# Any Old Timer Recruits out there?



## Jim_M58 (30 May 2007)

OK- first of all, in order to avoid being slapped around by the admins and others here, let me preface this with stating that I have spent a fair bit of time (I’m talking quite a few hours) on this site over the last year getting a ton of pertinent info re the military life, preparing for boot camp, and on and on. This is a hell of a resource, and I have a great deal of appreciation for the webmaster and other people who are responsible for keeping this site up.

I honestly mean the above. Now I’m pretty sure that I’m a bit of a unique case, so I’m going to ask a pointed question. My reason for the question is that I’m really apprehensive about my future. 

I turn 49 in July. That’s FORTY-NINE. A year ago, after becoming a Canadian citizen, my wife (mah little Maple Leaf!) suggested that I put my hard earned (30 years in the making) BA to something more useful than working in a call centre in Kingston, and consider the Canadian Forces as a career.

She put up with my ‘tut-tut’s. She tolerated my “are you crazy”? And she showed me a ton of stuff online about this organization that frankly took my breath away. 

Cypress.
Bosnia.
Uganda.

Are just a few of the places where an incredible group of people have worked. What an extraordinary organization. (And I’m being quite objective here, not too starry eyed).

I tried to convince her that:
1/ I’m too old. They won’t even look at me.
2/ I got baaad teeth.
3/ I came to Canada from the U- frikkin’ SA. NO WAY they’ll look at me. 

She pish tushed my tut tuts and told me to talk to a recruiter. 

I did.
And he told me to apply.

I did.
Then they told me to come in for tests.

I did.
Half of my group flunked the CFAT.

I passed. 

Half of us left flunked the Medical Exam.
I passed. (Had to go and get an special Old Fart Medical in addition, and passed that too.)

Out of the original group of 8, two of us got interviews. I was told at the conclusion that I was suitable and to WAIT.

I waited a year, called my recruiter and had to change my MO because Logistics Air Force is wayyyy too competitive. (I was warned at my interview). So I changed it up to AEC.

Two weeks later, shoot, two weeks ago, I GOT THE CALL!!!!!

Aug 26, St Jean- IAP/BOTC.

Here’s the thing:
I’m scared to death. No fooling. I’ve read all I can about the fitness, and I’ve been running. If I was looking at me while I run it would be with amused pity I think. But I’m running. I have read and taken to heart a hell of a post on running and fitness here on the board and it’s been a tremendous help. The situps, push up and so forth requirements I got down already (yeah, I’m a Greek God- NOT!) but the running’s a challenge I’m chipping away at.

My question: at 49 I’m going to be pushing the envelope. Has anyone over 45 ever gotten thru Boot Camp?  I’m not worried about the academics as much as the physical demands. I don’t know if an average guy can do this. Without getting into too much detail, suffice it to say that I am well and truly prepared to submit to training as a cadet/candidate and learn as much as I can. I’m aware of the **ahem** human side of large organizations and the difficulties that I’ll encounter in moulding myself into a military oriented mindset. I’m mostly concerned with the funny looks people my age give me when I tell them what I’m doing.

My Little Maple Leaf (ex Air Force brat and ex CF member) is convinced I can do this. Frankly, she’s biased  ;D.

All I’m looking for is other Silver Foxes that have done this. Because in this respect I feel kinda alone out here. 

(Okay, I've written this, proof read this, and I'm gonna post. Let the chips fall where they may)


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## LeonTheNeon (30 May 2007)

I am not over 45; however, I am a terrible runner.  I've never been good at running and as I've gotten older I've not improved.  Two decades of martial arts training has been hard on my joints and so running is very difficult for me.  I was able to do the running components of basic training.  It took more effort for me then for others, but I did do them.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is this.  Basic is largely a mental game, not a physical game.  As long as you're making a 100% effort and your staff can see that they may yell and scream at you that you're not good enough, you're too slow, you'll be kicked out if you don't run faster... but that's just the mental game.  They pick on everybody's weaknesses.  That IS the game.

