# Running pains



## adaccache (23 Nov 2004)

I am not sure if this is the right place to ask, but it does seem to fit best.

I started training about three-four weeks ago, trying to get in shape and ready for boot camp, and since then my joints are really hurting.

to give you some background, the first week I was running with some cheap Nike basketball shoes...shin splints like crazy, so I went to the running room and got me a pair of good shoes...shin splints went away...but then my joints began to hurt...but I also began to run a LOT more...and on the sidewalk and not on the grass as I was before...

ever since I got the shoes, and have been running...especially my left knee, feels like it's out of place...everytime I step (even walking) it feels like it's about to pop out...sometimes it's ok, sometimes it's not..now keep in mind the pain DOES carry to a few days after...then seems to go away by the 3rd day or so

now I read a lot of info on this forum and asked lots of questions, and I get the whole 'run 1 day, rest 2, run 1, rest 2'...and thats what I have been doing...and I am wondering is this a sign that I should really take a big break? is it normal? is something (muscle, ligament) developing down there?

I do plan on seeing a doctor if you guys deem it best, but I figured i'd shoot it off here first, maybe someone has some advice to give me...

I hope my posts makes sense/legible, I've had a long day  :blotto:


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## adaccache (23 Nov 2004)

One thing I just want to add in case it has some relevance, I might be pushing myself too hard

keep in mind the last 4 years of my life, I have not done any more exercise then walking out of my car, walking into work...thats about as much exercise as I've gotten

ever since I've decided thats what I been wanting to do, I kind of been going all out until exhausting

first time I ran, I did 1 lap straight, then walked and ran 3 more
second time, I ran 3 laps straight
third time, I ran about 1Km
forth time about 1km
fifth time, 1.75 km with 2 breaks
sixth time 2.5 kms with 2 breaks
seven time 1.75 km km with 1 break
eight time 2.5 with 1 break

by break I mean walking about 20M

and I haven't been since...is it too much? Should I slow it down a bit? Any advice appreciated


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## Freight_Train (23 Nov 2004)

You need to slow down and take a break.   You body is simply not ready for what you are asking it to do.   Google a beginners running program after you feel better and start again slowly adding distance and intensity.   While you are resting, go see the Dr. to make sure you haven't really injured yourself, ie, your knee.   You can't just jump off the couch and expect your sedentary ways to not have some sort of impact on you.   You do not want to go into BMQ overtrained and/or injured.


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## zerhash (23 Nov 2004)

the trick is to push yourself further than you normaly could go

but you dont want to hit exhaustion every time otherwise you will require more down time to avoid injury

for your joint A535 help

in terms of loads... if you ever plan on doing a significant amount more (say 50%) give yourself some time before to get your muscles relaxed


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## adaccache (23 Nov 2004)

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it 

I did get a runner's beginner program from Running Room, but in my head I am thinking it's aimed for the 'average' person...older, out of shape, and not as determined as me...and it doesn't get me the results as fast as I am hoping it would.

I have no doubt in my mind you guys are right, and I do need to slow it down...and quite frankly part of me is saying the same thing, but then again the other half as me says push harder if you want to be 'ready'...I guess I don't know where to draw that fine line of where it's too much and where it's not enough...

the pain in my knee is worth 1000 words, and now I do realize I need to slow it down...but my worry is that even if I do slow it down and gradually build up distance:time...will my knee still have the same problem or will that problem (or whatever is causing it) go away because I am doing it gradually?

I guess I am really worried...I don't think I had joint pains when I was 16...ahh how I miss those days.


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## zerhash (23 Nov 2004)

i would recomend if you still want to push yourself beyond. lower your running a bit and throw in swimming. lots and lots of swimming

high impact sports like running limit you to how much training you can do. swimming is a good way to increase cardio


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## canadianblue (24 Nov 2004)

I had the exact same problem as you did. My only solution to it is to not run for three weeks. Afterwards warmup for 15 minutes, then job 10, walk 5, and jog 10. Also take your jog slower for atleast a month before getting more aggressive. Another good idea is to go into a semi-sitting position before your jog, get a towel, wrap it around your two feet, and the pull the towel forwards. That was a really good stretch for me and did wonders.

Thats what worked for me atleast.

All the best to you


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## Playa69 (24 Nov 2004)

The best fix for running injuries is to avoid hurting yourself in the first place. It's not as difficult as you might think.

Some people believe that running is a fitly habit, dooming you to bad knees and shredded tendons. This is not true.

The fact that you enjoy pushing yourself -- this is good. But if your a beginner, take it easy on yourself. You will be hurting yourself more than its doing you good.

