# RCAF Mess Ottawa



## AKa (7 Sep 2022)

Anybody know what happened to the mess?  The website says it's closed permanently.  WTH?


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## dapaterson (7 Sep 2022)

My understanding is that much like the RCN mess in Ottawa, continually deferred maintenance has rendered the facility unusable.

With the majority of military personnel now in the west end, any reinvestment would be challenging to justify in the downtown core.


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## FSTO (7 Sep 2022)

We could make a pretty nice all ranks mess at the peak of Moldor, I mean Carling Building 5 (I think its five).


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## Furniture (7 Sep 2022)

FSTO said:


> We could make a pretty nice all ranks mess at the peak of Moldor, I mean Carling Building 5 (I think its five).


Would be pretty easy to merge the C&POs with the Officers messes, in the same building as the downtown Jrs mess. The C&POs has two floors, one could become the wardroom.


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## Edward Campbell (7 Sep 2022)

dapaterson said:


> My understanding is that much like the RCN mess in Ottawa, continually deferred maintenance has rendered the facility unusable.
> 
> With the majority of military personnel now in the west end, any reinvestment would be challenging to justify in the downtown core.


Ottawa's mess messes are one of my pet peeves. 

First: I believe in all-ranks or multi-rank messes. The all-ranks mess at Leitrim works very well, but that's a unit. I think that the junior ranks might prefer some privacy, away from officers and senior NCOs - even Leitrim has some "closed" (juniors asks only) events. My own ( limited and idiosyncratic) experience in Signal units says that combined officers/WO & sergeants messes can work quite well.

Second: there is no need for three officers' messes in downtown Ottawa ... but there probably is enough business - especially associate members  and senior officers - to justify one. In practice that means that the Ary Mess has to be made a joint CF mess.

I think Carling needs a club - I suspect the right sort of place might be very attractive for lunches, after work drinks, events and branch/divisions social gatherings - maybe two or even three bars and a couple of dining rooms, al over and above the dry 'food court' which I think is there.

There could be, from an institutional perspective' one officers' mess, one WOs and sergeants mess and one junior ranks mess, each with more than one venue, plus unit messes at e.g. Leitrim and Connaught.


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## dimsum (7 Sep 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> Ottawa's mess messes are one of my pet peeves.
> 
> First: I believe in all-ranks or multi-rank messes. The all-ranks mess at Leitrim works very well, but that's a unit. I think that the junior ranks might prefer some privacy, away from officers and senior NCOs - even Leitrim has some "closed" (juniors asks only) events. My own ( limited and idiosyncratic) experience in Signal units says that combined officers/WO & sergeants messes can work quite well.
> 
> ...


All-ranks messes work, if there are also "breakout" rooms where people can go and be just part of their own group if need be.  14 Wing Greenwood essentially has that.

With the number of places that folks in the NCR could be posted to, it would be hard to nail down one "Officer" mess, etc.  Aside from unit messes, maybe 3 all-ranks messes (Carlng, downtown, Star Top?) may work better.


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## Edward Campbell (7 Sep 2022)

Anything is better than what I read/hear is happening: the junior rank in the downtown core (Military Stores Bldg, by Cartier Square) have been told to make room for the RCN officers.

I'm trying really hard to remember on which leadership course - somewhere between LCpl and LCol - I was taught that the junior ranks should stand aside so that the officers could be cared for ... 🤔. It seems to me that a millennium or two of military custom says exactly the reverse.


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## rmc_wannabe (7 Sep 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> Anything is better than what I read/hear is happening: the junior rank in the downtown core (Military Stores Bldg, by Cartier Square) have been told to make room for the RCN officers.
> 
> I'm trying really hard to remember on which leadership course - somewhere between LCpl and LCol - I was taught that the junior ranks should stand aside so that the officers could be cared for ... 🤔. It seems to me that a millennium or two of military custom says exactly the reverse.


We had the opposite happen here in Kingston in 2015 for OP PROVISION. 

