# Recruiting Standards



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:04:59 -0700*
Joan from Ian:
I missed the announcement, although I do know that DND had been
atempting/planning to raise the min. requirement for entry as an Officer.
Perhaps someonce can give me a summary or a URL for review. I‘ve also heard
from several sources that the minimum age limit for entry to the PRes has
been lowered to 16. I would like confirmation on that if someone can.
My personal opinion is that 16 is too low. That‘s  what it was when I joined
and that‘s what the age min. was for many years. Doubtless it helps in
bringing in recruits. But that one year or half a year makes a big
difference in the maturity and to some degree physical strength suppose
standards will not be downgraded of the young entrants. I was 16 when I
joined and there was a tendency for the "Student Militia" to be considered
just older cadets but then we had many that were underage - docs weren‘t
checked as much then. And of course this lowering will have a drastic
effect on the Cadet Movement - "stealing" senior cadets at just the age when
their training and leadership is most needed. Well, as I said somwhere in a
recent posting, it‘s a question of whether the Pres is "needin‘ or feedin‘ "
and obviously they are needin‘.
----- Original Message -----
From: Joan O. Arc 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: QMSI
>
 John,
>
> Given some of your comments below, I take it, then, that you probably
agree
> with the announcement or was it just speculation? last week re: new
> recruiting standards/targets for the CF? More education, intellectual
> flexibility, etc., espec. among the officer class...
>
> Apologies if you guys have already covered this issue - I‘m running
behind
> on the discussion, I‘m afraid. Caught the punch recipes, though. Groovy.
To
> think that in college the best we could come up with was lemonade, vodka
and
> - yikes! - blue curacao...
>
> Terribly sorry to hear about your mom. Glad, though, that the "Big Guy"
was
> listening to your prayers.
>
> : Joan
> Yes, I‘m back!
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Peter deVries" <rsm_kes_cc254@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:30:52 *
Ian,
   Yeah, you only have to be 16 when you join the PRes, but you have to be 
17 by the time you complete your QL3. At least, this is what I heard was 
going on in my regiment.
Peter
>From: "Ian Edwards" 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: 
>Subject: Recruiting Standards
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:04:59 -0700
>
>Joan from Ian:
>
>I missed the announcement, although I do know that DND had been
>atempting/planning to raise the min. requirement for entry as an Officer.
>Perhaps someonce can give me a summary or a URL for review. I‘ve also heard
>from several sources that the minimum age limit for entry to the PRes has
>been lowered to 16. I would like confirmation on that if someone can.
>
>My personal opinion is that 16 is too low. That‘s  what it was when I 
>joined
>and that‘s what the age min. was for many years. Doubtless it helps in
>bringing in recruits. But that one year or half a year makes a big
>difference in the maturity and to some degree physical strength suppose
>standards will not be downgraded of the young entrants. I was 16 when I
>joined and there was a tendency for the "Student Militia" to be considered
>just older cadets but then we had many that were underage - docs weren‘t
>checked as much then. And of course this lowering will have a drastic
>effect on the Cadet Movement - "stealing" senior cadets at just the age 
>when
>their training and leadership is most needed. Well, as I said somwhere in a
>recent posting, it‘s a question of whether the Pres is "needin‘ or feedin‘ 
>"
>and obviously they are needin‘.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joan O. Arc 
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:08 AM
>Subject: Re: QMSI
>
>
> >
>  John,
> >
> > Given some of your comments below, I take it, then, that you probably
>agree
> > with the announcement or was it just speculation? last week re: new
> > recruiting standards/targets for the CF? More education, intellectual
> > flexibility, etc., espec. among the officer class...
> >
> > Apologies if you guys have already covered this issue - I‘m running
>behind
> > on the discussion, I‘m afraid. Caught the punch recipes, though. 
>Groovy.
>To
> > think that in college the best we could come up with was lemonade, vodka
>and
> > - yikes! - blue curacao...
> >
> > Terribly sorry to hear about your mom. Glad, though, that the "Big Guy"
>was
> > listening to your prayers.
> >
> > : Joan
> > Yes, I‘m back!
> >
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:29:08 -0000*
Ian,
Unfortunately, I can‘t give you a URL or exact reference. I*think* it was an 
item on the CBC or maybe CTV evening news one night last week when I was 
off the list. I remember, because I wished at the time that I was still 
*on* the list so I could ask people what they thought about it!, but a 
search of the CBC archives yields nothing, so maybe I dreamed the whole 
thing up, or something.
Sorry ‘bout that,
Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Peter deVries" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:30:52
Ian,
   Yeah, you only have to be 16 when you join the PRes, but you have to be
17 by the time you complete your QL3. At least, this is what I heard was
going on in my regiment.
Peter
>From: "Ian Edwards" 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: 
>Subject: Recruiting Standards
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:04:59 -0700
>
>Joan from Ian:
>
>I missed the announcement, although I do know that DND had been
>atempting/planning to raise the min. requirement for entry as an Officer.
>Perhaps someonce can give me a summary or a URL for review. I‘ve also heard
>from several sources that the minimum age limit for entry to the PRes has
>been lowered to 16. I would like confirmation on that if someone can.
>
>My personal opinion is that 16 is too low. That‘s  what it was when I
>joined
>and that‘s what the age min. was for many years. Doubtless it helps in
>bringing in recruits. But that one year or half a year makes a big
>difference in the maturity and to some degree physical strength suppose
>standards will not be downgraded of the young entrants. I was 16 when I
>joined and there was a tendency for the "Student Militia" to be considered
>just older cadets but then we had many that were underage - docs weren‘t
>checked as much then. And of course this lowering will have a drastic
>effect on the Cadet Movement - "stealing" senior cadets at just the age
>when
>their training and leadership is most needed. Well, as I said somwhere in a
>recent posting, it‘s a question of whether the Pres is "needin‘ or feedin‘
>"
>and obviously they are needin‘.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joan O. Arc 
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:08 AM
>Subject: Re: QMSI
>
>
> >
>  John,
> >
> > Given some of your comments below, I take it, then, that you probably
>agree
> > with the announcement or was it just speculation? last week re: new
> > recruiting standards/targets for the CF? More education, intellectual
> > flexibility, etc., espec. among the officer class...
> >
> > Apologies if you guys have already covered this issue - I‘m running
>behind
> > on the discussion, I‘m afraid. Caught the punch recipes, though.
>Groovy.
>To
> > think that in college the best we could come up with was lemonade, vodka
>and
> > - yikes! - blue curacao...
> >
> > Terribly sorry to hear about your mom. Glad, though, that the "Big Guy"
>was
> > listening to your prayers.
> >
> > : Joan
> > Yes, I‘m back!
> >
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:27:44 -0500*
The age limit is in fact at 16.  As far as I know the physical standards 
have not been changed to reflect this, but then again it doesn‘t matter.  
They are so low anyways that I would be surprised if someone that age 
couldn‘t meet them.
Matt S
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:28:40 EST*
I was obviously speaking just about NCM‘s.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:28:21 EST*
    Ian and all, as you know I‘m only 16, but joining the reserve and am 
targeting to get on a QL2 or possibly a QL2/3 combined course this summer.
    I totally see where you‘d be coming from with being sceptaclesp? about 
letting in youngin‘s of 16 years.
    I think for the most part, 16 would be too young. Reasoning: Most 16 year 
olds haven‘t done a REAL long stretch away from home, and lived under 
somewhat stressful circumstancesie: been to university, or whatever Those 
first coupla weeks of basic could be killer for one this unexperienced.
    Also, mental toughness is almost certainly not there, I wouldn‘t think.
    LastlyI think, being ‘under-age‘ doesn‘t help your inclusion with the 
‘lads‘. Alas, I hear stories about getting green troops smashed, etc, then 
running ‘em sick the next morning.Not that running is needed in the recipe 
for sickness on the next morn
    However, there are circumstances where one could be *somewhat* 
experiencedlike Cadet camps, which I KNOW ARE NOTHING like ‘real‘ camps, but 
still it gives a sense of put up or go home.Atleast it used to  Also, some 
kids are just naturally a little more mentally and physically suited for 
military life, atleast for relatively short periods.
    I think, overall, that 16 is a little young, but alternatively, I‘d be 
kinda pissy if I wasn‘t allowed to be processed ‘till next june/july.
    So I guess if the standards aren‘t lowered AT ALL, there‘s little harm in 
incuding us lads.
            -Matt
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Greg Hawes <hawes@SEDSystems.ca>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:57:30 -0600 (CST)*
As per the Recruiting Information Guide:
   http://209.82.43.37/main_frame.html   
Basic Eligibility
Before enrolment in the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following criteria:
* be a Canadian Citizen 
* be 18 years of age, or 16 with parents‘ permission 
* have a minimum grade 10 education at a provincial 
   standard 
*  be free of any legal obligations 
greg
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Tom Campbell" <tomcampbell@canada.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:05:51 -0500*
I can verify that. I spent last summer as a Basic Recruit Training Section
Commander in Sunny Meaford. In my Section I had around five or six Recruits
who were 16. Personally I found very little difference between them and
Recruits who were older. It had more to do with their maturity which I have
found to be independent of age.
Prior to last summer I know this surprised my Recruiting NCO at my Unit so
much that he had to get confirmation from higher that we were allowed to
recruit 16 year olds.
----------
Tom Campbell
from Work
TomCampbell@canada.com
ICQ - i can‘t remember right now
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *CoastDanny@aol.com* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:24:26 EST*
Just a thought, a quick phone call to the nearest CFRC should clear that 
issue up.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Wm. Durrant" <lgunnerl@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:33:37 -0500*
Greg,
    Troops under the age of 18 can not be put in an operational theatre.
-Bill

