# Liberal Arts Degree



## chadk (15 Feb 2014)

I have already contacted the recruiting centre to find out if the military took graduates of liberal arts degrees and they do although limiting your choices.    Mine is in History.  Without seeing a PSO, I am unsure of  what trades I could use it towards within the Navy as I am already serving as an NCM.  Any help would be appreciated.


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## Goose15 (15 Feb 2014)

Mainly MARS or MPO. There is also Int O but that requires one to search for information alone...


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## Journeyman (15 Feb 2014)

Goose15 said:
			
		

> There is also Int O but that requires one to search for information alone...


Feel the burn   :evil:


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## DAA (16 Feb 2014)

chadk said:
			
		

> I have already contacted the recruiting centre to find out if the military took graduates of liberal arts degrees and they do although limiting your choices.    Mine is in History.  Without seeing a PSO, I am unsure of  what trades I could use it towards within the Navy as I am already serving as an NCM.  Any help would be appreciated.



As in "NCM Regular Force" or "NCM Reserve Force"?


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## Pusser (17 Feb 2014)

I have a degree in History and started as a MARS officer.  When I switched to LOG, History was an "acceptable" (but not "preferred" degree for LOG).  Unfortunately, there has been a recent change in policy such that liberal arts degrees are no longer acceptable for LOG.  They're still OK for a host of other occupations.


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## dapaterson (17 Feb 2014)

Pusser said:
			
		

> I have a degree in History and started as a MARS officer.  When I switched to LOG, History was an "acceptable" (but not "preferred" degree for LOG).  Unfortunately, there has been a recent change in policy such that liberal arts degrees are no longer acceptable for LOG.  They're still OK for a host of other occupations.



Which is, of course, absurd.  There's no reason a person with a liberal arts degree shouldn't be able to be a Log officer.  The creeping credentialism in the officer corps makes me wonder whether we are truly seeking an educated and thinking officer corps, or if we're acknowleding that university has become little more than a trade school.

Barring professional requirements for practice (medical, dental, legal and engineering come to mind) there should be no restrictions on the types of degrees for officers.  Hetrogenous populations are more resilient than homogenous.  Using university programs as a basis for occupational selection suggests a degree (no pun inteded) of laziness on the part of the military psychologists tasked with developing selection standards.


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## ballz (17 Feb 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> or if we're acknowleding that university has become little more than a trade school.



Please tell me you didn't mean to make trade school sound like a lesser form of education than a university degree.

Also, if universities are being more of a trade school (specific skill sets for specific employment), it's doing a very poor job of it. Other than people who do professional programs like pharmacy, nursing, medicine, law, accounting, etc (most of which used to be done through apprenticeships), university grads are not coming out "skilled" in anything and not very "learned" either.


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## Pusser (18 Feb 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Which is, of course, absurd.  There's no reason a person with a liberal arts degree shouldn't be able to be a Log officer.  The creeping credentialism in the officer corps makes me wonder whether we are truly seeking an educated and thinking officer corps, or if we're acknowleding that university has become little more than a trade school.
> 
> Barring professional requirements for practice (medical, dental, legal and engineering come to mind) there should be no restrictions on the types of degrees for officers.  Hetrogenous populations are more resilient than homogenous.  Using university programs as a basis for occupational selection suggests a degree (no pun inteded) of laziness on the part of the military psychologists tasked with developing selection standards.



I agree with you 100%.  I would argue that my liberal arts education gave me skills (the ability to research, formulate an argument and present it) that have been of great (if under appreciated) value to the CF.  I would also argue that the "MBA mentality" that has bubbled to the surface in the last decade has been the root cause of some or our most serious problems, but that is something for an entirely different discussion.


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## dapaterson (18 Feb 2014)

ballz said:
			
		

> Please tell me you didn't mean to make trade school sound like a lesser form of education than a university degree.



Not my intent at all.  It's meant as a differentiation, not as greater / lesser. 



> Also, if universities are being more of a trade school (specific skill sets for specific employment), it's doing a very poor job of it. Other than people who do professional programs like pharmacy, nursing, medicine, law, accounting, etc (most of which used to be done through apprenticeships), university grads are not coming out "skilled" in anything and not very "learned" either.



But that's the rub.  A traditional liberal arts education is not supposed to be about learning job skills, but rather about teaching to learn, and reason, and giving a grounding in classics - so there is a knowledge of the past, and a willingness to learn from it.  I won't argue your assessment at all; I recall at one point having to write an essay to prove I was able to write.  I forget the assigned topic, but I turned into a screed or diatribe about how, if such testing was required of students already enrolled, that the university had failed to apply even a minimal entry standard.


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## dapaterson (18 Feb 2014)

Pusser said:
			
		

> I agree with you 100%.  I would argue that my liberal arts education gave me skills (the ability to research, formulate an argument and present it) that have been of great (if under appreciated) value to the CF.  I would also argue that the "MBA mentality" that has bubbled to the surface in the last decade has been the root cause of some or our most serious problems, but that is something for an entirely different discussion.



Ah yes, the MBA that figures a soldier returning from patrol with ammunition is an indication of a failed supply system, since clearly that soldier was issued more ammo than was needed.  

Get enough of those folks running things...


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## OblivionKnight (18 Feb 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Which is, of course, absurd.  There's no reason a person with a liberal arts degree shouldn't be able to be a Log officer.  The creeping credentialism in the officer corps makes me wonder whether we are truly seeking an educated and thinking officer corps, or if we're acknowleding that university has become little more than a trade school.
> 
> Barring professional requirements for practice (medical, dental, legal and engineering come to mind) there should be no restrictions on the types of degrees for officers.  Hetrogenous populations are more resilient than homogenous.  Using university programs as a basis for occupational selection suggests a degree (no pun inteded) of laziness on the part of the military psychologists tasked with developing selection standards.



I wish that was the case. I have a bachelor's degree in life sciences with a decent GPA and courses from multiple disciplines (humanities, social sciences, biology, earth sciences, etc.), and apparently I only qualify for Pilot, AEC, ACSO, MARS, and the combat arms. I really wanted to do HCA, LOG, and even considered MPO. Unfortunately my degree doesn't qualify me for those occupations. I find it strange that a degree in arts is required for MPO, since law enforcement outside of the military doesn't care about which degree one has. I even applied to the RCMP in the past and scored very high on the RPAB (which tests comprehension, memory, judgment, logic, etc.) and received the selection package within a month. I guess the Forces doesn't really care about aptitude as much as they care about an applicant's undergraduate degree (as if it actually prepares one for anything in the real world!).


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## George Wallace (18 Feb 2014)

OblivionKnight said:
			
		

> ....... I find it strange that a degree in arts is required for MPO, since law enforcement outside of the military doesn't care about which degree one has. I.......



You are under a misconception of what a MPO actually is.  I will leave it to the members of this site who are MPs or MPOs to define the differences.


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## Goose15 (18 Feb 2014)

Here is a good thread: Questions about MP vs MPO


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