# Question about joining as a Medic



## desjardins

i am interested in becoming a medic. how are they assigned to their positions within a regiment or battalion? do they have their own regiment and then are assigned to a battalion when they are deployed or are they assigned from the beginning and train with their battalion?


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## Armymedic

To open, good question.

First in medical services there is no regiments of battalion. The largest medical units in the CF are the Fd Ambs, 1 Can Field Hosp, and the base and area supporting units called HSOTUs (Health Support Operational Training Unit).

Once you are posted to one of these larger medical units you will be tasked to support (NOT posted) the Army, Navy or Air Force.

In Petawawa, we have 3 large med units. 2 Fd Amb provides supports to 2 CMBG, 1 CFH who support at the brigade or higher level, and CMED (central medical equipment depot) who support missions with equipment but provide no personnel.

If you want to support the Cbt arms of CSS units, you need to be posted to a Fd Amb. Once you have worked there and proven yourself (or been real lucky) you may as soon as 2yrs afterward be tasked to a unit for first line support.

Once you are at a UMS, then you are considered attached to the unit and do what they do, and provide medical support whenever they need it.

Saying all that, the system of UMS is changing and most (including me) are not sure how exactly we are going to be employed. Saying that, there will always be a spot for a fit, well educated well motivated medic to be employed with the infantry company in the field.


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## islandforce

I have a couple of questions regarding the medic trade: Hope somone out there can answer them.

1.  If you are a medic in the airforce and you do well in your trade training, what are the chances of you being posted to a base hospital or are you going straight to a field unit?  What exactly do you do in a field unit?

2.  What is considered QL3 for a medic:  The first component of trade training which is four months in Borden plus the three months in Chiliwack, BC or is it just the Borden portion?

3.  Do you medics enjoy your trade?  Was it a good carreer choice?


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## Armymedic

First there is no such thing as a "air force" medic, only medics who support the air force. Medics do not belong to any of the three elements of teh CF, They are thier own gruoping (CFMG) under the Human Resources Military (HR Mil) director.

I will begin by telling you to read for a while all the info on the site, search out answers, and learn on your own...that is one quality of a good Med Tech, to research. Secondly, if you have been accepted as a Reg F med tech, your recruiter will also answer these questions if you ask. 

to answer directly:
1. Because the majority of positions are in the army, and they have been filling all the other bases, chances are your going to the field. If you do not want that, stay home. What your role is depends on what unit you are with and what job your are doing on that particular day. You will be expected to do army stuff, like working with weapons, maintaining vehicles and medical equipment as well as doing medical job like patient care and taskings. It is the army supporting medical units who have the majority of the tasks overseas. Most of my daily task is supervising the running of a unit medical station which is like a walk-in clinic for the infantry and artillery units I support. I have another Sgt who works beside me, 2 MCpls, 8 QL 5's and 4 QL 3s who see 15-50 pts a day. Plus we support them on exercise etc. The medic see and treat patients within thier training qualifications, dispense medications, and track and keep patient records.

2. QL 3 is that. Whether your PCP training is in BC or Borden depends on what course you are on and when.

3. Some do, some don't. I love it, but there are days that fustrate me, because I really like doing my job, and doing it well. Others can't wait to get out.


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## Cansky

Medics wear any of the 3 element uniforms, but having said that it doesn't mean you'll serve exclusivley with that element.  I have a navy medic who has never in 17 years been on ship.  I wear an army uniform and have been in an airforce unit.  Reality is you can expect to go to the army regardless of the uniform but I have many Pte here in Gagetown who have never gone to the Fd Ambs.  With so many deployments on the go, they are trying to increase the manning in the army units.  But there is a reluctance to let QL 3's on deployment.  Having said that many have gotten to go but usually as drivers and not as medics.  I know for the deployment with 2 RCR in 2007, right now no QL3's will be going.
Kirsten


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## tookieman

I want to be a medic  

looking to join a reseve medic unit.  I have bmq/sq.  I really want to go to afghanistan, really really bad!  and soon as possible.  My quesiton is about the medic training.  How many summers will it take until iD be qualified to go to afghanistan?  How is it for medics going over?  are they in demand?  If i am a reserve medic will the army pay for a 6 month army medic course?  any kinda of info from ANYONE would be just fantastic!!! thanks guys!


P.s. i am NEW


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## Thompson_JM

Ladies and Gentlemen... 


Gimmie an S

Gimmie an E

Gimmie an A

Gimmie an R

Gimmie an C

Gimmie an H

What do you get?

SEARCH! 

I realize youre new, but seriously... give the search function a shot first. or maybe look around the forums first. we do have a dedicated CSS Sub Board just for the Medics. Try there.

in the meantime, maybe the Mods could Move or Lock this one.

Regards
  Josh


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## Michael OLeary

OK, tookieman, so you're new here, and you want to be a medic and you want to go to Afghanistan. So, let's start with some questions:

How old are you?

What grade are you in, or what education have you completed?

Where do you live? 

Have you investigated whether there are any Reserve medical units in your city?

Are you prepared to move to a different city to join a Reserve medical unit if there are none in your own city?

Have you visited a CFRC (Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre)?

Have you investigated the requirements for enrolment on the Canadian Forces recruiting site?

Have you searched for that information here?

Have you searched for information here on training of medical personnel?

Have you found the Medical Group sub-board in the Combat Service Support and Branches Forum here?


Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977

Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure:
http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.


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## Armymedic

If you want to be a medic and go to Afghanistan;
Hurry up, join the Reg F, complete your BMQ and Med Tech QL 3 tng, and get to either 1 or 2 Fd Amb.  Then, possilbly, if you not junk, and work hard enough to earn the respect of Sr NCOs like me, you may possibly earn the priviledge to go over and support the troops.

Judging by you intial posts though.... ain't happening.

Prove me wrong.


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## medic31

As our last poster pointed out I too highly recommend you go the regular route. The only res. medic I saw on tour wasnt even working as a medic. The unfortunate thing between Reg and Res is that there are huge gaps between our readiness levels. Side by side the Reg. and Res medic who hold the same qualifications are like night and day. You absolutley want to be in the rgular force.


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## Hoover

Guy I know will have 2 tours of Afghanistan in his first 6 year contract as a medic.


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## Jagd

Wait a sec. 6 Year Contract? I thought it was only a 3 year contract or is it longer for medics for some reason?


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## medicineman

New Basic Engagement for Med Techs is 6 years now because of the time and money it takes to get the person to an operational level - the government wants a bit of work and time out of you.  Oh yeah, we`re a little short of junior techs at the moment as well, so they`d like to hold on to you for a bit.

MM


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## Jagd

Would that be 6 years for both Regular and Reserve force medics? And if its another 3 years on your contract, just how long does it actually take to become a qualified medic, and would it be the same for both the reserves and regular force?


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## The_Falcon

Randy15 said:
			
		

> Would that be 6 years for both Regular and Reserve force medics? And if its another 3 years on your contract, just how long does it actually take to become a qualified medic, and would it be the same for both the reserves and regular force?



Do a SEARCH!!! These have all been answered before.


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## Jagd

How hard would it have been to answer those questions, really. And yes I will do a search so theres no need answer this.


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## Armymedic

Randy15 said:
			
		

> Would that be 6 years for both Regular and Reserve force medics? And if its another 3 years on your contract, just how long does it actually take to become a qualified medic, and would it be the same for both the reserves and regular force?



rather simple for short answers. Quite a bit more difficult if you need explinations.

Reg F med tech, once your are complete basic tng, 18 weeks of QL 3 training before you are posted to your unit. OTJ for 24 months thru MCSP. You should also do a dvr course and possibly a comms course if you are in a fd unit. Once served 3 yrs past your QL 3 then you are placed on your 10 week QL 5. As a QL5, you are now a fully trained med tech. 

The difference between Reg and Res F med techs is that they are no where near comparable.



			
				Randy15 said:
			
		

> How hard would it have been to answer those questions, really. And yes I will do a search so theres no need answer this.



Thats good, cause one of the things you need to do as a med tech is learn to research your own answers.


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## Jagd

Thanks for your help, I still have a couple questions and I'm a little unclear about some things but I'll just PM you about them.


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## DanielleAnne

I have decided to join the CF. I want to be a medic. I was reading the sub board and got kind of confused. Is the medic trade in need of people or not?


