# C/CWO Bloggins, LSM, ACSM



## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

i was just thinking. why don't we have abbreviations after cadets names when cadets have certain medals. for example the Army cadet service medal. the CF has the CD and that is always after there name. so why not have like 

C/CWO Bloggins, LSM, ACSM

it would only be for certain medals. like the top 3 medals  and the service medal. 

just thinking. it would be kind of neat.


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## ouyin2000 (29 Apr 2005)

you mean Post Nominal letters? like CD, VC, etc

i think that's because only the most "important" medals get those, albeit the CD is not necessarily seen as "important"

i think it's not needed right now, just something else shiny to add to your portfolio


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

ya post nominal letters. 

it may be something more to add to a profile but it is important to cadets. it doesn't matter what the military see's as important.  i don't think it should be given for every medal. not everyone will get a medal that gives them PNL's


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## ouyin2000 (29 Apr 2005)

but from what i understand, you would like the Lord Strat, Legion Medal, and ACSM to all have post nominal letters, which means "everyone" who manages to stay in cadets long enough will be elligible for the post nominal letters.

if you want to make it special, then maybe just for the Cadet Bravery Medal, and/or MGen Howard Award, since those are among the rarest medals to achieve


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

ya those are the ones i mean. i don't think the legion should. they are way to common. the lord strath maybe, major general, bravary and the ones practically never see yes. expept the ACSM i think you should get it. working 5 years at it should get you some extra little things. also it would be like the CD


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## ROTP Applicant (29 Apr 2005)

-Hutch- said:
			
		

> i was just thinking. why don't we have abbreviations after cadets names when cadets have certain medals.



Why would you want to have the abbreviations after your name? Are you that insecure about yourself that you need to take advantage of every opportunity that would "show-off" what you have achieved throughout your cadet career? Yes you're proud of your achievements, but cadets isn't about medals or badges or pointless abbreviations after your name.


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## Kat Stevens (29 Apr 2005)

ouyin2000 said:
			
		

> you mean Post Nominal letters? like CD, VC, etc
> 
> i think that's because only the most "important" medals get those, albeit the CD is not necessarily seen as "important"
> 
> i think it's not needed right now, just something else shiny to add to your portfolio



You're absolutely right.  23 years in the army got me a CD with clasp...23 years, not important at all..... 

Kat


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## Sapper Bloggins (29 Apr 2005)

Hmmm... : you are cadets--kids. Worry about finishing high school not about 'decorative' medals. What's next giving the Cub Scouts a medal for tying a fly?! Thanks for the chuckle, now go to your room. ;D


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## ouyin2000 (29 Apr 2005)

not all of us are kids...i graduated from high school last june


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Apr 2005)

I don't care how old you are, or where you are or how you got there. 

The Gov't decides. IIRC, it's DHH that designates them.   Maybe through the GG's office, I'm not sure. Even so, should you get a Post Nominal for your Cadet service, but a person that done two tours of A'ghan can't? How many letters do you want behind your name? Most people don't even know what QC behind a lawyer means, let alone all the military stuff you'd prefer. The satisfaction comes from knowing whatever you've done, you did your best, when you were asked. Not what you want to foist on some poor sap that thinks your important because you've got a bunch of letters behind your name. Next you'll want a ribbon because you passed your Cadet BMQ. Kinda like the US Coast Guard Private I met, 18 years old, at a Marine dinner. He had twelve ribbons. All for passing courses and visiting different ports, but they were all on the Great Lakes, he'd never really left the inland water system. I still liked him, great kid, but my four medals impressed him more, because I was Canadian, and he knew how stingy we are with our stuff.

I digress. 
What is your fascination with trying to impress people? Your in uniform, that should suffice, be proud of what you belong to. Your medals only add to that fact.

Humbleness and humility is the name of our game. You know what you've done to get where you are, let your quiet reserve speak to your actions. Life is more than being the biggest rooster in the coop. If Post Nominals are your concern at the moment, you need to get another life, because your going to be disappointed with this one.


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## Saorse (29 Apr 2005)

I have to agree with those above that post nominal letters in a cadet name are quite unnecessary. If we are awarded medals, we know, our respected comrades know, and our uniforms show for it. 

