# Speaking of combats for cadets.....



## formercadet1029

Apparently there has been some discussion about some type of corps issued work dress uniform for army cadets that is currently being implemented or will be shortly. From what I understand it will be similar to the old style OD combat uniform, with some minor differences. Anyone know if there is any legitimacy to this or not?


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## aesop081

This what you are talking about ?


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## sapperboysen

There are combats that have been issued to the CSTC's to replace the old OG107 uniforms. These new uniforms are olive drab with the rank slide in the front and the buttons exposed. Similar to the first version of CADPAT. They have the cadets Canada logo on the left pocket of both the shirt and the pants. It's not clear if these uniforms will be issued to individual corps or not. If a work dress is issued, it would be a good bet that these uniforms will be it.


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## Lowlander

Why is that Cadet in the Cadetpat wearing a CANADA slip-on and crossed swords on his name tape?


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## PMedMoe

Lowlander said:
			
		

> Why is that Cadet in the Cadetpat wearing a CANADA slip-on and crossed swords on his name tape?



His?  Pretty sure that's a female.


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## Lowlander

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> His?  Pretty sure that's a female.



Really?


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## Journeyman

Lowlander said:
			
		

> Why is that Cadet in the Cadetpat wearing a CANADA slip-on and crossed swords on his name tape?


Gender recognition: -1    :facepalm:


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## aesop081

Lowlander said:
			
		

> Really?



Yes, really.

 :


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## marshall sl

Lowlander said:
			
		

> Why is that Cadet in the Cadetpat wearing a CANADA slip-on and crossed swords on his name tape?


  Because that's what the cadet camp issued her? She's on staff as a CSM. Cadets hold most of the NCO positions with a smattering of Reg/Res NCOs and CIC Officers.


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## shreenan

Are we talking about the large surplus of combats that CSTC Acadia just got rid of because of the end to the gunners trade?


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## formercadet1029

I believe the post by Boysen is the version they were discussing, not the kiddy cadpat stuff in the other pic.


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## PMedMoe

formercadet1029 said:
			
		

> not the *kiddy cadpat* stuff in the other pic.



 :

I've never been in Cadets, but personally, I think the other uniform looks better.  It's a distinct pattern which would separate the Cadets from the CF.  The other pic looks like someone dressed in old combats purchased at an Army surplus store.


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## ModlrMike

I have to say that the OG uniform is a better choice in my opinion. The digicam version makes them look too much like serving soldiers. I also note that there's no identifying marks on the uniform that tells one they're cadets.


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## formercadet1029

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> I have to say that the OG uniform is a better choice in my opinion. The digicam version makes them look too much like serving soldiers. I also note that there's no identifying marks on the uniform that tells one they're cadets.


I'd have to agree with you on this. Plus, after reading reviews of the kiddy cadpat as far as functionality goes, it's made of something similar to denim that doesn't dry very quickly, which makes it impractical for field use.


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## rmc_wannabe

I agree that there is no requirement for Cadets to have camoflauge pattern uniforms and the material should be quick drying, however we all have to face the reality that the OG uniforms are starting to run out of stock and are in varying states of repair. Something new, cost effective, and practical needs to make its way into the system that has staying power before these kids look like patchwork nightmares. 

I wonder if anyone has come up with the idea of the Cadet movement adopting a work dress/field dress as their standard issue rather than the dress uniforms. Functionality for an organization should trump Buttons and Bows sometimes. Right?  :worms:


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## sapperboysen

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> I agree that there is no requirement for Cadets to have camoflauge pattern uniforms and the material should be quick drying, however we all have to face the reality that the OG uniforms are starting to run out of stock and are in varying states of repair. Something new, cost effective, and practical needs to make its way into the system that has staying power before these kids look like patchwork nightmares.
> 
> I wonder if anyone has come up with the idea of the Cadet movement adopting a work dress/field dress as their standard issue rather than the dress uniforms. Functionality for an organization should trump Buttons and Bows sometimes. Right?  :worms:



The picture I posted is the solution to the OG107 running out. These are brand new uniforms, not revamped old OG's. The quality seems comparable to CADPAT and is far quicker drying then the CADETPAT. It also has the added bonus of not making the cadets look like US Marines.


