# Running Question



## SoldierInTheMaking (24 Feb 2009)

Well I just started running not to long ago, I started off maybe once a week and moved to 2-3 times a week I'm starting to feel and improvement so I was wondering, is bad to run everyday, I don't go for very long runs because I'm still building the distance but If I'm not sore the next day is it alright to go running again? I haven't done my first 5k yet but by the time basic comes I want to be able to do 5k like nothing.


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## - m i l l e y - (24 Feb 2009)

I think the "experts" say to take a day off between working out.  But if you change up muscle groups each day that is not needed.  If you do not change muscle groups (IE: running everyday) you potentially build endurance.  And keep in mind, you will be doing alot of running, marching, climbing stairs during your basic training.  So, if you get in the habit of giving it your all everyday now it'll be much easier when the time comes.

That's just my two cents.  If you're in the forces now though, and wondering about a training schedule the PSP staff are always there for you.


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## Galahad (24 Feb 2009)

I also read the most efficient way to train is to do both strength training and cardio training everyday, just do different muscle groups each day so that you don't strain anything.


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## - m i l l e y - (24 Feb 2009)

From my experience during BOTP, if you train hard before you go and you a very fit, you may become less fit while on course.  If you do not train at all prior then going on course you will become a lot more fit.  If you are about average before course, you probably remain the same.  All and all, it's way better to be prepared or even over prepared before course as it'll be one less thing to worry about while there.  (It's better to be sore at home when you can get well rested and recover, than on course where you will lack the rest and recovery time)


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## SoldierInTheMaking (24 Feb 2009)

No I am not in the forces...as I said I'd like to be in the best shape by the time I get to Basic......and I do switch muscle groups usually everyday I'm always doing push-ups and pull-ups or chin-ups and some sit-ups time to time sometimes I'll go to the gym and do some weight training as well so I'm always doing something different but I just want to get n the habit of running more because that is basically my only weakness. So I want to improve it the best I can.


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## - m i l l e y - (24 Feb 2009)

Sounds like you're on the right track.  Once you work you way up to about 5km you should be good.  I'd say that's about the average run you'd be partaking in.  Also, get used to doing it at 0500h, morning PT is an excellent opportunity for your staff to take you out for a run.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (24 Feb 2009)

so your saying I should start waking up at 0500h and go for a run.......I'll try and do that, I'll have to find me an alarm clock first lol but yea that should be pretty interesting.


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## Smirnoff123 (24 Feb 2009)

ive known people that run everyday...I don't think that it effected them in a bad way.


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## Galahad (24 Feb 2009)

You can definitely run everyday without any ill effects, as long as you don't run so hard you hurt your muscles, ie shin splits or anything like that.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (24 Feb 2009)

Alright thank you everyone for your post's I appreciate it I'll let you guys know when I do my 5k.


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## romeokilo (24 Feb 2009)

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> No I am not in the forces...as I said I'd like to be in the best shape by the time I get to Basic......and I do switch muscle groups usually everyday I'm always doing push-ups and pull-ups or chin-ups and some sit-ups time to time sometimes I'll go to the gym and do some weight training as well so I'm always doing something different but I just want to get n the habit of running more because that is basically my only weakness. So I want to improve it the best I can.



Your muscles are like a machine that rebuilds itself.

When you go to the gym, you break down the muscles. When you get home, and eat and rest (very important and often overlooked) the muscles you broke down rebuild themselves.

This is where there is a difference between humans and machines....those muscles will rebuild themselves as bigger and stronger than before (a fraction bigger but considerably stronger). This is the sore part of the story.

You should do different muscle groups each day because this shocks the system. If you do the same thing repetatively, the body gets "used" to it and almost starts to expect some sort of work out. When you do something different, the body must repair unexpected muscle groups and it does that better.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (3 Mar 2009)

I did my first 4km run today pretty happy with myself, I no it's not much but for me it's a decent jump from what I was running, wasn't tired after or nothing just a bit sore in the feet.....I can see a big improvement already. Wednesday I'll go for the 4.5k or maybe even the 5, we'll see. My goal is to be able to run at least 6.5 or 7km by the time I get to basic.


