# Military License Plate



## Silverfire (7 Mar 2012)

I was driving today and saw a car with the license plate RCN RCB.  I was just curious if there was any military reference to that? Possibly Navy? 

Similarly, I have seen license plates that have the SOT Ribbon that read something like ##QYR##.  I'm not entirely sure though.  Would that be a reference to Queens York Rangers? Is there like a vanity license plate format that military members use possibly indicating years of enrolment and retirement?

Totally off topic, but I did once hear of a license plate in Ontario that simple read TAXES.  But if you read the entire thing, it would say, 

ONTARIO
TAXES
YOURS TO DISCOVER


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## Old Sweat (7 Mar 2012)

My RV has Ontario plate MUD GNR.


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## 2010newbie (7 Mar 2012)

Silverfire said:
			
		

> Similarly, I have seen license plates that have the SOT Ribbon that read something like ##QYR##.



I believe the YR is present in all the SOT plates in Ontario that are solely graphic plates and not vanity plates. The YR stands for Yellow Ribbon.

http://media.mmgcommunity.topscms.com/images/7a/e1/f21f5e0f404793ec0fbc009050f9.jpeg

There are a bunch of Graphic plates for different reserve regiments and of course the veteran plates as well.

http://www.ontario.ca/en/services_for_residents/ONT06_023115


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## Rifleman62 (7 Mar 2012)

A fellow in SK has been making Cdn Mil Vanity plates.  The website is below. 

http://dlmvp.com/index.html

Possible potential advertiser at Army.ca


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## Rogo (7 Mar 2012)

Saw a guy drive by with the plates EMECWO the other day.


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## Jed (7 Mar 2012)

A relative of mine has the plate UBIQUE. To bad he had Arty background and not Engr. I guess he drove all over the place and not 'everywhere'.  8)


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## Pat in Halifax (7 Mar 2012)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> A fellow in SK has been making Cdn Mil Vanity plates.  The website is below.
> 
> http://dlmvp.com/index.html
> 
> Possible potential advertiser at Army.ca



Those are great!
I now know what my father-in-law(ret'd-C2 Bos'n) is getting for Father's Day!


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## PPCLI Guy (7 Mar 2012)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> A fellow in SK has been making Cdn Mil Vanity plates.  The website is below.
> 
> http://dlmvp.com/index.html
> 
> Possible potential advertiser at Army.ca



I wonder if he has the permission of the Regiments to use their proprietary logos?

I think I will find out...


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## Pat in Halifax (7 Mar 2012)

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that because they are freely available on line (and do not belong to the Regiment but more the GOC) that there should be nothing here. Could be wrong.


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## Stoker (7 Mar 2012)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> I wonder if he has the permission of the Regiments to use their proprietary logos?
> 
> I think I will find out...



Why not leave the guy alone?


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## dapaterson (7 Mar 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Why not leave the guy alone?



Because once you let one guy do it, everyone will do it.  And your idea of what's appropriate may not be someone else's.


Unless you want this guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 wearing a "HMCS YourShip" thong out in public.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (7 Mar 2012)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> I wonder if he has the permission of the Regiments to use their proprietary logos?
> 
> I think I will find out...



Sure. Find out at the same time if YOU have permission to use the PPCLI insignia as your avatar. Just saying


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## Journeyman (7 Mar 2012)

For the same reason that people can't just come on this site and start selling whatever they wish -- proprietary rights. The regiments have the authority to fund-raise or self-promote through selling products with their logo on it -- this guy in Saskatchewan (bless his entrepreneurial spirit) does not.


Edit: dapterson managed to make the point _much_ more eloquently


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## PPCLI Guy (7 Mar 2012)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Sure. Find out at the same time if YOU have permission to use the PPCLI insignia as your avatar. Just saying



Note that I am using a photo of the Magueritte, for a very good reason.

And yes, I do have authority....


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## Oldgateboatdriver (7 Mar 2012)

Actually, Journeyman, you do not know whether he has permission or not. 

And BTW, under section 9 of the Trademarks Act, these various emblems, insignia, crests, etc. belong to Her Majesty the Queen, not the individual unit for which they are adopted. So its Her consent that must be sought. For the Armed Forces, IIRC there is a person responsible for those permission in the GG's office.


