# Colombia  (Super thread)



## D-n-A (27 Dec 2005)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N27328148.htm

BOGOTA, Colombia, Dec 27 (Reuters) - Marxist rebels killed 24 Colombian soldiers sent to help destroy coca plants in the country's southern jungles on Tuesday in the worst blow against the military in at least three years, the army said.

The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia attacked the soldiers near the town of Vista Hermosa in Meta province, an army spokesman said.

Details of the attack were not immediately available but the military death toll was the worst for any single incident since President Alvaro Uribe took office in late 2002 promising to crack down on the rebel army known by its Spanish initials FARC.

The soldiers were providing security for another army team which was manually destroying coca plants, the army said. Coca leaf is the raw material of cocaine.

The 17,000-strong FARC, which has been fighting for socialist revolution since 1964, draws much of its money from the cocaine trade. The peasant militia, which has little support in Colombia's cities, has staged several big attacks this year after a period of relative inactivity when Uribe stepped up military action against them.

Violence has fallen sharply during the Uribe government and polls say the right-wing president should easily win reelection next May.

But thousands of people are still killed in fighting in Colombia every year and at least 400 military personnel have been killed so far this year.


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## Blackadder1916 (14 Mar 2007)

Chiquita Charged In Terror Investigation 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/terrorism_bananas

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer March 14, 2007

Banana company Chiquita Brands International said Wednesday it has agreed to a $25 million fine and admit paying a Colombian terrorist group for protection in a volatile farming part of the country.

The settlement resolves a lengthy Justice Department investigation into the company's financial dealings with terrorist organizations in Colombia.

In court documents filed Wednesday, federal prosecutors said the Cincinnati-based company and several unnamed high-ranking corporate officers paid about $1.7 million between 1997 and 2004 to the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia.

The AUC has been responsible for some of the worst massacres in Colombia's civil conflict and is responsible for a sizable percentage of the country's cocaine exports. The right-wing group was designated by the U.S. government as a terrorist organization in September 2001.

Prosecutors said the company made the payments in exchange for protection. The company also made similar payments to the leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, according to prosecutors.

Colombia's banana-growing region is a zone that has been viciously fought over by leftist rebels and far-right paramilitaries.

"The information filed today is part of a plea agreement, which we view as a reasoned solution to the dilemma the company faced several years ago," Chiquita's chief executive, Fernando Aguirre, said in a statement. "The payments made by the company were always motivated by our good faith concern for the safety of our employees."

Details of the settlement were not included in court documents but Aguirre said it would pay $25 million in fines, which it set aside this year. The company reported the deal to the SEC. A plea hearing was scheduled for Monday.

The payments were approved by senior executives at Chiquita, prosecutors wrote in court documents. Prosecutors said Chiquita began paying the right-wing AUC after a meeting in 1997 and disguised the payments in company books.

"No later than in or about September 2000, defendant Chiquita's senior executives knew that the corporation was paying AUC and that the AUC was a violent paramilitary organization," prosecutors wrote in Wednesday's court filing.

Company attorneys made it clear the payments were improper, prosecutors said.

"Bottom line: CANNOT MAKE THE PAYMENT," the company's outside counsel advised in February 2003, according to an excerpt of a memo included in court documents.

In April 2003, company officials and lawyers approached the Justice Department and told prosecutors they had been making the payments. According to court documents, the payments continued for months.

The document filed by federal prosecutors is known as an information. Unlike an indictment, it is normally worked out through discussions with prosecutors and is followed by a guilty plea.
___
Associated Press writer Toby Muse in Bogota, Colombia, contributed to this report.
___
On the Net: 
Chiquita: http://www.chiquita.com/


At least they've kept to their corporate heritage of bribery in the banana republics.


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## Yrys (14 Mar 2007)

And I thought the title was a joke...



			
				blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> At least they've kept to their corporate heritage of bribery in the banana republics.


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## harry8422 (14 Mar 2007)

That is a funny headline


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## gaspasser (15 Mar 2007)

Could it be that this is the way business is done in certain banana republics?  A criminal based economics system only makes the "bad guys" richer and the "businesses" safer.
My 0.02


PS: yes, the pun was intended.   ;D


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## the 48th regulator (15 Mar 2007)

Heh,

Unfortunately, I love my bananas and my Nike shoes.

And to get them we either pay the Terrorist, or the Sweat master so we can be well fed and look good.

dileas

tess


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## Blackadder1916 (20 Mar 2007)

Colombia Seeks 8 Chiquita Employees
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4646791.html



> By JAVIER BAENA Associated Press Writer March 20, 2007, 3:04PM
> 
> BOGOTA, Colombia — *Colombia's chief prosecutor said Tuesday he will demand the extradition of eight people employed by Chiquita allegedly involved with the company's payments to right-wing paramilitaries and leftist rebels* to protect its banana-growing operation.
> 
> ...



