# C9 ammo box problems



## Pte AJB (23 Feb 2006)

In my brief career as a C9 gunner I have continually encountered difficulties with keeping the ammo box securely attached, as it seemingly chooses to detach itself at the most inopportune moments. I’ve seen American forces using soft fabric bags on their m249’s. I am wondering a) if anyone can direct me as to how to attain a few of these bags or b) any tips on keeping the c9 box secure. 

Thanks, 

PTE AJB


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## MikeL (23 Feb 2006)

Try ebay for the 100 round softpacks, or next time you train with US Troops, see if you can trade something.


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## SEB123 (23 Feb 2006)

Before going in exerxise go ask at your regiment qm they are supposed to have some. I was issued four of those at my qm


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## Da_man (23 Feb 2006)

I believe that when the box doesnt hold properly the problem is with the weapon, not the box.


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## Scoobie Newbie (23 Feb 2006)

SEB123 you wouldn't happen to have a NSN would you


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## Bartok5 (24 Feb 2006)

CFL,

I'll see if I can get you an NSN early next week.  Shouldn't be a problem, as I "own" the 3 VP QM.  We have boxes of the C9 soft-packs sitting on our B Class shelves - both the early Australian pattern and the OG Green.  Although the soft-packs are much quieter and more secure than the plastic ammo boxes, the troops don't seem to care for them.  The requirement to break belts and manually load the halves into the soft-packs is a PITA unless you are preparing for a specific mission that requires maximum stealth (eg.  a patrol).

If you don't hear from me by mid-next week, shoot me a PM reminder for the NSN.


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## MikeL (24 Feb 2006)

M249 Ammo Soft Pack (100. Round). 1005-01-334-1507


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## NATO Boy (24 Feb 2006)

Da_man said:
			
		

> I believe that when the box doesnt hold properly the problem is with the weapon, not the box.



If that's the case, every C9 in our lockup has the exact same problem... ???       An AmmoTech I talked to mentioned the possibility of a bad lot of C9 boxes... 
A lot of C9 Gunners in my unit have had this issue happen since this summer.


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## Scoobie Newbie (24 Feb 2006)

There isn't any 200 round belt bags?
Also is it a Light BN thing that you guys have the soft bags or a poor cousin thing that we don't?


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## Scoobie Newbie (24 Feb 2006)

Thanks Mike.


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## GO!!! (24 Feb 2006)

The "nut sack" as the americans call them, are overrated, in this former C9 gunner's opinion.

The belts often become twisted and stuck in the bag, dirt and snow gets in (more so than the ammo box) and the zippers often fail.

The problem with the issued boxes can be fixed though. Use a stow (large elastic band) tied into a knot and push it all the way under the tab that moves up and down on the box itself. Do this three or four times, and the tab will not be able to go down, so the box will stay on. 

If you put too many in, the box will be difficult to get off the gun in one piece - so play around a bit.

My home defence C9 is out for repairs, so I can't show any pics.  ;D


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## Mojo Magnum (24 Feb 2006)

Just finished my last week in the field for SQ in Meaford.  I enjoyed the priviledge of the C9 for the last three weeks.  The ammo box fell off on me repeatedly.  One day I counted seven different times.  

I know I've got much less experience with the C9 than you guys but, I have to add that some boxes did hang on longers than others.  Which leads me to suspect the problem is more with the box than the weapon.

But either way, I'm just happy to have the field portion of SQ behind me.


Cheers.


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## Pte AJB (24 Feb 2006)

Thanks for all the input guys. Before next ex. I'll be sure to ask the QM if they have any "nut sacks", though I probably won't use that colloquialism. In the event they don't I will have to have some rubber bands handy. They should solve the problem, thanks GO!!!, as I've noticed that the metal spring is too weak to keep the plastic latch in place and could use a little extra support.


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## MikeL (25 Feb 2006)

CFL, I think I've seen some US troops with 200 round softpacks, but I coulden't find a NSN for them.


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## Mojo Magnum (26 Feb 2006)

funny thing though,

the box never falls off the M249 on Rainbowsix3.
and how come the belt stays on the feed tray after he takes his hand off.

damn, I need one of those. ;D


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## Blunt Object (26 Feb 2006)

I've been told a simple piece of tape can fix the problem. I was never showed how to do it but they told me yiu just taped the tab up or down.  I'm sure someone in you unit will be able to help you.


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## jbeach95 (26 Feb 2006)

I've been a C9 gunner for the last 2.5 years. For the first two years, I had no problem with the box staying on. Since last summer though, it has become a real problem. Definitely a problem with the new boxes, not with the guns.