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## eilaw (3 Mar 2009)

I've been more or less following this schedule I saw off runnersworld.com.

Basically it builds you up to 5k in five weeks. Basically you run one day then rest or cross train the other day with Saturday as a rest day and a long run on Sundays. Each weeks the runs are longer and builds you up to 5k in the end.

What I've been doing is one long run a week, so far 4k, though I could do 5k if I pushed myself since it's only two and a half more laps. During the other days I do shorter 2.4k (6 laps) runs or 1.2k (3 laps) runs then another 1.2k sprinting down the straightaways and walking the curves. This interval training pushes the heart rate up and is a good cardio workout.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (3 Mar 2009)

That's sort of what I have been doing but I made my own routine up. I started with 2.1k did that a few times then started doing 2.5k runs a couple times then I did a 3k run a couple times and yesterday I did my first 4k. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and hopefully get up to around 7k by the time I leave for basic or maybe even 8k. I usually run every other day depends how my body is feeling it or not but sometimes I'll even go to the gym and hit up the treadmill I started running on the treadmill  a while ago I ran for 20 min the first time on level 6, the second time 25 min on level 6 and the last time I did it I ran for 45 min so I can really see a big improvement. Last year I could probably only run on the treadmill for 15 min and I was really tired....but then again I use to be a smoker so I can see why.


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## WaitOut (6 Mar 2009)

Make sure you include some hills in your route, that really builds the strength and endurance.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (6 Mar 2009)

There's no hills around where I live but there is an overpass so I'll start running on that, thanks!


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## George Wallace (6 Mar 2009)

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> There's no hills around where I live but there is an overpass so I'll start running on that, thanks!



 ;D

Maybe you are not running far enough.  Any valleys around?


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## SoldierInTheMaking (6 Mar 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ;D
> 
> Maybe you are not running far enough.  Any valleys around?



Well if I were to run to the nearest hill I would have to go about 10km and by the time I got there most likely wouldn't make it up the hill lol, I live in Sarnia.....there is nothing here.



[Edit to fix link]


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## George Wallace (6 Mar 2009)

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> Well if I were to run to the nearest hill I would have to go about 10km and by the time I got there most likely wouldn't make it up the hill lol, I live in Sarnia.....there is nothing here.



Seriously; that would be a good goal to set for yourself.  Perhaps you could cycle to a park nearby and then use some running trails.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (6 Mar 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Seriously; that would be a good goal to set for yourself.  Perhaps you could cycle to a park nearby and then use some running trails.



That would be a good goal, I'm always running on roads, because there's not much around where I live, so yea I might try it out and see how it goes.


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## George Wallace (6 Mar 2009)

Remember to work up to it gradually.  

Even cycling the hills would benefit you.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (6 Mar 2009)

Alright, thank you George!


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## SoldierInTheMaking (22 Mar 2009)

I'm going to see how fast I can run a 2.4km, I'll let you know what I get when I get back. The last time I timed it I did it in 11mins I think, this was a while ago though.


Dylan


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## SoldierInTheMaking (22 Mar 2009)

Well it wasn't as fast as I was hoping. I got 10:09 but it's a working progress this week I'll try and aim around 9:45.


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## psychedelics07 (23 Mar 2009)

10:00 is already in the "superior" bracket.   instead of sprinting the 2.4km,  why don't you try for distance,  for example, the 5km?


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## SoldierInTheMaking (23 Mar 2009)

rjr said:
			
		

> 10:00 is already in the "superior" bracket.   instead of sprinting the 2.4km,  why don't you try for distance,  for example, the 5km?



I have been working on my distance for the past month or two I use to only be able to run like 2 km I'm now running up to 5km.....I'm still working on it too, I just wanted to see what I could do it in.

