# Wanna-be‘s / Posers



## R_J (25 Jul 2003)

As an introduction, I am a Reg Force Sgt in the PPCLI. I have 13 years full time experience to include 3 operational tours overseas (Croatia Sector West, Croatia Sector South-the Krajina, and Kosovo). I was told of this site by a Major in my reg‘t, and am following the additional advice of Recceguy. But, I‘ll get to the point.
My concern is over poser wanna-be‘s that pretend to be something they are not. The people who come to sites like this and dump their ego inflating BS on the users of this forum, hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. My case in point is the user "Wind Wolf".  
I have at least a dozen examples of his blatant lies (that has atracted a lot of attention from the real members of the army). I will start with this quote of his:

"I HAVE BEEN IN SOME OF THE WORST S--THOLES ,FROM SUDAN TO CYPRUS 6 UN TOURS. MORE SPILLED CANUCK BLOOD & GUTS THEN CILVS KNOW. TTRAINING,DISPL & COURAGE 
INSURED THAT WE SURVIDED TO FIGHT AGAIN.THE SIGS THAT WERE WITH USE ON MORE THAN 1 OCCASSION,FOUGHT 
JUST AS HARD AS WE DID. SO GET YOUR **** WIRED TIGHT & GET IT TOGETHER." 
THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT MAC & ORANGE. 
BUT I FINALY NOTICED THAT THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION WAS IF ANYBODY HAD SEEN COMBAT. 
WELL, I HAVE & IT AINT FUN OR COOL. PEOPLE DIE 
& THE THEY DIED BADLY. YOU NEVER FORGET THE SMELL OF BURNING FLESH OR THE TASTE OF FEAR FROM HEARING 
THAT AK ROUND SNAPPING BY YOUR HEAD @ MACH 3.THE CLOSES THING IN MOVIES THAT SHOW COMBAT IS SAVING PRIVATE RYAN. BUBBA THATS AS CLOSE AS YOU GET TO THE REAL DEAL. WHEN YOUR UTTER THE OATH TO SERVE,UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A GOOD POSSIBLITY THAT YOU WILL BE SHOT AT OR BE IN THE SH!T. YOUR TRAINING WILL TAKE OVER & YOU WILL EITHER LIVE OR NOT. YOU HAVE THE SAME CHANCE OF BEING RUN OVER BY A BUS AS DIE IN COMBAT, BUT DEAD IS STILL DEAD. IT TAKES A CERTAIN TYPE OF PERSON TO DEAL WITH WHAT YOU MAY SEE OR DO. DEALING WITH THE AFTERMATH OF A FIREFIGHT OR FULL BORE COMBAT IS ANOTHER STEP IN YOUR EVOLVLING INTO A SOLDIER. 
IT,S NOT FUN & GAMES, IT IS A LIFE LONG COMMITMENT 
TO UPHOLDING THE VALUES OF CANADA & SERVING WITH PRIDE. 

THESE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT & I COULD BE WRONG. BUT I SPENT 9YEARS & LOSE MORE THAN A FEW BUDDIES SO I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THEY DIED FOR NO REASON. THE GAVE EVERYTHING FOR THERE UNIT/COUNRTY & BUDDIES. KNOW ONE WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THEM." 

"Combat is not a game. Been there,did that,not fun. 
Nothing worse then having to tell a wife that her 
man is not coming back or kids that daddy has gone 
to heaven.It tears your soul. 

Sorry for the way i come across,but this is very important to me.I lost 3 good buddies in the space of approx 45 secs. You never forget." 

Look in the history- 
for starters, at no point were 4 Patricias killed in the same day during the entire time he claims to have served. There were 4 in Cyprus (over 8 years). Don‘t believe me, check it out:
 http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/ 

I‘ll start with that, but I know some of my buddies will be along shortly.


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## Skullboy (25 Jul 2003)

While I have never served in the Canadian Forces(My grandfather fought in W.W.I with the 72nd Seaforth Highlanders), I have the utmost respect for those who wear/have worn  the uniform and serve/served Canada.

  But one thing I can not stand, is self centered. egotistical wanna-be‘s who are trying to be something that they are not.These types should be exposed and put to task at every opportunity, until they learn that their lying ways will not be tolerated.Ever.

 Go get‘em R-J!!!!!

   SKBY.


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## Zoomie (25 Jul 2003)

As much as we appreciate your candor and your view on "Wind Wolf‘s" validity.  As far as we know you could be a 12 year old.  Don‘t take insult, I am just making a point.  On these types of forums we take everything said with a grain of salt.  
Could it be that he was referring to the deaths of the Patricia‘s at Tarnak Farms in Afghanistan?

I am sure that we look forward to your inputs in the variety of topics that come up here on the forum.

Welcome...


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## R_J (25 Jul 2003)

Zoomie, point noted, the soldiers who died there are part of what struck the nerve with my Maj friend. He was there, and he has sent several PMs to our friend Wind Wolf.
Wind Wolf‘s posts have serious flaws that most soldiers can pick out pretty quickly. From weapon specs, to real experiences, to the hard facts of history. I came here because there is a thread running at the forum I usually post at (User Name RobAK) about BSing Wanna-be‘s and this was brought up. What bothers me first of all is that this fake is using my cap badge to represent his lies. Secondly he is actually being believed by many young people who actually have an interest in joining the CF. And that, is not on.


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## KevinB (25 Jul 2003)

I happen to be in the same unit as Rob.

 I am a Cpl in 1 PPCLI - 


  http://nightoperations.com/C-7_A2.htm  

I wrote the above report, and I think you will agree it was not written by a 12yr old.






An ******* maybe...







Several Patricia‘s will be hoping onto this site in the next while to expose "WindWolf" and demand a retraction of what he has written.


 -Kevin


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## Nester (25 Jul 2003)

To get to the point...

There is a certain individual (Wind Wolf) who is so full of **** that it‘s become quite apparent that there is definately a problem.  I for one get quite pissed when I hear of his wonderful exploits with no facts to back it up and his answer is an obscure email that leaves you as confused and angry as when you first stumbled over his initial post(s). The person in question has a lot to answer for and I for one would like to see his explanation and apology to everyone on this forum(s) and in the CF.    

I‘m not here to start a flamewar by no means...just supporting R_J‘s post and looking for answers and get rid of this Troll and send his sorry ***  packing. 

My experiences:
UNPROFOR 93 2VP
SFOR 97 2VP


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## KevinB (25 Jul 2003)

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=14620 


Make up your own minds...


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## Garry (25 Jul 2003)

Hi.

Nice board you have here!

Kinda tough for a "first post" to come in swinging, but was told about a fellow making some outrageous claims over here (which is ok by me, free world) but doing so under the guise of a Regiment I have some respect for (not ok anymore)

After reading a bunch of "Windwolf‘s" posts, I‘ve gotta throw my support behind the PPCLI guys.

Windwolf‘s a fake.

On the other hand, I‘ve discovered a nice board. Thanks for the invite in!

Cheers-Garry


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## slavex (25 Jul 2003)

while I am not, nor have ever been in the Forces, I did think about it, and now regret not doing it. I have the utmost repsect for those that did and have left, and those that are still in. Guys like R-J, Kev, and the rest (forgive me for not naming all of you) are honourable guys, who‘s sole goal here, is to shut down the fake wannabee, Windwolf. I too have read his "action reports" and other trite BS that he has posted here. even I, a simple gunnut can find many many faults with his posts, and it truly saddens me that he has pulled the wool over the eyes of some people here, and likely elsewhere. If he has any honour (which I doubt) he will post a retraction and apology for all he has written. But likely he will simply not show up here anymore under his Windwolf moniker. he will probably just change names, and try to keep a low profile until he figures he can start the BS again. I would imagine that certain members of the PPCLI will be keeping a watch out for this, as I bet they will be here anyhow, making true and informative posts for those of you who are interested.


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## Popurhedoff (25 Jul 2003)

Good Day all,  I am current AirForce, 24 years Regular Forces.  Having found this link through other fourms I find that a member here is spouting complete lies in the name of a proud Regiment.

I have had the good fortune to work alongside the PPCLI while in Entebbee Uganda in 1996.  With only 36 members of the PPCLI, they provided security for the compound and operations center.

I had the opportunity to chat with many of the men.  I was impressed with their integrity and  professionalism while deployed there.

I found these men to be extremely proud of their Regiment and their past serving members. Now to find that the their proud Regiment is a vehicle and guise for untruths, lies and pure imbellishment is UNSATISFACTORY.  

To anyone who is thinking about joning  the Military and has been effected by these wild  and outright lies...please do not think that all are like that.

There are a lot of great men and women serving in Canada‘s Army.  They are willing to answer your questions and tell you the truth.

  While I am not Army I do consider them a part of my Family...a large Family.

Cheers
Pat
a.k.a. Popurhedoff


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## Devlin (25 Jul 2003)

Thank god for the Reg Force. 

Good to see you guys in here and somebody getting called on their $hit. I will admit that I was duped by this guy and actually heeded some his "advice" before going on course this summer. It‘s really too bad that people like this exist and feel the need to pump up their egos by spouting B.S. to us rookies.


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## R_J (25 Jul 2003)

Amen to that Devlin. As a continuance to the Wind (Bag) Wolf story, following the last challenge he recieved, telling him to apologize or we were coming over to expose him, he is now showing as unregistered. Interesting. Well, one less peice of garbage. Most of us didn‘t think he would have the parts to come forward and apologize when it is so easy to hide behind the anonymity of the computer (even when your not so anonymous).