If my legion veterans had post nominal letters after their name for their decorations, it would take them three years to sign a cheque. To have something like this, whereas those much more deserving than us do not worry about these things, would be almost, in my mind, a mockery to those more worthy.

I don't think we need something like this at all: good idea, but not one that I hope is ever instituted.


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## bossi (29 Apr 2005)

-Hutch- said:
			
		

> ...  but it is important to cadets. it doesn't matter what the military see's as important.  ...



First and foremost, I strongly disagree with your proposal.
Post nominals are, should, and shall only be for those honours deemed significant enough that the recipient's name becomes inexorably linked to them (e.g. VC, CV, SC, MB, etc.) - it would dilute, or cheapen the meaning if this practice were to become too widely spread (e.g. the "Spam" medal ...)

Finally, if you truly believe that "it doesn't matter what the military see's as important" ... well ... I'm inclined to recommend you stop and give your head a shake.  Did you hear anything?  If you didn't, I wouldn't be surprised.  I'm no expert on cadets, but I kinda think they owe their continued existence to ... the military ...


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

ROTP Civi U said:
			
		

> Why would you want to have the abbreviations after your name? Are you that insecure about yourself that you need to take advantage of every opportunity that would "show-off" what you have achieved throughout your cadet career? Yes you're proud of your achievements, but cadets isn't about medals or badges or pointless abbreviations after your name.



i don't have any medals so i would not get anything added to my name to how you said "show off". i will be lucky to get the legion medal by the time i leave and that is one of the ones i said did not deserve the abbreviation





			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> I don't care how old you are, or where you are or how you got there.
> 
> Next you'll want a ribbon because you passed your Cadet BMQ. Kinda like the US Coast Guard Private I met, 18 years old, at a Marine dinner. He had twelve ribbons. All for passing courses and visiting different ports, but they were all on the Great Lakes, he'd never really left the inland water system. I still liked him, great kid, but my four medals impressed him more, because I was Canadian, and he knew how stingy we are with our stuff.
> 
> ...



 i would never want ribbons for the cadets. the Americans get ribbons for everything. we all know that why should there cadets be any different?

cadets don't do a BMQ we do summer camps and we get a badge for it that goes on our sleeve. if we do another camp the next year we take the old one off and put on a new one so we wouldn't have like 12 ribbons for different camps we have done.

what do you mean "What is your fascination with trying to impress people?" i am not cadet bloggins and i have no medals. i am not trying to impress anyone. 

last thing why am i going to be disappointed with this life?




			
				Sgt Saorse said:
			
		

> If my legion veterans had post nominal letters after their name for their decorations, it would take them three years to sign a cheque. To have something like this, whereas those much more deserving than us do not worry about these things, would be almost, in my mind, a mockery to those more worthy.



people do not sign checks with post nominals. simply first and last name, or your signature. so is cadets wearing military ranks a mockery of the military and those who really deserve them?




			
				bossi said:
			
		

> First and foremost, I strongly disagree with your proposal.



it was just something i was thinking about. it is not like i am writing the CF head office and proposing it



			
				bossi said:
			
		

> Finally, if you truly believe that "it doesn't matter what the military See's as important" ... well ... I'm inclined to recommend you stop and give your head a shake.   Did you hear anything?   If you didn't, I wouldn't be surprised.   I'm no expert on cadets, but I kinda think they owe their continued existence to ... the military ...



i didnt mean it dosent matter.it is what i saidbut what i ment was we are cadets, army air or navy. we wear the ranks of members of the CF (even thought they mean nothing in the accual CF) and i was just thinking why not have post nominominal medals such as the bravary award or a medal like that. it has only been awarded like 8 times and it is a pretty important medal.it is like the cadet equivilant to the V.C. i know it is not even close but it is the cadet equivilant.


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Apr 2005)

-Hutch- said:
			
		

> what do you mean "What is your fascination with trying to impress people?" i am not cadet bloggins and i have no medals. i am not trying to impress anyone.


Don't flatter yourself. Who said I was talking to you?


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

lol oh OK never mind that than :-[.  who were you talking about cadets in general?