Interesting that Chiquita only turned themselves in after having a very profitable period and around the time they sold the Colombian subsidiary.  But then, having a conscience has rarely interfered with business.  Should their motto be 'get out before you slip on a banana peel'.


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## CougarKing (2 Mar 2008)

Either Chavez just wants more attention these days or he is actually serious about helping his fellow Leftists across the border in Colombia.
 :
Hopefully this action on his part is just more chest-thumping and will not actually lead to war. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23435878/



> *Chavez sends troops to Colombia border *
> 
> _Venezuelan leader warns neighbor’s action against rebels could lead to war_
> BREAKING NEWS
> ...


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## tomahawk6 (2 Mar 2008)

I hope Chavez gives us a reason to take out his oil facilities. No more money.


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## Mike Baker (2 Mar 2008)

Here is the CNN article on the subject.


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## Ex-Dragoon (2 Mar 2008)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> I hope Chavez gives us a reason to take out his oil facilities. No more money.



Can you wait until after winter? We are paying high enough gas prices at the moment lol


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## Richie (2 Mar 2008)

Hugo Chavez has been encountering political opposition at home. I think Colombia has provided him with an external enemy that he focus his people's anger on; oldest trick in the book. It will also allow him to justify spending more on Russian military equipment. 

Personally, I wish Chavez would take the king of Spain's advice and just "shut up".


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## CougarKing (3 Mar 2008)

And there goes Ecuador too...

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/080303/3/3g0u4.html



> *Venezuela, Ecuador send troops to Colombia border*
> 
> CARACAS/QUITO (Reuters) - Venezuela and Ecuador sent troops to their borders with Colombia on Sunday after their Andean neighbour bombed Colombian rebels inside Ecuador in an attack Caracas said could spark a war.
> 
> ...


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## Falange (3 Mar 2008)

Mr. Chavez pisses me off so much. For those who have seen his rants in "Alo Presidente" you just have to love how he calls everyonethat it is outside his "21st Century Socialism" club, immorals, puppies of the empire, criminals, assassins etc etc. However, it seems he has the moral high ground even though he provides weapons, political cover and assistance to the FARC. I remember from the time I spent in Bogota how they showed inthe news a time when the FARC actually  placed a collar bomb in the neck of a working class woman and then when an explosive technician from the national police was trying to safe this poor woman's life the FARC insurgents decide to activate the explosive device. way to go Mr. Chavez! you are saint for real and your buddies too!


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## megany (3 Mar 2008)

Based on the millions of Colombians who marched against the FARC on February 4 in Bogota and around the world, I would say that the FARC has definitely lost favour with Colombians.  I haven't met a single person who sympathized with them (unlike in years past when the FARC actually had an agenda beyond terrorism).  

In terms of Venezuela, public Colombian opinion is definitely against their government.  There was also a surprisingly high amount of anti-Chavez graffiti scattered around the walls in Bogota (in the poorer neighbourhoods and the fancy business parks we worked in) - I even saw a "NO CHAVEZ" scratched on a wall in a nightclub.  Our security escorts said that they felt Chavez was trying to ruin their country again just as they had been working so hard to build it back up.

I think someone should remind Dear Hugo that Colombia has a much better military...


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## Panzer Grenadier (3 Mar 2008)

If Hugo Chavez wants to start a war - go ahead - who's he going to blame once everything starts falling apart around him. Oh yeah that's right - George Bush.


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## geo (3 Mar 2008)

Panzer Grenadier said:
			
		

> If Hugo Chavez wants to start a war - go ahead - who's he going to blame once everything starts falling apart around him. Oh yeah that's right - George Bush.



Nah.... Dubya's presidency is on the wane..... but should be good practice material for Barak, Hillary or John....


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## LineDoggie (3 Mar 2008)

I wonder when the Venezuelan _Gleiwitz_ Incident is to take place.....

Whats Spanish for "Panzers Vorwarts"? :

Ecuador can be the USSR in this re-enactment


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## tomahawk6 (3 Mar 2008)

Documents captured on Reyes laptop indicate Chavez paid $300m to FARC and helped them get uranium.Equador is also implicated which explains why they have their troops on Colombia's borders.
Brazil isnt too happy with Chavez so they probably would assist Colombia.Should get interesting.


