# The Grip Strength Superthread- Read Here First



## vancouverjoe

I‘ve got a question about the grip strength test in the physical. It‘s something Ive never done before. How hard is it? The stuff I‘ve seen says 75kg. Is this for each and or is it a combined figure, like left + right = 75kg?  Thks


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## Sharpey

It‘s left and right hand combined when I did it two years ago. Sounds more difficult than it sounds, nothing to worry about.


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## humint

I just did it, and yes, it‘s not hard. It is the combined total of both hands, and you have two attempts on each hand to make 75. 

Let me put it into perspective. I‘m not a particularly strong guy. On the first attempt with my right hand, I got 63. With this result, all I needed was 12 with my left hand to pass the test. Needless to say, I passed.   :blotto:  

Don‘t sweat it. All you need to do is make sure that the hand grip fits your hand. You‘ll be able to play with it. Make sure that it‘s not too low or you won‘t get enough leverage. You‘ll know what I mean when you see it. And when it‘s done, you‘ll think, holy $hit, that was easy!   

Have fun!


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## combat_medic

Funny thing about the grip strength: A guy on one of my courses who wasn‘t particularly big (read: stong) got a really high score because he‘s a massage therapist. Another guy... big, weight-lifter type, just barely passed. I had no preparation when I got in, and passed it on the first try. Pretty simple stuff.


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## cpenney

It‘s nothing to worry about.  I‘ve had to do it three time, and the lowest I got was 93 kg.


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## ninty9

Could you explain what it is and how you do it?

I don‘t understand hat it is.

What I think of when I hear it is one of those palm squeeze things that looks like a pair of pliers.  Its hard to press it together.  Is that what it is?


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## Sharpey

That‘s exactly what it is. You stand straight, with your arm out to the side. Actually, I think you start from the bottom and move your arm up squeezing the grip tester.

I‘m 10 pounds soaking wet and I got somewere in the 90‘s, no worries.


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## MethylSilane

The thingy they use is a little gadget (it has a name, but I can‘t think of it now) that has a dial on it that indicates the force in Kg that you are sqeezing the handle mechanism.  The dial is built so that the highest force is indicated after you let go so that the tester can see your score when you hand it over.

The technique is simple.  Stand with your arm straight out from your body so that your hand is level with your shoulder.  The palm side of your hand faces forward.  Start gripping, and as you do, bring your arm down to your side, while turning your palm in to face your body.  Do not touch your hand to your body in any way when you reach the end of the motion.

That simple.


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## vancouverjoe

Wow, I didn‘t expect so many replies this fast. It sounds like a breeze. Thanks everybody, I really appreciate it.


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## kurokaze

I didn‘t know that you were allowed to adjust that thing.  For our test, it was set to the lowest
setting (i.e. closest together) and everyone did
the test that way.  

Wasn‘t mentioned to us that we could adjust it.
This was in Toronto.


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## Pride in Service

I am going for my fitness test next Monday and have a question about a post I saw earlier. The individual was saying the 75 you have to get to pass is a combined amount...does this the combined result of both hands gripping ?

I thought that it was 75 per single hand.

-Nick


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## klumanth

The 75 is for both hands together.  You get two tries per hand and they take the best of each and add them together


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## McInnes

lol, when i was talking to my recruiting officer, he was really bitter about it, the word pathetic came up alot. He got more than the minimum, just in the one hand.


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## A Mom

Would you tell me what precisely the grip test is?  Is it squeezing one of those hand exercise things with springs?  Or something else?
Thanks.


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## robreadman

Yes it‘s Squeezing a spring with a gauge on it that indicates how much pressure is being applied in kilograms. you get two tries to sqeeze as hard as you can on both hands and the combined pressure must equal 75 kilograms or greater. It‘s a simple test most people have enough grip strength to do. The military just has to make sure you can carry a water jug or your gear when you need too.


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## PARAMEDIC

hey all, just wanted to know if anyone know where I can buy the grip test thing they used at the cfrc...and yes i asked the cfrc but all they kept telling me is go to a fitness store and buy a squeeze thing ...I have 2 of those plus a couple of stress balls...none of which have a gauge on it to let me know if im improving or not...i had tried all fitness store some rock climbing stores and all retail...like walmart zellers..etc... If anyone has come across any stores in the GTA or surrounding area pls let me know so i can go pick up 1..
thx in advance

"mr.martin thx for the choppers, now how about some urban or desrt camo"


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## Sundborg

Why arn't the squeeze balls good enough?  Just keep working on your grip and working out your forearm muscels; don't stress yourself over this.  If you really want to find out what your grip strength is, then just go to a Fitness depot or the YMCA or whatever have memberships and stuff to work out, they must have some there.


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## ab00013

You might need to buy one off the internet. Search for dynamometer and there is tons of links to companies selling them.

http://www.thehumansolution.com/dynamometers.html

http://www.rehaboutlet.com/1030.htm

http://www.promedproducts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PP&Category_Code=D

I think amazon.com might even have some merchants selling them.

Hope I helped.


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## PARAMEDIC

thx for the links...but damn those things are expensive... i guess its stress balls for me.. ;D and those sqeeze thingies


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## Sappo

just as a quick followup since this thread is dead now...

para'  i'd suggest not making threads ALL in caps... it tends to hurt the eyes and piss off the regulars.


just a kindly canadian suggestion


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## PARAMEDIC

will take it into affect...thx for the update


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## CrimsonSeil

AH MY GOD i failed the hand grip for fitness  :crybaby: Are there any exercises besides using a stress ball to increase strength in grip? ahhh this is so pissing. just hand grippp


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## Fusaki

Chin ups help.

Do sets of both overhand and underhand grip to workout your entire forearm. To focus on increasing grip strength, throw a towel over the chin up bar.


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## Navalsnpr

MEC carries a training item for Rock Climbers that may be useful:

*Rock Empire Forearm Trainer*







They run for $5.50 Cdn

Basically you place this item between the palm of your hand and your fingers and squeeze!! You can replicate the same motion that the Hand Grip Dynamometer tests.


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## spenco

You could also take a low weight dumbbell and start flexing your wrist.


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## CrimsonSeil

is it just your forearm that gives you the strength to grip hard?


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## spenco

For the most part, yes.

Here is a link for some exercises you can do for your forearms, which will increase your grip strength.

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ForeArmWt.html

Also, as ghostwalk said do chinups, those help a lot.


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## CrimsonSeil

man i am so pissed. my forearms like bigg and i failed  :crybaby: well thanks for the info


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## Hopkins

Never knew Hand Grip was such a biggy...Sorry to hear about it man and thanks for the heads up...Considering m getting myself ready.

Edit:  Hah scuse me for being a nooby...What do they require you to do for hand grip?


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## CrimsonSeil

they make you squeeze a thing called "dynosomething." Anyways it looks like a "D" haha bad description. Yea it sucks. All my friends who dont even work out have a stronger grip  :crybaby:


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## Inch

Maybe it's just technique. I'm not a body builder by any stretch of the imagination, but I have a stronger grip than most people. You need a total of 75 to pass, when I was 21, I could get 72 with my right hand and 68 with my left, much to the dismay of the 2 ex-Airborne guys that were on my BOTC. I think those guys almost hurt themselves trying to beat me.

The dynamometer can be adjusted to fit your hand. Adjust it so that your fingers are about an inch or so from your thumb/palm when you're holding it or whatever is comfortable. Just make sure it's not too big, it shouldn't feel like you're holding onto a pop can, more like holding a hockey stick. Then place the "trigger" part on the middle section of your fingers in between the two knuckles, know what I mean? Then just squeeze like a mofo.


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## CrimsonSeil

Just another question. Is there something wrong with my hand because my grip is so weak and I workout my forearm. I feel like the bones in my hand have to do with something.


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## Goober

Go rock climbing if you can. I rock climb regularly (few times a month), am a skinny guy, but got 106kg on the hand grip. Even after only 1 week of rock climbing you'll notice a difference.


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## spenco

Well youll have to wait six months for a new physical unless you want to pay the $32 for a new one.