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## Fishbone Jones (25 Jul 2003)

R-J, KevinB, Nester, etal,

Thx for the hand fellas. I‘m sure Mike B (the Forum owner) won‘t mind you watching out for these guys and adding your input while I‘m away. thx again.


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## MG34 (25 Jul 2003)

Well done folks Rob,Kevin,Nester,well troops that is one down now time to seek and destroy the other wannabe idiots that infest this board.


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## Recce41 (25 Jul 2003)

Nice going fellas
 There are some many BS Commandos here and on other sites. 
 MG hows Petawawa, I‘m trying to get hold of a fello in 1st Btl. Are you there or 3rd? 
Bold and Swift/ Airborne


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## muskrat89 (25 Jul 2003)

I just faxed my Record of Service over to Mike B.
Personally, I like seeing BS‘ers being put in place, and appreciate your efforts. On the other hand, don‘t act like you‘re coming in here to help this forum - you came in here because the guy was misrepresenting you and your Regt - nothing more. For a bunch of friends, you guys on the gunnutz board don‘t speak very highly of the people on this site (generally speaking). Here is a sample, from a Mr. "Reaper" :  "That site is the ultimate wannabe and molitia hero page,it is pretty pathetic actually. When it first started up it wasn‘t too bad but now forget it."  So, I guess, as far as BS goes, you guys shut Windwolf down for your own (legitimate) reasons - don‘t try to pass it off as anything else. Contrary to popular belief, there is some practical experience, on this board.  Cheers


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## R_J (25 Jul 2003)

Muskrat, no one came here to make the world a better place, just rid it of one POS telling the world he was one of us. 
I must say though, although I can‘t see participating in too many of the topics here, there are some interesting threads I‘m sure I‘ll contribute to.


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## muskrat89 (25 Jul 2003)

I‘m just worried that Recce41 will go beserk, when he founds out that all this time, he‘s been on a wannabe/molitia (sic) hero board  lol  ;-) Though truly, he‘s implied that, a time or two.

Anyway, was just making a point. Didn‘t want any of the naive on the board to think you guys came all the way over here, just to save us from Windwolf..

There‘s lots of youngsters (did I really say that??) on this board, true enough - but we‘re really not as bad as is being made out, on your usual board. We look forward to your participation.

Ubique


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## Pikache (25 Jul 2003)

There is some good in a small military as we can track down if someone is legit or not pretty easily.


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## MG34 (25 Jul 2003)

You are right we didn‘t come here to save anyone just to expose the wannabes for what they are,and to expose them for all to see.

Muskrat: I am the same "Reaper" from the other board,and I once posted here as "Tommy Atkins" as well.I was in the reserves 2IRofC to be exact from 83-87,then joined the Regs (3 RCR 87-93,1RCR 93-)from there,I have seen the good and bad of both.I do stand by my quoted comments.This board has gone down hill alot with people spouting off all types of useless naus and drivel Wind Wolf was only an obvious choice for attack as he was one of the worst offenders.


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## muskrat89 (25 Jul 2003)

Fair enough - I appreciate your candor.

If the board is lacking substance, all the more reason for you guys to stay around....


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## Deleted member 585 (25 Jul 2003)

Dang -- that‘s the swiftest retreat I‘ve ever seen!  I never paid that much attention, but you know... you can‘t see the bullsh!t for the bullsh!t.

Cheers.


"Through."


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## Recce41 (25 Jul 2003)

No Muskrat
 I‘m not going to snap, there are people on this board that know me very well ( RecceGuy, NRG, RECCE51, etc.) I served with them on tour and at the Regt (8CH in Petawawa not the MO in NewBrunswick, RCD in Petawawa,LilOttawa now ****  (Gagetown). Do I have to post my complete MPRR (490)or my UER. 
 Yes there are many BS Commandos. On one US site I was on. One fello was passing himself off as Canada SF. **** he was a Canadian Rambo, until the Canucks suck him down. I prefer to read someones honest post, than a dishonest one. This is one of the few Canadian ones. And to F%^^ it up would be a sin. 
Bold and Swift/ Airborne


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## muskrat89 (25 Jul 2003)

I was just bustin your chops, recce41  I didn‘t think you‘d snap      

cheers


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## Mike Bobbitt (25 Jul 2003)

Better late than never, but here goes...

1) Thanks to all those who help sort this issue out. In clearing the name of the PPCLI, you‘ve also helped clean up the board a bit, so two good deeds in my view.

2) Windwolf has been unregistered, at his request.

3) I‘ve updated the Conduct Guidelines and User Agreement to try to cover off situations like this. Now I know that it‘s still going to happen - the only people that read the guidelines are the people that intend to follow them. But now we have a policy in place that we can act on.

4) Please, if anyone sees this type of thing, drop me a line at Mike@Army.ca or use the "notify moderator" button. The sooner I know about these things the sooner we can take care of it. I‘m a bit of an absentee landlord here some times, so don‘t think you‘re bothering me by pointing out a thread gone bad.

5) I hate to admit it, but I don‘t disagree with MG34/Reaper‘s comments. These forums used to be primarily visited by informed military professionals, many of which are still here. The reality is that more and more potential recruits are here, which moves the discussions from high level military dialogue to basic repetition.

Having said that, it doesn‘t necessarily detract from the board. There are still plenty of "deep" discussions here that could be interesting to all levels of military professional. In addition to that, we appear to be helping out a surprisingly large segment of the population that has no idea what military life entails. Like it or not, they‘re looking to us to answer questions that will help them make career choices. It may not be the kind of thing everyone wants to participate in, but those that do are a great help.

My point: There‘s room for both the interested civilian and the seasoned soldier here, but definitely not for frauds. The best we can do is clean up those situations when they occur.

Cheers


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## Mike Bobbitt (25 Jul 2003)

Muskrat: You were kidding about the service record, right?

Please, no one should feel like they have to "prove" themselves, especially to me. My opinion on that is simple: I don‘t really care what your service record is. If you‘re keeping within the bounds of good conduct, we‘ll all get along just fine.

Most of you guys are extremely knowledgeable and helpful, and who am I to demand proof of service?   

Further, I *really* don‘t want to get to a point where nobody trusts anyone else because they may or may not be real. Let‘s not let one or two incidents colour our perception of each other. I‘m willing to take people at face value and suffer the consequences for those rare occasions where I get burned...


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## KevinB (25 Jul 2003)

I would like to admit my only reason for joining was aid my fellow Pat‘s in removing the stain. 

 I don‘t feel it nec to post ones entire 490A on a board, just that one keeps ones comments in line with ones experiences - or - mention when he/she is going off on a "what if" or "IMHO"  thead.

 I get addicted to board easily (ask R_J or any other of the gunnutz types) and even when I don‘t intend I often drop by to give my (usually) unwanted and unneeded thoughts    







That said 


HELLO, and thanks for having us.


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## muskrat89 (25 Jul 2003)

Yes, was just kidding about my record of service. I may live in the US, but I still have my trademark, Canadian sense of humour - dry, thinly veiled sarcasm.. sorry for the stir..


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## Mike Bobbitt (25 Jul 2003)

Heheh, no problem, I just wanted to make sure I wasn‘t missing something.


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## Cycophant (25 Jul 2003)

I‘m glad to see all the members of the military working together to keep this atmosphere accurate and professional.

As a "civvie" who has just finished his initial application procedure, and while awaiting word back, still thirsts for knowledge, I‘m glad to see that most of things I pick up here are from responsible, knowledgable folks who are just trying to help out people like me.  This board has been a big help, both in direct CF information, and just learning about the type of atmosphere I may well be getting in to.

Thanks to everyone for keeping this forum great.  All your hard work pays off, in the end.


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## Etown (26 Jul 2003)

As someone who has been involved in the IT industry for quite a while now, I‘ve seen a large number of good forums colapse. Mostly due to the fact that as the signal to noise ratio drops the guys with anything to contribute seem to get fed up and take a hike. 

I‘m hoping that Windwolf might have done us a favour by bringing some good people over/back to this board and we can bring the number of intelligent posts back to an acceptible level. That‘s pretty much a request for all the PPCLI (and others), who just kicked in the door, to come back and contribute often. 

  :soldier:


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## slavex (26 Jul 2003)

curious as to what Windwolf actually said when he asked to be removed? I think the guys from the PPCLI would like to hear that too. just because he‘s gone doesn‘t mean he‘s forgotten I bet.


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## KevinB (27 Jul 2003)

Yes, I am rather curious as to why the sudden retreat...


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## Mike Bobbitt (27 Jul 2003)

To be honest, I wasn‘t aware of any of this when he contacted me. He simply asked to be unregistered, and I complied. (Site policy is that anyone requesting to be removed will be.)

Only afterwards did I find out the "rest" of the story...


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## R_J (27 Jul 2003)

I‘m sure Bartok‘s e-mail had nothing to do with it. Or maybe it was his anonymity not being so anonymous.
Na, he probably just realized it was wrong to be doing what he was and he decided to do the right thing!


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## Pikache (28 Jul 2003)

Or he got scared...


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## Michael Dorosh (28 Jul 2003)

A little intimidating to see that the "real" soldiers are using my website in endeavors such as the stated aim of the first posting to this thread.  Glad it was of some use to someone, nonetheless.


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## R_J (29 Jul 2003)

Michael, it‘s an excellent site. I only found out about it when we were slagging Wind Wolf over at Gun Nutz and one of the other poster‘s linked it.


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## Devlin (29 Jul 2003)

Michael:

Have to agree with the others here your site is top shelf. Best of all it‘s very detailed. I‘m a bit of history nut and your site has been a great source of info. 

