# Can Parents Trigger Release/Withdraw Consent for Minor Recruits



## LPike (21 Mar 2016)

Hello all,

I recently joined the PRes and am going through basic training. However, my parents are none too happy about it. They signed the form stating that I could join (I am a minor), however, recently they have gone sour. They keep threatening to "email my chain of command" and force them to release me, and they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home (and emailing my COC if I disagree).

My question is, is this even legal, or possible. Will my COC actually go with it should they email them?

TIA, and cheers!


----------



## mariomike (21 Mar 2016)

How old are you now?


----------



## AbdullahD (21 Mar 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> How old are you now?



as per his profile he looks to be 17


----------



## mariomike (21 Mar 2016)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> as per his profile he looks to be 17



Saw that. Wondered if he may have had a birthday since then.


----------



## DAA (21 Mar 2016)

LPike said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> I recently joined the PRes and am going through basic training. However, my parents are none too happy about it. They signed the form stating that I could join (I am a minor), however, recently they have gone sour. They keep threatening to "email my chain of command" and force them to release me, and they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home (and emailing my COC if I disagree).
> My question is, is this even legal, or possible. Will my COC actually go with it should they email them?
> TIA, and cheers!



If you are still a "minor" (ie; under 18), then anything is possible.  If you are "18" now, it's your decision what to do   If you are under "18" you best bring this up with your local Unit and get them to seek higher level advice.


----------



## LPike (21 Mar 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> How old are you now?





			
				AbdullahD said:
			
		

> as per his profile he looks to be 17



17. Turned 17 last sunday, had a BMQ birthday.


----------



## LPike (21 Mar 2016)

DAA said:
			
		

> If you are still a "minor" (IE; under 18), then anything is possible.  If you are "18" now, it's your decision what to do   If you are under "18" you best bring this up with your local Unit and get them to seek higher level advice.



Thanks. I think that is, quite unfortunately, the case. I have considered approaching my unit, but to be quite frank, it's a bit embarrassing.

Cheers, thanks for your input.


----------



## AbdullahD (21 Mar 2016)

LPike said:
			
		

> Thanks. I think that is, quite unfortunately, the case. I have considered approaching my unit, but to be quite frank, it's a bit embarrassing.
> 
> Cheers, thanks for your input.



To be honest, just toe the line and be an extra good kid. I have my own kids, so take it for what its worth.

Be a good kid, tell your parents all the good things you're  getting from the reserves and pray for the best.

my .02 take with salt


----------



## the 48th regulator (21 Mar 2016)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> To be honest, just toe the line and be an extra good kid. I have my own kids, so take it for what its worth.
> 
> Be a good kid, tell your parents all the good things you're  getting from the reserves and pray for the best.
> 
> my .02 take with salt



Well Said.

LPike, I know what you are going through.,  My parents were not thrilled with me joining.  I did not handle it well with them.

Try, pleas try, if you can to sit them down and explain why you enjoy going.  You got to understand, your parents are looking out for your best interest too.  Listen to why they don't want you there, don't pull a "Tess" and lose your Raspberries!!


I hope it works for you brother!


----------



## mariomike (21 Mar 2016)

LPike said:
			
		

> However, my parents are none too happy about it.



LPike, not trying to influence you one way or the other, but in case you have not read it already, there is 20 pages of advice here,

How to get family on board  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/13678.0;nowap

For what it is worth, I joined the militia when I was 16, but my parents were on board with it.


----------



## LPike (21 Mar 2016)

AbdullahD said:
			
		

> To be honest, just toe the line and be an extra good kid. I have my own kids, so take it for what its worth.
> 
> Be a good kid, tell your parents all the good things you're  getting from the reserves and pray for the best.
> 
> my .02 take with salt



Well, one tries. I'll start seeing what I can do. Thanks for the advice.



			
				mariomike said:
			
		

> LPike, not trying to influence you one way or the other, but in case you have not read it already, there is 20 pages of advice here,
> 
> How to get family on board
> https://army.ca/forums/threads/13678.0;nowap



I hadn't seen that upon my trawling of army.ca. Looks like I have a good nights reading set out for me. 