Answer to your other question, have you ever had any problems with the bones in your hands?  This probably isnt the case, you just need to start working on the muscles that will help improve your gripstrength.  When I did my physical in May I got 43 on my right and 40 on my left, (pretty damn crappy), but when my physical expired i did a new one on the 5th and I got 57 on my right and 54 on my left after working on my forearm and grip strength.  You will see improvement if you work on it.


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## FITSUMO

go to fitness depot or some store like that, get the thermodyne balls( @12.50 ) each, and start squeezing, you will be really amazed on how fast the grip improves.  Not a word of a lie, but last friday, I did a 71 Right 68 left, and after a week I did the "dyno" and now have 73 Right and 70 left............might be because I was more rested, but I really think after a week of ......squeezing the balls...(lol, sounds wrong, but you get the idea).......Another idea is go and get those hand grip things at CND TIRE and squeeze them together so you can hang on to a loonie without it falling,  start at 10 secs and work your way up, got that idea from a rock climber friend( he can do it for 60 mins).

cheers


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## jmackenzie_15

tie a weight to a rope and a stick or something (not really a stick, something solid that you can hold , like a bar) and roll the weight up and down with the bar... it works out your forearms  pretty well =p


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## Kal

It sounds like there is more of an underlying issue.....  You're probably going to have to wait a few month before you can take the test again right?  (nod your head)  In the meantime, get yourself a gym member, or if your school has a good weight room, use that.  If you don't and just pass the test next time, it may be a sign of these to come.  Train hard now, so that when you go to do your basic, you can rock and roll through it, instead of gasping for air after a good run, having you leg muscles just about to give up during a short ruck march, or having your upper body screaming after a PT session.  Wouldn't you want to cruise through the physical stuff instead of just barely getting buy and relying on buddy a little too much?  Just don't overtrain, don't do the same body part more than twice a week and cardio 3-5 days a week is good.  You may not see results right away, but give it a couple weeks, you will and others will notice...


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## Trev

Fill two litre pop bottles with sand, or water, and hold them infront of you. Keep your forearms straight and your arms pointed down. Do not let your arms bend a little bit, keep them straight.

Another good one that you can do anywhere is this, do it as you read this.

hold your hand in front of you
 squeeze it into a fist
now shoot out your fingers so your hand is open
now fist
open
fist
open


do that as fast as you can as hard as you can for as long as you can. After about five minutes you will find it difficult to get your hand open,


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## OatmealSavage

Seil said:
			
		

> Just another question. Is there something wrong with my hand because my grip is so weak and I workout my forearm. I feel like the bones in my hand have to do with something.



You do forearm curls right? You need to get your thumb involved. I bootlegged this off the internet. I think I just googled grip strength.

"Power Rack Grabs:   Take the pin of your power rack, and set it to just below your hip.   Now, get a heavy duty bucket, and make the handle nice and thick, but make sure it still rotates.   Place the heel of your palm on the pin, and dangle the bucket from your fingers with some plates in it.   You will be able to develop some demented hand strength with this exercise. 

Hangs:   Grab a chin up bar....and hang. : ) 

Pinch grips:   Take two plates, put them together so the smooth side is out, now grab it so your thumb is on one side, and your four fingers are on the other.   When you get up to two 25's, your getting strong.   When you get up to two 45's (long way off for most of us), you'll have vices instead of hands. 

Lever lifts:   Take an object like an axe, and hold it either in front of you, or sticking behind you.   Now, lever it up and down.   The further a way the weight is from your hand, the harder the lift will be.   For the front lever lift, just try a baseball bat at first.   For the rear lift, try an axe holding it halfway.   When you get used to the movement, go heavier.   Your wrists are in a little bit of a delicate position with lever lifts, be careful. 

Plate Curls:   This is one I never heard of until I read _Mastery of Hand Strength_, by John Brookfield.   Take some Olympic plates, grab them with a pinch grip (one in each hand), and curl them, it's that simple, in explanation at least.   Wait till you try this exercise, you'll be shocked at how hard this it is. 

plate curls explained: According to grip expert John Brookfield this is the absolute best exercise for the wrists. What you do is pinch grip one plate and just curl it up*remember to keep your wrists tight, dont let them sag back* If you can curl a 25lb plate in this fashion you have pretty strong wrists"

All I do is I have been wrapping tape around my dumbell handles until they are about three inches in dia. Then just lift weights as per normal and your grip is trained incidentally. The farmers walk is good too, take a couple of big plates, or four and pinch them together, and walk around for half a minute. Maybe the reason I can almost do 70lbs with each hand is because I used to be a farmer. 

Those Canadian Tire grippers might help you although they are a bit easy, if not, Ironmind has grippers that are unreasonably stiff.


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## jazscam

Hey,  

On the last course I was on, three of us failed the PT test becuase of the grip test.  We were all under 5'6" and the worst score in each event was 9.5 on the run, 45 push up and 50 sit ups, the remainder of the scores were equal or higher than those (all respectable).  I can do the least chin ups with 7.  We all failed.  Two of us climb and none of us are slackers in the gym.  In the end, we were all given passes (because the equipment was assumed to be broken), but most of use think that the machine was set to large for our collectively small hands, giving false readings.  Their was a post more earlier in the thread that mentioned how to adjust the grip test it sound very accurate.

On a side note, how many people feel the grip test is an accurate way of testing fitness, or could a better exercise replace the grip test?  Or who would just like to see chin ups come back?

J


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## Navalsnpr

jazscam said:
			
		

> but most of use think that the machine was set to large for our collectively small hands, giving false readings.



The Hand Grip Dynamometer is adjustable and every express test I've completed, I've been given the opportunity to adjust the grip size to fit my own hands.


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## bossi

jazscam said:
			
		

> On a side note, how many people feel the grip test is an accurate way of testing fitness, or could a better exercise replace the grip test?   Or who would just like to see chin ups come back?



The grip strength measurement is intended to measure "the tip of the iceberg".
And, yes - it's entirely possible the device wasn't adjusted properly - mistakes happen.
Similarly, there are "issues" with pushup and chinups - similar to the debate on Olympic medals (i.e. as soon as "technique" or anything "judged" is involved ... it's not a score - it's an opinion ...).

The best advice has already been given:
1.  Don't just work on improving your score on the grip strength test - work on your upper body strength, and particularly your arms and ESPECIALLY your forearms.
2.  If it was good enough for Gordie Howe, then it's good enough for you (i.e. hockey is "War on Ice"!)



> tie a weight to a rope and a stick or something (not really a stick, something solid that you can hold , like a bar) and roll the weight up and down with the bar... it works out your forearms  pretty well


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## Kat Stevens

The grip test is ludicrous as a gauge of fitness.  An old EME guy I knew couldn't run from his bay to the crapper without a smoke break in between, but he could squeeze the head off an anaconda...

CHIMO,  Kat


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## bossi

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> The grip test is ludicrous as a gauge of fitness ...



Ooops - thanks for the reminder!
The grip strength test is only a "litmus test" for a _particular_ subset/aspect of *muscular strength * ... (i.e. to be viewed in concert with the remainder of the Expres test ...)


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## FITSUMO

On a side note, how many people feel the grip test is an accurate way of testing fitness, or could a better exercise replace the grip test?  Or who would just like to see chin ups come back?

by itself the grip test is nothing, but it is a measurable test.  In most cases( not Jazscam's) it would indicate a person that is doing some form of resistance training.  At civvie job we have a dyno and I asked a rather lazy s*(& if he try it, he failed really bad, this guy has to take the elevator to go one floor and cannot do 1 push-up, so in this case the test is accurate.  If Jazcam is a climber, I would say for sure that the dyno was set up incorrect.

As for chin's coming back, all you smaller guys love them, being bigger and struggling with them, I do em because I have to,  but I am glad they not in the test.   I think a better test would be a deadlift.  The reason:  It covers grip, leg and lower back strength............and being a bigger guy and doing 600lbs for sets I love em( but I am not biased at all).........

cheers


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## Hopkins

Yea I took all my tests today and failed the PT only cause I couldn't meet the limit of hand grip...Pissed off...