Kudos and well done.


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## Veteran`s son (29 Jul 2003)

Michael

I, too, think you have a great website!
There is alot of helpful information about the Canadian Army!


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## Duotone81 (30 Jul 2003)

This reminds me of a some guy over on an American military website posing as an ex-CAR. This guy was super Canadian soldier for sure. He apparently is now an Airborne Ranger as a reservist. I asked him about this and he told me all Canadian Airborne Infantry called theselves Rangers!! I did not know this. Oh but a few days later he was an MP in a service battalion. hmmmm... He even had the stupidity to post Pvt. Nathan Green‘s (one of the soldiers killed in the tarnac bombing in Afghan)picture in his profile. He said it was a tribute to him but made no reference to the fact. I think he was trying to pass it along as his own piture. The most obvious thing about his whole "character" was that he just didn‘t seem to talk with the professionalism and maturity that one would expect an experienced soldier to have. Long story short I called his bluff because I felt it wasn‘t honourable to be parading around as a CF member when he clearly wasn‘t. He hasn‘t been back since because everyone there knows he‘s a fraud. If you want to read the "conversation" we had just go to www.military.com and search for "sniper335". I haven‘t served yet but I just find the whole thing disgusting. I guess it‘s no real mystery why they have to live vicariously through the efforts of others. They have no honour or dignity themselves.


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## Ruthless4Life (30 Jul 2003)

> I asked him about this and he told me all Canadian Airborne Infantry called theselves Rangers!!


I don‘t know if I should laugh or cry. It‘s quite ironic... only if he knew what a Canadian Ranger really was...


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## MG34 (31 Jul 2003)

Military.com and socnet.com are the worst sites I have seen for wannabes,pretty pathetic actually espescially the idiots who try to pass themselves off as canadian Spec ops types..man does that ever piss me off.


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## Recce41 (31 Jul 2003)

O ye
 Its funny when they give every detail of training. But it reads like a book. Some are real funny. They say if I tell you, I‘ll have to kill you. But spill the whole works.  :evil:    :tank:


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## Infanteer (31 Jul 2003)

Actually, SOCNET is pretty well moderated, and with the high amount of military or ex-military guys who post there, posers are caught and evicted pretty quick.  They keep the signal:noise ratio down quite a bit too.


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## Mike Bobbitt (31 Jul 2003)

...and that‘s the way to run it. With so few moderators and frequent absences (occupational hazard), it‘s easy for someone to fly under the radar for quite a while.

Unfortunately, it falls on everyone to ferret out the troublemakers, even if it‘s to report them to a moderator...

We haven‘t had too many problems here in the past, so we‘ve been lucky. But there have been some annoying incidents, and they appear to be on the rise...


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## GrahamD (31 Jul 2003)

I have a question about an incident that occured back in Sept ‘98 between my friend and an "ex airbourne" civilian.  It wasn‘t anything serious, nothing came of it, but I‘ve always wondered if this guy was "inflating" the story for effect, or if it was all fact.  

Maybe someone here can prove/disprove it for me.

Myself and some friends were getting memorial tattoos for a friend of ours.  We went to a local shop, that some skinhead/punk type guys owned and operated.  The actual owner was this heavily built muscular guy who scared the cr@p out of everybody who went in there.  Pretty seriously scary looking guy, wouldnt want to piss him off.
  Anyway, so my friend walks in after some of us had been there for a while, and he‘s wearing a red(maroon) beret.  Suddenly the atmosphere in the whole place changes, silence for a (long) second, and then we hear "TAKE IT OFF" no one knows whats going on, so next we hear "YOU, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT" and this guy (the owner) is addressing my friend, and he looks pissed.
  My friend tells him he‘s had it for a long time, he bought it at the surplus store.
  The guy tells him to take it off, and that he is not allowed to wear it in the shop, and that he hadn‘t earned the right to wear it at all in his opinion.
 My friend, probably feeling a little pissed at being confronted so harshly, and thinking maybe the guy was just screwing around (I really dont know what he was thinking)  demands to know how one goes about "earning the right" to wear this beret. (he had no idea it had anything to do with the military)
  So this guy tells him a war story.  I don‘t remember the dialogue of the conversation, but I remember a couple of the points he made.  He told him that he saw one of his buddies shot in the head, and that a short while later, another one one of his buddies who was grief stricken commited suicide with a grenade.
  I belive it was supposedly on a mission in Bosnia, but I‘m not 100% sure of the country where it took place, but I‘m fairly certain it would have been somewhere between ‘90- whenever the airbourne was disbanded.
  Naturaly my friend removed the hat out of respect, and nothing more was said on it.

Even though the guy looked every bit like an elite soldier, and had the attitude to match, I always wondered about the story. Anyone ever hear of an incident like that, in that time frame?


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## OLD SCHOOL (31 Jul 2003)

My guess is that your scary elite soldier likely is aware of the Maroon beret and the right to earn it but an elite soldier is not one for really telling stories. Perhaps he was ex-Airborne and only inflated events to get his point across. Perhaps he never earned the right to wear it either.  
Not long after my Infantry school, I walked right past a longhair wearing the green and VRI badge!
I know the displeasure involved with those feelings. He came very close and I learned restraint. Two lessons in one really.

It is not as if your friend was pickin up ladies badge and all. He had no idea. No real soldier will get too upset with that.Just a calm explanation will do. I was in England with friends once and my companions observed a young man with a sand beret scoopin ladies with big bad stories and no fact to back it up. That was a very short a$$whippin‘ and a free lesson in the turtle style of self defence. Can‘t fault buddy as that is also a very difficult lid to earn to say the least. I was mearly an international observer. I believe there was an investigation to find out where he obtained the cap badge that was reposessed from him.

For those confused, please see wanna-bees under off topic.


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## Michael Dorosh (31 Jul 2003)

There was an admiral in the United States Navy who, a few years ago, committed suicide because he had worn ribbons for Vietnam service when he had never really been there at all.  When it was reported in the press, he felt the need to make a speedy exit.  The problem doesn‘t just apply to civvies who were never in; there are plenty of soldiers - old and not so old - who have regrets about their level of service and feel the need to inflate their status.  Pretty pathetic really.


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## Pikache (31 Jul 2003)

Have to wonder how low must a person‘s self esteem get to disgrace himself by becoming a poser.


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## OLD SCHOOL (1 Aug 2003)

I think the ribbons were a fake silver or bronze star with v for valour. Sad that he commited suicide but that does show the significance of what he did.
Michael, I have that book dressed to kill and it is very good.
I also collect old military manuals etc..
Have a pay scale card from the early 50‘s with the Lt. General getting a grand a month! We should adopt that today and make them work for it.
Small arms manuals etc...

Posers are everywhere in society.Never saw any in my later units as they paid the price to be there and were rewarded with the pride and satsisfaction that comes with success.


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## KevinB (1 Aug 2003)

> There was an admiral in the United States Navy who, a few years ago, committed suicide because he had worn ribbons for Vietnam service when he had never really been there at all. When it was reported in the press, he felt the need to make a speedy exit.


Actually he was in Vietnam and was awarded the Bronze Star and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry - the issue was whether or not he was awarded the Combat "V".  At the time he was serving as a Destroyer Captain, and soem felt he was entitled to (although) not awarded the "V".

 *Disclaimer, I am not usually a gem of UFI, I was at my parents cottage during summer leave and read the very article in an old issue of TIME.


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## Recce41 (1 Aug 2003)

Graham
 The time buddy is talking about is in Somalia. The soldier that got shot was Cpl Abel MC. He was shot inside a Bison when a C7 discharged. 
Bold and Swift/Airborne


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## Michael Dorosh (1 Aug 2003)

Thanks for the comments on the book, and the correction to the info about the good admiral; much appreciated.

A grand a month eh?  If I had a grand a month after rent, car payment, computer payment, phone bill, internet fee, parking fees, union dues, utilities....I would be laughing!


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## GrahamD (1 Aug 2003)

Thats truly unfortunate.  I guess it would be better if the story was made up, and nothing like that had ever happened.

  Thanks for clearing it up for me though.

It makes even more sense that it would have happend within the confines of a vehicle, it totaly fits with another graphic point he made that I failed to mention, so as to not offend anyone who may have been there.

I‘m glad this guy was honest about his experience.  It didn‘t come off as someone trying to impress, or be hard core.  Just someone who was upset.  The fact that we were there because one of our buddies had died, may have had him looking back, and the beret pushed him over the edge, I don‘t know.


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## excoelis (1 Aug 2003)

Mike Able died in an unfortunate incident in Somalia and the other incident was Smitty in Rwanda shortly thereafter.  Both great guys.

See here for dates and proof:  web page

What city was this Tattoo parlour in, what timeframe?

I think I might know who the goon was


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## GrahamD (1 Aug 2003)

It was in in Victoria, B.C. in Sept ‘98, that we got the tattoos at his shop.


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## Infanteer (1 Aug 2003)

It was probably the Urge, it is run by a guy who was ex-reg, and than a Warrant in the CScots.


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## GrahamD (1 Aug 2003)

Yep it was Urge, thanks I had a bit of a memory lapse on the name of the shop, I kept thinking it started with O.....


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## Recce41 (1 Aug 2003)

Ex 
 You with 3rd? Trying to hunt down some fellas. Tryed the DIN, but no go.


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## Devlin (11 Aug 2003)

Warning RANT to follow.

Well what an interesting weekend, I met a real live killer this weekend. Hey and guess what he trains people to kill too. Had some friends up from Ottawa on the weekend and a bunch of people over for a BBQ. Get introduced to a guy who mentioned he was in the direct quote here "Canadian Armed Forces !" loud enough for every female within 1000 feet to hear him. 