That being said there a few mandatory physical checks during basic.

1) CFExpres test  (2.4 KM in 12:30 minutes should ensure you can get the bare minimum but aim for 12:00)
2) 13KM rucksack march (no running but can be very physically demanding on those in poor physical condition)
3) C&Ps for poor physical fitness (i.e. falling back on a run).  To avoid this try to reach a point where you can do 5KM in ~26 minutes.  You're natural rate of improvement during basic should allow you to keep up with the platoon during the course.

There was a woman on our course who was 43.  She passed without any difficulty.


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## AmmoTech90 (30 May 2007)

I took a welding course at New Brunswick Community College near Gagetown with a fellow that had joined the infantry at 50.  He made it through Battleschool and was posted to 2 RCR.  It can be done.  Keep in mind he was merchant marine for his entire life so he was pretty tough so that was an advantage that probably helped him through Battleschool.


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## niner domestic (30 May 2007)

Congrats Jim! 

In about 6 months from now, you'll be that "guy that was on my course who was almost 50 - passed".  I'm with your wife on this one, you'll do fine.  

My husband who is also of an advanced type age and well past the warranty running out, started running in earnest last year after quitting smoking.  He wheezed and huffed is way every other day to run 5km and then one day, he came in from a run and his face wasn't the puce colour anymore, it was a nice glowy pink.  He wasn't wheezing and he had done it in a personal best time.  He had been running at that point for about 3 months - every other day, and alternate days in the gym doing weights and cardio training.  (and I stuck him on a special diet at home)

Last Sat. he ran his first 10km race and set a personal best time for himself.  

Just make sure you have your doc on board with you and take care of any minor injuries at the time they occur and you'll be fine.  Make sure you have proper shoes and apparel (one sure way to discourage you is chafing from clothing or blisters/foot/ankle/leg problems from ill fitting shoes) and stay motivated.  

Good luck!


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## gaspasser (30 May 2007)

Jim, no fears!  I was on POET in Kingston with TWO "old fart club" guys who just finished thier recruit training.  One was 46 and the other was 49.  Rob {49} is now 50, here in Trenton as an ATIS tech.  I'm sure if guys like that can make it, you can!!!  I was 42 {22 years in, mind you} at the time and was able to keep up [and pester the younglings to keep up on PT] 
Heck if you have the determination to join the Canadian Forces at 49, you have it to get thru.
Good Luck and can't wait to hear from you on this site!!!!


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## 211RadOp (30 May 2007)

Jim,

Just after I finished my basic training in Cornwallis NS in the late '80s, a lady came through who was 52. She passed and did her three years.

If you have the will and determination, you can do anything you want.


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## observor 69 (30 May 2007)

Jim excellent first post. Looks like you should go for it!! ;D

I went to full retirement in my career and was in better shape than fifty percent of my recruit POET students.

Small word of advice its "basic" not "boot camp." 

Best of luck


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## GUNS (30 May 2007)

Jim,
Go for it, I was accepted into the Reserves at age 51 and the Reg.Forces were offering me a bonus to go back into the Regs.
The military is more concerned about whats in your head and in your heart because if you have a head on your shoulders and the heart to follow through. The body will learn to accept its new life style.

Best thing that happened to me when I made the decision to join, I got myself in shape and stayed in shape.

Worst thing that happened to me when I made the decision to join, the other recruits kept referring to me as the "old guy". ;D

Best of luck


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## GAP (30 May 2007)

GUNS said:
			
		

> Worst thing that happened to me when I made the decision to join, the other recruits kept referring to me as the "old guy". ;D



Uhhh.....well, you are....  ;D


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## gaspasser (30 May 2007)

GUNS said:
			
		

> Worst thing that happened to me when I made the decision to join, the other recruits kept referring to me as the "old guy". ;D



Meh! you'll get used to that.  Most of the kids used to come to me for advise and such.  You'll end up like most of us have, DAD to everyone.  
Best of Luck.


