# Thoughts on Rum Rations & Field Smokers (From:



## MikeL (17 Jul 2013)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> I will say that Rum Rations authorized by CO's/Comds are seemingly making a come back as are large "smokers".  I took part in both this spring as part of Ex PR/MR, and frankly having served since the 80's, I never thought I'd see either....so things can change for the better.



How are rum rations and smokers coming back a change for the better?

I've been on 2-3 exercises that had smokers;  while they were nice, I think most people would have been fine with waiting another couple days/another month until they were home if they wanted a drink.  As always, there will be those people who get carried away with the drinking and vomit all over the place, and will be a write off for a portion of the next day.

But, without alcohol in the field, I guess we wouldn't get stories like a Cpl vomiting on a officer's bivvy bag/cot - No, that person wasn't me for those wondering


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## George Wallace (17 Jul 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> How are rum rations and smokers coming back a change for the better?
> 
> I've been on 2 exercises that had smokers (both during work up training in '07);  while they were nice I guess I think most people would have been fine with waiting another couple days/another month until they were home if they wanted a drink.  As always, there will be those people who get carried away with the drinking and vomit all over the place, and will be a write off for a portion of the next day.



I think you are one of the many who do not truly appreciate the significance of the Mess and functions like Smokers.  I ran into many who would prefer to go back to their room in the Shack or go home and sit alone with their bar fridge.  I believe that that type of person would be facing more mental problems down the road, than those who shared their experiences while enjoying camaraderie at a unit function, be it in the Field or the Mess.  Those functions serve more as 'destressers'  more often than the"go home and stew" idea.


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## MikeL (17 Jul 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I think you are one of the many who do not truly appreciate the significance of the Mess and functions like Smokers.  I ran into many who would prefer to go back to their room in the Shack or go home and sit alone with their bar fridge.  I believe that that type of person would be facing more mental problems down the road, than those who shared their experiences while enjoying camaraderie at a unit function, be it in the Field or the Mess.  Those functions serve more as 'destressers'  more often than the"go home and stew" idea.



I have nothing against smokers,  unit functions or against sharing experiences/camaraderie at said functions.  As well, I have partaken in them - both in the field and BBQ/beers after a BFT before being released for a long weekend, etc.  

As mentioned before, my experience with field smokers is limited as I've only been on 2-3 exercises that had them, out of the numerous more that did not.   My post was more directed at the rum rations/alcohol in the field; for that, I am more neutral, as I don't see that as either a sign of a change for the better(or worse).


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## Colin Parkinson (17 Jul 2013)

We had unofficial rum rations where the WO came around and poured people a shot of rum, all coming out of his own pocket. It was gesture of caring for his men and a way of checking up on everyone on the field ex.


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## OldSolduer (17 Jul 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> How are rum rations and smokers coming back a change for the better?


We used to have them years ago. They foster a sense of camaraderie, and a sense of belonging. Yep, they have turned into "low ground"  sessions, however, when all was said and done the air was cleared, and we soldiered on.
 :warstory:
In fact a former CO.....who shall remain nameless....took up the invite from one of his subbies to a session in the low ground.

Said subbie looked like a raccoon the next day.


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## Towards_the_gap (17 Jul 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> We used to have them years ago. They foster a sense of camaraderie, and a sense of belonging. Yep, they have turned into "low ground"  sessions, however, when all was said and done the air was cleared, and we soldiered on.
> :warstory:
> In fact a former CO.....who shall remain nameless....took up the invite from one of his subbies to a session in the low ground.
> 
> Said subbie looked like a raccoon the next day.



What did the CO look like the next day? Or was he 'at brigade'  ;D


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## OldSolduer (17 Jul 2013)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> What did the CO look like the next day? Or was he 'at brigade'  ;D



Niner was just fine.


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## Humphrey Bogart (17 Jul 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Niner was just fine.



Niner Domestic; however, was most likely losing her s***  ;D


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## OldSolduer (18 Jul 2013)

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Niner Domestic; however, was most likely losing her s***  ;D



Niner Domestic never found out. This happened in Wainwright in about 79 or 80.


