# NDP to debate phasing out Canada’s Armed Forces at policy convention



## shawn5o (2 Apr 2021)

Wow! I never trusted the NDP for being responsible but this is off the wall or it's an AprilFools joke









						NDP to debate phasing out Canada’s Armed Forces at policy convention
					

Other policy resolutions to be debated at the convention include a motion to remove all Sir John A Macdonald statues from public spaces, abolishing Canada’s monarchy and pulling Canada out of NATO.




					tnc.news
				




By
 Cosmin Dzsurdzsa
 -
April 1, 2021

The federal NDP are set to debate whether or not to phase out the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) at their upcoming 2021 convention. 

The policy resolution titled “Elimination of the Canadian Armed Forces” was submitted by the party’s Spadina-Fort York Electoral District Association (EDA). 

It claims that “in a world with a globalized economy traditional militaries are becoming increasingly unnecessary” and points to other countries like Costa Rica and Iceland which have allegedly “abolished their armies.” 

More at link above


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## SeaKingTacco (2 Apr 2021)

Ha. The joke is on the NDP, since we have largely self divested any combat capability that we once had....


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## Good2Golf (2 Apr 2021)

The least believable part of that article is that the NDP paid off their campaign debt... 🤣


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## Halifax Tar (2 Apr 2021)




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## SeaKingTacco (2 Apr 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> The least believable part of that article is that the NDP paid off their campaign debt... 🤣


The funniest part is the unintended consequence that this resolution would have if it ever came true. Namely, effectively hand our sovereignty to the USA the NDP loves to hate...


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## RangerRay (2 Apr 2021)

Never heard of “True North Wire”. Sounds dodgy.

Having said that, I wouldn’t put it past them the Dippers to do this.


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## Good2Golf (2 Apr 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> The funniest part is the unintended consequence that this resolution would have if it ever came true. Namely, effectively hand our sovereignty to the USA the NDP loves to hate...


Shhhhhh! I was hoping they wouldn’t notice....


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## OldTanker (2 Apr 2021)

At least they are being up-front about it and not letting it happen by natural attrition.


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## brihard (2 Apr 2021)

Meh, pretty sure Canadians are gonna debate phasing out the NDP in the fall election.


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## mariomike (2 Apr 2021)

RangerRay said:


> Never heard of “True North Wire”. Sounds dodgy.


Another "source" I never heard of on here.


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## brihard (2 Apr 2021)

mariomike said:


> Another "source" I never heard of on here.


Lol, so I looked up the author. He managed to get himself turfed from the Post Millennial for demonstrable ties to blogs that promoted racism, as well as some of his pro-Russia propaganda work. Googling the ‘True North’ outlet seems to suggest that it’s at best someone’s agitprop page. In any case, this is the farthest thing from a credible journalist at a credible outlet. While it’s possible someone in the NDP is in fact trying to push such a policy up the chain for consideration, I won’t take anything posted on that website at face value in its own right. If this exists and gets any traction, credible media will pick it up at some point.


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## PMedMoe (2 Apr 2021)

Yeah, True North is right up there with Rebel News for credibility.

And True North is (supposedly) a charity: The Origins Of True North Canada, Which Its “Founder” Hides


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## Pelorus (2 Apr 2021)

It is legit from what I can tell, in that it's a resolution to be discussed at their convention along with tons of others unlikely to make it into the party's election platform. See p. 43 of this document hosted on their website:









						Canada's NDP
					

We are Canada’s New Democrats. Investing in a Canada where people can realize their full potential and pursue their dreams.




					www.ndp.ca
				




Shame we regularly get right wing propaganda linked here instead of source documents.


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## Weinie (2 Apr 2021)

boot12 said:


> It is legit from what I can tell, in that it's a resolution to be discussed at their convention along with tons of others unlikely to make it into the party's election platform. See p. 43 of this document hosted on their website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And "be it resolved that" with a myopic, agenda-driven motion such as this, the NDP further disassociate themselves from reality. Good luck in the next election.


