# Military plane reported to crash in Saskatchewan - 9 Oct 2008



## ENGINEERS WIFE (9 Oct 2008)

Military plane reported to crash in Saskatchewan 
Updated Thu. Oct. 9 2008 3:51 PM ET

The Canadian Press

MOOSE JAW, Sask. -- A military aircraft is reported to have crashed at the 15 Wing base in Moose Jaw, Sask. 

An official at the base said there was a crash but would not provide any details. 

There is also a report of a parachute opening over a field. 

Debbie Noble, a civilian who lives outside the base, said that she saw a black cloud of smoke over a field and there were military vehicles and fire trucks at the scene.



(Edited by Moderator to add date to thread title.)


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (9 Oct 2008)

I just pray that everyone is okay


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## fire_guy686 (9 Oct 2008)

Hopefully everybody made it out okay.


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## Klinkaroo (9 Oct 2008)

Hopefully we get an update on the 6 o'clock news. If they say they saw a parachute and it was indeed the pilot who ejected, God Bless Ejection Seats.


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## SupersonicMax (9 Oct 2008)

A parachute doesn't mean 100% probability you will survive.  I hope the pilot is okay.


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## daftandbarmy (9 Oct 2008)

Sounds like it's a Snowbird aircraft...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/10/09/crash-military.html?ref=rss


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## chris_log (9 Oct 2008)

Two confirmed dead....

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081009/crash_moosejaw_081009/20081009?hub=TopStories


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## R933ex (9 Oct 2008)

CTV has now reported that it was a camera plane filming a Havard, Tudor and a Hawk..


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (9 Oct 2008)

RIP

Prayers are with the family.


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## RubberTree (9 Oct 2008)

2 killed in Sask. military plane crash
Regina Leader-Post and Global News
Published: Thursday, October 09, 2008
MOOSE JAW, Sask. - The pilot and passenger aboard a Snowbird died Thursday after the military aerobatics jet crashed near a Saskatchewan air force base.

Col. Paul Keddy, commander of 15 Wing Moose Jaw, confirmed the deaths of the two, both Canadian Forces personnel, at a news conference. He did not release their names because their families are still being contacted.

"It is with deep sadness that I announce to you that we have lost two great Canadians here at 15 Wing Moose Jaw - outstanding members of the Canadian Forces due to a tragic accident," he said.


A CT-114 Tutor aircraft - like the Snowbird jet shown here - crashed Thursday near 15 Wing Moose Jaw while involved in a 'training mission,' the Air Force said in a statement. The pilot and a passenger were killed.
Master Cpl. Robert Bottrill/Canadian Forces
.. 

Email to a friend

Printer friendly
Font:****"I'm extremely proud of the men and women of 15 Wing at this time. We've had a tragic afternoon."

Capt. Genevieve Mitchell, the base's public relations officer, said a CT-114 Tutor jet crashed about two kilometres northwest of the Wing perimeter at around 12:30 p.m.

Mitchell said the Tutor was on a training mission at the time of the crash. It was photographing three other aircraft flying in formation, and had been airborne for between 45 minutes and an hour when it crashed.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper, campaigning in Winnipeg, extended his sympathies to the grieving families.

"I learned not too long ago the death of two Snowbird pilots in a training accident, I gather. I've met most of the members of the Snowbird team, so this is quite upsetting for all of us," he said.

"I just want to convey my sincere condolences to their colleagues and their family, and this should remind us all of the great dangers our men and women in uniform do accept."

New Democrat leader Jack Layton also expressed condolences from the campaign trail.

"The people of Saskatchewan are proud of the air force at 15 Wing," Layton said in a media release. "On behalf of New Democrats across Canada, I extend my sincere condolences to the families and friends of the men lost today. I know the air force family at CFB Moose Jaw and all across Canada will feel this loss with acute pain."

15 Wing is home to the Snowbirds, Canada's national air demonstration team, who are currently performing in San Francisco. The team, due back at 15 Wing in a few days, will not be recalled to Canada early.

The downed craft was not currently in active service with the team.

Military spokespeople would not say whether the jet was showing signs of distress or trailing smoke before the crash.

A flight safety team from Ottawa will fly into the base Friday afternoon. Among other things, they'll be examining the inflight recorder for clues to the crash.

Area resident Doug Johnson was driving north in the area when he saw the jet dive into the ground.

"There were three (planes) together and two off to the side," he told the Moose Jaw Times-Herald. Johnson said he noticed smoke coming from behind one of the planes and originally thought it was the smoke that often trails after planes during a performance. But then he thought the colour was odd.

"When I turned to look back again, I saw one of the planes beeline into the ground."

The deaths come just over a year after another deadly Snowbird crash.

On May 18, 2007, a Tutor jet, also based at 15 Wing Moose Jaw, crashed while flying in formation with three other aircraft during a practice at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Great Falls, Mont.

The pilot, Capt. Shawn McCaughey, was killed when his seatbelt came unbuckled during an airborne roll, causing him to fall out of his seat and lose control of his aircraft.

