# Input on being a paratrooper



## Andy (12 Oct 2002)

I enjoy a lot of media quoted "extreme sports" such as snowboarding, paintball, skateboarding, bungee jumping ect.... One thing ive really wanted to try is skydiving, but i havent gotten around to it yet. Seeing as how im applying to the army in the next week, i was wondering if i should consider this an option seeing as how i love these sports and would probably love sky diving too? Please, if you can, tell me upsides and downsides to this career, memories and things you would like to forget ect....


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## Recce41 (12 Oct 2002)

Well
 You just can‘t go in as a Paratrooper. You must go though Basic training then Battle School. Then you may be posted to a Inf Btl. From there they ask what courses you would like. If your lucky you‘ll get the jump course.


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## fortuncookie5084 (12 Oct 2002)

Skydiving and military parachuting are very different.  IN skydiving one jumps from quite high altitudes and then deploys a large rectangular (a "square" chute as its called in parachute parlance) parachute that is highly controllable and very slow.  Skydivers don‘t jump one after the other, either.  They‘re usually far apart unless they are experts doing relative work. Squares almost always have a soft landing.

With military jumping one jumps never any higher than 2000 feet in training (its as low as 250 feet for some armies---like the British---in war time). The chute you will use is a 7 metre round that is not very controllable, even if you have a steerable chute (such as Canada does not but almost everyone else has) like the MC1-1C or GQ Aeroconical.  The aircraft can be moving fast (extremely fast in the case of the large American jet transports) and jumps are almost always done at night.  The descent is fast, too.  We‘re looking at 17-22 feet per second.  You‘ll never be in the air longer than 45 seconds.  On yes...and if you can carry it with you (man-pack it as they say in the army) you can jump it.  Exceptions aside, you‘ll jump it all in front of your legs and then lower it via a lowering line.  Now that‘s not skydiving.


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## Recce41 (12 Oct 2002)

Cookie
We do have a semisteerable its the CT2. There is a new chute coming out. For us freefallers you use a CT3 or a non standard chute ie: civie. You read like a book. 
Aircraft travel at around 184 kts. I have over 400 static and 100+ FREEFALL and don‘t really care what chute I jump just to jump is good for me. So you a jumper or one of those types that wear the wings(I hope not white) and are not. Because you know its chargeable to wear them.


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## Zoomie (12 Oct 2002)

Recce, White Wings were for CAR jumpers were they not.  Would it be correct to say that those wings are no longer being awarded, just the red ones now?


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## Recce41 (12 Oct 2002)

No anyone with para Coy with 3 RCR,PPCLI,R22R, CPC and the place I work at, any OP jump postion, and if you are attached to the 82,101, Brit Paras,etc. They the CAR were not the only ones that received them. Anyone then at CABC, Recce Sqn RCD and before 87 the 8CH, 2 CER with the jump troop,E Bat, or anyone in a OP Jump postion. 
 When I got my white in 84, you had to have 2 Op jumps (exercise) the Airborne Indoc course, and be with the Airborne battle group for 2 yrs. Then you received your Maroon Beret( not us Armour types), your white leaf,and your God Bless you Airborne Coin. Now anyone puts up the white, I have met soldiers that have not even been close to a plane wearing them. That pisses me off.


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## Zoomie (12 Oct 2002)

I must agree with you on that issue 100% Recce.  I‘ve never met anyone wearing the wrong wings, but if I did, I am sure that I would react the same way as you do.


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## Andy (12 Oct 2002)

So would this be considerd a rewarding and fun area to go into? Or should i look elsewhere?


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## Sharpey (13 Oct 2002)

On the topic of jump wings...I don‘t understand why these guys entering the Reserves from Cadets are allowed to wear their jump wings that they acquired in Cadets. I have never been in Cadets and never been on the jump course, but I think I can say with confidence that the Cadet course is not even comparable to the Jump Course. So why be allowed? A Cadet can‘t keep his rank when they switch over, why their wings?


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## Zoomie (13 Oct 2002)

"Apparently" it is the same course, or so they tell me.  I saw them in Pet one summer, they had RCR instructors, so who knows?


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## fortuncookie5084 (13 Oct 2002)

The cadets have to do the pre para as well, so their jump course is five weeks, all unpaid, while ours is three weeks paid.  Aside from that the only jump courses taught in Canada are done through the Canadian Parachute Centre Trenton.  If you have done it in the last ten years (cadet, res, or reg) it is *the* course.


