# Medal and Awards Research



## gaspasser

Hi All, we are looking for a photo of the medal(s) we will be issued in CM for MSS.
I know it's the SWASM and some (KAF) get the campaign star.
Any help,
Cheers,


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## George Wallace

Google is your friend:

http://www.gg.ca/honours/medals/hon04-sw_e.asp

http://www.dnd.ca/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/med1_e.asp?cat=3


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## gaspasser

Thanks GW, I DID search for this on the site but got no joy.
Cheers,


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## PO2FinClk

DIN address: http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dhh/honours_awards/chart/engraph/chart_display_e.asp?cat=3&ref=SWASM&submit1=Go

Any clerk should of been able to answer this in less then 4 seconds.


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## kratz

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> DIN address: http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dhh/honours_awards/chart/engraph/chart_display_e.asp?cat=3&ref=SWASM&submit1=Go
> 
> Any clerk should of been able to answer this in less then 4 seconds.



Ok, so I was slow in answering. If this was a time test, I would have had it nailed.  ;D


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## gaspasser

Done, done and answered. Thanks all.
I resubmitted, got a reply of "a submission has already been made with that name".
Then where the heck is my medal??     :rage:
Waiting and waiting is not my forte.

mods can lock or delete, 
BYTD


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## Reccesoldier

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Done, done and answered. Thanks all.
> I resubmitted, got a reply of "a submission has already been made with that name".
> Then where the heck is my medal??     :rage:
> Waiting and waiting is not my forte.
> 
> mods can lock or delete,
> BYTD



I dislike seeing things like this pop up but on occasion mistakes are made both on our part at DH&R (Department of Honours and Recognition) and more often at the members unit. 

BYTD, PM incoming


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## PO2FinClk

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> I resubmitted, got a reply of "a submission has already been made with that name".
> Then where the heck is my medal??     :rage:
> Waiting and waiting is not my forte.


In either case it is far more then likely that it was ordered through an OR (either Theatre or your Unit), and they would be in measure of tracking it down.

It could even be sitting in some Cheif's office waiting for the next unit parade


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## Roy Harding

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> It  could even be sitting _*probably is*_ in some Cheif's office waiting for the next unit parade



Just a guess - based on past experience.

Roy


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## geo

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> In either case it is far more then likely that it was ordered through an OR (either Theatre or your Unit), and they would be in measure of tracking it down.
> 
> It could even be sitting in some Cheif's office waiting for the next unit parade



I think that byt dvr is talking about the Kuwaiti medal that he can receive but is not permitted to wear (cause the Cdn gov't has already issued one award for this operation).

Isn,t he supposed to apply directly to the Kuwaiti embassy in Ottawa?


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## gaspasser

Yes, I am.
Thanks for adding the clarification geo.

Edited to add:
And just to clarify even more.  I and my co-worker were looking for the SWASM.  I am still looking for my LKM on another thread.
Mods: you may lock this up.
BYTD


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## PO2FinClk

geo said:
			
		

> Isn,t he supposed to apply directly to the Kuwaiti embassy in Ottawa?


In that case yes.

DIN Link:http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dhh/honours_awards/instructions/engraph/lib_kuwait_instr_e.asp?cat=3


> The Embassy of the State of Kuwait has put in place a self-identification program whereby qualified recipients can apply for their medal. In an effort to assist with the process for serving members of the CF, qualified recipients are asked to provide DHH 4 with some basic information, which will be passed on to the Embassy. The medal will be sent directly from the Embassy to the address provided by the member.


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## gaspasser

PO2FinClk said:
			
		

> In that case yes.
> 
> DIN Link:http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dhh/honours_awards/instructions/engraph/lib_kuwait_instr_e.asp?cat=3


PO2.
Asked, answered and in another thread.


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## armyvern

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Just a guess - based on past experience.
> 
> Roy



And a pretty good guess at that Roy.

BYT,

8 Wg (gee where are you at??   ), especially the WLEO Branch, has a habit of saving them up for parades!! I got presented 4 of them there on one Parade along with something else too. 5 seperate trips to the dias at that. I think the whole of the Branch could impersonate my walk (and snorting-kind-of-laugh) by the end of the darn Parade.


