# Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]



## bertram

I have heard that any lies/misleading information given during the application process will come back and bite a person in the hind end, so naturally, I do not want to lie on my application. What is the Canadian Forces stand on past drug use, specifically marijuana? Future use on my part is not an issue - it‘s not going to happen. I know that there is a urine test (not a problem, it takes 3 - 45 days to pass urine that will pass tests), but what about the medical questionnaire? Is stuff like that even on it? Do they ask about things that may give a false positive on tests (ie: Ibuprofen can cause a false positive for marijuana) This is something I have not been able to get a really straight answer on,  so any information would be really helpful.


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## Korus

Just stop doing it and fess up, and like you say do not tell any lies.
 Marijunana itself probably shouldn‘t give you too much of a problem... 

As far as I know, however, the urine test isn‘t a drug test, but mainly to detect for certain types of diesease (certain forms of Diabetes, etc). Though they may test you for drugs too, I‘m not sure.


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## max flinch

I will pass on what I learned as I went throught the medical last year:
1) Do not lie about past use of weed. The official outlook on past use is "We understand that people sometimes make bad decisions." They need to hear from you that you are through that stage of your life now. You may want to settle on exactly when it was that you stopped using - it helps to be able to say, "I haven‘t lit up for two and a half years now." 
If you have delved into acid and other hallucinogens, you may have trouble getting in. I‘m not sure of the time constraints about how long ago it was since you used that they‘ll look at you. I think the military recognizes a big jump between a few joints and dropping acid.
2) The urine test is to test your blood sugar to determine if you are diabetic. Nothing else. That I was told right from the MO who was doing the test on me. You don‘t need to worry about false readings.
3) If you lie during the process, and it is discovered, you‘re screwed. The information you sign to as true on the form is basically a sworn legal document. If the military can‘t trust you to tell the truth, they really have to question if you can be trusted with the life of a fellow soldier. This is a big issue for them, far more so than a checkered past as a youngster. I actually knew someone who had passed the qualifications to be accepted as a pilot trainee, and it was then discovered that he had lied about using pot in the past. "Don‘t let the door hit you in the ***  on the way out." Again, it wasn‘t the usage - it was that he had lied.
The military is one of the last places in the western world where you will find situations where your word is your bond. Break that, and you lose a lot.
Hope this little ramble helped. Good luck.


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## MP 811

Max is very right..  I can tell you on a number of occasions, I was called in to investigate recruits on the BRT course in Esquimalt who had lied about previous drug use.  It‘s not pretty, so dont lie.


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## MethylSilane

You know, I told the truth about drug use in my Medical and Interview.  I never have been interested in using drugs, so I never have.  I stick to alcohol, thank you.

Oddly enough, both times I was asked, my replies were recieved with near disbelief.

I have a feeling that I‘ll be asked to pee in a lot of cups during my stay...but whatever.


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## Korus

You know, methyl, I had the same thing.. I‘ve never been into that stuff... (yee-haw, I can resist peer pressure!)

The Medical interviewer Spent at least 5 minutes on the topic before he was finally convinced that I didn‘t do any illicit drugs.


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## humint

I, too, told the officer that I‘ve never done drugs. The guy simply looked at me in disbelief. I had to explain why I never used it -- blah, blah, blah. I really don‘t think that he believed me. 

My impression is that a lot of people confess to using it on a recreational basis and that they have come to accept this as typical behaviour. 

Oddly enough, my avoidance of drugs (but not beer!) in my younger years is now considered atypical behaviour. 

All that said, don‘t worry and be honest!


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## Dacier

The interviewer for me looked alittle shocked when I said I never taken drugs before.

I do drink beer of course, so I must of come off as a bit normal.


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## sgtdixon

So If hypothetically one had say smoked up once about 3 years ago and he told the straight truth about it it should be no problem for said subject?


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## Dacier

Only smoked up once three years ago?  
They truly wouldn‘t care.  They might ask a question or two about it, but they are interested in the person you are today.  If you show that you have matured and are making better decisions in life by examples that you can provide, your in.

An interview is just to see what kind of person you are.  Unless your some crazy wackjob, you‘ll do fine in the interview.  

They are not the cops, they won‘t bust if you told them in the interview if you did drugs.  If they find out that you lied, your chances of getting in are over.  

Tell the truth


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## Ducimus22

As stated above, tell the truth. I screwed up years ago and told the officer interviewing me that I had smoked pot, we talked about it for about 2 minutes, then moved on. Chances are he could tell if you were lying, and you don‘t want to have repercussions later on in your career if they find out. Just to reiterate, tell the truth, it‘ll feel like a weight off your chest.


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## patrick666

I admitted to use of mushrooms about 1.5 years ago and now I have to reapply next summer which is a total disappointment but oh well. If you‘ve ever used a hallucinagen, it has to be 3 years past. Is that correct? 

- Patrick


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## future_soldier

What kind of tests are done in the CF Medical exam? Perticularily pertaining to drug tests....


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## Fusaki

They do a urinalysis (spelling?). You get to piss on one of those chemical colour strips that you used in chemistry class.

The recruiter told me that 90% of the guys he tests have tried pot at one point or another. I‘ve been under the impression that they‘re more interested in weeding out (no pun intended) dishonest kids then they are with getting rid of the occasional toker. Be honest about your past and you shouldnt have much to worry about.

keep off the grass!!!


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## Dire

so 90% of the people he‘s tested has smoked pot in the last 2 months? Why I say that is because I was an avid Pot smoker (like everyone else in BC).


Marjuana can stay between 1-4 months in your system when they do a urine test 1-8 months if they do a hair test.

So the people he sampled musta smoked or been around smoke not to long before they did their test.

Does the army automaticly fail you if you have THC in your system?

thats a big question for me since I smoked weed til the day I decided to join the forces.


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## combat_medic

If you test positive for drugs in your system, good chance you won‘t get in. 

If you say "Yes, I have done drugs at some point in my younger days, but learned my lesson and have been clean for a while now." Then you‘re just being honest. However, if you‘re a hard core pot smoker and decide to just quit to try and pass the urine test, you‘ll probably flunk.


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## Tpr.Orange

is there just one test? during your entrance?


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## klumanth

They can test you any **** time they want to but they won‘t unless they have good reason.


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## Dire

hehe. I‘d be honest but not say something like

"Yeah I was cronic for a year straight lol"

I‘d more likly say "Yeah I smoked weed a month ago and my friends smoke pot but I quit awhile ago" or something along those lines..

Since you can fail the test when you‘ve never even touched a joint from just getting 2nd hand smoke.


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## Dire

also!!!

Honestly, you all shoulda taken a drug test before even taking the armies drug test.

I also hear that cranberry juice helps and that you can buy some crap that flushes out your system.

But then again people say that nothing will clear THC from your system besides time....


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## Fusaki

nevermind...


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## timbit

Ok on the weekend I went out and got paled. Now the problem is me and the girl I was with went to a house party and the place was filled with smoke(MaryJane Type). When i say filled it was nasty. Now this week  I was going to go and get my application but I am worried about the drug test, the weed will show up. What is the CF regulations on 2nd hand incounters.


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## Bert

I wouldn‘t worry about it Tim.  They look for a number of things in the urine sample and each substance has to exceed a certain concentration for an accurate measurement.  Second hand Cheech mist one night won‘t provide those concentrations.  Anyway, you‘re just getting the application.  It will be some time before you get the CFAT/medical/interview.


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## timbit

What kind of crap do they look for?


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## Marauder

You gotta be fu*king sh!ttin‘ me.

Timbit, if you‘re at a party with that much drug activity occuring, why the ****  not simply LEAVE?!?!?!

I wish the Army was more proactive & frequent with the drug testing. Might flush some of the more blatant ****heads who have so little self control as to get baked every single god**** weekend. I dislike sharing a trench with anyone who ever felt the need to break the laws of the society we swear to protect when we take the enlistment oath.


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## Bert

They look for a number of medical and non-medical charatertics, infections, imbalances and substances in the urine. Yes they check for the use of drugs, but also various deseases, infections, and imbalances create conditions in the urine that can be assessed chemically.  I doubt its super comprehensive though, just a rough check to see if the body is functioning well.  Usually everthing you consume or process through the body goes through the Willy.


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## timbit

The reason I did not leave is because I only had one Medical in mind that night by the girl I was with. I would find it hard to believe that none of you have done somthing  stupid to get a peice of A^%. It‘s part of being a guy the little head wins most of the time

Im not a pot head I can count the amount of times I have smoked it.

Thanks for the info Bert much appreciated(spelling)


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## WINDWOLF

Well,well,well, so i am not the only guy to think with my dink.Timbit, if you want to get anywhere in the service,start thinking with the other end.

Excuses like that may get you somewhere with the boys bit not with the officers/nco,s.Made the same mistake like you & served 6 mounths less a day @club edmonton.Not a enjoyable experiance.

Learn from my screw-up.I agree with Marauder,go big or stay @home.  :warstory:


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## combat_medic

If you test positive for drugs, they don‘t care if it‘s second hand or not. The main reason for that is that there‘s no way to prove it. Even a single joint smoked can take up to a month to get out of your system. If you‘re considering joining, wait at least a month until you go for the medical, and avoid pot (second hand or otherwise) completely.


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## timbit

It was stupid but also it was only second hand. I should have nothing to worry about.

Thanks guys


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## Danjanou

> but also it was only second hand. I should have nothing to worry about


Isn‘t that what Ross said at Salt Lake when they came for his Gold Medal?


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## Danno

Okay, so I go in to the armoury for the REG. mental and physical aptitude testing. After taking and passing the mental testing we were all given a form on which to fill in our previous drug use. We are warned to make sure that we are completely honest because if we are found to be lying we will be immediately discharged. So, I fill mine out to the very best of my knowledge. 
Ahâ€¦ yes, Marijuana. Memories of those dazed and confused days in high school come flooding back and were recorded honestly on to the form. It has now been 4 years since high school and my frequent use of the plant. Since then I have only partaken if it was being passed around at a party. I certainly donâ€™t buy it or use it regularly. I even promised myself I would not do it again when I decided to join the army, knowing full well the military restrictions on cannabis use. As it turns out, because that section of my form was filled in, I was asked to stay behind and have a chat with the officer in charge of the testing. He frowned and asked me about the frequency of my cannabis use since high school. â€œWell, I donâ€™t know?â€ I said. So he asks me to tell him on average how many times a month I do it. I only do it at parties and I donâ€™t go to more than a dozen parties a year, so I decide that if it has to be averaged then I guess its once a month. I was informed that this is, by CF standards, the frequency of a â€œLifestyle Cannabis Smokerâ€ and that I, therefore, cannot be trusted. I was told to return in 6 months and reapply. 

My issues are: I AM NOT A â€œLIFESYLE SMOKERâ€! I do not want to wait 6 months!(I have already waited long enough!) I donâ€™t know what to do and I need to know what I can do to change my situation. 

I know I will make an excellent soldier if I am just given the chance.

I am hoping that this has just been a misunderstanding. 

Please help!

Thank you,

Danno


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## shaunlin41

Listen, there is nothing you can do for right now.
This is something that you should have thought about before, to be a good soldier requires discipline and commitment something which you have shown you do not have.  you knew weed was not accepted and yet you still chose to use it.
I commend you on your honesty but hopefully a good lesson was learned and you can stay away from it for 6 months and then re apply.


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## WINDWOLF

Unfortunately Danno, Born is right.
You are screwed for 6.
High marks for the honesty.
There is no way to fight it,the army has
spoken & subject is closed for discussions.
Do your 6 & re-apply,do not back slide on your
promise to yourself & you will be good to go.

Sorry man.

Regards.


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## Jungle

I am hoping that this has just been a misunderstanding.

I don‘t think so... you knew pot was illegal, still you chose to use it.

Please help!

WHAT !?!?!? Someday, when you grow up, you will understand that we are responsible for our own actions. Accept the consequences.


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## Pte Lickers

All I can say is when you quit the first ttime you should have quit for good.  None of this passed around at parties ****.  I abused marijuana for the first three years of high school and then realized how retarded I was for doing it.  Three times day makes you dumber then a frozen rope and ill never regrow the burnt out pathways in my brain compleltly to where they were before.  I highly regret every drug I did in my teens and relaize not how stupid I was.

I quit cold turkey a year before Iknew I would be in and told the interviewer about my past use opf drugs.  He told me with my past they woulkd have to blood and yearn tests I told him help yourslef you wont find anything now, he said he was bluffing and we moved on.


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## Marek

Well cudos on your honesty!  Better have just 6 monthes to wait then never.  If you lied (which im not support of) then they probably wouldn‘t think anything about it, I dont even belive they check for it on the medical test (not 100% sure).  Its not like they would go out to your whole highschool asking everyone. Honesty is always the best though.  Well goodluck in your future CF carrer.


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## Dire

Don‘t worry Danno, same thing happend to me.


I had the CFAT/Medical a few weeks ago and was passed out that form. I told them I quit in march and that when I decided to join the army I quit using for good. Like you I was called to stay behind and was told to wait until OCT 03 and to call the Career officer to book another CFAT/medical.. 

I never regreat telling the truth I just got 3 more weeks to study up (get better mark) and workout.

It‘s funny sometimes people don‘t think about joining the army until later on in their lives and then their past haunts them.

When you filled out the thing did you say you smoked a joint that month?


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## shaunlin41

They certainly do check for pot in your urine test.


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## Marek

My mistake sorry.  But yes this could be a blessing, just take some time to study and workout.


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## Danno

Dire,

I told them the last time I did it was the first weekend of june.


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## Dire

See thats the problem right there Dano.

You gotta be clean for 6 months before you are eligible for the CF.

I said the last time was March so I gotta wait until October which is 6-7 months I would be clean from the last time I smoked pot.

Even know if you test me now I will be clean.

Urine test it takes 4-5 months.. Hair test takes 6+ months for THC to get outta your system.


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## Etown

Didn‘t you post this on the army forums last week?

I‘m judging be the fact that you are still seeking sympathy, that you‘ve decided to take my second option and whine to your friends till it all goes away.

Really I‘m not a jerk but do you really think you are helping yourself by dwelling on your mistakes? You ****ed up. You decided you wanted to smoke pot until the forces told you you couldn‘t. WELL NEWS FLASH, NO ONE EVER SAID IT WAS OKAY!!!My god, boy! Take your beating, you earned it!


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## Dire

First off, E-Town, you talking to me?

If you are; here is my response to you.

I don‘t seek sympathy because frankly I don‘t need it nor care for it. Dwelling on my mistakes? If you are talking about my post I was just sharing my experience to Dano of what happened to me and what the response was from the recruiter.

 I quit before I wanted to join the forces and respected the fact there is a no tolerance policy and I‘d obey it because frankly I could give two ****s if I ever smoke pot again. I havenâ€™t even given it a 2nd thought.

This forum was setup for people to share their experiences. This being a recruiters forum drug use is apart of it because it is an issue for joining the forces. Not everyone is clean, not everyone has never done a substance. People just have to realize their mistakes and correct them for the future.

I didnâ€™t know you had to be 6 months clean before you could be considered for the CF; I had to find out the hard way like Dano did. (But I did give myself a while for my system to clean and dano didnâ€™t)

So yes your post was jerky because talking to others does help yourself. When I first started posting on this forum I ask questions about the drug test ect. I gained valuable information which brought my confidence level up.

anyhow, I hope you rethink your post.

-Brandon


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## PilotGal

Danno,

Having to wait must suck. But I‘m glad you were honest with them. Time passes, but honesty is a thing that accompanies someone throughout their lives. 

I‘ve smoked weed a coupla times, just to try it. That was a couple of months back. I don‘t smoke it at all now. I did it out of curiosity, and decided that it was not worth sacrificing my future career either in policing or Army/Air Force for that. I also quit smoking cigarettes at the same time. 

I know what it feels like to have to wait. But, think about it, 6 months is not a big thing if you concentrate on your aims.  I wish I had ONLY 6 months to wait to apply, instead of 4 years! But the important thing is that if you are determined to get into the Canadian Forces, nothing will stop you - certainly not the 6 months of waiting.

Good luck.

D.


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## shaunlin41

Too much sympathy for pot heads!
If someone is that stupid to realize pot is not a good thing than who wants them...   Would you want to be next to someone in a trench or in the field wondering if they are going to get doped up if things get hard? not me, I think there are more important things to be concerned with.  If you couldn‘t stop smoking pot before you applied, than why would you stop once you got in?
And buy the way,  I find it very hard to believe you only smoked once a month or so at parties because if this was really the case it shows that either you have absolutly no commitment or discipline to quite or you smoke a he!! of a lot more than you let on and you couldn‘t quit either way I wouldn‘t want to be beside you,   but than again I don‘t have the luxury of that choice.


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## PilotGal

Born Military,

Not sympathy, just opinions and advice. 

I tend to agree with some of the points you made. Those who smoke weed shouldn‘t be in the army, and I think I agree with what they did in this case. Weed is a state of mind - i.e, if you see that it‘s useless, you don‘t smoke it, not even recreationally. If you don‘t see that, you smoke it. Of course, you‘re not gonna be screwed if you say that you tried smoking weed when you were like 16, just once or twice, but if you‘re still smoking, then that‘s pretty bad. I think those in the army shouldn‘t be dependent on anything like drugs, or whatever. But then again, the question to Danno is: if there was no such rule/law that prevents recreational pot smokers from joining the army, would you still smoke it recreationally when you got in? It all depends on your personality and character. Personally, I don‘t think I would. I don‘t think I even *want* to try it again, or any other sort of drug or even cigarettes. I know what is good and bad for me, and I know what I *want*. And weed is not one of the things I want. Like I said, I agree with the term "lifestyle cannabis smoker" in your case, Danno, because I think weed is only recreational, and not addictive. I‘ve smoked it more than once, and I didn‘t get addicted to it. So you see, it‘s all about what you *want* and what you *don‘t want*. If you had the goal of joining the Forces, you should‘ve stopped smoking a long long time ago, even if you knew that they wouldn‘t even bother asking you about it. Weed & Army == NOPE. Or rather, Addictions & Army == NOPE.

D.


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## klumanth

quote

"If you couldn‘t stop smoking pot before you applied, than why would you stop once you got in?"

Ok, I don‘t know about anyone else but I didn‘t sit around for six months once I decided I wanted to join the army.  I went down to the recruiting center and started the application process.  It was fortunate for me that I had already quit smoking pot for my own reasons about a year before.  Had I decided to join the army a year earlier I would be in the same position as Danno.  It wouldn‘t have been a matter of not being able to quit but of not knowing to quit.


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## Etown

Dire - No I wasn‘t talking to you, I‘m not sure how you‘ve got that impression. If you‘ve been paying attention I‘ve even suggested to others on this board to follow the positive example that you‘ve shown.

My post was directed at the owner of the thread. It seems to me that Danno didn‘t like any of the three pages of results from when he posted this exact (cut and paste) message on the army forum last week. 

Since we are cross-posting, here is my reply to his original post:


> Hey Danno,
> 
> If you really think you will be an excellent soldier you better learn to be patient, and trust me they are giving you a chance.
> 
> Keep in mind that the activity that you are talking about is still illegal in this country, and participating in illegal activities monthly doesn‘t exactly scream trustworthy. The point of the six month period is to see if you can actually buckle down and play by the rules. Now if you aren‘t willing to wait the six months and keep your nose clean you really don‘t stand much of a chance in the military.
> 
> So relax, keep your nose clean and use the time to your advantage. Get in shape so that when you finally get in you can breeze through basic. Volunteer in your community. Read every book on the army reading list cover to cover. Basically, make them sorry they didn‘t take you the first time, or you could whine to all your friends about how unfair life is and smoke up till all the pain goes away. Your choice.


I was not the only person to suggest that Danno use this time to his advantage, but it seems to me that a week later he is still looking for an easy way out. Does this sound like the makings of a good soldier to anyone? 
I‘m sure there are plenty of us who have run into the guy on course that fails room inspection but instead of fixing it takes out his ruler to prove that his bed was made to regulation. This is not the kind of behaviour that ever helps anybody out.

So I will apologize to you Dire, I should have been more clear in directing my criticism. Danno, to you, I stand by all my previous comments.


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## Dire

No sorry E-town, I will apologize to you.

Iâ€™m sorry; I thought the post was towards me, I guess I just read it wrong. 

But no hard feelings eh?

Later

-Brandon


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## dano

I had to wait a full year to re-apply and i hadent even got to the medical stages yet... i failed the apt test.. i‘m not the smartest branch of a tree but in one month my wait will be over and god forbid if i fail this time around!


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## dano

Oh and by the way I have ADD, i used to take rydialin but since moved to dextrine after knowing what rydalin can do to you, I found out that the US airforce put pilots on dextrine to keep them concritrated on a long task, what i‘m getting to is that the pilots that bombed our 4 canadians where on dextrine and they tryed to use that as an excuse, but if you ask me its not related to the medicaion at all if you have seen this thing work, you concintrate like never before, you could turn a hyper-fit child to a stone of silence if he takes these, so my qustion is, if i specified i had ADD and using dextrine, would that make things more difficult for me to get in?


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## Tpr.Orange

I used to be a very hardcore pot smoker between 2 and 3 times a day... When i finally decided to join the CF i quit Pot January 1st and planned to apply 6 months after. No problems...If you really want to join the cf after the 6 months is up reapply


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## zortag

Anyone else get a kick out of the caffeine part of that form?  My interviewing officer and I had a good laugh about my 21000 uses    

Then we had another good one that I waited till I was 21 to try marijuana for the first and only time.

Hope that you decide you can wait the six months and that all goes well.
(edit for spelling)


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## Danno

Thanks Willow.

Yes, I plan to re-apply when I have served my time.  Iâ€™m currently doing PT, volunteering, reading the books on the CF reading list and of course abstaining from using cannabis.  If anything, this experience has strengthened my resolve to become a soldier.    
 :soldier:


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## bkirk

Hey there,

I am a 17 year old from edmonton alberta. i have a few questions... First off what all is done in ur medical? And second is there any chance i can get stationed in cold lake, greenwood or edmonton for a sure thing? Thanks,

          Brad Kirk


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## Bringer

Medical is a pretty simple procedure. They test your hearing, your vision, your height and weight, then ask you questions about your medical history.

If you‘re going reg force infantry and request PPCLI you‘ll either be stationed in Edmonton (1 and 3) or Winnipeg.


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## bkirk

Sweet, do u know of any that would put me in cold lake or greenwood?


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## Redeye

There are no infantry battalions in either of those places - your choices are Petawawa (1RCR and 3RCR), Gagetown (2RCR), Edmonton (1PPCLI and 3PPCLI), Shilo (2PPCLI), and if you speak French, Valcartier (1,2,3 R22eR).


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## donkon

Whatr is the medical test? Is it a piss test? if yes what other test do they give you? Do they do a hair test? Thx


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## GrahamD

Suspicious questions!

Yes they give you a urine test.  No they don‘t take any hair samples.

The medical tests not only for drugs, but for vision, and hearing quality.  You need to have relatively good eyesight and hearing to be part of the combat arms.

They also give you a physical (without checking for hernias) and take down your medical history.  Unless you have always been a specimen of health, you will probably be asked to get some sort of information from your family doctor.  Could be anything, like your alergies, recent sports injuries, or long term illnesses.

Back to the hair test.  It shouldn‘t matter if they give you the test or not.  If there is something that you have taken that you fear will show up in a hair sample, then you are required to divulge that information during the interview phase anyway.  They ask you specifically what kins of drugs you have taken, and they even have a list that they bring out if you seem unsure, or slow to respond.
  You could lie I suppose..... but that is actually illegal, and could land you up to 2 years in prison.


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## donkon

Well i chill with lots of people that do smoke pot, my girl smokes pot and i am always around her and these buddies. So i think i might second hand smoke weed lol. Although i never felt anything. So i dont smoke it but what if they check something and it looks like i do? Hmm. Please help me out. I dont smoke pot or anything else that kills you.


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## Spartan

advice is to stay away from the pot smoke for a few weeks before your medical... that should help clean up anything that might be lurkin in your system...

*though  I don‘t know if pot would even get you in trouble with your medical... maybe someone knows...*


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## fusilier955

for a urine test marjuania takes about 3 months to get out of the system.  for a hair i dont know, and a blood test i heard that small traces remain for good so they could pick it up for years...  so be careful to what your friends do around you.  remember that olympic gold medalist in snowboarding in 98 that almost lost his medal due to testing positive on drugs, aparently that was second hand marjuania smoke from a house party...


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## GrahamD

> for a urine test marjuania takes about 3 months to get out of the system. for a hair i dont know, and a blood test i heard that small traces remain for good so they could pick it up for years... so be careful to what your friends do around you. remember that olympic gold medalist in snowboarding in 98 that almost lost his medal due to testing positive on drugs, aparently that was second hand marjuania smoke from a house party...


It‘s actually only 28 days that marijuana shows up in a urine sample for a casual smoker, and that is on the extreme side of caution.  For chronic smokers it can take longer, but I doubt there‘s any chronic marijuana smokers who would even bother to try to get into the military, since they probably spend a lot of time avoiding any type of physical labour.
  Obviously its a good idea to stay away from the second hand smoke regardless, but as long as maybe 10 days has gone by, I really wouldn‘t worry about it.  I get urine samples done at least once every month as part of medical research that I participate in where I need to avoid drugs and alcohol, and I‘ve gone in the day after concerts where the air was filled with marijuana, and even in an instance where I felt buzzed after too many people were smoking it directly in my vacinity.  I‘ve never had any traces show up.

If you‘re really, really worried about it, then drink a bunch of cranberry juice, or coffee (but not coffee because they are taking your blood pressure too), because the electrolytes in those are effective at masking a variety of substances, including THC.

As for Ross (olympic gold medalist snowboarder), the house party was what he had to say.  It‘s the only conceivable way he could justify having marijuana in his system, without having intentionaly put it there on his own.
  I don‘t think anyone who has ever snowboarded in B.C. anywhere, belived that story for even 1 second.
 The only two ways he could have been caught for THC, are:

 A.)  He was innocent and accidentaly inhaled massive amounts of marijuana at a house party, prior to leaving for Japan.  It‘s not like its odorless and undetectable and you don‘t know until its too late, if you have enough THC in your system to show up at a drug test from second hand smoke, then you were perfectly aware that there was a lot of pot smoking going on nearby.  For an olympic athlete only days away from competition (and drug testing), you would have to be really really stupid to just stand around in a cloud of illegal drug smoke.  It‘s not the likely scenario in my opinion.

B.) Ross is just like nearly every other snowboarder who resides full time in Whistler, and smokes loads of pot every single day.  He quits smoking pot when he qulifies for the olympics, but its not soon enough, and he still has trace amounts in his system.
  The thing about Ross is that he‘s not someone who grew up training to be an olympic athlete, who took it all so seriously that he abstained from any kind of drugs.  He‘s just a snowboarder like any other local ay Whistler, and smoking a lot of marijuana is a huge part of that lifestyle.

Do I think he was the fastest snowboarder in Japan that day?  Yes

Did the trace amounts of marijuana or possibly large amounts during his training help him to be the fastest snowboarder that day?  I seriously doubt it.

Should he have been given the gold medal after the house party story?  No, he had a banned substance in his blood.  Case closed.


----------



## donkon

They do a blood test once you go to BMQ, what about that test??


----------



## fusilier955

how long does THC stay in the blood stream for?  is it as long as ive been told?


----------



## Bert

Stuff found on the interent.

Second hand inhalation will not cause sufficent concentrations to fail a urine test.  Medium to long term use will.

(THC,Marijuana) 20-90 days

CANNABIS: 

A common misuse of  cannabis metabolite (THC-COOH) analysis is in the interpretation of changing concentrations of that metabolite.  After long term use of marijuana, the body fat contains a large amount of THC.  It then slowly leaches out of the fat, into the blood, then into the liver, where it is converted to THC-COOH.  The  THC-COOH is then excreted into the urine.  This results in decreasing THC-COOH concentrations in the urine.  In a major study by the US Navy, it was found that it can take two months after the last marijuana use for the urine to become "negative" for THC-COOH.  During the last two weeks or so, it is quite reasonable to expect that the urine will alternate between "positive" and negative." That is, that the concentration will be slightly above, then slightly below the cut-off value.  This is due to normal metabolic effects, such as subject state of hydration and weight loss.  It also is due to the definition of "positive" and "negative."  If a urine sample is found to contain even one ng/mL less than the cutoff level, it is termed to be "negative."  If it is one ng/mL greater than the cutoff level, it is termed "positive."  Note that with modern instrumentation, such as HPLC/MS/MS, it is quite possible to detect less than 1ng/mL THC-COOH.  Therefore, the time after last use may be greater than that found in the Navy study, which used a much higher concentration for the cut-off level.


----------



## Duotone81

I remember during my interview back in the day (a medical problem prevented me from joining the 2nd Irish Regiment) the PO told me to stay clear of anyone or situation that would cause me any sort of legal problems that would reflect badly on the CF and myself. He was basically saying what your parents tell you all through high school and that is stay away from the drugs. It‘s a CF policy, you have the choice. Follow their rules or find employment elsewhere. If you‘re uptight that you inadvertently inhaled something that is banned from the CF, then wait a few months and during your interview don‘t forget to bring up your situation. 

Good luck


----------



## Bert

Granted, the CF has a policy towards drug use and people who use drugs have a choice to make.

For the people who do not use drugs and unintentionally inhale second hand pot smoke on occasions will not fail a urine test.  THC concentrations are so minimal. Reporting this is certainly discretionary but hardly worth bring up.

In my old apartment building, there was a tenant about five doors down from me on the same floor.  Every other night they would light up and the smell of burnt leaves was distinct in the hallway.
Sometimes you could just smell it in the apartment.  Eventually they moved on.  Like heck I‘m was going to tell the Recruiter/Medical NCO I get second-hand pot smoke from some jerk down the hall. In any case, the urine test never stopped my application process.

Incidently there is an amusing story of the pot-heads, opening their door, trying to assist an old lady and her groceries, and the arrival of the Ottawa Fire Department and associated EMS. For another time.


----------



## fusilier955

this sounds good...


----------



## GhostRecce

But no member of the PLF would have an worries would they...


----------



## Da_man

Its the only test i have left to do and i just want to know what it is exacly.  I would like to know about the Assessment test too.


----------



## Joel85

What is it you ask?

It‘s a flawed, bureaucrated process that aims to screw people in every way possible.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Bert

The medical part of the application process to be determine if you are medically fit to join the CF.

They sample your urine, ask you about your medical history, check your body for mechanical
problems (leg, foot, arm, etc), check your breathing, heart rate, and eye sight.  Its a minimum verification to discover if you‘re medically fit enough to perform rigorous actions, work under stress, and quantify your medical characteristics with your chosen MOCs.

If they discover issues or problems, like you need glasses, have high blood pressure, or something that requires further clarification, you may be asked to go to a civilian doctor to be checked and have forms filled out. The forms may request a medical opinion from a civy doctor that you are or are not medicially fit given the issue.  The form is returned to the CFRC to complete the medical process.  

For me, the process was routine except I had to get my eyes checked by a civy doctor as I wear glasses.  A form had to be filled out by the eye doctor and sent to the CFRC.  Usually the civy doctors charge a fee for signing forms.

After all the information is provided  to and gathered at the CFRC, the medical info is sent off to CFB Borden (or somewhere) for enterance and MOC assessment. 

If successful or not, they‘ll contact you with the results.  It may take a a good month for the assessment to complete.


----------



## cheechue

You forgot to mention that there is a hearing test. Also for the vision test you will also be tested for colour blindness


----------



## Bert

Yes I did. My apologises.  Late night posting can be hazardous to content.

For the hearing test, the best way to give them accurate results when you enter the sound testing booth is to clear your mind and close your eyes.  
Since your vision is reduced, you‘ll focus the mind better and detect lower volume tones at various audio frequencies.


----------



## koalorka

The medical assesment was the easiest part of the application process, they want to know if you are "mechanically" reliable, ask you for any injuries, allergies, surgery etc. If you‘ve had any broken bone, tell them too.


----------



## jutes85

Yeah, if you tell them that you had a broken bone they will send you to do tests apon tests.


----------



## yot

I did the med test today... ya, all most what u guys said. But he didn‘t check my heart rate, or any brething problem, he just asked a list of question, like do I have any broken bone or surgery beofre...and medical history. He also took my height and weight. And tested my eye, hearing... and urine.


----------



## SEB123

What are they testing in this test, what they look for and what they do.

thanks 
SEb


----------



## cathtaylor

Hi Seb;
There‘s been a few posts on this subject so if you search the threads you‘ll find all kinds of information on this.
Good luck.
Cath


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Thx Cath,
Great advise. Do a search first. Now if we could just get everyone else to play along. For the rest of our forum members, take a page from Cath. If you see something being asked that‘s been done before, tell the person to do a search and let the thread die. Thx.


----------



## jimbah

I just did the CFAT this morning, then on the drug questionnaire, I told them that I did marijuana a few times a month but I havent touched it in a month because thats when I found out that it was tested for.  They told me that they want everyone to be clean for 6 months.  

I really want to be in the reserves this summer, I applied for Ceremonial Guards.  I was only an occasional smoker, and only because I never had a reason to quit.  I know that I can go the rest of my life without touching it, and I was wondering if there was any way to get them to listen to me on this.  

Is there any sort of appeal for this stuff??  A contract I can sign maybe??  If anyone knows of anything that could get me in this summer, it would be appreciated.

I know that I can go back in 6 months and they‘ll take me, but is there a way to be in this summer??


----------



## GrahamD

No.

6 months means 6 months.

It‘s the same for everyone. They are not in a hurry to hire anyone who smoked drugs as little as 4 weeks ago.


----------



## humint

Not a chance, my friend. You‘ll have to wait six-months and start again. Don‘t worry, though, they‘ll be offering weekend basic courses starting this Oct and again in Jan, so you won‘t be that far behind.


----------



## James Wood

I had to fill that thing out this morning as well, I told them the last time i smoked weed was in 2002, so i guess I am in the clear. It sucks that even with your dedication to the army that you still have 2 wait 6 months. I have a friend who wants to join the amry really bad but he can‘t stop smoking the stuff so hes screwed.


----------



## Michael OLeary

> I really want to be in the reserves this summer, I applied for Ceremonial Guards. I was only an occasional smoker, and only because I never had a reason to quit.


And the fact that it was an illegal behaviour wasn‘t sufficient reason? This speaks not only to the use of drugs but also your respect for your legal expectations as a citizen. What is the military to expect if you are demonstrating that the only suitable reasons in your opinion for you to change your behaviour is personal benefit, such as getting enrolled. Demonstrate your commitment by staying clean for the six months and then try again.


----------



## Infanteer

> I really want to be in the reserves this summer, I applied for Ceremonial Guards. I was only an occasional smoker, and only because I never had a reason to quit.


Bang on, sir.

Dumbah, the Hells Angels thank you for your generous contribution....


----------



## Matt0304

I filled that out on Friday aswell.  I put that I tried it back in Sept. 2000, so I guess that isn‘t a big deal.


----------



## spenco

the last time i did that was three months ago, i emailed CFRC Vancouver a few weeks ago to see if this would be a problem and they told me that this determination was done on a case by case basis by your interviewer... is this correct because it conflicts with what is said above.


----------



## brneil

6 months is a minimum in order for CFRC to have confidence in you, remember it is illegal and because of that reflects on perceived reliability.


----------



## cathtaylor

> Originally posted by Infanteer:
> Dumbah, the Hells Angels thank you for your generous contribution.... [/QB]


    hehehe


----------



## Scratch_043

I myself am clean, I tried it once or twice, but what I am really concerned about is that I was recently at a party, and although I myself did not smoke, others around me were fairly heavily. Will that impact my ability to pass my medical, or can I explain to them the specific circumstance??

I am really counting on getting into the CF, and was not aware of the drug testing(stupid me) so did concern myself with the fact that others around me smoked.

Also, I deliver Pizza, and as you can imagine, you get all kinds, including those who smoke themselves stupid, so I regularily am exposed to the smoke.

Thank you anyone for your information concerning my dilemma.

Regards.


----------



## CWeb26F

Hi ToRN,

I found this link with some info if you scroll down to the bottom- summaries of studies done. Basically, it is possible to test positive, especially if you were exposed to second-hand smoke in a poorly-ventilated area.

I myself have had to avoid the Hemp oil I was taking for the Omega-3 fatty acids, as it states it is possible, but not likely, to test positive for THC in urine.

 http://www.healthwatcher.net/Olympics/olympics.html


----------



## GrahamD

You won‘t test positive for marijuana use if you aren‘t exposed to enough of it to get high.
(as a rule of thumb)

As for wether you smoked it or not, if you DO test positive after telling them you aren‘t going to, then you‘re in trouble.

It‘s your responsibility to move to cleaner air at a party if the air is becoming filled with marijuana smoke, and standing at someones door handing them a pizza could not possibly expose you to enough smoke to give you a positive test.


----------



## Scratch_043

ok thanks, that really had me worried, I didn‘t think that the pizza delivery thing would have any effect, but the party was a concern.

hopeing that since my test hasn‘t even been scheduled yet, it will be sufficiently out of my system.


----------



## pte anthony

If it helps Torn I have a freind out on parole and he is around heavy smokers all the time in cars with windows up **** like that. I asked him if he tested positive on his mandatory or suprise tests he explained to me that he was suprised by a test the day after he had been out with a few friends in the car and took when results returned they were nil.


----------



## Scratch_043

thanks, that is reassuring.


----------



## spenco

if i did go and it wasnt six months what would they do? make me submit an entirely new application or would they just rebook an appointment for a month later? or could i just ask to delay entire application for a month or two citing "personal" reasons?


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Look guys, if you want to join the military, you can‘t do drugs. If you do, the old saying "you pays your monies and you takes yer chances" applies. We‘ve been over this before. There‘s been lot‘s of discussion. Do a search. We‘re not here to provide you with an optimum quit date in order to pass your test or show you ways of beating the system. If your serious about changing your life and taking a job with the military, clean your self up before you go to the recruiter, and that doesn‘t mean the day before.
I‘m closing this up.


----------



## Sine22

I am planning on applying to the CF pretty soon but i have smoked pot and also done mushrooms before.  Been almost a year since last doing mushrooms and about a month a nd a half since smoking pot (not smoking anymnore by the way).  I was wondering if anyone knows if this might affect my chances of getting in.  Is there a set amount of time that you need to wait before applying or would I be excluded outright?  If anyone has any suggestions or comments they would be most welcome.  Thanks for any help.

Cheers


----------



## The_Falcon

6 months min wait (thats what I was told when I joined 4 years ago) for smoking weed, mushrooms? Don‘t have a clue. Could it effect your chances of getting in, most definitely yes.  The CF does not look kindly on people who abuse drugs.


----------



## Sine22

I wouldn‘t call it abuse.  More along the lines of tried them out a couple of times with no intention of ever doing them again.

Thanks for the info though.


----------



## Infanteer

Well, don‘t bother walking into the recruiting office anytime soon.  Drug use as recent as yours brings your ethical standards into questions.  Stay clean for another six months and than try.


----------



## Jason Bourne

When I had my interview the Warrent asked how recent my drug use was, I said about 8 months prior. However, I also did say I did it with intentions of never doing it again. I‘m sure they are also looking for people with life experience, thats a life experience I guess


----------



## Excolis

i think you will be fine.   they will give you a list of about 150 drugs.....  if you are clean and present yourself nice.  you should have no problem getting in.


----------



## GrahamD

> When I had my interview the Warrent asked how recent my drug use was, I said about 8 months prior. However, I also did say I did it with intentions of never doing it again. I‘m sure they are also looking for people with life experience, thats a life experience I guess


They do not exclude people outright for having done drugs in the past, however to think that they consider getting high a valuable life experience is.... silly.

Everyone knows the military policy is 6 months abstinence from marijuana use to be considered for recruitment.  There‘s no point trying to explain that you don‘t intend to do it agian, they will still make you wait 6 months.

As for mushrooms, that is more at the discretion of the interviewer.  Psilocybin (one of the main active ingredients [along with Psilocin] that gets you high in a magic muchroom) is a psychoactive compound that can have long lasting effects on your brain, including flashbacks, depression, paranoia.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Lol...alright that was a mis-phrase maybe not a valuable life experience. I‘m glad I didn‘t do it marijuana again I‘m sure I would have been told to wait 6 months. Phew


----------



## James Wood

i heard its 3 years since your last hallusine, ie mushrooms.


----------



## tree hugger

Pretty sure you‘re right Murray.


----------



## soon to be infantry

hey guys, its actually 2 years, When I was 20 I was at the club one night and a guy was goin around putting Ecstesy in peoples drinks. I ended up drinking my beer and that was that. I have always wanted to be a police officer so have never even smoked a joint in my life, just this one incident. Anyways, being an honest individual
I told the Officer doing the interview exactly what happened that night, I had done it a year before the interview and she deffered me for a year. She said it is 2 years min, and possibly complete denial ever in the armed forces. I know that dose happen as well because it happened to one of the guys who was at the same stage in his interview process. He was told not to come back. The armed forces dosnt need people who do drugs, theres so many strong applicants with no past drug history. Sine 22 I reccomend waitomg at least 6 months before applyong or your just goin to be deffered, possibly for much longer. Just keep that in mind before applying.


----------



## Jarnhamar

"theres so many strong applicants with no past drug history"

Seems to me most of the people enquiring about joining have done drugs in the past, according to the posts anyways.


----------



## CDNBlackhawk

I think most people in General have tried Drugs at one point in their life,


----------



## Sine22

Thanks for the info everyone.  Just one other thing: do these times and issues that everyone has quoted apply to both officers and NCM‘s?  I will be applying under the DEO and will this cause more issues for me as a result?  Thanks again it has been most useful.

Cheers


----------



## brneil

The fact is that by using drugs you enage in an illegal activity which has a negative effect on your reliability.  Obviously if you have an extended period of time without using your reliability increases. 

Evidence of drug use is akin to having a criminal record (not a big surprise since it is illegal) and is treated that way by the CF.

That being said the CF recognizes that people make mistakes in their lives and can still be productive members of the CF.

As for officers vs. NCMs I believe the standards are the same but character and reliabilty is looked at more in depth for the officer applicants initially.


----------



## dave_conolly

I know when i went I was fully honest saying when I started smoking weed, when I stopped and how many times I did it.  Last time I did it was August and definatly don‘t want to do it again.  I was honest about my underage drinking     but even though I don‘t drink too much.  Basically it seemed as though the CF wants to know if you are honest or not, best way is to tell the truth and no lies.  :gunner:


----------



## SFontaine

I‘ve engaged in underage drinking and I want to be entirely truthful to these guys when I go for my interview. Think I‘ll get busted for telling them?


----------



## dave_conolly

Underage drinking isn‘t a big deal, I am guessing they expect it.  Think its smart to lie to the Canadian forces?


----------



## SFontaine

Oh I‘ll definantly tell them, I was just wondering if I would get in trouble for it.


----------



## Exvitae

No one has asked me yet - when do they do this?  They‘re doing the background check on me right now.  I haven‘t smoked anything in almost three years and, even then, it was less then a handful of times so I‘m not worried at all... I just want to be upfront about my past.  I read a post that said something about signing a declaration or something or do they just ask you in the interview?  Got to be honest, always.


----------



## brneil

The declaration often takes place after taking the CFAT.  But I know of people who were asked during interviews as well.


----------



## Lajeunesse

Yes you have to sign a declaration stating which drugs you‘ve used (including caffine, nicotine..ect.) how many times you used/use and then you sign the bottom stating that which you have written is truthful to the best of your knowledge. Oh and after you sign this in the case you get caught using you can/could be charged federaly and you can ruin your chances of ever getting into the army again.
Hope that helps some. Oh and make sure you tell the truth its really not worth the puishment, if your caught lying. I know they do the initale pee test at your medical but do they do another after you‘ve started Basic...just curious


----------



## dave_conolly

I hear once your in they just give you random pee tests.


----------



## shaun_bougie

> Originally posted by SFontaine:
> [qb] I‘ve engaged in underage drinking and I want to be entirely truthful to these guys when I go for my interview. Think I‘ll get busted for telling them? [/qb]


Underage drinking isn‘t a criminal offence so I would suggest you‘d be fine.  I can‘t say 100% for certain but I‘m pretty sure it‘s no big deal.  I don‘t think they look too harshly upon provincial offences.  It would be the same as getting a speeding ticket if you got caught.


----------



## AlphaCharlie

The guy who interviewed me was like "it said on your form you‘ve smoked marijuwana?" and I was like "yes, about 4 months ago" and he was like "well you know in the CF there is a zero tolerance policy and you cant ever do drugs while in the CF?"... I replied "absolutly" and he was like "ok good. next topic...."


----------



## Pract

Hey.. Im joining the army reserves BUT for the first time five days ago i tried cannibus.  How will this affect me when i go for my apathy test and they test my blood and all that?  

I tried it because i wanted to know what the experince was like so i could educate myself, others and my kids in the future.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

STAT!


----------



## Jarnhamar

LOL
So would you shoot yourself in the head if you wanted to see what it feels like or educate other people?

Tried drugs? You wont be joining the army any time soon.


----------



## dann0

Wait 6 months.


----------



## sdimock

Pract,

"I tried it because i wanted to know what the experince was like so i could educate myself, others and my kids in the future. "

Part of your new education is accepting responsibility for your actions.

Tell your recruiter the truth and reason, then take the result.

That was a silly (that‘s as polite as I can put it) thing to do.

At the very least you‘ve set yourself back 6 months in the application process and added a negative aspect to your file.


----------



## AlphaCharlie

How far are you into the recruiting process?


----------



## Pract

Im ready to go for my apathy test....


----------



## Jarnhamar

You WERE ready.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

I think you just passed your APATHY test with flying colours    
I think you will probably still have to take the APPTITUDE test though


----------



## FutureTroopie

> Originally posted by Pract:
> [qb]five days ago[/qb]


......that isn‘t good dude.

I have a question. Why in gods name would you smoke weed when you clearly knew you would be heading to the army and that theres 0 tolerance?? I mean come on, I‘m not going to lie I use to smoke occasionally but that was before my decision to enlist(7 months ago), I‘ve been clean since. If you truly were serious about enlisting you wouldn‘t have pulled something like this.

Besides, Beer > Weed
Good luck explaining the THC in your blood...


----------



## Pikache

Recruiting forum question. Off it goes.


----------



## Duotone81

What is this "apathy" test you speak of?


----------



## AlphaCharlie

> [qb]Originally posted by FutureTroopie_Brad:
> Besides, Beer > Weed
> [/qb]


Vodka > Beer


----------



## patt

just a question whats with all the drug topic? like really if u wanna use drugs go ahead and screw around with ur life/career just be warned if u can get in the military without them knowing they will find out soon or later


----------



## soon to be infantry

STUPID


----------



## donkon

What the **** is STAT??? I heard it around but never found out what it is?


----------



## webster

Be honest when filling out the sheet they give u about drug use...be honest to the recruiter when he/she asks the question, and see what happens...you never know.
You‘ll feel better later knowing that u didn't lie.


----------



## buffboyali

Hey all i passed my CFAT     and Im going for my medical test on May 21. Any tips on what I should do or expect and is there 2 medical tests or one?


----------



## greymatter

I passed today too!! Woo!
May 11th is my medical..


----------



## GrahamD

1 medical exam.

You will be tested for hearing and vision.
You will be urine tested.
You will be given a relatively detailed physical examination by a med tech.
You will be asked to give your medical history, including your prior drug use.

You won‘t be blood tested, or have to to remove your underwear (ie to be checked for hernia‘s etc.)

There‘s not really anything you can do to prepare for a medical examination.
You might want to avoid caffiene, in case they take blood pressure readings, but I don‘t remember if they do.


----------



## Mat-V

As GrahamD said, nothing you can really do to prepare yourself. They will take your blood pressure so try to be as relaxed as possible. 

Don‘t worry it‘s very easy.


----------



## ab136

when you get your hearing tested..hold you breath til you hear the sound. I was panting away and I‘m sure I missed a few sounds.


----------



## rdschultz

My medical had two parts.  The first was answering the questions the medic asked me, doing the vision and hearing tests, and the urine thing.  For the second part, I went to a doctors office, and had a basic physical examination.


----------



## RJG

That hearing test is hard. My earphones kept slipping and the noise it made from rubbing my hair was louder than those stupid beeps. And after a while I didn‘t know if I was imagining the beeps or if they were real.


----------



## Bert

To add what RJG about the hearing test, its better to close your eyes and clear your mind in the isolation booth.  Especially close your eyes. Its easier to concentrate on low volume tones.


----------



## MP1

The hearing test was hard?...pal your in for some obvious difficulties if you thought a hearing test is difficult


"buck up little soldier"


----------



## Bert

No, what RJG said is quite possible.  If the earphones don‘t fit properly, outside noise leaks in, or the testee is nervous and figity, its possible to miss low volume test tones once they start.  

After getting in the booth, take time for setting up (headphones and a comfortable position) for best results and let the staff know once you are ready.


----------



## bossi

Yup - sometimes the hearing test isn‘t perfect, depending on how it‘s administered - they were going to lower my hearing category as a result of my pre-deployment medical - however, I just re-tested on Friday and ... magically, my hearing is back to normal (hmmm ...)



> RJG said: ... earphones kept slipping and the noise it made from rubbing my hair was louder than those stupid beeps


(chuckle) I‘m sooooo tempted to joke about "long-haired hippie freaks" just for fun ... but won‘t.
RJG is correct - the earphone/headset was rubbing against the collar of my uniform (and my skull - I‘m folically challenged) until I adjusted it - fortunately, the medic was patient and waited until I‘d finished fidgeting and gave him the thumbs up.


----------



## chriscalow

Find out all the information of past illness and medications (as specific as possible)  ie: dates, doses, etc.  The hearing test, you could wear earplugs for as much as you can before going to the centre.  I don‘t know if it will actually help, but when I go to work, I wear them, and when they come off everything is loud.  Good luck.


----------



## dwyer.sd

Close your eyes and open your mouth, the mouth thing actually stretches your eardrums tighter so that you can hear better.  An old patrolling tip for night ops, has saved my bacon at least twice that I heard things before others or the staff.  The earplugs work but it will be of limited value if you are doing all of your processing in one day, you need them out for the e-cfat the PT and the interview, depending on where your medical fits, you most likely will be out of luck.


----------



## buffboyali

Sorry if this topic already exsists...what excatly happens in the medical test. Do you just go there to pee in a cup and than go home?


----------



## Tyrnagog

this has been covered many times in many various threads.  Do a search.  If you have any further specific questons, please feel free to ask them then...


----------



## buffboyali

yeah sorry about that I just saw it:S. But I wear contact lenses. Theysaid not to wear within 24hrs of the test. Should I bring my glasses?


----------



## fusilier955

It is that and a few questions about your medical history.  There are threads that have asked these questions and if you search around on this site you can see there is a wealth of information for the recruitment process among other things related to the Canadian Army.


----------



## Tyrnagog

did a quick search, using contact lenses as criterion...

 http://army.ca/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/16/56? 

Yes, I would bring your glasses, because if you need contacts to see... without them, you would prooly need the glasses, hey?

They will test your vision without the glasse to see how bad your vision really is.


----------



## Baskin

is it like a drug test? what do they test for with the urine sample?


----------



## chriscalow

I think they check for traces of blood and sugar levels, things like that.  They didn‘t check for dope, but they ask.  Don‘t lie.


----------



## Baskin

yah, i filled out that drug sheet and told them everything.


----------



## Baskin

I have my interview/medical on the 13th is that PT too?


----------



## GrahamD

> I think they check for traces of blood and sugar levels, things like that. They didn‘t check for dope, but they ask. Don‘t lie.


Don‘t count on them not checking for drugs.  When I did mine they used a multi test strip which checks for a number of different drugs all at the same time.


----------



## dave_conolly

You need to know when you got chiken pox etc.  I had no clue when I was asked..


----------



## GrahamD

I‘ll just post this in here, since the thread is titled Medical.  A little off topic for this thread but better than starting another.

Well, 11 weeks after being told my medical file was sent to Borden and that I could expect it back within 3 weeks, I called last Friday and discovered that they "forgot" to inform the medical department after my interview that it was time to send my file.

Therefore I have been patiently waiting for 3 months for a file that hadn‘t even been sent yet.  What‘s worse, is that I called several times during those 11 weeks for updates and was informed that my file "was still in Borden".

I wish that the recruiting process wasn‘t so much like a game of broken telephone.

Basically what I learned from this experience is that the recruitment process depends as much on you as it does the people handling your file.  You can‘t just accept what you‘re told at face value, you need to press them into checking things out, even at the cost of getting yelled at. 

At first I found it hard to believe that so many people had a story about their files being "lost", but now, realising how much a file is passed around from station to station, and responsibility being switched around with every pass, it‘s no big mystery to me why they seem to have trouble keeping track.


----------



## cathtaylor

My Medical came back last week with a Green Light! It took a little over 6 weeks! Now I‘m hoping that ERC dose‘nt take too long. I do realize that it may take time and so I will wait patiently.


----------



## girlfiredup

Hmmm...interesting.. considering mine hasn‘t gone to Borden yet, the chances of me making it to Shilo for June 28th would be a miracle.  But, miracles can happen.     I‘m not giving up.  The medical officer said he would put "priority" on my file.  Hopefully that will speed things up.  I do know of someone that squeeked in at the last minute so you never know.


----------



## cathtaylor

Your right Girlfiredup! Yah never know!


----------



## chrisf

> Originally posted by ab136:
> [qb] when you get your hearing tested..hold you breath til you hear the sound. I was panting away and I‘m sure I missed a few sounds. [/qb]


This is ridiculous... the tests are designed so that a reasonably healthy person can pass them. If you can‘t hear the sounds while breathing normally, you have hearing loss.


----------



## Baskin

hmm i found the hearing test rather easy..
just be relaxed and zone out and just lisen for the tone.
Easy as cake.


----------



## GrahamD

Just press even when you think you MIGHT hear something. You don‘t fail just because you pressed at the wrong time or missed a few.
If you THINK you hear something, you probably do, even if you‘re not sure.
Even people with exceptional hearing will stop hearing the beeps when the decibles get low enough, that‘s what the test is designed to do, is to see where your limits are.  You can‘t really cheat at the test, but you can cheat yourself out of some hearing range if you are getting panicky or otherwise not focusing on the task of listening.

You may have slight hearing loss at certain frequencies, but not during others, so don‘t get freaked out when you stop hearing sounds after only a few seconds or something.
Just stay relaxed and prepared to push the button the very next time you hear something.


----------



## Andyd513

GirlFiredUp:

The Review Board will concentrate on reserve medical files as the summer dates for BMQ/SQ are coming up. Thats what my unit recruiter told me.

Thankfully my medical came back about 2 weeks ago!!

I talked to my Sgt. and he told me my spot was secured in the unit for summer basic, and that I‘d be going to Shilo on the June 28th. He also said I‘m being sworn in on May 27th and that the CFRC would be in contact with me on details about the ceremony (where, what to wear, who to bring, etc..).

Now the 27th is 6 days away, and CFRC hasn‘t contacted me. Should I give them a call?


----------



## Baskin

yah i was told they would be contactin me on the 27th as well,
he said they‘ll be calling during the day ,right up till the 27th so just wait it out and see, then call on the 27th if you havn‘t heard anything


----------



## mkymk

CathTaylor and GFiredup, are you joining regular or reserves? I‘m from Ottawa and I‘m looking to get into basic on June 28th as well. My medical was sent 2 weeks ago but I have yet to hear anything back. what‘s ERC and where is Shilo?


----------



## nULL

it‘s not your breathing that will trip you up, it‘s your heartbeat, especially if you‘re nervous. If you‘re not sure you heard it, press the button. But yeah, it‘s reather easy. I got a "1" despite listening to loud music through expensive headphones almost daily.

I highly doubt I‘ll make it for the summer, but september is looking good.


----------



## Andyd513

CFB Shilo is located near Brandon, Manitoba (SW section of Manitoba near the US border).

All communication reservists will do their bmq/sq there.


----------



## kbowes

Andy_d, glad to hear you‘re good to go for Shilo. I think my medical has been approved (although I‘m not 100%). I spoke to my Sgt. yesterday and she‘d just spoken to Borden. I guess there‘s a pending issue with my back‘gd/reliability. She said she didn‘t have any details but that they would be contacting me hopefully within 1 week.

Do you know if the CFRC has contacted your char references?

K.


----------



## Andyd513

CFRC didn‘t contact any of my references. But, I have lived at the same street address for the past 14 yrs and have only been to 1 primary school, 1 high school, and 1 college with 3-4 jobs so I assume my reliability check was fairly easy.

Also I began the application process in November, due to some medication I was on my medical wouldn‘t clear until I had been off it for about 1 month and returned post-medication blood tests.

So they had my references, interview, physical results etc since early December (re did my physical in March for better scores just before my medical was sent away).

But no, to my knowledge none of my previous employers or referencee‘s were contacted.

I do hear as comm reservists being priviledged with almost every piece of communication going between units we may be targetted with a more thorough security check when we come back though.

Then again, my friend could be talking out of his *** about it


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

Yup, your friend was right...you‘ll have to fill out a LONG form and find more referances so that you can get a more detailed security check done on you by CSIS, whicih you‘ll need for your security clearance. (Ah, the joys of being a sig op)


----------



## kbowes

> Originally posted by Pte. Bloggins:
> [qb] Yup, your friend was right...you‘ll have to fill out a LONG form and find more referances so that you can get a more detailed security check done on you by CSIS, whicih you‘ll need for your security clearance. (Ah, the joys of being a sig op) [/qb]


Pvt. Bloggins, would such a check have to be done before the individual can be accepted into bmq?

Thanks,
K.


----------



## Pte. Bloggins

Nope, my forms just got sent away early this year. It takes a really long time, I‘ve been told.


----------



## Bobby147

In my medical they tested Eye sight, hearing, blood pressure, height, weight, and took my urine sample. Is my medical complete? I mean they did not take any X-ray or blood sample !!!!   ???


----------



## phalen

theres no needles involved so no bloodtest, and they just ask u if uve broken any bones so no x-ray.
but u should of gone thru a physical test too.


----------



## Bobby147

I still have to go to Physical Test.  Right now I can do 20 push ups (continuously) and 20 sit ups (with 30 sec. rest after 15)  ....  I am worried about sit ups.... They say there is no time limit but I guess I must do it continuously....  Well, may be in two weeks I will appear in Physical Test too.....   ^-^


----------



## phalen

for mine, we had 1 minute to do as many sit-ups as possible.
and when i said physical i meant a medical physical, where u strip down to ur boxers and the medic preforms a number of tests, such as looking at ur ears, eyes, mouth, makeing u touch ur toes and so on


----------



## MikeM

You only have 1 minute for situps, so do as many as you can without resting


----------



## Bobby147

Thanx guys.... 

Does the same thing apply to push-ups too???

I mean in one minute as many push ups as possible ???


----------



## Chalcey

Bobby147,   there is no time limit for the pushups just do as many as you can while keeping proper form. As mentioned, there is a one minute time limit for the situps. Dont stress too much about the situps, my tester told me he's never had anyone fail the situp portion of the test. Do focus on the proper form of the pushups because that is where people have trouble, you want to make sure each one counts


----------



## Northern Touch

Chalcey said:
			
		

> Bobby147,   there is no time limit for the pushups just do as many as you can while keeping proper form. As mentioned, there is a one minute time limit for the situps. Dont stress too much about the situps, my tester told me he's never had anyone fail the situp portion of the test. Do focus on the proper form of the pushups because that is where people have trouble, you want to make sure each one counts



I was told to stop doing my push ups and sit ups after I reached 20.


----------



## Bobby147

Thanx ALL....  You know I was delaying my Physical Test as I was not very confident about sit-ups  :-\.....  Now I feel more confident ....  Thank you for your support and advice....


----------



## nbk

Northern Touch said:
			
		

> I was told to stop doing my push ups and sit ups after I reached 20.



Same here. After 20 I looked up at him, did 21, 22 and he says "Thats enough! You Passed! Stop now!" 

Do you really have to touch your toes? I just tried and I can only get to my ankles, while keeping my legs straight, but I am pretty damn tall. Or do they tell you to bend over so they can...umm...inspect you from behind like they do before you go into prison? I have my medical in 2 weeks or so.


----------



## phalen

u never take off ur boxers...
if u can't touch ur toes thats fine, they just want to see that u can streatch all ur muscles..
u have to walk around on ur toes, then on ur heals, look up, look left, basically just move every part of ur body so they can check, stuff like that

when i was doing the push-ups i stoped at 19 and he told me to keep going till i can't do them anymore


----------



## Goober

Bobby147 said:
			
		

> I still have to go to Physical Test.   Right now I can do 20 push ups (continuously) and 20 sit ups (with 30 sec. rest after 15)   ....   I am worried about sit ups.... They say there is no time limit but I guess I must do it continuously....   Well, may be in two weeks I will appear in Physical Test too.....     ^-^



Continue doing situps like that twice a day, soon you will see you can do 30 without stopping, then if you continue, 40, 50. It doesn't take long to get your abs in shape, after a month you'll be ready. Do pushups whenever you can, atleast once a day, twice would be better. Take a day off every now and again, like once a week.


----------



## Fogpatrol 1.0

What about the running part?   Do they make you run 2.4km under 11 minutes or I read that wrong?


----------



## Bobby147

Fogpatrol, Running part is checked through Step Test. Please check the DND recruitment website for more information.

I have a question for other people who have passed Physical Test....

How much time it might take (approximately) for Physical Test ???  I have to take break from work....  may be I will take half day off.


----------



## spenco

How much time it might take (approximately) for Physical Test ???   I have to take break from work....   may be I will take half day off.


It took my 30-45 mins once i got there and the tests started


----------



## Bobby147

Thanks Spanco   :warstory:


----------



## Northern Touch

Bobby147 said:
			
		

> How much time it might take (approximately) for Physical Test ???  I have to take break from work....  may be I will take half day off.



Once I got in it took maybe half an hour, and this was with another person doing it at the same time.  Just make sure you mention that you are taking a break from work, just to see if there on time.  I told them I would have to go back to school for class and they got me in there as soon as possible.


----------



## Goober

I would take half the day off from work myself, you won't get paid, but its a worthwhile investment. Besides if the physical does run late, you'll be late returning for work and that doesn't look good. If you had half the day off, you wouldn't have to worry about that.


----------



## Lebanese Canadian

What kind of questions will they ask you before you take your medical test,and what kind of questions will they ask us to answer in the forms they give us to fill out. Are there any questions so specific and do they ask us about the name and address of our doctors......?


----------



## yot

Try to seach before u ask.

Thanks

http://army.ca/forums/threads/13191.0 this may help u


----------



## nULL

It's not like there is a LIST, and if you've got something NOT on the list, you're AOK. You'll be given a once-over and you will be ASKED if you have any medical conditions at that time. Then it's a list of "do you have a problem with xxx part of the body?"


----------



## Bobby147

One more question for the people who have passed Physical Test.

Did you eat anything (light breakfast), before you went to Physical Test, or went there empty stomach as you have to do Sit-ups too.....


----------



## nbk

Yeah eat a light breakfast. We did the test around 0930 and I ate some cream of wheat at around 0700 when I woke up. Just dont eat a whole lot and you should be okay.


----------



## Goober

It would be optimal to eat a full meal about 1 and 1/2 hours before your PT, then a light snack (power bar would be fine) 15-20mins before. That way you'll have a full supply of energy.


----------



## Gonz0

I have a small dellima conscerning the drug test. I am expesed to second hand marijuana smoke once in a while due to my dumb @$$ roomate having no respect for what i am trying to do. Im just wondering if i should bother enroling or if i should go get a drug test done at a doctors office first?  Any advise is appreciated thank you


----------



## phalen

http://www.ebackgroundsearch.com/drugsofabuse.htm

im pretty sure 2nd hand smoke won't show up at all tho.
but at the least try and stay away from him for a week or 2 and shouldnt be  a problem.


----------



## rdschultz

If you're willing to get a drug test done at a doctors office, then try that.  It certainly can't hurt, but I imagine you'd have to pay for it out of your own pocket.

If you do go down and test positive though, don't try to pin it on your roomate.  If your roomate is causing you problems, its your responsibility to either sort it out with him, or find a new roomate (even if that means moving).  You're responsible for what you're exposed to, and I can't imagine most recruiters would think too fondly of you trying to blame it on him.


----------



## winchable

"Second hand smoke" refers to high dose of ambient marijuana and/or crack cocaine smoke which, if passively inhaled may cause, in an individual, conversion of urine or hair test results from negative to positive. To date, most studies indicate that the amount of second hand smoke that needs to be inhaled is so great that it makes it highly unlikely that this could be accepted as a valid alternative explanation for a positive urine or hair test result


----------



## Bert

Che, that is the most amazing paragrah I've read all day.      ;D


----------



## winchable

haha, it's from a previous post on this site.
I suppose I should have prefaced it with that; All thanks for that go to Muskrat and a quick site search.

Regardless I'd say it answers the universal "Drug Test Question" Number 2 quite well.
NUmber one being "If I smoke weed can I get into the forces?"
Number two being "If I am exposed to second hand weed smoke am I allowed in the forces?"


----------



## rdschultz

I wonder how many of the second-handers actually are first-handers.  We can thank Ross Rebagliati for introducing a terrible excuse to the kids of our nation.


----------



## Gonz0

Thank you Che for the input i had no idea that that much exposure was needed to go positive on the test.   Now after all the comments i feel like i should of asked the question in a different way.  I can understand how this would look bad but i would find it offensive if i was to be accused of smoking drugs.  I strive hard every day to be in tip top shape and to be a clean contributing member of society so please keep the "second hand eh" comments for someone else.  The question was only because i didn't want to look like a fool if things went the wrong way, i just want to pass with flying colors so if that is a crime than so be it.


----------



## winchable

No worries, I wasn't implying anything, just giving you a straight answer.
We tend to have a few peoples stroll through and ask us that question, after a while we start to wonder, so if anyone seems like they're implying anything it's nothing to worry about it's just the natural cynicism and paranoia that one picks up after spending oh so many hours staring at this bloody screen 

I don't know how perfect or accurate an answer that is, but it's a start.

Cheers and good luck with the appy.


----------



## Gonz0

Thank you Che i do appreciate your input


----------



## RedDead666

hey I'm Shawn Ive been thinking about joining the regular forces since i was a kid I'm 19 years old i really really want to joined for April-These are the question i really need to be answered.....
-When should i applied to be in for around next April
-I want to joined the infantry i got a lot lot of drive for it but dint know what I'm getting my self into
-how long does it take for to get an answer from them(I'm patient)
-i used to smoked weed time to time and i did another substance(blow)a few times(4) i didn't do any of it for about 2 month now can i still get in the army i mean pass the medic in April-would like an advice from a medic on this if possible thanks
-for the longest times i wanted to go overseas like Bosnia etc..... will it take extremely long after i am recruited to be send away!
Thanks For advice :threat: :skull: :sniper:


----------



## McG

Check here:
 Recruiting FAQ

and specifically here:
Recruiting FAQ: Miscellaneous (PRes)


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Best of luck Red!


----------



## MedCorps

-When should i applied to be in for around next April

Soonest.  Spin down to the Recruiting Centre. 

-I want to joined the infantry i got a lot lot of drive for it but dint know what I'm getting my self into

Ask at the Recruiting Centre.  If you have specific questions about the life of an Infantryman then I am sure if you ask here someone who is currently serving as one will be able to shed light on your question. 

-how long does it take for to get an answer from them(I'm patient)

Varries.  Ask the Recruiting Centre 

-i used to smoked weed time to time and i did another substance(blow)a few times(4) i didn't do any of it for about 2 month now can i still get in the army i mean pass the medic in April-would like an advice from a medic on this if possible thanks

Be honest withthe Recruiting NCO when they ask about drug use.  This is your best bet. 

-for the longest times i wanted to go overseas like Bosnia etc..... will it take extremely long after i am recruited to be send away!

-  Depends.  You will need to be finished all of your basic and basic trades training.  Then it is dependant on when your unit is selected to go, and if you are selected to go with your unit.  Bosnia is almost a thing of the past for the CF as it is ramping down for us.  Look for other theatres to come soon. 

Cheers, 

MC


----------



## soon to be infantry

1-2 years from last use. I have a feeling your gonna have a bit of a wait man. They say not to apply until you have been clean for at least 6 months.


----------



## RedDead666

Thanks a lot mate :skull:
Aloha


----------



## Maverick

when i did my drug sheet, they never said anything about being clean for any amount of time, "they said be honest - its ur best bet", like i smoked weed for my like first time 2 months before the test, i know weed aint like a badass thing or anything, am i gonna be waiting too?
I put it on there anyways to be honest, even though it was one time.... if i have to wait long for just that ima gonna be pisssssssssed.


----------



## trebor8301

okay guys here's a question  i've read the fourms on drugs and i know for pot they will let it go,
well i was young and i was into allot of lsd and mushrooms and chemicals, i'm now 21 and i havent touched chemicals since i was 17-18 , and i quit pot last year!

i know that the army knows when were young we make mistakes but i curious about if  chemical the  part will get me denied into the force.  I know the army dosent want druggies in the force but when i talked to the recruiter he told right away dont worry about it! just stay off it.

if any one has any experence in this subject PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!


----------



## Scratch_043

just a correction, they do not 'let it go' for marijuana. A drug is a drug.


----------



## Inch

What chemicals are you talking about? If it's something like PCP, forget a miltary career, they won't touch you.


----------



## Scott

Inch, 

I was under the impression that if you had done LSD, they wouldn't touch you either. This is a few years back though....


----------



## Armymedic

The CF has a very strict No Drugs policy. This include use of all normal "hard" drugs, marijuana, and abuse of Rx drugs as well.

This is an except of Can Forces Admin Orders (CFAO) 19-21 which deals with drug abuse....

_POLICY

5.       Because of the implications on operational readiness, safety of both
members and the public, security, discipline, reliability, cohesion and
morale, it is CF policy that any unauthorized use or other illegal
involvement with drugs by CF members will not be tolerated. The Canadian
Forces Drug Control Program has been established under QR&O, Chapter 20
as a comprehensive instrument to combat unauthorized use and other illegal
involvement with drugs. The essential elements of the program are
education, detection, treatment and rehabilitation.

