# In need of some clarification regarding PT standards



## Manticure (14 Sep 2009)

I am applying for Regular Forces (specifically Aerospace or Navy Electronic technician), and I've done aptitude test and medical last week. Now I am not sure when exactly fitness test happens? Is it after or before the interview?
Also, what happens if I fail the fitness test? Will I be able to retake it?
Also, I know that minimum hand grip requirement is 75kg. But I am not sure of a way I can make sure I meet that requirement. So how can I check for sure that I can do that 75 kg test?
Another question: I know that another minimum requirement is completing 6th stage of  20MSR, but what is the 6th stage exactly?
Finally how is your step test performance measured? Do they measure your pulse after the test or how does it work?
I know that's a lot of questions, but they are all ambiguities that I couldn't find answers for anywhere. I'd appreciate any help.


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## aesop081 (14 Sep 2009)

If only there was a website where these questions have been answered and people could read them..........

One can hope.


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## Jammer (14 Sep 2009)

Now that we've dispensed with the sarcasm...
The recruiting forum would be a good place to start. 
If you know you cannot meet the minimum standards now, train and strive to surpass them BEFORE you actually are tested.
If you cannot find the answers in a day or so let us know.


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## Manticure (14 Sep 2009)

Jammer said:
			
		

> Now that we've dispensed with the sarcasm...
> The recruiting forum would be a good place to start.
> If you know you cannot meet the minimum standards now, train and strive to surpass them BEFORE you actually are tested.
> If you cannot find the answers in a day or so let us know.


I searched for hand grip and it didn't return any results.
But yeah, that's what I am trying to do, to surpass the standards before I get tested, but I couldn't find answers to my questions anywhere. And the purpose of forums is for people to ask questions for which they couldn't find answers for. And if you already know where the answer is, how hard can it be to refer to it?


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## PMedMoe (14 Sep 2009)

Since you are going Reg F, your fitness test will not be until you get to BMQ.

Check this thread for info and other links.
_
Once the search function is back up and running_, you can try searching in the Basic Training and/or Fitness sub fourms.  Try entering "fitness test" or "ExPres test".

Mods, would it be possible to get the thread I have linked here made into a sticky?


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## Manticure (14 Sep 2009)

Can someone please tell me, what happens if I go to the basic training and I fail to meet the initial fitness requirements? Do the send me on some training program to strive to meet the requirements? Do they send me back home? Will I be able to reapply and after how long?


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## George Wallace (14 Sep 2009)

Manticure said:
			
		

> Can someone please tell me, what happens if I go to the basic training and I fail to meet the initial fitness requirements? Do the send me on some training program to strive to meet the requirements? Do they send me back home? Will I be able to reapply and after how long?



PMedMoe was kind enough to give you a link to one of the topics that discribes what you will do for a PT Test, when the Test is conducted, and what happens if you fail the Test.  Right now you have failed one test, that of paying attention to advice given you.  I would advise you don't do that when you finally get enrolled into the CF and go to BMQ.

If you fail the PT Test, as stated in that link, you get put into RFT or some similarly named training (Someone in Ottawa has the job of changing the names of things annually).  That means you are no longer on BMQ, and no longer in the stream of candidates to go onto your Trades Training.  Instead you will be put onto a Physical Fitness Training program whereby you will be tested regularly to determine if you are fit enough to stay in the CF.  If after a period of time, you can not pass the PT Test, and join a BMQ Crse, you are Released from the CF.

Does that answer your question?


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## kratz (14 Sep 2009)

Effecitive Spring 2009 - If you do not meet the minimum fitness standard one of two results will occur:

- If you can not do half the sit-ups and half the sit-ups required you will be released from the CF.
- If you can can do the above but do not the fitness test you will be set to RFT for up to three months to allow for you to train with the goal of passing the fitness test during that time.

PSP Fitness Training.


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## Roy Harding (14 Sep 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> Mods, would it be possible to get the thread I have linked here made into a sticky?



Done deal.  Good idea.


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## Manticure (14 Sep 2009)

Thanks that explains it well. I am sure I can do at least 10 push ups and sit ups, but I definitely need to prepare more for the aerobical part of it but good thing I still have lots of time since I havent even done the interview yet. Thanks again


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## Lavitz (14 Sep 2009)

For those wondering, the "fitness platoon" where you get put if you fail the PT test is called The Warrior Preparation Company, and you get to retake the test after 30, 60, and 90 days. After the third attempt at 90 days (and you fail) you get released from the CF.


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## Manticure (14 Sep 2009)

Well I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't be able to make it after 3 months in addition to any prior self training and preparation. But I am wondering, does getting released from CF, mean that you will never be able to join the forces in your life even if you reapply?


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## Jammer (14 Sep 2009)

No.
Just take the advice given to you and stop postulating if you are serious.