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## Halifax Tar (2 Apr 2021)

boot12 said:


> It is legit from what I can tell, in that it's a resolution to be discussed at their convention along with tons of others unlikely to make it into the party's election platform. See p. 43 of this document hosted on their website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The irony in your post is that a far left party is being accurately reported on by a far right news outlet... and its true... Not likely to succeed; but true.


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## mariomike (2 Apr 2021)

boot12 said:


> Shame we regularly get right wing propaganda linked here instead of source documents.


Wonder if that's how some people get themselves sucked into things like Qanon?

I guess I'm old fashioned, but I still subscribe to a newspaper. "Fake news" I suppose some would call it these days.


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## Good2Golf (2 Apr 2021)

boot12 said:


> It is legit from what I can tell, in that it's a resolution to be discussed at their convention along with tons of others unlikely to make it into the party's election platform. See p. 43 of this document hosted on their website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably less likelihood than NDP Resolution 04-46-20 passing:

Reincarnation of the Dalai Lama


> The reincarnation of the Dalai Lama is solely decided by those within the Tibetan Buddhist faith community, in accordance with the universally-recognized right to religious freedom, and that the Government of the People’s Republic of China have no part to play in the process.


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## Weinie (2 Apr 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> Probably less likelihood than NDP Resolution 04-46-20 passing:
> 
> Reincarnation of the Dalai Lama


G2G,

Missed that. Just goes to reinforce why I eschew any relationship with most Dippers; they are devoid of any reasoning approaching reality.


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Apr 2021)

I find it ironic that this was submitted by the party’s Spadina-Fort York Electoral District Association (EDA).
How soon they forget.
Who going to dig them out, the next time they get a little snow? 🥶


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## Remius (2 Apr 2021)

Who really cares.  Their plan is fantasy.  Might as well be a dungeons and dragons gaming convention.  Full of elves, dwarves, wizards and fairies.   NDP.  best live action role players in parliament.


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## Haggis (2 Apr 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> The least believable part of that article is that the NDP paid off their campaign debt... 🤣


That's the only thing keeping us from having a successful no confidence vote.  Once they are solvent enough to mount a campaign it's "game on"!


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## medic5 (3 Apr 2021)

Here's the NATO-xit resolution, also by the rep out of Spadina-Fort York:

WHEREAS: WHEREAS the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), and Canadian forces in Afghanistan engaged in propping up a US-puppet government of human rights abusers, drug traffickers and warlords, wasting money and lives to further a western agenda of geo-political power and plunder of resources;

Therefore, BE IT RESOLVED THAT the NDP actively campaign to get Canada out of NATO, to get NATO out of Afghanistan, to remove the NATO nuclear ring around Russian borders, and to disengage Canadian forces from any support role for the U.S. and its client regimes around the world.

Clearly geniuses running the show in the NDP.  Let's see which ones actually pass.


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## Good2Golf (3 Apr 2021)

...so “We’re out!” is how we should be?  

A self-centered ‘looking out for ourselves’ is hardly the Canada I want to be a part of.


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## daftandbarmy (3 Apr 2021)

Well, the 'World Socialist Worker' seems to think they're a bunch of war mongers... back in 2019 anyways:

NDP advocates spending tens of billions on Canada’s military​
"While chock full of pseudo-progressive rhetoric about “human rights,” making Canada a “force for peace,” and promoting “gender equality,” the platform champions a pro-war, militarist agenda. It advocates spending tens of billions of dollars on equipping Canada’s military with new battleships, fighter jets and other high-tech weaponry, paving the way to turn workers and young people into cannon fodder for Canadian imperialism in foreign wars and future great-power conflicts."





__





						NDP advocates spending tens of billions on Canada’s military
					

Canada’s social democrats are full-throated supporters of the Trudeau Liberal government’s plans to buy new fleets of warships and fighter jets.



					www.wsws.org


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

RangerRay said:


> Never heard of “True North Wire”. Sounds dodgy.
> 
> Having said that, I wouldn’t put it past them the Dippers to do this.



No, it's not dodgy. It's a conservative site and it publishes conservative views. Check it out


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

mariomike said:


> Another "source" I never heard of on here.