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## fortuncookie5084 (13 Oct 2002)

Recce, I had not heard about our semi steerable chute.  I‘m glad to see Canada is actually acquiring some decent chutes.  I don‘t wear any wings on my uniform because I didn‘t do the course in Canada. Do people really try tacking them on without earning them?   Anyway, the course is simply  not available in the reserves due to budget (or so I‘m told).  I don‘t believe it but that‘s neither here nor there because since infantry is closed I‘m looking elsewhere for a career.  If you‘re starting to think that I‘m heading someplace where they have a large and well developed airborne/airmobile force, you‘re 100% right.


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## combat_medic (13 Oct 2002)

There have been lots of opportunities recently for reservists to get basic para. In the last 2 years alone, my unit has sent 5-6 guys. There‘s also a MO unit located in Toronto (The Queen‘s Own Rifles) that still has a jump company, and in which you can still earn and wear white wings. yes, it‘s harder to get on the course as a reservist, but the opportunities are still available.


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## Sharpey (13 Oct 2002)

I know people who have just completed the jump course, a Cadet can do that? I‘m not judging all Cadets here so don‘t get me wrong. But that‘s a tough course. I know there is no way I could even attempt that course yet, if at all.


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## Andy (13 Oct 2002)

So my big question is, do any of you like it? is it something to pursue? if you had the choice to take a differnt course would you or would you become a paratrooper again? what are the ups and downs to this job?


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## asdf (13 Oct 2002)

Isn‘t anyone going to actually answer Army Andrew‘s question? 

Being a paratrooper is an amazing job, it‘s exciting, and the comradeship is unlike anything else you‘re likely to find. It is also very hard work, and very hard on your body (I don‘t know many jumpers who don‘t have some sort of long term injury from jumping). 

Keep in mind that being a paratrooper is an attitude (and I don‘t mean the ATTITUDE that shows itself in a bar fight). The demise of the Cdn AB Regt may have eliminated Canada‘s Airborne capability, but there is nothing saying that a soldier can‘t still become a Paratrooper. Jumping is one of the smallest parts of being a paratrooper. Just become the best, most professional soldier you can, and the rest will follow.....my time as a paratrooper is one of my most cherised memories.


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## Gordon Angus Mackinlay (13 Oct 2002)

"So my big question is, do any of you like it"

No one in their right mind likes military parachuting, it is a different to sports parachuting as a nun is to a prostitute.

Military parachuting is a means of travelling a long distance with a fair degree of speed, and putting soldiers accurately onto the ground, with the minimum of injury and the maximum of suprise.

To this end the tactical aircraft (C130 etc) travel in at 500 feet or less.  Modern tactical military parachutes enable the soldier to do a descent from 300 feet or lower.  In the British Army/Royal Marines this is the norm, as is the German ‘regular‘ parachute Brigade (the 31st, has no conscripts).

Tactical flying to the DZ results in one thing - air sickness, the resultant vomitus makes even the most hardened who suffers not, to vomit.  It is the norm to see the floor of an aircraft awash with vomit.  All everyone wants to do, is get out of the bloody aircraft with your container, with no thought of what is actually on the ground - it has to be better than the aircraft.

No one enjoys military parachuting, and with night descents in bad weather, even the most stupid person is afraid.

The American style of "John Wayne" parachute descents from 800-1500 feet, with a high altitude aircraft approach, are not really tactical parachute operations.  In the 82nd AIrborne Division, tactical military descents in training are a rare event.  this being a major problem, when their bn‘s jumped over Panama - "Death Ground - Todays American Infantry in Battle", giving a good description, and discussing the need for realistic peacetime parachute training.

The Rhodesian Army was the only one to have ever really developed the use of parachuting as a military tool.  Due to both their shortage of high capacity helicopters with a good range, and the need to move long distances, resulted in the use of Dakota‘s carrying 15-20 men of the Commando‘s of The Rhodesian LIght Infantry (and later the 2nd Battalion, The Rhodesian African Rifles, and certain elements of the Rhodesia Regiment) into contacts.  On a number of occassions individual Troops (platoons) of the RLI Cdo‘s did three combat descents in one day into "hot" DZ‘s, with their soldiers actually packing their parachutes (British MXs) in the field!!!

Yours,
G/.


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## logistik (14 Oct 2002)

Nobody can answer this question for you really.


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## Futur_Para (14 Oct 2002)

asdf what you said is the resion why i want to be a paratrooper. Crist My heart got all worm reading your post....................................  :flame:


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## Andy (14 Oct 2002)

thank you kindly for your description Mr Mackinly. Although i have to claim this now, and will probably sit down and wish i had listend to your description of the vomitus later, but i have been raised in a medical family, been on countless amounts of ride alongs with paramedics and in hospital ER trips, the smell, look, feel, and auroa of other people vomiting does not bother me at all, and i am not one to really get air sick easily. Im done my im a man and im invincible talk now.   :evil:  Anybody else have any input?