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## niner domestic (30 May 2007)

I just tell hubby to say, "He's not old, it's just his warranty has expired - He's an As-Is."


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## Wookilar (30 May 2007)

Jim,

I work with many 40-46 year olds and we all did IAP/BOTP at the same time (I'm 37). No problems. We may not be quite as fast as the young pups, but we don't have to be. A great many "more experienced" (old  ) people go through Basic all the time, whether it's for BMQ or IAP. You might be the oldest on your course, but you probably will not be alone in your age category for the Express Test.

Wook


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## xo31@711ret (30 May 2007)

Jim, I retired at age 42 last year (presently applying for the reserves; ...'ya can take the guy outa the field, but ya can't take the field outa the guy'). My brother-in-law was a tanker (armoured) in the late 70's and early '80's when he pulled the plug. He rejoined in the mid '90's as armoured again in his late 40's. He had to do his QL3 (trade traing) over again due to the amount of time he had released (combat arms trade traing - not easy).  During his course he was always referred to as 'Pops' and the 'old man'. But a lot of his fellow recruits always went to him for advice and technique (e.g. shining shoes). Guess who topped the course? 

With your attitude and your better half's tremoundous support, IMHO I think you will do just great!


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## Jim_M58 (30 May 2007)

Wow. Thank you so much for the words, people. 

I think my apprehension is indicative of just how badly I want this career. I haven't felt this level of desire, and anxiety in over 25 years. I'm preparing for St. Jean in a steady fashion, feeling fortunate that I have 90 days to do so.

I am very grateful for this support from people such as yourselves who are speaking from recent experience. It's been a real shot in the arm for me. I work afternoons/ night shifts pushing a cab; and to wake up to this string is great. 

God knows I’m going to make mistakes and screw ups as I do this. I’m prepared for that- I’ll do my best to learn from them. I’m confident that I’m going to run into people I won’t get along with- I’m prepared for that. I’m sure there’s going to be times over the next 11 years that I’ll wonder what the heck I was doing- so be it. But I also know that the rewards will outweigh the down sides. 

There's something else that I want to mention here about me and this journey.

It's not uncommon for people in my age group to be living lives of quiet desperation. As the body changes, and as we begin to lose some of our youthful edges because of nature's processes, middle aged people go through a crises of one kind or another. God knows I did. We don’t get to put up 40+ age numbers after our names without a bag of regrets, sorrows, and ‘I wish I knew then what I know now’ kind of emotions. It’s part of the aging process whether I like it or not. 

This journey I’m preparing to undertake is a bit scary, sure. But much more than the intimidating parts, is the sense of renewal for me. I’m a type of guy that has a tendency to wear my heart on my sleeve. And right now, I’m in for a thrilling life. And to be able to have this excitement, motivation, and downright zest at this stage of my life is a blessing.

This is a gift.

Jim


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## dunkski (30 May 2007)

Congratulations Jim! I know exactly what you are saying...although I am not as "experienced" as you (I'm only 35!!) I too am contemplating a career switch to the Forces. Hopefully the CEOTP still has some room...


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## RetiredRoyal (12 Jun 2007)

**retiredroyal raises his mug to all the old timers

Hail,

Congrats to all the old farts... when we were all twenty (i'm turning 42 on june 15th) 40 was old. the culture of the forces taught us that a guy was tx'd at 40 and should be put off to pasture. When I was in the infantry, by the time you were 40 your knees and back were pretty well worn anyways. In the air force you learned that your 50 yr old MWO was only fit to sit in the office. Times and culture are changing.

Can you imagine your dad, at 40, sitting on the floor of the rec room, playing electric guitar and while watching TV? Thats what I do at night. How about getting his pilots license, changing careers or joining a martial arts club? I bet you all have similar hobbies or stories.

I was reading a while ago that '50 is the new 30', because of health and fitness etc. That probably means 40 is the new 20, at least that's what i'm telling myself.

I've  been in the process of re-enrolling over the last 8 months. The most time consuming process has been getting my records out of archives and waiting for appointments because of my full time work commitment.

