# Re: interesting



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:51:50 -0600*
Ian Edwards sez: interesting article forwarded by Patrick Cain.
Am I misinterpreting the article? Are the Bosnia postings compulsory for
the US NG/Res and they are not volunteers? With the only real
differences being that whole NG/Res divisions are called out rather than
NG/Res soldiers being individually used as augmentees to US Reg Force
units/formations?
I hope I‘m wrong, but calling out reservists whatever they may be
called in various nations except in times of "real" national emergency
is fraught with just all kinds of problems, not just the
employer/employee and family issues mentioned in the news article. If
so, and the US is sending them involuntarily to Bosnia how does anyone,
such as Congress, decide where to draw the line? Perhaps reservists
should be compelled to spend 6 months in South Korea or other American
empire "outpost"? Gosh, I must be wrong. If I was a Yank I am sure I
would want to be either reg. force or get out completely rather than
have the worst of both worlds as a reservist.
Secondly I noticed the numbers. Perhaps someone with better numbers can
do the math, but with a NG/Res of 870,000 it would seem that the US
ratio of NG/Res to Reg Force isn‘t all that far out of line, in terms of
the ratio, with our own. Gosh, I must be wrong. What‘s our PRes, about
15,000? What‘s our Reg Force army only about 35,000? How big is the US
Army Reg Force only? Double that of the NG/Res? Certainly not triple.
Yeah, two wrongs don‘t make a right and, yes, there is more necessary
than just an adequate ratio.
And when we bemoan the small budget of our own CF pity the poor
Russians. I‘ve read in a couple of newsstories in recent weeks that the
total Russian military budget, translating rubles into Canadian Tire
money is about half of our own and they still have, what, a gazillian
troops [2.1 million?? but declining fast] and that half the Russian
defence budget goes to maintaining their ICBM fleet so that it doesn‘t
rust out like their navy or get crated-up and sold under the table to
the islamics.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Paul Adkins <backflip@sahara.com.sa>* on *Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:25:07  0300*
Folks-
American National Guardsmen and Army and Air Force Reservists can be sent
overseas against their will.
As I understand it, the American military has arranged their affairs so that
no major operation can take place without involvement of the reserve
components. This is to ensure the political authorities cannot go on a
military adventure sure in the knowledge that only professional soldiers are
involved.
The idea is to force the politicians have to build a widespread national
will for any foreign entanglement.
I will refrain from revealing my opinion on this policy.
-Paul
> From: Ian Edwards 
> Organization: @Home Network
> Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:51:50 -0600
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: interesting
> 
> Ian Edwards sez: interesting article forwarded by Patrick Cain.
> 
> Am I misinterpreting the article? Are the Bosnia postings compulsory for
> the US NG/Res and they are not volunteers? With the only real
> differences being that whole NG/Res divisions are called out rather than
> NG/Res soldiers being individually used as augmentees to US Reg Force
> units/formations?
> 
> I hope I‘m wrong, but calling out reservists whatever they may be
> called in various nations except in times of "real" national emergency
> is fraught with just all kinds of problems, not just the
> employer/employee and family issues mentioned in the news article. If
> so, and the US is sending them involuntarily to Bosnia how does anyone,
> such as Congress, decide where to draw the line? Perhaps reservists
> should be compelled to spend 6 months in South Korea or other American
> empire "outpost"? Gosh, I must be wrong. If I was a Yank I am sure I
> would want to be either reg. force or get out completely rather than
> have the worst of both worlds as a reservist.
> 
> Secondly I noticed the numbers. Perhaps someone with better numbers can
> do the math, but with a NG/Res of 870,000 it would seem that the US
> ratio of NG/Res to Reg Force isn‘t all that far out of line, in terms of
> the ratio, with our own. Gosh, I must be wrong. What‘s our PRes, about
> 15,000? What‘s our Reg Force army only about 35,000? How big is the US
> Army Reg Force only? Double that of the NG/Res? Certainly not triple.
> Yeah, two wrongs don‘t make a right and, yes, there is more necessary
> than just an adequate ratio.
