# All Things Richard Rohmer (merged)



## Hunter (29 Sep 2004)

On the way back from my visit to France in June for the 60th anniversary of D-day, I got into a conversation with a very nice couple on the shuttle at Toronto airport.  They were returning from France as well, and he had been part of the official ceremonies.  It turned out that he had flown a Mustang on D-day and retired as General.  I've also read some references to his books on this forum.  Are there any books by this author that anyone might recommend?

Thanks.


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## Brad Sallows (29 Sep 2004)

General Rohmer's book on his Normandy service is titled "Patton's Gap", if memory serves.  His apportionment of blame for the alleged failure to close the Falaise pocket was challenged by LCol (ret'd) Carlo D'Este in "Decision in Normandy".  I happen to agree with d'Este's estimation, so I haven't bothered to read Rohmer's book.  I suspect it might be like learning about phlogiston or luminiferous ether - interesting, but not particularly enlightening.


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## PPCLI Guy (29 Sep 2004)

If it is the same guy, you will find that he wrote a number of speculative political fiction books, including one where the US invades Canada - and is defeated (I believe that it is called Exxoneration).


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## LKG (17 Jan 2005)

Major-General Richard Rohmer just had his memoirs published in November. I got an advance copy and have read it - it is enjoyable, and exhibits a most interesting life. He is the most decorated Canadian alive, and his acquaintances are a whose who of the world.


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## Michael OLeary (17 Jan 2005)

LKG said:
			
		

> He is the most decorated Canadian alive, ..........



Did Smokey Smith die? For many of us, one Victoria Cross trumps any number of lower "orders."







Smokey Smith's medals are shown.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/10/29/cesena_smokeysmith041029.html

For the record, from http://wx.toronto.ca/inter/it/newsrel.nsf/0/4c71b0ac8e37999c85256df60045ca12?OpenDocument:



> Richard Rohmer is one of two persons who is both a Commander of the Order of Military Merit and an Officer of the Order of Canada. He holds the Jubilee Medal, the Centennial Medal, the Confederation (125 year) Medal, and the Canada Defence Medal (CD). In July 1989, he was appointed by H.M. King Beaudoin of Belgium to the Order of Leopold with the rank of Officer (OfL). In June 1997 he was appointed to the Order of Ontario (O.Ont) and is now a member of the Advisory Council of the Order of Ontario.


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## LKG (18 Jan 2005)

To quote your link:

"Richard Rohmer is Canada's most decorated citizen."

This is not to downplay one over the other. Both have made huge contributions that all should be proud of.


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## Michael OLeary (18 Jan 2005)

LKG said:
			
		

> This is not to downplay one over the other. Both have made huge contributions that all should be proud of.



Exactly, it's an unquantifiable accolade. And any such claims are only in the personal perspective of the speaker or writer. Which is why it deserved to be given some perspective.


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## Long in the tooth (18 Jan 2005)

I recall 25 years ago reading several of Gen Rohmer's novels.  Well paced and easy to digest, I found they often stereo typed certain characters.  There always seemed to be a Peter Lougheed, an anglicized Trudeau as PM, and a hard as*ed US President.  Pretty good but light reading, a less technical version of Tom Clancy.


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## Spanky (19 Jan 2005)

A couple of Rohmer stories:  He was chancellor of the University of Windsor for a few years and met him a couple of times there.  I read most of his fiction and a few of his non fiction.  Separation and Separation II were both good.  Ultimatim and Exxoneration were a part 1 and 2 as well.
We were doing a vital point excercise a number of years ago at Kincardine airport.  We were the quick reaction force in Bisons.  We received a message that a single engine cessna was landing with a drug dealer and went out to secure it as it landed.  We surrounded the plane and the troop had the pilot on the ground.  I was on the C6 supporting when I recognized the pilot.  I dashed out and spoke to the over enthusiastic young troop officer and told him who the pilot was.  Richard Rohmer had just flown in from Owen Sound to visit some friends.  He We got him up, dusted him off and apologized all over the place.  He was pretty good about it.  He played along with whole thing.  Seems he saw our shoulder titles and knew we were from Windsor.  Classy Guy.


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## The Bread Guy (29 May 2009)

From an LSUC news release:


> A former chief justice, a World War II fighter pilot, a former deputy minister, and two Superior Court of Justice judges will each receive the degree of Doctor of Laws, honoris causa (LL.D.), from the Law Society of Upper Canada.
> (....)
> Major-General Richard Rohmer, O.C., C.M.M., D.F.C., O. Ont., K.St.J., C.D., Of.L., Q.C., A.deC., LL.B, LL.D., and a Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneur, is Canada's most decorated citizen, a distinguished World War II fighter pilot, a D-Day veteran and served as Chief of Reserves of the Canadian Forces (1978 - 1981). He is an Honorary Aide de Camp to the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario. He is also an award-winning best-selling author of some 30 novels and non-fiction books. Currently a partner with the Toronto-based law firm of Rohmer & Fenn, he practises civil litigation with a focus on aviation law and land use matters, and is a mediator and arbitrator with ADR Chambers. He served as chancellor of the University of Windsor from 1978 through 1989 and from 1996 through 1997. He chaired the influential Royal Commission on Book Publishing from 1970 through 1972, and was counsel to the Robarts Royal Commission on Metropolitan Toronto.
> 
> ...