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## Kat Stevens (7 Mar 2012)

wow


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## Franko (7 Mar 2012)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Actually, Journeyman, you do not know whether he has permission or not.
> 
> And BTW, under section 9 of the Trademarks Act, these various emblems, insignia, crests, etc. belong to Her Majesty the Queen, not the individual unit for which they are adopted. So its Her consent that must be sought. For the Armed Forces, IIRC there is a *person responsible* for those permission in the GG's office.



 :rofl:

You REALLY have no idea who PPCLI GUY is.....          :


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## the 48th regulator (7 Mar 2012)

Individuals do no have seek permission from each individual Unit.  I am in the process of doing this for a small business I would like to start, and this is what I received from DND;



> Good morning Mr. Tescione,
> 
> Please accept my apologies for the delay in reply.
> 
> ...



As for us being the police of some of these vendors, trust me, DND has already contacted him well before anyone here has.

dileas

tess


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## Strike (7 Mar 2012)

If people are THAT worried about it, general rule of thumb is, if you want to make money off of it you are not allowed to use it.  If the emblem is going to be used in any way to discredit the CF, you are not allowed to use it.  If it is going to be used to assume some sort of association in which you may end up making money from it, you are not allowed to use it.

If you're using it in this site to reflect an association or in any other way that does not reflect any of the examples above, you're probably ok.  But for times when you want to use it for fundraising or to reflect any association you may have with a group (think kit shop) then you have to apply for permission.


(keep in mind, the above is just a general Coles note of how the CF administers its trademarks and NOT the be all and end all of explanation.)


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## Pat in Halifax (7 Mar 2012)

Nerf herder said:
			
		

> :rofl:
> 
> You REALLY have no idea who PPCLI GUY is.....          :



And you sir, REALLY have no idea who Oldgateboatdriver is....


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## Michael OLeary (7 Mar 2012)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> I wonder if he has the permission of the Regiments to use their proprietary logos?
> 
> I think I will find out...



Well, I do know of one case where someone got shut down for using CF badges for a money-making venture:

http://www.zazzle.com/military_insignia/gifts?cg=196596658324787409



> We regret to inform that at the request from Department of National Defence of Canada Zazzle management opted to remove all Canadian Armed Forces products from Zazzle marketplace. As a result, this insignia will no longer be available as a part of my "Military Insignia" project on Zazzle. Read the full story on my blog here: Canadian Military Insignia 3D


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## Good2Golf (7 Mar 2012)

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> And you sir, REALLY have no idea who Oldgateboatdriver is....



Okay, how about we stop that here and carry on with the topic at hand.  OGBD's shot across PPCLI Guy's bow, while apparently intended to play the cutesy legalese game he intended, missed the mark because the Patricia Margeuritte no longer falls under Crown Copyright, as it was last used prior to WWII, and is outside of the 50 year period that Section 12 of the Canadian Copyright Act stipulates.  

Thus, PPCLI Guy is both regimentally and, for those so interested, _legally_ entitled to display the WWI Margueritte, unlike the individual to whom PPCLI Guy's original note of interest pertained, the regimental design of which is still currently in use, and thus still subject to Crown Copyright.


Regards
G2G


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## Dissident (8 Mar 2012)

Where is my popcorn eating emoticon when I need it.


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## AJFitzpatrick (8 Mar 2012)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Okay, how about we stop that here and carry on with the topic at hand.  OGBD's shot across PPCLI Guy's bow, while apparently intended to play the cutesy legalese game he intended, missed the mark because the Patricia Margeuritte no longer falls under Crown Copyright, as it was last used prior to WWII, and is outside of the 50 year period that Section 12 of the Canadian Copyright Act stipulates.
> 
> Thus, PPCLI Guy is both regimentally and, for those so interested, _legally_ entitled to display the WWI Margueritte, unlike the individual to whom PPCLI Guy's original note of interest pertained, the regimental design of which is still currently in use, and thus still subject to Crown Copyright.
> 
> ...



so there is no 'legal' restriction on reproducing  CEF cap badges, collar dogs etc. then ?