			
				John Tescione said:
			
		

> Well Said.
> 
> LPike, I know what you are going through.,  My parents were not thrilled with me joining.  I did not handle it well with them.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the words of advice. I know throwing a tantrum is hardly going to help my case, after all!


----------



## FJAG (21 Mar 2016)

I've been asked to throw my two cents into this discussion because of my legal background in the CF but honestly, I have no idea which way this would go. I would think that someone from within the CF recruiting system should have encountered this before and perhaps have an internal policy instruction to rely on.

Legally there are two competing issues:

One - enrolment is a one time event and the regulations simply state that the consent is required to effect the enrolment. There is nothing in the enrolment legislation/regulations that requires that the consent to be a continuing consent. 

Two - childhood (and parental authority) is a continuing event until the age majority is reached or the child becomes legally emancipated.

In my humble and very legalistic view, the consent is a one-time consent to enrolment and not required for continued service in the CF. Once freely given, and once enrolment is completed, the consent is no longer revocable and the individual remains a member. And as I've said many many times before -- I'm retired now, no longer practice law and this is therefore not a legal opinion but merely a wild a**ed educated guess.

That said, the CF is a terribly risk averse organization and would undoubtedly not wish to be involved in a hissy fit between a son and his parents.

The line that you use ". . . they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home . . ." makes me wonder if their position on your military service is more a manner of disciplining you for other issues rather than a fundamental disagreement with military service. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

I agree with what most of the other folks here have said: the issue is one that you need to resolve with your parents. The chain of command is not about to take your side and tell them to get into line for you. At best your parents' threatened actions will be an embarrassment for you and at worst can lead to you being considered an administrative burden for your unit.

Best of luck.

 :cheers:


----------



## Pieman (21 Mar 2016)

> They signed the form stating that I could join (I am a minor), however, recently they have gone sour. They keep threatening to "email my chain of command" and force them to release me, and they have stopped me from attending training nights should I make a mistake at home (and emailing my COC if I disagree).



Do your parents have any concept in what you are actually doing? It's not the boy scouts you are in, and if it's responsibility and dicipline they are trying to teach you, your obligations to the CF are right up there with that concept. 

Perhaps getting them a tour of where you work will help smooth things over?


----------



## Fishbone Jones (22 Mar 2016)

Just make sure that your Chain of Command (CoC) are informed of the situation and YOUR wishes about remaining in the CAF. They don't need to be caught out in left field on this.


----------



## RocketRichard (22 Mar 2016)

I don't believe the C.F. would be 'in loco parentis' as teachers and school administrators are.  The advice given by others a) to ensure your unit is aware of potential opposition by your parents and b) trying to get your parents on board is sound.  Good luck.


----------



## ModlrMike (22 Mar 2016)

FJAG said:
			
		

> I've been asked to throw my two cents into this discussion because of my legal background in the CF but honestly, I have no idea which way this would go. I would think that someone from within the CF recruiting system should have encountered this before and perhaps have an internal policy instruction to rely on.
> 
> Legally there are two competing issues:
> 
> ...



I would add:

Three - once consent is given for the child to enrol in a military force, does that not provide a level of emancipation?


----------



## donaldk (22 Mar 2016)

One line I tossed to my mother back in the day when she thought negatively about me joining PRes was "Want to pay for my and -my brother's- university costs?  We need this for school - You can't afford it, this debate ends now".  If your parents finances are rough, you can start a similar debate with them - and PRes can pay very well if you work it right (When security changes with 9/11 happened... I made good money doing boats/gate duty).

I Joined at 16 in the PRes (for the short time they allowed this)... 15 years later as a RegF member I am not regretting my move.


----------



## mariomike (22 Mar 2016)

donaldk said:
			
		

> I Joined at 16 in the PRes (for the short time they allowed this)...



I believe they still do...

•Reserve Force - Applicants may be 16 years of age if they are also enrolled as a full-time high school student.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#who

Reserve Force joining age has been much discussed on here,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+age+16&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=tTnxVp2fFOiM8QfdpIHwAw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22age+16%22



			
				AbdullahD said:
			
		

> Be a good kid, tell your parents all the good things you're  getting from the reserves and pray for the best.



