# Report of the SC on National Defence: "Canada and the Defence of North America"



## McG (20 Sep 2016)

News media coverage of the 19 September Standing Committee on National Defence report is focused on accusations that the government rigged the report to justify a sole-source contract for Super Hornets.  But for a more informed opinion, one could read the report itself at:  http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/Committee/421/NDDN/Reports/RP8406082/421_NDDN_Rpt02_PDF/421_NDDN_Rpt02-e.pdf

... and see the thirteen recommendations:


> Recommendation 1
> That the Government of Canada conduct a thorough review of
> Canada’s international and domestic capability requirements for the
> replacement of the CF-18 fighter jets; that the Government select a
> ...


There is certainly something funny about the first three recommendations.

Recommendations 5, 6, 7, and 8 all seem pretty good to me.  We should be examining the threats of ballistic and cruise missile threats, and we should be deciding how we want to defend against these.

Recommendation 11 is schizophrenic. Is it about climate change or Russian threats?  Do we think it is the same resource that addresses either?  Do we need a fleet of combat science vessels for the north?


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## Good2Golf (20 Sep 2016)

Don't see a sole-source jusrification for SH in that.. :dunno:

G2G


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## The Bread Guy (20 Sep 2016)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Don't see a sole-source jusrification for SH in that.. :dunno:
> 
> G2G


Unless the opposition is reading the 12-month recommendation for a decision in #3 as a defacto "can't do it any other way"?


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## dapaterson (20 Sep 2016)

Pilot safety is a code word for twin engines. In part that is how we got the CF18 to begin with - in trying to stack the deck against the F16, to get the preferred COA of the F15, that requirement was part of the RFP.


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## Spencer100 (20 Sep 2016)

Number 4 is the kicker.  Canada does not have boom refueling at this time.  The F-45A is boom refueled. I know the F-35C is but that is not the model we are looking at.


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## jollyjacktar (20 Sep 2016)

Nothing about the need to invest in defence at the levels expected by our allies at 2% GDP, or any levels for that matter.


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## McG (21 Sep 2016)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Nothing about the need to invest in defence at the levels expected by our allies at 2% GDP, or any levels for that matter.


Both the current and previous governments have made the argument that Canada's contribution to NATO should not be measured by 1% or 2% but by the quality and capability of the contributions we make.  There is some merit to that argument, but:



> [The SC recommends] that the CF-18 replacement ... Have well defined capital and sustainment costs as to not jeopardize the recapitalization of other much-needed military equipment.


What we are saying internally is that we need to trade-off capability to stay around 1%.  These positions, while maybe not mutually exclusive, are strongly working against each other.


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## Kirkhill (21 Sep 2016)

With the air to air refuelling bit Boeing could justify a twofer.

Buy 60 SuperHornets. Get two tankers free.


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## PuckChaser (21 Sep 2016)

What quality and capacities do we provide when our Army doesn't have boots, and our Navy is running out of serviceable ships?

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk


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## kratz (22 Sep 2016)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> What quality and capacities do we provide when our Army doesn't have boots, and our Navy is running out of *serviceable ships?
> *
> Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk



The RCN just celebrated the 20th anniversary of the MCVD hulls, so we should get another 15 years out of them.  [


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## MarkOttawa (14 Nov 2016)

Conclusion of presentation to Senate Standing Committee on National Security and Defence by CGAI Senior Analyst Dave Perry (note links at end):



> Canada and Missile Defence plus Russian Cruise Missile Threat
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/11/14/mark-collins-canada-and-missile-defence-plus-russian-cruise-missile-threat/



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (31 May 2017)

Lots on NORAD and growing, scary Russian cruise missile threat (ALCMs and SLCMs):



> Beyond NORAD and Modernization to North American Defence Evolution
> http://www.cgai.ca/beyond_norad_and_modernization_to_north_american_defence_evolution



Very relevant, note links at end:



> NORAD and Russian Cruise Nukes: “de-escalation”? Part 2
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/06/30/mark-collins-norad-and-russian-cruise-nukes-de-escalation-part-2/



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (28 Aug 2018)

NORAD commander warns of growing threats to North America--when will our gov't do something serious about NORAD?  E.g. upgrading North Warning System, missile defence, Arctic FOLs (not to mention new fighter, note new F-16 radar and cruise missiles):



> ‘The homeland is no longer a sanctuary’ amid rising near-peer threats, NORTHCOM commander says
> 
> The U.S. “homeland is no longer a sanctuary,” according to the four-star general in charge of both U.S. Northern Command and North American Aerospace Defense Command.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (12 Feb 2019)

Important, excellent paper (note attention to air and naval command structures):


> NORAD: Beyond Modernization
> Andrea Charron, PhD
> Jim Fergusson, PhD
> Centre for Defence and Security StudiesUniversity of Manitoba
> ...



Now note this regarding command structure from recent CANFORGEN:

Gen Vance announces CAF General and Flag Officer senior appointments, promotions, and retirements for 2019



> ...
> MAJOR-GENERAL D.W. JOYCE WILL BE APPOINTED DEPUTY COMMANDER CONTINENTAL US NORAD REGION, IN TYNDALL FLORIDA...
> 
> COMMODORE S.M. WADDELL WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE RANK OF REAR-ADMIRAL AND APPOINTED TO A NEW POSITION AS VICE COMMANDER 2ND FLEET UNITED STATES NAVY, IN NORFOLK VIRGINIA
> https://vanguardcanada.com/2019/02/12/gen-vance-announces-caf-general-and-flag-officer-senior-appointments-promotions-and-retirements-for-2019/



2nd Fleet putting big emphasis on Russkie sub/cruise missile threat from North Atlantic, noted in paper above. Hence a focus on ASW (e.g. new FFG(X) frigate program) that probably should be RCN priority as in Cold War.



> Report to Congress on U.S. Navy Frigate (FFG(X)) Program
> https://news.usni.org/2019/02/05/report-congress-u-s-navy-frigate-ffgx-program-5



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (8 Aug 2019)

NORAD update well in works--how much will next Canadian gov't be willing to pay for?



> Canadian, U.S. military leaders agree on framework to retool Norad
> _Defence command deal comes as new threats emerge from ballistic and advanced cruise missiles_
> 
> Military leaders from the U.S. and Canada have come to an agreement on the nuts and bolts retooling of Norad, CBC News has learned.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## The Bread Guy (10 Aug 2019)

The DND info-machine version ...


> “Strong, Secure, Engaged: Canada's Defence Policy, clearly sets out our country's commitment to be strong at home and secure in North America.
> 
> “The Department of National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces play an important role in projecting Canada's worldwide engagement, while working with allies to address common security challenges.
> 
> ...


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## Edward Campbell (10 Aug 2019)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> The DND info-machine version ...




In other words: Please, please don't ask us anything until after the election ... the Minister hasn't been given any lines from the PMO/campaign team to recite and the CDS and DM, very properly, are staying silent. Nameless, faceless people continue to beaver away, out of sight, out of mind.


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## The Bread Guy (10 Aug 2019)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> In other words: Please, please don't ask us anything until after the election ... the Minister hasn't been given any lines from the PMO/campaign team to recite and the CDS and DM, very properly, are staying silent. Nameless, faceless people continue to beaver away, out of sight, out of mind.


AKA "Ted's Notes"


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## Journeyman (11 Aug 2019)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> AKA "Ted's Notes"


I know I'm a fan.   :nod:


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## MarkOttawa (10 Sep 2019)

Meanwhile MITRE Corp. says Boeing/Saab T-X trainer could be used as light fighter for USAF's CONUS NORAD mission:



> MITRE study recommends US Air Force procure armed F/T-X aircraft
> 
> Key Points
> 
> ...



More:



> Report says Boeing/Saab T-X trainer would make an ideal light fighter
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And see these:



> US Air Force’s new trainer jet could become its next light-attack or aggressor aircraft
> https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/afa-air-space/2019/03/06/air-forces-new-trainer-jet-could-become-its-next-light-attack-or-aggressor-aircraft/
> 
> Boeing touts light attack, Aggressor potential for T-X trainer [foreign sales too]
> https://www.janes.com/article/88554/boeing-touts-light-attack-aggressor-potential-for-t-x-trainer



Mark
Ottawa


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## Good2Golf (10 Sep 2019)

“All right you four Canadian future fighter contenders, anyone who seriously doesn’t believe they can still sell us something that goes fast, leave the room!”

*lockheed stays sitting, but Airbus, Boeing and Saab get up, and dejectedly head for the door...*

“Airbus, see you later.  Thanks for coming out.  Hey! Boeing! Saab! Where are you guys going?”

;D


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## MarkOttawa (18 Sep 2019)

Will next Canadian gov't be willing to pay up for modernization of North Warning System, in face of growing cruise missiles threat? If not US, not just Trump, will be most dissatisfied. Good analysis from Andrea Charron and James Fergusson of University of Manitoba:


> Rediscovering the Cost of Deterrence
> ...
> The Canada-U.S. Permanent Joint Board on Defence (PJBD) held its 238th meeting in Ottawa this June. Established in 1940, the PJBD1 was created to provide study and recommendations to the governments of both Canada and the United States for the joint defence of “the north half of the Western hemisphere”.  Of late, there has been more discussion than recommendations.  The civilian co-chairs (currently, Canadian MP John McKay and retired U.S. Lt.-Gen. Chris Miller) and the other members are grappling with increasing geopolitical tension and great power competition. They are rediscovering the importance of deterrence and of defending North America – not unlike the original co-chairs in 1940 or, 40 years later, their fellow co-chairs during the Cold War. Now, as was the case in the 1980s, is the time to reinvest in the defence of Canada and the United States even though competing priorities and elections make it particularly difficult.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (14 Nov 2019)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Important, excellent paper (note attention to air and naval command structures):
> Now note this regarding command structure from recent CANFORGEN:
> 
> Gen Vance announces CAF General and Flag Officer senior appointments, promotions, and retirements for 2019
> ...