Personally...though it doesn't really matter, they should find some other way to test that part of muscular strenth...Or many m just pissed cause I failed it 

Takin test in about another month...So we'll see...


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## civvy3840

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this but I was wondering if there was a way to improve my chances of doing well on the grip test.


thanks


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## George Wallace

It seems, from other comments on other threads, that the best thing to do is right from the start, make sure you adjust the device for your hand.

GW


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## civvy3840

ok I will adjust it to my hand. 


thanks


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## civvy3840

hey guys I just thought of something. I don't even know the minimum requirements for the grip test the reason I thought of this is because we are doing grip tests in gym and I thought it would be a good opertunity to see if I will have problems on the test.


thanks


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## 277to081

AFAIK, there is no set minimum for the grip test, rather, they tally the total on your grip test (best for each hand out of two tries each) + total push ups (use proper form) + total sit ups, that total has to equal at least 175 or something, sorry cant remember the exact number. HTH!

Edit: come to think of it, that 175 number may be to achieve exempt status, it might be that grip must be at  least 75 but the higher you get the less push ups/sit ups you have to do in order to be exempt. The minimum for push ups and sit ups for males is 19 each.


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## WATCHDOG-81

"there is no set minimum for the grip test, rather, they tally the total on your grip test (best for each hand out of two tries each) + total push ups (use proper form) + total sit ups, that total has to equal at least 175 or something, sorry cant remember the exact number. HTH!"


According to PSP guidelines, there is a minimum for the grip test.  75 for males under 35, 73 for males 35 and over,  50 for females under 35, and 48 for females 35 and over.


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## Inch

WATCHDOG-81 said:
			
		

> "there is no set minimum for the grip test, rather, they tally the total on your grip test (best for each hand out of two tries each) + total push ups (use proper form) + total sit ups, that total has to equal at least 175 or something, sorry cant remember the exact number. HTH!"
> 
> 
> According to PSP guidelines, there is a minimum for the grip test.   75 for males under 35, 73 for males 35 and over,   50 for females under 35, and 48 for females 35 and over.



Correct, however that's a total between your two hands. I used to wrestle in high school so I've always had really good grip, I got 70 on my RH and 67 on my LH on my last test. It has it's advantages, I only have to do 20 pushups and 20 situps to get exempt, now if only I could get 10.5 on the shuttle run  :'(


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## civvy3840

thanks guys I did the grip thing in gym today and it was harder than I thought. I only got 57 on my right and 33 on my left but thankfully that is enough to pass! but do any of you have a site or suggestions on who to improve your grip? I've started doing work outs involving forearm strength and whenever I watch tv I squeeze a stress ball until I can't anymore, but apparently I still need to work at it. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

thanks


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## putz

civvy3840 said:
			
		

> thanks guys I did the grip thing in gym today and it was harder than I thought. I only got 57 on my right and 33 on my left but thankfully that is enough to pass! but do any of you have a site or suggestions on who to improve your grip? I've started doing work outs involving forearm strength and whenever I watch tv I squeeze a stress ball until I can't anymore, but apparently I still need to work at it. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> thanks



Push ups, chin ups, and dips worked the best for me, and I increased big time on my grip test ( I had to re-test cause my old one expired)


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## TheCheez

Grip test is almost entirely how you postiion the device.  This is the easiest test but for free exempt points it pays to get a high score.

Unfortunatlely the setup that feels comfortable for me is the least effective


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## civvy3840

How do you get pionts on the PT test is it like for every 1kg on the grip test you get 1 piont and for every push-up/sit-up youget 1 piont?


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## TheCheez

Thats right 1 point per situp or pushup or kg of grip and to get excempt you need to get above x amount of points depending on your age.


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## civvy3840

Ok this may sound stupid but what are you geting exempt from? So I'd need to be able to do 43 push-ups and 42 sit-ups in a minute. Bettter start working lol


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## Inch

Pushups aren't timed, they only have to be continuous. It may be different for the entry fitness test, but that's how it is for the CF Expres test.

If you achieve exempt status on your Expres you don't have to do it the next year. Normally you do an Expres test every year, if you get exempt everytime you do it, you only do it every 2 years.


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## P-Free

It was suggested to me that to improve my grip I should squeeze a tennis ball in 20 repetition sets a few times a day.


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## civvy3840

Ok thanks everybody for all the help. I will try the tennis ball. If anyone finds any more ways to improve your grip strength please post them.


Thanks again


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## Samsquanch

Grip test? Can't find any info... I'm guessing one would grip something as hard as possible and it is measured somehow? ???


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## tlg

Samsquanch said:
			
		

> Grip test? Can't find any info... I'm guessing one would grip something as hard as possible and it is measured somehow? ???



It's a handheld device that you squeeze to determine the strength in your hands. It used to be 75 lbs. I have no idea what it is now. The title is slightly confusing as there is no specifics on the grip test at all throughout the topic.


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## Bobby Rico

I wonder if it's any thing like the police PREP grip test?  You grip two handles- each requiring roughly twenty-pounds of force in order to become fully depressed- and then you pull the two handles together while continuing to fully depress them, which lifts a 70-odd pound weight.  I doubt it's the same, since the police one is designed to simulate the force necessary to restrain a person's arms in the handcuff position, but its the only grip test I know of.


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## Cardstonkid

The grip test of the CF is not the same as the police test. 

On the subject of eliminating the fitness test and the idea that it is lowering the bar.

What was the fitness test for soldiers joining CF in 1914-18, 1939-45 and the 1950's? If I am not mistaken I don't think there was one! Just pass the medical review, the intelligence test and in you go. The instructors made sure that the soldiers were ready to go when the time came for them to stand at the pointy end of the sword. Was the Army of WWI, WWII and Korea at a lower bar than today's? I have a hard time believing that. 

I am not worried, the Army is in good hands and the quality of this generation of soldier will live up to the standards of those who have gone on before, with or without a fitness test.


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## Alex

Cardstonkid said:
			
		

> The grip test of the CF is not the same as the police test.
> 
> On the subject of eliminating the fitness test and the idea that it is lowering the bar.
> 
> What was the fitness test for soldiers joining CF in 1914-18, 1939-45 and the 1950's? If I am not mistaken I don't think there was one! Just pass the medical review, the intelligence test and in you go. The instructors made sure that the soldiers were ready to go when the time came for them to stand at the pointy end of the sword. Was the Army of WWI, WWII and Korea at a lower bar than today's? I have a hard time believing that.
> 
> I am not worried, the Army is in good hands and the quality of this generation of soldier will live up to the standards of those who have gone on before, with or without a fitness test.



Interesting point.  Another advantage is that certain recruits could apply earlier and use the time between their application being processed and BMQ more productively to get into better shape.  That would be pretty good motivation for some recruits.  

On the other hand, I'm thinking a lot of people get to BMQ and get a rude awakening.  I'm thinking it would be better to fail a physical fitness test before BMQ than fail one at BMQ, but that's just my opinion.  Cheers


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## p_imbeault

Cardstonkid said:
			
		

> The grip test of the CF is not the same as the police test.
> 
> On the subject of eliminating the fitness test and the idea that it is lowering the bar.
> 
> What was the fitness test for soldiers joining CF in 1914-18, 1939-45 and the 1950's? If I am not mistaken I don't think there was one! Just pass the medical review, the intelligence test and in you go. The instructors made sure that the soldiers were ready to go when the time came for them to stand at the pointy end of the sword. Was the Army of WWI, WWII and Korea at a lower bar than today's? I have a hard time believing that.
> 
> I am not worried, the Army is in good hands and the quality of this generation of soldier will live up to the standards of those who have gone on before, with or without a fitness test.



Also take into account the problems we face today with obesity. Life has become alot easier to live then it was back then, people spend alot more time on their arses doing diddly (like reading this forum ). I think its important to have physical fitness screening if people want to join the CF, I mean come on the standards are not much as it is.


