# Question about the small pack system



## mr.rhtuner (20 Mar 2008)

Hey guys, I'm not sure if this is the right section to post this in or not, but I'm just wondering if all infantry or engineer regiments get the Small Pack System(SPS)?

reason I ask is because when I was with 31CER back in '04, we only had the webbing and the rucksack, so the SPS is new to me.  I am planning on going into 4RCR and was wondering if that's a new piece of kit they are using as I'd like to check it out and I personally think it's much better to use/carry for the short period of time rather then a rucksack haha

Info on the SPS
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/282_e.asp


BTW: I've tried to search for this and couldn't find any threads directly on the SPS.

thanks
bart



edit:  If anybody has some time and knowledge on the Reserve life of the CF, please let me know as I have a few questions I can't figure out and dont want to start a thread


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## geo (20 Mar 2008)

It's a rucksack that does not have a frame but has a semi rigid foam pad.
It's ok as a day sack.

Try your search again - there are several threads on the subject.


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## medaid (20 Mar 2008)

It's a GREAT school bag, and a POS tactical bag.


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## mr.rhtuner (20 Mar 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Try your search again - there are several threads on the subject.




ok, so I search for 'small pack system'
selected: Search in topic subjects only 

and when I search, it brings up tonnes of threads with the keywoards 'small' 'pack' and 'system' but no threads directly about it.  I'm not a forum n00b, unless i'm missing something that searches directly for what I'm writing and not keywoards.


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## Michael OLeary (20 Mar 2008)

Try a search for "small pack" with the quotation marks.


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## Shamrock (20 Mar 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> It's a GREAT school bag, and a POS tactical bag.



Holds all your classroom needs but your pride


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## kierankyllo (20 Mar 2008)

Good pack for long distance patrolling over varying weather conditions.


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## MJP (20 Mar 2008)

kierankyllo said:
			
		

> Good pack for long distance patrolling over varying weather conditions.



Patrollling where?  It is not a good pack for any sort of patrolling especially when you have your vest and plates in.  I and most others find it quite simply doesn't do the job. The assine attachment pockets are quite useless and the pack alone weighs a ton more than it has too.  It doesn't use standard Molle so you can customize your pack to your job, instead uses an attachment system that ensures you have to use the craptacular bags that come with it.  No compartments to speak of and you have to take most everything out to access anything at the bottom.  Sternum strap and waist straps look like they were added on as afterthoughts.  So I ask what is good about it?


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## mr.rhtuner (20 Mar 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Try a search for "small pack" with the quotation marks.




That did it, thank you!


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## medaid (20 Mar 2008)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> Holds all your classroom needs but your pride



Ah... my pride...  :'(



			
				kierankyllo said:
			
		

> Good pack for long distance patrolling over varying weather conditions.



Are you using some magical NEW small packs?!  :


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## benny88 (20 Mar 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> It's a GREAT school bag, and a POS tactical bag.





			
				Shamrock said:
			
		

> Holds all your classroom needs but your pride



  Haha I've posted this before: a facebook group of civvy-u students and reservists AGAINST small packs as backpacks. I guess on course or even at RMC they're ok.  

  http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4901743129


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## kierankyllo (20 Mar 2008)

Carries your weather kit and additional ammo well enough and it carries a radio much more comfortably than the "rack pack", I don't mind it and as far as I know there really isn't a sound alternative out there in the system.  Of course I am speaking from an "on exercise" perspective and not from any kind of deployment experience.


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## NL_engineer (21 Mar 2008)

I for one have bashed the small pack enough in the past, so I thought I would add in some good points:

Its holds out water well (it kept the kit I had in it dry wile out doing patrols in a freaking thunder storm  :)
It works well as a book bag (for army courses)
works well as a briefcase
works well to hold PT kit   

Well thats all I can think of  ;D it is not a magical do anything bag like CTS makes it out to be, but it is a decent garrison bag  ;D

just my 2 cents


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## davidk (21 Mar 2008)

The only decent use I've found for the thing is to carry the 522 - fits better in the radio pocket than the harness that comes with it - but even then, when it comes to using anything on the faceplate, it's awkward.

Good gym bag, though. Thanks, CTS!


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## Forgotten_Hero (21 Mar 2008)

Yes, youll have access to it in the reserves. My personal opinion on it is similar to everyone elses. Its junk. 
Sure, it has its uses and I have used it in the past for the simple reason that I wanted to carry some spare kit with me for whatever reason and I dont want to go spend money on an actual decent bag, but its a very flawed design. The designe is flawed and doesnt work with the tacvest. The way the straps are done, I find, just causes unnecessary strain in some of my back muscles, not from weight but just from the design of the thing, and I find thew waist belt doesnt fit around the tacvest... You can get around that by lowering the smallpack all the way down and then attaching your waist belt under your tacvest, but then the weight sits too far down.