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## Falange (3 Mar 2008)

Well, I would not see president Lula getting that involved appart from the mediator role if Chavez rotten brain sees a casus bellum and decides to attack Colombia. At least the ratification of Venezuela's membership into Mercosur (Southern Common Market) is at stake right now as the Brazilians and Paraguayans are not that impress with Mr. Chavez antics and they know that it could affect the political capital of the trading bloc. In reality there is no tradition of solid alliances in South America and countries have shifted their attituted towards their neighbours according to their national interest and the underlying ideological core behind it. 

Well, the assistance story is an old one too. When I was in Bogota Caracol noticias and RCN always showed this reports in which the Colombian Army, National Police, or Marine Infantry would capture FARC insurgents. For their surprise they would be using FN FAL rifles that were originally issued to the Venezuelan army. And megsy is right, Colombians do feel an animosity towards Chavez because he has always used a hostile rethoric towards Colombia. There is the lasting impression that Chavez and his minions want to see Colombia weaken for both political and economic reasons. I remember when Chavez was first elected most people in Colombia thought Chavez would invade the Guajira region of Colombia as according to him that belonged to Venezuela


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## ballz (3 Mar 2008)

Ok so forgive me for ignorance on this question, but is the US military in any state right now to start helping out down there too? I mean, they're pretty committed right now as it is aren't they? If they start trying to do everything everywhere it's going to leave them in a right old state isn't it? Do you think they'd start sending troops and stuff down there too if s**t hits the fan?

And I imagine Canada wouldn't play much of a factor? We've got our hands full right now? Am I correct? Sort of a "We support the US, heres a pat on the back for what you guys are doing down there," sort of deal, and that'd be it?


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## Lumber (4 Mar 2008)

megsy said:
			
		

> I think someone should remind Dear Hugo that Colombia has a much better military...



Venezuelan Su-30s vs. Colombian Super Tucano's?
Venezuelan AMX-30s vs. Colombian... oh wait, colombia doesn't have any MBTs?


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## Colin Parkinson (4 Mar 2008)

Having seen the Venezuelan military up close and personal, I can't say that I was much impressed with their abilities. The Colombians have a fair bit of jungle warfare experience behind them and the only areas they would be vulnerable is in the coastal areas where Venezuela can use their armour more effectively.


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## Falange (4 Mar 2008)

That is right...

Colombia's combat wing consists of 12 Kfir fighters and 10 more were recently order to Israel, but most military spending goes to anti insurgency equipment and training. Probably, in matters of personel training Colombia is better, however Venezuela has spent A LOT of petro-dollars in war materiel. Maybe Colombia's navy has a better chance than the Venezuelan one but still the Colombian military is too overstretch dealing with the FARC. Certainly, a Venezuelan attack  would give the FARC an advantage to distabilize the country


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## Lumber (4 Mar 2008)

Falange said:
			
		

> Maybe Colombia's navy has a better chance than the Venezuelan one



The Colombian navy has the disadvantage of having coastal territory to defend in both the Pacific and the Atlantic, divided by Panama. Venezuela can concentrate its navy in the Atlantic.

Further, the Colombian navy has only 4 surface combatants. They do have the Exocet, but no SAM missiles. Would Su-30s make mince meat of them? Also, depending on which Block of Exocet and Otomat SSMs each is using, the Venezuelan SSMs could potentially out-range the Colombian's by a large distance (120km compared to 70km for Block I of each). As for subs, each only has two, both of the same German made model. 

I'm no expert, but it seems like, without knowing anything about the quality of training for either navy, that the Venezuelan's are better prepared for a naval engagement.

Lets just come out and say it! Who would win in a total war engagement, Venezuela or Colombia?


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## CougarKing (4 Mar 2008)

Lumber,

You seem to be just comparing Venezuela and Colombia. Aren't you forgetting that Ecuador sent some of its troops to its own border with Colombia? In one of the worse case scenarios, Correa could lead Ecuador to help Chavez in a war against Colombia, though it was stated by political/regional experts in the article the below quote was from that they doubt such a regional conflict will happen in spite of Chavez's recent saber-rattling against Colombia.



> Venezuela and Ecuador sent troops to their borders with Colombia on Sunday after their Andean neighbour bombed Colombian rebels inside Ecuador in an attack Caracas said could spark a war...
> 
> ..Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa, a close ally of the leftist, anti-U.S. Chavez, expelled Colombia's ambassador and recalled his own envoy from Bogota in protest over what he said was an intentional violation of his nation's sovereignty.



Perhaps that Pacific fleet of the Colombian Navy might help fight off any Ecuadorian amphibious landings? A quick online search shows that the Ecuadorian Navy has a few surface combatants, submarines and 1,000 Marines for its naval infantry.

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-3992.html

The article link is a little dated.