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## kincanucks

DanielleAnne said:
			
		

> I have decided to join the CF. I want to be a medic. I was reading the sub board and got kind of confused. Is the medic trade in need of people or not?



We are currently recruiting all trades for the next FY and as long as you meet the minimum educational requirements (High School Diploma with Gr 12 Biology and Gr 12 Chemistry or Physics) you can apply for Med Tech and if you are deemed suitable you may be merited for a position and if selected in competition with all the other Med Tech wannabes you may be offered a position.


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## DanielleAnne

Okay neat, I would just prefer to do somthing that no-one really wants to do, so if there are tons of people wanting to be medics I am going to find somthing else.


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## GO!!!

DanielleAnne said:
			
		

> Okay neat, I would just prefer to do somthing that no-one really wants to do, so if there are tons of people wanting to be medics I am going to find somthing else.



Why?

Did it occur to you that no-one wants to do those things for a reason?


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## MikeL

If you want to be a medic, why not go for it? Who cares if theres other people applying for it? 


If you want to go for a job that not many people apply for, go fridge tech or something.


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## medicineman

According to my last career brief, we are at least 200 Junior Med Techs short - so if you're interested, ask for it.

MM


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## Armymedic

Gee, let me check if we are short....

(looking around, seeing empty hallways, because everyone is gone, going, or on leave from being on tour)


Yep, we're short.

But that doesn't mean we want anyone with a pulse. There is already enough Junk....a brain, a good work ethic, and physically fit is quite essential as well.


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## DanielleAnne

You see I am the type of person who would rather have any job than no job at all. I used to work in a nursing home wiping old people butts. I really didn't want to go into a trade that I would never get called for.


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## spud

DanielleAnne said:
			
		

> I used .......wiping old people butts.



We called that trade "Stewards" in the Navy..........


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## 043

Armymedic said:
			
		

> But that doesn't mean we want anyone with a pulse. *There is already enough Junk*



So very well said!!!!!!!!!!


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## DanielleAnne

I have brains at least if I can find where I left them, work ethic I have that, muscles well......... :warstory:


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## dont.get.it.48

I think it's best that you go in a occupation that you want, not one that no one wants. If you end up to hate the occupation you signed up for, your going to have a miserable time till you can switch occupations. But if  you still want to go for one that the CF is in need for, I heard there in major need for combate arms traits, like the infantry would be one of the biggest ones there in need for (according the the medic i talked to yesterday).


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## punkd

Straight from the recruiting site..

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/home/index_e.aspx

Hot Jobs:

Learn more about these specialized, in-demand professions:

 Pilot
Family Physician
Nursing
Warship Navigator
Naval Electronics
Signal Operator
Naval Engineer


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## herseyjh

I would say going medic would be a smart way to go.  The medical branch is short people, and it is my understanding that med-As are getting trained to civi standards (PCP I think) so that means you could spend a few years or a career in the medics and if you want to move on you have an 'out' games, ie civi EMS.  I did it the other way going infantry then moving over to the medical branch after I realized that there are very limited options for an ex-infantry guy in the civilian world.

That is my two cents worth anyway:  Go medic, see if you like it, stay in or get out and move on to civi EMS.


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## Armymedic

herseyjh said:
			
		

> I would say going medic would be a smart way to go.  The medical branch is short people, and it is my understanding that med-As are getting trained to civi standards (PCP I think) so that means you could spend a few years or a career in the medics and if you want to move on you have an 'out' games, ie civi EMS.



Try that and let me know how it works for you. It is a civilian equivalency, NOT a civilian qualification.

If you want to be a civilian paramedic, do not join the Regular Force. It is not the same.


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## DanielleAnne

I just know that I want to work hard. I really couldn't care if I had to be a fridge tech. I had read that there weren't very many medic jobs, but if there is whoooo I am meeting with a recruiter on March 9th any suggestions?


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## spud

I have searched and not being the brightest bulb in the box am forced to ask about the 2nd portion of the Medic training (either in BC or Montral). Does this take place immediately after the intial MOC course of 16 weeks or is it more like a QL5 course, taken after a period of OJT?

Thanks,
potato


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## DanielleAnne

Yeah I want to know too. I am trying to figure out where I am going to have to move to.


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## Donut

Under the Combat Service Support board, there's a whole sub-board of Medical types, including the answer to those questions, if I recall.

Anglo candidates for now take their PCP in Chilliwack, BC.  Franco students in Quebec.  I don't believe there's an OJT requirment for your PCP.  It's part of the initial MOC course, in addition to the time spent in Borden.



			
				spud said:
			
		

> the 2nd portion of the Medic training (either in BC or Montral). Does this take place immediately after the intial MOC course of 16 weeks or is it more like a QL5 course, taken after a period of OJT?
> 
> Thanks,
> potato




DF


Did this topic get moved, or was I on crack last night?!?


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## RogueMedic

I would recommend anyone wanting to go medic to give it all you got.  I did 3-1/2 years as one and feel I am a better person for doing it.  There were many ups and downs.... but nothing compares to feeling you get when you help someone in need.  Very rewarding experience!


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## CosmoK

If you don't mind, what are some of the downs?  And why did you get out?  Where are you now?

And i'm having trouble finding this...can anyone confirm if the Reg Force trade of Med Tech is a 3 year contract, or 6?


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## RogueMedic

Hey CosmoK.  

I think one of the major downs is doing your time as a QL3 in the cage (Fd Amb) and waiting to get on your QL5 course.  After just under 3 years as a medic (not including time for basic and my medical training in Borden) I was still not slated for mine.  When you start out (most likely in a Fd Amb) there is a whole lot of vehicle maintenance and slinging canvas.  This was of course during my period (2000-2003) and I can't state truefully what things are like now.  My only saving grace while in the cage was the field exercises.  It is in the field that you get a good chance to challenge yourself and put your skills to use.    

The amount of pain that you endure is totally up to you.  If you work hard and keep on your studies (and have a little luck on your side) you will be presented with more appealing opportunities.  After your time in the cage you could get lucky enough to be moved to an ambulance company (AMB COY) were you will have ample opportunities for taskings.  You get paired with a QL5 and finally get to do what you were trained to do.  You can also be placed in a BMS (clinic) to further your skills.  

Eventually you will be sent on your QL5 course and come back fully deployable.  My advice to you is to have patience and work hard and you will eventually get what you want.

I got out because military life was hard on my family.  I always told everyone afterwards that the military is an amazing life for a single guy.....  It can be very taxing on a family and you really need a strong partner by your side to weather it.  I was also impatient with the speed at which my training was progressing (once again... I don't know what things are like now) and needed to be challenged more.  Without the family stresses.... I would have been able to overcome the boredom part of it.  

Where am I now................  I attempted to use my training as an equivalency in Ontario and was told it wouldn't be accepted (My training was to BC's JI standard as opposed to the CMA standard... which I think is being taught now).  I came back to Alberta and now am working as the head of my company's Quality and Safety program for all of our branches in Alberta.  It was my military and medical background that landed me this job so my time spent in the service was as valuable as ever.  After you join you never know where life is going to take you... even after you get out.  All I can say is no matter what... you are not wasting your time by trying.  

As to your last question... When I signed up it was 3 years... From what I have heard due to the attrition rate in this particular field they have changed it to 6 years.

Hope this answers your questions CosmoK.

Later


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## CosmoK

Hey RogueMedic thanks for your reply!  Wow, seems like quite a journey.  Thanks for sharing your experiences as it has definitely helped me.  I have only been thinking about Medic as a "backup" but my heart is in firefighting and that's where it will stay...I will wait and wait and wait if I have to.  

Oh yeah, if you really wanna be a Paramedic in Ontario you just have to set aside 52 weeks and about $20k and do the PCP paramedic course at a private school and then you'll be done.  That is, if you can afford the time and money....plus with your experience the program should be a breeze.

Thanks again!


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## herseyjh

CosmoK,

My EMS experience is mostly western Canada, but here I know some systems look for dual certified guys for the fire department, so your 1001 and then your PCP or ACP depending on how they staff.  So the medic idea could be a backup plan as well as a way to bolster you chances of getting on with a department full time.

As for the PCP option there are more options than just Ontario.  PCP courses seem to be all over the place from a few months to over a year, but as long as they have CMA approval that should help moving between Provinces.  The JI is not a bad. NAIT and SAIT in Alberta are ok.