The Base Commander needed a place to feed hundreds of potential refugees away from the main Dining Hall. The JRs mess lost the game of "Rock, Paper, Rank" and were "graciously" given access to the Vimy Officer's Mess... 

... well ...through the very closed off side door....to the basement... with the spare furniture....and mice. And wouldn't you know it, none of the bar sales made it back to the JRs coffers, but boy were they lucky to have a place to hang out....


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Sep 2022)

The whiney pathetic last gasps of a group of dinosaurs who believe the crap from 200 years ago still is relevant today.   Go suck an asteroid losers....


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## Blackadder1916 (7 Sep 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> I'm trying really hard to remember on which leadership course - somewhere between LCpl and LCol - I was taught that the junior ranks should stand aside so that the officers could be cared for ... 🤔. It seems to me that a millennium or two of military custom says exactly the reverse.





Bruce Monkhouse said:


> . . .  the crap from 200 years ago . . .



Or 100 years ago.  While recently looking through some old Militia Reports I noticed in the report for the FY ending 31 March 1920 that a couple of the appendices (i.e. the reports from Cmdt RMC and Board of Visitors to RMC) dedicated a comparatively significant amount of space bemoaning the "servant" problem at that institution and recommending that it could be solved by having the servants at RMC be soldiers.

what the Cmdt said . . .



and the response from the Board of Visitors . . .



Whether the matter was eventually resolved to the satisfaction of the general officer responsible for the education and training of future leaders of the Canadian Army is unclear, but in the reports for the following two fiscal years he reiterated the problem and recommended remedy.  That would suggest two things about how little certain aspects of the Army has evolved over the course of a hundred years; that a segment of senior leadership spends way too much time worrying about their own comfort, and the highest leadership level of the Army and Department are unable to reach a simple decision in a timely manner.


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## dimsum (8 Sep 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> Anything is better than what I read/hear is happening: the junior rank in the downtown core (Military Stores Bldg, by Cartier Square) have been told to make room for the RCN officers.


I don't think it's as drastic as it sounds.  It's one room out of the entire building (I believe) - I was there for a small event and that room isn't that big.  Maybe double the size of the bar section of the Army O Mess.


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## stoker dave (8 Sep 2022)

My (very limited and outdated) experience is that 80% of mess events are attended by the same 20% of eligible participants.  

Is that still true?


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## Halifax Tar (8 Sep 2022)

rmc_wannabe said:


> We had the opposite happen here in Kingston in 2015 for OP PROVISION.
> 
> The Base Commander needed a place to feed hundreds of potential refugees away from the main Dining Hall. The JRs mess lost the game of "Rock, Paper, Rank" and were "graciously" given access to the Vimy Officer's Mess...
> 
> ... well ...through the very closed off side door....to the basement... with the spare furniture....and mice. And wouldn't you know it, none of the bar sales made it back to the JRs coffers, but boy were they lucky to have a place to hang out....



It boggles my mind when C&POs / Sgt/WOs messes don't stand up and welcome the JRs in in situations like this. 

GOD DAMNIT! We were them; we are their representatives, examples and guardians.  Fucking act like that great responsibility and privilege we've been given or GTFO or take a commission.


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## Furniture (8 Sep 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> Anything is better than what I read/hear is happening: the junior rank in the downtown core (Military Stores Bldg, by Cartier Square) have been told to make room for the RCN officers.
> 
> I'm trying really hard to remember on which leadership course - somewhere between LCpl and LCol - I was taught that the junior ranks should stand aside so that the officers could be cared for ... 🤔. It seems to me that a millennium or two of military custom says exactly the reverse.


That strikes me as odd, when the entire upper floor of the C&POs is only ever really used for events. Maybe the RCN officers didn't want to have to walk up an extra flight of stairs?


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## Edward Campbell (8 Sep 2022)

Furniture said:


> That strikes me as odd, when the entire upper floor of the C&POs is only ever really used for events. Maybe the RCN officers didn't want to have to walk up an extra flight of stairs?