PROHIBITION

6.       Within the framework of the Canadian Forces Drug Control Program, the
use of any drug by CF members is prohibited, subject to three specific
exceptions.   QR&O 20.04 states:

"No officer or non-commissioned member shall use any drug unless:

       (a)   the member is authorized to use the drug by a qualified medical
               or dental practitioner for the purposes of medical treatment or
               dental care;

       (b)   the drug is contained in a non-prescription medication used by
               the member in accordance with the instructions accompanying the
               medication; or

       (c)   the member is required to use the drug in the course of military
               duties."

The word "use" is defined in   QR&O 20.01 for the purposes of the
Canadian Forces Drug Control Program. It means, in respect of a drug, "any
act of injecting, swallowing, inhaling, smoking, ingesting or otherwise
absorbing into the human body."

7.       The exceptions to   QR&O 20.04 do not constitute authority for
military authorities to order or permit a member to use a drug where that
use, or possession of the drug, is prohibited by another law.

OTHER CANADIAN LAW OF GENERAL APPLICATION

8.       Both the Narcotic Control Act and the Food and Drugs Act, which are
federal laws that apply to civilians and CF members alike, define narcotics
and certain other drugs and prohibit a large number of activities in
relation to those substances. Contravention of any of these prohibitions is
an offence punishable by imprisonment and other punishments.

9.       Under the Narcotic Control Act, it is an offence to possess, possess
for the purpose of trafficking, export from or import into Canada, traffic
in or cultivate a narcotic. In addition, it is an offence to traffic in a
substance held out or represented to be a narcotic. Recent amendments to
the Act also make it an offence to possess or launder proceeds or property
obtained as a result of trafficking, exporting, importing or cultivating a
narcotic.

10.      Under the Food and Drugs Act, it is an offence to possess for the
purpose of trafficking, to export from or import into Canada or traffic in
a restricted or controlled drug. It is an offence to traffic in a substance
held out or represented to be a restricted or controlled drug and to
possess a restricted drug. It is also an offence to sell a drug described
in Schedule F of the Act. Recent amendments to the Act also make it an
offence to possess or launder proceeds or property obtained as a result of
trafficking in a restricted or controlled drug._


For any Mary Jane users, even if it does become decrimalized, its use is still prohibited under this CFAO and mentioned QR&O for CF members.

Generally, there is an "amnesty" for prior use as long as you understand future use may cost you your military career.


----------



## Born2Fly

Well, subject to what my colleague Armymedic above me said, I would just apply. Be honest, tell them everything that happened, and let the CF make the decision about your file.

The worst they can say is, "No."


----------



## Harrier101

How about Heroin, or crack..will they take you if you have done those drugs? How about booze? What if you Drink a ton a booze on a daily basis? 

What kinda topic is this. It should be self explanatory that if you eat a hoarse tranquilizer, for a period of time, your brain starts to dissolve. If your brain dissolves, it ain't coming back.

Hence, the military does not want you running around the world, with a weapon shooting at people, or fixing an airplane that delivers aid, or giving first-aid to wounded colleague...get with it. If you have done LSD, ACID, Shrooms, PCP, Angel dust, Heroin, Crack....and you tell your recruiter that you have abused them, *THEY WILL NOT HIRE YOU*. If they do, I have no comment on that.


----------



## Inch

scott1nsh said:
			
		

> Inch,
> 
> I was under the impression that if you had done LSD, they wouldn't touch you either. This is a few years back though....



Yes true, any of that stuff and your file would have a date with the shredder.   
The choice to do drugs in Highschool can lead to dreams being crushed, but hey, adults don't know jack about anything right?   :

Cheers


----------



## skura

The only adults that know nothing we're once the kids who did that s***...


----------



## Scott

It has never affected me but the conversation has piqued my curiosity. I'm going to do some searching and see if I can find a policy.

Cheers


----------



## CDNBlackhawk

<MODERATOR EDIT: Not only is this bad advice, it is advocating an illegal action>

But thats a risk and question you need to ask yourself.

My one question to you is: what possessed you to do some of this hard Drugs. I realise everyone makes mistakes, but as some point you must have realised that it was going to affect your future.

Also think of it this way, would you want someone defending your country and carrying assult rifles if they were all jacked up on crank?


----------



## casing

This is *extremely* poor advice.   I don't think anyone here wants to serve with a liar.   Nor would they want to serve with someone that can have a wonderful flashback anytime, anywhere.   Not only that, but lying during your application process *will* get you tossed.

There is good reason to not allow someone into the CF if they have used chemicals such as LSD.   Recurrence at any point further along in your life is a real possibility.   When it happens it could cost a great deal of good people their lives.


----------



## Scott

I believe that providing false information on your application or lying during your interview can get you charged AND tossed. Good for it too, I agree with Casing, I do not think anyone wants to serve with a liar, especially in a job where trust issues come to the forefront all the time.

Just thoughts

Cheers


----------



## Infanteer

Offering advice like that will get you banned here, Blackhawk.   We don't need kids lying on their application and saying they read it at Army.ca.

Don't do anything like that again.  Consider yourself warned.


----------



## Scott

I call for an edit


----------



## Armymedic

Harrier101 said:
			
		

> How about Heroin, or crack..will they take you if you have done those drugs? How about booze? What if you Drink a ton a booze on a daily basis?
> 
> What kinda topic is this. It should be self explanatory that if you eat a hoarse tranquilizer, for a period of time, your brain starts to dissolve. If your brain dissolves, it ain't coming back.
> 
> Hence, the military does not want you running around the world, with a weapon shooting at people, or fixing an airplane that delivers aid, or giving first-aid to wounded colleague...get with it. If you have done LSD, ACID, Shrooms, PCP, Angel dust, Heroin, Crack....and you tell your recruiter that you have abused them, *THEY WILL NOT HIRE YOU*. If they do, I have no comment on that.



OK Harrier101 let me lay this down for you....

1. Are you a recruiter? No? Then don't make those judgements....
2. While some say that prior behavior is an indicator of future behavior the military has policy (hence my post above) to handle situations of drug, Alcohol etc abuse,
3. People, generally, when told there is a strict anti drug policy in the CF will stay away from it because they don't want to lose their hard earned job and its $$$ and, most importantly,
4. Some of the best soldiers I know, prior to thier Basic Tng smoked up, snorted and ate some weird stuff I never even heard of....

My experience was on my first day of Basic tng (Cornwallis 16 + yrs ago) we were given 15 min to go thru our gear and deposit anything that may be contraband into a large garbage can on the floor. If any was found in our pers belongings after, we would be hung....

After one class we were formed up and marched back to our barracks where we were confronted by the Course WO holding a open wad of brownish cake material wrapped in tin foil....All he said was"Whoever this belong to, good you got rid of it now. You may be hurting in about a week without it....my door is open." Never heard another word about it.

Now CDNblackhawk...you've already been jacked for the lying comment so I won't touch that.



			
				*CDN*Blackhawk said:
			
		

> My one question to you is: what possessed you to do some of this hard Drugs. I realise everyone makes mistakes, but as some point you must have realised that it was going to affect your future.
> 
> Also think of it this way, would you want someone defending your country and carrying assult rifles if they were all jacked up on crank?



As a leader, I can assure you that nobody, I SAY AGAIN, NOBODYget close to weapons while under the condition you mentioned above. First, can an addict make it thru Basic and qualification training? not likely. Do you think guys can repeatedly use drugs, or repeatedly misuse alcohol without his supervisor picking up on it....We do notice things, and if we don't I am sure the police report received by the RSM will definitely send up the red light.


----------



## tree hugger

Harrier101 said:
			
		

> Hence, the military does not want you running around the world, with a weapon shooting at people, or fixing an airplane that delivers aid, or giving first-aid to wounded colleague...get with it. If you have done LSD, ACID, Shrooms, PCP, Angel dust, Heroin, Crack....and you tell your recruiter that you have abused them, *THEY WILL NOT HIRE YOU*. If they do, I have no comment on that.



Harrier101:  Really, if you don't know what you're talking about don't say anything.  For some of the drugs you mentioned, you only need to be clean for three years prior to applying for the military. 
When I saw your post, I checked out your profile and found it empty...surprise!


----------



## GrahamD

Im going to post a link to a resource I frequently use to end arguments about the effects of drugs, both the real negative attributes, and the popular myths.
It is by no means the end word on the subject, but it is very thourough, including detailed information about drugs ranging from the chemical composition, to the clinical description of effects and side effects, and even personal testimonials from users themselves.  Most (I think pretty much all) of the popular drugs are listed, and some that you may never have even heard of.  There is more information available in certain drug catagories than others, but this is because some of the drugs listed are still relatively new and it seems that the site operator is interested in presenting fact and not speculation.
  Although there is some pro "natural" drug sentiment expressed throughout the site, and also some anti "chemical" drug sentiment, I do feel that throughout the pages of this website, there is the underlying message about education and fact.

Of particular interest to many people on this site may be the myth about hallucinogenics and flashbacks.  Flashbacks are extremely uncommon, even in long term chronic users of hallucinogenic drugs.  And of the few who suffer from flashbacks, most of those suffer them only within 3 months or less of last taking the drug.
If you're talking about a kid who wants to join the army who may have tried acid a few times but has been clean for 2 years, then this extreme paranoia about "druggies" marching over the world with assault rifles in their hand potentially about to suffer a mind shattering flashback, is borderline hysteria in my opinion. Hallucinogenics are known to cause depression and anxiety in many users even after only a few doses, and anxiety attacks can commonly be misconstrued as a "flashback".  Changes in blood pressure, visual disturbances, physical reactions including nausea, vomiting, weakness in extremities, uncontrollable shaking, and even panic involving the "fight or flight" reaction, can all be brought on by a severe enough anxiety attack.
None of which is desireable in a combat situation, but the reality is that pretty much anyone can have the same anxiety in a dire enough circumstance.  I would suggest an infrequent former user is only extremely marginally more at risk for such an attack than someone who has never done drugs, especially if there is no history of anxiety prior to enlistment.

I'm not advocating drug use at all, least of all hallucinogenics, but I think that the talk about having files shredded because of former drug use is essentially the same as suggesting that you lie to the interviewer about your past.  If you're not cool with someone who has abused drugs getting into the military, then you should just let the recruiting proccess weed those people out.
This talk about "junkies" watching your back overseas is just a waste of breath.  I know of people who never did drugs until AFTER they joined up.  It's going to happen, you're going to have to deal with some people who may be on drugs, or may have done them in the past.  The only thing you can do about it is to educate yourself on the subject and deal with the problems it causes as they arise.

Anyway, here's the link, and as I said it's by no means the last word on drugs, but I have found that all of the information I've reviewed can be verified from other sources.
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml


----------



## CDNBlackhawk

Obviously you missed my point and only read the one line on that whole post, i was not advocating lyeing in anyway, i was trying to  make him see both sides of the equation, obviously the way i did it was poorly thought out though. Again, i used poor choice of words.


----------



## Scott

Back on thread, if you are worried about something you may have done in the past, and this goes for drugs, crime, etc, talk it over with the recruiters. 

Cheers


----------



## Budgie

So I have my medical tomorrow... I'm a little nervous mainly because I hate doctors but could someone please tell me a basic rundown of what's going to  happen? I'd sure appreciate it. 
Thanks in advance  ;D


----------



## casing

Not likely that you'll actually see a Doctor, so don't sweat it.

      1. Arrive
      2. Fill out a questionnaire (medical history stuff)
      3. Pee in a cup
      4. Have your weight taken
      5. Have your blood pressure taken
      6. Do a vision test (for acuity and colour)
      7. Do a hearing test (press the button when you hear a beep)
      8. See a senior medic
      9. Hop up on a table after partly stripping down
   10. Be physically inspected (minimal touching (ie: feel near your ribs, ask you to cough), 
            visual (ie: "what's that scar from?") and joint movements)
   11. Stand up, bend over and touch your toes
   12. Squat
   13. Walk and press up against a wall
   14. Go over the answers to your questionnaire
   15. Leave

Nothing to it.

_Edit:_ Modified the above list to add two things I forgot (blood pressure, and feeling ribs do a cough).   Thanks for the correction, Inch.


----------



## Budgie

Thank you so much!  I feel alot better knowing what I'm walking into


----------



## Inch

They checked for hernias too when I did mine.  That's where they hold their hand against your abs and ask you to cough to check if your intestines try to pop out through a hole in your abdominal wall. Could be just an aircrew thing though.

Cheers


----------



## trebor8301

Well thank you guys for your answer's  i do apperciate it . Frist for everyone to  know i aint gonna LIE,i'm an honnest hard working person trying to take charge of my future. I strongly disagree with dicrimilisation and drug use , i hope our socitey will continue this fight and not give in , cause i certanily regret anything that i did. However i can;t return to the pass and change anything , so i must go foward .I hope by the time my son reaches his teen years there wont be any drugs and he'll be smarter than his old man.

And for those who think i'm i gonna have a flashback and go pycho on my fellow team members from a flashback i think you guy are completely OVER REACTING . i have been on hard drugs in a stressfull enviorment (fights,ppl screwing me over, and many more situations) with a weapon and i never shot anyone or even pulled it out! . I have always been a well displined person, And what about ALCHOOL how ppl kill each other or get into fight or just simply in trouble cause of it. I Know many alcohlics and Druggies and not trying to defend the druggies but they are alot more in control . 

Why did i touch the stuff , well lets make this fast my mother was a high member in organized crime so i have always  been exposed to drugs ,weapons and death so it only became natural to me. it wasn;t till i got older and i decided that there was more to life than what i knew so i stoped all the had shit eventually the pot and even ciggs, went to school and gratuated with 80's got the highest history exam mark in my schools history.

KIds on drugs need help they dont know how to stop , and they have to see thats there more to life than just getting high. and they must want to change.
YOU CANT HELP SOMEBODY UNLESS THIER WILLING TO HELP THEMSELFES!!

thanks for your repplies every one ! 

for those


----------



## Harrier101

> Really, if you don't know what you're talking about don't say anything.  For some of the drugs you mentioned, you only need to be clean for three years prior to applying for the military.
> When I saw your post, I checked out your profile and found it empty...surprise



Sorry, you are all right.

1)I do NOT know what I am talking about
2)I am NOT a recruiter. 
3)After not doing those kinds of drugs for a period of 3 years, the Military WILL accept you.

Wrong.

Firstly, My profile is just that. MINE. Not yours, and I chose not to share it with you. Just as I have chosen not to do those kinds of narcotics.

1)Dabble in a little pot in high school, fine, to be doing it as an adult habitually, is wrong. And the Canadian Forces should not hire you. It is a poor choice, and reflects on you character. At least it does with my employer. So I do have an idea about what I am talking about.

 2)I am in a position of hiring and firing with my present employer, so yes, I have a fair idea of recruiting practices and Human Resources management. And the question of narcotics does come up in the Interview, so I have a fair Idea of what an employer is looking for in a new employee. Also, I am a taxpayer, as are all of you, and I do pay a portion of my federal tax to the armed forces of this country, and as a voter, and taxpayer, I would not want an addict, past or present to be a representative in my country's armed forces.

3)Maybe the wording of that post should have been something like...."If I was a recruiter, which I am not, I would not hire someone who has made the decision to use a chemical, to alter ones state of mind. Once, was an experiment.....twice.... you liked it the first time. And the possibility exists for you to be tempted to do it again, maybe the night before going on exercise, or changing out one of the the fuel pumps on an Allison turboprop, or pulling guard duty at the main gate to the safe confines of a secure military base." Will you take the risk of working beside a past drug addict. I would think it to be a little unsafe, especially when I have to rely on this person for my safety. No thanks.

And I am still shaking my head that some of you, honestly believe that it's okay to have abused hard drugs, chemicals, and apply to the military. It's okay to have abused hard drugs that can result in a sort of flashback, years down the road. By the way, simple cold medicine, or whatever those US Air National Guard guys were on while flying around in F-16's in Afghanistan...."Ooooooo, look at the pretty lights down there. They must be shooting at us"......and look at that tragic result. The abuse of hard chemical's on a regular basis, past and present, that alter your capacity will not get you hired into the Canadian Armed Forces. Fact.


----------



## badapple

Harrier101 said:
			
		

> And I am still shaking my head that some of you, honestly believe that it's okay to have abused hard drugs, chemicals, and apply to the military. It's okay to have abused hard drugs that can result in a sort of flashback, years down the road. By the way, simple cold medicine, or whatever those US Air National Guard guys were on while flying around in F-16's in Afghanistan...."Ooooooo, look at the pretty lights down there. They must be shooting at us"......and look at that tragic result. The abuse of hard chemical's on a regular basis, past and present, that alter your capacity will not get you hired into the Canadian Armed Forces. Fact.



That is a very inaccurate view of what really happened.  Mistakes happen, if those were canadian pilots you would be singing a different tune.  Am i an american lover, no, but i am a friend of CPL Brett Perry and knew him when we were kids, who was one of the wounded in the attack, so this misinformed comment of yours strikes a bad chord with me  

CLearly another example of you speaking on an issue you know nothing or very little about.


On a seperate note, i have smoked pot in the past and overcame a huge gambling addiction, when discussing this with interviewer, he made several comments about former users/abusers having way STRONGER character for the hurdles that they have overcome


----------



## badapple

Harrier101 said:
			
		

> Once, was an experiment.....twice.... you liked it the first time. And the possibility exists for you to be tempted to do it again,



this is not really fair either, that just because someone did something twice means they liked it the first time, ever have sex with someone a second time in which the first encounter was rather unexciting???  Did liking it the first time factor in your decision or did you want to improve on the first experience??  One thing you can never KNOW about a person, only believe what they tell you, is their motivations for thier actions.  Even the courts have ruled that crimes such as murder and manslaughter may have pre-existing factors which factored into thier decision making at the moment.  If you have "no means no" mentality when picking your "recruits" for what ever company you work for, you may be missing out on some very developed people with life experience, while picking people who are to afraid to think outside the box.  But then again, people pick similar people to themselves, which is evident here.

Sorry if im sounding harsh, just doesn't seem that you're considering a few factors.


----------



## rdschultz

People with no drug using experience aren't necessarily "afraid to think outside the box".  They aren't the only ones capable of having life experience.  Those classifications are no different than someone else saying "anybody with a history of drug use is going to get trippy on the battlefield".  

On the other hand, I don't think someone who smoked pot a few times in high school should be excluded from selection because of that fact alone.  It should be a consideration at some level (which gets into the risky logical grounds of "if you were willing to break the law before, does that make you more willing now?"), but there are many more important factors that should be considered first.


----------



## Jarnhamar

This seems to be a pretty chaotic point when joining the army. I've spoken with someone who addmitted to using pot a year before applying and they let him in. I've also spoken with a girl who was apparently not allowed in the forces because she admitted to using pot 2 and a half years prior, they told her to wait 6 months.
This is a question you won't be able to get a straight answer from on this site. You'll need to go to the recruiting center and ask them. The answer you get might even change from center to center.

My opinion since you guys were rude enough not to ask 
people experiment, no big deal. I drink though i've never touched druhgs in my life. Someone doesn't need to try drugs to experience life, thats retarded. You gotta own up to what you do. Don't say oh i only tried drugs because of this or that or i was just trying it out. You tried drugs, period. Excuses only fool one person.

Unfortinuatly some people will be held accountable for the indisressions they made when they were younger.
If you did crazy hard core drugs, liked to set things on fire or tried to kill your babysitter with a pen because the dog told you to, theres probably a chance people aren't gonna look at you and say "hey whats the big deal, we were all kids once".

i was a pretty good kid. is it fair someone who was a complete criminal drug head demon as a teenager not be held a little accountable for their actions? I don't think so.  I'm not saying anyone who tried drugs is bad. people make mistakes. However, sometimes saying sorry doesn't fix it.


----------



## mike62

A decision to do drugs can effect you for the rest of your life.....and career.......I  am no angel....but drug free........I have seen career's ruined over it, and lives lost......it is not worth it.........


----------



## badapple

im not claiming to have it all figured out but another aspect is whether morality is the issue or criminal activity because i seriously doubt it's an issue of safety in all but extreme cases.  As previously mentioned, "stories" about "flashbacks" are way overstated.  If its an issue of the potential candate doing a crime, then what happens when cannabis is legalized???  If its an issue of morality, then what about people who are in the service but do some VERY immoral things, yet marginally legal??

Ive had this arguement with people who say its about choices, and that people who make bad choices are more likely to do them again.  ok, so why then the credit check?? some will say that poor credit represents people who make poor choices.  If thats the motivating factor in doing credit checks then why would they let you in as soon as you have resolved them?  The point, which seems obvious to me, is that they, (the recruiters) are looking for people without baggage, yes drugs are baggage, yes creditors hounding you are baggage, but a potential recruit who did acid(an apparent disqualifying hallucinagenic) once when he was a kid, and smoked pot in high school, is not a kid with baggage, he is a kid who has had some hurdles in life and learned, or at a minimum, overcame from them.  A person who has overcome issues in their life, and who can handle some extreme situations is someone i would go into combat with, ANYDAY.

lastly

IMHO, People who've had thier mind "blown" will handle the next mind blowing event better, ie, if you've ever seen someone OD on something and have had to deal with it, may react better when buddy has his guts spilling out in the field.  In other words, if you become used to extreme situations, you'll be more calm and cool in future extreme situations.

rambled, i know

peace


----------



## badapple

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> The answer you get might even change from center to center.



obviously this is wrong too, people should have the same requirements, and standards regardless of where they go, but ofcourse with the human element in the selection process, and the ussual percect of fuckups, centers often let people in who shouldn't be, and vice versa


----------



## Jarnhamar

> A person who has overcome issues in their life, and who can handle some extreme situations is someone i would go into combat with, ANYDAY.



Are you in the military Badapple?



> lastly
> 
> IMHO, People who've had thier mind "blown" will handle the next mind blowing event better, ie, if you've ever seen someone OD on something and have had to deal with it, may react better when buddy has his guts spilling out in the field.  In other words, if you become used to extreme situations, you'll be more calm and cool in future extreme situations.



Your going out on a limb with this one dude. On a very very basic level your argument might have some merit but theres way too many other factors for it to hold water.
Should we let murderers in the army because they have practice killing people?  Maybe if we let someone who's tried drugs in the army, when they get offered drugs somewhere they will jump at the chance to smoke up and get high.

Whatever arguments we come up with here, right or wrong, it doesn't matter.  For whatever their reasons, the Canadian Forces decides what is acceptable and what is isn't.


----------



## Harrier101

> That is a very inaccurate view of what really happened.  Mistakes happen, if those were Canadian pilots you would be singing a different tune



Sorry, I do not have 8 hours to write out every point here on this site regarding the accidental bombing by 2 Air National Guard Members of CF troops in Afghanistan. 

A factor in the bombing was the fact.....Fact....that they were taking "go pills" -- amphetamines used to help stay awake on long missions. Was it the cause of the incident...NO. But it was deemed to be a contributing factor that related directly to the pilot's ability to use judgement. Judgement that may, or may not have resulted in the deaths of 4 CF soldiers from PPCLI. 

And again, I see that some of you still think that the use of Hard narcotics in the past is "Okay". And that it will have no bearing on your present character. And that the military should hire you as it is "Life experience"????? Or it makes you having more of an ability to .....I'm really laughing at this one...."think outside the box". ???


----------



## catalyst

do they take blood pressure and blood samples?


----------



## Inch

They'll take blood pressure, the blood samples they'll do during basic if you're reg force. I never had any blood taken when I was in the reserves.

Cheers


----------



## Michael OLeary

badapple said:
			
		

> im not claiming to have it all figured out but another aspect is whether morality is the issue or criminal activity because i seriously doubt it's an issue of safety in all but extreme cases.   As previously mentioned, "stories" about "flashbacks" are way overstated.   If its an issue of the potential candate doing a crime, then what happens when cannabis is legalized???   If its an issue of morality, then what about people who are in the service but do some VERY immoral things, yet marginally legal??



Fundamentally, it is about neither legality nor morality. It is about the current regulations and restrictions on the enrolment of people who have prior drug use. Whether or not you agree with the regulations is meaningless. For some drugs, six months clean is the reguilation; for others, it's no elegibility for enrolment. And each case is examined against the existing regulations.

IMO, if you thought you were mature enough to decide to use drugs as a teenager despite society's prevalent warnings against them, them you can now be mature enough to live with the long term effects of those choices, including ineligibility for employment in certain fields.


----------



## Spr.Earl

To all,DRUGS are not tolerated in the Forces and if you use them we don't wont you!!


----------



## Fusaki

Harrier101:

Go do your BMQ. You'll meet some people who havn't been as "straight arrow" as yourself and you'll be forced to depend on them. Then we'll see if you can come back here and post with the same attitude you have now. Its only proper etiquette to understand a subject before you get all rightious about it, and you know fuck all about how past drug use affects current soldiers. For the record, I hate drugs with a passion. But I also know and work with past drug users. Your posts have been an attack on some very close friends of mine who have been honest with their recruiters and clean since their enrollment. These guys don't deserve the brush you've painted them with, and I find it sort of silly that a civillian like yourself would be so quick to decide who would make a good soldier.


----------



## SFontaine

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> Harrier101:
> 
> Go do your BMQ. You'll meet some people who havn't been as "straight arrow" as yourself and you'll be forced to depend on them. Then we'll see if you can come back here and post with the same attitude you have now. Its only proper etiquette to understand a subject before you get all rightious about it, and you know **** all about how past drug use affects current soldiers. For the record, I hate drugs with a passion. But I also know and work with past drug users. Your posts have been an attack on some very close friends of mine who have been honest with their recruiters and clean since their enrollment. These guys don't deserve the brush you've painted them with, and I find it sort of silly that a civillian like yourself would be so quick to decide who would make a good soldier.



My thoughts exactly


----------



## Budgie

So I think my medical went okay yesterday but they gave me a sheet to take to my doctor because I mentioned that I have asthma... 
Now, my asthma is really mild, I have the inhalers just in case but I rarely if ever use them... Does anyone think that this might still be an issue? This is the only thing that is concerning me somewhat... thanks in advance 
 :skull:


----------



## Butters

> 4. Have your weight taken


When I did my PT my instructor took my hieght and weight.




> 10. Stand up, bend over and touch your toes



Well I failed that, I have never been able to do that, ever!


----------



## BDTyre

Budgie, your asthma probably will be an issue.  When I was on my asthma medication, I rarely ever used my inhalers and was still told it was a problem.


----------



## Harrier101

A personal attack?

Sorry, I have no idea who you are, or who your friends are. So I fail to see where what I am saying here is a personal attack. Based on your reply, you don't really have a full understanding of what one would look like anyway. I could demonstrate what a personal attack is, but that's for another time and place. 

 But when  the time comes where I need to depend on another human being who has chosen, repeatadly to digest a checmical, becuse it's fun, or becuase it's life experiance, or because it makes them more likely to think outside the box,I will just have to do as most of you do. Just grin and bear it. I don't agree with it and In my personal opinion, it reflects on who you are as a person, and the poor choices you have made in your past. A decision that can be just as easily made in the present or the future.


----------



## Budgie

BDTyre, can you tell me what happened with that please? Because I'm really worried...


----------



## combat_medic

Budgie: They are trying to find out the severity of your asthma and your dependance on asthma medication. Your doctor will probably perform a few tests on you (if he/she has not done so already) and will tell the Medical Board the extent of your asthma. Depending on the results, you may be barred from the CF, you may be limited to certain trades, or you may have no medical limitations. If you want more information, check out this thread:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/13549.0.html

And do a search for "asthma" on the forums. This topic has been covered many times and all the information is already there.


----------



## badapple

those "go pills" you speak of were administered by the US Airforce, they were given to them by their leadership/medical officers who obviously made it "ok"

someone asked about my service, I completed basic (at the mega, i was reg force) but VR'd because my trade wasn't availiable to me as my vision is a V4 and i need to be a V3, and i decided that i didn't want to take a different trade.


----------



## jarko

Butters said:
			
		

> Well I failed that, I have never been able to do that, ever!



Did you fail the medical test because of that?? I can only touch my toes after running and thats only for like 2 seconds.


----------



## Budgie

okay, I read the thread, thank you for the link combat_medic.
so I'm going to see my doctor on monday because she wasn't in today and I saw the other one who works in the clinic and there were some discrepancies in my file and he refused to sign the sheet saying I was healthy. So I'll see my real doctor and maybe it'll go better. Also, this evil guy is sending me to a respiratory specialist and then maybe this will get cleared up. this upsets me though because I've been able to do my workouts without any problems so I don't see what the huge issue is. But hopefully this gets cleared up soon. 
Thanks for the help and keep your fingers crossed for me please!
if it's okay with you guys, I'll keep you posted on what happens.

thanks again.

Liz


----------



## jswift872

Ii had to take a sheet to my doctor to fill out because i broke my nose 3 times, and they needed proof that i could "breathe" proper lol also because of torn ligaments in my knee and ankle


----------



## Butters

> Did you fail the medical test because of that?? I can only touch my toes after running and thats only for like 2 seconds.



Havn't done my medical yet. Just completed my PT. I don't know what comes next, interview or medical? I was told to come back tomorrow with all my documents then they said somting about putting me on a competitive sheet and that's about it. 

I don't know if my height is a factor with not being able to touch my toes, I'm abuot 6'2". Oh well can't win em all.


----------



## Garbageman

Butters said:
			
		

> I don't know what comes next, interview or medical?



Interviews and medicals are often held on the same day one after another.


----------



## Budgie

really? I had my medical yesterday and they said I'll have the interview once the results from my medical come back from ontario, which is going to take forever cos they wont send it off because I have to get this sheet done from my doc about my asthma....


----------



## jarko

Yeah i am having my Medical and interview on the 25th (Toronto Recruiting center)


----------



## Harrier101

> These guys don't deserve the brush you've painted them with, and I find it sort of silly that a civilian like yourself would be so quick to decide who would make a good soldier



I Painted them? Er.....no. They painted themselves, I am merely pointing out that they should not be hired by the Military because they have made the poor choice of using narcotics. Infact, as has been mentioned many times on this thread, and in keeping with the author's original post, If you use drugs, the Military will not hire you.

Further to that, In my opinion, you should not be hired by the military if you have had a PAST history of drug abuse. Does not matter how long ago. It reflects on a poor decision making process on your part. A decision making process that is used to make important decisions on a daily basis as a member of the Armed Forces. Should these people be given a second chance. I dunno. Do you get a second chance in combat?


----------



## Fusaki

Have you ever failed a high school course? Maybe that would be a good reason not to hire you on the gounds you have bad work habits. Have you ever had relationship problems? Maybe you shouldn't be hired because you have shown you can't work with people. Do you watch too much TV? The army doesn't want couch potatoes. Do you really think that you havn't done anything the military might not agree with? The army doesn't want guys who can't admit they've made mistakes. Its all about maturity and the stupid things people do in high school are not always a reflection of who they are today.

Alot of guys join to put the past behind them. I know that for a fact. They come from rough neighbourhoods or screwed up families and they want to live in a more positive environment. Alot of people just want to have something they can be proud of, and to do that they realize the need to get out of the rut they were once in.


----------



## kastanis

To say that any person who has tried using illicit substances should not ever be able to be employed by the Candian Forces is rather ludicrous, as that would disqualify over 50% of the young people growing up today, many of which have the potential to become very useful and productive members of the CF.  Would such an opinion extend itself to argue that no one who has ever tried drugs should be able to be a physician, lawyer, engineer, or police officer?  I propose that we, as a country, would be highly lacking in skilled professionals were we to adopt such a policy.

I believe the person who orignally started this post, Trebor, was looking for experience from people who had had history of prior drug use who have completed or are completing the recruitment process.  I am one of the people who have such a history and am in the application process.  I have had my DEO interview, and the Lt(N) and I discussed my prior drug use, which was not excessive and did not include hallucinogens or such psychosis-inducing drugs as PCP, but nevertheless spanned a number of years.  I was HONEST with her, which is of utmost importance.  I made it clear that there is no current use of illicit substances, nor will there be any in the future provided that I am enrolled in the CF.  She understood that EVERYONE makes poor decisions, and just wanted to make the CF policy on substance abuse clear to me.  I concurred that a career in the CF and the continued abuse of substances are mutually exclusive.  End of story.  At the end of the interview, she told me that I was a competitive candidate for AERE and CELE, and slightly less so for PLT, owing to the fact that I have been employed as an engineer, but have never flown an airplane.  She also said that she would be submitting my file to the October DEO selection board.

I hope that helps those who were curious.

Eric


----------



## badapple

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> Have you ever failed a high school course? Maybe that would be a good reason not to hire you on the gounds you have bad work habits. Have you ever had relationship problems? Maybe you shouldn't be hired because you have shown you can't work with people. Do you watch too much TV? The army doesn't want couch potatoes. Do you really think that you havn't done anything the military might not agree with? The army doesn't want guys who can't admit they've made mistakes. Its all about maturity and the stupid things people do in high school are not always a reflection of who they are today.
> 
> Alot of guys join to put the past behind them. I know that for a fact. They come from rough neighbourhoods or screwed up families and they want to live in a more positive environment. Alot of people just want to have something they can be proud of, and to do that they realize the need to get out of the rut they were once in.



Very well put,

there are all kinds of poor decisions,

Many would say that bill clinton was a great president, and many still do according to his popularity, and he's made ALL kinds of decisions and lied about many of them, (" I did not have sexual relations with Ms. Lewinski" and "I did not inhale") but many would say he's the JFK of the current generation and that he did an outstanding job in his highly stressfull roll.

i know that was a bit off topic, but hey, had to throw in the comment.


----------



## trebor8301

Thank you Eric thats exactly what i was hoping for, i intend to be honest with the interviewer and hopefully a productive menber one day. As long as you dont intend to such anything it was okay for you right, cause i quit all the bad stuff about 3-4 years ago and the pot last year. i hate drugs now and wished i never wasted my  teen years but i was wondering as it said lots of kids now a day unforntuatly touch drugs . 

If any one else has a  similiar situation  please let me know how it went.!! Thanks to all!


----------



## Ryan_Bohm

When  it comes down to the selection boards were 2 applicants are the same with merit and has used drugs etc then I am sure they will pick clean one.


----------



## badapple

maybe so but this isn't what we're discussing

and very seldom would there be two people with exactly the same merits,,


----------



## Jarnhamar

On the other side of the fence, while the Canadian Forces DOES let people in who've previously  taken drugs people shouldn't use that as an excuse TO experiment with them or to continue doing them (smoking pot) up until a magic cut off day (say 6 months before your testing).


----------



## nbk

GrahamD said:
			
		

> Im going to post a link to a resource I frequently use to end arguments about the effects of drugs, both the real negative attributes, and the popular myths.
> 
> (...)
> 
> http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml



That is a very good link to a very unbiased source, which you can get a lot of useful information from.

Its really astounding to see how ignorant so many people are, in this day and age, towards certian currently illegal drugs. 

It reminds me of some sort of which hunt which would have taken place in the days of yore. Maybe they did kill a few witches who really were casting spells and whatnot, but the majority of the people killed were in fact not whiches at all. 

The DND policies may get a few people who for whatever reason wanted to join the forces, even with a drug addiction, which they knew would only screw up their job in the end, but the vast majority of people who get axed will be casual users who simply use drugs to enjoy and enhance their lives.

It is current DND policy however, and it must be followed no matter how unjust it is. One can only hope that the DND will evolve to a point where they get with the times and get some more progressive policies with respect to drugs.

To sum up: Drugs are not bad. People who use drugs are not bad. The very very small minority of *bad people* who do drugs are bad people. Non addictive drugs can be used to enhance the lives of people who choose to use these powerful substances with the respect that they deserve. Guns can be misued by bad people as well, should guns be outlawed in the CF?

*Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND.* They are your employer so they can choose what they will allow their employees to do. If your employer wants you to wear nothing but a pink thong you either do what they want or you loose your job. They do not have to employ you, and you can loose your job for whatever retarded reason they want to give.

Do drugs and enjoy life if you choose, but realize that this must end if you choose to be in the CF. If you don't want it like that get another job.


----------



## Jarnhamar

> To sum up: Drugs are not bad. People who use drugs are not bad. The very very small minority of bad people who do drugs are bad people. Non addictive drugs can be used to enhance the lives of people who choose to use these powerful substances with the respect that they deserve. Guns can be misued by bad people as well, should guns be outlawed in the CF?



Wow.   
I might get a caution for language here but are you fucking retarded?     thats the stupidest thing i ever heard. My brother is 20 years old and screwed for the rest of his life and will likely never ever get a decent job because of "harmless steroids".

It's not even worth trying to point out how stupid this statement is because if someone is dumb enough to believe it i don't think God himself could change their mind.   

Don't start with that shit reference to guns being bad.   Firearms are a tool that the Canadian Forces uses to perform their duties and protect it's members in carrying out those duties. It's such a stupid comparrison I still wonder if your joking. 
Do you want to put your life in the hands of a soldier (Police officer/Fireman/doctor) whos high on drugs?   Nooooo their not bad at all. Have fun and enjoy the finer parts of life. Non-addictive drugs are great. You can quit them anytime you want. 

As for your opinions about how backwards the CF policies are, if you ever consider joining the CF remember about all our stupid rules and policies and run away from the recruiting office as fast as you can. 
Fuck serving your country when you can spend every day getting high.

You make it sound like you can lead a happy fullfilling life with drugs OR you can join the CF and you know, never have fun again. Because drugs are fun.
Your RTFO


----------



## Scott

nbk said:
			
		

> *Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND.* They are your employer so they can choose what they will allow their employees to do. If your employer wants you to wear nothing but a pink thong you either do what they want or you loose your job. They do not have to employ you, and you can loose your job for whatever retarded reason they want to give.



I wasn't going to weigh in but I re-read the thread and some other posts of yours nbk and I just have to get this out:

You state that you are in the process of applying to the CF, just waiting for the call, eh? Well if you consider the policies that everyone must follow "abhorrant and senseless" then why would you join? You applied 043 (Combat Engineer) Do you think the CF should change those "abhorrant and senseless" policies and then turn you loose to smoke a bowl and go play with mines? I don't think you'd have too many followers. 

In another topic about drugs, you stated that you'd quit to join the CF because of the policies, I commend you for that, at least you'll tow the line unlike some who'd just hide it and try to get away with it. You also said that you'd really cut back on your use of drugs "over the last few years" My question then, and still is, how many f-ing years have you been doing drugs? It's curiosity, not a snipe.

Cheers


----------



## badapple

you just twisted everything he said, he wasn't advocating use while serving and foresure not use while on duty.

he post merely backs up my questions in previous post about; what happens when marijauna is legalized? the questions about morality, safety and so WILL HAVE to be answered at that point, because right now the regs foundation is that thier illegal, thus they are not to be used.   But society's attitude about marijuana is becoming more that it is acceptable to do recreationally.   I'll admit, i smoke pot.   But im responsible about it, i know(just like people who drink, like many in the NCO mess at this very moment) that you can do something recreationally on my spare time like, smoke pot, or consume alcohol, and be at work in the morning with a clear head.

I would argue that a pot smoker will have a clearer head than one who consumes alcohol, i know when i smoke pot, that the next day there is no hangover whatsoever, but after a night out drinking with the boys, i just want to stay in bed.

Also, i would prefer working with a person addicted to marijuana, over one addicted to alcohol anyday.

----english is my second language, i know there is some gramatical errors in my post


----------



## Armymedic

WTF? NBK, your just too much...



			
				nbk said:
			
		

> It is current DND policy however, and it must be followed no matter how unjust it is. One can only hope that the DND will evolve to a point where they get with the times and get some more progressive policies with respect to drugs.
> 
> *Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND.*



I am not sure whom you are referring to that has been condemned by the DND drug policy. Maybe you can enlighten me about these persons.

I do know of Ptes and Cpls who have been caught using drugs, and with the exception of the two reservists caught smoking up in Bosnia, where administratively handled, given the opportunity to undergo counselling and carry on with their military career. One of those caught a few yrs back is was just promoted to Sgt and was award a CO commendation for being the best MCpl in his unit...So where is this condemnation of which you speak....

Read this and be informend: http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/019-21_e.asp

Its not all bad, you are indeed correct that if you can't follow your employeer's rules and regs, you will be quickly fired/layed off/punted from your means of income....But I really do hope with that attitude toward the Queen's regulations and Administrative Orders, you choose not to become a mbr of my Canadian Forces.

Badapple:
First, the gov't is discussing DECRIMINALIZING pot, not legalizing it. 



			
				badapple said:
			
		

> Also, i would prefer working with a person addicted to marijuana, over one addicted to alcohol anyday.



I choose NOT to work with either... 

CFAO 19-31 Misuse of Alcohol:

_Misuse of alcohol shall be deemed to have occurred when a member's use
of alcohol:
        a.     interferes with the performance of duty including regular
               attendance at the place of duty;

        b.     creates an administrative burden by causing domestic or other
               problems;

        c.     interferes with satisfactory social or economic functioning;

        d.     interferes with health; or

        e.     otherwise reflects discredit upon the CF._

That being said...come into work high, come into work hung over, I can deal with you adminstratively.


----------



## Scott

Armymedic, you've beat me to the punch for most of my post!! *delete* 



			
				badapple said:
			
		

> he post merely backs up my questions in previous post about; what happens when marijuana is legalized? the questions about morality, safety and so WILL HAVE to be answered at that point, because right now the regs foundation is that their illegal, thus they are not to be used.   But society's attitude about marijuana is becoming more that it is acceptable to do recreationally.   I'll admit, i smoke pot.   But im I'msponsible about it, i know(just like people who drink, like many in the NCO mess at this very moment) that you can do something recreationally on my spare time like, smoke pot, or consume alcohol, and be at work in the morning with a clear head.
> 
> I would argue that a pot smoker will have a clearer head than one who consumes alcohol, i know when i smoke pot, that the next day there is no hangover whatsoever, but after a night out drinking with the boys, i just want to stay in bed.
> 
> Also, i would prefer working with a person addicted to marijuana, over one addicted to alcohol anyday.



It shouldn't matter if it is legalized. The CF has a policy against it, I don't think it is more because it is illegal, but because of drugs effects. Argue the reasons for it all damn day if you want, if they have a policy against it then that is it, there's not a thing anyone here can do about it right now. You want to change it? Go run for the Liberals, get into office, get the MND's post, then tell the troopies to spark up, good luck!

On a side note: I am curious to hear the input from some of the more senior members on this forum as to what they think will happen should pot be legalized. Do you see the policies changing? In what way? May it be treated the same as booze?


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

nbk said:
			
		

> Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND.




Got turned down did ya?


----------



## Ryan_Bohm

You said you were responsible about doing drugs, I beg to differ.  You are commiting a Criminal Code offence, I do not think thats a responsible act.  I am only going St, Jean Sept 28, but members of the CF represent our country. I dont want to be associated with someone who breaks the law nor commits a criminal offence. I dont want to trust someone with my life who is a drug user. "Weed" does effect your mind.  THC gets stored in your fatty tissue for example and you quite smoking....down the road this stuff gets released into your system. It also slows down your mental functioning. I could continue on with this because I am a police foundations grad and had many lectures on the topic of drugs.
Ryan.


----------



## Armymedic

nbk said:
			
		

> *Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND.*



*Gee nbk, maybe this SEAL commander, after all he's done, wanted to experience more of what life had to offer?
I wonder in this case in the US Navy just "condemning" this "good, decent and brave" sailor with their "very twisted and backwards policy"? *   

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20040822-9999-1m22seal.html

_The Navy has charged a SEAL officer with using cocaine and Ecstasy and distributing ketamine while in Thailand â â€œ one of eight commandos being investigated for alleged drug use. 

Lt. Scott C. Hobbs, who is based at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, is accused of using drugs last May while in Pattaya, Thailand, on a training exercise, according to Navy charges filed last month but just released. 

Additionally, Hobbs is accused of trying to impede a criminal investigation, of conduct unbecoming an officer and of violating a military order. 

The Navy tested 3,300 special-operations and support sailors worldwide in May. 

The tests were ordered after seven sailors â â€œ five SEALs and two special warfare combatant crewmen â â€œ tested positive for drugs while in Thailand. Six more sailors, including three SEALs, tested positive in other locations. 

Hobbs and others were in Thailand to participate in Cobra Gold, an annual multinational military exercise._ 

   Got any other uneducated spoutings?


----------



## badapple

scott1nsh said:
			
		

> It shouldn't matter if it is legalized. The CF has a policy against it, I don't think it is more because it is illegal, but because of drugs effects. Argue the reasons for it all damn day if you want, if they have a policy against it then that is it, there's not a thing anyone here can do about it right now. You want to change it? Go run for the Liberals, get into office, get the MND's post, then tell the troopies to spark up, good luck!
> 
> On a side note: I am curious to hear the input from some of the more senior members on this forum as to what they think will happen should pot be legalized. Do you see the policies changing? In what way? May it be treated the same as booze?



you're not listening, theres obviously a reason there is the policy in place, and im saying those "foundations" that were used to make that policy are changing, if its a matter of legality, thats changing, if its a matter of morals, those are changeing, and if its a matter of safety, then new studies, or recent studies, have shown that alcohol has a more negitive effect on humans.   SO WHAT IM SAYING IS.......tell me the foundations, or suspected foundations of that policy, because ALL AROUND marijuana is being socially accepted more and more, in some places even moreso than tobacco smoking.   My opinion is in roughly ten years, it will be handled the same as alcohol by the CF


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

badapple said:
			
		

> _you're not listening, theres obviously a reason there is the policy in place, and im saying those "foundations" that were used to make that policy are changing, if its a matter of legality, thats changing, if its a matter of morals, those are changeing, and if its a matter of safety, then new studies, or recent studies, have shown that alcohol has a more negitive effect on humans.  SO WHAT IM SAYING IS.......tell me the foundations, or suspected foundations of that policy, because ALL AROUND marijuana is being socially accepted more and more, in some places even moreso than tobacco smoking.  My opinion is in roughly ten years, it will be handled the same as alcohol by the CF
> _




I don't think its socially changing at all, instead those who wish to make it legal are just yelling louder than the "silent majority"....and the media picks up on it like the lapdogs they are.


----------



## muskrat89

More and more companies are adopting certified testing programs, and "Zero Tolerance" policies. Sounds to me like the policies are getting "less permissive", by your guys' defiinition (Cheech and Chong, not Bruce and Armymedic)

My Workers' Comp Company offers a discount in our premiums for having a certified drug and alcohol program.....


----------



## George Wallace

badapple said:
			
		

> My opinion is in roughly ten years, it will be handled the same as alcohol by the CF



Alcohol and Alcohol abuse are frowned upon in the CF these days.   Alcohol abuse can mean discharge from the Forces.

GW


----------



## Jarnhamar

> because ALL AROUND marijuana is being socially accepted more and more, in some places even moreso than tobacco smoking.  My opinion is in roughly ten years, it will be handled the same as alcohol by the CF



Well maybe we'll see you in 10 years in the CF


----------



## Slim

To NBK and his band of buddies, all of whom insist that Drugs Are O.K.

Why, oh why, would you and your friends come on to a forum dedicated to serving and retired members of the CF and insist that abusing drugs is not only O.K but a positive, life changing experience?

Sorry but I don't understand your motivation...

Are you trying to convince us all that filling your system with chemicals that someone made in their basement is alright and a cool thing to do? "Hey look at me my mind is permanently damaged but I'm sooo cool!"   NOT

There are websites dedicated to that subject. Perhaps you and yours would feel more at home posting on one of those instead of here...?

I don't think that this forum is liable to be very sympathetic to your view point. And I'm also concerned that some of the younger posters may actually be taken in by your "misguided posts"

By the way welcome to the Ninjasniper's club. Somehow it seems appropriate...

Slim

DRUGS ARE BAD! :skull:


----------



## atticus

badapple said:
			
		

> I'll admit, i smoke pot.   But im responsible about it, i know(just like people who drink, like many in the NCO mess at this very moment) that you can do something recreationally on my spare time like, smoke pot, or consume alcohol, and be at work in the morning with a clear head.
> 
> Also, i would prefer working with a person addicted to marijuana, over one addicted to alcohol anyday.



Are you in the CF? Because your talking like your a member to a mess somewhere. If so maybe you should really consider what is more important: your job, or pot because if you get caught smoking pot while in the reserves, regs, even cic you'll get the boot. I've spent alot of time in the JR mess at my old unit, and yes, there was drinking, and yes, some times a few people got out of hand but there was always consequencesto their actions. I remember when the liberals were pushing for decriminalizing/legalizing pot and the RSM sure gave us one long lecture about it. The just of it was: It doesn't matter what you think, right now it's against the law and if your caught you loose your job. Plain and simple. This isn't just the CF with this policy either, most oil companies have manditory drug tests every so often (my fathers is about every 6 months), the hospital where I'm currently employed has you sign a paper saying you agree to random drug tests, my sister had to pass a drug test to even get accepted into college and another when she got hired at as a nurse and guess what? With all of them if you test positive you get fired. I agree with Bruce, I don't think it's socially changing at all, it's just the people who are advocates for it are just getting louder while the majority sit and watch. 

Oh, and I'd prefere that buddy addicted to weed and buddy addicted to alcohol both be in rehab.


----------



## badapple

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> Well maybe we'll see you in 10 years in the CF



not unless my trade, NCI OP, becomes a V3 instead of a V4


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

badapple said:
			
		

> not unless my trade, NCI OP, becomes a V3 instead of a V4



Greeeeat thats all we need in the front row a stoned ARRO, ASPO or TS. No thanks!     :


----------



## George Wallace

What I don't get is the feeling that you have that doing drugs gives you life experience.  Doing drugs is an escape.  It is an escape from the reality of everyday life.  If you can't face reality, how can you truly experience life?

GW


----------



## Potential Recruit

Okay, so new to this board and everything, and while the whole drug debate is not really an issue for me (and not wanted to advocate illegal or immoral activity), I'm curious how the CF determines an applicant's prior drug habits?

I know there's a medical, which makes perfect sense . . . but what about some guy who did coke 10 ort 15 years ago?  Is it really just up to the applicant to be honest?  I mean, there's no polygraph or anything, is there?  I know there can be for certain security clearances for certain jobs . . . so what if a recruit lied to his recruiting officer and said no, never did a drug in my life, passed the medical, but then got caught out on a polygraph test years later while screening for a Top Secret clearance?  

Hypothetical, I know, but I'm just curious if the recruit's word is the only thing they have to go on, if he/she passes the medical?  I mean, if I had an old drug habit, I wouldn't very well go telling people about it . . .


----------



## Fusaki

> It doesn't matter what you think, right now it's against the law and if your caught you loose your job. Plain and simple.



I'd say that what you think matters quite a bit. If you think that doing drugs is alright, then thats not the type of personality I'd want to be serving with. I want to work with folks who see the meaning behind the laws - who not only avoid drugs because of the legal consequences, but also KNOW that using drugs has physical, emotional, and mental consequences as well.

I know that what I've just said takes on a different tone then my previous posts in this thread, so I think I'll clarify my situation. Back when I was in high school I got involved with all sorts of stuff that would be frowned on by the CF. I was honest with my recruiter, and it took quite awhile to get my application moving. But now when I look back at high school, I realize how stupid I was. I know how this crap fucks with your head, I've been there. But I also know that if you sort yourself out and decide where your priorities are, you can go on to be a productive member of the CF.

Man, I'm 20 years old. I'm not one of those ultra-conservative "old people" who waves his finger in your face and lectures you about stuff I don't understand. I used to think the exact same way, untill I was clean for a few months. I like to think I grew up a bit, but I'm still young enough to remember all the shit I used to tell myself.


----------



## nbk

Ghost: I didn't mean to say guns are bad, do not put words into my mouth. I like guns a lot. The chance to use them is one big reason I was always interested in the military. What I meant is that acting like drugs are the cause of peoples problems is like saying that guns are the cause of people getting shot. In both cases it is the PEOPLE who have the problem, not the means that they use to solve their problem. Not every gun user is a murderer and not every drug user is addicted.

Also I have no experience with steriods, so I cannot speak about them but I do know about some drugs, which I am speaking about.



			
				scott1nsh said:
			
		

> I wasn't going to weigh in but I re-read the thread and some other posts of yours nbk and I just have to get this out:
> 
> You state that you are in the process of applying to the CF, just waiting for the call, eh? Well if you consider the policies that everyone must follow "abhorrant and senseless" then why would you join? You applied 043 (Combat Engineer) Do you think the CF should change those "abhorrant and senseless" policies and then turn you loose to smoke a bowl and go play with mines? I don't think you'd have too many followers.



Yes I am just waiting for the call. I was honest 100% with the recruiter and he actually had a brain on his shoulders and listened to what I was saying instead of just hearing the words "positive experiences with drugs" and then throwing a hissy fit. I have absolutely no criminal record and he was so impressed with my professionalism and eloquency in speaking about myself he even told me I'd make a "fine soldier".

I think the big problem that you people have is you have zero education about drugs. You have seen too many after school specials and trust far too much in the media and the lies that they spread.

FACT: The majority of drugs are not physically addictive. To get addicted to these drugs you either need to have some sort of mental problem preventing you from having any self control, or have a really screwed up horrible life, living on the streets or whatever. In fact drugs like LSD often give such intense and profound experiences that one does not wish to repeat the experience for weeks or months after. In fact with LSD one's tolerance goes up so fast that if one took the drug more then one a week or so, the drug would have no effect. Flashbacks are bullocks. Seriously do not believe every scare tactic that the prohibitionist media tries to tell you about people going blind from staring at the sun or suddenly having drugs in their spinal fluid leak into their brain causing them to trip while they have not ingested anything for a long time. They are complete and utter bullshit with zero unbiased scientific evidence to back them up. Flashbacks can happen, but from what I am told its more when you use other drugs (I've never gotten one myself). For example if you dropped acid one week and then a month later you smoked a joint, you may have some of the feelings of the acid with the marijuana, even though none of the acid is in your system. Its more of a de ja vu type experience when the THC is acting on the same parts of your brain as the LSD was. The whole idea of people going insane or not being able to control what is happening, is pure over hyped scare tactics from the newsmedia trying to scare people.

Why is it that you guys are so quick to criticize the media when it demonizes the CF, yet you take it what it says as absolute gospel when it tries to demonize drugs? They lie to scare you people, so you tune back in every night to see what is up.



			
				scott1nsh said:
			
		

> In another topic about drugs, you stated that you'd quit to join the CF because of the policies, I commend you for that, at least you'll tow the line unlike some who'd just hide it and try to get away with it. You also said that you'd really cut back on your use of drugs "over the last few years" My question then, and still is, how many f-ing years have you been doing drugs? It's curiosity, not a snipe.
> 
> Cheers



*Tha quote was addressed to me, so the answer is about me, and if you don't want to hear about me, then skip it*

Again people need more education on the subject, and have to get over this silly thought that everyone who uses drugs is addicted and MUST use them or they will go crazy. Drugs are absolutely not my entire life. They were used as a very small thing to enhance my life, and I do not regret almost anything I've ever done. Sure mistakes have happened, but I've learned from them, and not repeated them. Giving up drugs to join the CF is no more difficult then giving up gourmet food. I think more about lack of privacy and freetime as being negative then lack of drugs. Its really not a big deal for me at all. When I decided to join the CF I weighed all the pros and cons and the pros outweighed the cons so I decided to go for it. 

When you ask me how many years I have been doing drugs you make it sound like I'm shooting heroin every day. The first time I tried weed was about in grade 6 or 7 like most kids that age. Always was at the top of my class, never failed a subject throughout all of elementary school or high school (except for one class in grade 10 that was due to a teacher's vendetta against me...NO the weed didn't make me paranoid, I'm serious she had it in for me and several others in the class). In high school I tried some other light drugs, and never anything addictive like crack or smack or opiates. I never even bothered with unsafe drusg like exstacy. I had the grades and the money to go to university, but I did not see any point in sitting around wasting my life hearing about people doing things, and not doing them myself. 

If drugs have taught me one thing (and in fact they have taught me much more) it is that life is measured by experiences and sitting aroudn wasting away on some U of T campus is not the way to enjoy this time when I am most healthy and most able. I wanted to join the CF to travel, learn and do all sorts of real life things in a real job. I want to experience everything that life here has to offer. Drugs have shown me so much that I am very thankful for discovering them when I did and using them in a correct, safe and educated manner. I have learned so many things I would have never learned any other way. So many new perspectives on life, death, fear, stress, everything. I can say that drugs have improved my life very much, with no long lasting down sides. I am the most healthy person I know, and because I never abused drugs, I have been able to utilize their benefits and not succum to their negative aspects.

Drugs are not for everyone, and lots of people who can't handle them, will get screwed over by them. My earlier gun analogy was quite apt in fact.. If you respect them, you can use them and benefit from them. If you do not respect them and use them carelessly, then they can injure or kill you. They are not for everyone of course, but knowing my personal experiences with them, I am not about to condemn them, no matter what is fashionable to fit in with all of you, who have never even tried them in the first place and haven't a clue about what you are speaking of. You get mad when people who are not in the CF come on here and try to tell you all about life in the CF and how to be a ninja sniper, so how do you think I feel when you guys speak to me about how evil drugs are without having any first hand experience with them? You just sound foolish.



			
				Armymedic said:
			
		

> Its not all bad, you are indeed correct that if you can't follow your employeer's rules and regs, you will be quickly fired/layed off/punted from your means of income....But I really do hope with that attitude toward the Queen's regulations and Administrative Orders, you choose not to become a mbr of my Canadian Forces.



Who on earth ever said you have to agree with something to abide by it? Do you agree 100% with every last policy that the DND has? You still follow them even if you don't agree with them, don't you? It doesn't matter what you believe in personally. It doesn't matter if something is unjust (as the DND drug policy is). If something will get you fired if you don't abide by it, then you abide by it. If the DND inacts a guideline that no one may eat steak, then you don't eat steak unless you want to get axed. Is it a big enough deal to risk getting canned over? Weigh the pros and cons and deal with any consequences that may come up. I'm fine not eating steak cause its not essential, its nice but I dont need it. Same goes with drugs. They are nice but I don't need them.



			
				Armymedic said:
			
		

> *Gee nbk, maybe this SEAL commander, after all he's done, wanted to experience more of what life had to offer?
> I wonder in this case in the US Navy just "condemning" this "good, decent and brave" sailor with their "very twisted and backwards policy"? *



Wow you quoted my post twice without me even responding. You must really fancy me. 

That guy was selling drugs, which I personally believe is wrong. However, since there is no legal way to get drugs, someone must sell them, in our capitalist society in order for people to get them. I do not blame the guy, I blame Adam Smith. The case you presented is a perfect example of why non addictive drugs should be legalized (although he was selling coke, which is addictive and he should be punished for, and exstacy which is unregulated, because it is illegal to manufacture and can contain all manner of bad things). So thank you for showing everyone why our laws are completely unjust and backwards. I agree with you on this account. Remember what I said before, drugs do not make bad people. Bad people make bad people.




			
				Slim said:
			
		

> To NBK and his band of buddies, all of whom insist that Drugs Are O.K.
> 
> Why, oh why, would you and your friends come on to a forum dedicated to serving and retired members of the CF and insist that abusing drugs is not only O.K but a positive, life changing experience?



Maybe I am under the false assumption that retired and serving members of the CF may be open to new and correct ideas and don't take offence when someone tries to expose their minds to new ideas and thoughts that they may take something intelligent away from. Why does anyone post anything anywhere? To exchange ideas and learn. What would be the point if someone posted a message saying "drugs are bad" and everyone replied with "yes" "I agree" "you are right"? Are you so insecure in your beliefs that you cannot tolerate someone showing how flawed they are, so instead of trying to defend your beliefs you have to attack the person and try to get him to disprove your ideas elsewhere?




			
				Slim said:
			
		

> Are you trying to convince us all that filling your system with chemicals that someone made in their basement is alright and a cool thing to do? "Hey look at me my mind is permanently damaged but I'm sooo cool!"   NOT



Again life is not an after school special. Moderate use of drugs does not damage your body any worse then moderate alcohol or moderate fast food. Does your body get damaged when you pop an Advil when you have a headache? No. but if you popped Advil several times every day it would get damaged. Advil is a drug as well and used improperly anything can hurt you. People who do drugs to fit in or "be cool" are really stupid. If you want to use drugs, do so for self discovery, not for anyone else. What is "cool" about doing drugs? Most people are uneducated like you and assume that people who do drugs are bad, why would anyone do them to "fit in"? That is one of the many many things that the silly drug education in schools has always got wrong. Most people don't do that, and its just stupid if you do.



			
				Slim said:
			
		

> There are websites dedicated to that subject. Perhaps you and yours would feel more at home posting on one of those instead of here...?



I am only one person. Are you seeing more then one of me? And you think I hallucinate...I do post on drug related message boards as well, but honestly I have better things to do then spend all day on the internet, thats why it takes me long to respond to all of your posts.



			
				Slim said:
			
		

> I don't think that this forum is liable to be very sympathetic to your view point. And I'm also concerned that some of the younger posters may actually be taken in by your "misguided posts"



If the youngsters are listening let me tell them one thing from someone who has had real world experience: Take everything in life in moderation. Take everything in life with a grain of salt. Do not do anything you dont want to, because in the end you will only answer to yourself. Do not believe everything you hear. Do not believe everything you see. You are not a bad person for choosing to experiment with drugs, but do not condemn people who dont, because you will look foolish. You are not a bad person for choosing not to experiment with drugs, although do not condemnt people who do, or you look foolish. Do not do drugs for the sake of any other people. Research research research. Know what you are doing. Know the risks, weigh the risks. Don't do anything on impulse. Have a trusted sober friend nearby if doing new drugs, although it doesn't hurt to have a sober friend nearby even if you think you know what you are doing. Drugs are not all the same. Purity of street drugs is not the same. Never expect anything from a drug. Never turn to drugs to solve problems. A drug is just a drug, it can enhance life if used correctly, but it is not your life.   




			
				Slim said:
			
		

> By the way welcome to the Ninjasniper's club. Somehow it seems appropriate...



I'm quite happy to be a part of army.ca's most prestigious group of elite superior and most intelligent individuals.



			
				Slim said:
			
		

> DRUGS ARE BAD! :skull:



THAT ADVICE IS BAD, AND THAT IS A STATEMENT MADE OUT OF IGNORANCE :skull:


----------



## Fusaki

nbk, I'm feeling a bit left out here.

You've got all your angles covered untill a guy who does have experience with drugs steps up and makes a point. As far as I can tell, your arguments are based on the "You don't know what it's really like" line. You can say that most of the other guys around here are just warped by media stereotype, but you can't make that claim about myself. You MUST have something to say, so lets hear it... You've got nothin.


----------



## George Wallace

nbk

I am soo glad that a nineteen year old has soo much wisdom.  That he knows so much and has so much experience and knowledge to pass on to the younger generation.  I guess I was born old and uneducated, that I don't know what a 'Life Experience' was and missed out on all of them at those Rock Concerts in Europe.  I bow down to your supreme being. :

Get a real life and stop trying to find it in hallucinogenics.

GW


----------



## Michael Dorosh

nbk said:
			
		

> I'm quite happy to be a part of army.ca's most prestigious group of elite superior and most intelligent individuals.



This won't be tolerated, nbk.  No one here is going to lay claim to any kind of moral, intellectual, ethnic, or military superiority to anyone else, especially not based on their choice of avatar.  You want to elevate yourself over the "masses" here, I suggest you do it with the quality of your posts.  

Army.ca is theoretically a rankless society where elements from across Canada - and beyond - can get together and discuss issues pertinent to Canada's Army - be they soldiers, veterans or civilians.  

The ones whose opinions count the most are, generally speaking, the ones that are out on ops right now, sweating and bleeding to protect your right to speak freely.  They don't have much time for drawing pictures on the internet of waxing prolific on a public sounding board.  They're too busy working for a living.

I'd be careful with just how far you plan on elevating your own status.

As to your "arguments" in this thread, they are well stated and while I am diametrically opposed to just about everything you say, I will defend your right to say it - even say it here - so long as you try and remember your place in the grand scheme of things.  We of the directing staff certainly are, and I am sure those serving soldiers who post here certainly are as well.  You're advised to keep it in mind.


----------



## badapple

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I am soo glad that a nineteen year old has soo much wisdom.   That he knows so much and has so much experience and knowledge to pass on to the younger generation.   I guess I was born old and uneducated, that I don't know what a 'Life Experience' was and missed out on all of them at those Rock Concerts in Europe.   I bow down to your supreme being. :
> 
> Get a real life and stop trying to find it in hallucinogenics.
> 
> GW



Prime example of a closed minded person, you probably didn't even read his post


----------



## badapple

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> You want to elevate yourself over the "masses" here, I suggest you do it with the quality of your posts.



im not trying to argue with a mod, but by the look and sound of his post, it was a quality one IMO.


----------



## combat_medic

nbk: Despite your weak attempts at justification, you are willingly and knowingly taking part in criminal activity. You have committed a number of crimes which, if prosecuted, would land you in prison. You say you aren't a criminal, and yet the only way you don't fall into the category of criminal is that you haven't been caught. Not only that, you support this criminal activity and show no remorse for your obviously illegal behaviour.

As for your weak attempts at justification: LSD stays in your system forever. It alters your DNA and can cause such severe mental disorders with repeated use such as schizophrenia or severe depression. Flashbacks, while only occuring in a minority of users, can happen up to two years and beyond after the last intake of the drug. Essentially, it makes you completely untrustworthy with a weapon, and if I discovered that a soldier I knew used it, I would never trust them with a weapon or in a stressful situation. Any person who needs to abuse illegal substances, obviously is lacking any kind of real coping mechanisms to deal with reality. If your mental state is so fragile that you require drugs in order to escape from real life, then you are certainly useless as a soldier and as a human being. 

You want to see some real effects of a mild dosage of LSD on professional soldiers? Look at this:

http://www.kontraband.com/show/popup.asp?ID=1160&TTVAL=2

It shows British soldiers being tested with LSD, and within less than 30 minutes, they became completely useless and couldn't even follow or give the simplest of commands. 

In any case, no matter how you attempt to justify your activities, you are a criminal, and it would be a complete loss to the CF in general is they allowed someone such as yourself to get into the military. If you don't have the mental fortitude to stay away from illegal, mind altering activities, then you will not have the mental fortitude to deal with the stresses of being a soldier. 

Also, doing drugs does not count as "experiencing what life has to offer". Doing drugs is for people who can't handle the reality of what life has to offer, and needs a form of escape, because they are so weak that they cannot handle the reality of their situation.


----------



## badapple

combat_medic said:
			
		

> It alters your DNA and can cause such severe mental disorders with repeated use such as schizophrenia or severe depression. Flashbacks, while only occuring in a minority of users, can happen up to two years and beyond after the last intake of the drug.



Can you point me to a MEDICAL or SCIENTIFIC study that explains how DNA changes when a person consumes a chemical??

IF that were true, a person could change thier DNA several times, thus theoretically covering his tracks from criminal accountability.   From the research i've read on DNA, it can't "naturally" be altered, "naturally" meaning without taking it into a lab and with several different complexe processes.   The exception to this are human stem cells.   

SO IT APPEARS AGAIN.........that we have yet another type of scare tactic, though i'm not saying you're the proprietor of it, just that you clearly got it from somewhere.

ALSO, NO ONE has said it's acceptable to consume drugs while on duty, same as alcohol.


----------



## -rb

This thread is going nowhere...a mod should lock this up as nbk and badapple are f**king retarded.

Take a walk down east hastings in Vancouver and try and tell me that it's the people behind the hash/crack pipe who are the real perpetrators, not the drug itself. These people just made some bad choices and it's there own fault for getting hooked right?  I realise personal choice of course has something to do with it but to negate any blame on the drugs as well is ridiculous. they should have known that it's only weed right? 

You obviously have no clue about life experience and what goes on around you. Smoking weed is OK but selling drugs are illegal which you don't advocate?? ...somewhat of a dichotomy to me. Who the f*ck do you think profits from the sale of so-called drugs? I'm sure it's not just your gay dealer who's making a buck off your foolish ways, it goes up the line in to violence and organized crime...which of course you don't support in any way right? But who cares, it's just weed after all.

nbk I truly hope your call never comes, and if it does, i hope you have the the balls to be as vocal about your opinions with your fellow soldiers as you do spouting your rants here. I have a feeling though you'd be saying about as much as your worth, nothing.


----------



## Scott

nbk, when it comes to educating myself, or others, about drugs, I will stick to the "after school specials" rather than the masses who enjoy expanding their minds, thank you.

I applaud your honesty, I did before, if the recruiters are happy with that then the case is closed. My questions of you were asked because you are only 19 and made it sound to me that you had been doing drugs for years. I did not mean to imply that you are a raving crack fiend, not at all.

I have no issues with a person choosing to do drugs on their own time and far away from me as it is my personal choice NOT to do them. But I do take exception to people reporting to work high or drunk for that matter, that's been covered. 

I firmly believe that there are certain occupations that require a person to be drug free, enough said, I have argued the merits of it before and do not feel like wasting bandwith doing it again.

I am curious as to where you get your facts from about drugs not being "that bad" for you.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

NBK,Badapple et al,
 Please, do not even think to give me a lecture on whether drugs are harmful or not, even in small amounts.
Come spend just 20 minutes with me tonight and we'll do a little tour of where I am spending the next 11 hours and 15 minutes. :crybaby:   Come see those who also thought that "I can do it" and see what has become of them.
I didn't get this from a book or a website ,[ I thought just like you do] I get this from what I KNOW after 16 years of seeing this day in-day out.
You may be right about the "small  controlled dosages" but there in lays the problem, you may be wrong also.
What the majority are trying to tell you is they don't want you next to them if, and when, your wrong.


----------



## Jarnhamar

> SO IT APPEARS AGAIN.........that we have yet another type of scare tactic


You know what buddy, you got us. Theres nothing wrong with drugs, go rob a store for some money (because comming crimes are ok) and get as high as possible.

NBK. That was a pretty well thought out post. Your pretty smart for being retarded 
I disagree with your opinion   but I actually wish I could i put to words my thoughts half as well as you can. 

I can't argue you point for point, anyone with half a brain can pretty much justify anything. It's easy when your smart. I've seen a webpage that tries to justify the theory that the holocaust never happened and to be honest, it was a hell of an argument. Obviously I know it did happen but just how the author worded it, used fatcs and asked the reader questions, i gotta say he made one hell of an argument. 

You make references about your life experiences. I'm not going to make this personal but is 19 or even 25 long enough to have a huge well of life experience?   I don't think so but to each their own.
you guys are arguing here with medics, guys with 20 years life experience on you and it looks like someone who deals with the after math of drugs every day.  I don't thinky ou have any legs to stand on.