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## geo (21 Mar 2008)

Personaly, I use it to carry my PT gear


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## medaid (21 Mar 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Personaly, I use it to carry my PT gear



It actually sits in my office as a constant reminder of how NOT to produce kit...


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## Pea (21 Mar 2008)

I use it for PT gear as well. Once I get out to BC in about a month, I'll be using it as a book bag for school.


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## medaid (21 Mar 2008)

Pte Pea said:
			
		

> I use it for PT gear as well. Once I get out to BC in about a month, I'll be using it as a book bag for school.



I will try and hook you up with a GOOD backpack


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## R031button (2 Apr 2008)

Yeah, about the only good thing with the small pack is that it fits in the RG's bins well.


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## Fusaki (3 Apr 2008)

Pte Pea said:
			
		

> Once I get out to BC in about a month, I'll be using it as a book bag for school.



*cough*cough*gay!*cough...

Reference facebook group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4901743129

Nothing says "Yay me!" like a CADPAT backpack on civvie street...


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## medaid (3 Apr 2008)

Hey hey hey I resent that comment! I've got CADPAT bags and... Oh wait I guess I'm okay...part of the job I guess.


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## DiverMedic (5 Apr 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> *cough*cough*gay!*cough...
> 
> Reference facebook group:
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4901743129
> ...



Unless I am mistaken, Pte Pea is doing the PCP portion of his MedTech QL3 course which is a civvie course done in combats.  So it isn't THAT gay.  Just hope he doesn't carry it around in public out of uniform too...cause THAT would be gay.

DM


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## armyvern (5 Apr 2008)

DiverMedic said:
			
		

> Unless I am mistaken, Pte Pea is doing the PCP portion of his MedTech QL3 course which is a civvie course done in combats.  So it isn't THAT gay.  Just hope he doesn't carry it around in public out of uniform too...cause THAT would be gay.
> 
> DM



Don't tell me that I'm going to have to join that group now ... just to go in and post that the SPS certainly is allowed to be worn with civvies??

It may not look good, but it is allowed; and heck -- it's functional too!! Who'd ever think it?

Oh, and Pte Pea ... is a she. And, I'm pretty sure that the PCP portion of her course that she's doing in BC -- is done in her "On Car" uniform ... not cadpats.

 :


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## PMedMoe (5 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure that the PCP portion of her course that she's doing in BC -- is done in her "On Car" uniform ... not cadpats.



AFAIK, only the ride alongs are done in On Car uniforms.  The rest is done in CADPAT.


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## armyvern (5 Apr 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> AFAIK, only the ride alongs are done in On Car uniforms.  The rest is done in CADPAT.



Fair enough -- either way she's allowed to use her SPS, and when in civvies too.


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## DiverMedic (5 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Don't tell me that I'm going to have to join that group now ... just to go in and post that the SPS certainly is allowed to be worn with civvies??
> 
> It may not look good, but it is allowed; and heck -- it's functional too!! Who'd ever think it?
> 
> ...



Never said it wasn't allowed.  Just that it looks like crap.  

Sorry Pte, Pea, didn't mean the gender mix.  Didn't look and assumed.  My mistake.

And as already stated, the course is in CADPAT and the on-car is now in the civvie type uniform as of AUG07.  

DM


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## Eye In The Sky (5 Apr 2008)

The pack isn't even that good of a PT kitbag really.  I went back to using a civie Adidas bag.


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## Armymedic (5 Apr 2008)

The small pack is an OK FIRST generation pack. It beat what we had before. Remember what that was? Oh, yeah. Nothing.

There are alot of better packs out there now, and in CADPAT even.


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## McG (5 Apr 2008)

It is also a more than adequate cycling pack if you bike to work.

Quick release capability would be nice for the field.


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## armyvern (5 Apr 2008)

DiverMedic said:
			
		

> Never said it wasn't allowed.  Just that it looks like crap.



That bit of my post was in ref to the Facebook site that you linked to:

"SASPAS" Students Against Small Packs at School )--- where a bunch of kids are citing QR&Os stating the SPS isn't authorized for wear -- (the QR&O that states that you can't mix uniform parts with civvy dress).

No worries, I stepped in to point out the error of their ways in that the SPS is not ... a uniform.  

(Had to post there as the guy who started that particluar Facebook group hasn't been active here for about a year ... )


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## Pea (7 Apr 2008)

I'll be doing my PCP portion of my QL3's out in BC at a civilian institute, but we will be wearing combats to school each day. (except for when we're on-car, and wearing the appropriate on-car uniform) So I don't think there's anything silly about wearing a military bag, with my military uniform. Although, many a small pack are used in civi's at the gym here in borden, since most arrive in combats with their PT gear inside.


