# Osama Bin Laden Dead



## jeffb

CNN is reporting that President Obama is going to announce that Osama Bin Laden is not only dead but that the US has the body. 

The statement from the President will be (is) available here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/live?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

CBC reporting here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/01/us-obama.html?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4dbe1e8be002c37c%2C0


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## Stoker

If its true then good, hope you roast in hell. >


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## daftandbarmy

Well, there's the excuse I needed to crack a fresh bottle of single malt teenager. Ya.... friggin'....hoo !!!!!


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## Jaydub

Looks legit.  It's on CBC and CNN right now.


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## VinceW

EXCELLENT!!


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## HavokFour

Greatest day of my life. Now lets clean out the rest of them!


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## canada94

I was 7 years old.. when I asked my parents what was going on, on TV on september 11th.. I remember it so vividly! And now he is finally gone. 

WOW

- Mike


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## Fishbone Jones

I don't think he's been more than a vision for the last five or six years. AQ seems to be fractured into different orgs that don't seem to be working in sync.

I'm certainly not going to boo hoo the fact and will raise more than a couple of glasses, but Obama better role out irrefutable evidence in the initial announcement. I want to see the body and positive DNA evidence. Even then, given the US penchant for coverups, I'd prefer an independent, neutral analysis from an outside the US scientific agency. Otherwise, doubt will still be out there, which means bin Laden lives in the minds of the faithful.

As I said, he hasn't seemed to have had a grip for some time. I doubt whether AQ will stop to mourn his passing. Some may even celebrate with us, although for their own reasons.


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## WonderGirl

Good stuff! I just happened to be watching TV that morning Sept, 2011 and watched it all happen live.   Glad a part of this evil chapter is over.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden


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## GAP

Apparently he was in a mansion on the outskirts of Islamibad......oooohhh....is NATO going to come down hard, $$ wise, on Pakistan if it can be proven they sheltered him....


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## Sapplicant

Hope they gibbet the body for the 10 year anniversary. I know, I'm a monster. Quel domage.


Allahu akbar



edited for extra content.


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## Gravja

Shot in the head.... 

too fast   :threat:


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## HavokFour

I for one hope the body is cremated and fused into the porcelain of a toilet for public use.


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## hamr37

Glad to hear that he is finally dead. However he died, it couldn't have happened sooner. I can tell you I'll be raising some glasses to this next weekend!  ;D


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## tomahawk6

A covert ops mission got him !! Face to face. :cheers:


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## cameron

Praise the Lord, and may he burn in hell!


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## Sapplicant

HavokFour said:
			
		

> I for one hope the body is cremated and fused into the porcelain of a toilet for public use.




Put it at ground zero, and charge people like, 50 bucks to use it. Donate money to 9/11 charities.


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## krustyrl

Hope they also roasted more of his AQ cronies.....

...MAY HE NEVER REST IN PEACE....

Today, the world is a better place.


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## GrimRX

A good election gift.  Now lets get a Conservative victory,


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## Lowlander

Not soon enought


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## Rheostatic

Streaming address from the White House:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/live


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## Fishbone Jones

Well, just heard Obama's speech. I'll leave others to judge. I wanted to invoke Joe Friday. " Just the facts Ma'am"

He let Pakistan off and it started to sound like an election speech.

Kudos to the triggerman and the team.


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## hamr37

Obama can give one hell of a speech.


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## Saskboy

Sapplicant said:
			
		

> Put it at ground zero, and charge people like, 50 bucks to use it. Donate money to 9/11 charities.



Sounds like a plan to me.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. In the end he went out as many of them do, bleeding and laying in a puddle of his own excrement. There is no end that wouldn't still be too kind for that SOB. Good riddance and well done to the soldiers responsible.


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## Fishbone Jones

I suppose they needed the whole body. His head in a sandbag would've sufficed for me.


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## The_Falcon

BZ to the CT Team and Int people that made this all, possible.  I sincerely hope they are getting seriously plastered on the gov't for a long while.


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## Kat Stevens

"Now back to headquarters for debriefing and cocktails"


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## Jaydub

Did anyone else think of these guys?







In all seriousness, though, well done.


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## HavokFour

> Navy SEALS involved in the Osama bin Laden mission, senior defense official tells @clawrencecnn


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## Lowlander

When I first saw it on facebook, i thought that it said that obama was dead.


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## tomahawk6

Fitting for DEVGRU to be part of the op and the Nightstalkers. The op occured at Abbottabad home of a Pakistani Army brigade and the Pakistani Military Academy is in the AO as well.


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## Sapplicant

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> "Now back to headquarters for debriefing and cocktails"




F**k yeah


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## Infanteer

Payback is a b***h!  BZ to SOCOM and anyone else in pulling this off.


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## VinceW

Mission Accomplished.


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## HavokFour

Oddly enough, May 1st is the same day Hitler was killed in 1945.


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## JMesh

Stacked said:
			
		

> Courtesy of Fox News.
> 
> Yes this is actually what they had displayed.
> 
> I love the news anchors face.



No worse than CBC. Their anchor tonight (Wendy Mesley) said that we would hear from Stephen Harper shortly after the speech by Osama bin Laden. I wish I was making this up.

Can't say I'm sorry to hear this news. A joyous day, really.


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## Northalbertan

Excellent news!  BZ to the SF Team that got him.  I sense a very large worldwide celebration on the horizon.  You have to wonder though with the Pakistani Intelligence and a brigade HQ in the vicinity, why they didn't pot him sooner.  HMMMMMMMMMMM.  The Pakistani intelligence service or Army wouldn't hold info on Bin Laden back would they?   :


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Just drove in from Toledo, read this thread and said "Oh yea, this means I crack the duty-free right now."

Looking forward hearing to the whole scoop....................


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## tomahawk6

The assault team was inserted by 3 choppers one of whom crashed due to mechanical failure.No US loss of life. One of OBL's sons was killed as well.


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## daftandbarmy

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> The assault team was inserted by 3 choppers one of whom crashed due to mechanical failure.No US loss of life. One of OBL's sons was killed as well.



This is a great start. Gerry Adams next please. ;D

After the Glenmorangie and Lagavulin, I'm moving on to Jack Daniels in honour of the US-SOF troops who did the business. BZ chaps...


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## Jaydub




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## Kalatzi

+1 on bon laden

Therses plenty to indicat e you shouldn't be too cheerful about the other 

e.g.How many layers on the pdf??

The clincher SEEMS  to be that the statehas certified it as authentic

Intersting times


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## Dou You

Jaydub said:
			
		

>



Haha that's EPIC!


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## Thompson_JM

May 1st 2011.

We got him.

May the families of the victims of 9/11, and those who have lost loved ones in the War on Terror sleep just a bit easier on this night. For there is one less Monster under the bed.


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## Sapplicant

So, it's a given that some many of us will be consuming some a lot of fire-water tonight. Remember folks, don't get so into it that tomorrow you stay in bed all day, and forget to go vote. Just sayin'.


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## Rogo

Watched this unfold on the news tonight, was about damn time. Drinks being had to the brave men and women who made his death possible.   

I am sure I don't need to remind anyone however that this day has come after the death of 155 servicemen/women who will forever be better human beings than the adversary.    RIP to the 155


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## VinceW

Osamas face


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## Thompson_JM

Rogo said:
			
		

> Watched this unfold on the news tonight, was about damn time. Drinks being had to the brave men and women who made his death possible.
> 
> I am sure I don't need to remind anyone however that this day has come after the death of 155 servicemen/women who will forever be better human beings than the adversary.    RIP to the 155



+1

This to me is the vindication that our 155 brothers and sisters have not died in vain.  

The glass I raised to the fallen tonight did however taste just a little better.... may their families, and those who have suffered by the hands and mind of this monster find peace in his death.


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## S.Stewart

Jaydub said:
			
		

>



That is epic...I wonder where you got it from.


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## Thompson_JM

VinceW said:
			
		

> Osamas face



That is a terrible photoshop.... there is no way that is an official picture...


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## HavokFour

Tommy said:
			
		

> That is a terrible photoshop.... there is no way that is an official picture...



Yeah, it's fake. Been circulating around the net.


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## Sapplicant

What happens to the bounty that was on his head?


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## Crank

Sapplicant said:
			
		

> What happens to the bounty that was on his head?



since a navy seal team conducted the killing no money there but its possible someone in the small town gave some info that could be worth the $25 000 000. They mentioned the bounty on CNN and had no details on it yet,


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## JB 11 11

Couple of interesting quotes from BBC:

"A US official quoted by Associated Press news agency said Bin Laden's body had been buried at sea, although this has not been confirmed."

I guess being one bird short , they had to ditch some weight on the ride home 

Also:

"The Abbottabad residence is just 700m (800 yards) from the Pakistan Military Academy - the country's equivalent of West Point."

I know someone mentioned it was in the AO, but 700m?! thats just ridiculous!


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## vonGarvin

HavokFour said:
			
		

> Oddly enough, May 1st is the same day Hitler was killed in 1945.


Hitler killed himself on 30 April, 1945.


Wow, today is going to be a good day!!!!!!!!


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## 57Chevy

shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Bin Laden death stirs mixed emotions in Saudi Arabia
By Abeer Allam in Riyadh  May 2 2011 10:33
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dcd80506-7498-11e0-8988-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1LBi19Xgs
In the land of his birth, reports of the death of Saudi-born Osama bin Laden in Pakistan surfaced early on Monday morning, sparking mixed emotions ranging from cheers, mourning, denial, to a stream of conspiracy theories. 
---
---
I am not sure he was actually killed. Why wasn’t he displayed like Saddam? Why are they taking his body? It is disrespectful.”
---
---
more at link...
*copy and paste headline in search engine


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## jollyjacktar

Well well.  I was here on course at CFNES on my QL5 when 9/11 happened and I am once again here on a career course.  The circle has been closed.

A banner day indeed.   Our turn to go out in the streets and shout for joy.


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## 211RadOp

Here is the last night's Globe and Mail, updated today.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/us-led-operation-kills-osama-bin-laden-body-buried-at-sea/article2006299/page3/



> His death may not diminish the Taliban insurgency, which portrays itself as an Afghan nationalist jihad against foreign invaders, and could inspire a new spasm of violence in reaction to what they will likely call the martyrdom of a Muslim idol.



I suspect this statement may very well happen.


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## Pencil Tech

S.Stewart said:
			
		

> That is epic...I wonder where you got it from.



Love it! Thank you.


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## tomahawk6

What is an interesting reaction in Pakistan is outrage that the US mounted an operation in their country NOT that OBL was found living comfortably in one of their cities just a short distance from a police station and a military academy.The outrage ought to be how corrupt the security forces were.


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## ArmyRick

For all the death and destruction this POS caused, no remorse and the world is a better place for having been rid of him. 

To the US troops who got him, good job!


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## Rifleman62

Congratulations USA.

News reports incl that one of those killed used a woman as a human shield. She was also killed. Cowards.


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## PuckChaser

Good riddance to bad rubbish!!


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## jollyjacktar

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> What is an interesting reaction in Pakistan is outrage that the US mounted an operation in their country NOT that OBL was found living comfortably in one of their cities just a short distance from a police station and a military academy.The outrage ought to be how corrupt the security forces were.



I'm sure that his being there was no real secret to many in Pakistan.


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## GAP

Conspiracy theories already abound....no body, is he really dead? is what jumped out at me.....but it doesn't give his empire a rallying point....


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## Wookilar

Official explanation for the burial at sea was that no other country would take him.

They must have forgotten to call Somalia  

Should probably have said "no country that we trust."

Wook


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## Scott

Theories...yes.

Elvis is alive, the earth is flat, lunar landings were fake and Obama isn't 'Merican. This shit has to come from the same people - who all have major shares in Alcan.


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## Sprinting Thistle

Burial at sea?  Area 51 more like it.  The next Indiana Jones movie will prove it.


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## George Wallace

Shark food.


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## Journeyman

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Hitler killed himself on 30 April, 1945.


The body of the _allegedly_ dead Hitler was never produced either.


Yep, it's a good day for tinfoil sales   ;D


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## Kat Stevens

I don't believe it for a second.  "Yep, we killed him!"
                                                 "Any pictures?"
                                                 "Errr, no, sorry, the camera battery died."
                                                 "Where's the body?"
                                                 "Ummmm... we dumped it in the ocean."
                                                 "And nobody had a cell phone or camera?"
                                                 "Nope, damned inconvenient too, sorry"
                                                 "I'm thinking it's the exact polar opposite of inconvenient, actually."


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## Sapplicant

So I guess this means he fled to Argentina Venezuela.   >

When I read about his body being handled in accordance with Muslim tradition, my initial reaction was a bit mixed. Then, when I thought rationally about it, that's just another reason we're better than "them". I'm sure that Daniel Pearl's body was handled in accrodance with ?Jewish? tradition.  :


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## Ex-Dragoon

They should have fed him to the pigs.


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## tomahawk6

The intel haul out of the mansion should lead to other top leaders of AQ.


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## George Wallace

At least with staying in accordance with Islamic customs and burying the dead within a certain time limit, the US has 'honoured' him in that way.  The burial at sea, prevents his having a tomb or other structure built over his body to commemorate/glorify him as a martyr.  There are enough scavengers swimming in the oceans to quickly dispose of his remains.


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## HavokFour

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-raid-pakistan.html

Got some pictures of the room he was killed in, I'm going to assume they have pictures of the body now.

EDIT: He was also apparently shot through the left eye, which would explain why they didn't just release his mug shot immediately.


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## Crank

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I don't believe it for a second.  "Yep, we killed him!"
> "Any pictures?"
> "Errr, no, sorry, the camera battery died."
> "Where's the body?"
> "Ummmm... we dumped it in the ocean."
> "And nobody had a cell phone or camera?"
> "Nope, damned inconvenient too, sorry"
> "I'm thinking it's the exact polar opposite of inconvenient, actually."



The body was dumped in the ocean so that his burial place could not become a holy site and the "burial" performed very quickly I believe due to muslim customs.


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## George Wallace

;D  See reply # 78


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## BHC1

Crank said:
			
		

> The body was dumped in the ocean so that his burial place could not become a holy site and the "burial" performed very quickly I believe due to muslim customs.



Won't the place where he was killed serve the same purpose?


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## midget-boyd91

From CNN
 "There *are* also photographs of the body with a gunshot wound to the side of the head that shows an individual who is recognizable as bin Laden, a U.S. government official said. *No decision has yet been made on whether to release the photographs and if so, when and how*. "


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## PuckChaser

BHC1 said:
			
		

> Won't the place where he was killed serve the same purpose?



Want the SEAL team to set semtex and raise the place to the ground? The fanatics will always find something to cling on to.


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## HavokFour

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Want the SEAL team to set semtex and raise the place to the ground? The fanatics will always find something to cling on to.



Turn it into a toxic waste dump.  ;D


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## HavokFour

http://www.amazon.com/Osama-Bin-Laden-Toilet-Paper/dp/B003OAA5Y4/?tag=dealswoot-20

GET 'EM WHILE YOU CAN!


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## Haletown

HavokFour said:
			
		

> Turn it into a toxic waste dump.  ;D



Or a pig farm.


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## Crank

Haletown said:
			
		

> Or a pig farm.



comment of the year


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## Edward Campbell

This is an interesting but, ultimately, unimportant development.

Osama bin Laden was not, in and of himself, _the_ or even _a_ 'root cause' of the fundamentalist _Islamist_ terror campaign. The real 'root causes' lie in the inability of Muslim states, of Muslim kings and sheiks and other assorted leaders, to give their peoples the benefits of great wealth and peace. Instead some kings and emirs and muftis preach hatred and fear - and they fund groups like _al qaeda_ and things like the _madrassas_ in Pakistan that created and now sustain the Taliban. Until we get at the source of the money - much of which comes from Saudi royalty who walk comfortably in the halls the White House - we will not be able to cut of one of the _hydra_'s many heads. But the important heads, the ones which must be lopped off, are out of our reach. Only young Arabs and Persians and Pakistanis and so on and so forth can overthrow the old, corrupt regimes, forswear despair and hopelessness and lift themselves up by their own efforts.

Killing bin Laden is an interesting development, but it is not a way-station, not even a minor one, on road to peace.


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## a_majoor

How they found him:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13512344



> *One Unwary Phone Call Led US to Bin Laden Doorstep*
> 
> An exclusive look inside the Pakistani mansion where Osama bin Laden was killed by US forces in Abbottabad, Pakistan, May 2, 2011. ABC News/AP PhotoAUTO START: ON | OFF
> 
> By ADAM GOLDMAN and MATT APUZZO Associated Press
> WASHINGTON May 2, 2011 (AP)
> When one of Osama bin Laden's most trusted aides picked up the phone last year, he unknowingly led U.S. pursuers to the doorstep of his boss, the world's most wanted terrorist.
> 
> That phone call, recounted Monday by a U.S. official, ended a years-long search for bin Laden's personal courier, the key break in a worldwide manhunt. The courier, in turn, led U.S. intelligence to a walled compound in northeast Pakistan, where a team of Navy SEALs shot bin Laden to death.
> 
> The violent final minutes were the culmination of years of intelligence work. Inside the CIA team hunting bin Laden, it always was clear that bin Laden's vulnerability was his couriers. He was too smart to let al-Qaida foot soldiers, or even his senior commanders, know his hideout. But if he wanted to get his messages out, somebody had to carry them, someone bin Laden trusted with his life.
> 
> In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.
> 
> One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational leader he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given al-Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed.
> 
> If they could find that courier, they'd find bin Laden.
> 
> The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.
> 
> "We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.
> 
> Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.
> 
> It took years of work for intelligence agencies to identify the courier's real name, which officials are not disclosing. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA's sources didn't know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold.
> 
> Then in the middle of last year, the courier had a telephone conversation with someone who was being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. The courier was located somewhere away from bin Laden's hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch him.
> 
> n August 2010, the courier unknowingly led authorities to a compound in the northeast Pakistani town of Abbottabad, where al-Libi had once lived. The walls surrounding the property were as high as 18 feet and topped with barbed wire. Intelligence officials had known about the house for years, but they always suspected that bin Laden would be surrounded by heavily armed security guards. Nobody patrolled the compound in Abbottabad.
> 
> In fact, nobody came or went. And no telephone or Internet lines ran from the compound. The CIA soon believed that bin Laden was hiding in plain sight, in a hideout especially built to go unnoticed. But since bin Laden never traveled and nobody could get onto the compound without passing through two security gates, there was no way to be sure.
> 
> Despite that uncertainty, intelligence officials realized this could represent the best chance ever to get to bin Laden. They decided not to share the information with anyone, including staunch counterterrorism allies such as Britain, Canada and Australia.
> 
> By mid-February, the officials were convinced a "high-value target" was hiding in the compound. President Barack Obama wanted to take action.
> 
> "They were confident and their confidence was growing: 'This is different. This intelligence case is different. What we see in this compound is different than anything we've ever seen before,'" John Brennan, the president's top counterterrorism adviser, said Monday. "I was confident that we had the basis to take action."
> 
> Options were limited. The compound was in a residential neighborhood in a sovereign country. If Obama ordered an airstrike and bin Laden was not in the compound, it would be a huge diplomatic problem. Even if Obama was right, obliterating the compound might make it nearly impossible to confirm bin Laden's death.
> 
> Said Brennan: "The president had to evaluate the strength of that information, and then made what I believe was one of the most gutsiest calls of any president in recent memory."
> 
> Obama tapped two dozen members of the Navy's elite SEAL Team Six to carry out a raid with surgical accuracy.
> 
> Before dawn Monday morning, a pair of helicopters left Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan. The choppers entered Pakistani airspace using sophisticated technology intended to evade that country's radar systems, a U.S. official said.
> 
> Officially, it was a kill-or-capture mission, since the U.S. doesn't kill unarmed people trying to surrender. But it was clear from the beginning that whoever was behind those walls had no intention of surrendering, two U.S. officials said.
> 
> The helicopters lowered into the compound, dropping the SEALs behind the walls. No shots were fired, but shortly after the team hit the ground, one of the helicopters came crashing down and rolled onto its side for reasons the government has yet to explain. None of the SEALs was injured, however, and the mission continued uninterrupted.
> 
> With the CIA and White House monitoring the situation in real time — presumably by live satellite feed or video carried by the SEALs — the team stormed the compound.
> 
> Thanks to sophisticated satellite monitoring, U.S. forces knew they'd likely find bin Laden's family on the second and third floors of one of the buildings on the property, officials said. The SEALs secured the rest of the property first, then proceeded to the the room where bin Laden was hiding. In the ensuing firefight, Brennan said, bin Laden used a woman as a human shield.
> 
> The SEALs killed bin Laden with a bullet to the head.
> 
> Bin Laden's body was immediately identifiable, but the U.S. also conducted DNA testing that identified him with near 100 percent certainty, senior administration officials said. Photo analysis by the CIA, confirmation on site by a woman believed to be bin Laden's wife, and matching physical features such as bin Laden's height all helped confirm the identification. At the White House, there was no doubt.
> 
> "I think the accomplishment that very brave personnel from the United States government were able to realize yesterday is a defining moment in the war against al-Qaida, the war on terrorism, by decapitating the head of the snake known as al-Qaida," Brennan said.
> 
> U.S. forces searched the compound and flew away with documents, hard drives and DVDs that could provide valuable intelligence about al-Qaida, a U.S. official said. The entire operation took about 40 minutes, officials said.
> 
> Bin Laden's body was flown to the USS Carl Vinson in the North Arabian sea, a senior defense official said. There, aboard a U.S. warship, officials conducted a traditional Islamic burial ritual. Bin Laden's body was washed and placed in a white sheet. He was placed in a weighted bag that, after religious remarks by a military officer, was slipped into the sea about 2 a.m. EDT Monday.
> 
> Said the president: "I think we can all agree this is a good day for America."
> 
> ———
> 
> Associated Press writers Kimberly Dozier, Eileen Sullivan and Ben Feller in Washington and Kathy Gannon in Islamabad, Pakistan contributed to this report.


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## vonGarvin

> U.S. forces searched the compound and flew away with documents, hard drives and DVDs that could provide valuable intelligence about al-Qaida, a U.S. official said.



This part, I think, is more important than the killing of OBL.


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## Scott

Technoviking said:
			
		

> This part, I think, is more important than the killing of OBL.



Scott likes this comment.


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## McG

Technoviking said:
			
		

> This part, I think, is more important than the killing of OBL.


Indeed.  Not only will _we_ learn things to find more of the money & leadership, I suspect some of our enemy may become nervous and panicky in knowing that their information may now be in US hands.  Hopefully, this will prompt some of our enemies to make mistakes in acts they believe to be for self-preservation.


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## PuckChaser

I think that information might be akin to decoding Capone's ledgerbook.... could bring down the whole network. They'll be spending too much time running to conduct counter-attacks.


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## vonGarvin

It's like Wikileaks, but in reverse!  ;D


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## FutureInfantryOficer

Can we get out of Afghanistan now?


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## a_majoor

FutureInfantryOfficer said:
			
		

> Can we get out of Afghanistan now?



?????


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## cameron

recceguy said:
			
		

> Well, just heard Obama's speech. I'll leave others to judge. I wanted to invoke Joe Friday. " Just the facts Ma'am"
> 
> He let Pakistan off and it started to sound like an election speech.
> 
> Kudos to the triggerman and the team.



Kudos to the triggerman and the team for sure  however let's not be biased.  I doubt very much you'd be so critical if the speech was by GWB.  The call to use Special Forces instead of an airstrike could not have been an easy one to make.  The Commander-in-Chief considered the pros and cons of the different options and then made what John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counter-terrorism called "One of the gutsiest calls made by a president in recent memory".

I've noticed for a long while now that where some people on milnet.ca are concerned every dumbass decision by Bush Junior is excused but every achievement by Obama is downplayed or ridiculed.  As for his address sounding like an election speech, well he is a politician facing re-election soon.  Do you honestly think that a President Mc. Kain or Palin or Rodham-Clinton would not have tried to score at least some political mileage out of such an historic victory?

Again a great big salute to all the U.S., Canadian, British and other Special Forces and intelligence operatives who work quietly, courageously and often without recognition to make this world safer for all of us.  You're always in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## Scott

"Future Infantry Officer"

Stay in your lane.

Staff


----------



## Scott

cameron said:
			
		

> Kudos to the triggerman and the team for sure  however let's not be biased.  I doubt very much you'd be so critical if the speech was by GWB.  The call to use Special Forces instead of an airstrike could not have been an easy one to make.  The Commander-in-Chief considered the pros and cons of the different options and then made what John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counter-terrorism called "One of the gutsiest calls made by a president in recent memory".
> 
> I've noticed for a long while now that where some people on milnet.ca are concerned every dumbass decision by Bush Junior is excused but every achievement by Obama is downplayed or ridiculed.  As for his address sounding like an election speech, well he is a politician facing re-election soon.  Do you honestly think that a President Mc. Kain or Palin or Rodham-Clinton would not have tried to score at least some political mileage out of such an historic victory?
> 
> Again a great big salute to all the U.S., Canadian, British and other Special Forces and intelligence operatives who work quietly, courageously and often without recognition to make this world safer for all of us.  You're always in my thoughts and prayers.



I know the election threads are locked...is that why you're way off topic with this?

recceguy's point is 100% valid.


----------



## Fatalize

A good achievement, but i'm not sure that parading around celebrating is quite the way to go. Seems no better than what some Islam country crowds did on 9/11 in the streets.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

cameron said:
			
		

> Kudos to the triggerman and the team for sure  however let's not be biased.  I doubt very much you'd be so critical if the speech was by GWB.  The call to use Special Forces instead of an airstrike could not have been an easy one to make.  The Commander-in-Chief considered the pros and cons of the different options and then made what John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counter-terrorism called "One of the gutsiest calls made by a president in recent memory".
> 
> I've noticed for a long while now that where some people on milnet.ca are concerned every dumbass decision by Bush Junior is excused but every achievement by Obama is downplayed or ridiculed.  As for his address sounding like an election speech, well he is a politician facing re-election soon.  Do you honestly think that a President Mc. Kain or Palin or Rodham-Clinton would not have tried to score at least some political mileage out of such an historic victory?
> 
> Again a great big salute to all the U.S., Canadian, British and other Special Forces and intelligence operatives who work quietly, courageously and often without recognition to make this world safer for all of us.  You're always in my thoughts and prayers.



I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to what I think.


----------



## Container

Because they aren't celebrating killing three thousand civilians? Personally its interesting and I dont think it changes anything, but Im not going to judge people for celebrating killing the guy who wounded their country.


----------



## vonGarvin

cameron said:
			
		

> Kudos to the triggerman and the team for sure  however let's not be biased.  I doubt very much you'd be so critical if the speech was by GWB.  The call to use Special Forces instead of an airstrike could not have been an easy one to make.  The Commander-in-Chief considered the pros and cons of the different options and then made what John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counter-terrorism called "One of the gutsiest calls made by a president in recent memory".
> 
> I've noticed for a long while now that where some people on milnet.ca are concerned every dumbass decision by Bush Junior is excused but every achievement by Obama is downplayed or ridiculed.  As for his address sounding like an election speech, well he is a politician facing re-election soon.  Do you honestly think that a President Mc. Kain or Palin or Rodham-Clinton would not have tried to score at least some political mileage out of such an historic victory?
> 
> Again a great big salute to all the U.S., Canadian, British and other Special Forces and intelligence operatives who work quietly, courageously and often without recognition to make this world safer for all of us.  You're always in my thoughts and prayers.


I'm no fan of President Obama.  I acknowledge that he is an excellent orator, and I think that if nothing else, *this* could be his defining moment.

And let's face it, he's an attractive man:








Great day for the Pres, and I congratulate him and everyone involved for getting OBL.


----------



## Sapplicant

Fatalize said:
			
		

> A good achievement, but i'm not sure that parading around celebrating is quite the way to go. Seems no better than what some Islam country crowds did on 9/11 in the streets.



