# Canada Needs A Leader Like This!(Prime Minister John Howard - Australia )



## Old Ranger (19 Mar 2008)

I received this as an email, not sure of the date it was spoken.

Canada Needs A Leader Like This!   
  

  
Prime Minister John Howard - Australia 
  
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. 
  
Separately, PM Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. 

His Quote: 

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. I support that surge and will not let the majority of my people down.  I will not stand idly or 'politically correct' by while groups within my country plan our demise'   
  
' This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'. 
  
' We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!' 
  
' Most Australians believe in God whether they be Christian or Jew; Muslim, Shintu or Hindu. This idea is not some right wing, political push, but a fact, because Australian men and women, on basic principles, founded this to be a nation 'under God', and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools so we can teach our children the ways of our forefathers. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture .  We fly our flag and speak of God proudly.  We do not cower in back rooms or basements planning to injure or kill those who do' 
  
' We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.' 
  
' This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Religious beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ' THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
' We accept and encourage dissention but abhor and will not allow radicalism and terrorism'   
  
' If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.' 

  
Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, Canadian and American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths.


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## ark (19 Mar 2008)

Old Ranger said:
			
		

> I received this as an email



You should have been a little suspicious right there especially when things are too good to be true. 

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thisisamerica.asp

Check this link for the origin and variations of this chain letter.


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## AJFitzpatrick (19 Mar 2008)

John Howard hasn't been the prime minister of Australia since November. He also hasn't been in parliament since then either.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2935404.ece


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## lone bugler (19 Mar 2008)

wow no wonder he hasn't been in parliament since November, someone with that kind of view as the PM of Australia scares me.


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## Old Ranger (19 Mar 2008)

ark said:
			
		

> You should have been a little suspicious right there especially when things are too good to be true.



Should have known...Thanks....but it was nice to dream a little dream.


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## Celticgirl (19 Mar 2008)

lone bugler said:
			
		

> wow no wonder he hasn't been in parliament since November, someone with that kind of view as the PM of Australia scares me.



I find that kind of xenophobia scary, too. In Australia, as in Canada, if you are not an aboriginal then you are an immigrant. I guess we should tell all those protesters - excluding the native Canadians - that if they don't like the way we do things in Canada, they can LEAVE. Hmm? No?

I've seen several different versions of this "speech", so I am dubious of its validity. (Snopes seems to think it's hogwash and who am I to argue with Snopes?) I also doubt very much that a PM from any first world country would spew such a rant in public. At least, I would hope not.


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## slowmode (19 Mar 2008)

Well as a Muslim born in canada  I can tell you that from my view I say those musilms who move here to Canada and want to live under there law should get out. You come here to live under the Laws of Canada. This country has went though a lot of work to become independent and the least you can do is come and respect its laws by unifying with it. 

Now nothings wrong with showing your culture such as attending the mosque, or even doing the things you do in your culture. But the fact of the matter is the Law and Order of the land precedes that of individual needs. What i'm trying to get at is there is no reason why Muslims cant move to a country and learn to live like everyone else in that country. My parents did it and were living here great. But hey im just one person setting my opinion.


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## Celticgirl (19 Mar 2008)

Laws and customs are not the same thing, and I suspect some people get the two confused. Canada's laws are not going to suddenly reflect those of Islam, especially if human rights will be adversely affected. I've taught many muslim students over the past several years - students from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, Bangladesh, Turkey, etc. They didn't seem to have a problem following Canada's laws while also maintaining their own customs and following their religion. I think an 'if you don't like it, get out' attitude sends the wrong message. We should be educating all people, those who were born here as well as those who have migrated here or who are guests here (working visa, student visa, tourist visa), on how to integrate diverse cultures while still respecting the laws of the land.


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## 2 Cdo (20 Mar 2008)

lone bugler said:
			
		

> wow no wonder he hasn't been in parliament since November, someone with that kind of view as the PM of Australia scares me.



Actually, if it was true, I find it refreshing. Unfortunately, we don't have any political leaders who will publicly state what a great number of people think. Immigrants should adapt to Canada, not Canadians to immigrants.


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## Old Ranger (20 Mar 2008)

slowmode said:
			
		

> But hey I'm just one person setting my opinion.



*Your opinion is valid and appreciated!*
My Father in Law came over from Egypt with $50 in his hand, saw snow for the first time and built a successful company.
He brought over the rest of his family and they are doing well.
Adapted to Canada, and kept allot of their customs...mostly feed that Son-in-law 

They are Catholics, I am not. 
They are short, I am not.
They are fluent in many languages, me not so much.
We are all appalled by terrorist actions.
We all laugh together and I am a better person being part of their family.

Cheers,
Ben


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## Mohtashim (20 Mar 2008)

I do agree with 2 Cdo, our politician  are too busy teaching Canadians multiculture, They forgot to teach new immigrants about Canadian culture.


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## slowmode (20 Mar 2008)

Old Ranger said:
			
		

> *Your opinion is valid and appreciated!*
> My Father in Law came over from Egypt with $50 in his hand, saw snow for the first time and built a successful company.
> He brought over the rest of his family and they are doing well.
> Adapted to Canada, and kept allot of their customs...mostly feed that Son-in-law
> ...



Exactly what I was thinking, thanks for your comment and appreciation


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## Panzer Grenadier (21 Mar 2008)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Actually, if it was true, I find it refreshing. Unfortunately, we don't have any political leaders who will publicly state what a great number of people think. Immigrants should adapt to Canada, not Canadians to immigrants.



Not going to happen with the multicultural nature that Canada is.


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## Celticgirl (21 Mar 2008)

Panzer Grenadier said:
			
		

> Not going to happen with the multicultural nature that Canada is.



It's been a multicultural country from its inception (thanks to our European immigrant ancestors and subsequent ancestors from all parts of the globe). This country has been constantly evolving. Why do some act as though we have an ingrained and relatively static culture like those of China or Saudi Arabia? Our diversity is the very thing that defines us. Instead of asking why we should change, perhaps ask why we would or should suddenly STOP changing?  Some food for thought.