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## Reccesoldier

BYT Driver said:
			
		

> Hi All, we are looking for a photo of the medal(s) we will be issued in CM for MSS.
> I know it's the SWASM and some (KAF) get the campaign star.
> Any help,
> Cheers,



Okay, what is CM and MSS?


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## Hedgehog18

Hey i am in search of information on the process of selling or donating WW2 army medals and pictures for my friends mother who would like to see the medals not lost after her father died any information would be greatly appreciated thank you


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## geo

Hmmm....
Medals are not / should not be sold at auction.

You might inquire about donating them to a military museum OR a local reserve unit's historical collection.  While they usually won't pay cash, they can provide a tax receipt based on some valuation.

Some of the local Legion branches might be able to point you in the right direction....


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## Reccesoldier

Medals are personal property and while I agree 100% with Geo that they should not be sold or auctioned there is no law in this country preventing it.  

A museum will probably accept the donation and a good collector will probably pay for them as well as keep a record of the medals provenance (history), the choice is up to the owner.  My personal feeling is that family is best.  

Make sure that your friends mother knows that she can give them to any member of the family it does not have to be the first born son or anything.  We had a WW2/post WW2 rack returned to DHH by a woman who claimed that she was returning them because she and her late husband had no son's and therefore no-one to pass them along to.  What a shame, they now sit in our vault and collect dust, almost forgotten.


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## geo

Reccesoldier said:
			
		

> We had a WW2/post WW2 rack returned to DHH by a woman who claimed that she was returning them because she and her late husband had no son's and therefore no-one to pass them along to.  What a shame, they now sit in our vault and collect dust, almost forgotten.


If you have the individual's pedigree, the medals & the soldier's history should be sent back to his unit for addition to their historical collection.


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## Hedgehog18

I'm sorry to all veterans if it seems like we are trying to get money shes wants her father remembered and she is more consered about honoring her father and making sure he is remembered than making money on it umm I'm living in Halifax if anyone can give me info on where we can donate them and the history of her father please help she has no intrest in selling them to anyone she just wants to make sure  that what her father did in WW2 wont be forgotten


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## Michael OLeary

If you could tell us who he served with, then someone will probably be able to provide contact information for the applicable service, branch, corps or regimental museum.


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## the 48th regulator

geo said:
			
		

> Hmmm....
> Medals are not / should not be sold at auction.
> 
> You might inquire about donating them to a military museum OR a local reserve unit's historical collection.  While they usually won't pay cash, they can provide a tax receipt based on some valuation.
> 
> Some of the local Legion branches might be able to point you in the right direction....



NOTE NOT A MODERATOR STATEMENT AND NOT AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY ARMY.CA

I do not agree with your statement;



> Medals are not / should not be sold at auction.



You deny the collector, who truly would honour these items, the right to do so.

We have talked about this time and time again.  Tell me a museum that would have the budget to display and preserve these items.  Selling them would offer a collector or a museum, with the budget, to care for them properly.

Don't let your passion of the military allow you to cloud the preservation of history.

dileas

tess


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## geo

Tess,

While I concurr with you that some private collectors being brought into the formula sounds good ... we end up with the situation where some of the medals of major military personas have left the country - gone for good so to speak... and that is a travesty in itself.... isn't it?


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## Michael OLeary

geo said:
			
		

> Tess,
> 
> While I concurr with you that some private collectors being brought into the formula sounds good ... we end up with the situation where some of the medals of major military personas have left the country - gone for good so to speak... and that is a travesty in itself.... isn't it?



And some medals also come back to the country through the actions of individual collectors.  Those medals which did leave the country did so only because those who could have prevented it for the reasons you might ascribe to be proper, failed to do so at the time.  How or why this happened in individual cases might vary, but an underlying cause is most likely the lack of our society's appreciation for historical artifacts at a widely understood individual level.  Without such a sense of social responsibility, medals go to the collector's market, to collectors who preserve and treasure that which a family no longer cares enough for to preserve, or to ensure its preservation in a museum or other institution.   As mentioned, collectors also preserve the memory of servicemen whose legacy might otherwise be a set of medals collecting dust in a storeroom, never to see the light of day again.  

