# Canadian Federal Budget 2014 (11 Feb 2014)



## McG (28 Jan 2014)

Budget day has been set.  Canadians will have to take a step back from the Olympics long enough to see what comes out in this. 


> * Flaherty says federal budget to come down Feb. 11*
> Global News
> 27 January 2014
> 
> ...


http://globalnews.ca/news/1109406/watch-minister-of-finance-meets-private-sector-economists/


----------



## The Bread Guy (10 Feb 2014)

Here's some predictions to kick off the thread in anticipation of tomorrow's Budget speech ....


> Finance Minister Jim Flaherty says his budget to be tabled Tuesday will include targeted measures to promote job creation and protect consumers' spending power.
> 
> After years of spending cuts and austerity, Flaherty isn't about to yank open the purse strings. But in a one-on-one pre-budget interview with CBC News, the finance minister says tackling youth unemployment is a priority.
> 
> "And I agree with those who suggest there is a challenge for young people getting the first job, even (the) well-educated, well-skilled. So, we need to try to help and we will," he said ....


CBC.ca, 10 Feb 14



> The federal Conservatives are rolling out tightly targeted measures to boost Canada’s modest recovery, aiming at stubbornly high youth unemployment and pumping new funds into infrastructure projects.
> 
> Finance Minister Jim Flaherty is set to unveil on Tuesday a final phase of belt-tightening in a budget that is a prologue to balancing the books just ahead of an expected 2015 federal election – a feat the Tories hope will generate sufficient surplus cash to offer tax cuts and other inducements to voters ....


G&M, 9 Feb 14



> Tuesday’s budget will pledge funding for jobs training, particularly for youth and aboriginals, while putting Ottawa on track to “clearly” balance the books in 2015, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty says.
> 
> While painted as a “stay-the-course” budget, Flaherty suggested Sunday that the federal government will focus on getting more Canadians into the work force.
> 
> In particular, he said the funding will have an emphasis on helping youth and aboriginals find work at a time when young people face double-digit unemployment rate ....


TorStar, 9 Feb 14



> The federal budget, being tabled Tuesday, will put money into job creation and infrastructure while remaining risk-free, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty told political talk shows Sunday.
> 
> “This year we’re approaching balance,” Flaherty told Global’s The West Block. “If we really, really pushed it and took some risk, we can balance the budget earlier perhaps, but we don’t want to do that. We will balance next year in 2015.”
> 
> ...


NatPost, 9 Feb 14


----------



## Kirkhill (11 Feb 2014)

“We’ve looked at hundreds of issues and some of the most important ones are relating to jobs, relating to young people, relating to apprenticeships, relating to internships, relating to getting people that first job even though they’re well educated and so-on,” he said ....

Jayzus..... It should be a natural fit with the CF.  

Young people.  Check
Job.  Check
Training/Apprenticeships/Internships. Check (If the accreditation systems in this country weren't such a hodge podge of guilds, unions, provinces, private enterprise and plain jobbery.)

It should be a natural fit.  It won't be.   :'(


----------



## OldSolduer (11 Feb 2014)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Amen.



Just heard we lost 2 Billion. So what units will they reduce to nil strength and how many more staff positions will be created to supervise it?

I am somewhat.....dismayed over the leadership - or lack thereof - when it comes to defence matters in this nation.


----------



## jollyjacktar (11 Feb 2014)

I thought I heard Terry Maleski say $600M on CBC...


----------



## VinceW (11 Feb 2014)

Most of the cuts are to procurement they're delaying projects for a few more years.


----------



## OldSolduer (11 Feb 2014)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I thought I heard Terry Maleski say $600M on CBC...



Local radio said 2 Billion, but I may have misheard.