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## Big Foot (29 Apr 2005)

The Bravery Medal is not only a cadet medal, to the best of my knowledge all Canadian citizens are eligible to win it, should the circumstances warrant its awarding. It can be awarded to civilians and military personnel. It does not warrant the use of post nominal letters. With the exception of the CD, which in itself deserves post-nominal letters, at least in my opinion, very few medals get post-nominals. I don't see why cadets need them. As far as I'm concerned, you gotta do something quite remarkable to get them, and thats how it should stay. 
Oh, and heres the link for the Medal of Bravery:
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/mainmenu/group02/mb


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## Pte. Bloggins (29 Apr 2005)

ouyin2000 said:
			
		

> not all of us are kids...i graduated from high school last june



So did I.  ;D


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

Big Foot said:
			
		

> The Bravery Medal is not only a cadet medal, to the best of my knowledge all Canadian citizens are eligible to win it, should the circumstances warrant its awarding. It can be awarded to civilians and military personnel. It does not warrant the use of post nominal letters. With the exception of the CD, which in itself deserves post-nominal letters, at least in my opinion, very few medals get post-nominals. I don't see why cadets need them. As far as I'm concerned, you gotta do something quite remarkable to get them, and thats how it should stay.
> Oh, and heres the link for the Medal of Bravery:
> http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/mainmenu/group02/mb



no no i am not talking about the Medal of Bravary. i am talking about the cadetaward for bravary. it is the highest cadet medal in the cadet program.

here is a link to some stuff about it.


Cadet Medal Requirements:

http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1316B_b.pdf 

here is one of all the winners. be sure to look att he right medal
http://www.armycadethistory.com/medals_awards_trophies.htm


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## garb811 (29 Apr 2005)

Big Foot said:
			
		

> The Bravery Medal is not only a cadet medal, to the best of my knowledge all Canadian citizens are eligible to win it, should the circumstances warrant its awarding. It can be awarded to civilians and military personnel. It does not warrant the use of post nominal letters.



Actually, the postnominals for the Medal of Bravery are "M.B.".   Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals - Precedence: Honours   This site shows the relevant, and correct, postnominals for all Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals.   Some people might want to take a look at the postnominals for the Canadian Forces Decoration, notice you don't see "C.D.1/2/3"...   :   You may be surprised at the number with postnominals as all Orders and Decorations have them, as well as 3 of the Medals.

As for Cadet Medals qualifying for postnominals, you should probably note that the RCMP Long Service Medal, the Police/Fire/Corrections/Coast Guard/Emergency Medical Services/Peace Officer Exemplary Service Medals, Ontario Medal for Police Bravery, Ontario Medal for Firefighters Bravery etc don't have postnominals either, and these are medals "officially awarded under the authority of the Crown" and take more than "...successfully complet(ing) five years of honourable service with no serious infractions,and be recommended by the Cadet Corps Commanding Officer." to be awarded.   I held out a bit of hope for your idea when I saw the Ontario Medal for Good Citizenship had the postnominals of O.M.C. but once I saw that the Commissionaire Long Service Medal didn't have them, that faint hope was dashed.   

On the other hand, perusing your link I see that I'm eligable for the Army Cadet Long Service Medal:





> 6. All Army Cadets past or future shall be eligible for this award.



Guess I'll have to fill out the form, send in my $10 and sign whatever petition you're going to get going for this whole postnominals hooha, as I think it'd be quite neat to have Mr Meat Head C.D. A.C.S.M. on my cheques...   

Interestingly enough it appears that there has been, or may be, an attempt to get this medal officially recognized:


> 11. ... The Army Cadet Service Medal will be worn at the extreme left of all decorations and medals of the Cadet system, all in accordance with existing dress regulations of the Canadian Cadet Organization and, if/where permitted, of the Canadian Honours System.



Be interesting to see how many guys actually applied for the medal and had it mounted if that happened.


