# Help identifying a reflex sight



## Jarnhamar (23 Jul 2008)

Can someone help me identify what type of sight this is (or one reasonably like it) found mounting on top this Elcan  DR?












For some reason I have the name Tricom stuck in my head but I haven't found anything named as such.
I'd like to pick up one of the little guys up.

Thanks


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## COBRA-6 (23 Jul 2008)

Looks like a Docter Optic.

Can also be mounted on the Trijicon ACOG sights...


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## OldSolduer (23 Jul 2008)

OK guys, being a "dinosaur" what does that sight do? I need to know........thanks!


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## RCR Grunt (23 Jul 2008)

Well, I can't see the picture, but I can tell you what a good reflex sight is supposed to do.

It is supposed to be quicker to use in CQB situations.  It allows you to fire with both eyes open.  It has little or no parrallax and does not require you to take up a "proper" sight picture.  Just put the dot on what you want to die and squeeze rounds till it drops.  You still have to zero it though.

If it is the one I'm thinking of, like COBRA-6 says it is, it is the little fella that can be mounted on top of an ACOG.  That would give you the ability to do snap shoots in CQB using the reflex sight and also engage at distance using the ACOG.  Nifty.


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## OldSolduer (23 Jul 2008)

Thanks very much!!!


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## Jarnhamar (23 Jul 2008)

Are they expensive?


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## COBRA-6 (23 Jul 2008)

Fixed the hyperlink...


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## KevinB (23 Jul 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Are they expensive?


about $500 Cdn.


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## HItorMiss (23 Jul 2008)

Yeah it's a Doctor Optical I am like 95% sure anyway. I would have to have access to work to say 100% sure.


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## KevinB (24 Jul 2008)

It is a Dr Optic -- its part and parcel of the SOPMOD Block II sights (ACOG and Spectre DR)


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## HItorMiss (24 Jul 2008)

There you have it we all agree, it's a Doc Opt. I have heard good things ref this sight as well.


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## Jarnhamar (24 Jul 2008)

Good call on the Dr Optic.

$500 sight on a $2000 sight, that's pretty pricey heh

Infidel6, would one of those be fairly easy to mount yourself or would someone need a gunsmith?


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## KevinB (24 Jul 2008)

You need the USSOC version of the sight -- and then it screws right in.


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## brihard (27 Jul 2008)

Flawed- good luck getting it on one of the issued Elcans.

PM inbound.


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## Fusaki (28 Jul 2008)

I don't get it.

A quick google of the ELCAN Spectre DR has informed me that this particular sight can switch from 1x to 4x by a simple throw lever. I get that part - variable magnification seems to be the way of the future of AR sights.

By why throw a Dr. Optic on it? Isn't a 1x CCO redundant on this particular sight?

http://www.elcan.com/ELCAN_Business_Areas/Sighting_Systems/Products/Day_Sights/SpecterDR.php


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## HItorMiss (28 Jul 2008)

The DR is not a reflex sight, the Doc Op is a fast sight used for CQB type engagements, whereas the DR though even a variable 1-4x is a good sight it takes time and proper eye relife to aquire the sight picture for a CQB engament. You get where I am going with that?


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## KevinB (28 Jul 2008)

Reflex sight is a term used for open window CCO's.

Actually the Dr O was added sicne the Spectre sufferes from horrible zero shift when flipped from 1-4x and back.  Nice when the unit is new then like all Elcan products the thing shits the bed, and as such they leave the system on 4x and use the DR O -- which of course means your carrying a heavy hunk of junk for no reason.  If the 1x red dot worked as well as advertised it would be a great sight.
  
 The scope is crap. Or well I I guess I should say it is surpased by other sights - the NigthForce 1-4 and the S&B ShortDot in that family, and practically as well by the TA31DOC.

The concept is ideal -- however the execution has not made up for it.

The problem you get with adding a piggy back sight (and I have tried this on the ACOG series after witnessing the FBI HRT and some other unit try this with the early TA01NSN ACOG's - is that ypu get two different cheekwelds - and under stress your muscle memory will kick you to one -- not the other - usually the 4x glass rather than the 1x CCO.

Did I mention I prefer the Short Dot...


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## Fusaki (28 Jul 2008)

I get where you're going with that.