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## Pat in Halifax (8 Mar 2012)

I was going to leave this alone but can’t. With all due respect to the OP, I apologize that we have derailed this on you but I think your initial query is answered. 
The recent ‘bun fight’ started because a 26 year veteran of the CF wanted to PROUDLY display his Naval service but there seemed to be no off-the-shelf product so he made his own. Friends who were also retirees asked him to make them one and convinced him to expand, which he did. I do not know if he requested Crown permission for the use of the images (though as a 26 year CPO2, I will assume he knew better and did) but I don’t care. He is not ‘raking’ in cash on these. 
I noticed that no mention is made of the retiree who has been paid and trained by the taxpayer dollar to take a six figure job with a Defence contractor whose sole goal is to squeeze maximum monetary benefits out of the government (the taxpayer) through lucrative contracts. And _dapatterson_, I don’t know you but I expected more from you based on your profile. The individual pictured WOULD wear whatever the f*** he wanted and no one (not even you) would prevent that – cheap shot.
I always cherished the fact that this website did NOT promote political correctness and in fact, usually members diplomatically discouraged it. Also, there was no rank and except for a VERY select few, no hierarchy amongst members. _nerfherder_, with all due respect to you and he, who _PPCLI Guy _ is as opposed to who _OGBD_ is, is irrelevant.
 I used to come to the site for a chuckle, to learn, to contribute, generally to feel better. Now, I find more often than not, I leave the site pissed off because of things like this. No, none of this belongs in this thread-None of this should have been necessary in the first place.

Unfortunately, I think I may well be done here.


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## Journeyman (8 Mar 2012)

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, I think I may well be done here.


It's not political correctness; it's the law.

 And you're "pissed off because of things like this"?? Things like _this_? People disagree with you, so you're going to take your teddy bear and leave?   :crybaby:


Get the fuck over yourself    :


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## Franko (8 Mar 2012)

Pat in Halifax said:
			
		

> Also, there was no rank and except for a VERY select few, no hierarchy amongst members. _nerfherder_, with all due respect to you and he, who _PPCLI Guy _ is as opposed to who _OGBD_ is, is irrelevant.



All I was alluding to is where PPCLI Guy's authority comes from, not his rank. He does have the authority to use emblems as he sees fit due in course to the position he currently holds and his past position. If he wanted to he can PM you on all the details.

At no time did I ever say what it was because it doesn't matter to the topic at hand. I had a good chuckle because someone was spouting off without knowing the facts.

You then feel free to chime in with "You don't know who OGBD is" and now you're the one bringing in "*though as a 26 year CPO2*, I will assume he knew better and did" that lends itself no where to the discussion at hand....

 :bla-bla:

Nice way to work in your rank to try and win an argument.

As for you leaving this "unofficial site, not associated with DND" because someone disagrees with you, have a nice day.

Regards


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## jollyjacktar (8 Mar 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Because once you let one guy do it, everyone will do it.  And your idea of what's appropriate may not be someone else's.
> 
> 
> Unless you want this guy
> ...



Alright, who gave you my photo   :clubinhand:


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## Stoker (8 Mar 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Alright, who gave you my photo   :clubinhand:



 ;D :rofl:

Think i'll order a couple for gifts


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## Oldgateboatdriver (8 Mar 2012)

Now listen everyone, I am big enough to live through this - trust me on that.

Let's see if we can get back on topic here, with a quick summary of where we are:

Someone in Sask. makes (beautiful, IMO) license plates that  include crests and other miscellaneous military emblems and signage.

We don't know whether that person has proper permission or not to do so and some members state they want to find out.

Other members want good enough left alone.

In that last vein, I make a feeble attempt at levity that backfires through my ignorance, starting a pi****g contest.

Now, can we go back to the topic: Military license plates.

All I can say is that, regardless, two of those RCN Retired plates will soon be on their way to me and if I broke the law, well then so be it.


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## GAP (8 Mar 2012)

I agree, let's get back to the topic.


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## CountDC (8 Mar 2012)

;D  After reading all the funnies I now forget what the OP had asked.