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## Saorse (29 Apr 2005)

To comment on the rank comment,

Our ranks used to be red, and even still, our epaulets have "CADET," and our shoulder flashes something about cadets. We by no means mean to look like we belong to the CF; we do distinguish ourselves apart


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## ROTP Applicant (29 Apr 2005)

-Hutch- said:
			
		

> i don't have any medals so i would not get anything added to my name to how you said "show off". i will be lucky to get the legion medal by the time i leave and that is one of the ones i said did not deserve the abbreviation
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hutch, I think you missed the whole point all of these guys are trying to make. Cadets don't need post-nominals!!!!! In the post above, all you did was correct useless facts that barely have anything to do with the point the guys were trying to make. You never answered the question: Why do you want to have post-nominals?? And "just cause it's cool", is not a good answer.


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

why do i want them? it is not so much that i want them as it would bring a sense of pride to a outstanding cadet that has preformed extreme duties to achieve oh lets say the cadet award for bravary.

i just think it would be nice to see one small and harmless thing added to the cadets to make it more.......... oh i don't know militaryish (if that's a word) i am not saying that cadet aren't associated with the military enough. they are. but i just thought it might be nice for those cadets that are really outstanding to get postnominals.

there are like 7 medals in the army cadets. i am only saying it should be don't for the top 2 maybe 3. those medals are very rarely awarded, so i don't thing it would be abusing postnominals.



			
				Sgt Saorse said:
			
		

> To comment on the rank comment,
> 
> Our ranks used to be red, and even still, our epaulets have "CADET," and our shoulder flashes something about cadets. We by no means mean to look like we belong to the CF; we do distinguish ourselves apart




yes but if you were to take a CF SGT rank ond put it on your uniform NOW there is no difference in the badge.


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

2332Piper said:
			
		

> Heres the question, who cares? Who is going to see it and understand it?
> 
> When you walk into the legion or mess with VC, MMM etc after your name, people notice and know what it means. In the civvie world, some people know and respect these abbreviations or, if they do not, can have them explained to them (This is the VC, to get it you have to do...). These abbreviations mean something when your having your name read out on an obituary, parade etc in the CF.
> 
> ...



who cares? i am sure some people, lol

the people that see it and understand it are those who are inside the cadet program. it is just as easy to explain the cadet award for bravary ans it is the VC. if some one is truly interested than they will listen and care.

i know they are not the same thing as the military medals but they do mean something to cadets.

i can agree about the legion medal it is fairly easy to get. but like have said in almost every post there should only be postnominals for the really high cadet medals. like the cadet award for bravary. not he legion medal or anavets. the service medal was made to be like the CD for cadets. why not get all the benefits that it has?


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

so you agree that the bravary medal should have to abreviations? what about the royal canadian humane association medal? 

i know you cant really compare the CD with th ACSM but that is the reason the cadets have the ACSM it is supossed to be the cadet version of the CD. i know thereis a huge difference in the 2 medals, not just that one is for the miltary and one is for cadet.

i am going to change the voting options for the poll if anyone has a problem with that thay say something soon


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

well i don't know about having a medal you earned in cadets on your CF uniform. there has Been a cadet receive the star of curage and another that got he bravary medal. those i am guessing that they are given out the civilians since really cadets are civilians. they are also allowed on the CF uniform. they are higher than the cadet bravary award though


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## ouyin2000 (29 Apr 2005)

heres a hypothetical question: *IF* say, the ACSM were to have post nominals awarded with it, sinec that medal is not authorised for wear on a CF uniform, Hutch, would you fight to have the person allowed to use their post nominals even if the medal is not allowed to be worn?


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## Saorse (29 Apr 2005)

Post-nominals just don't belong in the cadet world.

You say that if I just took the rank and put it on my cadet uniform, that I'd be a CF Sergeant. My point still stands that there is still more than enough on my uniform to distinguish me.

If you earn the Order of Canada or the Victoria Cross, you darn well deserve those post nominals. As for a cadet medal of bravery, I still think they only warrant post-nominal letters if you are awarded something above and beyond cadets that actually legally gives them.

I am darn proud of my Legion Medal: I worked my tail off for it. However, to compare that with (even though you are saying that this medal would not warrant post-nominals in your ideas) men who have fought on the beaches of Normandy and peacekeeped in Kosovo, spending 30 years away from family and friends to pursue this lifestyle... cadets don't come within a hair of earning post-nominal letters unless it's a recognized CF/Civillian decoration with that stature already in place: our uniforms and our peers do us justice enough.