I just seems like the benefits - not having to worry about parralax or eye relief - don't justify the downsides - training your muscle memory to choose between a high riding Dr Optic or your regular sight. Getting used to two different head positions might be worthwhile if you're using a Dr Optic with a fixed magnification ACOG, but is it really necessary with a Spectre DR or an S&B shortdot? If you've decided that you want a Dr Optic, then why bother with a variable magnification scope anyways? When would you use the 1x setting on the DR when you have your Dr Optic doing the close in work?

Like I said, it seems redundant.

***EDIT***

_Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post._


Thanks I-6


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## Karl87 (9 Aug 2008)

I've heard they use the doctor sight alongside the spectreDR because it loses zero between switching from 1x-4x, so they keep the spectre on 4x and use the reflex for short distance shooting.


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## brihard (9 Aug 2008)

Karl87 said:
			
		

> I've heard they use the doctor sight alongside the spectreDR because it loses zero between switching from 1x-4x, so they keep the spectre on 4x and use the reflex for short distance shooting.



Care to tell us where you heard that? 'I heard' is nothing much to go on.

It would be helpful if you'd fill out your profile a bit too. Such contributions are useless if we don't know who's making them. We don't need name, rank, service number, but a look at a few people's profiles will give you an idea of what's expected. An idea of a person's background is very useful in judging the merit of their opinions- that's what keeps this place running so smoothly, and what keeps it useful to those of us still on the low end of the 'time in' scale. Thanks.


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## Karl87 (9 Aug 2008)

I have gotten my information from various "User Reviews" on firearms sites, I'm not some person who posts to feel special about himself  before he goes to bed so you can drop it. And I'll fill in my profile as you requested.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Aug 2008)

Karl dude, put your guns away 

Anyone just showing up to a message forum needs to establish their credibility. 'I heard' comments can cause all kinds of crazy spin offs. Other times they could be bang on. You're new here so don't get defensive if other posters put a little pressure on you or test the waters. It's one way we figure out who the serious guys are and who the clowns are, cool?

The sight DID have apparently this major problem with loosing the zero when shifting between 4 power and 1 power. A fellow in my platoon who used to work at elcan and build these sights said they completely redesigned the guts of it and fixed the loss of zero problem.


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## Franko (10 Aug 2008)

Karl87 said:
			
		

> I have gotten my information from various "User Reviews" on firearms sites, *I'm not some person who posts to feel special about himself  before he goes to bed so you can drop it.* And I'll fill in my profile as you requested.



Drop the attitude. It adds nothing to the thread whatsoever.

*The Army.ca Staff*


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## KevinB (10 Aug 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> The sight DID have apparently this major problem with loosing the zero when shifting between 4 power and 1 power. A fellow in my platoon who used to work at elcan and build these sights said they completely redesigned the guts of it and fixed the loss of zero problem.


Well dude - ELCAN can claim all they want.  USSOC toss them in the trash - because even their Rev6 2008 model still sucks ass.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Aug 2008)

I thought I read USSOC canned their order due to the mentioned issues with dropping the zero from 4x to 1x which then caused Elcan to revisit the design for 2008. By that time USSOC wasn't interested in re-initiating their order however the sight had it's zero dropping issue's fixed?


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## KevinB (10 Aug 2008)

Still being foisted on people by that Command -- still not being used...


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## Fusaki (11 Aug 2008)

I still think it's a little weird that Elcan would actually _build_ the sight with a spot to mount the Dr Optic.

If they had _intended_ the SpectreDR to be a good 1x-4x sight, why would they even bother to machine a spot to mount the Dr Optic on it? It's almost like they knew the 1x setting wasn't very good, so they engineered it to have a Dr as well. But if you're going to have a Dr as well, whats the point of having variable magnification scope in the first place?

 ??? ???


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## HItorMiss (12 Aug 2008)

Backup, secondar, redundancy etc etc etc

Always plan for something to fail and have an alternate available


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## brihard (12 Aug 2008)

Karl87 said:
			
		

> I have gotten my information from various "User Reviews" on firearms sites, I'm not some person who posts to feel special about himself  before he goes to bed so you can drop it. And I'll fill in my profile as you requested.



Simmer. When I do or say something unreasonable, then you can call me out. You'll learn in time that that is just how this site works; the value of this site is compeltely dependent on the credibility and backgrounds of its members. Don't assume it was anything personal; someone would have asked you if I had not.


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## Fusaki (13 Aug 2008)

> Backup, secondar, redundancy etc etc etc
> 
> Always plan for something to fail and have an alternate available



I don't buy it.

