# Running at BMQ. Do they time you?



## rormson (21 Jul 2004)

Can anyone who has finished or who is currently is completing BMQ describe the running routine and whether or not you are timed? I'm assuming that the key objective is to keep up to the team and to finish the prescribed distances, but are there any time/distance targets set out? (This question pertains to weekend BMQ for PRes and not Reg Force.)

Thanks.


----------



## Sundborg (21 Jul 2004)

If you are going to be going to the Reg force BMQ in St-Jean, then they will not be timing you.   What they do is they let you run for a certain amount of time.   At first they start you out at 15 or 20 mins., then gradually work up by 5 minute increments.   They tell you in that time how many laps of this small indoor track one should complete in that time.   The amount of laps that you complete are not recorded anywhere.   They do not time you on a 2.4km run.


----------



## G3RM (21 Jul 2004)

Just like what the sheet says.... You should be able to run 5KM... If you can do that or even 4KM  you got nothing to worrie about.


----------



## Tigger (22 Jul 2004)

Sundborg said:
			
		

> They tell you in that time how many laps of this small indoor track one should complete in that time.



A bit out of the topic question, Sundborg:
If the track is indoor, what do we need 2 pairs of running shoes for (they say one for indoor and one for outdoor)?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## wackymax (22 Jul 2004)

More specifically, how frequently do they bump up the running time?

eg.
Week 1 - 15min
Week 2 - 20min
Week 3 - 25min??


----------



## Sundborg (22 Jul 2004)

If you wish, you can bring your own running shoes there from home.  You will be issued a pair of runners there anyway, so it's always good to bring an extra so you have two.  When you do PT, you have the option of wearing either pair.  We never did PT outside, but I did my BMQ from Feb to April, so I don't know if it's just a seasonal thing.

WRT the increase in time, you wont be doing it every week and end up running for an hour or anything like that.  You may not even do a timed run until the 3rd week, but I can't quite recall when we started.  But anyhow, they may start at either 15 or 20 minutes, and work there way up to 35 I think.  So in total you do about 3 or 4 runs.


----------



## wackymax (22 Jul 2004)

It's really that straightforward? I mean, I heard there are daily runs first thing in the morning!


----------



## NavyGrunt (22 Jul 2004)

No.

Actually you're gonna feel silly about all the running talk. I know I did.


----------



## wackymax (22 Jul 2004)

Sigh, at least I'll be ready for it...


----------



## NavyGrunt (22 Jul 2004)

Thats true. I was in good shape and had no problems because I concentrated so much on my running.


----------



## webster (23 Jul 2004)

Would they issue trackpants/shorts as well or do u bring your own?


----------



## Sundborg (23 Jul 2004)

Civilian said:
			
		

> Would they issue trackpants/shorts as well or do u bring your own?



They issue you a "Sweatpants/hoody" combo there, but You wont wear it during PT.  Don't bother bringing your own track pants and stuff like that, you will end up wearing your issued PT shorts anyway, and t-shirt.


----------



## webster (23 Jul 2004)

Thanks for the reply


----------



## AndrewWGrieve (24 Jul 2004)

In reality, there is no real PT standardization for BMQ.  It is generally left up to the Platoon Commander or the training OC.  When my recruits arrive for BMQ, they will be doing a 2400m timed run.  When they finish BMQ, they will do another 2400m timed run.  No one will fail for PT, as there is no PT standard, but timing the troops will show them how they have improved over the course.  The same goes for pushups, situps, and chinups.


----------



## Sundborg (24 Jul 2004)

YoungOfficer said:
			
		

> In reality, there is no real PT standardization for BMQ.   It is generally left up to the Platoon Commander or the training OC.   When my recruits arrive for BMQ, they will be doing a 2400m timed run.   When they finish BMQ, they will do another 2400m timed run.   No one will fail for PT, as there is no PT standard, but timing the troops will show them how they have improved over the course.   The same goes for pushups, situps, and chinups.


Are you serious?  People DO fail BMQ and get recoursed due to failing to make a standard level of fitness.  I had a couple of people on my course who were in that situation.  I don't know if you are referring to Reserves or not, but if you are working at St-Jean as one of the instructors, let me know; maybe it is all just threats that they give us.


----------



## Thaedes (25 Jul 2004)

Well im just starting my third week here at Saint-jean of BMQ.  I can tell you a bit about the running.  Like someone else said, they will issue you a pair of runners regardless of what you bring, for myself I found them to be clunky and poor for running.  But whatever works right?