Well, they handled his body with respect and gave him a "proper" burial at sea. Could be worse, they could've de-capitated him and cut his body into pieces, tossing what was left into a shallow grave. Or, drag it through the streets while dismembering it, then hanging what's left from a  bridge after setting fire to it. What more do you want from them?

They (US Citizens) had EVERY right, and reason, to wave the red white and blue loudly and proudly last night. 

You're comparing apples to whaleshit.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I'm no fan of President Obama.  I acknowledge that he is an excellent orator, and I think that if nothing else, *this* could be his defining moment.
> 
> And let's face it, he's an attractive man:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great day for the Pres, and I congratulate him and everyone involved for getting OBL.



It will be good for him that it happened on his watch.  I am pleased for all our neighbours to the south, and for those of us here who care too.  A day to remember.


----------



## 57Chevy

shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

US may have to release photo of Osama bin Laden's body

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world/us-may-have-to-release-photo-of-osama-bin-ladens-body/story-fn8ljm6z-1226048887421#ixzz1LF5ZYc8S

THE United States may have to release photographs of Osama Bin Laden's corpse to smother any claims he survived the special forces raid on his compound in Pakistan. 
US Homeland Security chairman Joseph Lieberman said that unless al-Qaeda chiefs acknowlegde that their leader is dead, some may deny that DNA testing proved the US had killed the right man.

"It may be necessary to release the pictures - as gruesome as they undoubtedly will be, because he's been shot in the head - to quell any doubts that this somehow is a ruse that the American government has carried out," Senator Lieberman said.

Senator Susan Collins, one of the Republican party's senior security experts, agreed that many hardline Islamists "will try to generate this myth that he's alive, and that we missed him somehow, and in order to put that to rest it may be necessary to release some of the pictures".

The warnings came as a photograph broadcast on Pakistani TV purporting to show Bin Laden's corpse was exposed as a fake.

articles continues...


----------



## HavokFour

57Chevy said:
			
		

> shared with provisions of The Copyright Act
> 
> US may have to release photo of Osama bin Laden's body
> 
> Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world/us-may-have-to-release-photo-of-osama-bin-ladens-body/story-fn8ljm6z-1226048887421#ixzz1LF5ZYc8S
> 
> THE United States may have to release photographs of Osama Bin Laden's corpse to smother any claims he survived the special forces raid on his compound in Pakistan.
> US Homeland Security chairman Joseph Lieberman said that unless al-Qaeda chiefs acknowlegde that their leader is dead, some may deny that DNA testing proved the US had killed the right man.
> 
> "It may be necessary to release the pictures - as gruesome as they undoubtedly will be, because he's been shot in the head - to quell any doubts that this somehow is a ruse that the American government has carried out," Senator Lieberman said.
> 
> Senator Susan Collins, one of the Republican party's senior security experts, agreed that many hardline Islamists "will try to generate this myth that he's alive, and that we missed him somehow, and in order to put that to rest it may be necessary to release some of the pictures".
> 
> The warnings came as a photograph broadcast on Pakistani TV purporting to show Bin Laden's corpse was exposed as a fake.
> 
> articles continues...



Good, it should because there is no reason not to. Gore shouldn't even be an issue in it's release, there are far worse things on TV and the internet right now than an international terrorists exploded head.

It's been 10 years, lets end it already.


----------



## 57Chevy

and then there is the other side of the coin.....does it ever really end ?                                 

                                           shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Report of bin Laden’s death spurs questions from conspiracy theorists
Emily Wax, Monday, May 2
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/report-of-bin-ladens-death-spurs-questions-from-conspiracy-theorists/2011/05/02/AF90ZjbF_story.html

While much of America celebrated the dramatic killing of Osama bin Laden, the Sept. 11 conspiracy theorists still had questions. For them and a growing number of skeptics, the plot only thickened. 

Where was bin Laden’s body? Why was the most wanted mujaheddin on Earth buried in an undisclosed location in the northern Arabian Sea? Why was the news announced mere weeks after President Obama’s campaign kickoff and just days after his birth certificate was released? Why so late on a Sunday night?

Within minutes of the news of bin Laden’s funeral at sea, Facebook, Twitter and e-mail lighted up with conspiracy theories from around the globe, asking questions, pointing out discrepancies, motives, counter-motives, coverups and counter -coverups, comparing photos and videos, voice recordings and FBI most-wanted pinup posters. 

“This has not put a single of the 9/11 questions to bed,” said Steven Jones, a retired Brigham Young University physics professor and contributor to the 9/11 Truth Movement. Jones, along with other members of the movement, a loose coalition of people who distrust Washington’s version of the attacks, say the collapse of the twin towers is best explained as controlled demolition.

“As a scientist, I try to look at the evidence I can get,” said Jones. 

It started with the “9/11 truthers,” who, after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. They formed organizations. They held rallies. They filed many Freedom of Information Acts (FOIA) requests. 

They wrote books and studied the physics of the towers crumbling. 

“I don’t know how you can have closure, when there are hundreds of contradictions to the stories that you were told. The story doesn’t end here because we are told bin Laden is dead,” said Mike Berger, who works with 911Truth.org, an organization founded to examine facts around the attack. “We are living in an endless war of trillions of dollars being spent without any responsibility.’’

Alex Jones, a radio personality out of Austin, Tex., who gives voice to the 9/11 Truth Movement, and runs the Web site Infowars.com, sent out a Web headline that screamed, “Red Alert. Inside Sources: Bin Laden Corpse Has Been on Ice for Nearly a Decade.”

The “king of conspiracy,” as he is known by the media, pointed out discrepancies that went instantly viral. He lists FBI officials and counterintelligence leaders from Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan who have said for years that bin Laden was dead. Former Council on Foreign Relations member Steve R. Pieczenik even told Jones on the air in 2002 that bin Laden’s corpse had been dead for months.

“Obama just relaunched his election bid, and nabbing bin Laden is the main kickoff campaign rally. Things aren’t going well. So they are bringing back an old staple. They need a hero. It’s the Orwellian archtypical bearded scary bad guy who is going to get us, so don’t worry, the government got the bad guy,’’ said Jones in a telephone interview after his syndicated self-titled afternoon radio show. “This isn’t Elvis, man. The government lied to us about WMDs.”

But Elvis didn’t die during the Facebook era, when Web pages such as “Osama bin Laden NOT DEAD” go up instantly. “There’s something fishy in the waters where they supposedly dropped him. A picture of him dead wouldn’t have hurt,” reads an entry by one contributor. 

“They saved Che Guevara’s fingertips to prove it was him,” said Ted Goertzel, a professor of psychology at Rutgers University at Camden, N.J., who has written extensively on psychology and terrorism. “But Muslim tradition says you bury the body right away. The issue is, our society goes through a traumatic event of 9/11, and this comes 10 years later, so it’s not timed very well for our national mourning or anger. But the conspiracy reaction is a way of thinking that’s much more common today, and people are accustomed to it because of the Internet. There’s no screening process. People may also be going into an automatic response.”

At different moments in American history, such as after the deaths of Martin Luther King Jr. and President John F. Kennedy, the country becomes more prone to conspiracy theories because there’s so much hurt and anger, said Goertzel.

Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq, who became a symbol of the opposition to the war, went on her Facebook page today to broadcast her theory. 

“I am sorry, but if you believe the newest death of OBL, you’re stupid,” Sheehan writes. “Just think to yourself — they paraded Saddam’s dead sons around to prove they were dead — why do you suppose they hastily buried this version of OBL at sea? This lying, murderous Empire can only exist with your brainwashed consent — just put your flags away and THINK!”


----------



## Fishbone Jones

57 Chevy, that was great!

 :rofl:


----------



## Nemo888

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I'm no fan of President Obama.  I acknowledge that he is an excellent orator, and I think that if nothing else, *this* could be his defining moment.
> 
> And let's face it, he's an attractive man:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great day for the Pres, and I congratulate him and everyone involved for getting OBL.



Bwahahahaha, Eat that The Donald.


----------



## vonGarvin




----------



## OldSolduer

I got one thing to say about Osama Bin Laden getting whacked:


GOOD!!


----------



## 57Chevy

recceguy said:
			
		

> 57 Chevy, that was great!
> 
> :rofl:



Don't worry, I used 'Scutan' Aluminum foil vapour barrier and aluminum foil tape
when I renovated. ;D


*to add photo


----------



## a_majoor

More (legitimate) questions:

http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/05/01/the-end-of-the-trail/



> *The End of the Trail?*
> May 1, 2011 - 10:33 pm - by Richard Fernandez
> 
> Bill Roggio and Bill Ardolino report that Osama Bin Laden was believed killed by a SEAL raiding team which raided a safehouse 30 miles north of Islamabad. The Los Angeles Times says that members of Congress had received advance news of Bin Laden’s death and Dianne Feinstein managed to blurt it out to the press before President Obama’s announcement.
> 
> Members of Congress were briefed on the news by Vice President Joe Biden throughout the weekend, according to a Senate aide. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, related the news to mourners at a memorial service for political consultant Kam Kuwata. Feinstein said Obama was announcing it on TV as she spoke. However, she announced the news well before Obama began to speak.
> 
> The location of Bin Laden’s hide-out and the use of a U.S. raiding team on settled Pakistani territory raises a number of questions. First, has Pakistan been hiding Osama Bin Laden all along? Second, did the U.S. independently discover the location of Bin Laden? Third, was the information shared by some elements of Pakistani intelligence, assuming that his location was known to them, in exchange from some quid pro quo which has not yet been revealed? Or was the discovery of Bin Laden simultaneous, the result of the mutual and cooperative investigation of the ISI and U.S. intelligence?
> 
> If highly placed persons in Pakistan have been instrumental in hiding Bin Laden these ten years, *it suggests that some of the real masterminds of September 11, far from lying dead, are still at large.*
> 
> The chances that Pakistan was wholly innocent were somewhat thrown into doubt by the possible location of the safe house. “President Barack Obama announced that Osama bin Laden had been killed in  Abbottabad.” What must have been the raid was reported on Pakistani media, putting Osama’s safe house very close to the Pakistani Military Academy in a location approximately 34°09′59″N 73°13′42E.
> 
> ABBOTTABAD: Three loud blasts were heard near the Pakistan Military Academy (PMA) Kakul Road late Sunday night and a military helicopter also crashed. Sources told Geo News that heavy firing was heard in the area before the chopper crashed.
> 
> Windowpanes of the nearby buildings and houses were smashed due to the intensity of the blasts, the sources said. Eyewitnesses said first sound of heavy firing was heard and then there was a huge blast. Fire erupted at the scene of the occurrence and according to latest reports police and fire brigade teams were rushing towards the blast scene. Security forces cordoned off the entire area and military helicopters were also hovering over the area.
> 
> Roggio and Ardolino write, “A US intelligence official with knowledge of the raid told The Long War Journal that Pakistan, specifically its Inter-Services Intelligence agency, ‘could not be trusted’ with operational details of the raid.” But once the raid was underway Sunday Pakistani time, some minimum level of cooperation with the Pakistani authorities must have been in place both to keep the cover story going and to ensure that there were no clashes with local Pakistani forces.
> 
> Yet it seems inconceivable that Bin Laden’s hideout could have been constructed without the knowledge of at least some Pakistani officials. According to Bob Hennelly, quoting White House officials, the hideout was custom built for the most famous fugitive on earth in an area favored by retired Pakistani military officers.
> 
> Bin Laden was killed during a 40-minute raid at an elaborate compound in a secluded portion of Abbotobad, 35 miles north of Islamabad in Pakistan.
> 
> The three-story structure — believed by White House officials to be custom built for Bin Laden in 2005 — had no phone or Internet service and was surrounded by a perimeter with 12- and 18-foot high wall with barbed wire. It also had security gates.
> 
> Three families were residing in the home that was valued at $1 million dollars. The town is also a place where former Pakistani Army officers like to retire.
> 
> In light of these circumstances, the billions of dollars the Pakistani government has received in foreign aid and the expressions of friendship and willingness to cooperate in the War on Terror seem somewhat hypocritical to say the least. Of particular interest is the role of  Pervez Musharraf, who was president of Pakistan from 2001 to 2008. What did they know about September 11 and when did they know it?
> 
> Ironically the circumstances surrounding the death of Osama Bin Laden tends to confirm the theory that terrorism, rather than being a spontaneous meme that floats above the planet, is in fact deeply rooted in the intelligence agencies and regimes of certain states. Thus, neither Hamas nor Hezbollah are creations of some kind of rage any more than than September 11 was wholly the result of some kind of amorphous resentment. Osama Bin Laden had backers; people with uniforms, ranks and the resources of bureaucracies behind them. Those who believe that the War on Terror is nothing but a law enforcement problem must ask themselves whether it is really rather larger than that.


----------



## dangles

Sorry if this is off topic, but it kind of irks me when people just instantly think that the people who are saying that Osama Bin Laden could not be dead are instantly the one's with tinfoil hats. I mean literally all of the information we have right now is a presidential statement and word of mouth [unless something has been released in the past couple of hours]. Is it so wrong for people to not take simple words at face value, especially when the issue is so prolific as this one? Maybe I am biased because I am in University right now for History and Philosophy and we are taught to question the truth and to find answers. By no means am I saying that Osama isn't dead, but I believe that people who hold the opinion that he is not dead are allowed that opinion without ridicule, because as of right now there simply isn't any hard evidence against that fact. 

I mean in general I think when you acknowledge this skeptical opinion as a conspiracy theory it gives the whole idea a negative connotation. Can you really blame people for coming up with these theories when it is human nature to seek the truth that hasn't been provided to them?  Granted, some of these theories are quite extreme, but I think in general for one to question this situation they are only doing what most of us have been taught to do. I accept that this opinion may not be well received, but if someone believes I am seriously wrong to think this then please lay out a logical argument instead of a flame.


----------



## RememberanceDay

Wow... Epic timing! I had a poetry reading today to go to, and one of my poems (slam) was on 9/11!


(Here it is... 911)
Left alone
Left here to die
Can’t you even hear my cry?

The flames lick my skin
But it’s too risky for you to come in
The tower starts to crumble
I’m bleeding from my head
I wish that I am hallucinating
And lying safe in my bed

Who had done this to us
In a nation so strong

My colleague’s screams sound, ringing like gongs
The dying cry for help
The stench of burning flesh fills the air
What had hit us?
Why did we deserve this?
A nation so strong

The flames come closer
My skin starts to burn
My eyes tear up

Heroes are dying
Bodies are lying scattered across the floor
I sink into blackness
Then I am no more

A nation so strong
Had fallen to its knees
What had happened
On that September day

Families cry for truth
Like warriors for blood
People talk of government threats
Others talk of terrorists
All agree that it was a tragedy

What had happened
To a nation so strong
They fell apart
Crying
Whimpering

A new war was declared
A war against terrorism
Countless lives lost
And even more in war

A single day in history
But in reality, so much more



AND THEY GOT HIM!!! WOOOTTTT!!!!


----------



## OldSolduer

The hats really aren't made of tinfoil, which was found to be not as effective in reflecting the mind probe ray as aluminum foil.

"Tin foil hat" is a holdover from the X files.

Given human nature, I do not beleive the conspiracy theories. That is all they are....theories with NO proof.


----------



## dangles

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> The hats really aren't made of tinfoil, which was found to be not as effective in reflecting the mind probe ray as aluminum foil.
> 
> "Tin foil hat" is a holdover from the X files.
> 
> Given human nature, I do not beleive the conspiracy theories. That is all they are....theories with NO proof.



Haha noted. I'm not going to start a big argument here though, it's a conservative majority, got to celebrate!


----------



## a_majoor

While the strike and results are to be celebrated, it is quite stunning to observe the moral inverson of the Left. Cheney's assasination squad are now heroes, harsh interrogation techniques are OK and so is roaming the globe and violating sovereign states to get at the enemy. Reaity is so hard to deal with sometimes....


----------



## daftandbarmy

The Best Kind of Military Intelligence
Careful preparation, rather than expensive weapons, took out Osama Bin Laden.
By Anne ApplebaumPosted Monday, May 2, 2011, at 8:29 AM ET

The U.S. Air Force, with its extraordinary range and flexibility, is the best in the world. The U.S. Navy, with its vast aircraft carriers and global reach, has no real rivals. In technological sophistication and sheer firepower, the American military doesn't even have any close competitors, and no wonder: The U.S. government spends more on its military forces than the governments of China, Russia, France, Britain, Japan, and Germany combined. 

Yet it was not our sheer military or technological strength that finally finished off Osama Bin Laden on Sunday; it was human intelligence, careful preparation, and patience. We don't know the whole story yet, and we might not hear it for some time. But according to first reports, an intelligence tip-off led U.S. analysts to Bin Laden's trusted courier; observation of the courier then led special forces to Bin Laden's compound, which has now been under surveillance for many months. 

In other words, the killing of Osama Bin Laden did not take place in a hail of bombs and bullets, or after a shoot-out involving hundreds of troops. It was the result of careful preparation, followed by the competent execution of a plan. We missed him during the chaotic storming of Tora Bora. We caught him while he was at home in bed. Apparently the whole operation took 40 minutes, and no Americans were killed. 

http://www.slate.com/id/2292689/


----------



## The Bread Guy

Found out about this via text message while visiting relatives in Italy - congrats to ALL involved.


----------



## Cdnleaf

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Given human nature, I do not believe the conspiracy theories. That is all they are....theories with NO proof.



Ran into someone yesterday espousing the same / it takes all kinds  :facepalm:  I'm really happy with this action / brilliantly executed operation.  A coupled with being mindful of the 24 Canadians killed in the WTC, 155 KIA and approximately 2000 wounded in action including non-battle injuries.  My thoughts today are with all of us; family, friends, serving/retired that have been affected by the course perpetuated by this now-dead individual.  Also with a hope that we remain committed to making things right.  All the best.


----------



## mariomike

“The nation’s fire fighters and paramedics are grateful to President Obama, our intelligence agencies and the U.S. military forces, including the Navy SEALS who carried out the mission, for providing some peace to the families of those who died in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
We will always remember the 343 members of the FDNY who lost their lives responding that day and continue to think of and assist those still suffering the incredible health effects from working at Ground Zero and the Pentagon. We will never forget their sacrifice. This is a proud moment for America.”:
http://www.iaff.org/Comm/Press/11Press/BinLaden050211.pdf

"God bless the members of FDNY-EMS and remember all those members of EMS killed on 9-11":
http://www.fdnyemswebsite.com/Page13.html

Edit to add:
"I encourage every firefighter and EMS responder to be cautious and really pay attention," he said, noting that retaliation is very possible. "They really need to be aware for anything out of the ordinary."
Acting U.S. Fire Administrator Glenn Gaines


----------



## Redeye

Sapplicant said:
			
		

> When I read about his body being handled in accordance with Muslim tradition, my initial reaction was a bit mixed. Then, when I thought rationally about it, that's just another reason we're better than "them". I'm sure that Daniel Pearl's body was handled in accrodance with ?Jewish? tradition.  :



In fact, I have to wonder if the whole thing was well documented.  Releasing that video would probably be a great PR move for the US in the Islamic world.


----------



## 57Chevy

shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Computer experts warn of bin Laden malware scams
Agence France-PresseMay 3, 2011 
http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/story.html?id=4718177#ixzz1LJ7mbCkh

WASHINGTON - Computer security experts warned on Monday that online scammers have already started to exploit the death of Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden to spread malware.

"Watch out for the links you’re likely to come across in email or on social networking sites offering you additional coverage of this newsworthy event," Paul Ducklin of computer security firm Sophos said in a blog post.

"Many of the links you see will be perfectly legitimate links," Ducklin said. "But at least some are almost certain to be dodgy links, deliberately distributed to trick you into hostile Internet territory."

By late Monday, researchers at US computer security firm McAfee were seeing email messages as well as updates at social network Facebook and microblogging service Twitter baited with promises of pictures or news of bin Laden.

"I suppose this was just inevitable," David Marcus of McAfee said in an online message.

"The reported death of Osama bin Laden is just too good a lure for cybercriminals and scammers to pass up."

Cyber crooks were using "expected lures" in messages to dupe people into clicking on links booby-trapped with malicious software designed to steal data from or take control of infected computers, according to Marcus.

Ploys included a bogus promise of a look at a video debunking reports of his killing by showing the 9/11 mastermind holding up a newspaper with today’s date, McAfee reported.

Another trick was to promise graphic pictures of bin Laden’s corpse.

Mike Lennon of SecurityWeek said cybercriminals "typically use very attractive headlines to encourage users to click links and direct them to malware infected Web pages."

"Links are already beginning to spread across Facebook, similar to what happened following news of the recent earthquake in Japan," Lennon said.

"Users should be cautious of spam containing links to photos, videos and other information that sounds remarkably interesting on bin Laden’s death.

"Users also need to be cautious of tweets through Twitter, and Facebook posts, as cybercriminals gear up to attract unsuspecting traffic to spread malware," he continued.

Cybercriminals frequently use high-profile news events in a bid to entrap unsuspecting victims.


----------



## Journeyman

_al Jazeera_ has an interesting take on it....


> *Osama's death 'a good career move'?  *
> Al-Qaeda's leader might appear to have died with a bang, but he had long since died with a whimper.
> Robert Grenier
> 
> For Osama bin Laden, violent death must have come as a blessing. It has given him, at least fleetingly, a seeming prominence that in fact had long since ebbed away, not only in the Muslim world, but even within al-Qaeda itself.
> 
> To many in the US, for whom bin Laden's demise is indeed an important event, president Barack Obama's announcement represents long-delayed justice for the victims of the September 11, 2001 attacks and the fulfillment of a long-standing promise from two quite different US presidents. But in the Muslim world, where bin Laden and the movement he spawned produced the vast majority of their victims, the enigmatic Saudi's passing represents something quite different.
> 
> One supposes that for bin Laden, if he had any clear conception of his place in the world nearly 10 years after the attack which brought him to global prominence, life must have become unbearable. For the violent extremists whom bin Laden has sponsored and encouraged, it is a mark of pride that they seek death for what they believe. And even for those among them who hide in the shadows, it is with the conviction that they live today to strike at their enemies tomorrow.
> 
> But for bin Laden, who might well have met martyrdom with many of his followers at Tora Bora, such was his megalomaniacal conception of his importance that he believed his greatest contribution to the movement would be to ensure his own survival, even as those around him were martyred for the cause.
> 
> Consider, then, what it must have been like for such an ego to fade into functional obscurity. As he was reduced to issuing occasional audio tapes of increasing irrelevance, even the core of the organisation he founded learned to live without him. And the scattered little groups around the globe which had appropriated the al-Qaeda name in fact had little connection to bin Laden's organisation, and still less to bin Laden himself.


Complete article at LINK


----------



## JB 11 11

Redeye said:
			
		

> In fact, I have to wonder if the whole thing was well documented.  Releasing that video would probably be a great PR move for the US in the Islamic world.



Assuming that they did actually abide by Islamic traditions.... part of me would not be surprised if they simply kicked his body over the side of the ship followed by a few colourfull comments regarding his love for pork products


----------



## a_majoor

The narrative keeps changing. Now it seems there is some sort of power struggle to claim credit for the strike for whatever domestic political advantage it can gain:

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/05/03/leon-panetta-not-obama-issued-order-to-kill-bin-laden/



> *Leon Panetta, not Obama, issued order to kill bin Laden?*
> 
> Was it Leon Panetta – not a waffling Barack Obama, supported in his indecision by Valerie Jarett – who finally ordered the assassination of bin Laden. We don’t know the truth of this. We weren’t there. But a “White House insider” quoted on Socybrty says the following:
> 
> Q: You stated that President Obama was “overruled” by military/intelligence officials regarding the decision to send in military specialists into the Osama Bin Laden compound. Was that accurate?
> 
> A: I was told – in these exact terms, “we overruled him.” (Obama) I have since followed up and received further details on exactly what that meant, as well as the specifics of how Leon Panetta worked around the president’s “persistent hesitation to act.” There appears NOT to have been an outright overruling of any specific position by President Obama, simply because there was no specific position from the president to do so. President Obama was, in this case, as in all others, working as an absentee president.
> 
> I was correct in stating there had been a push to invade the compound for several weeks if not months, primarily led by Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, David Petraeus, and Jim Clapper. The primary opposition to this plan originated from Valerie Jarrett, and it was her opposition that was enough to create uncertainty within President Obama. Obama would meet with various components of the pro-invasion faction, almost always with Jarrett present, and then often fail to indicate his position. This situation continued for some time, though the division between Jarrett/Obama and the rest intensified more recently, most notably from Hillary Clinton. She was livid over the president’s failure to act, and her office began a campaign of anonymous leaks to the media indicating such. As for Jarrett, her concern rested on two primary fronts. One, that the military action could fail and harm the president’s already weakened standing with both the American public and the world. Second, that the attack would be viewed as an act of aggression against Muslims, and further destabilize conditions in the Middle East.
> 
> There’s more of this astounding report at the link. Who knows? But it would account for why this took so long to happen.
> 
> h/t Webutante



This is sort of like a Bob Woodward story about infighting in the Bush White House. I would wonder when/if there will be any independent accounts backing this up/denying this story, or just a morass of accounts with different spins.


----------



## 57Chevy

shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

U.S. won't release photos of bin Laden, says Obama
Sheldon Alberts, Washington Correspondent, Postmedia NewsMay 4, 2011 
http://www.canada.com/news/release+photos+Laden+says+Obama/4726053/story.html#ixzz1LPZyOfc4

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama has decided not to release the death photos of Osama bin Laden, rejecting arguments that the United States needed to offer definitive proof the al-Qaida leader was indeed killed in a weekend raid by Navy SEALs.

Obama revealed his decision to CBS News in an interview taped with the current affairs program 60 Minutes, the network said on Twitter.

In concluding the photographs should remain classified, Obama sided with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who both counseled that releasing pictures of bin Laden could create a backlash against America in the Muslim world.

The president's decision comes just hours after CIA director Leon Panetta told U.S. media it was likely the photos would be released at some time.

"I just think it's important, they know we have it, to release it," Panetta said.

White House press secretary earlier this week described some of the images of bin Laden as "gruesome."

CNN, citing senior administration officials, said one set of photos taken of bin Laden's body upon the Navy SEALs' return to Afghanistan after the secret mission clearly identifies the al-Qaida leader but also shows an "open head wound across both eyes."


----------



## HavokFour

57Chevy said:
			
		

> CNN, citing senior administration officials, said one set of photos taken of bin Laden's body upon the Navy SEALs' return to Afghanistan after the secret mission clearly identifies the al-Qaida leader but also shows an "open head wound across both eyes."



That terrible fake? Come on now CNN...


----------



## jemcgrg

Stacked said:
			
		

> Courtesy of Fox News.
> 
> Yes this is actually what they had displayed.
> 
> I love the news anchors face.



It looks like he is about to giggle


----------



## jemcgrg

This is an interesting birthday present too I suppose


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Great. If the picture is genuine, they've just compromised a Team member  :


----------



## mariomike

"Fake bin Laden photo leads to computer virus":
http://www.newspressnow.com/localnews/27779378/detail.html


----------



## HavokFour

Finally got some pictures of the aftermath. No Bin Laden, but these may be his brother and the courier. Helicopter wreckage included.

*WARNING, GRAPHIC CONTENT. *

[Mod edit to remove link to malicious site]

*Note:  If you followed the link that used to be in this thread, run a virus check on your computer.  You were attacked.*


----------



## HavokFour

Anyone know what kind of chopper it was? The tail looks really odd.










Whats left of the rest of it.


----------



## PuckChaser

HavokFour said:
			
		

> Anyone know what kind of chopper it was? The tail looks really odd.



Army Times has cleared that up: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/


----------



## tomahawk6

Most everyone has seen a dead man. A Pakistani security man took photos of the OBL compound including the bodies of OBL associates. He sold the images to Reuters. Click on through the slides.Panetta admitted today that the White House lost the streaming video feed during the raid for 20-25 minutes.

