# From Pte to General, has it ever been done???



## JBP (15 Aug 2004)

Okay, as I see it now days, you normally enter the CF as a Private, NCM, or Officer, usually through the ROTP.

I've heard stories back in the day of Privates making it through to Officer ranks! WW2 and the like...

Is it possible? Has it happened? Is there an award for such an accomplishment? Are there any current members who have done this/are still serving? Is it a myth/legend?

Thanks for any input in advance!

Joe
PS> Sorry if this has been covered B4...


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## Michael Dorosh (15 Aug 2004)

General de Chastelain started his career as a private in the Calgary Highlanders Regimental Pipes and Drums.


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## Gunner (15 Aug 2004)

LGen Jeffrey, former CLS, joined as a soldier apprentice.


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## Figure11 (15 Aug 2004)

I think you'll find that the "record" is held by Sir William Robertson (1860-1933). Although not Canadian, Sir William joined the British army in 1877 as a trooper(private) in the 16th Lancers. By the first world war, he had become Chief of the Imperial General Staff and was subsequently promoted to Field Marshal in 1923. I believe that his is the only case of someone having risen in rank from the very bottom to the very top.


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## Figure11 (15 Aug 2004)

Oh yeah, I think Idi Amin achieved it also, but I don't think it counts if you promote yourself


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## JBP (15 Aug 2004)

Good! I am glad to hear that indeed.

So basically, it's not easy I imagine at all. I remember in cadets back in the day if someone got up to Warrant Officer of any kind they were heavy-duty hardcore cadets. Glad to see there are still people out there who have "been there, done that" and bought the T-shirt on the way out the door so to speak!

Thanks,
Joe

 :skull:


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## pbi (15 Aug 2004)

MGen Lew Mackenzie was another one-he started in the ranks as a Pte in the PPCLI (Or QOR-can't remember which...). BGen Ray Romses, who commands LFAA, started out as a Reserve Gunner in Lethbridge, AB. A number of Reserve BGens also started in the ranks as well. The problem facing the guy in the ranks is not that the system doesn't want him, but that he is usually entering the officer career stream a few years later than his peers, so he is behind the 8-ball in "Years Left To Serve" which can be a deciding factor since it is related to Potential. But, the fact remains, it can be done. Cheers.


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## pegged (15 Aug 2004)

During my SQ in July, we were on our field ex and digging some trenches. A Brigadier General was coming to visit our course, I don't know if it was to assess standards or what. He came up to myself, and another guy from my unit while we were filling sandbags and started talking to us. I remember him saying "When I was a private..." (I can't recall what he said, something about trenches). Both my friend and I were thinking "Holy sh-t, when HE was a private??".


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## Jungle (15 Aug 2004)

I believe MGen Bob Gaudreau enlisted as a Pte first (signal Corps ?). He went on to command 1er CDO in Cyprus in 1974, and became Regt'l Commander from 1985 to 1987. He later commanded CFE, before 4 CMBG was disbanded.


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## devil39 (15 Aug 2004)

Major General (Ret'd) R.I. Stewart CMM CD, current PPCLI Colonel of the Regiment.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/2ppcli/history/cor_e.htm


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## Fraser.g (16 Aug 2004)

BGen Silva started as a Sapper in 6 Field Eng Sqn, became the CSM, commissioned, became the CO, then moved on to Brigade commander and upward to a staff job in Ottawa. I lost track of his career after RV 92.


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## atticus (16 Aug 2004)

A Brig. Gen. came and talked to my BMQ course and he was talking to my section about different ranks and his experiances and he started as a private worked his way up to sgt. and got a commision to the officer ranks to either cpt or major (can't remember) and from their just kept goin. I also remember him saying he didn't want to become an officer, that he wanted to stay an NCO.


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## Big Bad John (16 Aug 2004)

What about A former Canadian CDS General Jacques Dextras?


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## Spr.Earl (16 Aug 2004)

RN PRN said:
			
		

> BGen Silva started as a Sapper in 6 Field Eng Sqn, became the CSM, commissioned, became the CO, then moved on to Brigade commander and upward to a staff job in Ottawa. I lost track of his career after RV 92.



 BGen T.H.M. Silva is now the Colonel Commandant of the Corp of Engineers of Canada


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## RCA (16 Aug 2004)

There are quite a few CFRs to generals out there, but very few who made it from Pte to General (only skipping Lt)


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## Rick Goebel (17 Aug 2004)

I went from Fusilier (Pte) up to Sgt then to 2Lt and up to LCol.  The Commander of Central Command (what would now be LFCA) when I became an officer was Brig MacIntosh (McIntosh?) who went from Pte to WO I (now CWO) and Lt to Brig (now BGen).  Another MacIntosh in my own unit was a troop with me, stayed an NCM, became an RSM, took a commission and became a CO before I did.


