# The Red Fridays Foundation of Canada & Repatriation Memorial Rally (May 08): Objections & Praise



## Amos (23 Oct 2006)

this is the website for red friday red ribbon lapel pins....for those who are unable to wear a red T-shirt to work on Fridays to show support for our troops.   MPs in Ottawa are wearing them.
http://www.redfridays.ca


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## Michael OLeary (23 Oct 2006)

> NEWS RELEASE (general public)
> Thursday, October 19, 2006
> 
> Please note: Our site has not officially launched. Our official launch date will be announced shortly. We are finalizing our relationship with the Canadian Armed Forces and their various divisions and other groups to establish the formal name of the recipients of the proceeds generated. Listed below are some of the prospects for recipients of our proceeds.





> Surprisingly, we have had many contact us regarding the RED FRIDAYS movement. Many have claimed to be the people that started the program and question our intentions. REDFRIDAYS.CA does not claim to have started this movement, RED FRIDAYS was developed through the events of RED FRIDAYS in America, in example, "A Soldiers' Daughter Story" that is currently being distributed by email. Please click on the Email Story link from our home page to read the story. Red Fridays is now known throughout Canada and the US as a non-partisan movement to support the troops abroad.
> 
> Our "Proceeds"  collected this far is being held in trust by the development company Brian Muntz Consulting which is under 1491897 Ontario Inc. REDFRIDAYS.CA is finalizing their application for incorporation and registration as a federal charity. Once completed, our own trust fund and charity name will be released to the public.  Furthermore, any other charities that does pair with our fund raising and become official recipients of the funds will be announced here. If you would like to be kept informed on the progress of the fund raising campaigns and the official launch of our site, please click the link above "contact us" and let us know.
> 
> ...



http://www.redfridays.ca/donations.html

I saw nothing in the site the established what portion of the "proceeds" will be donated.


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## Celticgirl (2 Apr 2008)

*National Red Fridays Memorial Day May 31st 2008*

*What is the sound of a repatriation?*  

Is it the sound of the chatter on TV announcing the name of the fallen serving our country? Perhaps the sound from the roar of the large military jet landing in Trenton? Is it the sound of the doors opening on the air craft or the sound of the boots of the soldiers carrying the coffin? Is it the sound of the pipers playing a song of sorrow, or the sound of the commanding officer calling his orders. Was it the sound of the Hearse doors opening or the sound of the people and family near by. Repatriation may be the sound of the cars moving to the Highway of Heroes but then again it may be the sound of the people standing on the bridges. Is it the sound of the traffic going by in anticipation of the procession or the sound of the occasional horn honking as drivers see you on the bridge. Maybe it's the sound of the flags flapping in the wind that people are holding. Then in the distance the procession is in sight and the people on the bridge are mumbling "here it comes". Is the sound of repatriation the police sirens that fills the air as the procession reaches your bridge? The sound of sirens vibrate in your chest then in a beat of your heart you finally hear the sound of a repatriation. It is the sound of a silent "Thank You" from you and all the people around you to the soldier that gave his life for his country; your country. This is the sound of a repatriation; our freedom. 

Many supporters have written to us saying how they would love to come to the Repatriation Memorial Drive and Rally event this May in Trenton and Toronto but can not attend because they are faraway. We have received letters from coast to coast. 

One of our supporters suggested to ask everyone to have their own Red Fridays Celebration on the same day across the nation. We agree this is a great idea. 
No matter how small or how big, have a Red Fridays celebration and memorial day on May 31 2008.  

It may be a few friends at your home, your local sports group at a game, the local Legion or a community event. Lets us know by using the contact form above and register your event with Red Fridays website. We will announce your event and all its particulars on our site. 

Help us unite Canada in celebration of the military family and the Canadian Forces members. Share with Canada the gratitude we all share for those who have lost their lives in protecting our sovereignty and fighting for the freedom we all hold so dear. 

Ask your local politicians to get involved, ask your local businesses to help make your event a success. Invite your community or your friends and family to gather, wear something red and unite in one common cause... Supporting our Troops!