Dylan


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## Good2Go (4 Apr 2009)

SoldierInTheMaking said:
			
		

> I did my first 4km run today pretty happy with myself, I no it's not much but for me it's a decent jump from what I was running, wasn't tired after or nothing just a bit sore in the feet [...]



Congrats on your progress.  If you have sore feet, you prolly need new runners.  You should be swapping them out about every 3 mos.  The Running Room is a great place to get runners.  When you go in, tell the staff about your mil aspirations and your running objs.  They will give you invaluable advice on the runners you should be buying.  RR *is* a bit more expensive than the bigger chains, but your runners are an investment!  RR also sells awesome socks (coolmax with extra cushioning).  Once you are in the mil, you will receive a 10% discount on all RR purchases.  

I used to get shinsplints and sore feet from running, and I don't anymore.  Shinsplints can be avoided by having your running style sorted out.  (Again the RR has trg seminars).  For the sore feet (tendon and stress fracture overspill in my case) I solved  by massaging foot cream (anything will do) into the bottoms of my feet paying particular attention to the arches.  I do this before going to sleep at night and the next AM I am G2G.

I don't recommend running every day.  3 days a week with a day off in between will ensure that you do not over trg.  You can do another form of cardio on your days off -- swimming would be an excellent trade off.

It sounds like you are running outside or on a track.  I like to do HIIT on the treadmill once a week so that I can get my speeds up.  I do 30 secs at 6mph then 30 secs at 7mph then 30 secs at 8mph, then 30 secs at 7mph, then 30 secs at 6mph.  Keep repeating the pyramid for 30 mins or so.  I got amazing results from this.  (The treadmill is also gentler on your joints!)  There are all sorts of interval trg progs on the internet -- just don't do one that is too aggressive or you can mess your legs up.


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## SoldierInTheMaking (5 Apr 2009)

Good2Go said:
			
		

> Congrats on your progress.  If you have sore feet, you prolly need new runners.  You should be swapping them out about every 3 mos.  The Running Room is a great place to get runners.  When you go in, tell the staff about your mil aspirations and your running objs.  They will give you invaluable advice on the runners you should be buying.  RR *is* a bit more expensive than the bigger chains, but your runners are an investment!  RR also sells awesome socks (coolmax with extra cushioning).  Once you are in the mil, you will receive a 10% discount on all RR purchases.
> 
> I used to get shinsplints and sore feet from running, and I don't anymore.  Shinsplints can be avoided by having your running style sorted out.  (Again the RR has trg seminars).  For the sore feet (tendon and stress fracture overspill in my case) I solved  by massaging foot cream (anything will do) into the bottoms of my feet paying particular attention to the arches.  I do this before going to sleep at night and the next AM I am G2G.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all that great advice. I did end up getting new shoes and they work great they have good arch support so my feet no longer hurt. I'm running about 3 or 4 times a week, depends how my body is feeling. 
I'm usually running out side just on the roads but there is a track near by that I would like to start running on, and as for treadmills I was running on them for the first little bit until I had no access to one anymore, but when I was I would have it at incline 2 at 6mph running for about 25-30 min. Other days I would go on the bike. I really have seen a big improvement since I started running thanks to advice like yours so I appreciate it. Thanks!

Dylan


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## FishOuttaWater (18 Aug 2009)

I don't exercise regularly anymore, but have always been somewhat "fit". I haven't gone running in years...

I just mapped out a 2.4km route from my house and tried running it... 14:03

I am a 1/2-pack/day smoker also... Should I be proud of myself..? I don't see many times posted except Johnson101.

Also, would an eleptical be of any help in regaining lost cardio/stamina due to smoking? Or is it not strenuous enough..?

 ???

* Oh, and I walked about 1/3 of the way...


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## owa (30 Aug 2009)

FishOuttaWater said:
			
		

> I don't exercise regularly anymore, but have always been somewhat "fit". I haven't gone running in years...
> 
> I just mapped out a 2.4km route from my house and tried running it... 14:03
> 
> ...



I wouldn't be proud; I'd be motivated to quit smoking and to get more active.