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Greg Hawes" 
  To: 
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 3:57 PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
  >
  > As per the Recruiting Information Guide:
  >    http://209.82.43.37/main_frame.html   
  >
  > Basic Eligibility
  >
  > Before enrolment in the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following 
criteria:
  >
  > * be a Canadian Citizen
  > * be 18 years of age, or 16 with parents' permission
  > * have a minimum grade 10 education at a provincial
  >    standard
  > *  be free of any legal obligations
  >
  > greg
  >
  >
  > --------------------------------------------------------
  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
  > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
  > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
  > message body.
BODY 
BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top MARGIN-TOP: 50px FONT-WEIGHT: bold 
FONT-SIZE: 10pt COLOR: 000000 BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat 
FONT-FAMILY: Arial
Greg,
 Troops under the age of 18 can not be put in an
operational theatre.
-Bill
  
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Greg Hawes" lthawes@SEDSystems.cagt
  To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagt
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 3:57 PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
  gt gt As per the Recruiting Information 
Guide:gt
    http://209.82.43.37/main_fra 
me.html
  gt gt Basic Eligibilitygt gt Before enrolment 
in the
  Canadian Forces, you must meet the following criteria:gt 
gt * be a
  Canadian Citizen gt * be 18 years of age, or 16 with parents' 
permission
  gt * have a minimum grade 10 education at a provincial gt
   standard gt * be free of any legal 
obligations
  gt gt greggt gt gt
  --------------------------------------------------------gt 
NOTE:
  To remove yourself from this list, send a messagegt to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the 
account
  you wish togt remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in
  thegt message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:00:13 -0000*
As I recall, whatever I saw, or read, suggested that, among other things, 
the minimum educational requirement be increased from Grade 10 to high 
school graduation.
Maybe it was an op. ed. in the Globe and Mail by a general or military 
policy analyst or something. Anyway, sorry to have raised the issue without 
being able to provide more specifics...
- Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: CoastDanny@aol.com
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:24:26 EST
Just a thought, a quick phone call to the nearest CFRC should clear that
issue up.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Wm. Durrant" <lgunnerl@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:39:15 -0500*
  --Hopefully, we won‘t need to find out.
  -bill
  That makes more sense on the Armed Forces part.  Are those peacetime 
rules, or are they wartime as well?
  Thanks,
  Greg.
BODY 
BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top MARGIN-TOP: 50px FONT-WEIGHT: bold 
FONT-SIZE: 10pt COLOR: 000000 BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat 
FONT-FAMILY: Arial

  --Hopefully, we won‘t need to find 
out.

  -bill


  That makes more sense on the Armed Forces part. Are those 
peacetime
  rules, or are they wartime as well?

  Thanks,

  Greg.


