# VAC and Tinnitus



## supremedebater

I am fighting a claim for my Tinnitus. I was wondering if there is anyone out there that fought them and won after they had no prior history i.e medical reports. There saying because I do not have any background of Tinnitus, I cannot claim Tinnitus? And its at the final level of Appeal and I could use someones help from someone that won in my similar position. Can anyone help?


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## Armymedic

Its a tough thing to prove or disprove you actually have tinnitus because its a symptom. By "background" they mean traumatic brain injury, long term exposure to noise, or have had your eardrums broken because of explosions or barotrauma; all common causes of tinnitus.


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## the 48th regulator

What does your Doctor say?

dileas

tess


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## Cdnleaf

You have to decide what it is that you're actually claiming.  I.e Tinnitus or hearing loss subsequent to tinnitus.  It is possible to have tinnitus without hearing loss - frequency loss yes; however a person still can be a H1/H2 with tinnitus.  If your claim is for tinnitus - then you have to demonstrate the impact tinnitus had on your life.  For example using the Subjective Units of Distress Scale (SUDS) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_units_of_distress_scale argue the impact it has had on your daily life, family and functioning.

You can also establish objectively through auditory exams - frequency loss and then subjectively how this has impacted your ability in Sound Localization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_localization.  Included with this could be the impact Tinnitus has on your sound discrimination, google for info and please do some research prior to going to the board.

Similar to the above advice, you must establish and provide information/documentation concerning the specific nexus your Tinnitus has to military service.  Specifically when the injury/incident took place and how that resulted in your hearing/frequency loss and subsequent Tinnitus.  Stating without example/documentation, that your tinnitus is a result of chronic exposure to loud noises is not sufficient IMHO.

My grandfather was a WWII Vet and similar to his generation, suffered from this for years.  Good luck with your claim.  Also - talk with your lawyer, I would suggest that this is not his/her first 'final level of appeal,' or Tinnitus Claim.  All the best, Dan.


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## Chewie

Yes members have won awards for Tinnitus...especially in certain fields ie EGS Techs, Stokers etc....


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## BDTyre

A friend just received a lump sum for tinnitus and hearing damage. I'm in a similar boat as him, possibly in a "better" situation (so to speak). His tinnitus was a pre-existing condition worsened by service - mine was non-existant prior to service, particularly my deployment. My hearing damage/loss (not sure how they'd categorize it) has also significantly worsened, especially in my right ear, since my deployment. Enough so to make me borderline in terms of meeting medical standards. I'm not sure how that will be taken into consideration. I'm not sure how they can medically prove the existance of tinnitus in a person, but I've had an audiologist declare that I have it, so I can't see VAC trying to argue against that one.

On the advice of the local VAC rep at 39CBG, I put in a claim for both tinnitus and hearing loss. VAC in Vancouver seems to have had no problems with me claiming for both (they two are most likely related, but are completely different issues). My file has gone on to Charlottetown and while the timeline says it could be mid-summer before I get an answer, based on my friend's experience (he submitted his claim a month or so before me), I won't be surprised if I hear back from them in the next month or so.


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## Rifleman62

I very much believe, based on discussions with a specialist, VAC bases it's tinnitus on the results of your audio gram for hearing. There is no way to measure tinnitus.


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## BDTyre

Just an update - my claim for tinnitus was approved (11%, payment at 10%, not sure why). The document I received outlines why/why not and here is what they said in a summarized format:
- service medical records
- my statement and available medical info
- all service audiograms
- a Consultant Clinical report (i.e. report from an audiologist)
- declaration of injury during service in an SDA (I'm guessing my CF98 or other form from in-theatre)
- various reports from after my tour

The rejected my claim for general hearing loss, which makes sense as I'm still able to meet my trade's medical category so obviously my hearng loss is not disabling.

Just in general, for those waiting for a decision from VAC, the paperwork is subject to human error. For instance, it dates my audiologist report as being in August 2007, well before my tour (should be August 2010) and says I was in Afghanistan from October 2009 to May 2011 (okay....).  ;D


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## Occam

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> I very much believe, based on discussions with a specialist, VAC bases it's tinnitus on the results of your audio gram for hearing. There is no way to measure tinnitus.



Well, that's not entirely accurate.  A tinnitus assessment done by a clinical audiologist can usually nail down specifics of the tinnitus.  In my case, tinnitus was "most accurately and repeatedly matched to a frequency of 71 Hz at an intensity level of 58 dB".  How accurate are those results?  I don't know - but VAC accepted them into evidence for my hearing loss and tinnitus claim.



			
				CanadianTire said:
			
		

> Just an update - my claim for tinnitus was approved (11%, payment at 10%, not sure why).



Disability amounts are rounded to the nearest 5%.  



> The rejected my claim for general hearing loss, which makes sense as I'm still able to meet my trade's medical category so obviously my hearng loss is not disabling.



That's not necessarily true either.  I was finally able to get a partial hearing loss claim approved (5% disability, 2/5 pension entitlement, resulting in a 2% overall pension awarded - not enough to raise me to the next payment level), yet I'm still an H2.  Most of my hearing loss is at high frequency, which is only needed to obtain an H1 hearing category.  If you didn't get approved for a general hearing loss claim, then that's because the evidence either did not support that you have enough hearing loss to support the claim, or that it was not caused by military service.  They only awarded 2/5 entitlement to me as they believe the evidence supported part of my hearing loss being attributed to a labrynthine disorder (which, oddly enough, cannot be conclusively diagnosed).  I'm considering appealing the hearing loss decision for two reasons;  one, how can they prove the existence of a labrynthine disorder and disprove that the entire hearing loss wasn't caused by noise exposure; and two, how can hearing loss not result from a 71 Hz tone injected into one ear at an intensity level of 58 dB on a 24/7 basis?



> Just in general, for those waiting for a decision from VAC, the paperwork is subject to human error. For instance, it dates my audiologist report as being in August 2007, well before my tour (should be August 2010) and says I was in Afghanistan from October 2009 to May 2011 (okay....).  ;D



I'm not surprised in the slightest.  Half of my audiograms from two different medical clinics didn't get forwarded to VAC.  Good thing I followed up on what VAC actually had in hand, compared to what I knew they _*should have had*_ in hand.


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## BDTyre

Occam - good to know. It might be worth me pursuing the hearing loss claim, as from what I've been told it is definitely due to noise exposure, and beforee joining I was not exposed to loud noises on a constant basis. I'll have to re-read the decision though, as I have a feeling that my hearing loss might not fall within the standards set by VAC.


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## Rifleman62

Here is the link to VAC's current, 2006 (revised Nov 07) Table of Disabilities. http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/sub.cfm?source=dispen/2006tod/pdf

See Page 3, 7 and 10, for Tinnitus.

You could print this doc and take it to an Audiologist for explanation.


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## BDTyre

A more general question here...a friend has also had his tinnitus claim approved. He was initially happy with the compensation, but now that its been a month or two, he's starting to think it might be worth his time to go to the review board. We've both talked to a few people and have been given different opinions. If the cheque from VAC is cashed and some or all of the money spent, will this damage a person's odds of getting bumped to the next level?


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## Occam

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> A more general question here...a friend has also had his tinnitus claim approved. He was initially happy with the compensation, but now that its been a month or two, he's starting to think it might be worth his time to go to the review board. We've both talked to a few people and have been given different opinions. If the cheque from VAC is cashed and some or all of the money spent, will this damage a person's odds of getting bumped to the next level?



No, once you've been approved for a certain level you don't jeopardize it by appealing.  In other words, you can cash the cheque and it won't affect the outcome of an appeal.

That said, does your friend realize that there are only two levels for tinnitus, 5% and 10% disability?


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## Fishbone Jones

Occam said:
			
		

> No, once you've been approved for a certain level you don't jeopardize it by appealing.  In other words, you can cash the cheque and it won't affect the outcome of an appeal.
> 
> That said, does your friend realize that there are only two levels for tinnitus, 5% and 10% disability?