Other scopes that are known to be high end pieces of kit don't have that kind of redundancy. ACOGs, Aimpoints, EOTechs, and I-6's favorite S&B Short Dots are all expected to work right - all the time. If they don't, thats why your have back up irons.

I know the phrase "Two is one, one is none", but that applies withing reasonable limits. No one wears two ballistic  plates front and two plates back. The weight gets to be too much and the end user just _expects_ one set of quality plates to function as they were designed. The same is with scopes. Why carry a Dr Optic on top of a SpectreDR just in case the Spectre fails? Are sights like that prone to failure? I should hope not. 

But for ELCAN to machine a spot on top of the Spectre to mount a DR Optic tells me that they expect the 1x setting to not work very well, so they have to ship the end product with the option to mount an alternative.


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## RCR Grunt (13 Aug 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> I don't buy it.
> 
> Other scopes that are known to be high end pieces of kit don't have that kind of redundancy. *ACOGs*, ...



ACOG w/ Doctor Optic

Looks like Trijicon sells a model of their ACOG with a Doctor Optic slapped on top.  Does that mean the ACOG is prone to failure?  I don't know, I've never used one, but I also haven't heard anyone calling them garbage either.  I think there is demand in the market for this combination simply for what Bullet Magnet said, redundancy.  So, if 2 is 1, and 1 is none, then 3 (ACOG + Dr. Optic + BUIS) must be 2, and there is your redundancy.  Besides, chicks dig reflex sights on top of other sights.


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## KevinB (13 Aug 2008)

The Dr on top came out of the fact that the majority of uses have a zero shift when using the ACOG's in the CQB BAC mode - its due to the way the eye sees the illuminated image -- hence they went the DR ontop method -- it was all part of a weird USSOC desire -- and folks who did not understand muscle memory with a sighting unit -- yes it work - but its not ideal.

Redundancy is not part of the issue here at all with either scope.


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## Fusaki (13 Aug 2008)

> ACOG w/ Doctor Optic
> 
> Looks like Trijicon sells a model of their ACOG with a Doctor Optic slapped on top.  Does that mean the ACOG is prone to failure?  I don't know, I've never used one, but I also haven't heard anyone calling them garbage either.  I think there is demand in the market for this combination simply for what Bullet Magnet said, redundancy.  So, if 2 is 1, and 1 is none, then 3 (ACOG + Dr. Optic + BUIS) must be 2, and there is your redundancy.  Besides, chicks dig reflex sights on top of other sights.



Thats not where I'm going with this. There is a big difference between putting a Dr Optic on top of a 4x ACOG and putting a Dr Optic on top of a 1x-4x SpectreDR.

Although I-6 has pointed out that the ACOG+Dr Optic set up is not ideal, I can see why some think its a good idea. You have your 4x ACOG for distances and the Dr Optic for CQB. There is no redundancy.

A SpectreDR on the other hand is variable magnification, switching from 1x to 4x by a throw lever. To me, putting a Dr Optic on top of a scope that already does 1x does not make any sense. It's redundant, and I don't see why ELCAN would design the SpectreDR with a spot to mount the Dr Optic. It reads to me like ELCAN has essentially admitted that the 1x setting on the Spectre just doesn't cut it, so they needed to throw the Dr on there as an alternative. But if you're going to do that, it defeats the purpose of having a variable magnification scope in the first place, so you'd might as well go with an ACOG instead.

Seen?


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## HItorMiss (13 Aug 2008)

I am tracking Wonderbreab....

I'll point out one thing though, just because one picture seems/does have a mount on the SpectreDR does not an SOP make roger?

PM inbound BTW.


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## Good2Golf (14 Aug 2008)

Karl87 said:
			
		

> I've heard they use the doctor sight alongside the spectreDR because it loses zero between switching from 1x-4x, so they keep the spectre on 4x and use the reflex for short distance shooting.



Cool...déjà vu! 

Pretending that this little gem above was never posted, I-6 having mentioned the same thing precisely two posts earlier is enough for me.  

I'll take working with I-6 in the flesh (well drinking, anyway) over an "I've heard..." any day.

G2G


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## KevinB (14 Aug 2008)

BulletMagnet -- the USSOC MD/NS was competed and a split award given to Elcan and ACOG -- both of those versions have a Dr Optic on top --- with Trijicon being the new North American supplier for Dokter.

 As for other people who buy the Spectre Dr - I am not sure.  My guess is Elcan is trying to slough most of the intial rejected versions off to the public and others who will buy them.


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