So naturally I ask what do you do? 

Response: "I train men to kill."

Me cowering in the corner a meek little reservist in the presence of a trained killer.

Next Question: What unit are you with?

Response: The training unit in Ottawa.

Me: Does it have a name?

Response: The Training Unit.

Me: Oh yeah that one.

Needless to say the conversation did not go much further. I asked him if he knew anyone named Windwolf, perhaps a relative or close friend. The only response I got was a "not too sure have to check my files". Man this guy must be important, cause at my unit all the "files" are locked up in the orderly room. 

He went on to explain about the past three years he has spent in Bosnia telling the ladies, about his escapades teaching the locals how to kill. 

Hmmm from my little knowledge of history, the locals in Bosnia were pretty good at killing each other before any of us got there.

I guess they are everywhere, if it‘s any consolation I ended up burning his steak, even let the dog lick it a few times. It made dinner more bearable.


----------



## PTE Gruending (11 Aug 2003)

Probably some guy doing a weekend BMQ or something ;-). Wow, its people like this that give us a bad name. Its one thing to be proud of what you do, and the uniform in which we are priveledged to wear, but then there are people like this. I know lots of younger guys who are just insane this way; wearing combats to the bars, throwing in the fact that they are in the Army in every civilian conversation that they engage in...


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## Redeye (11 Aug 2003)

One of these wankers is too many - there used to be a fool in this town who wandered about in combats wearing a black beret with an RCR capbadge on it and claiming to be with some sort of underwater scuba ninja unit.  He was eventually challenged by a couple of the boys from the unit and didn‘t even know what VRI stood for or what unit the badge belonged to.  I wouldn‘t be surprised if he had made some sort of ridiculous claim about what the VRI cipher stood for...

The best way to deal with these fools is simply to challenge them in front of whoever they are trying to impress, and in most cases they‘ll both shut up and admit they‘re being fakes.  If you‘re lucky you can walk off with the ladies, too!   :gunner:


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## Danjanou (11 Aug 2003)

I agree challenging them at the bar, or wherever, in front of then group they‘re trying to impress is often an effective tactic. A couple of well placed questions and watch them slink off. 

Civvy posers are one thing. Actual military guys though... I never could understand why someone couldn‘t be proud of who they are in the service without having ot make up the trained to kill ninja crap, maybe I‘m just naive.

BTW I wouldn‘t worry about them breeding. Something tells me that particular skill wasn‘t included in their "special training."


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## sgtdixon (11 Aug 2003)

I Agree with the Expose and Conquer Technique as I used it to great effect this summer here in Cold Lake at the Cadet Camp. This young man who is obvioulsy unfit comes to me and tells me he is with 78th Field Bty out of Red Deer and that he is a "Arty Recce Specialist" and that he is also a part time Infanteer with the LER. I called BS as my friend C/Sgt Ubbing was right there and he is a member of 78th Field Bty and we rather tore him apart infront of the Senior Leaders Course cadets he was trying to impress.   :soldier:  Dumbsh!te.


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## pigisdead (13 Sep 2006)

I have met a man who is a real life Capt Dress-up! He wears medals some identifiable some not. Affiliates himself with military organisations/police, wears a uniform that is part real, part fake. Is part of that "STONE CUTTERS thing".....wears a Cap badge of an very real regiment in the CF, even feels he can wear officers mess dress....attends all the important dates, and is otherwise a total and utter Bulls@#T!er. Yet for some reason because his BS is of such a high calibre, nobody really thinks anything of it!

Has any one had any experience with nut jobs like this before....????? Suggestions??? These pretenders need sorting out!


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## big bad john (13 Sep 2006)

It would help some if you filled out your profile a little more so that people know where you are coming from.  It is considered a polite thing to do around here.


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## The_Falcon (13 Sep 2006)

If you suspect he is a fake, inform him to cut the bs act or you will go to the police, as it is illegal to impersonate a member of the Canadian Forces.


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## Trinity (13 Sep 2006)

419. Every one who without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him,
*
(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,

(b) wears a distinctive mark relating to wounds received or service performed in war, or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services, or any imitation thereof, or any mark or device or thing that is likely to be mistaken for any such mark, medal, ribbon, badge, chevron, decoration or order,
*
(c) has in his possession a certificate of discharge, certificate of release, statement of service or identity card from the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force that has not been issued to and does not belong to him, or

(d) has in his possession a commission or warrant or a certificate of discharge, certificate of release, statement of service or identity card, issued to an officer or a person in or who has been in the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force, that contains any alteration that is not verified by the initials of the officer who issued it, or by the initials of an officer thereto lawfully authorized,

is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.


----------



## The_Falcon (13 Sep 2006)

Hey Trinity, I think you need to do your lines over again.  And thanks for posting that I was to lazy to post the specifics.


----------



## Shamrock (13 Sep 2006)

Is it Steve Guttenburg?  He's a Stonecutter and wore a police uniform.


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## FastEddy (13 Sep 2006)

pigisdead said:
			
		

> I have met a man who is a real life Capt Dress-up! He wears medals some identifiable some not. Affiliates himself with military organisations/police, wears a uniform that is part real, part fake. Is part of that "STONE CUTTERS thing".....wears a Cap badge of an very real regiment in the CF, even feels he can wear officers mess dress....attends all the important dates, and is otherwise a total and utter Bulls@#T!er. Yet for some reason because his BS is of such a high calibre, nobody really thinks anything of it!
> 
> Has any one had any experience with nut jobs like this before....????? Suggestions??? These pretenders need sorting out!




Are you a active member of the Lodge which you have indicated and are the important dates you refer to at this Lodge. Also is this person a member of that Organization ?.

It seems strange, that the Officers of the Hinted at Lodge, regardless of how convincing or entertaining this person is, that they permit it or have not taken steps to, lets say correct it.

As "big bad john" mentioned, you should really fill out your Profile as a matter of courtesy.

Cheers.


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## Too Poor II (13 Sep 2006)

Do you know if anyone has called him on it, no I don’t mean call him on the phone I mean in public expose him for being a “FAKE”. This no doubt could be a very dangerous double-edged sword.

You expose the guy in front of a group of  people it could embarrass him enough to stop, but (there is always a “But”)  if he is a master of the “B.S.” art like you indicate that he might be it could come back and hit you in the face


----------



## Torlyn (13 Sep 2006)

pigisdead said:
			
		

> Has any one had any experience with nut jobs like this before....????? Suggestions??? These pretenders need sorting out!



Let us know where you are, and who the transgressor is, and we'll deal with it.

T


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## Zell_Dietrich (13 Sep 2006)

I remember in my youth hearing from my Dad of one guy who went to the Legion with a mixed bag of medals and conflicting stories.  Keep in mind this was Alberta ... in the 70s so he was not so gently informed of his transgression.  I remembered this story two weeks ago when I saw an older gentleman downtown Toronto wearing a distinctive military cap. He was walking in a very stiff mannor like he was marching and if I saw the rank on his cap correctly he is a Master colonel. (two VV and a little birdie)

I'll admit I could be totally wrong and I simply don't know the uniform's symbols that he's proudly wearing.  But he seems happy wearing it and it is harming no one so I'm ambivalent about the whole thing. 

I know there is a specific mental disorder that causes people to emulate people they admire and then believe the lie themselves ... but I just can't think of it right now. (or find it on Google)

While I was looking for the technical name of the mental disorder that I stumbled across this site. http://www.anzmi.net   It has a long list of very amusing tails and oddly enough when I read it I do hear it in a New Zealand accent!  :-D


----------



## Devlin (13 Sep 2006)

Zell_Dietrich said:
			
		

> He was walking in a very stiff mannor like he was marching and if I saw the rank on his cap correctly he is a Master colonel. (two VV and a little birdie)



A Master Colonel eh .....hmmm sounds like that MASH episode where Hawkeye makes Radar a Cpl. Captain and takes him into the officer's mess.


----------



## GAP (13 Sep 2006)

In the early eighties a bunch of Viet Nam Vets got together and formed  the Winnipeg Chapter of Canadian Viet Nam Veterans. Wasn't much of a group nor anything particularly important to most, but after a year or so we kept getting requests for admission from people we suspected never served. To make a long story shorter, we insisted that everybody, including all existing members, submit a DD214 proving their pedigree.....

Horror of horrors...our illustrious leader was a poser who rapidly faded into the netherworld....so they are out there!!  :


----------



## geo (13 Sep 2006)

was there ever any doubt?

talking the talk is easy.... walking the walk is another thing altogether 
IMHO


----------



## big bad john (29 Sep 2006)

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2140348.php

September 29, 2006

Stolen Valor Act stalls

By John Hoellwarth
Staff writer


In a major legislative reprieve for posers who claim to rate combat decorations they didn’t earn, the House Judiciary Committee failed to take action on a Senate-approved bill outlawing medals fraud during the committee’s last meeting before Congress adjourns Oct. 1. 

The Stolen Valor Act, introduced in the House in the summer of 2005 by Rep. John Salazar, D-Colo., closes a loophole in current law that allows phony combat veterans to escape prosecution as long as they don’t physically wear the awards they brag about.


Currently, medals fakers and con artists can put awards like the Silver Star, Navy Cross and Medal of Honor on their resumes and license plates without violating the law.

Legislation introduced in the House and Senate prescribes hefty fines and up to a year in jail for posers who try to pass themselves off as war heroes.