Unless you have quality of life issues which will add percentage points between 5 and 10.

i.e. - Medical Impairment rating is 5%
       Quality of Life rating is 1%
       The disability assessment is - 5% + 1% = 6%


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## BDTyre

Occam said:
			
		

> No, once you've been approved for a certain level you don't jeopardize it by appealing.  In other words, you can cash the cheque and it won't affect the outcome of an appeal.
> 
> That said, does your friend realize that there are only two levels for tinnitus, 5% and 10% disability?



No, neither of us were aware of that. I'd read a post here about a month ago of someone being awarded 15%, but as recceguy pointed out there may have been quality of life issues.


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## Occam

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> No, neither of us were aware of that. I'd read a post here about a month ago of someone being awarded 15%, but as recceguy pointed out there may have been quality of life issues.



If it was 15%, it wasn't just for tinnitus.  At the maximum impairment rating of 10%, the maximum QOL rating is 2%, resulting in a 12% disability rating.

Tinnitus - Table 9.3

QOL ratings - Table 2.2

Perhaps the one you read also had a hearing loss rating as well?


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## Rifleman62

Don't forget that once you "win" the disability assessment, the pension entitlement battle must be won:

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/sub.cfm?source=dispen

For example, actual case: 5% disability for a march fracture during battle fitness test. Absolute documentation. Soldier receives a 5% disability. Wrong. Incredibility, VAC determines that the military service played only a minimal part in the disability, and assesses 1/5 of an entitlement for a disability. Therefore 1/5 of 5% is 1%= 1% disability, 0 dollars.

Appeal: Review Hearing, followed by the Appeal Hearing. Three years later entitlement 3/5 granted. Therefore 3/5 of 5% = 3% disability.
Why 1/5 or 3/5 entitlement for an injury doing mandated battle fitness test is beyond me.

That said, I believe VAC approves, with documentation, Tinnitus at 5/5 entitlement , 5% and 10% disability.

At link:

Pension Entitlement is

    * Based solely on the relationship between service and disability;
    * Awarded in fifths: from one-fifth (1/5), if service played only a minimal part in the cause or worsening of the disability, to five fifths (5/5) if the disability was incurred during, or was caused in its entirety by military service;
    * Entitlement may also be awarded for a disability which is a consequence of a pensioned service-related disability.
    * Guided by Entitlement Eligibility Guidelines, policy statements used in determining the relationship of your medical condition or disability to military service.


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## Occam

I'll correct an error I'd made previously.  Under the *New Charter*, the possible impairment ratings are: nil, 1%, 3%, 5% or 10%.  The amount depends on the severity and frequency of the tinnitus.

When I said the only amounts were 5% and 10%, I was thinking *Pension Act* - which I am under.

I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that the Pension Entitlement factor for Tinnitus is always 5/5; in my case, I had to prove that it was completely attributed to military service to get 5/5 entitlement.


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## Rifleman62

Rifleman62: 





> That said, I believe VAC approves, with documentation



Occam: 





> I had to prove that it was completely attributed to military service to get 5/5 entitlement.



Rifleman62: Occam, are we not singing from the same sheet of music???


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## Occam

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Occam, are we not singing from the same sheet of music???



Sorry, I took this:



			
				Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> That said, I believe VAC approves, with documentation, Tinnitus at 5/5 entitlement  , 5% and 10% disability.



as you suggesting that VAC doesn't grant an entitlement level for tinnitus at 1/5 through 4/5 (ie. 5/5 only).  If I misread that, you have my apologies.  To the best of my knowledge one can be given any entitlement from 1/5 through 5/5 for tinnitus.


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## Rifleman62

> To the best of my knowledge one can be given any entitlement from 1/5 through 5/5 for tinnitus.



I agree. Other than that, I do not know what logic VAC uses for anything.


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## BDTyre

Your guess is correct. I re-read the post later on and it was combined hearing loss/tinnitus.



			
				Occam said:
			
		

> If it was 15%, it wasn't just for tinnitus.  At the maximum impairment rating of 10%, the maximum QOL rating is 2%, resulting in a 12% disability rating.
> 
> Tinnitus - Table 9.3
> 
> QOL ratings - Table 2.2
> 
> Perhaps the one you read also had a hearing loss rating as well?


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## bwatch

I have tinnitus with some hearing loss. At first, I was only given the part of the pension for the hearing loss then one day I went to my bank and found a huge deposit from the DVA. Thinking it was a mistake, I called them and was told I was being back payed for my tinnitus and that my pension would go up accordingly. In my case, I had started going to a support group, there I was told I should apply. That gave me an idea. I sent a letter to the Chef Medical Officer at NDHQ who responded and said "yes, tinnitus is a problem in some trades, like Artillery and Infantry. As it was, I had been in the Infantry. So I applied and waited till I had a call and they said they are just waiting for my medical records. One day I got a package in the mail and in it was a pro rated cheque and a letter telling me how much I'd get and a card. They paid for hearing aids and I get new ones every 3 years and it covers battery's too.  The only thing they won't pay for is tinnitus retraining. Otherwise, they have been great with me.  Now, they do expect you to have your hearing re tested once a year but even with hearing aids, the T is no better, it only makes it louder.  Constant buzzing 24/7 can drive a person nuts.  Trust me, it's no fun having this when you have to ask people to repeat them self, cause the buzzing gets in the way. At times, it takes longer to fall asleep.  If anyone else on here has it, why don't we start our own support group for each other.


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## mike63

I also have Tinnitus and was approved for a lump sum payment about 3 months ago.  I had no problems with my claim (which came as a total surprise as I was ready for another fight with the VA).  I was sent to hearing centre in town and another appointment with a specialist at the hospital.  Paperwork went in without a CF98 but, because of my explaination about being on weapons ranges for years and having worn a headset for hours at a time for a few years (I was a SigOp), approval can very quickly.

I also have the constant ringing in my right ear which causes frequent headaches but, the hearing loss isn't to the point of having hearing aids (according to the specialist).

I do like your idea of a support group.

Mike


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## Occam

mike63 said:
			
		

> I also have the constant ringing in my right ear which causes frequent headaches but, the hearing loss isn't to the point of having hearing aids (according to the specialist).



In my case (yours may differ), the hearing aid (HA) is actually prescribed to treat my tinnitus.  Maskers are apparently not given out any more, as it has been found that the new HAs do a better job at dealing with the effects of tinnitus.  In my case, the range of speech frequencies are boosted above the perceived volume of the tinnitus, effectively masking it with the ambient sound (if there is any, that is).  I'm still serving, and when I got my HA a little over two years ago it was one of the best available.  I just had a periodic hearing check done, and the audiologist tells me that the model I have is obsolete already.  They actually have HAs now with integrated Bluetooth for your cellphone or whatever.  Really!  And they are likely within the spectrum of care for VAC.  If you haven't asked your audiologist about whether a HA can be useful in your case for treating your tinnitus, be sure to ask about it.  It's very common now.


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## jollyjacktar

Thanks for the tip Occam, I'm going to be getting another audiogram week after next.  I'll ask some questions about this sort of stuff.


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## Fishbone Jones

Occam said:
			
		

> In my case (yours may differ), the hearing aid (HA) is actually prescribed to treat my tinnitus.  Maskers are apparently not given out any more, as it has been found that the new HAs do a better job at dealing with the effects of tinnitus.  In my case, the range of speech frequencies are boosted above the perceived volume of the tinnitus, effectively masking it with the ambient sound (if there is any, that is).  I'm still serving, and when I got my HA a little over two years ago it was one of the best available.  I just had a periodic hearing check done, and the audiologist tells me that the model I have is obsolete already.  *They actually have HAs now with integrated Bluetooth for your cellphone or whatever*.  Really!  And they are likely within the spectrum of care for VAC.  If you haven't asked your audiologist about whether a HA can be useful in your case for treating your tinnitus, be sure to ask about it.  It's very common now.



Those are the ones I have. I've tried it. It works, but I find it easier and less cumbersome to set my phones to the hearing aid setting.


