# Cockpit recorders needed in CF-18s - military report



## RL206 (23 Jul 2006)

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=64aae8ac-16a4-429c-a70c-f690ff525cd4&k=11291
Cockpit recorders needed in CF-18s - military report 

CanWest News Service; Edmonton Journal
Published: Thursday, July 13, 2006 

 EDMONTON -- All CF-18s should be fitted with cockpit voice recorders and flight data recorders, recommended the Canadian military in a report into the 2003 fatal crash of a CF-18 near Cold Lake, Alta.

Investigators concluded it will never be known for certain what caused 38-year-old Kevin Naismith's supersonic jet to spin out of control, forcing the pilot to eject from the plane. The CF-18 was so badly damaged when it hit the ground that the exact cause of the accident couldn't be determined.

The culprit was probably a malfunctioning control system, said investigators, who also concluded there were a number of deficiencies in the CF18s escape system and the training and procedures associated with that system.

Naismith was found dead in his parachute in a wooded area 200 metres from his downed plane on May 23, 2003. Accident investigators concluded he'd been fatally injured while ejecting.

Naismith had been part of a four-plane formation that was taking part in Maple Flag, Cold Lake's annual multinational war games exercise.

Because the CF-18 has neither a cockpit voice recorder nor a flight data recorder, investigators had to analyze its flight profile using data collected by an instrument pod attached to its wing. That pod, fitted for the Maple Flag exercise, recorded the aircraft's flight path all the way to impact.

Edmonton Journal


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## jbeach95 (24 Jul 2006)

They should have voice recorders and flight data recorders in all aircraft. The information gathered from them would be invaluable in preventing further accidents like this one. The recorders from the Cormorant that crashed off of Nova Scotia are expected to be extremely useful in that investigation.


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## Judy (24 Jul 2006)

?

There are voice recorders in the cockpit.


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## SupersonicMax (24 Jul 2006)

Yes, there is a voice recorder and multiple optical recorders.  However, they are not crash proof.  They WILL break in the event of a crash.

Max


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## Judy (24 Jul 2006)

Okay gotcha.


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## Loachman (27 Jul 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> They WILL break in the event of a crash.


They WILL break?

If that were true, then they wouldn't be any good, would they?

They may not survive every crash, or may not be in any condition to yield useable data in every case, but they are designed and built to be as crashworthy as possible, within the usual constraints of weight and expense.


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## Canadian.Trucker (27 Jul 2006)

I'm surprised there isn't already a "black box" of some kind in our aircraft.  I think it's a good idea if it can help save more lives in the future.


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## Loachman (27 Jul 2006)

There is in most, now, especially the newer ones. Whether it's practical to retrofit such into F18s or not I'm not sure - space, centre-of-gravity, weight, and other factors would determine that. It would have to be pretty well protected to withstand a lawn-dart crash.


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## SupersonicMax (27 Jul 2006)

They are used for debrief mostly.  

Max



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> They WILL break?
> 
> If that were true, then they wouldn't be any good, would they?
> 
> They may not survive every crash, or may not be in any condition to yield useable data in every case, but they are designed and built to be as crashworthy as possible, within the usual constraints of weight and expense.


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## Loachman (27 Jul 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> They are used for debrief mostly.


Excuse me? Cockpit Voice Recorders (CVRs) and Flight Data Recorders (FDRs) are used to assist in crash investigations. CVRs generally only record the last few minutes of the conversation, as the preceding several hours are not likely to be of much interest.


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## SupersonicMax (27 Jul 2006)

Recorders in the 18s are used for debrief and flight eval.  They are NOT crash proof.  There are no Recorders used for crash invertigations in the 18s (as the report states...)

Max


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## Judy (28 Jul 2006)

Agree with Max. 

Whenever a pilot comes down from a mission he'll watch most of the tape to get shot times, assess kill validity, and clear up anything  else that may have happened.


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## Loachman (28 Jul 2006)

My apologies then - we're talking about two different things.

CVGRs and FDRs are crash investigation tools. That's what the article's talking about.


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