# Black Betty sleeping pad



## kyleg (3 Mar 2006)

Hey guys,
Does anyone know where I could find one of the old issue sleeping pads? It's the black one that looks a bit like a camping air mattress. I've checked around in the surplus stores here in Montreal, but none of them have it.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## Lerch (3 Mar 2006)

You mean the foam one or the self-inflating?


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## TCBF (3 Mar 2006)

I think he means "Matress, pneumatic."  The air matress.  The rubber one that finally got so expensive to produce, Therma-rests became cheaper, at which point the Army bought us Therma-rests.

Tom


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## kyleg (3 Mar 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> I think he means "Matress, pneumatic."  The air matress.  The rubber one that finally got so expensive to produce, Therma-rests became cheaper, at which point the Army bought us Therma-rests.



That's the one.


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## Scoobie Newbie (5 Mar 2006)

EBay or a buddy is your best bet.


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## armyvern (5 Mar 2006)

Black Betty's will occasionaly become available at surplus stores. We still have a few returned at Clothing Stores during release appointments for our 'older' members. The look on the young Pte's faces are priceless as they wonder what it is.

Had a pair of windpants come back last month during a release appointment that the staff were unsure of because of the flimsy material...I checked the tag and the date of manufacture was 1959. The Major returning them had a great laugh as did I because I could still even read the tag it was that unfaded, unlike his hair colour he noted! It's a great place to bring back old memories that front counter!!


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## Sig_Des (5 Mar 2006)

Our unit stores still hold quite a few of the black betty's, and there's always a scramble to get them on TI when you go out on a winter Ex..


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## my72jeep (5 Mar 2006)

I have 25 of them in a box in my field kit lockup. keep them for extended trips where I'm static for a bit or if a beach is close by.
And yes armyvern I still have my issue one from the 80's along with my old wind pants and artic slippers.


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## kyleg (5 Mar 2006)

25?! Let me guess, you sleep on all 25, and if there's a pebble under the bottom one it feels like you're sleeping on a bowling ball 

Cheers,
Pinky


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## Trinity (5 Mar 2006)

Try 

www.sgtbilkos.ca

I know he had some at one point
Email him or pm him.. he's on this site (sgtbiko)


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## kyleg (5 Mar 2006)

Thanks for that Trinity, but I may have one coming from another member of the forum.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## Franko (5 Mar 2006)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> I have 25 of them in a box in my field kit lockup. keep them for extended trips where I'm static for a bit or if a beach is close by.
> And yes armyvern I still have my issue one from the 80's along with my old wind pants and artic slippers.



Care to let one go? Mine burst about 12 years ago and they only replaced it for the new POS....

I still have the arctic slippers....zebra mitts with green leather covers....FN C1 mag pouches, frog....oh the list goes on and on....

Regards


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## RangerRay (5 Mar 2006)

The old Rubber Molly?  Why would you want one of those?  They weigh a ton and I always found them uncomfortable.  Not to mention that inflating them was a good way of attracting a sniper's attention.


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## Trinity (5 Mar 2006)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> Not to mention that inflating them was a good way of attracting a sniper's attention.



 ??? ??? ???

Really, I'm not going to touch that one!  I'm trying to be good now!


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## TCBF (5 Mar 2006)

"The Major returning them had a great laugh as did I because I could still even read the tag it was that unfaded, unlike his hair colour he noted! It's a great place to bring back old memories that front counter!!"

- Memory lane.  I have rucksack kit lists going back a few decades, and I am amazed at how simple, light, non-bulky, cheap , and FEW were the items in our Rucksack, Universal, C2 (what is now known erroniously as thr '64 pattern ruck) and/or our Cargo Pack 1964 (the one with the 'tump line').