> 
> And when we bemoan the small budget of our own CF pity the poor
> Russians. I‘ve read in a couple of newsstories in recent weeks that the
> total Russian military budget, translating rubles into Canadian Tire
> money is about half of our own and they still have, what, a gazillian
> troops [2.1 million?? but declining fast] and that half the Russian
> defence budget goes to maintaining their ICBM fleet so that it doesn‘t
> rust out like their navy or get crated-up and sold under the table to
> the islamics.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:51:30 -0600*
Well, isn‘t that spin the treat of the week!
Not wishing to get Paul into trouble. We know who you are and where you
are!!!
Paul Adkins wrote:
> 
> Folks-
> 
> American National Guardsmen and Army and Air Force Reservists can be sent
> overseas against their will.
> 
> As I understand it, the American military has arranged their affairs so that
> no major operation can take place without involvement of the reserve
> components. This is to ensure the political authorities cannot go on a
> military adventure sure in the knowledge that only professional soldiers are
> involved.
> 
> The idea is to force the politicians have to build a widespread national
> will for any foreign entanglement.
> 
> I will refrain from revealing my opinion on this policy.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> > From: Ian Edwards 
> > Organization: @Home Network
> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:51:50 -0600
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: interesting
> >
> > Ian Edwards sez: interesting article forwarded by Patrick Cain.
> >
> > Am I misinterpreting the article? Are the Bosnia postings compulsory for
> > the US NG/Res and they are not volunteers? With the only real
> > differences being that whole NG/Res divisions are called out rather than
> > NG/Res soldiers being individually used as augmentees to US Reg Force
> > units/formations?
> >
> > I hope I‘m wrong, but calling out reservists whatever they may be
> > called in various nations except in times of "real" national emergency
> > is fraught with just all kinds of problems, not just the
> > employer/employee and family issues mentioned in the news article. If
> > so, and the US is sending them involuntarily to Bosnia how does anyone,
> > such as Congress, decide where to draw the line? Perhaps reservists
> > should be compelled to spend 6 months in South Korea or other American
> > empire "outpost"? Gosh, I must be wrong. If I was a Yank I am sure I
> > would want to be either reg. force or get out completely rather than
> > have the worst of both worlds as a reservist.
> >
> > Secondly I noticed the numbers. Perhaps someone with better numbers can
> > do the math, but with a NG/Res of 870,000 it would seem that the US
> > ratio of NG/Res to Reg Force isn‘t all that far out of line, in terms of
> > the ratio, with our own. Gosh, I must be wrong. What‘s our PRes, about
> > 15,000? What‘s our Reg Force army only about 35,000? How big is the US
> > Army Reg Force only? Double that of the NG/Res? Certainly not triple.
> > Yeah, two wrongs don‘t make a right and, yes, there is more necessary
> > than just an adequate ratio.
> >
> > And when we bemoan the small budget of our own CF pity the poor
> > Russians. I‘ve read in a couple of newsstories in recent weeks that the
> > total Russian military budget, translating rubles into Canadian Tire
> > money is about half of our own and they still have, what, a gazillian
> > troops [2.1 million?? but declining fast] and that half the Russian
> > defence budget goes to maintaining their ICBM fleet so that it doesn‘t
> > rust out like their navy or get crated-up and sold under the table to
> > the islamics.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:04:38 GMT*
Sorry to be dense, but I‘m un peu confused. Would the "average" no need to 
name names here! soldier Canadian or American be likely to agree with 
this policy and the reasons for it, as stated by Paul, or not?
Anyone who wants to jump in to clarify or explain should feel free to do 
so...
Thanks,
Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: Ian Edwards 
Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Subject: Re: interestingII
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:51:30 -0600
Well, isn‘t that spin the treat of the week!
Not wishing to get Paul into trouble. We know who you are and where you
are!!!
Paul Adkins wrote:
 >
 > Folks-
 >
 > American National Guardsmen and Army and Air Force Reservists can be 
sent
 > overseas against their will.
 >
 > As I understand it, the American military has arranged their affairs so 
that
 > no major operation can take place without involvement of the reserve
 > components. This is to ensure the political authorities cannot go on a
 > military adventure sure in the knowledge that only professional soldiers 
are
 > involved.