Come Canada, lets make this special day on May 31 a day to remember for all Canadians. Lets set a record of the largest united celebration in demonstrating our support for our troops.

-RFFC  







Link: http://www.redfridays.ca/may312008.php


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## geo (2 Apr 2008)

The sound of sirens vibrate in your chest then in a beat of your heart you finally hear the sound of a repatriation. It is the sound of a silent "Thank You" from you and all the people around you to the soldier that gave his life for his country; your country. This is the sound of a repatriation; our freedom. 

Ummm... isn't Nov 11th the day that has already been set asside to give thanks and remembrance to the soldier that gave his life for his country?

I don't mind setting asside a second day but, possibly, people should come out in greater numbers on NOVEMBER 11th


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## the 48th regulator (2 Apr 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> The sound of sirens vibrate in your chest then in a beat of your heart you finally hear the sound of a repatriation. It is the sound of a silent "Thank You" from you and all the people around you to the soldier that gave his life for his country; your country. This is the sound of a repatriation; our freedom.
> 
> Ummm... isn't Nov 11th the day that has already been set asside to give thanks and remembrance to the soldier that gave his life for his country?
> 
> I don't mind setting asside a second day but, possibly, people should come out in greater numbers on NOVEMBER 11th



I totally agree with you Geo.

It is hard enough to have people come out and understand what November 11th means, but by having something like this only muddyies the waters.  Why can't they delay that for November is beyond me.

dileas

tess


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## geo (2 Apr 2008)

... they probably figure that with milder weather, more people will come.

Then again, talk to anyone that has lost someone to war and they will tell you that EVERY day is a Rememberance day.


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## Dragoon19 (2 Apr 2008)

We out west also do Veterans Day/Armed forces day on or about the first weekend in June 

Just like a smaller version of Nov 11th

So even with my bad math that would be 3

Agree with Geo on this one


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## teddybear (2 Apr 2008)

Me too! 
I, for one, don't need another day to publicly mourn my husband's death. I will do that on the anniversary and on Remembrance Day. There comes a point in my life where I have to live life instead of reliving that awful day.


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## Celticgirl (3 Apr 2008)

I didn't see this as something that could take away from November 11th ceremonies, but I respect the differing opinions posted here.


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## kratz (3 Apr 2008)

The RCL and other veterans groups support Geo's assertion that Canada's approach of commemerating all  those who gave their lives in service on 11 Nov, provides the largest public message. I support the message of 11 Nov as a day to remember. The Wear Red on Fridays Foundation and other groups are more than welcome to spread their message, in support of our troops, but I do not think another special date to commemerate our troops is called for.


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## missing1 (3 Apr 2008)

Then again, talk to anyone that has lost someone to war and they will tell you that EVERY day is a Rememberance day.
[/quote]  

I don't think another remembrance day is required. What next, make it a holiday? I don't think the next of kin need another day when the passing of their loved one is splashed all over the paper or TV.
Apr 22  :'( :'( and Nov 11 is suffice for me, of course I  :'( the other 363 also. But thats just me.


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## the 48th regulator (3 Apr 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I didn't see this as something that could take away from November 11th ceremonies, but I respect the differing opinions posted here.



We appreciate that you respect our opinions here, however has anyone given any thought as to why we would have such a rally?

I mean would it not be better suited for the people of Red Fridays to concentrate their efforts towards the day designated for remembrance?  By creating all of these other days, to make people feel good about the support they give the troops, it will be one more reason for people not to attend a memorial service on cold November day.

"Well I attended the rally in May, so I have shown my support, I will stay in for this remembrance day and watch it on the telly"

See the damage it causes?  The heart may be in the right place, but a little forthought and investigation by the Red Friday group is definitely needed.

Just because one labels a view as an "Opinion" does not make it right  and too sacred to be criticized.

dileas

tess


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## Celticgirl (3 Apr 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> We appreciate that you respect our opinions here, however has anyone given any thought as to why we would have such a rally?
> 
> I mean would it not be better suited for the people of Red Fridays to concentrate their efforts towards the day designated for remembrance?  By creating all of these other days, to make people feel good about the support they give the troops, it will be one more reason for people not to attend a memorial service on cold November day.
> 
> ...