'A paramedic who has completed a paramedic training program accredited by the CMA at the Primary Care Paramedic (PCP) or Advanced Care Paramedic (ACP) level and holds a license or certification as a PCP or ACP from a recognized province or territory can apply for AIT Equivalency.'

The quote is from the Ontario Paramedic Association web site.  Sadly, I have to add, that the only 100% way to ensure you can work in a Province is by taking your training there.  I wish EMS could get it's xenophobic head out of it's ass in this respect.  You could midigate this by seeking prior appoval before taking a out of Province program.


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## Armymedic

If you are joining just to be a paramedic....Don't.

We do far more then that.  If you come to Fd Amb in Petawawa, you'll be too busy to take the courses.


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## The_Falcon

herseyjh said:
			
		

> CosmoK,
> 
> My EMS experience is mostly western Canada, but here I know some systems look for dual certified guys for the fire department, so your 1001 and then your PCP or ACP depending on how they staff.  So the medic idea could be a backup plan as well as a way to bolster you chances of getting on with a department full time.
> 
> As for the PCP option there are more options than just Ontario.  PCP courses seem to be all over the place from a few months to over a year, but as long as they have CMA approval that should help moving between Provinces.  The JI is not a bad. NAIT and SAIT in Alberta are ok.
> 
> 'A paramedic who has completed a paramedic training program accredited by the CMA at the Primary Care Paramedic (PCP) or Advanced Care Paramedic (ACP) level and holds a license or certification as a PCP or ACP from a recognized province or territory can apply for AIT Equivalency.'
> 
> The quote is from the Ontario Paramedic Association web site.  Sadly, I have to add, that the only 100% way to ensure you can work in a Province is by taking your training there.  I wish EMS could get it's xenophobic head out of it's *** in this respect.  You could midigate this by seeking prior appoval before taking a out of Province program.



The problem with Ontario is regardless of whether you have PCP or ACP, the Ministry of Health requires you to have your AEMCA designation which is something else entirely, and requires over 1000 hrs of field experience  (ride alongs).  Unfortuantely, as I think Armymedic or Old Medic pointed out in another thread, the CF Medical Technician training while providing you with PCP designation, does not provide the field experience required for an AEMCA designation.


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## RogueMedic

Hey Armymedic..

What's it like to be a medic these days compared to 3 years ago?  Has much changed since then?  I spent my time in 1 Fd Amb and I know Petawawa is different (we almost took DART from you guys   ) and I would like to know what the trade is like now.  Did you ever do time in 1 Fd Amb?

Later.


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## medicineman

I spent 6 1/2 years in 1 Fd Amb from 89-95 - hope it's improved some.  Having said that, after being attached to 2 Fd Amb for 3 months shortly thereafter, I rarely run 1 Fd Amb down any more.

MM


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## MedTech708

I'm going for my threes next year... anyone want to tell me what it's like?


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## Armymedic

Are you Reg F or Res F?

You show up in Borden, they teach you medical stuff...then you go to Chilliwack, they show you more medical stuff, and then you are done.


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## The_Falcon

I have a question for you Armymedic, now I know that while the reg force Med Tech training qualifies one as a PCP but not an Ontario AEMCA, would it be possible to complete the necessary requirments (the clinicaly and ride out portions mainly) at a community college (Loyalist in bancroft) if they offer the paramedic program on a part-time basis (Friday nights, Sat and/or Sunday).  Seeing as how all that would be needed is the clinical/ride-out hours and not much else (assuming one is successly in getting Loyalist to accept all the training completed at JIBC), I think this would be possible assuming you guys at 2 Fd Amb get most weekends off.  Any info/thoughts on this idea that you can provide would be helpful.


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## Armymedic

Yes it is possible.

AFIK, Loyalist in Bancroft does not accept the JIBC programs, so you have to do the majority of their part time program.

You need 400 hrs ridealong, plus clinical rotations plus doing the exams. It is allot of time and money when you do not have a whole bunch of either. We just don't get the volume of calls the make it worthwhile, and there is not a whole bunch of spots avail here either.

I only know of one person who has done that here in Pet, and it took her 4 yrs to complete the partial course she needed to complete. We are just too busy here to do that. More often the Francophone medics trained in Que, go to Ottawa/Hull and work, but again hard when we have been deploying people ever 12-18 months.

Not to mention Bancroft is 2+ hours away down Hwy 60, which isn't exactly the 401.


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## CosmoK

Hey Hatchetman,

If you wanna be a civvie medic in Ontario then just take either the 2 year community college program, the Loyalist part time program, or the 52 week CTS school program (private) or the CTC 16 month program (private).  That way you won't have any worries.  Sure you'll have to pay out of your pocket and take the time to do it, but if that's your goal I would get it done...the jobs ARE starting to dry up.

You'll have a crapload of issues to deal with by trying to get your A-EMCA by using the JIBC program and like Armymedic said, it will take YEARS and you'll end up doing most of the Ontario program anyway.

All depends what you want...military life (6 year contract) or civvie life...


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## The_Falcon

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Yes it is possible.
> 
> AFIK, Loyalist in Bancroft does not accept the JIBC programs, so you have to do the majority of their part time program.
> 
> You need 400 hrs ridealong, plus clinical rotations plus doing the exams. It is allot of time and money when you do not have a whole bunch of either. We just don't get the volume of calls the make it worthwhile, and there is not a whole bunch of spots avail here either.
> 
> I only know of one person who has done that here in Pet, and it took her 4 yrs to complete the partial course she needed to complete. We are just too busy here to do that. More often the Francophone medics trained in Que, go to Ottawa/Hull and work, but again hard when we have been deploying people ever 12-18 months.
> 
> Not to mention Bancroft is 2+ hours away down Hwy 60, which isn't exactly the 401.



Thanks for the info, it looked like a good idea on paper and in my head.



			
				CosmoK said:
			
		

> Hey Hatchetman,
> 
> If you wanna be a civvie medic in Ontario then just take either the 2 year community college program, the Loyalist part time program, or the 52 week CTS school program (private) or the CTC 16 month program (private).  That way you won't have any worries.  Sure you'll have to pay out of your pocket and take the time to do it, but if that's your goal I would get it done...the jobs ARE starting to dry up.
> 
> You'll have a crapload of issues to deal with by trying to get your A-EMCA by using the JIBC program and like Armymedic said, it will take YEARS and you'll end up doing most of the Ontario program anyway.
> 
> All depends what you want...military life (6 year contract) or civvie life...



I never said I wanted to be a civvie medic, and I already know what I have to do to become one.  I was interested in whether this loyalist thing would work, because I don't read crystal balls, and I wanted to make sure if something happened that cut short an army career, I wouldn't be stuck spinning my wheels, I would have an out so to speak.


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## CosmoK

That's cool.  I was just trying to help  ;D


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## Inspir

How do CF Med Tech qualification flow with Alberta ACP standards?


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## Inspir

Inspir said:
			
		

> How do CF Med Tech qualification flow with Alberta ACP standards?



Nevermind, found it:

_Apprentice Medical Assistant (QL3 and/or 711) and Journeyman Medical Assistant (QL5 and/or737) are acceptable at the EMT level with documented field ambulance experience.

Levels QL3 Medic, OQ5A Medic and QL5A Medic are acceptable at the EMT level.

Graduates prior to the new programs listed above must be at the TQ5A Medic level with
documented field ambulance experience._

http://www.collegeofparamedics.org/acp_downloads/registration/approvedprog.pdf


No ACP equivalent


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## The_Falcon

Inspir said:
			
		

> Nevermind, found it:
> 
> _Apprentice Medical Assistant (QL3 and/or 711) and Journeyman Medical Assistant (QL5 and/or737) are acceptable at the EMT level with documented field ambulance experience.
> 
> Levels QL3 Medic, OQ5A Medic and QL5A Medic are acceptable at the EMT level.
> 
> Graduates prior to the new programs listed above must be at the TQ5A Medic level with
> documented field ambulance experience._
> 
> http://www.collegeofparamedics.org/acp_downloads/registration/approvedprog.pdf
> 
> 
> No ACP equivalent



And it looks like you would still need to do ride outs with the local EMS.