 >
 > The idea is to force the politicians have to build a widespread national
 > will for any foreign entanglement.
 >
 > I will refrain from revealing my opinion on this policy.
 >
 > -Paul
 >
 > > From: Ian Edwards 
 > > Organization: @Home Network
 > > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:51:50 -0600
 > > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
 > > Subject: Re: interesting
 > >
 > > Ian Edwards sez: interesting article forwarded by Patrick Cain.
 > >
 > > Am I misinterpreting the article? Are the Bosnia postings compulsory 
for
 > > the US NG/Res and they are not volunteers? With the only real
 > > differences being that whole NG/Res divisions are called out rather 
than
 > > NG/Res soldiers being individually used as augmentees to US Reg Force
 > > units/formations?
 > >
 > > I hope I‘m wrong, but calling out reservists whatever they may be
 > > called in various nations except in times of "real" national emergency
 > > is fraught with just all kinds of problems, not just the
 > > employer/employee and family issues mentioned in the news article. If
 > > so, and the US is sending them involuntarily to Bosnia how does anyone,
 > > such as Congress, decide where to draw the line? Perhaps reservists
 > > should be compelled to spend 6 months in South Korea or other American
 > > empire "outpost"? Gosh, I must be wrong. If I was a Yank I am sure I
 > > would want to be either reg. force or get out completely rather than
 > > have the worst of both worlds as a reservist.
 > >
 > > Secondly I noticed the numbers. Perhaps someone with better numbers can
 > > do the math, but with a NG/Res of 870,000 it would seem that the US
 > > ratio of NG/Res to Reg Force isn‘t all that far out of line, in terms 
of
 > > the ratio, with our own. Gosh, I must be wrong. What‘s our PRes, about
 > > 15,000? What‘s our Reg Force army only about 35,000? How big is the 
US
 > > Army Reg Force only? Double that of the NG/Res? Certainly not triple.
 > > Yeah, two wrongs don‘t make a right and, yes, there is more necessary
 > > than just an adequate ratio.
 > >
 > > And when we bemoan the small budget of our own CF pity the poor
 > > Russians. I‘ve read in a couple of newsstories in recent weeks that the
 > > total Russian military budget, translating rubles into Canadian Tire
 > > money is about half of our own and they still have, what, a gazillian
 > > troops [2.1 million?? but declining fast] and that half the Russian
 > > defence budget goes to maintaining their ICBM fleet so that it doesn‘t
 > > rust out like their navy or get crated-up and sold under the table to
 > > the islamics.
 > > --------------------------------------------------------
 > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 > > message body.
 >
 > --------------------------------------------------------
 > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
 > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
 > message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
 http://profiles.msn.com. 
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:42:06 -0300*
During the Gulf War, there were quite a few  regular force members who did not
want to go for whatever reason.  If you elect to join either the regular or
reserve force, you know the type of job you will be doing.  It‘s the military
for crying out loud!!  So please don‘t whine about where you are sent to do that
job.  If you don‘t want to have to go, don‘t join!
Beth MacFarlane
"Joan O. Arc" wrote:
> Sorry to be dense, but I‘m un peu confused. Would the "average" no need to
> name names here! soldier Canadian or American be likely to agree with
> this policy and the reasons for it, as stated by Paul, or not?
>
> Anyone who wants to jump in to clarify or explain should feel free to do
> so...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joan
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Ian Edwards 
> Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: interestingII
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:51:30 -0600
>
> Well, isn‘t that spin the treat of the week!
> Not wishing to get Paul into trouble. We know who you are and where you
> are!!!
>
> Paul Adkins wrote:
>  >
>  > Folks-
>  >
>  > American National Guardsmen and Army and Air Force Reservists can be
> sent
>  > overseas against their will.
>  >
>  > As I understand it, the American military has arranged their affairs so
> that
>  > no major operation can take place without involvement of the reserve
>  > components. This is to ensure the political authorities cannot go on a
>  > military adventure sure in the knowledge that only professional soldiers
> are
>  > involved.
>  >
>  > The idea is to force the politicians have to build a widespread national
>  > will for any foreign entanglement.