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## Gordon Angus Mackinlay (14 Oct 2002)

Andrew,

having just looked at the syntax in your last message (plus the appalling spelling) it would appear that you are either intellectually impaired or are a child of 11 or 12 years.

In either case you should not be corresponding on such matters as these as they are totally beyond your comprehension.

Yours,
G.A.MACKINLAY


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## asdf (14 Oct 2002)

I have to say that I completely agree with Jock. If you want to have FUN parachuting, go learn to skydive (it‘s worth it). On the other hand, being a Paratrooper (as opposed to the act of parachuting) IS fun (at least it was for me as a younger soldier). Hard work? Sure. Painfull? Sure. Personally and professionally satisfying? That too.

A friend of mine who recently finished his Combat DIver course told me: "well, I‘m convinced that the military can make anything suck: parchuting, mountaineering (the MOI course) and now SCUBA diving" That doesn‘t mean that he didn‘t want to do all of those things, or that they weren‘t satisfying, but FUN? 

Mind you, it all looks like fun in retrospect, doesn‘t it?


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## Jarnhamar (14 Oct 2002)

On the negitive side of things i‘ve heard many stories of young paratroopers growing older plagued with ruined backs hips legs and knees and having the army all but shrug their shoulders and look the other way. (no CF-98? pfft you had those injuries before you joined the army, scram).
If your "lucky" you‘ll get reckognized and looked after by military doctors. No offense to medical officers but the amount of cases where an MO has operated on the wrong knee or fiddled with the wrong disc in your back is just unbelieveable. 

Parachuting is an awesome rush, specially for someone afraid of heights but as far as army jumping goes i say jump at your own risk.

Someone mentioned you can jump at 300 feet? I thought the canadian limit was 800 or 1000 feet?


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## Andy (15 Oct 2002)

just to let you know, im not 11 or 12, im 19. English is not my specialty, nor am i anal enough to go back over every word i typed to check for errors or grammar misteaks. I appreciate your input on paratrooping, however i do ask that you treat me with a little more respect. It says in my profile my age, if you really needed to know.


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## Doug VT (15 Oct 2002)

Yeah Gord, lighten up on the guy.  He‘s just a little excited about the whole idea of being "Airborne".  

I rather do enjoy military parachuting.  I have never been nervous, right from jump #1.  Also been lucky enough never to get hurt although I‘ve seen some pretty painful "accidents".  I‘ve jumped really heavy rucks, radios, and the usual assortment of non-standard loads and the only thing that ever really bothered me was how much the harness digs into my shoulders.  That‘s why I can‘t wait to get out of the plane.  It‘s a great feeling when the chute opens and the weight shifts!

As for getting sick, that‘s what the barf bags are for.  Been lucky enough not to get sick yet either.  It really depends on the state that you are in and the way the pilot is flying.  My worst one was two weeks ago on a BTAT in Trenton.  It was for a tactical loadmasters‘ course.  Winds were too high so it was a stop-drop. We did about an hour of contour flying and were at the stand-by twice.  After seatbelts were back on we did some more contour flying and a bunch of touch and go‘s.  One of the students filled three bags.  Some of our guys were on the edge but held it in.  I had a headache for about 4 hours after that one, everyone was a little screwed up.  
Some guys puke on every jump, or hate to jump period.  But because they want the maroon beret so bad, they do it.

It‘s true that the jumping is a very small part about being a Paratrooper, it‘s so much more.  The real stuff starts on the DZ....


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## Andy (15 Oct 2002)

thank you kindly for your input doug


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## Doug VT (15 Oct 2002)

Also about the "Cadet" thing, the course couldn‘t be made easier if they tried.  Of course they should keep their wings, it‘s a national qualification.  You‘re just whining because you don‘t have your wings.  Grow up.  What they teach at the school is how to rig your kit, don your equipment, safely exit the aircraft and make it to the ground without injuring yourself or anyone else.  There are no tactical lessons taught at the school, for basic para.  The Parachute Company will teach you the rest if you find yourself there.
I‘ve known a lot of guys who did their course in Cadets and they usually ended up being one of the guys that you would want to be fighting beside.  In fact, the "Cadet" course, (if you can call it that, since the only difference is that it is made up entirely of cadet students---all the inst are CPC) is more often more difficult then our course because of the 3 weeks of work-up.  And the cadets have a better pass rate because (usually) they are a select few from across all of Canada and are physically able to succeed.

Bottom line...
ONE COURSE--ONE STANDARD.


