# Military Swim Test - When, Where, and How- Merged



## DEagle

Well this is kinda emberesing...i am in good shape and i wana join recruits but i dont know how to swim...actually my biggest fear is water...last year i jumped of bridge with my friends but i had life jacket on....i just wana know whut distance am i suposed to swim and is it really necessary for me to know how to swim really good?
thanks


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## Pikache

There is a swim test which you have to do.

It consists of jumping off a 5m diving board with life jacket on, then swim to the end. About 50m.

Second part is jumping in the water from the end of the pool, tread water for two minutes, then swim to the other end.

I didn‘t swam for like 8 years and had trouble. Luckily I was able to use flipper board thingy.   

My advice is to take some swimming lessons.

I hate swimming.


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## Bert

I remember being about 12 yers old and not knowing how to swim.  I stuck out with the little kids in the baby end of the beach in 3 feet of water max.  I took swimming lessons during a summer but could not get over the fear of jumping into the water or not having my feet on the 
bottom.  In another sense, I was a great swimmer in three feet of water.  

During the same summer, a friend of mine bugged the crap out of me and forced me in ridicule to swim 100 feet out to a raft in the river.  I‘d say the depth would be about 15 feet between the beach and the raft.

If I could swim in 3 feet of water why not 15?  Nice to say yet it was something that scared the crap out of me at the time.

I gathered my courage and followed him out to the raft in spite of my fear.  And I did it.  Swam back to shore.

During that summer, swimming opened up a new experience for me.  I started distance crawls and diving down to about 12 feet.  I‘d put on a pair of goggles and check out the rock formations, vegetation, and all the other gross stuff at the bottom of that part of the river.  Well, somebody said there was gold down there.  It was also the same summer I noticed girls had a$$  but thats another story.

Swimming lessons will sure help if you don‘t know how to swim.  But if you kinda do know how to swim, then its just the fear you have to conquer, not necessarily the mechanics of swimming.  A ballon will float in 3 feet of water or in the middle of the ocean.


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## ZeeL4J8c2

I want to join but i cant swim. I guess i can always learn but how important is it? Is their anyways around it


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## Tyrnagog

Yes you have to swim during basic.

According to the website:

"During Basic Training, you must also meet the military swim standard. This test involves jumping from a 3 meter board wearing a life jacket, then swimming 50 meters. You must also somersault into the water without a life jacket, tread water for two minutes, then swim 20 meters. If you cannot swim now, you are advised to take a basic swimming course before proceeding
to training."


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## klumanth

As noted, it is strongly advised that you take swimming lessons before BT.  However, you can still pass BT without succesfully completing the swim test.  Of course, depending on your course staff, you may catch some flak for not being able to do it.


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## Zoomie

Take note, this is the standard for recruit courses run out of St-Jean (ie Regular Force).  In the present PRes BMQ, there is no requirement for a swim test.  It is an optional EO that may be included if time permits.


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## OLD SCHOOL

how about stripping down to shorts in -30 c to cross a river with full combat load during your pathfinder course. Bet you could swim fast


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## Fader

Aww the swim test; the most memorable moment of actual training off basic;  One guy "supposidly" didn‘t know how to swim, so halfway through his test, he "supposidly" started going under... meaning the hot blonde life guard had to jump in, drag the guy to the side, then take off her wet, white T-shirt and dry off in front of us... a truly classic moment in military training, as it gained that fellow the respect and admiration of the entire course.


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## PTE Gruending

I never had a swimtest on my PRES BMQ. Although my unit did go to the pool this year and do the test as well as some other stuff. (Prolly some of the most fun I had training the whole year, we were allowed to dive from the high boards as much as we wanted.) Also learned how to make a 2-man boat out of a ruck and bivy-bag, and do some water crossing.


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## Arty

As a part of BMQ, one is supposed to be able to dive from 10m board.  I have never dived into a swimming pool from that height.  I have some fear.  How deep I will go?  how much I have to control my breath? Is it going to hurt if I enter water at a wrong angle?  

Has anyone has similar experience?  How did you overcome your fear?  I am thinking about taking some diving lesson so that my initial fear is gone.....
BTW...I do not have height fobia and I know how to swim...


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## Cycophant

If you have a large swimming facility anywhere near by that offers a similiar experience (a 10m diving board), it would obviously be more than worthwhile to go visit.

I suppose I‘m lucky - we have a fairly good swimming facility here, built for the Canada Summer Games last year.  There‘s various heights of boards, 10m being one of the smaller ones.  Though obviously the experience varies from person to person, if you can swim and aren‘t terribly afraid of a little height, you‘ll be fine.  It‘s not all that bad at all, and even if you land wrong, it‘ll only sting for a few minutes


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## GrahamD

10m  is as high as the diving platforms go.  There isn‘t any olympic regulation platforms higher than that.  The towers where you see multiple diving boards and platforms are actually, 1m, 3m, 5m, and 10m.
  Yes if you hit the water wrong from 10m it will hurt extremely badly, so don‘t go trying it on your own.  When I was young, there was a fatality at one of the local pools in Victoria (the Crystal pool) when a young induvidual screwed up diving from that height and ended up belly-flopping.

  I haven‘t heard anywhere about diving from a 10m platform being part of basic training.  I heard you had to "jump" into the water from a certain height, and have to swim 20 meters.  And also that you have to do a somersault into the water (I belive from 3m).  If you belly-flop or land on your back from 3m, its going to sting pretty good, but it‘s unlikely that you would ever sustain serious injury.

Anyway you may want to look at those swimming requirements agin, I‘m pretty sure there will be no diving from 10m.


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## GrahamD

Ok here I just checked on the official site:



> Swimming - During Basic Training, you must also meet the military swim standard. This test involves jumping from a 3 metre board wearing a life jacket, then swimming 50 metres. You must also somersault into the water without a life jacket, tread water for two minutes, then swim 20 metres. If you cannot swim now, you are advised to take a basic swimming course before proceeding on training


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## Cycophant

I have a strange feeling there was a mixup between Imperial and Metric measurements, here.  3m is fairly close to 10 feet (9.84 feet), so that very well could explain the problem.  

That‘s the problem I fell into above.  I was thinking of feet, not meters.  You‘re right though - 10 meters is _awfully_ high.  Not something I could see them doing in Basic.  Espescially to the poor souls who may not know how to swim well.

Thanks for the clarification, Graham.


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## danco

When I did the high diving board you got to use a life jacket. You didn‘t really dive, just step off and fall into the water feet first.


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## mic911

Yeah the diving board is nothing to be afraid of.  You just step off it with your life jacket on.  You go under water for a second and then the jacket pulls you back up to the surface.  I‘m a horrible swimmer and still did fine.  You doin‘t even HAVE to pass the swim test in basic, so you shouldn‘t feel pressured.  If you fail, they‘ll put you down as a non-swimmer and then you just take swim lessons after basic when you get to your unit.


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## dalredane

although you do NOT have to dive, you only jump......and with that...you don‘t go under far...maybe 2-3 feet or so for a couple of seconds with a lifejacket, or even without one...it is not a high distance.

Learning how to dive might be something you want to learn.  Practice in a deep pool, not some friends backyard pool or local swimming hole where a head injury might be lurking below the surface....

Start on a small board and work your way up.  Clasp your hands together and straighten your arms above your head....when you jump...point your hands and your head to where you want to go and the body will follow.  It‘s really easy once you‘ve done it a few times.

Once you are good, you can adjust the entry to do a shallow or deeper dive.  

Having your hands enter the water before your head breaks the water tension and you don‘t really feel anything.....if you went head first...you would get an incredible headache and/or knocked out if it was quite a high dive....like 10m.  

I will vouch for that Crystal Pool story in Victoria....I heard about it too....bellyflop off the "tower" ....had to drain the pool. 

I wondered if that was really a story reported in the local papers or whether it was a Victoria urban legend??


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## tabernac

1. Don't go to your local pool and ask a life guard "teach me to swim"
2. Go to your local pool and APPLY for swimming lessons. Your community YMCA should offer adult classes.
3. Practice makes perfect.


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## Bert

This is something to talk to your CFRC recruiter about.  CF policies change from time to time and its better to get it from the authority.

During the second week of BMQ (at least for reg force), the recruits go for a fitness assessment.  Its alot like the application process fitness 
test, shuttle run, sit-ups, push-ups but with a swimming evalutation.  To pass the assessment, the recruit must successfully perform at least the
minimum requirements of the test (#of push-ups, # of sit-ups, VO2 calculation per age category, and tread water, make your way accross
the pool, and a feet first dive with life jacket on).

In my platoon, there were a number of recruits that either did not know how to swim or could swim very poorly.  They "failed" the first
fitness test and were directed to take a re-test in week seven.  Of those recruits, a few passed the re-test but some still could not
pass the swim test.  They were marked as "non-swimmers" and they'll get instruction at the training or gaining unit later.  So the swim 
evaluation was not a BMQ/course pass or fail.

No matter what MOC or what element you go into, you'll have to know how to swim.  PT is mandatory and you'll find yourself in a pool,
a lake, an ocean at some point and the skills needed for swimming are important.  If you got the time, its in your best interest to learn
at least the basics of swimming before or after BMQ, treading water, a simple crawl, and loose a fear of the water.


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## Soon to be Medic

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> I'm sure that space_sldr would rather take the time to learn, then be slightly embarrassed because of his swimming proficiency/ability.(If I was you)



  That is how  we learn.


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## space_sldr

The thing is, I am determined to be able to swim after the whole thing is over.   :evil: It's my one of my BIG goals. I just want to know if i'll get enough time during the whole thing to practice. Does anyone know how often we'll get trained to swim?


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## Bert

space_sldr

If you can, go to the pool before BMQ and get a basic understanding of swimming.  In BMQ, they don't spend much time on swimming
instruction.  The instructors won't let you drown by any means but they will challenge your skills in the pool.

Keebs

If you check out the video link on the CF recruiting site, they'll show sequences of people in the pool; a roll off from the edge, treading water,
a life jacketed jump from a height, swimming around, are things you may have to do in the pool.

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/btraining/cflrs_e.aspx


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## belkin81

you don't need to know how to swim to pass bmq, i had several on my reg bmq that didnt know


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## PARAMEDIC

hey guys ..iv'e read thru all the post on swimming but what i want to know is that...
this  applies to all ppl who have been thru basic at st.jean esp most recent graduates ..as seeiing thru other post that standards can change thru time...this is for reg force training..
what i want to know is that during which weeks did you go to the pool for swim training and how many days you spent in the water
and what u did there...yes i have seen all the video and read thru the req...20m with life jacket paddle for 3 mins etc...
the reason why i ask this is that...im an ok swimmer i can do all the requirements but the only problem i have ..other than the fear of drowning is that i can't keep myself afloat for long periods of time...all my friends have been training me on staying afloat.. i spend far too much energy trying to keep afloat..they tell me to relax and that thats the key to staying afloat w/ the hand and leg movements....but when i try to relax and move my arms slowly to conserve energy i sink like i have cement shoes on ....and thats where the fear of drowning comes into play... dont get me wrong i can swim the length of a pool (freestyle or float on my back for long periods of time) its staying afloat vertically thats the  problem ...lenth of an average pool a couple of times...
and tips on how to combat this problem..im taking swim classes at the local pool but still have this problem..
Is this ging to affect me negatively (other than being classified as a non swimmer) thru bmq/sq/biq ..for instance would i fail SQ and BIQ due to not being able to swim good or will i just be classified as a non swimmer and be posted to my unit or be revoked by my unit for this reason...its getting me a little ancy......
oh btw if you are gonna post a reply as "read the faq"  don't just go to another post and do it
sry guys but i ended up flying off the handle on this one numptie hence the verbal warning...oh yeah and 1 post with a numptie comment on my part...so there directing staff  ;D just incase you were coming up with a reminder for me as to why i goot the warning..lol beat you to that didn't I ..huh ,huh...hahahahha
newayz thx for the response and the tips

cheers


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## Sundborg

Ok, this is how it goes at BMQ.

You will go to the pool on week 2 to do your swim test, and then again on either week 5 or 6.  Keep in mind that it IS NOT a requirement to swim in order to pass the BMQ.

Your swim test on week two will consist of treading water for 2 minutes, then swimmin to the end of a 25m pool (this is done in your combat pants and shirt, so it tends to tire you a bit more).  Then you will have to jump off of a 3m diving board with a life jacket on, and upon surfacing to the water, you must raise your hand an give a thumbs up.  Then after surfacing, you must swim to the end of the 25m pool.  That's it.
If you can not pass that test, then you will "attempt" to redo it on either week 5 or 6.  Again, you will NOT have to pass it or try it again if you do not wish.
The second time going, if you are not redoing your test, you will probably do some pool exercises where you will swim the lengths of the pool a few times with various things and do a few push-ups and sit-ups.

That's pretty much all there is to swimming.


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## PARAMEDIC

thx sundborg really detailed, i like it a lot
the other part is have you done your SQ and if yes ...if you can answer my second part of the question..i.e  will i fail the SQ or BIQ and will i be revoked by my unit if i cant make the swimming part..
thx in advance for your reply..wish everyone could post detailed answers like you have


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## Scott

I can not help you as far as quoting standards but I can say that on my QL2 we had a small fellow who sunk like a rock as soon as he jumped in the pool. I am almost certain that he failed the test but he still passed the course and went on to his 3's (Artillery) and passed there as well. That was 7 years ago though so it may not be of much help.

Sundborg's post on what you have to do for the test is very accurate, at least from when I was in.


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## Sundborg

Sappo,

They probably just do a swimming "test" just to see where everyone is at with regards to swimming, so they can put it on one's file just for reference.  Even though it isn't part of the requirements for course, it doesn't hurt to go over the area.
I'm sure for Reserve BMQ they would probably just do something similar, it couldn't be much different, it should be the same standards everywhere.


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## Scott

If you ever do an ex in Gagetown you'll understand why they want to know if you can swim. Same friend of mine who was afflicted with the condition of sinking like a rock fell in a hole in the muskeg during our final ex, he's damn lucky others were close enough to get him out because he was an OK swimmer in the pool, but add battle order and........


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## AlphaCharlie

Alright, I just did my swim test *YESTERDAY*, so here's the deal. 

BTW i'm on my Reserve DP1 Infantry course (BIQ) at the moment.

1. Hop in the pool with combats on.

2. Tread water for 2 mins. and then swim to the end of the pool.

3. Put on a fancy CadPat lifejacket and look really cool.

4. Forward roll into the pool (thats how you deploy off an assault boat) and swim to the end of the pool. 

Swim test is over. Note that the whole test is with combats on.


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## Sundborg

Yup, pretty close to what I remembered.  Did you have a 3m diving board there where you did your test?


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## AlphaCharlie

Sundborg said:
			
		

> Yup, pretty close to what I remembered.   Did you have a 3m diving board there where you did your test?



Negative, no diving board at the pool.


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## NavyGrunt

4. Forward roll into the pool (thats how you deploy off an assault boat) and swim to the end of the pool.  


Ive never heard that before.

Anyways mine was jump in the pool in gear off the diving board(sommersault) swim 2 lengths, tread water for 5 minutes. Done. Those that failed got a PO failure and were told they had to pass a retest in the next year.


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## Charlie

Well since you've probably already found out that you have to move your feet and hands to tread water , not just let your body stay afloat by itself (if that's what you were suggesting) I just have one thing to add.  I am a qualified lifeguard and swim instructor, and in our training we learned- and this is 100% true- that, some people just DON'T FLOAT. Because either
                              1)They have low body fat and are very lean, even if you have some body fat you might still be in clined to sink, it depends on the individual and,
                              2)It also depends on your ethnic background. Some ethnicities are more inclined to sink because of their body chemistry. Black people and First Nations people for example are more likely to sink than let's say a person who is Caucasian or Oriental, they would be more likely to float.
                            I hope this helps anyone that is having difficulty floating on their back or such, because since i was a kid, and even after the numerous swimming courses I've taken, it is impossible for me to relax on my back and stay afloat for more than a few seconds.  So I know how frustrating it can be.
By the way I'm 18 and I'm applying to join the Army this year in hopefully, combat engineer, armoured soldier, or artillery air defence. Wish me luck. Bye ; 
.


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## Tigger

Just some more questions on swimming, if u don't mind 

1. Do we really have to tread the water continuously, or the idea is just to stay afloat without swimming ( and touching anything, of course)

2. Do they time us when we swim 25m, or whatever to the end of the pool, or we just have to swim there with no stop?

Thanks a lot.


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## Sundborg

With regards to tredding water:  as long as you stay afloat, do what you wish.
No they will not time you to get to the end of the pool.  Just as long as you don't touch the sides or anything when you swim there.


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## scaddie

Yeah man...don't worry about it at all! Last year we only had to pull about 17 out of the 144 recruits out of the pool, but this year we only had one sink. The hardest part is treading water, the basic idea is just to remain floating. If you're strong, not only in the head but physically it won't be hard! Just don't panic, and freeze up. That's the number one mistake!


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## SprCForr

You do not deploy from an assualt boat using a forward roll. That's just Hollywood stuff.


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## LanceaLot

What if you want to join the Navy, but are not a good swimmer at all, would they toss you?