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## Mike Baker (4 Mar 2008)

Colombia: Rebels considering dirty bombs

GENEVA - Colombia's vice president claimed during a U.N. disarmament meeting Tuesday that the leftist guerrillas were trying to acquire radioactive material that could be used to make "dirty bombs." 

Ecuador's justice minister, meanwhile, told the U.N. Human Rights Council that Colombia violated its human rights obligations when its military staged an attack on Ecuador's soil that killed a key rebel leader.

Both bodies are in the same Palais des Nations complex that houses United Nations offices in Geneva, but it was unclear if Colombian Vice President Francisco Santos and Ecuadorean Justice Minister Gustavo Jalkh met face-to-face.

The regularly scheduled meetings of the panels came a day after Ecuador and Venezuela ordered troops to their borders with Colombia, expelled that country's diplomats and largely halted trade at key points along the frontier in response to Colombia's killing of Raul Reyes, a leader with the leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, on Saturday.

Speaking to the 65-nation Conference on Disarmament, Santos said evidence in two computers found with Reyes indicated FARC was apparently negotiating to acquire radioactive material — "the primary basis for generating dirty weapons of mass destruction and terrorism."

Colombian officials said Monday that investigators found documents suggesting the rebels had bought and sold uranium.

Santos said the discovery demonstrates that the economic power of drug trafficking is enabling terrorist groups "to constitute a serious threat not just to our country but to the entire Andean and Latin American region."

The guerrillas of FARC, who have been fighting for more than four decades, finance their operations largely through the cocaine trade.

Ecuador's Jalkh called the cross-border attack by Colombia a violation of his people's right to life and security and a violation of fundamental principles of peace and security.

Ecuador "energetically rejects any actions which violate its sovereignty and its integrity, particularly when its territory was intentionally bombed, setting at risk the human rights of Ecuadoreans," Jalkh told the 47-nation rights council.

"The international community will know that it must close ranks," he said, adding that Colombia's action "cannot be justified by any arguments."

Jalkh was responding to a Monday speech by Santos to the rights panel, in which he described Colombia as a peace-loving nation that was not looking for a wider war, but said it would stand firm in fighting terrorism and international drug trafficking.

Colombia has long complained that FARC rebels take refuge in Ecuador and Venezuela and accuses both countries of supporting the rebels financially and politically. Venezuela and Ecuador deny the allegations.


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## Lumber (4 Mar 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Perhaps that Pacific fleet of the Colombian Navy might help fight off any Ecuadorian amphibious landings? A quick online search shows that the Ecuadorian Navy has a few surface combatants, submarines and 1,000 Marines for its naval infantry.



I found they had a pair of confirmed operational patrol boats with Exocets, four corvettes with Exocets, and a pair of Patrol Frigates with no SSMs at all. 

http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/ecuador.htm

Their combat aircraft seem to fair better than the Colombians as well, with Mirages and Israeli Kfirs.

As you said, it seems that the Colombians army of 400+ thousand troops (apparently not including support like cooks) is mostly engaged in a counterinsurgency role. 

Despite their superior equipment, the Venezuelan military has only a TOTAL of 88k troops, add Ecuador's 60k and you have 148k, Army, Navy and Air combined.

So who wins? Colombia's huge numerical advantage or Venezuela's superior equipment? 

Maybe someone knows something at all about the quality of training of these two nations that we could use to compare?


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## tomahawk6 (4 Mar 2008)

Dont forget Brazil. Brazil is no friend of Chavez and could be expected to join forces with Colombia. The US would provide support to Colombia. If Chavez is stupid enough to start a war he better hope his own military doesnt turn on him. It looks like a perfect time for a coup.


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## Greymatters (4 Mar 2008)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Dont forget Brazil. Brazil is no friend of Chavez and could be expected to join forces with Colombia. The US would provide support to Colombia. If Chavez is stupid enough to start a war he better hope his own military doesnt turn on him. It looks like a perfect time for a coup.



I used to argue that he should get some 'benefit of the doubt' consideration due to his popular support, but he is really going off the deep end these days.  Time for him to trade in his snappy beret for a tin foil hat, and this must be just as transparent to his supporters...


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## tomahawk6 (5 Mar 2008)

Chavez doesnt have the support he wants people to believe. He is using this situation as a pretext to accumulate more power.I dont see Chavez actually attacking Colombia he has alot to lose. The units he is deploying to the border are either reliable[which I doubt] or are units he doesnt trust and wants to keep them far away from the capitol. If he has deployed troops he trusts then the door is open for a coup.


