# BMOQ Survival Tips for St Jean



## jacksparrow (6 Dec 2008)

I think it's only fair that I share my experience from this course I finished last month. There were some things I wish I knew before going to St Jean. Anyhoo, here are some tips 

- Answer your instructors by saying yes or no "staff" ( if you don't know their rank )
- You are not to use the elevator unless MIR ( sick bay for you newbies ) allows it
- You march everywhere on the ground, even when in civies which will happen after wk4 when you get some priviledges
- You have to work together with your peers to survive ( you will have fire team partner )
- never drop the ball on inspections from day 1, learn to make your bed with hospital corners now, iron clothes and polish shoes
- You can cut corners by having 2 of each toileteries, the 2nd set goes in your "personal locker" ( not part of the inspection )
- Get yourself in shape physically now, otherwise you'll pay the price by ending up on PAT or RFT for months
- Even when you decide to VR ( voluntary release ), you can end up being there in the trailers for months.
- someone that VR'ed after we finished IAP, even though they passed and decided the CF was not for them, is still there now on PAR
- Start working on your map reading ( topography ), first aid ( choking baby and unconscious adult ), and general military knowledge now
- Be ready to walk alot when you go to the field ( Farham and St Bruno for Topo )
- Get used to wearing a Tac Vest that weighs about 30lbs with helmet and rifle in hand ( from wk 7 onwards )
- Don't forget to take your beret off before you pass the pic of the queen when lined up for food
- Once you get your cap badge, you have to salute officers, mainly in the orange sector
- Pray that you end up with Army infantry PPCLI instructors and Capt, it will do you good, trust me  ;D
- lights out at 11pm wk days and 1am wkends
- Try to avoid swipes and councellings, otherwise you will end up in front of the PRB
- Never turn down the role of CPC, happened to me in wk 1 during IAP and it was the wrong move on my part. Come 1st day of BOTP, I was given the chance again, and I grabbed it with both hands. I was 2IC many times though, 4 times in wk1 to 4 different CPCs that kept getting fired.

Am sure other will add to this list


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## Celticgirl (6 Dec 2008)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> 4 times in wk1 to 4 different CPCs that kept getting fired.



Why were they fired?


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## forza_milan (6 Dec 2008)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> - You can cut corners by having 2 of each toileteries, the 2nd set goes in your "personal locker" ( not part of the inspection )



Thanks for your tips. They are very much appreciated. However, with this particular point I have quoted above, there is a huge thread in this forum (IIRC the _no excuse (bmq tips)_ thread), about not cutting corners with a personal toiletry kit. :-\ However, your advice here is that it is okay to have a second kit? Isn't that frowned upon? Didn't mean to hijack this thread with discussions about toiletries lol - just that there are a lot of mixed signals regarding this. Just trying to understand  Thanks.


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## benny88 (6 Dec 2008)

This is overdone. There are huge threads that give more succinct and accurate information than this.


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## Marinero2008 (6 Dec 2008)

Hey, the guy is just sharing his observations. No need to burn him for that. At least he took time to write something for others from his own experience.


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## benny88 (6 Dec 2008)

korabian said:
			
		

> Hey, the guy is just sharing his observations. No need to burn him for that. At least he took time to write something for others from his own experience.



I'm not burning him. Just saying he should add to existing threads, not repeat them.


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## Marinero2008 (6 Dec 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Just saying he should add to existing threads, not repeat them.


 
Well, he would have but he didn't. No big deal. He posted in "Basic Training" which is a right place for it. I still complement  him for his effort. 
That's enough of that. I will move on now.


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## George Wallace (6 Dec 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> I'm not burning him. Just saying he should add to existing threads, not repeat them.



Perhaps he felt he and BMOQ were "unique".   Something that "No one" had ever done before.  Or perhaps jsut: http://www.fakeposters.com/view/32/


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## Celticgirl (6 Dec 2008)

In the OP's defense - not that he/she needs my assistance - this is about BMOQ, not BMQ. I have been lead to believe, both through reading about the courses on the CFLRS website and from talking to NCMs and Officers, that there are some fundamental differences between these courses. Personally, I would be pleased to see more info about the basic Officer courses (IAP and BOTP) on this site.


