# U571...



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:22:43 -0600*
--------------264C477BFD3695BE87F6E623
I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s been out for a while
old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so... so
hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge the Enigma machine
was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered the war. So
perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group, for whom I respect
their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story? Take out British,
Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not trying to start a
pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at 200 
meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
disillusioned... again,
Francois
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:05:37 -0400*
Its the money Francios
The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the Czechs
and/or Poles
the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the "code" used
for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.    Not to
argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of WWII they
would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the world may
be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans.
They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face it they
were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else to break the
front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German defeat.
America declined the League of Nations according to their own self interest.
They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides to the
middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once in, least damaged, they
"carpet-bagged" their way through.
Geez!
Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways that
did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years being "americanized"
to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "F. A." 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
Subject: U571...
> I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s been out for
a while
> old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so... so
> hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge the Enigma
machine
> was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered the war.
So
> perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group, for whom I
respect
> their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story? Take out
British,
> Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not trying to
start a
> pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at
200 
> meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
>
> disillusioned... again,
>
>
> Francois
>
>
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:16:17 -0600*
--------------88B1D3C27487F2C7632A07B0
John,
        Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I just found the
movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well, I always
have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all nearly 3 hours of it.
Thanks!
Francois
Gow wrote:
> Its the money Francios
>
> The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the Czechs
> and/or Poles
>
> the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the "code" used
> for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.    Not to
> argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of WWII they
> would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the world may
> be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
>
> Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans.
> They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face it they
> were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else to break the
> front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German defeat.
>
> America declined the League of Nations according to their own self interest.
>
> They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides to the
> middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once in, least damaged, they
> "carpet-bagged" their way through.
>
> Geez!
>
> Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
> started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways that
> did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years being "americanized"
> to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
>
> If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "F. A." 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
> Subject: U571...
>
> > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s been out for
> a while
> > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so... so
> > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge the Enigma
> machine
> > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered the war.
> So
> > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group, for whom I
> respect
> > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story? Take out
> British,
> > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not trying to
> start a
> > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at
> 200 
> > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
> >
> > disillusioned... again,
> >
> >
> > Francois
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------88B1D3C27487F2C7632A07B0
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
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org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
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x-mozilla-cpt:-12336
fn:www.avscanada.com
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--------------88B1D3C27487F2C7632A07B0--
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:45:54 -0400*
I‘m beginning to really like your thoughts, guy.
Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I write it in the
same line ...no
Saskatchewan...
LOL!
And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine job as a premier in
attracting federal attention to his province.
Oh well.  We  are Canadians, given all that.  Chest beating would probably
be reason to kick us collectively out of the Olympics or something...
Good Night!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "F. A." 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: U571...
> John,
>
>         Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I just found
the
> movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well, I
always
> have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all nearly 3 hours
of it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Francois
>
>
>
> Gow wrote:
>
> > Its the money Francios
> >
> > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the Czechs
> > and/or Poles
> >
> > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the "code"
used
> > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.    Not to
> > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of WWII
they
> > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the world
may
> > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
> >
> > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans.
> > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face it
they
> > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else to break
the
> > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German defeat.
> >
> > America declined the League of Nations according to their own self
interest.
> >
> > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides to the
> > middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once in, least damaged,
they
> > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
> >
> > Geez!
> >
> > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
> > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways
that
> > did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years being
"americanized"
> > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
> >
> > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "F. A." 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
> > Subject: U571...
> >
> > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s been out
for
> > a while
> > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so... so
> > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge the
Enigma
> > machine
> > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered the
war.
> > So
> > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group, for whom
I
> > respect
> > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story? Take
out
> > British,
> > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not trying to
> > start a
> > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at
> > 200 
> > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
> > >
> > > disillusioned... again,
> > >
> > >
> > > Francois
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:10:00 -0600*
--------------6509465A571B62914A405B29
 boundary="------------8A7918D66EF32E762385CD69"
--------------8A7918D66EF32E762385CD69
John,
        Actually, I was born and raised in Alberta, yep, that makes me a good
ol‘ boy   I may come from 14 generations of Quebecois, but believe me I‘m not
a hyphenated Canadian. My father left the Gaspe in 1954, joining the LdSH, he
specifically requested to join an English speaking Regt. He had had enough of
the backwater politics even then. He was only the second member of the family to
join an English Regt, all the others had served with French speaking units since
the Riel Rebellion. And when he took a medical discharge in 1968 while we were
in Valcatier, he requested the move back to Calgary. I personally believe Lucien
is nothing more than a political opportunist, and more than just a little
deluded. I hope that my family back in Quebec finally figures out what the
PQ/BQ, the educational elite and the French language media have all been doing
for the past 20 years. That is pulling the wool over their eyes. Ok, now I‘ve
done it... completely digressed. Please no flames, unless I really deserve it.
Francois
in Calgary, honest!
Gow wrote:
> I‘m beginning to really like your thoughts, guy.
>
> Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I write it in the
> same line ...no
> Saskatchewan...
>
> LOL!
>
> And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine job as a premier in
> attracting federal attention to his province.
>
> Oh well.  We  are Canadians, given all that.  Chest beating would probably
> be reason to kick us collectively out of the Olympics or something...
>
> Good Night!
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "F. A." 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: U571...
>
> > John,
> >
> >         Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I just found
> the
> > movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well, I
> always
> > have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all nearly 3 hours
> of it.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Francois
> >
> >
> >
> > Gow wrote:
> >
> > > Its the money Francios
> > >
> > > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the Czechs
> > > and/or Poles
> > >
> > > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the "code"
> used
> > > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.    Not to
> > > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of WWII
> they
> > > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the world
> may
> > > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
> > >
> > > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans.
> > > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face it
> they
> > > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else to break
> the
> > > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German defeat.
> > >
> > > America declined the League of Nations according to their own self
> interest.
> > >
> > > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides to the
> > > middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once in, least damaged,
> they
> > > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
> > >
> > > Geez!
> > >
> > > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
> > > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways
> that
> > > did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years being
> "americanized"
> > > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
> > >
> > > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
> > >
> > > John
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "F. A." 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
> > > Subject: U571...
> > >
> > > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s been out
> for
> > > a while
> > > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so... so
> > > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge the
> Enigma
> > > machine
> > > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered the
> war.
> > > So
> > > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group, for whom
> I
> > > respect
> > > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story? Take
> out
> > > British,
> > > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not trying to
> > > start a
> > > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at
> > > 200 
> > > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
> > > >
> > > > disillusioned... again,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Francois
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------8A7918D66EF32E762385CD69
John,
 Actually, I was born and
raised in Alberta, yep, that makes me a good ol‘ boy  I may come
from 14 generations of Quebecois, but believe me I‘m not
a hyphenated Canadian. My father left the Gaspe in 1954, joining the LdSH,
he specifically requested to join an English speaking Regt. He had had
enough of the backwater politics even then. He was only the second member
of the family to join an English Regt, all the others had served with French
speaking units since the Riel Rebellion. And when he took a medical discharge
in 1968 while we were in Valcatier, he requested the move back to Calgary.
