ENROL MEDICAL OFFICER SPECIALIST RESIDENTS. THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED TO PROVIDE CLARIFICATION FOR THE ENROLMENT PROCESS FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS. THIS PROCESS IS SIMPLY AN ADAPTATION OF THE EXISTING MOTP AND DEO PROGRAMS TO MEET THIS NEW SITUATION
       THE POLICY CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE IS EFFECTIVE 1 SEP 06.
       ELIGIBILITY: INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE EITHER UNDERGOING SPECIALTY RESIDENCY TRAINING OR WHO HAVE A LETTER OF UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE INTO A CANADIAN SPECIALIST RESIDENCY PROGRAM, IN ONE OF THE CF CORE SUB-OCCUPATIONS LISTED IN PARA ONE ABOVE, ARE ELIGIBLE TO APPLY FOR ENROLMENT. IN ADDITION TO MEETING NORMAL CF ENROLMENT STANDARDS, THE SENIOR SPECIALIST ADVISOR FOR THE APPLICABLE MEDICAL SUB-OCCUPATION WILL BE INVOLVED IN THE SELECTION PROCESS
       ENROLMENT DATE: ENROLMENT CAN OCCUR AT ANY TIME DURING THE RESIDENCY PERIOD, AS LONG AS THE INDIVIDUAL PROVIDES A LETTER OF PROOF OF GOOD STANDING BY THEIR PROGRAM DIRECTOR AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION
       R1-R2 SPECIALIST RESIDENTS:
                       ENROLMENT PLAN: RESIDENTS IN THEIR FIRST OR SECOND YEAR OF RESIDENCY TRAINING (R1-R2) WILL BE ENROLLED UNDER MOTP IAW REF A
                       RANK AND PROMOTION: RESIDENTS IN THEIR FIRST OR SECOND YEAR OF RESIDENCY (R1-R2) WILL BE ENROLLED IN THE RANK OF LT. ONCE THEY BEGIN THEIR THIRD YEAR OF RESIDENCY (R-3), THEY WILL BE PROMOTED FROM LT TO CAPT AND PAID AS A GENERAL DUTY MEDICAL OFFICER. THE RATIONALE FOR THIS IS THAT A THIRD-YEAR RESIDENT HAS COMPLETED 4 YEARS OF MEDICAL SCHOOL AND 2 YEARS OF RESIDENCY TRAINING, MAKING THEM EQUIVALENT TO A LICENSED FAMILY PHYSICIAN (A GDMO WHO HAS DONE A TOTAL OF 6 YEARS OF MEDICAL TRAINING). ONCE THEY SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETE THEIR RESIDENCY TRAINING, THEY WILL BE PROMOTED TO MAJOR (SPECIALIST)
                       SALARY AND RECRUITING ALLOWANCE: DURING RESIDENCE TRAINING, THEY WILL RECEIVE THE SAME PAY AND RECRUITING ALLOWANCE AS A FAMILY PHYSICIAN RESIDENT IAW REFS B AND C
       R3-R5 SPECIALIST RESIDENTS:
                       ENROLMENT PLAN: RESIDENTS IN THEIR THIRD TO FIFTH YEARS OF RESIDENCY TRAINING (R3-R5) WILL BE ENROLLED UNDER THE DEO PROGRAM IAW REF D
                       RANK AND PROMOTION: RESIDENTS IN THEIR THIRD TO FIFTH YEARS OF RESIDENCY (R3-R5) WILL BE ENROLLED IN THE RANK OF CAPT. ONCE THEY SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETE THEIR RESIDENCY TRAINING, THEY WILL BE PROMOTED TO MAJ (SPECIALIST)
                       SALARY: RESIDENTS ENROLLED AS A CAPT WILL RECEIVE THE SAME PAY AS FAMILY PHYSICIANS IAW REF B. AS DEO FAMILY PHYSICIANS, THEY WILL BEGIN AT PAY INCREMENT ONE FOR CAPT MEDICAL OFFICERS. ONCE THEY ARE PROMOTED TO MAJOR (SPECIALIST) THEY WILL BE PAID AS A MAJOR SPECIALIST IAW REF B
       OBLIGATORY SERVICE. SPECIALIST RESIDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN ENROLLED UNDER THIS POLICY AND SUBSIDIZED BY THE CF FOR ALL OR ANY PART OF THEIR RESIDENCY TRAINING WILL INCUR 60 MONTHS OF OBLIGATORY SERVICE WHICH WILL COMMENCE THE DAY AFTER SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THEIR RESIDENCY TRAINING
       FELLOWSHIP TRAINING. THE ABOVE POLICY WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON THE CURRENT APPROACH TO APPROVING AND MANAGING SPECIALIST FELLOWSHIP TRAINING WHICH NORMALLY OCCURS AFTER COMPLETION OF RESIDENCY TRAINING AND IS OVERSEEN JOINTLY BY DGHS AND DGMC STAFF
       CHANGES TO APPLICABLE ORDERS, DIRECTIVES AND POLICIES WILL BE AMENDED IN DUE TIME
       CFRG AND CFHS ARE DIRECTED TO ENSURE MAXIMUM AWARENESS OF THIS NEW POLICY AT ALL CANADIAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS AND SPECIALIST RESIDENCY PROGRAM COMMUNITIES