I don't know for sure ... see dimsum's comments, just above.

It doesn't alter my main point: when one or two officers' messes must close it is the duty of the other officers' mess to welcome them ... we do not displace the rank and file or even the sergeants for the convenience and comfort of officers.


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## Halifax Tar (8 Sep 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> I don't know for sure ... see dimsum's comments, just above.
> 
> It doesn't alter my main point: when one or two officers' messes must close it is the duty of the other officers' mess to welcome them ... we do not displace the rank and file or even the sergeants for the convenience and comfort of officers.



Never take from your men.


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## Navy_Pete (8 Sep 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Never take from your men.


I think it is on the third floor of the Jrs, which probably wasn't getting much use. but agree it's weird. Hopefully at least the bar funds go to the JRs, and this usage by a limited number of people is helping them, as I suspect it's mostly retired lifetime Bytown members going in as most are still WFH.

I had thought they were somewhere on HMCS Carleton tbh, but not sure why they didn't go to the Army mess on Somerset. The 3 messes had an open door policy between them for gratis growlies, and used to work down the street from there so was a good Friday lunch, and back when people were at the office a lot of people just dropped into whichever was closest. More common people going to between the RCAF and Navy messes though, the army is still a bit more formal so it's less relaxed.

Shame about the air force mess, had a great setup for having actual functions and met a lot of nice people there. Bytown had a lot of memorabilia but was a pain in the ass layout wise and wasn't surprised to hear it was shut down with a lot of fire code violations due to the state of it and the age (think a lot of the insulation was found to be newspaper, IIRC).

Hopefully they set up some kind of all ranks mess in Carling with breakout rooms; it's a bit of an isolated spot so having somewhere to go 'out' to lunch with the team would be great (if you are working out there). Ottawa is a lot more casual for the most part, and with the mix of civvies and military in the same team first name basis is pretty common. I think the fundamental idea of having a place to go socialize is sound, but they really need to look at the concept. There are definitely times when the different ranks wouldn't mind a break from their  subordinates/supervisors, but we aren't operational units here living together 24/7 in an isolated spot, so it's a really different context here in the NCR.


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## Furniture (8 Sep 2022)

Navy_Pete said:


> I think it is on the third floor of the Jrs, which probably wasn't getting much use. but agree it's weird. Hopefully at least the bar funds go to the JRs, and this usage by a limited number of people is helping them, as I suspect it's mostly retired lifetime Bytown members going in as most are still WFH.
> 
> I had thought they were somewhere on HMCS Carleton tbh, but not sure why they didn't go to the Army mess on Somerset. The 3 messes had an open door policy between them for gratis growlies, and used to work down the street from there so was a good Friday lunch, and back when people were at the office a lot of people just dropped into whichever was closest. More common people going to between the RCAF and Navy messes though, the army is still a bit more formal so it's less relaxed.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%. 

My directorate is about half military, and half civilian. The military half is 2x PO/WO 1,1x MWO, and a Major. We usually use first names, and when we go for lunches together we avoid the messes because someone is always left out. It works for us because we are downtown, but out at Carling that would be less of an option.


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## Remius (8 Sep 2022)

Not sure why we even have an army, navy and airforce officers mess for each,  the Snr NCO mess is all elements as is the JRs.  Just make an NCR officer mess and be done with it.


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## Halifax Tar (8 Sep 2022)

Remius said:


> Not sure why we even have an army, navy and airforce officers mess for each,  the Snr NCO mess is all elements as is the JRs.  Just make an NCR officer mess and be done with it.



Why do we need messes period ?  The only place I have seem them really needed is on ships.


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## Edward Campbell (8 Sep 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> *Why do we need messes period ?*  The only place I have seem them really needed is on ships.


That's the key question. Messes grew up in the late 18th and throughout the 19th century - mostly on there "frontiers" of India and Canada. British officers serving in England didn't have such things because they were quite unnecessary. But there were messes on ships and in remote, overseas, bases - think Fort Henry and the Halifax Citadel.