name="iamcdn2.gif"
R0lGODlhWAAfAIcAAAAAADMAAGYAAJkAAMwAAP8AAAAzADMzAGYzAJkzAMwzAP8zAABmADNmAGZm
AJlmAMxmAP9mAACZADOZAGaZAJmZAMyZAP ZAADMADPMAGbMAJnMAMzMAP/MAAD/ADP/AGb/AJn/
AMz/AP//AAAAMzMAM2YAM5kAM8wAM/8AMwAzMzMzM2YzM5kzM8wzM/8zMwBmMzNmM2ZmM5lmM8xm
M/9mMwCZMzOZM2aZM5mZM8yZM/ ZMwDMMzPMM2bMM5nMM8zMM//MMwD/MzP/M2b/M5n/M8z/M///
MwAAZjMAZmYAZpkAZswAZv8AZgAzZjMzZmYzZpkzZswzZv8zZgBmZjNmZmZmZplmZsxmZv9mZgCZ
ZjOZZmaZZpmZZsyZZv ZZgDMZjPMZmbMZpnMZszMZv/MZgD/ZjP/Zmb/Zpn/Zsz/Zv//ZgAAmTMA
mWYAmZkAmcwAmf8AmQAzmTMzmWYzmZkzmcwzmf8zmQBmmTNmmWZmmZlmmcxmmf9mmQCZmTOZmWaZ
mZmZmcyZmf ZmQDMmTPMmWbMmZnMmczMmf/MmQD/mTP/mWb/mZn/mcz/mf//mQAAzDMAzGYAzJkA
zMwAzP8AzAAzzDMzzGYzzJkzzMwzzP8zzABmzDNmzGZmzJlmzMxmzP9mzACZzDOZzGaZzJmZzMyZ
zP ZzADMzDPMzGbMzJnMzMzMzP/MzAD/zDP/zGb/zJn/zMz/zP//zAAA/zMA/2YA/5kA/8wA//8A
/wAz/zMz/2Yz/5kz/8wz//8z/wBm/zNm/2Zm/5lm/8xm//9m/wCZ/zOZ/2aZ/5mZ/8yZ// Z/wDM
/zPM/2bM/5nM/8zM///M/wD//zP//2b//5n//8z//////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEA
AAAh QQEDwAAACwAAAAAWAAfAAcIzQADCRxIsKDBgwgTKlzIMOGKQNciSpxIsaLFixgzatx4EQBE
jiBDihyZ0WNHACRTqkxp0iIAlCtjysTYsuLLmThzXqtJ8abOnyprvhy6E6jRkTx3ovR5tKnGpDeZ
Op1q86PEqDCpar1qNSLWrWB3dlVKNqxWqEuzmnWKtuxatmO/voXbM 1cuhPl3jXaVupenX3V/s0p
dOjSwUCTXhWMWKZir4wbr3zsVrLjsYst46TsVzNLzJ4Bgw69eTTpy6f5Gl7NurXr17Bjy549NCAA
IfkEBA8AAAAsAAAAAFgAHwAHCNQAAwkcSLCgwYMIEypcyDDhikDXIkqcSLGixYsYM2rceBEARI4g
Q4ocmdEjRwAASKpcCdLkRpQsY8qk6FIjzJk4WdYsmTKnz5E1UQrtGfHmz6MvP0o0upQo0qcWd15j
WtQp1KtFlVatSBUrVKldu3pFCtbqVLNjj5blijatz7U027rFCXei2Ll0tZ5li/dp3aZ9yeoNKzfw
yr9bDb9VOpTpXcUqpXYsDFmk5KiUK7fUO1nzzMt8PccEHVf0aM6mBaf2Snp1XtdXG8ueTbu27du4
c9MOCAAh QQEDwAAACwAAAAAWAAfAAcI6AADCRxIsKDBgwgTKlzIMOGKQNciSpxIsaLFixgzatx4
EQBEjiBDihyZ0SNJigAAnFzJ8prJlilbyhT5kmXMmTg11lx5M6fPijVTClXJsefPoy4/SjS6kSnS
nDtdEgXp9OnMqFUxZrVqU2nErVKFSuX6E tUoFOHkvVpVmtasWtxtm2qNu5Vr2NLqqxrFyZesDf5
9uX59yzKt2AHNy3sdilcxSfnWgwsGDJNpUOzio1p2DJVvCQTe54MeqTo0ShL0 yMuqTqkKdbf31N
lbVs0rf7Rs1tdTdvpL5/l81MvLjx48iTK19ePCAAIfkEBA8AAAAsAAAAAFgAHwAHCP8AAwkcSLCg
wYMIEypcyDDhikDXIkqcSLGixYsYM2rceBEARI4gQ4ocmdEjyZMWAQBAidIky5cqX5J0KfNkzJoh
aeIUeXPnRpoqg670mXIo0ZIfJfY8SnEp04o6rzl9KtUo1aZJI059uvVq1K5ahSodGnSs1bBXU2at
irFnTKFky7KdCJbrWrBu49K16rQu069nO95cSvis36OANb7VO3Zv08BpE7dlXNix5bR070JGy7ly
48uYtWqe/Nkz58 hRT8mXZXx6bmoUwOFK3gl3MFyxcYOHTX1a95rfcOWHdz3YaK9jW mmlz2crvC
o6uVTl1p8erAsVO/zb279 /gw4sDFx8QACH5BAQoAAAALAAAAABYAB8ABwjuAAMJHEiwoMGDCBMq
XMgw4YpA1yJKnEixosWLGDNq3HgRAESOIEOKHJnRI8mTKFN2/KiypcuQJl/KnGkxJs2bM20C2MkT
p0 RNiPu/EkUZNBrQ4sqxXg06dKnE5sCKMlzqlCrPa9ahbqSotOKTodWxZr1K9eoLK8y3Zr0q9ut
Z9F6hbuWbFS4ZuMiTYuULtipbfEK1uuVb967avsilnj4rNS1jO1GXkxYqGG/kxO/pVz5cUeykhOL
7sxyLOa gE1rBX0a6tHKT1/DVip7NtHatn3izn1zN  cfH/rDi68N/HiOU0rX868ufPn0J8HBAAh
 QQEKAAAACwAAAAAWAAfAAcI/wADCRxIsKDBgwgTKlzIMOGKQNciSpxIsaLFixgzatx4EQBEjiBD
ihyZ0SPJkxYBAECJ0iTLlypfknQp82TMmiFp4hR5c dGmiqDrvSZcijRkh8l9jxKcSnTijqvOX0q
1SjVpkkjTn269WrUrlqFKh0adKzVsFdTZq2KsWdMoWTLsp0IlutasG7j0rXqtC7Tr2c73lxK Kzf
o4A1vtU7dm/TwGkTt2Vc2LHltHTvQkbLuXLjy5i1ap782TPnz6FFPyZdlfHpuahTA4UreCXcwXLF
xg4dNfVr3mt9w5Yd3Pdhor2Nb6aaXPZyu8Kjq5VOXWnx6sCxU7/Nvbv37 DDiwMXHxAAIfkEBAAA
AAAsAAAAAFgAHwAHCP8AAwkcSLCgwYMIEypcyDDhikDXIkqcSLGixYsYM2rceBEARI4gQ4ocmdEj
yZMoU3b8qLKly5AmX8qcaTEmzZszbeLcqVInz5EAAEgMKtPn0KBErwn9GRHp0aIsJyZtOpVp1ZxR
m9ZcylQpV5o r1LtOhanTrFDjzotu5ZqW7Ven6qdmvTt0KhoKdIVirTu0r1S//rlCriv4Ipnv3Yk
fFgu4LRy45aVXFVsYpFrKyv2yjhw5MCNJ9/1zJGoX9JjH0  ajq0ZKl4N29l /Wx6teaaaMevVvq
atenf6NWHVx006xoO t2rPw17ubFnR9HXJl05tqN3w4OPVi05axzNzszNbzdLWfQlNuOJ 9WsVGy
8GuCj0 fd/379vHff6 fLP/ Vs0HoFXkFWjggQgmqOCCCgYEACH5BAQAAAAALAAAAABYAB8ABwj/
AAMJHEiwoMGDCBMqXMgw4YpAACJKnEixosWLGDNq3IgRIsePIEOK1OhxpMmTKC2WTMmyJciVLmPK
pAhzpslr1yTinFkTAM6fEXParAg0qNCYNXfqVDqUItOhMI9OfNrUaFUAK6lavbr0akmtOpcW9Sl0
LFmzRnMyffpzbVmwEb9Kvej2rNK7R9m 3dvVatu3F VurEt2KuCtQQ33LbxVb DFHIs6dkoYMVjJ
UuEKjqz2MOLClRmL9ut59MTNGvF Jhy69eHJFbPODStadd/KsHGX1qyY6GLbjfMK7117 GjehjP3
xryc723mwXfPjmvxL9Gdf/FqP5uccVuxdjGDIe3JtTxJ8 g/kk/Pnnr79zThy3c///36 l7x29fP
v3/TgAAh QQEAAAAACwAAAAAWAAfAAcI/wADCRxIsKDBgwgTKlzIMOGKQNciSpxIsaLFixgzatx4
EQBEjiBDihyZ0SPJkyhTdvyosqXLkCZfypxpMSbNmzNt4typUifPkQAASAwq0 fQoESvCf0ZEenR
oiwnJm06lWnVnFGb1lzKVClXmj6vUu06FqdOsUOPOi27lmpbtV6fqp2a9O3QqGgp0hWKtO7SvVL/
 uUKuK/gime/diR8WC7gtHLjlpVcVWxikWsrK/bKOHDkwI0n3/XMkahf0mMfT75qOrRkqXg3b2X7
9bHq15ppox69W pq16d/o1YdXHTTrGg763as/DXu5sWdH0dcmXTm2o3fDg49WLTlrHM3OzM1vN0t
Z9CU244n71axUbLwa4KPT593/fv28d9/r58s//5WzQegVeQVaOCBCCao4IIKBgQAIfkEBAAAAAAs
AAAAAFgAHwAHCP8AAwkcSLCgwYMIEypcyDDhikAAIkqcSLGixYsYM2rciBEix48gQ4rU6HGkyZMo
LZZMybIlyJUuY8qkCHOmyWvXJOKcWRMAzp8Rc9qsCDSo0Jg1d pUOpQi06Ewj0582tRoVQArqVq9
uvRqSa06lxb1KXQsWbNGczJ9 nNtWbARv0q96Pas0rtH2b7d29Vq27cX5W6sS3Yq4K1BDfctvFVv
4MUcizp2ShgxWMlS4QqOrPYw4sKVGYv263n0xM0a8X4mHLr14ckVs84NK1p138qwcZfWrJjoYtuN
8wrvXXv4aN6GM/fGvJzvbebBd8 Oa/Ev0Z1/8Wo/m5xxW7F2MYMh7cm1PEnz6D ST8 eevv3NOHL
dz///fr6XvHb18 /f9OAACH5BAQAAAAALAAAAABYAB8ABwj/AAMJHEiwoMGDCBMqXMgw4YpA1yJK
nEixosWLGDNq3HgRAESOIEOKHJnRI8mTKFN2/KiypcuQJl/KnGkxJs2bM23i3KlSJ8 RAABIDCrT
59CgRK8J/RkR6dGiLCcmbTqVadWcUZvWXMpUKVeaPq9S7ToWp06xQ486LbuWalu1Xp qnZr07dCo
aCnSFYq07tK9Uv/65Qq4r CKZ792JHxYLuC0cuOWlVxVbGKRaysr9so4cOTAjSff9cyRqF/SYx9P
vmo6tGSpeDdvZfv1serXmmmjHr1b6mrXp3 jVh1cdNOsaDvrdqz8Ne7mxZ0fR1yZdObajd8ODj1Y
tOWsczc7MzW83S1n0JTbjifvVrFRsvBrgo9Pn3f9 /bx33 vnyz//lbNB6BV5BVo4IEIJqjgggoG
BAAh QQEAAAAACwAAAAAWAAfAAcI/wADCRxIsKDBgwgTKlzIMOGKQAAiSpxIsaLFixgzatyIESLH
jyBDitTocaTJkygtlkzJsiXIlS5jyqQIc6bJa9ck4pxZEwDOnxFz2qwINKjQmDV36lQ6lCLToTCP
Tnza1GhVACupWr269GpJrTqXFvUpdCxZs0ZzMn36c21ZsBG/Sr3o9qzSu0fZvt3b1WrbtxflbqxL
dirgrUEN9y28VW/gxRyLOnZKGDFYyVLhCo6s9jDiwpUZi/brefTEzRrxfiYcuvXhyRWzzg0rWnXf
yrBxl9asmOhi243zCu9de/ho3oYz98a8nO9t5sF3z45r8S/RnX/xaj bnHFbsXYxgyHtybU8SfPo
P5JPz556 /c04ct3P//9 vpe8dvXz79/04AAIfkEBJYAAAAsAAAAAFgAHwCGmZmZmRERAAAAzAAA
3QAA3d3duwAAiIiIzMzMqgAAIgAA7u7uqhERu7u7mWZmmUREmSIid3d3VQAAdwAAmYiIiHd3MwAA
RERERAAAiGZmiDMzmVVViJmZiAAAuxERRBERERERZmZmZgAAVVVVIiIid2ZmmQAAqqqqEQAAqjMz
mTMzdzMzzCIiqiIizDMzqkREu8zMiFVVu6qqmXd3VRERiCIizIiI3SIiMzMzdyIid0REzN3dMxER
u5mZdxER3TMz7gAARCIiiEREqpmZzBERIhERMyIiu1VV3czMu0RERDMziGZVuzMzVTMzuyIiZjMz
ZiIi3d3uuzMiqhEAmVVEuxEAIiIRzLu7zKqqu3d33aqq3e7u3aq7iIh3qgARZkREzMy7MyIzmWZV
u4iI3Xd3d3dmu2ZVmYh3zJmZVWZmVVVEdzMid1VViBER3RER3VVVqmZmzLuquyIzzKq7zKqZ3e7d
zJmIzFVVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB/ AABQAhIWGhwAchoqIjY6Jj4KRjoyIHCQA
bgQEmpybnZ2fnjcFpaanqKmqq6h1P6Kwm56yoQIABAOgormioQQ/SDusrFgIw6vCLqG6y7OeILed
RJvTs5oDnpouwQVIpzvepcLdpUgsZKvhrK/T0rjZ2J7VttjVbvW49wTT0/U3CMKEcRsoMCCCO0RY
FCtgrGEBcBAZSkSQhNo Uf0u9tNExBaRegM 3huZq S XCwQqEQCkCW4lgjmgFFpB9sAFyoR2EAD
MZhPhzsQ/OAH8mNJkiVz0fvINKRTp02ZpsxJtSqCLC5sYGFBhOkdGy4GjLFKliLUs1HRDvB41ikD
EwH/DHz0cNZFg7JVZRDxsHdASLkhichQ2SDChZwncETIySQtU8B0HduCHHiCAgwiaCgoIkHEXqZy
rsBAMDrnFaowrsiBGvkvE8IRQAiQAQBBCAE4KJxA4KLrgNaOf4eM7BEwEQMKFDBIUWHDixUglDx4
IVyK6NOi78KA0WNMAxgNjvSlG1mumQZgGvTAIeDAgQYNQrinAIOJ3PvHxwvni38tAAMeAOiBBQIw
kIEDTgA4gAg8VPACeU7AB54MPcggA3xHeJDFd2MESN5xHoQ4BngZkiAABQdQCN8J8CVRRX7k7Qei
jADa4qEHEwiAgQMHhHgjBi84UEWIcsAHX4dOOMEE/xMeHsGiFD56aEAVTKjHpAE8CDBDFx6cZ2QD
V4Yo4I0AggiggDZ6qIAAOXSxwZkemuDBBjhawINi8MlQgwQTeCCCBR8k4IGTL/x5WRs vtCDDxZY
wKgADlTgQQUjRGBkDR80KgIDAAaQmQGMWoCoB0MG2J6HDAggQAYHpOBjFQwMaUALGKAQwAsXCDDC
CQcoIQANRnwggQBFbMCAEwpYwIAKRgggRAshZrpss5AeoEGuIwAwxAECTNCCDgIY8YCnAlgQRBAS
oIBCDC144aGNnLah6gEVMOCBoO66a2 5G1QAgAAkHABABcRGsIEYzZZQQQe/OuCADwIoUUELEDOw
gf xKLTnILcXCGxiCq2u6aYHAqAQggNUNCHABTO0ACvJADCQAAPyClDBAYIyYO8UHnDKQGcHODAE
bl3MUMOvQf8swBcTW1BDFw9ATMMBVKCAAXM6E1hBFwxooKu/EXzgANdrzlBvuV1MLG8QUHvBsy06
M8CwzVzLHLfbcXuwghHsBVyB1Ac8wAANAqzQhQpeMNAEDwRO7bUEzem8Jo9e5KBrFwCckIIGQViQ
MaupKpA0w1MLrvOJdjOQ8QgHxM0A3nEHoAAPEPwbMAURIC34sCsc0EIbKEgQwAoRH0B86VlD2gUc
uY/g7wkfKOBDC0VoebYFFWTAAOCmpwpAAHEPi0P/BSroDD74bYCfHAM84lYB7isHHgDvB9SAAg0t
VED8B8YLwAPUkrNZBU7QPH9dwFYPyED1MsA1AYjOAQzIEfJOF7PzBSBjIdgA GKHge0JAHIZ JcR
3JO7jp1BBYR7QheCIAAfVCBqv4JaxiIQAwYEoHooAkDzMEesfkGAQDxKFfaW4EH CQ58tgjA baX
sQtAQIkBYJQSwQWCEgghVyQIQQkKSAhf9Y5wRohADtb0gRE84APECoEKniAbehEwfhSQTQhiMCwB
sGEEAXBg0KKoOyV6D4pQbEOWiJUcDARABRokEMAqIBsclIE9RZBPBExkhBLUYE0CCALEdLUBFaBR
/1UXMNEFQtAF9lghBBS4jQBAkIMsFaEEhEPBCDLwKAWEYFxKTCIg0xeAGnwhBCE4UAZi8MQo6oCE
EaDXIOh1gEHEgFUZeMATSuAeNhyzAkKAQBu UIYDUBNFAnPPzaylwgNkAAoxMKcKHkAvFUAAAgzM
gApy b0A8BKQSlSBBlTAy3uq4ACKWOYhDjADClCAA4MQhBA2kIhBUKACM2AVIQSWUENoIAAQuChG
NdpPJXY0jwDopzZ7ac SirSkGjgoAAS20pYKDKEwbakQYuDSmoazoTA9KD9NytORlrSk2kxi jo6
VI OtKg1yOFNXypQpiJUCGK4aU5z2lKVHpSjR6r1KE/bkFWhbtWoRLUnBGow1UGUNaAIXelC00pR
tKrUqSvdaUdr8NWips8WQ/UpV 0q1p8mNaZLbWhNn7oBRQSWpYeNa1hP2tGR4lWrbeCrZO35z7Ye
VKCXLasQMpDDs162qjC9aGTtSVfJZvWuB ApRgNZzLD taVpnaog0CoIlrb0tojF6Wx3WsxA/vSj
d1WVbFRF3OIKt7jDNa5yl8vc5jp3ucmFrgACAQA7
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:48:11 -0500*
I assume it‘s a national standard, but here in LFQA the education standard 
is Grade 9 english, french and math.  Although I am skeptical about the 
french requirement elsewhere in Canada.
Matt S
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:50:53 -0500*
Here a little correction to my last post.  I just happened to see on the DND 
page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in Canada.
Matt S
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Wm. Durrant" <lgunnerl@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:12:18 -0500*
Matt,
Grade 9 French is a requirement for all secondary school diplomas in 
Canada.  After grade 9, however, it is an elective.  The requirement for 
application to the CF is 15 credits  grade 10 1/2
-bill  out of the closet Lurker 
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mathew Snoddon
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:48 PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
  I assume it‘s a national standard, but here in LFQA the education 
standard
  is Grade 9 english, french and math.  Although I am skeptical about 
the
  french requirement elsewhere in Canada.
  Matt S

