# Why are Canadian soldiers not allowed to attack the enemy?



## Olosolo (3 Feb 2004)

Simply but important.   

Why are Canadian soldiers not allowed to attack the enemy if their being attacked?   

If you did not know, Canadians are not allowed to attack others, we have to die and let them kill us first.


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## D-n-A (3 Feb 2004)

If Canadians arent allowed to fire at the enemy, how did the Canadians snipers in Afghanistan kill Taliban/Al-Qauda fighters. And how did members of the 2PPCLI battle group that were in the Medak Pocket kill atleast 27 croatian troops.


Afghanistan info
 http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/KillingShot_2430Metres.asp 


Medak Pocket info
 http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/2ppcli/history/medak_e.htm


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## Ex-Dragoon (3 Feb 2004)

When we were in the Gulf doing boardings we always had the right to self defence and that was up to and including the use of lethal force depending on the situation of course.


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## Evan (3 Feb 2004)

"Why are Canadian soldiers not allowed to attack the enemy if their being attacked? ",

if there being attacked, wouldnt they be busy trying to defend them selves, offending an offense is costly in lives, maybe what u mean is counter attacking after an attack.


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## Olosolo (3 Feb 2004)

Thank you D-n-A and Ex-Dragoon for the info.  My friend was in the army til he quit because he was not allowed to help his friend who was killed by enemies who pitched forked him to death.  He said to me he wasn‘t allowed to kill the attackers to help his friend because he was not allowed to kill the enemy.


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## Padraig OCinnead (3 Feb 2004)

OloSolo,

Where did you get the info about Cdn soldiers not firing if fired upon? And as for your morons post
I quote from your post
"if their being attacked"
"Is everyone on these forums complete morons"
With grammar like this you may not want to throw stones. Just how many soldiers who died do you know?
ROEs state above all the inherent right of self defence as paramount in ops overseas. Depending on mission prerequisites defence of others or equipment may also involve up to and including deadly force.


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## D-n-A (3 Feb 2004)

OloSolo, where and when did this happen?

Canadian Soldiers are allowed to defend themselves if being attacked.


I‘m thinking your friend made this up.


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## meni0n (3 Feb 2004)

So how many soldiers did you know, since you‘re 22 years old and have not been in the military yet?


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## Padraig OCinnead (3 Feb 2004)

But what I don‘t get is how someone gets pitchforked to death.


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## meni0n (3 Feb 2004)

And where..


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## Foxhound (3 Feb 2004)

Sorry, OloSolo.  I think you are asking about Rules of Engagement or ROE‘s.  There are different ROE‘s for different roles that a given unit may be tasked to perform.  For instance, the ROE‘s are very dramatically different between Aid to Civil Power operations such as riot control or providing security for a summit and an operation such as we are now facing in Afghanistan.

You have likely heard of ROE‘s in connection with our many peacekeeping duties.  In the case of peacekeeping, we don‘t HAVE any enemies around.  We are standing BETWEEN two enemies who would like very much to be left alone to get on with their being enemies to each other and sometimes they‘ll try to pot a few Canucks.

That having been said, a very important part of ROE‘s is the part which says that you may shoot if your life or the lives of those you are charged with protecting is in imminent danger.  In other words, you always have the right to self-defence.  If some CF soldier had been pitchforked to death, I‘m sure it would have made the news.

D.D.C.O.S.U.& F.


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (3 Feb 2004)

I smell lies.  I think just about any Canadian soldier would throw the ROE out the window if he saw his buddy being pitchforked to death...if that really happened.


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## Padraig OCinnead (3 Feb 2004)

True but give him the benefit of doubt. Afterall it‘s not every day that Canadian soldiers are beset by cunning pitchfork wielding enemies. I thought our budget cuts were bad but to be issued pitchforks takes the cake.


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## L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan (3 Feb 2004)

You mean you got a pitchfork?  All I was issued was a spatula and a picture of a C6 to show the enemy what I‘d have if we had a bigger budget.


