# How hard is SQ?



## william (21 Oct 2004)

I'm just wondering how hard SQ training is?


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## foerestedwarrior (21 Oct 2004)

Reg or res? i did the 1 month res course, it was a blast. It was a huge change from BMQ, it went from alot of class stuff, to all weapons. It is only as hard as you make it, if you put effort into rememebring your drills, then its all good.


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## Baskin (21 Oct 2004)

get a good routine going, do everything in the same order.
It helps make sure you get everything done and it makes it alot easier.


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## william (21 Oct 2004)

Thanks for the info guys.


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## paracowboy (23 Oct 2004)

william said:
			
		

> I'm just wondering how hard SQ training is?


  I can't even begin to explain how wrong the attitude in that question is.


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## william (3 Nov 2004)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> I can't even begin to explain how wrong the attitude in that question is.


Well please tell me, I personally don't see whats wrong with my question. Other than its a bit vague


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## Gouki (3 Nov 2004)

Sounds to me like it may not be a matter of how "hard" it may be per se, but how "challenging" it may be.. Just a stab in the dark. I think I may know what he is hinting at.


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## Fusaki (3 Nov 2004)

> Well please tell me, I personally don't see whats wrong with my question. Other than its a bit vague



All you're doing is giving yourself reasons to quit before you've even started. Honestly, what does a question like that gain you? You should be asking "What can I do to prepare for my SQ?". Losers dwell on the negative, winners find the positive. Like Paracowboy said, its the wrong attitude.

Believe it or not, its a BIG freak'n deal.


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## Gouki (3 Nov 2004)

Hey, now that the opportunity is here, and Ghostwalk you seem to know your stuff here, I want to ask what I can do to prepare for SQ.

I got four months to prepare, before I go on basic (hopefully) so that will help with the PT on that course, but until then..

I'm doing 40 min of weight training each morning, one bodypart on each day (arms supersetted on Friday tho to allow Sunday rest)

And in the afternoon, I do running. I am.. not a great runner right now (13 min for 2.4km) quite shameful I know, but I am hoping that this four months will let me get up to superior level. 

That's what I am doing .. is there anything else I should do? How many km should I aim for to do well in SQ and (hopefully) my infantry QL3? Anything else would be appreciated! I don't want to be wasting my time, as this four months can make or break me.


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## Fusaki (4 Nov 2004)

> Ghostwalk you seem to know your stuff here,



Woah... before you start blowing smoke up my ass, I'll point that that I'm only a no-hook private who's way to outspoken for his own good. Just because I try to help, doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about. For all you know I'm a 40 year old transvestite who reads too much Tom Clancy, right? This is the internet, after all, so take everything with a grain of salt.

As for your question about physical fitness, I'd keep on doing what your doing and try not to stress over it. In my own opinion, anyone with the drive to go out and train hard on their own on a regular basis will pass infantry training. Living with a "go get 'em!!" attitude and a consistant effort at improving your physical condition is far more important then actually being in excellant shape. Again, its all about attitude. Those with a bad attitude will fail, and those with a good attitude will be brought up to standard by the end of the course regardless.


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## Gouki (4 Nov 2004)

They will be brought up to course standard?

So, assuming that you run say.. 6-7km (as my patricia friends have told me) in the QL3, and I could only run... say five, I won't be immediately dismissed as long as I keep my head up and attitude positive and keep plugging away at it?