I'd rather the stairmaster over the Elliptical, but both are perfectly fine.


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## Park (11 Sep 2009)

FishOuttaWater said:
			
		

> I don't exercise regularly anymore, but have always been somewhat "fit". I haven't gone running in years...
> 
> I just mapped out a 2.4km route from my house and tried running it... 14:03
> 
> ...



If you are walking a third of the way, try completing the 2.4km without walking, even if it means going down to a trot.  Complete the 2.4 first (and hopefully more), then work on lowering the time.

Cardio has always been a weak point for me too.  I DON'T smoke and my first run was about 13min.  I carved it down to a consistent 11:20, but even then, that is pretty middling performance.  

Keep in mind that 12:30/2.4km (not sure of the exact time...) is the CF minimum. IMO you should strive for your personal best, and you'll probably thank yourself once you get into training.  I would guess a lot of people do not get Johnson's times, but thats no reason not to aim for them.   

Also keep in mind that you may be administered the step test, which doesn't care what time you can achieve, but your heart BPM afterwards (and your ability to recover).  Meaning longer distance, moderate exertion endurance activities (5+ km) might be better than short distance, high exertion ativities (2.4km).  When I went for my first physical, I was able to meet the standard, but after the step test by heart rate was at 192 BPM....

Ellipticals are great for aerobic activity while reducing the strain on joints.  I would recommend it for sure, but try to introduce running sooner or later.  Keep in mind that in actual training, you will be running and not using a machine.  It'd be good to get your tendons, joints, and muscles used to the relatively higher impact of running vis-a-vis using an elliptical.

Hope this helps


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## nocknee (19 Oct 2009)

FishOuttaWater said:
			
		

> I don't exercise regularly anymore, but have always been somewhat "fit". I haven't gone running in years...
> 
> I just mapped out a 2.4km route from my house and tried running it... 14:03
> 
> ...



Smoking may be cool, but it's nothing to be proud of  ;D

If your aim is to be a faster runner, I would say run more. That is unless you also plan/need to lose weight, in which case you could use the elliptical machine until you're ready to start running.


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## mathabos (21 Oct 2009)

I started my to run at the beginning of the summer when I decided to start my application.

By then end of the summer I was able to do 2.4km in under 13min which is quite an achievement since I had a decent amount of weight to lose. I would have pain in my calves when doing this type of run

After consulting some track runners, I decided to slow my pace down in order to build endurance. 
My 5km run takes me 33min which sucks I know but I keep a steady pace and easily get to 7km.
However, I have had to add some sprinting and interval running back into my program since my 2.4km run got slower as my endurance for 5+km runs increased. 
At least with these long runs my calves don't hurt.

im open to suggestions


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## nocknee (22 Oct 2009)

mathabos said:
			
		

> I started my to run at the beginning of the summer when I decided to start my application.
> 
> By then end of the summer I was able to do 2.4km in under 13min which is quite an achievement since I had a decent amount of weight to lose. I would have pain in my calves when doing this type of run
> 
> ...


Have you tried entering any races? Time trials are really not the same...when there are other people to race against it gives you that extra kick in the butt. Once you've done that, put your time into this online calculator http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm
to work out the correct training paces (easy/tempo/interval).

Instead of intervals you could also try running really fast up a hill for a minute to ninety seconds. Keep your head up,maintain a good posture, and keep your stride rate constant with shorter stride length rather than slower stride rate and same stride length. Repeat three times, building up to five. You might puke, but it'll make your legs strong and fast, and you're less likely to get injured (than with intervals).

Good luck.


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## mathabos (23 Oct 2009)

thx for the information. the site with the calculator is quite cool. 
I will also give some hill training a try.


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## armychick2009 (26 Oct 2009)

There is also a runner's pace calculator here. You can input your info three different ways!

http://www.nbwebexpress.com/runnersX/calculators.asp?whichCalc=pace


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## CDN_LoneWolf_CDN (26 Dec 2009)

I have heard that you cannot run too frequently (within your personal, reasonable limits), unlike with resistance training.  I like the idea of mixing it up with hills, and different surface types (try running in mud, through the bush, through shallow water, etc.).


