# CADPAT



## K_O_2004 (21 May 2004)

I was wondering if cadets are permitted to wear CADPAT on bush excersises. Can they?


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## D-n-A (21 May 2004)

Find out through your unit.

As far as I know though, it is illegal for Civilians(yes, Cadets are civilians) to own real issue CADPAT, so your have to get the Frontenac CADPAT.


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## corporal-cam (21 May 2004)

> Originally posted by D-n-A:
> [qb] Find out through your unit.
> 
> As far as I know though, it is illegal for Civilians(yes, Cadets are civilians) to own real issue CADPAT, so your have to get the Frontenac CADPAT. [/qb]


Ok first if cadets don‘t know they‘re civilians there‘s something wrong with our training    Second it‘s legal to own CADPATS if you get it from a surplus dealer with permission to sell it (not many do) And I don‘t think the CATOs say anything about CADPAT since they‘ve only been giving licenses for a month or two to sell CADPAT so I guess it‘s all up to the sqn. standing orders. I do know it does annoy some officers since I wore just the pants when going flying once and I heard an officer mumble something to a f/sgt about it, but atleast I impressed the f/sgt, yay for browy points lol. (no I‘m not one of those suck ups everyone hates)


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## ZipperHead (21 May 2004)

This topic was beaten to death on the CanadianPeacekeeper (Wheeler‘s) forum a few month‘s back, but here‘s my take: there is NO requirement for cadets to wear CADPAT. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. 

The good old green did the Reg Force for many years, and it will suit your purposes just fine for many more to come. The CADPAT camouflage has a purpose: to make the soldier 40% less visible in certain environments in ***COMBAT***. It isn‘t Gucci-flage that is worn to look cool, or to make your 16 year old flight sergeant worship you. 

That‘s the bottom line. If you want to waste perfectly good money to do some good, donate it to Mike here at Army.ca. It will do far more good in years to come (as you will undoubtedly learn plenty about the army from know-it-all‘s like me) than some WannaBe (R) CADPAT knock-off pajama bottoms that would make you the laughing stock of your Reg Force Battalion, Battery, Squadron or Regiment, etc if you wore them outside of your Mama‘s house.

Knock yourself out wearing them on your cadet "exercises", maneuvres, camping weekends, etc.  I‘m sure they (the other cadets) will think "yr kewl". I was in cadets (2943 PPCLI Campbell River, BC) for 5 years so I have a right to mock you "kid-ettes".

I‘m sure Mark Wheeler and whomever owns Frontenac must be happier than pigs in poop that all the cadets and reservists are all over the CADPAT thing (I do in fact own a CADPAT FMP cover, but mainly for the water resistancy that the better material provides, and yes I get mocked by my peers and superiors for owning Gucci-flage kit).

Have a good one,

Al


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## condor888000 (21 May 2004)

There is nothing in the CATO‘s against it or for it. If you want to waste your money go ahead, but it could be better spent.


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## Bzzliteyr (22 May 2004)

Hey AL.. nice FMP on ya!! I for one, have taken the time to go at my green issue underwear with a black felt tip marker so that they too will resemble the CADPAT and impress all the guys and girls I work with.  Not really.

I however don‘t like the fact that "corporal-cam" mixed civilian and military attire, even if it did get him "browneye points".  You shouldn‘t be mixing combats and civvies at any time.  Just looks even sillier than a cadet with CADPAT!!

Just my two cents...
Bzz


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (22 May 2004)

AHH shucks the cadets just want to be growed up and look like troops. Just remember when you wear CF attire in public you represent everone who wears the uniform. Thats a pretty big resonsiblity. I personnally don‘t have aproblem with cadets in CADPAT as long as they conduct themselves in a very professional way on civi street. People see the uniform and look at you as an example of what the CF is.Don‘t let us down. If your not of age and you smoke do it VERY discretly.BE PROFESSIONAL.  Cheers


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## ZipperHead (22 May 2004)

Bzz,

I may have to "out" you with your real name if you pick on me like that (read my "request/suggestion/demand" thread) or at least knock your rating average down (how you could manage a 4 rating is beyond me anyway.......).

I‘m not sure if your "browneye" comment was intentional or not, but I read it the way it looks right there (right in the browneye....)

BTW, stop smelling the fumes from the marker that you‘re using on your illegally modded underwear, that might help (though I know it makes the time in J7 more tolerable...)