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## medicineman

Well, I had to do a little weight lifting test at the Recruiting centre, then we had to do the pushups, situps and 1.5 mile run when we got to Cornwallis.  If you pooched that, you did a couple hours of remedial PT every day from about 18-2000 IIRC - after you went through the remainder of the training day.  Now, you do the ExPres Test when you get there - if you pooch it, you go straight to remedial PT for 3 months to get you to the level you should be at to complete training - not just pass the test.  If you still pooch it, then well, we tried. At least that's what the sports med dude told us a couple of weeks ago at school here.  This way, they are less likely to become injured while doing the remedial on top of the recruit training and also don't have to leave with their tails between their legs and hopefully can go on to graduate and be productive soldiers.

MM


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## TCBF

How fit do you have to be to take an MG-42 and turn a landing craft full of hyper-fit soldiers into soup when they drop the ramp?  Not very.  The Wehrmacht had a very scientific view of military manpower: they slotted square pegs in square holes and round pegs in round holes. Frosbite regiments, Flat foot regiments, etc. Not everyone is going to be a "Commando" and so not everybody needs to be as fit as one either.

Every trade has a minimum medical category, we need merely to develop a series of physical categories for each trade, rank and posting position. Want a promotion?  Lose the sh_tlocker and meet the new PT level.  Want a cool posting like CDLS Rome?  Lose the sh_tlocker and meet the new liason standard.

Tie promotions to fitness.  The merit list should provide the order in which you COMPETE for promotions AND postings.  No one wants to be posted to CFB Upper-Armpit, Alberta?  Go down the merit list until someone says "Yes", then promote them when they arrive at the new base.  

Also - adjust the standards: an RMS Clerk - to use but one example - may not need to be super-fit in MOST cases.  But: you may want ALL RMS Clerks of a certain rank to meet a higher standard as part of setting the example and looking good in the uniform - so be it.  They don't meet that standard - they don't get promoted.

Tom


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## TankerBill

I have to comment on some of the post's in this thread to maybe dispel some of the MYTH's WRT the PT standard in recruit school.  Recruits at the end of 13 weeks MUST pass the entire CF Express Test.  The standards for this test are for a male under 35 yrs is 19 push ups, 19 sit ups, level 6 on the 20m shuttle run, and a combined hand grip of 75.  All Recruits are tested in week 1 of basic.  If they fail the run they are immediately sent to RFT Platoon, (Recruit Fitness Training) for up to 90 days.  If they are still unsuccessful then they are released.  If they pass the run but fail any other component of the test such as push ups they continue training and are re tested in weeks ten and if necessary week 13.  If still unsuccessful they go to RFT for up to 3 weeks where they receive another retest and if they pass they graduate if not they are released.  They end result is that whether they are screened before BMQ or during they ALL have to achieve the standard before they graduate.  As for staff having their hands tied, times they have changed.  Staff who are willing to put in the work and extra hours required have little difficulty sorting out problem recruits.  The end goal is to train as many recruits as possible however some people are just not cut out for military life and when identified the staff can weed those people out.  As for trade specific fitness standards, I disagree, everyone is responsible for their own protection and the TB doesn't care what colour uniform or what trade badge you wear.


----------



## GUNS

If the number of recruits that make it to unit level training is greater than the  recruitment level of the past, than the change in policy would be deemed successful.

In the past the attrition rate for Basic Training was low, reason being, these people were physically fit upon joining. Downside of that policy was fewer people were accepted.

Today's policy with the lower physical standards will have a greater influx of people with the hope that the majority of them will have the desire to remain.

I believe DND is expecting a higher drop-out rate than they have been accustom to but as I mentioned before if the number of those  that remain are greater than under the old policy, DND would content with that.


----------



## TangoTwoBravo

Great post Tankerbill and let me welcome you to the boards.  It is refreshing to get some clarity from people in the know.   It looks like a common-sense program.  I have a lot of faith in the instructors in our training system.

Cheers


----------



## geo

GUNS said:
			
		

> If the number of recruits that make it to unit level training is greater than the  recruitment level of the past, than the change in policy would be deemed successful.
> 
> In the past the attrition rate for Basic Training was low, reason being, these people were physically fit upon joining. Downside of that policy was fewer people were accepted.
> 
> Today's policy with the lower physical standards will have a greater influx of people with the hope that the majority of them will have the desire to remain.
> 
> I believe DND is expecting a higher drop-out rate than they have been accustom to but as I mentioned before if the number of those  that remain are greater than under the old policy, DND would content with that.


In the past, people who did not pass were sent home & told to get it together on their own time. Some people returned, some didn't.... 
If some people who were borderline are "coaxed" up beyond the pass line, we are ahead of the game - even if we end up paying the new recruits while they tone up and become fit


----------



## begbie

I couldn't agree more with this change in policy.  I expect it to increase the numbers of successful applicants entering the CF.  There's a lot of hoops to jump through to join and if the recruiting center sends someone away to work on their fitness, it's highly likely that they're never coming back.  Of all the requirments to join (good health, minimum apptitude scores, decent credit, etc), fitness is the one thing that can be fixed with some hardwork.

And to second what was said above, today's generation of recruits have lived an entirely different lifestyle.  Everyone thinks about their time spent in front of the TV or playing an XBox but how many schools still offer extra-curricular sports after school free of charge?  Last time I heard, lots of local schools required parents to pony up the cash if little Johnny wanted to play competitive high school basketball or soccer.


----------



## Spooks

klumanth said:
			
		

> The Instructors may have the skills but their hands are pretty much tied.  When they see someone who is not cut out for military life there is not a lot they can do about it unless the persons fitness level is below the minimum standard which, as we know are quite low.



Why are you blaming it solely on the Instructors? If you acknowledge that their "hands are pretty much tied" then what can be done. I believe it is up to their peers who perform selection. It is the future member's responsibility to cover his own *** should the 'numpty' make it through in order to cover his arc to protect said member. I am no condoning 'blanket parties' or the such, but even on the most politically correct of ways, 'natural selection' does occur.



			
				Always a Guard said:
			
		

> Some will become the pride of Canada, but the vast majority will leave, just look at the numbers. Maybe saying sub-standard is incorrect, but we are not recruiting the people who really want the military as a Lifestyle. Life in the CF is hard and demanding, and it takes an iron-will to persevere through the bad times for the end rewards. The recruits we want are those that are not there for money and not there for an easy-ride (career only). We want those that dare to be challenged. Those members, that impose on themselves a higher standard than the rest of society. We are not getting that anymore, instead we are recruiting people looking for; a temp. career, a means to pay for their education (which is not wrong), or a flopper(in for the initial engagement and then out). I believe that lowering standards initially makes the end result weaker. I don‘t mean to berate anyone, but look at the new course packages that have come-out each year to replace the old ones, they are not getting more refined, more indepth or more challenging. No, they are getting easier, more basic and more corporate. I just feel that by straying from the military ethos we are straying from attracting and retaining soldiers who want the challenge, and who want to live the lifestyle. Look at the infantry, all soldiers who take a perverse pleasure in overcoming their own suffering..it‘s the challenge that draws them in and it will be continuos challenges throughout their careers that keep them in!



On this note I will say what I feel and it will most likely get me verbally boot stomped on here.
Physical fitness is not the be-all-end-all to recruiting. If you would take time to look into this topic, you will find that entrance exam requirements may have dropped but they still have to pass the fitness test at the end of BMQ. If they don't, you get held back and do not graduate. Physical fitness is not the sole criteria for a 'good solider'. It does not prove determination in the slightest degree. It does point out who is a 'keener' and that's it. Let's go back into my history.
I went into BMQ with a grasp of patriotism but not necessarily what I was getting in to. I hadn't pre-excercised at all, and as a result, the BMQ 5km runs were insanely hard and I even failed my first fitness test at week 3 (?) due to pushups (yes, I couldn't even do the minimum simple requirement). However, I worked hard and graduated with my class at prolly the low end of the fitness level but high end for the cognitive thinking level. Now I went on to -Infantry- training where I sat roughly at the middle of the bar. There were guys who could eaily run 10km, others could do "150" pushups, and other aspired to join the Navy SEALs.
Now I sit here, after my first basic engagement and I look around. Out of the 35 that graduated with me from infantry school, maybe 6 remain. The guy who could do "150" pushups ended up being a malingerer and sat in the canteen for the last year-and-a-half of his contract (with only 6 monthes in a rifle company). The Navy SEAL dude who was far more fit than me turned out to be using steroides and was afraid of heights (rapelling was interesting with him) and for lack of better words, gave up all will to succeed a year left in his BE. Other "fit" guys who were motivated to do 21 pull ups for fun, got messed up from jumping, found the cushiness of a medical chit and floated with various "ailments" for 2 years.
I, however, went to Afghanistan, was injured, -and- I signed for my second BE. Even with my hurt body, I can still stomp the Cooper's Test and even outdo what I could accomplish before I went overseas.

