# Parachute Batallion?



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:53:23 EST*
Ok. I‘ve been thinking about this for a while, and I‘ve been trying to figure 
out what‘s wrong with this idea that would make me look like some kind of a 
near-idiot to the rest of you.
    So, finding nothing, I probe... : 
            Now, a while ago, we were discussing the Jump Companies within 
the 3 Reg. Force Infantry Regiments. From what I understood,correct me if 
I‘m wrong- there are a total of  3 existing paratroop companies within the 
mentioned regiments, all put together. What I‘m thinking is this:- - -  It 
takes 2 or more companies to form a Batallion, right? Well, why not stick the 
total of 3 companies together, forming a Parachute Batallion, thus giving us 
a CAR type deal againforgive the unintentional disrespect which may 
accompany my youthful ideas. No offense was intended, and that way, I 
woulndn‘t think, in my naivety, that it would cost THAT much money to form, 
and then we‘d have a Reg. Force Batallion for Airborne/Special Operations 
again. I‘m sure we‘d all like to see one!
    It seems perfectly logical to me, but I know I‘m no genius, so if it 
really was that good of an idea, it would have surely been implemented 
already.
    So, what‘s wrong with the idea?
        -Matt B.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Peter deVries" <rsm_kes_cc254@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:21:35 *
Firts off, in no way do I feel that the Airborne regiment should have been 
disbanded. The 4th of march in 1996 was one of ther darkest days in the 
hisotry of the forces. That said,
I think the reason that they don‘t have a regiment of paratroopers in Canada 
was the reason they got rid of the CAR in the first place, People wanted to 
split up the different regiments within the CAR. SO that they wouldn‘t cause 
trouble together. If you want to read a good book on the airborne and the 
forces in general, read "The Sharp End" by James Davis. Really good book.
Peter
>From: Juno847627709@aol.com
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>Subject: Parachute Batallion?
>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:53:23 EST
>
>Ok. I‘ve been thinking about this for a while, and I‘ve been trying to 
>figure
>out what‘s wrong with this idea that would make me look like some kind of a
>near-idiot to the rest of you.
>     So, finding nothing, I probe... : 
>             Now, a while ago, we were discussing the Jump Companies within
>the 3 Reg. Force Infantry Regiments. From what I understood,correct me if
>I‘m wrong- there are a total of  3 existing paratroop companies within the
>mentioned regiments, all put together. What I‘m thinking is this:- - -  It
>takes 2 or more companies to form a Batallion, right? Well, why not stick 
>the
>total of 3 companies together, forming a Parachute Batallion, thus giving 
>us
>a CAR type deal againforgive the unintentional disrespect which may
>accompany my youthful ideas. No offense was intended, and that way, I
>woulndn‘t think, in my naivety, that it would cost THAT much money to form,
>and then we‘d have a Reg. Force Batallion for Airborne/Special Operations
>again. I‘m sure we‘d all like to see one!
>     It seems perfectly logical to me, but I know I‘m no genius, so if it
>really was that good of an idea, it would have surely been implemented
>already.
>     So, what‘s wrong with the idea?
>         -Matt B.
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Bruce Williams" <Williabr@uregina.ca>* on *Mon, 25 Dec 2000 17:49:36 -0600*
In theory there is no reason that this could not be done. However, there are
a number of considerations:
1. What hat badge would the BN wear? Each company is froma different
Regiment RCR, R22ieR, understrength.
2. Where would the administrative and logistic support including aircraft
come from?
3. Where would they be employed? An understrength BN is not suited for
combat ops or peacekeeping.
4. Is the expense to maintain a combat jump capability justified. An
Airborne DIV is only capable of limited ops without reinforcement, a single
battalion does not have the resources. If you doubt that look at OPERATION
MARKET GARDEN or watch the movie A BRIDGE TOO FAR which portrays the op.
IIRC there have been no successful airborne assaults since WWII. Note I am
referring to large scale assaults and not Special Forces ops which involve
infiltrating small numbers using techniques like HALO and HAHO.
It seems to me that as a concept landing large numbers of troops by
parachute is an outdated concept. The Infantry cling to it much as some
Cavalry tried to remain mounted on horses rather than accepting the tank.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Peter deVries" <rsm_kes_cc254@hotmail.com>* on *Tue, 26 Dec 2000 01:10:55 *
What would you suggest as a deployment method for a rapid reaction force?