The CT-114 Tutor has been in service in Canada since 1962, when they were purchased by the military as pilot trainers. They were adopted by the Snowbirds in 1971. They are also used in aircraft testing at the Aerospace Engineering Test Establishment in Cold Lake, Alta.

There have been several other plane crashes involving planes from CFB Moose Jaw in the past.

Last April, an instructor and student pilot were ejected from an aircraft at 15 Wing 1 1/2 seconds before it crashed into the end of the runway. Investigators believe the crash may have been caused by a broken turbine blade.

Also, in 1954, a Trans-Canada flight collided with a two-seater, single-engine military plane just south of the airbase.

Acting pilot officer Thomas Andrew Thorrat's climbing Harvard Mark II hit the tail end of the Northstar plane at 6,000 feet, sending it in a rapid descent into the city of Moose Jaw.

The plane descended towards the direction of the city's largest elementary school and skimmed the school's roof before crashing into a house.

All the passengers aboard the commercial flight, along with the military plane's pilot, and a housekeeper at the residence were killed, bringing the death toll to 37.

Moose Jaw is 70 kilometres west of Regina.

Moose Jaw Mayor Dale McBain also extended condolences to the families of the two dead.

"And to all of the folks out at 15 Wing - our deepest sympathy," McBain said. "We do have a close relationship with those people and we certainly extend our sympathies to all of them there."

With files from the Moose Jaw Times-Herald




© Regina Leader-Post and Global News 2008


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## The Bread Guy (9 Oct 2008)

Condolences to the family, colleagues and friends of the fallen....


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## Strike (10 Oct 2008)

Crap crap crap.  I wanted to go to Moose Jaw to see friends, but not for this.  Sympathies to the families.


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Oct 2008)

Damn.

RIP to the fallen...thoughts and prayers to their families, loved ones and friends.


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## WannaBeFlyer (10 Oct 2008)

My thoughts and prayers to their friends and families.


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## R933ex (10 Oct 2008)

RIP


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## Thompson_JM (10 Oct 2008)

damn....

RIP   

My thoughts are with their families and freinds.... Our military family is sadly 2 members smaller today.


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## crystalrh (10 Oct 2008)

Wow... Seemed like yesterday there was a crash above 15 Wing. This is happening much too often. 
My heart goes out to those at 15 wing, The lost pilots and their families, and I pray for a safe trip home for the Snowbirds.


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## Aizlee (10 Oct 2008)

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=95d78466-ad8d-44e0-a329-51132e045428

The identities of a pilot and a photographer who were killed Thursday after their military aerobatics plane crashed near a Saskatchewan air force base were released Friday.

The Royal Canadian Air Force have identified the two men as pilot Capt. Bryan "Mav" Mitchell, 46, and military photographer Sergeant Charles "Chuck" Senecal, 49. 

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of Captain Mitchell and Sergeant Senecal," said Colonel Paul Keddy, Wing Commander of 15 Wing in a news release Friday. "Captain Mitchell was extremely proud to be a member of the Snowbird Team and the Canadian Forces. It was truly a dream come true for him to have been selected by the Snowbirds to fly in the next show season. He was an inspiring instructor pilot and well-respected officer who had a passion for flying."

Senecal was a veteran military photographer with the Canadian Forces for the past 30 years.

"He was well known at 15 Wing as someone who could be counted on. His 'joie de vivre' was contagious and made a difference in the lives of people around him," Keddy said.

The crash occurred about two kilometres west of 15 Wing in Moose Jaw, Sask., around 12:30 p.m. local time Thursday. Mitchell was a member of the Snowbirds home team, a military official confirmed.

Meanwhile, 24 members of the Snowbirds are in San Francisco, Calif., waiting to learn if they will still be performing at a scheduled air show there this weekend.

Friday's practice has been cancelled, according to Capt. Jennifer Jones, a spokeswoman with Canada's national air demonstration team.

"We have absolutely no idea what caused that accident. Right now, we are taking the time to grieve the loss of two great friends. We're sticking together. We're a tight-knit family, supporting each other as best as we can," she said. "The crash could've been attributed to any number of factors and once we have a little more information, a decision will be made about flying this weekend."

Jones said the mood remains sombre but the Snowbirds team will be prepared to perform.

"The team is formed of a group of professionals. They are ready for whatever decision is made, ready for option A or option B," she said. "The pilots want to fly and we'll see if they get to."

A flight safety team of investigators from the Royal Canadian Air Force in Ottawa was set to arrive in Moose Jaw Friday. The team will be assessing, among other things, if there are any safety concerns surrounding the CT-114 Tutor jet that the two were flying when it crashed.

The Snowbirds plane was on a training mission at the time of the crash.

It was photographing three other aircraft - a Hawk, a Harvard and another Tutor - flying in formation, and had been airborne for about 45 minutes when it went down.

The other aircraft returned to base safely and there was no indication the downed aircraft clipped or touched any of the other planes during the training flight. The plane was not in active service with the team.

Military spokespeople would not say whether the jet was showing signs of distress or trailing smoke before the crash.