----------



## The Bread Guy (11 Feb 2014)

Budget 2014 site still not working as of this post, but here's the speech, courtesy of The Canadian Press (spoiler - no refs to CF):


> Mr. Speaker, nearly 150 years ago, Canada was founded with fiscal responsibility as its cornerstone. The men and women who carved this great country out of the wilderness simply called it “good government.”
> 
> That’s what Minister of Finance John Rose was talking about when he stood before this assembly to deliver Canada’s first budget speech in 1868. He said, “I say that we ought to be most careful in our outlay, and consider well every shilling we expend.”
> 
> ...


Questions in the House have the FinMin saying something to the effect that funding to the CF hasn't been cut, that it's there, but it's been "moved forward."  Longer wait for mukluks, maybe?


----------



## jollyjacktar (11 Feb 2014)

From CBC.



> Breaking
> Budget 2014: Military wings clipped again in budget
> By James Cudmore, CBC News Posted: Feb 11, 2014 4:35 PM ET Last Updated: Feb 11, 2014 4:35 PM ET
> In what amounts to the second major spanking it’s faced in as many weeks, the Defence department was effectively stripped today of more than $3 billion it had planned to spend on major new military purchases in the near future.
> ...


----------



## MARS (11 Feb 2014)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I thought I heard Terry Maleski say $600M on CBC...



3.1 billion moved to FY 16/17 according to the Globe and Mail


----------



## The Bread Guy (11 Feb 2014)

Who's up for some light (420+ pages) reading of Budget 2014 (PDF)?  ;D



			
				MARS said:
			
		

> 3.1 billion moved to FY 16/17 according to the Globe and Mail



From the document:


> .... To ensure that funding is available when needed for planned procurements, the Government is moving $3.1 billion in National Defence funding for major capital procurements from the 2013-14 to 2016-17 period to future years in which key purchases will be made ....



First-pass coverage from CBC.ca:


> In what amounts to the second major spanking it’s faced in as many weeks, the Defence department was effectively stripped today of more than $3 billion it had planned to spend on major new military purchases in the near future.
> 
> In its latest budget, the Conservative government announced it will reclaim the $3.1 billion in cash it had planned to allocate to the military over the coming years but restore if four years hence, so the gear can be bought then.
> 
> ...


----------



## AirDet (11 Feb 2014)

I'm sure we all knew it was coming but... ouch! We just got sodomized with a baseball bat and no lube!

As usual we'll see the various details over the next few days. This would be a good place to track them.


----------



## OldSolduer (11 Feb 2014)

That does make sense sort of.....it seems we are thuds when it comes to budgets. 

My expertise is not in this area.....so if anyone who is more familar with this process should explain it in terms even an Infantry RSM can understand......


----------



## The Bread Guy (11 Feb 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> I'm sure we all knew it was coming but... ouch! We just got sodomized with a baseball bat and no lube!
> 
> As usual we'll see the various details over the next few days. This would be a good place to track them.



Interesting choice of words - any details shared would be nice.

Also, merging into discussion already under way.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## AirDet (11 Feb 2014)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Interesting choice of words - any details shared would be nice.
> 
> Also, merging into discussion already under way.
> 
> *Milnet.ca Staff*



Thanks for moving my post. I didn't see this thread earlier when looking for an appropriate place.

As for the budget, we've lost 4 Billion Cdn. That's just a start. I'm sure there are other paragraphs that apply to VAC or our DND Pers.

I'm going to have a look at the online document tonight but I think it's a fair assessment that the proposed LSS (ships) are gone. The new fighter purchase is likely being sent back to the drawing board (at least until after the next election).

On the up side, this is essentially a balanced budget! Next year is forecasted to be a surplus budget. This isn't an easy feat and it will have a positive long-term effect on Canada.


----------



## slayer/raptor (11 Feb 2014)

Has the money for postings been cut?


----------



## OldSolduer (11 Feb 2014)

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Has the money for postings been cut?



Too early to tell I think.

I can imagine the gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands in the upper echelons......


----------



## Transporter (11 Feb 2014)

I was really hoping for income splitting... thought they might sneak that one in there this year.