_________________________________________________________________________
  Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
  --------------------------------------------------------
  NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
  to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
  remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
  message body.
Matt,
Grade 9 French is a 
requirementfor all
secondary school diplomas in Canada. After grade 9, however, 
itis an
elective. The requirement for application to the CF is 15 
credits
grade 10 1/2
-bill outof the closet
Lurker
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Mathew
  Snoddon 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 
7:48
  PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting 
Standards
  I assume it‘s a national standard, but here in LFQA the 
  education standard is Grade 9 english, french and math. 
Although I
  am skeptical about the french requirement elsewhere in 
Canada.Matt

S____________________________________________________________________
_____Get
  Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.------ 
--------------------------------------------------NOTE:
  To remove yourself from this list, send a messageto majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the 
account
  you wish toremove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in 
themessage
  body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Wm. Durrant" <lgunnerl@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:21:21 -0500*
Me too.   Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?
-bill
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mathew Snoddon
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50 PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
  Here a little correction to my last post.  I just happened to see on 
the DND
  page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in 
Canada.
  Matt S

_________________________________________________________________________
  Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
  --------------------------------------------------------
  NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
  to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
  remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
  message body.
Me too. Didn‘t know that 
about
Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?
-bill
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Mathew
  Snoddon 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 
7:50
  PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting 
Standards,
  correction
  Here a little correction to my last post. I just 
happened
  to see on the DND page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10
  everywhere else in Canada.Matt

S____________________________________________________________________
_____Get
  Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.------ 
--------------------------------------------------NOTE:
  To remove yourself from this list, send a messageto majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the 
account
  you wish toremove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in 
themessage
  body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:13:04 -0500*
--------------1DE8036573E2122725D0905C
Back from Ottawa.
Here in Qubec we are a different system that was implemented in the
60‘s
we have 5 years of High School  grade 7 to 12 
Then if you continue you hace CEGEP  uselesss place  where you spend 2
or three years depending on program
then if you continue you have university for 3 years.
"Wm. Durrant" wrote:
> Me too.   Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why? -bill
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Mathew Snoddon
>      To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>      Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50 PM
>      Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
>       Here a little correction to my last post.  I just happened
>      to see on the DND
>      page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere
>      else in Canada.
>
>      Matt S
>      ______
>      __________________________________________________________________
>
>      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>       http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>      NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>      to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>      remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>      message body.
>
--------------1DE8036573E2122725D0905C
Back from Ottawa.
Here in Queacutebec we are a different system that was implemented
in the 60‘s
we have 5 years of High School  grade 7 to 12 
Then if you continue you hace CEGEP  uselesss place  where you spend
2 or three years depending on program
then if you continue you have university for 3 years.
"Wm. Durrant" wrote:
Me
too. Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?-bill
----- Original Message -----
From:
Mathew
Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50
PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards,
correction
Here a little correction to my last post. I just happened to
see on the DND
page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in
Canada.
Matt S
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from
the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
--------------1DE8036573E2122725D0905C--
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Jay Digital" <todesengel@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:16:10 -0500*
I think it‘s because of the high school system in Quebec. It tends to be 
a little more advanced as high school is only grades 9-11 and then 
there‘s an additional 2 year sort of prep for university. I guess since 
they don‘t have a grade 12 then all the years are bumped up somewhat.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Wm. Durrant
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:21 PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
  Me too.   Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?
  -bill
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Mathew Snoddon
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50 PM
    Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
    Here a little correction to my last post.  I just happened to see on 
the DND
    page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in 
Canada.
    Matt S

_________________________________________________________________________
    Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
    --------------------------------------------------------
    NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
    to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
    remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
    message body.
I think it‘s because 
of the high
school system in Quebec. It tends to be a little more advanced as high 
school is
only grades 9-11 and then there‘s an additional 2 year sort of prep for
university. I guess since they don‘t have a grade 12 then all the years 
are
bumped up somewhat.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Wm. 
Durrant

  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 
8:21
  PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting 
Standards,
  correction

  Me too. Didn‘t know that 
about
  Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?

