# MP qualifications



## qenty909 (30 Nov 2010)

I have an acquaintance Who constantly refers to himself an an MP. Within the first or second sentence of him meeting someone, he will tell the person he is an MP. I found it kind of strange that he constantly brought the subject up, so I asked him a little bit more about his military service. This person is a reservist, has not gone to Borden and received MP training, does not have a badge #, and has no post secondary education in any field. I have seen pictures of him in a uniform that appears to be an MP uniform.  Can this person, or any other meeting this description be entitled in some way to actually be an MP without meeting the set qualifications?


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## MPwannabe (30 Nov 2010)

There are Reservist MP's, but I'm quite sure they do not fall under 'Peace Officer' status. They do not carry guns either. So far as my understanding, they are the reservist equivalent of auxiliary police (but get paid). 
I would assume that a Reservist MP would need training though, and would indeed be issued a badge number. 

He could get in some massively deep shit if he is totally lying. Impersonating a Peace Officer? That's bad ju-ju.


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## aesop081 (30 Nov 2010)

MPwannabe said:
			
		

> and would indeed be issued a badge number.



AFAIK, they do not have badges and thus no badge number. Reserve MPs , at least from when i remember working with a few, are much different that their regular force counterparts.


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## garb811 (30 Nov 2010)

This issue has been covered at length in other threads in this sub-forum however, the Coles Notes version:

Army Reserve MP do not have to currently meet the same standard as Reg Force MPs.  Air Force Reserve MPs must.

If an Army Reserve MP does not meet the same standard as a Reg Force MP, they cannot attend the Reg Force MP course and be appointed MP (given credentials).

If an Army Reserve MP does meet the standard and does attend the Reg Force MP course, they MAY be issued a badge which they carry while on duty and conducting police operations only, as happens with Air Reserve MP.

If your friend is indeed a Reserve MP and has pictures of himself in Occupational Patrol Dress (OPD) and he is not appointed MP, he is impersonating a Peace Officer.

If your friend has pictures of him in CADPAT with a Red Beret and a MP brassard, or even if he is wearing CADPAT with the Black MP body armour, he is not impersonating a Peace Officer.  He is simply a MP Reservist wearing their authorized uniform.

The fact that your friend feels the need to bring up the fact he is a MP, makes him a tool whether he has a badge or not.

Given the upcoming changes in the MP Branch, tell your friend to enjoy the short time he has left to call himself a MP, it won't be long before he is told to find another trade.


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## MPwannabe (30 Nov 2010)

WHAMMO!   ^

Thanks for clearing that up for us Garb.


Here is a thread in these boards that will also help clear things up and answer any further questions you have: 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/4280.30


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## Veovius (1 Dec 2010)

garb811 said:
			
		

> Given the upcoming changes in the MP Branch, tell your friend to enjoy the short time he has left to call himself a MP, it won't be long before he is told to find another trade.



I'm curious (again, go figure  :), what are you referring to?


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## MagiChrist (1 Dec 2010)

I think (correct me if i'm wrong) Garb811 means that soon, Reserve MPs will need the same requirements that the Regular army (Police foundation diploma or Bachelor degree). Not a good idea in my opinion but we will see ...


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## garb811 (1 Dec 2010)

MagiChrist:  Yes, that is what I'm referring to.

It may be your opinion that it is a mistake, but it is not.  In their current iteration, Army Reserve MP do not meet the requirements the Branch has for them.  Yes, they have done stellar service in Afghanistan mainly because you don't need to be appointed "MP" to work with POMLT or at the DTF and the Branch would have failed at those tasks had Army Reserve MP not been available to fill the spots the Reg Force could not.  On the other hand, Army Reserve MP are no good to backfill guardhouses when a Reg Force member deploys, goes on PATA/MATA etc or when the requirement on Operations requires the MP be fully trained to investigate and to be appointed pursuant to Sec 156 of the NDA in order to fully conduct Police Operations.  People always try to argue with, "But in Bosnia..." or, "But my friend did a backfill callout at CFB xxxx..." etc but having had Army Reserve MP working for me in those exact scenarios, a Commissionaire would have been just as useful (and cheaper) because the Army Reserve MP couldn't do what I really needed them to do, which was to be able to fully replace the Reg Force member who's position they were in.


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## MagiChrist (2 Dec 2010)

Garb811, I agree fully with what you said and thank you for your view on the subject. A reservist in the trade can't do the same job that a regular MP and that is a big difficulty. The problem is what exactly the Regular Force is gonna do with the Reserve MPs who are already in. I would want your opinion on this because you have a lot of experience in the trade. In my opinion, I don't think they are a lot of options here :

1. Make them change trade ;
2. Let them stay in the trade and offer them the Reg Force's MP course ;
3. Or in the worst scenario release them from the army (should not happen and never will).

The problem with option number 1 is that the majority of Reserve MPs don't have the diploma needed to stay in the trade. Furthermore, most of them won't want to change trade (with good reasons). Also, I don't know how much they are in the Reserve but it will be very costly, take a lot of instructors and time to make them skilled in a new trade.

