# The "Wanting To Join Another Military" Thread- Them To Us- Us To Them



## pjocsak

There was an interesting article in last week's The Economist  current affairs magazine. It highlighted the British Army's recruiting campaign in Commonwealth countries and the success that it's had in addressing the manpower shortage in the Army. I don't know all of the specifics about the program, but I gather that by enlisting in the British Forces you can gain citizenship. Assuming that you serve out the required terms of service of course. I know that the American military has a similar program in place. I was wondering what other forum members thought of this, and could it represent a possible solution to at least one of our current problems?

The article noted there has been little concern about the loyalty of the non-British soldiers. The British Army has a long tradition of actively recruiting within the Commonwealth. Note the close to 3500 Nepalese in the Gurkhas. The only problems are with regard to different socialisation. Fijian troops have a tendancy to beat their wives, and Jamaicans tend to resort to knives to solve problems far to frequently. This has lead to a few incarcerations. On the whole, though, most of the Commonwealth recruits have been well received in their new units after a short adjustment period. On top of that, many have chosen to make the army a career. With the pay and benefits, it represents a level of stability that new arrivals to a country might not enjoy otherwise.

In the case of Canada, I'm sure we would have little trouble finding young men and women from Commonwealth countries who would be willing to serve out 5 or 7 years in the CF in order to become citizens. There's tonnes of people lining up for a chance to come here. Why don't we take advantage of this possibly immense labour pool and offer them another avenue to gain citizenship. La Francophonie countries could also be used to recruit French speaking soldiers to keep the bilingual balance in the forces. I'm pretty sure that we would have lots of takers. I for one think it is an option that we should explore.

Patrick


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## QORvanweert

I think that is a great idea, and would most likely work. However, we do not have the training infrastructure to assimilate hordes of new recruit into the CF. never the less, I cast my vote in favour...


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## George Wallace

I read this with interest and then you had to bring up the 'Bilingualism' issue.  That may be the downfall of your whole idea.  We should not be recruiting Anglophone and Francophone foreigners from other nations to fill our shortfalls for the sole reason of the language they speak.  Bilingualism is a major stumbling block here.

I can see the historical significance and logic of allowing members of Commonwealth countries to have free access to joining the CF, but I do not see any historical precedence of allowing members of the Francophonie to join the CF.  They are not members of the Commonwealth and have no true ties to Canada historically.  As Chinese is now more prevalent in Canada than French, your logic would mean that we should allow people fluent in Chinese from other nations better access to joining the CF.

I think that it is a fairly good idea to open the gates to Commonwealth nations.  Bilingualism policies are in place, and these folk will have to follow them as do all anglophones in the CF if they want to advance.  Francophone recruiting will not follow the same precedence and more or less be restricted to persons who have already made the decision to emigrate to Canada as is the policy of today for all CF members, no matter what language they speak.  I am now talking about the various immigrants from Eastern Europe, Asia, Middle East, etc., who are now calling Canada home.

GW


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## pjocsak

George Wallace,
Your point on bilingualism is well taken. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective.


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## humint

The new policy is that only CDN Citizens can apply to the CF, and this applies to both the RegF and ResF. This came out post-Sept 11. 

The only loophole is if you are applying for a special trade (i.e. one that is having trouble recruiting new members due to level of qualifications), such as dentist or medical doctor. In this instance, you need to be a permanent resident.

See the CFRC for more info, or go to the CF recruiting website at www.dnd.ca


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## Marius

Hello,

I am new here. I am new in Canada too, I have been here 9 months. I am not Canadian citizen but I am landed immigrant. I know that the requirement is to be Canadian citizen, but on the recruiting website it says: "you may be eligible if you are landed immigrant". Does anybody know if I could be eligible ? I don't want to wait 3 years to get citizenship, I am already kind of  "old" (33). But I really want to join.

Thank You


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## SEB123

I think the exception is for officers, like dentist or a doctor , a job that they really need already qualified people.


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## Tracker

You might be considered for enrollment if you where a doctor and licensed to practice medicine in Canada, if you where an F18 Hornet pilot, that sort of thing.


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## oittoi

Hello.  I'm a foreigner who is planning to apply for permanent residenceship this year.  At the same time, I am now planning to go to Toronto to enroll in Graduate school.  After getting my permanent residenceship, I would love to sign up for reserve three years from now.  I am now 30 years old. 
I have read that it is harder for permanent residents to join Canadian reserve nowadays.  Would there be any way I be eligible to join at that point as a permanent resident? And would I be too old to join at age 33-34?


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## Britney Spears

> And would I be too old to join at age 33-34?


No, you'll probably do better than the 17yr old snotnoses who will be training beside you.



> I have read that it is harder for permanent residents to join Canadian reserve nowadays.



The recruiting process, even for citizens of foreign birth, is a jumble of arcane forms, security checks, and many people give up because it takes too long.  If you have your heart set on it, and your schedules are flexible (good for you),  start drawing pentagrams and sacrificing goats, because there seems no rhyme or reason to the proccess.


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## Roger

I am not sure but I think you also had to reside in Canada for at least 5 years


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## Eowyn

oittoi said:
			
		

> Would there be any way I be eligible to join at that point as a permanent resident? And would I be too old to join at age 33-34?



No, you can't enroll in the Reserves as a permanent resident.   You must be a Canadian citizen.   You would not be too old at 33-34.   I have seen 40 year olds, enroll.

This has been discussed in this topic.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/23328.0.html


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## RyanNS

I thought ??? I may have read somthing on here before (although I can't find it now by searching) that it was possible for Canadian military members to transfer to foreign militaries (Other Commonwealth countries, Australia, U.K.). Was I just dreaming this or is this possible? Sorry if this was covered before and I missed it.


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## ReadyAyeReady

RyanNS,  Check out this thread...it was started by Pieman and it tells of his experience in applying for the Brits.  It might be of some help...I'm in the app process with them right now as well...still waiting to hear back from them...

http://army.ca/forums/threads/16844.0.html

Cheers.


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## RyanNS

Thanks. Alot of good info there, but I was wondering if it was possible to transfer after you had already been in the Canadian military. Not just apply to a foreign military as a straight up civilian.


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## 1feral1

Yes its possible, but its not a transfer, you must show proof of discharge, then when you sign up, its classsed as a re-enlistment. Its not as easy as it sounds, and I speak only for Australia, especially in the post 9-11 world. Try www.defencejobs.gov.au and have a look around. It took me almost a year, so plan way ahead. That was in March of 1994, and I have been here over 10 years (10 yrs, 8hrs and 31 minutes to be exact).

Five visits back to Canada in that time (1 in 1997 [holiday], 1 in 1999 [mother's illness], 2 in 2000 [mother's illness and funeral], and 1 in 2004 [holiday]), and as wierd as it sounds, Canada soon becomes a memory, and in many ways a stranger. Different news, different sports (no hockey, no CFL no lacross, no baseball. Its Cricket, AFL or Aussie Rules), and different cars. You really get to know who your real friends are too, and even after 10 yrs, I have friends here sure, but NOT like the friends back in dear ole Canada.

People move on, fewer and fewer letters, less contact, etc. However some things remain constant about Canada, such things as our flag, the smell of a winter's morning, the migrating sound of Canada Geese, Houston's Pizza [on Hill Ave, Regina], Robin's Donuts, those vast wheatfields of Saskatchewan, the fishing and hunting, and the skyline of your home town. I guess I am just being sentimental a bit today, as it was 10 yrs ago today I arrived at Kingsford-Smith, Sydney.

Depending on the season I come back to, I can hardly wait to see these familiar things. I just hate good-byes too, preferring to catch a cab from 'the house' not even looking back. I lick my wounds (brief spells of occasional homesickness once back in 'Terra Australis' - yes still) on my own time, and after a while I am fine. Although I am proud to be an Australian, I will never in a 1000 lifetimes forget where I come from.

So, its no big   'fantasy', its bitter reality, but one reaps what he sews, and for me things are great. Call it luck, perseverance, and plain bullheadedness. For me the good times out balances the bad.

I'll also say its not' romantic', or 'cool', as when you leave Canada to live in another country, it aint no holiday, or no picnic, and you are a long way from home. You must be prepared to leave for life, never to come back and live, at least for 5 years anyway. Once you are established here, some things get easier.

Taking up the responsibilites of becoming a second citizen, and putting Canada in the back seat is not easy, as from when you come here you start over (you have the chance to re-establish your life, like a second chance, sort of), and have to prove yourself time and time again.

Although I would not change anything if I had to do it again, the novelity wear's off pretty quick when you are faced with challenges both here and back home ( illnesses, deaths,etc - plus those good times too, Christmas's, birthdays and special family occasions, all missed. Been there and done it, and it aint easy). Otherwords its more than a 3 hr flight home. Here its 17 time zones, reversed seasons, different culture, different weather, different driving, different language and slang, different beer, different women, yes everything different, but its not all bad. A Canadian accent is always the flavour of the month here. Plus the fact of learning a whole new way of doing things Army wise.

Those wishing to accomplish to do what I have, I suggest you take a long hard look at the entire picture, as once committed, there is NO turning back.

One becomes stronger, more independant, more resiliant, in short better. Yes, and if there is any more growing up, its done pretty bloody fast.

Good luck in whatever you follow.


Cold beers,

Wes


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## RyanNS

Thanks for the info Wesley. This is just one of the many options I am weighing in my head now and it will be a few years before I make any major decisions like living in a foreign country permantley. I have lived in forrign countries before, but never for more than a year at a time. If its alright with you I may send you a PM some time with some questions? Thanks. Ryan


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## Pieman

> This is just one of the many options I am weighing in my head now and it will be a few years before I make any major decisions like living in a foreign country permanently.



Hi RyanNS,

For the UK Army, you have to keep in mind the age limit for NCM is 27 years 11 months. Do you have a millitary background already? If not, you will be too old by the time you do your time in the CF.

While in the CF, I believe it is possible to go on soldier exchanges with other armies. Something to look into.

Pieman


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## RyanNS

No military background yet unfortunatley. Hopefully thats not the same for the Aussie forces, as they are the only one I would really consider going too. If i join the Canadian forces it will be as on officer, I don't know if that makes a difference.


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## Major Pom

Hi Ryan, do you know anything about commonwealth troops (say UK for example) leaving their Army to transfer into the CF? I've got 20years Engineering under my belt and am considering moving to Canada, a change of uniform would make the move a little easier. Harvey


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## RyanNS

Major Pom said:
			
		

> Hi Ryan, do you know anything about commonwealth troops (say UK for example) leaving their Army to transfer into the CF? I've got 20years Engineering under my belt and am considering moving to Canada, a change of uniform would make the move a little easier. Harvey



To be honest I know nothing at all. I'm still a civilian and have never met anyone that transfered from one military to another. My knowledge of the subject is pretty much limited to this thread. Good luck,


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## Michael OLeary

Major Pom, there are ways to execute transfers. I have known of a few British officers who transferred to the CF over the past few decades, but I am not sure of the exact bureaucratic route. You may want to start by contacting one of our recruiting centres.

Try the Recruiting site query page:
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/contactus/sendmail_e.aspx


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## Canuck_25

I was told be a recruiter about 3 months ago that you could do a temporary transfer to the British Army for 1 year.


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## mo-litia

Sh*tty deal for you, bubs.

There is a notice on the Recruiting Office at my armoury stating something to the effect of: "Due to there being no shortage of Canadian citizens applying to join the Primary Reserve, landed immigrants / permanent residents are no longer be recruited at this time."   IMHO this is just politically correct speech for no recruiting due to increased   global security concerns.

I am unsure if this is an adhoc brigade policy or a CF wide one - there seems to be little rhyme or reason with recruiting these days . . .

I hope I am wrong about this - the CF certainly needs as many mature people you age as we can get right now.   If anyone has information to help, please post it!

 :-\ I didn't see the post directly above mine . . . where's that rye and coke?


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## oittoi

Thank you, thank you everyone for the comments.  I got an e-mail reply from 39CBG recruiter that said only the citizens can join at this point.  But then other regimental homepages still say permanent residents can join case by case.  And a recruiter told me to call him, so I called, and what he tells me changes everytime I contact him...Man, I don't have any idea whom to believe, and whether this so-called policy is temporary or permanent.  It seems no recruiter can tell me anything definite...  :crybaby:


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## Eowyn

I would go with what the 39 CBG recruiter says.   There is no way of knowing when the Regimental web pages   were last updated, or if the webmaster is the recruiter.


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## kincanucks

oittoi said:
			
		

> Thank you, thank you everyone for the comments.   I got an e-mail reply from 39CBG recruiter that said only the citizens can join at this point.   But then other regimental homepages still say permanent residents can join case by case.   And a recruiter told me to call him, so I called, and what he tells me changes everytime I contact him...Man, I don't have any idea whom to believe, and whether this so-called policy is temporary or permanent.   It seems no recruiter can tell me anything definite...  :crybaby:



You must be a Canadian Citizen.


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## binnysahota

I'm binny and i came to Canada an year and a half ago. I wanna join the reserves but i've been told that only canadian citizens are recruited! I checked out the reserves website, it said permanent residents could be hired! Please shed some light on this issue
binny


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## The_Falcon

Prior to September 11 you could join the reserves as a Permanent Resident, they have since decided only Canadian citizens can join the CF regs or reserve.  Which webiste are you referring to.  As far as I know there is no "reserve" website, however there are many sites run by reserve units and establishments, which may or may not be up to date.


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## ROTP Applicant

From http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/engraph/howtojoin/eligibility_e.aspx

Must be a Canadian citizen; 
Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country.


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## englishpiggy

My Husband is currently serving with the British Army and would ideally love to move to Canada but carry on with his career.
Does anyone know of the procedures for transferring and could provide us with any websites or information.
He is in the Infantry.


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## SHELLDRAKE!!

Has he considered the British permanent staff at CFB Suffield, Alberta? Or does he simply want to obtain permanent residence in Canada.


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## kincanucks

First of all, he must obtain permanent residency and then follow the following procedures for application.  This process is lengthy and there is no guarantee that he will be accepted:

*Information for Non-Canadian Citizens

Canadian Forces (CF) policy states that in order to be eligible for enrolment into the Forces, applicants must hold Canadian citizenship. The only exception made to this policy is as follows.

Applicants who: are not Canadian citizens, but do hold Permanent Resident Status; and possess specialized skills / qualifications the CF has need of and cannot fill with a Canadian citizen; and do not pose a risk to any national interest; may only be enrolled into the Canadian Forces if permission is granted by the Commander of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group (CFRG).

Application Procedure for Non-
Canadian Citizens

As you do not currently hold Canadian citizenship, you will have to be granted a Citizenship Waiver by the Commander of CFRG before starting any of the selection testing. In order to do this you must provide a curriculum vitae (CV) or resume to:

Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Headquarters
Attention: SSO Selection
Canadian Forces Base Borden
PO Box 1000, Station Main
Borden, Ontario L0M 1C0

The CV / resume should include:

Personal Information

Name (in full)
Date and place of birth
Brief outline of where you have lived (include dates)
Where your immediate family is currently residing (include parent, siblings, spouse and parents-in-law)
Reasons for your relocation to Canada
Date of arrival in Canada and date, you were granted Permanent Resident Status

Education
Name of all educational institutions attended
Grade / Level completed and year of completion
Diplomas / Degrees awarded
Areas of specialization
Marks / Grade Point Averages
Apprenticeship / Journeyman qualifications

Employment
List all part-time, summer or full-time employment positions you have held
Dates for each position
Brief description of duties for each position
Qualifications or training you received â Å“on-the-jobâ ?

Activities

List all volunteer positions you may have held
List all clubs / organizations / community groups you have belonged to
If there are any other points, or pertinent facts you would like to include, please feel free to do so.
Once you have submitted your CV / resume, it will be assessed by the Headquarters to determine what skills you possess that may be of benefit to the CF. Once this assessment has been completed you will be contacted directly and told whether or not a waiver of your citizenship has been granted. You will not undergo any of the selection testing until you have been granted this Citizenship Waiver.*


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## Ghostcreeper

Hi,  I am currently living in England and I am starting seriously think of emigrating to Canada.  As I don't have a degree or skill as such.  I was wondering if it was applicable for me to join the Canadian army to gain citizenship.  I have spent 4.5 Years in the British Army as a Challenger 2 Crewman and as such have considerable experience at driving tracked vehicles, gunning armoured vehicles, signalling,  and all the other things that go with military experience, E.G, NBC training, Exercises, Tours, and of course the never ending ironing of uniforms!.  I have completed a Six Month tour of Northern Ireland and Spent 3 months at the British Army Training Unit Suffield on Brigade Exercises.  Any pointers would be appreciated thanks!.


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## Chimo

I suggest you contact the Canadian Defence Liaison Staff at the Canadian Embassy in London> They will be able to help you out. Good Luck!


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## TheMachine

Basic Requirements:

be a Canadian citizen; 
Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country. 
be 17 years of age (with parental/quardian consent) or older; 
junior level Military College applicants must be 16 years of age; 
you may be enrolled in the Reserves providing you are 16 years of age; 
meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or occupation; 
this can vary from Grade 10 (Sec III in Quebec) for combat arms occupations to a university degree for the Direct Entry Officer entry plan. 

I do know that to become a canadian citizen, which I learned through college, you must have a certain amount of points such as:
family here, a skill, education, a job etc will all give you points. If i remember correctly, 50+ points is good enough.


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## GO!!!

I'm not sure of the nuts and bolts of applying to the CF, but I do know that there are considerable numbers of brits in the CF, most who were in Suffield/Wainwright, and realised the inherent superiority of Canada and her people to the English accross the pond. 

Ask at the Canadian Embassy or consulate in your area and find the one known as "kincanucks" on this website. He is a recruiter.

Good luck.


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## Ghostcreeper

Thanks for the info people, I am going to contact the Canadian Embassy in London anyway and ask for information about whether it is possible to join and see where it goes from there.  Will post any reply I get,  Thanks again!.

On another note if I do get accepted and can join is anyone here part of the Lord Strathcona's Horse Regiment.  As I believe this would be the equivalent regiment to my old one, The Kings Royal Hussars.  As it is a MBT regiment, would anyone be able to give me any insights into what it is like?.  Thanks


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## GDawg

Citizenship is a prerequisite for joining the CF. So joining the CF wouldn't probably work as a way to emigrate.
However, if you can demonstrate that your military skills are directly transferable to the CF, and that you will be able to fill a role that could not be easily filled by a Canadian citizen you may be able to join as a landed immigrant.

 I'm trying to help a British landed immigrant to join my unit, I could post any updates here if you like.


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## Mountaineer

Well if this any help.
I have got permanent residence for Canada and at the moment live in Australia (Aus Cit).
I just finshed my Degree in Data Communications and wanting to join the CF either as 

1. Officer in the Navy (Commercial Divers)
2. Officer in the AirForce (CELI)
3. Officer in the Army (Sig)

I applied 6 years ago to become a Canadian Res and for Australians ( i do not know for Brits) I needed 71 points to get the visa.

I have emailed the CF and found out that, I able to join the CF and wave the requirements for Citizenship if they deemed my skill set to be one that they need.
Also I have reserve training over here, so I am hoping that will also work for me...


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## IcEPiCk

I would hope we would be more welcoming to other commonwealth citizens...  I think it would be a great way for people to get their citizenships...  Ah well.


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## Spr.Earl

As of now you must be a Citizan even to join the Militia.


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## DannyUK

As a UK student with a degree and making application to come on over as a landed immigrant, can I join the Canadian Army as a commissioned Officer or do I need to be a Citizen to apply for a Commission? Also, as an alternative if I train at Sandhurst is it possible to then transfer to the Canadian Army? I am sure these questions have been asked before but I cannot find a definitive answer. Any help or guidance will be appreciated. Thank you in anticipation.


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## Michael OLeary

See the Canadian Forces Recruiting Site (http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/) for information on joining the Canadian Army. The major item that you will need to address is citizenship. You may also find useful information in these threads:

British man wondering if it is possible to join the Canadian Army - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33078.0.html

Transferring from the British Army. - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31653.0.html

Transfer from the British Army - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/27179.0.html

"ADVICE" Joining Canadian Army from British Army - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17202.0.html


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## 1feral1

Mate if you run into a bit of bad luck with the CF, you can always try www.defencejobs.gov.au 

Good luck!

Wes


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## lionelb

I am currently trying to do the same, at times it seems like I am banging my head on a door, however I will keep trying and let you know if I get any infor


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## AEStewart

Hello!

To cut to the chase, I've got a friend who lives in Australia who's interested in joining the CF Reserves (or even Regs)... so my question is, what should he expect in terms of, would he even be able to? Can non-Citizens join the CF Reserves? Do they have to meet certain criteria, etc?

Thanks!


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## Jaxson

Right off the canadian recruiting site.

To be eligible for consideration for the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following minimal conditions: 

be a Canadian citizen; 
Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country.  

be 17 years of age (with parental/quardian consent) or older; 

junior level Military College applicants must be 16 years of age; 

you may be enrolled in the Reserves providing you are 16 years of age; 

meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or occupation; 
this can vary from Grade 10 (Sec III in Quebec) for combat arms occupations to a university degree for the Direct Entry Officer entry plan.


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## HollywoodHitman

Unless you have the unique skill of PHYSICIAN......You must be a Canadian Citizen.


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## FormerHorseGuard

there use to be a lot of res soldiers in the toronto area who did not have citzen status but immigrant status, they  had to have a citizenship within 2 years or they were released. friends at my  former unit had rush out and get classes then become Canadian because they wanted to stay in the Unit, they  both now have done over seas tours.
so ask the locall recruiter


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## beach_bum

After Sep 11th that all changed.  You must be a Canadian citizen now for both the Reg F and the PRes.  This has been discussed on here MANY times.  A search will give you all of your answers.


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## beach_bum

You aren't a Canadian citizen?  Have you already gone through the process?  That's interesting, because I just phoned a friend of mine who works at the recruiting centre here and asked for clarification.  Things do change after all, and it's been a couple of years since I worked there.  According to her.....yes, you still must be a Canadian citizen to join.


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## HollywoodHitman

I am currently working as a recruiter and I am telling you for sure, that you MUST be a Canadian Citizen to join. There are always exceptions I am sure, however it is a recruiting requirent that you be Canadian in order to apply. SO......someone's not telling the truth.


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## Mountaineer

I am a permanent resident of Canada (Australian Citizen). I return to Canada next month and trotting off to the recruiting office
I sent an email to the recurting people and reviced a reply, saying that if I have the skill set that the Armed forces required. I could join.
I have a uni degree in computer science and hoping to join the airforce as a Cele officer

Now saying that I no longer have that email, to back what I am saying up.

And correct me if i am wrong but the forces.ca web site still say that landed immigrants can join the defence force but only certain areas.
IE, infantry but not Sig's or other sensitive areas

Be a Canadian citizen (if you have a permanent resident status, you may still be considered eligible for employment under certain conditions)


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## armouredgirl2006

I agree with you on that one.If  you are a landed immigrant and you have 5 years  and more in canada you can still join. BUt im changing my citizenship once im in. Yes i have gone through the process,all of my papers  are there.Im going for the rest of my tests in december.


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## kincanucks

_*Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country. * _ 

_*Information for Non-Canadian Citizens

Canadian Forces (CF) policy states that in order to be eligible for enrolment into the Forces, applicants must hold Canadian citizenship. The only exception made to this policy is as follows.

Applicants who: are not Canadian citizens, but do hold Permanent Resident Status; and possess specialized skills / qualifications the CF has need of and cannot fill with a Canadian citizen; and do not pose a risk to any national interest; may only be enrolled into the Canadian Forces if permission is granted by the Commander of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group (CFRG).

Application Procedure for Non-
Canadian Citizens

As you do not currently hold Canadian citizenship, you will have to be granted a Citizenship Waiver by the Commander of CFRG before starting any of the selection testing. In order to do this you must provide a curriculum vitae (CV) or resume to:

Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Headquarters
Attention: SSO Selection
Canadian Forces Base Borden
PO Box 1000, Station Main
Borden, Ontario L0M 1C0

The CV / resume should include:

Personal Information

Name (in full)
Date and place of birth
Brief outline of where you have lived (include dates)
Where your immediate family is currently residing (include parent, siblings, spouse and parents-in-law)
Reasons for your relocation to Canada
Date of arrival in Canada and date, you were granted Permanent Resident Status

Education
Name of all educational institutions attended
Grade / Level completed and year of completion
Diplomas / Degrees awarded
Areas of specialization
Marks / Grade Point Averages
Apprenticeship / Journeyman qualifications

Employment
List all part-time, summer or full-time employment positions you have held
Dates for each position
Brief description of duties for each position
Qualifications or training you received "on-the-job"

Activities

List all volunteer positions you may have held
List all clubs / organizations / community groups you have belonged to
If there are any other points, or pertinent facts you would like to include, please feel free to do so.
Once you have submitted your CV / resume, it will be assessed by the Headquarters to determine what skills you possess that may be of benefit to the CF. Once this assessment has been completed you will be contacted directly and told whether or not a waiver of your citizenship has been granted. You will not undergo any of the selection testing until you have been granted this Citizenship Waiver.*_

This is the only way a Landed Immigrant can get in the CF and even this is highly unlikely.  End of story.


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## beach_bum

armouredgirl680 said:
			
		

> I agree with you on that one.If   you are a landed immigrant and you have 5 years   and more in canada you can still join. BUt im changing my citizenship once im in. Yes i have gone through the process,all of my papers   are there.Im going for the rest of my tests in december.



If you haven't gone for testing, you haven't gone through the recruiting process.  You have just handed in paperwork.  Read Kincanucks post carefully.


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## Lost_Warrior

> I agree with you on that one.If  you are a landed immigrant and you have 5 years  and more in canada you can still join. BUt im changing my citizenship once im in. Yes i have gone through the process,all of my papers  are there.Im going for the rest of my tests in december.



The only thing that is going to happen to you when you go for your tests is, someone is going to call out your name, take you aside, then tell you they went through your paperwork and saw you were not a Canadian citizen and give you a bunch of forms to fill out and instructions on how to get your citizenship.

My girlfriend is from Trinidad.  She has been in Canada for 9 years now.  She had permanent resident status.  She is currently in a nursing program in college and wanted to join as a medic.  This is what happened with her.

Since then, she went, took the "test" and got her citizenship, and was allowed to continue the recruitment process.


----------



## Redeye

I'm pretty positive that it is absolutely impossible for a non-citizen to become a commissioned officer.



			
				Mountaineer said:
			
		

> I am a permanent resident of Canada (Australian Citizen). I return to Canada next month and trotting off to the recruiting office
> I sent an email to the recurting people and reviced a reply, saying that if I have the skill set that the Armed forces required. I could join.
> I have a uni degree in computer science and hoping to join the airforce as a Cele officer
> 
> Now saying that I no longer have that email, to back what I am saying up.
> 
> And correct me if i am wrong but the forces.ca web site still say that landed immigrants can join the defence force but only certain areas.
> IE, infantry but not Sig's or other sensitive areas
> 
> Be a Canadian citizen (if you have a permanent resident status, you may still be considered eligible for employment under certain conditions)


----------



## kincanucks

Redeye said:
			
		

> I'm pretty positive that it is absolutely impossible for a non-citizen to become a commissioned officer.



It is not absolutely impossible and is only remotely possible if you are a Landed Immigrant.


----------



## CougarKing

Hello to all,

I am a foreign citizen (won't say from which nation yet) who is about to be accepted with my family on a resident alien visa. 

Will I be able to join the Canadian Army Reserve? I e-mailed a naval reserve recruiter and he said no, one must be a citizen, but it says on the DND site that the Canadian forces takes foreign residents of Canada only in "special circumstances" where there is a shortage in the job/rating.

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/eligibility_e.aspx

If you don't mind my asking, do any of you have any experience with this? Or know of any foreign residents in the Canadian forces you have once served with?

I am willing to serve in the CF as an enlisted man/NCM immediately, but wouldn't mind waiting three more years for my citizenship if it comes to that- in which case, I'll try to get an officer's commission.

Thanks in advance to anyone.

Vive Le Armee De Terre! 
Vive La Marine!


