# Ship's Boarding Party [Merged]



## DeepThaut

I was wondering if anybody could answer a few questions I have about Naval Boarding Parties. Alright, first of all do you have to be a boatswain first before you can take the NBP course? Because it says on the recruiting site that it is a specialty course for the boatswain trade. And are they consindered to be elite soldiers and how physically demanding is their training? Any other information would be gladly appreciated!! 

-Nordwind


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## 30 for 30

The Truth, Duty, Valour series on OLN recently had one episode about NBP training, it looked pretty cool. If you got a hold of that episode it would be a good overview of the training. Perhaps try the OLN website. It didn't look excessively tough (unlike the Clearance Diver course), but it certainly came across as challenging and a lot of fun. If possible I'm hoping to get on that course at some point.


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## Yard Ape

Any navy trade can do it.

I have heard Navy folk talk of the benifits of the various tech in the boarding parties.  A guy that knows his way around an engine room is likely to find smuggled cargo hidden there.


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## Infanteer

I'm sure Ex-Dragoon could give you a hand on this topic.


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## Ex-Dragoon

Nordwind said:
			
		

> I was wondering if anybody could answer a few questions I have about Naval Boarding Parties. Alright, first of all do you have to be a boatswain first before you can take the NBP course? Because it says on the recruiting site that it is a specialty course for the boatswain trade. And are they considered to be elite soldiers and how physically demanding is their training? Any other information would be gladly appreciated!!
> 
> -Nordwind



Sure...nope...any trade can do it as long as your department is willing to let you go in other words put in a Request Form. Well I work in the Ops Rm and I am no Boatswain. well we are far far far below the title of elite soldiers. That IMO belong to the light infantry battalions of the regular army. We are competent lets say that. How physical is it? Well you should be in shape....you will be climbing up boarding ladders that might not be secured in rough seas and rappelling down containers or even into holds on bulk carriers. There are a few ppl that are pear shape but they can still do the job.


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## DeepThaut

Ya I seen that TDV has a episode about the NBP but I only caught the end of it, I'll try to see that episode again sometimes if I'm lucky. Thanks for clearing that up Ex-Dragoon! I have a few more questions for you again. If you are on the NBP, is that your only job once on the ship or do you go and do your regular trade until the call comes up that there is a boat that needs boarding? And does every ship have it's own NBP? Thanks again!

-Nordwind


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## Ex-Dragoon

Nordwind said:
			
		

> Ya I seen that TDV has a episode about the NBP but I only caught the end of it, I'll try to see that episode again sometimes if I'm lucky. Thanks for clearing that up Ex-Dragoon! I have a few more questions for you again. If you are on the NBP, is that your only job once on the ship or do you go and do your regular trade until the call comes up that there is a boat that needs boarding? And does every ship have it's own NBP? Thanks again!
> 
> -Nordwind



No problem happy to help. To answeryour next questions it always depends on your Departmental requirements and what else is going on. Sometimes you are and sometimes you are not. Yes...the only ones that I am not sure of are the SSKs but thats a different kettle of fish anyways.


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## 30 for 30

I'm thinking a Navy/Air Force section to the forum would be cool. Probably inappropriate at "army.ca" but there's nowhere else for us navy types to go!


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## DeepThaut

An other thanks going out to you Ex-Dragoon! That clears up my questions.    And yes RNW I agree that a small section of the forums dedicated to the Airforce/Navy would be nice maybe we can conivince Mike to add an other forum room in.  Oh and Ex-Dragoon, one last question then I'll stop bugging ya haha  What kind of small arms do you guys use? MP5's? C7's? I also seen a picture of NBP members practicing with Remington shotguns and SIG Sauers. Do they use anything else? Thanks again and I really appreciate the info!

-Nordwind


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## Ex-Dragoon

As much as I hate to admit it I don't think there is enough interest to warrant Mike setting up a Navy.ca or a Coffee break oops I mean an Air Force.ca site.

For boarding ops we all carry a Sig Sauer P225, ASP Baton, pepper spray and cuffs; some also carry the MP5 and a couple carry the 870s. For Force Protection duties we carry the C7 plus our P225s.


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## 30 for 30

A teeny little Navy/Air Force section located in "The Mess" portion of the forums would be groovy.


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## Yard Ape

RNW said:
			
		

> A teeny little Navy/Air Force section located in "The Mess" portion of the forums would be groovy.


Then add your voice here: http://army.ca/forums/threads/3685.0


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## krugan

Here are a bunch of pictures of our Navy's boarding parties preparing and searching.

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.c...te=cc_searchResults_e&Submit=Search&offset=12


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## DeepThaut

Hey Yard Ape, I took your advise and posted there and now theres a new section in these forums named Airforce/Navy! 
And thanks for the link Krugan, those are some nice pictures!

-Nordwind


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## Enzo

NBP is the primary reasoning I used to convince myself that I would be satisfied entering the navy as opposed to returning to the army. I'm not 100% on those Sig P225's however; I know why they went for them, but I'd rather have a P226. Just my preference though. I figure if you're going to have a single column magazine, then use .45. Just an opinion, not trying to get into an equipment discussion.

Aside from that, I've heard differing opinions on this question, so I'll repeat it here. A MARS officer is assigned to a NBP, is that correct? If so, what other duties are performed by such when they are attached to the NBP? Is this their primary role throughout their tour? Any MARS around who spent time as such?

Cheers...


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## Ex-Dragoon

There are two officers assigned to the team...one is the team leader and is a MARs officer LT(N) and in some cases a junior LT CDR (very very rare). The other officer is also usually a MARS officer LT(N) or S/LT and he is the witnessing officer and he usually gathers info, makes sure the documents are in order etc.

As for the P225, never had a problem with it. Much more reliable then the Hi Power. The 8 rounds per mag sucks but its enough to get you out of there if the fit hits the shan.


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## Slim

Enzo said:
			
		

> I'm not 100% on those Sig P225's however; I know why they went for them, but I'd rather have a P226. Just my preference though. I figure if you're going to have a single column magazine, then use .45. Just an opinion, not trying to get into an equipment discussion.
> 
> Cheers...



Yah...I know what you mean. To anyone who uses a Sig the 225 is considered the small handed persons gun. ;D 

There was another name for it but things being as PC as they are it is no longer polite to say out loud.


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## Ex-Dragoon

LOL nothing wrong with having small hands.


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## Slim

!!!


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## Ex-Dragoon

its _how_ you use them....


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## Slim

!!


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## Enzo

I've no issue with Sig Sauer's, they produce a fine handgun. It's all about that single column magazine. If I'm going to have to rely upon a 9mm, then I want at least 16rds. Better to have and not need, etc... I'm not a big fan of 9mm; I'm a .40 S&W/.45ACP guy. But that's only my preference. I'm a throughback though, I have a .45 for IPSC and would prefer to use that, but that's unrealistic and I understand why, so Sig P225 it is. It's secondary anyway, and shot placement's more important. Just makes me think, keep that H&K in good condition eh. Sorry, I could talk small arms all day.

I'm more interested in what the day to day and duties of a MARS assigned to NBP would be. Is this the primary assignment? What are the other duties? What exactly is Force Protection? How long realistically until one can be assigned to a NBP as a MARS?


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## Ex-Dragoon

Enzo said:
			
		

> I've no issue with Sig Sauer's, they produce a fine handgun. It's all about that single column magazine. If I'm going to have to rely upon a 9mm, then I want at least 16rds. Better to have and not need, etc... I'm not a big fan of 9mm; I'm a .40 S&W/.45ACP guy. But that's only my preference. I'm a throughback though, I have a .45 for IPSC and would prefer to use that, but that's unrealistic and I understand why, so Sig P225 it is. It's secondary anyway, and shot placement's more important. Just makes me think, keep that H&K in good condition eh. Sorry, I could talk small arms all day.
> 
> I'm more interested in what the day to day and duties of a MARS assigned to NBP would be. Is this the primary assignment? What are the other duties? What exactly is Force Protection? How long realistically until one can be assigned to a NBP as a MARS?



No worries Enzo I could talk firearms all day as well.
Usually its the Deck Officer who is the Boarding O as well. Like any other thing it woul depend on what was going on at the time and the tempo of ops so the all encompassing "it depends" applies.

Force Protection are measures while always considered were never really implemented until after Sept 11. They involve arming of personnel to protect the ship. Beyond that I won't say anymore.


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## Enzo

No worries, I appreciate your input.

Basically, this is a matter of, "you can take the man out of the infantry..." I'm fine with a future in the Navy, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the infantry. This was a tough decision, so I'm trying to find outlets for me when I return, hence my interest in the NBP eh.

I'm also getting restless...

Cheers...


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## jonsey

How hard would it be to get into the NBP training? After completing your MOC course, is there a length of time that you would have to wait before applying to the NBP?


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## Ex-Dragoon

It all depends on what your Department says.


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## krugan

Does anyone know why the boarding parties would not wear kevlar helmets?  I am assuming they are wearing the kevlar vests underneath their life jackets though, is that correct?

It just seems like there is such a serious risk factor when boarding those ships and you never know what is going to be on them these days.  Do the parties also use any kind of equipment to check for NBC?


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## Ex-Dragoon

The money just isn't there to outfit all the teams with kevlar helmets and while I know a kevlar helmet does not weigh that much searching a ships hold with its 40 degrees Celsius out raises the temperature and makes wearing the helmet uncomfortable. Its also an intimadation issue, we find we have had better results in co-operation by dressesing as we do then countries that board with helmets and full battle gear. 
for NBC yes we have equipment available.


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## winchable

It may be best to Not discuss the specifics of naval boarding parties (IE the wearing of vests, tactics, etc.)
It could very well be myself, ex-dragoon or any other NBP members or future members who could suffer as a result.

Just a gentle reminder that these forums get thousands of visitors, not all of them with the best intentions.
NBP is dangerous enough as it is without the enemy knowing what they're going to get hit with and how.


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## krugan

Che,

I would certainly agree with you, but the fact that RCN posts pictures of their NBP's and the equipment that they are wearing would seem that these questions are open for discussion as to why they would not use it.

I would imagine the bad guys would/should be more sophisticated then looking on a forum.  If they really want to know you would think they would send out a dummy ship in hopes of getting boarded and learn from that.


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## winchable

I'm not here to debate this.
We have rules on this site concerning OPSEC and they won't bend simply because it's a NBP discussion and not a discussion about Infantry Patrol tactics or FIBUA.

As for sending out a dummy boat, won't debate the specifics, it doesn't seem unreasonable that anyone can be reading these forums at any time, that's not just paranoia, it's security which we all have a duty to watch out for no matter how anal it may seem at times.

As I said it was a gentle reminder that theres a chance these walls have ears, perhaps it's a small chance, perhaps the pirates of the carribean are reading this right now, either way it's a chance that we won't bet on.


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## Ex-Dragoon

Well said Che...btw there is no RCN....hasn't been since Unification.


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## digital

krugan said:
			
		

> Che,
> 
> I would certainly agree with you, but the fact that RCN posts pictures of their NBP's and the equipment that they are wearing would seem that these questions are open for discussion as to why they would not use it.
> 
> I would imagine the bad guys would/should be more sophisticated then looking on a forum.  If they really want to know you would think they would send out a dummy ship in hopes of getting boarded and learn from that.



rgr that. i am attracted to this exp too which is why i applied for the Navy. searched all the websites that offered pics of NBP's and wondered why canada doesnt outfit our boys like SealTeam6? anyway, found my answers here. but yeah, the questions seem legit and if terrorists wanna get the "edge" dont think they would get it from browsing this forum when DND.CA posts extreme closeups of boarding parties faces, gear, and firearms. but the input is appreciated and i understand your "these walls have ears" theory. thank you for the info. always appreciated.


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## Ex-Dragoon

A good intel team gathers info where it can and knows how to filter out the crap. While this is not an official CF website if you look hard enough you can get some useful information off of this site if you know what you are looking for.


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## Spr.Earl

On T.D.V. they showed the boarding party course that is run in Esquimalt.
Very interesting.
But as Ex Merch I was critiquing all the way as to how to beat the team.
A very good show to watch.


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## Ex-Dragoon

I found their attention to detail was badly taught, especially with the vests worn on the outside of the coveralls and the fingers in the trigger guards.


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## Cloud Cover

Ex-D, i'm gonna defer to your more recent experience here, but I've seen that particular video before, and frankly I was not impressed. Overall, I found the boarding teams very hesitant and unsteady. Then again, they were in training, which is different than what you learn on Ops. And, to be perfectly honest, I only had the opportunity for half a dozen boardings, none of them terrorist related, and all with the SMG and 9mm. So the weapons, and the tactics were different. But I must say I found the crews and teams on T.D.V. very cavalier ... I noticed one OS paying more attention to a harbour YAG than the instructor.


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## Cloud Cover

Ex -D, you posted while I was typing!!!


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## Ex-Dragoon

When TDV first aired that segment I was scrambling for damage control because I did not want the good people here to think that is how we are all taught and how we treat all boardings. I have been assured though by people I know on the West Coast that things have improved dramatically.


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## Spr.Earl

All right you two Hairy Bag's stop,suck back and reload!
I think every one who saw that program realised that the were new to the game.
From an Ex.Merch type I found flaws also but did find it interesting.

In my youth I was taught by old Seaman(WWII Vets) how to smuggle and I bet if I was given 3 days I could load and hide a 1 ton of exsplosives aboard a ship and we went to sea and you guys did a boarding you might find some but not all and if you did you and you ship would join me in Valhalla 

A Merchant ship has so many hiding places it's not funny,it's scary!!!
Ex. you ever check the chain locker on a Merch. Ship?
It's big and deep with lot's of free space.!!!!!! 

Thank God I'm on our side.


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## Ex-Dragoon

*snicker* you would be surprised on where we do search Earl, not all are pleasant places, I will leave it at that.


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## Cloud Cover

Ha ha ... we searched a 78' yacht once near Saltspring for dope ... after searching the top drawer of a dresser in aft cabin,  guess what we left lying on the king size bed???  Took a picture of it too ... strictly for evidence purposes.


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## Spr.Earl

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> *snicker* you would be surprised on where we do search Earl, not all are pleasant places, I will leave it at that.


Hey I know my rights I'm entitled to a cavity search. ;D


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## Spr.Earl

In all seriousness there are so many places on aMerchant Ship to hide things do you Ex think yuo cought every thing.?


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## Cloud Cover

Everything but the "Golden Rivet"...


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## Spr.Earl

whiskey 601 said:
			
		

> Everything but the "Golden Rivet"...


ROTFLMAO!!
But you also forgot the bucket of steam!!


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## Sheerin

??? The golden rivet?  Is this one of those things that us non-military types will never understand?


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## winchable

> The golden rivet?  Is this one of those things that us non-military types will never understand?



When you find it...you will know.
Mwahaha...bloody old salts


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## Spr.Earl

Sheerin said:
			
		

> ??? The golden rivet?   Is this one of those things that us non-military types will never understand?


Ever been to sea Billy?


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## winchable

> Ever been to sea Billy?



No sir...but I've been blown ashore..

yar har har har



Ahahaha lol stop stop


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## Spr.Earl

Look out here comes the monkies fist!!  ;D
O.K. what's a monkies fist?


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## NavyGrunt

I saw that Spr. Earl I saw you call it the paw before you corrected yourself.....I was just about to post my correction.

Monkey's fist is Tied at the end of a line so it can be heaved farther, also if you make one large enough its funny to hit other sailors in the crotch as they come around corners.....as for monkey's paw.....I saw it in legend of kung fu once.....


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## Spr.Earl

Aaron put my last down to CRS   as you stated. 
The knot with a weight placed in the middle and the whole fist is dipped in red lead (old days) and dried and dipped again for added weight for a heaving line as it's known as.

I was pretty good heaving it in my youth.


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## NavyGrunt

They're still painted most of the time. What was the Merch like?


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## Ex-Dragoon

> In all seriousness there are so many places on aMerchant Ship to hide things do you Ex think yuo cought every thing.?


I personally have not thought of everywhere contraband could be hidden but thats why we have a cross section of personnel from every department onboard. They know their spaces and they would know or at least have a general idea of spaces onboard another ship. We use the expertise that everyone has to enhance the team. It does no good to send a couple of Ops guys to search the engine room nor does it do any good for some engineers to search the bridge of a bulk carrier. I am sure we do miss some items but in the limited time we have we are very thorough and very good at what we do.


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## Cloud Cover

Searching in the Gulf:

Outside of the possibility of malicious conduct on the part of the crew of the detained vessel, there must be special dangers associated with boardings in the Gulf itself, such exposure to disease, or exposure to fire hazard etc. How are the boarding parties dealing with this, i.e. formalized training, or learn as you go. For example, when we boarded the Lin Mai in 87, unbeknown-st to us, there was a drug lab on board the ship, full of materiel's which were potentially explosive. The RCMP had us inventory the stuff and take it off as seized evidence. [keep in mind the crew attempted scuttle the vessel, so we had to move fast in case the hull techs couldn't repair the damage.] We had no training, and no proper equipment for this type of Op., but managed by improvising right then and there.    I assume things have improved somewhat?


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## Ex-Dragoon

Things have improved dramatically, a lot of the times we were regarded as the SME for boarding ops in the Gulf. Like any hazardous duty there are never any guarantees just ways to minimize and to be aware of any complications we might find.


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## TR23

www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11927&highlight=canadian+navy+boarding+team

Perhaps these photo's are all well known, but it's the first time I've seen any pics of this kind.  I have no experience or knowledge to base this judgement on, however I was impressed with these guys.  I would not want them boarding my ship if I was smuggling/transporting anything clandestine!

To all you guys pulling multiple deplyoments, and doing an awesome job of representing Canada with limited funds and equipment(numbers not quality) - you guys are doing an AWESOME job, and it is appreciated.  That goes for any sailor - not just the boarding teams!