Graphic warning.

http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound


----------



## a_majoor

From ABC news:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/navy-seals-return-united-states-killing-osama-bin/story?id=13525344



> *Navy SEALs Who Captured, Killed Osama Bin Laden Return to United States*
> 
> By PIERRE THOMAS (@PierreTABC) , MARTHA RADDATZ (@martharaddatz) , JAKE TAPPER (@jaketapper) and JESSICA HOPPER
> May 4, 2011
> 
> The elite Navy SEAL fighters responsible for capturing and killing Osama bin Laden returned to the United States today. Before their return, a trove of information seized by the SEALS arrived at a FBI laboratory.
> The SEALs, members of elite Team Six, arrived at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington, D.C., sources told ABC News.
> 
> The arrival of the military members comes amid news that President Obama will not release photos of Bin Laden's corpse. Obama administration officials believe the photos could pose a national security risk and endanger Americans living in the United States and abroad.
> 
> A trove of information seized in the 40-minute raid that left Bin Laden dead arrived at an FBI laboratory in Quantico, Va., between Monday night and Tuesday, sources told ABC News. At least five computers, 10 hard drives and more than 100 digital media items, including disks, DVDs and thumb drives, traveled more than 7,000 miles to the FBI facility.
> 
> In addition to the digital media and paper documents, the Navy SEALs also took guns and a number of other items from the Abbottabad, Pakistan, compound. Those guns have been checked for fingerprints, which will be run through a huge intelligence database that culls fingerprints from terrorist safe houses and the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> DNA evidence was taken from some of the killed and wounded who were guarding Bin Laden.
> 
> "We want to know who has been there and where else they may have been," one official said.
> 
> Duplicates of this data will be given to a special interagency task force at the CIA's counterterrorism center.
> Of all the equipment that the SEALS took into and out of Bin Laden's sprawling compound in Abbottabad, the one thing they didn't have was a tape measure to help in identifying the terrorist. One SEAL was forced to lie down next to the corpse of Bin Laden to approximate his height, sources told ABC News.
> 
> Bin Laden appeared to be ready to run at any time with money and phone numbers stitched into his clothes when the SEALs found him on an upper floor of his compound.
> 
> Bin Laden's clothing had 500 euros and two phone numbers sewn into it, sources told ABC News. Analysts are tracing those phone numbers and going through each computer seized, running keyword searches using words like "explosives" or "weddings." Weddings is a word often used by al Qaeda to signify a bombing.
> "There's a lot we have to go through, some encryption, some coding. It's in another language. It's in Arabic, so there's a lot to go through before we really find out what we have, but remember small pieces of information can be critically important," said Mike Rogers, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.
> 
> At a briefing on Capitol Hill, Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano said that some of the information seized has already been reviewed by her agency.
> 
> As the material is examined, analysts will look to see if more individuals should be added to the terrorist and no-fly watchlists.
> 
> "The material that was seized will be reviewed by an interagency team -- CIA, Justice, other intelligence agencies and other law enforcement agencies are all contributing people and machines. ... As we glean information from that material we will make appropriate determinations about who would be added to the watchlist and no-fly list," said Attorney General Eric Holder at Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing today.
> 
> Osama bin Laden Unarmed During Raid
> 
> Officials said the No. 1 priority in evaluating the information would be to hunt for sketches and plans for attacks abroad and within the United States that Bin Laden had approved. Second, analysts are hunting for evidence regarding Ayman al-Zawahiri's whereabouts. He is al Qaeda's No. 2 in command and U.S. officials assume that Bin Laden knew where he was and how to contact him.
> 
> "It's our best opportunity for new clues about him," one official said.
> 
> When the 24 SEALs arrived by helicopter to the sprawling million-dollar compound in Abbottabad, intelligence showed only 60 percent to 80 percent certainty that Bin Laden was in the compound.
> "The reality was we could have gone in there and not found Bin Laden at all," said CIA Director Leon Panetta on PBS' Newshour.
> 
> The president and top advisers, including Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, watched the action in real time, likely in night vision from a drone aircraft.
> Panetta was on a corner of the screen explaining to the president and his team what they were seeing.
> 
> Panetta was receiving information from Vice Admiral William McRaven, a former SEAL himself. McRaven was running the operation.
> 
> "He is a stud. ... When things were at their tensest, he just got cooler," said one official about McRaven.
> Things got tense when one of the Blackhawk helicopters stalled, breaking a rotor on the 18-foot walls of the compound. The SEALs switched to plan B and brought in a Chinook helicopter.
> 
> The elite team engaged in a firefight with Bin Laden's two trusted couriers, waking up neighbors.
> "I heard gunfire around 1 a.m.," said Syed Riaz Hussein. "It was followed by a huge blast."
> 
> The SEALs moved to the third floor of the compound where they found Bin Laden. The 9/11 mastermind was unarmed. His young wife charged at the SEALs and was shot in the leg.
> 
> The SEALs worried that Bin Laden might be wearing a suicide vest or have the room booby trapped.
> White House spokesman Jay Carney reaffirmed that killing Bin Laden -- even though he was unarmed -- was lawful.
> 
> "The team had the authority to kill Osama bin Laden unless he offered to surrender, in which case the team was required to accept his surrender if the team could do so safely. The operation was conducted in a manner fully consistent with the laws of war," said Carney at a press conference today.
> 
> Five people died, including Bin Laden's son Khalid. Twelve to 15 others, including women and children, survived the raid. At least two women and two children who survived have been taken to Islamabad.
> The first indication for Obama that Bin Laden had been killed came when a Navy SEAL sent back the coded message to Washington that said simply "Geronimo-E KIA."
> 
> ABC News' Luis Martinez, Nick Schifrin, Habibullah Khan, Brian Ross and Lisa Jones contributed to this report.


----------



## StepDad

Apparently that chopper may be a new top secret STEALTH technology chopper. Special blades make it very low noise as well as stealthy. You can only hear it when it's directly overhead and the noise level is substantially less than a normal chopper. Was HE worth the risk. There is now a chance that stealth technology could fall into Chinese hands.


----------



## MikeL

StepDad said:
			
		

> Apparently that chopper may be a new top secret STEALTH technology chopper. Special blades make it very low noise as well as stealthy. You can only hear it when it's directly overhead and the noise level is substantially less than a normal chopper. Was HE worth the risk. There is now a chance that stealth technology could fall into Chinese hands.



Any source about this possible sealth tech to China?

The helo was BIP'd, and looking at the pics there isn't to much left of it anyways. Is that going to be enough to reverse engineer? Something, I don't know.


----------



## StepDad

My comment about the secrecy of the chopper was based on reports made on CNN very early this AM. Pentagon will apparently not comment on it.


----------



## MikeL

I wasn't referring to the chopper itself, and I've also read the same thing about some new stealth helo.



> Any source about this possible sealth tech to China?


 
was referring to this comment of yours



> There is now a chance that stealth technology could fall into Chinese hands


----------



## a_majoor

There was a very quick thing on the news about the remains of the helicopter being taken by Pakistani authorities to an unknown location. China is a Pakistani ally, so the idea that Chinese experts will be allowed to examine the wreckage and take samples isn't too far fetched.


----------



## StepDad

Apparently India is now also very concerned that Pakistan could acquire that technology. The Indo-Pakistani Kashmir issue is still simmering in the background.


----------



## Redeye

JB 11 11 said:
			
		

> Assuming that they did actually abide by Islamic traditions.... part of me would not be surprised if they simply kicked his body over the side of the ship followed by a few colourfull comments regarding his love for pork products



There's precedent for it with old enemies.  When the US Navy salvaged a Soviet submarine off Hawaii, the remains of some sailors were found aboard, they were given a funeral with full military honours even though they were sworn enemies.  Years later when the story was declassified the video was released to the families.


----------



## Rifleman62

Actually it was the Howard Hughes and the CIA in the Pacific Ocean far from Hawaii. The ship is still (at least a couple of years ago) mothballed in the Reserve Fleet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSF_Explorer

 A few TV programs about this project. One showed the burial film shot at the time.

Interesting info here: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nukevault/ebb305/index.htm

The Moscow Times 	
*
CIA Admits Cold War Salvage of Soviet Nuclear Sub*

The Associated Press - 15 February 2010

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/cia-admits-cold-war-salvage-of-soviet-nuclear-sub/399707.html

WASHINGTON — In 1974, far out in the Pacific, a U.S. ship pretending to be a deep-sea mining vessel fished a sunken Soviet nuclear-armed submarine out of the ocean depths, took what it could of the wreck and made off to Hawaii with its purloined prize.

Now, Washington is owning up to Project Azorian, a brazen mission from the days of high-stakes — and high-seas — Cold War rivalry.

After more than 30 years of refusing to confirm the barest facts of what the world already knew, the CIA has released an internal account of Project Azorian, though with juicy details taken out. The account surfaced Friday at the hands of private researchers from the National Security Archive who used the Freedom of Information Act to achieve the declassification.

The document is a 50-page article quietly published in the fall 1985 edition of Studies in Intelligence, the CIA's in-house journal that outsiders rarely get to see.

In it, the CIA describes in chronological detail a mission of staggering expense and improbable engineering feats that culminated in August 1974 when the Hughes Glomar Explorer retrieved a portion of the submarine, K-129. The eccentric industrialist Howard Hughes lent his name to the project to give the ship cover as a commercial research vessel.

The Americans buried six lost Soviet mariners at sea, after retrieving their bodies in the salvage, and sailed off with a hard-won booty that turned out to be of questionable value.

Despite the declassified article, the greatest mysteries of Project Azorian remain buried five kilometers down and in CIA files: exactly what parts of the sub were retrieved, what intelligence was derived from them and whether the mission was a waste of time and money. Despite the veil over the project, its existence has been known for decades.

"It's a pretty meaty description of the operation from inception to death," said Matthew Aid, the researcher who had been seeking the article since 2007, when he learned of its publication thanks to a footnote he spotted in other documents. "But what's missing in the end is, what did we get for it? The answer is, we still don't know."

Much of the operation on the scene unfolded as Soviet vessels watched and sometimes buzzed the Glomar Explorer with helicopters. The Americans told the Soviets that they were conducting deep-sea mining experiments.

Journalists broke the story in 1975, led by Seymour Hersh, then of The New York Times, and columnist Jack Anderson. The CIA maintained its silence except for declassifying a videotape of the burial of the Soviet seamen that was turned over to President Boris Yeltsin in the early 1990s.

Now the CIA article, written by an unidentified participant in the operation, brings back to life a time of brinkmanship between two nuclear-armed superpowers as they raced to uncover each other's military secrets. That competition ranged from space, across continents, to the ocean depths.

For Washington, that meant sparing no expense to retrieve a mammoth vessel loaded with nuclear arms, codes and Soviet technology.

Yet the disclosed sections of the article hint that not much of value was found, just as long-ago reporting on the episode concluded.

It only claims "intangibly beneficial" results such as a boost in morale among intelligence officers and advances in heavy-lift technology at sea. The author argues that the value in mounting the operation was in proving it could be done — an assertion that does not point to a trove of intelligence.

"Lifting a submarine weighing approximately 1,750 tons from a depth of 16,500 feet [5,029 meters] had never been attempted or accomplished anywhere before," the article says. "A government or organization too timid to undertake calculable risks in pursuit of a proper objective would not be true to itself or to the people it serves."

To researchers, that sounds like bureaucratic justification for a project thought to have cost more than $1.5 billion in today's dollars.

Accounts vary about what was actually brought back. Years later, Russian officials concluded that the CIA recovered at least two nuclear-armed torpedoes, not much of a bounty. In other tellings, most of the vessel broke up and fell back to the ocean floor, yielding little. The article does not settle such questions.

Nor does it say why the submarine is thought to have gone down.

The saga began in March 1968 when K-129, carrying three ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads as well as its torpedoes, sank 2,510 kilometers northwest of Hawaii with all hands lost. It took six years to ready the Glomar Explorer, create a winching system and sail to the wreck.

The CIA article carefully recounts the engineering hurdles of the operation, discloses the fears of the U.S. crew that Soviets would try to land on the Glomar Explorer and confirms that plutonium contamination was found in the salvage, apparently leaking from retrieved torpedoes.

But much else on the salvage is redacted, and the CIA's story ends with the ship going to Hawaii, leaving out what was taken and its significance once investigated back on land.


----------



## a_majoor

The story changes yet again (with disturbing potential):

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/05/05/is-the-obama-administration-setting-up-to-toss-the-seals-under-the-bus/?print=1



> Is the Obama administration setting up to toss the SEALs under the bus?
> 
> Posted By Bryan Preston On May 5, 2011 @ 8:23 am In Politics | 58 Comments
> 
> That is one way, though surely not the only way, to read this story.  The gist: the administration is now admitting that it had no video feed during the most crucial 20-25 minutes of the bin Laden raid. But take note of a detail that’s hanging in the new new new version of events.
> 
> A photograph released by the White House appeared to show the President and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.
> 
> Mr Panetta also told the network that the US Navy Seals made the final decision to kill bin Laden rather than the president.
> 
> In an interview with PBS, Mr Panetta said: “Once those teams went into the compound I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes where we really didn’t know just exactly what was going on. And there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for information.
> 
> “We had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound.”
> 
> Mr Panetta also told the network that the US Navy Seals made the final decision to kill bin Laden rather than the president. (emphasis mine)
> 
> It’s that last line that puts some distance now between the White House and the raid. The WH wasn’t actually watching, and the SEALs made the call to kill. Put that together with the information that came out yesterday about the disposition of the enemy within the compound.
> 
> Several other details from the raid support the narrative that bin Laden felt a certain sense of security in his walled compound in northern Pakistan—there were no guards on site, and he was unarmed when the CIA-led Navy SEALs team dropped in Sunday to capture or kill him.
> 
> The circumstances surrounding his final minutes are still a bit blurry. A senior U.S. official said that while he was unarmed, he appeared to be reaching for a weapon before being fatally shot.
> 
> Other accounts said one of the guards was armed, but the others and bin Laden were not. Of course, we’ll never see the actual order that sent the SEAL team in, so we’ll never know if it truly was a kill order. Most Americans wouldn’t care either way — bin Laden was one of that rare breed of thug who just needs killlin’. But this administration isn’t composed of “most Americans,” it’s composed of people who hold a skeptical view of American power, to say the least. And it’s not as if Obama hasn’t made a habit of throwing anyone and everyone under the bus as soon as they become inconvenient to him. And let’s face it: Obama’s voting base hates the military and has spent the entire war decrying every tactic the military and our intel agencies have used over the course of the war.
> 
> The Obama administration would be making a colossal mistake if it goes anywhere near turning on the SEALs who got bin Laden. But they have been making mistake after mistake since the successful raid. So I’m no longer confident they can manage to dodge making this one. And if your agenda of frittering away American power and influence remains in place, it’s not a mistake at all.
> 
> Plus: The New York Times Magazine suffers from a case of bad timing…and worse judgment.
> 
> Article printed from The PJ Tatler: http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler
> 
> URL to article: http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/05/05/is-the-obama-administration-setting-up-to-toss-the-seals-under-the-bus/


----------



## Jarnhamar

We (US, Nato) always step on our dicks by releasing false statements and trying to cover stuff up initially. Like killing some kids by accident, it took a while for Nato to admit that the insurgents were really 9 and 14 year old kids or whatever.   Osama didn't have a gun so why bother to say he did? Obviously it's gonna come out in the wash that he didn't. Who cares, we killed him because he deserved to die and it makes humanity a better and safer place.  One of the first things you learn in Afghanistan is that just because someone doesn't have an AK pointing at you doesn't mean they are "unarmed".

I'm glad we didn't drop a cruise missle on him.  I'm glad he knew we were coming.  We owed that 25 minutes of fear to the 2,752 souls we lost in the towers and planes used to bring them down, and the fear they suffered leading up to their death.  
Not to forget as well, the hundreds and thousands of other soldiers and civilians who suffered because of Osama's actions.


----------



## PanaEng

Thucydides said:
			
		

> The story changes yet again (with disturbing potential):
> 
> http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/05/05/is-the-obama-administration-setting-up-to-toss-the-seals-under-the-bus/?print=1


That article is pure garbage.

The only ones in the history of the US (as far as I know) that have turned in someone in the intelligence/SO community was the previous administration - for purely political and vindictive purposes.
Obama does represent the majority of Americans - he got elected, didn't he? without the chad fiasco and other manipulations.

CHIMO!


----------



## Rifleman62

Questions, questions, questions!

Do you remember seeing the black & white video of the actual events of Black Hawk Down?  That video was viewed as it happened at the HQ. 

The special DVD issue of the movie has this as a feature. Several TV programs also (Frontline on PBS). I believe the SEALS video would be similar.

So now we have the military experienced deficit Democrat President and his staff supposedly watching the video of the SEALS in action, with a transmission delay of possibly several seconds, a Presidential thought process delay, and a delay to transmit a message to the SEALS if possible. *So what* is the President going to say? "Don't Shoot". 

I believe it was another Democrat President, Clinton, that reportedly has Osama in the sights of a CIA drone, and he said don't shoot. There is video of this.

Remember it was another Democrat President, Johnson and his staff reviewing the targets to Bomb in Vietnam and the missed opportunities?

"...made the call..." implies that "kill" was in the OO.

Who wants a politician looking over their shoulders as you are about to kick in a door? May be the SEALS didn't and "lost contact".

Nobody was armed in the compound? Want to buy beach property?


----------



## Rifleman62

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ambush/

The 3 - Disc Deluxe Edition DVD of Black Hawk Down:

Edition Details:

    Commentary by producer Jerry Bruckheimer and director Ridley Scott, author Mark Bowden and screenwriter Ken Nolan, andTask Force Ranger Veterans
    Theatrical trailer(s), TV spot(s)
     
    The Essence of Combat: Making Black Hawk Down: 1. Getting It Right 2. Crash Course 3. Battlefield Morocco 4. Hymn to the Fallen 5. Digital Warriors 6. After Action Report
    8 deleted & alternate scenes with optional commentary
    Production design archive
    Storyboards with optional commentary
    Ridleygrams with optional commentary
    Jerry Bruckheimer's Black Hawk Down photo album
    Title design explorations with optional commentary
    Photo galleries
    *The History Channel Presents: The True Story of Black Hawk Down*
    *PBS Presents: Frontline: Ambush in Mogadishu*
    Interactive mission map/timeline
    Target building insertion - multi-angle sequence with optional commentary
    Question & Answer Forums: BAFTA (Ridley Scott, Jerry Bruckheimer, Josh Hartnett, Ewen McGregor, Jason Isaaca, Mark Bowden & Tom Matthews), Motion Pictures Editor's Guild (Pietro Scalia), American Cinematheque (Jerry Bruckheimer & Ridley Scott)
    "Gortoz A Ran - J'Attends" music video performed by Denez Prigent & Lisa Gerrard
    Theatrical poster concepts

DVD Release Date: 06/10/03


----------



## Old Sweat

I am not surprised by the "unexplained" loss of communications during the crucial phase of the assault. If I was commanding the assault, the last thing I would want or need is the chain of command second guessing me and interjecting conflicting orders as my troops were fighting their way into the enemy's stronghold. Remember in the takedown of the Somali pirates that authority to execute the rescue was reportedly delayed for several hours because the National Command Authority could not be satisfied that the pirates were in fact presenting a danger to the hostage. This lesson may, repeat may, not have been gone unnoticed by the SOF community.

To my mind, and this is purely a personal assessment, once the decision is taken to mount the operation, authority to resolve it must rest with the on scene commander.

Edit to add: This also provides arm's length involvement for the chain of command, in case one of the links in said chain wishes to duck for cover because of an unfavorable outcome.


----------



## Edward Campbell

Yes, indeed. See turning a blind eye.


----------



## JMesh

From the CBC:



> Al-Qaeda confirms bin Laden's death
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/06/al-qaeda-osama-050611.html
> 
> Al-Qaeda confirmed Friday the killing of Osama bin Laden and warned of retaliation, saying Americans' "happiness will turn to sadness."
> 
> The confirmation came in an Internet statement posted on militant websites, signed by "the general leadership" of al-Qaeda. The announcement opens the way for the group to name a successor to bin Laden. His deputy Ayman al-Zawahri is now the most prominent figure in the group and is a very likely contender to take his place.



More at link


----------



## a_majoor

Intelligence work on the materials found in the compound:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/5/evidence-at-bin-ladens-home-raises-nuclear-concern/print/



> *Evidence at bin Laden’s home raises nuclear concerns*
> Pakistani government links suspected
> 
> A supporter of a Pakistani religious group Jamaat-e-Islami burns a tire during an anti-American rally Friday in Abbottabad, Pakistan. Osama bin Laden was killed by a helicopter-borne U.S. military force on Monday, in a fortress-like compound on the outskirts of Abbottabad. (Associated Press)A supporter of a Pakistani religious group Jamaat-e-Islami burns a tire during an anti-American rally Friday in Abbottabad, Pakistan. Osama bin Laden was killed by a helicopter-borne U.S. military force on Monday, in a fortress-like compound on the outskirts of Abbottabad. (Associated Press)
> 
> By Eli Lake
> 
> The Washington Times
> 
> 9:46 p.m., Thursday, May 5, 2011
> MugshotPakistan army soldiers and a police officer patrol past the house (background) where al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was killed by U.S. forces on Sunday, ending a nearly 10-manhunt after the Sept. 11 attacks on U.S. soil. (Associated Press)
> 
> Intelligence analysts are sifting through phone numbers and email addresses found at Osama bin Laden's compound to determine potential links to Pakistani government and military officials while U.S. officials and analysts raise concerns about the safety of Pakistan's nuclear materials.
> 
> According to three U.S. intelligence officials, the race is on to identify what President Obama's top counterterrorism adviser, John Brennan, has called bin Laden's "support system" inside Pakistan. These sources sought anonymity because they are not authorized to speak to reporters.
> 
> "My concern now is that we cannot exclude the possibility that officers in the Pakistani military and the intelligence service were helping to harbor or aware of the location of bin Laden," said Olli Heinonen, who served as the deputy director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) from 2005 to 2010.
> 
> "What is to say they would not help al Qaeda or other terrorist groups to gain access to sensitive nuclear materials such as highly enriched uranium and plutonium?"
> 
> The U.S. has worried quietly about the infiltration of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and military for years. Those concerns heightened in recent months when the CIA learned that bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad was a stone's throw from Pakistan's military academy.
> 
> Politico first reported this week that CIA Director Leon E. Panetta told members of Congress that bin Laden's clothing had two phone numbers sewn into it at the time of the raid. Those numbers and other contacts found at the compound are key clues in an effort to determine what elements of Pakistan's national security establishment provided support to bin Laden and al Qaeda.
> 
> "I can tell you that concern about al Qaeda and other terrorists' infiltration into the ISI is not new on the part of the Congress or the [George W.] Bush and Obama administrations," said Rep. Steve Rothman, a New Jersey Democrat who serves on two House Appropriations subcommittees that fund defense and foreign aid.
> 
> Mr. Rothman has attended top-secret briefings on the Abbottabad raid and the impact of the raid on Afghanistan and Pakistan.
> 
> "As a matter of course, and for good reason, the materials that were removed from bin Laden's home in Pakistan are being run down for leads that could assist the United States in apprehending individuals or entities who have sought to harm Americans or who have enabled others to harm Americans," he said.
> 
> Another U.S. intelligence official told The Washington Times that other phone numbers and emails were recovered in the raid.
> 
> Mr. Rothman said al Qaeda operatives in 2009 "came within 60 kilometers of what is believed to have been Pakistan's nuclear arsenal," though he could not elaborate on the incident.
> 
> "Two years ago, al Qaeda came close, too close for comfort," Mr. Rothman said. "That resulted ... in new safeguards and new measures taken by the United States and Pakistan and others to minimize any possibility of anyone acquiring the Pakistani nuclear weapons or material."
> 
> Pakistan is neither a member of the IAEA nor a party to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Nonetheless, it has agreed to some IAEA safeguards on its civil nuclear program, but nothing comprehensive.
> 
> Analysts estimate Pakistan to have more than 100 nuclear weapons. The latest estimate by Princeton University's International Panel on Fissile Materials, which takes account of the world's nuclear material, estimates that Pakistan possesses between 1.6 tons and 3.8 tons of weapons-grade uranium and between 132 pounds and 286 pounds of plutonium.
> 
> "Up to now, the Pakistanis have said the nuclear material is under military and ISI control and particularly the plutonium and highly enriched uranium," Mr. Heinonen said. "These are from facilities that are not under IAEA control at all."
> 
> A Feb. 19, 2009, cable from the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad said the nuclear arsenal is "under the control of the secular military, which has implemented extensive physical, personnel and command and control safeguards."
> 
> "Our major concern has not been that an Islamic militant could steal an entire weapon but rather the chance someone working in [Pakistani government] facilities could gradually smuggle enough fissile material out to eventually make a weapon and the vulnerability of weapons in transit," said the cable, which was released Wednesday by the anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks.
> 
> The cable was prepared in anticipation of the February 2009 visit to Washington of Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, who is chief of staff of Pakistan's military. In it, the cable also acknowledged how the ISI and Pakistani army have elements that still support terrorist groups.
> 
> "We need to lay down a clear marker that Pakistan's Army/ISI must stop overt or tacit support for militant proxies. ... We should preface that conversation with an agreement to open a new page in relations; Kayani, who was ISI Chief from 2004-2007, does not want a reckoning with the past," the cable said.
> 
> The details on bin Laden's compound already have led some members of Congress to threaten to cut off military aid to Pakistan, which receives more than $3 billion annually from the U.S.
> 
> Mr. Rothman said he wants to use U.S. military aid to gain more leverage with Pakistan's government.
> 
> "We should continue to use whatever foreign and military aid to Pakistan ... in order to help guide the Pakistanis into creating the kind of stability and cooperation we are looking for from them on a consistent basis," he said.
> 
> © Copyright 2011 The Washington Times, LLC.


----------



## Redeye

PanaEng said:
			
		

> That article is pure garbage.



The source ("Pajamas Media") tells you that before you even waste any time reading it.  Literally everything they produce is garbage.  They make the Weekly World News or Canada Free Press look like a credible news source.  Actually, no.  CFP is worse, but not by much.

The fact that President Obama's headed to Fort Campbell to meet the folks from 160th SOAR who participated to congratulate them before an event for troops recently returned from Afghanistan suggests that in this particular case.  So does the fact that virtually no one in the USA gives a rat's arse whether he was armed or not, they were quite happy that he was killed.  Even some of the most liberal folks I know down there are pretty strongly in agreement.


----------



## vonGarvin

Redeye said:
			
		

> So does the fact that virtually no one in the USA gives a rat's arse whether he was armed or not, they were quite happy that he was killed.  Even some of the most liberal folks I know down there are pretty strongly in agreement.


Would they have been so liberal had GW ordered "the hit?"


----------



## Jammer

I didn't think George Wallace possessed so much power.


----------



## Scott

Jammer said:
			
		

> I didn't think George Wallace possessed so much power.



Shh. Not many outside Army.ca know this...George might not even be aware...best to keep that quiet. Look what happened to the Technoviking once he found out who he really was...


----------



## dapaterson

President Obama presented the unitsd involved with a Presidential Unit Citation today (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/06/osama-bin-laden-raid-firefight.html?ref=rss), five days later.  Compare and contrast this to the Canadian system for timeliness of recognition...


----------



## Redeye

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Would they have been so liberal had GW ordered "the hit?"



As a hypothetical it'll be hard to get a true assessment but I'll put the question out and see what answers I get. In at least a couple of cases, no. It probably would hce helped how history judges Mr. Bush's administration. 

David Frum had interesting point on his site - why does Obama get credit for the success of the raid (success, as evidenced today in his address at Fort Campbell - that he readily deflects)? Simple. Because if it had failed he would have taken the blame. Can't have one without the other. 

I do have to laugh at how major figures on the American right are falling all over themselves to try to make the President out to be someone trying to milk it for political gain. They've been looking like morons doing so, much like the guy who wrote the drivelous PJM piece referred to above. There was no "victory lap" when the President made a solemn visit to Ground Zero and met with families and fire fighters. No gloating, no banners, no flightsuits and aircraft carriers. That is what is impressing me most about the whole thing.


