# RCAF Pilots survival vest



## hajjmich

I am just curious and have been wondering this for a while:

-Do Aircraft Crews have survival vests?
-If yes, What does it include
-Does it included a firearm/sidearm
-if yes, can you use your own sidearm
-Which aircraft does this system apply to?

Thanks in advance for the answers.

Michel


----------



## bradley247

hajjmich said:
			
		

> -Do Aircraft Crews have survival vests?



Some do, yes.



			
				hajjmich said:
			
		

> -If yes, What does it include



Depends on the aircraft/mission. Usually basic survival gear, first aid stuff, signaling gear, survival jujubes. Sometimes a life vest is attached or other maritime survival things. Not exactly an exhaustive list, but not going to pull mine apart right now.



			
				hajjmich said:
			
		

> -Does it included a firearm/sidearm



Some crews carry firearms, depending on the mission, but it is not part of the survival vest.



			
				hajjmich said:
			
		

> -if yes, can you use your own sidearm



No



			
				hajjmich said:
			
		

> -Which aircraft does this system apply to?



Generally anything tactical.


----------



## Jarnhamar

What kind of firearms do the crews carry?


----------



## SeaKingTacco

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> What kind of firearms do the crews carry?



I can only speak for MH crews- Sig Sauer pistols.


----------



## bradley247

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> What kind of firearms do the crews carry?



We carry the Browning hi power in the multi world, only on missions where it is required though.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Would you ever bring along something like a .22 carbine for survival like an AR7?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-7
Or a C8 if you're over hostile territory?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

There are two basic type of LPSV (Life Preserver Survival Vest) used by, not only pilots, but all aircrew and PAX.  IIRC, one is used for ejection seat and one for non-ejection.  Can't remember the exact names.

Not only is it the crew individual survival vest, it is also their PFD for ditching.


----------



## SupersonicMax

We have a Sig with 2 mags (8 rounds per) when flying over hostile territory.  The content of the vest can be customized to some degree but not much, since space is somewhat limited and ALSE techs don't like it when we remove or add things...  The bulk of our survival equipment is in our seat pack, which we can't customize.


----------



## Zoomie

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Would you ever bring along something like a .22 carbine for survival like an AR7?



Twin Otter crews carry COTS rifles/shotguns.  SAR crews carry milspec hunting rifles that can be broken down and strapped to their bodies.

I carry a pocket-knife and a mean scowl.


----------



## Sf2

Tac Avn uses the Browning or Sig Sauer.

C8's were carried overseas.


----------



## krustyrl

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> There are two basic type of LPSV (Life Preserver Survival Vest) used by, not only pilots, but all aircrew and PAX.  IIRC, one is used for ejection seat and one for non-ejection.  Can't remember the exact names.
> 
> Not only is it the crew individual survival vest, it is also their PFD for ditching.



LPSV - Life Preserver Survival Vest

UCLP - Universal Carrier Life Preserver  

UCLP Is basically a bib that has an inflatable bladder speed-laced to the collar and several small pockets that carry mandatory items for CF life preservers.  (Strobe light , whistle and sea-dye marker or signal streamer)


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I guess what we call LPSV is really a UCLP then?  This is the same one used at the Sea Surv School @ Quadra.


----------



## krustyrl

Not really EITS.  The survival vest is a full vest and its contents are dictated by either mission or airframe. IE: fighter SV's are not equipped the same as transport. There will be some similarities in survival contents. Like the SV's used for say Op Mobile had contents as per 1CAD HQ direction. There were a few items not normally used in the LRPatrol airframe. The one in the pic on far right side is def a UCLP and it looks like the others are also.

LPSV is the full surround mesh vest whereas the UCLP is a mesh front and straps at the back with 3 pockets for the mandatory items for CF Life Preservers. 


Hope this one is more informative.

Bear in mind, there is a whole new system that was being looked at for service before I pulled the pin, I am fairly certain it's not in service as of yet.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

I'm really the only one to make this joke so far?



These are standard issue as well:


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Roger that...I guess what I meant was, we just usually refer to it as "LPSV" regardless of which model, although we are usually kitted out with the UCLP.  I'm not sure I ever heard the UCLP called that before.

When I did BSERE, we used the SV minus the LP (just the full mesh vest) and on Sea Survival we used the UCLP complete.  Both were referred to as LPSV or "your vest".

Cheers


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I'm really the only one to make this joke so far?
> 
> 
> 
> These are standard issue as well:



 8)


----------



## dimsum

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> I'm really the only one to make this joke so far?
> 
> 
> 
> These are standard issue as well:




Once again, people bring it up like it's a _bad_ thing.


----------



## krustyrl

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> 8)



That's awesome.!!  Love it.!!!     :rofl:


----------



## Baz

krustyrl said:
			
		

> Bear in mind, there is a whole new system that was being looked at for service before I pulled the pin, I am fairly certain it's not in service as of yet.