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## NavyGrunt

LanceaLot said:
			
		

> What if you want to join the Navy, but are not a good swimmer at all, would they toss you?



No. I have buddies in the Navy who still cant swim. Not only did they fail the swimming PC in BMQ- they never re-did it. Their kiliks without ever having redone the test.

As for treading water- we were allowed to do whatever. I just tried to float on my back- semi upright. Hard in all your gear but it worked.


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## CF104Starfighter

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> hey guys ..iv'e read thru all the post on swimming but what i want to know is that...
> this   applies to all ppl who have been thru basic at st.jean esp most recent graduates ..as seeiing thru other post that standards can change thru time...this is for reg force training..
> what i want to know is that during which weeks did you go to the pool for swim training and how many days you spent in the water
> and what u did there...yes i have seen all the video and read thru the req...20m with life jacket paddle for 3 mins etc...
> the reason why i ask this is that...im an ok swimmer i can do all the requirements but the only problem i have ..other than the fear of drowning is that i can't keep myself afloat for long periods of time...all my friends have been training me on staying afloat.. i spend far too much energy trying to keep afloat..they tell me to relax and that thats the key to staying afloat w/ the hand and leg movements....but when i try to relax and move my arms slowly to conserve energy i sink like i have cement shoes on ....and thats where the fear of drowning comes into play... dont get me wrong i can swim the length of a pool (freestyle or float on my back for long periods of time) its staying afloat vertically thats the   problem ...lenth of an average pool a couple of times...
> and tips on how to combat this problem..im taking swim classes at the local pool but still have this problem..
> Is this ging to affect me negatively (other than being classified as a non swimmer) thru bmq/sq/biq ..for instance would i fail SQ and BIQ due to not being able to swim good or will i just be classified as a non swimmer and be posted to my unit or be revoked by my unit for this reason...its getting me a little ancy......
> oh btw if you are gonna post a reply as "read the faq"   don't just go to another post and do it
> sry guys but i ended up flying off the handle on this one numptie hence the verbal warning...oh yeah and 1 post with a numptie comment on my part...so there directing staff   ;D just incase you were coming up with a reminder for me as to why i goot the warning..lol beat you to that didn't I ..huh ,huh...hahahahha
> newayz thx for the response and the tips
> 
> cheers


I just happen to be a swimming instructor...Maybe I can give some tips.  When you're treading water, make sure your arms are wide.  Make sure the hands are slightly cupped, and make sure your kick is constant.  A good way to keep the kick constant is "eggbeater."  It's self explanatory...Kick your legs like an eggbeater.  Your friends are right...You should just relax.  If you can swim laps, then you can float.  All levels of swimming are progressions, and in the first level, the first progression is floating.  If you know how to swim, you know how to float.  It's a state of mind...Just relax in the water...Nothing's going to happen to you, if anyone sees you struggle and go under, someone will come in and get you.


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## oittoi

Hi.  I know I have to take swim test during the recruiting process.  Is there any style/stroke you have to swim during the test, or is it ok as long as I can swim 25-50 meters in whatever stroke I want?  I can't swim at all in freestyle (crawl), can swim about 50 meters in breaststroke, and swim for hours in my own funny-looking original style of my own ;D  Does CF requires you to swim in a certain way?  Thanks


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## -rb

There is no swim test during the recruiting process, read the recruiting FAQs and browse through the forum for an overview of what's involved. You will be required to write the CFAT, do a medical and physical fitness exam as well as an interview. 

If you pass all of these things and move on to basic training I believe you will be required to do a few things in the pool so you might want to brush up on your swimming abilities...if you feel you need a hand with that may I suggest the inflatable water wings, orange in color. (and no, as far as I know you won't be able to use them while in basic) 

Search the forums for 'swim test' or 'swimming' and I'm sure you'll get quite a few results.

cheers.


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## kincanucks

He is not too far off as there has been some discussion that the swimming test should be done at the recruiting level and even perhaps having the applicant obtain his/her Standard First Aid as part of the application requirements.  More to follow.  Cheers.


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## kincanucks

TheCheez said:
			
		

> Are you serious?
> 
> What're they gonna do for those first 4 weekends we're locked on base then?!
> 
> I guess we need more details but I'm skeptical.



I said it was in discussion and no decisions have been made.  Don't get your knickers all knotted up and don't worry they will find something to do with you.


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## scaddie

Generally you will do a swim test during your SQ. All it involves is treading water for two minutes, swimming 25 meters in combats (minus boots),  then doing another 25 metres with a PFD.  It's not very hard if you're  a strong swimmer, though I've seen my share of sinkers.


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## c4th

kincanucks said:
			
		

> He is not too far off as there has been some discussion that the swimming test should be done at the recruiting level and even perhaps having the applicant obtain his/her Standard First Aid as part of the application requirements.   More to follow.   Cheers.



I can almost force myself to see the reasoning behind a swim test, but in reality I have had very little cause to swim anywhere with cbt's on.

Having applicants get their standard first aid prior to enrolment is a waste of time.  Does your local St John's ambulance teach the treating Pneumothorax in MOPP high and or any other trauma first-aid?  Are there really that many viable applicants coming in the door that CFRC has to add more prerequisites to enrolment?


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## kincanucks

c4th said:
			
		

> I can almost force myself to see the reasoning behind a swim test, but in reality I have had very little cause to swim anywhere with cbt's on.
> 
> Having applicants get their standard first aid prior to enrolment is a waste of time.   Does your local St John's ambulance teach the treating Pneumothorax in MOPP high and or any other trauma first-aid?   Are there really that many viable applicants coming in the door that CFRC has to add more prerequisites to enrolment?



The issues arise from CFLRS (St Jean) where they want the recruit better prepared for BMQ.  They feel that if the recruit has some of the basics when they arrive then they can provide more detailed training at the BMQ level and thus producing a better prepared service person for future training.


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## oittoi

thanks alot, guys, but back to the swimming question:  what if you sink during the SQ then?  Do you get as many chances as you want until you make it or do you fail?  And I was also wandering whether different branches of service expect different swimming standard.  If nobody really cares as long as I pass the test during the SQ, then I wouldn't worry.  But I've been thinking that some units (like reconnaisance or infantry) regiments would expect more swimming skills than arty or armoured since they have to do river crossing and stuff?


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## Buzz

Scaddie said:
			
		

> Generally you will do a swim test during your SQ. All it involves is treading water for two minutes, swimming 25 meters in combats (minus boots),   then doing another 25 metres with a PFD.   It's not very hard if you're   a strong swimmer, though I've seen my share of sinkers.



I agree! I was one of those sinkers.LOL   I used this quote to give a perspective from the other side of the coin.

At BMQ,   I have never swam with clothes on before and after treading water for 2 min, then try and swim the 25 meters. It's not an easy task. I didn't make it on the first portion but made the 25 meters with a PFD.   Although, if you fail one thing, you have to redo the whole thing. I was confident and was deeply dissappointed that I didn't make.

For round 2 it wasn't hard because I knew what to expect and had proper coaching to do so.   And the feeling regained after doing something failed was very empowering within.   If you pass the first time.   Remember that there are those that haven't swam before or aren't strong and if it's easy for you...it's a big b#tch for them. LOL 

As for instructions on what it is you have to do....just listen to the staff and he/she will tell you what you need to do.

cheers!!
-Buzz


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## i_was_issued_a_husband

I wouldn't worry about the swim test, there are always a few on the course who cant swim and fail it, but the all make it through basic, just make sure that you wear a belt when you do your test.  When I did my swim test I didn't wear my belt, and in the middle of treading water my combat pants fell off, thank god you wear a bathingsuit under your combats.  I had to finish treadding water, then dive to the bottom of the pool to get my pants.  That 9 years ago, and to this day when ever I talk to the guys I went through basic with they laugh their a$$es off at me.  Remember belts are needed because the pants get ALOT bigger when they are wet. lol


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## 392

c4th said:
			
		

> I can almost force myself to see the reasoning behind a swim test, but in reality I have had very little cause to swim anywhere with cbt's on.



I believe the swim test with Combats on is a throwback to the troopship/amphibious landing days - need to be able to swim with your combats on when the ship or carrier goes down. Doesn't have much relevancy these days with no troopships or amphibious capability, but still helps to instill confidence into new recruits that they can in fact do it if they put their minds to it.



> Does your local St John's ambulance teach the treating Pneumothorax in MOPP high and or any other trauma first-aid?



Sorry, cannot agree on this one. I don't recall having done any kind of pneumothorax treatment in MOPP anything on a military first aid course. I don't necessarily agree that enough is covered on the Mil FA course, but I do think every single soldier should be qualified to the TCCC standard or BTLS. Although, the last complete Mil FA course I did a month ago did include _some_ trauma first aid, but nothing anywhere near the BTLS course I attended in 2004.


----------



## GO!!!

c4th - I've had a great need for swimming abilities in the infantry
1) Assault boat flipped x2
2) Water x-ing of a stream moving a little too fast (swept downstream)
3) co2 cartridges not firing in stupid army flotation device on a water jump (happened to another guy)
4) boat flipping on adventure trg in BC
5) RHIB insertions/extractions
6) Helo casting

I think the ability to swim is part of the basic skills we should cultivate, in addition to this, it is a nice change from running 5x a week. On top of that - we already own the facilities and instructors!


----------



## c4th

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I think the ability to swim is part of the basic skills we should cultivate,



I agree 100% that swimming should be incorporated into training for all the reasons you stated.  I obviously support annual swim tests at the unit level in order that training that you mentioned can be conducted with some degree of safety.  

I don't agree that it should be a prescreen requirement in the recruiting process.  IMO the recruiting process is long and onerous at best, and before more hoops are placed on the path to enrollment I think it would be better to take weak and non-swimmers faster and teach them to swim at the facilities we man and own.


----------



## Delta

hello mates, i got few questions about the swimming in the BMQ

1. How far do I need to swim for?
2. I am not going to swim with boots on right?
3. Does it matter which style I swim in?


----------



## Carbon-14

1.  I had to do just once around the pool..   also gotta stay tread water for 2 minutes
2.  Nope no boots
3.  Any style you want no time limit


This test is basicly to seperate the rocks from the soldiers.  The only way to fail is to not follow instructions, give up, or drown


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## Michael OLeary

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Search words - "swim test"

First hit - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31580.0.html

Answer - Reply #5



			
				Scaddie said:
			
		

> Generally you will do a swim test during your SQ. All it involves is treading water for two minutes, swimming 25 meters in combats (minus boots),  then doing another 25 metres with a PFD.  It's not very hard if you're  a strong swimmer, though I've seen my share of sinkers.



Finding the information you seek all by yourself - priceless

Thread locked.


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## StormTrooper

I'm gonna have my swim test next weekend. My question is, does it matter if we swim underwater or not? I ask because I am a lot faster underwater, and I am pretty sure I look lame when I swim above water because I'm all over the place.


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## Spr.Earl

If it's the same combat swim test?
It's in combat's and do 1 or 2 length's of the pool.
Just do your breast stroke and you will pass.


----------



## StormTrooper

We just had our test last weekend, and it was a fun experience which by the end, brought our whole course closer together. I didn't find the test to be all that hard, considering the fact that I haven't been close to a swimming pool in the longest time. I was however out of breath by the time I was done. If it wasn't for the 15 second break I was allowed to have when I got to the first end, I don't think I could have made it, because I wasted a lot of my energy on the treading  . The instructor just told me to work on it a bit more on my own time, but I'm pretty sure I passed. Just don't panic when you jump into the water, or bump into someone else when you are in the water. Also, before the test, I recommend you to work on treading the water without wasting a lot of energy.


----------



## polo

Not only did we do the swim test but after some of our platoon was allowed to go off the Olympic Board  ;D That was a hell of a time. And if you don't swim much make sure you get to a pool and practice or have lessons before you go for the test. Basically you jump from a 3m board w/ a life jacket and swim one length (remember to breathe out of your nose when you hit the water  :-\ ), then take off the life-vest, off of a 1/2m-1m board do a flip into the water and move to a line and tread until EVERYONE is in the water at the line, then you do 2 minutes treading, then one length. You wait until everyone is spread out along the wall and everyone swims the last length together, try not to hit anyone while you do this because it does get crowded and others might not be able to swim as well as you. 
But hey, it's an easy thing, just know when to hold your breath and know when breathe  :-X


----------



## Chauhan

I can swim pretty well but i might fail the treading part.. I'm going swimming 3-4 times a week BMQ starts on Feb 20th but I cant tread more then 10 seconds  ^-^ im practising so you never know i might be able to do 2 minutes but even if i don't no harm done..just practise a bit more after BMQ's finished..


----------



## LordVagabond

Manu: the key to long term treading is to relax. Don't kick hard, don't flail your arms to keep your head above water. Use slow, rhythmic kicks and keep your arm strokes smooth and in time with your kicks. What I mean by this is from the full back position, your arms should be straight but not locked as they go forward, and on the back stroke, your elbows should be bent 15-25 degrees, witht he palms of your hands pointing in the direction of the stroke. For the kicks, your legs should be mostly straight, your toes pointed. This should keep your chin at or just a millimeter below water level, but your nose and mouth will be above water level without worry. Also, KEEP BREATHING!!!!! Slow, long, deep (to-the-belly) breaths will keep your natural buoyancy up, as well as keep your body oxygenated. Do that every day until you can go 3 minutes, and you'll be fine  ;D

Also, remember, a lot of it is mental. BELIEVE that you can do it, and within a few short days I expect that you'll see your time drastically improve  :warstory:


----------



## Bradboy

Manu, don't stress the swim test too much. It was one of the more easy tests I found in BMQ. As long as you can swim you'll be o.k. The hardest part was treading water for 2 minutes but even then it wasn't that hard. Oh and by the way you have to wear coveralls throughout the swim test too. Hope everything works out and good luck on your BMQ.


----------



## polo

You can check out these pictures that were taken for the DND site during my platoon's swim test.

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&defaultjoin=and&field=Keywords&op=contains&value=+&field=Keywords&op=contains&value=bmq&field=Shoot+Date&op=on+or+after&value=01%2F01%2F2006&field=Shoot+Date&op=on+or+before&value=06%2F06%2F2006&site=combatcamera&catalog=photos&template=results_e.np&sorton=IPTC%20-%20DateCreated&ascending=0

It's all fun and easy, plus is isn't like you have to redothe test if you fail. I'm pretty sure all they do is give you a special thing to put on your rucksack when you're doing anything concerning water/swimming so they can help you first out of others stranded or what not, or even just to keep they're eye on you.


----------



## WebAddict

I am a good at swimming , i can swim 300 m in no problem, but I cant do a summersault, I land on my back  and it hurts sometimes,  I can do a "perfect" dive, anyway of not doing a summersault?


----------



## polo

Well, no there isn't a way of getting out of it, but it isn't from very high. They actually want you to go in 'not perfectly' because when you fall out of a boat, you're going to be disoriented and it isn't going to be perfect. Don't worry you'll be fine.
Oh and PS you won't be diving head first, it'll be like jumping off the platform and crossing your arms and legs (and wearing a lifevest).


----------



## kac146

Does anyone know where I can buy prescription swimming goggles here in Kingston? Recently got posted here and I'm not quite sure as to where I buy a pair.
Thanks in advance for any input..


----------



## Zertz

I didn't think such a thing existed until now, did I quick google search and you can get them online, otherwise I'd imagine asking where prescription eyeglasses/sunglassed and sports/swimming gear are sold would probably either finding you a place or get you forewarded to a place.


----------



## kac146

Went around a few optical places in Kingston.  It found only 2 places that sell them Precision Optical and Vision Care Optical at Walmart.  Both carry the same selection of prescription swim goggles. Precision sells for about $70 and Walmart for about $40. Got mine from the latter.
Cheers,
kac146


----------



## Ordinary Dummy

I just completed my basic in St Jean recently and after scrolling through the 8 pages on this thread I can offer this;  yes there is a swim test at St Jean and no you do not have to pass the test in order to complete basic.  Personally i am a good swimmer but failed it the first time i attempted this.  I failed because of the water that fills up in your combats.  They tell you to tie the combat pants at the bottom and do up your belt nice and tight.  They also tell you to tie the string inside your combat jacket as well.  From a personal stand point, I dont recommend doing up either.  Thats what killed me the first time.  Too much water got in there and just weighed me down.  The second time i attempted the test i left all the strings untied and I had no problems what so ever.  No water filled my pants or shirt.  What a difference.  Good luck.


----------



## punkd

Passing the swim test is not mandatory, we had about 5 people in my platoon that could not swim. They give you a retest for it around week 4, even if you still don't pass it is not a P.O failure. Combats do get a little heavy, I still found it fairly easy though. If you are not a good swimmer during the 2 mins of tread water, just float on your back they allow it. That will make you less tired when you have to swim to the other end of the pool. In my opinion, the swim test is just another day of training don't think of it as a test.


----------



## medicjade

There were 2 people that have never swam in their lives, and who did not finish the swim. They TRIED their hardest, and they were given a pass, so as long as you try your hardest you will do fine.