If your running for fitness, 30 mins 3 times a week is good enough when starting out. "Don't redline" Let your brain dictate your program, not your ego -- Patience is a virtue.

Learn from your injuries; Let your injury be a caution, and adjust your routine so that it doesn't happen again.

In some cases, injury results simply because you've been focusing too much on your running muscles and not enough on the others. Your muscle groups are out of balance. Knee injuries, for example, often result from the fact that running strengthens the back of the legs more than the front of the legs. Your relatively weak quadriceps aren't strong enough to keep your kneecap moving in its proper groove, and it starts to hurt. Strengthen those thigh muscles, and the pain will often go away. Several strengthening exercises that can help you prevent injuries, as well as recover from them.

LIGTH STRETCHING 15 mins before and 15 mins after your training. Sure 15 mins is a great deal of time, but it's a small sacrifice for a injury-free running.

TREAT YOUR FEET!! Buy good running shoes. Pick your shoe carefully. This is not to be taken lightly. The wrong shoe can actually aggravate existing problems, causing injuries in your feet, legs, knees or hips. Replace them every 750 kms and look into getting fitted for heel lifts or orthotics.

And last, try to avoid rock hard surfaces like concrete sidewalks and aim for grass and dirt trails. Run where the ground will absorb more shock, instead of passing it through your legs.

*Be conservative in your training program*  ;D


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## NavyGrunt (24 Nov 2004)

adaccache said:
			
		

> I did get a runner's beginner program from Running Room, but in my head I am thinking it's aimed for the 'average' person...older, out of shape, and not as determined as me...and it doesn't get me the results as fast as I am hoping it would.



Wrong attitude. If you were so "determined" why did you wait so long to address your running skill? Beginner is what eveyone starts at. Is it in the inside of your knee or the outside? Does your hip hurt? Its possible you are running to fart to fast- the more tired you get the less attention is paid to form. If you have a bad running "style" the issues will magnify.......slooooowly work your way up so that you are running consistantly and not getting sloppy near the end. 

Some people run with their discman in their hand- the longer they run the more it skips...because as time goes on they get sloppier and bouncier. 

I would recommend stopping for 2 weeks. Of course you wouldnt have had to take the break if you had avoided the problem and built up slowly.


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## Heatwave (24 Nov 2004)

Once again, all kinds of excellent suggestions.  One thing I would like to say, I've never seen anyone kicked out of BMQ for not being able to run (If you give it your all, to do whatever they ask, it doesn't matter if you can run the 100m like Donovan Bailey)...but I have seen it happen for injuries (usually a recourse situation, but I've seen releases).  

The Running Room has been in business for many years, and has many running clinics, for good reason.  They are well informed and experienced.  Start out at your own pace, but use their advise to aid in your goal.  

Finally, I know that Carlton U once had an excellent Sports Medicine Clinic.  They were extremely professional when I dealt with them and I suggest them as an option to see if they can help you out.  This was many years ago, so I hope they still exist.  Ultimately, you've got an injury and you have to address it, before continuing to worsen it.
Good Luck

Chimo!


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## DjC (24 Nov 2004)

I didn't want to start a new topic since I figured what I was going to post pretty much had to do with this topic. I got a bit of the same problem when I run. My joints at the knees begin to hurt and I remember being told as a kid that the more weight you carry above the knees, it puts pressure on them and pushes the cartlidge out and against the nerves. Basically you end up having to go for surgery  I myself when I was much younger, I was kinda chunky and fat, but I did much running in school. I lost much weight since then and only now for the past 4 years or so I am beginning to feel that pain inbetween the joints. Should I watch this or push myself slowly like stated above by GhostRaven?


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## Playa69 (24 Nov 2004)

DjC said:
			
		

> Should I watch this or push myself slowly like stated above by GhostRaven?



Both. 

If the pain is significant, go to a Ortho. specialist. Now if your starting out again, thats normal. 'Oil' those knees up.


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## zerhash (24 Nov 2004)

talking to your physician or a trainer would be a good idea. They are the best informed


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## adaccache (24 Nov 2004)

Aaron White said:
			
		

> Wrong attitude. If you were so "determined" why did you wait so long to address your running skill? Beginner is what eveyone starts at. Is it in the inside of your knee or the outside? Does your hip hurt? Its possible you are running to fart to fast- the more tired you get the less attention is paid to form. If you have a bad running "style" the issues will magnify.......slooooowly work your way up so that you are running consistantly and not getting sloppy near the end.
> 
> Some people run with their discman in their hand- the longer they run the more it skips...because as time goes on they get sloppier and bouncier.
> 
> I would recommend stopping for 2 weeks. Of course you wouldnt have had to take the break if you had avoided the problem and built up slowly.



