# Canadian vs. US Terms



## CaroleNF (25 Aug 2000)

I‘m looking for some examples of Canadian vs. US military terms, e.g. recce - recon, and other things that are roughly equivalent but are called by different names.


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## Michael Dorosh (25 Aug 2000)

For what period?

In World War Two it was a lot more diverse.

Modern examples include

GOC - General Officer Commanding (Canadian)
Commanding General (US)

OC - Officer Commanding  (Canadian term for officer in charge of a company)
Company Commander (US)

The US had armoured battalions, we call an armoured unit of the same size a "regiment".  A US armoured battalion is made up of companies, our "regiments" are made up of "squadrons".

Canadians abbreviate Private as PTE, Americans do it as PVT.

There are many others.  What kind of project are you working on?


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## CaroleNF (26 Aug 2000)

I‘m interested in contemporary terms.  Why I‘m asking is, I have a son in the Canadian Army Reserves, and had a letter from a relative who‘s in the US military, asking "how‘s the family GI?" He wondered if they were called GI‘s in Canada.  Before replying I started thinking that there are probably many instances of the same things being referred to by different terms, that he might find interesting.  I seem to remember seeing a posting/article somewhere a few weeks ago, mentioning "Leftenant-Lootenant", "Iltis-Hummer" and some other items relating to military equipment, practices, titles, etc.  But I can‘t find that posting now.

Thanks for you reply, and I‘d like to hear if you have more to add.


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## RCA (28 Aug 2000)

There are numerous examples. For instance:
 We don‘t enlist we‘re recruted (Thats why we have NCMs as opposed to enlisted men. (no GI in Canada either)
 combats as opposed to fatiuges
 units not outfits
 messes as opposed to clubs

 There many more if your intrested


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## Michael Dorosh (29 Aug 2000)

I‘d be careful about slang - much of our slang does come from the States (the word "outfit" to describe a unit had been used in Canadian military circles for at least 60 years, though probably not nearly as commonly as in the States).  Some American slang has made its way into the Canadian military via US TV and movies - ie we call infantrymen "grunts", a term used by the US Army in Vietnam.  It‘s all part of the move away from the British influence (a move I and many don‘t like, but it is happening nonetheless).

Excellent point about EMs.  In the States, non-commissioned soldiers are called "Enlisted Men". Here they are "Non Commissioned Members."  Some people still use the term "Other Ranks", which was in use before Unification.

Also, in Canada we have what we call a Guard of Honour - in the States they have Honor Guards.

In Canada, the flag is flown at half-staff.  In the States, it is "half mast."  (I hope this is right).


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## RCA (29 Aug 2000)

More on the subject:
We go on exercise, they go on manuvers
Drillwise, we have rigt, left, and about turns whereas they have right, left and about faces.
infantry sections (Can) vs infantry squads (US)
NCO (Can) vs NonCom (US)
Detachment Commander (Arty - Can) vs Crew Chief (US)
 As to thge other points - Half mast is correct here and the new term for ORs is NCMs (Non commissioned members which includes Pte to CWO as opposed to Ptes & Cpls for ORs)


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## Michael Dorosh (29 Aug 2000)

Canadians "Stand at Ease", Americans have "Parade Rest."

Americans use "Canteens", we use "waterbottles".

Americans use "clips", we use "magazines"

Americans wear "shoulder sleeve insignia", we have "shoulder flashes"

Americans wear "dog tags", we wear "Identity discs" (even though they have been the same rectangular pattern (and not discs at all) since 1950 and the Korean War.)

American civvies call it a Hummer - US soldiers call it a HUMV.  My friend bought one surplus (and spent a year trying to get it across the border) - they ride more like an MLVW than an Iltis - diesel powered with hard seats and very, very loud!  

If a Canadian puts his hands in his pockets while in uniform, he will be yelled at about "American gloves."  And if he is chewing gum, he will be asked (not nicely) "Are you an American?" before being ordered to get rid of it.

American fatigues are also called BDUs (for Battle Dress Uniform).  The Canadian Army wore Battle Dress also - but stopped in the late 60s and early 70s.

Canadians wear toques - so do Americans, but they have never heard the word "toque" before.

Americans eat MREs (Meal, Ready to Eat), and Canadians eat IMPs.