>  >
>  > I will refrain from revealing my opinion on this policy.
>  >
>  > -Paul
>  >
>  > > From: Ian Edwards 
>  > > Organization: @Home Network
>  > > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:51:50 -0600
>  > > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > > Subject: Re: interesting
>  > >
>  > > Ian Edwards sez: interesting article forwarded by Patrick Cain.
>  > >
>  > > Am I misinterpreting the article? Are the Bosnia postings compulsory
> for
>  > > the US NG/Res and they are not volunteers? With the only real
>  > > differences being that whole NG/Res divisions are called out rather
> than
>  > > NG/Res soldiers being individually used as augmentees to US Reg Force
>  > > units/formations?
>  > >
>  > > I hope I‘m wrong, but calling out reservists whatever they may be
>  > > called in various nations except in times of "real" national emergency
>  > > is fraught with just all kinds of problems, not just the
>  > > employer/employee and family issues mentioned in the news article. If
>  > > so, and the US is sending them involuntarily to Bosnia how does anyone,
>  > > such as Congress, decide where to draw the line? Perhaps reservists
>  > > should be compelled to spend 6 months in South Korea or other American
>  > > empire "outpost"? Gosh, I must be wrong. If I was a Yank I am sure I
>  > > would want to be either reg. force or get out completely rather than
>  > > have the worst of both worlds as a reservist.
>  > >
>  > > Secondly I noticed the numbers. Perhaps someone with better numbers can
>  > > do the math, but with a NG/Res of 870,000 it would seem that the US
>  > > ratio of NG/Res to Reg Force isn‘t all that far out of line, in terms
> of
>  > > the ratio, with our own. Gosh, I must be wrong. What‘s our PRes, about
>  > > 15,000? What‘s our Reg Force army only about 35,000? How big is the
> US
>  > > Army Reg Force only? Double that of the NG/Res? Certainly not triple.
>  > > Yeah, two wrongs don‘t make a right and, yes, there is more necessary
>  > > than just an adequate ratio.
>  > >
>  > > And when we bemoan the small budget of our own CF pity the poor
>  > > Russians. I‘ve read in a couple of newsstories in recent weeks that the
>  > > total Russian military budget, translating rubles into Canadian Tire
>  > > money is about half of our own and they still have, what, a gazillian
>  > > troops [2.1 million?? but declining fast] and that half the Russian
>  > > defence budget goes to maintaining their ICBM fleet so that it doesn‘t
>  > > rust out like their navy or get crated-up and sold under the table to
>  > > the islamics.
>  > > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  > > message body.
>  >
>  > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  > message body.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
>  http://profiles.msn.com. 
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Kevin Knight" <kknight@nunanet.com>* on *Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:18:28 -0400*
I have heard that in the states many employers are loathe to hire reservists
because they are aware of the fact that they reservists can be called out
at any time.  The companies that hire reservists are required to keep a job
open for them while they are on call-out and simply absorb the productivity
losses incurred.  Do you think that such an ammendment to our National
Defence Act would make it more difficult for reservists to find gainful
employment?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan O. Arc" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: interestingII
> Sorry to be dense, but I‘m un peu confused. Would the "average" no need
to
> name names here! soldier Canadian or American be likely to agree with
> this policy and the reasons for it, as stated by Paul, or not?
>
> Anyone who wants to jump in to clarify or explain should feel free to do
> so...
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Joan
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Ian Edwards 
> Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: interestingII
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:51:30 -0600
>
> Well, isn‘t that spin the treat of the week!
> Not wishing to get Paul into trouble. We know who you are and where you
> are!!!
>
> Paul Adkins wrote:
>  >
>  > Folks-
>  >
>  > American National Guardsmen and Army and Air Force Reservists can be
> sent
>  > overseas against their will.
>  >
>  > As I understand it, the American military has arranged their affairs so
> that
>  > no major operation can take place without involvement of the reserve
>  > components. This is to ensure the political authorities cannot go on a
>  > military adventure sure in the knowledge that only professional
soldiers
> are
>  > involved.
>  >
>  > The idea is to force the politicians have to build a widespread
national
>  > will for any foreign entanglement.