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## infantryian (27 Dec 2009)

try running in sand if you can. Right now is hardly the best time of year for it, but in the summer, nothing burns your quads harder.


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## stabmasterarson (27 Dec 2009)

Hey guys, not to hijack, but I have a running question that I haven't found the answer for in a search, and I don't want to get in trouble for starting a new thread.

I looked at the fitness prep pdf for the passing times for the 2.4k run, and I was wondering if you had to run constantly for the whole time at a steady pace when qualifiying. The reason I ask is I did the run the other day and finished it in 10:52 which for my age (35) is considered superior. The thing is is I kind of ran a little too fast on the first 3 laps (1:30ish), so I was sucking wind a bit in my last 3 laps and walked probably a total of 100m out of the 2.4k on the last 3 laps.

I still got a good time though, so I was curious if that kind of thing happened in the actual test, if that would fly or not.

I am rehabbing an ACL reconstruction, so I am a bit out of shape. I used to be a competitive kickboxer and submission grappler/mma fighter so I was in great shape before I got my knee fixed. I could run 2 miles in 13 minutes or so. I'm hoping to get back to that level of cardio before (if) I get a chance to go to BMQ.


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## armychick2009 (29 Dec 2009)

stabmasterarson, 

I think you'll be fine. I'm not an expert (i'm joining, like you) but - from what I understand, the 2.4 is just a guide. WHen you go, you'll be needing to do the beep test, that's really what you should be focusing on timing wise so you don't get booted your first week. The longer distances will be great on those early morning PT sessions. But, the beep test is the test they use during the express test. 

No one sits there the first week and makes you run 2.4 kms as part of the test. Too many people to sit there and get their timings. So, they do it en masse with everyone with the beep test. 

You can find the beep test on wikipedia if you do a search for it. 

It seems you don't have anything to worry about but again? i'm not the expert here


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## MikeL (30 Dec 2009)

stabmasterarson said:
			
		

> I looked at the fitness prep pdf for the passing times for the 2.4k run, and I was wondering if you had to run constantly for the whole time at a steady pace when qualifiying. The reason I ask is I did the run the other day and finished it in 10:52 which for my age (35) is considered superior. The thing is is I kind of ran a little too fast on the first 3 laps (1:30ish), so I was sucking wind a bit in my last 3 laps and walked probably a total of 100m out of the 2.4k on the last 3 laps.



On all the PT tests I've done, they never cared what our time was for each lap, just the end time. If your total run time was a pass, thats all they cared about an not that you started out fast an slowed down. An like armychick said on BMQ you will do the beep test. But you can expect to run for morning PT. 


As for the shuttle run prep some people here have recommended downloading the beep test an training for that. I don't buy into that theory. What I do for PT is running varied distances aswell as intervals, Crossfit/BrassRingFitness/MilitaryAthlete, weights an ruck marches. I've never specifically trained for the beep test/shuttle run an I've always scored good on it.


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## stabmasterarson (30 Dec 2009)

Thanks for the info guys. I have the beep test but I can't run it yet because my surgeon told me I couldn't sprint then come to a dead stop just yet, it would be too hard on my hamstring graft. I think I can start doing that stuff in February. The way my application is proceeding I think it's highly unlikely I would be offered a job or get sent to BMQ before then anyway.


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## PrairieBoy (14 Jan 2010)

Hello all

I've been training in preparation for BMOQ for several weeks now, mostly strength work with some cardio exercises thrown in. A general workout for me has been, so far, 35 pushups, 40 situps, and 3-5 minutes of jumping jacks. It works up a good sweat for me, and it isn't easy yet, but by pushing myself, and giving myself short breathers between exercises, I can do it. Also, every couple of days I will go into my school's weightroom and get a good 15-30 minutes in on the bicycles. 