This is the bottom line as i see it.
People interested in recruiting to the canadian forces and have questions about drugs can; 
-take the advice of civilians trying to get in OR they can take the advice of actual serving members.
-take the advice of older men and women with "life experience" or teen-agers with "life experience".


----------



## badapple

whoever said this thread is going nowhere is right, 

one person is claiming acid changes your DNA, which is downright retarded, 

another person is saying, come hang out with me, which im assuming they work in some sort of prison, hospital or institute, where there is all kinds of messed up people.   Hello, lets go to the local prision, i can show you the armed robbers and murderers who have "proven" that guns are bad.   Just because some people screw up to the extreme level, shouldn't mean everyone is labeled an "addict" and have a stigma of the type "your turn is coming, your just lucky you're not addicted yet".


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Alright Badfruit, who are you then Mr. empty profile. No age, no life experience, nothing.

So tell me, where the @#$% did you get so smart and if your not willing to provide that then sit back and shut up.
Yes I work in a prison and my name and what I've done is there for the viewing, ....
.....and you?


----------



## Jarnhamar

I'm willing to take a bet that most of those armed robbers and murderers in prison have been involved with drugs.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

...and you would be a winner!!!


----------



## spenco

NBK, I'm going to say what everyone else (save badapple) has been thinking and saying, but in a much more simple fashion so that perhaps you will understand; * You are full of shit! *   Please do not join the CF.


----------



## Infanteer

...this thread past its expiry date many days ago.   NBK, badapple; there is a reason that the CF enforces its drug policy and the professionals here who serve under these policies understand and support it for a variety of reasons.   Go somewhere else if you wish to debate the merits of drug abuse.

And if you DO wish to argue such matters here (for the sake of consuming more of our time) please, all members, refrain from reducing the thread to a "you are a retard..." pissing match.


----------



## Piccillo

I just got back from my Testing at 55 bay street north. in hamilton ontario. I was applying to join the Argyll and Suthrn Highlanders of Canada (ASH of C)

The Aptitude went perfect, I think I did pretty well. I got 2 pages of things I can be.

Then the interview. this is where my problems rose. I dont like to lie, about anything for any reason. so when he asked me what drugs I have tried, I was totally honest. There were 2 That I had done. One was fine since it was long enough ago. but the other was not.

Magic Mushrooms require a 3 year period after which You can join the armed forces. It has only been one year. But here is my problem. I have done one shroom, once. I even spat it out because it tasted so horrible.

Yet I stood in the rain, dreams crushed as I waited for my ride home letting my thoughts run wild.

I asked one of my friends online who is also in the Argylls what I should do. He dosent know aside from wait the 2 more years. which I dont want to do. He then recommended I come here and ask the good people on the Army.ca forums.

Most of you will reply with one of 2 answers "Dont Do Drugs" or "Wait the 2 years" well, to answer both..

I dont do drugs anymore, I have been drug free for 6 months, and I dont plan on ever doing any again. My life is to important ^_^. And I would wait the 2 years, but In 2 years my life will be going where I want it to. I want the army to be a part of that and I dont think i will be able to just squeeze it in, in 2 years. I want to grow my life around my involvment in the army (which i had hoped to be going fulltime in 2 years)

So does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do. The ONLY reason I was rejected, was a Shroom that ended up on the floor and I never even did. I did not have time to explaine this to my interviewer as I was promptly escorted out the door.

Feedback is greatly apriciated.


----------



## Torlyn

This is a killer...  The reason they want the three years is to ensure that you wont A: relaspe, and start taking again (I know this doesn't apply to you) and B: to ensure that the hallucinigenics will not still be in system.  To be honest, count yourself lucky it's only 2 years.  Mushrooms, LSD et al leave chemicals in your spinal column that stay there for life, and can resurface at any time.  Honestly was the best policy...  Have you tried calling the recruiters?  Problem is, if you try and do an end around on your interview, you'll be labelled an "administrative burden" and you'll never get in...  Again, check with your recruiters, but I think you're SOL.  Sorry, and I know it sucks, but 2 years isn't that long of a time, if you were intending to make the CF a career.

B.N.S.


----------



## Piccillo

I am seriously thinking i should have lied about my shroom experiance.

In my life i have done 2 types of drugs..pot (2-3 times a month for 4 months) and shrooms (once, and i spat it out cuz it tasted like shit)

the pot was waved, even thou i stoped 4 months ago, and the requiered time is 6, he waved it. i was so thankfull

but the mushrooms, even thou in the end of the experiance i hadnt digested it (which is how it affects you) i was rejected. since it was only this morning i was rejected i am still steamed about it, and trying to find another way to join the army


----------



## Piccillo

I was intening to make CF a carreer if it was an option. I want things in my life by time im 20, this includes a fulltime job (was gonna be the army) and a place of my own. this can no longer happen as in 2 years, If i do decide to try once again to join the army, i will be just that...just joining. meaning no fulltime job. and no place of my own, my goals i strived to achive are gone.

The chemicals never actually entered my body, as I did spit the shroom out (if you have ever tasted these things you will understand..they taste so bad..) so therefore the chemical cannot still be in my spinal fluid, as it wasnt never there.

I might call the recruitment center, but i dont wanna go about this the wrong way. I was just down there and such, how am i going to explain myself? "Hi, I was rejected for a bullshit reason, test me again" I dont think that will blow over well.

It WAS 9 months ago, It WAS one shroom, and it WAS on the floor at the end of the day. So technically I never even did shrooms. I wasnt thinking clearly i guess when he asked me. I should have made it more clear on just what extent i had actually "tried" them. Im an idiot :| now its all about correcting my mistake. I cannot go back 9 months ago and not take the shroom. But calling the recruitment center....that might be an idea. But how am i supposed to explain myself? What do i say so i dont look like a fool?


----------



## Righty

> It WAS 9 months ago, It WAS one shroom, and it WAS on the floor at the end of the day



Well this is NOW and your going to have to live with it NOW for what you did and what you said. So take it like a man and wait your two years. Cause if you try to explain yourself now there going to think your lieing...


----------



## Piccillo

Same here sorta. 

Before my interview, but after the CFAT me and the rest of the group were sitting in the waiting room, and one at a time a few of us were pulled aisde and into an office...3 of us (including myself) the other 2 picked up there gear and went home. when the man was talking to me he said "you have done pot recently (4 months ago) but it was only for a short time, so we are going to wave it" im like..thank GOD and sat back down with the other guys 

then i was interviewed, and when he gave me a sheat of drugs (i never seen so many drugs...) and ask which i have done, i carfully went threw the list, said "marajuana, and Magic Mushrooms once" he said "you never said MM on your form" im like...well yea i did it once and didnt think it would matter, but i think its a good idea to tell you anyway. even thou it was once about a year ago.

at that time he stood up, walked me to the door and said "come back in 2 years"

and here i sit...waiting...


----------



## Piccillo

>_< i done the waiting 2 years thing thou!! (when i was 16, my parents wouldnt sign for it, so i had to wait till i was 18 [now]) and its not enjoyable!! i workout and train like crazy, i do everything i can..and i get shut down again and told to wait agian. its so frustrating, i mean..im PERFECT for the army life. i did shrooms once, but alot of people have done alot worse and managed to join the armed forces just fine im sure.  GAH these next 2 years is gonna be hell...


----------



## Torlyn

You've got two years.  GEt a technical diploma in something, or start a degree, that way when you do join up in two years, you'll have more to offer the CF, and will (most likely) receive a more rewarding posting.  18 is still young.  I know many of us in the recruiting section that are just applying now are mid- to late 20's...  You've got time.  I know it probably doesn't feel like that right now, but stay the course, and you'll get there.  Hate to sound like my father, but patience is a virtue.  All good things come to those who wait.  Good luck.

B.N.S.


----------



## Cloud Cover

Piece of advice Piccillo .... you are a very young man, and you have time to recover from this setback. Go to college and make yourself more desirable for the CF, this will help you immensely when you re-apply. Take electrical intrumentation or a similar diploma, and try and get into a co-op program. The work experience will demonstrate maturity and the diploma enhances your credibility because it will prove you have the capacity and discipline to learn.   And stay the %$^%$ off drugs and out of trouble.


----------



## ModlrMike

Not to sound mean but you've just learned the most valuable lesson there is. Everything has a cost. In this case, your dalliance with mushrooms cost you 2 years. Follow the advice to get a technical diploma, stay clean, and apply again.


----------



## commando_wolf63

When Recruiting gives you that list read thru it carefully...When I was given the list to read of what drug's I may/may not have done I glanced thru the list and said I haven't done any drugs  I was told to look thru it closely  listed was alcohol which then I had said yes


----------



## Torlyn

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> "theres so many strong applicants with no past drug history"
> 
> Seems to me most of the people enquiring about joining have done drugs in the past, according to the posts anyways.



The ones that are asking about applying...  Wonder if they've actually applied?  

B.N.S.


----------



## Piccillo

Makes sence. Never thought of it as time to get a degree. Since im no longer in school i need to wait 2 years to get my GED first...o.o

well, I had a nice shower, and I have decided to wait the 2 years. You all were a really great help. Ima use this time to get in better shape, and to Find some way to get a Degree or sumthing of that sort. thanks alot!


----------



## Piccillo

Yea, and caffine is on the list to, which i was originally "no" to as well, (this is just after the CFAT when they give youa  sheet to fill out) but the guy said "are you .. SURE" haha


----------



## Bograt

Piccillo said:
			
		

> I am seriously thinking i should have lied about my shroom experiance.



Whoever told you that doing the right thing would be easy? Life is a tough teacher, it gives you the test then the lesson.

Suck it up, and take the lesson now. It will make you a better person. No one is owed anything in this life, and in the end all you have is your word- once that is lost, so is everything else.

2 spins around the Sun isn't that long.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

You might feel it would be better to have lied now but if it ever came to light that you lied during your interview I guarantee you would not have a legal leg to stand on. Honesty is the best policy, to tell the truth and take the consequences shows character. Lying about it and then having your buddies find out about it later only lets the whole team down and you would never be trusted again. 

In the mean time make use of your two years, get on courses that will make you even more of an asset to the CF. You will be seen as someone who turned their life around and as an example to others.


----------



## Piccillo

Thats what im pretty much doing. 

I am taking these 2 years to get into better physical condition, to better serve the CF. And I will try and get a degree, but with my poor school situation, that might not happen. but ima try anyhow ^_^


----------



## G-spot

whatever now you have lots of time to train for BMQ


----------



## IWannaBePPCLI

Yeah. like Graeme said.. You have lots of time for BMQ pre Training... I will be doing my Reserves BMQ next school year (apporximately 1 year and 4 months away)  and i have JUST started training... I hope to be in better shaoe then most.. set some goals ... like for instance i got goals like...by the time BMQ hits i want to be able to run 5 km in 18 minutes (hard as it is thats my goal lol)  and i want to be able to do 30 chinups, 50 situps and 50 pushups (cosecutively of course)   Also your goals could very well be as said before.. get a degree in tech and maybe one in something else too  (if you can afford it) and train alot!!!

Best of wishes to you and if you ever want a training buddy I will be glad to... i am Hamilton mountain but i will come to you or visa versa depending on circumstances.

good luck.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Thats brutal troop sorry to hear that. If the way your write on here say anything about your atitude than you'll be a definate asset to the army. Wait out, the army will still be here...(hopefully...lol)


----------



## Jascar

Think about applying for the British Army. From what I've read, they're not quite so........uptight about drug use. There is drug testing of course, and drug use in the past is frowned upon, but they understand that some young people try drugs and probably won't make you wait 2 years. Plus you have another chance at that interview.


----------



## Baskin

get a drug test, show them its not in your system. or anywhere else for that matter. Could work, most likely not.


----------



## Piccillo

im waiting the 2 years, i might try again next summer and tell them to test me if they think it will be aproblem, for a one time use I shouldnt have to wait the full 3 years.

I do however have one qeustion that i have GREAT fear about after reading some other posts related to mine.

IN how ever long it takes, I join, but They decide to acecpt me, yet not hire me or give me a job, because of my past drug use. I didnt do PCP or anything, and I never did it regularly. I was bluntly honest about it and im going to wait it out. But am I just pissing in the wind here? are they going to shut me down anyhow because i have done it, no matter how long ago? if so it would be nice to know now. even though the guy said come back. Im sure if he knew i wasnt ever going to make it, he woulda told me. i was really dissapointed in myself in his office, and i showed it with great sighs and such .

aside from that one question..whats BMQ? Basic..uhh...Military..uhh...quiz? lol i have no idea. 

I just got off a 9 hour shift at work, i been up almost a full 24 hours (army testing included) and am sore, sorry if my post made no sence.

And traning, Im your man! Im getting my license soon and should be able to go up to you at least some of the time (busses suck but are helpfull ^_^)

OH and as for the British army. I am canadian, like the beer commericals say so!! And how much of a fool would i look like. British uniform on, Yet a canadian Tatoo on my leg, yea, real patriotic for me *cheer*

Canadian army is what i want. Argylls is what i want. I never get what i want, but i want this more!!


----------



## Torlyn

Um, a drug test for mushrooms would involve a spinal tap, which is neither comfortable nor cheap...  And I don't think the CF is worried about the residual drugs more than the lack of judgement shown so close to applying for such an important position...

B.N.S.


----------



## Tuff_Little_Girl

Hey, 

This is a reply for what the come back in 2 years. I knew a guy cant say names, just recently got in the forces he was the biggest dope dealer around you name it he sold it and even did it, When i joined the the reserves when i was 16 years old he envvied me, he wanted to do it too but he couldnt stop his drug addiction. Im now 22 years old and im in the regular force i saw him a month ago when i was on vacation in owen sound he was based at CFB meaford, this was is his first year in the army, he is totally changed guy now doesnt even do drugs anymore let alone drink, but my point is he did drugs up to the point before he got in he stopped at the recruiting stage, and they didnt tell him to come back in 2 years cause if they told him that he would still be out there selling and doing it, but he is not i dont know what he said to them but im sure if you called the to make an appointment to tell them what you didnt get to tell them then im sure they would reconsider i know my friend did that he told them that he sold  it and they didnt want to hear about it the told him to leave and 2 weeks later he had a chance to prove that he would do it and to explain the rest of his story and why he really wanted to be in the army, he told me that the army changed him for good and that he is happy that they gave him a second chance at the interview. I really hope they give you a second chance everyone deserves a second chance to explain themselves, so talk with your recruiting office and see what you can do this is all the info i can give you 
i really hope this helps

MCPL King


----------



## Piccillo

he sounds like one of my friends  but my friend didnt join the army, he became a cop 

The way im thinking about working this now is to Train like a mofo till next Summer, Then try again. Im not exactly at the level of fitness i wanted to be at when I join the armed forces, But I was going to join anyhow. Now I think ima Train first, Then join.

^_^ thanks for the help though


----------



## Tuff_Little_Girl

Hey,

I just read your relpy back to what i had said. Well that is a good idea to train if you think you are unable to hack it physically. When i joined i knew i was going to have a problem i was 5 3 and i still am and at the time i wieghed 100 lbs now it is 110lbs but i thought that man cause i was small that it aint happening but i tell you the BMQ and and the SQ isnt really physically demanding at all it is more your emotions they get at how well  you can do things under stress that kinda stuff, well im sure what ever you choice you will be happy with but if the army is what you really want to do i would jump at the first chance you get cause later you maybe kicking yourself in the ass for not going for it the first time, well im sure they would give you a second chance at the interview but then again in 2 years you can straighten your self out and try again.

i hope that whatever you do in life you secceed 
but remember that there is only once chance in life to jump at something great

MCPL King


----------



## Tuff_Little_Girl

in case you are wondering what BMQ and SQ and BIQ stand for:
BMQ stands for basic military qualifications
SQ stands for soldier qualifications and every soldiers needs take this course before they are a really soldier and before you can get your private level 1
BIQ is your Basic infantry qualifications you only take this course if you want to be an infantry soldier this is where it gets tough.


----------



## Piccillo

031 infantry all the way!

lol

m going in next summer to try again, i figure any sooner and itll just be harder then it has to be. im in good enough shape now, but i dont want to be in good enough shape. i wanna be in perfect shape.


----------



## AlphaCharlie

The thing is, your didn't acctually consume the drug. You put it in your mouth then spit it out.  I don't think that constitutes "taking shrooms".


----------



## Baskin

031 deathteks


----------



## Piccillo

yea, i never once said i "DID" shrooms, i was reading threw the list, and i saw "magic mushrooms" i said "i have tried that once". i think i made a BIG BIG technical error in not .. elaborating on the topic.

but saying i never even tried them, would be a flat out lie. because i have, just just never DONE them. Its a fine line thnat i never crossed. But i dont think the army really cares. Like someone said already, its not the fact that i might still have drugs in my system, its that i was irresponsible enough to take them in the first place. or *TRY* them.

either way, everything in life happens for a reason. In this case its to tell me that im not ready in some way for the army life, or that somthing is going to happen in the next year o.o Either way ima work out like crazy to get in the best possible shape, and i will stay surrounded by things going on in the army. ^_^ Arguing with the people who say what goes is never a good idea, right or wrong, they are right. always.


----------



## greener

In my mind, and I imagine in others as well, "TRY" and "DID" is the exact same thing. I wouldn't assume everyone knows there's a difference .. if there even is.


----------



## Bograt

greener said:
			
		

> In my mind, and I imagine in others as well, "TRY" and "DID" is the exact same thing. I wouldn't assume everyone knows there's a difference .. if there even is.


You are really splitting hairs here. Kind of reminds me of Clinton's response to his sexual relations to Ms. Lewinsky - "Well, it depends on what your definition of "is" is."
Ridiculous.

Lets very quickly review Piccillo's situation.
He admitted to CFRC that he had used soft drugs and it was within six months.
He then admits to "experimenting" with mushrooms.
In other posts he has referenced that he has a "coloured" past and has associated with drug dealers.
He is 18 with no post secondary education and is admittedly not in the shape he wants to be in to join.

Come on. 

Piccillo, this was not an affront to you or your situation. Stay focus on what you want. Admittedly you made some mistakes and now are moving forward in your life. Don't waste time discussing the semantics.

As an aside it didn't matter what the definition of   "is" was- it didn't remove the stain from that blue dress.


----------



## humint

Piccillo:

Well, there's not much you can do now, as you've already owned up to it. Its' good to be honest, so leave it at that. With regards to re-appying, start to bug the people at CFRC every six months or so. You never know, your persistence may pay off. 

You may also want to come down to the unit to speak with me about this situation. I'm in every Wed evening, from 1800 hrs onwards.


----------



## Cliffy433

Don't know if it was covered yet - once again, too lazy to read all the posts - but I worked as the Med A in CFRC Winnipeg for six weeks to cover off for someone on sick leave.   I don't know EXACTLY which illicit drugs fall under which category, but I hope the following helps:

1. Soft Drugs:
Mod note: information removed

2. Hard Drugs:
Mod note: information removed

3. Hallucinogens:
Mod note: information removed

The list above is NOT exhaustive, and it's entirely possible timelines are out of whack.   Essentially, if you experimented a little in high school (pun fully noted), no big deal.   You simply express displeasure with the experience, or maturity - or whatever your reason for no longer doing it.   Don't say you stopped 'cause your dealer was thrown in jail though - that implies you'll go back as soon as you can find one.

No, the Medic is not taking your urine sample to test for drugs - blood, sugar, protien - that's all.   However, depending on how you react to providing a urine sample will change the timeline of when you get interviewed WRT drug usage.

You should be fine - be honest, stay clean.

cliffy


----------



## Piccillo

i work evnings, and so far i worked every wensday. i usually work from *thinks zulu time* 1700 - 0100 in the morning 

but i will see what i can do i havnt checked the schedual for this week as it went up last night after i left . the RC is the place on bay street right, not the armory on james street. and if so who should i ask for? (*note* i dont like the hamilton streets, im always getting lost in all the one way traffic :S lol)


----------



## George Wallace

That means you get off work at around 0700 EST and with an hour fudge factor, their office should be just opening up....take a little longer at Tim Hortons and then they will be open and waiting for you.

PS  Zulu is what time it is in Grenwhich / London England.  We are six hours later.  Right?

Gw


----------



## Piccillo

i was useing the 24 hour clock, i thought it was called zulu, i honestly have no idea.

why would i be here if i lived in england?

The guy said he gets there about an hour AFTER i start work, and since i work till 1am in the morning, i doubt he is still there when i finish


----------



## Sine22

Piccillo:

One thing that I have picked up from your posts is that you don't seem to have realized that the consumption of Mushrooms is a poor decision.  You also do not seem to be under the realization that consuming mushrooms is a very negative and detrimental activity that can cause severe health and mental problem.  You have said a number of times that basically the only reason that you will not do mushrooms again is that they taste bad but not because you now know that they are an illicit drug whose effects can harm you mentally and physically.  Does this mean that if the mushrooms could be made to taste good that you would try them again or have you indeed matured from your experimentation and now realize the error and danger of your ways?  I may be mistaken but if you were to tell a recruiter that the only reason that you did not consume them and will not try them again is because they taste bad then he/she may not get a good depiction that you have matured and are a fit candidate for employment by the CF.  If this is not the case then I hope that someone can correct me and I am sorry for the confusion but I seriously think that you need to re-consider the reasons why you do not do drugs and make sure that it is for the right reasons and not because they were not a pleasent tasting food.

Just to clarify this is not a degradation of Piccillo I was just trying to point out that this waiting period may be a good time for you and anyone else in the same position to grow a little and realize what they want and how badly they want it.  It can be used very effectively to grow and mature and work on improving yourself which you seem to be set on doing.  Also, I am not in the forces and nor have I even applied yet.  I would be in the same position as Piccillo if I were to apply because of a poor decision that I made a couple of years ago with the experimentation with mushrooms.  I did actually consume them and regretted it almost immediately after I had finished eating them.  But at that point there was nothing that I could change and I have to now live with that decision.  I know that it was a stupid thing to do and after that I never had any desire to ever try them again.  Now I can try and blame the people that I was doing them with as they all said that it was a fun experience and the "cool" thing to do but lets be honest here.  It was my decision to do them and it was my decision alone.  They provided advice in the matter and then I made a decision and tried mushrooms and do not blame anyone for that decision but myself.  It was a dumb thing to do and I know the consequences and the negative and detrimental aspects of the drug and never want to ever do it again.  It is not what I need in my life as I would hope to go somewhere with my life and hope to eventually get into the CF.

I am planning on applying in early January so that by the time that I graduate from UBC in April the selection boards will have hopefully have had a chance to select the candidates and will offer positions so that I can go right to BOTP after I graduate (provided that I pass all the tests and my poor judgement in the past does not destroy my chances which is a possibility) and get started on my career.  Sorry for the rant but Piccillo I would suggest that you think about what I suggested in the first couple of paragraphs and when you re-apply to the CF it may go a bit smoother if they see that you have matured and now have better judgement.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Piccillo

Dont think for a second that I would ever even THINK about do any type of drug again. I was stupid back then and made a stupid mistake. I would love to be able to blame someone else but I cannot as it was my stupid choice to do drugs. The main reason I don ever want to touch a drug again is not because it may taste bad, but because they are bad for your health. I look back on those days when I hung out with those kinds of people and realize how messed up they actually are. I no longer hang around those people, I dont associate with them in any way shape or form. That stage in my life is over and I have moved on to bigger and better things, such as the CF. Mistakes I made in the past are just that mistakes. Only thing I can do now is to live with them and try my hardest to correct any negitive effects they are now having on my life.


----------



## IWannaBePPCLI

yes that is so true.. and sine22.. u started with saying about the "consumption" of drugs... dude.. HE DiDNT ACTUALY TAKE IT!!!!  Does that not constitute that he at least made one right choice... wether it is because of tatse or health concernes.. h didnt consume ANY drugs... that makes yme wonder wether you actually read the posts carefully... I do however understand how you would say that... I wouldnt say it that way BUT ... You are NOT at fault and nor am I accusing you of anything bad or putting you down.. I just noticed u didnt put in your first statement what he actually said as versus what you may or may not think.   Too much typing for me so i'll sign off now lol  bye


----------



## Sine22

AspiringL.I. said:
			
		

> yes that is so true.. and sine22.. u started with saying about the "consumption" of drugs... dude.. HE DiDNT ACTUALY TAKE IT!!!!



Sorry for mis-wording of my post.  I did read the post and I did read that he had not technically consumed the drug.  However, the intention of why he put in his mouth was for the consumption of the shrooms and the get high and experience what the effects of the drug is.  With that intention he showed that he had the idea that it might be a good idea to actually consume the drug.  On another note it may be looked as that even though he never swallowed the shrooms that he did "consume" them since they werre in his mouth and he would have had to chew them a bit to realize that the taste was bad.  So from that point of view he did consume the drug to a certain extent.

The main intention of the post was to make certain that he was not using the drug for the right reasons and not simply because they did not taste good, which from his latest post he seems to have and that is the important issue here.



			
				Piccillo said:
			
		

> Dont think for a second that I would ever even THINK about do any type of drug again. I was stupid back then and made a stupid mistake. I would love to be able to blame someone else but I cannot as it was my stupid choice to do drugs. The main reason I don ever want to touch a drug again is not because it may taste bad, but because they are bad for your health. I look back on those days when I hung out with those kinds of people and realize how messed up they actually are. I no longer hang around those people, I dont associate with them in any way shape or form. That stage in my life is over and I have moved on to bigger and better things, such as the CF.



Piccillo:

Just to re-iterate I was not implying that you would do the drug again I just wanted to make sure that you were re-fraining from them for the right reasons.  From your post it sounds like you have and that is good.  I wish you all the luck when you do re-apply and am glad to see that you are making the right decisions for the right reasons.



			
				AspiringL.I. said:
			
		

> yes that is so true.. and sine22.. u started with saying about the "consumption" of drugs... dude.. HE DiDNT ACTUALY TAKE IT!!!!


Cheers

Dave


----------



## IWannaBePPCLI

OK.. I guess you make a great point and I am sorry for jumping on you.. but like i said i was just trying to make sure... I hope you dont dislike me or anything because of this.... I appreciate you pointing these things out... please check my other posts to see if i need any more corrections    I hope That you have a good time and I will go check my other posts... bye.


----------



## Sine22

AspiringL.I. said:
			
		

> ... I hope you dont dislike me or anything because of this....



On the contrary I am glad the you have pointed this out so that I was able to clarify what I had posted previously.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## GregC

Piccillo, I won't bother commenting on the drugs as many already have, I can tell you realized you made a mistake and I commend you in your honesty with the interview questions.

The only advice I can give is to perhaps follow my lead. I found out my eyes weren't good enough for the infantry about 6 months ago, so I went and got laser eye surgery. So since I have to go through the doctor's appt's and the CF's waiting period, I decided to make the most out of my time and learn skills that would enhance my application. I haven't read this entire thread, so some of this or none of this may apply to you in particular:

Have you finished high school? Have you ever been interested in martial arts (I have a black belt in taekwondo myself)? I have also taken the standard 2 day first aid course with St John's ambulance and it was extremely interesting, interesting enough that I have signed up for the advanced Level III 5 week course. Not only are these courses very cool, I believe they will look very good on my application to the army. I've also decided to brush up on my french, as I took it for many years in high school, and knowledge of french in today's bilingual army can only be seen as a plus. Do you have a gym membership? Although I have long been an occasional gym visitor, with my waiting period stretching out ahead of me I have become something of a gym rat, perhaps it is something you could get into as well.

So perhaps look at this as an opportunity instead of a setback. I was quite devastated to learn that I would have to remain in Vancouver for at least an additional 12-18 months, but after awhile I got off my butt and made the best of the situation. Best of luck to you.


----------



## IWannaBePPCLI

Sine22... i will be happy to talk more with you and get to better know you... and all others on this site!!!  good luck in your days!!


----------



## Lost_Warrior

Why did you do Much?  Dude...that shit will fuk you up for good!   But im not your mother....


----------



## IWannaBePPCLI

Lost warrior... we need mor epeople like you who understand that  they arent the parwent.. but can still recommend stuff lol  I hope that you are as .. i dont know what u r really but i dont want to put u under judgement either.. so forget that.. jts stay u... or something like that.. LOL  GOOD LUCK EVERYONE WTH ALL THEIR LIVES!!!  PM ME IF You want to talk to me!!


----------



## Piccillo

I am buying weights with my next check from work (friday) and will workout almost non-stop to get into the best fitness i can come next summer, when i intend to re-apply

as for school, unfortunatly its one of my weakest points. I dont know why either cuz i learn things amazingly fast i just never want to go to class. which is odd because at work i love going and pick up extra shifts  i dont know whats wrong with me and school. but I plan to get my GED in 2 years time. I may try and get into some adult learning programs to get additional credits if i can.

after the first 2 days i realized this as more of an oppertunity then a setback actually, its only now that i am beginning to take advantage of it. my eyes are pretty crappy to and i am going infantry  i wonder if ill pass the eye exam.


----------



## fleeingjam

Dude, i know how you feel, i got rejected for asthma that i dont even think i have anymore also they were like wait a year...dont take pufferes than retry..also i am due for some sugery to correct my underbite (common thing) so there like hey we gonna make em wait a year might as well write this in the letter to " also once you have recovered from you surgery your case can be re-considered" it think like these that make me spaz.

-Med Staff RULE!!!!!!!!!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!! :rage:
-Good luck


----------



## Sirch

Hello everyone, my names Chris im 15 and I took weed only once when i was 13, do you think it'll affect my recruiting when i'm about 20?
I indeed don't take anything anymore and will not. Reply soon please.


----------



## Cpl. Williamson

I can See No Way 7 Years would Affect your enrollment if it was Only "pot"


----------



## Redeye

It won't.  I smoked some dope in high school, and admitted it to recruiters, that I hadn't touched the stuff in a few years, and was told that it was nothing they were worried about... best not to lie about it, of course.


----------



## Charlie

Okay, Ive read a lot already on this subject but im getting too many different answers....so im gonna write my own.  Im 18 Ive smoked weed a couple of times (literally) in my life. I really hated the stuff, knew it was bad for my health and any ambitions i might have in the future....so i havent touched the stuff since and i dont plan on ever doing drugs again.  THis is what im planning on telling the recruiter....is this a good idea?  Do they give everyone urine tests and how long does marijuana stay in the system.  ANd lastly since i only did it twice and i dont plan on doing it ever again should this be a major problem?  Please dont answer this topic if youre not sure of what youre talking about ...i need definite answers.  THanks. Peace.


----------



## Michael OLeary

Charlie, there are seven threads linked from the Recruiting FAQ that round up the opinions you will receive on drug use and admission of same to your Recruiter. You may want to review them.

Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/forums/threads/17073.0.html


----------



## trebor8301

Ok buddy when it comes to pot it all depends on frecunancy of use and how much. Since you said it was only twice then it shouldn't be dectable in a urine test after 1 1/2 months(That means no weed at all including SECOND HAND SMOKE)   But if you are just in case a heavy user it could be between 3-6 months.

If it were a blood test it will stay in a lot longer cause is stored in your fat tissues, how long i'm not sure there is a plenty off sites that will tell you. But stay off for 6 months just in case thats why the recruiters will tell you. IF your going to the regualar force they will take a blood test during BMQ, in the reserves from what i have heard its just a urine test.

Hope it answers your question! 

Mod edit - second hand smoke will not create "false positives". That being said, people in, or aspiring to be in the Military should not be in situations that expose them to secondhand smoke....


----------



## muskrat89

When making statements to your Recruiter, I wouldn't recommend throwing "peace" on the end.....


----------



## winchable

You're alright, just tell the truth, nuff said, thread closed.


----------



## Butters

Finally after 3 weeks of waiting by phone I got my call to do my last 2 things, interview/medical. I'm not so worried about my interview, but my medical... I was wondering what should I be expecting? Is there anything I should bring? what exactly goes on during the medical?


----------



## carpediem

From the FAQ (you might want to read this, it's always the first post in this board/topic).

See Medical test  --  http://army.ca/forums/threads/18298.0.html


----------



## SEB123

you dont have to bring anything


----------



## bigwig

For my medical I had to strip down to my shorts and then he would look in my ears and mouth and all that stuff. They bend your arm and legs around and ask you "does it hurt when I do this". They also ask you do walk in weird ways so that it shows them you have nothing wrong with your legs or anything like that. Oh and if you're wondering if they cup a feel and ask you to cough, they dint. That is pretty much it.

Edit: Sorry forgot another thing. They put a set of headphones on your ears and ask you to push a button everytime you hear the beep sound. They make you do a standard eye exam where you need to identify letters from a distance and look at a book and identify numbers that are hard to see.... you'll see when you get there. Nothing to be worried about.

Hope that answers some questions.


----------



## QORvanweert

medical. show up and fill out medical history form. urinate in designated container. take aforementioned container and form into adjoining room. do vision test without glasses(if applicable) and then w/ glasses. then colour blindness test. followed by hearing test. you then leave that room and get turned over to a medic of your sex. they will take you into another room and review medical history form. they will ask you to disrobe leaving only appropriate undergarments and leave while you are doing it. then return and check ears, eyes, and breathing in various positions. then a quick reflex hammer thing... which is weird, kinda like in the movies, then they tell you to get dressed and you are done. it was my experience that unless you have something obviously wrong about you, if your health everyday is normal then you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## fleeingjam

If you have asthma, heart issues, bloodpressure etc. Be ready to face A CRAP load of question and possible rejection, escpeically if you are going for R-031 Infantry.


----------



## SEB123

and 043 sapper


----------



## Nat. Cap. Girl

what do they ask you on the medical form


----------



## SEB123

if you had any past or present injury, concussion, broken bone, if you have any scar, etc.


----------



## Nat. Cap. Girl

SEB123 said:
			
		

> if you had any past or present injury, concussion, broken bone, if you have any scar, etc.



How much does it slow down your application process if you have?


----------



## SEB123

It don't slow your application unless there his problem


----------



## Nat. Cap. Girl

k thanks


----------



## mjr payne

what does the medical all intall? and do they need my doctors file and do any reocuringinjuries  prevent a person from passing the medical?


----------



## brin11

Hello,

Please check this link from the FAQs and see if your questions have been answered.  If not, I'm sure someone here can help you out.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/17073/post-103980.html#msg103980

Good luck.


----------



## Chewy

In the medical they only ask the basic stuff, have you ever broken anything , have you had any serious diseases, are you on any medication,just stuff they need to start a basic medical history for you.


----------



## Bushman

will a minor knee injury (from downhill mountainbiking) pose a risk to the application process? i mean i always get some pain after a hike, but that seems normal to me?

 ???


----------



## QORvanweert

just remember, about your health, they only know what you tell them. so, in your discretion if your knee injury is not serious then save yourself the trouble. however, this is not an appropriate path and so I would not recommend you take it. someplace up north they have a bunch of monkeys on typerwriters. They exist only to create forms for you to fill out. most of these forms do not make sense and are extremely repetitive, and are all sent to the recruiting centers. so, make the choice for yourself. and, BEWARE the curse of the forms.


----------



## Bushman

thanks!  8)


----------



## PARAMEDIC

just another quick heads up 

No caffene and no nicotine  for at least 4 hrs before the test or they will ask you to reschdule your appointment and remember to keep hydrated. Go to the little boys/girls room an hour before the test as bladder pressure turns into elevated blood pressure.


----------



## QORvanweert

PARAMEDIC said:
			
		

> Go to the little boys/girls room an hour before the test as bladder pressure turns into elevated blood pressure.



But keep enough for the urine sample...


----------



## jcschild

:crybaby:

Well real bummer for me this morning.  I went in for testing to the Recruiting Centre here in Winnipeg.  And because of past use of mushroom and LCD I am on hold.  

What really bums me out is that it was so hard for me to remember all these things because I did drugs quite a long time ago and so I estimated way too high...I put down 100 for times used.  The counsellor told me that what they do is send it to Headquarters because they have to decide whether they can approve me or not.  When in the room with him I told him it was hard for me to remember but that it was probably about that amount...but now...I realize after thinking about for quite some time....that is was much lower than that like 25.  

He told me that it's not only time...but it's really more about amount of times you have used.  They worry because you might have times where you have flashbacks...(which I haven't)...and whether it is safe with your use of weapons and stuff like that.

So...I understand...but I am dissapointed..why didn't I take it more seriously and give a more accurate amount.  Everybody was waiting for me to finish filling out the form...arghh.  Well I understand but I hope there is another chance for me.

Any suggestions anyone!!

Thanks.


----------



## StormTrooper

jcschild said:
			
		

> :crybaby:
> 
> Well real bummer for me this morning.   I went in for testing to the Recruiting Centre here in Winnipeg.   And because of past use of mushroom and LCD I am on hold.
> 
> What really bums me out is that it was so hard for me to remember all these things because I did drugs quite a long time ago and so I estimated way too high...I put down 100 for times used.   The counsellor told me that what they do is send it to Headquarters because they have to decide whether they can approve me or not.   When in the room with him I told him it was hard for me to remember but that it was probably about that amount...but now...I realize after thinking about for quite some time....that is was much lower than that like 25.
> 
> He told me that it's not only time...but it's really more about amount of times you have used.   They worry because you might have times where you have flashbacks...(which I haven't)...and whether it is safe with your use of weapons and stuff like that.
> 
> So...I understand...but I am dissapointed..why didn't I take it more seriously and give a more accurate amount.   Everybody was waiting for me to finish filling out the form...arghh.   Well I understand but I hope there is another chance for me.
> 
> Any suggestions anyone!!
> 
> Thanks.



Well, there is really nothing much you can do about it but to wait. You can always go to your local CFRC and tell them what happened, but I don't think that its gonna change anything.

I smoked pot almost 2 years ago, and I took only 3 puffs out of it... And they are still running the background check on me, so that's gonna take a little while longer.. Is there a chance of me getting rejected because of this?


----------



## cool guy

Hi,
I have a bet with someone I know that when you take the medical it has to be with someone of the opposite sex. I know this sounds dumb cause I've read the forms and it says it could be same or opposite and if it's the opposite sex you can have a spectator (like it's a sport or something). Anyways, could anyone post a link to a spot on the dnd site proving that she's wrong? if not can you post first hand information proving me right?(preferably because it may have changed in the last couple years)


----------



## Torlyn

jcchild:

Alrighty then...  The drug issue has been dealt with MANY times on this board...  (Not trying to be a dick, but do a search for drugs, and you'll see the threads).  Look, there isn't a member serving out there on this board that has said "drug use isn't a big deal".  You have used, and sure, it was in your past, but those decisions DO reflect on your ability to serve.  Even if (as you say) you've only done mushrooms or acid 25 times, that's a LOT.  The hallucinogenics stay in your system forever, and the CF is aware of that.  Do you really think that you'll be put in a position where your decisions could adversely affect the outcome and LIVES of any troops if there's a remote chance of you having a flashback?  You might not see the justice in it, but you know what, the decisions you make even as a teenager effect your life REGARDLESS of whether you persue a military career or not.

You have to look at it from a potential employer's point of view...  At first, even when you were given ample time to determine the actual amounts of the various narcotics you may (or may not) have taken, you stated that you had taken chemical hallucinogens over 100 times.  Your application is adversely affected by such a statement, and now you want to go back and change it?  That does not bode well for either the CF or any potential employee.   Perhaps you should wait a few years, go to school, volunteer, whatever, and re-evaluate your desire to put yourself in a position that requires such stringent background policies.  I'm not trying to deter you, but you have made some horrible decisions in your past, and you have to realize that you now have to face the consequences of those decisions.  Sorry, but sometimes life truly sucks, and you do have to deal with the hand that God dealt you.

T

P.S. No, I'm not a serving member (yet) but I believe that many of the serving members that are on this board would back my statements...  Good luck, and given your circumstances, I wish you all the best.


----------



## Infanteer

Yup, he's right.

As far as the military is concerned, your a habitual drug abuser.  The fact that you could write "100 times" and not be concerned about it is a give-away.  Take a few years, go to school and get some life experiences that will help to support the image that you are not a loser.


----------



## badapple

Torlyn said:
			
		

> jcchild:
> 
> Alrighty then...   The drug issue has been dealt with MANY times on this board...   (Not trying to be a dick, but do a search for drugs, and you'll see the threads).   Look, there isn't a member serving out there on this board that has said "drug use isn't a big deal".   You have used, and sure, it was in your past, but those decisions DO reflect on your ability to serve.   Even if (as you say) you've only done mushrooms or acid 25 times, that's a LOT.   The hallucinogenics stay in your system forever, and the CF is aware of that.   Do you really think that you'll be put in a position where your decisions could adversely affect the outcome and LIVES of any troops if there's a remote chance of you having a flashback?   You might not see the justice in it, but you know what, the decisions you make even as a teenager effect your life REGARDLESS of whether you persue a military career or not.
> 
> You have to look at it from a potential employer's point of view...   At first, even when you were given ample time to determine the actual amounts of the various narcotics you may (or may not) have taken, you stated that you had taken chemical hallucinogens over 100 times.   Your application is adversely affected by such a statement, and now you want to go back and change it?   That does not bode well for either the CF or any potential employee.     Perhaps you should wait a few years, go to school, volunteer, whatever, and re-evaluate your desire to put yourself in a position that requires such stringent background policies.   I'm not trying to deter you, but you have made some horrible decisions in your past, and you have to realize that you now have to face the consequences of those decisions.   Sorry, but sometimes life truly sucks, and you do have to deal with the hand that God dealt you.
> 
> T
> 
> P.S. No, I'm not a serving member (yet) but I believe that many of the serving members that are on this board would back my statements...   Good luck, and given your circumstances, I wish you all the best.



Still spouting off about things you have no idea about eh torlyn??????

Hmmm, never done drugs, never been in the CF...............this makes you a real athority on the subject


----------



## Torlyn

badapple said:
			
		

> Still spouting off about things you have no idea about eh torlyn??????
> 
> Hmmm, never done drugs, never been in the CF...............this makes you a real athority on the subject



Ah, in case you didn't notice, I was referring as well to general employment.  And, apparently, you didn't notice a serving member backing me up.  (Infanteer)  Had YOU done the search, you would see that everything I said was just a reiteration of what serving members have said on other threads.

But please, question my ability to be the "authority" (watch that spelling) on a subject when you feel it's in question.  Just make sure that YOU have the authority to question me first.  How is it you feel you have the right to question me, or imply that my post was incorrect, when you are still using drugs yourself?  ", i know when i smoke pot, that the next day there is no hangover whatsoever, but after a night out drinking with the boys, i just want to stay in bed."  Hmmm...  As far as I can tell from your history, you completed basic then dropped, because you couldn't get in to your trade because of your eye sight.  How does this make you such a vaunted authority on the CF and how it functions?

And to be PERFECTLY clear, I've never said I'm an authority on anything regarding the CF, nor did I say this in my post.  I post given the experiences that I've had, or to re-iterate what serving members have said previously on this board.  If you aren't going to read the entire post, or are unclear on something, it's probably a better idea to ask for clarification before spouting off nonsense, or questioning someone personally.

T


----------



## jcschild

In response to everyone who responded back from my last message.  I know....I know.  I have been down a long road and past mistakes always come back and bight you.  And my message was not about complaints towards the Army for doing their job.  I completely understaind their position because I have been in position of leadership myself.  My message was just more of a releasing the stress that I was feeling.  I was obviously more upset with myself.  So anyway...there is still a chance for me and I don't let past mistakes ruin my future...I just let them help me grow and learn in life.  Everyone in life will go through struggles which will affect their future and I understand the responsibility their is in the army about putting other people's lives at danger.  I was applying for a NCM position...a desk job...but regardless policies are policies.  But in fact...as opposed to what many have said on this board.  The officer which I spoke to when I called back was very understanding and really cool.  He listened to what I had to say and said it will go through the procedures that it needs too and I accepted that.  I needed to express my confusion and I found that they Army dealt with me in an extremely positive manner.

So...no to me being a LOSER.  All I have to say...is be careful how you judge and prejudice people just becuase they have done things wrong...everyone has...and it's everyone's own opinion as to what is worse than other things.  There is always a scale.  But....prejudices...will also be mistakes that come back and bite you if you are not careful.  What you struggle through in life is not important...its how you make it through that matters and that makes you a stronger person.  So of course there are circumstances for our actions and I accepted them.  There is nothing wrong with expressing our feelings sometimes when we are upset and that is all I was doing.  Also...I have been clean for the past 5 years now...so faulty memory does not make me a dead give away.  I should have taken it more seriously than I did though.  This was a first time experience for me going in this kind of direction...so now I learned.  That is all there is to it.  The army is about team work, patriotism, and courage...so we should always try to understand where others are coming from instead of judging them.  I apologize for not being what some people want me to be but I won't apologize for being myself.  I have learned a lot because of my struggles and personally it has made me a much better person.  And I think that the counsellor I spoke to at the Recruiting Centre has seen that.  In fact this is why I think I have come so far in life as I have.  It's because I have tried to learn from my mistakes...not change the fact that I made some...and doozies..I might add...but the fact that they teach me something.  To those who judge...you might come at a point in your life where you will find yourself in someone else's shoes which you judged in the past and then maybe you will understand better what it means to walk in that person's shoes.

JCSCHILD...I think I have said enough...thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts.


----------



## Bograt

For all those 15 year old guys out there dreaming of flying Hornets. If you toke up, you immediately forfeit your dream. Is it worth it?

Common corespondance in these types of threads is "I did X, it was a mistake, but why should I have to wait to join the CF?"

Let keep the reply simple."You did X. Its against the CF policy. Suck it up."
Take responsibility for what you did, and live with the consequences.


----------



## jcschild

Well that is right....there is NO choice but to live with the circumstances.  I only have one question though...does expressing dissapointment mean we don't deal with the circumstances?  This is regard to any situation in our life...not just to what you were referring too. I think that most times our dissapointments are with ourselves...so we HAVE to suck it up and deal with it.

Thanks.

JCSCHILD

Chow for now.
  still a soldier to be...some day!


----------



## badapple

Torlyn, my issue is that there are still WAYYY to many lies and misconceptions about marijuana which are coming to light both in this country and others, and that far too many CF members (many of which did smoke pot in thier life, but can't speak up about it in a pro-marijuana way) are condeming others for an action they've also taken.  And to have someone not in the CF, whose never (from what I can tell, I may be wrong) smoked pot perpetuate those lies really bothers me.

But, before the Mods jump in, I've had it explained to me that I am not to post actual truths and modern studies done on pot as this is currently against the law, thus against CF Regs so I'm not going there.  

But what happens when marijuana is legalized??  Will the CF re-evaluate the policy when it's proven that alcohol is worse than marijuana??  I'd love to see the many alcoholics that i've worked with in the past during my time in the CF go to AA because that's where many of them belong, but will not happen because alcohol isn't deemed a "poor decision" right now.


----------



## NavyGrunt

badapple said:
			
		

> I'd love to see the many alcoholics that i've worked with in the past during my time in the CF go to AA because that's where many of them belong, but will not happen because alcohol isn't deemed a "poor decision" right now.



Thats not true. Alcoholism is certainly not endorsed by the CF. Ideally nobody should be drinking. IDEALLY. But so alcohol is more harmful.Big deal. We've allowed alcohol to become part of our society to the point where we cant undo it. Same with tobbacco. Same with fast food.This doesnt mean that we just start letting more drugs become part of our society. Just because they might be  "less harmful". Id like to see these people who put so much stock and effort into marijuanna point that energy somewhere constructive. The fact is people form a psych addiction to marijuanna. Thats why they will "march" for it and demand its legalization. 

The CF  has a zero tolerance policy- I say F*** yeah. Keep it that way. Kid smoked pot in high school. Stops. Admits his error- sure welcome board.  Thinks he should be able to "smoke" on the weekends- come back when you grow up. 

Im not crapping on you BadApple- I really do think you should be able to post studies. Id read them.


----------



## Torlyn

badapple said:
			
		

> Torlyn, my issue is that there are still WAYYY to many lies and misconceptions about marijuana which are coming to light both in this country and others, and that far too many CF members (many of which did smoke pot in thier life, but can't speak up about it in a pro-marijuana way) are condeming others for an action they've also taken.  And to have someone not in the CF, whose never (from what I can tell, I may be wrong) smoked pot perpetuate those lies really bothers me.
> 
> But, before the Mods jump in, I've had it explained to me that I am not to post actual truths and modern studies done on pot as this is currently against the law, thus against CF Regs so I'm not going there.
> 
> But what happens when marijuana is legalized??  Will the CF re-evaluate the policy when it's proven that alcohol is worse than marijuana??  I'd love to see the many alcoholics that i've worked with in the past during my time in the CF go to AA because that's where many of them belong, but will not happen because alcohol isn't deemed a "poor decision" right now.



What a load of tripe.  Look, you if you've got studies, post them.  Obviously, you're full of it.  How on EARTH is it illegal to post studies on pot use?  And how do you figure you're the authority when you barely made it through BMQ before being bounced out (sorry, taking a VR)  And honestly, how could you possibly care if it's against CF regs?  You're not in the CF anymore, so it has no bearing on you.  You make it sound like you've been in the army for ages, ("during my time in the CF") when in actuality, you've only served for what, 10 weeks?  Give me a break.  If you want to have a debate about pot use, fine, post something to back your claim, or shut up.  You're not convincing anyone when you say that you've got the proof, but you're "not allowed" to post it.  That's the best part about conspiracy theories, isn't it?  No evidence supports your claim.  

So, put up or shut up.  I have yet to perpetuate ANY lies.  The only one who's done that through misinformation is you.  Perhaps if you stopped smoking pot long enough to allow your brain to clear, you might be able to post a logical, rational argument.  Which, if you do, I'd love to debate.  Otherwise, find another forum to continue your ill-concieved, incorrect and false diatribe.  Please.

As to the legalization of pot, dream on.  Canada has been debating it since the 1970's, and we aren't about to piss off our largest trading partner by legalizing it.  And, if we do, so what?  The CF does not support ANY drug/alcohol abuse, legal or otherwise.  You think they condone overuse of, say, painkillers?  Nope.  So, either post something with some proof, or "articles" (not from High Times, thank you very much, actual journal studies would be good), and we'll go from there.  If you've got nothing, then perhaps you should stop talking.  IMO, of course.

T


----------



## cgyflames01

This issue has officially been beaten to death!!!


----------



## Scratch_043

badapple said:
			
		

> But what happens when marijuana is legalized?? Will the CF re-evaluate the policy when it's proven that alcohol is worse than marijuana??


when you post facts, please also provide PROOF.

also, the CF will not likely change policy, because, although it is also against the law, Marijuana  slows reaction time, co-ordination, and effects your judgment, thus  proving very dangerous when in a situation where those traits are needed.


----------



## Guardian

If there's any lesson to be learned here, it's this - cliche or not:

DON'T DO DRUGS.

For all the young guys out there: is it really worth the cost? Stay away from it - it will have consequences. Bograt is absolutely right - if you take hallucinogenic drugs, you'll never fly in the CF. 

I've seen countless drug cases at my unit - they all end bad. We expect our personnel to follow the drug policy - they make it crystal clear in the interview, so everyone is warned. When you join the CF, you are held to a higher ethical and legal standard than the rest of society, and so drug use - which may not affect you in a civilian job (but often does) WILL have employment ramifications here.

So anyone on this board who may think doing drugs while in the CF may not be or should not be a big deal - badapple, you especially - listen up. The CF is unlikely to EVER allow marijuana use, even if Canada allows it in general. The reason is simple - we carry weapons, use explosives, and drive heavy equipment, all of which do not mix well with pot. Yes, alcohol may be just as bad, but just try showing up to parade drunk someday and see what happens....

A person who does any kind of drugs is KNOWINGLY breaking the law, and so recruiters will be VERY careful when assessing someone with a history of drug use. When a candidate is open and honest about it, then they show character and integrity - and that will often help their case. Everyone makes mistakes, but mistakes still have consequences....

But if, after you join the Forces, you do drugs KNOWING the policy, then you are demonstrating a serious lack of judgment and character flaw. In my mind, if you don't care enough for the laws of this country and the discipline of this organization to follow this very simple rule, then you have no place here. I'm not inclined to allow you to put the lives of my troops at risk because of your stupidity. 

Basically, if you join the CF, you give a lot of things up (the ability to live in one place, the right to run for political office, restrictions on free speech and expression, the whole "unlimited liability" thing....). Drugs are definitely one of those things. If you're not mature enough to recognize this fact and the reason for it, you have no business being in the CF. Period.


----------



## cool guy

bump


----------



## combat_medic

Boy has this horse been flogged to death.

Bottom line - you do drugs, you risk not being able to get into the CF. Don't like it? Don't do drugs.

Thread locked.


----------



## TerrellMott

I used to be a drug addict when i was a kid and I've done alot of drugs in my lifetime and I was just wondering how that would affect me when it comes to signing up, I don't mind a little discrimination but I wouldn't want to be completely denied because of this.

I've been clean for three years this December so I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the regulations regarding this.


----------



## McG

Check the FAQ.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103982.html#msg103982


----------



## The_Stu

I read the FAQ but need some clarification.

I last smoked marijuana in early December, the 12th I believe. I plan on going in and getting my forms to fill out when I get back to school, which will be around the 4th or 5th of January. Now from what I heard in the drug test FAQ, the test will determine use or not up to a month after the fact, so asuming my medical doesnt get rushed (even if it was I could reschedule) I should be fine for testing negative.

So what im concerned about is the honesty policy about drug use in the interview. I have no problem being honest about my use, im just concerned about how much this will affect my application. Will they tell me to come back in a couple months when ive proven I can stay clean, or do they trust you until you mess up and then your out?


----------



## aesop081

Honestly, i have seen both cases happen........


----------



## Mischiefz

dont quote me on this but I think you have to be clean for a minimum of 6 months before they'll process your app


----------



## chrisf

Best policy is always honesty, worst case scenario, they tell you to come back later. You lie, that proves you're untrustworthy, and as such, not the sort of individual any of us wants in the forces.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

The_Stu said:
			
		

> I read the FAQ but need some clarification.



Read 'em again, all your answers are there. For sake of clarity, "Don't lie & THC from marijuana can stay in your fat cells for up to six months". We're not going through all this again.


----------



## *Grunt

Alot of people try or use "pot" all they care about is that you dont use anymore and have decided to stop for legitament reasons. Best thing to do is to tell the truth..thats what they're looking for..


----------



## *Grunt

hahahaha I'm sorry all I didnt realize how old this topic was... :


----------



## Tpr.Orange

6 months for pot ..
3 years for hallucinigines (pardon my spelling)

3 years before i decided to sign up, I took a trip to amsterdam with some buddies. When i filled out list of items i had taken the time frame was all in a week, the recruiter knew just by looking at the list where i had been in that one week. Kinda funny well maybe just to me


----------



## Fishbone Jones

The question has been answered, here and, in many other threads. No need to continue it.


----------



## Michael OLeary

In case you haven't found the Recruiting FAQ yet, here's the Drug Use section:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103982.html#msg103982


----------



## thatoldfool

Good evening all,

On Thursday, January 6th, I wrote my aptitude test to begin the process to become an officer in the reserve. After the test, I filled out the drug questionaire to the best of my memory--but the thing is, even thought i hadn't done anything for at least 2 years, the "last time" isn't as memorable as the first time...so I wrote dates that I thought were close to when I must have smoked the last time, etc.

During my interview, the Captain asked me when the last time I smoked marijuana was, and in a brief mental slip, I said I wasn't sure, but about 3 to 4 years ago...when I had written 2 years ago on my form. He picked up on this at once, and grilled me for a while, implying that I was trying to trick him.

Finally, he had me read a piece of paper stating that members of the forces have to be free of mind altering substances, and then told me I could re-apply in 9 months.

For the record, I told him I did shrooms once, in 2002. This didn't seem to be a problem, and after asking if i had ever had a flashback, he glossed over this.

My point is: to those of you applying, keep your facts straight! I was lucky in that it's only a 9 month delay, but I've heard of worse! Don't lie, just be consistent during your interview.

Now, I hope I can remember what dates i put, specifically, when my next interview comes around...!


----------



## GundamFreak

Hi, I really don't know which section this thread should go i'm very new to this and to this point I don't know if I have posted it in the right forum but I was wondering during the the CF recruiting process do the medical staff or any at all look into your past hospital entries? Since I have had surgury a while back but I don't know if it wilil affect my process of enrollent or for this point if the CF place a great Importance in searching for this information over your past Background History which (CSIS) performs. I have been dreaming about this for years and it has up this point been firm that I want to choose this a career because this has been something I have wanted to do for a while now and seriously I hate being mocked about by people around me that do not understand about the importance I have placed this in my life. Please if any1 can help about this issue please do speak up.. It has been on my mind ... I really don't know if they do look into your hospital records with or without your consent. THANKS GUYS!


----------



## Inch

I'm not sure if they do a medical check on you, it's been a while since I was in a recruiting centre, but in any case, if they ask you, you have to tell them the truth. You'll fill out a medical questionnaire asking you if you have ever had any number of afflictions from jaundice to concussions and everything in between. If you've had a knee reconstructed and it gets destroyed during basic, you may not get jack from the military since it was a pre-existing injury, however, if you don't tell them about it then you can bet your arse they won't give you a thing and could possibly charge you for lying on your application.

Hope that helps

Cheers


----------



## kincanucks

Cincinnatus said:
			
		

> Good evening all,
> 
> On Thursday, January 6th, I wrote my aptitude test to begin the process to become an officer in the reserve. After the test, I filled out the drug questionaire to the best of my memory--but the thing is, even thought i hadn't done anything for at least 2 years, the "last time" isn't as memorable as the first time...so I wrote dates that I thought were close to when I must have smoked the last time, etc.
> 
> During my interview, the Captain asked me when the last time I smoked marijuana was, and in a brief mental slip, I said I wasn't sure, but about 3 to 4 years ago...when I had written 2 years ago on my form. He picked up on this at once, and grilled me for a while, implying that I was trying to trick him.
> 
> Finally, he had me read a piece of paper stating that members of the forces have to be free of mind altering substances, and then told me I could re-apply in 9 months.
> 
> For the record, I told him I did shrooms once, in 2002. This didn't seem to be a problem, and after asking if i had ever had a flashback, he glossed over this.
> 
> My point is: to those of you applying, keep your facts straight! I was lucky in that it's only a 9 month delay, but I've heard of worse! Don't lie, just be consistent during your interview.
> 
> Now, I hope I can remember what dates i put, specifically, when my next interview comes around...!




Excellent advice.   Make sure that your are confident in the dates of when you used a substance.   I always like to ask an applicant several times if they are comfortable with the dates of use that they have indicated and will even have them initial the form to indicate so.   If you are not sure of what you reported on the drug sheet the last time you were in then ask to see it.   What is important is that you did not engage in drug use during the waiting period and if you did that you report it.


----------



## GundamFreak

Well I am just worried about the removal of my kidney stones but I have removed them a month before the medical examination I do not know if they will check the medical records or if i tell them will it delay my entry... I havee dreamed about this and I have been delayed once already. I have told them I have used marjuana in the past and confronted the recruiter and was told to wait 6 months . Since then I have not touched a speck of that or anything else. I am very serious about this and have read the posts of drug use but that was when I was in high school and i'm nearing the compleation of my degree now in university. So i guess its been a while. but I am just worred caz i don't want to wait any longer for delays in applications it is a drain on the mind thinking aobut it everyday..  :-[


----------



## J.F.

I know that if I was doing the interview, I would appreciate honesty over anything else.  Also I noticed that the interviewers were pretty skilled individuals and would be able to tell if you were really trying to trick them.


----------



## skinz

hey whats up fellas,

Well i am pretty confident on my dates that i used drugs in the past. But i pray to god that it doesn't effect me in joining the CF infantry, since i believe this  is the job that i was ment to do.  When it comes time for my interview i will definitely not lie about anything.  For I would greatly appreciate some info on my situation.  I will be 20 yrs old in a month.  I have never abused drugs, i have just tried them.  For example i did shrooms twice in my life back in gr 10, so i would be about the age of 15-16. i tried 1 harder drug once when i was gr 12 17yrs old.  i smoked weed maybe 10 times in my life, the last time being on my 18th birthday.  

I feel like an idiot now that i have tried that garbage.  I was young and dumb, and those highschool years (party years) i wish that I was smarter back then  because now i realized that my past might now effect the rest of my life.  There is nothing in this world that i want to do more then pursue a great career in the CF.  I will be applying on my 21st birth day.  I am giving my self a year to be well in shape, and i need to pay off some debt because i bought some expensive toys (truck, car, street bike etc.)   

Thank you in advance.


----------



## Sharpey

I think it's pretty safe to say that any illegal substance abuse will slow down a recruiting process.


----------



## camochick

When I was going to join(which i later decided wasnt what i really wanted to do) I told the truth about my drug usage and they didnt really care. I used to smoke pot back in highschool and as long as i didnt do it now they told me they didnt really care.


----------



## Sharpey

I think if you are clean for two years they sweep it under the carpet. Wouldn't know, I was never a druggy.


----------



## Love793

Certain drugs have certain time frames for restrictions.  Pot is generally 1 yr, LSD/Shrooms etc is 3 a yr restrictions and WILL prevent any aircrew/diver jobs (Flashbacks in a $20 Million dollar Hornet are not good for the aircraft).  My advice, Be honest, if your applying, QUIT Using.


----------



## Sharpey

Good advise Love793, you must be a Recruiter or something


----------



## patrick666

I applied a little over 2 years ago and was denied under the same circumstance. I had admitted to using mushrooms 2 years prior to my application and was promptly sent home and told I could reapply 1.5 years later. It's been a few years but I am just getting started with the reapplying process and all I can say is be patient. Train, train, train. You have more time, so to end in a positive note, use it to your advantage. 

I can't friggin' wait!

Cheers, 

Patrick


----------



## infamous_p

yea weed they dont care about .. last time i smoked weed was like 6 months ago and they didnt care about that, as long as im not doing it now

coke they didnt seem to mind either.... once again, as long as i was clean now

i can see why they give people a hard time about the hallucinogens like LSD and mushrooms though....

i heard that if you've ever done PCP .. your application will be terminated immediately and you wont ever be able to reapply .. that would really suck


----------



## Stefan Moxness

when I did my CFAT I also stated that I had done pot maybe 10 times in my life and the last time i had smoked was in September (CFAT was in november).  The captain told me that the policy for pot was 6 months clean, he told me to come back in march and there wouldn't be a problem.  So as far as I know that's the policy for pot at least.  I'm just wondering, since I wrote my CFAT (and passed) will I have to write it again (and will I have to fill out the drug form that was given at the same time), not that it really matters, just wondering what the process is.  I was also wondering, (I should've probably asked the captain at the time but I was kind of disappointed and not really in the thinking mood) what exactly do I do to continue with the process, do i simply go into the CFRC and say that'd i'd like to make an appointment for my PT (assuming i don't need to do CFAT again) test, or should I explain the previous situation and go from there? Thanks for your help guys (and gals).


----------



## infamous_p

couldnt help ya there ... i recently finished my recruiting process so i dont know about what happens when you need to reapply..


----------



## skinz

well it will be 2 years this coming march 1st since i last smoked pot, 4 years for shrooms and 3 years since i tried coke..  so i hope i will be clean enough since i havn't touched a drug in 2 years, and i've never been a druggie or abused any drugs, i've only tried a few things.  but still i won't be applying until march 1 2006.  do you guys think i'll be good to go with out any issues?  I know i will pass a drug test because i have been tested at work since i work in the oil field at the moment.  

cheers,

Jared


----------



## patrick666

Do yourselves a favour and stay clean. Peer pressure can be difficult at times but hold your ground and keep your goals clear in your mind. I think being denied from military service, no matter how justified they were, was one of my biggest disappointments.


----------



## Dogboy

ya Acid ands hard sh*t like PCP are not good for eneyone 
i have a frend who used Acid and he still has flash backs evrey once in a wile.
me i just say no to eney hard stuff ( and im happy for it) and i have not used pot for like 5+years


----------



## reality_therapy

I've reviewed a lot of the posts re the PT and the aptitude test and they were all helpful.

I now have to have my medical and final interview (going in as a DEO) so can anyone tell me exactly what happens during the medical exam? I don't have any concerns personally but am just curious as what to expect.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks.


----------



## George Wallace

Well there is this one test, where you have to turn your head to the side and cough......


----------



## camochick

The medical is nothing. They make you pee in a bottle, cough a few times and then ask you a bunch of questions. The guy giving me mine was like 300 pds and probably smoked a pack a day hehe.  >


----------



## PeterLT

Yes...and when you have to drop your pants and bend over try to remember that it's not personal.....

 :


----------



## old medic

There are some very specific tests and questions they are going to ask you.
The are going to check you vision, colour vision, hearing, and then do some lab work etc
to check you out in three other categories called Geographic, Occupational and Air.
If you want to know more about the specific standards, and the standards for each job in the CF, 
start here:

medical standards	http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/policies/med_standards/engraph/cfp154_chap2_e.asp

If you want to look at other threads on recruit medicals, here is a list.  
Keep in mind they do not all contain good advice.

back problem					http://army.ca/forums/threads/13548.0
chest cold					http://army.ca/forums/threads/186.0.html
colour blindness					http://army.ca/forums/threads/469.0.html
colour blind CV3 & MOCs			http://army.ca/forums/threads/17025.0
Holding back info on your medical test		http://army.ca/forums/threads/13190.0
need a brace !!!					http://army.ca/forums/threads/331.0.html
need help on the medical (eyes)			http://army.ca/forums/threads/496.0.html
needles						http://army.ca/forums/threads/17989.0.html
medical documents				http://army.ca/forums/threads/13529.0
medical failure					http://army.ca/forums/threads/13710.0
medical question (drugs)				http://army.ca/forums/threads/13197.0
medical question (hernia)			http://army.ca/forums/threads/438.0.html
medical restriction				http://army.ca/forums/threads/12960.0
medical test					http://army.ca/forums/threads/18298.0.html
medical review board				http://army.ca/forums/threads/13453.0
what's the medical test				http://army.ca/forums/threads/13229.0
Waiting Period for Health Coverage?		http://army.ca/forums/threads/18185.0.html
Worried about medical (depression)		http://army.ca/forums/threads/17848.0.html


----------



## reality_therapy

LMAO Camochick and Peter!!!

Thanks Old Medic...had a look at the site and nothing I see there to worry about.

All the replies are appreciated. I'll see how it goes!

Cheers,

Reality  :dontpanic:


----------



## Ghost

Drink lots of water before you go so you can go when you get there


----------



## Korus

> Yes...and when you have to drop your pants and bend over try to remember that it's not personal....



No no no.. That doesn't happen at the Medical at all.. It happens on Basic.  ;D


Cheers;

Roger


----------



## Donut

Remember, there's nothing at all to worry about until you feel BOTH hands on your shoulder.   ;D


----------



## Joe Blow

Finally went for the CFAT last week (It's not so bad) but was taken a bit by surprise when I was asked to fill out a questionnaire indicating what drugs I have done, when and how often.  I'll filled it out to the best of my ability at the time, however I am concerned about one answer in particular.

For one of the indicated drugs I answered that I had only consumed it once.  When I came home and went over it with my wife (whom I have know since we were quite young) she paused and effectively said; "what about this time ...and that time ...and the other time."  I know It's a silly mistake to make, but bit of a pop quiz and I felt a bit rushed as I was the last one in the room to complete it.  Anyway, needless to say my hand met my forehead pretty quickly.

I have considered just writing a note and including it in my file, explaining the error and providing a correction.  However given that the consequences of misrepresenting yourself on this form can be so dramatic (ie. release) I would be interested in gaining some feedback.  

How might you handle this situation and what might you recommend. I invite replies from everyone of course but would be especially interested in hearing from those in the recruiting field.

Regards,
Joe


----------



## kincanucks

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Finally went for the CFAT last week (It's not so bad) but was taken a bit by surprise when I was asked to fill out a questionnaire indicating what drugs I have done, when and how often.   I'll filled it out to the best of my ability at the time, however I am concerned about one answer in particular.
> 
> For one of the indicated drugs I answered that I had only consumed it once.   When I came home and went over it with my wife (whom I have know since we were quite young) she paused and effectively said; "what about this time ...and that time ...and the other time."   I know It's a silly mistake to make, but bit of a pop quiz and I felt a bit rushed as I was the last one in the room to complete it.   Anyway, needless to say my hand met my forehead pretty quickly.
> 
> I have considered just writing a note and including it in my file, explaining the error and providing a correction.   However given that the consequences of misrepresenting yourself on this form can be so dramatic (ie. release) I would be interested in gaining some feedback.
> 
> How might you handle this situation and what might you recommend. I invite replies from everyone of course but would be especially interested in hearing from those in the recruiting field.
> 
> Regards,
> Joe



I am assuming that you have not had an interview yet?  If so it is not too late to provide more information about prior drug use.  The interviewer will go over the questionnaire with you again during the interview.  Make sure you provide the additional information.


----------



## Joe Blow

Thank-you for your reply kincanucks.  I was a bit worried that I might have sabotaged myself there.  I will certainly provide more complete information in my interview (...and perhaps write that note for good measure).

Can you tell me if the discrepancy between the information provided in my questionnaire and my interview will result in any delay in processing my file, or a rating of some kind that might affect my merit listing?

Thanks!


----------



## kincanucks

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Thank-you for your reply kincanucks.   I was a bit worried that I might have sabotaged myself there.   I will certainly provide more complete information in my interview (...and perhaps write that note for good measure).
> 
> Can you tell me if the discrepancy between the information provided in my questionnaire and my interview will result in any delay in processing my file, or a rating of some kind that might affect my merit listing?
> 
> Thanks!



Sorry can't answer that on this forum.  Just be honest.  Cheers.


----------



## mjr payne

Today i received a letter from cfb Borden about my medical, it stated that since i had a prolonged use of drugs i am not eligible for employment in a reg force or reserve. And then it goes on to say that If i do not suffer from any complications as a result of street drugs and if treatment is not indicated i may be reconsidered. And this has to be done by a drug addiction specialist and my family physician.

This is all fine and dandy but the part that bothers me is that it says "Prior to obtaining this report, I must be assured that you have discussed your drug history with the military career counsellor at the Recruiting Center.  It is entirely possible that you violate the Canadian Forces Drug policy"

What bothers me about this is that obviously i told the medical officer about my previous drug use so why do they think i would hide it form any other Recruiting personell and why doesn't the medical officer in Borden call  the recruiting office and find out.