Are mess of our current type necessary, today?

I will argue that in a small_ish_, specialized station, like Leitrim, or even in a large but somewhat remote base like Cold Lake there is a need for social/recreational facilities and at least an all ranks club is appropriate. But what about Esquimalt, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Kingston and Halifax? Are messes a good use of our resources?

Ships: Yes and there is likely a ned for separate "leaders" messes. CFS Alert needs a good mess system. Wainwright? Shilo?


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## rmc_wannabe (8 Sep 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> That's the key question. Messes grew up in the late 18th and throughout the 19th century - mostly on there "frontiers" of India and Canada. British officers serving in England didn't have such things because they were quite unnecessary. But there were messes on ships and in remote, overseas, bases - think Fort Henry and the Halifax Citadel.
> 
> Are mess of our current type necessary, today?
> 
> ...


I agree with everything except the bolded part of this quote.

Having served the majority of my career inside "urban" locals, I would argue they are needed there immensely. Locals see dollar signs when bloggins walks through the door. Some of the locals are welcoming, if you have coin. Some locals are openly hostile and want to toss out the brutes. In some cases, geography also plays a part in the need to have a place to hang out, seeing as it's an 80-100 dollar cab ride for the troops to get from the outskirts where the base is located to an establishment.

Ultimately, if you sleep in your barrack room, your mess is your living and dining room... like on a ship.

Do they get the traffic they used to? I doubt it. But a lot of that has to do with the failure to communicate that cultural aspect of service to newer generations coming in.

CFSCE does a good job of orienting new troops into this culture and I have been grateful to see a shift locally at least.


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## Furniture (8 Sep 2022)

There is likely an argument for the messes to evolve into more a USN Liberty Center style social gathering place, rather than what we currently have. 

A common space for all ranks with comfortable seating, large screens for movies/sports, and smaller spaces for individual gaming/internet surfing. Throw in some rank divided "snake pits", with a common bar, and you've got something that would likely appeal to live-in members, as well as provide a location for social events.


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## Blackadder1916 (8 Sep 2022)

Furniture said:


> . . .  would likely appeal to live-in members . . . .



How many still live-in?  An honest question, since the impression one gets is, that other than during training, the expectation is for members to move out on the economy as soon as possible.  The impression is strengthened by a general increase in average age, married/family status and a higher rate of home ownership than back in the day when I last lived-in (which, though briefly, was over three decades ago).


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## Furniture (8 Sep 2022)

Blackadder1916 said:


> How many still live-in?  An honest question, since the impression one gets is, that other than during training, the expectation is for members to move out on the economy as soon as possible.  The impression is strengthened by a general increase in average age, married/family status and a higher rate of home ownership than back in the day when I last lived-in (which, though briefly, was over three decades ago).


I used live-in as a catch all to include people on training, on IR, and single members living-in. 

The CAF has gone out of it's way to make living-in on a full-time basis miserable/impossible, so there aren't many doing it. I suspect that some of the leadership is now starting to regret that short-sightedness now that cost/shortages of housing are becoming a major problem around many bases.


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## MacNav63 (8 Sep 2022)

Sorry to hear the RCAF Mess has closed. I have many happy memories of Friday lunches there with my Dad in the 80s. He was army but the RCAF Mess was closer to the JAG offices in the old Narono Building. It was well known for serving the best fish and chips in Ottawa on Fridays. In good weather they'd be lined up out the door.


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## dapaterson (8 Sep 2022)

The Army could have been gracious and welcomed the other two messes.  They could have consulted and let them fund members lunches.

But instead they've gone full Army: for Friday lunches, they are now checking ID and names against their members list.


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## Blackadder1916 (8 Sep 2022)

MacNav63 said:


> Sorry to hear the RCAF Mess has closed. I have many happy memories of Friday lunches there with my Dad in the 80s. He was army but the RCAF Mess was closer to the JAG offices in the old Narono Building. It was well known for serving the best fish and chips in Ottawa on Fridays. In good weather they'd be lined up out the door.