There may be a travesty occuring, but it has not been wrought by the collectors.  And the greater travesty which has been avoided is the discarding of medals without "value" to uncaring descendants if collectors were prevented from acquiring them.

I would suggest that any objective analysis would show that it's too late to try and enact laws to outlaw their sale.  No doubt such a political manoeuvre would be as effective as the gun registry, and with even less social imperative to try and enforce it.


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## geo

Being so far from the last major conflict, you are probably correct that it is to late to do anything about it BUT
given that we are presently nominating many soldiers for medals of valour & gallantry, it might be time to at least talk about it....

But again - it's one's opinion -  I care for my grand dad's decorations -  and have a standing offer from the museum of the R22R to add them to their historical collection.


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## the 48th regulator

geo said:
			
		

> Being so far from the last major conflict, you are probably correct that it is to late to do anything about it BUT
> given that we are presently nominating many soldiers for medals of valour & gallantry, it might be time to at least talk about it....
> 
> But again - it's one's opinion -  I care for my grand dad's decorations -  and have a standing offer from the museum of the R22R to add them to their historical collection.



For sure a time to talk about it, however, as good the intensions are history has proven that most museum do not have the budget to care for such items.  It is a lot more than the actual purchase of the medals, but whether they have the space to display all of them.  Unfortunately, that is the true cost, and most articles lie in drawers of storage rooms.  A collector will put money from their own pocket to properly display and honour the awards.  The danger I see is that the honourable respect for our history, is going to stop collectors from doing just that, respect our history.

I laud you for respecting your Grand Dad's history by donating his medals, but the whim of the museum that receives them rests on budget and space, and they may either be displayed, stored, or down right sold off by them as well.

Just my opinion, based on experience.

dileas

tess


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## geo

As one of the "founders" and one of the origninal COs of the 22nd Bn CEF, the care of his medals is assured but, as you say, museums are limited in how many decorations they can display.  I guess that if they end up with hundreds of donations that all contain the usual WW2 campaign stars, Volunteer medal, Victory medal, CD (or ED/VD) then it's difficult to contemplate displaying them all


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## fraserdw

Only racks of historical interest should go to museums and this should be law.  Collectors are still the best preservers of such items but there should be laws prohibiting the breaking up of a rack or defacing any medals.


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## geo

fraserdw said:
			
		

> Only racks of historical interest should go to museums and this should be law.  Collectors are still the best preservers of such items but there should be laws prohibiting the breaking up of a rack or defacing any medals.


Breaking ANY rack would be a self defeating situation.  The whole is always more valuable than any one of it's parts.


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## Michael OLeary

Unfortunately, there are many broken medal groups out there.  Sometimes this was done when families shared out a loved one's medals so that each could have a permanent token of their memory.  To some, medals have far more value as shared treasures commemorating the memory of a loved one rather than just as a group of historical artifacts.  Many collectors spend years seeking to rebuild dispersed groups.


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## geo

Ahh... in that sense, I follow ya.

Very true.  In my case, I hung onto my granddad,s miniatures while the full rack went to the R22Rs Museum at La Citadelle.


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## John Nayduk

I know that tis threat is old but ... it's a good thing that people can sell medals because it gave me the chance to buy my uncles medals from an auction house.  I'm trying to get a photo and the medals of all my reletives who served.  Most are WW1 and WW2 vets but are all gone now.