I personally believe Lucien is nothing more than a political opportunist,
and more than just a little deluded. I hope that my family back in Quebec
finally figures out what the PQ/BQ, the educational elite and the French
language media have all been doing for the past 20 years. That is pulling
the wool over their eyes. Ok, now I‘ve done it... completely digressed.
Please no flames, unless I really deserve it.
Francois
in Calgary, honest!
Gow wrote:
I‘m beginning to really like your thoughts, guy.
Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I write it in
the
same line ...no
Saskatchewan...
LOL!
And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine job as a premier
in
attracting federal attention to his province.
Oh well. We are Canadians, given all that. Chest beating
would probably
be reason to kick us collectively out of the Olympics or something...
Good Night!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "F. A." ltzzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>
To: ltarmy@cipherlogic.on.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: U571...
> John,
>
> Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t
going to do any chestbeating. I just found
the
> movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well,
I
always
> have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all nearly
3 hours
of it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Francois
>
>
>
> Gow wrote:
>
> > Its the money Francios
> >
> > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the
Czechs
> > and/or Poles
> >
> > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the
"code"
used
> > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.
Not to
> > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of
WWII
they
> > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the
world
may
> > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
> >
> > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans.
> > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face
it
they
> > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else
to break
the
> > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German defeat.
> >
> > America declined the League of Nations according to their own self
interest.
> >
> > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides
to the
> > middle until finally kicked into the conflict. Once in, least
damaged,
they
> > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
> >
> > Geez!
> >
> > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
> > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways
that
> > did not want to get into it. Have spent umpteen years being
"americanized"
> > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
> >
> > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "F. A." ltzzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>
> > To: ltarmy@cipherlogic.on.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
> > Subject: U571...
> >
> > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s
been out
for
> > a while
> > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so...
so
> > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge
the
Enigma
> > machine
> > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered
the
war.
> > So
> > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group,
for whom
I
> > respect
> > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story?
Take
out
> > British,
> > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not
trying to
> > start a
> > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range,
and at
> > 200 
> > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
> > >
> > > disillusioned... again,
> > >
> > >
> > > Francois
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.
--------------8A7918D66EF32E762385CD69--
--------------6509465A571B62914A405B29
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and extreme environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
x-mozilla-cpt:-12336
fn:www.avscanada.com
end:vcard
--------------6509465A571B62914A405B29--
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *DHall058@aol.com* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:25:36 EDT*
Very little comes out of Hollywood that is truly original...A good number of 
our "hit" tv shows i.e. All in the Family, Sanford and Son were British 
shows changed to American venues.  But being egocentric as we are, Hollywood 
assumes that very few Americans would pay to see a film about the RN. Which 
many down here would assume means, "Registered Nurse".  After all, "Das 
Boot" wasn‘t a hit, was it?  Sometimes we can be a lot like the Russians, 
changing history to fit our perception of our self-importance.  
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:29:28 -0400*
HOT ****!!
To get off the topic with you, yes, that is in fact politics, isn‘t it?  
But to bleed off extra cash becomes a politician‘s job...now us tax 
payers do not like this...but Lucien has done it very well.  And might I 
add, I DO NOT LIKE Ralph Klein or Mike Harris, because they are about 
the same as Grant Devine.  Klein with his obliviousness of the country, 
his cheapness that is known across the country...cannot even buy popcorn 
for himslef, let alone others...but you Albertans are a case to 
yourselves I have sisters and sister-in-laws here...
Mike Harris is a weak kneed opportunist who was lucky enough to be borne 
to a millionaire father and who has never had to work in the real world. 
 Cannot even come up with an honest answer to who he supports federally 
in an election.  Not surprising, he‘s not very honest in anything else 
either.  Wife basher type that can‘t stay married...but those 
millionaires that inherited their cash don‘t give much of a damn...could 
you see Mikey, Ralph or Lucien in a uniform, serving their country?  
Remember that on voting days
John
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: F. A.
  To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
  Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:10 AM
  Subject: Re: Was U571... kind of getting off topic now though...
  John,
          Actually, I was born and raised in Alberta, yep, that makes me 
a good ol‘ boy   I may come from 14 generations of Quebecois, but 
believe me I‘m not a hyphenated Canadian. My father left the Gaspe in 
1954, joining the LdSH, he specifically requested to join an English 
speaking Regt. He had had enough of the backwater politics even then. He 
was only the second member of the family to join an English Regt, all 
the others had served with French speaking units since the Riel 
Rebellion. And when he took a medical discharge in 1968 while we were in 
Valcatier, he requested the move back to Calgary. I personally believe 
Lucien is nothing more than a political opportunist, and more than just 
a little deluded. I hope that my family back in Quebec finally figures 
out what the PQ/BQ, the educational elite and the French language media 
have all been doing for the past 20 years. That is pulling the wool over 
their eyes. Ok, now I‘ve done it... completely digressed. Please no 
flames, unless I really deserve it.

  Francois
  in Calgary, honest!

  Gow wrote:
    I‘m beginning to really like your thoughts, guy.
    Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I write it 
in the
    same line ...no
    Saskatchewan...
    LOL!
    And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine job as a 
premier in
    attracting federal attention to his province.
    Oh well.  We  are Canadians, given all that.  Chest beating would 
probably
    be reason to kick us collectively out of the Olympics or 
something...
    Good Night!
    John
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "F. A." 
    To: 
    Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM
    Subject: Re: U571...
    > John,
    >
    >         Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I just 
found
    the
    > movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh 
well, I
    always
    > have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all nearly 3 
hours
    of it.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > Francois
    >
    >
    >
    > Gow wrote:
    >
    > > Its the money Francios
    > >
    > > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by 
the Czechs
    > > and/or Poles
    > >
    > > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the 
"code"
    used
    > > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.   
 Not to
    > > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of 
WWII
    they
    > > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the 
world
    may
    > > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
    > >
    > > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million 
Americans.
    > > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face 
it
    they
    > > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else 
to break
    the
    > > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German 
defeat.
    > >
    > > America declined the League of Nations according to their own 
self
    interest.
    > >
    > > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides 
to the
    > > middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once in, least 
damaged,
    they
    > > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
    > >
    > > Geez!
    > >
    > > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
    > > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to 
runaways
    that
    > > did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years being
    "americanized"
    > > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
    > >
    > > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
    > >
    > > John
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "F. A." 
    > > To: 
    > > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
    > > Subject: U571...
    > >
    > > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s 
been out
    for
    > > a while
    > > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was 
so... so
    > > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge 
the
    Enigma
    > > machine
    > > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even 
entered the
    war.
    > > So
    > > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group, 
for whom
    I
    > > respect
    > > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a 
story? Take
    out
    > > British,
    > > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not 
trying to
    > > start a
    > > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close 
range, and at
    > > 200 
    > > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
    > > >
    > > > disillusioned... again,
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Francois
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > --------------------------------------------------------
    > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
    > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
    > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
    > > message body.
    >
    --------------------------------------------------------
    NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
    to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
    to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
    message body.
HOT ****!!