Now i will tell u my drug history from about when i was 15-18 i used marijuana about 3 times a week or so and that is probably more than what i used in a week most of the time but someties i could have been  a little more than that also the last time i used drugs was about 3 years and 3 months ago. Now i am not condoning marijuana use or any drug use for that matter i regret using drugs all the time, and i can honestly say that i will never use any illegal drug ever again in my life.  

I guess they are just worried about deployment were there is not extensive health care but i have never had any health problems related to drug use i have ran 2.4 in 10.15 i have hiked 20km with a heavy back pack i weight lift on a regular basis and i have held a physically demanding jib for 1 year and 6 months. 

Well i am done venting so if anyone can share any similar experience or shed a little light on the subject it would be much appreciated, Thank You in advance


----------



## kincanucks

Sent you a PM.

Sent it again if it is a duplicate my apologies.


----------



## Joe Blow

Hi There - 



> from about when i was 15-18 i used marijuana about 3 times a week or so





> also the last time i used drugs was about 3 years and 3 months ag


If you don't mind me asking how old are you now?

Try to think of an application process as courting.  They are getting to know you.  You are getting to know them.  What I mean is, it doesn't matter whether or not their position is defensible. (Before the onslaught begins please let me reiterate that it doesn't matter to the point at hand even if the CF's position is defensible.)  What's important is that this is their position.  The CF is going to be more than what ever your desired job is.  Every bureaucracy/institution has a culture.  That note was doing more than telling you're not welcome, or that you have to jump though hoops X,Y and Z.  It was telling you a bit about the institution that sent it.  Is this an institutional culture that you will be happy in?

I wonder about the culture of the CF sometimes.  I do not mean to suggest that it might be a 'negative' culture, or one that is wrong headed in some fashion, only that it might be a culture that is a bit removed from contemporary urban Canada.  For myself, I have come to be at peace with the fact that I may end up focusing my (formerly ..as in years ago) drug addled brain toward completing my Masters degree rather than burden the CF with it.    

In any case, if it doesn't work out in the end, a door closed only means a question answered.  

Best of luck!


----------



## Trinity

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Try to think of an application process as courting.



Funniest thing I have read on ARMY.CA ever!

And its so true....  

DAMN


----------



## BDG.CalgHighrs

Trinity said:
			
		

> Funniest thing I have read on ARMY.CA ever!
> 
> And its so true....
> 
> darn


Courting, eh? No wonder it took me so long to get in...


----------



## mjr payne

well my medical file finally came back too the recruiting office and they said that it was a standard issue letter for someone with my previous drug use, and that i do not violate any cf drug policy but i still have to see a specialist and my physician which sux because now my file will be on hold until i complete that so hopefully i can get it all done asap .......2 years and counting but i know it will be worth the wait in the end!


----------



## George

Does anyone know if they can detect if you have smoked pot in the last 3 yrs...Because I tried it a couple of times in high school and i havn't done it since! and i was wondering if they can still detect it....and if you should tell them that you have done it. then opose to lieing to them!

Please Respond...


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Be honest with them or suffer the consequences. try doing a search next time.


----------



## George

Honestly! How can they tell if your lieing about taking drugs if its not detected in the urine???


----------



## infamous_p

Past medical records, criminal charges, hospital visits, blood tests you had years ago, any rehab visits you may have had, urine tests from years ago....

You name it....

I'd simply say to not underestimate the system, you really never know.


----------



## George

welll, never had and medicals done before nore have i had any rehab...im not a drugie ive been up pot for 3 months now and iand i have my CFAT and Interview on the 31st of may and then my med and phys about 2 weeks later so i would have been free and clear of pot for about 4 months...and i tired shrooms once and E once as well...


----------



## George

sorry about the grammer! i have not done smoked pot for 3 months


----------



## vangemeren

Read these, you're not the first one.......

http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103982.html#msg103982


----------



## spenco

George said:
			
		

> welll, never had and medicals done before nore have i had any rehab...im not a drugie ive been up pot for 3 months now and iand i have my CFAT and Interview on the 31st of may and then my med and phys about 2 weeks later so i would have been free and clear of pot for about 4 months...and i tired shrooms once and E once as well...




Minimum acceptable time for pot is 6 months since last consumption.   Shrooms and E they take much more seriously (as they should) the minimum time since last consumption is 3 years.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Locked,
Search the recruiting forums and you will find just about everything possible on this subject discussed.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Sorry Bruce but I have to add this.

Folks *we will not help you cheat the system *  and if you ask how you can beat the system you will be warned and possibly banned!


----------



## Tbird

What kind of tests are run in the medical? The ones I know of are blood pressure and vision. I'm sure that's not it. Just curious  ;D


----------



## Pieman

They make you pee in a cup and check your hearing.

You have to strip to your underwear, and examine you head to toe. The Dr. checked my joints by moving my legs and arms in full range of motion. Made me touch my toes, walk around (making sure I had good posture, no back problems etc.) Checked my reflexes, eyes, nose, ears. etc. etc.

They want to be sure you are in good health, and that nothing is going to cause you or them problems in the future. 

Don't sweat it, it is not any different than going to your family doctor and getting a physical.


----------



## George Wallace

Height and weight.   You fill out a questionaire on your health and family history; ie. if cancer or high blood pressure run in you family, if you are currently on medication, do you have any allergies, are you a smoker, you know......those types of questions.   You will also do a audio test to test your hearing and a basic eye test (cover one eye and read the chart).   You may have to go for a blood and/or urine test if they question some of the results of these tests and questions.   It is usually a very quick and painless test.   At various times in your career you will have chest x-rays done.   You will have a needle book and be kept up to date with all the innoculations you require.   You are usually in very good hands.


----------



## Tbird

Thanks    I figured it would be something along those lines. I have mine on Monday, as far as i know I'm in good health. I hope I can get my fitness test soon. I was told to call them before I leave the recruiting center, that a possibility of having it the same day is there. That'd be nice. That's all I have left to do.


----------



## Dave Mount

It's funny how they are.   I did mine on Monday.   It's the first physical I have had done with all my clothes on.   
They were going to turn me down because I ticked off non-deployable.   The Dr. said if I wasn't deployable I wasn't employable.   I spent five minutes explaining my role as a CIC, and my full time career with Toronto Fire Services (25 years).    Then went through the whole thing again with the personal weapon question, not trained.


----------



## SeanPaul_031

They do a prostate check on the men, so have thanks youre female

INACCURATE INFORMATION - INFANTEER


----------



## Infanteer

SeanPaul_031 said:
			
		

> They do a prostate check on the men, so have thanks youre female



Really?  I've had four full medicals (2 for career purposes, 2 for DAG/AAG for deployment) and I've never got a prostate check (finger up the bum) - are you sure about that or are you just talking through your hat again?


----------



## Copper_Sunrise

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Really?   I've had four full medicals (2 for career purposes, 2 for DAG/AAG for deployment) and I've never got a prostate check (finger up the bum) - are you sure about that or are you just talking through your hat again?



He most definately is. I think the doctor just liked him  . 

The prostate thing is only for those over a certain age, it is *not* part of the medical test you get done during the recruiting process.


----------



## old medic

diagnosis  - talking out his bum.

No prostate exam.


----------



## Infanteer

Copper_ said:
			
		

> The prostate thing is only for those over a certain age, it is *not* part of the medical test you get done during the recruiting process.



That's what I thought - I remember bugging the Platoon Warrant about getting it during the AAG - good way to earn yourself some extra duties....

Anyways, Mr SeanPaul031, you are now giving out false information on the recruiting forum, which is in direct violation of the following conduct guidelines:



			
				Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> [*]You will not post any material which is *knowingly false*.





			
				Mike Bobbitt said:
			
		

> So our request is this: Please qualify unconfirmed information posted here.
> 
> That is, if you didn't witness it first hand or read it in the CFAO's, state that it's an opinion, rumour or best guess. We won't think any less of you for not "knowing" the information. In fact, we'll all appreciate the honesty, and it'll likely save readers heartache later on, when they find out (the hard way) that it wasn't exactly bang on. If you *do* know the source, please reference it with a link or include the related information in your post. If the source information is large or takes the discussion off topic you may want to consider making use of a footnote1 to provide references and sources that back up your claims.
> 
> There are lots of discussions which take place on this forum in which either none or all of us are "experts" in some way (politics, rifles, etc).   It's great that we can all discuss the daily news and have civil debate on contentious matters, however these boards are no different than the real world, and if you provide information to back up your claim, you better be willing to give us some proof.   If you base your opinions off of hearsay and rumor, be prepared to be called to task when you use up bandwidth on this board to tell us about it.



You're moving onto the ramp pretty quickly here.   I'd suggest you read Mr Bobbitt's Policy Guidelines carefully and try out the "Gray Man" role for a while.


----------



## RossF

Yea..lol, my boxers didn't come off for my medical. Thankyfully.


----------



## Tbird

Prostate exams..........well all i know about that is if I was a man i'd get checked for that at some point in my life...my grandfather died of prostate cancer...he had the exam to late. So I don't think it's very funny personally.


----------



## NavComm

I did not have to get undressed for my medical. I did have to have a few tests done by my regular doctor because of my age. I was given 30 days to get those results in to the med dept. The tests were some blood work (make sure you're not diabetic) and a cardio gram. Both results were fine according to my doctor and done within 10 days.


----------



## kas

I just did my medical this week and I'd recommend taking PT gear with you if you're a girl. Sounds like it's standard practice for the guys to strip down to their underwear, but I'm guessing it's not for girls since the med techs asked me to change into shorts and a T-shirt. Either way, won't hurt to be prepared.

Other than that, the first couple responses were spot on what I experienced. You'll also be filling out a long checklist of medical conditions and expect a ton of questions. Nothing most people wouldn't be able to answer off hand except perhaps family medical history as far back as the grandparents.


----------



## RossF

Yea.. there are quite a few questions I guess..it helps if you have a relatively clean family history of health I guess, that way you don't have to remember as much..I found it was easier that way anyways, but really that's out of your hands.


----------



## George Wallace

RossF said:
			
		

> Yea..lol, my boxers didn't come off for my medical. Thankyfully.



You mean ......you didn't have to....um......."turn your head to the side and cough!"   ?      ;D


----------



## kincanucks

If you are a female going for a recruitment medical don't wear a thong or go without a bra.   There have been too many times where I have had to calm down my male medical techs. ;D

Note:  And it is not very professional.


----------



## MysticLies

hey Did you guys do your medical at the recruiting centers? because during my intervue the person just gave me a date, and forgot to tell me where? I am guessing its at the recruitment center right?


----------



## Gunner98

Rectal exams used to be done routinely as part of the over 40 medical.   Rectal/prostate exams are done only when other symptoms indicate the need.  Rectal exams only can give a lot of false positive information.  The prostate specific antigen (PSA) test is a blood test used to help in the early detection of prostate cancer. PSA, an ingredient of semen, is made by the prostate. Some PSA naturally leaks from the prostate into the bloodstream. The PSA test measures the amount of PSA in the blood. As a man ages, more PSA leaksinto the blood. Problems with the prostateâ â€such as prostatitis (prostate infection), BPH (benign prostatic enlargement), or cancerâ â€may cause extra PSA to enter the blood. A digital rectal exam or prostate biopsy can also raise PSA levels. If a PSA test shows higher than normal blood levels of PSA, other tests are necessary to help determine the cause of the increase.


----------



## kas

MysticLies said:
			
		

> hey Did you guys do your medical at the recruiting centers? because during my intervue the person just gave me a date, and forgot to tell me where? I am guessing its at the recruitment center right?



I had my CFAT, medical and interview all in the recruitment center, but I have no idea if that's standard practice for all CFRCs. Your best bet would probably be to call yours and confirm the location for your medical.


----------



## RossF

George Wallace said:
			
		

> You mean ......you didn't have to....um......."turn your head to the side and cough!"   ?      ;D



Nope..


----------



## P-Free

Had my medical done at the recruiting center as well.


----------



## Tbird

hello all,
Ok had my medical this morning. Everything is good. Only one possible hang up regarding speed of processing. I said I got a tension headache every 2 months or so,I take an advil and it goes away. The medic said it should be fine but if i get someone particularly picky in Borden they'll ask that i get a form signed by a physician. What do you think the chances are of this happening? Other then that I'm in absolute perfect health with all the test results. My fitness test is scheduled for May 24th. They do know I'm trying to make it in for BMQ May 30th. The medic put a rush on my file. Yes I know cutting it close. But thankfully everyone is really trying to get me in on time. I should have no issues with the fitness test. Just curious on the approval of my med test from Borden. Blood pressure, vision and hearing tests were awesome. The medic said I was really strong and in really good health  ;D  Fingers crossed all moves swiftly.


----------



## MysticLies

thats good to hear. Mine is on the May 25...I just hope I make it in time...because the due date for BMQ is June 10 or something like that.

yesterday my recruiter called my house, and told my mom that I had to get a letter or something from my doctor. I was at work, so I couldn't answer the phone, does any one know what I would need from a doctor before I do my medical.


----------



## Tbird

The best bet would be to call the recruiting center and ask that question. I was only told about possible forms to get signed once my actual medical was done. If I had to they will call and let me know. The medic gave me that headache form just in case Borden does want that signature.


----------



## MysticLies

yea I will have to call them again most likely just in case. they gave me a forum during my interview but I didn't know if it was for my medical or for my doctor. lol

are you going to BMQ too? because I am going to BMQ in Borden but my due date for applying is June 10th while yours is May 30th


----------



## RossF

Yes, call the recruiting center, go in if possible. I had to get a couple letters for my medical. My medic I dealt with gave me the forms for my doctors to fill out. Still waiting for the med file to come back from Borden though, reminds me, gotta go call CFRC..


----------



## BDTyre

kincanucks said:
			
		

> If you are a female going for a recruitment medical don't wear a thong or go without a bra.  There have been too many times where I have had to calm down my male medical techs. ;D
> 
> Note:  And it is not very professional.



That's hilarious.  Think some people do it on purpose?


----------



## kincanucks

BDTyre said:
			
		

> That's hilarious.   Think some people do it on purpose?



Sometimes I wonder about that but I hear it gets really scary when the male applicants start doing it.


----------



## Island Ryhno

Guess I'll have to leave my cadpat g strings home that day.  8)


----------



## Fry

almost 2 years ago, when I first moved out of the house and into an apartment for university, there was a party one night. I had many to drink, and believe that I had half a puff of a thing of marijuana. I felt so terrible after that, honestly. I didn't like it either, it was a spur of the moment kind of thing. Since then I have turned it down dozens of times, and that was the only time that my body was exposed to marijuana smoke. Apart from very minor alcohol consumption, do any of you think it will pose a problem at all? 

I am unsure of the guidelines they go by, and am only looking for opinions unless one of you is a recruiter. I felt like sh*t the next morning and was really disgraced with myself. I had many beers that night too, but that isn't an excuse for what happened. 

Just looking for someone to comment with an experience relevant to this prehaps?

No other drugs have come in contact with me before or after that incident.


----------



## MikeM

Just stay away from them, looks like you're doing a good job at it, keep it that way.

The CF has a ZERO tolerance policy on substance abuse. I am assuming you're looking into joining the CF, with that being said, stay clean, be honest about your past when you have your interview, and you will be fine.


----------



## Fry

I hope that you guys are right. Oh, I've been offered drugs many times before and since, and have turned them down. I didn't even like what I "experimented" with. I don't think half a puff(found it gagged my lungs, lol) would make the CF label me as a pot-head. I know the longterm effects of drugs and drug abuse, I have a paranoid-skitzophrenic drug-addict uncle who is always causing trouble, and rides the ambulance on almost a daily basis. 

The key thing here is half a puff, was under the influence of alcohol, turned it down before and after that, haven't did anything besides that one half puff, I realize that I was a dumb@ss, and I plan to be fully honest with the recruiter(s). I'm just hoping they don't look at this and say "NO way buddy".


----------



## kincanucks

Fry said:
			
		

> almost 2 years ago, when I first moved out of the house and into an apartment for university, there was a party one night. I had many to drink, and believe that I had half a puff of a thing of marijuana. I felt so terrible after that, honestly. I didn't like it either, it was a spur of the moment kind of thing. Since then I have turned it down dozens of times, and that was the only time that my body was exposed to marijuana smoke. Apart from very minor alcohol consumption, do any of you think it will pose a problem at all?
> 
> I am unsure of the guidelines they go by, and am only looking for opinions unless one of you is a recruiter. I felt like **** the next morning and was really disgraced with myself. I had many beers that night too, but that isn't an excuse for what happened.
> 
> Just looking for someone to comment with an experience relevant to this prehaps?
> 
> No other drugs have come in contact with me before or after that incident.



You must immediately check yourself into rehab and stay there for at least 6 months.   Are you freaking serious?   Please worry more about your common sense than about the time you _accidentally _ smoke some pot two years ago.

Seriously people is there really no common dog out there anymore?   Do you think we are the ultra secret drug people and we have technology that can tell you smoked some pot two years ago?   I am sorry but shake your freaking head and move along.

I hereby propose that recruiting no longer screen for drugs but for common sense instead.

Good luck with your recruiting process.

PS: Of course I apologize to anyone who I may have offended with the harshness contain in the above post and if you now require a hug and a cup of tea I will provide such.


----------



## aesop081

Fry said:
			
		

> almost 2 years ago, when I first moved out of the house and into an apartment for university, there was a party one night. I had many to drink, and believe that I had half a puff of a thing of marijuana. I felt so terrible after that, honestly. I didn't like it either, it was a spur of the moment kind of thing. Since then I have turned it down dozens of times, and that was the only time that my body was exposed to marijuana smoke. Apart from very minor alcohol consumption, do any of you think it will pose a problem at all?
> 
> I am unsure of the guidelines they go by, and am only looking for opinions unless one of you is a recruiter. I felt like sh*t the next morning and was really disgraced with myself. I had many beers that night too, but that isn't an excuse for what happened.
> 
> Just looking for someone to comment with an experience relevant to this prehaps?
> 
> No other drugs have come in contact with me before or after that incident.



OMG...stop !!  You are killing me  ;D You have abused alcohol ?  What kind of soldier drinks to excess ?  And you did a half-puff of grass.......You must immediately give up any hopes of being in the military........... :

No one in the military drinks...you could get killed by doing that !!!  hahaha

Cup of tea ?


----------



## NavComm

Well said, kincanucks!

If a person can't figure out that taking a toke *once* - way back when the Spice Girls were still performing -  isn't going to show up on a blood or urine sample now, then how will they be able to figure out what to do in a serious situation? What if the commanding officer is hurt and you have to think for yourself? What if some guy in your barracks is selling crack? What if the post office is closed and you have a letter to mail? If 7 Eleven is open 24/7 then why do they put locks on the door?

Whoever said there are no stupid questions was dead wrong.


----------



## Fry

I was unsure on the military's stance on things like these, some places have a ZERO tolerance for things like that.


----------



## NavComm

Gonz0 said:
			
		

> I have a small dellima conscerning the drug test. I am expesed to second hand marijuana smoke once in a while due to my dumb @$$ roomate having no respect for what i am trying to do. Im just wondering if i should bother enroling or if i should go get a drug test done at a doctors office first?  Any advise is appreciated thank you



There is a handy little search feature on this site you can use. I put in the word 'drugs' and I was surprised how often this topic has been talked about already.

Just a guess, but maybe the second hand smoke has limited your spelling ability. How come you can spell marijuana  but not dilemma, concerning, worthiness, exposed, roommate or enrolling?

It's not your roommate's fault that you are willing to share a house with someone who is breaking the law. I think that's called guilty by association and one of the questions they ask on your enrollment forms is whether or not you hang around with people of questionable character. Think about it. Do you?

Does anyone have tea?


----------



## aesop081

NavComm said:
			
		

> Does anyone have tea?



Would you believe me if i told you i was an harassment advisor ?

Earl Gray anyone ?


----------



## NavComm

I can suspend my belief system to accept that as a possibility

2 sugars please


----------



## kincanucks

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Would you believe me if i told you i was an harassment advisor ?
> 
> Earl Gray anyone ?



Aren't we all?

milk no sugar.


----------



## Fry

aren't these sarcastic posts just oozing with professionalism?


----------



## aesop081

Fry said:
			
		

> aren't these sarcastic posts just oozing with professionalism?



YES !

Anything else ?


----------



## Tbird

Woo HOO!  Passed the fitness test this afternoon   It was really easy. Now I just have to wait for a phone call from the unit to get sworn in!! So it's either May 30th or July 4th BMQ in Kingston or Meaford. I was told not to dismiss going on the 30th...wow that would be fast processing let me tell ya! Anyone in Ottawa joining the 28th Service Battalion going to BMQ on these dates? If yes do you know what location was finally chosen?  Thanks to all that posted


----------



## MysticLies

Tbird said:
			
		

> Woo HOO!  Passed the fitness test this afternoon   It was really easy. Now I just have to wait for a phone call from the unit to get sworn in!! So it's either May 30th or July 4th BMQ in Kingston or Meaford. I was told not to dismiss going on the 30th...wow that would be fast processing let me tell ya! Anyone in Ottawa joining the 28th Service Battalion going to BMQ on these dates? If yes do you know what location was finally chosen?  Thanks to all that posted



thats great. I just finished my medical yesterday everything was ok, but I had to get an eye checkup just in case. I have my physical this Friday, I just hope I make it. the requirements seem a bit hard at first glance. lol


----------



## Tbird

Have you been training at home or in the gym? If you can do the minimum sit ups and push ups already you'll be fine. As for the grip test put it this way. I do train, I am female and I got a total of 82...the pass is 50 for women. The pass for men is 75 I think. So i'm sure you'll be fine there. In the step test they play a tape, the woman says  up-2-3-down-2-3. You do that for 3 min then they stop you test your heart rate and you keep doing this process until your heart rate reaches it's max allowed. It only took me 2 sessions to reach it, same with the guy who was being tested with me. Oh as well they check your blood pressure before and after. I believe they calculate your numbers together and come to a final number. This number has to be in a certain range. So for a person who has high blood pressure or their heart beats way to fast after the step test is where they would have problems. If you've gone jogging and prepared yourself you'll do fine. The test itself is very easy. It's how your heart reacts to the activity is the trick    Good luck to ya!


----------



## MysticLies

Yup, I have been running for 20 minutes for about 2 weeks now. so the step test/pushups/situps won't be to hard. Just I have no idea about the hand grip, I want to think I can get 75 and over, and I never know . And that heart rate thing also worries me. But hey I'll do my best.


----------



## Tbird

Ok the hand grip is a device the size of...a staple gun. If you look at the front of it you'll see numbers from 0 and up, with a needle on it. It is very light in weight. On the end opposite to the needle there is an opening to wrap your hand around it (like holding a plastic grocery bag) . You stretch your arm out to a 45 degree angle and as you bring the device towards your hip, you squeeze as hard as you can. When you look at the needle you'll see that it has moved to a certain number. They give you 2 tries for each hand, and combine your best scores from each hand. I got 41 on each. The guy that was tested with me got 50 on each. When you squeeze down on it, it doesn't feel like it moves very much but it does. Just make sure you place your hand in a way that you feel will benefit you the most. I adjusted my grip the second time around and I wrapped my fingers around one end a tad to far. Needed more of my palm to help squeeze. It'll make more sense when you see it. lol  But I didn't find it hard, just a bit awkward and I have long fingers lol


----------



## MysticLies

thanks a lot. I think I may have a good idea what it is now, hey and if they give us 2 tries that's even better.


----------



## Jed

old medic said:
			
		

> diagnosis   - talking out his bum.
> 
> No prostate exam.


 I am glad to see that things have changed in the past few years. I distinctly, uncomfortably, remember my first prostate exam during the army medical in 1971. Oh yes, they also added a couple of inches on my height for good measure.


----------



## Tbird

No problem MysticLies, good luck. I'm sure you'll do just fine.


----------



## NavComm

Congrats TBird! Way to go!

Mystic, I am an old woman and I passed the PT. Well, OK, not on the first try but that was because I was practising the wrong kind of pushups. Believe me, the fact that I finally passed it is proof positive that it's not impossible! To test your hand grip go to any sports store and ask to see their hand grips and give it a good try. Good luck!


----------



## Tbird

Thanks NavComm! I'm not an old lady but I'm also not wet behind the ears. Turnin' 30 in June and I passed the fitness test with no problem. Glad to see you didn't give up and passed on your 2nd try! Are you finding the application process fast or slow? Mine has been rather quick I must say. So far no hang ups. Just waiting for the call now  ;D


----------



## MysticLies

thanks NavComm, If I fail the first time I will most likely try again ;D

my application process is going somewhat good, everything had to be done before June 12th, in order for me to go to BMQ this summer.I will be done everything by this Friday, I just hope time is on my side.


----------



## NavComm

TBird thanks! It actually took me 3 tries  :-[ but that's another story lol.

I'm finding the process quick. The only hold ups have been my fault. The DND here has been fantastic! I'm just waiting now for my med records from Borden, they went on May 2 so I think it's moving along as it should.

I started in December with my application. Take into account the Xmas holidays which was a slight delay. Once January came though everything started moving quick. I did my CFAT on a Saturday with about 20 other people. Then was scheduled for my PT (failed  :crybaby: ) that was rescheduled on one of those big recruiting days where I had my interview and medical and begged off the PT because I just wasn't ready. They rescheduled my PT and I passed it in April. So, all in all, pretty quick I think.

I'm applying for reserve, don't know if the process is the same for reg force? I'm hoping to do BMQ end of June.


----------



## NavComm

MysticLies said:
			
		

> thanks NavComm, If I fail the first time I will most likely try again ;D



Yes definately do it again if you don't pass. When I first went I couldn't even do one proper push up. That just made me want to try harder! My recruiter and the fitness tester at DND were full of encouragement too. When I finally passed I did the required push-ups for males under 35!



> my application process is going somewhat good, everything had to be done before June 12th, in order for me to go to BMQ this summer.I will be done everything by this Friday, I just hope time is on my side.



Best of luck to you!


----------



## Tbird

Hey NavComm I'm joining the Reserves as well. If ya feel like chatting you can messenger me  tallbrat27@hotmail.com Be nice to exchange some stories.


----------



## aesop081

t-bird, navcomm....

are you guys done thanking each other for thanking each other ?  ;D


----------



## Tbird

No...no I think I got one thank you left in me.... Thanks aesop for the big smile, right back at ya  ;D lol :-*


----------



## NavComm

aesop081 said:
			
		

> t-bird, navcomm....
> 
> are you guys done thanking each other for thanking each other ?  ;D



Uh....no....lol I just want to thank the academy......oooppps


----------



## NavComm

Tbird said:
			
		

> Hey NavComm I'm joining the Reserves as well. If ya feel like chatting you can messenger me  tallbrat27@hotmail.com Be nice to exchange some stories.



ok  I'll add ya as soon as I figure out whether I have msn at the office I don't use it much


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> I'm just waiting now for my med records from Borden
> 
> I'm applying for reserve, don't know if the process is the same for reg force? I'm hoping to do BMQ end of June.



hey are you going to Borden? because that is where I am going to be doing my BMQ, for the Naval Reserve. the Borden BMQ I heard starts at June 26 and ends at August 27 or something close to that.


----------



## NavComm

MysticLies said:
			
		

> hey are you going to Borden? because that is where I am going to be doing my BMQ, for the Naval Reserve. the Borden BMQ I heard starts at June 26 and ends at August 27 or something close to that.



Oh I'm getting so much different information. Last I heard they are going to have a bmq in Esquimalt starting June 28. My original recruiter is away (I think he might be teaching at Borden) so I am not sure. I'm hoping for either Borden or Esquimalt end of June so maybe we'll meet!


----------



## Tbird

Hey NavComm when did your medical file get sent to Borden? Mine was sent May 16th.


----------



## NavComm

Tbird said:
			
		

> Hey NavComm when did your medical file get sent to Borden? Mine was sent May 16th.



May 2...now I'm worried! When did you get your call?


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> Oh I'm getting so much different information. Last I heard they are going to have a bmq in Esquimalt starting June 28. My original recruiter is away (I think he might be teaching at Borden) so I am not sure. I'm hoping for either Borden or Esquimalt end of June so maybe we'll meet!



well hope you get to go to Borden.


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> May 2...now I'm worried! When did you get your call?



now I am worried, because my medical file has'nt even been approved yet, i still have to go to my eye doctor tommrow and hand it in on Monday. my local branch said all your files must be finished by June 12-15.  :-\


hey T-bird are you going to Borden too?


----------



## NavComm

Mystic I'm actually hoping to get to Esquimalt. It's much closer to home and the weather won't be quite so unbearable as I hear Borden in June can be!


----------



## Tbird

I haven't gotten the all important call as of yet. Still jumping to the phone every time it rings! As for basic...I was told it was either going to be Kingston or Meaford. So I still haven't received an answer on that yet. So I wait....


----------



## MysticLies

Tbird said:
			
		

> I haven't gotten the all important call as of yet. Still jumping to the phone every time it rings! As for basic...I was told it was either going to be Kingston or Meaford. So I still haven't received an answer on that yet. So I wait....


that must be some trauma, having to wait for a phone call, and you don't know when you're going to get it  

Esquimalt BC? wow I thought you were in Ontario.


----------



## NavComm

MysticLies said:
			
		

> Esquimalt BC? wow I thought you were in Ontario.



If you're asking me, I'm in Vancouver, BC so Esquimalt would be a nice little excursion  Besides isn't Borden land locked? I'm a west coast girl, I like being on, in or near the water!  ;D


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> If you're asking me, I'm in Vancouver, BC so Esquimalt would be a nice little excursion  Besides isn't Borden land locked? I'm a west coast girl, I like being on, in or near the water!  ;D


 ;D, I have never been to Borden, all I know is that is above toronto. I just thought you were going to Borden because you sent your file to Borden....or does everyones file go to Borden?


----------



## NavComm

I could be wrong but my understanding is all files go to Borden and are checked (I was told by the recruiter) by one person. That one person is doing all the med files....hence the delay


----------



## Tbird

I haven't been waiting to long so I can't complain. But I'll be very happy once I know what the plans are for this summer. If someone asks me right now what my plans are ...well I answer I really don't know yet! lol  I'm going to call the unit and ask where it's going to be at least. The last time I called they didn't have an answer for me. We shall see


----------



## mike1983

Is the urine test basicly a drug test? I am worried because I have been at a crowded rock show a few times recently, and everybody around me was smoking weed, and I have my testing scheduled for 1 week from now. Should I not bother going?


----------



## Tbird

I do believe it tests to see if you have drugs and such in your system. As for the amount of time it takes for that stuff to get out of your body....I really don't know. I'm sure if you call up the recruiting center they'll let you know for a fact.


----------



## McAllister

BE CAREFUL!!!   The Urine test is not only for drugs.  I worked out at the gym the night before my urine test and it detected trace amounts of red blood cells.(from the stressful exercise)  Thats the reason I wasnt merit listed. They rejected my medical. Now I'm doing all these extensive medical tests to gather proof that I'm healthy, which I and my doctors know I AM.

Of course, I had my doctor give me the same urine test later when I hadn't worked out in a while and it was clear, but they didnt care.

I'm perfecly heathy, but there's now a possibility I may never get in due to that one little mistake.


----------



## McAllister

Also, Mike, my doc said for me not to worry too much about the second hand weed smoke. I'm a tree planter right now, so you can imagine the amounts of second had I have to avoid every day. Especially in the vehicles. Breathe it thru yer shirt. :-X


----------



## mike1983

So they will still my application through if they found traces of thc? Or are you talking about an outside doctor?


----------



## Tbird

Well I have no idea. All I do know is the med tech opened up the cup in front of me dipped a strip of paper in it, looked at the paper, then threw it all out. So I gather she wanted to see if the paper changed color (which i'm sure detects drugs etc).


----------



## McAllister

Yeah. I think they just called it the 'dipstick' test or something.  They don't do a lab workup. Unless, maybe, they detect something/


----------



## mbhabfan

hey Mcallister how are the tests going?


----------



## Gunner98

Name	Nick Name	Detection(in days)
Marijuana	Pot	5-30
LSD	Acid	1.5-5
Phencyclidine	PCP, Angle Dust	14-30
MDMA	Ecstasy	7
Amphetamines	Ice, crank	1-4
Metphamphe- tamine	Speed	1-4
Cocaine	Coke	1-6
Codeine		1-6
Morphine	Morph	1-6
Hydocodone	Dilles	1-6
Heroin	Smack	1-6
Oxycodone	Percs	1-6
Meperdine	Demmies	1-7
Propoxypene	None	1-3
Phenobarbital	Downers	2-21
Secobarbital	Barbs, reds	2-21
Diazepam	Downers	3-45
Alprazolam	Downers	3-45
Methaqualone	Ludes	12-14

Source: http://www.urineluck.com/drug-testing-library/abuse.html?PHPSESSID=60bd5e900d0a32c2839a0dfbf33d66c0


----------



## MysticLies

So Happy...just did my physical and passed. I was so worried but in the end it turned out really easy. I got total 93 for the hand grip, 30 pushups, and 32 situps(could have done more but she said timesup), she said I did good on the run thing, but I didn't understand any of the numbers she wrote down lol. the music helped a lot, it sounded like some video game music from zelda or something lol, it was good anyway, the voice at points helped me then confused me, everytime the vedio said up I was going down ;D


----------



## Tbird

Hey good for you. I told you you'd be ok.  ;D


----------



## NavComm

mike1983 said:
			
		

> Is the urine test basicly a drug test? I am worried because I have been at a crowded rock show a few times recently, and everybody around me was smoking weed, and I have my testing scheduled for 1 week from now. Should I not bother going?



do a search for 'drugs' this topic has been asked and answered many times


----------



## MysticLies

thanks, all thats left now is the wait : ;D


----------



## NavComm

MysticLies said:
			
		

> So Happy...just did my physical and passed. I was so worried but in the end it turned out really easy. I got total 93 for the hand grip, 30 pushups, and 32 situps(could have done more but she said timesup), she said I did good on the run thing, but I didn't understand any of the numbers she wrote down lol. the music helped a lot, it sounded like some video game music from zelda or something lol, it was good anyway, the voice at points helped me then confused me, everytime the vedio said up I was going down ;D



way to go! congrats


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> way to go! congrats




thanks ;D


----------



## Tbird

Ahh yes the wait...isn't it fun   ;D   I called the recruiting office today to see if my med file was still in Borden....well it says in their computer that it was recieved in Borden yesterday...it was sent to them on the 16th of May. So it still has to be approved, sent back to the recruiting center, they close my file, send it to my unit and then my unit contacts me...I believe....lol   Well I missed the May 30th BMQ, guess I cross my fingers for July 4th.


----------



## NavComm

I just called the rc too. He told me not to expect my file back until the middle of next month. It was sent to Borden May 2. He says they've got about 1,000 files to review and because it's a very serious part of the application process it takes time to be reviewed.

I asked him about the June bmq (provided all comes back good from Borden). He says for part-time (res) that will be dealt with at the unit once my file is forwarded to them.

So the wait is still on for me too.


----------



## MysticLies

Tbird said:
			
		

> Ahh yes the wait...isn't it fun  ;D  I called the recruiting office today to see if my med file was still in Borden....well it says in their computer that it was received in Borden yesterday...it was sent to them on the 16th of May. So it still has to be approved, sent back to the recruiting center, they close my file, send it to my unit and then my unit contacts me...I believe....lol  Well I missed the May 30th BMQ, guess I cross my fingers for July 4th.



oh God, my cut of date in on June 17, and my file hasn't even been sent yet(freaking out), I have a feeling I might miss this summers BMQ, cause school starts for me in the beginning of September.


----------



## Tbird

Hmmm guess we'll see what happens huh. I find it interesting that so many people who don't know each other in different parts of the country are going through the same thing as we speak. I'm glad I came across this site it has made me feel like I'm not alone in all this. That somewhere someone knows exactly how I feel. Or have some great advice on how to help. I'm not in the Army yet and I already feel like part of a team.


----------



## MysticLies

Tbird said:
			
		

> Hmmm guess we'll see what happens huh. I find it interesting that so many people who don't know each other in different parts of the country are going through the same thing as we speak. I'm glad I came across this site it has made me feel like I'm not alone in all this. That somewhere someone knows exactly how I feel. Or have some great advice on how to help. I'm not in the Army yet and I already feel like part of a team.



thats exactly how I feel, with out this site the process would be much harder. ;D


beyond Freaky, my naval recruiting officer just called, and wanted to see at what point I am at. I just told him I finished everything, and my application would most likely be sent next week. I told him about the time thing, and he said there still is a somewhat good chance that you can make it in time for June 27 BMQ. ;D So here is hoping.


----------



## McAllister

To answer you question habfan, the tests are all great in the sense that nothing is wrong with me.  So far, I've undergone countless bloodworks, 24hr urine collections, and even, just recently, a full-blown cystoscopy exam, wich was almost as painful as it was pointless. All of these exams showed me all clear. 

I have a Renal ultrasound (waste of time/money) scheduled for July 29 at the earliest, but they say I can get it earlier If I do it in a town 2 hours south of here. I'll look into it.  My doctors tell me that these exams are pretty much as thourough as any can be, and if this hard medical proof won't convince the Borden docs I'm healthy, nothing will.


----------



## NavComm

MysticLies said:
			
		

> oh God, my cut of date in on June 17, and my file hasn't even been sent yet(freaking out), I have a feeling I might miss this summers BMQ, cause school starts for me in the beginning of September.



maybe you and I will be in Borden next April  ;D


----------



## NavComm

Tbird said:
			
		

> Hmmm guess we'll see what happens huh. I find it interesting that so many people who don't know each other in different parts of the country are going through the same thing as we speak. I'm glad I came across this site it has made me feel like I'm not alone in all this. That somewhere someone knows exactly how I feel. Or have some great advice on how to help. I'm not in the Army yet and I already feel like part of a team.



me too!



			
				MysticLies said:
			
		

> beyond Freaky, my naval recruiting officer just called, and wanted to see at what point I am at. I just told him I finished everything, and my application would most likely be sent next week. I told him about the time thing, and he said there still is a somewhat good chance that you can make it in time for June 27 BMQ. ;D So here is hoping.



you're recruiter is probably reading this board lololol.....uh, if my recruiter is reading this....a call would really lift my spirits ;D


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> maybe you and I will be in Borden next April  ;D


maybe, thats at least one good thing that would come out of it. but If I don't make it this summer, its going to be a long, sad, hard summer. ;D



*you're recruiter is probably reading this board lololol.....uh, if my recruiter is reading this....a call would really lift my spirits*
that would explain why me and T-bird, were called near the same time. lol ;D


----------



## Tbird

Hey Mystic and Nav do you know for sure that you'll be going to the same place? just curious


----------



## MysticLies

Tbird said:
			
		

> Hey Mystic and Nav do you know for sure that you'll be going to the same place? just curious



She is all the way in B.C so she might not get to go to Borden(correct me if I am wrong Nav). I am all the way in Ontario, like 6 hours away from Borden, so I most likely would be going to Borden.




*have to go for now, it was nice sharing*


----------



## Tbird

Ohh ok I thought you had both been told that that was the location. Got it now


----------



## Tbird

Nav were you given more then 1 possibility for location regarding basic training? I was, just a tad confused as to why that is.


----------



## McAllister

Yeah. I'm in BC too. A little too far away to straighten these things out in person.


----------



## NavComm

Tbird said:
			
		

> Nav were you given more then 1 possibility for location regarding basic training? I was, just a tad confused as to why that is.



Well yes and no LOL. I've always been told I would do bmq in Borden. Then a few weeks ago I got told I could go to Esquimalt, but it turns out the person who told me that was just new to the post and made a mistake. So it's back to Borden and only Borden for bmq. Then to either Halifax or Esquimalt for further training (probably next summer).


----------



## MysticLies

So did anyone get any calls yet, I still have to hand in my application on Monday, and hope it gets where it needs to get in time.


----------



## Tbird

No news yet. I'm going to call again to check my med file status. Keep ya posted


----------



## NavComm

Nope, just talked to the recruiter on Friday, so I'm waiting. I'm going to go check my mail in a short time. It's still early here (8:45 a.m.). I'm hoping to hear this week.


----------



## MysticLies

hey guys...I handed in my PT and eye exam file today. And about 4 hours later I get a call from my local Navy recruiter, who said congrats I have been excepted. And that I am to go tomorrow to a ceremony that will be held. (I am guessing its some kind of expectation ceremony, because he said you Can bring your parents and a camera if I wanted. Also said to dress nicely and brink your Banking information. Did any one do this already? I still have to see if I can get in for BMQ


----------



## Tbird

Wow that's awesome! Nothing like that is going on on my end. But i'm happy for ya


----------



## MysticLies

Tbird said:
			
		

> Wow that's awesome! Nothing like that is going on on my end. But i'm happy for ya



hope you get a call soon . Its probably an enrollment thing. So even if you don't get to go to BMQ you will get to go to this.


----------



## 043

CANFORGEN 097/05 ADM HR MIL 020 201321Z MAY 05
CHANGE TO ENROLMENT MEDICAL PROCEDURE
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. TRIAL DIRECTIVE 5323-1(COS ADM(HR-MIL)) 15 MAY 04 
B. TRIAL ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATIONS 5671-2(COS CFRG) 5 JAN 05 



THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO ANNOUNCE A CHANGE TO THE ENROLMENT MEDICAL PROCEDURE 


BACKGROUND. AS A RESULT OF A REVIEW OF PRIMARY RESERVE (PRES) HR POLICIES A TRIAL WAS CONDUCTED TO DETERMINE THE FEASIBILITY OF EXPEDITING MEDICAL PROCEDURES FOR PRES RECRUIT APPLICANT ENROLMENT. THIS TRIAL INITIALLY INVOLVED THE PRIMARY RESERVE LAND FORCE ELEMENTS AND THE RECRUITING AND MEDICAL ASPECTS CONTROLLED BY ADM(HR-MIL). UNDER THIS TRIAL APPLICANTS WOULD BE ENROLLED INTO THE PRES AFTER BEING DEEMED MEDICALLY FIT BASED ON THE MEDICAL PART 2 WHILE PENDING FINAL MEDICAL PART 3 APPROVAL 


TRIAL ANALYSIS RESULTS CONCLUDED THAT THE RISK OF ENROLLING A MEDICALLY UNFIT APPLICANT WAS MINIMAL AND ACCEPTABLE. ANY APPLICANTS SUBSEQUENTLY FOUND TO BE UNFIT ON THE MEDICAL PART 3 WILL BE RELEASED UNDER QR AND O 15.01 ITEM 5E (IRREGULAR ENROLMENT). THIS PROCEDURAL CHANGE HAS NOW BEEN ADOPTED ON A PERMANENT BASIS FOR ALL PRES APPLICANTS AND WILL BE ADOPTED FOR ALL REGULAR FORCE APPLICANTS EFFECTIVE 1 JUNE 05. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO CIC APPLICANTS. THE EXTENSION OF THIS PROCEDURE TO CIC APPLICANTS IS CURRENTLY THE SUBJECT OF ONGOING CONSIDERATION


----------



## NavComm

Congrats Mystic! And thank you 2023, I guess this means we're all in pending being deemed unfit once in BMQ? Whoooohooooo!


----------



## NavComm

MysticLies said:
			
		

> hey guys...I handed in my PT and eye exam file today. And about 4 hours later I get a call from my local Navy recruiter, who said congrats I have been excepted. And that I am to go tomorrow to a ceremony that will be held. (I am guessing its some kind of expectation ceremony, because he said you Can bring your parents and a camera if I wanted. Also said to dress nicely and brink your Banking information. Did any one do this already? I still have to see if I can get in for BMQ



sounds like you are getting sworn in! Congrats!


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> sounds like you are getting sworn in! Congrats!



thanks, I thought that might be it. Hope everyone gets the same call soon.


----------



## NavComm

I might just give my recruiter a call and see if this applies to all reserve applicants.


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> I might just give my recruiter a call and see if this applies to all reserve applicants.



call him, and make sure you call both the army branch(where you did the interview and your medical) and the branch(army,navy,land) you are going to.


----------



## Tbird

WOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!  Ok I got the call!!!! I get sworn in on Monday. I'm going to be in the July 4th BMQ in Kingston!!!! I'm so happy right now. Thanks guys for all the support.


----------



## MysticLies

Tbird said:
			
		

> WOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!  Ok I got the call!!!! I get sworn in on Monday. I'm going to be in the July 4th BMQ in Kingston!!!! I'm so happy right now. Thanks guys for all the support.



congrats T-bird....I was sworn in on Tuesday, and if all goes well is going to BMQ in Borden on the 27th of June. Hope every one else gets the call.


----------



## 9nr Domestic

2023 said:
			
		

> CANFORGEN 097/05 ADM HR MIL 020 201321Z MAY 05
> CHANGE TO ENROLMENT MEDICAL PROCEDURE
> UNCLASSIFIED
> 
> 
> REFS: A. TRIAL DIRECTIVE 5323-1(COS ADM(HR-MIL)) 15 MAY 04
> B. TRIAL ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATIONS 5671-2(COS CFRG) 5 JAN 05
> 
> 
> 
> THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO ANNOUNCE A CHANGE TO THE ENROLLMENT MEDICAL PROCEDURE
> 
> 
> BACKGROUND. AS A RESULT OF A REVIEW OF PRIMARY RESERVE (PRES) HR POLICIES A TRIAL WAS CONDUCTED TO DETERMINE THE FEASIBILITY OF EXPEDITING MEDICAL PROCEDURES FOR PRES RECRUIT APPLICANT ENROLLMENT. THIS TRIAL INITIALLY INVOLVED THE PRIMARY RESERVE LAND FORCE ELEMENTS AND THE RECRUITING AND MEDICAL ASPECTS CONTROLLED BY ADM(HR-MIL). UNDER THIS TRIAL APPLICANTS WOULD BE ENROLLED INTO THE PRES AFTER BEING DEEMED MEDICALLY FIT BASED ON THE MEDICAL PART 2 WHILE PENDING FINAL MEDICAL PART 3 APPROVAL
> 
> 
> TRIAL ANALYSIS RESULTS CONCLUDED THAT THE RISK OF ENROLLING A MEDICALLY UNFIT APPLICANT WAS MINIMAL AND ACCEPTABLE. ANY APPLICANTS SUBSEQUENTLY FOUND TO BE UNFIT ON THE MEDICAL PART 3 WILL BE RELEASED UNDER QR AND O 15.01 ITEM 5E (IRREGULAR ENROLLMENT). THIS PROCEDURAL CHANGE HAS NOW BEEN ADOPTED ON A PERMANENT BASIS FOR ALL PRES APPLICANTS AND WILL BE ADOPTED FOR ALL REGULAR FORCE APPLICANTS EFFECTIVE 1 JUNE 05. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO CIC APPLICANTS. THE EXTENSION OF THIS PROCEDURE TO CIC APPLICANTS IS CURRENTLY THE SUBJECT OF ONGOING CONSIDERATION



Wow , that just blows my mind. 

So if an applicant is found to be unfit on the medical part 3, can they appeal the decision?


----------



## LL

congratulations T-bird!!!! I'm still waiting but hearing that some one got in has given me hope.


----------



## kincanucks

9R Domestic said:
			
		

> Wow , that just blows my mind.
> 
> So if an applicant is found to be unfit on the medical part 3, can they appeal the decision?



They will be released and if they can provide proof that medical condition has been rectified then they can reapply.


----------



## SoF

Well when I went in for my medical I filled out this medical questionaire first then my blood pressure was taken and I was weighed. Then I went in this small booth to test my hearing. You just put on the head phones and the doctor gives you this little clicker and you click it every time you hear the noise. Then you do a colour blind test; you just look at a bunch of colour pictures of numbers and just say the number that you see. Then they check your eyesight; you just read from a standard eye chart while blocking one of your eyes. Then they give you a plastic cup; go piss in it. Then I went in another office and the doctors asks you alot of questions about your medical history; like any broken bones or concussions. Now I read in other threads that you have to strip to your underwear but he only told me to take off my shirt, he just puts a  stephascope on varries parts of your back and chest and asks you to breath in and out. Then he checks the mobility of all your limbs; like he'll hold onto your wrist and ask you to pull back and to push foreward, oh and he also hits you in the knees with that little hammer. Then he puts some device in your ears for a second; probably just to check if you have an ear infection or whatever. Then you open your mouth and he puts the wooden stick in there and you say ahhhh. He also tells you to move your head to the left and right and forward and back. I think thats all of it. Hope that helps


----------



## Tbird

Yuppers that's exaclty what I had to do as well.


----------



## George Wallace

Come on guys....after eight pages, we are still getting the same questions and the same answers....do some reading before posting a question!


----------



## DogOfWar

SoF said:
			
		

> Well when I went in for my medical I filled out this medical questionaire first then my blood pressure was taken and I was weighed. Then I went in this small booth to test my hearing. You just put on the head phones and the doctor gives you this little clicker and you click it every time you hear the noise. Then you do a colour blind test; you just look at a bunch of colour pictures of numbers and just say the number that you see. Then they check your eyesight; you just read from a standard eye chart while blocking one of your eyes. Then they give you a plastic cup; go piss in it. Then I went in another office and the doctors asks you alot of questions about your medical history; like any broken bones or concussions. Now I read in other threads that you have to strip to your underwear but he only told me to take off my shirt, he just puts a   stephascope on varries parts of your back and chest and asks you to breath in and out. Then he checks the mobility of all your limbs; like he'll hold onto your wrist and ask you to pull back and to push foreward, oh and he also hits you in the knees with that little hammer. Then he puts some device in your ears for a second; probably just to check if you have an ear infection or whatever. Then you open your mouth and he puts the wooden stick in there and you say ahhhh. He also tells you to move your head to the left and right and forward and back. I think thats all of it. Hope that helps



No blood drawn eh? Me neither of course the mods will have you believe its part of the process. But Im just a one hook what do i know.


----------



## NavComm

Tbird said:
			
		

> WOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!  Ok I got the call!!!! I get sworn in on Monday. I'm going to be in the July 4th BMQ in Kingston!!!! I'm so happy right now. Thanks guys for all the support.



Whooo hoooo! Congrats!


----------



## NavComm

regarding that canforgen note, I spoke to the recruiting centre about it last week. They told me that it only applies to people  who had no issues at all with their pt and medical exams. If you had any difficulties with either of those, then you will still have to wait for the medical part 3 before going to bmq.


----------



## Tbird

Got sworn in today  ;D  I'm supposed to go back on Wednesday to be issued some gear and get my i.d.  Everyone was so nice and welcomed me to the forces. I must've said thanks 20 times!! lol I was so excited...still am...feels great.


----------



## quebecownage

dude im getting sworn in tommorow 1800hours

that feels so frerakin great


----------



## NavComm

I have a message in with the medical officer at the recruiting centre. When I phoned for an update I was told that because it's been over one month since they sent my file to Borden, I have to speak to a medical officer so that they can enquire with Borden what's up with my file! :crybaby: I'm losing hope that I will be going to bmq June 28.


----------



## MysticLies

NavComm said:
			
		

> I have a message in with the medical officer at the recruiting centre. When I phoned for an update I was told that because it's been over one month since they sent my file to Borden, I have to speak to a medical officer so that they can enquire with Borden what's up with my file! :crybaby: I'm losing hope that I will be going to bmq June 28.



ahh hope everything goes well, don't worry if you don't get in this year, there is always next year.


----------



## NavComm

Thanks Mystic, I am still hoping it gets sorted out in time. I have put in for my (tentative) leave of absence but if I don't get word this week my boss will probably cancel it to give my replacement time to find other work!


----------



## dk

When i had my med, they looked at my first choice AVN Tech, and did the med.

During the interview the Captain told the med staff to make sure i got the paperwork for Aircrew Med since my second choice was AC OP.

Just incase someone else is in the same situation, so you can save some time.


----------



## Tbird

Hey Navcomm any news yet?
As for me I'm off to do Pre-BMQ June 26th at Kingston. Then BMQ starts July 4th. I almost have all my kit, got my i.d. and tags. I've been helping out with my unit the past week and it's been awesome. Already learned some cool stuff.  ;D


----------



## NavComm

Tbird said:
			
		

> Hey Navcomm any news yet?
> As for me I'm off to do Pre-BMQ June 26th at Kingston. Then BMQ starts July 4th. I almost have all my kit, got my i.d. and tags. I've been helping out with my unit the past week and it's been awesome. Already learned some cool stuff.  ;D



That's great TBird! I haven't had any word yet. The recruiter told me not to worry though because even if I miss bmq this year I will still get sworn in and put to some good use at the unit until the next bmq in April 2006.  I'm just hoping this delay doesn't mean I'm going to receive a letter saying I'm not accepted!  :crybaby:


----------



## Piccillo

Some of you may remember me from last summer. My situation has changed slightly, and now I am here once again to ask the advice of anyone who knows more then me, and I know very little on this matter.

Last year i marched down to my local CFRC and asked to enlist in the canadian reserve's. they said OK and gave me a date to take the CFAT and do the interview. After all was said and done, i had Pretty good CFAT results, and a nicely done interview. But i was rejected none-the-less due to the fact that i am a total moron. Here is my big problem. December of 2003, big party. Of course, Im seventeen and stupid, So i munch on a mushroom (not some..one) and yes, Its a drug, a bad one, and im stupid..moving along. The Captian doing the interview completed the interview knowing of my use (i said i had tried it once before, about 9 months ago) and he didnt even blink, just nodded. And then when the interview was over, he told me to come back in january 2007 and said nothing more.

Now...its been about 1.5 years since the use (the waiting time from last use is 3 years) and im still going to wait a few more months before i go re-apply (im getting surgury done on my jaw and blah blah i wont be able to talk or eat for a while) so it may very well be a full 2 years since i did the drug. 

My situation has changed however. Im no longer interested in just the reserves, and im no longer "wondering" if i want to do this. Im sure i want to do this, and i fully intend to stay with the military untill i retire. So the reserves isnt a very good place for me, So im going to join Full Time. Im in good physical condition, no health issues, and alot of people think im made for the army.

here is where I need your help. Am i just pissing in the wind, waisting my time, barking up the wrong tree. Will my past drug use keep me out of the military, both now and even after the waiting period. Will they let me do basic, then leave it at that, No unit, no chance to further train, No chance to really DO anything with my carrer. ?? How screwed up am I from my past drug use?


----------



## kincanucks

come back in january 2007


----------



## Gouki

Don't give up on it, if you want it truly that bad then.. yes, come back in '07 and don't screw it up by being an idiot and doing drugs unless you feel like coming back in '09


----------



## Piccillo

havnt touched a drug since that night dude, trust me i hear the same speech in different forms from everyone i relay this story to 

so the general concesus is that, after '07 im in the clear and this will finally stop hindering my process?

see, i wanted to join the army last year...and since i got rejected i just ... got a part time job and sit here waiting it out..done with school..all that..just..waiting...my life is at a stall...it SUCKS!


----------



## Gouki

Don't worry, I feel your pain too about the crap job and slow paced life etc .. Now you got some longer waiting than me to do that's for sure but try to be pro-active about it .. perhaps get into better shape, take some gun safety courses (get a license perhaps and learn what you can so you won't have trouble with learning the C7) hell anything... you got all that time so in the end you can either waste it or spend the time preparing to make your life easier when 07 finally does roll around


----------



## Piccillo

i train physically....almost literally 24/7. 

then i got a job and had to cut it back. but i still pick up the weights, or run or do SOMTHING in almost every spare minute i have. im constantly getting into better shape. I dont really change my diet, and thats not gonna help me any..but im a man of habit and refuse to give up my hotdogs and pizza!! i do however, eat alot of protine shakes (they taste so bad..hardly worth the 60 bucks)

I am TOTALLY unfamiliar with the gun laws in canada, and wouldnt even know where to start getting a firearms license. i DO however, plan to collect guns at one point or another in my history, so anyone wanna give me some details on obtaining such a license ^.^ maybe i will go buy a sidearm or somthing to get myself started, ^.^


oh..on a more comical sence...i play violent video games, use this information at your own leasure in giving me information about firearms, because you know how it is right? i let loose one day...its always the videogames..or music...[end sarcasim] that joke may have been a bit out of taste here me-thinks...


----------



## Gouki

Well the diet thing is your own perogative but it wouldn't be that hard to cut down a bit over time would it?

As far as protein shakes, try these two: Chocolate flavour Designer Whey and Whey Kooler Peach & Mango flavour. Designer whey is thick and tastes pretty good, Whey Kooler is an isolate and dissolves really well into water and tastes pretty good (almost like a juice).

The gun laws in Canada suck (for more info see the gun discussion going on in political or somewhere here) You get a license from a local firearms dealer. Tell them you want to study for the test, they should give you a booklet and a movie to learn from... study all that stuff and tell them you want to challenge the test- be sure to tell them you want to take the test for non-restricted AND restricted (non = rifles, restricted = handguns) When you're ready, they will give you a written test followed by a hands on test. Pass both and you get your certificate ... now you gotta follow the BS associated with that, download the right form from the firearms website (I believe its CAFC-921 or some junk) and send all that stuff in to Mirimichi... It takes 3 friggen months to get your card made up (hurray for beauracracy) so do the non-res and ers all in one fell swoop trust me.

....After all that, then you can buy firearms. You can't go out and buy a sidearm to get yourself started, it ain't that easy in this country.


----------



## Piccillo

yea, from what i have heard the gun laws in canada are pretty tough. i dont even know where a local firearms dealer IS (i live in a nice quiet city of only 150,000..no need for a gunshop i guess..ill go looking however) and any registered firearms dealer will have this information i need?


----------



## D-n-A

Don't worry about getting you restricted/unrestricted license an buying a AR15 to practice with. Your probably pick up some bad habits, etc. When you do leave for your BMQ, your have more than enough time to train on the C7 an learn weapon drills(etc) the CF way.


----------



## Gouki

It's not so much buying an AR to practice with as it is that from the material he'll study and the things learned from it that will serve him well with firearms in general


----------



## Piccillo

dont i need a firearms license once i join the army anyway? might as well get it now eh?


----------



## D-n-A

Piccillo said:
			
		

> dont i need a firearms license once i join the army anyway? might as well get it now eh?



No, you don't.


----------



## Fry

While I agree that if you have little or no experience in firearms, then rushing to get a license and going to the range or whatever may screw you up a bit from the proper way to use firearms. Personally, I've been using firearms at a very young age(under supervision) and I have my possession and acquisition license. I've been hunting for years and years, and I know properly how to use a firearm.

I'm sure the CF will train you to use whatever they put in front of you, so I wouldn't go worring about that.


----------



## bled12345

yeah, my story is very similar to yours... I applied 2003, got rejected because I told them I was a chronic pothead who quit to join the army, which was true, i was a chronic, but i quit... so they told me to come back in a year, I was devestated, so a year comes around, I re-apply, wait 8 months through the application process, and viola i'm going to BMQ in st. jean this august, my trade is infantry, reg forces. So this type of story can have a happy ending lol.  I know all about the living life in limbo waiting on the army though, and it sucks, but its a good process to weed (no pun intended) those out that aren't truely dedicated.

(you'd be suprised at how many people get councilled out for a year or more because of drugs lol)


----------



## Piccillo

yea, i also did the weed, but not cronically, im urged to say "socially" but they were quite adament about NOT saying that, so i said 2 times a month, which was about right, for 4 months. the guy during the interview said that was no problem, and i had quit so it was fine. i still dont see anything wrong with marajuana....i just dont smoke it cuzx i dont really like the effects, and im joining the army  i dont really judge people who smoke it though.


----------



## kincanucks

Piccillo said:
			
		

> yea, i also did the weed, but not cronically, im urged to say "socially" but they were quite adament about NOT saying that, so i said 2 times a month, which was about right, for 4 months. the guy during the interview said that was no problem, and i had quit so it was fine. i still dont see anything wrong with marajuana....i just dont smoke it cuzx i dont really like the effects, and im joining the army  i dont really judge people who smoke it though.



Go back to the recruiting office and ask to see the CF Drug Policy and read it several times until you understand that your views about drugs and the people that use them have to conform to the CF policy or you are not going to make it or you are going to get in trouble someday.


----------



## Piccillo

...the CF is goin to tell me how to judge people who smoke a little pot now and then? thanks, but no thanks. the CF can do alot of things, but thats one thing it cannot. the people who do smoke it, arnt joining the army....so they dont need to worry about the CF drug policy


----------



## tree hugger

Kinkanucks is telling you to read it so YOU know about the CF drug policy.  Thats something YOU need to worry about.


----------



## canadianblue

> ...the CF is goin to tell me how to judge people who smoke a little pot now and then? thanks, but no thanks. the CF can do alot of things, but thats one thing it cannot. the people who do smoke it, arnt joining the army....so they dont need to worry about the CF drug policy



Don't you want to join the CF, perhaps you should adhere to the rules and regulations of the CF then.


----------



## Fry

If this is your stance on drugs, then it'd probably be best if you stayed away from the CF, or any law enforcement. You know how the CF thinks of 'pot'. If 'pot' was okay for you to do, then the CF would allow it. Is it allowed? No.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Piccillo said:
			
		

> ...the CF is goin to tell me how to judge people who smoke a little pot now and then? thanks, but no thanks. the CF can do alot of things, but thats one thing it cannot. the people who do smoke it, arnt joining the army....so they dont need to worry about the CF drug policy



You're dead wrong there.  I've seen a few potheads in the army, and what happened to them when they got busted. Carreer , halt!  As an an example of druggies getting tossed, any old RCRs here remember Fred R***heim?

Kat


----------



## Island Ryhno

Now, I'm completely and utterly on the side of the CF with regards to it's drug policy. However, to me, in my very own personal opinion, marijuana is no worse than any alcoholic beverage that you can legally buy off a shelf or out of a cooler at a store. I've seen first hand the effects of alcoholism. That being said, drugs are stupid, using alcohol to get drunk is on par with the the drugs are stupid bit.


----------



## RossF

Piccillo said:
			
		

> ...the CF is goin to tell me how to judge people who smoke a little pot now and then? thanks, but no thanks. the CF can do alot of things, but thats one thing it cannot. the people who do smoke it, arnt joining the army....so they dont need to worry about the CF drug policy



Got news for you, you have to sign a paper saying that you agree with the Drug Policy, and if you go back on your signature, your agreement to that, you're in deep sh** buddy. If you decide you do NOT want to sign it, they decide that they do NOT want you in the Canadian Forces.


----------



## Gouki

A guy here on base (will not elude to who so plz no one in Shilo ask me) got caught with dope and meth. The first time I believe, it was dope. He was councelled, warned, placed on probation and CB'ed and had to attend some sort of drug program. 

He was caught with meth the second time, and came within a hairs width of being kicked out of the Forces and being left to fend for himself. After much, much begging, negotiations, proceedings/hearings later, the CF decided to keep him, but he came so close to going that he had his bags packed ready to return to live with his parents. 

Personally I think the CF should have booted him, but I am also unaware of the consequences for his second infraction. I would imagine it's something incredibly steep since I haven't heard anything more about him since.

Shilo, is very backward and IMO could be run way better - and there is a known drug problem on base which contributes to people getting let off easier as it's not an isolated event. That being said, if he came that close to getting tossed out here, I strongly doubt any normal base would have tolerated his crap half as long as it was here.


----------



## Piccillo

ok let me refrain what i said, since you all seem to have ... thought wrong i suppose.

i dont do pot anymore, nor will i ever do pot ever again. people wont do it around me, because i ask them not to, and if they start to, i leave. if they DO smoke pot, i dont care too much, i just ask they dont talk about it, or do it around me.

maybe you can understand a bit better my stance. and i understand the CF's stance on drugs without even looking at it...no drugs.


----------



## kincanucks

_if they DO smoke pot, i dont care too much, i just ask they dont talk about it, or do it around me._

I still don't think you get it.  You can't have that attitude in the CF.  If you see it or hear of it you have to report it.  You just can't ignore it just because you aren't doing it yourself.  Personally, I think you should find another career path.


----------



## Piccillo

..noone will ever, for any reason ever...EVER tell me who i can and cannot talk to. and for the record, most of the people i see smoking pot..are poliec officers..thus...who exactly am i going to report it to? ill just piss off a bunch of cops.


----------



## Gouki

Piccillo said:
			
		

> ..noone will ever, for any reason ever...EVER tell me who i can and cannot talk to. and for the record, most of the people i see smoking pot..are poliec officers..thus...who exactly am i going to report it to? ill just piss off a bunch of cops.



... Don't join the CF. People like you think like that and associate with their friends who are in biker gangs and they suffer the consequences for it.


----------



## Infanteer

Okay, slow the wagon down here, folks.   Let's untwist this knot of issues and sort this out:



			
				2332Piper said:
			
		

> I DO judge people who smoke pot. Why? Because pot makes you weak, it makes you stupid and it makes you act like a moron.



Okay, regardless of someone's views on marijuana, this statement is just dumb - it is like saying *"I DO judge people who smoke potdrink alcohol. Why? Because pot makes you weak, it makes you stupid and it makes you act like a moron."*   Stating that every person who partakes in smoking marijuana is a weakminded stoner is akin to believing that everyone that cracks a beer is a raving alcoholic.

Plenty of people use marijuana and get along fine in life.   Check out the MacLean's article on the passing of Canada's pre-eminent author, Pierre Burton, an admitted "chronic".   I doubt you'd consider Vimy to be the work of a weak, stupid moron.

State your case, but don't use misleading rhetoric to do so.



> Tell the families of those RCMP officers killed at that farm in Alberta that it really is ok to smoke pot, who does it affect anyways?



Red herring - they weren't killed because they were involved in a drug raid, they were killed because they were dealing with a lunatic who would have killed them if they came to serve him with a subpoena.   Not saying that the police effort to combat the drug industry isn't inherently dangerous, but using the tragedy of Mayerthorpe in this light is wrong - like the issue above, it is misleading rhetoric that obfuscates facts for appeal to emotion.

Now, political issues of marijuana aside (and there are compelling issues on both sides of the argument), lets get to the crux of this argument, the CF Policy on Drug Use (yes, this include Marijuana, Mr Piccillo).   Here you have it:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/019-21_e.asp



> *5.        Because of the implications on operational readiness, safety of both
> members and the public, security, discipline, reliability, cohesion and
> morale, it is CF policy that any unauthorized use or other illegal
> involvement with drugs by CF members will not be tolerated. The Canadian
> Forces Drug Control Program has been established under QR&O, Chapter 20
> as a comprehensive instrument to combat unauthorized use and other illegal
> involvement with drugs. The essential elements of the program are
> education, detection, treatment and rehabilitation.*



Now, notice the part I highlighted for you - other illegal activities; when you sign the Zero-Tolerance this is made very clear to you.   You can't be around this stuff because if you are, the shadow of suspicion will be cast upon your own conduct.   Regardless of your personal views of other people using marijuana, the above is an ethical and professional obligation for you as a Soldier to obey.   Don't, and your ass will be in the sling - you can read all about what can and will happen in the link I provided above.   Tolerating other soldiers doing it is as bad as doing it yourself, because they are also professionally obligated to this policy, and you are failing everyone else by allowing them to continue - as the RCR says, "Never Pass a Fault".

Remember, your obligations as a Soldier (which you both sign and swear to), which are underlined by those above principles of readiness, security, discipline, reliability, cohesion and morale, override your civilian rights to be soft around the gray areas of the law.   Until the CF Policy changes, you will be beholden to this - if you don't like the sounds of this, then perhaps you should take Kincanucks suggestion and find another line of work.


----------



## canadianblue

> ..noone will ever, for any reason ever...EVER tell me who i can and cannot talk to. and for the record, most of the people i see smoking pot..are poliec officers..thus...who exactly am i going to report it to? ill just piss off a bunch of cops.



You know Super Troopers wasn't a documentary.

But really now I'm interested in this comment, exactly which service are these police officers with. I know with Edmonton Police Service I don't know a single police officer that smokes pot, with the RCMP I don't know, and haven't seen a single member who smokes pot out in my area. As well if any police officers are smoking or drinking while on duty then they should be reported to their superiors and dealed with accordingly.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Quote,
and for the record, most of the people i see smoking pot..are poliec officers..thus...who exactly am i going to report it to? ill just piss off a bunch of cops.

...and what makes you think you haven't already?


----------



## Piccillo

Masn, everyone in the CF seems.....very eager to loose potential recruits. I tell people not to smoke pot around me, and if they start to, I leave. by "people" i dont mean other soldiers, I mean friends and mostly..family. I cannot stop being around my family because I live with them. The Police officers are either OPP or local police officers. and many are TTC cops in toronto.

EVery time i have come to these forums regarding this issue, I am mostly met with the same general reaction which generally is "Get out, we dont want you, your worthless"

I fully intend to join the canadian armed forces, To be a member of our infantry, and to fight for our country. I plan to do it for the rest of my life. It just sucks that the people im around are going to have such a major impact on my success in my carrer. SO MANY people smoke pot in my city, i would ballpark the number at about 80% of people aged 15+ so its not exactly easy to get away from. I just tell them all drugs are bad and walk away.

Somehow, you have all gotten the idea that I like drugs. That i plan to do them, That i condone their use and that I even encourage it. This is all wrong. I hate drugs, what little I have done have totally ruined my life up to this point. People who are under the influence of drugs are totally impossible to work with and to be around. If i could get away, I would. with almost all drugs, its quite easy to avoid it, to get away from people with it. but with a drug as far spread and common place as weed, its a serious challenge and I refuse to lock myself up in my house and become a hermit because some people might not like my chances out there.

Now, Picture this...last year i went down to my local CFRC and talked with people, did the CFAT and the interview, and was politely turned away untill 2007. I accepted it and walked out. since then however, People on these forums (and I hold your opinion in high regard) Have been telling me to just "give up" (somthing I never do) and even to join other armys in the world (such as the american and british) simply because they are more forgiving when it comes to drugs.

How encouraged am I now to join an army full of people who seem to think of me as less then nothing. A lesser man would stop trying and just give up on the CF.

When im in the shit in iraq, or any other future hot-spot saving my buddys ASS out there, Im going to remember you all and smile ^.^

Feel free to pick apart this post, and find anything and everything you can to use as dirt upon me. The post..although still on topic is about to erupt in a flame war that i rather not have the admins be forced to deal with. If you have anything to say to me, good or bad...PM it to me. If you have any advice that may help me (aside from telling me to give up) Post it here. I might just happen to check it.


----------



## fleeingjam

Before all hell breaks loose...

