# The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread



## FreshPez

First post, please be gentle.  I checked the recruiting category, didn‘t see this issue.

I‘ve been interested in the military all my life, never really considered it till recently.  I‘m in computer engineering, with two years job experience before graduation.  After 9/11 and two years in a cubicle, I‘ve decided that a desk job is a horrible way to spend the next 30 years, and have looked even more seriously at the military.

The problem is I‘m having the hardest time finishing the degree.  When going to my doctor, he suggested I maybe depressed.  If I talk to a councillor or get some form of help, I‘ll be able to finish my degree, I know I can.  But if I‘ve been treated for depression, will I ever be accepted into the CF?


----------



## Mike Bobbitt

I don‘t have the "right" answer here (plenty of others will jump in with that) but my advice is treat the depression and take it from there.

I can‘t imagine that depression precludes you from the CF. Members sometimes suffer from PTSD and regular old depression and are not (generally) released as a result of that...


----------



## dalredane

I‘m no MD...but I do have a Psych degree.  A lot of doctor‘s rush to make the assessment of "depression" with no long term criteria.  Depression should be a global thing if it requires "treatment".  When I mean global, I‘m talking about how it affects your entire life etc...  The fact that you have a job and are on your way to completing your degree suggests that you are at least on the ball.  Doctors like to treat symptoms rather than eliminate underlying factors.

- If you are having doubts about your career choice and/or education after that long of an investment then of course you will be somewhat "depressed".
- Look at the underlying causes in your life and then reassess if you are truly depressed or whether you are just going through a low time in life.  Life is all about peaks and valleys and medication should be the last resort.

I was "depressed" a while ago while I was in a dead-end gov‘t job where I had no input.  Made me have a short temper and sometimes not want to go to work on certain days...long story short...changed jobs and feel great.

Ask yourself what would I like to do that I for the most part "wouldn‘t consider work", then take the steps necessary to accomplish it.  You may find that this "depression" is more a symptom of your current place in life rather than a biological problem.


----------



## nexxyboi

I‘m not sure how this works in the CND army, but in the US Army, depression prior to enlistment is in most cases a disqualifier. I would make extra sure before you do anything. Of course, if you "feel" depressed, getting treated should be your first priority. There are always other options.


----------



## PilotGal

Hey there Freshpez,

Interesting post. I have depression issues too, well, mostly seasonal depression, and I, too, am wondering if that will be a problem in joining the Canadian Forces. I would understand the reasoning behind disqualifying terribly depressed people, but I don‘t think they would automatically disqualify you for having paid a visit to the shrink for assessment or whatever. Again, I‘m not in the forces, so I wouldn‘t know their policies, but the logical thing to do would be to assess each case individually, I guess. And I do hope that people like us who want to serve in the Canadian Forces would be given the chance to do so. 

D.


----------



## KoRps

Hey, I was just wondering if I can still join the army if I take anti-depressants?


----------



## Tpr.Orange

To be honest i have no idea your best bet is to go to the nearest recruiting center, and speaking with one of the qualified medical staff at the facility to see what they say about it.


----------



## GrahamD

I couldn‘t find the official policy after a short look around, but I can tell you that it would SEEM that the answer would likely be no.

I have seen plenty of people indicate that they were declined for needing prescription medication to treat ailments less "serious" for lack of a better word.

I mean, if you apply for a trade like plumber, or construction, or something else that is not combat arms, then maybe you would be looked at.  But a soldier who requires medication to treat pshycological illness is not an ideal candidate to be placed into a combat situation.


----------



## ringo_mountbatten

My personal experience with this issue when I applied was that the person conducting my medical told me it would be best if I weened off them asap if my doctor and I agreed it would be okay.  Otherwise he said I might have problems getting an offer.  The reason he gave was a very valid one; he said that if I were on ops or otherwise away from a pharmacy there would be no guarantee that I could refill my prescription in time to get more and that the effects of missing meds and how my body would react would be unknown.  I was lucky and was able to start weening off them the next day. I never heard anything about that issue again and I was made an offer later on that I had to decline.  Obviously this is just one persons story and the recruitin centre woulnd know far more about the policies than I would, but I think that if you had to be on meds that the outlook might be a little dim for the forces.


----------



## The_Falcon

I was on Anti-depressents for about three years (Prozac).  I started after I had already been accepted.  Everywere I went on course, tasking, I had to go see the MO and speak with nearest SgtMaj, and reasure them I wasn‘t about to go pull a gomer pyle.  I wasn‘t allowed to submit my name for tour however because of them.  For basically the reason you stated, they probably would not be able to refill my scrip while I was over there, and they did not want going nuts.


----------



## Jason Jarvis

Based on my wife‘s ongoing experience with anti-depressants, I would advise you to consider other career options. Why? I don‘t know how to be delicate about this, so I won‘t try.

If you are taking anti-depressants because of a severe, life-altering event and are having regularly scheduled visits with either a psychiatrist or psychologist, then I would wait until both you and your counsellor agree that it‘s time for the pills to go. If, after a period of 6-12 months after stopping the medication, everything seems fine and you feel well adjusted with no recurrence of earlier problems, then go on down and talk to the recruiters.

BUT, if you are taking anti-depressants to treat a diagnosed medical condition, such as severe depression or bi-polar disorder, and you require the medication to moderate your seratonin levels (as in my wife‘s case), then you most definitely SHOULD NOT JOIN THE MILITARY. Aside from the remote chance of somebody "going nuts," someone caught without their prescription in a stressful environment is just as likely to collapse into a little corner of their own world -- which could lead to a Gomer Pyle -- but in any case they wouldn‘t be any good to their buddies because they simply couldn‘t function (at any level). Do you really want to take the chance of this happening?


----------



## combat_medic

Lots of good points made here.

The CF is concerned as much with the fact that you‘re taking the medication, but the ARE concerned about the underlying condition. If you have clinical depression, bipolar disorder, or other mental health problems, then your ability as a soldier is severely hindered. When put into extremely stressful situations, it can aggravate the condition, with or without meds, and you may not be able to cope.

You should speak to your doctor or psychiatrist (whoever prescribed the meds in the first place) and ask them about your condition. If your doctor thinks that your condition has improved enough to warrant taking you off meds, then they can do that, or change the prescription, or offer alternate therapy.

But, as was already stated, are you sure this is what you want to do with your life? Some of the situations in which you might find yourself could exacerbate your symptoms, and delay any kind of long term cure. You could end up far worse off than you ever were. Even if the military accepts you, are you prepared for that kind of risk?


----------



## venero

WOW thanks, This has been the most informitive thread I have read. I am on antderpressants and am waiteing to hear what Borden says about my meds. However I am not takeing antidepressants for depressan, I am takeing them for the anitobsessional charteristics that come with most antidepressional drugs. Ill post the outcome on here when I hear back from them.

Do you have a better chance of getting an offer if you join the Reserves then Regs?


----------



## KoRps

I thank you all for your input. After much thought I have decided that although I remain interested in the army, now is not the time. I have just gone through **** in my life and aside from that I have had depression from when I was a kid, geneticly. I will have to fix myself before I can join.


----------



## Lajeunesse

Hey everyone I have a quick question for those of you that can answer it. I‘m currently on Paxil (anti-depreasent) i‘ve been on this for a couple months now but I haven‘t told the military about this. They dont know about it for 2 reasons;

1)I started this medication after I took my drug test and statement.

2)I think this is a personal thing and was unsure if i was obligated to tell them if I was on it or not.
 I‘m going to Basic soon and i know they‘ll find out there if I continue to keep it a secret plus I dont want to get into **** already so, what should I do?


----------



## cathtaylor

When you go to basic you will be tested again and more intensive. They will find out about the medication. Perhaps you really should talk to your recruiter about this. Anti-depressants are something you really don‘t fool around with. If this indeed is something you need to help you. But I would talk to them if I were you. Just my two cents.


----------



## cathtaylor

Not telling them about this medication and hiding it from them will not work.


----------



## Sh0rtbUs

CathTaylor is right. leaving it up to ‘dont ask, dont tell‘ will only result in trouble. You should really place it before them and see what they have to say about it. If they were to find out afterwards, you‘d be in a world of hurt for not letting them know from the get go.


----------



## Lajeunesse

ok **** now how pissed do you think they‘ll be for me not letting them know about it as soon as I took them or considerd it. What if they dont want me anymore becuase they think i‘m not mentally stable or somthing?


----------



## willy

Let me tell a little war story here: without going into specifics, for obvious reasons of privacy for the individual involved, I once instructed on a course where a student was suffering from serious psychological problems.  A long history of serious, serious incidents concerning this member came to light over the course of the time he/she was at the school.  The individual in question frankly told the staff the whole history of the case, and it was quite bad to begin with.  Moreover, though I am not a psychologist or a psychaiatrist, I could see, and other students who were living closely with the member could see the problem becoming worse as the course went on.  It got to the point where the other students were expressing their concern to me on an almost daily basis, and I don‘t believe that they were overreacting at all.  The long and the short of it was this: even though the member was judged by the staff as a whole to be a danger to him/herself and others, higher authorities intervened (against all my advice to the contrary) and the member in question graduated from the course.  At what cost though?

What you should take from this example is the following: your being on antidepressant medication may or may not cause you to be removed from training.  What I think you need to consider very strongly however, is that your basic training will be a stressful time for you, and I personally don‘t think that it‘s the place for you to be if you‘re going through a rough patch.  I advise you to be frank with your recruiter right now, and to seek some professional advice as to whether or not proceeding on BMQ would be a good idea.


----------



## cathtaylor

I have to agree with willy about this.Basic is not only physically demanding but more so mentally exhausting for sure. We are not doctors and we certainly don‘t know what you are going through personally but don‘t you think your health is more important? Please talk to somebody about this, your doctor and your recruiter.


----------



## Lajeunesse

OK well I wasn‘t gonna get into this but here goes; I wasnt sure if there was anything wrong with me a couple months ago, there was no reason for it other then (my grilfriend and the atmosphere I was in) picture a 16yr old on his own having to worry about rent, bills, having a job, food ect.. and then having a really really bad relationship[ with a GF from **** that i would catch cheating on me and a whole world of other screwed up mind games and bull ****.
Now I live with my mom until I can afford to make it on my own again but this time i‘m gonna be in a job that i‘ve always wanted to be apart of, the teamwork the feeling of being apart of somthing...feeling elite..ect I don‘t think I need the meds anymore I actually forget to take them alot and I feel like my old self again. Maybey all i needed was to get away from all that BS I was stuck in. So in short I  no I‘m mentally strong enough to handle Basic its always been my dream, So I don‘t think re-thinking about my decision is a thought in my head.

I‘m gonna be stright up with me recruiting officer and let him know I plan on getting off them before I go to basic. Hopefully they understand were I was coming from and give me a break for not telling them about the meds.


----------



## willy

Well, it‘s obviously your decision to try and go ahead with BMQ or not.  But you‘re going to have to tell the army about this.  It may or may not cause you to be removed from training, like I said. I know that isn‘t what you want to hear, but that‘s unfortunately the way it is.  Be honest with them, and I have no doubt that things will work out for the best in the long term.


----------



## brneil

Here‘s my two cents worth.

‘Technically‘ CF members are not allowed to ingest any medication that is not prescribed by a CF doctor, including tylenol.

If you have medication at BMQ it is likely that it will be seen during inspection and you will be questioned about it.  If you have not been forthcoming with recruiting it is possible that you could face charges related to the medication (military not criminal).

You have an obligation to inform you recruiter and seek their advice.

Best of luck


----------



## Lajeunesse

So are you seriuosly implying that i‘m already up to my neck in **** for not informing my recuiter, even though I‘m not technically even considered offical yet?
I haven‘t even been sworn in yet.....
****it I‘ll be so disapointed if this blows up in my face...just for trying to help myself.
They can‘t seriously charge me for doctor prescribed anti-depresents, that as of today i‘m no longer taking. Like **** you guys are scaring me please no bullshit if you seriously know what your talking about then please inform me what ou think but if your just blowing smoke up my *** then this isn‘t funny, i‘m trying really hard to do my best and it would really suck if I got discharged for somthing this petty.


----------



## brneil

No, but you are better off approaching it head on before it looks like you have been trying to get away with something.  Just re-inforcing other posts which have said you should deal with the issue upfront.


----------



## rdschultz

I think he‘s talking about facing charges after the fact if you try to sneak around about taking them.  You‘re not going to get charged with anything now, it just might affect your going to basic later this month.  

Also, I know very little about paxil, but isn‘t it an SSRI?  If you‘re just stopping it cold turkey, you might want to check with a doctor first (I don‘t know if thats the best method, or if there‘s a weening-off method).  I believe paxil was the medication in the states that was the subject of some lawsuits where people quit taking it and then killed their family and stuff.  Not that I‘m saying you‘re going to do that, but its probably not a bad idea to check with your doctor before just stopping it because you don‘t want the fact that you‘re taking it to interfere with your plans.


----------



## rdschultz

and if you check brneil‘s profile, you‘d realize that he‘s JAG.  So I don‘t think his comments are just "blowing smoke up your ***".


----------



## brneil

Pte. Lajeunesse,

We are not tryinig to scare you just trying to give you advice and emphasize the importance of being upfront with the recruiting office.

Imagine if you were the employer and you had a rule that your employees had to consult with a company physician regarding any medical condition.  You hire an individual and then find that this individual has brought medication obtained without your knowledge. Two problems:

1. The employers physician was not involved therefore the employer was denied knowledge of the condition.

2. The employee was told not to do it so it weighs against the employees credibility.

All anyone is saying is be upfront and honest with your recruiting officer.  The worst thing you could do in this situation is arrive to basic with a prescription only medication and be found hiding it.

You have mentioned that you are now off Paxil.  I agree with hoser rd that you should definitely discuss how to stop with your physician.

On the positive side if you discuss this with your physician and he/she agrees that you don‘t really need the meds any more than all you have done was to take a prescribed medication under the guidance of your physician prior to swearing in, no problem.

What some people don‘t realize is that after being sworn in they are not normally entitled to go to a civilian doctor or hospital any more.  When you join the forces you definitely give up some of your autonomy and independance but for many of us that is balanced off by the benefits of the career/lifestyle.

To re-stated my advice and that of others who have responded, first talk to your doctor, then if it is determined that you should still be taking the medication talk to your recruiter, and no matter what don‘t try to sneak anything into basic it will be found and and at that point you would likely face charges.

Best of luck


----------



## Lajeunesse

Thanks for all your advice I was not planning on Bing the meds to Basic and I‘ve already consulted my Doctor...You stated that 

"On the positive side if you discuss this with your physician and he/she agrees that you don‘t really need the meds any more than all you have done was to take a prescribed medication under the guidance of your physician prior to swearing in, no problem."

So therefore I should have no problems then right?


----------



## brneil

It seems to me that if you have consulted with your doctor about ceasing the medication then you should be fine.  Just remember to always be straight-up during your career as the little twists of truth or avoidance of truth have a way of coming back and biting you in the ***.


----------



## Lajeunesse

well thanx for the good advice..Those of you that said that i can be excluded from BMQ for non-prescribed anti-depressents that actually was a sample trial period which i was taking before I was even made an offical member please get your facts straight befor scaring the **** out of another recruit with different questions and rather what you think that should or might happen.


----------



## willy

Dont get whiny.  As stated above, no one was trying to scare you just for s***s and giggles.  You asked a question, and you got an answer.


----------



## cathtaylor

Be HONEST, Pte Lajeunesse that‘s all we are saying, we are certainly not here to scare you. In fact in this forum I read a lot of supportive posts;we have so many questions, while  venturing out on this "big step" in life. I wish you the best of luck, and be well in mind and in body.


----------



## cathtaylor

One more thing, Life is sure going to throw a lot more curves your way; that‘s a given. You‘re young, try to face them head on, I truly believe that you do not need a little pill to help you through it, unless it‘s serious.


----------



## PharmO

Private Lajeunesse,  I was a military pharmacist (PharmO) for 8 years.  First off, there is no reason not to tell your recruiter about your anti-depressant medication.  There are lots of military personnel being treated for depression, just as there are lots of civilians.  The only meds I dispensed more than anti-depressants were anti-inflammatories, Tylenol#3, and amoxicillin.  In fact, the MAJORITY, not minority, of people will be treated for a depressant episode at least once in their lives.  It is nothing to be ebarassed or ashamed of, no more so than a diabetic should be ashamed of the need to take insulin.  This is not some thing you had control over.
Second, drug tests in the military DO NOT screen for anti-depressant medications - they look ONLY at drugs of abuse so you will not be "found out" as it were.  It is, however, important that the military doctors and pharmacists know all of you medical conditions and the meds you are taking to ensure you are diagnosed and treated properly for any other medical problem that develops.
Trust me, being on an antidepressant is nothing to be ashamed of and certainly not a reason to deny admission into the forces.  It will also not make you less likely to survive basic.  Just keep your ears open and your mouth shut and you‘ll be fine.   

Allan

E-mail me if you have any questions about your medication.


----------



## PharmO

Brneil,
I realize that you are a JAG, but there is no way a member will be charged, not even a recruit, for bringing a prescription medication, being used to treat a diagnosed medical condition, to basic training.  Good advice is a good thing to give but that kind of over-blown scare tactic only makes people LESS likely to be honest.  There is too much of that in the CF ethos as it is.

Allan


----------



## PharmO

CathTaylor,
  You are certianly entitled to your opinion but MY opinion is that you are severely misinformed concerning your statement of "..not needing a little pill to help you through it."  Perhaps the Parkinson‘s patient should just suck it up and get over it?
  Depression is a real illness - it can occur to anyone regardless of their phyisical, mental, or emotional capacity.  There is little you can do about it on your own.  It will not just go away without proper treatment.
  The belief that people who suffer from depression are just using anti-depressants as a crutch because they can‘t cope is the single biggest barrier patients face to treatment.  You may want to educate yourself before passing judgements such as this.

Allan


----------



## cathtaylor

Thank you PharmO that was well put, I certainly did‘nt mean to undermind his condition or anyone elses. I do know what you are talking about I‘ve worked in the medical field for a few years and personally have known people with this illness, I just wanted him to be honest with his future employer. Sorry if I seemed to be have judged him wrongly.


----------



## kbowes

Hello Allan, I posted the following a week ago regarding the topic at hand but didn‘t find any follow-up posts. I was wondering if you‘d mind giving some feedback when you have a chance?

Thanks,
K.



> Originally posted by Kurbo:
> [QB] I just had my CFAT, PT, and medical for the reserves. Everything went great, but the medical is pending. The reason is because I take Paxil. I started it in Nov/01 and have since since tapered to 1/2 the dosage. I‘m actually tapering even more as I don‘t feel the need for it anymore. I was experiencing a little bit of anxiety at the time and decided to consult with my Doc. Upon telling this to the medic, he said I could be temporarily rejected or maybe rejected outright. I just wanted to ask if anyone (or knows of anyone) out there who has dealt with this while applying to the Army. Recruiting is waiting for the follow-up letter from my Doc. I‘m wondering if anybody has any input on what the CF‘s views on these medications are. It seems widely accepted in society, but perhaps not so with the CF.


----------



## brneil

PharmO

I agree with you that no one should be trying to panic new recruits.  The aim of my posts was to emphasize that it is important that one is forthcoming in regards to situations like this.  The fact is that after you enroll you are subject to different rules and regulations than as a civilian and it seems to me that you are far better off going into the forces straight up, in other words don‘t try to hide something that may be esy to deal with.

On the other hand people have been charged in the past for possessing prescription drugs without a valid prescription of a CF doctor or permission from one at the least.  That is not to say that anyone caught with Advil will get charged but the way the regulations are written it is possible.

I think we have both been trying to get the same message across.  By straight up with the recruiting office and if you have concerns as you go along in your career talk to a doctor or social worker, but why take the change of doing something that looks suspicious and could cause you grief in the long run.


----------



## CWeb26F

Kurbo- if you do a search for ‘antidepressants‘ there are a few previous posts on the topic (ie from a year ago). Allan is right, there are hundreds of ppl in the military currently taking them (my ex used to work in a military pharmacy and also said they were among the most commonly prescribed meds).

The problem for us is that military medical standards are much more stringent when being recruited than when you‘re in. Depression is a big no-no to the folks in Borden- for whatever reason. Same with asthma and many other easily treated conditions. The military just doesn‘t want to deal with it unless they have to (ie you‘re already in).


----------



## soon to be infantry

I have a friend who was going through the process last year (reserves) because she was on paxil she was told she was not suitable. 
     In such an emotionally driven carreer such as the CF, I think its important to be of all things stable. At the beginning anyways!.
     Also remember all that paperwork we signed, stating that we were disclosing all information to the best of our knowledge. Honesty and Integrity are important aspects of this job and should not be taken lightly.
     Dont get me wrong im sure your a great applicant, but I dont agree with how you handled yourself during the recruitment stages.


----------



## kbowes

> Originally posted by Hayleylisa:
> [qb] Kurbo- if you do a search for ‘antidepressants‘ there are a few previous posts on the topic (ie from a year ago). Allan is right, there are hundreds of ppl in the military currently taking them (my ex used to work in a military pharmacy and also said they were among the most commonly prescribed meds).
> 
> The problem for us is that military medical standards are much more stringent when being recruited than when you‘re in. Depression is a big no-no to the folks in Borden- for whatever reason. Same with asthma and many other easily treated conditions. The military just doesn‘t want to deal with it unless they have to (ie you‘re already in). [/qb]


Thank-you very much Lisa for your input. If I give a nutshell of the situation when I began the meds, maybe you can give me an idea (or your opinion) of where I might stand now. It wasn‘t actually depression I had, but a bit of anxiety. It was brought on by a trying relationship, a recent rejection on a police force application, and legitimate fear of a job lay-off. I just felt on edge about these issues (with good reason in my mind) and decided to consult w my Doc about the stress. Within 10 min of my visit, he had me on Paxil. In retrospect, his bedside manner was lacking. Given society‘s broader acceptance of mental ailments such as anx/depress‘n, I thought it was ok. A year ago, I cut my dosage in half.  When I visited with my new Dr a couple of weeks ago to bring him the recruiting follow-up letter, he concluded that it should be ok for me to be completely off the meds in 6-8 weeks. I‘m thinking 4-6. I don‘t consider myself someone who is afflicted by anxiety or depression on a constant basis. I basically had some tough stress. My Doc also seem to give the impression that I didn‘t need the pills anymore. My plan all along was to eventually be off Paxil; I just wasn‘t in any rush.  

I realize you aren‘t in recruiting, but anything you can offer would be sincerely appreciated.

Thanks,
K.


----------



## kbowes

> Originally posted by soon to be:
> [qb] I have a friend who was going through the process last year (reserves) because she was on paxil she was told she was not suitable.
> In such an emotionally driven carreer such as the CF, I think its important to be of all things stable. At the beginning anyways!.
> Also remember all that paperwork we signed, stating that we were disclosing all information to the best of our knowledge. Honesty and Integrity are important aspects of this job and should not be taken lightly.
> 
> Dont get me wrong im sure your a great applicant, but I dont agree with how you handled yourself during the recruitment stages. [/qb]


Hello, I was wondering if you were directing the comments in the last paragraph to me or someone else?

Thanks,
K.


----------



## Charlie

:-[ :-\ I am worried about my medical.  I will be quit personal about this because I need an answer.  Don't think I'm some kind of weirdo though.  In the past I have had ADHD and Depression.  Not sure If I really still have either.  I  received quiet decent grades in high school but had trouble with talking alot during class, I could however concentrate plenty enough to thouroughly understand the work.  Now that I'm out, there's no where that it's really a problem. As for the depression, I still take meds for it.  I don't know if they actually do anything anymore, if they do theyre doing a fantastic 110% job at it.  What I would like to know is if I'm going to be discriminated  (if thats the right word) against for it?????  Im also a certified lifeguard and swim instructor,....that's gotta count for something right????  Somebody please help me out, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. Peace


----------



## cathtaylor

Hi Charlie just be honest with your recruiter and discuss your situation...when you go for the medical you have to tell them what medication you are on and you have to tell them...they may want you to get a letter from your doctor explaining your condition so if I were you I'd make an appointment with your doc around or just after your medical so he can write something down for you to give to the recruiter's...hope this helps and good luck.


----------



## Pieman

Charlie, 

This is an idea you would want to bring up with the recruiter first, to make sure will be useful:

If I was in your shoes, I would definitely get a note from my doctor, but I would also consider going to a psychological clinic and having an evaluation conducted. They way you can arm yourself with a note from a psychologist stating your current mental health state. (Who knows, you may discover that you don't need the medication anymore) That may alleviate any concerns that CFRC may have about a past history of depression. You could probably have an evaluation conducted within one or two sessions, don't know about the cost, but it would not be too much I suspect.

Just an idea, don't know if would actually help or not. Give it some thought and talk to your recruiter about it before you do anything though.


----------



## Spctr

:-\

Hi there,

I recently applied to the CF and was denied because of my depression.  To be specific, you must be off of medication and symptom free for at least a year before you can reapply.  Of course, doctors notes and possibly psychiatric notes will be wanted.  Also, it took them 6 months to figure out that I wasn't an acceptable candidate at that time, even though I was upfront about my depression when the whole process started.

My advice to you, is talk to a doctor, see if you can get off the medication and possibly arrange a time to get a psychiatric review done.  There is hope, I have waited a year and am now reapplying.  

Hope this helps,  good luck!


----------



## David Price

I need some help.  I have applied to the reserve force for a position in an armoured regiment via the DEO program.  I am 34 years old, and have completed all of the initial application stages (ie. PT test, medical).  My file has been reviewed in Borden and I have received a letter from one of the doctors in Borden informing me that I have been rejected for medical reasons but that my application may be â Å“reconsideredâ ?.  

My former family doctor put me on anti-depressants in January 2003.  My father had died and my business went under, and he felt I needed them.  I had no history of depressive episodes previously.  I took his advice.  I felt better after a few months, but my doctor believed I should stay on the drugs, despite my insistence that I felt I didn't need them anymore.  I changed family doctors in January 2004 (I thought my previous GP was a bit too eager to prescribe medication), and was told that I should never have been put on the meds in the first place.  I have been off the medication for eight months now and have had no recurrence of any symptoms.  The letter I received from Borden stated that, due to the fact that I had been diagnosed with depression, that I was deemed unfit for service but that my application could be â Å“reconsideredâ ? if I remain medication/symptom free for one year and submit an assessment from my doctor.  

I can certainly understand why the military imposes such conditions on recruits and I do not dispute their legitimacy.  What I want to know is how likely it is that the doctors in Borden will reconsider their decision if I am medication and symptom free for one year.  Do these letters get issued often?  Do the doctors reconsider their decisions often?  Is it possible that I may still be enrolled and given an offer, or am I just pursuing an impossibility?   I would like to keep trying, and am happy to comply with the wait period, but I would like some indication that I am not wasting my time.  Thanks.


----------



## Fraser.g

Out comes of the board  are reviewed often as long as the individual re-submits the application. By all means re apply in one year. If you feel that that decision is faulty then you can still request to be reviewed by an army Psychiatrist for a professional opinion. The other option is to have your case reviewed by a civi Phychiatrist and have that report forwarded to be attached to you file. 

Good luck


----------



## David Price

Thank you for your reply.  That is encouraging.  Does anyone have any idea how often a re-application is successful?  Is it very difficult to change their minds?  I would rather avoid the cost of seeing my own psychiatrist, but am happy to do so if that is what it takes to convince the Army that I am not a risk.


----------



## Fraser.g

I don't know how often they change their decisions but in lite of the information you gave on this forum it would not hurt to try.

I think that if you get a referral from your GP your visit to the shink will be covered under your provincial health plan but those are different for each province.


----------



## combat_medic

Daveman: The best thing you can do to prepare for a re-application is to come armed with as much information and evidence as possible. Get your doctor to write up that you were misdiagnosed with depression (if this is the case) and the anti-depressants were unnecessary. Have documented evidence from your doctor of everything, and keep copies after you application goes in. Documents can go missing, and it never hurts to have a backup. The more prepared you are for the process, the easier it will be for you in the long run, and the better chance you have of turning their heads. If they see you put a ton of foresight and effort into your application, it will definitely help your chances.


----------



## combat_medic

Charlie: The first, and most important thing you must do before you apply is to actually find out whether you have ADHD or depression. Many doctors these days can be very quick to over-medicate kids, and it's entirely likely you have neither. Find a psychiatrist in your area or get a referral to one from your family doctor. Mention your history of medication, and have them give you a formal diagnosis of your condition, if any. 

If you do not, in fact, have either, then have your doctor or psychiatrist wean you off the anti-depressants. Get documented evidence that you do not have clinical depression or ADHD, when you stopped taking meds, any adverse effects etc. etc.. In all likelihood, until you are off anti-depressants and sympton free for a while (usually a year), the CF will not let you in. If you still want to join, wait until a year after you got off meds, get all the documents pertaining to your condition from your doctor(s), and present it to the recruiting staff performing the medical exam. Like I keep telling everyone; the more valid, documented evidence you have that you're ok, the better your chances. Just saying you're fine is one thing, but a formal letter from a psychiatrist saying you're fine is what they'll pay attention to.


----------



## Mr. Ted

Another thing to do would be to seriously reevaluate your diet and excercise regemin.

Alot of kids diagnosed as depressed, hyperactive or ADD are simply eating too much crap, experiencing the sugar induced euphoria/crash, lacking excercise as well to regulate hormones and sitting in front of the TV too much.