To get off the topic with you, yes, that is in fact 
politics,
isn‘t it? But to bleed off extra cash becomes a politician‘s 
job...now us
tax payers do not like this...but Lucien has done it very well. 
And might
I add, I DO NOT LIKE Ralph Klein or Mike Harris, because they are about 
the same
as Grant Devine. Klein with his obliviousness of the country, his
cheapness that is known across the country...cannot even buy popcorn for 
himslef, let alone others...but you Albertans are a case to yourselves 
I have
sisters and sister-in-laws here...
Mike Harris is a weak kneed opportunist who was 
lucky enough
to be borne to a millionaire father and who has never had to work in the 
real
world. Cannot even come up with an honest answer to who he 
supports
federally in an election. Not surprising, he‘s not very honest in 
anything
else either. Wife basher type that can‘t stay married...but those
millionaires that inherited their cash don‘t give much of a damn...could 
you see
Mikey, Ralph or Lucien in a uniform, serving their country? 
Remember that
on voting days
John
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  F.
  A. 
  To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
  Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 
1:10
  AM
  Subject: Re: Was U571... kind 
of getting
  off topic now though...
  John,
   Actually, I was born and 
raised
  in Alberta, yep, that makes me a good ol‘ boy  I may come from 
14
  generations of Quebecois, but believe me I‘m not a 
hyphenated
  Canadian. My father left the Gaspe in 1954, joining the LdSH, he 
specifically
  requested to join an English speaking Regt. He had had enough of the 
backwater
  politics even then. He was only the second member of the family to 
join an
  English Regt, all the others had served with French speaking units 
since the
  Riel Rebellion. And when he took a medical discharge in 1968 while we 
were in
  Valcatier, he requested the move back to Calgary. I personally believe 
Lucien
  is nothing more than a political opportunist, and more than just a 
little
  deluded. I hope that my family back in Quebec finally figures out what 
the
  PQ/BQ, the educational elite and the French language media have all 
been doing
  for the past 20 years. That is pulling the wool over their eyes. Ok, 
now I‘ve
  done it... completely digressed. Please no flames, unless I really 
deserve it.

  Francois in Calgary, honest! 
  Gow wrote:
  I‘m beginning to really like your thoughts, 
guy.
    Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I write 
it in the
    same line ...no Saskatchewan...
    LOL!
    And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine job as a 
premier
    in attracting federal attention to his province.
    Oh well. We are Canadians, given all that. 
Chest
    beating would probably be reason to kick us collectively out of 
the
    Olympics or something...
    Good Night!
    John ----- Original Message ----- From: "F. A."
    ltzzzzzzz@telusplanet.netgt To: 
ltarmy@cipherlogic.on.cagt
    Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM Subject: Re: U571... 
    gt John, gt
    gt Don‘t 
worry, I
    wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I just found the gt 
movie
    well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well, I 
always
    gt have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all 
nearly 3
    hours of it. gt gt Thanks! gt gt 
Francois
    gt gt gt gt Gow wrote: gt gt 
gt Its
    the money Francios gt gt gt gt The Enigma machine 
was
    stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the Czechs gt gt 
and/or Poles
    gt gt gt gt the RN capture of a submarine gave a 
code
    breaking break in the "code" used gt gt for the subs 
alone,
    and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked. Not to 
gt
    gt argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of 
WWII
    they gt gt would have won without it, but at a harder, 
greater
    cost, so the world may gt gt be grateful to the Czechs 
and Poles
    that got it through to us. gt gt gt gt Hollywood is 
a
    money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans. gt 
gt They
    get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face it 
they
    gt gt were an ineffective force Canadians did more than 
anyone else
    to break the gt gt front, and Russians bled the German 
atack to
    ensure German defeat. gt gt gt gt America declined 
the
    League of Nations according to their own self interest. gt 
gt
    gt gt They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing 
both
    sides to the gt gt middle until finally kicked into the
    conflict. Once in, least damaged, they gt gt
    "carpet-bagged" their way through. gt gt gt gt Geez! 
    gt gt gt gt Francois, I know your grandfather was a 
R22e,
    but sdon‘t get me gt gt started...have been to Hearst and
    Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways that gt gt did not 
want to
    get into it. Have spent umpteen years being "americanized" 
    gt gt to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so! 
gt
    gt gt gt If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so! 
gt gt
    gt gt John gt gt ----- Original Message ----- 
gt gt
    From: "F. A." ltzzzzzzz@telusplanet.netgt gt gt To:
    ltarmy@cipherlogic.on.cagt gt gt Sent: Saturday, October 
21,
    2000 11:22 PM gt gt Subject: U571... gt gt gt 
gt
    gt I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s 
been out
    for gt gt a while gt gt gt old news and I 
took my
    time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so... so gt gt gt
    hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge the 
Enigma
    gt gt machine gt gt gt was first captured by the 
RN, 9
    months before the US even entered the war. gt gt So 
gt
    gt gt perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news 
group, for
    whom I gt gt respect gt gt gt their opinion, 
is this
    the only way Hollywood can tell a story? Take out gt gt 
British,
    gt gt gt Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? 
Certainly
    not trying to gt gt start a gt gt gt pissing 
contest, but
    sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at gt gt 200  
    gt gt gt meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a 
cheap
    date!? gt gt gt gt gt gt disillusioned... again, 
    gt gt gt gt gt gt gt gt gt Francois 
gt
    gt gt gt gt gt gt gt gt gt
    -------------------------------------------------------- gt 
gt
    NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message 
gt gt
    to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish gt 
gt to
    remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the gt gt 
message body.
    gt
    -------------------------------------------------------- 
NOTE:
    To remove yourself from this list, send a message to
    majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish to remove, 
with
    the line "unsubscribe army" in the message
body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:33:49 -0600*
--------------77676588C4B85764FC7D9A71
Dave,
Thank you, I‘m afraid you‘re right. My wife commented precisely that the
American audince, for which Holloywood iproducing movies for in the first place,
probably wouldn‘t pay to see a film about the RN or Poles or Czechs capturing
the enigma machine. Wht concerns me is that too many people will believe this as
‘fact‘, eventually history gets twisted. But perhaps I‘m wrong...
Francois
P.S.  I‘m still trying to get a hold of Ian Newby for you, I will forward
privately the only address/phn number I have...
