# Pace Stick and Sword?



## wallysconce

Is it generally acceptable for a CWO to carry a pace stick and sword at the same time on parade?


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## WLSC

In a short answer, yes.  For the infantry, for the other arms, I dont know for sure.  But RSM traditionally wear the ''officer dress'' so they carry the sword.  It's not supposed to be a pace stick, it's suppose to be a canne.


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## dangerboy

FusMR said:
			
		

> .  It's not supposed to be a pace stick, it's suppose to be a canne.



Might be a unit thing, but every RSM I have known has carried a pace stick.  The reason, so he can pace out the companies while on a BN parade.


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## George Wallace

dangerboy said:
			
		

> Might be a unit thing, but every RSM I have known has carried a pace stick.  The reason, so he can pace out the companies while on a BN parade.



That may be true of Inf Bns, but not all RSMs are in Infantry Bns.


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## Danjanou

wallysconce said:
			
		

> Is it generally acceptable for a CWO to carry a pace stick and sword at the same time on parade?



As noted yup. As a side note Day 1 of my MWO course was quite memorable when all of us WO's were required to march with both pace sticks and swords. Amusing to say the least.  8)


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## the 48th regulator

wallysconce said:
			
		

> Is it generally acceptable for a CWO to carry a pace stick and sword at the same time on parade?



I am going against the rest and say No, it is not acceptable.  In fact, I advise that you inform the CWO as soon as possible, and in the most public place you can find.

This type of behaviour must be nipped in the bud, and making an example of him will send the message to others, as well, not to _ever _ make the same mistake.

Good observation, BTW.

dileas

tess


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## Rifleman62

The sword is worn "hooked up" while carrying a Regimental cane or pace stick.


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## medicineman

I seem to recall when I was on parade for a Trooping of the Colour, the RSM, while escorting the Colour actually handed his pace stick off to his minion and drew his sword for the escort.  Upon completion, the sword went back into the scabbard and was carried hooked up, with the pace stick resuming it's normal spot.

MM


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## PteCamp

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I am going against the rest and say No, it is not acceptable.  In fact, I advise that you inform the CWO as soon as possible, and in the most public place you can find.
> 
> This type of behaviour must be nipped in the bud, and making an example of him will send the message to others, as well, not to _ever _ make the same mistake.
> 
> Good observation, BTW.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Really? Was there any reason to be a jack ass like that? Honestly, someone asked a question cause they have probably never seen it happen before and just wanted an answer, no reason to be a jerk about it. I've been in the military a little while now, and I've never seen that happen, so theres a pretty good chance someone with even less time in hasn't seen it either, so there was really no reason for that response.


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## Flap Jack

GypsyPronto said:
			
		

> Really? Was there any reason to be a jack *** like that? Honestly, someone asked a question cause they have probably never seen it happen before and just wanted an answer, no reason to be a jerk about it. I've been in the military a little while now, and I've never seen that happen, so theres a pretty good chance someone with even less time in hasn't seen it either, so there was really no reason for that response.



I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he was being sarcastic because I don't think anyone would be serious and advise you to jack up a RSM.


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## jranrose

Here is a good read for customs and traditions for the Auzzi army based on British customs including the Trooping of the Colour when the RSM draws his sword.

http://www.cadetnet.gov.au/aac/unitsites/70acu/Resourcearea/Documents/Cadet%20Instructor's%20Handbook%20-%20Customs%20and%20Traditions,%202006.pdf


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## the 48th regulator

GypsyPronto said:
			
		

> Really? Was there any reason to be a jack ass like that? Honestly, someone asked a question cause they have probably never seen it happen before and just wanted an answer, no reason to be a jerk about it. I've been in the military a little while now, and I've never seen that happen, so theres a pretty good chance someone with even less time in hasn't seen it either, so there was really no reason for that response.




 :rofl:

Yes, and your response was warranted.  Been in a while, but never have experienced the dark humour or Sarcasm.

Oh why am I even bothering to respond to you....

dileas

tess


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## PteCamp

Flap Jack said:
			
		

> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he was being sarcastic because I don't think anyone would be serious and advise you to jack up a RSM.



I, in no way thought he was serious, and I'm sure the original poster did not either, but if not answering the question there was no reason to say anything at all. Just saying he didn't have to be a jerk about it.


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## OldSolduer

GypsyPronto said:
			
		

> I, in no way thought he was serious, and I'm sure the original poster did not either, but if not answering the question there was no reason to say anything at all. Just saying he didn't have to be a jerk about it.


 :facepalm:
Chill dude. He wasn't being a jerk. He has a sense of humor. Mine is similar.


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## Fishbone Jones

GypsyPronto said:
			
		

> I, in no way thought he was serious, and I'm sure the original poster did not either, but if not answering the question there was no reason to say anything at all. Just saying he didn't have to be a jerk about it.



