# "You get stuck in Iraq..."



## Blakey (31 Oct 2006)

What an idiot...
Story
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/31/kerry.mccain/index.html


> WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Republicans unleashed a firestorm of criticism Tuesday against Sen. John Kerry after the Vietnam veteran told college students they'd "get stuck in Iraq" if they didn't work hard in school.


Video> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o&eurl=

EDIT: What the blogs are saying
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/31/kerry-responds-to-right-wing-chickenhawk-nut-jobs/
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/


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## Blakey (31 Oct 2006)

Watch his respone on the hot air blog..... : 
Everyone but he is reponsible for his remarks but him....


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## Trinity (31 Oct 2006)

Try being a public figure ..... or person of interest (like chaplain)

everything you say... gets scrutinized.. especially jokes... taken
out of context and used against you for other people's personal 
agenda.  I've had the same happen to me and it's my fault for
being stupid enough to speak up.

Sure, he should refrain from saying it.. but he's also human.

Public figures have to walk an almost perfect line compared
to you or I.  (still... i guess thats the job right or wrong)


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## Blakey (31 Oct 2006)

So you are defending him?
Edit: Jack Layton is human as well...

EDIT: Padre, I watched the video, as well as I'm sure millions of other people have; what the Kerry people are saying "that it was a botched joke" is somewhat unbelievable. 

Public figures are held to a higher morale code, it goes with the territory but, if your not ready to pony up to the bar and cough up an apology and accept the fact that you were wrong, its time to get out of the business. 

He is just deflecting all of the criticism and blaming everyone else for words that came out of his mouth.

That's my take on it.


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## Mithras (31 Oct 2006)

Jack Layton suffers from foot-in-mouthitis which results in him continually making idiotic statements. John Kerry, from what I have seen/read/heard, seems to be a little bit more thoughtful so he may deserve some pity.

This seems like such a minor thing compared to what some of his (Kerry's) peers have done recently.. but I guess the GOP needed something to beat the Democrats over the head with.


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## Blakey (31 Oct 2006)

Mithras said:
			
		

> Jack Layton suffers from foot-in-mouthitis which results in him continually making idiotic statements. John Kerry, from what I have seen/read/heard, seems to be a little bit more thoughtful so he may deserve some pity.
> 
> This seems like such a minor thing compared to what some of his (Kerry's) peers have done recently.. but I guess the GOP needed something to beat the Democrats over the head with.


See here > http://www.thepoliticalpitbull.com/2006/10/video_some_things_never_change.php


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## Mithras (31 Oct 2006)

Well to be fair PB&J I could make a similar video of almost any politician, and to me, it did seem like he was trying to make a joke (as lame as it was).  That being said, I will agree with you that insinuating that servicemen and women are uneducated or are in the military because of a lack of education, was idiotic.


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## Blakey (31 Oct 2006)

^^Roger, I agree, it was idiotic.


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## paracowboy (31 Oct 2006)

Kerry, Sharkman of the Delta :


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## Blakey (31 Oct 2006)

^^ Are you trying to "insinuate" that he wasn't a SEAL???


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## tomahawk6 (31 Oct 2006)

John Kerry wasnt a SEAL. The democrats are no doubt quite angry with Kerry for this comment. For the past few weeks their leftist leaders have been laying low and there has been no mention of Iraq.You would think if the dem's think the war is their key issue you would think they would bang that drum right up til the time the polls open on Tuesday. The fact is the war isnt as unpopular as the dem's and their comrades in the media want everyone to think. I suspect that next week after the dust has settled the republicans will have sizeable majorities which will send a powerful message to our enemies.


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## Blakey (31 Oct 2006)

That was my attempt at humour..... 
"Cpl Bloggins, I find your attempt at humour inefective for the following reasions...."


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## paracowboy (31 Oct 2006)

PB&J said:
			
		

> "Cpl Bloggins, I find your attempt at humour inefective for the following reasions...."


para-poo snickering in the corner


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## spud (1 Nov 2006)

<streeeetchhhh>  That's me sticking my neck out. From what I have read and saw, John Kerry is still considered a war hero. Swiftboat controversy aside, if nothing else, he had the guts to serve when many others didn't don't, including the US Commander in Chief. 

For that itself, in my books, he gets a free pass.

Much like our own guys/gals who are "over there"; IMHO, when they come back they can say what they want..when they want...however they want...because they earned it. 

Jack Layton on the other hand gets the stool in the corner. 