MGEN (ret'd) Rohmer's partial bibliography here.


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## The Bread Guy (22 Dec 2014)

This from the Info-machine:


> General Tom Lawson, Canada’s Chief of the Defence, is proud to name Major-General (Retired) Richard Rohmer, OC, CMM, DFC, O.Ont., KStJ, CD, OL, QC, BA, LLB, JD, LLD, Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneur, as the Honorary Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff.
> 
> The position of Honorary Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff was created to recognize MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer’s contributions to the Canadian Armed Forces, and the unique advice and guidance that he provides to the Chief of the Defence Staff, drawing from his wealth of experience in service to Canada.
> 
> ...


Only the tiniest speck of information re:  duties here:


> .... The position of Honorary Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff was created to recognize MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer’s contributions to the CAF, and the unique advice and guidance that he provides to the CDS drawing from his wealth of experience in service to Canada ....



 :Tin-Foil-Hat: part:  Last summer, the boss of the RCAF sought some help with the Honoraries, and while MERX says the work was awarded for $147,555.40 (see attached), no name has been given.  I'm waiting to hear from PWGSC re:  who won that one, but could this be a roll-up of sorts (even if the "retired no later than" specs in the original haven't been met here)?  Or is this apples and oranges?  More, as I get it (or not) from PWGSC ....


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## McG (22 Dec 2014)

Sounds like an "old boys network" sort of reward.  The CDS has staff whose job it is to advise him.  Creating an "honorary advisor" who is expected to actually advise, well that seems like a bit of a slight to those who are actually employed to do the job.


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## OldSolduer (22 Dec 2014)

:facepalm:

I am trying to refrain from comment but I can't help this - what next? Honorary Custodians cleaning our buildings?


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## Oldgateboatdriver (22 Dec 2014)

Rohmer is still around ??? I thought for sure he was dead by now. He's got to be over 90.

He was a (bad) serial novel writer in the 70's, a bit in the style of Tom Clancy, but for Canadian stories. They were weak.

He's also the guy who got the Kiowa's for the air reserve in about the same era.


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## Old Sweat (22 Dec 2014)

This is one of those things I will not comment on because of my respect for and friendship with the owner of this site. If that is too far out, mods please delate and deduct a ton of midpoints, but the gentleman in question may have some baggage.


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## expwor (22 Dec 2014)

Not the first honorary position he has held
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rohmer
He is the Honorary Deputy Commissioner of the OPP, Honorary Chief of Toronto EMS, Honorary Fire Chief of Collingwood, named First Honorary Chief Of Paramedics in Ontario, and Honorary Detective of the Toronto Police Service
He also negotiated the donation of Conrad Black's collection of Duplessis papers in exchange for an Honorary Degree
Caveat to this, the source to the above is Wikipedia
But interesting seeing as he is now Honorary Advisor to CDS

Tom


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## Tibbson (22 Dec 2014)

Lets hope someone in the CDS' office can pass on some advice to the M Gen.  http://wearingyourmedalswrong.blogspot.ca/2010/10/major-general-richard-rohmer-man-of.html


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## OldSolduer (23 Dec 2014)

Schindler's Lift said:
			
		

> Lets hope someone in the CDS' office can pass on some advice to the M Gen.  http://wearingyourmedalswrong.blogspot.ca/2010/10/major-general-richard-rohmer-man-of.html



I'm sure the CFCWO will get right on that. After he ensures the pips and crowns and new RCAF stuff is sorted out.


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## daftandbarmy (23 Dec 2014)

I think we really need to reinstate the position of 'Court Jester'. Although I might be a bit self-serving here as it seems I may qualify well for the position  ;D

Then come jesters, musicians and trained dwarfs,
 And singing girls from the land of Ti-ti,
 To delight the ear and eye
 And bring mirth to the mind.
—Sima Xiangru (ca. 179-117 B.C.), Rhapsody on the Shanglin Park

The recruiting of jesters was tremendously informal and meritocratic, perhaps indicating greater mobility and fluidity in past society than is often supposed. A man with the right qualifications might be found anywhere: in Russia "they were generally selected from among the older and uglier of the serf-servants, and the older the fool or she-fool was, the droller they were supposed and expected to be. The fool had the right to sit at table with his master, and say whatever came into his head." 