Take a good hard look at your lifestyle - make any appropriate changes, determine if you are addicted to any food type/food allergy, determine if you consume too much alchohol, if you are involved in sports etc.  Then, if you are seriously feeling better you should follow up with your doctor.

NOTE - Do NOT go off meds without consulting your doc first.  There are many withdrawl symptoms associated with most Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors.  He may wean you off or reduce your dose.  Get your physician involved and ensure he gives you more than 3 minutes!

Mr. Ted


----------



## Armymedic

Charlie said:
			
		

> I am worried about my medical.
> 
> In the past I have had ADHD and Depression. Not sure If I really still have either.
> 
> As for the depression, I still take meds for it. I don't know if they actually do anything anymore, if they do theyre doing a fantastic 110% job at it.
> 
> What I would like to know is if I'm going to be discriminated (if thats the right word) against for it?????



Charlie, you have good reason to worry. The regular force will NOT take you if you have had a Dx of depression and have been requiring medications to control in within the last yr....as many others may have told you.
If you do not get selected for this reason do not dispair. There is a really good reason for this:
Currently, the number one cause of death amongst CF soldiers is:

no, not accidents, as is the case amongs non military people of the same age, but....suicide.

The CF is very serious about this issue and it is a real problem especially amongst deployed soldiers. So if you have already applied, expect to be denied, ask what you can do to be accepted, and reapply later.

In the meantime go to university or college and get an education...it shall not be a waste while you wait....

Good luck.


----------



## Armymedic

Now for the rant.... :rage:



			
				Pieman said:
			
		

> Charlie,
> 
> This is an idea you would want to bring up with the recruiter first, to make sure will be useful:



Is this what you did?



			
				Pieman said:
			
		

> If I was in your shoes,



You NOT!!! If you were you'd see how silly your suggestion was in relation to what he was asking....
Get a note from you're doctor? Is that like a note from your mommy giving you permission to show up at school late? Like the CF will make a decision on employing a person for the next 25 yrs with a simple note from a doctor. 
Last time I checked, just a "note" wouldn't be accepted by DMed Pol or Recruit Boards. Being actual doctors they like to see testing and other scientific evidence that you are fit.


And more then anything else: :rage: :rage:



			
				Pieman said:
			
		

> Just an idea, don't know if would actually help or not. Give it some thought and talk to your recruiter about it before you do anything though.



If your not going to give good advice and just spout off Pieman, why don't you just close your pie hole.


----------



## David Price

combatmedic:  I just read your post.  Thanks very much for your help.  I am seeing my family doctor for a referral next week and I will inquire of her regarding a letter outlining her position on this.  I will definitely keep your advice in mind.  Thanks again.


----------



## Charlie

:-\ Wooo..dude relax...whatever people said was just fine, they were just tryin to help.  Thanks for everyones imput. Ill have to wait till november to do my interview and such since i live in a remote community.  So I went to a phsychiatrist and he said i have very very very mild adhd and tourettes, which by 22 (when my brain is fully matured) will be all gone. He is going to right up a report which (he said, I have not read it yet), will say what i wrote above as well as  that if he were the military doctor he does not see any reason that i should not be accepted into the army.  And I have not had any signs of depression since i was 12 or 13 ...I am 18 now. And he's going to start taking me off the meds. Which supposedly werent for the depression but rather the adhd...which doesnt seem to be a problem anymore.  So thanks again everyone.  And lets just all get along, it makes it more pleasant for everyone.  Peace


----------



## Pieman

> Is this what you did?
> 
> 
> Quote from: Pieman on July 26, 2004, 13:08:29
> If I was in your shoes,
> 
> 
> You NOT!!! If you were you'd see how silly your suggestion was in relation to what he was asking....
> Get a note from you're doctor? Is that like a note from your mommy giving you permission to show up at school late? Like the CF will make a decision on employing a person for the next 25 yrs with a simple note from a doctor.
> Last time I checked, just a "note" wouldn't be accepted by DMed Pol or Recruit Boards. Being actual doctors they like to see testing and other scientific evidence that you are fit.



Actually if you REALLY MUST KNOW Armymedic, that IS what I did. So I was actually speaking from experience. Also, getting a letter (note, letter) from your doctor regards a past medical condition is actually quite common place in the recruiting process. (Do a search, quite common)   Many people gotten second opinion and evaluations outside the CF Doctors to support their medical file.   it does not mean a final decision your medical, but acts as support to your medical file.   The only difference between mine and Charlies situation is the time difference between the use of the medication. Which is why I said, * he should talk to his recruiter about it and CLARIFY before he actually took any steps.* Judging from Charlie's above post it sounds like he did just that and it is helping his situation. 

If you had any problems with what I said, then why not talk about instead of launching into a personal attack? 

Charlie, good luck with your application!


----------



## Torlyn

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Charlie, you have good reason to worry. The regular force will NOT take you if you have had a Dx of depression and have been requiring medications to control in within the last yr....as many others may have told you.
> If you do not get selected for this reason do not dispair. There is a really good reason for this:
> Currently, the number one cause of death amongst CF soldiers is:
> 
> no, not accidents, as is the case amongs non military people of the same age, but....suicide.



Really?  That's rather frightening.  I'm not questioning it, (obviously you know what you're talking about) but where did you find that info?  I haven't been able to find it anywhere public...  I suppose it stands to reason, given the battery of psychological testing the CF does.  Do you know if other military (US, Britian) have the same statistics?  (I'm more looking for a comparison to the other forces than anything.  Curiosity prior to joining, I guess.)  Thanks, Armymedic.

And to Charlie, when I was younger, I was also diagnosed with ADHD.  My father (bless him) refused medication for me for which I am thankful.  I have also had the opportunity to work with youth who have similar problems (ADHD & depression), and I'm sure that once you are cleared from the medication, not only will you be able to apply to the CF, but will be a much better potential member as well.  Build a plan to get you from here to there, with your family, physician, and (use the resources available) the recruitment centre.  You've got a year, so now's the time to make sure your physical fitness is more than adequate.  Take a military history course via correspondence, something to keep your interest up in the meantime.  Nobody likes to wait, but done properly, waiting can be productive.  All the best,

B.N.S.


----------



## Armymedic

To all, ref my post to Pieman above, I will digress and apologize for my rude comments. Your last post was much more articulate then the first.

For all, if you are giving advice, try to put your frame of reference to the advice. It helps to say I did this, or my friend tried that so that people have a context of what you are talking about.

As you may guess, I am seriously against the recruitment of anyone with a history of mental health problems/diseases. Other then the fact too many soldiers kill themselves, knowing where I work and whom I have to deal with may give you some insight to the base of my opinion.

Ref actual numbers of suicides, I don't believe thats accessible, but it has been recognized and programs have been put in place to attempt to reduce the numbers. Initiatives such as reintegration training, pretour counselling and increasing numbers of social workers accessable to soldiers are a couple programs which are a direct result.


----------



## Pieman

Armymedic, thanks and apology accepted. I realise now that I also blundered when I wrote my original post. I was trying to write it in a way that kept my experince of the situation 'under the hat', but I see now that was a mistake which is what caused this little spat. So please accept my apology.

I think we can all understand your concern about the mental health of soldiers coming into the forces.


----------



## CDNBlackhawk

Being ADD or ADHD doesnt mean they are goona say no to you, infact they will ask for your Doctors note saying that it will not effect you with training and duties..
How do i know this, Becuase I am ADD and this is what i was asked to get, and regardless to contrary belief, ADD is with you for life, some learn to coax with it better to almost the point it doesnt really affect them anymore, but you never get rid of it. That said... Be 100% upfront with your recruiter about it and the medical guy at the recruitment center will send you home with a paper that needs to be filled out and signed by your doctor.

As for the Depression, I cant comment on that best just to ask them.



good luck!


----------



## infamous_p

hey hows it going everyone

i applied to the CF reserve in november of 2004 (approx. 2 months ago) and everything is good to go.. but i have one question for anyone who has an informed answer for it

my medical and my interview went perfectly, but the only thing holding my file back is the note from the doctor i needed regarding a past depression episode i had. i was on antidepressants for approximately a year and a half, but i was taken off them last march of 2004 and i have had no symptoms as of then nor any side effects - i have been diagnosed as mentally stable and my chances of depression recurring are slim to none. i handed in the note today, and its being reviewed and they told me ill be starting BMQ tomorrow (friday january 14) if theyre fine with my doctors note..... so.. if i have been off the medication and symptom free for 10 months... as well as have an excellent prognosis.. should i be good to go?

thanks for any input guys


----------



## infamous_p

i should restate that this application was for reserve not regular... so if that makes any difference

thanks again


----------



## Michael OLeary

infamous_p said:
			
		

> so.. if i have been off the medication and symptom free for 10 months... as well as have an excellent prognosis.. should i be good to go?



Only the DND doctor (in Borden) who reviews recruit files with medical issues can give a definitive answer.

See the Medical threads in the Recruiting FAQ for similar issues and remarks on the Medical Review process:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103980.html#msg103980


----------



## spenco

I was on Paxil for about 18 months, I got off in '02.  I have been absolutely symptom free since then but they still made me get a psycholigist's letter to prove that.  It wont make a difference if you go PRes or Reg, they both have the same standards.  The only thing I can think of that would hold you back is time: they may not think that 10 months is long enough.


----------



## justincanada

Hi folks,

I've been wanting to join the Navy for a few years now and I've researched it quite a bit, but a few years back by doctor put me on a mild anti-depressant for a year. I'm not on it anymore but I was wondering if this would disqualify me for acceptance into the Canadian Forces?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Justin.


----------



## kitrad1

You're better off to speak directly with the people in the know. Phone your local recruiting centre and speak with their medical staff. My guess is that when you apply and go through your medical, they will ask for some additonal information (type, duration etc). I'm no healthcare professional, but it's just my opinion. 

Good luck.


----------



## coupland

Hello:

I have ready many threads about depression and trying to get into the military, however I have not seen any that talked about having been on anti-depressants in the past and still getting into the military.  Does anyone have a positive experience like that which they could share?

Cheers


----------



## Uberman

I am in a similar boat - Four years ago my family doctor prescribed Paxil for me. I tried it for a couple of months. My stresses were more situational than clinical depression. After applying and having a medical done by the military Warrant Officer, I went to my family doctor and a psychiatrist who both gave me clean bills of heath with the "would not hesitate to recommend Mr. *** for military duty. Hopefully that will eleviate any concerns. The point is, pro-actively obtain the evaluation and letters from your physician(s). Hopefully that will stomp out any concerns pre-emptively. 

Good luck, if I ever get my med docs back from Borden I'll let you know if it succeeded. You may also wish to look at this thread : http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26645.0.html

Cheers


----------



## spenco

I was on paxil for about a year ending in 2001 and my medical cleared on the second attempt, I had to get a letter from a shrink saying I was good to go.


----------



## infamous_p

coupland said:
			
		

> Hello:
> 
> I have ready many threads about depression and trying to get into the military, however I have not seen any that talked about having been on anti-depressants in the past and still getting into the military.   Does anyone have a positive experience like that which they could share?
> 
> Cheers



I had depression in the past, and I was on a heavy daily dose of antidepressants. I was cleared and accepted into the military upon acquiring letters from my psychiatrist. My file was cleared on the second attempt, no problem.


----------



## Sailors_Gal13

Hello All, 
I have been trying to get into the military for just about a year now and I finally got to do all the tests and since I had past depression which has been over for 2 1/2 years now my family doctor, whom I've only known for 1 month thinks that I'm not suitable for the military because of my past depression. I've told him over and over that I am fine now more fine then I've ever been in my life but yet he still seems to think that being in the military might trigger my depression to come back. I've had lots of ups and downs in my life in the past 2 1/2 years and the depression still has'nt come back. Plus I love the military and think that it will just make me happier since my family and husband are currently serving.
Has anyone else had this delay?

And with the forms your family doctor is suposed to fill out for the recruiting office, is the doctor aloud to charge 25$ a page? I have already spent 30$ for getting my files tranfered from Saskatoon (home town) to here in Halifax. I just think it's outragous that he is charging me for the recruiting offices property.


----------



## 9nr Domestic

Sailors_Gal13 said:
			
		

> And with the forms your family doctor is suposed to fill out for the recruiting office, is the doctor aloud to charge 25$ a page? I have already spent 30$ for getting my files tranfered from Saskatoon (home town) to here in Halifax. I just think it's outragous that he is charging me for the recruiting offices property.



Yes the doctor can charge you, if the provincial government will not pay for these forms to be filled out.




			
				Sailors_Gal13 said:
			
		

> Hello All,
> I have been trying to get into the military for just about a year now and I finally got to do all the tests and since I had past depression which has been over for 2 1/2 years now my family doctor, whom I've only known for 1 month thinks that I'm not suitable for the military because of my past depression. I've told him over and over that I am fine now more fine then I've ever been in my life but yet he still seems to think that being in the military might trigger my depression to come back. I've had lots of ups and downs in my life in the past 2 1/2 years and the depression still has'nt come back. Plus I love the military and think that it will just make me happier since my family and husband are currently serving.
> Has anyone else had this delay?



I would get a second opinion if I was you. It may cost more money but in the long run it would probably be worth it.


----------



## chrisf

9R Domestic said:
			
		

> Yes the doctor can charge you, if the provincial government will not pay for these forms to be filled out.



Some (not all) Doctors have a habit of charging silly prices for simple forms...

Personally, I had to get a form filled out when I joined, by a psychologist I had seen for a while at one point... we had a brief (ten minute) chat, he filled out the forms, and I was blown away when he didn't charge me a cent for it, just said best of luck on getting in.


----------



## strongchristian

Hi Sailorsgal,

Concur with 9R domestic, getting a second opinion wouldn't hurt. 2.5 years seems like a significant amount of time to go by. From reading some threads on this site it seems like if you took prozac or valium, etc. during that time, it may be an issue you run into during your recruiting process. Also, depression is sometimes recurring so you have to consider that it may come back while you are in the service, and how would you cope with that.  Maybe you can call your recruiting office and get them to put you in contact with someone familiar with the medical policies in the CF.


----------



## ami

i am on antidepressants, for being ... depressed! i didn't push to get therapy or any other more indepth treatment than a perscription, really, so i'm not listed as being anything other than having "major depression" in my med file. will i not be approved for certain positions, or all of them? i take one pill, once a day. i can go without for one day; two days i get headaches and vertigo. three days the withdrawal symptoms increase, and etc. it's bearable, just pretty unpleasant.

and my perscription is -3. and i'm 5'8" and 110pounds (172cm and 50kg) and pretty weak. (and also female... ^^)

thanks


----------



## Hockeycaper

Not sure what acceptance you are looking for... or question you are asking.  However there are many people who are medicated regularly and still live strong and meaningfull lives. Are you looking at joining the military? Or just looking for opinions on your condition? Just to warn you an open form like this may be both helpfull and harmfull for your question, good luck.


----------



## ami

this is the recruiting section of the board, is it not? i wanted to know if i could get recruited.


----------



## NavComm

ami said:
			
		

> i am on antidepressants, for being ... depressed! i didn't push to get therapy or any other more indepth treatment than a perscription, really, so i'm not listed as being anything other than having "major depression" in my med file. will i not be approved for certain positions, or all of them? i take one pill, once a day. i can go without for one day; two days i get headaches and vertigo. three days the withdrawal symptoms increase, and etc. it's bearable, just pretty unpleasant.
> 
> and my perscription is -3. and i'm 5'8" and 110pounds (172cm and 50kg) and pretty weak. (and also female... ^^)
> 
> thanks



Well I'm not expert but I'll take a stab at this.

First of all, they will ask you if you have ever suffered from depression/attempted suicide, etc. I don't know what the response is if you answer yes, except that at a minimum you'll probably need a doctor's letter to state that you are ok. I don't think you will qualify for entry if you are currently taking anti-depressents but I could be wrong. Ask a recruiter.

Also, you state you are 'pretty weak'. I'd suggest you work on getting 'pretty strong' before you apply. 5'8" and 110 lbs is not bad, but if you have no muscular strength you're going to have a pretty hard time on ruck marches and just generally having enough energy to make it through basic training.

If you are serious about joining the military, then get yourself to a physical trainer and talk to your doctor about getting off medication. Maybe once you are more physically fit, your mind will follow.


----------



## Springroll

ami said:
			
		

> and my perscription is -3. and i'm 5'8" and 110pounds (172cm and 50kg) and pretty weak. (and also female... ^^)
> 
> thanks



Put some weight on. 110lbs for a 5'8 is to skinny and can be unhealthy.
The prime weight for me, at 5'5, is 135-150lbs.....

Also, being female is no excuse for being weak...get working out!!


----------



## Infanteer

I'll give you a hip-shot answer and say "No".  Phone a recruiter to discuss details of what you need to do to be acceptable as an applicant.


----------



## Fry

I'll agree with Infanteer on this one.

They asked me about a bunch of mental problems with me, or anyone in my family. Also I'm 99.9% sure that if you're taking depressants or anti-depressants, you won't get accepted, however I'm not 100% sure, hence the 99.9%.


----------



## Shadowhawk

I'll be nice ...  ;D


Discuss your concerns with the RECRUITERS ... not in an open forum ... other people do not need (or want) to know your medical history. 

(just better that way ... especially if you are behind me with a C7)

Good Luck.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Question answered. If anyone can offer more detailed advice, it is probably best sent by IM.
Thread locked.


----------



## CEhopeful

I have been on anti depressants for about 6 months, they are very mild and I only tkae on does int he mrning. I was wondering what willt he military do about this. I also had a heart operation whn I was born, should I tell them. any info would be greatly appreciated as I go for my physical in a bit more then a month.Thanks.


----------



## CEhopeful

I recently read I have to be off my meds for a year in order to join the CF? Thats Discrimination if you ask me. Isnt racism a mental disorder, they dont give two craps about that.Anyways,, I Am very displeased with the CF if this is the case.

cheers


----------



## Gunnar

You were on meds because of your race?  Kewl.  What kinda meds...what do they do..?


----------



## CEhopeful

haha...no. I was on them for mild depression,after the split of my parents.I am going to hand my papers in, but I have read on several forums that it will take a year for me to be evaluated, and I still may not get in.

cheers


----------



## CEhopeful

I take 75 mg of effexor everyday.THey are just your run of the mill anti depressant, and I was never,ever diagnosed as suicidal or a threat to others.

cheers


----------



## Gunnar

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that before the CF trains people in efficient methods of killing, that they ascertain that:

1)   The prospective soldier is not chemically dependent, and therefore a risk.
2)   The prospective soldier is not into getting high, which makes them less alert, and therefore a risk.
3)   The prospective soldier is not suicidal/homicidal, and therefore a risk.

Life is hard.   The acceptance of difficulty with equanimity is going to be a basic part of being a soldier.   Count this experience as one of those things in life that is unpleasant, and deal.   There have been plenty of people with starry backgrounds who jumped through a lot of hoops to get in, but got in anyway (do a search, or browse the recruiting thread--there's been more than one discussion of pot/medication).   They didn't give up, they followed the rules, and they were persistent.

So add #4

4)   The prospective soldier is worth training for the long haul, because they don't give up when things get unpleasant.

I mean, can you imagine a soldier who ran away from the lines because the enemy was shooting at him, and it made him feel bad?   Or who deserted because he hated being in a wet, muddy foxhole?

Some military sayings, for inspiration:

Suck it up!

Shut up and soldier.

Life sucks, get a helmet.


Hope this is of some use to you.


----------



## Mojo Magnum

I am not unsypathetic.  I have felt the Iron grip of depression myself.  I would not presume to tell you what you can or cannot handle.  

If your Doctor determines that you can function without your meds, the do so.  If daily civilian living (which no doubt can be tough), proves to be too dificult.  Then why would you deliberatley increase your stess load ten fold by taking on

the application proces for the CF
weeks of waiting and uncertainty
followed by 10 weeks of full time BMQ
then another 10 or so weeks of SQ.
To then go into an occupation that could put you in the position of unlimited liability.  (getting killed).

Taking a year, getting straightened out through proper diet, excercise and some solid reading and counseling is a solid prescription for anyone.  Don't bite off more than you can chew.  I have no doubt that you are capable.  

Take your time, make good choices.


----------



## Hunter

Effexor 75mg is a pretty low dose, but my feeling on it is that if it makes you feel better there's no need to discontinue taking it.  Besides, there are lots of CF members taking much more than that.  Nobody is going to reject you solely because you take this medication.  Stay off the pot though;  marijuana use has been shown to make depression worse.  And when they ask you about your past drug use, be honest.  

The application process takes a long time, be patient.  I applied to join in August 2001, and it took until January 2002 to get sworn in.  Good luck!


----------



## CEhopeful

Thanks alot for the advice(minus the "pharmaceuticla cabinet"remark") I have quit smoking pot and do not plan on smoking it again,my roomate smokes a lot and I have not brooken, and its been over a month. My depression is very low. I want to join the army for experience,adventure,and yes combat if the oppourtunity arises.I have completed three years of Universty, but do not wish to return as I believe that path in life is what may have caused some of the depression I am experiencing. I am in excellent shape, and not to be cocky, but probably a lot better then most peopel on this site, I go to the gym every day and jog 5-8 km a day with ease, I eat very healthy as well. Thank you for your advice and any further information would be great.

cheers


----------



## DrSize

If you need pills after your parents split what the hell is going to happen to you after you do a tour and see some messed up shit....The CF doesn't need mentally weak people like yourself.

Life has alot of ups and downs and a pill is not the solution.....


----------



## camochick

My understanding is that you can't be on anti-depressants when you join but they can prescribe them when you are in. I don't think it's discrimination, who wants someone who is potentially suicidal beside them with a gun. As for being fit hehe, 5-8k runs are nothing, try 30k and come back and be that cocky.


----------



## Kat Stevens

DrSize said:
			
		

> If you need pills after your parents split what the heck is going to happen to you after you do a tour and see some messed up crap....The CF doesn't need mentally weak people like yourself.
> 
> Life has alot of ups and downs and a pill is not the solution.....



Get back to me after your first detail excavating and cataloguing a mass grave in 40C temps.  You talk a pretty good game, for a guy still in the locker room. :

Kat


----------



## Hunter

DrSize said:
			
		

> ....The CF doesn't need mentally weak people like yourself.



I'm curious as to what makes you think you are qualified to judge (a) what the CF needs, and (b) whether someone is mentally weak or not based on what they have posted here..

Depression is very common, has a variety of causes, and as is evident in this thread it is usually misunderstood.  For some it's simply a chemical imbalance, while others it has a root cause in the person's circumstances.  That doesn't make someone mentally weak, and very few people with clinical depression are suicidal.  Nor does it make them a 'walking pharmaceutical cabinet'.

From what I've read, the originator of the thread is asking some pretty simple questions and there's no need for the insults some of you have posted.  How about helping this kid out with some relevant and useful answers.


----------



## Infanteer

DrSize said:
			
		

> If you need pills after your parents split what the hell is going to happen to you after you do a tour and see some messed up shit....The CF doesn't need mentally weak people like yourself.
> 
> Life has alot of ups and downs and a pill is not the solution.....



You sure have a big case of Tough Guy syndrome - it should do you good when you attend BOTC, look for it in the leadership principles....

You're climbing the ladder because this isn't the first time you've pulled a stunt like this.  Keep it up.

The Staff


----------



## Chimo

There seems to be a lack of general knowledge about depression and mental illness from some of the comments I have read in this forum. I think most would be surprised to find how prevalent it is in the Forces. Soldiers need leaders that are understanding, knowledgeable and sympathetic towards those suffering from these issues, many of which are job related, from situations as Kat described. 

Many Soldiers resist seeking help with their issues because of the stigma attached to depression and mental illnesses. Leaders make off the cuff comments that show a lack of empathy and the Soldiers will burden themself further by trying to deal with their problems without professional assistance. This often leads to high levels of depression, further mental illness or even suicide. Please take the time and educate yourself and you may be a more effective leader.   

As for the candidate that wants to join and is upset about the waiting period and the requirements. Tough. Every institution has requirements and standards. We are in a very serious business and rightfully demand the best. We want a "known quantity" as a recruit. One day, we will demand a high return on the investment, we made in you as a Soldier. If you can't understand that, perhaps the Army isn't the type of vocation for you. As to your comment about Physical Fitness; you remark is so general it is laughable. You have no doubt lowered many of those peoples opinion of yourself further by making them. Stick to what you know. Follow the regulations the Recruiting Center places on you and keep you cake-hole shut until you know of what you speak. Chimo out!   :rage:


----------



## KDingwell

I have a similiar issue:
I am NOT diagnosed as depressed. In fact, none of my doctors ever put an actual diagnosis in my file, as there was complete disagreement between them. However, I was briefly on antidepressants (Dec. 2004), as well as had a short stint in a psych ward (Jan. 2005 for 5 days) and was in the care of a psychiatrist to monitor my condition for 6 months thereafter. I had no reoccurences of my symptoms, and my file with the psych has since been closed.

I've not been on medications for almost a year (well, it will be a year probably by the time I do medical), but I have since been in the care of a psychiatrist - is that likely to hinder me?

K. Dingwell


----------



## midgetcop

I humbly apologize if this issue has already been addressed on another thread (I haven't found anything after searching)..

I've been on a very low dose of an antidepressant for almost 2 years now...I had an episode of depression and my family physician had prescribed me this medication. Although I feel fine now the reason I don't come off of it is because of the horrible withdrawl symptoms (nice, eh?).

Are the recruiters going to have a problem with this? I remember when I took my medical in order to join CIC years ago I told them that I had been on Prozac, and they wouldn't accept me until I was off of it. 

I'm sure this post paints me as an emotional mess.


----------



## kincanucks

Go and talk to the medical personnel at the CFRC/D.


----------



## midgetcop

Thanks for the link.

As a teenager I felt that I was put on drugs prematurely, and I feel the same about this past episode. Basically, it was a matter of me going to my doctor's and saying that I feel depressed (due to a breakup), and him prescribing me medication. 

I think I'm going to make an appointment and see if I can ween off the medication.


----------



## Charlie

Here's an update to the post: I applied in July 04, did my physical and aptitude in oct 04, my medical and interview in Jan 05.  My med came back asking for another letter from my doctor ( i had already given them an up to date report in january and had been off meds since around nov 04).  My medical came back cleared in June 05.  I redid my physical in July 05.  Was given a job offer in Nov 05, swore in on Dec 15th 05 and I leave for basic in 2days.   Thanks for the advice , good luck to everyone else.  CHEERS



P.S.  I think closing this thread now would give it a nice story book ending.


----------



## LanJ

Hey, 

Ive been depressed lately (for a few months now) and i don't mean to harp, but ive been considering antidepressants and i would not want that to ruin any chance of me joining the CF. its a dream of mine to join. 

Anyway my question is if i was on antidepressants would it have any effect on recruitment?



Thanks.


----------



## Roy Harding

Apply - the medic will answer your question.


----------



## LanJ

still got some credits to get before i can.

And not to put down your statement but wouldn't it be better to walk in knowing


----------



## Roy Harding

LanJ said:
			
		

> still got some credits to get before i can.
> 
> And not to put down your statement but wouldn't it be better to walk knowing



I'm not sure what you mean by that post - can you elaborate?

You can only "walk knowing" by checking with the expert - in this particular case, the medic at the CFRC (who will not be expressing his personal opinion, but rather that of a MD who is qualified to make that opinion).

Basically - what I'm trying to say is that no one here can authoritatively answer your question - you'll get a lot of opinions, and a lot of personal stories, but only the CFRC can answer your question for sure.

Best of luck to you - no matter how you make out.


----------



## LanJ

oh, im sorry i must have miss read what you first wrote.

Thanks alot


----------



## davidsonr_91

I was diagnosed with depression six years ago and had a hard time coping with normal thing but over the past six years I have learned a lot about myself and slowly got myself off the medication.  I have been off the anti depressants for almost six months now and I am coping better then I have ever done.  I want to be a police officer and I did my medical and received my medical form from the recruiting office and dropped it off with my doctor who i was not diagnosed by but when i moved to the city I needed some way to get anti depressants so only went to see him for pills.  When i was first diagnosed i saw a shrink but stopped seeing him because time didn't permit and didn't see the need to see him.  I also want to mention that I have had firearms like shotguns and rifles for a long time now and also have a restricted firearms license from the federal government which they had to know i was diagnosed with depression before I was given the license.  The form that my doctor filled out for the recruit centre mentions how he feels it is a high risk for harming myself and others as he checked off yes and where asks if he is concerned that i handle firearms and explosives he also checked yes.  But in the area if it asks him if he thinks i will have a problem dealing with the extreme stresses of military work he checked no.  This all makes no sense to me and if anyone knows how they think this will affect my application I would love some insight cause I'm lost as to the next step.  I am applying for MP reserve.  Thanks for anything anyone can offer. ???


----------



## infamous_p

decoy said:
			
		

> Did you speak to him about why he answered that way? It probably won't expedite the process, that's for sure!! The military takes depression very seriously.



Perhaps the doctor misread or misinterpreted the form he was supposed to fill out causing him to inadvertently check "yes" in those boxes?

If not, and the doctor genuinely feels that you are a concern when it comes to handling firearms and for hurting yourself and others, then maybe there are underlying issues that you still need to deal with/seek help with, and you may run into some heavy problems in joining the CF...