----------



## Ordinary Dummy

you dont have to know how to swim if you are going navy.  that doesnt make a lick of difference.  The swim instructors dont have a clue what element you are when u jump in that pool. It was funny how many people on our basic said "he's in the navy and he doesnt know how to swim!!"  Well i got a news flash for ya.  It dont matter if you can swim or not, you fall into the Atlantic Ocean you are screwed unless someone sees you because all the swim lessons in the world wont save your butt then.  Think about it.


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## grayman

Swim test means absolutly "JACK SQUAT", as for BMQ in Borden you are tested in week one, retested week four or five , if you flunk it does not matter, a waste of valuable training time if you ask me, which could be used a lot more effectivly.  I dont know about ST Jean but in Borden, If memory serves me correctly between the initial test and retest we have one pool PT period, useless for non swimmers, it wont help you to learn how to swim. Dont sweat the swim test.


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## AznVengence

I'm hearing a lot of things about this swimming thing. But I just want to clear it up. Sorry if I posting the same thing.
Do we have to pass the swimming test to pass the basic training? do we have to atleast attempt it?
(I want to join the reserves)


----------



## Zertz

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17795.0.html

Reg Force ->

Sundborg says:

"Ok, this is how it goes at BMQ.

You will go to the pool on week 2 to do your swim test, and then again on either week 5 or 6.  Keep in mind that it IS NOT a requirement to swim in order to pass the BMQ.

Your swim test on week two will consist of treading water for 2 minutes, then swimmin to the end of a 25m pool (this is done in your combat pants and shirt, so it tends to tire you a bit more).  Then you will have to jump off of a 3m diving board with a life jacket on, and upon surfacing to the water, you must raise your hand an give a thumbs up.  Then after surfacing, you must swim to the end of the 25m pool.  That's it.
If you can not pass that test, then you will "attempt" to redo it on either week 5 or 6.  Again, you will NOT have to pass it or try it again if you do not wish.
The second time going, if you are not redoing your test, you will probably do some pool exercises where you will swim the lengths of the pool a few times with various things and do a few push-ups and sit-ups.

That's pretty much all there is to swimming."

I'd assume its the same for PRes. I'm going on Res BMQ soon and I swim rather poorly, incidently. I'd suggest trying, but not drowning - not that my opinion carries any weight.


----------



## The_Pipes

For the Reserves it goes as such. The swim test is not done on BMQ or SQ however it is done in Dp1 Inf/BIQ. It is also conducted anually at your home unit. We did ours again about a month ago and it was this; With a life jacket on jump into the pool and do a length of a pool and back, with the life jacket off jump into the pool and tread water for 2 minutes then do a length.

It is not required to pass, the only reason for the swim test on BIQ and at your home unit is to seperate the strong swimmers from the weak swimmers. From my experience the only difference that is done is for when doing assault boat training or on exercise is that those deemed weak swimmers will, instead of getting the olive drab life jacket, they will get either a bright orange one or a bunch of glow sticks that way if something happens they are easy to see and thus help.

I have seen people who know they cannot swim, tell the life guard this and jump in and immediately panic, cant swim and ask for help and fail. However in the Reserves at least, the failure doesn't hinder a thing except the above mentioned. So to your answer, for reserves you will only do it if going onto your infantry course or if you will be doing it on an exercise or as part of IBTS.


----------



## Zertz

There you have it. Thanks for the clarification - do you know if its just Infantry or all Combat Arms that swimtest on the 3s? I assume CSS have no use for it.


----------



## The_Pipes

I wouldn't know about the other combat arms, however you learn the assault boats for infantry. So if there's assault boats in the other combat arm's 3's then most definitely the swim test would be conducted. But I don't know for sure.


----------



## aesop081

Zertz said:
			
		

> There you have it. Thanks for the clarification - do you know if its just Infantry or all Combat Arms that swimtest on the 3s? *I assume CSS have no use for it.*



And why would that be ? Please explain your theory on this......i'm dying to know

I did the swim test again on my field engineer QL3 also....to adress the first part of your post.


----------



## beach_bum

I'd like to hear it as well.  I'm CSS and I've done the swim test on more than one occasion by the way.


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## mhawk

It's for a  fact that u dont need to pass the swim test to pass bmq.  On my BMQ/SQ one guy didnt know how to swim and didnt pass the test but still went to graduate.  As well the only time you need to pass the swim test is when you are goin over seas.


----------



## paracowboy

mhawk said:
			
		

> It's for a  fact that u dont need to pass the swim test to pass bmq.  On my BMQ/SQ one guy didnt know how to swim and didnt pass the test but still went to graduate.  As well the only time you need to pass the swim test is when you are goin over seas.


false. If you do not KNOW, do not post!

If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot take the Basic Recce Course (Reg Force, anyway), or any of the other courses for which Basic Recce is a pre-requisite. If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot partake in certain Watermanship training. If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot participate in certain helo-casting activites. If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot participate in water parachuting landings. If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot take any of the various Diving Courses. And on, and on...


----------



## beach_bum

I know everyone who had participated in adventure trg (one year it was kayaking, another a hike) also had to pass the swim test.


----------



## The_Pipes

paracowboy said:
			
		

> If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot take the Basic Recce Course (Reg Force, anyway), or any of the other courses for which Basic Recce is a pre-requisite. If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot partake in certain Watermanship training. If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot participate in certain helo-casting activites. If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot participate in water parachuting landings. If you cannot pass the swim test, you cannot take any of the various Diving Courses. And on, and on...



To basically sum everything up, if your training involves water then you'll NEED to take the swim test and depending on the training involved a pass may or may not be required (from my reserves experience, there isn't much training that requires the pass, including the reserve dp1 inf, and in the reserves you won't see the swim test until at least your trades qual), depends on what you will be doing, or if your course involves water training or advanced water training such as the recce course or others mentioned above then a pass if required.

So it depends on what you're doing.


----------



## COBRA-6

I've been the course officer for reserve BMQ, SQ and BIQ. IIRC, the swim test is only needed before the assault boat training during BIQ. That was a few years ago however, and the course packages seem to be in a state of constant change...

Cheers,


----------



## LeonTheNeon

During BOTC regardless of branch you will do the basic swimming test.  If I recall correctly it involves:

While wearing combats with a life vest (no boots)
1) Jump off a diving board (5m) feet first into a pool
2) Tread water for 2 minutes 
3) Swim 50m

(Edit: I just remembered the second half of the test)
While wearing combats w/o a Life vest(no boots)
1) Jump from the side of the pool feet first
2) Tread water for 2 minutes
3) Swim 50m

This, as explained by the PSP staff, was supposed to represent falling off a helicopter or ship.  Having to tread water until they could throw you a life preserver, or get somebody in the water to save you, and then being able to swim to them/it.

This doesn't happen day 1 in the pool or anything so worry pas.  You'll get a chance to get to practice your swimming during regular PT classes before they get you to do this.  Also, you will be taught how to catch some air with your combats to help keep you afloat.  Also, at least when I did it, they don't care how you swim the 50m.  You can change strokes in mid swim or whatever.  This helps a lot if you're not a good swimmer.

Hope that helps!

Important tip:  Don't be a dumba** like me and forget your swimming trunks on test day.


----------



## GUNS

147,

Not sure if this still applies but I could not swim a stroke when I joined in 1967 and I passed Basic Training. I had to attend swimming class at every posting. I still can't swim. Only thing that saved me was that I was not afraid of the water and I never freaked out when they would throw me into the pool. If at all possible, learn to swim. As the swim instructor would say to me, " I don't give a damn if you drown, its the guy who is drowning and you have to stand there and do nothing because you can't swim"


----------



## RowdyBowdy

I don't think passing the swim test was a requirement to pass BMQ, however, if you fail you get to do remedial swimming lessons with the others who failed while everyones else does Pool PT.


----------



## RedStorm

i looked around and didnt see any mention of this i was curious if ear plugs were allowed during the swimming test?


----------



## LeonTheNeon

This is not a definitive answer, and is based solely on my limited knowledge and personal experience.

I imagine with ear plugs it is going to depend on whether it is for a valid medical condition or not.  If it isn't then likely the answer is no.  If it is for a medical condition then make sure you get a note from the MIR long before you're pool side.  This isn't the sort of thing you want to bring up at the last second.  N.B, I do not recommend getting medical notes for very trivial things, you really only want to do this if it is going to be a serious risk to your life or hearing.

Although not your question, nose plugs were specifically mentioned as being not allowed.


----------



## GO!!!

The swim test includes an abandon ship drill, in which you wear combats and a life jacket, to simulate how you would be dressed on a ship. As such, goggles, nose plugs and ear plugs would kind of defeat the purpose of the drill would'nt it?


----------



## RedStorm

its for a medical reason that can only be rectified by surgery which isn't an option at the moment because i believe its a 6 month wait then 2-4 week recovery and i have to have my papers in to my school by November. However thanks Leon I will speak with my MIR when the time comes.


----------



## paracowboy

RedStorm said:
			
		

> its for a medical reason that can only be rectified by surgery which isn't an option at the moment because i believe its a 6 month wait then 2-4 week recovery and i have to have my papers in to my school by November. However thanks Leon I will speak with my MIR when the time comes.


and your recruiting center is aware of this issue?


----------



## LeonTheNeon

MIR = Medical Inspection Room.  I.e. the medical clinic.

By the way, paracowboy's question is very pertinent.  If the CFRC does not know about this, they really need to.  Hiding a medical condition during enrollment could (will?) be construed as lying on your application, even if it is simply a matter of not being forthcoming (ye olde lie of omission).  Although having some kind of medical condition isn't a death blow to a career in the armed forces, hiding something during your medical almost certainly would be or at a minimum be a very bad thing for your career.  

Not to stress you out and certainly not to accuse you of anything, but it is something to consider.

The flip side of that is, if you've told the CFRC about this, you've been cleared medically while being fully forthcoming, then worry pas.  Just make your course staff aware of the need to get a medical note, and they'll either get you to see somebody during your numerous scheduled trips to the MIR or they'll tell you which morning to go as part of the sick parade.


----------



## RedStorm

I haven't applied yet, this program is though my schools "military coop" for my second semester. If I get accepted I will certainly bring it up when I'm in the medical clinic during the recruiting process.


----------



## Wright

DEagle said:
			
		

> Well this is kinda emberesing...i am in good shape and i wana join recruits but i dont know how to swim...actually my biggest fear is water...last year i jumped of bridge with my friends but i had life jacket on....i just wana know whut distance am i suposed to swim and is it really necessary for me to know how to swim really good?
> thanks



no dont worry about it, it usually means that you will have a retest and even then that was kinda pointless cuz the people still didnt pass it, i ahd navy in my platoon that couldnt do it, while they had their retest we had fun in the pool and played water polo, that is all ur missin out on really :blotto:


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## agadou

As far as I know, there is no swim test in the reserve BMQ. But if you are a combat engineer reserve, you have to do one in your NQ3 for assault boat qualification.


----------



## Saorse

Probably not the first time this has been heard before! I was on the CFLRS web site today, examining the weekly and training schedules and such, and noticed the dreaded swimming test. I essentially, without doubt, swim like a brick. Should I learn how to swim in the next 12 or so days to survive IAP?


----------



## Slimjim

To tell you the truth the swim test isn't that hard. Even if you don't know how to swim, and it doesn't really count towards your final report. When you get to your first swim session they will ask for who doesn't know how to swim, be honest if will help you in the long run. They will teach you and help you to pass the swim test, and if you don't pass the first time don't worry, you will get more help before you have to do the retest.


----------



## Armymedic

What he said. If you can float/tread water and master a side stroke then your golden.

The military will teach you how to swim better, and give the time to practice... > not always a pleasant thing.

I learned to swim during my basic tng yrs ago, and still take lessons so that I can improve. I run like the wind, but a dozen lengths of a pool still feels like a marathon to me.


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## Saorse

Okay, well that's not too bad at all. Heck, it's an excuse for me to get into the water and learn how. I certainly won't be embarassed to say that I can't: it'd save the embarassment of drowning in a pool down the road.


----------



## Blue_Stratocaster

Ok its been said, but its a long post, for those fast forwarding to the end to see the sum of it all here it is.

At cflrs, st-jean, the mega:
there is a swim test. Passing it or not, is not going to cost you the course. I am 1/2 done my bmq there (although home for the weekend, its a long weekend for qubec). I failed the swim test. I retest this week. Failing again will not cost me the couse. I hope to pass, but I doubt I will. The test is not all the difficult, I am just that bad in water. Many self discribed "non swimmers" in my platoon passed. so.......

Try your best,
take lessons if u still have time,
try to pass/complete every task they give you, they are all important,
and dont under any circumstances refuse to do the test, afraid or not. They will not let you drown in the pool at basic. When I went under while trying my test they pulled me out as soon as I went under, rather than waiting for me to reach for their stick. Failing the test is ok, failing to try is not. 
Before the test they will ask for the week or non swimmers. These people will do their test in lanes 1 and 8. They are closest to the sides, and your life guard is within feet of you.


----------



## armyvern

Blue_Stratocaster said:
			
		

> Ok its been said, but its a long post, for those fast forwarding to the end to see the sum of it all here it is.
> 
> At cflrs, st-jean, the mega:
> there is a swim test. Passing it or not, is not going to cost you the course...  Failing again will not cost me the couse. I hope to pass, but I doubt I will.
> Try ... Failing the test is ok, failing to try is not...



WTF???

Have the standards lowered that much that we are now passing personnel in Basic who fail a "mandatory" test of which the minimum acceptable standard was "Pass." When did this change?? The books still say "pass." I'm going to have to work on finding out the answer to this one today.

BTW,

Word up to those of you who make it through without "passing" (I have serious problems with that little tidbit ... I'm a lifeguard) ...

In some Units, the test is given each year or every couple of years. What are you going to do then? What are you going to do when PT happens to be a session ... in the pool (and not the shallow end)?? Water polo can be fun for PT ...

Despite the advice given in the quoted post regarding "failure being OK," I'd strongly encourage each of you to make the most of your time in Basic where they will provide you with the tools to "earn" that pass that must show on your paperwork for successful completion of Basic. That's what you're there for. 

One day being able to "pass" that test may save your life; it is a pre-req for a reason.

Once you're in the water just try to relax. Dropping off the tower has it's downpoints for some swimmers too because some of them are afraid of heights. Remember that you have a life jacket on and that you _will_ come back to the surface. Don't panic!! People FLOAT!!! People who panic, don't float as well. When doing the treading water portion, instead of looking straight ahead, try leaning your head back so that you can see the walls and the roof to take your mind off the fact that you are in the water. I've seen that calm enough 'non-swimmers' that they did fine and were able to successfully complete the portion. Don't worry about the lifeguard, do not concentrate on them and their nice 'Lifeguard' shirt...it doesn't do well for ones mind; instead concentrate on trying to remain calm and looking upwards. You will be more successful. The lifeguard will be watching you, they _will_ come in to get you if there's a problem of that you can be assured. Slow, deep breaths people ... instead of quick short ones; it keeps more air in your lungs and you float much better.


----------



## Blackadder1916

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Have the standards lowered that much that we are now passing personnel in Basic who fail a "mandatory" test of which the minimum acceptable standard was "Pass." When did this change?? The books still say "pass." I'm going to have to work on finding out the answer to this one today.



I don't know if the standards have changed, but it appears that application of the standards have not changed much.  I'm one of those typical non-swim capable Newfoundlanders.  Our belief is that if God had intended people to swim he would not have made the North Atlantic so cold.  And yet I had no problem going out in small boats on the great big sea or even going to the 'front' one season many years ago.  I've even been known to go into the water at the beach and splash around sufficently well that lifeguards were not overly concerned (or else they are paying more attention to those more physically attractive than me). (_cue theme music and slow-motion running scene from Baywatch_)

Over 30 years ago (Cornwallis) I was one of those who raised their hand to identify non/poor swimmers.  Not surprisingly the majority were Newfs.  We all attended the regularly scheduled swim periods as well as remedial swimming.  We all were tested at various intervals but there were still many who had not passed by the time of graduation.  We were told that we would be tested later and to work on our swimming.  That never formally happened though there were a few occasions where a prerequisite for attendance on a military course or exercise was completion of the military swim test.  The non-completion of the test did not preclude me from participating in these activities.  And then over 20 years ago (Chilliwack) I again identified myself as a non/poor swimmer, though there were fewer in the category this time around.  Again I was not able to pass the swim test and again I completed the course.


----------



## armyvern

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> I don't know if the standards have changed, but it appears that application of the standards have not changed much.  I'm one of those typical non-swim capable Newfoundlanders.  Our belief is that if God had intended people to swim he would not have made the North Atlantic so cold.  And yet I had no problem going out in small boats on the great big sea or even going to the 'front' one season many years ago.  I've even been known to go into the water at the beach and splash around sufficently well that lifeguards were not overly concerned (or else they are paying more attention to those more physically attractive than me). (_cue theme music and slow-motion running scene from Baywatch_)
> 
> Over 30 years ago (Cornwallis) I was one of those who raised their hand to identify non/poor swimmers.  Not surprisingly the majority were Newfs.  We all attended the regularly scheduled swim periods as well as remedial swimming.  We all were tested at various intervals but there were still many who had not passed by the time of graduation.  We were told that we would be tested later and to work on our swimming.  That never formally happened though there were a few occasions where a prerequisite for attendance on a military course or exercise was completion of the military swim test.  The non-completion of the test did not preclude me from participating in these activities.  And then over 20 years ago (Chilliwack) I again identified myself as a non/poor swimmer, though there were fewer in the category this time around.  Again I was not able to pass the swim test and again I completed the course.