PS  - I've learned quite a few interesting things from this site and appreciate the free education and info from everyone.


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## Navalsnpr

Go to the Combat Camera site and choose navy from the Select Category and then type "Boarding" in the second field.

The search should bring up a lot of pics


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## Spr.Earl

Hey look where his Loc is

"Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 735
Location: Republika Srpksa Krajina"

 He's making a joke as Ex.Army who served there with the C.F. with UNPRFOR or ??


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## SharkBait

Hello, I just found out about the naval boarding party from this site. I have been thinking about joining the infantry, but the NBP looks interesting. I have been reading about it from this forum but have a few questions still. What is the best way to get into it, the boatswain trade? How long and what are the chances of making it onto a NBP? What are the chances of living on the westcoast? If someone made it onto a NBP would they just train and practice that or would they do other naval jobs? Sorry for all the questions I just can't find too much info about this.
Thank you.


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## Sub_Guy

You simply walk down to the recruiting office and ask for the boatswains trade, but there are many other trades in the Navy that offer more (IMHO) than the boatswain.  

NBP is made up of volunteers from pretty much every trade onboard.  If you want to live in Esquimalt just let them know that when you are on your 3's when you are asked what coast you would like.  You select your home port division after your 5's course.

When you are on the NBP, you perform all your regular trade duties, and seamanship duties (cleaning the heads   )   

On the west coast when the ships go to the gulf you are taken off the watches, meaning you just do boardings and training.  I was told that out east the ships have their NBP members turn to for watches, what this means is that you would get burnt out as you never know when a boarding will occur.

Your chances of getting on the NBP team are pretty good, but I think you have to be 3's qualified before you can get on it, I may be wrong on that but I am sure that someone knows the answer.


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## SharkBait

Thanks a lot for the reply It was helpful. 
When you pick what coast you want are you guaranteed it or do they put you where they need you.
Thanks


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## SharkBait

also where could I find out information on what 3s and 5s are?


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## FSTO

All trades are eligable to be on the NBP

Must be QL3 qualified
recommended by dept 
Interviewed by NBPO/XO/CO
Phisically fit (EXPRESS TEST, but we are trying to up it to justify extra pay)

Once on the course
qualify on Sig Sauer/MP-5/870 Remington Shot Gun
Learn empty hand control, hancuffing, ASP Baton, OC Spray
Qualify on the Rappel tower

Once on the ship, you will be on call when at sea to conduct boardings at anytime
If you ship is deployed on a DCDS mission, there will be two teams trained (out of the organic ships company)
Once in theatre, the teams will switch off every two weeks (Up to command team) one team on call and off the watches the other team back in their department working and standing watches.

If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.


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## SharkBait

How often are you out at sea?
what do you do when your on the watches?
when you pick what coast you want during training do you get it or go where your needed?
if you work hard how long would it take from training to getting on a NBP approx?
thank you for all your help.


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## Ex-Dragoon

> How often are you out at sea?


That depends on if your ship is high readiness or not. It also depends on whats going on in the world and if the navy has money for fuel to allow you to sail.



> what do you do when your on the watches?


That depends on what trade you select. You can do anything that is trade related to cleaning your area of responsibility on ship.



> when you pick what coast you want during training do you get it or go where your needed?


The Navy will do their best to accomodate you but there are no guarantees. If you find you are posted to the coast that you don't want to be in, your best bet is to let your divisional system know this.



> if you work hard how long would it take from training to getting on a NBP approx?


That depends on the length of your 3s course and it also depends on available slots and departmental approval. Its one of those questiosn where there is no set answer.


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## FSTO

SharkBait said:
			
		

> How often are you out at sea?
> what do you do when your on the watches?
> when you pick what coast you want during training do you get it or go where your needed?
> if you work hard how long would it take from training to getting on a NBP approx?
> thank you for all your help.



You select your Home Port Division (picking your coast) after your QL3 course

When you join the Navy:
Basic in St Jean  (QL1)
Naval Environmental Training Plan in Halifax or Esquimalt (QL2) this course ensures that you are safe to go to sea
Basic Trade Qualification (QL3) this course is your first introduction to your trade and will make you useful to your trade
Fleet Exam (QL4) allows you to be promoted to Leading Seaman
Then go on from there


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## axeman

the boatswains  trade is over burden  116% of strenght means theres some dead weight in it some ppl ae realing or on med cat that they need more then they were really allowed to have . mehh it will happen


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## Sub_Guy

There is no longer a fleet exam for most combat trades, as completing the OJT is considered "enough"   ??? ???


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## Enzo

What of (R)Boatswain. If you're in this trade, you're still eligible for NBP training, correct? How often are the skills utilized on an MCDV (if at all)? With such saturation of the trade in the CF, are there opportunities for (R)Boatswains to join a ship on tour? If a MARS officer wanted to be involved with the NBP, would that individual be a team member or designated to be the NBP officer, etc... ?


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## FSTO

Slt - LCdr any trade, ALGONQUIN had an Air Weapons Controller (Air Force Captain) as its boarding officer for awhile.

But usually the NBPO is a MARS Officer. The A3 (Witnessing Officer) is usually the Slt who is being groomed to take over the NBPO's duties


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## mr_jangles

I'm pretty sure the Deck O is usually the boarding officer. I could be wrong though.


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## FSTO

The Deck O usually is, but it is still Commands choice of who it will be.


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## DogOfWar

Enzo said:
			
		

> What of (R)Boatswain. If you're in this trade, you're still eligible for NBP training, correct? How often are the skills utilized on an MCDV (if at all)? With such saturation of the trade in the CF, are there opportunities for (R)Boatswains to join a ship on tour? If a MARS officer wanted to be involved with the NBP, would that individual be a team member or designated to be the NBP officer, etc... ?



eligible? yes. Probable? No. There are members of the reserves running around with the NBP course. However they are the exception rather than the rule.


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## Enzo

My mom says that I am exceptional ;D

So long as there is an option, I'm good to try, can't take my hopes away.


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## DogOfWar

Enzo said:
			
		

> My mom says that I am exceptional ;D
> 
> So long as there is an option, I'm good to try, can't take my hopes away.



Riiiight. Well it is left over from a couple years ago when they were training teams for the MCDV's. Thats fallen to the wayside now....but they are talking about bringing it back. You'll have to be posted to an MCDV core crew. Which is a 3 year posting.(perhaps 2? :-\I dont remeber exactly)


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## Enzo

Sounds good, where do I sign up 

And she does y'know; she also says something about the sun setting, but I can rarely here her due to that 4-man band she has following me around playing the theme from "Gonna git you Sucka."  >


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## Ex-Dragoon

Bring it back on topic please or it gets locked.


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## mcdvnav

NBP teams still exist on MCDVs, but there are teething problems. The high crew turnover makes it difficult to maintain a team. My ship managed to keep our team current and qualified for one year-- 2003--2004. There are still active teams in the MCDVs.

Have we boarded anything-- not that I know of.

Thanks.


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## andpro

Does the deckO have to be on the boarding team or does he/she have the choice?


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## mcdvnav

andpro said:
			
		

> Does the deckO have to be on the boarding team or does he/she have the choice?



The CO picks his Boarding Officer. It's an interesting course,  that is worth the time.


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## andpro

Is this job a high stress job? Does it replace some of your duties or is it added on to your duties?


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## Ex-Dragoon

> Is this job a high stress job?


Depends. Every Boarding entails a degree of risk and no two boardings are ever the same



> Does it replace some of your duties or is it added on to your duties?


Depends on your ship and manning requirements but for the most part NLBP is a secondary duty along with your primary duties.

.


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## mcdvnav

andpro said:
			
		

> Is this job a high stress job? Does it replace some of your duties or is it added on to your duties?



I just wanted to add something to what Ex- Dragoon said. It's probably the most interesting secondary duty. It requires a lot of work, but it is rewarding. 

However, if you're trying to decide between the Navy and the Army. NBP is nothing like being in the infantry. You stand a better chance of going on a peacekeeping mission or other deployment overseas if you join the Army. I know the navy has been involved in many ops, but it's not the same as being in Yugoslavia or Afghanistan.

When I joined I wanted to be involved in a UN mission, the recruiter never mentioned that a MARS officer has very little chance of getting sent on a UN deployment. So, I've been doing my best to find some way to go on a tour, but it hasn't worked out.

Make sure you know what you want before you pick a trade.


----------



## FSTO

mcdvnav said:
			
		

> I just wanted to add something to what Ex- Dragoon said. It's probably the most interesting secondary duty. It requires a lot of work, but it is rewarding.
> 
> However, if you're trying to decide between the Navy and the Army. NBP is nothing like being in the infantry. You stand a better chance of going on a peacekeeping mission or other deployment overseas if you join the Army. I know the navy has been involved in many ops, but it's not the same as being in Yugoslavia or Afghanistan.
> 
> When I joined I wanted to be involved in a UN mission, the recruiter never mentioned that a MARS officer has very little chance of getting sent on a UN deployment. So, I've been doing my best to find some way to go on a tour, but it hasn't worked out.
> 
> Make sure you know what you want before you pick a trade.



Have you applied for HUMINT? Thats the best way for a MARS officer to get to go in country.


----------



## mcdvnav

FSTO said:
			
		

> Have you applied for HUMINT? Thats the best way for a MARS officer to get to go in country.



I have considered it. I am planning to apply when I complete FNO. I've met several people who've gone to Yugoslavia and Afghan with the HUMINT teams, they say it's a good tour-- hard work. 

Have you done it? What have you heard?


----------



## FSTO

mcdvnav said:
			
		

> I have considered it. I am planning to apply when I complete FNO. I've met several people who've gone to Yugoslavia and Afghan with the HUMINT teams, they say it's a good tour-- hard work.
> 
> Have you done it? What have you heard?


No I haven't but the couple of guys I've talked to said that it was a very good tour.


----------



## Embarkcuis

I'm looking into joining the Navy as a reserve NCI OP, I hope my chances to get recruited into the Naval Boarding Party is high, because I really don't want to sit at a desk all day long.  

Say, what's the career outlook for a Naval Boarding Party Member anyway?


----------



## Embarkcuis

so how can someone best position themselve to be selected for enrollment into the boarding party course?


----------



## Navy_Blue

Its completely voluntary.  I think there is one Ops trade they train but never use NCI OP or NIS OP???  They are needed for other duties during a boarding so we only use them when we're desperate.  Other than that every department is expected to provide a member or two or three.  Find out who your boarding officer is and let him know you want on the team.  It can be a lot of work if your operational when I was in the Gulf I wasn't on the team but I watched them do 3+ boardings a day on everything from wooden Dows to freighters.  We caught a freighter smuggling some gun boats into Iraq....the yanks were very interested in that.  Our CO was way to into the guts and glory side of our mission he wanted to "blow things up and kill people."   He was a nut bar.  

Anyways the NBP is a cool secondary duty. I have since taken the course and intend on maintaining it. You need to do and operational boarding or team training at least every 2 years.  I have done a few training boardings on Norwegian ships it was nice to board something other than your own ship.  I'm an ET so a more senior stoker and I go to secure the engineering spaces and control room.  I love it but I know guys that would never do it when they see what we have to do.  Can be allot of standing and allot of crap bc not everyone has the same standards for safety and hygiene.

If you want on the team...most ships you just have to ask.


----------



## 3rd Herd

Another perspective of the infamous video and theehing problems. I witnessed some of the first boarding party crse yeah mistakes were made, Sop was still being figured out, unfamiliarity with weapons( us grunts thought this hilarious) BUT a couple years after that on a CF day at Esquimalt I was with my daughter and several of her friends, the young impressionable types, we boarded the Calgary to be met by by a 5 ft FA female in black coveralls, thigh holster, MP5, and shades. Six girls jaws dropped and for the next hour this member provied one of the best briefing on the role of boarding parties, women in the military and any other topic the girls or I could dare to ask. In retrospect she was also the one responsible for interrupting five generations of cbt arms service, my daughter went navy cadet and next year is shooting to be chief of her corps. 
Bravo Zulu


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

It depends on your section (whether your NCI-OP/NES-OP) can afford to let you go. Sounds like individual ship policy. As for positioning yourself to get on the course, you should talk to your section but if you're an OS or new crew member on board that ship and you are not qualified I would not be counting on an NBP course any time soon.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

NBP is a secondary duty and should not be looked upon as a career.


----------



## Embarkcuis

Thanks for the advice Ex-Dragoon.


----------



## Navy_Blue

Yeah the OPS thing must depend on the ship but the info gathering type??? (NES/NCI???)  they like them to be a camera guy on my ship and make the off watch one(s) muster on the bridge.  Ex is right you kinda need your training packages done and be a useful sailor to your trade before they let you go.  Some times bosses are not really keen on loosing you to the team it can take up allot of time at sea and even along side.  If you want your boss happy with you maybe test the Idea out before you go to the boarding officer.  It is voluntary tho.  Good luck.

On the TDV note we watch that video on the NBP course and laughed allot.  Its like a what not to do video for us now.  Allot was learned from OP APOLLO and they have made many changes.  It is still a work in progress and we have become a model to some countries for how they conduct boardings.  The yanks tend to loose allot of people boarding ships with only 3 or 4 guys.  I think in 2002 the US boarded a ship in the gulf and After the crew was locked away in there mess.  The EXO locked one team member in the engine space and killed another on the bridge and sunk there own ship crew and all.  Not a good day.

I'm hoping when the Cyclones are out we might see some more training on Helos.  We might be pretty low on the list of priorities tho.


----------



## Embarkcuis

Oh my...
I knew there was some danger to the job, but I had no idea people actually get locked up and killed on the spot, hopefully not within the Canadian boarder anyway, but I’ve heard all sorts of nasty things coming up from costal smuggling rings and crime syndicate and all that.
The whole thing about going up to another ship, and not knowing if the crews on board had already got you numbered must make the job quite exciting… well I mean, if you’re properly trained to handle whatever comes your way that is.
I don’t seem to remembering reading this one on the news or the websites, has there been any history of boarding party causality in the Canadian Navy?

Thanks for your info by the way


----------



## NavComm

Navy_Blue said:
			
		

> The yanks tend to loose allot of people boarding ships with only 3 or 4 guys.  I think in 2002 the US boarded a ship in the gulf and After the crew was locked away in there mess.  The EXO locked one team member in the engine space and killed another on the bridge and sunk there own ship crew and all.  Not a good day.



I was interested in this because I don't recall hearing anything in the news. I did a search and found that in November 2001 two crew of the USS Peterson were trapped in a ship they boarded in the Gulf and died:



> The Sailors were from USS Peterson (DD 969), a Spruance-class destroyer homeported in Norfolk, Va.
> 
> The Peterson had been ordered to board the United Arab Emirates-flagged tanker, M/T Samra. While the Americans were searching the ship, the engineering section began to flood. Two members of the U.S. “sweep team” were trapped and went down with the Samra less than three minutes later.
> 
> The cause of the sinking may never be known. It is possible the ship was intentionally scuttled, but those familiar with the vessel say it’s just as likely that the rickety old ship just gave out. Whatever the cause, it points out the fact that boarding operations are difficult, physically challenging and often life-threatening


http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=2109

I wonder if it's the same incident and further details came out after this article (June 2002). I didn't find anything else on boarding parties being shot or killed. Can you give more details?


----------



## Navy_Blue

I don't think they were shot.  The story I heard back then was that the captain and the first mate had something to do with it.  If they were smuggling oil and the yanks new it they would be dropped off in the nearest port (Saudi or Oman) with the harshest sentence (death).  There was before the war potential to make allot of money smuggling oil so much that being an ordinary crew member from India you could live for many years on just one successful job.  If your caught tho it was game over.  I think it was old Sadams way of making extra spending money.

Canadians tend not to do thous boardings.  We're not equipped to break into welded hatch combings and portholes.  They have been known to string barb wire through the mast to stop air insertions too.  We leave thous boarding to the yanks unless its in our waters.  

They showed us a few horror story videos of Helos crashing, guys falling in holds, guys dropping dead in holds with no air (all USN, USCG).  Pretty scary if you think about it.  Its a dangerous job and they don't give you extra pay.  I'm not saying they should get extra pay all the time either but when your operational in the gulf it would be nice.  Bubble heads get Dive pay, Submariners get Sub pay.

In our navy I don't think there has been any casualties recently.  We've been very lucky I know the people who train us have tested our life vests against the weight we carry and they could just keep there chins above water in a pool (they're working on it ).  with a big ship right beside you and its screws behind you it wouldn't be fun.  I think most of us understand what happens if you fall off the ladder on the ship.  We have a diver with us on the RHIB but if your already sinking.

All in all I love it its a bit of a rush racing over to a ship in the RHIB with your MP5 your feel pretty cool.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Lets try and keep hearsay out of it and relay facts. As for non compliant boardings we have done a few, and if the folks at Sea Div are right, we are being trained for those types of Ops more and more.


----------



## SeaKingTacco

> As for non compliant boardings we have done a few



Witness!


----------



## cobbler

> Its a dangerous job and they don't give you extra pay.  I'm not saying they should get extra pay all the time either but when your operational in the gulf it would be nice.  Bubble heads get Dive pay, Submariners get Sub pay.



They dont get extra pay?That seems a bit tough.
By contrast Royal Australian Navy boarding party members get an extra AUS$43.49/day during bording ops. So being on the boarding party during a 6 month persian gulf deployment would ring in quite a bit of dough on top of regular salary and deployment pay.


----------



## FSTO

Cobbler;
We had the committee from special allowances (forget their NDHQ name) join us for a compliant boarding while we (HMCS ALGONQUIN) were on OP APOLLO. They agree that there should be an extra allowence for the boarding teams while in theatre. That was in 2003, nothing has progressed from there.