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## Colin Parkinson (5 Mar 2008)

This was taken from Tanknet, from a fellow who lives there to give some of the tactical background:



> On the military front, there is still no sign of any troop movements towards Colombia. If there are any movements I would expect them to be focused on the Guajira peninsula. The only territory along the 2200km border suitable for an armored thurst is there. However, even if successful it won't get very far. There is a single road across the peninsula into Colombia and it really accomplishes nothing. The llamos (plains) have very soft ground and no roads at all, the Amazon region is even worse, and that only leaves the Andes. Chavez may push on Cucuta from San Cristobal, but the mountain terrain and the build up areas would play into the Colombian defenders hands. The reality of for the Venezuelan Army is that they won't be able to support their deployment on the border, let alone a mayor offensive or even a couple of weeks of combat ops.


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## old medic (6 Mar 2008)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/03/06/nic.colombia/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

 Nicaragua breaks diplomatic relations with Colombia



> (CNN) -- Nicaragua President Daniel Ortega said Thursday that the nation is breaking relations with Colombia "in solidarity with the Ecuadoran people."
> 
> The move comes after the Organization of American States passed a resolution Wednesday in hopes of easing tensions stemming from an attack by Colombian military on a rebel camp in neighboring Ecuador on Saturday.
> 
> ...


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## Colin Parkinson (6 Mar 2008)

More from the same source on Tanknet, who I might add is NOT sending Chavez any christmas cards.  



> Ironically, Correa arrived in Caracas soon after the agreement was drafted, where he proceeded to have a joint press conference with Chavez. At the conference, which was forced upon all TV and radion stations, Chavez continued his verban offensive against Colombia and announced the end of all trade with that country. I still haven't found an english source, but we are talking about a 6 billion $US market for Colombia and a major source for Venezuelan food. Apparently Chavez forgot that we have a slight problem with shortage of basic food items, which Colombia is providing. Ironically Chavez is suffering at home due to the shortages, which people correctly percieve to be the fault of his policies. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.



Also

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home


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## CougarKing (6 Mar 2008)

old medic said:
			
		

> http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/03/06/nic.colombia/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
> 
> Nicaragua breaks diplomatic relations with Colombia



Greattt....maybe Lumber should include Nicaraguan forces in his speculation/scenarios of a war between Colombia and its neighbors, even if Colombia does not share any borders with Nicaragua. Perhaps we underestimated the pull/influence that Chavez has on his fellow OAS members who are also left-leaning, besides an Ecuador led by Pres. Correa.


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## Danjanou (6 Mar 2008)

Ok it’s been a few years since I’ve been in the region ( a vacation to San Andres last year really don’t count) so my info is dated.

Naval I’d give the edge to Colombia, most of their larger surface assets are in the Caribbean at Cartagena, Barranquilla,  and San Andres and more than sufficient to deal with Chaves small costal forces. The Colombian N 1st Naval Infantry Bn (Marines) based in Cartagena are some nasty characters (good party guys too).

On land again the edge. Chavez’s troops have spent too much stime swaggering around and occasionally terrorizing locals in the barrios. The last war they fought they were lead by Simon Bolivar. Colombian has by South American standards a good and well experienced army. They should be able to keep up the pressure on FARC, hold the Ecuadorians at the border and give Chazvez a bloody nose. The Colombian Venezuelan border region on the Amazon is FARC country so count on the Colombian’s knowing the ground, another huge advantage.

Venezuela and Ecuador probably on paper have the advantage in the air but in reality maybe not. I remember a few years back Chavez had some great idea to reclaim the ABC islands off of  his coast from the Dutch using his military but then decided against it. Considering the RNAF would have had to stage any air and naval counter actions from St Marteen over a 1000 kms away he should have been able to pull off a Falklands type scenario fairly easily but he didn’t follow through. Maybe his airforce isn’t as good as he pretends it to be. Besides isn’;t he still using our old CF-5s?

Finally As T6 suggests there are more than a few other Latin American countries pissed off with Chavez now and a chance to help take him down for their own reasons can’t be not considered. No one would risk going against him if it was Chavez versus the Yanquis  for PR reasons, but supporting another smaller Latin America state that was attacked by Chavez the bully is another matter.


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## old medic (6 Mar 2008)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080306/Venezuela_Colombia_080306/20080306?hub=World

Associated Press article

Venezuela: Colombia trade 'Coming down'

Updated Thu. Mar. 6 2008 1:58 PM ET

The Associated Press





> CARACAS, Venezuela -- Venezuela is starting to block billions of dollars in Colombian imports and investment under orders from President Hugo Chavez, threatening economic havoc in both nations in response to a Colombian military attack on rebels hiding in Ecuador.
> 
> Chavez and Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa demanded international condemnation of Colombia's U.S.-allied government on Wednesday night, while Chavez predicted a sharp fall in the $6 billion annual Colombia-Venezuela trade: "That's coming down."
> 
> ...