----------



## Bird_Gunner45 (11 Feb 2014)

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Has the money for postings been cut?



Only for Major and below  ;D


----------



## dapaterson (11 Feb 2014)

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Has the money for postings been cut?



Decisions on funding for cost moves for this APS and beyond were made well in advance of the federal budget.  That's internal to DND/CAF prioritization of O&M allocations.


----------



## George Wallace (11 Feb 2014)

VETERANS HIT AGAIN.

If any of you have been watching the news, it was announced that the Federal Public Service Health Care Plan is more than doubling its costs to retired members; from $261 to $550.  The point that this is the Public Service Health Care Plan is letting the fact that it is also the plan that members of the CAF and RCMP use, and many retain after retiring, has slipped by seemingly unnoticed by anyone as of yet.  Even with indexing, that is a large chunk of cash removed from one's pension, more that that covered by indexing.  Once again, the Government has screwed over the Veteran.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (11 Feb 2014)

I think The Conservatives have pretty much lost the Military vote.


----------



## OldSolduer (11 Feb 2014)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> I think The Conservatives have pretty much lost the Military vote.



Considering that we are spread out all over Canada......I don't think they really care.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (11 Feb 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Considering that we are spread out all over Canada......I don't think they really care.



I think you are right....I think they sold us a big song and dance.

Sad to say I think we are triple f#cked the next election. Where is the zombie apocalypse when you need one.


----------



## dapaterson (11 Feb 2014)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Where is the zombie apocalypse when you need one.



There is a Canadian version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7onFrBK_hKE


----------



## PuckChaser (11 Feb 2014)

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Has the money for postings been cut?



My CM is all doom and gloom for cost moves this year, but I have a sneaky suspicion that's because DND was anticipating another 10% budget cut.


----------



## slayer/raptor (11 Feb 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Decisions on funding for cost moves for this APS and beyond were made well in advance of the federal budget.  That's internal to DND/CAF prioritization of O&M allocations.



I'm no expert in this field but our Career Manager was saying that they were waiting for the budget to come out to find out how much money they had for their cost moves.


----------



## PPCLI Guy (11 Feb 2014)

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> I'm no expert in this field but our Career Manager was saying that they were waiting for the budget to come out to find out how much money they had for their cost moves.



Different budget.....or the CM was talking though his / her ass.


----------



## DAA (11 Feb 2014)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> Different budget.....or the CM was talking though his / her ***.



Interesting.  I had a brief a few weeks ago and the subject of cost moves came up.  Sounded like the issue of postings was being looked at much closer by DGMC or CMP with the concept of "Why move someone, from one location to another, just to do the same job they were doing for the sake of moving of them."  Sort of makes sense when you think about it.


----------



## AirDet (11 Feb 2014)

DAA said:
			
		

> Interesting.  I had a brief a few weeks ago and the subject of cost moves came up.  Sounded like the issue of postings was being looked at much closer by DGMC or CMP with the concept of "Why move someone, from one location to another, just to do the same job they were doing for the sake of moving of them."  Sort of makes sense when you think about it.



Well, if you were running a business would you spend money to move people just for the sake of a move?


----------



## dangerboy (11 Feb 2014)

DAA said:
			
		

> Interesting.  I had a brief a few weeks ago and the subject of cost moves came up.  Sounded like the issue of postings was being looked at much closer by DGMC or CMP with the concept of "Why move someone, from one location to another, just to do the same job they were doing for the sake of moving of them."  Sort of makes sense when you think about it.



But it sucks for the member if he is in a place that they hate and has been there for several years.


----------



## PuckChaser (11 Feb 2014)

DAA said:
			
		

> Interesting.  I had a brief a few weeks ago and the subject of cost moves came up.  Sounded like the issue of postings was being looked at much closer by DGMC or CMP with the concept of "Why move someone, from one location to another, just to do the same job they were doing for the sake of moving of them."  Sort of makes sense when you think about it.



Career progression?

