# What rights and freedoms would a person be giving up if he/she joins the forces?



## Username1900 (19 Aug 2011)

What rights and freedoms would a person be giving up if he/she joins the forces?


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## ModlrMike (19 Aug 2011)

With your profile as is, we know *nothing* about where you're coming from.

The Charter protects all Canadians regardless of whether they serve or not. There is no loss of rights nor freedoms inherent in military service. That being said, there are from time to time, limitations on one's freedoms. Campaigning for political office is one that comes to mind.


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## Privateer (19 Aug 2011)

The benefit of trial by jury where the maximum punishment for the offence is imprisonment for five years or a more severe punishment, in the case of an offence under military law tried before a military tribunal:  Charter, s. 11(f)


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## vonGarvin (19 Aug 2011)

Username1900 said:
			
		

> I am asking a serious question. I just wanted to know what restrictions would be in place. I think you can empathize with me and know where I am coming from.
> 
> Thanks to all the serious replies.


As a serving member of the Canadian Forces, you are not permitted to run for public office, less municipal (I believe).  You also, as a volunteer, have unlmited liability to Canada, which means that you can legally be ordered to do something during which you could be killed.  

Also, as a member of the Canadian Forces, though you have the same rights and privelages as other Canadians, including that of freedom of expression, there are simply some things that may surprise the ordinary Canadian.  

For example, Canada still had the death penalty long after it was removed from the Criminal Code: the Natonal Defence Act had it until September 1999 for certain offences.  
Also, where Joe P. Civilian can publish a paper suggesting the forceful removal of any legitimate goverment in Canada, the NDA states:



> Every person who publishes or circulates any writing, printing or document in which is advocated, or who teaches or advocates, the use, without the authority of law, of force as a means of accomplishing any governmental change within Canada is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to imprisonment for life or to less punishment.



And while people may say certain things about HM The Queen, the NDA states:



> Every person who uses traitorous or disloyal words regarding Her Majesty is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years or to less punishment.




So, there are nuances, but essentially, every member of the CF is a volunteer, a Canadian and as such, may have certain limits or expectations, but when it comes down to the brass tacks, your freedoms and rights would not be much different.


As an example, during the election in 2008, I was in Afghanistan, and it was one of our missions to ensure that every single member of the battlegroup of which I was a member was given the opportunity to vote, just as every eligible Canadian can.  By secret ballot.

I hope this helps.


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## cnobbs84 (19 Aug 2011)

I also think that he may be speaking of travel. I am currently waiting for the call myself, so I am curious as to are their travel restrictions like vacations etc...


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## Navalsnpr (19 Aug 2011)

Duty with Honour:

http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/cfli-ilfc/doc/dwh-eng.pdf

Especially 'Unlimited Liability'

_As such, all members accept and understand that they are subject to being lawfully ordered into harm’s way under conditions that could lead to the loss of their lives._


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## GnyHwy (19 Aug 2011)

There are no restrictions to travel other than places you shouldn't go to in the first place.  If you are looking to solve problems from a local perspective and want to help local people (insert most 3rd world nation's local people) with local problems, then join the Red Cross.  Other than that, I have been to many great places, and a few shitty places as well.  From my experience, I have not been stripped of any rights.  I am required to respect stricter rules, but I am a free Canadian nonetheless.


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## Gunner98 (20 Aug 2011)

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/menu-eng.asp

If you see the country listed as 'Travel Warning' then you will need at least a pre-travel briefing or you may be prohibited from travelling there as a soldier on leave. The difference for soldiers is the decision is not within their control.


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## cnobbs84 (20 Aug 2011)

GnyHwy said:
			
		

> There are no restrictions to travel other than places you shouldn't go to in the first place.  If you are looking to solve problems from a local perspective and want to help local people (insert most 3rd world nation's local people) with local problems, then join the Red Cross.  Other than that, I have been to many great places, and a few shitty places as well.  From my experience, I have not been stripped of any rights.  I am required to respect stricter rules, but I am a free Canadian nonetheless.



I heard rumors that members in the CF cannot personally visit communist countries ie Cuba. Does this hold any merit? Now I understand if I and privileged enough to get a call where ever I go will be representing Canada more so than the typical Canadian hence the "stricter rules". I also heard depending on your trade and security clearance that also restricts you more to where you can personally visit because of potential dangers to yourself and secrets of Canada. Does this also hold any merit?


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## cnobbs84 (20 Aug 2011)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/menu-eng.asp
> 
> If you see the country listed as 'Travel Warning' then you will need at least a pre-travel briefing or you may be prohibited from travelling there as a soldier on leave. The difference for soldiers is the decision is not within their control.



That helps greatly. Thank you for your imput.


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## Gunner98 (20 Aug 2011)

It should be remembered that these warning levels change often for some countries and for others like Russia they have existed for decades.


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## Pusser (20 Aug 2011)

I've known lots of CF members who have vacationed in Cuba.


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## RCDtpr (20 Aug 2011)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> With your profile as is, we know *nothing* about where you're coming from.
> 
> The Charter protects all Canadians regardless of whether they serve or not. There is no loss of rights nor freedoms inherent in military service. That being said, there are from time to time, limitations on one's freedoms. Campaigning for political office is one that comes to mind.



I'll assume this post was directed at me as it's in place of my previous post that was deleted/removed.  I don't update my profile because as we all know the CF is a small world and it's pretty easy for people to figure out who someone is.  I prefer to stay somewhat anonymous.  I will say I've got more than a few years in and I've been to Afghanistan...I'd say my opinion is informed.

As for my statement that you lose freedoms....I absolutely stand behind it.  In the CF there are times when you are not free to do what you want.  On BMQ you will not be allowed to leave, talk on the phone etc. except when and if you are told you may do so.  Same for deployments and field ex's.

At unit level, you are at the mercy of your CO.  If your CO says you work...then you are working, regardless of time of day or day of the week.  You can also be told what geographical area you must remain in (I.E. within 2 hours of base)

I'm not complaining about it, or disagreeing with it etc.....the poster asked a question and I answered.  You will not have your rights as a Canadian infringed on...but you are going to lose some freedoms if you join the CF.  That's the reality of it.


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## ModlrMike (20 Aug 2011)

RCDcpl said:
			
		

> I'll assume this post was directed at me as it's in place of my previous post that was deleted/removed.



It was actually directed at Username 1900. I'm always interested in someone's profile when their first post is vague and somewhat inflammatory. Particularly when they later reply "you don't know where I'm coming from".


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## Username1900 (20 Aug 2011)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I asked this question because I wanted to gain more knowledge about the issue. Thanks for allowing me to gain this knowledge. I haven't filled out my profile because of personal reasons. Thank you for helping me make my decision.


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## aesop081 (20 Aug 2011)

cnobbs84 said:
			
		

> Does this hold any merit?



No.



> Does this also hold any merit?



No.


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## Greymatters (20 Aug 2011)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> With your profile as is, we know *nothing* about where you're coming from.
> 
> The Charter protects all Canadians regardless of whether they serve or not. There is no loss of rights nor freedoms inherent in military service. That being said, there are from time to time, limitations on one's freedoms. Campaigning for political office is one that comes to mind.



Sorry MM, I would also disagree would you.  While they arent much in the way of 'losses', there are a significant number of restrictions on freedoms and rights when you sign on the dotted line.  However, that ironclad service contract and military legal system also works to your benefit, if you know how to work with the system properly.  (note that I said to "work with  the system", not "work the system", there's a big difference)


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