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## rmc_wannabe

Boysen said:
			
		

> The picture I posted is the solution to the OG107 running out. These are brand new uniforms, *not revamped old OG's*. The quality seems comparable to CADPAT and is far quicker drying then the CADETPAT. It also has the added bonus of not making the cadets look like US Marines.



Really? Cause that certainly looks like revamped OGs to me... maybe its just a bad photo.  :


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## sapperboysen

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> Really? Cause that certainly looks like revamped OGs to me... maybe its just a bad photo.  :



These uniforms have been used at Vernon for a couple summers now so they're not looking brand new anymore.


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## rmc_wannabe

Boysen said:
			
		

> These uniforms have been used at Vernon for a couple summers now so they're not looking brand new anymore.



Ah and there is the reality there.

What is the replenishment cycle looking like for these "new" uniforms? Has a contract been written for x amount of uniforms per year to replace the old ones? Is this all just a jerry-rigged solution (much like  CADETPAT) to a long standing issue until something more permanent comes along?


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## sapperboysen

No idea on any timeline for the new uniforms. Just a lot of rumor and speculation. What I do know is that they have been issued at all the army cadet camps across Canada and they have the Cadets Canada logo embroidered on them. That leads me to think that these are more official then the CADETPAT.


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## quadrapiper

Boysen said:
			
		

> ...and they have the Cadets Canada logo embroidered on them.


A logo that was never supposed to, when introduced, end up on any uniform items.

Yet here we are today with the Maple Leaf Swoosh on all three element's parkas, and now Army Cadet field kit. Bloody wonderful.


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## sapperboysen

quadrapiper said:
			
		

> A logo that was never supposed to, when introduced, end up on any uniform items.
> 
> Yet here we are today with the Maple Leaf Swoosh on all three element's parkas, and now Army Cadet field kit. Bloody wonderful.



If that's what it takes to get army cadets issued combats, I can live with it.


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## Pryce

My solution, Have A Velcro patch on the sleeve where you would put the the RCACC logo on it and the corps identification, get rid of the crossed swords, and replace Canada with Cadet.(note. they have the CADETPAT slip on's which read "Cadet" why they were not issued with the kit is beyond me.)  I'm just shooting out ideas.


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## my72jeep

Boysen said:
			
		

> These uniforms have been used at Vernon for a couple summers now so they're not looking brand new anymore.


We had them at Blackdown in 2011 after the 4-5 washing they start to fade from greem to pink. must be a dye lot issue.


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## c.jacob

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> I also note that there's no identifying marks on the uniform that tells one they're cadets.




Simple fix with the cadet rank slip-ons.


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## formercadet1029

Pugsley said:
			
		

> Simple fix with the cadet rank slip-ons.


+1


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## Pryce

Boysen said:
			
		

> The picture I posted is the solution to the OG107 running out. These are brand new uniforms, not revamped old OG's. The quality seems comparable to CADPAT and is far quicker drying then the CADETPAT. It also has the added bonus of not making the cadets look like US Marines.



Marines don't wear berets.........


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## sapperboysen

Pugsley said:
			
		

> Simple fix with the cadet rank slip-ons.



It's only supposed to be worn with cadet slip-ons. Unfortunately that regulation is not enforced as strictly as is should be.


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## Pryce

MGalantine said:
			
		

> The average civilian will not care or notice, especially when they identify anything in camo as military, regardless of the nation it belongs to.



True,agreed.


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## arrowsmith95

Lowlander said:
			
		

> Why is that Cadet in the Cadetpat wearing a CANADA slip-on and crossed swords on his name tape?


 that would be marpat ( U.S. marine  pattern )  i have no clue why that person is wearing it they just look like a tool ( no offense ) one of my friends wore American  BDUs  to a FTX . ALL the reserves and officers chewed him out for it .


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## aesop081

arrowsmith95 said:
			
		

> that would be marpat ( U.S. marine  pattern )



No, It is not.


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## lethalLemon

arrowsmith95 said:
			
		

> that would be marpat ( U.S. marine  pattern )  i have no clue why that person is wearing it they just look like a tool ( no offense ) one of my friends wore American  BDUs  to a FTX . ALL the reserves and officers chewed him out for it .



