# LSVW CP



## MedCorps (6 Apr 2016)

I am having a brain fart and looking for a sig to sort me out... 

Does a LSVW CP:

1) always tow a generator trailer 
2) the generator carried in the CP and then dismounted

Finally, can the LSVW CP run off vehicle power when running? 

Thx 

MC


----------



## PuckChaser (6 Apr 2016)

1) Not always, but it should have one as part of the det. Only time I haven't seen one is when its a part of a CP complex, and someone else is bringing power.
2) That is a COA for small out dets, 2kW gas generator hand carried.
3) Yes, all the radios work from truck power.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (6 Apr 2016)

MedCorps said:
			
		

> I am having a brain fart and looking for a sig to sort me out...
> 
> Does a LSVW CP:
> 
> ...



1) Not always, but the norm is for a 5-10 KW trailer mounted TQG to be the power source
2) Absolutely can. I've seem some dets that prefer to use a 5KW civilian style generator

For a short time yes. It's not something you want to depend on as the truck is not designed to run at idle indefinitely. If you are setting up a CP for more than, for instance, an hour, you'll want a generator.

It will depend on your CP's power requirements too. Are you running just the inside of the truck pod, or are you expected to power a tent full of officers, laptops and coffee pots as well? Keep in mind 5KW or 10KW sounds like a lot of power, but if you're using regular household outlets they only offer up ~1800W (120v x 15A). To get the full output of the generator you'll want a proper distribution system. We often used a "Hubble" distribution system.
Your local EGS Techs should be able to provide this, or give you answers on where to get it.


----------



## Ludoc (6 Apr 2016)

MedCorps said:
			
		

> Finally, can the LSVW CP run off vehicle power when running?


Yes but IOT have enough power to properly run the radios the truck needs to be in high idle. It is not great for the truck to remain in high idle for long periods of time.

I would never rely on an LSVW's batteries to last long enough to power your radios for any thing but the shortest period of time.


----------



## MedCorps (6 Apr 2016)

Thanks guys... jogged my memory.  

MC


----------



## MedCorps (6 Apr 2016)

One other question... now that you have me thinking about it... 

The few (1/2/3) sections of mod tent you see hanging off the back of the LSVW CP when set up... is that carried inside the CP when on the move or on top? Or is it in another vehicle?  

I have never seen the A-Frames and purloins now that I think about it when on the move. 

Cheers, 

MC


----------



## PuckChaser (6 Apr 2016)

If doesn't quite look like standard mod, its a penthouse and is stored on the roof. If its a small CP of 3 sections of mod, I usually split it between genny trailer and LSVW pod.


----------



## chrisf (7 Apr 2016)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> To get the full output of the generator you'll want a proper distribution system. We often used a "Hubble" distribution system.
> Your local EGS Techs should be able to provide this, or give you answers on where to get it.



Stop calling it a god damned Hubble.

The manufacturer is "hubbell" and that's not the name of the product, it's actually a "spider box", it comes in two versions, a yellow "civilian version", and a green "military version" and all it is is an exceptionally large power bar.

The only difference between the two was the green version came with a "milspec" connector to accept the supply from the generator but it wasn't compatible with any of the other power connectors we had on hand and we still need another cable to fit the stupid thing.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (7 Apr 2016)

It's a lot more than a power bar.

Running a "power bar" from the convience outlets gives you 120v 15A. Taking the power from the leads (which is what the connector for the power distribution system does) gives you more of the output of the generator. If you didn't know this then you've probably had a lot of power problems in your career.

And if this is the first time you experienced a person refer to something by the manufacturer I'd like to welcome you out from under your rock.


----------



## dapaterson (7 Apr 2016)

Give him a xerox of the manual, and a kleenex to blow his nose.


----------



## chrisf (7 Apr 2016)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> It's a lot more than a power bar.
> 
> Running a "power bar" from the convience outlets gives you 120v 15A. Taking the power from the leads (which is what the connector for the power distribution system does) gives you more of the output of the generator. If you didn't know this then you've probably had a lot of power problems in your career.
> 
> And if this is the first time you experienced a person refer to something by the manufacturer I'd like to welcome you out from under your rock.



