# Pardons



## Rookie (19 Mar 2003)

Hi everyone,

I have some questions that could be considered "gray area".

First of all I‘m 27 years old. I have a fairly lengthy criminal record. I have spent many years of my life either in adult or youth jails. I am not currently under any probation nor do I have any outstanding fines.

I guess you can say that I wasted away most of my life trying to be tough, and impressive. 

I finally grew up though, and I have not been back to jail since my son was born 5 years ago July.

I ended up working at a store in a mall and made my way up to manager. I held that position for about 6 months, and then I decided I wanted to do more with my life, so I went back to school.

I went to the Toronto School of Buisness and after I was half way through the person who had franchised it out, went bankrupt.

A new school took over for them, and although they had no responsibilities to give me any education, they felt sorry for me and I was allowed to sit in on three more courses for free.

So I do have about 2/3 of a degree as a Network Administrator.

Of course when they went under, I was beat, unless I could commute out of town every day to do my schooling in another city. Now, I don‘t drive, my girlfirend doesn‘t drive, so that wasn‘t a viable option.

I can‘t afford to sue anyone, and I really can‘t sue someone for going bankrupt.

I‘ve tried to obtain employment in the field even without my degree. Most employers seemed very enamoured with me during interviews, however, when they get my criminal record check, I‘m beat every time.

So, I feel I‘m at a cross roads of my life. I‘ve worked so darn hard to get out of a life of crime and to be legit, but yet I find obstacles put up everywhere because of my past.

Now don‘t get mew wrong, what I get now is my own fault. I did my crimes, nobody else, and I take my own responsibility.

My questions arise on two fronts.

One how would I be accepted by not only superiors or teachers, but by my peers if I were to be accepted, because of my past?

Also, I do have a grade 10 education, but not a full highschool, or full college degree. I do however have proof, of my partly completed degree.

So would I be able to get into a full time position, based on those credentials? Or perhaps I could get into the education program through the Army Kingston school I was reading about, but then I wonder would my outstanding debt to the government for my school loans affect my ablility to even do that?

Now I realize that in reading this, it probably appears as though I am looking to join the Army as a last resort in my life, and,...well that would be somewhat true.

However rest assured I have thought about this for a few years, because I believe strongly in world events and I believe strongly in being proud to be Canadian, and free. Each day in this messed up world, I am glad to live in freedom.  

I can‘t say for sure I will succeed, but I do know I am interested, and that I am determined. I also know I am loyal, passionate, and able to read and write as well as anyone who hasn‘t spent a good chunck of their life in prison.

I also recognize a need for structure and meaning in my life. I can‘t be satisfied working construction during the warm weather, and taking what I can get in the winter. I have a strong drive to "go somewhere" or "be someone", ya know?

Anyway, if someone could help me with those questions, and maybe throw a rookie some free advice I would sincerely appreciate your thoughts.


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## Illucigen (19 Mar 2003)

Excellent questions....

1) best of luck.
2) Your best bet would be to apply for a pardon for your offences. Usually you can do so after a good period of time, and if youve proven you are reformed.

Without a pardon, CSIS will not clear you for a security clearance in the government or military. Some times, if someoen has a small record in their very distant past, it will be overlooked depending on the job, but especially if you are looking at RMC, officers in the forces are required to have a Secret Clearance. If that fails to go through, you fail to be commissioned.

Even pardons will not guarantee your clearance, this is national security after all, but you never know, and it owuld help you for other jobs as well.

As far as your debt, remember background checks now often take into consideration the likelyhood of you not paying major bills, and being forced into criminal behaviour such as embezzlement or fraud. Coupled with a criminal record.....

That said, student loans alone, as long as you are paying them, the ROTP programme would be available to you (Royal military college would be open to you) and some of your college credits may be applicable to transfer to unversity courses.

You can always try, after all..

You might also apply to the reserves, and attempt to get funding for school as well, but again, even an NCM must have an enhanced reliability check done, and the first thing they do is search you in CPIC.


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## heed18 (21 Mar 2003)

All i would like to say is that i am 18 and have had my fair share of "problems" in my life but we all have turning points in our life and i know if i got into the reserves and i was in your unit your background or previous complations in your life would not be looked down upon by me i would treat as i would treat the rest of the unit  "as family"


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## steve-o (25 Jan 2005)

I want to re-join the forces, but I have a record from a while ago which didn't affect my original application. However, when I applied for the regular forces, I was told that my record was the only factor that would prevent me from joining. This seemed odd, but I did apply for a Pardons, which will be coming in the next three months(presumably). Can I start the process even though I don't have the Pardons in hand as of yet? I ask this because I know of the extrodinary long waiting period for processing, and I thought it would be nice to shave off a few months of waiting. Thanks in advance.