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## daftandbarmy (18 Jul 2013)

Larger and more 'formal' events were always less effective than pulling out a couple of cases of beer after an exercise and BSing with the troops. They should leave these events where they belong: within the realm of a Nelsonian blind eye. Anything else should probably be managed within the envelope of the approved messes IMHO.


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## PMedMoe (18 Jul 2013)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Larger and more 'formal' events were always less effective than pulling out a couple of cases of beer after an exercise and BSing with the troops.



I agree and would have preferred smokers to occur while still in the field.  When I was at Fd Amb, it was always done _after_ we'd gotten back in.  We'd work like mad to get stuff unpacked, sorted, hanging to dry, etc and then have to attend a BBQ or pizza party (often without the benefit of alcoholic beverages).  It sucked because that's when everyone wanted to get the hell out of Dodge and away from people they'd been stuck with all week.

Two incidences come to mind: a BBQ with the flying kitchens set up in the compound (but they couldn't accompany us to the field); and a pizza party where the first people lined up for food were the cleaners and the rear party.   :


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## xo31@711ret (18 Jul 2013)

Well, from 1RCR in the early & mid 80's: we always had a BBQ and-or smoker in the field after end-ex, usually a few days before heading home (when most gear was packed & ready to go); Pet, Ipperwash, Norway, Wainwright (after RV's), etc, etc, etc. Sure there were sometimes a couple games of 'smack-face'. But I saw that downtown in London, Pembrook, Hull, Ottawa, Hull, Halifax, Oromocto, etc etc with military troops. Personally, I thought smokers were great moral boosters & stress relievers before heading back to home base. Have great memories of some good smokers. I retired in 06 out of Ggetown & (real) smokers were pretty much gone the way of the Dodo in my opinion. But probably just the sign of the times....


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## Jarnhamar (18 Jul 2013)

I don't like being stuck at smokers when I could otherwise be at home, range or gym but they do have some beneficial applications in my opinion.


Singling soldiers out and letting them know that you noticed how hard they worked or how great of a job they did.  I find one-on-one "good job dude" chats are sincere than when cpl X gets singled out in front of a large crowd (which at times feels staged).

Giving your boss (or someone higher in the chain of command) some tactful 1 on 1 feedback.

Making connections with other elements (say chatting up signalers or maintainers)

Getting legitimate feed back from people or hearing about problems you might be unaware of (learned about a guys alcohol dependence this way and got him some help)


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Jul 2013)

ObedientiaZelum said:
			
		

> Getting legitimate feed back from people or hearing about problems you might be unaware of (learned about a guys alcohol dependence this way and got him some help)



Another sign of 'changing times' IMO.  BZ on the yellow part.


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## Colin Parkinson (18 Jul 2013)

Inviting a group that was attached to your unit during the exercise to join in can be a good way to build connections with other units as well.


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## PanaEng (18 Jul 2013)

Absolutely! to the above.
In addition, it is a safe environment when done in the field - the afternoon before redeploying. You can control what happens and get ppl the appropriate rest/recovery/treatment before they get on the road for home and some husband/wife/gf/bf notices the fresh wounds and starts bitching to the Bde Comd ;-)

The best one by far was a surprise - on a course ex in Chilcotin - we still thought we had another day of mine laying, trench digging and skirmishes with the opfor when, during a pl attack on a abandoned house, end-ex was called and we were told to go around the back for debrief; then we noticed the chickens being let loose - there's your dinner! - the bbq's smoking and the coolers coming out of the 5/4 ton...

(maybe it was different, but that's how I remember it  )

Chimo!


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## Towards_the_gap (18 Jul 2013)

Quite possibly the worst example of the 'forced fun smoker' was after a month long exercise, endex was called, all kit was cleaned and returned, everything accounted for by 1600.....then they literally locked the gates, fired up the grills, and made everyone stay overnight and get 'high-spirited'. 