Yes, I do see your point, and until I read the responses here, I honestly hadn't looked at it that way. I love seeing any show of support for our troops, but if having a rally in May will somehow cause people not to attend Remembrance Day ceremonies, then you are right, it's not all positive.  :-\

For the record, I'm not a Red Friday organizer. I received this message on Facebook and wanted to pass it along for those who might be interested. I think the Red Fridays campaign has been a good thing on the whole - it seems that people are showing more support on a daily or weekly basis for the CF than in the past. However, if people think that the May rally is in any way negative or damaging, I would encourage them to follow that link and pass that message on to the organizers.


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## the 48th regulator (3 Apr 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Yes, I do see your point, and until I read the responses here, I honestly hadn't looked at it that way. I love seeing any show of support for our troops, but if having a rally in May will somehow cause people not to attend Remembrance Day ceremonies, then you are right, it's not all positive.  :-\
> 
> For the record, I'm not a Red Friday organizer. I received this message on Facebook and wanted to pass it along for those who might be interested. I think the Red Fridays campaign has been a good thing on the whole - it seems that people are showing more support on a daily or weekly basis for the CF than in the past. However, if people think that the May rally is in any way negative or damaging, I would encourage them to follow that link and pass that message on to the organizers.



If the organizers are in tune with the troops and Vets, I am sure they will see this thread.

The site has been around for a while.

dileas

tess


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (27 May 2008)

Split over rally for war deadMany with ties to military don't endorse Red Flags Foundations event
By MARK BONOKOSKI 


The two Petawawa women who conceived the idea of wearing red on Fridays to support our Canadian troops have divorced themselves from a massive rally this weekend that mirrors the actual repatriation of soldiers killed in Afghanistan. 

Neither Lisa Miller, a military wife, nor her friend, Karen Boire, wants anything to do with the rally's organizer, the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada, a private operation that took its name from the women's grassroots movement. 

"We started Red Fridays as a small thing back in March 2006," Miller says. "We held a rally in Ottawa. There was another in Toronto and then, seven months later, there was this Red Friday's website that had nothing to do with us. 

"It even had our names on the donations page. We were appalled and wanted nothing to do with it," she says. "Veterans were contributing to it thinking we were behind it. 

"But, trust me, we weren't -- and we aren't." 

  

'OBVIOUSLY HESITANT' 

In fact, since its launch in late 2006, the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada has admittedly donated no more than $1,000 to Canadian Forces charities. 

"It took the military nine weeks to cash that ($1,000) cheque. It's obviously hesitant to get involved," said the foundation's founder, York University IT consultant Brian Muntz. "So we are looking elsewhere for ways to help our veterans." 

Muntz insists, however, that all is on the up and up and that he will soon post complete financials of his operation. 

"I know there have been allegations out there that I am nothing but a scammer," he admits. "People are entitled to their own opinion. 

"But do you think I am go -ing to go out there and pull a scam when I have three police departments involved (in the rally), and I've got 15 family members of the fallen involved? 

"Well, I'd be a lunatic to do that, wouldn't I?" 

Now just beginning to attract national media attention, the massive rally scheduled this Saturday from Trenton to Toronto -- along the hallowed Highway of Heroes stretch of the 401 -- will be led by a convoy of 83 red cars representing each Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan since 2001, and with the lead car emblazoned with the names of all the fallen. 

Muntz and his organizers are hoping to have upward of 1,000 vehicles in the cortege. 

"Limited spaces left. Register now for the Repatriation Memorial Drive and Rally," reads the outfit's website, boasting that the rally will be "escorted down the highway by the OPP Golden Helmet Motorcade, other OPP vehicles, as well as Durham Police and Toronto Police vehicles." 

"The procession will look extraordinary as they (sic) pass your overpass," the literature reads. "Remember to bring a Canadian flag to wave proudly as these drivers retrace the trip a fallen soldier takes to honour their sacrifices and to pay tribute to all service men and women and their families." 

It will be a "fun-filled day for the entire family," the promotional material reads. 

