# Applying for ROTP question/advice



## monkey-leader (11 Dec 2010)

Hi,

I'm applying for the ROTP, hopefully through RMC Kingston. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on my admission essay (Part 11 - Reasons for attending RMC).

Here it is:

I am very much interested in pursuing a challenging career with the Canadian Forces, in a leadership role. In order to do this I will need to complete university. When given the choice of attending the Royal Military College or another university I chose to attend the Royal Military College (Kingston) hands down. I feel that pursuing an education at the Royal Military College of Canada will give me the best possible tools in order to have a long career Canadian Forces. Many of these tools are not available at other Canadian schools. 

It is obvious to me that in order to successfully lead, you need the leadership tools and abilities to do so. The military side of the college provides practical training for a leadership role in the military. Also, things like drill, shooting, ceremony and other military exercises are not offered by other schools, and these are the types of things used day to day. This is appealing to me, as you gain an immediate advantage for entry into the military.

My choices of military grouping fall directly in line with the degrees offered my the Royal Military College. Choosing Infantry, Armour and Artillery as my choices of military grouping make the Military & Strategic Studies program a very good choice for me. Military & Strategic Studies is somewhat specialized and is not offered on the eastern seaboard other than at Royal Military College.

Camaraderie at the Royal Military College is something that holds value to me. The strong athletic presence, breed discipline as well as respect. Team sports, or any sport for that matter, lead to making good friends. If I'm lucky enough to attend the Royal Military College, the friends I make could very well last throughout my career. While almost every school offers sporting programs, few of the friends you make will end up in the same occupation. 

If you will consider me, I would be glad to discuss my reasons in greater detail. 

Thank you for your time,


Any useful input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


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## monkey-leader (12 Dec 2010)

OK, I've made some changes and updated it.

Dont know how I missed that stuff in cegep/university...  :'(


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## Franko (12 Dec 2010)

If that's what is now the norm in as far as essays, that one is all fluff and no substance.

No clear goal, no expanding on why you want to go, no research into the place itself or the CF for that matter.

I'm sorry, but a few sentences do not make an essay.

Regards


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## 57Chevy (12 Dec 2010)

monkey-leader said:
			
		

> To the best of my knowledge, military studies is somewhat specialized and is not offered anywhere else other than the Royal Military College. This makes attending the Royal Military College a neccesity in order to ensure that I am prepared to the fullest extent possible.
> 
> In at a close third, I feel that the amount of camaraderie at the Royal Military College is something that holds great value. Camaraderie is important, to me, because it can be that extra motivation to move forward in a tough situation. Also, the friendships that I may make could possible last throughout my career. I don't think many other places can offer this.
> 
> These are only a few of the major reasons for my application to the Royal Military College and why I feel that it is the best choice for me. If you will consider me[/color], I would be glad to discuss my reasons in greater detail.


For starters;
You can start by working on those things that I took the liberty to make pink.
What Panzer said should be ringing bells.
Also.....Essays require thorough research so take the time to do it.


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## monkey-leader (12 Dec 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> If that's what is now the norm in as far as essays, that one is all fluff and no substance.
> 
> No clear goal, no expanding on why you want to go, no research into the place itself or the CF for that matter.
> 
> ...



OK, i did not know that was part of the question. I assumed that my intentions would have been made clear earlier in my applicationh. I even tried not to sway from the question. I am interested in making a career in the forces, i will try to work it in with my limited english abilities...


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## Franko (12 Dec 2010)

monkey-leader said:
			
		

> OK, i did not know that was part of the question. I assumed that my intentions would have been made clear earlier in my applicationh. I even tried not to sway from the question. I am interested in making a career in the forces, i will try to work it in with my limited english abilities...



You never said anything about your limited vocabulary, you ask for opinions and you got them.

You could write it in French as well.

Regards


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## monkey-leader (12 Dec 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> You never said anything about your limited vocabulary, you ask for opinions and you got them.
> 
> You could write it in French as well.
> 
> Regards



No, I'm anglophone. Just out of practice. I asked for input and got it, thanks. Dont worry for one second about hurting my feelings...

I've modified the text again.


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## infamous_p (12 Dec 2010)

monkey-leader said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I'm applying for the ROTP, hopefully through RMC Kingston. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on my admission essay (Part 11 - Reasons for attending RMC).
> 
> ...



Re-word the bolded sentence above to remove the words "hands down". "Hands down" is a very informal, slang phrase that one would use in casual conversation and I would say it isn't appropriate for use in a semi-formal essay. Using that phrase sounds unprofessional and slightly juvenile (don't take that the wrong way at all, I don't mean that as an insult). I'd suggest rewording that particular sentence to express your desire to attend RMC in a different way, for example: "If given the choice between attending a civilian university or RMC, I would choose RMC without hesitation for the following reasons." (and then use the remainder of your essay to explain and elaborate on those reasons).