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## mike63

Occam said:
			
		

> In my case (yours may differ), the hearing aid (HA) is actually prescribed to treat my tinnitus.  Maskers are apparently not given out any more, as it has been found that the new HAs do a better job at dealing with the effects of tinnitus.  In my case, the range of speech frequencies are boosted above the perceived volume of the tinnitus, effectively masking it with the ambient sound (if there is any, that is).  I'm still serving, and when I got my HA a little over two years ago it was one of the best available.  I just had a periodic hearing check done, and the audiologist tells me that the model I have is obsolete already.  They actually have HAs now with integrated Bluetooth for your cellphone or whatever.  Really!  And they are likely within the spectrum of care for VAC.  If you haven't asked your audiologist about whether a HA can be useful in your case for treating your tinnitus, be sure to ask about it.  It's very common now.



Hmmm...well now I will have to check up on that.  I just remember my audiologist saying that from the test results, I didn't warrant the use of HAs yet.  You would have figured that he would of at least mentioned the possibility of that working.

I have a friend from the PPCLI that is still serving here in Kingston, he has 2 HAs.  It's pretty funny because when we did PT he didn't wear them so, we always had to yell at him.  Sometimes he wouldn't have them in yet when we got back to our units lines...still having to yell at him, still makes me laugh.


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## Stoker

I was diagnosed with Tinnitus several years ago from my exposure over the years to engine noise on the ship. Even though I have moderate hearing loss and have at times a hard time hearing it was determined that my hearing loss was not sufficient to having a HA.I can live with the Tinnitus however was told the military don't perscribe a masking device anymore.


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## Occam

That's right - they don't prescribe maskers anymore.

Normally, once a person makes a complaint of tinnitus, a "tinnitus assessment" is performed by an audiologist.  The assessment I did was quite lengthy, but it did conclusively prove that I had tinnitus and identified its perceived frequency and amplitude.  Once the tinnitus assessment was done, they tried me out with an audio CD which had pink noise tailored to match my tinnitus.  I would listen to that for 5-10 minutes several times per day.  Eventually it stopped working, and the HA was suggested at that point.  The HA worked like a charm.

Under the old Pension Act, a person could only get the 10% (or "severe") disability level if they required the use of a tinnitus masker.  Because the legislation never kept up with the technology, it became nearly impossible to get assessed at the 10% disability level because nobody was prescribing maskers anymore.  The BPA lawyer who represented me argued (successfully) that using current technology, the HA is performing as a masker.  VRAB sought out an expert opinion on the subject, and here's what was quoted in my decision:

_The Board was referred to a statement from Trevor Menchenton, Clinical Audiologist, dated 28 April 2010, which notes as follows:
. . . hearing aids (HAs) . . . . used to distract him from the tinnitus, they ARE serving as a tinnitus masker. A masker does not eliminate tinnitus, it just helps to distract the sufferer from its constant presence. HAs are the tinnitus maskers most often used today, dedicated maskers that do not assist with hearing are no longer widely used. ln fact, I am not even sure they continue to be produced in Canada it has been such a long time since I looked for one. HAs provide the best masking effect because they accomplish both goals at once, addressing the hearing difficulties and also distracting the user from his/her tinnitus. To be used effectively as maskers, they require a specific approach to amplification and we must introduce sound in an appropriate fashion, but any audiologist should be able to program them effectively to accomplish this. . . . 
. . . ln the majority of cases, we use carefully applied low frequency amplification to initiate a forward masking effect to cover up the typical high frequency tinnitus most people with noise-induced hearing loss suffer from. This is cautiously programmed and requires extensive discussion and coaching with the patient to handle its effect . . . ._

So if you haven't had a tinnitus assessment done, that's probably the first step in figuring out if a HA will do you any good...


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## Future Pensioner

While we are on the subject of tinnitus - does anyone suffer from/been pensioned for *both* tinnitus and vertigo and/or hearing loss?

Thanks in advance.


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## Occam

Future Pensioner said:
			
		

> While we are on the subject of tinnitus - does anyone suffer from/been pensioned for *both* tinnitus and vertigo and/or hearing loss?



Yes, under the Pension Act - I was initially awarded a 5% disability for tinnitus and a 2% disability for hearing loss.  The tinnitus disability was later increased to 10%.

Why do you ask?


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## Future Pensioner

Thanks for the reply Occam.  I should be more specific - I am referring to a pension for vertigo that may/may not be associated with either the tinnitus or the hearing loss.  Additionally I am interested in understanding if anyone has had vertigo tied to either one of the two other conditions.


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## Occam

Are you referring to a claim under the Pension Act, or the New Veterans Charter?

Under the Pension Act, vertigo is accounted for in the assessment of hearing loss if it is part and parcel of the hearing loss disability.  See 9.03 - Vertigo.  

The assessment under the New Veterans Charter is somewhat more complex.

Are you looking at trying to claim vertigo as a separately pensionable condition, or to claim it as a cause of hearing loss and not an effect?


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## ElevenBravo

I went to a private hearing clinic in Calgary, had my tinnitus confirmed.  The clinic filled out the paperwork and I received a lump sum payment in my account and a letter detailing it.  On my profile is more info.  I didn't have any prior history but I already received compesation for PTSD.

Good luck.


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## timbit1969

Tinnitus HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Recently I was awarded a VAC disability award, SDA injury for Bilateral Chrionic Tinnitus present day and night in both ears (no hearing loss).  I was prescribed devices (Zen hearing aids with fractals) and a pillow sleeper as masking devices.  Still serving so my request from my practioner went to CF health services of course.  Subsequently treatment was denied as it does not fall under the CF spectrum of care.  FAIR ENOUGH, treatment denial (official document) was then forwarded to veterans affairs for a treatment request and VAC refused to even enter it in their system.....The refusal for treatment was given verbally to my practionner, and VAC refuses to even look at my file for treatment.  My response the last 10 times I have contacted VAC was a very quick,  you are still serving, fight it out with the CF not our problem.

I have contacted the CF, submitted a grievance, contacted veterans affairs, no glory, presented at the local district office, contatced the Veterans affairs Ombudsman, and the resolution dept at Veterans affairs.  

So to date no treatment, the CF says no, and VAC refuses to process treatment authorization request because I am still serving.  Is there anyone who can possibly provide me with a means to deal with this........................ I am losing it and quickly


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## Occam

Just to clarify - the CF refused to pay for your hearing aids and pillow sleeper?


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## timbit1969

Yes thats correct!
Because there is no hearing loss they say that tinnitus treatment itself is not covered

sorry I hadnt realized it posted in two places....my apologies


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## Occam

In Aug 2008, my ENT and audiologist in Halifax recommended a hearing aid to serve as a masker for my tinnitus (they don't use true maskers anymore because they seldom work).  In Feb 2009, the ENT in Ottawa concurred and I was given a hearing aid to treat my tinnitus.  At the time, there was hearing loss, but not enough to need a hearing aid.  The hearing aid was prescribed solely for my tinnitus, and it was paid for and issued by the CF.  What does the Spectrum of Care policy actually say now?


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## Lightguns

You all mean there is a relationship between vertigo and hearing loss. I thought I was just getting old. I have been fighting the VAC battle over hearing loss in one ear and the crazy ringing since 1989. I received 3/5 for one ear in 89.


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## Occam

Lightguns said:
			
		

> You all mean there is a relationship between vertigo and hearing loss. I thought I was just getting old. I have been fighting the VAC battle over hearing loss in one ear and the crazy ringing since 1989. I received 3/5 for ear in 89.



There is, sometimes...but it's not a good relationship.  If you have vertigo, hearing loss and tinnitus, dollars to doughnuts they're going to try to pin it on Meniere's Disease, which is one of those things they diagnose by excluding everything else.  Meniere's isn't a pensionable condition, since it's not something caused by noise exposure and has more to do with how your ear is put together.


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## Nudibranch

Occam said:
			
		

> The hearing aid was prescribed solely for my tinnitus, and it was paid for and issued by the CF.  What does the Spectrum of Care policy actually say now?