----------



## kincanucks

You must be a Canadian citizen to join the CF.  If you think that you have special qualifications, training, and/or experience that can not be provided by a Canadian citizen you may submit your CV as indicated below.  However, the first hurdle would be obtaining Permanent Resident Status:

Information for Non-Canadian Citizens

Canadian Forces (CF) policy states that in order to be eligible for enrolment into the Forces, applicants must hold Canadian citizenship. The only exception made to this policy is as follows.

Applicants who: are not Canadian citizens, but do hold Permanent Resident Status; and possess specialized skills / qualifications the CF has need of and cannot fill with a Canadian citizen; and do not pose a risk to any national interest; may only be enrolled into the Canadian Forces if permission is granted by the Commander of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group (CFRG).

Application Procedure for Non-
Canadian Citizens

As you do not currently hold Canadian citizenship, you will have to be granted a Citizenship Waiver by the Commander of CFRG before starting any of the selection testing. In order to do this you must provide a curriculum vitae (CV) or resume to:

Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Headquarters
Attention: SSO Selection
Canadian Forces Base Borden
PO Box 1000, Station Main
Borden, Ontario L0M 1C0

The CV / resume should include:

Personal Information

Name (in full)
Date and place of birth
Brief outline of where you have lived (include dates)
Where your immediate family is currently residing (include parent, siblings, spouse and parents-in-law)
Reasons for your relocation to Canada
Date of arrival in Canada and date, you were granted Permanent Resident Status

Education
Name of all educational institutions attended
Grade / Level completed and year of completion
Diplomas / Degrees awarded
Areas of specialization
Marks / Grade Point Averages
Apprenticeship / Journeyman qualifications

Employment
List all part-time, summer or full-time employment positions you have held
Dates for each position
Brief description of duties for each position
Qualifications or training you received "on-the-job"

Activities

List all volunteer positions you may have held
List all clubs / organizations / community groups you have belonged to
If there are any other points, or pertinent facts you would like to include, please feel free to do so.
Once you have submitted your CV / resume, it will be assessed by the Headquarters to determine what skills you possess that may be of benefit to the CF. Once this assessment has been completed you will be contacted directly and told whether or not a waiver of your citizenship has been granted. You will not undergo any of the selection testing until you have been granted this Citizenship Waiver.


----------



## CougarKing

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Do you think the CF- namely the Navy- has a use for a proficient Mandarin Chinese Speaker?


----------



## kincanucks

If that is your only skill then probably no.


----------



## CougarKing

I have a political science degree from a US university, and   Mandarin and Spanish under my belt- you tell me that's not enough? Don't you need people more people with Mandarin in Intel, especially for the Navy with its port visits- they have been known to pass by China.


----------



## kincanucks

I am not telling you anything.  If you become a Permannet Resident than by all means fill your boots and send your CV to CFRG HQ and they will let you know if it is enough to waive the citizenship requirement to hire you over a Canadian citizen.


----------



## aesop081

CaptSantor said:
			
		

> I have a political science degree from a US university, and   Mandarin and Spanish under my belt- you tell me that's not enough?



You are not offering anything that the CF cannot find amongst canadian citizens.   I doubt there is an unfilled , urgent need for someone with a political science degre anyways.

Mandarin ?   I can throw a rock in vancouver, in any direction, and hit someone who speaks it

Spanish ? There's an awful lots of spanish-speaking people where i grew up.......not that hard to find.

You went to a *US* university ? well excuuuuuuuse me, ladida


----------



## CougarKing

Thanks for at least entertaining my question.

Here's a link to the last Canadian warship visit to mainland China.

http://english.people.com.cn/200408/18/eng20040818_153564.html


----------



## CougarKing

Aesop,

My brother has an airframe and powerplant's certificate (aviation mechanic) from a US technical school- will he have a better chance? (CAF or CAF reserve?)


----------



## hollrob2

hey just like to say hi to everyone on this forum 
hope you can answer my question for me because i cant find the answer anywhere 
well here it is        i am 17 years old and live in the uk i am a british citizen and would like to move over to canada and join the army i have no relatives over canada but i have loads of friends and i am just wandering whether there is any way to join the army in canada . please reply many thanx robert hollis


----------



## Michael OLeary

Related threads:

British man wondering if it is possible to join the Canadian Army - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33078.0.html

Brits Joining the Canadian Army - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33593.0.html


----------



## keiron

My name is Keiron Kerr, i'm not a citizen of Canada. i'm from Trinidad and Tobago, i'm 21 years of age i'm intreasted in being in the canadian army is there any other way that i can apply and be accepted?


----------



## winchable

I'm sure the defnitive word from Kincanucks will come along in a bit, but you have to be a Canadian citizen to join the Canadian Military.

You'd honestly have a better chance with the British Military given their stance on commonwealth applicants.


----------



## kincanucks

keiron said:
			
		

> My name is Keiron Kerr, i'm not a citizen of Canada. i'm from Trinidad and Tobago, i'm 21 years of age i'm intreasted in being in the canadian army is there any other way that i can apply and be accepted?



You cannot apply to the Canadian Forces unless you are a Canadian citizen.  Suggest you follow Che's advice.  Good Luck.


----------



## marty737

Hi,
I have been thinking of moving to Canada with my girlfriend who is a citizen. Currently I am in the Australian Army. Does anyone know the process of enlistment for someone from overseas? For me becoming a citizen I have got that process worked out. I have read so much about your Army and would be proud to serve.


----------



## 1feral1

Hi Marty, welcome to the site. What Corps, Unit and location are you. I am based out of Queensland, but due to operational circumstances I should not mention anything else. 

I am sure you'll enjoy things in Canada, should you take the plunge. If you try doing a search on here, you should find your answers, but at the end of the day, contact DND, as the rumour net/bush telegraph here (although helpful and mainly correct) can sometimes be  wrong, and somthing as serious as your request, well you need the right answer in writing.

Good luck!

Wes


----------



## kincanucks

Marty,

See reply#34 on the previous page and that is the only possible way for you to get in the CF without first obtaining your citizenship.


----------



## nicconnor

My husband is considering transfering from the British Army to the Canadian Army. Any advise? Can any on e tell me what housing/accomidation is like? Thanks, Nic


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

Depending on where you live you may want to call a CF recruiting center.  That said do a search here and you should find the information your looking for.

Here is what I found under the forum Recruiting:

See the Canadian Forces Recruiting Site (http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/) for information on joining the Canadian Army. The major item that you will need to address is citizenship. You may also find useful information in these threads:

British man wondering if it is possible to join the Canadian Army - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33078.0.html

Transferring from the British Army. - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31653.0.html

Transfer from the British Army - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/27179.0.html

"ADVICE" Joining Canadian Army from British Army - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17202.0.html


----------



## reccecrewman

You could also try looking up "kincanucks" on the search engine here and click on his name and private message him.  He's very knowledgeable and just happens to be a CF recruiter.  In any event, you being over in the UK, you could use him as a point of contact here to seek more info.

Regards


----------



## commando gunner

The requirement now insisted upon is that the applicant has already immigrated to Canada and has therefore obtained Permanent Residency.  In theory Citizenship is required for Reg Force membership (which takes 3 years of residency before applying) but it is possible to obtain a waiver of this if you meet the requirement below, which is an extract taken from the CF recruiting website:

 Quote :  'To be eligible for consideration for the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following minimal conditions:

* be a Canadian citizen;
o Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under *exceptional *circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country.

and so on.

Add to that losing a rank (at least, if you are a Major you will be offered Capt on 10 yr increment, currently around $80K - not sure about Lt Col and above-this is because unlike UK where it is Lt Col,  Major is the first competitive merit-based Canadian rank )  for Officers and, no matter what seniority you are given, getting 1 weeks less leave than your peers for 5 years.  No wonderif you aspire to be a journeyman soldier, Australia looks most attractive!

Once you immigrate -itself at least a 1 year process (check the govt Canada CIC website to see how that works, or doesn't) you can then apply to join the CF.  Note that obtaining a reliability check will take at least a year for a Brit citizen, regardless of whether you have just left the Army or not and also regardless of what foreign security clearance you already hold. Add to that the obtaining of a waiver just to _apply_ in the first place and it is already probably going to take at least 18 months or so.  On top of all this prevarication at every single level is the norm-people simply do not do their jobs because it is too difficult.  Believe me I know and much as I hope things have changed, I doubt it!

First port of call in all this -before anything else- is the career management for your line of work in order to establish that the vacancies exist and that you are likely to be considered suitable, as this is really a prerequisite for joining at all. Some trades are full already while others are desperately short.  Who this is depends upon the MOC/trade of course so I cannot give anything here but am sure that specific queries on career manager contacts will be freely answered in the forum.

I came through a couple of years ago when the requirement for citizenship had not been imposed -it still took 2 and a half years and that was just getting into the CF-the immigration actually took less than a year, luckily under the old rules it ran concurrently and I actually immigrated only a few months before joining..  


If you want to live in Canada and be in the CF though, in my case it was all very well worth it!

I have the recent CF directive on foreign applicants as a pdf file. Happy to email it to anyone who wants it -let me know by PM.


----------



## geo

Why is it that rules have changed after 9/11?
Uh - the CF felt that recent immigrants, from certain countries, could be security risks. They did not feel comfortable placing Weapons into the hands of people they did not know if they could trust.

when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen... IE: no one is applying and they still need to have the position filled.


----------



## kincanucks

Lets get something perfectly clear here.  No applicant is going to get a citizenship waiver unless the skills they have (read military skills and from a 'friendly' country) are sorely needed by the CF and the position can't be filled by a Canadian citizen.  Education or civilian work experience is not going to get anyone a citizenship waiver.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Hello all,

I was going to post this on the Recruiting forum but to be honest this seems a better place to ask some of the questions I need answers to.

I'm a 25 Yr old Canadian citizen who's currently serving in the Royal Engineers, British Army. I'm a Lance-Corporal and a Class 2 Combat Engineer and Class 2 Engineering Surveyor, and have done tours of Canada (Wainwright and Suffield), Cyprus, Falkland Islands, Germany and an operational tour in Afghanistan. In fact, if any of you were there recently (ie last fall) with the PRT you may well know me, or at least know of me.

Anyways, having reached a bit of a dead end in my career with the British Army (not due to anything disciplinary, just being forced to take a more 'trade' oriented direction as opposed to staying a combat engineer), and being thoroughly fed up with crap pay, crap food, and crap management, I'm looking to 'transfer' back home to the Canadian Engineers, hopefully 1 CER.

Now being a full canadian citizen my problem won't be with immigration, nor was I told there'd be any problems with most of the process by the recruiting centre back home when I saw em on leave. I was more curious as to how my qualifications would equate in the CF, ie rank, trade and experience. 

As a combat engineer I do all the usual stuff, bridges, mines, water supply, dems, field fortifications and basic construction. As a surveyor I'm responsible for setting out, control of line and level, tacheometric surveys (up to 1:2000 scale)using both total station and GPS RTK, road alignment design, aerial photogrammetry and interpretation, and have appropriate civilian qualifications to boot (equivalent to 1st year at a technical college). Finally, as a LCpl in a Section 2IC position in a Field Troop, I do all that normal section admin/getting blokes to do stuff business, and in fact for the past few weeks have constantly found myself in a Sect Comd's position on a few tasks.

So, am I going to have an uphill battle to get all this recognised by the CFRC? The dude I spoke to last summer seemed pretty casual about it, said the longest bit would be the security clearance as I've served in a foreign military, but once that was done I'd get kitted out at the nearest militia unit and go straight out to Edmonton and carry out OJT on your engr kit and drills. He was armd however, so not sure just how much he actually knew about engr skills and quals. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I figure I'd be looking to actually make the move across the pond next summer/fall.

REgards, and ubique...


----------



## kincanucks

It is not the CFRC that has to recognize your British Army training or grant any equivalences for such training it is the Engineer Branch that will do that.  The best thing you can do is make sure that all of your qualifications are well documented so that when the CFRC sends them higher there will be no question how what you did and when you did it.  You are in for a long wait and I don't see you heading down to the 'nearest militia unit' to be kitted out anytime soon.  Good luck.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Well as for documentation that's not a problem, I've held onto every little bit of 'well done for passing the course' bits of paper I've gotten over the past few years, and when I leave will get a nice red folder with all my qualifications, experience etc summed up and signed by the CO and my sqn OC.

Where do you reckon the wait will happen? with the CFRC? and why? Ideally I'd make the switch as seamlessly as possible so would like to know how much of a lead time I need to get everything sorted. The guys at the CFRC said the easiest way would be to undertake a 'black economy' transfer, ie get a 2 year exchange posting with the canadian army and wrangle it through that way, however, as a JNCO I'm not likely to be offered one anytime soon!

Cheers for your help tho.

REgards,

Ed


----------



## kincanucks

_Where do you reckon the wait will happen?_
_said the longest bit would be the security clearance as I've served in a foreign military_

As long as 18 months or more.


----------



## geo

There has been recent agreements between Canada, the UK and Germany about reservists serving in each other's country. This agreement is aimed at students and businessmen who serve - and who would have to release or retire otherwise... this permits members to continue their service in their own trade.....
I do not have the details on the agreement but this might be a mechanism towards what you want.... will see if I can track down info.

With respect to your qualifications and equivalencies, that would be at the discretion of the Engineer branch. will see if I can track down info on how your peddigree can be vetted.

Chimo!


----------



## Towards_the_gap

cheers Geo! have e-mailed a contact in the CF, am waiting on a reply at the moment. from what I heard on the guys on the ground (ie lads from 1 CER) the transistion would be quite seamless, but I assume that's only the joining of 1 CER that they're on about, the actual recruiting process is an unknown at the moment.


----------



## geo

Towardsthegap...
Given that you are a Cdn citzen and that you're serving with the British Army, things may move faster than for your average Tom, Dick & Harry from another country...
Up until 2 months ago, I knew a Cdn Engineer Capt who was attached to a Para engineer unit in the UK .... but he's back on this side of the pond now... will see if I can track him down.

Lord knows you have skills that are in need in any one of the CERs
sill sets that are in demand might fasttrack you.... then again, it might not.

Given that you are a Cdn citzen, you might try to contact the CFRC;
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/army/index_e.aspx?bhcp=1


----------



## Brigada

Hey guys,
I'm a 17 year old student and im supposed to get my canadian citizenship in 4, maximum 6 months.I want to know if the security check will take too long ( some recruiters said no - requirements changed 2 years ago...) because im from eastern europe.any information ? ive been in canada for the past 4 years 
thank you


----------



## aesop081

Brigada said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> I'm a 17 year old student and im supposed to get my canadian citizenship in 4, maximum 6 months.I want to know if the security check will take too long ( some recruiters said no - requirements changed 2 years ago...) because im from eastern europe.any information ? ive been in canada for the past 4 years
> thank you



If you haven't lived in canada for the last 10 years ( Kincanucks correct me if i am wrong) prepare yourself for a very long wait


----------



## kincanucks

Brigada said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> I'm a 17 year old student and im supposed to get my canadian citizenship in 4, maximum 6 months.I want to know if the security check will take too long ( some recruiters said no - requirements changed 2 years ago...) because im from eastern europe.any information ? ive been in canada for the past 4 years
> thank you



Yes the requirements have been changed but in the last year or so.  First thing Canadian citizenship must be obtained before you can apply and secondly you must have been living in Canada for the last ten years or since you were 16 years old.  As for the country of origin, if it is a scheduled country and you still have immediate relatives living there then you may be subject to a pre-assessment.  However, if the recruiters at the CFRC/D have said it will not be an issue then it won't be.

Just a little word of advice:  If you are going to be a citizen of this country try writing it like this 'Canada'.  Notice the capitalization?


----------



## Brigada

Ok I am sorry for the spelling. Canada is indeed spelled with a capital letter, as all other countries.
So if I have stayed in Canada after 16 years of age, the secutiry check might not take that long ?
Ty


----------



## kincanucks

Brigada said:
			
		

> Ok I am sorry for the spelling. Canada is indeed spelled with a capital letter, as all other countries.
> So if I have stayed in Canada after 16 years of age, the secutiry check might not take that long ?
> Ty



Yes if you have been in Canada since you were 16 years old it should not be an issue.


----------



## TCBF

"because im from eastern europe.any information ? ive been in canada for the past 4 years..."

- At one point in Lahr, 1/3 of my Lynx Patrol spoke Polish.

One of the guys came out from behind the Iron Curtain with his family, ended up at Jane and Finch where he learned a unique brand of English playing with the kids in the 'hood.  We were doing Nijmegan in 91, and he ran into a guy from his hometown who was on the Polish Naval Infantry Nijmegan Team.  They had a lot of gossip to catch up on.

Tom


----------



## Brigada

Thank you for the information, I feel much better now. Let's hope that everything goes well with the citizenship procedures.


----------



## rolandsg

I know this question is been beaten over and over but I'm goanna give it one more shot ...
Is there any chance for a permanent resident to join ? 
While I appreciate any advice and opinion, I'd prefer some factual information...
If you are/were a permanent resident when you joined and/or know anybody 
who has ever accomplished this ... please tell me how you managed this ...
What are you skills, nationality ... etc (any info you think is pertinent) ?

Are medical doctors really the only ones who get citizenship waivers ? What 
about engineers ( i have a master's in aerospace eng. from mcgill). While I realize this
is not exactly exceptional I somehow doubt there are that many engineers wanting to join

Do you guys think it's worth trying to request a citizenship waiver from the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Headquarters
or I'm just waisting my time. If I do request one and it is not granted will this affected me negatively if say in 2-3 years I try again...

Thanks for all ur help !


----------



## Franko

rolandsg said:
			
		

> I know this question is been beaten over and over but I'm goanna give it one more shot ...
> Is there any chance for a permanent resident to join ?



All members of the CF are perminante residents....with exception to the ones you mentioned.

Can you clarify your question/ statement a bit?

Regards


----------



## rolandsg

Hi Franko,

I apologize for not making it clear. What I mean by permanent resident is a landed immigrant who resides in Canada (has permanent resident status) but who does not hold Canadian citizenship yet.

On the recruiting website it says that normally you need to hold Canadian Citizenship but one can request a waiver from the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Headquarters of this requirement if you poses skills currently in demand . I was mostly wandering if anybody knows of anybody who's ever accomplished this. I saw a lot of posts and opinions on this issue but nothing factual... it seems to be a very gray area...

I was also wandering if lets say I decided to send an application 
(for citizenship waiver) just for kicks and it gets denied, Will this affect me negatively if I decided to try again in the future...

I'm 24 now and I'd really like to do this know as I'm afraid that a few years down the line I'll be too tangled up in other things to pull this through 

Thanks a lot


----------



## Franko

I would dare say go in to the recruiting center and ask. You have nothing to loose.

Besides, getting your citizenship will at least give you better odds of getting in anyways. Why wait?

Regards


----------



## commando gunner

rolandsg said:
			
		

> Hi Franko,
> 
> I apologize for not making it clear. What I mean by permanent resident is a landed immigrant who resides in Canada (has permanent resident status) but who does not hold Canadian citizenship yet.
> 
> On the recruiting website it says that normally you need to hold Canadian Citizenship but one can request a waiver from the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Headquarters of this requirement if you poses skills currently in demand . I was mostly wandering if anybody knows of anybody who's ever accomplished this. I saw a lot of posts and opinions on this issue but nothing factual... it seems to be a very gray area...
> 
> I was also wandering if lets say I decided to send an application
> (for citizenship waiver) just for kicks and it gets denied, Will this affect me negatively if I decided to try again in the future...
> 
> I'm 24 now and I'd really like to do this know as I'm afraid that a few years down the line I'll be too tangled up in other things to pull this through
> 
> Thanks a lot



You must have skills that are very much in demand in order to get in with a waiver of citizenship. This usually translates into specialized military quals which therefore almost invariably means you have experience in another country's forces.  You can frankly forget even trying otherwise and whats more- you will be wasting a recruiters time who has better things to do.  Get citizenship and go from there.

You would also be well advised to search the site as this has been covered any number of times already...

You were correct by the way-Permanent Resident is the term for what used to be called a Landed Immigrant and it is used to differentiate between citizens and those who have immigrated but not qualified/applied for citizenship.


----------



## bygeorge

hi,  ;D
I'm a 33 year old female, Class 2 PTI in the British Army, ushup: my rank is Cpl, I've spent 10 years in the army, the first 9 as a Vehicle Mechanic and the last 4 as a PTI, the last 2 I've spent as a full time PTI training recruits at the main training regiment in the UK. I'm looking for some information regarding transferring across to the Canadian army as a PTI.  ???   
1. Am i to old? :-X
2. Could i join up as a PTI, or is it like the British Army where you have to start out in another trade? :tank:
3. Are British Military qualifications recognised in the Canadian Army? :argument:


----------



## 1feral1

bygeorge said:
			
		

> hi,  ;D
> I'm a 33 year old female, Class 2 PTI in the British Army, ushup: my rank is Cpl, I've spent 10 years in the army, the first 9 as a Vehicle Mechanic and the last 4 as a PTI, the last 2 I've spent as a full time PTI training recruits at the main training regiment in the UK. I'm looking for some information regarding transferring across to the Canadian army as a PTI.  ???
> 1. Am i to old? :-X
> 2. Could i join up as a PTI, or is it like the British Army where you have to start out in another trade? :tank:
> 3. Are British Military qualifications recognised in the Canadian Army? :argument:



Hi, well if the Canucks won't take ya, try www.defencejobs.gov.au or www.army.gov.au 

Australia is always on the hunt for skilled soldiers who they feel would be an asset to the ADF. Plenty of British, Kiwis and the odd Canuck here, most former members of their respective Defence Forces, and happy they came accross.

The ADF should recognise portions of your fomer service, and they will explain what is required. They did with me, and anyone else that I have spoke to, all of course of the British Commonwealth.

Your REME qualifications are a bonus too, as my EME  courses etc were. All recognised except my SLC (WO's Course). I had to take a Corps Subject 2 for SGT within 12 months to keep my rank, and the same Corps Subject 2 for CPL possibly for you. Who knows, but worth while checking it out.

Canada and Australia have many things in common, former colonial places, vast countries, sparsley populated, and mainly from the same NW European background, and the climate here is a true asset.

Here the $$ is good, living conditions are excellent, as is the weather and the people. Plus after 2 yrs you get your citizenship, and you can't beat that.

Good luck, and if ya wanna know more feel free to PM me.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## sapper383

I am currently serving in the British Army reserve Royal Engineers, and I am looking to move to Canada in the not too distant future. What are the rules on british soldiers/citizens joing the Canadian reserve?


----------



## geo

CF Recruiting web site: http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/contactus/index_e.aspx

... 1st of all, having said that, there is a current policy that stipulates "all" foreign nationals must obtain Cdn citzenship prior to enrolling into the CF BUT you might want to inquiring from the UK to do a foreign exchange "attached posting". the Cdn Forces does have agreements with the UK and Germany... 
That my friend could be your "in".
Kincanucks is in the Recruiting mill and might have more data on this option.... else have someone in your unit Orderly room get you more info on the subject

Best of luck

CHIMO!

CFAO 223-11 -- FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS -- CANADIAN FORCES AND BRITISH ARMY PERSONNEL ON LOAN, EXCHANGE OR ATTACHMENT PURPOSE

1.     This order prescribes the financial arrangements for members of the
Canadian Forces (CF) and British Army, who are serving on loan, attachment
or exchange with the British Army or CF respectively.

GENERAL

2.     This order is based on an international agreement, developed prior to integration between the British Army and the Canadian Army. Thus the original terms, conditions and format must be retained until a new agreement is negotiated.

DEFINITIONS

3.     In this order:

ATTACHMENT
     means the agreement made between Canada and Britain whereby members of
     the CF or the British Army including students attending courses, are
     sent from Britain or Canada to serve in Canada or Britain
     respectively, under arrangements made between the two countries.


----------



## tankie

Hey all,

Does anybody have a hint about changing from the British to the Canadian Army?  

Currently I'm a Sgt in the Royal Tank Regiment, and my job is Tp Sgt/tank commander, tons of military quals and 17 years of experience.

Please help!


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin

You might want to PM Dragoon19.  He did it years ago...from a situation almost exactly like yours.


----------



## AmmoTech90

Heh,

I know what the first mod's post is going to be...a lot of coloured text and probably the words "search" and "start reading" so I'll try to head that off.

Quag has made a nice little list of posts covering this already.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/39449.0.html

I know you've got the main hurdle overcome.  PM me and I can see who I can get in touch with on this side of the pond.

D


----------



## kincanucks

Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country. 

Information for Non-Canadian Citizens

Canadian Forces (CF) policy states that in order to be eligible for enrolment into the Forces, applicants must hold Canadian citizenship. The only exception made to this policy is as follows.

Applicants who: are not Canadian citizens, but do hold Permanent Resident Status; and possess specialized skills / qualifications the CF has need of and cannot fill with a Canadian citizen; and do not pose a risk to any national interest; may only be enrolled into the Canadian Forces if permission is granted by the Commander of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group (CFRG).

Application Procedure for Non-
Canadian Citizens

As you do not currently hold Canadian citizenship, you will have to be granted a Citizenship Waiver by the Commander of CFRG before starting any of the selection testing. In order to do this you must provide a curriculum vitae (CV) or resume to:

Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Headquarters
Attention: SSO Selection
Canadian Forces Base Borden
PO Box 1000, Station Main
Borden, Ontario L0M 1C0

The CV / resume should include:

Personal Information

Name (in full)
Date and place of birth
Brief outline of where you have lived (include dates)
Where your immediate family is currently residing (include parent, siblings, spouse and parents-in-law)
Reasons for your relocation to Canada
Date of arrival in Canada and date, you were granted Permanent Resident Status

Education
Name of all educational institutions attended
Grade / Level completed and year of completion
Diplomas / Degrees awarded
Areas of specialization
Marks / Grade Point Averages
Apprenticeship / Journeyman qualifications

Employment
List all part-time, summer or full-time employment positions you have held
Dates for each position
Brief description of duties for each position
Qualifications or training you received "on-the-job"

Activities

List all volunteer positions you may have held
List all clubs / organizations / community groups you have belonged to
If there are any other points, or pertinent facts you would like to include, please feel free to do so.
Once you have submitted your CV / resume, it will be assessed by the Headquarters to determine what skills you possess that may be of benefit to the CF. Once this assessment has been completed you will be contacted directly and told whether or not a waiver of your citizenship has been granted. You will not undergo any of the selection testing until you have been granted this Citizenship Waiver.


----------



## geo

Another avenue to explore might be the exchange programs that exist between the UK, German and Cdn forces for it's reserve personnel..... while I am not familiar with the actual policy, there are fairly extensive programs that you might be able to wiggle thru with.


----------



## cole

has anyone heard of  someone successfully transferring from the British army (or any other commonwealth army) to the Canadian army. i have known a lot of people that have transferred to the New Zealand or Australian Army and wondered if it is possible with the Canadian Army.
cheers for any help.
Andy


----------



## geo

Cole,
In many respects, it's a matter of the trade you have and if we are in dire need of em.
But everything and anything is possible..... not necessarily easy though.


----------



## kincanucks

cole said:
			
		

> has anyone heard of  someone successfully transferring from the British army (or any other commonwealth army) to the Canadian army. i have known a lot of people that have transferred to the New Zealand or Australian Army and wondered if it is possible with the Canadian Army.
> cheers for any help.
> Andy



Yes certainly after they left the military they were in, immigrated to this country, became permanent residence and applied using the information I have posted above.  This is not the British military who have a Commonwealth Recruiting office and there is no quick way for someone from a Commonwealth country to get in our military.  That is all there is to it and there is no secret handshake.


----------



## TDMsoldier

im in French marines infantry (infantrie de marine) in the Régiment de Marche du Tchad been serving in the french army for 1 year i have a 5 years contract going in Chad in january for 5 months. when i finish my contract i want to come back to canada and join the  CF, i have the french and the canadian citizenship. can any one tell me if it is possible.


----------



## Jungle

"Forces to consider recruiting non-citizens"

http://server09.densan.ca/archivenews/060821/cit/060821ao.htm

Good luck to all...


----------



## geo

TDM,
if you have Cdn Citzenship, you certainly have an oportunity to join the CF.
Per the above post, you might have been eligible to join, as a Fr national by the end of your Contract with the French marines.

give us a call when your time is done.