Hi MM
As I mentioned to Ranger Ray, N"o, it's not dodgy. It's a conservative site and it publishes conservative views. Check it out"


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

brihard said:


> Lol, so I looked up the author. He managed to get himself turfed from the Post Millennial for demonstrable ties to blogs that promoted racism, as well as some of his pro-Russia propaganda work. Googling the ‘True North’ outlet seems to suggest that it’s at best someone’s agitprop page. In any case, this is the farthest thing from a credible journalist at a credible outlet. While it’s possible someone in the NDP is in fact trying to push such a policy up the chain for consideration, I won’t take anything posted on that website at face value in its own right. If this exists and gets any traction, credible media will pick it up at some point.



Yeah, national observer is a "progressive" outlet, promotes man made climate change and liberal oriented.

Anyway, the site Freebirdmedia is claimed racist by Sothern poverty law centre and from the Canadian side "Barbara Perry, director of the Centre on Hate, Bias and Extremism at Ontario Tech University."

Nah, I'll stick with True North - it is more respectable than National Observer


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## PMedMoe (3 Apr 2021)

shawn5o said:


> Nah, I'll stick with True North - it is more respectable than National Observer


Of course you will. Because their "news" agrees with your viewpoint.


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

True north is not a "propaganda piece".  Now the Toronto Star is a left leaning site and some of their publishing raises eyebrows.


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

PMedMoe said:


> Of course you will. Because their "news" agrees with your viewpoint.



And what news sites do you follow?

As an aside, I am still deeply sorry for insulting you in the past


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## PMedMoe (3 Apr 2021)

I get news from a variety of sites. For unbiased news, check sites such as Reuters, BBC, Wall Street Journal, The Associated Press, Forbes, Politico etc.

Souces I avoid like the plague are Brietbart, True North, Rebel Media, The Post Millenial, Epoch Times, etc

Sun newspapers are nothing but tabloids IMO.


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

Oh yeah, about that piece from National Observer - did anyone note inside that article this tidbit

"Post Millennial co-founder Matthew Azrieli didn’t answer specific questions about whether his news outlet supports the views espoused by the Dszurdzsa’s past employers, or how the decision to hire Dzsurdzsa was made. It also didn’t answer questions about Dzsurdzsa’s current beliefs.

Azrieli instead emphasized his Jewish roots and co-founder Ali Taghva’s Iranian heritage, adding that the Post Millennial “celebrates the success of Canada's diversity.”

“I'm not going to be bullied into firing a new father on the basis of claims of guilt by association that are spurious at best and defamatory at worst,” said Azrieli, who didn’t respond when asked to elaborate on what was libellous about _National Observer_’s communications.

“Shame on you for trying.”

and another para attacking Lindsay Sheperd

"(In April, Dzsurdzsa had a baby with his fiancée, Lindsay Shepherd, who is a self-styled 'free-speech activist' who has criticized left-leaning activists for suggesting there's no difference between white nationalists and white supremacists. Shepherd, who also writes columns for the Post Millennial, has expressed concerns about how white people will be treated 'when we are the minority.')"

IMO National observer is nothing more than a propaganda outfit.


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

PMedMoe said:


> I get news from a variety of sites. For unbiased news, check sites such as Reuters, BBC, Wall Street Journal, The Associated Press, Forbes, Politico etc.



I do too but politico is left leaning


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## PMedMoe (3 Apr 2021)

shawn5o said:


> I do too but politico is left leaning


Yeah well, you've already said that you get your news from right leaning sites.  That's no shocker....


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## Haggis (3 Apr 2021)

Like it or not, the policy resolutions mentioned in the article are legit and taken from the    Party's resolutions summary, section 4.  There are many more interesting (and often repetitive) proposals to be found on the main convention website under "Resolutions".


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## FJAG (3 Apr 2021)

The existing NDP policy re National Defence is not that terrible actually. A little too inward focused for my liking, perhaps, but not too bad. You can see it here at pages 14 and 16 and 17.