What I am saying is that physical fitness does not necessarily mean you are a better soldier. It does not mean that you have more motivation to strive for more. Determination, perserverance, and loyalty to the CF body is largely brought in before you sign the dotted line. What kind of soldier you will be is perhaps even instilled from values you learn from birth.


----------



## Samsquanch

> What I am saying is that physical fitness does not necessarily mean you are a better soldier. It does not mean that you have more motivation to strive for more. Determination, persevering, and loyalty to the CF body is largely brought in before you sign the dotted line. What kind of soldier you will be is perhaps even instilled from values you learn from birth



Couldn't have said it better myself... However, the application process is long enough that there is plenty of time to get in shape. There is no excuse for laziness the minimum requirement in training is just that a minimum . I've been training harder than ever and I know there isn't a PT test until BMQ, I haven't even done the interview. Being in shape proves determination and perseverance... Enough said.
Good luck to all determined, loyal and persevering recruits


----------



## mysteriousmind

This is quite interesting.

I know I have to upgrade my fitness level...but then again It wont make me a better member of the FC. It will make me a better person for myself...Ill be less a burden for my future colleague and for society. 

I truly hope that getting in the force will give me chance. 

Being in shape has multiple advantage on our mental, on our nerves, on our determination. Trust me I know what I'm talking about.

Yes the CF has lowered their standard...but...it is not the only thin who has chance over the years...I remember my dad being in the forces and talking about it and now I hear my best Friend talking about it...it has change. whether we like it or not.


----------



## geo

mysteriousmind said:
			
		

> This is quite interesting.
> I know I have to upgrade my fitness level...but then again It wont make me a better member of the FC.


A soldier that is fit IS a better soldier.... PERIOD


----------



## Samsquanch

In a bad situation I'd much rather be with a group of guys who had to pass a harder fitness screening. I'd feel more confident than having the out of shape guy watching my back. I'm sure the enemy in a combat situation will appreciate the lower admission standards. If I was getting into a fight, I'd want my bigger, meaner, faster  stronger friends keeping an eye open for the third man in rule. You hockey guys know what I'm saying...
 We have people at my place of employment that cannot physically handle the job. Once they are in it's hard to get them out.


----------



## Magravan

The individual standing beside you -has- passed the tests. I hate to say it, but by your logic, you do not want to serve with women, because they are not held to the same physical standard as the men on these initial tests. When they get rid of the fitness test at the end, then you will have grounds to be worried about the quality of the soldier beside you.

The new system is -very- simple. You are a piece of clay. You may be a pudgy, out of shape clay, you may have other factors that don't necessarily make you an ideal candidate, such as a superior attitude, or a tendency to put your foot in your mouth. In the end, you -ARE- going to be shaped into a soldier, or you're going to get recoursed. You aren't in shape? You will be made to fit the mold.

It just means that they'll consider shaping clay that they might not have considered before, and taking the extra effort to shape the more difficult recruits instead of throwing them aside with the mentally questionable and the morally bankrupt...

Anyone who joins for the Remedial Fitness Platoon without intention of getting into fighting shape is going to earn that money with blood and tears.


----------



## Samsquanch

Not serve with women who said that... Thank you for putting words in my mouth. I guess by reading my profile it entitles you to make assumptions about my opinions. "By your logic"??? What the...
 Some of the of the most fit and truly strong people I know are women (family with policewomen). I'm talking about showing respect for yourself & whatever you are doing. Maybe people should quit posting so much on Army.ca and go for a freaking run/workout and by BMQ the average person can be somewhat of a molded piece of clay as you put it. 
 I'm confident however the training is sure to be adequate and nobody will ever be sent into the field in less than 110% ready. In that aspect I am wrong. Maybe the post was a little hasty but at least it isn't pulling assumptions from out in left field.


----------



## Magravan

Samsquanch said:
			
		

> In a bad situation I'd much rather be with a group of guys *who had to pass a harder fitness screening*.



Based on your profile? No. I based my comment entirely on your comment, which makes more sense in my mind. If you'd like, I can also send you a link that describes the lesser degree of fitness required in the _initial_ fitness testing for both women and men of older age. You put your foot in your mouth, I just opted to point it out to you.


----------



## Samsquanch

You can go in circles about women if you want Mag. I say "guys" when referring to a group of people misleading? Possibly... I am not a scholar. Please don't put words in my mouth. Chalk one up for the grammar police. My point is still the same, quit reading between the lines. I would rather get in a fist fight with Chubby Checker after BMQ/SQ, than Mr.T or Mike Tyson. ;D
  Also the daily rate for a private is approx. 77$ a day multiply by length of remedial fitness add the money for food, shelter and instructor rates. That money might be better spent elsewhere? better vest or bullets, shells, those new tanks or whatever else??? Maybe they could have extra classroom sessions for people who didn't pass the cfat. Or drug rehabilitation for those who didn't piss clean the first time. Where does it stop? Our civilisation is in a downwards spiral in regards to P.T. They even have those scooter things that walk for you now. It's not the law of the jungle anymore in North America or many other places, but when the poop hits the fan it tends to revert that way 
  Anyways enough of the rant... Interesting thread for sure look forward to watching it's progress. I'm not trying to be rude but I feel pretty strongly about physical fitness in the military and civilian life. Good luck with your application Mag.


----------



## Magravan

Samsquanch said:
			
		

> You can go in circles about women if you want Mag. I say "guys" when referring to a group of people misleading? Possibly... I am not a scholar. Please don't put words in my mouth. Chalk one up for the grammar police. My point is still the same, quit reading between the lines. I would rather get in a fist fight with Chubby Checker after BMQ/SQ, than Mr.T or Mike Tyson. ;D
> Also the daily rate for a private is approx. 77$ a day multiply by length of remedial fitness add the money for food, shelter and instructor rates. That money might be better spent elsewhere? better vest or bullets, shells, those new tanks or whatever else??? Maybe they could have extra classroom sessions for people who didn't pass the cfat. Or drug rehabilitation for those who didn't piss clean the first time. Where does it stop? Our civilisation is in a downwards spiral in regards to P.T. They even have those scooter things that walk for you now. It's not the law of the jungle anymore in North America or many other places, but when the poop hits the fan it tends to revert that way
> Anyways enough of the rant... Interesting thread for sure look forward to watching it's progress. I'm not trying to be rude but I feel pretty strongly about physical fitness in the military and civilian life. Good luck with your application Mag.



We are in general agreement, I think. The individual standing beside you anywhere other than BMQ will have passed the testing. There is still a world of difference between the minimum pass rate and the ones who had the examiner pass out before s/he finished doing pushups. I respect that you value PT, but it is not the be-all and end-all of a soldier. You may not want to fight Mike Tyson, because he'd obviously kill both of us without having to work for it. On the flip side, you also don't want to take orders from Mike Tyson, for roughly the same reason...

PT is vital, being fit is a component to being a capable soldier. Being more fit does not make you a better soldier than a less fit if you lack in the other important areas. But since none of us should be aiming to be bottom of the barrel, it stands to reason that we should all be doing as well as we can in every area that is important to being a soldier.

(And to be perfectly honest, I think that this is somewhat preaching to the choir, because if you care enough to be looking up information like this, chances are that you are serious about your application to the CF.)


----------



## Spooks

Spooks said:
			
		

> Well said, Magraven.