Now from USN PR, note Arctic, North Atlantic (Russkie subs with cruise missiles):



> Royal Canadian Navy Plays A Key Role In 2nd Fleet Mission
> 
> In the cavernous three-story Maritime Operations Center, amidst a sea of television monitors and projection screens, a mass of uniforms gathers huddled around a cluster of desks. Interspersed throughout the crowd of mostly U.S. Navy uniforms are a smattering of Marines and a few livelier uniforms from France, the U.K, and Norway.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## daftandbarmy (14 Nov 2019)

We need to send him a Duty Piper


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## MilEME09 (15 Nov 2019)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> We need to send him a Duty Piper



I wonder what it must feel like to suddenly  be 2IC of a fleet larger then the entire RCN?


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## FSTO (15 Nov 2019)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> I wonder what it must feel like to suddenly  be 2IC of a fleet larger then the entire RCN?



Go ask the plethora of Canadian Army generals who have been 2IC of several US Army formations.


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## Spencer100 (15 Nov 2019)

Larger than most navies in the whole world.  What an experience! Good luck!


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## 211RadOp (15 Nov 2019)

Looking through the CMP page, there are currently 8 General/Flag Officers serving in DComd roles with US Forces.  The page may not be 100% accurate as it still has RAdm Waddell serving in Ottawa (I have included him in my count though).


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## MarkOttawa (21 Nov 2019)

What might happen if Justin Trudeau's gov't fails to get serious about NORAD, at CGAI:



> NORAD: Remaining Relevant
> ...
> *Executive Summary*
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Cloud Cover (21 Nov 2019)

NORAD and NATO are defence on the cheap. They won’t go so far as to jeopardize it, but the effort will straddle the line between absolute minimum and not showing up. And they will get away with it.


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## MarkOttawa (21 Nov 2019)

Cloud Cover said:
			
		

> NORAD and NATO are defence on the cheap. They won’t go so far as to jeopardize it, but the effort will straddle the line between absolute minimum and not showing up. And they will get away with it.



But the point of Michael Dawson's paper (disclosure: a personal friend) is how much longer will the US (not just Trump) let us "get away with it" in NORAD? Crunch may be coming with demands for USAF bases, radars etc on Canadian territory if they decide not to accept our "line between absolute minimum and not showing up".

Mark
Ottawa


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## Journeyman (21 Nov 2019)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> What might happen if Justin Trudeau's gov't fails to get serious about NORAD....*and* Security/Defence writ large


I think that the MND remaining unchanged shows 4'ish more years of the same -- PMO doesn't care.


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## Cloud Cover (21 Nov 2019)

Ok. Name something that is realistic and highly likely (but not certain) to happen to Canada that would give the PMO any reason at all to care.


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## dapaterson (21 Nov 2019)

Cloud Cover said:
			
		

> Ok. Name something that is realistic and highly likely (but not certain) to happen to Canada that would give the PMO any reason at all to care.


Relationship with our largest trading partner.

Two percent of GDP isn't much to preserve our relationship...


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## Oldgateboatdriver (22 Nov 2019)

Two percent of GDP isn't much to preserve our ... independence.


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## Czech_pivo (22 Nov 2019)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Two percent of GDP isn't much to preserve our ... independence.



Its hard for us to break our old Colonial way of thinking.....


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## The Bread Guy (22 Nov 2019)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Two percent of GDP isn't much to preserve our relationship...


... unless there's other, cheaper ways to appease.


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## QV (22 Nov 2019)

Cloud Cover said:
			
		

> Ok. Name something that is realistic and highly likely (but not certain) to happen to Canada that would give the PMO any reason at all to care.



Russia grabbing more control of territory in the north?  Not sure that is "highly likely", but they've been building their arctic capability... and, correct me if I'm wrong, there is some dispute on who owns/controls what up there.


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## Spencer100 (22 Nov 2019)

A NORK ballistic missile test landing north west of BC in the northern pacific?  May not be too likely as it would sent the US off in a real bad way.  

Major Terrorist attack in Canadian (I really hope not) It would have to be one that can not be "a lone wolf" or an internal person or people.  Would have to be foreign. 

An NBC event?


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## daftandbarmy (22 Nov 2019)

Cloud Cover said:
			
		

> Ok. Name something that is realistic and highly likely (but not certain) to happen to Canada that would give the PMO any reason at all to care.



The Polar 'Silk Road', perhaps, with all the attendant opportunities for nefarious skulduggery? 

"Chinese shipping company COSCO will continue its increase transit shipments on the Northern Sea Route, through the waters of the Russian Arctic.

“Our development strategy is to serve the Polar Silk Road and international trade between the North Atlantic region and the Far East,” Chen Feng, the head of COSCO’s marketing and sales division, said during a conference in Shanghai. “It is smooth and quick.”

Chen declined to specify the number of voyages COSCO was planning this year, stating there would only be “several of them,” both eastbound and westbound. Much depends on weather and ice conditions, as well as demand, he said in a speech delivered at the Arctic Circle China Forum."

https://www.arctictoday.com/chinas-cosco-to-stay-course-on-arctic-shipping/


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## MarkOttawa (24 Nov 2019)

US patience definitely fraying--and what about endless RCAF fighter dithering, and what bucks for NORAD upgrading?



> U.S. sent ‘blunt’ letter to Canada criticizing defence spending: sources
> 
> Canada has been officially called out by the United States over how much it spends on the military, Global News has learned.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Cloud Cover (25 Nov 2019)

Good luck with that....


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## Navy_Pete (25 Nov 2019)

So if our GDP is $1.6 trillion, anyone have any idea how we could actually spend $32 billion a year?  Even if you lumped in the capitol projects, we simply don't have the infrastructure in place to expand our forces that much without a significant expansion, at a time when we can't recruit enough to keep up with normal retention losses. That's not a quick fix, and would need a planned 10 year+ effort.  The GoC could give DND that much tomorrow, but we simply could not spend it. There isn't enough capacity in the purchasing side, and the bureaucracy adds years of lead time to any big ticket project (unless there is a war on, but then other ongoing work gets pushed to the backburner due to lack of capacity).

If there is another world war, it's already too late, and we simply don't have the manufacturing capacity anymore to ramp up like in WWI or WWII, given the global nature of the high tech equipment supply chain.

I can't see this happening; think the closest we'll get is some fancy accounting that lumps in portions of the CCG, and gets pretty loose and fast with how they count the spending on large capitol projects like the NSS.


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## MARS (25 Nov 2019)

Cloud Cover said:
			
		

> Ok. Name something that is realistic and highly likely (but not certain) to happen to Canada that would give the PMO any reason at all to care.



More tariffs imposed by the US...


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## Dale Denton (25 Nov 2019)

We won't do anything, Canada already hates the US even more with 45, less likely to want to bend to his pressure or any pressure from the US. How did we react to the first tariffs?

They (USA) should impose tariffs that would bridge the gap between what we actually pay (before lumping in Veterans and RCMP, plus whatever Air Canada's gas bill is...) and 2% of our GDP. They'd call it a defence 'protection' tariff. 

Pays for their protection which US citizens partially pay for ours already + we're incentivised to put up 2% GDP. Hell, do it NATO-wide to whoever else seems as reluctant as us.


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## daftandbarmy (25 Nov 2019)

MARS said:
			
		

> More tariffs imposed by the US...



Exactly. Trump's using the tariffs to help disrupt the supply chains that outsource to other countries, and realign them to internal to US sources. Canada and Mexico are the closest, and most obvious, targets.


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## MarkOttawa (27 Nov 2019)

And how much will US want us to spend on upgrading North Warning System--and how much will Trudeau gov't be willing to spend and when?



> NORTHCOM commander says US needs Arctic early warning system
> 
> The top general for U.S. Northern Command says the U.S. needs to invest in an early warning system for the Arctic similar to the series of radar stations built in 1957 that became known as the Distant Early Warning Line, or DEW line.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## SeaKingTacco (27 Nov 2019)

Our current government could actually spin this to their advantage:

In the name of getting new northern infrastructure and jobs for first nations up north, the Govt also get us closer to that 2% defence/GDP that the Americans would like to see out of us.


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## Czech_pivo (27 Nov 2019)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Exactly. Trump's using the tariffs to help disrupt the supply chains that outsource to other countries, and realign them to internal to US sources. Canada and Mexico are the closest, and most obvious, targets.



What is the US just decided to kick us out of NORAD, put  a bunch more stats over the North, increased nuc sub patrols in our waters, without telling us as we’d be hard pressed to know in the first place and then told us that they’d take down any threats directly over Canadian airspace with or without our approvals and, oh ya, seize the Alberta oil fields in a time of war to ensure that they didn’t fall into the wrong hands.