>  >
>  > I will refrain from revealing my opinion on this policy.
>  >
>  > -Paul
>  >
>  > > From: Ian Edwards 
>  > > Organization: @Home Network
>  > > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:51:50 -0600
>  > > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > > Subject: Re: interesting
>  > >
>  > > Ian Edwards sez: interesting article forwarded by Patrick Cain.
>  > >
>  > > Am I misinterpreting the article? Are the Bosnia postings compulsory
> for
>  > > the US NG/Res and they are not volunteers? With the only real
>  > > differences being that whole NG/Res divisions are called out rather
> than
>  > > NG/Res soldiers being individually used as augmentees to US Reg Force
>  > > units/formations?
>  > >
>  > > I hope I‘m wrong, but calling out reservists whatever they may be
>  > > called in various nations except in times of "real" national
emergency
>  > > is fraught with just all kinds of problems, not just the
>  > > employer/employee and family issues mentioned in the news article. If
>  > > so, and the US is sending them involuntarily to Bosnia how does
anyone,
>  > > such as Congress, decide where to draw the line? Perhaps reservists
>  > > should be compelled to spend 6 months in South Korea or other
American
>  > > empire "outpost"? Gosh, I must be wrong. If I was a Yank I am sure I
>  > > would want to be either reg. force or get out completely rather than
>  > > have the worst of both worlds as a reservist.
>  > >
>  > > Secondly I noticed the numbers. Perhaps someone with better numbers
can
>  > > do the math, but with a NG/Res of 870,000 it would seem that the US
>  > > ratio of NG/Res to Reg Force isn‘t all that far out of line, in terms
> of
>  > > the ratio, with our own. Gosh, I must be wrong. What‘s our PRes,
about
>  > > 15,000? What‘s our Reg Force army only about 35,000? How big is the
> US
>  > > Army Reg Force only? Double that of the NG/Res? Certainly not
triple.
>  > > Yeah, two wrongs don‘t make a right and, yes, there is more necessary
>  > > than just an adequate ratio.
>  > >
>  > > And when we bemoan the small budget of our own CF pity the poor
>  > > Russians. I‘ve read in a couple of newsstories in recent weeks that
the
>  > > total Russian military budget, translating rubles into Canadian Tire
>  > > money is about half of our own and they still have, what, a
gazillian
>  > > troops [2.1 million?? but declining fast] and that half the Russian
>  > > defence budget goes to maintaining their ICBM fleet so that it
doesn‘t
>  > > rust out like their navy or get crated-up and sold under the table
to
>  > > the islamics.
>  > > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  > > message body.
>  >
>  > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>  > message body.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
>  http://profiles.msn.com. 
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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message body.


----------



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:53:48 -0700*
I have worked in the US for 8 or 9 years, in 2 different states, and haven‘t
found that at all. Generally there‘s always exceptions, the average
American is far more openly  patriotic, and pro-Armed Services, than we
are in Canada. Obviously different companies may have different views on
things, but I have never heard that point of view expressed, either in my
own companies, or those of friends, family, acquaintances, etc.
Ubique
M J MacFarlane
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Knight" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: interestingII
> I have heard that in the states many employers are loathe to hire
reservists
> because they are aware of the fact that they reservists can be called
out
> at any time.  The companies that hire reservists are required to keep a
job
> open for them while they are on call-out and simply absorb the
productivity
> losses incurred.  Do you think that such an ammendment to our National
> Defence Act would make it more difficult for reservists to find gainful
> employment?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joan O. Arc" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:04 AM
> Subject: Re: interestingII
>
>
> > Sorry to be dense, but I‘m un peu confused. Would the "average" no need
> to
> > name names here! soldier Canadian or American be likely to agree with
> > this policy and the reasons for it, as stated by Paul, or not?
> >
> > Anyone who wants to jump in to clarify or explain should feel free to do
> > so...
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Joan
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: Ian Edwards 
> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: interestingII
> > Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:51:30 -0600
> >
> > Well, isn‘t that spin the treat of the week!
> > Not wishing to get Paul into trouble. We know who you are and where you
> > are!!!