As for PT kit,  you get issue two pairs of shorts, 4 pairs of pt t-shirts, 1 pt long shirt/pant and thats it for pt kit.  Depending on your staff you may or may not have to wear the issued shoes until the end of indoc (4th week).  As far as my platoon was concerned (R0153E) we had hardly anything to do with physical activity the first week other then what you did with your own initiative.  The first week mainly comprised of paper work, sorting out the issued kit some classes and getting used to the swing of things.  The second week however is when you do both the swim test and then later the PT test.  Swim test was fairly easy for me, I'm a strong swimmer  but some people just weren't cut out for it.  One of the guys in my Platoon failed it once and then in the 6th week of his BMQ had enough directives to get recoursed.  So he ended up starting it all over again with my platoon, and a second time he failed the swimming test - just goes to show some people dont have the right stuff to pass it.   As for the PT test, they had us come in warm up/stretch.  Then they had us do the shuttle run - none of its timed.  Though I suggest if you get a chance first to watch others do the PT test first to get the timing down pat.  You have to make it to the 6th stage for guys under 20,  and 10.5 for the incentive.  I stopped at 11 because no one else was running - it was kind of funny because the padre came up to me afterwards and was like, "Why did you stop running?  you were so good! you should have kept going!"   The padre here is hilarious, the guy is the best.

This monday, the start of the 3rd week for me we have a run in the morning for 5am, and for now on 3 times a week we will be having 5am runs.  And as for the indoor track, we haven't used it yet, our platoon WO ran with us for our first time the other day, and ended up shouting at us at the end of the day because only a small handful of us could keep up.  I must admit, my platoon is more then out of shape, 15 people out of 58 failed the PT test.  As for how long you run?  well that depends mostly on your instructors pace.  They tend to aim for 2.5 k's for the second week, the third they want 3 to 4k's, fifth they want 5 to 6, and eventually they want us to be running 8k's.   For me, even the 8ks isn't a problem, but in my platoon there are only 6 other guys who can run that.

Few pieces of advice:   1)  Always make sure your locker and kit is secured - if not you'll get a directive.   2)  Always have your canteen with you - if not, you'll get a directive.  3)  Whenever your going to the drill hall, bring along your rain gear - if not, you can get a directive.   4)  Learn to keep your opinion to yourself at times, the first two weeks everyone in the platoon is shouting "We have to work as a team guys!" and everyones too busy trying to get everyone else to work as a team to realize that the course senior and the section seniors are the leaders.   5) Always listen to course seniors/section seniors, you'll be one at some point and you'll enjoy it a lot more if people listen to you.  Not to mention, its written in the Student Standing Orders that the seniors are a part of the chain of command, and therefore they are in control in the absence of staff.  Ergo, disobeying them can get you a directive.   6)  See if you can get here early, like a day or so, that way you get an opportunity to go to the canex and pick up some spare equipment and any other necessities you may have forgotten.  Believe me, the first week everyone will be scrambling for this that and the other thing.


What else can I say?  Really there is so much its hard to write it all down here.  The best thing you can do really is to give it your all.  As my Mcpl keeps saying, "Put some drive in your body!"  

Oh and one other word of advice, if your anglophone, be ware, 90% of the instructors here are franco and have a thick accent.  Its easy to understand in class, but in the drill hall when they are hollaring out the words of command and you can't understand what it is they are saying you will find yourself unable to immediately react and perform the action required - hence you get b*tched at for it.  There is a short PO here who can really lay in on you, and believe me, its not fun being on the recieving end.

Best of Luck!


----------



## Greywolf (25 Jul 2004)

Nobody wears the running shoes that are issued because they're crap.  Even the instructors said so.  SO bring your own!  I believe right now, there's still a retest for everything if you fail the 1st time.  But if you fail the 2nd time, you're released (used to be recoursed, but not anymore).  

The short PO?  Yeah, I know who you mean.  I think he's a pretty good instructor, but a lot of people think otherwise...Hey, Thaedes, who are your section commanders?

As for running, if you're running on the track outside, mostly you go at your own pace and if you can't finish 6km or whatever in 20 min...oh well, just try harder next time.


----------



## Bert (25 Jul 2004)

Greywolf

Just to clarify your statement a bit more, if a recruit fails a a 2nd attempt at the fitness test in BMQ, 
the recruit is NOT automatically released.  The issue goes to a Board and they decide an action.  

We had a recuit on our course that acquired tendonitis of the elbow and couldn't perform push-ups.  He
was recoursed and not released.  They look at the record of the recuit and the medical situation.


----------



## Greywolf (25 Jul 2004)

Well, yeah, I guess so.  They do look at the individual situation and if say for the PT test, somebody failed due to injuries, then probably they won't be released, but will be given time to recover (and get recoursed).  BUt say for the weapons test, if you fail the 2nd time, you get released (I was told by the PO just 3 weeks ago when I was in Farnham).  The rules have just changed and come into effect.