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## paracowboy (4 Nov 2004)

Gouki said:
			
		

> I'm doing 40 min of weight training each morning, one bodypart on each day (arms supersetted on Friday tho to allow Sunday rest)
> 
> And in the afternoon, I do running. I am.. not a great runner right now (13 min for 2.4km) quite shameful I know, but I am hoping that this four months will let me get up to superior level.
> 
> That's what I am doing .. is there anything else I should do? How many km should I aim for to do well in SQ and (hopefully) my infantry QL3? Anything else would be appreciated! I don't want to be wasting my time, as this four months can make or break me.


 while I am an avocate of weight training, right now, it's not your most pressing concern. Never mind isolation exercises. You need a strong core. I recommend push-ups, pull-ups, and sit-ups. For two reasons: 1) they work the entire body, and 2) these are the movements you will be performing for the rest of your career. 
Push-ups: you want to be able to pump off a set of 50 at any time. With PERFECT form. Arms bent at 90 degrees on the downstroke, back and ass level. Arms fully locked out at the top. That's one. Anything less than perfect form don't count.
Sit-ups: you want to be able to pump off a set of 50 at any time. With PERFECT form. Arms bent, knees bent, shoulder blades touching the floor. On the Up-stroke, elbows touch the knees. Hands don't leave the SIDES of the head, hips don't leave the floor.
Pull-ups: grip bar with an overhand grasp and hang. Arms fully extended. Pull up until the clavicle is level with the bar. Pause. Lower to full extension. Go for 7.

Once these movements become easy, add some twists to them. Push-ups: change the spacing of your hands. Move them in until your fingers and thumbs form a diamond. Move them out to twice shoulder width. Move one up to level with your ear, and leave the other at your normal position, then alternate. When you can perform a set of 50 normal, then sets of 25 of each of the others, go back to weights. At this point, your aerobicizing. 
Sit-ups: once you can perform 50 properly, remove any foot support, and do them with nothing holding your feet down. Then incorporate crunches, bridges, and leg-raises.
Pull-ups: start doing sets of chins after you pull-ups. Do a set of pull-ups to failure, then immediately switch grips to underhand and do chins, then move the hands in, until the pinkie fingers are 6 inches apart. When you can do several sets of these, add weight.

Running: you need to build an aerobic base. A program that works for me is a 4 day one. Day one is all about time. I run for an hour and a half. I don't care about distance, only time. Day two is sprints. Find a known distance (football fields are excellent). Sprint for 50 meters, jog for 50. Do this for 40 minutes. Increase the distance you sprint and decrease the distance you jog, until you sprint for 100, jog for 50. Day three is hills. Day four is off.

I suggest these movements because they will work the entire body and they will give you the muscle memory you need for your chosen profession. You need to perform these movements every day when in the infantry, so train the body to do them, and do them RIGHT.

I won't give you any advice on ruckmarching because everybody needs to learn about that as part of their Basic training. Wouldn't want to cheat you out of the experience. 

If you boys find that these ideas don't challenge you, get back to me via PM, and I'll come up with something appropriately sadistic.


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## Gouki (4 Nov 2004)

Wow, what you do running wise sounds close to mine.. I didn't want to post what I do because it would take up space but now I'll say what it is specifically:

I already don't do isolation exercises don't worry, I do compound movements. I don't care about looking pretty, I care about my muscles being strong and working as a group. Hence, I don't do things like say... concentration curls for biceps and things like that. I try to stick to the basic barbells and dumbells and the tried, tested and true methods and the big movements than the smaller ones which tend to focus only on one muscle.

With running, I do a 2.4km run on Moday, Wednesday and Thursday, and try to beat my previous time more and more each time. Once I get a superior time rating, I plan on increasing the distance to 3km, and keep progressing that way. On Tuesday, I do 2 x 400m and 1x800 fast runs, I try to make the 400m in 2:11 minutes for example. I'm trying to get the muscles in my leg accustomed to running at a certain speed to make a certain time in my 5km run... which is exactly what you said - muscle memory. On Friday, I do a 25 min progression run which I won't bother to explain as it sounds like you already know what that may be.