But first of all, check with your doctor to see if he truly believes you are a danger to yourself and others, etc.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

We're not going here. Like every other med problem, you have to talk to the CFRC. We're not doctors, nor can we prescibe, or diagnose on the internet. If you need a internet doctor, type 'Viagra' into Google.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Yasa

I'm posting this here as it related to the use of anti-depressants, however; not in the typical form.  I'd like to view other peoples opinions so  I will copy and paste the message I had sent to another user recently (with some things edited).

_Hello,

I understand you probably get many private messages asking about various medical questions, however; after doing a search I couldn't find anything that was particularly useful to me.  I've wanted to have a career in either the military or police force since I was young (I'm 20 at this point) but there was an issue when I was 18.  Unfortunately I had been given a prescription of anti-depressants to help me get to sleep better at night.  There was an evening when I was intoxicated and had taken more than the required amount and subsequently I had to go to the hospital.  They classified this as an intentional overdose and then I was put into critical psychotherapy for a few weeks. 

I know this was not the case when I had taken the pills, it was an accident and poor judgment from myself due to drinking.  My question to you is;

Should I bother applying with the Canadian Forces, and if so; should I bring this up?

I have no idea if this is on my medical records, I would assume it is being that I was in the hospital over night.  My personal belief is that not telling the entire truth is just as bad as lying and therefore in my eyes I'd still not be fit for the Canadian Forces, but with this situation I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.  I do understand why the CF would rather not allow me in; as it would seem my mental stability is low and unfortunately I have no proof other than my own word about what happened.

While joining the military has been one of my dreams, I do have another career path; that being a paramedic.  I've always wanted to help people since I was young and both of these careers would help me achieve this.  I am no stranger to stress and I thrive on it, but I would like to know if I should put the quest for the military behind me and just focus on this new career choice because of what happened almost 3 years ago.

Thank you for your time,

_ 

During the therapy I had attempted to explain the situation and the counselor understood but still insisted I attend a few more sessions.  I chose to do so simply because I figured if I needed to get anything off my chest, there was a place I could do it.  I am perfectly alright, and I completely understand, if the answer is "No you shouldn't apply" or "You can apply, but don't count on making it in."  This was a stupid mistake on my part, and as a result of it I have stopped drinking (I know, kind of extreme...but so far it's been worth it).  Like I said, I assume this incident will be on my medical records and while taking the counseling, I asked if this was going to be removed.  Unfortunately he said no, and he had no access to my file as he was not a doctor.

I have no mental health problems so it would just be unfortunate if I was turned away for an incident such as this, but that's life!

Thanks for your time guys (and girls).


----------



## medicineman

I'd hazard to guess that this question has been raised and answered ad nauseum here - however, this is something that is between you, your Recruiting Office Physician Assistant/Doctor and your own doctor.  If you're serious about applying, just make sure you don't lie about it - you may be asked for a doctor's note to clarify things.  Everything is done on a case by case basis.  Lastly, most of us rarely give any advice much more than this online - it's bad medicine and it might give you unrealistic expectations pro or con about your application.

Cheers and good luck.

MM


----------



## the 48th regulator

Yasa said:
			
		

> No ideas eh?  That's alright, thanks anyway!



Get both of your psychologist and psychiatrist to write a leter, that states you are fit to serve.

Does that help?

dileas

tess


----------



## Yasa

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Get both of your psychologist and psychiatrist to write a leter, that states you are fit to serve.
> 
> Does that help?
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



I haven't really thought of that, that's a good idea! However I haven't seen them since then and that's almost 3 years from now, and I forget his name but I think if I do some digging I should be able to find out who they were.  Thank you!


----------



## davidsonr_91

Well,
the rest of my story is just a few threads above this. to continue on I got my shrink to write a letter about me seeing him and taking my medication faithfully.  He aso recommended me to the CF and also mentioned that he is aware that I want to be a police officer.  I dropped my letter from the shrink to the med officer/sarg and he didn't have anything to say abou it but that ottawa will get my file, look it over and make a decision.  I have another week and a half to two weeks to find out.  I have been anti depressant free since last dec so 9 months now.  I know there isn't much i can do but not sure what the next step is after this.

Thanks 
Rob


----------



## davidsonr_91

Today finally got my long awaited letter from Ottawa stating I am medically unfit after a got the second opinion from my dr who stated in the letter to med that he recommends me and that I am at low risk of my depression returning because of my coping skills but still received the letter stating that im unfit and so on.  Which I don't think I have any more options left for this but if anyone has any ideas i'm quite open to them as this is quite a discouraging thing. 

Thanks much

Rob


----------



## kincanucks

Sorry it didn't work out for you.  Good Luck in your future endeavors.


----------



## the 48th regulator

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Sorry it didn't work out for you.  Good Luck in your future endeavors.



I concur.

You may want to look at this angle in supporting Canada

http://jobs-emplois.gc.ca/

dileas

tess


----------



## Smitty1690

davidsonr_91 said:
			
		

> Today finally got my long awaited letter from Ottawa stating I am medically unfit after a got the second opinion from my dr who stated in the letter to med that he recommends me and that I am at low risk of my depression returning because of my coping skills but still received the letter stating that im unfit and so on.  Which I don't think I have any more options left for this but if anyone has any ideas i'm quite open to them as this is quite a discouraging thing.



I'm in a similar situation, and just got my letter yesterday. It seems that the military won't let you serve with a past episode of depression, but allows current members suffering from depression (likely developed after enrollement) to stay enlisted. I guess the best advice would be; just lie.


----------



## George Wallace

Smitty1690 said:
			
		

> I guess the best advice would be; just lie.



BRILLIANT ADVICE!

What kind of idiot would give such advice, on an open forum.  If you want to really be kicked out of the CF, DISHONOURABLY, that is one of the best ways of doing it and it will affect many future job applications you may try to make.  Absolutely brilliant.

Don't lie.    You will only get caught................Both of you.


----------



## medicineman

Smitty1690 said:
			
		

> I'm in a similar situation, and just got my letter yesterday. It seems that the military won't let you serve with a past episode of depression, but allows current members suffering from depression (likely developed after enrollement) to stay enlisted. I guess the best advice would be; just lie.



Bad advice - if you get caught lying (and most people do), you won't be doing a real happy dance when you're no longer with us and you find a black mark against your name as having lied on a job application medical - might find a hard time getting a civil service job, applying for insurance, all sorts of stuff like that.  It will come back to haunt you.

Best advice is this - it's not personal (though it seems like it sometimes), it's just business, so be honest.  BTW, more often than not, there is something else going on we're not hearing here, so be careful about counselling people to commit an offence under the National Defence Act.   

MM


----------



## PMedMoe

What occurs (medically) with someone *after* they have already enrolled and what medical conditions they have *before* enrollment are two entirely different things.

It would be great if the medical services could have a big crystal ball so that they wouldn't enroll anyone who might *eventually* develop a medical condition *while already serving*.  

While you're lying about your medical condition, why not lie about your credit/employment/education too?  :


----------



## kincanucks

Smitty1690 said:
			
		

> I'm in a similar situation, and just got my letter yesterday. It seems that the military won't let you serve with a past episode of depression, but allows current members suffering from depression (likely developed after enrollement) to stay enlisted. I guess the best advice would be; just lie.



Ban this person as their limited usefullness has come to an end.


----------



## Niteshade

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to plainly see this guy is pissed about his letter and giving his angle. Ill-advised yes, but it is his opinion.

From what I am seeing (and I do not profess to be an expert on this subject, nor even close to a feeble novice):

If you have depression: speak to your doctor and get help. Work through your problem and get off the meds and phychotherapy. It is also reasonable to say that you should have been clean and clear of any problems, any form of treatment whatsoever, and clear of meds for a number of years.

Then when you apply, you divulge that yes, you did have a problem. They will send you to your doc with a letter. Then your doc (knowing you are in such good mental health), fills out the letter honestly and truthfully saying your in great shape mentally and endorses you.

You take letter the medical staff and run the gambit. If they see you are fit, you get in (which may be likely). If you are unfit (which may also be likely) you do not.

You can always re-apply after another bunch of years of "non-treatment" have elapsed further proving your mental stability.

My take on it all.

Nites


----------



## Smitty1690

Niteshade said:
			
		

> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to plainly see this guy is pissed about his letter and giving his angle. Ill-advised yes, but it is his opinion.


Yes definetely a frustrated if not slightly sarcastic remark..just thinking that had I not received any help, I would not have been medically rejected. Double edged sword...



			
				kincanucks said:
			
		

> Ban this person as their limited usefullness has come to an end.



Thanks for turning a simple frustration into a witch-hunt. I should be allowed to freely type up my non-disrespectful thoughts without being banned. And what part of you is even remotely qualified to be the judge of my usefullness kinkanucks? Thanks for the respectful and professional comment.



			
				Moody said:
			
		

> Well now I have something for the <a href="http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/76543.0.html"> Whats the dumbest thing you heard said today</a> thread.



again...


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

Think about the potential impact that a comments such as "_I guess the best advice would be; just lie_" may have on this forum. Look at how many times this thread has been viewed. 12479 times and counting! A lot of people who really want to be in the CF may be in similar if not identical situations and looking for answers on this forum. After reading that you were declined for being honest about your previous condition, they may follow your advice, cover up their conditions and squeak in. Your issue may not be or have been serious, but there's may well be. I, and all of the CF I am sure, do not want to learn about their conditions at a time when we need them most. 

The CF has set these standards in place for a reason and you have to accept that. Personally, if I disagreed with their decision, I would contact the recruiting centre to see if there was anything I could do. Others have done it and you can read the various posts on that very subject. Sounding off on a forum filled with your peers and those who may be handling your file is not going to change anything.


----------



## JDA

I find it absolutely ridiculous to deny access to the military for depression. Everyone has been depressed. Its the same thing as being down. That happens when your not doing anything. When you get inward and blame yourself. When people say "He's depressed" what are they essentially saying? Its simply ignorance. Not understanding the persons situation. If a person has the right to be angry. How can they not have the right to feel hurt. The people who deny ever having depression aren't listening. WHO HASN'T COME TO A POINT IN THEIR LIFE WHEN THEY NEEDED HELP? Noone. So if your going to call someone depressed because they weren't helped. 
Please if you post like you haven't had depression then your part of the denial. The only reason depression is now treatable is so the gov can make money off it. Antidepressants actually make you worse. Amazing how depression all the sudden became global. It used to just be stop complaining. The disease is the antidepressants. Ignorance


----------



## PMedMoe

JDA said:
			
		

> The only reason depression is now treatable is so the gov can make money off it. *Antidepressants actually make you worse.*



.........and antibiotics won't help an infection either.......   :


----------



## the_girlfirend

JDA said:
			
		

> Antidepressants actually make you worse.



Mental diseases are very common, I think that a lot of people suffer from them. They just don't know how to call it, and not everybody will think about seeing a doctor about it.

But medicine is a science and from a scientist point of view... if you are sick it is because there is something in your body that is not doing his job properly.
Scientists found a way to improve the general well being of depressed people, and this is why doctors prescribe antidepressants.

I understand that some people may have had bad experiences with antidepressants, (I hate anti inflammatories ), but still this kind of drug is a life saver for others.

Yes it is hard to be turned down by the CF when you know that you can do a good job, but I think everybody has a chance to prove them wrong, in this case I think that taking a year to work on yourself and improve your resume, your experience and come back in a year with a stronger application and a year proof of mental health... is the best thing to do... the journey will only make you stronger. (I assumed that people are allowed to reapply after a year, please correct me if I am wrong, or if it depends on the case)


----------



## JDA

the_girlfirend said:
			
		

> Mental diseases are very common, I think that a lot of people suffer from them. They just don't know how to call it, and not everybody will think about seeing a doctor about it.
> 
> But medicine is a science and from a scientist point of view... if you are sick it is because there is something in your body that is not doing his job properly.
> Scientists found a way to improve the general well being of depressed people, and this is why doctors prescribe antidepressants.
> 
> I understand that some people may have had bad experiences with antidepressants, (I hate anti inflammatories ), but still this kind of drug is a life saver for others.
> 
> Yes it is hard to be turned down by the CF when you know that you can do a good job, but I think everybody has a chance to prove them wrong, in this case I think that taking a year to work on yourself and improve your resume, your experience and come back in a year with a stronger application and a year proof of mental health... is the best thing to do... the journey will only make you stronger. (I assumed that people are allowed to reapply after a year, please correct me if I am wrong, or if it depends on the case)



well most diseases you can cure but when you get into mental illness as its called its not something that can be cured but rather somehting that your told is incurable and always takes alot of time and money to reach the mental stability someone else says you need to have. Now if someone is suicidal they need help, if someone is violent has a history they need correction. If someone isn't careful and simply goes through a rough time and has negative thoughts goes into a psychiatrist or doctor they can be led to beleive things are such a way that it can make them more unstable. If someone has negative thoughts a physchiatrist actually calls those voices in your head.  Im not embarassed about my story cause its actually not all that uncommon. Again i haven't received back my medical from ottawa and my doctor is filling everything out and im sure i'll be accepted but the process is frustrating for someone who has no mental illness and tried antidrepressants just to see if they would help(make me feel better). Yet never continued for more than a month due to no improvement. It can be very frustrating when  I went in on my own volition just cause I thought hey this might help me. Again i am confident the acceptance will be. But the process is darn near hectic. 
Heck when I went in there the guy doing the medical exam looked in my eyes and started going off saying i was on drugs yet i've been clean for 10 years so its not as stable and well done with the right people as you portray. Its actually very disorderly. People in the army generally tend to think they are better. But I haven't seen that in peoples character.


----------



## GAP

You are thinking about yourself and what you want.....

Try thinking about the CF....

If anything happened (irrespective of what and when) and the media picked up on the previous history of depression then the entire CF gets tagged as hiring psychotic nuts. It isn't true in anyway what so ever, no matter which way you stretch it, but that has never stopped the MSM and the opponents of the CF from making wildass claims

It's kinda like the question "have you stopped beating your wife and kids?"  Try to defend that response......you lose, no matter what you say....


----------



## the_girlfirend

Unfortunately not evey mentally unstable person is diagnosed, and mental illness is very common.
Being in the forces is a source of stress and any unstable person will eventually have to deal with stress/anxiety/depression.
I understand that the CF is careful in hiering people with a diagnosed mental illness, because of the consequences it could have on the operations and security of the troops.
But if ones care about the imagine the CF is projecting, well, I am affraid wierd things will always happen... nobody has a tatoo psycho on the forehead, and there will always be a dumdum to do stupid things, we all know one  ;D

My point is, an intelligent human being with a known mental illness, can be more stable than an other intelligent human being with an unknown mental illness.
Because we know our limits, our reactions, our problems and we keep a balanced life and block the negative energy before it grows. We have been there, we have been down, we know how to get back up... it is a form of strenght that should be considered as maturity... 

My 2 cents


----------



## PMedMoe

JDA said:
			
		

> I find it absolutely ridiculous to deny access to the military for depression.



For one episode of depression?  Yes.  For a *diagnosed* mental illness?  No.

I, too, have been on anti-depressants, while serving.  I also found they did not help.  Perhaps a change as to what type of medication I was taking would have been beneficial.  I found St. John's wort worked quite well.  However, I was on medications for a single episode of stress.  People who need medication long-term or for the rest of their lives are likely going to be medically released.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

JDA,

First thing, you have to do is stop defending your depressed positon. Then you have to go read all the guidelines for this forum that you originally agreed to do when you clicked the box (without reading them) and start following them.

Lastly, you have to take control of your life and quit blaming everyone, and everything, for your outcomes and actions.

In between, you're preaching to the choir here. Lots have 'Been there, done that" and have more of an excuse for their feelings than some jam tart of a school teacher, or a dick weed of a boss, or some school kid that didn't make the football team, even after his dad even paid the coach. 

Many of us have had real world situations that have caused us to define ourselves
I suggest you do the same. You sound like you need a dose of real world reality, and soul searching, to sort your sorry ass out.

Please don't try join, and say you're going to cover my beautiful buttocks until you have your own mental house in order.

I don't know if it's spiritual, chemical or mental. All I know is that unless your condition turns you into a Norse berzerker, I don't want you anywhere me or mine, while we follow the direction of our government and carry out our mandate.

And you're in great position to stop complaining and do something about it, or waste and watch while your mind turns to mush, or go get help.

We can't do that here. We're not Dr Phil. Leave us alone until you get your shit sorted.


----------



## VAYACUADRO

Hi everyone,

Military has been around my whole life. I came from a military family back in my original country; and I was also part of the military down there, but the best part I never had any issue with depression or being a threat to anyone.  

I was diagnosed with a Mild Depression almost a year ago (related to my current job) and is now affecting my application to join the CF (my dream since a came to Canada, and cost me a lot to convince my wife to allow me to join the forces), and thanks to my current job (discrimination and racism issues due to my background - being the only one in my department with a Masters Degree, and being denied to go further into a better role, created a mild depression on me).

I was in Effexor for like 6 months, and out of anti-depressant since them.  Was a high dose 250 mg, but I do not have any other depression anymore.  My doctor gave me the clearance letter saying that was mild depression and my prognosis is good, and there is a low probability to re-incur into depression, then my question is:

I be able to join the CF as Navy Reserve as Logistic Officer? Hope yes, it is my life.

Answers are more than welcome guys.


----------



## aesop081

VAYACUADRO said:
			
		

> but the best part I never had any issue with depression or being a threat to anyone.



Your home country had its medical standards, we have ours. What your home country considered acceptable if of no consequence to the CF. 




> I being the only one in my department with a Masters Degree, and being denied to go further into a better role, created a mild depression on me).



You wont have any problems come PER season, i can see it now  :


----------



## Greymatters

VAYACUADRO said:
			
		

> I was diagnosed with a Mild Depression almost a year ago (related to my current job) and is now affecting my application to join the CF (my dream since a came to Canada, and cost me a lot to convince my wife to allow me to join the forces), and thanks to my current job (discrimination and racism issues due to my background - being the only one in my department with a Masters Degree, and being denied to go further into a better role, created a mild depression on me).



This is an interesting statement - you should take a closer look at your situation and define what exactly is causing your depression.  Is it actually your environment that is causing it, or is it your own personal perception?

If you truly believe that discrimination and racism are being directed at you, you should be able to define specific incidents that demonstrate this.  This includes how people speak to you, what they say, what you say, and what written comments are made (either formally such as on evaluations or in daily relations with co-workers/managers).  This in turn can be used as evidence to prove that it is occurring.  If you cannot pinpoint such things, then you are dealing with only a perception that it is occurring.   

Regarding education, how does your Masters cause discrimination and racism?  Is your background, experience and/or ethnicity a barrier, or is it your attitude that prevents being allowed to advance? Is the resulting depression caused by the toxic work environment, or is it caused by your expectations of a higher education giving you a red carpet to upper levels of employment?

There are lots of experienced members here who can advise on how to deal such a situation, but you need to define proof of it occurring first so that it can be dealt with...


_Edit - Looking back at what was said throughout the thread, I will also emphasize that my post is not equal to professional medical or legal advise, but these are the type of questions you would be asked on the human resource management side.  Consultation with medical and legal professionals can provide better advice and assistance, while my opinion is only based on HR experience and everyday common sense...   _


----------



## VAYACUADRO

Greymatters said:
			
		

> This is an interesting statement - you should take a closer look at your situation and define what exactly is causing your depression.  Is it actually your environment that is causing it, or is it your own personal perception?
> 
> If you truly believe that discrimination and racism are being directed at you, you should be able to define specific incidents that demonstrate this.  This includes how people speak to you, what they say, what you say, and what written comments are made (either formally such as on evaluations or in daily relations with co-workers/managers).  This in turn can be used as evidence to prove that it is occurring.  If you cannot pinpoint such things, then you are dealing with only a perception that it is occurring.
> 
> Regarding education, how does your Masters cause discrimination and racism?  Is your background, experience and/or ethnicity a barrier, or is it your attitude that prevents being allowed to advance? Is the resulting depression caused by the toxic work environment, or is it caused by your expectations of a higher education giving you a red carpet to upper levels of employment?



Greymatters,

Thx for your feedback, and you're right with some of your statements, it is a toxic environment (almost 50% of the people is out of that place due to depression, stress, and anxiety), but there is also problems with "politics" and people who is not prepare to take decisions, are been given opportunities to go up within the organization (there is people with the same background - from the same country - who are helping each other to move up - Director, and former employees shared the same ethnicity).

I have e-mails, specific phrases been told to me - with the dates, comments from managers, as well comments made towards my background (like thick accent, and comments like 'Ah you came from the Cocaine Kingdom' from customer as well other employees, plus other comments like 'due to your communications skills, it is difficult for you to reach other positions', all of this is with the Human Rights Commissions, and they are investigating.  But such issues are creating a toll on me, and I was diagnosed with Mild Depression.  Now my MD told that I am free of it, and I am also quitting my workplace.

My point is, Due to those facts and the issue that I had one case of Mild Depression (and I have all the proof of my statement), could my application to join the CF be rejected? I am not more into any anti-depressants.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

VAYACUADRO said:
			
		

> My point is, Due to those facts and the issue that I had one case of Mild Depression (and I have all the proof of my statement), could my application to join the CF be rejected? I am not more into any anti-depressants.



As has been stated time and time again, in this thread and other medical problem ones, we can't even give you a good guess on what you're asking. We're not the CFRC, Doctors or anything else that can answer your question. Follow the advice and go to the CFRC and ask them. They are the *ONLY* ones that can answer your question. We won't even speculate here anymore.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## krysta

This is so BS!!.... i went for my medical today and everything was perfect but i was given antidepressents like 2 years ago because i was stupid and in high skool and thought i had depression then realised 6 months in maybe i dont have it....so now i have to send a form into my doctor...which my doctor is five hours away and probably wont sign it saying anything cuz he would want me to come in.....oh goodie!


----------



## VAYACUADRO

Sorry my friends,

I did not want to speculate, or anyone to start speculating about nothing.  I was just trying to get an answer (as Charlie previously) on the only one medical problem that I have in my life.  My doctor wrote the note claiming was a Mild Depression, and I have low tendency of that to happens again, and that my prognosis is good.

I am trying to get into Logistics, as an Officer (DEO) for the Navy.  I got a BBA, ICB, MBA, and CSRC (and probably I will start a PhD soon).

Please, do not get me wrong, I was just looking to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

To everyone who provided answers, thanks for your feedback.


----------



## the 48th regulator

So you lost me.

What are you claiming is BS?


The fact that you did not find a Doctor in your new location, who could have transfered your files from your last Doctor
The fact that the CF, in doing their due diligence, has found you are unfit based on _your _ latest and outdated medical file
Or that your whole whiney rant is a load of bilge because you are too lazy to do the right thing, and you were just pre warning us about it before we read the diatribe

dileas

tess


----------



## krysta

well lets see first of all i live in petawawa...

the waiting list for a doctor out here is over 2000 and has not budged in over a year...so not too sure what doctor you think ill find out here

and i did fax the sheets to my doctor back home, but i know he will be too lazy to fill the forms out hiself and ill end up sitting in a clinic here for 5 hours then be sent to a phyciatrist to evaluate me for depression when i know i dont have it anymore!

thats my fucking problem, i have to wait because i was stupid 2 years ago!  im not crying in the corner cutting myself lol i have a nice life and everything i want just want a better job now.


----------



## Greymatters

krysta said:
			
		

> well lets see first of all i live in petawawa...



You'll need to be a bit more pro-active.  Did you try to get ahold of the Doctor's office by phone and ask his staff politely to help out with getting this sorted out...?


----------



## aesop081

krysta said:
			
		

> thats my fucking problem,



Thats just to god damned bad.

I was stupid 17 years ago or so and didnt pay attention in school. Because of that i couldnt go to university and didnt get the job i wanted. We all pay for our actions sooner or later.

You are aware of the problem,

You are aware of what the CF requires you to do

Get on with it


----------



## the 48th regulator

krysta said:
			
		

> well lets see first of all i live in petawawa...
> 
> the waiting list for a doctor out here is over 2000 and has not budged in over a year...so not too sure what doctor you think ill find out here
> 
> and i did fax the sheets to my doctor back home, but i know he will be too lazy to fill the forms out hiself and ill end up sitting in a clinic here for 5 hours then be sent to a phyciatrist to evaluate me for depression when i know i dont have it anymore!
> 
> thats my ******* problem, i have to wait because i was stupid 2 years ago!  im not crying in the corner cutting myself lol i have a nice life and everything i want just want a better job now.




sigh....

So let me get this right, as I do not want to be wrong.

You, being in Petawawa, actively searched for a Doctor and have had challenges looking for one. 

Your experience with your old doctor, is that he is lazy (Not because he may be overwhelmed with people who do things the right way), so therefore you are unhappy with the method that actions your needs.

You are angry because the system, that being the CF, won't acknowledge your situation, so you feel they should throw the rule book out the door just because of that ity bitty time, as you state _"i ws givenantidepressents like 2 years ago because i was stupid and in high skool"_.

Yep, yer right, I totally read you wrong.

Good luck in fighting the man that is keeping you down... :

dileas

tess


----------



## krysta

i called the doctors office and the nurse answered which is the doctors wife i told her i was about to fax the forms and she was like oh no you need to come in for that...and i was like no i live 5 hours away i just need him to write when i went on and stopped the prescription, and she got all rude and said well ill put it on his desk and we will see if he fills it out lol


----------



## krysta

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> sigh....
> 
> So let me get this right, as I do not want to be wrong.
> 
> You, being in Petawawa, actively searched for a Doctor and have had challenges looking for one.
> 
> Your experience with your old doctor, is that he is lazy (Not because he may be overwhelmed with people who do things the right way), so therefore you are unhappy with the method that actions your needs.
> 
> You are angry because the system, that being the CF, won't acknowledge your situation, so you feel they should through the rule book out the door just because of that ity bitty time, as you state _"i ws givenantidepressents like 2 years ago because i was stupid and in high skool"_.
> 
> Yep, yer right, I totally read you wrong.
> 
> Good luck in fighting the man that is keeping you down... :
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess




im not saying they should throw the rule book out the door because my situation, i understand its a rule, but to me 2 years ago was so long, im not even the same person, i can understand they need to be sure tho, it just sucks, having to wait more for a doctor that probably wont fill the sheet out that takes 2 mins


----------



## the 48th regulator

krysta said:
			
		

> im not saying they should throw the rule book out the door because my situation, i understand its a rule, but to me 2 years ago was so long, im not even the same person, i can understand they need to be sure tho, it just sucks, having to wait more for a doctor that probably wont fill the sheet out that takes 2 mins



Okay,

May I ask, what you were told when you went searching for a new doctor.

Being in Petawawa, there are numerous GP's there and in the surrounding areas that are closer than a 5 hour trek, I am interested in what you were told when you visited all of them.

dileas

tess


----------



## the_girlfirend

Hey Krysta!

I know how you feel, I have 4 forms to get my doctor to fill in... and I don't know what Ottawa will think about my file...
The only thing I know is what I want and what I can do to make it happen. 
Don't cry about what you cannot change just do the best you can.
It is part of the deal, it is part of life too... you better get used to it.

I know how you feel, but you should not let it get to you that much..


----------



## krysta

there isnt many doctors here at all, everyone goes to the same office to sign up for a doctor anywhere in the area, and thats when i was told about the rediculous waiting list. so i put my name on it. I talked to a girl i work with now that has a doctor and she said it was a 6 month waiting list to get in with her doctor for an appointment for the doctors regular patients unless your old or a child.


----------



## the 48th regulator

krysta said:
			
		

> there isnt many doctors here at all, everyone goes to the same office to sign up for a doctor anywhere in the area, and thats when i was told about the rediculous waiting list. so i put my name on it. I talked to a girl i work with now that has a doctor and she said it was a 6 month waiting list to get in with her doctor for an appointment for the doctors regular patients unless your old or a child.



So what you are saying, is that you did not actively go out and search for a GP, you went with what a girl from work told you.

Geez, I am sorry for questioning you. 

Why did you not tell this to your Doctor, and the recruiter?  They surely would not have given you the run arround.....

Sorry about that, you get a group hug from me too  

dileas

tess


----------



## krysta

wow im sorry you cannot read what i wrote...


there is only one place to go here to sign up for a doctor... the waitlist here is over 2000...so no doctors for anyone!

THE GIRL  i work with has a doctor because she has lived here her whole life, her doctor doesnt take any new patients as i found out for myself, and for a patient like herself it takes 6 months to get an appointment to see her own doctor

did i clarify that enough for you or shall i repeat it again


----------



## the 48th regulator

krysta said:
			
		

> wow im sorry you cannot read what i wrote...
> 
> 
> there is only one place to go here to sign up for a doctor... the waitlist here is over 2000...so no doctors for anyone!
> 
> THE GIRL  i work with has a doctor because she has lived here her whole life, her doctor doesnt take any new patients as i found out for myself, and for a patient like herself it takes 6 months to get an appointment to see her own doctor
> 
> did i clarify that enough for you or shall i repeat it again



Answer one question.

Did you go there, and ask for a doctor, or are you going from heresay?  And you are saying Pembroke and the surrounding area do no have one cliic with a Doctor that you VISITED to apply for a GP?

Is tha a clear enough of a question?

dileas

tess


----------



## krysta

ONCE AGAIN

there is one place alone in petawawa that has a list for new patients for any doctor out here...it has been at 2000 for over 2 years not budging...there is nothing i can do...

thats why the clinic has atleast a 5 hour waiting time for this small town


----------



## the 48th regulator

krysta said:
			
		

> ONCE AGAIN
> 
> there is one place alone in petawawa that has a list for new patients for any doctor out here...it has been at 2000 for over 2 years not budging...there is nothing i can do...
> 
> thats why the clinic has atleast a 5 hour waiting time for this small town



Once again.