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## aesop081 (6 Dec 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> that there are some fundamental differences between these courses.



Of course there are. That being said, there are universal truths to life in the military that do not differ between officers and NCMs. These will apply to both courses.


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## Celticgirl (6 Dec 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Of course there are. That being said, there are universal truths to life in the military that do not differ between officers and NCMs. These will apply to both courses.



That does not mean we shouldn't have separate threads for NCM courses and Officer courses. Universal truths do not answer specific questions about specific courses.


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## Nfld Sapper (6 Dec 2008)

And round and round we go..............


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## Eye In The Sky (6 Dec 2008)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> I think it's only fair that I share my experience from this course I finished last month. There were some things I wish I knew before going to St Jean. Anyhoo, here are some tips
> 
> - Answer your instructors by saying yes or no "staff" ( if you don't know their rank )
> - You are not to use the elevator unless MIR ( sick bay for you newbies ) allows it
> ...



I see this thread as a wasted database record.  However, if you are so knowledgeable, please provide your thoughts on how the f**k you think someone not in the military will get used to a TACVEST and walking with a weapon, GSK, and the other things I highlighted?

Again, IMO a wasted effort.  As for those of you who "applaude" the effort, I liken it to someone shooting at the wrong target with a BAD grouping.  You''re comments about getting only PPCLI instructors is just stupid.  Are you saying the RCD, RCR, etc instructors all blow chunks??  STFU.

"Mainly in the Orange Sector" is a stupid comment to tell people when they salute Officers, by the way.  If you can't provide the correct info, you're better off providing NO info.

Here are my BMOQ/BMQ/whatever survival tips.

DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD, WHEN YOU'RE TOLD, HOW YOU'RE TOLD.  LEAD WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LEAD, FOLLOW WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW.  THE REST OF THE TIME, STFU.  DON'T BE A BLADE (i.e. a buddy f**cker).  K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)

If you can remember that short list and apply it to your BMOQ training, you should be ok.

That is all.


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## Mario (15 Dec 2008)

forza_milan said:
			
		

> Thanks for your tips. They are very much appreciated. However, with this particular point I have quoted above, there is a huge thread in this forum (IIRC the _no excuse (bmq tips)_ thread), about not cutting corners with a personal toiletry kit. :-\ However, your advice here is that it is okay to have a second kit? Isn't that frowned upon? Didn't mean to hijack this thread with discussions about toiletries lol - just that there are a lot of mixed signals regarding this. Just trying to understand  Thanks.



My staff specifically told us to only use on toiletry kit, and that we'd recieve a Serious Incident if we were caught with a 2nd one. That aside, there's very little work involved in simply cleaning your shaving cream/toothpaste before an inspection. (I just use my toothbrush and spend about 20 seconds total cleaning them both, then dry them off with a paper towel and ta-da)


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## Command-Sense-Act 105 (15 Dec 2008)

...


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Dec 2008)

round and around we go again.


 :


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## George Wallace (15 Dec 2008)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> round and around we go again.
> 
> 
> :



They'll all be in Disneyland on the Rideau in a few years as Cubical Gnomes creating new acronyms for every Trade and Crse in the CF and Space Command (yet another .COM).


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## PMedMoe (15 Dec 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> They'll all be in Disneyland on the Rideau in a few years as Cubical Gnomes creating new acronyms for every Trade and Crse in the CF and Space Command (yet another .COM).



Hey, that's the job _I_ want!    Not!  



			
				Mario said:
			
		

> I just use my toothbrush and spend about 20 seconds total cleaning them both, then dry them off with a paper towel and ta-da



And then do you brush your teeth?  :-X


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## Celticgirl (15 Dec 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> They'll all be in Disneyland on the Rideau in a few years as Cubical Gnomes creating new acronyms for every Trade and Crse in the CF and Space Command (yet another .COM).