I do want to incorporate two of your ideas however, the hill running and the sprint idea (the 50m/50m idea) I really like that.. a lot. I think I am going to change the friday progression run to just that in fact, However, the hill running I cannot do... I live in Shilo..there is only one man made hill here for many, many kilometres. What would you recommend here - the treadmill?

btw, every sunday I will do as many pushups as I can. With my weight training, I find that every sunday I am capable of a bit more, so far it's been steadily increasing (at 33 right now, was at 25 3 weeks ago). But, I am thinking of somehow working pushups into a daily basis, I just haven't found a suitable method yet (perhaps xx amount when I wake up in the morning?)


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## ArmyRick (6 Nov 2004)

The sooner you try it, the sooner you will find out ! 
"Do or Do not, their is no try"
Yoda
Master Jedi Instructor
867 years


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## william (8 Nov 2004)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> All you're doing is giving yourself reasons to quit before you've even started. Honestly, what does a question like that gain you? You should be asking "What can I do to prepare for my SQ?". Losers dwell on the negative, winners find the positive. Like Paracowboy said, its the wrong attitude.
> 
> Believe it or not, its a BIG freak'n deal.


Oh. Ok. I see and I understand what your saying. I do intend to pass SQ. I just wanted to know what kind of things you do and and how you handle those situations. Actually I'm being a bit vague there also. Do you do weapons training and in the field stuff like digging trenches and how to conceal yourself. Do you work as a team with your fellow soldiers? Do you play war games war games?  I have done research and all the sites I went to didn't cover this stuff.


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## Gouki (8 Nov 2004)

Yeah, I wouldn't mind knowing either. I read the course outline but naturally to someone like me who hasn't experienced anything close to infantry can't make heads or tails of it.. Then again, perhaps not knowing is part of the fun and experience..


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## Sh0rtbUs (8 Nov 2004)

ArmyRick said:
			
		

> The sooner you try it, the sooner you will find out !
> "Do or Do not, their is no try"
> Yoda
> Master Jedi Instructor
> 867 years



*cough* *cough* nerd *cough* *cough 

nah, just ribbin ya   ;D


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## Fusaki (8 Nov 2004)

The first part of the SQ is mostly classes, PT and inspections. You'll do a number of tests on the different weapons and fieldcraft, as well as a Battle Fitness Test, and a Company Commander's inspection. The weapons you learn will be fired live as well. Your field portion is divided into 2 main exercises, plus a short "intro to the field" type ex. The 2 main ones are your offensive exercise, where you learn section attacks and section level patrolling and your defensive exercise where you dig trenches, and defend them. Expect to be doing "sleep deprivation training" throughout those 2 weeks. A high level of teamwork will be expected throughout. In my opinion, the SQ is the penance you pay before you do your BIQ and have some real fun.

Check out the infantry FAQ on this forum for more information.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html


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## ArmyRick (8 Nov 2004)

SQ is hard work but loads of fun. Its challenging but it does build character. Man up and try it out.......   I kind of wonder why the individuals who show up their cry, whine and then want out? VR and OT are common phrases in Meaford these days. Too bad. The bloody course is like 6-7 weeks at most.
The old QL3 Infantry was 16 weeks... That was usually immediately after 10 weeks at Wally world (Cornwallis, another place I have fond memories of..


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## Fusaki (8 Nov 2004)

> The bloody course is like 6-7 weeks at most.
> The old QL3 Infantry was 16 weeks... That was usually immediately after 10 weeks at Wally world



For the record, a 6 week SQ does not qualify anyone to be an infanteer. There is a 10 week BIQ that follows right after. When most guys talk about their "battleschool" (the term is used loosly these days, considering the actual RCR Battleschool was disbanded in 1996), they refer to the  combined 16 weeks of SQ and BIQ.

Sorry for that bit of hijacking, I just wanted to clarify the situation.


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## ArmyRick (9 Nov 2004)

Ghostwalk, just for the record. I did do the 26 weeks straight of Cornwallis + PPCLI Battleschool prior to being posted to the patricias...
The old QL3 was not simply the SQ/BIQ stacked.. It was more in depth than those two course together. You spent alot more time doing the basics and focus on field training. The exercises later on in the course went from Monday morning until friday afternoon.
I am fully aware of what SQ qualifies people to do. It gives them basic soldiering skills ("an introduction to infantry skills at the section level").