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## geo

A bit of a shame that you had to buy them - don't you think.
If no one else in the family wanted em, it shoulda gone to you for safekeeping


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## John Nayduk

I agree but our family is so spread out across Canada.  My parents and their generation were close in the 30s and 40s but after the war they seemed to move on and ties were broken.  I know my first cousins but very little from any others.  Now that my Mom has passed on, there is no living link to that generation any more.  I have old photographs, names and in a few cases, old pay books.  I know that we had a relative who was at Hong Kong when it fell.  I can remember visiting him when I was a little guy and seeing the Japanese swords that he was given after being liberated.  Another is buried in Sicily.  I have the badges that were cut off his uniform before they buried him but I had to buy replacement medals for his frame.  I can research their service and what medals they would have earned but as the World War 2 medals were not named (unless there was a gallantry or long service award) I will have to buy medals that are on the market if I want full size medals for their frames.  I am still hunting my Great Uncle's World War 1 medals. He had served in all the big battles and was wounded three times. His last wife was a, shall we say unfriendly sort of person, and no one knows what ever happened to his medals.  So I keep hunting ebay and other auction houses in the hope that I find them.


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## Siovan

My Grandfather& my great uncle (died with no issue) both served in WWII and apparently never recieved their medals.  No-one has any recollection in the family of either man having had medals.  My grandfather is buried in the soldiers plot at Westlawn Memorial gardens in Edmonton.  We do have his discharge papers, his name was Willard Sikstrom, we do know that he served overseas in the occupational forces.  My Great Uncle Harry (Willard's brother) served here in canada training pilots for overseas, however we do not have copies of his discharge papers.  Sadly both men passed away in their 40's (Willard from a heart attack at 42 and Harry at 47 in a car wreck).  Is there a way to track down wether these men recieved medals or how to get my hands on them or even copies of the medals.


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## John Nayduk

Here's a good place to start.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhr-ddhr/eng/app_home_e.asp


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## Siovan

Many thanks and I'll let you know how the seach goes


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## rmc_wannabe

So, odd question. How would I go about returning medals to the member's ancestors? 

I recently came into possession of my Great Grandfather's WW1 Medals, but in addition to his BWM and VM, there are 2 additional medals (a 1914 Star and a weird medal I'venever seen before) that do no share his name, regimental numbers or unit. 

I honestly have no clue how he came into possession of these medals but I'd like to give them back to the rightful owner's ancestors.

any guidance?


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## Blackadder1916

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> . . .  there are 2 additional medals (a 1914 Star and *a weird medal I'venever seen before*) that do no share his name, regimental numbers or unit.



Are the additional medals named?  Do you have a photo of the "weird" medal or can you describe it and its ribbon?


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## rmc_wannabe

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Are the additional medals named?  Do you have a photo of the "weird" medal or can you describe it and its ribbon?



Yes they are both stamped with Rank, name, regimental Numbers and units. 

As for the "weird" medal; negative on the ribbon (I think it might have fallen off in the past ninety years....I can't remember this one having a ribbon), but the medal itself has pictures of various armour and weapons on the face and "For Good Behaviour and Conduct" enscribed on the back. No idea what this medal could be, any ideas? I've never seen it before in any of the medal charts i've looked at for this era.


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## Michael OLeary

Is it this medal?

Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal







What is the full naming on the medal?

This forum can also help you research it - http://www.britishmedalforum.com//


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## rmc_wannabe

Thats the one! Pte. Walker J 42ndFoot 628 (I think, will confirm later). Thats awesome to know. Thanks.


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## Blackadder1916

rmc_wannabe said:
			
		

> Yes they are both stamped with Rank, name, regimental Numbers and units.
> . . .  I've never seen it before in any of the medal charts i've looked at *for this era*.



You may have missed it because the version you have pre-dates the WW1 era.

Some additional info about it. http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/ls_and_gc.htm