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## herseyjh

I forget what the fees are to apply for EMT level.  I think it is about $200 give or take, plus then you have to register then write the provincial exam.  Still cheaper then doing an EMT and a BLS practicum, but unless you are looking for the ACP, or EMT-P (as Alberta calls it), working as a EMT in Alberta is the fastest way to go broke and get pissed off all at the same time.  BC, on the other hand hires PCPs (casual mind you) but still a better start that you will find in Alberta.


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## Future Prodigy

I know its been asked before about why you joined the CF in general but I could not find a thread that asked why you joined the medical branch over others. I feel more compelled to join as a med tech than say a infantry solider, but i have my reasons and was wondering what yours were?


----------



## Gunner98

After 14 years in the Artillery, I was somewhat physically and mentally broken, so I thought I might just as well work with those who were keeping me alive and my screws tightened.


----------



## Future Prodigy

sorry another component to the question i meant to add - why did you guys who chose med tech do so over the civvie equivalent?


----------



## Jarnhamar

ohh, I'll bite FP, why are you _compelled_ to join as a med tech than say an infantry soldier?


----------



## Blackadder1916

What civvy equivalent?  Of course it's been a couple of decades since I was a MA, but things probably haven't changed so much as to be unrecognizable.  Training and employment may be more focused initially on pre-hospital care than in the past but a recipe for a medic could be said to include one part Primary Care Paramedic, one part Licensed Practical Nurse, one part Truck Driver, one part Medical Administrative Clerk, throw in a dash of Infanteer, Signaller and Supply Tech (or a really good scrounger) and you may have the makings of a junior Med Tech.

Now when I joined, (lo those many years ago) I was the "victim" of advertising copy and my own appetites.  When I was reviewing the booklet describing the trades that were open to me the only section that had a picture of a female (a particularly fetching lass) was for the medical trades.  As I was joining the CF for "sex and travel" the choice was obvious.  In retrospect the opportunities for the latter were greater than the former.


----------



## Future Prodigy

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> ohh, I'll bite FP, why are you _compelled_ to join as a med tech than say an infantry soldier?



this is not for my responses like i said above. You have misread my intentions and post. I am curious as to why others chose this branch.


----------



## armyvern

I have locked this topic up.

For obvious reasons, I will reopen shortly.

You each want to insult each other -- take it to PMs.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## armyvern

Unlocked.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## Jarnhamar

Future Prodigy said:
			
		

> this is not for my responses like i said above. You have misread my intentions and post. I am curious as to why others chose this branch.



Have I misread you're intentions? If so I apologize, let me explain why I may have.

Instructors in the military get asked the same questions over and over and see where these questions can lead. They learn how to spot 'difficult' students and leading questions, ones that when asked end up going off topic- classes  go from learning how to strip a rifle to the ROE engagements and someone who knows a guy who saw a soldier shoot a wounded enemy who may or may not have had a grenade under him on youtube. 

No doubt college and university professors deal with this same thing. Students who ask seemingly harmless questions which (as they've seen countless times) lead the class into a debate about something only slightly related to the original question.

Using this post as an example, you may be purely curious about someones choice however;
The manner in which you slipped in choosing Med tech over infantry with a side order of mysterious "_I have my reasons...whats yours_" naturally sends up flags with people whom have seen this type of question before.  

It's easy to see how this type of question can (and likely would have in my posting experience here) lead back to your views from the humanitarian thread.
Almost as if you tried a frontal assault and now you're going for a left flanking   . It's quite easy to see how someone in your shoes (given the nature of your recent posts) would try and connect this seemingly innocent question with your previous statements in order to approach it from a different angle. You may be new to army.ca but believe me, that tactic is a classic here.

That, Jason, is why people may "misread" your intentions. Like the military instructor or university prof, they have "seen it" before.  This is where first impressions really come into play.

Who knows maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## medicineman

Future Prodigy said:
			
		

> I know its been asked before about why you joined the CF in general but I could not find a thread that asked why you joined the medical branch over others. I feel more compelled to join as a med tech than say a infantry solider, but i have my reasons and was wondering what yours were?



I'll circle in at someone else's behest - I originally joined with the intention of not being in the Medical Branch.  I went to the local Armouries with the intention of joining the local Military Police Platoon, but alas, the Medical Company was the only one accepting recruits still at that time.  Then my request to change trades was denied, so I ended up being a Cas Aide.  No biggy.  I went to apply for the Reg Force, again with the intention of not being a medic.  I asked for bird gunner, MP and something else - I think Med A was like 4 out of 3 choices.  But alas, my vision was on the cusp of V3/4, they opted with the 4 and therefore disqualified me for all combat arms trades and the Military Police.  So the recruiter and I literally argued for about an hour and a half - it was like being in a gold souk - I'd done well on aptitude stuff I didn't give a rat's about and he wanted me to go into and I said no, countered with what fit into those parameters but he didn't like and in the end, we came back to Med A.  He told me I had a 2 year waiting list - I said fine, since I was still in the Reserves, and was on a waiting list for nursing school (eeek - can't believe I did that :) and working on getting onto the BC Ambulance Service as an EMA.  Guess who called first.

In the end, it kind of found me and I found I was reasonably good at it.  Why I didn't go for a civvy equivalent, well at the time there weren't any (I think Blackadder mentioned that - we were jacks of all trades and masters of none) and the hoops were easier, cheaper and fewer to get through at the time.  Incidentally, I should mention that I've on occasions actually put in the OT's or started the process for trades both within the Branch and many outside of it, because I was getting fed up with alot of problems at the adult level that were affecting us the children at the working level.  In May of 06, I was at my last straw and was drafting my release memo when mysteriously I got loaded on the PA course I'm in the process of finishing - I say mysteriously because I'd been told in no uncertain terms twice that year I wasn't getting it.  

Don't get me wrong, being a medic in the CF is the best job in the service hands down - but can also be the worst one if you don't have the right mindset and expect it to be all glamour and gallantry.  It's hard work, not only on your body and mind, but sometimes even your soul, since the people you look after are your friends and coworkers - you don't just see them at their best, but you see them at their worst, you see them with their insides on their outsides, you see them as delirious crazy people and sometimes you see them dead - and you are responsible for trying to fix that.  Our civilian "equivalents" don't (often) have to deal with the friends/coworkers part of our job.

If you think you are ready for that sort of thing AND the responsibility that goes with it, by all means, join us, we need people.  If you think you are ready for that sort of thing but not the responsibility that goes with it, join the infantry or other combat arms, because they need people too.

Cheers.

MM


----------



## Future Prodigy

MM - thanks for the reply. Because of my verbal warning i can no longer modify posts, and what i was meaning to say by equivalent is - why did you chose med tech over civil paramedic.


----------



## Gunner98

FP,

When I attended WLU, we were taught to think before we wrote or in this case typed.  Responding to your query is like trying to hit a moving target.  Why don't you think for a while and then decide what it is that you want to discuss?  You have shared little of your thoughts but are demanding of others.

To remind you - your opening post in this thread stated: "I feel more compelled to join as a med tech than say a infantry solider, but i have my reasons and was wondering what yours were?"


----------



## Future Prodigy

Yes, but in WLU they don't nit pick your every word either. If the consensus of the thread is why did 'you' chose this branch, you would get a answer along those lines. I have not given my reasons yet because it seems everytime I do so it starts an argument. I truly want to know others reasons for joining. I have spent hours reading old threads about why people joined the CF in general but never any responses about the med branch in particular. I have PM'ed flawed design my personal reason and if it does not start controversy with him then i will post it here. 

And I do not have the option of editing my posts anymore, like you just did now. IF i did i would remove that part, because i do want others opinions not to start a debate concerning my own views!


----------



## Gunner98

FP, In the hours you spent reading you should have read this Topic: Cannot Modify Posts
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/53191.0.html

A consensus requires more than one person.  Why do you need Flaw's permission to state your own opinion? ???


----------



## Jarnhamar

Thanks for the post FP.  I think you're starting to catch on  

Most people I would think can safely guess at the reason you will give for wanting to become a medic over an infantry soldier.(I'll let you go into details)
 It's just that as I explained, it can easily be a prelude to a loaded philosophical debate (given your recent thread) as it can be pure curiosity on your part. There is nothing wrong with those debates so long as the poster is upfront about the topic and doesn't sneak in a back door if you know what I mean. 