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## 2 Cdo (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> It's been a multicultural country from its inception (thanks to our European immigrant ancestors and subsequent ancestors from all parts of the globe). This country has been constantly evolving. Why do some act as though we have an ingrained and relatively static culture like those of China or Saudi Arabia? Our diversity is the very thing that defines us. Instead of asking why we should change, perhaps ask why we would or should suddenly STOP changing?  Some food for thought.



Nobodies stating to stop changing or evolving,but immigrants come to this country for it's advantages. To ask us to modify our standards to accomodate them is ridiculous. If immigrants want us to change Canada into a mirror image of where they came from then maybe they should return there. I liken it to, if I walk into your house and start telling you how to run your house, what foods to eat, how to worship (or not) you would quickly toss my ass out the front door. It's the same thing just on a larger scale.


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## Infanteer (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> In Australia, as in Canada, if you are not an aboriginal then you are an immigrant.



Actually, the Natives are immigrants as well - documented research indicates 3 successive waves of peoples moved over the Bering Sea icebridge.  Was it a long time ago?  Sure.  Time immemorial.  Nope.  How does one arbitrary date trump another in terms of who is a local and who is a foreigner from another place?

I was born in Canada and have lived here all my life.  How am I an immigrant?  Where did I immigrate from?  Where would you deport me to?

Your statement doesn't work.  Back to the logic drawing board.


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## Celticgirl (21 Mar 2008)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Actually, the Natives are immigrants as well - documented research indicates 3 successive waves of peoples moved over the Bering Sea icebridge.  Was it a long time ago?  Sure.  Time immemorial.  Nope.  How does one arbitrary date trump another in terms of who is a local and who is a foreigner from another place?
> 
> I was born in Canada and have lived here all my life.  How am I an immigrant?  Where did I immigrate from?  Where would you deport me to?
> 
> Your statement doesn't work.  Back to the logic drawing board.



The fact that you don't follow my logic does not make my statements illogical.   My point is that Canada has evolved over many years and through several generations of immigrants and continues to evolve. I'm not saying our laws should change to suit the newer crop of immigrants. Not at all. However, I see people use this 'if you don't like it here then leave' sentiment as a way to subtly show their bigotry. That's just my opinion, and you don't have to agree. There are lots of countries I would not live in precisely because they would not accept _my _ culture and lifestyle. Can you picture a born and bred Canadian female like myself living in Iran, for example? I would have to make a lot of lifestyle changes as well as give up some of the rights and freedoms I enjoy here in Canada. No thanks. I choose to believe that Canada is more evolved than many other parts of the world, and part of that evolution is the acceptance of other beliefs and customs. Accepting them doesn't mean changing your own. If there are immigrants who are imposing their way of life on others to the extent that they are telling nationals that we have to change our laws and customs, then there is a problem. I personally have not seen this. In fact, I see the government trying to make changes to be politically correct (like taking down public Christmas trees or calling them Holiday trees) that even the immigrants themselves don't want and never asked for.


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## Infanteer (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> The fact that you don't follow my logic does not make my statements illogical.



Yes it does.

You said I'm an immigrant.  I am not.  Your statement and your reasoning are illogical.

As for the rest of your post - huh?


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## Celticgirl (21 Mar 2008)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Yes it does.
> 
> You said I'm an immigrant.  I am not.  Your statement and your reasoning are illogical.
> 
> As for the rest of your post - huh?



We don't see eye-to-eye on this, obviously (and you don't seem to get what I'm saying), but that's okay. To each his/her own.


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> ... There are lots of countries I would not live in precisely because they would not accept _my _ culture and lifestyle. Can you picture a born and bred Canadian female like myself living in Iran, for example? I would have to make a lot of lifestyle changes as well as give up some of the rights and freedoms I enjoy here in Canada. No thanks....



- And we expect no less of those who would come to Canada.  We have a duty to be welcoming.  We do not have a duty to be WEAK.  Priority must go to those immigrants and refugees who can most seemleesly and economically integrate into the Canadian mosaic.  We are NOT a rest area for foreign war criminals and thugs posing as refugees.


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## Celticgirl (21 Mar 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - And we expect no less of those who would come to Canada.  We have a duty to be welcoming.  We do not have a duty to be WEAK.  Priority must go to those immigrants and refugees who can most seemleesly and economically integrate into the Canadian mosaic.  We are NOT a rest area for foreign war criminals and thugs posing as refugees.



I agree completely.

The original rant, however, made no mention of war criminals or refugees.


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## the 48th regulator (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> However, I see people use this 'if you don't like it here then leave' sentiment as a way to subtly show their bigotry. That's just my opinion, and you don't have to agree.





			
				Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Can you picture a born and bred Canadian female like myself living in Iran, for example? I would have to make a lot of lifestyle changes as well as give up some of the rights and freedoms I enjoy here in Canada. No thanks. I choose to believe that Canada is more evolved than many other parts of the world, and part of that evolution is the acceptance of other beliefs and customs.



You must admit the conundrum with your post is that you counter your argument with your own post.  Why is it you feel that Canada is culturally more advanced than that of Iran, considering that area of the world has been populated for a longer period than all of North America combined.

dileas

tess


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## Infanteer (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> We don't see eye-to-eye on this, obviously (and you don't seem to get what I'm saying), but that's okay. To each his/her own.



Sure - you never responded to my question.  Have a nice day.


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> You must admit the conundrum with your post is that you counter your argument with your own post.  Why is it you feel that Canada is culturally more advanced than that of Iran, considering that area of the world has been populated for a longer period than all of North America combined.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



- Most countries who have either deliberately or through an accident of history remained a racial and cultural entity as well as a nationalistic one view our western countries as mongrel states composed of the detritus of many nations.  To them, we have watered down any cultural authority we once had and now have no historical RIGHT to assume the mantel of civilization - democracy or not.  They view our 'quaint' rights-based constitutions as national suicide pacts, and use them against us.

- The jury is still out on this one.


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## davidk (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl - if you were born here, you're not an immigrant. I may be the descendant of immigrants, but if you were to try to deport me, would you send an arm to Russia, a leg to Poland and my head to Britain? It just doesn't work...