Therapies covered under SoC undergo evidence-based reviews, especially new therapies using already-accepted equipment (as happened under hearing aids, which SoC covers, used for tinnitus rather than hearing loss; it can actually take the system a while to catch this and go "hey wait, should we be paying for this particular therapy?"). When there isn't sufficient evidence for their efficacy, therapies won't be approved (as with tinnitus maskers, massage, protein-rich plasma injections, etc). 
So at this time, tinnitus maskers aren't covered. Private practitioners will often prescribe them, as they will prescribe other non-covered therapies - SoC will still not cover these, but the member is more than free to pay their own way. I paid for my vision correction surgery, others (including still-serving VAC, going forward from 2013) pay for their massage.


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## Occam

Nudibranch said:
			
		

> Therapies covered under SoC undergo evidence-based reviews, especially new therapies using already-accepted equipment (as happened under hearing aids, which SoC covers, used for tinnitus rather than hearing loss; it can actually take the system a while to catch this and go "hey wait, should we be paying for this particular therapy?"). When there isn't sufficient evidence for their efficacy, therapies won't be approved (as with tinnitus maskers, massage, protein-rich plasma injections, etc).
> So at this time, tinnitus maskers aren't covered. Private practitioners will often prescribe them, as they will prescribe other non-covered therapies - SoC will still not cover these, but the member is more than free to pay their own way. I paid for my vision correction surgery, others (including still-serving VAC, going forward from 2013) pay for their massage.



Tinnitus maskers aren't generally prescribed anymore - using noise to cancel out another noise has turned out to be not as great an idea as once thought.  The common practice now (and for some time) has been to prescribe a hearing aid, which masks the tinnitus by amplifying the (desired) external sound range above the perceived level of the tinnitus.  That's the principle my own hearing aid is set up for, and it works quite well.  The CF is well aware of this well-established treatment method and as I mentioned before, they paid for my hearing aid in 2009 to treat my tinnitus with no questions asked.  VAC picked up the tab for my latest hearing aid, since I released in 2011.  I'm not sure if or why the current SoC has changed, as there haven't been any breakthroughs in the treatment of tinnitus, and hearing aids are still the standard treatment as opposed to maskers.


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## Jdhfx

Hello Everyone,

I am checking to see if anyone has been successful with a DVA claim for Tinnitus WITHOUT hearing loss. Ie less than 25 db? If so any info on what needs to be covered would be benificial. I'm asking as I had applied and was denied on first application and then again with the review and appeal board. The reason was no hearing loss of more then 25 db at 3000,4000 or 6000 frequency. Thanks in advance.


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## Stoker

Jdhfx said:
			
		

> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am checking to see if anyone has been successful with a DVA claim for Tinnitus WITHOUT hearing loss. Ie less than 25 db? If so any info on what needs to be covered would be beneficial. I'm asking as I had applied and was denied on first application and then again with the review and appeal board. The reason was no hearing loss of more then 25 db at 3000,4000 or 6000 frequency. Thanks in advance.



I was awarded 5% with some hearing loss, not sure the range though, although it wasn't enough to qualify me for a claim for the hearing.  I had it reevaluated and eventually won 10%.


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## George Wallace

Some reading for you:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/110225.0

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/policy/document/1068

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/after-injury/disability-benefits/benefits-determined/entitlement-eligibility-guidelines/tinnitus

....and thread merged.


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## Occam

I had a tinnitus claim approved long before they approved any hearing loss claim.  Did the audiologist perform a tinnitus assessment on you?  It's a couple of hour's worth of testing aimed at identifying the perceived frequency and amplitude of your tinnitus.  It would be key to having a tinnitus claim approved.


----------



## Jdhfx

Yes I had the tinnitus test done. They denied it because I didn't have hearing loss more then 25 db in the 2000-6000 frequency. I did have hearing loss in the 7000-8000 feq but they did not accept that. I also had the from signed that says I have tinnitus all day everyday and required a masker.
I thought that Tennitus could be claimed on its own without hearing loss? Has anyone experienced this and was successful? If so what documents were submitted?


----------



## Occam

That's ridiculous - your BPA lawyer should be all over that.  Tinnitus and hearing loss are completely separate conditions under both the old Table of Disabilities and the 2006 Table of Disabilities.  Tinnitus does not have to result in hearing loss to be awarded a disability rating - like I said, they awarded me a disability rating for tinnitus long before my hearing loss stabilized resulting in an additional rating for hearing loss.

You do have a BPA lawyer, right?


----------



## RobA

what's a bpa lawyer, and where do we get one?


----------



## mariomike

RobA said:
			
		

> what's a bpa lawyer, and where do we get one?



http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/organization/bureau-pensions-advocates


----------



## Occam

RobA said:
			
		

> what's a bpa lawyer, and where do we get one?



Oh no....who handled your appeal to VRAB?

There should have been instructions on your first denial letter telling you how to get in touch with BPA.  Or follow mariomike's link.

Call them Tuesday...


----------



## RobA

Occam said:
			
		

> Oh no....who handled your appeal to VRAB?
> 
> There should have been instructions on your first denial letter telling you how to get in touch with BPA.  Or follow mariomike's link.
> 
> Call them Tuesday...



Sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn't get a denial letter, my claim was approved. I do have another issue with VAC however, that I could have use of an advocate who know the system.

Thanks.


----------



## Occam

RobA said:
			
		

> Sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn't get a denial letter, my claim was approved. I do have another issue with VAC however, that I could have use of an advocate who know the system.
> 
> Thanks.



No,  that one's my fault...I'm on my phone and thought I was replying to Jdhfx.  

I'm assuming you've had no success with your issue by dealing with VAC.  There's no harm in calling BPA to see if they can help.  I've got nothing but good things to say about the folks at BPA.


----------



## Jdhfx

Bureau of Pension Advocates. It is free legal advise for DVA aplications 1-877-228-2250


----------



## Occam

More than just legal advice.  When you've been denied on your first application, BPA lawyers will represent you on appeal.  They have access to all the VAC case histories, and are your best shot at winning an appeal.


----------



## iltis1994

I HAD MINE APPROVED AT A BIG 3% PLUS 1% QOL.I STATED IN MY PAPERS THAT MY TINNITUS IS ALL THE TIME AND NEVER REALLY LETS UP.I GUESS THE WAY I ANSWERED THE TECHNICIAN'S QUESTIONS MADE IT SEEM AS THOUGH IT WASN'T SERIOUS.I WASN'T GIVEN ANY OF THE PAPERS FROM THE AUDIOLOGIST THOUGH TO SEE WHAT SHE STATED.I WENT BACK LAST WEEK AND SPOKE TO THE AUDIOLOGIST AND EXPLAINED TO HER WHAT WAS GOING ON AND SHE TESTED ME AGAIN AND PRESCRIBED HEARING AIDS TO ACT AS MASKERS.I WAS AWARDED TREATMENT BENIFITS IN MY ORIGINAL DECISION.HAS ANYONE RAN INTO THIS BEFORE AND WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME?I CLEARLY STATED I SUFFERED 24/7 IN MY RIGHT EAR AND I THOUGHT THEY GAVE THE VETERAN THE "BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT"?THEY DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO QUESTION THE DIFFERENCE IN OUR TWO STATED OPINIONS,THE QUESTIONS THEY ASK ARE VERY MISLEADING AND DON'T ALWAYS PAINT AN ACCURATE PICTURE OF WHAT WE ACTUALLY SUFFER...I.E.ANSWER ONE QUESTION "WRONG" AND IT MAKES IT SEEM LIKE YOU ARE HARDLY BOTHERED WITH THE TINNITUS.I BELIEVE THEY OWE ME 10% PLUS QUALITY OF LIFE...REALLY HATE TO BEG FOR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED 21 YEARS AGO AND WAS 100% THE FAULT OF A MILITARY TRAINING EXERCISE WHICH THEY AGREED WITH 100% ALSO...HATE TO BE MADE TO FEEL LIKE A BUM.


----------



## George Wallace

iltis1994


Perhaps you have tinnitus, but do you really need to SHOUT! in CAPITAL letters?


----------



## iltis1994

shhhh....sorry...never even noticed....maybe I am CYBERDEAF....LOL...LMFAO.


----------



## Occam

If you have continuous tinnitus, and have been prescribed a hearing aid to act as a masker, then you are absolutely supposed to be rated at 10% for tinnitus.  Call BPA and initiate a Departmental Review.