(Edited for clarity)


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## HCA123 (7 Dec 2006)

Is the new MO basic training course official or is it just 'in the works'? I know it's been talked about for the last year or so (since I did my BOTC with 5 docs last fall). One of our docs at the unit had a 'condensed' 8 or so weeks in St-Jean this summer at CFLRS (was bounced around IAP and BOTP with 1 on 1 instruction - probably not an ideal situation for overworked CFLRS instructors). Did they give you a time line (in weeks) for the 'new' course? Is it the same one as the Padre's in Borden (believe that has been done in the past). 

Reason for my asking is that my wife is in 1st yr residency (MOTPer since 2nd yr med school) and will be doing basic training in some form after June 2008. Not to mention I work with docs at the unit who always like to hear the latest and greatest in new guidelines. Also, who was the individual that conducted the info session? If you have a name/rank, it would be appreciated.

Thanks for the info.


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## vincent.escanlar (24 Dec 2006)

Hi HCA123,

Sorry for the delayed reply.  Our speaker was LCol Randy Russell, an MO.  Re MO basic trg:  I was hoping to find some new documents, but the only ones out there still say 8wk IAP + 6wk BOTP, though we were told it would be a total of 9wk only in place of that.  No breakdown on what would be covered; don't know if it's anything like the Padre's course.

Where's your wife doing residency?  How's she liking it?  We've got two here in Victoria, doing Family Medicine half-days back at the base hospital among our other rotations, and then moving on to our rural rotations next year.


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## vincent.escanlar (20 Jan 2007)

The numbers for 2007 post-grad training for MOs might be of interest for anyone considering specialising after a general-duty MO stint:

Aerospace Medicine (Brooks AFB, San Antonio):  1 vacancy, 0 candidate accepted
Anaesthesia:  2, 1
Diving Medicine (also at Brooks AFB):  1, 1
Emergency Medicine (+1 EM year): 1, 0
General Surgery:  2, 0
Internal Medicine:  2, 1
Occupational/Preventive Medicine MPH:  1, 1
Orthopaedic Surgery:  2, 2
Psychiatry:  2, 2
Radiology:  1, 1
Sports Medicine:  1, 0


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## Gunner98 (20 Jan 2007)

vincent.escanlar said:
			
		

> Hi HCA123,
> Sorry for the delayed reply.  Our speaker was LCol Randy Russell, an MO.  Re MO basic trg:  I was hoping to find some new documents, but the only ones out there still say 8wk IAP + 6wk BOTP, though we were told it would be a total of 9wk only in place of that.  No breakdown on what would be covered; don't know if it's anything like the Padre's course.



It will be the same or very similar to the Padre BOTP.  For trained Specialists recruited to CF, they are receiving a one on one, 8-week OJT with Sr NCO instructor at the home base/facility.