Black Betty's (Mattress, Pneumatic):  good for NOT feeling rocks underneath you.  Good for keeping you off the snow.  Good for rafting.  Bad for noise of inflation - and time to inflate.  Bad for having 15 mph air currents in the bellows: in extreme cold, the air mattress turns into a 'heat sink', or actually an external body inter-cooler.  Here is how it works:  Your body trunk warms the air under you.  The warm air you just made then rotates down the matress and the cold air under your feet rotates up to be warmed by your body. this sucking of heat out of you continues for the entire 96 minutes you get to actually sleep on your air mattress that night...

On the other hand, if you are in a hurry to leave (like, always?) just pull the plug, unlike the Therma-rest.

I still own three.  And a 64 cargo pack.  And a C2 Ruck, old windpants, X1951 fishnet undershirt, and the Cdn Pattern wool shirt, battledress, button stick, Case Ammunition Magazine 1964 (C2 Bra), etc.

I DO miss not keeping the khaki greatcoat, and passing up the 1972 offer to the the sheepskin jackets at 15 bucks each.  They were paying me about $7.35 a day at the time, so the money I made during the weekend 3.5 inch Rocket Launcher shoot would have been spent all on a coat I THOUGHT I would never use...

Oh well.

Tom


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## geo (5 Mar 2006)

TCBF - don't remember my sleep being limited to 96 minutes at a crack BUT
what I do remember about these old mattresses was their bad habbit of popping their cork in the middle of the night...
Tent full of guys having a good sleep when, all of a sudden, Pop! followed by a Sssssssss. Tent full of guys rocking about, trying to figure out if it was their mattress ....and then the expletive from one poor sould who had to climb out of his bag to fix the problem.


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## TCBF (5 Mar 2006)

We could almost start a new thread called "Arctic Tent Sories", but to me, the most unforgetable stories were the tent fires. After that - the 'Green Slug Wars', where one guy getting up would step on another guy, maybe drop his 'arctic turnip', and this would escalate to all five to ten men  realeaseing their grudges against each other as best as they could without getting out of the bags.


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## my72jeep (5 Mar 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> We could almost start a new thread called "Arctic Tent Sories", but to me, the most unforgetable stories were the tent fires.


.
Funny you should say tent fires the best artic tent story I have is this. I was in my tent changing after a patrol when I look into the tent across the way, through the open door I see a bud pumping a lantern, then I see him burst into flames (small fuel leak) then the lantern flies thought the door folowed by a flaming troop to the chants of STOP DROP AND ROLL, STOP DROP AND ROLL by the rest of the platoon. In the end he was lucky all it cost us was one fleece top and one lantern globe.


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## geo (5 Mar 2006)

always hang a knife from tent pole. 
best memorable event in winter warfare was lying in my bag and watching "44 Ford" climb out of the bag and get a sudden case of the shivers........... Priceless :warstory:

but you had to be there


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## kyleg (5 Mar 2006)

I don't get it ???


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## Cpl.Banks (6 Mar 2006)

We still get issued those for camp and ftx's...without any corks of course. Funniest thing to watch a new troppie try and figure out what it is and how to use it.  ;D Anyways I have not had the occasion to try the "new" ones, out of sheer curiosity how are they comared to the older ones?
G'Day


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## deh (6 Mar 2006)

gravyboat said:
			
		

> Maybe this will suit your needs.  http://www.bigagnes.com/str_pads.php?id=ia The Big Agnes pads have been getting lots of praise in the mountaneering/backcountry circles.  I'm thinking about replacing my crusty old ridgerest with one.



+1 for the big Agnes air core

Mine served me very well up on James Bay for Polar Strike I.  Our night out in our improvised shelter it was just me with my big Agnes two sleeping bags and my fleece liner and I was just fine naked as the day I was born.  My bivy bag was literally freezing where my breath hit it but I had no problems with the ground cold.  We did it with no fire and no stove or anything and the temperatures were getting down around -30 ish.  It gave me great faith in our sleeping bags, they really are good to go even some 55 years after they were designed.  We slept on pine boughs and what not and I had no durability problems with rips or tears (patch kit included) and it folds up into something that fits into your pants cargo pocket with room to spare.  So for bumming around the biv site or literally sleeping under the stars in the frozen 7th circle of hell I highly reccomend it.  The one thing however is the cost.  It certainly is not cheap so if you aren't into winter camping or the like I'd probably go with what is issued.  Now if it would get back from the ex I can get in one more good go at the ice fishing hut before the season ends ...