This is in the "How to get family on board discussion", but I will add it here,

Info for Families 
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/forfamilies-151
"The many advantages of joining the Reserve Force include working part time without long-term commitment, serving in the local community, and gaining valuable skills that will apply to alternate careers."


----------



## FJAG (22 Mar 2016)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> I would add:
> 
> Three - once consent is given for the child to enrol in a military force, does that not provide a level of emancipation?



No. Emancipation is a legal process supervised by the courts where a child is freed from the legal control of his/her parents/guardians and concurrently the parent(s) are freed of the legal parental responsibility to provide, house, clothe  etc for the child

 :cheers:


----------



## tyorke0 (12 Mar 2017)

Not sure if the this is the right spot for this but my question is if your already in the primary reserves and your parents want to take you out of it ( I am 16 ) are they able to withdraw consent and pull me out of the army? 


Thanks


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (12 Mar 2017)

As usual, a recruiting office will be your best bet to ask that question.

In practice, I suspect you will find that parental consent is required to enrol. Once enrolled, your parents play no part in the process anymore. The military is not a local sports team or boy scout troop from which, your parents can "pull you out" if, say, they don't like your college marks, etc.. Once in, you are solely in charge of your ongoing service with a reserve unit.

I other words, if parents of a 16/17 years old seaman at my reserve units came to _tell_ me they don't want their son/daughter to serve in the military anymore, I would tell them in a nice, polite but no uncertain away to go fly a kite - it's none of their business anymore.

I may be wrong here (don't know recent decisions) but actually being a member of the CAF - with your parents authorization at the time of enrolment - has been considered a favourable fact when a minor applies for a statement of "emancipation*" from a court.

* emancipation is a legal status whereby a minor is authorized, from now on, by a court to have all of the rights (save voting) and obligations of an adult without the need for parental/guardian authorizations.


----------



## runormal (12 Mar 2017)

What are their concerns? Perhaps you can answers to some of their concerns on here. You can't be deployed until you are 18, so I'm not sure what the real concern would be.

Essentially telling your parents to "Fuck Off"  isn't the best course of action because you presumably live with them, however it's your life so it would be beneficial to both of you if you two can meet in the middle.


----------



## Ryan_T (12 Mar 2017)

tyorke0 said:
			
		

> Not sure if the this is the right spot for this but my question is if your already in the primary reserves and your parents want to take you out of it ( I am 16 ) are they able to withdraw consent and pull me out of the army?
> 
> 
> Thanks


It takes time to leave.. you cant just hand in notice and two weeks you are out. It can takes months.

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ryan_T (12 Mar 2017)

Thats on a personal side of things. You still have a job to go to. And in this case, its servicing the country. 

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## George Wallace (12 Mar 2017)

The PRes are completely "VOLUNTARY".  The only punishment for not showing up for "Parades" and training is that the person after a period of four weeks will be put on the NES list and the Release process will begin.  If the person's parents keep them at home, causing them to miss training, then they fall under those conditions, personal or not.  

The way this discussion is going is all speculation.  No one, except the OP, knows what circumstances the OP is finding themself in.  If it continues for too long, the OP will have likely moved out, got married, and raise kids who they can then sign authorization to join the PRes.


----------



## George Wallace (12 Mar 2017)

Ryan_T said:
			
		

> Thats on a personal side of things. You still have a job to go to. And in this case, its servicing the country.
> 
> Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk



 :rofl:

Did you really intend that to be "servicing"?


----------



## Ryan_T (12 Mar 2017)

Reserves is still armed forces.. i was in there.. and i dont appreciate you laughing about it.

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## dimsum (12 Mar 2017)

Ryan_T said:
			
		

> Reserves is still armed forces.. i was in there.. and i dont appreciate you laughing about it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk



Relax.  I think GW meant that it's "serving", not "servicing" the country.