Peter
>From: "Bruce Williams" 
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: 
>Subject: Re: Parachute Batallion?
>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 17:49:36 -0600
>
>In theory there is no reason that this could not be done. However, there 
>are
>a number of considerations:
>
>1. What hat badge would the BN wear? Each company is froma different
>Regiment RCR, R22ieR, understrength.
>
>2. Where would the administrative and logistic support including aircraft
>come from?
>
>3. Where would they be employed? An understrength BN is not suited for
>combat ops or peacekeeping.
>
>4. Is the expense to maintain a combat jump capability justified. An
>Airborne DIV is only capable of limited ops without reinforcement, a single
>battalion does not have the resources. If you doubt that look at OPERATION
>MARKET GARDEN or watch the movie A BRIDGE TOO FAR which portrays the op.
>IIRC there have been no successful airborne assaults since WWII. Note I am
>referring to large scale assaults and not Special Forces ops which involve
>infiltrating small numbers using techniques like HALO and HAHO.
>
>It seems to me that as a concept landing large numbers of troops by
>parachute is an outdated concept. The Infantry cling to it much as some
>Cavalry tried to remain mounted on horses rather than accepting the tank.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>message body.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:53:53 EST*
i know what you‘re saying, guys, but I agree the CAR should‘ve NEVER been 
disbanded. i just thought this would be a good way to give us some pride 
again.
I don‘t know. maybe if I‘m a general someday I‘ll push it through.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Mon, 25 Dec 2000 22:21:44 EST*
I think I‘m shootin‘ pretty high, now.
All I was trying to do was make some sense of our situation now.
Look at the roles Canada has played in all the major wars since our Country‘s 
conception. We‘ve fought so gallantly in all of the wars, for our Country and 
Queen, and now it seems as though we wouldn‘t be able to do much at all. The 
one thing that makes me feel a little better about it, is knowing the state 
of the Forces before WWII.
>From what I understand, the forces were pretty much non existent. Would we be 
able to do that again?
If Canada had a Parachute Batallion, or if the CAR was still around, I‘d be 
very satisfied  here. But now, I think I‘m going to end up in Britain with 
the Paras. Nothing‘s for sure, but that‘s where I think I‘m going to head. 
I‘m a very, very proud Canadian, but it seems the Para‘s offer so much more, 
and in the end, it‘s all for the same Queen, and commonwealth, so.....
I‘d love to stay in Canada, but if that‘s going to stop me from enjoying my 
military career, I don‘t think I‘ll stick around.
Who knows.
I‘d love some more comments regarding my original comments about a Parachute 
Batallion, though!
Please, if you‘ve got something to say, really, I‘d love to hear it!
                    -Matt B.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Tue, 26 Dec 2000 00:11:39 -0500*
Peter, Juno...
What geopolitical need do you perceive for Canada to have a military rapid
reaction force?
How large should this force be?
How far does it have to be projected?
How long does it have to be sustained?
How much advance warning of the requirement for launching do you anticipate?
What mission and roles do you see it capable of executing?
What equipment and manpower do you see as essential to meeting these tasks?
Define the requirement.
Then a thorough estimate of the situation should help to develop the
potential deployment methods.
Throughout its existence, the Canadian Airborne Regiment was not used as an
airborne rapid reaction unit  for purposes of national power projection on a
global scale. The missions it was assigned to Cyprus, Somalia required
extensive reroling, retraining at individual and collective levels and
augmentation. Neither of these missions saw the personnel of the CAR
deployed or employed as airborne.
If you want to proclaim that we should have an armed rapid reaction
capability on battalion or larger scale - justify the need, and the costs in
terms of manpower, equipment, personnel and ongoing training.
Don‘t mourn the Airborne Regiment. While the loss of any unit from the Order
of Battle is a disheartening, the only people to blame for the Regiment‘s
disbanding were those members who managed to publicly embarrass the Army in
front of our nation and the world to the extent that our political masters
saw no other viable course of action.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter deVries 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: Parachute Batallion?
> What would you suggest as a deployment method for a rapid reaction force?
> Peter
>
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Tue, 26 Dec 2000 00:24:09 -0500*
Inter-regimental rivalry was not a significant factor among the regiment‘s
problems. The CAR had a degree of esprit de corps that generally transcended
diverse regimental or Corps origins.
And read davis‘ book with a grain of salt. It was written to sell books, not
necessarily to tell "the whole truth."