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## kyleg (6 Mar 2006)

No sh*t, I was on Polar Strike too. Bloody cold that last night, eh? I don't know how you guys did it without a stove, we had the coleman plus a WhisperLite going all night.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## wookie11 (6 Mar 2006)

I heard from my instructor who's a history buff mbdr who says that it is still being issued for some 'lucky' recruits. I don't know what you like about it, but I like my self inflating mattress better.


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## kyleg (6 Mar 2006)

Have you ever used black betty? Have you used your thermarest enough in the past 4 months to know its pros and cons? "Self-inflating?" Hardly. More like "self-barely-pulls-in-any-air."


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## my72jeep (6 Mar 2006)

Om flat rockless ground the self inflatable is great but back home in NFLD I was allways happy to have a Betty rocks were not an issue. I did do a 6 day 62km trip along the lake Superior Coast and was thankfull for the light therma rest. I've used both over the last 23 years and in my humble opinion it's 6 of one haft dozen of the other.


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## DG-41 (6 Mar 2006)

My 9Domestic bought me a 21st century Black Betty for Xmas. It's about the weight of the Thermorest, the storage bag acts as the inflation pump (and it inflates way faster than than the original did) and it has a down pad on it that helps insulate the air chamber so you don't get the intercooler effect.

I think it's made by Mountain Equipment Corporation.

I haven't used it yet, but she took it on winter indoc and reported satisfactory results.

DG


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## kyleg (6 Mar 2006)

It's Mountain Equipment Co-op  Don't let any of the staff hear you say corporation ;D

I've heard of the one you're talking about, but the price is a bit of a turn off for me. My thermarest works, so I feel no need to blow 2 day's salary on a sleeping pad. But if I can get a black betty for cheap, why not try it out?

Cheers,
Pinky


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## TCBF (6 Mar 2006)

"I did do a 6 day 62km trip along the lake Superior Coast ..."

Pukasksaw Park?  A great place.  A bunch of us hiked part of it in 1985 when it opened.  We did not get as far as we wanted, due to the 'apres walk' one evening getting out of hand.  Somewhere, there is a photo taken in broad daylight of an unconscious me lying on the sandy banks of the White River with an empty bottle of Jameson...  but, enough of that.

 "I've used both over the last 23 years and in my humble opinion it's 6 of one haft dozen of the other."

- Yup.

Tom


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## my72jeep (6 Mar 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> "I did do a 6 day 62km trip along the lake Superior Coast ..."
> 
> Pukasksaw Park?  A great place.  A bunch of us hiked part of it in 1985 when it opened.  We did not get as far as we wanted, due to the 'apres walk' one evening getting out of hand.  Somewhere, there is a photo taken in broad daylight of an unconscious me lying on the sandy banks of the White River with an empty bottle of Jameson...  but, enough of that.
> 
> ...



Yep thats it I took the boat to the end and hiked back.


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## Cliffy433 (11 Mar 2006)

I've used Therma-craps civ side... I only got in in '98 and was issued a Black Betty... 

I'll never give it back.  Ever.

tlm.


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## geo (11 Mar 2006)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> I don't get it ???


'

The said Capt Ford had a pair of 44s..... she also had a gun

(You'll figure it out)


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## kyleg (12 Mar 2006)

Ok, I'll probably take some flak for this, but what's a "44?" I'm still not getting it :-[


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## geo (12 Mar 2006)

ahem..... think 
( measurement that isn't the waisline and isn't the hips)....