----------



## vonGarvin

Jammer said:
			
		

> I didn't think George Wallace possessed so much power.



:rofl:


----------



## OldSolduer

dapaterson said:
			
		

> President Obama presented the unitsd involved with a Presidential Unit Citation today (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/06/osama-bin-laden-raid-firefight.html?ref=rss), five days later.  Compare and contrast this to the Canadian system for timeliness of recognition...



Six years later but ONLY after the person involved were thoroughly denunciated publicly by the left leaning apologists for terrorism


----------



## Swingline1984

A thought provoking panel discussion on the death of OBL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax5xQWl4BME&feature=player_embedded

Reminds me of some of the discussions on this forum actually  ;D


----------



## a_majoor

An interesting study in contrasts:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/315865.php



> *President Bush's Speech Upon the Capture of Saddam Hussein*
> 
> Commenter "Crusty" had a good idea. He went back and looked at George W. Bush's speech after the capture of Saddam Hussein in order to compare it with Obama's self-aggrandizing "I was practically there, man" speech last Sunday. You know, the one where he used the word "I" like a carpenter uses tenpenny nails. Victor Davis Hanson pulled all the first person references:
> 
> “Tonight, I can report . . . And so shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta . . . I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden . . . I met repeatedly with my national security team . . . I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action. . . . Today, at my direction . . . I’ve made clear . . . Over the years, I’ve repeatedly made clear . . . Tonight, I called President Zardari . . . and my team has also spoken. . .These efforts weigh on me every time I, as Commander-in-Chief . . . Finally, let me say to the families . . . I know that it has, at times, frayed. . . .”
> 
> Compare that with the speech given by George W. Bush on December 14, 2003:
> _
> Good afternoon. Yesterday, December the 13th, at around 8:30 p.m. Baghdad time, United States military forces captured Saddam Hussein alive. He was found near a farmhouse outside the city of Tikrit, in a swift raid conducted without casualties. And now the former dictator of Iraq will face the justice he denied to millions.
> 
> The capture of this man was crucial to the rise of a free Iraq. It marks the end of the road for him, and for all who bullied and killed in his name. For the Baathist holdouts largely responsible for the current violence, there will be no return to the corrupt power and privilege they once held. For the vast majority of Iraqi citizens who wish to live as free men and women, this event brings further assurance that the torture chambers and the secret police are gone forever.
> 
> And this afternoon, I have a message for the Iraqi people: You will not have to fear the rule of Saddam Hussein ever again. All Iraqis who take the side of freedom have taken the winning side. The goals of our coalition are the same as your goals -- sovereignty for your country, dignity for your great culture, and for every Iraqi citizen, the opportunity for a better life.
> 
> In the history of Iraq, a dark and painful era is over. A hopeful day has arrived. All Iraqis can now come together and reject violence and build a new Iraq.
> 
> The success of yesterday's mission is a tribute to our men and women now serving in Iraq. The operation was based on the superb work of intelligence analysts who found the dictator's footprints in a vast country. The operation was carried out with skill and precision by a brave fighting force. Our servicemen and women and our coalition allies have faced many dangers in the hunt for members of the fallen regime, and in their effort to bring hope and freedom to the Iraqi people. Their work continues, and so do the risks. Today, on behalf of the nation, I thank the members of our Armed Forces and I congratulate 'em.
> 
> I also have a message for all Americans: The capture of Saddam Hussein does not mean the end of violence in Iraq. We still face terrorists who would rather go on killing the innocent than accept the rise of liberty in the heart of the Middle East. Such men are a direct threat to the American people, and they will be defeated.
> 
> We've come to this moment through patience and resolve and focused action. And that is our strategy moving forward. The war on terror is a different kind of war, waged capture by capture, cell by cell, and victory by victory. Our security is assured by our perseverance and by our sure belief in the success of liberty. And the United States of America will not relent until this war is won.
> 
> May God bless the people of Iraq, and may God bless America.
> 
> Thank you._
> 
> President Bush's speech is completely outwardly directed. He speaks of the momentous occasion and gives all credit to the military and the intelligence community. There is no attempt to highlight his part in the story. Quite a contrast.


----------



## Infanteer

Redeye said:
			
		

> I do have to laugh at how major figures on the American right are falling all over themselves to try to make the President out to be someone trying to milk it for political gain. They've been looking like morons doing so, much like the guy who wrote the drivelous PJM piece referred to above.



Ditto.  They look like buffoons; worse, they resemble their frequent targets for scorn who use events in these conflicts as ammo for petty political differences and personal antipathy.

The President is doing his job as Commander-in-Chief.  So what if his speechwriter employs a different pronoun.  These guys should just STFU and be glad happy that someone shot bin Laden in the face.


----------



## observor 69

From today's New York Times:

May 7, 2011
Killing Evil Doesn’t Make Us Evil
By MAUREEN DOWD
WASHINGTON 

I don’t want closure. There is no closure after tragedy. 

I want memory, and justice, and revenge. 

When you’re dealing with a mass murderer who bragged about incinerating thousands of Americans and planned to kill countless more, that seems like the only civilized and morally sound response. 

We briefly celebrated one of the few clear-cut military victories we’ve had in a long time, a win that made us feel like Americans again — smart and strong and capable of finding our enemies and striking back at them without getting trapped in multitrillion-dollar Groundhog Day occupations. 

But within days, Naval Seal-gazing shifted to navel-gazing. 

There was the bad comedy of solipsistic Republicans with wounded egos trying to make it about how right they were and whinging that George W. Bush was due more credit. Their attempt to renew the debate about torture is itself torture. 

W. preferred to sulk in his Dallas tent rather than join President Obama at ground zero in a duet that would have certainly united the country. 

Whereas the intelligence work that led to the destruction of Bin Laden was begun in the Bush administration, the cache of schemes taken from Osama’s Pakistan house debunked the fanciful narrative that the Bush crew pushed: that Osama was stuck in a cave unable to communicate, increasingly irrelevant and a mere symbol, rather than operational. Osama, in fact, was at the helm, spending his days whipping up bloody schemes to kill more Americans. 

In another inane debate last week, many voices suggested that decapitating the head of a deadly terrorist network was some sort of injustice. 

Taking offense after Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, said he was “much relieved” at the news of Bin Laden’s death, Kenneth Roth, the executive director of Human Rights Watch, posted the Twitter message: “Ban Ki-moon wrong on Osama bin Laden: It’s not justice for him to be killed even if justified; no trial, conviction.” 

I leave it to subtler minds to parse the distinction between what is just and what is justified. 

When Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, said she was “glad” Bin Laden had been killed, a colleague called such talk “medieval.” 

Christophe Barbier, editor of the centrist French weekly L’Express, warned: “To cry one’s joy in the streets of our cities is to ape the turbaned barbarians who danced the night of Sept. 11.” 

Those who celebrated on Sept. 11 were applauding the slaughter of American innocents. When college kids spontaneously streamed out Sunday night to the White House, ground zero and elsewhere, they were the opposite of bloodthirsty: they were happy that one of the most certifiably evil figures of our time was no more. 

The confused image of Bin Laden as a victim was exacerbated by John Brennan, the Obama national security aide who intemperately presented an inaccurate portrait of what had happened on the third floor in Abbottabad. 

Unlike the president and the Navy Seals, who performed with steely finesse, Brennan was overwrought, exaggerating the narrative to demonize the demon. 

The White House had to backtrack from Brennan’s contentions that Osama was “hiding behind women who were put in front of him as a shield” and that he died after resisting in a firefight. 

It may be that some administration officials have taken Dick Cheney’s belittling so much to heart that they are still reluctant to display effortless macho. Liberal guilt may have its uses, but it should not be wasted on this kill-mission. 

The really insane assumption behind some of the second-guessing is that killing Osama somehow makes us like Osama, as if all killing is the same. 

Only fools or knaves would argue that we could fight Al Qaeda’s violence non-violently. 

President Obama was prepared to take a life not only to avenge American lives already taken but to deter the same killer from taking any more. Aside from Bin Laden’s plotting, his survival and his legend were inspirations for more murder. 

If stealth bombers had dropped dozens of 2,000-pound bombs and wiped out everyone, no one would have been debating whether Osama was armed. The president chose the riskiest option presented to him, but one that spared nearly all the women and children at the compound, and anyone in the vicinity. 

Unlike Osama, the Navy Seals took great care not to harm civilians — they shot Bin Laden’s youngest wife in the leg and carried two young girls out of harm’s way before killing Osama. 

Morally and operationally, this was counterterrorism at its finest. 

We have nothing to apologize for. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/opinion/08dowd.html?src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB


----------



## vonGarvin

Infanteer said:
			
		

> *...someone shot bin Laden in the face.*


I'm all for shooting someone in the face. ;D


----------



## Rifleman62

> W. preferred to sulk in his Dallas tent rather than join President Obama at ground zero in a duet that would have certainly united the country.



Yeah, right.

How many times has Obama gone to Dover AFB???

New York Times, Tor Star the same.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

So, even in death Osama continues to prey on the American Government. They, obviously, miread that his death would bring closure  :


----------



## daftandbarmy

The new OBL cocktail? 

Two shots with a splash of water.


----------



## Rifleman62

I believe it is:

A new cocktail...

*
The Seal Team 6*

GIN laden with 2 shots...and a splash of sea water.

(salt water can be substituted for sea water for inlanders).


----------



## observor 69

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Yeah, right.
> 
> How many times has Obama gone to Dover AFB???
> 
> New York Times, Tor Star the same.



Obama visits Dover air force base

The dramatic image of a president on the tarmac was a portrait not witnessed in years. Former President George W. Bush spent lots of time with grieving military families but never went to Dover to meet the remains coming off the cargo plane. Obama did so with the weight of knowing he may soon send more troops off to war.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/29/obama-heads-to-dover-air-_n_337930.html


----------



## Rifleman62

Well Baden Guy, looks like I asked the wrong question.

Obama visited with all of the WH press corp. Only one of the eighteen families agreed to allow a picture to be taken. 

I guess I am just too cynical.


----------



## Redeye

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> I guess I am just too cynical.



There's your trouble right there.


----------



## medicineman

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I'm all for shooting someone in the face. ;D



Are you sure we're talking abou the same thing  :?   ;D

MM


----------



## 57Chevy

recceguy said:
			
		

> So, even in death Osama continues to prey on the American Government. They, obviously, miread that his death would bring closure  :


                   Shared with provisions of The Copyright Act
Osama bin Laden's last message to U.S.: End support for Israel
Agence France-Presse May 8, 2011
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Osama+Laden+final+message/4747839/story.html

DUBAI - Osama bin Laden warned in his final audio tape recorded before being killed by U.S. Navy SEALs there will be no U.S. security before the Palestinians live in security, an Islamist website reported Sunday.

Addressing U.S. President Barack Obama, he said: "America will not be able to dream of security until we live in security in Palestine. It is unfair that you live in peace while our brothers in Gaza live in insecurity.

"Accordingly, and with the will of God, our attacks will continue against you as long as your support for Israel continues," he warned in a message posted on Shamikh1.net, a conduit for al-Qaida communications.

The founder of al-Qaida said he had tried to send a "message" to the U.S. through Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who tried to detonate a bomb on a Detroit-bound U.S. airliner in December 2009.

"If it were possible to send you messages by way of words, we would not have had to use planes to send them to you," he said.

"So the message we wanted to convey through the plane of our hero, the fighter Umar Farouk, may God be with him, confirms a previous message which had been sent to you by our heroes of Sept. 11," he said in a clear reference to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks against the U.S.

The audio recording, lasting one minute and two seconds, had no reference to the recent popular Arab uprising.

However, jihadists had said the tape, made a week before bin Laden's death, would have a message for the Arab Spring.

Another branch of the terror network, al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), gave bin Laden credit for the popular Arab revolutions and asked followers to turn their "grief into action" against the West.

"Do not cry for him. ... Instead rise and go on his path. ... Rise and thwart the American Zionist Western unjust aggression with all of your power and energy," the AQIM said in a statement.

"These events that are storming through the Arab region are only a fruit among the fruits of jihad in which the Sheikh (bin Laden) had a prominent role," the AQIM said.

After an initial reluctance, al-Qaida on Friday confirmed the death of their leader and warned that those rejoicing his killing would have their "blood mixed with tears" and vowed the jihadist network would live on.

However, Obama, to whom bin Laden addressed his final message, has already swept aside the militants' defiant reaction and pledged the U.S. would crush what was left of the terror network.

"We have cut off their head and we will ultimately defeat them," Obama said on Friday after meeting in private with the special forces personnel that raided bin Laden's hideout in Pakistan on Monday and killed him.

Three days after bin Laden's killing, a U.S. drone targeted a U.S.-Yemeni cleric and terror suspect Anwar al-Awlaqi in Yemen, but the man narrowly escaped.

Thursday's strike in Yemen's Shabwa province, an al-Qaida stronghold, is the first reported U.S. targeting of other key figures in the terror network after a stealthy commando raid killed bin Laden.

It is not clear if Awlaqi was targeted following information the U.S. had said it gathered from bin Laden's hideout near the Pakistan capital Islamabad.

Photo:
"Our attacks will continue against you as long as your support for Israel continues," Osama bin Laden warned the U.S. in his final audio message, believed to have been recorded about a week before the al-Qaida chief was killed in a raid by U.S. Navy SEALs.
Photograph by: Department of Defense, handout


----------



## Rifleman62

> There's your trouble right there.



Come on Redeye, your trouble is that you really believe all that left wing trash you read and hear.

Read some right wing "stuff'" and get enlightened!!


----------



## Redeye

Technoviking said:
			
		

> Would they have been so liberal had GW ordered "the hit?"



I did a non-scientific poll on this for you, TV  - I tossed this question out on Twitter expecting several of my more "liberal" American friends would reply, and they did.  The consensus was that it didn't matter who was in charge, they were happy.  Even those who found the concept of an extrajudicial killing distasteful basically consoled themselves that he was a combatant in an active war, and ultimately, given the atrocities committed in his name they were okay with whatever fate he met.

Their distaste for Bush has a lot more to do the trainwreck state of the American economy much of his administration, and the war in Iraq in particular.


----------



## Old Sweat

The only part of the affair that bothers me is the tendency of politicians of any stripe to take the credit for all the hard, unglamorous work by the intelligence, special operations and main line military communities that lead to the long overdue demise of OBL.


----------



## Redeye

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Come on Redeye, your trouble is that you really believe all that left wing trash you read and hear.
> 
> Read some right wing "stuff'" and get enlightened!!



I do read right wing stuff.  And stuff from all over the poltical spectrum and the world.  The problem with right wing trash, particularly that of American origin, is that it smacks of reactionary nonsense, and generally speaking is predicated on assuming the worst about their opponents.  For example, the right was all outraged about President Obama going to Ground Zero, claiming he was going to do some kind of "victory lap" or somehow disrespect the victims.  Of course, he in absolutely no way did so.  That kind of thing is common.  Just the other day Michelle Malkin had to walk back on some ridiculous claim she'd made.

Actually, one of my favourite right wing commenters to read is David Frum, because he's one of the few people left on the right who aren't complete morons, and generally he and I agree on a lot of things.

There's people like the above problem on the left, too, of course, but they seem to be fewer and further between, mainly because it seems like they'll wait until they have more fact and give consideration to things before they actually publish anything.

(edited to fix a glaring spelling error)


----------



## Fishbone Jones

What bothers me, is the fact, that nothing has changed. Other than the fact we had a pretty good idea of his modus operandae, how he ran his network, how he contacted people, where he got his money, etc, etc, etc. Now we're basically back to square one, once we figure out who has taken over.

The only thing that _seemed to have_ changed with OSB was the broad spectrum of "Islam must take over the civilised world" to "Refute your support for Israel". Of coarse, we know, that the minute we did that the next demand would come.

There is no dealing or appeasement that will stop the terrorists. Look at Northern Ireland. Finally, somewhat of a peace was reached with the IRA, and now splinter groups have taken up the flag and are starting to kill people again.

Can we run around the world, legally arrest people that we know are guilty, while they are protected by people like the ISI of Pakistan? No. Can we reach a consensus amongst peace loving countries to kill these people on the spot when found? Maybe.

Possibly, when they realize that their life is to become forfeit, at the most inopportune times, maybe the amount of "freedom fighters" will diminish. It will never disappear, but when the majority of the worlds population feels they are a liability, it'll be easier to find and kill them.


----------



## Redeye

That's really just it.  Killing OBL was a symbolic victory, but ultimately it won't really do anything.  Strategically, his death changes nothing.

The thing I'd think, though, is that the best way to actually route terrorism is see that there's alternatives.  When people are poor, lack education, and don't see much of an economic future, it is far easier to indoctrinate them into extremist.  Even in Northern Ireland, the perceived economic disadvantages of the Catholics provided an easy means by which to persuade people of the importance of the of the Republican cause. 

Of course, how to accomplish this, I'm not sure.



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> What bothers me, is the fact, that nothing has changed. Other than the fact we had a pretty good idea of his modus operandae, how he ran his network, how he contacted people, where he got his money, etc, etc, etc. Now we're basically back to square one, once we figure out who has taken over.
> 
> The only thing that _seemed to have_ changed with OSB was the broad spectrum of "Islam must take over the civilised world" to "Refute your support for Israel". Of coarse, we know, that the minute we did that the next demand would come.
> 
> There is no dealing or appeasement that will stop the terrorists. Look at Northern Ireland. Finally, somewhat of a peace was reached with the IRA, and now splinter groups have taken up the flag and are starting to kill people again.
> 
> Can we run around the world, legally arrest people that we know are guilty, while they are protected by people like the ISI of Pakistan? No. Can we reach a consensus amongst peace loving countries to kill these people on the spot when found? Maybe.
> 
> Possibly, when they realize that their life is to become forfeit, at the most inopportune times, maybe the amount of "freedom fighters" will diminish. It will never disappear, but when the majority of the worlds population feels they are a liability, it'll be easier to find and kill them.


----------



## jeffb

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> The only part of the affair that bothers me is the tendency of politicians of any stripe to take the credit for all the hard, unglamorous work by the intelligence, special operations and main line military communities that lead to the long overdue demise of OBL.



I don't know if you saw the actual announcement by Obama but he actually spent a fair amount of  time praising the hard work of those very people you quoted.  I watched it live and I didn't get any sense that he was taking credit at all.


----------



## Redeye

jeffb said:
			
		

> I don't know if you saw the actual announcement by Obama but he actually spent a fair amount of  time praising the hard work of those very people you quoted.  I watched it live and I didn't get any sense that he was taking credit at all.



Exactly.  His "critics" assumed he'd take credit, but he certainly didn't seem to - he gave quite a good speech at Fort Campbell actually.


----------



## vonGarvin

Redeye said:
			
		

> Exactly.  His "critics" assumed he'd take credit, but he certainly didn't seem to - he gave quite a good speech at Fort Campbell actually.



You may want to wipe your chin....there's some DNA residue there  :


----------



## 57Chevy

Redeye said:
			
		

> That's really just it.  Killing OBL was a symbolic victory, but ultimately it won't really do anything.  Strategically, his death changes nothing.



Agreed, It changes nothing.
It may provide a sort of needed closure to many people, but it will also awaken a harlot of sympathetic sleeper cells.

(from article)


			
				57Chevy said:
			
		

> Another branch of the terror network, al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), gave bin Laden credit for the popular Arab revolutions and asked followers to turn their "grief into action" against the West.



What ? Gave credit for the "popular" Arab revolutions ?.......If those rioters got their hands on OBL they might have tied him to horses and ripped him apart. You branch of fools !!!  Have you not noticed that the majority of the populace have already turned their grief into action by making good riddance of their own corrupt leaders.

Nice try though........ you and your followers had better watch your fannys.....you're next. :nod:


----------



## Redeye

Technoviking said:
			
		

> You may want to wipe your chin....there's some DNA residue there  :



I'm just giving credit where it's due - the speech he gave there heaped praise upon members of the military and their families in particular.  It was well done.

@ 57 Chevy - Awakening sleeper cells may not be so bad if security/intelligence services are vigilant - this may prompt a lot of effort to respond that may actually help identify more of them.  They almost had the guy that run AQAP with a Predator drone three days after OBL was killed, apparently.

I don't think there's much reason to credit him for the "Arab Spring" - just opportunism there trying to attach his name to it - in fact, hopefully it'll show that extremism isn't necessary to through off oppressive yokes.


----------



## The Bread Guy

AFG Taliban's response (screen capture attached):


> The Americans are claiming that their special forces martyred Sheik Osama bin Laden, the founder and leader of Al-qaeda in Pakistan on May 2.They say that they placed his body in the sea after taking custody of it during the raid.
> 
> Americans and other countries that have been waging a crusade against the Islamic Ummah for the past decade and are partners in the occupation of the Islamic lands of Afghanistan and Iraq, once again showed their enmity and spite against Islam by martyring Sheikh Osama and expressing jubilation over his demise. They called his martyrdom a landmark victory of their crusade.
> 
> No doubt, Sheikh Osama was a skyscraper of bravery, a dedicated supporter of the Islamic Ummah and a sword of magnanimity of Muslims against the invading unbelievers. He spent a great part of his life for the defense of the Islamic Ummah, striving to deliver the Muslims lands from the claws of the infidels and gain freedom. He offered unprecedented sacrifices in this cause. He and his steadfast Mujahideen and colleagues struggled tirelessly in the way of independence of the first Qibla of the Muslims ( the Baitul Moqadas), Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq and other Islamic lands which are occupied by the invading infidels. This is to mention a few of the services he rendered in the way of Islam and Jihad. He laid foundation of strongholds of the invincible struggle and Jihad and continued with the task of rearing, training, enlighterening and equipping Mujahideen. The Islamic Ummah will neither forget the struggle of this great Mujahid nor his unwavering stance against falsehood and arrogance in the way of realization of truth.
> 
> The invading Americans and coalition of the crusade should not think that their wicked war against the Islamic Ummah will triumph or weakness will permeate the ranks of Jihad of the Muslims. They should know that, throughout the history, the proud leaders of the Islamic Ummah have left behind a sacred and honorable legacy of Jihadic thoughts and determination to the emerging generations of the Ummah that they will not falter as a result of martyrdom, removal and nomination of personalities.
> 
> As long as the invading infidels are bent on continuing their colonialist ambitions against the Islamic Ummah, until then, every committed son of the Ummah who has wake conscience and feeling will keep on protecting the Islamic values and sovereignty. Therefore, the martyrdom of Sheikh Osama will not benefit the Americans.
> 
> The Americans and their puppets should know from the spirit and tenacity of the operations launched by the Mujahideen in Afghanistan under the name of Badre, which are now in full swing all over the country, particularly, they should know from the steadfastness and persistence of the three-days long operations in the provincial center of Kandahar and adjacent localities, that how superior morale the Mujahideen are having. By now they must have understood that the martyrdom of Sheik Osama has no impact on the Jihadic determination of Mujahideen.
> 
> The Afghans will not forget the sacrifices and struggle of Sheikh Osama, this great patron of Islam, who fought shoulder to shoulder with the Afghans against the former Soviet Union as well as his services in terms of equipping Mujahideen and sponsoring families of the martyrs.
> 
> To end, we strongly believe that the Almighty Allah will open up a vista of light for the Islamic Ummah through the blessings of the pure and sacred blood of Sheikh Osama and other thousands of martyrs.
> 
> Afghanistan and all Islamic countries now under occupation of the infidels will find emancipation and an Islamic reign will usher in, if God willing.


----------



## Scott

Time to bring some humour here.

From Facebook's You Laugh, You Lose.


----------



## HavokFour

*My father's death was criminal and I may sue the U.S.: Bin Laden's son slams Al Qaeda leader's killing*​
Article



> Osama Bin Laden's son has denounced the Al Qaeda leader's killing as 'criminal' and said he reserves the right to take legal action against America.
> 
> The statement apparently made by Omar Bin Laden has appeared on an Islamist website.
> 
> Omar, who is Bin Laden's fourth eldest son, claimed he and the Al Qaeda chief's other children are reserving the right to take legal action in the U.S. and internationally to 'determine the true fate of our vanished father', said the SITE Intelligence Group, an online monitoring service.
> 
> He also branded his father's burial at sea as a 'humiliation' for his family.
> 
> There was no independent confirmation of the authenticity of the letter. It was published on the website of Islamist ideologue Abu Walid al-Masri.
> 
> Several specialists on militant propaganda said the text appeared genuine.
> 
> The news came as it emerged the CIA will allow a select few lawmakers to view the controversial pictures of Osama Bin Laden's corpse.
> 
> The CIA will allow the group to see the photos only if they travel to the agency's headquarters.
> 
> The move came as the White House faced renewed pressure to release the grisly images, following a series of requests filed under the Freedom of Information Act.
> 
> News organisations, public interest groups and even one politician have all lodged official demands with government agencies to see the photographs of Bin Laden's body after he was shot dead last week at the Abbottabad compound in Pakistan.
> 
> President Obama has so far strongly resisted calls to release the pictures as 'proof' of the terror chief's death at the hands of U.S. special forces.



I'd like to hear what he has to say on the 3,000 people his father killed on 9/11. If he actually tries to do this, I pray that the thousands of families that lost someone that day counter-sue his sorry ass into oblivion.


----------



## 57Chevy

In exchange for the release of photos the US should ask for addresses
where all the Al Qaeda henchmen can be reached by Drone  ;D


----------



## vonGarvin

The issue of the legality of bin Laden's killing was on "As it Happens" on CBC Radio last night.  I only heard part of it, but the interviewee pointed out that in armed conflict, the legal issues are such that given that OBL was a declared combatant, the onus was on him (OBL) to remove himself from that conflict.  So, if he raised his arms in surrender, said "don't shoot, I give up" or whatever, then _at that point_ he would cease to be a combatant and would therefore be protected.  Until such time, however, the opposing side in that conflict has every right to kill that person, whether or not they are at that moment in time actively involved in the conflict.  (For example, he could be sleeping, on the toilet, or whatever).


----------



## Jarnhamar

It would have been AWESOME to shoot him in the face while he was on the toilet.
"Hey sorry, he was dropping a bomb!"

I hope his son dies too.


----------



## GAP

Was that not the interview with the prosecutor from the Nuremberg Trials? or was that Canada AM?


----------



## vonGarvin

GAP said:
			
		

> Was that not the interview with the prosecutor from the Nuremberg Trials? or was that Canada AM?


It was the interview after the prosecutor from the Nuremberg Trials.  I had to turn that interview off: my blood was boiling at his logical fallacies and inconsistencies.  When I turned it back on a few moments later, this was the second interview.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Meanwhile, AQ spokespersons say it was already there when Osama moved in  


> A stash of pornography was found in the hideout of Osama bin Laden by the U.S. commandos who killed him, current and former U.S. officials said on Friday.
> 
> The pornography recovered in bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, consists of modern, electronically recorded video and is fairly extensive, according to the officials, who discussed the discovery with Reuters on condition of anonymity.
> 
> The officials said they were not yet sure precisely where in the compound the pornography was discovered or who had been viewing it. Specifically, the officials said they did not know if bin Laden himself had acquired or viewed the materials.
> 
> Reports from Abbottabad have said that bin Laden's compound was cut off from the Internet or other hard-wired communications networks. It is unclear how compound residents would have acquired the pornography ....


More from Reuters here.


----------



## Squirly480

lets see now, how long it takes to get everyone out of there now that he's gone?


----------



## callsign

They should have taken him alive, tried him in court, and then executed him.


----------



## The Bread Guy

callsign said:
			
		

> They should have taken him alive, tried him in court ....


Tried by who?  Where?  Under what procedures?



			
				callsign said:
			
		

> ....  and then executed him.


Ah, so even though we try him in court, you _know_ it would lead to an execution?  Some "court process" there.


----------



## Container

callsign said:
			
		

> They should have taken him alive, tried him in court, and then executed him.



"First a fair trial......THEN we execute him".