----------



## soytokemon

Hi everybody. I'm kinda fed up of my highly corrupt Mexico and planning to move to Canada.
I'm 38, Simultaneous Interpreter (english-spanish) speak 80% french and some Italian. Mechanics trainer from VW. (Need practice, too much teaching). Would it be possible to apply for joining the Reserves? Thank you all for your kind comments and comprehension. 
"I rather die on my feet than living on my knees" (Emiliano Zapata, Mexican revolutionary)


----------



## kincanucks

soytokemon said:
			
		

> Hi everybody. I'm kinda fed up of my highly corrupt Mexico and planning to move to Canada.
> I'm 38, Simultaneous Interpreter (english-spanish) speak 80% french and some Italian. Mechanics trainer from VW. (Need practice, too much teaching). Would it be possible to apply for joining the Reserves? Thank you all for your kind comments and comprehension.
> "I rather die on my feet than living on my knees" (Emiliano Zapata, Mexican revolutionary)



Due to the fact you are a civilian who is not a citizen of Canada the answer would be no.


----------



## Centurian1985

soytokemon said:
			
		

> Hi everybody. I'm kinda fed up of my highly corrupt Mexico and planning to move to Canada.
> I'm 38, Simultaneous Interpreter (english-spanish) speak 80% french and some Italian. Mechanics trainer from VW. (Need practice, too much teaching). Would it be possible to apply for joining the Reserves? Thank you all for your kind comments and comprehension.
> "I rather die on my feet than living on my knees" (Emiliano Zapata, Mexican revolutionary)



Quoting Mexican revolutionaries may also be a deterrant to your aspirations.  :tsktsk:


----------



## adubois

I'd like to know about the Canadian Army's policy on foreign nationals. I know Permenent Residents can serve in the Canadian Army, but what if you're in another country and want to join the Canadian Army? Other countries allow foreign nationals to serve in their military, does Canada and where can information be obtained about that? Thank you.


----------



## Michael OLeary

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/v3/engraph/resources/howtojoin_en.aspx?bhcp=1



> Basic Eligibility Requirements   	  Top
> 
> *To be eligible for consideration for the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following minimal conditions:
> 
> * be a Canadian citizen;
> o Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country.*
> 
> * be 17 years of age (with parental/guardian consent) or older;
> o junior level Military College applicants must be 16 years of age;
> o you may be enrolled in the Reserves providing you are 16 years of age;
> 
> * meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or occupation;
> o this can vary from Grade 10 (Sec III in Quebec) for combat arms occupations to a university degree for the Direct Entry Officer entry plan.


----------



## cplcaldwell

Take a look at the Recruiting site

No, Canada does not have a Foreign Legion or a Regiment of Gurkhas (or similar thing..)

_<edit: M O'L beat me to it>_


----------



## Trinity

cplcaldwell said:
			
		

> Take a look at the Recruiting site
> 
> No, Canada does not have a Foreign Legion or a Regiment of Gurkhas (or similar thing..)



BUT HOW COULD WE NOT!!!!!!!!!


Imagine having a company of "crazy canuks"!!!

Now that's a better name than foreign legion or gurkhas... crazy canuks!

Of course, like the foreign legion we'd have to make them learn our language, i.e. Canadian.
Which really just means saying eh without realizing it and saying Toronto like "toronna".

 ;D


----------



## adubois

No I don't mean a foreign legion, I mean joining the regular Canadian Army if you are in another country.


----------



## Trinity

adubois said:
			
		

> No I don't mean a foreign legion, I mean joining the regular Canadian Army if you are in another country.



What part of the response by Michael O'leary did you not understand?

Or did you fail to read it and want someone to spell it out for you.

NO 





> However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country.


  So essentially NO.


----------



## cplcaldwell

Your *location* is not particularly important. Your *citizenship* is.


If you are a Canadian living in Poland, no problem.
If you are a Pole living in Canada, problem.
If you are a Pole living in Poland, problem.

My allusion to a Foreign Legion, is for example, how the French get around the problem of having non-citizens in the Army. We don't do that

As Trinity says, see Mr O'Leary's post, its cut-and-paste from the CF recruiting site.

_No slight to Poles intended, in fact I never met a Pole I didn't like, here or in Poland ;D_


----------



## adubois

How long do you have to live in Canada to become a permenent resident? I tried googling it but couldn't find anything specific.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Thanks to Google:

How to Become a Canadian Citizen
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/menu-howto.html


----------



## gussosa

I am close to graduate in Industrial Engineering and Mechanical Engineering (it's a double degree here) from Uruguay. I am fluent in english and get some french (and native spanish and portuguese and some italian)

What are my chances of becoming a DEO, as landed immigrant or with a citizenship waiver?  

I want to be full time in the Army, with the zappers.


Gustavo Sosa


----------



## jeqsy

so, in 3 yeasr i can become a candian citizen?
i have alredy 1 year, just studying english in p.e.i.
1 more year to study personal training in halifax
1 more year working or doing whatver (in canadian territory of course)

after that, citizenship?


----------



## geo

You have to apply and wait for bureaucracy to follow it's course.

Look it up on the internet......... it's all there.


----------



## roninrhj

I would be interested in hearing from any recruiters on the board who would have experience with other Commonwealth countries joining the CF. With regards to having prior military experience in specialty fields  . Please PM/IM me for specifics.


Regards

Rj


----------



## Yuli

I am currently working on Canadian citizenship, am in the United States Marine Corps in Okinawa, and would like to continue my career in the Canadian military.  How much trouble would I have in the dispensation from my current EAS to enlisting in the CF?  Would I need to speak to a prior-service recruiter since I will have been former active duty military or no?


----------



## kincanucks

Since you have to be in Canada to obtain a citizenship you have a long way to go.  Move to Canada, get your citizenship and then you can join the CF.


----------



## PLuke

Not sure if im posting in the right part of the forum, if im not then plz forgive, thx.

I have been thinking about joining for quite some time now, and i would have joined if i had gotten my citizenship, but i haven't yet. So this brings up a question thats been on my mind for a while now.

"Can i join the army even tho i do not have my citizenship yet?"

I have already applied, been waiting for about 4 months now, i have gotten the study package in mail, but no test date yet.

I heard something about landed immigrants being able to join before they get their citizenship but do not know if it's true.

Can anyone give me any info about this matter, please?

Thank you


----------



## navymich

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/v3/engraph/resources/howtojoin_en.aspx?bhcp=1#be



> To be eligible for consideration for the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following minimal conditions:
> 
> - be a Canadian citizen;
> 
> - Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country.


----------



## sunnyliston

Hello All--
I am new to the forum but was hoping it could assist me in answering a question regarding the Reserves. I am currently a Permanent Resident of Canda who is eligible for Canadian Citizenship in November 2007. Because of the lengthy application time for Citizenship I will miss the start of (weekend) Basic Training that runs from January to June, and will have to wait another full year to complete Basic. I was wondering if there was any type of waiver I might get so that I can join the Reserves NOW with the intent of getting my citizenship when I am eligibe. 

If anyone has any contact ideas please let me know. All suggestions will help. I meet all of the entry requirements except for the Citizenship part!!

Cheers!!!


----------



## R.O.S

There is also the issue of how long you have lived in Canada. I do not remember the specifics of how long you need to live in Canada for you not to have a background check. The background check itself will take sometimes near a year to be processed. If you do not have to take the background check, but cannot join because of your citizenship issue, then after you do get your citizenship there is also the possibility of joining some units in the Fall. Good luck.


----------



## sunnyliston

Thanks--

I will join and start training with a Unit ASAP, that is my plan. I have undergone numerous background checks (FBI, New York State Police, RCMP fingerprinting) for Immigration...you would think that would be sufficient. I have also lived in Canada close to 4 years, but only 1.5 as a Permanent Resident (they require 2 as a PR for Citizenship).

I'm just not sure who to get in touch with to attempt getting a waiver to join now??


----------



## R.O.S

Check with your local recruiter about both the background check and the waiver... remember to say that you will be getting your citizenship really early. Try also emailing the recruitment website where they may be able to direct you.


----------



## geo

ROS'
Unless you are a Canadian Citzen, you are Outa luck with enrolling in the CF... unless you have a skill / qualification that the CF needs & does not have.

Those are the rules, as they are written now.  The Recruiting system is jammed full of applicants - I have doubts you can squeak through on a technicality BUT, I have been known to make the occasional error (shudder & gasp) ... give err a try & see what it gets ya.

Good luck


----------



## Sham

GL. As I will be in your position sometime soon myself..I done it all bassackwards
so I plan on fixing it by 2-3 yrs of college in Canada and such.
But GL and let me know how things work out.


----------



## sunnyliston

Alright Everyone!!

I've actually answered my own question...ROS was right. You may apply for a citizenship waiver, but the only ones they are (supposedly) accepting right now are for Doctors. Otherwise, you need to have a skill or qualification that there is a need for.

Thanks for everyone's help!! I am just someone trying to make a difference, serve my new country and have some fun along the way...I might try to apply for a waiver anyways...can't hurt, and I do have a medical background...Good luck to anyone else in the same boat!! 

If you have any questions about Immigration I've been through it all!!

Cheers!


----------



## geo

.... which is pert much what I told ya.
The rules aren't there to block you, they aren't there to $crew you. They are there to make the process move faster by letting everyone know what can and cannot be done and say plainly why.


----------



## medaid

sunnyliston,  just like Geo said, and you yourself have discovered. I have had to turn away many applicants, and potential applicants because they do not meet the citizenship requirement. Keep your head up, and if this is what you'd like to do later on, then all the power to you. Good luck in your application.


----------



## Can-american

Hello to all as some of you may know I am in service with the United States Army and am coming home on "leave" before our return to the sandbox, I am hoping to talk to one of the reserve units when I return to Canada, British Columbia either Vancouver or the New Westminster regiment.  Hope to hear back from you, I am frailly busy right now with two range days for the last bit of this week.  So next time I jump on is when I return to Canada this Saturday.  Thanks very much take care, Can Am


----------



## mbatisah

My advance apologies as I realize this question has been asked before, however, the threads in which I found it addressed were 2006 and before and I understand the situation may have changed (or I may be incorrect on this point). 

I am an American citizen and my job will require me to relocate to Canada soon. I was currently interested in joining the Washington (where I'm from) National Guard but that will obviously no longer be possible. I've read the official website material about foreigners joining the CF Reserves but am wondering, on a practical level, how likely would it be for a non-citizen of Canada to be accepted into the Primary Reserves? As in - is it relatively easy, relatively possible, fairly difficult or essentially impossible? If there's any degree of possibility are there differences in level of difficulty of acceptance in the Land Force Reserve vs. the Air Reserve vs. Health Services Reserve etc.? 

Many thanks in advance for your assistance.


----------



## Zoomie

You will need to be able to work legally in Canada in order for the PRes recruiters to even look at you - Landed Immigrant Status = green card.

I believe that there is also a requirement that you must start actively seeking Canadian Citizenship after 2+ years in service.

Go to www.forces.ca and see what they have to offer.


----------



## SuperMaWiiOH

Hi my names Josh. I served a short period in the U.S. Air Force and received an honorable discharge. I'm curious about the Canadian Forces and joining them. I'm not a Canadian citizen, so what are my chances of getting permission from CFRG? Would I have to do Canadas basic training/boot camp? Rate which military branch boot camp is easiest to hardest. I'm open to the Army, Navy, and Air Force, but I've read theres not a lot of Navy bases. Does CF have overseas bases as well as in Canada? Does CF pay for a place for you to live, like if your married you get to live in a house on base without paying for it? Sorry lots of questions!!! Thanks!!!


----------



## chrisf

Answered in short, because there are answers aplenty already in the forums.



			
				SuperMaWiiOH said:
			
		

> Hi my names Josh. I served a short period in the U.S. Air Force and received an honorable discharge. I'm curious about the Canadian Forces and joining them. I'm not a Canadian citizen, so what are my chances of getting permission from CFRG?



Non-Existant.



> Would I have to do Canadas basic training/boot camp?



More then likely, yes.



> Rate which military branch boot camp is easiest to hardest. I'm open to the Army, Navy, and Air Force,



They're all exactly the same, personnel from all branches attend/teach the same basic course.



> Does CF have overseas bases as well as in Canada?



No.



> Does CF pay for a place for you to live, like if your married you get to live in a house on base without paying for it?



No.


----------



## George Wallace

One of the Three Criteria to join the Canadian Forces, Regular or Primary Reserve, is:  "Must be a Canadian Citizen".


----------



## CFFB

Interesting tidbit about transferring to the CF from another commonwealth country.  

I sailed with a guy that re-enrolled in the CF after 4 years.  The reason he left in the first place was that he "transferred" to the Australian Navy after his first 6 years in the Canadian Navy.  As he told it, the day he left the Canadian Navy an Australian exchange officer took him out for supper and swore him in to the Australian Navy and they flew him down there right away.  (I'm sure there was a lot of paper work before that to get in, but the final step was a supper in downtown Halifax)

When he got to Australia they gave him the rank of Leading Seaman, and he didn't need to take any career courses. He was posted to a ship right away, employed in the same trade that he was in Canada (Naval Communicator).  

After that adventure was over he moved back to Canada.  Not only was he unable to "transfer" to the CF from the Australian Navy, the only reason he didn't have to do basic again was he was only gone four years.  Had it been five he would have had to go to St Jean and do it all over again.  I think he did work out a deal that he only had to redo his 5's because there had been some significant changes to the Naval Communicators occupation since he left.  But as he told it, there was absolutely no benefit given to him from the CF for his time served in Australia.  

I realize this is anecdotal, and not really black and white, but and interesting story none the less.


----------



## PMedMoe

I'm assuming he never gave up his Canadian citizenship when serving in Australia.
BTW, not everyone who has been out for 5 years or more has to do basic again.  ;D


----------



## dapaterson

The Aussies have an aggressive poaching recruiting campaign within commonwealth countries.  Numerous F-18 pilots took FRP from Canada and enlistment bonuses from Australia in the 90s.

Canada hasn't seen fit to reciprocate (though the CF pension does have terms covering Commonwealth service).

Equivalencies for foreign service can be problematic - often equipment is radically different, and doctrine may be as well.  Getting a grasp on what someone has been trained on in a foreign military an be difficult (even getting equivalencies for old CF courses can be a pain).


----------



## CFFB

> I'm assuming he never gave up his Canadian citizenship when serving in Australia.
> BTW, not everyone who has been out for 5 years or more has to do basic again



No he didn't give up his Canadian Citizenship.  

He was told though that had he applied a few months later he would have had to do Basic over though.  Like everything, I'm sure offers are on a case by case basis.  

My point was more that CF training is quite respected throughout the world. And to point out that while other countries will accept training from Canada and take "transfers", I highly doubt that the CF would do the same.


----------



## PMedMoe

CFFB said:
			
		

> My point was more that CF training is quite respected throughout the world. And to point out that while other countries will accept training from Canada and take "transfers", I highly doubt that the CF would do the same.



I agree and doubt that the CF would accept other countries' training.  Why would they is ours is better?


----------



## Towards_the_gap

I knew my ears were burning for a reason....

I'm a canadian citizen who has just returned to Canada from 6 years in the British Army.

All my qualifications are transferrable, dependant upon the PLAR process, and my British Army service counts both towards pension and CD. 

I am rushed for time right now so cannot spend long typing away, I will return in a bit and spill the beans on the process. It is complicated, not the most straightforward, but very possible, and so far, very worthwhile.


----------



## CFFB

> I agree and doubt that the CF would accept other countries' training.  Why would they is ours is better?



I couldn't say one way or another.  Maybe they are just more willing to make adjustments to their recruiting standards to get the numbers up.


----------



## kitrad1

Pretty straight forward policy:

Eligibility requirements vary for each occupation. There are, however, basic eligibility requirements common to all occupations within the CF:

- Be a Canadian citizen.  Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when a Canadian citizen cannot fill the position, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced; 

- Be 17 years of age (with parental/guardian consent) or older; junior level Military College applicants must be 16 years of age; you may be enrolled in the Reserves providing you are 16 years of age; and

- Meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or 
occupation. 


The only exception:

a. Applicants who are not Canadian citizens, but do hold Permanent Resident Status; and

b. Possess specialized skills/qualifications the CF has need of and cannot fill with a Canadian citizen; and

c. Do not pose a risk to any national interest; may only be enrolled into the CF if permission is granted by the Commander of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group (CFRG).

If one does not currently hold Canadian citizenship, but have Permanent Resident status in Canada you will have to be granted a Citizenship Waiver by the Commander CFRG prior to starting any of the selection testing. In order to do this, you must provide a curriculum vitae (CV) or resumé to CFRG HQ. I believe that the format is available at:http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/resources/noncanadians_en.aspx?bhcp=1


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Ok, apologies for the rushed post previously.

The CF DOES recognise foreign military training, experience and service. I have been granted a slightly lower rank than what I held in the British Army, however all my training and experience is directly transferrable. In fact, some of my training contains skill sets apparently on the wane in the Canadian Army, and so I can be a very valuable asset to my gaining unit.

The key to this was my Prior Learning Assessment and Recognition, which was, AFAIK, completed by DAT, who hold information on all equivalent training for each trade in both the CF and many foreign militaries. You have more chance of getting recognition if your experience was with an ABCA/NATO country of course, due to similarities and standardization. 

On the other hand, I know for a fact that unless you have proven civilian qualifications, and are applying for a technical trade, the British Army does not generally accept foreign military experience. I have met former members of the Australian infantry who had to complete CIC at Catterick prior to field army employment, regardless of how much prior experience they had.


----------



## 1feral1

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I'm assuming he never gave up his Canadian citizenship when serving in Australia.
> BTW, not everyone who has been out for 5 years or more has to do basic again.  ;D



No, and you don't do that period. You must however acknowledge you will apply for Australian citizenship within 90 days of being elegible for it. Holding two passports is not an issue.

If you are a CF Mbr or from the UK etc, one can now do a a leteral transfer, and come accross. Might drop a rank, might have to take some leadership courses, but what you learned in the CF does have merrit, and counts.

Pretty sad the CF does not recognise service in another country?? I thought they did, as we had a guy come from Gyana (former British Gyana), where he did 10 yrs there (REME related Corps). Once in the CF, within two yrs he had his CD, and they brought him in as a MCPL, left the CF, retired as a a WO some 15 yrs later.

Cheers,

Wes


Regards,

Wes

Wanna know more? Try www.defencejobs.gov.au


----------



## CFFB

I never realized that one could do a lateral transfer from foreign militaries.  This has been quite enlightening.  

WRT to the PLAR, I wish I had learned about this earlier.  I'm heading off for BMOQ in the new year and didn't realize that I could have submitted one to get credit towards some of the training.  It may not have gone anywhere but you never know unless you try.  (More to follow on a different thread.)

Thanks for the info  *Towards_the_gap*, like I said, very interesting.


----------



## ModlrMike

Submit the req for PLAR when you graduate BMQ. You have nothing to lose.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

It's not so much a 'lateral transfer', as discharging from one service, and re-enlisting in another. However, at least the option is there.

WRT to PLAR, my advice is just grit your teeth through BMQ, provided you keep your head down and don't get an attitude like 'this is bullcrap, I don't need to be here', your previous experience will show through. Once in your unit, push for the PLAR. 


I presume you have all your discharge paperwork? In my case, I was given a summary page with length of service, regimental number, then another couple of pages detailing all my tour details, awards, courses and qualifications. This should be submitted when you ask for the PLAR.

Feel free to ask me any other questions, I've just finished the process myself and received alot of help from this website, and am more than willing to help others.


----------



## George Wallace

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> If you are a CF Mbr or from the UK etc, one can now do a a leteral transfer, and come accross. Might drop a rank, might have to take some leadership courses, but what you learned in the CF does have merrit, and counts.
> 
> Wanna know more? Try www.defencejobs.gov.au



Please take note.  Wes is talking about Canadians joining the Australian military, not Canadians serving in the Australian forces and returning to Canada to rejoin the CF.

He adds:



			
				Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Pretty sad the CF does not recognise service in another country?? I thought they did, as we had a guy come from Gyana (former British Gyana), where he did 10 yrs there (REME related Corps). Once in the CF, within two yrs he had his CD, and they brought him in as a MCPL, left the CF, retired as a a WO some 15 yrs later.



Let's keep this topic on track.


----------



## 1feral1

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> It's not so much a 'lateral transfer', as discharging from one service, and re-enlisting in another. However, at least the option is there.



Not straying too far off target, but just some minor clarification.....

When I came accross in 1995, this was indeed the case. A discharge and re-enlistment, and then a two year wait for citizenship.

This has now changed in Australia. We had two recent arrivals from the UK to our regiment (both were SSGTs busted to CPL). A third arrives in January (officer) We had started talking about how times had changed, and they both called it lateral transfers, which was new to me, and the citizenship was only a matter of months, instead of the 2 year period. A good carrot to dangle, with a mininum 4 yrs ROSO (Return Of Service Obligation).

I had never heard of the term lateral transfer until last week. Yes one still has to discharge and 're-enlist', but the name scheme has changed, and there might be other perks aside from the citizenship deal.


Cheers from a steamy hot morning,


Wes


----------



## ark

http://www.dnd.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2209

There is an agreement on foreign service between Canada and AU concerning reservists. Does anyone have the actual details of this agreement?


----------



## daftandbarmy

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Ok, apologies for the rushed post previously.
> 
> The CF DOES recognise foreign military training, experience and service. I have been granted a slightly lower rank than what I held in the British Army, however all my training and experience is directly transferrable. In fact, some of my training contains skill sets apparently on the wane in the Canadian Army, and so I can be a very valuable asset to my gaining unit.
> 
> The key to this was my Prior Learning Assessment and Recognition, which was, AFAIK, completed by DAT, who hold information on all equivalent training for each trade in both the CF and many foreign militaries. You have more chance of getting recognition if your experience was with an ABCA/NATO country of course, due to similarities and standardization.
> 
> On the other hand, I know for a fact that unless you have proven civilian qualifications, and are applying for a technical trade, the British Army does not generally accept foreign military experience. I have met former members of the Australian infantry who had to complete CIC at Catterick prior to field army employment, regardless of how much prior experience they had.



I can vouch for that. The UK didn't recognize any of my CF qualifications (AWT, Para Course, Phase 1-3 Inf) and I had to start from scratch. No big deal though as I was far ahead of some of my peers who had had virtually no prior service. When I got back to Canada, the CF didn't have any equivalencies for some of my UK qualifications so they couldn't officially recognize them here. They did recognize some of the basics though (e.g., rank and time in, some career course quals). Funny, we don't seem to have a qualification for Basic Operational malay. Odd ... 

However, people with special trade qualifications that are in demand might get away with it these days.


----------



## dapaterson

ark said:
			
		

> http://www.dnd.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2209
> 
> There is an agreement on foreign service between Canada and AU concerning reservists. Does anyone have the actual details of this agreement?



You require support of your chain of command - your parent unit will contineu to pay you for your service abroad.  There's a similar MOU in place with the UK.

If you are thinking about it, seek out detailed information in advance, and make arrangements in advance.


----------



## imedic

Hi there, I'm an New Zealand Army Medic.  I've just completed my intermediate level training (which is the required standard to be deployable).

I'm interested in joining the CF with the goal of becoming a SARTech.  I understand the requirements of being considered for recruitment into the CF are a minimum age of 17, being a Canadian citizen (or in special circumstances being a Permanent Resident with special skills) as well as meeting the minimum education requirements.

What I'm wondering is whether my medical training constitutes special skills that the CF would like to have.  Is there any particular shortage of medics at the moment?

I dont want to go through the whole rigmarole of becoming a permanent resident then being told that I cant even join the CF let alone become a SARTech.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

NOTE. The name of the outfit that the majority of members here belong to is called The *CANADIAN* Armed Forces."  It's for Canadians and those who don't consider being one "rigmarole."


----------



## imedic

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> It's for Canadians and those who don't consider being one "rigmarole."



I apologise if you took the word "rigmarole" in the wrong context - it was not meant in an disparaging manner towards Canada or the Canadian Forces.  It was used to describe residency procedures - the definition being "A lengthy and complicated procedure" as the process of becoming a resident in almost any country is a convoluted one.


----------



## George Wallace

Try the CF Recruiting site's "Chat" feature.  It is up and running, but is not 24/7.


----------



## RCL

I'm a Soldier in the United States Army, I am stationed at Ft. Riley Kansas as of present. I have about a year left in my term of enlistment, after of which I plan to go home a get my Degree. After that I plan to move to Canada, where to I'm not so sure as of yet. I am Airborne qualified and Sniper Qualified, I'm an Infantryman with 2 years experiance so far, will have just over three after I discharge, I have a deployment to Iraq with another on the way. Should make my E-5 (SGT) before I get out aswell, E-4 (SPC) at the moment though.

Basiclly, my questions are:
As an American, what do I have to do to Enlist?

What are my options with my Current Qualifications?

What Active Units would I be able to join?

At what rank would I enlist as?

This is a dumb question, but are american decorations allowed/authorized to be worn on a Canadian Forces uniform?


Thanks for your help in advance!
Airborne-ATW!


----------



## The_Falcon

RCL said:
			
		

> I'm a Soldier in the United States Army, I am stationed at Ft. Riley Kansas as of present. I have about a year left in my term of enlistment, after of which I plan to go home a get my Degree. After that I plan to move to Canada, where to I'm not so sure as of yet. I am Airborne qualified and Sniper Qualified, I'm an Infantryman with 2 years experiance so far, will have just over three after I discharge, I have a deployment to Iraq with another on the way. Should make my E-5 (SGT) before I get out aswell, E-4 (SPC) at the moment though.
> 
> Basiclly, my questions are:
> As an American, what do I have to do to Enlist?



Meet the current guidelines wrt to age, citizenship, education.  Details of which can be found in numerous locations on this site and at the official recruiting site.  If you meet the basics you go to your local CFRC and fill out the paperwork.



> What are my options with my Current Qualifications?



You get your options when you write the CFAT which is similar to the ASVAB.  



> What Active Units would I be able to join?



If you are referring to infantry, then you can list your preferences, but the CF will send you to where you are needed.



> At what rank would I enlist as?



Private Basic.



> This is a dumb question, but are american decorations allowed/authorized to be worn on a Canadian Forces uniform?



For the most part no, the only exceptions I can think of are the ranger and special forces tabs.  Foreign medals are sometimes authorized (ie like the PPCLI snipers), but this is done on a case by case basis.


----------



## medaid

RCL,

    Basically just what Hatchet Man has said. In order to join the CF you must first be a Canadian Citizen. Not many waivers are granted these days to this rule. In fact I have known many extremely qualified personnel told to come back after receiving their citizenship. 
  
     All I can say is best of luck with your current enlistment. Stay safe and come back in one piece and ticking. We're always looking for people, and when you've gotten your citizen and applied, I'm sure you'll make a wonderful addition to the team.


Cheers,

MT.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

MedTech said:
			
		

> RCL,
> 
> Basically just what Hatchet Man has said. In order to join the CF you must first be a Canadian Citizen. Not many waivers are granted these days to this rule. In fact I have known many extremely qualified personnel told to come back after receiving their citizenship.
> 
> All I can say is best of luck with your current enlistment. Stay safe and come back in one piece and ticking. We're always looking for people, and when you've gotten your citizen and applied, I'm sure you'll make a wonderful addition to the team.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> MT.



We just finished enrolling a PRes Chaplain, Jewish who is American and only a permanent resident. She had oodles of exp. in the US Navy so it's not impossible. I would imagine her special qualifications played a part in that.

Maybe RCL is interested in Reserve as opposed to Reg Force? In that case he could pick an infantry regiment in whatever city he settles in...provided there was one there.


----------



## medaid

IN HOC,  I said not many waivers, but it isn't impossible either as you've said. It's funny how it works sometimes, it also has to do with who goes to bat for you at CFRG.


----------



## PMedMoe

I'm also sure it makes a difference if one is applying for a trade that is severely undermanned.


----------



## geo

Most reserve trades are not undermaned... esp Combat arm trades


----------



## Osotogari

> Most reserve trades are not undermaned... esp Combat arm trades



In order to keep this civilized, I'll just say that this statement is misinformed.  

