# Gen(Retired) Jimmy Cox - Advisor (?) to JTFA Commander



## Evocatus (3 Oct 2016)

Happened via a link, to trip over Mr Cox's open FB profile...  

'We' Canadian taxpayers apparently employed/paid, Mr Cox in some capacity, to travel to Kandahar, and by design/purpose or by happenstance, Jim ended up in conv with Commander JTFA, verbosing his theories on winning the war and stabilizing the region.

Jus saying...


----------



## OldSolduer (3 Oct 2016)

A consultant no doubt. Perhaps some people closer to the inner circle can enlighten us.....


----------



## jollyjacktar (3 Oct 2016)

Everybody better get their socks sorted out then... or shit will hit the fan.  :nod:


----------



## Edward Campbell (3 Oct 2016)

I'm prejudiced ... I know both guys in the pictures, friend may be slightly too strong a word, colleague certainly is not.

A lot of people with a whole helluva lot fewer clues than Jim Cox went to Afghanistan on the public's dime and bent the ears of all and sundry, now and again about things that some of the visiting "experts" actually understood. I have no idea how BGen (ret'd) Cox thought we might win the war. It appears to me, based on the outcomes, that few, if any, of the serving generals, diplomats and very senior officials from 20+ allied countries who were there for a decade and more had any useful ideas about how to win that war, either.


----------



## Ostrozac (3 Oct 2016)

BGen Thompson wasn't Commander JTFA, he was Commander JTF-Afg.  JTFA was/is a Canada Command/CJOC domestic operations formation headquartered in Halifax.

Ah, how we love our acronym soups.


----------



## Lightguns (6 Oct 2016)

Hopefully he didn't fall in any trenches while he was there.  Excellent BGen a little preoccupied with the colour of the APCs and underwear by but.......  This chest thumping is not out of line.  I wonder if he won the war not......


----------



## Lightguns (6 Oct 2016)

LOL, his facebook security is nil.  And don't park in front of his house, he calls the cops on ya and takes pictures!


----------



## medicineman (6 Oct 2016)

Why, oh why, did I wander into this thread...started having flashbacks to when he was GOC 1CMBG.

Wonder how long his pontifications took to get out...he could still be there trying to explain his first point for all we know.

MM


----------



## daftandbarmy (6 Oct 2016)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> LOL, his facebook security is nil.  And don't park in front of his house, he calls the cops on ya and takes pictures!



Did they catch you?


----------



## ueo (6 Oct 2016)

Flash backs go even further to when he was a Coy Comd with a CSM having a similar speech afflictions. Q&A at O Gps tended to go on a bit. [lol:


----------



## Happy Guy (6 Oct 2016)

I keep missing him, but I keep hearing stories about him from people who claimed to be there or third hand accounts.

Before I got to the Bn, my predecessor recounted his winter ex when then LCol Cox was CO and he made everyone dig trenches in Shilo.  The guys came down with poison ivy during winter time.  When he became Comd 1 CMBG, I missed the infamous bde pde where he ranted against soldiers wearing grey socks with mismatching colours and green T shirts with cut off sleeves.  I also missed meeting him again when he was appointed Inspector General for LFC.  I was told that he jumping out from behind plants in the lobby of 101 Colonel By to correct Army personnel's dress and haircuts, and asking people if they saw anything suspicious.
He was, still is a character to be reckoned with.


----------



## a_majoor (7 Oct 2016)

I actually received an email from him directly when I was working in 31 CBGHQ. Why it was addressed to me is a mystery (it had nothing to do with the branch I was working in nor any related topic), so I forwarded it to the Brigade Adjt. While that officer never (to my knowledge) worked for or with Gen Cox (ret), they immediately treated the message like toxic waste. Obviously his reputation was still well known throughout the forces in the early 2000's.


----------



## PPCLI Guy (7 Oct 2016)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> LOL, his facebook security is nil.  !



Maybe he thought that he would be treated with at least a modicum of respect by fellow military professionals.

Clearly he was wrong.


----------



## Lightguns (7 Oct 2016)

Ohhh come on, what do you say when you talk about old times?  You sit around and remember the funny crap or "I remember him, very inefficient but I respect him".  I remember Pte Frost, a nervous redhead who was so scared of blowing himself up with the grenade he dropped it in the bay.  Sgt Blades laid in him so much he stuttered for the rest of course.  Or the time MCPL Peddridge made us marked time in 3 foot deep mud puddle while sat on the bank smoking just for his amusement.  Generals don't a special card just cause they were generals.  He did stupid stuff and we remember and swap stories.  Heck, I will even laugh at myself.  I remember a time as new arty officer that I got so sleepy that the GPO pointed out to me that my compass skills sucked because I had 3 guns pointed one direction and 1 gun pointing in another direction.  Stupid stuff that happens, all very funny now.  

Jimmy Cox will always be a source of amusement to those you have worked with, for and under him.  As you are to some old soldiers you there.  As I am and everyone on this forum is to someone.  We call war stories and they been telling them since two cavemen join another to steal chicks from two caves over.