Well didn't you luck in?? Those who didn't complete the test at the last Unit we did it at ... signed their Admin action paperwork, prior to being re-tested. The difference in the outcomes, (ie loading one for a course despite them NOT having complied with the pre-reqs and the CoC signing off on it despite your failure to comply with the pre-reqs) is of course a leadership issue, and a failure of that leadership. Like I said, lucky you.

As for the Newfs and non-swimmers. I find it's very common amongst fishermen too. My uncle is a lobsterman, and his reasoning is that if she goes down in the cold Atlantic, he'd much rather go quickly drowning than by hanging around for many more minutes slowly freezing to death. To each their own, and in that respect I guess he's got a point, but he's not in the CF.


----------



## mear

"I run like the wind, but a dozen lengths of a pool still feels like a marathon to me."

I find that interesting. I'm in the same situation but reversed, I can swim forever, but put me on treadmill, it's a terrible sight. But seeing as swimming and running are both cardio, never figured out why that is.


----------



## Armymedic

Different muscles for propulsion.


----------



## armchair_throwaway

mear said:
			
		

> I find that interesting. I'm in the same situation but reversed, I can swim forever, but put me on treadmill, it's a terrible sight.



I feel the same way, but I used to compete. I also feel more sleepy and have a bigger appetite after swimming than a run.


----------



## united93

When I did that test last year, two Ocdt passed it even though they couldn't swim...probably had a lot to do with the fact that they signed in for infantry...considering CF needs those officers a lot, may be the standard is different for this MOC...who knows, right ?


----------



## Chilly

> When I did that test last year, two Ocdt passed it even though they couldn't swim...probably had a lot to do with the fact that they signed in for infantry...considering CF needs those officers a lot, may be the standard is different for this MOC...who knows, right ?




It is a CF std - the fact that they passed is on those doing the assessment, not because they were going Infantry! 

I have no idea where you get the idea that it is a different std.

Chilly


----------



## united93

I was infantry. Got that old coach for the sit-up and push-up test...I didn't do the necessary amount of push-up, and they passed me. Another Ocdt, with the same coach, 5 minutes later, didn't pass the push-up test...she had to do the re-test...her MOC: public relations.

You can choose to believe it or not...may be it's not because I was infantry and she was something else...but there was a different treatment back then...and that's a fact.

So much for CF std.


----------



## muahaha

I'm joining the armourd so what is the point of a swim test if ur not going to be around water?


----------



## united93

It beats me...but if I have to take a stab at it, my answer would be: you're a soldier first.

Doesn't matter. Just do it, like your bed with a ruler...doesn't make any sense either on the long run, but that's their idea of teaching you discipline and to work collectively as a platoon.

It's nothing but a game...just play.


----------



## kincanucks

muahaha said:
			
		

> I'm joining the armourd so what is the point of a swim test if ur not going to be around water?



Probably the same point that you have to spell properly.


----------



## aesop081

muahaha said:
			
		

> I'm joining the armourd so what is the point of a swim test if ur not going to be around water?




 :

Tanks cross rivers.....travel on floating bridges.....to get to the war you may have to travel by ship.......you may some day find yourself in a helo that has to land on a lake or such.......

Think before you speak, its free and perfectly legal !!


----------



## Wright

did i once say not try?? no i didnt, you still try your hardest, but the fact is some people are not capable of swimming like that (without more instruction) furthermore in basic, you dont get taught how to swim, not enough time, we spent 80 minutes in the pool, one class was for the test itself, and the next class was for the retest( where the people that had already passed had played Polo)

i would have to say that overall PT in basic was lacking, many people cringed at the 545 am runs around the T-parade square in borden, but those were the ones i used for myself before the ones after lunch and in the 35+humidity heat of borden (no matter what shape you are in, those are hard to judge what you need to work on). once you passed week 6 or 7 the PT really tailed off i think we had only had one or two more PT periods, for the most part because you are in the field, range was week seven, the last drill classes and field prep classes and a couple trips to the field in 8 and then straight field weeks 9 and 10, week 11 was grad week, we had one PT then but that was not PT it was PSP coming in and talkin with about  what they can improve on for the next courses and told us about PT after basic (which at CFSCE is alot of spin class in the winter lol)


----------



## Klc

And ABOVE ALL ELSE - remember to take a deep breath BEFORE jumping in the pool, rather then AS you jump in the pool. That was a quick way for me to fail my first go at it  ;D


----------



## dwalter

Hello everyone. I've been reading this thread with great interest because I have recently applied for ROTP and if all goes well will be on my IAP this summer. I can't swim, and I wanted to say thanks for the words of advice that I have read so far. As far as the passing or failing goes, I wondered if you fail the test on IAP if it will have a different result than on BMQ? I know the IAP program is designed to test potential officer cadets and so I have this feeling that failing the test on IAP may be more severe than on BMQ or the original BOTC course. Any help on this would be appreciated.


----------



## aesop081

dwalter said:
			
		

> Any help on this would be appreciated.



Go take swim lessons......that way you wont fail and the repecussions of failing wont matter.


----------



## danchapps

dwalter said:
			
		

> Hello everyone. I've been reading this thread with great interest because I have recently applied for ROTP and if all goes well will be on my IAP this summer. I can't swim, and I wanted to say thanks for the words of advice that I have read so far. As far as the passing or failing goes, I wondered if you fail the test on IAP if it will have a different result than on BMQ? I know the IAP program is designed to test potential officer cadets and so I have this feeling that failing the test on IAP may be more severe than on BMQ or the original BOTC course. Any help on this would be appreciated.



From what I noticed during my BMQ (Am still in it still, so it's fresh), the folks that failed were given swim classes to prepare them for the re-test. There were more than the 2 classes someone else mentioned (I think we had about 8 periods or so). I think with IAP they are looking for leadership potential, so my 2 cents would be, 1-yes, get some lessons, 2-don't give up during the test, try until you can do anymore. They look for those that display heart and determination. Keep your chin up and you'll do great.


----------



## flight-coropral-08

Deosnt the army teach you how to swim. When i did my basic training with the Royal Canadian Air Cadets they gave swiming lessons though i couldnt take them due to an injury.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

flight-coropral-08 said:
			
		

> Deosnt the army teach you how to swim. *When i did my basic training with the Royal Canadian Air Cadets they gave swiming lessons* though i couldnt take them due to an injury.



Reread your last.

Also for the reserves IIRC they only ones that have to pass a Swim test would be the Engineers and the Infantry just prior to doing the Assualt Boat/Water Crossing Training.


----------



## NL_engineer

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Reread your last.
> 
> Also for the reserves IIRC they only ones that have to pass a Swim test would be the Engineers and the Infantry just prior to doing the Assualt Boat/Water Crossing Training.



to add, the other combat arms may also have to do a swim test.



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Go take swim lessons......that way you wont fail and the repecussions of failing wont matter.



That is the best advise that cfan be given to you.

flight-coropral-08 please read THIS


----------



## dwalter

Well I was reading over the sample weekly training schedules on the CFLRS website for IAP and it seems like they will have some basic instruction during the first few PT sessions in the pool which makes me feel better. I definitely plan on getting to the pool sometime before my training though. One thing I thought about, I think it would make sense for the military to teach at least the basics of swimming, because what happens if a recruit comes from somewhere that doesn't have a public pool and or a local 'watering hole' to paddle around in. I'm sure there are some communities that don't have them.


----------



## aesop081

dwalter said:
			
		

> Well I was reading over the sample weekly training schedules on the CFLRS website for IAP and it seems like they will have some basic instruction during the first few PT sessions in the pool which makes me feel better.



Those are not swimming lessons.




> One thing I thought about, I think it would make sense for the military to teach at least the basics of swimming, because what happens if a recruit comes from somewhere that doesn't have a public pool and or a local 'watering hole' to paddle around in. I'm sure there are some communities that don't have them.



Following you logic, we (the CF) would have to teach people to read and write too. We dont have the time to teach every little thing.


----------



## dwalter

My mistake, I didn't notice that the first swim session was the swim test. Just with some of the descriptions on the CFLRS site is seemed like some was instructional.


----------



## aesop081

dwalter said:
			
		

> My mistake, I didn't notice that the first swim session was the swim test. Just with some of the descriptions on the CFLRS site is seemed like some was instructional.



I said it before in this thread. Go learn how to swim. That way when you get to BMQ you have one less thing to fail.

I have been on the CF rocket science course. This isnt rocket science.


----------



## benny88

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> This isnt rocket science.


  
Ha!

     Anyways, I took IAP this past summer, and the first pool session was the swim test, and the following were PT sessions (swimming lengths and what-not) HOWEVER, the people who failed the swim test used those sessions to practice some basics IIRC. Everyone on my course passed on the re-test. So there you have it: the CF does give swimming lessons.


----------



## aesop081

benny88 said:
			
		

> Ha!
> 
> Anyways, I took IAP this past summer, and the first pool session was the swim test, and the following were PT sessions (swimming lengths and what-not) HOWEVER, the people who failed the swim test used those sessions to practice some basics IIRC. Everyone on my course passed on the re-test. So there you have it: the CF does give swimming lessons.



Ok, just because i'm obviously not experienced enough to comment on anything military related :

Learn to f*****g swim BEFORE going to Basic. It will save you the embarassement of failing a test. It will save you from having a gun to your head until you pass the re-test. 

Yeah, what do i know eh ?

Edit : For the record, i failed the swim test when i went to basic. I didnt even know that there was a swim test on the course. While the rest of my course did pool PT i got yelled at alot, called alot of names and treated like shit while i swam around like a cat who fell in the family pool. Hardly what i would consider "swimming lessons". Its something i had to worry about while the rest of my course went on buisness as usual. I finaly passed the test but only by the grace of god. The pool must have been extra bouyant that day because it wasnt pretty.


----------



## flight-coropral-08

I remember someone on hear saying that only combat troops and personal like that had to do the swim test. I was wondering do sig ops have to do it as well?


----------



## aesop081

flight-corporal-08 said:
			
		

> I remember someone on *hear* HERE saying that only combat troops and personal like that had to do the swim test. I was wondering do sig ops have to do it as well?



EVERYONE does it


----------



## benny88

CDN Aviator, I'm sorry that you're not happy with my post, although it was 100% correct and gave the people looking to have questions answered on this thread additional relevant information that the thread didn't have. Your post doesn't refute, correct, agree or disagree with mine, so it's a rant. I don't think it's fair to jump all over someone who posts something legitimate.


----------



## Gatto

Just curious, how much swimming is done during infantry occupational training? Will be completing my CT shortly, and doing battle school. Not the strongest swimmer, so I'm just curious how much I should be preparing for some water-activity.


----------



## maxdupuis

Gatto said:
			
		

> Just curious, how much swimming is done during infantry occupational training? Will be completing my CT shortly, and doing battle school. Not the strongest swimmer, so I'm just curious how much I should be preparing for some water-activity.



Gatto just fit it into your fitness routine if you have access to a pool, once a week its a nice change and one day it may save your life. 

In my opinion (to those of you that cannot swim) unless someone has hydrophobia they should learn how to swim imagine being a parent take your kid to the beach, undertoe grabs them pulls them out 150 meters they aren't a strong swimmer and panicked during the undertoe and can't make it back, what do you do... you can't swim. 

Don't have kids fine replace kid above with significant other, platoon mate or best friend or what ever you would like to replace them with.  If its not to save someone else then learn to swim to save yourself, theres no way that drowning can be pleasant.  Never say never, just because your a land element does not mean you will never be near or above water theres also vacations and such.


----------



## armyvern

benny88 said:
			
		

> CDN Aviator, I'm sorry that you're not happy with my post, although it was 100% correct and gave the people looking to have questions answered on this thread additional relevant information that the thread didn't have. Your post doesn't refute, correct, agree or disagree with mine, so it's a rant. I don't think it's fair to jump all over someone who posts something legitimate.



If you read it again you'll see the gist of what he is saying is akin to the Boy Scout Motto -- I'm quite sure you've heard that -- "Be Prepared."

Just because those on YOUR course managed to pass the re-take doesn't mean they all will. What you get in Saint Jean is FAR from swimming lessons (from one who lifeguards & teachs swimming lessons ...). Those who have been in the water a few times in their life MIGHT benefit enough from those "lessons" in Saint Jean enough to pull off a pass. Then again, if they've never taken the plunge the "lessons" may not do shit for them.

But, I'll tell you what -- if your boat is sinking and you've got all your kit on --- odds are ... you're a wee bit further than 50m off the shore. Your "lessons" also happened in a POOL, as did your test. A controlled enviornment. No big waves, no currents tugging at you, the sides of the pool never more than 12m from you ... and no freaking out _too_ much because you know there's a lifeguard right there.

That's not always how it goes down in the real world (very rarely actually occurs that way --- unless it's an unattended child in a pool). If it were ... a whole lot less drownings would be occuring each and every year. 

LEARN TO SWIM FOLKS -- like has already been stated; you know it's part of your testing ... prepare for it!! THAT is what soldiers do. And that preparation may one day save your life -- because YOU may very well be the one who does NOT pass the swim test on your re-rest. Then, what you going to do? Blame the CF? Or blame yourself?


----------



## benny88

Vern,

   I never said that people shouldn't try to be prepared before they go take their swim test. I clarified questions about retests and remedial help, never once did I (as Aviator implies in his post) call into question his experience or knowledge, nor the wisdom of just taking the damn lessons before you arrive at basic and saving yourself the headache.

   I'll even agree with you in calling into question how effective those "lessons" are. They might help one pass the test but are fairly useless in an emergency. This doesn't change the fact that the question was asked, and I answered correctly that there would be a chance to work on the basics if one failed the test the first time.

   Basically, we're all on the same page about being prepared before you go being the best way. The only reason I made the post you quoted is because I felt like I was unnecessarily burned because of a relevant and correct post.

Benny


----------



## armyvern

benny88 said:
			
		

> Vern,
> 
> I never said that people shouldn't try to be prepared before they go take their swim test. I clarified questions about retests and remedial help, never once did I (as Aviator implies in his post) call into question his experience or knowledge, nor the wisdom of just taking the damn lessons before you arrive at basic and saving yourself the headache.
> 
> I'll even agree with you in calling into question how effective those "lessons" are. They might help one pass the test but are fairly useless in an emergency. This doesn't change the fact that the question was asked, and I answered correctly that there would be a chance to work on the basics if one failed the test the first time.
> 
> Basically, we're all on the same page about being prepared before you go being the best way. The only reason I made the post you quoted is because I felt like I was unnecessarily burned because of a relevant and correct post.
> 
> Benny



OK, you added "relevant" information --- that had already been provided in this thread before your post.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17795/post-653466.html#msg653466

Perhaps, just maybe, the tone of your post came off as a tad bit condescending ...



			
				benny88 said:
			
		

> Ha!
> 
> Anyways, I took IAP this past summer, and the first pool session was the swim test, and the following were PT sessions (swimming lengths and what-not) HOWEVER, the people who failed the swim test used those sessions to practice some basics IIRC. Everyone on my course passed on the re-test. So there you have it: the CF does give swimming lessons.



In your attempt to refute Cdn Aviators post to learn to swim BEFORE basic and that swimming lessons were not given. Although some very basics on "floating" and "not panicing" may have been given --- they certainly do not constitute "The CF does give swimming lessons." 

Your post that Cdn Aviator replied to (quoted above) gives a non-swimmer the impression that they shouldn't worry about the test ("HA"), because even if they can swim, they are going to then get lessons and then will more than likely pass ("everyone on my course passed on the re-test") ... which is simply not the actuality of the situation. Your post above is not 100% correct, rather it is misleading. 

So, being that the question of whether any "basic" lessons would be given had already been answered (in my link above), Cdn Aviator stressed the fact that these were not considered (nor are they) "Swimming Lessons" --- to which you posted that "HA... they DO get swimming lessons." That's not the case by a long shot.

Now, I've stepped in to clarify once more.

Boys & Girls: If you are a non-swimmer ... learn to swim OR get at least get yourself some swimming lessons BEFORE you report to Saint Jean. It may one day save your life or someone else's ... and your successful completion of BMQ/BOTP (thus your _career_) may also depend on it. DO NOT take for granted that the "lessons" provided over 6 short sessions will be enough to allow you to pass the CF Swim Test on a re-test just because all the troops on some other BMQ/BOTP managed to pass after these "lessons" ... done in the water with your combats on. Be Prepared.

Clear enough?


----------



## Petra

Just out of curiosity, for the reserve swim test...do they provide you with a bathing suit or do you have to bring your own? If you have to bring your own, is a wet suit/body suit okay? [I'm pretty uncomfortable in bikinies and normal bathyng suites...i always were shorts]

And since we are on the 'providing' topic, do they also provide running shoes? I heard both that they do and don't. I have yet to receive my 'what to bring' sheet and am doing BMQ this July.