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## Thirstyson (25 Jan 2005)

I don't think so, because the security form on the application asks if you were convicted of any crimes for which you have not received a pardon. Answering "NO" wouldn't be truthful and would almost surely be caught in the security check.

Just wait for the pardon and best of luck.


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## Tpr.Orange (25 Jan 2005)

No... you are not allowed until you are completely free of all legal obligation


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## kincanucks (27 Jan 2005)

steve-o said:
			
		

> I want to re-join the forces, but I have a record from a while ago which didn't affect my original application. However, when I applied for the regular forces, I was told that my record was the only factor that would prevent me from joining. This seemed odd, but I did apply for a Pardons, which will be coming in the next three months(presumably). Can I start the process even though I don't have the Pardons in hand as of yet? I ask this because I know of the extrodinary long waiting period for processing, and I thought it would be nice to shave off a few months of waiting. Thanks in advance.



If you applied for a pardon then you have had to have finished your legal obligations for the offence.  Without a pardon there may certain waiting periods attached to the offence and the related sentencing that could prevent you from applying to the CF.  Pardons normally take years by the way not months.  PM me with some details and I can give you some indication.  Just the charge, the date of conviction and the sentence, no other details are necessary.


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## BDTyre (26 Mar 2005)

I know questions about pardons come up quite often, so here's a link to an article with some facts and a link to the government's pardon web site.

http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=canada_home&articleID=1882759


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## ccownsu (7 Sep 2006)

So I just realized I have a CR.......so you might be asking yourself how can that be???


Well I was recently laid off when my place of business decided to move overseas, so im currently on EI. 

Sitting at home watching the news I made a choice about a month ago that I wanted to join the military, as I just couldnt see myself sitting in a cubicle for the rest of my life. Spoke about with my kids and wife, started training to lose the beer gut etc

I also decided to get a job while training that would pay more then EI, so I get told I need to bring in a security check from the local police department. No problem, I head over tell  the nice Police Lady I need a CR report........."Im sorry but we cant give you a Report as you have a DUI from 1994, you will have to send off for a pardon which will take like 2 years"

So how Didnt I know???

Well I had a DUI 12 YEARS ago, when I was 18 and stupid me was under the impression that after 5 years it just "went away" lol but no after 5 years you can apply for a pardon.

Anyways the reason I had no idea is because in those twelve years ive a had a few jobs, I even worked in the Government a couple times on contract and received Enhanced Reliability????

So  does anyone know if I actually have to wait 2 years for a pardon, or is this thing about the army only going back 7-10 years mean its no problem? 

FYI the police wont even give you a printout that says I have a DUI conviction from 12 years ago(which I was gonna take to the interviewer and hope common sense would say I had 1 stupid mistake 12 years ago and they would still hire me), you have to send away to the RCMP for that which takes like 6 months then you send that somewhere to actually get pardoned.


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## Trinity (7 Sep 2006)

Something isn't adding up here.. (not saying its you)

I went and got on the other day in Toronto (at metro police).  Stand in a line up forever, 
give them your info via a form and $20?? and they mail it to you.

It should matter if you do or don't have anything on your criminal record,
it's still your right to get it on writing.

Where do you live and what process are you using to acquire your CR?

Yes.. upon research a pardon might take up to two years but
regardless of your Army career/ambition I would suggest you
start now for your pardon.  
https://www.canadianpardons.ca/


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## Hockeycaper (7 Sep 2006)

From my personal experience.....while applying( 14 years ago) I also had a CR. 

The Recruiting center while doing back ground search found CR( I thought I was a juvenile at the time) This and put my file on the shelf for 6 months ( no movement ,no review)....during this time I had to get my pardon. It very well could take you 2 years to get a pardone as you need to apply for back ground checks and forms from the RCMP.( can't remember the name or numbers but you definitely need the "charge sheet" or court document stating your actual charge) 
However by the time you receive all the forms you need to apply for your pardon,the first form expires and then you have to apply again, before submitting your application. It can be a pain in the butt, however if you don't get it done you will not get in.

Good Luck


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 Sep 2006)

Boy, things have changed since 78..........they cut the waiting period to 4 months instead of the normal 6 months after PROBATION, [never mind the CR] if I would go combat arms.