----------



## iltis1994

hey Occam,my audiologist sent the receipts in to VAC.do you know if I do have to call a BPA lawyer etc?or will VAC the connection with the h/automaker order and adjust my settlement accordingly?any advice would be greatly appreciated.it also took from last September 9Th/2014 until July 22/2015 and a few "ass kicking" emails to get my case going...really disturbed by the whole process.


----------



## Occam

I can say that in my own case, VAC did not proactively adjust anything as far as the disability rate went.  It took a Departmental Review at the minimum, raised by BPA.  There's no harm at all in calling BPA, there are no limits on the number of DRs you can have.


----------



## iltis1994

Occam,so if I don't contact BPA then I shouldn't expect to see any action on the
Increased award from 3% to the 10 I am entitled. WOW...what a system...we fight our own countrymen for what we are obviously entitled to...and they set on their asses and play with veterans lives and futures... Is it really 2015 and is this the canada I signed and swore to protect and serve?


----------



## Occam

I'm not sure of the inner workings at VAC, to be honest - all I can tell you is that I had to do several DRs between 2006 and 2010 to get where I am.  It could be that the people paying out the incoming treatment bills aren't tasked with the job of triggering a review of your disability level.  Things may have changed since then, but the call to BPA is a free one, and they can advise you better than anyone else.


----------



## iltis1994

thanks for all the advice Occam.i sent a private message to BPA on my vac account and i'll wait and see what I get for a response from that,if no go than i'll make the call.i'll be glad when the world markets finally collapse and I can go back to growing a garden and raising some cattle.


----------



## loadiecc150

I'm in the process of fighting my denial for tinnitus and hearing loss. I was checked out by an audiologist for hearing loss but she sent me to my GP for the tinnitus. After reading this thread it seems I need tk get an audiologist to do the tinnitus paperwork.  I have constant ringing in both ears, which makes me have to turn the volume up on the TV to hear it. I worked on the ramp for 15 of my 20 years and the last 5 were flying on the Airbus with no hearing protection at all. 

I called the BPA here in Edmonton and was told they will start right away on getting the info they need. I asked her about not having tinnitus when I retired in 2009, I was told tinnitus doesnt come on overnight less you have ruptured an eardrum or something similar. When I told her my trade she laughed and said Traffic tech was one of the trades with the worst hearing in the Military.


Lets see what happens.


----------



## jollyjacktar

From today's Halifax Chronicle Herald.  http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1332460-hearing-damage-most-common-disability-in-canadian-forces


----------



## bwatch

I have the new ones with Bluetooth. They are nice when driving, you can talk while driving and don't have to hold the phone to your ear but in my case, I find they still make my T louder and now I'm starting to hear a low hum, more like an electric motor and the sound of a chirping bird. It's a pain in the ass I tell you.


----------



## AirDet

I just got 11% for tinnitus and 5% for hearing loss. I only had 3 hearing test over 2 years to confirm. The last one was the one done by Helix sealed the deal.


----------



## Gronk

Short experience: I once helped a RCN vet who served on a ship for about 4 yrs in the late fifties w/ his claim for tinnitus. Anyone who knows many seniors can tell you that tinnitus is very very common in the older generation, vet or not. Wasn't very confident that his claim would be successful, but he got a good percentage on his first try. Was very pleased for him.


----------



## Wookilar

bwatch said:
			
		

> I have the new ones with Bluetooth. They are nice when driving, you can talk while driving and don't have to hold the phone to your ear but in my case, I find they still make my T louder and now I'm starting to hear a low hum, more like an electric motor and the sound of a chirping bird. It's a pain in the *** I tell you.



Blackwatch, do you think the low freq hum is from the maskers themselves (themself? That doesn't look right ..anyway) or are they not quite the right frequency for you? I'm waiting for my appt with the audiologist to try some out. The bluetooth would be handy as I do a lot of driving.

Thanks.


----------



## Rifleman62

You can also apply for the device that attaches to your TV or Tuner so that your Bluetooth hearing aids will get the audio directly. 

If your Shaw/Bell/whatever cable/satellite receiver is Bluetooth enabled, you can pair your hearing aids. I have DISH which is enabled.


----------



## meni0n

Anyone have issues being assessed by the CF specialty clinic? I've had tinnitus for a while now and decided to get hearing tested after I was sitting in front of my supervisor who was talking at a lower tone and all I could see was his lips moving but couldn't hear a thing. This has been going on for a while with my hearing and I had to ask multiple people to repeat themselves because I can't hear them very well. I went to the clinic and did the hearing testing,but the test they did wasn't exactly simulate in the work setting where there is some background noise and I seem to have issues hearing. The CF test said I've had no hearing loss. Should I look into doing a hearing test at a private clinic since the CF clinic did say they don't test all the spectrum.


----------



## Occam

meni0n said:
			
		

> Anyone have issues being assessed by the CF specialty clinic? I've had tinnitus for a while now and decided to get hearing tested after I was sitting in front of my supervisor who was talking at a lower tone and all I could see was his lips moving but couldn't hear a thing. This has been going on for a while with my hearing and I had to ask multiple people to repeat themselves because I can't hear them very well. I went to the clinic and did the hearing testing,but the test they did wasn't exactly simulate in the work setting where there is some background noise and I seem to have issues hearing. The CF test said I've had no hearing loss. Should I look into doing a hearing test at a private clinic since the CF clinic did say they don't test all the spectrum.



A standard hearing test will not detect anything but hearing loss.  You need to ask them to refer you to an audiologist for a *tinnitus assessment*, which is much different than a simple hearing test.  I have tinnitus and only mild hearing loss when measured by the standard hearing test.  You have to go back and insist on a tinnitus assessment.


----------



## Szczep

meni0n,  go to your mil doc and ask for referal.  If he/she gives you a hard time, then ask that they put a 'refusal' note in your file.
Worked for me, though I had to use it only couple of times with mil doctors.  Most of them were good.


----------



## Old Sweat

After having been in denial for a number of years I had a hearing test in September and submitted a claim for both tinnitus and hearing loss a few weeks later. My hearing loss was low to moderate in both ears while the tinnitus was in my left ear only. The folks at the private clinic assured me my claim would be approved as I am a gunner, but I was dubious.

On our return from Arizona at the end of March I found a large envelope from VAC. Before opening it, I told me wife that my claim was no doubt refused and it will be interesting to see what comes next. The first thing I saw when I opened the envelop was the statement that my claim was approved and I would be receiving a cash award of a bit over $30K. (on reflection this was for both hearing loss and tinnitus.) A letter with my VAC card and other paperwork followed, but they wanted another hearing test and a prescription for hearing aids from our family doctor before they would approve my hearing aids. All that is submitted now, so it is just a matter of a few weeks wait now.


----------



## lennoj

I didn't have any prior docs for tinnitus or hearing loss. I served with the arty as well, but my favourable decision was based off of my location in relation to the air field when I was deployed. Go figure. Submitted the paperwork in October '15 and in late February '16 decision paperwork was received. 

I have faith in the system, but they are a gov't department and the gov't does move at the speed of smell. If any of you have issues with VAC, there's a lot of great advice in this thread and others. Be sure to talk to your local advocate when you are completing your paperwork.


----------



## Old Sweat

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> After having been in denial for a number of years I had a hearing test in September and submitted a claim for both tinnitus and hearing loss a few weeks later. My hearing loss was low to moderate in both ears while the tinnitus was in my left ear only. The folks at the private clinic assured me my claim would be approved as I am a gunner, but I was dubious.
> 
> On our return from Arizona at the end of March I found a large envelope from VAC. Before opening it, I told me wife that my claim was no doubt refused and it will be interesting to see what comes next. The first thing I saw when I opened the envelop was the statement that my claim was approved and I would be receiving a cash award of a bit over $30K. (on reflection this was for both hearing loss and tinnitus.) A letter with my VAC card and other paperwork followed, but they wanted another hearing test and a prescription for hearing aids from our family doctor before they would approve my hearing aids. All that is submitted now, so it is just a matter of a few weeks wait now.