  -bill

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From:
    Mathew
    Snoddon 
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 
2001 7:50
    PM
    Subject: Re: Recruiting 
Standards,
    correction
    Here a little correction to my last post. I 
just
    happened to see on the DND page that it is grade 9 for Quebec 
and grade
    10 everywhere else in Canada.Matt

S____________________________________________________________________
_____Get
    Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.------ 
--------------------------------------------------NOTE:
    To remove yourself from this list, send a messageto majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from 
the account
    you wish toremove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in
    themessage body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:38:22 EST*
SomeoneI think Bill offered that troops under 18 yrs. can not move into an 
operational theatre, or something along those lines.
    So, ifI know it won‘t happen, but just for arguement‘s sake a 17yr old 
kid‘s unit was sent overseas for either aiding some civil power or actually 
warfighting, the soldier mentioned would ‘sit on ***  and rotate?‘
    So why even allow ‘kids‘ under that age in if they can‘t actually serve 
during a military crisis?
    Maybe I misunderstood.
    Comments?
            -Matt
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:54:35 -0700*
Well, again I am guilty of trying to talk from personal, outdated
experience. The 16 year old of today is not the same as the 16 year old of
1959. I can‘t recall what year it was first raised to 17, but I noticed a
general increase in the quality of PRes soldiers and how difficult it
immediatly became to recruit them but other variables may have influenced
my view.
However, there must be a difference in a platoon of some 16 year old‘s and
some older recruits/trained soldiers and a platoon of just 16 year olds. The
presence of large number of older solders must have both a good and a bad
effect on the qualities exhibited by the younger ones. Around 1960, to show
you how wrong it was, a former cadet with Cadet Leader Instructor I think
completion could be made an automatic Corporal now section commander upon
entry. That was sure wrong, even though many good NCOs entered that way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Campbell 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
> I can verify that. I spent last summer as a Basic Recruit Training Section
> Commander in Sunny Meaford. In my Section I had around five or six
Recruits
> who were 16. Personally I found very little difference between them and
> Recruits who were older. It had more to do with their maturity which I
have
> found to be independent of age.
>
> Prior to last summer I know this surprised my Recruiting NCO at my Unit so
> much that he had to get confirmation from higher that we were allowed to
> recruit 16 year olds.
>
> ----------
> Tom Campbell
> from Work
>
> TomCampbell@canada.com
> ICQ - i can‘t remember right now
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:50:53 -0500*
--------------1EEB22BF47F5FF2E5A9468D8
EWWWWWWW
If you haVe, sorry for the haCe
jf
Jean-Francois Menicucci wrote:
> Back from Ottawa.
>
> Here in Qubec we are a different system that was implemented in the
> 60‘s
>
> we have 5 years of High School  grade 7 to 12 
> Then if you continue you hace CEGEP  uselesss place  where you spend
> 2 or three years depending on program
> then if you continue you have university for 3 years.
>
>
>
> "Wm. Durrant" wrote:
>
>> Me too.   Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why? -bill
>>
>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>      From:Mathew Snoddon
>>      To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>>      Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50 PM
>>      Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards, correction
>>       Here a little correction to my last post.  I just
>>      happened to see on the DND
>>      page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere
>>      else in Canada.
>>
>>      Matt S
>>      ______
>>      __________________________________________________________________
>>
>>      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>>       http://www.hotmail.com. 
>>
>>      --------------------------------------------------------
>>      NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>      to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>>      remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>>      message body.
>>
--------------1EEB22BF47F5FF2E5A9468D8
EWWWWWWW
If you haVe, sorry for the haCe
jf
Jean-Francois Menicucci wrote:
Back from Ottawa.
Here in Queacutebec we are a different system that was implemented
in the 60‘s
we have 5 years of High School  grade 7 to 12 
Then if you continue you hace CEGEP  uselesss place  where you spend
2 or three years depending on program
then if you continue you have university for 3 years.
"Wm. Durrant" wrote:
Me
too. Didn‘t know that about Quebec,,,,,,,wondering why?
-bill
----- Original Message -----
From:Mathew
Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:50
PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards,
correction
Here a little correction to my last post. I just happened to
see on the DND
page that it is grade 9 for Quebec and grade 10 everywhere else in
Canada.
Matt S
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from
the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
--------------1EEB22BF47F5FF2E5A9468D8--
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:59:58 -0700*
First, I wish you would drop this Molson commercial banner. Trite.
Second. 16 year olds were never permitted to be "called up" ie., 
liable/able to be posted overseas in peace or in war.

First, I wish you would drop this Molson commercial banner. 
Trite.
Second. 16 year olds were never permitted to be "called up" ie.,
liable/able to be posted overseas in peace or in war.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:04:33 -0700*
Not true in Alburda. Not true in Saskawan.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Wm. Durrant
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 6:12 PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
  Matt,

  Grade 9 French is a requirement for all secondary school diplomas in 
Canada.  After grade 9, however, it is an elective.  The requirement for 
application to the CF is 15 credits  grade 10 1/2

  -bill  out of the closet Lurker 
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Not true in Alburda. Not true in
Saskawan.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Wm. 
Durrant

  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 
6:12
  PM
  Subject: Re: Recruiting 
Standards

  Matt,

  Grade 9 French is a 
requirementfor all
  secondary school diplomas in Canada. After grade 9, however, 
itis
  an elective. The requirement for application to the CF is 15
  credits grade 10 1/2

  -bill outof the closet
  Lurker
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:32:53 -0700*
Because if they join at 17 and then start training it won‘t be long after
completion before they are 18.
They can still aid civilian power at home in the meantime if 17, I think.
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
> SomeoneI think Bill offered that troops under 18 yrs. can not move into
an
> operational theatre, or something along those lines.
>     So, ifI know it won‘t happen, but just for arguement‘s sake a 17yr
old
> kid‘s unit was sent overseas for either aiding some civil power or
actually
> warfighting, the soldier mentioned would ‘sit on ***  and rotate?‘
>     So why even allow ‘kids‘ under that age in if they can‘t actually
serve
> during a military crisis?
>     Maybe I misunderstood.
>     Comments?
>             -Matt
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *CoastDanny@aol.com* on *Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:42:49 EST*
Ian, in "Saskawan grade 7 IS high school.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:40:21 -0500*
Tempus Edax Rerum  Time Destroys All Things
I can understand the CF‘s need to offer recruiting at age 16, versus 17.  I
joined at 16 myself.
Of course, other than in a pre Recruit Platoon, your were ever, ever, in a
platoon of 16 year olds, in fact once you were in a trained platoon, the 17
year old was the minority...because you could not get through the training
in a year...
And, talking with several CF PRes friends and associates, they almost need
that extra year to have a chance at the 16 year old Recruit being able to
get the time to take the training, what with National/"Area" courses that
used to be taught at "District"/Unit level...witness the litany from the
younger guys and girls that want to join, but must go through the paper
cycle...
As for a 16 year old in 1959, 1970, or 2001, physiologically they are quite
the same...maybe a little bigger, and perhaps or perhaps not a little
fatter educated better...wordly?  depends on your view, and neither you nor
I are 16, 18, 20 or even 30...damnit...
Is there a history of using 16 year olds on foreign combat missions?  Of
course.
Is this our preference?  Likely not.
If we had to?  Probably...
Do we have to address retention in both the PRes and the PF...yes, I think
so...sadly, if the  Cadet movement has to pay some cost for this...well,
dumb as it sounds, the CF does not deny "dual citizenship" on the issue...
How do you get 20-25 year olds to jump through the hoops to be Sgts, what
with the courses you must take?  And handling the civilian jobs, versus
military lack of employment?  vice taking courses only when offered?
I don‘t see easy or obvious answers that create a "win-win" for the Cadets
and Reserves...though they must b there.
Nor do I see where declining a 16 year olds application for
employment..consider Matt Bondy on this Board...gains either the P Res, the
PF, or the Cadet Corps any great gain...If the individual has what it
takes...why not take them?
Philisophical, I know...but otherwise, absolute rules, with no consideration
are "Philistine"....
Quite willing to discuss...
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
> Well, again I am guilty of trying to talk from personal, outdated
> experience. The 16 year old of today is not the same as the 16 year old of
> 1959. I can‘t recall what year it was first raised to 17, but I noticed a
> general increase in the quality of PRes soldiers and how difficult it
> immediatly became to recruit them but other variables may have influenced
> my view.
> However, there must be a difference in a platoon of some 16 year old‘s and
> some older recruits/trained soldiers and a platoon of just 16 year olds.
The
> presence of large number of older solders must have both a good and a bad
> effect on the qualities exhibited by the younger ones. Around 1960, to
show
> you how wrong it was, a former cadet with Cadet Leader Instructor I
think
> completion could be made an automatic Corporal now section commander
upon
> entry. That was sure wrong, even though many good NCOs entered that way.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Campbell 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
>
>
> > I can verify that. I spent last summer as a Basic Recruit Training
Section
> > Commander in Sunny Meaford. In my Section I had around five or six
> Recruits
> > who were 16. Personally I found very little difference between them and
> > Recruits who were older. It had more to do with their maturity which I
> have
> > found to be independent of age.
> >
> > Prior to last summer I know this surprised my Recruiting NCO at my Unit
so
> > much that he had to get confirmation from higher that we were allowed to
> > recruit 16 year olds.
> >
> > ----------
> > Tom Campbell
> > from Work
> >
> > TomCampbell@canada.com
> > ICQ - i can‘t remember right now
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Pte Sean" <private_sean@budweiser.com>* on *28 Feb 2001 18:52:08 -0000*
I think the main isssue that has to be looked at is can a 16 year old do the job that is required? Some of them probably can. So why keep them out if they can do the job?
Likewise, some of them arent prepared, either physically or mentally, to do it. Obviously, you have to devise a way for those who can, to get in, while those who cant, dont. Is a system like that not already in place? Personally, I would have no objection to a bunch of 16 year olds being in my regiment. if they are capable of doing what‘s asked of them, great, let them in, the more the merrier. On the other hand, if the recruiting standards start to go down to accomodate the kids, well I think most of us would have a problem with that. But hey, if they can do the job, I really dont think age is a factor.
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:40:21 -0500 Gow  wrote:
>Tempus Edax Rerum  Time Destroys All Things
>
>I can understand the CF‘s need to offer recruiting at age 16, versus 17.  I
>joined at 16 myself.
>
>Of course, other than in a pre Recruit Platoon, your were ever, ever, in a
>platoon of 16 year olds, in fact once you were in a trained platoon, the 17
>year old was the minority...because you could not get through the training
>in a year...
>
>And, talking with several CF PRes friends and associates, they almost need
>that extra year to have a chance at the 16 year old Recruit being able to
>get the time to take the training, what with National/"Area" courses that
>used to be taught at "District"/Unit level...witness the litany from the
>younger guys and girls that want to join, but must go through the paper
>cycle...
>
>As for a 16 year old in 1959, 1970, or 2001, physiologically they are quite
>the same...maybe a little bigger, and perhaps or perhaps not a little
>fatter educated better...wordly?  depends on your view, and neither you nor
>I are 16, 18, 20 or even 30...damnit...
>
>Is there a history of using 16 year olds on foreign combat missions?  Of
>course.
>
>Is this our preference?  Likely not.
>
>If we had to?  Probably...
>
>Do we have to address retention in both the PRes and the PF...yes, I think
>so...sadly, if the  Cadet movement has to pay some cost for this...well,
>dumb as it sounds, the CF does not deny "dual citizenship" on the issue...
>
>How do you get 20-25 year olds to jump through the hoops to be Sgts, what
>with the courses you must take?  And handling the civilian jobs, versus
>military lack of employment?  vice taking courses only when offered?
>
>I don‘t see easy or obvious answers that create a "win-win" for the Cadets
>and Reserves...though they must b there.
>
>Nor do I see where declining a 16 year olds application for
>employment..consider Matt Bondy on this Board...gains either the P Res, the
>PF, or the Cadet Corps any great gain...If the individual has what it
>takes...why not take them?
>
>Philisophical, I know...but otherwise, absolute rules, with no consideration
>are "Philistine"....
>
>Quite willing to discuss...
>
>John
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE Budweiser E-mail account at  http://budweiser.com 
Budweiser E-Mail must be used responsibly and only is for consumers 21 years of age and older!