----------



## PPCLI Guy (7 Oct 2016)

The difference, of course, being that you have named names, while remaining anonymous yourself.


----------



## ueo (7 Oct 2016)

Ain't that the truth.


----------



## Blackadder1916 (7 Oct 2016)

Thucydides said:
			
		

> . . .  they immediately treated the message like toxic waste. Obviously his reputation was still well known throughout the forces in the early 2000's.



While BGen Cox may have had his idiosyncrasies, some of the extremes of his antics and reputation have likely been exaggerated in the retelling (and I'm probably as guilty of that as any other on this means).  Prior to being posted to 1 CMBG when he was the Bde Comd, my knowledge of him was limited to tales (taken with a grain of salt) from former phase training coursemates who had the "luck" in getting him as their first bn CO - yes, I heard the stories of TQ4 courses (e.g. Dvr Wheeled and MG) having to dig in and live in trenches in Shilo during the winter.  But those stories were tempered by seeing him several times in the later 1980s on the local Ottawa public access channel (in uniform) discussing the challenges of having a speech impediment and some measures that could be taken to overcome it and be successful.  If I remember correctly, those appearances were well regarded and were publically acknowledged by our leadership as reflecting positively on the CF.

But yes, he did have a reputation for some unique training philosophies.  While most of us would say that "any fool can be uncomfortable" when referring to living and training in the field, Gen Cox apparently believed in a different track - living in the field during training exactly as we would during combat operations, in other words, "train as you fight".  It was somewhat at odds with the mindset of most of  the army of the day.  The execution of that concept was not always successful (nor, IMO, necessarily a good idea in all instances), but that was not always the general's fault.  However, I have seen similar suggestions for Cdn Army training from members in these forums.  I guess going to a shooting war makes a difference.

As for his stammer, yes, it was noticeable.  And we made jokes about it (behind his back).  But I don't recall any occasion when it interfered with him getting his point across, either in an O Gp or (in the circumstance when I most closely interacted with him) during the preparation and presentation of a multi-presenter lecture on CF operations to a hall full of poli sci students at the UofC.

Okay, he can still be the go to standard for jokes about socks and potted plants (I didn't see either of those incidents attributed to him, though I do recall a GOC's inspection in the 1970s when the Bde RSM checked for the old green boxers) but to consider him as "toxic" is probably a bit extreme.  He wasn't the most likeable general that was ever in my chain of command, but he certainly wasn't the worst.  While he wouldn't have been my first choice of a commander to go to war with, he was a lot better than some others.


----------



## ballz (7 Oct 2016)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> Maybe he thought that he would be treated with at least a modicum of respect by fellow military professionals.
> 
> Clearly he was wrong.



And foolish if he ever thought that... What my subordinates say about me behind my back is none of my business. I much prefer to have gained rapport rather than to rely on convention to protect me from the judgement of my subordinates. They have every right to judge my leadership how they see it.

I don't know Mr. Cox and don't pay much credence to reputations (they are far too often inaccurate from my experience), but a higher rank comes with a brighter spotlight shining on it for good reason.


----------



## ballz (7 Oct 2016)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> But yes, he did have a reputation for some unique training philosophies.  While most of us would say that "any fool can be uncomfortable" when referring to living and training in the field, Gen Cox apparently believed in a different track - living in the field during training exactly as we would during combat operations, in other words, "train as you fight".  It was somewhat at odds with the mindset of most of  the army of the day.  The execution of that concept was not always successful (nor, IMO, necessarily a good idea in all instances), but that was not always the general's fault.  However, I have seen similar suggestions for Cdn Army training from members in these forums.  I guess going to a shooting war makes a difference.



Like I said, reputations are poor evidence to judge someone on. Sounds like the exact same "unique training philosophies" that his son possesses, whom I worked for, and while he could be a very frustrating person to work for due to his certain nuances / idiosyncrasies, he was a long ways off from being weak.


----------



## jollyjacktar (7 Oct 2016)

When "Jimmy" hit the Brigade, it was a bit of a shock as he was 180 deg. from his predecessor who was of the mantra that if it makes you more comfortable in the field, go for it.

Wainwright became more "interesting" shall we say after his arrival.  He was indeed of a mindset  that was "train as you fight"  and "the more you sweat in training, the less you'll bleed in combat" school of thought.  I will give him this, he lived exactly the same way he demanded we live.  I respect that.