Of course the end result was the complete opposite: everyone was pissed off that they were shouting distance from their homes, which they hadn't seen in a month, yet were being forced to hang around for an extra 12 hours in cadpat just so the CO could feel good about himself and imagine himself some leader of a great warrior tribe feasting and swilling mead after a good days battle, when the reality was 300 stone cold sober, grumpy, individuals, a handful of do-or-die alcoholics and a mood that you would imagine being similar to Stalag-Luft III at Christmas.


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## Old EO Tech (18 Jul 2013)

Well my recent experience is all positive, like people have said you get to have a few beers with all the people from other units that are attached to you that you don't normally see at work.  And yes you may get the chance to informally give feedback to senor leadership


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## PPCLI Guy (18 Jul 2013)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Well my recent experience is all positive, like people have said you get to have a few beers with all the people from other units that are attached to you that you don't normally see at work.  And yes you may get the chance to informally give feedback to senor leadership



That is because you are in 1 CMBG....


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## PAdm (19 Jul 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> How are rum rations and smokers coming back a change for the better?



You had me at "rum"........


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## daftandbarmy (19 Jul 2013)

I recall an exercise at Sandhurst where, after a week long defensive exercise we had to up stakes and conduct a fighting withdrawal through the night and dig in again. I think we covered, oh, at least a million miles on foot, or it seemed like that.

While digging in again the OC turned up and dished out a Norge container full of tea to each section. It was winter, we were cold, starving and dehydrated, and a steaming jug of sugary tea was something akin to gold dust in value to us at that moment. We each got our mugs out and chugged as much tea as we could hold.

About half way through the first mug I realized that the OC had added (at least) a bottle of rum to each container.

I don't know if it was effective, but it was amusing to watch a bunch of instantly drunk 20 somethings trying to carry on with the mission of digging in while thoroughly hammered.


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## Old EO Tech (19 Jul 2013)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> That is because you are in 1 CMBG....



That may very well be a factor   Being "cowboys" of course we are not so stuck on these "rules" things that everyone talks about :-/


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Jul 2013)

Although once upon a time I recall something being said about a "Gatorade Brigade".... ^-^


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## OldSolduer (19 Jul 2013)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> That may very well be a factor   Being "cowboys" of course we are not so stuck on these "rules" things that everyone talks about :-/



We don't need no stinkin rules......


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## CombatDoc (19 Jul 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> We don't need no stinkin rules......


I was thinking more like "Yippee ki yea..."


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## my72jeep (19 Jul 2013)

The last Smoker I was at that was in the field was in the late 80's. We had been out in the field for just over 3 weeks and were done after one last big dust up. we had all the kit packed but for 10 sections of mod. when it was announced that the BBQ was going and the mess was wet till 23:00.
all was going fine till a few of us started rehashing past battles with coloured chalk on the side of the RSM's 5 1/4 ton CP. this was going OK till we discovered the box of pink chalk. It took 2 hours more beer than was needed and the whole box of chalk but in the end the truck was pink. Ah those were the care free days of summer.


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## PAdm (19 Jul 2013)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> The last Smoker I was at that was in the field was in the late 80's. We had been out in the field for just over 3 weeks and were done after one last big dust up. we had all the kit packed but for 10 sections of mod. when it was announced that the BBQ was going and the mess was wet till 23:00.
> all was going fine till a few of us started rehashing past battles with coloured chalk on the side of the RSM's 5 1/4 ton CP. this was going OK till we discovered the box of pink chalk. It took 2 hours more beer than was needed and the whole box of chalk but in the end the truck was pink. Ah those were the care free days of summer.



 :rofl:


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## Rifleman62 (19 Jul 2013)

daftandbarmy: 



> While digging in again the OC turned up and dished out a Norge container full of tea to each section. It was winter, we were cold, starving and dehydrated, and a steaming jug of sugary tea was something akin to gold dust in value to us at that moment. We each got our mugs out and chugged as much tea as we could hold.
> 
> About half way through the first mug I realized that the OC had added (at least) a bottle of rum to each container.