What could we really do other than cry to the worlds press and shout mea culpa mea culpa.


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## MarkOttawa (2 Dec 2019)

Now US going hard for lasers to kill cruise missiles--big problem for NORAD, ALCMs from Russkie bombers, SLCMs from subs in North Atlantic area:



> EXCLUSIVE Killing Cruise Missiles: Pentagon To Test Rival Lasers
> _DoD is finalizing contracts for three competing demonstrators, aiming for a 300-kilowatt weapon by 2022 and 500 kW by 2024, laser R&D director Thomas Karr told us._
> 
> The Army, Air Force, and Navy may be only three years away from a 300-kilowatt laser weapon, one powerful enough to shoot down cruise missiles — using the same basic technology as the checkout counter at your local supermarket.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (17 Dec 2019)

Vital capability for RCAF in NORAD vs Russkie ALCMs if we get F-35 (Hornets now?); also for USAF F-35s in lower forty eight with NORAD role vs both ALCMs and Russkie SLCMs from North Atlantic (would be nice if RCN's CSC had good capability vs cruise missiles:



> F-35 can identify and destroy cruise missiles - Lockheed Martin
> _AESA radar can intercept low-flying high-speed airborne threats_
> 
> Amid concerns that Iran may attack Israel with cruise missiles, a senior Lockheed Martin representative revealed on Tuesday that the stealth F-35 Adir fighter jet can detect and intercept such threats.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (23 Dec 2019)

Matthew Fisher on Canada and NORAD--will money be there for North Warning System upgrades, FOLs, maybe missile defence (and what about new tankers)?



> COMMENTARY: An opportunity to remember that NORAD tracks more than just Santa Claus
> 
> NORAD is once again using its use its high-powered radars to track Santa Claus’s circuitous journey from the North Pole to southern climes, with millions of chimney stops in Canada and the United States along the way.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (23 Dec 2019)

New way to deal with those increasingly more than pesky Russkie cruise missiles:



> Air Force Tests Laser Guided Rockets In The Air-To-Air Role To Shoot Down Cruise Missiles
> _A recent test was a proof of concept for using these air-to-ground weapons to knock down cruise missiles, but they could also take out small drones._
> 
> A U.S. Air Force F-16C Viper recently shot down a target drone using a laser-guided 70mm rocket typically used for air-to-ground strikes during a test. The service ostensibly conducted the experiment to determine the weapon's suitability for shooting down incoming cruise missiles, but it could also be useful for destroying small unmanned aircraft, including suicide drones.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (24 Dec 2019)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> What might happen if Justin Trudeau's gov't fails to get serious about NORAD, at CGAI:
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Good, looks like radar for new RCN frigates will have missile defence capability, and ships could deploy necessary missiles if a gov't decides to do so:



> Canada's new frigates could take part in ballistic missile defence - if Ottawa says yes
> _Defence expert says the frigates' design shows Ottawa is keeping 'the door open' to BMD_
> 
> Canada's new frigates are being designed with ballistic missile defence in mind, even though successive federal governments have avoided taking part in the U.S. program.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (30 Dec 2019)

Radarsat Constellation the key--one wonders how much government involvement behind the scenes was involved in this:


> Canadarm maker to be acquired by Canadian investors in $1B deal
> _MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates being sold to consortium led by Northern Private Capital_
> 
> A Toronto-based investment firm has signed a $1-billion deal to buy the Canadian space technology company behind Radarsat Earth-observation satellites and the Canadarm robotic mechanisms on the International Space Station.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (14 Jan 2020)

Time for Canada and its gov't to wake up and do something about NORAD/North Warning System--two excerpt (p. 4, 6 PDF) from major piece by Prof. James Fergusson of U. of Manitoba (colleague of Prof. Andea Charron):



> Missed Opportunities: Why Canada’s North Warning System is Overdue for an Overhaul
> ...
> Currently, one unofficial estimate places NWS modernization (or replacement) at roughly $11 billion, although it is unclear whether this estimate is in American or Canadian dollars. Assuming the latter, under the current cost-sharing arrangement (originally established with the NWS), Canada will be responsible for 40 percent (Canada 1985), or $4.4 billion (this does not include any infrastructure on US territory, which is entirely the responsibility of the US). Notwithstanding the likelihood that costs will significantly grow over time, for the US its share is not problematic, given the size of the American defence budget. For Canada, its share places a significant burden on Canadian defence spending, even if it is amortized over many years...
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (20 Jan 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Time for Canada and its gov't to wake up and do something about NORAD/North Warning System--two excerpt (p. 4, 6 PDF) from major piece by Prof. James Fergusson of U. of Manitoba (colleague of Prof. Andea Charron):
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Story based on above:



> Defence expert slams Ottawa for ignoring North Warning System upgrade
> _Federal government hasn’t budgeted for NWS modernization, professor says_
> 
> In a scathing article published on Jan. 14, James Fergusson, a defence expert, says the federal government is dodging the need to replace the aging North Warning System, which is near the end of its lifespan.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (30 Jan 2020)

Story on "Modernization of North American Defence", Jan. 29 conference in Ottawa by Canadian Global Affairs Institute:



> Senior officer warns Norad can't detect Russian bombers in time, needs upgrades
> 
> The aging early-warning system charged with detecting incoming threats to North America cannot identify and track long-range Russian bombers before they are close enough to launch missiles at the continent, according to a senior Canadian military officer.
> 
> ...



Plus program for the conference,
https://www.cgai.ca/modernization_of_north_american_defence

and video of the whole meeting:
https://www.pscp.tv/CAGlobalAffairs/1yNGaQapAdQGj

Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (30 Jan 2020)

Meanwhile Norways sending F-35As to Iceland for NATO air policing:



> Norway Will Solve Missions on Iceland with the Brand New F-35 Fighter Aircraft
> _"Participation has a high symbolic effect, both for Norway and the rest of NATO," says colonel Ståle Nymoen. _
> 
> Norway is now ready to solve missions both in Norway and abroad with the new fighter aircraft, the F-35, the Norwegian Armed Forces says in a press release.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Colin Parkinson (30 Jan 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Vital capability for RCAF in NORAD vs Russkie ALCMs if we get F-35 (Hornets now?); also for USAF F-35s in lower forty eight with NORAD role vs both ALCMs and Russkie SLCMs from North Atlantic (would be nice if RCN's CSC had good capability vs cruise missiles:
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



let me guess they fly alongside and then tip the wing?


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## MarkOttawa (31 Jan 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Story on "Modernization of North American Defence", Jan. 29 conference in Ottawa by Canadian Global Affairs Institute:
> 
> Plus program for the conference,
> https://www.cgai.ca/modernization_of_north_american_defence
> ...



Audio of first speaker at CGAI north american defence modernization conference noted at quote above, RCN commodore at NORAD:



> _The CGAI Podcast Network_
> Defence Deconstructed: Cmdre Jamie Clarke on “The Strategic Outlook and Threats to North America”
> https://soundcloud.com/user-609485369/defence-deconstructed-cmdre-jamie-clarke-on-the-strategic-outlook-and-threats-to-north-america



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (31 Jan 2020)

Now two Tu-160s in CADIZ:



> Two long-range Russian bombers buzzed Canadian airspace, NORAD says
> 
> Two long-range Russian bombers capable of carrying nuclear missiles buzzed Canadian airspace on Friday morning, the North American Aerospace Defence Command said, days after a senior military officer warned that North America’s early-warning system is outdated.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (13 Feb 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Now two Tu-160s in CADIZ:
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Shot across our North Warning System bows from NORAD commander:


> Canada, U.S. have lost military edge over Russia in the Arctic: Norad commander
> 
> The commander of North America’s aging early-warning system says the United States and Canada have lost their military advantage in the Arctic to Russia.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (13 Feb 2020)

Text of NORAD commander at Senate:
https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/OShaughnessy_02-13-20.pdf

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (3 Mar 2020)

From bottom of p. 8 and top p. 9 of 12-page statement--almost no mention of NORAD, no mention of RCAF, no mention of close cooperation with Canada in Arctic to defend vs Russia (even though on p. 1 first para: "China and Russia present real and growing threats to the national security of the United States and our allies") and no specific mention of North Warning System. Almost as if Canada irrelevant. Note F-15EX homeland security role:



> *United States Air Force Posture Statement
> Fiscal Year 2021
> United States Air Force Presentation to the Armed Services Committeeof the United States Senate
> 2nd Session, 116th Congress*
> ...


https://www.govexec.com/media/gbc/docs/pdfs_edit/secaf_barrett_cos_goldfein.pdf

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (5 Mar 2020)

Post based on what CDS Gen. Vance and NORAD Deputy Commander Lt.-Gen. Coates said Feb. 4 at CDAI's Ottawa Conference on Defence and Security:



> So Will the Canadian Government Put Some Big Bucks into Modernizing NORAD's North Warning System?
> https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/03/05/so-will-the-canadian-government-put-some-big-bucks-into-modernizing-norads-north-warning-system/



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (7 Mar 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Post based on what CDS Gen. Vance and NORAD Deputy Commander Lt.-Gen. Coates said Feb. 4 at CDAI's Ottawa Conference on Defence and Security:
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Piece in early January by the estimable Prof. Andrea Charron of Univ. of Manitoba (http://umanitoba.ca/centres/cdss/) on need to modernize/replace NORAD's North Warning System:



> Face to Face: Is the North Warning System obsolete?
> 
> Andrea Charron says "YES":
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (18 Jul 2020)

USAF joining the US military's Arctic party--pressure on Canada to do something soon and real about North Warning System? Defending against help?

