# Coast Guard Forced To Lease?



## Kirkhill (18 Nov 2016)

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-coast-guard-may-be-forced-to-lease-icebreakers-as-aging-fleet-increasingly-at-risk-of-breakdowns

Is that really all that bad?



> Canadian Coast Guard may be forced to lease icebreakers as aging fleet increasingly at risk of breakdowns
> 
> Lee Berthiaume, The Canadian Press | November 18, 2016 7:25 AM ET
> 
> ...



A number of other countries have leased government vessels from the private sector, including the UK and the US.  Some of those vessels were armed as well.  Even AOPS type ships have been leased.

So, is leasing really all that bad an option?  Especially at this time when the existing inventory is so old, capital is limited, roles are in flux and capabilities have to be explored.


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## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2016)

They leased the Terry Fox for awhile if I recall correctly. The problem is that you may not be able to lease the Icebreaker type you need.


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## Kirkhill (18 Nov 2016)

Colin P said:
			
		

> They leased the Terry Fox for awhile if I recall correctly. The problem is that you may not be able to lease the Icebreaker type you need.



My sense is that the demand is so great and the supply is so small that starting to fill the gap with what is available shouldn't be a problem.  Whatever gap(s) remain could then be filled by "custom" solutions.


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## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2016)

You need to decide if it's going to be a river class icebreaker, medium ocean going or if you need a heavy icebreaker, I suspect most are in the former 2, heavies will be hard to find with a good size crane as well.


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## Kirkhill (18 Nov 2016)

How about new build lease?  And more generally applied to include multi-task and patrol vessels?


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## suffolkowner (18 Nov 2016)

Time to take another look at the options coming out of Davie? The two VS4220 and the Aiviq?


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## chrisf (18 Nov 2016)

The lease is for tugs, not ice breakers...

Specially, ocean going tugs capable of towing a large tanker or container vessel...

http://tugfaxblogspotcom.blogspot.ca/2016/11/etv-on-horizon.html?m=1

I can't see them paying the day rate for the clipper and cutter, but with the slow down in the oil industry, there's all sorts of older cheaper anchor handlers available to fill the need.

Coincidentally, the clipper and cutter have features that they haven't asked for, but would be an excellent selling point, both have an oil recovery operations (oro) system, basically turns the boats into a big oil vacuum, store the recovered waste in their cargo tanks.


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## MarkOttawa (18 Nov 2016)

CP story at start of topic amazingly doesn't mention Davie interest:



> Davie Québec Actually Going to Supply Some Icebreakers for Coast Guard?
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/mark-collins-davie-quebec-actually-going-to-supply-some-icebreakers-for-coast-guard/



Mark
Ottawa


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## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2016)

My concern for the tugs is they will lease them , add them to the fleet and not provide any or very little funds to run them.


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## suffolkowner (18 Nov 2016)

Not a Sig Op said:
			
		

> The lease is for tugs, not ice breakers...
> 
> Specially, ocean going tugs capable of towing a large tanker or container vessel...
> 
> ...



Yeah I got confused and forgot where I was posting


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## MarkOttawa (18 Nov 2016)

Meanwhile first three CCG vessels building at Seaspan--long story, note Davie at end of quote:



> Shipshape at Seaspan
> The first federal government vessels are taking shape in North Vancouver
> 
> Under a movable shelter several storeys high at Seaspan Shipyards, the graceful curve of a ship’s bow arcs upwards, dwarfing the hard-hatted workers who stand on the yard below.
> ...



Mark
Ottawa


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## Colin Parkinson (18 Nov 2016)

Pictures are always great http://www.seaspan.com/nss-progress-galleries/nss-photo-gallery-ofsv1


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## MarkOttawa (20 Nov 2016)

From Davie on Aiviq, icebreaker it is proposing for CCG--note Polar Class 3, same as Louis St. Laurent:
http://www.davie.ca/pdf/Aiviq.pdf

Image via sister company, Federal Fleet (helo sure looks like CH-148, not planned for CCG):
http://federalfleet.ca/2016/06/21/fast-track-polar-icebreaker/







Federal Fleet also involved with Davie on Prokect Resolve AOR conversion for RCN:
http://federalfleet.ca/2016/07/01/resolve-class-aor-a-strategic-enabler-for-canadian-humanitarian-assistance-and-disaster-relief-capabilities/






Mark
Ottawa


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## Kirkhill (20 Nov 2016)

Interesting how more of the artwork seems to be incorporating LCVPs instead of simple boats.


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## blacktriangle (20 Nov 2016)

Chris Pook said:
			
		

> Interesting how more of the artwork seems to be incorporating LCVPs instead of simple boats.



More efficiently facilitates the redistribution of first-world wealth.