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## NATO Boy (12 Mar 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> '
> 
> The said Capt Ford had a pair of 44s..... she also had a gun
> 
> (You'll figure it out)



 :rofl:


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## kyleg (12 Mar 2006)

OOOHHHHHH!!! Wow do *I* feel like a moron... lol.


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## geo (12 Mar 2006)

Ayup!


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## chrisf (12 Mar 2006)

C/ M.Bdr. Banks said:
			
		

> We still get issued those for camp and ftx's...without any corks of course.



A lighter fits in the fill tube rather nicely.


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## TCBF (13 Mar 2006)

The plugs are gone because the CFRS Corwallis instructors cut the 'cups' off them, and used them as 'feet' for the ends of their pace sticks when practicing on tile or polished concrete for the next pace stick competition.

And for anyone who cares, as of 3 Apr 96: 8465-21-107-4862 Mattress Pneumatic, B class, $121.65


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## Cliffy433 (15 Mar 2006)

If you use your plug for Betty, just use your thimble.  Fits perfect!

tlm.


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## geo (15 Mar 2006)

errr.... thimble...... Right!


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## TCBF (16 Mar 2006)

The ones that don't have holes in them.

 ;D

Tom


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## ARMY ISSUE (16 Mar 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> And for anyone who cares, as of 3 Apr 96: 8465-21-107-4862 Mattress Pneumatic, B class, $121.65


That would be the Self inflating ones from Mustang in BC. The rubber (Black Betty) would not draw such a considerable cost. The betty's are still coming out of the system and I have shipped them to California and Northern Quebec. They also make great Sleds for the sand dunes in the Pinery Provincial Park,  :rage:after the third night of waking up deflated.
Cheers


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## geo (16 Mar 2006)

Hmmm.... felt let down, did you?


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## Danjanou (16 Mar 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Hmmm.... felt let down, did you?




 :tsktsk: 2 minute penalty for bad puns.

The Betty was also great for staircase toboggan runs IIRC.


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## geo (16 Mar 2006)

Doh!
But they left the door wiiiide open!
what is a fella to do?


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## TCBF (17 Mar 2006)

"That would be the Self inflating ones from Mustang in BC."

- I was pretty sure I got the right NSN, but I will check tomorrow.

I know they were over $100 in 1986.


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## kyleg (17 Mar 2006)

Thanks for making me feel young TCBF. I was born in 86 :nana:


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## TCBF (17 Mar 2006)

What month?


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## kyleg (17 Mar 2006)

October, why?


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## TCBF (17 Mar 2006)

October... I had just been posted from CFRS Cornwallis back to 1Tp Recce Sqn 8CH(PL) in CFB Petawawa in Sep 86.  Come Oct, we were in and out of the field all of the time, training for march and shoot competition, training for the winter ex in Frobisher in Jan, doing SA ranges, and LOTS of PT.

Good times.



Tom


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## Sig_Des (17 Mar 2006)

TCBF said:
			
		

> October... I had just been posted from CFRS Cornwallis back to 1Tp Recce Sqn 8CH(PL) in CFB Petawawa in Sep 86.  Come Oct, we were in and out of the field all of the time, training for march and shoot competition, training for the winter ex in Frobisher in Jan, doing SA ranges, and LOTS of PT.
> 
> Good times.
> 
> ...




I love hearing my old Sgts and Wo's talking about this or that ex in Germany or wherever "back in 86".....and I just look at them and say...."I was 2"

Priceless


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## HItorMiss (17 Mar 2006)

DES

PM inbound


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## CommonSenseNCO (18 Mar 2006)

*Love* that  piece of kit. I actually use both of them. The somewhat-self-inflating air mattress  in the summer or when I'm walking somewhere, and the rubber lady when it's -30C or below. I have a  couple of times  used it to sleep on t he ground at below -30 without a tent and I was quite impressed with it.  I have a repair kit gun taped to it.  A lot of people dont' know that you can use the case of the thermarest to inflate it though.


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