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## Celticgirl (21 Mar 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> You must admit the conundrum with your post is that you counter your argument with your own post.  Why is it you feel that Canada is culturally more advanced than that of Iran, considering that area of the world has been populated for a longer period than all of North America combined.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Hi Tess. I said more evolved, not more advanced. By that I mean that we are (I think) generally more accepting of other cultures and their beliefs and customs. An Iranian woman in Canada can wear her hijab here, or she can choose to forgo her custom and act on her right as a Canadian not to wear any type of headdress. A Canadian woman in Iran, however, must wear a hijab or something to cover her head. There's no choice in the matter. There is no acceptance of the Canadian woman's culture. This is where I see us as a more evolved nation, but not necessarily more advanced. Having lived in Asia, I would say some Asian countries are more advanced than we are in certain areas.


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## Celticgirl (21 Mar 2008)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Sure - you never responded to my question.  Have a nice day.



I'm sorry. Which question? (I thought they were all rhetorical.  )


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## Celticgirl (21 Mar 2008)

HighlandIslander said:
			
		

> Celticgirl - if you were born here, you're not an immigrant. I may be the descendant of immigrants, but if you were to try to deport me, would you send an arm to Russia, a leg to Poland and my head to Britain? It just doesn't work...



You're right (you = plural). I should have said descendants of immigrants. I was trying to show the point that Canadian laws, customs, and what we think of as our 'culture' (which, honestly, is rather difficult to define) have changed over the years through many generations of immigrants. You are right, though. Those of us who were born here are not "immigrants". I retract that part of my comments. 

Addendum: I should post controversial statements more often. I am popular today.  (kidding)


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## the 48th regulator (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Hi Tess. I said more evolved, not more advanced. By that I mean that we are (I think) generally more accepting of other cultures and their beliefs and customs. An Iranian woman in Canada can wear her hijab here, or she can choose to forgo her custom and act on her right as a Canadian not to wear any type of headdress. A Canadian woman in Iran, however, must wear a hijab or something to cover her head. There's no choice in the matter. There is no acceptance of the Canadian woman's culture. This is where I see us as a more evolved nation, but not necessarily more advanced. Having lived in Asia, I would say some Asian countries are more advanced than we are in certain areas.



So therefore, by your argument, we should accept and integrate the ideology that proscribes a woman from removing her Hijab and the penalties associated based on say, Iran's culture. 

They do emigrate here from Iran.

dileas

tess


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> ... and what we think of as our 'culture' (which, honestly, is rather difficult to define) have changed over the years through many generations of immigrants....



- This raises an interesting point.  Since it is the purview of governments to plan for issues of national survival, would it not be in their best interests to strategically direct the flow of immigration/refugees to reinforce the successful cultures which allowed the flowering of democracy and freedom, and restrict the influence of those who have been developed/damaged by less enlightened cultures?


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## Infanteer (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I'm sorry. Which question? (I thought they were all rhetorical.  )



How about the ones in my first post with the question marks?


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## Celticgirl (21 Mar 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> So therefore, by your argument, we should accept and integrate the ideology that proscribes a woman from removing her Hijab and the penalties associated based on say, Iran's culture.
> 
> They do emigrate here from Iran.
> 
> ...



Oh my goodness, no. That is not at all what I am saying. Did you get that from my post? I must not be as articulate as I had thought.    I am trying to say that it is a good thing that Canada accepts the cultural differences of its immigrants (insofar as these differences don't infringe on the rights of other Canadians, as my hijab example was intended to demonstrate). We should _not_ adopt Iran's ideology. 

Perhaps I should raise my white flag now and bow out of this thread. I don't think I am making myself understood.  ???


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> ...Perhaps I should raise my white flag now and bow out of this thread. I don't think I am making myself understood.  ???



- Your doing fine.  We're a tough audience.


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## sgf (21 Mar 2008)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Nobodies stating to stop changing or evolving,but immigrants come to this country for it's advantages. To ask us to modify our standards to accomodate them is ridiculous. If immigrants want us to change Canada into a mirror image of where they came from then maybe they should return there. I liken it to, if I walk into your house and start telling you how to run your house, what foods to eat, how to worship (or not) you would quickly toss my *** out the front door. It's the same thing just on a larger scale.



I am curious, how have immigrants asked us to change Canada?


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## davidk (21 Mar 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - This raises an interesting point.  Since it is the purview of governments to plan for issues of national survival, would it not be in their best interests to strategically direct the flow of immigration/refugees to reinforce the successful cultures which allowed the flowering of democracy and freedom, and restrict the influence of those who have been developed/damaged by less enlightened cultures?


TCBF, I think that's a very dangerous suggestion. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for democracy and freedom, but restricting immigration from places that don't share our values means that individuals trying to escape repressive, authoritarian rule would not be welcome. Just because lots of Iranians living in Iran think women should wear a Hijab doesn't mean that most Iranians coming to Canada share that view.


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

- Agreed, and those who come from places like that and agree with us make superb Canadians.  My point is that it we should control who we draw from.  The quotas should be put back to allow immigration of the easily assimilated.  Otherwise, we are merely creating a large unassimilated urban underclass of young offenders.  Truly, a lost generation.  (Hint: I live in Edmonton).


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## the 48th regulator (21 Mar 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> I am curious, how have immigrants asked us to change Canada?



http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1126472943217_26/?hub=TopStories

The fundamental laws.

dileas

tess


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1126472943217_26/?hub=TopStories
> 
> The fundamental laws.
> 
> ...



- Maybe they have a point.  I am not entirely unsympathetic to their cause.


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## davidk (21 Mar 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - Agreed, and those who come from places like that and agree with us make superb Canadians.  My point is that it we should control who we draw from.  The quotas should be put back to allow immigration of the easily assimilated.  Otherwise, we are merely creating a large unassimilated urban underclass of young offenders.  Truly, a lost generation.  (Hint: I live in Edmonton).



But wouldn't doing so turn the immigration process into even more of a complicated mess? I can see screening applicants going two ways - first, the way the TSA deals with carry-on luggage: going way overboard on what's allowed (i.e. turned away for being a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of someone on some watch list) or, the second, far more likely way - a 30 page questionnaire filled with inquiries like "Do you approve of democracy? []Yes/[]No" that's fed into a machine which evaluates how much you conform to set parameters.

In general, I don't like the idea of quotas. Granted the current immigration system could use an overhaul, but placing restrictions on immigration based on the likelihood of assimilation seems a bit far-fetched. There have been many groups that didn't easily assimilate to Canada that haven't caused problems - look at the Jews of Montreal at the end of the 19th- to the middle of the 20th century. They kept to themselves, had their own religious practices, dietary restrictions, cultural institutions, views on government etc. Did they cause problems? No. They brought us smoked meat and bagels, and we are grateful.