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## MarkOttawa (20 Nov 2016)

CCG actually getting seven Bell medium helos:



> Canadian Coast Guard’s New Medium-Lift Helos Sole-Sourced to Bell Helicopter Canada
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/mark-collins-canadian-coast-guards-new-medium-lift-helos-sole-sourced-to-bell-canada/



Plus 15 light Bell ones:



> Bell Rung: All 15 Canadian Coast Guard Light Helos Delivered
> https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/03/14/mark-collins-bell-rung-all-15-canadian-coast-guard-light-helos-delivered/



Much smoother acquisitions than for Canadian Armed forces--little media attention or political uproar, made in Quebec.

Mark
Ottawa


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## Kirkhill (20 Nov 2016)

Spectrum said:
			
		

> More efficiently facilitates the redistribution of first-world wealth.



Got it! Bigger scoop.


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## chrisf (20 Nov 2016)

Chris Pook said:
			
		

> Interesting how more of the artwork seems to be incorporating LCVPs instead of simple boats.



Not really, most of the existing coast guard ice breakers have a "barge" and an frc.

They're useful for bouy laying, and useful for landing supplies/people ashore.

Particularly in the Arctic where proper ports that can accommodate the ship are few and far between.

Though aside from maybe the Louis s st Laurent, they're not typically lcvp sized.

If you could see the other side, there would likely be a Miranda Davit with an zodiac frc.


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## chrisf (20 Nov 2016)

See attached photos of the CCGS Ann Harvey and the CCGS Louis S St Laurent.

The Harvey has her landing barge (Aluminum hulled, probably about 20' long, has an engine and a small wheel house, with a short landing ramp forward and a stern roller aft) in davits just aft of her life boat.

This is typical of what you'll find on most of the ice breakers now, with a zodiac FRC in a miranda davit on the opposite side.

The Louis has her landing barge (Steel hulled, probably about 40' long, has an engine, and a small wheel house, and a large landing ramp forward, sort of looks like a half sized LCM-8) also in a davit just aft of her life boat.

The Louis has an FRC, but does not have a davit for her FRC, it's typically stowed on top in the center, there's a flat open deck aft of the stack, and it's launched/recovered by her cargo crane... needless to say she needs pretty much perfect weather for it. There's usually a smaller zodiac up there as well related to helicopter operations, also launched/recovered with the crane.

Side note, the coast guard loves their miranda davits, and aside from being a bit rough on the paint on the super structure, they're about the best you can get for launch and recovery of an FRC, I'm genuinely surprised they haven't been more widely adopted.


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## Colin Parkinson (21 Nov 2016)

Not a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Not really, most of the existing coast guard ice breakers have a "barge" and an frc.
> 
> They're useful for bouy laying, and useful for landing supplies/people ashore.
> 
> ...



The barge has tanks in them to deliver fuel, they are a terrible design, going astern you lose most of your thrust against the hull, the prop can be turned 360 degrees and has no rudder, except you can only turn the prop when it's engaged. These boats can be a real bugger to handle. The weld quality is also terrible. We also have a Zodiac 733 and a Fiberglass Workboat, those are really nice boats.


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## chrisf (21 Nov 2016)

There's multiple versions in use, the aluminium hulled version is about the same size, but has an wheel house on the centre of the port side, and has a stern roller fitted for laying bouys.

Im almost certain the aluminium hulled barges have a rudder.


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## Colin Parkinson (21 Nov 2016)

Quite possible, I was working on them back in 92. It's really , really loud using a needle gun on them when they are on the hard.


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## Kirkhill (27 Sep 2018)

Bump on Leasing - 

In addition to leasing the Asterix from Federal Fleet Services and buying three used Icebreakers for the Coast Guard for conversion by Davie the Government is also leasing a pair of Ocean Going tugs from Atlantic Towing - jointly crewed by Atlantic Towing and the Coast Guard.







The locals were not impressed - 



> "A Missed Opportunity for Reconciliation" ... Heiltsuk First Nation disappointed after Federal contract award on ocean towing
> 
> The seas are significantly more choppy in relations between the Heiltsuk First Nation and the Federal Government today, as Chief Councillor Marilyn Slett outlined the disappointment in her community at a decision to award a three year Ocean towing contract to Atlantic Towing Limited.
> 
> ...



http://northcoastreview.blogspot.com/2018/08/a-missed-opportunity-for-reconciliation.html

So we have natives that don't want a tanker moratorium.
We have natives that want to operate their own Support Vessels
We have natives that want to build pipelines
We have natives that want to build refineries and depots.

And we have a government that is responsible for managing the land claims and relations with the natives and they can't figure out how to cut a deal.  On the other hand, should we be surprised?  These are the same people that can't figure out how to cut a deal for ships, planes, boots .... or trade.

Maybe we need to stop hiring lawyers and MBAs and start hiring Used Car Salesmen.  If  nothing else the ethical standard would improve.


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