# NATO command badge



## larry Strong (21 Nov 2016)

Hi

I am not sure if this is the right spot for this....Feel free to move it if not.


I am looking to find out what this badge was for......


Thanks for the help

Cheers
Larry


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## George Wallace (21 Nov 2016)

What are the dimensions of this badge?  Is it approx 1 1/8 inches high or just over 2 1/2 inches high?

It looks like an American distinctive unit insignia that would be worn on collar or field cap
 (if 1 1/8 inches).


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## George Wallace (21 Nov 2016)

Could it be a version of the old NATO Supreme Allied Command Atlantic (ACLANT)?


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## Staff Weenie (21 Nov 2016)

Larry, it looks like crossed torpedoes, a trident, and a submarine. I'd be guessing some sort of sub school or torpedo school??


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## expwor (21 Nov 2016)

This from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Allied_Commander_Atlantic

Tom


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## larry Strong (22 Nov 2016)

Hi

Thanks for the help. 

George, I don't have it in hand however here is a photo of the reverse and taking the size of the pin devices I would say 2.5"




> Could it be a version of the old NATO Supreme Allied Command Atlantic (ACLANT)?



I don't thinks so. I am of the "School" mindset..........however what school?





Cheers
Larry


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## armyvern (22 Nov 2016)

Atlantic Intelligence Command?


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## Halifax Tar (22 Nov 2016)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Atlantic Intelligence Command?



Oh that's too easy lol  op:


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## George Wallace (22 Nov 2016)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> George, I don't have it in hand however here is a photo of the reverse and taking the size of the pin devices I would say 2.5"
> 
> ....I am of the "School" mindset..........however what school?
> 
> ...



That size would put it as likely being placed on the pocket and a 'Command Badge'.

I am inclined to follow Staff Weenie's suggestion of it being along the lines of a Submarine School or Command.


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## Oldgateboatdriver (22 Nov 2016)

Pretty sure it's a command badge for some submarine force.

Funny enough, the trident's shape is close to the old German WWII U-boat one , but there would be a "U" somewhere in the letters for 'submarine", not  a "S" if it was German.

I am not driving 40 Km into town to look it up, but if you have access to a university library or a good large library somewhere, look  for Pete Prichard's "Submarine Badges and Insignia of the World". It's a pretty exhaustive guide for historians and collectors.


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## Journeyman (22 Nov 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> Pretty sure it's a command badge for some submarine force.


 Agree, but _possibly_  a weapons' school given the size predominance of the torpedoes (although that may be more a matter of the space they had to work with).



> Funny enough, the trident's shape is close to the old German WWII U-boat one , but there would be a "U" somewhere in the letters for 'submarine", not  a "S" if it was German.


If it is NATO, it would likely be English, with a slight chance it is French (I found that almost everyone worked in English except France, who insisted on speaking French; occasionally some southern Belgians would speak French while the northern Belgians would speak....well, pig-latin or anything _but_  French).



> I am not driving 40 Km into town to look it up....


Oh come on, it's a lovely day for a drive.   op:


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## George Wallace (22 Nov 2016)

Oldgateboatdriver said:
			
		

> I am not driving 40 Km into town to look it up, .....



....and looking at the trees in the forest, we can look it up using Google......Thanks for the resource: Pete Prichard's "Submarine Badges and Insignia of the World"


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## larry Strong (22 Nov 2016)

Thanks to all for the help so far. The trident is what suggested to me "NATO" as shown above they are very similar....

Will have to check that book out  Another one for the library.
Much appreciated.


Cheers
Larry


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## George Wallace (22 Nov 2016)

Larry Strong said:
			
		

> Thanks to all for the help so far. The trident is what suggested to me "NATO" as shown above they are very similar....
> 
> Will have to check that book out  Another one for the library.
> Much appreciated.
> ...



It's similarity to the NATO Supreme Allied Command Atlantic (ACLANT) badge likely has you on the right track.


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## Titicboom (22 Nov 2016)

Doing a google reverse image search came up with:

https://www.navycs.com/gallery2/v/useful_images/flags_emblems/aclant.gif.html
If that helps at all


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## armyvern (22 Nov 2016)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> Oh that's too easy lol  op:



Pretty much; the badge he pictured does state "AIC"; it's what came to my mind and lo & behold ... it existed!!  funny that they have a few sites with imagery as well, with torpedoes and tridents and such.


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## larry Strong (23 Nov 2016)

Again Thanks to all

@Vern It is a little blurry and it actually is "ASC".

And yes the similarity was the reason I am thinking NATO.....


Cheers
Larry


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## OldTanker (23 Nov 2016)

Allied Submarine Command? Makes sense.  Per http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/doctrine/other/aap15.pdf


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## Blackadder1916 (23 Nov 2016)

I posted the picture and posed the question in another forum I visit and received this reply.



> I have had a look in my NATO Insignia book by Peter Wels and the closest I can get to this badge is one for Subclant. The only difference is the gold title where your is A I C and not Subclant.
> I would say it is a NATO badge



That respondent also mistook the blurry "S" for an "I".  The Wels' book that he referenced was published in 1993 and thus would have predated many of the changes in NATO organization that likely resulted in a slew of new acronyms and abbreviations.  Just as ACLANT transformed (sort of) into MARCOM (whose badge incorporates the previous ACLANT emblem as one of its elements) it is possible that the former SUBCLANT may now be Allied Submarine Command (ASC) and simply swapped acronyms on its badge.  ASC, as a separate and individual organization, is likely not a very large and distinct command, probably with many of its staff being involved in other national (read USN) organizations.  Its commander, an American vice-admiral is triple (or more) hatted. 





> As commander, Submarine Forces he is the Undersea Domain lead, and is responsible for the submarine force's strategic vision. As commander, Submarine Force Atlantic, he commands all Atlantic-based U.S. submarines, their crews and supporting shore activities. These responsibilities also include duties as commander, Task Force (CTF) 144, CTF 84; commander, Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Forces Western Atlantic; and CTF 46. As commander, *Allied Submarine Command*, he provides advice to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization Strategic Commanders on submarine related issues.


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## George Wallace (23 Nov 2016)

New Commander of Submarine Forces NATO Named in January 2015.  Notice his badge, and this may indicate that over the years, they have, like the Canadian Army, redesigned their badge several times:


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## Blackadder1916 (23 Nov 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> New Commander of Submarine Forces NATO Named in January 2015.  Notice his badge, and this may indicate that over the years, they have, like the Canadian Army, redesigned their badge several times:



The badge as shown worn is that of MARCOM.  NATO Submarine Command is one of the subordinate commands of MARCOM and both are co-located at Northwood, UK.  COMSUBNATO is also titled the Deputy Chief of Staff Submarines in the MARCOM HQ.  The Commander, Allied Submarine Command is in Norfolk, VA.  The descriptions of each other roles seems to have a lot of overlap and redundancies.


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## jranrose (23 Nov 2016)

Here is a good resource showing the Nato command badges (Bottom of page).

http://www.bemil.be/EN.htm


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