Department of the Air Force to Debut Its First Arctic Strategy



> Air Force Secretary Barbara M. Barrett, Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein, and Chief of Space Operations Gen. John W. “Jay” Raymond will launch the Department of the Air Force’s first-ever Arctic Strategy on July 21 during a virtual event with the Atlantic Council.
> 
> Despite a long history of Arctic operations, USAF has never had its own strategy for operating in the region. The White House first released a National Strategy for the Arctic in 2013 under the Obama Administration, and the Department of Defense soon followed suit with its own Arctic Strategy. That strategy was updated in 2016 and then again in 2019.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (22 Jul 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> USAF joining the US military's Arctic party--pressure on Canada to do something soon and real about North Warning System? Defending against help?
> 
> Department of the Air Force to Debut Its First Arctic Strategy
> 
> ...



Dept. of Air Force, USAF and Space Force Arctic Strategy is out--I couldn't see any specific reference to modernizing the North Warning System or anything on need for Canada to make a substantial financial contribution thereto:



> New Air Force Arctic Strategy May Update Planes For Polar Ops
> _"Historically the Arctic, like space, was characterized as a predominantly peaceful domain," the Air Force Secretary Barbara Barrett said. "This is changing." _
> 
> As part of its new Arctic Strategy released today [July 21 https://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/2020SAF/July/ArcticStrategy.pdf], the Air Force is eyeing how to modernize mobility aircraft capable of polar operations, improve existing bases, and expand allied cooperation as it gears up to face increased challenges in the region from Russia and China — as well as the changing environment.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Cronicbny (22 Jul 2020)

Mark,

On Page Seven - it is a short liner note, but it is there. 

"The Department of the Air Force will enhance
its missile defense surveillance system in the
northern tier while continuing to work with
Canada to identify materiel and non-materiel
solutions to the North Warning System."

Materiel and non-materiel solutions = $$$$


----------



## MarkOttawa (22 Jul 2020)

IN ARDUA NITOR: Thanks--but a very soft mention indeed.

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (14 Aug 2020)

Tweet from NORAD--interesting that F-22s at Elmendorf, Alaska that have NORAD mission not mentioned--presumably F-15s are Air National Guard C/Ds from CONUS:
https://twitter.com/NORADCommand/status/1294318401154736130



> North American Aerospace Defense Command
> @NORADCommand
> 
> We will conduct an #Arctic air defense exercise ranging from the #BeaufortSea to #Greenland Aug. 17-21.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (7 Sep 2020)

I fear the estimable Prof. Charron is being over-optimistic that a true bi-national revolution in North American military affairs, coordinated over several fields, can be carried out--start of a major _piece at War on the Rocks_:



> Beyond the North Warning System
> 
> Aug. 18 marked the 80th anniversary of the Canadian-U.S. Permanent Joint Board on Defense. This binational board of experts provides advice to the prime minister and president on how best to defend North America. The pressing topic today is North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) modernization and the renewal of its aged radar sensors in the Arctic.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Spencer100 (11 Sep 2020)

WASHINGTON — The deputy director of operations and the former commander of North America's shared continental defence system are urging Canada and the United States to get serious about bringing Norad into the 21st century.


https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/norad-leaders-past-present-call-for-new-approach-to-north-american-defence/ar-BB18WEwB?ocid=msedgntp


----------



## Cronicbny (11 Sep 2020)

The publication "Hardening the Shield: A Credible Deterrent and Capable Defense (sic) for North America" can be found at this link

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/hardening-shield-credible-deterrent-capable-defense-north-america


----------



## MarkOttawa (17 Sep 2020)

Will RCN finally start talking about Russian submarines/cruise missiles threat in North Atlantic and its role in dealing with it?



> NATO’s new Atlantic command to keep watch over the European Arctic
> Levon Sevunts, Radio Canada International
> 
> NATO’s new U.S.-based Atlantic Command was declared operational in a ribbon-cutting ceremony in Norfolk, Virginia on Thursday, underlying the alliance’s efforts to secure its lines of communications in the North Atlantic and the European Arctic amid growing Russian presence in the region.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (18 Sep 2020)

This report of a fairly high-level CDA Institute webinar paints a pretty grim picture of NORAD's deteriorating detection/sensor capabilities vs developing threats (e.g. hypersonics, cyber attacks)--upgrades to North Warning System not nearly enough:



> NORAD Modernization: Report One: Awareness & Sensors
> 
> *Introduction*
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (21 Sep 2020)

More on the many things people are thinking about in context of NORAD modernization

1) From the US NORTHCOM/NORAD side"



> Hardening the Shield: A Credible Deterrent & Capable Defense for North America
> 
> Executive Summary:
> 
> ...



2) The excellent Prof. Andrea Charron responds to the Shield paper above, raising a number of concerns from a Canadian perspective–her conclusion:



> Responding to the Hardening the SHIELD: A Credible Deterrent and Capable Defense for North America
> Andrea Charron, PhD
> NAADSN Co-Lead
> Director, Centre for Defence and Security Studies
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## shawn5o (22 Sep 2020)

Regarding the SC's wish list (recomendations), DND and the CF have a serious problem coming up. (gleaned fom J.L. Granatstein's article in RCLegion magazine, "Defence in a pandamic", Sept?Oct 2020). I can't find it online so I'll only post snippets of the article.



> ... The demand for military assistance in domestic crises has increased dramatically.
> 
> ... the CAF was already stretched thin within its primary task of defending Canada and North America and carrying out Canadian commitments to the nation's alliances and the United nations.
> 
> ...



The last line says it all - Canada's government of every stripe usually cuts DND's budget and if the news going around that the throne speech will be about "green energy", I think the military is going to be the sacrificial lamb to satisfy the PM's dream of being the green leader of the world.

 :2c:


----------



## Donald H (22 Sep 2020)

shawn5o said:
			
		

> Regarding the SC's wish list (recomendations), DND and the CF have a serious problem coming up. (gleaned fom J.L. Granatstein's article in RCLegion magazine, "Defence in a pandamic", Sept?Oct 2020). I can't find it online so I'll only post snippets of the article.
> 
> The last line says it all - Canada's government of every stripe usually cuts DND's budget and if the news going around that the throne speech will be about "green energy", I think the military is going to be the sacrificial lamb to satisfy the PM's dream of being the green leader of the world.
> 
> :2c:



Shawn, you you not see a more 'green energy' approach by government as freeing up money for Canada's armed forces. It's certainly a popular opinion that a turn to green is cost effective and a win-win in the end. We could be being left behind by some countries that have the intention of going completely green in the next decade.

 :cheers:


----------



## MarkOttawa (1 Oct 2020)

Lots of implications for NORAD/NATO--US Navy may have big plans to expand underwater Arctic surveillance capabilities, both on North American and European NATO side (good graphics, further links at original):



> The Navy Is Building A Network Of Drone Submarines And Sensor Buoys In The Arctic
> _As competition in the Arctic heats up, the Navy is looking to drastically increase its awareness of what is going on up there._
> 
> he U.S. Navy has awarded the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution a contract worth more than $12 million to develop unmanned undersea vehicles and buoys, along with a networked communications and data sharing infrastructure to link them all together. The project is ostensibly focused on developing a overall system to support enhanced monitoring of environmental changes in the Arctic for scientific purposes. However, it’s not hard to see how this work could be at least a stepping stone to the creation of a wide-area persistent underwater surveillance system in this increasingly strategic region.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (1 Oct 2020)

On NORAD from CDA Institute--start of report:



> NORAD MODERNIZATION: REPORT TWO: DEFEAT CAPABILITIES
> 
> *Introduction*
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (6 Oct 2020)

Start and finish of paper by Prof. Andrea Charron, note also cyber:



> The United States Department of the Air Force’s Arctic Strategy, Space the Air Force’s Arctic Strategy, Space Force, the Unified Command Plan Force, the Unified Command Plan and the Implications for Canada and the Implications for Canada
> 
> Canada’s wish has come true. For years, the United States seemed to completely ignore the Arctic, even forgetting it was an Arctic state. Canada had to convince the United States to join the Arctic Council in 1996. In the background, NORAD regularly surveilled the Arctic and Canada and the United States exercised in the Arctic, albeit more tactically than strategically, and not for extended periods of time. Fast forward nearly twenty-five years later and the United States has concluded that the Arctic is now one of the most geostrategically important regions in the world. In rapid succession, the United States has released more Arctic strategies, including the first ever United States' Department of the Air Force's Arctic Strategy. What does this latest strategy portend for the future and specifically for Canada? What does the creation of U.S. Space Force and the U.S. Unified Command Plan suggest for Canada in the future? Will this be a case of regretting or embracing the increased United States'attention to the Arctic?
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (5 Nov 2020)

No, Virginia, the Arctic is not a hotly-contested region like the South China Sea, and China is not a big deal up there at this point--three paras from a major article at _War on the Rocks_ (further links at original):



> Why the Arctic is Not the ‘Next’ South China Sea
> 
> The South China Sea and the Arctic are increasingly grouped as strategic theaters rife with renewed great-power competition. This sentiment permeates current affairs analysis, which features geopolitical links between the two maritime theaters. And these assessments are not resigned to “hot takes” — the linkage features at senior policy levels, too. Consider, for example, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s rhetorical question, “Do we want the Arctic Ocean to transform into a new South China Sea, fraught with militarization and competing territorial claims?”..
> 
> ...