I'm getting out of my lanes with medic discussion so I'll abandon ship after this. Something to consider as I pointed out in the PM (And medics correct me if I'm in the wrong)  you won't see days of Medics refusing to carry a weapon a la "Tour of Duty" Tv series. A medic may or may not be comfortable with 'taking' a life however the very first step in first aid in the military is to shoot the person who is trying to kill you. Medics will use lethal force to protect the patients they are trying to save and also protect their own life.  
You may prefer being a medic over an infantry soldier but keep in mind as a medic you run a very big chance of being on patrol WITH the infantry guys outside the wire-you're a soldier first.

Cheers


----------



## Jarnhamar

Frostnipped Elf said:
			
		

> A consensus requires more than one person.  Why do you need Flaw's permission to state your own opinion? ???


He doesn't.
I think he was just worried that his answer may have come out wrong (given he feels the tone of his thread came out wrong) so he was double checking.


----------



## Gunner98

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Thanks for the post FP.  I think you're starting to catch on
> A medic may or may not be comfortable with 'taking' a life however the very first step in first aid in the military is to shoot the person who is trying to kill you. Medics will use lethal force to protect the patients they are trying to save and also protect their own life.
> You may prefer being a medic over an infantry soldier but keep in mind as a medic you run a very big chance of being on patrol WITH the infantry guys outside the wire-you're a soldier first.
> Cheers



FD,

A good start.  A Med Tech must be prepared to take a life in defence of themselves, their patients and others, when required.  The first step in Combat Casualty Care is finishing the firefight and making the area safe to provide care (not in 'First Aid' per se).  Taking a turn as air sentry or manning the C6 Machine Gun must be in your comfort zone, as well.  Forget the "very big chance" - you will be trained accordingly and be expected to keep up with those patrolling outside the wire.


----------



## medaid

What FNE said. MedTechs' primary concern is the safety of their patients and themselves. That's why we have to take SQ to be familiar with the types of small arms employed by our Cbt Arms brethren, and be proficient in their TOETs so that if need be we may either secure the weapon or employ it in our own defence. 

Future_Prodigy, read about 12 (Vancouver) Field Ambulance's history. We were the first and only medical unit to ever actively engage the enemy in combat in order to defend ourselves and our patients and aid station during WWII. The brave medics and stretcher bearers not only kept themselves and their patients intact from enemy advances, but won and later captured the enemy unit that attacked the aid station. 

That was during the time when none of the medics carried weapons, and heck they weren't even trained on how to operate some of the things that their Cbt Arms brethren were using at the time. However, through ability to adapt and overcome they used captured enemy weapons and our own weapons to engage and ultimately winning the battle.


----------



## medicineman

Future Prodigy said:
			
		

> MM - thanks for the reply. Because of my verbal warning i can no longer modify posts, and what i was meaning to say by equivalent is - why did you chose med tech over civil paramedic.



Sorry - must have missed or glossed over it, so to summarize:

1)  They called back first.

2)  Lots of options that opened up after training.

3)  Get to travel to interesting places and work there.

4)  Carry a gun while doing all the above.

All the above are why - though 4 is true, you get to carry while working (in some areas anyway), that wasn't a reason I chose it ie - a joke.

MM


----------



## Armymedic

First,
there is no civilain equivelent to what we military medics do as a complete job decription throughout the CF. Paramedicine is just one small basic block of our entire knowledge base and work experience.

To answer your question more directly. I have never wanted to be a civilian "medic" (paramedic). I have done ride alongs and did not enjoy being a bus to the hospital for homeless, drunks and druggies.

I became a medic after serving 8 years as an armoured soldier because I found first aid and health care interesting and challenging, plus it kept me close to the guys in the cbt arms I really enjoyed woking with. And it helped I did all my sciences in HS so that I easily qualified for the trade.


----------



## Goose

hey guys- i;m looking for some information about med-tech. I've searched high and low- and the information available is almost overwhelming, so I was wondering if- seeing as how my question is directly related- someone could throw me a quick opinion on what my odds are of working with combat arms. I have always wanted to be a medic, and now that I'm just about done the bachelors it's time for a choice. I don't really know who'se opinion to put weight into on the forum... some people say that they are busy doing medical=stuff right out of the gate, others are telling me that they do nothing but fixing trucks and can't wait to get out of the trade. I'm not looking forward to that, so if I know that I'll be strictly maintaining vehicles or what-have-you (I am not opposed to paperwork though- as long as it's a healthy balance), I might just stay clear of the trade to begin with. I want to be able to take the 'cool' courses too- i know how childish this sounds, but hey- it's true. Infantry stuff, with the medical job... is this possible? I mean, if guys are jumping to a drop zone, they'll need a medic trained to do that too right? thanks for any help- i really appreciate it all.   8)


----------



## George Wallace

Goose

You really don't have two clues what you want to be do you? Eight posts and all the same theme.  All claiming you haven't found anything that would answer what your questions may be.  

Perhaps, you should go on Listening Silence for a while and so some Research here on the site and get a feel for what is being posted.  Perhaps something will jump out at you, and hit you between the lookers, and then you'll know what your calling may be. 

I hope that doesn't hit your sensibilities too hard, but you really are giving us the impression that you are adrift in life, without a calling.


----------



## Goose

I actually laughed- you are completely right... But I do have a calling, the CF. Actually, I have already applied and have been accepted as a med-tech for Jan 08- didn't go because I wanted to finish the undergrad (which I just have) and in that few months I did some more digging, and now I'm unsure- Medic or combat arms officer... anyways, i'm sure you know the rest.


----------



## Future Prodigy

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Goose
> 
> You really don't have two clues what you want to be do you? Eight posts and all the same theme.  All claiming you haven't found anything that would answer what your questions may be.
> 
> Perhaps, you should go on Listening Silence for a while and so some Research here on the site and get a feel for what is being posted.  Perhaps something will jump out at you, and hit you between the lookers, and then you'll know what your calling may be.
> 
> I hope that doesn't hit your sensibilities too hard, but you really are giving us the impression that you are adrift in life, without a calling.



Wallace - see this is where we diverge on opinion... what is wrong with not knowing your calling or going adrift in life? They say that the typical person of generation Y will have up to 4 different career jobs  in their lifetime. This notion that we must 'know' what it is we want when we graduate at 21-24, is outdated. Most 21 year olds are still chasing girls and getting drunk every other day, let alone know enough about 'life' to know their calling. That’s my opinion though. I say ask away Goose, knowledge is power... don't sign up for something unless your positive - I'm actually curious about the answers to your questions as well.

*edited for spelling*


----------



## armyvern

Future Prodigy said:
			
		

> Wallace - see this is where we diverge on opinion... what is wrong with not knowing your calling or going adrift in life? They say that the typical person of generation Y will have up to 4 different career jobs  in their lifetime. This notion that we must 'know' what it is we want when we graduate at 21-24, is outdated. Most 21 year olds are still chasing girls and getting drunk every other day, let alone know enough about 'life' to know their calling. That’s my opinion though. I say ask away Goose, knowledge is power... don't sign up for something unless your positive - I'm actually curious about the answers to your questions as well.
> 
> *edited for spelling*



If that's the case, then a lot of 21-24 year olds still have quite a lot of growing up to do ...

Mom & Dad still expected to pay your way (and your taxes) at this age? Nope ... you're supposed to be working (or in school) earning a living by then. It may not be "your calling", but you're supposed to be doing that --- ergo the 3 or 4 different jobs in your lifetime. 

Even us old folks can say we've done a couple of jobs in our lifetime. Most of us probably had jobs before we joined the CF, this is nothing new in life.


----------



## Yrys

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Mom & Dad still expected to pay your way (and your taxes) at this age? Nope ... you're supposed to be working (or in school) earning a living by then.



I *think* that parents are legally responsible all their life to be sure that their child is able to eat. There were a case a few years ago where
grandparents had to pay for the grandchild (major) education. A friend of mine had monetary problem when she reached university. It was
too far from home,  she moved to the dormitory over there. The financial aid agency for student considered that her father was making enough 
money to support her alone (a doctor) , but her father wasn't helping her that much. Their counsel : "you have to pursue him in a law court ".
Nice family reunion if she would have done it ...

But effectively, at this age, whether you have found your calling or not, in my opinion, you have to be active : school or job.


