# hackles and toories



## meg (26 Mar 2006)

I (finally) bought a hackle and toorie (sp?) for my glengarry yesterday, and now need to attach them.  The toorie I think I can handle, but is there a 'proper' way to attach a hackle?  Bear in mind, I'm a civvie, and this is not military issued kit, so I'm kind of on my own here.  

Thanks for the help.


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## Pte_Martin (26 Mar 2006)

someone correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure a gleangarry doesn't have a hackle


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## Fishbone Jones (26 Mar 2006)

I'm sure Michael Dorosh will be along shortly. He's likely the best one to answer your question, or you could PM/ email him if you're in a hurry.


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## BKells (26 Mar 2006)

I'm in a highland regiment and, no, we don't wear a hackle with our glen. We wear the hackle with our balmoral, and it is attached just by sliding it in behind the cap badge and in front of the tartan patch. It stays in tight.

It is spelled "torrie".


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## Fraser.g (26 Mar 2006)

Neither regiment I belonged to wore the Hackle with the Glen. However, with a google search I confermend that some do.
The Hackle is affixed to both the glen and balmoral the same way. 
At the base of the hackle is a wire frame. This is placed in proper positing between the cap badge and the tarten patch if worn. The Cap badge pin is then pushed through the two eyelets on the back of the badge once it has been placed through the material of the Balmoral. 
At least that is how mine was affixed when I was with the CH of O and C Scot R. 
If your badge only has a single tine on the back to fix it to the head dress I would suggest stitching it permanently in place with the wire frame.

I am sure Michael can add to this. Good luck

GF


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## meg (26 Mar 2006)

Thanks for the help guys.  I'm not in the army, so I wasn't so worried about dealing with the hat badge.  I figured stitching would be the best idea, but wanted to make sure there wasn't some secret, ultra-efficient way of doin it.  I'll get to stitchin' tonight.


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## Danjanou (26 Mar 2006)

Meg as you don't have a regimental or unit capbadge, perhaps a Clan or Sept badge could be used as noted in the above posts.


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## Fraser.g (26 Mar 2006)

Good advise from Danjanou above. Please don't just pick up a cool looking badge and place it on your head dress! In the highland tradtion. like the military, that badge denotes affiliation and not just decoration.


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## davidk (26 Mar 2006)

In the Black Watch (RHR) we wear the red hackle with our Tam O'Shanter (with combats) and balmoral (CFs). Most of us just safety-pin the wire frame to the inside of the headdress, since we don't wear a capbadge with it to hold it in place.


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## Michael Dorosh (27 Mar 2006)

Someone rang?

The toorie gets sewn on with a bit of thread; the hackle just gets tucked in behind the cap badge and is held in place by the badge attachment.  As indicated, the use of military cap badges on civilian clothing is considered poor taste, unless you are a veteran who served with the unit in question.

Civvie pipe bands do wear hackles, gents, as of course do the RHF of C, both regiments of Camerons, and I think the Lorne Scots - as will the new Super Regiment in Scotland.

Oh, and it is equally tacky to wear a glengarry without a badge. As indicated, get a nice clan badge, but if you don't play in a pipe band, a glengarry normally isn't considered "female" dress if you are talking about Highland formal or even Highland casual.


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## Michael Dorosh (27 Mar 2006)

BKells said:
			
		

> It is spelled "torrie".



On which planet would that be? ???


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## davidk (27 Mar 2006)

RN PRN said:
			
		

> Good advise from Danjanou above. Please don't just pick up a cool looking badge and place it on your head dress! In the highland tradtion. like the military, that badge denotes affiliation and not just decoration.



...which brings up an interesting question that no one at my regiment has yet been able to answer. Why is it that the Black Watch is the only unit that wears no capbadge? We have our red hackle, and the band wears the hackle _and_ badge with the feather bonnet, but soldiers never do...

Pte Pinky? Michael Dorosh? Any answers?


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## Kirkhill (27 Mar 2006)

Alternative spelling of toorie = tourie.

And if I remember my clan manners correctly make sure you buy a clan badge encircled with a belt - unless you are a clan chief or chieftain.  The rest of us are bounden peasantry   and the belt is supposed to remind us of the fact. ;D

Cheers.


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## davidk (27 Mar 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> The story is that they had it taken away due to members of the regiment doing some sort of dishonorable deed during a long-ago battle. But thats all it is right now, a story.
> 
> Anyone have any facts? I'm rather interested in this story as well.



Don't put too much faith in stories like that. The CF is full of pseudohistorians explaining away things like the primrose hackle symbolizing cowardice, the RCR sash as a dishonour, and so on and so forth. 

Personally my thinking was that the Imperial Black Watch (originally the 42nd Regt of Foot) had earned the Red Hackle before their unit cap badge was even created, and the men in the 13th Battalion 1st Div CEF in WW1 simply traded in their badges for hackles after the Imperial RHR gave them permission to wear it.

Any other ideas?


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## Michael Dorosh (27 Mar 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> The story is that they had it taken away due to members of the regiment doing some sort of dishonorable deed during a long-ago battle. But thats all it is right now, a story.
> 
> Anyone have any facts? I'm rather interested in this story as well.



Not even close.

The Red Hackle is explained at my site, though the origins are rather imprecise.

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/mediawiki-1.5.5/index.php?title=Red_Hackle

One story has the regiment dipping white feathers in the blood of their enemies.  

Why on earth would anyone wear a "dishonour" on their uniform, though? We read the same story regarding the artillery lanyard, but that was never supported by anyone.  Another story has the notch in the Black Watch spats also being a dishonour, but again, no evidence is ever presented.


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## davidk (27 Mar 2006)

Very nice site, Mr Dorosh, but it doesn't say why we don't wear a capbadge _with_ the hackle.


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## Michael Dorosh (27 Mar 2006)

Pte D. Krystal said:
			
		

> Very nice site, Mr Dorosh, but it doesn't say why we don't wear a capbadge _with_ the hackle.



Apparently, the red hackle was thought to be sufficiently distinctive that no other accoutrement on the headdress was necessary.  There are photos of Canadian Black Watch officers wearing a glengarry badge, though - I think the hackle was generally worn on the tam, balmoral or feather bonnet.

The distinctiveness has been lost, incidentally, since some Police pipe bands who wear full dress and the tartan associated with police bands - Prince Charles Edward Stewart tartan - have adopted a red hackle as well.  Calgary Police Service Pipe Band is one, IIRC.  So much for an honour.  Like the way the entire Army co-opted camouflage "smocks" and high top boots from the Airborne by foisting a poor substitute on the rest of the Army in the form of Garrison Dress.


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## ouyin2000 (27 Mar 2006)

Pte D. Krystal said:
			
		

> Very nice site, Mr Dorosh, but it doesn't say why we don't wear a capbadge _with_ the hackle.





			
				Piper said:
			
		

> I was referring to them not wearing the cap badge.
> 
> But very interesting stuff nonetheless.


How could you both have missed this?

"The red hackle was first officially issued out on a parade at Royston in 1795. An Army Order of 1822 made the red hackle the official badge of the Black Watch, who have the distinction of wearing the hackle without a cap badge."


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## davidk (27 Mar 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Apparently, the red hackle was thought to be sufficiently distinctive that no other accoutrement on the headdress was necessary.  There are photos of Canadian Black Watch officers wearing a glengarry badge, though - I think the hackle was generally worn on the tam, balmoral or feather bonnet.



The badge is worn with the glengarry, though that headdress is only worn by officers with mess dress, and the band when in CFs.


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