There is also a form on the website for rally participants to gather pledges, with a note to make cheques and corporate gifts payable to the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada. 

The sophisticated website also flogs a veritable catalogue's worth of "Support Our Troops" decals, car magnets, lapel pins, T-shirts and ball caps, and sports a "Donate Now" icon for easy online credit card payment. 

NEW LETTER 

There is a reworked, read-and-weep letter, supposedly from the daughter of a Canadian soldier, that was outed long ago by Snopes.com as likely being fiction. 

While what it is doing is not illegal, the ethics of this "foundation" are nonetheless being questioned. 

Cases in point that raise concern: 

* The organization's flagship vehicle, a red Dodge Magnum wagon donated by a Scarborough Chrysler dealership, is decked out with the names of the 83 Canadian soldiers, and one diplomat, killed so far in Afghanistan, leading its critics -- many in the military -- to denounce it as exploitive and in bad taste. 

One of the names on that list is that of Cpl. Glen Arnold, a 32-year-old military medic from Petawawa who was killed by a suicide bomber on Sept. 18, 2006, in an attack that also took the lives of Cpl. Shane Keating, Cpl. Keith Morley and Pte. David Byers of the 2nd Battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, based in Shilo. 

Arnold's widow, Kerry, a mother of three, wants no part of the upcoming rally, and no part of her husband's name on that car. 

"I want it off," she says from Petawawa. "No one called me to ask my permission. In fact, no one has ever spoken to me about it whatsoever. I think it is wrong." 

And so, too, does a military chaplain. 

"I do not want to see a tra velling billboard claiming it is honouring the fallen. What it does is cheapen them," says Capt. Phil Ralph, padre of the 32nd Combat Engineers Regiment, and a minister who has already knocked on three doors to tell families their loved one is not coming home. 

"I'm uncomfortable with it all. First, it is not a registered charity ... and that leaves me uneasy because there are a number of good options for true charities supporting our troops," he says. 

"The Canadian public really cares about our troops, and this only confuses them. Mixed messages usually do." 

* A wounded Canadian hero, Cpl. Mike McTeague, his leg blown off in Afghanistan by the same suicide bomber who killed Kerry Arnold's husband, has repeatedly asked that his picture be removed from the website since he does not endorse it. 

Instead he'd rather money be donated to a legitimate charity, including one registered in his name -- The Sapper Mike McTeague Wounded Warriors Fund (wounded warriors.ca) -- which helps support Canadian soldiers and veterans who have suffered battle injuries or post-traumatic stress disorder from service in Afghanistan. 

"I feel used," says the 22-year-old McTeague, son of an OPP constable based out of Orillia. "I sent an e-mail to (Muntz) almost three weeks ago asking him to take my picture, and any reference to me, off his website. 

"He e-mailed me back and said he would take it down, but, far as I know, it is still there." 

McTeague is right. It has yet to be removed. 

* The department of national defence (DND), while supporting community-based Red Friday campaigns, such as the one first started by Miller and Boire, has made it clear in correspondence that those campaigns are "not to be confused with the Red Friday Foundation, which is not a charity, and is not affiliated with DND or the Canadian Forces (CF)," writes DND spokesman Andrew Mc- Kelvey. 

"Canadians who wish to show support can purchase 'Support Our Troops' merchandise made available through the Canadian Forces Personnel and Family Support Agency (CFPSA)," he says. 

Muntz's website -- red fridays.ca -- does publish a disclaimer that the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada is not a registered charity, although the word "foundation" can give the subliminal impression that it is. 

"Please note that (the foundation) is not a charity and cannot give tax receipts," the disclaimer reads. "We are a public awareness group." 

There is then a link to the donations page. 

According to Muntz, cash drives at various trade shows have netted "only a few hundred dollars" after the expense of renting booths. 

This weekend's rally, he said, has already raised $11,000, money that will now just cover the costs of such expenses as lighting and stage presentations. 

Brian Wilkins, a Durham truck driver, who recently spent six months in Afghanistan on a civilian contract, and who is the designated spokesman for the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada, said the rally is hoping to net $12,000 once all costs are paid -- not for the foundation -- but for the Canadian Hearing Society, which supplies special equipment to hearing-damaged veterans. 