My docs are finally off to the appropriate hq's for signature, so we'll see what happens from there. I even have a posting commitment from the career mangler, provided all my stuff gets signed.


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## kincanucks (12 Jun 2007)

I am 49 years old and after nearly 27 years in, 17 of those years in the combat arms, all I can say to you is that you are in for a world of hurt.  I guarantee that by age 52 you will regret your decision but then again you are joining the Air Force where you will spend most time sitting on your ass and eating donuts so you might be okay.  Good Luck.


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## mover1 (12 Jun 2007)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> I am 49 years old and after nearly 27 years in, 17 of those years in the combat arms, all I can say to you is that you are in for a world of hurt.  I guarantee that by age 52 you will regret your decision but then again you are joining the Air Force where you will spend most time sitting on your *** and eating donuts so you might be okay.  Good Luck.



Well aside from that little morale booster.  Good luck, try not to over think and remember, age = life experience so if you see something that doesn't make any sense just go with it. Try not to over think anything.
Avoid listening to those old bitter individuals who get nothing more out of life than to whine mope and complain and have nothing better to do than to poison people with their attitude.
 HAVE FUN WITH IT. ;D

kinacanucks go F*** your hat!  
How can you say that by 52 he would be regretting it when you are only 49? Do you have a crystal ball or something?


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## RetiredRoyal (12 Jun 2007)

mover, 
you already answered your own question "old bitter individuals who get nothing more out of life than to whine mope and complain and have nothing better to do than to poison people with their attitude."

Doesn't canuck work at a recruting centre or something? lol...great first impression for newbies. Like sending those 300lb 5'4" tall clerks to the trade shows to represent the forces.

By 52, we'll be regretting the things we didn't try. And yes, you're in for a world of hurt. Your legs will hurt, your back will ache, you'll be tired and sometimes wet and hungry, but by the god's, you'll have done it.


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## kincanucks (12 Jun 2007)

RR and Mover1 FF, perhaps you two should give your heads a shake.  First of all, if you don't have any working experience in recruiting then STFU and for your information I longer work in recruiting. But thanks for those uninformed opinions keep them coming as they certainly add humour to this site. Secondly, read my post again.  I started in my twenties and he will be starting in his late forties so by the time he is 52 it quite possibly that he could be in a world of hurt. Ever hear of physiology, loudmouth?

"old bitter individuals who get nothing more out of life than to whine mope and complain and have nothing better to do than to poison people with their attitude."

Actually I get more out of my life by preparing _young _ people for a future in the artillery and the CF and being with my family and friends.  So perhaps you can go and F@#K your hats!


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## mover1 (12 Jun 2007)

For your information sir my 9er domestic has been on tour since December and I am an expert at f***ing my hat.   I did give my head a shake once. That's when I remustered!


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## RetiredRoyal (12 Jun 2007)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> all I can say to you is that you are in for a world of hurt.  I guarantee that by age 52 you will regret your decision"



OK, so I re-read your post as suggested and found the quote cited above.

You didn't say "by the time he is 52 it quite possibly that he could be in a world of hurt" you said "All I can say is that you are in for a world of hurt. I guarantee that by the age 52 you will regret your decision" Which I have to agree is a not a very positive statement and one that many of us have heard by the type of people mover1 has suggested. 

On reading the rest of this thread, I find you have pretty much the sole dissenting opinion, disagreeing with even those who have first hand experience of the process at his age, not in their twenties, when both you and I did basic, battle school etc.

I personally, would not take the path of a very good friend of mine and re-enroll as an Infantryman and go back to the regiment at this time in my life. I know from first hand experience it's a hard life and not easy on the body. However, that didn't seem to be the career path chosen here so the opinion was kept to myself.

Perhaps take some of your own advice, re-read your post before misquoting yourself or stick to entertaining the rest of us. Did you really find Artillery training difficult at 22? I remember you guys driving by us all the time. You looked pretty safe and comfy.