Since everything in the Cyclone is different, so is the survival gear.  It is a derivative of the air warrior system.  What it has and doesn't I don't know, it is all black though. I think its earlier generation of this:
https://peosoldier.army.mil/portfolio/index.asp?id=6f5ad3a8&pagenumber=166#159


----------



## SeaKingTacco

I saw that stuff on some USAF helo crews recently.  Very nice and well thought out.  Much better than our current rather Ad hoc approach to ALSE.


----------



## h3tacco

Baz said:
			
		

> Since everything in the Cyclone is different, so is the survival gear.  It is a derivative of the air warrior system.  What it has and doesn't I don't know, it is all black though. I think its earlier generation of this:
> https://peosoldier.army.mil/portfolio/index.asp?id=6f5ad3a8&pagenumber=166#159



The the first batch are all black. The rest will be sage green. 

The contents of Sea King LPSV and SLBP (Slim Line Back Pack) are pretty much the same except on the Cyclone gear more stuff is carried in the LPSV vice the Back Pack. The new back pack is thinner but stiffer and is probably less comfortable than the Sea King SLBP when sitting. Improvements will be the an integrated holster, instead of the makeshift Sea King LPSV holster, and for the back-enders the integrated Crewman Restraint Harness (CRH) with a quick release. No more Monkey Tails.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

h3tacco said:
			
		

> for the back-enders the integrated Crewman Restraint Harness (CRH) with a quick release. No more Monkey Tails.



Prototype picture below.   ;D


----------



## h3tacco

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Prototype picture below.   ;D



 :nod:


----------



## hajjmich

Thank you so much for all the answers, I appreciate it.


----------



## hajjmich

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> We have a Sig with 2 mags (8 rounds per) when flying over hostile territory.



Why only 8 rounds in the magazines? (I'm assuming its 9mm)


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I'd guess it has something to do with the springs in the magazine being compressed too tight over time reduces their ability to feed rounds out the magazine when the SHTF.  To counter that, sometimes mag's are under-loaded.


----------



## Ostrozac

Or it could be because the magazine capacity of a Sig 225 is 8 rounds.

I know that we are running some small arms microfleets -- Sig 226 is also floating around the system. As is the classic Browning. Is the 225 the standard for fighter aircrew?


----------



## George Wallace

hajjmich said:
			
		

> Why only 8 rounds in the magazines? (I'm assuming its 9mm)





			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I'd guess it has something to do with the springs in the magazine being compressed too tight over time reduces their ability to feed rounds out the magazine when the SHTF.  To counter that, sometimes mag's are under-loaded.





			
				Ostrozac said:
			
		

> Or it could be because the magazine capacity of a Sig 225 is 8 rounds.
> 
> I know that we are running some small arms microfleets -- Sig 226 is also floating around the system. As is the classic Browning. Is the 225 the standard for fighter aircrew?




 >

....or Pilots can't count past eight.    :dunno:


----------



## SupersonicMax

Mag capacity of the 225 is 8.  That's why. I don't know why we have te 225 vs 226 (is it even in thr system?), but in all honesty, 8 or 16 per mag isn't going to help you much against a polar bear or an infantry section...


----------



## MJP

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I'd guess it has something to do with the springs in the magazine being compressed too tight over time reduces their ability to feed rounds out the magazine when the SHTF.  To counter that, sometimes mag's are under-loaded.



Which is pure bunk, springs may loose their elasticity but it isn't from being loaded for the time periods we load them for/  The 225 narrower than the 226 and the rounds go in the mag single stack only leaving room for 8 (although there are larger mags they will extend out).  Smaller dainty hands have a better time with the 225 for this reason.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

MJP said:
			
		

> Which is pure bunk, springs may loose their elasticity but it isn't from being loaded for the time periods we load them for/  The 225 narrower than the 226 and the rounds go in the mag single stack only leaving room for 8 (although there are larger mags they will extend out).  Smaller dainty hands have a better time with the 225 for this reason.


Yup, a spring can stay compressed forever and not lose its tension. What ruins them is people stretching them thinking they're making them stronger.


----------



## Jarnhamar

I'd love to get my hands on one of the P226 20 round magazines if they were legal.

UFI; the P225's, if those are the same pistols that MPs use, need a specific type of 9mm ammo because the regular issued 9MM ball won't cycle the action properly apparently.



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> Yup, a spring can stay compressed forever and not lose its tension. What ruins them is people stretching them thinking they're making them stronger.


So I can leave my Sig mags loaded and it won't ruin them?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> So I can leave my Sig mags loaded and it won't ruin them?



Yup.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Meh, I don't care either way but, I'll have to correct the Wpn's Tech's and RTF folks when they say the springs compress after time.  I've personally never tested the theory.

