# April 2017 Top Up Payments Incorrect



## dunlop303 (8 Nov 2018)

Everyone please go back to your current benefits and payment history, and add up total disability award and other benefits "additional lump sum".

I don't know why I didn't raise the alarm earlier, but I just spoke to VAC about my math vs their math and I and they just realized I was shorted 32,735.63 on the April 1, 2017 top up payment.

Being rated at 100% over multiple separate decisions since 2008, I had 282,108.40 as previous disability awards and 45,155.97 under additional payments. At the time I was so focused on the CIB I didn't read the language carefully enough and thought my total - 327,264.37 was not 360,000.00 because It was indexed differently over the years. After all the news this week about their horrid accounting I back checked my own profile called in with my finding and knew I had hit something sensitive when I was placed on hold for 18 minutes. It’s being put into a report for the pay office, and they asked me to call back in a week to verify payment release.



Simply put make sure your paid rating ie, 98% disabled - 100% paid out equals the proper share of 360,000.

for example, my total received to date is 327,264.37 is %90.09 not %100.



Deep breaths...……………. MF's!


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## PuckChaser (8 Nov 2018)

I'm surprised they're changing it,  because that's how they saved money on it. They only topped you up to the max value in the award year dollars,  not 2017 dollars. Sleight of hand to pay us less money.


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## dunlop303 (8 Nov 2018)

Definitely challenge it of your in the same boat because I was thinking the exact same way untill I did the calcs and re-read the language. I almost didn't bother calling in, I've asked the question via message before and got no actual answer as usual. But the analyst confirmed any percentage you are rated between Jan 1 2008 - end of the 2016 rates are supposed to be applied directly to 360k, %10 = 36k ect.


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## Teager (8 Nov 2018)

Can you point me to the language your referring too?

This is how VAC calculated the top up.



> Essentially, the one-time lump sum additional payment is the difference between the adjusted amount(s) from the year you were paid and the Disability Award(s) and/or Death Benefit amount(s) you already received.
> 
> To calculate the amount of the one-time lump sum additional payment, VAC takes the new maximum Disability Award and/or Death Benefit amount ($360,000)—that came into effect on April 1, 2017—and adjusts downward by the Consumer Price Index for each year back to 2006. Veterans Affairs Canada then calculates the amount you would have been paid (based on the new adjusted maximum for that year) and subtracts the amount of Disability Award and/or Death Benefit already paid.
> 
> Each payment differs depending on when the Disability Award(s) was paid and whether it was one Disability Award or multiple Disability Awards.



http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/help/faq/disability-award-increase#a04


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## RobA (13 Nov 2018)

Yeah definitely keep us posted. This wasn't unknown (at least to me) if you go back on the main top up thread, you'll see that was my main point. the closer to 2017 a vet was injured, the closer they'd get to recieving the ACTUAL number of $360,000. I complained pretty bitterly about how the formula subtracted for CoL b/c it seemed unfair. Yes, the CoL increase meant $1 in 2008 (when I was hurt) is worth more the $1 in 2017, but by the same token,  the 2017 top up was an explicit admission by VAC that they "shortchanged us" and reimbursed us. But my argument was, ok well sure, you're paying me NOW what you wopuld've paid me THEN, but that's 10 years time. I could've invested that sum and made 5%+/year  in the interim and had far more. Seemed like they should've just topped us all to the nominal number of $360,000.

With all that said....the reason why I KNEW they were doing it like that is because that's how the formula was pretty explicitly written into the law. Are we sure they're going to top us up? Cause I've only been paid $310,000 in total despite being rated at 100%.


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## RobA (13 Nov 2018)

Teager said:
			
		

> Can you point me to the language your referring too?
> 
> This is how VAC calculated the top up.
> 
> http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/help/faq/disability-award-increase#a04



Yeah, exactly. That's a shitty way to do it (see my post above) but that's pretty explicitly the way they MEANT to do it. We can quibble with the formula, but it's not like they made a mistake. That's the way it's written in the act. I'm sckeptical they'd change that, unless the new top up in April is making them change their policy. Which would kind of be bad news, cause it would imply that the debate we're having on the main PFL thread (about if someone @ 100% is going to get around $50k or $360k) is more along the $50 k line


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## upandatom (19 Nov 2018)

I called in and noticed the difference after seeing this post, 
The member on the other side of the phone was damn clueless about it. 

Absolutely lost, I mean, he had no clue what I was talking about. At ALL. 