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## herseyjh (26 Feb 2006)

I found that the boxes would fail after being on the C9 for a while.  The plastic clip would get worn down and then it would fall off all the time.  I just rotated the boxes.  Now if this is happening right out of the crate then I think switching to a cloth pouch or something would be the way to go as nothing sucks more than making a move, just to leave half your ammo behind.


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## Bartok5 (27 Feb 2006)

OK, I took another look in our B Class stores cage at 3 PPCLI.  Here are the two types of C9 "soft pack" ammo carrier that we have:

1.  Older (Dec 2001-dated) U.S. Woodland Camouflage 100-rd Soft Pack:

- NSN 1005-01-334-1507
- Part Number 12944203
- MAGAZINE, CARTRIDGE, SOFT PACK 100 RD, REUSABLE

2.  Newer (2004-dated) Australian Olive Green 200-rd Soft Pack:

- NSN 1005-66-143-5979
- MAGAZINE (CLOTH) COLLAPSIBLE 200 RDS FOR MINIMI F89 OLIVE

Of the two different versions, the Aussie OG 200-rd soft-pack appears to be the better choice.  It holds a full belt of 200 rds, has a sturdy spring-steel lock/release latch, and is constructed from very robust materials with nylon-taped edges, rivets, etc.  

As "GO!!!" correctly pointed out however, the soft-packs can be a PITA to load and use under field conditions.  This is particularly so when a partial belt has room to bounce around inside the pack and become twisted/tangled.  

On the plus side, the soft packs are much quieter to carry than the standard plastic cans.  They are useful for dismounted patrolling or other occasions where noise is a concern.


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## MikeL (27 Feb 2006)

You can always add some cardboard inside the ammo box an that should help quiet it up.


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Feb 2006)

Thanks Mark


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## GO!!! (27 Feb 2006)

In my experience, the only real "use" for the soft pack is to use for walking around the camp, when you can't leave your weapon behind.

You already have your Kite sight, PAQ-4, and gucci bipod on, so to keep your zero but cut down the weight, just throw 50 rounds in the bag for going to the shower or mess etc. This is no different than the C7s and C8s who "strip down" some of their gear for administrative stuff.

I would not bring one anywhere where you might *use* it, they are just too unreliable.


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Feb 2006)

"I would not bring one anywhere where you might use it, they are just too unreliable."
Thanks for that


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## Fusaki (1 Mar 2006)

I've been issued the 200rd soft pouches, used them for a few weeks, and in the end considered them a liability and switched back to the boxes. As pointed out earlier, the rounds tend to fold and get dislodged from the link inside the bag when the weapon is placed on its bipod - a problem compounded by the telescopic/folding butt of the C9A2. When the weight of the C9 is distributed between the bag and the bipod, the rounds inside just get all twisted up.

A few solutions I've seen:

A teaser belt: Something I totally disagree with. It defeats the purpose of having an LMG at the section level because a 50rd belt hanging off the weapon is probably going to run out just as the riflemen are reloading, if not sooner. IMHO this isn't really a "solution", but I've mentioned it anyways because I've seen guys get away with it.

American 200rd Boxes: This were what I used. The American boxes have metal clips on the top of them, as opposed to the crappy Canadian ones. I managed to scrounge a couple of these, switched the rounds from the cdn box to the US ones, and saved the cdn boxes so when I eventually returned the ammo the Lot Numbers were still accurate. The US boxes lasted considerably longer without falling off the weapon without sacrificing reliability. A couple slips of cardboard cut out to the shape of the inside of the box cut down on noise, and I proved that this would not cause stoppages by inserting these cardboard pieces in the ammo boxes I used on the range.

A guntaped abortion of a 200rd soft pouch: A friend of mine realized that the reason the rounds were folding in the bag was that the dimensions of it caused the weight of the weapon to sit on the rounds when stood on its bipod. He managed to use guntape to fold the softpouch in a way that would cut down on its profile and essentially make a 200rd soft pouch into a 100rd soft pouch. I'm not sure how reliable this was.

A REAL 100rd soft pouch: The Recce Pl was issued these, and they seem to me like the best solution. If you have a 100rd pouch on your weapon, and 200rd boxes in your fighting order you should be able to provide the required level of firepower without sacrificing reliability or having to deal with that stupid ass box always falling off.

GO!!!'s elastic band technique seems like a good idea too, and more practical for training in Canada then anything I've mentioned.


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## Britney Spears (1 Mar 2006)

My big gripe with the hard box is that it makes it a PITA to fire from the shoulder. I imagine the 100 round pouch addresses this?


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## TCBF (1 Mar 2006)

"My big gripe with the hard box is that it makes it a PITA to fire from the shoulder."

- Never had a problem.

 ;D

Tom


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## Matt_Fisher (1 Mar 2006)

This thread makes me wonder why nobody has requested that a 100 round plastic box be made up?  The rigidity of the box would keep the rounds from becoming tangled and coming in at half the weight of the 200 round box, the clip mechanism would more likely be less prone to breakage/coming undone.