> Army Long Service & Good Conduct Medal
> 
> The Army Long Service & Good Conduct medal *was instituted in 1830*. The medal is made from silver and is 36 millimetres in diameter. *The medal's ribbon was plain crimson until 1917 when white stripes were added to both edges.* As can be imaged, a medal introduced in 1830 has undergone a number of changes. *Until 1901 the medal's obverse contained an image of a trophy of arms*  with the royal arms in an oval shield in the centre while the reverse side contained the inscription "For Long Service and Good Conduct".
> 
> The King William IV issue had the royal coat of arms with the badge of Hanover on the obverse and a small suspension ring with a plain crimson ribbon. The small ring was replaced by a larger version in 1831.
> 
> When Queen Victoria succeeded to the throne in 1837, the Hanover emblem was dropped from the medal's obverse. In 1855 a swivelling scroll suspension was introduced, followed in 1874 by small lettering replacing the original large lettering on the reverse side.
> 
> *In 1901, with the succession of King Edward VI to the throne, the effigy of the reigning sovereign was placed on the medal's obverse. The reverse side remained unchanged.*
> 
> In 1920 the swivelling scroll suspension was replaced by a fixed suspender.
> 
> In 1930 the title of the medals was changed to the Long Service and Good Conduct (Military) Medal. It was also decided to add a fixed suspension bar bearing the text "Regular Army" or the name of a dominion country: Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India or South Africa.
> 
> The medal was originally awarded to soldiers of good conduct who had completed 21 years service in the infantry or 24 years in the cavalry. In 1870, this qualifying period was reduced to 18 years for both the infantry and cavalry. During the Second World War, officers could also be awarded this medal if they had completed at least 12 of the 18 years in the ranks. In 1940 clasps for further periods of service were introduced.
> 
> The vast majority of LS&GC medals are issued named to the recipient, with the name on the rim around the medal


.


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## Oil Can

Here is another link you maybe interested in?

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=help/generalfaq


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## 2551

I recently came across a reference to their being a "scale of issue" for decorations.  There was not much info, other than that it was based in part on the number of troops involved.

Does anyone have more information about this?

Thanks.


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## Michael OLeary

2551 said:
			
		

> I recently came across a reference to their being a "scale of issue" for decorations.  There was not much info, other than that it was based in part on the number of troops involved.
> 
> Does anyone have more information about this?
> 
> Thanks.



Can you provide a country and a time period for the reference?


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## Old Sweat

Mike,

I have seen passing references, all anecdotal, to quotas in the British Commonwealth forces in the Second World War, but have yet to see what I would term a valid primary source. A couple of examples:

a. Bravely into Battle by JL Moulton (sp?). This was a wartime account by the CO of 48 Commando, RM. He mentioned in passing that decorations were made available for various operations. He added there never were enough to recognize everyone who deserved one and he used to keep a private list. My observation is that this suggests that some citations may have been manufactured or embellished, but I have no proof.

b. I read many years ago that at the start of the war the three British services sat down to determine how the gongs were going to be allocated. (Comment: this means that someone had established a policy for decorations.) The RAF managed to sell the idea that it should be based on the proportion between the strengths of the three services. As aircrew formed a very small proportion of the overall air force numbers, this meant that aircrew stood a better chance of receiving a decoration that the fighting members of the other services. Again, I am quoting from memory of something I read at sometime in the past.


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## Old Sweat

Further to the above, I discussed the system for awards Hugh Halliday, who was researched the subject as it applies to Second World War Commonwealth air forces.

The system in place was delegated to commands and stations and based on awarding one decoration (DSO or DFC for officers and a CGM or DFM for other ranks) per designated number of hours flown per month by aircraft from that command or station. The system also became more liberal as far as Bomber Command was concerned. Anyway, Hugh cited two examples. In the first, Bomber Command had a figure of one decoration per 125 flying hours. Thus if bombers from station A flew 1250 operational hours in a month, then that station could nominate ten individuals for a decoration. Station commanders were encouraged to spread the awards among officers and other ranks and to various members of crews and not just pilots. Just like the army, the nominees had to be alive when recommended and during the time of consideration. If a nominee was killed before the award was approved, then the recommendation was cancelled. 

The only other command he mentioned was Coastal Command. In this case the quota was one decoration per 500 hours. As anti-shipping squadrons had much higher casualties than anti-submarine patrol squadrons, it was not unknown for the figure for the former to be lowered to 500 hours from time to time.


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## Servicepub

2551 said:
			
		

> I recently came across a reference to their being a "scale of issue" for decorations.  There was not much info, other than that it was based in part on the number of troops involved.
> 
> Does anyone have more information about this?
> 
> Thanks.