I drooped the requested documents off at the clinic yesterday morning just after 0800. The clinic staff told me it would take two to four weeks for VAC to process it, but this afternoon they phoned to say it was all approved. So I am being fitted at 1300 on 19 April. Can't complain about that!


----------



## meni0n

Should I initiate a claim now? I didn't know proximity to the airfield could be used as a factor. When I was deployed, I was staying in the first row of tents right next to the runway.


----------



## dapaterson

On the minus side, it's one less excuse for not hearing your wife when she wants you to do something...


----------



## Occam

dapaterson said:
			
		

> On the minus side, it's one less excuse for not hearing your wife when she wants you to do something...



Ah, but then you have to contend with the screaming voice after she's tried to get your attention three times...


----------



## lennoj

meni0n said:
			
		

> Should I initiate a claim now? I didn't know proximity to the airfield could be used as a factor. When I was deployed, I was staying in the first row of tents right next to the runway.



The decision of whether or not to initiate your claim is entirely up to you. It won't hurt since you can appeal or pursue other avenues but without a diagnosis you could be in for a headache. 

As per your situation, request to see a specialist. You will need to establish a connection between your service and condition for which you are claiming. When you complete the QOL questionnaire do not be afraid to use adjectives and verbs. Also keep in mind that you should write it in a sense of how your condition affects you at it's worst, not how it is affecting you at that moment. I'm not a wiz with VAC but I believe the disability award is calculated at increments starting at 5%, 10%, 15% and so on (Service Related + QOL = Percentage). 

If you need any guidance try the SMEs here or visit your local legion and speak with their advocate/liaison officer. 

side track: were you at Jabber?

Cheers,


----------



## loadiecc150

meni0n said:
			
		

> Should I initiate a claim now? I didn't know proximity to the airfield could be used as a factor. When I was deployed, I was staying in the first row of tents right next to the runway.



My claim was denied, which I am appealing and I worked on the ramp and flew for over 20 years. It's really a crap shoot with VAC!


----------



## meni0n

Went to see the CF specialist. He acknowledged that I have tinnitus but wasn't interested in really hearing anything I had to say. All he kept repeating is that I had no hearing loss and that I keep H1. I wasn't there to change my medical category but that's what it seemed worried him the most.


----------



## Occam

Did you ask for a referral to an audiologist for a tinnitus assessment, meni0n?


----------



## meni0n

I was told that was the specialist and he did assess me having tinnitus. Is there anything else I should be doing if I was assessed having it?


----------



## Occam

Was this doctor an ENT?  If that's the case, then he's probably not the one to be doing a tinnitus assessment.  When I was in, the ENT at the base hospital referred me to an audiologist for a tinnitus assessment.  It's a specific battery of tests that would never normally be done as part of a normal hearing test - http://journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/Fulltext/2001/11000/What_the_practitioner_should_know_about_tinnitus.9.aspx

The tinnitus assessment takes over an hour to complete, and is much more in depth than a simple audiogram.  You'd be listening to speech/sounds while noise is also being generated into your ear, and other more complicated testing.  The report generated would describe the perceived frequency and amplitude of the tinnitus, and also describe if anything aids in reducing its effect.  This is critical information if a masker or hearing aid was ever going to be prescribed.  I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling that you had an actual tinnitus assessment, from the way you're describing it.


----------



## Stoker

Occam said:
			
		

> Was this doctor an ENT?  If that's the case, then he's probably not the one to be doing a tinnitus assessment.  When I was in, the ENT at the base hospital referred me to an audiologist for a tinnitus assessment.  It's a specific battery of tests that would never normally be done as part of a normal hearing test - http://journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/Fulltext/2001/11000/What_the_practitioner_should_know_about_tinnitus.9.aspx
> 
> The tinnitus assessment takes over an hour to complete, and is much more in depth than a simple audiogram.  You'd be listening to speech/sounds while noise is also being generated into your ear, and other more complicated testing.  The report generated would describe the perceived frequency and amplitude of the tinnitus, and also describe if anything aids in reducing its effect.  This is critical information if a masker or hearing aid was ever going to be prescribed.  I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling that you had an actual tinnitus assessment, from the way you're describing it.




I applied for hearing loss and tinnitus in my right ear due to the trade i'm in. While I did have some hearing loss it was on the cusp of having a award for it. I did get a 10 or 12% settlement for the tinnitus and i'm sure I never had a assessment and that was at Stad. Fast forward 5 years and my recent hearing is now is down another level to the limit for my trade and they gave me a hearing aid. Guess I should apply again for the hearing loss.


----------



## Occam

Mine was at Stad too - tinnitus assessment was done at Audiology Associates in 2007-ish, prescribed my hearing aid in 2008 in time for a posting to Ottawa.


----------



## Stoker

Occam said:
			
		

> Mine was at Stad too - tinnitus assessment was done at Audiology Associates in 2007-ish, prescribed my hearing aid in 2008 in time for a posting to Ottawa.



Weird, never had to go outside. It appears I never had an assessment either. Based my claim on the hearing loss and the interview I had with a doctor over the phone with VAC.


----------



## jollyjacktar

I was tested at Stad in 2010, was given an award for I got a small pay out in 2011.  Just recently was retested here in Ottawa, I am now on the cusp of needing a hearing aid.  Will see what comes of it all, just starting initial talks with the ENT.  I suppose I should see what I should to with VAC about the new downgraded hearing levels.


----------



## Stoker

can you have separate awards for each ear?


----------



## jollyjacktar

I don't know, but my award was for both ears as I have it in both.


----------



## Occam

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> can you have separate awards for each ear?



Tinnitus is awarded without regard to whether it's one ear, the other, or both.

Hearing loss is awarded by using dB loss figures from both ears to determine an overall disability rating for hearing loss.


----------



## meni0n

Well I put in a claim about two weeks ago and it is already at stage 2 while a different claim have been sitting at stage 1 for about 3 months now. Let's see how this goes.


----------



## Propat90

I apologize in advance if I posted this on the wrong fourm/thread. Ive done a search and surfed through numerous pages relating to this subject that hasnt been updated in a year or two.

Ive submitted a Tinnitus claim back in March, and after reading many old posts, havent seen much information on the percentage people have gotten. Or even had to send their claim back for a review. 

As im waiting the more im becoming worried of having to take another number and waiting as im already on Step 2 of the whole process. I went to the MIR, got my Part 1 medical done again and have dropped down a level on my left ear. After that I saw a MO and told me I have bilateral tinnitus. From there submitted my VAC application a few weeks after of deciding if I wanted to claim it, and I did. Now, there was much stating on VAC application that really relates to tinnitus, other then the section where you fill out how else your diagnosis effects your life. Too quickly sum it up I stated that I periodically have a buzzing sound in my ears throughout the day on a regular basis, and is active every night after a few minutes of trying to sleep consistently. 

The more im thinking about this and how long this process is taking I dont want recieve a letter stating bad news. Just want to wash my hands of this and be over this. 

Now some of you guys maybe skeptical that im just a guy trying to play system which im not. I know of people that have and it truly disgusts me. Ive been in for over 10 years Reg Force infantry (Pro Patria) and have been deployed to Afghanistan. 

Now my question is anyone who is, or has been in the same boat as I am, would this information be enough? Im at the point in which I want to request to go see a specialist off base and get a civilian professional too back this up even more. Just want this to be successful in one shot, thanks!


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

I waited 9 months to be told that my tinnitus didn't happen in the Army. Even with testing done and everything submitted. Apparently it developed during school afterwards, in the loud part of the library. Best of luck to you. There are ways to fight the outcome if it is one you don't like. I hear the legion is pretty good at helping as well.


----------



## Sapper44

The only question I could see is “ how is the tinnitus service related?” If you can prove that and you’ve had the tinnitus diagnosis longer than  six months you should get a favourable decision.


----------



## Propat90

Well I didnt notice till it till a level 4.5 live fire range in 2010, and I got in early 2008. Which was all documented in my statement but never went to the MIR. Just thought everybody had it, then had a M203 HE detonate 50m from me. Still never went to the MIR but was only recently that its really bothering my sleep. Which is why I went to the MIR to see if there was anything I could do, which I appearently didnt know there wasnt and was informed about VAC.


