# Class B break in employment - PSHCP / Benefits & other ramifications



## justmyalias (30 Mar 2010)

I wonder how many other people face this or have faced this scenario.

Contract ends MR31.  New contract starts on the Tuesday following Easter week-end.

Can someone suggest how to have this adjusted so there's no break?

If there is no stipulation whereby this dating can be adjusted so the new 'B' starts (logically) the day after the old one expires, what impacts would this break in employment have-if any?

Both old and new contracts are 180+, if that makes a difference.

Would my PSHCP benefits be sent into disarray for dependants?  Would I effectively have to pay a prorated amount for the ~week of non-employment at the $93/month rate for Coverage?

Would anything else be impacted, PMQ dwelling rent?, or would it (by the Good Grace of God) SIMPLY boil down to a loss of a weeks pay?

*Is there another reason other than someone trying to save on the 4 days of statutories, so screwing the mbr out of the first 6 days of Aprils' employment?*


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## Tetragrammaton (30 Mar 2010)

CF MIL PERS INSTR 20/04, Para 4.1(b)

_Short breaks in service may negatively impact the member's benefits and entitlements. Therefore, the approving authority shall ensure that intentional short breaks in Cl "B" Reserve Service, such as over weekends or holidays, are not permitted except in the case of Reg F annuitants who opt to take a break(s) as set out in para 2.13 of this document._

No class B should end on a Friday or prior to any statutory holiday period.

Hope this helps.


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## George Wallace (30 Mar 2010)

> .......in the case of Reg F annuitants who opt to take a break(s) as set out in para 2.13 of this document.



As you seem to have that doc open, can you post para 2.13 as well?  (It does pertain to some of us.)


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## Tetragrammaton (30 Mar 2010)

Now in answer to your other questions;

1. The Public service health care plan (PSHCP) has a 60 day "grace" period following full-time employment where you can be reinstated into the plan without having to go through a 90 day waiting period. As long as you start a new class B (Cl-B) within 60 days and *ENSURE* that your Statement of Undertstanding is faxed to the PSHCP office you are alright. You can always choose to apply under the plan as a Class A reservist, but it is far more expensive to the member which is why most people only learn about it during extended Class B periods.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/hd-sd/psh-rss/doc/pshcpim-mirssfp-eng.pdf

2. Don't really know how your PMQ situation would be affected. I would assume that if you could prove that you are starting a new CL-B within days, there should not be any problem.


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## Tetragrammaton (30 Mar 2010)

As requested.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/20-04-eng.asp


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## justmyalias (30 Mar 2010)

You know...I'm filled with such a feeling of appreciation and deep respect for the wealth of information on this site.  For that I salute you (officer or not) all who've contributed.



			
				Tetragrammaton said:
			
		

> CF MIL PERS INSTR 20/04, Para 4.1(b)
> 
> _Short breaks in service may negatively impact the member's benefits and entitlements. Therefore, the approving authority shall ensure that intentional short breaks in Cl "B" Reserve Service, such as over weekends or holidays, are not permitted except in the case of Reg F annuitants who opt to take a break(s) as set out in para 2.13 of this document._
> 
> ...


WOW...I'm amazed that there ACTUALLY is written policy against doing this...so does this mean this break is a mistake and shouldn't be?  or that there is some other higher reason why it was so-and so is justified?

fyi, I'm not an annuitant., 

I'll take this to my Chain and hopefully they can crack the whip.

Grazie!


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## George Wallace (30 Mar 2010)

Tetragrammaton said:
			
		

> As requested.
> 
> http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/20-04-eng.asp



Thanks very much.  There are some important facts in that link that I think I will have to post and sticky here for all other annuitants to find.  There are some pretty serious ramifications to one's pension should a mistake be made in their Reserve employment.


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## PMedMoe (30 Mar 2010)

justmyalias said:
			
		

> You know...I'm filled with such a feeling of appreciation and deep respect for the wealth of information on this site.  For that I salute you (officer or not) all who've contributed.
> WOW...I'm amazed that there ACTUALLY is written policy against doing this...so does this mean this break is a mistake and shouldn't be?  or that there is some other higher reason why it was so-and so is justified?



And perhaps you're just ending one Cl B contract and starting another.  When I went to Germany for the base closure from Jan-Sep '93, I was on two contracts, although the second one merely "extended" the first one, (one ended one day, the other started the next) because I was on two contracts (and due to the nature of the contracts), I was not eligible for FSP, nor did my time overseas count for points for later FSP.  I kind of feel like I got ripped off twice.  But such is life.  I was happy to be working full time and for the opportunity to go to Germany.


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## Tetragrammaton (30 Mar 2010)

Personal experiences can, at times, be misleading. A lot of things happen in terms of administration based on interpretation of the ever-changing rules and regulations and these judgment calls are not necessarily correct. 

In regard to foreign service, not all time out of Canada necessarily counts, but I'm just starting to delve into the particulars. Might make for an interesting thread of its own.