Yes, their Friday fish and chips was a lunchtime standard a few times a month for many Surg Gen officers when I was there in the 80s.  The only other times we went to a mess for lunch was to the Army Officers Mess for the curry.


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## Furniture (8 Sep 2022)

dapaterson said:


> The Army could have been gracious and welcomed the other two messes.  They could have consulted and let them fund members lunches.
> 
> But instead they've gone full Army: for Friday lunches, they are now checking ID and names against their members list.


This is the most CAF thing I have read in a long time...


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## MacNav63 (8 Sep 2022)

Blackadder1916 said:


> Yes, their Friday fish and chips was a lunchtime standard a few times a month for many Surg Gen officers when I was there in the 80s.  The only other times we went to a mess for lunch was to the Army Officers Mess for the curry.


Remember the curries at the Army Mess as well. Also a big draw.


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## Navy_Pete (8 Sep 2022)

Blackadder1916 said:


> How many still live-in?  An honest question, since the impression one gets is, that other than during training, the expectation is for members to move out on the economy as soon as possible.  The impression is strengthened by a general increase in average age, married/family status and a higher rate of home ownership than back in the day when I last lived-in (which, though briefly, was over three decades ago).


Aside from courses, it's also required to stay in on base facilities if you go on TD unless you justify a reason otherwise.

But with some of the difficulties finding places to live (especially for a few months between career courses) not uncommon for people to be living in.

In Halifax (last time I was there on TD) everyone ate in a common mess in the C&PO/Wardroom building, with the separate messes still running their social functions. It was great; happened to run into some people that we sailed with so were able to catch up over breakfast, without worrying about the fact that we were all different ranks, and then caught up with people at a local pub off base.

I think it makes sense to have residences, as long as they are all the same standard. Was really frustrating for years to see the new Weirdroom/C&POs building in Halifax and the big delay until the JRs was redone, but I guess it balances out with the old officer's long term residence, or the other buildings that occasionally have sections 'uncondemned' for jnr officers to stay in.


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## AKa (8 Sep 2022)

I for one have enjoyed the messes.  Before the pandemic, I happily visited all three officers' messes.  Events at the RCAF Mess were actually great when you brought some rowdy friends.  The RCAF mess dinners were an opportunity to meet a bunch of fellow officers that I would normally never encounter.

I'm not excessively attached to the notion of a pure Air Force mess nor do I have a problem with an all ranks solution, but I do value the fellowship of my sisters and brothers in arms in a venue dedicated to us.


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## lenaitch (8 Sep 2022)

From a civi perspective, when I was law enforcement in small towns, the favoured place to socialize was the Legion. It was an environment generally free from the local s***rats, had the typical distractions of pool, shuffle board, etc. and, if somebody did get on your case, they could be tossed since it was a licenced as a club.  It was also a favoured place for events, such as transfer parties.  In one town we also enjoyed the mess at a local CFS.   I can imagine military members would also appreciate a somewhat 'safe' environment to kick back as well a place to hold events where liquor is available.  There may be a local watering hole that caters to its local military members and appreciates the business, but there is no guarantee.  Travel to and from the edge-of-town aspect of many bases is something I had not considered.


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## McG (8 Sep 2022)

Edward Campbell said:


> It doesn't alter my main point: when one or two officers' messes must close it is the duty of the other officers' mess to welcome them ... we do not displace the rank and file or even the sergeants for the convenience and comfort of officers.


The priority of some tribes is to assert their distinctiveness over the others. The old officer service messes will be protected to reinforce a message that we are not one and that all are beholden to their parent “service.”


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## dapaterson (8 Sep 2022)

CO of the base in Ottawa needs to issue some orders, at the risk of pissing off some wankers.


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## Navy_Pete (8 Sep 2022)

McG said:


> The priority of some tribes is to assert their distinctiveness over the others. The old officer service messes will be protected to reinforce a message that we are not one and that all are beholden to their parent “service.”


...but be ready to go in a purple job outside your element, because one service.