(Edit: Just so everyone knows I'm not oversimplifying the contributions made by Jews to Canadian society, I'm well aware that the above two examples are among the more trivial ones, however it's nearly dinner time and I'm hungry   )


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

- What if I told you that it was easier for a Mandarin speaking Chinese rice farmer to get into Canada as an immigrant than an English speaking rig worker from Oklahoma, would you think the system neads rebalancing?

- Right now we HAVE restrictions: On the countries that BUILT Canada to start with!


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## Yrys (21 Mar 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I said more evolved, not more advanced. By that I mean that we are (I think) generally more accepting of other cultures and their beliefs and customs.



Technically (anthropologically) speaking, we can't be more evolve then Iran. Iran was populate maybe around the same time as Canada (?), 
if we are speaking of the natives Canadians. However, Canada today, consist mostly of immigrants and theirs descendant that arrive in the last 4 century.
Canada, in 4oo years, can't be more "evolve" then a country that has  4 millennium behind it. Evolution is affair of time, it doesn't goes in 1 direction or another.

You (and I) can say that we have more freedom here, and that we prefer to live here. We can also say that it is better here, but that is 
a western civilisation "anthropomorphism". I prefer it here, I am more use to it, but whenever I am tempt to say it is overall better then another place,
I know that, being part of one of the point reference of comparison, I'm bias.


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## davidk (21 Mar 2008)

Like I said, I do think the immigration system needs work. A lot of work, really. And I'm in complete agreement with your points, TCBF; the fact that the rig worker from Oklahoma would have more problems getting in than the Chinese rice farmer indicates that something is seriously wrong. But that's not to say that the Chinese gentleman _and_ the American should not both be allowed to live here - though in the case of the rice farmer, I'm not sure how much success he'd have finding work in his chosen field.


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

- I would welcome them both with open arms.

- Fact is, our system is broken and the elements of some cultures take advantage of it.  We should not be granting citizenship to people who want it only to return to their homelands and use it as a life jacket or get out of jail free card.

- The ESL services our urban schools have to provide are crippling are over-burdened inner city school systems.  The kids are dropping out and joining gangs.


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## davidk (21 Mar 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - I would welcome them both with open arms.
> 
> - Fact is, our system is broken and the elements of some cultures take advantage of it.  We should not be granting citizenship to people who want it only to return to their homelands and use it as a life jacket or get out of jail free card.
> 
> - The ESL services our urban schools have to provide are crippling are over-burdened inner city school systems.  The kids are dropping out and joining gangs.



Yes, the system is broken. However, while I agree that people who wish to 'use' Canada as opposed to live in Canada should be turned back, we cannot approach this on a cultural basis. Would it be unfair to concede that just as when an Iranian calls for sharia law in Canada, they aren't the only one 'using' Canada. This sort of thing happens with people from all over the world: Rwandans living here trying to avoid genocide charges back home (like Leon Mugesera)...even our NATO ally Germany has one of theirs over here trying his best to tie himself up in the legal system and the Airbus affair so he doesn't have to face the heat over the CDU contributions scandal...


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## TCBF (21 Mar 2008)

- Agreed.  We need to restore some balance, not go flange-ing off in a reactionary manner.  However, if the need now - on the eve of a recession - is well trained families who will integrate well into the new economy, I think our 'points' system needs rebalancing. A former example:

"I think a stalwart peasant in a sheep-skin coat, born on the soil, whose forefathers have been farmers for ten generations, with a stout wife and a half-dozen children is good quality". 

- Clifford Sifton, 1922.

http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/encyclopedia/CliffordSifton-CanadianHistory.htm

Mr Sifton's quote was made long after he opened up immigration to colonize the prairies with largely East European stock.  A concept that shocked the Anglo-French elites of central Canada.

But it worked and worked well.


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## davidk (21 Mar 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> "I think a stalwart peasant in a sheep-skin coat, born on the soil, whose forefathers have been farmers for ten generations, with a stout wife and a half-dozen children is good quality".
> 
> - Clifford Sifton, 1922.
> 
> http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/encyclopedia/CliffordSifton-CanadianHistory.htm



No argument there - Canadian immigration policymakers should take a long, hard look at that.

Hey, Claude Belanger from Marianopolis! I took his Canadian history class in '05...


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## sgf (21 Mar 2008)

Well  when my ancestors came to Canada they certainly wanted to impose their standards, customs, and laws on the country as I am sure many of your ancestors did. Some changes were good and some were tragic. But they certainly did impose changes on the country.I know many immigrants who have good jobs, work hard, pay taxes, are police officers, and the list goes on. I think that some people who have had the pleasure of having their traditions followed for centuries are suddenly a bit uncomfortable if any changes are suggested. Doesnt mean that ALL change is wrong. Is the problem here just that its the Muslim culture that wants to make changes?


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## the 48th regulator (21 Mar 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> Well  when my ancestors came to Canada they certainly wanted to impose their standards, customs, and laws on the country as I am sure many of your ancestors did. Some changes were good and some were tragic. But they certainly did impose changes on the country.I know many immigrants who have good jobs, work hard, pay taxes, are police officers, and the list goes on. I think that some people who have had the pleasure of having their traditions followed for centuries are suddenly a bit uncomfortable if any changes are suggested. Doesnt mean that ALL change is wrong. Is the problem here just that its the Muslim culture that wants to make changes?



Any culture.

Explain any change that has happened that did not derive from "evolution" ?

dileas

tess


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## sgf (21 Mar 2008)

Glad to hear that its any culture that we are discussing here, and not just one. As for evoluton, lets hope we all continue to do that.. !!


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## Yrys (21 Mar 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> As for evoluton, lets hope we all continue to do that.. !!



How could we not ?


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## TCBF (22 Mar 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> Glad to hear that its any culture that we are discussing here, and not just one. As for evoluton, lets hope we all continue to do that.. !!



- Are you saying we are all descended from monkeys?  That's crazy talk.

op:


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## aesop081 (22 Mar 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> I am curious, how have immigrants asked us to change Canada?