It's still what amounts to a power bar, just a large power bar, with access to more power.

Folks got it into their heads that it was some mystical piece of equipment, unless you're running a generator larger than a 5kw, it doesn't provide much benefit, as it's still limited by your source power.

You'll also find it's helpful if you call the piece of equipment by it's actual name if you're suggesting someone goes looking for one, as they won't find anything called either a "Hubble" or for that matter a "hubbell", so I would kindly invite you to eat a dick.


----------



## George Wallace (7 Apr 2016)

NO need to pull this out:







Now 

Be nice.


----------



## chrisf (7 Apr 2016)

MedCorps said:
			
		

> One other question... now that you have me thinking about it...
> 
> The few (1/2/3) sections of mod tent you see hanging off the back of the LSVW CP when set up... is that carried inside the CP when on the move or on top? Or is it in another vehicle?
> 
> ...



If it's a "penthouse" which is sort of like mod but specifically designed to attach to the back of a cp vehicle, it can all be stored (poles and arches and canvas, everything) on the roof of the vehicle, with a bit of practice it all sits quite nice and flat, but pro-tip, fold, don't roll.


----------



## PuckChaser (7 Apr 2016)

If your unit doesn't have one, make sure you have an entitlement on your CFFET, or the Penthouse Gestapo will deny your request.


----------



## chrisf (7 Apr 2016)

Also there's a manual, or at least an instruction sheet for it. Should help with identifying parts.

I don't recall being able to find it on the din, but it definitely exists, I thought I had a copy in my email but it must have been my din email, which no longer exists.

I think it may have been posted here at one point it was only maybe one or two pages, and all the diagrams still featured the 5/4 pickups.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (7 Apr 2016)

Not a Sig Op said:
			
		

> It's still what amounts to a power bar, just a large power bar, with access to more power.
> 
> Folks got it into their heads that it was some mystical piece of equipment, unless you're running a generator larger than a 5kw, it doesn't provide much benefit, as it's still limited by your source power.
> 
> You'll also find it's helpful if you call the piece of equipment by it's actual name if you're suggesting someone goes looking for one, as they won't find anything called either a "Hubble" or for that matter a "hubbell", so I would kindly invite you to eat a dick.



Buds, a tea kettle uses 1100W, so plugging into the convience outlets is only giving your CP ~1800W. 

Now I'm just a simple operator with 16 years of experience, but last I checked 5000W is a lot better than 1800W when you're running a CP.


----------



## sidemount (7 Apr 2016)

If you start plugging a bunch of stuff into the convience plugs you are going to piss th EO techs off. Kettles blow the breaker on 5kw more often than not and people plug it in with more stuff. Its also a very good way to lose your power bar. Go see them and get them to construct a pannel or get set up with a spider box and do things properly. 

If you are running off of the lugs you have access to 41 amps at 120volts. Outlet is max 15 and may be breakered to less, cant remember ive been out of the game for a bit.
We can run quite a bit off of a 5kw gen. However a CP draws a fair bit. 
Also if you are running the cp off of veh power, make sure the high idle is turned up so the battery meter is in the green. Our lovely lsvw alternator will not charge batteries at low idle. 

If your unit doesnt have power distribution get them to LPO it.


----------



## PuckChaser (7 Apr 2016)

Pretty sure the convenience plugs are fused to 10 amp, can barely run a small kettle and a laptop.


----------



## sidemount (7 Apr 2016)

I think so...i have a 5kw manual here somewhere ill look later.

Either way its fairly easy to justify getting small power distribution for a cp...do that, have your eo guy connect it and just leave it with the gen.


I was never a fan of the 3am calls because the cp tripped a breaker making coffee off of that plug


----------



## chrisf (7 Apr 2016)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> Buds, a tea kettle uses 1100W, so plugging into the convience outlets is only giving your CP ~1800W.
> 
> Now I'm just a simple operator with 16 years of experience, but last I checked 5000W is a lot better than 1800W when you're running a CP.



I'm sure in that 16 years you noticed the large cable coming out of the generator connected to the truck?