DHall058@aol.com wrote:
> Very little comes out of Hollywood that is truly original...A good number of
> our "hit" tv shows i.e. All in the Family, Sanford and Son were British
> shows changed to American venues.  But being egocentric as we are, Hollywood
> assumes that very few Americans would pay to see a film about the RN. Which
> many down here would assume means, "Registered Nurse".  After all, "Das
> Boot" wasn‘t a hit, was it?  Sometimes we can be a lot like the Russians,
> changing history to fit our perception of our self-importance.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------77676588C4B85764FC7D9A71
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and extreme environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
x-mozilla-cpt:-12336
fn:www.avscanada.com
end:vcard
--------------77676588C4B85764FC7D9A71--
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:49:09 -0600*
--------------9ACEA553CBA46882320BEA66
 boundary="------------CB83FE9BD19B8C7BC48706CA"
--------------CB83FE9BD19B8C7BC48706CA
John
        Oh crap, now I did it    Admittedly not everyone likes Ralph
or Mike or Grant. I didn‘t realize Ralph was cheap, popcorn? I don‘t
quite follow. And I‘m not really sure how Ralph is about the same as
Grant Devine, perhaps you can enlighten me. What I do understand of
Klein‘s politics, is that he wanted to cut our costs, cut our taxes and
get the province out of being in business. Which is precisely what
Albertans wanted him to do in the last 2 elections. The fact is... it
worked! Though he probably went a wee bit too far on the hospital issue
here in Calgary. Other than that, it‘s really pretty darn good here. Our
taxes are down, I‘m busier than I‘ve ever been in my life and
unemployement has hit 4 in Calgary, very close to the 2.7 theoritical
limit and our debt will cease to exist in 24 months a tthe current rate
of repayment. As well, I wasn‘t aware that Ralph was oblivious of the
country, can you elaborate?
I wasn‘t trying to rile you up. I was just venting a spleen. Besides, I
prefer sticking to CF/military topics...
all the best,
Francois
Gow wrote:
> HOT ****!! To get off the topic with you, yes, that is in fact
> politics, isn‘t it?  But to bleed off extra cash becomes a
> politician‘s job...now us tax payers do not like this...but Lucien has
> done it very well.  And might I add, I DO NOT LIKE Ralph Klein or Mike
> Harris, because they are about the same as Grant Devine.  Klein with
> his obliviousness of the country, his cheapness that is known across
> the country...cannot even buy popcorn for himslef, let alone
> others...but you Albertans are a case to yourselves I have sisters
> and sister-in-laws here... Mike Harris is a weak kneed opportunist who
> was lucky enough to be borne to a millionaire father and who has never
> had to work in the real world.  Cannot even come up with an honest
> answer to who he supports federally in an election.  Not surprising,
> he‘s not very honest in anything else either.  Wife basher type that
> can‘t stay married...but those millionaires that inherited their cash
> don‘t give much of a damn...could you see Mikey, Ralph or Lucien in a
> uniform, serving their country?  Remember that on voting days John
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: F. A.
>      To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>      Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:10 AM
>      Subject: Re: Was U571... kind of getting off topic now
>      though...
>       John,
>
>              Actually, I was born and raised in Alberta, yep,
>      that makes me a good ol‘ boy   I may come from 14
>      generations of Quebecois, but believe me I‘m not a
>      hyphenated Canadian. My father left the Gaspe in 1954,
>      joining the LdSH, he specifically requested to join an
>      English speaking Regt. He had had enough of the backwater
>      politics even then. He was only the second member of the
>      family to join an English Regt, all the others had served
>      with French speaking units since the Riel Rebellion. And
>      when he took a medical discharge in 1968 while we were in
>      Valcatier, he requested the move back to Calgary. I
>      personally believe Lucien is nothing more than a political
>      opportunist, and more than just a little deluded. I hope
>      that my family back in Quebec finally figures out what the
>      PQ/BQ, the educational elite and the French language media
>      have all been doing for the past 20 years. That is pulling
>      the wool over their eyes. Ok, now I‘ve done it... completely
>      digressed. Please no flames, unless I really deserve it.
>
>
>      Francois
>      in Calgary, honest!
>
>
>      Gow wrote:
>
>     > I‘m beginning to really like your thoughts, guy.
>     >
>     > Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I
>     > write it in the
>     > same line ...no
>     > Saskatchewan...
>     >
>     > LOL!
>     >
>     > And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine
>     > job as a premier in
>     > attracting federal attention to his province.
>     >
>     > Oh well.  We  are Canadians, given all that.  Chest
>     > beating would probably
>     > be reason to kick us collectively out of the Olympics or
>     > something...
>     >
>     > Good Night!
>     >
>     > John
>     > ----- Original Message -----
>     > From: "F. A." 
>     > To: 
>     > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM
>     > Subject: Re: U571...
>     >
>     > > John,
>     > >
>     > >         Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t going to do any
>     > chestbeating. I just found
>     > the
>     > > movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much
>     > more. Oh well, I
>     > always
>     > > have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut,
>     > all nearly 3 hours
>     > of it.
>     > >
>     > > Thanks!
>     > >
>     > > Francois
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > Gow wrote:
>     > >
>     > > > Its the money Francios
>     > > >
>     > > > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the
>     > Allies by the Czechs
>     > > > and/or Poles
>     > > >
>     > > > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking
>     > break in the "code"
>     > used
>     > > > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being
>     > tricked.    Not to
>     > > > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied
>     > Forces of WWII
>     > they
>     > > > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater
>     > cost, so the world
>     > may
>     > > > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it
>     > through to us.
>     > > >
>     > > > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300
>     > million Americans.
>     > > > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but
>     > lets face it
>     > they
>     > > > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than
>     > anyone else to break
>     > the
>     > > > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure
>     > German defeat.
>     > > >
>     > > > America declined the League of Nations according to
>     > their own self
>     > interest.
>     > > >
>     > > > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing
>     > both sides to the
>     > > > middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once
>     > in, least damaged,
>     > they
>     > > > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
>     > > >
>     > > > Geez!
>     > > >
>     > > > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but
>     > sdon‘t get me
>     > > > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al
>     > homes to runaways
>     > that
>     > > > did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years
>     > being
>     > "americanized"
>     > > > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
>     > > >
>     > > > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
>     > > >
>     > > > John
>     > > > ----- Original Message -----
>     > > > From: "F. A." 
>     > > > To: 
>     > > > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
>     > > > Subject: U571...
>     > > >
>     > > > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed,
>     > okay so it‘s been out
>     > for
>     > > > a while
>     > > > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed,
>     > it was so... so
>     > > > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers
>     > acknowledge the
>     > Enigma
>     > > > machine
>     > > > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US
>     > even entered the
>     > war.
>     > > > So
>     > > > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the
>     > news group, for whom
>     > I
>     > > > respect
>     > > > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can
>     > tell a story? Take
>     > out
>     > > > British,
>     > > > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans?
>     > Certainly not trying to
>     > > > start a
>     > > > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at
>     > close range, and at
>     > > > 200 
>     > > > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a
>     > cheap date!?
>     > > > >
>     > > > > disillusioned... again,
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Francois
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > --------------------------------------------------------
>     > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a
>     > message
>     > > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you
>     > wish
>     > > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>     > > > message body.
>     > >
>     >
>     > --------------------------------------------------------
>     > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>     > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>     > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>     > message body.
>
--------------CB83FE9BD19B8C7BC48706CA
John
 Oh crap, now I did it 
Admittedly not everyone likes Ralph or Mike or Grant. I didn‘t realize
Ralph was cheap, popcorn? I don‘t quite follow. And I‘m not really sure
how Ralph is about the same as Grant Devine, perhaps you can enlighten
me. What I do understand of Klein‘s politics, is that he wanted to cut
our costs, cut our taxes and get the province out of being in business.
Which is precisely what Albertans wanted him to do in the last 2 elections.