Come and live in lower-mainland BC for a while and take a good look around. Last few "honour killings" sure sparked a good debate about all this.


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## 1feral1 (22 Mar 2008)

lone bugler said:
			
		

> wow no wonder he hasn't been in parliament since November, someone with that kind of view as the PM of Australia scares me.



Really. Hummm, he has lasted since 1996! The election was in November, so any that lost their seats on both sides have not been in Parliment  :.

Pro-Defence, and some of that email is correct, but other parts are hyped up.

He was the best PM this country had seen in post WW2 times, and what did him in was AWA's (work agreement contracts) and the loss of rights for mainstreamers from these AWA's.

His policies on assylum seekers literally curbed the invasion of them. We'll see what the new 'limpwristed' left will do, as they are very touchy'feely-gay about most things, stereotypical of leftist mentality.

I liked him and voted for him, so before you gob off with silly comments, how about a bit of research, because its people with you mentality who SCARE me! 

Howard did not lose by that much, it was the preferences which did him in.


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## sgf (22 Mar 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Come and live in lower-mainland BC for a while and take a good look around. Last few "honour killings" sure sparked a good debate about all this.



I am not disputing the fact that there can be a lot of issues and problems with immigrants, but for the most part they are hard working family people, who come to Canada for a better life, to work, pay taxes, just like the rest of us. There are more than a few natural born Canadians who arent exactly the cream of the crop either. My way of life has not been changed by any immigrant, I am still able to celebrate Christmas and Easter, go to work and church, collected my pension, walk the streets. Has yours been changed?


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## 2 Cdo (22 Mar 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1126472943217_26/?hub=TopStories
> 
> The fundamental laws.
> 
> ...



Thanks tess.
How about this as well,



> Come and live in lower-mainland BC for a while and take a good look around. Last few "honour killings" sure sparked a good debate about all this.





> I am not disputing the fact that there can be a lot of issues and problems with immigrants, but for the most part they are hard working family people, who come to Canada for a better life, to work, pay taxes, just like the rest of us. There are more than a few natural born Canadians who arent exactly the cream of the crop either.



No argument there, for most do assimilate quite well. It's the vocal minority who wish to bring in Sharia Law and the removal of the word Christmas from our schools and public life. To even remotely think that Canada was founded on anything other than Judea-Christian beliefs and customs is dishonest, but is to be expected from the "enlightened" people in this country.


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## AJFitzpatrick (22 Mar 2008)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> .... It's the vocal minority who wish to bring in Sharia Law and the removal of the word Christmas from our schools and public life.



I don't think you can blame attempts to secularize Christmas on recent immigrants, that falls on the shoulders of "enlightened" Canadians.


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## 2 Cdo (22 Mar 2008)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> I don't think you can blame attempts to secularize Christmas on recent immigrants, that falls on the shoulders of "enlightened" Canadians.



I blame both the "enlightened" and the recent vocal immigrants who wish for Canadians to change their ways versus them adapting to our society.


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## guns_and_roses (27 Mar 2008)

2 Cdo said:
			
		

> Actually, if it was true, I find it refreshing. Unfortunately, we don't have any political leaders who will publicly state what a great number of people think. Immigrants should adapt to Canada, not Canadians to immigrants.



Exactly, if you move to a country then you should change. In some parts of Canada, Christmas trees have become offensive. It's all Trudeau's fault., the way Canadas immigration is today, and the multicultural BS in this once European cultural country. European Canadians are the real Canadians. I'm not being racist either as I have plenty non-white friends.


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 Mar 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> Exactly, if you move to a country then you should change. In some parts of Canada, Christmas trees have become offensive. It's all Trudeas fault.



How is it Trudeaus fault? Please provide a source that puts the blame on PETs shoulders....


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## guns_and_roses (27 Mar 2008)

He changed our immigration to be open to just about anybody, he took away that(not sure the term) thing where people from Britain could move here very easily, making our country TOO multicultural. I'm for immigration from anywhere but Asia. Only Asians with very special qualifications should be allowed to move here. I can't stand when they complain about us not being understanding about there culture. If you want to move here you should be willing to COMPLETLY adapt to our culture.


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## Yrys (27 Mar 2008)

ANY prime minister since P.E.T. could have change the laws, as minister of immigration.

Any group could have lobby for change, as any citizen. What did you do to make those laws nearer what you want ?


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## Ex-Dragoon (27 Mar 2008)

Yrys said:
			
		

> ANY prime minister since P.E.T. could have change the laws, as minister of immigration.
> 
> Any group could have lobby for change, as any citizen. What did you do to make those laws nearer what you want ?



Agreed...I wonder if you have contacted your MP regarding your concerns civvy?


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## guns_and_roses (27 Mar 2008)

Thats because every politician since is to afraid to do anything about it, and i'm only 17 so they would'nt do anything about it dragoon.


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## dangerboy (27 Mar 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> He changed our immigration to be open to just about anybody, he took away that(not sure the term) thing where people from Britain could move here very easily, making our country TOO multicultural. I



How does allowing pers from Britain coming to Canada make us too multicultural when Canada was founded by Britain and France?


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## Yrys (28 Mar 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> and i'm only 17 so they would'nt do anything about it dragoon.



Being 17 means that you are not major, doesn't means that you can't do anything.
Just think of the young guy in the U.S. that start a project to make wells in Africa, at around 12 ...
He made a few thousands by now ...


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## Sythen (28 Mar 2008)

Canadian politicians are gutless, plain and simple. That's why it hasn't changed. And to compare a boy who is doing something no one can oppose, like building wells in Africa to someone who would want to implement something as controversial as immigration reform is foolish. 

To say Canada has always been multicultural is BS.. When it comes down to it, what are the real cultural differences between European countries? Aside from the language you speak, its pretty much all the same.. (Yes I do realize there are small things here and there, but the fact is, if they all spoke the same language you couldn't really tell one from the other)

Tell me, if you went into a largely non-European community, how much could they tell you about WW1 or WW2? Probably almost nothing. Yet it was during those wars that Canada really became Canada. I am not good enough with words, and its too late for me to go digging through my books, but there is one called 'Vimy' by Pierre Berton, and in it he explains how so many Europeans living in Canada went to war to protect their homelands when they were in danger, but by the end, almost every one of them would only call themselves Canadian. I wonder, if Canada had to go to war to protect say China (very unrealistic scenario I know, but humour me) and we needed an army on the same level in numbers of WW1, how many Chinese-Canadians would enlist without conscription? Now I personally know asians within the military, and they serve with honor and love this country. But they are the exception, not the rule. This country was built by Europeans. (yes they were all immigrants, but so similar to each other, once the language gap was overcome, they mixed extremely well with each other)  I'm gonna post a quote, I *think* I got it from Ruxted, but I am not 100% sure..