Disclaimer: Neither Anheuser-Busch, Inc. the makers of BUDWEISER beer nor the operator of this E-Mail service or their respective affiliates have seen, endorsed or approved any of the content in this e-mail and expressly disclaim all liability for the content in whole and in part.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:21:42 -0700*
Being a local Zone Chairman for the Army Cadet League I have mixed emotions
about the 16 year old question.
I suppose it‘s no longer a question but now DND regulations, so those of us
at the lower level in the Cadet Movement should just get over it and do the
best we can with what we have left. Too bad, so sad.  And I say "have left"
because, certainly, cadet corps lose senior cadets to the PRes just when
they are able to pay the Movement back for their training. Ask a 16 or 17
year old who is in both the cadets and in the Pres, "would you rather attend
a cadet weekend exercise for the leadership practice, good of your corps, or
attend a PRes unit trg. weekend for the good of your regiment and get paid
for it?" Not always, but most often the answer is that money talks. I also
think that many former cadets become disallusioned with the PRes faster than
those straight off the street, but I have no stats to back that up.
When I was referring to the changes in 16 year olds from the days of yore to
now I was not referring to physical strength I leave that to the medical
field and others to determine if there really is any difference - there were
couch potatoes in my day too. The world of the "teen" has changed over the
years, far more complex, introverted and faster paced for sure. What effect
that has had on the ability to "soldier" and what changes there really have
been in soldiering, it likely has had some, I am not in a position to
provide other than anecdotal evidence and I really don‘t think any of us are
expert enough and had continuous experience enough to really say how
"things" have changed in that regard over the years.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gow 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
> Tempus Edax Rerum  Time Destroys All Things .... snip.....
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Adam Wainwright" <ajmw@home.com>* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:33:22 -0800*
Ian your points are entirely true, I‘m an WO1CWO in air cadets and I
joined because the army cadets didn‘t want any more recruits.  Air is looked
better than navy, but from a perspective of a senior cadet.  Now I am
spending 3 nights a week training cadets in subject that don‘t interest me.
Many of my friends in army cadets are in the same boat.  Pres certainly a
new different environment and you are allowed to do many things that cadets
aren‘t.  You are afforded new responsibilities cadets are kids and they are
treated as such.
Leading to a question I have, could anyone give me some info about the
different regiments in and around Vancouver and there phase I‘ve heard that
they are either offensive or defensive  I‘m not to sure about what to do
from now if anyone could offer some help or advice I‘d being pleased to
listen, if anyone needs cadet expertise then rocket a question my way.
Tri-annual contributor
LURKER!
-Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca [mailtowner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca]On
Behalf Of Ian Edwards
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:22 PM
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
Being a local Zone Chairman for the Army Cadet League I have mixed emotions
about the 16 year old question.
I suppose it‘s no longer a question but now DND regulations, so those of us
at the lower level in the Cadet Movement should just get over it and do the
best we can with what we have left. Too bad, so sad.  And I say "have left"
because, certainly, cadet corps lose senior cadets to the PRes just when
they are able to pay the Movement back for their training. Ask a 16 or 17
year old who is in both the cadets and in the Pres, "would you rather attend
a cadet weekend exercise for the leadership practice, good of your corps, or
attend a PRes unit trg. weekend for the good of your regiment and get paid
for it?" Not always, but most often the answer is that money talks. I also
think that many former cadets become disallusioned with the PRes faster than
those straight off the street, but I have no stats to back that up.
When I was referring to the changes in 16 year olds from the days of yore to
now I was not referring to physical strength I leave that to the medical
field and others to determine if there really is any difference - there were
couch potatoes in my day too. The world of the "teen" has changed over the
years, far more complex, introverted and faster paced for sure. What effect
that has had on the ability to "soldier" and what changes there really have
been in soldiering, it likely has had some, I am not in a position to
provide other than anecdotal evidence and I really don‘t think any of us are
expert enough and had continuous experience enough to really say how
"things" have changed in that regard over the years.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gow 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards
> Tempus Edax Rerum  Time Destroys All Things .... snip.....
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:14:55 EST*
Adam,
        Hey bud. I think if the Cadet Organisation was run more strictly, and 
Officers weren‘t worried so much about yelling parents and acting on those 
fearsNot that those fears aren‘t unfounded! I‘ve heard my share of angry 
moms! the Movement would be a great place to be, as opposed to being a good 
place to be. There‘s room for improvement, or so think I.
    Personally, I think that if the Cadet Movement in general, and more 
specifically my former corps was run more strictly, with no place for 
delinquents, I‘d probably rather continue to be a Snr NCO in Cadets than join 
the militia, simply because I‘d like to hone my leadership skills. I was good 
at my job, but not as good as I could‘ve been. Moreover, I disagreed with my 
seniors‘ decisions so strongly, I felt after some attemps to negotiate, that 
I‘d better serve in the militia rather than just be a thorn in the side of 
the Corps ‘Staff‘ just because ‘Bondy wants to be a hardass‘.or so they 
said.
    Just wanted to let you know what a lad in the discussed position thought. 
Sorry for intrusion!
    Money, Ian, I don‘t think holds quite as much for teens as many think. 
Really, if you give it a good go, you CAN find a job. And for sure one that‘s 
easier than being a reservist.
    But, what do I know?.?.
        Adam, Pte Sean is a reservist in BC and is currently serving with the 
Westminsters. He‘s probably be able to give you a hand with the units.
            My   $0.02, nothing more.
                            -Matt
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Adam Wainwright" <ajmw@home.com>* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:38:10 -0800*
Matt,
I seem to have run into a similar problem as you have.  This is what has
sparked my interest the militia.  Yes, the Canadian Cadet Movement is a
great program.  But its really gone down hill discipline wise from when I
started 6 years ago.  I also have huge problems with my ‘staff‘ they are
looking for a kind gentle RSM rather then one who the mention of his name
makes the hair on the back of ones neck stand up.  I‘m trying to
diplomatic...its tough I‘m not to practiced at the art some of the issues
I‘ve raised on the list.  No intrusion at all love to hear your opinion.  I
wouldn‘t join the reserves for money, anyone who join the forces looking for
money is a fool even I, an air cadet knows that.
-Adam
Units in Vancouver anyone???
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca [mailtowner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca]On
Behalf Of Juno847627709@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:15 PM
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
Adam,
        Hey bud. I think if the Cadet Organisation was run more strictly,
and
Officers weren‘t worried so much about yelling parents and acting on those
fearsNot that those fears aren‘t unfounded! I‘ve heard my share of angry
moms! the Movement would be a great place to be, as opposed to being a good
place to be. There‘s room for improvement, or so think I.
    Personally, I think that if the Cadet Movement in general, and more
specifically my former corps was run more strictly, with no place for
delinquents, I‘d probably rather continue to be a Snr NCO in Cadets than
join
the militia, simply because I‘d like to hone my leadership skills. I was
good
at my job, but not as good as I could‘ve been. Moreover, I disagreed with my
seniors‘ decisions so strongly, I felt after some attemps to negotiate, that
I‘d better serve in the militia rather than just be a thorn in the side of
the Corps ‘Staff‘ just because ‘Bondy wants to be a hardass‘.or so they
said.
    Just wanted to let you know what a lad in the discussed position
thought.
Sorry for intrusion!
    Money, Ian, I don‘t think holds quite as much for teens as many think.
Really, if you give it a good go, you CAN find a job. And for sure one
that‘s
easier than being a reservist.
    But, what do I know?.?.
        Adam, Pte Sean is a reservist in BC and is currently serving with
the
Westminsters. He‘s probably be able to give you a hand with the units.
            My   $0.02, nothing more.
                            -Matt
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:40:34 -0700*
I‘m glad you have the maturity to realize the truth. I also hope you have
the maturity realize that the aim of cadets is to foster in youth the
attributes of good citizenship, leadership, physical fitness as well as an
interest in the CF.  To some extent, the subjects being taught are just a
means to achieve that aim. To many teens the term good citizehsip is a
rather nebulous concept. I certainly don‘t think that Army Cadets is any
better or worse than the Air or Sea cadets, and that all corps and squadrons
have years of ups and downs in relative efficiency ditto for PRes units. I
suggest that you approach your CIC Training Officer and see if you can be
employed more to understudying the role of a TrgO and/or being utilized to
help the cadet MCpls in your cadet squadron become more proficient in their
instructional and leadership tasks, as that is the major role of an RSM or
the equivalent in the other services.
I mentioned that former cadets tend to drop out quite quickly in the PRes
just my prediction, I‘ve not seen any stats. They soon realize that they
are not going to get to play all the time with all the toys they expected,
while those without cadet experience are challenged longer with the more
elementary levels of training. Now, before I get jumped on, I hasten to add
that with maturity soldiers realize that mundane tasks, paper pushing, and
the other less glamorous tasks need to be done for the good of the whole and
I don‘t really mean to be perjoritive when I say ‘toys‘ as I am referring to
expensive weapons and limited ammunition, weapons systems, etc. etc.
training gear. And I‘m sure that "hurry up and wait" is still the slogan of
all armies of today as it was in the time of Caesar a PPCLI Major in the
time of Bob Childs.
Oh, and while I am on the subject. Today, while volunteering at the LEdmnR
Museum, I took a phone call from a women who asked where and when her son
could go "to join cadets." I asked her how old was her son. "Seventeen 17"
was her answer. My response was to direct her towards the PRes, but that is
not the point. What does her question tell members of this bulletin
board????
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Wainwright 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:33 PM
Subject: RE: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
> Ian your points are entirely true, I‘m an WO1CWO in air cadets and I
> joined because the army cadets didn‘t want any more recruits.  Air is
looked
> better than navy, but from a perspective of a senior cadet.  Now I am
> spending 3 nights a week training cadets in subject that don‘t interest
me.
> Many of my friends in army cadets are in the same boat.  Pres certainly a
> new different environment and you are allowed to do many things that
cadets
> aren‘t.  You are afforded new responsibilities cadets are kids and they
are
> treated as such.
> Leading to a question I have, could anyone give me some info about the
> different regiments in and around Vancouver and there phase I‘ve heard
that
> they are either offensive or defensive  I‘m not to sure about what to do
> from now if anyone could offer some help or advice I‘d being pleased to
> listen, if anyone needs cadet expertise then rocket a question my way.
>
> Tri-annual contributor
> LURKER!
> -Adam
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:46:31 -0500*
British Columbia Regiment...recce unit
The Seaforth Highlanders...infantry
Stands to reason the Service Corps will be there, too.
Or you could just phone CFRC and ask...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Wainwright" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:38 PM
Subject: RE: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
> Matt,
> I seem to have run into a similar problem as you have.  This is what has
> sparked my interest the militia.  Yes, the Canadian Cadet Movement is a
> great program.  But its really gone down hill discipline wise from when
I
> started 6 years ago.  I also have huge problems with my ‘staff‘ they are
> looking for a kind gentle RSM rather then one who the mention of his name
> makes the hair on the back of ones neck stand up.  I‘m trying to
> diplomatic...its tough I‘m not to practiced at the art some of the issues
> I‘ve raised on the list.  No intrusion at all love to hear your opinion.
I
> wouldn‘t join the reserves for money, anyone who join the forces looking
for
> money is a fool even I, an air cadet knows that.
>
> -Adam
>
> Units in Vancouver anyone???
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca [mailtowner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca]On
> Behalf Of Juno847627709@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:15 PM
> To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
>
>
> Adam,
>         Hey bud. I think if the Cadet Organisation was run more strictly,
> and
> Officers weren‘t worried so much about yelling parents and acting on those
> fearsNot that those fears aren‘t unfounded! I‘ve heard my share of angry
> moms! the Movement would be a great place to be, as opposed to being a
good
> place to be. There‘s room for improvement, or so think I.
>     Personally, I think that if the Cadet Movement in general, and more
> specifically my former corps was run more strictly, with no place for
> delinquents, I‘d probably rather continue to be a Snr NCO in Cadets than
> join
> the militia, simply because I‘d like to hone my leadership skills. I was
> good
> at my job, but not as good as I could‘ve been. Moreover, I disagreed with
my
> seniors‘ decisions so strongly, I felt after some attemps to negotiate,
that
> I‘d better serve in the militia rather than just be a thorn in the side of
> the Corps ‘Staff‘ just because ‘Bondy wants to be a hardass‘.or so they
> said.
>     Just wanted to let you know what a lad in the discussed position
> thought.
> Sorry for intrusion!
>     Money, Ian, I don‘t think holds quite as much for teens as many think.
> Really, if you give it a good go, you CAN find a job. And for sure one
> that‘s
> easier than being a reservist.
>     But, what do I know?.?.
>         Adam, Pte Sean is a reservist in BC and is currently serving with
> the
> Westminsters. He‘s probably be able to give you a hand with the units.
>             My   $0.02, nothing more.
>                             -Matt
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Pte Sean" <private_sean@budweiser.com>* on *1 Mar 2001 02:43:55 -0000*
I‘m not sure what exactly you mean by "phase", Adam, but I am going to go ahead and assume that you are asking what we are specifically doing this year. If I have misinterpreted, I appologize.
This year, our brigade has been doing FIBUA, which has been a ton of fun. My regimentWesties did an exercise on Vancouver Island, then in an abandoned building at the woodlands mental institute in New Westminster, and most recently at Regensburg at Fort Lewis in washington state. 
As for next year, I believe we are doing patrolling.
 On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:33:22 -0800 Adam Wainwright  wrote:
>Ian your points are entirely true, I‘m an WO1CWO in air cadets and I
>joined because the army cadets didn‘t want any more recruits.  Air is looked
>better than navy, but from a perspective of a senior cadet.  Now I am
>spending 3 nights a week training cadets in subject that don‘t interest me.
>Many of my friends in army cadets are in the same boat.  Pres certainly a
>new different environment and you are allowed to do many things that cadets
>aren‘t.  You are afforded new responsibilities cadets are kids and they are
>treated as such.
>Leading to a question I have, could anyone give me some info about the
>different regiments in and around Vancouver and there phase I‘ve heard that
>they are either offensive or defensive  I‘m not to sure about what to do
>from now if anyone could offer some help or advice I‘d being pleased to
>listen, if anyone needs cadet expertise then rocket a question my way.
>
>Tri-annual contributor
>LURKER!
>-Adam
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE Budweiser E-mail account at  http://budweiser.com 
Budweiser E-Mail must be used responsibly and only is for consumers 21 years of age and older!