I would modify my previous post and nix it, but I will make a counter-post to myself (really, I am not crazy).
Being in a rush, I neglected to notice that posts were made before my comment was posted. My 'Kudos to Magraven' was in reference to his previous post before hand which was award a '+1' by Geo. I do not wish for it to be perceived that I am getting in the middle of a GenderWar or FlameWar, but even by now I see that Magraven and Samsquanch have fizzled down (at least in -my- perpective).

In conclusion, I will apoogize for a wrongfully placed post. And now we return back to our regular programming about the CF initial assesment 'Grip test is just the tip of the Iceberg...'.


----------



## mudeater

Listen, as Canada's army increases in size and as we step up to the plate more in world conflicts, we need to increase the army's size. In a country the size of Canada, it's hard to get personnel as it is. Standards were lowered in WWII and Korea. So what if the guy is 15 pounds overweight, as long as he can shoot and die for his country, that's good enough for me.


----------



## geo

mudeater said:
			
		

> Listen, as Canada's army increases in size and as we step up to the plate more in world conflicts, we need to increase the army's size. In a country the size of Canada, it's hard to get personnel as it is. Standards were lowered in WWII and Korea. So what if the guy is 15 pounds overweight, as long as he can shoot and die for his country, that's good enough for me.


The fact that he enrolled with some 15 lbs of flab does not mean that he will be carrying said cargo by the time he has completed his Trade qualification and is given a permanent posting within the CF


----------



## Trinity

I had the pleasure of having the CFLRS Commanding Officer do a 
presentation on his school while at Nav Can.  When asked about this program (I'm assuming were
arguing about the lack of fitness standards and the 90 day get in shape program
at CFLRS) I was quite impressed by his answers.  

It incorporates fitness and military training.  Soldiers in this
program are still being trained military and can join in
basic training ongoing... so its not just a fat camp, but
they are still doing aspects of basic to help them fit into
a ongoing bmq.    I hope that made sense. 

This program has provided excellent results.  No failures
at the moment (that he was aware of.. and I'm sure he'd know).
The program is very successfull.  So.. as someone said, is there
money spent elsewhere that's better... NO.  Being able to recruit
more people, faster... = savings for the military.  Otherwise we'd
short of members and not able to complete missions or we'd have
people sitting in pat platoons awaiting training.. or people wasting
time in the system.

The reduction of waste overall is well worth their salary for the
time they spend in this program.


----------



## TCBF

When you think of the thousands of recruits who were injured during Recruit Trg and had delayed training or release as a result, you realize the true cost of short recruit courses.  Cut it from 16 to 12 to 10 to 8 weeks, watch the injury rate go up and the pension claims to skyrocket.

Indeed, let's apply some common sense here.  I'm all for the new program.

Tom


----------



## zipperhead_cop

FYI, if anyone cares the device is called a grip dynamometer and they all more or less look like this:







You squeeze as hard as you can, and two needles go up.  When you release, one goes back, and the other stays at the point where you had the maximum compression.  

As for the fitness debate in progress (from a three year dead thread, btw) you had better be more that just barely passing.  I want to know that if I take a hit beside you, you can pick up my 6'4", 235 lbs-without-kit arse and haul me off to an evac/med area.  Failing that, piss off to the REMF jobs and let the pointy stuff get done by the ones who can do it.   
My $0.02


----------



## aesop081

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> Failing that, piss off to the REMF jobs and let the pointy stuff get done by the ones who can do it.



Yeah...because we all know that all REMF jobs are less physicaly demanding than the pointy end right ?   :


----------



## zipperhead_cop

cdnaviator said:
			
		

> Yeah...because we all know that all REMF jobs are less physicaly demanding than the pointy end right ?   :



Not at all.  I am aware that there are lots of jobs that are not combat arms that are physically demanding.  But physically demanding is not the same as the demands on the field of combat.  To be sure, replacing a track on a Leo is an exhausting drag.  However, that is not the same sort of thing as carrying another human and all their kit several hundred meters to safety under fire.  I am quite confident that there are scores of support personnel that could easily do the work of the combat arms, but chose other trades.  But that does not diminish the need to have highly fit people at the front.  
However, in re-reading my previous post, I acknowledge the inherent dickish-ness of the tone and apologize to any who may have taken offence.  Perhaps it is time for bed...


----------



## new_man12

I am worried about my grip strength.  I am male, have small hands and small forearms.  I can do the pushup, sit-up, and cardio requirements with ease.  However, I'm worried about the grip strength.  There is no way for me to measure myself prior to military training.  I was told you could substitute chin ups for the grip strength, is this true?


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Not that I am aware of or have ever actually seen.  Its really not that hard.  Seriously.  

Chin ups do not measure the same thing the grip test does.

From DAOD 5023-2, Physical Fitness Program:

*Modification to MPFS Testing Protocol* If a CF member is unable on a permanent basis to perform the specific testing protocol set out in the CF EXPRES Operations Manual, CFPSA may authorize a minor modification to the protocol or an alternate testing protocol. 

I guess it would depend on if CFPSA would authorize it.  But I would also add, good luck getting that approved while at CFLRS.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Buy two of those stress ball dealies at the dollar store.  Every spare minute, squeeze the living crap out of them.  Grip strength will rapidly improve.


----------



## Zepish

honestly dont worry about it.  

We did 2 grip tests. one in week 0 and one in week 10. its very easy dont stress trust me. no one on our course failed the grip test. 
its simple. dont pull out your hair over the grip test.


----------



## Snafu-Bar

If you have access to a baseball bat, hold it in one hand straight out and using only wrist go from a straight up to straight out in front of you motion to build up your forearms and co-incidently your grip strength.

 Cheers.


----------



## Quartermaster

The grip test would not be substituted for chin-ups in this case because the Modification mentioned in the earlier post refers to an inability to perform the test, not an inability (or presumed inability) to pass the test.  In other words, some specific injury that would keep a person from doing the grip test, but does not preclude thier enrolment.

The bottom line with hand grip is to adjust the metre properly.  Chances are pretty good you are strong enough to pass, but the gauge does tend to slip if it isn't sized properly for your hand.  Ask the PSP staf for assistance with this.

Good luck.


----------



## slowmode

Another great way to increase your grip strengh is to increase your forarm strengh. 

What I do is simple and works amazing: Take a bar, put the appropriate weight on it, I add 20's on each side.

http://www.leehayward.com/exercises/forearms/wristcurl1.jpg

As you can see in that image hes holding the bar, all you have to do is curl the bar with your hands while keeping the arm in the same position

Hope this helps


----------



## PMedMoe

I'm female with thin arms and small hands and I got 64 this morning (requirement was for 48).  Don't forget, you do it twice with each hand and they take the best *combined* total.


----------



## Harley Sailor

I have a friend who fails the express test every year because of the grip test. He gets 85% of the over all requirement with his right hand.  He has a med problem and can only get 10% with his left.  He is hoping to get the full 100% with his right some day.


----------



## rdtul

Grip strength isn't too tough to pass, as long as you have two good hands/arms.  It's a combined total from both hands, and they take the higher of two tries each side.  There was only one person in my platoon who made passed the test with one hand, but nobody failed it.
The stress ball that was mentioned is a great start, and if that's too easy, use tennis balls.


----------



## Kebel

I did it last week and seriously, don't worry about it. I managed to do 26 pushups (which is not much) and i'm not very strong. I, however, get the passing grip mark with only one hand. You will need to get 75 with 2 hands but chances are you'll hit over 50 with only one hand... So you should easily pass it.


----------



## the_man06

don't stress, just think about how often use you use your hands. it's pretty hard not to fail.