Earlier from Elizabeth Buchanan:



> Russia and China in the Arctic: assumptions and realities
> https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/russia-and-china-in-the-arctic-assumptions-and-realities/



Mark 
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (13 Nov 2020)

I think this article is bang on:



> Washington should chill out over Russia’s Arctic ambitions
> 
> One day before the U.S. election, Russian President Vladimir Putin attended the commissioning of a new diesel-electric icebreaker ship, the Viktor Chernomyrdin, which is the most powerful non-nuclear icebreaker in the world. Just two weeks prior, another ceremony announced the entry into service of an even larger and more formidable icebreaker, appropriately named Arktika.
> 
> ...



Mark 
Ottawa


----------



## CBH99 (13 Nov 2020)

I agree with you Mark, the article is bang on in my opinion too.


Not enough people - whether it's the general population or even the politicians that are involved in policy, have taken the time to look at a globe.  Even fewer have taken the time to look at a map specifically of the arctic region.

While there will be the possibility of interaction with Russian government entities in the arctic as the arctic opens up, they aren't anywhere near as close to us as the media seems to indicate.  And they do have every right to develop their own natural resources inside their own territory.


If there was some kind of disaster, such as an airliner going down - or even a ship in distress - the Russians have the physical capability to respond.  Neither we, nor the Americans, do.

(I'm not referring to an airliner going down the way it did during Operation Nanook a few years back.  I'm referring to one having an emergency even further north, in that sweet spot where Russian & North American territories start to meet.)


----------



## tomahawk6 (16 Nov 2020)

The coastline to watch is large but technology and citizen soldiers can help. We have had issues with the Russians messing with the crab fleet. Civilian fishermen need to be watched/protected They a by the Coast Guard. But they are stretched thin.


----------



## MarkOttawa (16 Nov 2020)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The coastline to watch is large but technology and citizen soldiers can help. We have had issues with the Russians messing with the crab fleet. Civilian fishermen need to be watched/protected They a by the Coast Guard. But they are stretched thin.



The CCG does not do the actual protecting--they provide the vessels (platforms) for enforcement officers (Fisheries, RCMP) to do that.

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MilEME09 (16 Nov 2020)

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> The CCG does not do the actual protecting--they provide the vessels (platforms) for enforcement officers (Fisheries, RCMP) to do that.
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



Should we not give them that power to free up the other two agencies?


----------



## suffolkowner (16 Nov 2020)

MilEME09 said:
			
		

> Should we not give them that power to free up the other two agencies?



And maybe the CF's too? Adding a constabulary role to the CCG always seems to hit a road block or two even at just the discussion stage.

With regard to the Northern Sea Route it bears watching going forward as this year there has been an extended period where ships were able to transit while completely avoiding Russian waters


----------



## CBH99 (16 Nov 2020)

suffolkowner said:
			
		

> And maybe the CF's too? Adding a constabulary role to the CCG always seems to hit a road block or two even at just the discussion stage.
> 
> With regard to the Northern Sea Route it bears watching going forward as this year there has been an extended period where ships were able to transit while completely avoiding Russian waters




It's going to require a shakeup of the CCG leadership & some common sense from Parliament to make it happen.

There needs to be a cultural shift at the top, and I don't think that'll happen until some of the senior leadership of the CCG retire.  They've had entire careers with a certain culture within the CCG, it'll be hard to change that.


But asking our Coast Guard to actually be able to guard something isn't too much to ask...   :2c:


----------



## FSTO (17 Nov 2020)

CBH99 said:
			
		

> It's going to require a shakeup of the CCG leadership & some common sense from Parliament to make it happen.
> 
> There needs to be a cultural shift at the top, and I don't think that'll happen until some of the senior leadership of the CCG retire.  They've had entire careers with a certain culture within the CCG, it'll be hard to change that.
> 
> ...



There has been quite a few former Senior RCN pers who have joined the CCG. Maybe a bit of cultural shift is on its way?


----------



## MarkOttawa (17 Nov 2020)

RCN CSC's SPY-7 Aegis radar missile-defence capable and Raytheon SM-3 could be carried in VLS:



> US successfully intercepts ICBM with ship-launched missile in historic test
> _The U.S. now has another defense system defending against North Korean ICBM’s._
> 
> In a first-of-its-kind test, the United States has successfully used a small ship-fired missile to intercept a target Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM), according to the Missile Defense Agency. The successful test shows the U.S. military now has another missile defense system capable of defending against North Korean ICBM’s aimed at the United States.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (22 Jan 2021)

Congress now noticing NORAD/North Warning System--US armed services are furiously active outlining plans to take part in what I call “the Arctic policy party” (see this article at _War on the Rocks_ on the need to coordinate the US’ military–and civilian–Arctic efforts: “Focusing the Military Services’ Arctic Strategies“).


The latest one is the US Army; I discovered the Congressional interest in NORAD/North Warning system in the article on the army below. If that interest persists, indeed grows, the pressure on Canada to start DOING SOMETHING may really mount–especially as the Biden administration might well look favourably on pushing ahead with a necessary _and defensive_ military renewal. Here’s what Congress has done, note the focus on cruise missiles:




> *Army chief teases new Arctic strategy*
> …Congressional appropriators provided $100 million for the U.S. North Warning System in the fiscal 2021 defense spending bill and is requiring the Pentagon to provide a report on the status of the system to include its operational integrity and what technology is used by the system compared to technology necessary to detect current and anticipated threats, particularly cruise missiles. The North Warning System is a joint U.S. and Canadian early-warning radar system for North American air defense.





> The bill also requires the Defense Department to come up with a plan to modernize capability to defend the homeland against cruise missiles including the modernization of the North Warning System…



I’ve seen nothing public to indicate that attention has been paid in Canada to these actions. I see them an indication that we had really better be getting our renewal act in gear before some hard hammering starts coming from the Americans.

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (27 Feb 2021)

MarkOttawa said:


> Congress now noticing NORAD/North Warning System--US armed services are furiously active outlining plans to take part in what I call “the Arctic policy party” (see this article at _War on the Rocks_ on the need to coordinate the US’ military–and civilian–Arctic efforts: “Focusing the Military Services’ Arctic Strategies“).
> 
> 
> The latest one is the US Army; I discovered the Congressional interest in NORAD/North Warning system in the article on the army below. If that interest persists, indeed grows, the pressure on Canada to start DOING SOMETHING may really mount–especially as the Biden administration might well look favourably on pushing ahead with a necessary _and defensive_ military renewal. Here’s what Congress has done, note the focus on cruise missiles:
> ...


Biden admin starting to put pressure on Trudeau gov't over NORAD modernization, North Warning System--our gov't still basically dithering, not willing to commit serious bucks. At the Wall St. Journal:



> *Cold War-Era Defense System to Get Upgrade to Counter Russia, China*
> _The U.S. and Canada move to modernize a missile-surveillance system in the Arctic that officials say is outdated_
> 
> The U.S. and Canada plan to modernize a network of defense satellites and radar in the Arctic, in a bid to counter a growing military presence in the north from Russia and China.
> ...



Canadian readout of Blinken/Garneau virtual meeting made no mention of NORAD, just says this:



> …
> As agreed upon by President Biden and Prime Minister Trudeau, both leaders are working on a future joint meeting of foreign and defence ministers and secretaries in which continental security cooperation will be discussed in greater depth…
> https://www.canada.ca/en/global-aff...teral-meeting-with-us-secretary-of-state.html



REALLY THIN, eh?

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (17 Mar 2021)

1) Ottawa dithering on North Warning System:



> The golden silence over NORAD renewal and the voices who want to shatter it​The old proverb "silence is golden" is pretty much the best way to describe the unwritten rule within the halls of power in Ottawa regarding NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defence Command.
> 
> The Liberal government has been largely silent on the matter.
> 
> ...



2) But US commander of NORTHCOM and NORAD looks to much more active, indeed pre-emptive, role for NORTHCOM--would seem to leave NORAD as rather an afterthought if cruise missiles are launched, US clearly thinks simply improving radars of North Warning System nowhere near enough for improving over-all defence:



> NORAD: Advanced Cruise Missile Threat Requires Better Awareness​Advanced cruise missiles and potential hypersonic weapons will challenge North American Aerospace Defense Command’s legacy warning systems, so the command needs to improve awareness to provide earlier warning.
> 
> USAF Gen. Glen D. VanHerck, commander of NORAD and U.S. Northern Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee on March 16 that the cruise missile threat from Russia is a considerable challenge and leaves decision makers with few options.
> 
> ...



Text of his testimony is here:


			https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/VanHerck_03-16-21.pdf
		


3) And here is the just-released "USNORTHCOM and NORAD Strategy"--the whole paper has a very aggressive tone to it that I find hard to believe Canadian gov't seriously considered, how much DND itself? Very much a NORTHCOM effort rather than NORAD. It certainly looks as if we had minimal input to drafting. I could find no reference to North Warning System. All in all quite a shot across Canadian continental defence bows with implied arrows outward before inward.