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## mover1 (12 Jun 2007)

"..... but then again you are joining the Air Force where you will spend most time sitting on your *** and eating donuts......"

" But thanks for those uninformed opinions keep them coming as they certainly add humour to this site"


No THANK YOU for your uninformed opinion! ;D


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## Rowshambow (12 Jun 2007)

I am almost 36 and am going from the Combat arms to an AF trade, I hope kincanucks is not too far off, I want to eat doughnuts and sit on my Arse! LOL

Age is what you make of it, I have seen young guys that regret their decision, and older soldiers that don't! As long as someone is in shape and has A good mind and positive thought process they should be fine! When I was in The CA, the WO's and Sgt's usually could out pt, load and brake track, than the younger recruits, why because they have the experience and know how!
I am not saying he might be in a little more pain than his younger counterpart, just give it a try!

Good luck!


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## RetiredRoyal (12 Jun 2007)

I've heard that AF2000 cut the donut rations down, but my buddies who are still in assure me that the only way to find a tow crew is to hit the smoke tent and catch the bodies before they scatter.


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## Pencil Tech (12 Jun 2007)

Jim, you go buddy. I did basic at age 50. The young guys got a kick out of me and picked me up more than once. It's one of the greatest experiences you can ever have. All the best!


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## mover1 (12 Jun 2007)

RetiredRoyal said:
			
		

> I've heard that AF2000 cut the donut rations down, but my buddies who are still in assure me that the only way to find a tow crew is to hit the smoke tent and catch the bodies before they scatter.



That would be true, but they had to tear down the smoke tent due to the new laws.  So you have to go out to the enclosed Gazebo they built instead.


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## Jim_M58 (12 Jun 2007)

Geez Louise; got a bit testy here, eh? (and I said that ‘eh’ in my bestest Canadian accent!)

I put this post up in order to have people give me their honest assessment. The amount of support is gratifying, believe me. To have heard of people in my age range getting thru basic was exactly what I needed to hear.

I think I also needed to hear kincanucks two cents. With all the excitement, and anticipation of August, a good bucket of cold water reality check ain’t too bad. Believe me, I’m aware that there’s a risk here to me. In fact, there’s a bunch of risks:

Never having been in a military culture, I may not be able to fit in. Then to go thru six years of being dissatisfied could be a real drag. This I know.

Physiologically- oooohhh boy do I know that I’m on some kinda thin ice. My knees, back, muscular system, and everything is almost half a century old. And I’m aware of that every time I go on my run. 12:30 for 2.5 kms seems unreachable when you’re stuck at 16:00 as a personal best so far. 

World of hurt? Yeah, I’m pretty sure that I’m in for one. And I can’t be positive at my age that I’m going to make it thru. What I am positive about is that I’m going to give it my best shot; that way if I don’t make it, I’ll at least have some self respect. 

I chose the Air Force for a couple of reasons- first of all, my wife grew up as an Air Force brat. She has a decent idea of what it’s like being a dependant. Sure that was a looong time ago; but still, it’s one that our family has a working knowledge of. 

At my age, going to CAP would be a big challenge from what I understand it to be from the outside. Thus, I can still make a contribution without biting off more than I can chew. 

Kincanuck, you gave an honest assessment, and showed the guts to stand by it. I don’t agree with you at all (cuz if I did, I wouldn’t be doing this!), and I hope to prove you mistaken. But I hear you loud and clear. Time will tell who’s right, right?  Your crack about:
“Actually I get more out of my life by preparing young people for a future in the artillery”

makes me just as glad as you that I didn’t choose arty as an occupation. Butcha’ know what? If I did, I bet I’d win you over. 

To the other posters, man, thanks. It was a shot in the arm to read what you replied to him, and your takes. Pencil Tech??? FRIKKIN FIFTY??? How’s yer world of hurt? Lol

To this candidate, kincanuck does appear somewhat bitter. But frankly, with the kind of time he’s got in, he’s earned the right to his perspective. If he was a guy with just a couple of years in, that would be one thing; but when you measure your time in decades, whoaaa… he’s been around the block more that a few times. 

