# Ex PHOENIX RAM - Brigade Training Event 2005 (BTE 05) in Wainwright



## PhilB (7 May 2005)

Hi everyone, 

Im currently doing work up training with the reserve D&S plt of TF 1-06. We have been told that we are going on the BTE in Sept, but nobody I have talked with has any idea what the ex is all about. Anyone in the know have any more details on the BTE. If anyone does not want to post openly my email is pbialek@gmail.com. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys


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## Heathan (8 May 2005)

From my understanding the BTE is for the month of October instead of September. It will be our (2VP) conformation ex for high rediness to deploy. The ex will cover every aspect of mounted and dismounted ops.


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## Yeoman (8 May 2005)

I'm on glue; nevermind.
Greg


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## Gunner (8 May 2005)

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lfwa_hq/Conferences/AC_Apr05/BTE05_Update.ppt

See the attached link...see you there.


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## jc5778 (9 May 2005)

Heathan said:
			
		

> From my understanding the BTE is for the month of October instead of September. It will be our (2VP) conformation ex for high readiness to deploy. The ex will cover every aspect of mounted and dismounted ops.


To my knowledge the 1st and 3rd will be the main effort on the BTE.  We, 2 VP, will be the support battalion just like Prairie Ram 04. It's a pipe dream to think we are going anywhere anytime soon.  I wish it weren't true but...... :'(


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## Acorn (10 May 2005)

3rd is high readiness for Aug 05, and will likely be the basis for the combat elm of PRT (as far as I can tell). 1st is the basis for TF 1-06, and 2d is Surge 06. BTE primary trg audience is TF 1-06, 2-06 (SQFT elms) and Surge 06. Dates for the ex are 7 Sep-31 Oct.

As for 2 VP not going anywhere soon: wait for it. 

Acorn


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## cbt arms sub tech (12 May 2005)

Lots of educated troops here, do you realistically see many reservists on the next two roto's ?  Curiousity on your thoughts about how reservists should be training to get ready for deployments....


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## jc5778 (12 May 2005)

My personnel thoughts on that are that there are more then enough Reg force to deploy, however things never cease to amaze me.  Cross your fingers though.


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## Historic Gunner (16 May 2005)

I saw at a briefing once that we would have a whole 2 gun dets of reservists for rotos 3 & 4, also they will be attached to us for the work ups and our BTEs.


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## lobudget (2 Aug 2005)

We (B SQN, LdSH) are tasked as support for the BTE as well.  The dates I was given in the OC's hour before I came home on block leave were 21 Sept-20 or 21 October but those may just be for our own involvement.  AS for 2 VP not going anywhere anytime soon,m don't feel like the lone ranger.  We're not on the sched until August of '07 and that was supposed to be with MGS which they now say we won't have until 2010.  THe 1 VP anti-armour boys (who are now with us) will probably go before we do.


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## Scoobie Newbie (2 Aug 2005)

2008 my man


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## claybot (2 Aug 2005)

BTE is Exercise Phoenix Ram check the LFWA site


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## Blakey (2 Aug 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> 2008 my man


You honestly dont believe that do you?  :


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## Scoobie Newbie (2 Aug 2005)

fingers crossed.


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## Gunner98 (3 Sep 2005)

On Tuesday 6 Sep, I will begin my journey west with 14 others to assist 1 Fd Amb in establishing the No Duff BMS.  TTBR 10 Sep 05.  With the expectation of approx. 5200 all ranks, civies and contractors participating in the BTE, I am sure the BMS will be a busy one.

I realize many of you will arrive later in Sep or Oct to be a part of it.  I look forward to seeing the "new" Wainwright maps/ranges that will include the villages and farms constructed from sea containers.  

Should you run across any of the six new Ford F-450 Super Heavy Ambs, don't hesitate to ask the occupants to see unique new age Role 3 Amb, unless of course it is busy ferrying patients around the prairie training ground (flashing lights and sirens would be your first clue).

Should your travels lead you to the No Duff BMS at Camp Wainwright just ask for the OC BMS/Gunner 98 and I will see that you get a warm cup of coffee or a kick in the butt, which ever the situation requires. 