With that connected, between the ac outlets inside the pod, plus the convenience receptacle on the trailer, you have access to all 5kw, so if you have a 5kw or smaller generator, the spider box doesn't provide any benefit.

It looks pretty and makes for a convenient place to plug things in, but zero benefit in power distribution.

If you find yourself with a 10kw tqg, then the spider box is beneficial.

If you're running one of the old green 2kw, you've got access to 100% of the power either via either the side mounted receptacles or the lugs for connecting a vehicle cable.

If you're running any sort of civilian generator between those amounts, they're typically designed such that you have access to 100% of the power from the side panel.

Best bet if you're running a smaller generator is looking at options to reduce power consumption.

Led lighting is relatively cheap and accessible now, either as screw bulbs or replacements for 4' fluorescents.

Dump any electric heat in favour of combustion where possible, if you can get a Herman Nelson or a dantherm
Heater use instead of the little ceramic heater.

If you're having that many kettle related issues, get a smaller kettle.


----------



## PuckChaser (7 Apr 2016)

I had Base EGS make 2 distribution systems for my unit for 10kW. 2 spider boxes, 2 box to vehicle cables, 10 115VAC cables, and a 50ft cable to run to the first spider box in the chain. Came to just under $10k per system, just needed some green paint to make the spider boxes tactical.

He had worked at Svc Bn before so knew what I was trying to describe. It's a COTS version of a CPDS.


----------



## sidemount (7 Apr 2016)

The spider box would be beneficial for running additional lighting in the cp penthouse or some nearby mod. Usually nice than trying to run an extension cord from the cp. 

But yes there absolutly should be a gen to truck cable... if not the gen is kind of useless as it wont power the radios


Agree 100% with fuel heating...electric heaters are power pigs!


----------



## chrisf (7 Apr 2016)

Just for clarity...

"Military" spider box.

http://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Wiring-Systems-6-Receptacles-Camouflage/dp/B00G7VVYEC

"Civilian spider box"

http://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Wiring-Systems-6-Receptacles-Camouflage/dp/B00IS2XFYU

If it's something you need to lpo, id recommend get the yellow version and a can of green spray paint as the "mil spec" power connector on the green version is different then the usual connectors found on the ac cables to connect to vehicles, and may be difficult to get, while the pin and sleeve connector may look odd, but should be fairly easy to buy.

If you've got access to professionals to assemble it for you, could put together a smaller home made version in the same style for maybe $600.


----------



## sidemount (7 Apr 2016)

These also exist with an NSN now......it was either hq and sigs or the engineers in Pet that had them.

But yes those are them and they are great. They can also interconnect with existing cpds with a slight mod


The connector on the civ style is a 20A twist lock with a 60A 3phase blue pin and sleve connector.


----------



## PuckChaser (7 Apr 2016)

They can be custom ordered with different colours (amps) for the connectors. Really handy pieces of kit, and a drop in the bucket at year end time when most people are buying red swingline staplers.


----------



## chrisf (7 Apr 2016)

Bare in mind, you're still limited by the size of the generator.

The spider boxes are also designed to be used with three phase, so you'll need to ensure your generator is wired/set up appropriately, not difficult with the tqg generators, may not be possible with civilian pattern generators.


----------



## chrisf (8 Apr 2016)

sidemount said:
			
		

> The connector on the civ style is a 20A twist lock with a 60A 3phase blue pin and sleve connector.



There's a couple of twist locks but most of the receptacles are the 20a straight blade t-slots.

There may be different versions, that's what I've seen, we (former unit) had one, and ive also used them in my civilian occupation.

It wouldn't hard to swap them out, it's just regular nema receptacles with a fancy flap over them.


----------



## sidemount (8 Apr 2016)

Yup you are right.

We actually pull a bunch of the innards out of them, change the pin and sleve input connector and put a nice carrying handle on them.

They will work on single phase....but 2 out the 6 outlets wont be powered....we played around with this a bit.


----------



## chrisf (8 Apr 2016)

sidemount said:
			
		

> They will work on single phase....but 2 out the 6 outlets wont be powered....we played around with this a bit.



2 outlets per phase, if you're running 120, you'll get two outlets, 120/240 you'll get 4, 120/208 you'll get six.