Picollo earlier in the topic you reffered to a surgery you were going to have, is it an orthaganic surgery? and when you mentioned it to CFRC did they say it would have an enrollment factor if it was done?

-Usman


----------



## Piccillo

i actually havnt even thought about it effecting my enrollment, its pretty minor simple surgury. its jaw correction surgury. My lower jaw is too small, thus i have an overbite. So they are going to correct it with braces and surgury. There is going to be a period of 2 months where i wont be able to eat or talk much. but after that I think everything should be OK. I am going to ask the surgon about it, and anything about it effecting my enrollment. if its going to hinder my process ill just tell him i dont want it..i dont care too much about my jaw being half an inch smaller then the top one


----------



## fleeingjam

I was just asking because i am in a very similar situation, i was rejected for asthma that i dont have and this surgery. I called the Med Staff in Borden( They actually picked up  ;D) and they said you can either have the surgery and enroll after or not have the surgery and enroll now. So im thinking that parts safe then. But i would recomend you have the surgery because the prognosis of the situation is not so healthy.

-Usman


----------



## Gouki

Seems like the point hit loud and clear with you about drugs.. I guess now you're 100% clear on the issue huh?

BTW .. if you join the Canadian military, don't expect to be in Iraq.. we aren't involved with the war.


----------



## Piccillo

i thought we had recently sent ~40 troops to train the iraqi army..........maybe i was wrong.


----------



## NavComm

We're not talking about hanging out with the kid your parents hate. This is a policy of the CF. If you need it explained to you what happens when you thumb your nose at CF policies then you probably should be signing up at the nearest Mickey D's because they probably don't care who you hang around with or what your family smokes in their pipes.



			
				Piccillo said:
			
		

> EVery time i have come to these forums regarding this issue, I am mostly met with the same general reaction which generally is "Get out, we dont want you, your worthless"



Maybe it's because when you come to these forums regarding this issue, you are not understanding that, unlike your Mom and Dad's rules,  the CF rules are enforced whether you like it or not. I think at the beginnning of this thread, people were sympathetic to you. It was once you posted the wee hissy fit 





			
				Piccillo said:
			
		

> ..noone will ever, for any reason ever...EVER tell me who i can and cannot talk to.


that seems to have turned the tide.




			
				Piccillo said:
			
		

> I fully intend to join the canadian armed forces, To be a member of our infantry, and to fight for our country. I plan to do it for the rest of my life. It just sucks that the people im around are going to have such a major impact on my success in my carrer.



It's been said many times on this forum that joining the CF is not a God-given right. So don't be too disappointed if it doesn't happen. With your attitude it's very unlikely 2007 is gonna be any better for you.



			
				Piccillo said:
			
		

> How encouraged am I now to join an army full of people who seem to think of me as less then nothing. A lesser man would stop trying and just give up on the CF.



I understand that you are young and probably not in complete control of your environment, but that doesn't excuse you from scoffing at the CF policies. If you become a member of the CF you will be expected to honour those policies and guess what? .....they can tell you who to talk to. I have a feeling you won't have to worry about it though.


----------



## canadianblue

> The Police officers are either OPP or local police officers. and many are TTC cops in toronto.



Sorry but I find it hard to believe that their are a bunch of police officers in Ontario that smoke pot. If that's the case I wouldn't want to be movingthere any time soon, plus it makes it sound as if Ontario's got some pretty corrupt police services, which I hope it doesn't.



> When im in the crap in iraq, or any other future hot-spot saving my buddys *** out there, Im going to remember you all and smile ^.^



Well, sorry to tell you but were not in Iraq.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

It doesn't.


----------



## Piccillo

it dosnt. but some do it. Im not going to bash the police force, becuase i respect them all to much to do that. good guys the lot of them.


----------



## NavComm

News flash!!!!! 

You already bashed the police when you said most of the people you see smoking dope are police officers.


----------



## aesop081

I'm getting the tea ready as Kincanucks is bound to read all this   ;D


----------



## Piccillo

Nav: While i did say that, I also said that i dont judge people because they smoke pot. Its wrong and frowned upon but they are all still a bunch of good guys none-the-less and i can see past the pot, unlike most people here -_-


Not everyone who smokes a little pot now and then is an evil person doomed forever to be a social outcast and an overall menace to society who may one day get a hold of a firearm and go apeshit on his local school or park.


----------



## Infanteer

This thread is rapidly approaching its expiration date.


----------



## Piccillo

i totally agree. This thread has gone to shit. its sad too..because i kinda did it  sorry.

I went to another web forum full of people from various armys around the world, and told them what i told you. I hold their opinion above te one here, because i know the guys on the other forum....one guy said i have changed his live with my courage.


----------



## aesop081

Piccillo said:
			
		

> i totally agree. This thread has gone to shit. its sad too..because i kinda did it  sorry.
> 
> I went to another web forum full of people from various armys around the world, and told them what i told you. I hold their opinion above te one here, because i know the guys on the other forum....one guy said i have changed his live with my courage.



whats that sound ?

Oh..its just my BS alarm going off !!

Infanteer.......i think you know what to do


----------



## Fry

If you join the CF and get involved with people that do whatever drugs, they have a very good chance of getting caught. This means you could get tangled up in it as well. A CF member at the recruiting centre told me today that you can get nailed with what I think is called a "Section 5f" or somethin like that, don't quote me on how valid it is, but it's section something..(Someone care to help? lol). Anywho he went on to mention that it'll ban you from ever getting a gov job in Canada or the USA, you can't cross the border, and it'll haunt you wherever you go. As well, you'll be doing time in military prison or somethin. This is what he told me.


----------



## Piccillo

im going to stop replying in this thread, it has served its purpose and i dont think im going to get any more usefull information out of the lot of you.

lock this post please -_-


----------



## Fry

Dude, you brought this on yourself by bashing some of Canada's finest, that has lost much respect for you there.


----------



## aesop081

Piccillo said:
			
		

> im going to stop replying in this thread, it has served its purpose and i dont think im going to get any more usefull information out of the lot of you.
> 
> lock this post please -_-



Was it something i said ?

 ;D


----------



## Piccillo

i wasnt going to reply, but that last comment cannot go un-answered.

bashing some of canadas finest? do you mean our army, or my local police force?

if you were saying the army, then im sorry but you have seem to firugred all wrong dude. I am trying my damned hardest to be one of the finest we have to offer. I have notihng but the highest repsect for every soldier dispite his MOS or length of service.

if you were talking about the police force, then i did kinda hit on them a little, but they are all still awsome guys who perform their duty quite well.


----------



## Genesis

If this guy digs a trench as fast as he has dug himself into a hole in this thread who knows, he may make it. I wouldn't hold my breath though.


----------



## Zombie

2023 said:
			
		

> CANFORGEN 097/05 ADM HR MIL 020 201321Z MAY 05
> CHANGE TO ENROLMENT MEDICAL PROCEDURE
> UNCLASSIFIED
> 
> 
> REFS: A. TRIAL DIRECTIVE 5323-1(COS ADM(HR-MIL)) 15 MAY 04
> B. TRIAL ANALYSIS AND RECOMMENDATIONS 5671-2(COS CFRG) 5 JAN 05
> 
> 
> 
> THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO ANNOUNCE A CHANGE TO THE ENROLMENT MEDICAL PROCEDURE
> 
> 
> BACKGROUND. AS A RESULT OF A REVIEW OF PRIMARY RESERVE (PRES) HR POLICIES A TRIAL WAS CONDUCTED TO DETERMINE THE FEASIBILITY OF EXPEDITING MEDICAL PROCEDURES FOR PRES RECRUIT APPLICANT ENROLMENT. THIS TRIAL INITIALLY INVOLVED THE PRIMARY RESERVE LAND FORCE ELEMENTS AND THE RECRUITING AND MEDICAL ASPECTS CONTROLLED BY ADM(HR-MIL). UNDER THIS TRIAL APPLICANTS WOULD BE ENROLLED INTO THE PRES AFTER BEING DEEMED MEDICALLY FIT BASED ON THE MEDICAL PART 2 WHILE PENDING FINAL MEDICAL PART 3 APPROVAL
> 
> 
> TRIAL ANALYSIS RESULTS CONCLUDED THAT THE RISK OF ENROLLING A MEDICALLY UNFIT APPLICANT WAS MINIMAL AND ACCEPTABLE. ANY APPLICANTS SUBSEQUENTLY FOUND TO BE UNFIT ON THE MEDICAL PART 3 WILL BE RELEASED UNDER QR AND O 15.01 ITEM 5E (IRREGULAR ENROLMENT). THIS PROCEDURAL CHANGE HAS NOW BEEN ADOPTED ON A PERMANENT BASIS FOR ALL PRES APPLICANTS AND WILL BE ADOPTED FOR ALL REGULAR FORCE APPLICANTS EFFECTIVE 1 JUNE 05. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO CIC APPLICANTS. THE EXTENSION OF THIS PROCEDURE TO CIC APPLICANTS IS CURRENTLY THE SUBJECT OF ONGOING CONSIDERATION



Does this mean that the wait time for medical files from Borden has been eliminated (as far as merit listing is concerned) and enrollment can take place pending final results?  I have my medical tomorrow, and just wonder how this policy change affects my chances of being merit listed for 05 Sep.


----------



## kincanucks

If the Medical Technician or Physician Assistant determines that you are med fit Part II and once you have successfully completed the interview, background check and physical fitness test it is possible that you could be merit listed, selected and enrolled before the med part III is complete.  If your med part III comes back unfit then you will be released.


----------



## jo-dionne

_-- Quote --
i heard that if you've ever done PCP .. your application will be terminated immediately and you wont ever be able to reapply .. that would really suck
-- Quote --_

I hope this is false!

_-- Quote --
Certain drugs have certain time frames for restrictions.  Pot is generally 1 yr, LSD/Shrooms etc is 3 a yr restrictions
-- Quote --_

I hope this is true!


When I filled out the drug questionnaire _to the best of my memory_, I have written that I did PCP one time, back in 1992. (_I was 17 and this is the worst experience of my life_)

I have also written that I smoke some marijuana between 1995 and 1999 (_once every two month or so_).

I have simply told the truth and I will definitely not lie about anything!

Does my application will be rejected automatically?

Regards,
Jo


----------



## badsector

Well,  I plan on telling the truth about what I have done in the past.  I have not smoked pot in 2 years (ever since I got serious about graduating college and wanting to become a fire fighter/army reservist).  I am guessing that if I tell them that they should be fine with it.


----------



## badsector

One thing I have noticed (which is irritating) is I know someone in the reserves that smoked pot casualy but stopped 3 months before his interview/phyical.  He told them that he tried it maybe twice and lied about doing it so soon before the interview and he got through fine.  Does the interview panel just hope people tell them the truth?


----------



## geo

What you read here and what is reality is not always 100% in synch.
add a little bit of common sense to whatever you read.

WRT the information you provide - tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but.
(get your story straight - as pointed out; don't write down one thing and say something else)

If you lie and are caught up at a later date.... you've committed an offence per the Code of service discipline and are subject to possible; fines, time & dismissal...... not worth the trouble.

On the subject of the interviewer......... it's obvious that everyone works from the same rulebook.... but not everyone reads it the same way..... but, as with anything... plan on facing a hardass.

IMHO


----------



## Bradboy

For those of you who are even pondering the idea of lying to your recruiter about past drug use, I have this to say to you. Sit down and take awhile to think about what you are doing. The recruiters refuse applications of recent drug users not because they don't like "druggies", but because they feel you could be a liability to the CF. I personally refuse to put my life in the hands of someone who could potentially have a flashback while in the heat of battle. Or even in training for that matter where live rounds are being practised with. So even if you think you can get away with lying to your recruiter, take into account that you may not only be putting yourself at risk, but also your fellow soldiers who's lives you are supposed to be protecting, not jeopardizing. I began my application process in 2004 and fessed up to using Ecstasy in June of 2002. When the recruiter told me that there was a 3 year waiting period from the time you last used this substance, I was heartbroken. But I sucked it up and used that time to better myself for when the time came that I did get accepted. And now that time is here and I've never felt better. I've been selected for the Infantry trade and am going October 3rd to my BMQ. I have nothing to feel guilty about because I was completely honest during my application process. So if you want to lie to your recruiter and fake your way into the CF, than so be it. You'll pay the consequences later. I'm sure it is very difficult to defend your country and risk your life when you have no honour or pride, because you gave that up when you lied. Take this application process very seriously. You are beginning a new life by entering the CF. Why not start over and rid your life of lies and deception?


----------



## kincanucks

Bradboy said:
			
		

> For those of you who are even pondering the idea of lying to your recruiter about past drug use, I have this to say to you. Sit down and take awhile to think about what you are doing. The recruiters refuse applications of recent drug users not because they don't like "druggies", but because they feel you could be a liability to the CF. I personally refuse to put my life in the hands of someone who could potentially have a flashback while in the heat of battle. Or even in training for that matter where live rounds are being practised with. So even if you think you can get away with lying to your recruiter, take into account that you may not only be putting yourself at risk, but also your fellow soldiers who's lives you are supposed to be protecting, not jeopardizing. I began my application process in 2004 and fessed up to using Ecstasy in June of 2002. When the recruiter told me that there was a 3 year waiting period from the time you last used this substance, I was heartbroken. But I sucked it up and used that time to better myself for when the time came that I did get accepted. And now that time is here and I've never felt better. I've been selected for the Infantry trade and am going October 3rd to my BMQ. I have nothing to feel guilty about because I was completely honest during my application process. So if you want to lie to your recruiter and fake your way into the CF, than so be it. You'll pay the consequences later. I'm sure it is very difficult to defend your country and risk your life when you have no honour or pride, because you gave that up when you lied. Take this application process very seriously. You are beginning a new life by entering the CF. Why not start over and rid your life of lies and deception?




Excellent post and with that attitude I predict nothing but good for your career in the CF.


----------



## Bradboy

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Excellent post and with that attitude I predict nothing but good for your career in the CF.



   Thanks Kincanucks.


----------



## atticus

infamous_p said:
			
		

> i heard that if you've ever done PCP .. your application will be terminated immediately and you wont ever be able to reapply .. that would really suck



Forgive me for knowing absolutly nothing about drugs but isn't PCP the same as LSD? Or is PCP "extasy"? 
When I had my interview for the regs when I told him that I have never touched a drug in my life, the interviewer looked at me and said "not even pot?" To which I replied that I'm not even too sure what it looks like. Then with raised eyebrows he wrote something down on his paper. I guess I've always wanted a career in something like the RCMP or the military and because I didn't want to screw my future up I just stayed away from it.


----------



## P-Free

The piss test will not pick up your drug use if it was past a couple months ago. They don't have a special machine to pick this stuff up. They operate on the honor system. But the recruiters do this for a LIVING and are TRAINED to pick up LIARS.


----------



## KevinB

PCP = Angle Dust
 While in 'vogue' (at least in movies and shit) "back in the day" you just dont hear about it much these days (unless your watching Terminator)


----------



## Infanteer

Yeah, meth is the new drug of choice.  But you hear stories from LEO's about some junkies high on PCP - apparently they have fucking inhuman strength and are really dangerous.


----------



## atticus

So PCP is meth? Can't that be made from your everyday household cleaners?


----------



## KevinB

Meth is Speed

 Infanteer was just relating the stories about PCP, and including the fact that it is now uncommon - where as Meth/Speed is now trendy (I guess if you like facial sores and other strange shit  : )

 *KevinB does not do illegal drugs - Hate is my drug of choice (keeps me warm)


----------



## atticus

KevinB said:
			
		

> Meth is Speed
> 
> Infanteer was just relating the stories about PCP, and including the fact that it is now uncommon - where as Meth/Speed is now trendy (I guess if you like facial sores and other strange shit  : )
> 
> *KevinB does not do illegal drugs - Hate is my drug of choice (keeps me warm)



lol  ;D thanks for clearing that up for me. One last question though, are Speed/Meth/Exctasy are pretty much the same thing? (All I know is meth you can smoke and it eats your brain - thank you oprah  and being off work for two weeks)


----------



## Infanteer

As usual, Wikipedia offers you the chance to learn something new:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_%28drug%29

All of these are real bad drugs (meth will turn your teeth into black stumps).


----------



## ThatsLife

I suppose I have to bring up the fact that I have tried pot ONCE 6 years ago, when I was 12/13, and never saw another drug in my life again. Peer-pressure truly does suck at a young age.


----------



## atticus

Yeah, peer pressure can be tough, but it's just part of life and something that you have to learn to deal with while growing up.


----------



## patrick666

I've stated this before so pardon me for repeating but I was denied service when I admitted to doing shrooms 2 years prior to my application, the acceptable standard being 3 years. I don't think I've been so disappointed and I've pretty much kept clean in the subsequent 3 years that have follow with plans on staying that way. 

Peer pressure is difficult but it's as easy as saying "No, thanks bro." when your buddy offers you a joint. Remember, one puff and you got another 6 months to wait. I'm lucky in that I have the best, supportive, friends who understand my desire for to join the military and while I can't control their personal habits, I can control mine. 

Stay clean, exercise, keep informed. Doesn't sound too bad, does it.. 

Cheers


----------



## CEhopeful

I used to be a chronic pot smoker until about 2 months agos, Ive also done shrooms a few times, but I do not plan on telling them that I did them, because they only stay in your system for 2-3 days, thats it, and there is no such thing as a shroom flashback. I am going to tellt hem however that I did smoke pot,no point in lying about that.best of luck to any of you who wish for a lifestyle change, IM in the same boat as you and hope we can all get where we want, without  having our stupid decisions haunt us.


----------



## kincanucks

_Ive also done shrooms a few times, but I do not plan on telling them that I did them, _ 

Excellent, then you will be a loser once again.


----------



## George Wallace

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> I used to be a chronic pot smoker until about 2 months agos, Ive also done shrooms a few times,....



Have you listened at all to anything you've been told?   Been watching you post, here and in other threads, and can only shake my head in disbelief.     Detoxify your brain man.


----------



## paracowboy

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> Ive also done shrooms a few times, but I do not plan on telling them that I did them,


there it is, troops: the reason it's called Dope.


----------



## Danjanou

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> , Ive also done shrooms a few times, but I do not plan on telling them that I did them,



Hate to break it you there Cheech but you kind of just did. 8)


----------



## Jungle

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> I used to be a chronic pot smoker until about 2 months agos, Ive also done shrooms a few times, but I do not plan on telling them that I did them, because they only stay in your system for 2-3 days, thats it, and there is no such thing as a shroom flashback. I am going to tellt hem however that I did smoke pot,no point in lying about that.best of luck to any of you who wish for a lifestyle change, IM in the same boat as you and hope we can all get where we want, without   having our stupid decisions haunt us.


Stupid decisions haunt us for the rest of our lives. I can only congratulate you on your decision to quit using illegal drugs. *However*... I hope you will also be mature enough to accept the consequences of your past lifestyle.


----------



## patrick666

> Hate to break it you there Cheech but you kind of just did.



Shhhhhhhh.....  ;D

I tot I saw a recwoota... 

Cheers


----------



## CEhopeful

well patrickH I guess Im screwed since you dont even know who I am....siily fellow.Dont worry, Im not some burnout waiting to waste a fellow canadian as soon as I get ac7 in my hands. I want to serve my country and work with, and if I have to fight alongside fellow countrymen and women. I find this forum laughable at best, Im here for answers and support, not some idiot to tell me Im a burn out, Ill wait for the drill seargents to give me shit and get me down, Im not going tolet anyoen on here discourage me, Im done with this site, nothing but BS. maybe we will meet up on tour a few years form now.

cheers


----------



## Island Ryhno

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> maybe we will meet up on tour a few years form now.



I hope not, and later troll.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Quote,
_Im done with this site, nothing but BS_

Just give me the word, sunshine,..... the light is green, your on the ramp, and my finger is poised above the "go" button....


----------



## marshall sl

Hit the green light Bruce!!!


----------



## KevinB

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> Im done with this site, nothing but BS.


 :

No loss.


----------



## Kat Stevens

I'll miss you, but then, my sights are a bit off...


----------



## J.R.

I think doper will be just fine ... just because he can't handle constructive critism from Army.ca postings shouldn't mean that he can't take it in the nice, gentle, loving, pampering environment of Basic :-*.   Lots of luck keeping it together pal ... I wish there was some method to guarantee these guys do not get in.   Knew a few when I was in and man ... it usually came back to haunt them in a big way ...   :blotto:


----------



## George Wallace

I hear the new 'Club Ed' is nice any time of the year.  Ran into a Medic this summer who works there.  He used to go around the Unit UMS, prior to his OT, with rubber gloves doing 'Proctology' jokes.....I wonder?  ^-^


----------



## CEhopeful

well, maybe I should keep posting, hold my head high, take it like a man. I am going to get in, I quit drugs, I can certainley take a few harsh words, I can take a lot of harsh words, I will wait as long as I have to to get into the CF, I am dedicated and I have put far too much time into my body and my mind preparing for the day I am called up to go to basic training, to let it go to waste.I get pumped up just thinkign about clmbing obstacles and crawling through the mud while getting screamed at, and seriously I cant wait.I am going to prove to myself and everyone else that I can do it, and I will do it,not only has your criticism motivated me to work harder to reach my goal of joining the military, it has also made me realaize sometimes you gotta walk rigth throught shit to learn and in the end youll become a stronegr better person.


----------



## Danjanou

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I'll miss you, but then, my sights are a bit off...



Kat, you owe me a large double double. I just spewed mine all over the keyboard when I read that 8)


----------



## Kat Stevens

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Kat, you owe me a large double double. I just spewed mine all over the keyboard when I read that 8)



Submit a report of loss/damage up through the COC, along with receipt, witness statements, and any other pertinent documentation.  Expect reply or reimbursement no earlier than FY 06, due to high volume of loss due to hilarity claims this FY.

Kat   ;D


----------



## Bradboy

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> well, maybe I should keep posting, hold my head high, take it like a man. I am going to get in, I quit drugs, I can certainly take a few harsh words, I can take a lot of harsh words, I will wait as long as I have to to get into the CF, I am dedicated and I have put far too much time into my body and my mind preparing for the day I am called up to go to basic training, to let it go to waste.I get pumped up just thinking about climbing obstacles and crawling through the mud while getting screamed at, and seriously I cant wait.I am going to prove to myself and everyone else that I can do it, and I will do it,not only has your criticism motivated me to work harder to reach my goal of joining the military, it has also made me realize sometimes you gotta walk rig th through crap to learn and in the end you'll become a stronger better person.



   It's good to be motivated like you are but like someone else said, you need to pay the consequences of your previous lifestyle. You're not doing any favours for yourself or the army by lying to them about your past drug use. Why not just be honest, wait the required amount of time, and then continue on with your application? Trust me you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself when you've been clean for a few years and you know your being honest with the recruiters when you say, "I'm totally clean." And I'm sure the recruiters will respect you a whole lot more for being honest with them. If you want to be a member of the CF buddy it's time you learn what characteristics a member must possess. And a liar isn't one of them. Good luck in your endeavours.


----------



## P-Free

CEhopeful said:
			
		

> I used to be a chronic pot smoker until about 2 months agos, Ive also done shrooms a few times, but I do not plan on telling them that I did them, because they only stay in your system for 2-3 days, thats it, and there is no such thing as a shroom flashback. I am going to tellt hem however that I did smoke pot,no point in lying about that.best of luck to any of you who wish for a lifestyle change, IM in the same boat as you and hope we can all get where we want, without   having our stupid decisions haunt us.



Dudette, if you tell 'em you did whacky tabacky 2 months ago they'll give you a size 9 up the arse and tell you to come back in 4 months..


----------



## Bradboy

HAHA.... how does he plan to radio in coordinates to his artillery or air defence if he can't even do simple math?

" Echo Tango, this is Lima Oscar. I need close air support at (insert coordinates). Drop fifty!" "Ohh god run boys run!!!" It burns, it burns!!!"


----------



## patrick666

Well CEhopeful, you've got some advice about the harsh reality of the standpoint CF takes on prior drug use. You're on to a good start so keep it that way. It's up to you on how you want to head these words of wisdom. For better or for worse. Best of luck. 

Cheers


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

_I think doper will be just fine ... just because he can't handle constructive critism from Army.ca postings shouldn't mean that he can't take it in the nice, gentle, loving, pampering environment of Basic .  Lots of luck keeping it together pal ... I wish there was some method to guarantee these guys do not get in. _  

Well said Alter Ego.


----------



## J.R.

_*Homer: Look Marge, you don't know what it's like -- I'm the one out there every day putting his ass on the line. And I'm not out of order! You're out of order! The whole freakin' system is out of order! You want the truth? You want the truth?! You can't HANDLE the truth! 'Cause when you reach over and put your hand into a pile of goo that was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do! Forget it, Marge, it's Chinatown!*_


_*Homer's brain: Use reverse psychology.
Homer: Oh, that sounds too complicated.
Homer's brain: Okay, don't use reverse psychology.
Homer: Okay, I will!*_

Welcome back to the thread CEhopeful! ;D


----------



## CEhopeful

:


----------



## Danjanou

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Submit a report of loss/damage up through the COC, along with receipt, witness statements, and any other pertinent documentation.   Expect reply or reimbursement no earlier than FY 06, due to high volume of loss due to hilarity claims this FY.
> 
> Kat     ;D



Way too complicated for this poor retired gravel tech there. I'll make you a counter offer. Buy me a new one and I'll loan you my sight adjustment tool.

Oh BTW Cheech managed to get this little piece of info for you just in case we're too mean here.

Centre Recruitment Legion Etrangere
Quartier Lecourbe
1, rue d'Ostende
67000 Strasbourg
Alsace France
TEL : (33) 03 88 61 53 33


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

and with that along with a hundred other drug threads,......thats a wrap.


----------



## captainblinky

I don't know where to start but I really want to be in the Army, specifically Infantry.   I already did a search and definitely read some confident crushers or something along the lines of that.   I already handed in my papers and I'm waiting for the call for my aptitude test etc but I'm not worried about anything really except my medical history which is the only thing that can hold me back of countinueing further in the Army.   Oh yeah, I was planning to go career as I'm not gonna go to college or university.

I actually never been open about 1 thing on this list and probley wouldn't if wasnt for the internet.   

What I really want to know is how much should I tell them about my medical history before they go themselfs to check.   I'm assuming they get all the records on everytime I walked into a walking clinic and what not, right?.

Things I'd like to mention are

-I reported chest pain, I had all the tests done and everything was fine and the conclusion was because of indigestion which is gone and no more i get this problem

-I reported foot pain (everytime if I was doing a physical activity) (x-ray and ultrasound) and ankle pain (happened a lot less than my feet but nevertheless, I reported it) (x-ray) and everything showed up negative.   The conclusion was because I was overweight which was true.   I still need to slim done like 20 pounds but yeah, I did a self test and I'm able to get by just barely but I probley wont get a call for a physical fitness test for probley about another month so that gives me time to get better.

-I had Pilonidal disease.   I had that taken care of.   If you dont know what it is, please look it up cause I don't feel like explaining it.

-I had ingrown toenails and I had this taken care of also.

-The last thing that I hate to admit is that I suffered from depression.   I got help and all that.

I have to admit, that's a hefty list and to be honest, I myself don't think I will get accepted but it never hurts to try tho.

So my question is, should I tell them all that at the medical examination and if not, what should I exclude.

Please no rude replies like your not fit for the army etc because that's for the Army to decide, not you.   Answers and opinions are welcomed tho.


----------



## Da_man

Dude calm down, this is nothing serious.   The only thing you might want to talk about during your medical is your Pilonidal thing.  You dont need to be "perfect". Do you have anything that could keep you from running heck of a lot? No? then your fine.


----------



## beach_bum

You must answer all questions honestly, including about your past depression.  They will then determine whether or not you are fit.  You are very right in that no one on this board can make the decision as to your fitness.  That will be decided through recruiting.  Good luck.


----------



## fleeingjam

Yeah Dude, just have the test done know harm in doing so. The med staff will see if you are fit for the job and let you know. But you must answer every question if honesty because i remember some thing in bold from my app.
*
" NOTICE

It is a serious offence to knowingly provide false information on enrollment. If convicted, penalties under the National Defence Act may include up to 2 years imprisonment and / or release from the Canadian Forces"*

- No harm ever came from trying.
- Good Luck
- Usman


----------



## dearryan

First of all, Welcome to the Forums, ;D

Second, take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard .

NO ONE is medically perfect man. I have gone into the hospital/clinic for various reasons, from a piece of re bar through my arm, to a piece of bark under my "wee little finger". They were years ago, and common sense dictates that they are not applicable to the CF.  I wouldn't imagine the RC staff has the time to review your medical HISTORY (which I don't think they do anyways, correct me if I'm wrong) in that much detail. They conduct one themselves and they definitely review that one.  What you HAVE to do is be honest with them. Answer all their questions and disclose any aliments that are applicable. If a recruit were to hide something from them it will surface one day. Not saying that you would not give them full disclosure, but it happens. 

As for the loose weight concern....who doesn't want to shed a few pounds. Start running! (assuming the chest pain thing was indeed gas  You are going to have to anyway. All the best man.

R


----------



## captainblinky

Thanks guy .   I really appreicate the help as you can see I'm stuck in a predicament which I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

I guess I will just tell them everything.   I'll bring the x-ray results with me too whether it has any impact or not but yeah, whatever happens happens and I'll just take it as it goes.

Yeah, the chest pain was from gas which has gone away.


----------



## Springroll

I think you will do fine when it comes time for your medical. 

If all your tests came up showing that there was nothing seriously wrong, then just tell them that. They need to know the truth.

I also sympathise with you on your pilonidal issues as my husband just underwent surgery on Monday to remove two of them. He is now running on morphine.


----------



## canada22

i have my medical on Thursday and I was just wondering what is involved. Is it a full out examination? or is it giving a medical history, eye exam that sort of thing? just wanting to know what to look forward to! ;D


----------



## alexpb

It's pretty straight forward. It took me like 15-20 mins to complete.

What exactly was is involved in mine:

Fill out a form (asks you if you have "so-and-so". Check yes/no type of deal)
Go over the form with the medic, make sure everything is correct.
Strip to your boxers, the medic checks out your reflexes, flexibility and stuff
Pee in a cup
check your hearing
check your eyesight

that was all mine included.


----------



## 23007

alexpb said:
			
		

> It's pretty straight forward. It took me like 15-20 mins to complete.
> 
> What exactly was is involved in mine:
> 
> Fill out a form (asks you if you have "so-and-so". Check yes/no type of deal)
> Go over the form with the medic, make sure everything is correct.
> Strip to your boxers, the medic checks out your reflexes, flexibility and stuff
> Pee in a cup
> check your hearing
> check your eyesight
> 
> that was all mine included.




What?! No hernia test?!?! A little "turn your head and cough"?


----------



## alexpb

No, sorry.

Hope you didn't have youe hopes up!


----------



## McAllister

DO NOT work out or have sex before the exam. Either in the evening before or that morning. Any physical stress may cause microhematuria (trace amounts of red blood cells in urine) It doesnt mean anything, alot of people get that afterwards, but they'll interpret it as prostate cancer or something just to eliminate you from being recruited. Its almost as if they wanna prevent you from serving. Be careful.


----------



## 23007

alexpb said:
			
		

> No, sorry.
> 
> Hope you didn't have youe hopes up!



I had to do it when I joined! what a pile of crock...


----------



## Weiner

I don't know about that Hernia thing...

I didn't have to drop trou, but for some reason, when my brother did the medical a week later (2 weeks ago), he had to get the ol' hernia test even though it says on the medical sheets that it doesn't need to be done.


----------



## CallOfDuty

Yeah, I got the ole' turn your head and cough too.....................I was surprised becuase they do say on paper that they will not perform a genital inspection.   So when he said drop 'em, I was like "huh"?....................then I realized he was checking for hernia, and not doing an actual " genital inspection".
  Cheers all
Steve


----------



## old medic

McAllister said:
			
		

> .... they'll interpret it as prostate cancer or something just to eliminate you from being recruited. Its almost as if they wanna prevent you from serving. Be careful.



This is incorrect.  

The urine is tested using a standard dip stick test.  A strip of paper will be dipped in, and will react with and change colour if there is blood present (among other values).  It's a simple blood present or not present answer.  If there is blood, the reason why will be investigated, or the test can be re-done.

The test does not give any sort of diagnosis.


----------



## MattL

I went for my medical around a month ago.  

In addition to: 


> Fill out a form (asks you if you have "so-and-so". Check yes/no type of deal)
> Go over the form with the medic, make sure everything is correct.
> Strip to your boxers, the medic checks out your reflexes, flexibility and stuff
> Pee in a cup
> check your hearing
> check your eyesight



They also take weight and height measurements, and test colour vision (reading numbers off Ishihara plates).  They sent me to get an ECG, blood test, full urinalysis (pee in another cup) and an ophthalmologist's report.  The last four were specific to my MOC choices (pilot), though, so depending on what you're applying for, your medical will be different.

No hernia test for me, either.

I was listening to (loud) music in the car on the way to the recruiting center. That's a BAD idea as it turns out, though.  You should avoid noises beforehand for the hearing test.

Matt

edit: Figured i should say what my MOC choice was for info


----------



## Warthor

I talked to a couple people about the medical exam and they said tahts its pretty straight forward nothing to get to worried about unless you have something major I you have major concerns or questions talk to a recruiter.

Cheers

Chris


----------



## visitor

Don't they take your blood pressure?


----------



## MattL

visitor said:
			
		

> Don't they take your blood pressure?



Yes, they definitely do... forgot about that one.  They do other basic things that you'd get in a routine medical too... listen to your heart and lungs with a stethoscope, check out your eyes and ears, etc.

Like Warthor said, it's pretty straight forward.

Matt


----------



## alexpb

oops yeah i forgot those 3 things

Add: take blood pressure, take your weight, and take your height.

Oh and for the hearing test i did really good on it even though in the room i was in there was a vent right above the seat i was in. Even though you wear those headphones with the rubber on the sides that go right onto your ears, i could still hear the stupid vent going crazy. I still passed it easily though...

Just thought i'd add that for a personal story


----------



## kcdist

Here's a question....

I have a friend that is interested in joining.

He has not only used cannabis marijuana, but also cocaine, crack cocaine, speed, ecstasy, crystal meth and magic mushrooms. In addition to using, he was also the neighborhood dial-a-doper. His family runs a brothel, for which he is deeply involved. For a steady source of income, he also runs a successful sports book on the side.

The aforementioned is not my concern though. Here's the problem...Will the fact that his great uncle once served as a Liberal MP affect his chances of a successfull enrollment?


----------



## aesop081

OMG,

what is it whith the drug thing the last few days......

Shake your head, what do you hear ?


----------



## beach_bum

Is this a joke?


----------



## kincanucks

A ex Infantry Captain?  Not really demonstrated by that dumb ass post is it?


----------



## Infanteer

Well, I guess the key question is whether he has good knowledge of the trade he wants to join - it may make up for the fact that he is a felon junkie....


----------



## acclenticularis

I'm with beach_bum ... this has to be a joke ... :


----------



## GO!!!

It's either a joke or someone has been a wee bit untruthful on his profile.

Really, the "my friend was wondering" line kind of went out in Junior high, making me think that you are'nt quite as old as you claim to be.

As for a "sports book" why? Gambling on sporting events is legal in Canada.

Finally, I did lots of drugs before joining the army, as long as you tell them what, when, and for how long, it is'nt a big deal, the permanent FX will show up in the medical anyway.

Now how about you put the pipe away and tell us how old you really are, 'cuz I'm willing to bet your're a cadet who's been doing alot of drugs, and now are worried about applying for the regs or militia.  ^-^


----------



## Gunner

I don't think this is going anywhere and I am locking it. Let me know if there is any reason to open it.


----------



## Chauhan

casus belli said:
			
		

> u never take off ur boxers...
> if u can't touch ur toes thats fine, they just want to see that u can streatch all ur muscles..
> u have to walk around on ur toes, then on ur heals, look up, look left, basically just move every part of ur body so they can check, stuff like that
> 
> when i was doing the push-ups i stoped at 19 and he told me to keep going till i can't do them anymore




I searched and this was the closest answer I could find.. im 6'3 going for my medical on Jan 17th this upcoming tuesday and I can't touch my toes i can go upto my ankle if it doesn't matter if u can touch your toes could someone confirm that? if it's just to see that we can stretch our muslces.


----------



## polo

My medical didn't include stretching but they pushed my head one way and I had to push the opposite (to see if I had a strong neck?). They didn't make us stretch or anything either. Physical was go until can't go no more.


----------



## Jaxson

Bobby147 said:
			
		

> Fogpatrol, Running part is checked through Step Test. Please check the DND recruitment website for more information.
> 
> I have a question for other people who have passed Physical Test....
> 
> How much time it might take (approximately) for Physical Test ???  I have to take break from work....  may be I will take half day off.



When i was there it took about an hour but there was 5 other people going at the exact same time so he had to do use one by one (one of us did push ups, then the next until done, then we did sit ups.. so on)

"One more question for the people who have passed Physical Test.

Did you eat anything (light breakfast), before you went to Physical Test, or went there empty stomach as you have to do Sit-ups too....."

I ate a full breakfest and it didnt effect me, i had bacon, eggs, toast, milk and an orange, mind you i left my house at 7am to make the drive and get their on time for the CFAT. Just eat a normal breakfest that will give you the energy you need, dont cut yourself short.


----------



## polo

We did sit-ups in pairs, as many people as could fit on the floor space at one time and push-ups one by one.


----------



## fleeingjam

And most importantly.....(Drum Roll) RELAX dont get over stressed over it.

- Good Luck


----------



## shoebox_stereo

well today just aint my day,

I applied for CG 2 months ago and did my aptitude test today which I passed with high scores. when they passed the drug form around, I entered all relevent information, not wanting to lie.

... sad to say, i've been denied service with the CF until a policy change occurs as i have been told.

quick run down of my history, from 15-17 I went through an experimental stage, or howver you would call it. pot a few times a week, ecstacy maybe once a week, and speed occasionally. I might not be enthusiastic about my past, but its in the past, and what is said is done. Anyways im 21 now, in university and never touched anything since those times.

CF officer told me that because of my past use, i will never be able to get into CF unless their drug policy changes, but i have read here and there on this site that some people have been able to get in after being 3 years clean (which i then qualify for) and recieve some sort of doctor note, medical drug test or something along those lines...

can anyone give me some advice on who i should contact, and if honestly i even have a chance getting into the CF?

my summer is ruined, and im not quite sure what i am going to do now with future employment, as this was crutial to my resume for future law school

thanks,
kevin


----------



## double0three

That's weird... the info that I heard around here on the forums is that as long as you're clean from most drugs for 6 months, and all hallucinogens for something like 1 year (or maybe 2) then you're clear to go.  But maybe there are different rules if you have used a considerable amount of drugs for a considerable amount of time???


----------



## shoebox_stereo

see thats what confuses me aswell.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/5019/3_e.asp

this is the updated canadian forces drug policy, it does not state anywhere though about previous use, and times to wait for / eligibility.


----------



## aesop081

Past catches up with you.....

Good luck flipping burgers at Wendy's

EDIT : BTW, the link you put up as a reference applies to serving CF members......not you



> This is an order that applies to officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces ("CF members").


----------



## shoebox_stereo

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Past catches up with you.....
> 
> Good luck flipping burgers at Wendy's
> 
> EDIT : BTW, the link you put up as a reference applies to serving CF members......not you



i'm pretty sure i asked for advise on what to do, not comments. if you have something negative why dont you just withhold from saying it? its evidently not assisting me.

ok well thanks for clarifying that. can you give me some advise on _where_ to look to find information regarding prospective members and policy towards them? or do you just want a drink with that?


----------



## aesop081

shoebox_stereo said:
			
		

> i'm pretty sure i asked for advise on what to do,



Which i did :


			
				aesop081 said:
			
		

> Good luck flipping burgers at Wendy's




But i will look for more info just because i'm in an helping mood today and i feel the need to do your reaserch for you


----------



## JBP

aesop081, that was pretty rude and ignorant... Obviously he's already being burned by his past he doesn't need you to add some stupid comment... C'mon, I'm sure you've been on this website long enough to know you should just poke someone like that when he wasn't being rude or anything...

You were trolling and that's all there is too it.

To shoebox_stereo... I've had a buddy try to get into the reserves with me back when I applied and he was denied on the grounds he used mushrooms about a year ago. They told him he'd have to wait at least 3 years fully clean before he could apply, so he had to wait another 2 years basically. He didn't bother, he gave up. 

For you my friend, I would suggest contacting maybe a different recruiting centre or calling the recruiting line, that 1-800 # advertised everywhere. Go to http://www.dnd.ca , then look to the right where all the menu options are and click on recruiting and find the #.... I think there's got to be a way you could get in, even if you do have to take some tests to prove you're clean as you say you are. 

Again, I'm certainly no recruiter but give it a try. It's worth pushing a bit if you want it, maybe PM Kincanucks, he's a user on here who IS a Canadian Forces recruiter, very intelligent and resourceful person, knowledgable about his job to say the least.

Best of luck,
Joe


----------



## aesop081

Kincanucks may come along sooner or later and have the answer.  I looked on the Cf website but to na avail.......maybe on the DIN when i get back to work


----------



## double0three

Wendys burgers are particularily declicious, so I resent that!  

Also, the guy looks like he's trying to turn his life around, lets go easy on him.....  Everyone deserves a 2nd chance.

I'd say the best thing to do at the moment is to reapply next year.  Say you've continued to be clean and have no plans to ever return to that lifestyle.  Also... perhaps there is an appeals process of sorts for this year, but I'm not sure if that is worth it or not.  Also getting doctor's notes and whatnot may help, to show you are determined and if a doctor gives a clean bill, saying that the past use will have no bearing on your future service that could carry some weight.  Just some ideas.


----------



## JBP

Well.. I think I knew where aesop081 was comming from though... I suppose he wasn't being that mean really, just extremely blunt as we learn to be in the military sometimes...

But he's just a civvy for now!  

I'll second that Wendy's rocks, but so does Burger King!!!

Hey, forget both those, how about Harveys??? Now I'm hungry.... Too bad I can't eat that crap very often! My body has a tendency to love storing ultra-fatty foods... I'm blessed like that so I have to work my a$$ off to keep it down!


----------



## Gunnar

do a search on "drugs" and "recruiting" and you will find a plethora of threads which cover this topic.  I think persistence is the order of the day, plus complete abstinence from drugs during the period of your persistence.  (and forever after would be good too...)

Hope this helps


----------



## double0three

Well damnit now I'm hungry.  Well I'll stop hijacking this thread now.  But I could still definately go for a burger right now.  

EDIT:  I second what Gunnar said.


----------



## ArmyRick

Shoebox_stereo, I applaud the fact that you overcame drugs. or just stopped using them. I hope you are being honest with yourself and the CF. Try applying in a year or two. I can not remember the exact policy (I don't touch anything but booze or caffeine from coffee), but I was sure if you were clean for awhile, they might let you in. However I am not too sure if there are certain drugs that strictly keep you out if you ever used them. Inquire and follow it up. In the mean time, best of luck with whatever endever you choose and stay clean.  I do appreciate your willingness to serve, I wish every Canadian had that sense of patriotism.


----------



## shoebox_stereo

R031 Pte Joe said:
			
		

> ... maybe PM Kincanucks, he's a user on here who IS a Canadian Forces recruiter, very intelligent and resourceful person, knowledgable about his job to say the least...



hey its cool about what aesop081 said, im a little edgy, web forums are always a little jaded  > so it all evens out.

ill wait for tommorow to call, and give this topic some time to digest with people and get some advise (so that I have a better idea of what to talk about to a recruiter tommorow)

I think what really bugs me is that I have considered for the longest time this as something of my past. getting into university is definitly a "life changing" direction for someone with this kind of background. I think im just extremly outraged that this is the major deciding factor, and my academic and volenteer commitments stand small in comparison to it.

... ya i have done search's on this kinda topic, but i havnt found a "concrete" policy or regulation... its more hearsay, and that never holds in court.

if its an issue with abstaining, i will gladly sign my name in blood, i became disgusted with the drugs when i quit, and even more now. "going back" should not be an issue..

***modify***
maybe it is an issue with the "type" of drugs, and not the duration. the recruiter seemed reluctant to believe me when i said i have no criminal record, and never had issues with law enforcement. maybe this is more a game of credibility, then the past

thanks,
kevin


----------



## zipperhead_cop

shoebox_stereo said:
			
		

> quick run down of my history, from 15-17 I went through an experimental stage, or howver you would call it. pot a few times a week, ecstacy maybe once a week, and speed occasionally. I might not be enthusiastic about my past, but its in the past, and what is said is done. Anyways im 21 now, in university and never touched anything since those times.



I don't know what the CF regs are, but from what you said, that is going to look pretty bad.  "I smoked a joint a couple of times" sounds a lot better than "within two years I ingested cannabis marihuana approximately 312 times, ingested over 100 tabs of ecstasy and possibly took speed up to fifty times".  Hell, you might not have been doing drugs for a few years because you were in jail?  Recruiters are trained to make assessments of people and character.  Add to that most pot heads that I have come across never stop using.  They just make lame tobacco smoker-type disclaimers like "oh, I just burned a couple of blunts with some old buds, no biggie, dude".  You have profiled yourself as a person with an addictive personality.  If you are truly off the drugs and will never touch them again, good for you and your health.  As far as the CF goes, though, you may be beat.  Doesn't mean don't keep trying, though.


----------



## kincanucks

shoebox_stereo said:
			
		

> hey its cool about what aesop081 said, im a little edgy, web forums are always a little jaded  > so it all evens out.
> 
> ill wait for tommorow to call, and give this topic some time to digest with people and get some advise (so that I have a better idea of what to talk about to a recruiter tommorow)
> 
> I think what really bugs me is that I have considered for the longest time this as something of my past. getting into university is definitly a "life changing" direction for someone with this kind of background. I think im just extremly outraged that this is the major deciding factor, and my academic and volenteer commitments stand small in comparison to it.
> 
> ... ya i have done search's on this kinda topic, but i havnt found a "concrete" policy or regulation... its more hearsay, and that never holds in court.
> 
> if its an issue with abstaining, i will gladly sign my name in blood, i became disgusted with the drugs when i quit, and even more now. "going back" should not be an issue..
> 
> ***modify***
> maybe it is an issue with the "type" of drugs, and not the duration. the recruiter seemed reluctant to believe me when i said i have no criminal record, and never had issues with law enforcement. maybe this is more a game of credibility, then the past
> 
> thanks,
> kevin



PM inbound.  Mods suggest you shut this puppy down before someone gets hurt.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

and on that note........

As always if someone has something relevant to add contact a Moderator.


----------



## patton13

ok, i have researched threads on this but none relate to my case.
I want to join the reserves while in college in the fall and I am worried about the drug testing. I have not dont pot in a year and i dont care to use it ever again. But my problem is I had a few to many one night at a party and I guess i tried some cocaine. Is this goin to show up in a couple months in the testing, and should i just admit to this? It will come back to screw me wont it..


----------



## Kat Stevens

If you lie about it, it will bite you in the arse BIG TIME.  How long ago? once only?  Everybody makes mistakes (said the posterboy), it's all in how you let them effect you. Be honest.


----------



## patton13

yeah i know i shoudn't lie about it, but yeah it was only once, but it was only last weekend. So im guessing id go for testing somtime in july or august so im sure it would be out of me by then.


----------



## patton13

Do you think this will keep me out?


----------



## Kat Stevens

Doutbful, but again, be honest about it.  It should be well out of your system by the time you test, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.


----------



## patton13

yeah thats what im worried about, becuase ive read other threads on here in similiar situations where they said they were honest but had to wait six months or somethin before trying to get in, i dont wanna wait that long


----------



## Kat Stevens

Waiting is part of the game.  If you don't have the patience now,  you'll go crazy later.  EVERYBODY in the army waits.


----------



## patton13

how would they know if i did use it anyway, do i take a lie detector test, if it doesnt show up i my system


----------



## Kat Stevens

Anyone else want to tag in?  The pulse in my eye is starting up again.....


----------



## paracowboy

patton13 said:
			
		

> how would they know if i did use it anyway, do i take a lie detector test, if it doesnt show up i my system


that, right there, tells me you intend to continue using that poisonous shit, despite what the Law, QR&Os, and common sense says.

If it's me misreading the post, then don't worry about it, and do as Kat has told you.

If I'm reading that post correctly: Don't. Enlist.


----------



## Franko

If you used it, fine. Admit it up front and don't touch it again.

It's better to get it out in the open. The tests may or may not find it, but at least you'll have a clean conscience...which a better start than lying.

If you do there will be ramifications to your actions while you are in the CF when they find out.....oh BTW, they always do sooner or later.

Regards


----------



## Haggis

patton13 said:
			
		

> how would they know if i did use it anyway, do i take a lie detector test, if it doesnt show up i my system



Depending on what trade you apply for and if you're enrolling as an officer or NCM, you could be subject to a very detailed security screening, including a background investigation by some habitually suspicious people from CSIS.

Come clean, now, before you get found out later.



			
				paracowboy said:
			
		

> that, right there, tells me you intend to continue using that poisonous crap, despite what the Law, QR&Os, and common sense says.



+1 big time.  If that's the case, I don't want you in my Army.


----------



## Kat Stevens

I was initially very patient, even though I absolutely despise druggies.  However, it seems that you are just going to keep re-phrasing your question until someone gives you an answer you like. So, in the interest of time saving, here you go:  Hell no, c'mon in!  Just make sure you don't shoot up for an hour before you go in, wouldn't want you to sign on the date line by mistake.  Other than that, we're just like the Cripps, lots of dope, less firepower, better crack dens. Hope this helps, and welcome aboard, you get jumped in on Tuesday.


----------



## patton13

no, thats not the case at all, i wont ever do it again. Im just curious as to how they would find that out, there not the CIA, there the Canadian army. But i will come out and tell them


----------



## medicineman

Ve haf vayz of finding zeez sings out!! >

MM


----------



## patton13

yeah i guess..


----------



## Zertz

You have a drug use profile (Everything from chocolate bars and soda pop to crystal meth and cocaine) to fill out. As has been said, don't lie and don't tell half the truth. I do not pretend to be an expert but how long have you been off any illicit drugs? Best bet I think in my un-expert opinion is to go for character in that you're better than a drug user today, correct me if I'm wrong though guys.


----------



## double0three

Here's the deal:

Like Zertz said, when you are doing your medical testing, they will give you a form with every type of drug imaginable (and tons I certain have never heard of) and they want to know exactly what all you tried, how much, how long ago, etc.

In terms of a urine test (the only way they test for drugs, and that test is primarily for other reason) I assume cocaine only shows up for probably a few days, or maybe a few weeks.  I think pot is the only real drug that stays detectable in the system for an extended period of time, but I'm not really sure on that.

Anyway,  its a good idea to be honest.  Because they *could* find out, and then your army career is over permanantely before it begun. Plus you can get into legal trouble for lying.  However if you are honest, say it was a one-time thing, a big mistake, you never plan on doing it again, then the worst that can happen is they ask you to re-apply in around 6 months or so.  I think they really prefer you to be completely clean for at least 6 months, just to prove you're in it for the long haul.  If you can't stop doing drugs for 6 months then the whole army thing probably won't go so well.

Anyway thats my 2 cents.


----------



## SeaRoom

The last reply is pushing the limits of what should be discussed in a public forum. Info regarding drugs and the recruiting processes is Protect B, and therefore treated as confidential.


----------



## double0three

Not entirely sure what it means to be 'Protected B', but sorry if I said something that I was not supposed to be said.


----------



## Trinity

double0three said:
			
		

> Not entirely sure what it means to be 'Protected B', but sorry if I said something that I was not supposed to be said.



I wouldn't worry about it.

If it was sensitive enough, the proper thing to do would have been to PM a mod and have
it removed, not openly chew you out in a forum.


----------



## Centurian1985

I'm not in the current recruiting sytem, so cant spill any Protected B info.  I do however, have extensive interviewing experience, so here's my input on your statements:

I have not dont pot in a year and i dont care to use it ever again. 
Normal. Welcome to the human race.
But my problem is I had a few to many one night at a party and I guess i tried some cocaine. 
ALARM! You went from using mary-ju-wanna 'once' to saying OK to a line of coke?  I smell serious BS factor here.  You would have to do some serious backpedaling to convince me that you are not a habitual drug user.  And the words 'I guess'; did you or didnt you? This is a sign of evasion.       
but yeah it was only once, but it was only last weekend.
ALARM! You admit knowing that the organization has a no-drugs policy and you want to join, yet you 'tried' coke 'once' anyway, and only a week ago?  The dial on the BS  olfactory detector in doing some crazy swinging back and forth.  Even if your statement is absolutely true this places serious doubt on your ability to apply common sense, especially when under the influence.  
how would they know if i did use it anyway, do i take a lie detector test, if it doesnt show up i my system
DOUBLE ALARM! Even though you claim that it would never happen again, you reply with 'how would they know?'.  This is a statement implying that you would not commit the same offense only if  there was a chance of your being detected.  This further implies that if you knew you could get away with it, you would contemplate doing it.  You forget, its not whether it will show up in your system, its about not using drugs because they are prohibited by law.
no, thats not the case at all, i wont ever do it again. 
Based on the preceding statements, I am extremely doubtful.  
Is this goin to show up in a couple months in the testing, and should i just admit to this? It will come back to screw me wont it..
I can see  the sweat dripping from your forehead...  
ive read other threads on here in similiar situations where they said they were honest but had to wait six months or somethin before trying to get in, i dont wanna wait that long
If you didnt want to wait that long, you should have exercised more self-control.  This is an important skill for a soldier.  
Im just curious as to how they would find that out, there not the CIA, there the Canadian army.
DOUBLE ALARM! Even after all you've been told you're still looking for a loophole.  This speaks volumes to a trained interviewer.  Mainly, you are still trying to figure out "how can I get away with it?" or "how can I beat the system?".   

As your analyst I recommend you take two glasses of fresh water, stay clean, and dont call for 180 mornings. 
People are not as stupid as you think, and neither is the CF recruiting sytem.  They can tell a lot about what you're thinking by your choice of words and questions!


----------



## munky99999

If you do get caught for THC. you might be able to appeal that. 

Absinthe has thc in it. Which is legal in Ontario at least. It also has a closely related chemical to thc. Which might show up as a positive. LCBO sells absinthe. But not the thc ones. Though its still possible to get.

Just. if you appeal and get in. they will probably be keeping an eye on you. so stay straight and drugs are bad MMMMkay.


----------



## Redeye

munky99999 said:
			
		

> If you do get caught for THC. you might be able to appeal that.
> 
> Absinthe has thc in it. Which is legal in Ontario at least. It also has a closely related chemical to thc. Which might show up as a positive. LCBO sells absinthe. But not the thc ones. Though its still possible to get.
> 
> Just. if you appeal and get in. they will probably be keeping an eye on you. so stay straight and drugs are bad MMMMkay.



The "active ingredient" in absinthe is thujone, which is not related at all to THC.  If you test positve for any drug, my bet is that your application basically is over.  If there's even a question about whether you're a dopehead, you don't deserve to join.


----------



## munky99999

Redeye said:
			
		

> The "active ingredient" in absinthe is thujone, which is not related at all to THC.  If you test positve for any drug, my bet is that your application basically is over.  If there's even a question about whether you're a dopehead, you don't deserve to join.


I definitely agree with you on all this and I also agree that if you indeed have done drugs you should be eligible for the military; but, if the person will go cold turkey or has I think they should have the opportunity. Which from other people on this forum, they have said they do give them another chance to prove they have gone cold turkey. This is why I prefer they do hair test instead of urine test. It’s much more accurate in terms of mistaken drug use.

from http://www.absinth.com/links/faq.html


> One of the main herbs in legitimate Absinthe is wormwood and its derivative essence thujone. Thujone is classified as a convulsant poison, NOT a drug, having a similar structure as T.H.C., the active chemical in cannabis. Both thujone and T.H.C. are terpenoids and have a similar molecular geometry and similar functional groups available for metabolism.



http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/absinthe/absinthe_faq.shtml


> Structural similarities between thujone (in its delta-3,4 enol form) and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC, the active component in marijuana) have led some to hypothesize that both substances have the same site of action in the brain (del Castillo et al 1975)



PS. I have never done a drug in my life. I simply am very interested in chemistry and biochemistry.


----------



## STING

Last march i applied to the CF and like many others got my dreams crushed when being honest about past drug use..
Last Dec. I made the worst mistake ever by trying ecstasy . The CF recruiting staff told me to reapply after 3 years   :-\ .. After alot of regret and reading on these forums i've decided to reapply after one year . I've recently paid for a drug screening to ensure I have no toxins in my body . The biomedical lab sent the screening results to my family physician and my physician has given me a letter of reference the basically says i'm physically healthy , in excellent shape and there is no chance of any drugs resurfacing in the future .. I also will enclose my personal letter of apology to the CF recruiting staff .. In the time between my applications i've also continued with my education .. When I last applied I had a grade 11 education now i'm in the process of completing my GED ..  There's nothing more important to me than a carear in the army and I hope my actions will show the recruiting staff i'm responsible enough to serve in the CF ..

Is there any chance of the recruiting staff re-opening my application ...  ?


----------



## beach_bum

STING said:
			
		

> The CF recruiting staff told me to reapply after 3 years   :-\ ..



I'm glad you have realized and regret your error.  You can try....though I wouldn't count on it.  Good luck.


----------



## gaspasser

Perseverance, my friend.  Getting out of the rut and going clean looks good on ya.


----------



## gnome123

Hard drugs suck.... if anything stick to mary-jane its not so hard on the body and doesnt contain rat poisoning. (also no chance of you to stop breathing).

Best of luck though.  :blotto:


(Edited by Moderator to strike out inappropriate advice.)


----------



## kincanucks

_The CF recruiting staff told me to reapply after 3 years   _ 

There is your answer.  No ifs, ands or buts.


----------



## gnome123

Ok... My friend hasn't applied yet but thinks joining the army is going to be a breeze.... I will admit he is a very surprisingly good runner for being such a heavy smoker. To tell the truth he is better at running then me.... But he hasn't worked on any of his strength, all though i think he could do the minimum.

He is applying for Infantry and has his Grade 10 just got now (failed a few times) and has a history of drug use... Anyways here are my questions because truthfully i wouldn't want to fight a war with him unless he changes a lot.  

1. Does the drug test detect pills that flush your system of previous drugs? and are they prohibited?
2. (he isn't the brightest) How well will he have to do on the aptitude to get in? (for infantry soldier)
3. Are their any tests or is it through the interview where they tell what kind of person you are and if your suitable for the job or to be in the Canadian forces for that matter.

I'm not trying to be mean or anything he is a good guy but i don't want to think that anyone can get into the army (which him and others are telling me because "their desperate") . Just Curious and if mod wants to delete this that's fine with me just i wanted someones opinion. Time will tell in the end.


----------



## McG

Have you been to our FAQ: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

All of your answers are there.


----------



## Elwood

Nice link. 

Your buddy will find out if they apply for the CF.


----------



## Elwood

Drugs and the CF don't mix. 

I clear the room whenever someones smoking ganja or other crap (it happens a lot in downtown Toronto). I don't want my medical to show "positive" on anything drug-related. If you want to joining the CF, you should avoid using drugs use... no ifs and or buts.


----------



## booted

> If you want to joining the CF, you should avoid using drugs use... no ifs and or buts.



Especially since you're here to represent your Country. Army and drugs does not go together.


----------



## geo

the fact that the CFRC people told you to wait 3 years is to ensure that you can stay clean for the whole 3 years, not just one.  Great to hear that you have stayed clean so far.... looking forward to seeing you in uniform in 2 years.

Cheers!


----------



## GUNS

STING, think of it this way. You want to be a part of a very close family, this family does not allow drug use. Not cool, when your partner is stoned during a firefight. Use the three years wisely, compile a excellent resume with good references and stay away from drugs and those who use drugs. If you are serious about your desire to join the military, this is your test. Good luck and there is a uniform here with your name tag on it.


----------



## GUNS

Grade 10( failed numerous times)

History of drug use.

Smokes like a chimney.

Have him call 1-800-WalMart









			
				gnome123 said:
			
		

> OK... My friend hasn't applied yet but thinks joining the army is going to be a breeze.... I will admit he is a very surprisingly good runner for being such a heavy smoker. To tell the truth he is better at running then me.... But he hasn't worked on any of his strength, all though i think he could do the minimum.
> 
> He is applying for Infantry and has his Grade 10 just got now (failed a few times) and has a history of drug use... Anyways here are my questions because truthfully i wouldn't want to fight a war with him unless he changes a lot.
> 
> 1. Does the drug test detect pills that flush your system of previous drugs? and are they prohibited?
> 2. (he isn't the brightest) How well will he have to do on the aptitude to get in? (for infantry soldier)
> 3. Are their any tests or is it through the interview where they tell what kind of person you are and if your suitable for the job or to be in the Canadian forces for that matter.
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean or anything he is a good guy but i don't want to think that anyone can get into the army (which him and others are telling me because "their desperate") . Just Curious and if mod wants to delete this that's fine with me just i wanted someones opinion. Time will tell in the end.


----------



## booted

If the army lets people like that 'in' the system .. we're screwed.
This is a profession. Not a 'let's try and see'.


----------



## STING

Well it means alot to have your support .. I still have to try anyway .. When I was a cadet long ago i had a Trg Officer from our reserve regiment that gave me some words of wisdom .... " Everyone makes mistakes , its the ones who make the same mistakes over who are the F****N IDIOTS .. "


----------



## SoF

booted said:
			
		

> If the army lets people like that 'in' the system .. we're screwed.
> This is a profession. Not a 'let's try and see'.



"If" ???  I'v seen plenty of recruits on bmq that should not have been sworn in. Some people are just slower than the average person. Others are ignorant of the rules and regulations and a few, out of sheer dumb luck, just managed to float under the radar and into the Canadian Forces.


----------



## cplcaldwell

Infantry soldiers don't need to have a PhD but they _need_ to be intelligent.

That is to say they need to be the kind of person who learns well, quickly and retains the learning.

You tell us, 'failed grade ten several times'     I ask ... learns well?... learns quickly?..... retains learning?....

The stereotype of the dumb infanteer is a false one, don't let it fool you, or your friend.

(For the record, I'm not infantry ... I'm probably not intelligent enough... but I'm real good edumacated ;D)


----------



## gnome123

Well i guess i am smart enough because im just waiting on my medical forms to be filled out then i just got to wait for the call. Makes me feel better not everyone is accepted. Thanks


----------



## Kat Stevens

If everyone was excepted, we wouldn't have an army at all.     8)


----------



## George Wallace

I'm just curious......is that excepted, exempted, or accepted?


----------



## Elwood

Shirtless soldiers on E aren't good to have around either.


----------



## gnome123

My mistake.   :brickwall:


----------



## BulletProof

cplcaldwell said:
			
		

> Infantry soldiers don't need to have a PhD but they _need_ to be intelligent.
> 
> That is to say they need to be the kind of person who learns well, quickly and retains the learning.
> 
> You tell us, 'failed grade ten several times'     I ask ... learns well?... learns quickly?..... retains learning?....
> 
> The stereotype of the dumb infanteer is a false one, don't let it fool you, or your friend.
> 
> (For the record, I'm not infantry ... I'm probably not intelligent enough... but I'm real good edumacated ;D)



It's not so much the intelligence rather the responsibility.  Infanteers have the largest responsibility on their shoulders due to the fact that they have to make tactical decisions in stressful situations that may result in death or serious injury.

Scenario:
You have a C7 in your hands and you see a woman with what appears to be a gun in their hands.  It's very dark out and you are telling this woman to stop but she doesn't understand what you are saying.  Is that a weapon she is pointing at you?  What do you do?  If you shoot and kill an unarmed woman, that's a terrible political issue that will reach the prime ministers level.  If you don't and she is intent on killing you, you will suffer serious injury or death.

The "dumb grunt" better not live up to their stereotype tonite or there is going to be hell to pay.

People in an infanteer position must be professional and responsible.  The entire country depends on it.


----------



## BulletProof

The best advice I could offer is to get your grade 12 and maybe work on an FAC.  

A good soldier should be able to shoot a firearm better than anyone he knows.  It will save your life.


----------



## gnome123

Yea well he got in... I'm disappointed but it won't distract me from keep working hard to be ready for the army's demands while he still smokes the weed and cig's. Hopefully he wont make it through BMQ or SQ but if he does i bet he will be a changed person. Still makes me wonder


----------



## FredDaHead

gnome123 said:
			
		

> Yea well he got in... I'm disappointed but it won't distract me from keep working hard to be ready for the army's demands while he still smokes the weed and cig's. Hopefully he wont make it through BMQ or SQ but if he does i bet he will be a changed person. Still makes me wonder



If he smokes weed, he won't even make it _TO_ BMQ and SQ.


----------



## exsemjingo

When your friend gets kicked out, let us know, and refer him to a hot-tar roofing company.
 :rofl:


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

> Yea well he got in...


 Tell me this doesn't happen often.

Addition: How many times did this guy lie to the Recruiters, MCC etc. about drug use? I was asked at the Recruiting Centre after completing the CFAT, again during my interview and we went over it a third time before I was sworn in....


----------



## Klc

If you've been sworn in, do you not have a responsibility to turn him in?


----------



## JesseWZ

I would not want to end up in the same unit in a combat situation with this person.


----------



## gnome123

ArtyMike said:
			
		

> Tell me this doesn't happen often.
> 
> Addition: How many times did this guy lie to the Recruiters, MCC etc. about drug use? I was asked at the Recruiting Centre after completing the CFAT, again during my interview and we went over it a third time before I was sworn in....



Im pretty sure he did but not like i was their... I know he took a bunch of detox pills before his drug test though.


----------



## Yrys

gnome123 said:
			
		

> detox pills



Wouldn't that beep on the drug test ?


----------



## George Wallace

A future "Hatless Dancer".  The NSI will track him down sooner or later.  He will enjoy DB.


----------



## gnome123

Klc said:
			
		

> If you've been sworn in, do you not have a responsibility to turn him in?



Do I? What credibility do i have though. Truthfully i want to, he is an adult who still thinks its enjoyable to vandalize & steal.
(haven't been sworn in due to medical)


----------



## Mithras

gnome123 said:
			
		

> Do I? What credibility do i have though. Truthfully i want to, he is an adult who still thinks its enjoyable to vandalize & steal.
> (haven't been sworn in due to medical)



Great, someone with sticky fingers and a bad attitude. I am tempted to ask some questions about this guy is so we can keep an eye out for the bugger but I suppose that wouldn't be right.


----------



## WannaBeFlyer

> ...he is an adult who still thinks its enjoyable to vandalize & steal.


His story gets better and better with each post...

Meh.


----------



## gnome123

Yea ill stop getting into it...


----------



## Sig_Des

Well, you've pretty much gotten as far into it without giving us buddy's name.

Think of it this way..

You've informed us, many still serving and some who have served, that our beloved organization, something that many view as their family, is in the process of being misled by an unsuitable and undesirable element, who we will train/train with, serve with, and command.

I don't know what your aim was in posting about buddy. If you wanted to warn us, ask us what you should do, or wanted us to do something.

Basically, as far as you're aware, you have knowledge of someone committing a crime, and fraudulently applying for on a Federal application (he had to have lied to apply if he does what you say he does).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that an accessory if you don't do anything?

I don't think appealing to buddy's sense of propriety will work so this one of the following will happen.

A) he will be caught, wether by your assistance or without.

B) You will do what is right, report him, and you're without a friend (not much of a good one, seems), and the CF will be without an undesirable

C) He will get through, continue his criminal activity, and not be caught

C) He will be caught after scraping through training, and will have wasted THOUSANDS of tax-dollars, training spots where others who were of a better caliber were denied, and many many man-hours of training.

D) He will get through, and do something that endangers or takes the safety or life of a fellow member, possibly one of US, and you will have to live with that for the entirety of YOUR life.

You know what's right, and what's wrong. The ball is in YOUR court. Many here can help you if you make a decision that's tough, many can guide you, and you can always go through career manager. But it's up to you.

Either way, from this point, I don't think open-source is the way to go.

I'm suggesting a lock-up on this one.


----------



## JesseWZ

+1 Des.


----------



## Cogger

Hey, i am interested in joining the reserves for the summer job. For the drug test, i was wondering how they take steroid use. I haven't taken them in over 3 months. If anyone knows how recruiters feel about steroids, please let me know all about it. 

thanks


----------



## Fyuri

Cogger said:
			
		

> If anyone knows how recruiters feel about steroids, please let me know all about it.



I could harbour a guess at this one... I'm far from any authority on this issue, but my personal advice, if it's still traceable, I'd wait at least a year... Just my suggestion, though.

-Fyuri


----------



## Shamrock

Steriods are controlled substances.


----------



## DylanL

Your fine.  Steroids are legal to own and use in Canada.  You just can't sell or manufacture them!


----------



## armyvern

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/services/health_promotion/engraph/factsheet_anabolicSteroid_e.asp


> Are anabolic steroids illegal? In Canada, anabolic steroids and their derivatives are considered "Controlled Substances" and as such it is illegal to manufacture, import, export or sell these substances. Canadian Forces members are not exempt from this legislation and this is further reiterated in the Canadian Forces Drug Control Program as outlined in CFAO 19-21. Despite all of the above, using anabolic steroids is not illegal.




Operative words in the above related to the CF?

CFAO 19-21: CF Drug Control Program

For specifics on that and your past steroid use and how it is applicable to recruiting, contact a Recruiting Centre.


----------



## George Wallace

Cogger

As you posted this question soon after registering, and then immediately left the site, I will take it that you did not read some of the information that would have helped you find this information, which has been discussed many times before and in turn answered.  

So, welcome to Army.ca. Here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.

*Army.ca Conduct Guidelines*: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions


Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


----------



## formerarmybrat23

hello i went into apply in 2005, and unlike some ppl i know told the whole truth on my drug sheet before my computer exam. needless to say this screwed me. I passed the computer test with flying clours but was then told i had to wait 3 yrs for the point the drug was taken to reapply. 
anyways that date isdone  in november 07. is it possible to restart the process now and be signed up to go for next winters basic or sooner? ive been dying to go and was really disappointed that my mistake would cost me so much time. Any views on this?


----------



## Quag

I think that it might have been a nice way of saying that they didn't want you at the time.

I know some friends whom admitted to using banned substances (one even put down a one time use of cocaine), and were still accepted.

Must be case by case.