What did they say to you, when YOU went in?  

Did you visit other Practisioners, that are closer than the 5 hour drive to your old lazy doctor?

See what I am getting at, I think there is more to your recruiting experience than a "blip" in your medical file.....

dileas

tess


----------



## krysta

i didnt go to a practitioner its just a general medical office that sends out new patients when i doctor is open in the area
everywhere around here is packed solid.


----------



## VAYACUADRO

Hey guys,

One question.  Will my medical file (my whole medical file) be disclosed (completely) to the CF in Ottawa?

Thanks again.


----------



## the 48th regulator

VAYACUADRO said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> 
> One question.  Will my medical file (my whole medical file) be disclosed (completely) to the CF in Ottawa?
> 
> Thanks again.



Yes

dileas

tess


----------



## the 48th regulator

krysta said:
			
		

> i didnt go to a practitioner its just a general medical office that sends out new patients when i doctor is open in the area
> everywhere around here is packed solid.



So you answered your own challenge.

You may want to invest a wee bit more time in sorting out your own affairs, before you claim that the system is BS, and your doctor is lazy.

I think you need to look in the mirror, to find the problem, and that is my prescription for your recruitment dilemma.

dileas

tess


----------



## Armymedic

krysta,
check the Centennial medical center on Civic Center road, up from the Shoppers drug mart.

They might be able to help you, atleast to get your file to there so someone can fill out your form.


----------



## krysta

Prairie Dog said:
			
		

> krysta,
> check the Centennial medical center on Civic Center road, up from the Shoppers drug mart.
> 
> They might be able to help you, atleast to get your file to there so someone can fill out your form.



thank you, that may be my next option now if my original doctor doesnt do it


----------



## Xx_Chuckles_xX

I'm going to the doctors today, picking up some medical forms the army gave me. They wanted to establish that my bouts of depression were not chronic, but situational. I think that's going to be one of the biggest challenges in my application process. Had depression/substance abuse issues throughout high school, quit the drugs, then had more depression after my father died. They said if the two could be separated & explained properly it shouldn't be that big of a problem. Still a little worried about it though.  :-\

I was honest about everything, didn't try to go around the issue. Figured it would come out eventually anyhow. But man, did I feel like an ass when that substance questionnaire was passed out! Everyone took like 5 min to complete it, I took like 15. But I'm clean now for 3 years, and I know it won't be a problem again. But yeah this medical part is freaking me out. My family doctor was so stoked I was signing up, I don't think he will make the letter bad.

Anyone else been in a similar situation? Probably making to much out of it, but yeah. I really want to be in the CF.


----------



## Marshall

Chuck Sourwine said:
			
		

> I'm going to the doctors today, picking up some medical forms the army gave me. They wanted to establish that my bouts of depression were not chronic, but situational. I think that's going to be one of the biggest challenges in my application process. Had depression/substance abuse issues throughout high school, quit the drugs, then had more depression after my father died. They said if the two could be separated & explained properly it shouldn't be that big of a problem. Still a little worried about it though.  :-\
> 
> I was honest about everything, didn't try to go around the issue. Figured it would come out eventually anyhow. But man, did I feel like an *** when that substance questionnaire was passed out! Everyone took like 5 min to complete it, I took like 15. But I'm clean now for 3 years, and I know it won't be a problem again. But yeah this medical part is freaking me out. My family doctor was so stoked I was signing up, I don't think he will make the letter bad.
> 
> Anyone else been in a similar situation? Probably making to much out of it, but yeah. I really want to be in the CF.



Man do not be too hard on yourself. Especially with the drug questionnaire.. When I went to the CFRC to do mine, 3 of the others that were there were writing away for many minutes while me and another were just slashing lines through most of it. You have been clean for 3 years, thats a good start and I am sure the medical staff will take it into consideration?


----------



## Xx_Chuckles_xX

Yeah I'm sure that you are right. I was honest with it all, that has to count for something.
Could have been worse I guess. Had a friend go there during the interview, and when asked why he would like to join the Canadian Forces his answer was "to shoot stuff, and blow things up". I don't think I mentioned weaponry in my interview at all haha.

I just needed to rant a little bit is all. Interview went really well, I think it will all work out. Just might take a little longer is all.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Marshall said:
			
		

> Man do not be too hard on yourself. Especially with the drug questionnaire.. When I went to the CFRC to do mine, 3 of the others that were there were writing away for many minutes while me and another were just slashing lines through most of it. You have been clean for 3 years, thats a good start and I am sure the medical staff will take it into consideration?



Be careful in answering for Medical and Recruiters you don't belong to either group and thus are straying outside your lane. Its great that you are offering encouragement and reassurance but be careful how you do so.

Milnet.Ca Staff


----------



## Marshall

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Be careful in answering for Medical and Recruiters you don't belong to either group and thus are straying outside your lane. Its great that you are offering encouragement and reassurance but be careful how you do so.
> 
> Milnet.Ca Staff



Thus my ? at the end hehe. Yeah I know it is not my place and thus I would not say anything misleading, just trying to reduce paranoia  ;D And I will be careful thanks.


----------



## missmague

Chuck,

I know this post is older, but how have things proceeded on your medical? 

I too was diagnosed with reactive depression (same thing as situational) twice. The first time when I was pregnent with my son at 17 -, without too much detail - I was a high school drop out - things didn't work with his dad, my parents split, etc. I had my son and went on anti-depressents. I was on for about six months.

The second time - about six years later - I went on again after my divorce from an abusive man (there was a lot more but that is this is without getting into details). This time I was smarter and got counselling to deal with the situation, fix my self-esteem, etc. I feel great even though I deal with my ex husband weekly given we have kids together.

Anyway I don't know yet what their opinion will be, but my medical is next Thursday. I am hoping that it works out. 

I have an appointment with my doctor tomorrow to see his opinion (I have never met him - my usual doctor has left her practice so it might make this difficult)

So I know your situation  - let me know how it goes for you and ill let you know my progress next week. 

Good Luck!!!


----------



## the_girlfirend

Hi missmague,

I now how you feel, I am currently waiting for Ottawa to make a decision regarding my anxiety issues.
I would like to warn you, you should expect some complications and you will have to bring back some more info regarding your condition from your family doctor.
In my case they even requested a psychiatrist evaluation!!!  ;D

Be ready for a journey full of ups and downs, and long periods of waiting, and it will probably take months for you to pass the medical.

I personally did not expect it to be so complicated... 
But I think that it only makes us stronger, you know if you wait 6 to 12 months before you can get in... 
I think it would be harder for us to submit a VR after a hard week of BMQ, because we know how long it was to get there.

Anyway if you want more info regarding my medical... here is the link 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/81604.0.html

And I think that the only thing I can suggest you, is to make an appointment with your family doctor right now for asap after your medical exam... there are so many delays in this process, when you can control them, make them as short as possible, and provide the most complete and detailed information or else they will only get back to you with more questions... and more delays...

Good luck and keep us posted


----------



## missmague

I have an appointment tomorrow with my family doctor and am planning on getting a letter from him regarding my past to bring with me to the medical. I know they will still probably want the form filled out but I like to take a proactive approach and the more in my file that supports my good mental health the better I think!

I think both this experience (having to fight to get in) as well as the experiences that caused the problems in the first place will do us well in our careers. I always view my experiences as what have made me who I am today. I don't regret going through any of them. I am a stronger person and know that now I can go through a lot and still make it - something I had issues believing before. 

I figure where there is a will there is a way - I will keep trying to get in until they finally give me an offer. I want this enough to go through whatever they require of me to get there. I will get there ;D 

Good Luck with your file, let us know how it goes


----------



## ftsmith

Good day and good luck all,

I have been reading through ALL the posts today regarding depression and anti-depressant precsriptions.
Whew!

I have called the recruiting centre and got the person who does the medical.  She was very helpful and told me she would be Purolatoring me out the "Family Doctor form" to be filled out.
I mentioned to her that I had a bout of depression and had been prescribed Wellbutrin & Celexa for a short period of time but that I have been off the pills for about a year now.  I am fine now.
She stated it "was more common than I think" when I told her I was worried about this.

What I NEED TO KNOW that hasn't been satisfactorily answered on these forums is: WHAT IS THE DEFERRAL PERIOD??
How long should I have been off this medication?
Does it hurt that I was even on this medication?
What if I had filled prescriptions but have not taken the pills?

Other than this situation, I am clear...I have never even broken a bone in my body...no alergies or diseases...great family history, etc.  (I don't even drink.)

This is my last step.  I have excelled at all other stages and the medical is the only thing left.  My interviewer said I could be off to BMQ quite quickly after the medical.

Any help will be appreciated.

Regards,
Fil.

Recruiting Center: CFRC Vancouver
Regular/Reserve: Regular
Officer/NCM: NCM

Trade Choice:  RMS Clerk   

Application Date: January 1, 2009 
First Contact: Febuary 1, 2009
CFAT completed: March 11, 2009 (Officer Qualified)   
References (3) called: March 14, 2009
Interview: March 17, 2009 (Was told I was the competition to beat)  

Medical:  April 08, 2009  (Worried about past anti-depressant use)

Listed: TBD
Position Offered: TBD
Sworn in: TBD
BMQ starts on: N/A


----------



## the 48th regulator

This is a question left up to the recruiting, medical staff.

With the amount of medication out there, and not knowing what yoou have taken it would be like asking the following.

_Hey all.

I just went to the local variety store.  I purchased some scratch tickets.

Now, I have purchased them before, however I have used Pennies, nickles and car keys to scratch them.

What are my chances of winning the big one?  Free ticket, or Play again?

Any help would be appreciated._

Get the gist of what I mean?

dileas

tess


----------



## ftsmith

I'm a teetotaller...sorry... 

I'm just sayin',  THIS IS THE ONLY THING PENDING FOR ME...and it's driving me nuts to think it could effect my going in.



C'mon...there has to be someone out there who has gone through the medical with past anti-depressant use....what happened????


----------



## the_girlfirend

Hey ftsmith,

I know how you feel!

I do not think that there is an official deferral period, the circumstances, and the recurrence of your depression and your present mental state are more important.

Some people apply to the CF when they are just out of a depression... people that have been off the medication for like 3 months have been told to reapply in a year. It is like telling them make sure you are stable and healthy in the long run and then reapply.

If you have been off the medication for a year and your doctor thinks that you are stable and healthy... it will complicate the medical process, but the point is, you just have to prove them that you are good to go.

I have been diagnosed with generalized anxiety... they requested a psychiatrist evaluation... and I proved them that I am stable and healthy and they accepted me. Generalized anxiety does not go away, you have to learn to live with it, and I proved them that I am living a normal life.

I would recommend you to stop seeing it as a barrier, start seeing it as a challenge. It is up to you to prove your point. Provide them all the documentation that they request, and as complete and detailed as possible. If the opinion of your family doctor is not enough, you might have to see a specialist... be ready to do it all!  :nod:


Good luck
keep us posted


----------



## ftsmith

Just got off the phone with the Med at VanCFRC.
She is sending out the form tomorrow (Friday).
She went over it with me...

Family Doctor to fill out:

-Psychological Diagnosis? With date(s)
-Treatment? ie. Medication(s)? Last Used?
-Is treatment ongoing?
-Has treatment been discontinued?
-Is there a risk of reoccurance?
-Does the family doc have any concerns?
-How are my coping skills and abilities?
-Can I handle weapons/explosives?

So all-in-all I think things will go smooth if I get this form filled and fax it back prior to my Medical on April 8th.

She was so helpful and encouraging.
I reccomend any and everybody to call your recruiting centre with ANY concerns you have.  They want you in as bad as you want in.

Good luck and good day.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

ftsmith said:
			
		

> She was so helpful and encouraging.
> I reccomend any and everybody to call your recruiting centre with ANY concerns you have.  They want you in as bad as you want in.



Thank you. That's exactly what, and why, we've reiterated here, on the site, hundreds if not a thousand times. :

Perhaps now that it comes from someone other than Mods and senior members, people will listen. 8)

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## radiogaga

Hello everyone! First post here...

I applied for the reserves, but on the medical I put down "depression".

This happened four years ago, according to my mum I was never actually diagnosed with it officially (I was 16 and my memory of the ordeal is bad.)--I did not realise this in the medical.

I went to see a counsellor like three times total, and it's a thing of the past, and I've been fine ever since. I remember it being a lot worse than it was, well, because I was a teenager. I never went on medication, never got suicidal--nothing.

I got the same form ftsmith is talking about in that last post, but there's a problem: I can't seem to find the woman who I went to talk to. I don't remember her name, I don't have any records, and she is no longer at the address at which I saw her. I'm in university now, and I don't have a family doctor... There's nobody that could be said to have been 'treating' me, and there wasn't really any significant treatment.

I don't know what to do now. In all honesty I should never have checked that box. Is there anything I can do about it? If I call the recruitment centre, will they think I'm crazy and trying to get around disqualification? Can I take a test or something to prove I'm fine? I'm a little stressed because I was really, really excited to do training this summer, passed my interview and this is the only thing holding everything up.


----------



## ArmyGuy99

radiogaga said:
			
		

> I don't know what to do now. In all honesty I should never have checked that box. Is there anything I can do about it? If I call the recruitment centre, will they think I'm crazy and trying to get around disqualification? Can I take a test or something to prove I'm fine? I'm a little stressed because I was really, really excited to do training this summer, passed my interview and this is the only thing holding everything up.



But you did check the box, and the PA would have asked anyways.  Honesty is the best policy at ALL TIMES.

I understand you are a freaking out a little about the form.  You are not the only person who cannot get ahold of whoever they saw 10 + yrs ago.  As you are in University, go to the Medical Clinic there and explain a little to the doctor, and ask if they'll fill the form out.  Too easy.

Good Luck


----------



## radiogaga

MedTech32 said:
			
		

> As you are in University, go to the Medical Clinic there and explain a little to the doctor, and ask if they'll fill the form out.



This was actually the first thing I tried... They refused because of the part that asked how long I've been treated by them  :-\


----------



## SiGoPsStewie

After searching the site, I have found no current posts in relation to previous depression and anti depressant usage. About 2 1/2 yrs ago I needed to go on a mild dosage of effexor for a specific work related issue. I left the position that was causing the stress but did not discontinue the effexor until just recently(1 1/2 - 2 months ago). I do not feel abnormal after weening myself of the effexor(75mg/day). I am quite happy with my new job (the past 1 3/4 years) and home life is excellent with wife and new baby. Could my history be a deterrent for my application process? My doc,. is on-board with me joining the reserves and is willing to write a letter of recommendation if needed. I am also willing to go for a psych. evalutation if needed; as I am not 100% sure if I was even clinically diagnosed with depression. Please provide some feedback. thank you


----------



## natalie23

Hi,

  I noticed a couple of posts about anti - depressants , and contacted a  recruiter but waiting on a reply ! Just over three years ago I was taking an anti depressant for about 3 months ! I've had a clean of bill of health since! Will I not be excepted because of this ?  Any replies would be greatly appreciated ! 

                    Thanks !


----------



## PMedMoe

Wait for the reply from the recruiter.  Every case is different:  e.g. How long were you on the meds?  What for?  (Please *do not* post those answers here!!)

Read some of the other threads where you saw the posts (use the search function in the Enrollment Medical sub-forum) and see other people's results/stories.

Good luck.


----------



## ufm101

hi I'm currently in the process of joining the forces. About 3 years ago i Had a depression with panic attacks and anxiety. I never toke any medication to cure it. I toke some therapy sessions with my doctor for 4 months and after that it was all gone. I never Had it back and i feel very good. My question is will I be disqualified because of that? My doctor said that it was just a period of teenage years. so do I still have a chance?


----------



## Vekk

Hey, how's everyone doing? I just had a couple questions in regards to the medical requirements of a MP Officer. Basically I am physically fit thats not my main concern I can do 100 pushups, 50 chinups both close-grip and wide-grip the rest is self explainatory running etc, I've been training for it. My concern is that I used to have depression about 2 years ago I was diagnosed with dysthymia which is a mild case of depression which has presisted for a large duration of time. This is mainly related to my performance in highschool etc, but now I am almost finished my Bachelors Degree in psychology and I haven't been on anti-depressants for 2 years been feeling great. My main problem was related to my performance in highschool, grades etc. 

Now my question is, will this previous history of depression disqualify me of having the opportunity of serving in the Canadian forces? I have recently applied for another career about 4 years prior to this post and that was before I knew what depression was and that I even had it. I decided before completing my medical examination to continue my education instead of serving as a NCM.


----------



## George Wallace

Vekk said:
			
		

> Hey, how's everyone doing? I just had a couple questions in regards to the medical requirements of a MP Officer. Basically I am physically fit thats not my main concern I can do 100 pushups, 50 chinups both close-grip and wide-grip the rest is self explainatory running etc, I've been training for it. My concern is that I used to have depression about 2 years ago I was diagnosed with dysthymia which is a mild case of depression which has presisted for a large duration of time. This is mainly related to my performance in highschool etc, but now I am almost finished my Bachelors Degree in psychology and I haven't been on anti-depressants for 2 years been feeling great. My main problem was related to my performance in highschool, grades etc.
> 
> Now my question is, will this previous history of depression disqualify me of having the opportunity of serving in the Canadian forces? I have recently applied for another career about 4 years prior to this post and that was before I knew what depression was and that I even had it. I decided before completing my medical examination to continue my education instead of serving as a NCM.



The medical requirements for a MP officer are exactly the same for anyone else joining the CF.  If you look into the forums on Medicals, you will find topics that cover "Depression" and "Antidepressants".  You may even find the topic of "dysthymia" already covered.


----------



## davtrcity

Hi my name is David i am 19years old and its my firts posting on this forum.

My question is about antidepressents, im taking this since like 1year ago and im on recovery way. I have more good days then bad days well im almost 100% restored. I would like to join the forces, but can i do with these pills?

Sry if i did orthographe faults im a french guy.


----------



## Flap Jack

The best thing to do is see a recruiter. They're the only ones that can tell you the right answer. 

Good luck!


----------



## davtrcity

If you know french go read this: http://www.mensongepsy.com/fr/?p=627  and say your opinion.   

If you cant read the page... well overall its say that the soldier in  Afghanistan take antidepressant ...  Dozens of Canadian troops in Afghanistan are taking medication to sleep or to treat depression and this situation may be more common



The military on treatment are monitored closely to ensure that their mental health problems and their treatments do not affect their performance, "says Lieutenant-Colonel Theresa Girvin, psychiatrist Canadian Forces currently deployed to the military hospital Kandaha


They already have depressive people in war so... say what you think about that


----------



## PMedMoe

And your point is?

It's one thing to treat soldiers for insomnia and use anti-depressants for a *short* time, along with therapy, etc to treat problems.  It is quite another thing to enroll someone who is on anti-depressants and has been for a long period of time.  I have a friend who was medically released from the military because they were on medication to control OCD and it was going to be long-term.

Oh, and BTW, insomnia is *not* depression.

As Flap Jack mentioned, go and see the recruiter.


----------



## the 48th regulator

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> And your point is?
> 
> It's one thing to treat soldiers for insomnia and use anti-depressants for a *short* time, along with therapy, etc to treat problems.  It is quite another thing to enroll someone who is on anti-depressants and has been for a long period of time.  I have a friend who was medically released from the military because they were on medication to control OCD and it was going to be long-term.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, insomnia is *not* depression.
> 
> As Flap Jack mentioned, go and see the recruiter.



Moe,

Can you quantify *short* time, and where, if available, it is directed please.

dileas

tess


----------



## PMedMoe

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Moe,
> 
> Can you quantify *short* time, and where, if available, it is directed please.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Tess, I can only speak from personal experience.  Two weeks maybe?  I really can't remember.  As far as your other question, not quite sure what you mean.  Did you mean is there an actual written direction?  I doubt it. 

Edit:  Oh sure, post a question and then go offline!  Is the game on?


----------



## the 48th regulator

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Tess, I can only speak from personal experience.  Two weeks maybe?  I really can't remember.  As far as your other question, not quite sure what you mean.  Did you mean is there an actual written direction?  I doubt it.
> 
> Edit:  Oh sure, post a question and then go offline!  Is the game on?



I'm still here.

Some anti depressants take 1-3 months to Adjust before proper effects take place, so I can't comment on your personal experience.

What I am trying to demonstrate, unless official documentation is available to give the person, it is best he see a recruiter who can direct him in the right places to find out the answers.

Anecdotes, and hazy personal experience does not really help.  It perpetuates myth, and strengthens stigmas.

There are many people in the forces that are able to meet the universality of service, that have been prescribed medication to deal with various OSI's and Mental injuries.  They have been on them longer that 2 weeks.

Still love you all the same  :-*.

dileas

tess


----------



## PMedMoe

Tess, I agree.  The poster was told to see a recruiter and then posted some article as if trying to refute the response by Flap Jack?  To show implied approval?  I don't know what was intended by it.  I also (in my last line) told him to see a recruiter.  My response was more towards the posting of the article than anything else.

Still love you too!!


----------



## medicineman

davtrcity said:
			
		

> Hi my name is David i am 19years old and its my firts posting on this forum.
> 
> My question is about antidepressents, im taking this since like 1year ago and im on recovery way. I have more good days then bad days well im almost 100% restored. I would like to join the forces, but can i do with these pills?
> 
> Sry if i did orthographe faults im a french guy.



Unless things have changed since I was last doing recruit medicals late last year, you won't get accepted until you've been off the medication and stable off of it for at least a year...you'll also need a letter from your prescribing physician reflecting this.

As for troops already in, guess what, they get sick too and need to be helped or treated - but they are already in and we're responsible for their health care once they're in, so we treat them.  We don't want to be continuing treatment for something that might worsen under the stresses of recruit school, that's why we wait a year to see how well you're handling life.

BTW - if you're in and being treated for something that isn't resolving or requires long term therapy and not improve, you might not be in for much longer -  people with long term mental health issues can and do get medically released because of those issues just the same as people with physical health problems.

Cheers.

MM


----------



## the 48th regulator

medicineman said:
			
		

> BTW - if you're in and being treated for something that isn't resolving or requires long term therapy and not improve, you might not be in for much longer -  people with long term mental health issues can and do get medically released because of those issues just the same as people with physical health problems.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> MM




If the injury hinders the Soldier from performing his duty, of meeting the Universality of Service.  Just like any other injury.

The type of injury has absolutely nothing to do with the decision of the soldier's future, it has to do with the Soldiers capability and limitations.

dileas

tess


----------



## Fishbone Jones

We're not talking about serving members. Stop the sidetrack.

We're talking about someone that wants to join and is taking meds or is diagnosed as having depression.

They have to see the Recuiter, for an answer. Full stop.

What problems or meds a serving member is having is immaterial to this thread, or to someone who has yet to be recruited. Start your own thread and discussion if that's the tact you wish to take

Bottom line, if you don't meet the standards for recruitment, because of meds or a condition, *YOU - DON'T - GET -  IN*!!

Locked.......again

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## scaron

Hi everyone,

	I'm actually in the process for a job in the CF. The only mistake in my case is the antidepressant that I take for a stress disorder. But me and my doctor decide to start the weaning of this medication. It would take probably around two month.

I would like to know if there are some people here who was already in this king of situation and how long 
should I wait approximately after my Antidepressants weaning to get a call from CF ?

Sorry for my English, I'm from Quebec and I don't really know how it looks like for english people who read this.

Thanks,
Sebastien


----------



## Michael OLeary

There are a large number of threads about antidepressant use on the forum, including some that discuss cases where people stopped taking them.

Start your search either with the site search engine or by using a targeted search in Google, like this one: site:army.ca antidepressants


----------



## tk_01

The belief that applicants with depression should be granted admission solely because some actively serving members could bear the same ailment is purely erroneous. Requirements are a paradigm, thus they're not subject to flexibility unless there are extenuating circumstances. Yeah it sucks to have an affliction, because of past traumatic events, or heredity, but life has never been rosy. Active members of the military who display depression do so after entering the forces, not prior. Therefore, it's not entirely respectful or fair to question the competency of active members, based on personal qualms.

With that said, I think the policies regarding past sufferers of depression could be a bit clearer. From what I've gleaned, the decision to permit a previously diagnosed applicant is conducted by Ottawa on a case by case basis. In order to verify that an individual is qualified, s/he needs to provide supplementary documentation certifying their competency and health, but even if an applicant is given a glowing report by their encumbent physician, it doesn't guarantee a green flag from Ottawa. I think the policies and stipulations concerning the inadmissibility of an applicant need to be addressed with a lot more clarity. For example, why is it that applicants can still be rejected even after being given a clean bill of health by the physician responsible for their diagnosis. Is there a minimum period of time that needs to be spent free of therapy, medications and symptoms in order to qualify? (The number seems to fluctuate between 6 to 12 months, but there's no concrete information available on this, apart from anecdotes.) Also, is the physician required to provide a letter, or actually fill out forms provided by the CFRC? (Again, the stories seem to differ on this). And finally, does one rejection due to a history of depression invalidate an applicant permanently, or are they eligible for another chance after a year? There are answers to these questions available on the board, but they lack consistency and clarity.

Though I understand the indignation and disappointment underlying the complaints that are being made against these disqualifications, some of the criticisms being made against CF members, and recruiting policies are not constructive, and childish at worst.

On the other hand, the policies regarding depression based disqualification could be a lot clearer. Anecdotes and inconsistent accounts don't generate much confidence in the system. The impression that mentally fit applicants are being denied a privilege, due to a stigma from the past belies their potential worth in the future. Applicants who are fit, and provide documents which certify their competency, but still end up being denied need to know why, and how they can come back with a viable chance. In addition, applicants who do have past depression need to know what the requirements are, and what kind of timeline they need to fulfil so they don't inundate the system with applications that are ultimately going to be rejected.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

See post #187


----------



## festealth

ftsmith said:
			
		

> Just got off the phone with the Med at VanCFRC.
> She is sending out the form tomorrow (Friday).
> She went over it with me...
> 
> Family Doctor to fill out:
> 
> -Psychological Diagnosis? With date(s)
> -Treatment? ie. Medication(s)? Last Used?
> -Is treatment ongoing?
> -Has treatment been discontinued?
> -Is there a risk of reoccurance?
> -Does the family doc have any concerns?
> -How are my coping skills and abilities?
> -Can I handle weapons/explosives?
> 
> So all-in-all I think things will go smooth if I get this form filled and fax it back prior to my Medical on April 8th.
> 
> She was so helpful and encouraging.
> I reccomend any and everybody to call your recruiting centre with ANY concerns you have.  They want you in as bad as you want in.
> 
> Good luck and good day.



I had a doctor that prescribed some meds I was taking to fill one of those forms out for me.  I didn't read it until I was about to hand it in to the recruiter, and apparently my doctor wrote down that I shouldn't:
-Psychological Diagnosis? With date(s) *Bi-polar*
-Treatment? ie. Medication(s)? Last Used? *On-going*
-Is treatment ongoing? *NA*
-Has treatment been discontinued? *NA*
-Is there a risk of reoccurance? *NA*
-Does the family doc have any concerns? *Yes*
-Can I handle weapons/explosives? *NO*

It's weird considering that I went to my doctor saying that I wasn't suicidal at all, and was just wondering if there was the possibility that there might be physiology imbalance that's causing me to be unmotivated, aggravated, sleeping all-day, etc.  I even told the doc that the whole thing might just be situational and the whole depression/bi-polar issue might just a shot-in-the-dark (better to be sure than unsure).

After being told by the recruiter that if I continued the application process, it would guarantee that I won't ever be accepted by the CF, and that my only option was to be off the meds for a year or two and reapply again with a clean slate.  Now, is there sometimes I can do to make my situation any better?  I mean I'm not saying my application should be sugarcoated per se, but having a doctor (not even my family physician or a mental health expert) to write-up how I'm completely unqualified seems a bit drastic.
Should I be getting a second opinion or just find a way to convince the doc that wrote up that report or anything?

Thanks


----------



## kincanucks

festealth said:
			
		

> I had a doctor that prescribed some meds I was taking to fill one of those forms out for me.  I didn't read it until I was about to hand it in to the recruiter, and apparently my doctor wrote down that I shouldn't:
> -Psychological Diagnosis? With date(s) *Bi-polar*
> -Treatment? ie. Medication(s)? Last Used? *On-going*
> -Is treatment ongoing? *NA*
> -Has treatment been discontinued? *NA*
> -Is there a risk of reoccurance? *NA*
> -Does the family doc have any concerns? *Yes*
> -Can I handle weapons/explosives? *NO*
> 
> It's weird considering that I went to my doctor saying that I wasn't suicidal at all, and was just wondering if there was the possibility that there might be physiology imbalance that's causing me to be unmotivated, aggravated, sleeping all-day, etc.  I even told the doc that the whole thing might just be situational and the whole depression/bi-polar issue might just a shot-in-the-dark (better to be sure than unsure).
> 
> After being told by the recruiter that if I continued the application process, it would guarantee that I won't ever be accepted by the CF, and that my only option was to be off the meds for a year or two and reapply again with a clean slate.  Now, is there sometimes I can do to make my situation any better?  I mean I'm not saying my application should be sugarcoated per se, but having a doctor (not even my family physician or a mental health expert) to write-up how I'm completely unqualified seems a bit drastic.
> Should I be getting a second opinion or just find a way to convince the doc that wrote up that report or anything?
> 
> Thanks



Okay now I am depressed.