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## CountDC (30 Mar 2010)

Would be interesting in seeing something on that. As far as I know any att-post/post out of country of at least 10 days counts towards some form of FSP unless you are there over 7 years.  Or are you referring to the two types of FSP not counting towards each other since 23 Jul 03?

To OP - Take the info provided to your supervisor and see what happens.

Depending on how much you want to push you could take the case all the ways to a redress.  The questions you have to decide is - how much is 5 days worth?  How likely is it that the unit would hold that against you in the future?  Are you likely to find the employment dry up at the end of your term?

Myself for 5 days I most likely wouldn't push it beyond the unit level.  Good luck with it, hope it works out for you.


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## PMedMoe (30 Mar 2010)

CountDC said:
			
		

> Would be interesting in seeing something on that. As far as I know any att-post/post out of country of at least 10 days counts towards some form of FSP unless you are there over 7 years.


At the time, I was told because it wasn't continuous service.  I have my CF 1007 Statement of Reserve Force Service with these dates (oops, looks like it was three separate contracts):

107 days Cl B Service 01 Apr 93 - 16 Jul 93
  46 days Cl B Service 17 Jul 03 - 31 Aug 93
 20 days Cl B Service 01 Sep 93 - 20 Sep 93



			
				CountDC said:
			
		

> Or are you referring to the two types of FSP not counting towards each other since 23 Jul 03?


Not sure what you're referring to there.

I apologize for the slight hijack of the thread, but it does (sort of) fall into the same category.  My three periods of Cl B as noted above, were all for the _same_ position.


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## CountDC (30 Mar 2010)

Will using the FSP calculator I have it shows 6 points for both Ops FSP and FSP.  FSP is based on monthly with the first and last month requiring 10 days to qualify for the points. Continuous service of your SOU has nothing to do with it unless they screwed you and did the whole thing as TD vice att-post.

Up to 23 Jul 03 points counted towards both Ops FSP and FSP regardless of whether you were on an operation such as Bosnia or on a foreign service such as Germany.  After 23 Jul 03 they no longer cross accumulate.  If you go on an Op then you are given Ops FSP points, foreign service will get FSP.    They are different in that FSP has 6 levels - level 1 is 0 to 24 pts, level 2 is 25 to 60 pts so it takes 2 years to increase in level.  Ops FSP has 6 basic levels but each of those have a sub level.  Level 1 goes A to D, 2 to 5 goes A to F and 6 only has A which is maxed.  Levels increase every 6 points.

The real fun ones are the Ships.  You have to look up the ship the member was on, find it in a listing message for the period the member was with the ship and it will tell you the points granted for that period if any.  Seems simple except often members are "loaned" between ships without the entry done in Peoplesoft so you have to search for documentation showing the member was actually with that ship at that time.  Had one that was loaned to another ship that loaned him to another ship that qualified for points.  Took an hour going through his pers file to find all the messages I needed.  Luckily in his case they were all there, too often they are not.


Seems I got carried away - all that to say unless they did it as TD you should be credited with 6 points if you go on Ops or Att-Post/Post OUTCAN.


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## PMedMoe (30 Mar 2010)

I think that was the problem.  It was all done as TD vs.  Att Posting.  Still feels like a rip-off but what the hey, I had a good time and got an SSM out of the deal.   ;D


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## justmyalias (30 Mar 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> And perhaps you're just ending one Cl B contract and starting another....


Well., I thought that was obvious.  What else would I be doing? :blotto:  

It's the same job., just a different 'contract'.

A solution has already been spearheaded by my good :nod: OPS O.


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## PMedMoe (30 Mar 2010)

justmyalias said:
			
		

> Well., I thought that was obvious.  What else would I be doing? :blotto:
> 
> It's the same job., just a different 'contract'.


You could have been starting a _different_ contract for a _different_ position.  So no, it wasn't _obvious_.   :


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## justmyalias (30 Mar 2010)

shame., ya have to roll your eyes?  Be nice now.  Everybody has been so polite and helpful .



			
				PMedMoe said:
			
		

> You could have been starting a _different_ contract for a _different_ position.  So no, it wasn't _obvious_.   :


Thankfully  ;D :nod:., as per the reference provided, it's clear that same or different, is irrelevant to the policy.

'not permitted', plain and simple.  Only exception is annuitant or not.


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## PMedMoe (30 Mar 2010)

justmyalias said:
			
		

> shame., ya have to roll your eyes?  Be nice now.  Everybody has been so polite and helpful .
> Thankfully  ;D :nod:., as per the reference provided, it's clear that same or different, is irrelevant to the policy.
> 
> 'not permitted', plain and simple.  Only exception is annuitant or not.


I only used it because you used the "blotto" smiley.  Just wanted to let you know that what is patently obvious to you, may not be to others without the proper explanation.

Glad to hear you go it all worked out.


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