Just my $0.02
potato


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## DBA (1 Nov 2006)

The story of the comment itself would have blown over pretty quickly had he not come out guns blazing in response to criticism of it. Now his inept response is itself a story making it drag on even longer. He sure must love the Bush administration because he just handed them majorities in both the Senate and the House of Representatives in the coming mid term elections.


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## Mithras (1 Nov 2006)

I think it is going to take more than this gaffe to turn things around for Bush and co. this time.  Sure the GOP will be using this to drum up some support but I doubt that they will get much mileage from it.


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## spud (1 Nov 2006)

Mithras said:
			
		

> I think it is going to take more than this gaffe to turn things around for Bush and co. this time.



Yes, if government swung that much based on foot-in-the-mouth problems we would have hourly changes in government.....our own included. 


potato


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## sigpig (1 Nov 2006)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I suspect that next week after the dust has settled the republicans will have sizeable majorities which will send a powerful message to our enemies.



Sizeable majorities?     

As Bill Maher said on Friday night:
"And...and we also had a little thing called the Bill of Rights. A great nation doesn't torture people or make them disappear without a trial. Bush keeps saying the terrorists hate us for our freedom. And he's working damn hard to see that pretty soon that won't be a problem."


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## spud (1 Nov 2006)

sigpig said:
			
		

> Sizeable majorities?
> 
> As Bill Maher said on Friday night:
> "And...and we also had a little thing called the Bill of Rights. A great nation doesn't torture people or make them disappear without a trial. Bush keeps saying the terrorists hate us for our freedom. And he's working damn hard to see that pretty soon that won't be a problem."



    We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly.
    —Bill Maher, Politically Incorrect (2001)

Ya, I put a lot of stock in what Bill Maher says. Not.

potato


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## Brad Sallows (1 Nov 2006)

>That's me sticking my neck out. From what I have read and saw, John Kerry is still considered a war hero. Swiftboat controversy aside, if nothing else, he had the guts to serve when many others didn't don't, including the US Commander in Chief. 

As I remember it being presented during the election, Kerry requested swift boat duty at a time when the swift boats weren't doing very much and he was languishing as an undistinguished junior officer on a frigate.

"I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

Shortly after his transfer, swift boat duty became much more interesting.  When he received his third qualifying wound, the "war hero" took advantage of the policy allowing him to request a non-combat assignment.  That would be in contrast to the non-war hero people who get wounded and do whatever they can to return to their units.

Bush did allegedly inquire into the possibility of active service in Vietnam but was turned down (wrong plane, insufficient hours).


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## tomahawk6 (1 Nov 2006)

sigpig said:
			
		

> Sizeable majorities?
> 
> As Bill Maher said on Friday night:
> "And...and we also had a little thing called the Bill of Rights. A great nation doesn't torture people or make them disappear without a trial. Bush keeps saying the terrorists hate us for our freedom. And he's working damn hard to see that pretty soon that won't be a problem."



Quoting Maher makes you seem like one of the democrat nutroots. This is a war. Terrorists are being treated like we would a POW. They are removed from the fight until their disposition is decided by a military tribunal. Second terrorists have information that may save lives. Many terrorists give up information without much encouragement. Then there are the hard cases who have the blood of hundreds on their hands those guys wont give up their secrets without duress. This is where waterboarding comes in. Most give up their information in a minute or so of this treatment.This information has saved lives.

As for Maher's freedom comment if we dont deal with these jihadists we wont be enjoying our freedom. Look at Europe. Increasingly radical muslim's are demanding to have sharia law and violently object to the practice of freedoms enjoyed by majorities. We are seeing the first stages of the minority attempting to force the majority to bow to their wishes.


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## tomahawk6 (1 Nov 2006)

By the way some guardsmen from Minnesora's 34th Division have a message for Kerry.


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## paracowboy (1 Nov 2006)

never mind. Too many windows open, not enough brain cells engaged. :-[


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## Yrys (2 Nov 2006)

Embattled Kerry seeks low profile

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6105004.stm

Former US presidential candidate John Kerry has cancelled 
plans to help other Democrats ahead of key polls next week, 
amid a row over remarks about troops.

Sidenote:

The members of the United States military are _plenty smart _
and they are _plenty brave_ and the senator from Massachusetts 
owes them an apology," Mr Bush said.

Is it just me (I'm a francophone) or Mr.Bush could have use 
a better english on that one?