Once again, this is for the reserves

thanks


----------



## AlphaQup

HighlandFusilier said:
			
		

> There is a swim test which you have to do.
> 
> It consists of jumping off a 5m diving board with life jacket on, then swim to the end. About 50m.
> 
> *Second part is jumping in the water from the end of the pool, tread water for two minutes, then swim to the other end.*
> 
> I didn‘t swam for like 8 years and had trouble. Luckily I was able to use flipper board thingy.
> 
> My advice is to take some swimming lessons.
> 
> I hate swimming.


I totally agree with you. I'm actually a decent swimmer but I can not tread water if my life depended on it.


----------



## GAP

AlphaQup said:
			
		

> I totally agree with you. I'm actually a decent swimmer but I can not tread water if my life depended on it.



Google Drownproofing.....We were taught it in USMC....excellent way to stay afloat. (Can be practised in your local pool)

http://www.drownproofing.com/


----------



## benny88

Petra said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, for the reserve swim test...do they provide you with a bathing suit or do you have to bring your own? If you have to bring your own, is a wet suit/body suit okay? [I'm pretty uncomfortable in bikinies and normal bathyng suites...i always were shorts]
> 
> 
> thanks



May be too late to help, but if the instructors are thinking, they will not allow you to wear a wet suit, as it is buoyant.


----------



## Timex

jacksparrow, that's the attitude that's going to get you through your military career. You know what has to be done and you're willing to put in the work to get it done! I wish you the best of luck. 

Now for some of the rest of you. You're going to get tested in basic so prepare for it. Don't make the mistake of thinking well " buddy said it was ok for guys on his course to fail, so then I'll get the same consideration". There's at least two things wrong with that thought process. Number one, you don't get to decide what soldier skills you really need. That's not one the lessons your course staff wants you to absorb.  Two, despite my beloved Military's love for uniformity no two courses are ever alike. With you're luck you're going to get on the "one". Where they decided the day you show up for the test, that anyone who can not achieve the coveted P, will not be showing up on the grad parade with their platoon mates. Explain that to all the people who showed up to your big send off back home!

If you're still with me here's some advice. There's a difference between being what people would call being swimmer and being able to pass the military swim test. No one is telling you need to be able to do the Ironman triathlon. But if you don't make a bit of effort to give yourself the skill sets to pass the swim test, even if you do slide through Basic, you'll limit yourself later on from taking part in some of the most rewarding things you can do while in the Military regardless of your MOC, Adventure training, Scuba courses Para course, or even the fun filled Ironman/Mountain man competitions. 

There's half a dozen descriptions of the test on this tread. It's not hard and the pass rate is pretty high. Be like Jack, do yourself a favour and show up ready for the test.


----------



## Celticgirl

jacksparrow said:
			
		

> What does tread water mean?



It means keeping yourself afloat in one place (in deep water). Your arms and legs move while your body is in a vertical position (as opposed to a horizontal swimming position). I'll have to go back to the beginning of this thread to see how many minutes you need to do this for, but it's usually 2 or 3 minutes. If you are just learning, I recommend treading water with a life jacket the first several times you attempt it. 

Edit: It's 2 minutes.


----------



## Springroll

Don't worry about the swim test. If you are a weak swimmer, they will have you close to the side of the pool. 
You will not be recoursed for "failing" this test, you just do seperate swim lessons when the stronger swimmers are doing other exercises in the pool. You will have to retake the test later on in your course though (was week 10 when I was there).

It is not a test I would be worried about if I were you. I am a weak swimmer. They taught me(as well as the other weak swimmers) some techniques that made it easier for us to tread water with little energy being expended.

Good luck and have fun!


----------



## Scfs123

Firstly! Yes these questions are probably answered in other threads, the threads i keep finding tend to be 2004-2007, So i figured it couldn't hurt just to ask for an up to date response

Simply Put, i've been cruising around websites for the army just getting knowledge of what i am getting my self into. 
I AM CONFUSED BEYOND BELIEF. Which is fine since ya'know recruitment process seems simple enough provided your not crazy.

But i do have a few questions that would help clear up a bit of confusion.
A) Swim Test. Is it mandatory to know how to swim?
I've applied for Infantry soldier, Now there is one site saying its needed, another site saying nothing about swimming, and then there is the forums where there is a thread about the swimming where some people are saying folks were kicked out for not being able to do it, and others saying "Heyyyy, its no biggy you just get laughed at." I hate water, never learned how to swim, obviously i was going to bite my tongue and go play in some water if its what it takes to get the job i want(Hell i'll still probably do it as an excuse just to have the knowledge of how to do it.) But would love an answer if its mandatory or not.

B) The Physical Training test. Is a pre-enrollment test still in use for those applying to full time? 
I was under the impression i was going to have to do the 20 situps/20 pushups / Grip test /  1.5mile timed run before i'd be enrolled into BMQ? 
Been seeing some information on these forums stating it was at BMQ now that the test was done(Which with how hard boot camp gets you into shape would be easy peasy!) I am in half decent shape but not up to par on the run yet, so just has me curious if i have longer to pace myself into it, or if i gotta work myself harder to get ready for a "SUPRISE Physical Test Appointment YOU RUN NOW!" sorta thing.

Again apologys for repeat questions, the threads i found on them seemed a bit old / inconclusive. 

p.s
I know i could ask a recruiter . . But i feel embarassed asking questions about physical fitness when i'm applying to the armed forces.
"Be as fit as you can be! Physical fitness is key! Aim higher!"
Durr hey recruiter, dus i has 2 swim? How aboot dat trainin thingy? Duz i has to do it now? I can'ts run it yet.
Maybe after interview and what not i'll feel more comfortable talking with them, but until then i shall bug you kind folk!

Thanks ya for reading.


----------



## commingsoon

Well I know for sure that you only do the fitness test when you get to boot camp that is for regular force. If you don't pass you go into a sort of gym class for a while. You could get more info on forces.ca and speak to a recruiter there they will let you download a page regarding fitness test.
For the swimming part well from my knowledge you should learn to swim before but I know some people who didn't know and they were put in a different section when swimming came so they would learn but when I say didn't know how to swim they pretty much tested them to see if they sank or swim.
Overall you should be in the best shape possible when you enroll as it may keep you back for some things.
Good luck


----------



## Timex

I spent a lot of time yesterday reading over a lot of those posts WRT the swim test and I can see what you mean. I don't know what the drill is for the Reserves all I can speak to is what is expected for the Regular Force.

1. Yes you will have to do the military swim test at BMQ. To earn a pass you need to be able to step off the 3M diving board wearing a lifejacket and combat uniform, no boots!, and then swim to the end of the pool. No points for style, just get yourself to the end. It's bulky in the life jacket so a combination of dog paddle and what ever else you do in the water will get you there. Next part is without the lifejacket. Jump in and tread water for 2 min then swim to the end of the pool. Again no points for style do your dog paddle, frog kick, side stroke, what ever gets you to the end.
 So having said all that I think you should take the time to get in the water and learn to swim. A basic learn to swim class would prepare you for what's coming. Not only physically but mentally it's one less thing to stress about. So tip the odds in your favour. 
Something else to think about is a soldier who can't pass the swim test is limiting him or herself from some good opportunities in the future. You will see the swim test again as a prerequisite for many courses and pretty much any adventure training trips that involve water, IE canoeing or rafting with your buds. 

2. Yes you will do the pre enrollment PT test as you stated. And as an added bonus you will  be tested again in BMQ. Allot of donuts can go down range between when you do that prelim and when they get their mitts on you at recruit training. 

3. Don't be afraid to ask the recruiter anything they're there for you. 

Best of luck you're in for a great ride.


----------



## joonrooj

For those who are wondering:
To my knowledge, reservists do not do the swim test on BMQ or SQ, I know you have to do it on your BIQ however; other trades courses might require you to as well.
Also, on my course, a fail in the swim test meant RTU.


----------



## jacksparrow

I didn't do too good at my swimming class yesterday, and I left feeling dejected.  When I had the flippers on my feet and a noodle around me, I was able to swim backwards, but as soon as they came off, I just couldn't keep my legs straight and toes pointed out.

I do have a problem with my body tensing up, always have. One minute am stretching my legs out with toes pointed forward in order to stroke so I can move, and then my knees start to bend.

Do you guys think the back stroke is my best bet to get through this test, or should I concentrate on front stroke? If front stroke, what will be the best style for me? Someone suggested the frog style, they said it might be better for me because of the way the leg moves?


----------



## observor 69

Couple of unofficial quick thoughts.

1. Work on whatever it takes to become more comfortable in the water.
2.  IMHO breast stroke would be the easiest stroke to master if your goal is to make it to the other end of the pool.

Hang in there, humans are very adaptable creatures.


----------



## Timex

You did better in your swim class than everyone who didn't train!

I agree with the last poster work on what makes you the most comfortable. Brest stroke with a frog kick is pretty relaxing.


----------



## jacksparrow

Thanks Timex! I had the 2 best teachers ever yesterday, my wife and 12yr old daughter, even our 2 month old baby came along. They got me doing the breast stroke from one end of the pool in the shallow end to the other, we spent 3hrs there, as it was family day swimming at the pool.

We came to the conclusion that the breast stroke will be the ideal one for me for now, as I was able to move myself forward after getting the coordination down to a point. It's amazing watching my 12yr old flipping back and forth, and saying dad this how you do it and  even stretching my arms to the side and then bring them in like a chicken wing before pushing myself forward.

The only thing I still wasn't doing right yesterday, was the breathing, I was taking in water because I tend to want to move too quick, when I wasn't using the "noodle" for bouyancy.

Honestly....I think have made some progress and I'll just like to thank everyone that has been a part of helping me!

God Bless

PS: Even after basic training, I plan to continue and be good at this.


----------



## observor 69

Jack S isn't there a treed water component to the test also? 
Working on that?


----------



## danchapps

Jack S, props to you for taking the initiative on this one. Some folks just show up and hope they pass, it's nice to see the effort put forth prior to you showing up. Good on you.


----------



## Timex

Bet the family is exited helping you along, they're going to love it the night you phone home and tell them you passed the test. You are going to have to master treading water as well, take a look on youtube there's some good video on the technique. Don't get hung up on that egg beater leg kick, takes a long time to perfect. When you practice don't do marathon sessions. Just do it for a little while and then move on to your breast stroke, you'll get the feel better each time if you're fresh. 

Keep up the good work.


----------



## jacksparrow

Went for 1 of my twice a week swimming classes yesterday. I was told my breast stroke which I only started learning on Saturday thanks to my wife and daughter, is getting better   I just need to perfect the leg a bit more and remember to stretch my arms out to the fullest before I start another forward movement.

I was also taken to the DEEP end and told to jump in with a life jacket on, it was scary but I did it twice, taking water into my mouth both times, I guess I should close my mouth, relax and just let the jacket bring me back up? 

I am enjoying it to be honest, but just need to work on my breathing techniques and learn to relax. My body is just too tense, always has been.


----------



## observor 69

You are on the right path Jackie me boy!!  ;D


----------



## Strike

Hey Jack, keep up with the lessons.  They can only help.  When you start working on treading water I'd suggest that you try and use the floatie belts that go around your waist.  It will keep your head above water and won't hinder your arms when you're practicing.  They also require a little more work to stay upright. which will really help in getting the "feel" of your body and what you need to do when you're swimming.

Keep us updated.  It's always good to hear how people are progressing while working towards their goals.


----------



## jacksparrow

Strike said:
			
		

> Hey Jack, keep up with the lessons.  They can only help.  When you start working on treading water I'd suggest that you try and use the floatie belts that go around your waist.  It will keep your head above water and won't hinder your arms when you're practicing.  They also require a little more work to stay upright. which will really help in getting the "feel" of your body and what you need to do when you're swimming.
> 
> Keep us updated.  It's always good to hear how people are progressing while working towards their goals.



Funny you should mention the belt, my wife suggested that on Saturday when she was teaching me, but 1 of the lifeguards there was suggesting otherwise


----------



## jacksparrow

Well folks....as well the group beginners class am taking, I met up with a personal swim coach yesterday. She asked to see what have learned so far, and it seems that have gone from not knowing how to swim at all in under 1 month to going halfway of 25m pool that comes right up to my neck, doing breaststroke without breathing and a life jacket.

I have also jumped in with a life jacket 4 times in the deep end, just to assure myself that I can jump into the deep, but it's once am in there that seems to be the hardest. The personal coach corrected the frog movement with my legs, but it looks like I have one weak leg.

I still can't tread water, seem to be finding it hard to just stay vertical whilst doing the bicycle kicks or the frog kicks. I printed out what is expected of me and gave it to the coach just so she can know what am going to be taking on. I am enjoying it, I just hope I can get the treading bit perfected before st jean


----------



## jacksparrow

I did good at swimming today, with the help of a life jacket, I swam on my back the length of the pool ( 25m ) and back, which is one of the test we are going to have to do for the forces basic training. So am confident that I can swim the 50m part of the test, and for the 20m somersault, I'll just do breaststroke.


I am jumping from the 3m board on Monday, and am yet to get a grip on treading. The instructor said I should be proud of myself, but am my own worst critic. I guess looking back at 3 weeks ago, I couldn't even swim 1 iota, and now am moving


----------



## Timex

And three weeks from now you'll be treading water, and sure It won't be pretty, but you'll look back at this week and think the same thing.

You know I bet Ronaldo can't tread water either!


----------



## jacksparrow

Timex said:
			
		

> And three weeks from now you'll be treading water, and sure It won't be pretty, but you'll look back at this week and think the same thing.
> 
> You know I bet Ronaldo can't tread water either!




Thanks for the encouragement. As an Arsenal fan true and true, I despise Ronaldo  ;D One week he is in Italy lapping it up and then the following week he is in crutches.

I guess you can't dive in crutches.


----------



## point59

Being a former lifeguard myself, my advice to you is to take basic lessons for a couple of weeks so you get the proper knowledge of how to float, thread water and swim. This will boost your confidence of being in the water and will show you the proper techniques. You don't need to be a pro at this. All you need to know is the basics and it's something you never forget after years of not swimming. So it's a 'win-win' situation for you. Also, best of luck


----------



## jacksparrow

I'll like to thank everyone that made an input into my saga of not being able to swim. I can't thank you all enough for all the encouragement and pointers you had for me, I couldn't have come this far without you lot!  

As of today July 30th 2008, I can now jump from the 3m board with life jacket on and swim on my back the 50m, somesault into the pool and swim 20m doing breast stroke. I did the 3m board jump twice this past monday and somesaulted twice in from the side.

My only achilles hill now is the treading, but I have private lesson booked for next week, which is when I'll be done at my current job. I need the private lessons and I think it's going to be money well spent.

For those that haven't followed my plight, when I first posted in this thread, I couldn't swim at all, I have come a long way since with weeks.

Thanks again....back to my running for the 20m shuttle run now  ;D


----------



## forza_milan

I am yet another potential member of the CF family who is taking steps to be a competent swimmer before training. It is definitely embarrassing because I am competitive by nature but being in a pool where everyone is swimming and I am struggling to tread water is a blow to the ego  But it's a learning experience and I should use it to encourage me and not discourage me. 

I was wondering if anyone has tried the _Total Immersion_ technique of swimming?

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/08/13/total-immersion-how-i-learned-to-swim-effortlessly-in-10-days-and-you-can-too/

There are a few books and DVD's by the developer of this style Terry Laughlin (a quick search on Amazon will find them), and according to that blog post, it seems to help people who are not the best swimmers become fairly competent. If anyone has experience with this, I would love to hear some feedback. Thanks


----------



## R. Jorgensen

I rarely go swimming, I have a self-inflicted fear of deep water; the thought of drowning - the thought of gurgling and gasping for air but only to inhale water makes me panic.

I took Army Cadet Leader Instructor - Drill and Ceremonial and we did the part of the test where the person(s) somersaults into the pool, treads water for (1 min or 2?) and then swim from Deep end to Shallow; the Platoon WO observes and grades swimming strength.

Our Platoon had the following grading system:

Fail (jump in and touches side wall or does not attempt), Weak (if 50% was Pass, this would be 49.5, rounded to a pass), Weak to Moderate (55%), Moderate (65%), Moderate to Strong (75%), and Strong (85%+)

I passed with Weak to Moderate however I was told that I was very close to Weak or even a Fail. I think it my be hereditary, my father did the swim test back in the 80's and barely passed - they put him in RSI (Remedial Swimming Instruction). The scary part is - I took lessons and I'm still petrified.


----------



## Biathloneil

Total Immersion is a fine group to work with. Their information and pedagogy is sound (challenged by some) but generally yields the best results if you can take a TI clinic. TI is geared toward Triathlon and Hi-Performance swimming so it may or may not be your thing based on athletic ability and personal goals. It takes at least a year of swimming twice a week to feel comfortable in open water and two years to be competent. Work on being a good floater with sleek vessel shape and a relaxed and regular breathing (remember running+breathing) pattern. You'll swim just as well in 3 ft of water as 33 ft so log a lot of pool time and practice perfect technique every time (taught by a competent-certified instructor/coach). Get in a group or a lesson and swim, swim , swim, and smile while you're doing it as you'll me the most helpful of people at the pool.