"Canada was created over centuries of hard work and effort despite the challenges of harsh climate, formidable distances and meagre population. From the settlers of New France to the builders of the CPR and the ‘March West’ by the newly formed North West Mounted Police, from the soldiers who fought in the Great Wars of the last century to Louis St Laurent setting the stage for Canada to emerge as a middle power, determined people carved a modern nation out of a hostile and uncompromising wilderness, protected their gains against predatory empires and struck out into the wider world to help create and sustain the international order that underpins much of our security and prosperity today. Their spiritual descendants move through the world today, some wearing their nation's uniform and others as workers and volunteers in NGOs, to bring Canada's values and good fortune to the less fortunate people of the world. This is a vision of Canadians as "people who build nations" and "people who save nations."

People say Canada has no culture, but anyone who truly considers them self a Canadian can't disagree with the above quote. This is Canada's culture. Its the Canada I want my children to grow up in. People say its the vocal minority who want things like Sharia Law and  other types of extremist things like that.. If that's true, great, but its impossible to get accurate figures on this, but I have lived in Toronto for a few years. Everyone brags its the most multicultural city in the world. Yet you can literally draw lines between where the different ethnic groups live. Its not multicultural. Its difficult to articulate my thoughts right now, but basically its a bunch of single cultural communities bordering each other and happen to be called the same name.

There is so much I want to say on this topic but its so late, and I am too tired to look up hard proof.. But I will end by using a line from another quote I really like:

"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value."

The blood and sweat and tears to make this country great have already been shed. Now, anyone who moves here, or it born here has it very easy. Don't try to wow me with some foolishness about how your father or grandfather came here and worked from rags to riches to make a life for his family. Everyone starts at the bottom here. When you were 16, did you start working a shit job, or did you start out at the top? Everyone needs to work for what they get. The problem is, some value the money itself instead of the country that provided them the opportunity to earn that place at the top.


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## armyvern (28 Mar 2008)

Sythen said:
			
		

> ...
> *Tell me, if you went into a largely non-European community, how much could they tell you about WW1 or WW2? Probably almost nothing.* Yet it was during those wars that Canada really became Canada...



Well, it WAS European and North American countries who overwhelmingly were involved in that war --

Let's see; how much could the average Canadian relate about the Indo-China War (1945-54)?? The Second Sino-Japanese War (31-45)?? Even the Falklands War?? 

Canada did indeed come of age with Vimy -- that _is_ why we know it. 

I'd argue that most Canadians couldn't relate to you the events/specific battles within _other_ wars that saw other nations come of age either.


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## Sythen (28 Mar 2008)

Tell me, Vern, what do those wars have to do at all with Canada, or Canadians in general? I will admit I know almost nothing about other countries wars, except maybe Britain and the US.. The point I am trying to make is even 3rd and 4th generation non-European immigrants know almost nothing about the sacrifices it took to make this country great. If I were to move to another country, you can be dam sure I'd do everything I could to learn its history and adapt myself to its culture.

EDIT: Ermm this sounds way more combative/defensive then I actually wanted it to.. Don't mean it to sound like my backs up, but need to get to bed, and can't think of how to reword it right now.


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## armyvern (28 Mar 2008)

Sythen said:
			
		

> Tell me, Vern, what do those wars have to do at all with Canada, or Canadians in general? I will admit I know almost nothing about other countries wars, except maybe Britain and the US.. The point I am trying to make is even 3rd and 4th generation non-European immigrants know almost nothing about the sacrifices it took to make this country great. If I were to move to another country, you can be dam sure I'd do everything I could to learn its history and adapt myself to its culture.
> 
> EDIT: Ermm this sounds way more combative/defensive then I actually wanted it to.. Don't mean it to sound like my backs up, but need to get to bed, and can't think of how to reword it right now.



Canadian School kids learn about our Canadian contributions to various war efforts in school. Immigrant children who are attending school also learn that. Do they learn enough?? Absolutely not, but then neither do non-immigrant school children. 

Immigrants who've attended our school system, learn what "Canadian" kids learn. It's not a simple matter of immigration or "ethnic communities", rather it's a lack of topic coverage (and yes, even coverage of "Canadian Wars & Battles" in history classes is sadly lacking) in our school curiculums. 

I brought it up because of the question you asked ... I'll edit my last post to make your quote that I was answering *bold* and yellow, just so you don't miss it.


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## Sythen (28 Mar 2008)

Though I totally agree with you about the subject not being given enough emphasis in schools, that is another topic completely.

And you are right, immigrant students are given the same lessons that non-immigrant children are.. This does not change the fact that the average immigrant/citizen on non-European descent knows FAR less about this countries history, accomplishments, and even present day politics. Its because people are WAY more willing to blame the government or school system for not teaching it, but when it comes down to it, as I grew up, I was taught not only in school, but by my mother and my grandparents. My father, and both of his parents were born in Scotland. I guess that makes me second generation? I never really think about myself that way, or as a Scottish-Canadian, I've been taught from day 1 that I am Canadian.

I am willing to bet that either of my grandparents know as much, if not more then entire communities of non-European immigrants in this country. In fact, I am willing to bet that the average European immigrant would be the same. They take no interest in our country, or our culture. There are exceptions to every rule, but in my experience, which is quite a bit, it is not as common as I would've thought, or as you may think now. They see Canada as a means to an end, and a lot of them don't even call themselves Canadian.

EDIT: Grammar is my friend.


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## medaid (1 Apr 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> He changed our immigration to be open to just about anybody, he took away that(not sure the term) thing where people from Britain could move here very easily, making our country TOO multicultural. I'm for immigration from anywhere but Asia. Only Asians with very special qualifications should be allowed to move here. I can't stand when they complain about us not being understanding about there culture. If you want to move here you should be willing to COMPLETLY adapt to our culture.