One year I was a WO PL Comd. We had not seen our rucks all week (yeah, I know it was only a 7 day FTX). The Rucks finally came up so the guys got a _couple_ of hours kip. (After Louie Ameral sat in a fresh cow paddy while we were waiting) 

The wake up call was "Gunfire", a traditional Rifle Regt drink. Hot, very sweat, strong tea, with the canteen cup filled to the brim with (Jameson) Irish Whiskey from my flask. The first rifleman still burned their lips. Everyone got a blast and perked right up for the final push around 0500. High morale that morning.

A few years latter, no booze in the field so no flask.

I believe the no smokers was due to the death of the two soldiers from the FGH and A RWpRif on a road move from Dundurn to Wpg in 1982. They just finished Dvr Weh, and were assigned to drive 106 RCL jeeps. The rolled the jeep and they died. Never drove 106 jeep before. They were on the MILCON and there was a smoker. Two BOI. The second and accepted BOI was done by the CO the the Airborne Regt.

We never had a smoker after that.

Tpt Krosleney's (spelling) mother kept after DND and eventually got an apology.


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## cupper (20 Jul 2013)

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> I believe the no smokers was due to the death of the two soldiers from the FGH and A RWpRif on a road move from Dundurn to Wpg in 1982. They just finished Dvr Weh, and were assigned to drive 106 RCL jeeps. The rolled the jeep and they died. Never drove 106 jeep before. They were on the MILCON and there was a smoker. Two BOI. The second and accepted BOI was done by the CO the the Airborne Regt.



Not sure if that was the impetus. They were still quite common when I was in from '83 to '89.

In fact we had a full blown field mess in the Service Battalion lines at Worthington on Milcon in '87. That was the year I discovered that Gagetown was not actually in Canada. There was a liquor strike in NB that summer, and somehow the Canex Officer was able to wrangle up several pallets of Labbatt's Blue in cans which were labeled "Imported From Canada"

One of the best field smokers I remember was at the end of an annual May Ex. We were sited at an old bauxite mine. Our company always set up a mess tent with beer fridge. Eventually as the night passed quite a few of the Battalion members on exercise ended up in the company mess tent. Much fun was to be had, including one of the junior officers leading the whole crowd in a sing along of songs which included various actions to act out while singing.

Grant you the breakdown the next morning to return to Halifax was a little slower and a little more painful than usual.


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## Kat Stevens (20 Jul 2013)

I left 1 CER for Germany in '88, and at that time full on end ex smokers were still in full effect.  In 4 CMBG full service drinking messes were almost the first thing set up and last to come down.  On return to 1 CER in 92, the fun police had a pretty firm choke hold on anything involving alcohol, a shock to me as we never got that memo in 4 CER.


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## Old EO Tech (20 Jul 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I left 1 CER for Germany in '88, and at that time full on end ex smokers were still in full effect.  In 4 CMBG full service drinking messes were almost the first thing set up and last to come down.  On return to 1 CER in 92, the fun police had a pretty firm choke hold on anything involving alcohol, a shock to me as we never got that memo in 4 CER.



I was with the Div Eng/22 Fd Sqn in RV 92 and we still had a large field mess with no limit on beer served every night.  It was starting in 93 that I noticed the Fun Police in full force in 1 CMBG.  We had lots of Reserve Fd Sqn's their too with a fair amount of young women, needless to say, the combination of beer and young people of the opposite sex lead to a few interesting situations :-/


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## Robert0288 (20 Jul 2013)

There was a smoker at the end of jointEX in wainwright this year.  To me it felt a little more like mandatory fun, but then again I wasn't stuck in tent city for 2 months.


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## MikeL (20 Jul 2013)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> It took 2 hours more beer than was needed and the whole box of chalk but in the end the truck was pink. Ah those were the care free days of summer.


lol



			
				cupper said:
			
		

> In fact we had a full blown field mess in the Service Battalion lines at Worthington on Milcon in '87. ...... Our company always set up a mess tent with beer fridge. Eventually as the night passed quite a few of the Battalion members on exercise ended up in the company mess tent.





			
				Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> In 4 CMBG full service drinking messes were almost the first thing set up and last to come down.





			
				Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> I was with the Div Eng/22 Fd Sqn in RV 92 and we still had a large field mess with no limit on beer served every night.