-Neil in Lunenburg


----------



## namal24

My two older siblings are in the army, and they told me not to worry about the swim test, because they didnt have to do it??  ???
and i suck at swimming  :-[


----------



## danchapps

namal24 said:
			
		

> My two older siblings are in the army, and they told me not to worry about the swim test, because they didnt have to do it??  ???
> and i suck at swimming  :-[



Where were they that they didn't have to do it? It's mandatory to be able to complete it while in BMQ in St-Jean, unless your siblings are in the reserves. I'm not sure how they work, however I believe they may have to do it. Swimming, it's a great skill to have.


----------



## namal24

yes, that's probably because they were in the reserves  :
 ;D


----------



## stealthylizard

Had to do it when I was in the Reserves back in '96.  Have to do it in BMQ for Reg Force.  However, the last I heard, you didn't have to pass the swim test to finish BMQ, but you did have to for SQ/BIQ.  Clarify any recent changes.


----------



## R. Jorgensen

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> Had to do it when I was in the Reserves back in '96.  Have to do it in BMQ for Reg Force.  However, the last I heard, you didn't have to pass the swim test to finish BMQ, but you did have to for SQ/BIQ.  Clarify any recent changes.



I do realize the importance of having the swimming skills that are tested (bailing out from a troop carrier in the middle of the ocean, jumping out from an assault boat, etc.) however regardless of the importance, I don't think I would be able to pass it.

Is there any chance that it would differ for Armoured Crewman (00005 - Primary Reserve)? Maybe I'll just have to suck it up and do the best I can.


----------



## stealthylizard

For the Reg Force, they do give those that fail the test, swimming lessons wiht another re-test later on towards the end of BMQ.  I don't know how it works on PRes anymore.  While you have the chance, if possible, go to your local pool and enroll in swimming classes.  The test really doesn't involve a lot of skill, as long as you can keep calm and level headed.  Most of it is done with a life jacket on, so as long as you can tread water for a couple minutes you shouldn't have a problem.  

Most important, listen to the instructions they give you for the test, and follow them to the letter.  PSP staff run it, and they can be real SOB's at times.  They failed a few people for the swim test on my battle school course for not doing a flip/somersault into the water as instructed, and they weren't allowed to redo it.  Despite an interesting jacking up from our CSM, and other officers present, PSP staff don't have to follow military orders as they are civilians.


----------



## R. Jorgensen

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> For the Reg Force, they do give those that fail the test, swimming lessons wiht another re-test later on towards the end of BMQ.  I don't know how it works on PRes anymore.  While you have the chance, if possible, go to your local pool and enroll in swimming classes.  The test really doesn't involve a lot of skill, as long as you can keep calm and level headed.  Most of it is done with a life jacket on, so as long as you can tread water for a couple minutes you shouldn't have a problem.
> 
> Most important, listen to the instructions they give you for the test, and follow them to the letter.  PSP staff run it, and they can be real SOB's at times.  They failed a few people for the swim test on my battle school course for not doing a flip/somersault into the water as instructed, and they weren't allowed to redo it.  Despite an interesting jacking up from our CSM, and other officers present, PSP staff don't have to follow military orders as they are civilians.



To be honest, it's really only the flip/somersault that really hits me hard. When I did the tread and swim to end of pool portion as a cadet at the Vernon Army Cadet Summer Training Centre I was able to tread and swim, I was a little panicky and nervous but nothing too serious, but I did not flip/somersault into the pool like instructed. All I did was jump straight in, nobody really cared (then again it seems like everybody [cadets] in Cadets doesn't take anything seriously).


----------



## Azizti

About the swimming test... You have your jumping with a life jacket and swimming, and the summersault + staying up in water for 2 minutes.
If you pass those 2 tests, is that the only time you go swimming during your BQM ? Or you go swimming as PT also ?
It's not never clear, could someome let me know ?  
Cheers


----------



## danchapps

Azizti said:
			
		

> About the swimming test... You have your jumping with a life jacket and swimming, and the summersault + staying up in water for 2 minutes.
> If you pass those 2 tests, is that the only time you go swimming during your BQM ? Or you go swimming as PT also ?
> It's not never clear, could someome let me know ?
> Cheers



It is clear if you read back a few pages. There is quite some chat about it in the thread. Take apeek and let me know if you can't find it.


----------



## stealthylizard

To answer quickly, yes, you do some swimming for PT.  First time I had ever started to sweat in a swimming pool with the exception of hot springs.


----------



## Chops

Swimming:  Right from the army.gc.ca web-site.  

During Basic Training, you must also meet the military swim standard. The test consists of jumping off a three-metre board wearing a life jacket, then swimming 50 metres. You must also somersault into the water without a life jacket, tread water for two minutes, then swim 20 metres. If you cannot swim now, you are advised to take a basic swimming course before proceeding on training.

Success on basic training depends on your individual effort and contribution to the team. If you are constantly tired during training because you are out of shape, you will not learn as much, you will not do as well on the exercises, and you will not be a strong team member. So when you come to Basic Training, it is important for you to be as fit as you can.


----------



## starseed

Azizti said:
			
		

> About the swimming test... You have your jumping with a life jacket and swimming, and the summersault + staying up in water for 2 minutes.



You have to do a somersault?  

How does one actually do a somersault? I don't think I've ever done one of those. Now I'm going to have nightmares about failing a swim test not because I can't swim but because I couldn't do the damn somersault...


----------



## PMedMoe

starseed said:
			
		

> You have to do a somersault?
> 
> How does one actually do a somersault? I don't think I've ever done one of those. Now I'm going to have nightmares about failing a swim test not because I can't swim but because I couldn't do the damn somersault...



IIRC, you do the somersault off the deep end (not in the water) to disorient yourself a bit on entry.


----------



## danchapps

starseed said:
			
		

> How does one actually do a somersault?



Well, you step up to the edge of the pool, kinda crouch down a bit, lean your head towards the inside of your knees (helps protect the melon), and simply roll yourself forward. Try to push off with your legs to get some distance between yourself and the edge of the pool. The momentum of your body rolling will allow you to finish the somersault in the water (under the water). It's really not a hard move, and the staff always demonstrates it for safety.

If you have concerns and have access to a local pool, or even a pool with PSP staff, then ask if they can go over it with ou if you are that concerned.

Best of luck.


----------



## shadowkila

The swim test is fairly difficult, especially if your not a great swimmer, but with the proper technique it's not that bad. First of all you are wearing your combat's, which as you can imagine get quite heavy when wet. Just make sure you tie all the string's on your uniform tight and have a good belt.

 I failed my test on the first try, but with some advice from the psp staff, I completed the swim test without difficulty on the second attempt.

 First of all, don't panic when you a treading water for 2 minutes, sway your arm's back and fourth and kick your feet and try and float on your back to make it abit easier and stay calm!

After the 2 minutes of treading water is finished, don't just try and swim the rest of the distance, it'll feel like your not even moving and you'll be exhausted really quickly . Swim on your back , bring your arm's up your body without causing too much resistance in the water and push down while kicking your feet the whole time and you should have no problem.

 Hope that makes sense and helps someone out with the swim test.


----------



## CEEBEE501

Would combats include the boots?


----------



## updatelee

CEEBEE501 said:
			
		

> Would combats include the boots?



no,

bathing suit, combat pants, combat shirt and thats it.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Mine was combats complete (including socks) minus boots


----------



## kincanucks

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Do you have to shower with soap? Or just water? Also what soap is better bar or liquid?
> 
> 
> >



Soap is not required and don't forget to brush your teeth in the morning.  ;D


----------



## IntelGirl

Not being able to swim is no embarrassing situation - there are plenty of people who cannot swim. I would say just enroll in a basic swimming program and tell them you need to learn the basics. 

I was training for the olympics in swimming before I got pregnant at the age of 15...and swimming can be very scary at times for those who are just learning, but it's such a great asset to have. Good luck!


----------



## spamoli

are both parts of the swim test done in combats? on forces.ca it mentions a life jacket for the 50m test, yet treading water for two minutes, dressed in fatigues, with no life jacket doesn't sound like a bucket of fun.


----------



## aesop081

spamoli said:
			
		

> doesn't sound like a bucket of fun.



Nobody said it was supposed to be fun.


----------



## danchapps

spamoli said:
			
		

> are both parts of the swim test done in combats? on forces.ca it mentions a life jacket for the 50m test, yet treading water for two minutes, dressed in fatigues, with no life jacket doesn't sound like a bucket of fun.



To elaborate on this a little further... Yes, both parts of the swim test are in combats. 

Part one involves the somersault into the deep end, then tread water for 2 minutes. If memory serves me correctly you then swim 50m to the middle part of the pool (there is a deck half way down the pool, plus you are within reach of the side of the pool). 

Part two of the swim test is wearing a PFD, climbing the 3m diving board, and jumping off into the water. Now, to take this part a little further, this isn't a cannon ball jump. You are shown the proper technique to do this jump. It is arms across the chest holding the PFD in place (so as not to choke you out), step off of the end of the diving board (don't worry about the height, it's 3 metres, and you are wearing a PFD!), take a quick deep breath as you leave the diving board, cross your feet at the ankle, enjoy the drop. When your body pops out of the water you must have a clenched fist above your head with your arm straight up.

The purpose of part one is to see if you can maintain floating for 2 minutes, I would guess that this is in case you wind up in a situation down the road where you may need to keep afloat, For example a vehicle hits water and you need to tread, you fall off of a boat and you need to tread, you fall off a bridge and you need to tread. You get the picture.

Part two is to simulate a possible evacuation from a ship. In this case you would be wearing a PFD prior to having to jump from the deck. The fist over your head is meant to act as a deflector for any debris that is in the water above you when you emerge from the depths. This prevents you knocking yourself out on a chunk of floating lumber for example.


I hope this helps you out, and should pretty much cover most of the questions about the swim test.


Oh, and yes, you have to shower before entering the pool, even with the combats on! (Especially with combats on!)


----------



## armychick2009

Hey Chapeski! You almost sound like you know what you're doing. You must have had an excellent older sister who may one day sound like SHE sorta knows what she's doing in the army too  Not too much longer hopefully....


----------



## danchapps

armychick2009 said:
			
		

> Hey Chapeski! You almost sound like you know what you're doing. You must have had an excellent older sister who may one day sound like SHE sorta knows what she's doing in the army too  Not too much longer hopefully....



Well, now that you mention it I do have 2 excellent older sisters, however, my knowledge comes from first hand experience. That and the swim tests don't always stop after you complete BMQ. Just a couple of weeks ago I had to complete another swim test just to go on adventure training. The key to success is to not over think the tasks/tests. As for this one, it is easiest to float on your back as yo are doing the treading water, and keep your head above water. It's not as easy to tread water in uniform as it is in a bathing suit, however it's not an impossible task.

Keep your hard work up and you'll be sure to go far. A positive attitude is the key to success.


----------



## Doom

chapeski, i failed my swim test the first time through ahah, i'm not the greatest swimmer. but i got it the second time. one thing to remember, if you're not a good swimmer is to float on your back. if your not that good at treading water like myself. PSP staff will tell you of course its legit as long as your keep your head out of the water, you will be fine. For me though the back floating turned into fubar pretty fast as my buttons on my combats came undone (its 2 sizes bigger than I am I swear) and when thosee combats are wet dang they add some extra weight, so keep that in mind people


----------



## natalie23

Hi,

I start basic training on Nov 9,09! I've been working alot  on my chin-ups and push-ups , I find these exercises most difficult!  Also , on the Forces.ca website diff pop ups come up providing tidbits of info about  the Navy , Airforce and Army, there was one that got my attention , "Did you know that you don't have to know to swim to join the Navy"! I'm just wondering if a swim test is still part of training?


               Thank You!


----------



## PMedMoe

As far as I know, the swim test is still done on BMQ.  Don't worry, they teach you everything you need to know.


----------



## Cadaren

downrightGuppy said:
			
		

> chapeski, i failed my swim test the first time through ahah, i'm not the greatest swimmer. but i got it the second time. one thing to remember, if you're not a good swimmer is to float on your back. if your not that good at treading water like myself. PSP staff will tell you of course its legit as long as your keep your head out of the water, you will be fine. For me though the back floating turned into fubar pretty fast as my buttons on my combats came undone (its 2 sizes bigger than I am I swear) and when thosee combats are wet dang they add some extra weight, so keep that in mind people



Also remember to tie up the bottom of the pants, it helps a lot. Also do up the wrists to the tightest button.


----------



## Dean22

One of the exercises I do to help treading power and length is I tread with a 10 lb disc in the water for as long as I can and keep my shoulders out of the water.

Floating has always been easy for me but I am not sure how that will be if it's done in combats as I have never tried to float with clothing on but I think it'll be alright since I can float sitting up in the pool and float without arms and legs.


----------



## JS_ibanez

forgive me if this is a silly question. I've noticed a number of people saying you have to do a somersault during the swim test. Why?


----------



## dangerboy

JS_ibanez said:
			
		

> forgive me if this is a silly question. I've noticed a number of people saying you have to do a somersault during the swim test. Why?


Simple answer because you are told to. It is part of the test, sometimes in the military you just do what you are told to do and don't spends hours questioning and wondering "why".


----------



## PMedMoe

JS_ibanez said:
			
		

> forgive me if this is a silly question. I've noticed a number of people saying you have to do a somersault during the swim test. Why?



I think the somersault is to see how you react when disoriented.  After all, if you fell of a ship, it might be head first, so they want to see how quickly you can orient yourself.


----------



## JS_ibanez

that makes sense i guess. thanks for the answers guys. much appreciated.


----------



## WSaunders

so ive gathered there is a basic swimming test in BMQ. im confident i can do that. but is there a harder swimming test for BIQ? im only 15 and still have time to learn more if i need to. could anyone enlighten me? im already worried about the physical aspect of BIQ.


----------



## landspeed

are all the swim tests done fully clothed?


----------



## PMedMoe

Some are done just with bathing suits, others with combat shirt and pants.


----------



## landspeed

ty, as a hairy guy i can say im not a fan of that aha


----------



## George Wallace

Guys

Once again, if you missed or just outright ignored the numerous links provided on the site, you should watch this video for an indication of what you may face if you don't honour the criteria for joining this site.  

You should have read the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines when you registered for the site......and not ignored them.


----------



## Luke O

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Guys
> 
> Once again, if you missed or just outright ignored the numerous links provided on the site, you should watch this video for an indication of what you may face if you don't honour the criteria for joining this site.



That video should be mandatory to sign up to a forum.


----------



## ShawnHartwell

While waiting for the bus back from my Recruitment Centre a man noticed me carrying the "Forces.ca" folder. He asked me if I was joining the Army and I told him Navy. He had actually been in the CF and gone to the MEGA. He told me a bit about how it goes,etc and told me one thing I could do is go buy CADPAT Pants(I have a surplus store here that supports the CF) and to go tread water wearing them at one of the local gyms.

Is this good advice? He said that it will be part of the MEGA. Although he seems to have been out of the CF now so things could have changed at the MEGA.

EDIT: DAMN IT! Stupid internet lagged and made me post this in recruiting section. Sorry.


----------



## Michael OLeary

There is a basic swim test:

*Basic Military Swimming Standard Test (BMSS)*
http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/Fitness/doclib/BMSS%20Procedure.doc (PDF)

Which includes:



> Item #3  - RUDIMENTARY SWIMMING SKILLS
> 
> Dressed in coveralls execute a forward roll entry into the deep end of the pool.  Hands on both sides of the head, elbows to knees, and roll forward into the water.
> 
> Surface, and remain afloat for at least 2 (two) minutes using any combination of floatation skills such as treading water, motionless float, swimming in place etc… as long as the members head stays above water.
> 
> Then, swim a distance of at least 20 (twenty) metres using any style of propulsion



Also note this:



> Remember non-swimmers do not have to attempt Item #3 of the test unless they believe they can achieve it.




Buying a pair of combat pants to practice treading water is not the best use of your time or money.

*NOTE:

The above was found within 2 minutes by a simple Google search for - canadian forces swim test

Before you post your next simple question - please exhaust your Google and site searches first.*


----------



## McG

Further to the above, authentic CADPAT clothing must be destroyed when the CF is done with it and the manufactures are not authorized to sell to anyone other than the CF.  If you buy CADPAT clothing, you are spending money on fakes or items which illicitly entered the market.


----------



## armychick2009

You could practise in any kind of clothing you like -- when I did my test it was with giant, oversized coveralls... it's not so much the type of material you wear as opposed to just getting used to the fact you ARE wearing clothing in water. I spoke with the local YMCA and they said I could go in with the clothing, as long as the lifeguards on duty were okay with it. I've done it a few times before in my lifeguarding courses.... and once through a CF-based training exercise. 

My suggestion is just get used to treading water itself for an extended period of time (I dunno, say 5 or 10 minutes?) with just your regular bathing suit. I found that those who couldn't swim well in regular conditions, had difficulty with it... they weren't having so much difficulty WITH the clothes on, as they were having just doing treading water in the first place AND for longer than a minute or two.  Also, get used to lugging your body out of the water onto a pool deck without pushing yourself off of the ground or the side, as that's a no-no. 