Ah, excellent points civvy. Very nicely put. Away with all Asians you say? Maybe you need to revisit your Social Studies hmm? Who built the Trans Canada Rail Way? Who decided to serve Canada in its efforts in both Asia and in Europe during the First and Second World War despite being discriminated against and taxed upon, and rounded up in our version of concentration camps? (Oh yes, ladies and gents lets not forget our dark days as a racist country and culture). 

You know who the people I'm talking about are Civvy? That's right! Asians! The same Asians you apparently think are a big problem here in Canada, well guess what? Asians have been here since before Canada even was CANADA as you know it today. Heres a bit of info for you since you're too ignorant to know the difference, and obviously didn't bother to pay attention in school.

Chinese Canadians have been here since 1788. Many participated in the building of the Trans Canada Railway. During the First and Second World Wars Chinese soldiers and airmen helped battle abroad and on the home front, defending the coast from enemy ships. Especially during WWII an entire Special Operations Unit was formed comprised of almost entirely Chinese soldiers, whose main role is to parachute into Asia, Burma, Philippines, China and so forth to train guerrilla forces against the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy. Guess what guys the first Canadian SpecOps unit other then the Devil's Brigade was almost entirely made up of Chinese personnel. Chinese population was segregated and discriminated from the very beginning. The first piece of Anti-Narcotics Legislation or the Opium Act was created to target the Chinese population, to shut down supposed opium dens and to have them removed from the work force so the Caucasian residents and laborers could have work to do. The Chinese population moved on and endeavored to serve and help in the bettering of Canada. 

The first Japanese Canadians have been here since 1877. During the Second World War they were treated like enemies of the state rounded up and imprisoned in concentration camps. Their properties seized and given away. Where I live currently here on the West Coast an entire village of Japanese Canadians were taken away. All of them. When the war ended they came back to find Caucasians, yup you got it, White folks living in their homes running their businesses and the government stripped everything from them. Every single penny, not a thing was left. They moved on and endeavored. 

So, how many people here on this forum knew about those little facts that I just listed? You say you can't stand when they complain about "us" Canadians not being able to understand their culture, well here's a heads up for you, so do Indians, so do Italians, so do Muslims, so do Natives, so do... need me to go on? 

What do you know about Asian culture? What do you know about Chinese, Japanese, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Indian or any other cultures? Come on civvy, what do you know? You know what you know? You know SFA. 

What do you mean they should adapt to OUR culture? Who's WE? Need I remind you that Canada is made up of a majority of immigrants. You yourself are an immigrant. The only true 'Canadians' are the Natives, let's NOT forget that. Let YOU not forget that. By your argument we should give all the land back to the Natives and adopt their culture, because that is TRUE Canadian culture. Their way is the way because it's been established for generations before the Caucasian population EVER arrived here. You want to know something else Civvy? They're Asians too. 

Your argument of adapting to "our culture" is flawed since the Asian culture is part of our culture. Just like the French culture, the Acadian culture, the Native culture and everyone else that lives, works and contributes to our society and our culture. 

Since you're only 17 and not really contributing to "our" culture anyways, maybe you should get the hell out of Canada and come back when you're more productive, or more skilled at doing things other then shooting your mouth off? I, as a Canadian sure don't want someone such as yourself with no productivity to be living off of my dollars and hard earned money.


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## medaid (1 Apr 2008)

Sythen said:
			
		

> Though I totally agree with you about the subject not being given enough emphasis in schools, that is another topic completely.
> 
> And you are right, immigrant students are given the same lessons that non-immigrant children are.. This does not change the fact that the average immigrant/citizen on non-European descent knows FAR less about this countries history, accomplishments, and even present day politics. Its because people are WAY more willing to blame the government or school system for not teaching it, but when it comes down to it, as I grew up, I was taught not only in school, but by my mother and my grandparents. My father, and both of his parents were born in Scotland. I guess that makes me second generation? I never really think about myself that way, or as a Scottish-Canadian, I've been taught from day 1 that I am Canadian.
> 
> ...



Thanks for insulting almost every immigrant servicemen and women in the CF. We see Canada as a means to an end eh? We don't call ourselves Canadian huh? Well, my goodness, I wonder what your grandparents thought when they came over, did they not see Canada as a means to an end? A means to a new life? Give me a freaking break! Who do you think you are? You are an immigrant, I don't give a damn if you think you know more about Canadian history then the immigrants do, does that make you any more Canadian? Would you like a gold star? Would you like to give all immigrants who don't know allot about Canada some sort of identification mark? Maybe after they take an exam perhaps? 

Canadian children know less about Canada then anyone else, their peers whether it be immigrant peers or not. I can ask any middle aged man or woman right now, or even people YOUR parents age and they'll have no freaking clue what important events shaped Canada or why Canada is the way they are today. Please, get off your high horse. I can go out on the street right now and ask 10 people what Vimy, Ortona, Paschendale or who wrote In Flanders Fields. 

Don't give me the BS about 3rd or 4th generation immigrants, or even immigrants today not being able to appreciate the sacrifices. Who do you think are defacing the monuments huh? It was Canadian kids eh? White Canadian kids? Since you want to be so cultural and racial about it. I thank a Veteran every time I meet one. I go as far as saying thank you to the drivers of a car with a Veterans' plate on it. The responses have always been one of kind thank you and some of them tears when I asked where they had served, how long and with what regiments. I go as far as thanking them for their service so I could have served. 

You don't know about the other cultures what you see and spout are what misinformed people like you exchange amongst yourselves. In case you didn't notice one of the soldiers who past away in the Box was Asian, a minority according to you, and by definition should not know about what shaped the Canadian culture or the history of the CF. His family being here was a means to an end for him to be killed while serving honorably with the CF. 

You're full of it. Just stop talking now.


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## S.Stewart (1 Apr 2008)

So Civvy, let me get this straight, just cause I am a little confused being a first generation Canadian and all. Following your posts, you seem to have an issue with immigration which is fine, we all entitled to our opinion. The flaw that pops up in your statements and so called arguments, are not targeted at those who immigrate in general, but rather those who are not white. 