----------



## Oldgateboatdriver (12 Mar 2017)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The PRes are completely "VOLUNTARY".  The only punishment for not showing up for "Parades" and training is that the person after a period of four weeks will be put on the NES list and the Release process will begin.  If the person's parents keep them at home, causing them to miss training, then they fall under those conditions, personal or not.
> 
> The way this discussion is going is all speculation.  No one, except the OP, knows what circumstances the OP is finding themself in.  If it continues for too long, the OP will have likely moved out, got married, and raise kids who they can then sign authorization to join the PRes.



Don't confuse the fact that reserves are voluntary, meaning there are no set terms of service where duration is concerned and a reservist may "quit" any time he/she wants unless called out under the NDA (i.e. war), and parental consent to enrol. As FJAG indicated (above now that the thread has been merged), consent to enrolment is a one time thing as far as the military is concerned. There is no "continuing" consent requirement. In the present can the poster asked specifically about withdrawal of parental consent after enrolment. There is no such animal. However, how parents and child interact at home and as a result, the issue of wether or not the "child" should voluntarily ask for termination of service is up to them to work out privately. One thing is sure, however: the parents cannot just show up at a reserve units and ask for their child to be "voluntary" released from the military. Only the CAF member himself/herself can do that.


----------



## Ryan_T (12 Mar 2017)

My typo. Stupid auto correct.

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## Quirky (12 Mar 2017)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> :rofl:
> 
> Did you really intend that to be "servicing"?



Autocorrect gone wrong, or in this case, hilariously right.   ;D


----------



## Ryan_T (12 Mar 2017)

Quirky said:
			
		

> Autocorrect gone wrong, or in this case, hilariously right.   ;D


I cant figure out how to turn it off in my phone

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## tyorke0 (12 Mar 2017)

Ok interesting thanks everyone.  I will try and ensure that nothing goes any further as to them stopping me from training.  They haven't tried anything yet other than saying they really don't want me in and trying to convince me to quit but I just wanted to know if they could actually make a call and get me out. Which I now know they can't, everything else has to be worked out st home,  so thanks everyone. Just one last question.  It was mentioned about emancipation if I did theoretically do that and win. Once I am17 could I join ref force? Because if it's 17 with parent permission and you no longer need parent permission can you just join? Thanks again


----------



## Ryan_T (12 Mar 2017)

tyorke0 said:
			
		

> Ok interesting thanks everyone.  I will try and ensure that nothing goes any further as to them stopping me from training.  They haven't tried anything yet other than saying they really don't want me in and trying to convince me to quit but I just wanted to know if they could actually make a call and get me out. Which I now know they can't, everything else has to be worked out st home,  so thanks everyone.


When i left the reserves, it took months after my letter was handed in before they granted the release.

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## tyorke0 (12 Mar 2017)

Ryan_T said:
			
		

> When i left the reserves, it took months after my letter was handed in before they granted the release.
> 
> Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk



I am still in BMQ so the release is pretty quick. Someone in my BMQ now applied 2 weeks or a week ago not sure specifcally and he is already done next week.  I think it's just cause we're still in BMQ. But who knows


----------



## Ryan_T (12 Mar 2017)

tyorke0 said:
			
		

> I am still in BMQ so the release is pretty quick. Someone in my BMQ now applied 2 weeks or a week ago not sure specifcally and he is already done next week.  I think it's just cause we're still in BMQ. But who knows


I guess its a little different for res force BMQ. Reg force is longer than that to get released.

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## tyorke0 (12 Mar 2017)

Ryan_T said:
			
		

> I guess its a little different for res force BMQ. Reg force is longer than that to get released.
> 
> Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk



Oh I see.  It probably helps that for us there's so much time in between training (Mon to fri) that they can get paper work through faster not sure tho.


----------



## Ryan_T (12 Mar 2017)

tyorke0 said:
			
		

> Oh I see.  It probably helps that for us there's so much time in between training (Mon to fri) that they can get paper work through faster not sure tho.


Maybe.. are you enjoying basic?

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


----------



## mariomike (12 Mar 2017)

tyorke0 said:
			
		

> Once I am17 could I join ref force? Because if it's 17 with parent permission and you no longer need parent permission can you just join?