Soooo - new quesiton simply because I don't know and am too lazy at the moment to look for it.  Is OGBD breaking any laws by purchasing these items and using them?  WWF(wildlife) sued WWF (now WWE wrestling) and won.  No one that had purchased their items, used them and some still use them have ever been charged with any crime in association with it that I know of.


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## GAP (8 Mar 2012)

Here in Manitoba, you must have a regulation front license plate. Is that the case in most other provinces?


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## Strike (8 Mar 2012)

OGBD would probably not be breaking the law in buying/using the plates provided they are not on a commercial vehicle (inferring an association which may lead to making more money for his business) or are not used in any way to discredit the CF.  What would be against the law would be if the seller did not have permission to use the crests/insignias.

My take on what the marketing and trademark guys taught me last year.


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## dangerboy (8 Mar 2012)

GAP said:
			
		

> Here in Manitoba, you must have a regulation front license plate. Is that the case in most other provinces?



In Alberta we only have rear license plates.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (8 Mar 2012)

GAP: Not the case in Quebec: we don't have any front license plate - hence my purchase.

CountDC: I would not get charged, but the RCMP can seize any item protected under trademark laws - All they would have to do is drive faster than I would be if they ever tried to get their hands on my plates  .

BTW, as I made my purchase, I noticed that Don's designs are marked as "trademark protected", which would tend to support the fact that he has proper permission to use.


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## OldTanker (8 Mar 2012)

The Vet's Vette (my '95). I thought this was unique until I rolled up my to a meeting of our local Corvette Club and there was an '09 with similar plates. Some vets get it!


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## Pat in Halifax (8 Mar 2012)

Nerf herder said:
			
		

> All I was alluding to is where PPCLI Guy's authority comes from, not his rank. He does have the authority to use emblems as he sees fit due in course to the position he currently holds and his past position. If he wanted to he can PM you on all the details.
> 
> At no time did I ever say what it was because it doesn't matter to the topic at hand. I had a good chuckle because someone was spouting off without knowing the facts.
> 
> ...



Thanks
Two things to clarify - I am not the one who is the 26 year CPO2 - It is the site owner.
Also, I recognize his name and have asked him directly and will get back to all on this.

Pat


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## Pat in Halifax (8 Mar 2012)

Further to my last, from the owner of the site:

_Hello Patrick


All of my Crests/Badges, etc. are purchased from a vector graphics company and the amount I paid includes any and all royalties.

I do not reproduce any that people send me unless they or I have the approval to do so. I do not want to infringe on any copyrights.


Don

Don's Military Vanity Plates

306-696-3262_


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## Silverfire (9 Mar 2012)

As the OP of this thread, carry on with the derailed discussion.  I have always found that I learn more randomly rather than deliberately searching anyway.


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## Michael OLeary (9 Mar 2012)

> All of my Crests/Badges, etc. are purchased from a vector graphics company and the amount I paid includes any and all royalties.
> 
> I do not reproduce any that people send me unless they or I have the approval to do so. I do not want to infringe on any copyrights.



That doesn't exactly answer the question about Crown copyright, or at least not clearly. Is he saying there is a "vector graphics company" authorized to sell digital artwork of DND badges and crests including publishing rights for them?

Or is he having the badges and crests redrawn at his own expense, thinking that having his own custom made versions grants him the rights to publish them?  If this is the case, I would refer back to the links I provided where a digital artist was redrawing DND badges for his own online sales (via Zazzle) and was stopped from doing so. 

Whose approval is he referring to as granting permission to use these badges and crests?


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## larry Strong (9 Mar 2012)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> so there is no 'legal' restriction on reproducing  CEF cap badges, collar dogs etc. then ?



Considering the minefield that CEF badges are to collectors...I would have to say no......


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## 2010newbie (9 Mar 2012)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> That doesn't exactly answer the question about Crown copyright, or at least not clearly. Is he saying there is a "vector graphics company" authorized to sell digital artwork of DND badges and crests including publishing rights for them?



I have no clue what company this gentleman uses, but these guys seem to think they can sell the vector graphics royalty free.

http://vector-images.com/cd_contents/canadianforces.php



> Whose approval is he referring to as granting permission to use these badges and crests?