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/640914.html


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## Loachman (23 Dec 2014)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> He was a (bad) serial novel writer in the 70's, a bit in the style of Tom Clancy, but for Canadian stories. They were weak.



I remember those, and may still have copies somewhere. Your assessment is too kind.



			
				Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> He's also the guy who got the Kiowa's for the air reserve in about the same era.



The Air Militia was blessed with Kiowas around 1981-1982, when they received the Portage trainers as those were replaced with new Jet Rangers.


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## Edward Campbell (23 Dec 2014)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> This is one of those things I will not comment on because of my respect for and friendship with the owner of this site. If that is too far out, mods please delate and deduct a ton of midpoints, but the gentleman in question may have some baggage.




Well, I don't mind commenting, friendship notwithstanding: this is terminally f'ing stupid. The CDS is a f'ing disgrace and he is wasting taxpayers' money to "honour" and ass. The PM needs to fire them both, now ... for being twits.


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## OldSolduer (23 Dec 2014)

I like the idea of a Court Jester.  Of course that would be an officer classification.


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## Happy Guy (23 Dec 2014)

I remember reading one of his awful novels and his role as a military commentator to Global News (?) during the Falkland Islands war.  From what I can read Gen Rohmer is not exactly the court jester type nor would he want to play the role of one.

I do not know not what this role is for or how it can contribute to the CAF, but the question that I ask myself is why did the CDS ask him and what does he truly bring to the table on behalf of the CAF?  Influence?  If the answer is court jester then I'm truly sadden to know that the CAF, which I served for more than 30 years in, has lost its way.


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## OldSolduer (23 Dec 2014)

Not saying Mr. Rohmer should be a court jester.

And the CAF has lost its way, for a number of years now, starting with the stripping of combat support element from the infantry, the fight over stovepipe organizations and the sad state of our RCN and RCAF, not to mention the bloat in the various HQs.


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## The Bread Guy (23 Dec 2014)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> :Tin-Foil-Hat: part:  Last summer, the boss of the RCAF sought some help with the Honoraries, and while MERX says the work was awarded for $147,555.40 (see attached), no name has been given.  I'm waiting to hear from PWGSC re:  who won that one, but could this be a roll-up of sorts (even if the "retired no later than" specs in the original haven't been met here)?  Or is this apples and oranges?  More, as I get it (or not) from PWGSC ....


The latest on this:  the correct link to the award for the RCAF advisory position says the winning bidder was Landsdowne Technologies, whose team does NOT include Richard Rohmer.  It is, indeed, apples vs. oranges.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (23 Dec 2014)

expwor said:
			
		

> Not the first honorary position he has held
> From Wikipedia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rohmer
> He is the Honorary Deputy Commissioner of the OPP, Honorary Chief of Toronto EMS, Honorary Fire Chief of Collingwood, named First Honorary Chief Of Paramedics in Ontario, and Honorary Detective of the Toronto Police Service
> ...



I wouldn't trust his Wiki entry. I don't know who wrote it, but since it appears to contain lots of fiction, it could have been him /SARC OFF.

It says, for instance that he is still a practicing lawyer at his Law firm, but also that he has been appointed to the Court of Appeals of Ontario in 2012. That is not possible: Immediately upon being appointed to the bench of a Court, you must cease all law practice and you cease to be part of the law society you belonged to. Second, The Ontario court of Appeals, a federal appointment court has a specific and limited number of seats: there are no "honorary" appointments in law and the ON Court of Appeals does not list him as a judge. Finally, being appointed in 2012 would mean he would have been appointed at age 88, which is 13 years AFTER the compulsory retirement age for judges in canada.


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## mariomike (23 Dec 2014)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> I wouldn't trust his Wiki entry. I don't know who wrote it, but since it appears to contain lots of fiction, it could have been him /SARC OFF.



Don't know about the rest of it, but at least a small part of it is true:
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/171047806-mayor-rob-ford-shares-a-laugh-with-general-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QVGlvDUFjRyOGLT7a7pFjEjfmaXPGhklXAxKzTid6Yl2


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## expwor (23 Dec 2014)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> I wouldn't trust his Wiki entry. I don't know who wrote it, but since it appears to contain lots of fiction, it could have been him /SARC OFF.
> 
> It says, for instance that he is still a practicing lawyer at his Law firm, but also that he has been appointed to the Court of Appeals of Ontario in 2012. That is not possible: Immediately upon being appointed to the bench of a Court, you must cease all law practice and you cease to be part of the law society you belonged to. Second, The Ontario court of Appeals, a federal appointment court has a specific and limited number of seats: there are no "honorary" appointments in law and the ON Court of Appeals does not list him as a judge. Finally, being appointed in 2012 would mean he would have been appointed at age 88, which is 13 years AFTER the compulsory retirement age for judges in canada.