> >
> > Paul Adkins wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Folks-
> >  >
> >  > American National Guardsmen and Army and Air Force Reservists can
be
> > sent
> >  > overseas against their will.
> >  >
> >  > As I understand it, the American military has arranged their affairs
so
> > that
> >  > no major operation can take place without involvement of the reserve
> >  > components. This is to ensure the political authorities cannot go on
a
> >  > military adventure sure in the knowledge that only professional
> soldiers
> > are
> >  > involved.
> >  >
> >  > The idea is to force the politicians have to build a widespread
> national
> >  > will for any foreign entanglement.
> >  >
> >  > I will refrain from revealing my opinion on this policy.
> >  >
> >  > -Paul
> >  >
> >  > > From: Ian Edwards 
> >  > > Organization: @Home Network
> >  > > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:51:50 -0600
> >  > > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > > Subject: Re: interesting
> >  > >
> >  > > Ian Edwards sez: interesting article forwarded by Patrick Cain.
> >  > >
> >  > > Am I misinterpreting the article? Are the Bosnia postings
compulsory
> > for
> >  > > the US NG/Res and they are not volunteers? With the only real
> >  > > differences being that whole NG/Res divisions are called out rather
> > than
> >  > > NG/Res soldiers being individually used as augmentees to US Reg
Force
> >  > > units/formations?
> >  > >
> >  > > I hope I‘m wrong, but calling out reservists whatever they may be
> >  > > called in various nations except in times of "real" national
> emergency
> >  > > is fraught with just all kinds of problems, not just the
> >  > > employer/employee and family issues mentioned in the news article.
If
> >  > > so, and the US is sending them involuntarily to Bosnia how does
> anyone,
> >  > > such as Congress, decide where to draw the line? Perhaps reservists
> >  > > should be compelled to spend 6 months in South Korea or other
> American
> >  > > empire "outpost"? Gosh, I must be wrong. If I was a Yank I am sure
I
> >  > > would want to be either reg. force or get out completely rather
than
> >  > > have the worst of both worlds as a reservist.
> >  > >
> >  > > Secondly I noticed the numbers. Perhaps someone with better numbers
> can
> >  > > do the math, but with a NG/Res of 870,000 it would seem that the US
> >  > > ratio of NG/Res to Reg Force isn‘t all that far out of line, in
terms
> > of
> >  > > the ratio, with our own. Gosh, I must be wrong. What‘s our PRes,
> about
> >  > > 15,000? What‘s our Reg Force army only about 35,000? How big is
the
> > US
> >  > > Army Reg Force only? Double that of the NG/Res? Certainly not
> triple.
> >  > > Yeah, two wrongs don‘t make a right and, yes, there is more
necessary
> >  > > than just an adequate ratio.
> >  > >
> >  > > And when we bemoan the small budget of our own CF pity the poor
> >  > > Russians. I‘ve read in a couple of newsstories in recent weeks that
> the
> >  > > total Russian military budget, translating rubles into Canadian
Tire
> >  > > money is about half of our own and they still have, what, a
> gazillian
> >  > > troops [2.1 million?? but declining fast] and that half the Russian
> >  > > defence budget goes to maintaining their ICBM fleet so that it
> doesn‘t
> >  > > rust out like their navy or get crated-up and sold under the table
> to
> >  > > the islamics.
> >  > > --------------------------------------------------------
> >  > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  > > message body.
> >  >
> >  > --------------------------------------------------------
> >  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  > message body.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
> >
> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> >  http://profiles.msn.com. 
> >
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> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com>* on *Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:51:31 -0600*
Jumping in where the proverbial angels fear to tread:
I would expect that the acceptance level by a reserve soldier to a
compulsory hardship offshore postings would be a function of that
soldiers‘ "life stage". For singles without clear career paths callouts
would be welcome. For those with close family ties gained after giving
up the single life i.e. with children and especially if they have made
a good start towards a solid career path or higher edcation that cannot
be postponed without severe cost the view would be different: they
remain in the reserve to train and train others and be prepared to be
used only when the regular force can‘t cope with a MAJOR crisis if a
brushfire breaks out in some corner of the world that requires "our"
troops then our regular force should have been maintained at a level
necessary to handle the situation and those reservists would not be
happy that the politicians failed to maintain a standing army large
enough to prepare for forseeable smaller emergencies. Or is the PRes
just a Manning Depot for the Reg. Force?