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## Fusaki (7 Apr 2008)

> I'll be doing my PCP portion of my QL3's out in BC at a civilian institute, but we will be wearing combats to school each day. (except for when we're on-car, and wearing the appropriate on-car uniform) So I don't think there's anything silly about wearing a military bag, with my military uniform. Although, many a small pack are used in civi's at the gym here in borden, since most arrive in combats with their PT gear inside.



Seen. I assumed that you were PRes going to school outside of the army.

One of my pet peeves is seeing small packs and civvies. On (or on the way to the) base or to the gym, thats fine. But with non-PT civvie clothes at school, at the mall, ect. I maintain that while technically allowed, its still gay.  It's up there with grocery shopping in combats, or driving from Pet to Toronto in combats for the long weekend.  I know the QR&Os are very specific about what's against the rules and whats allowed, but some things are still flaming regardless. Wearing ballistic eyewear with civvies is another example. "They're free sunglasses" is no excuse for looking like a wiener.


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## DiverMedic (7 Apr 2008)

What's wrong with grocery shopping in combats?  I know after work, Moncion's in Pet is packed with CADPAT stopping in for quick meal fixings on the way home

DM


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## blacktriangle (7 Apr 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> Seen. I assumed that you were PRes going to school outside of the army.
> 
> One of my pet peeves is seeing small packs and civvies. On (or on the way to the) base or to the gym, thats fine. But with non-PT civvie clothes at school, at the mall, ect. I maintain that while technically allowed, its still gay.  It's up there with grocery shopping in combats, or driving from Pet to Toronto in combats for the long weekend.  I know the QR&Os are very specific about what's against the rules and whats allowed, but some things are still flaming regardless. Wearing ballistic eyewear with civvies is another example. "They're free sunglasses" is no excuse for looking like a wiener.



I agree with my delicious counterpart here... 

CADPAT is ugly, and shopping or driving long distances in uniform (on leave) is equally distasteful. I personally think people that wear smallpacks and other army kit on civi time do so because they are too awkward in society to come up with good civilian style for themselves!!


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## daftandbarmy (7 Apr 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> I agree with my delicious counterpart here...
> 
> CADPAT is ugly, and shopping or driving long distances in uniform (on leave) is equally distasteful. I personally think people that where smallpacks and other army kit on civi time do so because they are too awkward in society to come up with good civilian style for themselves!!




Awkwarrrrrrd....  :-[


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## medaid (7 Apr 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> I agree with my delicious counterpart here...
> 
> CADPAT is ugly, and shopping or driving long distances in uniform (on leave) is equally distasteful. I personally think people that where smallpacks and other army kit on civi time do so because they are too awkward in society to come up with good civilian style for themselves!!



Once again I resent your comments!


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## R031button (8 Apr 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> Seen. I assumed that you were PRes going to school outside of the army.
> 
> One of my pet peeves is seeing small packs and civvies. On (or on the way to the) base or to the gym, thats fine. But with non-PT civvie clothes at school, at the mall, ect. I maintain that while technically allowed, its still gay.  It's up there with grocery shopping in combats, or driving from Pet to Toronto in combats for the long weekend.  I know the QR&Os are very specific about what's against the rules and whats allowed, but some things are still flaming regardless. Wearing ballistic eyewear with civvies is another example. "They're free sunglasses" is no excuse for looking like a wiener.



I have to agree with that whole heartedly. Especially the eye wear that's even a no no unless you have to wear it. Key rule is, if it doesn't look cool in uniform, it's not gonna look cool out. That being said I thought it was hilarious in Edmonton to see this guy walking around wearing his clear BE on the way to work.  Oh I also hate people who wear wet weather boots around in civies, also very homoerotic.


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## armyvern (8 Apr 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> I agree with my delicious counterpart here...
> 
> ...I personally think people that wear smallpacks and other army kit on civi time do so because they are too awkward in society to come up with good civilian style for themselves!!



Sure it looks dorky, but it's legal.

And ... the only people who think they look dorky ... are serving members -- not the average civilian populace. Have you ever walked into the kids department of a store and seen the camo stuff on the shelves?? It's cool, it's "what's in". You can even buy luggage in luggage stores these days in the pattern.

WE think it looks dorky simply because it IS what we wear everyday working.

Besides, they pick up chicks in this stuff.


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## R031button (8 Apr 2008)

yeah, but the camo stuff in a store is designed to look good. I gotta say, cadpat is pretty ugly in comparison. I've never seen a guy pic up a girl in any of the above mention style disasters. It's pretty much up there witht he course t shirt tucked in with cadpat belt and gerber.


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## armyvern (8 Apr 2008)

Location, location, location ...