----------



## Sig_Des

Quag said:
			
		

> I think that it might have been a nice way of saying that they didn't want you at the time.
> 
> I know some friends whom admitted to using banned substances (one even put down a one time use of cocaine), and were still accepted.
> 
> Must be case by case.



Quag, case by case based on the type of drug, timeframe when last used, etc. Different drugs give different timeframes as to when allowed to reapply. If they didn't want her due to any other reasons, they would have told her.

Formerarmybrat23, your best bet is to actually call your local recruiting center. They'll be the ones that can tell you for sure what you can and cannot do. What I suggest to you in the meantime, is make sure to pick up the forms, and get all the required information and documents. The information you put down in 2005 is almost 3 years out of date, and you should update all you have. Will make it easier to have everything ready.

Best of luck.


----------



## Franko

Go back after your time is done if you are still serious in applying. good luck in your endeavors.

Now onto another matter....




Welcome to Army.ca. Here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.

*Army.ca Conduct Guidelines*: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions


Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page





*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## Quag

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Quag, case by case based on the type of drug, timeframe when last used, etc. Different drugs give different timeframes as to when allowed to reapply. If they didn't want her due to any other reasons, they would have told her.



Thanks for filling me in SigDes ;D


----------



## formerarmybrat23

thanks guys
i do remember him saying that it was 3 yrs for this particular one. it was kinda funny because he said they couldnt give me a gun because i might "have flashbacks" which doesnt occur in this drug but whatever. 
yea im totally serious about going. applyed in fredericton but am in alberta now. i sent an email to them and am calling tomorrow. My friend is in basic and i was telling my bf about how he was doing then my bf tried to tell me that i wouldnt make it through it and would cry and come home. Im pretty pissed about this and really want to prove him wrong. i want tostart a career that i can be proud of anyways! 

thanks again!


----------



## Sig_Des

formerarmybrat23 said:
			
		

> thanks guys
> i do remember him saying that it was 3 yrs for this particular one. it was kinda funny because he said they couldnt give me a gun because i might "have flashbacks" which doesnt occur in this drug but whatever.
> yea im totally serious about going. applyed in fredericton but am in alberta now. i sent an email to them and am calling tomorrow. My friend is in basic and i was telling my bf about how he was doing then my bf tried to tell me that i wouldnt make it through it and would cry and come home. Im pretty pissed about this and really want to prove him wrong. i want tostart a career that i can be proud of anyways!



Don't tie yourself into a contract just to prove someone wrong. Do it because you want to.

As far as the drugs, I don't know what kind, but they do have different effects and triggers. You'll find that if they told you 3 years before you could join, there's also some trades that are closed to you. Say Pilot, air crew, etc.


----------



## formerarmybrat23

sorry about the msn shorthand. i was not aware of this rule. Although i must admit i will probably screw this up just out of habit. its just how my generation types. most shorthand is understood but again i will try to stop this habit. sorry again!


----------



## formerarmybrat23

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Don't tie yourself into a contract just to prove someone wrong. Do it because you want to.
> 
> As far as the drugs, I don't know what kind, but they do have different effects and triggers. You'll find that if they told you 3 years before you could join, there's also some trades that are closed to you. Say Pilot, air crew, etc.



Yea i definatly want to do it. as a brat its apart of who i am. From being really little and seeing my parents in uniform and going to military family days and events to being dressed up in helmets and uniform to take pictures. It kinda gets me down to see my friends going and myself held back. i know if i dont try to get in before im too old ill reget it.  I also want to again that confidence and pride many CF members have. I dont want to be cocky just self assured. Plus theres alot of comfort in a stable career, not just a dead end job.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Since you are using a nome de plume, and we do not know who you are (which is good for my next question), do you mind me asking what the drug was.

It may help us offer a better opinion, especially the medical folks

dileas

tess


----------



## formerarmybrat23

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Since you are using a nome de plume, and we do not know who you are (which is good for my next question), do you mind me asking what the drug was.
> 
> It may help us offer a better opinion, especially the medical folks
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



its was mesquline. tried it once and will never ever do it again!! as for restrictions he said i can be anything except pilot lol


----------



## Gimpy

I hate to be the one to burst you're bubble, but you said it will be 3 years since you've applied in November 2007, which means you applied in November 2005. Unfortunately that isn't 3 years. If they told you that you had to wait 3 years to reapply you will have to wait until November 2008. But it wouldn't hurt to go into the recruiting center again and talk to them about it a bit further.


----------



## formerarmybrat23

Gimpy said:
			
		

> I hate to be the one to burst you're bubble, but you said it will be 3 years since you've applied in November 2007, which means you applied in November 2005. Unfortunately that isn't 3 years. If they told you that you had to wait 3 years to reapply you will have to wait until November 2008. But it wouldn't hurt to into the recruiting center again and talk to them about it a bit further.



sorry i should have been more specific. i applyed in 2005 but as i mentioned before the time u have to wait is from the point u took the drug. which for me was november of 2004.


----------



## Gimpy

formerarmybrat23 said:
			
		

> sorry i should have been more specific. i applyed in 2005 but as i mentioned before the time u have to wait is from the point u took the drug. which for me was november of 2004.



Oh alright then, sorry for the misunderstanding, and I do know about alot of people being honest at the recruiting center with previous drug use. After a group of us completed the CFAT we were given the drug sheets and most of us got through it pretty quickly and were waiting the the lobby. About 20 minutes later the last two people finally came out after completing their "essay" of a drug sheet.

Anyways, good luck with the process.


----------



## Franko

In reference to my last post......formerarmybrat23, you want to get in to the forces correct?

*Stop the MSN speak.* 

It's good practice for when you have to write memos. Use proper grammar and punctuation. 

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## formerarmybrat23

Gimpy said:
			
		

> Oh alright then, sorry for the misunderstanding, and I do know about alot of people being honest at the recruiting center with previous drug use. After a group of us completed the CFAT we were given the drug sheets and most of us got through it pretty quickly and were waiting the the lobby. About 20 minutes later the last two people finally came out after completing their "essay" of a drug sheet.
> 
> Anyways, good luck with the process.



thanks for the good will. i havent taken any drugs since that time, so im good there. now its just preparing for the physical. I know girls have thelower standards but i just had a baby last july and needless to say i got about 15lbs to lose and hardly any motivation.  not too worried about sit ups and pushups. its the running ive never been a runner. but i know when i get in they will make me get over that pretty fast!


----------



## formerarmybrat23

Recce By Death said:
			
		

> In reference to my last post......formerarmybrat23, you want to get in to the forces correct?
> 
> *Stop the MSN speak.*
> 
> It's good practice for when you have to write memos. Use proper grammar and punctuation.
> 
> *The Army.ca Staff*



Sorry. As i mentioned before i am certainly trying. I am enjoying this forum and do not wish to be kicked out. I am a college graduate and can use the correct grammar. i guess its just lazy typing.


----------



## imjustsomeguy

formerarmybrat23 said:
			
		

> hello i went into apply in 2005, and unlike some ppl i know told the whole truth on my drug sheet before my computer exam. needless to say this screwed me. I passed the computer test with flying clours but was then told i had to wait 3 yrs for the point the drug was taken to reapply.



Good on you for being honest. It shows character. The same thing happened to me a few years ago. I too was completely honest with my past and was deferred for a year. I did my time and now I have applied again.


----------



## formerarmybrat23

imjustsomeguy said:
			
		

> Good on you for being honest. It shows character. The same thing happened to me a few years ago. I too was completely honest with my past and was deferred for a year. I did my time and now I have applied again.


yea in most cases honesty can be good but i can see how some people would lie. I have to pay for past mistakes but it doesnt seem fair does it? You walk away with the feeling that you should have lied because after all most drugs are not detectable after days or sometimes months. 
i couldnt live with myself if i lied. you never know what the government can find out about you....


----------



## CFR FCS

Times are changing and so is recruiting policy. I would strongly advise anyone who was previously counselled out for any reason to visit their friendly recruiting centre and discuss reopening your file, you may now be eligible due to changes in policy. If your file was opened in another location it can be transferred to the nearest RC. Some things like the ExPres test have changed.  Keep trying.


----------



## orange.paint

When I enlisted the good captain sat me down and had our little interview.After she hauled out a piece of paper with a huge list of narcotics.I chose the usual Newfoundland boredom drugs,weed,hash,mushrooms.None of which I had used in the previous 2 year's and mushrooms within 5 years.The only one I was even questioned on was the mushrooms as they are a heavy physcoactive (sp?) drug,and she explained it may "reoccur" during a 3 year period.

I left for basic shortly after.

If you go in and be honest/not smelling of hippie grass you'll be fine.But drugs like coke,mes,ice,shrooms,acid....expect to wait 3 years.I had a friend who also joined armoured the same week as myself.I taught him on his DP1 5 years later as he had to wait 3 years then took two to get back in.
(Something for all you space kadet kids out there to think about)


----------



## STING

I have the same problem . I was honest and was told waitout for three years . As of now its been 1.5 years and Ive decided to reapply anyway. I've almost finished my GED , paid money out of my own pocket for a drug screening and have got several references . One from my doctor saying I'm physically and mentally good to go and one from my former TRG Officer from cadets saying I don't have any kind of drug problem and I would make a excellent candidate for the CF . I got a call from CFRC and they scheduled me for my medical and interview . I'm assuming they know it hasn't been 3 years and I'm hoping they're starting to look at the files on a more individual basis.


----------



## formerarmybrat23

STING said:
			
		

> I have the same problem . I was honest and was told waitout for three years . As of now its been 1.5 years and Ive decided to reapply anyway. I've almost finished my GED , paid money out of my own pocket for a drug screening and have got several references . One from my doctor saying I'm physically and mentally good to go and one from my former TRG Officer from cadets saying I don't have any kind of drug problem and I would make a excellent candidate for the CF . I got a call from CFRC and they scheduled me for my medical and interview . I'm assuming they know it hasn't been 3 years and I'm hoping they're starting to look at the files on a more individual basis.


good luck to you sting i hope that you get in. Im looking in to doing the same thing. you never know maybe we will see each other there. one can only hope!


----------



## beach_bum

I hear a lot of talk, not just in this thread either, about the CF "screwing them over" for being honest.  Saying perhaps they should have lied etc.  It's not the CF screwing anyone.  People who make the choice to use drugs screw themselves.  Plain and simple.  We all make choices in life, and if you make a bad one you must suffer the consequences.  Don't try to shift the blame elsewhere.


----------



## formerarmybrat23

beach_bum said:
			
		

> I hear a lot of talk, not just in this thread either, about the CF "screwing them over" for being honest.  Saying perhaps they should have lied etc.  It's not the CF screwing anyone.  People who make the choice to use drugs screw themselves.  Plain and simple.  We all make choices in life, and if you make a bad one you must suffer the consequences.  Don't try to shift the blame elsewhere.


so you have only justified the whole point. apparently liers do prosper. 
besides you cant say that youve never done something you regretted, it may not have had these consequences but you probably paid for it in one form or another. 
besides its really easy for you to sit up on your high horse when you are already in. Im not shifting blame. THe recruiter told me that id have to wait and i wasnt angry, i accepted it and have been waiting since. Im sure that i will get in this time


----------



## geo

S'cuse me?
the CF screwing someone over for being honest about drug use?

Don't thik so.  The CF asked an honest question and you might as well come out with an honest answer.  The CFs directive for you to wait 3 years is for everyone's own good... Are you going to re-offend- possibly not intentionally (at 1st) but, on that level, it does not matter.... if you re-offend - you'll get a strike against you... and the troops at your side will not trust you & your jugement.

You done the "crime".... be a man, do your time.


----------



## Donut

FAB23,

suck back, reload, watch your tone, or the ramp's that-a-way!


----------



## formerarmybrat23

like i said i did the crime ive done the time. end of discussion. Im not a habitual drug user. i tried one drug once. period. 
since applying ive had time to be young a little longer, and start a family. Im glad to have had the time to sort things out. becoming a mother is the best thing to have happened to me. Now im almost done maturnity and i am looking forward to starting a new chapter. Rules are in place for a reason and i respect that. 
i thought this would be a good thread for people who have also encountered this obstical. A mistake made in high school should not follow you around for the rest of your life. I cant say that any of my friends are the same as they were in high school. If they were it would be pretty sad, you grow up and mature as you get older.


----------



## Staff Weenie

FAB23 - from CMP INSTRUCTION 14/06 - CANADIAN FORCES APPLICANT PRE-ENROLMENT DRUG USE POLICY

"If during the post substance form assessment interview, applicants confirm or declare past or current hallucinogen use, the MCCs must take into consideration applicants’ past occurrences or potential occurrences of *hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD), known colloquially as flashbacks*.  Research literature on HPPD/ flashbacks indicates that this condition is very difficult to accurately diagnose medically in that the perceptual disturbance symptoms that the hallucinogen users present may be caused by other factors.  These factors can include, but may not be limited to, visual epilepsies, migraines, delirium, strokes, brain tumours, dementia, schizophrenia, posttraumatic stress disorder, and severe anxiety and depression.  Therefore, an applicant’s self report of having HPPD or of having a flashback must not be taken by the MCC as being accurate.  The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of  Mental Disorders – Fourth Edition contains the standardized operational criteria for HPPD that medical doctors use to diagnose the condition.

Drug use information on applicants who have used hallucinogens and report a past medical diagnoses of HPPD shall be passed to the recruiting medical staff who will take it into consideration during the medical assessment phase.  Medical staff will assess the impact of applicants’ hallucinogen use and HPPD occurrences in relation to their reliability and suitability for CF enrolment (i.e., are there employment limitations).  For applicants who feel they have HPPD and feel they have experienced at least one flashback episode, but have never been medically diagnosed as having the condition, must also have that information passed to the recruiting medical staff for further consideration with regard to their suitability for military service.	

As indicated, drug use information for assessed or self-reported dependent drug users and for some hallucinogen users must be passed to recruiting medical staff.  As well, for other applicants, MCCs at their discretion after having consulted a UPSO, can pass any extensive and questionable drug use information that is based on a combination of type of drug(s) used, frequency of use, and when used to medical staff for their consideration during those applicants’ medical assessment phases.	"

Mescaline usage *is* associated with HPPD. It may take as little as one use to leave a permanent disorder:

Hallucinogen-Induced Disorders

Hallucinogen Intoxication 
Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (Flashbacks) 
Hallucinogen Intoxication Delirium 
Hallucinogen-Induced Psychotic Disorder 
  With Delusions 
  With Hallucinations 
Hallucinogen-Induced Mood Disorder 
Hallucinogen-Induced Anxiety Disorder 
Hallucinogen-Related Disorder Not Otherwise Specified

A very close friend of mine had LSD dropped into his drink one summer by somebody jackass who thought it would be really funny to see what would happen. Two years latter, he stole 10 Kg of a cyanide compound and finally silenced the voices. Nobody was able to figure out why he was going off his nut and not responding to meds. It wasn't until about a year after his death that I told the Doc about his 'one time use', then it all came together..... 

While the odds are that you're not at risk, and are now good to go, the three year waiting period was there to protect all parties involved. Aside from the MSN speak, you seem to have your life heading on the right track, so good luck, and hope to see you in uniform soon!


----------



## eerickso

I would imagine that if the recruiting centre said,  "come back in three years" , they want to see you again in three years. :-\


----------



## orange.paint

Funny thing is.
I grew up in rural Newfoundland.Never saw a soldier in uniform besides Americans until I went to enlist.I also didn't have a internet connection.However I was interested in the army,made phone calls at the age of 15.After receiving my rejection letter from the US military(I'm a alien).I called up the CF and asked questions about previous drug use(as I KNEW it was illegal),and any other question I could think of.They promptly asked me what types,and I told them.They told me the action to take.I.E refrain from these drugs 3 yrs prior to enrollment.

Therefore I had no problems enlisting.From day 1 of wandering into the office to graduating basic was approx (max) 4 months.

If your serious about enlisting,you will make sure you set yourself up for success.After I heard of a drug test I ceased all civilian cerebellum recreation.

Makes me wonder how serious these people are in joining the CF.If your a army brat wouldn't you realise dope and the army don't mix?Did you never hear of zero percent policy.Did your army parent/parents do Mes?

How come Myself a highschool graduate from butt**** Nfld realised this,yet a person on a army base could not grasp the concept?

(Won't go into the policy as there are more threads covering this discusting system)


----------



## formerarmybrat23

Amen lets bury this topic and pick on someone else!


----------



## formerarmybrat23

and no my parents being in the military did all the experiments in high school. just like everyone else. Ofcourse back then they didnt test for such things. infact all my dad was asked if he smoked, and if he did they suggested he should stop. anyways im done with this. hopefully this thread has answered other peoples concerns.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

If you have anything you feel that should be added just contact a mod.


----------



## FlipTechniq

Hi,

I'm pretty new here and first and for most ... thinking of joining the Army in pursuit of a career opportunity. I've heard there is a preliminary Drug test for potential recruits; correct me if im wrong. If there is, how stringent (serious) are they about these tests???

Thanks!


----------



## FascistLibertarian

I could be wrong about this but my basic understanding is.

They test you for drugs.
If you show up positive you dont get it.

Later, they randomly test you for drugs.
If you show up positive you get kicked out.

If your using I dunno if the CF is for you.
Well besides booze and smokes


----------



## Michael OLeary

Recruiting FAQ - Drug Use - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103982.html#msg103982

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search

Try limiting the time period of your searches to the last 6 months or a year for the most current discussions on this topic.  Searching on "drugs" for messages up to 365 days old returned 9 pages of hits.  Changing the board selections to just the "Recruiting Office" forums reduces this to 2 pages of hits.


----------



## Pte_Martin

FlipTechniq said:
			
		

> ...I'm pretty new here and first and for most ... thinking of joining the Army....



so if your not in the army maybe you should change your display picture, your not a Private yet.


----------



## Gitmo777

My friend has his aptitude test, medical and interview coming up in 4 days.  Problem is he smoked weed 2 months ago and I told him about the 6month thing.  He's now worried and is wondering if he should just reschedule all his test 4 months from now?  So my question is.  Should he reschule his tests for a date in 4 months or should he go through the process anyways?


----------



## Teflon

Your "friend" should give his head a shake and stop doing dope.  In going to the recruiting center your "friend" should have been well aware of the policy on drug use for the CF and stopped toking up right away. This little situation makes me question your "friend's" desire to really join the CF in the first place. I mean if it isn't worth not smoking up then your "friend" must not really want to join that bad.


----------



## Gitmo777

Well you should know that as soon as my "friend" applied for the CF and learned all the policies he did indeed quit smoking dope.  And quitting on the spot like that does show commitment.  Anyway I wasent looking for a preacher.  I just want the question to be awnsered.  Should my "friend" reshedule or go through it.


----------



## Teflon

If you I mean your "friend" does reshedule his/her test, will he/her be honest in his/her reason for wanting to reschedule?

As to preaching?,... common sense isn't preaching


----------



## Gitmo777

Of course me "friend" will be honest.  Thats why my "friend" wants an awnser before he phones his recruiting officer, which he will probably do very soon.


----------



## Teflon

That would be an excellent choice on your "friend's" part


----------



## Gitmo777

Thanks.


----------



## Teflon

Gitmo777 said:
			
		

> Thanks.



That would be a thanks relayed from your "friend" of course wouldn't it?


----------



## Gitmo777

You know it bud  ;D teeeheeehee


----------



## Teflon

Yes,  real hilarious,,.... my "friend" is laughing his ass off.

Best of luck and,....


Just say NO to drugs


----------



## aesop081

Are we done being "friends" now ?  .....i'm going to puke

Milnet.ca staff


----------



## Nfld Sapper




----------



## CFR FCS

Gitmo777, 
Your friend might as well go do the CFAT and find out if he or she has the right aptitude to even process further. That way if their attitude improves they can do a CFAT rewrite after 90 days if needed.


----------



## aesop081

CFR FCS said:
			
		

> Gitmo777,
> Your friend might as well



*"friend"*


----------



## sapphre

Hey everyone, 

I HAVE SEARCHED THESE FORUMS FOR 2 HOURS FIRST.

Im currently in the process to join, I am waiting to write my CFAT (actually im waiting to get booked in to write).

I am 20 years old, and have been drunk 3 times in my life, the last time was about 4 months ago.

Before last night, I have *NEVER* smoked pot. I was on my way home from the gym last night, my buddy drove me home, and we made a stop in to a friends house. I figured, hey, I'm joining the army, I KNOW I wont be able to screw around in the army, so, I better experience it now while I'm not (same thing for growing my hair out too lol, shave it off at boot camp). I had a few puffs, coughed my lungs out and burned my throat, but I was determined to feel the effects. I ended up smoking quite a bit apparently, and yeah, it worked. I was freakin right out an hour later.

So, this morning, I get up, and my first thought is. "Oooooooooooooooh boy". How screwed am I? I could see it not being a biggie 6 months ago, but man, this is right before my CFAT and that process...


What should I do?

(please do not tell me to use SEARCH, I have searched and cannot find a similar situation).
Thanks for the advise,


----------



## PMedMoe

They don't drug test you when you do the CFAT.   :
You say "right before my CFAT" yet you are not even booked in to write it yet.  Relax!
Don't do it again.  I would even recommend not hanging out with the "friends" who do and when it comes time for your interview (or whenever they ask about previous drug use) be honest.


----------



## MedTechStudent

http://www.concept420.com/how-long-does-marijuana-stay-system.htm

Pot stays in your system(urine) for about 30 days (at the most).  It can leave long before that however depending on your body.   Best way to speed that up is to drink lots of water.  Like as much as you can lol.  Is your medical the same day as CFAT?

 ;D So you grew your hair out too eh?


----------



## sapphre

Heh, they're not even friends. They're the coach of my gymnastics team, and a few of the 'cool cheerleader guys' lol. 

The tricky part is, I just got kicked out of the house (my dads ex military of 22 years or so, and is tired of my laziness apparently - boot camp to fix that?! lol). Im staying with the friend who took me there to actually get stoned, Ive got no other place to go, and dont want to pay for an apartment quite yet, as I hope to be gone shortly. But I suppose I will have to look around.

I will NEVER touch it again, I didn't actually know about the drug policy (no excuse), but man thats all I can think about now is my future going down the drain/



Thanks for the reply.


----------



## jzaidi1

Bud,

If you feel ok then write the CFAT.  If you are doing a medical along with it then re-schedule the whole thing for another day.  It takes a while for pot to purge from your body.  You shouldn't be doing drugs anyway but you've heard that line a million times.

J


----------



## sapphre

MedTechStudent said:
			
		

> http://www.concept420.com/how-long-does-marijuana-stay-system.htm
> 
> Pot stays in your system(urine) for about 30 days.  Best way to speed that up is to drink lots of water.  Like as much as you can lol.  Is your medical the same day as CFAT?
> 
> ;DSo you grew your hair out too eh?



I understand it will only be in my system for 30 days, but, I still dont want to lie about using drugs.* Lie in the military, lie in the dirt*, as I see it. I am now just afraid they will say 'please come back in 6 months'. The problem is I just got approved on my waiver to rewrite (i was going to join 2 years ago outa highschool, wrote, and decdided to go to college).



My hair is about 2 inches long now. LOL


----------



## MedTechStudent

Ok, well heres the problem.  If you lie and get caught by your urine test.  Now THAT will look bad.  Right on the sheet it will ask for a list of drugs, number of times you have done it and lest time you did it.  I would THINK, that if you are honest and just put once, it should not be to big of a deal.  

However!.... lets take a moment to talk about that devil drug "pot"

Pot is barely a drug, and the only reason the government hates pot is because they cannot regulate it.  Alcohol is easy, they make it they sell it we buy it, get drunk and fight with each other.  Pot can be grown and sold within the public, which is BAD BUSINESS for the Hill.  My point is, I would much rather be a round a group of stoned people than a drunk bunch.  I have never seen ANYONE lose their temper or get angry and violent after smoking up.  Opposed to the dozens of people I have seen completely change for the worst after a few shots.  I have not done put for a long time now but if I had the choice between the two...


----------



## sapphre

0 Drug Policy.


:S


----------



## PMedMoe

sapphre said:
			
		

> I still dont want to lie about using drugs.



*Don't*, as I said in my first post, be honest.

MedTechStudent, I believe there are loads of threads on here about alcohol vs. marijuana.  Doesn't matter what people think along those lines, it's still *illegal*.


----------



## sapphre

So am I looking at getting this screwed up?

Im fairly sure they did say its CFAT, medical, interview all in one day, Im going for a hot trade.


Whats to become of me? Frig what a stupid idea.


----------



## Teflon

sapphre;

The good news is you realize you did a dumb-ass thing, now every dumb-ass act has concequences, you are at least displaying the right attitude of not wanting to lie about in your recruiting process, keep on with that and find out out what the concequences will be, you might very well have to wait 6months but hey, you did it and in the end one way or the other I sure you'll deal with it


----------



## MedTechStudent

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> it's still *illegal*.



With good reason, it makes you stupid. :brickwall:

I'm not advocating it's use, I'm just trying to downplay his situation because he seams quite stressed about it.

My last thing on it sapphre is this, you did it once, sounds like you hated it, bet you won't do it again.  As long as you tell the truth and don't do it again, you will be fine.  No one can tell you for sure if you will get in trouble because in all honesty, we just don't know.  

Best of luck to you!


----------



## sapphre

I suppose you're right. I just really hate my job! I was REALLY looking forward to getting out of here, and starting a career. Oh well, at least I can tell my future children how screwed up drugs make your life.

So, should I go ahead and proceed with the test as normal, tell them that I did smoke up in the last 30 days first time ever, and see what happends?


----------



## PMedMoe

sapphre said:
			
		

> So, should I go ahead and proceed with the test as normal, tell them that I did smoke up in the last 30 days first time ever, and see what happends?



Call the CFRC you're dealing with (or go in person) and ask.  That way, if you do have to wait the six months, you're not wasting their (and your) time.


----------



## sapphre

Good idea.

Ill do that now and let you know what I find out.


----------



## kincanucks

People stop giving recruiting advice or commenting on how the process works if you really have no intimate knowledge of it.

Sapphre,

You will go to the CFRC/D on the date scheduled and you will follow the direction given to you at that time.  Out.


----------



## sapphre

kincanucks said:
			
		

> People stop giving recruiting advice or commenting on how the process works if you really have no intimate knowledge of it.
> 
> Sapphre,
> 
> You will go to the CFRC/D on the date scheduled and you will follow the direction given to you at that time.  Out.




Thanks for your help. Everyone, but I will be taking the following advise. I will simply go throught with this, no bsing the interview, explain my situation and wait the required amount of time if need be.


Thanks Army.ca for your help.


----------



## randomNINJA

My name is Brandon and I am 18. My life is going downhill and I need a serious change in life. I have always wanted to become a soldier ever since I was a wee lad. But unfortunately I got into the wrong crowd and began smoking pot. I have never done drugs, Just smoked marijuana throughout high school. I eventually dropped out, due to the ignorance of the teachers. They showed no care to me, because of the people I was hanging out with, because of that I did not get the marks I deserved. It is the exact same thing as getting paid $6.50/h of course you are going to quit. I have been arrested some 4 times, 1-being drunk in public 15, 2- being stoned... that is nonsense by the officer, 3- having 0.1 grams of marijuana on me, 4- having a corrupt cop put blame on me for 5 grams of marijuana which were not found "ON" me. The bag of weed was found in the forest where I clearly wasn't. After the last arrest in October of 2007, I decided to get my act together. I have now been clean of marijuana since then. I have stopped hanging out with those influential people.  So basically I got no friends ATM. So all I really do is workout,run,train nintaijitsu and work. So now that you know a little about me, I am now going to ask a few questions.

1. Due to my past, can I be denied access to the Canadian forces?

2. What documents do I need when I go to the recruiting place in Ottawa?

I hope I get some positive feed back, All help would be much appreciated.


----------



## Mike Baker

Do a search of the forums, and visit your local CFRC.


Baker


----------



## S.Simpson

randomNINJA said:
			
		

> I have never done drugs, Just smoked marijuana throughout high school.



 :  :  :

First of all, stop lying to yourself about that one.


----------



## George Wallace

randomNINJA


Welcome to Army.ca. Here are some reading references that are core to how Army.ca operates. I strongly recommend you take a moment to read through these to give you a better sense for the environment here. It will help you avoid the common pitfalls which can result in miscommunication and confusion. For those that choose not to read, their actions often lead to warnings being issued or even permanent bans.

*Army.ca Conduct Guidelines*: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Tone and Content on Army.ca: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/51970.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

*Frequently Asked Questions - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41136.0.html*

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html
Army.ca Wiki Recruiting FAQ - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure: http://64.254.158.112/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf


Infantry Specific FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

CFAT practice test - http://64.254.158.112/pdf/preparing_for_aptitude_test_en.pdf

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Google search of Army.ca - http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site%3Aarmy.ca+%22search+term%22&btnG=Search&meta= (follow the link then replace "search term" with what you are looking for)

Army.ca wiki pages  - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


You may want to start your SEARCH with the following subjects:

Drugs
Drug Use
Criminal Record
Pardons
Education Requirements
Requirements to join the CF.



To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


----------



## randomNINJA

S.Simpson said:
			
		

> :  :  :
> 
> First of all, stop lying to yourself about that one.



What do you mean? are you assuming that I have done cocaine and other crap like that?


----------



## S.Simpson

Marijuana might not be a "hard" drug, but it IS a drug, whether you like it or not.


----------



## randomNINJA

S.Simpson said:
			
		

> Marijuana might not be a "hard" drug, but it IS a drug, whether you like it or not.



ok good enough... but it can't kill you. so it is deemed harmless it is a stupid drug none the less. So I will never smoke up again.

But in vietnam... they smoked marijuana. Which helped the soldiers a lot! and because of them smoking there were less post traumatic stress incidences. But now there are more like it has shot up a good 80% I am not saying that the soldiers nowadays are pussies. But I do think marijuana does help out with post traumatic stress. My opinion. also is there division in the aptitude test? because that is useless to a soldier.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Do the required reading first and foremost.



			
				randomNINJA said:
			
		

> What do you mean? are you assuming that I have done cocaine and other crap like that?



Marijuana is a drug. Full stop, no semantics.

Then you have to stop blaming everyone else, no matter what your perceptions are, and start taking responsibility for your own actions.

When you've done, at least, all the above, go to the Recruiting Centre, be honest and ask your questions there.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## youngone

Hi, i just wanted to know some things about past drug use and if they will allow me to join. when i was in high school in grade nine i experimented mushrooms only once and it was the worst experience ever i didn't even eat enough to hallucinate it just made me sick to my stomach and got like hot and cold sweats, i did not enjoy it at all. I also tried pot for the first time in grade nine wasn't to fond of it but when grade ten came along i did it a little more like on weekends and stuff, that went on for a while till grade 12 i never really was a big pot head or nothing it was more of just the weekend thing and i guess sometimes at school even. but in grade 10 i tried a line of cocaine that was offered by some friends, I know it was the stupidest thing i have ever done in my life and i was pissed at my self for about a week after. I've been outta school for a year now and i stopped smoking pot about 2 months ago i know i made bad choices in life but I've learned from my mistakes and i have changed a lot, I started boxing and going to the gym everyday, i dedicated my life to the gym I want to join the Forces so bad but I want to know if this is going to screw me


----------



## karbon14

Hi everyone
I’ve been reading through several posts on the site and it seems to me that there is an overwhelmingly false association between one’s past use of drugs, not so far in the past recreational smoking of marijuana and an individual’s integrity, ability to make decisions and reliability. These matters should be considered on a case by case basis. I understand that the military has a no-drug use policy and I fully understand and agree with the reasons behind it, nevertheless someone who drinks quite often, gambles or smokes a pack of cigarettes a day is probably less reliable than the recreational pot smoker that smokes once a month. The individual that does legal drugs on a regular basis are managing a crutch through behaviour that is deemed to be socially acceptable. The recreational pot smoker doesn’t have a crutch.

I recently applied for an officer position in the forces and from a military background. I am part of the top 1% of students at my university with a GPA of 4.0/4.3. I have actively volunteered in my community in several different programs, some of which I began myself. I also train year round for Olympic distance triathlons. I have excellent credit…you get the point.

I have no problem being honest with having experimented with hard drugs in the past, which ended about 7 years ago. I also have no problem being honest about recreationally smoking pot on and off since then. And I HAVE smoked marijuana in the past 6 months. If being honest about this means I don’t get in, or that I have to wait another 6 months and reapply because there are never any exceptions, then military policy designed to weed out undesirables may also be preventing their best candidates from having a go at it.

Let us not hide the fact that there have been numerous reports of military personnel testing positive for drug use in the Canadian Forces…just Google it. As an army brat, I’ve seen this. Like I said, the zero tolerance rule is there for a reason, I agree, but the screening should definitely go beyond whether an individual has smoked a joint in the last 180 days and establish whether it is an addictive behavior or if it has any repercussions in regards to one’s career path. Assessing suitable personality types is much more ambiguous than this. I don’t think someone who smokes a joint every four weeks is going to have any major issues quitting, unlike an alcoholic or a nicotine addict. At the risk of being criticized, I have to say that much of the animosity with the comments that I have read seem more appropriate if directed towards chronic marijuana smokers.

I know my opinions do not change the rules. I hadn't really considered joining the forces until I discovered a job that was personaly suitable in the Navy a few weeks back (just graduating). Your comments are appreciated. Thank you for responding respectfully.


----------



## PMedMoe

Just be honest in your interview.  They may tell you to come back when the six months since you smoked your last joint has passed.


----------



## Infandone

> If being honest about this means I don’t get in, or that I have to wait another 6 months and reapply because there are never any exceptions, then military policy designed to weed out undesirables may also be preventing their best candidates from having a go at it.



How is being told to reapply in 6 months preventing you from having a go at it?


----------



## Michael OLeary

karbon14 said:
			
		

> I have no problem being honest with having experimented with hard drugs in the past, which ended about 7 years ago. I also have no problem being honest about recreationally smoking pot on and off since then. And I HAVE smoked marijuana in the past 6 months. If being honest about this means I don’t get in, or that I have to wait another 6 months and reapply because there are never any exceptions, then military policy designed to weed out undesirables may also be preventing their best candidates from having a go at it.



So, you admit to your illegal behaviour and use of drugs, but for some reason you think you're such a special case the military should set aside its recruitment policies just for you?  You're going to have to try harder to convince me.

Try wrapping your head around the fact that it's the USE OF DRUGS that potentially makes you an undesireable candidate (even if only for the short term until you've been clean the required period).   It's not mitigated by how wonderful a person you assess yourself to be.


----------



## logairoff

I think the drug issue has a lot to do with the personality and the person and not just the actual drug. I've always thought that being in the military you were expected to conform and do things that you don't necessarily agree with. See I think that the type of person who has trouble conforming with society and the rules/laws that society has is very likely to clash with the organizational structure and the military way of doing things. This may make you an unsuitable candidate.

I don't know I could be wrong but I don't think the military wants you to be challenging orders and doing things your own way because you feel like they're wrong and you're right. If you want to challenge the status quo the military is just not the place to do it.

I know this may be reading a lot into an occasional drug use but its the law. What makes this any different than breaking any other law. If you can't follow the rules and the laws in place in society then you will probably have a hard time following the ones the military has in place.

Anyways I've heard the arguments you presented from my friends and the way people try to justify drug use. The best advice I can give you is to be honest discuss it and if you feel it was a mistake then say it was a mistake and you've moved on. Trying to justify it is something that a lot of people won't buy. The thought that pot is harmless and is no worse than smoking is not shared by society eventhough science may prove otherwise.


----------



## vector1

Ok 

Well I went through the whole recruiting proccess, and I lied on my entrance about drug use when I was a teen,im going into a int related trade, I know about the csis interview, to get into my trade,I don't know why I lied,just panic I guess,I just want to set my record straight on not get released because of it 

What can I do?


----------



## the_girlfirend

I guess you can correct the situation by telling the truth

I remember going over the drug sheet again at my interview at the CFRC... 

Also you probably can contact your CFRC at any time to correct your mistake.

Good luck


----------



## Franko

Own up and hope for the best...because when they do find out, and they will, yer done.

Regards


----------



## George Wallace

vector1 said:
			
		

> Ok
> 
> Well I went through the whole recruiting proccess, and I lied on my entrance about drug use when I was a teen, im going into a int related trade, ..........



The advice give by others above, is the best you are going to get.

If you are going int an INT related Trade, then your moral and ethical character has to be fairly clean cut and honesty a cornerstone of your job.  If you have failed in any of them, then you will likely not be in the job.


----------



## RetiredRoyal

think i read this in another thread a while ago...guy came clean, his drug use was too recent..they closed his file and told him to come back in six months.

when i admitted to drug use between the time i got out and back in again, the capt looked at it, turned the sheet upside down and continued the interview.

They aren't looking for perfect people, they are looking for people with integrity. We all do stupid things, like that time with the CO's daughter...live and learn, be honest.


----------



## George Wallace

Updated to include/merge several threads so those who may ask, may perhaps find their answers here, should they have the patience to actually read.


----------



## jmlz87

Just to add my 2 bits here,

I was counselled out for NPD use in 2005. I was told to come back in 6 months completely clean of any NPD use. The MCCs want to see you are serious about this decesion you are making and how dedicated and loyal you are, to serve in the Canadian Forces.

 I ended up VW'ing my file, then reapplying in 2007. Now I'm in and working at said CFRC.

Best advice, reiterated by George Wallace and Der Panzerkommandant.... 								
Own up and be entirely truthful. Disclose all your use as lying will get you nowhere.


----------



## boboyer

I started to read the first page and noticed that it was from 2002, so I skipped to a few from the last page.
From what I can gather, just be honest on it, or you wont get in. Or you may get in, and they will find out later, and that could be a million times worse.
As for me, did I smoke a little pot back in grade nine and ten? Yes, but I stopped and moved on with my life, played competitive Rep hockey and never really thought back on my previous pot use.
When I go in for my my interview and medical, I will have no problem telling then about what I did in the past. The past is the past, and what I'm focused on now is my future career in the forces, and if it means telling the truth about something years ago, then so be it.


----------



## consumed343

Got a question hopefully some of you can answer.  I originally did my application process in 07, went to basic in 08, VR'd (dumb reason) 
and now I'm reapplying (after my 6 month wait, ended last month).  When I went back in to re-apply, I was given the drug sheet again with all known substances to mankind.  Since I don't drink, or rather have not touch any alcohol in well over 1.5years (alcohol being beer, I never touched the hard liquor), and my pot exposure has been just that, exposure from other people smoking, I left the sheet blank.   

My question though, on the original drug sheet that I filled out in 07, I may have written down beer occasionally, and I can't remember if talking with the recruiter they wanted me to write down the times I was exposed or to leave it blank since I've never smoked it myself.   Should I go back into the recruitment center and ask to look at my old sheet, and if so what would be the right way to ask? I don't want to look like an idiot, or come across as a liar, but I would like my current sheet reflect my original, something I should have asked to see in the first place.  Thanks.


----------



## GAP

This is kinda like everybody wanting Mulrooney at his inquiry wanting him clear his soul (oh and sing kumbuyyah.....)

If you didn't take it/use it say so.....period!!


----------



## bran

It's a drug/alcohol use sheet. If you didn't use it then say no, they don't need to hear about anything else.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

*FML*


----------



## Baloo

randomNINJA said:
			
		

> But in vietnam... they smoked marijuana. Which helped the soldiers a lot! and because of them smoking there were less post traumatic stress incidences. But now there are more like it has shot up a good 80% I am not saying that the soldiers nowadays are pussies. But I do think marijuana does help out with post traumatic stress. My opinion. also is there division in the aptitude test? because that is useless to a soldier.



This was one of the most fascinating things that I have ever had the privilege of reading while on this site.


----------



## combat_medic

randomNINJA said:
			
		

> But in vietnam... they smoked marijuana. Which helped the soldiers a lot! and because of them smoking there were less post traumatic stress incidences. But now there are more like it has shot up a good 80% I am not saying that the soldiers nowadays are pussies. But I do think marijuana does help out with post traumatic stress. My opinion. also is there division in the aptitude test? because that is useless to a soldier.



You might want to quote your source on that one.

Actually, according to most experts (start off with On Combat by LCol Dave Grossman) they show pretty definitively that marijuana use amongst American soldiers in Vietnam significantly INCREASED incidents of post traumatic stress. The reasoning is that the soldiers never developed appropriate coping mechanisms to deal with the stress, and were reliant on drugs. When the drugs were gone, they were left with nothing to deal with the stress.

Also, if you think division is useless to a soldier, tell that to people calculating indiect fire, calculating amounts of explosives, calculating magnetic declination, or any other of the advanced mathematics that are useful to any number of soldiers in the military.


----------



## mariomike

combat_medic said:
			
		

> When the drugs were gone, they were left with nothing to deal with the stress.



"you can't drown your troubles, not the real ones, because if they are real they can swim."
Goodbye, Darkness: A Memoir of the Pacific War


----------



## British Army

If I may be allowed to play devil's advocate for a moment...... 

As someone who's spent the majority of their life in the forces and has never even smoked a cigarette let alone taken any drugs, my heart sinks when I read threads like this - I sit back and say to myself, 'is this what the world has come to?' My systemic reaction always takes me to the same conclusion - if you chose/choose (nobody forces you) to take drugs then you've no place next to me!

But then I wait a minute, calm down and reflect on what has been said previously, the forces are a reflection of society so we must either take or leave what society has to offer. As nice as it may be to hold the moral high ground, if we decide to strictly adhere to the zero tolerance ideology then what will we be left with, simple, an ever decreasing force in an era where we actually need to expand - do the math, it doesn't work.

So what do we do to shift the balance in our favour.......we stand there with a big stick, because prevention is always better than cure.  Humans are a complicated breed, even the steadfast can succumb to temptation even though conventional wisdom and logic says otherwise - surely reading this thread is evidence enough of that.

So what's the big stick in our scenario..........in my opinion, it's regular compulsory drug testing. Not just when you're off on tour but routine enough for the tempted to think, 'it's not worth it, I'll be tested again in a couple of weeks.' Sure, no doubt it won't stop the weaker willed individuals but it may be enough to stop the majority from taking that odd toke when it's passed round at the weekend party.

Does this take on things mean that I've abandoned my principles or condone the use of drugs.....in a word, no! What it does mean is that the military is an evolving machine and we (serving members) must be capable of evolving with it. Principles and ideology should never be abandoned but they must be tempered with reality. People will always be susceptible to drugs; it's how we approach the issue and the preventative measures which we put in place to mitigate the problem which is what really counts.

Anyway, that's my :2c: for what it's worth.........


----------



## Michael OLeary

PRB 07-51E
*Drug Testing in the Workplace*
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0751-e.htm#dcanadian



> D.  The Canadian Forces
> 
> Pursuant to the National Defence Drug Testing Policy announced in 1990, regulations respecting the Canadian Forces Drug Control Program were approved on 21 May 1992 by the Governor in Council as Chapter 20 of the Queen’s Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces.  Under this program, mandatory drug testing with random elements would be introduced, primarily for all military personnel in safety-sensitive positions.  The program would apply only to uniformed personnel and not to the civilian staff of the Department of National Defence; however, given that all uniformed positions are considered to be safety-sensitive, the military drug-testing policy was considered to be fairly inclusive.  Most military drug testing would be done through the random selection of units comprising 5 to 500 individuals.  Testing would also take place for cause, for those who were undergoing rehabilitation for drug use, for post-accident investigations and for certain “super-sensitive” positions that were not covered by the random testing of military units.  All testing would be conducted by means of urinalysis and any positive drug screen would be subject to a confirmatory analysis.  Failure to comply with a request to submit to a drug test could result in disciplinary action.
> 
> In February 1995, the Chief of the Defence Staff informed the Privacy Commissioner in writing that the portion of the drug testing policy relating to random selection had been suspended; however, he still reserved the right to reopen the issue in the future should circumstances dictate its necessity.  This letter was in response to the Commissioner’s 1994 opposition to the widespread use of random testing of Canadian Forces members for the presence of illegal drugs, even though the Department of National Defence’s own statistics had revealed that its members rarely used such substances.  Indeed, the department’s own survey had revealed that the intoxicant most widely used by its employees was alcohol, which was not covered by the Forces’ policy.
> 
> In 2006, the Canadian Forces instituted mandatory drug testing for soldiers to be deployed in Afghanistan.  As reported on CBC News in September 2007, 250 soldiers were prevented from being deployed to Afghanistan during the past year because they tested positive for drug use.  The military told CBC News that it had tested about 6,800 soldiers since mandatory drug testing of troops headed for Afghanistan began in September 2006.  CBC News obtained the results of tests done between September 2006 and May 2007 through the Access to Information Act,(42) and the military then provided numbers from May until September.  Test results showed that most soldiers who failed had tested positive for marijuana.  *It was also reported that there were plans to expand the drug testing program to include blind testing, which would encompass the entire Canadian Forces, not just soldiers slated for duty in Afghanistan.*


----------



## PMedMoe

I agree with the blind testing of everyone, not just those going on tour.
I was told by a Lab Tech that results would do not go on one's medical file as any repercussions for positive results are strictly administrative.  I guess that means maybe it would go on one's Pers file?   ???


----------



## British Army

*"It was also reported that there were plans to expand the drug testing program to include blind testing, which would encompass the entire Canadian Forces, not just soldiers slated for duty in Afghanistan."*

That's good to hear; this is method of testing which we employ over here. I must have been tested at random a dozen or so times. Although blind testing is good I still believe it should be used in *conjunction* with regular mandatory testing and *not as the alternative*.  :clubinhand:


----------



## gcclarke

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I agree with the blind testing of everyone, not just those going on tour.
> I was told by a Lab Tech that results would do not go on one's medical file as any repercussions for positive results are strictly administrative.  I guess that means maybe it would go on one's Pers file?   ???



Waaaiiit a minute. So there's no way that a positive lab result for drug use can be used in disciplinary action? This smells fishy to me. I can understand it possibly not being a medical issue, but methinks that the code of service discipline has something to say on the matter.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

The blind testing is already being done. My Unit went through it a couple of months back. No word on results yet though. Maybe everyone passed? ;D


----------



## Fishbone Jones

gcclarke said:
			
		

> Waaaiiit a minute. So there's no way that a positive lab result for drug use can be used in disciplinary action? This smells fishy to me. I can understand it possibly not being a medical issue, but methinks that the code of service discipline has something to say on the matter.



Disciplinary action would be encompassed within the administrative actions, methinks.


----------



## PMedMoe

gcclarke said:
			
		

> Waaaiiit a minute. So there's no way that a positive lab result for drug use can be used in disciplinary action? This smells fishy to me. I can understand it possibly not being a medical issue, but methinks that the code of service discipline has something to say on the matter.



Perhaps Obviously, I wasn't clear.  Positive results would be used for disciplinary action.  No results (negative *or* positive would be on medical docs as drug testing and the possible repercussions are purely administrative.  I think I'm trying to say that it may be difficult to do testing without the assistance of the medical folks as they may have to go through an outside agency for testing.

There is a guy deploying from here who is going with a group from Winnipeg.  He requires testing and as of a week ago, he has not been able to find out where/when/how he can get it done.  He is deploying in June.


----------



## Occam

gcclarke said:
			
		

> Waaaiiit a minute. So there's no way that a positive lab result for drug use can be used in disciplinary action? This smells fishy to me. I can understand it possibly not being a medical issue, but methinks that the code of service discipline has something to say on the matter.



Two different testing programs in play here.

Deployments are Safety Sensitive Drug Testing, covered under QR&O 20.09.  Note B to that QR&O says "(B) Because the focus of this testing is deterrence and administrative action to reduce the danger to safety, paragraph (1) of article 20.15 (Disciplinary and Administrative Action) *does not permit the results of the urine test to be used as evidence in any disciplinary proceedings against the member who was the subject of the test.*"

Blind testing is under QR&O 20.13, and is anonymous testing, as the word "blind" suggests.  No admin/discip action if you don't know who tested positive...


----------



## mellian

I am just amused that most of the discussion and issues of drug use surrounds mostly around pot than any other substance. Let alone alcohol, which on average is more abused than pot ever as from every stats I ever read and from all people I ever known. 

So I am curious, how extensive is the testing and questionnaires for alcohol? I known people who have never done any illegal drugs, yet have abused alcohol, regularly getting intoxicated and in turn sometimes getting in trouble because of it. Meanwhile, those that I known who regularly smoke pot rarely get into as much trouble. 

I have not drank alcohol until 3 years ago or so, and not in any serious quantities up until the past year (yay roller derby after parties!). I am 25 now, so pretty much been "straight edge" for majority of my life and way longer than average. Admitingly, I tried pot for the first time in the past year out of shear curiousity and while intoxicated, and personally do not know how anyone can get anything out of the stuff. I even tried it while completely sober out of further curiousity and experimentation, and I still do not know, as most it maybe does is make me hyper like any any sugar candy or chocolate would. Heck, out of all the times I tried, I was more likely to burn my throat with stuff than anything. 

I understand that different people have different tolerances, and for some even just makes them sick, but even observing friends and others that I known from the stuff, which is many throughout my life since high school including current roommates (meaning bit hard to avoid it second hand wise even when I do not smoke it along with cigarettes), they are more affected and prone to stupidities or being off due to alcohol than pot. So if I get nailed for pot in my bloodstream and not because of alcohol, I would be pretty miffed. 

Many in this thread that I read mentioned they never tried drugs, yet drink alcohol. Is it really any different from those who smoke pot? Harder drugs like shrooms, acid, cocaine, heroine, and etc I can understand, but pot? Seriously? I think any organizations or institutions who are concerned about pot should be just as concerned about alcohol, as they are both just as effective in incapacitate someone to the same general degree, and usually worse for alcohol in some ways.


----------



## George Wallace

First off: Alcohol is not an illegal or restricted substance as the topic subject "drugs" are.

Second: One is questioned on their alcohol consumption on every Medical that they will have in the CF.

Third:  The affects of alcohol are easily observed.  There are physical affects on persons that can be easily tested and analysed.  People's muscles relax.  Their breath smells of alcohol.  Their pores ooze of alcohol.  The Police have instruments to measure the Blood Alcohol Levels of people suspected of drinking.

Fourthly:  Alcohol related Charges have sever career ramifications on members of the CF, often resulting in Termination of Service and a Criminal Record.  In some cases, Alcohol related Charges are more sever than Drug related ones.


----------



## Jungle

mellian said:
			
		

> but pot? Seriously?


Yes, seriously. We don't need more pot-heads in our ranks. The policy is fine as it is; all CF members are aware of it, and know the consequences of consuming anyway. There is no excuse.


----------



## KevinB

FYI my current employer tests for drugs prior to hire, and random testing year round, plus immediate testing upon incidents.

  There are way better ways to get highs in life than drugs.


----------



## ThadoS

I use to Smoke pot.. Last time probably Dec 08, that was just once, before around the beginning of September 
maybe in a 4 year span of 04-08, i'm perfectly clean, it's all i ever did... I rarely drink, I'm usually the friend that's the Dedicated Driver...
I smoked it for 4 years, i'm not very proud of it, I look down on it and i see how much of a potential killer it is, no good comes out of it.

Yet i'm a little worried about my interview (I have passed my CFAT) I was honest on the drug sheet, i wrote that i use to do it, i would just hate like hell for it to ruin my chances of becoming a Member of the Canadian Forces.


----------



## the_girlfirend

They just do not want you to lie about it... (if you can't be honest why would they hire you?)
You don't even need to defend yourself or justify it... 
Most of us tried it, (I am very happy I did ;D) and now we are all clean... 
We grew up, we are adults and we now have different ambitions... 
That is it.


----------



## X-mo-1979

recceguy said:
			
		

> The blind testing is already being done. My Unit went through it a couple of months back. No word on results yet though. Maybe everyone passed? ;D



Don't count on that.
We were tested during the beginning of work up training.6 months later a few people were hauled off tour,after being in theater for 3-4 months.

So the guys who know they failed should still be sweating.


----------



## PMedMoe

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Don't count on that.
> We were tested during the beginning of work up training.6 months later a few people were hauled off tour,after being in theater for 3-4 months.
> 
> So the guys who know they failed should still be sweating.



If it's *blind* testing, they won't know who was positive.  They can only give generic results such as "2% of people tested postive for blah,  blah, blah."  

Testing before a tour is not blind so as to weed (pun intended) out those who are using.


----------



## X-mo-1979

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> If it's *blind* testing, they won't know who was positive.  They can only give generic results such as "2% of people tested postive for blah,  blah, blah."
> 
> Testing before a tour is not blind so as to weed (pun intended) out those who are using.



Ok seen.
I think blind testing is a waste of money.It may act as a deterrent for a short time but offers no consequence to the offenders.
However even these results will take a long time to filter back.


----------



## mellian

Jungle said:
			
		

> Yes, seriously. We don't need more pot-heads in our ranks. The policy is fine as it is; all CF members are aware of it, and know the consequences of consuming anyway. There is no excuse.



You took that out of context from the point I was making. I am saying that if the CF is concerned about the affects of pot, they should be concerned of the affects of alcohol as well, and be treated the same way. If it is not simply because alcohol is legal, makes me wonder if the consequences of pot would be reduced if it ever gets decriminalized or legalized.


----------



## Kat Stevens

There's a very nice thread around here somewhere dealing with the what if variable.  As it is, alcohol is legal, TAXED, and available from reputable retailers, pot is none of these at the present time, so here we are.


----------



## Journeyman

mellian said:
			
		

> So took that out of context of the point I was making. I am saying that if CF is concerned about the affects of pot, they should be of alcohol as well and treated the same way. If it is not treated the same just because alcohol is legal, makes me wonder if the consequences lessened if pot ever gets decriminalized or legalized.



LOL. Thank you for reaffirming Jungle's post. You may want to edit that into coherent sentences once you're sober/straight (not wanting to judge your grammar-skewing substance of choice    )


----------



## mellian

Journeyman said:
			
		

> LOL. Thank you for reaffirming Jungle's post. You may want to edit that into coherent sentences once you're sober/straight (not wanting to judge your grammar-skewing substance of choice    )



Oh thank you, I appreciate the assertion that I am a drunk or/and pothead just because of my lack of sleep yet sober grammar.   :


----------



## observor 69

Oh being drunk/skunk/smashed/clobbered/hammered/pished/plastered/sloshed/tanked or wrecked is OK.

Just don't get high on weed or you ae going straight to hell.   >


----------



## The_Falcon

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Ok seen.
> I think blind testing is a waste of money.It may act as a deterrent for a short time but offers no consequence to the offenders.
> However even these results will take a long time to filter back.



I don't think its a waste of money per se, its more or less used to determine if there is in fact a drug problem with a particular unit/base/etc.  From what I read on some site/CANFORGEN (can't remember the particulars), if the blind test comes back, with really high numbers the CO or his Boss, can order everyone do the full meal deal (ie not blind, you test positive your in for a little chat).  Don't quote me on the specifics as I can't find it right now, but if i get the chance i will.


----------



## verypoorchoice

5 years ago I partook in some drugs that I'm not AT ALL proud of.  Heroin, cocaine and crack.  (twice, three times, and twice) At the time I thought they would be a good 'experience.'  I also smoked pot, but gave that up as well after realizing how stupid it is, and how lazy it made me.  
I'm very much ashamed of the horrible judgment I used, and have since grown up a lot.  It's only been 5 years, true, but I'm a totally different person.  (I know I sound like a d*ck saying that, but it is true) 

I refuse to lie to anyone about my experiences, the thought of it makes me extremely uneasy.  I want to leave it all behind and become a soldier, but I'm afraid laying it all out on the drug sheet will make me ineligible.

Do recruiters assess these types of things on a personal basis, or dismiss one immediately after admitting such horrific drug usage?  I'm not addicted to any substance (except a cup of tea once a day) and don't have an addictive personality.  I'm bilingual, reasonably intelligent (or ridiculously stupid, one may pointedly argue) and I think I would make a good recruit.  Am I naive to dream of a future in the CF? Thanks for your time.


----------



## MikeL

Read this thread, should give you an idea of what to expect.  Now to find out if the CF will accept you call or visit your nearest Recruiting Centre.


----------



## the 48th regulator

verypoorchoice said:
			
		

> 5 years ago I partook in some drugs that I'm not AT ALL proud of.  Heroin, cocaine and crack.  (twice, three times, and twice) At the time I thought they would be a good 'experience.'  I also smoked pot, but gave that up as well after realizing how stupid it is, and how lazy it made me.
> I'm very much ashamed of the horrible judgment I used, and have since grown up a lot.  It's only been 5 years, true, but I'm a totally different person.  (I know I sound like a d*ck saying that, but it is true)
> 
> I refuse to lie to anyone about my experiences, the thought of it makes me extremely uneasy.  I want to leave it all behind and become a soldier, but I'm afraid laying it all out on the drug sheet will make me ineligible.
> 
> Do recruiters assess these types of things on a personal basis, or dismiss one immediately after admitting such horrific drug usage?  I'm not addicted to any substance (except a cup of tea once a day) and don't have an addictive personality.  I'm bilingual, reasonably intelligent (or ridiculously stupid, one may pointedly argue) and I think I would make a good recruit.  Am I naive to dream of a future in the CF? Thanks for your time.




Welcome to milnet.ca

I would give you the rainbow post, but like you, I feel a little lazy.

Please search this question via the search function.  I can bet my bottom dollar made of wheat that you will find yer answer.

dileas

tess

milnet.ca staff


----------



## verypoorchoice

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it!
I have read most of this thread and didn't find anything too conclusive with regards to my situation.  I guess my best bet is to talk to a recruiter... I want to tell them straight up to avoid wasting their time, but I think the more they get to know me, the less of a problem my shameful past may be.  I'll have to find a happy medium, I suppose.


----------



## the_girlfirend

Hey!

If it was five years ago, maybe you should just get over it... honestly my drug sheet was pretty full too... but yeah it was ten years ago... I am now a different person... that is the whole point.

If you cannot get over it yourself do not expect the recruiters to do it for you. 
Don't be ashamed, just keep moving forward!

Good luck

(and by the way if I remember correctly you go over the drug sheet again in your interview and you will probably get a chance to talk about it also on your medical... so you will get a chance to explain... if that is what you were affraid of)


----------



## Kmess

Quick question. What about underage drinking? I'm 16, 17 in August. I had my first underage "thing" with friends in 2006, I didn't get drunk. And I don't drink regularly, maybe one or two drinks a month. I was wondering what their policy is, if anyone knows? I hope that they don't crack down on it, I haven't done any drugs or anything, so yeah. Also with caffeine, does that include coffee and energy drinks? If so i didn't see that on the "drug" questionnaire after my CFAT. I drink coffee pretty regularly, and I haven't touched an energy drink in a month or more. Since I forgot the caffeine thing, will i be in trouble or can i just tell the medical examiner?

Thanks,
Kelsey


----------



## traviss-g

They are not trying to bust people for illegal acts they just don't want drug addicts in the CF. I put down, drinking, pot and the one time use of mushrooms and I talked about it all with my interviewer and that was that, they had no real problems with it. Underage drinking is not a problem unless the drinking itself is a problem for you. In the end I would, no matter what your drug use,put everything down on the form.


----------



## Kmess

For caffeine, I didn't see it on the form or I must have read over it by mistake. So I guess I just tell the examiner?


----------



## Kat Stevens

The army runs on caffeine, I wouldn't sweat it.


----------



## Kmess

Haha... Ok Well Thanks everyone for answering my questions


----------



## Fishbone Jones

How many times, in the 16 + pages of this thread, do we have to tell you " drug addled, pot smoking, acid taking, cocaine snorting, crack smoking, mescaline medaled, weed ingesting, heroin hammering pieces of crap, that the only place to get your sorry assed question answered is at the Recruiting Centre?

I'm locking this up, because even the most drug adled asshole could find what he's looking for here, already posted here in this thread, with a spliff and a spark.


----------



## canadasyouth

hi, this topic has been brought up once before i read threw it and personally it wasn't given a proper responce, and i just want to know if i can smoke salvia while i am in the armed forces?

it has no long term effects on the body, is a proven anti-depressant, the high last for 15-20 minutes. It does not permently "alter" the brain such as LSD, Marijuana or cigarettes do so, it is almost like drinking alot of alcohol without the sickening feeling and only last 15minutes

thank you for any responce, i am sorry if i "aggravated" or set any of you off by asking this question, i just think its important for me to know.

salvia is legal in canada


----------



## McG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum



			
				canadasyouth said:
			
		

> ... i just want to know if i can smoke salvia while i am in the armed forces?


No.  You cannot.


----------



## canadasyouth

thank you for your answer much appreciated


----------



## rayduran

"Have you taken any drugs ever?"

I remember a question similar to this one on the internal paperwork right before the testing when I joined 4 years ago. I said "yes, I smoked weed once during college accidentally" - which was true due to someone saying it was a rolled cigarette but lied to me. Anyway, the recruiter liked my honesty and I was accepted. 

After 2 years of reserve experience and VRing -  I will be enrolling again as my previous QL3 qualified trade - RMS Clerk, but this time regular force - As for 'that' question in the internal paperwork I want to tell the truth and say yes I have smoked weed once, but will that prevent me from joining the regular force as the rules/regulations are tighter in the reg vs. res, anyway I just want to know if I should be worried that's all.

Thanks.


----------



## gcclarke

No, a single instance of marijuana use over 4 years ago should not preclude you from joining the regular force. This issue is discussed *extensively* in the following thread: http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/12779.0.html


----------



## rayduran

Thanks, I was worried there for a sec.


----------



## brandon_

If you think your in trouble for doing it once in college...    i hate to think about whats going to happin to the kid who sits beside me in my english class!  We are both doing the miltary co-op, i'm preety sure this kid has gone through 10 differnt hard drugs (no joke) last week he got suspended for smoking up during school hours.   he's going to have an interesting time trying to explain that to the docters at the cfrc, although interesting to see how it turns out for him.


----------



## rayduran

lol wow..


----------



## X-mo-1979

I went in and filled out the list with the recruiter during my interview.
-Coke
-Weed
-Mushrooms
-Hash
-Oil
And was in basic 2-3 weeks later.

They aint looking for saints.She did express concern about the usage,however at that point of my life (ripe old age of 17)I was bored with all that.I went off to have a very successful career thus far in the military.While my fiends whom were not little idiots like me in highschool all went to college bombed out when they discovered drugs,and a few are living on the streets in Leduc Alb smoking crack.

The only concern she had with me was the date I last used mushrooms as its considered "hard drugs".

Smoking weed once is far from something to be concerned about.


----------



## Dante_Of_Canada

You should reformulate your question to :

Have you taken any illegal drugs ever?

Because tylenol or Advil is considered a drug, so yeah

Me personally, I've never done any illegal drug, only thing I've done is alcohol.


----------



## gcclarke

Well the questionnaire they have you fill out also includes, notably that stick out in my mind, alcohol and caffeine. So yes, you wouldn't be "clean" either. 

Again, they're not looking for people with pristine backgrounds. They're looking for people that do not currently have a chemical dependence. Frankly, I think they'd be much more concerned with the person who downs 12 cups of coffee and a pack of smokes a day than the person who used to smoke a joint a week up till half a year ago. But, that's just my humble opinion.


----------



## X-mo-1979

The big thing they are trying to find out is if your a addict,if the drugs have made you borderline retarded,or if your past will become a future problem.Go in be honest and they will decide if you make it in or not.Using drugs is a dangerous recreation period.Even more so when it's the guy watching your back.
I just wanted to add that as my previous comment may be perceived as supporting any form of drug use.And although alcohol abuse is losing it's popularity in common culture,I am not a fan of the "red nosers" that use to be rampant.Alcohol abuse is a horrible disease as well as hard drugs


----------



## Armymedic

Yes,

Ibuprofen,
Naproxen,
Tylenol,
Aspirin.

You know, most people I work with take those drugs too....


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Enough.

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## glimpseofwar22

OK....i know there are TONS of posts up here that kinda all go around the same subject, and i have read most of them, so please i truly need some accurate and honest facts/opinions here.

A friend of mine and i are both applying for a reserve job(army), so far everything is still in process, but it looks like either one of us will be getting the call for CFAT and medical, etc etc, really soon (Couple months? give or take?) .

Here's the deal, my buddy is real stressed about the whole drug screening. We were told not to lie, EVER, and he doesn't intend on doing so.  As far i know, he hasn't smoked pot in about three years, never messed around with pills and all that crap, although he enjoys to drink and smokes quite a lot of cigarettes. About a year ago, for some stupid reason, decided to do some coke, ONCE! And then, never did it again. The debate here was wether or not to mention this at the medical.

this being said, what are the chances of passing in a situation like this? will he be asked to re-apply later? what is the policy on this? Any good info would help.


----------



## Michael OLeary

So, what about all the different posts that you read did you have trouble understanding?  Allow me to summarize:

1.  He's an idiot.

2.  Telling the truth to the Recruiters is the only acceptable course of action.

3.  He might be told to go away and reapply at some future time.  If that happens suck it up, he chose to do the drugs, he can now meet the requirements to be clean before applying as directed by the Recruiters.

4.  You will not find much sympathy here for casual drug users who think it shouldn't matter.


----------



## PMedMoe

I echo Mr O'Leary's post.  Be honest in your dealings with the Recruiting Centre.  Only they can tell you whether or not it is an issue.  If you have to wait, you have to wait.

Your "friend" may be getting stressed for nothing.


----------



## SeanNewman

I agree with Michael's post.

I will word it a bit differently, in that it is better to make a mistake and own up to it than to make a mistake and hope nobody finds out.

While I do not work at a recruiting centre, I can say that I am at a (middle) rank where I assess people's performance and character, and it would impress me quite a bit if someone came to me to say that they had made a mistake but now they've learned their lesson.

If I can give your friend - which I assume means you  - any advice, it would be that when he brings it up, make sure he mentions that he now knows it was stupid, he learned his lesson, and in the long-run it turned into a positive experience because now he knows that path is not for him and he wants to live life by the rules.


----------



## SupersonicMax

It's funny how so many people are worried about their friend's enrolment, rather than their own, and come here to make sure their "friend" is good to go


----------



## Joe1012

Okay so here is the story. I am very very interested in a career in the army and like many others (not making it okay) I have used drugs. As far as marijuana use goes I was not a heavy user. I spent some time in Amsterdam (total of 12-14 days in the last 1.5 years) with some friends who study there and I did use marijuana. I since march have not nor wanted to smoke it in the slightest. I have found on here that I need to go 6 months clean before beginning the application process. 

The reason I have reposted this is because I while in Amsterdam I also took LSD. I know it was a stupid decision I don't need people to tell me this. The thing is, what I did take was basically what was left after everyone else I was with had done what they wanted. What I ended up taking was an equivalent to what I was told at the time was 1/4 of a normal "hit". I understand that a primary concern is flashbacks but when I was on it I actually never even had enough in me to trip thank God and it actually only felt the exact same effects of marijuana.  

One week after I returned from Amsterdam I decided that marijuana really is a gateway drug and that it had aided me in making the worst decision I will ever make in my life and I have been clean of illegal drugs since then. I have also quit smoking cigarettes which I smoked for around 10 months and rarely drink as of lately. 

I am not a stoner or a pot head. I am simply someone who experimented. For those who will ask why I would do that if I wanted a career in the military. I have always been interested in the Military but never seriously considered it to be an option primarily because my family are not super supportive because its dangerous.  I have many friends who serve in various Militaries and lately decided that my family would have to live with it and have actually began to change their view. 

I would like to hear for certain perhaps from someone working in recruiting as to whether or not each person's drug use past is looked upon individually in the interview or if its a simple 3 years from use for everyone.

I am sorry for the recurring topic but would really appreciate any answers that are not just a guess or speculation.

Thank you


----------



## PMedMoe

I would think (sorry, speculation) that each person's drug history would be looked at on a case-by-case basis.  After all, there is a huge difference between someone who was a heavy user or a "social" user and someone who only experimented, as _seems_ to be your case.

Tell the truth on your application.


----------



## Joe1012

I appreciate the reply. I would have to agree with you and I hope that is the case. It really was all the truth. It has been bothering me for the last two days and I was looking for some answers to try and give my mind a rest.


----------



## Nostix

Prefaced with the usual "I am not qualified to answer your question in any official capacity".

I've been rather curious about this as well, and there seems to be a lot of mixed information on the subject.

From what I have looked at from the forums, before 2007 there was a hard 3-year limit on the use of hallucinogens. From reading DND documents, in 2006, they rewrote pre-enrollment drug policy to initiate a more individual case-by-case approach to drug use prior to joining the forces. Indeed, most of the posts in the drug use topics that were made before 2007 have indicated that they were immediately counselled out of the recruiting process for a hallucinogen violation within the last three years, while a few posts made in 2008 and 2009 have indicated that the use of hallucinogens was overlooked as recently as two years previous, as long as it was experimental. 

Without knowing if this was an official policy change, it seems that you certainly have a much better chance now that you would have in previous years. The general consensus is to be honest and say a little prayer if you're so inclined. 

Edit: The document relevant to this post can be found at http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/14-06-eng.asp.


----------



## PMedMoe

I didn't mean to imply you weren't telling the truth.  I just meant to be honest on your application.


----------



## Joe1012

Well that seems like better news. I have noticed the same. I have seen a few people write saying that they had done mushrooms and it was experimental and it was overlooked. I do believe that one thing I do have in my favour is that although I did take LSD I never got a full dosage and never experienced the full potential of it and know for sure I won't have to worry about flashbacks and all the back things that could come. 

Okay I am sorry I misunderstood you. I wouldn't lie. I believe in being truthful especially in the something as important as the forces. I am not proud of what I have done, but I am not going to sit around and feels sorry for myself. I would tell the truth even if it meant no military career at all.


----------



## Nostix

On that note, most of my conclusions were drawn from the fact that the 2006 document indicates a change from current policy at the time. 

*Request:* It would be helpful if anyone had any official documentation indicating what the official policy was before then. It might help to highlight any glaring changes in the policy, so we can update the information people are working from. I'd hate to see someone jump into the "drug use" topic and immediately be put off by some of the zero-tolerance posts from 2003.


----------



## cn

To find out if *your* drug history may affect your enrollment, the best thing to do is to apply and when they hand you the drug sheet to be honest about your use and let the officer reviewing your file to tell you if *your* history qualifies for a waiting period or not.