The car bearing the names of dead Canadian soldiers and the one diplomat will reportedly be auctioned off later this year, with proceeds earmarked for the Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans Care in Scarborough. 

'I DON'T KNOW WHY' 

"Charities, by law, are not allowed to give money to charities," Wilkins says. "But registering as a charity is something we are looking into." 

"The military is not behind us 100%," he admits. "And I don't know why. 

"As for Brian Muntz, I've seen the man cry when people have questioned his honesty. You can't fake that. The man would be a fool to try to pull off something (untoward) with this high a national profile. 

"I checked him out myself before getting involved (in the foundation), and I stand behind him 100%," Wilkins says. "It would blow me away if I found out he had scammed so much as a single dollar. 

"He got involved because his parents were liberated by Canadian troops in Holland, and he wants to give back. 

"I'm sure there is no bull shit going on."


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (27 May 2008)

I opened up the Toronto Sun today and this is on the second page.  I'm kinda speechless, I had no idea that the Repatriation Rally/Red Friday Foundation was not a registered charity.  I guess being a military wife it is unbelievable that someone would try to profit and the back of dead Canadian soldiers.  This is me shaking my head in utter disgust. :tsktsk:


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## Celticgirl (27 May 2008)

ENGINEERS WIFE said:
			
		

> I opened up the Toronto Sun today and this is on the second page.  I'm kinda speechless, I had no idea that the Repatriation Rally/Red Friday Foundation was not a registered charity.  I guess being a military wife it is unbelievable that someone would try to profit and the back of dead Canadian soldiers.  This is me shaking my head in utter disgust. :tsktsk:



Ditto.   I had no idea that this was the situation when I posted about the rally here. I belong to the same military wives' site that the ladies who started Red Fridays belong to, and naturally assumed a connection. It is amazing that their names and the names of the fallen and wounded soldiers are being used without their express permission. Unreal.


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## LadySierra (27 May 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Ditto.   I had no idea that this was the situation when I posted about the rally here. I belong to the same military wives' site that the ladies who started Red Fridays belong to, and naturally assumed a connection. It is amazing that their names and the names of the fallen and wounded soldiers are being used without their express permission. Unreal.



I'm not sure I know what name u use on the other site in which we belong, but I am one of the two ladies you speak of Celticgirl.  

Let me bring to everyones attention yet another article that appeared in todays edition of the Trenton Ontario "Trentonian" newspaper. 


MFRC raises red flag over Red Friday rallies
Posted By Caitlin den Boer - The Trentonian
Posted 10 hours ago

The Trenton Military Family Resource Centre is taking exception to the way a private business is raising money for related military charities.

On May 31, a large-scale Memorial Drive Rally leaving from Trenton’s Centennial Park will take place along the Highway of Heroes and arriving at Downsview Park in Toronto. More than 1,000 people are expected to attend.

The rally is being headed by the Red Friday Foundation a private business that started in 2006.

Upwards of 83 vehicles will make up a memorial procession, followed by the ‘Poppy Truck’ and led by the Red Friday Memorial Car. The memorial car displays the names of the 83 fallen soldiers on the vehicles side panels.

But neither the MFRC nor the Department of National Defence are endorsing the rally.

“This is a private for-profit organization,” said Eve Lawrence, Separation Support Services coordinator for the Trenton MFRC. “There is a lot of not-for-profit organizations and this is not one of them.”

Since the private business’s inception in 2006 it has donated $1,000 to the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency (CFPSA). The funds were raised from the selling of Support Our Troops, hats, ribbons, pins and shirts.

But, the business will not be donating any more funds to the agency. “The CFPSA is just a big pot and we don’t really know where the money is going to,” said Red Friday Foundation owner Brian Muntz.

The proceeds from Saturday’s rally will go to support the Canadian Hearing Society to cover their funds short fall to assist veterans. Muntz hopes he’ll be able to raise $12,000, for the society with any surplus going to the Tony Stacey Home for Veterans and the Royal Canadian Legion Morale Fund.