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## Danjanou (6 Mar 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Greattt....maybe Lumber should include Nicaraguan forces in his speculation/scenarios of a war between Colombia and its neighbors, even if Colombia does not share any borders with Nicaragua. Perhaps we underestimated the pull/influence that Chavez has on his fellow OAS members who are also left-leaning, besides Correa.



Ortega is still an old Sandanista  and Nicaragua has always coveted San Andres Island which is off it's coast.


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## Old Sweat (6 Mar 2008)

Remember that Colombia lost was is now Panama in the early years of the 20th Century so that the Panama Canal could be built.


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## CougarKing (6 Mar 2008)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Ortega is still an old Sandanista  and Nicaragua has always coveted San Andres Island which is off it's coast.



I am willing to bet that Bolivia- which is currently ruled by the left-leaning Evo Morales, who is also another Chavez ally, IIRC- might almost certainly be the next to break off diplomatic relations.

Danjanou,

Hmm...in a worse case scenario- with Nicaragua, Bolivia added to the Venezuela and Ecuador vs. Colombia equation, will the addition of forces from these two other nations equalize/negate the land force advantage that Colombia has?

Doing a quick search on wikipedia shows the following:

-Nicaragua has 14,000 troops from all services (though Nicaragua does not share any borders with Colombia)

-Bolivia has 31,500 troops in its army  (though Bolivia is a land-locked country that does not share any borders with Colombia or any of Chavez's allies)

-As Lumber also stated earlier, Venezuela and Ecuador combined have a total of 148,000 servicemen from all services, while Colombia's Army has about 420,000 men, IIRC. 

Comparing numbers on paper is one thing, but all of you are well aware that there is more that decides an outcome in war than paper strengths, such as quality of training of the troops in question.


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## Old Sweat (6 Mar 2008)

It seems to me that Bolivia has serious internal difficulties with part of the country verging on secessionist. If landlocked Bolivia did attempt to go to war with Colombia, there is the problem of getting to the front, perhaps through Peru and then Ecuador. 

I am not sure of what Peru might do; it does have a left leaning government, but would be wary of Ecuador, as Peru siezed about a third of its territory in a war. I suspect it would prefer to see Colombia remain strong and intact as a counterbalance to Ecuador and Venezuela.


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## Lumber (6 Mar 2008)

While I did my best to take into account troops numbers, training and quality of equipment, I know very little about real-life military strategy (although I'll kick your butt in Company of Heroes )  and I could only do my best to interpret the data I could collect.

That being said, I'll trust this guy:



> Gates added that the United States would not need to assist its Colombian allies should armed conflict break out.
> 
> "My personal view is that there is relatively little likelihood of a military conflict between them, and *my further impression is that the Colombians can take care of themselves*," he said at the Pentagon.


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## CougarKing (7 Mar 2008)

Which article did you quote this excerpt from, Lumber? I've skimmed over the articles posted on this forum and did not find it.



> Gates added that the United States would not need to assist its Colombian allies should armed conflict break out.
> 
> "My personal view is that there is relatively little likelihood of a military conflict between them, and my further impression is that the Colombians can take care of themselves," he said at the Pentagon.


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## tomahawk6 (7 Mar 2008)

Dont worry about a shooting war.This is going to be an economic war of sorts. With the state of Venezuela's economy it wont take much to get the students and working folk out into the streets.


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## Lumber (7 Mar 2008)

CougarDaddy said:
			
		

> Which article did you quote that from, Lumber? I've skimmed over the articles posted on this forum and did not find it.



Sorry, should have provided a link.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/03/06/nic.colombia/index.html?iref=newssearch

It's from the very bottom.


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## Danjanou (7 Mar 2008)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Dont worry about a shooting war.This is going to be an economic war of sorts. With the state of Venezuela's economy it wont take much to get the students and working folk out into the streets.



Probably right with the obligatory machismo saber rattling for the TV cameras tossed in.  As Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Colombia aren't exactly economic super powers either this may dissolve into a Latino version of two little fat kids slap fighting in the playground.


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## Lumber (7 Mar 2008)

Well, there goes the fun,
and by fun I mean the fun of analyzing.
Actaul war would not be fun.



> The presidents of Ecuador, Venezuela and Colombia have shaken hands at a regional summit, marking the end of a diplomatic crisis in the Andean region.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7284597.stm


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## tomahawk6 (7 Mar 2008)

A border incident  ;D
Rough translation.
http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/?p=12667

In a confused incident, a unit of the DISIP (Venezuelan Security forces) has crossed the frontier and has penetrated into Colombian territory in Paraguachón. The inhabitants have surrounded the patrol and they have not allowed that the Venezuelan officials to recover the patrol.