See
this, p. 8 PDF:



> ENDURINGCONDITION#1: Homelands defended from threats and adversary influence countered. NORAD's and USNORTHCOM's primary missions are to defend the United States and Canada against aggression. To be successful, we continue to globally integrate our defense with supporting CCMDs, CJOC, allies, and mission partners across all domains throughout competition and into crisis. A central aspect of our capable defense is a ready, credible deterrence to dissuade adversaries from threatening North America. NORAD's and USNORTHCOM's combined deterrence posture is part of a globally integrated approach, incorporating deterrence by denial at home, deterrence by punishment coordinated with our partners, and strategic application of all instruments of multi-national power through our governments.


Plus
p. 15 PDF:



> CONCLUSION
> 
> NORAD and USNORTHCOM must always plan, exercise, and operate as a combined force in all aspects of our collective mission to defend North America and protect our nations' critical infrastructure. We will preserve our nations' ability to generate and deploy forces from North America. We must also adopt new ways of thinking that ensure we outthink and outpace our adversaries. We will apply the strategic principles of all-domain awareness, information dominance, decision superiority, and global integration as we seek to achieve our enduring conditions in support of our nations' interests. We must accelerate efforts to transform our culture and factor homeland defense into every acquisition, budget, force design, and management decision [_in Canada!_]. In doing so, we can more effectively posture our commands and shape operational conditions that favor success in meeting future challenges. I [the two-hat commander] am optimistic that we are going in the right direction, we must continue on this path.





			https://www.northcom.mil/Portals/28/(U)%20NORAD-USNORTHCOM%20Strategy%20EXSUM%20-%20Signed.pdf
		


Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Good2Golf (17 Mar 2021)

Canada is (and deserves to be) the North American Fulda Gap.


----------



## MarkOttawa (17 Mar 2021)

Meanwhile US Army joins Arctic policy party–Norway somewhat in mind, perhaps to take place of Marines who have been active there but now turning to Western Pacific (https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/2020/08/washington-pulls-700-us-marines-out-norway)?


> *‘US Army Releases Arctic Strategy: Will Improve Service’s Posture in the Region*
> 
> The US Army recently completed its new Arctic strategy, laying out how the service can better position itself to operate in the region. The strategy includes plans about establishing an operational two-star headquarters with specially trained and equipped combat brigades.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## CBH99 (17 Mar 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Canada is (and deserves to be) the North American Fulda Gap.


Ouch.  Dark...

But, humbly, possibly true.  (I say this more towards China than Russia)


----------



## Good2Golf (17 Mar 2021)

CBH99 said:


> Ouch.  Dark...
> 
> But, humbly, possibly true.  (I say this more towards China than Russia)


I was thinking the same... 😉


----------



## MarkOttawa (18 Mar 2021)

Prof. Andrea Charron of U. of Manitoba featured in this piece at “HIgh North News” from Norway–note US Army and NORAD exercise:



> *NORAD, NORTHCOM Strategy Highlights Changing Strategic Environment in the Arctic*
> 
> “In today’s changing geopolitical environment not to mention environmentally changing world, Canada and the US need to rethink continental defence,” Dr. Andrea Charron, Director of the Centre for Defence and Security Studies says…
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (26 Mar 2021)

RCAF/USAF turning Thule into fighter base for NORAD Ex AMALGAMDART--with portable arresting gear--at the invaluable "War Zone" (Canadian media beaten yet again what CAF are doing)--with video:



> NORAD Fighters Are Using Arresting Gear For Year-Round Ops At Greenland’s Thule Air Base​The Arctic airbase hasn’t had a permanent fighter presence since the 1950s but is once again ready to accommodate fighters all year round.​
> Royal Canadian Air Force CF-18 Hornet fighter jets have been operating in Arctic winter conditions at Thule, in Greenland, home of the northernmost U.S. airbase, an immensely strategic facility just 947 miles from the North Pole. The jets are helping prove the concept of year-round operations at the base in the High North, using the Mobile Aircraft Arresting System, which adds an important additional margin of safety for landing planes.
> 
> The U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) announced recently that the U.S. Air Force’s 823rd RED HORSE Squadron — the acronym standing for Rapid Engineer Deployable Heavy Operational Repair Squadron Engineers — had installed the Mobile Aircraft Arresting System (MAAS) at Thule Air Base for use during the Amalgam Dart 21-2 air defense exercise. The U.S. Department of Defense confirmed that the MAAS was certified on March 21 via high-speed taxiing involving a Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) CF-18.
> ...




Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Fishbone Jones (26 Mar 2021)

MarkOttawa said:


> RCAF/USAF turning Thule into fighter base for NORAD Ex AMALGAMDART--with portable arresting gear--at the invaluable "War Zone" (Canadian media beaten yet again what CAF are doing)--with video:
> 
> 
> View attachment 64784
> ...


Does the arresting hook retract mechanically on our aircraft. I ask because the last time I worked on an aircraft with an arresting hook (Voodoo) we had to reload it manually with a lever, which was a bit of a pain as well as taking time to do.


----------



## MarkOttawa (1 Apr 2021)

MarkOttawa said:


> 2) But US commander of NORTHCOM and NORAD looks to much more active, indeed pre-emptive, role for NORTHCOM--would seem to leave NORAD as rather an afterthought if cruise missiles are launched, US clearly thinks simply improving radars of North Warning System nowhere near enough for improving over-all defence:



Hmm–JADC2 so one COCOM or another, can act in some form or another (not necessarily kinetically, maybe NORTHCOM itself), vs Russkies “left of launch” against North America? Some coded language here it seems to me:



> *COCOMs Want JADC2 Now, Not Later, VanHerck Says*
> 
> A successful wargame last week left the 11 combatant commanders wondering why the network and artificial intelligence technology it featured can’t be put to work right away, said U.S. Northern Command and NORAD commander Air Force Gen. Glen D. VanHerck.
> 
> ...



And last year from CDA Institute:



> NORAD Modernization: Report Three: JADC2/JADO​
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


----------



## MarkOttawa (23 Jun 2021)

What does Canadian government think of the US move towards "left of launch" for defence of North American?
From a piece by Prof. Nancy Steeples at RMC:



> *The Impact of the Post-Arms Control Context and Great Power Competition in the Arctic*





> …
> *What is the impact of new missile technology and the post-strategic arms control context in the Arctic?*
> 
> …USNORTHCOM and NORAD have released a new strategic guidance for developing all domain awareness capability and information dominance, under a deterrence by denial doctrine that shifts responses to Russian and Chinese aggression to the left (i.e., early, or prior-to the launch phase) to prevent or disarm threats before they are deployed… [see “NORAD and USNORTHCOM Strategy“]
> The Impact of the Post-Arms Control Context and Great Power Competition in the Arctic | The Arctic Institute


Mark
Ottawa


----------



## Weinie (23 Jun 2021)

MarkOttawa said:


> What does Canadian government think of the US move towards "left of launch" for defence of North American?
> From a piece by Prof. Nancy Steeples at RMC:
> 
> 
> ...


Is Russia only posturing in the Arctic? Or are they anticipating a Russian "Northwest Passage" that they can exploit for economic gain? There is some credible science that suggests that Russia will either have, or be able to create, a sea lane soon that would  be economically viable for a significant part of the world's shipping.


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## Good2Golf (23 Jun 2021)

Weinie said:


> Is Russia only posturing in the Arctic? Or are they anticipating a Russian "Northwest Passage" that they can exploit for economic gain? There is some credible science that suggests that Russia will either have, or be able to create, a sea lane soon that would  be economically viable for a significant part of the world's shipping.


Northern Sea Route is already a thing, is less obstructed than the NW Passage, and has several coastal replenishment points along the route.


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## Underway (24 Jun 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Northern Sea Route is already a thing, is less obstructed than the NW Passage, and has several coastal replenishment points along the route.


Agreed. Personally I think the NWP will never be a real thing.  By the time it properly opens up the NSR may be ice-free most of the year-round.


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## Good2Golf (24 Jun 2021)

Underway said:


> By the time it properly opens up the NSR may be ice-free most of the year-round.


And it seems the Chinese are helping the Russians by burning coal like all get out. 😉


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## MarkOttawa (26 Jun 2021)

MarkOttawa said:


> What does Canadian government think of the US move towards "left of launch" for defence of North American?
> From a piece by Prof. Nancy Steeples at RMC:


Very interesting podcast below, well worth the listen, by  CGAI with USAF BGEN at NORAD and USAF official on US thinking about future defence of North America ("the speed of relevance").

US thinking is all aimed “left of launch”, deterring or preventing (how?) Russian attacks, kinetic or otherwise, before they start, using combined actions by various US COCOMS (and NORAD) to achieve those goals, with all-domain info/data awareness/coordination/integration to achieve that “Global Information Dominance” (note this post: NORAD (and NORTHCOM) Thinking Offense of some sort vs Russian Threats–what does Canadian Government Think?).

To my mind that potentially gets NORAD and Canada involved in all sorts of things to which our government has not given formal, open consideration, much less any official agreement. Events seem to be racing way ahead of our thinking/commitments–we’re not in the North Warning System anymore, Toto.