----------



## PMedMoe

This link may be of some use:  Canadian Forces Applicant Pre-Enrolment Drug Use Policy  It's dated 2006 although the Modified Date is 05 Dec 08


----------



## Fishbone Jones

*GO-ASK-THE-RECRUITING -CENTRE!*

The answer never changes

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Sylvia

Hello,

I need some help about a situation concerning my son. He has been accepted into the Army and his enrolment ceremony is June 3rd. During his last interview he was asked if he had ever suffered from depression and he answered honestly and said yes he had at one time. The recruiter gave him a form to take to his family doctor for her to fill out. The problem is in his past he has used Marijuana  and has been to Rehab  and has cleaned himself up. The doctor wrote previous drug abuse on the form, our concern now is will this ruin his chances of joining next week? He is very worried this will ruin his chances as he has cleaned up and changed his life as he is no longer using and no longer has depression.  He has waited over two years to get the call and it finally came and is now worried his past will ruin it for him. He has been given all his dates to start, and now is upset because he doesn’t know if he will be allowed to join.

Thank you for your time,

Sylvia L


----------



## Sylvia

Thank you the recruiter said she will know tomorrow  if there is a problem or not. If there is should we go to Ottawa and see if there is anything he can do to get them to change their minds?


----------



## old medic

> The doctor wrote previous drug abuse on the form



If that form went in, and he has been given an date for swearing in, etc. 
then he's passed the medical.  Unless, as stated above, he lied on the form
and interview.


----------



## Mudshuvel

Hi Sylvia,

The Canadian Forces would rather you be honest, even if you had a cloudy past. I have smoked hashish, marijuana, drank when I was young, had depression, was placed in psychiatric care but I was open and honest about it. They requested my doctor's OK on my health, and overall took my word for it and now I'm just waiting for my call from selection. However I was pretty brutal on the form and made myself sound possibly worse than how I was. I wanted to convey the worst that I was to show I have nothing to hide. Unfortuanately, your son would have benefitted with some of the posts here relating to it.

I hope your son was honest on the forms. The Canadian Forces want him in as much as he wants to be in, despite of his past. He was already accepted if he's being sworn in. Did he out contradicting information on the form?

Mud


----------



## Sportsguy

Hi,

I have been trying to find the answer to my question for some time now and have had a hard time finding it. So here it is. I am in the recruitment process and have done my CFAT and passed and answered the past drug use questionnaire and medical questions. I am now waiting for the call for an interview and medical test. I was completely honest on my questionnaire and wrote that I have used marijuana once or twice a year for the past 4 years for a total of 6 times. I am sure this is not a problem, however, I think there could be a problem with when I used it, which was, for the last time, 3 months ago. I have read on these forums that we have to be clean for 6 months to be eligible. Now I am wondering if this meens clean of dependent drug use or clean of any drug use, or if this is even true. If anything is not clear please let me know and I will clarify. 

Thanks in advance


----------



## RCDtpr

I'll be burtally honest here.  With the current recruiting situation (way more applicants than positions) why would the CF want someone with a history of drug use?  We have enough substance abuse problems and "occasional users," we don't need to add more to the mix.  Is MJ a HUGE deal in the grand scheme of things....probably not.  But as I said, the CF can be VERY picky at who they accept right now.

If I were a betting man I'd say don't hold your breath with regards to getting a job offer anytime soon. 

Just my .02


----------



## Jarnhamar

Or you'll get told to wait X amount of months stay clean and reapply.


----------



## CountDC

or you should talk to the recruiting centre because you will get a wide spectrum of answers on that question based on peoples opinions and experience.  Times have changed .... a lot since I joined.  I was honest on the question too.  They asked when was the last time and I told them a month ago.  They asked why I decided to quite and I told them because I wanted to join the military which didn't allow drug use.  27 years later I am still around while many that either didn't tell the truth or  use prior to joining have gone out the door for using.  Now if we went purely on my experience you would be good to go but I will say again times have changed.  There are lots looking to get in so they are able to create a different screening level.  Perhaps now they are more prone to say no unless you have been clean for x period of time.  It is good though to tell the truth because if you didn't and it was found out after you were in you could be released.  

Don't give up, stay clean and good luck.


----------



## m.k

I used marijuana moderately for a while. I had only been "clean" for a few months before my aptitude test. I was completely honest about my usage. I was asked why I quit, and I said it was because joining the military was what I was positive I wanted to do and that no high could ever compare to how I knew I would feel when I finally put on that uniform. Not to mention, I never cared about marijuana, it was just something to do and it was fun. 
The officer commended me for my honesty and commitment in ensuring that I no longer used or surrounded myself with people who I knew had a tendency to smoke marijuana regularly. He then informed me that he was going to put my application on hold for a couple of months to ensure that I had enough time to clear my head and be sure that this was what I wanted. 
Months later at the interview a different officer told me that my past drug use affected my competitiveness. My aptitude test score was high, I did well on my interview/medical, but my high school grades/past substance use were problematic. (in the sense that, as RCDcpl said, why pick someone with a history of substance use when someone who has stayed clean their entire lives is just as readily available?) I took this as a sign that I would likely not be very high on the merit list and began doing what I could to improve my competitiveness in other areas (applying to college, looking around for volunteer work, etc). I then received a job offer. It could have been arbitrary, but regardless I accepted. 

I don't have anything against marijuana users (save for the perma-fried stoners who can hardly speak a sentence without stopping to regroup their thoughts...), however any illicit substance use/abuse has no place in any institution where lives may be lost if jobs are not done 100% efficiently and properly. Stay clean, be honest, and if the time comes when you do get a job offer, do your absolute best and prove to yourself/others that past mistakes can be made up for.


----------



## AlltheFixins

I wouldn't worry about it. As long as you were honest with them and that you're no longer using. 

You will be subject to random testing.


----------



## PMedMoe

AlltheFixins said:
			
		

> You will be subject to random testing.



And non-random testing for tours.


----------



## Tow Tripod

Maybe you could get posted to RSS Amsterdam!! Doorman at the Bulldog I might add! :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Sportsguy

Thanks a lot guys, great info! I realized that no one really mentioned the 6 month policy, is that because it does not exist or that you aren't sure about it?


----------



## Wilamanjaro

Hey Sportsguy, 

I applied last April and have since been merit listed. I too, used to use marijuana, somewhat moderately through my teenage years. I was totally honest in how much I "used" and how long it has been. I was then asked "why did you quit?" and my answer was "Because this is worth it, a career, a life in the military, being part of the Canadian forces, is worth not smoking pot anymore." I was successfully "Merit listed" so don't be discouraged, they will consider you, heck, I like to think that they admire you giving up past pleasures and showing responsibility and dedication to something greater. But then again, I'm still "just merit listed" haha, so I suppose we will see if they pick us up in April 2012! Good luck to you and congratulations on kicking the habit and doing something you can truly be proud of.


----------



## RCDtpr

Admire him for giving up "past pleasures?"  Not the word I'd use......but whatever helps you sleep at night.


----------



## Jarnhamar

How about respect instead.


----------



## Wilamanjaro

Ha, Wow, yeah admire definitely sounds wrong. Respect'll do. Thanks guys.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

RCDcpl said:
			
		

> Admire him for giving up "past pleasures?"  Not the word I'd use......but whatever helps you sleep at night.



Does it matter what term he used? Someone was given the member best wishes for making a commitment to be clean, thats all that counts.

Milnet.Ca Staff


----------



## wwarlockk

I know that the CF requires applicants to be at least 6 months drug free. I've only done weed on occasion, and has stopped since March. Should I still hand in my application for the reserves and wait 4 months to do my medical, or just wait it out till September, and then apply? I apologize if this topic has been brought up before, I've done a search, and did not the right info to my question. Thanks  :yellow:


----------



## Mushroom

It will not matter either way since they wont process your file till the allotted time is up.


----------



## estoguy

Just a little devil's advocate here, but if he doesn't reveal that time frame to the recruiters, or fudges it a bit, how would they know?  (I'm not advocating this, BTW, just asking a question.)  Because wouldn't the effects of any THC in his system be long gone, even after 4 months?


----------



## Dkeh

Drugs are bad. I did my fair share of them (read: a lot) before I joined the CF. I manned up and admitted every type that I had done, and how recently. The Officer interviewing me raised an eyebrow, asked if I was sure the CF was right for me, then congratulated me on being _honest_. Honesty is a big deal in the CF. A fucking big deal. I don't care if someone did drugs in their past. I DO care if they lie about it.


----------



## estoguy

And I agree with you, totally.  I only asked the question considering his situation (one time use, several months ago).


----------



## Dkeh

I would say wait. IF he is expedited, for whatever reason, then it will not look good if the previous drug is >6 months. Besides, time between your last use and your interview will only look better as it increases, not the other way around.


----------



## wwarlockk

Thanks for the replies, I'll wait it out. 



			
				estoguy said:
			
		

> Just a little devil's advocate here, but if he doesn't reveal that time frame to the recruiters, or fudges it a bit, how would they know?  (I'm not advocating this, BTW, just asking a question.)  Because wouldn't the effects of any THC in his system be long gone, even after 4 months?



From what I've read, they will sometimes investigate you, how? I don't know. But I'd rather just wait, than risk getting caught. 

However, when I'm supposed to state all the times I've done weed on the drug sheet, what do I do if I really don't remember? Not because I forgot, but I never really kept track. Could I say I did it on occasion from January to March?


----------



## Dkeh

wwarlockk said:
			
		

> However, when I'm supposed to state all the times I've done weed on the drug sheet, what do I do if I really don't remember? Not because I forgot, but I never really kept track. Could I say I did it on occasion from January to March?



That is exactly what I did.


----------



## ModlrMike

There is no confusion: wait until the six month point. 

All of the other advice and metaphysical positions on fudging the issue are meaningless. Don't start your career with a dishonourable act, even if you're the only one who knows it.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

There are several topics with new applicants with recent drug use and they all say the same thing. Lots of good advice out there if your willing to look for it.

Locked with the usual caveats.


----------



## Hurricane

Go into a recruiting center, fill out the paperwork, submit the application, and see what happens.


----------



## brihard

They need you to be clean for a certain period of time. I'm not sure what length of time it is and wouldn't tell you if I did. However it's not outlandish, and recruiting recognizes that it's increasingly normal these days for youth to have tried some drugs recreationally, and then to have matured and given them up.

Now, you MUST be utterly honest and up front about it- but I have no reason to believe that you've ruled yourself out for life or anything like that. If you aren't alright yet, you should be before much more of your life has passed.


----------



## Hurricane

Ive heard of applicants being accepted even with previous drug use. However there is a urine test upon enrolment (some say it is only to check for diabetes).


----------



## JorgSlice

Hurricane said:
			
		

> Ive heard of applicants being accepted even with previous drug use. However there is a urine test upon enrolment (some say it is only to check for diabetes).



"Previous" being the key word. Without knowing each case intimately, there's no telling to what extent the "previous" is. For anyone looking to join the CF, let us remind that there is a ZERO TOLERANCE policy for drug use, there is testing performed regularly, and it all falls within the ETHOS of maintaining loyalty, integrity, duty and all of that jazz that we swear to adhere to and honour.


(Aside: I know you're familiar with this, it's not directed at you as more for general reading).


----------



## Cmbtsplst

I just quit smoking weed and im wondering when i should apply, Im looking into the combat arms. I was also wondering if there were and Automatics "DQs" for prior drug history. any and all help would be apreciated but please No smart ass, Rude, or disrespectful comments.


----------



## MikeL

There are a few threads regarding drug use

Short answer:  You need to be drug free for X amount of time before you can apply.  For more info,  search for the other threads regarding prior drug use.

Such as
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/101015.0
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12779/post-53950.html#msg53950
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105963/post-1144375.html#msg1144375
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103813/post-1099246.html#msg1099246


Does Cmbtsplst stand for anything or is it just gibberish?


----------



## brihard

Cmbtsplst said:
			
		

> I just quit smoking weed and im wondering when i should apply, Im looking into the combat arms. I was also wondering if there were and Automatics "DQs" for prior drug history. any and all help would be apreciated but please No smart ***, Rude, or disrespectful comments.



Yes, drug use will automatically disqualify you from entry for certain periods of time depending on what you have used. I don't know the exact timelines for that, and wouldn't tell you anyway.

If you can keep yourself clean for a couple years and prove that you have matured and sorted your life out, come on back and take a shot at it. Until then, don't bother. We don't need drug users, and 'I just quit' doesn't cut it. If joining the military is really something you want, you'll accept that your life choices up until now have made that a non-starter, and that you have to put some time into living a clean enough life that you can be trusted to join our ranks.

Don't even bother getting pissy about the 'rude, disrespectful, smart *** comments' thing. What I've told you is probably about as pink and fuzzy as you're going to get from anyone here, and none of us really care if your feelings are hurt by the blunt, honest answers you're going to get because of your crappy judgement.


----------



## The_Falcon

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Does Cmbtsplst stand for anything or is it just gibberish?



Going to guess Combat Specialist. Probably his/her COD handle or something.


----------



## Cmbtsplst

Thanks for the answers and i was expecting honesty, i want the truth i just didn't want the smart ass remarks regarding it. mostly cause i am trying to get my life together. as for the remark towards my name, Iv been interested in the military since i was a little tot, something i thought was cool years ago and ran with it!


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Cmbtsplst said:
			
		

> please No smart ass, Rude, or disrespectful comments.



_Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries. ... I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King Cmbtsplst," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts._

 ;D


----------



## Cdnleaf

Cmbtsplst said:
			
		

> Thanks for the answers and i was expecting honesty, i want the truth i just didn't want the smart *** remarks regarding it. mostly cause i am trying to get my life together. as for the remark towards my name, Iv been interested in the military since i was a little tot, something i thought was cool years ago and ran with it!



I smoked a final big fatty or two the night before the train ride to Cornwallis - no worries.  Even upon arrival in the Drill Hall there and during our 'orientation' on the line, the trash can was rattling.  Be more concerned with developing some resiliency concerning comments towards your post.


----------



## MikeL

Not the greatest advice there cdnleaf.

Implying that it's ok to get high prior to going to basic.. even ok to bring drugs to BMQ just as long as you throw it out the first night.  


If someone wishes to join the CF,  they must quit doing drugs (illegal and/or abusing prescription medication),  be clean for the minimum amount of time required to start the process.  Also,  stay clean during the entire recruiting process and your time in the Canadian Forces.


----------



## Pieman

Despite all this prevention of drug use, I can't count the number of idiots that lost their spot on tour and were put on C&P because they could not stay off drugs after getting into regiment. 

Great way to stall your career for a good year or two.


----------



## agc

Cmbtsplt, as is often the case in the recruiting threads, the real answer to your question is to get your stuff together and put the application in.  Get the proper advice from the folks in recruiting.  And don't take any more drugs.


----------



## Cdnleaf

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Not the greatest advice there cdnleaf.
> 
> Implying that it's ok to get high prior to going to basic.. even ok to bring drugs to BMQ just as long as you throw it out the first night.
> 
> 
> If someone wishes to join the CF,  they must quit doing drugs (illegal and/or abusing prescription medication),  be clean for the minimum amount of time required to start the process.  Also,  stay clean during the entire recruiting process and your time in the Canadian Forces.



Not my intention to offer adivce, though I apprecaite your clarification regarding.  It was a significantly different culture then, and this occurred in 88; you were 3 at the time    Your advice to the op is spot on.


----------



## Loachman

There is plenty of discussion regarding drugs and the CF on this site. Start reading, and try the search function.

If your username is an abbreviation for "combat specialist", the CF abbreviation for "combat" is "cbt", and you are not a combat specialist. Continuing with that without actually having some real time in will earn you nothing but derision. I suggest that you change it.

Lastly, please use proper spelling, punctuation, grammar, and sentence structure here.


----------



## Train2Survive

_S_ometimes it takes longer for others to mature and take responsibility than others. That doesn't make you any less smart or strong. 

 I grew up as an outdoor enthusiast. I was all about wilderness survival. To stay alive is far more important than how to kill. As they wiped out the huge forest behind my house I had to get into other activities unfortunately I began to run with the wrong crowd. I never did any criminal activities. All I really did was smoke cannabis, drink alcohol and play sports. I have been arrested only for cannabis and being drunk underage. So they weren't violent incidences. It was just the immature decisions that I made at the time. And I acknowledge that now. I no longer drink and I no longer use cannabis, because I have matured and became a better person, both mentally and physically. 

 I am 23 now and I have been traveling around Canada for the past few years. Beautiful country we truly have. Now is the time to start getting my life in order, prioritize for my future and make the right decisions. 

 I wish to become either a Hull technician or a Meteorological technician. I meet the requirements for both. 

 My main question is since I have used cannabis a lot for a number of years will I be rejected? Because this is my biggest fear. I have matured, I am trustworthy and I will tell them about my past. Some people will say don't mention your past cannabis use if you know you will pass the drug test. But I want to, because honesty is an integral part of being a member of the Canadian Forces.


----------



## the tickler

You have nothing to worry about as long as you are completely done with drugs. At the time of my application I had smoked marijuana 4 months prior and experimented with other drugs before that. I was told I "barely made the cutoff" for being clean. I had to meet with one of the recruiters to assure them I was done with drugs and ready to join the forces. Just got a job offer a few weeks ago.


----------



## matt101pwn

Hey,

My CFAT is on Wednesday. I may postpone as I'm still studying. Applied to MP.

Question is, I smoked marajuana and I am wondering if there is a drug test, and I plan to be honest saying I have done it. Will they kick me out and tell me not to apply? Looking for some insight

Thanks.


----------



## mariomike

matt101pwn said:
			
		

> Question is, I smoked marajuana and I am wondering if there is a drug test, and I plan to be honest saying I have done it. Will they kick me out and tell me not to apply? Looking for some insight



Past drug use  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12779.0

"What kind of tests are done in the CF Medical exam? Perticularily pertaining to drug tests...."
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12930/post-55132.html#msg55132

Past drug use (marijuana)
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103813.0


----------



## The Bread Guy

mariomike said:
			
		

> Past drug use
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12779.0
> 
> "What kind of tests are done in the CF Medical exam? Perticularily pertaining to drug tests...."
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12930/post-55132.html#msg55132
> 
> Past drug use (marijuana)
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103813.0


 :crystalball:
I see a merge coming ....

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## shadesofgreen

I'm freaking out now. When I went to do my CFAT, they had us fill in a paper about past drug use (you had to check whatever you had done, say when was the first and last time and how many time you did it). I was honest (and kind of regretting it now...) and admitted to having used marijuana 10 times. I just saw that you cannot have had done it fot at least 6 months. Last time I did it was in october (not 6 months ago obviously...It was at an initiation thing for a sport team and it was in a cookie....but that dosen't really matter) but all the other times where a while ago...It was soooo stupid and I'm not planning on ever doing it again. 

I'm guessing I'm out now?


----------



## KerryBlue

shadesofgreen said:
			
		

> I was honest (and kind of regretting it now...) and admitted to having used marijuana 10 times. I just saw that you cannot have had done it fot at least 6 months. Last time I did it was in october (not 6 months ago obviously...It was at an initiation thing for a sport team



You did the right thing and came clean with your drug use, so kudos for that. You will more then likely have to wait until six months go by until the Canadian Forces do anything with your application. 

What I don't understand is what sports team would make marijuana part of the initiation. When I played football pot was a no-no because we got drug tested, it was the way in highschool, when I played team ontario and when I played university. Drugs and sports do not mix, so I'm thinking there's more to it then just sports initiation.


----------



## shadesofgreen

KerryBlue said:
			
		

> You did the right thing and came clean with your drug use, so kudos for that. You will more then likely have to wait until six months go by until the Canadian Forces do anything with your application.
> 
> What I don't understand is what sports team would make marijuana part of the initiation. When I played football pot was a no-no because we got drug tested, it was the way in highschool, when I played team ontario and when I played university. Drugs and sports do not mix, so I'm thinking there's more to it then just sports initiation.



It was not PART of the initiation (it was just a random detail I added). The initiation was pretty much like a party where all the rookies from the guy and girl's team had to do these sort of challenges..but yeah during the time where we we just hanging out some guy started going around with some and I stupidly took one. I was a little drunk at that point so my decision making skills where not at its best. I know that is not an excuse at all obviously. Like I said, I realize it was pretty stupid.

After the tests and doing the ''past drug use'' thing, we had to wait to meet with a recruiter to look over our papers. He did not mention anything about the drugs (but then again maybe he just didn't look at it). He told me the jobs I had put on my application where not in high demend right now and that I should call back in 2 months if they haven't already called me to see where my application is at. 

But yeah, I'm guessing that when they take a closer look at it,  my application will be rejected or I'll have to re-apply in a few months.


----------



## brihard

shadesofgreen said:
			
		

> I'm freaking out now. When I went to do my CFAT, they had us fill in a paper about past drug use (you had to check whatever you had done, say when was the first and last time and how many time you did it). I was honest (and kind of regretting it now...) and admitted to having used marijuana 10 times. I just saw that you cannot have had done it fot at least 6 months. Last time I did it was in october (not 6 months ago obviously...It was at an initiation thing for a sport team and it was in a cookie....but that dosen't really matter) but all the other times where a while ago...It was soooo stupid and I'm not planning on ever doing it again.
> 
> I'm guessing I'm out now?



If the recruiting team is doing their job, then yes, you should be out of luck until that period of time passes. I you don't even have the fortitude or the maturity to say no to drugs knowing that you're trying to get in the military, then frankly we can easily afford to pass you over in favour of someone with better judgment.

Get your act together, grow up and smarten up, and reapply once the window is again open for you.


----------



## shadesofgreen

Brihard said:
			
		

> If the recruiting team is doing their job, then yes, you should be out of luck until that period of time passes. I you don't even have the fortitude or the maturity to say no to drugs knowing that you're trying to get in the military, then frankly we can easily afford to pass you over in favour of someone with better judgment.
> 
> Get your act together, grow up and smarten up, and reapply once the window is again open for you.



Obviously I did not know I was gonna apply for the military at the time, or else I would have refused for sure. I know that dosen't change the fact that I didn't. My act is together. I made a few mistake...I'm not some low-life pothead. Trust me this was very out of character for me. Even my closest friends where socked when I told them I had done it.


----------



## brihard

shadesofgreen said:
			
		

> Obviously I did not know I was gonna apply for the military at the time, or else I would have refused for sure. I know that dosen't change the fact that I didn't. My act is together. I made a few mistake...I'm not some low-life pothead. Trust me this was very out of character for me. Even my closest friends where socked when I told them I had done it.



You admit in your first post to having used marijuana about ten times. That doesn't suggest to me that you using it again recently was out of character.

You're correct: None of this changes the facts of your poor decision, and if you don't like hearing it when you ask, go to pinkfuzzyhugs.com or something. Those of us within the institution you wish to join (and I give you credit for that) have no time for bull****, and when you've made the same decision repeatedly, to cede any benefit of the doubt.

With that said: You're 19. Kids do dumb stuff, and then they typically grow out of it. Hopefully you do too. Most of us have some sort of stupidity in our past that we're matured beyond. So prove your dedication to this course of action, keep your nose clean, don't get in a snit when you get a straight answer you don't like, and move on from your errors when the fullness of time allows you to do so.

Good luck. I mean that genuinely. I always like seeing people who can get it together and find success.


----------



## shadesofgreen

Brihard said:
			
		

> You admit in your first post to having used marijuana about ten times. That doesn't suggest to me that you using it again recently was out of character.
> 
> You're correct: None of this changes the facts of your poor decision, and if you don't like hearing it when you ask, go to pinkfuzzyhugs.com or something. Those of us within the institution you wish to join (and I give you credit for that) have no time for bull****, and when you've made the same decision repeatedly, to cede any benefit of the doubt.
> 
> With that said: You're 19. Kids do dumb stuff, and then they typically grow out of it. Hopefully you do too. Most of us have some sort of stupidity in our past that we're matured beyond. So prove your dedication to this course of action, keep your nose clean, don't get in a snit when you get a straight answer you don't like, and move on from your errors when the fullness of time allows you to do so.
> 
> Good luck. I mean that genuinely. I always like seeing people who can get it together and find success.



I meant using it in general was out of character not just the recent one. Anyways, it doesn't matter.
I wanna apologize though, my comment was pretty stupid and unnecessary. I didn't mean to come off like that. I'm kind of upset with myself at the moment and I kind of took it out on you.
Thanks for the replies!


----------



## brihard

shadesofgreen said:
			
		

> I meant using it in general was out of character not just the recent one. Anyways, it doesn't matter.
> I wanna apologize though, my comment was pretty stupid and unnecessary. I didn't mean to come off like that. I'm kind of upset with myself at the moment and I kind of took it out on you.
> Thanks for the replies!



Apology accepted, thanks. It is what it is, don't get too worked up about it. Keep yourself busy, use the time to continue getting in shape, and you'll find the time will pass more quickly than you'd expect.


----------



## Matt_k

I don't know if this topic is already answered/finished with.

It doesn't really matter about the drug use, during my CFAT I had to fill out my drug questionnaire. I was the first to receive it, and the last one to hand it back in, to paint the picture, and it ranged from marijuana to cocaine, everything in between.

What they concerned about is that you have made a change, and shown that you have had some time away from those negative activities, and you are making more positive choices. But DON NOT lie about the past, because if they fine out, your done basically forever with no "detachment from illegal activity period". 

Hope this helps.


----------



## The_Falcon

Matt_k said:
			
		

> I don't know if this topic is already answered/finished with.
> 
> It doesn't really matter about the drug use, during my CFAT I had to fill out my drug questionnaire. I was the first to receive it, and the last one to hand it back in, to paint the picture, and it ranged from marijuana to cocaine, everything in between.
> 
> *What they concerned about is that you have made a change, and shown that you have had some time away from those negative activities, and you are making more positive choices.*



No what they are concerned about is whether or not you have a substance abuse problem, and whether or not your prior use has had had a negative effect on you from a physiological/psychological standpoint that would preclude you from dealing with highly stressful situations that often require a high degree of mental acuity.  MCC and Recruiters may tell you some line about making the right choices etc, which is entirely subjective, and not at all how things really work.  The truth is as I stated, they have a matrix which they must adhere to.  This matrix was developed by medical professionals to determine whether or not your synapses are fried or not.


----------



## Matt_k

Well, I was offered a job with no questions asked about my past use, so time obviously has some impact. Or maybe I sounded fine during my medical interview, and not like a burn out? either way. My point was it doesn't matter how extensive your past experiences are; not to lie and see where it goes from there.


----------



## The_Falcon

Matt_k said:
			
		

> Well, I was offered a job with no questions asked about my past use, so time obviously has some impact.


Because the decision is based on a matrix, period.  X Drug + Y number of Times +Z timeframe= Good to go, refer to med staff, or halt process.  



> My point was it doesn't matter how extensive your past experiences are; not to lie and see where it goes from there.



Your point is irrelevant, because you do not know what you are talking about.  I do, I worked in recruiting. Your past experience does absolutely matter, see above, for how the decision is reached.


----------



## KotaSkyy

Nope


----------



## Michael OLeary

Check this Google search: site:army.ca pot smoked "6 months"


----------



## nn1988

KotaSkyy said:
			
		

> [...] I'll change  babe I  promise. [...]



 :-\

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort." - Herm Albright


----------



## George Wallace

KotaSkyy said:
			
		

> Okay so, I know this has been discussed before in the forums but it didn't really hit the answer I was looking for.



You read the forums on this matter?

What different answer did you expect to hear?

The answers given cover the matter in detail.  If you can't fathom what was discussed, please seek help from a qualified person at a CFRC who can explain the implications and resulting criteria that need to be met before joining the CAF.


----------



## KotaSkyy

K yeah, I get it.. I shouldve looked harder im retarded yeah yeah..


----------



## ComDvr13

Having been sober for a year with the exception of a glass of scotch or wine with/after dinner and an odd party or two every few months I have this to say. 

Smoking marijuana heavily through grade school (gr. 5 to past gr. 12) in northern Alberta I feel like I am who I am because of my use and probably wouldn't have even applied to the army without my past. I'd have done better in school and gone to a trade or perhaps something else. I tried mushrooms 4 times starting with my graduation celebration (irony huh) and later tried LSD. Had a terrible, literally, raging experience on it. I was drunk, smoked up, it was Halloween and LSD sounded interesting. Without this experience I wouldn't have gotten sober. It literally scared me straight being that out of control. It made me turn my life around, I have always been a pretty cool guy, drummer, guitarist, mechanically inclined (welding, machining, mechanics, landscaping, machinery operation, etc), I'm sporty/fit, intelligent despite "dead brain cells (load of BS)," extremely good with people in person (online I get aggressive lol) and I have just become a much better person since sobering up.

I passed the CFAT, qualified for almost every trade, was honest with my exact usage on the medical form and the recruiter pulled me into a room, said "got a busy history here son" we chuckled and talked, he realized I squared myself away, I got professional diving certs and am a master scuba diver trainer (PADI - excellent leadership training btw) and first aid instructor. They are scheduling my medical and interview early Jan. Doesn't seem like I have to wait 3 years due to hallucinogens so I think they make exceptions based on their overall experience with you, might be wrong and they may tell me I have to wait, but why would they go ahead and book me in the new year for med/interview ? Idk, maybe they'll tell me after the medical, which would come up clean. Doesn't make sense to waste their resources and they didn't say anything regarding 3 year wait at all. 

Anyway point is, despite heavy use, with honesty and integrity, some confidence to fess up and be a mature man/lady they'll give you a chance. I really hate all you anti-pot people, it has great benefits and smoking happens to be the best method of dosage, thc pills don't really work so that argument is invalid. Sure, it should be regulated and medical cards need to be respected and not abused so the people who genuinely need it can get it. I however also believe the forces require sobriety, even from heavy alcohol use and I hear that issue is pretty prevalent, perhaps more in America idk how bad it is with CAF. 

My past use of pot, however illicit, made me extremely creative/crafty (not cunning or manipulative - had people misinterpret crafty) and seek out experiences that sculpted ironically my responsibility, leadership and appreciation/general respect be it for nature, fellow man or what have you. Some fine traits I would think.. Sure I can be an asshole but that's more personality than past drug experimentation. I think if you haven't tried drugs (don't go starting now though) you are less (perhaps) dynamic of a character, kinda mundane without some altered consciousness experiences.

 I wouldn't say these people are any less awesome or anything, they just can't really connect to say 90% of the rest of society on that level. They might not be able to feel sympathy for the out of control street people who couldn't control themselves, which is sad, not something to be scoffed at as many "sober-lifers" I know do (well if I can do why can't everyone-people). Some of the best memories that I'll cherish forever involved friends, or being alone in nature, a little high, and sometimes sober. Deal with it. If you met me you'd trust me in the trenches with your life too. Just fun facts and my humble opinion on this subject as I have been quite involve for a few years.

Good luck and sorry for any typos, I'm on a greyhound to visit family for Christmas and I'm typing on my phone. 
Happy holidays :snowman:


----------



## Fishbone Jones

D!V3R-13 said:
			
		

> I really hate all you anti-pot people, it has great benefits and smoking happens to be the best method of dosage, thc pills don't really work so that argument is invalid. Sure, it should be regulated and medical cards need to be respected and not abused so the people who genuinely need it can get it. I however also believe the forces require sobriety, even from heavy alcohol use and I hear that issue is pretty prevalent, perhaps more in America idk how bad it is with CAF.
> 
> My past use of pot, however illicit, made me extremely creative/crafty (not cunning or manipulative - had people misinterpret crafty) and seek out experiences that sculpted ironically my responsibility, leadership and appreciation/general respect be it for nature, fellow man or what have you. Some fine traits I would think.. Sure I can be an asshole but that's more personality than past drug experimentation. I think if you haven't tried drugs (don't go starting now though) you are less (perhaps) dynamic of a character, kinda mundane without some altered consciousness experiences.
> 
> I wouldn't say these people are any less awesome or anything, they just can't really connect to say 90% of the rest of society on that level. They might not be able to feel sympathy for the out of control street people who couldn't control themselves, which is sad, not something to be scoffed at as many "sober-lifers" I know do (well if I can do why can't everyone-people). Some of the best memories that I'll cherish forever involved friends, or being alone in nature, a little high, and sometimes sober. Deal with it. If you met me you'd trust me in the trenches with your life too. Just fun facts and my humble opinion on this subject as I have been quite involve for a few years.



Experimentation? That's what you call, self admitted, heavy marijuana use from Gr 5 thru Gr 12? :rofl:

Heavy abuse of a number of different illicit substances over a period of years doesn't make you an expert, to be offering medical opinions or counseling life decisions. It makes you a drug addict.

Just fun facts and my humble opinion on this subject. :gottree:


----------



## flatlander13

D!V3R-13 said:
			
		

> ... I really hate all you anti-pot people...





			
				D!V3R-13 said:
			
		

> My past use of pot... sculpted ironically my responsibility, leadership and appreciation/general respect be it for nature, fellow man or what have you...



Appreciation and respect for fellow man you say? The irony of those two statements is baffling. :facepalm:

Please keep your opinion and expert advice to yourself and don't offend those who have chosen to occupy their time with socially productive activities by calling them mundane, less dynamic and unable to connect to 90% of society. Again, just my humble opinion...


----------



## Jarnhamar

D!V3R-13 you were smoking pot in grade 5?

You should give your parents a blast of shit this Christmas visit.


----------



## PMedMoe

D!V3R-13 said:
			
		

> Smoking marijuana heavily through grade school (gr. 5 to past gr. 12) in northern Alberta I feel like I am who I am because of my use and probably wouldn't have even applied to the army without my past. I'd have done better in school and gone to a trade or perhaps something else.



So, you're saying the CF is only good for ex-druggies who didn't do well in school?   Nice....   :


----------



## The_Falcon

D!V3R-13 said:
			
		

> I passed the CFAT, qualified for almost every trade, was honest with my exact usage on the medical form and the recruiter pulled me into a room, said "got a busy history here son" we chuckled and talked, he realized I squared myself away, I got professional diving certs and am a master scuba diver trainer (PADI - excellent leadership training btw) and first aid instructor. They are scheduling my medical and interview early Jan. Doesn't seem like I have to wait 3 years due to hallucinogens so I think they make exceptions based on their overall experience with you, might be wrong and they may tell me I have to wait, but why would they go ahead and book me in the new year for med/interview ? Idk, maybe they'll tell me after the medical, which would come up clean. Doesn't make sense to waste their resources and they didn't say anything regarding 3 year wait at all.
> 
> Anyway point is, despite heavy use, with honesty and integrity, some confidence to fess up and be a mature man/lady they'll give you a chance.



It seems your past use, has impaired your cognitive reading abilities, as I explained a few posts above, whether or not you are screened out on drug use is entirely OBJECTIVE.  Meaning, the person doing your interview, and medical staff, don't have leeway in their decision.  If the math for your past use=take a pass, then that is precisely what will happen.  



> My past use of pot, however illicit, made me extremely creative/crafty (not cunning or manipulative - had people misinterpret crafty) and seek out experiences that sculpted ironically my responsibility, leadership and appreciation/general respect be it for nature, fellow man or what have you. Some fine traits I would think.. Sure I can be an ******* but that's more personality than past drug experimentation. I think if you haven't tried drugs (don't go starting now though) you are less (perhaps) dynamic of a character, kinda mundane without some altered consciousness experiences.
> 
> I wouldn't say these people are any less awesome or anything, they just can't really connect to say 90% of the rest of society on that level. They might not be able to feel sympathy for the out of control street people who couldn't control themselves, which is sad, not something to be scoffed at as many "sober-lifers" I know do (well if I can do why can't everyone-people). Some of the best memories that I'll cherish forever involved friends, or being alone in nature, a little high, and sometimes sober. Deal with it.



Right....... :



> If you met me you'd trust me in the trenches with your life too. Just fun facts and my humble opinion on this subject as I have been quite involve for a few years.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....oh you are being serious.......keep dreaming.


----------



## George Wallace

Well.  We do have a term for this type of person:  "A Legend in his/her own mind."


----------



## GAP

Is this one of the elves Santa fired?  :nod:

for drug use...... :


----------



## Deeay

Hi there everyone,

So I have a quick question regarding processing and past substance use. I sent in my application to find employment within the Canadian Forces as an infantry soldier or combat engineer(Reg Force). I soon later heard back from them and booked my CFAT. I qualified for the trades I selected and when asked to fill out the form regarding past drug use I answered honestly. About 3 years ago I used marijuana for roughly 3 months before stopping because I was not happy with the choices I made. I have matured immensely since then and I am very excited for the opportunity to be able to serve my country. My question is will the Forces hold my past against me? Im supposed to call on Wednesday to confirm a date for my medical, but im just worried that my honesty may lead to disaster, and me not being considered as a candidate for my trade. Thankyou!


----------



## The_Falcon

Seriously??  I pulled up 7 threads, including the MASSIVE 41 page thread on this topic.  Your post and situation is in now way shape or form unique.  Start reading. 

And for the record ANYONE professing to know whether or not certain kinds of drug use is acceptable, and is not a MILITARY CAREER COUNSELOR, currently looking at an applicant file AND the current guidlines is talking out of their a$$ and needs to stay in their lane.

LOCKED.

Hatchet Man
Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## The_Falcon

I have consolidated several more threads into this, locked and stickied it.  At 42 pages in length (might take a few hours to read..so what) if you can't find your answers (unlikely) and are still worried about whether your use disqualifies you, then you will just have to roll the dice and accept the consequences for the poor life decisions YOU made. 

Any further posts I find will be removed, and I have asked my fellow DS to do like wise.  If this bothers you, PM one of us, and we can discuss it with you (note you probably won't like what we have to say). 

Hatchet Man
Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## George Wallace

This was raised in another thread by a few who thought drug use in foreign jurisdictions where certain practices illegal here were considered decriminalized:




			
				locomoco said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I lurked through the Drug Use Mega Threat but could not find an answer to my question.
> 
> Previously I spent time living in Europe as part of an exchange program. During that time, I smoked marijuana regularly. Where I was living, it was heavily decriminalized and very tolerated. If I applied, I am prepared to admit this on my application but I am curious to know how this affects me
> 
> Would the same standard of 6 months without usage apply to me or would it have to be longer?
> 
> thanks



Drug use is drug use, no matter where it was done.  The Canadian Armed Forces policies on smoking Marijuana (all drug use) apply no matter where (in the world) you may have smoked it (used).

Also in reply to that Thread:



			
				Brihard said:
			
		

> Guess what kids: You're trying to join the Canadian Military. Nobody gives a rat's ass about your barracks room lawyering about your drug abuse; ('heavily decriminalized' is not the same as 'legal'). We have lots of people knocking at the door. We can readily fill our ranks with people who have exhibited better judgment than to abuse drugs because they could get away with it. You didn't just decide to join the military yesterday, presumably- you've had this as a plan for a while.
> 
> If you have that much concern over 'the realm of control the government has over an individual', this is probably the wrong organization for you- and I say that as someone who is a STRONG believer in civil liberties, but also an infantry NCO. Given that you can face a charge under the national defence act (federal legislation) for showing up five minutes late for work or telling your boss to eff off, you may take it as a given that somewhat stricter standards and expectations are applied to the military.
> 
> There are plenty of members of the CF who have done stupid things in the past (and drug use is stupid), but they accepted whatever consequences resulted, and they sorted themselves out over time. Be prepared for a potentially lengthy wait if you have recent drug use. Simply put- until we are sure that we can get a proper estimation of your judgment, we don't need you. If my answer offends you, too bad.



REMEMBER this:

You are applying for employment in Canada, and Canadian Laws apply, not foreign laws.


----------



## GraemeCaughill

Alright,
so i have gotten past my formal interview and had a great medical. i was asked after my cfat to explain my past usage of marijuana in highschool, both the officer who gave me my CFAT results and my file manager passed off my file as being clear to continue and with my honesty they saw no issues. i was asked a few questions about drugs in my medical interview but nothing major. After my file returned from the RMO i was sent a letter saying that due to my past usage i would have to administer a urinary drug test and an assessment of drug addiction. i have no issues with doing the tests as i have absolutely nothing to hide and have been totally clean for over 5 years, but my question is more with the reasoning to why this would have happened if my file had been cleared on those issues already? i was also told that i wasnt supposed to have my medical until may 1st but i had it april 10th. the officer after my CFAT made it clear and had me initial my sheet that i had not been in contact with drugs for sometime and my file wouldnt have been held. but it still showed up to my medical officer that i wasnt supposed to have my medical until may.

again, i have nothing to hide and am happy to show them i am a clean and sober individual, however this has been a strange event and sort of worry some to me. i am hoping my new wait for my medical to return from the RMO wont be too long!!

sorry for the length, but any insights or previous experiences like this would be appreciated! thanks!


----------



## PuckChaser

The CAF wants a medical professional to assess your addiction (due to previous use). Just like they can't take your word for it that the broken back you had in high school is "fine now" (just an example here, not personally linked), they likely want someone to assess that you're as clean as you say you are. Recruiting Center has no control on what the MO wants to certify you as medically fit, but as you said you have nothing to hide, so jump through the hoop. Consider it practice for your career in the CAF, constant hoop-jumping.


----------



## JoeDos

Just out of curiosity, I tried marijuana once in 2009 hated the way it made me feel. Will I likely have to do the same thing? I was honest with them but it would suck waiting 6 weeks to get notified that I have to jump through this hoop.


----------



## PMedMoe

To the OP:  I'm glad someone else answered your question as I was trying to figure out just what it was you were asking.  All I got out of it was that they want you to do a urine test for drugs. (I think....).  The rest of it about the date for the medical seemed to be unnecessary.  Anyway, if you were honest, then, as you say, you have nothing to worry about.

Just a couple pieces of advice here.  One:  Please start using proper capitalization, punctuation, etc.  I hope you read the guidelines when you joined, asking that English or French be used to the best of your ability.  Two:  Before starting a new topic (you've started four, for issues that have been covered here), do a search.  I'm not saying don't ask your questions, I'm saying I'm sure there's threads already here that would be appropriate for those questions to be asked in.  That makes it so much easier when someone else is searching later.

Just my  :2c:


----------



## The_Falcon

Locked.   See the massive drug use thread for further information

HM

Staff.


----------



## armydreamin

Hey guys,

Been looking into applying for quite some time. I'm just curious as to how long it has to have been since the last time or if you ever has used any anabolics or anything for you to be eligible to apply for the Army.

Used steroids when I was young and dumb back in high school, lots of people using where I'm from. That was about a year ago. Would I be okay to go through with the application?

I know for things like weed it was a 6 month wait before you're okay to apply, but I never used that stuff. 

Any info on this would be appreciated. 

I was obviously going to admit to it on the medical questionnaire. As well, my doctor kind of knows about the AAS usage, will go see him and confirm if it's on my medical records. I don't know if it is, would I be able to ask for that sort of information?


----------



## armydreamin

Thank you, but the only thing I can't seem to find is does the 6 month rule apply to all drugs? As steroids are the only ones I've done. 

As well, are there members in the Military on TRT? I had my bloods checked and they are low ever since that mistake I made. If I were to get a script for TRT, would this make me ineligible for a position in the Army?


----------



## CombatDoc

armydreamin said:
			
		

> Thank you, but the only thing I can't seem to find is does the 6 month rule apply to all drugs? As steroids are the only ones I've done.
> 
> As well, are there members in the Military on TRT? I had my bloods checked and they are low ever since that mistake I made. If I were to get a script for TRT, would this make me ineligible for a position in the Army?


Only the Recruiting Medical Officer can answer that, and they don't respond to enrollment medical questions on this board. See your recruiting centre if you're interested in joining.


----------



## cryco

armydreamin said:
			
		

> I was obviously going to admit to it on the medical questionnaire. As well, my doctor kind of knows about the AAS usage, will go see him and confirm if it's on my medical records. I don't know if it is, would I be able to ask for that sort of information?



You are allowed, at any time, to go through your medical records. You can request a copy from your doc.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/want-your-medical-records-be-prepared-to-pay-a-lot/article9755471/

Btw, it doesn't always cost a lot, but I've always been charged between 20-50 for such types of services, since I go to a semi-private clinic (they charge for everything, assuming your insurance will cover it - greedy bast....)


----------



## The_Falcon

Merged with prior drug use thread

Amrydreamin, read this entire thread, including the posts I made regarding how long you have to wait.  And no I will not unlock this, or allow you to post any other topics in this regard. Also don't even think of PM'ing me to reconsider or answer questions until you have read this entire thread. 

Hatchet Man
Staff


----------



## Dreamac

After searching through the forums, I was unable to find a solid answer to this question.

My husband applied last week and has his aptitude test next week.  We are concerned about one aspect of the interview and medical.

During his teen years, my husband experimented with drugs, not just marijuana.  He hasn't used any drugs for nearly 10 years (he is 27).  He, like many young people, got in with a wrong crowd in high school.  Could his previous drug use prevent him from being accepted?  When asked if he's a drug user, should he acknowledge his previous drug use?  He was not an addict, just a typical experimenting teenager.

Thanks in advance,

DreaMac

(I apologize if this question has been asked and answered previously.  If it has, could you please provide a link, as I cannot find it.)


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

http://army.ca/forums/threads/12779.0.html


----------



## Leeworthy

Your hubby will be asked about drug use, what and when during his application process. He will also be asked about it in detail when he does his interview. It is up to the recruiters doing his file as to what the outcome will be.


----------



## Dreamac

I've read through the merged thread on drug use questions, but have not seen anything relevant to our situation.

I realize that it is case by case, but I am more curious about the general rule on things.

For instance, if you tried cocaine, 10-11 years ago, never having done it again, could this prevent you from being accepted?  Most of the posts I have read are about pot with a few about PCP.  What about Ecstacy?  Didn't see anything about that either.  If you tried X 10-11 years ago, could that prevent you from getting accepted?  

I read through 44 pages of forum looking for an answer, and I've seen nothing on the drugs I am curious about, and the 10-11 year since using.  Most are 2 years or less.

Thanks.


----------



## George Wallace

Dreamac

Drugs.....Illegal drugs....All drugs that are not prescribed by a doctor or legally sold over the counter, apply to the question about past drug use.  If in 44 pages you have not read of any cases similar to what may apply to your husband in this situation, there is not much we can say.  It will be up to your husband to answer truthfully to any questions concerning this matter during his application process.  Can we tell you here what the outcome will be?  NO.  It will be a decision made at the Recruiting Center your husband is visiting.


----------



## ryanjenkins

I have had my application accepted, however I realize I will have to do a medical sooner or later and I know a drug test is part of that. I am really worried as I have experimented with marijuana in the recent past and I want to know if I should be worried.

Thanks


----------



## ryanjenkins

Thanks. This is from '02. Has anything changed?


----------



## ryanjenkins

mariomike said:
			
		

> Last post: July 18, 2015



Okay thanks. Oh and one last question somewhat unrelated. Does the medical include a blood test?


----------



## medicineman

CanadaWest said:
			
		

> Okay thanks. Oh and one last question somewhat unrelated. Does the medical include a blood test?



Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  It's a coin flip thing we do for random reasons.

MM


----------



## Pwegman

Have you done your CFAT ? Because after you've done it they pass you a form when you have to write down all non prescribed drug that you have tried or use. And this is where you may have a hold up on you application process, if its been less than a year since the last time you make some usage of weed. . I was in the same boat, i choose to be honest  and  I had to wait 1 year because of pass use, before being allowed to continue my recruiting process and that's probably whats going to happen there for you. But important thing , don't lie about that . - sorry for my english. and Good luck for the rest of your process.


----------



## Loachman

Merged.

Again.

CanadaWest - Please research older threads prior to asking repetitive questions again.


----------



## Centril

I was looking around for a decisive answer concerning use of cocaine in the past. 

Simply put, does past cocaine use disqualify a candidate for entry into the Canadian forces? I couldn't find any information stating that any drug would be an end all, though most of it was about marijuana. I had briefly experimented with it (cocaine), didn't care for it, got over it quickly and moved on. 

Thank you for all input.


----------



## Ksiiqtaboo

Just be honest when filling out the paperwork about how many times you have done it etc. if they find it to be an issue they will tell you, worst that will happen is you will be told to wait a year then reapply or the forces arent for you.


----------



## mariomike

Centril said:
			
		

> I was looking around for a decisive answer concerning use of cocaine in the past.





			
				Centril said:
			
		

> Simply put, does past cocaine use disqualify a candidate for entry into the Canadian forces?



This may help,

Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12779.0
45 pages.


----------



## mitch.gray

Greetings everyone,

I am just trying to find some more information on previous drug use. How long after quitting smoking marijuana, should one wait before applying to the CAF?

look forward to any responces


----------



## The Bread Guy

Welcome to "doing research", mitch.gray - enjoy!

*Milnet.ca Staff*


----------



## mmmj

Hi. I always wanted to join the forces and finally decided to go for it. I went in for my aptitude test today and at the end we were all given questionnaires about past drug use (non prescribed). I have consumed cannabis in the past but quit months ago just for joining the army and have no intention of lighting up again. When asked about past marijuana use i got worried they would not accept me and I lied about not using marijuana in the past. Now i am even more worried about this coming back and ruining my chances at joining. I have been busted for marijuana possession in the past but never charged. i just wanted to know if i completely ruined my chances or should i go in and tell them i lied as soon as possible, or worse keep lying. Please i want answers.


----------



## Inspir

You lied. Your integrity will always be called into question now.


----------



## Loachman

Go and fix your mistake, and tell them why you made it. It is not so much the mistakes that we make that counts, as how we deal with them.

People get nervous. Most people understand that.

And few of us here are in serious contention for sainthood.


----------



## OrganishChemiker

Hello,

I have been looking through this thread and cannot see the answer to my question and I also tried to the search function, so I hope this isn't redundant.

I'm applying for direct entry officer.  I have an upcoming aptitude and personality test.  I've seen a few people say that after the aptitude tests, questionnaires about prior drug use are handed out.  Is this still done?

I have no problem discussing prior drug use in detail with a  CAF doctor.  I understand that is part of the process and I am fine with it.  I am uncomfortable with the idea of being given a form with a whole bunch of questions about what I've used and when and then just handing that form off to someone (who, a recruiter?).  Can anyone offer any insight into what reaction I might get if I say that I can't answer the questions on that form right then?  Or do they even hand out those forms after the aptitude tests any more?


----------



## MedCorps

I would suggest that if you are not prepared to discuss your previous drug use with a member of the recruiting staff / members of the recruiting staff, you need not apply to the Canadian Armed Forces. 

Exploring your previous use of drugs and if it affects suitability for employment is not solely a medical concern, but also has a security, general employment and recruiting policy nexus which is the responsibility of the recruiting staff and not the medical staff.  

MC


----------



## OrganishChemiker

I don't have a problem discussing any of this in detail. I'm uncomfortable with just being handed a form to fill out and just handing it off to someone.

I completely expected to be asked about prior drug use. I know it could be a deal breaker. I accept that.

I know prior drug use is a legitimate concern. I am willing to share this info with anyone who really needs to know but I don't want to advertise it or tell anyone who does not really need to know.

  I'm willing to provide whatever medical documentation is required and discuss it in detail. I completely expected to have to get in to uncomfortable subject matter whether it is prior drug use or something else I haven't anticipated. That's fine so I don't think my discomfort with how these kinds of questions are asked should mean that I should not apply. 

I asked my GP about this and he said he knows and works with two MDs in the CAF and they handle recruit screening so I got some insight. 

I am entirely prepared to talk about drug use even if I was scheduled to go in today. For example, suppose I went in today, expressed my discomfort and they said that I could just talk to an MO first. I would be fine with that because I could ask who needs to know what. I guess I am looking for information about confidentiality because I am only willing to talk about it with people who need to know. It isn't that I am unwilling or unprepared to discuss any of this. My past is my past and I'm not going to hide it from those who need to know in the CAF.


----------



## PuckChaser

It isn't a fire or forget piece of paper, unless things have changed. They give you the form, you fill it out, and then they discuss with you in the interview phase about each drug and past/current habits.

The biggest thing is don't lie, it WILL come back to haunt you later on in your career, if not immediately during the recruiting process. This information on your drug use is also not going to be discussed at the water cooler. It's a sheet of paper that goes in your file, that only the recruiting staff sees. If you're acceptable and enrolled, that means your past drug use was acceptable to the CAF in that they believe you will abide by our zero tolerance policies, and then the file gets sealed. Its not going to follow you around unless you're applying for TS and above security clearances (which is where lying on the form haunts you)


----------



## Eye In The Sky

OrganishChemiker said:
			
		

> I don't have a problem discussing any of this in detail. I'm uncomfortable with just being handed a form to fill out and just handing it off to someone.
> 
> I completely expected to be asked about prior drug use. I know it could be a deal breaker. I accept that.
> 
> I know prior drug use is a legitimate concern. I am willing to share this info with anyone who really needs to know but I don't want to advertise it or tell anyone who does not really need to know.
> 
> I'm willing to provide whatever medical documentation is required and discuss it in detail. I completely expected to have to get in to uncomfortable subject matter whether it is prior drug use or something else I haven't anticipated. That's fine so I don't think my discomfort with how these kinds of questions are asked should mean that I should not apply.
> 
> I asked my GP about this and he said he knows and works with two MDs in the CAF and they handle recruit screening so I got some insight.
> 
> I am entirely prepared to talk about drug use even if I was scheduled to go in today. For example, suppose I went in today, expressed my discomfort and they said that I could just talk to an MO first. I would be fine with that because I could ask who needs to know what. I guess I am looking for information about confidentiality because I am only willing to talk about it with people who need to know. It isn't that I am unwilling or unprepared to discuss any of this. My past is my past and I'm not going to hide it from those who need to know in the CAF.



How about you either (1) apply to the CAF and accept the way we recruit or (2) don't apply.  You're not a special snowflake.  If you used in the past, that's on you.  The CAF shouldn't have to accommodate your discomfort over your past stupid choices.

This generation of "I don't like this, you should change for me" people really drives me.  You come off as one of them.

Do the recruiting process like everyone else.  Or don't.  We have enough special snowflakes in society, we don't need them in  the military (and there are enough of them these days in uniform as well...).

The CAF has decided 'who really needs to know' about your drug use.  As stated, its not just MOs.


----------



## PuckChaser

On that same note, if you can't own up to your past drug use, how can you expect your subordinates to own up and speak to you if they have a drug problem? You're applying to be an officer in the Regular Force, that means if you have troops under you, their problems become your problems.


----------



## George Wallace

Let's put it this way; the doctor is not the person who will be hiring you.

The recruiter is the person who is sifting through all the information and making the decisions as to whom the CAF hire.  If a recruiter feels that a person is not being truthful or otherwise deceptive in their application, they will terminate that application.


----------



## OrganishChemiker

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> On that same note, if you can't own up to your past drug use, how can you expect your subordinates to own up and speak to you if they have a drug problem?



I do not have any problem admitting to or talking about any of my past drug use in detail with those who need to know. 

You have a good point about being able to have subordinates trust me.  This seems to be a bit of a tricky problem, because I do see some attitudes that suggest if a person has ever smoked pot that they aren't reliable at all.  I think I could run into that kind of attitude, so it would be pretty stupid to tell people under me right off the bat about everything, nor do I think that it would be necessary or expected of me to tell them everything.  I think it is reasonable that I should have some discretion about it (and again, in terms of telling people who do not need to know).  

Of course I wouldn't want subordinates to feel that they can't approach me, especially if it were about a drug problem.  I'm sure that members of the military who do develop drug problems while on active duty must be incredibly fearful of being judged by their peers and facing negative consequences - much more so than people in civilian life.  I don't think it would be an easy balance because I think being too open with people who don't yet know you might lose confidence in you if you disclose too much right away.  It does take time to develop trust with people.



> You're applying to be an officer in the Regular Force, that means if you have troops under you, their problems become your problems.



You do have a very good point and I appreciate your feedback.  I think personal questions like these are anxiety provoking for most people.  I think it would be more worrying if an applicant were happy to list all of the drugs they have ever used because it would almost be like they are happy to brag about it.  I think this thread largely exists because it's normal for people to get anxious about being asked personal questions, especially when it involves things that they aren't entirely happy about and that people might judge them for.  I hope I've made clear that I do not have a problem admitting to any drug use.  Most of my drug use was over ten years ago anyway.  

Still, let's put it this way: I've never intravenously administered a drug to myself, but if someone asked me, "Have you ever used needle drugs?" I wouldn't want to answer the question (again, even though the answer is "no").  It's about knowing who is asking the question, why they're asking it and who will have access to that information.  I think most people who have never used a needle drug would happily answer the question and I'm sure my reluctance to answer would be looked at with suspicion, but I feel like that about any personal question: just being happy about the answer doesn't mean that I will want to answer the question.

----------------------------------
Merging two responses
----------------------------------

*Puck Chaser*,


Thank you for both of your replies.  My apologies for applying to them piecemeal but I only saw one initially.

I have no intention of being dishonest.  I take the idea of working for the CAF seriously.  Past drug use is a legitimate concern and it _should_ be.  I know that drug use is unacceptable in the military.  I know myself that I would not use drugs while employed by the CAF.  

What you told me has already set my mind at ease.  I don't think it should be too surprising that I was thrown off by how these questions might be asked.  It's just the kind of thing that I want to know that nobody can have access to except those who need to know.

I mentioned (or implied) that I would prefer to answer these questions in a face to face conversation.  I think it is much more difficult to answer questions like this in a face to face discussion.

It's more about the being asked to fill out a form like that and possibly not knowing who gets access to the information and worrying that the information might be seen by someone who doesn't need to know.

I knew that it would not only be MOs who I would discuss this with.  It's really about knowing who needs what information ahead of time.  I didn't mean to imply that I would only speak with this kind of thing to an MO, but I'd want to be told who needs to know what.

*Eye in the Sky*,


> How about you either (1) apply to the CAF and accept the way we recruit or (2) don't apply.



I know my feelings are not entirely rational, but they're feelings so that's how they work (i.e. they aren't rational), so I asked.  I don't see any harm in asking questions. I think it is better that I ask questions. 

I could also express my discomfort and ask the recruiter to tell me who receives this information.  Maybe it would say on the sheet, but it's the not knowing that causes me to worry.   My concerns about confidentiality are legitimate.


----------



## PuckChaser

If you're going to ask, don't center it around drugs. Ask the recruiting cell about their privacy policy in general they'll likely explain this:

This is something you wouldn't know as a civilian, but most of these recruiting documents become Protected A or B. That means no one can just open the file and have a read, there's a need to know required in the performance of military duties.


----------



## OrganishChemiker

Thank you, I am satisfied with those answers.


----------



## OrganishChemiker

I expect the CAF to have a conservative attitude towards drugs.  I believe that abstinence from psychoactive drugs is the best policy in the military and civilian life.  It is self-evident to me that I perform much better when I abstain from any intoxicating substance (this would include alcohol but not necessarily caffeine).  

My job is not to try to educate a recruiter about drugs and I would only say something like what follows if I were unable to avoid the topic.

Suppose a recruiter asked something like, "Don't you know that LSD stays in your spinal column forever and damages chromosomes?"  

I would have to give an honest answer, which would be something like, "LSD use does have risks but the idea that LSD stays in the body or spinal column forever is a myth.  The evidence suggesting LSD damages chromosomes does not stand up to scrutiny." 

What kind of scientist would I be if I changed my answers just because I think someone won't like them?  
If I am directly asked for my opinion on something like this then I have to answer honestly.

I could easily add that the most relevant risks of LSD use are for people with a family history of mental illness, especially psychotic illnesses like bipolar disorder with psychotic features and schizophrenia, because it could precipitate a psychotic episode.  Also, there is a danger of getting hurt by doing something stupid, either because of being so intoxicated that one decides driving a car is a good idea, for example, or they think their friend's balcony is only a few feet off the ground when in fact it is 10 stories up.  I dislike anti-drug myths because they confuse people and can lead people to distrust the authorities.  Also, people will continue to use drugs and they should be informed of real dangers, not imaginary dangers.

I guess the best I can do is go in and give honest, thoughtful answers and hopefully they will see that I do not advocate drug use; that I think abstinence from psychoactive drugs is generally the best policy for everyone; and that my use is in the past and I am fine with abstaining from psychoactive drugs.

I suspect specific details like in my example won't come up, but I am concerned that I'll have to give answers that someone in the recruiting process will think are nonsense and the facts aren't going to matter. I know the only real way to find out is to go in and just talk with the recruiter when it comes up. 

I am fairly confident that I can explain myself but I know that the CAF probably wouldn't like some of my answers.  I understand the concern about allowing in applicants who admit to violating the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, because it would cause them to wonder how they can know I won't break the law again.  I hope that they make their decision based on who I am now, rather than whether I checked the 'wrong' box on the form of which drugs I have tried.

EDIT - I am always happy to provide references and cite sources for my claims.  I always do my best to meet my burden of proof.


----------



## Loachman

If I only knew who your recruiter was, I'd pay them good money to ask that question.


----------



## Jed

Maschinengewehr42 said:
			
		

> I expect the CAF to have a conservative attitude towards drugs.  I believe that abstinence from psychoactive drugs is the best policy in the military and civilian life.  It is self-evident to me that I perform much better when I abstain from any intoxicating substance (this would include alcohol but not necessarily caffeine).
> 
> My job is not to try to educate a recruiter about drugs and I would only say something like what follows if I were unable to avoid the topic.
> 
> Suppose a recruiter asked something like, "Don't you know that LSD stays in your spinal column forever and damages chromosomes?"
> 
> I would have to give an honest answer, which would be something like, "LSD use does have risks but the idea that LSD stays in the body or spinal column forever is a myth.  The evidence suggesting LSD damages chromosomes does not stand up to scrutiny."
> 
> What kind of scientist would I be if I changed my answers just because I think someone won't like them?
> ....



Answer: You would be a climatologist.   8) [


----------



## GAP

:rofl:


----------



## PuckChaser

Jed said:
			
		

> Answer: You would be a climatologist.   8) [


----------



## OrganishChemiker

Loachman said:
			
		

> If I only knew who your recruiter was, I'd pay them good money to ask that question.



Well, at the very least it would give me a good story.  Some of these myths are so strongly believed that they seem self-evident.  I think his jaw would just drop open.

More than likely it won't come up.  Hopefully it is so far in the past that it won't really matter.  I have not used many drugs prohibited by the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act (CDSA) and most of that was 14 years ago or longer.

Jed: I'm not a climatologist.  I think when it comes to climate the difficulty in making accurate predictions is that the Earth is not a simple system.  Climate can reach a dynamic equilibrium and then become chaotic.  It's hard to predict and models have to be constantly refined.

I like to argue, not in the sense of screaming back and forth at another person, but having a rational argument about something which we disagree on.  I'm a bit iconoclastic maybe.  It is unfortunate that funding sources can cause conflicts of interest and bias in science.  Good scientists should always be trying to set up experiments that would prove their hypotheses wrong.  Look at the pharmaceutical industry and how they don't have to disclose all of their data.  A pharmaceutical firm could do 100 clinical trials on a drug they are developing and find that only 2 of those trials gave the results they want to see.  They then only publish those 2 trials.  I think that is dishonest: it is lying by omission.

Then, of course, some pharmaceutical firms do dishonestly market their products, such Pfizer's marketing of Neurontin (gabapentin) for unapproved (i.e. "off-label") uses.  Or look at Purdue Pharma's dishonest marketing of Oxycontin, the time-release version of oxycodone.  They claimed that their product would be less addictive than immediate release opioid drugs simply because it would not hit the user all at once.  I don't know how MDs could have believed such a thing.  Pharmaceutical chemists have been trying to separate the euphoric properties of opioids from their analgesic properties since the elucidation of morphine's structure, well over a century ago, and nobody has been successful.  Any drug that acts as an agonist at the mu opioid receptor will cause analgesia and euphoria.   Suddenly Purdue Pharma comes along and claims their powerful narcotic product might be less addictive just because it is a time release formulation.  I just don't see how MDs could have believed that.  Indiscriminate prescribing of Oxycontin has been a big part in causing the heroin epidemic that the USA (and Canada) are facing.  Purdue Pharma paid a $600 million fine.  I'm sure that's peanuts compared to the profit they made from Oxycontin which came on the market in 1996.

My apologies if this is too off-topic.  I'm not trying to derail the thread.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Man, how you handle the interview and facetime with your recruiter is up to you.  I read your posts and Sheldon Cooper's image pops up in my head.  You goal in your recruiting it not to educate the recruiting staff, it is to get selected and sworn in.  Right?  

This is not complicated.  You will be asked about prior drug use.  Be honest in your answer, but not 'educating' about if LSD stays in your spinal cord or what it tasted like in your personal urine sample.  Just answer the questions asked, honestly.  You will likely be asked if you understand there is a zero tolerance policy for drug use in the CAF and asked if you agree to not use if you are part of the CAF.

Recruiters are busy people with more than your file to deal with.  I suggest making things are easy as possible and not coming off like...Sheldon Cooper.

 :2c:


----------



## DAA

Maschinengewehr42 said:
			
		

> I have been looking through this thread and cannot see the answer to my question and I also tried to the search function, so I hope this isn't redundant.
> I'm applying for direct entry officer.  I have an upcoming aptitude and personality test.  I've seen a few people say that after the aptitude tests, questionnaires about prior drug use are handed out.  Is this still done?
> I have no problem discussing prior drug use in detail with a  CAF doctor.  I understand that is part of the process and I am fine with it.  I am uncomfortable with the idea of being given a form with a whole bunch of questions about what I've used and when and then just handing that form off to someone (who, a recruiter?).  Can anyone offer any insight into what reaction I might get if I say that I can't answer the questions on that form right then?  Or do they even hand out those forms after the aptitude tests any more?



Yes, this process is still done.  Upon completion of your CFAT/TSD you will be required to complete the NPD Form (Non-Prescribed Drug Use) just like every other applicant.  The form is a "screening tool" and not a means for open discussion on the topic.  Your answers will be reviewed by a Recruiter and the form will be filed away.  You won't be discussing your answers to the questionnaire unless you are scheduled for an interview with an MCC (Officer) at a later date or if the need arises and it won't be an indepth interrogation.

Good luck!


----------



## OrganishChemiker

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Man, how you handle the interview and facetime with your recruiter is up to you.  I read your posts and Sheldon Cooper's image pops up in my head.  You goal in your recruiting it not to educate the recruiting staff, it is to get selected and sworn in.  Right?



That's what I said (that my goal isn't to educate anyone or go in and start arguments) and I know I worried about it too much.  I came up with a scenario that is so unlikely to happen.

As for Sheldon, I cannot stand that show.  I've only ever come across two scientists who reminded me of people on that show.  Actually, the reminded me more of the three nerdy roommates Homer Simpson had when he went back to college.

Alright, alright, thanks for everyone's help.  It's fine.  I get it.  No worries.  We'll see what happens.


----------



## kungfupanda

I have noticed a common theme on this thread...I have searched both with in army.ca and Google searched for my answer.  

I have completed up to my interview and am awaiting my reliability check to clear to get merit listed. 

Even with the no drugs policy do you guys find there is still a lot of illegal drug use in the cf? 

I'm asking cause I am tired of getting stuck working with addicts that slipped through the cracks. Just wondering if it is better on the military side? Or a big subculture..

Thanks.


----------



## ModlrMike

I don't think that "a lot" is an accurate measure, more like some. According to this article from 2014, urine testing revealed about 5.5% positive for at least one illicit drug. There were almost 4200 samples tested, with 279 positive results, so I think a valid sample size. That being said, there appeared to be a concentration in a single geographic region, which may have skewed the results. 

The 2008 CF Health and Lifestyle Survey put the rate at less than 10 percent, based on anonymous disclosure, which matched the US rate. I don't have access to a more current version.

No zero tolerance programme ever achieves zero. Rest assured that we don't have legions of addicts at work that you have to watch out for. In addition, take comfort that those who use are quite regularly found out and dealt with. 

Notwithstanding the above, I think alcohol is the most widely used substance in the CF. In any regard, it is everyone's responsibility to look out for each other and help folks who may be going down the wrong road.


----------



## kungfupanda

Thank you for the response! That makes sense, I am glad that it is proactively dealt with. From my own experience on the civilian side unless they are doing it right in front of supervision it never gets dealt with until someone else get injured or causes costly equipment damage.

 I applied for armoured crewman and am scared of getting stuck in a 2 ton hot box instead of a 2 ton fart box. That would make the job a bit less enjoyable..


----------



## PuckChaser

If people are smoking dope at work close to weapons and ammunition, you will need to take that up with your chain of command, it's unacceptable.


----------



## eitan67

August 20th I stopped using marijuana, after smoking for almost a year regularly and going to start my Policing Foundation course (in order to apply to MP) in September 6th and will finish it on November. Always wondering if I quit too late fearing that they will not accept me on the first interview telling me to come back next year or whatever.
Any answers are appreciated!


----------



## PuckChaser

Is it you, or your "buddy"?



			
				eitan67 said:
			
		

> A buddy of mine just stopped to smoke regularly marijuana after a year or two because he wants to start hes career in the military.
> Now is like in the RCMP where you have to be clean for two years then apply or different in the military where they judge for themselves if you are a good fit?



You quit for 6 days, so I'll forgive your shortened attention span that prevented you from reading the 46+ pages here on past drug use and how long you need to be clean for before applying.


----------



## eitan67

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Is it you, or your "buddy"?
> 
> You quit for 6 days, so I'll forgive your shortened attention span that prevented you from reading the 46+ pages here on past drug use and how long you need to be clean for before applying.



Ha, yeah its me and my buddy.


----------



## Loachman

Seriously, read through the thread. There's no need to add another page or more of the same thing. This goes for any other question(s) that you may have. We've got most things covered fairly well.


----------



## Cooldude87

Hi gents,fl for the past 6 months I've been experienmenting with al-lad. The drug is legal and produces LSD like effects when taken dose is over 100ug. I would take about 10ug every other day. I never felt high or loaded, the rocks never glowed but it did smooth out the cracks and just generally made my day much smoother overall.  I was hardly depressed but the best description i have is like an antidepressant. Should I disclose this and how would I mark it on the drug sheet? I'd hate be labeled a serial drug abuser when the substance is legal and the intoxication level is similar to drinking 1/10 of a shot of vodka.

Other than that and the once a month weed use I've been clean and haven't touched any drugs since high school 6 years ago or so.


----------



## George Wallace

Cooldude87 said:
			
		

> Hi gents,fl for the past 6 months I've been experienmenting with al-lad. The drug is legal and produces LSD like effects when taken dose is over 100ug. I would take about 10ug every other day. I never felt high or loaded, the rocks never glowed but it did smooth out the cracks and just generally made my day much smoother overall.  Should I disclose this and how would I mark it on the drug sheet? I'd hate be labeled a serial drug abuser when the substance is legal and the intoxication level is similar to drinking 1/10 of a shot of vodka.