Finally, if you DO have problems during your test, don't look down or forwards but glance up to the roof if you can -- it'll keep you more steady. Anyways, not really sure if that answered your question or not but -- don't sweat it too much (unless you can't swim at all, then maybe look at getting some lessons!).


----------



## CorporalMajor

If you can swim competently in swimtrunks, you can tread water in CADPAT.

The boots, I found, are the only *somewhat* difficult part.  Good luck getting into your local pool wearing those.  

Just work on becoming a really good swimmer as it is, and then you should be fine.


----------



## Chilme

As an FYI, CF policy indicates that the Basic Military Swim Standard (BMSS) test is simply an indicator of swimming ability.  It required that ALL CF members conduct the test prior to any training or exercises near or around water.  Passing the test allows you to work on or around water with no issues.  Failing the test means you can work on or around water, you just need to be clearly labelled as a weak swimmer.  Often it just means you have 2 glow sticks stuck to you instead of one.


----------



## Vimy_gunner

Haha, that video is hilarious! 

Btw, one of the best ways to increase cardiovascular fitness is by swimming. It has been proven that consistent swimmers throughout their life live longer than even runners. Partly due to the fact that running causes more injuries and even if you're injured you can still swim. The reason why I mention this is that if you want to kill two birds with one stone (prep for swim test and improved fitness) you may want to include lap swimming in your weekly training regiment. Swimming also works two very key muscle components used for push-ups. Shoulders and a smaller muscle on the outside of your pecs (it's the one that makes you look really sexy to the ladies, lol.) This is also the reason why women absolutely love swimmers bodies. You can google what it is if you like because I can't remember, but pushups and swimming are virtually the only two ways to isolate work on that muscle group. Swimming also aids in your breathing recovery because it simply makes your heart work harder!  Join a swim team like I did even and swim 5-8 hrs a week. You'll find that by doing this you make push-ups easier and treading water for two minutes will feel like a breeze. I'm assuming the problem with most if they have issues with the swim test is not due to fitness but more due to the fact that they hardly spend any time in the water. 
You swim enough and you'll be treading water for two minutes in between your drills.


----------



## Chilme

landspeed said:
			
		

> are all the swim tests done fully clothed?



There are 3 official swim tests done by the CF.  

1) The Basic Military Swim Standard, which is required to work on or around water.
http://canadianmilitaryandefence.blogspot.com/2010/09/basic-military-swim-standard-bmss-test.html

2) The Combat Swim Test, which is part of the CSOR Applicant test.
http://canadianmilitaryandefence.blogspot.com/2010/09/canadian-special-operations-regiment_07.html

3) The 3rd is a 675m timed swim as part of the SARTECH applicant test.

1 and 2 are conducted in combats.  The 3rd is not.


----------



## Desirea701

Everyone is saying you do the swim test in your combats but i was told specifically by a woman in the navy that they give you bathing suites for the swim test? IF this is true are the females allowed to wear shorts over top the bathing suit?   

I'm confused :-\


----------



## PMedMoe

Desirea701 said:
			
		

> Everyone is saying you do the swim test in your combats but i was told specifically by a woman in the navy that they give you bathing suites for the swim test? IF this is true are the females allowed to wear shorts over top the bathing suit?
> 
> I'm confused :-\



You wear a bathing suit *under* your combats.


----------



## Desirea701

Oh okay...so u are always going to be in the pool with combats on? Thanks


----------



## PMedMoe

Desirea701 said:
			
		

> Oh okay...so u are always going to be in the pool with combats on? Thanks



No.  As to whether or not you can wear shorts over your suit, that's a question for your directing staff to answer.


----------



## Desirea701

Okay thanks....If i have my combats ontop of the bathing suit then i do not care about wearing shorts over top. I just don't like wearing only a bathing suit. I'm not comfortable showing off what I do not need to if u know what I mean . What was the "no" directed towards?


----------



## aesop081

Desirea701 said:
			
		

> What was the "no" directed towards?



No, you will not always be wearing combats in the pool.


----------



## PMedMoe

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> No, you will not always be wearing combats in the pool.



Thanks.



			
				Desirea701 said:
			
		

> What was the "no" directed towards?



You only asked one question, didn't you?


----------



## a.schamb

Vimy_gunner said:
			
		

> Haha, that video is hilarious!
> 
> Btw, one of the best ways to increase cardiovascular fitness is by swimming. It has been proven that consistent swimmers throughout their life live longer than even runners. Partly due to the fact that running causes more injuries and even if you're injured you can still swim. The reason why I mention this is that if you want to kill two birds with one stone (prep for swim test and improved fitness) you may want to include lap swimming in your weekly training regiment. Swimming also works two very key muscle components used for push-ups. Shoulders and a smaller muscle on the outside of your pecs (it's the one that makes you look really sexy to the ladies, lol.) This is also the reason why women absolutely love swimmers bodies. You can google what it is if you like because I can't remember, but pushups and swimming are virtually the only two ways to isolate work on that muscle group. Swimming also aids in your breathing recovery because it simply makes your heart work harder!  Join a swim team like I did even and swim 5-8 hrs a week. You'll find that by doing this you make push-ups easier and treading water for two minutes will feel like a breeze. I'm assuming the problem with most if they have issues with the swim test is not due to fitness but more due to the fact that they hardly spend any time in the water.
> You swim enough and you'll be treading water for two minutes in between your drills.



i highly agree with this.

I also posted this in the thread about running, but for those in high school, looking to improve their swimming, try your Swim team.

Since joining the swim team the past week, my strokes and times have much improved.


----------



## amelia

stealthylizard said:
			
		

> To answer quickly, yes, you do some swimming for PT.  First time I had ever started to sweat in a swimming pool with the exception of hot springs.



That was a good idea or training test in the pool but I think it is better for the army to have a swim test in the open sea. In there, they will think about their lives and they will do their best to survive. It is dangerous but it is the reality.


----------



## Franko

amelia said:
			
		

> That was a good idea or training test in the pool but I think it is better for the army to have a swim test in the open sea. In there, they will think about their lives and they will do their best to survive. It is dangerous but it is the reality.



That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Oh wait! You're a spammer!

Buh bye!

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## Celticgirl

Desirea701 said:
			
		

> Okay thanks....If i have my combats ontop of the bathing suit then i do not care about wearing shorts over top. I just don't like wearing only a bathing suit. I'm not comfortable showing off what I do not need to if u know what I mean . What was the "no" directed towards?



The combats (or overalls) over the bathing suit will be for the swim test only.  For other 'swim PT', women have to wear bathing suit only.  No shorts over the top.

For the record, we did not have to wear our combat boots or even socks during my military swim test.  It's a pretty easy test if you already know how to swim and tread water.


----------



## megany

We did our swim test a few weeks ago - wore combats over the issued bathing suit... we had some debate on whether t-shirts were required or not since they never specified but we had some people do it while wearing combat shirts and some do it without.  Don't forget to tie up your strings (the ones at the torso, the bottom of your combat tunic and the ones at your ankles) - it helps to lessen the water getting in.

I'm not sure about other PSP classes, but for our pool PT sessions we do a lot of circuit stuff.  We start with some "aqua jogging" in the shallow end, then a bit of swimming back and forth with chin-ups/pull-ups, pushups and squats around the edge of the pool.  When we do swimming in the deep end the non-swimmers or weak swimmers are given the option of wearing a buoyancy belt to help keep them afloat and they generally stick to the lanes along the edge of the pool.


----------



## THINKBIG

This technique might interest some one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lUHudMN1TU


----------



## rasputin

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Some are done just with bathing suits, others with combat shirt and pants.



Back when I did it for some strange reason they made us wear one of our military dress suits.  It was kind of wooly and difficult to move in.  Could never figure out why they made us do it in that as I figured they probably ruined the outfit.


----------



## miguel

Does anyone know if the CJIRU- CBRN course consist of swimming? I know the pre selection is 3 and 1/2 days but im not a strong swimmer so im trying to find out if there is any crazy swimming involved either in the pre selection or the course itself...any info would be appreciated. Cheers guys!!


----------



## mariomike

miguel said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if the CJIRU- CBRN course consist of swimming?



"MBRS MUST ALSO PASS THE BASIC MILITARY SWIM TEST.":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/71605/post-684119.html#msg684119


----------



## miguel

Thanks... so there is swimming and by the looks of it, water phobias will be tested and it seems like more than just the basic swim test.  I"ll make sure to hit the pool.


----------



## SoldierInAYear

Good luck Miguel.


----------



## Armymedic

Take the two week military lessons the PSP offer. That will help you with technique. The hit the pool to practice.


----------



## Jarnhamar

I was never a strong swimmer then I started hitting the pool after a gym session. I worked my way up to swimming back and forth carrying either a 10 or 15 pound weight- where as a couple years ago I could hardly keep my head above water now I can swim the length of a pool and back with a 15 pound weight above my head no problem.
Also what helps a lot is putting a mask on and swimming around underwater- it gets you used to being under water (which is a phobia for a lot of people)


----------



## miguel

thanks guys much apreciated...


----------



## A1cool

What happens if somebody fails the swim test at BMQ? 
Will they give a second chance for poor swimmers?


----------



## M_M

Yep. During swimming PT classes, all the bad swimmers/floaters/treaders are rounded up with another PSP staff to practice what they sucked at on the swim test. You can get a second and maybe even 3rd shot!


----------



## A1cool

So they are not allowed to continue on BMQ until they pass the swim test then? Or do they still continue BMQ meanwhile?


----------



## PuckChaser

I failed my swim test on my BMQ (wasn't at St Jean) and carried on to complete the course. Its mainly a water-confidence test, I was told as long as you attempt and give it an honest shot you'll be fine. Not everyone is a swimmer.


----------



## M_M

A1cool said:
			
		

> So they are not allowed to continue on BMQ until they pass the swim test then? Or do they still continue BMQ meanwhile?



You continue on the course like everyone else. It's on the CF expres that you HAVE to pass.


----------



## A1cool

I see
Thanks for the replies guys


----------



## jeffb

That being said, depending on your trade you may need a swim test to take part in certain training later on in your career so if you are a bad swimmer, make an honest effort to get better when you are given the opportunity.


----------



## antigone33

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I think the somersault is to see how you react when disoriented.  After all, if you fell of a ship, it might be head first, so they want to see how quickly you can orient yourself.



The lifesaving society does a swim test/program called Swim To Survive in which swimmers enter the water using a roll (either forward, side or backward), tread water 2 minutes and swim 50 m. their logic behind making usually kids do a roll is that is disorients them similar fashion to falling off a boat/dock ect and being able to right themselves to the surface.  FYI- the treading water for 2 minutes as to see where they are in the water and perhaps be able to call for help/ decide if it is safe to swim to shore/dock/boat ect. 50 m is because most people actually drown 10 m from safety surprisely and most people who find themselves in this situation were not expecting to be in the water.   They have other programs where kids/ teens/ adults swim in clothing, do workouts and all sorts of fun stuff.

just a note- as an instructor of adult swim lessons- a forward roll/ diving would not be covered in a learn to swim basic swim lesson. I tend to teach those to my more advanced students. If you are learning to swim, take the basic class- it is a great support system because you will be with other adults like you. But to cover deep end stuff and forward rolls- do a private lesson for those.


----------



## shadownet

Hi, I'm an extremely passionate military fan and I am joining the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada or the Royal Westminster Regiment of the 39 Canadian Brigade Group in September of 2013. 

I was wondering. I heard there was some sort of water test during BMQ? I'm not a very good swimmer (heck I can't swim to save my life). This worries me a lot. What can I do? Any advice or suggestions?


----------



## Sizzle709

If you go to the RegF BMQ and can't swim then it's considered a "PO" failure. 3 "PO" failures and you get re coursed.

I don't know how it is for Reserve BMQ.


----------



## shadownet

PO?

And can someone in the Reserves help me out here?


----------



## Tyson Fox

Speaking from my own time at BMQ only, we were all required to do the swim test, which consisted of, If I remember correctly, you have to swim 50 meters continuously after jumping in feet first, while wearing coveralls. (Abandon Ship) The second portion of the test is having to tread water for two minutes, then swim twenty meters. However, it was not held against us if we failed it. Two guys on my course absolutely couldn't swim and passed just fine. 

We were all navy too, so when civvies hear what I do and say: "I hope you're a good swimmer" I always respond: "Not a requirement in the navy."

EDIT: I did my BMQ in the naval reserves, so I can't say for sure it would be the same for you.

PO stands for performance objective, which is a test you are required to pass. Failing too many will result in being RTU'd - Returned to Unit(If you are doing BMQ as a summer course, I don't know how weekend BMQ courses work that)

Now that it's been mentioned, I cannot recall if those two individuals got PO failures for the swim test or not. They might have, but if that was the only thing they failed, they would have still passed.


----------



## shadownet

Well, even so, I don't want to look like a total loser not being able to swim. (Sadly I can't legally drive yet either: I'm 19....herp). 

I have incredible amount of respect and awe for our military. The history behind it is amazing. Many people join without knowing about it. 

Any other things I should know about?


----------



## Sizzle709

shadownet said:
			
		

> Well, even so, I don't want to look like a total loser not being able to swim. (Sadly I can't legally drive yet either: I'm 19....herp).
> 
> I have incredible amount of respect and awe for our military. The history behind it is amazing. Many people join without knowing about it.
> 
> Any other things I should know about?



No one on your course will consider you a "loser" for not being able to swim. They might yank your leg and tease you a bit but if they're doing that to you then it is a good sign. Everyone is different and most people who join the CF understand this after week 1.


----------



## shadownet

What's a good way to start preparing for the physical fitness test? I heard it's nothing to worry about, but considering I haven't done any extreme physical exercise since Grade 10 PE.....


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

shadownet said:
			
		

> What's a good way to start preparing for the physical fitness test? I heard it's nothing to worry about, but considering I haven't done any extreme physical exercise since Grade 10 PE.....



Start by searching these forums. There is more information here than you possibly need to know.
Good luck.


----------



## MikeL

shadownet said:
			
		

> I haven't done any extreme physical exercise since Grade 10 PE.....



I doubt your grade 10 PE would be considered "extreme physical exercise"


You want to start preparing for the physical fitness test?  It's call working out.. go for a run, lift weights, do pushups, etc.  Also keep in mind that PT test is pretty easy,  you will need to be at a pretty good level of fitness if you wish to be in the Infantry.

And if you want to improve your swimming,  practice.. take private swimming lessons, what ever you need to do to improve.  AFAIK there is no swim test in Army Reserve BMQ,  but depending on your career and courses you take, etc you may at one point be required to do one.


----------



## Jarnhamar

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> I doubt your grade 10 PE would be considered "extreme physical exercise"



Some people probably do consider that extreme  ;D



			
				shadownet said:
			
		

> What's a good way to start preparing for the physical fitness test? I heard it's nothing to worry about, but considering I haven't done any extreme physical exercise since Grade 10 PE.....



Like Skeletor said, start working out.

LOTS of people heard that the physical test is "nothing to worry about" and they end up failing. I've seen a lot of people fail because they couldn't do the final 1 or 2 push ups.


----------



## shadownet

I have been doing push ups lately...and using my brother's dumbbells. I should be ready by the time September rolls around. I might end up taking private swimming lessons...ugh...I hate swimming but I guess I have to suck it up and do it. No other choice

Thanks guys! You really helped me out here!


----------



## mustanglx88

I'm thinking of joining the Canadian Forces in the near future, but there's something that's concerning me. I'm not a great swimmer; could this prevent me of attending the Leadership and recruit school in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu? 

Thank you


----------



## Noctis

mustanglx88 said:
			
		

> I'm thinking of joining the Canadian Forces in the near future, but there's something that's concerning me. I'm not a great swimmer; could this prevent me of attending the Leadership and recruit school in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu?
> 
> Thank you



If swimming is your main concern, check out the requirements.  You only need to swim about 20m laps, and strud water for about 3 minutes. Shouldn't be much of an issue. Practice at a local pool and you should be good to go in no time.


----------



## X2012

You also don't need to pass the swim test to pass. There was a few of us on my course who didn't. I could probably do the swimming ok, but I couldn't manage to somersault into the water! More practice required!


----------



## kawal

I dont know how to swim,will that be a problem during my BMQ?


----------



## Jarnhamar

In your defense I'm sure you came across this problem right?



> Due to high stress on the server, the search function has been automatically and temporarily disabled. Please try again in a short while.



Have you considered learning to swim?


----------



## kawal

I don't know how to swim, will that be a problem during my BMQ?


----------



## MikeL

There is a swim test during BMQ,  I don't think you need to pass it but you must attempt it.

Depending on your trade and future courses you may be required to do the swim test as well.

Here is a thread regarding the swim test,  have a read through it
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17795.0


*edit*  I just noticed you made two threads here asking that question,  as well as posting the question in another thread.  You don't need to ask the same question multiple times.


----------



## JorgSlice

I don't know how to swim either. I took lessons and spent way too much money on sinking.

No fear, you just have to jump in the pool and try it. During the swimming PT and other water training, they will either give you remedial swimming training (which I had to do, still can't swim  ;D) or they will have you do other training (not sure how this goes, I haven't heard of other arrangements).


----------



## kawal

Thanks a lot, im planning to take few swimming lessons next week.