A version of the bill introduced in the Senate by Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., was passed unanimously by that chamber Sept. 7. But the bill has been stalled in the House Judiciary Committee since then, despite having more than 100 cosponsors — including five judiciary committee members.

“As a cosponsor of the Stolen Valor Act and a member of the House Judiciary Committee, I am disappointed that the committee did not take action on this legislation prior to the committee’s adjournment,” said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif.

Rep. Bob Beauprez, R-Colo., who personally called the committee’s leaders to push the Stolen Valor Act out of committee, called the bill’s failure to reach the floor “enormously frustrating.”

Decorated war veterans also support the effort.

“I’m not a big proponent of the federal government regulating us, but I just feel this is a piece of legislation that needs to be passed because there are just so many men and women who have given their life and their limbs defending this nation,” said Peter Lemon, who received the Medal of Honor for actions in Vietnam on April 1, 1970.

Lemon said he called “a number of influential congressmen” this week in an attempt to encourage them to bring the bill to a vote.

“A lot of guys I served with ... I know what they did, what they went through. My guys, I honor them,” Lemon said. “To think that someone else would be posing as the recipient of one of their awards, when I know what they’ve been through, just disgusts me.”

Congress leaves Washington to hit the campaign trail Oct. 1, but the House Judiciary Committee will reconvene twice more, once in November and once in December, before the current congressional session ends.

Beauprez said the bill has a shot to make it out of committee at one of these meetings and onto the suspension calendar, a docket of pending bills that Congress addresses at the end of the day because they largely require only rubber-stamp approval.

“This one will almost certainly move on the suspension calendar — once it gets on,” Beauprez said.

But that can’t happen until the committee makes it happen, he said. “Where we’re at right now, we’re probably looking at next year,” he added.

But Salazar said he has not given up hope that his bill will pass by the end of December.

“Our nation is at war and Congress should have acted immediately to protect the honor of our veterans,” Salazar said. “We cannot let this become a partisan issue. I will continue to fight to protect our veterans and make sure the Stolen Valor Act is passed by the end of the year.”

If the legislation stays bottled up in committee during the lame- duck sessions in November and December, it will have to be re-introduced in the House and Senate during the next session of Congress, essentially pushing the initiative back to square one.

Both Salazar and Beauprez said the momentum built up behind the legislation this year will certainly help it along next year, if it comes to that.

“With more than 100 supporters in Congress, the Stolen Valor Act is well on its way to becoming law,” Salazar said


----------



## TN2IC (30 Sep 2006)

That is great to read, now what about Canada?


----------



## Shamrock (30 Sep 2006)

Criminal Code
            PART X: FRAUDULENT TRANSACTIONS RELATING TO CONTRACTS AND TRADE
               Public Stores
Unlawful use of military uniforms or certificates
 419. Every one who without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him,

(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,

*(b) wears a distinctive mark relating to wounds received or service performed in war, or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services, or any imitation thereof, or any mark or device or thing that is likely to be mistaken for any such mark, medal, ribbon, badge, chevron, decoration or order,*

(c) has in his possession a certificate of discharge, certificate of release, statement of service or identity card from the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force that has not been issued to and does not belong to him, or

(d) has in his possession a commission or warrant or a certificate of discharge, certificate of release, statement of service or identity card, issued to an officer or a person in or who has been in the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force, that contains any alteration that is not verified by the initials of the officer who issued it, or by the initials of an officer thereto lawfully authorized,

is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 377.


Guess we're just a little more proactive about this stuff.  Now, seems to me that this is actually a little more encompassing than what the Americans propose (one you lawyers can help me out with this).  Should I claim to have won the CMH whilst serving in the USMC on a job application in Canada, would I not be commiting an offence?  Also, does para (b) cover the asshats who claim to be aeroborne (even going so far as to put up unearned jump wings)?


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## Pearson (30 Sep 2006)

Shamrock said:
			
		

> (a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,
> [



Now if this read "PARTS" of a uniform. Then I could get the idiot who tried to steal $500.00 or so dollars of gear from my store arrested on sight. Wearing a nice new CADPAT parka which he was using in an attempt to hide shoes, jerseys and other things he "found" in the store. Gee, I wonder where he "bought" his parka.


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## reccecrewman (30 Sep 2006)

It should be an offence to wear parts of a CF uniform.  I hate seeing people wearing our cadpat pants or other parts of our uniform,


----------



## TN2IC (1 Oct 2006)

Small pack in malls.... Regent Mall... drives me crazy.


----------



## Thompson_JM (1 Oct 2006)

in some cases its a young misguided troop shooting for the LCF... in our case, we only had so much room to fit everything when we came out here to gagetown... so some of the guyshad no choice but to use the small pack since it was the only backpack they had out here!  

but those using it for the LCF should be informed and sorted out...


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## Zell_Dietrich (2 Oct 2006)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> It should be an offence to wear parts of a CF uniform.  I hate seeing people wearing our cadpat pants or other parts of our uniform,



It is.   I don't mean it is just offensive,  it is actually a crime.  If a person is wearing a uniform, or a part of a uniform or wearing something similar enough to cause confusion then there are laws against that.  (Impersonating a member of the CF is a crime,  unfortunately unless they do it on a military base or are otherwise subject to DND code of conduct - Hurrah for QOR volume 2 - it is a matter for the Criminal Code of Canada. )  

     And here is a fun thing for those who try to sell their stuff on e-bay.  Or guys who alter their gear so they can use it on the street.  Or those guys who loose their stuff and buy cheep knockoffs and try to return/exchange it.   Basically, while the gear is intruded to you,  it is the property of the Queen.  On the books,  this is taken extremely seriously. With good cause,  most of those activities can easily compromise the safety of CF members.  

     Now there are pants that look similar, sometimes I can't tell the difference,  but unless they are worn with other items it would be hard to bust someone for impersonating, the pants alone isn't enough to cause confusion.  Although the jacket *I think * is enough because it could easily cause confusion.  I think it is all contextual.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/267591.html   From 416 - 421


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## 3rd Herd (2 Oct 2006)

Not about Posers-But about the uniform issues​
Since I am going to be stuck here in Calgary for the next two years I went and again signed on to CI at one of the local PPCLI cadet corps. Having been in this position with all three service branches over the years I have seen quite a few interesting dress codes but this is a new one. So I am seeking some wisdom and thoughts.

The issues here is that the CI's with the Cadet OC's apparent blessing wear the old style combats, berets/cap badge and combat boots on parade nights. Qualification badges and name tags.Think of time warping back to the 1980/90's. This is the first time I have seen this on parade nights, on Fld Ex that is a different story. My usual dress has been Corp shirt and comfortable shoes,slacks and ball cap. Thoughts?


----------



## orange.paint (2 Oct 2006)

Meeh.As long as their happy,getting payed and developing the future civilians and soldiers of tomorrow,I don't mind.It's a different organisation in my mind.Hey I'll donate my old olive drab to em,5 foot 6....any 13 yr olds need a pair? ;D

I honestly have to say I'm guilty of most of the things here when I was a teenager.Having said that I grew up near to a US army base,hence lots of cheap warm clothing.I had a combat jacket that I wore for years,good quality.

I think a lot of it is frivolous bullpoo.I wear a Chelsea jersey all the time.However no one suspects me of being a player.I see the civilian wearing the old green jean jacket the same way.I see kids walking to school here on base using small packs.Do I think its a big deal?Nope.Just kids being kids.

But personell who say are corporals in lets say the RCD shouldn't dress as a captain and go to the officers mess in lets say Trenton.Or he may have be caught and charged....not that it happened.  

Now when someone wears dress uniform to a remembrance day parade and pretends to be in  a certain regiment or pretends to be a legion member should be shot.No questions asked.

(just my opinion....not everyone agrees with it but lets keep personal attacks to a minimum.Besides why be "the man" on the internet...save it for work...or for your dance routines.) (we all know you "bring it");D


----------



## Neill McKay (2 Oct 2006)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> The issues here is that the CI's with the Cadet OC's apparent blessing wear the old style combats, berets/cap badge and combat boots on parade nights. Qualification badges and name tags.Think of time warping back to the 1980/90's. This is the first time I have seen this on parade nights, on Fld Ex that is a different story. My usual dress has been Corp shirt and comfortable shoes,slacks and ball cap. Thoughts?



I suspect that this is not authorized, but don't have a reference at hand to prove it.  In general CIs may not wear CF uniforms.


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## Haggis (2 Oct 2006)

099* said:
			
		

> But personell who say are corporals in lets say the RCD shouldn't dress as a captain and go to the officers mess in lets say Trenton.Or he may have be caught and charged....not that it happened.
> 
> Now when someone wears dress uniform to a remembrance day parade and pretends to be in  a certain regiment or pretends to be a legion member should be shot.  No questions asked.



That's why the CSD and CCC 419 exist.



			
				099* said:
			
		

> I honestly have to say I'm guilty of most of the things here when I was a teenager.  Having said that I grew up near to a US army base,hence lots of cheap warm clothing.I had a combat jacket that I wore for years,good quality.
> 
> I think a lot of it is frivolous bullpoo.I wear a Chelsea jersey all the time.However no one suspects me of being a player.I see the civilian wearing the old green jean jacket the same way.I see kids walking to school here on base using small packs.Do I think its a big deal?Nope.Just kids being kids.



If they applied this law rigorously, they'd be locking up a lot of homeless people!


----------



## orange.paint (2 Oct 2006)

Haggis said:
			
		

> If they applied this law rigorously, they'd be locking up a lot of homeless people!



LoL
true enough.


