# Canadian Military Ethos



## excoelis (6 Jun 2004)

My discussions in another thread have led me to posting these here in an effort to stay 'on track'.

Any comments from the 'coal face' on the current state of affairs wrt military ethos?

Do you young'uns agree with the last paragraph?



> The Canadian Army ethos lists four key items â â€ duty, honour, integrity and discipline. The following is the Canadian Army's expression of military ethos:
> 
> Within the Canadian army, the military ethos is further amplified and applied in a manner which recognizes the army's unique function and role which, in its barest essence, requires soldiers to close with and defeat an enemy in face-to-face combat. Hence, the military ethos is in part a warrior's code; overall, it is an all-encompassing military philosophy and moral culture derived from the imperatives of military professionalism, the requirements of the battlefield and the demands war makes on the human character. The army's expression of the military ethos is anchored on four precepts which are incumbent on every soldier at every rank level. These are:
> 
> ...


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## BDTyre (6 Jun 2004)

I guess I'm an older person trapped in a young person's body....

I hold loyalty to family, community, government, etc.  I'm willing to serve our country; I may not like those who run it, but I'll defend their right to make stupid mistakes and mess everything up.


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## Nat. Cap. Girl (16 Jun 2004)

"For the Gen-Xers (Canadians under 30), none of these values hold appeal. Instant gratification, desire for independence, and hedonism all seem to take priority. Indeed this does pose some problems. "

I'm definitely not one of those... my brother sure is though.
I definitely respect those values... especially Duty and Discipline

what does hedonism MEAN anyway.


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## drebk (16 Jun 2004)

I see those qualities in people I know, but they also don't apply to people I know (including myself) heh, there are obviously problems in making generic, sweeping, overgeneralizing statements, but i would suppose it is more true than false. 

at the same time, it seems to me, that each generation looks at the one below it with their noses turned up, Generation "1 younger than mine" is filled with sex-crayzed, drug doing, <insert negative comment here> while generation "1 older than mine" seems to only remember the good/noble things about themselves


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## Brad Sallows (16 Jun 2004)

Hedonism = pleasure-seeking behaviour; pursuit of happiness.

I frequently encounter evidence that my values are not congruent with those of the majority of the following generations (or for that matter, my own).

It is a truism that a social order only lasts as long as there are those willing and able to defend it.  In 1939, some people stood up to defend certain values with which they identified, while others who did not share those values quite forcefully did not stand up.  One may imagine a future Canada under threat in which today's (or yesterday's) soldiers could not be bothered to defend the new "Canadian values" and it will be up to those who believe in those values to fight, or be assimilated (and thus acquire new values).

Question to ask yourselves: if your values more closely align with those of the US, would you fight or stand aside if the US attempted to annex your part of Canada, and why?


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## Nat. Cap. Girl (16 Jun 2004)

I agree that generally my generation is like that, but I'm not.


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## excoelis (16 Jun 2004)

> while generation "1 older than mine" seems to only remember the good/noble things about themselves



If it's any consolation, the good professor was in Afghanistan while I was there.  She definitely falls under the generation that she has painted a rosy picture of.

Draw your own conclusions


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## Tebo (19 Jun 2004)

Excellent discussion from this and the pathfinder thread Excoelis.   I have no exact idea of where you are coming from or alluding to. I will, however, throw my contribution into the ring and hope it is relevant.

When taken on the macroscopic scale, a predominately hedonistic mindset would seemingly render a country indefensible: the society is incapable of generating persons with the qualities required to field a combat force.   Furthermore, what value is found in duty, integrity, discipline and honour while in service of a selfish, arrogant and irrational body?   Dr.   Winslow's subordinating individual no longer finds a common good to sacrifice for; in a competitive world this loss should lead to national collapse.   Responsibility falls to the society to operate in a manner that bestows these qualities to some portion of the populace.

That's the black and white of my thinking.   In the gray we have technology that may be able to defend a nation better than people soon enough and negate the need for human sacrifice, maybe even end any notion of community based values.   Furthermore, some aspects of individualism serve the forces and the world in a most positive way.   Personal responsibility, earned leadership positions and disobedience to unlawful orders all spring to mind.   There are certainly more gray areas.

Thoughts?


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## excoelis (19 Jun 2004)

> I have no exact idea of where you are coming from or alluding to



Nor do I, I'm in a constant fugue state. 



> Furthermore, what value is found in duty, integrity, discipline and honour while in service of a selfish, arrogant and irrational body?



Endeavour to NOT be a part of that body.  NEVER condone it's actions.   

To me it's all about realm of influence.  I've come to terms with the fact that I will never run the country.  As a matter of fact there are times when I wonder if I could organise a rum ration in a rowboat  

In my opinion, nobility lies in the effort.  We can sit around and discuss these lofty ideals til the cows come home, but it's all for naught unless we try to make a difference.  Discussing these things is the first step to questioning and asserting your personal ethos.  Then, when you think you have your shit squared away, try to assimilate with one or more like-minded individuals.  Shit man, it's exponential.  In theory, it's so simple they make shampoo commercials about it - and they told two friends, and so on..................... :

Really though, in all seriousness, the military is a hell of a place to start.   You can surround yourself with people who uphold most, if not all, of the same ideals.

I may not change the world in my lifetime, but I'll make every effort to make my own realm of influence fair, just, noble, rewarding, enjoyable, and......if I can be so presumptuous.......... EXPANDING.

The best case scenario is when all of the expanding realms, in their effort to unite, overwhelm those individuals who stand alone in their convictions.  

Who's ever heard of a society of ONE?

Hedonism. Narcissism.  Instant gratification.  They serve the one.

Oh, finally the answer to your original question?



> Furthermore, what value is found in duty, integrity, discipline and honour while in service of a selfish, arrogant and irrational body?



DIGNITY


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