I don't trust Wikipedia, hence making sure not just once but twice, once as a caveat, I cited it as my source if you will, of "information"
But I found it interesting under the circumstances of him being named Honorary Advisor to CDS, to see a listing of other "honorary" appointments

Tom


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## Happy Guy (23 Dec 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Not saying Mr. Rohmer should be a court jester.
> 
> And the CAF has lost its way, for a number of years now, starting with the stripping of combat support element from the infantry, the fight over stovepipe organizations and the sad state of our RCN and RCAF, not to mention the bloat in the various HQs.


The inf bn lost the combat support elements in the mid-1990s with personnel cutbacks, but many of the units lost what was considered important combat capabilities.
Being in NDHQ now for six months I see stovepipes organizations but many of the problems are a combination of ignorance of how the system is supposed to work and personalities conflicts.
It has been well known to the RCAF, RCN and now the CA that our collective future modernization projects are in danger and something has to give.
As for bloated HQs, I concur HQ CJOC and the environment's HQs are still bloated.
I do not a see vast difference between the previous and current governments.
I'm getting deja vu with the "decade of darkness".
Back to the topic I do not see Gen Rohmer as a court jester.


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## Edward Campbell (23 Dec 2014)

Happy Guy said:
			
		

> ...
> Back to the topic I do not see Gen Rohmer as a court jester.




He's not the _court jester_ but he and his appointment as an 'honorary advisor,' whatever that is, are both wastes of time and money. I know it's not much money, but it's some and, worse, it is indicative of a HQ, a command _superstructure_, and, indeed, a capital city that is out of touch ... the CF needs a new paint job: a whole helluva lots less gold and brass (admirals and generals) and a lot more grey and green (ships, soldiers, trucks, weapons and aircraft).

I suggest we can start reducing the useless gold and brass by firing both Gens Lawson and Rohmer ... _"pour encourager les autres."_


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## Halifax Tar (23 Dec 2014)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> He's not the _court jester_ but he and his appointment as an 'honorary advisor,' whatever that is, are both wastes of time and money. I know it's not much money, but it's some and, worse, it is indicative of a HQ, a command _superstructure_, and, indeed, a capital city that is out of touch ... the CF needs a new paint job: a whole helluva lots less gold and brass (admirals and generals) and a lot more grey and green (ships, soldiers, trucks, weapons and aircraft).
> 
> I suggest we can start reducing the useless gold and brass by firing both Gens Lawson and Rohmer ... _"pour encourager les autres."_



Lol don't hold back ERC tell us how you really feel.  

Really the only ones who care are us...  And we don't represent that much voting power.


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## Happy Guy (23 Dec 2014)

The vast majority of us in the CAF care because we are professionals.

Senior military or influential people read this forum and they report back to the grownups about the "feelings" here.  As evidence I refer to the the National Defence Dress Committee minutes that were suddenly changed once a member of this forum announced certain sections concerning the pips and crowns.

Like the majority of the people in the forum we don't understand the need or requirement for this position except perhaps this was done as a last gesture to a WWII verteran who served his country with dignity and honour.  One thing is certain though, NDHQ strategic messaging failed, with this announcement, with the serving members of the CAF.


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## OldSolduer (23 Dec 2014)

Maybe that is the CDS intent, but it stinks.


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## expwor (23 Dec 2014)

Happy Guy said:
			
		

> The vast majority of us in the CAF care because we are professionals.
> 
> Senior military or influential people read this forum and they report back to the grownups about the "feelings" here.  As evidence I refer to the the National Defence Dress Committee minutes that were suddenly changed once a member of this forum announced certain sections concerning the pips and crowns.
> 
> Like the majority of the people in the forum we don't understand the need or requirement for this position except perhaps this was done as a last gesture to a WWII verteran who served his country with dignity and honour.  One thing is certain though, NDHQ strategic messaging failed, with this announcement, with the serving members of the CAF.



Maybe the intent, but how many WWII veterans who also served their country with dignity and honour have been afforded similar such posts.  My question, and a question, is what is so special about Gen Rohmer compared to all other veterans to be given such a plum posting
But what do I know, I'm a civie looking from the outside in

Tom


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## OldSolduer (23 Dec 2014)

One thing I have noticed is that this CDS doesn't communicate all that well, nor does he inspire confidence in the troops. This is one example of it.


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## PuckChaser (24 Dec 2014)

But they needed a fighter pilot to talk fighter stuff for the F-35s, whether he was the best man for the job or not.

I find the CFCWO on the other hand to be a fantastic speaker, and fills his role extremely well. Seems to make the effort to get out and speak with the troops as much as possible.