The fact is... it worked! Though he probably went a wee bit too far on
the hospital issue here in Calgary. Other than that, it‘s really pretty
darn good here. Our taxes are down, I‘m busier than I‘ve ever been in my
life and unemployement has hit 4 in Calgary, very close to the 2.7 theoritical
limit and our debt will cease to exist in 24 months a tthe current rate
of repayment. As well, I wasn‘t aware that Ralph was oblivious of the country,
can you elaborate?
I wasn‘t trying to rile you up. I was just venting a spleen. Besides,
I prefer sticking to CF/military topics...
all the best,
Francois
Gow wrote:
HOT ****!!To
get off the topic with you, yes, that is in fact politics, isn‘t it?
But to bleed off extra cash becomes a politician‘s job...now us tax payers
do not like this...but Lucien has done it very well. And might I
add, I DO NOT LIKE Ralph Klein or Mike Harris, because they are about the
same as Grant Devine. Klein with his obliviousness of the country,
his cheapness that is known across the country...cannot even buy popcorn
for himslef, let alone others...but you Albertans are a case to yourselves
I have sisters and sister-in-laws here...Mike
Harris is a weak kneed opportunist who was lucky enough to be borne to
a millionaire father and who has never had to work in the real world.
Cannot even come up with an honest answer to who he supports federally
in an election. Not surprising, he‘s not very honest in anything
else either. Wife basher type that can‘t stay married...but those
millionaires that inherited their cash don‘t give much of a damn...could
you see Mikey, Ralph or Lucien in a uniform, serving their country?
Remember that on voting daysJohn
----- Original Message -----
From:
F.
A.
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:10
AM
Subject: Re: Was U571... kind of getting
off topic now though...
John,
 Actually, I was born and
raised in Alberta, yep, that makes me a good ol‘ boy  I may come
from 14 generations of Quebecois, but believe me I‘m not
a hyphenated Canadian. My father left the Gaspe in 1954, joining the LdSH,
he specifically requested to join an English speaking Regt. He had had
enough of the backwater politics even then. He was only the second member
of the family to join an English Regt, all the others had served with French
speaking units since the Riel Rebellion. And when he took a medical discharge
in 1968 while we were in Valcatier, he requested the move back to Calgary.
I personally believe Lucien is nothing more than a political opportunist,
and more than just a little deluded. I hope that my family back in Quebec
finally figures out what the PQ/BQ, the educational elite and the French
language media have all been doing for the past 20 years. That is pulling
the wool over their eyes. Ok, now I‘ve done it... completely digressed.
Please no flames, unless I really deserve it.
Francois
in Calgary, honest!
Gow wrote:
I‘m beginning to really like your thoughts, guy.
Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I write it in
the
same line ...no
Saskatchewan...
LOL!
And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine job as a premier
in
attracting federal attention to his province.
Oh well. We are Canadians, given all that. Chest beating
would probably
be reason to kick us collectively out of the Olympics or something...
Good Night!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "F. A." ltzzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>
To: ltarmy@cipherlogic.on.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: U571...
> John,
>
> Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t
going to do any chestbeating. I just found
the
> movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well,
I
always
> have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all nearly
3 hours
of it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Francois
>
>
>
> Gow wrote:
>
> > Its the money Francios
> >
> > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the
Czechs
> > and/or Poles
> >
> > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the
"code"
used
> > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.
Not to
> > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of
WWII
they
> > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the
world
may
> > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
> >
> > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans.
> > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face
it
they
> > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else
to break
the
> > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German defeat.
> >
> > America declined the League of Nations according to their own self
interest.
> >
> > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides
to the
> > middle until finally kicked into the conflict. Once in, least
damaged,
they
> > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
> >
> > Geez!
> >
> > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
> > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways
that
> > did not want to get into it. Have spent umpteen years being
"americanized"
> > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
> >
> > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "F. A." ltzzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>
> > To: ltarmy@cipherlogic.on.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
> > Subject: U571...
> >
> > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s
been out
for
> > a while
> > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so...
so
> > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge
the
Enigma
> > machine
> > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered
the
war.
> > So
> > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group,
for whom
I
> > respect
> > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story?
Take
out
> > British,
> > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not
trying to
> > start a
> > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range,
and at
> > 200 
> > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
> > >
> > > disillusioned... again,
> > >
> > >
> > > Francois
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.
--------------CB83FE9BD19B8C7BC48706CA--
--------------9ACEA553CBA46882320BEA66
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and extreme environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
x-mozilla-cpt:-12336
fn:www.avscanada.com
end:vcard
--------------9ACEA553CBA46882320BEA66--
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:04:13 -0400*
Any chance you could just reply to jgow@home.com?
Then we could just discuss it like gentlemen....if that would be what we 
are...
LOL!
John
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: F. A.
  To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
  Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:49 AM
  Subject: Re: Was U571... kind of getting off topic now though...
  John
          Oh crap, now I did it    Admittedly not everyone likes Ralph 
or Mike or Grant. I didn‘t realize Ralph was cheap, popcorn? I don‘t 
quite follow. And I‘m not really sure how Ralph is about the same as 
Grant Devine, perhaps you can enlighten me. What I do understand of 
Klein‘s politics, is that he wanted to cut our costs, cut our taxes and 
get the province out of being in business. Which is precisely what 
Albertans wanted him to do in the last 2 elections. The fact is... it 
worked! Though he probably went a wee bit too far on the hospital issue 
here in Calgary. Other than that, it‘s really pretty darn good here. Our 
taxes are down, I‘m busier than I‘ve ever been in my life and 
unemployement has hit 4 in Calgary, very close to the 2.7 theoritical 
limit and our debt will cease to exist in 24 months a tthe current rate 
of repayment. As well, I wasn‘t aware that Ralph was oblivious of the 
country, can you elaborate?
  I wasn‘t trying to rile you up. I was just venting a spleen. Besides, 
I prefer sticking to CF/military topics...

  all the best,
  Francois


  Gow wrote:
    HOT ****!! To get off the topic with you, yes, that is in fact 
politics, isn‘t it?  But to bleed off extra cash becomes a politician‘s 
job...now us tax payers do not like this...but Lucien has done it very 
well.  And might I add, I DO NOT LIKE Ralph Klein or Mike Harris, 
because they are about the same as Grant Devine.  Klein with his 
obliviousness of the country, his cheapness that is known across the 
country...cannot even buy popcorn for himslef, let alone others...but 
you Albertans are a case to yourselves I have sisters and 
sister-in-laws here... Mike Harris is a weak kneed opportunist who was 
lucky enough to be borne to a millionaire father and who has never had 
to work in the real world.  Cannot even come up with an honest answer to 
who he supports federally in an election.  Not surprising, he‘s not very 
honest in anything else either.  Wife basher type that can‘t stay 
married...but those millionaires that inherited their cash don‘t give 
much of a damn...could you see Mikey, Ralph or Lucien in a uniform, 
serving their country?  Remember that on voting days John
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: F. A.
      To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
      Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 1:10 AM
      Subject: Re: Was U571... kind of getting off topic now though...