Here at CFFSE we are moving the training cell from Naden to the Work Point Gym. We will have the classrooms, offices and a large enough area for the containers and the rudementry sim ship. This will be all indoors. We are moving ahead in the simunition project and we hope to be training with it by spring. This is the interum step to the new project.
The SOCD for the Maritime Security and Training Centre is now at NDHQ/CMS and is receiving lots of support. It has now morphed into a Seamanship/Maritime Security and Training Centre and if all goes well there will be a new building and infrastructure on D jetty on the Colwood side. If things go well (which they never do) we may have it built by the 100 anniversary of the RCN.

So for all you army types who laugh at the boarding party and its training. We are moving ahead, it has been a slow process with lots of bumps and hiccups. We will never get to the level of conducting opposed boardings (that is what JTF2 Marine Section is for) but that is not what we are for. 

More updates as they come.

PS. For those of you who want to become NBP, get fit and stay fit because the only way we will get extra pay is for the fitness level to go to the diver level to justify the extra pay.


----------



## Navy_Blue

Roger That...Sorry about the heresay that was directed at me   :-[.  

I would love to see money.  We're getting a nifty patch though...yeah.  It would be nice to make it necessary to make exempt fitness level the standart to be on the team. 

I think I may have used the wrong term with unopposed, GTS Katie was technically non-compliant.  But when it comes down to it, we are trained well to deffend ourselves and do our jobs.  They filled us in last year on Team Training what was coming up the pipe munition would be an excellent tool.  Are they still talking about a better pistol with say 16 rounds and not 8?? I think it might have been more dreaming on the instructors part.  

All in all I'm not trying to go for the whole counterstrike thing here I really like being on the boarding party.  You get to go over to foreign ships see how they run things if they run things and in some case meet interesting people.  As an ET most of my life sailing is below decks so any chance to get in a RIHB and run around is welcome (not to mention getting off watches).  You feel like your really involved in what the ship is out there for.  Its nice for someone who is out of the loop some times operationally.

All the best guys


----------



## NavyShooter

I did my NBP training in the mid '90s, and it was, um, less than impressive.  This was before the MP-5 was even issued.  I ended up getting a manufacturer MP-5 course in Boston, and was one of 6 sailors on the East Coast qualified before most of the Boatswains were.

I've seen a dramatic improvement in the level of training of boarding parties since then, but there is still a ways to go (IMHO). 

Some of the issues I have is the non-standard weapons drill.....when handling a C-7, the order to "MAKE SAFE" means to drop the magazine out, do the unload drill, then re-insert the magazine (load).  This proves that your weapon, though having a full magazine applied, has no round in the chamber and thus is "Safe".  The boarding parties don't do things that way....and the awareness of muzzle control is, um, less than stellar in some circumstances.  Sweeping your "buddies" isn't a good thing when doing an entry to the bridge.  

I think some of that comes down to familiarity with the equipment, and the fact that the NBP on a ship that's not doing regular boarding ops is not handling their weapons on a daily basis, heck, sometimes not even on a monthly basis!

Things have gotten a lot better as compared to the first "boarding" I saw when I was on the Gatineau....but there's still room for improvement.  

One advantage our boarding parties have is the diversity of personnel/trades.  That's something that other navies have taken a close look at (reference to a Naval Review magazine a couple of years back)  Our NBP has the ability to act as a "Prize Crew" with members from each trade necessary to sail a ship onboard, including a BWK and Certified stoker.  There's an ET, signalman, bosun's, etc.  We have a capability that other navies are seeking to emulate.  It's something that hasn't been lost through the changes that have been made over the years to improve the NBPs.

NavyShooter


----------



## painswessex

On the Winnipeg during OP Apollo, we had alot of Ex combat arms trades and they ran the guys through there paces. We had a firefighter that was a Army Ranger who taught our guys alot of good stuff. I realise this is not common on all ships but you have to say that the navy will look for the most experianced guys first. As for the course, the USN sends there guys up to see how we run a course because while we were in the gulf, ships would refuse to be boarded unless it was by us hence we did 7 in one day and ended the deployment with over 130 boardings.


----------



## Navy_Blue

Some of the people we send on the NBP course probably shouldn't be there.  We've had some team leaders and boarding O's who were almost to gung ho.  It could be dangerous and you could see they were nervous even in training situations.  Not the kind of people you want running the show.  Our ships OP APOLLO team had a MS or PO2 Bos'n and a compatant Officer running it.  They had a really sharp confidant team and I think it had allot to do with leadership.  

Weapons handling is definitely an issue.  I was struck by that on my course.  Coming from an infantry (res) backround.  It was drilled into me that it was a tool not a toy and deliberate aggressive weapons handling must become second nature.  

In most cases we just load the mag on board and not cock it.  Not to worried about sweeping my buddies.  The Sig is always ready but holstered.  I think we're just expected to have superior weapons handling skills.  Some do some don't.  The Diver in the RHIB will tell you pretty quick if he has to stair down your barrel.

On my last team training session we had Irish observers.  They wanted to intigrate some of what we do into there teams.  NATO is very interest in the way we do things too. 

 :warstory:


----------



## TAS278

I believe we were on the same ship navy blue. The Montreal. 
I was on the team for that trip. 
We made a few mistakes but overall it was a successful mission for us and we all came back with our fingers and toes. 

It was a great experience. I encourage anyway who is thinking about doing it to get off their buts and do it. You will never regret it 

I was lucky and got join as an OS because the team was so short. 

Just make sure you put the request form in, otherwise you will never know.


----------



## supplyguy

To Navy_Blue        "I would love to see money.  We're getting a nifty patch though...yeah.  It would be nice to make it necessary to make exempt fitness level the standart to be on the team."   

                      Question for you.... What patch are you talking about???


----------



## Navy_Blue

In 2004 I did team training with the ship.  They told us we had been approved to wear a patch???  Description unknown.  When we would getting it unknown.  Hurry up and wait thing I guess.  All in all money is much nicer than a patch.

TAS we were on the same boat I was an OD Electrician on OP APOLLO.  You did NARWAL tho didn't you??  I'm off the boat on course now.

To the admins around here I used the proper term for...pulling the action of a weapon to chamber a round???  ("Load the mag on board and not **** it")  Didn't realize that was offencive...Sorry LOL.  

Cheers


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Unfortunately the censor is designed to pick up certain words and that is one of them.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

I am wading into unknown territory, so tolerate my lack of knowledge...please.
Would it be useful to have JTF2 trainers run the instructor courses for the boarding parties?  Usually uniformity of SOP's is the best way to go for tactical situations.  You would hate to end up with some new guys in your group that were on a boarding party from another ship that did something totally different that what you were doing.  
It also sounds like you guys are being tossed into a situation without the right tools.  So very like a member of the CF to get served a pile of crap and make a gourmet meal out of it.  Is there any possibility that the reason those ships in the Persian gulf would not let anyone but Canada board them is because they know you don't have certain tools needed to get into their smuggling spots?  Maybe you guys should have a drug/munitions dog issued to every ship.  I've seen what the Canada Customs dogs can do and they are brilliant.  
And for you guys that are doing the boardings, please familiarize yourself with the paraphernalia of what meth labs look like.  The ingredients and by products are unbelievably explosive and lethal to inhale.  If you find one, you should be pulling out right away and going top-high with Scott air packs.  
There is tonnes of info on meth on the Net, but this looks like a decent link:
http://www.kci.org/meth_info/meth_labs/

Or, if you want to get your computer flagged by the RCMP (like I just did) try this one:
http://www.homemadedrugs.net/

Good luck and watch your asses.  You guys are doing us land lubbers proud out there.


----------



## NavyShooter

Ships have a fully trained HAZMAT Cleanup team (CSE Department...30 people) who clean up spills/etc on ships.  We have Level B suits and SCBA set ups (new ones!!) 

I don't know if we have any info on cleaning up a Meth Lab, but that's why we have phones and such...call the RCMP or others for advice.

NS


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

I think it would be a waste of the JTF2 to train our guys for Boarding Party Ops, personally I think we have come a long way in the past few years and are only getting better. I know we have sent guys to the USCG to learn their methods and procedures and IMO they are the experts.


----------



## painswessex

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> I think it would be a waste of the JTF2 to train our guys for Boarding Party Ops, personally I think we have come a long way in the past few years and are only getting better. I know we have sent guys to the USCG to learn their methods and procedures and IMO they are the experts.



you mean MIO


----------



## armyvern

painswessex said:
			
		

> MIO



Excuse me?? What does this mean?


----------



## aesop081

painswessex said:
			
		

> you mean MIO



no, he means IMO..........*I*n *M*y *O*pinion


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

MIO means Maritime Interdiction Operations and painswessex I did not mean that :


----------



## zipperhead_cop

Funny, there is a semi-parallel thread right now about arming the Coast Guard.  Sounds like the Coast Guard aren't to big on the boarding stuff.


----------



## Navy_Blue

Canadian Coast Guard doesn't board much if ever.  USCG is a navy in it self and boards domestically everyday.  Our Instructors have allot of OP APOLLO back ground and time on ships which the JTF2 does not.  I think we're doing the training the right way.  As for toys we have all the gear for container searches.  The Weapons are reliable and the clothing and vests are comfy.  What more can you ask for??

Later


----------



## TAS278

More Boardings


----------



## Phrontis

FSTO said:
			
		

> Cobbler;
> We had the committee from special allowances (forget their NDHQ name) join us for a compliant boarding while we (HMCS ALGONQUIN) were on OP APOLLO. They agree that there should be an extra allowence for the boarding teams while in theatre. That was in 2003, nothing has progressed from there.
> 
> FSTO-
> 
> I'm going to have to call you on your memory of ALG's time in the GOO during Op APOLLO.  Surely it was 2002, not 2003.  Most of 2003 we were shore stanchions up in the shore office during refit, having returned from the GOO the previous October.
> 
> Perhaps the heat during all those boardings evaporated your memory, or was it the wardroom wrestling?


----------



## FSTO

Phrontis said:
			
		

> FSTO said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cobbler;
> We had the committee from special allowances (forget their NDHQ name) join us for a compliant boarding while we (HMCS ALGONQUIN) were on OP APOLLO. They agree that there should be an extra allowence for the boarding teams while in theatre. That was in 2003, nothing has progressed from there.
> 
> FSTO-
> 
> I'm going to have to call you on your memory of ALG's time in the GOO during Op APOLLO.  Surely it was 2002, not 2003.  Most of 2003 we were shore stanchions up in the shore office during refit, having returned from the GOO the previous October.
> 
> Perhaps the heat during all those boardings evaporated your memory, or was it the wardroom wrestling?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your right it was 2002 and yea it does hurt when the XO is 6'4" 300lbs and thinks that he does no damage with a flying mare!
Click to expand...


----------



## eliminator

I thought this was pretty interesting. For those of you who keep up on this stuff:

Naval Boarding Parties wear badge of honourby Sarah Gilmour
Download PDFSend to a friendBeing a member of a Canadian Naval Boarding Party has become a badge of honour respected the world over. Starting in June, members began wearing badges to signify membership in the elite group.

Any qualified sailor belonging to a ship’s boarding party now wears a small, blue badge adorned with a crown and two crossed cutlass swords on their naval combat dress on their left side above the breast seam.

“The Crown is the naval crown, the blue represents the ocean and the two crossed cutlass swords represent the traditional weapon of choice in the older naval boarding parties of the 17 and 1800s,” said Chief Petty Officer, 1st Class Kim Davis, Command Chief Petty Officer.

Only those sailors who currently serve on a naval boarding party and naval boarding party instructors can wear the team recognition badges, unlike the specialty badges of clearance divers and submariners, who wear their badges throughout their careers.

Canada’s Naval Boarding Parties became renowned the world over for their skilled displays during the Gulf War. Since then, navies everywhere have sought Canadian instruction for their own boarding parties. Each Canadian warship has a boarding party with about 20 members who are typically the envy of their ship, said CPO 1 Davis. “It’s quite something to be part of these teams,” he said. “The guys who have done it loved it, it’s the gung-ho stuff different from everyday routine.”

Initially, there was confusion over the badge’s content, as some confused the crossed cutlass swords for those adorning Army insignia.

“Once you look into it, it’s pretty clear that these two swords are rich in naval history,” said Petty Officer, 1st Class Scott Morley, a naval boarding party instructor at Maritime Forces Pacific’s Fleet School. “These guys are quite proud to wear their badge.”


----------



## Navy_Blue

I was a current member of a team before being posted.  I'm questioning weather I would wear something like that.  Does that go on an NCD shirt or jacket???

And really...

"members began wearing badges to signify membership in the elite group."  :

To many people think we're commandos most of us do this because we like it and it gets us out from below decks.  As far as secondary duties its pretty good.


----------



## NCRCrow

Lame...sorry..........the concept is gay and the badge looks like the Buffalo Sabres

Before you jump me, I did the Boarding Party Course....way back when Hootie was popular

Crow


----------



## navymich

Navy_Blue said:
			
		

> I was a current member of a team before being posted.  I'm questioning weather I would wear something like that.  Does that go on an NCD shirt or jacket???



As stated in the original post, you must belong to a boarding party.  When you are posted, you no longer belong to your former unit, so therefore you would not wear the badge unless/until you become a member of the NBP in your new unit.  When you do wear it, it is worn on your NCD jacket.


			
				eliminator said:
			
		

> Any qualified sailor *belonging to a ship's boarding party * now wears a small, blue badge adorned with a crown and two crossed cutlass swords on their naval combat dress on their *left side above the breast seam*.



Seeing as how this is dealing with _Naval_ Boarding Party, I recommend that the topic be moved to the Navy board.


----------



## Signalman150

Hmmmm....It just isn't right: it just doesn't SPEAK to me. The badge just lacks that "je ne said quois", you know what I mean?

 Naval boarding parties should epitomize all that is truly "pusser"...that elegant simplicity that we expect of the well rounded and competent matelot.  The naval crown is far too wussy and complex to transmit that quality. The blue color is all wrong. It looks more like the shade a baby blanket would be, not a good hearty "navy" blue. And to top it all off, those swords really do look more like cavalry sabres than something you would expect to see in a naval engagement.

My suggestion would be to go with something more like this:


----------



## Infanteer

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> the badge looks like the Buffalo Sabres



I was thinking more vintage LA Kings.... ;D


----------



## Sub_Guy

Lame badge full stop

Elite group?   =  Submariner Dolphins  recognized around the world........  Jump wings, those are elite..

I have seen this badge on uniforms in dockyard, it really doesn't do anything for me...........   I think that... Now hear me out on this one...

Our hats....  The crossed swords could have been placed on our ships caps... or something else

The USN submariners when they are awarded their dolphins they get a new hat which has their dolphins on it.  Identical to our clearance divers.......  We should mimic that up here with our caps and specialties....


----------



## RowdyBowdy

HFXCrow said:
			
		

> Lame...sorry..........the concept is gay and the badge looks like the Buffalo Sabres
> 
> Before you jump me, I did the Boarding Party Course....way back when Hootie was popular
> 
> Crow



I don't think anyone is going to jump on you, I think the general concensus is that that is one *ugly* badge.


----------



## FredDaHead

If signalman's suggestion bears fruit, it'd certainly be a motivation to get on an NBP.

Until then... the badge sucks worse than the RMC uniforms.


----------



## Phrontis

Perhaps a good idea gone wrong.  In talking to members of boarding parties I find most do not like this new badge.  One I spoke with even put forward the theory that it was intentionally made ugly so that no one would like wearing it and it would eventually go away.  

I bet it would have been more popular if it had stuck closer to the design of our other hazardous duty badges, like submariner, clearance diver, and ship's diver, with the traditional naval dolphins.  (Maybe a dolphin wearing a camel pack while pulling off a sweat-filled pair of sea boots.  )


----------



## Springroll

gravyboat said:
			
		

> How about a fat dolphin wearing state trooper sunglasses thinking he is 10x harder than he actually is.



Now THAT is a great idea for the NBP badge!
My husband is having a good laugh with that one.


----------



## captjtq

Frederik G said:
			
		

> If signalman's suggestion bears fruit, it'd certainly be a motivation to get on an NBP.
> 
> Until then... the badge sucks worse than the RMC uniforms.



WTF is wrong with RMC's uniforms? Jeez - how can you complain when they're retiring the 5s and you wear your 4s and Scarlets only occasionally...


----------



## Journeyman

Frederik G said:
			
		

> If signalman's suggestion bears fruit, it'd certainly be a *motivation to get on an NBP*.



Fred, I'm confused now. Unless I'm mistaken, being on a NBP involves PT; and you know that PT is "Physical Training" not "PouTine," right?  ;D

Oh, and that _is_ one ugly badge. Maybe check clothing stores depot to see if there are any old army "Warrior" badges still kicking around.

Note: I'm slagging neither MilCol types or any NBP folks here...just Fred


----------



## Journeyman

gravyboat said:
			
		

> *You are mistaken*.


That happened once before.....but the divorce sorted that one out


----------



## FredDaHead

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Fred, I'm confused now. Unless I'm mistaken, being on a NBP involves PT; and you know that PT is "Physical Training" not "PouTine," right?  ;D



Are you sure? And to think I joined the Navy to avoid the first kind of PT and get more of the second kind. "Screwed by the green weenie again!"


Aaaaaand... 



			
				captjtq said:
			
		

> WTF is wrong with RMC's uniforms? Jeez - how can you complain when they're retiring the 5s and you wear your 4s and Scarlets only occasionally...



My peeve was only with the 5s, really. I actually rather like the Scarlets. (Well, except for the whole infantry origin.)


----------



## mechanic_chick

I know people may think  it is ' lame ' . But , as an aspiring soldier who just joined the Navy and looking to be on Boarding Party.. I think it is actually kind of neat. Thank you Eliminator.


----------



## FSTO

gravyboat said:
			
		

> How about a fat dolphin wearing state trooper sunglasses thinking he is 10x harder than he actually is.