Is there any need of this?



			
				Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> As for those of you who "applaude" the effort, I liken it to someone shooting at the wrong target with a BAD grouping.



Or this?

Sorry, guys, but I don't see the point in tearing down the 'newbies'. Some of us are still learning the ropes and are here to get information and pick up on the 'culture' of the CF. We respect the knowledge and experience that many of the members here possess and that is precisely why we are here. Why can't you all respect that some new members and applicants are looking for a little direction from you, and recognize that the degrading and dismissive posts do nothing to help _any_ of us (yourselves included)?


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## Narcisse (15 Dec 2008)

Nicely said Celticgirl,

I'm exactly here for those reasons and I thought I could be helped but those having lot's of experience. I know that some guys here are very helpful, thanks to them. But others are taking there years of services to laugh about other's questions. That's sad because the first role of this forum is about helping, what you guys are surely not doing. You should think about it.

Peace.


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## George Wallace (15 Dec 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Is there any need of this?
> Sorry, guys, but I don't see the point in tearing down the 'newbies'. Some of us are still learning the ropes and are here to get information and pick up on the 'culture' of the CF. We respect the knowledge and experience that many of the members here possess and that is precisely why we are here. Why can't you all respect that some new members and applicants are looking for a little direction from you, and recognize that the degrading and dismissive posts do nothing to help _any_ of us (yourselves included)?



Sorry Celticgirl and Narcisse

You obviously condone rehashing the same drivel over and over.  Unfortunately the rest of us have moved on.  We have pointed people in the direction to find the answers, and found that their initiative and leadership potential to be lacking, so we have resorted to other tactics to direct them to more productive research.  Ridicule is one such method.  We expect our Service Members to be adept at using their initiative.  This is not a job flipping burgers.  We train to bring extreme violence down on evil people.  Holding up a "Time Out" card will not cut it when the bullets are flying.  No member of the CF is exempt the fact that they may find themselves under hostile fire.   

Remember this for your future training; It is not personal.


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## aesop081 (15 Dec 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Sorry, guys, but I don't see the point in tearing down the 'newbies'.



So because you dont see the point, it makes it wrong ?

 :


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## Run away gun (15 Dec 2008)

You people just joining come here to seek information from the "been there, done that" crowd and then respond with a backlash when they tell you how it works in the real world. Would you rather have it sugar coated and then be awe struck by reality later down the road?


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## Run away gun (15 Dec 2008)

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> I think it's only fair that I share my experience from this course I finished last month. There were some things I wish I knew before going to St Jean. Anyhoo, here are some tips
> 
> - Answer your instructors by saying yes or no "staff" ( if you don't know their rank )
> - You are not to use the elevator unless MIR ( sick bay for you newbies ) allows it
> ...



Most of your "tips" are either things that new recruits are told the first week on the ground, or they are right of 'er.


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## AD (15 Dec 2008)

Most of this information can also be found in the joining instructions. Things like polishing your boots, and topography are taught to you there. While a basic knowledge is good to have before hand, it is not required. Everything you need to know will be taught to you by your instructors, and everything you need to know prior to heading to st.jean is in your joining instructions. So worry not. 
My "tips" for BMOQ would include things to bring or buy while you're there that aren't listed in the joining instructions.
-baby wipes  (they will be a quick source of hygiene in the field.)
-an extra tooth brush or 2 (for boot polishing and weapon cleaning)
-little paint brushes, and CO2 air canister (weapon cleaning) 
-Q-tips (general cleaning)
-a leatherman or Gerber tool (black)- it helps in the field, but not necessary
-a clock RADIO- music helps.
-nail clippers
-a tide-to-go pen (just in case)
-nylon tights (Cut into pieces and distribute to your section or platoon is there's enough...carry it in your pocket...use it to give your boots a quick shine during breaks)
-GET INSOLES (good insoles for your boots, you'll be on your feet a lot)
- for the ladies out there: mens underwear. boxer brief, the silky kind are best. friction in that area is not your friend
-toy soliders (for ground map)

The items used for the field can be purchased on your first weekend away from base. By then, you'll have an idea of what you want/need.