I am not sure what you mean why I waited to song to address my running skill? You mean why I waited until now to start running? Well that's because I finally realized this is what I wanted to do and was ready to start working towards it...

it's the outside of my left knee...the pain went away today...after 4 days, and that's fine, I am taking a 2 week rest from anything stressfull, then I am going to take her slow as everyone advised...my hip does not hurt at all.

and yes I know I wouldn't have to take a break if I started slowly, ya live and learn right


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## adaccache (24 Nov 2004)

Heatwave said:
			
		

> The Running Room has been in business for many years, and has many running clinics, for good reason.   They are well informed and experienced.   Start out at your own pace, but use their advise to aid in your goal.
> 
> Finally, I know that Carlton U once had an excellent Sports Medicine Clinic.   They were extremely professional when I dealt with them and I suggest them as an option to see if they can help you out.   This was many years ago, so I hope they still exist.   Ultimately, you've got an injury and you have to address it, before continuing to worsen it.
> Good Luck
> ...



The running room gave me no real advice...he saw how I walked, helped me pic comfy shoes and thats it. while checking out, they gave me the plan and told me they had group runs at 6:30...which I can't make it due to work

I need to find a clinic...I   am gonna go to my doctor and have him help me find a physician...

Thanks to eveyone for the help


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## zerhash (24 Nov 2004)

GL bud
dont mention it


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## ImanIdiot (24 Nov 2004)

I have a running-related question....I figure I might as well ask in this thread instead of starting a new one.
When I run, I get this intense itching in my inner thighs, just above my knees, and across my kidneys. I have never had this problem before and I can't figure out what is causing it. I am a reasonably fit individual, and I'm not in the process of trying to get in shape for joining, Ive been in the CF for several years.

Has anyone else ever had a similar problem?


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## Freight_Train (24 Nov 2004)

What is Exercise Induced Analphylaxis (EIA) 

Exercise-induced anaphylaxis is a distinct form of physical allergy resulting in hypotension and syncope . See http://www.aafp.org/afp/20011015/1367.html. 

How Do I know If I suffer? 

EIA occurs during exercise particularly fast walking and moderate jogging/running over an extended period. You will know if you suffer as after a short while you will feel a mild itching sensation that within a short while manifests into complete, uncomfortable itching. It is common that you will have to stop. During this time the itching will calm down. Particularly if you scrath yourself. However, upon continuing the run you will feel the itching at the same, uncomfortable intensity within seconds. You can't run through it. On a recent run after 10 minutes I got unbearable itching. I stopped completely, let it calm down and continued running. Within 10 seconds it came back worse. 

What Causes It? 

For the past few months while running I experienced the above itching particularly in the thigh area. Many times it can be in the calves, love handles, but mostly thigh and inner thigh. It became incredibly frustrating to me so I decided to find out what causes it. "Mast cell degranulation with the release of vasoactive substances appears to be an inciting factor for the production of symptoms in both cases." (see http://www.aafp.org/afp/20011015/1367.html). 
Vasodilation causes the itching. The reason I get it in the thighs mostly as they are the primary movers and this is where the blood is heading. 

Why Does It Happen Only When I Run/Walk? 

If you ever suffer from the above, you probably wondered why, like I did does it not happen on the stationary bike? Why can I use a stair master and not get the itching? The common answer is because on all other activities your feet produce no impact on a surface. They are continually in the same place. They are placed in one spot and you train. 

Now when you walk fast or jog your feet are hitting the floor many many times at quite a hard rate. This produces the vessels to crack and releases histamines into the bloodstream. I get the itching in the thighs as they are the primary movers and the blood is heading there with these toxins. Therefore I am allergic. 

What Can I Do - I Want To Run? 

There is something we can all do. Obviously we should all be drinking water like fish to ensure we don't suffer from dehydration. Over at www.runningnetwork.com I found out that people are taking antihistamines, in particular clarityn 3 hours prior to running and found no itching present. Alas, I am not one to look to pills and I don't believe you should either but it's good to know there is a sure fire way to stop it. 

Other things to lessen the sensation is to run on softer surfaces. I have ran on treadmills and found the springy ones to produce less impact. I get the itching still but nowhere near intense. Running on grass is also softer so any surface which is soft is useful. Running in the winter makes the condition worse. You can also try wearing cycling shorts under a pair of tracksuit bottoms to create less friction of the thighs. Sadly though taking an antihistamine like a clarityn is the only thing I have found to work.


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## ImanIdiot (25 Nov 2004)

wow...that really sucks. i had hoped it was some crazy allergic reaction to laundry soap or something haha. damn.


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## ImanIdiot (25 Nov 2004)

thanks for the info. this is seriously uncool.


