# Next AirNav course



## tree hugger (18 Aug 2004)

Does anyone know when the next basic airnav course starts?  I'm thinking that there must be one starting on Sep/Oct....


----------



## jutes85 (18 Aug 2004)

I'd like to know when ANY of the Air Force Trades start.  ???


----------



## Zoomie (18 Aug 2004)

tree hugger said:
			
		

> I'm thinking that there must be one starting on Sep/Oct....



You are correct in your assumption.  We have a 2Lt at 407 that is waiting for his late Sept course, while another 2Lt is waiting for a November course.  Keep in mind that these pers have been waiting since they graduated from RMC in May.


----------



## Spr.Earl (18 Aug 2004)

Just a question for Zoomie.
Do they still teach Celestial Nav.?


----------



## tree hugger (18 Aug 2004)

They offer the same course 2 mo apart?


----------



## Inch (18 Aug 2004)

They don't teach it to pilots (Celestial Nav). We've got GPS on most aircraft and some other stuff, it depends on the aircraft.   On Sea Kings we've got radar to find the ship as well as having a TACAN on the ship too, centre the needle and away you go.

Pilot courses are offered every 5 weeks or so. I'm sure CFANS runs courses the same way. Air Force courses aren't like Army courses in that we don't load 60 guys on one course, we run multiple courses. 

Cheers


----------



## Spr.Earl (18 Aug 2004)

So what happens when the Radar etc goes down?
Send up a flare?  ;D
They talk you back?

The reason I ask is I'm a Ex Merchant Seaman and one Ship I was on the Old Man (a Norskie) made the 2nd Mate shoot the sun at noon and shoot Venus in the am because his reasoning being was"What if all fails where will we be?"


----------



## Inch (18 Aug 2004)

About the only way we'd be hooped is if we lost all electrical including radios, there's stuff like VHF direction finding (VDF), you talk on the radio and they get a bearing to you, they tell you the heading and you fly the heading towards them. Over land, we'd just land near a house and use their phone if we lost all electrics.  In a Jet Ranger, losing electrics signals the start of a very bad day since the fuel boost pumps are electric, the red page (emergency checklist) calls for immediate landing.  Electrical systems are pretty redundant though in the bigger aircraft with backup batteries and such, so if you lose it all, you've probably got bigger things to worry about. 

Cheers


----------



## Spr.Earl (18 Aug 2004)

I have played with the old VHF direction finder when at sea,all manual back then turning the antenna by hand trying to get a bearing off of light house's or bouy's,all by hand. ;D
Oooops dating my self now. ;D

Thanks for the info.


----------



## Inch (18 Aug 2004)

Are you telling me you're 1960's technology?  We still have to do that with the ADF (Automatic direction finder, AM band basically) in the Sea King. As you can guess, we don't use it too often except listening to oldies on the AM radio stations.  ;D

Cheers


----------



## Spr.Earl (18 Aug 2004)

Yup,first went to Sea in 71 here on the coast of B.C. as a Galley Boy on a old China Coaster that nevr made it there.
The Skeena Prince built in 47!!!!
Then joined the Norskie Merch in 72.

I can't believe it's still around especialy in our Navy!? 
Hey mabe I could be one of you crew? ;D


----------



## Inch (18 Aug 2004)

You'd probably understand the equip better than me, I learned on a glass cockpit, these steam driven instruments belong in a museum.


----------



## Spr.Earl (18 Aug 2004)

LOL   
As long as I can have a go at flying it.  ;D


----------



## Inch (18 Aug 2004)

Of course you can, but you'll understand if I have "nervous hands", right?


----------



## Spr.Earl (18 Aug 2004)

LOL,hey I play with boom boom's so no "nervous hands " here .  ;D

In all seriousness what is like to fly the old girls?
is it that bad as the press makes it out to be?
I think you had better not answer that in a public forum.  ;D


----------



## Inch (18 Aug 2004)

The press thrives on controversy. What more can I say? We only fly them when they're serviceable which is the problem since it seems like they're never serviceable.  Flying it is like flying a bus, a lot of inertia and very different than a Jet Ranger. Keeping in mind it is a helo, so noise and vibration are pretty standard.

"Nervous hands" is what we call it when you're letting a nugget fly and your hands are not on the controls but you sit there rubbing your legs in anticipation of having to take control because you hear the most common phrase in flying, "oh sh*t!"  

Cheers


----------



## Garbageman (31 Aug 2004)

Back on to the subject of this thread, has anyone done the Air Nav course recently?  I'm trying to get a feel for what it's like (level of academics, amount in class vs sim vs flight time, etc).  What are the shacks like in Winnipeg?