Happy Trails.    Summer/fall/winter awaits.


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## TCBF (3 Sep 2005)

If you get near Bldg 152 - CMTC Ops - Just ask for the office of the Armd Recce Observers/Controllers and I will walk you down the hall and give YOU a cup of coffee.

Assuming i'm not in the field. ;D

Tom


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## PteCamp (3 Sep 2005)

Hi there.
Just a quick question, my unit asked me to go participate in this BTE in Wainwright, but had no infomation on it at all. 
Whats this ex for anyways? Any info would be great.
Thanks.

-KaT


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## Gunner (3 Sep 2005)

I suspect a lot of us will be in Wx Sep/Oct.  If you are around EXCON/HICON in the Tommy Prince Drill Hall, stop by and say Hi!

BTE is the Brigade Training Event.  It will run HQ 1 CMBG and 2 High Readiness Task Forces for 2006. Check out the LFWA DIN site for all the information you could ever want.  TF 1-06 will be validated up to Level 7 Battle Task Standards in a three block war scenario.  

What job are you volunteering for?


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## George Wallace (3 Sep 2005)

It is a Brigade Training Event, or as we became accustomed to calling it "Best Time Ever" when things didn't go as we hoped.

It is were the Bde does its training, to include live fire, and the Confirmation Exercises for troops going on the next ROTO.


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## Gunner98 (3 Sep 2005)

Good thread at: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30477.0.html

A few excerpts from thread: 1st and 3rd PPCLI will be the main effort on the BTE.  2 VP, will be the support battalion just like Prairie Ram 04. 

3rd is high readiness for Aug 05, and will likely be the basis for the combat elm of PRT (as far as I can tell). 1st is the basis for TF 1-06, and 2d is Surge 06. BTE primary trg audience is TF 1-06, 2-06 (SQFT elms) and Surge 06. Dates for the ex are 7 Sep-31 Oct.

Confirmation ex for high readiness to deploy. The ex will cover every aspect of mounted and dismounted ops.


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## PteCamp (3 Sep 2005)

Hmm, 
Apparently I would be going working in an RRB det.
My unit had no information on the exercise at all, they just said I would leave Sept 10th probably and be home Oct 31st, or around there.

-KaT


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## cbt arms sub tech (12 Sep 2005)

Anyone know how the BTE is going this year in Wainwright, also wondering, how laundry & shower services work when deployed in Wainwright...Are the days fairly long, depending on what you work at in the field in Wainwright, any days off in 7 weeks of work, or is that the general rule, work your ass off, then take time after the BTE?


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## Scothern (12 Sep 2005)

Why would anyone want time off in Wainwright?  I'm posted here and knowing work is there gets me through the off hours.  :dontpanic:

Seriously though, sorry, I don't know the status of the folks out past the gates.


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## scotty884 (12 Sep 2005)

LOL Time off???  your kidding right?  Laundry will work as per normal through the QM, showers......um showers?????  JK usually there is a shower run every 2-3 days at least with us there is.


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## Scoobie Newbie (13 Sep 2005)

you give your laundry to your coy CQ who in turn gives in to your QM who then (not so sure).
Also showers happen when the happen.  Nothing set in stone on them.


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## Blakey (13 Sep 2005)

> you give your laundry to your coy CQ


And I don't want you smelling my underwear like last time either!  ;D


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## Scoobie Newbie (13 Sep 2005)

you probably took pictures of it didn't ya.


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## cbt arms sub tech (14 Sep 2005)

Any pictures from the BTE floating around as of yet?


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## Scoobie Newbie (14 Sep 2005)

it doesn't start for us until Oct


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## cbt arms sub tech (14 Sep 2005)

Who's on the BTE as of today?


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## McG (15 Sep 2005)

at least: 1 PPCLI, 1 Fd Amb, 1 CMBG HQ, elements of 1 Svc/1 GS (as the TLB in the tented city).  1 CER was there early and will be returning in a few days.