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## kincanucks (7 Sep 2006)

ccownsu said:
			
		

> So I just realized I have a CR.......so you might be asking yourself how can that be???
> 
> 
> Well I was recently laid off when my place of business decided to move overseas, so im currently on EI.
> ...



You don't need a pardon to apply to the CF but you must indicate on the application form that you have a conviction.

Try spell check next time.

HH


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## x-grunt (7 Sep 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Yes.. upon research a pardon might take up to two years but
> regardless of your Army career/ambition I would suggest you
> start now for your pardon.
> https://www.canadianpardons.ca/



Agreed. You never know when or where someone will ask for a criminal check. Lots of jobs and volunteer positions require a record check now, esp if there's kids involved. Wanna be a coach at your kids little league team? You may need to pass a records check soon. And of course you never know where your CF career might lead you, it is well advised to clear up anything that may haunt you in future.

It takes time to do, start now. It costs a few bucks but it's a painless process.


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## ccownsu (7 Sep 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Something isn't adding up here.. (not saying its you)
> 
> I went and got on the other day in Toronto (at metro police).  Stand in a line up forever,
> give them your info via a form and $20?? and they mail it to you.
> ...




No they seriously will not give you a printout showing the CR....

You have to get it from the RCMP which takes like 6 months, then send that to wherever to get your pardon.

But does anyone know about this move by Harper to fast track recruits by only going back seven years instead of ten for Security Checks?? Has this actually been implemented yet? and if so doesnt that mean I would be fine? (10 years I should be fine as well)

I have now started the process for a Pardon, but I really dont want to wait 1-2 years


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## gnplummer421 (7 Sep 2006)

Hi,

I applied for, and received a pardon for an offence committed while in the Military.(late 80's) It took 18 months all told. Afterwards, my Admin Officer accompanied me to the MP shack, and my record was cleared. Somewhere in Ottawa, it is still in some database, but will not show up in a general search.


Gnplummer421


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## kincanucks (7 Sep 2006)

_But does anyone know about this move by Harper to fast track recruits by only going back seven years instead of ten for Security Checks?? Has this actually been implemented yet? and if so doesnt that mean I would be fine? (10 years I should be fine as well)_

Okay for the hard of reading:

You don't need a pardon to apply to the CF but you must indicate on the application form that you have a conviction.

_But does anyone know about this move by Harper to fast track recruits by only going back seven years instead of ten for Security Checks?? Has this actually been implemented yet? and if so doesnt that mean I would be fine? (10 years I should be fine as well)_

Security check has nothing to do with your reliability check.  if you want to join the CF and all you have is a DUI from 12 freaking years ago then you have nothing to worry about.  If you want to get a pardon then get a freaking pardon but it is not required for you to apply to the CF and it won't make a freaking difference to your career.  Got it!!


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## big bad john (7 Sep 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> _But does anyone know about this move by Harper to fast track recruits by only going back seven years instead of ten for Security Checks?? Has this actually been implemented yet? and if so doesnt that mean I would be fine? (10 years I should be fine as well)_
> 
> Okay for the hard of reading:
> 
> ...



You are always so eloquent!


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## Michael OLeary (7 Sep 2006)

big bad john said:
			
		

> You are always so eloquent!



And soon we can ask him technical gunnery questions too.  Like "explain probable errors?", and "why do IGs wear an antique hat?"   ;D


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## kincanucks (8 Sep 2006)

_You are always so eloquent!_

Thank you, I think.


_"explain probable errors?", _ 

Still waiting for that lecture.

_"why do IGs wear an antique hat?"   _ 

Bcause they are so damn sexy.


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## pronto (8 Sep 2006)

Todays lecture: big gun go boom, bad guy go splat...

(Seems easy to me).... Tea Time, Kincanucks?


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## ccownsu (8 Sep 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> _But does anyone know about this move by Harper to fast track recruits by only going back seven years instead of ten for Security Checks?? Has this actually been implemented yet? and if so doesnt that mean I would be fine? (10 years I should be fine as well)_
> 
> Okay for the hard of reading:
> 
> ...



Thanks Kincanucks, Hopefully if everything goes well I will be doing my part for Canada in a few months!


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## kincanucks (8 Sep 2006)

pronto said:
			
		

> Todays lecture: big gun go boom, bad guy go splat...
> 
> (Seems easy to me).... Tea Time, Kincanucks?



It is always tea time.


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## Ducimus BTC (17 Nov 2012)

I am currently in the process of re enrolling in the CF. My question is if I start the process for a pardon for a criminal offense, will this complicate my application with the CF. For example, when it comes time to continue the application process or receive an offer, will my pending pardon be seen as a legal obligation and delay my hopeful career in the CF?