So I'm thinking it's time to start my least favourite exercise, but one of the most important ones for the Forces: Running. Yesterday, I tested myself on a 1.5 mile run on my treadmill, which I finished in 13 minutes, from a brisk walk and a bit of jogging to warm up, followed by several minutes of full running, and then a couple minutes of walking to cool down after I hit the 1.5 mile mark. I was dead tired afterwards, and spent maybe a minute laying on my couch, breathing heavily. I was just wondering if there's any specific 'trick' or something to running, or do you just keep doing it until it's easy, like most other exercises? Also, I have a few questions about gear: I've just been wearing my Air Cadet-issue PT t-shirt, shorts and shoes. The shoes are workable, but not that great, and I know nothing about running shoes, so any suggestions on what would be a good kind for treadmill training in preparation for BMOQ?

Any advice you guys have would be much appreciated!


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## owa (14 Jan 2010)

Running isn't very fun.  I hate it, but there are ways to make it better.

First, Google "Good Running Form".  It's essentially good posture, swinging your arms forward as opposed to side by side (across your chest), keeping your body relaxed while also making sure your arms are bent at the elbow.  You also want to land on your feet a certain way to avoid shock, and to help with the "bounce".

Second, I can't help you with shoes, but you will want them.  They help a lot.  Go to a sporting goods store like SportChek or Source For Sports and check out their running gear.  They should have running shoes.  Put a few pairs on and see how they fit.  You want them to fit snug, while not pushing on your feet in any uncomfortable manner.  The bottoms should provide some cushioning.  For a good pair, you could spend $70.00+ but it'll be worth it -- Especially once you go over for BMQ.

Third, running sucks.  Some love it, and others hate it.  The more you keep at it, the better you get at it and the longer you can go without hating it.  It's a necessary evil.  I completely feel your pain.


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## blacktriangle (14 Jan 2010)

I used to love running but I hate it now and my knees remind me of that daily. 

Shoes and form are very important. If you are serious, I would suggest that you seek the advice of the local running room or a store like it. My last runners were well over $150. Footwear is the only thing where I think the more expensive ones might actually be worth it. Take care of your feet, knees and back etc. Trust me. 

I like swimming better now, and I do about 2 hrs a week of it.


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## armychick2009 (14 Jan 2010)

Prairie Boy, I'll give you what little knowledge I know on the subject. 

When you go to the shoe place, you'll be greeted with a plethora of shoes... probably about 50 different kinds to choose from, maybe more.  Which to choose? So many!

I have about five pairs. One is a good running shoe... one is a trail running shoe... one is for cross-training, and one for the gym only. 

Each fit my feet differently. Each do a different job. For example, the running shoe has more of a roll to it, so you lean forward more and less impact on the knees. My trail running shoe has a bit more ankle support and less of a roll, flatter... to help with running over roots/trees, etc. with a better grip. My gross-training shoe is the one I (used to) use for triathlons. It had enough of a roll but a more harder surface which helped with pedaling. Gym shoes are designed to give better ankle support when you're playing indoor-type activities where you'd need that kind of support. 

Now, when I did this 3-week course this past summer, I brought my running shoe and my cross-trainer. When the Sgt. saw I had two pairs of shoes, he said "You only need one pair". I wasn't about to argue WHY I brought two pairs but it's definitely something I'm keeping in mind for when Basic Training comes my way... I'm going to bring the cross-trainer. I know there's a lot of indoor PT stuff that we'll be doing and a proper running shoe just ain't going to cut it... 

Maybe this is the part where I can ask one of the instructors (not meant to hijack the hijacked thread!) ... can we bring two different pairs of shoes to Basic? Or, just one? If it's just the one, definitely am brining the cross-trainers. If I can bring two, then I'll obviously bring the runner AND the cross-trainer. 

Whatever you do... make sure you try on as many as you can without driving yourself ape-shit. Runners should feel nice and light, breathable (helps get rid of sweat plus on raining days, you don't get the squish-squish feeling in there as badly resulting in less blistering!)... and, buy yourself a good pair of proper running socks. Seriously, they make all the difference.