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## Mick (24 Dec 2014)

I will admit that I do not quite understand the animosity / anger towards this _Honorary_ appointment (nor do I really understand the necessity of it).  

The DND release very clearly states that the appointment has been made expressly to "recognize MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer’s contributions to the CAF," in addition to "formaliz[ing] the long-standing relationship MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer has maintained with the most senior leadership of the CAF since his retirement in 1981."

As with other _Honorary_ appointments, it stands to reason that it is an unpaid position.  Clearly Mr. Rohmer has CAF uniforms already in his possession (as he has had for decades).

Does anyone actually believe that as an _Honorary_ Advisor appointed primarily in recognition of previous distinguished military service, he will have any role whatsoever in actually advising the CDS in place of his actual staff of advisors, assistants, and subordinates, or that he will be paid?

More realistically, it is merely a gesture not unlike an _Honorary_ appointment in the OPP or EMS organizations to which Mr. Rohmer has previously been appointed.

Can anyone seriously argue that this _Honorary_ appointment will be expensive, or somehow usurp authority/influence from the CDS's currently-serving, full-time, actual advisors?

I only ask because I interpreted the appointment as an attempt to recognize a prominent military veteran, not the creation of an expensive and influential advisory office.


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## armyvern (24 Dec 2014)

mick said:
			
		

> I will admit that I do not quite understand the animosity / anger towards this _Honorary_ appointment (nor do I really understand the necessity of it).
> 
> The DND release very clearly states that the appointment has been made expressly to "recognize MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer’s contributions to the CAF," in addition to "formaliz[ing] the long-standing relationship MGen (Ret’d) Rohmer has maintained with the most senior leadership of the CAF since his retirement in 1981."
> 
> ...



It's the growth of yet more brass at a time when we need boots on the ground, less HQs and, yes, less officers -- especially of the staff type (many of whom[most??] forget that they are indeed staff, not command, these days).

Expensive? No, but just more money being needlessly wasted on buttons, bows, forced reversion to outdated rank insignias that not of our generation and which _we_ did not wear into _our_ generation's battles, and more needless positions - even if _Honorary_ at the expense of tactical level needs.

Will the money saved on his travel expense claims buy us anything too special instead? No, but tally that up with all the other harkening back to yesteryear that has been occurring for the past few years and the troops could probably have some damn winter boots because, meanwhile, down here in the lowlands midst Canadian winter ... Canadian troops who don't sit on their duffs in offices are still finding that mukluks (winter boots!) are *still* RESTRICTED issue for the second winter in a row.  Just brilliant.


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## Edward Campbell (24 Dec 2014)

expwor said:
			
		

> Maybe the intent, but how many WWII veterans who also served their country with dignity and honour have been afforded similar such posts.  My question, and a question, is what is so special about Gen Rohmer compared to all other veterans to be given such a plum posting
> But what do I know, I'm a civie looking from the outside in
> 
> Tom




And that, Tom, is what _I believe_ is the crux of the matter.

I suppose I'm the "whiner-in-chief" here, the guy about whom mick worries ... my objection is not to "honoraries," _per se_, they've been around since Jesus was a lance jack and, until recently, they were, by and large retired folks with some attachment to the unit they served. (I will admit to some concerns about some recent appointments that exhibit little real _connection_ to the units or formations, despite being civic leaders or, in a few cases, _celebrities_.) My objection is to MGen (ret'd) Rohmer; I don't think his service is all that special ... in fact I'll go farther and say that _I think_ he is a self important ass. That's my opinion, only, and it's worth exactly what you're paying for it.  


Edited to add: and that's my last. I've said enough, perhaps too much, about this.


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## Mick (24 Dec 2014)

I understand frustration based on a perception that resources are being allocated to window-dressing, rather than operational needs (pips and crowns vs. mukluks).

I would question, however, whether an honorary appointment can really be considered as HQ growth, or realistically be seen as a position that exists _at the expense_ of established (i.e. non-honorary) positions.

If the answer is yes, should unit/branch-level honoraries (HCol / HLCol / Col Cmdt / HCapt(N)) be abolished / reduced?  Do Army Reserve units need both Col and LCol honorary appointments?

Finally, out of curiosity, can anyone here speak to how honoraries' expenses are handled (whose budget takes the hit)?


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## OldSolduer (24 Dec 2014)

Well said Vern. 

It's the perception of the CDS taking care of a museum fossil and a person in a position of privilege already vice taking care of his troops. ..that pesky Principle of Leadership....."Know your troops and promote their welfare".


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## The Bread Guy (24 Dec 2014)

mick said:
			
		

> I would question, however, whether an honorary appointment can really be considered as HQ growth, or realistically be seen as a position that exists _at the expense_ of established (i.e. non-honorary) positions.


It's also a question of priorities.  