Apparently, the unit of the DISIP was recovering a vehicle. The group of citizens of Paraguachón has exchanged insults against the DISIP of Venezuela and, with their aggressive attitude, units of the National Guard have crossed the border to help them and to protect them.

After minutes of tension, the situation returned to the calm but the vehicle of the DISIP still is in Colombian territory surrounded by the inhabitants of the locality. Colombian police units have approached the place.


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## tomahawk6 (7 Mar 2008)

Uribe shames President Correa. 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080307/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/colombia_venezuela_55

SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic - Colombian President Alvaro Uribe said Friday that Colombian rebels helped Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa get elected, citing as evidence a rebel's letter seized during a cross-border raid that has sparked an international crisis.

Correa walked out of the 20-nation Rio Group summit after the accusation, but an aide said he had merely gone to the bathroom. As other leaders complained, Uribe waited for Correa to return before continuing.

Uribe said his forces seized a letter during their raid Saturday on a rebel camp just across the border with Ecuador in which Raul Reyes — the rebel leader killed in the raid — told the guerrillas' top commander about "aid delivered to Rafael Correa, as instructed."

Correa, who has broken off relations with Colombia and sent troops to the border over the raid, denounced the accusation and proposed an international peacekeeping force to guard the Colombian-Ecuadorean border.

"I reject this infamy that the government of Rafael Correa has collaborated with the FARC," Correa bellowed into the microphone as he accused Uribe of lying. His comments drew loud applause from other leaders, who met Uribe's speech with silence.

The summit was to have focused on energy and other issues, but those were overshadowed by the diplomatic crisis in the Andes after the deadly Colombian cross-border raid into Ecuador on Saturday that killed a senior Colombian rebel and 24 others.

It began quietly, with the host, Dominican President Leonel Fernandez, appealing for unity. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said it was time to cool tensions and predicted the summit "is going to be positive."

"People should go cool off a bit, chill out their nerves," Chavez said before the summit started. "I think the meeting today is going to be positive, because it is going to help the debate. We have to debate, talk, and this is the first step toward finding the road."

But the accusations began quickly, with Correa criticizing "the aggression of Colombia" and Uribe saying that Correa is a dishonest partner in the fight against the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC.

"We didn't inform him (of the raid) because we have not had cooperation from the government of President Correa in the fight against terrorism," Uribe said.

Latin American foreign ministers on Thursday drafted a statement saying national sovereignty must be respected. The draft, to be submitted to the presidents on Friday, mirrors one earlier in the week from the Organization of American States, said Chilean Foreign Minister Alejandro Foxley.

Chavez has ordered thousands of troops and tanks to Venezuela's border with Colombia and threatened to slash trade and nationalize Colombian-owned businesses. Correa has also sent troops to the border, although Uribe has said he won't do the same.

The summit marks the first face-to-face encounters between Chavez, Correa and Uribe since the international crisis began.

Correa told reporters he wants Uribe to apologize for the attack in Ecuadorean territory and give his "formal and firm commitment" that Colombia will never "violate" the sovereignty of another country.

On his arrival in Santo Domingo late Thursday, Chavez claimed the strike was "planned and directed by the United States." Later, he said he had information that "gringo soldiers" participated in the attack, but provided no evidence.

U.S. Southern Command spokesman Jose Ruiz neither confirmed or denied this week that the U.S. military took part in the attack. The latest body was discovered Thursday, according to Ecuador's security minister, Gustavo Larrea.

Uribe is hugely popular among Colombians cracking down on the FARC, which finances itself through kidnapping and drug trafficking.

Nicaragua, a leftist ally of Venezuela and Ecuador, broke relations with Colombia on Thursday. 

The attack also cut off all contacts between the rebels and France, where the freedom of French-Colombian hostage Ingrid Betancourt has become a national cause, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said Friday. 

Uribe has refused to rule out future military incursions into Ecuador or Venezuela, saying he first needs assurances from Correa and Chavez that they are not harboring rebels. 

One of the rare regional voices offering support for Colombia was Salvadoran President Tony Saca, who said the Colombian government should be able to defend its citizens. 

"We need to understand Colombia has the legitimate right to go after terrorists ... wherever they may be, of course without harming the sovereignty of another country," Saca said


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## cameron (2 Jul 2008)

Hello guys

If someone has posted this story already forgive me but I just signed onto the internet and saw the story on Yahoo! news that Betancourt and several other hostages were rescued without a shot being fired by Colombian specop helicopter pilots and spies masquerading as guerillas.  I'm going to listen to the BBC News at the top of the hour and see if I can hear more details but kudos to the Colombian intelligence and special forces community and thank God those hostages are now safe and sound.  Lets hope the remaining hostages will soon gain their freedom too.  Again to the Colombian forces


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## Colin Parkinson (2 Jul 2008)

FARC sure seems to be falling apart lately, I wonder if this is the begining of the end as major insurgent?