       John,
              Actually, I was born and raised in Alberta, yep, that 
makes me a good ol‘ boy   I may come from 14 generations of Quebecois, 
but believe me I‘m not a hyphenated Canadian. My father left the Gaspe 
in 1954, joining the LdSH, he specifically requested to join an English 
speaking Regt. He had had enough of the backwater politics even then. He 
was only the second member of the family to join an English Regt, all 
the others had served with French speaking units since the Riel 
Rebellion. And when he took a medical discharge in 1968 while we were in 
Valcatier, he requested the move back to Calgary. I personally believe 
Lucien is nothing more than a political opportunist, and more than just 
a little deluded. I hope that my family back in Quebec finally figures 
out what the PQ/BQ, the educational elite and the French language media 
have all been doing for the past 20 years. That is pulling the wool over 
their eyes. Ok, now I‘ve done it... completely digressed. Please no 
flames, unless I really deserve it.

      Francois
      in Calgary, honest!

      Gow wrote:
        I‘m beginning to really like your thoughts, guy.
        Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I write 
it in the
        same line ...no
        Saskatchewan...
        LOL!
        And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine job as 
a premier in
        attracting federal attention to his province.
        Oh well.  We  are Canadians, given all that.  Chest beating 
would probably
        be reason to kick us collectively out of the Olympics or 
something...
        Good Night!
        John
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "F. A." 
        To: 
        Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM
        Subject: Re: U571...
        > John,
        >
        >         Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I 
just found
        the
        > movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh 
well, I
        always
        > have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all 
nearly 3 hours
        of it.
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > Francois
        >
        >
        >
        > Gow wrote:
        >
        > > Its the money Francios
        > >
        > > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies 
by the Czechs
        > > and/or Poles
        > >
        > > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in 
the "code"
        used
        > > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being 
tricked.    Not to
        > > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces 
of WWII
        they
        > > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so 
the world
        may
        > > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to 
us.
        > >
        > > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million 
Americans.
        > > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets 
face it
        they
        > > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone 
else to break
        the
        > > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German 
defeat.
        > >
        > > America declined the League of Nations according to their 
own self
        interest.
        > >
        > > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both 
sides to the
        > > middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once in, 
least damaged,
        they
        > > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
        > >
        > > Geez!
        > >
        > > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get 
me
        > > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to 
runaways
        that
        > > did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years being 
        "americanized"
        > > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
        > >
        > > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
        > >
        > > John
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "F. A." 
        > > To: 
        > > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
        > > Subject: U571...
        > >
        > > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so 
it‘s been out
        for
        > > a while
        > > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it 
was so... so
        > > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers 
acknowledge the
        Enigma
        > > machine
        > > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even 
entered the
        war.
        > > So
        > > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news 
group, for whom
        I
        > > respect
        > > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a 
story? Take
        out
        > > British,
        > > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly 
not trying to
        > > start a
        > > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close 
range, and at
        > > 200 
        > > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap 
date!?
        > > >
        > > > disillusioned... again,
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Francois
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > --------------------------------------------------------
        > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
        > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
        > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
        > > message body.
        >
        --------------------------------------------------------
        NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
        to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
        to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
        message body.
Any chance you could just reply to jgow@home.com?
Then we could just discuss it like gentlemen....if 
that would
be what we are...
LOL!
John
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  F.
  A. 
  To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca 
  Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 
1:49
  AM
  Subject: Re: Was U571... kind 
of getting
  off topic now though...
  John
   Oh crap, now I did it
   Admittedly not everyone likes Ralph or Mike or Grant. I 
didn‘t
  realize Ralph was cheap, popcorn? I don‘t quite follow. And I‘m not 
really
  sure how Ralph is about the same as Grant Devine, perhaps you can 
enlighten
  me. What I do understand of Klein‘s politics, is that he wanted to cut 
our
  costs, cut our taxes and get the province out of being in business. 
Which is
  precisely what Albertans wanted him to do in the last 2 elections. The 
fact
  is... it worked! Though he probably went a wee bit too far on the 
hospital
  issue here in Calgary. Other than that, it‘s really pretty darn good 
here. Our
  taxes are down, I‘m busier than I‘ve ever been in my life and 
unemployement
  has hit 4 in Calgary, very close to the 2.7 theoritical limit and 
our debt
  will cease to exist in 24 months a tthe current rate of repayment. As 
well, I
  wasn‘t aware that Ralph was oblivious of the country, can you 
elaborate?
  I wasn‘t trying to rile you up. I was just venting a spleen. 
Besides, I
  prefer sticking to CF/military topics... 
  all the best, Francois  
  Gow wrote:


    HOT ****!!To get off 
the topic with
    you, yes, that is in fact politics, isn‘t it? But to bleed off 
extra
    cash becomes a politician‘s job...now us tax payers do not like 
this...but
    Lucien has done it very well. And might I add, I DO NOT LIKE 
Ralph
    Klein or Mike Harris, because they are about the same as Grant 
Devine.
    Klein with his obliviousness of the country, his cheapness that is 
known
    across the country...cannot even buy popcorn for himslef, let alone
    others...but you Albertans are a case to yourselves I have sisters 
and
    sister-in-laws here...Mike Harris is a 
weak kneed
    opportunist who was lucky enough to be borne to a millionaire father 
and who
    has never had to work in the real world. Cannot even come up 
with an
    honest answer to who he supports federally in an election. Not 
    surprising, he‘s not very honest in anything else either. Wife 
basher
    type that can‘t stay married...but those millionaires that inherited 
their
    cash don‘t give much of a damn...could you see Mikey, Ralph or 
Lucien in a
    uniform, serving their country? Remember that on voting
    daysJohn

      ----- Original Message -----
      From:
      F.
      A.
      To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
      Sent: Sunday, October 22, 
2000 1:10
      AM
      Subject: Re: Was U571... 
kind of
      getting off topic now though...John,
       Actually, I was born 
and
      raised in Alberta, yep, that makes me a good ol‘ boy  I 
may come
      from 14 generations of Quebecois, but believe me I‘m 
not a
      hyphenated Canadian. My father left the Gaspe in 1954, joining the 
LdSH,
      he specifically requested to join an English speaking Regt. He had 
had
      enough of the backwater politics even then. He was only the second 
member
      of the family to join an English Regt, all the others had served 
with
      French speaking units since the Riel Rebellion. And when he took a 
medical
      discharge in 1968 while we were in Valcatier, he requested the 
move back
      to Calgary. I personally believe Lucien is nothing more than a 
political
      opportunist, and more than just a little deluded. I hope that my 
family
      back in Quebec finally figures out what the PQ/BQ, the educational 
elite
      and the French language media have all been doing for the past 20 
years.
      That is pulling the wool over their eyes. Ok, now I‘ve done it...
      completely digressed. Please no flames, unless I really deserve 
it.

      Francois in Calgary, honest! 
      Gow wrote:
      I‘m beginning to really like your 
thoughts, guy.
        Maybe there is a possibility between Quebec and ...dare I 
write it in
        the same line ...no Saskatchewan...
        LOL!
        And if I‘m being realistic, Lucien does do a damned fine job 
as a
        premier in attracting federal attention to his province.