----------



## armyvern (2 Oct 2006)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> Not about Posers-But about the uniform issues​
> Since I am going to be stuck here in Calgary for the next two years I went and again signed on to CI at one of the local PPCLI cadet corps. Having been in this position with all three service branches over the years I have seen quite a few interesting dress codes but this is a new one. So I am seeking some wisdom and thoughts.
> 
> The issues here is that the CI's with the Cadet OC's apparent blessing wear the old style combats, berets/cap badge and combat boots on parade nights. Qualification badges and name tags.Think of time warping back to the 1980/90's. This is the first time I have seen this on parade nights, on Fld Ex that is a different story. My usual dress has been Corp shirt and comfortable shoes,slacks and ball cap. Thoughts?



3rd Herd,

This is indeed authorized dress for cadets etc now. I had posted this in one of the cadet threads about this time last year.

When our OG combats went out of the RegF/ResF system and once all Reg/Res and Air pers were converted to cadpat, the OG were supposed to be issued off by all Clothing Stores to the nearest cadet facilities so that they could be utilized there vice scrapped. So they are good to go.

On the small pack: It is authorized by message for use as a day pack...so get used to seeing it downtown. It's authorized.

Nothing OG is controlled. CTAT & ITAR controls are limited to "operational" or cadpat kit items. OG combats bought downtown at a surplus store are good to go for wear (including by the homeless).

Pers are also authorized to wear items of their military issued kit in some cases mixed with civilian dress. Ie, the parka can be worn to a scout camp etc provided that the CF rank insignia and markings are removed from it for the duration of it's use on civilian activities. 

The legal facts noted by Zell Dietrich are applicable to civilians/posers. The are not applicable to serving personnel who are authorized and thus legally posess these kit items. But, as he stated, if you modify without prior written consent any kit item you have been issued that is returnable, be prepared to pay for it if the mod gets picked up by clothing when you try to return it. And if you mod it and get caught learn from this:

"What do you mean I have to pay for it? (Well because now it's scrap not due to fair wear and tear buddy and I can't issue it to anyone else so the Queen says so.) "He didn't make him (points finger to next Supply Tech over at the next counter serving his buddy) pay for his." Really says I? Guess what now happens at the next counter? Needless to say, his 'buddy' wasn't too impressed with him!


----------



## 3rd Herd (2 Oct 2006)

Armyvern said:
			
		

> 3rd Herd,
> 
> This is indeed authorized dress for cadets etc now. I had posted this in one of the cadet threads about this time last year.
> 
> ...


----------



## armyvern (2 Oct 2006)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> Armyvern,
> I know it is okay for the cadets to wear the combats, my daughter cleaned out my old kit bag for clothing for her corps field ex's and some training nights. The issue here is CI's wearing the complete kit on parade nights. Now part of the issue is an attempt to form some sort of standardization for CI's partly for ident/safety purposes by parents and cadets. Secondly, there is a movement  which has been started to create a NCO CIC formal positions with in the cadet organization.



I have seen some CICs in some corps wearing the old OG arm bands with "CIC" on them to clearly identify themselves.

Not sure about any posns within the CIC 3rd. But in relation to combat boots etc I believe that it was Kyle Burrows who had posted relevant to that issue last year with a message that the DCadets had said that if they were able to legally purchase it at a surplus store etc...that they could wear it. 

Combat boots etc are able to be legally purchased at a surplus store. And on occassion cadpat can be purchased in surplus stores too....just not legally, as the controls in place are supposed to ensure that no surplus/used/scrap cadpat ever makes it to a surplus store.


----------



## Burrows (2 Oct 2006)

Members of the CIC who are entitled to combat dress are entitled to CADPAT and the rank slip-ons as such.  The rank slip-on has CIC as the unit identifier, although some have CANADA.  The only time I have seen members of the CIC wearing the old OD Brassards is at Cadet Training Centres to signify the Duty O for their respective companies.

As for CIs and combats - they are issued combats as their workdress at Cadet Training Centres, and I have personally seen 3 different variations of Civillian Instructor rank slip-ons; Red w white text, OD with OD text, and emerald green with yellow text.  I've seen CIs wear their civvies, and combats.  I think this is really a matter for the CO of the corps.


----------



## Kat Stevens (2 Oct 2006)

When I retired I was on the cusp of the relish suit issue.  When I went to turn in my gear, the binrat in residence (a civy, stand down headhunters)  said he'd rather write em off than count em 30 times, so I kept the OD combats.  I wear them to work almost every day, they work better than a tool belt, lots of pockets.  They also last forever when you're not crawling on your belly like a reptile. I really hope the cops don't come to lock me up, again....


----------



## armyvern (2 Oct 2006)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> When I retired I was on the cusp of the relish suit issue.  When I went to turn in my gear, the binrat in residence (a civy, stand down headhunters)  said he'd rather write em off than count em 30 times, so I kept the OD combats.  I wear them to work almost every day, they work better than a tool belt, lots of pockets.  They also last forever when you're not crawling on your belly like a reptile. I really hope the cops don't come to lock me up, again....



LOL Kat...swirling black helicopters in your future...

You are good to go. You must have gotten out right on the cusp of Army cadpat initial issues but prior to the Air types going into cadpat. Different rules then on the return/scrapping of the OG than what became applicable once both Air and Army went to cadpat....


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## redleafjumper (2 Oct 2006)

The last few posts seem to me to indicate a misunderstanding about the difference between a"CI" or civilian instructor, and the "CIC" or Cadet Instructors Cadre.  It's been a while, but back in the day CI's were not authorized to wear uniforms, although slip-ons were issued that said "Civilian Instructor" and they often wore the stuff anyway.  I do not know the current policy.

I hope that helps clear that up.


----------



## 3rd Herd (2 Oct 2006)

redleafjumper said:
			
		

> The last few posts seem to me to indicate a misunderstanding about the difference between a"CI" or civilian instructor, and the "CIC" or Cadet Instructors Cadre.  It's been a while, but back in the day CI's were not authorized to wear uniforms, although slip-ons were issued that said "Civilian Instructor" and they often wore the stuff anyway.  I do not know the current policy.
> 
> I hope that helps clear that up.



That is exactly my point we are CI's or "civilian instructors". If I have to run to the nearest surplus store to re-equip myself, I do not mind but I can think of a host of laws which cover civi's wearing uniforms some of which has been mentioned in the preceding posts. And yes the Cadet instructor Corps do look spiffy in their Cadpats now if someone would only show them how to shape their berets.


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## redleafjumper (2 Oct 2006)

I believe that it is Cadet Instructors Cadre, not "corps".  The shaping berets comment is really an unfair sweeping generalization; not forming a beret properly is not limited to members in any one trade or component.


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## harry8422 (2 Oct 2006)

don't make fun of someones beret you look stupid if you do instead help the forces and Canada look better by telling him how to do it properly..............pro patria


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## George Wallace (2 Oct 2006)

Pallleease!   Some Capitals and punctuation.  It would have been so much easier to figure out what you said, if you would have used some.


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## Neill McKay (2 Oct 2006)

redleafjumper said:
			
		

> I believe that it is Cadet Instructors Cadre, not "corps".  The shaping berets comment is really an unfair sweeping generalization; not forming a beret properly is not limited to members in any one trade or component.



Correct on all three points.


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## X Royal (2 Oct 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Pallleease!   Some Capitals and punctuation.  It would have been so much easier to figure out what you said, if you would have used some.


And maybe some proper spelling also please ("Palleease").  ;D ;D ;D


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## Shamrock (2 Oct 2006)

You mean Palleease isn't the language spoken in Palestine?


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## Sloaner (3 Oct 2006)

On the issue of CI's in uniforms, my understanding is that it is only authorized for summer training centers when the CI's are working under a longer term contract.  Throughout the normal training year at the LHQ, CI's should be dressed in appopriate civilian attire to present a polished and professional image while ensuring they are not mistaken for members of the CF, no different than any other contractor employed by the CF or DND.  The difference for employment at the CSTC's is the duration and nature of the contracts.  If a unit is asking the CI's to wear OG107 I'd be hard pressed to find justification for it, but ultimately the OC of the unit will make the determination on what they want to see.


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## 3rd Herd (3 Oct 2006)

Sloaner
thank you. That is just what I was looking for.


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## Lost_Warrior (3 Oct 2006)

Huh, funny I should stumble onto this topic.  I met my first "imposter" about a month ago.  Was taking my uncle to the mechanic to pick up his car.  Anyway, it wasnt ready yet, but we sparked a chat with one of the mechanics.  My uncle mentioned that I was in the military, and the mechanic says "That's great.  One of our guys is ex-JTF2"

I didn't think much of it, just said "oh yea?  Thats nice"   But then he calls the guy over.   So I start asking him how his service was in JTF2, and what years he was in.  He tells me he got in JTF2 in 1987 and left in 1991 right after serving in the first Gulf War.

I reminded him that JTF2 wasn't formed until 1993, at which point he winked and said "Thats what they want you to believe"

Didn't want to get into an argument since this was a garage my uncle went to all the time, so I just shook my head and walked away...


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## Haggis (3 Oct 2006)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> He tells me he got in JTF2 in 1987 and left in 1991 right after serving in the first Gulf War.
> 
> I reminded him that JTF2 wasn't formed until 1993, at which point he winked and said "Thats what they want you to believe"



During the First Gulf War, that was JTF 1-  Clearly you didn't get the memo......


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## Sloaner (3 Oct 2006)

The definitive reference I have used in the past is QR&O (Cadets) 5.21 - the quote at the end of the noted section (single para.) is "civilian instructors shall not wear uniforms"


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## Lost_Warrior (3 Oct 2006)

> During the First Gulf War, that was JTF 1-  Clearly you didn't get the memo.....