In Canada, a "Regiment" is an administrative entity in most cases, in the States the term denotes a specific unit equal to a Canadian "Brigade".

A Canadian Regimental Sergeant Major is the top NCM in a unit - in the States the top (enlisted) dog in a battalion is the First Sergeant (or "Top").

In Canada, Warrant Officer grades are a natural progression of the rank structure, in the States they are more like specialist ranks.  (Can someone explain them to me?)

Canadian NCOs wear "chevrons" or "hooks", American NCOs wear "stripes" with "rockers".

Canadians wear "Cap Badges" (or "cap brass" as some call it), Americans wear "Hat Badges"

In World War Two, Canadians laughed at Americans for using "unmilitary" terms like "5/4 ton truck" (instead of "15 hundred weight"), "gasoline" (instead of "petrol"), "flashlight" (instead of "torch"), "wrench" (instead of "spanner") etc., but things have come full circle and the Canadian military now uses the same "civvie" terminology the Americans did.

We honour the dead or end the day with "Last Post", Americans do it with "Taps".


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## tinman (30 Aug 2000)

Michael,

I always thought Officer Commanding was (officially) used to refer to regiment/battalion commanders. Do you know what was used officially at this level?



Martin Schenkel


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Aug 2000)

Commanding Officer


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## Mr Magoo (30 Aug 2000)

The Wo ranks in the States are used to employ personnel 
into specialist positions that would normally require a 
commission to occupy.  For example, pilots are often WOs.  
They‘re outside the normal career progression, you won‘t 
make Wing Commander as a WO, but you‘ll fly.


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## CaroleNF (11 Sep 2000)

Thanks for your info, guys.  It was very helpful and interesting.


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## katherine6809 (5 Nov 2003)

I‘m Richard

From the nethelands.

i‘have one question around the canadian dogtag

Ask where is the groove for at the underside of the id plate.

richard


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## combat_medic (5 Nov 2003)

Another big difference would be the Rank vs. appointment debate.

In the US, there are Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, and Sergeant Major of Army, which are each separate ranks. In Canada, a Chief Warrant Officer (CWO) would be doing all of those jobs. He won‘t get promoted to another rank, but would be appointed to a higher position.


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## combat_medic (5 Nov 2003)

Whether or not they are all E-9, there are different names, insignia, and positions for each. Whereas a CWO is a CWO whether he‘s a CSM, RSM, Base SM, Brigade SM, or the SM of the Army or the CF.


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## Danjanou (5 Nov 2003)

Carole,

As you can see it ain‘t as easy and simple as that. Our cultures have become integrated over the years and that obviously has included our respective military‘s with some terms crossing and recrossing the border.

Maj. Baker correct me if I‘m wrong but wouldn‘t one way of looking at the Warrant Officer system in the US be akin to CFR‘s (Commisioned from the Ranks) up here, where a long serving Senior NCO is elevated to a higher position. It‘s my experience that CFR‘s are not as prevelant in the US and here and the end result is often similar. Many CFR‘s often find themselves in specialist or technical positions (QM etc.)


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## Danjanou (5 Nov 2003)

Thanks Sherwood, I though it sounded like a plausible theory. Look at the Brits from whom much of our military traditions et all come from. There, at least going way back, CFR Officers were the exception rather than the rule. 

Such individuals were not seen as "Gentlemen" and therefore by default found themselves in administrative or support (read specialist) roles such as QM etc. This may have actually been a good fit for some long serving Sgt. or WO who of course in twenty odd years service learned every dirty little trick about making a QM or BOR or Finance office or whatever run smoothly.

Even in more recent times with the loosening of the class structure in the UK one stills sees a preponderance of CFR‘s in such positions as opposed to "command" (ie Company/Squadron OC)roles.

Anyway just my two cents worth. Didn‘t mean to hi-jack the thread.


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## sinblox (5 Nov 2003)

Would someone explain the specialist (SPC) rank in the US army?


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Nov 2003)

Quote:
Incorrect....I know what it means...take off you hoser, hows it goin eh?  ...Americans wear knit caps, we don‘t wear anything french 

Ummm don‘t you guys wear berets?


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## nexxyboi (11 Nov 2003)

I‘ve noticed that about 60% of what you‘ve all posted on here is bull****.
I‘ve only skimmed through. I will answer one question though. 