With regards to Der P, I somewhat agree with him, however I do believe you're on the right track. You're demonstrating a passion to attend an institution for a variety of great reasons, however you do need to substantiate them a little bit more. Try to use specific examples to justify and substantiate your reasons for wanting to attend RMC.


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## George Wallace (12 Dec 2010)

infamous_p said:
			
		

> Re-word the bolded sentence above to remove the words "hands down". "Hands down" is a very informal, slang phrase that one would use in casual conversation and I would say it isn't appropriate for use in a semi-formal essay. Using that phrase sounds unprofessional and .........



monkey-leader


Just out of curiosity; who is writting this essay?  You or us?


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## monkey-leader (12 Dec 2010)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> monkey-leader
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity; who is writting this essay?  You or us?



I am writing it as well as asking for constructive criticism. I am trying to keep it my own, no matter how badly my writing is bashed. There have been some very good points made, and I am thankful for them.

Is the fact that I'm asking for input somehow a bad thing? I just want to make sure that I am sending the right message with my essay. If you all think that I shouldn't seek advice then I will delete this post.


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## ballz (12 Dec 2010)

monkey-leader said:
			
		

> Is the fact that I'm asking for input somehow a bad thing? I just want to make sure that I am sending the right message with my essay. If you all think that I shouldn't seek advice then I will delete this post.



Don't take it too personally. Asking for advice and whatnot is fine and generally encouraged as has been stated by other posters. At least you're showing you care.

However, I think where you are asking is a little misplaced. I am going to PM you the basic, easy-to-figure out format for a persuasive essay (as you should be looking at this as an opportunity to convince the readers that you know what you are signing up for and are the right fit for it), and any detailed questions you have I would suggest you seek that advice from an english teacher / professor... and not the one that taught you in high school because somewhere something between you and that person did not produce the results that are generally expected by a university (no offense).


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## 57Chevy (12 Dec 2010)

I went and dug up a couple of sites for you to check over for some pointers ;D

Royal Military College of Canada: A description

How to write a university application essay

Some pretty interesting facts :nod:
Have a good one
 :yellow:


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## monkey-leader (12 Dec 2010)

thanks for the links. indeed helpful. i think i will try to give some reasons why im a good fit for rmc.


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## Franko (12 Dec 2010)

monkey-leader said:
			
		

> thanks for the links. indeed helpful. i think i will try to give some reasons why im a good fit for rmc.



You seriously need to brush up on your English grammar. 

Regards


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## monkey-leader (13 Dec 2010)

Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> You seriously need to brush up on your English grammar.
> 
> Regards



Do I know you from somewhere? You really have it out for me... iper:

Sorry for the poor grammar. I posted that from a phone. Not to overstep, but please keep the posts on topic.


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## monkey-leader (13 Dec 2010)

MGalantine said:
			
		

> Can I just point out the irony of a new poster telling Directing Staff to keep posts on topic?


^Post working as intended^

It's not a reference to N.C.M.s. In retrospect, I can see how that was a poor choice of handles for this particular context.  :-[ It's been a generic forum handle of mine for quite some time, I mean nothing by it.

I am flattered that you think I will make the cut. I will ensure that my posts are up to standard from now on.


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## Franko (13 Dec 2010)

monkey-leader said:
			
		

> Do I know you from somewhere? You really have it out for me... iper:
> 
> Sorry for the poor grammar. I posted that from a phone. Not to overstep, but please keep the posts on topic.




Really? 

You're the one breaching the site's Guidelines, you know...the ones that _*you *_agreed to when you signed up on this site.

Here they are again-

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html


Take a look at this one specifically-



> *Posting to the Boards*
> 
> *You are responsible for everything that you post and the tone in which it is posted.*
> 
> ...



Also, how about this one-



> *Cooperation with Directing Staff (Moderators)*
> 
> In order to keep things running smoothly, the Directing Staff take an active role in day to day operations. We've found that some users are surprised by this "hands on" approach, especially those who are used to sites where moderators are not heavily involved. It is expected that everyone using this site will respect the authority given to the Staff. They volunteer their time and have been selected based on a proven track record at this site. They are charged with the policing of this site. Diplomatic criticism and debate of their role is accepted and encouraged. However, any hostile challenges to their authority will not be tolerated. If you feel you have been treated inappropriately, please send me a Private Message (PM) including details on the incident.



I've pointed out errors in your posts and you're trying to apply to RMC and had asked for help. I gave you my opinion and a nudge to correct your *grammar *and syntax.

I really don't care if you've posted from a phone or an Etch-a-Sketch. Sort yourself out or you're on the ramp.