The current motion at page 43 of their resolutions for the upcoming convention comes from the EDA of the Spadina-Fort York riding. It's been Liberal for the last two federal elections when the NDP support there dropped dramatically. It does have an NDP MPP provincially (an adjunct professor in social sciences at York U). Their last fed candidate was Diana Yoon an MA student at Yorl U and self described Climate Project Specialist - not sure if she still has a voice within the NDP federal EDA for that riding.


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

Lastly, Western Standard is also publishing the news aout NDP and our forces









						NDP to debate getting rid of Canada’s military
					

The motion claims “in a world with a globalized economy traditional militaries are becoming increasingly unnecessary.”




					westernstandardonline.com
				




Author - 
By
 Dave Naylor


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## shawn5o (3 Apr 2021)

PMedMoe said:


> Yeah well, you've already said that you get your news from right leaning sites.  That's no shocker....



touché


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## mariomike (3 Apr 2021)

shawn5o said:


> Now the Toronto Star is a left leaning site and some of their publishing raises eyebrows.


A lot of Canadians read it.



> As of 2015, it was Canada's highest-circulation newspaper in overall weekly circulation: although a close second to _The Globe and Mail_ in daily circulation on weekdays, it overtakes the _Globe_ in weekly circulation because the _Globe_ does not publish a Sunday edition.







__





						List of newspapers in Canada by circulation - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Not to suggest anything wrong with the blogs some people enjoy. Just that I never heard of them.


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## FJAG (3 Apr 2021)

I would consider this motion a tempest in a tea cup but then I was watching as a slim majority of the CPC voted against calling climate change real - so what do I know.


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## Jarnhamar (3 Apr 2021)

Topic devolves to critiquing sources again? 
Classic.


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## Pelorus (3 Apr 2021)

Probably because most of us here come here to have a good faith discussion of the topics at hand, and initiating a conversation with a garbage article from websites which exist to make money off of right wing angst (e.g., Rebel, Epoch, Federalist, Daily Wire, Daily Caller, Red State, NY Post, Town Hall, Brietbart, Newsbusters etc.) means that the rest of us have to start with fact checking almost every line before the conversation can even start.


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## ModlrMike (3 Apr 2021)

The article was factually correct, so not garbage. Your not liking the publisher has no bearing on the veracity of this specific article. That you have only singled out "right wing" sources for your vitriol keenly shows your own bias. There are few angels, but many angles on both sides of the political divide.


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## Good2Golf (3 Apr 2021)

And it directly and accurately quotes material from the NDP policy statements.  Heck, even MSM has a hard time getting a quote right...


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## Pelorus (3 Apr 2021)

The issue is not if this particular article happened to be accurate, but that these websites have such a poor track record of discussing material without intentionally misrepresenting the issue at hand that anyone who isn't willing to accept the reporting at face value has to put in a lot of legwork to see to figure out if a statement is the truth, a half-truth, or a lie.

There are lots of poor quality left wing websites, for sure. See Daily Kos, Mother Jones, Share Blue, World Socialist Web Site, etc. The difference is that none of them get used as sources on this website.


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## ModlrMike (3 Apr 2021)

Maybe, but you said "a garbage article", thereby casting doubt on the validity of the information. If you had only meant to criticize the source you could have done so without classifying the article as "garbage".


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## RedFive (3 Apr 2021)

boot12 said:


> The issue is not if this particular article happened to be accurate, but that these websites have such a poor track record of discussing material without intentionally misrepresenting the issue at hand that anyone who isn't willing to accept the reporting at face value has to put in a lot of legwork to see to figure out if a statement is the truth, a half-truth, or a lie.
> 
> There are lots of poor quality left wing websites, for sure. See Daily Kos, Mother Jones, Share Blue, World Socialist Web Site, etc. The difference is that none of them get used as sources on this website.



You don't have to go that far into the fringes to find intentionally misleading journalism, look at just about any CBC article covering the CAF, policing, or gun control.


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## mariomike (3 Apr 2021)

Maybe some Canadians no longer subscribe to newspapers, and prefer to get their information from alternative sources?