(The search bar function was exercised with no result, apologies if the question has already been asked)


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## mariomike (17 Nov 2012)

Ducimus BTC said:
			
		

> For example, when it comes time to continue the application process or receive an offer, will my pending pardon be seen as a legal obligation and delay my hopeful career in the CF?



Legal Obligations

Additionally, you must not have any form of legal obligation. Every CF applicant must complete the reliability screening process and be conferred with Reliability Status (RS) prior to enrolment. Reliability screening is a systematic method of confirming that an individual can be expected to be reliable and trustworthy based on the verification of Reliability Checks (RC) as follows: personal data, employment history, education / professional qualifications and personal and employment references, as well as the completion of a Criminal Record Name Check (CRNC) and a credit background check. 

Assuming that you meet the eligibility criteria listed above, if you have a Criminal Code of Canada or Controlled Drugs and Substances Act conviction (or more than one conviction) as long as you have served your sentence(s) and no longer have a legal obligation then you may apply to the CF. Please note that you do not require a pardon in order to apply.
 
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/faq-101#joining-0


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## Retired AF Guy (17 Nov 2012)

mariomike said:
			
		

> Legal Obligations
> 
> Assuming that you meet the eligibility criteria listed above, if you have a Criminal Code of Canada or Controlled Drugs and Substances Act conviction (or more than one conviction) as long as you have served your sentence(s) and no longer have a legal obligation then you may apply to the CF. Please note that you do not require a pardon in order to apply.
> 
> http://www.forces.ca/en/page/faq-101#joining-0



I would think the severity of the sentence may have influence on whether the CF will accept you.


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## Ducimus BTC (17 Nov 2012)

I appreciate your responses, 
My charges are not drug or assault related. I should have worded my question differently. 

Correction

Is the process of a pardon considered a legal obligation? Can anyone see this as being an obstacle in a CF application if the pardon is not completed in time?

I do plan on asking a recruiter, I do want to exercise the use of this forum first.


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## The_Falcon (18 Nov 2012)

Going through the process to request a pardon is not a legal obligation. 

But if you are requesting a pardon, while still in the middle of serving your sentence whatever that maybe, than yes that is a legal obligation.

Also until(if you get one) you have a pardon, you must still truthfully answer that you have indeed been convicted of a crime.


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## Occam (18 Nov 2012)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Going through the process to request a pardon is not a legal obligation.
> 
> But if you are requesting a pardon, while still in the middle of serving your sentence whatever that maybe, than yes that is a legal obligation.
> 
> Also until(if you get one) you have a pardon, you must still truthfully answer that you have indeed been convicted of a crime.



The part in yellow is moot because you have to wait 5 (or 10) years after all legal obligations (including probation, etc.) arising from the conviction are complete before being eligible for a pardon.  You'd be ineligible for enrolment because you're still fulfilling legal obligations, not because you've initiated the pardon process.

The rest is correct.


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## The_Falcon (18 Nov 2012)

Ah thanks, I have never been convicted on any criminal offence ergo never needed to look into how one applies for a pardon.


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## PrettyMaggie63 (18 Nov 2012)

Occam said:
			
		

> The part in yellow is moot because you have to wait 5 (or 10) years after all legal obligations (including probation, etc.) arising from the conviction are complete before being eligible for a pardon.  You'd be ineligible for enrolment because you're still fulfilling legal obligations, not because you've initiated the pardon process.
> 
> The rest is correct.



Correct, you have to wait 5 or 10 years to apply for a record suspension (pardon) if you received a conviction for an indictable offense, but that does not mean your legal obligation is 5 or 10 years. You may have received probation for one or two years, and that is what needs to be completed before you can begin the process. You can still apply if you have a criminal record, you do not have to wait for the record suspension to be completed.


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## mariomike (18 Nov 2012)

Ducimus BTC said:
			
		

> Can anyone see this as being an obstacle in a CF application if the pardon is not completed in time?



More on pardons and CF applications.

"Pardons":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12874.0

"I have spent many years of my life either in adult or youth jails. I am not currently under any probation nor do I have any outstanding fines."


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## Ducimus BTC (18 Nov 2012)

Thanks for all of your replies,

I meet all requirements to be eligible for a pardon so that is all cleared up (probation, wait times etc). My only concern was that if I started the pardon process that I would have legal obligations as far as attending court or a hearing, that is all. I will read into the links provided. Now the only thing is the fee,  its gone up quite a bit this year (and rightfully so). Thanks again for the input everyone.


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