# Are you an officer? Get in this thread



## dvh1 (13 Dec 2012)

I have a question for any officer currently in the military. Do you think the dollar amount you get paid is fair for the amount of work you do? This is a serious question, I have done lots of research on pay scales, duties and responsibilities. 

Obviously im expecting a lot of people to say they don't do it for the pay but I am looking for an honest answer. How is you financial lifestyle? Are you living check to check? Are you able to save money and still live a slightly above average lifestyle?

Did life change for you when you made the pay scale jump from LT to Captain?

Thanks in advance for answers!


----------



## dimsum (13 Dec 2012)

dvh1 said:
			
		

> I have a question for any officer currently in the military. Do you think the dollar amount you get paid is fair for the amount of work you do? This is a serious question, I have done lots of research on pay scales, duties and responsibilities.
> 
> Obviously im expecting a lot of people to say they don't do it for the pay but I am looking for an honest answer. How is you financial lifestyle? Are you living check to check? Are you able to save money and still live a slightly above average lifestyle?
> 
> ...



That question is pretty much impossible to answer on a broad brush.  Everyone lives differently; some save lots, some splurge on the latest gadget.  Therefore, some will end up saving lots while some will end up living pay-to-pay due to all the things they buy.  

You've done the research on pay scales, so you know how well (or poorly) we are paid compared to equivalent (if applicable) jobs in the civilian sector.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (13 Dec 2012)

dvh1 said:
			
		

> Are you living check to check?



Although I am not a Commissioned Officer, I am curious how hockey is connected to finances of a CF Officer.   8)


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (13 Dec 2012)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Although I am not a Commissioned Officer, I am curious how hockey is connected to finances of a CF Officer.   8)



Nice. ;D


----------



## Eye In The Sky (13 Dec 2012)

:bowing:


----------



## donaldk (13 Dec 2012)

To the OP: Yes and no to the question about if the pay is fair.  It really depends on ALOT of factors (your field of expertise, MOSID/civilian comparisons, experience, etc).

Looking at my self as a Mechanical Engineer (civi qualification) / MSENG 00345 (mil MOSID) at a pure pay perspective:
-> as an apprentice EIT (starting out): hell yes the pay is great
-> when I have my PEng license (come this June): pay lacks most certainly (if you exclude the benefits + pension possibilities)
-> overtime = there is no overtime pay in the military (ship is off the wall and your 24/7 working with the same pay), civilian side yes and huge (civilian side wins out here, I would make a killing if I worked as hard as I do in the service).  If you are already in the service then you know overtime is a fantasy at best.
->Pay increase from SLt/Lt to Capt/Lt(N): It wasn't significant due to my entry method (this happens to UTPNCMs/SCPs/CFRs; DEO, CEOTP and ROTP will get a huge increase).  If you are in the ranks taking the commission will bump your pay slightly.

Now lets introduce benefits, pension, job stability, and experiences into the equation and generally the military wins out.  I could go on, as many on this board will... I have seen fellow NCM/Officers get out over the pay, be successful civilian side, but not happy for some reason... and sure enough there they are in uniform walking in the gate line up into the dockyard to proceed aboard one of the greyhound of deaths getting ready to proceed to sea.  I have a silent good laugh when I see it.

So for me the above factors weigh in much more than the pay.  I definitely suggest you familiarize yourself with www.forces.ca and through this website, have a chat with a recruiter; or go to your closest recruiting center (CFRC).  At the end of the day, despite the proverbial crap that comes with being in the military, I know I like my job over the last 12 years as I am still smiling.

edit: clarity


----------



## SentryMAn (13 Dec 2012)

This price you "can" pay in the military isn't fair for the work you do, I mean what do you value a life at these days?

You can live a great life in the military, I mean where else as a DEO directly out of University can you make $40k+ per year and get more experience in leadership in your first 5 years then 15 years on civi side.

But like anything if you are looking for a big paying job, the military isn't it, you'll never make a million a year working for the Forces.  

Most people don't do it for the money, but do it to serve their country and help out those in need.


----------



## Zoomie (13 Dec 2012)

I get paid a ridiculous amount of money for the work I do.  I, however, don't get to choose where I live, move every 3-4 years and deal with an antiquated administration and discipline system that fails to work efficiently. So in the end, I get what I get


----------



## Loachman (13 Dec 2012)

Why do you want to know?

Otherwise, it's just another silly question that I'm not paid enough to answer.


----------



## daftandbarmy (13 Dec 2012)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> I get paid a ridiculous amount of money for the work I do.  I, however, don't get to choose where I live, move every 3-4 years and deal with an antiquated administration and discipline system that fails to work efficiently. So in the end, I get what I get



That should be engraved on some kind of column somewhere. Awesome.


----------



## MMSS (13 Dec 2012)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> So in the end, I get what I get





			
				daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> That should be engraved on some kind of column somewhere.