The tribalism is stupid, and we learn a lot from each other on the equipment side (and provide each other with gear). It's weird that we all start in the same BMOQ, and do a common staff college (ie learn how to army good) but have relics like the service messes for officers in the NCR which is easily the most tri-service area in the country.

Maybe if we talked to each other more, we could avoid things like an army support radio fitted to a ship that doesn't use the same frequencies as modern army radios (which has now been retired, but really shouldn't find that out in something like the Haiti response).

If the CAF wasn't actively shooting itself in the foot though I think we might just have only a manageable workload though, so can't have that. A simple gas turbine engine will use something like 60%-70% of it's energy to be self sustaining, so it's nice to be a leader in internal inefficiencies.


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## Kilted (8 Sep 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Why do we need messes period ?  The only place I have seem them really needed is on ships.


They are good for retention in the reserves.  I've been in a few reg force messes.  They don't have the same culture to them.


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## dapaterson (8 Sep 2022)

Most Res F messes retain the wrong people.  Those who will protect the mess, as opposed to those who will advance the institution.


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## dimsum (9 Sep 2022)

Navy_Pete said:


> The tribalism is stupid, and we learn a lot from each other on the equipment side (and provide each other with gear). It's weird that we all start in the same BMOQ, and do a common staff college (ie learn how to army good) but have relics like the service messes for officers in the NCR which is easily the most tri-service area in the country.
> 
> Maybe if we talked to each other more, we could avoid things like an army support radio fitted to a ship that doesn't use the same frequencies as modern army radios (which has now been retired, but really shouldn't find that out in something like the Haiti response).


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## ueo (9 Sep 2022)

Halifax Tar said:


> Why do we need messes period ?  The only place I have seem them really needed is on ships.


Yes, yes, and yes. Wrote an article on this some years back that was published in the CFB London base paper asking this very question along with the requirement that all CF members must belong to and pay dues (altho with a caveat) to an applicable mess. Those in Base posns paid a large sum and those on RSS chose the cost savings accrued by belonging to a res mess. Ignited a fire storm for about 2 days then....


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## Blackadder1916 (9 Sep 2022)

McG said:


> The priority of some tribes is to assert their distinctiveness over the others. The old officer service messes will be protected to reinforce a message that we are not one and that all are beholden to their parent “service.”



That distinctive tribalism may be partly responsible for the AOM appearing to be in better financial condition than the other two messes in Ottawa. They are, at least, still open; is that not so.  Some of it may have to do with a larger number of green clad officers being posted to NDHQ.  If I recall correctly, back in the 80s when I was posted there, I had no choice of mess to which I had to belong despite being a "purple suiter" at the time.  This was when we had just been assigned (but not yet issued) which DEU we would take on; mine was army so I ended up being a member of the AOM.  Other than the lunchtime draw of previously mentioned air force fish and chips or army curry, the Ottawa messes didn't particularly fit my routine (or interests) and it appeared to me that was the common perception.  On the few times that I gathered with others in a mess for a few Friday wets it was at Uplands (NDMC pers, where several friends were posted, were affiliated to either Uplands or Rockcliffe), which was a more traditional base mess experience but still far from a large turn-out.


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## Weinie (10 Sep 2022)

Blackadder1916 said:


> That distinctive tribalism *may be partly responsible for the AOM appearing to be in better financial condition than the other two messes in Ottawa. *They are, at least, still open; is that not so.  Some of it may have to do with a larger number of green clad officers being posted to NDHQ.  If I recall correctly, back in the 80s when I was posted there, I had no choice of mess to which I had to belong despite being a "purple suiter" at the time.  This was when we had just been assigned (but not yet issued) which DEU we would take on; mine was army so I ended up being a member of the AOM.  Other than the lunchtime draw of previously mentioned air force fish and chips or army curry, the Ottawa messes didn't particularly fit my routine (or interests) and it appeared to me that was the common perception.  On the few times that I gathered with others in a mess for a few Friday wets it was at Uplands (NDMC pers, where several friends were posted, were affiliated to either Uplands or Rockcliffe), which was a more traditional base mess experience but still far from a large turn-out.