----------



## aesop081

festealth said:
			
		

> but having a doctor (not even my family physician or a mental health expert) to write-up how I'm completely unqualified seems a bit drastic.



But if the same doctor had declared you completely fit for service, you would have been first in line to scream that his opinion was clear and irrefutable right ?

 :


----------



## medicineman

festealth said:
			
		

> I had a doctor that prescribed some meds I was taking to fill one of those forms out for me.  I didn't read it until I was about to hand it in to the recruiter, and apparently my doctor wrote down that I shouldn't:
> -Psychological Diagnosis? With date(s) *Bi-polar*
> -Treatment? ie. Medication(s)? Last Used? *On-going*
> -Is treatment ongoing? *NA*
> -Has treatment been discontinued? *NA*
> -Is there a risk of reoccurance? *NA*
> -Does the family doc have any concerns? *Yes*
> -Can I handle weapons/explosives? *NO*
> 
> It's weird considering that I went to my doctor saying that I wasn't suicidal at all, and was just wondering if there was the possibility that there might be physiology imbalance that's causing me to be unmotivated, aggravated, sleeping all-day, etc.  I even told the doc that the whole thing might just be situational and the whole depression/bi-polar issue might just a shot-in-the-dark (better to be sure than unsure).
> 
> After being told by the recruiter that if I continued the application process, it would guarantee that I won't ever be accepted by the CF, and that my only option was to be off the meds for a year or two and reapply again with a clean slate.  Now, is there sometimes I can do to make my situation any better?  I mean I'm not saying my application should be sugarcoated per se, but having a doctor (not even my family physician or a mental health expert) to write-up how I'm completely unqualified seems a bit drastic.
> Should I be getting a second opinion or just find a way to convince the doc that wrote up that report or anything?
> 
> Thanks



I have my doubts that the physician in question is going to risk their license and reverse their decision a week after the fact based purely on "I really want to get in and I'm not really that bad off".  You could go to a walk in clinic somewehere and hope that a sympathetic ear their might risk their license based on your say so, however, the RMO in Ottawa will take one look at the bottom part of the form that says "How long have you known the applicant?" with an answer that says "5 minutes" and put it in the "Sorry, nice try" basket.

On a less sarcastic note, if you really think you've been misdiagnosed by a primary care practitioner, I'd suggest going back to the one that made the diagnosis, and ask for them to consult you to a psychiatrist, ask them to fill out the form and ask for a copy of the consultation note to accompany it.  Find out how long it will take to get the appointment and ask that your file be kept open until that occurs.

I'll say again - it's nothing personal, it's just business.  No physician, based on their clinical judgement, is going to say "I think you're fine" when they think you aren't.  Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Good luck to you.

MM


----------



## Fishbone Jones

medicineman said:
			
		

> "5 minutes" and put it in the "Sorry, nice try" basket.



Any guess as to who makes those baskets?


----------



## mariomike

recceguy said:
			
		

> Any guess as to who makes those baskets?



"Occupational Therapy"?


----------



## medicineman

recceguy said:
			
		

> Any guess as to who makes those baskets?



Sounds like a song...

MM


----------



## festealth

medicineman said:
			
		

> I have my doubts that the physician in question is going to risk their license and reverse their decision a week after the fact based purely on "I really want to get in and I'm not really that bad off".  You could go to a walk in clinic somewehere and hope that a sympathetic ear their might risk their license based on your say so, however, the RMO in Ottawa will take one look at the bottom part of the form that says "How long have you known the applicant?" with an answer that says "5 minutes" and put it in the "Sorry, nice try" basket.
> 
> On a less sarcastic note, if you really think you've been misdiagnosed by a primary care practitioner, I'd suggest going back to the one that made the diagnosis, and ask for them to consult you to a psychiatrist, ask them to fill out the form and ask for a copy of the consultation note to accompany it.  Find out how long it will take to get the appointment and ask that your file be kept open until that occurs.
> 
> I'll say again - it's nothing personal, it's just business.  No physician, based on their clinical judgement, is going to say "I think you're fine" when they think you aren't.  Sorry, that's just the way it is.
> 
> Good luck to you.
> 
> MM



Thank you.

I wasn't expecting the original doc to "write something different" or anything.  I just wanted to make sure that if I do get a second opinion, that it might actually worth something, and not be reviewed like,
"Hey, one of this individual's doctor wrote something that wasn't too good.... *ignores other papers*.... oh well..." *Stamps DENIED*

I just don't want it to be like the "mark of death" or like that episode on Seinfeld where anytime something bad happens, the doctors made a note of it, and you (and the main characters) know that it's bad and will come back to haunt them.


----------



## calamityjoe

Sometimes suicidal tendencys can be a side effect from a medication... :blotto:
Wich means physicians can be realy cruel  ;D


----------



## 40below

medicineman said:
			
		

> I have my doubts that the physician in question is going to risk their license and reverse their decision a week after the fact based purely on "I really want to get in and I'm not really that bad off".


----------



## medicineman

Luckily, Dr Neeek is a cartoon character - if you were to take medical advice from him, you'd very soon be an extra in this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iDl2zwF8TM&feature=related.

MM


----------



## last_minute

I wanted to know if this seems weird to you guys here. 

A year  ago I started taking effexor 75mg a day for anxiety/, stopped after 4 months. I had started taking them because I had been sexual assaulted during college and one night I was drinking with friends and I went off the deep end and cut myself really badly(wasn't trying to kill myself, I was just really effin angry at myself). I told the med tech about all of it. He seemed really surprised (almost impressed) when he saw what I did to myself (kinda ugly, I plan on getting tattoos over the scars). But I don't think he marked down the cutting part in my file. He said he was going to recommend me as fit, he didn't even ask me to get a note from the doctor about the crazy drunken episode or pills, only for my vision.

He mentioned that he was only worried about the here and now, that he believed it was situational seeing as everything occurred during a 4-6 month span and that it was good that I went and tried to get myself help, both counseling and medical.

Was the guy trying to give me a break? 
From what I've read I thought my case was hopeless. Do I actually stand a chance of getting into the army?
-I did relatively well on my CFAT (37/60) and my interview went great as far as I know, that Capt. was one of the nicest people I have ever met.


----------



## medicineman

He may have been trying to give you a break, but my spidey sense says you might get a letter from the RMO asking for more information regarding this, due to the time frame.  Having said that, I've been wrong before.

MM


----------



## last_minute

Damn, I figured as much.
thanks.


----------



## medicineman

It'll come down to how the history was written - if all the bases were covered, might not happen, but I'd be prepared to get the letter asking for more info.

MM


----------



## last_minute

Well, I just got the call. I start BMQ in November.    

Guess it wasn't as hopeless as I originally thought.


----------



## Alea

last_minute said:
			
		

> Well, I just got the call. I start BMQ in November.
> 
> Guess it wasn't as hopeless as I originally thought.



This is great news. Congratulations  :nod:

Alea


----------



## medicineman

As I said, I've been wrong before  .

MM


----------



## Mudshuvel

Well this thread has been going on for a while...

I do have a question concerning the title of course, and like most of everyone here, I'm almost looking for a definite answer that I know I won't get until all my papers are sent, but as sad as some circumstances are why people are posting here, hopefully I could get some insight.

10years ago, my mother, God love her, sent me to see a doctor for depression. I was 15. So the doctor who could possible be seen as a friend to my mother, obliged and next thing I know I'm on Effexor, Seroquel (sp), Epival, Paxil, Celexa... my body was a pharmacy for three years.  I was in the psychiatric ward for a period of time, and this doctor that helped initialize this openly admitted that I was shafted. She admitted she was going off of my mother's word, which when it comes to a troubled teen is usually the right thing to do. Most of my depression was admitted to be caused by a chemical imbalance *from* the medications I was given rather that any clinically accepted diagnosis. Instead of being pumped full of medications, counselling could have probably fixed it all for me. When I turned 18, I stopped taking the medications since a parent could no longer force me to. I started working and in the 7years since personally stopping the medications (without withdrawal or anything) the only medication I had was for Clonasapam (sp) back in 2005 as a mild anti-anxiety pill because I was going through a breakup and job change. Now in 2010, I'm happily married, 2 healthy kids. Life is great. I'm interested in joining the Reserves as it has been something I've wanted to do for years. My uncle was in Reg Force and he was my role model growing up. I'm physically fit, mentally sound and my Doctor said he would not hesitate to write me a letter of recommendation. I spoke to a local psychiatrist who was a family friend as knew of what I was going through said the same thing. Mind you, these aren't physicians who would say I could handle a gun/explosives just because they know my family, they wouldn't risk their jobs for that. My uncle was a former recruiter and also encouraged me to do so. I'm not sure if anyone else has been through something similar and was accepted or not, but five to eight years off of pills, no need for therapy except for the off 'couple session'... well, would something half a decade or more ago with no relapse still have a great chance as hindering me?
Thanks for reading through my wall of text, Take care all.


----------



## BrandonM

Hey guys, it's my first time posting here, but I've lurked around a few times. I've got a small problem at the moment, which I'm fairly sure won't jeopardize my application in the forces, but I'd like a bit of input from someone with a bit more experience than me. 

So first off, I'm 16 years old. I currently have an application in the reserve for field artillery. Two or three summers ago I was hospitalized for a week for thoughts of suicide, depression, etc. I was put on antidepressants for about 7 months. I was then later placed on antidepressants last summer for about a week. After that week I discontinued use and changed my whole outlook on life. At times, I'll admit, I do feel down, but I'm sure every other human being has those off days. But overall, I'm doing a lot better. I put my application in approximately 4 months ago and I recently went to my medical exam and passed everything with flying colours, but I was told I need to go see a specialist and have them deem me "fit" for the military. So what I'm getting at is; I'd like to know, what are my chances of being accepted? Based on logic, opinion and personal experience. If there's anything else you guys need to know, I can fill you in.


----------



## Michael OLeary

You too can try searching the site with Google for answers before posting questions:

site:army.ca depression

site:army.ca antidepressants


----------



## micah

Hello,

This is my first time posting anything here, and I'm hoping I can get some advice.

I'm hoping to join the CF and becoming a Communicator Research Operator but I am wondering if seeing a counsellor would negatively affect my application?

I have been having some mild anxiety (nothing intense, I don't think it would affect my performance at BMQ or anything) and lately I have been thinking about going to talk with one of the counsellors here at my university, just to get some advice on how to manage it better. I don't want to go on medication nor do I think I would need to, but I'm just wondering if just seeking this kind of help would hinder my chances at all?

Thanks.


----------



## Mudshuvel

Hey Micah, welcome to the forums.

First, thank you for posting in the right thread. If you notice the post above yours, its mine, so I have a bit of an idea what you're going through.

Anxiety is normal. If you haven't had a history of it, it could be situational. If its a little more lengthy it could be something considered Adjustment Disorder.

Adjustment Disorder is technically situational depression or anxiety. It can be brought on by adverse situations such as job loss, issue as school, abuse... things that can be remedied by a change in lifestyle.

My question to you is, has something happened to you since your anxiety started? Job loss, issues with school, a breakup? Even quitting smoking can have an adverse reaction to your everyday anxiety level.

If you seek counseling, that shows that you identify you need some help with something and the fact you're taking quit ownership of it can actually look good when you speak to someone at the CFRC. It shows that you take care of your health rather than let it fester and get increasingly worse like I did. If you're prescribed medications, you'll have to wait a year after you are on them before applying. Everybody experiences depression or anxiety at some time. They won't refuse someone who spoke to a counselor after a divorce, and from the sounds of it, something MAY be having an adverse effect on your mood.

Good luck, I'm still waiting for my medical to clear, and it should and my med file looks a lot worse than mild anxiety that you described, but its different case to case.


----------



## Armymedic

micah said:
			
		

> I have been having some mild anxiety ....  but I'm just wondering if just seeking this kind of help would hinder my chances at all?



Anxiety is not depression.

What would be detrimental would be a MD's diagnosis of depression or an Anxiety disorder. 



edit: I fixed up the end quote box. OM


----------



## spanishflame

I do not want to be a jerk here, however... My boss is depressive, his boss is depressive, 3 other guys in the section are depressive. None of it is their fault. Life sucks, the military is unfair, their wives are up to no good. Every thing is to hard. Mean while all that seems to me to be caused by a bad attitude. Also a common point between those people is they joined for the situation, not the passion. The few of us who do not suffer from that condition are paying the price big time. We are actually carrying those people on our back. Just imagine the consequences of that on the mission. Or picture yourself in Afghanistan surrounded by depressive people. The good Corporal is going to pay for everybody else again. The military is not a caritative organisation. If you have issues in your life sort it out before joining. Do not join hoping it will help you.

No offence, I am sure you have something to contribute but make sure you do not become a burden for the organisation.


----------



## pharmdog

Hi all, 

I recently submitted my cf application and wanted to know what my chances are of getting an offer. 

I am a pharmacy student and applied for a Pharmacy officer position in the regular forces.

I was diagnosed with bipolar and ADHD early 2010 and have been on seroquel since. I was on ritalin for a few months but was taken off them as my condition improved and I no longer needed them.  

It is my suspicion that ADHD was a misdiagnoses and that my poor focus and concentration were temporary and stress induced. I might be able to get a letter from my physician stating so.

I haven't had any mental health problems since and I feel confident I can take on any and all responsibilities the CF might assign me as a pharmacist. 

My question is, as a pharmacy officer applicant are my chances of acceptance the same or higher given my diagnoses and the fact I do not intend to discontinue my seroquel medication. 

Thank you in advance.


----------



## Michael OLeary

pharmdog said:
			
		

> My question is, as a pharmacy officer applicant are my chances of acceptance the same or higher given my diagnoses and the fact I do not intend to discontinue my seroquel medication.



As we have told many others, none of us can give you a definite answer to how your medical issue will be viewed by the CF. We can offer a guess based on the results experienced by others who have come here with a wide variety of conditions (some or none of which may be the same as yours) which usually is that ongoing problems requiring medication may result in an application not being successful. The only way for you to know for certain is to go through the application process.


----------



## medicineman

To add to what Mike said, regardless of the MOSID being applied for, EVERYONE is held to the same, Common Enrollment Medical Standard.

MM


----------



## pharmdog

Thanks MM. That pretty much answered my question. 

Good luck to the rest of you on you applications.


----------



## madeofcourage

Hi,

I was misdiagnosed with ADHD. However, I do have mild OCD, bipolar, and general anxiety disorder; I assume I will be taking medications for life to manage my disorders (inherited). No human is perfect and most of us have some sort of mental disorder that is left untreated pharm or non-pharm methods. However, I'm working very hard to manage my life by taking medications and getting therapy on a regular basis. I still need to get my doses adjusted, but I believe I will get better. However, I called the medical staff at my local recruiting centre and one of the medical personel told me they do not allow applicants who take ANY antipsychotic medications and if they do, they must be off from them for one year before re-applying to the forces.

I've read this thread extensively and the only thing I can conclude is having to tell my entire story of misdiagnosis to being diagnosed with the disorders and having to work my *** off to manage my mental health.

It's ironic how the Canadian Forces doesn't allow applicants who take antipsychotics, but the soliders get PSTD after their experiences from the military/mission. They ultimately need some sort of treatment, wether the methods have to be pharm or non-pharm or both.

What do you think?


----------



## ModlrMike

I think that it's the applicant's responsibility to meet the enrollment standard. Once enrolled, any medical care including psychiatric care, is the responsibility of the Crown.


----------



## MJP

:goodpost:




			
				madeofcourage said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I was misdiagnosed with ADHD. However, I do have mild OCD, bipolar, and general anxiety disorder; I assume I will be taking medications for life to manage my disorders (inherited). No human is perfect and most of us have some sort of mental disorder that is left untreated pharm or non-pharm methods. However, I'm working very hard to manage my life by taking medications and getting therapy on a regular basis. I still need to get my doses adjusted, but I believe I will get better. However, I called the medical staff at my local recruiting centre and one of the medical personel told me they do not allow applicants who take ANY antipsychotic medications and if they do, they must be off from them for one year before re-applying to the forces.
> 
> I've read this thread extensively and the only thing I can conclude is having to tell my entire story of misdiagnosis to being diagnosed with the disorders and having to work my *** off to manage my mental health.
> 
> It's ironic how the Canadian Forces doesn't allow applicants who take antipsychotics, but the soliders get PSTD after their experiences from the military/mission. They ultimately need some sort of treatment, wether the methods have to be pharm or non-pharm or both.
> 
> What do you think?



That you just gave me a head ache trying to understand what you are getting at?

Seriously though the CF has an obligation to treat soldiers that DEVELOP conditions during their service and there in lies the difference between them and you.  We don't have the obligation to take you or anyone else with preexisting conditions.


----------



## Tow Tripod

Made of courage for the love of god please don't join the Canadian Forces. Without a doubt their will be an old pissed off Warrant Officer tasked to look out for your best interest while you whither away at a PAT/PAR platoon some place in Canada. Then 3 years down the road you will be released and you will not be any better off then when you joined. Thank you for your interest and turn away from the recruiting depot. Thanks!


----------



## madeofcourage

@MJP

Hi, I can clarify what's not understood (grammar?).



> It's ironic how the Canadian Forces doesn't allow applicants who take antipsychotics, but the soliders get PSTD after their experiences from the military/mission. They ultimately need some sort of treatment, wether the methods have to be pharm or non-pharm or both.



*I hope there is no misunderstanding here, of course antipsychotics is a great alarm whoever joins the army. What's im trying to say is, is it a case by case basis?*

In short, I'd like to join the reserves, but not the forces full-time. However, the medical staff doesn't accept people with meds regardless of the situation even though it's minor/mild. However, I read some applicants pass even though they are taking meds? Correct me if I am wrong here.

@Tow Tripod

Thanks for the helpful advise.  :


----------



## PMedMoe

madeofcourage said:
			
		

> *What's im trying to say is, is it a case by case basis?*



This comment:



			
				madeofcourage said:
			
		

> However, I called the medical staff at my local recruiting centre and one of the medical personel told me they do not allow applicants who take ANY antipsychotic medications and if they do, they must be off from them for one year before re-applying to the forces.



looks pretty cut and dried to me.


----------



## aesop081

madeofcourage said:
			
		

> @Tow Tripod
> 
> Thanks for the helpful advise.  :



It was good advise. You should follow it.


----------



## lethalLemon

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> It was good advise. You should follow it.



Ding ding ding!



			
				madeofcourage said:
			
		

> @MJP
> 
> Hi, I can clarify what's not understood (grammar?).
> 
> *I hope there is no misunderstanding here, of course antipsychotics is a great alarm whoever joins the army. What's im trying to say is, is it a case by case basis?*
> 
> In short, I'd like to join the reserves, but not the forces full-time. However, the medical staff doesn't accept people with meds regardless of the situation even though it's minor/mild. However, I read some applicants pass even though they are taking meds? Correct me if I am wrong here.
> 
> @Tow Tripod
> 
> Thanks for the helpful advise.  :



And for those that try to go "Well, it's not an anti-psychotic because I'm not psychotic, just depressed".... Newsflash, Anxiety disorders, depression, bi-polar disorder, OCD... (I could run up the whole medical dictionary) are all classified under Psychotic disorders and are therefore treated with anti-psychotics.

You become a liability if you enlist with those conditions. Nobody is there watching over your shoulder or holding your hand to make sure you stay on the meds, and the last thing the CF wants with your disorder(s) is to wean of your meds and with a weapon in your hands... and next thing you know you're either shooting others or yourself. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Reserves, Reg Force, and even the Cadet Instructors Cadre/COATS... you can't be on anti-psychotics. If you lie, not only will the CF find out, but you'll also be barred from ever serving again.


----------



## medicineman

lethalLemon said:
			
		

> Ding ding ding!
> 
> And for those that try to go "Well, it's not an anti-psychotic because I'm not psychotic, just depressed".... Newsflash, Anxiety disorders, depression, bi-polar disorder, OCD... (I could run up the whole medical dictionary) are all classified under Psychotic disorders and are therefore treated with anti-psychotics.



Ummm, most of those disorders you mentioned are actually classified as Mood Disorders and Anxiety Disorders...schizophrenia, brief psychotic disorder, things that cause psychoses, are psychotic disorders.  Many mood disorders are treated with antipsychotics in low doses because they help the person sleep.  People that are bi-polar sometimes get a wammy of them in their manic phases because they can become psychotic.  

To madeofcourage - if you have bi-polar disease, OCD, issues with major depression when you're enrolled, you're likely to continue to have them - major depression for instance has a greater than 50% relapse rate.  If you have true OCD, bi-polar disease, GAD, etc, the onus is on YOU to be able to prove to the CF that you're medically fit for enrollment.  The onus is on the CF to treat you if you become ill while working for us.  There is a big difference.

If you really want to get in, discuss this with your family doctor and your psychiatrist to try and get sorted out - in particular, you should ask if you even have a realistic chance of being able to function under stress with little or no sleep without mood stabilizers, since that's a stressor that will exacerbate many folks.  Oh, BTW, most people have some personality traits that are linked to a DSM-IV TR diagnosis of some sort - doesn't mean they have outright personality disorders.  If you were to look around here, you'd find most of us have mixed traits - that doesn't make us personality D/O's, just makes us personalities.

Good health to you.

MM


----------



## madeofcourage

medicineman said:
			
		

> Ummm, most of those disorders you mentioned are actually classified as Mood Disorders and Anxiety Disorders...schizophrenia, brief psychotic disorder, things that cause psychoses, are psychotic disorders.  Many mood disorders are treated with antipsychotics in low doses because they help the person sleep.  People that are bi-polar sometimes get a wammy of them in their manic phases because they can become psychotic.
> 
> To madeofcourage - if you have bi-polar disease, OCD, issues with major depression when you're enrolled, you're likely to continue to have them - major depression for instance has a greater than 50% relapse rate.  If you have true OCD, bi-polar disease, GAD, etc, the onus is on YOU to be able to prove to the CF that you're medically fit for enrollment.  The onus is on the CF to treat you if you become ill while working for us.  There is a big difference.
> 
> If you really want to get in, discuss this with your family doctor and your psychiatrist to try and get sorted out - in particular, you should ask if you even have a realistic chance of being able to function under stress with little or no sleep without mood stabilizers, since that's a stressor that will exacerbate many folks.  Oh, BTW, most people have some personality traits that are linked to a DSM-IV TR diagnosis of some sort - doesn't mean they have outright personality disorders.  If you were to look around here, you'd find most of us have mixed traits - that doesn't make us personality D/O's, just makes us personalities.
> 
> Good health to you.
> 
> MM



Very informative, thanks!


----------



## Scott

medicineman said:
			
		

> To madeofcourage - if you have bi-polar disease, OCD, issues with major depression when you're enrolled, you're likely to continue to have them - major depression for instance has a greater than 50% relapse rate.  If you have true OCD, bi-polar disease, GAD, etc, *the onus is on YOU to be able to prove to the CF that you're medically fit for enrolment.*  The onus is on the CF to treat you if you become ill while working for us.  There is a big difference.



And I know one chap who has been spending a lot of time and money trying to do just that. And he'd tell you it's not an easy road, a road he's still on.

Food for thought.


----------



## infantryian

While I don't bring the knowledge or experience that better men and women than I bring to these forums, perhaps my tale could be a little bit of help. *This is entirely anecdotal and in no way offers medical advice.*

    I have had my bout with depression and anxiety disorder and required medication to help treat myself. When I was placed on medication I was cautioned that a strict routine must be followed when administering the pills. When I missed a day I found that the withdrawl symptoms hit me fairly hard. Fast forward a couple years and I was able to take some steps to improve my outlook in life and be tapered off the medication entirely with the goal of joining the CF in mind. Even though I still believe that I could not have known enough to prevent what happened, the biggest change for me was just a diet and exercise improvement that lost me some weight, and improved my mood. As well I had to train myself to increase my mental toughness. If something went wrong for me a couple years ago I would shut down and become entirely nonfunctional, but by self training I was able to change that natural response to face whatever the problem was and tackle it head on. (and yes I was off medication for over a year, if you can't do that, perhaps another job is in order)

     During BMQ there is a lot of tough love thrown at you. The instructors don't hate you, and they certainly don't want you to fail, but they will intentionally put a lot of stress on you because they want to bring you up to the mental toughness standard that the CF requires. During my BMQ I was prescribed some antibiotics for an infection. I found it extremely difficult to take the medication on schedule because of the stress and the unstable nature of BMQ timings. Imagine you need to take some paxil right before bed, and at 10:30 you are told you have 30 seconds to be in PT gear. You then go for a 45 minute run and are absolutely bagged by the time you get back to your bed so you just collapse. That is just one dose missed, but the process repeats itself... and again... Now imagine that after a couple of days your minor illness has grown into a huge problem and you can no longer motivate yourself to get inspection ready. You aren't jacked up for this because the staff are too busy jacking up your buddies for not helping you enough. This is just BMQ. 

     What I have learned in my very short time with the CF is that BMQ is just the tip of the iceberg, and unfortunately the CF is not into hiring people who can survive BMQ, the CF is into hiring people who can be proficient at killing other people. The real soldiers have been there, and done that. Seen and done horrific things that I can't even begin to imagine. It requires a mental fortitude that is beyond a lot of people. If someone who is currently serving the country suffers emotional damage due to that work, then we owe it to them to help them in any way we can.


----------



## lethalLemon

medicineman said:
			
		

> Ummm, most of those disorders you mentioned are actually classified as Mood Disorders and Anxiety Disorders...schizophrenia, brief psychotic disorder, things that cause psychoses, are psychotic disorders.  Many mood disorders are treated with antipsychotics in low doses because they help the person sleep.  People that are bi-polar sometimes get a wammy of them in their manic phases because they can become psychotic.



Oh


----------



## TSpoon

Been reading through this thread for a while now and I hoped I could get some help/advice for my situation.I'm currently taking Effexor for some anxiety problems,but with my doctor's permission I've started to ween off the dose and will eventually stop taking it all together.I was wondering a few things 1)Are the medical standards the same for the reserve co-op program?(guessing yes) I won't have been off my meds for the 1 year-period they usually make you wait by the deadline for applications and I was wondering if there was even any point in applying to the co-op(obviously I really want to do it but considering the circumstances I might just be denied eligibility) and 2) If it turns out I can't do the Co-op should I wait the full year after I'm off the prescription to apply to the regular force or should I apply earlier and appeal and decisions they might make ? I sent the CFRC these same questions in an email about 10 days ago but considering the time of year I can understand why they have't answered it yet.Thanks in advance for any insight or advice.


----------



## PrettyMaggie63

Speaking from experience, appealing the medication issue is not an option. They have a list of medications that if you are/were taking, automatically make you ineligible.  You need to wait the year. The only option for an appeal is to challenge them on what medications are on the list. My advice, wean off the medication the appropriate way, wait the year, then proceed. It's a tough thing to do, but believe me, the year will fly by if you take that time and better yourself as an applicant. In the end, it will all be worth it.


----------



## TSpoon

PrettyMaggie63 said:
			
		

> Speaking from experience, appealing the medication issue is not an option. They have a list of medications that if you are/were taking, automatically make you ineligible.  You need to wait the year. The only option for an appeal is to challenge them on what medications are on the list. My advice, wean off the medication the appropriate way, wait the year, then proceed. It's a tough thing to do, but believe me, the year will fly by if you take that time and better yourself as an applicant. In the end, it will all be worth it.



Thanks for your reply.That does make the most sense in the grand scheme of things.Hopefully the meds im on now aren't on the list that would make me ineligible.Thanks again


----------



## Jiaming

Hello everyone,

I am considering joining the Canadian Forces as a Reservist in the near future, however one thing I am worried about is that I have had problems with depression/anxiety in the past. The bulk of my problems with this happened between the ages of 17-18. I am 22 now, however I still take a daily SSRI as I just haven't weened myself off of them. 

I have not experienced any depression for about 2 years and my anxiety levels are very, very minimal. I am planning to ween myself off of the medication (with doctor's help of course) before I submit any application for the Canadian Forces. My question is, will this past preclude me from enrollment in the Canadian Forces, even if I am not taking any medication and am symptom free?

Thanks in advance,

Ben


----------



## GAP

really?

 Would you hire someone who claims to not have a medical problem, but can't wean himself off the medication he was given for a problem?


----------



## Jiaming

GAP said:
			
		

> really?
> 
> Would you hire someone who claims to not have a medical problem, but can't wean himself off the medication he was given for a problem?



It is not that I can't ween myself off of the medication. It is that the medication is known to have withdrawal side-effects and my doctor has recommended me to do it with doctors supervision. My current job has involved quite a bit of traveling overseas meaning, I could not be supervised by my doctor while undergoing this process. However, in the coming weeks I will be returning to Canada permanently and will be going off of this medication.

Thanks very much,

Ben


----------



## Scott

Talk to a recruiter. Be prepared for bad news.


----------



## Jiaming

Ok, thanks very much for the info. That is basically what I figured the deal would be, but I thought asking here would be worth a shot. 

Again, Thanks very much.

Ben


----------



## Scott

What the fuck, you mean it's over? Just like that/ You're not going to tell us how _your_ case is different and how we are all wrong?

I'm impressed.