A drug is usually considered "LEGAL" when it is prescribed by a physician.  Just because a drug may be "LEGAL", if you are taking it without a prescription or otherwise abusing the method of administering it, it may stray into the "ILLEGAL" zone.  In some/most/all cases, this can also be said for non-prescription drugs sold over the counter, should you not use them as intended.  As you are "EXPERIMENTING" with it; it seems that you are illegally abusing the administration of a legal drug.  Best bet:  Be upfront and honest and disclose what you are doing.  They will determine how to handle it.


----------



## ModlrMike

IMHO, AL-LAD would probably be classed as a prohibited drug under Schedule VI of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. In particular, Lysergic Acid (Note 1 - includes synthetic and natural forms).

Just the same, not illegal =/= legal.

Come clean and put it in the illicit drugs portion of the questionnaire.

CDSA Schedules


----------



## Cooldude87

That's disheartening to hear. I know how government  bureaucracy works. I've taken this drug 100 times the dosage or application won't matteer. I'm probably blacklisted for life. I'll try my luck with the reserves I imagine the standards are lower.


----------



## Teager

Cooldude87 said:
			
		

> That's disheartening to hear. I know how government  bureaucracy works. I've taken this drug 100 times the dosage or application won't matteer. I'm probably blacklisted for life. I'll try my luck with the reserves I imagine the standards are lower.



Same standards apply.


----------



## ModlrMike

Cooldude87 said:
			
		

> That's disheartening to hear. I know how government  bureaucracy works. I've taken this drug 100 times the dosage or application won't matteer. I'm probably blacklisted for life. I'll try my luck with the reserves I imagine the standards are lower.



Nope, same standards. You can still apply to join the Regular Force, just be honest about your drugs history.

Oh, and stop using drugs!


----------



## mapledonutmouth

I'm confused as to when your prior drug use plays a role in the recruiting process.

Today I did my CFAT and and the end the MCC came and explained to use how the pre-enrolment substance screening works. For the CFAT, we were told that we would receive a e-mail on how the test went - but we were also told that our prior drug use could give us an e-mail saying that we've been terminated from the process. However, most of the replies here are that it goes with your interview (even the more recent replies).

So I'm confused as to when your prior drug use will be brought into question. I marked on my paper that during highschool, between Oct '15 and May '16 I smoked weed 13 times. I'm 17 now and it's going to be 6 months clean the first day of November.


----------



## mapledonutmouth

So I had my CFAT test yesterday, and after doing the Personality test we filled out the pre-enrollment substance use questionnaire. After we completed that and the MCC looked it over (making sure we filled out everything correct, signed, etc.), we had the post-test powerpoint explaining the process from now on. He explained that there are 4 possible outcomes. Either we passed or failed the aptitude test for our chosen occupations, or that our drug use would disqualify us from the Forces.

However, many posts in the Merged Drug Use thread in the recruiting section, have said that this mainly comes into play during your interview. So I'm confused if I would be getting an e-mail in the next few days saying I've been disqualified or that I would just have to explain to the MCC in the interview about my drug use. For those wondering, I used to occasionally smoke pot in high school when I was 16. I wrote down that between Oct '15 and May '16, I smoked a total of 13 times. It's going to be 7 months clean on Nov. 1st.

EDIT - Forgot to mention we would receive our results via e-mail.


----------



## medicineman

I've seen people disqualified on the spot due to the drug use questionnaire - CFAT done, questionnaire filled out, I'd have up to "X" spots for medicals booked, and that would usually decrease by 1/3 or so just from the Drugs Form.  You'll either get an email saying come back some other time when you've been off the dope for longer or come in for a medical and interview.

MM


----------



## Seize

for such a high security level job i don't understand why they don't do any drug testing on people during the recruitment medicals, or random drug testing. Even when I had worked in corporate office buildings some of them did drug tests on.

I'm talking about the reserves here.


----------



## SupersonicMax

Because it's illegal?  Anonymous testing does happen but individual testing requires reasonable doubt and a bunch of hoops to jump through.

http://www.rbs.ca/newsroom-publications-Employee-Drug-Alcohol-Testing-Canada.html


----------



## mariomike

Seize said:
			
		

> for such a high security level job i don't understand why they don't do any drug testing on people during the recruitment medicals, or random drug testing.



Drug use/drug testing in the CF (merged) 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/16153.650
27 pages.


----------



## Jarnhamar

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Because it's illegal?  Anonymous testing does happen but individual testing requires reasonable doubt and a bunch of hoops to jump through.
> 
> http://www.rbs.ca/newsroom-publications-Employee-Drug-Alcohol-Testing-Canada.html



It's also illegal to water ski after sunset or paint a wooden ladder in Alberta. Not all laws are relevant in 2016.  Given the job we do in the military mandatory, non-blind drug tests shouldn't be some kind of human rights violation.  (Not suggesting you think the contrary Max)


----------



## SupersonicMax

I would absolutely be for ramdom drug testing in CAF, a bit like the US does.  However, the CAF cannot break the law and start testing because it makes sense...


----------



## George Wallace

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> .........  However, the CAF cannot break the law and start testing because it makes sense...



The CAF has been found exempt from certain Canadian Laws and Regulations under Federal Legislations.  Take UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICE as one such example.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5019-3.page

A good starting point for reading:


----------



## Seize

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> Because it's illegal?  Anonymous testing does happen but individual testing requires reasonable doubt and a bunch of hoops to jump through.
> 
> http://www.rbs.ca/newsroom-publications-Employee-Drug-Alcohol-Testing-Canada.html



ok so if blind random testing is illegal. why can't they do drug testing on all of us when we are enrolling ? ? weed out all the potheads etc


----------



## PMedMoe

Seize said:
			
		

> ok so if blind random testing is illegal. why can't they do drug testing on all of us when we are enrolling ? ? weed out all the potheads etc



Quite possibly due to the cost involved.  I don't imagine there's many institutions that do drug testing during the hiring process.

So, Seize, did you finally get in the CF or is this just sour grapes?


----------



## mariomike

Seize said:
			
		

> why can't they do drug testing on all of us when we are enrolling ? ?



Drug use/drug testing in the CF (merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/16153.650
27 pages.

See also,

Pre-employment drug test Canada.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=drug+test+hiring&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=oDE8WIKzIsaC8QfQ-YyIAg&gws_rd=ssl#cr=countryCA&tbs=ctr:countryCA&q=pre+employment+drug+test


----------



## Eye In The Sky

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Quite possibly due to the cost involved.  I don't imagine there's many institutions that do drug testing during the hiring process.
> 
> So, Seize, did you finally get in the CF or is this just sour grapes?



additionally,  applicants aren't yet members of the CAF, so things like the DAOD above wouldn't apply to them yet.


----------



## PMedMoe

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> additionally,  applicants aren't yet members of the CAF, so things like the DAOD above wouldn't apply to them yet.



True.  :nod:


----------



## Seize

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Quite possibly due to the cost involved.  I don't imagine there's many institutions that do drug testing during the hiring process.
> 
> So, Seize, did you finally get in the CF or is this just sour grapes?



I'm in the CF now. and i've worked at jobs where drug testing was mandatory


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Seize said:
			
		

> I'm in the CF now. and i've worked at jobs where drug testing was mandatory



Then read the DAOD i linked earlier in the thread.  Blind testing is legal;  my Wing did it this past fall IAW CAF policy detailed in the DAOD.


----------



## PMedMoe

Seize said:
			
		

> I'm in the CF now. and i've worked at jobs where drug testing was mandatory



Prior to hiring or after? Makes a big difference....


----------



## Seize

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Prior to hiring or after? Makes a big difference....



It was prior


----------



## unleashex

Hi. A couple weeks back is when I started to fill out forms to enter the CAF reserves and I got as far as getting an appointment
for the aptitude and physical test at the last week of january. Point is I want to make is that I recently stopped smoking, cold turkeying 
both weed and ciggarettes prior to becoming an applicant. Reading pages after pages makes me think maybe I should call my recruiter
to cancel my application because i have not met the requirements and it makes me reflect on what I've done baddly because it tells me
I have not been dedicated 6 months sober, so I can't deem myself worthy to join the army. Could I postpone my application for another 6months?
Or if I cancel my application to come back 6 months after will I be reflected poorly on my file? If its possible to know if I'd be able to continue where
I left off through the procedure? Or maybe its better to keep on going through the procedure until I've been told to wait for another 6 months?


----------



## unleashex

unleashex said:
			
		

> Hi. A couple weeks back is when I started to fill out forms to enter the CAF reserves and I got as far as getting an appointment
> for the aptitude and physical test at the last week of january. Point is I want to make is that I recently stopped smoking, cold turkeying
> both weed and ciggarettes prior to becoming an applicant. Reading pages after pages makes me think maybe I should call my recruiter
> to cancel my application because i have not met the requirements and it makes me reflect on what I've done baddly because it tells me
> I have not been dedicated 6 months sober, so I can't deem myself worthy to join the army. Could I postpone my application for another 6months?
> Or if I cancel my application to come back 6 months after will I be reflected poorly on my file? If its possible to know if I'd be able to continue where
> I left off through the procedure? Or maybe its better to keep on going through the procedure until I've been told to wait for another 6 months?


My apologies for adding another post but i think i had just answered my own questions. Thank you, cheers.


----------



## Seize

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Then read the DAOD i linked earlier in the thread.  Blind testing is legal;  my Wing did it this past fall IAW CAF policy detailed in the DAOD.



srry i didnt mean blind testing. i meant to say why cant they at least do random testing on ppl, or test ppl who they think may be on drugs


----------



## SupersonicMax

George Wallace said:
			
		

> The CAF has been found exempt from certain Canadian Laws and Regulations under Federal Legislations.  Take UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICE as one such example.



Some, not all.  As it stands, random drug testing in the CAF is not allowed by law.


----------



## Eye In The Sky

Seize said:
			
		

> srry i didnt mean blind testing. i meant to say why cant they at least do random testing on ppl, or test ppl who they think may be on drugs



Have a read thru this DAOD I posted earlier.   http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5019-3.page#dd

The Canadian Forces Drug Control Program (CFDCP)

3.2 QR&O Chapter 20, Canadian Forces Drug Control Program, sets out the essential elements of the CFDCP and provides the legal authority for testing for drug use by CAF members.

5. Deterrence and Detection

General

5.1 The chain of command and individual CAF members are responsible for the deterrence and detection of prohibited drug use and other involvement with drugs by CAF members.

Range of Actions

5.3 The range of actions employed by the CAF to deter and detect prohibited drug use and other involvement with drugs, as described in detail in the Education map and other blocks, includes:
a.education;
b.CFDCP implementation;
c.individual reporting;
d.enforcement;
e.investigation;
f.notification of DMCA;
g.review of duties;
h.drug testing; and
i.other appropriate administrative or disciplinary action, or both.

Drug Testing

5.13 To monitor and detect drug use, QR&O Chapter 20 authorizes mandatory drug testing for specific purposes in defined circumstances.

5.14 DMCA shall be consulted for any clarification of drug testing under QR&O Chapter 20.

5.15 A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 sets out detailed testing procedures and standards for drug testing. Testing procedures and standards are modelled on the Mandatory Guidelines for Federal Workplace Drug Testing Programs, published by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration of the Department of Health and Human Services of the United States of America.

CO Authority to Order Testing

5.16 A CO is authorized under QR&O Chapter 20 to order any of the following drug testing:
a.QR&O article 20.10, Accident and Incident Related Testing;
b.QR&O article 20.11, Testing for Cause; and
c.QR&O article 20.12, Control Testing.

Testing for Cause

5.23 QR&O article 20.11 sets out the conditions under which a CO may order a CAF member to undergo drug testing when there are reasonable grounds to believe that the CAF member has used a prohibited drug.

5.24 The information used by the CO as the basis to decide if reasonable grounds exist to order a test for cause may come from a variety of sources. 

Deterrent Testing

5.30 QR&O article 20.08 sets out the conditions under which deterrent testing may be ordered to detect CAF members using drugs contrary to QR&O article 20.04.

5.31 See A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 for guidance on deterrent testing.

High Risk Safety Sensitive Testing

5.32 QR&O article 20.09 sets out the conditions for the testing of CAF members in any occupation or position designated by the CDS where, in the CDS's opinion, a high risk to the safety of individuals would be created if a CAF member in the occupation or position were under the influence of a drug while on duty.

5.33 Designating an occupation or position requires a balancing of the CAF's interest in safety with the CAF member's privacy interest and right to security of person. If the risk to safety in an occupation or position is high should there be prohibited drug use, the more likely that the occupation or position will be designated as safety sensitive.

5.34 When determining if an occupation or position should be designated, the CDS assesses all relevant considerations leading to a high risk to the safety of individuals (see paragraph 9 of the CDS letter dated 30 July 2007, Expansion: Safety Sensitive Drug Testing, for a list of considerations).

5.35 The CDS expects that all CAF members in designated safety sensitive occupation or position shall be tested at least once every year.

5.36 See the DMCA web site for the current list of designated occupations and positions and the list of officers who may order safety sensitive drug testing.

5.37 See A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 for guidance on the ordering of drug testing of CAF members in designated occupations or positions.

Blind Testing

5.38 QR&O article 20.13 sets out the conditions for the ordering of a CAF member to provide a sample of urine on an anonymous basis. Such testing may be used to determine:
a.the prevalence of prohibited drug use in the CAF; and
b.the requirement for possible changes in programs or policies.

5.39 See A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 for guidance on blind testing.

5.25 See A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 for guidance on testing for cause.

Control Testing

5.26 QR&O article 20.12 sets out the conditions under which a CO may order a CAF member to undergo drug testing for control and the frequency of such testing.

Link to the QR & O:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-20.page


----------



## micro461

Medical and interview coming this week. Very happy. Though I am in a sketchy situation where I* denied drug use* during application process. Not because I _lied_, but simply because I've consumed a *small amount* of "x drug" in the past and _forgot about it._

Also do you guys think this could delay my recruitment? I don't know if the paperwork would have to be reviewed again because of this.

Any advice on _how I should deal with this_? Should I wait until the medical to talk about the issue? It's *this Friday.*

Thanks

-micro


----------



## RedcapCrusader

micro461 said:
			
		

> Medical and interview coming this week. Very happy. Though I am in a sketchy situation where I* denied drug use* during application process. Not because I _lied_, but simply because I've consumed a *small amount* of "x drug" in the past and _forgot about it._
> 
> Any advice on _how I should deal with this_? Should I wait until the medical to talk about the issue? It's *this Friday.*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -micro



Just declare it, be honest.

They'd rather that than find out you withheld that information.


----------



## mariomike

micro461 said:
			
		

> I've consumed a *small amount* of "x drug" in the past and _forgot about it._





			
				micro461 said:
			
		

> Any advice on _how I should deal with this_?



Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12779.0
47 pages.

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## micro461

Thank you for your helpful replies


----------



## Thecamman

Hello everyone

I did my CFAT and passed and when it came to my drug use application, I told them everything regarding my Marijuana and alcohol use. What I did NOT tell them was my use regarding some other substance. I feel pretty bad about this (I lied to people that need to trust me) and I also don't want to get in trouble. My application was closed and set to resume in October (year long clean period). Should I tell them then or now? This use was 5+ years ago so it seems well passed any time that would prompt another (or extend the current) clean period.


----------



## JesseWZ

So... during your very first opportunity to prove to the Canadian Forces you are a person of honour and integrity, you chose to lie (a lie of omission is still a lie). 

Ask yourself the following questions...

Why should we trust you with a weapon?
 Why should we trust you to follow orders? 
Why should we accept you into our ranks? 

The going wasn't even tough, and already you start with lying. When IF you are accepted, you will face much more difficult trials in your career then a simple drug questionnaire...
You had the opportunity to start with a clean slate, and now, no matter how you choose to proceed, you are a liar. 

And if it were a substance other than alcohol or marihuana *(ie a "hard drug") *, good luck. I'm reading between the lines, but since you easily admit to other illegal drug use (marihuana), and don't wish to nail down the "other substance," I'm going to assume its pretty frowned upon. Between that and your willingness to lie to cover it up, I'd say we are better off without you. 

But by all means, continue your application...  I strongly encourage you to pony up an ounce of courage and tell the recruiters you lied, and what substances you *actually* consumed.


----------



## Thecamman

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> And if it were a substance other than alcohol or marihuana *(ie a "hard drug") *, good luck. I'm reading between the lines, but since you easily admit to other illegal drug use (marihuana), and don't wish to nail down the "other substance," I'm going to assume its pretty frowned upon. Between that and your willingness to lie to cover it up, I'd say we are better off without you.
> 
> But by all means, continue your application...  I strongly encourage you to pony up an ounce of courage and tell the recruiters you lied, and what substances you *actually* consumed.



The other drugs were LSA (a really weak form of LSD), Salvia, and Mushrooms.

I'm not sure if this is considered "hard". I guess was concerned about coming off as some chemical tweaking guy. I do plan to reveal this information. Thank you for your response.


----------



## MedCorps

Thecamman said:
			
		

> The other drugs were LSA (a really weak form of LSD), Salvia, and Mushrooms.
> 
> I'm not sure if this is considered "hard". I guess was concerned about coming off as some chemical tweaking guy. I do plan to reveal this information. Thank you for your response.



I think it is important to remember that the staff at the CFRC are experts at what they do.  They get a sound amount of training in drugs and society and then gain experience every time they conduct an applicant interview. They know the difference between someone who has experimented with drugs and is honest and up front about reasons for use and time since last use and the person who is the "chemical tweaking guy". They also after working in the CFRC for sometime have a pretty good BS detector. 

One of my good friends worked the CFRC in Ottawa and if I ever suspected my son was on drugs and was being dishonest with me I would bring her over to the house for dinner for some cross the dinner table casual conversation (read: targeted interrogation). 

MC


----------



## Thecamman

MedCorps said:
			
		

> I think it is important to remember that the staff at the CFRC are experts at what they do.  They get a sound amount of training in drugs and society and then gain experience every time they conduct an applicant interview. They know the difference between someone who has experimented with drugs and is honest and up front about reasons for use and time since last use and the person who is the "chemical tweaking guy". They also after working in the CFRC for sometime have a pretty good BS detector.
> 
> One of my good friends worked the CFRC in Ottawa and if I ever suspected my son was on drugs and was being dishonest with me I would bring her over to the house for dinner for some cross the dinner table casual conversation (read: targeted interrogation).
> 
> MC



Thank you for the insight. It appears I was afraid of nothing. I don't know what my fate will be when I tell the recruiter, but hopefully there will be mercy. If not, well then it is what it is I suppose.


----------



## Thecamman

Just an update for anyone curious (or for those that are maybe in a similar situation). I did go back and confessed that I neglected to enter some information due to being concerned about how I would be viewed. The recruiter brought in my form and I just put in what I didn't when I first filled it out. He thanked me for coming back and being honest and I was on my way. My application was not affected since the substances I was concerned about was used a long time ago. 

Though the moral of this story is just to not do this at all and do it right the first time.


----------



## MedCorps

Good for you on taking the hard road.  Being in the military is all about not always taking the easy route. Things like honesty, integrity and strength of character go along way in this profession. 

MC


----------



## mapledonutmouth

Hi guys,

So I am wondering if prior substance use could disqualify you from certain trades that have high(er) security clearances, like Communicator Research Operator. I've been doing some googling but I couldn't find anything about drug use. I assume that if it works anything like that of the US DoD, then yes.


----------



## runormal

Just be honest and be prepared to explain your past.


----------



## MedCorps

canadianbacon22 said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> 
> So I am wondering if prior substance use could disqualify you from certain trades that have high(er) security clearances, like Communicator Research Operator. I've been doing some googling but I couldn't find anything about drug use. I assume that if it works anything like that of the US DoD, then yes.



I would not use the US DoD drug policies as an indicator of how the CAF does business in this policy area.  Apples and oranges. Just be honest as suggested. 

MC



**User name in quotation changed for Persec - Loachman.


----------



## mapledonutmouth

MedCorps said:
			
		

> I would not use the US DoD drug policies as an indicator of how the CAF does business in this policy area.  Apples and oranges. Just be honest as suggested.
> 
> MC



I already declared my substance use. I have Comm. Rsch. as my 2nd choice trade and I was actually considering moving it up. I didn't hear anything about my qualification for that trade so I thought I could've been auto-disqualified.


----------



## Jarnhamar

May I respectfully recommend not using your name (I assume) as a username while on message forums, especially if you're discussing sensitive subjects.

Things may not work out for you in the CAF and many employers search potential employees names. Past drug use could be a deciding factor in whether to hire you or not.

Having a small online footprint could also be something important in a trade like Comms research.


----------



## Hank V.

Hey, new to the forums here. I previously applied for a reserve unit in my city, I did my Fitness Test which I already know I will have to re-take as it is coming on a year since I took it, additionally I performed the CFAT and personality/aptitude test, however I was differed until may due to previous marijuana use. I am already gearing up to re-applying, and I will contact a recruiter for finer details, but before I do that I have a couple questions I was hoping you all might be able to help with.

Will I be likely be majorly treated or considered differently due to having a previous deferral?

What components will I need to re-perform? I am under the impression that the CFAT is a one time test and I will not need to perform it again.

Any advice for how to speed up the application process? 

Thanks!


----------



## mariomike

Hank V. said:
			
		

> I am under the impression that the CFAT is a one time test and I will not need to perform it again.



Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) FAQ  
http://army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0
37 pages.

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


----------



## Hank V.

Hey Friends,

I asked this in a thread I made and I was referred to this one, In the past I applied and was honest about marijuana usage on my NPD sheet, and I was deferred until this upcoming may for my application to my local reserves. I have been clean since the date I stated on the NPD sheet anyway so actual drug use is not a concern of mine, however I am wondering if it's likely that my application will be looked at less favourably because of the previous deferral. 

Any advice on how I should go about re-applying? 

Do you think my application will be looked at differently?

Also sorry for formatting my posts like emails, not used to forums.


----------



## George Wallace

Advice?

There are 47 pages here, in this topic alone, of questions (many of which you may NOT have even asked yet) and answers (to many questions you may not of thought to ask yet) giving advice to people.  Try reading them from the start, and you will find all kinds of good advice.


----------



## Lumber

Hank V. said:
			
		

> Hey Friends,
> 
> I asked this in a thread I made and I was referred to this one, In the past I applied and was honest about marijuana usage on my NPD sheet, and I was deferred until this upcoming may for my application to my local reserves. I have been clean since the date I stated on the NPD sheet anyway so actual drug use is not a concern of mine, however I am wondering if it's likely that my application will be looked at less favourably because of the previous deferral.
> 
> Any advice on how I should go about re-applying?
> 
> Do you think my application will be looked at differently?
> 
> Also sorry for formatting my posts like emails, not used to forums.



You won't be "re-applying", per se; they will be re-opening your previous file. They already have the dirt on you, but you've met our requirements for being clean. So just be honest, and you should be fine.

During the interview, they will ask you about your drug use, why you did it, and why you stopped. I don't know for sure, because I've never been in recruiting, but I imagine that that would have an impact on the overall score of your interview. Nonetheless, as long as your seem genuinely contrite during your interview, I don't think your past history will have a significant impact.


----------



## Hank V.

Lumber said:
			
		

> You won't be "re-applying", per se; they will be re-opening your previous file. They already have the dirt on you, but you've met our requirements for being clean. So just be honest, and you should be fine.
> 
> During the interview, they will ask you about your drug use, why you did it, and why you stopped. I don't know for sure, because I've never been in recruiting, but I imagine that that would have an impact on the overall score of your interview. Nonetheless, as long as your seem genuinely contrite during your interview, I don't think your past history will have a significant impact.



Okay awesome, thanks!


----------



## Connor_96

So I passed my aptitude test and qualified for all 3 of my trades 2 days ago-my trades are 1.Crewman 2.Combat Engineer 3.Infantry 

I think I might of screwed myself, because on the Drug use form they gave me I admitted to using marijuana 5 months ago and the previous 2 years, and Magic mushrooms once almost 3 years ago. 

Am i screwed? I need a solid answer please.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Connor_96 said:
			
		

> So I passed my aptitude test and qualified for all 3 of my trades 2 days ago-my trades are 1.Crewman 2.Combat Engineer 3.Infantry
> 
> I think I might of screwed myself, because on the Drug use form they gave me I admitted to using marijuana 5 months ago and the previous 2 years, and Magic mushrooms once almost 3 years ago.
> 
> Am i screwed? I need a solid answer please.



Was it the first declaration form you signed?


----------



## Connor_96

It was the form they give you directly after the CFAT with the huge list of drugs.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Connor_96 said:
			
		

> It was the form they give you directly after the CFAT with the huge list of drugs.



I'm not up to speed on the latest Recruiting Group policies so take this for what it's worth, couple of questions for you:

1.  Before taking your CFAT, did you previously sign a form saying you would abstain from all drug use?
2.  How long have you been conducting the Recruiting Process?

If this is the first form you signed, you may be ok; however, if you previously signed a form saying you would abstain from all drug use and then reported that you did drugs after signing that form, you're screwed.

Bottom Line:  If you want to be in the military, don't do drugs.  Drug use and DUIs/Alcohol problems are one of the quickest ways to get yourself punted from the military.


----------



## Connor_96

This form was the first piece of paperwork that had anything to do with drugs, I wanted to be honest. 

My timeline right now so far. I applied about 3 weeks ago, and took my aptitude test on Wednesday, May 3rd and passed. I was missing my official high school transcripts. So I am just waiting for those to arrive in the mail, which should take 2-4 weeks. When the transcripts arrive, I take them to the recruiting office and then they will send in my file for further processing .


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Connor_96 said:
			
		

> This form was the first piece of paperwork that had anything to do with drugs, I wanted to be honest.
> 
> My timeline right now so far. I applied about 3 weeks ago, and took my aptitude test on Wednesday, May 3rd and passed. I was missing my official high school transcripts. So I am just waiting for those to arrive in the mail, which should take 2-4 weeks. When the transcripts arrive, I take them to the recruiting office and then they will send in my file for further processing .



You should be fine, from this point forward though, NO DRUGS.


----------



## Connor_96

I haven't smoked pot in a solid 5 months. I have no criminal record what so ever. I wasn't "addicted" it was more a casual weekend high school party type deal. I am 20 years old by the way. 

You think I will be okay?





			
				Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> You should be fine, from this point forward though, NO DRUGS.


----------



## Humphrey Bogart

Connor_96 said:
			
		

> I haven't smoked pot in a solid 5 months. I have no criminal record what so ever. I wasn't "addicted" it was more a casual weekend high school party type deal. I am 20 years old by the way.
> 
> You think I will be okay?



You'll be fine, don't think you aren't the first one that's walked through the Recruiting door that's had the puff of a joint when they were younger.  Now, if you came in and said "I did Cocaine last week" we would be having a different conversation.


----------



## Connor_96

There are a lot of scary forums on here though, I've been digging pretty deep into this topic on this page. And a lot of guys are saying 6 months pot free or they will delay you're file...which would be a rather large pain in the a**. Also some guys are saying 2 years for magic mushrooms, other guys are saying 3. I really want to believe that the interviewer will regard your past drug use "case by case" which would make more sense. I'm damn sure the interviewer could easily and Cleary see that I am not a pothead at heart.





			
				Humphrey Bogart said:
			
		

> You'll be fine, don't think you aren't the first one that's walked through the Recruiting door that's had the puff of a joint when they were younger.  Now, if you came in and said "I did Cocaine last week" we would be having a different conversation.


----------



## Lumber

Connor_96 said:
			
		

> There are a lot of scary forums on here though, I've been digging pretty deep into this topic on this page. And a lot of guys are saying 6 months pot free or they will delay you're file...which would be a rather large pain in the a**. Also some guys are saying 2 years for magic mushrooms, other guys are saying 3. I really want to believe that the interviewer will regard your past drug use "case by case" which would make more sense. I'm damn sure the interviewer could easily and Cleary see that I am not a pothead at heart.



Like Humphrey, I'm not up to speed on current policy, but at one time it was that you had to be 6 months clean before they could continue processing your file. So, if that's still the case, no big deal. Even if they do close your file, you'll just have to come back... in 1 month. So no big delay there. Even if they do close your file for a month, don't sweat it. Like Humphrey alluded to: try and find a 20 year old Canadian who hasn't at least _tried_ the funky flower.


----------



## Connor_96

Lumber said:
			
		

> Like Humphrey, I'm not up to speed on current policy, but at one time it was that you had to be 6 months clean before they could continue processing your file. So, if that's still the case, no big deal. Even if they do close your file, you'll just have to come back... in 1 month. So no big delay there. Even if they do close your file for a month, don't sweat it. Like Humphrey alluded to: try and find a 20 year old Canadian who hasn't at least _tried_ the funky flower.



Keep in mind that I did get a medical done by my family doctor with a full drug screening urinalysis for peace of mind, and everything checked out negative.  

Thank you for the reassurance everybody, it is greatly appreciated. If anything else comes to mind feel free to post it. I love the input.


----------



## RedcapCrusader

Connor_96 said:
			
		

> Keep in mind that I did get a medical done by my family doctor with a full drug screening urinalysis for peace of mind, and everything checked out negative.
> 
> Thank you for the reassurance everybody, it is greatly appreciated. If anything else comes to mind feel free to post it. I love the input.



Doesn't really matter what you had done previously. The CAF have their standards and requirements and if they feel you need to wait another 6 months, they will tell you to do so.

The CAF doesn't owe you anything. You have the right to apply, but serving, is a privilege.


----------



## Connor_96

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Doesn't really matter what you had done previously. The CAF have their standards and requirements and if they feel you need to wait another 6 months, they will tell you to do so.
> 
> The CAF doesn't owe you anything. You have the right to apply, but serving, is a privilege.



I am fully aware that the CAF does not owe me anything, and that it is a privilege to serve. All in all, what I would really like to know is if the interviewer will make the decision of me being fit to serve, or having to wait more time; based on my performance during the interview. 

Again my 3 trades applying for are:

1-Crewman
2-Combat Engineer 
3-Infantry


----------



## Loachman

Connor_96 said:
			
		

> I would really like to know is if the interviewer will make the decision of me being fit to serve, or having to wait more time; based on my performance during the interview.



None of us here are your Military Career Counsellor. None of us have access to your file.

You will just have to be patient like all of _us_ were before Al Gore invented the internet.

Go out for a run.

Have lunch.

Have a beer.

Relax.

It's Sunday.


----------



## Connor_96

Loachman said:
			
		

> None of us here are your Military Career Counsellor. None of us have access to your file.
> 
> You will just have to be patient like all of _us_ were before Al Gore invented the internet.
> 
> Yaahhhh,  you are right.
> 
> Go out for a run.
> 
> Have lunch.
> 
> Have a beer.
> 
> Relax.
> 
> It's Sunday.


----------



## PMedMoe

Loachman said:
			
		

> It's Sunday.



It's Saturday where I am... 

Oh wait, every day is Saturday to me!   ;D


----------



## BCstangWA

I just had a question about the past use of Marijuana, I recently did my CFAT and my career counselor said I did really well. After they made us fill out that drug questionaire,  basically I said I did a few drugs in highschool 1 time as an experiment he said that's fine as no problem as long as it's an experiment, then on the weed and alcohol part both sections < 30 times in 6 years. Basically my question is, some guys on the forum are saying if you did pot less than 6 months ago they hold your file, in my case I said I did it January last, my apptittude test was in mid April, and I got a letter saying Im getting scheduled for an Interview and medical on may1st. But the career counselor didn't say anything about holding my file for pot use he just said there is a 0 tolerance for it so don't do it anymore, I said I did it becuase I and insomnia but I stopped in January. I know some guys are saying they had to wait 6 months in total since the last time they lit up, by my career counselor did not say anything about waiting or closing my file for now. Also I am not 100% if it was December or January I think it might have been December. So I will be saying December on my medical. But does anyone have any answers to this stuff? Thanks


----------



## Loachman

BCstangWA said:
			
		

> But does anyone have any answers to this stuff?



Yes.

You do.

The career counsellor asks you questions about your past drug use. You give your answers to those questions.

To the best of your ability.

Truthfully.

Then you wait and see what happens.

Stop overthinking this.

Thousands of others who have used drugs in their pasts have made it past the recruiting centre.

There are forty-nine pages in this thread. It is extremely unlikely that, in this veritable Encyclopaedia of drug-related matters, this part of the process has not been covered, already, multiple times.



			
				BCstangWA said:
			
		

> I got a letter saying Im getting scheduled for an Interview and medical on may1st.



If that is the case, then, today being 7 May, you've missed it.


----------



## BCstangWA

ok lol thx


----------



## Loachman

Aside from the date thing, I am serious.

Throughout the recruiting phase and your first courses, you will be given direction at the appropriate time. All that you need to do is understand that direction, do not over-complicate it, and follow it and, when the direction has been followed to its completion, until such time as further direction is issued, relax but be alert and attentive.


----------



## BCstangWA

OK cool thanks for the advice godbless, I recently got this email also "Greetings from Canadian Forces Recruiting Group. We are pleased to inform you that you have been approved for further processing for one or more of your preferred occupations. Your application has been referred to your local Recruiting Detachment for scheduling. Further processing may include a medical assessment and an interview with a Military Career Counsellor.
Your Recruiting Detachment will contact you within the next five business days with an appointment."If you have not heard from them within 10 business days, please dial 1-800-856-8488 using a landline phone. If after following these instructions you have any questions, please contact CFRG Customer Service by email at STG-CFRG-CustomerSvc@forces.gc.ca.
Thank you for your interest in joining the Canadian Armed Forces. To stay up-to-date on CAF news and opportunities, we invite you to follow us on social media at: www.facebook.com/ForcesJobs.ForcesEmplois.ca.

Sincerely,

Intake Management / Canadian Forces Recruiting Group
Canadian Armed Forces"

Basically I will call in if no answer within 10 days like they said thats my next step so far.
Also for those wondering, I did my CFAT On april 14, I got my letter on april 28th and it was monday so I got it the next monday like May1st. I am extremely happy, and they said I did really good on the test, my other buddy got in, and hes only in 11th grade and has average grades he said. Also he didnt get his letter till a month and a half later, I got mine in 14 days, so I am taking it as a good sign.

THANKS GUYS


----------



## BCstangWA

ohh also no they said they will call me for a scheduling date next week or so. Thanks


----------



## Wellington23

Im also in the procress of waiting for an appointment email regarding medical assessment and interview dates.

On the site, it says the medical assessment will review medical records and history. Does that mean just the information/paperwork/physical you provide them during the application process, or do they actually go into your personal health database and can see all if any surgeries, trips to doctors, prescriptions and blood work done and their results? If they do the latter, that seems like a lot of work to do for everyone.


----------



## Loachman

Welcome to Army.ca, Wellington23

This is the Drugs thread. There is an Enrollment Medical subforum at https://army.ca/forums/index.php/board,72.0.html.


----------



## 7thghoul

Just for posterity. I wrote my CFAT this morning and the file manager said I did fine but that due to previous drug use I would be getting a _10 month_ hold on my file and to call to re-open May 1st 2018. 

As disappointed as I am I want this and so should you, but just know if you've done things in your past it can and will cause a hold on your application.

I used marijuana since high school and beyond (quit in May 2017 when I decided the army was the way I wanted to go) and tried Magic Mushrooms twice (over 4 years ago). Seems long to me but oh well.


----------



## Lumber

7thghoul said:
			
		

> I used marijuana since high school and beyond (quit in May 2017 when I decided the army was the way I wanted to go) and tried Magic Mushrooms twice (over 4 years ago). *Seems long to me but oh well.
> *




It _is_ long. They didn't hold you for your magic mushroom use from 4 years ago, they put you on hold for your pot use from 2 months ago. 12 month clean waiting after last admitted pot use, and 2 months (since May) + 10 month hold = 12 months.


----------



## PuckChaser

Consider this your first life lesson in "your choices have consequences".


----------



## 7thghoul

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Consider this your first life lesson in "your choices have consequences".



I am don't worry pops! I promise I'll keep off the grass.  ^-^ I'm not sure what tone you think I was trying to strike but just so we're all crystal clear I want this more than anything so yeah, 10 months sucks, but not joining because of a stupid reason like continuing to smoke pot is way worse. Besides now I have 10 more months to run my ass off, work out, and generally prepare myself to become a better person weather I get in or not. 

Just saying, I know I fucked up and now I have some decent time to turn my life around, I fully expected a hold for this but everyone I talked to had said 3-6 months so I was a bit shocked but again, I accept it. There's no need to be condescending about it though Puck.


----------



## gryphonv

7thghoul said:
			
		

> I am don't worry pops! I promise I'll keep off the grass.  ^-^ I'm not sure what tone you think I was trying to strike but just so we're all crystal clear I want this more than anything so yeah, 10 months sucks, but not joining because of a stupid reason like continuing to smoke pot is way worse. Besides now I have 10 more months to run my *** off, work out, and generally prepare myself to become a better person weather I get in or not.
> 
> Just saying, I know I ****ed up and now I have some decent time to turn my life around, I fully expected a hold for this but everyone I talked to had said 3-6 months so I was a bit shocked but again, I accept it. There's no need to be condescending about it though Puck.



I think you are reading a bit too much into the comment. If you think that was condescending, you are going to be in for a shock in the future career with the forces. There can and will be much more 'condescending' things said to you. 

2 months isn't a reliable amount of time to prove someone has quit. I personally would argue 1 year isn't, but that is besides the point. The military has enough issues with drug use as it is, so consider yourself lucky that admitted drug use in your past don't exclude you in total. As I was lucky it didn't exclude me.

Also, just because you feel someone was condescending to you, Don't give you the excuse to be condescending back. I guarantee that when you serve that won't help you in the least. There are many times where there are one way conversations, and a few of those times you will feel they are treating you like a child. Even with that, the best, and most prudent thing is to keep your ears open and mouth shut during it. 

You'll understand this if you ever get to a point where you have to lead others. 

Anyways, I wish you the luck on your application, 10 months isn't the end of the world. I've waited much longer from my initial application for other reasons. Like you mentioned, use that time to work on things. 


One Piece of advice though, if you still want to be in near the end of the year, or early next year, Give the recruiting center a call. Just because they can't process your applicaiton at the time, it is good that you 'kick the tires' so to speak to show you are still interested.


----------



## 7thghoul

gryphonv said:
			
		

> I think you are reading a bit too much into the comment. If you think that was condescending, you are going to be in for a shock in the future career with the forces. There can and will be much more 'condescending' things said to you.
> 
> 2 months isn't a reliable amount of time to prove someone has quit. I personally would argue 1 year isn't, but that is besides the point. The military has enough issues with drug use as it is, so consider yourself lucky that admitted drug use in your past don't exclude you in total. As I was lucky it didn't exclude me.
> 
> Also, just because you feel someone was condescending to you, Don't give you the excuse to be condescending back. I guarantee that when you serve that won't help you in the least. There are many times where there are one way conversations, and a few of those times you will feel they are treating you like a child. Even with that, the best, and most prudent thing is to keep your ears open and mouth shut during it.
> 
> You'll understand this if you ever get to a point where you have to lead others.
> 
> Anyways, I wish you the luck on your application, 10 months isn't the end of the world. I've waited much longer from my initial application for other reasons. Like you mentioned, use that time to work on things.



damn. This is getting out of hand. Text never translates feeling exactly the way you want it to. I didn't mean to be condescending I meant to convey that I understand my choices have made my bed for me and I plan to work through it. But thank you for the advice you're right, I shouldn't become offended so easily. Again something I can work on towards next May. Sorry Puck! I appreciate everyone's feedback, especially from an experienced Sig to an aspiring one like myself. That being said, I meant to convey that this was definitely not my first life lesson in choices have consequences, ask my ex-wife  

I feel like trying to be funny on forums before coffee isn't working for me. The amount of respect and admiration I have for all of you guys is immeasurable. Cheers.


----------



## 7thghoul

gryphonv said:
			
		

> One Piece of advice though, if you still want to be in near the end of the year, or early next year, Give the recruiting center a call. Just because they can't process your application at the time, it is good that you 'kick the tires' so to speak to show you are still interested.



Oh? That seems like an awkward kind of phone call but I get your meaning. Just call them and tell them I'm still interested or ask about my hold? Thanks mate!


----------



## gryphonv

7thghoul said:
			
		

> Oh? That seems like an awkward kind of phone call but I get your meaning. Just call them and tell them I'm still interested or ask about my hold? Thanks mate!



Call and ask. Never know, sometimes policies change. At the very least, it puts you back on their radar. 

I went almost 14 months from my initial application to swearing in. After 8 months I was calling every 3-4 weeks. Lots of time with the same answer. 

I don't feel showing you are very interested will ever hurt you.


----------



## 7thghoul

You're not wrong. Thanks Gryphon!

Just one addendum however, once my 10 months is up how do I address the past use going forward? I assume it may come up in medical and/or interview? 

Basically the form on past use I found super weird. It doesn't really give a good look at specifics. Basically, I fell in with the wrong sort in high school and smoked it up without much care about it. After high school was much the same until 2013. In 2014 I cut down a lot and I quit completely in 2015 (just bored of it) only beginning to smoke again in social situations in 2016 & 17. So I put on the form 1-5 x week for 2008-13 and then 0-3 x week going forwards. I smoked at a birthday party in May so last use was recent unfortunately then I made the decision to quit completely again so I could join.

Long story short I only smoked in social situations as something to do, I can and have left it behind without issue in the past. I know it doesn't look or sound good, I have no justification for it. Vancouver has a huge marijuana culture and I suppose group think contributes to the fact that no one here really sees issues with it. I know the onus is on me I guess I'm just wondering how to show them I'm willing to own my past and ease worries about future use as I know it won't be a problem but they obviously will have reservations.


----------



## gryphonv

7thghoul said:
			
		

> You're not wrong. Thanks Gryphon!
> 
> Just one addendum however, once my 10 months is up how do I address the past use going forward? I assume it may come up in medical and/or interview?
> 
> Basically the form on past use I found super weird. It doesn't really give a good look at specifics. Basically, I fell in with the wrong sort in high school and smoked it up without much care about it. After high school was much the same until 2013. In 2014 I cut down a lot and I quit completely in 2015 (just bored of it) only beginning to smoke again in social situations in 2016 & 17. So I put on the form 1-5 x week for 2008-13 and then 0-3 x week going forwards. I smoked at a birthday party in May so last use was recent unfortunately then I made the decision to quit completely again so I could join.
> 
> Long story short I only smoked in social situations as something to do, I can and have left it behind without issue in the past. I know it doesn't look or sound good, I have no justification for it. Vancouver has a huge marijuana culture and I suppose group think contributes to the fact that no one here really sees issues with it. I know the onus is on me I guess I'm just wondering how to show them I'm willing to own my past and ease worries about future use as I know it won't be a problem but they obviously will have reservations.



Honesty is always the best policy. If you intentionally left something out and it became found about later, it could be much worse. 

As some point in your career you will have to get security clearance. Depending on the level required they might look over your past with a bit more interest. If something came up then that contradicted your statements, it would put your clearance in doubt, your career lost, or even worse. 

I think the current policy ( and I don't think it has changed much since I got in) is very realistic. The military and its recruiters know how socially accepted many drugs are. They know if they had a zero tolerance view with the 'lighter' drugs they would be hard pressed to hit recruitment goals, in fact almost impossible.

Really it don't matter your reasoning for using the drugs, only it matters that you proven to both yourself and them that you can stay away from it. 

Don't be surprised if you get a drug test before you are sworn in, just to prove you are honest. Also they can and will happen throughout your career. Usually a blanket one is done before a deployment. It's rare to have individual ones done unless they suspect something or the person has been caught before. 

In the end, if you are honest through out, there will be no surprises to them or you going through.


----------



## 7thghoul

Thanks Gryphon!

I'm good then as I haven't left anything out. I know I can stay clean no problem, just gotta wait now!

Thanks so much for all your help!


----------



## Scott

7thghoul said:
			
		

> You're not wrong. Thanks Gryphon!
> 
> Just one addendum however, once my 10 months is up how do I address the past use going forward? I assume it may come up in medical and/or interview?
> 
> Basically the form on past use I found super weird. It doesn't really give a good look at specifics. Basically, I fell in with the wrong sort in high school and smoked it up without much care about it. After high school was much the same until 2013. In 2014 I cut down a lot and I quit completely in 2015 (just bored of it) only beginning to smoke again in social situations in 2016 & 17. So I put on the form 1-5 x week for 2008-13 and then 0-3 x week going forwards. I smoked at a birthday party in May so last use was recent unfortunately then I made the decision to quit completely again so I could join.
> 
> Long story short I only smoked in social situations as something to do, I can and have left it behind without issue in the past. I know it doesn't look or sound good, I have no justification for it. Vancouver has a huge marijuana culture and I suppose group think contributes to the fact that no one here really sees issues with it. I know the onus is on me I guess I'm just wondering how to show them I'm willing to own my past and ease worries about future use as I know it won't be a problem but they obviously will have reservations.



You have a chance to talk more about something that someone else might not. 

You have a chance to demonstrate that, while you have made some mistakes, you seek to improve yourself. 

You have a chance to show that you make no excuses and do not try to provide logic to a behavior that is forbidden.


----------



## 7thghoul

Scott said:
			
		

> You have a chance to talk more about something that someone else might not.
> 
> You have a chance to demonstrate that, while you have made some mistakes, you seek to improve yourself.
> 
> You have a chance to show that you make no excuses and do not try to provide logic to a behavior that is forbidden.



And so my watch begins.


----------



## 7thghoul

Was reading through the earlier pages of this thread and came across a post saying nicotine and caffeine are on the past drug use form. I don't remember seeing them though? Does anyone know if they are there and if so should I call my CFRC and ask them to update my file for coffee drinking daily and red bulls sometimes + smoking cigarettes?


----------



## mariomike

7thghoul said:
			
		

> Was reading through the earlier pages of this thread and came across a post saying nicotine and caffeine are on the past drug use form.



There are 1225 posts in this discussion. For reference, can you tell us which one you are referring to?


----------



## 7thghoul

Lajeunesse said:
			
		

> Yes you have to sign a declaration stating which drugs you‘ve used (including caffine, nicotine..ect.) how many times you used/use and then you sign the bottom stating that which you have written is truthful to the best of your knowledge. Oh and after you sign this in the case you get caught using you can/could be charged federaly and you can ruin your chances of ever getting into the army again.
> Hope that helps some. Oh and make sure you tell the truth its really not worth the puishment, if your caught lying. I know they do the initale pee test at your medical but do they do another after you‘ve started Basic...just curious



This was the post I was referring to. 

I did however call a file manager this morning and he told me not to worry about it. Figured I'd ask in the interest of being transparent in that I didn't want to seem like I was omitting anything, which he said was fine and again to not worry as they really only look for non-prescribed and illegal narcotic use.


----------



## Mick_Fras

Hello everyone,
i'll start by thank you for taking the time for reading and hopefully replying. I have read several form posts on similar topics but none of real aplication because they were outdated. Some background first. I originally applied for ROTP in the beggining of my victory lap of High School (2016) and did not meet my CFAT requirments. I took the time off, worked, grew, and came back to write in January of 2018; where I sucessfully met all the standards I whished to achieve. My medical exam is coming at the end of Febuary and I am not worried about my fitness or any health hazards except for this one issue. When I orignally applied i filled out my substance questionaire form honestly; a single previous use of Marijuana. Wanting to be open and honest on my new questionaire I added some for the use of which I took on my year off. This number was a total guess and (14) as I was no where near a frequent user and I didnt want to be caught in a situation where it looked like i was lying to I highballed. Upon making the decision to re-apply in (around august-september) I stopped all together which honestly wasnt a real issue seeing as I wasn't a very frequent user anyway. A couple of weeks ago, in late January, I was at a party at my University and was slipped something I was unaware of based on my level of blood alcohol level. I later found out it was an edible and am horrified that this history and accident is going to stop my entrance into the CAF. If anyone has any advice, ideas, or even just a general comment on my stupidity here it would be much appreciated.
Thanks again.
Mick_Fras


----------



## EpicBeardedMan

Regardless of how you took drugs, you still took drugs. Disclose everything, if you don't and they find out...not good news.


----------



## Greeneie

Hello, hoping to get some information in regards to what my chance's are of getting past medical with what I dealt with in my past. In my teenage years I used lots of drugs and alcohol as a way to cope with troubles in life because I was raised in a hostile home with domestic abuse. At about 21 years old I was admitted to CAMH for what they initially diagnosed as Schizophrenia. I was prescribed Olanzapine(Anti-psychotic medication) which I was on for some years. Fast track to now and I am 32 years, medication free since 2013, married, have a 7 year old daughter and have been steadily employed for many years and a mortgage, car and all that fun stuff. I have been drug(street drugs) and alcohol free for about a decade now and have constantly been in contact with my family doctor. In her opinion, she believes that I had been misdiagnosed and what I was going through was just related to the many drugs I had used in my younger years. I am curious if the is grounds for an automatic failure when it comes to medical. I have been preparing myself physically, mentally and intellectually for the past year but have been hesitant to send my application based on the above reason. Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated as this is something I have been interested in as a child but never pursed in my younger years due to low self esteem at the time. Thanks in advance.


----------



## mariomike

Greeneie said:
			
		

> In my teenage years I used lots of drugs and alcohol as a way to cope with troubles in life because I was raised in a hostile home with domestic abuse. At about 21 years old I was admitted to CAMH for what they initially diagnosed as Schizophrenia. I was prescribed Olanzapine(Anti-psychotic medication) which I was on for some years.



You can search our discussions for the highlighted words.

For readers unfamiliar with Centre for Addiction and Mental Health ( CAMH )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Addiction_and_Mental_Health

As always, Recruiting ( Medical ) is your most trusted source of official up to date information.

"Unofficial site, not associated with DND or the Canadian Armed Forces."


----------



## da1root

mariomike said:
			
		

> As always, Recruiting ( Medical ) is your most trusted source of official up to date information.



I always love mariomike's quote. Take particular note of the "Medical" part of that quote.

Here is my standard Recruiter type response when faced with medical questions:

_"During the application process, our recruiting medical personnel will assess your unique medical situation. A complete medical examination is necessary when assessing medical fitness for the Forces. At this time, the Fe Forces will be able to determine if any existing medical conditions would preclude you from joining. This is also important when restrictions may limit the career choices being considered.

If you have specific medicla questions you should contact the recruiting detachment nearest you and ask to speak with a member of the medical staff directly."_


----------



## Littleone25

Hey

I applied once before quite a few years back, it wasn’t the right time for me. Anyways when I applied the first time it was closer to my high school/post high school years and I could remember the drugs i had tried recreationally. So years later I’m applying again, because it’s the right time, and I wanna give the best life to my daughter. I don’t do drugs anymore. Not that I did them full time back then. Anyways I reapplied and am comfirmed for a NPD (Applicant Pre-Enrollment Substance Use Questionnaire). What exactly is that testing? Also I can’t remember the exact dates or anything.. because I put it all behind me. But I don’t wanna seem like I’m lying when I go in to do the NPD. I was honest before during my first application years ago, so are they just able to go by that if I say I can’t remember? Thanks


----------



## da1root

Littleone25 said:
			
		

> Hey
> 
> I applied once before quite a few years back, it wasn’t the right time for me. Anyways when I applied the first time it was closer to my high school/post high school years and I could remember the drugs i had tried recreationally. So years later I’m applying again, because it’s the right time, and I wanna give the best life to my daughter. I don’t do drugs anymore. Not that I did them full time back then. Anyways I reapplied and am comfirmed for a NPD (Applicant Pre-Enrollment Substance Use Questionnaire). What exactly is that testing? Also I can’t remember the exact dates or anything.. because I put it all behind me. But I don’t wanna seem like I’m lying when I go in to do the NPD. I was honest before during my first application years ago, so are they just able to go by that if I say I can’t remember? Thanks



No they can't go off your first application; from the sounds of your post it was a LONG time ago which means the documents are in archive or possibly destroyed (the government only keeps things for so long).  Be honest to the best of your memory.  

If high school was 10 years ago and it was only for 1-2 years after high school then you can say with all honesty that the last time you touched anything was 8+ years ago.  Be honest to the best that you can be and it'll be fine for the interview/questionnaire.


----------



## robjvan

Apologies if this has been answered already, but does anyone have any information as to whether legalization will affect the whole "wait six months after smoking to apply" rule?   I understand THC metabolites are carried in fat cells for a long time - it can be months for a chronic smoker to completely eliminate all traces of THCA, but they certainly won't be feeling the effects, even just two days later.  

I would happily abstain from day one of enrollment, but having to twiddle thumbs for six months can certainly dampen the enthusiasm.


----------



## garb811

robjvan said:
			
		

> Apologies if this has been answered already, but does anyone have any information as to whether legalization will affect the whole "wait six months after smoking to apply" rule?   I understand THC metabolites are carried in fat cells for a long time - it can be months for a chronic smoker to completely eliminate all traces of THCA, but they certainly won't be feeling the effects, even just two days later.
> 
> I would happily abstain from day one of enrollment, but having to twiddle thumbs for six months can certainly dampen the enthusiasm.


That won't be determined until the CDS announces the new rules for CAF members.

If you would find abstaining for six months prior to enrollment, if that is what is required, would dampen your enthusiasm, then perhaps you need to rethink a few things.


----------



## da1root

The official stance of the CAF that recruiters have been informed to state is that it still not legal.
Until such time as it is made legal the CAF will not announce what it's policy will be.
As such the current NPD policy stands.


----------



## Canadian_beast

Question for the people that have gotten their offers for bmq. When does the drug test happen, asking for a friend. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mariomike

Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> When does the drug test happen, asking for a friend.



Drugs thread - previous use, testing, etc..[MERGED]
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12779.1150
50 pages.

Drug use/drug testing in the CF (merged) 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/16153.625
28 pages.


----------



## Marketfresh

Hello,

I wanted to make this post to thank everyone for the vast information I found in this thread and while I knew I would never find something relating specifically to my situation, I was able to find a solution and all the answers to my questions within the 50 pages of information each of you has provided. 

I'm currently in the recruitment process, I've written my CFAT and TSD. After completing my TSD (Trait Self Descriptive Test) I was put into a room to fill out my Substance Use Information Sheet. Now before I get started I want to share that I had applied in the past and was put on a 6 month probation due to my declared substance use. About 6 years ago I applied and got to where I am today, I completed the CFAT and the TSD (It was still in trial at the time I believe but was definitely there). I was then put into the same room with the Substance Use Information Sheet, I filled it out honestly, I had smoked pot during high school and on some summer trips. At this time my MCC (Military Career Counselor) was concerned with the use, it had only been about 7 months since I had stopped smoking pot. I was put on my probation period and told I would be contacted once it had ended, however in that time I was pushed to go to College, waiting for 6 months and working part time wasn't something my guardians were okay with. This was completely understandable to me as I was the one who chose to smoke pot, now I had to live with a minor consequence of that decision. I decided to finish school and earn a full diploma in that time. Fast-forward 6 years to present time, I want nothing more than to reapply, I love the idea of the Canadian Armed Forces and everything they represent, it feels like a calling to at least experience this. I again passed my CFAT and TSD and I was brought into a room and had the Substance Use Information Sheet placed in front of me, just like I did 6 years ago. I was afraid of the same 6 month probation, I didn't want to experience that same feeling of disappointment in myself for making stupid mistakes. While filling it out I put only a portion of my marijuana use, I had mislead this piece of paper, my MCC, and most importantly myself. I have never posted here before but I read posts almost daily and when I came across this thread the feeling of dread that I had done something so awful had started to set in. I read all 50 pages, looking for something to make myself feel better about my lie and I found that information. The ONLY way I was going to feel better was to go back and set the record straight. I was nervous, I didn't want to go and have anyone know I had been untruthful but the fact is I had been and I wanted, NEEDED, to fix this. The security guard at the door was friendly, "You've been here earlier! Just want to fix some paperwork?" that's exactly what I was there to do, I walked in and he went into the back offices and pulled my MCC out for me to talk to. A stern man but informative and helpful, "I've made an error on my Substance Use Information Sheet, if I'm going to start a career with the Forces I need to ensure it starts with complete honesty". I explained to him what I had done, he put a hand up and said "Don't worry, thank you for coming in, let me grab your paperwork and we'll get it all fixed up". Immediately I felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I was able to find the courage to live up to my mistake because of the information I found here and I wanted to thank you. You're all absolutely right, someone who isn't honest and is without integrity has no right to be in the Forces. 

Some of you will no doubt feel 'Once liar, always a liar' but I don't feel that way. I made a mistake and I want anyone else who might be reading this forum to know you have a choice, everyone makes mistakes and it's fixing what you did wrong that really matters. If you've been dishonest because you're afraid it is NOT a life sentence. Go back and explain what happened and why, you'll be happy knowing you've started your potential career with honesty and integrity.

tl;dr
I was dishonest about marijuana, I read all the information provided by the excellent and informative users on this forum and went back to fix my mistake. You should do the exact same thing if you're in this position.


----------



## robjvan

garb811 said:
			
		

> That won't be determined until the CDS announces the new rules for CAF members.
> 
> If you would find abstaining for six months prior to enrollment, if that is what is required, would dampen your enthusiasm, then perhaps you need to rethink a few things.


You're quite right, it's time to decide which is more important.  Thank you, sincerely.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


----------



## kratz

[quote author=robjvan]
You're quite right, it's time to decide which is more important.  Thank you, sincerely.
[/quote]

Something for everyone wanting to join the CAF. The $$$ worth of equipment, lives and material any CAF member may be responsible for is more important than reliance on illicit drugs.

Consider: Is getting caught worth surrendering a "defined pension", "medical and dental benefits" and other veterans benefits?


----------



## Canadian_beast

WB said:
			
		

> They do a urinalysis (spelling?). You get to piss on one of those chemical colour strips that you used in chemistry class.
> 
> The recruiter told me that 90% of the guys he tests have tried pot at one point or another. I‘ve been under the impression that they‘re more interested in weeding out (no pun intended) dishonest kids then they are with getting rid of the occasional toker. Be honest about your past and you shouldnt have much to worry about.
> 
> keep off the grass!!!



You said “occasional timer” what if you “toked” significant amount within the past year and or months from applying to the CF. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## robjvan

Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> You said “occasional timer” what if you “toked” significant amount within the past year and or months from applying to the CF.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Also a long-term heavy user here, and my impression is that you'd need to quit for at least 6 months to show a concerted effort but it may end in requiring another 6 months (or more) of waiting, based on hearsay.  Theoretically the smoothest option would be to quit for at least a yearish, then get the application going.

Again, this *may* change with the new decriminalization laws but any possibile changes will probably take time and might ultimately have no effect on recruitment decisions.  

It's not a right that we can serve in the forces, it's something we have to earn and prove ourselves for.  If they ask that we don't use particular substances for whatever reasons, that's just something we have to accept if we want in.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Canadian_beast

robjvan said:
			
		

> Also a long-term heavy user here, and my impression is that you'd need to quit for at least 6 months to show a concerted effort but it may end in requiring another 6 months (or more) of waiting, based on hearsay.  Theoretically the smoothest option would be to quit for at least a yearish, then get the application going.
> 
> Again, this *may* change with the new decriminalization laws but any possibile changes will probably take time and might ultimately have no effect on recruitment decisions.
> 
> It's not a right that we can serve in the forces, it's something we have to earn and prove ourselves for.  If they ask that we don't use particular substances for whatever reasons, that's just something we have to accept if we want in.
> 
> Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk



Shit eh my friend that’s asking has only quit for 2 months but has already put in his application and is going for further processing. He will most likely be denied I’m guessing. 


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## robjvan

Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> crap eh my friend that’s asking has only quit for 2 months but has already put in his application and is going for further processing. He will most likely be denied I’m guessing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmm, I suppose we'll find out!  Maybe things are different now, please keep us posted on the results.  I know there's probably anonymous lurkers in the forum wondering the same thing.

Fingers crossed, and good luck to your friend!  May I ask which trade they chose?

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## Canadian_beast

robjvan said:
			
		

> Hmm, I suppose we'll find out!  Maybe things are different now, please keep us posted on the results.  I know there's probably anonymous lurkers in the forum wondering the same thing.
> 
> Fingers crossed, and good luck to your friend!  May I ask which trade they chose?
> 
> Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk



Yes we will find out, I will keep y’all posted. But he choose infantry. Would that make it even harder? Lol 


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## EpicBeardedMan

Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> Yes we will find out, I will keep y’all posted. But he choose infantry. Would that make it even harder? Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Doesn't matter what trade it is...they won't be more or less sympathetic to your friend being a stoner depending on what trade he picks. Considering it won't be legal until October I wouldn't expect any leniency on this at all from the CFRC and most likely the file will be delayed for months.


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## da1root

Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> Yes we will find out



As I previously posted

<b>The official stance of the CAF that recruiters have been informed to state is that it still not legal.
Until such time as it is made legal the CAF will not announce what it's policy will be.
As such the current NPD policy stands.</b>

IAW Work Instruction 3.3.3.14 on Non-Prescribed Drugs, the current waiting period has not changed and is not changing prior to 1-Oct-18.  Although the Government of Canada has announced legal changes to the use of Marijuana to come in effect, the CAF cannot and will not action any changes to their policy until that date.

This post is not made on behalf of the CAF, it is being made by someone who is trained in policy analysis.


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## signingup_tomake_onepost

Hi All,

I am interested in joining the CF, have been for the better part of 5 years, and I think the near (0.5-2 years) future is the time for me to do it.

The Good:
I am a graduate of a 3 year Electrical Technology college program where I was class Rep, graduated with 3.5x/4.0 GPA. I have a full-time job in industrial automation where I travel all over NA comissioning automated equipment - including places like BMW, Tesla, Jeep, etc (i.e. HIGH standards) - which involves a TON of responsibility, accountability, teamwork, safe work, and awareness. I volunteer with Habitat for Humanity building homes, I have CPR/First Aid Lv. A, was in Air Cadets, earned a Black Belt when I was a teen, have amazing employment/personal references.

The bad:
I grew up in/went to HS in a city with nothing to do and a lot of socioeconomic problems. 

In highschool, I took LSD 3 times (about 10 years ago now), mushrooms about 5 times, MDMA a dozen or more times, smoked pot daily for several years, smoked cigarettes, binge drank, didn't apply myself in to my studies...pretty much an anti-model applicant.

The ugly:
After highschool I decided to go to college (1st major change in my life really), though I kept smoking pot through most of it. I took mushrooms 2 winters ago, and the winter before that. I've taken cocaine once or twice since I graduated highschool. The last time was only this August, and I know it was a bad choice.

The redeemer?:
In the past 6 months, I have stopped drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes (and since have actively, conciously engaged in removing all vices from my life), started doing yoga and implemented a number of wholesome changes into my life, and recently quit drugs 100% (I smoked pot most weekends until recently, when I realized I had a physical addiction).

If not for my drug-addled past, I think I would pass any assessments with flying colours. 

Is there any chance I would be accepted into the Canadian Forces with a history like mine, if I apply after 8 months to 1 year of being completely drug free and demonstrably different person than I had been?

Thanks.


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## GermanWolf

So, now that weed is legal, will this affect the recruiting process at all? Not that it would matter for me (haven't touched a joint in 3.5 years and don't plan on ever doing it again. What's done is done), but it would be interesting to see if the CAF will now distinguish between illegal use and legal use of recreational marijuana on the application process. 

For example, I could see them add a question like: "How many times have you smoked weed before the 17th of October 2018," and then compare it to how much the applicant consumes now. Does anyone have any actual know about this? I think it would be interesting to see if this will change anything at all for new applicants.


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## BeyondTheNow

signingup_tomake_onepost said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> I am interested in joining the CF, have been for the better part of 5 years, and I think the near (0.5-2 years) future is the time for me to do it.
> 
> The Good:
> I am a graduate of a 3 year Electrical Technology college program where I was class Rep, graduated with 3.5x/4.0 GPA. I have a full-time job in industrial automation where I travel all over NA comissioning automated equipment - including places like BMW, Tesla, Jeep, etc (i.e. HIGH standards) - which involves a TON of responsibility, accountability, teamwork, safe work, and awareness. I volunteer with Habitat for Humanity building homes, I have CPR/First Aid Lv. A, was in Air Cadets, earned a Black Belt when I was a teen, have amazing employment/personal references.
> 
> The bad:
> I grew up in/went to HS in a city with nothing to do and a lot of socioeconomic problems.
> 
> In highschool, I took LSD 3 times (about 10 years ago now), mushrooms about 5 times, MDMA a dozen or more times, smoked pot daily for several years, smoked cigarettes, binge drank, didn't apply myself in to my studies...pretty much an anti-model applicant.
> 
> The ugly:
> After highschool I decided to go to college (1st major change in my life really), though I kept smoking pot through most of it. I took mushrooms 2 winters ago, and the winter before that. I've taken cocaine once or twice since I graduated highschool. The last time was only this August, and I know it was a bad choice.
> 
> The redeemer?:
> In the past 6 months, I have stopped drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes (and since have actively, conciously engaged in removing all vices from my life), started doing yoga and implemented a number of wholesome changes into my life, and recently quit drugs 100% (I smoked pot most weekends until recently, when I realized I had a physical addiction).
> 
> If not for my drug-addled past, I think I would pass any assessments with flying colours.
> 
> Is there any chance I would be accepted into the Canadian Forces with a history like mine, if I apply after 8 months to 1 year of being completely drug free and demonstrably different person than I had been?
> 
> Thanks.



Unfortunately, no one here can definitively answer your question(s) one way of the other. Only those evaluating your recruiting process have the full scope and authority to come to a final decision as to your suitability for the CAF. My advice to you is to go through the process and fill out the substance use portion honestly. If you haven't used illegal substances in quite some time and no longer demonstrate any dependency/addictive (or otherwise negative) patterns, then that bodes well for you. As well, most of us go through tumultuous periods in our lives where poor judgement is used. Many have also experienced less-than-ideal circumstances while growing up. What you do with those experiences and what you learn from them is what counts. Start the process (if you haven't already) and see how it unfolds.

Additionally, I encourage you to take advantage of the resources and knowledge provided throughout this site. You're welcomed to post and share where appropriate. We just ask that users first try their best to find any answers they're seeking on their own before posting in order to avoid repeated questions with the same content.

Best of luck.


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## da1root

The information being disseminated at the moment is that prior to 17 October 2018 the use of cannabis was illegal.

Whether you're asked about consumption prior or after that date is up to the MCC; some might ask - some might not.  It's like asking about someone's drinking consumption.  I remember when I joined I was asked how often I smoke and consume alcohol; someone who joined at the same time through another CFRC wasn't asked...


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## da1root

signingup_tomake_onepost said:
			
		

> Thanks for the information and support.
> 
> I know i'm not the only one so hopefully without sounding snarky; I've searched through this thread and found a couple similar situations dating back several years, but consider these posts outdated.
> 
> For anyone else wondering the same, I've also contacted a couple different recruiters who have all said either it does not automatically disqualify me from the Canadian Forces (no specifics on Combat Arms), or that they cannot comment on medical requirements.



Just for your information - Recruiters cannot state whether you qualify or not when it comes to NPD (non prescription drugs) or medical issues.  That is outside their training and arcs of training. So stating that it doesn't disqualify you doesn't mean that you're good to go; it just means that they don't have the training to say yes or no.

Medical Issues:

During the application process, the recruiting medical personnel will asses your medical situation. A complete medical examination is necessary when assessing medical fitness for the Forces. At that time, the Forces will be able to determine if any existing medical conditions would preclude you from joining. This is also important when restrictions may limit the career choices being considered.

Drug Issues:

During the application process you will undergo a background/security check and an interview.  A complete vetting of your background is necessary when joining the military as it could affect the ability for your to receive a security clearance to do your job effectively.  Drug use can affect the possible outcome of a security clearance/background check, as such only the panel that reviews this information can render an answer to whether NPD usage will allow you to join the CAF or not.


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## Darke

I think this link might be helpful for some people on this thread. 

http://forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-9000/9004-1.page


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## Canadian_beast

I’ve been hearing the army is stopping drug testing which I highly doubt have y’all heard anything on this?


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## Canadian_beast

Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> I’ve been hearing the army is stopping drug testing which I highly doubt have y’all heard anything on this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


***stopped drug testing for marijuana*** to be specific 


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## JesseWZ

... Sigh ...

Who have you been hearing these rumours from? 

What drug testing are you speaking about? 

Are you speaking about blind testing, testing for cause, testing the quality of your dope? 

Hard to answer your question without more information.


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## Lumber

Yea, we hardly ever tested before, so what exactly are we stopping? There's still cause to be tested for drug use, even marijuana drug use.


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## Canadian_beast

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> ... Sigh ...
> 
> Who have you been hearing these rumours from?
> 
> What drug testing are you speaking about?
> 
> Are you speaking about blind testing, testing for cause, testing the quality of your dope?
> 
> Hard to answer your question without more information.



I understand I should’ve been more specific, I’ve heard from a couple of my friends (in the reserves) that “the military is stopping, piss tests for new recruits, because of marijuana being legal” I was assuming it would be for marijuana, and the test would determine how often you’ve used the substance. Just seems a little far fetch to me That they would just let pot smokers in. Hope this was better than my last reply. 


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## dangerboy

Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> Just seems a little far fetch to me That they would just let pot smokers in.



Why would they not let marijuana users in? It is a legal substance, just like alcohol or tobacco.


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## Canadian_beast

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Why would they not let marijuana users in? It is a legal substance, just like alcohol or tobacco.



Ya that makes sense, just seems kinda weird I guess sorry for the confusion 


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## Lumber

Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> Ya that makes sense, just seems kinda weird I guess sorry for the confusion
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Also, they never piss tested for drugs during enrolment screening. So, the person feeding you this information is way off.


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## BeyondTheNow

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Why would they not let marijuana users in? It is a legal substance, just like alcohol or tobacco.





			
				Canadian_beast said:
			
		

> Ya that makes sense, just seems kinda weird I guess sorry for the confusion
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



And just like they do for alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, legal or not, they'll also question you on your frequency of usage as a gauge to show signs of dependency.


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## Canadian_beast

Lumber said:
			
		

> Also, they never piss tested for drugs during enrolment screening. So, the person feeding you this information is way off.



Ya I just did my aptitude test today and haven’t heard anything about a piss test and all the research I’ve done hasn’t said anything about a piss test, just came here to clarify.


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