----------



## PuckChaser

If the MIR is noticing hearing loss, you're probably set for your claim to be approved. I had to see an ENT a few years back for an unrelated issue, and he made sure I got a proper hearing test done (probably didn't hurt his bottom line, though) so that I would have a really good baseline hearing test as opposed to the simple one in the booth that the MIR does. His thought was we are constantly exposed to loud noise in the CAF, so if there was ever a question I can refer to those test levels to prove I've got hearing problems (thankfully nothing yet). The process will be long, but you should be fine.


----------



## rasputin

Just wondering, while I was exposed to guns and planes, I don't know that I could pinpoint one specific event on that front.  The only thing I can specifically pinpoint in terms of injury is something I have never seen listed by anyone as a cause (and I don't know if it would cause long term damage or not)?  Essentially, when I did the hyperbaric chamber and they dropped us almost instantly from X feet to Y feet (can't remember the values) it "popped" my ears and I was not allowed to finish the chamber part of the course.  Hurt for a few days.  Wasn't like your normal feeling you would get if they just don't open.  Was actually fairly painful.  Have had intermittent tinnitus since.  I also struggle to hear if say there is a fan or something going in a room...hear the voices but can't make out what they are saying while others can.  Or as an example a group of us were snowshoeing this weekend and while the rest can carry out a conversation, I hear the voices but can't make out the words (while everyone else can).  Anyhow, was just wondering if anyone knew whether the hyperbaric chamber qualifies as a specific incident?  It isn't like I know that is the cause but I know that was a specific injury.  Being around the planes and guns was more of a routine thing where I can't remember any specific issue.


----------



## Occam

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/cavrab/doc/2013/2013canlii104729/2013canlii104729.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQATdGlubml0dXMgaHlwZXJiYXJpYwAAAAAB&resultIndex=1


----------



## 211RadOp

rasputin said:
			
		

> Just wondering, while I was exposed to guns and planes, I don't know that I could pinpoint one specific event on that front.  The only thing I can specifically pinpoint in terms of injury is something I have never seen listed by anyone as a cause (and I don't know if it would cause long term damage or not)?  Essentially, when I did the hyperbaric chamber and they dropped us almost instantly from X feet to Y feet (can't remember the values) it "popped" my ears and I was not allowed to finish the chamber part of the course.  Hurt for a few days.  Wasn't like your normal feeling you would get if they just don't open.  Was actually fairly painful.  Have had intermittent tinnitus since.  I also struggle to hear if say there is a fan or something going in a room...hear the voices but can't make out what they are saying while others can.  Or as an example a group of us were snowshoeing this weekend and while the rest can carry out a conversation, I hear the voices but can't make out the words (while everyone else can).  Anyhow, was just wondering if anyone knew whether the hyperbaric chamber qualifies as a specific incident?  It isn't like I know that is the cause but I know that was a specific injury.  Being around the planes and guns was more of a routine thing where I can't remember any specific issue.



When I filed mine years ago (2010/11 I think), I couldn't pinpoint a specific incident.  I listed everything I had been exposed to over the years; generators, weapons, explosions, HF white noise, etc.


----------



## lapinpunki

hey, I have had continuous Tinnitus since Nov 2017. I got it from sleeping below the 57 mm gun on the ship (Navy). 
I put in my claim 1 week ago and it still isnt on my ''track your application'' page on my VAC account. How long until it showed up for you guys?

Also, I was wondering if the only way for them to give hearing aids for tinnitus is if you also have hearing loss? The doc at the base hospital sent me to do a hearing test to see if I have hearing loss or not. Turns out I don't. But the Tinnitus is still annoying as all hell. 
From what I hear online, they can prescribe special hearing aids that can help with this? 

Another question too lol, is a regular hearing test what they do to determine how bad your tinnitus is? or is there a special tinnitus exam they do?


----------



## BDTyre

You can get tinnitus maskers which are actually a little smaller than hearing aids and will basically cancel out that high pitched whine. 

The way it was explained to me is that tinnitus will show as hearing loss at specific frequencies; or at least hearing loss at specific frequencies tends to be associated with tinnitus and that the pitch of the tone you continuously hear correlates to the frequencies you've suffered the loss in. I'm not a med tech or doctor so my explanation might not be the best.

For my tinnitus, they noted hearing loss in a certain range and sent me off to an audiologist for more in depth testing. Of course, tinnitus is also confirmed by you coming forward and singing "I'm hearing a high pitched whine in my ear."



			
				lapinpunki said:
			
		

> hey, I have had continuous Tinnitus since Nov 2017. I got it from sleeping below the 57 mm gun on the ship (Navy).
> I put in my claim 1 week ago and it still isnt on my ''track your application'' page on my VAC account. How long until it showed up for you guys?
> 
> Also, I was wondering if the only way for them to give hearing aids for tinnitus is if you also have hearing loss? The doc at the base hospital sent me to do a hearing test to see if I have hearing loss or not. Turns out I don't. But the Tinnitus is still annoying as all hell.
> From what I hear online, they can prescribe special hearing aids that can help with this?
> 
> Another question too lol, is a regular hearing test what they do to determine how bad your tinnitus is? or is there a special tinnitus exam they do?


----------



## lapinpunki

CanadianTire said:
			
		

> You can get tinnitus maskers which are actually a little smaller than hearing aids and will basically cancel out that high pitched whine.
> 
> The way it was explained to me is that tinnitus will show as hearing loss at specific frequencies; or at least hearing loss at specific frequencies tends to be associated with tinnitus and that the pitch of the tone you continuously hear correlates to the frequencies you've suffered the loss in. I'm not a med tech or doctor so my explanation might not be the best.
> 
> For my tinnitus, they noted hearing loss in a certain range and sent me off to an audiologist for more in depth testing. Of course, tinnitus is also confirmed by you coming forward and singing "I'm hearing a high pitched whine in my ear."




hmmm, I wonder if they would let me try the masking hearing aids even if I don't have hearing loss with my tinnitus. The audiologist just told me to use a white noise machine. That's good and all, but I cant bring a white noise machine everywhere I go lol. 

also, I'm just wondering how do I know if I am a 5 or a 10 if I don't try and see if they help or not?


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## Occam

lapinpunki said:
			
		

> hey, I have had continuous Tinnitus since Nov 2017. I got it from sleeping below the 57 mm gun on the ship (Navy).
> I put in my claim 1 week ago and it still isnt on my ''track your application'' page on my VAC account. How long until it showed up for you guys?
> 
> Also, I was wondering if the only way for them to give hearing aids for tinnitus is if you also have hearing loss? The doc at the base hospital sent me to do a hearing test to see if I have hearing loss or not. Turns out I don't. But the Tinnitus is still annoying as all hell.
> From what I hear online, they can prescribe special hearing aids that can help with this?
> 
> Another question too lol, is a regular hearing test what they do to determine how bad your tinnitus is? or is there a special tinnitus exam they do?



What you're looking for is called a tinnitus assessment.  It's a very specific list of tests used to identify the amplitude and frequency of your perceived tinnitus.  For me, it took about two hours to conduct.

When I did my testing, they created a CD for me to listen to with pink noise on it.  White noise has sound from across the entire frequency spectrum.  Pink noise has specific frequencies, and it can help "null" your tinnitus for a period of time after listening to the CD.  Eventually you'll reach a point where it no longer works.  When that happens, the audiologist will usually recommend a hearing aid (or at least mine did).

I don't understand why everyone is rushing about to get prescribed a masker.  The old school of thought was that maskers (which introduce noise) provide relief through the day.  The new school of thought is that introducing noise to eliminate noise is just crazy talk (don't go into destructive interference, that's something different entirely).  My hearing aid acts like a masker in that it boosts the level of the ambient sound in the room above the level of my tinnitus, thus masking it.  It works quite well.  I don't notice tinnitus at night very much without the HA in.

My hearing aid (acting like a masker) was sufficient for VAC to grant the 10% rating for tinnitus.  You don't need to have hearing loss to have a tinnitus disability rating.  They're completely separate pensioned conditions.