        Oh well. We are Canadians, given all that. 
Chest
        beating would probably be reason to kick us collectively out 
of the
        Olympics or something...
        Good Night!
        John ----- Original Message ----- From: "F. A."
        ltzzzzzzz@telusplanet.netgt To: 
ltarmy@cipherlogic.on.cagt
        Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 12:16 AM Subject: Re: 
U571...
        gt John, gt
        gt Don‘t 
worry, I
        wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I just found the 
gt movie
        well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well, I 
        always gt have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed 
director‘s
        cut, all nearly 3 hours of it. gt gt Thanks! 
gt
        gt Francois gt gt gt gt Gow wrote: 
        gt gt gt Its the money Francios gt gt 
gt
        gt The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies 
by the
        Czechs gt gt and/or Poles gt gt gt gt 
the RN
        capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the "code" 
used
        gt gt for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not 
being
        tricked. Not to gt gt argue Enigma 
was an
        enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of WWII they 
gt gt
        would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the 
world
        may gt gt be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that 
got it
        through to us. gt gt gt gt Hollywood is a 
money-making
        machine, catering to 300 million Americans. gt gt They 
get a lot
        of credit for participation in WWI but lets face it they 
gt
        gt were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone 
else to
        break the gt gt front, and Russians bled the German 
atack to
        ensure German defeat. gt gt gt gt America 
declined the
        League of Nations according to their own self interest. 
gt
        gt gt gt They sat back and made the big money in WWII, 
playing
        both sides to the gt gt middle until finally kicked into 
the
        conflict. Once in, least damaged, they gt gt
        "carpet-bagged" their way through. gt gt gt gt 
Geez!
        gt gt gt gt Francois, I know your grandfather 
was a
        R22e, but sdon‘t get me gt gt started...have been to 
Hearst and
        Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways that gt gt did 
not want
        to get into it. Have spent umpteen years being 
"americanized"
        gt gt to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so! 
        gt gt gt gt If its a crappy, untrue movie, just 
say so!
        gt gt gt gt John gt gt ----- Original 
Message
        ----- gt gt From: "F. A." 
ltzzzzzzz@telusplanet.netgt
        gt gt To: ltarmy@cipherlogic.on.cagt gt gt 
Sent:
        Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM gt gt Subject: 
U571...
        gt gt gt gt gt I just watched U-571... sigh. 
Very
        disappointed, okay so it‘s been out for gt gt a 
while
        gt gt gt old news and I took my time. I was sadly 
dismayed,
        it was so... so gt gt gt hollywoodizied! Only in the 
credits
        the producers acknowledge the Enigma gt gt machine 
gt
        gt gt was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US 
even
        entered the war. gt gt So gt gt gt perhaps 
I ask
        this of our American friends on the news group, for whom I 
gt
        gt respect gt gt gt their opinion, is this the only 
way
        Hollywood can tell a story? Take out gt gt British, 
gt
        gt gt Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? 
Certainly not
        trying to gt gt start a gt gt gt pissing 
contest, but
        sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at gt gt 
200 
        gt gt gt meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse 
like a
        cheap date!? gt gt gt gt gt gt 
disillusioned...
        again, gt gt gt gt gt gt gt gt gt 
Francois
        gt gt gt gt gt gt gt gt gt 
gt
        -------------------------------------------------------- 
gt gt
        NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message 
gt
        gt to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish 
gt
        gt to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the gt 
gt
        message body. gt
        --------------------------------------------------------
        NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a 
message to
        majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish to 
remove,
        with the line "unsubscribe army" in the message

body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 07:59:09 -0700*
Gonna go out on a limb here, with an un-substantiated war story. The
Honourary Colonel of my Regiment had served with the Algonquin sp?
Regiment during WW II. He not-so-fondly told a tale of some Canadian and
maybe other units fighting their way up to a city. It was quite a fight, I
gather, and had some strategic value. All that was left was to clear some
remaining pockets of resistance, when they were ordered to pull back to the
outskirts of the city. This order came from much higher up, supposedly. Next
thing they knew, fresh American troops went rolling by, and a couple of days
later, were credited with "liberating" the city. I never took the Colonel to
task regarding the story, but an interesting tale, nonetheless.
Ubique
MacF
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
The reason most people fail instead of succeed is that they trade what they
want most for what they want at the moment.
--cited in the Best of Bits  Pieces
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: U571...
> Very little comes out of Hollywood that is truly original...A good number
of
> our "hit" tv shows i.e. All in the Family, Sanford and Son were British
> shows changed to American venues.  But being egocentric as we are,
Hollywood
> assumes that very few Americans would pay to see a film about the RN.
Which
> many down here would assume means, "Registered Nurse".  After all, "Das
> Boot" wasn‘t a hit, was it?  Sometimes we can be a lot like the Russians,
> changing history to fit our perception of our self-importance.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:17:17 -0600*
Francois from Ian Edwards:
Why did you waste your time viewing that film? All the Canadian reviews
and most that I‘ve seen American reviews pointed out the lies. 
And it‘s been hard to avoid the reviews. Oh, perhaps your buddies
insisted you join them. Well, we all make mistakes.

Me. Haven‘t/won‘t see it.
Must be more exciting things to do in Calgary. You could have stayed
home and watched the Esks beat the Argos in the comfort of your own
livingroom.Cheaper popcorn too. About as exciting, although my wife
stayed with it until the Greene and Gold were up 41 to zip.
"F. A." wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
>         Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I just found the
> movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well, I always
> have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all nearly 3 hours of it.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Francois
> 
> Gow wrote:
> 
> > Its the money Francios
> >
> > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the Czechs
> > and/or Poles
> >
> > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the "code" used
> > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.    Not to
> > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of WWII they
> > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the world may
> > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
> >
> > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans.
> > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face it they
> > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else to break the
> > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German defeat.
> >
> > America declined the League of Nations according to their own self interest.
> >
> > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides to the
> > middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once in, least damaged, they
> > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
> >
> > Geez!
> >
> > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
> > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways that
> > did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years being "americanized"
> > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
> >
> > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "F. A." 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
> > Subject: U571...
> >
> > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s been out for
> > a while
> > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so... so
> > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge the Enigma
> > machine
> > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered the war.
> > So
> > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group, for whom I
> > respect
> > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story? Take out
> > British,
> > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not trying to
> > start a
> > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at
> > 200 
> > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
> > >
> > > disillusioned... again,
> > >
> > >
> > > Francois
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:34:27 -0600*
--------------C04A00263B5570C3B04F45E1
Ian,
        Yeah, I know, I completly forgot about the reviews, it‘s my story and I‘m
sticking to it.  Didn‘t watch the football game, not much of a fan actually, been
to busy with a variety of projects, research on the history of army cadets, working
on the new military museum project for Vernon and so on.
Francois
Ian Edwards wrote:
> Francois from Ian Edwards:
>
> Why did you waste your time viewing that film? All the Canadian reviews
> and most that I‘ve seen American reviews pointed out the lies.
> And it‘s been hard to avoid the reviews. Oh, perhaps your buddies
> insisted you join them. Well, we all make mistakes.