Moving someone from COMSEC vault to COMSEC vault is useless, but stagnating someone in a base with limited positions to fill isn't good either. We have to find a balance between having someone sit in a base for 15 years, and moving across country every 2.


----------



## GAP (11 Feb 2014)

Why does it have to be 2 years? In two years a member has been trained, trialed and is finally getting into the groove. He/she is accumulating knowledge of the site and the people, as the people are getting a read on them. 

Then you move them. If it is an upward/downward move, that's fine...people grow....but to just do it because that is the way it is done, serve little purpose....


----------



## dapaterson (11 Feb 2014)

On average, excluding off BTL and retirement moves, Reg F members would move every 8 years.  Some more, some less, but 8 years was about the average.  (Based on Reg F trained strength divided by planned number of moves)

With less money, that number will climb up.


----------



## The Bread Guy (11 Feb 2014)

Deep breaths, folks....

ceasefire.ca response (links to e-mail saved at non-ceasefire.ca site) to the budget:  _*"Still overspending on National Defence"*_

And what do they want instead?  This excerpt, written by ceasefire.ca folk, from a recently released "alternative budget":


> .... The AFB (Alternative Federal Budget) will reduce the size of the Department of National Defence to its pre–September 11, 2001 level (adjusted for inflation). The 2000–01 budget was $11.9 billion, or $15.8
> billion in 2013 dollars. The AFB will reduce the current $19 billion budget by $3.2 billion over three years to $15.8 billion.
> 
> National Defence spending could easily afford more reductions, if hard choices were made, to its force structure and essential capabilities.
> ...


----------



## PPCLI Guy (11 Feb 2014)

The sad thing is, they are probably right......



> National Defence spending could easily afford more reductions, if hard choices were made, to its force structure and essential capabilities.


----------



## Tibbson (11 Feb 2014)

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Has the money for postings been cut?



I'm hoping they do something.  My position # has been moved outside the AOR and it's not like I can stay here.  I have two other Units I could go to here but each of them lost a position as well.  As a result, within my AOR, we are already overborne by a total of four at my rank level.  

If the four of us have to stay and job share....I want Wednesdays!!!


----------



## honestyrules (11 Feb 2014)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Because one of those "same" jobs is in butt-frig nowhere where the spouse can't find employment and the other is in City X (where there's many opportunities for spouse), healthcare is unavailable, opportunities for children in sports etc suck for example. Essentially, this train of thought fails to consider that despite jobs being similar, quality of life is *not*. You are, in essence, making that one family's standard of living/QOL better than the next soldier's and are no longer affording like opportunities to military families.
> 
> Common sense must come into play at some point.  It's all good *if* you aren't the guy being screwed.
> 
> Before anything is said, I fully realize that operational requirements of the CF come first --- hard to miss that point after now 6 years straight of being posted separately from my own family with no move until at least 2015 due to cuts.  Only 100 moves for our trade this year (we are a huge trade!) --- and we knew that before this budget was announced.  Glad our 4 kids are grown up and out of the house.  Certainly my husband won't be posted here either ... as he was just posted this past summer. And, I have no doubt that at this rate my by-then 7 years will be longer as I probably won't be posted to where he is posted to (karma) --- almost pensionable.



Agreed. 

Imagine the folks in Cold Lake, maybe expecting to get out of there this APS for a better place, with the prospect of "you're staying another year"...


----------



## Tibbson (11 Feb 2014)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> I think The Conservatives have pretty much lost the Military vote.



Sadly I don't see a viable alternative.  In my time in we've been screwed by all of them at one time or another.  At least the Conservatives kissed us first.


----------



## armyvern (11 Feb 2014)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> The sad thing is, they are probably right......



Agreed.