----------



## armyvern

Yrys said:
			
		

> I *think* that parents are legally responsible all their life to be sure that their child is able to eat. There were a case a few years ago where
> grandparents had to pay for the grandchild (major) education. A friend of mine had monetary problem when she reached university. It was
> too far from home,  she moved to the dormitory over there. The financial aid agency for student considered that her father was making enough
> money to support her alone (a doctor) , but her father wasn't helping her that much. Their counsel : "you have to pursue him in a law court ".
> Nice family reunion if she would have done it ...
> 
> But effectively, at this age, whether you have found your calling or not, in my opinion, you have to be active : school or job.



Under certain circumstances and conditions ... sure.

But, if you think for one second that you'd be held financially responsible as a parent to support a 21-24 year old so that they can be out "still chasing girls and getting drunk every other day" ... I don't think there's a court in the land that would deem that correct.

But yeah, I must agree with Future_Prodigy's opinion that "Most 21 year olds are still chasing girls and getting drunk every other day, let alone know enough about 'life' to know their calling." Interestingly, I'd add "and expect everything to be handed to them without having to earn any of it." And bitch and complain when it isn't ... by us "outdated" people, of course.


----------



## ballz

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> If that's the case, then a lot of 21-24 year olds still have quite a lot of growing up to do ...
> 
> Mom & Dad still expected to pay your way (and your taxes) at this age? Nope ... you're supposed to be working (or in school) earning a living by then. It may not be "your calling", but you're supposed to be doing that --- ergo the 3 or 4 different jobs in your lifetime.



As a soon-to-be 19 year old I don't disagree that by 21-24 you should have some direction in your life; I have enough colleagues from high school that make me wonder how long it's going to take them to gain some direction. I wouldn't be able to show my face in public if I was 24 years old living in my parents basement delivering pizzas for some cash to booze on the weekends with my friends who have all done this thing called growing up.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> Goose
> 
> You really don't have two clues what you want to be do you? Eight posts and all the same theme.  All claiming you haven't found anything that would answer what your questions may be.
> 
> Perhaps, you should go on Listening Silence for a while and so some Research here on the site and get a feel for what is being posted.  Perhaps something will jump out at you, and hit you between the lookers, and then you'll know what your calling may be.
> 
> I hope that doesn't hit your sensibilities too hard, but you really are giving us the impression that you are adrift in life, without a calling.



But holy f**k, the guy's just finishing up his bachelors and your rediculing him for being "adrift in life" and without a "calling?" He's exploring job opportunities now that he'll soon be at an education level he's deemed sufficient for himself, what else does he need to do to escape your high and mighty opinion of what everyone and everybody should do and should have done? I can see why you might hop on somebody for butchering the english language, even while suggesting that because of their habits they will never amount to anything in the CF, but this is just redonkulous.

Now of course, fire away and tell me I'll be a horrible officer. I agree with you that I'm headed for a good psychological slap in BMOQ.


----------



## George Wallace

ballz

Did you bother to go to his/her profile and have a look at what they have posted.  Numerous topics; all the same and totally deserving of a wack off the side of their head.


----------



## ballz

why did an entire page get deleted?


----------



## Yrys

ballz said:
			
		

> why did an entire page get deleted?



No deletion, just split .

Some (not me) would say derailed  !


2nd highly successful highjack in 24 hours perpetrated by YRYS

I almost post the wrong thread  :-[ !


----------



## lone bugler

Well to get the topic back on track, I wanted to be a Med tech cause

1. You still work closely with the infantry and In the field
2. War is a terrible thing so I find it a lot more worthwhile to save lifes than take them
3. Didn't want to be a civi paramedic because I believe University was more right for me rather than collage


----------



## JABAC

I was originally looking into paramedics when the military thing came up... so there was no doubt that I would be involved in the military in the medical aspect.  As for joining the army, so many things appealed to me about it.  The lifestyle and benefits, the focus on fitness, travel opportunities, and in a large way, the team aspect...how (when everything/everyone is working properly) the CF moves like a well-oiled machine...people do their jobs, obey orders, and give their best.  Not many companies or groups actually work like that.  It's amazing to see and exciting to become a part of.  I really wanted to work with a well-trained group of medical people and help my fellow soldiers in a very real way.


----------



## Starlight31

JABAC said:
			
		

> I was originally looking into paramedics when the military thing came up... so there was no doubt that I would be involved in the military in the medical aspect.  As for joining the army, so many things appealed to me about it.  The lifestyle and benefits, the focus on fitness, travel opportunities, and in a large way, the team aspect...how (when everything/everyone is working properly) the CF moves like a well-oiled machine...people do their jobs, obey orders, and give their best.  Not many companies or groups actually work like that.  It's amazing to see and exciting to become a part of.  I really wanted to work with a well-trained group of medical people and help my fellow soldiers in a very real way.



Where do you work?? lol...  I think many units are in real need of an oil change!!

Medical trade is the greatest... IMHO,  I think every Medic should strive to be a Combat Medic, as that is the ultimate reward.  To live, fight, sleep, and sometimes die beside the people we all support in the military... The 031 grunt!!! What is so cool, is that 031 grunt (if you do your job well) will do everything to make your life ok!!! I loved being a Combat Medic.. Even at its lowest points.  As the biggest honour was to be called Doc!  Our trade is what you put into it!! Crap in... Crap out... Gold in.... Gold out!!!  Attitude is everything....


----------



## JABAC

Starlight31 said:
			
		

> Where do you work?? lol...  I think many units are in real need of an oil change!!



Haha, I know I probably have an inaccurate idea since I have not yet experienced it, but that is what I hope for and what I will strive for.  I will give my best because that's what I want the team I am a part of to be.  A team is only as strong as it's weakest member and I hope to be there to support and help the team as best I can.



			
				Starlight31 said:
			
		

> I think every Medic should strive to be a Combat Medic, as that is the ultimate reward.  To live, fight, sleep, and sometimes die beside the people we all support in the military...



That's what I'll be doing! (if all goes according to plan...)  When I've told people that I'm joining the military as a med tech, a common response is "what if you go overseas or have to go to war?"  I reply, "well that's what I'll be training for, that's why I'm joining".  Again, my view is obviously biased since I am looking at my career from a civvy point of view, but I have also tried to be very realistic about it, knowing that it will be very hard and that I'll have to face things I can't even imagine at this point.  But it's all a part of the training process of making a civvy into a soldier.  I can't wait.


----------



## MedTechStudent

Two big reasons, neither of which I feel uncomfortable disclosing.

1.
Family, my mom was a nurse and the way she talked about her job on top of my own interests in medicine was a big push.

2. 
Guilt (or maybe just remembrance) , when I was 14 my cousin drowned while I was visiting her in England.  It was truly one of those "if only I'd..." situations.  After that I decided that I wanted to have a job helping or saving people, not just standing by doing nothing. 

ps.  I guess a third general reason would be this... the CF provides you with unbeatable training, opportunities, and benefits not found in any other job, on top of that they will pay you to go to school and all they ask in return is three years, sounds pretty fair


----------



## EDS334

Haven't completed my QL3's yet, but...

Why "Medical" vs. ___?  

I like helping people.  I'm not afraid of a little (or a lot) of fluids, or needles.  I like working outdoors, in the rain or shine.  I love challenges of all sorts.  I love the concept of medicine; learning how to fix people as effectively as possible.  I like critical problem solving.  I was once a lifeguard, loved the job, wanted to take it farther, looked at the civvy and military occupations, and well... here I am.  Awaiting training at CFB Borden.  ;D

ps.  After firing the first round w/my C7A2, I learned to love shooting.   >


----------



## MedTechStudent

EDS334 said:
			
		

> ps.  After firing the first round w/my C7A2, I learned to love shooting.   >



_Everyone_ loves shooting, you just don't know it till you've done it.  Like when my dad let my try his Tikka 7mm Remington Magnum for the first time. 
 Ooooooo happy day.  ;D  Moose hunting rifles pack a punch.


----------



## Armymedic

Medic tng is 75% skills, and 25% knowledge based. Basically you are given enough knowledge to decide which skill is best done when.

The more advanced you go, the more the ratio reverses. As in Ptes are expect to do stuff, PA's are expected to know stuff.


----------



## MedTechStudent

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Medic tng is 75% skills, and 25% knowledge based. Basically you are given enough lnowledge to decide which skill is best done when.