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## aesop081 (29 Apr 2005)

-Hutch- said:
			
		

> no no i am not talking about the Medal of *Bravary*. i am talking about the *cadetaward * for* bravary*. it is the highest cadet medal in the cadet program.
> 
> here is a link to some stuff about it.
> 
> ...





			
				-Hutch- said:
			
		

> well i don't know about having a medal you earned in cadets on your CF uniform. there has Been a cadet receive the star of *curage* and another that got he *bravary* medal. those i am guessing that they are given out the civilians since really cadets are civilians. they are also allowed on the CF uniform. they are higher than the cadet *bravary* award though



Maybe, before you think of ADDING letters, you should learn to spell   : .....Grammar lessons would not be a bad idea either

......."militaryish" is not a word........


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

ouyin2000 said:
			
		

> heres a hypothetical question: *IF* say, the ACSM were to have post nominals awarded with it, sinec that medal is not authorised for wear on a CF uniform, Hutch, would you fight to have the person allowed to use their post nominals even if the medal is not allowed to be worn?



what do you mean? if the person receives the ACSM and gets post nominals and than goes to the CF and still wants the post nominals? if that is what you are asking than i say NO. cadets is cadet CF is the CF. the only two things you can get in cadets that you can wear in the CF is your Jump wings and the D of E. nothing else should be taken with you to the CF



			
				aesop081 said:
			
		

> Maybe, before you think of ADDING letters, you should learn to spell   : .....Grammar lessons would not be a bad idea either
> 
> ......."militaryish" is not a word........



yesssss :-\.   what does this have to do with the topic? my spelling is the way the spell checker left it, and i never said militaryish was a word i was joking around when i put that in. it is the bes thing i could think of at the time.


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## ouyin2000 (29 Apr 2005)

so what your saying is that the post nominals *if* they get approved, are only to be used during the person's cadet service..

then i will say NO to any and all post nominals for cadets. i personally wouldnt want them and then have them taken away as soon as i hit 19 years old


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## Saorse (29 Apr 2005)

I think the poll the story.


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## Jonny Boy (29 Apr 2005)

ouyin2000 said:
			
		

> so what your saying is that the post nominals *if* they get approved, are only to be used during the person's cadet service..
> 
> then i will say NO to any and all post nominals for cadets. i personally wouldnt want them and then have them taken away as soon as i hit 19 years old


ya that is what i was saying. i doubt that this would ever get passed. it is not something that from what i see people think highly of. i have decided tha that the only cadet medal really "worthy" of post nominals would have to be the cadet award for bravery



			
				Sgt Saorse said:
			
		

> I think the poll the story.



what???????


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## Saorse (29 Apr 2005)

Sorry; Cape Breton accent in me  The poll _tells_ the story.

All in all, this has been a pretty productive thread so far, really!


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## Trinity (30 Apr 2005)

If there is a cadet medal for bravery, elminate.

If they do something that brave, give them the real one.
That solves wearing it on the uniform into the military world.

Other than that.. cadet medals are cadet medals.  

Lets not bash the cadets.  Yes, its amazing how easy it is some times.
But really, them wanting a shiny medal or ribbon is almost the same as
some of us wanting it sometimes.  You can't blame them for wanting
to bolster their acheivements or ... wanting to be cool.


Hutch..  I appreciate your opinion.  I also think your fighting a losing
battle here based, not because of your facts but by sheer numbers of
reg/res vs cadets in this thread... not to mention age and experience 
doesn't favour the cadets in arguments like these.

I don't see much by participating in any further discussion except a few
more insults thrown in a few directions.......

[me=Trinity]prays[/me]
'Dear God..  lock this thread.. Amen'


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## Burrows (30 Apr 2005)

Trinity said:
			
		

> If there is a cadet medal for bravery, elminate.
> 
> If they do something that brave, give them the real one.
> That solves wearing it on the uniform into the military world.
> ...



Well said padre!


God has heard your prayer and asked me to strike down this thread 

[me=Kyle] strikes down the thread [/me]


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