As a sobering thought, the slogan "Jedem das Seine" (German proverb meaning "to each his own" or "to each what he deserves") was over the entrance to the Buchenwald concentration camp. When the camp was then used from 1945-50 as an internment camp for Nazi prisoners, the slogan stayed.


----------



## shogun506 (14 Dec 2012)

Zoomie said:
			
		

> I get paid a ridiculous amount of money for the work I do.  I, however, don't get to choose where I live, move every 3-4 years and deal with an antiquated administration and discipline system that fails to work efficiently. So in the end, I get what I get



Do all pilots move every 3-4 years or is it an optional thing?


----------



## dapaterson (14 Dec 2012)

Reaper-1 said:
			
		

> Do all pilots move every 3-4 years or is it an optional thing?



Postings are optional.





You can accept the posting, or release.


----------



## SentryMAn (14 Dec 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Postings are optional.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At first I was all like....."#$%$ing pilots..."
And then I was all like...."oh, I see what you're saying now"

:^)


----------



## ModlrMike (14 Dec 2012)

Just so we're clear, the OP's question should not be confined just to officers. Neither should most of the answers in this thread.


----------



## Anakha (14 Mar 2013)

To answer the OP, yes I think I get paid very well for what I do. There is a lot of responsibility often tacked on to it, a certain lack of freedom to go along with it as well as restrictions on your location and other necessities of military life, but overall it's a great paycheque.

As for whether it means any or all officers are living the good life, as many have already pointed out, it's individual. Some have tons of kids some have none; some have spouses that also work, some have ones that don't; some have divorces, school debts, and dependent family members; some blow their paycheque on toys, some invest right off the bat; and due to these and a myriad of other factors, some officers are living paycheque to paycheque and others are looking at retiring early to a very comfortable lifestyle. 

I've seen Corporals making 55k/yr set for life and Majors making 105k/yr who can barely get by. I've seen Lieutenants looking at putting down a 25% downpayment on their first house, and MWOs at the end of their 30 year career looking for a second job to support their retirement. As with all in life, it boils down to choices and circumstances and no one person's financial situation is the same as another's. *descends from soap box*


----------



## Rogo (14 Mar 2013)

As an OCdt you get paid dirt.    If you ask me, no one in the military gets paid what they ought to (especially combat arms soldiers/officers) given the work or risk they sign up for. 

Granted unless you're a single parent with kids you should do okay and even then between the bank and you...it'll work. 

I live in Ottawa with a roommate with a car and shoot on my own time often (expensive hobby).   I also have about 10k in debt.  Sure I'll get rid of that when I get my commission but still if you do ROTP it'll be tight and even tighter if you want a car or any leisurely spending but not undoable.


----------



## jwtg (14 Mar 2013)

Rogo said:
			
		

> As an OCdt you get paid dirt.


I agree that the OCdt salary is low; I don't agree that we get paid dirt.

Factoring in free tuition, free books, and subsidized supplies, ROTP is one of the single most affordable ways to go through university.  You, as a a Civ U student, are also permitted to work a part time job to supplement your income if you so desire.

You're far better off than most students in the country, and depending on life circumstances (some imposed, some chosen), you can absolutely get through school either debt free, or with far lower debt than your civilian peers.

Considering we do very little training and virtually no operating during 4 years of school, I think we get paid just fine.


----------



## mba2011 (14 Mar 2013)

I agree! I'm a ROTP OCdt at a Civvi U and have a part time job. Yes, its difficult to make ends meet sometimes but show me a student who isn't.


----------



## Cadwr (14 Mar 2013)

dvh1 said:
			
		

> Did life change for you when you made the pay scale jump from LT to Captain?



My answer to this question from the OP:  In my opinion, one of the greatest keys to financial success in life is being able to answer "no" when answering this question.  The biggest change in my life when I made the "jump":  My monthly savings increased from about two hundred dollars to about twelve hundred.  Every thing else stayed the same for me, my stay at home wife, and my 5 kids.  And now, we enjoy a greater degree of financial security, because we made a concerted effort not to let the "jump" in pay change our lifestyle.  

Find the lifestyle you are comfortable with, live accordingly, and any money you earn beyond what is needed to support that lifestyle: save (and save wisely - savings accounts are not cool.)  Growing your lifestyle in a manner commensurate to your paycheck is very hard to undo if life ever throws you a curve ball, especially once you have a family.

And life has a Bitchin' curve ball.


----------



## krimynal (14 Mar 2013)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Postings are optional.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that was really funny , made me laugh this morning  haha ! thanks


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (14 Mar 2013)

dvh1 said:
			
		

> I have a question for any officer currently in the military. Do you think the dollar amount you get paid is fair for the amount of work you do? This is a serious question, I have done lots of research on pay scales, duties and responsibilities.
> 
> Obviously im expecting a lot of people to say they don't do it for the pay but I am looking for an honest answer. How is you financial lifestyle? Are you living check to check? Are you able to save money and still live a slightly above average lifestyle?
> 
> ...