Now thats just mean!


----------



## Sub_Guy

Speaking as a guy who looks at the boarding party from the outside.

1.  If anyone deserves some extra pay onboard its these fellas

2. Those boarding party members that strut around the ship, like they are kingsh*t, and you know who you are..... Remember to take off your shades while below decks, you look like a complete tool box if you don't.

Boarding party isn't for everyone, personally I think going over in a rubber boat to an unknown ship for a search to be silly, but I am sure it breaks up the boredom of the gulf.  But then again, I am willing to dive in a submarine, and with a COTP, I am hoping to fly in a sea king!

The badge is way out to lunch, I hate complaining when I can't think of something better, but whatever, at least these oakley wearing cocky "junior" fellas have something else to wear on their jacket!!  Not that you are hard to pick out without the badge on anyway........


----------



## Navy_Blue

This badge is really wrong.  Should have at least stuck with the normal gold embroidery.  This badge would look sharp if it replaced the crown with an anchor and make it black and gold.  

I miss being on board for the NBP training it's allot of fun and it gets you away.  When your at sea its nice to see a few new faces on some scuzzy boat now and then, it makes you feel better living in your scuzzy boat.  To all you young'ns who want to be on the team its not for everyone.  You know when you have a bad team right off.  You also know when you have a good team with there crap together.  We had one A1 that thought crowd control and jetty security meant beating every "simulated" (PAT's) civi down zap-strap hogtieing them and leaving them on the jetty.  When we where in the gulf we had an A1 leave two guys on some freighter they were not impressed.  They called him the count after that  ;D "One naval boarding party member AH AH AHH"...Your first experiences on a team will decide weather you will like it or not.  I was luckey and had a good crew in general on the ship so working with them like this for the most part was good.

And Gravy your bang on for a good chunk of them saddly


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

I think you guys are all way too picky...but again I'm all for providing solutions instead of problems. I've been posting detesting the CADPAT for sailors and I'm not so sure about this badge either....how about just some good old traditional sailor garb for the NBP...as below


----------



## childs56

I always thought a Cutlas was curved.


----------



## Michael OLeary

CTD said:
			
		

> I always thought a Cutlas was curved.



http://www.antiquesofthesea.com/swords_guns.html  (third item from bottom of page)



> BRITISH NAVY BOARDING CUTLASS 1850
> 
> The British Royal Navy used this style cutlass with the iron bowl guard starting in 1845 and continuing through WW I. The blade has a nice dark patina. Length is 33.5".



Images - http://www.antiquesofthesea.com/1342_sword.html


----------



## FSTO

CTD said:
			
		

> I always thought a Cutlas was curved.


Your thinking about a Sabre.


----------



## eliminator

Just a thought:

 Do you think there's a chance this badge will become more "formal" ie wearing it with DEUs and casting a metal version for 3Bs? Or is this as far as it's going to go.


----------



## Zoomie

eliminator said:
			
		

> Do you think there's a chance this badge will become more "formal" ie wearing it with DEUs and casting a metal version for 3Bs?


Oh God, I hope not.

The only way that will happen is if they introduce a new MOSID for NBP members - making this job their primary duty.


----------



## Neill McKay

Zoomie said:
			
		

> The only way that will happen is if they introduce a new MOSID for NBP members - making this job their primary duty.



Not necessarily -- ship's diver badges are worn this way.


----------



## zipperhead_cop

How about making a logo out of this guy?


----------



## Rhibwolf

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> Not necessarily -- ship's diver badges are worn this way.



As are a myriad of other specialty badges, like EOD, Para, even Spec Ops Assaulter.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Folks while the badge might not be the greatest making disparging comment about those that do decide to join the teams is not helping matters, give them some credit and let them see this as a perk, we have so few things to enjoy these days.... :


----------



## navymich

Many have asked about the training.  Here is an article that was published this weekend in the Esquimalt News that will give some more details.

http://www.esquimaltnews.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=10&cat=23&id=734163&more=



> Intense training gives naval boarding parties international respect
> 
> Members of Canada's naval boarding parties don't mess around.
> 
> In a large building at Work Point, a former army base in Esquimalt now used by the navy, a group of 20 sailors undergo self-defence training required for naval boarding parties. Under the watchful eye of Master Cpl. Mike Janssen, the sailors learn how to use elbow strikes - a skill that might become necessary when boarding a foreign vessel where terrorists and related contraband might be hiding.
> 
> "As you're hitting, you come down and through," Janssen says as he motions an elbow strike to his students.
> 
> A military police officer who doubles as a national use-of-force instructor, Janssen instructs his students how to use their whole body when inflicting an elbow strike in a manner similar to a Thai boxer.
> 
> Dressed in blue uniforms, ball caps and combat boots, the sailors are split into two groups. One group holds large, thick pads up against their chests to protect themselves from the elbow strikes.
> 
> "Stop - get back," the other group yells as they aggressively move toward sailors posing as opponents.
> 
> In a similar scenario, the sailors conduct the same exercise using batons instead of elbows.
> 
> "It's awesome, it's very physical. Every day is interesting," Able Seaman Grant MacDonald says after he puts his baton away.
> 
> Petty Officer 1st Class Scott Morley, senior naval boarding instructor, oversees the training. A 23-year veteran of the navy, Morley has taught naval boarding parties for the past three years.
> 
> "It's very exciting. It has multiple dimensions to it," he says.
> 
> Aside from learning about how to apply a use of force with batons, elbows and other strikes, sailors learn how to use MP-5 submachine-guns, 9 mm pistols, 8-70 shotguns and pepper spray in close quarter battle situations. They're taught maritime law, how to handcuff someone, rules of engagement, legal issues around detaining suspects and interview techniques.
> 
> "It's law enforcement-based training," Morley says.
> 
> The sailors are also taught how to climb and repel shipboard containers.
> 
> Two containers, one on top of the other, are situated in the building at Work Point so sailors can learn how to conduct a search as has happened in the past on United Nations missions in the Persian Gulf.
> 
> "Our job with the United Nations is to search the containers," Morley says.
> 
> The boarding party instructors receive training from a variety of agencies including military police, Canada Customs, military lawyers and the companies that manufacture the weapons used by the boarding parties.
> 
> To ensure realistic weapons training, sailors use bullets made out of soap manufactured by a company known as Simunition. Sailors actually shoot the soap bullets at each other in mock situations.
> 
> "It's high-tech law enforcement paint ball," Morley says. "It takes law enforcement and the military to a whole new level."
> 
> While the soap bullets aren't lethal - they're not painless.
> 
> "It hurts like hell," he says.
> 
> While Morley is a boatswain by trade, naval boarding parties consist of sailors from various trades as specializations such as communications operators and engineers are needed for certain tasks.
> 
> Each destroyer and frigate in the Canadian navy has a naval boarding party of 18 crew members and two officers. Team members work in their primary trade until the ship enters a theatre of operation, Morley says. Then the team members focus on training as boarding parties or actually boarding ships.
> 
> "Typically they board up to several vessels a day," he says.
> 
> Canada's naval boarding parties have boarded more than 10,000 vessels since the navy began participating in international coalition missions in the Persian Gulf and Adriatic Sea in the early 1990s. Boarding parties are also kept busy searching vessels suspected of transporting illegal refugees off Canada's coastlines.
> 
> Naval boarding parties occasionally have to take an aggressive approach to boarding a vessel. When one "uncooperative" vessel with boarded windows and doorways sailed toward Iranian waters on one occasion, Canadian sailors were forced to use sledge hammers to get inside of the ship.
> 
> "We had to enter the vessel through drastic means," Morley adds.
> 
> But members of the navy's boarding parties have never had to fire any shots at anyone while boarding a ship, he says. Although there have been cases of broken legs, sprained ankles, heat exhaustion and contaminated clothing, no Canadian navy boarding party member has yet been seriously injured.
> 
> The boarding parties' activities aren't restricted to entering a vessel at gunpoint and searching for terrorists or related contraband. The groups also aid in search and rescue efforts as well as providing humanitarian aid.
> 
> The high level of training and the inclusion of humanitarian-related practices has garnered the Canadian navy's boarding parties an excellent reputation around the globe, he says.
> 
> "It turns out that some of the countries prefer the Canadian style of boarding," Morley says. "We've made a name for ourselves."









_Above: A Naval boarding party from HMCS Athabascan practises during an 
exercise earlier this year. Inspection of marine traffic in the Persian Gulf is the 
prime duty of Canadian navy vessels assigned to assist ongoing conflicts in the Middle East._


----------



## medicineman

Interesting article.  Pity the editor and the reporter don't know the difference between "repel" and "rappel" - to repel is defeat or push back an attacker, where as rappel is a method of getting down a rope from a height; I'd hate to have to repel a sea container!!

MM


----------



## Bobert

It says each ship's Naval Boarding Party has a crew of 18 crew members and 2 officers. Does anyone how officers are selected. Are MARS officers what they are looking for? I was wondering cause in the MOC description it mentions nothing about.


----------



## navymich

Bobert said:
			
		

> It says each ship's Naval Boarding Party has a crew of 18 crew members and 2 officers. Does anyone how officers are selected. Are MARS officers what they are looking for? I was wondering cause in the MOC description it mentions nothing about.



Just as the NCM members are selected from a variety of trades onboard, so are the officers.  It is going to be dependent also on whether you can be spared from your primary duties onboard.

As for the MOC description not mentioning it, it typically doesn't mention NBP for any trade, as it is a secondary duty and not guaranteed to anyone, or for any specific period of time.

There are many threads on the Navy board here on Boarding Party that will also give you some more background.


----------



## CrazyCanuck

Sure sounds like an interesting occupation, if I get in I may just try for that


----------



## navymich

Boater said:
			
		

> Sure sounds like an interesting occupation, if I get in I may just try for that



First off, optimism is a good thing.  Try for "when" vice "if".  Secondly, as I stated above, NBP is a secondary duty.  Your "occupation" is your trade.  NBP is a qualification that is added onto your primary job.  And lastly, you can request to try for NBP, but depending on your position, you may not be allowed the training.  This includes too, that if you are not yet trained in your trade, as that will take priority before learning something new.


----------



## CrazyCanuck

Well in that case when I get in I will see if my chosen occupation allows for the NBP


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

You will find some additional Boarding party info here as well.....


----------



## CrazyCanuck

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> You will find some additional Boarding party info here as well.....



I have searched this site about it before, I was just commenting how the article renewed my interest.


----------



## Neill McKay

airmich said:
			
		

> Just as the NCM members are selected from a variety of trades onboard, so are the officers.  It is going to be dependent also on whether you can be spared from your primary duties onboard.



Is there not a requirement for at least one MARS officer in a boarding team?


----------



## navymich

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> Is there not a requirement for at least one MARS officer in a boarding team?



I don't know offhand about that.  Of course on the MCDVs, that is what we had on the team, but that was the only officer trade onboard anyway.  I'll look into that though Neill, I am curious as to the actual requirements (trade wise) of the team.  Or if someone else knows?


----------



## Navalsnpr

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> Is there not a requirement for at least one MARS officer in a boarding team?



It is preferred to have a someone with a Watchkeeper's Ticket (MARS Officer) on the boarding team in the event that the ship being boarded also needs to be piloted.


----------



## medaid

I heard rumors that they were going to stop training NavRes NBPs when I was working at the PNE last summer... is this still going to be the case?


----------



## navymich

MedTech said:
			
		

> I heard rumors that they were going to stop training NavRes NBPs when I was working at the PNE last summer... is this still going to be the case?



On the West Coast, they stopped a couple of years ago.  Most ships were not able to keep a qualified team onboard, between course, contracts ending, or personnel being posted to another ship.  As well, depending on what else (ex. DC emergencies, SARs, special navigation, etc) was going on in the ship, either fictious (training thrown by the ship or by sea training) or real, there weren't always enough personnel left on the ship to man positions.  This then required, in certain scenarios, the use of a 2 ship boarding team.  That is, having 2 MCDVs sailing together, and taking 1/2 of the team from each ship.  As you can imagine, this would result in alot of planning and coordinating, not to mention the fact of the 2 teams requiring time to train together, which wouldn't always have been possible.  There are 6 ships, so there would have been a number of combination of teams.  Put it all together, and it resulted in NBP being pulled.

I am sure there are other reasons out there too, but that is the explanation that was given to us.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

There are usually two officers per team. One is a MARS officer with a bridgewatchkeeper ticket as Navalsniper brings up. The other can be CSE or MARS and he usually fills the position of witnessing officer.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Maybe an approach the NavRes can use is have a team(Alpha Wave only) ready to go when the MCDVs are deployed during SOVPATs or Fisheries.


----------



## navymich

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Maybe an approach the NavRes can use is have a team(Alpha Wave only) ready to go when the MCDVs are deployed during SOVPATs or Fisheries.



Hey, what are you doing talking sense, especially on a Monday, and after block leave too?!?!


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

LOL I am just starting mine.


----------



## Rhibwolf

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> There are usually two officers per team. One is a MARS officer with a bridgewatchkeeper ticket as Navalsniper brings up. The other can be CSE or MARS and he usually fills the position of witnessing officer.


Could also be logistics or MSE.  In fact, any breathing officer is eagerly accepted, because there are never enough volunteers.  PRO's NBPO is her A/MSEO.  Like the diving world, if an officer even suggests an interest in this secondary duty, s/he is snapped up quickly (space permitting)


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Rhibwolf said:
			
		

> Could also be logistics or MSE.  In fact, any breathing officer is eagerly accepted, because there are never enough volunteers.  PRO's NBPO is her A/MSEO.  Like the diving world, if an officer even suggests an interest in this secondary duty, s/he is snapped up quickly (space permitting)



I deally though MARS officers are used so if necessary they can bring the ship into a port.


----------



## medaid

Rhibwolf said:
			
		

> Could also be logistics or MSE.  In fact, any breathing officer is eagerly accepted, because there are never enough volunteers.  PRO's NBPO is her A/MSEO.  Like the diving world, if an officer even suggests an interest in this secondary duty, s/he is snapped up quickly (space permitting)



Really?! Wow... I'm in the process of switching over to NavRes, and well one of my biggest goals was to get on and complete my NBP Course and do that when I'm on a ship. Unfortunately...I learned that the trade that I had picked, well...doesnt go on ships much...


----------



## navymich

MedTech said:
			
		

> Really?! Wow... I'm in the process of switching over to NavRes, and well one of my biggest goals was to get on and complete my NBP Course and do that when I'm on a ship. Unfortunately...I learned that the trade that I had picked, well...doesnt go on ships much...



If you read some of the recent posts on this thread, you'll notice that the MCDVs no longer have boarding teams, or send their personnel on the course, so you would be out of luck anyway.  BTW, what trade are you looking at going?


----------



## Stoker

airmich said:
			
		

> If you read some of the recent posts on this thread, you'll notice that the MCDVs no longer have boarding teams, or send their personnel on the course, so you would be out of luck anyway.  BTW, what trade are you looking at going?



The MCDV's on the east coast still send some people on course, if there's room. I haven't seen a boarding in a long time, we did however used to do them but with manning problems we usually don't practice it anymore.


----------



## medaid

airmich said:
			
		

> If you read some of the recent posts on this thread, you'll notice that the MCDVs no longer have boarding teams, or send their personnel on the course, so you would be out of luck anyway.  BTW, what trade are you looking at going?




 Hahaha I know about the no more boardings with MCDVs, I heard about it from the instuctors themselves. I was hoping for a Reg ship. 

The trade I was looking at involves alot of information analysis   and something about control of shipping   ;D


----------



## Cayuga

It seemed like two of the biggest points from the last (MARS) career managers general brief were: 1) You can't go to Afghanistan until you finish your D levels and 2) Quit asking to get loaded on the NBP course until you finish your D levels


----------



## navymich

Cayuga said:
			
		

> It seemed like two of the biggest points from the last (MARS) career managers general brief were: 1) You can't go to Afghanistan until you finish your D levels and 2) Quit asking to get loaded on the NBP course until you finish your D levels



I can understand the deployment thing, but what say does a career manager have in the NBP course?  Sure, they can say that and the ship can take that bit of information and use it or not.  But in reality, if the ship wants to load you on the course, it's up to them, no?!  And just because you have the course, also doesn't mean that you will be on the team right away.

Either way, guess it's giving you the incentive to finish your D levels, eh Cayuga?


----------



## Rhibwolf

Cayuga said:
			
		

> It seemed like two of the biggest points from the last (MARS) career managers general brief were: 1) You can't go to Afghanistan until you finish your D levels and 2) Quit asking to get loaded on the NBP course until you finish your D levels


The AStan is understandable, as it is nearly a year long commitment and will definitely slow down your career as MARS, but you cant tell me that the MARS world will let a D Level Lt(N) go off and do a NBP course..... the demand for fit D Levels is just too high, and most of them are employed on ships and getting ready for the next big leap - ORO.


----------



## medaid

sorry but what are D levels?


----------



## FSTO

MedTech said:
			
		

> sorry but what are D levels?



Director Level Course

MARS Career Progression

BWK- Bridge Watch Keeping 
D Level: Several Choices
       Above Water Warfare
       Sub Surface Warfare
       Shipboard Aircraft Controller
       Information Management Director
       Navigator

Post D Level
       Deck Officer
       CCISO (the old Communications Officer)

Operations Room Officer
Executive Officer
Commanding Officer
Politics  ;D


----------



## medaid

AH! Thanks FTSO! Is BWK phase 3 MARS?


----------



## FSTO

MedTech said:
			
		

> AH! Thanks FTSO! Is BWK phase 3 MARS?



No, you get your BWK when you have proven to your Commanding Officer that you are competent to have charge of the ship (day or night) of a Frigate, Destroyer or AOR. This happens after you have graduated from Venture and have been posted to a ship. Once you get your BWK and sit your board you are supposed to have a minimum of 6 months consolidation time before you go on to your director level course.