*The Army.ca Staff*


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## monkey-leader (13 Dec 2010)

My original post can no longer be modified. Here is an updated version.

I wish to pursue a challenging career with the Canadian Forces, in a leadership role. In order to do this I will need to complete university. If given the choice of attending the Royal Military College or a civilian university I would chose to attend the Royal Military College (Kingston) for many important reasons. The environment alone provides many beneficial skills for an Armed Forces officer. Pursuing an education at the Royal Military College of Canada will also give me the best possible education in order to have a long career Canadian Forces. Not to mention the fact that attending school with the people you may very well serve with provides a level of camaraderie not offered by civilian institutions. These traits provide the best possible training ground for an aspiring officer.

In order to successfully lead, certain leadership tools and abilities are required. The military side of the Royal Military College developes these through practical training and exercises. Many skills obtained through drill, shooting, ceremony and other military exercises are not offered by civilian schools, and these are the type skills used on a regular basis. By attending the Royal Military College you gain an immediate advantage for entry into the military. This advantage should make whatever training I receive upon entry that much more familiar, leaving more time to work on leading.

The Royal Military College offers the most beneficial program for my entry into the Canadian Forces. Choosing Infantry, Armour and Artillery as my choices of military grouping make the Military & Strategic Studies program a good choice. I did not choose this degree because it is the top rated degree for my chosen groupings. I chose this degree due to the fact that my chosen groupings are potentially very dangerous to the insufficiently prepared individual. Having a background in military strategy would be extremely advantageous over a civilian background in a bad situation. Military & Strategic Studies is somewhat specialized and is not offered on the eastern seaboard other than at Royal Military College. This makes the Royal Military College the best option in order to pursue this program.

Camaraderie at the Royal Military College is something that holds value. The strong athletic environment, breeds discipline as well as respect. This kind of environment leads to making good friends. Attending the Royal Military College could mean that the friends made could very well last throughout a career. While almost every school offers sporting programs, few of the friends you make will end up in the same occupation. This makes the Royal Military College stand out in that aspect.

There are other universities that can offer an education. Unfortunately, none of them really offer the kind of educational experience that I could have at the Royal Military College. They can't prepare me for a military career in the same manner.

Looking forward, I can see how attending the Royal Military College provides a huge advantage when working in a military environment. Civilian universities are not geared towards the same result. Tough attending the Royal Military College is not necessary for the Regular Officer Training Program it does have many advantages over civilian universities. At the end of the day, I only want to be as well prepared as possible for whatever may come. This is why I chose the Royal Military College.

If you will consider me, I would be glad to discuss my reasons in greater detail.


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## George Wallace (13 Dec 2010)

It is not kosher to go in an modify your posts after someone has replied to them.  Your credibility is greatly reduced when you do.......You may come off as a troll.


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## monkey-leader (13 Dec 2010)

I see. My only intent was to keep the thread from growing very long due to revisions.


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## 57Chevy (13 Dec 2010)

I am glad to see that you were unable to make any further amendments.

Showing new revisions to your initial post would help others
who may be writing similar entrance essays.


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## ballz (13 Dec 2010)

Much better, biggest suggestion would be to add some hard evidence to support your claims in paragraph's 2, 3, and 4, even if it's just a quote by someone notable about leadership that applies to your argument. It's better, for example, if Winston Churchill or George Washington of Sun Tzu has already had something to say on the topic, than just you saying it.

EDIT to add another critique:



			
				monkey-leader said:
			
		

> I wish to pursue a challenging career with the Canadian Forces, in a leadership role. In order to do this I will need to complete university. If given the choice of attending the Royal Military College or a civilian university I would chose to attend the Royal Military College (Kingston) for many important reasons. The environment alone provides many beneficial skills for an Armed Forces officer. Pursuing an education at the Royal Military College of Canada will also give me the best possible education in order to have a long career Canadian Forces. Not to mention the fact that  attending school with the people you may very well serve with provides a level of camaraderie not offered by civilian institutions. These traits provide the best possible training ground for an aspiring officer.There are other universities that can offer an education. Unfortunately, none of them really offer the kind of educational experience that I could have at the Royal Military College. They can't prepare me for a military career in the same manner.



Still playing with some informal speech patterns though. Tour goal here is to communicate clearly and concisely, and while it's good if to come across as intelligent, it is your arguments and the facts you use to prove them that will achieve that.

Don't use ten words when five will do, and don't use five if you can get it down to three. Instead of "not to mention the fact that," you could have used "not to mention that," (that is still informal of course, but see how you added unnecessary words?), and even better would be a simple "Also, ..." See how I just turned six words into one, and now your actual point makes up a much larger portion of the sentence (which means the reader isn't sifting through a bunch of meaningless babble).