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## Excolis (26 Nov 2004)

start little and work up to bigger things...   don't push yourself to hard, or you will do more damage than anything


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## Brad Sallows (26 Nov 2004)

I have always been prone to shin splints in the early stages of a running program until I can comfortably lengthen out the stride a bit, and with age my knees have become more susceptible to discomfort.  My rule of thumb is to quit running and walk the balance of the time/distance when I start to become uncomfortable (from whatever cause - ragged breathing, side stitches, shin splints, etc) to the point where it affects my stride.  Basically, once I'm unable to remain in the "comfort zone" I start to compensate with muscles and joints that I really don't want to be straining, so I avoid straining them.  I also do a few weight exercises to strengthen the muscles so that the muscles take up the slack, not the joints.


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## Big Foot (2 Dec 2004)

Shin splints are often a result of hyper-pronation, which over-stretches the tendons in your legs when you run. To combat that, I would suggest one of two things, or both combined. First, try motion control shoes, such as NewBalance or whatever. They provide greater arch support and they also make it so your ankles don't roll around as much. The second option is some sort of insole, whether it be off the shelf or custom made, try everything and stick with what works. THe combination of custom insoles and motion control shoes have really helped me get painfree in running. Hope this helps.


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## zerhash (2 Dec 2004)

Big Foot said:
			
		

> ..First, try motion control shoes, such as NewBalance or whatever...



Just like to say i switched to new balance a while ago and they are a big difference from your typical shoe. Good all around shoe


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## adaccache (7 Dec 2004)

so I took a week off (was recommended right   )and went to mexico and got back last week on friday...

back to training, I had to get a membership at the gym since IMO it's way too cold to run outside now and boy oh boy the only thing I can say is treadmills are nowhere near running on the street I found...what a differance...the street tires me out a whole lot more...treadmills are a lot easier and feel...wrong

either way I guess begger's can't be choosers

but my knee pain is gone...the week off really helped...

I really would like to thank you all once again, and I will definitivally tone it down and go at a slower pace


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## putz (7 Dec 2004)

I agree that treadmills are easier than outdoor running.  I've been a runner for the last few years and during the winter I find that I am not as easily tired out when running on a treadmill.  A good way to change this (If you don't have access to an indoor track and your machine will let you do this) is to increase your incline on the machine or (in the case of my gym) put it on random terrain.  Its still not as good as running outside but can get it pretty close to.


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## adaccache (7 Dec 2004)

putz said:
			
		

> I agree that treadmills are easier than outdoor running.   I've been a runner for the last few years and during the winter I find that I am not as easily tired out when running on a treadmill.   A good way to change this (If you don't have access to an indoor track and your machine will let you do this) is to increase your incline on the machine or (in the case of my gym) put it on random terrain.   Its still not as good as running outside but can get it pretty close to.



ahh great Idea, I haden't even thought of that!  8)

I will give it a try tommorow when I go to the gym, Thanks!


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## Ghost (8 Dec 2004)

My new Nike runners are totaly awsome.

They have a good tread pattern that provides lots of traction and are very light and have a very soft sole which provides lots of cushioning when you run.

My knee's aren't the greatest from snowboarding but I don't get sore joints after a 2.4km run.


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## patrick666 (9 Dec 2004)

I usually stretched for 20-30min before I run and it seems to help with my joints pretty well. I also stretch the same amount after I finish running. While I was in the college track team, I pulled the iliotibial band in my left knee so I know what NOT, or lack thereof, stretching can do to you. It's probably one of the most important things you can do. Also try incorporating a physical fitness routine into your session, before I go running I do a set of sit-ups and push-ups after I stretch. The same when I return. 

A nutriontial eating habit will help in the long run as well. Eat your vegetables! =)

I despise and am disgusted by PEAS but I will chew them down for my own benefit.


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## Mischiefz (9 Dec 2004)

came across this article the other day and was wondering if anyone has tried these shoes out....been toying with the idea of picking them up

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/how2/article/0,20967,783917,00.html


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## quebecrunner (9 Dec 2004)

when i've started running, I've got also joint pain. I went to a sport physician ans they told me it was chondromalacia, an inflammation on the joint. One of the cause, is a debalance between muscles strenght, making the rotula to move inward or outward.   then, they give me exercise to reequilibrate the muscle strenght ans the pain left. 

Now, i've ran for 8 years and i'm still enjoying it. 
The meaning of the story: Go see a md specialized in sports, do strenght training and continue running, like everybody else told you. Do icing 3 time per day and take aspirin once in a while. 

You know, i'm surprise by the amount of people who's not listening to its body. When you have anormal pain that's coming back, like due to an exercise, go see a doctor!!!!!    :


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