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## Fusaki (9 Nov 2004)

Well, I hope I didn't come off sounding like I doubted your experience. 

I just wanted to make clear that the 6 week SQ was never meant to replace the entire QL3. Whether or not the SQ and BIQ combined can produce the same quality soldier as the Battleschool is a different discussion altogether - a discussion that I know would be way over my head.

Cheers.


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## Gouki (9 Nov 2004)

So, what's up with these SQ dates. The CFRC says it's a 10 week course, yet I keep seeing it as 6 week here. I thought the 6 week may be a Reserve version course, but some of my friends in the Pats said they too had a 6 week.. So, I'm confused now... Is it 6 or 10 weeks for the *Reg force*? Or does it just depend upon other things like how busy the schedule may be, number of platoons going through, funding, etc etc that kinda stuff?


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## ArmyRick (9 Nov 2004)

If you spend a couple of weeks in holding prior to course start date then yes it ends up sort of like 10 weeks. The SQ is still evolving.
We took out Comms now their back in, etc, etc..
When you start and you actually do the course then you will find out.  Ghostwalk, I know you weren't doubting my expirience, cheers on that..
Yes you are right the current SQ does'nt even come close to the SQ and BIQ or QL3 Infantry.
It does give the other trades alot more field time than what they had before..


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## armyrules (11 Nov 2004)

Thats sounds like a great plan Gouki I'll follow the same one and see what happens


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## K-DoG (15 Nov 2004)

I didn't like SQ much, janitor by night weapons handler by day... avg 4 hour of sleep a night because we had to clean so damn much. Go to sleep at 1200 wake up at 0400 for pt. Fitness wise I thought it was a joke, way below what we did on our BMQ. BIQ on the other hand was grate, we were treated like soldiers, learned shit loads of new things and it was challenging. PT was challenging on BIQ too, we ran 7km every morning or did circuit training, lots of push ups and all that good stuff. Also spent lots of time in the field... Best time I've had in the army. Guess it all depends on your staff though, on our BIQ course we learned a tone of extra stuff, we were shown what plants you can eat in the field and all shorts of survival skills. My buddies that went on the course after us didn't learn or do half the things we did


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## armyrules (15 Nov 2004)

Why didn't your buddies learn all that cool stuff? Did the commander change or did they just change the program?


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## K-DoG (16 Nov 2004)

As I said it all depends on the staff, they did the exact same course but with different staff.


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## armyrules (1 Dec 2004)

Oh do they change staff ever year?


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## Gouki (1 Dec 2004)

That's unfortunate.. I would be extremely disappointed if my course were not taught things like what sort of plants are edible in the field and the like. Not only is it fun to learn/know but it should be mandatory to teach as basic survival knowledge.


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## JBP (26 Dec 2004)

> That's unfortunate.. I would be extremely disappointed if my course were not taught things like what sort of plants are edible in the field and the like. Not only is it fun to learn/know but it should be mandatory to teach as basic survival knowledge.



Well, seeing as when you go "in the field" you'll have either enough food+water for 1-3 days, max being 3 (A LOT of kit I imagine), we're probably not taught any real "survival" training other than hygene in a tent... Don't quote me though, I am certainly no expert and haven't done ANY courses yet! I agree with you it that basic survival skills should be mandatory and was dissapointed when my buddy who is an artillery guy, said they weren't taught any really. He said obviously his courses might have differed a bit because he's not Infantry but still...



> As I said it all depends on the staff, they did the exact same course but with different staff.



This seems to be what makes or breaks the level of the course from what I gather. I'm sure when we're all on our first few courses we won't worry too much about what ELSE we'll be learning anyway. Probably going to be DAMN plenty!!!