Don't know why, as in the CATOs, other patterns of camouflage is permitted for wear in the field. You would wear ACU in Universal Pattern, or Tigerstripe, hell you could even wear multicam, Finland M05 Woodland pattern or German Flecktarn/Tropentarn and no Reservist or CIC Officer has any right to chew anyone out because it is permitted in the Orders.

CadetPAT is CadetPAT and is not MARPAT. The US Military and Marines got their digital patterns after we gave them the technology to make their own.



			
				Boysen said:
			
		

> The picture I posted is the solution to the OG107 running out. These are brand new uniforms, not revamped old OG's. The quality seems comparable to CADPAT and is far quicker drying then the CADETPAT. It also has the added bonus of not making the cadets look like US Marines.



Have you ever worn it? The Gen IV CADETPAT (which doesn't look anything close to a marine, not that it ever has) is much more durable, breathable and quick-drying. It's also stain-resistant (proof almost).


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## sapperboysen

lethalLemon said:
			
		

> Don't know why, as in the CATOs, other patterns of camouflage is permitted for wear in the field. You would wear ACU in Universal Pattern, or Tigerstripe, hell you could even wear multicam, Finland M05 Woodland pattern or German Flecktarn/Tropentarn and no Reservist or CIC Officer has any right to chew anyone out because it is permitted in the Orders.
> 
> CadetPAT is CadetPAT and is not MARPAT. The US Military and Marines got their digital patterns after we gave them the technology to make their own.
> 
> Have you ever worn it? The Gen IV CADETPAT (which doesn't look anything close to a marine, not that it ever has) is much more durable, breathable and quick-drying. It's also stain-resistant (proof almost).



I have had the displeasure of wearing CADETPAT a number of times. I'll take OG107 any day of the week. In hot weather OG107 breaths better and when it's wet, it dries faster. This is from personal experience as well as talking to a number of cadets who own the stuff. I have no doubt some people do prefer the type of material found in CADETPAT. To each their own. Is it the same camouflage pattern as MARPAT? No. Are the colours so close that they can be confused? Yes. On exercise I have had cadets wearing CADETPAT and one cadet wearing MARPAT (it had the globe and anchor built into the pattern). It wasn't till I got up close that I noticed the difference. IMHO CADETPAT is too similar to MARPAT. Olive drab is just fine and ultimately cheaper to produce.


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## lethalLemon

Boysen said:
			
		

> I have had the displeasure of wearing CADETPAT a number of times. I'll take OG107 any day of the week. In hot weather OG107 breaths better and when it's wet, it dries faster. This is from personal experience as well as talking to a number of cadets who own the stuff. I have no doubt some people do prefer the type of material found in CADETPAT. To each their own. Is it the same camouflage pattern as MARPAT? No. Are the colours so close that they can be confused? Yes. On exercise I have had cadets wearing CADETPAT and one cadet wearing MARPAT (it had the globe and anchor built into the pattern). It wasn't till I got up close that I noticed the difference. IMHO CADETPAT is too similar to MARPAT. Olive drab is just fine and ultimately cheaper to produce.



Don't see how you could not tell the difference until you got up close, they are very distinctively different. MARPAT has a different colour variance which is more heavy on the green than anything else.


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## sapperboysen

lethalLemon said:
			
		

> Don't see how you could not tell the difference until you got up close, they are very distinctively different. MARPAT has a different colour variance which is more heavy on the green than anything else.



Because they aren't that different. Especially at distance. There may be different dye lots that would alter the colours of CADETPAT from batch to batch.
As for the whole USMC pattern on cadets thing; when CADETPAT was first sourced it came from an American company, US cavalry, and the "CADETPAT" was listed as a USMC look-a-like pattern.


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## armyvern

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> Really? Cause that certainly looks like revamped OGs to me... maybe its just a bad photo.  :



It certainly does look like the thousands of sets of OG combats we had sitting obsolete once we rolled over to cadpat. I know that all those sets went to Cadet Trg Facilities; I was on the truck (just for the ride) that delivered umpteen triwalls upon triwalls full of the OG stuff to Argonaut. All the stuff sitting in depots also got set aside for cadet use. We are talking thousands and thousands of sets of it. A huge volume of this stuff WAS brand new and still in the manufacturer's boxes when we rolled over and it was delivered to CSTCs.