I'm glad to here that.

Cheers, Kyle


----------



## medicineman

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Medic tng is 75% skills, and 25% knowledge based. Basically you are given enough knowledge to decide which skill is best done when.
> 
> The more advanced you go, the more the ratio reverses. As in Ptes are expect to do stuff, PA's are expected to know stuff.



You're also expected as a PA to be able to pass on what you know and can do - amazing how many people fail to remember that or just plain fail to do it.  You do get to do stuff as a PA as well, BTW, some of it kinda cool  ;D.

MM

MM


----------



## Future Prodigy

someone mentioned earlier an interesting thought... can med-techs receive the same type of specialty training (for a lack of a better term - basically jump course, dive course, etc) as the infantry. Or is this type of stuff left for sar-techs? Is there a military equivalent like in the USA?

Multi-point question I know, sorry about that.


----------



## aesop081

Airborne troops need medics too.........


----------



## Eye In The Sky

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Airborne troops need medics too.........



Maybe one of the PAs on here can confirm but I believe there is specialty trng avail for Med Techs on the dive side, as I know there is a PA at FDU (A) and would assume he/she has some dive qual due the nature of dive ops/medicine.


----------



## Future Prodigy

I was wondering what the typical (i say typical, solely because there are obvious exceptions) career progression for a med-tech was? I remember reading on here that various fields promote slower/faster than others - one that comes to mind is the artillery officer. 

*Brain Fart* As a extension of the above question... is the QL progression really as slow as the members on here make it seem? I am interested in the field of EMS (always have been drawn to the 9-1-1 and EMS related fields) but after reading many threads on here i have become a bit weary. One such example: No med-tech is allowed on a foreign tour of duty, in the capacity of being a medic, until they are QL 5. The problem is some say this can take 6-7 years to get, which is a extremely long time to wait till you get to utilize your training in a tour of duty. I remember reading along the lines of one has to serve for 3 yrs past your QL 3 then you are placed on your 10 week QL 5?

To quote, a disgruntled member here (concerning the down sides of the med tech profession): "I think one of the major downs is doing your time as a QL3 in the cage (Fd Amb) and waiting to get on your QL5 course.  After just under 3 years as a medic (not including time for basic and my medical training in Borden) I was still not slated for mine.  When you start out (most likely in a Fd Amb) there is a whole lot of vehicle maintenance and slinging canvas.  This was of course during my period (2000-2003) and I can't state truefully what things are like now.  My only saving grace while in the cage was the field exercises.  It is in the field that you get a good chance to challenge yourself and put your skills to use.   

The amount of pain that you endure is totally up to you.  If you work hard and keep on your studies (and have a little luck on your side) you will be presented with more appealing opportunities.  After your time in the cage you could get lucky enough to be moved to an ambulance company (AMB COY) were you will have ample opportunities for taskings.  You get paired with a QL5 and finally get to do what you were trained to do.  You can also be placed in a BMS (clinic) to further your skills. 

Eventually you will be sent on your QL5 course and come back fully deployable.  My advice to you is to have patience and work hard and you will eventually get what you want."


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## Future Prodigy

Prairie Dog said:
			
		

> If you are joining just to be a paramedic....Don't.
> 
> We do far more then that.  If you come to Fd Amb in Petawawa, you'll be too busy to take the courses.



I keep reading this over and over again but I still can not figure out what it means. Could you elaborate?


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## medicineman

Medics can do Airevac and  Med Supply (if it's still available) as medic specialist courses - you can also do Basic Para (and other advanced parachutist training as well), Ship's Diver, Mountain Ops/Instructor, Rappel Master, that sort of stuff (if in the right place at right time and or brown nosing the right person  :).  They used to be able to do Basic Dive Medicine, but getting people on it below the rank of Sgt is like pulling hens' teeth (even Sgt's now, due to the cheesy 2 week 6A course).  PA's can do Basic and (I believe) Advanced Dive Medicine and Basic Aviation Medicine (mini-Flight Surgeon), as well as the above.

I'm sure I might have missed some, but you get the idea.

MM


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## PMedMoe

medicineman said:
			
		

> even Sgt's now, due to the cheesy 2 week 6A course



Didn't that change yet?  IIRC, the new one is going to be 2-3 months.


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## PMedMoe

Future Prodigy said:
			
		

> I keep reading this over and over again but I still can not figure out what it means. Could you elaborate?



While I won't claim to speak for Prairie Dog, I *believe* he meant that at the Fd Amb you are far too busy to take *civilian* courses, if you joined the military just to get a boost your paramedic qualification.  Read the post just above the one you quoted and you'll get the context of what he meant.

I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Future Prodigy

you're probably right. I tend to view multiple threads and can mix up things. Either way, it has been mentioned numerous times, in the context of comparing civie paramedics with military med-techs, that they are so different and can not be compaired. Yet, no one seems to have elaborated on this. I read an entire thread about it, but not much was flushed out.


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## Civvymedic

I guess Im doing things backwards  Ive been a Paramedic for 10 years, done alot and realize theres more to do in the CF...If only my PLAR could be worked out....well see.


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## Future Prodigy

Prairie Dog said:
			
		

> Yes it is possible.
> 
> AFIK, Loyalist in Bancroft does not accept the JIBC programs, so you have to do the majority of their part time program.
> 
> You need 400 hrs ridealong, plus clinical rotations plus doing the exams. It is allot of time and money when you do not have a whole bunch of either. We just don't get the volume of calls the make it worthwhile, and there is not a whole bunch of spots avail here either.
> 
> I only know of one person who has done that here in Pet, and it took her 4 yrs to complete the partial course she needed to complete. We are just too busy here to do that.



Prairie Dog - could you explain this comment to a ignorant outsider. I am confused, for you say you do get the amount of calls needed for certification but yet you are always busy. I am discerning joining as a med tech but I continually read this sort of rhetoric and do not know what it means. What sort of other work are you busy doing, if not medic calls (yes, i am that clueless).


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## Armymedic

could you be an ignorant outsider with a quote more recent? I am not sure if that statement is current anymore as  many things have changed in the last 2-3 yrs.


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## Pea

I'm on a current PCP program at the JI in BC, so I'll share what little info I have.

Upon completion of the PCP program, it is now mandatory for us to take the licensing examination in BC. (the military is paying the licensing fee) When you pass these exams, you are now a licensed PCP in B.C. Our program coordinator has been looking into how this PCP license transfers to other provinces. She's in contact with the various licensing organizations in the other provinces. From what she has told us, the JI's PCP program is becoming very widely recognized across Canada, especially once you've obtained your license in B.C. It still varies by province what demands must be made to obtain one's license, however she has said that it's looking really good for it to be a straight transfer throughout most of the provinces, in the near future. As of when she last spoke to us, she said that the B.C. license pretty much straight transfers over to an Alberta license without much work needed. (you have to pay the licensing fee of course) As for Ontario, she has said that we need to do the licensing practical exams, but that the written exams & 400 on-car hours will be waived if you have the B.C. license. (I am not sure if it is at this point yet, but she said if it isn't, it will be there soon) I am not sure where the licensing transition stands in the other provinces, as she was still looking into this for us. (AB & ON were the main ones we were asking about)

Please do not take any of the above as gospel, as it is only what we have been told, and I haven't verified it personally.  However, I do believe that the Civilian recognition of Med Tech training is definitely approving, especially since we are now obtaining PCP licenses in B.C. (I don't know anything about the Franco program in Montreal, or where it stands licensing wise)

Feel free to ask any questions you have about any of the QL3 training, as it is all pretty fresh in my mind.


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## Future Prodigy

Prairie Dog said:
			
		

> could you be an ignorant outsider with a quote more recent? I am not sure if that statement is current anymore as  many things have changed in the last 2-3 yrs.



I tend to lurk in the crypts quite a bit. However, it does seem repeated over and over again that those who are in the military side of things are constantly busy but not necessarily with calls. So, I am curious as to what this is... I have heard grumbling about warehouse work, and what not, is this the type of work you mean? Basically, I am making a comparison chart between the civie and military side but I am having a hard time finding information - It's the impression from my readings that military med-techs get less actual field time than their civie counterparts on the streets, is this so? I keep reading comment's like you need to be able to put up with the BS, in relation to waiting for QL courses, and the monotony of warehouse work in order to survive the trade.