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## vincent.escanlar (20 Jan 2007)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> It will be the same or very similar to the Padre BOTP.  For trained Specialists recruited to CF, they are receiving a one on one, 8-week OJT with Sr NCO instructor at the home base/facility.



Thanks for the info Gunner98.

The physician recruiting site was recently updated, there's a lot of new information and details compared to the old one:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/physician/engraph/home_e.asp

_Edited to correct link_


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## vincent.escanlar (19 Apr 2007)

HCA123 said:
			
		

> Is the new MO basic training course official or is it just 'in the works'? I know it's been talked about for the last year or so (since I did my BOTC with 5 docs last fall). One of our docs at the unit had a 'condensed' 8 or so weeks in St-Jean this summer at CFLRS (was bounced around IAP and BOTP with 1 on 1 instruction - probably not an ideal situation for overworked CFLRS instructors). Did they give you a time line (in weeks) for the 'new' course? Is it the same one as the Padre's in Borden (believe that has been done in the past).



Delayed reply - just received this (albeit 3rd-hand) today:



> Subject: Medical Officer Update 9
> 1. Health Services Basic Officer Training Course
> 23 April - 2 June 2007
> 
> ...


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## HCA123 (19 Apr 2007)

If you got it from your fellow MOTPer that I know at UBC, then you actually got it 6th hand  The above message was taken out of a regular email that goes around to CF MOs from the Occupational Structure Management Officer in Ottawa. We have 3 MOs from 1 Fd Amb scheduled to take the course starting next week (distance learning portion and then off to Borden) and it should be interesting to hear about the results. Not sure if this is a pilot project or not, but it's interesting to note that within the message it states "However, the creation of this course does not preclude MOs from attending the "traditional" program in St. Jean." I guess this means that if an MO really wants to do the IAP/BOTP in St-Jean, they have that option? Or maybe it just means that if the operational tempo slows down they could revert back to having all MOs go to St-Jean. It definitely still leaves the door open though.


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## Meredith (25 May 2008)

vincent.escanlar said:
			
		

> The numbers for 2007 post-grad training for MOs might be of interest for anyone considering specialising after a general-duty MO stint:
> 
> Aerospace Medicine (Brooks AFB, San Antonio):  1 vacancy, 0 candidate accepted
> Anaesthesia:  2, 1
> ...



Does anyone know if all these specialties are usually offered in the CF (after doing the initial return of service)? In the literature I've read so far, I hadn't seen Sports Medicine or Diving Medicine or Emergency Medicine. Or, since this post has been around for a couple of years, have things changed?
Thank you!


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## david_wright (26 May 2008)

It is interesting to see that there were 2 vacancies for anaesthesia and only one successful applicant. I have tried to transfer to CF from the ADF and I was told that the CF already has a full complement of anaesthetists and therefore I'm not particularly desired. (I have 3 years to go before I gain my anaesthesia fellowship).
I didn't see anything about ICU there. Does the CF have specialist intensivists?


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## vincent.escanlar (25 Aug 2008)

david_wright said:
			
		

> It is interesting to see that there were 2 vacancies for anaesthesia and only one successful applicant. I have tried to transfer to CF from the ADF and I was told that the CF already has a full complement of anaesthetists and therefore I'm not particularly desired. (I have 3 years to go before I gain my anaesthesia fellowship).
> I didn't see anything about ICU there. Does the CF have specialist intensivists?



Yes, there's at least one I know; though there's been many civilian intensivists deploying on contract too.

Thought the 2009 post-grad training availability might be of interest for anyone thinking about joining MOTP out of med school (as I was), but wondering about specialisation options after the Family Practice return-of-service:

Emergency Medicine (+1 EM year after Family): 2
General Surgery: 2
Internal Medicine: 1
Orthopaedic Surgery: 1
Psychiatry: 1
Public Health (Master's degree programme): 2

And other training programmes:
Advanced aerospace medicine (2yr programme): 2
Hyperbaric physiology and diving medicine (2yr programme): 2
Sports medicine (1yr programme): 1


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