That photo is modified OG combat, but the only modification is the slipon to the front. Other than that, the buttons on OGs have always been exposed (someone mentioned that as a mod earlier in this thread).  Note that dude is wearing obsolete MkIIIs on his feet as well.


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## aesop081

Boysen said:
			
		

> IMHO CADETPAT is too similar to MARPAT.



Why is that a problem ?


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## q_1966

Because we are


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## fraserdw

There is definitely a requirement to fix the id of the uniform, without distinctive symbols these cadets could be mistaken for legal combatants and we are required by the treaty on Child Soldiers to make this distinction for para military youth organiztions.


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## q_1966

The cadetpat uniform was cheaply made with numerous flaws. For the newer OD combats I think they should remove the horrible Swoosh logo on the pocket and place a round RCAC patch on the shoulder (as the uniform and maple leaf on it is OD, the RCAC patch should be OD as well).

fraserdw how would you dress the cadets in a field uniform that is functional and instils espirit de corps. You could also make an argument that Scouts Canada look like child soldiers because they wear a "uniform".


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## fraserdw

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> The cadetpat uniform was cheaply made with numerous flaws. For the newer OD combats I think they should remove the horrible Swoosh logo on the pocket and place a round RCAC patch on the shoulder (as the uniform and maple leaf on it is OD, the RCAC patch should be OD as well).
> 
> fraserdw how would you dress the cadets in a field uniform that is functional and instils espirit de corps. You could also make an argument that Scouts Canada look like child soldiers because they wear a "uniform".



I would actually agree with you, that is how.  A full colour crest on an OD uniform would be quite distinctive.  By the way, I did not sign the Treaty but our military is bound by it.  As for scouts, Scouts Canada uniform is very un-military.  I am Rover Knight of the Baden Powell Council (a competing scouting org from the UK), our uniform is brown hiking boots, tan trousers, tan long sleeve shirt with Stetson Hat.  Full uniform, I do not look modern military and my crests and unit identifiers are of reasonable colour to show we are not military.  But the blue and red necker is like a big un-military.  Additionally, I believe (not sure) but I think there is mention of scouts in the Geneva Accords as a non-military civil aid org  in wartime.


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## q_1966

Even if the patch is in colour, which I'm fine with (as long as the maple leaf is red/white) it still won't change the politically correct. It will actually look similar to Cadpat, only in OD (especially due to the fact the epaulette is in front).

If Scouts wore Stetsons here (as they use too), I would be for it, however everyone else would think they were RCMP :

on another note maybe we can get Joe Fresh to redesign our field uniform
http://www.thespec.com/news/canada/article/269314--canadian-scouts-get-a-makeover :facepalm:


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## Pusser

fraserdw said:
			
		

> I would actually agree with you, that is how.  A full colour crest on an OD uniform would be quite distinctive.  By the way, I did not sign the Treaty but our military is bound by it.  As for scouts, Scouts Canada uniform is very un-military.  I am Rover Knight of the Baden Powell Council (a competing scouting org from the UK), our uniform is brown hiking boots, tan trousers, tan long sleeve shirt with Stetson Hat.  Full uniform, I do not look modern military and my crests and unit identifiers are of reasonable colour to show we are not military.  But the blue and red necker is like a big un-military.  Additionally, I believe (not sure) but I think there is mention of scouts in the Geneva Accords as a non-military civil aid org  in wartime.



Sadly, Scouting (at least in Canada) has forgotten its roots.  They often seem to overlook the fact that BP was himself a soldier and that his _Scouting for Boys _ was essentially a re-write of a similar pamphlet he had previously written for cavalry scouts.


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## Cui

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> Even if the patch is in colour, which I'm fine with (as long as the maple leaf is red/white) it still won't change the politically correct. It will actually look similar to Cadpat, only in OD (especially due to the fact the epaulette is in front).
> 
> If Scouts wore Stetsons here (as they use too), I would be for it, however everyone else would think they were RCMP :
> 
> on another note maybe we can get Joe Fresh to redesign our field uniform
> http://www.thespec.com/news/canada/article/269314--canadian-scouts-get-a-makeover :facepalm:



Joe Fresh inspired DEUs might be a good recruiting tool for the CF  ;D


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