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## BDTyre

Absolutely. I filed for both and was approved for the maximum for tinnitus but reject altogether for hearing loss (I'd have to check the reason why). I never went with a masker or a hearing aid. I notice the tinnitus, but it doesn't keep me awake at night or distract me. When the ambient nose is loud enough, I don't even notice it.




			
				Occam said:
			
		

> I don't understand why everyone is rushing about to get prescribed a masker.  The old school of thought was that maskers (which introduce noise) provide relief through the day.  The new school of thought is that introducing noise to eliminate noise is just crazy talk (don't go into destructive interference, that's something different entirely).  My hearing aid acts like a masker in that it boosts the level of the ambient sound in the room above the level of my tinnitus, thus masking it.  It works quite well.  I don't notice tinnitus at night very much without the HA in.
> 
> My hearing aid (acting like a masker) was sufficient for VAC to grant the 10% rating for tinnitus.  You don't need to have hearing loss to have a tinnitus disability rating.  They're completely separate pensioned conditions.


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## blacktriangle

That's interesting. I was told that in order get to the maximum for Tinnitus, you had to get prescribed a masker. Then I was told that they don't prescribe maskers anymore?  ???


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## kev994

I run a fan when I’m sleeping, works well and most hotels have them.


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## BDTyre

standingdown said:
			
		

> That's interesting. I was told that in order get to the maximum for Tinnitus, you had to get prescribed a masker. Then I was told that they don't prescribe maskers anymore?  ???



When I was going through the process/received my award in 2011 I was told if I wanted one, just to get the MIR to prescribe one and VAC will pay. But they also fully attributed my tinnitus to service (I was able to pinpoint to specific incidents). Maybe they've changed things?


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## slayer/raptor

According to VAC website level 5 for tinnitus is “Continuous tinnitus, present all day and all night, affecting one or both ears, but does not require use of a masking device” while level 10 (max level) states “Continuous tinnitus, present all day and all night, every day, affecting one or both ears, and requires a masking device and/or prescribed medication”

Does it have to be an official masking device? Or does a constant fan or white noise maker while sleeping count as a masking device?

I just got diagnosed last week by the MD and audiologist as having tinnitus but no hearing loss. I’m nervous that only one of the two won’t be enough for VAC. If i read their documents well I would consider myself a level 5 tinnitus, but I always need a fan at night to mask out the tinnitus in order to sleep. 




			
				CanadianTire said:
			
		

> Absolutely. I filed for both and was approved for the maximum for tinnitus but reject altogether for hearing loss (I'd have to check the reason why). I never went with a masker or a hearing aid. I notice the tinnitus, but it doesn't keep me awake at night or distract me. When the ambient nose is loud enough, I don't even notice it.


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## 211RadOp

I think, and this is just me, that the key phrase is "requires a masking device". I was told by the Tinnitus Clinic at Ottawa General that I needed one and that is what they put in my file, but I opted not to get one.  I was not happy with the Ottawa General as it seemed that is all she wanted to do, was sell items.


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## lapinpunki

So, would a white noise machine be considered a masking device?


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## Jarnhamar

Ive got pretty wicked Tinnitus with some hearing loss. I've had civilian an ENT specialist recommend hearing aids twice to attempt to counter the tinnitus but the CAF won't cover them unless it's for hearing loss specifically.

Army docs tell me to download an app for my cell phone and deal with it  rly:


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## lapinpunki

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Ive got pretty wicked Tinnitus with some hearing loss. I've had civilian an ENT specialist recommend hearing aids twice to attempt to counter the tinnitus but the CAF won't cover them unless it's for hearing loss specifically.
> 
> Army docs tell me to download an app for my cell phone and deal with it  rly:



That’s shitty! It makes a big difference when putting in your claim. 18k vs 37k is not a joke. 
I find this process very dumb... It would still be worth it for you to just buy the heaing aids yourself and you would be able to get the benefit amount you truly deserve instead of settling for less because the military coverage isn’t as it should. 

My question is still: could I need hearing aids for tinnitus even if I have no hearing loss 🤔 how do I know if I never try them? It’s so annoying lol 🙈


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## Sprinting Thistle

Has anyone experienced something called "hidden hearing loss"?  Trouble hearing speech with background noise. 

Two separate audiologists have indicated hearing loss but VAC won't acknowledge as the levels measured in the audiologists report don't meet the VAC standard / threshold.  Therefore VAC feels bad about the hearing loss but won't attribute it to military service despite military docs reports supporting hearing loss.  

Fighting it with BPA.


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## lapinpunki

How long were you guys in step 2 for? The waiting time on the website doesn’t come in effect until step 3 and I’ve been stuck in step 2 for weeks now...


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## kratz

I used MyVAC to submit everything and Blue Cross paid for the Tinnitus / Hearing tests.

From Step 1 to a DA in my bank, my situation took 12 months.


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## bdcasey916

I've been at step 2 for about 11 weeks now.  The call center basically tells me to take a number and get in line.  Typical VAC


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## Occam

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Ive got pretty wicked Tinnitus with some hearing loss. I've had civilian an ENT specialist recommend hearing aids twice to attempt to counter the tinnitus but the CAF won't cover them unless it's for hearing loss specifically.
> 
> Army docs tell me to download an app for my cell phone and deal with it  rly:



That's not right, unless the CF Spectrum of Care changed since I got out in 2011.  I was covered for hearing aids specifically for my tinnitus while I was still serving.  ENT prescribed them, audiologist fitted them up, off I went.


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## Jarnhamar

Did it work?


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## lapinpunki

I put my claim in for Tinnitus feb 25 2019. I just got informed that my claim is in step 3 now. The estimated wait time is 24 weeks. I’m just curious as to when this 24 weeks starts because of the wording in the "Track my application" section: 

When I click on step 3: "Your claim is at the decision making level. All your supporting documentation was received on February 25, 2019. Although we strive to provide a decision within 16 weeks, we are currently experiencing a higher than normal volume of applications" 

Feb 25th is the exact day I placed my claim. The way it’s worded means the 24 week wait starts then? I have been in step 3 as of end aug 2019.


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## meni0n

Timer starts once it moves to step 3. My claim took a year to complete last time.


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## lapinpunki

Just received the “completed” notice! When I go in my VAC account, it says I am receiving 115$ for pain and suffering compensation. I thought they did payments in lump sums?


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## bdcasey916

Based on the timelines you have put up, mine should be close to being complete soon as well. I went to Step 3 about 10 days after yours did. Glad you got it favourable. Your default payment is PSC monthly, you have to call VAC and request the lump sum forms. Based on what I see on some Facebook groups, it will take a little bit of time.


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## slayer/raptor

So as I mentioned on another thread application was completed and I was able to see the results, based on the monthly amount I am assuming it is assessed at 5%. I don't understand how come it is not 10% since I even have a prescription for a masking device and I sent the prescription to VAC. Whats the process to get a reevaluation done? Has anyone done it and had success by going from 5 to 10%?


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## meni0n

You'll need to appeal the decision.


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## lapinpunki

I got 10 and I only had a prescription for anti depressants that apparently would work. I have not tried long enough to see if it really helps because I don’t want to become dependant. But that was enough for me to get 10. I would ask for them to look over it again.


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## FdAmbCpl

Has anyone been approved for tinnitus/hearing loss without the tinnitus assessment?  My letter from the audiologist says I suffer from tinnitus and that I have mild hearing loss in the 3000-4000 range.  Is this enough for approval or should I request the tinnitus assessment?


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## Jarnhamar

FdAmbCpl said:


> Has anyone been approved for tinnitus/hearing loss without the tinnitus assessment?  My letter from the audiologist says I suffer from tinnitus and that I have mild hearing loss in the 3000-4000 range.  Is this enough for approval or should I request the tinnitus assessment?


You need to submit a tinnitus assessment separately from hearing loss. It's possible to get approved for tinnitus but not approved for hearing loss.


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## kev994

They approved my tinnitus based off a slight hearing loss on my first audiogram after being in Afghanistan, apparently the particular frequency I lost is known to cause tinnitus. Still fighting for hearing loss, they don’t like that it’s only on one side.


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