Once you step back from the spreadsheets the overall picture of combat arms is somewhat different.  There are significant numbers of people in the combat arms who just can't or won't be deployed because of medical issues and/or because they're working in a school or range control type of environment.  If they weren't short handed, battle groups going overseas wouldn't require augmentation.  The reserve force in Canada has really come through in this regard to the point that manning problems aren't so apparent to outside scrutiny, but sooner or later the temp agency kleenex box that the reserve force is turning into will run its course, just like many of those in the regular force.  As an NCO in an Alberta reserve unit, we've got as many or more people through our doors through reg to reserve component transfer than we have from the recruiting system, which shows the burnout on one side and the hurdles on the other     

The worst thing the system ever did was to close recruitment off to landed immigrants.  Such people were an excellent source of cutural information, perspective, and experience and given the shortfalls in diversity that is so evident by our recruiting literature, somewhat counterproductive as well.


----------



## Blackadder1916

RCL said:
			
		

> This is a dumb question, but are american decorations allowed/authorized to be worn on a Canadian Forces uniform?



The following is quoted from A-AD-200-000/AG-000 The Honours, Flags and Heritage Structure of the Canadian Forces

Chapter 2 (emphasis/comments added)


> 34.* A member who was awarded an order, decoration or medal by a foreign power prior to enrolment may be granted approval to wear the insignia and ribbon while in uniform*. To obtain approval the member shall submit a written request to the member's commanding officer (CO), accompanied by documentary proof of the award. The CO shall forward the request with the original or photocopy of the documentary proof, through normal channels, to NDHQ/DHH.
> 
> 35. If a member is granted authority to wear a foreign award, a copy of the authority shall be filed on the Unit Personnel Record and the NDHQ personal document file.



That being said, other criteria may apply.  Generally approval would probably be given only for those decorations and medals that would normally be approved if they were awarded to a Canadian citizen by a foreign power.



> FOREIGN HONOURS TO CANADIANS
> 
> 21. Canadian policy requires Government approval before an order, decoration or medal can be awarded to one of its citizens. Otherwise, Canada will not recognize the honour, and it cannot be worn with national honours or on a CF uniform.
> 
> 22. The policy has been described to all missions accredited to Canada (Foreign Affairs Circular Note No.XDC-0675, 4 February 1988), and is reprinted in Figure 2-1-1. *(see attachment below)*
> 
> 23. Although the policy requires approval before an award, requests after the fact which explain the presentation circumstances may be considered.
> 
> 24. *Since the Sovereign is the fount of all Canadian honours, foreign honours must emanate from a similar level, a head of state or government, to be recognized. Awards originated by some other or lower authority are regarded as private honours.* These can be accepted as private mementos only. Except for courtesy reasons at the moment of presentation, they cannot be worn with national honours or on a CF uniform.  *(this may preclude US commendation and achievement medals as they are awarded in the name of the service secretary)*
> 
> 25. Canada will only approve honours which recognize meritorious activity. Canada does not engage in exchanges of honours, nor give or receive honours based solely on an individual's status.
> 
> 26. Canadian protocol differentiates between orders and decorations (which recognize individual meritorious activity), and campaign and service medals (which recognize honourable participation in some group activity).
> 
> 27. Canada does not approve foreign orders and decorations for the normal performance of paid government duty. Thus, requests to award foreign honours to public employees, military or civilian, must explain why the activity to be recognized was outside the paid duties or beyond the norm expected of the individual's rank and experience. Each such request is assessed individually.
> 
> 28. For campaign and service medals, a request is assessed on a group basis for all who qualify for the honour. If the request is approved, the decision will guide future requests for the medal.
> 
> 29. Nothing in this policy applies to foreign honours properly presented to a country's own citizens. However, after immigration, a Canadian citizen can only wear foreign honours in accordance with Canadian protocol, eg, the honours must emanate from a head of state or government.



A few decades ago I was acquainted with an individual who joined the CF after having previous service in the US military (including Vietnam service).  IIRC, of the several medals and devices he received for his US service he was permitted to wear only one (maybe two) with CF uniform.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

I've known at least 3 Padres who were allowed to wear US medals and several who were allowed to wear British or Commonwealth medals. Two of the Padres had significant decorations they had won in Vietnam and the Brit medals included the one given for Northern Ireland and the Silver and Golden Jubilee medals.....of course the UN ones are the same so they got to wear those e.g. Cyprus UNFICYP .


----------



## Navy_Blue

I'm over in the UK in HMS Sultan doing some coursing related to the Vic's.  Every night up in the mess the RN guys are at me about what its like in Canada and how much they would love to join our Navy.   They are all as equally trained if not more trained than our MAR ENG.  As "Tiffers"  They get a degree.  They get accelerated to Chief here too.  But almost everyone I have spoke to here is chomping at the bit to get out of this country.  

If they were able to jump the hoops and get into our country would our Armed Forces give them credit for there training and experience.  I'm not talking Ordinary Seaman here these guys are PO's and Chiefs with allot of time in Boats and Ships.   

Just wondering if any of you have any experience dealing with this sort of thing??


----------



## Navy_Blue

That is what I told them too.  "The Aussies would love to have you".  They seem pretty keen on us tho.  Seems a shame to pass up some very qualified people but I have a feeling our Immigration system would be the first hurdle.  Its to bad we couldn't allow citizens of the UK Canadian citizenship after a years service.  

Thanks for the reply guys.


----------



## geo

Blue,
Not saying it's impossible.  It'll be a question of if there is a pressing need in the trades.  Only inquiring thru Canada House (The Embassy) and possibly thru CFRC or the Sea branch....

Ask and ye shall find... don't ask and ye get - NOTHING

Good luck to you & them!

CHIMO!


----------



## CFR FCS

Blue, 
There actually is a provision in the regulations for recruiting non Canadians if they have a speciality that is in critical supply. I will Pm you with a contact in NDHQ.


----------



## daftandbarmy

Getting equivalencies recognized can be a long and torturous process. It only took me something like 15 years to have one of my UK staff courses recognized here. I personally know two army (commando forces) officers who transferred to the CF and then had to drop a rank, and then stay there for twice as long as they would have in the UK due to no Major's positions being availble in the CF.

There be dragons.


----------



## 1feral1

geo said:
			
		

> ... they might think of going to Australia.... Oz is a bit more agressive about getting their hands on trained personnel



Very much mate. Citizenship granted in 90 days upon arrival. Thats a carrot dangler for sure. Dual nationality guaranteed.

We have had at least 5 foreigners in my Regt in two years, including one Cdn, the rest poms. From CPL to CAPT to MAJ.

If you're serious and looking for a new life (that it is) www.defencejobs.gov.au 


Wes


----------



## adubois

I accidentally posted this question in the wrong forum I think.

How often are citizenship waivers granted to permanent residents and in what jobs are they most commonly approved in? The online application for the Canadian Army stated that it was possible to obtain a citizenship waiver in certain circumstances.


----------



## aussiechangover

from my own personnal experience I tried a citizenship waver and was not successful even though I came from a commonwealth country with previous military experience. Keeping this in mind that I also was due to take the citizenship exam after harassing the recruiting center for close to 3 years for them to take me early and driving to Ottawa on many occasions to get a 2nd opinion.


----------



## Jack Nastyface

adubois said:
			
		

> I accidentally posted this question in the wrong forum I think.
> 
> How often are citizenship waivers granted to permanent residents and in what jobs are they most commonly approved in? The online application for the Canadian Army stated that it was possible to obtain a citizenship waiver in certain circumstances.


If you have a medical degree that is recognized in Canada, then you might stand a chance. If the CF has a trade or an occupation that is in distress (i.e. grossly undermanned) and you have the right quals, then you may get the magic citizenship waiver. I have never seen this happen, though.


----------



## tankie

I left Niagara Falls in the summer of '88 to join the British Army, whislt my school buddy joined 1CER (Clunk) and that was the hardest thing i ever had to do.  I think about leaving this and re-joining a Tank unit back home. 

The question of infrastructure is irrelevant.  One of my jobs was Training Sgt at ATR Winchester, all walks of life come through, and regardless of colour of skin, religion or geographic locations...my work suit is the same colour as the recurits...DPM.  

I beleive that the system is flexible enough to accomodate all language/learning barriers.  I would (and have) called on a sniper team and heard a South African accent, and knew what target i sent was getting tagged.  Equally, if a fight broke out in a pub and a Fijiian that i trained was there i could put my back to him and trust him.


----------



## geo

Hey Tankie,
Not sure about what you are getting at but, there are plenty of Cdn expats who have served in the UK and US military - that have chosen to return and serve in the Canadian military.
Is enrolling in the CF from a foreign (but friendly) military will not be 100% easy but, from those who chat on this site, it's not too complicated and entirely satisfying.

CHIMO!


----------



## aussiechangover

geo said:
			
		

> Hey Tankie,
> Not sure about what you are getting at but, there are plenty of Cdn expats who have served in the UK and US military - that have chosen to return and serve in the Canadian military.
> Is enrolling in the CF from a foreign (but friendly) military will not be 100% easy but, from those who chat on this site, it's not too complicated and entirely satisfying.
> 
> CHIMO!



it's surprisingly more difficult than what I imagined thats for sure my biggest problem from changing over from the Australian Navywas I had though commonwealth country, ha this will be easy wasn't I in for a surprise. all i can say is stick it out it's worth it in the end


----------



## rangerblood

I want to join your army, can you do that with a dual citizenship. I am from the us. As we can all see. :threat:


----------



## oligarch

I have dual citizenship and I'm here. So unless either I or someone in recruitment messed up, you should be fine. You'll likely have to do a security check if you've lived outside the country for a while, but I'm not sure about that in your case because you are from the states. To the best of my knowledge, the requirement is that you are a Canadian citizen, not that you are ONLY a Canadian citizen. 

I don't think anyone will make an issue out of this if you don't.

Good luck!


----------



## kincanucks

rangerblood said:
			
		

> I want to join your army, can you do that with a dual citizenship. I am from the us. As we can all see. :threat:



No I can see that you are from us not the USA and for future reference it is Canada not canada.

HH and DA


----------



## Redeye

Dual citizenship is no problem.  I'm a citizen of three countries and it was no issue when I joined.  It is a question on security clearance documents, just requires an explanation but it is by no means a showstopper.


----------



## brisitshsoldier

Hi All

I am an ex soldier of the british army with 8 years service under my belt and would very much like to join the Canadian Forces.

Is there any way this can happen i dont expect to keep rank or to skip basic training.

Regards

BritishSoldier


----------



## Molyno

I, of course, am not an expert in the area... But, I would assume that if you meet all the criteria for enrollment in the CF there would be no issues.

1.) Be a Canadian Citizen (if your not, you have a few steps to take with Immigration Canada)

2.) Minimum Grade 10 level of education. (you will need to contact a Board of Education to translate your British credentials)

There are a few more, but after these steps, you would then be in for a little wait, considering your involvement in a military force from another country, for security reasons. Like anything else having to do with Recruitment, best to go see the nice staff at a CFRC.

My two cents.


----------



## noneck

Is this for the Regs or for the PRes? We currently have several ex UK Forces lads in my regiment with two others in the waiting to get in.

The hurdles are getting your quals recognized by DAT, you will need all of your annual assessments, course reports and testimonial if you recieved one. It wouldn't hurt if your UK service was recent and you had a UK point of contact (Bn Comd or OC) that could be reached to verify your service via a letter.

Be prepared to be lowballed initially and then your Cdn unit will have to fight to have your quals reviewed. 

Examples-
 Soldier A- Regular UK inf - Pl Sgt, Afghanistan, Iraq and Northern Ireland service. 
 He was initially told that he may be lucky if he was granted a Sgt, qual in the PRes * WTF! This man is qualified to Pl WO and beyond in our system.

 Soldier B- TA Inf Colour Sgt- Recce , FAC qualified.
 Presently serving Sgt acting lacking 3A (Small Arms course) complete bullshit offer. This soldier single handidly kept our training running over the past few months.

So be prepared.

Noneck


----------



## AmmoTech90

If you're not in Canada as a Landed Immigrant/Citizen the process will take considerably longer as you need that first.
Depending on what job you want to go into you may also be able to speed up the immigration process.  Best bet is to contact the Canadian Defence Liaison Staff in London and inquiries can be made as to whether you are in a need trade that could be fast tracked.
This is not a set in stone process, unfortunately it varies between personalities and trades involved.


----------



## ComdCFRG

Better yet, use the www.forces.ca site and go to the chat.  You can explain your case to the recruiter online and they can give you the advice you need.


----------



## geo

britishsoldier,
there are several formerr members of the Brit army here on the forum whom you should get in contact with - as they are the most current with what hoops they had to jump through

Might I recommend "towards the gap" a Sapper with the Royal Engineers, he's currently serving with 2CER.
Look him up on the members list and send him a Personnal message... am certain that he can bring you up to speed.

Good luck

CHIMO!


----------



## daftandbarmy

noneck said:
			
		

> Is this for the Regs or for the PRes? We currently have several ex UK Forces lads in my regiment with two others in the waiting to get in.
> 
> The hurdles are getting your quals recognized by DAT, you will need all of your annual assessments, course reports and testimonial if you recieved one. It wouldn't hurt if your UK service was recent and you had a UK point of contact (Bn Comd or OC) that could be reached to verify your service via a letter.
> 
> Be prepared to be lowballed initially and then your Cdn unit will have to fight to have your quals reviewed.
> 
> Examples-
> Soldier A- Regular UK inf - Pl Sgt, Afghanistan, Iraq and Northern Ireland service.
> He was initially told that he may be lucky if he was granted a Sgt, qual in the PRes * WTF! This man is qualified to Pl WO and beyond in our system.
> 
> Soldier B- TA Inf Colour Sgt- Recce , FAC qualified.
> Presently serving Sgt acting lacking 3A (Small Arms course) complete bullshit offer. This soldier single handidly kept our training running over the past few months.
> 
> So be prepared.
> 
> Noneck



Noneck is right. I was 8 years in the British Army and it's taken me almost 15 years to get approval for some of my equivalencies in Canada. 

Make sure you get a full statement of army service (Form B6987) from MoD, dig out all your course reports and course photos, and write away to previous commanders and ask for a letter of reference. It helps if you provide them with a short narrative of what you did when you worked for them, and what equivalencies in general you want them to comment on e.g., 'Sgt Bloggins was a fully trained and very experienced section commander'.

Note that there are some things you have done in the UK that have no relevant equivalency in Canada (apart from the time in nick of course!), so don't be disappointed if they come back at you with no relevant qualification. The important ones, of course, are the career progression oriented qualifications, so make sure that you get those right at a minimum.

Once you've been granted any equivalencies, as with any good 'lost comms' procedure, keep trying. Policies change over time and, as I discovered, if you keep asking the question through formal channels, the answer might change. Gawd I love bureaucracies. 

Good luck Mr. Bond!

D&B


----------



## aussiechangover

i hope that it goes alot smoother for you than what it did for me transfering from the Australian Navy. There are alot of hurdles but so far it`s been worth it. i`m still complaining so i guess i`m happy


----------



## starseed

Pieman said:
			
		

> Hi RyanNS,
> 
> For the UK Army, you have to keep in mind the age limit for NCM is 27 years 11 months. Do you have a millitary background already? If not, you will be too old by the time you do your time in the CF.


The Royal Marines will take you until 33, fyi


> While in the CF, I believe it is possible to go on soldier exchanges with other armies. Something to look into.
> 
> Pieman


Indeed, at least as an Officer. My Godfather, a current serving Colonel in the CF spent a large part of his career on exchange with the British army and absolutely loved it.


----------



## British Army

Greetings my Canadian friends  

Here's the scenario - I leave the British Army, Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers (REME) in May 2011 after 22 years, by which time I will be 40 yrs old. My family and I wish to emigrate to your fine country. We spent a year in Alberta stationed at CFB Suffield and had a great time.  Based on the information below; what do you think my chances of enlisting are and what would be the best way to go about proceeding:

*Rank*: Warrant Officer Class 1, Artificer Sergeant Major (ASM) - this is our highest non-commissioned rank which I think equates to your Chief Warrant Officer?

*Trade*: I enlisted and qualified as a Vehicle Mechanic (VM) subsequently working on a variety of wheeled and tracked vehicles; I was then selected for fast-tracking through our Artificer stream - I think this equates to a Vehicle Technician who has completed the Advanced MOC Training at the Supervisor and Manager level, however, our Artificer Course is 18-months long.

*Qualifications*: I have Secondary School GCEs and a BTEC Higher National Diploma (HND) in Mechanical Engineering - this equates to Grade 12 and a Canadian three-year post-secondary diploma, according to IQAS.

*Military Record*: Classified as 'Exemplary;' - I have the Long Service & Good Conduct medal (which means I never got caught).  

*Medical*: Classified as FE which means I am fully fit, pass all fitness tests and am deployable worldwide.

*Experience*: Extensive - I have worked hands-on as a Mechanic, commanded a 16 man section on operations, been a Workshop Sergeant Major and worked in Defence Procurement & Support etc.  I have served in the UK, Germany, Northern Ireland, Norway, Turkey, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Canada.  

At this stage I would appreciate any feedback, advice or contact details you can provide - if anyone knows an ex-Brit who has enlisted it would be particularly useful.

Many thanks  

Pete


----------



## geo

Ummm.... there are a couple of former UK military types that hang around here....
one, "Towards the gap" was a Cpl in the Royal Engineers & is now serving in one of our Combat Engineer Regiments - then again, I believe he was an Expat coming home.  Will see if I can give him a shake & get him to join this thread.

Cheers!


----------



## daftandbarmy

British Army said:
			
		

> I must apologise :-[, as you can see I am new to this.
> 
> Thanks for the steer



'ello mate,

Here's a couple of locations on this site for good gen:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17703/post-789428.html#msg789428
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/18494.0/topicseen.html

Make sure you keep copies of all your course reports, course photos and PERs, and also ask for letters of reference from previous COs/ Supervisors that explain what type of job you did for them, in layman's terms. I found that the CF has few direct equivalencies for many British courses and qualifications.

Also be prepared to be offered a position at lower than your current rank.  Depending on how desperate you are to leave Blighty, I'd take it then put in for equivalencies once you're here. Bring your stiff upper lip, you may need it.


----------



## 1feral1

Pete,

You can always do a lateral to here, we take Poms all the time, and its warm here  :nod:

Try www.defencejobs.com.au

Regards,

OWDU


----------



## Kiwi

G'day all,

Just thought I'd have an ask around to see if anyone here might be able to shed a little light on my situation.

I've served as a medic in the New Zealand Army for the last 2 1/2 years.  At the moment I'm looking at joining the CF and becoming a SARTech, mainly because I want to make a career of SAR and emergency medicine and the opportunities just aren't available over here.

In early April I finish with the Army - from there I'll be heading over to Canada for a year to work and travel.  This will be a good opportunity to see if I want to move there (I dont think it will be a hard decision; all my mates who've been over have said Canada is an amazing country) and to get in touch with recruiters and the immigration department.

From searching these forums and the internet it seems the process would go something like this:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Spend 2 years in Canada travelling
[*]Apply for Permanent Residency
[*]Reside in Canada for three years
[*]Apply for Citizenship
[*]Apply to join CF as a relevant trade (most likely medic or firefighter)
[*]Complete min 4 years service and attain rank of Cpl
[*]Apply for SARTech trade
[/list]

All up it looks to take around 10 years, a long time but ultimately worthwhile.  In the meantime I'd have hopefully become a qualified paramedic or firefighter and have some experience working as a volunteer for a local civvy SAR organisation.

If there's any advice from those in the know or any Kiwis out there who've gone through the immigration and enlistment process I'd be eternally grateful for your help.

Cheers,

-Kiwi


----------



## medaid

Kiwi one major problem with your plan is this:

You can't apply for PR status unless you are a landed immigrant, in order to be a landed immigrant you must first be deemed eligible for immigration by the CIC.
There's a whole criterium you must follow...

So your two year travel Canada plan won't work.


----------



## Kiwi

MedTech said:
			
		

> You can't apply for PR status unless you are a landed immigrant, in order to be a landed immigrant you must first be deemed eligible for immigration by the CIC.



That adds a couple more years to that estimate.  Do you know of any Kiwis that have joined?


----------



## kratz

Kiwi,

Talk to your chain of command before releasing. This forum has members of other Commonwealth countries who have transferred over to the CAF and visa versa. There are policies in place to recognize service and to accomodate you. I do not know the policies, but a good place to start is within your unit well before your release date.


----------



## Kiwi

kratz said:
			
		

> Talk to your chain of command before releasing.



Cheers, will do.  I'm not sure who would be best to talk to but I'll pass it up the CoC.  If they _can _ facilitate a transfer chances are I'll still do my 2 years travel then reinlist back in the NZ Army then swap over to the CF.


----------



## ComdCFRG

Kiwi (and others who have posted here looking for information)

Get onto our website, forces.ca, and use it to link to the 'chat with a recruiter' function at a time when they are online, or email them with your circumstances.  They can give you specific information that pertains to some of the special circumstances that apply to individuals from other countries that are interested in emigrating/immigrating (take your pick) to Canada and serving in the CF.  Suffice to say here that in many cases the various Canadian government departments work together when there is an identified Canadian requirement for a skillset held by a potential immigrant - whether for the military or a particular industry identified by a provincial government.

While in the past it had been somewhat, well quite, lengthy, we have between us all been able to speed the process considerably although it is not necessarily quick.

Good luck!


----------



## Kiwi

Hey guys - I've talked to my CoC and one of the nursing officers who has worked with the CF at Kandahar as well as sending an email to the CF recruiters.

NO: Has said that she'll try get me contacts for the MOs and other medical staff she knows so I'll send them an email explaining my situation.

CoC: Has been completely unhelpful (not surprising) as they want me to come back when I'm done travelling.  I might have a talk to some other people who dont have a vested interest in not providing help.  ;D

Here's the email from CF Recruiter I recieved after outlining the details of my position: 



> Good day,
> 
> Thank you for your interest in the Canadian Forces (CF).  Unfortunately, there is no current arrangement between our countries to facilitate a direct transfer thus you must complete the following:
> 
> Step #1
> 
> Eligibility requirements may vary for each occupation. There are, however, basic eligibility requirements common to all occupations within the CF:
> 
> To be eligible for consideration for the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following minimum conditions:
> 
> - Be a Canadian citizen or a Canadian Permanent Resident;
> 
> - Be 17 years of age (with parental/guardian consent) or older; junior level Military College applicants must be 16 years of age; you may be enrolled in the Reserves providing you are 16 years of age; and
> 
> - Meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or occupation.
> 
> If you would like more information about becoming a Permanent Resident of Canada please go to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada website:
> 
> http://www.cic.gc.ca/
> 
> Step #2
> 
> Permanent Residency aside, if you wish to join the CF we need to determine whether or not the Managing Authority of the occupation in question is interested.  In order to do this, you must email a CV (resumé) and cover letter to jobs@forces.ca (they must be sent as attachments to your email in either MS Word or pdf formats).  Your submission should clearly indicate which CF occupation you are applying for and highlight any military experience relevant to that occupation.
> 
> The CV/resume should include:
> 
> Personal Information
> - Name (in full)
> - Date and Place of Birth
> - Brief outline of where you have lived (include dates)
> - Where your immediate family is currently residing (include parent, siblings, spouse and parents-in-law)
> - Reasons for your relocation to Canada
> - Date of arrival and date you were granted Permanent Resident Status
> 
> Education
> - Name of all educational institutions attended
> - Grade/Level completed and year of completion
> - Diplomas/Degrees awarded
> - Area of specialization
> - Marks/Grade Point averages
> - Apprenticeship/Journeyman qualifications
> 
> Employment
> - List all part-time, summer or full-time employment positions you have held
> - Dates for each position
> - Brief description of duties for each position
> - Qualifications or training you have received "on-the-job"
> 
> Activities
> - List all volunteer positions you may have held
> - List all clubs/organizations/community groups you have belonged to
> 
> If there are any other points or pertinent facts you would like to include, please feel free to do so.
> 
> Step #3
> 
> Once you have submitted your CV/resume, it will be assessed by CF Recruiting Group to determine what skills you possess that may be of benefit to the CF.  When finished we will contact you via email with a decision.
> 
> SAR Tech
> 
> The CF is actively recruiting a small number of direct entry (semi skilled) candidates for the Search and Rescue Technician (SAR Tech) occupation.  SAR Techs are highly trained specialists who provide on-scene medical attention and rescue for aviators, mariners and others in distress in remote, hard to reach areas.  SAR Techs also lead ground search operations and mountain SAR missions.  They are highly trained survival experts, who generally work in teams of two and operate under all climatic and terrain conditions (land, sea and air).  SAR Tech is a non-commissioned member (NCM) occupation (there are no officer positions).  There are approximately 130 SAR Techs in the CF who are based across Canada.
> 
> To be eligible candidates must have successfully completed a Primary Care Paramedic program, must achieve an appropriate score on the CF Aptitude test and must be able to complete a rigorous physical fitness test which includes:
> 
> - 2.4 km run in 10:15 or less
> - 31 consecutive push-ups
> - 33 consecutive sit-ups
> - 8 consecutive chin-ups
> - 450 metre shuttle run
> 
> Must complete all portions of this test in 16 minutes or less.  Must also complete a 675 metre continuous swim in 20 minutes or less
> 
> SAR Tech is a physically demanding occupation.  Applicants should include physical fitness as part of their lifestyle rather than only training intensively to pass the fitness test.
> 
> SAR Tech training includes diving, parachuting, field & winter survival and mountaineering.  Experience with as many of these activities as possible would remove doubt about a candidate’s basic ability to perform these activities and would be an asset to the candidate.
> 
> Other experience which would help indicate suitability for SAR Tech training and employment:
> 
> - Scouting, Cadets, Reserve or Regular Force service
> - Outdoor clubs
> - Diving Instructor, Dive Master, Rescue Diver
> - First Aid Instructor or Attendant
> - Mountain Guide, Mountaineering Instructor
> - Survival Instructor
> - Parachuting and Rappelling experience
> 
> While there is no specific application deadline all applications must be submitted in time for complete processing prior to the selection board scheduled for September 2009.  Those selected will attend the Basic Military Qualification (BMQ) course commencing in October 2009.  Successful candidates will be posted to Comox, BC to prepare for the SAR Tech pre-selection course held in Jarvis Lake, AB in February 2010.  Those chosen to proceed to complete SAR Tech training will be notified.  Those not selected will be offered the options of reassignment to another CF occupation or release.



Overall it sounds pretty similar to the aformentioned situation.  The only thing that provided a bit of hope was the part about "The CF is actively recruiting a small number of *direct entry* (semi skilled) candidates for the Search and Rescue Technician (SAR Tech) occupation."

Cheers for your help so far chaps!


----------



## Kiwi

Done!  I've sent a PM to ComdCFRG and I'm writing up a CV now.  Chances are I wont be able to use it for a while but it saves trying to remember all the details a couple of years down the track.  

I'll hit up my Platoon Sgt, Pl Cmd, OC etc. for references as well as copies of my course reports.  In the short term I can use it to find a job in Canada when I head over in a couple of months - PHTLS trained bartender anyone?  ;D


----------



## Ambition

I currently not a citizen of Canada, I have put my application through.

I have lived in Canada for quite some time and I believe I should help out, in anyway I can.

I am also a student in computer engineering.

My question is, what is the policy for Non-Citizens who want to enroll in the forces? Should I should I wait until my citizenship application is complete? Can one join the forces i.e. the Navy on a part time basis and finish their education first, I still have about three years left to finish my program?

Thank you


----------



## Kiwi

Bit of an update - managed to get copies of most of my course reports as well as some other bits and pieces.  Also got in touch with a SARTech who said he'll have an ask around and see what sort of info he can find.  ;D


----------



## British Army

> Step 2: An electronic copy of the CV together with all supporting documents shall be forwarded under cover
> (Annex B) for review by the sponsoring Branch Advisor (BA) or Managing Authority (MA) for that particular
> occupation. If the sponsor wishes to pursue the enrolment of the applicant, a Prior Learning Assessment (PLA)
> will be conducted in order to determine whether the applicant will in fact be considered as fully qualified in the
> occupation. Once this has been completed the sponsor will notify CFRG HQ//SSO Selection in writing that the
> applicant is considered suitable.