When I use the term career I am not referring to jobs and/or seniority
that can be protected by union or civil service contracts. Most
professionals particularly with private practices and those attempting
to climb corporate ladders who are out of the loop for nine months to a
year or more would lose much more than could ever be compensated. So
perhaps the US has the right idea in that callups can only be made with
the approval of Congress, therefore allowing the public be the judge of
congressional decisions. Wrong political decisions would result in not
just the politician being tossed from office but, alas, would also
ensure that damn few would join the reserves in the future.
Beth MacFarlane wrote:
> 
> During the Gulf War, there were quite a few  regular force members who did not
> want to go for whatever reason.  If you elect to join either the regular or
> reserve force, you know the type of job you will be doing.  It‘s the military
> for crying out loud!!  So please don‘t whine about where you are sent to do that
> job.  If you don‘t want to have to go, don‘t join!
> 
> Beth MacFarlane
> 
> "Joan O. Arc" wrote:
> 
> > Sorry to be dense, but I‘m un peu confused. Would the "average" no need to
> > name names here! soldier Canadian or American be likely to agree with
> > this policy and the reasons for it, as stated by Paul, or not?
> >
> > Anyone who wants to jump in to clarify or explain should feel free to do
> > so...
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Joan
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: Ian Edwards 
> > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject: Re: interestingII
> > Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:51:30 -0600
> >
> > Well, isn‘t that spin the treat of the week!
> > Not wishing to get Paul into trouble. We know who you are and where you
> > are!!!
> >
> > Paul Adkins wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Folks-
> >  >
> >  > American National Guardsmen and Army and Air Force Reservists can be
> > sent
> >  > overseas against their will.
> >  >
> >  > As I understand it, the American military has arranged their affairs so
> > that
> >  > no major operation can take place without involvement of the reserve
> >  > components. This is to ensure the political authorities cannot go on a
> >  > military adventure sure in the knowledge that only professional soldiers
> > are
> >  > involved.
> >  >
> >  > The idea is to force the politicians have to build a widespread national
> >  > will for any foreign entanglement.
> >  >
> >  > I will refrain from revealing my opinion on this policy.
> >  >
> >  > -Paul
> >  >
> >  > > From: Ian Edwards 
> >  > > Organization: @Home Network
> >  > > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:51:50 -0600
> >  > > To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >  > > Subject: Re: interesting
> >  > >
> >  > > Ian Edwards sez: interesting article forwarded by Patrick Cain.
> >  > >
> >  > > Am I misinterpreting the article? Are the Bosnia postings compulsory
> > for
> >  > > the US NG/Res and they are not volunteers? With the only real
> >  > > differences being that whole NG/Res divisions are called out rather
> > than
> >  > > NG/Res soldiers being individually used as augmentees to US Reg Force
> >  > > units/formations?
> >  > >
> >  > > I hope I‘m wrong, but calling out reservists whatever they may be
> >  > > called in various nations except in times of "real" national emergency
> >  > > is fraught with just all kinds of problems, not just the
> >  > > employer/employee and family issues mentioned in the news article. If
> >  > > so, and the US is sending them involuntarily to Bosnia how does anyone,
> >  > > such as Congress, decide where to draw the line? Perhaps reservists
> >  > > should be compelled to spend 6 months in South Korea or other American
> >  > > empire "outpost"? Gosh, I must be wrong. If I was a Yank I am sure I
> >  > > would want to be either reg. force or get out completely rather than
> >  > > have the worst of both worlds as a reservist.
> >  > >
> >  > > Secondly I noticed the numbers. Perhaps someone with better numbers can
> >  > > do the math, but with a NG/Res of 870,000 it would seem that the US
> >  > > ratio of NG/Res to Reg Force isn‘t all that far out of line, in terms
> > of
> >  > > the ratio, with our own. Gosh, I must be wrong. What‘s our PRes, about
> >  > > 15,000? What‘s our Reg Force army only about 35,000? How big is the
> > US
> >  > > Army Reg Force only? Double that of the NG/Res? Certainly not triple.