Disclaimer: Neither Anheuser-Busch, Inc. the makers of BUDWEISER beer nor the operator of this E-Mail service or their respective affiliates have seen, endorsed or approved any of the content in this e-mail and expressly disclaim all liability for the content in whole and in part.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:50:44 -0700*
For many it does, according to many CIC officers I‘ve talked to over the
years. But money is not the motivator for all. In my own cadet corps, when I
was a CO getting to be quite some years ago some of the best senior cadets
turned down money for the challenge/enrichment of continuing in the Cadet
Movement. God knows it‘s far from perfect and I‘ve been a big complainer
about its imperfections.
There was an old expression, that if you have a ‘barrack room lawyer‘ make
him a Lance Cpl and give him some responsibility and see his attitude
change. That‘s just happend to me re the Cadet Movement only in the past
week.
Now I have a duty to work for local improvement. But I can still be the
grumpy old man on Army matters on this net, so watch yourself, John and
others with your typos or the Abbreviation Nazi will get you again.
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
Snip...
>     Money, Ian, I don‘t think holds quite as much for teens as many think.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:02:38 -0700*
Matt, do you realize that you‘re starting to think like an old sweat
"discipline has gone downhill...." More likely that just your perspective
has changed Pte. to CWO or that your "horizon" is limited to Vancouver or
snapshots of certain camps in Western Canada and elsewhere that you have
been that you are generalizing about.
It won‘t be many years from now before you will be telling your kids about
walking to school 10 miles uphill both ways and the rest of that cliche.
Trust me.
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Wainwright 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
> Matt,
> I seem to have run into a similar problem as you have.  This is what has
> sparked my interest the militia.  Yes, the Canadian Cadet Movement is a
> great program.  But its really gone down hill discipline wise from when
I
> started 6 years ago.  I also have huge problems with my ‘staff‘ they are
> looking for a kind gentle RSM rather then one who the mention of his name
> makes the hair on the back of ones neck stand up.  I‘m trying to
> diplomatic...its tough I‘m not to practiced at the art some of the issues
> I‘ve raised on the list.  No intrusion at all love to hear your opinion.
I
> wouldn‘t join the reserves for money, anyone who join the forces looking
for
> money is a fool even I, an air cadet knows that.
>
> -Adam
>
> Units in Vancouver anyone???
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca [mailtowner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca]On
> Behalf Of Juno847627709@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:15 PM
> To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
>
>
> Adam,
>         Hey bud. I think if the Cadet Organisation was run more strictly,
> and
> Officers weren‘t worried so much about yelling parents and acting on those
> fearsNot that those fears aren‘t unfounded! I‘ve heard my share of angry
> moms! the Movement would be a great place to be, as opposed to being a
good
> place to be. There‘s room for improvement, or so think I.
>     Personally, I think that if the Cadet Movement in general, and more
> specifically my former corps was run more strictly, with no place for
> delinquents, I‘d probably rather continue to be a Snr NCO in Cadets than
> join
> the militia, simply because I‘d like to hone my leadership skills. I was
> good
> at my job, but not as good as I could‘ve been. Moreover, I disagreed with
my
> seniors‘ decisions so strongly, I felt after some attemps to negotiate,
that
> I‘d better serve in the militia rather than just be a thorn in the side of
> the Corps ‘Staff‘ just because ‘Bondy wants to be a hardass‘.or so they
> said.
>     Just wanted to let you know what a lad in the discussed position
> thought.
> Sorry for intrusion!
>     Money, Ian, I don‘t think holds quite as much for teens as many think.
> Really, if you give it a good go, you CAN find a job. And for sure one
> that‘s
> easier than being a reservist.
>     But, what do I know?.?.
>         Adam, Pte Sean is a reservist in BC and is currently serving with
> the
> Westminsters. He‘s probably be able to give you a hand with the units.
>             My   $0.02, nothing more.
>                             -Matt
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Pte Sean" <private_sean@budweiser.com>* on *1 Mar 2001 03:06:38 -0000*
12 Service BattalionService, duh in richmond
British Columbia RegimentArmored Recce right downtown by Stadium Station
Royal Westminster Regimentinfantry in New West by city hall, b company is in aldergrove
Seaforth Highlanders of Canadainfantry near kitsilano, by the molson brewery
15 feild artilleryartillery in aldergrove
and i believe there is an engineer regiment in north van, 6th feild? i dont know.
All good regiments.. where exactly are you located, Adam?
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:46:31 -0500 Gow  wrote:
>British Columbia Regiment...recce unit
>The Seaforth Highlanders...infantry
>Stands to reason the Service Corps will be there, too.
>
>Or you could just phone CFRC and ask...
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Adam Wainwright" 
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:38 PM
>Subject: RE: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
>
>
>> Matt,
>> I seem to have run into a similar problem as you have.  This is what has
>> sparked my interest the militia.  Yes, the Canadian Cadet Movement is a
>> great program.  But its really gone down hill discipline wise from when
>I
>> started 6 years ago.  I also have huge problems with my ‘staff‘ they are
>> looking for a kind gentle RSM rather then one who the mention of his name
>> makes the hair on the back of ones neck stand up.  I‘m trying to
>> diplomatic...its tough I‘m not to practiced at the art some of the issues
>> I‘ve raised on the list.  No intrusion at all love to hear your opinion.
>I
>> wouldn‘t join the reserves for money, anyone who join the forces looking
>for
>> money is a fool even I, an air cadet knows that.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>> Units in Vancouver anyone???
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca [mailtowner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca]On
>> Behalf Of Juno847627709@aol.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:15 PM
>> To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>> Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
>>
>>
>> Adam,
>>         Hey bud. I think if the Cadet Organisation was run more strictly,
>> and
>> Officers weren‘t worried so much about yelling parents and acting on those
>> fearsNot that those fears aren‘t unfounded! I‘ve heard my share of angry
>> moms! the Movement would be a great place to be, as opposed to being a
>good
>> place to be. There‘s room for improvement, or so think I.
>>     Personally, I think that if the Cadet Movement in general, and more
>> specifically my former corps was run more strictly, with no place for
>> delinquents, I‘d probably rather continue to be a Snr NCO in Cadets than
>> join
>> the militia, simply because I‘d like to hone my leadership skills. I was
>> good
>> at my job, but not as good as I could‘ve been. Moreover, I disagreed with
>my
>> seniors‘ decisions so strongly, I felt after some attemps to negotiate,
>that
>> I‘d better serve in the militia rather than just be a thorn in the side of
>> the Corps ‘Staff‘ just because ‘Bondy wants to be a hardass‘.or so they
>> said.
>>     Just wanted to let you know what a lad in the discussed position
>> thought.
>> Sorry for intrusion!
>>     Money, Ian, I don‘t think holds quite as much for teens as many think.
>> Really, if you give it a good go, you CAN find a job. And for sure one
>> that‘s
>> easier than being a reservist.
>>     But, what do I know?.?.
>>         Adam, Pte Sean is a reservist in BC and is currently serving with
>> the
>> Westminsters. He‘s probably be able to give you a hand with the units.
>>             My   $0.02, nothing more.
>>                             -Matt
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>> message body.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>> message body.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE Budweiser E-mail account at  http://budweiser.com 
Budweiser E-Mail must be used responsibly and only is for consumers 21 years of age and older!