Does anyone know what the typical flash to bang time is for the BA to conduct the PLA and notify CFRG HQ?

Thanks


----------



## ComdCFRG

> Does anyone know what the typical flash to bang time is for the BA to conduct the PLA and notify CFRG HQ?



Well, it depends on the Branch as each of the Advisors is pretty well acting in a secondary duty capacity, as is his/her Branch staff.  Much different from the British Army system where the various Corps Directors have primary responsibilities associated with their Corps (control of the school etc) and formation staff to support them.  It can be from several days to several weeks or longer if there are pressing primary duties that need to be addressed.

This is the case for a PLA of foreign experience/qualifications as much as for civilian training/education.


----------



## British Army

MKO said:
			
		

> Well, it depends on the Branch as each of the Advisors is pretty well acting in a secondary duty capacity, as is his/her Branch staff.  Much different from the British Army system where the various Corps Directors have primary responsibilities associated with their Corps (control of the school etc) and formation staff to support them.  It can be from several days to several weeks or longer if there are pressing primary duties that need to be addressed.
> 
> This is the case for a PLA of foreign experience/qualifications as much as for civilian training/education.



Colonel

Thank you for the unexpected reply; I read that you had handed over to Commodore MacKeigan (1 May) so I am surprised to see you here.

My follow up paperwork only went in a couple of weeks ago so I guess it's 'wait out' for now - I appreciate the BAs are multitasking. As this represents not only a new career, but also a whole new life, I am somewhat on tenterhooks with anticipation. The wait (however long it maybe) will be worth it though if I am fortunate enough to be offered a place, hopefully my application will catch Colonel Myers on a good day.

I wish you good luck in your future appointment, whatever it may be.

B_A


----------



## Ballistics

I asked RC if I can obtain equivalence for my 12 years foreign military experience. They said he is not possible any recognition. Could you tell if I can get an partial equivalence? I passed all CF exams and presently I am in expecting an offer.
Thank you,


----------



## Michael OLeary

Ballistics said:
			
		

> I asked RC if I can obtain equivalence for my 12 years foreign military experience. They said he is not possible any recognition. Could you tell if I can get an partial equivalence? I passed all CF exams and presently I am in expecting an offer.
> Thank you,



What would you expect to get equivalencies on?  Who should have examined each of your courses in a foreign military to determine if there is even an overlap in skill requirements for Canadian qualifications?


----------



## Ballistics

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> What would you expect to get equivalencies on?  Who should have examined each of your courses in a foreign military to determine if there is even an overlap in skill requirements for Canadian qualifications?



Because I will change my speciality, I didn’t expect a full equivalence. But I think a partial equivalence might be possible: training recruits (!??), military grade, years of military experiences (pay increments), some courses maybe, etc... I studied in munitions and missiles and I worked in technical field (ammunitions engineer) for a NATO country.


----------



## daftandbarmy

Ballistics said:
			
		

> Because I will change my speciality, I didn’t expect a full equivalence. But I think a partial equivalence might be possible: training recruits (!??), military grade, years of military experiences (pay increments), some courses maybe, etc... I studied in munitions and missiles and I worked in technical field (ammunitions engineer) for a NATO country.



Which country, when? How long? What rank? What weapons systems? Are you a Canadian citizen? 

Geez, I'm a nosey hoser, eh?


----------



## Ballistics

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Which country, when? How long? What rank? What weapons systems? Are you a Canadian citizen?
> 
> Geez, I'm a nosey hoser, eh?



I worked in the Romanian Forces from 1989 to 2001. I was lieutenant. I worked in maintenance and repairs field - engineer officer for ground systems and ammunition. Yes, I'm Canadian citizen. Currently I am expecting an CF offer for my enrolment.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Ballistics- You should look into getting any technical qualifications recognised by a Canadian institution, this may cost some money but will make it easier for the CF to assess your skills and training. Also you should be prepared to submit your ENTIRE service history (assessments, reports, course reports, certificates, any discharge paperwork) to the RC. If the Romanian Army did not provide you with any of this and you did not keep copies, unfortunately you are SOL.

Just a note to others in the same situation as Ballistics:

NATO does not necessarily guarantee the same standards, doctrine, or TTP's between all member countries. Therefore finding equivalencies may not be as easy as one may think. 

It is generally easiest to transfer between ABCA (Australia/NZ, Britain, Canada, America)countries, due to the commonality of doctrine, tactics and culture. Also, foreign ABCA training is easier to compare to CF qualifications for relevancy. The process for finding out if such equivalencies exist is known as PLAR (Prior Learning Assessment Review), where an applicants former service is assessed by Director Army Training, and equivalencies outlined in the offical offer.


That being said, should one find themselves joining, with previous military experience, but no equivalencies granted, if you are truly keen on serving in the CF, take it on the chin, knuckledown, and once in the field army/air force/navy, your experience and different skill set will allow you to bring something more to the table, and provided you aren't crap, your career ''should'' be adjusted accordingly. Transferring from the British Army, I took it as worst case having to do BMQ/SQ/QL3/5/PLQ over again, and should that have been the case, taken it with a slice of humble pie and treated as a nice refresher course! Luckily that wasn't the case in the end.


----------



## Ballistics

Thanks for your advice. Your answers are very relevant.
I did my equivalence studies by a Canadian institution and it helped me for my FC enrolment. That is why right now I’m in the final step to complete my enrolment selection process.

I didn’t knew about PLAR process. I will request more information once I'll receive the enrolment offer and I will finish my BOTC. I hope I will be an AERE or NCS ENG and have a new way in my military life.


----------



## daftandbarmy

Ballistics said:
			
		

> Thanks for your advice. Your answers are very relevant.
> I did my equivalence studies by a Canadian institution and it helped me for my FC enrolment. That is why right now I’m in the final step to complete my enrolment selection process.
> 
> I didn’t knew about PLAR process. I will request more information once I'll receive the enrolment offer and I will finish my BOTC. I hope I will be an AERE or NCS ENG and have a new way in my military life.



Suggestion: If you can, get a letter of reference from each of your previous supervisors explaining what you did, and how well you did it, in 'plain speak'. It helps clear lanes through the usual military acronym mine field.


----------



## British Army

MKO said:
			
		

> Well, it depends on the Branch as each of the Advisors is pretty well acting in a secondary duty capacity, as is his/her Branch staff.  Much different from the British Army system where the various Corps Directors have primary responsibilities associated with their Corps (control of the school etc) and formation staff to support them.  It can be from several days to several weeks or longer if there are pressing primary duties that need to be addressed.
> 
> This is the case for a PLA of foreign experience/qualifications as much as for civilian training/education.



A quick update for those who are interested; my PLA is now complete and I had a phone call from my recruiter today giving me the thumbs up  .  I submitted my original application on 14 March, so it's only taken about 31/2 months to get the answer back, which was a lot quicker than I was expecting.

Time to trawl the net and research Cold Lake, Borden and Wainwright to see which is going to be the best bet.  ???


----------



## macknightcr

I have recently applied to the ROTP Program at RMC, and am taking the road to be an officer in the CF.  My Fiance from America is looking to join with me.  She is already a college grad and I am wondering how long it will take for her to become a citizen so she can be an officer aswell.  And if you know what process I need to go through to make this happen?


----------



## ModlrMike

I think you'll find your answers here:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become-eligibility.asp



I don't think there's a fast track for those who wish to join the CF.


Google search time: 0.19 seconds.


----------



## George Wallace

macknightcr said:
			
		

> I have recently applied to the ROTP Program at RMC, and am taking the road to be an officer in the CF.  My Fiance from America is looking to join with me.  She is already a college grad and I am wondering how long it will take for her to become a citizen so she can be an officer aswell.  And if you know what process I need to go through to make this happen?



She does not meet one of the three criteria to join:


- Be a Canadian citizen.  Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when a Canadian citizen cannot fill the position, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced; 

- Be 17 years of age (with parental/guardian consent) or older; junior level Military College applicants must be 16 years of age; you may be enrolled in the Reserves providing you are 16 years of age; and

- Meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or 
occupation. 


The only exception:

a. Applicants who are not Canadian citizens, but do hold Permanent Resident Status  (NO LONGER accepted); and

b. Possess specialized skills/qualifications the CF has need of and cannot fill with a Canadian citizen; and

c. Do not pose a risk to any national interest; may only be enrolled into the CF if permission is granted by the Commander of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group (CFRG).

If one does not currently hold Canadian citizenship, but have Permanent Resident status in Canada you will have to be granted a Citizenship Waiver by the Commander CFRG prior to starting any of the selection testing. In order to do this, you must provide a curriculum vitae (CV) or resumé to CFRG HQ. I believe that the format is available at: http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/resources/noncanadians_en.aspx?bhcp=1






[NOTE TO MODS:   This info was once easily accessible, but is no longer easy to find, due to it being merged into one large mega thread.]


----------



## macknightcr

Thanks for everything.  Just out of curiosity, because I have lived in America most of my life I don't know, what kind of life would we live in Canada with me being an officer?  Would it be more beneficial to stay in America, get married, and enlist here while she goes in as an officer?  I really want to move to Canada and serve my country, but I also want what is best for my family.


----------



## agenteagle

macknightcr said:
			
		

> Thanks for everything.  Just out of curiosity, because I have lived in America most of my life I don't know, what kind of life would we live in Canada with me being an officer?  Would it be more beneficial to stay in America, get married, and enlist here while she goes in as an officer?  I really want to move to Canada and serve my country, but I also want what is best for my family.



To answer your question about if your life would be better in Canada or America depends on a number of factors and what your goals are. I am heading to BMQ July 6th and my wife and 2 young children will be staying in Kentucky until I get posted somewhere. After my wife and I where married we moved to Louisville because we could have a better life in Kentucky as a married couple expecting their first child then living in Toronto. Toronto is expensive and Louisville is one of the cheapest cost of living for a major city in North America. That being said living in both places myself I am confident my family will be better off back in Canada and me doing what I have dreamed of doing for a long time(serving my country)

Canada has a higher standard of living and the adjustment is easy. Make sure both partners are willing for the change and if so go for it. I may be bias because as Molson say's I am Canadian but my American wife feels the same way too. Also I humored my in laws and looked into the US Army and I will tell your your life will be much better in the CF the US Army on a number of fronts family wise.


----------



## aesop081

agenteagle said:
			
		

> and I will tell your your life will be much better in the CF the US Army on a number of fronts family wise.



While you are entitled to have your opinion, please allow me to give you mine, based on my time working in a US Army unit and all my time working alongside US forces.

Free on-base housing, economic allowance for members living off-base, an exchange system that offers not only tax-free shopping for members and their families but , in alot of cases, beats downtown prices are things that make life better for military families. You will not find those things in the CF.

Ever been posted to a CF base in a remote location and needed , oh lets say, a pediatrician for your child ? Well when i was working in Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, there were no such doctors in the nearby town. Guess what, the base hospital had at least one of most medical specialist that a family needed. Take one guess at how much support a CF military family in a remote location gets from a CF medical facility.

While i'm not prepared to say that life for a US military family is better that that of a CF family, i wouldnt say that "your life will be much better in the CF the US Army on a number of fronts family wise ".


----------



## Kiwi

G'day chaps,

Been a while but here's where everything is at.  I'm now traveling in Canada (living in Kelowna for the summer) and making inquiries with one of the SAR guys.  Still looking at moving here and being a firefighter for a few years until I am eligible to enlist.


----------



## agenteagle

While i'm not prepared to say that life for a US military family is better that that of a CF family, i wouldnt say that "your life will be much better in the CF the US Army on a number of fronts family wise ".


[/quote]".

Yes CDN Aviator you are correct that it depends on many factors but in the US the members have insurance that is only excepted in certain places. I read an article a couple of months ago that I can't locate again talking about a military wife complaining that the closes place for her to deliver a baby was 1.5 hours drive when there was another hospital located only 20 minutes away but didn't take the military insurance. This is not the norm but does happen.

I guess for me being a Canadian citizen but US green card holder the thought of 18 month deployments was not good with family in mind. How about in the last 4 years my friend has missed both his childrens births and has been with his wife for 12 months.
CF 7 month tours with 12 months in between seems much better for my family. But yes this is only my personal opinion and other may see it different. Some looking into it should do the research and make the best choice for them. 

The US basic pay is half of what the CF basic pay is but the other housing, food, and other allowances equals about the same but in five years in the CF you will make more then in the US Army. But again money is only a small thing compared to other family issues.

What ever choice is made will be good because the US Army and the CF are both great career choices. Good luck with it.


----------



## Stub

Hi

I've spent some time reading this topic, as I wanted to join CF and now began to wonder. As one of these posts said: "don't waste time of the recruiters", and there where quite a few foreigners who attempted to join the army I thought it'll be better to ask here:

In short:
Came here at the age of 20, 3 days after I arrived to Canada I was granted Permanent Resident status and I can apply for citizenship in a week. I know process will take awhile (and is not 100% that I will be granted passport). 

Anyways, my question: Because I haven't been here for 10 years, nor did I came to Canada at the age of 16 (or less) do I even stand a chance to get into CF in a year or so?  

sounds like I'll just be truly wasting recruiters time and paper and that my file will just be sent for (I think its called) a background check which can take even more than 18 months and forgotten?


----------



## George Wallace

Unless you are a Canadian citizen; no.  You must, once again, be a Canadian Citizen.  Permanent Residence Status is no longer accepted.   

Even with ten years residence in Canada, a security check must be done covering your previous life in your home country.


----------



## Stub

I'm sorry, I made my question wrong. 

I understand that  I have to be a Canadian Citizen and that security check must be made on me, what I wanted to ask was more like:

after I become Canadian Citizen, is it true that I'll have to wait about 18 months or even more just for security check results alone and most likely be denied because I haven't been in Canada for 10 years neither did I come here at the age of 16 or less?


----------



## George Wallace

It may indeed take 18 months for a security check to be done.  That will depend on the cooperation of you native country.  The residency rules will apply to your attaining Canadian Citizenship and applying to join the CF.  

You can prepare now by getting all your documents in order.  You may even apply for a Criminal Records check from your home country and provide a certified copy to the CFRC.  You can also start compiling a list of all your immediate relatives, their addresses, and their employment.  You will need that for your application and enter it on your BackCheck forms.  You will also need your Birth Certificate, your Citizenship Certificate, your Drivers licence, your Social Insurance Card, and perhaps your passport.  You will need transcripts from your School and University, if any.  

All of this information will be given to you at the CFRC.


----------



## candamyr

I'm not yet a citizen, I have applied earlier this year and expect for the process to be done mid next year... would it make sense to already talk to recruiting at all? or would they not even talk to me yet? I'm asking because it may give me some valuable extra time to prepare (as in getting fitness level up) if I could already determine my options (and what they would ask of an almost 40 year old).

Any input appreciated. Thanks a bunch!


----------



## PMedMoe

Check out this thread.  Read some of the others on here (Personal Stories, etc).  (Use the Search function).  I don't think talking to the Recruiting Centre at this point will get you anywhere, except maybe to pick up some literature on the various trades.  As for the physical fitness, you can work on that without talking to anyone.


----------



## jmlz87

For a very short while we were accepting applications from Permanent Residents. As of now, that has been repealed and no longer true. At this point in time, you must have citizenship to even apply.


----------



## Loachman

This is dated information, so...

I first went to the recruiting centre in 1978, prior to applying for Canadian citizenship.

At that time, citizenship applications were taking four months, on average, to process.

When I applied for citizenship, I let them know why, and they pushed it through in two months.

Whether or not the same thing can be done today, I cannot say. I would suspect not, as bureaucracies have improved (grown much larger) since then and we now have computers to slow things down even more, but it could not hurt to both pop in to visit a recruiting centre for an info visit, and let the citizenship people know what your intent is.


----------



## Zejames

Good day fellow army...people

'Let me introduce myself, I'm a 21 year old dutch private, I serve in the 11th airmobile brigade, 12th infantery "wonju" battalion, and am in active serves for about 3 years now. 

Now this is the situation, followed by the question, my...girlfriend, for a while now, lives in Ontario, Canada, now...migrating to another country, without a decent education isnt that easiest thing ever, you need quite some saving and stuff, well...well basicly you need to have some sort of good education, wich I lack. ontop of that, I love my job, quiting it would be...would be hard for me. So here comes the question.

Is it possible to sign up for the canadian army as a forgneir. 

I think thats all for now, thanks in advance.


----------



## 155mmMoose

I believe you need citizenship. :\


----------



## JBoyd

BASIC ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS

*Be a Canadian citizen*;
-Citizens of another country who have landed immigrant (Permanent Resident) status in Canada may also be considered for enrolment when the CF has need of their skill, when the position cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen, and if the national interest would not be prejudiced. However, only under exceptional circumstances will authority be granted to enrol a citizen of another country.

Be 17 years of age (with parental/guardian consent) or older;
- junior level Military College applicants must be 16 years of age;
- you may be enrolled in the Reserves providing you are 16 years of age (with parental/guardian consent);

Meet the minimum education requirements for your entry plan and/or occupation;
-this can vary from Grade 10 (Sec III in Quebec) for combat arms occupations to a university degree for the Direct Entry Officer entry plan.


----------



## George Wallace

This topic has most of your questions, and answers:

Foreigners Joining the CF (All Components) 



Currently the criteria have changed to state that only Canadian Citizens can join, and they (new citizens) will have to have lived in Canada for ten years.


----------



## b7197

You must be a Canadian citizen. I am a permanent resident now. I went the CFRC couple weeks ago. They told me "Come back later with a citizenship card."


----------



## b7197

George,
Are you sure "they (new citizens) will have to have lived in Canada for ten years."?




Currently the criteria have changed to state that only Canadian Citizens can join, and they (new citizens) will have to have lived in Canada for ten years.
[/quote]


----------



## FDO

If your a applying for a security level 3 trade you need to be in the country for 10 years, level 2 is 7 years and level 1 is 5 years. 

As for Permanent Residents we tried that earlier this year and found it was a security nightmare. The only way we will even look at a non-citizen is if they have some kind of trade or skill we can't fill with a citizen.


----------



## MasterInstructor

FDO said:
			
		

> If your a applying for a security level 3 trade you need to be in the country for 10 years, level 2 is 7 years and level 1 is 5 years.
> 
> As for Permanent Residents we tried that earlier this year and found it was a security nightmare. The only way we will even look at a non-citizen is if they have some kind of trade or skill we can't fill with a citizen.



I just randomly came across with this. It is pretty recent so I am guessing it still does apply.

 I applied for Nav Comm on November 13 2009. My original date of entry is in July 2002 and I got citizenship in 2006. I was given Pre-Clearnce form for having a relative in Turkey.

 I think Nav Comm does require Level III and nobody told me anything about this? Should go Vancouver CFRC and remind them and apply for another trade?

Thanks


----------



## mariomike

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> I think Nav Comm does require Level III and nobody told me anything about this?



http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/34369/post-266260#msg266260


----------



## MasterInstructor

Ok It is confirmed that I would NavComm is Level III trade. 

So according to FDO I can not apply since I haven't been in Canada for the last 10 years. I did submit my application, passed my CFAT, BackCheck already contacted references. Nobody every told me I could not apply. Should I do down to the recruitment centre? 

Thanks


----------



## Kat Stevens

No, I suggest you keep monitoring this forum in the hope that someone's WAG will give you the answer you would like, instead of an accurate one.


----------



## FDO

I would suggest you go and have a talk with the RC. Ask them! There may be a reason why it's not a concern. One may be the fact that by the time your Presecure is done you may have the 10 years. It can take up to 18 months to get info from another country. SOMETIMES we do what we call "risk management" . What this means is we look at ALL the circumstances surrounding your application, weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. 

This post is not anything you can take to the Recruiting Crentre and lay on them as gospel. It is purely speculation based on my experience without looking at your file. My advice to you is talk to one of the File Managers at the Centre and ask them.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Thanks FDO. I just wanted to double check. I would not want my pre-clearance come back and be told I have to wait another X months. At the same time I did not want to go in there without making sure and sound like an idiot telling them that they might have missed something...


----------



## MasterInstructor

Just an update

I just came back from CFRC Vancouver. They said that there is no requirement for residency in any way. The only thing is depending on which countries you resided in the past 10 years and your current connection with those countries  there would be a pre-clearence and that takes 1-18 Months. I already knew that and submitted my form. I am not sure but there might be a change recently.


----------



## FDO

"I just came back from CFRC Vancouver. They said that there is no requirement for residency in any way. The only thing is depending on which countries you resided in the past 10 years and your current connection with those countries  there would be a pre-clearence and that takes 1-18 Months. I already knew that and submitted my form. I am not sure but there might be a change recently."

That's great news. Like I said there are some cuircumastance that will negate the 10 year wait. Glad to hear all worked out. Good luck with the rest of your processing and looking forward to seeing you in the fleet.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Cheers! Thanks! Everybody seems to think that Turkey should not be a that big of a problem.


----------



## FDO

Turkey is or until recently was a NATO country. There weren't any issues with Turkey until a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what happened but we got word to move Turkey over to the pre-secure side of the house. The GENERAL rule of thumb is if your from a NATO country or travelled in a NATO country or have family in a NATO country, then you SHOULDN'T have too much trouble getting cleared. 

Note the key words in this post!


----------



## MasterInstructor

Turkey has been a NATO member since day one and still is. However recent government actions might have lead to including them for pre-screening. Recently Turkish Government  starting to engage in talks/negotiation with Kurds with in the country and Kurds in Northern Iraq, which were considered terrorists for many years. Government allowed many "ex" terrorists into the country and did not charge them in exchange for intel and promise to be in probation etc. And there is also Israel issue and due to Israel; ties with US is also not very good these days. There is lots happening in Turkey and I personally do not see it going well in the future... 

Recruter showed e the email. It was dated Oct 30th and I was sitting there on Nov 14th  I got stuck by 2 weeks, oh well, its for better security and as much as I don't like it, I don't blame them...


----------



## FDO

You went back and raised a concern and the RC said it was OK. They are the ones that have all the info on you so they would know best. Bottom line is your good to go. Looks like your Navy bound if all goes well. 

Good Luck.


----------



## vonGarvin

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Turkey has been a NATO member since day one and still is.


Turkey (and Greece) joined NATO in 1952.  The alliance was formed in 1949.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Sorry, my bad. I misread it when I was looking it up...  :-[


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

> And there is also Israel issue and due to Israel; ties with US is also not very good these days.


You do know that Turkey and Israel have been allies in all but name in the past don't you? They have co-opted on several military programs. Tensions have only arisen recently due to Israeli actions in the Gaza.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Yep I know.

For the last few years AK Party has been in power. Mr. Erdogan is a very intelligent man and has very strong Islamic views. He has a lot of support from East but not so much from West. He is the one who walked off in Davos. His government is the one who did not want Israel to participate Anatolian Eagle. Anatolian Eagle not only further damaged the ties with Israel but also with US. In my opinion anyways


----------



## biggboss89

I'm currently a u.s citizen and am interested in moving to Canada and join the military forces there but i need to know the requirements. i have 3 tattoos one on the side of my neck on my right hand and on my big toe on the left side. i have a misdemeanor here for retail theft also would these disqualify me from joining?
or do i have to get waivers? i want to do infantry .


----------



## Loachman

There are several threads already that will answer your questions, and probably some that you have not thought of yet. Please look around and use the Search Function.

In short, though, you will need to be a Canadian Citizen. The conviction may or may not be a showstopper.

The poll is irrelevant.


----------



## TCBF

biggboss89 said:
			
		

> I'm currently a u.s citizen and am interested in moving to Canada and join the military forces there but i need to know the requirements. i have 3 tattoos one on the side of my neck on my right hand and on my big toe on the left side. i have a misdemeanor here for retail theft also would these disqualify me from joining?
> or do i have to get waivers? i want to do infantry .



- Most folks go the other way.  Better career options and benefits in the US. What's your story?


----------



## EddieUV777

Can a US citizen join the forces? I'm interested. I just don't know what to do or the steps to take.


----------



## armyvern

http://www.forces.ca/html/index.aspx?m=0&lang=en&sid=170&sm1=4&sm2=2&content=170&tab=0&subTab=1

From the CF Recruiting Site:



> Canadian Forces
> 
> Joining
> 
> *Q. I would like to join the Canadian Forces. What are the basic requirements?*
> 
> A. *You must meet the following minimal conditions: be a Canadian citizen (if you have a permanent resident status, you may still be considered eligible for employment under certain conditions);  * be at least 17 years of age (16 for the Reserves and Military College) with parental/guardian consent for minors; have successfully completed Grade 10 (Sec III in Quebec); some entry programs have additional academic prerequisites.
> 
> 
> *Q. Can my spouse and I enrol in the Canadian Forces? Will we work on the same base?*
> 
> A. Yes. Both spouses may be employed by the Canadian Forces and all possible efforts are made to keep spouses at the same location.
> 
> 
> *Q. Is there discrimination in the Canadian Forces?*
> 
> A. The Canadian Human Rights Act provides that every person in the workplace has a right to freedom from discrimination or harassment based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, marital status, family status, disability, pardoned conviction, and sexual orientation. The Canadian Forces go beyond these requirements by addressing other types of workplace harassment and by focusing on the prevention and prompt resolution of harassment situations. We are working very hard to ensure the many cultures that make up the Canadian workforce are represented and accommodated in the Canadian Forces. All new recruits receive cultural awareness, harassment and racism prevention training. The Canadian Forces is an equal opportunity employer. This means, that men and women may apply for every open entry-level job and receive the same pay. As well, the definition of a spouse for pension and other considerations includes common-law and same-sex partnerships.
> 
> 
> *Q. What is the difference between the Regular Force and the Reserves?*
> 
> A. Regular Force serve full-time and have a commitment to serve for a certain number of years while Reservists usually work part-time.
> 
> 
> *Q. What is the difference between an officer and a non-commissioned member?*
> 
> A. Officers provide leadership and are required to have a university degree. Non-commissioned members are technicians and operators and are trained for specific occupations.


----------



## EddieUV777

I'm not a resident


----------



## armyvern

EddieUV777 said:
			
		

> I'm not a resident



Sorry.  :-\


----------



## EddieUV777

I'm pretty far from Canada (TX) to be exact. What does one have to do to become a resident?


----------



## armyvern

EddieUV777 said:
			
		

> I'm pretty far from Canada (TX) to be exact. What does one have to do to become a resident?



Damn, this IS Canada --- thus, the easiest way would be to join the US military then desert by heading north!! Guaranteed entry to these parts!!  ;D

I AM KIDDING!!

I'll have to google-fu an answer to this question ...


----------



## EddieUV777

Hahah my original plan was to join the Army. I started reading up on the Forces and well I have major respect for Canada. I've always wanted to go.  .


----------



## armyvern

Immigrating to Canada

About being a permanent resident of Canada

And, there you have it.


----------



## FastEddy

EddieUV777 said:
			
		

> Can a US citizen join the forces? I'm interested. I just don't know what to do or the steps to take.



Why aren't you interested in joining the Country of your Birth ?

Cheers.


----------



## EddieUV777

FastEddy said:
			
		

> Why aren't you interested in joining the Country of your Birth ?
> 
> Cheers.



Well, I like the Forces and have the utmost respect for Canada and what they stand for. If I had my way, I'd simply move there. It's a very beautiful place and I could see myself living there. Also, I can see myself serving to protect the country.


----------



## British Army

RyanNS said:
			
		

> I thought ??? I may have read somthing on here before (although I can't find it now by searching) that it was possible for Canadian military members to transfer to foreign militaries (Other Commonwealth countries, Australia, U.K.). Was I just dreaming this or is this possible? Sorry if this was covered before and I missed it.



The whole issue of 'transferring' from one Commonwealth Army to another is a common misconception.  As a serving British Soldier I couldn't even transfer to my own Navy or Air Force - I would (on paper at least) have to resign from one to enlist in the other.

When I applied to join the CF the recruiter sent me a guide specific to ex-foreign military applicants; the top line reads as follows:



> Unfortunately, there is no current arrangement between our countries to facilitate a direct transfer



Almost guaranteed it's the same the other way round.