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## kyleg (1 Mar 2006)

Do I sense another innovation from ICE Tactical, Matt?


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## Matt_Fisher (1 Mar 2006)

I'd love to come up with robust plastic 100 round box, but we're not really in the injection moulding business.  With that said, I do see some areas that the 100 round soft pack could be improved through the placement of polyethylene sheeting along the sides and bottom.


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## KevinB (1 Mar 2006)

The only soft bag I have seen of any use was the 100rd AUSCAM - the 200 seemed to awkward and prone to self release.

That said the pastic box is the best choice - unless you are in sneaky mode -- however clipping the box to the pintel on a vehicle will rapidly wear any of the clip out -- and voila you have a nice streaming belt running down the side of your vehicle


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## Britney Spears (1 Mar 2006)

> "My big gripe with the hard box is that it makes it a PITA to fire from the shoulder."
> 
> - Never had a problem.
> 
> ...



Why, if this is supposed to be a sideswipe about my upper body strength, I'll have you know that I feel harassed, HARASSED!  :crybaby:


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## TCBF (2 Mar 2006)

Trust me, I am in no position to be slamming anyone else's upper body strength at the moment.

Rickety Tom


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## Forgotten_Hero (4 Mar 2006)

> My big gripe with the hard box is that it makes it a PITA to fire from the shoulder.



Ive noticed that too. When holding the hand grip, your awkwardly has to bend around the box, I find. If the box wasnt in the way, my grip on the handgrip would be much better, I think. It doesnt cause too much of a problem though.


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## GO!!! (4 Mar 2006)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> My big gripe with the hard box is that it makes it a PITA to fire from the shoulder.



In this case, simply fire from the hip, we all know it is far more accurate, and as an added bonus, the enemy will be so taken aback by the sight of John Rambo a Canadian soldier firing from such a position, you will have enough time to walk the rounds onto him!  ;D


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## jbeach95 (5 Mar 2006)

With the old boxes that actually used to stay on the weapons, I would sometimes hold on to the bottom of the box while firing from the shoulder (especially while firing at elevated positions). It worked quite well, actually.

I don't really find it a problem to use the handguard with a box on, but it probably depends on the length of the shooter's arms.


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## spacelord (6 Mar 2006)

JBeach said:
			
		

> I don't really find it a problem to use the handguard with a box on, but it probably depends on the length of the shooter's arms.



I can second that.  I'm a fairly big guy, and I find that the box rest right on my elbow when holding on to the frot hand guard.


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## CommonSenseNCO (18 Mar 2006)

>The belts often become twisted and stuck in the bag, dirt and snow gets in (more so than the ammo box) and the zippers often fail.

If don't fill the 200  Rd bags all the way, say 180 rds, this helps prevent bunching. Using Lypsol on the zipper helps prevent it from jamming and breaking. We've just got these and are still comparing them to the boxes though. We have found that they are easier to get in and  out of the C-9 ammo pouches on the tac vest.

Does anyone  have any solutions for carrying more C-9 ammo in the new tac vest?


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## GO!!! (18 Mar 2006)

CommonSenseNCO said:
			
		

> Does anyone  have any solutions for carrying more C-9 ammo in the new tac vest?



Buy your own vest! 

The Israeli "ISAAK" rig in the SAW configuration works well, as do a few of the purpose built support weapon rigs from Arktis, BH etc.

The only problem then is convincing your CoC to let you use it!

A more "CSM friendly" option is to take the utility pouches from your new small pack, and attach them to the three straps that run from the front panel on the back of your tac vest to the back, so that they are placed around your hips. These are big enough to fit a box of C9 +, and as an added bonus, you can put your cigarettes, chew and flask in the mag pouches on your chest!


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## armypoomba101 (13 Oct 2006)

There is no stock number (NSN) for the 200 round soft packs yet. The US Army is getting them on the rapid fielding initiative. I am keeping my eyes peeled for an NSN, since I am the unit supply NCO. When I get one, I'll pass the knowledge on to you guys.


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## MG34 (16 Oct 2006)

The 200 round soft packs areJUNK,better to go with the 100 round bags.They are much more reliable and lessen the weight on the c9...and did I mention the 200 round bags are crap??


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## KevinB (18 Oct 2006)

I'm not sure Gerry -- can you say that again...  ;D

Seriously -- we have been belabouring that point to the Nth degree and some moron always wants to buy more


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## Infanteer (18 Oct 2006)

So, where can I get a good 200 rnd soft pack for the C9?


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## KevinB (18 Oct 2006)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> So, where can I get a good 200 rnd soft pack for the C9?


 ;D

I thought 2LT's where to be seen and not heard


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