In the US Army, a pay grade of E-4 can either be a Corporal (CPL) or Specialist (SPC). 
Differences:
-CPL mainly in combat MOS.. SPC usually for rest
-CPL is NCO, SPC is not
-Personnel with 4 year degrees can enlist as SPCs

Usually, most will go up ranks as specialists then go straight up to E-5 Sergeant (SGT).

Some tracks do not have NCOs for the most part (i.e. musicians) and so it is common to have SPCs with pay grade above E-4, such as SPC-7 (which would normally correspond to a senior NCO, Sergeant First Class (or SFC)). It‘s complicated. LOL


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## nexxyboi (11 Nov 2003)

"The Wo ranks in the States are used to employ personnel 
into specialist positions that would normally require a 
commission to occupy. For example, pilots are often WOs. 
They‘re outside the normal career progression, you won‘t 
make Wing Commander as a WO, but you‘ll fly."

Also only partially true. The AF does not have WO ranks, and all the pilots in the USAF are officers. 90% of pilots in the US Army are Warrant Officers, and they are all helicopter pilots. The Army has very few fixed wing aircraft. Navy, all pilots are officers as well.


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## nexxyboi (11 Nov 2003)

Oh, and lemme tell you, MREs are lies on both counts.

Hardly meals and they‘re never ready to eat. LOL. They contain a chemical heater pack. Add water and a chemical exothermic reaction takes place and burns everything up. The "Meals" are edible without being heated, but either way they‘re not particularly good and can hardly be considered meals. The vegitarian meals always have the good desserts though.


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## nexxyboi (11 Nov 2003)

I don‘t know where you heard the terms "outfits", but we use units over here too.


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Nov 2003)

> Whether or not they are all E-9, there are different names, insignia, and positions for each. Whereas a CWO is a CWO whether he‘s a CSM, RSM, Base SM, Brigade SM, or the SM of the Army or the CF.


Actually, you‘ll find the Canadian Forces CWO and a Brigade RSM have distinctive insignia - the brigade RSM has a crossed set of swords in addition to his coat of arms, and I believe the CF CWO has a maple leaf wreath around the coat of arms.  They are still graded as CWO but wear different insignia like their US counterparts.

Having trouble figuring out why Sherwood thinks a 5/4 ton truck would be called deuce and a half; this was a term used for the 2 - 1/2 ton truck (hence the name).  

Incidentally, the 1/4 ton truck was called a Peep, the 1/2 ton truck a Jeep and the 3/4 ton truck a Beep.   (The Willy‘s-Overland company lobbied in the press to get the 1/4 truck referred to as jeep, and eventually won out - though in the military itself, some units called it a Peep right throughout the war).


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Nov 2003)

It‘s also funny to see US soldiers swear up and down they would never use the term ‘clip‘ or ‘dog tags‘ - in common usage of course they do, just as Canada has soldiers who chew gum, put their hands in their pockets, or refer to Honour Guards.  If every soldier every had to memorize and use exclusively every bit of arcane trivia about his army and its standard nomenclature, he would get little else accomplished.

Funnilly enough, I have heard Canadians refer to magazines as "clips" and ID discs as "dogtags" and have used the latter myself in conversation with newly joined troops who probably wouldn‘t understand any other designation I put to them.

Hollywood is the great leveller; no use pretending it isn‘t.  

At any rate, we don‘t have Word Police in Canada, though perhaps it is a function of the Office of Homeland Security??


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## Jarnhamar (11 Nov 2003)

Michael to show our thanks we should teach the americans how to wear berets so it doesnt look like you can land a fighter plane on them


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## nexxyboi (11 Nov 2003)

Ha ha well at least we don‘t wear our service caps to make them look as if they‘re about to fall off.


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## toms3 (11 Nov 2003)

oh oh.....it is getting nasty


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## patrick666 (11 Nov 2003)

Atleast people like our army.


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## Slim (11 Nov 2003)

Stepping in to kidnap the discussion...
We ( Canada) now have the little chem heater pack for IMP‘s, which I quite like...just don‘t drink the water.Lol
I found out that Warrent Officers are, in fact, officers in the U.S. Army the hard way. The first time I went down there for training I spoke to one without cracking off a "high-five" and got dumped on for it! Must have missed the "WO‘s are commisioned" lecture.