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## Gunnerlove (17 Aug 2004)

General Sir Arthur Currie. If you remember the first world war his name should stand out.


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## hhour48 (17 Aug 2004)

General Young, LFCA Deputy Comd started as a private in the 48th HIGHRS in the 19060's, went all the way to CWO, then got his commission as a Captain and worked his way up.


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## Gunnerlove (18 Aug 2004)

I forgot to mention that Sir Arthur Currie was Militia. So dare to dream boys, dare to dream.


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## c4th (18 Aug 2004)

Maybe the first time was by C.S. Gen Nathan Bedford Forrest.  He enlisted in the Confederate Cavalry as a private on 14 Jun 1861.  Promoted LGen 28 Feb 1865.

More remarkable and I suspect the only soldier to enlist as a Private and make Field Marshall is Field-Marshal Sir William Robertson GCB, GCMG,KCVO,DSO, Hon LLD,Hon DCL.  Enlisted in 1877 as a lancer and was promoted Field Marshall in 1920.


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## Art Johnson (18 Aug 2004)

General Howard Graham who was CDS during the 1950s was a Private in the 15th Bn CEF (48th Highlanders)

Aye Dileas


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## Jack Neilson (18 Aug 2004)

Don Banks,
Joined RC Sigs as a Sig Apprentice (equivalent to Pte) and retired as BGen


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## Spr.Earl (18 Aug 2004)

Rick Goebel said:
			
		

> I went from Fusilier (Pte) up to Sgt then to 2Lt and up to LCol.   The Commander of Central Command (what would now be LFCA) when I became an officer was Brig MacIntosh (McIntosh?) who went from Pte to WO I (now CWO) and Lt to Brig (now BGen).   Another MacIntosh in my own unit was a troop with me, stayed an NCM, became an RSM, took a commission and became a CO before I did.


I know 2 Gents right now who went from Sapper to Lt. Col,one is the D.C.O. of 39 Bd. right now.
The other is in charge of getting the new E.S.S. up and running in Chilliwack.
I first met them when they were Sgt and Cpl,rerespectively.


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## Bic519 (19 Aug 2004)

In the case of an individual who has worked his way up through the ranks from a private to a General, how typically does the commission come about? Does the soldier put in for it or do those further up the chain of command recognize his talents and award it?

Thank you


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## Spr.Earl (19 Aug 2004)

Bicque said:
			
		

> In the case of an individual who has worked his way up through the ranks from a private to a General, how typically does the commission come about? Does the soldier put in for it or do those further up the chain of command recognize his talents and award it?
> 
> Thank you


Dedication and hard work and a bit of God on your side.


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## JBP (20 Aug 2004)

It's very good to read that many people now, and in the past have went from beginning as NCM to high ranking officer. I'm the type of person that has to either do it all the way or not at all. I always want to excell as far as possible with my career... When.. I get my career that is! 

Although it's obviously not easy at all to go all the way up like that, I bet if you have combat experience it helps. Is that a requirement for any officer rank or just another thing that the higher ups would consider sort of a "blue" chit on your file? I know in certain parts of certain militaries around the world, it's looked upon STRONGLY for promotion if you've been in combat/active duty ops. 

Another thing, example> In the United States Air Force, to be considered to be a Stealth Pilot or SR-71 Blackbird pilot you have to be married. It's a requirement.Why you ask? Apparrently that shows that you have maturity and can handle stressfull situations etc... I found that out watching a special on Discovery channel few' years back. Is there any portion of our military that requires that?

Personally I don't think someone has to be married to prove thier maturity but it would be a good damn indicator...

Joe


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## WOmombo (20 Aug 2004)

Recruit Joe said:
			
		

> Okay, as I see it now days, you normally enter the CF as a Private, NCM, or Officer, usually through the ROTP.
> 
> I've heard stories back in the day of Privates making it through to Officer ranks! WW2 and the like...
> 
> ...


Yes, Gen Dextraze (not sure of the spelling of his last name), he joined as a Pte and finished his career as CDS in the 1970's.


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## TheNomad (14 Sep 2005)

Just a point to note about FM Sir William Robertson.  He is the only soldier known to have actually held every rank  from Trooper to Field Marshal.

So there is no one else to compare him against.


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## Old Sweat (14 Sep 2005)

In the Second World War the stated policy was that, according to a statement by the MND on 15 November 1940, "for the future every candidate for a commission in the Canadian Army must first pass through the ranks." In actual fact, of the 43,244 individuals granted commissions in the Canadian army in the Second World War, less than half - 20,723 - rose from the ranks.

