# C6/C9 and Grenade Range



## Northern Touch (24 Nov 2004)

Hey, I've got some video's of our platoon this summer on the range doing C6 and C9.  Is there anyway for me to post them?  They were sent to me by Razic, who visits here and was on course with me this summer but doesn't post much.  I know he wouldn't mind.  I just figured it would let those interested in joining the army see what it's like to be on a range.  There is also a small video from the grenade range.  

The sizes are 5mb, 5mb and 15mb.  Just wanted to run it by the mods and see if there was anything we could do.

Cheers.


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## zerhash (24 Nov 2004)

ive got a server but it is FTP (has trouble with explorer)


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## Da_man (24 Nov 2004)

i can host it... check your pms


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## Gouki (26 Nov 2004)

I would *love* to see these videos.


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## Spazkatt (26 Nov 2004)

Not to butt in, but these videos are here...   http://army.ca/forums/threads/23048.0.html


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## Thaedes (27 Nov 2004)

Just finished my SQ here in Meaford, I didn't particularly find the Grenade range to be all that fun.  For one, they didn't allow us to look through the view ports, apparently it was unsafe because the glass wasn't 3 inch thick.  Was only 2 inch thick.  The practice nades seemed to me to be a waste.  I threw one that went off just after coming out of my hand.  And figure, for the cost for every two or three of them you probably have yourself another real grenade.  Thankfully we only had two duds the whole time.  Apparently the course before us had 8 duds, so they spent the whole day on the grenade range instead of half there and half on the machine guns. 

The machine guns were more fun, but on our course critique the same thing I'm sure everyone else says... "MORE AMMO!"   We got lucky, and our instructors managed to get us 165 rnds for the C6 and 150 for the C9.  So a bit more then what they had to give us.  The phosphorous for the C9 ammo was practically worn off, so the only really thrill you got out of it was hitting the tank at about 150 to 200 m's out.   Makes a nice echo to boot.   And the C6, well thats just fun incarnate.  Not as much kick as everyone claims, but that thing can unleash some hell.  And the tracers for it were perfect.  Nothing like watching the ricochette shoot up some 50 to 100m's into the area after smashing into the turret of one of the tanks.  The experince was very good, it wasn't enough shooting to get a really good feel for those weapon systems, but its exactly what its supposed to be on the SQ - a familiarization shoot.   I wonder how stoppages are on the C9 and C6 under a more of a sustained fire role, IE  operating in a fire base for a platoon level attack.  

When we did our offensive and defensive dismounted ops in the field the C9 behaved well with the blanks, so long as you were firing in Adverse.   Any time I fired or watched someone fire in normal with the blanks with the C9 you may get one or two bursts out but she'd get a gas stoppage almost immediately.

My only beef with the SQ course was that they've cut Mine Awareness from it, thankfully Captain McArthur took flak for us by giving our course two extra days to fit in Mine awareness and a few other things that our instructors thought would be useful.  I really hope that those in charge of setting the length of a course take the course critiques from those of us going through the course and the instructors seriously and start expanding a little bit on the current SQ.

Anywho, take care.


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## MikeM (27 Nov 2004)

That's weird that you weren't allowed to look through the view ports, we were allowed, nobody said anything about it either.


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## Northern Touch (28 Nov 2004)

Thaedes said:
			
		

> J
> When we did our offensive and defensive dismounted ops in the field the C9 behaved well with the blanks, so long as you were firing in Adverse.   Any time I fired or watched someone fire in normal with the blanks with the C9 you may get one or two bursts out but she'd get a gas stoppage almost immediately.



Really?  Was the c9 preped for fire?  I watched my fire team partner last ex run 8 boxs through the C9, normal gas setting, and not one stoppage.

Yea, the grenades are really built up in movies with huge fire balls and stuff, which just doesn't happen.  Did you get any duds?  I think we had 2 on course.  A far cry from the 8 we had on our MLOC ex this year.  Talk about a bad batch.


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## Cpl. Williamson (29 Nov 2004)

> My only beef with the SQ course was that they've cut Mine Awareness from it



I cannot even begin to Imagine How many Levels of Wrong that is.