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## Mike Baker (2 Jul 2008)

Heres a link


-Dead


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## wannabe SF member (2 Jul 2008)

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/ap/20080702/twl-colombie-otages-betancourt-5c16fb8.html


It's just out.

The French-Colombian hostage has finally been freed after 6 years of detention by the FARC.


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## King Elessar (3 Jul 2008)

props to the Colombians for coming up with that brilliant plan to free those hostages.


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## old medic (19 Jan 2009)

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-colombia-farc19-2009jan19,0,5274066.story


Shine is off FARC rebel army
Desertions rise as status and perks are replaced with constant harassment by the Colombian army. But the guerrilla group is known for its resilience.
By Chris Kraul
January 19, 2009



> Reporting from Villarrica, Colombia -- Life was good for "Ernesto" when he joined Colombia's largest rebel group at age 14. He loved the leftist fighters' swagger, the perfumed rebel groupies and the stolen SUVs he and his buddies drove unchallenged over the roads of this cattle- and coffee-growing zone.
> 
> But eight years later, Ernesto's life as a foot soldier in the 25th Front of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, had lost its charm. Gone were the status and the free-spending ways, a lifestyle financed by kidnappings and extortions here in the west-central state of Tolima.
> 
> ...


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## old medic (1 Mar 2009)

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-colombia1-2009mar01,0,7985218.story

FARC caches located in caves
Colombian officials had been searching for the hide-outs for years. They find weapons and medical supplies.
Reuters  March 1, 2009



> La Macarena, Colombia -- Colombian soldiers have unearthed guerrilla hide-outs in caves deep in the jungles where rebels evaded attacks, stashed land mines and stored medical supplies, authorities said Saturday.
> 
> Colombia's largest rebel group, the leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, has been battered by President Alvaro Uribe's U.S.-backed offensive, which has driven guerrillas deep into jungles and mountains.
> 
> ...


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## Danjanou (1 Mar 2009)

During the bad old days of the Cold War FARC received the majority of its financial support and weapons from the Soviet Bloc via Cuba. The actual cost of support was minimal for the Soviets in return for a running sore in the West’s southern flank.

Post 1990-93 the Soviets were gone and Castro could barely feed his own much less continue to export the revolution. FARC was able to maintain itself by switching to the profitable narco trade and kidnapping. Actually they were able to move into the vacuum made as the Cartels began to lose power. There was a three-way war being waged between The Government and their military and para militaries, the Cartels, and FARC.

Most of the Government effort supported by the US was directed at the Cartels leaving FARC alone and giving them time to regroup and eventually move in and take over the Cartels drug trade. Problem is it’s now a two way war and as FARC are now the drug lords the US aid continues to flow in down there.  Also hard to keep selling yourself as agrarian Marxist freedom fighter to the local peasantry you need to support you when you kidnapping locals and shilling coke.

Hopefully they're now on the way out.


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## Colin Parkinson (15 May 2009)

5 part series on youtube about Narco-subs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVQgjeUWzOc


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## daftandbarmy (15 May 2009)

I know a couple of people moving to Columbia this week to start up a (legal) business. I'll have fun sending them the articles in this thread and seeing their reaction. Being 'typical' Canadians, I'm sure they'll be horrified...


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## CougarKing (29 Jul 2009)

Seems Hugo Chavez again wants to stir the pot with his neighbour Colombia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8173709.stm



> Chavez freezes ties with Colombia
> 
> Hugo Chavez strongly denies supplying weapons to Colombian rebels
> Venezuela is withdrawing its ambassador from neighbouring Colombia and freezing relations, following a dispute over weapons supplied to Colombian rebels.
> ...


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## old medic (1 Mar 2010)

Venezuela accused of collaborating with Basque separatists in assassination plot

Spanish judge charges six members of ETA, seven members of Colombian leftist group charged with planning to kill Colombia's president

The Associated Press 
01 March 2010
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/venezuela-accused-of-collaborating-with-basque-separatists-in-assassination-plot/article1485099/



> A Spanish judge has accused Venezuela of collaborating with Basque separatists and Colombian rebels, and says these two groups plotted to assassinate Colombia's president.
> 
> Judge Eloy Velasco made the allegation Monday in a 26-page indictment in which he charged six members of the Basque group ETA, most of them exiled in Latin America, and seven members of the Colombian leftist rebel group FARC with a variety of crimes including terrorism and conspiracy to commit murder.


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