						List of newspapers in Canada - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




As far as discussion of "media bias" goes, here's 70 pages of it,
Media Bias [Merged]


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## Jarnhamar (3 Apr 2021)

boot12 said:


> the rest of us have to start with fact checking almost every line before the conversation can even start.


Are you suggesting taking the time to fact check something you're going to spend time debating instead of just accepting whatever is posted as fact is bad?


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## PuckChaser (3 Apr 2021)

This is one of those motions that is a fringe group from the party that will never pass. Much like the Conservatives and any limits on abortion/gay marriage.


Jarnhamar said:


> Topic devolves to critiquing sources again?
> Classic.


Remember, if you don't have anything intelligent to say on a topic, just shout down the source.


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## Retired AF Guy (4 Apr 2021)

Not only will the NDP be debating abolishing the CAF, but also billionaires and police forces! Here, courtesy of the CBC is full list of all the motions the NDP will be debating.​​

> With an election looming, grassroots New Democrats propose over 500 policy resolutions





> David Thurton , Olivia Stefanovich  · CBC News  · Posted: Apr 04, 2021 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 4 hours ago
> 
> Delegates will have 24 hours to prioritize the resolutions on April 6 — just three days before the virtual convention kicks off.
> 
> ...



Link


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## Good2Golf (4 Apr 2021)

I can’t imagine any sane business person staying in a country where your entire revenue is taken from you.

One couldn’t have a more effective plan to drive the economy into the ground.


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## Weinie (4 Apr 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> I can’t imagine any sane business person staying in a country where your entire revenue is taken from you.
> 
> *One couldn’t have a more effective plan to drive the economy into the ground.*


And then they, who know better than us unwashed masses, will supplant democracy, and rule. It has worked before. (See "_Socialist countries in the last century_.")


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## mariomike (4 Apr 2021)

> outlaw mandatory overtime.



That would have been nice.


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## daftandbarmy (4 Apr 2021)

The NDP staffer came up with this 'cancel the CAF' debate idea is clearly a genius. 

Look at all the free advertising it's getting for a previously unknown, relatively powerless national political party


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## Retired AF Guy (4 Apr 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> I can’t imagine any sane business person staying in a country where your entire revenue is taken from you.
> 
> One couldn’t have a more effective plan to drive the economy into the ground.


I believe that is what happened in the UK during the 70-80s where high taxes on the rich resulted in them fleeing the country.


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## daftandbarmy (4 Apr 2021)

Retired AF Guy said:


> I believe that is what happened in the UK during the 70-80s where high taxes on the rich resulted in them fleeing the country.



And contributed to the elimination of Labour from the political arena for decades, beginning with the rise of Thatcher:

"In 1971 the top rate of income tax on earned income was cut to 75%. A surcharge of 15% kept the top rate on investment income at 90%.[17] In 1974 the cut was partly reversed and the top rate on earned income was raised to 83%. With the investment income surcharge this raised the top rate on investment income to 98%, the highest permanent rate since the war. This applied to incomes over £20,000 (£209,963 as of 2019).[7]

The Government of Margaret Thatcher, who favoured indirect taxation, reduced personal income tax rates during the 1980s.[18] In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83% to 60% and the basic rate from 33% to 30%.[19] The basic rate was also cut for three successive budgets – to 29% in the 1986 budget, 27% in 1987 and to 25% in 1988.[20] The top rate of income tax was cut to 40% in the 1988 budget. The investment income surcharge was abolished in 1985.

Under the government of John Major the basic rate was reduced in stages to 23% by 1997."






						History of taxation in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## DeweyDecimal (5 Apr 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> I can’t imagine any sane business person staying in a country where your entire revenue is taken from you.
> 
> One couldn’t have a more effective plan to drive the economy into the ground.


I can only imagine the hardships faced by those who would be  left with an income of only 999 999 999 $.....


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## Good2Golf (5 Apr 2021)

DeweyDecimal said:


> I can only imagine the hardships faced by those who would be  left with an income of only 999 999 999 $.....


Not like any of us here would ever know, but the point is that these wealth redistribution plans brief well, until you have to find a new source of income, because those who wish not to be taxed at globally uncompetitive rates no longer contribute to the redistribution source.