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## brandon_ (14 Sep 2009)

The 6th stage ?  Last week when i  put my application into the reserve unit here they told me i only had to get to level 3 ?  either way, i can manage level 5 to 6 at minium.


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## aesop081 (14 Sep 2009)

brandon_ said:
			
		

> The 6th stage ?  Last week when i  put my application into the reserve unit here they told me i only had to get to level 3 ?  either way, i can manage level 5 to 6 at minium.



Level 6 for males under 35 years old in order to pass.


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## brandon_ (15 Sep 2009)

ah thank you CDN aviator. Glad you clarifyed (sp?) that up.  
Better get running.


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## kempogirl (27 Sep 2009)

Hey Guys 

 I noticed that there is alot of people wondering about the express test , well I just want to let you guys know I along with many others got sent home because of the test especially the push-ups if you fail that part you will get sent home . I know for girls its only two and it may seem like a easy task but the staff are very paticular on how you do them , if its not the way they want then they will not count them . I am not disrespecting anyone on their level of fitness , but there were people there who to me did really good push ups however when it came time for the test , only half were counted . Make shure you when you do them there is not a single arch in your back or your let your hand slip and go as low as you can . I have every intention of reapplying when I am in shape its was a learning experience for me , I really do hope that everyone makes it . I met some aswome people there and I cant wait to go back .


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## mariomike (27 Sep 2009)

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you get to go back and pass BMQ!


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## kratz (28 Sep 2009)

I heard how many were sent home from the Sept 8th and 22nd BMQ courses. I would like to say the numbers are suprising, but they are not.

Good luck on your next attempt kempogirl.


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## brandon_ (28 Sep 2009)

kempogirl said:
			
		

> ...for girls its only two ...


No disrespect or anything, but there was ONLY 2 you had to do and didn't manage that much?  edited too add: non the less good luck on you're next attempt.


			
				kratz said:
			
		

> I heard how many were sent home from the Sept 8th and 22nd BMQ courses. I would like to say the numbers are suprising, but they are not.
> 
> Good luck on your next attempt kempogirl.


I Think alot of the funds to send people home and  too basic could be reduced and spent better if the PT test where conducted at the cfrc (like reserves) before being shipped out.


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## PMedMoe (28 Sep 2009)

brandon_ said:
			
		

> No disrespect or anything, but there was ONLY 2 you had to do and didn't manage that much?



Depending on how picky the PSP staff is, you could do 20 and they would only count one.



			
				brandon_ said:
			
		

> I Think alot of the funds to send people home and  too basic could be reduced and spent better if the PT test where conducted at the cfrc (like reserves) before being shipped out.



Yep, there's loads of comments like that in various threads regarding the fitness test.


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## brandon_ (28 Sep 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Depending on how picky the PSP staff is, you could do 20 and they would only count one.



WOW in that case im preety F*cked; i can manage to do 20 no problem but i guess most of them as iffy... ugh better get working on them some more (pt is sometime next month for me)


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Sep 2009)

EVERYTHING here has been covered ad nauseum and we are not going to rehash it yet again.

IF you don't know how to search, or can't seem to figure it out by reading the guidelines, like you agreed to, contact a Mentor for help.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Strum (2 Oct 2009)

Hello,

Before you say it, I've read every sticky and I've searched for countless threads. I'm aware of the information - my problem is that I've found too much and I need some clarification.

Reading page 8 of the physical fitness PDF on the Army's website is where it confuses me.

It states: _During week one of Basic Training, you will undergo a physical fitness evaluation. Successful completion of the evaluation is necessary in continuing Basic Training._

Under which it states the "Performance Objectives," which for myself (male under 35) are as follows:

- 19 Push-ups
- 19 sit-ups
- 75 Hand-grip
- Shuttle Run 6.0

Beside this, it has the following: _For those under 35: You will undergo the CF Expres Fitness test and should you meet the minimums listed in the physical fitness guide you will continue with Basic Training. Candidates who do not meet the CF EXPRES standards but who achieve the threshold fitness standards will proceed to The Warrior Preparation Company._

Under which it states:

20M Shuttle Run - level                         Push Ups - level

Male - 3.5                                                       Male - 4

So, my question(s) are as follows:

- What exactly is meant by "Stage 6.0" for the shuttle run
- What is the difference between the two standards posted, and for the second what is ment by the level's 3.5 and 4 (for the run and push-ups respectively).


Thank-you in advance!


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## Nfld Sapper (2 Oct 2009)

Means you should achieve the higher standards but if you don't and at least meet the second you may continue with the Canadian Forces. If you get less then you will be released.


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## Eye In The Sky (2 Oct 2009)

Hopefully this helps to clarify.