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter deVries 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Parachute Batallion?
> Firts off, in no way do I feel that the Airborne regiment should have been
> disbanded. The 4th of march in 1996 was one of ther darkest days in the
> hisotry of the forces. That said,
> I think the reason that they don‘t have a regiment of paratroopers in
Canada
> was the reason they got rid of the CAR in the first place, People wanted
to
> split up the different regiments within the CAR. SO that they wouldn‘t
cause
> trouble together. If you want to read a good book on the airborne and the
> forces in general, read "The Sharp End" by James Davis. Really good book.
> Peter
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remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Mon, 25 Dec 2000 23:35:06 -0500*
Remember, the parachute is proven the most inefficient method of putting an
armed body on an objective.  if you can think of a worse way, let me
know...
It is an extremely expensive unit...which may have had more weight than
political embarassment in the CAR‘s demise, but whose to tell?
You would need an enormous bunch of F Ech assets, in armour, arty and grunts
to fight through for the relief of your airborne assets...you also need a
bunch of aerial assets sitting around, tasked with support to airborne a
similarly tasked segment of Service Corps etc etc.
So if you think its sexy to jump ot of airplanes, fine.  Join your local sky
diving club.
Our Forces have higher fiscal prioritiesthan what was, at best, a WWII face
saving advertisement.
Sorry to all you jumpers there in cyber land...but a brief reality check.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Oleary" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: Parachute Batallion?
> Inter-regimental rivalry was not a significant factor among the regiment‘s
> problems. The CAR had a degree of esprit de corps that generally
transcended
> diverse regimental or Corps origins.
>
> And read davis‘ book with a grain of salt. It was written to sell books,
not
> necessarily to tell "the whole truth."
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter deVries 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 8:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Parachute Batallion?
>
>
> > Firts off, in no way do I feel that the Airborne regiment should have
been
> > disbanded. The 4th of march in 1996 was one of ther darkest days in the
> > hisotry of the forces. That said,
> > I think the reason that they don‘t have a regiment of paratroopers in
> Canada
> > was the reason they got rid of the CAR in the first place, People wanted
> to
> > split up the different regiments within the CAR. SO that they wouldn‘t
> cause
> > trouble together. If you want to read a good book on the airborne and
the
> > forces in general, read "The Sharp End" by James Davis. Really good
book.
> > Peter
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"John A. Poh" <johnpoh@mb.sympatico.ca>* on *Tue, 26 Dec 2000 01:46:07 -0600*
So well said!!
Gow wrote:
> Remember, the parachute is proven the most inefficient method of putting an
> armed body on an objective.  if you can think of a worse way, let me
> know...
>
> It is an extremely expensive unit...which may have had more weight than
> political embarassment in the CAR‘s demise, but whose to tell?
>
> You would need an enormous bunch of F Ech assets, in armour, arty and grunts
> to fight through for the relief of your airborne assets...you also need a
> bunch of aerial assets sitting around, tasked with support to airborne a
> similarly tasked segment of Service Corps etc etc.
>
> So if you think its sexy to jump ot of airplanes, fine.  Join your local sky
> diving club.
>
> Our Forces have higher fiscal prioritiesthan what was, at best, a WWII face
> saving advertisement.
>
> Sorry to all you jumpers there in cyber land...but a brief reality check.
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Oleary" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 12:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Parachute Batallion?
>
> > Inter-regimental rivalry was not a significant factor among the regiment‘s
> > problems. The CAR had a degree of esprit de corps that generally
> transcended
> > diverse regimental or Corps origins.
> >
> > And read davis‘ book with a grain of salt. It was written to sell books,
> not
> > necessarily to tell "the whole truth."
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Peter deVries 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 8:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: Parachute Batallion?
> >
> >
> > > Firts off, in no way do I feel that the Airborne regiment should have
> been
> > > disbanded. The 4th of march in 1996 was one of ther darkest days in the
> > > hisotry of the forces. That said,
> > > I think the reason that they don‘t have a regiment of paratroopers in
> > Canada
> > > was the reason they got rid of the CAR in the first place, People wanted
> > to
> > > split up the different regiments within the CAR. SO that they wouldn‘t
> > cause
> > > trouble together. If you want to read a good book on the airborne and
> the
> > > forces in general, read "The Sharp End" by James Davis. Really good
> book.
> > > Peter
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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