----------



## Cayuga

Submariner and Clearance diver are the other 2 D-Levels...

You do up to phase IV at Venture.

This is the Reg Force progression, Reserves is slightly different in that Navigator is the only really applicable D level for the reserves. Not too much need for a SAC or the others on a Kingston Class.


----------



## medaid

AH! neat thanks for the info!


----------



## - m i l l e y -

I've just been reading through the form on the Naval Boarding Party.  I am relatively new to the CF going on two years, and have a couple questions regarding the NBP.

1)  I see mentioned quite often that the NBPO is usually a MARS officer, but it is ultimately up to the CO.  In peoples experiences, how often do Engineering Officers get the position?  I am a CSE (in training) and would love to be involved with the NBP.

2)  How far along in ones career/training can one (an Officer) apply for the boarding party? As well, how long, how often and where does the course take place?

and lastly, 3)  could someone possibly, someone with experience as a NBPO, give a little brief of the roles and responsibilities of an officer on the NBP?

Thanks.


----------



## Galahad

Or you could join the Army 

Hehe, just kidding, I wouldn't mind knowing this myself. Future MSE (hopefully) here.


----------



## - m i l l e y -

thanks chris, but that doesn't help much with my questions.
thought crossed my mind, but I think I'm staying navy.


----------



## Galahad

Good to hear you are staying navy, hopefully I'll see you in Esquimalt this summer!


----------



## - m i l l e y -

Likewise, but could someone please respond with potential answers to my questions?

Thank you,



> I've just been reading through the form on the Naval Boarding Party.  I am relatively new to the CF going on two years, and have a couple questions regarding the NBP.
> 
> 1)  I see mentioned quite often that the NBPO is usually a MARS officer, but it is ultimately up to the CO.  In peoples experiences, how often do Engineering Officers get the position?  I am a CSE (in training) and would love to be involved with the NBP.
> 
> 2)  How far along in ones career/training can one (an Officer) apply for the boarding party? As well, how long, how often and where does the course take place?
> 
> and lastly, 3)  could someone possibly, someone with experience as a NBPO, give a little brief of the roles and responsibilities of an officer on the NBP?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

One of the big reasons why they prefer MARS officers to have the position is most have BWK experience and if they have to, would be able to bring the ship they boarded and subsequenty arrested into port.


----------



## - m i l l e y -

ahh, that makes sense, but it is still possible to be on the boarding party as an engineering officer is it not?

thanks for the response.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

I have seen CSE officers on the teams (not a lot but a couple), not sure of MSE Officers though. As a baby EO though would you not have a lot already on your plate?


----------



## aesop081

ncs_eng 081 said:
			
		

> but could someone please respond with potential answers to my questions?



You know, if someone has the answer you are looking for, they will eventualy post it if they so desire. You asking over and over for an answer isnt going to speed up the process. People here try to help but we usualy have full-time jobs and things to do so we'll get to you when we get to you.


----------



## FSTO

There are two officer positions on a ships NBP, A1 who is overall in charge and A3 the witnessing officer (check documents, takes photos, interviews members of the crew - basic intel gathering). The CO usually likes to have one of the officers a MARS and the ultimate decision is his. If you get on the team and you are not MARS, you will likely end up as the A3. But don't be surprised if both the A1 and A2 are non-MARS it may be that there are not enough MARS officers for the OOW rotation or there are a plethora of CSE and MSE types getting their quals and the CO will draw from that pool. But as Ex-D says your engineering qual plate may already be too full for other extracurricular activities.


----------



## Galahad

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You know, if someone has the answer you are looking for, they will eventualy post it if they so desire. You asking over and over for an answer isnt going to speed up the process. People here try to help but we usualy have full-time jobs and things to do so we'll get to you when we get to you.



I don't think he was trying to be impatient, just trying to get back on topic after my pestering him. He probably just gets tired of me asking him so many questions, at school, on msn, and now here too. So if anything its my fault, and I'll try not to interject so much.


----------



## Galahad

Sorry to double post, but FSTO posted while I was typing my previous.

You guys talking about being to busy to take on extra responsibilities, as an MSE or CSE. Is that always the case, or just when you are in training, ie before you pass your boards and get promoted to Lt.(N)?


----------



## FSTO

As a MSE or CSE under training you have to get all of your engineering drawings done (much more extensive than the chicken scratch I had to do as a MARS under training) then there is your OOD board, AHOD responsibilities and then stuyding for your HOD board. Once your a HOD (Head of Department) you are far too busy and valuable to be running around acting like Hal Lawrence.


----------



## - m i l l e y -

Thank you for the responses.

I am also curious as to the answer of the question posed by Galahad.

I have meet a few Junior CSE's who have taken part on the boarding party.  As well, a Lt(N) I had while on BOTP was a MSE who spent time as a some sort of NBPO during his time on the west coast.  With all this being the case, the processes to how the NBP is selected and how it works is new to me, and that is why I pose so many questions.  

Also, as Galahad pointed out, I was not trying to be impatient, I was trying to get the form back on topic, I did not one someone coming on and seeing it all side tracked and advoid the points on hand.


----------



## Snakedoc

I'm curious if anybody knows what is required to be a NBP instructor?  Is there an instructors course available? Or just having taken the course is considered enough?

Edit: For grammar


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> I'm curious to know if anybody knows what is required to be a NBP instructor?  Is there an instructors course available? Or just having taken the course is considered enough?



Here out east, the Bosuns have several qualified instructors that run several courses a year.


----------



## FSTO

On both the west and east coasts, the only NBP instructors are Bosn's. The cell in the west coast has a PO1 as the IC with PO2 and ideally two MS as instructors. Currently they will get specific courses to allow them to instruct but that leads to a problem of having to send guys off on courses when they should be in the classroom teaching. There is a plan to have certain aspects of NBP instructional techniques embedded into the Bosn QL course to enable a Bosn to step right into the instructor position without having to go away on specialized instructor training. When I left CFFSE last summer, we were still fleshing out how this was to be achieved.

If you want to know more go to the CFFSE website;

http://esquimalt.mil.ca/cffs/SeaDiv/NBP%20Aid%20Memior%201.htm 
or to the Sea Training Pacific website:
http://esquimalt.mil.ca/stp/Departments_Web_Pages/Deck.htm#boarding_links

One other thing both coasts are in constant contact with each other to ensure that the training delivered is uniform for both MARPAC and MARLANT.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

I remember some of the instructors were suppose to be sent on the USCG VBSS Course, do you know if they went through with this plan FSTO?


----------



## FSTO

They use to send them there, but that was discontinued years ago. There is a Canadian Coast Guard Rummage course which teaches Cargo Ships search techniques but that is about it. When I left Sea Div we were concentrating on force on force training use SimFX and building the simship trainer at Work Point. We were hoping to get the first serial started by this spring. I don't know what the status is right now though.


----------



## Antoine

I'm wondering if this kind of training will be more frequent at HMCS discovery in view of the 2010 
winter Olympic games? The news and the unit web site were talking about it recently. More job opportunities for reservists next winter?


----------



## FSTO

Antoine said:
			
		

> I'm wondering if this kind of training will be more frequent at HMCS discovery in view of the 2010
> winter Olympic games? The news and the unit web site were talking about it recently. More job opportunities for reservists next winter?




They started training for the olympics last fall. The reservists will be doing most of the jobs related to port security.


----------



## Snakedoc

Though I don't believe any reservists are specifically training in the NBP role in relation to port security...at least from what I know at the NRD level.  Not sure what is happening on the MCDVs at the moment in prep for port security...anybody know?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> Though I don't believe any reservists are specifically training in the NBP role in relation to port security...at least from what I know at the NRD level.  Not sure what is happening on the MCDVs at the moment in prep for port security...anybody know?



Its been talked about in the _Maple Leaf_ and the _Trident_


----------



## Larkvall

Here is a video of weapons training for the boarding party. I didn't realize they also use C8s.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANu6yq1O07Q


Video of a boarding party in action!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9hYlTOEKkU


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

> I didn't realize they also use C8s.


 
We have had C8s since the initial purchase of the C7 family.


----------



## Smity199

I'm assuming that in the last couple years, with the growing pirate problem world wide that our navy might be changing its operational direction a bit in order to combat that problem, so correct me if I'm wrong but aren't NBP training being pushed to a higher priority?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

They are running the same number of course they did this year as they did in the previous years. Some of these courses get zero loaded because the ships are unable to provide the numbers needed to run a course. So its about the status quo as far as priority goes.


----------



## aesop081

Smity199 said:
			
		

> pushed to a higher priority?



higher priority than what ?


----------



## FDO

Last time I was in he Gulf the NBP used the 9mm Sig Sauer for a side arm and either MP5 or Remington 870 police riot shotgun. No one carried a C8 or C7. Even the shorter C8 was longer than an MP5 or shotgun with but fully stowed.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

FDO said:
			
		

> Last time I was in he Gulf the NBP used the 9mm Sig Sauer for a side arm and either MP5 or Remington 870 police riot shotgun. No one carried a C8 or C7. Even the shorter C8 was longer than an MP5 or shotgun with but fully stowed.



Some teams use it for upper deck work.


----------



## FDO

True, we use the C7 or C8 for sentry duty in port or tansiting through high risk areas. However when we go "away" we use the others.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

FDO said:
			
		

> Last time I was in he Gulf the NBP used the 9mm Sig Sauer for a side arm and either MP5 or Remington 870 police riot shotgun. No one carried a C8 or C7. Even the shorter C8 was longer than an MP5 or shotgun with but fully stowed.



I have been told we are looking at a new family of small arms but I have not seen anything to back up that claim.


----------



## FSTO

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> I have been told we are looking at a new family of small arms but I have not seen anything to back up that claim.



When I was at fleet school we initiated the idea of moving to the C8 for a couple of reasons; more hitting power, accuracy, commonality of weapons. The main reason though is that the Navy got a one time buy of HK MP5 and the darn things are pretty much wore out. But like everything else the OS and NCdts will be Chiefs and Capt(N) before we get them.

(Yes I am very cynical)


----------



## FDO

Have you actually been part of a NBP or are you going on what you've been told?


----------



## FSTO

FDO said:
			
		

> Have you actually been part of a NBP or are you going on what you've been told?


If you are talking to me then yes I was the boarding officer on HMCS ALGONQUIN during OP APOLLO. After that I was in charge of the NBP section (and other duties) at CFFSE Sea Div. Suffice to say that during our time in the Gulf we may have carried MP5, Sigs and 870 Shot Guns but we knew jack about the proper employment of these weapons. My biggest fear during any boarding was what we would do if somebody started shooting at us. I think I have gone through this in previous threads but when I got to Fleet School I made it my mission to get our people the proper training from the people with experience so that future boarding officers would not have those doubts. I was able to get the ball rolling but I fear that we still have a ways to go before our boarding officers will be anymore confident than what I was.


----------



## Antoine

I was watching several recent news and shows about pirates and NAVY and was wondering: what are the rules of engagement in those situations, I am sure they are not simple as us civilian think. 

No offence intended but what do you mean by you don't know what would you do if they started to shot at you? Do you mean that the rules of engagements are unclear when the enemy is not clearly identified, particularly if they hide under civilian appearance as pirates and terrorist do ?


----------



## dangerboy

Antoine said:
			
		

> I was watching several recent news and shows about pirates and NAVY and was wondering: what are the rules of engagement in those situations, I am sure they are not simple as us civilian think.
> 
> No offence intended but what do you mean by you don't know what would you do if they started to shot at you? Do you mean that the rules of engagements are unclear when the enemy is not clearly identified, particularly if they hide under civilian appearance as pirates and terrorist do ?



All Rules of Engagement are classified, so they can't be explained in detail beyond the fact that there are ROEs.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

FDO said:
			
		

> Have you actually been part of a NBP or are you going on what you've been told?


And if thats directed at me yes I have several times on several ships including several operational theatres. Have you ever been a member of the teams?


----------



## FSTO

Antoine said:
			
		

> I was watching several recent news and shows about pirates and NAVY and was wondering: what are the rules of engagement in those situations, I am sure they are not simple as us civilian think.
> 
> No offence intended but what do you mean by you don't know what would you do if they started to shot at you? Do you mean that the rules of engagements are unclear when the enemy is not clearly identified, particularly if they hide under civilian appearance as pirates and terrorist do ?


I knew exactly what my ROE and how to employ them. But knowing ROE and how to survive a firefight are two very different things. I will stop right there because I am likely straying way over the OPSEC line.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Antoine said:
			
		

> I was watching several recent news and shows about pirates and NAVY and was wondering: what are the rules of engagement in those situations, I am sure they are not simple as us civilian think.
> 
> No offence intended but what do you mean by you don't know what would you do if they started to shot at you? Do you mean that the rules of engagements are unclear when the enemy is not clearly identified, particularly if they hide under civilian appearance as pirates and terrorist do ?



If you're placed in that situation you will be adequately briefed on your ROE for that situation and lets leave it at that.


----------



## Antoine

Yes, that is exactly what I thought when I was watching those videos on boarding party as I found those small boarding boats an easy target specially if the enemy is well hidden in a higher boat carrying heavier weapon than guns, of course, if they (terrorists or pirates) know how to use their weapons.

Regards,


----------



## Antoine

Sorry for my last post , I have sent it before I've seen the previous post.

As a MARS candidate, I'll hope to get in and be part of your team, I have a lot of admiration for you guys.

Regards,


----------



## FDO

A2 HMCS Montreal, Op Apollo, GTS Katie. As well as NLBP back in the good old days of SMGs and very little training. I didn't meani it to sound the way it came out. I get tired of peole knocking the work we do without actually knowing anything about the work we do.


----------



## FSTO

FDO said:
			
		

> A2 HMCS Montreal, Op Apollo, GTS Katie. As well as NLBP back in the good old days of SMGs and very little training. I didn't meani it to sound the way it came out. I get tired of peole knocking the work we do without actually knowing anything about the work we do.



Fair enough.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

FDO said:
			
		

> A2 HMCS Montreal, Op Apollo, GTS Katie. As well as NLBP back in the good old days of SMGs and very little training. I didn't meani it to sound the way it came out. I get tired of peole knocking the work we do without actually knowing anything about the work we do.



Trust me I've been there so I know what you mean all too well.


----------



## mariomike

FDO said:
			
		

> I get tired of peole knocking the work we do without actually knowing anything about the work we do.



I have great respect for the work you do. Having never served overseas, all I really know about Operations is what is reported the newspapers.


----------



## silentspanky

I know the C7 Is a variant of the M4 Carbine and yes I found a sheet from a post in which I study with a lot of interest. I study it day in and out but is it the current used rifle in BMQ? Also for navy training is there any weapons I will learn to use? And for boarding which is something I want to be on the team for what kind of gear weapons will be used?

In terms of preparation I want to study and know everything on hand. Yes its all theoretical practice but what I learn today helps me and my fellow would be recruits in BMQ. I have been doing a lot of homework. 

Another side note, do I need to buy anything related to the aid in rifle cleaning or is everything supplied? *In short what can help make the process any more efficient and faster in the cleaning of the C7 if used for BMQ.*


----------



## dangerboy

For BMQ you will be trained on the C7 rifle.  As for cleaning materials my advice is don't buy anything, use what the school issues you.  i have seen students try all sorts of stuff to clean their rifles besides the issued CLP and they have occasionally done damage to the weapons.  I sure a weapons tech will expand on this.  Use what they give you and only strip the weapon as far as they teach you, don't get creative.  That is my advice.


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd

All bases/trg areas have all of the required cleaning supplies/tools for the weapons used on courses or general range practice. No need to buy your own stuff.

You will likely get very savvy on the C7A1 or A2 (if the new one has been phased in for trg centres). Straying from my lanes as an army guy, from what I know the Navy Boarding Party carries MP5s and Sig Sauer 226s as standard issue (navy types can correct me here if things have changed or been upgraded). The C7 is also a navy staple for guard duty and general purpose use.

The .50 cal is also a standard close protection weapon that you should become familiar with if your role/trade calls for its use. From there come the bigger ship-based weapons system (Phalanx, SAM and anti-ship missiles).

Back onto my lane.


----------



## silentspanky

Thanks for the advice, it is greatly appreciated 

Yeah that was my guess. Never under any means use things that do not belong. Simply said.


----------



## dapaterson

Properly speaking, the C7 / C7A1 are variants of the M16.  The C8 was the Canadian equivalent of the M4.  However, given the adaptations made in going from the C7A1 to the C7A2 there is a greater similarity to the M4.

But the C7's genealogy traces back to the M16, not the M4.  See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Canada_C7_rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle


----------



## FDO

S1T2 is correct. The NBP uses the Sig Sauer as it's sidearm. We also use the MP5. However some members of the team also use the Remington 870 Riot Shotgun. On board ship Bos'ns are also trained in the use of the C8 and C9 as well as the .50 Cal HMG QCB. You'll learn all this once your in.

My advice is, it's good that your very keen to learn as much as you can about our weapons but bare in mind that you will be taught everything in BMQ and NBP training. Sometimes you read something that is either an old SOP or someone puts somrthing out on the web that we have never done but another country does regularly. When that happens it's hard to get it out of your mind and it could be inconvienent. When you get BMQ you will be treated as if you have never even heard of a C7 and taught all about it and fire off enough rounds to become comfortable with it. As for cleaning kits. Go with what's issued. It makes it easier if you are using what you've been taught to use and less for you to have to carry around.


----------



## silentspanky

Well I just want to be informed on what I can have a glimpse of expectations for. I know BMQ training is all about the unexpected, pushing one to their limits and then striving to succeed. It is all about training a solider. I just wish to do as much Intel as I can so I will be not just a good asset but someone who does more then just clean sheets . 