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## Jarnhamar (15 Oct 2002)

Doug, i was on the DZ in trenton two weeks ago as a part of the DZ control party. If im not mistaken a handful of people over the 2 weeks or so got hurt but i sure had a blast watching the jumpers, i‘ve never seen that before. Now unfortinuatly theres no more jumpers, just jeeps and trailers. We had one trailers chute completly malfunction, the trailer had a pretty rough landing from 1000 feet heh


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## Doug VT (15 Oct 2002)

Yeah, I‘ve seen you around.  Are you on class B at the CPC?


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## Sharpey (16 Oct 2002)

"You‘re just whining because you don‘t have your wings. Grow up" That was cute... I don‘t recall whining about not having my wings. I don‘t want my wings. My trades keep me on the ground thank you. I prefer to stay seated on a plane, not jump out of them. If I wanted them I would have put my name down for the course when it was being offered this summer. As mentioned previously by me, this was nothing against Cadets, it was a simple freaking question! So forget whatever I said and let‘s get on with the thread...


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## Jarnhamar (16 Oct 2002)

Yes class B for another 2 weeks.  I‘m in cadpat where my cohorts are in the olive drab. Working at CPC is a great tasking but it gets boring pretty fast especially commuting back and forth from kingston every day.


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## Doug VT (16 Oct 2002)

Your lucky that‘s all I said. I had a PI sitting beside me when I typed that and he thought I was too nice. He‘s taught on the Cadet course and practically has every course that is taught at the CPC. Heaven forbid that a Cadet could do a course that is actually worth something.


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## Jarnhamar (17 Oct 2002)

I don‘t know a great deal about cadets but have you seen or heard of the budget they get?
I know a guy who was acting as a mountian climbing instructor for them and he told whomever that he needed some cash to buy a few items for the course and the cadet leader pretty much gave him a blank cheque to get "whatever he thought was required"  That couse had all top line equipment. What to do with the climbing gear afterwars my friend asked. "Make it disappear" so his unit got quite a few new toys.  Wether soldiers like the cadets and or their organization or not, the higher ups seem to LOVE them and its obvious by the amount of coin they get to spend.


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## Sharpey (17 Oct 2002)

Geez, mabye we should start puttin in Req‘s to the Cadet Corps for hand-me-down equipment     I wonder if any of them have NVG‘s hmmmm....


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## Zoomie (17 Oct 2002)

The ONLY support that the Cadet‘s get directly from the forces is in the way of uniforms, vehicles and tranining space.  All monetary support comes from the Cadet League of Canada, which has no connection with the CF or the budget at DND.


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## Guzman (29 Nov 2002)

hey,i have a few questions about the para troopers and the para coys.anyone with info,jumper or not thank u in advance.

1, what happens when u complete jump school? is there always room in a para coy,or do u just return to ur unit...

2,if u return to your reg. unit,do u ever get to jump or go on ex‘s with other para-troopers or para coys?

3,do para coys have a more difficult daily routine?

4,does jump school and serving in a para-coy compare to serving in the 75th ranger regiment as far as "hard-core" training and high standers to stay in?

5,once in,how often do they jump on training?

again,thanks for all the info.im sure ill have more to add to this soon,till then thank you and goodbye.

p.s. if any para-troopers read this feel free to share ur thoughts and exp‘s on the topic    specialy jumping for the first time   !


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## Jarnhamar (30 Nov 2002)

1. Your a qualified parachutest. You go back to your regular unit. If your in a unit with a jump company (a la 3rcr) i think you have to have your jump course for a year or somethign like that upon which at the end, if you ask to goto para coy, they review your uer or per (whatever) basically see how good of a soldier tyou are/if they want ya or not.

2. Im sure they have small unit exchanges but probably only if your in a para coy.  When they have a jump week-end whoever has their course can usually go out (providing theres room).

3. I‘d say more relaxed from what i saw. The leaders trusted the troops more and knew whatever had to be done would get done. 

4. Considering the over all fitness level of the CF (standards) as well as budget and quality of equipment goes, i‘d say no.

5. To stay active or whatever the word is (and keep their jump allowence i think), jumpers have to jump atleast once every 3 months.


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## para (1 Dec 2002)

He‘s got the basic info but very basic.
Going to the Para Coy is like a promotion to a young soldier. The soldier has to prove that he is physically prepared to assume the role of a "PARATROOPER"
we have a more relaxed attitude due to the fact we have to trust each other with our lives " under canopy" and also the fact we get senior soldiers not a bunch of new guys, so it is expected that when you get to the company that you should know the basics.


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## Erborn (1 Dec 2002)

If you want a real challenge. Why not appy to be a Para Rigger .
A Retired Rigger
I will be sure always


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