Good luck


----------



## Cdnleaf

Jiaming said:
			
		

> Ok, thanks very much for the info. That is basically what I figured the deal would be, but I thought asking here would be worth a shot.
> 
> Again, Thanks very much.
> 
> Ben



Good response as noted above.   Take your time with the SSRI withdrawal process, from experience (paxil) it can be a nasty ride.  Get to a recruiting center once you are SSRI and withdrawal symptom free, then commence the process / being mentally and physically fit comes first.  Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.  Good luck with the process, Dan.


----------



## rimi

Hello, it's the first time I'm posting here.
I went to the recruitment center today to talk about some aspects related to anti-depressants but they said they can't make me see someone specialized in answering medical questions. I tried to ask them and push the discussion a little bit, but they (there were like 3 people talking to me) said I would need to talk to my doctor. I would really appreciate if I can get some advice here before seeing my doctor.

The problem I have is that, about 4 months ago, I was seeing a psychologist because of issues related to school and not feeling motivated to study because I didn't know what I wanted to study. I already have a college technical diploma but I wanted to higher... to university. 
The psychologist suggested I see a doctor, and the doctor said I was depressed and needed medication. I bought the pills, but I never took them (still have them now). But during a follow-up, I told the doctor that I have been taking them for a week and plan on continuing ( I understand that it is my mistake). I did that to buy me more time to think if I really need to take pills; I was just kind of shocked that was I so bad that I needed pills (and this is the truth, 100%).

Now I'm meeting up with my doctor again, very soon, and I plan on letting him know everything; and how much better I feel having my parents support to take my time to figure out what I really want to study and if it takes longer to finish up my degree. I felt an obligation towards my mother who raised me alone,  to finish up my studies quickly and support her after.
But at this point, I don't know how to proceed. 

During the medical, they will for sure ask if I have been prescribed anti-depressants, so they will know I have been diagnosed with depression. But I feel a lot better now, and never took the pills. 
But, should I bring up the with the doctor that I want to join the army, or should I make follow ups and then talk to him about it? I don't want to him to get suspicious that I am just saying these things about feeling better because I want him to make a good paper the army. Because at one point, I'm going to have to tell this during my medical, and they will ask some documents from the doctor anyway, so I  might as well talk to my doctor first.
In the event that the doctor doesn't see me fit, which will probably result in a failed medical, what are my choices, and I done for , for the CF? 
I don't might getting diagnosed/evaluated by a psychiatrist (army or civil), at my own expense, to prove that I have no problems? do they do that in the army? Can I get evaluated by a third party and submit that report. 
I'm really worried about what will happen if the doctor still feels that I need the pills and I am still suffering from depression (which I'm not even sure that I even suffered in the first place).
Thanks all for reading.


----------



## elderly2

I have a fairly accurate reading of your situation or your mental set. I am like you, full of disappointments. But wait! There are other military or adventurous activities which you can enter in aside from the military. We have civilian RCMPs assigned to reconnoiteur "290A Danforth" (They have valid warrants of surveillance on these organizations, believe me). We have  CSIS where there is never a day that they don't lay memorial wreaths to their dead spies. YOu can enjoy the perks of jiujitsu to make you feel confident while you reconnoiteur. Gun licenses are offered in Lakeshore Road. YOu can master sniping while assigned to RCMP watching the mob. There is always an adventurous job waiting for you out there. I assure you, they are very very short on personnel and dying to get you like me.


----------



## aesop081

elderly2 said:
			
		

> I have a fairly accurate reading of your situation or your mental set. I am like you, full of disappointments. But wait! There are other military or adventurous activities which you can enter in aside from the military. We have civilian RCMPs assigned to reconnoiteur "290A Danforth" (They have valid warrants of surveillance on these organizations, believe me). We have  CSIS where there is never a day that they don't lay memorial wreaths to their dead spies. YOu can enjoy the perks of jiujitsu to make you feel confident while you reconnoiteur. Gun licenses are offered in Lakeshore Road. YOu can master sniping while assigned to RCMP watching the mob. There is always an adventurous job waiting for you out there. I assure you, they are very very short on personnel and dying to get you like me.



 :rofl:


----------



## the 48th regulator

elderly2 said:
			
		

> I have a fairly accurate reading of your situation or your mental set. I am like you, full of disappointments. But wait! There are other military or adventurous activities which you can enter in aside from the military. We have civilian RCMPs assigned to reconnoiteur "290A Danforth" (They have valid warrants of surveillance on these organizations, believe me). We have  CSIS where there is never a day that they don't lay memorial wreaths to their dead spies. YOu can enjoy the perks of jiujitsu to make you feel confident while you reconnoiteur. Gun licenses are offered in Lakeshore Road. YOu can master sniping while assigned to RCMP watching the mob. There is always an adventurous job waiting for you out there. I assure you, they are very very short on personnel and dying to get you like me.



Don't forget there is also THE LEGION OF FRONTIERSMEN OF THE COMMONWEALTH Canada, a fine bunch, indeed.

dileas

tess


----------



## elderly2

John Tescione said:
			
		

> Don't forget there is also THE LEGION OF FRONTIERSMEN OF THE COMMONWEALTH Canada, a fine bunch, indeed.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



This is better and demands lesser risk.


----------



## aesop081

elderly2 said:
			
		

> This is better and demands lesser risk.



http://www.pharmacy-online.ca/

Don't be shy.


----------



## Jarnhamar

> YOu can master sniping while assigned to RCMP watching the mob



Rabble has been down a day or two so their enlightened dramatis personae are just having a little fun.



For those of you with actual depression issues wanting to join the CF is admirable but it's not a good way for you to prove you can "do it".  Long hours, very stressful conditions. Sometimes disgusting conditions, I'll just throw it out there and say picking up body parts. Little or bad food at times. No sleep. getting moved across the country away from your family. A culture that makes it fairly easy to get caught up with alcohol. 
Really mentally and physically challenging stuff

Would you apply to a job at a casino if you had a gambling problem? Or a liquor store if you had a drinking problem?
I'm not saying the CF causes depression but you'll be exposed to a lot more depressors and emotionally charging issues than in most other jobs. 

 If you have issues with depression take a long and serious look at why you want to join. The military isn't a good place to get better, we're having a hard time helping people who develop problems- let alone joining with them.


----------



## Journeyman

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Rabble has been down a day or two so their enlightened dramatis personae are just having a little fun.


So they're upping their meds to deal with the loss _and_ posting here?  Great.    :blotto:


----------



## belalugosi

Hey people, 

I'm planning on applying to the CF this May. I'm 23. I took antidepressants when I was 19 for a few months for social anxiety/situational depression. After that I went a few years with no medication, no doctor visits, as it was all situational 
and really just a bad time in my life. Then this August my life fell apart after losing my job and my family Was concerned so they called the police on me and I was admitted as an in patient in the mental health ward of a hospital for 3 days because I self harmed as a coping device. 
The doctor who saw me there did not diagnose me with any mental illness and said it was all situational.

Basically I've had some hard times financially and with my.family that lead to situational bouts of depression. I've since gotten my life together and I'm not on any meds. It really was just some bad phases. Does my history seem like it would stop be from joining?


----------



## medicineman

You'd have to apply - at best you're going to need some letters for those involved in treating you in the past and currently looking after you.

Good luck.

MM


----------



## KaptainInsano78

I'm looking to join the army.  However, I have been treated for anxiety and depression.  I have never been diagnosed with either of these mental diseases.
Would the fact that I took medication get me rejected?


----------



## mariomike

KaptainInsano78 said:
			
		

> Would the fact that I took medication get me rejected?



This discussion may help.

"The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13192.0
11 pages


----------



## pointfiveoh

I'm not yet in the CF, but I do work in mental health services. It is very common for individuals to experience short-term depression. Approximately 1 in 4 men and 1 in 3 women will experience symptoms of clinical depression, only some will seek treatment, and of those, the majority will not actually be clinically depressed. The absence of hospitalizations, ongoing/recurring failed treatments, "NCR" convictions, use of anti-psychotics or mood stabilizers etc..., will certainly make your case seem less serious. We use the DSM and assessment tools based on it to observe risk of suicide or self-harm and this is very common practice, the CF likely uses a similar system. There's a big push about talking about mental health concerns, even with relation to the military, so if you did just that and got help it shows you knew when you need it, and never let the situation reach a level where it could become fatal. Some people get heat rashes, you go to the doctor, you get cream, it goes away. Feelings of depression in negative life situations are normal, everyone feels depressed at some point, some more than others, but rarely is a reported case of those feelings actually a clinical case of depression. Don't let this hold you back from applying, just be prepared to disclose the details of your situation and explain the improvements in your health since then. It wouldn't hurt to get a letter from your doctors or a previous counselor (should you have completed your treatment on good terms), and if you've been employed full time since, a letter of employment related reference can show youve been able to work without any serious mental health implications.

Again, I'm not in the forces, and nothing I've said is a guarantee, but from what I've learned working in the field I'm in now, this is what I know. 

http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/RecentUpdates.aspx - DSM-V and recent changes, some in depressive disorders and the difference between clinical depression and symptoms of depression, as well as bipolar depression and psychotic disorders.

EDIT: It is also notable that one has the right to know what is on their medical file, and you can ask your doctor to show you/explain the details. If you can, get a copy before applying. This way you're aware of what the Forces may discover, and can prepare to disclose any related information. For example, if you had a history of self-harm, it would be good to know what it says on your file regarding that as that may not affect you in the department of "Universality of Service," but a suicide attempt would. Another example, if you disclosed to your doctor feelings of depression over a particular incident, this may not affect you, but an active diagnosis of a "depressive disorder" likely would. If you are on medications, it may also affect you, depending what they are and if it's possible for you to function without them. It seems, though, that the best route would be to obtain a letter from your doctor clearing you of any MH diagnosis, and if possible, stating that they believe you are fit for service.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5023-1-eng.asp - CDN Forces UoS DAOD 5023 (pretty sure I also saw this elsewhere in this thread)


----------



## CombatDoc

pointfiveoh,

Is there a point to your post that revives a long dormant thread?  Exactly what type of work do you do in MH services?  I ask because you have posted information about topics which you clearly know little about e.g. your comment about a suicide attempt affecting someone's "Universality of Service".  

Since you are not in the military and appear to have only a superficial understanding of this topic, I recommend that you stay in your lanes.


----------



## pointfiveoh

The thread revival was a result of my browsing, but I'm sure I won't be the last to come across it. I work in a housing program for individuals with MH diagnosis, particularly with history of psychosis and/or depressive disorders. I also made it fairly clear that I was not a member of the forces and was simply sharing professional knowledge. My reference being the most commonly referred to series of documents in relation to this subject, the DSM. That being said, and my apologies if I'm incorrect, my interpretation of "perform duties under physical and mental stress" was that someone with suicide attempt(s) in their (possibly recent) past would be precluded from service without appropriate medical clearance. As I mentioned, this is just comparing official documents to my professional experience.


----------



## Loachman

That's nice, and I applaud your good intentions, but you are still giving advice that you are not unqualified to give. Please do not do that.


----------



## PMedMoe

Not to mention "work in a housing program" does not equal credentials.


----------



## pointfiveoh

When I go to work, I'm with my clients in their residential environment everyday. I talk to them more than their doctor does, not to mention observing their behaviours for the last two years. We are the primary support put in place for them and usually we're the first to come in contact with them in times of crisis. Not to mention I got into this position starting as on-site overnight crisis support. I'm hardly lacking in the credentials to discuss depression, Loachman's post is understandable, though.


----------



## Loachman

I credit you the experience working with people suffering from depression. I do not doubt that that gives you considerable insight. It's how that relates to the CF and recommendations that you were making in that regard that concern me.


----------



## pointfiveoh

Loachman said:
			
		

> I credit you the experience working with people suffering from depression. I do not doubt that that gives you considerable insight. It's how that relates to the CF and recommendations that you were making in that regard that concern me.



Sorry, I should of used the quote feature. My reply was meant for PMedMoe, I totally understand where _you_ were coming from with your post. That said, since were all here, was I fairly accurate (if not, where'd I miss) above? Just want to know for knowings sake, haha.


----------



## PMedMoe

I don't doubt that your interaction with these people gives you insight, as Loachman has commented.  That being said, I meant professional credentials.

At any rate, deeming what does or doesn't qualify someone from the CF enrollment standards is out of your lane.


----------



## Loachman

pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> Sorry, I _*should of*_ used the quote feature.



"Should have".

Also sorry - inner English teacher and picky staff guy.



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> That said, since were all here, was I fairly accurate (if not, where'd I miss) above? Just want to know for knowings sake, haha.



As you asked:



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> I'm not yet in the CF



And even if you were, you would not be qualified to give such advice. Somebody with recent experience making decisions regarding an applicant's mental fitness would be qualified, but would not likely do so without seeing the whole file, and would certainly not do so on an open forum.



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> The absence of hospitalizations, ongoing/recurring failed treatments, "NCR" convictions, use of anti-psychotics or mood stabilizers etc..., _*will certainly*_ make your case seem less serious.



"May" is a more valid claim. "May not" is also equally valid. Who knows?

Neither me, nor you, nor anybody else here.



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> There's a big push about talking about mental health concerns, even with relation to the military, so if you did just that and got help it shows you knew when you need it, and never let the situation reach a level where it could become fatal.



You fail to recognize the nature of the situations and environments into which we put people, and the effects of those situations and environments. Getting help may well be impossible. How would somebody "never let the situation reach a level where it could become fatal"? Many have not been successful with that, either during or after their tours. I have met at least one member of this Site, for the first time, at a mutual friend and colleague's repat and funeral and I do not wish to do that again. This is serious stuff. Really.



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> Some people get heat rashes, you go to the doctor, you get cream, it goes away.



Rashes can get pretty serious in austere environments. Mental issues can become fatal. There is no brain cream to make them go away.



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> a letter of employment related reference can show youve been able to work without any serious mental health implications.



"Able to work without any serious mental health implications" in an austere location where people are being killed and horribly mutilated? Including one's friends? Where no treatment or "normal" outlet is available? When food and living conditions suck, and adequate hygiene and rest are sorely lacking? What civilian employment can compare to that?



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> from what I've learned working in the field I'm in now, this is what I know.



Indubitably, but that's not _*this*_ field.



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> a letter of employment related reference can show youve been able to work without any serious mental health implications.



Again, what civilian employment can compare?



			
				pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> Another example, if you disclosed to your doctor feelings of depression over a particular incident, this may not affect you, but an active diagnosis of a "depressive disorder" likely would. If you are on medications, it may also affect you, depending what they are and if it's possible for you to function without them. It seems, though, that the best route would be to obtain a letter from your doctor clearing you of any MH diagnosis, and if possible, stating that they believe you are fit for service.



This is a little better, but requiring medications is a disqualifier.

We have a duty to care for our members and, to a lesser degree, applicants. This includes keeping applicants out, if there is a possibility that they could harm themselves at some point. Part of that is due to responsibility for them as individuals, and the greater part is for the others who could be placed in jeopardy because a colleague suffering from depression or something else, controllable or not in a "normal" civilian environment, kills him/herself or becomes ineffective in a life-or-death situation.

We'd not likely recruit somebody who's had a heart attack, either. A civilian company may well hire that person, but we could not, as a problem has been demonstrated.


----------



## pointfiveoh

All excellent points. There's a bunch of stuff I could reply with, but this made it pretty obvious why everyone says just talk to the recruiter (or in this case, appropriate medical staff). I was going to say "well someone who simply disclosed to their doctor they were feeling depressed may not be any more likely to have suicidal ideations than someone who keeps it to themselves," and then it hit me, this is why they assess things on a case by case basis.


----------



## Journeyman

pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> .....and then it hit me, this is why they assess things on a case by case basis.


And that insight only took _four_ straw-clutching posts on your part from your original, unqualified 'advice.'  Excellent.  :not-again:


----------



## Loachman

pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> and then it hit me



There may be some cream available for that.


----------



## cupper

pointfiveoh said:
			
		

> and then it hit me



Maybe you should consult a qualified medical professional :nod:


----------



## the 48th regulator

I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts

dileas

tess


----------



## ModlrMike

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Thanks! Now that's going to be stuck in my head for days. 


Maybe some antidepressants might help.  >


----------



## Loachman

Or cream.


----------



## pointfiveoh

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxepin#section_1

I had to   :


----------



## londonknight87

I am looking at applying for a job in the NCM. After a car accident when I was 16 I was diagnosed with a GAD and PTSD.  While these conditions are rarely present these days I am 25.  Would I still be able to apply?  I am an anti_depressent/anxiety medication called Cipralex and I have plans on stopping it within a year with permission from my doctor.  I also take ritalin on aneeded basis such as school days.  And while PTSD is always on my record I don't think it really reflects who I am todayy.  I am in good physical health and just love learning. If. So my question is, is this a no go? Or do I have quite chance


----------



## Delaney1986

I am not a doctor, current CF member (just an applicant), etc...

That being said, having issues with anxiety and depression, especially with PTSD in your past CAN put you into a higher risk category for suffering Operational Stress Injuries while serving in the CF. Since all soldiers are required to meet Universality of Service, concerns with anxiety/depression - especially when medication is involved, could reasonably complicate your application. There is all sorts of research about the side effects and potential dangers of withdrawal from certain medications as well. From the extensive Medical that is required it's clear the CF is pretty proactive about identifying any potential problems that could arise from any medical conditions you have. This is just from my own research and studies about OSIs, other applicants that have had trouble with their applications for this reason, etc. 

You can still apply despite all of this - and I would greatly encourage you to speak with a recruiter if this is really something you want to do! Anyone can apply, and the worst they can say is "no". If they do, then if your plan is still to try and come off of your medication, medically supervised, then try reapplying in the future. Ultimately it is up to Ottawa whether they reject the medical or not, so there probably aren't many people on here who can give you a definitive answer.

There are quite a few threads about this same topic as well though. Try the search function and see what comes up. Also, someone smarter and more experienced than me may weigh in as well.

Good Luck with everything you do!!


----------



## mariomike

londonknight87 said:
			
		

> I am an anti_depressent/anxiety medication called Cipralex and I have plans on stopping it within a year with permission from my doctor.  I also take ritalin on aneeded basis such as school days.  And while PTSD is always on my record I don't think it really reflects who I am todayy.  I am in good physical health and just love learning. If. So my question is, is this a no go? Or do I have quite chance



Some discussion here you may find helpful.

The Recruiting Office > Enrollment Medical > The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13192.25


----------



## The Bread Guy

mariomike said:
			
		

> Some discussion here you may find helpful.
> 
> The Recruiting Office > Enrollment Medical > The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13192.25


And merged

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## Tristonarcand1010

Hello. I just came across this thread and I thought it was appropriate to post a question here rather than creating a new thread. To begin I'm at the age of 31 and I plan on applying for the military this summer but my question is this. I was in a vehicle accident in the summer of 2003 and I ended up traumatized for a short period of time. I had to visit a mental health psychiatrist and she did a diagnosis and came to the conclusion that I was bipolar. This was the first time I was diagnose with bipolar. Anyways, I was prescribed lithium for 3 months then I stopped taking them because I believed I didn't need more. But the problem was this. I never told my psychiatrist when I stopped using them. Years later I was binge drinking and I got in trouble with friends and family and they contacted the police to escort me to the mental health clinic for 3 weeks. To my surprise my psychiatrist said I was depressed and she prescribed me lithium again which I only took for 3 months. Again I never told her that I stopped taking it after 3 months. Then in 2009 I applied for the Canadian armed forces. I went through all the application and selection process. I passed my aptitude test with high scores but when the results came for my medical test I received a letter stating I had 'recurrent depression in 2008' because of my binge drinking and trouble with family friends. So I decided not to join the army. Years later I decided I really want to join and believe I am mentally fit. So in 2012 I talked to my psychiatrist for the last time. I had a long discussion with her about my future endeavours and she said I would have to take a new kind of medication called 'Olanzapine' for a year in order to be sure I'm not diagnosed with a serious kind of long term bipolar disorder. So I agreed to take the medication. Its been a year already and I decided to wait 6 more months just to be sure the Canadian forces medical doctor doesn't decline my application due to immediate joining after taking medication. To be on the safe side will 6 months be long enough for me to pass my medical test or should I wait? 

Thanks in advance

Triston


----------



## ModlrMike

Firstly, only Recruiting can give you the answer you seek.

Secondly, from my experience doing recruit medicals the history you've shared here would be incompatible with military service. Ordinarily one has to be off medication for a year or more. You must prepare yourself for a negative response to your application.


----------



## Nudibranch

Agreed with above, but more. The diagnosis of bipolar disorder is incompatible with service period, and will result in release if you do manage to get in somehow and it's found out later.


----------



## Tristonarcand1010

Thanks for the quick response. I'll be sure to walk down to the registration office and inquire more information. As for the waiting period I'm prepared to wait for a year and 6 months after taking medication.


----------



## mzrousseau

Hey all,

So a little bit of back story to give context to my question. I'm 19 now, I have been on the anti-depressant fluoxetine, common name prozac, twice now. Once was from 13 to 14, and then again from about 17 to present. I have never been suicidal or a danger to myself or others in any way. Originally it was for major issues with my father as a child, but the second time I believe it was from feeling a lack of direction in my life. I always seem to be at my worst when I have no direction or objective. I have always had high grades in school and I graduated high school at 16 and finished my 3 year general science degree this year. I never had to work hard for those grades and I spent most of my time just coasting through life. This led to being overweight and bored throughout my teenage years. 

Three months ago though, I decided enough was enough and that I would make something of myself. I started looking into joining the CF and the more I researched it the more I could just feel it inside that this is where I belong and what I want to dedicate myself to for the rest of my life. Two months ago I got LASIK surgery to get rid of my glasses for my dream of becoming a pilot. I already talked to the recruiter about LASIK and I know that I have to wait a full year before applying with a doctors note for my eyes. I started at 280 pounds and in the past 2 months I've dropped to 251. I have been going to the gym 3 times a week for weight training and 3 other times for cardio as well as watching my eating. 

At the end of August I spoke to my doctor about getting off the prozac and we agreed the best way to go would be to wean me off. As of last week I am no longer taking any anti-depressants and I feel better than ever. I have been dedicating myself to getting in shape and searching for volunteer opportunities and finally feel like I have direction in life. 

As I was browsing through some forums the other day I noticed someone from the US say that having a history of anti-depressants will cause your application to be declined. Is it the same for the CF? These past 2 months have been some of my best and I literally don't go a day without browsing forums for information or learning all that I can and every time I work out I push myself just a little bit harder with the thought of being able to join in a year.

Taking into consideration that due to my eyes I would not be able to be accepted until September of 2014 and that I will have been off my anti-depressants since the end of September 2013, is my dream of joining the CF just a pipe-dream? Will my past issues prevent me from joining?

Thank you for reading my wall of text and taking the time to answer me. I will attempt to go to the recruiting office in my city tomorrow between work shifts if I can get access to transportation to see what information they have for me there.


----------



## DAA

Wow!  The first thing that comes to mind is "Good for you!" for taking charge of your life and trying to get to a place that makes "you" comfortable!

Regretably, your question can't be answered here.  Anything that has to do with possible "medical issues" can ONLY be addressed by the Medical Staff at your local CFRC and only after you have submitted an application and commenced the actual processing.  So don't count yourself out!!!

If Pilot is your occupation of choice, then the LASIK will have an effect, there is a waiting period, off hand I don't recall exactly what it is but I am sure someone will point this part out.

If you feel that you are ready to apply, then go ahead and do it!  You have nothing to lose......other than kicking yourself later on in life for not at least trying!


----------



## mariomike

More discussion here you may find helpful.

Recruiting > The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13192.0.html


----------



## sarabcjt

I have been treated for depression in the past . Havent been on meds for about 2 years. I was only treated for a year. Was wondering if I still would have at getting in the navy with my husband. Any input would  be appreciated.


----------



## mariomike

sarabcjt said:
			
		

> Any input would  be appreciated.



Some discussion of the subject here.

Enrollment Medical > The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13192.0


----------



## Bizzig

I have my medical in a few days, and I'm just looking for input. I am taking citalopram (celexa) for anxiety issues I had in the past. Now, I know they will question if I still suffer from issues. Given that I do not, I am wondering if they I will be disqualified because I am still on the medication? Or will they simply have me go to my doctor to be examined? I was on reddit where someone told me I have to be off medication for 2 years to pass the medical.

I'm just afraid of something that isn't an issue ruining my chances at a great career.


----------



## Bizzig

I have my medical in a few days, and I'm just looking for input. I am taking citalopram (celexa) for anxiety issues I had in the past. Now, I know they will question if I still suffer from issues. Given that I do not, I am wondering if they I will be disqualified because I am still on the medication? Or will they simply have me go to my doctor to be examined? I was on reddit where someone told me I have to be off medication for 2 years to pass the medical.

I'm just afraid of something that isn't an issue ruining my chances at a great career.


----------



## The Bread Guy

sarabcjt said:
			
		

> I have been treated for depression in the past . Havent been on meds for about 2 years. I was only treated for a year. Was wondering if I still would have at getting in the navy with my husband. Any input would  be appreciated.





			
				Bizzig said:
			
		

> I have my medical in a few days, and I'm just looking for input. I am taking citalopram (celexa) for anxiety issues I had in the past. Now, I know they will question if I still suffer from issues. Given that I do not, I am wondering if they I will be disqualified because I am still on the medication? Or will they simply have me go to my doctor to be examined? I was on reddit where someone told me I have to be off medication for 2 years to pass the medical.
> 
> I'm just afraid of something that isn't an issue ruining my chances at a great career.


LOADS of information prior to your posts now that they've been moved into the appropriate thread - read, and learn.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## The Bread Guy

Bizzig said:
			
		

> I have my medical in a few days, and I'm just looking for input. I am taking citalopram (celexa) for anxiety issues I had in the past. Now, I know they will question if I still suffer from issues. Given that I do not, I am wondering if they I will be disqualified because I am still on the medication? Or will they simply have me go to my doctor to be examined? I was on reddit where someone told me I have to be off medication for 2 years to pass the medical.
> 
> I'm just afraid of something that isn't an issue ruining my chances at a great career.


Welcome to Army.ca, Bizzig.

I'm sure you've read the rules of the road here, which include the concept of "spamming" as, among other definitions, posting the same thing over and over again in different threads.

There's a search function for a reason - your question's been dealt with before.  Search, read and learn.

This is your first *friendly* warning.  More spamming from you = less access for you around here.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## Bizzig

My apologies. I realized I posted in the wrong thread, and couldn't figure out how to delete the previous post. Wasn't intentionally spamming.

I have searched and read lots, and received many differing answers. My medical is on Thursday, so we'll see. If I have to wait for a year, I'm fine with that. Just means more time to prepare and learn new skills. Thanks.


----------



## Nudibranch

Bizzig said:
			
		

> I have my medical in a few days, and I'm just looking for input. I am taking citalopram (celexa) for anxiety issues I had in the past. Now, I know they will question if I still suffer from issues. Given that I do not,



Honestly, until you're off the medication that's supposed to control the issues, no one can tell if you "still suffer from issues." But you have a great attitude about the likelihood of being told tthat you have to wait. Good luck to you!


----------



## Mudshuvel

It is roughly a minimum of a year after you last take the medication. Celexa may be a mild seratonin inhibitor, but regardless, one year. Work *with* your Medical Practitioner on the best course of action for removal from the medication and sorting out the issues you are experiencing, then at that point look at applying. Once you're ready, you will be asked to have your doctor fill out a form clearing you fit, and you will be required to provide that during your application.

Good luck.


----------



## medicineman

Mudshuvel said:
			
		

> It is roughly a minimum of a year after you last take the medication. Celexa may be a mild seratonin inhibitor...



Hate to be pedantic, but it's not a serotonin inhibitor...it's a serotonin reuptake inhibitor - a big difference actually.

MM


----------



## CombatDoc

medicineman said:
			
		

> Hate to be pedantic, but it's not a serotonin inhibitor...it's a serotonin reuptake inhibitor - a big difference actually.
> 
> MM


Don't apologize - be pedantic on medical issues!  Maybe it will help keep folks with limited insight and knowledge about the medical system in their lanes.


----------



## dapaterson

Meh.  The moment they declared them to be STIs instead of STDs the medical community jumped the shark.  >


----------



## PMedMoe

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Meh.  The moment they declared them to be STIs instead of STDs the medical community jumped the shark.  >



 :nod:

You have a soft tissue injury where??


----------



## cupper

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> :nod:
> 
> You have a soft tissue injury where??



Well, it sure as heck couldn't be a hard tissue injury now could it. ;D


----------



## medicineman

cupper said:
			
		

> Well, it sure as heck couldn't be a hard tissue injury now could it. ;D



It was at one point  ;D

MM


----------



## Emilio

I just wanted to say this to the people weening themselves of anti-depressants. 

PLEASE BE CAREFUL, just because you want a career in the CAF doesn't mean you should put yourself in harm.

I only say this because a very close friend on mine, whom I have known for most of life decided to walk in front of a semi-truck in the hopes of killing himself. 

No one ever knew he was depressed and his suicide came as a tremendous shock as we were all in high school. So my point is if you do have thoughts of suicide please tell someone.

People might not notice your suffering.


----------



## M_Smith

Hello, this is my first post here and I hope I don't mess anything up.