But like any course, you'll be given joining instructions which will tell you what you need to know before hand. Everything else will be taught to you while you're there. You are a blank canvas, and you will be painted. Trust your instructors, do your job, do it well, and you'll be fine.

Happy holidays, all!


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## George Wallace (15 Dec 2008)

While you are making up lists of what to take into the Field...........Remember one thing:


You have to carry it.


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Dec 2008)

Allie'd forces said:
			
		

> Most of this information can also be found in the joining instructions. Things like polishing your boots, and topography are taught to you there. While a basic knowledge is good to have before hand, it is not required. Everything you need to know will be taught to you by your instructors, and everything you need to know prior to heading to st.jean is in your joining instructions. So worry not.
> My "tips" for BMOQ would include things to bring or buy while you're there that aren't listed in the joining instructions.
> -baby wipes  (they will be a quick source of hygiene in the field.)
> -an extra tooth brush or 2 (for boot polishing and weapon cleaning)
> ...


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## benny88 (16 Dec 2008)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> -a leatherman or Gerber tool (black)- it helps in the field, but not necessary* Item will be issued to you IIRC*-
> 
> for the ladies out there: mens underwear. boxer brief, the silky kind are best. friction in that area is not your friend *Underwear is issued*



Not in St-Jean these days. You can ask for undies back at a unit, and I assume Gerbers as well for Army types, but no one on my IAP (2007) or BOTP (2008) were issued those two items on course.


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## Cleared Hot (16 Dec 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Sorry Celticgirl and Narcisse
> 
> We have pointed people in the direction to find the answers, and found that their initiative and leadership potential to be lacking, so we have resorted to other tactics to direct them to more productive research.  Ridicule is one such method.  We expect our Service Members to be adept at using their initiative.  This is not a job flipping burgers.  We train to bring extreme violence down on evil people.  Holding up a "Time Out" card will not cut it when the bullets are flying.  No member of the CF is exempt the fact that they may find themselves under hostile fire.
> 
> Remember this for your future training; It is not personal.



I may be new to the site but am by no means a newbie and I am calling BS on this.  It is not the mandate of anyone associated with this site to worry about training new recruits.  Do us all a favour and leave that to the CF training system.  This site just celebrated its 100 000th post (and counting) so admittedly there is a lot of info on it but the search engine is not the best and the info can be hard to find.  If you know where it is why don't you go ahead and post a link and lock this one.  While the old veterans may have seen this before, these guys haven't.  but the good news is they are already starting to work as a team and help each other out which is *exactly* what we are looking for.  If you have heard it before don't read it or better yet help them out by showing them where to find it - there was not one link given by anyone in this thread so no you didn't try and point them in the right direction.  Make no mistake, I know the info that has been posted on this thread to date is of little value to a brad new recruit and some was plain wrong (that is other than Eye in the Sky's "DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD, WHEN YOU'RE TOLD, HOW YOU'RE TOLD.  LEAD WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LEAD, FOLLOW WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW.  THE REST OF THE TIME, STFU.  DON'T BE A BLADE (i.e. a buddy f**cker).  K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)").  We are all on the same team here, too bad it's the newbies who remember that more than the veterans.


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## Nfld Sapper (16 Dec 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Not in St-Jean these days. You can ask for undies back at a unit, and I assume Gerbers as well for Army types, but no one on my IAP (2007) or BOTP (2008) were issued those two items on course.



I find the underwear hard to believe as its on the scale of issue for recruits IIRC. If I can get them at this little hole in the wall CFS a place like CFLRS should have no problems getting it.


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## AD (16 Dec 2008)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> I find the underwear hard to believe as its on the scale of issue for recruits IIRC. If I can get them at this little hole in the wall CFS a place like CFLRS should have no problems getting it.