They generate about $50K a month in mess dues alone, not to mention bar sales and private events.


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## kev994 (10 Sep 2022)

So if the RCAF and Navy pers in NCR don’t have a mess, I assume they also don’t have mess dues?


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## Remius (10 Sep 2022)

kev994 said:


> So if the RCAF and Navy pers in NCR don’t have a mess, I assume they also don’t have mess dues?


That kind of talk makes people get disappeared…


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## dimsum (10 Sep 2022)

kev994 said:


> So if the RCAF and Navy pers in NCR don’t have a mess, I assume they also don’t have mess dues?









I can't speak to the Wardroom, but for the RCAF O Mess:

There isn't a physical place, but the RCAF O Mess does organize events, have prizes, etc.  It's almost all virtual now, with the exception of stuff like beer tours (which was amazing btw), wine tours, cooking classes, etc.  For TGIF dinners, you can order dinners to go, pick up from the common kitchen by the JR Mess, and heat at home.  They're pretty good, to be honest.

I have to say the NCR RCAF O Mess really did good stuff during Covid.  Probably had a higher "turnout" for things than when it was in person.


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## Navy_Pete (12 Sep 2022)

dimsum said:


> I can't speak to the Wardroom, but for the RCAF O Mess:
> 
> There isn't a physical place, but the RCAF O Mess does organize events, have prizes, etc.  It's almost all virtual now, with the exception of stuff like beer tours (which was amazing btw), wine tours, cooking classes, etc.  For TGIF dinners, you can order dinners to go, pick up from the common kitchen by the JR Mess, and heat at home.  They're pretty good, to be honest.
> 
> I have to say the NCR RCAF O Mess really did good stuff during Covid.  Probably had a higher "turnout" for things than when it was in person.


Bytown did the same thing; there was virtual beer/wine/whiskey tastings and all kinds of other virtual activities, plus regular draws (that everyone was entered into by default). They also kept paying the salaries of the full times staff who had been fixtures, which is probably the sad bit of going into the Jrs in that they had to lay them off.


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## AKa (5 Oct 2022)

RCAF Mess is having an Octoberfest again this year.  If it's anything like it was pre-pandemic, I highly recommend.  It was hilarious.


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## ueo (8 Oct 2022)

ww, poor. babies . Hoe about thosev in Buffalo Nut Sask? memberhip  about 6.


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## Kilted (8 Oct 2022)

AKa said:


> RCAF Mess is having an Octoberfest again this year.  If it's anything like it was pre-pandemic, I highly recommend.  It was hilarious.


Is that really a critical task?


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## Weinie (8 Oct 2022)

Kilted said:


> Is that really a critical task?


It's NPF dude. Lighten up.


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## dimsum (8 Oct 2022)

Kilted said:


> Is that really a critical task?


I know the Ent O there.  He isn't ordered to to put on Oktoberfest, or any other event that he helps organize.

Also, those positions are volunteers, not "voluntolds".  They're doing this because they _want_ to.


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## Kilted (9 Oct 2022)

dimsum said:


> I know the Ent O there.  He isn't ordered to to put on Oktoberfest, or any other event that he helps organize.
> 
> Also, those positions are volunteers, not "voluntolds".  They're doing this because they _want_ to.


But how are we supposed to be ready to fight the Russians when people are eating German Sausages in Ottawa?


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## Good2Golf (9 Oct 2022)

Kilted said:


> But how are we supposed to be ready to fight the Russians when people are eating German Sausages in Ottawa?


Probably the same way as the CAF troops deployed in the UK and Latvia assisting efforts in Ukraine are likely also eating a German sausage or two around this time?  🤷‍♂️


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## FJAG (10 Oct 2022)

Mmmmmm. Knackwurst.

🌭🥨🍻


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## PPCLI Guy (10 Oct 2022)

uhuh


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