- you will do the EXPRES test during Week 0 of BMQ.
- the standards for a "pass" you have already identified.
- IF you don't meet the "pass" levels and get a Pass, then you MUST meet the other minimums (lev 3.5 on the shuttle run) and do alteast 4 pushups to go into the Warrior Prep Company.  If you don't even meet those (VERY minimal) levels, you will be released from the CF.

If you search on here, you should find where you can download the actual shuttle run (.wav file etc).  Basically, each "level" of the 20 meter shuttle run (20MSR) is about 1 minute long.  The refer to them as "stage X" during the 20MSR.  As you being a new stage, the pace quickens.  You are running between to lines, back and forth, back and forth, during each stage.  

So Lev/Stage 6 is about 6 minutes into the running back and forth thing known as the 20MSR.

Hope that helps.


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## Strum (2 Oct 2009)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Hopefully this helps to clarify.
> 
> - you will do the EXPRES test during Week 0 of BMQ.
> - the standards for a "pass" you have already identified.
> ...



Crystal clear! Thank-you very much!

On a side note, I'm also reading conflicting posts about when the fitness tests are. As you've just mentioned there is one during week 0 of BMQ (as well as other during your time there), however, I am also reading that there is one during the application process.

Would the same standards apply or are you not tested on your fitness until BMQ?

While I've got the post going, might as well ask here as well: Are you paid* right from the onset of BMQ (and subsequently The Warrior Prep Company should you have to go that route?). Like I've said, I certainly going to strive for more than 19 push-ups (running and sit ups I have no problem with) but unfortunately upper body strength has always been my weakness.

_*paid - The official website states an anual salary of $30,000. Would this apply should I have to attend TWPC?_


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## PMedMoe (3 Oct 2009)

Strum said:
			
		

> Crystal clear! Thank-you very much!
> 
> On a side note, I'm also reading conflicting posts about when the fitness tests are. As you've just mentioned there is one during week 0 of BMQ (as well as other during your time there), however, I am also reading that there is one during the application process.
> 
> Would the same standards apply or are you not tested on your fitness until BMQ?



Depends on if you are reserve or regular force.  The reserves do their test as part of their enrollment process and do not have a Warrior Prep Co, so they have to meet the higher standard.  Reg force does the ExPres test at BMQ.



			
				Strum said:
			
		

> While I've got the post going, might as well ask here as well: Are you paid* right from the onset of BMQ (and subsequently The Warrior Prep Company should you have to go that route?).



Yes.


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## Strum (3 Oct 2009)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Depends on if you are reserve or regular force.  The reserves do their test as part of their enrollment process and do not have a Warrior Prep Co, so they have to meet the higher standard.  Reg force does the ExPres test at BMQ.
> 
> Yes.



Thank-you very much. Answers all my questions!


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## Manticure (5 May 2010)

If you don't meet the fitness test requirements but meet the threshold level and you have to go to the warrior prep program, how does that affect your BMQ? I mean are you gonna have to wait for the next BMQ course? Because it seems like they fill up BMQs several months in advance..
PS: my BMQ will be in Borden


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## PMedMoe (5 May 2010)

I'm sure it's been covered here but I bet you have to wait for an open position.

Wow, you've been worried about this since Sep last year.  

When does the fitness test happen and what happens if you fail it?

I know you're sort of asking a different question here, but just go in with the attitude that you *are* going to pass the fitness test.  Cross bridges when you come to them and all that stuff.


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## McD (5 May 2010)

You live in Vancouver? Basic is in September? Why not quit worrying about how you are going to or how you can or how you will fail the physical tests and ACTUALLY GET UP AND WORK FOR IT. Go run Grouse Mountain.

There are alot of people, who *deserve* a chance for a career with the Canadian Forces. And have been/will prepare accordingly. I am not saying you don't deserve anything (Congrats are in order in fact), or haven't worked hard to date, but think about that. 

What I am saying is you have been given a *F'ing GOLDEN OPPORTNITY* that I would gladly take from you if you don't want it, as would so many others. Think of what this really is. Also think of everyone who has been preparing and feels 100% good to go when they see someone prepare for failure like you have. Its sad and unbecoming. I dont know you but everyone can do better than that. 

PMedMoe is correct. She hit on this before with a post of yours - that you're setting up for failure and you have been since September. 

Get working on it and you will be fine. Because right now you're doing nothing for yourself.


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## MedTechStudent (5 May 2010)

Manticure said:
			
		

> If you don't meet the fitness test requirements but meet the threshold level and you have to go to the warrior prep program, how does that affect your BMQ? I mean are you gonna have to wait for the next BMQ course? Because it seems like they fill up BMQs several months in advance..
> PS: my BMQ will be in Borden



First of all, and like the others said, stop typing and go run.

Second, and more importantly...calling that whole process "warrior fitness...something or other" is totally lame and makes it sound like some cool gladiator training camp opposed to a military fat camp.