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## Journeyman (2 Nov 2006)

Yrys said:
			
		

> The members of the United States military are _plenty smart _ and they are _plenty brave_ and the senator from Massachusetts
> owes them an apology," Mr Bush said.
> 
> Is it just me (I'm a francophone) or Mr.Bush could have use a better english on that one?



George W doesn't speak English; he's from TEXAS     (so he's actually doing quite well   ;D  )


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## KevinB (2 Nov 2006)

Grammar and GW dont get along...


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## ProPatria Mike (2 Nov 2006)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Quoting Maher makes you seem like one of the democrat nutroots. This is a war. Terrorists are being treated like we would a POW. They are removed from the fight until their disposition is decided by a military tribunal. Second terrorists have information that may save lives. Many terrorists give up information without much encouragement. Then there are the hard cases who have the blood of hundreds on their hands those guys wont give up their secrets without duress. This is where waterboarding comes in. Most give up their information in a minute or so of this treatment.This information has saved lives.
> 
> How do you know this information has saved lives?
> 
> ...


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## Blakey (2 Nov 2006)

> Former US presidential candidate John Kerry has cancelled
> plans to help other Democrats ahead of key polls next week,



He knows he's FUBAR'd, he won't go within a country mile of any other democratic hopefull, either that or they have told him not to bother. In any case....*STICK A FORK IN HIM!*


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## Zell_Dietrich (2 Nov 2006)

Mithras said:
			
		

> I think it is going to take more than this gaffe to turn things around for Bush and co. this time.  Sure the GOP will be using this to drum up some support but I doubt that they will get much mileage from it.


 
Well in NJ they just had a court ruling that same sex couples can get the same benefits married couples. *gasp* (This was the same issue the Republicans won with last time) (interesting,  they are against gay marrage, but all for senators... young interns ... what why are you looking at me like that?  Too soon?)

On a fun side http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r87-IJAKOHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imXnwoTHxvg
He forgot one word in a joke and changed how it could be interpreted  I love the cnn spin.  :warstory:


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## gnome123 (2 Nov 2006)

It is amusing of how draft dodgers (Bush) are using this to get up in the polls against someone who actually served (Kerry).


Politics are vicious. Reminds me of highschool


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## sigpig (2 Nov 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly.
> —Bill Maher, Politically Incorrect (2001)
> 
> Ya, I put a lot of stock in what Bill Maher says. Not.
> ...



He was fired from his show for that quote and I believe he apologized for it afterward. 

And watching Bill on a regular basis, on both tv and the net, I do put a lot of stock in what he says.


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## sigpig (2 Nov 2006)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Quoting Maher makes you seem like one of the democrat nutroots.



That would be me. As opposed to those who seem to be happy watching Bush and Co turn the US into a fascist theocracy.

[quote author=tomahawk6]
 This is a war. Terrorists are being treated like we would a POW. They are removed from the fight until their disposition is decided by a military tribunal. Second terrorists have information that may save lives.[/quote]

Yes, I'm sure a lot of those Afghani taliban types swept up five years ago for standing in the wrong place have lots of vital information for current activities.


[quote author=tomahawk6]
As for Maher's freedom comment if we dont deal with these jihadists we wont be enjoying our freedom. Look at Europe. Increasingly radical muslim's are demanding to have sharia law and violently object to the practice of freedoms enjoyed by majorities. We are seeing the first stages of the minority attempting to force the majority to bow to their wishes.[/quote]

What has dealing with people in Afghanistan/Iraq got to do with how western democracies deal with the muslims living amongst them? No, I don't want muslims taking over western countries who are too afraid to just say no to them. I'm an atheist for dogs sake, so I despise the idea of those secular states being hijacked by someones religious agenda. But does that make it right to beat the hell out of the people in Afghanistan/Iraq?


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## sigpig (2 Nov 2006)

Brad Sallows said:
			
		

> When he received his third qualifying wound, the "war hero" took advantage of the policy allowing him to request a non-combat assignment.



So how many wounds would it take for you to approve someone requesting a non-combat assignment? Five? Ten? I think many reasonable people would say to themselves after three wounds, "You know, I think that's enough and I don't think I need to try for four. Time to let someone else have a go at it."


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## spud (2 Nov 2006)

sigpig said:
			
		

> And watching Bill on a regular basis, on both tv and the net, I do put a lot of stock in what he says.



    But I've often said that if I had — I have two dogs — if I had two retarded children, I'd be a hero. And yet the dogs, which are pretty much the same thing. What? They're sweet. They're loving. They're kind, but they don't mentally advance at all.... Dogs are like retarded children.