Al


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## Old Cent Hand (22 May 2004)

Cadets with CADPAT? Why should Cadets wear CADPAT, when Regular Force troops, just out of Basic, in Wainwright ,wear the old Combats? This fact identifies them as " Students". As for mixing Civilian, and Military Attire , come on now , get a " Life". When , I am off duty , I don‘t wear military underwear , nor my " dogtags".Some people mix their attire to look " cool".My GF , is a waitress ,in a pub , near the Garrison , in Edmonton.She gets hit on , all the time by the " Baby Rambo‘s" as she calls then, they display their "dogtags", and such, and she is sick , to death of hearing , " I am going to Afghanistan, I might not come back, will you come home with me?"


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## 48Highlander (22 May 2004)

I‘m sorry, but I have to admit that I DO wear military underwear in civvie life.  It‘s a horrible thing, I know.  I just can‘t help it though, they‘re so gosh darn comfy!


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## Old Cent Hand (22 May 2004)

You got a point there ,Highlander!
CHEERS!


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## Bzzliteyr (22 May 2004)

Allan, for you and you only, I will put my "real" name in my signature block.. is that kewl?? 

As for my underwear, I am eagerly awaiting my request through "clothe the soldier" to trial my new CADPAT thong underwear.. which I will be testing up and down the hallways of J7 with only an Army.ca T-shirt as cover!

Bzz


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## Gunner (22 May 2004)

> She gets hit on , all the time by the " Baby Rambo‘s" as she calls then, they display their "dogtags", and such, and she is sick , to death of hearing , " I am going to Afghanistan, I might not come back, will you come home with me?"


Old Cent Hand - I‘m an older Rambo and going to Afghanistan, might not come home.  Where‘s she work?


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## Doug VT (23 May 2004)

I for one am tired of all the CADPAT hype.  Canada has gone off the deep end...  Everything must be so "purely Canadian" that it‘s sickening.  There is nothing special about CADPAT, it‘s all a gimmick, just a better technique to blend colours to look *ironically* less man made.  If there is any such thing as an IR treatment, the effect is negligible, and a colossal waste of money.  CADPAT is digital camouflage, and that‘s all.  It‘s no better or worse then any of the copycat patterns out there.  Only we were crybabies who had to patent it so that we could be special...


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## CI Dumaran (23 May 2004)

It‘s all up to your CO...

you cannot wear issued CADPAT, but depending on your CO you can wear frontenac and other reproduction CADPAT as civilian wear. You , of course, cannot wear with the fake CADPAT head dress with insignia and rank.

It‘s really up to your officers. I know a few army units that allow cadets to wear the fake stuff but as first.

Me... being a former cadet in the us and here in canada, I don‘t see a need for cadets to wear CADPAT! Other than the LCF...


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## corporal-cam (23 May 2004)

> Originally posted by BOOMER004:
> [qb] AHH shucks the cadets just want to be growed up and look like troops. Just remember when you wear CF attire in public you represent everone who wears the uniform. Thats a pretty big resonsiblity. I personnally don‘t have aproblem with cadets in CADPAT as long as they conduct themselves in a very professional way on civi street. People see the uniform and look at you as an example of what the CF is.Don‘t let us down. If your not of age and you smoke do it VERY discretly.BE PROFESSIONAL.  Cheers [/qb]


Don‘t worry, I agree with Ned Fladers in the "jokers are smokers" theory so no need to worry about that. And I like most (but sadly, not all cadets) act very professional both in and out of uniform.



> Originally posted by Old Cent‘ Hand:
> [qb] Cadets with CADPAT? Why should Cadets wear CADPAT, when Regular Force troops, just out of Basic, in Wainwright ,wear the old Combats? This fact identifies them as " Students". As for mixing Civilian, and Military Attire , come on now , get a " Life". When , I am off duty , I don‘t wear military underwear , nor my " dogtags".Some people mix their attire to look " cool".My GF , is a waitress ,in a pub , near the Garrison , in Edmonton.She gets hit on , all the time by the " Baby Rambo‘s" as she calls then, they display their "dogtags", and such, and she is sick , to death of hearing , " I am going to Afghanistan, I might not come back, will you come home with me?" [/qb]


For the first part about me haveing cadpat when reg forces guys dont, think of it as me doing them a favour since the CF charges the surplus guys alot to buy it then they take that money and go buy another 2 or 3 sets of CADPAT, so I‘m actually helping by spending my money on this. As for the guys hitting on your wife, they‘ve watched Pearl Harbour (crapy movie by the way) a few too many times.


edited cause I got confused and thought I was someone else, don‘t ask....

edited again because I forgot to add this:

The whole browneye points thing was sarcasm, apparently no one can read the sarcasm in my voice when I‘m typing. Not to mention the fact I ment browny points or however it‘s spelt (you know thie little chocolate things.)