To pick one example, does one spend time/effort getting a former General an extra title, or does one spend time/effort getting mukluks to an military that's supposed to be, among other tasks, protecting places where mukluks are NEEDED (not preferred).


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## observor 69 (24 Dec 2014)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> This is one of those things I will not comment on because of my respect for and friendship with the owner of this site. If that is too far out, mods please delate and deduct a ton of midpoints, but the gentleman in question may have some baggage.



I think I know where you are going with this and as a lay person watching him over the years I have the same sentiment.


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## rmc_wannabe (24 Dec 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Well said Vern.
> 
> It's the perception of the CDS taking care of a museum fossil and a person in a position of privilege already vice taking care of his troops. ..that pesky Principle of Leadership.....



 It seems a lot of those principles are forgotten once they take on a junior staff role.


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## daftandbarmy (26 Dec 2014)

mick said:
			
		

> I only ask because I interpreted the appointment as an attempt to recognize a prominent military veteran, not the creation of an expensive and influential advisory office.



Then give him a CDS coin, and a damend good pat on the back and send him back to the old folks' home?  :


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Dec 2014)

He was Chancellor at the University of Windsor, back in the 70's. My liberal, artsy farsty, naval reservist sister bought one of his books and had it autographed for me, when I went Reg Force.

I managed to read the first chapter and put it down. It's on my shelf, for almost, 45 years.

I have never felt compelled to pick it up again.

Perhaps I'll carve out the pages and hide a pistol in it.

No civilized and educated person will ever find it there, and Darwin award types won't go near the book case.

Lastly, if he's so concerned about the plight of Veterans, he should put his law firm against the Feds.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (28 Dec 2014)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> One thing I have noticed is that this CDS doesn't communicate all that well, nor does he inspire confidence in the troops. This is one example of it.



And this surprises you? He is Air Force*.

In the 70's and early 80's, we had an old joke about CDS' selection:

"If you want good leadership, pick a General; good administration, pick an Admiral, and for good politics, pick an Air General."

I would like to point out that when the CDS last changed, there was an Admiral in the running. A tough but fair good communicator who had excellent administrative skills and a fair record behind him of leaving organizations in excellent shape, but also the balls to tell powers that be to stuff it when needed (all of this my personal view) but we did not get Admiral Donalson, we got an Air General, just as we entered a phase of budget restrictions that would have called for a good administrator. We got bows, buttons and ribbons as a distraction from administrative incompetence instead, which is why NDHQ does not seem to be feeling the cuts it should while people in the field have to do more with less again and suffer the consequences (such as cutting reasonable access to alcohol at sea).
/RANT OFF 

*: Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against members or officers of the Air Force . However, it is my personal view that, unlike admirals and general officers of the Army, there is nothing in the senior career progression of Air Force generals (usually coming from the pilot classification) that prepares them for senior command or headquarter work. It is simply the nature of air forces that the pilots need not lead people in combat, other than themselves, in the large numbers that require you to inspire and and empower while earning the trust of your followers. For instance, in the AF, it is more for the pilot to trust that his ground crew has done everything so that he will come back alive, than for the pilot to inspire trust in his ground crew that he will bring them back alive. In the Army and Navy, its is the more classic model, where the crew and soldiers have to trust that their officers know what to do to bring them all back alive.


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## SeaKingTacco (28 Dec 2014)

OGBD,

Without necessarily defending any one specific person, your critique of pilots lacks specificity. It is about like saying that all MARS Officers are jerks and eat their own, because of the way they are trained (and I have a tonne of insight into how badly MARS Officers are often trained and mentored and the monsters that get created as a result). Pilots (aircrew in general, really) have varying degrees of leadership opportunities, depending on the fleet in which they are employed. Much like most other occupations.

There are poor leaders, from every element, that make it to the top (or nearly so). My observation on what the common factor is? Certain people seem to get identified as golden children early on. They are then pushed through the system, being coddled and protected all the way, because to do otherwise (after a certain point) would be to admit an error in judgement. These ambitious people often rise far above where they should in the CF without being fully tested, causing incalculable damage through either incompetence or because they lack scruples and will put their own needs first before that of the CF. I would also like to think that they are in the minority. Most leaders in the CF are good ones. If you don't believe me, visit any other organization or corporation of similar size and see the problems they deal with.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (28 Dec 2014)

That is why I was not name specific, SKT. And I agree with you on every element having poor leaders.

My point is more of an institutional one: The methods of operation of the Air Force makes it difficult for the officers to develop the higher levels of leadership required to run large organizations, in my opinion. Just to use the Infantry as a n example: the young officer is put in charge of a platoon, which he must lead and inspire, thus solidifying his newly acquired leadership skills from Infantry school. He then moves on to greater leadership positions of running a Company, having to inspire and lead a larger group of people, then battalion, then a Brigade, etc. Each step of the way, he is the leader who must be trusted by all under his command and inspire them to perform their duty while retaining their trust that he is looking out for their welfare. The Naval model is about the same though not quite as extreme as the army model since there is a more direct (in the sense of lack of physical distance) line of supervision present on a ship than in the army so the army leader must instill greater inspiration in its members that could be out of direct reach when performing their duties.