On a side note is BMQ different then it use to be? As I am noticing its more proactive on positive reinforcement then the old yelling and swearing of how useless a recruit is? I know movies and what ya hear are different then whats been done in person. I just want to know what to be prepared for.

And yes shutting up is a practice I know all too well. Besides my Wife and mother-in help me grow selective listening and when not to speak lol.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Actually we use the P225 not the P226 as a sidearm as has already been pointed out we use the MP5 and also the Remington 870 for boarding ops.


----------



## medaid

Navy employs Sig225s.


----------



## gcclarke

Also, the boarding party will still use C7s when part of the Quick Reaction Team, which is used when in situations where there is no imminent threat, but where one could easily emerge, such as going in an out of port.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Not necessarily the Boarding Party....anyone who is tasked as an Upper Deck Sentry will be so equipped.


----------



## silentspanky

Well now, thanks for all the advice, So being navy I will use a C7 for gaurd duty? Or a .50 cal sidearm? So there will be additional training in firearms? And does this mean I am to be licensed or will it add to qualifications? 

*What is the best way to show I have what it takes to be apart of the boarding party crew?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

50 cal is a heavy machine gun _not_ a sidearm. You may never be tasked with upper deck sentry, my advice to you is focus on your trades training and worry about the Boarding Party later. Its up to your Dept on whether or not you can go, but all that has already been discussed in other Boarding Party threads.


----------



## silentspanky

I figured as much, and yes what ya are trained for stick with unless ordered to be trained otherwise. 

I may not know everything but I might as well ask right?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Ask all you want I am just pointing out that the Navy and or your Department may not always give you what you want. Every ship and department may have a different policy on what your seconday duties may be, I've been in this business for well over 20 years and will attest things may not go as you would like. Thats why its been suggested you take a wait and see approach. When you get to a ship, by all means let your immediate supervisor know you would like to get loaded on the next NBP course, and drop the hint you would like to be an UDS. 50 cal operators are Bosuns and loaders tend to be NAVComms or other Bosuns. As a Stewart, one of your main secondary duties is that of Casualty Clearing, so I would say the likelyhood of you being employed as a UDS are pretty slim. Again, let you supervisor know, but be prepared to be told no as you will have to get several packages completed before they will even really consider you for the NBP.


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Prior to going on course, you can google disassembly of the M16/AR-15, Browning Hi-Power pistol and the Sig 220,226 or 229 (almost all the same). This will give you a background knowledge of how to take the firearm apart, so you can absorb your lessons better. You can also google information on other weapons you will come across in your training to increase your knowledge.
However a word to the wise, don’t disassemble your firearm prior to being taught the military way and don’t be to keen to show off your knowledge prior to class on that subject. It just attracts unwanted attention from your instructors.


----------



## silentspanky

Very true, I just wondered what will help me gain the right experience for NBP. Advice I do take to heart. Being on a ship which would enable me to gaining more experience for NBP. But everything one does reflects heavily on BMQ correct?


----------



## silentspanky

Colin P said:
			
		

> Prior to going on course, you can google disassembly of the M16/AR-15, Browning Hi-Power pistol and the Sig 220,226 or 229 (almost all the same). This will give you a background knowledge of how to take the firearm apart, so you can absorb your lessons better. You can also google information on other weapons you will come across in your training to increase your knowledge.
> However a word to the wise, don’t disassemble your firearm prior to being taught the military way and don’t be to keen to show off your knowledge prior to class on that subject. It just attracts unwanted attention from your instructors.



I will adsorb info yes, But I will only acquire the do's and don'ts, like do not scrape aluminum (stay away from shiny metal) those things.. But what I learn in BMQ will probably be best with on weapon training..


----------



## gcclarke

silentspanky said:
			
		

> Well now, thanks for all the advice, So being navy I will use a C7 for gaurd duty? Or a .50 cal sidearm? So there will be additional training in firearms? And does this mean I am to be licensed or will it add to qualifications?
> 
> *What is the best way to show I have what it takes to be apart of the boarding party crew?



The best way to get permission to get loaded into the boarding party course (In my not so humble opinion) is to be good enough at your actual job, that your supervisors will agree that the addition of this secondary duty will not adversely affect your performance in your trade, or hamper your career progression.


----------



## FDO

The best training you can get for NBP is your trade. If you are a Steward then you will definatly have skills required for NBP. There is always at least one advanced first aider on the team. Along with that having a good idea about how ships are laid out in general will go a long way to helping you. Do not be too concerned about the weapons. In all the years that I have been on NLBP/NBP I have never had to fire a weapon in anger. I have however had to find my way around deep in the bowels of a civilian ship.


----------



## medaid

FDO said:
			
		

> Do not be too concerned about the weapons. In all the years that I have been on NLBP/NBP I have never had to fire a weapon in anger. I have however had to find my way around deep in the bowels of a civilian ship.



I don't agree with that sentiment. You should be concerned about the weapon systems you will be employing. Never having fired a shot in anger does not mean you will not, and the situation could not arise where you need to. 

Now, if you meant that don't worry about it for now, and concentrate on the MOC training, then I agree with you. However, one should never be unconcerned about their weapons, and the proficiency there of.


----------



## FDO

Now, if you meant that don't worry about it for now, and concentrate on the MOC training, then I agree with you. However, one should never be unconcerned about their weapons, and the proficiency there of. 

That's how I meant it. The young fella seems to be bent on the weapons and weapons only. While it is important to to know, understand and be proficient with the weapons they are only one of many tools that are required for the job.


----------



## gcclarke

MedTech said:
			
		

> I don't agree with that sentiment. You should be concerned about the weapon systems you will be employing. Never having fired a shot in anger does not mean you will not, and the situation could not arise where you need to.
> 
> Now, if you meant that don't worry about it for now, and concentrate on the MOC training, then I agree with you. However, one should never be unconcerned about their weapons, and the proficiency there of.



How about this? Don't be too concerned with your proficiency in the weapons typically used by a Naval Boarding Party member prior to getting selected for Naval Boarding Party training. Instead, focus upon learning your trade, proving that you've got a good head upon your shoulders, and general seamanship. 

Once you are selected, they will train you up to the standard required. It is after that point that you should "worry" about how good you are at handling them.


----------



## silentspanky

I am not into the weapons aspect, I just look for advice in which would benefit my navial career. I thought researching what I could somewhat expect would help me mentally prepare for whats around the corner. I know there is nothing I will know once I get there but I am trying to prepare myself for some of which is around the corner.

If you say jump, I will say how high, the old army saying as it were. I just want research into what I can expect. But as far I gather. Chill, have a beer and let it happen. Do not stress over it or you will be consumed.


----------



## Double-R

silentspanky said:
			
		

> On a side note is BMQ different then it use to be? As I am noticing its more proactive on positive reinforcement then the old yelling and swearing of how useless a recruit is?



I found on my BMQ while we did get jacked up, how bad it was depended on the instructor doing the jacking.  The instructors from the combat arms trades tended to tear off a bigger strip.  When I did my BIQ the jackings were much more like what I expected.  This is what I noticed from my course, but each course is different.


----------



## silentspanky

Well whatever will be in store for my future, It will be better then my current situation. I have a ok job, however the lifestyle for the armed forces I always was attracted too. Had buddies who are in, some in the states for marines/seals. Never had the guts to really proceed forward until now. 

*Due to being lazy and self centered.* I was pretty bad back then. 

Originally it was suppose to be SIG OPS. Then MP. Now Navy. I can still do more then that but Navy seemed interesting .

Out of topic: Anyone here play xbox 360?


----------



## jpgbrookes

Hey everyone,

Can someone explain to me the process of becoming a member of the boarding party?

Right now I am a Junior W. Eng. Tech working on my Development Package 1, MCR Package, NETP Package, and the Know Your Ship. There is a lot of stuff that I have on my plate as it is. When I was at the fleet school today, I was told I was on a list of potential candidates for the Boarding Party course. I dradon't want to do this course for the following reasons:

1) Already trying to get my trade and NETP packages completed.
2) I do not willingly want to walk into a situation where I can get shot at.

I already directed an e-mail to my career manager. However, he basically said that if I am picked to do the course, I will have to do it.


----------



## MSEng314

If you don't want to walk in to a situation where you could potentially get shot at then maybe you shouldn't have joined the CF in the first place.


----------



## George Wallace

MSEng314 said:
			
		

> If you don't want to walk in to a situation where you could potentially get shot at then maybe you shouldn't have joined the CF in the first place.



 :goodpost:


Perhaps you could explain why you would joint the military; just to clarify your position.   We are in the business of going into "Harms way" and if necessary shooting at people who may be shooting at us.  Surely you are intelligent enough to realize that.

On another note; there are one or more topics covering Naval Boarding Parties.  Perhaps a quick look at them would be in order.


----------



## aesop081

jpgbrookes said:
			
		

> 2) I do not willingly want to walk into a situation where I can get shot at.



 :

You joined the military why ?

You're in the Navy. You serve on warships. People shoot at warships. You've already willingly walked into a situation where you can get shot at.


----------



## brihard

jpgbrookes said:
			
		

> I do not willingly want to walk into a situation where I can get shot at.



One professional to another, please release before you have a detrimental effect on the fighting spirit of your peers. You, personally, are not what we need in the CF.


----------



## cupper

[/pile on]

Did you miss the part during basic training where they explained the purpose of weapons handling and time spent on the range?

Or did you assume that since you were accepted into the navy that this didn't apply to you.

My advice to you is to make yourself available for the course, regardless of your view on walking into harms way. It may not help your career, but it definitely won't hurt it. Not like asking not to be slated because you don't want to willing go into harms way.

[/pile off]


----------



## medicineman

Since there doesn't seem to be a shaking head smiley, I think this will have to do  :facepalm:

MM


----------



## blacktriangle

Brihard said:
			
		

> One professional to another, please release before you have a detrimental effect on the fighting spirit of your peers. You, personally, are not what we need in the CF.



Completely agree; but let's not pretend that we don't already have tons of CF members that are the same. I'm not saying it's a huge issue, but we have tons of people in various trades that treat the CF like a 9-5 or that would a burden/completely ineffective under contact. You are right though, we certainly don't need another one.


----------



## brihard

Spectrum said:
			
		

> Completely agree; but let's not pretend that we don't already have tons of CF members that are the same. I'm not saying it's a huge issue, but we have tons of people in various trades that treat the CF like a 9-5 or that would a burden/completely ineffective under contact. You are right though, we certainly don't need another one.



Fully agreed, and the gutless bureaucrats among us should be found and weeded out whenever possible, however unfortunately that will not generally be the case.

Someone who bluntly states to his career manager what has been said here, however, is a clear case of someone who need not be tiptoed around.

But yes, he's hardly the only one, or the worst.


----------



## cupper

medicineman said:
			
		

> Since there doesn't seem to be a shaking head smiley, I think this will have to do  :facepalm:
> 
> MM



There is this one:  :not-again:


----------



## medicineman

cupper said:
			
		

> There is this one:  :not-again:



Yes...thanks...you're the second person that mentioned that to me  :nod:, lol

MM


----------



## TSpoon

jpgbrookes said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> 
> Can someone explain to me the process of becoming a member of the boarding party?
> 
> Right now I am a Junior W. Eng. Tech working on my Development Package 1, MCR Package, NETP Package, and the Know Your Ship. There is a lot of stuff that I have on my plate as it is. When I was at the fleet school today, I was told I was on a list of potential candidates for the Boarding Party course. I dradon't want to do this course for the following reasons:
> 
> 1) Already trying to get my trade and NETP packages completed.
> 2) I do not willingly want to walk into a situation where I can get shot at.
> 
> I already directed an e-mail to my career manager. However, he basically said that if I am picked to do the course, I will have to do it.




Dude, the boarding parties of today aren't like they were way back in the Napoleanic war or w/e. You won't be fixing your bayonet and hacking and slashing your way to the enemy's bridge if thats the picture you've got in your mind.Most times the boarding party is used it's for settling disputes between ships and port authorities(i.e. ship doesn't want to pay some fee, boarding party comes in and tells them to figure their sh*t out,end of story) or to counter smuggling operations in Canadian or Int'l waters.Obviously their purpose is to board and take control of enemy vessels by force, but like many other jobs in the CF, it's quite rare for them to actually fufil their primary role on a regualr basis( with the exeption of SAR techs and CANSOF,among others).

As others have already pointed out to you, you're in a situation right now where you can be shot at( or atleast you will be when your done your trade training and are posted to your ship).If you had problems with this you should have thought of that before you joined up.There are loads of people who would jump at the chance to do a Naval boarding party course, it can be an awesome experience if you apply yourself.

Hell, I'm not even in the Navy and I want to do the Boarding Party course ;D. Do the course.Take it in your stride and get your act together when it comes to "being shot at".Just my  :2c: Good luck


----------



## jpgbrookes

TSpoon said:
			
		

> Dude, the boarding parties of today aren't like they were way back in the Napoleanic war or w/e. You won't be fixing your bayonet and hacking and slashing your way to the enemy's bridge if thats the picture you've got in your mind.Most times the boarding party is used it's for settling disputes between ships and port authorities(i.e. ship doesn't want to pay some fee, boarding party comes in and tells them to figure their **** out,end of story) or to counter smuggling operations in Canadian or Int'l waters.Obviously their purpose is to board and take control of enemy vessels by force, but like many other jobs in the CF, it's quite rare for them to actually fufil their primary role on a regualr basis( with the exeption of SAR techs and CANSOF,among others).
> 
> As others have already pointed out to you, you're in a situation right now where you can be shot at( or atleast you will be when your done your trade training and are posted to your ship).If you had problems with this you should have thought of that before you joined up.There are loads of people who would jump at the chance to do a Naval boarding party course, it can be an awesome experience if you apply yourself.
> 
> Hell, I'm not even in the Navy and I want to do the Boarding Party course ;D. Do the course.Take it in your stride and get your act together when it comes to "being shot at".Just my  :2c: Good luck



Thank you to everyone for putting things into perspective. I'm not going to apologize for what I said before, but you all are right about me having to sort my **** out about being in the line of fire. Whats done is done, so I might as well make the best of it.


----------



## SeaKingTacco

No it is not done.

Seriously, if you have a moral objection to being placed in a situation where shots are being traded, you need to re-think being in the military, period.  I don't say that to be mean to you, but the profession of arms may not be for you.

If it is just a matter of you being nervous or scared of the concept of being on the Boarding Party-relax.  Plenty of people are scared of things like that. Go give it you best try- you might just discover something new and fun abou the Navy.


----------



## dimsum

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> No it is not done.
> 
> Seriously, if you have a moral objection to being placed in a situation where shots are being traded, you need to re-think being in the military, period.  I don't say that to be mean to you, but the profession of arms may not be for you.



Exactly.  Always remember that you can easily be posted/deployed to something completely different than what you thought you'd be doing.  

Case in point:  When I finished Nav school, I was posted to an Aurora squadron.  4 months later I was in Afghanistan in a non-flying (well, not physically in the air) role for 6 months.  For our group, that wasn't even uncommon to be plucked out of whatever unit and tossed there.


----------



## jpgbrookes

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> No it is not done.
> 
> Seriously, if you have a moral objection to being placed in a situation where shots are being traded, you need to re-think being in the military, period.  I don't say that to be mean to you, but the profession of arms may not be for you.
> 
> If it is just a matter of you being nervous or scared of the concept of being on the Boarding Party-relax.  Plenty of people are scared of things like that. Go give it you best try- you might just discover something new and fun abou the Navy.



Its definitely the latter. Your right though, I should at least give it a try before passing judgement.


----------



## CombatDoc

TSpoon said:
			
		

> Dude, the boarding parties of today aren't like they were way back in the Napoleanic war or w/e. You won't be fixing your bayonet and hacking and slashing your way to the enemy's bridge if thats the picture you've got in your mind.Most times the boarding party is used it's for settling disputes between ships and port authorities(i.e. ship doesn't want to pay some fee, boarding party comes in and tells them to figure their **** out,end of story) or to counter smuggling operations in Canadian or Int'l waters.Obviously their purpose is to board and take control of enemy vessels by force, but like many other jobs in the CF, it's quite rare for them to actually fufil their primary role on a regualr basis( with the exeption of SAR techs and CANSOF,among others).
> 
> Hell, I'm not even in the Navy and I want to do the Boarding Party course ;D.


Dude, your idea of what a boarding party does is pure fantasy on your part.  Are you seriously trying to tell us that a ship's boarding party would storm the harbourmaster's office if there was a dispute over moorage fees? Really??  Furthermore, your comment that their purpose is to take control of enemy vessels by force is also false.  Naval Boarding Parties (NBP) conduct  unopposed boardings i.e. the ship agrees to let them aboard.  

NBP are not in the business of fast-roping onto hostile vessels and using Tommy-Tactical Ninja techniques to subdue all the bad guys.  Walts need not apply for NBP training.


----------



## dogger1936

jpgbrookes said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> 
> Can someone explain to me the process of becoming a member of the boarding party?
> 
> Right now I am a Junior W. Eng. Tech working on my Development Package 1, MCR Package, NETP Package, and the Know Your Ship. There is a lot of stuff that I have on my plate as it is. When I was at the fleet school today, I was told I was on a list of potential candidates for the Boarding Party course. I dradon't want to do this course for the following reasons:
> 
> 1) Already trying to get my trade and NETP packages completed.
> 2) I do not willingly want to walk into a situation where I can get shot at.
> 
> I already directed an e-mail to my career manager. However, he basically said that if I am picked to do the course, I will have to do it.



Getting shot aint bad. Getting hit hurts but build's your rep if you live. It's a great way of putting life into perspective and a good rush/bit of fun to knit the dull pieces together. If I was your Cheif I would A) Eat your heart for emailing the career manager B) Counsel you on having a lack of moral fiber. And remind you to get use to taking courses that while may not appeal to you is there to build up your lack of skillset. And make you able to be employed in a wider fashion by your superiors.