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## Bzzliteyr (23 May 2004)

Corporal-cam, you still didn‘t address the fact of why you were wearing both civvies and combats??  I am sure it is well known that that is a no-no.  Please refrain from doing it again.  

As for the "Brownie points"... my comment was meant to be spelt "browneye".. as a sort of silly play on words.  That‘s all.. I am funny like that.

Bzz


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## fleeingjam (23 May 2004)

Cadets cannot be representing the CF by wearing CADPAT.

So listen.
You may wear the uniform and feel "cool" but the minute you use that uniform with a selfish concious you ruin the beauty of it.So go ahead Cadets wear CADPAT all you want just dont forget what you are representing and prepare to face the consiquences afterwards.


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## CI Dumaran (23 May 2004)

Hey, whether you like or not... cadet ARE representing the CF...

Most goons off the street can‘t tell the difference other than the immature look of some younger cadets.

Once again, as I stated about. Cadets are not allowed to wear issued CADPAT combats... BUT... are, if permitted by the CO of the unit to wear the frontenac and other fake CADPAT as they would wear civi combats.

Some units allow other nation‘s combats, mostly US, and some allow fake CADPAT... Most, officer staff will not allow the wearing of CADPAT outright.

Frankly.. I think, that cadets in no capacity should wear anything that resembles CADPAT. CADPAT is for the use of those who are entitled it.

Cheers.

BTW... Usman_Syed FIX YOUR AVATAR!


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## CI Dumaran (23 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Usman_Syed:
> [qb] Cadets cannot be representing the CF by wearing CADPAT.
> 
> So listen.
> You may wear the uniform and feel "cool" but the minute you use that uniform with a selfish concious you ruin the beauty of it.So go ahead Cadets wear CADPAT all you want just dont forget what you are representing and prepare to face the consiquences afterwards. [/qb]


Now you are threatening the kid?

Look... were you a cadet? I just wanted to know.
Ease up on the kid.

there is this adolecsent pubecsent ideal as a cadet/boy/kid... I WANT TO LOOK COOL.. Now with that said. As people in the know, most of use simply want to make sure that the proper lines are drawn: Cadets aren‘t and shouldn‘t be able to wear a uniform not entitled to them... same as normal people... BUT! these kids are superised by CIC officer and that puts them in a situation where by they must make proper distinguishing guidlines.

Frankly, cadets can use the argument and say, they are not a uniform they are civies worn on exe. BUT they are too close looking to the real deal and therefore must not be allowed.

Cheers


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## CI Dumaran (23 May 2004)

> Originally posted by condor888000:
> [qb] There is nothing in the CATO‘s against it or for it. If you want to waste your money go ahead, but it could be better spent. [/qb]


I know officers that were directly involved in the creation and the ammendments to the CATOs...

and...
you are correct in that nothing is stated about CADPAT wear... BUT! as perscribed in the field training, whereby it states that cadets are only permitted to wear the old OD combats with or without head dress and rank. Other than civies of course.

CADPATs are very distinct as a uniform of the CF therefore would constitute a no-no.

But you still are true in that the CATOs say nothing... for now.


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## CI Dumaran (23 May 2004)

Oh... whether your CO approved the wear of the fakes stuff... if you try to wear anything that looks CADPAT on a CFB you will be stopped and ordered to remove it immediately.

Your officers will obviously be aware of that!

Hey K_O_2004 are you in the GGFG?


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## Old Cent Hand (23 May 2004)

The arguement about Cadets, wearing CADPAT , is redundant.Anyone can go into a Surplus Store and buy it. In the West Edmonton Mall, there is a Suplus Store , that sold CADPAT, and the  Load Bearing Vest, long , before , I got issued it.If I have to spend my pay , to buy " Kit", then there is something wrong with the " System".But then again, talk , to a " Bin Rat", who is wearing a brand new uniform, and says the rags , you are attempting to turn in , are not worn out enough.