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## Armymedic

Future Prodigy said:
			
		

> Basically, I am making a comparison chart between the civie and military side but I am having a hard time finding information


I have said it before and I will say it again:

There is no real comparison between what civilian paramedics do and what military medics do. There is a reason why we send our very jr medics to learn prehospital care. That is because it is the basics of trained medical care. Its protocol based, and mostly what to before and during moving the patient to someone else who knows what to do for them. Every medic has to have a base in emergency prehospital medicine because, in addition to everything else we need to know, because it is every medic needs to take care of the ABC, regardless of the element, enviroment or setting.

Further, you are fully employable as a Med Tech until you are complete your QL 5 course. 

Being a Med Tech in the military is SO much more than running around in an amb.


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## ModlrMike

Allow me to answer some of your questions, and perhaps clear up some misconceptions.

Progression in the MedTech trade is similar to all other CSS trades. QL3, then QL5 at/before 4 yrs service, QL6A at about 7-8 years service, PA trg at about 10-12 years service. I can absoluty refute the notion that QL3 MedTechs don't go on tour. I have several of them over here now, and they're doing great work. Garrison life is no comparison to field life, and any routine can become boring and life draining.

Progression comes down to one word: excellence. Excellence in you medical skills, your military skills, and your leadership potential. Some move faster than others, some don't.


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## Pea

Another point to add is about the above quote saying it takes 6-7 years to get one's QL5 qualification. You need to realize that a lot of the info you are reading is outdated. Some of the info you are reading is from 2004-2006. You don't things have changed in 3+ years?

This past winter when I was in Borden on my Clinical QL3's, there were two QL5 courses at the school as well. MANY of these members were "hooked" privates (approx 3 yrs in), as well as a fair amount of "no-hook" privates (less than 3 yrs in). (and of course a variety of Cpl's as well) A fair amount of them had only done their QL3's 18-24 months previous. That right there tells me that the "wait time" is nothing like it was before.

Our Career manager met with us just a few months ago, and he also stated that most of us will be back for our QL5's within a 2 yr time frame. Of course none of that is a guarantee, but it does tell you that things are changing/have changed.


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## Future Prodigy

Prairie Dog said:
			
		

> Being a Med Tech in the military is SO much more than running around in an amb.



This is what i was hoping someone would dive into, and explain more fully.


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## medicineman

Future Prodigy said:
			
		

> This is what i was hoping someone would dive into, and explain more fully.



What he's trying to say is that you aren't doing gazillions of ambulance calls unless you're in an operational setting that requires it, on a base that regularly handles ambulance calls or on maintenance of competency.  In a clinic or field ambulance or UMS, you do primary care stuff (sick parade), maintenance of equipment, other sundry activities such as looking after your vehicles, field equipment, radios, weapons (if you're in such a unit), refresher environmental training, being on course for some such thing somewhere out of area, etc, etc, ad nauseum.  It's not all running around scooping up the sick and broken - quite the opposite unless you're in a scary place.

Hope that helps.

MM


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## medicineman

Last I heard they were looking at it - have yet to see it though.

Don't care - just finished my orals yesterday and passed.  CAPA on Monday.  Grad Tuesday.

MM


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## Nfld Sapper

medicineman said:
			
		

> Last I heard they were looking at it - have yet to see it though.
> 
> Don't care - just finished my orals yesterday and passed.  CAPA on Monday.  *Grad Tuesday*.
> 
> MM



And intoxicated shortly there after  ;D


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## medicineman

Better than even odds - mess dinner that night.

MM


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## PMedMoe

medicineman said:
			
		

> Last I heard they were looking at it - have yet to see it though.
> 
> Don't care - just finished my orals yesterday and passed.  CAPA on Monday.  Grad Tuesday.
> 
> MM



Congrats!!!


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## medicineman

Found out I'm getting my CD1 on parade - surprised me when they said I was getting a medal.  Thought "WOOHOOO - my Haiti gong finally!!", but alas, another 10 years undetected crime.  Timereally flies when you're nearing the end of things eh?

MM


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## Inspir

I was wondering if any reg force medics with accredited (meaning you can work for the provincial ambulance system) PCP or ACP work casual for an EMS system to keep up/hone there pre-hospital care skills?


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## medicineman

I know/knew several that used to - Ontario, New Brunswick and some in Alberta.  Just have to make sure you know your schedule at your real job and that they're aware you're doing it.  Oh yeah, some have to do it as part of their maintenance of skills and competency.

MM


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## warren_t

I am just in the process of going through the hoops to get into CF Regular Forces as a Med Tech. I am currently a RN (for 15 years).  The reason I am choosing the CF is because of challenge, opportunity and the organization. The reason I am choosing the CF Med Tech is because I believe I will be given exposure to extreme circumstances I couldn't even dream of otherwise, the education will roll with the experience and I also believe I can proudly be a Professional Soldier at the same time.  
Thank you for this site as it continues to answer questions that come up.


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## HCA

"given exposure to extreme circumstances"  This is also available to Nurses in the CF.  (As extreme as inside the wire in Afghanistan can be classified)  Those that have returned speak very highly of the experience they have undergone.  Consider both options I would suggest.


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## Gunner98

warren_t said:
			
		

> I am just in the process of going through the hoops to get into CF Regular Forces as a Med Tech. I am currently a RN (for 15 years).  The reason I am choosing the CF is because of challenge, opportunity and the organization. The reason I am choosing the CF Med Tech is because I believe I will be given exposure to extreme circumstances I couldn't even dream of otherwise, the education will roll with the experience and I also believe I can proudly be a Professional Soldier at the same time.
> Thank you for this site as it continues to answer questions that come up.



If you have been an RN for 15 years I think you might find the Med Tech route rather frustrating as to the limit to the scope of practice you will be able to perform during your first few years of service.  RNs and NPs have been satsified with their exposure to extreme circumstances such as Disaster relief in Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Honduras.  As for a challenge try becoming a critical care nurse and deploy to the Role 3 hospital in Kandahar.


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## kincanucks

He may be a RN but does he have a Nursing Degree?


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## warren_t

I wish to end my healthcare career as a Paramedic. The path from Medical Technician to a Flight Paramedic is challenging. ?Physician's Assistant. The Profession of Arms is equally important to me. 
My entry to practice Nursing was in fact a diploma. Prior to becoming a RN, I was a LPN. Prior to this I studied Physical and Health Education and Respiratory Technology.  
Thank you for your input.


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## Armymedic

warren_t said:
			
		

> I wish to end my healthcare career as a Paramedic. The path from Medical Technician to a Flight Paramedic is challenging. ?Physician's Assistant. The Profession of Arms is equally important to me.


I am confused as to what you are saying here.

If you want to be a paramedic, stay out of the regular force. If you want to be a a flight parmedic, thats a specialty subtrade withing Med Tech, one where only few lucky and skilled do while emplyed in places like Afghanistan. Finally, PAs while clinicians are still WOs and intimately involved in thier shipboard or army duties.


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## Gunner98

The flight paramedic line of work in Afghanistan is limited to strategic evacuation out of KAF or Bagram. The thrill of the combat MedEvac is a rare blip on the Afghan radar until we get some rotary platforms of our own.


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## gshim12

hello
i am currently a biomedical science student, first year student in a Canadian university.
i have always wanted to join the forces and become a medic.  i am planning to apply for ROTP this year, however there are few questions that are needed to be answered before i hand in my paperwork.

1. would i be pulled out during my school days? if yes for how long. i know that there is a training during the summer.
2. i know that for ROTP you have to serve 5 yrs upon graduation, but what if i want to go to med school?
3. what other choices do i have with my science degree?
4. also, is there a spot reserved in med school for those is ROTP?

thank you


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## Pea

I can't offer all the answers you are looking for but I can tell you that Medic is an NCM trade, not an officer trade. Therefore you do not require a degree and you would not be joining under ROTP if you wanted to be a Medic. If you want to go officer you can look at being a Nurse, doctor, etc as those require the relevant degrees.


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## Armymedic

I think he wants to come in as a Reserve F mbr.


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## HItorMiss

Now why would anyone want to do that?


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## medaid

Gshim12 do a SEARCH! You did NOT do a search because if you did the questions would've been answered already. Over, and over again!


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