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## Weinie (5 Apr 2021)

DeweyDecimal said:


> I can only imagine the hardships faced by those who would be  left with an income of only 999 999 999 $.....


It's not income, it is wealth that is 100% taxed.


Good2Golf said:


> Not like any of us here would ever know, but the point is that these wealth redistribution plans brief well, until you have to find a new source of income, because those who wish not to be taxed at globally uncompetitive rates no longer contribute to the redistribution source.


And my read on this is that it is a wealth tax, not an income tax. The goal is to eliminate billionaires. As much wealth is tied up in infrastructure, land and stocks, either these get liquidated, confiscated, or both. Then they are either nationalized, or sold to realize. Nationalization rarely succeeds competitively, and with wealth confiscated, there are few domestic buyers left. The job losses and economic blow would be catastrophic, not to mention the resulting dearth of innovation and R&D. But, I am not a socialist, so what do I know.


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## OldSolduer (5 Apr 2021)

Tax the rich too much and they will flee. Where does that lost revenue come from? Those that are left behind. Those that can’t leave the country.


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## Good2Golf (5 Apr 2021)

OldSolduer said:


> Tax the rich too much and they will flee. Where does that lost revenue come from? Those that are left behind. Those that can’t leave the country.


The Middle Class must be prepared to fill in for the departed rich.  It’s only fair not to deny everyone the money that they are entitled to.


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## Brad Sallows (6 Apr 2021)

So this is not an April Fools prank?  It is just the consequence of having a very open policy for accepting proposals?


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## FJAG (6 Apr 2021)

On the other hand the Liberals have no policy resolutions re defence on their convention agenda at all (just a side comment about the crap the CAF found in long term care homes). 

Policy | 2021 Liberal National Convention | Liberal Party of Canada

So there's that.

I tried to find anything in their policy booklets about defence but unfortunately beyond "strong and secure" I could find nothing at all.

😤


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## Good2Golf (6 Apr 2021)

FJAG said:


> On the other hand the Liberals have no policy resolutions re defence on their convention agenda at all (just a side comment about the crap the CAF found in long term care homes).
> 
> Policy | 2021 Liberal National Convention | Liberal Party of Canada
> 
> ...


The difference between ‘distribute wealth to all’ vs ‘distribute wealth amongst friends.’


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## CBH99 (6 Apr 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> So this is not an April Fools prank?  It is just the consequence of having a very open policy for accepting proposals?


Even if it was just some crazy person’s ill informed proposal - the fact they they announced it & are actually planning to debate it is jaw dropping to me 🤯🤦🏼‍♂️

Great way for them to have some of their supporters go find someone else to support though  (my 0.02)


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## Weinie (6 Apr 2021)

CBH99 said:


> Even if it was just some crazy person’s ill informed proposal - the fact they they announced it & are actually planning to debate it is jaw dropping to me 🤯🤦🏼‍♂️
> 
> Great way for them to have some of their supporters go find someone else to support though  (my 0.02)


Yeah, but don't know how many billionaire supporters the NDP have.


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## daftandbarmy (7 Apr 2021)

Weinie said:


> Yeah, but don't know how many billionaire Champagne Socialist supporters the NDP have.



There, FTFY


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## Brad Sallows (7 Apr 2021)

The NDP aren't seriously interested in winning federally, so continue to have the luxury to open the floor to anything.  I suppose they continue to be satisfied as long as they can pull the LPC a little to the left.


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## Eaglelord17 (8 Apr 2021)

Honestly I think it is a good thing they debate this. The reason being that every government institution should have to justify its existence on a continual basis. Obviously the military is a very easy one to justify, but the questions should periodically be asked anyways. The only groups that should be afraid of these questions are those who cannot justify their existence and therefore should be out of a job.


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## Ostrozac (8 Apr 2021)

Eaglelord17 said:


> Honestly I think it is a good thing they debate this. The reason being that every government institution should have to justify its existence on a continual basis. Obviously the military is a very easy one to justify, but the questions should periodically be asked anyways. The only groups that should be afraid of these questions are those who cannot justify their existence and therefore should be out of a job.