----------



## AndrewWGrieve (25 Jul 2004)

I'm talking about a reserve BMQ, which we're running in Chilliwack right now.  And no one fails for poor PT performance in reserve BMQ.  As I said, we don't even have the shuttle run PT test.  The test we are going to do for my course is only to see how people improve as the course progresses.  I know some people failed on my CAP(R) course for PT failure, so I'm not sure why some Reservists are evaluated for PT and some are not.


----------



## Sundborg (25 Jul 2004)

YoungOfficer said:
			
		

> I'm talking about a reserve BMQ, which we're running in Chilliwack right now.   And no one fails for poor PT performance in reserve BMQ.   As I said, we don't even have the shuttle run PT test.   The test we are going to do for my course is only to see how people improve as the course progresses.   I know some people failed on my CAP(R) course for PT failure, so I'm not sure why some Reservists are evaluated for PT and some are not.



Alright, now it's all straight in my mind.   I though you were referring to Reg force.

By the way, why does reserves have different standards or ways of going about PT?   In the end, all members, reg or res, should be at the same standard because they are all required to do that same type of work.


----------



## rcr (25 Jul 2004)

Greywolf said:
			
		

> As for running, if you're running on the track outside, mostly you go at your own pace and if you can't finish 6km or whatever in 20 min...oh well, just try harder next time.



6 km's in less than 20 minutes you say? Looks like i'll have a lot more to look forward to.


----------



## K. Ash (25 Jul 2004)

Hey Thaedes, great post. Got alot from it.

Well except for the 'groan' wrt most of the french accents. Don't get me wrong, nothing against the french, regretfully I don't speak it.


----------



## AndrewWGrieve (25 Jul 2004)

There is no PT standard in the reserves.  Because you are only a class 'A' soldier, and are therefore not always under the command of the military, they cannot make you do PT on your own time.  And because they cannot force you to do it, they cannot test it.  That's just the way it goes.  That is why you can see some rather sizeable reserve force members.  Very disappointing.


----------



## Sundborg (25 Jul 2004)

YoungOfficer said:
			
		

> There is no PT standard in the reserves.   Because you are only a class 'A' soldier, and are therefore not always under the command of the military, they cannot make you do PT on your own time.   And because they cannot force you to do it, they cannot test it.   That's just the way it goes.   That is why you can see some rather sizeable reserve force members.   Very disappointing.



I read you.  That's undstandable.


----------



## y2kroachman (25 Jul 2004)

i just finished bmq, and you run every morning for about 5k, and if people hang back, you circle around to pick them up therefore adding to the length. Running every morning = borring, wish they woukld throw in some circuit training


----------



## rormson (26 Jul 2004)

YoungOfficer said:
			
		

> I'm talking about a reserve BMQ, which we're running in Chilliwack right now.   And no one fails for poor PT performance in reserve BMQ.   As I said, we don't even have the shuttle run PT test.   The test we are going to do for my course is only to see how people improve as the course progresses.   I know some people failed on my CAP(R) course for PT failure, so I'm not sure why some Reservists are evaluated for PT and some are not.



Thanks YoungOfficer. This reply is useful in relation to the question that I started this thread about which was for the Reserves. Is your BMQ course being held on weekends?


----------



## wackymax (26 Jul 2004)

y2k, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for the info bro!


----------



## Tigger (18 Aug 2004)

Another clarification needed  

If I want to achieve more or less the level they want to see at the END of BOTC, is it enough that I can run 45 min without really big effort or it has to be 1 hr?
So far, I'm just afraid to push for more   :-[


----------



## PARAMEDIC (20 Aug 2004)

nice advice thades
maybe thades or gerywolf can answer this question ...whats PO stand for, is it platoon offficer??
also if you can let us know whats the required amount of pushups during basic PT test??
thx


----------



## Tigger (21 Aug 2004)

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> nice advice thades
> maybe thades or gerywolf can answer this question ...whats PO stand for, is it platoon offficer??
> also if you can let us know whats the required amount of pushups during basic PT test??
> thx


Those things even I know (correct me someone pls, if I'm wrong)   :dontpanic:

PO is Petty Officer (navy).
Pushups - 19 at the beginning (same as the first one), 30 by the end of the course (taken from the info booklet that I received just b4 swear in)


----------



## Bert (21 Aug 2004)

In BMQ, the push-ups required are the minimum as set out in the CF Fitness standards and this
standard is used in the BMQs fitness test.   No where are you required to do 30 push-ups by the 
end of the course. BMQ is not a fitness course.

HOWEVER.   Given the amount of PT and conditioning that you get during BMQ, it is likely the 
number push-ups you can do at the beginning and at the end of the course will increase. 
Weight-lifters acutally complain about loosing muscle mass though.   When training for the
fitness test, its better to focus on a over-all fitness (strength, endurance, and cardio) program 
for the activities you'll be doing once you get into the military.   Training only for the minimum 
standard or just for the fitness test won't be useful. 