----------



## fraserdw

You need a little military discipline.  We have chain of command for a reason and we all get to do what we are told to do.


----------



## aesop081

jpgbrookes said:
			
		

> I already directed an e-mail to my career manager.



Non-career courses are not a career manager responsability.


----------



## NavyShooter

Um....ok, Mr Brookes seems to be coming to the realization that he needs to step outside his box and accept that there may be occasions in the military when his life is in jeapordy.  Good first step, however, it's something you should have realized before signing up.

Of note, in today's world, you're much more likely to get shot at than ever before in the Navy....true story, happened to me a couple of times....last year....when I was at sea.  *shrug*

As a Junior WEng Technician, your first priority is your shipboard and trades training, with outside coursing being a lower priority.  That said, if your gaining unit feels it would be a good idea to put you on the NBP course (Note, as mentioned, it is a non-career course, and not managed by your CM, so don't whine to him about not wanting to go on it....I'm surprised he responded instead of just deleting the e-mail!) maybe that unit has a plan for your employment.

Of note, because of the HUGE number of WEng JR guys coming to the fleet, it's difficult for all of them to get sea time....particularly with ships going into FELEX...so if your unit wants to get you NBP training, that makes you MORE desireable to take to sea, meaning you're actually MORE likely than your peers to go to sea, which will allow you to complete your training sooner....

If you decide that being shot at isn't for you, then you should talk to your divisional chain about it (just like you should have done before e-mailing your Career manager!!!) and arrange for a visit to the BPSO to see if they can help you get a public service job.

NS


----------



## Navalsnpr

http://www.cfd-cdf.forces.gc.ca/sites/page-eng.asp?page=10831

Core Military Values:

Accepting unlimited liability. Unlimited liability is the fundamental condition under which all members of the CF serve. They are required to accept, without reservation, that they must carry out their missions and tasks regardless of personal discomfort, fear, or danger. Unlimited liability is the cornerstone of military service and distinguishes CF members from their civilian counterparts.


----------



## Marlin Spike

Shot at?  I have instructed NBP and have been fully involved with its training and development for years. I can tell you that the Navy has never Shot at, or been shot at, during boarding operations to date.


----------



## MJP

Marlin Spike said:
			
		

> Shot at?  I have instructed NBP and have been fully involved with its training and development for years. I can tell you that the Navy has never Shot at, or been shot at, during boarding operations to date.


I don't understand where you are coming from?

What does not having been shot at have to do with anything?  The fact is they can get shot at, just like any other member of the CF.  The OP expressed some concerns about it and the board told him what unlimited liability means.  That a NBP hasn't been shot at or had to shoot yet means SFA.


----------



## jollyjacktar

Marlin Spike said:
			
		

> Shot at?  I have instructed NBP and have been fully involved with its training and development for years. I can tell you that the Navy has never Shot at, or been shot at, during boarding operations to date.


Maybe not at sea, but NBP members were assisting in the sandbox and that was a two way range at times.


----------



## Marlin Spike

Yes you are absolutely right.. Its important to recognize the Navy's contribution in Afghanistan, as it was far greater than people realize..  I just get touchy when it comes to NBP and the use of force, thus, because there are several sailors out there that are telling stories about Boarding operations that are just plain "untrue"  I had one guy (WENG Tech) telling his wife that he had trouble sleeping because he had to shoot a guy on a boarding, of course she believed him and then went to work and told her office mates, and the story just kept rolling and the real problem is that the world really isn't that big and so eventually it gets back to people who are in the know..


----------



## jollyjacktar

You're right as well.  Knock on wood, we've not had that kind of contact to date and I truly hope we don't either.  I'm not a big fan of how the NBP organized in some instances and would hate to see some of these folks get put into the fire so to speak.


----------



## MJP

Marlin Spike said:
			
		

> Yes you are absolutely right.. Its important to recognize the Navy's contribution in Afghanistan, as it was far greater than people realize..  I just get touchy when it comes to NBP and the use of force, thus, because there are several sailors out there that are telling stories about Boarding operations that are just plain "untrue"



Ahh I see what you are talking about now...context is everything.  :nod:


----------



## CombatDoc

Marlin Spike said:
			
		

> I had one guy (WENG Tech) telling his wife that he had trouble sleeping because he had to shoot a guy on a boarding, of course she believed him and then went to work and told her office mates, and the story just kept rolling and the real problem is that the world really isn't that big and so eventually it gets back to people who are in the know..


What's his first name...Walter?


----------



## NavyShooter

Last name Mitty....


----------



## Marlin Spike

No names. I'm sure you've seen the type as we all have..


----------



## Journeyman

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Maybe not at sea, but NBP members were assisting in the sandbox and that was a two way range at times.


What does "assisting" mean? Were they employed as NBP, or were they just deployed in ATR positions where "two-way range" is an irrelevant term, similar to what the aforementioned Walter Mitty may use?


----------



## wesleyd

Not sure if this is on topic. 
I was on deployment in the Gulf years ago. The BOSUN's were teaching people how to fire .50 Cal so they could man the weapon during choke point transits.
One particular person would not fire the weapon as they were afraid that they might kill some fish as they shot into the water.
This person was coddled and told that their actions were OK. The rest of the people in that group did not feel the same, we knew that if that person was the only person left to man the weapon the rest of the ship was in deep trouble. Luckly we did not have to fire any shots but the risk was there, yet this person still stayed deployed for the remainder of the trip.

The comments about NBP pers telling tall tales is nothing new. From my experience the biggest risk while boarding boats is the filthiness you are exposed to. The weapons we carry are only for self defence in the event someone has a concealed weapon. It just gives us the ability to defend ourselves and the rest of the team accordinly.

No one wants to get shot but when you sign up and are sworn in you are employed at the Crown's leisure. CF members are expected to go into harms way if told to without question. If they don't do this the system would not work.


----------



## CombatDoc

Marlin Spike said:
			
		

> No names. I'm sure you've seen the type as we all have..


Marlin Spike, if you google "Walter Mitty" you'll understand my and NS' reference.  We weren't asking you to identify this member (no names, no pack drill) on the web.


----------



## dapaterson

Journeyman said:
			
		

> What does "assisting" mean? Were they employed as NBP, or were they just deployed in ATR positions where "two-way range" is an irrelevant term, similar to what the aforementioned Walter Mitty may use?



To be fair to the rum-sozzled sodomites with a penchant for the lash senior service, many of the EOD operators who deployed were from the RCN.  (Or, at the time, Maritime Command)


----------



## Journeyman

dapaterson said:
			
		

> .....many of the EOD operators who deployed were from the RCN.


I'm well aware. As far as I know, they were all Clearance Divers, not Bo'suns.....hence my asking.


----------



## winnipegoo7

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I'm well aware. As far as I know, they were all Clearance Divers, not Bo'suns.....hence my asking.



PM


----------



## Marlin Spike

I can tell you that we sent personnel from all trades in the navy and several of them were BOSNs ..  I'm not sure where this post took this left turn but if this is just a sight for people to blow their horns then I'm not sure I'm into that.. If you want to talk NBP I'm your guy as I've been involved with it from the ground floor until where it is today..


----------



## Marlin Spike

for the record, short version for Boatswain in Canada is Bosn and Bosun is American..  microsoft office has really messed with tradition


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Oooooo, schooling Journeyman. Cool ;D


----------



## brihard

We've got a guy who is in a position to know his stuff on that particular aspect of the CF. I don't see what the issue is if he's pitching in his knowledge on this, particularly given what the thread is about. I'm not gonna pretend to know much about NBP, I value that we have an active member here now who does.

Maybe everyone scan and breathe for a sec before we carry on? No reason for anything to be getting ramped up here.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Brihard said:
			
		

> We've got a guy who is in a position to know his stuff on that particular aspect of the CF. I don't see what the issue is if he's pitching in his knowledge on this, particularly given what the thread is about. I'm not gonna pretend to know much about NBP, I value that we have an active member here now who does.
> 
> Maybe everyone scan and breathe for a sec before we carry on? No reason for anything to be getting ramped up here.



I don't think anyone is getting carried away or ramped up.


----------



## Journeyman

There was a comment about NBP in theatre; I merely asked for details. The question was answered, (unfortunately via PM so the answer still isn't common knowledge), by winnipegoo7 and I thanked him.

Marlin Spike subsequently brought his "from the ground floor up" expertise to bear by offering the correct abbreviation for Boatswain.


If that's considered "getting ramped up," it's going to be a painful day for the 'report to mod' function.


----------



## Good2Golf

So Bos'n is incorrect, then?


----------



## Marlin Spike

its accepted or used,  but the correct way is Bosn


----------



## jollyjacktar

Journeyman said:
			
		

> What does "assisting" mean? Were they employed as NBP, or were they just deployed in ATR positions where "two-way range" is an irrelevant term, similar to what the aforementioned Walter Mitty may use?


They were assisting the JTF, and the tasking was for NBP qualified personnel only.


----------



## Marlin Spike

understood... not the right forum to discuss the correct spelling of Boatswain..  however I am willing to discuss NBP with anyone.


----------



## Marlin Spike

Marlin Spike said:
			
		

> understood... not the right forum to discuss the correct spelling of Boatswain..  however I am willing to discuss NBP with anyone.



You are partially right. there were specific tasks for NBP qualified personnel only, however there were force protection and close protection tasks and many others that were filled by several other sailors. I can confirm this as i have 5 sailors currently employed by me who were there.


----------



## brihard

Journeyman said:
			
		

> There was a comment about NBP in theatre; I merely asked for details. The question was answered, (unfortunately via PM so the answer still isn't common knowledge), by winnipegoo7 and I thanked him.
> 
> Marlin Spike subsequently brought his "from the ground floor up" expertise to bear by offering the correct abbreviation for Boatswain.
> 
> 
> If that's considered "getting ramped up," it's going to be a painful day for the 'report to mod' function.



I was thinking the milpoints groin kick you gave him, more than anything. Didn't really seem to have been provoked.


----------



## Marlin Spike

Sorry for being a new guy on here.. It seems I'm trying to get involved with a conversation that is near and dear to my heart and i have just received an email saying I'm docked 300 mil points..  If I've offended anyone i apologize..


----------



## brihard

Marlin Spike said:
			
		

> Sorry for being a new guy on here.. It seems I'm trying to get involved with a conversation that is near and dear to my heart and i have just received an email saying I'm docked 300 mil points..  If I've offended anyone i apologize..



Don't worry about it man. I don't think too many people are bothered.


----------



## Marlin Spike

Sounds good... Hey I'm up for a chat on Naval Boarding if anyone is into it?


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Marlin Spike:
Just gave them back to you (milpoints).
It is great to have someone here with the expertise that others have professed (on ocassion) to having prior to now. You have offended no one.
Personally, I am too old for NBP but I was on the old NLBP on board NIP in the late 80s. What a hoot and I KNOW the duties have changed quite dramatically even since Op APOLLO.
I do have a question-While working for DMTE in Ottawa, I had an opportunity to do 'inspections' of the 4 Fleet Schools. I was suitably impressed with CFFSE's Training mockup for NBP training. Are we in Halifax getting something similar? I know some of these projects got sidebarred with the last budget cuts as Comd RCN made it clear that the major procurement projects WOULD NOT get cut (so it has to come from somewhere I guess)? That would be a shame as the Boarding Team is generally a key element of most deployments now. I even heard of an Old Man threatening to submit a Cat1 OPDEF a couple years agao because he didn't have a full NBP complement.

Pat


----------



## Marlin Spike

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Marlin Spike:
> Just gave them back to you (milpoints).
> It is great to have someone here with the expertise that others have professed (on ocassion) to having prior to now. You have offended no one.
> Personally, I am too old for NBP but I was on the old NLBP on board NIP in the late 80s. What a hoot and I KNOW the duties have changed quite dramatically even since Op APOLLO.
> I do have a question-While working for DMTE in Ottawa, I had an opportunity to do 'inspections' of the 4 Fleet Schools. I was suitably impressed with CFFSE's Training mockup for NBP training. Are we in Halifax getting something similar? I know some of these projects got sidebarred with the last budget cuts as Comd RCN made it clear that the major procurement projects WOULD NOT get cut (so it has to come from somewhere I guess)? That would be a shame as the Boarding Team is generally a key element of most deployments now. I even heard of an Old Man threatening to submit a Cat1 OPDEF a couple years agao because he didn't have a full NBP complement.
> 
> Pat


 Pat,  Great question.  The Naval Boarding trainer in Fleet School Esquimalt is indeed an outstanding mock up of a ship. It is used for all sorts of NBP training and is an active CEASS range for "force on force" UoF training.  As for you question regarding the CNOS getting a trainer. The answer is yes, although I'm not sure of the delivery date for the project but i will check with the boarding cell and get back to you.. I do know that the east coast Boarding cell is moving to a new location to accommodate the training and the mock-up.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Marlin Spike said:
			
		

> Sounds good... Hey I'm up for a chat on Naval Boarding if anyone is into it?



Are you allowed to openly discuss what types of weapons NBPs will carry or what the makeup of the teams are?

I'd be interested to hear how they stack up (ha) against an infantry section/platoon/company in terms of fire power and maneuver elements and leadership.


----------



## Dkeh

IIRC, they carry SIg Sauer P226 pistols, as well as H&K MP5's.

Of course, I could be completely mis-remembering. 

Marlin, can you confirm this?


----------



## MikeL

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> They were assisting the JTF, and the tasking was for NBP qualified personnel only.



Just to add to this,  so no one is thinking they were out doing DAs, etc.

To my knowledge Naval pers going out on those rotos were doing Force Protection/Gate Guard for CANSOF at Graceland

*I say CANSOF, as JTF2 wasn't the only show in town for Canadian SOF in Afghanistan.


----------



## Stoker

Dkeh said:
			
		

> IIRC, they carry SIg Sauer P226 pistols, as well as H&K MP5's.
> 
> Of course, I could be completely mis-remembering.
> 
> Marlin, can you confirm this?



No they carry Sauer P225's for now.


----------



## MikeL

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Are you allowed to openly discuss what types of weapons NBPs will carry or what the makeup of the teams are?
> 
> I'd be interested to hear how they stack up (ha) against an infantry section/platoon/company in terms of fire power and maneuver elements and leadership.





			
				Dkeh said:
			
		

> IIRC, they carry SIg Sauer P226 pistols, as well as H&K MP5's.
> 
> Of course, I could be completely mis-remembering.
> 
> Marlin, can you confirm this?



Going off photos they appear to use Sig Saurs(P225 I think), MP5, C8, C9 and a shotgun

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20090522/450_winnipeg_090522.jpg
Members of HMCS Winnipeg's armed Naval Boarding Party are seen during operations in an undisclosed location in the Gulf of Aden under Standing NATO Maritime Group 1 (SNMG1). Photo: Canadian Forces Combat Camera

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2012/01/24/cdnnavypirates-620.jpg
In this 2009 file photo, a member of the naval boarding party stands watch as HMCS Winnipeg participates in a port visit to Karachi, Pakistan. Ottawa was so embarrassed by a catch-and-release conundrum involving Somali pirates in 2009 that it ordered the navy not to take any prisoners unless they had an iron-clad case that would stand up in court. (Department of National Defence handout/Canadian Press)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/commun/ml-fe/images/articles/fullSize/12-17-02b.jpg
http://www.legionmagazine.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CTF150Inset4.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3No6Sl1nFZs  Naval Boarding Party training

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlhBsdPUbbo  HMCS Fredericton (FFH 337) Naval Boarding Party


----------



## Dkeh

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Going off photos they appear to use Sig Saurs(P225 I think), MP5, C8, C9 and a shotgun



Cheers, thanks for the info. 



			
				ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> I'd be interested to hear how they stack up (ha) against an infantry section/platoon/company in terms of fire power and maneuver elements and leadership.



I am also interested in their dispositions and maneuver elements. Now that I am thinking about it, all I can imagine is 4 man stacks of JTF2NinjaScubaSnipers waiting at the hatch of a ship. Hmm. I would love to see these guys in action.


----------



## Marlin Spike

NBP does use the term stack as part of their tactics..  the weapons are no big secret although they are changing  P225 Sig, MP5, C8, and REM 870


----------



## Jarnhamar

Are NBP members allowed to use the 870s against people or are they just for breaching? 
 What's a usual stack size and what rank would generally lead them?


----------



## Marlin Spike

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Are NBP members allowed to use the 870s against people or are they just for breaching?
> What's a usual stack size and what rank would generally lead them?



The stack size changes depending on the boarding.. A ship normally carries a 20 sailor team that is lead by a LT(N) to LCdr and the 2 i/c is a PO2 - PO1.   On a big ship the IC handles the Master and the Vessel while the 2 I/C handles the team and the search. Like any other military mission the IC is over all in charge and all communications back to mother (home unit) go through him..  so to answer your question, some times the team is 2 guys up to 20 depending on the boarding   6 pers is the norm.

Most teams have started leaving the REM 870 at home because other than the presentation of deadly force it is pretty much useless  for breaching most teams would rather use a rescue saw or an exothermic torch


----------



## C.F.L.

Can someone explain to me what one must do in order to be a member of reg force Navy ship boarding party? I have heard that it is a volunteer position on the boat, I have heard some crew members are hand selected and I have heard that they are now making full-time ship boarding teams that perform exclusively to that roll. Can anyone clarify this issue for me?

I am currently a Cpl in the reserve infantry. I missed my shot at Afghanistan and like my other posts suggest, I am fearful of never seeing a combat deployment for the next few years at least. I can not wait around. I am extremely interested in being a member of a ship boarding party. The Navy is constantly deployed and it looks like something I would excel at.  I would love to CT to the Navy if I knew I had a solid chance at becoming part of one of these teams, if anyone have any advice or insight to offer, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

I know this has been covered before, so do a search and you'll find stuff like....