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## Jarnhamar (11 Nov 2003)

Um, Actually you do.
??

I have a feeling in YOUR branch of "special" forces you take the short bus to work.


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## Paul Gagnon (11 Nov 2003)

> Americans use "Canteens", we use "waterbottles".


What the he11  are you smoking? Unless things have changed drastically in the last few years it was always reffered to as a canteen.


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## onecat (11 Nov 2003)

"Clips", "waterbottles" I think your spending too much time in the past.  No one in Canada calls them waterbottles.... Its been canteens since my dad‘s days.  And he was in the RCAF in early 60‘s.  

I would agree that Americans do need some advice on how to wear a berets.


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## henleykg (12 Nov 2003)

Americans DO wear chevrons. A "chevron" is made up of a given number of stripes and rockers.

i.e.- Staff Sergeant‘s chevrons, Corporal‘s chevrons.

Also the U.S. Army uses the "regiment" designation differently from the U.S. Marine Corps.
In the Corps, a regiment is made up of 3 Infantry Battalions. A Brigade is made up of 3 regiments but is only used in the designation of a Marine Amphibious Brigade. 

In the Corps, our Sergeants Major all hold the same title regardless of their billet with the acception of the Sgt. Maj. of the Marine Corps.

Also, whomever it was that said the U.S. Army does not wear anything French...yes you do...you wear Berets. I can proudly say that the USMC has never worn those nasty French contraptions.

As far as "clips" and "magazines". Yes, you will hear US servicemen use the term "clip". But when you do they will be making reference to a clip as it should be. Such as the M-1 Garand. It uses a clip and not a magazine. A clip holds rounds together and is automatically ejected after it is empty. A magazine is inserted into the bottom of a receiver and is removed by the operator when it is empty. I have never heard a US serviceman mix the two terms up, although civilians commonly confuse the term.


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## nexxyboi (12 Nov 2003)

> Um, Actually you do.
> ??
> 
> I have a feeling in YOUR branch of "special" forces you take the short bus to work.


I‘m talking about service CAPS, not berets. And I didn‘t quite get that weird Canadian expression...


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (12 Nov 2003)

Well, I dare you to tell someone wearing a maroon berret that he‘s wearing a fruity french hat on his head.  You‘ll end up in intensive care or better yet, in a casket.


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## McInnes (12 Nov 2003)

nasty french contraption? exactly what is so nasty about a beret?


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## toms3 (12 Nov 2003)

I believe hostilities are about to break out.  Personally, I really don‘t care much for this thread; at first I thought it was funny, now you can see it is changing.

I think the value of an army are in it soldiers.  Canteen, clips, beret,.....who cares, call it what you want.   What matters in the end is the person in the trench next to you regardless if he or she is American or Canadian.


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## Jarnhamar (12 Nov 2003)

Duck and run digger   

Nexxiboi, In the Canadian Army we wear Berets and bush hats (or wide brim combat hat whatever you wanna call it). Not service hats so your attempt at a joke is screwed up from the get go.

I doubt you WOULD get that expression, ignorance is bliss eh rain man?

Good dig Baker   
Just curious though, why do you have a low regard for france? Please tell me it‘s not simply because they did not support your countries war against iraq.


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## onecat (12 Nov 2003)

"CDN Actress in a make-believe movie " sorry Baker have no idea where you coming from.  I based on opinion on beret form, from how I‘ve seen US troop wear them in the news media.  And it was more of joke because we all know Canadians are the masters of beret.    

But like Ghost asked I would like to know why you have a hate on for France.


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## jrhume (12 Nov 2003)

I can add a little info to the discussions about berets or clips vs magazines.  As far as I can recall, only SF types wore berets when I was in (1965-68).  They didn‘t look effeminate.  LOL

"Clips" and "magazines".  We had both.  Our M-16s had 20-round magazines which one filled using stripper clips.  The M-1 was out of service at the time, except maybe in Guard units.  None of us had any experience with Garand clips.  I have heard soldiers call magazines by either name and it confused no one.  It‘s not a biggie.