I must have missed it while I was on covert_super_ninja_commando_sniper operations in Farnham


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## Lost_Warrior (3 Oct 2006)

Oh crap, wait...that wasnt the first time I met a poser!

davidhmd's reference to "SEAL" just reminded me of a LONG while ago.  I was strapped for cash and in between jobs so I did one of those weekend pharma studies (one where they test a drug for effects...crap like that..) for 1500$...long story, not proud of it, but when rent is due, it happens.

Anyway, one of the guys doing the study, probably around 40 some odd years old.  His waist was about the size of one of my legs.  Probably one of the most scrawney people I have ever met in my life.  the guy wasn't more than 5"4...and about 120 pounds.  The guy walked around with a SEAL cap on, telling stories about his times in the NAVY SEALS.

What struck me as funny was, a few weeks before, there was a special on TLC about some operation where the SEALS were in South America, and took some airport at night.  Cant remember exactly where, or what the mission entailed, but the guy must have seen it because he was going on and on about the operation, how hard it was...etc etc.

At the time I wasn't in the forces yet, but this guy had bull$hit written all over him.   What was funny was, one of the doctors who was in charge was talking with me and my buddy and says "this guy is full of crap...he's a frenchman from Verdun"   

Not that we needed it to seal the deal (no pun intended  ), but it was funny none the less.


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## GUNS (3 Oct 2006)

Do you know who the worst kind of "wanna-be's" and "posers" are?

 People(I just can't call them soldiers) who spent less than a year in the military and go around as if they are still in.

I keep running into this guy, who can talk Christ off the cross. This guy looks only 35/40 but if you add up his years of experience(so he says) he has to be 60/70 years old.

Everytime I try to ask a question so I can disprove his BS, he has to be somewhere.

I finally nailed him last Armed Forces Day when he was bragging to some civilians about his military background.

It was not a pretty sight ( I kind of lost my cool) exposing this guy. Had to be done.

End result, have not seen or heard of him since.


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## Lost_Warrior (3 Oct 2006)

I think in some cases though, these people "posing" as military really need medical help more than they need to be publicly humiliated.  In some cases it's a sickness like any other and must be treated as such.


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## medaid (3 Oct 2006)

ah...posers... I've got one. I was with a buddy of mine who had just returned from Iraq as a member of the Marine's Force Recon (This was when it first started...yes the second Iraq War), there was this goof at the bar commenting on how hard it was for him to be the first ones into Baghdad, and how tough he was to be in Force Recon blah blah blah blah blah, and it was a miracle that he had survived and now he was back to Canada, on leave, visiting his parents. All the ladies were all like 'awww' 'that must've been harsh'! My buddy had this incredulous look on his face (I'd bet most of us would be if we had a poser claiming he just came back from Afghanistan, was a member of a Jump company, and didn't know the difference between a pistol and a rifle). So my buddy smiled at me, and said 'watch this!' He walked up to the guy, slapped him on the back, produced the challenge coin and had the ritual spiel. The guy looked dumbfounded, and when asked about his challenge coin, he mumbled something about leaving it at home. So my buddy, being the good natured guy that he was, asked him if the goof knew a few guys that my buddy had served with, while in Force Recon in Iraq. The guy, looking a little panicked now, shook his head, and mumbled something else incoherently, stood up, pale as a ghost and quickly walked out of the restaurant. We laughed. Hard. 

Then there was silence where we both pondered upon the stupidity of individuals who pretend to be, what many have fought so hard to become, and so many who have bled and died for, in order to make that thing proud.

I hate posers.


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## Journeyman (3 Oct 2006)

Lost_Warrior said:
			
		

> I think in some cases though, these people "posing" as military really need medical help more than they need to be publicly humiliated.  In some cases it's a sickness like any other and must be treated as such.


Hang on now. I will *not* stand idly by and let someone recommend medical help, when the time-honoured method of public humiliation is still available.  Let public mockery run its course, I say!  Medical help, indeed - - like I care about the poser's feelings or whatever.  :

...but if you're going to be a poser, it's best to know the colour of the boathouse


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## medaid (3 Oct 2006)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Hang on now. I will *not* stand idly by and let someone recommend medical help, when the time-honoured method of public humiliation is still available.  Let public mockery run its course, I say!  Medical help, indeed - - like I care about the poser's feelings or whatever.  :




+1 and many other numerical figures.


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## Haggis (3 Oct 2006)

What I find more irritating than the "street" posers is those that are still in uniform.

Last year I was interviewing applicants for a Class B job here at NDHQ.  One, a Bosnia vet, had noticed that he and I wore some of the same salad.  When I asked him about his experience, he went on to describe his part on an operation in Bosnia.  Unknown to him, we were both on the same Roto.  I was on that op as CSM and, _I think_, I had a _pretty good_ handle on who was in and attached to my company at the time.

He didn't get the job.


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## Zell_Dietrich (3 Oct 2006)

I have run into more Posers than I could keep track of in my life.  I'd say 90% of them are mentally ill.  Seriously,  some strange chemical imbalance or serious abuse issue which is making them do that.  I don't get angry when an epileptic has a seizure and knocks over my pop,  nor can I be too upset with the person who honestly believes they were a soldier.  Neither of them can help their illness. 

For me the measurements I use are personal choice(degree of controll over the situation), intent of malice and level of harm.  If the epileptic chose not to take his medication hoping that he'd have a seizure while driving and kill himself and others... well I'd be upset.  If a malicious person was, for example, claiming to be an airborne trooper and was saying things that would bring intense disrepute to that group.... I'd be livid three ways from Sunday.  Now if a crazy frail old man is claiming to be an ex navy seal,  praising them and hoping that some of that warm light would reflect on him positively... I find it sad,  but not something to be angry about.

Now for guys who claim to do stuff that they didn't in order to impress women,  yes there is harm there.  They are taking praise that is not theirs,  and yes the best punishment for them is a good old fashioned humiliation.


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## Journeyman (3 Oct 2006)

Zell_Dietrich said:
			
		

> Now for guys who claim to do stuff that they didn't in order to impress women.... the best punishment for them is a good old fashioned humiliation.


Well, if a guy is that inadequate that his only hope of hooking up with a woman is claiming to be a SEAL....I suspect that the humiliation may be inevitable - - shame the woman has be disappointed, in the process of the guy's self-humiliation though  >


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## orange.paint (3 Oct 2006)

I guess you wouldn't call them posers but the guys who wear from head to toe army PT gear or tour memorabilia.I have not problems with a guy wearing a shirt or a hat etc.I'm guilty of throwing on a old tour shirt or PT gear to go to the store.

One summer we were going to NFLD and on the ferry was this guy with SFOR hat SFOR coat SFOR shirt and SFOR pants and honestly we even thought we saw SFOR socks.I mean how much of it do you have to wear?Even if you were there I'm sure a armoured crest on a coat or a SFOR hat would be sufficient.

My wife said he looked like he fell in a bucket of SFOR.

Although he was most likely there,he rubbed me the wrong way.Sort of "look at where I've been".


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## geo (3 Oct 2006)

Hey... did you think that maybe his name is SFOR?
(I know his cousin Sforza...)


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## orange.paint (3 Oct 2006)

Not unless his family crest happened to look a lot like the shape of Bosnia with a star on it! ;D


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## geo (3 Oct 2006)

This goes back years but, would come across this old gent every rememberance day... wearing an old RCAF uniform with medals galore and rank badges coming out of the kazoo.  Having just gotten into the CF I bristled all over and was prepared to tell the guy off when one of the RCAF ass'n types told me his story... Was in the resistance and helped airmen out of some tight places - many of these airmen gave him some of their service medals, rank badges, items of their service dress, etc.... 

At that point, I got off my high horse and figured it was just as well to ignore the WW2 vet.


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## Lost_Warrior (3 Oct 2006)

> Hang on now. I will not stand idly by and let someone recommend medical help, when the time-honoured method of public humiliation is still available.  Let public mockery run its course, I say!  Medical help, indeed - - like I care about the poser's feelings or whatever.



I disagree.  I will admit, most (and I do mean MOST) cases are just some young punks who want to impress the ladies, or old guys who want to brag about things they never did.  A public humiliation is fully warranted.  However, there are cases, one of which I saw on TV about a year ago, where a man would dress up in full military dress and attend parades (I believe he was from Washington), and when finally confronted, he actually, really thought he was a former meber of the US army.  Now call me crazy, but that sounds more like a sickness, than something that warrants a public humiliation.


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## Journeyman (3 Oct 2006)

OK OK.....I posted my comment with ALL the authority that the Mess requires/deserves.  :

Yes, if some guy is a poser because of mental problems, get help. But even then, only if necessary. If he's some harmless old guy posing;  move along - nothing to see here.

If it's some punk wearing a combat jacket with his _Sk8tr Boi _ hat on backwards - - well, if you've got time in your life to jack up every dipshit that's dressed stupidly....go for it.

If, however, it's some wad in a bar, telling the ladies that he HALO jumped off the USS Ohio, landing in Gaddafi's strawberry sorbet.....then by all means, _out him_....with extreme sarcasm.


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## geo (3 Oct 2006)

yup.... agreed


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## Lost_Warrior (3 Oct 2006)

> If, however, it's some wad in a bar, telling the ladies that he HALO jumped off the USS Ohio, landing in Gaddafi's strawberry sorbet.....then by all means, out him....with extreme sarcasm.



LMFAO


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## orange.paint (3 Oct 2006)

....with extreme ass kickings.