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## medaid (8 Apr 2008)

R031button said:
			
		

> That being said I thought it was hilarious in Edmonton to see this guy walking around wearing his clear BE on the way to work.  Oh I also hate people who wear wet weather boots around in civies, also very homoerotic.



I've worn my WWB in civies, so what? It was was snowing and cold. I was shoveling snow in my drive way and it worked out perfectly. I also wear Magnums in civies, and 5.11 and a variety of other boots and things.

You just aren't tacticool.


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## R031button (8 Apr 2008)

tacticool only applies when you're tactical  I'm usually not tactical when I'm walking down a street in Canada.


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## armyvern (8 Apr 2008)

R031button said:
			
		

> tacticool only applies when you're tactical  I'm usually not tactical when I'm walking down a street in Canada.



"Tactical" applies at work ...

"Tacticool" applies on civvie street; perhaps that is where you err.


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## McG (8 Apr 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> Wearing ballistic eyewear with civvies is another example


of kit that is excellent for biking to work.  You never know when a car is going to kick up a stone.  ;D


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## Panzer Grenadier (8 Apr 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> of kit that is excellent for biking to work.  You never know when a car is going to kick up a stone.  ;D



 ;D Awesome.


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## NL_engineer (8 Apr 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> I agree with my delicious counterpart here...
> 
> CADPAT is ugly, and shopping or driving long distances in uniform (on leave) is equally distasteful. I personally think people that wear smallpacks and other army kit on civi time do so because they are too awkward in society to come up with good civilian style for themselves!!



So you must hate Oromocto then  :  walk into any store after 4 and you will see people in cadpat


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## armyvern (8 Apr 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> So you must hate Oromocto then  :  walk into any store after 4 and you will see people in cadpat



Authorized until 1800hrs.


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## NL_engineer (8 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Authorized until 1800hrs.



lol

just left timmies at gateway (15 min ago), and there were 4 people in combats sitting down having coffee  ;D


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## armyvern (8 Apr 2008)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> lol
> 
> just left timmies at gateway (15 min ago), and there were 4 people in combats sitting down having coffee  ;D



Yeah, but those are probably course candidates or instructors who are doing field/teaching work ... it's allowable if they're still on duty (or just coming off/going on).

Those of us who got off at 1600hrs ... are supposed to be out of uniform by 1800hrs.


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## Eye In The Sky (9 Apr 2008)

I seem to remember some former Base RSMs that used to occassionally drop into the Legion and low and behold, after 1800 hrs some folks would be there in comabts.  Check the Base Duty List!   ;D


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## NL_engineer (9 Apr 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Yeah, but those are probably course candidates or instructors who are doing field/teaching work ... it's allowable if they're still on duty (or just coming off/going on).
> 
> Those of us who got off at 1600hrs ... are supposed to be out of uniform by 1800hrs.



by 1630hrs unless they have to make a stop on there way home  ;D


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## Bzzliteyr (9 Apr 2008)

I am no longer posted here (on IR in Val) but is this a written rule or a "we've always done it like that" rule?


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## ProPatria031 (9 Apr 2008)

I wear my CWWB, and 5.11 in the winter and spring (especially this week, there is mud and puddles everywhere in Pet) with my civvies all the time, its one of the only articles of clothing authorized to wear with civvies anytime. this way I wont get mud and other filth to my nice shoes that I paid a pretty penny for. don't get me wrong, you'll never see me wearing them at Shots or the Whorehouse  though. The BEW are absolutely useless in everyway, they are terribly designed (they scratch themselves when you fold the arms in), they fog even with that gay little wipe, they are suburbly ugly, oh and this is the best, when 3 RCR was down in Texas, some guys decided to test are BEW against Wiley-Xs (not sure what model), they simulated shrapnel by shooting a shotgun at them, the BEW got annihilated and the Wiley-Xs stood up to the task. to get back on topic. the small pack is good for taking snivel kit out on a rang day, its also far better at carring a 522 then that abortion 522 carrier they issue out to us. and


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## DirtyDog (9 Apr 2008)

I wear the small pack home on weekends to carry my clothes and whatever.  The most action it sees is from my truck to my front door back home, or occasionaly to my girlfriend's apartment from the parking lot in downtown Ottawa.

It saves me from having another pack up here taking up space in the barracks and I haven't decided on a gucci replacement tactical pack yet.

And if i don't feel like stopping to change after work, I will ocassionally make a stop at the groccery store or whatever.  It's not like people are trying to stand out and look cool in Pet by walking around in uniform.  it doesn't impress anyone.


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## ProPatria031 (9 Apr 2008)

I'm looking for a replacement to, I was looking at Camelbak Hydration/Cargo backpacks, some of those are pretty sweet


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