----------



## FastEddy

EddieUV777 said:
			
		

> Well, I like the Forces and have the utmost respect for Canada and what they stand for. If I had my way, I'd simply move there. It's a very beautiful place and I could see myself living there. Also, I can see myself serving to protect the country.



Are you sure your from TEXAS and why don't you have it your way ?

Its really quite simple, give up your American Citizenship, Migrate to Canada, Get on a Bus, Become a Canadian Citizen (God knows you'd be a welcome change from some of the Garbage we're letting in) Join the CF.

The only way, If you want it, DO IT.

Cheers.

P.S.  ARMYVERN posted some very useful links, read them.


----------



## 1feral1

British Army said:
			
		

> The whole issue of 'transferring' from one Commonwealth Army to another is a common misconception.  As a serving British Soldier I couldn't even transfer to my own Navy or Air Force - I would (on paper at least) have to resign from one to enlist in the other.
> 
> When I applied to join the CF the recruiter sent me a guide specific to ex-foreign military applicants; the top line reads as follows:
> 
> Almost guaranteed it's the same the other way round.



EME cousin,

Its now called a lateral transfer here in Australia. I did it (when it was referred to as a re-enlistment). We are currently accepting you POMS (and others) by the bucket load, with a promise of citizenship within a few months. I had to wait 2 yrs in the old days.

So YES transfers between BCW nations is reality. I can't speak for Canada, I've been out of that loop for over 15 yrs now, but Australia openly accepts soldiers and officers from the UK, NZ, and Canada, for sure. I and others are evidence of that.

That being said criteria must be met.

Arte et Marte,

OWDU


----------



## JeanStarTrek

Greetings 

I was wondering if you guys can help me out.  Im a American whos planning to move to Canada sometime this year.  I want to move so I can start a new life with me and my wife.  I respect Canada and the many good people who live there.  Your very tolerant and accepting of other cultures.  I would like to become a part of that.

I havent begin the process of immigration as I dont know where to start.  One site says I need a job another says I can apply for Permanent Residency to live in Canada.  Im very interested in starting this process and eventually earning the right to be a citizen.

I also became very interested in your military after watching the Basic Up series on you tube.  I would like to find out more information and possibly join to serve Canada.  

Does anyone know if this is possible?  If so how would I go about making the first step?

Can someone refer me to a recruiter who can help on such a issue.


Please email me @ JeanAllTrekkie@yahoo.com


----------



## Brasidas

JeanStarTrek said:
			
		

> I also became very interested in your military after watching the Basic Up series on you tube.  I would like to find out more information and possibly join to serve Canada.
> 
> Does anyone know if this is possible?  If so how would I go about making the first step?



Ten years ago, things were different and I knew reservists who were non-citizens. These days, it's extremely unlikely that you'd be accepted until you get your citizenship.


----------



## captloadie

My old Sqn had a UK exchange pilot who liked Canada so much that he decided to join the CF. He went back to the UK at the end of his exchange, jumped through whatever hoops were necessary, and just over a year later was back in Canada, as a CF member. He also was posted back to the same Sqn, with the same rank as when he left the RAF, and kept all his pilot quals. I would say he was probably the exception to the rule, but it just goes to show that when you try hard enough, things can be made to happen.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

The Navy gets the odd one - specifically right now VICTORIA (UPHOLDER) class submariners.


----------



## Dean22

FastEddy said:
			
		

> Why aren't you interested in joining the Country of your Birth ?
> 
> Cheers.



Some people aren't interested in a 10k a year job with training that is what you will do basically the whole time. Whereas in the Canadian Military people can be an Infantry soldier trained to parachute, drive a LAV3, manage a radio, and use the mortar.

In the U.S. military you can sign up as a guy who uses the mortar and that's pretty much it.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

JeanStarTrek I would contact the nearest Canadian Embassy or Consulate as they would be more qualified and equipped to answer your queries vice an internet forum.

Milnet.Ca Staff


----------



## Rifleman62

Dean22

Please inform us why knowledge/experience you have to back up your post.


----------



## Dean22

Rifleman62 said:
			
		

> Dean22
> 
> Please inform us why knowledge/experience you have to back up your post.



Several years talking to recruiters from both sides, research into their recruiting sites and the unofficial sites, as well as discussion with a General from Canada and a General from the U.S. The Canadian General's opinion matches my own in my post in terms of difference in the level of training in Canadian vs. US soldiers. Also, Pay scales are available to all and any willing to search for them.


----------



## Rifleman62

Then thats what you should have said in the first place rather than make a statement as if was a fact.

I have spoken personally in the last week to a couple of guys from Canada serving in the US Army. They decided to go US Army for the benefits.


----------



## 1feral1

Dean22 said:
			
		

> Some people aren't interested in a 10k a year job with training that is what you will do basically the whole time. Whereas in the Canadian Military people can be an Infantry soldier trained to parachute, drive a LAV3, manage a radio, and use the mortar.
> 
> In the U.S. military you can sign up as a guy who uses the mortar and that's pretty much it.



10k a year eh, please demonstrate more of your GMK (foreign and domestic please) for us, and provide a link to back up your claims. Talk is cheap.

You seem to think the US Forces are inferior, poorly trained, and train only and never deploy. You could NOT be more wrong.

Their pay scale is different, and their benifits are significant, much better than Australia could ever dream of, and I would imagine Canada is no better than Australia.

Go here to LEARN something. http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp


OWDU


----------



## Antoine

Sorry Dean22, I don't want to spread oil on the fire but under which plan/benefit/Scholarship/trade the soldier is joining for 10k a year, after all deductions are taken and only during basic training ?

I don't see any 10k per year when using search function at www.army.mil, neither at www.payscale.com and similar websites.


----------



## Ex_RMP

b7197 said:
			
		

> You must be a Canadian citizen. I am a permanent resident now. I went the CFRC couple weeks ago. They told me "Come back later with a citizenship card."



It looks like there was about a 3 month window in which they were accepting applicants, I would keep trying if it's something you really want.  
I was informed (incorrectly) after I applied in Apr last year that my app was to be stopped due to being a PR, and a year later I'm awaiting my MPAC after being merit listed.
The recruiting staff have a lot to deal with, sometimes it's worth getting a second opinion from another recruiter as they are continually bombarded with policy change and unfortunately you may not always get the correct answer, or more often than not the one you want too hear

Recruiting staff this isnt a cheap shot at you guys, I fully understand the procedures you work too, more of a dig at the Chain of Command which isn't always swift in  passing on info to the bbottom


----------



## FDO

Criminal records for minor offences don't usually cause a problem as long as you have finished your commitment to the courts. For example you are done your parole or any prohibitions have been lifted or fines paid.  Tattoos are usually ok as long as they are not seen when you wear your #1 uniform. That means none on your neck above the shirt collar and none on your hands. If you do have any then it will be looked at on a case by case basis. That means that either the Commanding Officer of the Recruiting Centre will make the call or they will take a digital photo of it and send it to CFRG.

Never hurts to ask or apply. If you do not qualify the RC will tell you.


----------



## British Army

Zejames said:
			
		

> Good day fellow army...people
> 
> 'Let me introduce myself, I'm a 21 year old dutch private, I serve in the 11th airmobile brigade, 12th infantery "wonju" battalion, and am in active serves for about 3 years now.
> 
> Now this is the situation, followed by the question, my...girlfriend, for a while now, lives in Ontario, Canada, now...migrating to another country, without a decent education isnt that easiest thing ever, you need quite some saving and stuff, well...well basicly you need to have some sort of good education, wich I lack. ontop of that, I love my job, quiting it would be...would be hard for me. So here comes the question.
> 
> Is it possible to sign up for the canadian army as a forgneir.
> 
> I think thats all for now, thanks in advance.



The situation may have changed recently, however, I am also serving in a foreign military and I have been offered a place.  I'm not a Canadian Citizen and I don't have Permanent Residency (PR) yet, although my immigration application is in progress.

I applied in June 2009 and about 3-months later I was given an offer of employment, and waiver of citizenship letter.  I have been told more recently though that there is now a hold on foreign mil recruiting until at least Apr 2010?


----------



## George Wallace

British Army said:
			
		

> The situation may have changed recently, ..........
> 
> ........  I have been told more recently though that there is now a hold on foreign mil recruiting until at least Apr 2010?



That would match the freeze on DOMESTIC Recruiting in most Trades.


----------



## Hunter_83

Hi there,
I am new to this forum and am considering joining the reserves for now and possibly transferring to reg force in the future.
I have dual-citizenship and served in the u.s. army for 3 years with a year in Baghdad. I joined up as an artillery man and then trained in infantry before being deployed. My question is, will my time in the u.s. army count for anything when joining the Canadian army? I know it will obviously help me out greatly as I am used to army life and have been through lots of training.
Thanks,
Matt


----------



## 1feral1

Honestly I would say no when it comes to TIR, quals etc. You'll start out from scratch.

Your experience however will come in handy for yourself.

If you came from a Commonwealth nation things would be brighter for you.

Welcome, and enjoy this site.

I was at FOB Union III, Al Tahweed, near the former Baath Party HQ in 06-07

OWDU


----------



## Hunter_83

Thanks,
I was also there in 06-07.. we moved around a lot though. Camp liberty, fob falcon, fob justice, there were a couple more but I can't remember the names at the moment.


----------



## Haggis

Hunter_83:  Chances are your that your basic generic (i.e. "boot camp") qualifications may not count.  However some others may be eligible for full or partial equivalency, provided that you join the CF in your former U.S. Army trade.

Talk to a recruiter about a Prior Learning Assessment and Review (PLAR) for your American qualifications.  Foreign applicants are assessed on a case-by-case basis by Canadian Defence Academy.


----------



## 1feral1

Hunter_83 said:
			
		

> Thanks,
> I was also there in 06-07.. we moved around a lot though. Camp liberty, fob falcon, fob justice, there were a couple more but I can't remember the names at the moment.



Hunter, my info is based on pre 1995 info, where I knew two fromer US soldiers, whose TI did not count anything towards their CF time.

Also based on a former Marine, a GWI Vet, who signed up here, and had to start from scratch also. If you can get any RPL, good on ya, and good luck!

I knew Liberty and all those areas around BIAP places quite well (TF Troy, Victory, Aussie Island at 633 etc), plus I remember Falcon's attack in early Oct 06. Al lot of pers from there ended up at Carl Hall over by us, as all their belongings and living quarters were destroyed by the enemy. That was quite a night! Justice on 05 Dec 06 too rings a bell, ha!

Cheers, and again good luck with recruitment.

OWDU


----------



## Dean22

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Honestly I would say no when it comes to TIR, quals etc. You'll start out from scratch.
> 
> Your experience however will come in handy for yourself.
> 
> If you came from a Commonwealth nation things would be brighter for you.
> 
> Welcome, and enjoy this site.
> 
> I was at FOB Union III, Al Tahweed, near the former Baath Party HQ in 06-07
> 
> OWDU



How are things different between commonwealth countries?

Is there a set of rules for military pers transference between countries like what qualifications are kept?

Or are you just saying that because "typically" citizens from other commonwealth countries are treated better then the average foreigner?


----------



## Retired AF Guy

My experience is pretty old but when I went through basic Infantry training in Wainwright in '74 we had a Vietnam vet with us and the platoon behind us had a second one. Both were treated the same as the rest of us (training, pay, etc). The only thing different was the second vet was allowed to wear some of his Vietnam medals.


----------



## Hunter_83

That's another good question I'll have to ask the recruiter.. If any of my medals can be worn on the Canadian dress uniform?

OWDU - That incident at Justice in 06 may have been while I was there. We were only at Justice for 3 months but during that time we had a few mortar attacks and one such mortar hit my room. There were 3 of us in it sleeping at the time, me and another guy only suffered minor scratches and bruises luckily but my friend who was closest to the wall hit almost lost a leg.


----------



## Danjanou

Like OWDU and RAFG my info is dated. 

Re the qualifications as Haggis said maybe something official can be worked out, see what they offer. Unofficially your experience may count for a lot. When I was a CSM in  a Toronto reserve unit I had several troops with previous foreign military experience including time on the two way range. This was when we were still allowed to recruit landed immigrants for the MO and Toronto has more than its fair share.

Knowing who they were and what they’d done even off the record was something I kept in mind for taskings and potential leadership slots and courses. 

As to the decorations at least back then it could be done. One of my troops ha 3 years in the US Army , coincidentally Arty too, including time in West Germany. He had a couple of ribbons and at his request put in the appropriate paper work up the chain to allow him to wear them on his DEUs. As this was pre FYR days and most troops had a CD and maybe a UN gong, this one hook Pte did stick out with a full row. He had a few run ins with the Base RSM at Downsview when he was on Class B there IIRC.


----------



## 1feral1

Hull.Down said:
			
		

> How are things different between commonwealth countries?
> 
> Is there a set of rules for military pers transference between countries like what qualifications are kept?
> 
> Or are you just saying that because "typically" citizens from other commonwealth countries are treated better then the average foreigner?



If you come from a BCW nation yes you can get RPL (Recognised Prior Learning), if you come from the USA, or other such republics, this may be met with a different outcome. I no of none from the USA that has got it.

I can't speak for Canada, but in Australia, its called a lateral transfer. In 1995, for me, it was classed as a re-enlistment. Australia accepts on a case by case basis former Commonwealth soldiers. (NZ, Canada, UK, etc) for certain trades with citizenship a big carrot to offer. I have seen WOs and SNCOs from the UK come right accross, drop a rank, then get it back with an appropiate period with courses. I came in at the same rank (SGT), kept my rank providing I completed leadership courses with 12 months. This was 1995 for me, and things have evolved for the better.

All my courses and quals (shy of my SLC) were recognised and approved by the then RTC at Bandiana, and now there is a cell just for foreign troops wanting to come accross located at ALTC for EME/RAEME, and other Corps, less Cbt Arms, there they would have cells within their own schools for such.

In 2006 we had a SQN OC fresh from Canada, who had been in country a matter of week, a MAJ, and a veteran of SWA and other deployments. A good asset to the RAAC, and Army. I am sure he has accellerated with Army, and all the best to him. I look at it this way, here you can be someone, and there you can be someone else.

In Australia the rank structure is different, we have PL SGTs instead of WO's and sections are lead by CPLs with LCPLs as 2I/Cs.

I see soldiers with a rack of UK gongs from the Falklands to Iraq and Afghanistan. Kind of wierd to see.

Most of the English are an absolute riot. Some WO's AWOCS'd and get their comissions to CAPT.

Hope this info helps.

For Hunter: Now WRT Justice in Dec 06, I was talking the 5th, the night Saddam was hanged as he was executed there (so we were told anyways). Happy to see you pulled thru.

Regards,

OWDU


----------



## Kies

Hello everyone. 

I've got a few questions. I would preemptively search for them,but I feel that the answers I'm seeking are a matter of opinion. So, here goes:I currently live in the US. I'm closing in on two years until highschool is over,and I plan on going in to a career in law enforcement. (Possible a K-9 unit.) I intend on keeping the job for a while,and I'm currently working both educationally and physically to get myself ready for it. I've joined the Civil Air Patrol in America(Similar to your royal Canadian air cadets),and I'm enjoying it immensely. I have family in Canada,and I plan to move to somewhere near Quebec or Ontario(I've got nothing against America,I just like Canada.) I'm still deciding right now as I still have many years to wait,but I've got a decent idea of what I want. 

My question to you is this, if I'm interested in joining the Canadian Forces (Infantry) What should I do to get ready for it? Aside from practicing for my citizenship test of course. Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## MikeL

You are not the first peron to come here and ask how they should prep for the Army/Infantry.. so what does that mean to you.. theres going to be a thread or two with lots of information.. search around for it. Also, I'm pretty sure the process to becoming a Canadian citizen is a bit more than just a test.  As for getting ready to the Military.. easy get yourself in good shape.. many threads on that here. As for how to get Canadian citizen, should be some info here, otherwise google it.


Also, in case you aren't aware of it, you don't just join the Police and become a K9 officer.. you'd have to do x amount of years as a regular officer than you will be able to try out for other things.


----------



## greentoblue

You should also be aware that you will have to have your US schooling certified to Cdn standards prior to applying to the military.  This is at your expense.  Make sure to keep multiple copies of your transcripts - which you will need anyway - for the accrediation agency.


----------



## Kies

I didn't know they certified your education,that's actually interesting. Also,next time I will try searching before posting. I don't really think I'm just going to up and "Become a police guy" in a few month either,this is a long term career choice. I'm just looking for advice on what you guys think would be the quickest and most efficient way to go about it.


----------



## MikeL

Kies said:
			
		

> I'm just looking for advice on what you guys think would be the quickest and most efficient way to go about it.



When you graduate high school join the US Army as an 11X Infantry. Be the quickest way for you to join the Army, if you come here you gotta go through immigration, and become a citizen to enlist and I don't believe that is a fast process.


----------



## linkinarmy

This is just a thought i've always had about joining the US Army. I was just wondering if anyone knows anyone that has, or how often it happens. I know that one has to be a legal immigrant to the States with permanent residence and a green card to enlist. I'm just wondering if any of you guys know anything about it.


----------



## Ex-SHAD

So you want to join the US Army:

First off, before you go running down to the recruiting station and wasting your recruiter’s time, here’s a few things that you need to know:

1)	Are you a US Citizen or a Permanent Resident of the United States (Greencard), if you’re not, then don’t even bother wasting their time.
2)	Security Clearance: You cannot be a dual national and hold a security clearance. So if you want to go Intel, MP etc. then you best be ready to drop your Canadian Citizenship, but don’t worry it’s actually not that hard, you just need to fill out a rather irritating form, and wait for the government to process it (processing times are between 8 months to a year).
3)	MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station) here you’ll take your service medical, ASVAB, and FBI screening.
4)	Ship Date: Once you finally have completed all these requirements, you’ll ship to basic, and from basic you’ll head to AIT at whichever post it’s held.

Hopefully this helps, and make sure you study for the ASVAB and have all your documents ready, when you head to MEPS.

Good Luck.


----------



## Mike Baker

If you really go through with it, there are an awful lot of people joining the US military due to the economic troubles as of late. Long wait times now, which I'm sure would be even more so for a Canadian.


----------



## batz

hello!

I am a Filipino (female) and would like to join the Canadian army, since my family is planning to migrate in Canada soon.
Is it possible for me to join the army if I had dual citizenship? and what are the other qualifications that I need 
in order to be accepted? since I'm a foreigner. 

Looking forward for the answers. Thank you and good day!


----------



## upflames

Haha nvm guys, read every page then skipped this one.
The guy below me is a wizard and posted that while my slow Internet tried to let me edit this.

Quick question, apart from the US, what country is the most "involved"? One in which you can apply for infantry without requiring citizenship or permanent residence.


----------



## Scott

The "guy below you" posted as he did because you mashed reply before reading.



			
				upflames said:
			
		

> Quick question, apart from the US, what country is the most "involved"? One in which you can apply for infantry without requiring citizenship or permanent residence.



France :nod:

I work with a couple of guys who went that route...I'll say no more to provoke or dissuade you.

Before you ask - they'll school you on French, no worries at all.


----------



## Danjanou

Their French Language imersion is unique too..... very hands on.  8)


----------



## ModlrMike

batz said:
			
		

> hello!
> 
> I am a Filipino (female) and would like to join the Canadian army, since my family is planning to migrate in Canada soon.
> Is it possible for me to join the army if I had dual citizenship? and what are the other qualifications that I need
> in order to be accepted? since I'm a foreigner.
> 
> Looking forward for the answers. Thank you and good day!



http://www.forces.ca/en/home/


----------



## daftandbarmy

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Their French Language imersion is unique too..... very hands on.  8)



Yes, they are very good with Human Rights there (as well as human lefts!).


----------



## upflames

Canadian citizen, Commonwealth country, British army allows Commonwealth citizens to join. Am I able to become infantry? Or must I acquire citizenship or live in the country for a certain amount of time?


----------



## MikeL

FYI submarines are in the Navy not Army.  For that work I would assume you need a security clearance and that requires US citizenship. Only a immediate family member(US citizen/green card holder)can sponsor you for a green card or citizenship. Grandparents are not immediate family. 

Crazy idea,  but if you wish to join the US Navy contact them. To be blunt though unless you can get a US citizenship you won't be joining them.


----------



## opp550

Since you are getting a degree, I'm guessing you would most likely want to be going officer, which you would certainly need citizenship. 

To even get a green card (for me at least) seems damn near impossible, so I would think your desired employment would be out of the question.


----------



## MKos

werger_9 said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> 
> so I am new to the forum and have a question. I am currently a 4th year nuclear engineer looking to join the US nuclear sub division, because well Canada doesn't have one. Is it possible to join the US military even if i am a Canadian citizen or do I need a green carrd? my Grandmother was born in the states and I have relatives that live their currently. How should i go about this?
> 
> thanks everyone.




Everyone here has good points. AS per what OPP550 said, It would almost save you time and headache to become a full citizen, if joining the US NAVY is really what you want to do. But I suggest you go to the Navy website, or call, or contact a recruiter. The US Navy site has a live chat like the forces.ca site had at one point ask them all your questions.

GOOD LUCK


----------



## cupper

Speaking from experience, do not plan to have full US citizenship for at least 10 years, 5 for green card application to be processed, and at least another 5 to qualify for citizenship.

However, you should consider looking at possibly joining the Royal Navy, if you are interested in serving on a nuke boat.

Not sure, but the process for joining up with the RN as a Commonwealth citizen may be established and easier than getting US citizenship.

FYI, you do not need to have citizenship to joint the US military, but you need to be in the country legally. However, as indicated, not being able to get a security clearance will severely limit your options.


----------



## mariomike

cupper said:
			
		

> However, you should consider looking at possibly joining the Royal Navy, if you are interested in serving on a nuke boat.



"iii. Only candidates holding British nationality are eligible for the Submarine Service. No nationality waivers will be considered.":
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/Careers/How-To-Join/Eligibility


----------



## Allgunzblazing

I happen to live just a few kilometers from the US border and have spoken with a recruiter from down south. In order for one to join the US military, one needs to be a Permanent Resident at the very least. Certain occupations (even enlisted ones) have a citizenship requirement. To be an officer, one needs to be a US citizen. That being said, one can join as a PR and then have the military sponsor your citizenship. Once you're got citizenship, it is possible to gain a commission through the ranks. 

http://www.army.mil/article/25610/us-government-offers-citizenship-through-military-service/

You can contact them for the most current info -

http://www.goarmy.com/talk-with-us.html


----------



## werger_9

thanks everyone for the input i think i will try to contact the navy to see if it is at all possible 

ps thanks for not ripping me a new one still a newbie to the forms 

cheers


----------



## cupper

mariomike said:
			
		

> "iii. Only candidates holding British nationality are eligible for the Submarine Service. No nationality waivers will be considered.":
> http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/Careers/How-To-Join/Eligibility



They still allow RCN submariners to do attachments to RN boats though don't they?


----------



## Pusser

cupper said:
			
		

> However, as far as I know (based on asking the question of a USMC recruiter years ago), you do need to be a citizen in order to become an officer.  Things may have changed since then, but considering that the US Armed Forces are currently downsizing, not likely.


----------



## JorgSlice

Pusser said:
			
		

> cupper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is correct. Citizens are the only ones that can become officers in the Army, Navy, Air Force. However I believe in the USMC you must have been born in the USA to be a Marine officer.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ex-SHAD

werger_9 said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> 
> so I am new to the forum and have a question. I am currently a 4th year nuclear engineer looking to join the US nuclear sub division, because well Canada doesn't have one. Is it possible to join the US military even if i am a Canadian citizen or do I need a green carrd? my Grandmother was born in the states and I have relatives that live their currently. How should i go about this?
> 
> thanks everyone.






So you want to join the US Army:

First off, before you go running down to the recruiting station and wasting your recruiter’s time, here’s a few things that you need to know:

1)   Are you a US Citizen or a Permanent Resident of the United States (Greencard), if you’re not, then don’t even bother wasting their time.
2)   Security Clearance: You cannot be a dual national and hold a security clearance. So if you want to go Intel, MP etc. then you best be ready to drop your Canadian Citizenship, but don’t worry it’s actually not that hard, you just need to fill out a rather irritating form, and wait for the government to process it (processing times are between 8 months to a year).
3)   MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station) here you’ll take your service medical, ASVAB, and FBI screening.
4)   Ship Date: Once you finally have completed all these requirements, you’ll ship to basic, and from basic you’ll head to AIT at whichever post it’s held.

Hopefully this helps, and make sure you study for the ASVAB and have all your documents ready, when you head to MEPS.

Good Luck.


----------



## daftandbarmy

werger_9 said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> 
> so I am new to the forum and have a question. I am currently a 4th year nuclear engineer looking to join the US nuclear sub division, because well Canada doesn't have one. Is it possible to join the US military even if i am a Canadian citizen or do I need a green carrd? my Grandmother was born in the states and I have relatives that live their currently. How should i go about this?
> 
> thanks everyone.



Speaking as a walking Fig 11 with more than 30 years in and Grade 11 math (with a hard earned C grade), if you're that smart, why the heck would you want to join the military? 

You could help put Japan back together while helping us colonize other planets (you know, like Cape Breton  ;D) in your spare time, or contract with a high paying firm that BUILD the friggin' nuke U-boats. 

I dunno...  :dunno:


----------



## aesop081

Ex-SHAD said:
			
		

> So you want to join the US Army:



No, he/she wants to work on US nuclear submarines. That means joining the US Navy.


----------



## Ex-SHAD

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> No, he/she wants to work on US nuclear submarines. That means joining the US Navy.



Well aside from changing the text, the key point is that the applicant must got through MEPS...but moreover since he isn't either a US National or a Green Card holder, there's no chance for him to apply at all.


----------



## Dan_P

Hi all,

I'm 26 this year and I am originally from the UK but have been living in Canada for the past year with my Canadian wife. Our spousal sponsorship should be done with early next year and I am looking to join the CF as an Imagery Technician. I was ready to apply for the British Navy before meeting my wife and due to her job, we decided it would be better for me to make the move to Canada.

Can anybody tell me, what sort of hurdles am I going to be looking towards? I've been told by a friend (currently in the CF) that I would likely have to join the reserves for a couple of years before I am eligible for the main forces as it will take a few years for me to reach status of full Canadian citizenship (passport status). Does the fact that I am from a Commonwealth country with Canada, have any advantage to me joining sooner rather than later?

What options do I have available to me right now?


----------



## Brasidas

Dan_P said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm 26 this year and I am originally from the UK but have been living in Canada for the past year with my Canadian wife. Our spousal sponsorship should be done with early next year and I am looking to join the CF as an Imagery Technician. I was ready to apply for the British Navy before meeting my wife and due to her job, we decided it would be better for me to make the move to Canada.
> 
> Can anybody tell me, what sort of hurdles am I going to be looking towards? I've been told by a friend (currently in the CF) that I would likely have to join the reserves for a couple of years before I am eligible for the main forces as it will take a few years for me to reach status of full Canadian citizenship (passport status). Does the fact that I am from a Commonwealth country with Canada, have any advantage to me joining sooner rather than later?
> 
> What options do I have available to me right now?



Back when I first joined in the 90's it was common for non-citizens to join the reserves. Today, you need to have citizenship.

Reference:
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/faq-101

Plan to join the CF when you have your citizenship.


----------



## agc

Dan_P said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm 26 this year and I am originally from the UK but have been living in Canada for the past year with my Canadian wife. Our spousal sponsorship should be done with early next year and I am looking to join the CF as an Imagery Technician. I was ready to apply for the British Navy before meeting my wife and due to her job, we decided it would be better for me to make the move to Canada.
> 
> Can anybody tell me, what sort of hurdles am I going to be looking towards? I've been told by a friend (currently in the CF) that I would likely have to join the reserves for a couple of years before I am eligible for the main forces as it will take a few years for me to reach status of full Canadian citizenship (passport status). Does the fact that I am from a Commonwealth country with Canada, have any advantage to me joining sooner rather than later?
> 
> What options do I have available to me right now?



You'll need to have your citizenship before you'll get to have your application processed.  Some commonwealth countries have other standards, but this is the way we do it here.