So I have a bit of a problem, and I did not see a similar question asked in this thread or when I searched. Basically I am looking to apply for the Reserve Forces in Saint John, I have yet to apply as I wanted to speak with a recruiter first and I have not been able to contact him. The problem is that about 5 years ago I was going through a fairly tough bout of depression as a result of outside stress. That is to say I had no friends in school, my sister was doing a lot of drugs and getting pregnant causing a lot of stress on the family, and I was having a existential crises trying to reconcile my religious beliefs with my sexuality. The end was result was that I started cutting myself. It's a fairly embarrassing thing to admit, but at the time I didn't feel as if I had another way to release stress. I should note at this point that I was never suicidal, because I know self injury and suicide are often thought to be related. This went on for a period of about four to five months until I realized it was only dragging myself down deeper, so I stopped and never looked back. However I still have a lovely collection of scars on both my arms that are incredibly visible unless I wear long sleeve shirts.

This was back in grade eleven and I'm 23 now, so it's been a while and I've matured a lot. I know at some point the scars are going to be noticed and questioned. The thing is though I never actually went to see a pysch for my depression, and I read that it might be counted against me considering my scars. So my question is firstly; should I see a psychologist to get a clean bill of mental health before applying/going in for medical? and secondly: When would be the best time in the application to broach the issues? I don't want to hold off talking about it, and make them think I was trying to hide the issue, as I know that would just be bad news.

Any advice would be a great help, and I thank you for taking the time to read this even if you do not reply. If these questions have been answered in other threads then I apologize in advance.

M_Smith


----------



## Tristonarcand1010

I need information to cheer up on. I'm not asking for information that is accurate or professionally. And I'm aware I'll find the answer once I talk to the medical doctor at the Canadian Forces recruit center. I just need some heads up before I speak to the recruit psychologist. Anyways, I've done a re-evaluation on my medical record at the hospital regarding my history with a particular bi-polar disorder. As many of you already know; you can't enroll in the military while diagnosed with any kind of high profile depression (bipolar I, bipolar II etc.). The doctor looked at my medical file and compared it to my evaluation. Her personal opinion was I'm not bi-polar but undergoing through a stage of depression. But consequently its not in her profession to make the call saying that I'm not bi-polar because she needs a third party opinion (in this case the military psychologist). Of course everyone goes through some kind of depression whether its loss of family member, drugs, etc. I just hope some kind of low level depression wont prevent me in becoming a pledged member of the Canadian Forces. Any personal stories or scenarios regarding depression and enrollment would be really appreciate it. I hope this topic will enlightened other and not just for myself.

Thank you for reading.

Triston Arcand


----------



## Nudibranch

Just a head's up, you will not speak to a military psychologist, much less have some kind of assessment by one. At the recruiting center you will speak, most likely, to a Physician's Assistant who will take a history, do a basic general medical exam, and prepare your file to be sent on to the higher medical authority to make the decision re: medical suitability.


----------



## medicineman

Nudibranch said:
			
		

> Just a head's up, you will not speak to a military psychologist, much less have some kind of assessment by one. At the recruiting center you will speak, most likely, to a Physician's Assistant who will take a history, do a basic general medical exam, and prepare your file to be sent on to the higher medical authority to make the decision re: medical suitability.



Just a heads up - a personnel selection officer, of which most major CFRC's have at least one, generally have at least one if not 2 pscyh degrees - kinda makes them a psychologist.  Also, a general medical exam does in fact include a basic psychiatric screening whether you realize it or not - as the Med Tech, PA, MO, you're asked to comment on emotional, thought and behavioural patterns you note while examining the person, as well as any extra direct pscyh screenings you feel that need doing.  There are some people that come in that get your neck hair up and you follow up on that as you go through the interview and exam - I've picked up more than my fair share of psych disorders doing a recruit medical that were pretty subtle until I started pushing buttons.

MM


----------



## Nudibranch

medicineman said:
			
		

> Just a heads up - a personnel selection officer, of which most major CFRC's have at least one, generally have at least one if not 2 pscyh degrees - kinda makes them a psychologist.  Also, a general medical exam does in fact include a basic psychiatric screening whether you realize it or not - as the Med Tech, PA, MO, you're asked to comment on emotional, thought and behavioural patterns you note while examining the person, as well as any extra direct pscyh screenings you feel that need doing.  There are some people that come in that get your neck hair up and you follow up on that as you go through the interview and exam - I've picked up more than my fair share of psych disorders doing a recruit medical that were pretty subtle until I started pushing buttons.
> 
> MM



That's fine, but not what this OP apparently thought would happen - _"The doctor looked at my medical file and compared it to my evaluation. Her personal opinion was I'm not bi-polar but undergoing through a stage of depression. But consequently its not in her profession to make the call saying that I'm not bi-polar because she needs a third party opinion (in this case the military psychologist)."_

The personnel selection officer, regardless of the number of degrees they have, will not be re-evaluating the OP's medical diagnosis, much less giving an opinion as to whether the dx of BD should be changed to MDD. The OP will not be given a clinical/diagnostic psych assessment (structured interview). She'll be given a basic screening, like anyone else off the street, and since she already has a diagnosis, medically she's beyond the "screening" stage. Screening is to find something you don't know is there. She's looking for a diagnostic 2nd opinion, and neither the personnel selection officer nor the PA will be providing anything like that.


----------



## A_Bancroft-Roy

Hi there! I am a 20 year old woman diagnosed with depression and am on anti depressants. I have been wanting to join the CF to be a Water, Fuels and Environmental Technician. However by the looks of it on this forum I probably wouldn't be recruited?


----------



## KGB123

Good day all, I applied in August and have recently received a letter stating I was medically unfit due to being diagnosed with chronic dysthymia (chronic depression). In April 2013 I spoke to my doctor due to feeling overwhelmed with child custody court hearings, financial stress, marital stress, adjusting to becoming a family of 4 as I have birth in February, and my mother had an onset of illness. All that said, the psychiatrist prescribed me cytalophram which I infact never took, however put it in my application as it was prescribed. I went back to my doctor and he has since cleared me and stated in a letter that my symptoms were situational and I'm in remission. What are the chances they reconsider?


----------



## PuckChaser

Considering you have a letter from your doctor, I would say they'll at least look at your file again.


----------



## Nudibranch

They might, but no one here will be able to give you the odds.

Was it the psychiatrist who diagnosed, and the family doc who now says you're cleared? In general, if you have a specialist diagnose, the best thing is for the specialist to write the follow-up as well. 

It has to make sense too - situational depressive symptoms or adjustment disorder is not at all the same as dysthymia, which is a chronic condition in which symptoms must persist for at least 2 years to make the diagnosis. So the diagnosis of dysthymia in Apr and a follow-up of "sx were situational" 6 months later sounds a bit iffy, and remission of symptoms of dysthymia doesn't "clear" you (you still have dysthymia, but possibly are functioning well for now since the acute situational stressors have resolved - which also puts you at risk of relapse if you're stressed again, and military life can be stressful). 

Best thing for you is to go back to your doc (and psych) and really nail down what the correct diagnosis was. If you were misdiagnosed and it was completely situational and the psych is willing to write a letter to that effect, it'll be in your favor (although never a guarantee that they'll reconsider the decision). If it was the proper diagnosis and you're in remission, your chances are likely much lower.


----------



## medicineman

KGB123 said:
			
		

> Good day all, I applied in August and have recently received a letter stating I was medically unfit due to being diagnosed with chronic dysthymia (chronic depression). In April 2013 I spoke to my doctor due to feeling overwhelmed with child custody court hearings, financial stress, marital stress, adjusting to becoming a family of 4 as I have birth in February, and my mother had an onset of illness. All that said, the psychiatrist prescribed me cytalophram which I infact never took, however put it in my application as it was prescribed. I went back to my doctor and he has since cleared me and stated in a letter that my symptoms were situational and I'm in remission. What are the chances they reconsider?



They will reconsider based on that letter...but nobody here will guarantee what they'll say at the end of the day.

MM


----------



## KGB123

The psychiatrist who diagnosed me, back in april, has wrote me a letter, 3 days ago, stating... I have not taken any meds, back in April, he had thoughts and wondered about symptoms of depression and anxiety and some cluster b personality traits. However also stated that in retrospect much of it seems to have been situation as I was dealing with a number of issues, including a court case that lasted just over 2 years. He states my symptoms are in remission at this time and I do NoT meet criteria for any paychiatrict conditions presently.


----------



## AveeRed

So I was wondering about my situation... I just passed my aptitude test last week and qualified for all my jobs (Yay!!) The only concern I have no is my medical... Last year my doctor suggested I go see a psychiatrist... I was having trouble in highschool and still dealing with the death of my uncle so I was having a rough time... So I went to see him and within the first session he said I had depression and I should be on medication. I figured he knew exactly what he was talking about and I just wanted to get better so he prescribed me Risperidone and Citalopram..  Very low doses of each, 0.5 mg and 1.0 mg of each respectively. So I continued with the medication and I went for monthly visits to see him and everything was going fine. I then started eating healthier and exercising regularly and I started feeling even better than before. So after about 3 months, I talked to my doctor and asked her if I could slowly stop taking the medication and see if exercising and eating better would be enough for me. She said we could try it so I talked to my psychiatrist and he agreed so within a month I stopped taken both pills. It's been about 3 months since I've taken then and I've never been happier. I can admit I still have some low days but I've found healthier ways to cope with my feelings rather than just want to give up. I decided to finally join the CF since I finally feel like I'm healthy enough for it, but now I'm just concerned I won't pass my medical because of this... Anyone know what might happen?


----------



## dapaterson

Your file will go to a military medical professional.  That military medical professional will conduct an assessment, and may request additional information from your doctors.

As I am not a military medical professional and do not have the specific details of your situation or of the current policies, I'm in no place to assess.


----------



## EmmetF

I was sent a letter regarding my CEMS and was rejected on the basis of me having a history of depression on the basis that it was ongoing. When I mentioned it to the medical staff in CFRC they gave me a DND 2770 to fill out, and I went to see my doctor.  He said he wanted to follow up on it, but I insisted he fill it out  (impatience on my part :. He filled it out saying that followup was required and the reemergence of symptoms was unknown.  I goofed up and I sent that one to CFRC, then called saying I would send another DND 2770 after the followup I had with my Doctor later that month.  The DND 2770 he filled out during the followup stated that I was at low risk, treatment had been discontinued, followup was not required, I had excellent coping skills and that I was in "excellent mental and physical health." I believe that the wrong DND 2770 was sent to Ottawa, and my recruitment has been rejected, pending if I appeal it or not(which I will) and I will not be able to re-apply until next January. 

I am going to go to go to the closest CFRC and try to start the appeals process tomorrow. Any input on how I should go about my appeal in the most efficient way possible, how I should approach my re-application next January(if it comes to it) or generally when I'll be able to be enrolled would be great guys.  This has definitely put a bit of a chink in my morale but I'm not going to be deterred. 

Cheers!


----------



## BlueDuck

If you file a redress, you need to have it State clearly you have had no sign of depression or need of meds for 1 year and that your Dr feels you are fit to train. They will probably reassess and pass your file at that one year mark, whether it needs to be backdated or X months in the future. I took antidepressants with Antepartum depression, hormonally based that disappeared even before the birth of my son. I had to wait one full year off meds, even though I had been depression free for a few years. Even if you are taking any drugs like Zoloft for other, non-depression health reasons... Aka insomnia, hormone balance etc... You have to be off that class of drug for ONE YEAR.


----------



## The_Falcon

HUGE thread on this topic.  Seek information, there.  This is locked until I get to real computer and can merge.


----------



## EmmetF

Somehow I didn't see this thread when posting int he other section  : sorry 



> I was sent a letter regarding my CEMS and was rejected on the basis of me having a history of depression on the basis that it was ongoing. When I mentioned it to the medical staff in CFRC they gave me a DND 2770 to fill out, and I went to see my doctor.  He said he wanted to follow up on it, but I insisted he fill it out  (impatience on my part :. He filled it out saying that followup was required and the reemergence of symptoms was unknown.  I goofed up and I sent that one to CFRC, then called saying I would send another DND 2770 after the followup I had with my Doctor later that month.  The DND 2770 he filled out during the followup stated that I was at low risk, treatment had been discontinued, followup was not required, I had excellent coping skills and that I was in "excellent mental and physical health." I believe that the wrong DND 2770 was sent to Ottawa, and my recruitment has been rejected, pending if I appeal it or not(which I will) and I will not be able to re-apply until next January.
> 
> I am going to go to go to the closest CFRC and try to start the appeals process tomorrow. Any input on how I should go about my appeal in the most efficient way possible, how I should approach my re-application next January(if it comes to it) or generally when I'll be able to be enrolled would be great guys.  This has definitely put a bit of a chink in my morale but I'm not going to be deterred.
> 
> Cheers!



From the other thread I started, again, any input would be awesome, having a bit of a struggle getting my mind wrapped around it at the moment.


----------



## medicineman

It's actually simple to wrap around - the rules are that if you were treated for depression, you must be stable and off meds for a year.  BTW, the doctor isn't to write on the form what you want them to - it's what's on your chart and their experience with you that's to be commented about.  I've seen that a lot from both sides of the fence.

Good luck.

MM


----------



## DnentonSg

By the looks of it what I have read on this forum and in this thread, it seems like many people  do successfully get off their medications for X amount of years, get their forms signed by their doctors stating that the doctor(s) believe that the applicant is okay to serve in the forces however the medical staff in the CF still deny the applicant. Why is that?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Because not everyone thinks that Doctors are all-knowing Gods................


----------



## medicineman

snasd17 said:
			
		

> By the looks of it what I have read on this forum and in this thread, it seems like many people  do successfully get off their medications for X amount of years, get their forms signed by their doctors stating that the doctor(s) believe that the applicant is okay to serve in the forces however the medical staff in the CF still deny the applicant. Why is that?



It could simply be that we're only hearing their side of the story - there are often some other comorbid conditions that go with their primary mental illness, like drug abuse/addictions, personality disorders, etc. that some people choose to accidentally on purpose leave out in their posts.  Also, if the person was on/off meds a few times for their depression, odds are they will be back on at another time - again not likely to get enrolled.

As has been noted previously in this and in many other forums, the CF does not have an obligation to give someone a job.  There are  enrollment medical standards in place and if you fail to meet those enrollment standards, you don't get a job - pretty simple.

MM


----------



## EmmetF

medicineman said:
			
		

> It's actually simple to wrap around - the rules are that if you were treated for depression, you must be stable and off meds for a year.  BTW, the doctor isn't to write on the form what you want them to - it's what's on your chart and their experience with you that's to be commented about.  I've seen that a lot from both sides of the fence.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> MM



I am stable, as vouched for by my doctor. I was on meds for about 2 weeks, before asking my doctor if I could stop, he said yes.  I have not been on meds, or seen a counsellor for over a year and a half. I think this may have been a case of my own impatience and getting paperwork mixed up as I said here



> He said he wanted to follow up on it, but I insisted he fill it out  (impatience on my part :). He filled it out saying that followup was required and the reemergence of symptoms was unknown.  I goofed up and I sent that one to CFRC



I'm guessing it is because of this, rather than the form filled out by him stating that I have been "depression" free since 03/13, causing the problems. I am trying, though, to prepare myself for the worst in this case, in that they rejected me for the reason of it being it simply happened at some point in my past.



			
				Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Because not everyone thinks that Doctors are all-knowing Gods................



I hear that. I believe that my Doctor mis-diagnosed me.  I was in need of support to help develop healthy coping tools during a stressful period of my life.  3 trips to a counsellor of the course of 2 months gave me the tools I needed to continue succeeding in school (as per what was ailing me at the time).  I was one of many prescribed meds by a GP, not a psychologist. I would place myself firmly in this category, and would never touch an anti-depressant again! All that happened was I dealt with side-effects and then the resulting withdrawal symptoms. 



			
				medicineman said:
			
		

> Also, if the person was on/off meds a few times for their depression, odds are they will be back on at another time - again not likely to get enrolled.



I was not, but



> As has been noted previously in this and in many other forums, the CF does not have an obligation to give someone a job.  There are  enrollment medical standards in place and if you fail to meet those enrollment standards, you don't get a job - pretty simple.



Point taken.  

I do not believe I am entitled to a position in the Canadian Forces, but has been a goal of mine for quite some time, so this is still unsettling. Time will tell how it will unfold for me, but in the mean time I'm kinda just looking for as much information, and getting as much input on it as I can for now, just so I know what I can expect, and what is going to be expected of me.

Thanks for the replies guys


----------



## fshtooth87

I am wanting to apply to the reserves to start, looking at applying in 2015

My question is, 2 years ago my mom passed, long with that  lost my job due to the company slowing down, hit financial issues etc etc and was pretty down. Was having trouble sleepin etc etc. I went and saw a doc to get something to help m sleep and such. I ended up leaving that office diagnosed bipolar and he put me on lithium. I was on it for a month and it totally buggered me, I gained weight, made me sik. I quit the pills and life went back to normal and I was fine. I have spoken to nurses and another doctor and they said that the doctor was totally out of line putting me on something like that. He should have sent m for testing, psychologist etc etc if he thought I was bipolar. I have never had issue before or after that. Since that is on my medical file, will that ruin my chances when applying? would t help if I had a doctors note saying I was misdiagnosed?

Any help and input would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Gunshark

Best to go to the recruiting office and explain your situation, and go from there. Just give it a shot, and you will know. If you were misdiagnosed, I would guess you will be fine.


----------



## Vell

*Edited out. I probably should not express what will likely happen, regardless of if I am correct or not.*

The only people who can tell you for sure is the medical office. You can call your recruiting office and request that you talk to the medical office staff directly even before your actual medical (they will be able to provide you with more specific information than here and may even be able to provide you with the specific form(s) to have filled by your doctor before your actual medical to save you some processing time down the road).


----------



## mariomike

fshtooth87 said:
			
		

> I ended up leaving that office diagnosed bipolar and he put me on lithium.



This may help.

The Depression / Anti Depressants Merged Thread  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/13192.0


----------



## The_Falcon

also friendly reminder, if you are NOT CAF medical staff, then you should not be offering your OPINION on what may not happen, medical wise during the recruiting process.


----------



## StuffNThings

Hi. I applied to the Primary Army Reserves about 9 months ago. I did excellent on the aptitude, and I passed my physical. I did not get in because I was on medication for depression. My depression was due to a situation, and not some permanent imbalance of a neurotransmitter in my brain.  I have been off my medication for a year. Once I had gotten out of my situation & with medication I improved significantly. I am now in my second year of university, I feel no different than if I had been on my medication.
I have also been in army cadets. I know it is nowhere close to the actual reserves, but when I was depressed I completed the expedition instructor course( we did a 2 day solo and 18 day expedition, and of course at camp we had daily inspections etc.). And that was the happiest time of my life. Even though they yelled at us and made us do PT, I was happy. 
Also my depression was mainly just a lack of energy and being unmotivated to do stuff. But I'm good at forcing myself to do things. During expo we did a night hike, I completed it.
Once again  know its nothing like the reserves, but if I could complete that much while being depressed, and my depression wasn't really a emotional issue just a energy issue, then doesn't that mean I should be fit to be a solider in the reserves?
I guess really im wondering if there's a good chance I will get in the reserves when I apply in a few weeks time?
Thanks


----------



## Osotogari

I'm not a recruiter,


----------



## The_Falcon

Osotogari said:
			
		

> I'm not a recruiter, ........so I'll take it upon myself to offer some free advice.  And Ignore directions



Massive thread on depression here

http://army.ca/forums/threads/13192.0.html  

Locked


----------



## EmmetF

Thought I'd put in an update as to what happened with me.

My doctor made a blunder when he put "dysthymia" on the medical form. I was never diagnosed with it.  He was trying to respond to the statement on the form as filled out, as the form stated that I had indicated that I had been diagnosed with depression.  This was not the case going through my medical files, as he had not reviewed them and simply tried to go by memory as to what had happened with me.  Truth be told, I had went and seen a counselor, he (my GP) had tried to teach me relaxation therapy and that was that. (The "meds" I was on was Zyban, to help me quit smoking at the time. Probably should've mentioned that, and known what the hell I was taking would've helped too.)  In response to the form (DND form 2770) indicating that I had depression, he wrote dysthymia, trying to indicate that if it was apparently a depressive episode, it was mild.  He had forgotten the specifics of dysthymia, and did not realize that it implied a chronic condition. He admitted his mistake to me and we moved forward with getting an appeal ready.  All being said, there were a lot of hoops I had to jump through in order to get a appeal that seemed satisfactory to be sent in, but I eventually got everything I feel I needed to get.  The appeal was successful and my file is nearly complete.

TL;DR: Going to a counselor does not mean you will have depression on you medical file, nor will it stop you from joining the Canadian Forces.

Lessons learned: 

Know whats on your medical files with your GP

Read and understand ALL things written on paperwork submitted to the CAF 

Cheers


----------



## Anten33

I apologize in advance if this question has been answered, or if this is the wrong place to ask this question or if it offends anyone.

I would also like to comment that I have read this thread and other threads in search of this question/answer and other questions/answers so if I missed the thread, I am sorry, I am still human.

Questions:

1) I have my medical examination coming up next week. I do have depression and have been medicated for this. This is a disease and the medications are the treatment. First question, how does this fail to meet the requirements if the Canadian forces website quotes the following "You will not be disqualified based on a diagnosis or disease. "

2) If I do not meet the enrollment standards, which after reading this massive thread seems likely, will the reviewers tell me everything that would prevent me from entering service or just one thing. The reason why I ask, is that there is more then one thing that differentiates me from a normal individual. I have tried asking the recruiting office in both Toronto and Barrie, and have also tried asking recruiters at trade shows, college shows and elsewhere if my condition 'x' would prevent me from getting into the forces, and 99% of them have told me that they do not know the answer either way, and the best thing to do would be to apply and progress through the system to your medical. So the question. If I do not meet the medical requirements will they tell me every reason why I do not meet it, or will they simply say for instance "...you have depression and take meds, and can't get in unless you have been off for a min of 1 year....". I would like to know if I stand a chance. If I get off my meds and wait the 1.5 - 2 years before reapplying will I be deemed medically unfit due to another existing medical issue.

I am going into the medical praying for the best, but knowing that I might be deemed unfit for service. Either way, I have decided that I am satisfied with knowing one way or the other, and also know that it is neither the end of the world if I don't get in or that just because I applied I am going to get a job. Life is not perfect, nobody said it was, and those who say it is are usually lying.


----------



## cryco

Chances are they will tell you come back when you've been off of the meds for some time, assuming you are ok to get off them.
They will also give you a form to take to your dr and on that form, they ask questions like: are you prone to this, can you relapse etc... so it will depend on your dr's comments and you of course getting better. 
Good luck, because they're anal with stuff like this (with good reason). They do not want someone to join that has a history of depression and can relapse.

ps I recently had my medical and asked a lot of questions, because I took some meds that fall into that category (for a different reason), and they expect a full report from my dr and may even make me wait some time off them, regardless of why I took them. Pretty strict.


----------



## Anten33

Should have added one additional comment.

condition 'x' is not something that can not ever be changed. I am more worried about condition 'x' then about the meds or anything else. If they say that condition 'x' is not a worry or will not effect my enlistment in the future then I will consult my doctor regarding taking me off of the meds, otherwise I will stay on the meds and change career direction.

Sorry Cryco for incorrect posting to incorrect place.


----------



## cryco

you shouldn't post that here.


----------



## Blackadder1916

Anten33 said:
			
		

> . . .  First question, how does this fail to meet the requirements if the Canadian forces website quotes the following "You will not be disqualified based on a diagnosis or disease. "



You are focusing on a single sentence, *which in my opinion*, confuses the issue rather than explains the process.  Reading the entire section, the relevant part is

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#tab5


> Medical File Review
> 
> After the medical exam, your medical records and history will be reviewed by military medical staff. *This review helps to determine if there are any medical limitations that will affect your training and career.* You will not be disqualified based on a diagnosis or disease.
> 
> You may be asked for additional exams or reports from your family doctor or a specialist. In this case, you will be given a form with instructions and questions for your doctor.  You are responsible for having your doctor fill out the forms and return them to the recruiting centre as soon as possible so we can continue to move your application towards enrolment. If your doctor expects a fee to complete the forms, you are responsible for that cost.



Applicants are not medically disqualified because they have a prior diagnosis of "x" or "y" or because an enrolment medical examination discovers any such disease, but because a review of an "*individual's*" past and current medical history indicates there are (or likely to be) limitations in their ability to meet the requirements of military service.  It may seem the same thing, but it is not.  There is no rule that everyone with a diagnosis of "x" is automatically disqualified; the specifics of an individual with a diagnosis of "x" is reviewed to determine if that individual can meet the physical and mental requirements of military service.  However, one should not be surprised if the vast majority of individuals with condition "x" do not meet enrolment standards if the common symptoms and outcome of that condition is incompatible with military service.


----------



## groomer

medicineman said:
			
		

> It's actually simple to wrap around - the rules are that if you were treated for depression, you must be stable and off meds for a year.  BTW, the doctor isn't to write on the form what you want them to - it's what's on your chart and their experience with you that's to be commented about.  I've seen that a lot from both sides of the fence.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> MM



There are no "rules" per say, in regards to how long you need to off meds.
Case in point:
Started on anti-depressants in Jan 2013, applied to the CF in June 2013.  Received a rejection letter in March 2014, decided to go off meds that same month.   In September, called the recruiting centre to find out if I could re-open my file, only to find out if was still open and just needed a letter from my doctor explaining I was off meds, yadda yadda...  Received a letter at the beginning of October stating I am now medically fit to serve.  And now, I'm starting BMQ on the 16th.  So there is no "specific amount of time", because I had asked that very same question and was told it's all case by case.  They've seen people who have been off for 2 months be given an offer, and some having to wait over a year.  Good luck to you, no matter what you decide.


----------



## forcerecon85

Hi, I've passed the recruiting process with a history of depression, 10 years since my last episode and medic signed off, went off to basic and was sent home failing to qualify on the range. Being sent home brought up a lot of emotions and sadness, and while I'm in BRT with my local Naval Reserve unit, I fear if I go to get help about my depression, I will be kicked out. Is this an irrational fear being too new and possibly kicked out, or can I get the same services all those who have completed training can get. Sadly, I feel I'm in limbo - I wouldn't be picked up in my current state, yet not want to be removed for seeking help. Thank you.


----------



## PuckChaser

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-support-services-map/member-assistance-program.page

Confidential and free. Give them a call.


----------



## methionine

Hey guys,

Just spent the last hour reading through this thread as I have my own concerns about my medical. Things are moving fairly quickly for me right now, assuming my interview and medical go well I could be off to BMQ at the end of April, assuming all goes well. Quite the surprise since I just did my CFAT a week ago. I had a brief mental health issue roughly 10 years ago. Never diagnosed with anything in particular, but given some seroquel, which I took for two - three months with minimal regularity. I will be frank and state the whole issue was a result of my choice to join my friends in experimentation with a few different types of recreational drugs, a fact I chose to conceal from the psychiatrist I was taken too (after an obvious change had taken place in my mood/manner which has been observed by my parents). This fact was brought to light when I was effectively "caught" bringing to light the real underlying cause of my "issues". This all took place over the course of less than a year, perhaps five months. 

This is the back ground, and I've read enough here to know that asking "will this affect my application, can I still get in?" is a resounding "Yes, it will affect your application, each case is different as it is up to the Medical officer", so I won't bother asking that. What I will ask is whether I can be proactive in the process. 

An effort is being made by the recruiting staff to get me on basic ASAP (assuming all checks out) as the basic occupational training has intake only once a year and they would like to fill the spots. Time between my medical and my potential BMQ date is very short. Anyone know if I could obtain the DND 2770 ( I believe it would be in this case?) prior to the medical exam as to try and make the process take as minimal amount of time as possible.

I realize this may be the nail in the coffin for my application and if it is that will be the extent of it; price paid for poor choices when I was younger. That being said, any advice, thoughts, or just blunt reality anyone wants to offer would be appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## dkm

Hey all, first post on here. I apologize in advance for the book I'll end up writing to explain my situation. I started my application process in the summer of last year, and I was 18 at the time. Completed and qualified for everything I wanted. But when I went in for my medical around a month later, I hadn't realized that the medication I was currently taking would be an issue (Zoloft 25mg once daily) and hadn't stopped taking it. My doctor had put me on it after the sudden death of a friend of mine as a "just in case" measure since my father had also passed away suddenly when I was 15 and went through situational anxiety and depression back then. The WO who was doing my medical gave me a form I would need to get my doctor to fill out and send off to Ottawa for review in regards to why I was on the medication. I received a letter a few months later stating that due to my use of Zoloft I wasn't fit to join at that time. So I had talked to my doctor about weening myself off of it and have been off for over 6 months now and appealed the decision as I do not currently have any depression or anxiety as it was just situational in regards to the sudden deaths of my father and friend, and my doctor had written a short letter saying something along the lines of "Applicant has been off of Zoloft for many months and is showing no signs of anxiety or depression, with no chance of relapse". But when I last contacted my local recruiting office they said that my appeal had been reviewed in Ottawa and the result didn't look promising, and that I'll receive a letter shortly. So finally my question; has anyone experienced applying with a past of situation depression or anxiety and antidepressant use? Is there any chance I will be able to be deemed fit for service if I keep appealing? And any tips or suggestions as to what I should do in this situation?
TL;DR- had situational depression and anxiety after death of family member and friend, was on zoloft when applied, deemed unfit, stopped taking zoloft and got a doctors note and appealed, still looking like I'll be deemed unfit, what're chances of me being able to be deemed fit through continuing to appeal?


----------



## Loachman

Have you tried reading through pertinent older threads here to find answers?


----------



## dkm

I have looked around through some, but have yet to find anything that directly relates to me. Will keep looking though, thanks for response!