In the military, you may be tasked for long marches, carry heavy loads like rucksacks, deploy
to an area and set-up equipment, maintain combat readiness, move around/over obstacles, 
work long hours with little sleep, and being in excellent physical shape is very helpful.  It
can stretch an individual physically, mentally, and emotionally and good physical conditioning
helps to keep one persevering as well as good attitude, teamwork, and drive.  I wouldn't
worry about the number of push-ups or push-ups specifically, just get into the best 
over-all shape you can to meet the challenges you may face in the military.


----------



## Tigger (21 Aug 2004)

Thanks for the clarification, bert!

I was not sure if what they have in the booklet is the exact level to pass or just an approximate reference


----------



## PARAMEDIC (1 Sep 2004)

thx tigger for clearing things up . 

I know it stands for petty officer but i was confused as to if it would be different in the army as to navy
coz i wasnt sure if navy ranking would be applicable to the army or vice versa. 
i was thinking that army PO stands for something completly different than navy PO

thx


----------



## Pugnacious (1 Sep 2004)

Good info Thaedes, thanx!

I'm an older fart (36) so I wasn't looking forward to the running, but now I have a better idea of what is coming up.
I used to run, and do track so It shouldn't be a problem to get back to it, and work off my "married weight". ;D

Time to buy me some Runners...

Cheers!
P.


----------



## Tigger (2 Sep 2004)

I'm still curious, what those "reference figures" in the info booklet mean then. The say that you have to do 2.4 km in AT LEAST 12 min.
I can run now 8 km for 52 min, so supposedly I'm ok. But I'm almost killing myself  :threat: and sill CANNOT make these 2.4/12 min. Does it mean I'm at the risk of not passing something (even at the initial PT re-evaluation)?  ???


----------



## 48Highlander (2 Sep 2004)

You don't have to meet that standard on your course.  You don't even have to be close to it.  Mainly the course staff will just be looking for an improvement.  If you start the course doing 2.4km in 16 minutes and end the course doing it in 15 minutes, it'll be noted that your PT standard improved, and that's that.  A low personal PT standard will not fail you off a course unless it's so bad that you're unable to keep up in the field.


----------



## Tigger (2 Sep 2004)

Thanks a lot 48H !

Indeed very short and extremely clear!


----------



## casing (2 Sep 2004)

Don't worry, Tigger, we can be jogging buddies on course.  I can go far, but not fast.


----------



## Pugnacious (2 Sep 2004)

Is there a time in the course were they load you up with a heavy pack and combat gear, and send you on a forced march?
Or is this Hollywood BS?

Cheers!
P.


----------



## Pieman (2 Sep 2004)

> Is there a time in the course were they load you up with a heavy pack and combat gear, and send you on a forced march?


Hey Pug, check out the renewed FAQ section, it has really been re-organized for the better! 



> The Army's standard fitness event is the Battle Fitness Test, or "BFT." The BFT is a "Weight-load march" with the requirement
> for soldiers to complete 13 km in 2 hours and 26 minutes.




Now, I have a question about BMQ running (I checked but I hope it has not been answered yet or is not in FAQ   :-[) 

What kind of surface do you run on regularly during BMQ? I have been having trouble with shin splints if I run on a hard surface or road on a regular basis. I even have special shoes to prevent shin splints, but if i push my luck and run on a hard surface too much I pay the price!   If I run on a field or track, then I never have problems. Anyone here have shin splint problems and can offer some advice?


----------



## Pugnacious (3 Sep 2004)

Faq section reorganized! 
Holy CaRp!

Thanx for the heads up PIEMAN I'll check it out now.

Cheers!
P.


----------



## Carpenter (3 Sep 2004)

Just reading above, 6km in 20 minutes is just a bit slower than a 5:00 per mile pace, which will just about crucify anyone who isn't a very good middle distance or long distance runner.  The JTF-2 qualifying standard is 9:00 for 2.4km, which is a 6:00 per mile pace, and is actually pretty brisk to run.

If you are looking for advice on training to pass the 2.4 km run with a good time, head to a running store and join a clinic, or get a program tailored to what you are trying to achieve.  Probably, it will involve working up to a good base distance (5-6km) and then working on speed from that point using interval training and some moderate speedwork.  Don't increase either your mileage or your speed too quickly if you want to avoid getting injured.  Give it three months, and you should have no problem at all running 2.4 km in less than 12 minutes.  I started from scratch and am not a runner by any means, and in three months I got my time for 2.4 km down to 9:53.  Anyhow, I hope this helps.


----------