Lighten up and have some fun.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## Chanada

Don't get the humour or the sarcasm...but Tess' answer actually was right...Truth is (and it is quite possible that in recent years the book has been revised but the tradition/the reality is that if you are on parade and "side-arms/weapons" are carried then that means MWO and below carry side arms (ie rifles and bayonets)...not canes or pacesticks and officers and CWOs carry swords.  In recent years it has become the custom for the RSMs to carry the stick with the sword hooked-up because it marks his appointment on parade and because he only draws it during the second movement of a Trooping anyway.  It may be in the book now but it is a relatively recent (ie past 20 years) tradition/custom.  CSMs and below however...should not be carrying theirs if the parade order calls for weapons to be carried.  Pro Patria


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## OldSolduer

Regimental traditions will differ. What fits The RCR does not always translate into what the rest of the Army does.

 :2c:


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## PanaEng

recceguy said:
			
		

> Lighten up and have some fun.
> 
> Milnet.ca Staff


That's actually what makes this board great: some ppl answer the question some others add colourful or humorous  comments.

cheers,


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## wallysconce

Does anyone have a picture of an RSM carrying both?


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## ModlrMike

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> What fits The RCR does not always translate into what the rest of the Army does.



That's a sentence that could fill volumes!


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## DirtyDog

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> The RCR does not always translate into what the rest of the Army does.


No, but they set the standard....


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## George Wallace

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> No, but they set the standard....



Not in "The Army of the West".    >


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## BernDawg

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> No, but they set the standard....


Thanks, I almost spit coffee all over my key board!!   ;D


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## Blackadder1916

wallysconce said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a picture of an RSM carrying both?



Not one of a Canadian RSM, however, as our traditions of drill and ceremonial flow from the Brits and their master practitioners are the Guards . . .






_The Garrison Sergeant Major, London District salutes indicating that the carriages transporting members of the Royal Family have passed the end of the approach road where the mounted troops are assembled_






_GSM A V "Perry" Mason MVO MBE directing a rehearsal for Trooping the Colour_

And a description of the RSM with pace stick and sword on parade.
http://www.trooping-the-colour.co.uk/trooping/trooping.htm


> An orderly crosses the approach road to take the pace stick from the Regimental Sergeant Major who draws his sword, the only time an RSM will do so on any parade in peacetime.
> 
> The 'Escort For the Colour' marches off in quick time to the tune the 'British Grenadiers'. No matter which regiment's colour is being trooped, the 'British Grenadiers' is always used at this point in the parade because the right flank company of every battalion used to be a grenadier company.
> 
> The Escort marks time whilst the Massed Bands clear the line of march. The Subaltern is now looking for a small white stone 15 paces from the Colour Party where he will halt the Escort.
> 
> The RSM marches from the rear of the Escort, sword drawn in symbolic protection of the Colour. He is followed forward by the 'Ensign For the Colour' who will carry the Colour through the ranks of assembled guardsmen.
> 
> The RSM salutes the Colour, takes a pace forward, receives the Colour in his left hand from the Sergeant of the Colour Party.
> 
> In turn the Ensign salutes the Colour, sheathes his sword, receives the Colour and places it in his colour belt. He then turns and shows the Colour which will be trooped.
> 
> . . . . .


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## OldSolduer

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> No, but they set the standard....



Sorry, I refuse to have the troops paint rocks when they could be shooting or getting fit.


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## Michael OLeary

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Sorry, I refuse to have the troops paint rocks when they could be shooting or getting fit.



In 28 years of regimental service with The RCR, I have never had a soldier paint a rock.


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## Fishbone Jones

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> In 28 years of regimental service with The RCR, I have never had a soldier paint a rock.



Heretic!!!

 ;D


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## the 48th regulator

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> In 28 years of regimental service with The RCR, I have never had a soldier paint a rock.



Alright Folks, Move along, nothing to see here...

Uhm Michael, here, try on this nice white jacket, and come into this nice soft walled room.....That's a good boy.

dileas

tess


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## medicineman

recceguy said:
			
		

> Heretic!!!
> 
> ;D


 :rofl:  I expected Tess to say that.

MM


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## Blackadder1916

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> In 28 years of regimental service with The RCR, I have never had a soldier paint a rock.



Seriously?  Okay, maybe you've never ordered someone to paint a rock; officers are rarely directly responsible for the "whitewash-soldier-rock" paradigm , but you've must have seen someone do it.  The perverted practice of turning perfectly innocent igneous pieces into regimentally pigmented decorations is usually within the purview of Sergeants-Major (often pointing out the location by means of a pace stick but rarely while wearing a sword).

Ahh, evidence you are aware of the practice.


			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> . . . . . not everyone gets to be in serious-minded, drill-focussed, anal-retentive, rock-painting regiments.


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## Michael OLeary

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> ... but you've must have seen someone do it.



Actually, no I haven't.

And my being "aware" of the _apocryphal_ nature of the comment hardly provides proof of its existence in today's army.  How far back would you like to go to claim some dug-up evidence is effectively current proof of your prejudices?


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## Fishbone Jones

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Actually, no I haven't.
> 
> And my being "aware" of the _apocryphal_ nature of the comment hardly provides proof of its existence in today's army.  How far back would you like to go to claim some dug-up evidence is effectively current proof of your prejudices?