This CMHQ report from 1944 may be of interest to you. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/rep-rap/doc/cmhq/cmhq112.pdf


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## ftsmith

How long after the medal(s) awarded to a soldier can said medal(s) be claimed by a relative?

or

If a medal is not claimed, how much time elapses before medal is destroyed?

Example: If a Boer War medal was never claimed...

Thx.


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## Old Sweat

In this thread we have been discussing awards for gallantry or good service. Medals awarded for awar or campaign are a different matter. 

Do you have a specific example in mind?


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## ftsmith

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Do you have a specific example in mind?




I guess it would be for a service medal with an inscription of the soldier's name.


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## Blackadder1916

ftsmith said:
			
		

> How long after the medal(s) awarded to a soldier can said medal(s) be claimed by a relative?
> 
> or
> 
> If a medal is not claimed, how much time elapses before medal is destroyed?
> 
> Example: If a Boer War medal was never claimed...



The medal for the Boer War is the Queen's South Africa Medal.

No reference is made to continued administration of honours and awards for the Boer War on any of the sites of the agencies responsible for such; however, they continue to administer awards for WW1.

The following should direct you to someone who can assist if you're attempting to claim an ancestor's medal or answer your question if it is only hypothetical.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/nhs-sdh/index-eng.asp
Questions on the administration of war and campaign honours for veterans of the First and Second World Wars and the Korean Conflict (less the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal for Korea, which is managed by the Chancellery) may be addressed to Veterans Affairs Canada, Honours and Awards Section.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/medals/infomedals
Medals (WW1, WW2, Korea): Army, Navy, RCAF:

Veterans Affairs Canada
Honours & Awards Section
Room 1711, 66 Slater Street 
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0P4
Telephone:
Local:995-5003
Toll Free:1-877-995-5003
Fax: 1-613-947-3844


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## Hammer Sandwich

Some necro-madness...here, (Thanks to the Mods for sticky status).

I'm sitting here, looking at my Grandpa's, (well, I guess my Grandma's), Widow's cross.
It's the make with the EIIR in the middle.

The website, VA/Canada Remembers/....etc.....lists three different "Widow's Medals", all differentiating slightly, with no explanation of the differences.

I'm assuming that the different Crosses are for different periods of service?

My other question is, whom (specifically, if anyone knows), would I go to for paperwork regarding my Grandma's Cross?

Edit.....Shit, I just noticed the *9* lines of contact information Blackadder has at the bottom of the previous post. Some people are as dumb as they look...I am them.


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## armyvern

Hammer Sandwich said:
			
		

> Some necro-madness...here, (Thanks to the Mods for sticky status).
> 
> I'm sitting here, looking at my Grandpa's, (well, I guess my Grandma's), Widow's cross.
> It's the make with the EIIR in the middle.
> 
> The website, VA/Canada Remembers/....etc.....lists three different "Widow's Medals", all differentiating slightly, with no explanation of the differences.
> 
> *I'm assuming that the different Crosses are for different periods of service?*
> 
> My other question is, whom (specifically, if anyone knows), would I go to for paperwork regarding my Grandma's Cross?



Exactly ...

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lfwa-dsg/mc.asp



> Marking (Cypher)          Commemorating the Dead of     Year Created           Number Awarded
> Memorial Cross GR V               The Great War                     1919                              58,500
> Memorial Cross GR VI                   WWII                              1940                              32,500
> Memorial Cross EIIR             The Korean War                       1950                               500


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## Hammer Sandwich

Goddamn, you're good, ArmyVern....max Mil's for you!

But, I'm still thinking about contacting VC about the medal itself....(just for clarification).

I'm going through the transcripts I have right now, and my Grandpa's ticket home was by grenade near Vlijen, Holland....looks like fall of 1944.

But Grandpa's _first_ wounding I'm sure was France, in summer 1941....(I just wish the stuff I have was a little better organized).

But I digress....

My Grandpa was finished by 1945....,and lived until 2006 and Grandma was awarded the "EIRR" Cross in 2007.