Were drinking messes in the field really this common?  And 2 beers a day(or more), etc?  Do you think these are something that should be brought back on the month long exercises, etc?  Was there any resentment/animosity between groups(have, and have not's) as I assume not all units were able to have access to mess tents/ daily beers.  On a similar topic, what was the drinking policy on the tours in Cyprus and Bosnia? I remember hearing from some guys that at certain camps they were allowed 2 beers a night.

After some more thought on the subject/remembering more of the smokers I was in a few years ago, they were cool and informal(within reason) with certain parts of the CoC.  Are they required? Probably not(IMO) but still nice to have occasionally.


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## Kat Stevens (20 Jul 2013)

No, on a 6-8 week concentration, you could pretty much drink your face off every night that you weren't on duty or training, as we were treated like and were expected to act like grown men.  Every unit in the field was the same.  As for missing a night, there was night training laid on for different sub units on different nights, it was uncommon to have the whole regiment in bivouac at the same time, but it all evened out.


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## dangerboy (20 Jul 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> On a similar topic, what was the drinking policy on the tours in Cyprus and Bosnia? I remember hearing from some guys that at certain camps they were allowed 2 beers a night.



In Croatia in 92 there was no limit, as long as you were able to perform your duty (sentry, night patrol, whatever).  We were mostly in either Sect or Pl houses (at least for the Rifle Coys) so we just looked after each other and if things got out of hand the chain of command got involved with the code of service discipline.  From what I can remember from my perspective as a Cpl it worked fine.  Later one when I deploy to Bosnia in 97 the 2 beer limit was imposed.


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## chrisf (20 Jul 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> as we were treated like and were expected to act like grown men



Unfortunately, not everyone met those expectations... and now we all suffer for it.

We can look at it with rose coloured glasses all we like, some people, after consuming alcohol, cause problems. Would it be the end of the world if "smokers" came back? Probably not. Probably definitely not. Would there be more problems to deal with? Probably. Maybe not a lot, but definitely more problems to deal with.


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## TangoTwoBravo (20 Jul 2013)

I joined in '89 and smokers/wet canteens in the field were common. They seemed to die around 1992/3. We still had smokers in the field in Gagetown circa 1999 to 2002 when there on exercise from 2 CMBG. We had beer nights and smokers on the BTE in '03, and Kabul was two beers per man per night. 

In 2 CMBG we certainly had smokers over the past four years. At 2 RCR we had a wet mess in PV and even had a field mess dinner. At our RCD BG at Maple Resolve ran a wet canteen for three of the six weeks (we had to be dry during the force on force portion). No issues, and it had a positive effect on morale. We had two smokers as well. 

I think that beer should be available in the field. Its takes some self-discipline and buddies/junior leaders who head trouble off early, but the positives outweigh the negatives. Troops work hard during the day when they know that they can chill with a few beers at night. Troops also understand that they can't always be at the mess tent due to training and I did not see jealousy. 

What does not work as well is a post-ex smoker at the home garrison location where the smoker is the only thing between the troops and home. Smokers are good activities during post-ex maintenance before leaving for the home garrison.


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## George Wallace (20 Jul 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Were drinking messes in the field really this common?  And 2 beers a day(or more), etc?  Do you think these are something that should be brought back on the month long exercises, etc?  Was there any resentment/animosity between groups(have, and have not's) as I assume not all units were able to have access to mess tents/ daily beers.  On a similar topic, what was the drinking policy on the tours in Cyprus and Bosnia? I remember hearing from some guys that at certain camps they were allowed 2 beers a night.



"Two beers per day, perhaps" is a recent phenomenon.  In the Mid-80's "Dry" Exercises began.  So did the drinking problems.  As was stated, the soldiers were treated like adults and they knew full well that if they screwed up or could not perform their duties, they were subject to Service Discipline.  Of course there were alcoholics, as there still are, and an alcoholic will still find his/her booze even if it is a "Dry Ex" or only "2 Beer per Day, Perhaps".  Once the Dry Exercises started, you found that any chance that the troops could have off to have a drink, they over compensated and drinking went overboard.  They were treated like children and then started to act like children ( in a candy store ).