----------



## nocknee

There seems to be a divergence of opinion on how easy the grip strength is to pass. Some say it's easy to pass, others that it's easy to train for, and others still that it's hard to get if you don't already have it. I'm 5'11" and 145 lbs on a good day, not exactly Arnold Schwarzenegger. My question is for those who have already passed it. What was your grip strength AND what can you deadlift, pinch grip and/or farmer's walk? I'm looking to gain confidence in this part of the test as I have no idea where to find this kind of dynamometer outside of CF recruiting centres. Other parts I believe will be a cakewalk for me, and I just did 13 chinups FWIW.
thanks,


----------



## gcclarke

nocknee said:
			
		

> There seems to be a divergence of opinion on how easy the grip strength is to pass. Some say it's easy to pass, others that it's easy to train for, and others still that it's hard to get if you don't already have it. I'm 5'11" and 145 lbs on a good day, not exactly Arnold Schwarzenegger. My question is for those who have already passed it. What was your grip strength AND what can you deadlift, pinch grip and/or farmer's walk? I'm looking to gain confidence in this part of the test as I have no idea where to find this kind of dynamometer outside of CF recruiting centres. Other parts I believe will be a cakewalk for me, and I just did 13 chinups FWIW.
> thanks,



I'd say that if your grip is strong enough to hold for 13 chinups, you are likely able to pass the grip portion of the EXPRES test with a fairly wide margin.


----------



## Flasbang

I wouldn't be concerned. I'm about your size and have below average size/strength in hands and I passed it no problem.


----------



## prima6

I don't think I've heard of anyone failing the grip strength test.  As to what you asked:

Deadlift: 365 lbs x 7 (last week, predicted 1rm around 440 lbs) 
Grip Strength : ~180 lbs (last October)


----------



## kratz

This current BMQ serials in Borden had some members fail the grip test. Normally it is nothing to wory about for most people. 

A quick search of MilNet using, "grip test", will offer many threads discussing the topic, even the calculation on how many pounds pressure per point to pass the test.


----------



## bdave

I can deadlift 2 plates a few times. I don't have a particularly strong grip. Farmer's walk is like 80 pounds for 30 seconds.
I weigh 145 and can do about 15 pull ups (not chinups).
I did 91 pushups and my grip was 50 for both hands (as in 50 each hand, total of 100).

My grip sucks.


----------



## Dean22

If you can hold yourself on a pull up bar for 60 seconds and your weight is over 75kg you can most likely pass the grip strength test.

The best way to prepare for the test is chin ups. Screw farmer's walks they barely do anything when I did them. Chin ups improve your grip vastly especially if you can't do them. I have absolutely horrible grip and I still managed to pass with around 50kg per hand. I screwed up on one of the pulls because I held it wrong. 

Oddly my left hand has more grip than my right even though for pushing and push ups my right hand is more favorable.


----------



## George Wallace

Dean22 said:
			
		

> If you can hold yourself on a pull up bar for 60 seconds and your weight is over 75kg you can most likely pass the grip strength test.
> 
> The best way to prepare for the test is chin ups. Screw farmer's walks they barely do anything when I did them. Chin ups improve your grip vastly especially if you can't do them. I have absolutely horrible grip and I still managed to pass with around 50kg per hand. I screwed up on one of the pulls because I held it wrong.
> 
> Oddly my left hand has more grip than my right even though for pushing and push ups my right hand is more favorable.



 ???

I'm not a physical fitness expert, but this sounds like BS to me.  I am sure that there are better ways to improve your grip, such as squeezing a tennis ball or a soft rubber ball, or any other of a number of tools found about a gym or physical fitness facility.  Hanging from a bar for 60 seconds just doesn't cut it in my eyes; nor do chin ups.


----------



## GAP

Dean22 said:
			
		

> If you can hold yourself on a pull up bar for 60 seconds and your weight is over 75kg you can most likely pass the grip strength test.
> 
> The best way to prepare for the test is chin ups. Screw farmer's walks they barely do anything when I did them. Chin ups improve your grip vastly especially if you can't do them. I have absolutely horrible grip and I still managed to pass with around 50kg per hand. I screwed up on one of the pulls because I held it wrong.
> 
> Oddly my left hand has more grip than my right even though for pushing and push ups my right hand is more favorable.



GW is right...one's got nothing to do with the other....grip strength is based on muscles working two ways, not stretched one way....


----------



## Dean22

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> I'm not a physical fitness expert, but this sounds like BS to me.  I am sure that there are better ways to improve your grip, such as squeezing a tennis ball or a soft rubber ball, or any other of a number of tools found about a gym or physical fitness facility.  Hanging from a bar for 60 seconds just doesn't cut it in my eyes; nor do chin ups.



Hanging from a bar isn't for improvement just to gauge your ability.

The chin ups part is just from my personal trainer who got his masters in kinesiology. I went from 0 chin ups in a month to 10 chin ups and my grip getting very strong and my balance on push ups and bench getting a lot better.

It would be pushing your muscles to the limit to make them grow as fast as possible.

First do sets of your comfortable chin up level, then do sets of reverse chin ups when you can't do the normal chin ups and when you can't do reverse chin ups start at the top of a chin up and hold with yourself dangling and then go down to 50% of the chin up and hold and when you get exhausted at that you lower yourself slowly.

Your arms are like jello but the amount of improvement you get for strength is awesome. I did this for push ups as well where you hold the push up at half way and it helped a lot.

I would recommend this to anyone over doing as many reps as you could as many times as you can since this exercise will built your lactic acid threshold much much higher than doing as many reps as you can as often as you can.


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## Dean22

GAP said:
			
		

> GW is right...one's got nothing to do with the other....grip strength is based on muscles working two ways, not stretched one way....



I didn't say grip strength improving by holding onto a bar. I said doing it as a gauge for what you can do since not many people hold the tools to measure their grip like the CF.


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## George Wallace

So?  Your posts have absolutely nothing to do with the title of this topic?


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## Dean22

George Wallace said:
			
		

> So?  Your posts have absolutely nothing to do with the title of this topic?



 ???

I thought it was the grip strength super thread where you either ask questions or post tips/advice.

Isn't this the thread for all the information you can get for grip strength?


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## George Wallace

Chin ups have nothing to do with this topic.  Hanging from a bar, may in your eyes be a good guage as to how good your grip is, but it really isn't, nor does it improve your grip.


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## Dean22

I was just providing tips on how to improve grip strength which, is what chin ups practically are best for.

That or you can work as a carpenter hitting nails all day. They'll crush your hands with their grip. But I doubt that's a sound way to improve grip.


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## kratz

Dean22, are you a certified fitness expert or just regurgitating what you heard from someone (your trainer?) or read somewhere? If you are going to defend an opinion that is being challenged by current CF members, I would suggest you provide links to where you are deriving your facts from. Doing so will go a long way to aiding your credability.


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## George Wallace

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> I'm not a physical fitness expert, but this sounds like BS to me.  I am sure that there are better ways to improve your grip, such as squeezing a tennis ball or a soft rubber ball, or any other of a number of tools found about a gym or physical fitness facility.  Hanging from a bar for 60 seconds just doesn't cut it in my eyes; nor do chin ups.



By tools in the above quote, I did not mean tools like 'hammers'; but 'tools' found in gyms to specifically exercise muscle groups.  They could be as simple as a soft rubber ball, elastics or springs that one would use to excercise thier hand muscles.  Hanging from a bar does little to exercise these muscle groups.  Chin ups for the most part concentrate on arm muscles; not so much the wrist and hand muscles used in a grip test.


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## Dean22

George Wallace said:
			
		

> By tools in the above quote, I did not mean tools like 'hammers'; but 'tools' found in gyms to specifically exercise muscle groups.  They could be as simple as a soft rubber ball, elastics or springs that one would use to excercise thier hand muscles.  Hanging from a bar does little to exercise these muscle groups.  Chin ups for the most part concentrate on arm muscles; not so much the wrist and hand muscles used in a grip test.



I have made three posts now saying why hanging from a bar is not an exercise but a gauge. When you hang form a chin up bar with your hands sideways or facing away from you, you are squeezing your hands around the bar(s). The stronger your grip is the longer you can hold on. Without grip, you can't hold on and will simply fall off. In a chin up you increase your grip by holding on and utilizing your arm muscles. Without grip you can't do chin ups and the hold chin ups are specifically designed to increase your grips. 

You saying chin ups has nothing to do with grip is laughable when I couldn't do any when I could bench a lot of weight but couldn't do chin ups.

I respect your opinion George but I trust a masters in kinesiology.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Dean22 said:
			
		

> I respect your opinion George but I trust a masters in kinesiology.