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## DannyBoy (15 Sep 2005)

Hey, my unit was asking for enemy force for this BTE 05 and I might put my name in so I was wondering what are you guys doing on this excercise, and what might I be doing if i went as enemy force?


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## KevinB (15 Sep 2005)

As far as I know 3VP C Coy (Para) is doing EN force as well as some jumps in WATC (unrelated to the BTE but to keep the pilots current with dope on a rope).

 The SAT phase was cancelled so a lot of Class B opportunities seem to have been cancelled.


En Force: dont shave and run around like a yahoo


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## Scoobie Newbie (15 Sep 2005)

are you sure Kev cause we are going for both BTE and SAT 2 (Nov)

p.s. if your still in strange control you could really put a bug in highers collective asses of the 1st.


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## Gunner (16 Sep 2005)

SAT 2 continues in Oct/Nov.  It ramps up as BTE is ramping down.


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## KevinB (16 Sep 2005)

AH Ha...

 Thx.


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## DannyBoy (16 Sep 2005)

> En Force: dont shave and run around like a yahoo




haha I like that part but no what is the BTE05 is it like Stalwart Guardian, a mach senario where different brigades are setup in different areas, and thereis the Blueland Freedom Fighters and there is Orange land? What exactly are you guys doing, I'm kinda interested since I've been hearing alot about this BTE05 but nobody tells what it is. Sorry if I'm being repetitive I just want to know.


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## pte. Massecar (16 Sep 2005)

Danny, it's like our stalwart guardian but for reg force. so bigger and better. as my unit briefed me the enemy force job will be to play as "insurgents" or as i was told.. f*** around with officers.


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## Scoobie Newbie (16 Sep 2005)

keeping mind that you will only mess around with them as your arcs dictate.


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## Scoobie Newbie (16 Sep 2005)

We in the 2nd are doing BTE in Oct, coming home for Halloween and then sending one coy back for SAT 2 with atts and dets.


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## cbt arms sub tech (16 Sep 2005)

Sorry, to ask but, whats SAT 2?


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## McG (16 Sep 2005)

BTE = Brigade Training Event.

In BTE 03, 2 CMBG and its units were validated.  BTE 05 will validate 1 CMBG HQ, 1 PPCLI BG, 2 R22eR BG, and (to a lesser extent) a 2 PPCLI BG.

SAT 2 = the second phase of the WES (Wpns Effects Simulator) validations for CMTC.


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## cbt arms sub tech (18 Sep 2005)

So, folks that have been on a BTE in Wainwright, any do's or don't's on what to bring, what to do in Wainwright, as I'm trying to get a grasp of the Ex...


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## Scoobie Newbie (18 Sep 2005)

we were told to pack both summer and winter gear.


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## cbt arms sub tech (18 Sep 2005)

Are the days usually pretty long?


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## McG (18 Sep 2005)

cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> I'm trying to get a grasp of the Ex...


Are you planning to just show-up & hope someone will take you in?



			
				cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> So, folks that have been on a BTE in Wainwright, any do's or don't's on what to bring,


The kit list is simple: everything you need for war.  Planning for the time of year, you would want your cold weather kit (it just might snow).



			
				cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> what to do in Wainwright,


I would not plan on seeing much beyond the trg area (unless, maybe, if you are in the TLB).



			
				cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> Are the days usually pretty long?


24 hrs long.  War does not stop for everyone to visit Canex.


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## tomhynes (19 Sep 2005)

I was asked last week if I wanted to go to Wainwright for the month of October to take part in the Brigade Training Event thats taking place there. Thats the only information I was given though. Im a Sup Tech, does anyone know what the training for me would consist of? I also know it has something to do with going on tour, but like I said I havent been told much, any info would be great!


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## tomhynes (19 Sep 2005)

I was asked to join the BTE last week. Im a supply tech by trade in the reserves, so I really have no idea what to expect. They had no hard details about what I'd be doing, who I'd be integrated with etc...Does anyone have any info on any of this?