I only mention because the tqg's are selectable, and most users won't be aware of the difference, so they may well be set to 120 or 120/240.

If you've got a civilian pattern generator, it's not likely to be able to generate 3 phase.


----------



## sidemount (8 Apr 2016)

Yes that is true...i dont think ive ever seen a tqg set to just  120....seems pointless to me so i left that part out but yes it would only run 2 outlets.

120/240 is the norm for being connected to a cp. 

We usually run 3 phase for camp power distribution.
Actually our generators are civilian catapilliar and they are 3 phase.  They do exist but are much rarer.

We've gone on a bit of a tangent here but just for shits and giggles can you think of any kit that actually needs 3 phase power....I can only think of one and it gave me ton of problems overseas when the egs guy upgraded the power grid and swapped the lines that phase 1 and phase 2 were on and didnt say anything lol.


----------



## chrisf (8 Apr 2016)

sidemount said:
			
		

> Yes that is true...i dont think ive ever seen a tqg set to just  120....seems pointless to me so i left that part out but yes it would only run 2 outlets.



I've seen it, but only because the operator didn't know the difference, and only discovered it because four of the six outlets on the spider box didn't work.



> We usually run 3 phase for camp power distribution.
> Actually our generators are civilian catapilliar and they are 3 phase.  They do exist but are much rarer.



I only say "typically" in reference to a portable you'd find running a lsvw sized cp, if you've got something larger I'm assuming you've got an egs tech along for the ride.

I have a severe hate for cat engines.

They're reliable and parts are easy to get, but I hope they give you guys a better manual then they give the rest of the world where they try to cover 30 different models in the one book, and nothing in the book looks like what you actually have.



> We've gone on a bit of a tangent here but just for shits and giggles can you think of any kit that actually needs 3 phase power....I can only think of one and it gave me ton of problems overseas when the egs guy upgraded the power grid and swapped the lines that phase 1 and phase 2 were on and didnt say anything lol.



Honestly the only piece of army kit I've ever seen that uses or makes use of 3 phase power is the spider box, which brings us back nicely from the tangent to the point where I said it isn't really beneficial unless you're running a generator larger than 5kw.


----------



## sidemount (8 Apr 2016)

I didnt even say the name of the piece of kit lol. It was the PSS, the aerial vehicle had a 3 phase input and alarms scream when it was wrong.

I can see what you mean for a 3 phase civy gen for a cp that would be much harder to find. The cats we were using are all 30kw. We try and run an entire camp off that, including the cp, and have the 5kw as a backup. Generators run best at an 80ish% load, less than 50 and they tend to wet stack.

And what is this manual thing you speak of. In all honesty we resorted to online forums and google to get part numbers for those things....i guess may e cat was not keen on giving us maint manuals for their civy stuff, I don't know

Just so ya know, the general rule we run by is EO/Veh tech look after 30kw and below and egs take care of the big jobbies.
Obviously lots of overlap there depending on where you are at


----------



## chrisf (8 Apr 2016)

sidemount said:
			
		

> And what is this manual thing you speak of. In all honesty we resorted to online forums and google to get part numbers for those things....i guess may e cat was not keen on giving us maint manuals for their civy stuff, I don't know



If you know what's broken, they're not terrible, call a dealership and give them the serial number off the engine they can usually help you out.

I always found figuring out what was broken was the hard part... They give you a terribly generic manual.

They're surprisingly accommodating though, if you've got the model of the engine, shouldn't be hard to get a copy of the terribly generic manual, just as,  they should email it to you, don't expect much useful information in it though


----------



## sidemount (8 Apr 2016)

Not a Sig Op said:
			
		

> If you know what's broken, they're not terrible, call a dealership and give them the serial number off the engine they can usually help you out.
> 
> I always found figuring out what was broken was the hard part... They give you a terribly generic manual.
> 
> They're surprisingly accommodating though, if you've got the model of the engine, shouldn't be hard to get a copy of the terribly generic manual, just as,  they should email it to you, *don't expect much useful information in it though*



So what you are saying is they are very Army like... ;D


----------