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## Evan (3 Feb 2004)

lol, i have heard about some american soildiers hacked to death on the korean dmz by an axe,


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## Evan (3 Feb 2004)

The Operation Paul Bunyan (August 21, 1976)

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"The Axe Murder - The American Version:
On 18 August 1976 a Korean work force was escorted by CPT Bonifas and 1LT Barrett to trim the large poplar tree. The UNC force on 18 August 1976 consisted of the two US officers, an Republic of Korea officer and eight UNC guards escorting the workforce. The Korean People‘s Army from the North told them to cease activity. When the commanding officer, Captain Bonifas, ordered work to resume, thirty North Korean soldiers who silently watched were ordered "mikun-nom chu ki cha" ["kill the US soldiers"]. 
The North Koreans, armed with the work detail‘s axes and metal picks, outnumbered the soldiers. CPT Bonifas was the first killed, attacked from behind by five. A Corporal saw the attack from a nearby three-story pagoda and recorded the murders with a movie camera. The attack ended as soon as it began, with the two US officers were killed and the nine guards UNC guards injured. 

After a mobilization on both sides, and despite Henry Kissinger‘s apparent desire to bomb the North, President Ford ultimately decided the appropriate response would be to chop down the tree. On the morning of 21 August 1976 a joint mission involving ROK and UN-supported American troops felled the tree. The poplar tree was removed entirely and a small monument was placed with the names of those killed and injured. Under OPERATION PAUL BUNYAN this action was backed up by an armed platoon, 27 helicopters, and a number of B-52 bombers fying along the DMZ. The North Koreans held their fire, and within an hour the operation was complete."


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## Infanteer (3 Feb 2004)

Should have picked this one up earlier.

OLOSOLO, this is a warning.  You better be prepared to provide evidence next time you provide a ridiculous and blatently wrong statement.  Your posts are tainted with lies and misconceptions about operational realities.

As well, fill out your profile, no one knows who the **** you are to be making these kinds of claims.


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## Franko (3 Feb 2004)

I smell something funny...like poo

The ROEs are a guide and are also orders. If I saw my buddy being pitchforked I know what I‘d do and NOTHING would stop me.

As for this incident...I‘ve been in a while and NEVER heard this one before.   

Has anyone else?

Regards


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## Olosolo (3 Feb 2004)

Infanteer:

I am not making them I am stating what my friend said which happened to his friend.  I am merely the provider of the info.  So don‘t bitch to me and say such doltish responses.  Plus I well fill out my profile when I am good and ready. 

p.s
A tip for next time you fill out a reply, read over your reply, 
"know one knows"  it is "no one knows"
Just helping you out, not making fun of you.


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## Ex-Dragoon (3 Feb 2004)

Olosolo with that kind of attitude towards a moderator I don‘t think you will be around too long. Don‘t let the door hot you on the way out.


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## Franko (3 Feb 2004)

Give it up OloSolo....unless you provide actual proof and not a story you can‘t back up because, in this case, it‘s 3rd hand.

This will continue unabated until a moderator steps in.

Just giving friendly advise   

Regards


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## portcullisguy (3 Feb 2004)

OloSolo... what makes you think this scenario you speak of, this soldier being pitchforked to death, has actually happened?

If you did not see it, you would do well not to state it as though it is a fact.

A better approach from the beginning may have been to ask, "What are the rules of engagement that Canadian soliders generally have, and can they defend themselves even when on peacekeeping missions?"

I find the better informed the question, the better informed the answer.

Ask stupid questions, or make nonsensical statements, and you will get a predictable result.


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## combat_medic (3 Feb 2004)

OloSolo: This is your last warning about this thread. You‘ve already started backtalking the moderators on this forum (Infanteer being one of them). You had better start providing some real, legitimate, documented proof of these allegations, or stop talking about them altogether. In the meantime, you might want to sit back and read for a while without commenting. Once you feel you have some genuine personal knowledge or experience to contribute, by all means do so. Heresay does not count, as you may have noticed.

Oh, and don‘t go picking apart other people‘s spelling and grammar until yours has improved considerably.

"Kettle, this is Pot. Black, over."


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## btk_joker (3 Feb 2004)

I must agree with Infanteer; Olo-Solo, you don‘t appear to know the complete details or hold any accurate information. Perhaps you should go re-educate yourself.

J. Lightfoot


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