The problems knew no boundaries in rank.  I remember a Dry Reforger, when our Sqn pulled into a town on the Czech border, and were stood down for a long weekend.  There was a Bierefest in town.  We had permission to go.  Everyone in the Sqn, from the lowest Cpl, right up to the CO, got totally wasted.  

These regs came about by some very fanatical reformed alcoholics reaching a very high rank, making policies that affected all troops because they had a problem and thought everyone had the same problem.  Gen Jeffries (the 8 CH(PL) one) had the Canadian contingent in the Multi-national Brigade get the nickname of "Cool-aid Bde" by his no alcohol policy in Bosnia.  He, however, said on a live news broadcast that he did not see anything wrong with a glass of wine with a meal........Ummmm?  And the troops can't have alcohol?  Yup.  Smells like.......


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## Old EO Tech (20 Jul 2013)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> In Croatia in 92 there was no limit, as long as you were able to perform your duty (sentry, night patrol, whatever).  We were mostly in either Sect or Pl houses (at least for the Rifle Coys) so we just looked after each other and if things got out of hand the chain of command got involved with the code of service discipline.  From what I can remember from my perspective as a Cpl it worked fine.  Later one when I deploy to Bosnia in 97 the 2 beer limit was imposed.



Same here, in CANBAT2 in Visoko in 94 there was no limits, you just had to be able to perform your duties.  Though the Patricia JR Mess did get ordered dry once in a while :-/  Never happened to the Strat Mess thank God    And yes in 97, I was in Coralici, they had an official 2 beer per night rule though it was not enforced too harshly, and lots of booze came back from R&R that was supposed to be left with PSP in VK.  But then again if you had no problems carrying out your duties no one complained :-/


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## George Wallace (20 Jul 2013)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Same here, in CANBAT2 in Visoko in 94 there was no limits, you just had to be able to perform your duties.



That was true for your Battle Group..... Later in '94 it became known as "Charge Bat" under the RCD's 2 Beer a day policy.....Only Jr NCO's were charged.  (one Sgt was charged....He was a MCpl WSE Sgt)


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## OldSolduer (20 Jul 2013)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, not everyone met those expectations... and now we all suffer for it.
> 
> We can look at it with rose coloured glasses all we like, some people, after consuming alcohol, cause problems. Would it be the end of the world if "smokers" came back? Probably not. Probably definitely not. Would there be more problems to deal with? Probably. Maybe not a lot, but definitely more problems to deal with.



Those people that cause problems - the National Defence Act should be brought to bear. If they continue to be jerks, then administrative action can be brought to bear.

But it's easier to ban things wholesale.


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## Kat Stevens (21 Jul 2013)

Much easier to invoke a blanket pre emptive group punishment than to go to the effort of dealing with shitheads individually.


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## chrisf (21 Jul 2013)

Edit: Whoops, misread what you meant, way off, no blanket parties, blanket as in all encompassing... but the point stands... stupid things happen when alcohol is involved... while you can deal with the individuals post-stupid, you can't un-do the stupid... even if it's only a few individuals among many, or even one individual among many, as per the "Strategic corporal" doctorine, we've got to remember, one person does something stupid, it comes back on all of us... it's just the risks you've got to be ready to take on if you're going to add alcohol... the vast majority of folks will act responsibly... but it only takes one to end up on the cover of a news paper...


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## SeaKingTacco (21 Jul 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> lol
> 
> Were drinking messes in the field really this common?  And 2 beers a day(or more), etc?  Do you think these are something that should be brought back on the month long exercises, etc?  Was there any resentment/animosity between groups(have, and have not's) as I assume not all units were able to have access to mess tents/ daily beers.  On a similar topic, what was the drinking policy on the tours in Cyprus and Bosnia? I remember hearing from some guys that at certain camps they were allowed 2 beers a night.
> 
> After some more thought on the subject/remembering more of the smokers I was in a few years ago, they were cool and informal(within reason) with certain parts of the CoC.  Are they required? Probably not(IMO) but still nice to have occasionally.