----------



## callsign

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Tried by who?  Where?  Under what procedures?
> Ah, so even though we try him in court, you _know_ it would lead to an execution?  Some "court process" there.


Why not tried by the US in New York City and charged with acts of terrorism, murder, etc? I ended my sentence that way based on the assumptions that the death penalty would have been sought as a verdict, that the presiding judge would have granted it, and that eventually he would have been found guilty due to the overwhelming amount of evidence against him.  It would have also brought more closure to the families and friends of those who perished on 9/11.   Timothy McVeigh got a trial, so why shouldn't Osama?  

Whenever feasible, I feel litigation and due process should be afforded out of respect for rule of law.


----------



## Container

Enemy combatant. Just because he was pants down doesnt mean he's out of play. Courts are for criminals- he was an enemy caught by commandos unaware. Short of backup in another country, already amazingly complicated- dragging a 6'7" senior kicking and screaming in an already dirty situation was contingent on his absolute compliance.

"Hands up get on the floor"

anything other than immediate compliance- "plink plink", slight pause, "plink".

Not to mention- tried in the US suffering years of his lawyers arguing the legality of his capture, and courts taking years to determine what court has jurisdiction, all the while he is free to make ridiculous comments and be given a platform. Then he dies of natural causes in jail. 

I like the temporary feeling in every terrorists stomach that any bump in the night could be SEALs arriving to collect what they owe. Much better display of strength than watching our system fail us.

Also- what proof do you have that Timothy McVeighs victims got any closure? The only victim closure I've ever seen is relief that the process is over.


----------



## jwtg

callsign said:
			
		

> They should have taken him alive, tried him in court, and then executed him.



Oh the irony.


----------



## jwtg

callsign said:
			
		

> Why not tried by the US in New York City and charged with acts of terrorism, murder, etc? I ended my sentence that way based on the assumptions that the death penalty would have been sought as a verdict, that the presiding judge would have granted it, and that eventually he would have been found guilty due to the overwhelming amount of evidence against him.  It would have also brought more closure to the families and friends of those who perished on 9/11.   Timothy McVeigh got a trial, so why shouldn't Osama?
> Whenever feasible, I feel litigation and due process should be afforded out of respect for rule of law.



Ever seen the movie 'SWAT'?

Also, maybe US drones should start sending down handcuffs instead of missiles when they target terrorist leaders.  Due process right?  Not like we're talking about combatants or anything.


----------



## callsign

jwtg said:
			
		

> Ever seen the movie 'SWAT'?
> 
> Also, maybe US drones should start sending down handcuffs instead of missiles when they target terrorist leaders.  Due process right?  Not like we're talking about combatants or anything.


Hey, if they had hit him with a hellfire or two and he got killed, I wouldn't have made that post.  But since they took the time to dispatch a few helicopters full of Navy SEALs into Pakistan and confront him like it's Team America World Police, then why not just toss a flashbang in the room and arrest him?  He clearly wasn't an immediate threat before he was killed.


----------



## Container

callsign said:
			
		

> Hey, if they had hit him with a hellfire or two and he got killed, I wouldn't have made that post.  But since they took the time to dispatch a few helicopters full of Navy SEALs into Pakistan and confront him like it's Team America World Police, then why not just toss a flashbang in the room and arrest him?  He clearly wasn't an immediate threat before he was killed.



Hey look at the guy with no experience in anything say that he was no threat!

Well he would know!

Not knowing anything about ANY of the subject matter, and not even being there, or seeing what happened! 

Flashbangs! HA! You're alright kid.

Hopefully America learned their lesson- Hellfire strike on suspected compound in another country- killing his wives and his kids OKAY

Going in and shooting only some of the people- NOT OKAY If you decide to go to the compound you must arrest and give a show trial before executions! People love good TV!

*edited to include quote so no Ninja edits!*


----------



## Jarnhamar

callsign said:
			
		

> Why not tried by the US in New York City and charged with acts of terrorism, murder, etc? I ended my sentence that way based on the assumptions that the death penalty would have been sought as a verdict, that the presiding judge would have granted it, and that eventually he would have been found guilty due to the overwhelming amount of evidence against him.  It would have also brought more closure to the families and friends of those who perished on 9/11.   Timothy McVeigh got a trial, so why shouldn't Osama?
> 
> Whenever feasible, I feel litigation and due process should be afforded out of respect for rule of law.



We assassinate people all the time. A sneaky sneaky team of seals creeping around someones house or dropping a cruise missile on their heads. (Though usually in the former there is far less collateral damage).
Do we give Mr X who has a hell fire screaming towards him in village #42 a "fair trial"? No.   He isn't a part of our justice system or our nation.  If someone/country doesn't want to embrace our way of life, our laws or rules etc.. That's fine.  We don't have a right to push our laws on to them, how they roll is their business.
But the minute someone threatens our existence it becomes us vs them and since they don't give a shit about our law of due process and all that, it shouldn't apply to them.

Osama didn't deserve a trial, he gave up his status as a human being and didn't deserve to be treated as such.


----------



## jwtg

callsign said:
			
		

> Hey, if they had hit him with a hellfire or two and he got killed, I wouldn't have made that post.  But since they took the time to dispatch a few helicopters full of Navy SEALs into Pakistan and confront him like it's Team America World Police, then why not just toss a flashbang in the room and arrest him?  He clearly wasn't an immediate threat before he was killed.



I'm not as concerned as you are about where the finger was that pulled the trigger.  A SEAL in the room or a UAV pilot/operator sitting miles away- bin Laden chose to enter into violent conflict with the US as a combatant- and the US responded.

At least the SEALs had the decency to use a gun instead of a civilian passenger plane.


----------



## helpup

The moment he chose to use himself as a lightening rod for discontent with the West (see also all things US) Osama.  The moment, he chose to actively instigate attacks against the US (and the West) our little conductor was doing the equivalent of a rain dance.  I wish it could of happened sooner but hey it is lightening.... :bullet:


----------



## Brutus

I was wondering the same thing immediately following his killing - why not capture and try him? The most obvious answer I came up with, and that's not to say it bares any resemblance to reality, is that they didn't want to assume the risk.

Risk of the helocopter getting shot down on the return flight.
Risk of the helocopter having a malfunction and going down.
Risk of unsuccesful conviction.
And to a lesser extent, risk of retaliation for having him in custody on US soil.

In the end, I think it's fairly obvious he was guilty, and that his crimes certainly warrant a swift death, which in the end they were able to facilitate on the spot. Problem solved.


----------



## Container

I think Obama was pretty clear. They were to capture him alive if the situation warranted. The least bit of a curveball - kill him to make sure that in one manner or another the mission was accomplished.

I dont know these particular guys. But I know enough guys like them to know that they spend all day everyday getting ready to accomplish the mission. If the mission went this way its because the situation warranted it. Suggesting anything else is silly- they are PROS not hitmen. They just have the hitman card in their deck.

The only thing I have to say is the same thing I said when Obama gave his statement. "Awesome."


----------



## Old Sweat

Add to that the possibility of not being able to extract a live Osama. He was a senior enemy combatant killed in a raid, just as Heydrich was in the Second World War. Other senior enemy leaders targeted included Yamamoto and Rommel. The former died, the latter escaped because he was not where the British thought he was when the raid was mounted.

For whatever it is worth, one of my thoughts when I first started watching the carnage on 9/11 was "Lord have mercy on whoever did this, because the Americans won't."


----------



## OldSolduer

callsign said:
			
		

> Hey, if they had hit him with a hellfire or two and he got killed, I wouldn't have made that post.  But since they took the time to dispatch a few helicopters full of Navy SEALs into Pakistan and confront him like it's Team America World Police, then why not just toss a flashbang in the room and arrest him?  He clearly wasn't an immediate threat before he was killed.



You've been watching too many Special Forces movies and lawyer TV shows. This isn't an episode of Law and Order with Sam Waterson waxing supreme about due process, nor "The Green Berets".
Osama Bin Laden caused the deaths of over 3000 people, including 24 fellow Canadians. Too freakin bad if we "offend" your sensibilities.

In WWII, the Americans found out Admiral Yamamoto was flying in an unarmed transport aircraft...so they shot it down, killing him. Would that have offended you as well? Maybe they could have forced him to land and arrest him and try him in Pearl Harbour? 

As for your little dig "Team America World Police" maybe you and Carolyn Parish could compare anti American sentiments.


----------



## mariomike

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> In WWII, the Americans found out Admiral Yamamoto was flying in an unarmed transport aircraft...so they shot it down, killing him.



He was a wise man. Educated at Harvard, and generally liked Americans. Although he did not live to see it, he predicted the future in 1939: "Japanese cities, being made of wood and paper, would burn very easily. The Army talks big, but if war came and there were large-scale air raids, there's no telling what would happen."

Edit to add:
Rommel said about the same thing: "... it is no good going on because all we get by going on is to loose another city every night".


----------



## 57Chevy

57Chevy said:
			
		

> .....does it ever really end ?


  ;D

Starting to sound like a lousy sitcom he comes back with another last message.

                                            - shared with provisions of The Copyright Act -

Bin Laden fosters Arab revolt in posthumous message
Agence France-Presse May 19
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Laden+fosters+Arab+revolt+posthumous+message/4808617/story.html#ixzz1MnTfbcEl
WASHINGTON — Al-Qaida has released a message from slain leader Osama bin Laden praising the revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia and urging Muslims to take advantage of a "rare historic opportunity" to rise up, a U.S. monitor said.

The message posted on jihadist forums on Wednesday by al-Qaida's media arm As-Sahab addresses Muslims on the revolutions sweeping the Middle East and North Africa, SITE Intelligence Group said.

Speaking from beyond the grave...........etc etc

read more at link if you care to...


----------



## StepDad

Taking Bin Laden alive was, IMO, the worst thing they could have done. Every Al Queda splinter group in the world would probably be trying to secure a large group of Western nation hostages in order to secure his release.


----------



## callsign

Container said:
			
		

> Hey look at the guy with no experience in anything say that he was no threat!
> 
> Well he would know!
> 
> Not knowing anything about ANY of the subject matter, and not even being there, or seeing what happened!
> 
> Flashbangs! HA! You're alright kid.
> 
> Hopefully America learned their lesson- Hellfire strike on suspected compound in another country- killing his wives and his kids OKAY
> 
> Going in and shooting only some of the people- NOT OKAY If you decide to go to the compound you must arrest and give a show trial before executions! People love good TV!
> 
> *edited to include quote so no Ninja edits!*



A friend of mine was stabbed to death a few years ago. I knew who did it, so I guess I should have killed him right?  Avenge the pain-stricken  grief of his family and friends?    I thought about it to tell you the truth, but then I realized that I would be soon on trial for murder.  Why? *Because we have rule of law here*.  And it worked, the man in question was found guilty of 2nd degree murder, and got 25 years in prison.  A death penalty would have been more comforting, but I'm sure you know the law of the land regarding capital punishment here.

All we did was turn him into a martyr for much of the Islamic world by killing him without due process.   And besides, I'm sure interrogating Osama would have yielded some fruit given the fact that he is a coward.




			
				Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> You've been watching too many Special Forces movies and lawyer TV shows. This isn't an episode of Law and Order with Sam Waterson waxing supreme about due process, nor "The Green Berets".
> Osama Bin Laden caused the deaths of over 3000 people, including 24 fellow Canadians. Too freakin bad if we "offend" your sensibilities.
> 
> In WWII, the Americans found out Admiral Yamamoto was flying in an unarmed transport aircraft...so they shot it down, killing him. Would that have offended you as well? Maybe they could have forced him to land and arrest him and try him in Pearl Harbour?
> 
> As for your little dig "Team America World Police" maybe you and Carolyn Parish could compare anti American sentiments.



I expected more than just ad hominem attacks from you Mr. Seggie.  You sound like exactly my dad when we debate Israeli foreign policy


----------



## Scott

callsign,

Quit trolling. While it might be borderline here it is not so much so in other threads. End it now or go into the warning system.

Staff


----------



## GAP

callsign said:
			
		

> I expected more than just ad hominem attacks from you Mr. Seggie.  You sound like exactly my dad when we debate Israeli foreign policy



Then maybe you should have listened a little closer to what you dad was saying about Israeli foreign policy


----------



## callsign

GAP said:
			
		

> Then maybe you should have listened a little closer to what you dad was saying about Israeli foreign policy



I used to agree with his viewpoints; but then I realized that they were archaic and slightly war mongering.  I got a bit older and started reading on my own, and began forming my own opinions based on a much more holistic perspective.  I partially thank Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein for that.



			
				StepDad said:
			
		

> Taking Bin Laden alive was, IMO, the worst thing they could have done. Every Al Queda splinter group in the world would probably be trying to secure a large group of Western nation hostages in order to secure his release.



You do raise an excellent point. 

Maybe we could have figured out a *better* way to dismantle Al-Qaeda based off the interrogations?  You can't tell me that he didn't have valuable information stored in that evil mind of his. 

Either way, neither of us would be able to predict what would have happened had the SEALs taken him alive.  I got shit on for just saying that it was not absolutely necessary to kill him.  I know for a fact that many other experienced posters on this forum agree with what I have said, but they'll keep their mouths shut to protect their reputation here..


----------



## GAP

Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein ??    :rofl:


That explains the starry eyed views............


----------



## callsign

Scott said:
			
		

> callsign,
> 
> Quit trolling. While it might be borderline here it is not so much so in other threads. End it now or go into the warning system.
> 
> Staff


Scott,

PM inbound.


----------



## Journeyman

callsign said:
			
		

> .....but they'll keep their mouths shut to protect their reputation here.


Ah yes, by not actively calling you on the absence of real-world logic in your posts, the site's 29,570 other registered members _must_ think you're brilliant -- just not heroic, like you, to speak out.
                   :



Thankfully, I stopped reading the equally non-feasible delusions of Chomsky, Finkelstein _et al_ during my undergrad years -- which I read then, only to refute their tirades with their own words and rationale disconnects.


----------



## a_majoor

According to the LOAC, OSB was an enemy combatant, and unless he unambiguously surrendered, the SEALs were perfectly justified in shooting him (especially if he was making moves which could be interpreted as going for a weapon).

The reason a cruise missile wasn't dispatched had to do with the int value of papers, hard drives and other items of int value which could be recovered from the compound. Since none of us were there, speculating about the motives or actions of the SEALs is pointless, we simply don't have the information. 

He's gone and so is a possible rally point for the Al Qeda network, we have a huge amount of new information and demonstrated that no matter how you try to hide the Americans can hunt you down in the end.

Overall a good output.


----------



## jwtg

callsign said:
			
		

> A friend of mine was stabbed to death a few years ago. I knew who did it, so I guess I should have killed him right?  Avenge the pain-stricken  grief of his family and friends?



Entirely incomparable.  I'm willing to bet the offender wasn't a combatant.

War and street crime are different and are thus governed by different laws.

EDIT: Grammar.


----------



## Haggis

callsign said:
			
		

> Either way, neither of us would be able to predict what would have happened had the SEALs taken him alive.  I got crap on for just saying that it was not absolutely necessary to kill him.  *I know for a fact that many other experienced posters on this forum agree with what I have said, but they'll keep their mouths shut to protect their reputation here..*



I'm an experienced poster here and I agree with you that it may not have been absolutely necesarry to kill OBL outright.

But that choice was ultimately left in the hands of seasoned, highly trained professional operators who had a spilit second to make a decision that you can take now years to dissect in front of your keyboard.  I will not second guess them.  And for the myriad of reasons posted already, I think the decision of that one SEAL was the right one at that specific time and place.


----------



## Good2Golf

Container said:
			
		

> ..."Hands up get on the floor"
> 
> anything other than immediate compliance- "plink plink", slight pause, "plink".



Ah...I saw what you did there, Container...nice body armour drills!   :nod:   "Hearts and minds"


----------



## Fishbone Jones

callsign said:
			
		

> I used to agree with his viewpoints; but then I realized that they were archaic and slightly war mongering.  I got a bit older and started reading on my own, and began forming my own opinions based on a much more holistic perspective.  I partially thank Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein for that.
> 
> You do raise an excellent point.
> 
> Maybe we could have figured out a *better* way to dismantle Al-Qaeda based off the interrogations?  You can't tell me that he didn't have valuable information stored in that evil mind of his.
> 
> Either way, neither of us would be able to predict what would have happened had the SEALs taken him alive.  I got shit on for just saying that it was not absolutely necessary to kill him.  I know for a fact that many other experienced posters on this forum agree with what I have said, but they'll keep their mouths shut to protect their reputation here..



I'm not even going to address your reading material, BUT how do you suggest we get that info if we'd taken him alive. Do you think he'd just sit there and say ' OK, that was an honest nick, what do you want to know?"

He would give nothing up willingly. We would've likely had to resort to torture, BUT then you'd be arguing for his rights under the law there instead.

This was not in Canada, our laws amount to squat in this situation. The Laws of Armed Conflict apply, he didn't surrender fast enough and was still perceived as an immediate threat, as a combatant, and got shot in the face for his troubles.

Of course, I'm speculating, because none of us, including you were there to state categorically what happened or how things should have been handled. However if you're going to guess, guess in the world where the sky is blue.

As for your friend, sorry for his demise, but it has absolutely nothing, zero, nada to do with this conversation.

Lanes. We have then for a reason. Cross them carelessly, without checking or knowing your limits and horsepower, and you become a wreck on the internet highway for everyone to stare at as they rubberneck by (and some will laugh, point and giggle while they do).


----------



## StepDad

Further to my point, if he had been taken alive and the Americans would probably have been forced to use some " enhanced interrogation methods" on him to get intel and word ever got out about it, you can imagine what kind of treatment any hostages that Al-Queada took in the future might receive. And I have no doubt that they would broadcast that all over the net.  As well if he died in custody, convincing the world that he died of natural causes would be a public relations nightmare. 

With regard to his surrendering, he had some lead time telling him that they coming for him and who knows what type of device he might have stashed on his person before the Seals got to the third floor.  He might have blown himself and half the Seal  team to kingdom come before he went.


----------



## Hidden Agenda

Thucydides said:
			
		

> The reason a cruise missile wasn't dispatched had to do with the int value of papers, hard drives and other items of int value which could be recovered from the compound.



That, and the fact that they had to make sure it was actually him in that compound (according to the president's interview for CBS' 60 minutes)

--

As for the debate about 'to kill or not to kill', I think it is pointless, at least from the PR side of things. The tinfoil crowd will always find something to doubt or to complain about when it has to do with the actions of the US government (or western interests for that matter). Damned if you do, damned if you don't, and it usually comes from the same people.


----------



## ArmyRick

callsign, 

as far your remark that "many others agree with you but won't say anything because of their reputations". 

1. I don't agree with you at all. Thats One (I am being very honest)

2. Most senior Army.ca members are very opionated and outspoken, do you honetsly think they would clam up? Look at 99% of these threads.

3. Stand by your remark, thats fine and it shows you will not back down in what you beleive BUT don't GUESS that other people are on your side. You may find your the only one on the skins side while everybody else is a shirt, follow me?


----------



## Scott

All,

callsign has been counselled via PM's as to where exactly he ran his argument, and subsequent posts, aground here. He tells me that he's seen the error in his posts and is going to work to improve them. I ask that you give him the chance.

Thanks

Scott
Staff


----------



## Dennis Ruhl

Generals aren't immune from the consequences of war.  Canada has lost a few over time.  It is up to the person wishing to surrender to make it as plain as day.  Evading or pausing isn't a surrender.  From what I read there was a gunfight happening.


----------



## RCR Grunt

Container said:
			
		

> ..."Hands up get on the floor"
> 
> anything other than immediate compliance- "plink plink", slight pause, "plink"...



I like it to think it went more like 2 to 4 sets of "plinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplink........ plinkplink......... plink"

"Clear left"

"Clear right"

"F**k yeah"

That's how it plays in my mind.  Maybe it's just me.


----------



## Container

Anyone's Grunt said:
			
		

> I like it to think it went more like 2 to 4 sets of "plinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplinkplink........ plinkplink......... plink"
> 
> "Clear left"
> 
> "Clear right"
> 
> "F**k yeah"
> 
> That's how it plays in my mind.  Maybe it's just me.



Probably a high five somewhere in there too


----------



## Kat Stevens

Then back to headquarters for debriefing and cocktails.


----------



## Kat Stevens

In other news... I shot Qaddafi last weekend, and dropped him in the Med.  Sorry I didn't take any pictures, batteries on the camera died, and can't remember exactly where I dumped him, but trust me, he's dead.


----------



## Container

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> In other news... I shot Qaddafi last weekend, and dropped him in the Med.  Sorry I didn't take any pictures, batteries on the camera died, and can't remember exactly where I dumped him, but trust me, he's dead.



Sounds legit. Another round of cocktails!


----------



## VIChris

http://terminallance.com/2011/05/03/terminal-lance-geronimo-e-kia/


----------



## vonGarvin

callsign said:
			
		

> *Because we have rule of law here*.



You are 100% correct.  A murder commited contrary to a civil law is punishable by civil laws.  There is also a rule of law for wars.  In this case, Osama bin Laden was an enemy combatant (armed or not) until such time that he surrendered himself to us (his enemy).  It appears that he didn't, therefore, he was legally killed in accordance with the laws of armed conflict, even though at the time of his death he presented no immediate threat.

I would offer that you not blur the line between civil law and the law of armed conflict.  The same laws of armed conflict allowed us to shoot soldiers of the Wehrmacht on sight between 1939 and 1945, whether they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  And the same law allowed members of the Wehrmacht to kill members of the Canadian Forces during the same time frame, whether  they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  This is why members of the Wehrmacht were not tried for warcrimes after the war for killing Canadian Soldiers who hadn't surrendered.   (And it's also the reason why members of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS who killed Canadian Soldiers who HAD surrendered were tried for war crimes)


----------



## Edward Campbell

Technoviking said:
			
		

> You are 100% correct.  A murder commited contrary to a civil law is punishable by civil laws.  There is also a rule of law for wars.  In this case, Osama bin Laden was an enemy combatant (armed or not) until such time that he surrendered himself to us (his enemy).  It appears that he didn't, therefore, he was legally killed in accordance with the laws of armed conflict, even though at the time of his death he presented no immediate threat.
> 
> I would offer that you not blur the line between civil law and the law of armed conflict.  The same laws of armed conflict allowed us to shoot soldiers of the Wehrmacht on sight between 1939 and 1945, whether they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  And the same law allowed members of the Wehrmacht to kill members of the Canadian Forces during the same time frame, whether  they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  This is why members of the Wehrmacht were not tried for warcrimes after the war for killing Canadian Soldiers who hadn't surrendered.   (And it's also the reason why members of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS who killed Canadian Soldiers who HAD surrendered were tried for war crimes)




Thank you, TV for a succinct and very correct explanation of that bit of the laws and usages if war.

Everyone please note the TV's explanation and stop spouting nonsense.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Technoviking said:
			
		

> You are 100% correct.  A murder commited contrary to a civil law is punishable by civil laws.  There is also a rule of law for wars.  In this case, Osama bin Laden was an enemy combatant (armed or not) until such time that he surrendered himself to us (his enemy).  It appears that he didn't, therefore, he was legally killed in accordance with the laws of armed conflict, even though at the time of his death he presented no immediate threat.
> 
> I would offer that you not blur the line between civil law and the law of armed conflict.  The same laws of armed conflict allowed us to shoot soldiers of the Wehrmacht on sight between 1939 and 1945, whether they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  And the same law allowed members of the Wehrmacht to kill members of the Canadian Forces during the same time frame, whether  they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  This is why members of the Wehrmacht were not tried for warcrimes after the war for killing Canadian Soldiers who hadn't surrendered.   (And it's also the reason why members of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS who killed Canadian Soldiers who HAD surrendered were tried for war crimes)



callsign and other like minded individuals please take note.

Milnet.Ca Staff


----------



## Fishbone Jones

callsign has been summed up as noted here already, no need to continue to do so.

TV only reiterated what has been said here more than once already. No need to keep repeating it.

If there is no reason to move on, we can lock this up.

Someone post something relevent, that hasn't already been stated, else we are likely done here.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## callsign

Hey guys,

I apologize for the brash and cocky remarks made in my earlier posts.  I also admit that it was dumb to compare rule of law in civil society versus a situation in armed conflict.  Kudos to Technoviking for his well-written post.  It was not my intention to offend anyone here, and if I did directly offend you, please accept my humble apology.  I do, however, stand by my opinion that it would have been better to take him alive, and in saying that; I shall end my involvement in this thread with this post so that the discussion may continue peacefully.


----------



## HavokFour

*Did a pork-coated bullet kill Bin Laden? Yes, says firm who claim its pig fat gun oil is bought by U.S. military personnel*​
Article



> Was Osama bin Laden shot with a bullet soaked in pork fat, denying him a place in paradise?
> 
> Yes, if one rather shady website, that peddles gun oil containing liquefied pig fat, is to be believed.
> 
> The makers of Silver Bullet Gun Oil claim it contains 13 per cent USDA liquefied pig fat thus making the product 'a highly effective counter-Islamic terrorist force multiplier.'
> 
> The apparent owner of the gun oil site, who goes by the name 'The Midnight Rider,' explains how the pig fat will transfer onto anything the bullet strikes.
> 
> This 'effectively denies entry to Allah's paradise to an Islamo-fascist terrorist,' Rider adds.
> 
> The oil, which costs $8.95 for 4oz, apparently puts the 'fear of death into them (terrorists)'.
> 
> In Islam consumption of pork is forbidden, but the Quran also states that if one is forced to consume the meat then they are guiltless and therefore not disqualified from paradise.
> 
> The website also notes its customers include members of the U.S. military.
> 
> 'Thousands of bottles of Silver Bullet Gun Oil have been distributed since July of 2004 by its creator to members of ALL U.S. Military branches,' it claims.
> 
> A promotional YouTube video for the oil shows a picture of Bin Laden and the claim: 'Killed with a weapon using Silver Bullet Gun Oil'.
> 
> 'Midnite Rider' also known as 'Warrior of YAHWEH,' claims to be a former Marine scout sniper on the site.
> 
> Pictures of the 'production line' show a masked men wearing regulation Marine camouflage uniform, that is officially off-limits for civilians.
> 
> A disclaimer on the website also reads: 'This product is for use on armed Muslim terrorists only.
> 
> 'We do not promote discrimination against any race or religion, only terrorists.'
> 
> A spokesman for the U.S. Army's weapons-procurement command told the Southern Pverty Law Center's Hatewatch - a not-for-profit that monitors the evolving problem of online bigotry - that he was unfamiliar with Silver Bullet, 'though he conceded that a soldier or marine could theoretically purchase the oil on his or her own and use it on the battlefield.'


----------



## Gimpy

HavokFour said:
			
		

> *Did a pork-coated bullet kill Bin Laden? Yes, says firm who claim its pig fat gun oil is bought by U.S. military personnel*​
> Article



Yeah, I would take anything the Daily Mail says with a heaping portion of salt. They produce insane amounts of sensationalistic trash. There are just so many holes and ridiculous statements in that article it would take more time than it deserves to go through this article.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Maybe, but I bet it's a hot topic in every mosque in Britain.


----------



## Hammer Sandwich

Gimpy said:
			
		

> Did a pork-coated bullet kill Bin Laden? Yes, says firm who claim its pig fat gun oil is bought by U.S. military personnel



I welcome the authors of this to go boink themselves.
I have serious doubt that anyone involved with that raid would have done anything to compromise their equipment, (whether that be smothering themselves, their comrades, or their bullets in pork.)

I would like to think the guys on the ground accomplished the mission at hand, and left me to wake up to the beautiful, wonderful news of it.

IMO, any person in that level of professionalism will not taint themselves with dumbass shit like that....


(BTW.....I brought in pulled pork for breakfast at work that day...NOMNOMNOM)


----------



## The Bread Guy

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Maybe, but I bet it's a hot topic in every mosque in Britain.


Not to mention radical online forums that help crank up those already predisposed to be cranked up.