----------



## kawal

Thanks, sorry about the multiple postings.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Don't join the navy.


That would be my advice.


----------



## SentryMAn

I was a triathlete at the time of my BMOQ, and failed the test since I touched the side of the pool 1m from the exit point to allow for someone to get out ahead of me.

Remedial Swim class was fun though.

LEARN to swim, you do the swim test in your uniform(top/btm) and it's not hard but not easy.


----------



## ajp

Maybe if you do join the Navy it will be motivation not to sink.

My unit did adventure training of sorts last fall.  A day of Kayaking.  One individual couldnt do one length of the pool at the final stage of the swim test and wasnt allowed to attend kayaking.  His loss.

Learn to swim.  Or at least float in one direction....Not DOWN!.


----------



## zzaroc

Hi,

I've been selected for ROTP Pilot. Going to BMOQ July 13th, RMCC after that.

I've never really swam in my life. I've started training already but I'm just wondering if they will help train me to swim to standard at St. Jean or do they expect all candidates to know how to swim upon arrival.

Thanks.


----------



## drbones

My platoon had 2 pool sessions while at St Jean. One was the swim test, which if you fail is not a big deal, you can retake it later if you'd like. If you are a weak swimmer, just identify yourself to the staff and they will ensure you are supervised accordingly. You are not expected to know how to swim upon arrival. They go over stroke technique, but literally, it is a 15min crash course.  

Cheers


----------



## zzaroc

You basically covered everything I wanted to know. 

Thanks!


----------



## Loachman

I can manage a bastardized and spastic dog (or some form of mammalian lifeform)-paddle at best, yet earned my Wings in 1982.

Don't crash into water.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

This will enhance your sea survival experience. ;D


----------



## RocketRichard

Maybe a good idea to take a swimming course before BMOQ.  Methinks it's a good idea for a pilot to know how to tread water and/or swim. If you ever have to eject lots of bodies of water. Pilots even managed to find the very few lakes and/ or sloughs to bail into near Moose Jaw over the years.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

RocketRichard said:
			
		

> Maybe a good idea to take a swimming course before BMOQ.  Methinks it's a good idea for a pilot to know how to tread water and/or swim. If you ever have to eject lots of bodies of water. Pilots even managed to find the very few lakes and/ or sloughs to bail into near Moose Jaw over the years.



Not necessarily. A friend of mine can't swim to save his life... he's been a Sonar Operator for the RCN for 5 years now.


----------



## zzaroc

Thank you everyone for your replies and thank you Mariomike for the link. It was very helpful.

I'll take swimming lessons for sure before BMOQ. There is no reason no to.

Thanks again!


----------



## Halohockey36

hey there, I know there is a thread that is all about the swim test and have read through it but did not find an answer to my question.  Basically , one of the swim requirements for the test is "You must also somersault into the water without a life jacket, tread water for 2 minutes and then swim 20 metres."  Now the swimming part I am fine with but the one thing I am concerned about , which is kind of embarrassing, but I can't do a somersault one bit.  No matter how many times I try I just can't do them, used to when I was young but not anymore.  So basically my question is, does it really matter if you do a complete somersault or one at all to get into the water or do they not really care as long as you can do the swimming part? 

Thanks, Erik


----------



## drbones

You somersault off the swim blocks. The fitness staff will give you thorough instructions how to complete it. You will stick your head between your legs and roll off the platform. Don't worry and you can attempt it numberous times.


----------



## Loachman

Merged.



			
				Storteboom said:
			
		

> hey there, I know there is a thread that is all about the swim test and have read through it but did not find an answer to my question.



Nothing would have prevented you from asking in that thread, though.


----------



## Halohockey36

drbones said:
			
		

> You somersault off the swim blocks. The fitness staff will give you thorough instructions how to complete it. You will stick your head between your legs and roll off the platform. Don't worry and you can attempt it numberous times.



Ok, thanks.  I have watched a video on youtube about the swim test and it sounds and looks a lot easier then doing one on the ground.  I guess really what I should do is go to my local pool and practice both doing that and my swimming since I haven't really swam in a while.


----------



## drbones

Practicing at your local pool will definitely help, but seriously do not worry about the swim test. You will be occupied with more important things at basic. Best of luck and enjoy the course. I sure did :camo:


----------



## Halohockey36

drbones said:
			
		

> Best of luck and enjoy the course. I sure did :camo:



Thanks!  I still have a couple years to wait as I am still in high school but I am already working on getting in shape and working out as I want to be as prepared as possible so I figured why not start now.


----------



## Sempai Julia

I haven't swam since I was caught in an undertow when I was 20 (and drunk....lesson learned).
My husband took me to the Y and basically held my hand for the first 2 minutes, but the time we left I did two five minutes of treading water, 4 slow lengths of the pool with different strokes and a summersault. I didn't realize until this thread that I had to summersault INTO the pool. I may have issues with that.
Unless you take a cramp of fatigue in the pool I *THINK* most people should be able to make it through the test.
That's from life experience *NOT* military.
Your friend Julia ;D


----------



## Francesco

DEagle said:
			
		

> Well this is kinda emberesing...i am in good shape and i wana join recruits but i dont know how to swim...actually my biggest fear is water...last year i jumped of bridge with my friends but i had life jacket on....i just wana know whut distance am i suposed to swim and is it really necessary for me to know how to swim really good?
> thanks


----------



## uiop

Hi I want to know a little bit more about the swim test in basic training. is there a specific way I have to swim? and for treading it's only two minutes right?


----------



## PuckChaser

The internet is hard sometimes. Click the first link.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=canadian+forces+swim+test


----------



## Loachman

Hello, uiop.

You could have found the thread into which I just merged yours in less time than it took to type out your question.

Please develop the habit of looking for answers already given instead of re-asking things.

You'll learn a lot more that way, too.


----------



## Cpl.JoshPerson

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The internet is hard sometimes. Click the first link.
> 
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=canadian+forces+swim+test


Don't you think we should be a little more mature around here than that?


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## PuckChaser

Cpl.JoshPerson said:
			
		

> Don't you think we should be a little more mature around here than that?


Could have told him not to be lazy and search the site. 30 seconds on Google would have saved him all those words, and you a post defending his laziness.


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## Loachman

Cpl.JoshPerson said:
			
		

> Don't you think we should be a little more mature around here than that?





			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> If you are in the application phase, why is "Cpl" part of your username?



Justify your misleading inclusion of a rank in your username, or change it.


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## Cpl.JoshPerson

Loachman said:
			
		

> Justify your misleading inclusion of a rank in your username, or change it.


Ahh nows the part where I get to call you lazy for not googling it.


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## George Wallace

Cpl.JoshPerson said:
			
		

> Ahh nows the part where I get to call you lazy for not googling it.



Welcome to the WARNING SYSTEM 

You fail to realize that us MODS have access to ALL of your posts, including your deleted posts, as well as all your information.  As of January of this year, you have still not been accepted into the Canadian Armed Forces, nor have you provided any proof of your "Rank" being attained in any Cadet Movement, any Commonwealth nation, or any other instance.  So Brenden, it would behoove you to provide an explanation and proof to back up your claim to such an entitlement as using a military rank.


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## Cpl.JoshPerson

Its a nickname based of the character "Ray" from generation kill.


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## Loachman

Cpl.JoshPerson said:
			
		

> Ahh nows the part where I get to call you lazy for not googling it.



Some advice for you, laddybuck:

_*Should*_ you be accepted into the CF, speak to your Course DS in exactly the same manner. This will provide your coursemates with untold amounts of mirth, which they will greatly appreciate.

And stories do sometimes come back to us, as the CF is a fairly small community, so we, too, may enjoy those that may be told about you.

I asked you about your user name previously, as per my quotation, and you ignored me. You could have simply explained then. The common assumption, and reason why I'd not bother to do any research into it, would be that it is Cadet rank, as Cadets have done that here before - and have changed their profile when prompted to do so.

Inclusion of a rank that you have not earned in your user name will not go over well here - _*has*_ not gone over well here - and the same is true regarding the attitude that you have displayed thus far.


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## hangin_around

My cousin is in the Navy and he told me that you don't necessarily have to know how to swim, but you need to be able to jump in. He said one of the guys in his platoon had never been in water before and he told the supervisors beforehand. So he jumped in the water, sank to the bottom, and they jumped in to help him out.

Essentially they want to know if you can get into an uncomfortable situation and maintain your cool.

I personally can't swim but am going to go to the local pool soon to at least familiarize myself with the water so when the time comes for me to be jumping in that water in gear, I won't be flailing around and screaming like an idiot.


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## Infant_Tree

Hi, I was wondering what the policy is on swimming requirements in BMQ. Will swimming lessons be taught to recruits who don't know how to swim or am I expected to be able to swim before I arrive? If I understand correctly, the requirement is to swim 20 metres as well as tread water for 2 minutes, correct? Am I required to swim/tread water with a perfect form (e.g. proper breaststrokes) or can I still pass if I swim "improperly"? If I fail the swimming section of BMQ, will I be given a second chance at swimming or will I be kicked out of BMQ?

Thanks,

Infant_Tree


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## LightFighter

You won't fail BMQ if you can't swim, or if you have poor form.  IMO, it wouldn't hurt you to learn how to swim before joining the CAF, especially given the trade you want to join as.


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## Infant_Tree

Yeah I guess I should take some swimming lessons ;D


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## Loachman

Infant_Tree said:
			
		

> Am I required to swim/tread water with a perfect form



Any score less than 8.5 from the Russian judge and you're gone.


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## SashaQ

[quote 

Infant_Tree
[/quote]

Just wanted to say, interesting choice of user name!


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## glassnight

Read through all the post, helps a lot. Thank you all guys!
I am not a swimmer and I sink quickly. While with the flippers I can manage to float and move for a certain distance (took a swimming class and learned how to front crawl). Here is my question hoping somebody can answer: Is flipper allowed in the test? Many thanks!


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## BeyondTheNow

glassnight said:
			
		

> Read through all the post, helps a lot. Thank you all guys!
> I am not a swimmer and I sink quickly. While with the flippers I can manage to float and move for a certain distance (took a swimming class and learned how to front crawl). Here is my question hoping somebody can answer: Is flipper allowed in the test? Many thanks!



No. Swimming aids of any kind are not permitted, except (unless they’ve done away with this portion of the test) when jumping off the diving board (forget the exact height) to simulate evacuation of a ship/boat. In which case, you have a life preserver.


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## Oldgateboatdriver

BeyondTheNow: I suggest you merely google "Life Preserver Pics" and look at the pictures.

I can guarantee you that the Navy does not have any "test" that require anyone to jump off a diving board using one of those.

What you refer to has nothing to do with the CAF swimming test. During the sea survival phase of NETP, personnel will have to jump from said diving board wearing their personal life jacket un-inflated, then inflate it once in the water, make their way to an upside down life raft, turn it over and get the whole class into it. It is a full class exercise.


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## BeyondTheNow

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> BeyondTheNow: I suggest you merely google "Life Preserver Pics" and look at the pictures.
> 
> I can guarantee you that the Navy does not have any "test" that require anyone to jump off a diving board using one of those.
> 
> What you refer to has nothing to do with the CAF swimming test. During the sea survival phase of NETP, personnel will have to jump from said diving board wearing their personal life jacket un-inflated, then inflate it once in the water, make their way to an upside down life raft, turn it over and get the whole class into it. It is a full class exercise.



OGBD:

Not in anyway trying to be disrespectful, but I’ve successfully completed the RegF BMQ swim test twice. The portion of the test where we jumped off the diving board (with the life preserver provided to us) was explained to us (by staff on both of my pls) as I explained it to the user above. If what we were instructed to do wasn’t supposed to be a military simulation off of a vessel of any kind, then I apologize and was misinformed by the instructors at the time who used the language/terminology while explaining as I used also.


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## glassnight

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> No. Swimming aids of any kind are not permitted, except (unless they’ve done away with this portion of the test) when jumping off the diving board (forget the exact height) to simulate evacuation of a ship/boat. In which case, you have a life preserver.



Thank you BeyondTheNow!  :nod:


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## Oldgateboatdriver

My apologies if this is now the case BTN. 

It wasn't in my days. We only had to swim a couple of length in coveralls and then do about ten minutes of threading water in the deep end to qualify at basic. Then the naval test was more advanced.

But I can tell that, if you were told what you say by the instructor, then that instructor was not in the Navy. A life preserver is a very very specific item, sometimes known as a Kisby ring. And very few of them are carried onboard ships. But it is exactly that, a rigid ring of hard foam that you throw to someone in the water to assist them before you can pick them out of there. You do not, under any circumstances, jump into the water with it around your waist, or you will either slip through it or break your arms.

I suspect you were asked to jump in the water wearing a positive buoyancy life jacket (these are the big orange coloured ones). again, here, there is a methodology to jumping with them (feet crossed* - arms crossed across your chest, holding the top of the life jacket) to avoid injuries. Doing this, without the next step (getting into a lifeboat or liferaft) from a one meter board is a very poor simulation of  abandoning a ship - which is normally done from higher up and with the inflatable type of life jacket and then requires you to right and board a liferaft.

*: If you wonder why we cross the feet, it is because you are simulating jumping in water from a sinking ship. Therefore, you can expect debris floating in the waters around you. If you jump legs opened, well, you can end up with a hit to the vital parts - if you know what I mean. By crossing the feet, you guarantee that the shock of anything you hit will be "absorbed" by your legs and you will be deflected or push it aside automatically.


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## mariomike

glassnight said:
			
		

> Is flipper allowed in the test?



If simulating a real-world emergency in the water - as opposed to recreational swimming - it is unlikely you would have flippers available.


----------



## BeyondTheNow

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> My apologies if this is now the case BTN.
> 
> It wasn't in my days. We only had to swim a couple of length in coveralls and then do about ten minutes of threading water in the deep end to qualify at basic. Then the naval test was more advanced.
> 
> But I can tell that, if you were told what you say by the instructor, then that instructor was not in the Navy. A life preserver is a very very specific item, sometimes known as a Kisby ring. And very few of them are carried onboard ships. But it is exactly that, a rigid ring of hard foam that you throw to someone in the water to assist them before you can pick them out of there. You do not, under any circumstances, jump into the water with it around your waist, or you will either slip through it or break your arms.
> 
> I suspect you were asked to jump in the water wearing a positive buoyancy life jacket (these are the big orange coloured ones). again, here, there is a methodology to jumping with them (feet crossed* - arms crossed across your chest, holding the top of the life jacket) to avoid injuries. Doing this, without the next step (getting into a lifeboat or liferaft) from a one meter board is a very poor simulation of  abandoning a ship - which is normally done from higher up and with the inflatable type of life jacket and then requires you to right and board a liferaft.
> 
> *: If you wonder why we cross the feet, it is because you are simulating jumping in water from a sinking ship. Therefore, you can expect debris floating in the waters around you. If you jump legs opened, well, you can end up with a hit to the vital parts - if you know what I mean. By crossing the feet, you guarantee that the shock of anything you hit will be "absorbed" by your legs and you will be deflected or push it aside automatically.



Thank you for the info, OGBD. I received a PM from another Navy member who helped explain what was causing the confusion also. (I chuckled a little bit, as you're correct, the staff giving direction wasn't Navy.) I'm also not navy, and I wasn't aware that the terminology was incorrect.


----------



## BRAVO COMPANY

Are you required to know how to swim to qualify for the Infantry Reserves and the Basic Military Qualification?


----------



## Trueprince2

BRAVO COMPANY said:
			
		

> Are you required to know how to swim to qualify for the Infantry Reserves and the Basic Military Qualification?


there is a swimming portion of bmq where you swim with your sack and rifle


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## BDTyre

The course I'm currently on will apparently require a swim test at some point. I'm just curious as to the format of the swim test as we have a mix of people, such as myself who did a swim test on my infantry course that saw us treading water and swimming without and with a life preserver, in combats (we may have even worn boots), newer people who only did it in combats (no boots) with a life preserver and new people who have never done it.

I've been told the current format is combats, no footwear, with a life preserve. You need to tread water for one minute and swim to the other end of the pool. Is that correct? We're trying to get the newer members on course to feel comfortable with what will happen before we go into the swim test.


----------



## Blackadder1916

https://www.cafconnection.ca/National/Programs-Services/For-Military-Personnel/Military-Fitness/Specialty-Trade-Program/Basic-Military-Swim-Standard.aspx


----------



## mnnamdari@gmail.com

I can not swim, is it any way to learn it , or any exemption. I applied for Finance administration.
Thanks 
Mehrzad


----------



## BeyondTheNow

mnnamdari@gmail.com said:
			
		

> I can not swim, is it any way to learn it , or any exemption. I applied for Finance administration.
> Thanks
> Mehrzad



(Assuming you’ve applied for regular force) I was at CFLRS for mine and life jackets were provided to those who needed them. All were expected to get in the water and at least attempt all components, regardless of swimming capability. There are also several staff ready to intervene if needed. 

The pool at CFLRS was closed for maintenance for quite some time; I’m not sure if it’s opened again. Depending on when/if you go, and where, I’m not sure if all locations currently running basic courses (training has been spread out due to covid) have pool accessibility, or if they’re even currently including the swim test . Someone else will have to chime in on that piece...


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