Fundamental questions like "What is the military for?" and "Iceland gets the protection of NATO without paying for a military -- how do they get away it?" are indeed perfectly legitimate questions to ask in a democracy. That these questions are often treated as a 'third rail' or 'forbidden subject' says more about Canadian political culture than about actual military reality.


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## Weinie (8 Apr 2021)

Ostrozac said:


> Fundamental questions like "What is the military for?" and "Iceland gets the protection of NATO without paying for a military -- how do they get away it?" are indeed perfectly legitimate questions to ask in a democracy. That these questions are often treated as a 'third rail' or 'forbidden subject' says more about Canadian political culture than about actual military reality.


You are correct. Those are legitimate questions. Third rail feedback results from this:

WHEREAS: WHEREAS the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), *and Canadian forces in Afghanistan engaged in propping up a US-puppet government of human rights abusers, drug traffickers and warlords, wasting money and lives to further a western agenda of geo-political power and plunder of resources;* BE IT RESOLVED THAT: Therefore, BE IT RESOLVED THAT the NDP actively campaign to get Canada out of NATO, to get NATO out of Afghanistan, *to remove the NATO nuclear ring around Russian borders, and to disengage Canadian forces from any support role for the U.S. and its client regimes around the world.* 

04–42–20 ELIMINATION OF THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES Spadina-Fort York WHEREAS: militaries and war have devastatingly negative impacts on civilian populations, including needless deaths, bodily injury and the loss of housing. *militaries and war are a historic institution with no place in a modern society.* in a world with a globalized economy traditional militaries are becoming increasingly unnecessary. other countries such as Costa Rica, Iceland, Samoa and Panama have abolished their armies. BE IT RESOLVED THAT: THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT an NDP government will commit to phasing out the Canadian Armed Forces.


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## OldSolduer (8 Apr 2021)

Weinie said:


> You are correct. Those are legitimate questions. Third rail feedback results from this:
> 
> WHEREAS: WHEREAS the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), *and Canadian forces in Afghanistan engaged in propping up a US-puppet government of human rights abusers, drug traffickers and warlords, wasting money and lives to further a western agenda of geo-political power and plunder of resources;* BE IT RESOLVED THAT: Therefore, BE IT RESOLVED THAT the NDP actively campaign to get Canada out of NATO, to get NATO out of Afghanistan, *to remove the NATO nuclear ring around Russian borders, and to disengage Canadian forces from any support role for the U.S. and its client regimes around the world.*
> 
> 04–42–20 ELIMINATION OF THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES Spadina-Fort York WHEREAS: militaries and war have devastatingly negative impacts on civilian populations, including needless deaths, bodily injury and the loss of housing. *militaries and war are a historic institution with no place in a modern society.* in a world with a globalized economy traditional militaries are becoming increasingly unnecessary. other countries such as Costa Rica, Iceland, Samoa and Panama have abolished their armies. BE IT RESOLVED THAT: THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT an NDP government will commit to phasing out the Canadian Armed Forces.


There in lies the real issue. Anti US sentiment and pro Russian (Communist). Leopards don't change their spots.

I realize this is one constituency proposing this but you have to wonder how many NDP people subscribe to this idiocy.


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## FJAG (9 Apr 2021)

OldSolduer said:


> There in lies the real issue. Anti US sentiment and pro Russian (Communist). Leopards don't change their spots.
> 
> I realize this is one constituency proposing this but you have to wonder how many NDP people subscribe to this idiocy.



Interesting question.

Within the CPC each EDA forms a committee to consider resolutions which are then sent to the EDA executive for approval and prioritization. The EDA committee then seeks buy in on their resolutions by at least ten other EDAs before it is submitted nationally and a final decision is made on which resolutions will hit the floor for a vote.

The NDP seem to be more democratic and loose and anyone can submit a resolution to the EDA which simply prioritizes them and sends off (I think) just the top one for consideration by the convention. I know that for the CPC virtual convention each resolution was introduced by the EDA putting it forward in a short video and then three people were randomly allowed to speak for and three against the resolution before the delegates voted.