This all being said? 

I hate running, with a passion. A necessary evil but... I hate it. The triathlons sucked because I really only liked the swim portion and biking... 

Good luck with it!


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## owa (14 Jan 2010)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> I like swimming better now, and I do about 2 hrs a week of it.



Why didn't I think of that before!?

It's hard to categorize this workout, but it's got cardio, muscle strength, and endurance all combined into one...  B.J. Penn does it to build his cardio up.

You run underwater.  There's weighted brick things you can get, and you put them in your hands and they sink you to the bottom of a pool and you just start going full speed in one direction.  Once you want out, you drop the bricks and swim up.  You'll need to retrieve the bricks, but just get them one at a time and you're fine.  It's a fun thing to add to a workout.  Especially for those who love the pool and want to build some cardio.  Don't hold your breath too long and too often in one go though, it can be unhealthy.  As long as you don't put yourself into a situation where you're gasping for air when you come out of the water, you're okay.


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## blacktriangle (14 Jan 2010)

Wow that sounds pretty tough...whatever floats..errr sinks your boat I guess. 

The good thing about water skills is that they are in some ways directly transferrable to your career. You might encounter water and it is good to be confident in your abilities. 

I'm a pretty good swimmer now, so the next thing I want to learn to do is tread water with weight. With my luck however, I will end up "running" on the bottom in short order.


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## owa (14 Jan 2010)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> Wow that sounds pretty tough...whatever floats..errr sinks your boat I guess.
> 
> The good thing about water skills is that they are in some ways directly transferrable to your career. You might encounter water and it is good to be confident in your abilities.
> 
> I'm a pretty good swimmer now, so the next thing I want to learn to do is tread water with weight. With my luck however, I will end up "running" on the bottom in short order.



Haha, I've only done it a couple of times, but you're completely right.  It's fun to do with other people too.  You can compete to see who can go the farthest.  You'll feel it the next day though.  Muscles all over will be aching!

Treading water with weights, eh?  I haven't tried that.  Sounds horrible 

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread too much haha.


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## Ascendant (14 Jan 2010)

owa said:
			
		

> Don't hold your breath too long and too often in one go though, it can be unhealthy.  As long as you don't put yourself into a situation where you're gasping for air when you come out of the water, you're okay.



What's considered too long?

I thought you started killing brain cells after ~ten seconds?

I also thought the whole point of the running underwater exercise was to essentially go for as long as you possibly could, coming up for air only when completely necessary. Each training session, you strive to increase the time you are able to stay under.

Also, until recently, BJ Penn was notorious for his lack of training and coasting solely on his talent, so I don't know how much stock I'd put in his methods. 

Running with a big rock in the ocean looks pretty bad a**, though.


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## Kat Stevens (14 Jan 2010)

Get some 1 1/2" nylon web strap and hang a couple of plates front and rear, run back and forth across the pool about mid chest depth.  Does the same thing without the oxygen deprivation.  We did this in high school for rugby and football, builds endurance like a mofo.  Made rucking and mauling way more efficient.


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## ballz (14 Jan 2010)

You can also kill brain cells by shaking your head too vigorously? What your point?

In all seriousness though, you won't kill any brain cells solely by holding your breath. Your body's natural reaction would be to pass out and start breathing again, before it would let you kill yourself slowly by holding your breath.

That poses a problem if you are underwater when it happens of course, but that is beyond the point.


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## armychick2009 (14 Jan 2010)

There are a lot of websites out there offering swimming stuff. It's awesome cardio and it allows great room for improvement... you can work yourself as hard or as easy as you like. 

I just started treading water with bricks... I grabbed a 20 pounder and started to do it in 15 second increments. I kept almost going under and these old ladies were all, "Wow! That looks hard! How much does it weigh?" I told them only 20 pounds... then, I said... "I just lost 50 pounds. How on earth did I swim before????" Laughter all around. But, in all seriousness, try a 10 pounder first. The next day, my legs definitely felt the workout... it actually felt like I had done a ton of lunges... so, I got the muscle workout I needed without the extra strain of gravity. If you want to make it harder, you can try lifting the weight above your head or in front of you. 