Disclaimer: Neither Anheuser-Busch, Inc. the makers of BUDWEISER beer nor the operator of this E-Mail service or their respective affiliates have seen, endorsed or approved any of the content in this e-mail and expressly disclaim all liability for the content in whole and in part.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"David Shih" <shihdc@hotmail.com>* on *Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:50:47 -0330*
Units in Vancouver:
12 SVC BN
12 Vancouver Medical Company
15 Field Artillery RCA
6 Field Engineer SQN
Did I miss any??
David
>From: "Gow" 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: 
>Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
>Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:46:31 -0500
>
>British Columbia Regiment...recce unit
>The Seaforth Highlanders...infantry
>Stands to reason the Service Corps will be there, too.
>
>Or you could just phone CFRC and ask...
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Adam Wainwright" 
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:38 PM
>Subject: RE: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
>
>
> > Matt,
> > I seem to have run into a similar problem as you have.  This is what has
> > sparked my interest the militia.  Yes, the Canadian Cadet Movement is a
> > great program.  But its really gone down hill discipline wise from 
>when
>I
> > started 6 years ago.  I also have huge problems with my ‘staff‘ they are
> > looking for a kind gentle RSM rather then one who the mention of his 
>name
> > makes the hair on the back of ones neck stand up.  I‘m trying to
> > diplomatic...its tough I‘m not to practiced at the art some of the 
>issues
> > I‘ve raised on the list.  No intrusion at all love to hear your 
>opinion.
>I
> > wouldn‘t join the reserves for money, anyone who join the forces looking
>for
> > money is a fool even I, an air cadet knows that.
> >
> > -Adam
> >
> > Units in Vancouver anyone???
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca [mailtowner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca]On
> > Behalf Of Juno847627709@aol.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:15 PM
> > To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > Subject: Re: Recruiting Standards / Vancouver
> >
> >
> > Adam,
> >         Hey bud. I think if the Cadet Organisation was run more 
>strictly,
> > and
> > Officers weren‘t worried so much about yelling parents and acting on 
>those
> > fearsNot that those fears aren‘t unfounded! I‘ve heard my share of 
>angry
> > moms! the Movement would be a great place to be, as opposed to being a
>good
> > place to be. There‘s room for improvement, or so think I.
> >     Personally, I think that if the Cadet Movement in general, and more
> > specifically my former corps was run more strictly, with no place for
> > delinquents, I‘d probably rather continue to be a Snr NCO in Cadets than
> > join
> > the militia, simply because I‘d like to hone my leadership skills. I was
> > good
> > at my job, but not as good as I could‘ve been. Moreover, I disagreed 
>with
>my
> > seniors‘ decisions so strongly, I felt after some attemps to negotiate,
>that
> > I‘d better serve in the militia rather than just be a thorn in the side 
>of
> > the Corps ‘Staff‘ just because ‘Bondy wants to be a hardass‘.or so they
> > said.
> >     Just wanted to let you know what a lad in the discussed position
> > thought.
> > Sorry for intrusion!
> >     Money, Ian, I don‘t think holds quite as much for teens as many 
>think.
> > Really, if you give it a good go, you CAN find a job. And for sure one
> > that‘s
> > easier than being a reservist.
> >     But, what do I know?.?.
> >         Adam, Pte Sean is a reservist in BC and is currently serving 
>with
> > the
> > Westminsters. He‘s probably be able to give you a hand with the units.
> >             My   $0.02, nothing more.
> >                             -Matt
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Justin Bauer" <bauer_a63@hotmail.com>* on *Thu, 01 Mar 2001 04:02:44 -0000*
there is the British Columbia Regimentdcoarmoured recce
Seaforth Highlanders-infantry
12 SVC BN-combat service support
Royal Westminister RegimentWesties-infantry
12 Med Coymedics
a the Signals regiment also in jerico
there are also some artie and engineer regiments but i cant recall the namesGet Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------