Meanwhile, AQ's HR department may be continuing its "whack a mole" succession planning....


> A top al-Qaida commander and possible replacement for Osama bin Laden was killed in an American drone-fired missile strike close to the Afghan border, a fax from the militant group he heads and a Pakistani intelligence official said Saturday.
> 
> Ilyas Kashmiri's apparent death is another blow to al-Qaida just over a month after bin Laden was killed by American commandos in a northwest Pakistani army town. Described by U.S. officials as al-Qaida's military operations chief in Pakistan, the 47-year-old Pakistani was one of five most-wanted militant leaders in the country, accused of a string of bloody attacks in South Asia, including the 2008 Mumbai massacre, as well as aiding plots in the West. Washington had offered a $5 million bounty for information leading to his location.
> 
> His death was not confirmed publicly by the United States or Pakistani officials. Verifying who has been killed in the drone strikes is difficult. Initial reports have turned out to be wrong in the past, including one in September 2009 that said Kashmiri had been killed. Sometimes they are never formally denied or confirmed by authorities here or in the United States ....


More here.


----------



## Rifleman62

Sign in Alaska


----------



## The Bread Guy

I didn't realize the chopper could hold SOOOO many SEALs...


> Osama bin Laden’s death increased the American public’s love affair with the elite SEALs, unfortunately the number of SEAL fakers has increased as well.
> 
> In fact, there has been such a surge in Americans pretending to be SEALs that Steve Robinson, a Navy SEAL imposter hunter, was forced to come out of retirement.
> 
> “Before I retired I handled 12 to 20 inquiries each day,” Robinson, a retired Navy SEAL who works with the imposter tracking website the P.O.W. Network told the Toronto Star on the phone in Forsyth, Mo. “The morning after the President announced the death of bin Laden … at that point until the beginning of June we were handling 30 to 50 each day.”
> 
> While these emails are only queries about possible impostors, Robinson points to past number to highlight the potential number of fakers ....


Source:  _Toronto Star_


----------



## daftandbarmy

Here's the truth......................

Imagine living with 3 wives in one compound and never leaving the house for 5 years - It is now believed that Bin Laden called the US Navy Seals himself.
 ;D


----------



## toyotatundra

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/8611313/I-wish-I-could-have-pulled-the-trigger-on-bin-Laden.html



> Of the millions of people delighted to see the back of Osama bin Laden, few could have been happier than Howard E Wasdin, a 49-year-old American chiropractor. Not only was the operation carried out by Seal Team Six, the elite special operations unit in which he’d once served, it also took place less than a fortnight before his memoir, Seal Team Six, was due to be published.



A link to the new book:

http://www.amazon.com/SEAL-Team-Six-Memoirs-Sniper/dp/031269945X


----------



## Ridge Runner

I was quite relieved when the news came through that he was indeed killed and dead, however I was not jumping up and down and throwing a big party.  I just quietly remembered 9-11, where I was and my family were, and the sacrifice of many all to get where we are now. I noticed a huge billboard the other day, still up,  along the highway in the city which said 'Osama bin Laden is dead', next line was 'Thank-you US Military Forces'. Plenty of tee-shirts here too, some rather tasteless and vulgar, but some which make the point quite proudly.

I teach school, the 2nd grade, and they even knew (as much as kids this age can comprehend anyways) that something big had happened, hearing things from their moms and dads I would imagine. How does one answer questions in class shy of saying he was a very bad man that is no longer here to be bad anymore.


----------



## Ridge Runner

I wanted to add this tee shirt which I like. This is on the back, the front has a neat  and tidy 'Patriot' symbol from Bill O'Reilly's website if anyone is interested.


----------



## mariomike

Ridge Runner said:
			
		

> I just quietly remembered 9-11, where I was and my family were, and the sacrifice of many all to get where we are now.



I did not see 9-11 on TV until hours after the fact. But, in Toronto, I saw people pouring out of the downtown skyscrapers, the court houses at Old City Hall,  Osgoode Hall, University Ave., the CN Tower, the Eaton Centre. The buildings were evacuated and everyone sent home in the middle of a business day. 
That is something I had never seen before.
It gave city emergency planners an idea of the chaos to expect if an attack were to happen in the financial district.
Although we never trained for it, an airliner - accidentally - crashing into an office tower was always considered the worst case scenario. Prior to 9/11, we used to joke about it sometimes when the bus phone rang. But, I never heard anyone joke about it again.

"On September 11, 2001, the rescuers at the World Trade Center saved over 25,000 lives."
New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani


----------



## Ridge Runner

My Mom still lives in New Jersey, about 25 minutes to Penn Station by train, and I grew up there, in fact went to the same high school as Jason Alexander went to. NYC was always a challenge to go in, and we only went in when company came to see the usual sights. My late Father worked there, as does my brother now. I was to the 9-11 site in May, and it's coming along. If you ever get a chance to go, head to Battery Park to see the 'sphere' scarred by both collapsing towers. Hard to believe it will be 10 years soon.


----------



## mariomike

Here is a picture of Ground Zero and the 9-11 memorial taken on April 25,2010.

"Two large reflecting pools and cascading waterfalls on the site are intended to create a serene environment for quiet contemplation of the lives lost during the terror attacks. They may also be a frustrating reminder there's nowhere to relieve oneself.":
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nowhere_to_go_at_site_QYHA9VcFaaBMuYAiWNDhYO

"Never Forget...To Use The Bathroom Before Visiting The 9/11 Memorial":
http://gothamist.com/2011/05/22/whoops_911_memorial_and_museum_has.php

"Visitors will be provided with information to help plan their visit, including being advised that bathrooms will not be accessible on the site."

"They said there are also no plans to haul porta-potties to the picturesque, tree-filled site for its official debut."


----------



## a_majoor

Long article in the New Yorker on the mechanics of the raid. First draft of History for the interested:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle?currentPage=all


----------



## Recruit_in_Progress

Same unit is in the news again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14435854

Same unit but unlikely to be the same members couldn't imagine the high to low that they are feeling. 



> The US military is trying to confirm whether insurgent fire brought down a helicopter in Afghanistan with the loss of 38 people, most of them Americans.
> 
> The dead included Navy Seals, Afghan commandos, US Air Force personnel, a dog handler, the Chinook crew and a civilian interpreter.
> 
> The 30 US deaths are the largest single American loss of life in the conflict.
> 
> On Sunday another four Nato soldiers were killed in two separate attacks in Afghanistan.
> 
> France has confirmed that two of its soldiers were among the dead - they were killed during an operation in the Tagab valley in Kapisa province, north-east of Kabul, President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said in a statement. Five other French soldiers were injured.
> 
> Nato has not confirmed the nationality of the other two soldiers but said they were killed in an attack in the south.
> 
> Bin Laden unit
> The Chinook helicopter went down in a district of Wardak province, west of Kabul, early on Saturday.
> 
> Officials, witnesses and the Taliban have said it was shot down by insurgents during a combat mission.
> 
> The presence of at least 17 of the Seals has led to speculation that they were involved in a highly significant operation, such as targeting a high-ranking figure in the insurgency.
> 
> US sources have said they were from the same Navy Seal unit, known as Team Six, which killed Osama Bin Laden in May, but are "unlikely" to be the same personnel.
> 
> American officials have refused to confirm the cause of the crash on the record but some have told news agencies they believe the Chinook was shot down.
> 
> Afghan officials in Wardak province said a Taliban rocket hit the craft. A local resident who saw the incident told the BBC that he saw the Chinook catch fire and crash after a rocket hit it.
> 
> The Taliban claimed they shot the helicopter down as it was involved in a raid on a house in Wardak where insurgents were gathering.
> 
> The BBC's Quentin Sommerville in Kabul says it is rare for the Taliban to shoot down aircraft.
> 
> The Taliban say they have modified their rocket-propelled grenades to improve their accuracy but that may not be true, our correspondent says.
> 
> 'Extraordinary sacrifices'
> The top US military officer, Adm Mike Mullen, said it was too soon to say what brought it down.
> 
> "Their deaths are a reminder of the extraordinary sacrifices made by the men and women of our military and their families, including all who have served in Afghanistan," he said in a statement on Saturday.
> 
> The US is relying more on special forces to fight the war against insurgents in Afghanistan, carrying out night raids against key leaders and conducting surveillance operations.
> 
> After last year's increase in troop numbers - credited with some success in reducing Taliban activity in southern Afghanistan - some withdrawals have begun. The goal is for all foreign combat forces to leave the country by the end of 2014.
> 
> There are currently about 140,000 foreign troops - about 100,000 of them American - in Afghanistan, fighting the Taliban insurgency and training local troops to take over security.
> 
> The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force has begun the process of handing over control of security in some areas to local forces. Bamiyan became the first province to pass to Afghan control in mid-July.


----------



## a_majoor

Film makers jumping on the bandwagon, with a few interesting twists. I frankly don't think this movie will have the intended effect (the election will revolve around the economy, and the killer line "Are you better off today then you were four years ago?" will be drawn like Excalubar from the stone to smite the Democrats at every level):

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-curious-case-of-the-osama-obama-movie-hollywood-—-but-not-politics-—-as-usual/?singlepage=true



> *The Curious Case of the Osama-Obama Movie: Hollywood — But Not Politics — As Usual*
> Pace Ben Smith of Politico, why the proposed Kathryn Bigelow-Mark Boal motion picture on the capture of Bin Laden is a quiet outrage.
> August 12, 2011 - 12:01 am - by Lionel Chetwynd
> 
> 
> Before alienating a significant portion of my professional colleagues and possibly irritating Sony Pictures (to whom I am currently pitching a project) by explaining why the proposed Kathryn Bigelow-Mark Boal motion picture on the capture of Bin Laden is a quiet outrage, I should no doubt credential my megaphone.
> 
> Some films for which I have been responsible include: The Hanoi Hilton, To Heal a Nation, Ike: Countdown to D-day, Heroes of Desert Storm, Kissinger & Nixon, and especially DC 9/11: Time of Crisis. I cull these titles from my sixty odd credits because each dealt with military and/or political subjects that required cooperation at the highest levels, usually a considerable obstacle.
> 
> But even more difficult than obtaining that access, my bigger problem was often within the Hollywood community itself who eyed any such project with which I was involved as suspect; as one of the few outspoken conservatives in Hollywood over a period of 30 years I was hardly mainstream and always subjected to extreme rigor by my enablers at studios and networks.
> 
> Would that I had been so coddled as Ms. Bigelow and Mr. Boal appear to be; perhaps I fawned over the wrong people.
> 
> To be fair to Sony, this proposed Osama capture project is independently financed (by whom, I wonder) and the studio is involved only as the distributor. Also, my knowledge of the enterprise is only what has been reported in the public media, but there is enough in that to easily see the astounding degree to which the Hollywood-Washington liberal access is mutually corrupting, and is disgracing a popular culture that was once a jewel in America’s patrimony, the means by which our message of a free society conquered the world more easily than Roman legions or British soldiers.
> 
> In making a docudrama (and I believe I have done more than any other active American filmmaker) there are three critical factors: proximity of production to actual events, access to the actual participants, and release date.  And in each and every one of these elements this proposed project doesn’t merely fail the smell test, it leaves a trail that reeks from the White House to the smart bistros of Beverly Hills.
> 
> The most troubling discontinuity from accepted norms has to do with access. As any filmmaker, of any political stripe, can tell you, the Pentagon has an open door policy. They will offer their aid and facilities to any filmmaker with only two provisos: the entire content of the script is submitted and deemed to be generally consistent with the real world military; and, once you accept their support you must agree to their oversight of how you employ their resources.
> 
> The second of these is quite legitimate and consistent with case law and the doctrine of “fair use”: once you involve someone in your project you cannot use that involvement in ways they have interdicted — a cousin, if you will, of the Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination.  What is the consequence of breaking your end of the bargain?  You are liable for civil damages.
> 
> But the non-litigious Pentagon simply maintains a policy of subsequent non-cooperation with offenders. Everyone knows that, and that’s the deal. Which brings us to the Bigelow-Boal film The Hurt Locker. According to knowledgable sources in the American military, during the filming of The Hurt Locker Ms. Bigelow violated her agreement with the Pentagon, amongst other things using an American military vehicle to enter a Palestinian area to film a demonstration. Scenes were added but kept from the Pentagon, depicting U.S. personnel abusing detainees.
> 
> Notwithstanding this, the filmmakers came back for Pentagon help in this new film and were granted two meetings with the under secretary of defense for intelligence, Michael Vickers, a senior political appointee. Of the Obama administration. To be given that level of access to the Pentagon after previous bad faith by the filmmakers is such a departure from current practice one is forced to suspect significant pressure was applied to the Pentagon by its civilian political masters. During the preparation of DC 9-11, which covered the period from 9-11 to the president’s congressional address on 9-20, George W. Bush granted me an extended interview in which he was completely forthcoming and frank about his feelings and actions during that time.
> 
> He was so cooperative I solicited his intervention in obtaining similar access for me in three areas that were resisting my requests: Condoleezza Rice, the Pentagon, and Andrew Card. While he was warm and sympathetic, President Bush declined to be of help:
> 
> Getting you access to do something is a pretty close relative to asking you not to do something. You know how I feel about censorship. It’s the same thing, Lionel.
> 
> After all, he was the president. So I tried putting the screws to Karl Rove. He was not the president and therefore less gentle in explaining to me the slippery slope of ever telling the people in their administration to whom they should speak in these circumstances because the next thing they would be telling them is what to say to Congress. I eventually got the access I wanted  — except the Pentagon, where it was explained to me that some of the areas were so sensitive this was not the time. But, I protested, they knew me, that I had always played by the rules.
> 
> I was told one of the rules was that this close to the events I was depicting it was unwise to reveal anything to do with operations or personalities. They did arrange an interview with a member of the press office and that was that. Apparently, the airtight rules that governed the prior administration do not apply here. Which begs the question: Is access being ordained from high offices even if that access flies in the face of established rules?
> 
> More troubling is the matter of release date. When depicting a sitting politician nothing is more sensitive than the moment chosen to put the product before the public. Sony has already assigned a release date of October 12 to this unnamed project.  Anyone who works in Hollywood knows how difficult it is to get a hard release date. At this stage of the work they might say it’s for fourth quarter, or “late in the year.” But an actual date? Before a script is written? They must be pretty confident of the quality or have compelling reason to declare themselves this far ahead.
> 
> October 12. Just as the election is coming around the home stretch. A motion picture whose launch might well cost $75 million or more in publicity (to say nothing of enraptured stars on talk shows) will tell the story of a president who fearlessly succeeded where his predecessors failed. Aside from the stupidity of claiming the president had any other choice than to take OBL down (we’re told he took 16 hours on that no-brainer, which I expect will be the framing device of the film) the release date makes the claim of a non-partisan, disinterested drama pure fantasy, a beggaring of our common sense.
> 
> Again, I have personal witness: 2008 was the 20th anniversary of my film The Hanoi Hilton and Warner Brothers decided to issue an anniversary DVD edition and suggested I approach Senator John McCain for an interview that would be included as the added value. The senator agreed (the film had been universally applauded by the POWs) and an extraordinary conversation between him and me in which he revealed so much of what he felt and learned as a POW was presented with clarity and humanity.
> 
> I arranged for a private screening of the anniversary edition for mid-October, only to be told that would not be possible; having seen the interview, the studio felt the release might in some way impact the election and they were therefore embargoing its use until after November 3. While even the New York Times report found this amusingly curious and I was quoted as suggesting Warner’s political delicacy was an attempt “to be the only virgin in the whore house,” I had to grudgingly concede they had made the right choice. To their credit, that studio has never played this kind of game.  So John McCain can’t get a private DVD screening in mid-October but President Obama gets a release date.
> 
> Finally, there is the third element: Proximity to events:  The rush to production is curious and telling. It is a well-understood principle that the closer to the real event, the more likely the journalist or filmmaker is to be influenced by momentary zeitgeist. I admit that my television film Miracle on Ice aired on the first anniversary of Team USA’s magnificent victory, winning the hockey gold medal in the 1980 Olympics. But that was hockey.
> 
> Besides, the executive producer, Frank von Zerneck, had secured the players’ rights before the Olympics began and their attorney Art Kaminski had established the protocols and provided me with the players’ histories before I sat down to write word one. The current filmmakers claim they’ve been working on this through three administrations. Forgive my skepticism but I’d love to see evidence of one interview of a Bush or Clinton official that was contemporaneous to the matters discussed. And what of the rights to the individual Seals?
> 
> There is so much more about this whole affair that is so dispiriting; we who work in the popular culture should remember we are stewards, custodians, who must be ever mindful of the power of what we do to influence events. The higher reaches of Sony, a foreign entity, might be less sensitive to this obligation that comes with the privilege of working in our industry. But those who run the company on a day-to-day basis, up to and including the chairman, know better. It may be good business to take advantage of the willingness of an administration obsessed by re-election to bend rules and use influence in an unseemly way.
> 
> But it is very poor citizenship.
> 
> Mr. Chetwynd also does the Poliwood show on PJTV with Roger L. Simon.


----------



## The Bread Guy

Lookit who else (allegedly) got a peek at the remaining U.S. chopper bits left behind?


> Pakistan allowed Chinese military engineers to photograph and take samples from the top-secret stealth helicopter that US special forces left behind when they killed Osama bin Laden, the Financial Times has learned.
> 
> The action is the latest incident to underscore the increasingly complicated relationship and lack of trust between Islamabad and Washington following the raid.
> 
> "The US now has information that Pakistan, particularly the ISI, gave access to the Chinese military to the downed helicopter in Abbottabad," said one person in intelligence circles, referring to the Pakistani spy agency. The Chinese engineers were allowed to survey the wreckage and take photographs of it, as well as take samples of the special "stealth" skin that allowed the American team to enter Pakistan undetected by radar, he said ....


Source:  _Financial Times_, 14 Aug 11


----------



## Rifleman62

Thucydides, who do you think will portray the incisive President Obama in the movie? 

I speculate he will (insist) play himself, and, of course, an Oscar will be added to his trophy case to rest besides the Nobel Prize.


----------



## GAP

Maybe they can give him the Oscar before they bother making the movie to keep up the standard of the Nobel committee.............


----------



## The Bread Guy

Coming next week to the U.S. History network.....


> HISTORY will take viewers inside the dedicated effort to hunt and kill Osama Bin Laden in TARGETING BIN LADEN. This two-hour special event premieres on Tuesday, September 6 at 8pm ET featuring exclusive interviews with President Barack Obama and other senior aides.  The announcement was made today by Nancy Dubuc, President and General Manager, HISTORY.
> 
> In addition to President Obama, interviewees include National Security Advisor, Tom Donilon; White House Chief Counter-Terrorism Advisor, John O. Brennan; Ben Rhodes, Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications; former CIA Director, Gen. Michael Vincent Hayden; former CIA Deputy Director of Counter-Terrorism, Philip Mudd;  members of Congress; policy experts and others.
> 
> Rigorously researched, TARGETING BIN LADEN will take you inside this critical effort and examine the historical ramifications for President Obama's administration as well as look at the role of the dedicated men and women who worked for many years over several administrations to make this possible. TARGETING BIN LADEN uses historical footage, photographs and dramatic re-enactments to illustrate one of the most important missions in our nation's history.
> 
> TARGETING BIN LADEN is produced for HISTORY by Nutopia, producers of History's Emmy®-Award winning AMERICA THE STORY OF US.  Nutopia's CEO Jane Root is executive producer. The special is produced by Phil Craig (producer of six films about America's secret war with Al Qaeda, including the Emmy-nominated docudrama about United Flight 93, The Flight that Fought Back, Attack on the Pentagon and 911 State of Emergency) and directed by Bruce Goodison, who worked with Craig on The Flight That Fought Back. Julian P. Hobbs and Susan Werbe are executive producers for HISTORY ....


History news release, 31 Aug 11 - more from the Associated Press here


----------



## The Bread Guy

Laying out the legal case....


> The U.S. will keep targeting al-Qaida anywhere in the world, including in countries unable or unwilling to do it themselves, the top U.S. counterterror official said Friday.
> 
> White House counterterror chief John Brennan laid out what could be called the Osama bin Laden raid doctrine, in remarks at Harvard Law School. He says under international law, the U.S. can protect itself with pre-emptive action against suspects the U.S. believes present an imminent threat, wherever they are.
> 
> That amounts to a legal defense of the unilateral Navy SEAL raid into Pakistan that killed al-Qaida mastermind bin Laden in May....
> 
> “We reserve the right to take unilateral action if or when other governments are unwilling or unable to take the necessary actions themselves,” Brennan said.
> 
> Yet Brennan followed that by saying that does not mean the U.S. can use military force “whenever we want, wherever we want. International legal principles, including respect for a state’s sovereignty and the laws of war, impose important constraints on our ability to act unilaterally.” ....


_Marine Corps Times_, 17 Sept 11


----------



## GAP

Obama administration fighting hard to keep videos, photos of Osama Bin Laden corpse classified
BY Mike Jaccarino DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, September 28th 2011
Article Link

Five months after killing Osama Bin Laden, the Obama administration is doggedly fighting to keep coveted videos and photos of the archterrorist's corpse classified.

Citing national security concerns, U.S. Justice Department attorneys filed a motion late Monday seeking to dismiss a lawsuit by a conservative watchdog group requesting the images.

They are "wholly exempt from disclosure," according to court documents obtained and reported on by The Associated Press.

Judicial Watch had filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking the imagery, and, in response, the CIA said it had located 52 photographs and video recordings of Bin Laden's body.

Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch, fired back that the Obama administration had made a "political decision" in withholding the imagery, according to the AP.

"We shouldn't throw out our transparency laws because complying with them might offend terrorists," Fitton said in a statement. "The historical record of Osama bin Laden's death should be released to the American people as the law requires."

The CIA and Pentagon had earlier denied another Freedom of Information Act request made by the AP for a raft of reports, photographic images and video concerning Bin Laden's death.
More on link


----------



## dogger1936

The tinfoil hat part of me really hopes he was taken alive and waterboarded for the past 3 months. A guy can dream right?


----------



## FlyingDutchman

There is still a small small part of me that goes "I'll believe it when I see it."


----------



## The Bread Guy

> Chuck Pfarrer, a former SEAL commander, claims to have pieced together the true story of the May mission in conversations in which the troops "told me what they saw, what they thought, and what they felt".
> 
> In 'Seal Target Geronimo', a copy of which was obtained by _The Daily Telegraph_, Pfarrer also gives a detailed account of the May 1 raid that contradicts the official story told by US officials.
> 
> Rather than moving up through the property and discovering the al-Qaeda chief after a prolonged firefight, SEALs landed on the roof, burst in through the third floor and killed him within 90 seconds, he claims ....


_The Daily Telegraph_, 4 Nov 11


----------



## FlyingDutchman

Shared with the usual
Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/aug/31/9-11-children-colouring-book-muslims?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038


> A colouring book about the events of 9/11, complete with pictures of the burning twin towers and the execution of a cowering Osama bin Laden for children to fill in, has provoked outrage among American Muslims.
> 
> We Shall Never Forget 9/11: The Kids' Book of Freedom has just been released by the Missouri-based publisher Really Big Coloring Books, which says it is "designed to be a tool that parents can use to help teach children about the facts surrounding 9/11". Showing scenes from 9/11 for children to colour in and telling the story of the attacks and the subsequent hunt for Osama bin Laden, "the book was created with honesty, integrity, reverence, respect and does not shy away from the truth", according to its publisher, which says that it has sold out of its first print run of 10,000 copies.
> 
> One page of the $6.99 book, which has been given a PG rating, shows Bin Laden hiding behind a hijab-wearing woman as he is shot by a Navy SEAL. "Being the elusive character that he was, and after hiding out with his terrorist buddies in Pakistan and Afghanistan, American soldiers finally locate the terrorist leader Osama bin Laden," runs the text accompanying the picture. "Children, the truth is, these terrorist acts were done by freedom-hating radical Islamic Muslim extremists. These crazy people hate the American way of life because we are FREE and our society is FREE."
> 
> The Council on American-Islamic Relations has condemned the book as "disgusting", saying that it characterises all Muslims as linked to extremism, terrorism and radicalism, which could lead children reading the book to believe that all Muslims are responsible for 9/11, and that followers of the Islamic faith are their enemies.
> 
> Ibrahim Hooper, communications director for the organisation, told the Toronto Star that "America is full of these individuals and groups seeking to demonise Islam and marginalise Muslims and it's just a fact of life in the post-9/11 era". Nonetheless, he expressed his hope that "parents would recognise the agenda behind this book and not expose their children to intolerance or religious hatred".
> 
> Publisher Wayne Bell told American television that the book does not portray Muslims "in a negative light at all. That is incorrect. This is about 19 terrorist hijackers that came over here under the leadership of a devil worshipper, Osama bin Laden, to murder our people," Bell said. "He [Dawud Walid, executive director of CAIR] calls the book disgusting ... but he should call the people in the book, the 19 terrorists, Osama bin Laden, he should call him disgusting. This is history. It is absolutely factual."
> 
> But Walid said that "given the fact that this is a very emotional and sensitive topic and that there were Muslims who were victims in 9/11 [and] who were first responders, we think it would have been more responsible if the language would not have been such that every time Muslim was used it's radical, extremist, terrorist ... All these characters are painted to the mind of a young person that perhaps all Muslims may be somewhat responsible for 9/11 or that Muslims are an enemy."
> 
> Really Big Coloring Books, which also published a colouring book teaching children about the Tea Party last year, has said that it will donate a portion of its proceeds from sales of the book to Bridges for Peace, "a Jerusalem-based, Bible-believing Christian organisation supporting Israel and building relationships between Christians and Jews worldwide through education and practical deeds expressing God's love and mercy".


It doesn't help that Osama kinda looks like Santa here.  Yes, kids have to learn, but from a colouring book?

EDIT: Forgot link and disclaimer.


----------



## vonGarvin

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> Yes, kids have to learn, but from a colouring book?


Why not?  They did in World War Two, even learning how to draw "The Fuhrer"


----------



## FlyingDutchman

What do does words says, right above the arrows pointing to his gut?


----------



## vonGarvin

"New Fronts"


----------



## Rifleman62

As posted before, a couple of movies are in production, including the movie slated for release just before the presidential election. ( Obama "staring" as himself and accepting an Oscar in  the movie credits).

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/06/new-book-details-seals-raid-that-killed-osama-bin-laden.html
*
Myths of the Bin Laden Raid*

Pfarrer captures the SEALs’ resentment of the president, whom they see as publicity-seeking.

The Daily Beast - Nov 6, 2011 

There was no running gunfight. And the SEALs did not have a kill order. Richard Miniter on the new book detailing the night al Qaeda’s chief died—and the headaches it could cause Obama.

Osama bin Laden did not hear the SEALs’ stealthy helicopter until it hovered over the roof of his three-story home and the chopper’s spinning blades smashed his plastic patio chairs against his bedroom window.

In less than 10 seconds, the SEALs had jumped onto the roof, crawled across the rain-stained tiles, and descended onto bin Laden’s patio. The bearded terror leader sleepily opened his bedroom door and then, spotting two armed men with night-vision gear coming down the hall toward him, quickly slammed it.

They were right behind him.

As the SEALs forced open the bedroom door, they heard bin Laden’s youngest wife screaming in Arabic while raising a blanket to block their view. Behind the rising blanket, they saw bin Laden scrambling for an AKSU machine pistol.

As she tried to shield him, bin Laden shoved his wife into the line of fire. It was the last thing he did.

The first round went into the mattress behind bin Laden. The other three rounds found their mark as the two SEALs fired as one.

Bin Laden’s pistol now hangs on the wall of SEAL Team Six’s Virginia base, beside the photos of comrades killed in action.

These are the kinds of inside details that emerge from Chuck Pfarrer’s new book SEAL Target Geronimo.

Pfarrer certainly had access. A SEAL Team Six assault-element commander in the 1980s, he is known inside the intelligence community for his well-regarded first book, Warrior Soul, and inside Hollywood for writing and producing movies including Navy SEALs, Hard Target, and Virus. He clearly had detailed conversations with senior officers in the SEALs’ chain of command (especially Adm. William McRaven and then–SEAL Team Six commander Scott Kerr) and understands the vocabulary and the culture very well.