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## cbt arms sub tech (20 Sep 2005)

I haven't been on a BTE before, although a few things to consider, Wainwright in October, expect anything for weather, expect & pack for the worst, warm clothes...Its an Brigade Ex, so lots of troops, 5,000 plus I imagine....Plus its a Regular force ex, so have your shit together...I would think you would be tasked with 1 svc bn doing log stuff...Ensuring everyone is getting feed, clothed, full of ammo, full, all that fun stuff...Not like a reserve ex, your in the field late Friday, out Sunday morning, so no need for showers & laundry...So think about your trade, how you would feed everyone, an there's needs plus 30 days...If you go, do a great job, especially if your reserve, give the reserve a good reputation!

Professional Soliders playing war for 30 days, so I would suggest you go in being prepared, so known of them sort you out!


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## D-n-A (20 Sep 2005)

Expect to be doing the same stuff you've done on a Active Edge an Cougar Salvo, only this ex is on a march larger scale.


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## tomhynes (20 Sep 2005)

I found out today that Ill be going as a driver. I dont know whether Im actually going to be "playing" with the Regs, or if Im just there to support and drive someone around. Either way, I think Im ready.


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## PteCamp (27 Sep 2005)

I'm out in Wainwright right now doing BTE 05.
It's cold. Pack for the cold; ie fleece, long underwear, jacket, toque...that sort of stuff.
This is a serious ex. Lots going on, lots of stuff to remember.
I'm out as a reservist too and its a lot different then any exercise I have ever been on. 
Just make sure your shits together and you'll be fine. Just work hard, thats what they want.
But other then that its a pretty good go so far. 
Good luck.

-KaT


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## cbt arms sub tech (27 Sep 2005)

I'd be interested in hearing more about the BTE presently in Wainwright, PM please...


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## cbt arms sub tech (21 Oct 2005)

Any feedback from the BTE, I'm sure its coming to a close shortly?


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## Gunner (21 Oct 2005)

Endex was called at 1000 hrs today.  They units will do range cleanup and wash vehicles and begin redeploying in a few days.  The LdSH (RC) and 2 PPCLI will be holding a gun camp and support to SAT II later in the month.

It was a very big and very complicated exercise but from a control perspective, I thought it went well.


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## Infanteer (21 Oct 2005)

Did we win?


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## Gunner (21 Oct 2005)

Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.   Something to remember; seems like they may have forgotten to teach it to a couple of courses!   

(note - so sayeth this desk warrior     )


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## Infanteer (21 Oct 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.



I see that the word hasn't completely got out that the Combat Team doesn't really exist in Canada anymore.


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## Gunner (21 Oct 2005)

The BLUEFOR didn't have tank or direct fire support but they did have the resources to deal with a company dug in with 3-4 tanks.


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## Infanteer (21 Oct 2005)

I thought tank and/or DFS support *-was-* the resource to deal with a company dug in with 3-4 tanks.  Didn't Kosovo teach us anything?


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## Teddy Ruxpin (21 Oct 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> The BLUEFOR didn't have tank or direct fire support but they did have the resources to deal with a company dug in with 3-4 tanks.



Indirect fire, I assume?

Even so, the force ratio is all wrong and attacking a company with a company violates most tactical principles.  The "tanks are useless" crowd would do well to note how quickly even a troop ruined an attacking force's day...


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## Gunner (21 Oct 2005)

I don't think it mattered that there were tanks there or not...as you mentioned, the force ratio was way off.  There were varrious resources for BLUEFOR (CAS, Arty, etc) that could have been better employed.  Once again, so sayeth this desk warrior. ;D


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## D-n-A (22 Oct 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.   Something to remember; seems like they may have forgotten to teach it to a couple of courses!



Yea, they underestimated the size of the enemy force in that position,  they believed that it was just a platoon there.


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## cbt arms sub tech (22 Oct 2005)

Anyone got some pic's to post, compared to what DND has on the image gallery....


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## cbt arms sub tech (23 Oct 2005)

Once deploying back to respective units, do soliders typically get a few days off to sort out personal kit & family matters, or right back to work after the Ex is complete....


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## McG (23 Oct 2005)

cbt arms sub tech said:
			
		

> Once deploying back to respective units, do soliders typically get a few days off to sort out personal kit & family matters, or right back to work after the Ex is complete....