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## SupersonicMax (10 Oct 2008)

Well, so long Capt. Mitchell and Sgt. Senecal.  I had the opportunity to work with both.  I have flown a few trips with Brian before he was selected for the Snowbirds.  He actually stole a few minutes of stick time from me to practice formation before the Snowbirds trials!!   Both were really nice, genuine people.  We will remember you!


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## fire_guy686 (10 Oct 2008)

Rest Easy Capt Mitchell and Sgt Senecal.  

Thoughts and Prayers with their family members.


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## 1feral1 (10 Oct 2008)

I was at 15 Wg in August.

Thoughts and prayers to their mates and families today.


OWDU


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## Hot Lips (10 Oct 2008)

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20081010%2fSnowbird_Crash_20081010

RIP  
Condolences to family and friends...

HL


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## Celticgirl (10 Oct 2008)

R.I.P.


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## Strike (11 Oct 2008)

Someone once told me that I would know at least a dozen people that have died on domestic soil by 20 yrs.  So far I'm sitting at 7 and I'm 14 years in.  RIP guys.  My thoughts and prayers will always be with those dearly departed.

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings.
Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew.
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God. 

Truer words have never been spoken...


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## crystalrh (11 Oct 2008)

Great poem, Strike. But I really hope that you don't know a dozen people that die on domestic soil in 20 years.


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## mariomike (7 Jul 2010)

Update.

National Post
7 July, 2010:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/07/07/report-snowbird-crash-caused-by-human-error/


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## Strike (8 Jul 2010)

That whole report and article rubs me the wrong way.

They say Capt Mitchell had no training in low-level flying, formation or otherwise.  Ah, was the man not an instructor?  Chances are he's been both trained and trained others in that aspect.  As well, being the inner left bird, the chances of him flying low-level in formation (even if it might have only been during try-outs) are pretty darned good.



> The report recommended giving all pilots sent on photo-chase missions in the future guidance on the risks involved, and to make low-level awareness training a requirement for pilots before setting out.



Well, the first part would entail an addition to the flight brief, which should already be covered in "Other briefing points."  As for LL flight training, pretty sure that this training is made available at both the basic (500') and advanced (250') courses in MJ.  A refresher would be good prior to conducting any major formation training at those levels but beyond that seems a little too much.

Maybe I'm just having a bad day.  Who knows.


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## SupersonicMax (9 Jul 2010)

Strike,

I think the report says they should get LLAT in a photo-chase role.  There is a HUGE difference between flying low by yourself, flying low with an other aircraft and flying low taking pictures of other aircraft.


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## Strike (9 Jul 2010)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Strike,
> 
> I think the report says they should get LLAT in a photo-chase role.  There is a HUGE difference between flying low by yourself, flying low with an other aircraft and flying low taking pictures of other aircraft.



Really?  I never knew!   :

I have done all three, regularly.  Training was provided for the first two and the only difference between two and three was an addition in the brief.  To have a specific "course" on how to fly as a chase plane would be like having a specific course for tac-hel to learn how to do static rappel.  Yes, we have the qualification, but to get it entails briefing the flight, including possible emergencies specific to that situation and then going out and flying it.  If the big heads in 2 CAD suddenly decide to have a full qualification series/course for this one type of flying (chase plane) IMO would be a waste of time.  I hate to say it, but sometimes accidents happen and no amount of pre-briefing and preparation will prevent it.


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## Sf2 (10 Jul 2010)

I didn't find any problems with the report..

It did mention that the pilot, on several occasions, had difficulty with both altitude awareness, and energy management during rejoins.  Judging from the photo taken from the chase plane moments before the crash and the flight profile at the moment of the crash, its pretty clear what happened.

Fixation and channelized attention on the formation during a low altitude, overly dynamic rejoin.

Its a shame, but the analysis is spot on.


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## Good2Golf (19 Jul 2010)

SF2 said:
			
		

> I didn't find any problems with the report..
> 
> It did mention that the pilot, on several occasions, had difficulty with both altitude awareness, and energy management during rejoins.  Judging from the photo taken from the chase plane moments before the crash and the flight profile at the moment of the crash, its pretty clear what happened.
> 
> ...



Concur.

The low-level awareness training that the report specifically mentions, and for which Max reinforces the importance of that point, might have also brought to light the issue of the forced "remain to right of form" given by the form lead during the briefing, rather than physically during the flight.  The combination of the rolling-to-right low level manoeuvre with the effect of the terrain proximity as the photo bird dropped even lower to maintain the formation perspective for the photographer was something that could more than likely have been foreseen or at least queried during the pre-flight briefing.

Strike, in support of Max's comments, don't forget, there is a notable difference between low-level formation in free-cruise like we do, and low-level formation essentially parade-formation like the incident formation was traveling in.  As well, there's the NFP in our world to bring the FP's attention to any terrain that may endanger the intended flight path...the photographer was neither trained for, nor tasked to provide qualified-aircrew formal duties for such lookout, especially when concentrating on getting that 'good shot'.  That's what the recommendations of the report are addressing.

Zwei meir pfenning...
G2G


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