My father was not born in this Country. He was born in Ireland, his parents in Scotland. He also speaks two languages Gaelic, and English. I noted Gaelic first, because this is more often than not the language that my family will address each other first in. While I was born here, and while I am white, much of my morale, speech patterns, religious views, and customs are deep rooted in Ireland. 

I am disgusted by the fact, that you somehow believe that people who are born in this Country have better morals, and understanding of the Canadian way of life. Fact I find it to be the complete opposite, with most cultures, white or otherwise. If anything most appreciate it more, because of what it took to get here. You in your head can not understand what it means to give up everything you own, and use all of your money, to move to a Country where you know no one, and did not grow up in. To those that come to our Country it's no different than me traveling to the Middle East, they find our customs unfamiliar as I would find theirs. Thus is why people cling to tradition, you call it not wanting to adapt, I call it holding on to a piece of who I am. 

I also speak Gaelic, it's a beautiful language, and I actually perfer speaking it over English. Does that make me ignorant to the Canadian way of life? Give me a break, go back to whichever hovel you crawled from. 

I think it is you who do not understand how our nation works, as there is a reason why when people obtain citizenship, that they still retain their previous identity (Irish-Canadian). We are not a melting pot, the object is not to turn everyone in this Nation into English speaking, white people. I suggest tracing back your roots, you will find that most Canadian families, did not start out here, most came from the United Kingdom, and if you trace back even further than that, you would be surprised where one can trace your roots. 

My advice, think before you speak, for your doing nothing but casting a shadow over your own background, makes me wonder where your parents, are from, and what kind of morals and traditions you were raised with.


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## guns_and_roses (3 Apr 2008)

I believe in european immigration thats it. Also the Natives are immigrants to there bud, if you didnt know they came from the Mongolia area. I dont care what you people think, diversity isnt good it only creates problems. You are the ignoront people to think different. None of them have any respect for our tradions and beliefs. Banning christmas trees because some idiots get offended COME ON!!!!! wake up.


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## Celticgirl (3 Apr 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> I believe in european immigration thats it. Also the Natives are immigrants to there bud, if you didnt know they came from the Mongolia area. I dont care what you people think, diversity isnt good it only creates problems. You are the ignoront people to think different. None of them have any respect for our tradions and beliefs. Banning christmas trees because some idiots get offended COME ON!!!!! wake up.



Wow.    :


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## medaid (3 Apr 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> I believe in european immigration thats it. Also the Natives are immigrants to there bud, if you didnt know they came from the Mongolia area. I dont care what you people think, diversity isnt good it only creates problems. You are the ignoront people to think different. None of them have any respect for our tradions and beliefs. Banning christmas trees because some idiots get offended COME ON!!!!! wake up.



Natives are immigrants to where "bud" ? To here? Sure, why not. But would they be considered immigrants if they were the FIRST to be here? I'm sorry where's Mongolia located? Oh yeah! Asia! Where did you think the Natives and their ancestors came from? That's right, Asia, as in China. If you have studied ANY anthropology you'd know that there are 2 distinct theories with regards to evolution of MAN as in Humans, as in Homo Sapient. One says they're from Africa the other says that both Africa and China had two distinctive species which evolved along side of each other for awhile. But thats beside the point.

You are one ignorant little kid you know that? Since you're so high and mighty, guess what? the European culture or even the British culture today is a mish mash of all different cultures. You think the Europeans invented gun powder? Pfft give up, the Chinese invented gun powder, and paper, and was the first to circumnavigate the world. Built the largest ships and established trade routes. Rome was NOT the center of commerce and trade for the world, it was China. All roads lead to CHINA. 

You're more then welcome to go off to some isolated island and live by yourself. If you do, you'll help breed out intolerant and ignorant people such as yourselves that have NO place in the modern world. Welcome to the new age. Keep that line of thinking up and soon you'll find yourself in a world of hurt once you graduate High School and get a job. Here's a newsflash for you, Asia is where much of Canada's commerce and trade goes to, almost catching up to if not overshadowing the trade between Canada and the US. 

Oh... and grow up. I'm an immigrant, and I have served Canada faithfully both as a CF and LE member for 5 years. I've been living in Canada for 15 years and let me tell you that I have allot of respect for OUR traditions and beliefs. That's right OURS. As in mine, and her, and his, and theirs but NOT yours. Get out of here you little troll, you've out lasted your welcome.


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## guns_and_roses (3 Apr 2008)

You have me all wrong and your just talking pure crap. I never said I hate Asians I said i hate Asians in Canada. Why they come here instead of a different asian country like Japan to start a new life. Canada is a white country and should remain that, but im not getting banned over what I believe, but I have the right to think what I want. If you want to move here you better be willing to adapt to our society, not us to yours.


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## midgetcop (3 Apr 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> I believe in european immigration thats it. Also the Natives are immigrants to there bud, if you didnt know they came from the Mongolia area. I dont care what you people think, diversity isnt good it only creates problems. You are the ignoront people to think different. None of them have any respect for our tradions and beliefs. Banning christmas trees because some idiots get offended COME ON!!!!! wake up.



1.  Learn how to spell and punctuate.

2.  You obviously DO care what people think, or else you wouldn't be on some internet forum defending your opinion.

3.  Good luck - with life. I'm sure you'll grow up at some point.


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## Fishbone Jones (3 Apr 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> You have me all wrong and your just talking pure crap. I never said I hate Asians I said i hate Asians in Canada. Why they come here instead of a different asian country like Japan to start a new life. Canada is a white country and should remain that, *but im not getting banned over what I believe*, but I have the right to think what I want. If you want to move here you better be willing to adapt to our society, not us to yours.



 No, but you will if you keep voicing it here. You just bumped up your final time. Next shot and you're gone.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## armyvern (3 Apr 2008)

civvy said:
			
		

> You have me all wrong and your just talking pure crap. I never said I hate Asians I said i hate Asians in Canada. Why they come here instead of a different asian country like Japan to start a new life.* Canada is a white country and should remain that*, but im not getting banned over what I believe, but I have the right to think what I want. If you want to move here you better be willing to adapt to our society, not us to yours.



You have a right to think what you want. And we have a right to not have to listen to your racist rant. You do not have the right to spout your racist garbage on a privately owned website ... but I see you've just met the site policy ... officially. 

Welcome to the real Canada.


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