There was no "Sgt. Peter Worobec" serving in Korea.

This is what totally befuddles me.


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## armyvern

That site has some good links on it; there's one to an online forum etc.


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## Hammer Sandwich

Thanks, ArmyVern, I'll check the forums out.

Much appreciated.

HS


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## armyvern

Hammer Sandwich said:
			
		

> Goddamn, you're good, ArmyVern....max Mil's for you!
> 
> But, I'm still thinking about contacting VC about the medal itself....(just for clarification).
> 
> I'm going through the transcripts I have right now, and my Grandpa's ticket home was by grenade near Vlijen, Holland....looks like fall of 1944.
> 
> But Grandpa's _first_ wounding I'm sure was France, in summer 1941....(I just wish the stuff I have was a little better organized).
> 
> But I digress....
> 
> My Grandpa was finished by 1945....,and lived until 2006 and Grandma was awarded the "EIRR" Cross in 2007.
> 
> There was no "Sgt. Peter Worobec" serving in Korea.
> 
> This is what totally befuddles me.



The memorial Cross is not awarded for "wounds", but rather is awarded for KIA.

EIIR means: HRH Queen Elizabeth II

GR V means: King George V

And King George VI.

It is ciphered based upon the Monarch at the time of the War, for WWII, that was George VI. But, HRH came to the throne in 1952 and the ciphre would have changed to hers at that point in time and will remain in effect until her death.

I wasn't aware that they were awarded for deaths occuring after the War ... but perhaps the case is that your grandfather's death was ruled to be caused by the injuries he sustained in that War??


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## Hammer Sandwich

[quote 
I wasn't aware that they were awarded for deaths occuring after the War ... but perhaps the case is that your grandfather's death was ruled to be caused by the injuries he sustained in that War??
[/quote]

Exactly the case....only 60 yrs later.


I'm in no way out to disrespect my Grandpa,  or his memory, or the fellas he served with, but in light of what I've been reading "RE:  Current Veteran's Affairs", I'm getting a bit confused.

I'm starting to get _more than a little _ P.O.'d about the Guys & Gals coming back 7 shades of F>cked up, with less support than I have seen for my Grandpa....

but that's for another thread.


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## 2010newbie

My girlfriend has obtained her grandfather's service medals from WW2 and there was a Canadian General Service pin in the box as well. On the back there is a 6 digit serial number and I was wondering if this is his service number. In some articles I've found they state this number correlates to release/discharge paperwork, but they weren't clear. Anyone know if this is supposed to be the member's service number?

Thanks.


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## medicineman

Yes - it's the service or regimental number.

MM


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## Michael OLeary

2010newbie said:
			
		

> My girlfriend has obtained her grandfather's service medals from WW2 and there was a Canadian General Service pin in the box as well. On the back there is a 6 digit serial number and I was wondering if this is his service number. In some articles I've found they state this number correlates to release/discharge paperwork, but they weren't clear. Anyone know if this is supposed to be the member's service number?
> 
> Thanks.



No. it is not the member's service number.  The pins were individually numbered, and the soldier's discharge papers would note what number pin he was issued.


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## 2010newbie

That's great, thanks.


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## Dennis Ruhl

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I wasn't aware that they were awarded for deaths occuring after the War ... but perhaps the case is that your grandfather's death was ruled to be caused by the injuries he sustained in that War??



The website doesn't explain WWII conditions but I suspect it relates to death from a pensionable injury.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/mainmenu/group09



> The changes will affect Veterans of the Korean War and Veterans with Special Duty Area service from 1950 to October 6, 2001 who were living as of December 12, 2008. As of this date, these Veterans can now designate any two individuals to receive a Memorial Cross in the event their subsequent death is ruled to be as a result of a pensioned condition from this service.



When someone outlives the vast majority of his peers things get strange.


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## medicineman

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> No. it is not the member's service number.  The pins were individually numbered, and the soldier's discharge papers would note what number pin he was issued.



I stand corrected - thought he was talking of the medals.

MM


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## sarawillington

sorry Ihave no photos of that ....


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