Mindblowing, or the fact it was 430 and he just didnt give a rats ass, which doesnt surprise me. 

So the math is correct, If you were paid up to 100% at ANY time during 2017, Prior to April 1st or after, (even a payment after still has to match you up to your percentage of the total max payout)

ie- mine is 110%, according to them I have been paid out 100%, when in truth I have been paid out 98%, ($355 161.09) from the max of $360000 is a difference of $4838.91. He couldn't wrap his head around it and said no one from that project still worked there......


So here I go with the call and call and call until I get an answer.


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## RobA (20 Nov 2018)

Well, keep us posted. I've only been paid about $310,000 in total even though I'm at 100%.

Again, I keep reading and re reading their language:

"VAC takes the new maximum Disability Award and/or Death Benefit amount ($360,000)—that came into effect on April 1, 2017—and adjusts downward by the Consumer Price Index for each year back to 2006"

And I can't see any other way to read it. They SUBTRACT the yearly cost of living increases (i.e. CPI) going back every year. So the only ppl who will have truly gotten $360,000 are those who get their claims for 2017 or 2018. Everyone else will have the yearly CPI subtracted FROM that $360,000, so the further back you go, the less you're going to get. Because I was pensioned in 2007, they subtracted about 10 years of CPI from the $360,000 total (which totalled around 15% when you add them all up, hence, $310,000). I don't see them as correcting this "mistake" because it's not really a mistake, it's exactly how they said they were going to do it.

It's a shitty way to do it, but it's how they SAID they were going to do it. It's not like VAC messed up the formula.

All that said, if they actually pay ppl out on this, let us know cause I'd be in line for a decent sum.


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## TCM621 (20 Nov 2018)

I did the math on mine and I am out about 600 dollars. Not a huge amount but something doesn't add up (literally).


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## BeyondTheNow (20 Nov 2018)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> I did the math on mine and I am out about 600 dollars. Not a huge amount but something doesn't add up (literally).



I think "not a huge amount" must be open to interpretation 

Hopefully things get balanced soon for you.


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## TCM621 (22 Nov 2018)

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> I think "not a huge amount" must be open to interpretation
> 
> Hopefully things get balanced soon for you.



600 bucks is 600 bucks but it isn't 40 grand like some people.


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## BeyondTheNow (22 Nov 2018)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> 600 bucks is 600 bucks but it isn't 40 grand like some people.



Yup. ‘Just meant that for some though, $600 is still a fair amount. It’s relative.


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## Dhillongs (22 Nov 2018)

Well good post, I called VA and asked as I am missing around 9k, the guy pretty much said well you know how sometimes you get rounded up depending on where your disability lies so 11% is really 10% and 13 is 15 so on and so forth, so I said well I am at 75% and I have received like 72.5% round away to 75% my good man and so he was like oh ya you're right, I wonder what happened. So he's put it in for review, let's see what happens, will keep you guys posted.


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## RobA (23 Nov 2018)

Dhillongs said:
			
		

> Well good post, I called VA and asked as I am missing around 9k, the guy pretty much said well you know how sometimes you get rounded up depending on where your disability lies so 11% is really 10% and 13 is 15 so on and so forth, so I said well I am at 75% and I have received like 72.5% round away to 75% my good man and so he was like oh ya you're right, I wonder what happened. So he's put it in for review, let's see what happens, will keep you guys posted.



Is that missing $9000 AFTER you subtract the yearly CPI numbers?

My guess is the guys that work the phone dont know or understand the specific formulas. Its not as simple as taking $360,000 and finding out out what 75% (or whatever youre rating is).

The only ppl who will be able to use their % of $360,000 are those that were pensioned in 2017 or later. For example, if youre at 100%, youre going ti have to subtract about $3000-$4000 per year FROM 2017. So if you got rated at 100% in 2016, youre only going to get around $356,000. 2015, youll max out around $352,000 and so on and so forth.

If you were pensioned in 2017 or 2018of course, youve got a strong case.


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## upandatom (23 Nov 2018)

They are sending me the worksheet. So I would be able to share. I had a reassess, that was awarded a few weeks before that they think is screwing it up. But not screwing its up.


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## RobA (23 Nov 2018)

upandatom said:
			
		

> They are sending me the worksheet. So I would be able to share. I had a reassess, that was awarded a few weeks before that they think is screwing it up. But not screwing its up.



Yeah, please share, that'd be great. Don't get me wron,g I'm skeptical, but it would be great news. I'm at 100% but only paid out about $310,000 in total because I was pensioned in 2007.


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