No days off until all cleaning & maint is complete.  1 VP should be stood-down Fri & Mon.



			
				Gunner said:
			
		

> The BLUEFOR didn't have tank or direct fire support but they did have the resources to deal with a company dug in with 3-4 tanks.


There were Leopards playing at being MGS, and M113A2 based ADATS & TUA (or a DFS Tp as it was collectively called).



			
				Gunner said:
			
		

> Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.


I hope that was not the only lesson learned.


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## MJP (23 Oct 2005)

> Quote from: Gunner on October 21, 2005, 22:09:19
> Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.
> I hope that was not the only lesson learned.



I hope so too....considering the push to attack that objective came from above the unit.  The whole plan at the company level came together in just over an hour or so IIRC.  We had just set our OPs to picket to objective when the word came in to attack.  Nothing better than crossing the LOD as the lead PL and getting radio traffic from your recce C/S's asking if you need the site sketch.  We knew that there was a company or so of enemy there plus Tangos and BTRs at our level (PL/section), makes you wonder why someone didn't tell someone else all the conditions for victory weren't set at any level?(besides my troops and peers)  Not so much fun for the attacker.

CAS wasn't availiable (according to our FOO)
The town was a no arty area and the observation tower/Mosque was a No Fire Area...Kinda limits a tankless combat teams options IMHO.  Besides without some form of WES any veh, arty or AT weapon engagement was a farce anyway.  Lets not talk about the disasterous first attempt to take Vernenburg and link up TF2-06 with it's ZULU vehicles.....Nothing like running into 8 tanks and a PL or two of BTRs with a combat team....





> Quote from: cbt arms sub tech on Today at 12:15:40
> Once deploying back to respective units, do soliders typically get a few days off to sort out personal kit & family matters, or right back to work after the Ex is complete....
> No days off until all cleaning & maint is complete.  1 VP should be stood-down Fri & Mon.



1 VP will be sttod down Thurs/Fri....Monday is the start of some of the TMST training


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## McG (31 Oct 2005)

For those looking to see more on the BTE, Global has been doing a lot of promotions for a summary on thier 6 o'clock news tonight (even newspaper adds yesterday).  I don't know if it is Canada wide or just here in the West.



			
				MJP said:
			
		

> 1 VP will be sttod down Thurs/Fri....Monday is the start of some of the TMST training


Seems different sub-units had either Thurs/Fri (the rifle Coys) or Fri/Mon (HQ & Fd Sqn).  Enjoy the FA trg @ the Ramada tomorrow.


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## MJP (31 Oct 2005)

MCG said:
			
		

> Enjoy the FA trg @ the Ramada tomorrow.



Yea I'll be all over it.....there's only 23 FA Instructors waiting to be certified within the TF itself.....not to mention many more that are certified to teach and we hired civvies.  I know why they went that route but still seems silly to me.


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## McG (14 Nov 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Did we win?


I've heard one thought echoed a few times now, and I thought I'd look for more opinions on it.  It basically suggests that there was no level 6 trg, and what was called "level 6/7" was in fact only level 7.  I know that in the BG it was emphasised at a few times that we were a trg aid for the Bde.

Thoughts?


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## bigwig (30 Nov 2005)

> Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.
> I hope that was not the only lesson learned.



hahaha. I was the number one on the 84 when you guys attacked six hills that day. It turned into a mass cas pretty quick


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## m410 (27 Feb 2006)

This can probably be desticked.


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## TCBF (27 Feb 2006)

"Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company."

- Like, we didn't know THAT sixty years ago? 

 ;D


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## Dissident (21 May 2010)

Reading Contact Charlie and it mentions in passing that the BTE 05 was not all that great: MOdeled on cold war doctrine, forcing old TTPs on units, using and facing equipment that did not accuratly reflect the coming deployement to Afg.

On my end that ex was terrible, 15 MP Coy was shoved in a corner of the trg area (Irma Gate) and all we had was our higher HQ bumping us to keep us busy. I guess we weren't the only ones who had a reason to complain.


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