In the Air force, the pilot officer may want to go down and meet the ground crew, but he does not have to lead them, inspire them or gain their trust to be able to do his flying. So he does not have to grow his leadership skills early on in his career. He does not even have to be overseen by someone who "leads" him. The pilot's squadron leader need not inspire his pilots to fight, but rather in a reversal, it is for the young pilot to prove himself trustworthy to the squadron leader. As they move up the chain, the air force officers then find themselves running larger and more and more complex technical staffs, which develops leadership of the civilian CEO type, but not necessarily of the military "field" type, in my view.

Now, this does not means that the Air Force does not develop great military leaders for senior HQ's, but that on average, the other two elements produce a lot more simply because of the nature of their organization.

I must say, however, that in my 26+ years in active service, I have seen many Generals and Admirals that I did not know from atom step on the dais and have such charisma, leadership and communication skills that after a few sentences, I completely trusted them and would have gone anywhere with them to fight. I have never had that experience with an Air Force general. 

Again here, I want to make sure I am not misunderstood: I have nothing against the Air Force, their members or officers, and this is my personal view, and this view is that this is purely institutional and results from the different nature of each of the elements (And yes, SKT, I too have seen some pretty bad apple MARS officers allowed to climb up the ladder when they shouldn't have).


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## Petard (28 Dec 2014)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> The latest on this:  the correct link to the award for the RCAF advisory position says the winning bidder was Landsdowne Technologies, whose team does NOT include Richard Rohmer.  It is, indeed, apples vs. oranges.



Nevertheless it is going to make some people wonder why the RCAF is picking all this fruit that is well past its best before date in the first place


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## Eagle_Eye_View (28 Dec 2014)

Oldgateboatdriver,

From your previous post, I think this might be one of the reasons why the RCAF is looking at developing a program where the Lts are "mentored" by WOs and Jr Capts "mentored" by MWOs. Kinda what the Army does; it was mentioned a week ago by the RCAF CWO during a town hall.


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## Baz (28 Dec 2014)

That won't solve anything either... exactly where are the MWOs and WOs getting either leadership (vice management) or staff skills in the Air Force.

This isn't just a Canadian pronlem, Air Forces writ large, in my OutCan experience, have it, amongst other problems.   However, the lack of proper Naval Aviation and Army Aviation in Canada exasperates it.


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## Good2Golf (28 Dec 2014)

Which of the RCAF's air forces are we talking about?


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## Infanteer (28 Dec 2014)

Like he said, because there are five (and two navies, and three armies)....


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## Baz (28 Dec 2014)

I don't know its even that simple... for instance all the useful bits tying MH and MP together are gone.  Add to that we are now ISR, whatever way the RCAF is defining that (which isn't clear either).

Some of us never thought we'd miss MAG, but the useful bits are gone and only the bloat remains.  Same with the Maritime Warfare Authority.

But hey, luckly we're all RCAF... that should solve it all, especially as we get more mentors to tell us how it used to be


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## dimsum (28 Dec 2014)

Baz said:
			
		

> This isn't just a Canadian pronlem, Air Forces writ large, in my OutCan experience, have it, amongst other problems.   However, the lack of proper Naval Aviation and Army Aviation in Canada exasperates it.



I was with you up until the underlined part.  I'm not sure how having Naval Aviation and Army Aviation would change aircrew leadership training/experience?  

From seeing how they work in my current posting, RAN/ARA aviation branches are pretty "independent" as well and seem to attract the same complaints as OGBD stated re: Pilot/aircrew leadership.


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## Baz (28 Dec 2014)

There is a basic issue with giving aircrew leadership traing in any of the aviation branches of seen.

However, in my experience, Naval and Army Aviators, being immersed in their "host" environments, tend to get more rounded, including more leadership opportunities at the junior level.

A robust example is the USMC, where everyone is a "rifleman first."


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## OldSolduer (29 Dec 2014)

Baz said:
			
		

> That won't solve anything either... exactly where are the MWOs and WOs getting either leadership (vice management) or staff skills in the Air Force.
> 
> This isn't just a Canadian pronlem, Air Forces writ large, in my OutCan experience, have it, amongst other problems.   However, the lack of proper Naval Aviation and Army Aviation in Canada exasperates it.



My observation as a hard (well as hard as Christmas candy)Army CWO is that the WOs of the RCAF are technicians....that is to say their trades are highly technical and less emphasis is placed on leadership.