They’re talking about a fundamentally different defence “environment” than almost anyone considers publicly in this country:



> The CGAI Podcast Network
> Defence Deconstructed: U.S. Perspectives on Continental Defence
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/user-609485369%2Fdefence-deconstructed-us-perspectives-on-continental-defence



Mark
Ottawa


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## MarkOttawa (27 Jul 2021)

No mention of NORAD or NATO in this story on USAF's developing its Arctic strategy--Norway noted, not Canada:



> Air Force Plans Wargames, Tech Experiments To Flesh Out Arctic Strategy ​
> The Air Force is wargaming with allies on how to counter Russia and China in the Arctic, looking to "understand the nature of the competition, as well as the range of capabilities that each of us bring to the problem," said Lt. Gen. Clinton Hinote, the service's lead strategist.​
> Wargames have become one of the Air Force’s key tools for implementing its year-old Arctic Strategy, with four separate series — each “with a different flavor” — being used to test new concepts and technology, says Lt. Gen. Clinton Hinote, deputy chief of staff for strategy, integration and requirements.
> 
> ...


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## MarkOttawa (16 Aug 2021)

Hmm--Joint Statement released just before fall of Kabul and call of Canadian election--no real specifics or firm commitments:



> Canada, U.S. vow stronger protection against ‘greater and more complex’ missile threat​The Canadian and U.S. governments say they intend to proceed with “co-ordinated investments” that bolster their ability to protect North America from “a greater and more complex conventional missile threat” including gear that watches for incoming threats from “the sea floor to outer space.”
> 
> The joint announcement [text here: Joint Statement on Norad Modernization - Canada.ca] from Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan and his American counterpart U.S. Secretary of Defence Lloyd Austin was published Saturday night, on the eve of Sunday’s federal election call in Canada. There were no spending commitments.
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## daftandbarmy (18 Sep 2021)

Well, this is comforting. We've got people up there who can spot a tiny little boat and call the cops!

Canada disputes Chinese news report that famous sailor was turned back from Northwest Passage​
Zhai would be the second sailor to attempt to circumvent Canada's interim order. In the summer of 2020, a sailor from New Zealand named Peter Smith tried to cross the Northwest Passage on a solo journey in a custom yacht, but was spotted by Nunavut land guardians and reported to Canadian authorities.

Transport Canada told CBC News it fined Smith for violating the ban, though it did not specify the amount.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/northwest-passage-canada-china-1.6178521?ref=mobilerss&cmp=newsletter_CBC%20News%20Top%20Headlines%20%20%E2%80%93%20Morning_1613_313673


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## MarkOttawa (25 Oct 2021)

More on US NORAD thinking in context of recent Joint Statement with Canada--one wonders what PM Trudeau’s government thinks of it all–if they even are paying any notice, what with the imminent federal election they have have been planning, and have now called, taking up almost all their mental bandwidth:

1) "Left of launch"



> US and Canada want to collaborate on NORAD modernization​...
> At an Aug. 17 Center for Strategic and International Studies event, VanHerck outlined some modernization initiatives that would enable teams to see threats sooner and react faster.
> 
> “Homeland defense doesn’t start in the homeland. It starts abroad. I don’t want to be shooting down cruise missiles over the national capital region. I think that’s a little bit late in the process. So I’d like to be engaging or deterring, well, what I call left of launch,” said VanHerck.
> ...



2) Cruise missiles from Russian territory:



> *Russia is Top Military Threat to U.S. Homeland, Air Force General Says*
> 
> Russia, with its array of hard-to-detect cruise missiles and advanced submarines, poses the primary military threat to the American homeland today, the commander of U.S. Northern Command said Tuesday.
> “They’ve developed capabilities that didn’t exist 20 years ago …very low radar cross-section cruise missiles [and] submarines on par with our submarines,” Air Force Gen. Glen VanHerck said.
> ...


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## MarkOttawa (25 Oct 2021)

Now a report from CDAI:


> *NORAD Modernization Forum*:
> Information Dominance
> 
> *Introduction*
> ...





> *Executive Summary
> 
> N*orth American continental defence is undergoing a transformational modernization amidst the digital age. Emerging technologies and emboldened adversaries are creating the environment necessary for NORAD and USNORTHCOM to achieve information dominance. The Commander needs more information from an updated sensor network that includes data from all domains. This will allow for a fuller understanding of possible threats from adversaries and create more time for decision-making, with informed and trusted data needed to broaden the possible choices and options to achieve Decision Superiority.
> 
> ...





> NORAD Modernization Forum: Information Dominance | CDA Institute
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Read on. The report indicates a serious US intent effectively to re-invent NORAD–or perhaps relegate NORAD to some sort of backwater, with serious defence of the US in almost all, er, domains allocated to US NORTHCOM, if the Canadian government does not start getting its defence of North America ass in a much higher gear to cope with what’s happening now and coming down the road.

But I’d bet dollars to Timbits that almost none of the Liberal pols, and no-one at senior bureaucratic levels in National Defence or, help, Global Affairs Canada, is paying the least attention to the substance of these matters that are of increasing public attention and concern in certain important American quarters (quarters, including in Congress, that have no real equivalents here). Our federal policy capacity for defence is pushing up daisies at higher levels (and the forces are rather pre-occupied with  reported scandals amongst GoFos).

Americans will make decisions on what they judge necessary to defend their homeland; there will be a real price to pay, either in dollars or sovereignty, for Canada depending on when our government finally wakes up and on what it decides to do–or not, And smells more than the Tim Hortons Double Double coffee.

A Pentagon video and news release on GIDE (Global Information Dominance Experiments] are here.:
NORAD and U.S. Northern Command lead the third Global Information Dominance Experiment (GI.

Mark
Ottawa


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## TCM621 (25 Oct 2021)

MarkOttawa said:


> Now a report from CDAI:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The US Military will definitely appreciate our commitment to reconciliation and gender equality. That should be enough. Right? 

I'm partially joking but our capabilities are (relatively speaking) way worse than the decade of darkness at a time when China is rising, Russia is trying to regain its place and the US is falling apart internally. We haven't pulled our weight in years and the US knows it.


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## MarkOttawa (1 Nov 2021)

Major article by Profs Andrea Charron and James Fergusson of U. of Manitoba:



> NORAD’s Maritime Warning Role:
> Origins and Future
> 
> 
> https://navalreview.ca/wp-content/uploads/public/vol17num2/cnr_vol17_2_Charron_and_Fergusson.pdf



Mark
Ottawa


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## suffolkowner (25 Dec 2021)

Rethinking Canada’s Security Strategy: How Canada Can Graduate from the Kids’ Table - Canadian Global Affairs Institute
		


wasn't sure where to put this, but fat chance on our growing up as we've been more than happy to shirk our share for way too long now. The public has no great interest in national defence and security and therefore is no political value in it. Unless the US starts explicitly tying some of these defence issues to economic ones I don't foresee a change


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## Kirkhill (25 Dec 2021)

Necessary background - Note the references to Canada and the US expectations thereof.



			Strategy
		




> *Our Strategy*​*The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and U.S. Northern Command (USNORTHCOM) are separate commands. Both leverage **the (US) commander's** singular vision and guidance; develop plans to meet challenges in the same strategic and operational environments; build complementary mission approaches; and share a common goal of defense of the United States and Canada.* This NORAD and USNORTHCOM Strategy is a combined strategy that aligns with objectives identified in the Interim National Security Strategic Guidance, National Defense Strategy, and* Canada’s Strong, Secure, Engaged policy**.*





> Problem Statement​Over the last three decades, *our nations*’ competitors and potential adversaries have watched *Canada* and the United States and *our* way of deterring, competing, and conducting war. They have adapted and developed advanced capabilities in all domains challenging *us* at home and across the competition continuum, and holding at risk* our people, our critical infrastructure, and our power projection capabilities*.





> Strategic Environment​For decades, *our nations* enjoyed the benefits of dominant military capabilities in all domains and we relied on* our geography* to serve as a barrier to keep *our nations* beyond the reach of most conventional threats. *Our ability* to project power forward along with *our* technological overmatch has allowed *us* to fight forward and focus *our* energy on conducting operations overseas. However, *our *competitors have analyzed *our* ability to operate overseas and have invested in capabilities such as ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, hypersonic weapons, small unmanned aircraft systems, artificial intelligence, cyber capabilities, and delivery platforms to offset *our* strengths while exploiting *our* perceived weaknesses. These advancing capabilities embolden competitors and adversaries to challenge *us* at home, looking to threaten *our people, our critical infrastructure and our power projection capabilities*. As a result, the stakes are higher than they have been in decades and, for NORAD and USNORTHCOM,* successful continental defense is the only option*.
> 
> Whether* the threats come from China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, violent extremist organizations, or transnational criminal organizations (TCOs*), significant challenges persist. This environment requires a culture change that factors in homeland defense, from a global perspective, into every aspect of operational plans and strategies, decisions, and budgeting choices resulting in the sustained successful defense of our two nations.
> 
> *The Arctic* provides a good example of the changing physical and strategic environment and is* a zone of international competition*. Both Russia and China are increasing their activity in the Arctic.* Russia’s fielding of advanced, long-range cruise missiles capable of being launched from Russian territory and flying through the northern approaches and seeking to strike targets in the United States and Canada has emerged as the dominant military threat in the Arctic*. Additionally, diminished sea ice and competition over resources present overlapping challenges in this strategically significant region. China is not content to remain a mere observer in the growing competition, declaring itself a “near-Arctic state,” and has taken action to normalize its naval and commercial presence in the region to increase its access to lucrative resources and shipping routes.