However, don't try and be a super hero or try to look cool and hold the weight if you're struggling. Just let it go and try to retrieve it from the bottom if you can. I'd hate to see any of you drown out there!

BTW... try the smaller weights first and go up from there. I used to be a lifeguard so I knew I could handle the 20-lbs but I'd definitely recommend a lighter weight.

Other things to try... legs only (scissor, egg-beater) to travel your lengths. Really builds the thigh muscles. Also they have those pads which can go on your hand to make front crawl much more difficult. And finally, if you want to give your arms a great workout, find one of those floaty things that go between your ankles or thighs to keep your legs afloat and use your arms only for the lengths. 

Water workouts can be as easy or as difficult as you decide to make it!


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## owa (15 Jan 2010)

Kratos said:
			
		

> What's considered too long?
> 
> I thought you started killing brain cells after ~ten seconds?
> 
> ...



I'd put a lot of stock into what BJ Penn is doing.  In his last fight he dominated for all 5 rounds and looked as fresh at the end as he did going in.  Plus, it's not like he's the one coming up with the training plans.  He has world-class trainers to tell him what he should be doing.  Just like he has world-class trainers teaching him how to fight and hone his natural talent.

You can decide on what you want when underwater.  I use it to simply try and go farther then I did last time.  I naturally increase my length underwater, but I don't push myself to the point where I'm turning purple and really struggling to get air when I get out of the water.

But yeah, pushing a big boulder on the beach in neck deep water gives a pretty badass mental image haha.  Certainly a neat trick to show the lady friends, haha.

I like what "Kat Stevens" posted.  I might try that.  Although, being underwater is a lot of fun, haha.


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## Ascendant (15 Jan 2010)

ballz said:
			
		

> You can also kill brain cells by shaking your head too vigorously? What your point?
> 
> In all seriousness though, you won't kill any brain cells solely by holding your breath. Your body's natural reaction would be to pass out and start breathing again, before it would let you kill yourself slowly by holding your breath.
> 
> That poses a problem if you are underwater when it happens of course, but that is beyond the point.



My point was the guy said not to stay under too long because it's unhealthy when the point is to stay under as long as you possibly can.

Also, yes, yes you do kill brain cells by holding your breath. Lack of oxygen starts to take effect pretty quickly. Obviously not to any noticeable effect, because as you mentioned, your body won't let that happen, but it does kills brain cells.


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## owa (15 Jan 2010)

Kratos said:
			
		

> My point was the guy said not to stay under too long because it's unhealthy when the point is to stay under as long as you possibly can.
> 
> Also, yes, yes you do kill brain cells by holding your breath. Lack of oxygen starts to take effect pretty quickly. Obviously not to any noticeable effect, because as you mentioned, your body won't let that happen, but it does kills brain cells.



That isn't the point though.  The point is to push your body physically without hurting yourself.  As you get more comfortable in the water, you'll be able to stay under longer, but the real point is to push yourself for 30-60 seconds and then come up for air.  Maybe tread water and swim around, and then do it again a couple of minutes later.  You'd probably do it 5-8 times, but you won't force yourself to struggle for air.  It'd be great if one could do it while being able to take in air, but it isn't necessary because you'll still increase cardio and general muscle endurance when doing it in short bursts.  It's not the be all and and end all workout, but it's a great thing to do from time to time.

That's all I was saying.  I'm not sure how it got so confused.  I thought I was pretty clear.

Edit:  It is important to note that I do tend to stay under until I absolutely can't stay under anymore, but I know this is bad for me.  I accept that risk.  I just wasn't going to come on here and recommend everyone do it that way.

I still like what "Kat Stevens" said about keeping your head above water but still using weights so you can run effectively.  That'd be a neat thing to try.


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