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## Spr.Earl (23 May 2004)

Kit does not make a Soldier!!!


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## Old Cent Hand (23 May 2004)

CHIMO!


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## CI Dumaran (23 May 2004)

I‘m giving the argument from someone that knows cadet regulations. I am a unit officer.

I know you can go buy.. that doesn‘t mean they can wear it.


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## corporal-cam (23 May 2004)

> Originally posted by CI Phlipster:
> [qb]
> 
> Some units allow other nation‘s combats, mostly US, and some allow fake CADPAT... Most, officer staff will not allow the wearing of CADPAT outright.
> [/qb]


A bit off topic but I figured as long as I‘m here I‘d point out it‘s not the CO‘s decision of whether cadets wearother nation‘s combats, the CATOs say you can wear them but absolutly no rank or unit insinia is allowd.



> Originally posted by CI Phlipster:
> [qb]
> CADPATs are very distinct as a uniform of the CF therefore would constitute a no-no.
> 
> But you still are true in that the CATOs say nothing... for now. [/qb]


OD uniforms are also distinctly Canadian the second I see slanted pockets I see the CF



> Originally posted by Spr.Earl:
> [qb] Kit does not make a Soldier!!! [/qb]


Nobody ever said it did.


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## brihard (24 May 2004)

I‘ve got several perspectives to share on this particualr issue...

First, a backgrounder. I‘m a warrant officer in the PWOR cadet corps here in Kingston. I‘m serving out my final year here. (this is my third). I was inducted into the Reserves late in february (Yes, this IS allowed- CATO 10-13 in effect states you can be both at once) and just finished by basic training on weekends and march break. I‘m doing SQ and BIQ in the summer.

Now, speaking from my first experience, as a cadet, Combats are great for field use. I can‘t count the number of cadets I‘ve berated for wearing jeans on exercises, etc. Combats are made for the field. they‘re everywhere, and I encourage people to pick up a set of OD at a surplus store for field use, with boots to go with ‘em.

At my unit, on exercises, people wearing combats will generally still wear rank, though the Cadet dress rank- Gold rank on black; not OD green combat rank. I‘ve seena  few people jury-rig combat rank with a ‘cadets‘ tag oon the bottom. I have no problem with that either,a nd have not seen anyone that does. As long as you identify yourself as a cadet. We also wear our headdress on exercise, though often people will wear a bush cap of some kind instead of the beret. 

In terms of other Combat equipment, a few cadets have surplus pattern 82 webbing that they‘ve bought and use in the field. I‘ve found it useful- the amg pouches can be used for thigs like a cmamera, botle of hand sanitizer (great stuff for the field, Purell), small munchies, etc, and of course the canteen is a must.

As long as this stuff is legally acquired, I don‘t care if my cadets use it.

That having been said, I‘ve never had one show up in CADPAT. If one did, and it were frontenac crap, I‘d laugh at them and let ‘em wear it. Now, soemone more senior might make them change into something else, but if they wanna act ‘the kewl‘ for all their corporal buddies, that‘s good for them. They‘ll learn.

Switch to perspective two.

My stepmother is a captain in Logistics up in Ottawa. For several years her job was overseeing the issue of CADPAT to field units. She had to entertain endless BS requests from unit COs who wanted their entire unit to be outfitted because they had their own personal set. My stepmom had to tell a couple generals where to get off once or twice- politely, of course. My brother is in a cadet unit up there in Ottawa. They‘ve had a few isntances where cadets showed up in issued CADPAT. One has a parent in the military. Now, Stepmom brought borther to an ex, saw this, and flipped out compeltely. I never heard the end of the story, but apparently she intended to have him charged. Not sure if she ever got around to it.

We have soldiers all over the world doing their duty. At this point, they‘ve all been rpetty mcuh outfitted. It‘s at the point now where (as of about a month ago) fresh entries into the infantry reserves are getting issued CADPAT. I got sworn in back in Feb, and have been told I draw mine as of June 1st. So the reserves are getting it.