(I’m actually giggling at the irony of this moment- here’s an American trying to make peace between Canadians!! OMG too frikkin’ funny!!) In other words, your take on this is valid based upon your experience. Now whether it’s accurate remains to be seen. 

My appreciation to everyone that has taken the time to post on this thread runs pretty deep. I look forward to spending the rest of my working life with people like you.


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## kincanucks (14 Jun 2007)

FOr those well written comments I wish you the very best of luck.  To my detractors you can still f@#k your hats.  Out.


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## RetiredRoyal (15 Jun 2007)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> To my detractors you can still f@#k your hats.  Out.



My hat is all I'm getting...mover1's 9'r higher is still out of town.


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## mover1 (15 Jun 2007)

8 more hours and she is inbound.
No more hat F***ing for this guy.
 ;D


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## Spring_bok (15 Jun 2007)

mover1 said:
			
		

> 8 more hours and she is inbound.
> No more hat F***ing for this guy.
> ;D


I guess I'll talk to you in a week or so then.


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## mover1 (15 Jun 2007)

Spring_bok

naw you can come over and sit in my living room tell my wife you love her like a sister and ask if we have any Kraft Dinner....just like old times.


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## RetiredRoyal (15 Jun 2007)

mover1 said:
			
		

> Spring_bok
> 
> naw you can come over and sit in my living room tell my wife you love her like a sister and ask if we have any Kraft Dinner....just like old times.



Kraft Dinner, you got Kraft Dinner? What time is supper?


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## mover1 (15 Jun 2007)

I will make you guys some but don't be upset if I don't have any with you, I plan on eating something else


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## Jim_M58 (15 Jun 2007)

Okay....
 :-[
I think I get it:
"9r higher" = wife right?

Or is there some kinda stuff that is a mystery? Some kinda Canadian military super duper secret rite done with macaroni and cheese?

NOW I'M REALLY SKARED!!!  ;D

On the other hand, it could be that:
1. It's true- soldiers can't cook
2. It's also true- soldiers are perpetually horny.

And since it's Friday, I think this thread is now officially hijacked!


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## RetiredRoyal (15 Jun 2007)

Jim_M58 said:
			
		

> On the other hand, it could be that:
> 1. It's true- soldiers can't cook
> 2. It's also true- soldiers are perpetually horny.
> 
> And since it's Friday, I think this thread is now officially hijacked!



I also didn't learn how to start a fire without a gallon of gasoline until I left the military. People would say, " I thought you were in the infantry?" I'd respond "Fires break light discipline, when we light them, we make them big because at that point, it won't matter who see's it."


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## mover1 (15 Jun 2007)

THe KD dates back to a time when one of  the guys came over to my house when I was trying to get one last romantic night in before I deployed. He sat around and hinted he wanted Kraft dinner. The candles and Lingere didn't clue him in. He sat around. watched T.V.  

Yes I can cook. I can cook spagetti and meat sauce using nothing but a coffee maker. (Its True ask Sprink_bok)

9er higher is the female domestic head of the household often refered to as 9er domestic. Never as woman with a snap of the fingers,
 :blotto:


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## radop215 (18 Jun 2007)

Jim, when i went thru cornwallis in 93, we had a 49 year old guy that quit the rcmp to join the navy as a OS.  he just about topped the course.  stick to your guns and youll do fine.  from what i hear basic is a little bit easier now.
Good luck!


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## Korporaal (6 Nov 2007)

I wasn`t sure if I should start another thread on this topic, so to avoid the wrath of the moderators I thought it best to revive the current one even though no further word by  M 58 has been heard.
Is he MIA ? 
I was quite curious as to how he has held up/is holding up as I`m in the same position.
I`ve applied for Infantry Reserves as (opposed to the Airforce) but I`m also a bit "long in the tooth", I think I do however have the advantage of having served before so I do know what to expect during BMQ, etc.

Does anybody know how he`s doing ?


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