I know some Army trades are quite technical as well, but we, at least in the infantry, tend to pay loads of attention to leadership, starting very early in a soldier's career.


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## daftandbarmy (29 Dec 2014)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Which of the RCAF's air forces are we talking about?



The only one that gets you promoted to General, of course  ;D


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## Brad Sallows (29 Dec 2014)

First, to paraphrase slightly:

"The position of Honorary Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff was created to recognize [some guy]'s contributions to the Canadian Armed Forces, and the unique advice and guidance that he provides to the Chief of the Defence Staff, drawing from his wealth of experience in service to Canada."

Now: WTF?  Really?


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## Ostrozac (29 Dec 2014)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> The only one that gets you promoted to General, of course  ;D



To be fair, while the higher echelons of the RCAF are dominated by pilots -- it's not necessarily a fighter pilots-only club.

As a totally unscientific sample, by my count of the last 5 Chiefs of Air Staff (AKA Officer Commanding RCAF/Officer Commanding Air Command) -- 2 were fighter pilots (Blondin, Deschamps), 1 was Sea King (Watt), 1 was transport (Lucas), and 1 was Tac Hel (Pennie).


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## Spencer100 (3 Feb 2015)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/02/meet-the-most-interesting-canadian-from-fighting-nazis-to-chaperoning-the-queen-hes-done-it-all/

Richard Rohmer article.  

All I can say is that he has been a very good friend to my family. And a life well lived.


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## Loachman (3 Feb 2015)

I have nothing against him as a person, but he hardly qualifies for such a title.

His "uniform" in the photo has much in common with those of the Walt persuasion.

His books failed to impress me when they were published in the seventies.


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## The Bread Guy (28 Jun 2015)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> This from the Info-machine:
> 
> 
> > General Tom Lawson, Canada’s Chief of the Defence, is proud to name Major-General (Retired) Richard Rohmer, OC, CMM, DFC, O.Ont., KStJ, CD, OL, QC, BA, LLB, JD, LLD, Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneur, as the Honorary Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff.
> ...


The latest ....


> Recognizing his unparalleled record of service to the country, *General Tom Lawson, Chief of the Defence Staff, is pleased to announce that the Honorary Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff, Major-General (Retired) Richard Rohmer, OC, CMM, DFC, O.Ont., KStJ, CD, OL, QC, BA, LLB, JD, LLD, Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneur, has been granted the honorary rank of Lieutenant-General.*
> 
> The position of Honorary Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff was created to recognize Honorary Lieutenant-General (Hon LGen) Rohmer’s contributions to the Canadian Armed Forces, and the unique advice and guidance that he provides to the Chief of the Defence Staff, drawing from his wealth of experience in service to Canada ....


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## medicineman (28 Jun 2015)

Wow, an honorary promotion...

On a pedantic sidebar, I find it annoying that people add their Order(s) of St John onto their official post nominal list when you're not actually allowed to use them outside of correspondence within The Order.  My SBStJ comes up on my CV only in brackets and not on any of my official calling cards, letterhead, etc.  Even when I was active as a member and officer in St John Ambulance, I could still only use those post nominals on official correspondence within Brigade and the Association...never outside.  It's supposed to be an order of humble chivalry, though I've noticed many have tried making it into an order of LCF.

MM


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## daftandbarmy (28 Jun 2015)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Wow, an honorary promotion...
> 
> On a pedantic sidebar, I find it annoying that people add their Order(s) of St John onto their official post nominal list when you're not actually allowed to use them outside of correspondence within The Order.  My SBStJ comes up on my CV only in brackets and not on any of my official calling cards, letterhead, etc.  Even when I was active as a member and officer in St John Ambulance, I could still only use those post nominals on official correspondence within Brigade and the Association...never outside.  It's supposed to be an order of humble chivalry, though I've noticed many have tried making it into an order of LCF.
> 
> MM



Thanks for that tid bit. I know at least two people who revel in the letters at every opportunity as if they were personally present at the battle in Malta.

One of them is probably old enough.  :


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## medicineman (8 Jul 2015)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Thanks for that tid bit. I know at least two people who revel in the letters at every opportunity as if they were personally present at the battle in Malta.
> 
> One of them is probably old enough.  :



When I want to set my Mother off (BA, MA, PhD), I note that all my official post nominals (SBStJ, CD, CCPA) have more letters than the 2 in front of and the 7 after her name...and I use the last one pretty much all the time as it's my professional designation.  If I really want to get her going on a rant, I'll tell her that if I graduated from medical school, the Dr in front of my name would mean more than her's  ;D.  

MM


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## CougarKing (24 Jan 2016)

Photos courtesy of the RCAF official facebook page:














> Royal Canadian Air Force
> 
> Decorated Second World War pilot visits 430 Squadron
> 
> ...


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