# Accepting the Queen‘s Shilling



## TOW2B (18 Sep 2001)

Most of the pers on this forum are current members serving in the CF in one capacity or another.My question is this.....As a serving member of the CF if Canada was called to war how many would actually go?????What about the civi members?The facts are that despite the bluster and chest beating there are members of the CF that never had any intention of putting their lives on the line if called upon.Does one‘s morales override the call to duty???What about religion??Simply put you sign up and collect the pay WILL YOU DO YOUR DUTY????


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## meathead (18 Sep 2001)

As an active member of the reserves for almost 4 years now I have seen many different "types" of reservists. It is my strong belief that if the call came out to go to war or put our lives on the line, I know for a fact that there would be a large portion of reservists including myself that would answer the call. But I also know for a fact that there would be a large number of reservists that would pull pin and run with their tails between their legs. Correct me if i am wrong, but i believe this was a problem at the time of the Gulf War in 1991.


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## Rick Goebel (18 Sep 2001)

There were reservists (of several nations) who "opted out" of the Gulf War.  There were also regulars (of several nations including Canada) who tried to "opt out".

Many of the stories of US reservists failing to serve or objecting to service in the Gulf War were actually about professionals like doctors and lawyers who were called up to serve backfilling deployed regulars on US bases rather than in theatre and who had a problem with their practices going broke while they essentially did nothing on some obscure base somewhere.

I suspect that there were more reservists disappointed that they weren‘t called up than there were who objected to call up as I suspect that there were more regulars disappointed that they weren‘t deployed than there were who objected to being deployed.


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## TOW2B (19 Sep 2001)

The reserve aspect is interesting as a Reg you are already "activated".The idea that someone would object to be called up because "their civi job pays more" is frankly appalling.If you accept the pay you do your job...end of story.It‘s not all about Milcons or Ice Storms.


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## meathead (19 Sep 2001)

> Originally posted by Tommy Atkins:
> [qb]The idea that someone would object to be called up because "their civi job pays more" is frankly appalling.If you accept the pay you do your job...end of story.It‘s not all about Milcons or Ice Storms.[/qb]



Yes the reserve world is different that our regular force counterparts, but in the defence of my fellow reservists, many are forced to give up more when called to duty. As with a regular force member who works monday to friday as a soldier belonging to their unit, reservists do not. Many are full time students studying a vast selection of programs. Some are medical professionals, some are law professionals. Some work in high tech, some work inconstruction. Their commitment to the reserves is on top of their daily lives and that makes it more of a sacrafice when called up. This is something you need to understand because it is not as easy as "you accept your pay...you do your job". I usually support the regular force in arguments against the reserves, but in this case i have to side with my reserve colleagues. As for you Tommy Atkins, don‘t make ignorant comments like that. All it does is contribute to the seperation between the regs and reserves while we should be working to narrow that division. Ensure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!


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## Master Blaster (19 Sep 2001)

Mr. Atkins;

I‘m sure that in your vast wealth of military knowledge you have encountered many instances where you have personally been involved n combat and seen the devastation first hand.  If that is indeed the case, Charge On! and let the fodder fall where they may.  If it is not the case, where do you get off telling a story of implied fear and cowardice?  When you have heard the crack of a bullet that has missed your head by inches or scraped the contents of someone‘s intestines off of your kit after a patrol you have the right to complain that someone else should be there instead of you!

I have addressed this issue with others on this page and for the most part have been satisfied that the majority of young soldiers that have signed up in the last few years would (some reluctantly) go if directed by their commanders to complete the mission as directed by their political masters.  I have trained some that would not go no matter the threat or consequence and that is one of the reasons that I am considering retiring from the army.  I can no longer control the end results of wether or not a soldier is "good to go" and that is the saddest part of this whole issue.  

Even if these young men and women complete the mission the attrition rate will exceed the very worst case scenarios that can be imagined by the numb nuts in NDHQ.

Dileas Gu Brath


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## TOW2B (20 Sep 2001)

The intention was not cause friction between the Regs and Reserves,the fact is there are some on all sides who have refused service.As for my self I have been there done it and got the Wound Stripe,(wrong place wrong time!!!)The point I was making is that if you are being paid to do a job then you had better do it or rethink you decision.Will Canadian Forces be involved in the WAR ON TERRORISM??? I would put money on it maybe not now but sooner or later the call will come.From what I have seen in both Regs and Reserves we have a fairly well trained Army,Navy,Airforce but as mentioned above how many will simply pack up and go homewhen the call up comes or refuse to serve,in my books that‘s called desertion.


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## Yard Ape (20 Sep 2001)

I belive that is what the National Defence Act calls it too . . . and, when the call comes, it does not descriminate between Reg or Reserve on that matter.

   Yard Ape


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## ender (20 Sep 2001)

I am a reservist who is also a student at University, there are quite a few of us.  If they were to ask for volunteers right now I really couldn‘t go because I have just payed 6000$ for tuition and books (not to mention my lease).  If I a had a contract of a guarantee that I would be class C for I certain amount of time then I could see if that would make up for it financially, otherwise I would be screwed.  I‘m already dependent of student loans as it is.

If my unit gets called out I would go and sort everything else out later.  I did sign up for this knowing what I was getting into.  But if they ask for individuals I‘m not in a position where I can volunteer to leave right now becuase of my financial obligations.  That‘s just the way it is.