    —Bill Maher, Politically Incorrect (2001)

He's certainly known for presenting blanaced and insightful commentary :. However if you choose to form your opinions based on the ramblings of a pop culture figure that is your business. 

potato


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## sigpig (2 Nov 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> However if you choose to form your opinions based on the ramblings of a pop culture figure that is your business.
> 
> potato



Yes it is. However I never saw the Politically Correct show, nor do I research quotes from it. I am referring to his comments from his current Real Time show on HBO that I've been watching for the last year or so.


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## spud (2 Nov 2006)

sigpig said:
			
		

> Yes it is. However I never saw the Politically Correct show, nor do I research quotes from it. I am referring to his comments from his current Real Time show on HBO that I've been watching for the last year or so.



Nor do I, I had heard them previously and simply copied them from the web to make sure I got them right.  FWIW, I'm not going to engage in a 15 post flame war just because you listen to Bill Maher and I don't, that's silly. We're obviously not going to see eye-to-eye on this! Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. 

BTW, I see you're in Florida, hope you're having nice weather. 

potato


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## sigpig (2 Nov 2006)

spud said:
			
		

> BTW, I see you're in Florida, hope you're having nice weather.
> 
> potato



Actually it's been unusually warm lately. I've only had to put the liner of my motorcycle jacket in for two mornings so far. But it gets better in Dec - Mar when the humidity calms down and we can actually enjoy being outside instead of enduring it  

I do miss snow. At least looking at it. I don't miss that shovelling and driving in it...


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## tomahawk6 (2 Nov 2006)

If the US were a fascist theocracy you would be on your way to Gitmo. ;D


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## sigpig (2 Nov 2006)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> If the US were a fascist theocracy you would be on your way to Gitmo. ;D



I'm sure I'm on a guest list somewhere.


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## Brad Sallows (2 Nov 2006)

>When he received his third qualifying wound, the "war hero" took advantage of the policy allowing him to request a non-combat assignment.

>So how many wounds would it take for you to approve someone requesting a non-combat assignment? Five? Ten?

That's not the point.  Read carefully: I raised no question at all about the merits of the policy.  (And three is plenty.)

>I think many reasonable people would say to themselves after three wounds, "You know, I think that's enough and I don't think I need to try for four. Time to let someone else have a go at it."

A reasonable person doesn't want to risk the first wound.  Still, there are people who keep going back.  The point is that Kerry did not go out of his way to find a combat assignment, did in fact seek what he thought would be a "swan" assignment, and then did take a way out when one presented.  If most other people would also take the same way out, it simply means that he took the average and reasonable course.


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## a_majoor (3 Nov 2006)

Some clever Minnisota National Guardsmenhad this to say about being stuck in Iraq (picture posted at end)

http://canadiangovernment.blogspot.com/2006/11/us-troops-mock-kerrys-gaffe.html



> *US troops mock Kerry's gaffe*
> By Jason
> 
> Straight from Nasiriya, Iraq to the internet and even the cover of the New York Post comes this humourous response to John Kerry's comment that students who don't work hard will get "stuck in Iraq".
> ...



While Kerry was actually in the Navy, I think we get the poster's point, and I know there are segments in our society which feel that way (although a vocal minority so far).


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## Bobbyoreo (3 Nov 2006)

I have buddies in that NG unit. I've been trying to get in contact to see if any of them are involved with that picture. Good on them for laughing it off and taking that picture so fast!! I think its great!!!


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## cplcaldwell (3 Nov 2006)

I was just reading the Globe at lunch (what can I say there were no Jughead comics around...) anyhow, the gist of it seems to be that Kerry meant 

if you don't go to school you don't get smart, 
if you're not smart you do dumb things, 
like get stuck in a quagmire like Iraq.

So it was all _(supposed)_ to be aimed at the President, not the average GI.

Hmmm ...

Wonder who rights his material?

0.02, stupid comment that demeans the 'American soldier', I don't think it's a good mission but I _do_ think the 'American soldier' is doing a magnificent job, as usual. Shame on John Kerry. Sailing a bit close to the wind to make a gratuitous point on the backs of patriots.

I propose a poll, "Is John Kerry an asshat?"


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## Brad Sallows (3 Nov 2006)

I've never misspoken what I meant to say without immediately correcting myself.  I've observed that speakers do the same thing except for trivial mispronunciations.  I really don't understand why Kerry didn't correct himself immediately if what he said wasn't what he meant.


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