Speaking from a junior infantry officer perspective, mate their will be times when you are sitting at work doing diddly squat saying to yourself I can't believe they are paying me this much money to do this but their will also be times when you are absolutely working your *** off either in the field or in garrison saying to yourself, you are not paying me nearly enough to do this stuff.  

We are one of the best paid Armed Forces in the world though so we get paid more then enough if you ask me.  Plus their are some things with this job that I would happily do for free   :mg:

As for savings and money?  I am a Lt in my 3rd year at an infantry battalion, I did ROTP so paid nothing for school, I have a car which is completely paid off, I have no debt, after my expenses I put away $400 to $500 dollars in savings every month and should be getting promo'ed to Captain soon so the money is good.


----------



## dimsum (14 Mar 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> We are one of the best paid Armed Forces in the world though so we get paid more then enough if you ask me.  Plus their are some things with this job that I would happily do for free   :mg:



I don't know if we're "paid more than enough."  We are definitely paid decently, according to our standard of living in Canada (most places.)  However, as an example, I (4th year Capt, not factoring aircrew pay) make as much as a RAAF 1st year Cpl Int Op, and my equivalent (FLT LT Air Combat Officer) would be earning close to $100,000 before aircrew and other allowances come in.  Plus, on deployment, my monthly hardship and risk allowance was equal to a week's allowance for them.  

All that being said, the CAF have some benefits that few (or no) other militaries provide.  The whole house-hunting trip process comes to mind; we actually get to check the area out instead of being given 2 weeks at the start of a posting to hopefully find something decent.

It may sound like a bit of a rant and "grass is greener"-esque, but I'm just providing some possibly relevant context.  Anyways, no one joins the military for the pay  :


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (14 Mar 2013)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I don't know if we're "paid more than enough."  We are definitely paid decently, according to our standard of living in Canada (most places.)  However, as an example, I (4th year Capt, not factoring aircrew pay) make as much as a RAAF 1st year Cpl Int Op, and my equivalent (FLT LT Air Combat Officer) would be earning close to $100,000 before aircrew and other allowances come in.  Plus, on deployment, my monthly hardship and risk allowance was equal to a week's allowance for them.
> 
> All that being said, the CAF have some benefits that few (or no) other militaries provide.  The whole house-hunting trip process comes to mind; we actually get to check the area out instead of being given 2 weeks at the start of a posting to hopefully find something decent.
> 
> It may sound like a bit of a rant and "grass is greener"-esque, but I'm just providing some possibly relevant context.  Anyways, no one joins the military for the pay  :



Australia is another place that gets paid well; however, cost of living and taxes are very high there so not sure how it compares to us.  My brother worked in the mining industry there and he said cost of stuff there was outrageous but maybe you would be able to elaborate a little Dimsum?


----------



## dimsum (14 Mar 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Australia is another place that gets paid well; however, cost of living and taxes are very high there so not sure how it compares to us.  My brother worked in the mining industry there and he said cost of stuff there was outrageous but maybe you would be able to elaborate a little Dimsum?



Massive off-topic tangent follows:

The one big difference I see btwn Canadian and Aussie prices is groceries.  Keeping in mind that Australia grows almost all of its own produce, it is outrageously priced compared to Canada.  The most extreme example is bananas:  From what I remember, bananas imported into Canada hovered around 69-99c a pound.  In Queensland (the state that grows them, no less), I've never seen it under $3.99/kg.  I don't use much milk, but 1L would be about $6 or so.  

Another big difference is the cost of electronics.  Apps, songs, etc for iTunes (if I need to buy them) are regularly 2x the North American price.  Same goes with sporting equipment (ex.  Vibram Fivefingers, which I got in KAF for $55, cost at least $160.)

I thought restaurant prices were expensive too, but a lot of it is mitigated since there is no tipping in Oz and all taxes are built into the final price (a great idea, IMO.)  Gas/petrol in QLD isn't too far off from say, Vancouver prices.  

I can't comment on taxes since I pay Canadian taxes while posted in Oz, but it seems fairly similar from conversations with my co-workers.  All in all, the only thing that will really affect day-to-day life is grocery prices; the rest can be either bought online (Amazon or Wiggle) and the ADF pay easily covers the difference.


----------



## dapaterson (14 Mar 2013)

Common complaint heard from some CF officers, planning to release at their 20/25 year point:  "I will be making so much more money on the outside."

Common complaint heard from the same CF officers, once they've been out in the "real world" for a year or two: "The CFRC is taking so long in accepting my application."


Your milage may vary.


----------



## secondchance (14 Mar 2013)

Always you can see on the website  http://forces.ca/en/page/payscales-131#officersregular-1  and make your own evaluation how much money you can get and how much money you need for your life.No idea why people make complaints .
It is not secret information.Go to website and think.


----------