"Not to mention the fact that attending school with the people you may very well serve with provides a level of camaraderie not offered by civilian institutions."

vs.

"Also, attending school with people you will serve with provides a high level of camaraderie not offered elsewhere."


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## monkey-leader (13 Dec 2010)

Thanks. I will try to find some relevant material outside of the RCM information, thats a great idea.


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## TangoTwoBravo (13 Dec 2010)

monkey-leader said:
			
		

> In order to successfully lead, certain leadership tools and abilities are required. The military side of the Royal Military College developes these through practical training and exercises. Many skills obtained through drill, shooting, ceremony and other military exercises are not offered by civilian schools, and these are the type skills used on a regular basis. By attending the Royal Military College you gain an immediate advantage for entry into the military. This advantage should make whatever training I receive upon entry that much more familiar, leaving more time to work on leading.



If you are in RMC then you have joined the military. You don't go to RMC and then enter into the Canadian Forces. You undergo training in your branch during the summer and at the end of your degree. That Developmental Period 1 (DP1) training you receive is what prepares you for your first assignment. Everyone gets that training. If you are going Infantry, Artillery or Armoured then you will spend summers in Gagetown at the Combat Training Centre learning what you need to know in the company of fellow new officers from all entry programs.


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## monkey-leader (14 Dec 2010)

True, I've re-phrased the end of that paragraph to reflect this, as well as remove some redundancy. Thanks. 

These skills provide an immediate advantage for future military training, leaving more time to work on new material.


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## monkey-leader (14 Dec 2010)

Alright, I've added 3 quotes and trimmed a bit more. I'm on the fence as to whether I should include the quote by Confucius.

    I wish to pursue a challenging career with the Canadian Forces, in a leadership role. In order to do this I will need to complete university. If given the choice of attending the Royal Military College or a civilian university I would chose to attend the Royal Military College (Kingston) for many important reasons. The environment alone provides many beneficial skills for an Armed Forces officer. Pursuing an education at the Royal Military College of Canada will give me the best possible education in order to have a long career Canadian Forces. Also, attending school with the people you may very well serve with provides a level of camaraderie not offered by civilian institutions. These traits provide the best possible training ground for an aspiring officer.

    In order to successfully lead, certain leadership tools and abilities are required. The military side of the Royal Military College develops these through practical training and exercises. Many skills obtained through drill, shooting, ceremony and other military exercises are not offered by civilian schools, and these are the type skills used on a regular basis. These skills provide an immediate advantage for future military training, leaving more time to work on new material.

_Success depends upon previous preparation, and without such preparation there is sure to be failure _
Confucius, 551-479 BC​
    The Royal Military College offers the most beneficial program for a Canadian Forces soldier. Choosing Infantry, Armour and Artillery as my choices of military grouping makes the Military & Strategic Studies program a good choice. I did not choose this degree because it is the top rated degree for my chosen groupings. I chose this degree due to the fact that my chosen groupings are potentially very dangerous to the insufficiently prepared individual. Having a background in military strategy would be extremely advantageous over a civilian background in a bad situation.

_Even if a man does not have the inborn ability to fight, he can become a warrior by consistently practicing these ways._ 
The Book of Five Rings , Miyamoto Musashi, 1585-1645​
Military & Strategic Studies is somewhat specialized and is not offered on the eastern seaboard other than at Royal Military College. This makes the Royal Military College the best option in order to pursue this program.

    Camaraderie at the Royal Military College is something that holds value. The strong athletic environment, breeds discipline as well as respect. This kind of environment leads to making good friends. Attending the Royal Military College could mean that the friends made could very well last throughout a career. 

_In a group in which people have truly bonded, moods and emotions are so contagious that it becomes easy to infect your troops with enthusiasm._
The 33 Strategies of War, Robert Greene, 2006​
While almost every school offers sporting programs, few of the friends you make will end up in the same occupation. This makes the Royal Military College stand out in that aspect.

    There are other universities that can offer an education. Unfortunately, none of them really offer the kind of educational experience that I could have at the Royal Military College. They can't prepare me for a military career in the same manner.

    Looking forward, I see how attending the Royal Military College provides a huge advantage when working in a military environment. Civilian universities are not geared towards the same result. Though attending the Royal Military College is not necessary for the Regular Officer Training Program it does have many advantages over civilian universities. At the end of the day, I only want to be as well prepared as possible for whatever may come. This is why I chose the Royal Military College.


Also, what style of bibliography is standard for the CF?


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## monkey-leader (14 Dec 2010)

Dear Forum,

Thank you all for your help with my application essay.

I especially appreciate the advice given as to what the Armed Forces expects of me. Your assistance has been invaluable.

Again, thank you so much. I greatly appreciate your generosity.

Best Regards


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