Closer to home, I know several generals who rose from the ranks, including Lieutenant General Mike Jeffery, who was Chief of the Land Staff, while many others, including myself, had also served in the ranks before being selected for officer training. To the credit of our army and our nation, class and family circumstances has never been an absolute limitation on one's chances to become an officer.


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## mdh (14 Sep 2005)

Think the American General Stilwell started as a private and achieved high command in China during World War 2, cheers, mdh


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## Bill Smy (14 Sep 2005)

Actually Pte Joe, a former Private soldier of your own regiment rose to General rank.

Major General Sir Frederick Benson, KCB, was born in St Catharines. He joined the 19th Battalion of Infantry and served during the Fenian raids of 1866. After graduating from RMC, he joined the British Army and served in India, Egypt, and South Africa. He was knighted and retired as a MGen in 1910. On the outbreak of the First World War he was recalled to active service and appointed Director of Transport and Remounts. He undertook a North American tour to buy horses and by the summer of 1915 had shipped 250,000 to the UK. He died in Montreal in August 1915 and is buried in St Catharines. There were over 3,000 soldiers on parade at his funeral (the 19th Regiment, 44th Regiment and a number of CEF battalions undergoing training at Camp Niagara).


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## Bill Smy (14 Sep 2005)

I shouild have added that he was appointed Honorary Colonel of the 19th St. Catharines Regiment on 25 May 1905. The appointment of Honorary Colonels in the Militia was instituted in that year and General Benson's appointment was the first in the St. Catharines' branch of the Regimental lineage.


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## AmmoTech90 (14 Sep 2005)

Not a General, but their boss...Brooke Claxton was a Battery Sergeant Major in the First World War and was Minister of National Defence from 1946 to 1954.


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## dgrayca (14 Sep 2005)

WOmombo said:
			
		

> Yes, Gen Dextraze (not sure of the spelling of his last name), he joined as a Pte and finished his career as CDS in the 1970's.



In fact, as far as I know, Gen Dextraze was the only Canadian ever to rise from Private to Full General.

Joined the Fusiliers Mont-Royal in 1940, promoted to Cpl then Sgt and commissioned in 1942.  Was made CDS in 1972 and served as chief of staff of the United Nations Peacekeeping Force in the Congo.

He passed away in 1993.


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## Gunner (14 Sep 2005)

I think Gen Dechastelaine has already been mentioned.


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## Bill Smy (15 Sep 2005)

Private Joe:-

Here's another man of your regiment who began his military career as a Private soldier and attained General rank:--

Brigadier General Frederick W Hill, CB, CMG, DSO, VD was born in Welland, Ontario, in 1866 and first saw military service in K Company (or the University of Toronto Company) of the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada. He transferred to the 44th Regiment in 1885, and attended Niagara Camp as a bugler. He rose to command the regiment prior to the outbreak of the First World War. In civilian life he practiced law in Niagara Falls, Ontario. He commanded the 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion from its formation in Valcartier until January of 1916 (including the period of the German gas attacks at Ypres in April 1915) when he was promoted and given command of the 9th Infantry Brigade, CEF. He commanded the brigade until July 1918. He frequently commanded the 3rd Division in action. After relinquishing command of the brigade he then assumed command of Whitley Area in England. In 1920 he served as Assistant Adjutant and Quartermaster General of Military District No 3. He later moved to Fredericton, New Brunswick, and served as Honorary Colonel of the Carleton and York Regiment.


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## Munner (15 Sep 2005)

Major General Petras started as a Pte and worked his way up through the entire rank system.


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## GENOMS Soilder (15 Sep 2005)

My question is 'Can it be done now?'
I've heard that the only way into the officers ranks now is through a university degree/diploma
How much of a chance is it for privates who haven't gone to university or aren't planning to go to become a higher ranking officer?


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## SemperFidelis (15 Sep 2005)

GENOM Soldier said:
			
		

> My question is 'Can it be done now?'
> I've heard that the only way into the officers ranks now is through a university degree/diploma
> How much of a chance is it for privates who haven't gone to university or aren't planning to go to become a higher ranking officer?



Why dont you just go to university if youre so set on it?


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## Michael OLeary (15 Sep 2005)

GENOM Soldier said:
			
		

> My question is 'Can it be done now?'
> I've heard that the only way into the officers ranks now is through a university degree/diploma
> How much of a chance is it for privates who haven't gone to university or aren't planning to go to become a higher ranking officer?



The chances are slim enough (methematically tending to zero) that I would not recommend it as a career plan.


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