> >  > > Yeah, two wrongs don‘t make a right and, yes, there is more necessary
> >  > > than just an adequate ratio.
> >  > >
> >  > > And when we bemoan the small budget of our own CF pity the poor
> >  > > Russians. I‘ve read in a couple of newsstories in recent weeks that the
> >  > > total Russian military budget, translating rubles into Canadian Tire
> >  > > money is about half of our own and they still have, what, a gazillian
> >  > > troops [2.1 million?? but declining fast] and that half the Russian
> >  > > defence budget goes to maintaining their ICBM fleet so that it doesn‘t
> >  > > rust out like their navy or get crated-up and sold under the table to
> >  > > the islamics.
> >  > > --------------------------------------------------------
> >  > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  > > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  > > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  > > message body.
> >  >
> >  > --------------------------------------------------------
> >  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >  > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >  > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >  > message body.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> >
> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> >  http://profiles.msn.com. 
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:46:04 -0700*
Just a comment, based on personal experience.... in my reserve Regiment,
people were clamouring for peacekeeping missions, callouts, and active duty
Gulf War regardless of "career status". Keep in mind, in the absence of
benefits, incentives, employer legislation, pay, severance package,
pensions, etc., most of the Reservists I worked with, did it because they
enjoyed it, or even loved it - there weren‘t many other reasons.For us it
wasn‘t a career that we were stuck in. On a previous post, however, I did
mention a problem, based on exactly what you outlined when it came to
courses promotions, and callouts -  often as not, the people who went were
people who couldn‘t/wouldn‘t hold down a regular job, or otherwise try to
pursue a career. Thus, the Unit wasn‘t always sending/promoting the best
people. I guess, for me, for example, a chance to do a peacekeeping mission,
or go to the Gulf, would‘ve been worth jeopardizing my career a 6B course
wouldn‘t have been.
I hope that makes sense.
Ubique
Mac
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *DHall058@aol.com* on *Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:35:03 EDT*
As usual, you‘ve targeted the main issues dead on.  This deployment of 
NG/Reserve but primarily NG units to overseas peacekeeping roles is a 
dramatic change from the Army‘s direction just after the Gulf War.  The 
driving force was the great dissatisfaction of the regular forces with the 
increasing number of such assignments.  This is an effort to retain both 
senior enlisted and junior officers, plus "train up" the NG, which was found 
deficient during the Gulf mobilization with a few notable exceptions!.  It 
will be interesting to see how the NG fares with their own retention, since 
they have more avenues for early discharge than the Regular Army.  
In my humble opinion, I think that the US is trying to do too much with 
limited resources, and that this is just putting a bandaid on a sucking chest 
wound. Which makes the Canadian efforts even more amazing, given the 
disparity in numbers.
Dave Hall
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *DHall058@aol.com* on *Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:53:32 EDT*
I have to agree with Mr. Macfarlane...sounds pretty far-fetched to me.  As an 
ex-active and reservist, I know first-hand that nobody held a gun to my head 
to stay in.  In fact, it‘s pretty competitive even in the reserves/NG.  None 
of my buddies who are still in the reserves/NG are thrilled about going to 
Kosovo, et al, but they are ready to go if ordered. And some have 
volunteered...
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *DHall058@aol.com* on *Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:42:58 EST*
Greg,
Funny you should mention D.B. Cooper, as our late Mr. Marskell used the same 
D. B. initials. Coincidence?
By the way, the correct name of that translation software is L  H Power 
Translator Pro, Version 7.0.  According to a native French speaker in my 
officer, it does a very credible job of converting English to French. I‘m 
guessing that this might be of the most utility to a bilingual nation...
Dave
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *CoastDanny@aol.com* on *Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:46:57 EST*
If you are still looking for translator sites, I use this one at work. 
 http://translator.go.com/?svx=GOPHER_translationlk=noframes 
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## army (23 Sep 2002)

Posted by *CoastDanny@aol.com* on *Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:17:33 EST*
Boss??? Who me? I am not even 9er bravo at home! 
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