Who can apply:

To apply to the Forces, you must:
1.Be a Canadian Citizen.
2.Be 17 years of age, with parental consent, or older, except: 
•Regular Officer Training Plan – Junior applications must be 16 or older.
•Reserve Force - Applicants may be 16 years of age if they are also enrolled as a full-time high school student.

3.Have completed at least Grade 10 or Secondaire IV (in Quebec). 
•Certain entry programs and occupations require higher levels of education. 



			
				tyorke0 said:
			
		

> I am still in BMQ so the release is pretty quick. Someone in my BMQ now applied 2 weeks or a week ago not sure specifcally and he is already done next week.  I think it's just cause we're still in BMQ. But who knows





			
				tyorke0 said:
			
		

> It probably helps that for us there's so much time in between training (Mon to fri) that they can get paper work through faster not sure tho.



VR processing will vary between PRes and Regular Force.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> The PRes are completely "VOLUNTARY".  The only punishment for not showing up for "Parades" and training is that the person after a period of four weeks will be put on the NES list and the Release process will begin.



VR during BMQ/Indoc?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/112121.0
5 pages,

See also,

VR during BMQ
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+vr+bmq&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=xAXGWOzsKqWC8Qft85noBA&gws_rd=ssl

If you plan to VR from the PRes and re-apply for the Regular Force?  You may wish to read the 37-page "Getting Back in" mega-thread.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (13 Mar 2017)

tyorke0 said:
			
		

> Ok interesting thanks everyone.  I will try and ensure that nothing goes any further as to them stopping me from training.  They haven't tried anything yet other than saying they really don't want me in and trying to convince me to quit but I just wanted to know if they could actually make a call and get me out. Which I now know they can't, everything else has to be worked out st home,  so thanks everyone. Just one last question.  It was mentioned about emancipation if I did theoretically do that and win. Once I am17 could I join ref force? Because if it's 17 with parent permission and you no longer need parent permission can you just join? Thanks again



According to you, you have already enrolled in the Canadian Forces.  It does not matter whether it is regular, reserve or special force, you're already in.  If someone in the reserves wishes to go regular, they do not "join again".  They do a component transfer.

Now, as a purely hypothetical exercise (and I would welcome learned comment from one of the ambulance chasers that frequent the site), if someone under the age of 18 wished to join the CF, the applicable federal law would apply.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/n-5/page-4.html#h-16


> When consent of parent or guardian required
> 
> (3) A person under the age of eighteen years shall not be enrolled without the consent of one of the parents or of the guardian of that person



The exact wording of that section of the National Defence Act apparently makes no accommodation for emancipated minors, nor does it refer to differing ages of majority in the individual provinces.


----------



## CountDC (25 Mar 2017)

Interestingly enough many years ago I had the displeasure of running into this situation and yes the son was released on the mothers say so. Don't know if he carried through with his comment to her though that he would be back in 6 months when he turned 18 and didn't need her approval.  In that case the mother apparently didn't understand the military used rifles and was very upset to see her son come out of the field all cammed up and carrying one when she stopped in for a surprise visit. :facepalm: :rofl:


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP (30 Mar 2017)

I honestly doubt the CF is going to put up much of a legal defense if a parent insists that their 17 year old reservist child quit the military. It's probably not a precedent they really want to fight, nor is the retention of a part time reservist with likely no more than BMQ completed really worth it to the CAF. As said before, a parent could very well just refuse to allow their child to attend training nights until the reservist becomes non-effective strength and is thus released.

A more interesting case would be a Regular Force member that has completed BMQ but is under the age of 18, that may very well be a whole different ball game.


----------



## mariomike (30 Mar 2017)

RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
			
		

> A more interesting case would be a Regular Force member that has completed BMQ but is under the age of 18, that may very well be a whole different ball game.



I'm not a lawyer, but I read this,



			
				FJAG said:
			
		

> In my humble and very legalistic view, the consent is a one-time consent to enrolment and not required for continued service in the CF. Once freely given, and once enrolment is completed, the consent is no longer revocable and the individual remains a member. And as I've said many many times before -- I'm retired now, no longer practice law and this is therefore not a legal opinion but merely a wild a**ed educated guess.


----------