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## Michael OLeary (3 Oct 2006)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> If, however, it's some wad in a bar, telling the ladies that he HALO jumped off the USS Ohio, landing in Gaddafi's strawberry sorbet.....then by all means, _out him_....with extreme sarcasm.



Just make sure you're right.


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## geo (3 Oct 2006)

if he's wrong and poser is not a poser..... will be wearing egg on face soon enough


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## Journeyman (3 Oct 2006)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Just make sure you're right.


Come on Mike. I'm _always_ right.  ;D

OK, one time I was wrong.......but the divorce lawyer sorted that one out.


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## Michael OLeary (3 Oct 2006)

Actually, she still says you're wrong.     ;D


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## Zell_Dietrich (3 Oct 2006)

I think I posted this link earlier,  a while ago  http://www.anzmi.net

I wonder if there is a similar site for Canada.     Super funny stories (and some sad ones) about posers.


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## orange.paint (3 Oct 2006)

Actually a friend decided to chat with a vet here in new brunswick about 5 years ago.He started out the night as a dispatch rider and pretty well covered every trade you could think of by nights end and bottoms up.(Nov 11th 2001)


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## 3rd Herd (3 Oct 2006)

A South African friend of mine moniters this site. Not as colouful as the Aussi/Kiwi site but they used to post if known full addresses
http://www.recce.co.za/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=19&bid=31&btitle=Bogus%20Operators&meid=86


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## armyvern (3 Oct 2006)

099* said:
			
		

> Actually a friend decided to chat with a vet here in new brunswick about 5 years ago.He started out the night as a dispatch rider and pretty well covered every trade you could think of by nights end and bottoms up.(Nov 11th 2001)



Hmmm, interesting. Sounds like my grandpa...who started out as a dispatch rider and went on to do many a varied thing before the war was done. And he loves to 'bottoms up' especially at the Hug and Slug. And he lives in New Brunswick.....

Nah, can't be him. He's got pics of his exploits (ohhh and his nice antique Harley) to back up his great tales...Some of them pics even published in books.

It's all beginning to remind me of a certain jumper I know tossing out the irresistible query one Nov 11th at the Kyrenia club to one of the great vets present....The vet asked him how many jumps he had and the jumper responded. Jumper then asked how many jumps the vet had and the answer was "One (and the look of dread crossed my husbands face)....Normandy, June 6th 1944." The look disappeared very quickly and 9er was most definitively....owned.


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## orange.paint (3 Oct 2006)

Armyvern said:
			
		

> Hmmm, interesting. Sounds like my grandpa...who started out as a dispatch rider and went on to do many a varied thing before the war was done. And he loves to 'bottoms up' especially at the Hug and Slug. And he lives in New Brunswick.....
> 
> Nah, can't be him. He's got pics of his exploits (ohhh and his nice antique Harley) to back up his great tales...Some of them pics even published in books.



But I'm sure to some people even though he has proof and pics to back him up it may sound far fetched.Hence how easy it would be to make an idoit of yourself.(It was in Grandfalls IIRC) 

Calling a real vet a liar....your going to the fire furnace for the afterlife.


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## 1feral1 (3 Oct 2006)

At the end of the day, in my opinion, I think anyone who poses or fantasises about military service, or worse, active service, has some potential mental/identity problems at hand.

I feel its disrespectful not only to those who have done their time, but more so to those who have been on active service, and have paid the ultimate price, by never coming back, and secondly for those that have seen the horrors men should never have to see and experience. 

Posers are a fact of life these days, and deserve to be PUBLICALLY humiliated by being named if and when caught.


My 2 cents,

Wes


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## redleafjumper (3 Oct 2006)

Sometimes some of the older folks don't remember very well, and feel obligated to fill in when that information is missing.  I recall one old sailor who was sure that there was a 6" gun on his corvette.  When I tactfully corrected him, he readily agreed.  As he said, he was a stoker, not a gunner.  That's not being a poser, that's just memory failing.


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## geo (3 Oct 2006)

(also talking about the other end of the ship)


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## GUNS (4 Oct 2006)

Most people can tell the difference between a poser that is one card short of a full deck and one that is using the military to further his/her image. I have no problem with the first type, its the second type that bothers me and in my mind are leaving themself open for attack.

As with many people here, we all have appeal hanging in our closets from every campaign or base or unit that we were on or attached to. I seldom wear most of it but I keep it as a reminder of the good old days. 

A point was made that some people go around as a walking billboard of their military exploits, though I am not fond of it, I reserve comment on it. If anyone visited me and I invite them to my rec. room they will find all my military souvenirs scattered around the room. Beer glasses, Caps, Pictures, Battledress uniform etc,etc. 

Where I display my military life on the walls of my rec. room some display their military life on their person.

To each his own, as long as its done in good taste.


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## Zell_Dietrich (4 Oct 2006)

I think that one time a guy thought I was a poser. I have a shirt that was given to me by a very good friend from camp mirage.  Unless you know the logo,  or read it very carefully you'd not know it was Army anything. (even if you read it,  likely you'd not know)  It fits me well, looks good and qualifies as business casual.  One day I wore it - it was on top of the rotation - and in the mess line I was asked when I was there.  I said it was a souvenir from a close friend.  (Who is as I type this in Afghanistan) I received that "I'm annoyed and constipated" look. Honestly, I wasn't trying to pose, it is just a nice tee-shirt.  (And I can't emphasise enough that 99.99% of people would have no clue it was army anything)

Oh well,  I got double chicken from the very next guy,  so it couldn't have been that big of a deal.


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## Jacqueline (9 Oct 2006)

What is an military poser, and what are the characteristics of a military wannabe? I've seen these words a few times.


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## Korus (9 Oct 2006)

A military poser is someone who pretends they're in the military and are "all that"
A military wannabe is someone who wants to be in the military so bad that they go to the extent of becoming a military poser, but don't actually go and join the military for whatever reason.

Or something like that.


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## career_radio-checker (9 Oct 2006)

someone like AAAA.

"I'm a former military Captain. LOL "

easily spotted by the use of MSN speak and poor use of grammar.

Some people can't get enough of the military life through the video games and war movies. They have to "become" a military member and be recognized in the military community when obviously they have never been near a recruiting office. You see it often in the media, people saying they were told to shoot civilians; or that they've been to Iraq. I'd equate it to people with a Star Wars fetish and have to convince themselves that they are a Jedi by turning everything (and sadly everyone) around them into something of the Star Wars environment.


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## medaid (9 Oct 2006)

Indeed. It's kind of sad when I drive by to a local tactical gear shop to pick something up, and have a kid inside who's bragging about the new Safari dropleg that he's got for his new airsoft pistol. I have nothing against airsoft, I think it's a great training tool (although now simmunition is better  ;D), however, its some of the people that's currently playing the games that I have a problem with. 

Some of the individuals playing these games are ranked pretty highly up there as a military wannabe. They've gone to a point where these people think they're Spec Ops guys running around the small paintball range duelling it out with other Spec Ops guys  ??? I just dont get it.

Once I was in the shop this guy kept on goin on and on about how great his shooting skills were and what kind of weapons he owned. Natrually I chirpped in and asked if he's ever though about a career full/part-time with the Forces. You would never believe what this guy said. 

'The army is a bunch of *LOSERS *. It's filled with people who cant get a real job. I'd never join. I'll probably outshoot any of them. Did you know I can put a BB in your head at a 100 meters?' 

.......... 

I shook my head and left. Maybe I was asking for that one?


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## my72jeep (9 Oct 2006)

3rd Herd said:
			
		

> Not about Posers-But about the uniform issues​
> Since I am going to be stuck here in Calgary for the next two years I went and again signed on to CI at one of the local PPCLI cadet corps. Having been in this position with all three service branches over the years I have seen quite a few interesting dress codes but this is a new one. So I am seeking some wisdom and thoughts.
> 
> The issues here is that the CI's with the Cadet OC's apparent blessing wear the old style combats, berets/cap badge and combat boots on parade nights. Qualification badges and name tags.Think of time warping back to the 1980/90's. This is the first time I have seen this on parade nights, on Fld Ex that is a different story. My usual dress has been Corp shirt and comfortable shoes,slacks and ball cap. Thoughts?


The OD-107 debate is mute but CI's should not be wearing a beret or any type of cap badge and they should be easily identified as a CI. (ie Ci tabs)


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## my72jeep (9 Oct 2006)

Armyvern said:
			
		

> Hmmm, interesting. Sounds like my grandpa...who started out as a dispatch rider and went on to do many a varied thing before the war was done. And he loves to 'bottoms up' especially at the Hug and Slug. And he lives in New Brunswick.....
> 
> Nah, can't be him. He's got pics of his exploits (ohhh and his nice antique Harley) to back up his great tales...Some of them pics even published in books.
> 
> It's all beginning to remind me of a certain jumper I know tossing out the irresistible query one Nov 11th at the Kyrenia club to one of the great vets present....The vet asked him how many jumps he had and the jumper responded. Jumper then asked how many jumps the vet had and the answer was "One (and the look of dread crossed my husbands face)....Normandy, June 6th 1944." The look disappeared very quickly and 9er was most definitively....owned.


A few years ago one of my cadets had just passed his jump course a week before and we had brought him to a vets brunch at our local Legion. all was going well till and older vet cornerd him and asked about his jumps. the young cadet was all hoped up and told him how cool it was, at this point the vet informed him about his one and only jump and how uncool it was. He was one of the few they gave basic jump training to before they put them on a plane for Arnhem. needless to say he had a ready audience after that.


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