In the meantime, make sure you are getting yourself in top physical condition.  Don't sit around doing nothing.  Get some work, preferably in a related civilian occupation.  Education upgrading is well regarded (IT and photography are preferable in this case).  Volunteering is also good.  There's lot of good advice on the forums about how to make sure you have a strong, competitive application.  There's also some not so good advice from time to time, so read the threads first, and clarify any points as required.

Image tech is a small trade, and has a pretty wide appeal.  Aim for it, but make sure you know what your plan B is.  If you decide on a second occupation choice in the military, make sure it is something you could enjoy for the entire time you're in the CF; remusters are possible, but in no way guaranteed.

Welcome to Canada, and best of luck.


----------



## Dan_P

agc said:
			
		

> You'll need to have your citizenship before you'll get to have your application processed.  Some commonwealth countries have other standards, but this is the way we do it here.
> 
> In the meantime, make sure you are getting yourself in top physical condition.  Don't sit around doing nothing.  Get some work, preferably in a related civilian occupation.  Education upgrading is well regarded (IT and photography are preferable in this case).  Volunteering is also good.  There's lot of good advice on the forums about how to make sure you have a strong, competitive application.  There's also some not so good advice from time to time, so read the threads first, and clarify any points as required.
> 
> Image tech is a small trade, and has a pretty wide appeal.  Aim for it, but make sure you know what your plan B is.  If you decide on a second occupation choice in the military, make sure it is something you could enjoy for the entire time you're in the CF; remusters are possible, but in no way guaranteed.
> 
> Welcome to Canada, and best of luck.



Thanks for everyone's replies so far.

I've definitely taken the training into account, I used to train contact sports in the UK and since moving here I've taken up bouldering and do daily calisthenics. I'm only worried about the distance running/full-kit marching. I've also been studying college and university level photography for around 9 years so far and am going into my 2nd year at the School of Photographic Arts in Ottawa, this September so I'm _hoping_ that will stand me in good stead when I submit an application. Volunteering is something I will work on.

I do have a second option but it's perhaps a bit bold as things stand right now, I have thought about some kind of structural engineering position as I almost went to Architectural school a few years back (instead of my photography degree) and still have an interest in architecture and building. However I don't have any formal education in it, so unless they decide I'm eligible for funded education, I might have to dig through the occupations list again.

One more question. I've just searched through the forums for things relating to tattoos but there appears to be a lot of results and I can't differentiate between posts concerning tattoos going into the military and people discussing tattoo parlors and ideas. So, just to confirm, the CF doesn't deny entry based on a large coverage of tattoos unless they are above the collarbone and/or are offensive? Neither of these apply to me, but I do have extensive work on my torso and arms and would like to get my hands and legs done in the future. Is it suggested for me to get my hand/leg tattoo's done before I join/before I apply or after I have joined/applied or after I have already served some time in the CF?

Thanks!


----------



## PuckChaser

If it fits under standard clothing, normally people will look the other way. Lots of people have tattoos, and lots of them in the CF. Hand tattoos are a little iffy, but I've seen people get away with having them done while serving and they didn't face any discipline for it.


----------



## agc

Current policy says no tattoos visible on the hands, chest or neck when an open collared long sleeve shirt is worn.  You can be rejected from the application process if you have them.


----------



## yakherder

Greetings 

I'm a new resident of Quebec, having moved here from the U.S. to live with my girlfriend and newborn son.  I am still in the U.S. Army, driving across the border regularly for training.  I'll be eligible for citizenship in Canada at about the same time my enlistment is up, and intend to go into the Canadian Army and make a career out of it.

What do you guys anticipate having a demand for, since I'll be finishing my degree while I'm waiting and still have some flexibility at this point (my current focus is IT security)?

My background is mostly in cryptology, and I do speak Chinese (and am working hard on French now), but I'm currently in an infantry brigade and tend to prefer ruck marches in the mountains over a cubicle and a computer.  But either could work depending on where the demand is.

Also, does anyone know if certain qualifications are transferable?  Not worried so much about ribbons and medals and stuff, but was wondering if I can still wear my air assault and mountain warfare badges.  I ask only because I've seen Canadian soldiers taking these courses in the U.S before, so I would assume the qualification is the same.


----------



## PuckChaser

The only tabs I've seen authorized for wear on a CF uniform was a Ranger Tab and SF Tab, and only on dress uniform.

You won't really find anything by way of ruck marching with a focus on cryptology or IT security. We tend to hide those people in cubicles.


----------



## MikeL

If you do join the CF,  you would only be able to wear US badges like Air Assault on DEUs if you go down to the US for an event.  As for qualifications carrying over, I'm sure you can have it noted on your file, and some may courses may show up on the MPRR.  You would be able to find that all out in the recruiting process I would imagine,  or at least have a PLAR done once you show up to your unit once you are done your training.


----------



## The_Falcon

agc said:
			
		

> Current policy says no tattoos visible on the hands, chest or neck when an open collared long sleeve shirt is worn.  You can be rejected from the application process if you have them.



You can have tattoo's on your hands, so long as they aren't offensive.


----------



## AimzHigh

I have wanted to get into the Canadian forces a few years now.  I didn't know there was a specific time that was best to apply the first time I applied 2 years ago (when they only hired 5000 new recruits).  Last year (Only took 2500 new recruits) I was on time but because of some complications with moving across the country things were delayed, apparently by a little too much, and again I missed the boat.  This year I swore I'd do everything to make sure I applied as early as possible and consistently stayed in touch with CFRC to avoid any confusion.  Apparently this year they're only taking 1500 new recuits and, as of right now, they're not taking ANY Infantry or Combat Engineers (which are the two trades I'd want).

So, I'd like your thoughts on joining a foreign military.  I considered applying for the US Army, US Marines, British Army, or who knows... if I could meet the standards maybe Royal Marines, though I'm not sure of the requirements.  

Some of my concerns:

From what I understand the US Army requires you to become a US Citizen first and they don't allow a dual citizenship anymore.  So I guess that means I'd have to give up my Canadian citizenship??  I'm not sure I could do that.  

The British Army are part of the commonwealth so I wouldn't have to give up my citizenship or gain one there, as far as I know, but it's a really long way from home.  I live in Windsor, ON which is actually south of Detroit.  The American culture poors into this city a little more, I think, then the rest of the country.  I think the US and Canada, are a lot alike - at least compared to Canada and the UK.

I'm still researching different options.  My whole problem is that I feel like my opportunity to be the most that I can be in the army is slipping away.  I'm 28 now and not getting any younger.  I know people join at much older ages then this but I'd really like to excel to levels that require a very high level of physical fitness.  Don't ask why I didn't attempt to get in sooner.  That opportunity is gone and I'm looking forward.

I am a proud Canadian but serving as a soldier is what I want to do and I may not have that chance in the Candian forces.  I feel a little guilty considering joining a different army.  Is this selfish or childish of me?

Would love your honest opinions. Thanks.


----------



## MikeL

There is a few threads on this subject.  Also you do not require US citizenship to join the Army and Marines only a green card. But,  no citizenship no security clearance which means limited job options.  Also the US Military will not sponsor you for a green card. Unless you are a green card holder or US citizen or an immediate family member is you are SOL.  I think you maybe at the max age to join the USMC Active Duty as well.


Info regarding recruitment for the Royal Marine such as requirements, physical requirements, joining as a non UK resident are online. Visit their website and contact them for more info as required.

Also don't feel guilty about thinking about this. You wouldn't be the first;  and there have been numerous Canadians who have joined the US and UK Military.


----------



## Towards_the_gap

Don't feel guilty. You wouldn't be the first Canadian to serve in a foreign army. That being said, you need to make your mind up sharpish as you are approaching the upper limit of age for both RM and the British Army. You are already too old to join the British Army as an officer. 

Also if you are considering RM you better be in top physical fitness i.e. 2.4km in <9 minutes, 60 pushups, 60 situps, 10 chin-ups, that sort of thing.


----------



## yakherder

Confirming what a couple people have said regarding the U.S. military as well as adding a few more things...

Assuming you can find a way to get residency in the U.S. (finding someone to marry is probably the easiest way ), you shouldn't have any issues joining the military.  Only the clearance will be an issue until you gain citizenship.  However, being in the military allows you to apply for citizenship under different rules, the most important of which is that instead of having to wait for 3 to 5 years (depending on your type of residency), you only have to serve in the U.S. military for 1 year in order to be eligible for citizenship.  If you serve during times of hostility (such as right now), you don't even have to wait a year.  You might find this interesting:  http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/citizenship.htm

As far as age, that's already going to be an issue with the Marines.  For the Army, however, you still have a few more years.  I think the limit is 35 right now.  I don't know exactly what you're looking for (support, infantry, elite, etc.), but regardless of the age limit for the Army as a whole, the age limit for special forces is 30.  You can, however, still go to Ranger school, air assault, jump school, etc., and there are some pretty hard core units out there.  10th Mountain out of Fort Drum, for example, is top notch in my opinion, and they'll probably even give you a chance to go to the Army Mountain Warfare School and, after that, the assault climber school, in Vermont.

To be honest, I'm actually asking myself many of the same questions.  I'm 34 years old and have recently moved to Quebec to be with my girlfriend and son, but I'm still on drill status with the U.S. Army, having put in 6 years of active service and going on 6 years of National Guard service.  Now I'm considering joining the Canadian Forces, but I'm having second thoughts.  There is no doubt in my mind that I don't ever want to be anything other than a soldier.  Civilian life bores the hell out of me, and I love the looks of the CF overall.  But starting over at age 35 means I'd be an old man by the time I could get a decent pension out of it, or I could convince my girlfriend to let me go back to the U.S. Army and finish out my retirement there.  Either way, it's all about finances really.  We're all on the same team, more or less, fighting the same fight.  That said, other preferences aside, if you're looking for action the U.S. military has plenty of it.

Also, the pay difference...  At first glance, I looked at the pay chart and got the impression that the Canadian Forces pays considerably better.  But after learning how deductions work, that's adding to my second thoughts.  In the U.S. military my base pay is slightly lower (at a similar rank), but if I have a family and live off base, I get an untaxed basic housing allowance of about 1k to 1.5k depending on where I'm stationed.  In the CF I'd make a slightly higher base pay, but I'd just receive less deductions for living off base with a family.

But anyway, just sharing my thoughts with you since you may find yourself considering the same things 

Ultimately, financial issues aside, I'd be proud to serve either country.


----------



## daftandbarmy

AimzHigh said:
			
		

> I have wanted to get into the Canadian forces a few years now.  I didn't know there was a specific time that was best to apply the first time I applied 2 years ago (when they only hired 5000 new recruits).  Last year (Only took 2500 new recruits) I was on time but because of some complications with moving across the country things were delayed, apparently by a little too much, and again I missed the boat.  This year I swore I'd do everything to make sure I applied as early as possible and consistently stayed in touch with CFRC to avoid any confusion.  Apparently this year they're only taking 1500 new recuits and, as of right now, they're not taking ANY Infantry or Combat Engineers (which are the two trades I'd want).
> 
> So, I'd like your thoughts on joining a foreign military.  I considered applying for the US Army, US Marines, British Army, or who knows... if I could meet the standards maybe Royal Marines, though I'm not sure of the requirements.
> 
> Some of my concerns:
> 
> From what I understand the US Army requires you to become a US Citizen first and they don't allow a dual citizenship anymore.  So I guess that means I'd have to give up my Canadian citizenship??  I'm not sure I could do that.
> 
> The British Army are part of the commonwealth so I wouldn't have to give up my citizenship or gain one there, as far as I know, but it's a really long way from home.  I live in Windsor, ON which is actually south of Detroit.  The American culture poors into this city a little more, I think, then the rest of the country.  I think the US and Canada, are a lot alike - at least compared to Canada and the UK.
> 
> I'm still researching different options.  My whole problem is that I feel like my opportunity to be the most that I can be in the army is slipping away.  I'm 28 now and not getting any younger.  I know people join at much older ages then this but I'd really like to excel to levels that require a very high level of physical fitness.  Don't ask why I didn't attempt to get in sooner.  That opportunity is gone and I'm looking forward.
> 
> I am a proud Canadian but serving as a soldier is what I want to do and I may not have that chance in the Candian forces.  I feel a little guilty considering joining a different army.  Is this selfish or childish of me?
> 
> Would love your honest opinions. Thanks.



28, confused and feeling guilty about foresaking your native land? The French Foreign Legion is what you need my good man! If you flunk out and aren't crippled you could always try the British Army, except their food is worse. 

Seriously, forget it. If you have to post on here for soemone to get you all fired up about doing something risky and exciting, you might want to think about staying in Canada.  ;D


----------



## AimzHigh

Thanks for all your input.  I really appreciate it.  I'll check out the links that were posted.

You too daftandbarmy.  Clearly an insightful intellect and an excellent judge of character.  You can read me like a book.  And from only a few short paragraphs!  Amazing.  Yours is the advice I'll take most to heart.


----------



## Quantology

Hello folks,

I am a British Citizen with Canadian permanent resident status and looking to sign up for the Canadian Regular forces. How do I go about joining? Is it possible for me to apply for both CF & Citizenship at the same time? The current wait for citizen from start to end is roughly two years (Note, I am 19 and have been in Canada since 1998.) and of course the application wait time.

I am currently in College, however I would rather do something with the Forces instead. I figured I would post here and see what people had to say before bugging my recruiter.

Thanks,

Jordan


----------



## ModlrMike

Taken from the forces.ca website:



> To apply to the Canadian Forces, you must:
> 
> Be a Canadian Citizen.
> Be 17 years of age, with parental consent, or older, except:
> Regular Officer Training Plan – Junior applications must be 16 or older.



Looks like you'll have to wait until your citizenship process is completed in order to apply.


----------



## DAA

Generally speaking, you need to be a Canadian Citizen to be enrolled.  Exceptions do happen but normally only in cases where the individual applying possesses prior military service and specialized training from a Commonwealth or NATO military force which makes them a "skilled" applicant and I don't think that would apply in your case.

You can apply but you will need to apply for your permanent Canadian Citizenship at the sametime in order to be considered.


----------



## mj_lover

my experience, having been in a similar situation, the recruiting center cant do anything with you until you have your citizenship, they told me to upgrade and start getting in better shape. and citizenship only took me a year. used that time to finish my apprenticeship, so have college certificate and a red seal qualification (somewhat related to the trade I wanted in the cf). and at 19, you have time to better yourself, and time to reflect if it is what you want to do. 
i'm just an applicant waiting for the call, so take the opinion for what its worth


----------



## Sword

I might be daydreaming too much and it's unlikely anyone on here has any info about this but I figure I'll ask anyway. Does anyone know how the US or British air forces handle people with RCAF pilot training? I love my country but I hate how small and limited its air force is. If I was ever accepted, I think a few years down the road I might want to transfer to one of these forces only because I would want to the opportunity to be able to pilot the huge variety of aircraft they have that we don't, ie; bomber aircraft, CAS (warthogs, etc), high-tech transports like the Osprey, let alone the most cutting edge fighters (and a lot more of them than we do).


----------



## PuckChaser

Sword said:
			
		

> I might be daydreaming too much and it's unlikely anyone on here has any info about this but I figure I'll ask anyway. Does anyone know how the US or British air forces handle people with RCAF pilot training? I love my country but I hate how small and limited its air force is. If I was ever accepted, I think a few years down the road I might want to transfer to one of these forces only because I would want to the opportunity to be able to pilot the huge variety of aircraft they have that we don't, ie; bomber aircraft, CAS (warthogs, etc), high-tech transports like the Osprey, let alone the most cutting edge fighters (and a lot more of them than we do).



How about not wasting the RCAF's time and just apply to those airforces right off the bat? Theres plenty of people that want a pilot spot and are willing to do 25 years serving Canada that I hope get a spot before you.


----------



## Sword

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> How about not wasting the RCAF's time and just apply to those airforces right off the bat? Theres plenty of people that want a pilot spot and are willing to do 25 years serving Canada that I hope get a spot before you.



OR better idea: How about you keep your personal opinions to yourself and only post useful information? Even better, how about if I get in I serve my contract and do whatever I want when I'm done? Yeah I think I'll do that.


----------



## Monsoon

Sword said:
			
		

> OR better idea: How about you keep your personal opinions to yourself and only post useful information? Even better, how about if I get in I serve my contract and do whatever I want when I'm done? Yeah I think I'll do that.


Do whatever you want, champ. Just make sure you let the recruiters know what you're thinking - to do otherwise would be immoral.


----------



## fruitflavor

For those who wanting to join US military and without citizenship there is a way.
I believe it has been mentioned in this thread or some other thread previously but MILITARY ACCESSIONS VITAL TO NATIONAL INTEREST (MAVNI) program of US armed forces allow foreigners with special set of skills that they need and meeting certain requirements to enlist

more details visit attached links
http://www.defense.gov/news/mavni-fact-sheet.pdf
http://www.goarmy.com/content/dam/goarmy/downloaded_assets/mavni/mavni-amedd.pdf

*at the moment only army is recruiting and air force less than 10 people*

Though as much as I love Canada and have lived there for the majority of life since immigrating but my occupation upon graduation requires licensing from the board which can take anywhere from 6 months to a year upon return home and being job less during that time and not being able to start the process with canadian forces until being licensed is a big problem for me. 
So I may take advantage of this program and if they will take me sign with Uncle Sam.  :'(


----------



## the 48th regulator

Sword said:
			
		

> OR better idea: How about you keep your personal opinions to yourself and only post useful information? Even better, how about if I get in I serve my contract and do whatever I want when I'm done? Yeah I think I'll do that.



Do you want help, or are you here to stir the pot, there Maverick?

You want to waste the CFs time to train you, only to jump ship?  Pfft, trundle along and take Puckchasers advice.

This isn't a site for XBOX wannabes to strut their stuff, and intimidate the membership, most of which have more time on a an Aeroplane than you do on this God Given Earth!

dileas

tess


----------



## Journeyman

Sword said:
			
		

> ....I would want to the opportunity to be able to pilot the huge variety of aircraft they have that we don't, ie; bomber aircraft, CAS (warthogs, etc), high-tech transports like the Osprey, let alone the most cutting edge fighters ....


Do you believe that USAF pilots fly B-2s for a couple of years, move on to F-22s until they get bored, then its on to V-22s?


----------



## greentoblue

Sword said:
			
		

> I might be daydreaming too much and it's unlikely anyone on here has any info about this but I figure I'll ask anyway. Does anyone know how the US or British air forces handle people with RCAF pilot training? I love my country but I hate how small and limited its air force is. If I was ever accepted, I think a few years down the road I might want to transfer to one of these forces only because I would want to the opportunity to be able to pilot the huge variety of aircraft they have that we don't, ie; bomber aircraft, CAS (warthogs, etc), high-tech transports like the Osprey, let alone the most cutting edge fighters (and a lot more of them than we do).



First off, assuming that you are even successful in getting your wings - which takes about 3-4 yrs to get from enrollment - you automatically incur 7 years of obligatory service so the government can get its money back from training you.  So really you are looking at 11 years in the RCAF.  Secondly, both the RAF and USAF are going through cutbacks; in the case of the RAF very severe downsizing with whole squadrons being eliminated.  So ask yourself this: if they are getting rid of their own trained people why would they want to hire a foreigner?  Instead its us that is hiring them.  According to the Ottawa Citizen on 1 Apr 12, we hired one ex-RAF pilot and were in the process of hiring 20-25 more of them to fill our ranks.  

As for flying a variety of aircraft throughout a career you are better off in the RCAF than the USAF.  Pilots are grouped by communities like the infantry into regiments.  In the RCAF most pilots stick with their communities but we do allow pilots to switch on a fairly regular basis.  I've worked with pilots who did tours in tac hel and then went transport/multiengine; from fighters to tac hel; tac hel to fighters; fighters to multiengine.  And our Snowbird pilots come from a variety of communities instead of just fighters like the USAF with the Thunderbirds and the USN with the Blue Angels.  In the USAF it is very rare for a pilot to switch communities voluntarily unless they are going from the regular air force to the reserve or national guard.  For example the fighter guys have to be forced to do predator tours "drone zone flying", they call it.  

As for cutting edge aircraft to fly, the RCAF has a fairly good stable right now or in delivery: the EH101, C17, CH47F (first one delivered and undergoing testing) and C130J are all advanced aircraft.  Even the Cyclone project to replace the Sea King is inching its way to delivery.  If the F35 project comes through our fighter fleet will be as advanced as any NATO ally (with the exception of the USAF F22 which no other country has until congress changes the law against exporting it).

Finally, if you really want to fly with the US or British, the RCAF has exchange positions with them on operational squadrons and their schools.  One of my previous bosses served on exchange with the British Army Air Corps while another was deputy commander of a US Navy squadron on the east coast and yet another flew with a US Army Air Cavalry Regiment.  Astronaut and retired Colonel Hadfield went to the USAF Test Pilot School (top candidate) and served on exchange as a US Navy test pilot (US Navy Test Pilot of the Year 1991).  If you can get one of these exchange slots you can ask them then how they'd handle any qualifications you might receive from the RCAF.


----------



## Scott

Sword said:
			
		

> OR better idea: How about you keep your personal opinions to yourself and only post useful information? Even better, how about if I get in I serve my contract and do whatever I want when I'm done? Yeah I think I'll do that.



I'm on your side, bro. Who are these people to think that they can offer real life advice and opinion based on what you offered up in your first post. 

How. Fucking. Dare. They. 

That would be, like, so _discussion_ forum-esque. ^-^

I'm glad you showed up here, don't let the haters get you down dude. You go right ahead and join up and chase your dreams. Get all ticketed up and bail to somewhere else. The grass IS greener, everything you've been told about it not being so is a lie.

Fuck morals, man, you don't owe anyone anything!

rancing:


----------



## MikeL

Sword said:
			
		

> I might be daydreaming too much and it's unlikely anyone on here has any info about this but I figure I'll ask anyway. Does anyone know how the US or British air forces handle people with RCAF pilot training?



I remember hearing somewhere that if you served in another country's military,  you are disqualified from joining the USAF.  You can chat with a USAF Recruiter to confirm if that info is correct or false.

Also there is the whole citizenship issue - you need to have someone who is an immediate family member who is a US Citizen(or Green Card holder) to sponsor.  To be an officer in the US Military,  you need to be a US Citizen.
http://www.airforce.com/contact-us/faq/eligibility/#non-us-join


> I am a non-U.S. citizen. Can I join?
> 
> Enlistment into the U.S. Air Force by citizens of countries other than the United States is limited to those foreign nationals who are legally residing in the United States and possess an Immigrations and Naturalization Service Alien Registration Card (INS Form I-151/551, commonly known as a "Green Card"). Applicants must be between 17 and 27; meet the mental, moral and physical standards for enlistment; and must speak, read and write English fluently.
> 
> Note: The U.S. military branches cannot assist foreign nationals in obtaining admittance into the United States. Questions concerning immigration to the United States should be asked of the U.S. Embassy. Only after immigration procedures are completed and an applicant is legally residing in the United States may an application for enlistment be accepted. Furthermore, in order to be commissioned an officer in the U.S. Air Force, one must be a native-born or naturalized United States citizen.


----------



## OldSolduer

Sword said:
			
		

> OR better idea: How about you keep your personal opinions to yourself and only post useful information? Even better, how about if I get in I serve my contract and do whatever I want when I'm done? Yeah I think I'll do that.


 :facepalm:

Good luck in the USAF/RAF. Go, now.


We don't need the arrogance you have just displayed.


We have quite enough already.


----------



## brihard

Sword said:
			
		

> OR better idea: How about you keep your personal opinions to yourself and only post useful information? Even better, how about if I get in I serve my contract and do whatever I want when I'm done? Yeah I think I'll do that.



With an attitude like that, I would dearly hope you would move on from CF service as quickly as they would allow you. You would not be needed in our ranks.

I more fervently hope that your efforts to join are simply fruitless, and that the position goes to someone more deserving and with a better ethic of service to their country, rather than someone with fantasies of flying the highest tech kit they can get their hands on. You are a classic case of someone who would be joining for the wrong reasons.


----------



## lstpierre

Sword said:
			
		

> OR better idea: How about you keep your personal opinions to yourself and only post useful information? Even better, how about if I get in I serve my contract and do whatever I want when I'm done? Yeah I think I'll do that.



I wouldn't worry about what you'll be doing in your post-RCAF career, because I'm willing to bet you won't have one with your mindset. Go ahead and tell your interviewer you want to join so you can go "PEW PEW PEW!!! Gotcha!!" and let me know how that works out for you.


----------



## ChaosTheory

Good Day All,

I did a search on this topic in these forums and the only relevant thread I found was here (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16844.150.html) which quickly diverged to being singularly focused on the British military.

I am currently in CF and my initial contract is up in 2015.  It is still early, I know, but knowing how long things take I want to start looking into it now and possibly applying.

New Zealand and Australia have programs that will allow Canadians with military experience to move laterally to their forces to take the same trade and rank with minimal training.  It looks like they may be able to pay to move you to there and eventually get your citizenship there.  These programs can be found here

http://www.defencecareers.mil.nz/how-to-join/overseas-applicants

http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentcentre/canIJoin/overseasApplicants/Default.aspx

I am considering doing this for a number of reasons (which I am not going to get into).  My concern though is that to do that is a really big decision.  There's a lot of information that is not available on those sites, and while I am trying to get ahold of their recruiters, I am looking for people who have done one of these moves, or knows someone who has.  I want to make sure that if I go with my wife that we wont be making a terrible decision where we are losing all these great benefits, that we will be dirt poor and have a poor standard of living, where we have no chance of advancements opportunities, that we will become depressed from being lonely and feeling isolated having left all our friends and family behind.

Basically I am trying to get as much information as I can before I make a large move.


----------



## noneck

There may be a bit more info for you over on ARRSE, but it would be from the point of view of UK Forces members looking to transfer. I've definitely read the posts on both the OZ and Kiwi threads where advice is being provided by Brits who havemade the jump.

Be carefull..... ARRSE isn't as forgiving as this forum!!!

Cheers
Noneck


----------



## daftandbarmy

noneck said:
			
		

> There may be a bit more info for you over on ARRSE, but it would be from the point of view of UK Forces members looking to transfer. I've definitely read the posts on both the OZ and Kiwi threads where advice is being provided by Brits who havemade the jump.
> 
> Be carefull..... *ARRSE isn't as forgiving as this forum!!!*
> 
> Cheers
> Noneck



Kind of like the British Army  ;D


----------



## Canadian.Trucker

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> We don't need the arrogance you have just displayed.
> 
> 
> We have quite enough already.


*high fives Jim*
Thanks for the shout out!


----------



## Danjanou

noneck said:
			
		

> There may be a bit more info for you over on ARRSE, but it would be from the point of view of UK Forces members looking to transfer. I've definitely read the posts on both the OZ and Kiwi threads where advice is being provided by Brits who havemade the jump.
> 
> Be carefull..... ARRSE isn't as forgiving as this forum!!!
> 
> Cheers
> Noneck



Really I find them friendly helpful sorts  >


----------



## dimsum

Sareon said:
			
		

> Good Day All,
> 
> I did a search on this topic in these forums and the only relevant thread I found was here (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16844.150.html) which quickly diverged to being singularly focused on the British military.
> 
> I am currently in CF and my initial contract is up in 2015.  It is still early, I know, but knowing how long things take I want to start looking into it now and possibly applying.
> 
> New Zealand and Australia have programs that will allow Canadians with military experience to move laterally to their forces to take the same trade and rank with minimal training.  It looks like they may be able to pay to move you to there and eventually get your citizenship there.  These programs can be found here
> 
> http://www.defencecareers.mil.nz/how-to-join/overseas-applicants
> 
> http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentcentre/canIJoin/overseasApplicants/Default.aspx
> 
> I am considering doing this for a number of reasons (which I am not going to get into).  My concern though is that to do that is a really big decision.  There's a lot of information that is not available on those sites, and while I am trying to get ahold of their recruiters, I am looking for people who have done one of these moves, or knows someone who has.  I want to make sure that if I go with my wife that we wont be making a terrible decision where we are losing all these great benefits, that we will be dirt poor and have a poor standard of living, where we have no chance of advancements opportunities, that we will become depressed from being lonely and feeling isolated having left all our friends and family behind.
> 
> Basically I am trying to get as much information as I can before I make a large move.