 :-\ :-\


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## Gouki (29 Nov 2004)

Yeah cause it's not as if anyone in the combat arms needs to know/be familiarized with mines, or as if any of the countries canadian soldiers do peacekeeping missions in have unexploded ordanance.

Oh wait ...


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## chrisf (1 Dec 2004)

Before going into any area with mines, I'm quite sure troops would given a refresher on mines... while it would be great if it could be taught on SQ as well, loosing it from the course is not a *major* issue, as they're not going to be exposed to mines within the country.


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## Mr. Ted (1 Dec 2004)

*Before going into any area with mines, I'm quite sure troops would given a refresher on mines... while it would be great if it could be taught on SQ as well, loosing it from the course is not a *major* issue, as they're not going to be exposed to mines within the country*

The extension of that logic is to not train soldiers in defensive operations because before anyone shoots at them, there'll be a quick class on defensive positions, and before incoming rounds start impacting and they have to quickly dig a shell scrape, there'll be a class on digging a shell scrape...

What kind of attitude is that?  Why not just eliminate everything from all courses because, "eventually, before they go into combat, someone will hold a quick combat refresher"...

Seems odd to me.

Mr. Ted


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## chrisf (2 Dec 2004)

Mr. Ted said:
			
		

> The extension of that logic is to not train soldiers in defensive operations because before anyone shoots at them, there'll be a quick class on defensive positions, and before incoming rounds start impacting and they have to quickly dig a shell scrape, there'll be a class on digging a shell scrape...
> 
> What kind of attitude is that?   Why not just eliminate everything from all courses because, "eventually, before they go into combat, someone will hold a quick combat refresher"...



You clearly missed my point. You don't need to know how to deal with mines for your SQ course. The bare minimum requirement is to conduct offensive and defensive operations. For this, you're going to need to know how to use the offensive weapons, and how to construct field fortifications. You won't have to deal with mines, as there's no sort of mine simulator (Unfortunately). Mine awareness can be taught post-SQ, at the unit level.

Would it be better if mine awareness could be taught during SQ? Of course, it is a basic thing soldiers need to know how to be able to deal with, and it ought to be reinstated. That being said, when I did mine awareness, it took one day. It's not a difficult thing to teach later on.


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Dec 2004)

Sorry, but that kind of nonsense plays right into the bean counters hands. A little snip here and one over there and next thing, they won't even be taught proper drill on BMQ. Oh wait, that's already happened. Same old , "Just enough to get by". Then standards drop, interest is lost and nobody cares. It then takes a generation to turn it around, like some third world country. Also, pre deployment is not somewhere to learn a skill that will save your, or your buddies, lives. Your courses are where you should be taught all the basics and during the year, on ex and in class, you expand and refine those skills.


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## zerhash (2 Dec 2004)

at the unit level mine awareness is taught yearly on MLOC training (im not a reg)
it should still be taught on SQ as a more in depth lesson because on MLOC it is just a refresher.

mine awareness is a basic skill that all soldures need. Not a skill that is learnt when it is necessary, because it is a skill that develops over time. The more practice the more aware you will be.


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## Thaedes (5 Dec 2004)

A quick thought on that, mine awareness that is.  Even though its off topic of this original thread.

For my SQ, we we're lucky as I've said before.  Captain McArthur went out of his way to get an extra two days of course material so we could do Mine Awareness training. 

Frankly, from my experience in SQ there is every reason to keep Mine Awareness training in.  It is a part of basic offensive and defensive operations.  Further, for those continuing on to BIQ, where we will be expected to place and work with certain types of mines it is perhaps only logical to have had some theoretical knowledge beforehand.

Would you hand someone a trip flare and tell them to go set it up without giving them a run down on its use?  Or would you just tell them seconds before they place it how to and hope they don't get nervous and let the spoon come off?

I know I'm illustrating an extremely absurd scenario, but the jist of the meanings there.  Similar to SHARP training, it should be compounded upon through many regular refresher courses starting from your first course.  Canadian's see deployment in some of the most heavily mine-strewn countries of the world, can we really take the chance of having ill-informed soldiers?


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