PS>
Anyone know if there is any "Survival" type courses you can take? I know there's the different terrain courses, Mountain, Desert, Arctic, etc etc etc. And some of them have been cut a couple years ago, but any general survival courses we get in the Infantry?

Joe  :warstory:


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## Tpr.Orange (26 Dec 2004)

there are actually survival based courses in the military you just have to ask to get on one of the courses. And of course not just anyone is going to be allowed to get on that training, Its trade specific i believe. I believe pilots and navigators, are mandatory students of the course but i could be wrong. There is an episode of TDV on about the course.


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## aesop081 (26 Dec 2004)

CFN. Orange said:
			
		

> there are actually survival based courses in the military you just have to ask to get on one of the courses. And of course not just anyone is going to be allowed to get on that training, Its trade specific i believe. I believe pilots and navigators, are mandatory students of the course but i could be wrong. There is an episode of TDV on about the course.



TDV was on the advanced SERE (survival, evasion, resistance and escape) course.   Before you get there you have to do the...you guessed it...basic SERE.   The basic course is manditory for all aircrews (Pilot, Navigator, Flight engineer, Airborne electronic sensor operator, AC Op ( only those employed on AWACS), etc...).   There are not many serials run each year and its usualy aircrew only ( with very occasional exceptions).


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## Tpr.Orange (26 Dec 2004)

thanks for clearing that up


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## JBP (27 Dec 2004)

> There are not many serials run each year and its usualy aircrew only ( with very occasional exceptions).



Well that sucks...  

O-well, maybe after 3-5 yrs in, Corporal and I do my shit right I can get a chance at it. But if REG force Infantry doesn't usually even get to have a shot at it I highly doubt they'd consider Reserve Infantry. Guess I'll have to hurry up and wait! 

I remember reading an article that JTF2 guys in Afganistan lived up in the mountains apparently without support or supplies for weeks on end. THEY must have had some survival training I imagine... For once, I am jealous of those guys finally.  :-\


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## jmackenzie_15 (28 Dec 2004)

JTF is the pride and joy of our armed forces.If any kind of military objective that is achievable by human beings, they can do it.


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## Meridian (6 Jan 2005)

jmackenzie_15 said:
			
		

> JTF is the pride and joy of our armed forces.If any kind of military objective that is achievable by human beings, they can do it.



Well I wouldn't quite put it that way... They are a part of the overall military force just like every other part...  You couldn't just have a military of specops, imo... and claim to be able to "meet any kind of military objective"....

On the other hand, they are quite capable troops, and definitely train on a lot of things many of us will never even know about.


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## Fraz (6 Jan 2005)

Your first few weeks of the SQ is weapons trg, perswpns handling tests,  LMG and GPMG and grenades, interspersed with the ranges and PWT 2 on the SQ i believe. To answer your other questions, you're bloody right on the field ex you will dig trenches, NAV by day and night and with PLGR's, section attacks and basic def and off ops and patrolling, if you're looking for war games i'm sorry but you'll be somewhat disappointed to learn that it's only as much a 'game' as your course staff and OPFOR make it. Keep your #$% together and work as a team with your buddies, it is as hard as you make it, and whether you're doing your course in Wainwright or Meaford, have fun it's the winter. My friend Ghostwalk is right keep positive and enjoy your course... ahahahha (forgive the evil laugh)


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## 2 Cdo (8 Jan 2005)

Fraz I couldn't agree more. As someone who has taught on a couple of SQ courses so far with another in 2 weeks, the best way to prepare is to maintain a positive attitude! Your instructors will teach you what you need to know and it will then be up to you to execute the drills.
If you go into the course with a pissy, whiny attitude we as instructors will pick that up in a heartbeat and exploit it to our full advantage! >
The last one I taught I had a female candidate who had no knowledge of weapons or the field when we started, and by the end of the course if we still honored top candidates she would have been it. She did this by maintaining a positive attitude, listening, and doing what she was told better than others on the course who had reserve infantry time! :threat:
Myself being infantry was obviously less than thrilled with the knowledge level of my reserve infantry troops! :rage:


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## jmackenzie_15 (8 Jan 2005)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Fraz I couldn't agree more. As someone who has taught on a couple of SQ courses so far with another in 2 weeks, the best way to prepare is to maintain a positive attitude! Your instructors will teach you what you need to know and it will then be up to you to execute the drills.
> If you go into the course with a pissy, whiny attitude we as instructors will pick that up in a heartbeat and exploit it to our full advantage! >
> The last one I taught I had a female candidate who had no knowledge of weapons or the field when we started, and by the end of the course if we still honored top candidates she would have been it. She did this by maintaining a positive attitude, listening, and doing what she was told better than others on the course who had reserve infantry time! :threat:
> Myself being infantry was obviously less than thrilled with the knowledge level of my reserve infantry troops! :rage:



To the defence of reserve infantrymen, Id like to point out something if I may.I have no idea how it is in other reserve infantry units other than my own, but in mine,95% of the really good troops that attempt to go regforce, and I mean like, the best ones we have, get a screw job and never end up going anywhere for at least a year or two, if at all.And on the other hand, the really useless, clueless and otherwise would be better as a Fig11 soldiers, are always gone off to regs in a matter of months. An example of this, one guy we had went to the navy to be a cook, and he was absolutely... well, you know what I mean.Would wear other people's combat jackets and not know it etc.Once he took his DEUs into the armories in a suitcase.All of it, in a suitcase.And another guy we had, probobly one of the best soldiers ive ever met and had the good fortune of having being taught by, attempted to go regforce infantry for /two years/, before he eventually got angry enough that he just quit and joined the RCMP.Another good soldier we have is trying to get into the air force, for over a year now, while another guy who just finished his BIQ this past summer, just went regforce armored.

But like I said, i dunno how other units operate, but around here it seems as though the brass wont let go of the good troops we have, but dont hesitate in giving up some confused backwards people.I can sort of understand really, if the unit had trained someone and spent all of their money on him just to have him (or her) go regforce and leave them, well I would feel as if it was all kinda defeating the purpose.Theres alot of politics that go on around the offices in the CF it seems.

Just my two cents.


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## 2 Cdo (8 Jan 2005)

That doesn't surprise me at all. To be honest if I was a CO of a unit I would probably do my best to keep the cream and get rid of the rest! Some would say that's what lead to the downfall of the Airborne Regiment, where the battalions would send there fuckups on a jump course and hope that they pass, therefore finding themselves on posting to Pet. Now they are someone else's problem. :threat:
I don't know how true that is but by seeing some of the troops that ended up there in the last few years of the Regiment it seems plausible.


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## slowmode (24 Mar 2008)

Sq is only as hard as you make it. If you want it to be hard it will, but if you put in your mind youll get past what ever hits you..than youll be fine


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## fire_guy686 (24 Mar 2008)

Damn, you dug a ways back to find this one.


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## NL_engineer (24 Mar 2008)

slowmode said:
			
		

> Sq is only as hard as you make it. If you want it to be hard it will, but if you put in your mind youll get past what ever hits you..than youll be fine



The last post before yours was over 3 years ago

But you are correct in what you said


BTW you are not a sapper until you have your cap badge, and from looking at your profile, that will be after your sect mbr pt 1.


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## JBP (25 Mar 2008)

My original post to this thread was quite some time ago when I was still in the reserves, now I'm reg force Sigs, SQ hasn't changed much except they cut it down considerably, apparently they simply added a lot of the training material to the end of BMQ. SQ now is about 3 weeks from what I've seen, at least that's the length of the one they sent a bunch of us Sigs on back in Shilo, MB.

Same as always, be strong, mentally just as much as physically. It's no different then any other military course you've done so far! Definitely won't be the hardest one either...


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