I have had limited dealings with the Aus Army while posted here, but from what I can tell the ADF is paid very well.  This is partially due to the high cost of living in Australia.  NZ has a high cost of living (visiting there in July last year, gas was $2/litre) but nowhere near the same pay as the ADF.

Base-wise, the Aus Army have bases fairly close to cities (Sydney and Brisbane) but their main focus is in Townsville (~100,000 people in central coast of Queensland) and Darwin.  There is a group out in Perth and Adelaide as well.  Generally speaking, the ADF don't tend to station their bases far from centres of population, with some notable exceptions.

In the RAAF, there are tons of Canadians who have moved over.  Most really enjoy the transfer, but they had to give up their pension.  Australia has something called "superannuation" which isn't guaranteed like a pension; I'm not totally sure of the ins and outs of that.  

There is a bit of a culture shock going to Oz (and to a bit of a lesser extent, NZ) as they will seem fairly "British" at first until you realize (personal opinion) that Aussies are essentially the same as Americans, and Kiwis are essentially the Cdn equivalents.  This transfers a bit to the ADF as well; they have just instituted their version of SHARP training over the last year and I'm not convinced it's really working all that well here.  There is still an underlying "frat boy" mentality to a lot of Aussie culture.

Not sure what your wife does, but getting certifications may be an issue.  Partners of folks I know have had to either re-train or do something else entirely as some (most?) Cdn quals don't transfer over.  

I don't know (and won't ask) why you're considering the swap, but there *may* be a bit of "grass is greener on the other side" thing.  I like being posted here with the RCAF, but would happily return to Canada if, say I was getting posted to Victoria or Comox again (k, fine even Ottawa).  

If you want some more info regarding the ADF, I have contacts in the Aus Army, RAN and RAAF who you can chat to.  I add in the other two because not knowing your trade in the CF, our "purple" trades are split between the three services and so a clerk could be either AA, RAN or RAAF.  Shoot me a PM and we can go from there.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

I am afraid that as of July 11 you are pretty much shit out of luck

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2360771/Commonwealth-citizens-live-Britain-years-joining-Armed-Forces-ministers-try-cut-military-numbers.html



> Commonwealth Army heroes 'betrayed' as the MoD brings in test forcing them to live in Britain for five years before signing up
> Defence Minister Mark Francois makes announcement to MPs
> Qualification, which was scrapped in 1998, to be reinstated immediately
> Government restructuring Armed Forces following 2010 Review
> By IAN DRURY, DEFENCE CORRESPONDENT
> PUBLISHED: 18:16 GMT, 11 July 2013 | UPDATED: 07:38 GMT, 12 July 2013
> 713 shares 129 View
> comments
> Soldiers from Commonwealth countries have been banned from joining Britain’s Armed Forces unless they have lived here for five years.
> The residency test, which came into force yesterday, will prevent overseas recruits joining immediately as they do now.
> The Ministry of Defence reinstated the requirement, which was scrapped in 1998, as it attempts to reduce the size of the military by nearly 30,000 troops.
> Cutbacks: Commonwealth citizens will be require to have lived in Britain for five years before they are eligible to join the Armed Forces
> Cutbacks: Commonwealth citizens will be require to have lived in Britain for five years before they are eligible to join the Armed Forces
> OUR COMMONWEALTH HEROES
> Johnson Beharry, from Grenada, was awarded the Victoria Cross
> Recruits from Commonwealth countries have a long and distinguished history of serving in the Armed Forces.
> In the First World War, 1.2million men from the Indian Army fought alongside the Allies with 74,000 losing their lives.
> Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, and South Africa all lent troops during World War Two.
> And Britain's Commonwealth companions have proved to be brave in the battlefield.
> Johnson Beharry, pictured above, originally from Grenada, was awarded the Victoria Cross for his valour while serving in Iraq.
> Others to have been given the highest military honour include two Australians Keith Payne and Rayene Stewart Simpson for their actions in the Vietnam War.
> But the controversial move could lead to accusations of betrayal because Commonwealth troops have shed blood for the UK on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan – as well as in previous conflicts such as the two world wars.
> In the past decade 24 Commonwealth soldiers have been killed in conflict. Dozens more have been wounded.
> If the rules had been in place when Sergeant Johnson Beharry arrived in Britain from the Caribbean island of Grenada in 1999, he would not have been permitted to join the Army in 2001.
> 
> And the soldier, who serves with the 1st Battalion the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment, would not have been on the Iraq battlefield in 2004, when he won the Victoria Cross for twice saving comrades in ambushes.
> Typically, 500 Commonwealth soldiers are among the 7,000 new recruits each year and the residency rule could leave the Forces perilously overstretched if they failed to recruit enough British soldiers.
> Throughout the infantry, about one in ten soldiers is from outside Britain. Many join units that fail to recruit their full complement of soldiers  at home.
> But Armed Forces Minister Mark Francois said the rule was unavoidable as the military coped with sweeping cuts. In a written ministerial statement he acknowledged the contribution of Commonwealth citizens serving in the British Armed Forces.
> But he added: ‘In order to deliver the future structure of the Armed Forces under the requirements of the Strategic Defence and Security Review, we are already reducing their size by adjusting our recruit intake and making some redundancies.
> ‘We are confident that we will still  be able to meet our recruitment targets.’
> Change: The ruling had been scrapped in 1998 but is now being reinstated, effective immediately
> Change: The ruling had been scrapped in 1998 but is now being reinstated, effective immediately
> The changes will not affect Gurkhas or those from the Republic of Ireland, Cyprus and Malta.
> Labour defence spokesman Jim Murphy said: ‘When rightly recruiting those from the UK, ministers must never undermine the many sacrifices and commitments made by those from the Commonwealth who have served on frontlines across the globe in the name of British national security.
> ‘The country will want to know this is based on the best possible military advice and nothing else.’
> Colonel Richard Kemp, who  commanded British forces in Afghanistan, praised the long tradition of ‘sterling service’ that Commonwealth soldiers have provided – ‘and still provide’ – in the Army.
> He said the Armed Forces had ‘depended heavily’ on Commonwealth troops to bring units up to strength and accused the MoD of using ineffective recruiting techniques.
> But he added: ‘However, at a time when our Armed Forces are reducing to the lowest levels in more than a century, it is right that priority should be given to British citizens.’
> An MoD spokesman said: ‘At a time when we are having to reduce the  size of our Armed Forces, it is only right we focus on recruiting  UK personnel.’


----------



## UnwiseCritic

I wonder if this will affect people with current previous military experience? My best guess is yes.

I was in the application process for the royal marines not too long ago. But it's not to be right now. But when I was in England at a recruiting center I asked if commonwealth citizens suffered any "discrimination" in the selection process. Officially it was a no, but he said they will take the Brit if they have equal potential. However they do like commonwealth members with previous service as they are less of a risk.

I was hoping to try again down the road, so hopefully this changes. Or foreign military service bears some weight on the choices.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

UnwiseCritic said:
			
		

> I wonder if this will affect people with current previous military experience? My best guess is yes.
> 
> I was in the application process for the royal marines not too long ago. But it's not to be right now. But when I was in England at a recruiting center I asked if commonwealth citizens suffered any "discrimination" in the selection process. Officially it was a no, but he said they will take the Brit if they have equal potential. However they do like commonwealth members with previous service as they are less of a risk.
> 
> I was hoping to try again down the road, so hopefully this changes. Or foreign military service bears some weight on the choices.



Yes it most definitely will, I have also heard that they are not renewing any soldiers contracts who are from commonwealth countries once their TOS are up as a way of meeting force reductions laid out in the SDR.


----------



## UnwiseCritic

RoyalDrew said:
			
		

> Yes it most definitely will, I have also heard that they are not renewing any soldiers contracts who are from commonwealth countries once their TOS are up as a way of meeting force reductions laid out in the SDR.



It is understandable


----------



## dimsum

Yep, I've heard rumblings about that.  There's always Australia for those so inclined.


----------



## Flaker

Australia only picks certain trades and ranks with certain age requirements on some of those.

It's the "What are you going to do for us mentality", that said. It's the right kind of mentality unfortunately shared by would be recruits.


----------



## daftandbarmy

UnwiseCritic said:
			
		

> I wonder if this will affect people with current previous military experience? My best guess is yes.
> 
> I was in the application process for the royal marines not too long ago. But it's not to be right now. But when I was in England at a recruiting center I asked if commonwealth citizens suffered any "discrimination" in the selection process. Officially it was a no, but he said they will take the Brit if they have equal potential. However they do like commonwealth members with previous service as they are less of a risk.
> 
> I was hoping to try again down the road, so hopefully this changes. Or foreign military service bears some weight on the choices.



Marche ou Creve mon vieux!


http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Marche ou Creve mon vieux!
> 
> 
> http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/



My thoughts exactly, if you want to experience another military take the the plunge and join the FFL, besides it is not nearly as horrible as it used to be, atleast according to my friends over at http://www.cervens.net

 ;D


----------



## UnwiseCritic

I have never seriously considered the legion as I think they are over hyped. I don't question their abilities, or methods. What they do seems to work for them and it's been working for a long time.

I have read two books, 

        The first was about a Scott who loved his time with the legion but his life was in the sh*****r prior to joining. He had attempted suicide, was on the older side with no previous military experience.

        The being on an Australian who was educated and previous served in the ADF. He was quickly disillusioned, his expectations may have been a little high. The lack of individual responsibilities and poor quality of leadership and some of their out dated tactics would destroy many a thinking man's brain.

I found I really sided with the Australian, but all the  power to those who take the "plunge"


----------



## TXGuard

Howdy,

I'm a Texas National Guardsman, and was fortunate enough to marry a Canadian back in 2011.

She misses home quite a bit, and we've always half-joked about moving to Canada.

Basically what I'm looking for is a path to enlistment, so to speak. This is still purely hypothetical for me, because I'm still in the US military and have at least one year left.

I'm an SGT with one tour in Iraq, and a trip to Afghanistan as a dirty contractor (still here breathing in moondust, unfortunately). My job doesn't lend itself well to the private sector (outside of contracting, which is drying up by the day since we're running out of wars), so were I to move to Canada right now, I'd be asking you if you wanted fries with that. So military's my best option.

So far, my research indicates I'd have to be a Canadian citizen. Cool, not a problem. Was wondering, though, if there's any sort of program for individuals with prior military experience elsewhere. 

I'm sure I'm not unique, and I've heard indications I'd lose rank, which isn't a problem for me. Stripes are nice, but it's tough to enforce standards when you're reflexively trying to enforce another country's standards.

Can you guys advise? 

TIA


----------



## Bassil_Inf

Hey buddy you might want to give this a read. http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-support-services-for-members-reservists/index.page


----------



## TXGuard

I appreciate the link, but looking at it, it's geared primarily towards Canadian reservists. I'm a US reservist.

It appears one of the links is a program where I guess reservists from Canada could do their training requirements with a US unit, which is pretty cool, even though I've never seen it happen all the way down in Texas. I'm sure my wife would attribute that to the oppressive heat.

Neat program, but not quite a way into what I'm looking for.

Thanks, though.


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## mariomike

TXGuard said:
			
		

> Basically what I'm looking for is a path to enlistment, so to speak. This is still purely hypothetical for me, because I'm still in the US military and have at least one year left.



This may help.

The "Wanting To Join Another Military" Thread- Them To Us- Us To Them  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/18494.0.html


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## TXGuard

Thanks. From that thread I picked up this post in particular:

"Generally speaking, you need to be a Canadian Citizen to be enrolled.  Exceptions do happen but normally only in cases where the individual applying possesses prior military service and specialized training from a Commonwealth or NATO military force which makes them a "skilled" applicant and I don't think that would apply in your case."

So I guess the question boils down to what "skilled" means. The US is decidedly not a member of the Commonwealth anymore, but we are a member of NATO, so there's that.

My training is fairly specialized (it involves cubicles, drinking entire pots of coffee at a time, and occasionally something cool happens), so there's that as well. Six years in, made it to Sergeant.

I don't really know. I'm guessing I'm going to have to call up a recruiter and harass him.

Thanks for the link. That helped point me in the right direction, I think.


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## mariomike

TXGuard said:
			
		

> Thanks. From that thread I picked up this post in particular:
> 
> "Generally speaking, you need to be a Canadian Citizen to be enrolled.  Exceptions do happen but normally only in cases where the individual applying possesses prior military service and specialized training from a Commonwealth or NATO military force which makes them a "skilled" applicant and I don't think that would apply in your case."
> 
> So I guess the question boils down to what "skilled" means. The US is decidedly not a member of the Commonwealth anymore, but we are a member of NATO, so there's that.
> 
> My training is fairly specialized (it involves cubicles, drinking entire pots of coffee at a time, and occasionally something cool happens), so there's that as well. Six years in, made it to Sergeant.
> 
> I don't really know. I'm guessing I'm going to have to call up a recruiter and harass him.
> 
> Thanks for the link. That helped point me in the right direction, I think.



Non-Citizen Recruiting
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105605/post-1167762.html#msg1167762

See Reply #5.

How can a landed immigrant (PR card holder) join the forces or related......  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/108227/post-1187426.html#msg1187426

Reply #8.

As always, best to contact Recruiting.


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## TXGuard

Well, that makes it even clearer.

Is there a list of low-density MOCs someplace for me to consult, or is that information normally restricted to recruiters?

You're pretty good at finding this stuff. Sorry if I'm making you do all the leg-work here. I'm pretty terrible at forums.


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## TXGuard

I figure you're right though. Recruiting's going to have to run this one to ground for me in the end.

We'll see what happens. 

Thanks for the help.


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## Quirky

Where do you plan on living in Canada? That will ultimately decide what reservist unit you apply to.


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## TXGuard

I've been leaning towards active duty, actually. I really have no profession outside of government service, but were I to go reserves, probably Ontario. My wife's from Guelph.


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## PuckChaser

TXGuard said:
			
		

> I've been leaning towards active duty, actually. I really have no profession outside of government service, but were I to go reserves, probably Ontario. My wife's from Guelph.



Its actually called the Regular Force here. There are a lot of Army and Air Force trades that work in bases in Ontario for the RegF, which would keep you closer to the wife's family. What's your MOS in the Texas Nat Guard? Could help someone recommend a trade in the CF that's close to what you previously did, unless you want a bigger change.


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## TXGuard

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Its actually called the Regular Force here. There are a lot of Army and Air Force trades that work in bases in Ontario for the RegF, which would keep you closer to the wife's family. What's your MOS in the Texas Nat Guard? Could help someone recommend a trade in the CF that's close to what you previously did, unless you want a bigger change.



Ah, thanks for the correction there. 

I'm a 35-series in the TX Guard, which I think you guys roll up into one MOC (Intel Op.). 

The sticking point there is that I seriously doubt Canada would grant a Top Secret clearance to a permanent resident, so my background may be less relevant that I'd originally thought.


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## TXGuard

My wife and I talked about it a bit more and she figures she might as well complete the US citizenship process before we pull the trigger on a move anywhere, so I'll likely reenlist in the TX Guard for another six years. I'd only be 32 at the completion of that, and still young enough to hack Basic again. 

Hopefully I'll have my degree completed by then, so I can find something to do while I try to get back into uniform if we move up to Canada.


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## Robert0288

Just for your own information if this is correct (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjo2/a/35.-xiW.htm)

Some parallel Canadian trades would be Int OP, comms research, image tech, geo tech, There's probably a couple other that I can't think of at the moment.


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## TXGuard

That's the correct field.

I figured trades like that would be comparable. I appreciate you listing them out. I would probably lean towards Int. Op., as that's the bulk of my experience, but I'm not above branching out into other things. 

Half my time in the military has been spent doing common tasks, and my last job was to be a "diet" Training NCO, so I sort of did whatever needed doing (mostly teaching marksmanship classes or working ranges).


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## Loachman

If you are looking for full-time employment, the Reserve Force is not the place. There are very few full-time Reserve positions.

Regular Force service could see you posted anywhere in this Country, or many places outside of it, for varying periods.


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## TXGuard

I figured as much. Getting a full-time slot in the Reserves or Guard in the US is much the same way. 

As for moving around and being stationed elsewhere in the world, I'm more or less used to that by now. I'm from Texas, but I haven't spent more than a month in Texas in the last three years.


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## Digger343

Hi,

I'm in the Australian army currently, Royal Australian Infantry Corps. I still have just under 2 years service before I can discharge. So this is just an enquiry out of interest for now. I enjoy being a grunt and I could quite happily stay where I am, but I have been thinking about moving to another country for a few years to work, and create a bit of a new adventure for myself.

So a few of my questions for now :

* What posting opportunities are there?( I know the Americans can get posted all over the world. Unlike here where its pretty much just Australia)
*What kind of leave entitlements do you get?
*What is the average pay?
*Can you move off base and live in the surrounding suburbs ? 
*Would my qualifications carry over? (specialist quals, weapons etc)
*What is the cost of living in Canada like?
*What is the training like, do you do a lot of conventional style training or more urban tactics ? ( we do a  crap load of conventional , fighting in the bush, a lot of fire and movement in the scrub and hardly an urban training , which sucks)
* What is the minimum period of service for a grunt?
*I remember reading that there are 3 battalions , what is different about them ? do they specialise in certain areas? 
*Can anyone tell me what hoops I would have to jump through to be able to work in Canada? My mother was born in Canada I don't know if that would help me?
*also probably a stupid question ,  does everyone speak english or would I need to learn French?

Thats it for now , cheers.


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## dimsum

Digger,

Check your personal messages.


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## UnwiseCritic

Posting opportunities for infantry guys are very rare, some higher ups may get posted somewhere for a short duration. 

Leave starts with 20 annual days but there's short days, special days etc added to block leave.

Yes it's very easy to move off base, just a memo and a financial worksheet. 

As for your quals I'm not certain.

Having spent a few months in Australia I can say the cost of living here is slightly cheaper.

YES we still do a TON of conventional training! We have urban training facilities located next to our infantry battalions that we hardly use. This is a sore spot for me... Considering the worlds population is moving into built up areas in greater numbers every year.

3 years for a guy signing up of the street. 2nd term is another 3, then 5,etc. voluntary release is possible after your first contract but it can still be denied.

There's 3 regiments with 3 battalions each. 2 are English speaking. Having been in both now all I will say is same s**t different pile. As much as the each regiment believes they are the best. All that really matters is how professional your direct chain of command is. The locations differ though. Our 3rd battalions in each regiment are light infantry all others are mechanized. Each company pretends that they specialize in something... They don't. Aside from the para role in each light infantry battalion.

The hoops will be tricky as officially Canada doesn't hire non-citizens, however I trained with a soldier from a non-commonwealth country who was not a citizen of Canada. But he had lived here for the past ten years and qualified for citizenship. I know the ADF posts gaps they would like to fill with overseas recruits on their website. I don't think we do the same.

You would not need to learn to speak French.


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## Paladium

Would you be coming here as a permanent resident?  

Some people look to transfer directly into the Canadian Forces - if that's you there are a lot of hurdles to climb - so about 6-8 months before your contract is up I would contact a recruiting centre and explore the possibilities of making a transfer.  It is no slam dunk by any means but as the process works now you would send a record of your qualifications to the recruiting centre who would send them to the HQ who would then fwd them to the Infantry managing authority to see if they want/or are interested in you.


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## AuthenticTshirt

I have seen talk about ex military being hired among other things. 

Is there a way where you can permanently transfer from the CAF to the ADF? If so, what is the criteria? How does one request to do such a thing?


 EDIT: A SUMMARY OF THREAD FOR OTHERS INTERESTED IN THE SAME QUESTION(Updated as of: 07FEB15) 

- It appears that no you CAN NOT permanently transfer from the CAF to the ADF as an NCM.

- The army component of the ADF appears to have accepted CAF mbrs that are officers via the "Overseas Lateral Transfer"(http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentCentre/canIJoin/overseasApplicants/army.aspx) but this is case by case; please note this is different from an OUTCAN posting. Although, I am not sure if still possible since that type of work visa was closed on 01JUL12. (Reference: http://www.immi.gov.au/Visas/Pages/855.aspx)

- Finally, any ex-military personnel may apply to the ADF and appear to be able to receive a "Permanent Residency Visa" through their Overseas Applicant entry plan. (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentCentre/canIJoin/overseasApplicants/airforce.aspx)


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## Blackadder1916

AuthenticTshirt said:
			
		

> Is there a way where you can permanently transfer from the CAF to the ADF? If so, what is the criteria? How does one request to do such a thing?



It's a two step process.

1.  Release from the CF.

2.  Move to Australia and see if they will hire you.

Or do a little research - it took me 3.5 seconds including the typing - to see if you can start any part of the process before releasing from the CF.   http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentcentre/canIJoin/overseasApplicants/


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## AuthenticTshirt

:bowing: Edit: definitely didn't mean to post this emoticon.


			
				Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> It's a two step process.
> 
> 1.  Release from the CF.
> 
> 2.  Move to Australia and see if they will hire you.
> 
> Or do a little research - it took me 3.5 seconds including the typing - to see if you can start any part of the process before releasing from the CF.   http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentcentre/canIJoin/overseasApplicants/





			
				AuthenticTshirt said:
			
		

> *I have seen talk about ex military being hired among other things.*
> 
> Is there a way where you can permanently transfer from the CAF to the ADF? If so, what is the criteria? How does one request to do such a thing?



The first sentence of my original post says that I know they take ex military.

The question is can you transfer from the CAF to ADF? Which implies that one is still in the CAF. 

I have heard that you can transfer in the commonwealth from military to military.

So I am curious if a policy exists that lets a CAF mbr request to be transfered to the ADF(or even to the brits)?

I am guessing this info would be on the milnet and not the public CAF or ADF site.


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## dimsum

AuthenticTshirt said:
			
		

> :bowing:
> The first sentence of my original post says that I know they take ex military.
> 
> The question is can you transfer from the CAF to ADF? Which implies that one is still in the CAF.
> 
> I have heard that you can transfer in the commonwealth from military to military.
> 
> So I am curious if a policy exists that lets a CAF mbr request to be transfered to the ADF(or even to the brits)?
> 
> I am guessing this info would be on the milnet and not the public CAF or ADF site.



If you're talking about permanently transferring to the ADF (as opposed to just a posting overseas) while still remaining in the CAF, no.  What Blackadder said is the only permanent way (Lateral Recruitment) which means you have to leave the CAF.  

Also, what trade/quals you hold will be a big part of the process.  Definitely do your research and make sure the ADF will sponsor your transfer before leaving the CAF.  

Lastly, speaking from personal experience being on an Australian posting right now, make sure that the ADF is actually what you want instead of being confused with the stereotypical "Australian surf lifestyle in the Gold Coast".  Their bases are located in cities in general, but they have just as many middle-of-nowhere training areas as Canada does which you'll most likely spend a lot of time in.


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## Happy Guy

AuthenticTshirt said:
			
		

> :bowing:
> The first sentence of my original post says that I know they take ex military.
> 
> The question is can you transfer from the CAF to ADF? Which implies that one is still in the CAF.
> 
> I have heard that you can transfer in the commonwealth from military to military.
> 
> So I am curious if a policy exists that lets a CAF mbr request to be transfered to the ADF(or even to the brits)?
> 
> I am guessing this info would be on the milnet and not the public CAF or ADF site.


The way you wrote your question is confusing.
To permanently transfer to me means a lateral transfer, as described above, and not what you might be thinking - an exchange position in the ADF, meaning you spent several years in the ADF and your counterpart spends several years in the CAF.  There is no program that allows a CAF member to spend most of their career in the ADF.
I believe that there are several exchanges between the CAD and ADF but these are for Officers.  Dimsum is on one and there are one or two with ADF HQ Canberra or their deployable joint headquarters.


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## blacktriangle

I can confirm (as Dimsum stated already) that AUS takes lateral transfers from Canada, but it dependent on trade, rank, and specific skillsets. This is done to address specific shortfalls in the ADF, and your application will be assessed on a case-by-case basis. This is not to be confused with an OUTCAN posting where you are basically "on loan" to the ADF.


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## InBound

Very interesting. I have applied to the CF for the pilot program and am sick of working crappy 9-5's to pass the time, waiting for "the call"/ the next step in the application process. I know the pilot program is in high demand but as a Canadian citizen I've considered applying to the Commonwealth British and Australian air force. I love my country, but I love the idea of being a Pilot for the next 25 years than working a 12 hour nightshift at Walmart waiting for the call, if it means I serve for another country. Any thoughts?


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## Blackadder1916

InBound said:
			
		

> . . .as a Canadian citizen I've considered applying to the Commonwealth British and Australian air force.  . . .  Any thoughts?



They don't want you.

http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentcentre/canIJoin/overseasApplicants/


> Non-Australian Citizen or Non-Permanent Resident without military experience
> 
> Currently there is no avenue of entry available for you to apply to join the Australian Defence Force. Further information in relation to applying for permanent residency can be found by accessing the Australian Government Department of Immigration and Citizenship website at www.citizenship.gov.au.



https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/roles/aircrew/pilot/


> Job requirements
> 
> Nationality
> To be a pilot an applicant needs be one of the following:
> British Citizen
> British National
> British Dual
> 
> Residency
> To meet RAF residency requirements, you should have been a UK Resident for a minimum of five years immediately preceding application, and have spent no more than 28 days per year outside the UK within those five years.
> UK residents of less than five years, or those who have spent more than 28 days per year outside the UK will require more eligibility checks. If this is you, call us for further advice.
> 
> Age:
> •17.5 – 25


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## dimsum

InBound said:
			
		

> Very interesting. I have applied to the CF for the pilot program and am sick of working crappy 9-5's to pass the time, waiting for "the call"/ the next step in the application process. I know the pilot program is in high demand but as a Canadian citizen I've considered applying to the Commonwealth British and Australian air force. I love my country, but I love the idea of being a Pilot for the next 25 years than working a 12 hour nightshift at Walmart waiting for the call, if it means I serve for another country. Any thoughts?



Nevermind - Blackadder beat me to the punch.


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## Humphrey Bogart

You can always join the French Foreign a Legion though and fly a mop and broom for a living  ;D


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## hunt7120

Hi Gents I'm looking for some advice, I'm currently a Sgt in the British Army and I'm looking to move over to Canada and settle there for the rest of my life, but also wanting to join the CA, is it possible to transfer?


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## DAA

hunt7120 said:
			
		

> Hi Gents I'm looking for some advice, I'm currently a Sgt in the British Army and I'm looking to move over to Canada and settle there for the rest of my life, but also wanting to join the CA, is it possible to transfer?



Probably not, as you need to already be a Canadian Citizen just to apply.

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#who


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## daftandbarmy

hunt7120 said:
			
		

> Hi Gents I'm looking for some advice, I'm currently a Sgt in the British Army and I'm looking to move over to Canada and settle there for the rest of my life, but also wanting to join the CA, is it possible to transfer?



You can join the RCMP with PR status, but you have to have lived in Canada for 10 years 

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/qualifications-and-requirements

Depending on any specializations you have, they may wave that so check.


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## Infantry16

Hey I'm a Canadian and I want to join the us marine corps and wandering if I can join the corps as a Canadian or do I need to be a us citizen? Thanks


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## brihard

Infantry16 said:
			
		

> Hey I'm a Canadian and I want to join the us marine corps and wandering if I can join the corps as a Canadian or do I need to be a us citizen? Thanks



You have to be a legal resident of the US. I suggest googling it, you'll find the USMC recruiting website in short order and can find out who to contact.


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## GAP

You have to immigrate to the US with the USMC as your sponsor. One of my sons checked it out a good number of years ago....they (USMC) were not interested at that time, maybe they are now. 

BTW....that is how I enlisted in the MC...but there was a little war going on at the time.... ;D


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## mariomike

Infantry16 said:
			
		

> I'm a Canadian and I want to join the us marine corps and wandering if I can join the corps as a Canadian or do I need to be a us citizen?





> "Your Questions About Joining The Marine Corps Answered"
> https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/marine-corps-recruiting-faqs.html
> What are the qualifications to join the Marine Corps?
> 
> The following are the basic requirements for joining. You must:
> •To enlist, you must be a U.S. citizen or a resident alien.


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