----------



## PMedMoe

dkm said:
			
		

> I have looked around through some, but have yet to find anything that directly relates to me. Will keep looking though, thanks for response!



You're probably not going to find the _exact_ same situation, however, there are lots of comparable stories/questions in this thread.


----------



## Masonan96

So I recently applied to the CAF, I scored very high on my CFAT, Personality Test and do very well in school (high school U level courses), also have a job for last 2 years... great references and think my application was pretty bulletproof. But I have hypothyroidism, which if untreated can lead to depression. I do take medication for it and have been since I was a kid, but when I was young doctors thought I was depressed because I was just being diagnosed at the time... but on my medical referral from my doctor she stated that I had suffered from depression but with proper usage of my thyroid medication it went away and continued usage of the medication will keep me healthy and will have no depression... should I hold my breath for acceptance for CAF or do I not stand a chance now. Going for Weapons Engineering Technician if its of any interest. Thanks


----------



## jaysfan17

Masonan96 said:
			
		

> So I recently applied to the CAF, I scored very high on my CFAT, Personality Test and do very well in school (high school U level courses), also have a job for last 2 years... great references and think my application was pretty bulletproof. But I have hypothyroidism, which if untreated can lead to depression. I do take medication for it and have been since I was a kid, but when I was young doctors thought I was depressed because I was just being diagnosed at the time... but on my medical referral from my doctor she stated that I had suffered from depression but with proper usage of my thyroid medication it went away and continued usage of the medication will keep me healthy and will have no depression... should I hold my breath for acceptance for CAF or do I not stand a chance now. Going for Weapons Engineering Technician if its of any interest. Thanks




I read the second post on the first page of this thread. That might be the answer you're looking for. Good Luck.


----------



## PMedMoe

luttrellfan said:
			
		

> I read the second post on the first page of this thread. That might be the answer you're looking for. Good Luck.



And I'd say, the only way to know if you'll get in or not is to apply.


----------



## medicineman

And since he's already applied, I'm going to say "watch and shoot"...just don't hold your breath, since your brain won't appreciate you  ;D.

MM


----------



## alidibian

I have self-inflicted scars and am currently in the process of applying for the reserves is this something i should be concerned about?


----------



## mariomike

alidibian said:
			
		

> I have self-inflicted scars and am currently in the process of applying for the reserves is this something i should be concerned about?



You may find this discussion of interest,

Joining with Self-Inflicted Scars?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/106208.0

As always, best to contact Recruiting.


----------



## patrick13

Hi all, I've applied to the reserves as a musician. I have completed my audition/fitness/aptitude/interview and medical tests. The only hiccup I have had so far was that I have used anti depressants in the past (a SSRI called Pristiq I believe it is a newer second generation drug). The medical team required me to get a paper filled out from my doctor regarding details of my diagnosis and treatment. 
I have been off them for 8-9 months, and my doctor believes (and so do I) that my ability to deal with stress is very good. The main reason for my depression was a poor performance in school and lack of direction in life mixed with a bad family situation and break up which built up because I went many months without doing anything about it. Then I finally got smart and got some help. Along with my medication I saw a therapist for 4 sessions who helped me work on strategies to manage this build of stress. Since then I have been doing very well in school, improved as a musician and am overall fairly healthy. My doctor says my risk of recurrence is very low and I have no need for any more check ups. The letter has been dropped off at recruiting already and all I can do now is wait.
Having said all of this, do you think that my application will be okay and I should expect to be sworn in in maybe a few more weeks? Or is history of antidepressant use a big problem? I don't really know how to feel about which way things could go from here.


----------



## Loachman

You will have to be patient. Nobody here can tell you.

Good luck, though.


----------



## patrick13

Thanks,

Just curious, does anyone know how long it usually takes to hear back from them, good or bad news? The envelope was dropped off at the local recruiting center but at the medical exam they told me they send it to Ottawa for approval (not sure if any of it is electronic or by phone call etc.). 

Also does your trade get factored into their decision, I feel it would be more acceptable for a musician as opposed to infantry based on the nature of the work each trade does. From what I've read they do it on a case by case basis.

 Then again I know nothing of the process that they go through to see if someone is fit to serve.


----------



## medicineman

As mentioned a number of weeks/months/years back, there are three piles that end up in Ottawa - Recommend immediate enrollment, Recommend no friggin way and Recommend on the fence - the on the fence pile is actually quite a high pile, so can take some time to go through.  Usually you're looking at 4-8 weeks, depending on the current workload.  

MM


----------



## Loachman

patrick13 said:
			
		

> I feel it would be more acceptable for a musician as opposed to infantry based on the nature of the work each trade does.



Everybody has to meet Universality of Service requirements.


----------



## patrick13

medicineman said:
			
		

> As mentioned a number of weeks/months/years back, there are three piles that end up in Ottawa - Recommend immediate enrollment, Recommend no friggin way and Recommend on the fence - the on the fence pile is actually quite a high pile, so can take some time to go through.  Usually you're looking at 4-8 weeks, depending on the current workload.
> 
> MM



thanks! interesting info. So the recruiting center makes that decision (one of the 3 categories) and then sends it to Ottawa for approval, or the recruiting center just forwards my medical info from my doctor to Ottawa? So technically I am sitting in one of those piles I guess. Coming up to the 5-6 week mark so hopefully I will get some news soon.


----------



## DAA

patrick13 said:
			
		

> thanks! interesting info. So the recruiting center makes that decision (one of the 3 categories) and then sends it to Ottawa for approval, or the recruiting center just forwards my medical info from my doctor to Ottawa? So technically I am sitting in one of those piles I guess. Coming up to the 5-6 week mark so hopefully I will get some news soon.



NO, your Recruiting Centre only makes a "recommendation".  After that, your medical information is forwarded to the RMO in Ottawa who will make the "decision".  Turn around time, 6-10 weeks.


----------



## patrick13

Okay thank you, I emailed my recruiting center and the medical staff said that they sent the letter to Ottawa and are "awaiting approbation" not to read into their wording too much but hopefully they gave me a good recommendation  Thank you all for the information, I'll let you know the outcome when I hear from Ottawa.


----------



## Cougarrrr

Hi, I know this (or similar questions) has been asked repeatedly, but I did not see a response by a recruiter: am I immediately disqualified because of a history of post-partum depression and/or current use of an anti-depressant? Most of what I have read indicates that applications were denied for both reasons; past history or not being off medication for st least 1 year. Could I get input from a recruiter please?
Thanks in advance


----------



## Loachman

I presume that you have read the "ADHD, ADD, and why we can't get in rants......" thread at http://army.ca/forums/threads/22352/post-1424396/topicseen.html#new. People with recruiting and medical backgrounds have posted therein already, many times, and the responses do not change. Do not expect any different response to your question here.


----------



## da1root

Good day,

During the application process, our recruiting medical personnel will assess your unique medical situation. A complete medical examination is necessary when assessing medical fitness for the Canadian Armed Forces. At this time, the Forces will be able to determine if any existing medical conditions would preclude your from joining.  This is also important when restrictions may limit the career choices being considered.

If you have specific medical questions you should contact the recruiting detachment nearest you and ask to speak with a member of the medical staff directly.

Best Regards,
Sgt Laen


----------



## mariomike

Saw this today in Ask a CAF Recruiter. Adding here for future reference,

Anti depressant disqualification?
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/122637.0/topicseen.html
"...am I immediately disqualified because of a history of post-partum depression and/or current use of an anti-depressant?"


----------



## DAA

Cougarrrr said:
			
		

> Could I get input from a recruiter please?
> Thanks in advance



CAF Recruiters are strictly forbidden from answering any type of "Medical" related question.  The only people qualified to answer this, are the CAF Medical Professionals at your local Recruiting Detachment and even if they were here online, they too wouldn't answer your question(s).  You must first be assessed by them, after which, you will have your answer and not before.

Hence the reason why, no "Recruiter" has responded to any of these types of questions.   What Sgt Laen has posted, is the "best" and only answer you'll get.


----------



## camron007

Figured I would post this here, as I spent a decent amount of time searching this thread and others for information.  Hoping maybe my experience might help some other people out who are in the same boat.  
I Applied to the CF on June 10'th, and was called in for my Trait Descriptive Test on June 17'th.  That seemed to go well, and was told my application had been selected for further processing.  Received a call on June 24'th to book my medical and interview.  The medical is scheduled for Tuesday, July 5'th.  Like many others in this thread I have a small past with minor depression.  Was diagnosed by my G.P. in 2011.  Was prescribed 10mg of Cipralex, and took that regularly until May/June of last year.  Never saw a psychiatrist or counsellor for said depression.  Just did things to improve my quality of life.  Achieved my high school diploma, got out of a toxic relationship, worked full time, became a regular gym member etc.  Hoping that this past prescription does not DQ me from enrolment, but based on this thread and others I have read I may run into some issues.  Guess I will wait and see and on Tuesday find out.  I'm hoping the interview with the Med Tech illustrates that it's behind me, and I have taken many steps to improve my life.  Will keep anyone who's reading this updated and let you know how it goes.  Hoping I get to join this nice club you guys and girls have!


----------



## ETrump

Hi, everyone. This is my first post here, and I'm only posting because I haven't been able to find an answer (or any input at all). I understand that no one but the medical staff reviewing my application can give me a completely accurate answer. Here's my situation; I was sent from my medical exam with a form for my doctor to fill out regarding depression. A few years back, I was forced by my parents to see a pediatrician to see what was going on with me because I wasn't doing well in school. Long story short, I don't believe I was ever officially diagnosed with depression, but the pediatrician asked if I wanted to go on meds and speak to a therapist, which I declined. I knew what I was going through was just a phase, and it only affected me for a year or two. The problem is that this pediatrician came to the conclusion that I was suffering from major depression, and he made it sound a lot more serious than it ever was. When I spoke to my doctor, I told him that i wasn't accurately assessed, and that i haven't been suffering from depression pretty much since I saw the pediatrician. If my doctor says I'm fine, how likely is it that I can still join? Should I really even be worried about it? It would be one thing if I was taking medication, and was still depressed, but I'm just not sure what to think right now. Any help is appreciated, but re-directing me to a page I've already seen that didn't have my answer won't help.

Thanks, Eric


----------



## CombatDoc

Have your family physician fill out the form. If s/he feels it is required, they can mention the period in question or include the pediatricians comments.


----------



## ETrump

ArmyDoc said:
			
		

> Have your family physician fill out the form. If s/he feels it is required, they can mention the period in question or include the pediatricians comments.



Thank you for your response. My doctor said he will include the pediatricians comments (which weren't great). Would my doctor's current evaluation on me typically be the most important information to the medical officer?


----------



## Kittles85

Hi everyone, 
I was just wondering if there is anyone out there that has been accepted that was on anti depressants during their recruiting process.. 
I have been on and off of small doses of cipralex for anxiety for 10 years. I have weened off my medication completely last month and my doctor filled out on the form that I don't require follow up and that my anxiety has a very low chance of recurring. 
My medical documents were sent to Ottawa Oct 2. I am preparing myself for being medically rejected but if I could just find one person that had been accepted while either on medication or off recently after they applied that would give Me a little bit of hope. I have spent weeks reading these forums and have yet to hear of a person approved for enrollment under these circumstances, without an appeal. 
Thanks!


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, Kittles85

Firstly, thanks for doing your homework here prior to asking. I appreciate that, as so few first-time posters do.

Your doctor's competence to state that your "anxiety has a very low chance of recurring" in a _military_ environment, with its rather unusual stresses, is highly unlikely. Suicide as a result of Operational Stress Injuries is far too frequent.

Finding "just one person" is irrelevant. Medical assessments are specific to individuals. You will have to wait for your results - but you already appear to understand the odds.

I wish you luck.


----------



## camron007

Kittles85 said:
			
		

> Hi everyone,
> I was just wondering if there is anyone out there that has been accepted that was on anti depressants during their recruiting process..
> I have been on and off of small doses of cipralex for anxiety for 10 years. I have weened off my medication completely last month and my doctor filled out on the form that I don't require follow up and that my anxiety has a very low chance of recurring.
> My medical documents were sent to Ottawa Oct 2. I am preparing myself for being medically rejected but if I could just find one person that had been accepted while either on medication or off recently after they applied that would give Me a little bit of hope. I have spent weeks reading these forums and have yet to hear of a person approved for enrollment under these circumstances, without an appeal.
> Thanks!



Our situations aren’t similar, but you will find my original post a page or two back. I took cipralex for a couple of years, and applied to the forces after being off for one year. I was medically unfit, and told to reapply in a year. I did, and am now leaving for BMQ March 3rd. You were on cipralex for a lot longer and you describe it as “on and off”. I have no idea what their policy is for these but I feel that may be a tougher sell. In any case, it is possible to have a bout with depression and get in.


----------



## PINEAPPLEBELONGSONPIZZA

So I have a question. Sorry in advance for the long post. So I have plans to join the CF in the future give or take 10 years. I’m wondering if having been on medication in the past for mental illness will affect my chances of entering the military. Most of my childhood and teenage years I was on medication. As of 2014 I have been off all medications. To sum it up as a kid I had lots of energy was in a foster home who didn’t know how to deal with me so they drugged me up with lots of medication. What they did was actually illegal by the way. None the less I went into a permanent home after and was taken off all medication and was given the right ones only 2.  Prozac and Concerta which helped me in high school and the depression I got from abuse as a child. In my last year of high school I was given respiridone for a suicide attempt, that also was wrongly done as I found out later on in life. I had one more attempt after high school and a self harm incident which I was not kept in the hospital as the  psychiatrist there sent me home knowing It was not serious and that I admitted it was an attention thing. In 2014 I was taken off all medication as I was seen fit by my doctor in doing so. When my doctor took me off all medication she also told me the respiridone was wrongly prescribed for my attempt in high school and noted it shouldn’t have been given. After I was off medication I felt 100% better. I had no issues for 2 years, no depression, anxiety, and ect. After 5 months of marriage I got pregnant and got pregnancy ocd and after birth I got the anxiety. I did not receive any help and am not on any medication at the moment.  I’ve been working on fixing my issues on my own with different tactics as I already know that I can’t rely on a drug in order to cope especially in the military. So I guess what I’m asking is with all this crap that I have dealt with and the issues I’m working on fixing do you in your personal opinion think that I could qualify for the CF even if I pass all the other tests? Please note I plan on doing reserves in 10 years and only reserves in the Navy as my husband is full time in the military and with a child and another on the way full time is not an option. I plan on doing everything I can to get in because I know you have to train hard and work hard in order to get in. I plan on going back to school and doing anything else that will help. I’m also stubborn, don’t take no for an answer and so I’m soldiering on and doing anything I can to get into the career I so desperately want. Also don’t know if this helps but hubby was all for it and thought I could get in prior to getting pregnant but has different views now with children as he thinks I should just stay home and be that military wife. Any advice and input is greatly appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Jarnhamar

1. Paragraphs.

2. Yes everything you described will in all likelihood affect your chances of joining. No none here can say for certain how much or whether or not you'll be accepted to the CAF.

3. Thread is full of people asking the same kinds of questions, have a look.  OCD, anxeity, suicide attempts, self-harm. That's serious stuff.

4. _Not taking no for an answer_ isn't a great trait for the military where you're expected to follow orders, even orders you really don't like.


----------



## mariomike

PINEAPPLEBELONGSONPIZZA said:
			
		

> In my last year of high school I was given respiridone for a suicide attempt, that also was wrongly done as I found out later on in life. I had one more attempt after high school and a self harm incident which I was not kept in the hospital as the  psychiatrist there sent me home knowing It was not serious and that I admitted it was an attention thing.



Self-Harm/Suicide Attempts
https://army.ca/forums/threads/69787.25



			
				PINEAPPLEBELONGSONPIZZA said:
			
		

> After 5 months of marriage I got pregnant and got pregnancy ocd and after birth I got the anxiety.



Anxiety/OCD/meds 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13409.25



			
				PINEAPPLEBELONGSONPIZZA said:
			
		

> Also don’t know if this helps but hubby was all for it and thought I could get in prior to getting pregnant but has different views now with children as he thinks I should just stay home and be that military wife. Any advice and input is greatly appreciated.



How to get family on board  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13678.475

As always, Recruiting ( Medical ) is your most trusted source of official, up to date information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## PINEAPPLEBELONGSONPIZZA

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> 1. Paragraphs.
> 
> 2. Yes everything you described will in all likelihood affect your chances of joining. No none here can say for certain how much or whether or not you'll be accepted to the CAF.
> 
> 3. Thread is full of people asking the same kinds of questions, have a look.  OCD, anxeity, suicide attempts, self-harm. That's serious stuff.
> 
> 4. _Not taking no for an answer_ isn't a great trait for the military where you're expected to follow orders, even orders you really don't like.




First of all I am aware that this needed paragraphs but being the early hours of the morning with a toddler who decided to pull an all nighter I could have cared less as I was hardly awake.  

 Secondly I am very aware of the seriousness all of this. I am hoping though that in 10 years when I apply that they will hopefully accept me considering by that point it will have been 15 years since any suicide and self harm.  

I want also note that by that point my OCD and anxiety will be gone during that time because it’s all pregnancy related. 

Lastly I know very well that a “I don’t take no for an answer” attitude will not work in the military. When I stated that it was in terms of trying to get the job I am pursuing. I have no issues of doing anything I can to get in.  

I really appreciate your input though, thank you.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

PINEAPPLEBELONGSONPIZZA said:
			
		

> First of all I am aware that this needed paragraphs but being the early hours of the morning with a toddler who decided to pull an all nighter I could have cared less as I was hardly awake.
> 
> Secondly I am very aware of the seriousness all of this. I am hoping though that in 10 years when I apply that they will hopefully accept me considering by that point it will have been 15 years since any suicide and self harm.
> 
> I want also note that by that point my OCD and anxiety will be gone during that time because it’s all pregnancy related.
> 
> Lastly I know very well that a “I don’t take no for an answer” attitude will not work in the military. When I stated that it was in terms of trying to get the job I am pursuing. I have no issues of doing anything I can to get in.
> 
> I really appreciate your input though, thank you.



Hello, welcome to Army.ca.

You’ll find that answers/responses to posts are very often stated directly, with no fluff, as is the way of CAF when at all possible. Many users come here asking similar questions about a multitude of topics. Other users take the time to answer as accurately and efficiently as they can. It’s important that new users understand that responses are not personal. If undue tone/attitude is used, DS will usually monitor and step in when necessary. 

Directing Staff encourages the success of new/old/returning users to the site, and, along with the Mentors, offer guidance where we see it’s needed. Everyone here has a story, some choose to share and some don’t. But where all posts are concerned, we ask everyone to utilize proper grammar, punctuation and sentence structure to the best of their abilities. Many of us spend a lot of time here and being able to read posts easily, especially when we see users who are seeking assistance, is very important—Both to the original poster and to those taking the time to lend a hand. 

That being said, as you are a new user, there’s no need to become defensive if a user points out how the process of these boards can be best suited for everyone. I’m sorry you’re in a difficult position, and there are certainly those who sympathize. But take posting advisements under consideration. They are often pointed out in order to help people adapt quickly to the tone, rules and expectations of this site.

I hope you find information which is helpful. We are a tremendous source for all things military, and oftentimes,  even for non-CAF related topics. 

Happy reading,

Staff


----------



## Loachman

Further to my esteemed colleague's points, PINEAPPLEBELONGSONPIZZA:

Personal History

I have known many people, in and outside of the CF, who have had crappy childhoods and/or relationships/marriages, in a couple of cases exhibiting self-harm for short periods. I have also known one who had absolutely disgusting, unimaginable, and completely unacceptable experience _*in*_ the CF (I was her Assisting Officer; she ultimately prevailed). I honestly do not know how they maintained their sanity and continued to function, other than sheer determination. At least one is still dealing with her past several decades later, but put herself through university and earned a Master's degree while raising children with no support from her spouse.

Your background is not normal, but, sadly, far too frequent. If others can overcome similar obstacles, there is no reason why you cannot either. You can also turn your negative experiences into strength for others' benefit. Understanding abuse, neglect, and depression etcetera directly and dealing with it successfully can be of great help to others. That is why the previously-mentioned woman who earned her Master's degree is now a social worker.

Chances of Enrollment

You will never know, and nobody here can predict with any meaningful accuracy, what your chances are. You will have to actually apply and go through the whole process in order to find out. That aside, I see no specific reason why you should be denied entry. You will have to work hard on yourself to overcome the issues which have troubled and continue to trouble you, and which may spring up again many years after you think that you've beaten them down. You seem perfectly aware of this already.

"It's all pregnancy related". Maybe. Your past may have made you more susceptible, too. You have most likely already taken that into consideration, but it needs to be said. Military life can add some unique stressors that can inflame pre-existing problems, most especially when deployed or even long afterwards, but, as a Reservist, that is far less likely to happen.

Be aware of all of these things, and, when necessary, seek help before anything goes too far. There is more available now, and much less stigma. Any of us who has been in for a few years, and some with far less time in, has lost a friend and colleague (or several) to suicide, so we are fairly sensitive to that.

This is a supportive Site, and there are people who can help, either publicly or privately, if needed. There is also much discussion in older threads on this Site, so, please, explore those when toddler(s) permit.

Communication Style

Readability is important. If you wish people to read what you take the time and trouble to write, you need to take a little more time and trouble to make it easily readable, as well as clear and complete. Most/many will just pass on by when they see a massive block of words. I almost did, but decided to read it only because of BeyondTheNow's response - she is worth reading and her advice is solid.

There is seldom a need to rush a post out. I understand your fatigue and distraction, and presume that you had these thoughts composed in your head right then and wanted to set them down while they were fresh. I sometimes do that off-Site, when composing a lengthy reply or one that requires some research, in Word Perfect (because I despise Word). I can then work and re-work my composition until satisfied with it, and paste it back into the thread in which I am commenting.

One can also save one's effort during the process; I have put too much time into too many responses only to lose them due to a computer/software/Site glitch - and that is _extremely_ frustrating.

Accuracy, Brevity, and Clarity (ABC, obviously) are the fundamentals of effective communication, and a requirement for military communication. Inaccurate communication can result in confusion, loss of valuable and often irreplaceable equipment, loss of lives, mission failure, and deep personal embarrassment. Overly-long communication (as this one may have become some time ago) can induce people to become bored, tune out, fall asleep, or begin plotting the speaker's/author's grisly death. Lack of clarity leads to misinterpretation, followed by the same effects stemming from lack of accuracy, or delay while further clarification is being sought.

Proper spelling, grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and structure are important ABC supporters, and help to make reading easier and more pleasant.

Just as the CF in general insists upon this, so do we on this Site (although, admittedly, nobody's died or been maimed by a confusing post here).

Conclusion (Finally)

Continue to participate here, benefit from the experiences of others, and contribute where you feel competent and comfortable to do so.

And, when the time is right, apply.

Qapla.


----------



## colinreid16

Hello Army.ca forum users,

I started my application with the CAF in Nov of 2016. Passed both the CFAT and ACS for my primary trade choice AEC. I went through the interview well and was recommended for the job. However, my previous history of taking depression and anxiety medications is now complicating things. 

My depression was very situational in that I had been going through a very difficult period of my life (my grandfather passed, I was miserable at work and my girlfriend had dumped me unexpectedly) and my doctor recommended I go on a very low dosage of citalopram. This was in 2013 and I continued taking medication out of habit. 

It never occurred to me that taking medication could halt my chances of making it into the CAF. Once I found this out, I immediately began to progressively reduce my dosage and by March 2017 I stopped and have been off meds since. 

The problem I'm having is that the forces want to know when exactly I was off my meds via my doctor. I made a huge misjudgment in that I did not tell my doctor I had stopped taking medication. He can only go off of when I had my last prescription filled. So he gave me a note indicating as much and that I had been off my medication for some time. 

If anyone could give me some advice or suggestions as to how to proceed or what to expect. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MichaelTX

Hello,

  Does anybody have personal experience, or know of a person who has applied and been accepted into the CAF with a history of Dysthymia?

  I've read through this entire forum, as well as other forums looking for anything more than an obscure reference to Dysthymia. I don't know which is harder, finding information on this specific type of depression, or finding information on WFE Techs.

  Any information given strictly for a basic framework of possible pathways. Already sent my psychiatric assessment forms from my G.P. to Ottawa, just waiting for the rejection letter so I can get more concrete standards to meet, if even possible.

  Thanks for any help and/or information.


----------



## unknown198

I'm wondering if I can join the Canadian military after having taken both antidepressants and anti-psychotic medicine. I have been on the antidepressant for 4 years and the anti-psychotic for almost 2 . My psychiatrist tells me she wants me on the anti-psychotic for 2 more years and says i will not be able to join the military . Is she right about this? Will this affect my chances of becoming a pilot?


----------



## Cloud Cover

Probably not in your immediate future. Have you considered AmmoTech?


----------



## medicineman

Cloud Cover said:
			
		

> Probably not in your immediate future. Have you considered AmmoTech?


----------



## unknown198

Hi,

I'm wondering if I can join the military after having had a psychotic event and been on anti-psychotics for a number of years?  I would like to become a pilot.


----------



## blacktriangle

You won't know unless you apply and are given a yes or no. I'm not a doctor, so I can't say. 

With that said, the military tends to medically release already serving members if they require certain medications or have had similar incidents. My advice would be to try, but make sure you have a back up plan. There's more to life than flying or being in the military. 

 :2c:


----------



## mariomike

unknown198 said:
			
		

> I'm wondering if I can join the military after having had a psychotic event and been on anti-psychotics for a number of years?



From two CAF Recruiters,



			
				Buck_HRA said:
			
		

> Good day,
> 
> During the application process, our recruiting medical personnel will assess your unique medical situation. A complete medical examination is necessary when assessing medical fitness for the Canadian Armed Forces. At this time, the Forces will be able to determine if any existing medical conditions would preclude your from joining.  This is also important when restrictions may limit the career choices being considered.
> 
> If you have specific medical questions you should contact the recruiting detachment nearest you and ask to speak with a member of the medical staff directly.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Sgt Laen





			
				DAA said:
			
		

> CAF Recruiters are strictly forbidden from answering any type of "Medical" related question.  The only people qualified to answer this, are the CAF Medical Professionals at your local Recruiting Detachment and even if they were here online, they too wouldn't answer your question(s).  You must first be assessed by them, after which, you will have your answer and not before.
> 
> Hence the reason why, no "Recruiter" has responded to any of these types of questions.   What Sgt Laen has posted, is the "best" and only answer you'll get.



See also, Reply #393


----------



## Jarnhamar

unknown198 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'm wondering if I can join the military after having had a psychotic event and been on anti-psychotics for a number of years?  I would like to become a pilot.



What does the 198 in your name represent?


----------



## BeyondTheNow

unknown198 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'm wondering if I can join the military after having had a psychotic event and been on anti-psychotics for a number of years?  I would like to become a pilot.



Any questions regarding medical suitability (i.e. odds of, will I, does CAF, am I, what if, what about, I take these medications, etc etc etc) of a future applicant cannot and will not be answered on this forum. 

The process for getting hired to any trade with the CAF is lengthy and involved, and even more so for certain positions, such as pilot. 

If it’s something you feel you want to attempt, then there’s no harm in applying. The appropriate people make their decisions on who is successful and who isn’t during each section of the initial hiring process based on all the information the applicant is required to provide. (And any additional selection processes required of certain trades.)

No one on this forum is going to be able to give you concrete assurances/answers. The personal backgrounds of CAF members are as varied as  one might imagine, but as for what is and isn’t considered a ‘hard no’ in terms of successful applicants is up to those who are directly involved with each applicant file, not anonymous users on the internet.

As was stated, if you’re serious, apply and see what happens. But back-up plans are always good to have.


----------



## EastonPacman

ETrump said:
			
		

> Thank you for your response. My doctor said he will include the pediatricians comments (which weren't great). Would my doctor's current evaluation on me typically be the most important information to the medical officer?



Did you end up getting enrolled after this medical?


----------



## mariomike

EastonPacman said:
			
		

> Did you end up getting enrolled after this medical?



Last Active: August 31, 2017
https://army.ca/forums/members/103928


----------



## beentrill

For those who come across this page curious about past mental health/medication issues looking for some clarity:

I applied on June/19 for Naval Warfare Officer position, having only been off of Cipralex for 6 months (I took it consistently for the past 6 years along with frequent Therapy appointments, issues with Social Anxiety during that period, zero depressive episodes). By the time my interview/medical came around in November this year, I fully declared my prior usage to medical staff, and the doctor said it shouldn't be an issue if social anxiety is all that I took medication for. 

Recruitment staff required my family doctor to fill out the necessary medical clearance form (which I did ASAP). 

My family doctor gave me the all clear on the form (I've been seeing the same doctor for close to a decade) citing no issues/concerns whatsoever and that I have a low chance of relapse. Been a lot of hard work getting to a place where I could be medication free and it has paid off wonderfully.

I received my Selection Offer two weeks later for NWO. I was certain I would be rejected based on what I've read on this forum/heard from others. The moderators/recruiting staff are all correct in saying that everyone's situation is unique and cannot be bundled into one singular situation. On my way out early January 2020 for BMOQ! Wish everyone experiencing similar issues luck moving forward, there is light at the end of the tunnel

P.S: From application to offer, the whole process took roughly 6 months. Seriously fast compared to a family member whose application time took nearly a year and a 1/2!!


----------



## mariomike

Congratulations and good luck.


----------