That having been said, since there ARE still sworn, serving personnel yet to receive theirs, Cadets should not be wearing, suing, or acquiring real CADPAT. Also, please don‘t get me started on CIC officers who have CADPAT- It intensely pisses me off that some of them have had it over a year. But that‘s another issue. Until suffiecient CADPAT is in the system that everyone in the plan to get some has it, and it‘s being sold off through crown surplus, cadets should NOT be wearing it. It is a COMBAT uniform, made for combat situations. It should gof irst to anyone who ahs even a remote chance of having to defend themselves. Then after that it should go to the CF desk jockeys, the Chairborne commandos who still somehow get to it earlier than most of the rest of us. Cadets who want to play cam and concealment should NOT be anywhere on the priority list. They can wait and get it at the surplus places just liek they ahd to wait for any other cool stuff they‘ve drooled at whenever some reservist should walk the floor of the armoury during some cadet activity.

Now my final perspective, me as a reservist.

I got sworn in back in feb. I was at clothing stores that same day, thinking ‘Aw, cool, I get all this neat stuff!‘ Anyway, the novelty wore off the first time I had to stuff it all in a hut. The last residual bit of awe at my posession of a gas mask choked to death when I ahd to take it off in the gas hut. Kit is kit. It‘s functional. 

Now, whether some fourteen year old cadet things it looks cool, and has rambo fantasies of him wearing Canadian ‘Mark 8-X ultimate kewlness Digi-Cam XL‘ on a cadet exercise is completely beside the point. The army issues (ideally) us kit that we need to use to do our job. No more, no less. Cadets don‘t need CADPAT to do what they do any better. ****, they parade in full dress uniform most of the time, except a few units that let cadets buy OD and wear it every other night or so. 

Compared to reserves stuff, cadet field exercises are a joke. Since cadets are NOT permited to learn combat tactics, there‘s no need for them to use combat clothing that reduce visibility. Now I realize this conflicts with what I said about the OD green, and webbing, etc, but that is useful simply fo the field CONDITIONS- They need the pockets and the carrying capacity to keep exercise stuff with them, and ****, few thigns are as comfy in the field as combats. There‘s enough of each flooding surplus that nobody loses if they want to buy it. 

I‘m sure I‘v eocvered just about every aspect of this- the POV of the cadets, thsoe actually authorized for cadpat, adn the poor dumb officers who have to sort the mess out. Now eventually, five to ten years from now when CADPAT is everywhere, it may be prevalent in the surplus palces, and it won‘t really be a novel thing in cadets anymore because suddenyl anyone can go to Surplus and buy some. But so long as it‘s still in short supply, and sworn troops are still waiting for it, cadets SHOULD NOT be wearing any of the real stuff. Every CADPAT iten on a cadet could be on a soldier.


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## Zoomie (24 May 2004)

Sigh....

CADPAT is quite the rave, or so I hear!  Really, who cares?  Every one who needs the clothing has already had it issued to them.  If Cadets are acquiring the new jammie gear, sobeit.
Just so everyone knows, there is superfluous amounts of CADPAT in the system.  As I type, the AIRFORCE is undergoing complete issuance of CADPAT, from the floppy brim hat to the winter parka (all in CADPAT).  This includes all the ground handlers and aircraft technicians.  If we were really concerned about this clothing, would we issue it to everyone?  I think not.
Let‘s all just accept the fact that the "new" clothing for the CF (ie CADPAT) is now just run of the mill.
I have three sets in my locker that I will probably never wear in my entire career.  A buddy of mine said it best when he asked how quickly he was going to be issued his CADPAT, he was going camping soon and thought it might be good in the woods.


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## CI Dumaran (24 May 2004)

Gentlemen!

The question was straight.

Can cadets wear cadpat on ex.

the answer: 
if the CADPAT is real: NO

If the CADPAT is fake: Possibly

BTW your CO can pretty much allow you to wear what ever you want.
And... some cadets in here are very informed others need to step back alittle.

Cheers.

I think this thread should get the good‘ol locking. 

This issue has been so beaten to a pulp there is no point anymore...

PS... if you are a cadet... GO TO CADET-WORLD.COM... you can get real information from the people who know cadets.

Cheers! (again)


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## CI Dumaran (24 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Brihard:
> [qb] I‘ve got several perspectives to share on this particualr issue...
> 
> First, a backgrounder. I‘m a warrant officer in the PWOR cadet corps here in Kingston. I‘m serving out my final year here. (this is my third). I was inducted into the Reserves late in february (Yes, this IS allowed- CATO 10-13 in effect states you can be both at once) and just finished by basic training on weekends and march break. I‘m doing SQ and BIQ in the summer.
> ...


Brian H is that you???

If it is... Hey!


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## Redeye (24 May 2004)

As this is getting ridiculous, locked.


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