On their licensing page (http://vector-images.com/licenses/) it states that the images can be used for up to 500 items for resale and it also states:



> * Usage of Governmental, provincial, municipal or military logos, seals, coats of arms and insignia may require a permission or a license from according official institution.


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## Stoker (9 Mar 2012)

Not this again :facepalm:


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## Michael OLeary (9 Mar 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Not this again :facepalm:



Feel free to not care and ignore the thread. I have an interest in the copyright issue and the possible DND actions regarding it. If you don't, try not to make your lack of interest too obvious by adding useless posts.


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## PPCLI Guy (9 Mar 2012)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Whose approval is he referring to as granting permission to use these badges and crests?



As I understand the latest developments, the Regiment does have the authority.  It is likely that this individual will become a partner of the PPCLI, or will cease and desist selling PPCLI branded items.


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## Fishbone Jones (9 Mar 2012)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> As I understand the latest developments, the Regiment does have the authority.  It is likely that this individual will become a partner of the PPCLI, or will cease and desist selling PPCLI branded items.



That's the way I've always understood it. If we wanted to get Regimental rings, or the kitshop was getting something done with the cap badge on it, the CO needed to approve it. He is the one that grants authority to use the images.


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## the 48th regulator (9 Mar 2012)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> As I understand the latest developments, the Regiment does have the authority.  It is likely that this individual will become a partner of the PPCLI, or will cease and desist selling PPCLI branded items.



When I asked that, I was given the information that I posted earlier.  All badges belong to Crown Copyright.  The Regiments can act as an agent, to request if the vendor has official use, however if that vendor has applied and been given copy right permission, the Regiment can not do anything to deter him from using it.  Therefore, the Regiments do not own the right to the Badge, only are given permission to use it.

dileas

tess


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## Occam (9 Mar 2012)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> As I understand the latest developments, the Regiment does have the authority.  It is likely that this individual will become a partner of the PPCLI, or will cease and desist selling PPCLI branded items.



Does this authority also exist at a higher level, or is the Regiment the only granting authority?


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## Strike (9 Mar 2012)

Occam said:
			
		

> Does this authority also exist at a higher level, or is the Regiment the only granting authority?





			
				the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> When I asked that, I was given the information that I posted earlier.  All badges belong to Crown Copyright.  The Regiments can act as an agent, to request if the vendor has official use, however if that vendor has applied and been given copy right permission, the Regiment can not do anything to deter him from using it.  Therefore, the Regiments do not own the right to the Badge, only are given permission to use it.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



That's why you should read posts that have been posted since you started your reply, as per the suggestion of the big red band that pops up at the top of the page after you've tried posting.


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## Occam (9 Mar 2012)

Strike said:
			
		

> That's why you should read posts that have been posted since you started your reply, as per the suggestion of the big red band that pops up at the top of the page after you've tried posting.



That's fine if you get one.  I didn't.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (2 Apr 2012)

Have now received my plates from  Don's and installed them on my Navy blue Corolla and my white pick up truck.

They look spiffy.

Slip the dogs of war: Anyone out there, feel free to set the "trademark" cops on me  .


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## Jed (2 Apr 2012)

That's pretty dangerous sedition!  ;D Just like all those sinners in church choirs who illicitly copy the hymn music without proper authorization. I'm sure we will all burn in hell.


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## Sub_Guy (2 Apr 2012)

We have all lost sight of what is important here.

dapaterson had access to a pretty disturbing picture, it's disturbing knowing that he has that pic on his PC.

What other treasures is he keeping from us?!


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## Colin Parkinson (2 Apr 2012)

I understand that if you mount the RCR plate, it must be polished every morning before 8:00am and the car must also be washed every 3 days and must be parked exactly 3 inch's from the freshly painted white line of the parking stall, including a private drive, which must also have freshly painted white stones along the edge of the drive, each stone being no more than 5" wide. Driver must be appropriately attired in a suit (tailored) and a regimental tie. Any modifications of the above must be signed off by 5 ex RSM's


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## Tank Troll (2 Apr 2012)

Only 5 EX RSMs? The the Royals are getting lenient in this new millennium. One RSM from 2VP had RSM2VP on his plate when he was posted to Ottawa then Meadford it read XRSM2VP.


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