 Up until and including RV 92, every time we went to the field long enough that a bivouac was required, drinking messes were set up as well.  You could drink as much (or as little) beer as you could afford, as long as you could perform your duty the next day.  I recall very, very few problems.


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## Kat Stevens (21 Jul 2013)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> Edit: Whoops, misread what you meant, way off, no blanket parties, blanket as in all encompassing... but the point stands... stupid things happen when alcohol is involved... while you can deal with the individuals post-stupid, you can't un-do the stupid... even if it's only a few individuals among many, or even one individual among many, as per the "Strategic corporal" doctorine, we've got to remember, one person does something stupid, it comes back on all of us... it's just the risks you've got to be ready to take on if you're going to add alcohol... the vast majority of folks will act responsibly... but it only takes one to end up on the cover of a news paper...



The point was that we were several hundred kilometres away from anyone in the world who give enough of a shit to put us in the paper.  We worked hard, and we played hard, sometimes some eyes got blackened and a few noses got broken....a good many attitudes got much needed adjustment too.


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## McG (21 Jul 2013)

I have never been particularly inspired by the rum ration - mostly for the silly way in which I have seen the policy applied.  Everyone lines-up, signs for and receive the prescribed volume, drinks and goes away.  The smoker, on the other hand, is a great thing.  It allows for bonding and unwinding at mid or end exercise.

Perhaps it is time for the CFAO on the rum ration to be updated to the era of DAODs.  I believe the intent of the order is simply to identify the time and conditions for which the crown will cover the cost for a shot of alcohol, but I think it should be specifically expanded as rum and scotch rations.


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## Tow Tripod (21 Jul 2013)

Smokers were awesome when your 22 but now that I'm 43 I just want to leave the training area as soon as possible after any Exercise....


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## George Wallace (21 Jul 2013)

Tow Tripod said:
			
		

> Smokers were awesome when your 22 but now that I'm 43 I just want to leave the training area as soon as possible after any Exercise....



You are only as old as you are mentally......Hope you aren't feeling like you're 80?    >


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## my72jeep (21 Jul 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You are only as old as you are mentally......Hope you aren't feeling like you're 80?    >


Your only as old as the person your feeling.


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## Tow Tripod (21 Jul 2013)

43 in real life, 85 at work, 23 on vacation! That's the equation that is in current effect...


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## SprCForr (21 Jul 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I left 1 CER for Germany in '88, and at that time full on end ex smokers were still in full effect.  In 4 CMBG full service drinking messes were almost the first thing set up and last to come down.  On return to 1 CER in 92, the fun police had a pretty firm choke hold on anything involving alcohol, a shock to me as we never got that memo in 4 CER.



'92 until the summer was great (Dick/Tom era). Then came Carmen...


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## Kat Stevens (21 Jul 2013)

I came back that summer, after a little junket to Croatia with 4 CER where, by the way, the odd beer was known to be consumed.


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## OldSolduer (21 Jul 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I came back that summer, after a little junket to Croatia with 4 CER where, by the way, the odd beer was known to be consumed.



Same in 93. Then 1CMBG was commanded by a well known RCR General and all fun stopped, digging in commenced and "thou shalt wear issue kit only" orders started to appear.


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## Kat Stevens (22 Jul 2013)

*sidebar*  Anyone remember the 1 CMBG "J-J-J-Jimmy wants you" ego stroke poster from '94ish?  I was the AEV guy for it, they had us hanging out, all in issued gerar from head to toe, on High Butte for 4 hours waiting for his  Jimminess to show up.  When he did he was wearing Brit issued gloves, a Brit scarf, Belgian beret, and HiTec Magnum boots that none of us could ever hope to have.


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## X Royal (22 Jul 2013)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> On a similar topic, what was the drinking policy on the tours in Cyprus and Bosnia? I remember hearing from some guys that at certain camps they were allowed 2 beers a night.


