# Pepper-Potting



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Tue, 2 Jan 2001 18:27:52 -0700*
Actually, the term is Pepper Potting. It is supposed to originate from a
late night mess dinner some many decades ago when some old Colonel
explained, with the use of the mess silver including the pepper pot to
represent sections, groups/detachments, etc, this basic movement. "Now when
I was on the Indian Frontier as a young subaltern, we...."
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter deVries 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: Joining the Brits
> Matt,
>    I don‘t think you will find an army as respected as the Canadian army.
I
> know Americans who thought that the Canadians were crazy because they were
> so unconventional during field training exercises. I also heard that
> Canadian troops are far more disciplined than the Brits No offense
> intended and example of this is during the Falkland war. In the infantry
> I‘m not sure if you are familiar with this there are attacks section,
> platoon, company, etc... during a section attack you do what is called
> firemovement which is also called pepper podding. which means you are
> broken down in to teams section, group, team-all this means is the number
> of people working together within the section with one person firing
while
> the other moves. Usually you go down into the prone position when firing.
> The person moving takes about 3 steps UP-HE-SEES-ME-DOWN andthen gets
down
> in a firing position. Anyway, what happened in the Falklands was that when
> the Brits started the approach on the enemy, they wouldn‘t get up to bound
> their 3 steps during the attack, and therefor the attacks didn‘t work very
> well.
SNIP
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:33:44 -0500*
Not sure the souce of the name, Ian, but certainly it was a tactic used by
light companies of Wellington‘s infantry in the Peninsula Campaign...
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 8:27 PM
Subject: Pepper "Podding"
> Actually, the term is Pepper Potting. It is supposed to originate from a
> late night mess dinner some many decades ago when some old Colonel
> explained, with the use of the mess silver including the pepper pot to
> represent sections, groups/detachments, etc, this basic movement. "Now
when
> I was on the Indian Frontier as a young subaltern, we...."
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter deVries 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 5:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Joining the Brits
>
>
> > Matt,
> >    I don‘t think you will find an army as respected as the Canadian
army.
> I
> > know Americans who thought that the Canadians were crazy because they
were
> > so unconventional during field training exercises. I also heard that
> > Canadian troops are far more disciplined than the Brits No offense
> > intended and example of this is during the Falkland war. In the
infantry
> > I‘m not sure if you are familiar with this there are attacks section,
> > platoon, company, etc... during a section attack you do what is called
> > firemovement which is also called pepper podding. which means you are
> > broken down in to teams section, group, team-all this means is the
number
> > of people working together within the section with one person firing
> while
> > the other moves. Usually you go down into the prone position when
firing.
> > The person moving takes about 3 steps UP-HE-SEES-ME-DOWN andthen gets
> down
> > in a firing position. Anyway, what happened in the Falklands was that
when
> > the Brits started the approach on the enemy, they wouldn‘t get up to
bound
> > their 3 steps during the attack, and therefor the attacks didn‘t work
very
> > well.
> SNIP
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:02:11 -0400*
I believe the classical term, and the one that was rejuvenated in the
Warrior Handbook, was "skirmishing."
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Gow 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pepper "Podding"
> Not sure the souce of the name, Ian, but certainly it was a tactic used by
> light companies of Wellington‘s infantry in the Peninsula Campaign...
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 8:27 PM
> Subject: Pepper "Podding"
>
>
> > Actually, the term is Pepper Potting. It is supposed to originate from a
> > late night mess dinner some many decades ago when some old Colonel
> > explained, with the use of the mess silver including the pepper pot to
> > represent sections, groups/detachments, etc, this basic movement. "Now
> when
> > I was on the Indian Frontier as a young subaltern, we...."
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:05:19 -0700*
When I mentioned the Northwest Frontier I was engaging in a little
hyperbole. I have no idea which battle was first being discussed. The
concept probably dates back at least to Roman times.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gow 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pepper "Podding"
> Not sure the souce of the name, Ian, but certainly it was a tactic used by
> light companies of Wellington‘s infantry in the Peninsula Campaign...
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 8:27 PM
> Subject: Pepper "Podding"
>