But some details in his book could complicate the 2012 presidential race. Pfarrer reports that the White House overruled the Navy plan to have two F-18 Hornets provide air support for SEALs helicopters, which would have been easily shot down if found by Pakistan’s Air Force. Also scrubbed were the latest-generation stealth helicopters, known as “ghost hawks.” The SEALs would have to make do with the older Stealth Hawks, which had mechanical problems. Ultimately, one crash-landed due to faulty electronics and had to be demolished on the site. Each of these decisions—to deny fighter support and to use older helicopters—may have been sound. Putting fighters in Pakistani airspace or allowing the Pakistanis to see the latest technology might have complicated relations between America and its Janus-faced ally, Pakistan. Republicans may have been reluctant to attack the president over an achievement that even Dick Cheney applauded. Still, Pfarrer's findings could fuel critics of the president who think he was quick to take personal credit and play politics with the SEALs' successful mission.

Obama may also have trouble explaining why he publicly announced bin Laden’s death just hours after it occurred. The SEALs captured 12 garbage bags worth of notebooks, hard drives, satellite phones, and other digital devices. The data could have been used to launch surprise raids on all the senior members of the al Qaeda network, while the leaders turned on each other and wondered who the traitor was. For the SEALs and other special operators I’ve spoken with, that was the natural next move. Al Qaeda could have been rolled up in six months. Pfarrer captures the SEALs’ resentment of the president, whom they see as publicity-seeking. He ignores the White House’s concerns: the nation had waited almost 10 years for bin Laden to be brought to justice, and that news might have leaked.

Pfarrer also does his best to poke the CIA in the eye. He points out that the agency insisted on having one of its officers in on the raid. While we are repeatedly told that the CIA man had little experience “fast-roping” down for helicopters and doesn’t have the training that the SEALs do (who does?), only in an aside are we informed that he was the only one who could speak Arabic and other local languages. He was the only man who could interview the prisoners or quiet the women and children in the compound. Also, the CIA’s role in locating bin Laden is dismissed in a throwaway paragraph. That’s unfair. The CIA took a few clues from the interrogation of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the operational planner of the 9/11 attacks, and located bin Laden’s trusted courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti. Then the agency persuaded a colonel in Pakistan’s feared intelligence agency, the ISI, to provide key documents, including the plans for bin Laden’s Abbottabad compound. CIA officers rented apartments and surveilled the bin Laden compound for months, until they could persuade their superiors to deploy satellites. And so on. The CIA’s role in the operation remains an exciting, but untold, story.

SEAL Target Geronimo explodes a number of media myths about the raid to kill bin Laden.

It was not a “kill mission” from the start. The SEALs had no explicit orders to kill the archterrorist and would have captured him if possible.

There was no “45-minute” running gun battle. The SEAL team fired only 12 bullets, and the whole operation lasted only 38 minutes.

The most provocative part of the book is pure speculation: by killing bin Laden, did the SEALs accidentally do Zawahiri’s dirty work? Ayman al-Zawahiri is al Qaeda’s No. 2 and wanted to be No. 1. Maybe Zawahiri used couriers he knew were known to America’s spies, hoping they would find bin Laden and dispatch him. Also, Zawahiri, a physician, never apparently treated bin Laden for Addison’s disease, a condition that was suggested by bin Laden’s autopsy results aboard the USS Carl Vinson. So maybe bin Laden was set up by his deputy. As the British Foreign Office used to famously say: “Interesting, if true.”


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/11/06/seals-killed-usama-bin-laden-within-minutes-new-book-reveals/

FOX News -  November 06, 2011

*SEALs Killed Usama Bin Laden Within Minutes, New Book Reveals*

Excerpt: Pfarrer’s book, according to the Post, also reveals that the SEALs were angry with President Obama for announcing bin Laden’s death on TV just hours after they completed the mission on May 1.

Audio Book Excerpt: 'SEAL Target Geronimo':  http://video.foxnews.com/v/1263012430001/audio-book-excerpt-seal-target-geronimo


----------



## The Bread Guy

The latest from SOCOM, via AP - "Lies!  All Lies!"


> The U.S. Special Operations Command is calling a former Navy SEAL's book bogus over its claims to describe the "real" version of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.
> 
> "It's just not true," U.S. Special Operations Command spokesman Col. Tim Nye said. "It's not how it happened."
> 
> Laden with conspiracy theories and attacks on the Obama White House, Chuck Pfarrer's "SEAL Target Geronimo" claims an alternative version of the raid in which the SEAL team shot bin Laden within 90 seconds of arriving at the Pakistan compound where the al-Qaida mastermind was holed up.
> 
> Pfarrer claims the White House issued a fictional and damaging account of the raid that made the SEALs looks inept. He says President Barack Obama's speedy acknowledgement of the raid was a craven political move that rendered much of the intelligence gathered on the raid useless.
> 
> Pfarrer's account broke into Amazon's top 20 book sales list last week, and Pfarrer has appeared on Fox News, CNN and in other venues to promote it ....


----------



## a_majoor

More on the He said/she said book thing:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/16/former-seal-stands-by-account-of-bin-laden-raid-says-administration-out-to-get-him-2/?print=1



> *Former SEAL stands by account of bin Laden raid, says administration out to get him*
> 2:20 PM 11/16/2011
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> In a rare on-the-record denial, U.S. Special Operations Command has come forward to dispute the story told in a controversial new book exploring how al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden met his end at the hands of U.S. Navy SEALS.
> 
> “It’s just not true,” said Col. Tim Nye, U.S. Special Operations Command spokesman of the account told in Chuck Pfarrer’s new book “SEAL Target Geronimo.”
> 
> “It’s not how it happened.”
> 
> Pfarrer, a former Navy SEAL himself, says the Obama administration has a political interest in sticking to its guns, and that he has staked his career on the facts in his book.
> 
> “I think it’s very important that the administration itself push back on this. They have never really come out with a complete story,” said Pfarrer, in an exclusive interview with The Daily Caller. “The story they did come out with was a series of factoids: a 45-minute firefight, the deliberate wounding of a woman, a ground–up assault, trying to explain how a helicopter landed on the wrong side of a 20-foot wall and a 10-foot steel gate.”
> 
> Pfarrer, whose tale rejects each of those claims, says that the administration’s story — told most comprehensively by The New Yorker — was borne of haphazard political expedience.
> 
> “I’m afraid it’s a bit embarrassing for them. Almost everything that was released about the mission, aside from what the president said, was incorrect,” claims Pfarrer. “They had to reel in everything they said. They got tired of correcting themselves, and I think the final method of damage control was simply to freeze the story, stop the narrative where they left it.”
> 
> “I think the military might find itself coerced into trying to defend the administration’s version of events,” he warned.
> 
> “I wrote this book with eyewitness accounts and the best information available,” said Pfarrer, who maintains that he spoke with multiple special-forces operators directly involved in the bin Laden mission.
> 
> For the military’s part, in the days surrounding SEAL Target Geronimo’s news-dominating release, each member of SEAL Team Six was questioned about whether they had spoken with Pfarrer. While each operator reportedly denied any exchange with the author, it does leave open the question of why the military thought it important to ask at all if his facts were wrong.
> 
> Col. Nye claims there will be no further investigation on the part of Special Operations Command.
> 
> In an earlier interview with TheDC, Pfarrer predicted that the Obama administration would speak out against his account.
> 
> “This is something I always expected,” said Pfarrer. “When the administration’s version of events started coming apart, principally with the helicopter crashing on insertion and then another one diverting outside the target, the story just didn’t hold pace.”
> 
> “I realized there would be heat for this,” he added, “but I felt that it was vital to set the historical record straight and to do these guys the honor they deserve for this very well-run mission.”
> 
> Pfarrer claims he joined many other journalists and storytellers who sought information directly from the White House in the weeks immediately following bin Laden’s death. The administration came under intense scrutiny then for extending informational access to a Hollywood movie studio working on a movie about bin Laden’s takedown — a film that would debut in advance of the November 2012 election.
> 
> At the time, White House spokesman Jay Carney brushed off concerns raised by reporters that the administration was selectively doling out information for political reasons.
> 
> “When people, including you in this room,” said Carney, “are working on articles, books, documentaries or movies that involve the president, ask to speak to administration officials, we do our best to accommodate them to make sure that facts are correct. That is hardly a novel approach to the media.”
> 
> “I twice asked the White House for help working on this book,” said Pfarrer. “Both times they told me, ‘good luck’ while they were engaging with people who were helping with fundraisers,” he explained, referring to the movie studio that received special access.
> 
> Pfarrer says multiple firsthand sources he used for his book have contacted him since the administration began pushing back on his claims.
> 
> “I’ve gotten messages back to me saying, ‘keep the faith,’” said Pfarrer. “When I was writing this book, my sources told me, ‘you’re gonna get clobbered’ and I absolutely expected it.”
> 
> And Pfarrer thinks the Obama administration’s effort to “clobber” him is well underway.
> 
> “The administration has pushed back absolutely as hard as they can, in every position they can to question my credibility, question my service record, which I think is a bit despicable,” he explained.
> 
> “I have never had my credibility questioned,” insisted Pfarrer. “In fact, the previous book I wrote about my experience in SEAL Team is on the Navy recruiting site.”
> 
> “It’s kind of the last desperate arrow they can shoot at me.”
> 
> Pfarrer’s detractors have even moved “to out my registered government company,” he said, by publicly identifying Acme Ballistics Incorporated, which specializes in “counter terrorism mission training” according to its website.
> 
> Pfarrer said the effort to tarnish his credibility is “necessary” for a White House interested in “protecting and cherishing the New Yorker article.”
> 
> “They’ve attacked me on every single level that they can,” he told TheDC.
> 
> He believes history, and a persistent American curiosity with the night Osama bin Laden was killed, will ultimately bear out the facts.
> 
> “I encourage people to file Freedom of Information requests,” said Pfarrer. “Let’s get the timeline of the operation out in the public and I won’t have to rewrite my book when these facts come out.”
> 
> Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/16/former-seal-stands-by-account-of-bin-laden-raid-says-administration-out-to-get-him-2/#ixzz1dyC2d6Vh


----------



## GAP

Osama bin Laden plotted to assassinate Obama, Petraeus, documents show
By Christi Parsons, MCT March 16, 2012
Article Link

WASHINGTON — Osama bin Laden in his final days schemed over an effort to kill President Barack Obama as well as other top U.S. officials, documents recovered from his compound show.

A senior administration official confirmed the existence of a bin Laden proposal to assassinate Obama and Gen. David Petraeus, first reported Friday by Washington Post columnist David Ignatius. The administration official said the documents show that bin Laden spent much of his time brooding and offering guidance that went unheeded and that he was extremely concerned with improving al-Qaida's public image, going so far as to consider changing the group's name.

Senior leaders of al-Qaida believed the group's image had been seriously damaged because of its attacks against other Muslims, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter.
More on link

Pentagon probing possible leak of bin Laden raid details
Article Link
 By Ken Dilanian, Tribune Washington Bureau January 5, 2012

WASHINGTON - Did the Obama administration release classified information to Hollywood notables for a film about the operation that killed Osama bin Laden, Sony Pictures movie slated for release in the heat of this fall's election campaign?

That's a question Rep. Peter T. King, R-N.Y., wants answered. And in response, the Pentagon's inspector general has launched an investigation, King disclosed Thursday.

"We plan to begin subject investigation immediately," Patricia A. Brannin, deputy inspector general for intelligence and special program assessments, wrote in a memo that King emailed to reporters.

At issue is whether the filmmakers - director Kathryn Bigelow and screenwriter Mark Boal, who both won Oscars for their 2009 Iraq war movie "The Hurt Locker" - were given access to classified information about a mission that remains shrouded in secrecy. While newspapers and magazines have published detailed accounts about the raid, much remains unknown to all but a few.

The film is scheduled to arrive in theaters in October, amid President Obama's re-election battle. The bin Laden raid is widely viewed as a political plus for Obama, who sent U.S. Navy SEALs to kill the Qaida leader at a compound in Pakistan even though the CIA could not say with certainty he was there.
More on link


----------



## GAP

Ornate, but not lavish: Another bin Laden home located in Pakistan

The emerging details of Osama bin Laden's life on the run raise fresh questions over how the Al Qaeda chief was able to evade detection for years in Pakistan. 

By Kathy Gannon, Associated Press / April 1, 2012 
Article Link

Haripur, Pakistan

It's an ornate but not lavish two-story house tucked away at the end of a mud clogged street. This is where Pakistan's intelligence agency believes Osama bin Laden lived for nearly a year until he moved into the villa in which he was eventually killed.

The residence in the frontier town of Haripur was one of five safe houses used by the slain Al Qaeda leader while on the run in Pakistan according to information revealed by his youngest wife, who has been detained.

Retired Pakistani Brig. Shaukat Qadir, who has spent the last eight months tracking bin Laden's movements, told The Associated Press that he was taken to the Haripur house last November by intelligence agents who located it from a description they got from Amal Ahmed Abdel-Fatah al-Sada.

Al-Sada, a 30-year-old Yemeni, has been in Pakistani custody since May 2 when US Navy SEALs overran the Abbottabad compound, killing bin Laden and four other people inside. Since then, Pakistan's intelligence agency, known as the ISI, has been trying to uncover the trail that brought him to Abbottabad villa in the summer of 2005.

The best information appears to have come from al-Sada, who was believed to be his favorite and who traveled with bin Laden since his escape from Afghanistan's eastern Tora Bora mountain range in 2001.

Qadir, a 35-year army veteran who is now a security consultant, was given rare access to transcripts of Pakistani intelligence's interrogation of al-Sada and access to other documents on bin-Laden's movements. He provided the AP with details in a recent interview.

The details of bin Laden's life as a fugitive — which were first published by the Pakistani newspaper Dawn — raise fresh questions over how bin Laden was able to remain undetected for so long in Pakistan after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, despite being the subject of a massive international manhunt.

Yet a senior US official, who is familiar with the contents recovered in bin Laden's Abbottabad house, said there was no evidence that Pakistani officials were aware of bin Laden's presence. "There was no smoking gun. We didn't find anything," he said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the contents of the Abbottabad house
More on link and on page #2


----------



## Brad Sallows

As long as he's still dead, I don't care if Robin Leach dines out for an entire season of TV on his real estate holdings.


----------



## jollyjacktar

GAP said:
			
		

> Ornate, but not lavish: Another bin Laden home located in Pakistan
> 
> .The details of bin Laden's life as a fugitive — which were first published by the Pakistani newspaper Dawn — raise fresh questions over how bin Laden was able to remain undetected for so long in Pakistan after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, despite being the subject of a massive international manhunt.
> 
> Yet a senior US official, who is familiar with the contents recovered in bin Laden's Abbottabad house, said there was no evidence that Pakistani officials were aware of bin Laden's presence. "There was no smoking gun. We didn't find anything," he said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the contents of the Abbottabad house
> More on link and on page #2



I won't believe for a minute that there was no-one in Pakistan who knew this dik was in the country.  Someone knew, had to of known.


----------



## a_majoor

More leakage on the Bil Laden raid story:

http://news.investors.com/article/609557/201204271858/navy-admiral-made-bin-laden-decision.htm?p=full



> *Memo Reveals The 'Gutsy' Bin Laden Call That Wasn't*
> 
> Posted 04/27/2012 06:58 PM ET
> 
> Killing Bin Laden: Like so many others, the final decision to pull the trigger on the world's most-wanted man was delegated to an admiral who undoubtedly would have been thrown under the bus had the mission failed.
> 
> It's been almost a year since President Obama's leadership and foreign policy bona fides were allegedly established by the operation that killed Osama bin Laden. A campaign film narrated by Oscar-winning actor Tom Hanks tells of the president's alleged solitary, agonizing decision.
> 
> With apologies to Vice President Biden, maybe President Obama doesn't carry quite as big a stick as Joe would lead us to believe.
> 
> As reported by Big Peace, Time magazine has obtained a memo written by Leon Panetta, then-director of the Central Intelligence Agency and now-Secretary of Defense, that says "operational decision-making and control" was really in the hands of William McRaven, a three-star admiral and former Navy SEAL.
> 
> "The timing, operational decision-making and control are in Adm. McRaven's hands," the memo says. "The approval is provided on the risk profile presented to the president. Any additional risks are to be brought back to the president for his consideration. The direction is to go in and get bin Laden and, if he is not there, to get out."
> 
> In other words, it was McRaven's call to pull the trigger or not on the raid.
> 
> Some would say that this is a distinction without a difference, sort of like a head coach in football drawing up the game plan and letting his offensive coordinator actually call the plays. Then, technically, President George W. Bush gets the credit, since it was on his watch our war on terror was declared, Navy SEALs and Special Forces funding was increased and the hunt for Osama bin Laden began.
> 
> The Panetta memo, rather than presenting a profile in courage, says "approval is provided on the risk profile presented to the president." This left enough wiggle room to blame the operation planners and controllers if the raid had gone as wrong as President Jimmy Carter's famous failure to rescue American hostages held by Iran. This memo left room for the blame for another "Blackhawk Down" snafu to be blamed on anyone and everyone but President Obama.
> 
> Luckily, operational control was in McRaven's hands, and the planning, execution and decision-making were virtually flawless. There was no repeat of the incident years before of Sandy Berger, last seen stuffing classified documents in his pants, telling a CIA and Northern Alliance team in Afghanistan, on that occasion literally a matter of feet away from bin Laden, that if they want to grab him, they'll have to do it on their own. So they didn't.
> 
> This time, we had an admiral and former Navy SEAL making the decision.
> 
> It was McRaven, heading the Joint Special Operations Command, who, on Jan. 29, 2011, began to plan "finish options" for bin Laden alongside his counterparts in a 7th-floor CIA conference room. It was McRaven who commanded the helicopter assault against the al-Qaida leader's redoubt in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
> 
> On that fateful night it was McRaven, linked by secure video from Jalalabad to the White House, who briefed the president, sitting in the corner of the "war room," in real time as the operation progressed.
> 
> Finally, it was the courageous and well-trained Navy SEALs who put their lives on the line and got a small measure of revenge for Sept. 11, 2001. It is President Obama who is falsely taking all the credit.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

What a load of "what-if" kife.
Out of all the stupid blog posts you post I do believe that was the stupidest.......................so far.


----------



## Pieman

Man didn't walk on the moon....9/11 was faked by the government...Now people trying to brew this into a conspiracy theory of sorts. 

Wonder what happened to that guy who went searching for Bin Ladens body...eaten by sea monsters I bet.


----------



## aesop081

Pieman said:
			
		

> Wonder what happened to that guy who went searching for Bin Ladens body...



Silence by the government, of course.


----------



## tomahawk6

Hey Bruce here is the memo that pushed the final decision down to Adm McRaven.Think of it as plausible deniability.

http://timeswampland.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/memo.jpg

Received phone call from Tom Donilon who stated that the President made a decision with regard to AC1 [Abbottabad Compound 1]. The decision is to proceed with the assault.
The timing, operational decision making and control are in Admiral McRaven’s hands. The approval is provided on the risk profile presented to the President. Any additional risks are to be brought back to the President for his consideration. The direction is to go in and get bin Laden and if he is not there, to get out. Those instructions were conveyed to Admiral McRaven at approximately 10:45 am.


----------



## Old Sweat

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Hey Bruce here is the memo that pushed the final decision down to Adm McRaven.Think of it as plausible deniability.
> 
> http://timeswampland.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/memo.jpg
> 
> Received phone call from Tom Donilon who stated that the President made a decision with regard to AC1 [Abbottabad Compound 1]. The decision is to proceed with the assault.
> The timing, operational decision making and control are in Admiral McRaven’s hands. The approval is provided on the risk profile presented to the President. Any additional risks are to be brought back to the President for his consideration. The direction is to go in and get bin Laden and if he is not there, to get out. Those instructions were conveyed to Admiral McRaven at approximately 10:45 am.



I don't see anything too nefarious here. Authority to conduct the operation was delegated to the local commander. Responsibility for okaying the operation in the first placed still fell to the president. After all he gave the order to "proceed with the assault." I would be more concerned if it was being micromanaged stage by stage from the White House, with the SEALs having to get approval at each stage.


----------



## tomahawk6

No biggy. McRaven commands US Special Operations Command with HQ in Florida.


----------



## dogger1936

Didn't realize McRaven was IN Pakistan during the operation. BZ to him. I can imagine the things that could happen to someone commanding this mission inside the country.


----------



## OldSolduer

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Didn't realize McRaven was IN Pakistan during the operation. BZ to him. I can imagine the things that could happen to someone commanding this mission inside the country.



One tactical bound behind his troops.....I agree with the BZ. Well done Admiral.


----------



## Good2Golf

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> Didn't realize McRaven was IN Pakistan during the operation. BZ to him. I can imagine the things that could happen to someone commanding this mission inside the country.



Dogger, ADM McRaven was in Jalalabad, but the intent was certainly there, as you note, to be with the troops.  At the UNCLAS level, reasonable to assume he was somewhere around here.  He probably got to shake a few hands an hour after the guys assaulted AC1.

Regards
G2G


----------



## Rifleman62

*Epic New Ad Excoriates Obama For Exploiting Bin Laden’s Death*

A group called “Veterans for a Strong America” is out with a scathing political ad ripping President Barack Obama for what it sees as exploiting Osama bin Laden’s death.

Released Tuesday night, the one-minute, 17-second spot crosses images of Navy SEALS and statements proclaiming “what heroes do” with clips of the president. One segment strings together his references to himself in announcing bin Laden’s death, saying:* “I can report…I directed…I was briefed…I met repeatedly…I determined…at my direction…I called…”*

“Heroes don’t seek credit,” the ad states.

The spot then shifts to the Obama campaign’s recent ad featuring former President Bill Clinton discussing the bin Laden raid and how a botched mission would have reflected on the president.

“Suppose the Navy SEALs had gone in there…suppose they had been captured or killed,” Clinton says. “The downside would have been horrible for him.”

“Horrible for HIM?” the ad states.

It concludes with a split-screen of a SEAL with the caption “heroism” and Obama’s face with the word “politics.”

“Tell President Obama,” it states. “Our service members sacrifice to protect our country. Not to benefit his political campaign.”

Veterans for a Strong America describes itself as a “non-partisan action organization” headed by Joel Arends, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Arends was on the McCain campaign’s payroll during the 2008 campaign.

The ad’s release came hours after Obama made a surprise trip to Kabul and visited with American troops.

The Atlantic Wire has termed the ad, “the Swift Boating of Obama” — a reference to the infamous “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth” campaign against 2004 presidential candidate John Kerry.

Watch the full ad below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JsrSAqRrCc0#!


----------



## Redeye

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> *Epic New Ad Excoriates Obama For Exploiting Bin Laden’s Death*
> 
> A group called “Veterans for a Strong America” is out with a scathing political ad ripping President Barack Obama for what it sees as exploiting Osama bin Laden’s death.
> 
> Released Tuesday night, the one-minute, 17-second spot crosses images of Navy SEALS and statements proclaiming “what heroes do” with clips of the president. One segment strings together his references to himself in announcing bin Laden’s death, saying:* “I can report…I directed…I was briefed…I met repeatedly…I determined…at my direction…I called…”*
> 
> “Heroes don’t seek credit,” the ad states.
> 
> The spot then shifts to the Obama campaign’s recent ad featuring former President Bill Clinton discussing the bin Laden raid and how a botched mission would have reflected on the president.
> 
> “Suppose the Navy SEALs had gone in there…suppose they had been captured or killed,” Clinton says. “The downside would have been horrible for him.”
> 
> “Horrible for HIM?” the ad states.
> 
> It concludes with a split-screen of a SEAL with the caption “heroism” and Obama’s face with the word “politics.”
> 
> “Tell President Obama,” it states. “Our service members sacrifice to protect our country. Not to benefit his political campaign.”
> 
> Veterans for a Strong America describes itself as a “non-partisan action organization” headed by Joel Arends, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Arends was on the McCain campaign’s payroll during the 2008 campaign.
> 
> The ad’s release came hours after Obama made a surprise trip to Kabul and visited with American troops.
> 
> The Atlantic Wire has termed the ad, “the Swift Boating of Obama” — a reference to the infamous “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth” campaign against 2004 presidential candidate John Kerry.
> 
> Watch the full ad below:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JsrSAqRrCc0#!



A "non-partisan" ad negatively discussing a Democratic President, from an organization fronted by a guy who worked for the GOP candidate that lost to him. "Non-partisan" indeed.

If the situation was reversed and it was a GOP President sitting when OBL met his fate, I find myself fairly confident that they'd be taking all the credit they could for it.

In his speech at Ft Campbell immediately afterward, I don't remember him sounding like he was taking credit for anything. He stated the facts of the matter. He could report that OBL was dead. He directed...  the mission take place (or delegated authority to do so), because he's Commander-in-Chief and that's his job. He was briefed... of course he was. He met repeatedly ... presumably with all sorts of advisors who helped shape the decision that ultimately was his to make. He determined... yeah, that's his job - because ultimately, the responsibility for the mission and its consequences laid with him.

That's not trying to take credit or glory. That's the way it went down.


----------



## Infanteer

Redeye said:
			
		

> A "non-partisan" ad negatively discussing a Democratic President, from an organization fronted by a guy who worked for the GOP candidate that lost to him. "Non-partisan" indeed.
> 
> If the situation was reversed and it was a GOP President sitting when OBL met his fate, I find myself fairly confident that they'd be taking all the credit they could for it.
> 
> In his speech at Ft Campbell immediately afterward, I don't remember him sounding like he was taking credit for anything. He stated the facts of the matter. He could report that OBL was dead. He directed...  the mission take place (or delegated authority to do so), because he's Commander-in-Chief and that's his job. He was briefed... of course he was. He met repeatedly ... presumably with all sorts of advisors who helped shape the decision that ultimately was his to make. He determined... yeah, that's his job - because ultimately, the responsibility for the mission and its consequences laid with him.
> 
> That's not trying to take credit or glory. That's the way it went down.



That's sounds pretty straight up to me.  The usual partisan dogsh*t aside (including the blog above), the President was doing his job.  Why there is a need to argue over this is beyond me....


----------



## observor 69

Peter Bergen in his new book notes that the intelligence community felt at best the odds of Bin Laden being in the compound 
were fifty fifty.  As someone noted if the mission had gone south Obama would have born the criticism.
Way too easy for Romney to say anyone would have made the decision to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD75KOoNR9k


----------



## tomahawk6

Actually the administration would have thrown Adm McRaven under the bus.The President just doesnt make mistakes. :


----------



## Good2Golf

Good on McRaven for being in J-bad and seeing the SEALs and Nightstalkers off, and return.  I agree T6, he'd have gone under the bus if OBL wasn't there.

Regards
G2G


----------



## Rifleman62

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/05/rex-murphy-how-obama-cheapened-a-great-victory-in-the-war-on-terror/

NP - 5 May 12

*Rex Murphy: How Obama cheapened a great victory in the war on terror*

How do you make something smaller than it is or should be? How do you shrink an event?

One way is to manipulate the event for smaller purposes than those it already has served. The killing of Osama bin Laden is an example. It is of deep significance. Bin Laden was the principal architect of the horrors of 9/11. He was the sinister beacon of “jihadis” worldwide. He was, till the daring of U.S. Navy Seals changed the equation, 10 years after 9/11, still hidden, uncaptured, unpunished.

The killing of bin Laden was not a war-ending event. Modern wars, of the kind being waged now in Afghanistan, have blurred boundaries. Their precise end can be hard to pin down. But putting an end to the mind that plotted the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon nonetheless carried immense value. It underscored the remorselessness — a virtue in this context — of the United States in pursuing its deadly enemies. It gave some kind of meager retributive solace to those who lost loved ones 10 years back. It must have galvanized the morale of American troops everywhere.