In Cyprus in 89/90 there were no limits on numbers of drinks.
Many consumed in the rooms, messes and at local bars.
IIRC correctly in the mess a beer was .10 of a Cyp. pound (22 cents). No limits.
At the Canex 1.20 Cyp. pounds ($2.64) per 24 case. No limit on purchases.
A 40 was 1.80 Cyp. pounds. One per week per person.
Very few even bought close to one a week. Personally I bought 4 bottles over 6 months, and two were for my leave period and one to bring home.
Liquor store in the city also had Keo Pure alcohol (95%) quite cheap. 
A 12 oz draft at the bars was around 1 pound Cyp.
I did buy a fair amount of beer at all three sources.
Yes a few abused the drinks but most stayed out of trouble.


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## Danjanou (22 Jul 2013)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Same in 93. Then 1CMBG was commanded by a well known RCR General and all fun stopped, digging in commenced and "thou shalt wear issue kit only" orders started to appear.





			
				Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> *sidebar*  Anyone remember the 1 CMBG "J-J-J-Jimmy wants you" ego stroke poster from '94ish?  I was the AEV guy for it, they had us hanging out, all in issued gerar from head to toe, on High Butte for 4 hours waiting for his  Jimminess to show up.  When he did he was wearing Brit issued gloves, a Brit scarf, Belgian beret, and HiTec Magnum boots that none of us could ever hope to have.



Is there some form of army.ca version of Godwins Law in effect, that the longer a thread goes eventually a reference to the CFs Patron saint of socks will be referenced? 

As for smokers back in the day, I have no recollections, which probably means they were effective ones.   ;D


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## Old EO Tech (23 Jul 2013)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Is there some form of army.ca version of Godwins Law in effect, that the longer a thread goes eventually a reference to the CFs Patron saint of socks will be referenced?
> 
> As for smokers back in the day, I have no recollections, which probably means they were effective ones.   ;D



Well the generation that lived through that is slowly retiring....we have to pass on this experience to the new generation so it doesn't happen again


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## Danjanou (23 Jul 2013)

Old EO Tech said:
			
		

> Well the generation that lived through that is slowly retiring....we have to pass on this experience to the new generation so it doesn't happen again



Which experience the being allowed to have a beer in the boonies like a grown up, or standing sock inspections like a toddler?  ;D


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## Humphrey Bogart (30 Jul 2013)

I would personally love to see smokers in the field return.  My Coy was down in Arizona on Ex with the Marines a few years ago and for the whole month we were down there we had a smoker *every single night*.  The only rules were you had to be able to work the next day and you weren't allowed taking your booze back to the tent lines.  The bar, run by our CQ, was open from 6pm to 10pm and during that time you were free to drink however much beer you wished within reason.  We also fired up the BBQ and served hotdogs, sausages and hamburgers for anyone that wanted some.  

Prices for beer were $2 a can and it was a $1 for a hotdog or hamburger.  The CQ maintained a $100 float for everyone that had to be paid up by the end of the exercise.  At the end, we took all the money that was made and threw a huge Coy Smoker which was a really good time.  

My experience with Smokers has been really positive.  We all drank down in Arizona on that Ex and but nobody ever got ridiculous and we had some good control measures in place to ensure that the 1%'er's didn't get themselves in any trouble.  There were nights where I would put away 5 or 6 beers then go write some PER's or do BP in my tent which definitely allowed my creative juices to flow  ;D

I will also add that it was important for the morale of the Coy because this was the time the boys got to know their leadership and any problems or grievances could be talked about in a relaxed/low stress environment.  This to me is the true value of these smokers.  It allows you the opportunity to get to know the men and allows them the opportunity to get to know you a little bit more, this can only be of benefit when you are doing the business for real.  Soldiers are men and should be treated as such.

On another note, I stumbled over an interesting blog the other night about an American working with French soldiers in Afghanistan.  I thought his comments on the French being allowed to have alcohol overseas was interesting and I find myself agreeing with him that I see no harm in it.  Checkout the blog if you are interested http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013/07/09/working-with-the-french-army/


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## dimsum (30 Jul 2013)

Awesome article about the French Army, and pretty spot-on from the few conversations I had with their troops overseas.


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