>
> > Actually, the term is Pepper Potting. It is supposed to originate from a
> > late night mess dinner some many decades ago when some old Colonel
> > explained, with the use of the mess silver including the pepper pot to
> > represent sections, groups/detachments, etc, this basic movement. "Now
> when
> > I was on the Indian Frontier as a young subaltern, we...."
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Peter deVries 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 5:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: Joining the Brits
> >
> >
> > > Matt,
> > >    I don‘t think you will find an army as respected as the Canadian
> army.
> > I
> > > know Americans who thought that the Canadians were crazy because they
> were
> > > so unconventional during field training exercises. I also heard that
> > > Canadian troops are far more disciplined than the Brits No offense
> > > intended and example of this is during the Falkland war. In the
> infantry
> > > I‘m not sure if you are familiar with this there are attacks
section,
> > > platoon, company, etc... during a section attack you do what is
called
> > > firemovement which is also called pepper podding. which means you are
> > > broken down in to teams section, group, team-all this means is the
> number
> > > of people working together within the section with one person firing
> > while
> > > the other moves. Usually you go down into the prone position when
> firing.
> > > The person moving takes about 3 steps UP-HE-SEES-ME-DOWN andthen
gets
> > down
> > > in a firing position. Anyway, what happened in the Falklands was that
> when
> > > the Brits started the approach on the enemy, they wouldn‘t get up to
> bound
> > > their 3 steps during the attack, and therefor the attacks didn‘t work
> very
> > > well.
> > SNIP
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:15:43 -0500*
I don‘t know, and you might, Mike...but did not skirmishing, as a 
"formalised tactic" more or less start with Wellington, and his 
indevours to have the line defeat the column?
Again, of course in the action with any weapon, there is what‘s known as 
"skirmishing", but I‘m referring to paired groups of infanteers, 
covering and advancing and in the retrogade movement, as well!!
Or would this have dated to the Revolutionary War, with the Americans 
using less "continental" tactics?
Great tactic, BTW, even today, ‘til you remember that very time you 
stick your head up, there‘s a statistical chance of geting sho...so it 
does take very disciplined and motivated soldiers...
John
I don‘t know, and you might, Mike...but did not 
skirmishing,
as a "formalised tactic" more or less start with Wellington, and his 
indevours
to have the line defeat the column?
Again, of course in the action with any weapon, 
there is
what‘s known as "skirmishing", but I‘m referring to paired groups of 
infanteers,
covering and advancing and in the retrogade movement, as 
well!!
Or would this have dated to the Revolutionary War, 
with the
Americans using less "continental" tactics?
Great tactic, BTW, even today, ‘til you remember 
that very
time you stick your head up, there‘s a statistical chance of geting 
sho...so it
does take very disciplined and motivated soldiers...
John
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:02:56 -0400*
I would agree, John, that skirmishing as an infantry tactic as known by 
the European armies probably started with in North America 
Revolutionary War or Indian Wars, but it was probably used mainly by 
irregular troops Roger‘s Rangers, et al. It was not, in that era, a 
gentlemanly approach to warfare such skulking was cowardly and thus 
likely spurned by professional European soldiers.
As a more formal inclusion to the infantry bag of tricks I would suspect 
that the Peninsular Campaign was a likely origin. IIRC, the light 
companies were first formed from the more intelligent and skilled 
soldiers of each regiment and then these companies were grouped into 
special detachments for tasks that the line companies were considered 
too unwieldy for due to terrain, task, etc. Their employment as 
skirmishers upon regrouping to the parent battalions would have been a 
natural evolution of their increasing flexibility and, often, better 
weapons than the line companies carried. Once one side deployed 
skirmishers forward armed with rifled muskets, the other side was 
compelled to also do so to neutralize the threat.
The light company soldiers, therefore, would deploy forward to cover the 
main body and, as the two forces closed on one another, they would 
skirmish rearward as the distance needed to take advantage of their 
capabilities was eliminated.
You might want to review my article on the Infantry Section Attack at 
 http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/papers/sect-atk.htm  for an examination 
of the effectiveness of skirmishing as a principal section attack 
tactic in a modern army.
Mike
The Regimental Rogue
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Gow
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 10:15 PM
  Subject: Pepper-Potting
  I don‘t know, and you might, Mike...but did not skirmishing, as a 
"formalised tactic" more or less start with Wellington, and his 
indevours to have the line defeat the column?