>
> Me. Haven‘t/won‘t see it.
>
> Must be more exciting things to do in Calgary. You could have stayed
> home and watched the Esks beat the Argos in the comfort of your own
> livingroom.Cheaper popcorn too. About as exciting, although my wife
> stayed with it until the Greene and Gold were up 41 to zip.
>
> "F. A." wrote:
> >
> > John,
> >
> >         Don‘t worry, I wasn‘t going to do any chestbeating. I just found the
> > movie well, annoying I guess. I was expecting so much more. Oh well, I always
> > have ‘Das Boot‘ in German letterboxed director‘s cut, all nearly 3 hours of it.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Francois
> >
> > Gow wrote:
> >
> > > Its the money Francios
> > >
> > > The Enigma machine was stolen, and delivered to the Allies by the Czechs
> > > and/or Poles
> > >
> > > the RN capture of a submarine gave a code breaking break in the "code" used
> > > for the subs alone, and/or that Room 40 was not being tricked.    Not to
> > > argue Enigma was an enormous advantage to the Allied Forces of WWII they
> > > would have won without it, but at a harder, greater cost, so the world may
> > > be grateful to the Czechs and Poles that got it through to us.
> > >
> > > Hollywood is a money-making machine, catering to 300 million Americans.
> > > They get a lot of credit for participation in WWI but lets face it they
> > > were an ineffective force Canadians did more than anyone else to break the
> > > front, and Russians bled the German atack to ensure German defeat.
> > >
> > > America declined the League of Nations according to their own self interest.
> > >
> > > They sat back and made the big money in WWII, playing both sides to the
> > > middle until finally kicked into the conflict.  Once in, least damaged, they
> > > "carpet-bagged" their way through.
> > >
> > > Geez!
> > >
> > > Francois, I know your grandfather was a R22e, but sdon‘t get me
> > > started...have been to Hearst and Kapuskasing et al homes to runaways that
> > > did not want to get into it.  Have spent umpteen years being "americanized"
> > > to death that Sam is the Man and it just ain‘t so!
> > >
> > > If its a crappy, untrue movie, just say so!
> > >
> > > John
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "F. A." 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:22 PM
> > > Subject: U571...
> > >
> > > > I just watched U-571... sigh. Very disappointed, okay so it‘s been out for
> > > a while
> > > > old news and I took my time. I was sadly dismayed, it was so... so
> > > > hollywoodizied! Only in the credits the producers acknowledge the Enigma
> > > machine
> > > > was first captured by the RN, 9 months before the US even entered the war.
> > > So
> > > > perhaps I ask this of our American friends on the news group, for whom I
> > > respect
> > > > their opinion, is this the only way Hollywood can tell a story? Take out
> > > British,
> > > > Canadian or who have you and insert Americans? Certainly not trying to
> > > start a
> > > > pissing contest, but sheesh!! 35  depth charges at close range, and at
> > > 200 
> > > > meters? and the sub still didn‘t collapse like a cheap date!?
> > > >
> > > > disillusioned... again,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Francois
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > > message body.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------C04A00263B5570C3B04F45E1
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard 
n:ArseneaultFrancois 
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and extreme environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
x-mozilla-cpt:-12336
fn:www.avscanada.com
end:vcard
--------------C04A00263B5570C3B04F45E1--
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:43:55 -0600*
History/self-importance?
No different than any imperial nation throughout history. The Brits,
during their Empire days, convinced their own population that they had
colonies for the sake of the natives. Only difference is that they did
it with more style, "bags of swank", etc. than the Yanks. Some natives
also believed it for a while at least until 1914-18 let‘s hope that
the current "natives" never believe in Hollywood, although I fear many
do.
DHall058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Very little comes out of Hollywood that is truly original...A good number of
> our "hit" tv shows i.e. All in the Family, Sanford and Son were British
> shows changed to American venues.  But being egocentric as we are, Hollywood
> assumes that very few Americans would pay to see a film about the RN. Which
> many down here would assume means, "Registered Nurse".  After all, "Das
> Boot" wasn‘t a hit, was it?  Sometimes we can be a lot like the Russians,
> changing history to fit our perception of our self-importance.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Jay Digital" <todesengel@home.com>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:12:33 -0400*
Along a similar vein there‘s a new movie coming out based on the German POW
camp in WW2, Colditz I‘m not 100 on the spelling. As history goes this
camp was predominantly British for most of the war and at one point near the
end was entirely full of British officers. The new film being released has
cast the roles of the prisoners as Americans which I find quite offensive
since it undermines the efforts and lives of the real people who were there.
That‘s Hollywood. Go figure.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:33:03 -0400*
Two excellent books if you‘re interested in checking out
"Colditz" by P.R. Reid and "The Latter Days at Colditz"
Both excellent reading, Read was one of the escapists that successfully got
away.  Another was Airey Neave, murdered by the IRA in the early eighties
while serving as an MP in Britain.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Digital" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: U571...
> Along a similar vein there‘s a new movie coming out based on the German
POW
> camp in WW2, Colditz I‘m not 100 on the spelling. As history goes this
> camp was predominantly British for most of the war and at one point near
the
> end was entirely full of British officers. The new film being released has
> cast the roles of the prisoners as Americans which I find quite offensive
> since it undermines the efforts and lives of the real people who were
there.
>
> That‘s Hollywood. Go figure.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Mon, 23 Oct 2000 07:58:20 -0600*
If you‘re hooked into Ian Newby say Hi from Don Schepens.
----- Original Message -----
From: F. A. 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: U571...
> Dave,
>
> Thank you, I‘m afraid you‘re right. My wife commented precisely that the
> American audince, for which Holloywood iproducing movies for in the first
place,
> probably wouldn‘t pay to see a film about the RN or Poles or Czechs
capturing
> the enigma machine. Wht concerns me is that too many people will believe
this as
> ‘fact‘, eventually history gets twisted. But perhaps I‘m wrong...
>
> Francois
>
> P.S.  I‘m still trying to get a hold of Ian Newby for you, I will forward
> privately the only address/phn number I have...
>
>
> DHall058@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Very little comes out of Hollywood that is truly original...A good
number of
> > our "hit" tv shows i.e. All in the Family, Sanford and Son were
British
> > shows changed to American venues.  But being egocentric as we are,
Hollywood
> > assumes that very few Americans would pay to see a film about the RN.
Which
> > many down here would assume means, "Registered Nurse".  After all, "Das
> > Boot" wasn‘t a hit, was it?  Sometimes we can be a lot like the
Russians,
> > changing history to fit our perception of our self-importance.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
>
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *DHall058@aol.com* on *Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:19:54 EDT*
Too true.  Having been raised during the Eisenhower/Kennedy era, we were 
taught in school that we weren‘t an Empire, unlike those British people, so 
any facts to the contrary of this myth were ignored.  That helped us buy into 
the Vietnam thing for 20 years or so.  Which reminds me, what‘s the general 
opinion of Mel Gibson‘s last blockbuster, The Patriot? The word was that the 
British were portrayed in an extremely inaccurate fashion Surprise!...
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