Slightly dated of course, but I saw more than ample examples in CANBAT II when Juliet Coy was our guest. Not a paintable surface, virgin or otherwise, was safe from the gallons of Regimental paint that they showed up with. It got so out of hand, IIRC, that they had to be ordered to cease and desist by the camp commander.


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## 57Chevy

Also dated
I'm pretty sure some rocks and other things got the brush too  ;D


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## jranrose

wallysconce said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a picture of an RSM carrying both?



Here u go.


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## jeffb

As hooking up a sword is a practice not done in the guns by officers, do RSM's hook up their swords while carrying a pace stick? There is no reference in the standing orders other then in S. 815 which states "The sword is always worn at the full extent of the slings and is never hooked up." however this section is specifically detailing the wearing of the sword by officers.


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## Rifleman62

I believe it is only the Infantry that do this. 

In the olden days, the DSM (Drill Sergeant Major), an appointment that some infantry regiments perpetuated, also worn a sword hooked up and carried a pace stick, not the Regimental cane (RSM property).


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## jeffb

It is in the Regimental Standing Orders that RSM's wear swords. 

http://www.artillery.net/beta/so8/

S. 816 


> 2. RSMs shall wear their sword carried on a white sword belt (NSN 8440-21-888-7416) with the large regimental buckle. This belt is worn outside the tunic.


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## DirtyDog

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Actually, no I haven't.
> 
> And my being "aware" of the _apocryphal_ nature of the comment hardly provides proof of its existence in today's army.  How far back would you like to go to claim some dug-up evidence is effectively current proof of your prejudices?


Granted, I'm a newbie, but I've NEVER seen such a practice and most people don't even seem to recall it.  Times have changed.  People can think what they want of the Regiment, there is a fair amount of forward thinking going on nowadays but when it comes to the parade square we can still step up and get er done like no other. 

Like my old Sect Comd used to tell me when out of patrol "Real soldiering is done on the parade square!!". ;D


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## Edward Campbell

wallysconce said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a picture of an RSM carrying both?




It is a Brit (Irish Guards), but he is wearing both:





Former Regimental Sergeant Major (now Captain) A Gardner
in full Number Two dress. The Regimental Sergeant Major is
one of the few Non-Commissioned Officers of the Battalion
who are entitled to wear a sword.


It was normal practice (30_ish_+ years ago) for the RSM of 2RCR (I really cannot recall what happened in 1RCR) to wear both and it was the same in at least some other regiments. I haven't paid attention since I was CO of a major unit and could do pretty much as I pleased on parade.


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## Fishbone Jones

It is also normal custom in The Windsor Regiment (RCAC) for the RSM to wear his sword and carry his cane.


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## OldSolduer

This is also the norm in the PPCLI and the Royal Winnipeg Rifles.


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## Michael OLeary

4RCR; Presentation and  Trooping of the Colours in 2008.


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## Franko

Never seen it done in the Armour Corps in 22+ years.

Regards


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## Fishbone Jones

recceguy said:
			
		

> It is also normal custom in The Windsor Regiment (RCAC) for the RSM to wear his sword and carry his cane.





			
				Der Panzerkommandant.... said:
			
		

> Never seen it done in the Armour Corps in 22+ years.
> 
> Regards



Well, DP, we all know the Corps doesn't consider the Reserves truly part of itself. Unless _they_ need people for course staff, deployments, exercises, GDs, equipment, enemy force, echelons, etc. ;D

j\k. Just to good an opening to pass up  We really are one big family.


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## marshall sl

the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada's RSM carries both in No1 Dress. This was at our Trooping and Colours presentation last year.


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## Matt_Fisher

marshall sl said:
			
		

> the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada's RSM carries both in No1 Dress. This was at our Trooping and Colours presentation last year.



Woah,

So a Highland Regiment RSM would in fact be carrying a pace stick, sword, dirk, and a sgian dubh.  1 martial stick, and 3 lethal blades... talk about a parade square ninja!   ;D


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## Franko

recceguy said:
			
		

> Well, DP, we all know the Corps doesn't consider the Reserves truly part of itself. Unless _they_ need people for course staff, deployments, exercises, GDs, equipment, enemy force, echelons, etc. ;D
> 
> j\k. Just to good an opening to pass up  We really are one big family.



I know I know.

Was a reservist myself eons ago....RSM never carried a sword for the 8CH and never saw the RSM for the PEIR do it.

Meh.

Regards


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## Dennis Ruhl

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Sorry, I refuse to have the troops paint rocks when they could be shooting or getting fit.



Guards - on parade.  Their job is to look pretty.  The war thing is secondary.


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## AmmoTech90

I suggest you shut your mouth and think about the Guardsmen who have died soldiering.


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## Nfld Sapper

And that is why many people here including myself have placed you on ignore.....


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## Scott

I've seen enough.

Welcome to the warning system, Dennis.

Staff


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## Ex-Dragoon

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> And that is why many people here including myself have placed you on ignore.....



Milpoints work too....just saying.


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