As for ranks, here is the official US Army take on specialist ranks.  In 1958, the ranks E-8 and E-9 were created, along with Specialist ranks paralleling regular ranks (hard stripes) from E-4 to E-9.  In 1965, SP8 and SP9 were discontinued.  In 1978, SP7 went away.  In 1985, SP5 and SP6 were discontinued.  SP4 remains in use as a non-NCO alternative to Corporal.

The Specialist grades were never very useful except in highly . . . uh . . . specialized jobs.  I was an SP5, Air Traffic Controller, but I commanded a detachment of 5 controllers for some months in Vietnam.  That was really a sergeant‘s job.  Mostly, we paid no attention to strict protocol.  I was an SP5 NCO performing the duties equivalent to regular rank.  If there had been an NCO club at Dong Tam or Vinh Long, I could have gone there.  So what?  

I imagine various grades of Specialists existed long after the dates given above.  The Army usually authorized the wearing of old rank insignia until a soldier‘s next promotion.  All the rank info is available on the Army‘s perscom site.

Jim


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## Jarnhamar (13 Nov 2003)

Won‘t even grace us with an answer? Why does an american major does not like the french? I have to assume it‘s either because a. they would not go to war with you guys or b. you‘ve had a bad, first hand,  experience working with them in the past and you draw your opinion from that. I know which answer this little technician (as you so love to mention) would consider a real soldiers answer, im just curious where your reasons fall. After all, this is a message board and your about as shy as a working girl when a navy ship comes into port when it comes to posting your opinion and asking questions about canada, why not man up?


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## Jarnhamar (13 Nov 2003)

Why am i curious? Well your an educated man. By your own addmission you‘ve seen a lot and been around. You have more time in than me and your privvy to higher circle debates and arguments.  I‘m curious why someone in your station would dislike france. I‘m sure your reasons are valid ones i‘m not intending to argue that they are not. Like i said, i‘m simply curious about why.

Given there is much about your country and some of your army that i do not like, just as there is my own country and army. For every insult you‘ve felt i‘ve directed at your home and job i‘ve likely fired off 3 at my own. Mayhaps you just choose to only remember what i say towards the US.  Peoplemay be concerned that some of your posts have you bashing canada and like wise me the states but i seem them as simple matters of opinion. Honest ones at that, even if people don‘t always like it. Which soldier here cannot truely say they appriciate honesty and having a spade called a spade?


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## toms3 (13 Nov 2003)

Ghost

Honest Opinion??!??  Think about what you just said to explain your way of expressing yourself.  You cannot call a "spade a spade" based on an opinion.  That requires a "truth".  Opinions are only one persons perception of truth.  Actually, with all due respect, I consider some of your posts to be "button Pushers"  that are meant to create interesting debate (sometimes).

There you go....my opinion


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## Jarnhamar (13 Nov 2003)

The call a spade a spade comment stems from us soldiers being able to say exactly what we want to say without having to be politically correct. I may be mad at the US for always doing whatever and an american soldier may be pissed off at canada for having a weak army or whatever. Thats what i ment by a spade being a spade.  I do try and make my posts button pushers, especially when the other person is trying to push my buttons. Your comment about that isn‘t disrespectful at all.   I prefer arguments with people about topics like that opposed to which is my favorite IMP or what gun do i think is coolest. Just opinion.


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## toms3 (13 Nov 2003)

I have actually noticed more and more "gamer" and "airsoft" type threads starting.  Not to say there is anything wrong with it, but they should be kept in the "offtopic" area.

Oh.....Salmon


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## Duotone81 (20 Nov 2003)

> your about as shy as a working girl when a navy ship comes into port


Ghost, dude that was fookin hilarious. You do owe me an Alexander Keith‘s because I couldn‘t keep it in after i read that and it was my last one.   :crybaby:


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## LieutenantHoward (14 Mar 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Duck and run digger
> 
> Nexxiboi, In the Canadian Army we wear Berets and bush hats (or wide brim combat hat whatever you wanna call it). Not service hats so your attempt at a joke is screwed up from the get go.
> 
> ...


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## Command-Sense-Act 105 (14 Mar 2008)

You do realize you replied to a 5 year old thread, don't you?  I think this argument has been over for a while.

*The Army.ca staff*


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## Sigger (11 Apr 2008)

A good read nontheless


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