 


> Missions & Vision​
> 
> *NORAD conducts aerospace warning, aerospace control, and maritime warning in the defense of North America.*
> 
> ...





> Strategic Principles​1. Global Integration in order to achieve a Globally Integrated Layered Defense​2. All-Domain Awareness (Observe)​3. Information Dominance (Orient)​4. Decision Superiority (Decide and Act)​The four strategic principles used to achieve our priorities are building blocks under an umbrella of Global Integration (GI). All-Domain Awareness (DA) is the first step in pursuit of Information Dominance (ID), which is used to reach Decision Superiority (DS) in competition and crisis. Applying these strategic principles positions the commands further “left of launch” not just in crisis, but also during competition in order to get inside the adversaries Observe-Orient-Decide-Act (OODA) loop and complicate their calculus.





> 1. Global Integration in order to achieve a Globally Integrated Layered Defense​*Our *adversaries operate globally, across all domains and organizational boundaries. Use of a global framework, rather than regional, to synchronize global all-domain operations is paramount to success. A globally integrated layered defense consists of layers in terms of geography (forward regions, approaches, and the homeland layers), domains (air, land, sea, space, cyber, electromagnetic spectrum, and cognitive), and whole-of-governments/nations.
> 
> 
> The *forward layer* consists of forward-deployed *Canadian* and U.S. forces integrated with allies and partners;
> ...






> Enduring Conditions​*NORAD* and USNORTHCOM’s strategic approach focuses on achieving four *enduring conditions (ECs)* through the lens of the strategic principles. Because the nature of *continental defense* is not conducive to achieving a traditional "end state," the ECs drive us to continually evaluate the efficacy of operational planning and execution. This ensures our efforts, priorities, and resources are driving towards NORAD and USNORTHCOM's top priority - defending our nations. The four ECs serve as guideposts to drive efforts throughout both commands:





> Enduring Condition #1
> *Homelands* defended from threats and adversary influence countered.​
> *NORAD's* and USNORTHCOM's primary missions are to defend the United States and *Canada *against aggression. To be successful, *we* continue to globally integrate *our* defense with supporting CCMDs, *CJOC*, allies, and mission partners across all domains throughout competition and into crisis. A central aspect of *our* capable defense is a ready, credible deterrence to dissuade adversaries from threatening North America. *NORAD's* and USNORTHCOM's combined deterrence posture is part of a globally integrated approach, incorporating deterrence by denial at home, deterrence by punishment coordinated with *our* partners, and strategic application of all instruments of multi-national power through *our governments*.
> Compete and deter aggression.​
> ...





> Enduring Condition #2​United States and Canada outpace competitors to ensure our military advantage is expanded and not eroded.​
> In order to maintain and increase *our lead, we *need to identify areas of competitive advantage, invest in them, and continually assess their effectiveness to ensure* we* are outpacing our adversaries.
> Outpace* our competitors *through innovative concepts and technology.​
> In order to achieve decision superiority, *we must move past relying on complex, unique, and unaffordable defeat mechanisms*. *We* will continue to modernize by working with industry partners to develop innovative approaches/systems and improve infrastructure in support of our strategic principles.
> ...





> Enduring Condition #3​U.S. and *Canada's* national security enhanced and regional stability maintained through strengthened partnerships.​
> Aligned with the Interim National Security Strategic Guidance and *Strong, Secure, Engaged,* we will revitalize *our unmatched network of alliances and partnerships*. In this era of great power competition, robust relationships with *ou*r international and interagency mission partners, the Services, other CCMDs, industry, the private sector, and academia are key to expanding the competitive space and enabling a layered defense of North America across the competition continuum.
> Develop and strengthen mission partnerships.​
> *NORAD* and USNORTHCOM promote and actively engage with value-added mission partners such as NATO and FiveEye partners (*Canada*, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand and the United States), both *Canadian* and U.S. Services, *Canadian *and U.S. interagency partners, private industry, and academia to accept, promote, refine, and expand upon the strategic principles. Adoption of the strategic principles by our partners will foster greater innovation and synergy and will promote interoperability.
> ...





> Enduring Condition #4​(USNORTHCOM) Civil authorities provided rapid flexible response options to improve collective resiliency.​
> We will continue supporting when requested, both in response to natural or manmade disasters and in countering TCOs. Our ability to support our civil authority partners for large-scale incidents and national special security events (NSSEs) requires detailed integrated planning.
> As the supported command for the Defense Support of Civil Authorities (DSCA) mission and the DSCA synchronizer within the USNORTHCOM AOR, we proactively plan and respond with key enabling capabilities to requests for assistance from interagency partners during incidents.​
> Catastrophic disasters require an extraordinary level of synchronization among Federal, State, Tribal, local, private sector, and nongovernmental organizations. COVID-19 has reinforced the importance of our Pandemics and Infectious Diseases (P&ID) responsibility for the planning of DoD efforts and the need to coordinate across the whole-of-government.
> ...


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## Kirkhill (25 Dec 2021)

> Enhance National resiliency.​
> Equally as important as defeating threats is the *hardening of critical infrastructure and promoting domestic resilience* in order to mitigate the consequences of attacks, both kinetic and non-kinetic. *Our* demonstrated ability to respond to diverse attacks with a whole-of-government response is a strong deterrent to *our adversaries*. Protecting *our nations *is *a prerequisite to projecting power abroad.*



It is difficult to think of many enemies having the ability to attack the fabric of North America with more devastation than some recent events.

2001 terrorist attacks and financial crisis
2008 financial crisis
2020 biological crisis
2021 supply chain crisis
2021 BC transportation crisis
2021 US Hurricane and Tornado crises.

And yet both the US and Canada are still here and there was no requirement to declare martial law.  We are resilient.

Forgot to add in ice storms and cyber attacks on energy and food supplies.


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## MilEME09 (5 Jan 2022)

Canada's hesitancy on military defence is leaving us vulnerable - Macleans.ca
		


Knock knock, reality


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## Good2Golf (5 Jan 2022)

MilEME09 said:


> Canada's hesitancy on military defence is leaving us vulnerable - Macleans.ca
> 
> 
> 
> Knock knock, reality


Canadians…


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## MarkOttawa (9 Jan 2022)

Can anyone imagine the RCN allowing a Canadian network TV crew on a frigate doing ASW in North Atlantic vs Russian subs? Our Navy never highlights such NATO work vs those SSNs. Royal Navy has, post at _Thin Pinstriped Line_:



> ""Verify Range to Target - One Ping Only" - HMS NORTHUMBERLAND and the Russians..."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## dimsum (9 Jan 2022)

MarkOttawa said:


> Can anyone imagine the RCN allowing a Canadian network TV crew on a frigate doing ASW in North Atlantic vs Russian subs? Our Navy never highlights such NATO work vs those SSNs. Royal Navy has, post at _Thin Pinstriped Line_:


Me playing Devil's Advocate, and granted, I haven't seen an episode of Warship:

There's a lot of classified stuff involved with those missions.  Would the CO or higher want TV crews showing it?  If it's scrubbed, it'll be like the Aurora episode of "Mighty Planes" - superficially interesting but not much to show
The RCN has done quite a bit of social media stuff, and arguably it hits the younger demographic more so than TV
If they invite the TV crew on and have free (minus classified stuff) access, what happens if something negative happens?  First example coming to mind is the PBS show Carrier, where the TV crew went on a 6-month sail onboard a CVN.  It focused on a few people, and ended up with one of them being charged with sexual assault (or something like that).  It can paint the RCN/CAF in an even worse light.


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## dapaterson (9 Jan 2022)

Clearly, we'd have to give all the crew members intensive DLN training in advance of the camera crew being given access.


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## Journeyman (10 Jan 2022)

MarkOttawa said:


> Can anyone imagine the a Canadian network interested in reporting  RCN allowing a Canadian network TV crew on a frigate doing ASW in North Atlantic vs Russian subs?


Nope.


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## Czech_pivo (10 Jan 2022)

Not sure if this article belongs here but its an interesting read on Alaska/NORAD.

Royal Canadian Air Force Arctic Guardian keeps watch with 176th Air Defense Squadron​








						Royal Canadian Air Force Arctic Guardian keeps watch with 176th Air Defense Squadron
					

JOINT BASE ELMENDORF-RICHARDSON, Alaska -- Besides her distinctively mottled Canadian Disruptive Pattern uniform and a habit of pronouncing lieutenant as “left-tenant,” there is nothing



					www.ang.af.mil


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## Journeyman (10 Jan 2022)

I had a friend who had been posted up there. She said that "from a woman's perspective, the odds are good.... but the goods are odd."


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## FSTO (10 Jan 2022)

Czech_pivo said:


> Not sure if this article belongs here but its an interesting read on Alaska/NORAD.
> 
> Royal Canadian Air Force Arctic *Guardian* keeps watch with 176th Air Defense Squadron​
> 
> ...


Canada have folks in Space Force?


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## dimsum (10 Jan 2022)

FSTO said:


> Canada have folks in Space Force?


Yes, there are RCAF folks in Vandenberg, amongst other places.


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