Third, and *most* importantly, is I believe they have removed the entire process as of a couple months ago.  I could be wrong here, but a couple people I know who failed the first Express Test were sent home for a set number of months to build up their fitness.  If thats the case, *sweet* more money for the army!  Nice new shiny rain coats for all!!

Just throwing it out there.  Now seriously stop reading this go feel the burn...


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## SeanNewman (5 May 2010)

McD said:
			
		

> ACTUALLY GET UP AND WORK FOR IT.



I could not agree with that statement more.  Stop worrying about passing and get fit on your own time before expecting a safety net and free pay to get fit on the Queen's money.

A little less Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and a little more running around the block.


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## DexOlesa (5 May 2010)

I head to RMC in August for First Year Orientation period. I'm in horrible shape right now. But I am working out everyday and over the last month have lost 10 lbs. Again stop worrying and start working out. The CF express is not THAT hard, After just a month of working out I can pass the strength requirements easily and am still a ways away from the beep test but i still have may-july.


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## Manticure (5 May 2010)

I am not setting up for a failure at all, I've been preparing for basic training ever since last September or so, although sometimes I don't go on runs for weeks because of bad weather or being too exhausted from work.
Even though I can do level 5 of shuttle run test now which is much higher than I could when I first started running, I am still not even close at doing 2.4km in 11 mins.
And I can't discount the possibility that even after all the preparation for it and the right attitude, I might still fail because of my aerobic fitness. Because I've always been one of the worst runners in high school, it's always been one of my biggest problems.

I also realize that preparing for the fitness test is more than just running as long as possible and as much as possible. I tried that and eventually running too much made my legs hurt every time I was running. So I had to stop running for a few weeks. 
Don't get me wrong, military is gonna be my lifetime career and I am doing everything possible to do my best at it. All I am saying is that preparing for fitness test is not just running as much as possible everyday. If it was that simple I wouldn't have even a slightest doubt about passing it.


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## zipperhead_cop (6 May 2010)

Manticure said:
			
		

> I am not setting up for a failure at all, I've been preparing for basic training ever since last September or so, although sometimes I don't go on runs for weeks because of bad weather  or being too exhausted  from work.



Wow.  Are you ever in for a stunning rude awakening.  There is more to this than a chipper "Can Do!!" attitude.  



			
				Manticure said:
			
		

> And I can't discount the possibility that even after all the preparation for it and the right attitude, I might still fail because of my aerobic fitness. Because I've always been one of the worst runners in high school, it's always been one of my biggest problems.



Perhaps you had the worst quitters attitude in highschool?  Fitness isn't genetic.  



			
				Manticure said:
			
		

> I also realize that preparing for the fitness test is more than just running as long as possible and as much as possible. I tried that and eventually running too much made my legs hurt every time I was running. So I had to stop running for a few weeks.



I will consider that you perhaps have a terrible running technique or bad shoes.  However, this just sounds like a lame excuse.  



			
				Manticure said:
			
		

> Don't get me wrong, military is gonna be my lifetime career and I am doing everything possible to do my best at it. All I am saying is that preparing for fitness test is not just running as much as possible everyday. If it was that simple I wouldn't have even a slightest doubt about passing it.



Don't get me wrong.  I hope you end up being successful.  But you've had half a year to get into the most_ minimal standard _ of physical fitness.  You need to get on to a proper trainer and get a grip.  If you are giving 100% to make the _minimum_ standard, you are going to be crushed once you are on basic.  Don't show up if you can't do the job.  All you will do is hold back your course mates and make them resent you.  

Stop making excuses for a lack of performance and become frightened at the idea that you will be rejected by the CF for being unsatisfactory.  Perhaps that will create a way for you to find the motivation that will get you moving.


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## 2010newbie (6 May 2010)

Manticure said:
			
		

> I also realize that preparing for the fitness test is more than just running as long as possible and as much as possible. I tried that and eventually running too much made my legs hurt every time I was running. So I had to stop running for a few weeks.


I'm not a trainer, doctor, nor a fitness expert, but I found these helpful (most found here on this site). Like everyone else has said - get out there and do it.

http://hundredpushups.com/index.html

http://www.twohundredsitups.com/index.html

The speed in the running schedule is a little slow. Once you finish week 9 (or sooner) you can speed it up to obtain the 2.4 km in approx 10 mins target. You could do the push-ups/sit-ups on one day, run the next, and on the seventh day rest do the CF Express test to track your progress. The gradual increase in the running schedule should build up your legs slowly and prevent injury. Again, I'm no expert; I just found this helpful for me to follow in the beginning.


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## Kprice (29 May 2010)

i was wondering if you fail the express test and go to the warrior company do you still get paid for that while your in it?


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