This signal act was the culmination of the work of many officials, from both the Bush and Obama administrations. No international hunt of a decade’s length, involving thousands of people, from front-line soldiers to the high-tech wizards of special services, the CIA, and personnel at the White House, could be described as anything less than a large team operation. As such, it manifested the resolve of an entire nation, a pursuit beyond the usual partisan boundaries.

Yes, it occurred on Obama’s watch. And, as is the way with these things, it falls therefore to his credit. And so it should. But, as is also the way with such things: If praise is to be given, it is best to come from others.

Self-administered flatteries, or public hosannas from close political allies, are tawdry and unconvincing.  Spiking the football in the end zone always is a vulgar display of raw egotism on the gridiron. It is equally unseemly when a political quarterback performs the same gesture in a more figurative context.
It is just such a gesture that we have witnessed during the one-year anniversary of Bin Laden’s killing, as Democrats cooed and crowed. Obama even played off the issue for jokes at the White House Correspondent’s dinner. Even Kim Khardashian chuckled.

Obama went from admirable reticence a year ago, to hitting every note on his own horn a year later. A surprise trip to Afghanistan to sign an agreement was acknowledged by no less than the British Guardian newspaper as an accent note on the anniversary of Osama’s killing. The president’s flacks, their tributes dutifully uploaded to YouTube, have been endlessly ingenious in reminding us all how “brave” the call was.
Bill Clinton carried that line in an ad the Democrats put out, asking the audience to imagine how bad it would have been for Obama if the raid had turned sour.  Well, however bad it would have been for the President, imagine how bad it would have been for the soldiers involved. The Seals were the ones, as the expression has it, at the tip of the spear.

Obama’s boosters deeply confuse political bravery with combat bravery. At the very least, they try, shamelessly, to elide the two.
Joe Biden, the administration’s all purpose towel boy, was heard at a fund raiser to praise Obama’s decision to authorize the raid as “the most audacious in the last 500 years.” This is not spiking the football so much as putting it in an air cannon and firing it into another state. History and Joe Biden must not be on speaking terms.
Perhaps, Mr. Biden could reread Lincoln’s revered Gettysberg address. He would find in that brief and noble speech every quality that is lacking in the present moment, and in the handling of the present moment by 24/7 politicians. Above all, he would find in Lincoln’s words a generous displacing of “self,” an  implicit recoiling from putting one actor, even a President, at the centre of great events.

Lincoln spoke of the dead, the country, the grieving — everyone but himself. You cannot imagine him politicizing the moment. He composed a national memory that day. We’re in an age that’s taken a lesser turn, and modesty has departed the field.

Obama took a national moment and reduced it, very largely, to a personal one, a partisan one. It’s fodder for an attack ad on his Republican opponents, for heavens’ sake.

Lincoln embedded Gettysberg in the American national mind as one of the most solemn, revered and recalled moments of American national experience. That’s why it’s infinitely more uplifting than what we’re seeing now — even if Lincoln never once appeared on YouTube.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Shared with the usual caveat.  Full story, photos at link.     It never ends so it seems.  Good catch, CIA.   

*US officials: CIA foils a new al-Qaida underwear bomb plot against an America-bound aircraft*
The Canadian PressBy Adam Goldman,Matt Apuzzo, The Associated Press | The Canadian Pres

WASHINGTON - The CIA thwarted an ambitious plot by al-Qaida's affiliate in Yemen to destroy a U.S.-bound airliner using a bomb with a sophisticated new design around the one-year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden, The Associated Press has learned.

The plot involved an upgrade of the underwear bomb that failed to detonate aboard a jetliner over Detroit in on Dec. 25, 2009. This new bomb also was designed to be used in a passenger's underwear, but this time al-Qaida developed a more refined detonation system, U.S. officials said.

Read more


----------



## daftandbarmy

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Shared with the usual caveat.  Full story, photos at link.     It never ends so it seems.  Good catch, CIA.
> 
> *US officials: CIA foils a new al-Qaida underwear bomb plot against an America-bound aircraft*
> The Canadian PressBy Adam Goldman,Matt Apuzzo, The Associated Press | The Canadian Pres
> 
> WASHINGTON - The CIA thwarted an ambitious plot by al-Qaida's affiliate in Yemen to destroy a U.S.-bound airliner using a bomb with a sophisticated new design around the one-year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden, The Associated Press has learned.
> 
> The plot involved an upgrade of the underwear bomb that failed to detonate aboard a jetliner over Detroit in on Dec. 25, 2009. This new bomb also was designed to be used in a passenger's underwear, but this time al-Qaida developed a more refined detonation system, U.S. officials said.
> 
> Read more



Just say 'no' to nuclear wedgies!  ;D


----------



## Rifleman62

This is especially for tomahawk6

http://sbynews.blogspot.ca/2012/05/how-gutsiest-president-ever-single.html

Monday, May 07, 2012

*How The Gutsiest President Ever Single-Handedly Killed OBL *

Part 1 of 2


----------



## Rifleman62

*How The Gutsiest President Ever Single-Handedly Killed OBL*

Part 2 of 2


----------



## tomahawk6

Funny stuff Rifleman. ;D


----------



## OldSolduer

That's nothing! Stephen Harper could have taken him out with a straw and a spitball!!!


Too funny Rifleman!


----------



## medicineman

Jeez, I could have done that from here...of course, I'd have hit him entirely by accident the way I golf.

But hey, a win's a win  ;D.

MM


----------



## jollyjacktar

An update.  Shared under the provisions of Sec. 29 of the copyright act.

*Underpants 'bomber' was a DOUBLE AGENT who delivered device to CIA... and then pinpointed location of mastermind for fatal drone attack*
By Rob Cooper

PUBLISHED: 22:59 GMT, 8 May 2012

An Al Qaeda bomber sent to blow up a U.S.-bound airliner was actually a double agent who infiltrated the group and volunteered for the suicide mission, it has been revealed.  Saudi Arabia's intelligence agency placed the undercover operator inside Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) where he convinced his handlers to give him the new type of non-metallic bomb.  The agent, who was in Yemen, was liaising with the CIA before handing the device over to intelligence services...

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141573/Underwear-bomber-CIA-double-agent-located-al-Qaeda-mastermind-Yemen-drone-attack.html#ixzz1uPWVwNzs


----------



## FlyingDutchman

So today I found out that OBL was really killed by American children kidnapped by the government with psychic powers, and that really big star in the sky isn't really Venus but an alien mothership.  Oh, and oil prices are controlled by a secret organization of albino africans.

Oh the interesting people who come to my work.

Obama in the compound witha golf club.  Sounds like a game of Clue.


----------



## a_majoor

Another book coming out. I wonder how the various sides will spin this story? (Frankly, by now so many people have already spun the story that finding the truth will take many years of careful forensic searching through libraries, reports and witness statements of the people actually there). One interesting question this raises is what possible motive would Jarrett have to urge the President to go either way?:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/29/obama-canceled-bin-laden-kill-raid-three-times-valerie-jarrett/



> *Book bombshell: Obama canceled Bin Laden ‘kill’ raid three times at Jarrett’s urging*
> Published: 9:10 PM 07/29/2012
> By David Martosko
> Executive Editor
> Bio | Archive | Email David Martosko  Follow David Martosko
> 
> David Martosko is The Daily Caller's executive editor. He is the father of two, a frequent public speaker, and a graduate of Dartmouth College and the Johns Hopkins University.
> 
> President Barack Obama walks with senior adviser Valerie Jarrett in the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago, Illinois on June 2, 2012. (YURI GRIPAS/AFP/GettyImages)
> 
> At the urging of Valerie Jarrett, President Barack Obama canceled the operation to kill Osama bin Laden on three separate occasions before finally approving the May 2, 2011 Navy SEAL mission, according to an explosive new book scheduled for release August 21. The Daily Caller has seen a portion of the chapter in which the stunning revelation appears.
> 
> In ”Leading From Behind: The Reluctant President and the Advisors Who Decide for Him,“ Richard Miniter writes that Obama canceled the “kill” mission in January 2011, again in February, and a third time in March. Obama’s close adviser Valerie Jarrett persuaded him to hold off each time, according to the book.
> 
> Miniter, a two-time New York Times best-selling author, cites an unnamed source with Joint Special Operations Command who had direct knowledge of the operation and its planning.
> 
> Obama administration officials also said after the raid that the president had delayed giving the order to kill the arch-terrorist the day before the operation was carried out, in what turned out to be his fourth moment of indecision. At the time, the White House blamed the delay on unfavorable weather conditions near bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
> 
> But when Miniter obtained that day’s weather reports from the U.S. Air Force Combat Meteorological Center, he said, they showed ideal conditions for the SEALs to carry out their orders.
> 
> “President Obama’s greatest success was actually his greatest failure,” Miniter told The Daily Caller Friday. ”Leading From Behind,“ he said, traces the arc of six key Obama administration decisions, and shows how the president made them — and, often, failed to make them.
> 
> Another chapter, he told TheDC, concerns the push to pass the Affordable Care Act. The president, Miniter said, was less interested than then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in passing his own signature legislative achievement.
> 
> Osama bin Laden steered the global operations of the al-Qaida terror network until his death last year at the hands of the U.S. Navy’s SEAL Team Six. The president and his surrogates have made the terrorist leader’s death a focal point in Obama’s re-election campaign, painting Obama as a decisive leader who took down America’s greatest mortal enemy.
> 
> Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/29/obama-canceled-bin-laden-kill-raid-three-times-valerie-jarrett/#ixzz228rovQT6


----------



## Old Sweat

I'm going to have to adopt a wait and see attitude to this.


----------



## Brad Sallows

1. He's still dead.
2. The quest to kill him did not start in Jan 2009.


----------



## tomahawk6

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> 1. He's still dead.
> 2. The quest to kill him did not start in Jan 2009.



I'm with Brad. The decision was made and the guys at the pointy end got the job done.


----------



## observor 69

A response to "Group says Obama revealed secret information to Hollywood filmmakers."


"Days after the (Osama bin Laden) raid, Hollywood was invited into the White House so that they could receive a briefing" that revealed intelligence sources and methods.

Group says Obama revealed secret information to Hollywood filmmakers

A video that describes the importance of secrecy in national security missions and the dangers of leaks.

 A new group of former special forces soldiers and CIA officers has produced a video that accuses Barack Obama of revealing sensitive intelligence information for cheap political gain. Calling itself Special Operations OPSEC (short for Operations Security), the group’s 20-minute video spends a great deal of time on the administration’s actions after the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. The group says it favors no candidate, but the frequent images of Obama (each time they say the word 'politician') leave no doubt that he is the target.

More at LINK.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

(Apologies, as there are a few locations I felt this article may be relevant to. Please move accordingly if you feel it best elsewhere.)

http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313

The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden... Is Screwed

For the first time, the Navy SEAL who killed Osama bin Laden tells his story — speaking not just about the raid and the three shots that changed history, but about the personal aftermath for himself and his family. And the startling failure of the United States government to help its most experienced and skilled warriors carry on with their lives.


Published in the March 2013 issue

Phil Bronstein is the former editor of the San Francisco Chronicle and currently serves as executive chairman of the Center for Investigative Reporting. This piece was reported in cooperation with CIR.




The man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden sat in a wicker chair in my backyard, wondering how he was going to feed his wife and kids or pay for their medical care.

It was a mild spring day, April 2012, and our small group, including a few of his friends and family, was shielded from the sun by the patchwork shadows of maple trees. But the Shooter was sweating as he talked about his uncertain future, his plans to leave the Navy and SEAL Team 6.

He stood up several times with an apologetic gripe about the heat, leaving a perspiration stain on the seat-back cushion. He paced. I didn't know him well enough then to tell whether a glass of his favorite single malt, Lagavulin, was making him less or more edgy.

We would end up intimately familiar with each other's lives. We'd have dinners, lots of Scotch. He's played with my kids and my dogs and been a hilarious, engaging gentleman around my wife.

In my yard, the Shooter told his story about joining the Navy at nineteen, after a girl broke his heart. To escape, he almost by accident found himself in a Navy recruiter's office. "He asked me what I was going to do with my life. I told him I wanted to be a sniper.

"He said, 'Hey, we have snipers.'

"I said, 'Seriously, dude. You do not have snipers in the Navy.' But he brought me into his office and it was a pretty sweet deal. I signed up on a whim."

"That's the reason Al Qaeda has been decimated," he joked, "because she broke my ******* heart."

I would come to know about the Shooter's hundreds of combat missions, his twelve long-term SEAL-team deployments, his thirty-plus kills of enemy combatants, often eyeball to eyeball. And we would talk for hours about the mission to get bin Laden and about how, over the celebrated corpse in front of them on a tarp in a hangar in Jalalabad, he had given the magazine from his rifle with all but three lethally spent bullets left in it to the female CIA analyst whose dogged intel work and intuition led the fighters into that night.

When I was first around him, as he talked I would always try to imagine the Shooter geared up and a foot away from bin Laden, whose life ended in the next moment with three shots to the center of his forehead. But my mind insisted on rendering the picture like a bad Photoshop job — Mao's head superimposed on the Yangtze, or tourists taking photos with cardboard presidents outside the White House.

Bin Laden was, after all, the man CIA director Leon Panetta called "the most infamous terrorist in our time," who devoured inordinate amounts of our collective cultural imagery for more than a decade. The number-one celebrity of evil. And the man in my backyard blew his lights out.

ST6 in particular is an enterprise requiring extraordinary teamwork, combined with more kinds of support in the field than any other unit in the history of the U.S. military.

Similarly, NASA marshaled thousands of people to put a man on the moon, and history records that Neil Armstrong first set his foot there, not the equally talented Buzz Aldrin.

Enough people connected to the SEALs and the bin Laden mission have confirmed for me that the Shooter was the "number two" behind the raid's point man going up the stairs to bin Laden's third-floor residence, and that he is the one who rolled through the bedroom door solo and confronted the surprisingly tall terrorist pushing his youngest wife, Amal, in front of him through the pitch-black room. The Shooter had to raise his gun higher than he expected.

The point man is the only one besides the Shooter who could verify the kill shots firsthand, and he did just that to another SEAL I spoke with. But even the point man was not in the room then, having tackled two women into the hallway, a crucial and heroic decision given that everyone living in the house was presumed to be wearing a suicide vest.

But a series of confidential conversations, detailed descriptions of mission debriefs, and other evidence make it clear: The Shooter's is the most definitive account of those crucial few seconds, and his account, corroborated by multiple sources, establishes him as the last man to see Osama bin Laden alive. Not in dispute is the fact that others have claimed that they shot bin Laden when he was already dead, and a number of team members apparently did just that.

What is much harder to understand is that a man with hundreds of successful war missions, one of the most decorated combat veterans of our age, who capped his career by terminating bin Laden, has no landing pad in civilian life.

Back in April, he and some of his SEAL Team 6 colleagues had formed the skeleton of a company to help them transition out of the service. In my yard, he showed everyone his business-card mock-ups. There was only a subtle inside joke reference to their team in the company name.

Unlike former SEAL Team 6 member Matt Bissonnette (No Easy Day), they do not rush to write books or step forward publicly, because that violates the code of the "quiet professional." Someone suggested they might sell customized sunglasses and other accessories special operators often invent and use in the field. It strains credulity that for a commando team leader who never got a single one of his men hurt on a mission, sunglasses would be his best option. And it's a simple truth that those who have been most exposed to harrowing danger for the longest time during our recent unending wars now find themselves adrift in civilian life, trying desperately to adjust, often scrambling just to make ends meet.

At the time, the Shooter's uncle had reached out to an executive at Electronic Arts, hoping that the company might need help with video-game scenarios once the Shooter retired. But the uncle cannot mention his nephew's distinguishing feature as the one who put down bin Laden.

Secrecy is a thick blanket over our Special Forces that inelegantly covers them, technically forever. The twenty-three SEALs who flew into Pakistan that night were directed by their command the day they got back stateside about acting and speaking as though it had never happened.

"Right now we are pretty stacked with consultants," the video-game man responded. "Thirty active and recently retired guys" for one game: Medal of Honor Warfighter. In fact, seven active-duty Team 6 SEALs would later be punished for advising EA while still in the Navy and supposedly revealing classified information. (One retired SEAL, a participant in the bin Laden raid, was also involved.)

With the focus and precision he's learned, the Shooter waits and watches for the right way to exit, and adapt. Despite his foggy future, his past is deeply impressive. This is a man who is very pleased about his record of service to his country and has earned the respect of his peers.

"He's taken monumental risks," says the Shooter's dad, struggling to contain the frustration that roughs the edges of his deep pride in his son. "But he's unable to reap any reward."

It's not that there isn't one. The U.S. government put a $25 million bounty on bin Laden that no one is likely to collect. Certainly not the SEALs who went on the mission nor the support and intelligence experts who helped make it all possible. Technology is the key to success in this case more than people, Washington officials have said.

The Shooter doesn't care about that. "I'm not religious, but I always felt I was put on the earth to do something specific. After that mission, I knew what it was."

Others also knew, from the commander-in-chief on down. The bin Laden shooting was a staple of presidential-campaign brags. One big-budget movie, several books, and a whole drawerful of documentaries and TV films have fortified the brave images of the Shooter and his ST6 Red Squadron members.

There is commerce attached to the mission, and people are capitalizing. Just not the triggerman. While others collect, he is cautious and careful not to dishonor anyone. His manners come at his own expense.

"No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job," Barack Obama said last Veterans' Day, "or a roof over their head, or the care that they have earned when they come home."

But the Shooter will discover soon enough that when he leaves after sixteen years in the Navy, his body filled with scar tissue, arthritis, tendonitis, eye damage, and blown disks, here is what he gets from his employer and a grateful nation:

Nothing. No pension, no health care, and no protection for himself or his family.

Since Abbottabad, he has trained his children to hide in their bathtub at the first sign of a problem as the safest, most fortified place in their house. His wife is familiar enough with the shotgun on their armoire to use it. She knows to sit on the bed, the weapon's butt braced against the wall, and precisely what angle to shoot out through the bedroom door, if necessary. A knife is also on the dresser should she need a backup.

Then there is the "bolt" bag of clothes, food, and other provisions for the family meant to last them two weeks in hiding.

"Personally," his wife told me recently, "I feel more threatened by a potential retaliatory terror attack on our community than I did eight years ago," when her husband joined ST6.

When the White House identified SEAL Team 6 as those responsible, camera crews swarmed into their Virginia Beach neighborhood, taking shots of the SEALs' homes.

After bin Laden's face appeared on their TV in the days after the killing, the Shooter cautioned his older child not to mention the Al Qaeda leader's name ever again "to anybody. It's a bad name, a curse name." His kid started referring to him instead as "Poopyface." It's a story he told affectionately on that April afternoon visit to my home.

He loves his kids and tears up only when he talks about saying goodbye to them before each and every deployment. "It's so much easier when they're asleep," he says, "and I can just kiss them, wondering if this is the last time." He's thrilled to show video of his oldest in kick-boxing class. And he calls his wife "the perfect mother."

In fact, the couple is officially separated, a common occurrence in ST6. SEAL marriages can be perilous. Husbands and fathers have been mostly away from their families since 9/11. But the Shooter and his wife continue to share a house on very friendly, even loving terms, largely to save money.

"We're actually looking into changing my name," the wife says. "Changing the kids' names, taking my husband's name off the house, paying off our cars. Essentially deleting him from our lives, but for safety reasons. We still love each other."

When the family asked about any kind of government protection should the Shooter's name come out, they were advised that they could go into a witness-protection-like program.

Just as soon as the Department of Defense creates one.

"They [SEAL command] told me they could get me a job driving a beer truck in Milwaukee" under an assumed identity. Like Mafia snitches, they would not be able to contact their families or friends. "We'd lose everything."

"These guys have millions of dollars' worth of knowledge and training in their heads," says one of the group at my house, a former SEAL and mentor to the Shooter and others looking to make the transition out of what's officially called the Naval Special Warfare Development Group. "All sorts of executive function skills. That shouldn't go to waste."

The mentor himself took a familiar route — through Blackwater, then to the CIA, in both organizations as a paramilitary operator in Afghanistan.

Private security still seems like the smoothest job path, though many of these guys, including the Shooter, do not want to carry a gun ever again for professional use. The deaths of two contractors in Benghazi, both former SEALs the mentor knew, remind him that the battlefield risks do not go away.

By the time the Shooter visited me that first time in April, I had come to know more of the human face of what's called Tier One Special Operations, in addition to the extraordinary skill and icy resolve. It is a privileged, consuming, and concerning look inside one of the most insular clubs on earth.

And I understood that he would face a world very different from the supportive one President Obama described at Arlington National Cemetery a few months before.

As I watched the Shooter navigate obstacles very different from the ones he faced so expertly in four war zones around the globe, I wondered: Is this how America treats its heroes? The ones President Obama called "the best of the best"? The ones Vice-President Biden called "the finest warriors in the history of the world"?


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## 57Chevy

This guy should consider getting out of the US.
Maybe even come to Canada after changing his name.
Bring the wife and kids too but
leave your armoury in the US  :camo:


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## Gorgo

Reading what Beyond The Now posted above is really sad to me.  These guys take enormous risks for their nation and said nation doesn't seem to care about what they're going through . . . just like a lot of 9/11 responders were left in the lurch after the cleanup was done.  :facepalm:


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## Container

I am almost certain that the armed forces has education programs available for retraining upon leaving the military. 
http://www.gibill.va.gov/

I do understand what the article is trying to impart and I get it- but I think thats its odd to think that somebody spends most of their time and learnin' on running a gun and the skills around,wants to leave that life and not be employed in the area that all (a bit of an exageration) their skills and knowledge is in. Obviously there are transferable skills- but what job is it exactly that should be given to him?


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## cupper

An update with some deep consequences:

*Report: DOD probes Osama bin Laden shooter*

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/report-dod-probes-osama-shooter-87837.html?hp=r15



> The military is investigating if the ex-Navy SEAL who shot Osama bin Laden leaked classified information when he talked to Esquire magazine for a profile, according to a report.
> 
> “We are taking a look at this article to see if any classified information got spilled out,” Pentagon spokesman Army Lt. Col. Steve Warren said, according to Bloomberg News.
> 
> The article, entitled “The Shooter: The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden is … Screwed,” contained details of the raid and of the former Navy SEAL’s struggles with the Department of Veterans Affairs since leaving the armed services.
> 
> The Center for Investigative Reporting had no comment on the Pentagon’s review, Bloomberg said.
> 
> This isn’t the first time a SEAL has been investigated for leaking information about the bin Laden raid. Former Navy SEAL Matt Bissonette wrote a best-seller, “No Easy Day,” about his life in the Navy and the raid that killed bin Laden.
> 
> The Pentagon said in September the book contained classified information, but no legal action has been taken, beyond exchanging letters with Bissonette’s lawyers.


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## dapaterson

:Tin-Foil-Hat:

The CBC reports that OBL wandered around wearing a cowboy hat to avoid detection in Pakistan.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/07/09/osama-bin-laden-life-on-the-run-pakistan-report.html

 :cowboy:

Therefore, people wearing cowboy hats are international terrorist masterminds.

Puts the Calgary Stampede in a whole new light...


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## Edward Campbell

And now, Seymour Hersh says it was (partially) a fake, in an article published in the _London Review of Books_.

The _White House_ says Hersh is mistaken, to be charitable, and many American journalists have problems with his story, too.

The crux of Hersh's story is that, Yes, the Navy SEALs did raid the compound and kill Bin L:aden, but, he says:

     1. Obama lied about _how_ the US found him; Obama said they followed a courier, Hersh says they got a tip from a Pakistani intelligence officer ... and paid millions for it; and

     2. There was a pre-planned cover story from the Pentagon which would have said Obama Bin Laden was found, dead, in the mountains and his death was verified by DNA. The aim of this "cover story" was to keep Pakistan out of it all,
         but Obama decided, at the last moment, that he needed the new, false, story immediately for his re-election campaign and he was worried that Defence Secretary Gates (a Republican) might leak the truth at an inopportune time.


Edit: to get the names right!  :-[  Thanks Milnews.


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## The Bread Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> .... 2. There was a pre-planned cover story from the Pentagon which would have said Obama was found, dead, in the mountains and his death was verified by DNA ....


The lengths the critics of the president will go to to prove he really IS Muslim


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## cupper

> Quote from: E.R. Campbell on Today at 15:42:00
> .... 2. There was a pre-planned cover story from the Pentagon which would have said Obama was found, dead, in the mountains and his death was verified by DNA ....





			
				milnews.ca said:
			
		

> The lengths the critics of the president will go to to prove he really IS Muslim



 :rofl:


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## CougarKing

One journalist's report alleging the raid that killed Bin Laden went differently from official accounts is drawing denials from the US government.

Defense News



> *White House Rebuts Journalist's Claim on OBL Raid*
> 
> WASHINGTON — The White House on Monday flatly rejected claims that Pakistan was told in advance about a 2011 special operations raid that killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.
> 
> *Veteran US journalist Seymour Hersh claimed in a British publication that Pakistan's security services not only knew about the raid, but had been holding bin Laden prisoner since 2006.
> 
> That account was rejected by the White House.*
> 
> (...SNIPPED)


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## Brad Sallows

Let the conspiracy freaks geek out, as long as OBL is still dead.


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## OldSolduer

:Tin-Foil-Hat:





			
				Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> Let the conspiracy freaks geek out, as long as OBL is still dead.



I'm looking into buying shares in Alcan.


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## cupper

What the F does it matter? He's dead.

How that was achieved stopped being relevant when the original news cycle died, and Obama was re-elected.


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## Colin Parkinson

Well it is possible that they paid for info and it is likely that the Pakistani ISI was playing a double game and attempted to sell OBL for some other favour. What passes for reality in Pakistan is like some weird conspiracy fiction in a normal country. The important bit is they killed him without losing any SF guys.


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## Edward Campbell

cupper said:
			
		

> What the F does it matter? He's dead.
> 
> How that was achieved stopped being relevant when the original news cycle died, and Obama was re-elected.




It _might_ matter because of who was "in the room" and, we should assume, "in the loop" with President Obama when it all went down ... she's campaigning for election next year.


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## Jarnhamar

cupper said:
			
		

> What the F does it matter? He's dead.



Important for books by Navy SEALs, video games and movies.


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## cupper

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> It _might_ matter because of who was "in the room" and, we should assume, "in the loop" with President Obama when it all went down ... she's campaigning for election next year.



OK. I'll give you the Joe Biden card. Well played. >

Actually, I don't think that will be an issue WRT Clinton's electability. However, Benghazi will be.


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## The Bread Guy

And from the "apple not falling far from the tree" file ...


> Growing up, Hamza Bin Laden had some big shoes to fill.
> 
> His daddy, Osama, was a world-famous piece of human garbage. He got to live in caves, and had a really long beard. He even had a giant stash of porn all to himself. Everyone wanted him dead. In fact, the FBI put a $25 million bounty on his head. Then, in May 2011, that head was split in half like a log by a big, scary Navy SEAL before his daddy’s corpse was tossed into the ocean.
> 
> Now, little Hamza is all grown up and determined to follow in his daddy’s footsteps. Last week, the prodigal son released a 10-minute audio message accompanied by footage of past terrorist attacks. In it, Hamza calls on followers to attack Jews, Americans, Westerners, and Russians, just as his daddy had done. “If you are able to pick up a firearm, well and good; if not, the options are many,” he says in the video, which was obtained by SITE Intelligence Group.
> 
> The recording is part of a series of videos that Hamza has been featured in recently, according to experts interviewed by CNN. In fact, it appears that he is now being groomed to become the new face of al Qaeda ...


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## jollyjacktar

I read that last week.  Hopefully Seal Team 6 will be able to arrange a Father/Son reunion in the not too far distant future.


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## The Bread Guy

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I read that last week.  Hopefully Seal Team 6 will be able to arrange a Father/Son reunion in the not too far distant future.


Social media suggest you're not alone ...


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## Spencer100

Post script 

Osama's son dead

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/u-s-has-intel-osama-bin-laden-s-son-heir-n1037236


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