 ;D


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Meh, I don't care either way but, I'll have to correct the Wpn's Tech's and RTF folks when they say the springs compress after time.  I've personally never tested the theory.
> 
> ;D



Springs are designed for a certain capacity. When they are at that limit, they will remain at it. It's when a spring is pushed or pulled out of its elastic range that it enters the plastic stage, then it will take a set. A permanent set in a compression spring is a condition where the spring is deflected (compressed or stretched) and does not return to its original free length. During deformation in the elastic stage (normal) no set takes place. What does take place though, is that through repeated load\ unload cycles, the metal will fatigue and lose strength making the spring weak.

More often, the main fault with mags is the lips, not the springs. Though most can't look at the lips and discern a fault, so they go after the spring.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Rgr.  Tks.

I'm going to try to remember that one for my next 9mm trg @ WRTF.   ;D


----------



## Zoomie

No point not having your mags loaded.  My mags are loaded and locked away in the ammo cans.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Zoomie said:
			
		

> No point not having your mags loaded.  My mags are loaded and locked away in the ammo cans.



Mine are loaded and sitting next to their pistols in the safe


----------



## Zoomie

recceguy said:
			
		

> Mine are loaded and sitting next to their pistols in the safe


Nod...  As are mine.  I've had to be a bit more responsible and put all mags and pistols back in the safe.  Come tornado season, I bring the 9mm out and lock it up in the storm shelter.


----------



## bison33

For eye in the sky and h3tacco....a trial of a crh in a Griffon.....no monkey tail required. And there is a story behind this...


----------



## hajjmich

Honestly, I wish it was allowed to carry your own, i would go with like a Glock 20 or a FN FNP 45 tactical

Again, thank you so much for the answers


----------



## PuckChaser

hajjmich said:
			
		

> Honestly, I wish it was allowed to carry your own, i would go with like a Glock 20 or a FN FNP 45 tactical



Because they're cool in Call of Duty? Have you even fired a Sig P225, Glock 20 or FN FNP 45 Tactical to be able to made an educated guess as to what would be more effective?


----------



## George Wallace

hajjmich said:
			
		

> Honestly, I wish it was allowed to carry your own, i would go with like a Glock 20 or a FN FNP 45 tactical



We are not mercenaries, nor are we beggars, gypsies or thieves.


----------



## hajjmich

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Because they're cool in Call of Duty? Have you even fired a Sig P225, Glock 20 or FN FNP 45 Tactical to be able to made an educated guess as to what would be more effective?



honestly no, and btw, I hate call of duty, it is a disgrace. I'm just saying based on the capabilities of the ammunition



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> We are not mercenaries, nor are we beggars, gypsies or thieves.



If you life depended on it, you would want it


Final picture: Yes I am not qualified to say my opinion on this, even though it is my right, i do not want to cause problems, and I do not want to get insulted by people here. I am saying this based on what I know, yes, the sig p225 is good enough, but it would not be my first choice in a situation like this

EDIT: I know that because I am a teenager, i may seem stupid and i understand why you may think my only knowledge in firearms is from video games, but that is not true, I am an outcast, I like politics, aviation, and making paracord bracelets.  I also enjoy learning about firearms. Don't assume all teens are stupid. I treat everyone on this forum with respect, i expect the same.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Trunk Monkey said:
			
		

> For eye in the sky and h3tacco....a trial of a crh in a Griffon.....no monkey tail required. And there is a story behind this...



Magical!!!   ;D


----------



## Jarnhamar

George Wallace said:
			
		

> We are not mercenaries, nor are we beggars, gypsies or thieves.



Mercenaries would have better weapons, more expensive body armor and not forced to use kit made by the lowest bidder  


Hajjmich, major problems with carrying your own is that the system wouldn't have spare parts to fix yours if something happened, spare magazines if you lost yours and quite possible weapons techs who know how to fix your specific pistol.


----------



## hajjmich

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Hajjmich, major problems with carrying your own is that the system wouldn't have spare parts to fix yours if something happened, spare magazines if you lost yours and quite possible weapons techs who know how to fix your specific pistol.



Thank you, it makes sense to me. I appreciate your input.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Let's stay on track here folks and away from the flights of fantasy and dreams.

--Staff--


----------



## AirDet

MJP said:
			
		

> The 225 narrower than the 226 and the rounds go in the mag single stack only leaving room for 8 (although there are larger mags they will extend out).  Smaller dainty hands have a better time with the 225 for this reason.



That must be why we issue them to pilots and fish-heads.   >


----------



## Good2Golf

'Dainty' pilots get the 225. Some pilots are notably less dainty and carry the 226 as standard issue, thus keeping aligned with their customer.


----------



## Loachman

And even less dainty Pilots carry the good old, solid Browning.


----------



## Good2Golf

Nothing at all 'wrong' with the BHP. I would call these-safety 'irritating', but that's it. Solid weapon when cared for (including caring for the mags).  SAS still used it as the principal pistol until recently. :nod:


----------