----------



## medicineman (7 Oct 2016)

2 commanders prior to him was Brian Vernon, who had some similar philosophies about being comfortable with being uncomfortable - if temps were above "x" degrees C, tarps were off the Iltis's and such...and he cared very much about how people performed in the field.  I also found him very personable - had many occasions to discuss my job with him at various stages of the beginning of my career.  BGen Ashton followed him - a little different, as we'd do a full up GOC's inspection, mustered in front of our vehicles and kit, followed by a full on unit level deployment...Gen Vernon wandered about to chat with us in the hangar for GOC's (at least at 1 Fd Amb - he was very concerned about how we functioned in the field though, not what we looked like).  I'd also had a few chats with Gen Ashton about things...like why none of us had bayonets on our webbing as a for instance.  I actually remember my CO visibly blanching when I noted that while there were many in the QM, we weren't issued them.  When pressed, I let the CO off the hook by saying many thought of them as offensive weapons, so we weren't issued them.  Then came BGen Cox...and his "hardness training" as some folks called it.  I think that if you can make it through a few years in field units with the crap we were issued in the 80's and 90's to keep us allegedly protected from the elements, you were reasonably mentally and physically resilient.  I actually enjoyed some of our exercises, since we just went out to Wainwright or Sarcee, cammed up as we hit the gates, and trained for a week or two straight then went home, since those were when budgets were at a premium.  We were required to shoot to qualify pretty much monthly/quarterly at one point IIRC - again, something useful and important given the operational tempo we had in the early/mid 90's.  Personally, the man never gave me a second glance, much less spoke to me, in the numerous times we'd crossed paths - I'm 6'2" and he is of a height where I'm sure he'd add in the extra 1/8" if asked his - he didn't like talking to or looking up at tall folks.  If you look at those pics above, you'll notice he's sitting higher than the dude he's pontificating to.  I missed GOC's with him due to deployments and courses...I heard all the fun stories from platoon mates though about how he'd rag out people because they had new socks in their rucksacks and other weird stuff.  I broke my ankle just prior to the COP COBRA '95 fiasco going to and in Suffield, so missed out on it...then was posted.  One of the platoon leaders in my current reserve unit was a Pte with 3 RCR when he was the CO - I've heard a variety of things, often the same as other things I'd heard from others that were there as well.  

MM


----------



## jollyjacktar (7 Oct 2016)

I was there for Vernon, Ashton and Cox. They were different cats that's for sure.  Never really like the transit to Wainwright in the Iltis in the late fall to early spring period.  Too fucking cold inside.  Luckily those horse blankets masquerading as ranger blankets were good for dividing the interior of the jeep and give the pos heater a chance to do it's job.  Thank fuck for Norwegian sweaters and American jacket liners.


----------



## daftandbarmy (7 Oct 2016)

medicineman said:
			
		

> I heard all the fun stories from platoon mates though about how he'd rag out people because they had new socks in their rucksacks



OK, I give, why is this a bad thing?


----------



## Humphrey Bogart (7 Oct 2016)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> OK, I give, why is this a bad thing?


Which part?  The ragging or the socks?

Why are we talking about this man anyways?  He is long retired, Let the personality cult (good or bad) die already.


----------



## daftandbarmy (8 Oct 2016)

Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> Which part?  The ragging or the socks?
> 
> Why are we talking about this man anyways?  He is long retired, Let the personality cult (good or bad) die already.



But, but, but I just HAVE to know why having new socks in your ruck is a bad thing ... pleeeeeeeeeze?


----------



## Loachman (8 Oct 2016)

Because the coloured wool on the toes is guaranteed to match and he can't rag on anybody for that...?

Seriously, though, I only ever had one encounter with him, and it was positive. Then-Lieutenant-Colonel Cox had just arrived in Petawawa as the Base Commander in 1992 and I was about to leave for Downsview on my next posting. I was acting as an Assisting Officer for a female Corporal, the victim of unbelievably disgusting harassment, including death threats, and I had to brief him on some delicate circumstances and recommend the only just course of action. I don't recall hearing any stories about him before that, but I was advised that if I did not get him going in the right direction immediately, the cause would be irrevocably lost. He certainly did the right thing that time.

I still enjoy the tales, though.


----------



## medicineman (8 Oct 2016)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> OK, I give, why is this a bad thing?



Second hand - that they'd wreck his feet on a ruck march??!!

First time I met Gen Vernon was actually kinda funny - some guy was changing in the locker room at the gym and mentioned it was a good day for winter warfare training...at about -40'ish outside.  I quipped that I thought winter and warfare were two completely contradictory terms.  He asked why - I told that after a certain point, nothing works right, including people and equipment.  That was when I noticed the new garrison dress - he was one of 3 people on Base with it at the time...and he was looking a little closely at my unit epaulettes and my name tape...

MM


----------



## SeaKingTacco (8 Oct 2016)

I had two direct dealings with Mr Cox when he was BComd Petawawa in about 1992. The first was negative- he decreed that to eat in the Officers Mess, one had to be in uniform or jacket and tie- regardless of the summer weather of 33C plus humidex. The living in population plummeted from over a hundred to nearly nothing in the space of a few months. I do not think that either Normandy or  Rhine Ruhr officers Mess ever fully recovered. I never fully forgave him for destroying what was in my mind a fairly unique level of inter unit trust and cooperation, as up until then, the majority of the junior officers in the brigade knew each other by first name and trusted each other. After that, people tended not to socialize outside of unit lines very much.

The second was in the field and was more positive. My Troop was conducting a basic mountain ops course and repelling/climbing the cliffs on the Petawawa River. He stopped by with his driver, watched the training (without getting in the way), mingled with the troops and asked good questions. I had heard the horror stories of him jacking troops improperly dressed on the other side of range control. Apparently, he was happy with my troops, as nary a harsh word was issued.


----------