I was not issued underwear during IAP or BOTP. Perhaps it was because I am female and they are male underwear which is why I suggested buying them. I purchased my own male style underwear on my first weekend away from base. Most units however will supply the underwear with no problems regardless of gender. For me, avoiding chaffing was essential to my survival in st.jean which was why I posted.

Allie


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## Nfld Sapper (16 Dec 2008)

Shouldn't matter, the Drawers Temperate Underwear (DTU) 







Description – *The DTU is unisex design underwear*. It features mid-thigh length legs with turned in cuffs, a double layer front gusset and a modified, inverted triangular back gusset. The waistband is add-on elastic.


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## AD (16 Dec 2008)

Good to know. I was issued them at my unit.
But once again, they are not issued in St.Jean. It may have changed since I was there this summer.
We should start an underwear thread


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## The Dunnminator (16 Dec 2008)

Back to the original topic, I simply don't think there is anything you can do to be prepared for basic training, no matter how much information you can get from this site, you are going to make mistake and then you will have to adapt. Trust your instructors, they will tell you everything you need to know.


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## George Wallace (16 Dec 2008)

Allie'd forces said:
			
		

> Good to know. I was issued them at my unit.
> But once again, they are not issued in St.Jean. It may have changed since I was there this summer.
> We should start an underwear thread



There is also a shortage here.  May be a shortage Forces wide.  A subversive plot by a certain DOT COM to get more people to go Commando.


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Dec 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Sorry, guys, but I don't see the point in tearing down the 'newbies'. Some of us are still learning the ropes and are here to get information and pick up on the 'culture' of the CF. We respect the knowledge and experience that many of the members here possess and that is precisely why we are here. Why can't you all respect that some new members and applicants are looking for a little direction from you, and recognize that the degrading and dismissive posts do nothing to help _any_ of us (yourselves included)?



So, if someone like the OP posts a bunch of crap, and I call him/her on it, isn't THAT helping out the newbies?  Someone should suggest that if your staff aren't PPCLI, they are right out of it??

I called a spade a spade simply because someone posted stuff that was crap and people like you, who haven't been there yet, will read it and be influenced by it and form  ideas about CFLRS/CF, etc.  We can sit on our hands if you'd prefer and let people fill your head with manure...


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## George Wallace (16 Dec 2008)

OK!

Enough of this BS.  No need for any bun fights.

Enough of children lecturing adults.  Enough of this opinion by some that they are unique.  There are topics on Suggestions, and topics on Tips.  None are specific to one crse and one crse only.  If you have any questions about this subject, whether it be a Recruit Crse or any Leadership Crse, the TIPs and Suggestions are all the same, so look for them in one of the many topics which are already dozens of pages long.  



			
				Cleared Hot said:
			
		

> ......  This site just celebrated its 100 000th post (and counting) so admittedly there is a lot of info on it but the search engine is not the best and the info can be hard to find.  If you know where it is why don't you go ahead and post a link and lock this one.



Admittedly it is not the best, but if one uses a little imagination and read the directions, one can find most of the relevant material.  Creating yet another topic on a subject, only makes the searching harder to pinpoint pertinent facts.  As for posting links, I noticed you also did not find the time to do someone else's homework and provide one.  

Good points about the newbies and prospects to the CF is:


			
				Cleared Hot said:
			
		

> ............the good news is they are already starting to work as a team and help each other out which is *exactly* what we are looking for.  ............................................  Make no mistake, I know the info that has been posted on this thread to date is of little value to a brad new recruit and some was plain wrong (that is other than Eye in the Sky's "DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD, WHEN YOU'RE TOLD, HOW YOU'RE TOLD.  LEAD WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LEAD, FOLLOW WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW.  THE REST OF THE TIME, STFU.  DON'T BE A BLADE (i.e. a buddy f**cker).  K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)").



With that I will LOCK this topic as it is spiralling downhill and the topic has, as mentioned, been covered much better in several more informative threads.


George
Milnet Staff


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