----------



## Transporter (11 Feb 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> VETERANS HIT AGAIN.
> 
> If any of you have been watching the news, it was announced that the Federal Public Service Health Care Plan is more than doubling its costs to retired members; from $261 to $550.  The point that this is the Public Service Health Care Plan is letting the fact that it is also the plan that members of the CAF and RCMP use, and many retain after retiring, has slipped by seemingly unnoticed by anyone as of yet.  Even with indexing, that is a large chunk of cash removed from one's pension, more that that covered by indexing.  Once again, the Government has screwed over the Veteran.


 Last straw for me... it'll be A-B-C (anything but conservative) from here on out (though I wish there were better alternatives). The Cons have been slowly, but surely, taking money out of our pockets, one way or another, for years now. I'm done.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (11 Feb 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> Last straw for me... it'll be A-B-C (anything but conservative) from here on out (though I wish there were better alternatives). The Cons have been slowly, but surely, taking money out of our pockets, one way or another, for years now. I'm done.



Well the reds won't be any better...and the orange...well....I don't know....


----------



## Transporter (11 Feb 2014)

The Cons keep saying their primary target is the PS - and they're not shy about advertising that fact - but every time they hit the PS we get caught in the collateral damage. Loss of severance pay, increased pension contributions, now increased PSHCP payments in retirement. I doubt you'll see them proudly boasting about those "accomplishments" to the Canadian public.


----------



## PuckChaser (11 Feb 2014)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> and the orange...well....I don't know....



I don't ever want to know what would happen to us under them or the greens....


----------



## Transporter (11 Feb 2014)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I don't ever want to know what would happen to us under them or the greens....


 Four day work weeks and deployments optional  ;D


----------



## meni0n (11 Feb 2014)

We've been told if there are no cost moves this APS, don't expect any promotions.


----------



## Grunt_031 (12 Feb 2014)

The brief/townhall we had today, was that the CF is moving to the RCMP style of posting where you should expect to stay in location (8-10 years) unless..... you have the specific skills sets that are required and that it cannot be posted by a pers already in the geographical area ( ie no cost move). Additionally to complement this change, the PER system being modified so a member is not penalized for his/her now lack of experience in a presently required career position/experience.


----------



## armyvern (12 Feb 2014)

Then they'd better lighten up the purse strings for cost-moves for some trades then, because at 100 CMs APS 14 (the number for my trade) ... it would take a minimum of 20 years to move each person one single time.  I would also bet drinks on my trade having well-over 100 pers with +10 years in a location right now.


----------



## Journeyman (12 Feb 2014)

Transporter said:
			
		

> Four day work weeks and deployments optional  ;D


So we're all going to the Reserves (when you combine Cl A and Cl B)?


----------



## Halifax Tar (12 Feb 2014)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I don't ever want to know what would happen to us under them or the greens....



Probably close the whole shop down and move us into the RCMP, Coast Guard and Air Canada... Wait a minute... I like that idea


----------



## OldSolduer (12 Feb 2014)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I don't ever want to know what would happen to us under them or the greens....



Jean Chrétien went on the record in the late 80s stating he wanted us to help take care of the environment. Seriously. 
So the bayonet would be useful on the end of a stick to pick up trash.

But knowing the "nanny state " we would be subjected to, they would demand that the bayonets not be used as they are seen to be "too aggressive" and would be replaced by knife, sturdy plastic.


----------



## blackberet17 (12 Feb 2014)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> Probably close the whole shop down and move us into the RCMP, Coast Guard and Air Canada... Wait a minute... I like that idea



Minus the Air Canada part...


----------



## GAP (12 Feb 2014)

Quote from: Halifax Tar on Today at 05:28:26


> Probably close the whole shop down and move us into the RCMP, Coast Guard and Air Canada... Wait a minute... I like that idea





			
				blackberet17 said:
			
		

> Minus the Air Canada part...



You do realize how many women work at Air Canada, don't you?......think about it.... ;D


----------



## OldSolduer (12 Feb 2014)

GAP said:
			
		

> Quote from: Halifax Tar on Today at 05:28:26
> You do realize how many women work at Air Canada, don't you?......think about it.... ;D



Yes and from what I have seen about 50 % of them are beyond their best before date......much like me. There I said it.