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106738/post-1157994.html#msg1157994


----------



## FSTO

NBP training has come along way from when I was responsible for it. Although I like to think that me and my staff got the ball rolling when we pitched the idea of Simunition based force on force training to a very sceptical (and sometimes dismissive) RCN HQ. 

(apologies to anyone from the HQ at the time!  ;D)

From the Lookout (Esquimalt Base newspaper)

http://lookoutnewspaper.com/rcn-enhances-naval-boarding-capability/


The Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) is taking important steps toward tailoring its operations to confront and deter smaller, asymmetric threats with the standing up of a single dedicated unit that will provide an Advanced Naval Boarding Party (ANBP) capability.

“We are excited about the development, the stand-up of this new unit, and the unique and challenging opportunity it presents to all RCN personnel,” said LCdr Wil Lund, the ANBP Capability Officer in Charge. “It represents an important milestone that will enable the RCN to combine over a decade of highly successful operational experience with the ingenuity and abilities of our own officers and sailors.”

Right now, naval boarding parties are comprised of regular members from a ship’s company who perform these duties in addition to their primary duty on board. Once fully operational, the new unit will deploy specialized teams on any RCN platform operating in a high-risk environment.

Though traditional NBPs are capable of conducting basic obstructed boardings, the dynamic and evolving nature of RCN missions now calls for a new approach. The ANBP capability will allow for deployed vessels to meet the new level of risk and to provide other direct support when necessary.

With today’s naval operations increasingly concerned with providing maritime security in the littoral (near-shore) environment, the need for an advanced, versatile force that can respond rapidly to threats such as pirates, drug smugglers or small, nimble fast attack craft is as salient as ever.

These operations require a highly trained team such as the ANBP. Through extensive specialized training and careful selection, the Maritime Tactical Operators from this unit will eventually employ a spectrum of advanced tactics, such as hand-to-hand combat, improvised explosive device (IED) identification, close quarters battle, as well as tactical shooting and tactical questioning.

The implementation of this capability will be gradually phased in over several months, starting with the instructor training that commenced earlier this month to force generate the instructors required to train the first team. These instructors will develop an initial Enhanced Naval Boarding Party (ENBP) capability in the form of the first team of Maritime Tactical Operators. Once trained, this team will be ready to deploy, if needed, in 2015.

Utilizing the experience and lessons learned from this initial team, the unit will later develop a full ANBP capability and will be comprised of approximately 70-100 members from across the RCN, including both Regular and Reserve Force. Non-commissioned members and officers wishing to join will be put through a rigorous selection process before being invited to challenge the Maritime Tactical Operator’s course.

Selection for the Maritime Tactical Operator’s course is scheduled to run from Sept. 29 until Oct. 3.

“What we’ll be looking for most in candidates is that they’re mature, physically fit, willing to learn and capable of making logical split-second decisions within a high-stress environment,” said LCdr Lund.

On-going and highly successful operations, such as Operation Caribbe and Operation Artemis, are a testament to the evolving nature of the RCN’s missions and the important work it does to support maritime security in the littoral arena.

LCdr Lund said the standing up of this unit marks an important milestone in the RCN and will be a vital asset to its future endeavours.

“The end product of the ‘One Navy’ concept will provide an advanced and highly flexible capability at sea that will continue to adapt to the uncertainty and risk of both present and future RCN missions.”


----------



## jollyjacktar

About time they got the finger out and created this.  BZ.


----------



## jonsey

This sounds like an interesting plan. 

Will this also be a secondary duty/specialization like the current NBPs or will it become the primary occupation of those who make it through? Will experience on existing NBPs be a requirement of this new occupation or will sailors be able to apply directly to the selection process?


----------



## FSTO

As I read it, this will be your primary duty while you are posted to the unit. Previous experience will be an asset but fitness and ability to pass the selection process is the key.


----------



## Navy_Pete

This will be good if they get the right candidates, and stop pulling off the ship's company.  Really hurts to have to put out a crit manning for a cert 3 when they get pulled off for NBP.  Also if they are serious, they should have an additional fitness standard, so they don't need to ask a ship being boarded to lower a billy pugh for then to go a board.... >


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

This is a great initiative by the RCN, here's hoping we develop this further


----------



## Kilo_302

What do you guys think a deployment would look like? Assuming they train 70-100 personnel, would a platoon sized detachment be sent out on a frigate while the rest stay back and perform support?


----------



## dimsum

FSTO said:
			
		

> As I read it, this will be your primary duty while you are posted to the unit. Previous experience will be an asset but fitness and ability to pass the selection process is the key.



I wonder if this will be a "one-off" posting, or will the Maritime Tactical Operator/Officer eventually become a separate specialty/trade?  It seems like some very specialized training just for a few years; I'd think they would want experience and continuity.

Also, would this be limited to Naval (element) members or any trade?


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## OldSolduer

Good idea IMO.


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## jonsey

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I wonder if this will be a "one-off" posting, or will the Maritime Tactical Operator/Officer eventually become a separate specialty/trade?  It seems like some very specialized training just for a few years; I'd think they would want experience and continuity.
> 
> Also, would this be limited to Naval (element) members or any trade?



They'll probably keep it Navy only, which makes sense if it's supposed to be a higher trained version of the NBP. I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "one-off" posting, though.


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## dimsum

Jonsey said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "one-off" posting, though.



Someone getting posted to that unit as an MTO, then afterwards returning to a posting in his/her original trade and not expected to continue as an MTO later.


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## Sf2

^^ No such thing.

Even CANSOF operators can find themselves back at a Bn after a few tours.


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## Eagle_Eye_View

> Even CANSOF operators can find themselves back at a Bn after a few tours.



Isn't CANSOF operators a trade with their own CM? I thought I was more like an OT process now..


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## GreenMarine

I hope this does better than the Canadian Marine Project we had a few years back.  Where the areas of responsiblity were so spread out most of us "trail subject" drunked out. Keeping in mind most trail subjects were Army sup-techs, cooks and Clerks on ships with a few disgrunted ExInfantry turned navy that were voluntold. Still its all in the realm of a seaborn force.


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## Colin Parkinson

and you could call them RCM's  

The biggest issue is what does these mouths do when they are not boarding? I could see them providing security on port visits, but at sea and not in the target area?


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## chrisf

So... why not just call them marines? It's would be a far easier sell...


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## McG

TB said:
			
		

> Isn't CANSOF operators a trade with their own CM? I thought I was more like an OT process now..


There are unique CANSOF occupations for NCMs in CSOR and CJIRU.  Not all CANSOF is unique occupations.


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## Journeyman

Colin P said:
			
		

> The biggest issue is.....


No one's asking the critical question.  Based on the overwhelming attention higher HQs are paying to such matters, the _biggest_ issue is....



.....will they be getting special uniforms, badges, titles?   op:


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## Oldgateboatdriver

Of course: It would look like this:

http://www.napoleon-series.org/images/military/organization/GreatBritain/Marines/RoyalMarine1815.jpg


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## Kirkhill

And speaking of the RM:

Here is the parent group for the Royal Navy School of Boarding and Search.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/our-organisation/the-fighting-arms/royal-marines/1-assault-group/1-assault-group

It also teaches small boat skills ranging from RHIBs to Landing Craft, including hovercraft.



> 1 ASSAULT GROUP
> 
> 1 Assault Group Royal Marines (1 AGRM) is the lead for amphibious warfare and Royal Navy board and search training. The group is tasked with training and developing core amphibious and surface assault skills and equipment.
> 
> ADD TO FAVOURITES
> The Group is responsible for 4 subordinate units which deliver the vast spectrum of training and operations required in delivering amphibious and surface assault capability of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines.
> 
> Under 1 AGRM comes 10 (Landing Craft) Training Squadron which delivers trained landing craftsmen training as well as small boats, engineering and assault navigation training.
> 
> 11 Amphibious Trials and Training Squadron in Instow, North Devon deliver training that covers the area between the craft and the beachhead.
> 
> The Instow squadron also conducts the trials and testing of future crafts.
> 
> The Royal Navy School of Board and Search at HMS Raleigh in Torpoint trains both individuals and ship’s boarding teams to conduct the full range of boarding operations that is required by the Naval Service.
> 
> In addition, 1AGRM is also tasked with parenting the Assault Squadrons of the Royal Marines (ASRMs) and their Landing Craft detachments which are assigned to the amphibious assault ships.
> 
> These ASRMs provide the landing craft and therefore the fighting capability for the Royal Navy’s Amphibious Capital Ships, HMS Ocean and the Albion Class Landing Platform Docks.



With ships being paid off I presume there are enough people available to man this "new" capability?

A related organization with local protection and boarding responsibilities is 43 Commando (Fleet Protection Group)

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/our-organisation/the-fighting-arms/royal-marines/3-commando-brigade/43-cdo-fleet-protection-group

Is the ANBP group more likely to evolve into an Assault Group that could also use small boat skills to land and support Army Light Infantry?  Or is it more likely to evolve into a Fleet Protection Group of RCN personnel dedicated to the security and assault needs of the RCN?


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## TCM621

Nice to see this finally moving forward. I remember talking about this with the LT(N) Lund and his staff back in 04/05. Considering that ship boarding have been the primary operational role of the RCN for around 20 years, naval boarding teams were not given adequate initial training and often very little follow up training in the fleet. When I was involved with NBPs in the middle aughts, a lot of the training was handcuffed by policy based on fantastical and unrealistic expectations.  My personal favorite was "carry this long gun but don't put a round in the chamber. Use your sidearm for self defense instead."

One person asked what would they do when not boarding? They would train and improve their skills like any other front line fighting unit.


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## dimsum

Journeyman said:
			
		

> No one's asking the critical question.  Based on the overwhelming attention higher HQs are paying to such matters, the _biggest_ issue is....
> 
> 
> 
> .....will they be getting special uniforms, badges, titles?   op:



 :worms:


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## McG

Journeyman said:
			
		

> No one's asking the critical question.  Based on the overwhelming attention higher HQs are paying to such matters, the _biggest_ issue is....
> 
> 
> 
> .....will they be getting special uniforms, badges, titles?   op:


Obviously the answer is yes.  They will also be eligible to earn the Army Marksman badges.


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## kratz

MCG said:
			
		

> Obviously the answer is yes.  They will also be eligible to earn the Army Marksman badges.



If they earn a marksman badge, it should be the areospace badge vice army.
Shooting from a moving platform onto the same or different moving platform at 
so many feet and a moving target...There's a reason we don't normally rely on scopes.


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## Ex-Dragoon

Just wondering if they will keep the p225, mp5, 870 and C8 or are the powers looking for replacements?


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## jonsey

Would there be a reason to replace any of those?


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## Ex-Dragoon

Jonsey said:
			
		

> Would there be a reason to replace any of those?



Well I am thinking if the training is gearing up to reflect the changing nature of boardings (i.e. the Navy looking at higher risk operations) then having some members equipped with only a Sig P225 with 2-3X 8 round magazines might not be the way to go as in years past. If the fit hits the shan then 16-24 rounds is not going to do it for you. IMO having half of your team members armed with a sidearm only might need to be revisited.


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## Monsoon

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Well I am thinking if the training is gearing up to reflect the changing nature of boardings (i.e. the Navy looking at higher risk operations) then having some members equipped with only a Sig P225 with 2-3X 8 round magazines might not be the way to go as in years past. If the fit hits the shan then 16-24 rounds is not going to do it for you. IMO having half of your team members armed with a sidearm only might need to be revisited.


To the best of my knowledge NBP training has always included P225, MP5 and Remington 870 famil for all members, regardless of the allocation of weapons during a specific boarding. I expect you're right that that allocation would change for higher-risk operations, but I don't see why they'd want to change the weapons themselves. The steel interior of a ship is a bad place to fire high-velocity rounds.


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## TCM621

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> To the best of my knowledge NBP training has always included P225, MP5 and Remington 870 famil for all members, regardless of the allocation of weapons during a specific boarding. I expect you're right that that allocation would change for higher-risk operations, but I don't see why they'd want to change the weapons themselves. The steel interior of a ship is a bad place to fire high-velocity rounds.


If I recall correctly, the second wave was armed with side arms only. However, that easy easily changed as the mission dictates.  I personally only carried a sidearm because it allowed me freedom of my hands while dealing with crew and I was accompanied by a long arm carrying partner. It was also counter to doctrine. 

As you mentioned, given the fact that we must use fmj rounds, rifles are a bad idea in a steel ship. A level 3 vest will stop a pistol round but a rifle round will go right through it. The mp5 navy is probably the best gun for ship boarding anyway.


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## runormal

Im curious if anyone can give a sit rep with how this is playing out. I realize it has only been 6 months, but I haven't heard anything since.

Cheers,


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## runormal

Thanks for the post. Unfortunately I'm still in the reserves so it will be several years before I can even think about applying.


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## Halifax Tar

This is something I will be looking into once I get my boots back on the ground in Halifax.


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## runormal

Defintely something I'm looking forward to when/if my CT goes through. Watch and shoot I guess  ;D.


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## q_1966

So will the regular Naval Boarding Party still exist or just the Advanced Naval Boarding Party?


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## SeaKingTacco

WeatherdoG said:
			
		

> Thank you for this, I shall use it to good effect on them... This is going to be a good day.



Do I detect a very interesting "wakey-wakey" pipe, in the not too distant future?


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## jaysfan17

I figured I'd post a question(s) on this topic than start a new one.

I was looking over this medical requirements sheet for NCM's and Officers:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/officer-ncm-minimum-medical-standards.page

Does NBP fall under 'Combat Specialists' or 'Boatswain'? I only ask because on the Forces website NBP is listed as specialty training under Boatswain, but NBP seems like it would be a Combat specific trade. Also, Boatswain requires V4 while Combat Specialists require V3. 

Are there advanced and specialty courses that have different medical requirements than the trade it falls under?


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## OceanBonfire

> *Naval Boarding Party training – a tactical evolution*
> 
> _By Lookout on Mar 19, 2020_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Imagery captured during the Naval Boarding Party Course Graduation at NAD in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Feb. 20. Photo by Leading Seaman John Iglesias, Canadian Armed Forces_
> 
> 
> *MS Matt Swain, Canadian Fleet Atlantic*
> 
> When Canada’s warships head out on missions to thwart crime in the global marine environment, they take with them a highly trained vessel boarding and search capability.
> 
> To generate these parties of boarding specialists is an equally elite, tiered training program delivered by the Naval Tactical Operations Group. Training starts with the Naval Boarding Parties Basic and Supervisor courses, and then a team training.
> 
> Three Naval Boarding Party (NBP) Basic courses have been completed – two on the West Coast and one on the East.
> 
> This fast-paced, physically demanding six-week course teaches students a variety of skills including legal considerations, searching techniques, personnel control skills, tactical shooting, comprehensive close quarter battle, and combat first aid. Each phase of the course ends with an exam that students must pass in order to progress. If the student is unsuccessful, they are returned to their respective units and, depending on the nature of the failure, may be given the option to reattempt.
> 
> The course ends with a realistic final exercise designed to test all aspects of the course. Senior Instructor, PO1 Chris Nowlan is tasked to ensure the course provides tactical realism and a challenge that leaves successful students with a sense of accomplishment from their hard work.
> 
> Graduates earn a badge, one of three skill badges introduced by the navy in May 2019 to recognize their specialized skill sets.
> 
> A badge is earned by achieving progressively more challenging course milestones that ensure students have the right attitude and motivation, regardless of rank.
> 
> In keeping with NTOG’s culture of invested small team leadership, officers are expected to both lead the team and, by creating a positive training atmosphere, mentor junior sailors to overcome any challenge they may encounter.
> 
> NBP training is for motivated, fit and adventurous navy personnel looking for a challenge. To ensure a successful application, a sailor should express interest to his or her immediate supervisor. They will ensure the chain-of-command contacts the correct people to make the registration on the next available course. Interested applicants must be current in weapons handling with passing grades on C8/Sig Sauer refresher training within the past 24 months. They must be comfortable with heights or in confined spaces. An NETP qualification and currency in standard first aid are also pre-requisites. It should also be noted that, while there is no minimum physical fitness standard, past graduates would concede that potential applicants, who arrive for the course prepared for a physical and mental challenge, will enjoy the course more than those who struggle on Day One.
> 
> 
> *What the students say:*
> 
> *Able Seaman Saif Morsy, after completing the course on Feb. 20 in Halifax*
> 
> “What set the tone for me at the start of the course was how [the staff] made a point to say they wanted to give us a product that we could be proud of, and that was evident throughout the entire course…Safety and respect were at the forefront of every lesson and there was never a point where I felt (the course) compromised either of them. Training was scaled to the ability of the students, which gave people who had less experience more time and confidence to hone skills for assessments. It genuinely felt like an environment that students could grow in, whether it was through a leadership role or developing assertiveness through team focused skills.”
> 
> 
> *SLt Tori Brown, one of two women who successfully passed and was badged upon graduating*
> 
> “When I heard I was going to be on the first NBP Basic Course taught by NTOG, I was a little intimidated. I knew that the NBP course was challenging, but I wondered what was to come now that NTOG was taking over. This was the most challenging course I’ve done in my career, but it was also the most rewarding. I take a lot of pride in myself and everyone who graduated the course. The instructors had high expectations but were 100 per cent invested in everyone’s success and worked hard to ensure all students reached their full potential.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _First course taught by Naval Tactical Operations group instructors on the east coast_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/naval-boarding-party-training-tactical-evolution/
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/RoyalCanadianNavy/posts/1085426325152435


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## CBH99

I've found these short NTOG episodes pretty good.  They don't elaborate much outside of what we already know, but entertaining & good for recruiting I'd say  


Episode 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtQKGU5GmjM


Episode 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAdYmfhhFUg


Episode 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67MuMRbcdRM


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