The NDP will have each delegate rank only ten resolutions in each of the seven policy sections and after that all the resolutions in each section will be ranked in order of priority based on the cumulative scores of the delegates. I'm not sure where the cutoff for how many resolutions in each category are actually adopted.

To me it looks like the NDP will just have delegates vote on the various resolutions virtually without any further debate. All that I see is about one hour-from 4:40 to 5:40 EST, on Saturday allocated to the forty-eight Section 4 resolutions listed. That's a minute apiece and barely enough time to introduce the resolution.

🍻


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## CBH99 (9 Apr 2021)

Over the last year and a bit, we have been caught in a negative position because we did not maintain even a baseline capability to manufacture our own PPE.  The same applies to vaccine production, etc.

We have all learned the value of maintaining a baseline for self suffiency, which can be ramped up if time of need.

The fact that the NDP are even giving this any sort of merit shows, to me anyway, that they haven't learned some of the basic lessons that we as a nation have been reminded of.


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## Kilted (9 Apr 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> The Middle Class must be prepared to fill in for the departed rich.  It’s only fair not to deny everyone the money that they are entitled to.


Well that's the difference between Fascism and Socialism.  In Fascism a certain group of people is denied rights, in Socialism, everyone is.


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## Underway (9 Apr 2021)

I'm seeing little to no issues with anything the NDP want to debate in their national policy.  It's no more regressive than some of the stuff the Liberal policy conventions or the Conservative policy conventions come up with. But here's the thing people of course are missing.  Policy conventions are entirely for the purpose of floating new ideas AND making money for the party.  A government is not beholden to a policy convention.  Because you know that thing called politics and parliament get in the way.


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## Good2Golf (9 Apr 2021)

Underway said:


> I'm seeing little to no issues with anything the NDP want to debate in their national policy.  It's no more regressive than some of the stuff the Liberal policy conventions or the Conservative policy conventions come up with. But here's the thing people of course are missing.  Policy conventions are entirely for the purpose of floating new ideas AND making money for the party.  A government is not beholden to a policy convention.  Because you know that thing called politics and parliament get in the way.


That may be, but as the Conservatives found voting down acknowledgement of climate change being an issue of import, other parties will use such statements to their own benefit. I think very few Canadians truly want to see the CAF eliminated to make health assistant and tree planting cadres.


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## Underway (9 Apr 2021)

Exactly, the base will do what the base does.  And if that base can be used against the party then it will be.  Again, not worried.  The parties on either "ends" of the spectrum have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot.  It's not like the NDP was ever getting the military vote, and certainly, the conservatives never get the environmental vote.


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## Weinie (9 Apr 2021)

Underway said:


> Exactly, the base will do what the base does.  And if that base can be used against the party then it will be.  Again, not worried.  The parties on either "ends" of the spectrum have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot.  It's not like the NDP was ever getting the military vote, and certainly, the conservatives never get the environmental vote.


Agreed. And without handing the NDP any strategic guidance here, I wonder if they always consider themselves as a "third" alternative who occasionally become kingmakers in a minority, but are so fractured by the broad base support that they can never present a credible platform to Canadian voters in any other instance.


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## Underway (9 Apr 2021)

Weinie said:


> Agreed. And without handing the NDP any strategic guidance here, I wonder if they always consider themselves as a "third" alternative who occasionally become kingmakers in a minority, but are so fractured by the broad base support that they can never present a credible platform to Canadian voters in any other instance.


No party is ever elected into government in Canada.  Parties are voted out. All the NDP need to do is present themselves as a viable alternative to the Liberals and they will do well.  This means their party platform for an election will likely not include half the stuff that the policy convention voted for.  Both the Liberals and Conservatives do this, play lip service to the policy convention and use it as a clearinghouse for ideas, rile up the base, get some nice funding and identify future leaders for the party.

The problem with political philosophies is that you'll make the wrong decision, knowing it's the wrong decision in order to align with the philosophy.  This is an example of the NDP doing just that thing.


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