Option number 2 would be difficult to put in application for multiple reasons. First of all, a lot of Reserve MPs have full time job and won't be able to attend the Canadian Forces Military Police Academy in Borden for 6 months (maybe the Regular Force could give them credit depending of the time they worked as reservists). Most of all, does the CFMPA have enough instructors and money for more than two anglophones and one francophone courses per year ?

Another problem would be with the recruitment of new recruits. Would a Reserve MP Regiment have enough members with only people with the Police Foundation Diploma/Bachelor Degree to subsist and be able to accomplish it's work ?


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## Veovius (2 Dec 2010)

MagiChrist said:
			
		

> Most of all, does the CFMPA have enough instructors and money for more than two anglophones and one francophone courses per year ?



I thought I heard someone say that there were 7 Academy courses running next year, when we were on the MPAC.  24 to a course, x7 = 168 MPs.


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## garb811 (2 Dec 2010)

MagiChrist:  Your three options are the three options that Res MP are going to have.  Similar has happened in the past when the Res MP Platoons were split from the Service Battalions.  There was a consolidation of MP resources and some of the less viable Platoons were disbanded.  People were given a grace period during which they had to make up their mind to re-muster, transfer to one of the remaining MP Platoons or release.  

Over the past couple of years Res MP have been attending MPAC and the Reg Force QL3.  These are individuals who either met the educational pre-req or who had recent experience on operations.  Some of those Res pers subsequently did a component transfer to the Reg Force, but many did not.  Currently, many Res MP units have ceased recruiting pers who do not meet the educational requirement pending the full implementation of the "badging" process for Res MP, but I've also heard of other units which are carrying on business as usual.  For the course issue, the Academy is running pilots of split Res MP courses where a Res MP will get part 1 one summer and part 2 the next with on-going education at their home unit in between. 

Veovius:  I'm not sure exactly how many courses the Academy runs a year, I think it varies between 5-8 depending on a number of factors.  Of note, most courses are not max loaded and even then, most do not graduate all the candidates who commence.


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## MPwannabe (2 Dec 2010)

What's the reason for them failing the course? Is the course load difficult to pass, test-wise?


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## Cdnleaf (2 Dec 2010)

garb811 said:
			
		

> The fact that your friend feels the need to bring up the fact he is a MP, makes him a tool whether he has a badge or not.



 :rofl:  Best quote this week / thanks.


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## garb811 (2 Dec 2010)

People don't complete for a variety of reasons.  Some fail for academics, some for practical.  Some get injured, some quit.


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## MPwannabe (2 Dec 2010)

Nothing out of the ordinary then. The only ones I pity are those who get injured on course.


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## garb811 (2 Dec 2010)

Why? You get injured on course, chances are you'll be put on hold to heal, then put on the next course.  You fail, or quit, you're done.  If you're "lucky" you'll be offered a occupational transfer.


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## MPwannabe (2 Dec 2010)

I meant that I have no sympathy to those who don't have the testicular fortitude to complete the course. It just sucks for those who are competent, but are hurt and have to be held back for a short period of time.


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## Nauticus (2 Dec 2010)

MPwannabe said:
			
		

> I meant that I have no sympathy to those who don't have the testicular fortitude to complete the course. It just sucks for those who are competent, but are hurt and have to be held back for a short period of time.



Don't speak too soon. You haven't completed the course, and it isn't necessarily "testicular fortitude" that determines a pass or a fail.


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## MPwannabe (2 Dec 2010)

You're right, I'll shut my trap before it gets me into trouble!


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## Dissident (2 Dec 2010)

I need a little more details from the OP.

We have had, in my reserve platoon, members who have joined and immediately started to publicly identify themselves as MPs to peers and friends. Imagine sitting in a crim class and having some below average guy spouting off:"In my experience/job as an MP..." All the while the guy barely got sworn in. Once we hear about this, they get some counseling. Mind you, recruits are warned at the start that if they wanted to talk about it they are supposed to refer to themselves as recruits in an MP unit. Some people are slow learners.

To be fair, I do love being a reserve MP and I am proud of it. Since a lot of people somehow get the idea that I am either military or LEO (dunno, must be the haircut or something  ) it does come up quite a bit. I love doing PR and selling people on the CF and the job. If I can steer someone into a rewarding part or full time occupation in the CF, it makes me happy.

But yeah, when someones whole sense of self and belonging rest with their short time in the military, it usually is a sign of deeper social issues. We really need to be careful about who we recruit. Which makes the MPAC mandatory for the reserves to stay in a real fucking good idea in my not so humble opinion. Some people can make a great contribution to Canada, just not wearing the red beret.

So, to wrap this up: Tell your acquaintance to cease and desist, for his own good. If he does not, feel free to send me a private message with his name and general location and I will make sure someone has a more direct conversation with him. Nothing career ending, just some mentoring. 

Regards,


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