Reservists have civilian commitments, and while in an emergency the army comes first in a less critical situation they need time to sort out thier civilian lives before leaving.

(this post was originally typed without spaces becuase my keyboard was broken but I fixed that now)


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Sep 2001)

ender, 
Christ that‘s annoying. Give me an email address and I‘ll send you a key board!!!


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## ender (21 Sep 2001)

fixed it.  I‘ll go back and fix my post.


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## ender (21 Sep 2001)

ignore this post.


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## meathead (22 Sep 2001)

> Originally posted by ender:
> [QB]I am a reservist who is also a student at University, there are quite a few of us.  If they were to ask for volunteers right now I really couldn‘t go because I have just payed 6000$ for tuition and books (not to mention my lease
> 
> Reservists have civilian commitments, and while in an emergency the army comes first in a less critical situation they need time to sort out thier civilian lives before leaving.


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## meathead (22 Sep 2001)

Ender

As a fellow reservist i can understand your worry about loosing your money for tuition and books, but thats not a valid excuse. A valid exsuse is a reservist who has a family to support, something along the lines of a company or medical practice that they would loose. Those are life altering committments, not because you would loose your tuition.

I am a student myself and if i was required to drop my studies to answer the call, my tuition and books would be the last thing on my mind.

Sorry for being so harsh, but to me that just sounds like another lame excuse that my fellow reservists use too often.


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## RCA (22 Sep 2001)

Under an act of parliament or an order in council, reservists would be called up and those in would have their terms of service changed to unlimited liability and all that entails. 

If reservists are called up, university and civvy commitments would be the least of our worries, because the s*** has hit the fan.

When and if the dust settles the issues of lack of job protection and such would come up. I feel most reservists would do their duty, however the fact is if we move into a mobilization scenario, reservists are putting themselves out on a limb in more ways then one.

These points may seem trivial now, but long-term can have far-reaching effects on reservists upon their return.


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## Doug VT (22 Sep 2001)

Everyone has different fears and opinions and nobody has the right to judge or criticize anyone else.  You were all raised differently and have different ideals.  We all know that there are reservists who would volenteer at the drop of a hat for any type of operation, however for some that may be a very scary thing.  Ender‘s excuse is not "lame"  at all, although I do agree that there are some lame excuses out there.  If it were to become an act of parliment to mobilize the reserves then you would have little choice unless you were unfit.  If you failed to meet this call, you would suffer the consequenses.  Lets all hope that it doesn‘t come to that...  

You shouldn‘t be worried about what bloggins is doing, you should be thinking about what you would do.

RCA says it well.


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## ender (25 Sep 2001)

I realize that, and if I am called up I would go, screw University.
However, if they ask for volunteers, I couldn‘t volunteer right now, unless I had a contract that would pay me enough so I wouldn‘t be in complete debt.


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## TOW2B (27 Sep 2001)

What about the US System for their National Guard,should a system like that be implemented in Canada??If so why hasn‘t it???As far as debts for education,etc should the Government take up the slack for pers who are called up????


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## Yard Ape (27 Sep 2001)

Do you mean that Canada should legislate job protection? X number of days per month and Y weeks per year?

   Yard Ape


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## Alfreda (27 Sep 2001)

Maybe I‘m a little naive, but with regards to the reserves.  Why do you join?  It can‘t be the money or we wouldn‘t have such a shortage.  I have a friend who is a reservist and says she will do whatever is necessary, meaning, if somethings happens she will be first in line. 
Could someone please explain?


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## ender (28 Sep 2001)

Why did I join?
(in no particular order)
To do something that is really hard, that pushes me beyond my limits.
To defend my country.
To do cool army stuff like shoot guns and blow stuff up.

I wish Canada had something like the States with job protection and stuff.  I know a lot of reservists have a hard time getting time off work to do courses. (those who arn‘t in school)  Let alone tours.


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## Alfreda (28 Sep 2001)

I know what you mean.  I wonder if stuff really did happen, what would we be able to do.  With the sorry state the reserves are in I doubt if they would be sent over on active duty.  Better to  see to the home guard, maybe.
I was never Army, however, grew up a brat. Therefore, needless to say, if I was 20 years younger I would join now.

Cheers


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## peanutshel (28 Sep 2001)

Ender, I think the majority of Reservists are cut from the same ‘cloth‘ as you.  I put in my release in April but it‘s still is floating around in the system.  My son asked me what I would do if they ‘mobilzed‘
the Reserve and called me up on ‘active duty‘ since I‘m not really released yet.  I said "Guess I would dress in green and hang around in the middle of a field".  No-one actually WANTS to get their asses shot off, but this is what we signed on the dotted line for and have been trained for.  However, if the CO says "Who‘s volunteering", I don‘t stand up first, because over 3/4 of my Regt has their hands up.  But if he said "We are ALL going", well guess I‘d be packing up my old kit bag...   :crybaby:


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## the patriot (29 Sep 2001)

For those who are worried about their "university careers", the government has historically setup various schemes during and after a war to help the troops resume or start their studies at university.  And do remember the day you were sworn in by the Crown.  

**************************************************************************
Canadian Forces Oath of Allegiance

I, undersigned

Joe Bloggins

Do swear that I will be faithfull and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, her heirs and successors according to law.

So help me God.
**************************************************************************

Don‘t ever turn your back on God, Queen, and Country.  Whoever would dare do that is a coward in my book!!!!

-the patriot-


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