Don't,
I have YET [ in over 30 years of being a gym rat] to see anyone fail to do chin ups because of their grip.....


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## Dean22

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Don't,
> I have YET [ in over 30 years of being a gym rat] to see anyone fail to do chin ups because of their grip.....



Try doing the chin up exercise I suggested. You'll be impressed and amazed at yourself in a few months.


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## aesop081

Dean22 said:
			
		

> Try doing the chin up exercise I suggested. You'll be impressed and amazed at yourself in a few months.



I'm sure he has chinups and military fitness covered.

You on the other hand....not so much.


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## Dean22

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I'm sure he has chinups and military fitness covered.
> 
> You on the other hand....not so much.



Please, do not troll the forums especially in information threads.

Thank you.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Dean22 said:
			
		

> Please, do not troll the forums especially in information threads.
> 
> Thank you.



Alright Stooge, I've just reviewed your posts and I've had enough of you and the trail of BS/ ruined threads you leave behind.

Last warning, one more bit of kife from you and your gone.
Don't respond.
Bruce
Staff


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## blacktriangle

Dean22 said:
			
		

> Try doing the chin up exercise I suggested. You'll be impressed and amazed at yourself in a few months.



I've done THOUSANDS of chin ups and pull ups in my life; nevertheless, my grip scores do not reflect my abilities on a bar...


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## nocknee

Okay, thanks to the two(2) people who responded to my question. One more and I'll start drawing graphs and finding correlations > Everyone else: sorry for mentioning the chinups!

Redeem yourself Dean22, before they make you armwrestle an admin, what did you score on the dynamometer and what can you deadlift/platepinch?


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## PMedMoe

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I have YET [ in over 30 years of being a gym rat] to see anyone fail to do chin ups because of their grip.....



And on the opposite side of the fence, I've never failed a grip test, but I can't do a chin up to save my life.   ;D


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## Soldier1stTradesman2nd

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Don't,
> I have YET [ in over 30 years of being a gym rat] to see anyone fail to do chin ups because of their grip.....



Right, but most people fail to do enough chinup reps in a set to cause enough stimulus for growth because of the one weak link in the chain of muscles that are being utilized - for most that is the forearm/hands. In other words, the smaller and weaker "gripping" muscles usually fail well before the biceps, pecs, delts and lats. Thus, as you very well know, many use wrist straps or wrist hooks when doing chinups, pulldowns, rows or deadlifts - to ensure the targeted muscle groups get enough stimulus.
If someone can do enough reps to reach failure of the main musclegroups without using wrist straps, good on them - but likely very rare.
As for recommendations to increase grip strength - not rocket surgery - any exercise where the hand is opened and closed in reps. Suggestions: purpose-built grip strength device with small weights on bottom and handles for palm and fingers (much like the actual testing device)(I have seen one in NDHQ); wrist curls with a barbell allowing the bar to roll to the fingertips and back to closed grip; kettlebell wrist curls same as with barbell on bench or standing up with bell moving up and down opening and closing the hand (close approximation of the test, minus the 45 degree angle).
As the test looks for 2 RM (repetition maximum), one suggestion is to try to lift heavy and few reps (4-6 max).


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## Dean22

nocknee said:
			
		

> Okay, thanks to the two(2) people who responded to my question. One more and I'll start drawing graphs and finding correlations > Everyone else: sorry for mentioning the chinups!
> 
> Redeem yourself Dean22, before they make you armwrestle an admin, what did you score on the dynamometer and what can you deadlift/platepinch?



After talking to the person I know I recognized that chin ups cannot work for small/light people for grip very well unless you can go to failure.

What I posted were techniques to go to failure easily especially for those struggling with their fitness and who are heavier.

My grip sucked horribly before I started training so I can't tell you what it was before but I do know it improved a lot.

On the hand dynamometer I held it wrong (I had my thumb on the top instead of the thumb/forefinger arch) but I had scored 50kg per hand. For dead lifts the most I have ever done was 300 but I believe that can be mostly attributed to my leg power.


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## Smirnoff123

> don't stress, just think about how often use you use your hands. it's pretty hard not to fail.


I think you got that backwards


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## zipperhead_cop

Here ya go:

http://www.ultimategripstrength.com/gripequipment/equipment.php

There are also heaps of devices other than these.  One of the guys I work with has a hand held grip strengthener (looks like the old school stud makers that douche bags used to keep in their glove boxes of their IROC-Z's  ;D but made from stainless steel) that takes 250 lbs to touch the ends together.  It is bananas hard.  But if you were to rail away at it every day, your hands would get strong.


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## marlborough

My advice would be: GO CLIMB A ROCK!

This is by far the easiest, fastest and most fun way to build grip strength (along with uper body, balance and leg strength).


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## CDN_LoneWolf_CDN

Gotta agree with marlborough: 





			
				marlborough said:
			
		

> GO CLIMB A ROCK!
> 
> This is by far the easiest, fastest and most fun way to build grip strength (along with uper body, balance and leg strength).



... but don't forget the unparalleled core workout that comes with all sorts of rock climbing!  For hand grip; I cut up a couple sections of 2x2 and nailed them to the joists in my basement ceiling from which to do forearm chinups.  The beauty of this is that there is only 1.5" of grip space along the top, so it's all fingers- what better way to build hand grip and forearm strength?!


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## Ascendant

If you deadlift, use a double overhand grip for as long as you can (until it fails you) before switching to hook or mixed grips. Also, on your last rep, do a static hold at lockout. Static holding a few hundred pounds will do wonders for your grip strength.

You can also do farmer's walks with heavy dumbbells. Try to best your previous weight and/or distance every time.

Also, I haven't read through all the pages, but in the couple I did read, I didn't see the CoC (Captains of Crush) grippers mentioned anywhere.

They're basically the gold standard in grip strength and the training of it.

They ran thege from lowest, the CoC "Guide" (60 lbs), up to the CoC No. 4 (365 lbs).

They certify people for closing the higher ones and only five people have been certified on the No. 4 since 1998, one being a former World's Strongest man winner, Magnus Samuelsson. 

Anyway, just another couple suggestions to throw out there.


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## zipperhead_cop

Heh.  Around these parts, CoC has quite a different meaning.  However, the devices you are talking about frequently would have quite a bit more "grip" than what we are used to.


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## Ascendant

Yeah I saw that in another part of the forum after I posted. What's the military meaning?

I think the lower poundage CoCs could be beneficial, but I have no actual experience with them. I think they would carry over to the specific testing done, because they are essentially testing the same thing.

From what I do know of them, I'd just put the 2.5-4 in the just bragging rights, "look I did this" category.


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## zipperhead_cop

In the military, CoC stands for Chain of Command.  I think my buddy has one of the ones you are talking about at around 250 lbs.  A few weeks with that and you could crush coconuts!


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## Ascendant

Dean22 said:
			
		

> After talking to the person I know I recognized that chin ups cannot work for small/light people for grip very well unless you can go to failure.
> 
> What I posted were techniques to go to failure easily especially for those struggling with their fitness and who are heavier.
> 
> My grip sucked horribly before I started training so I can't tell you what it was before but I do know it improved a lot.
> 
> On the hand dynamometer I held it wrong (I had my thumb on the top instead of the thumb/forefinger arch) but I had scored 50kg per hand. For dead lifts the most I have ever done was 300 but I believe that can be mostly attributed to my leg power.



For chin ups, if your body weight isn't enough, you can add weight via a belt + chain to hang plates or put plates in a back pack.

I definitely find chin ups work my grip. 

Also, if you never use straps for DLs and do them every week, your grip will get good, fast. A lot of people think they're grips are failing, when really, they just need to chalk up and they'd be good for a few more pounds/reps.


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## Ascendant

zipperhead_cop said:
			
		

> In the military, CoC stands for Chain of Command.  I think my buddy has one of the ones you are talking about at around 250 lbs.  A few weeks with that and you could crush coconuts!



Ahh, thanks. So many acronyms on here.

And yeah, the CoCs are the gold standard for grip strength.

You can also pinch plates and stuff, as well.

There's really limitless possibilities when it comes to working your grip.


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