  Again, of course in the action with any weapon, there is what‘s known 
as "skirmishing", but I‘m referring to paired groups of infanteers, 
covering and advancing and in the retrogade movement, as well!!

  Or would this have dated to the Revolutionary War, with the Americans 
using less "continental" tactics?

  Great tactic, BTW, even today, ‘til you remember that very time you 
stick your head up, there‘s a statistical chance of geting sho...so it 
does take very disciplined and motivated soldiers...

  John
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
I would agree, John, that skirmishing 
as an
infantry tactic as known by the European armies probably started with in 
North
America Revolutionary War or Indian Wars, butit was 
probablyused
mainly by irregular troops Roger‘s Rangers, et al. It was not, in that 
era, a
gentlemanly approach to warfare such skulking was cowardlyand 
thus
likely spurned by professional European soldiers.
As a more formal inclusion to the 
infantry bag of
tricks I would suspect that the Peninsular Campaign was a likely origin. 
IIRC,
the light companies were first formed from the more intelligent and 
skilled
soldiers of each regiment and then these companies were grouped into 
special
detachments for tasks that the line companies were considered too 
unwieldy for
due to terrain, task, etc. Their employment as skirmishers upon 
regrouping to
the parent battalions would have been a natural evolution of their 
increasing
flexibility and, often, better weapons than the line companies carried. 
Once one
side deployed skirmishers forward armed with rifled muskets, the other 
side was
compelled to also do so to neutralize the threat. 
The light company soldiers, therefore, 
would deploy
forward to cover the main body and, as the two forces closed on one 
another,
they would skirmish rearward as the distance needed to take advantage of 
their
capabilities was eliminated.
You might want to review my article on 
the Infantry
Section Attack at  http://reg 
imentalrogue.tripod.com/papers/sect-atk.htmfor
an examination of the effectiveness of skirmishing as a principal 
section
attack tactic in a modern army.
Mike
The
Regimental Rogue
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Gow 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 
10:15
  PM
  Subject: Pepper-Potting

  I don‘t know, and you might, Mike...but did not 
skirmishing,
  as a "formalised tactic" more or less start with Wellington, and his 
indevours
  to have the line defeat the column?

  Again, of course in the action with any weapon, 
there is
  what‘s known as "skirmishing", but I‘m referring to paired groups of
  infanteers, covering and advancing and in the retrogade movement, as
  well!!

  Or would this have dated to the Revolutionary War, 
with the
  Americans using less "continental" tactics?

  Great tactic, BTW, even today, ‘til you remember 
that very
  time you stick your head up, there‘s a statistical chance of geting 
sho...so
  it does take very disciplined and motivated soldiers...

  John
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Barton Downey <bdowney@CYBERBEACH.NET>* on *Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:31:31 -0500*
On the subject of pepper potting, I remember seeing an old Brit movie on
TVO during the late seventies. This movie was either "The Four Feathers"
circa 1938or "The Life and Times of Colonel Blimp"c. 1942. In any
event the idea of Pepper Potting was a reoccurring symbol throughout the
film. If anyone knows which film it occurs in they can let the list
know. The point is that the idea of pepper potting must have been strong
enough at that time to have taken some symbolic strength in brit
literature and resultant films.
Barton Downey
Sudbury, Ontario
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