----------



## Lightguns (12 Feb 2014)

mmmmm......... 60 something former hot chicks...... 8)


----------



## dapaterson (12 Feb 2014)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> mmmmm......... 60 something former hot chicks...... 8)



... should I be surprised someone from Gagetown posted this?


----------



## sidemount (12 Feb 2014)

I find it quite interesting that the federal budget timing was right in the middle of the olympics....makes it seem like they wanted the mass of canadians to just gloss over it....

food for though i guess haha


----------



## GrimRX (12 Feb 2014)

Anyone else get that email telling us to shut our gobs about the budget if approached by the press? lol


----------



## AirDet (12 Feb 2014)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Well the reds won't be any better...and the orange...well....I don't know....




There's always Elizabeth May and the Greenies!  :rofl:


----------



## PuckChaser (12 Feb 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> But knowing the "nanny state " we would be subjected to, they would demand that the bayonets not be used as they are seen to be "too aggressive" and would be replaced by knife, sturdy _lowest bidder_, plastic.



Fixed that for you, can't forget about our beloved public servants getting us the best kit.


----------



## AirDet (12 Feb 2014)

GrimRX said:
			
		

> Anyone else get that email telling us to shut our gobs about the budget if approached by the press? lol



Oops! Too late.  :facepalm:

Well as a private citizen we have the right to an opinion. Expressing that opinion in uniform is another matter completely. :-X


----------



## Tibbson (12 Feb 2014)

GAP said:
			
		

> Quote from: Halifax Tar on Today at 05:28:26
> You do realize how many women work at Air Canada, don't you?......think about it.... ;D



Yes but the last time I flew Air Canada it appeared they were all quickly approaching CRA.  Air Canada has been shedding people for years so it's only those with enough seniority that could stick around.


----------



## observor 69 (13 Feb 2014)

I would have thought SAR would be treated differently. Expect the usual tight budget dump on the three services but SAR has a high public profile and needs some new planes if it is stay clear of a rescue mission comprised due to the wrong aircraft or no aircraft.
Then again there is this bureaucratic mumbo jumbo :
Government of Canada releases draft RFP for Fixed-Wing Search and Rescue Aircraft Replacement Project
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?mthd=tp&crtr.page=1&nid=768259&crtr.tp1D=1

*LINK REMOVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SITE POLICY*


----------



## PuckChaser (13 Feb 2014)

But there's no chance in hell they're delivering any sort of planes for FWSAR this year. Your draft RFP is as close as you'll get, I bet.


----------



## Kirkhill (13 Feb 2014)

Thanks for bringing FWSAR back to the front.....

Project Activities in the last year

Rumour has it they have been involved in consultations with industry.   :

Gawdelp you all.


----------



## McG (14 Feb 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If any of you have been watching the news, it was announced that the Federal Public Service Health Care Plan is more than doubling its costs to retired members; from $261 to $550.  The point that this is the Public Service Health Care Plan is letting the fact that it is also the plan that members of the CAF and RCMP use, and many retain after retiring, has slipped by seemingly unnoticed by anyone as of yet.  Even with indexing, that is a large chunk of cash removed from one's pension, more that that covered by indexing.  Once again, the Government has screwed over the Veteran.


The press is looking at this now:


> * Retired soldiers, Mounties hit by Conservative budget changes
> Budget 2014 finds savings in cutting contribution to health plan for retired public servants*
> James Cudmore, CBC News
> 13 February 2014
> ...


 http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/retired-soldiers-mounties-hit-by-conservative-budget-changes-1.2535875

... and there may be a legal challenge:


> * Retiree group considers legal response to changes to health care plan*
> Kathryn May, OTTAWA CITIZEN
> 13 February 2014
> 
> ...


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/Retiree+group+considers+legal+response+changes+health+care/9506170/story.html


----------