----------



## aesop081 (14 Oct 2004)

Right now i am at the navigation school here in winnipeg on the basic AESOp course.  The BANC ( basic air navigator course) serial 0404 has just started.  So far they have done all the same training we have done.  Air regulation, meteorology, basic comms and navigation theory.  The main difference so far is that we do math and the baby navs dont.  There are other differences but i'm not sure what they are, thier course is a year long, ours is six months .  We do fly the same aircraft here at the school ( minus the slignsby they use for lead-in) and train in the TMT just like they do.


----------



## tree hugger (25 Oct 2004)

So, is anyone waiting for the next airnav course, or does any one know if there is one starting up in Nov or Jan?


----------



## Inch (25 Oct 2004)

There is one starting in a few weeks, a couple 2Lts that were here just left to head out there. If you don't have a course loading message for it, you're not on it.

Cheers


----------



## aesop081 (25 Oct 2004)

BANC 0405 starts in november and 0501 in Jan as far as i understand


----------



## tree hugger (25 Oct 2004)

The info is for my roomie.  He passes ACS and got his air factor changed.  He was told that if he didn't hear anything by 23 Oct then we are supposed to find out whats going on with his file.  Problem is, he doesn't have any idea who to contact (he's a OT from army).  Any ideas?  Our COC was hoping he knew who to contact.


----------



## Inch (26 Oct 2004)

I'm sure there's a CFANS DIN site, check the 17 Wing site, and call the chief clerk. If he's OT, then he's still in and doing OJT somewhere, most likely with access to the DWAN.

Cheers


----------



## aesop081 (26 Oct 2004)

www.cfans.com


----------



## tree hugger (26 Oct 2004)

thanks guys, that really helps!


----------



## aesop081 (26 Oct 2004)

In response to a previous post, celestial nav is no longer taught at CFANS and the equipment has been removed from the CT-142.  There is a nice plaque and sextant in the school display case comemorating the last celestial nav flight.


----------



## Pieman (26 Oct 2004)

> In response to a previous post, celestial nav is no longer taught at CFANS and the equipment has been removed from the CT-142.   There is a nice plaque and sextant in the school display case comemorating the last celestial nav flight


 
So what are you guys going to do if the enemy whips out a nice little GPS jammer?

http://www.phrack.org/show.php?p=60&a=13


----------



## Inch (26 Oct 2004)

Actually, we don't rely on GPS as much as you would like to believe. It's mostly TACAN, VOR, sometimes INS, and Radar vectors that we use to navigate, as well as something called a "map". So, jam away, it won't stop me from getting to where I'm going.


----------



## Pieman (26 Oct 2004)

Ah ok. I figured that you guys were almost totally dependant on GPS these days. There goes my plan for world domination   ;D


----------



## aesop081 (26 Oct 2004)

Yup...a map and a window to look out of !!!  But a fully functioning APS -504 sure helps......Unless the instructors take away my doppler and i have to resort to tried and tested Jepp !!!


----------



## Bograt (27 Oct 2004)

Do navs shoot the stars any more?


----------



## aesop081 (27 Oct 2004)

As previously mentioned...........nope


----------



## chaos75 (23 Dec 2004)

The next Nav courses are as follows.

0501 - Jan 05 
0502 - May 05
0504 - August 05
0505 - October 05
0506 - Dec 05

As for the course, try studying "From the Ground Up" before you go it will help.  The shacks in Winnipeg are not too bad, but you can always buy a house, rent or live in a Q.  Any other Nav questions just ask.


----------



## Armageddon (13 Jan 2005)

Well, I am sure that a good majority of the questions on this forum have been answered; but, if there are any questions please feel free to ask them.  I am on the Nav course right now.  Other than that I don't know what to say.


----------



## chaos75 (13 Jan 2005)

Sorry i put down some wrong course numbers before.

0407 - Jan 05
0502 - May 05
0503- August 05
0504 - Oct 05
0505 - Dec 05

Any more Nav questions just ask.


----------



## Zoomie (14 Jan 2005)

Thread revival day...

Celestial Navigation is no longer taught at CFANS, but it is still required of our CC-115 Navigators.  The Buffalo does not have an INS and therefore lacks a non-magnetic compass source - as back-up.  A large part of the conversion course for Buff navs is the use of the sextant and determining grid headings while flying in the arctic.


----------



## Sam69 (14 Jan 2005)

Pieman said:
			
		

> So what are you guys going to do if the enemy whips out a nice little GPS jammer?
> 
> http://www.phrack.org/show.php?p=60&a=13



Do what the USAF does: drop a PGM on the jammer. Shuts down the Jammer and "politely" dissuades the individuals from jamming again.

Seriously, it is a concern but more for weapon systems that depend on them than aircraft. Aircrew are trained to navigate the old fashioned way, like Inch mentioned, and modern aircraft usually also have a doppler nav system or INS as well.

Sam


----------