It will cost an estimated $10,000 to stage the Memorial Drive and Rally, including the cost of a portable stage, sound gear and the facilities at Downsview Park, said Muntz.

Lisa Miller, an Ottawa resident who started the original Red Friday’s, said she and close friend Karen Boire have run rallies that haven't cost a single penny.

Advertisement

“We’ve had mixed emotions about this foundation since the beginning,” said Miller, “and the only reason we found out about him because he had our name’s listed on his donation page.”

Miller added that the unknown use of their names on the site, prompted phone calls to her home and that of Boire’s, from people looking to donate to their Red Friday’s campaign.

After Miller contacted Muntz, she said he invited them to participate in his site, and offered them honourary positions and various products, but she says that never led anywhere.

Both Miller and Boire have received awards for their Red Friday efforts.

“People trust people who are trying to do the right thing. It’s a morale thing and you’re taking it on faith,” said Miller.

Miller and Boire weren’t the only people whose name Muntz has used without their permission.

Andrew Eykelenboom, died in August 2006, at the age of 23 when he was killed by a suicide bomber in Spin Boldak, Afghanistan. His name is one of the 83 that appears on the Red Friday Memorial Car.

Andrew’s mother Maureen and creator of Boomer’s Legacy, a charitable foundation, had no idea her son’s name would be on the car or anything about the rally until an interview with The Trentonian from her British Columbia home Monday.

“If they’re using their deaths as a catalyst to do something good, because that’s what they were doing then I will support them,” said Eykelenboom. “But you have to be transparent.”

But, Lt. Commander Hubert Genest from DND Public Affairs in Ottawa stated, “DND is currently looking into intellectual property issues that may arise from The Red Friday Foundation’s us of Canadian Forces’ pictures and other images.”

Genest added, that the “Red Friday” campaigns, like that put on by Miller and Boire are not to be confused with the Red Fridays Foundation.

The foundation is a for-profit, private sector organization that generates funds by selling a variety of products labeled with the slogan “Support Our Troops,” said Genest.

The Canadian Army Veterans Motorcycle Units will be on-hand to assist with parking.

Bill ‘Drifter’ Truman, president of the Kingston Unit said any suspicions the CAV had previously with Muntz and the Red Friday Foundation are no longer present.

“He’s satisfied us with his information,” said Truman, “We have investigated him thoroughly and have kept him at arm’s length but we’re committed to this event. As far as we know he is on the up and up.”

When asked why he didn’t register the Red Friday Foundation as a non-profit charitable organization Muntz stated, “Our intentions are that we will become one, but a charity can not give a way cash donations to another charity.”

Muntz added that in future he hopes to set up scholarships in the name of those who have fallen.

In the event of a repatriation ceremony occurring at the same time as Saturday’s event Muntz said that the event would be postponed to a future date.

“We would go directly to the media and ask everyone to come out to the bridges. They would take precedence in a heartbeat.”

With files from Osprey News Network


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## LadySierra (27 May 2008)

I have to speak up about something else here as well, a little insight for all those interested.

The fact that he states it took 9 weeks for the DND to process his donation cheque to them, the issue lies with his inconsistencies. Mr. Muntz stated to us (the two girls that celticgirl referred to) at one time not long ago (which we can prove) that his donations to the CFPSA were in fact NOT being accepted by the organization. In these articles he states that they were accepted and cashed 9 weeks later...
What is the REAL story?!?!?!
That's what we'd like to know.

Here is more food for thought, Although the red friday foundation of canada is a registered "business" (not to be mistaken for charity) he can not provide tax receipts for donations his foundation receives HOWEVER he can collect tax receipts for the donations that his business makes on other peoples behalfs!!
Think about, the public donates to him, no tax receipts...he takes donated money (and assuming he does donate it) donates it to a charitable donation (if in fact that is the case) and HE receives the tax receipts for his business as those donations have now been made on behalf of the Red Friday's Foundation of Canada
Hmmmm does that sit well... certainly not with me!

 :brickwall:


Just as a side note so people dont think I'm some rambling idiot.. I am the Karen along with my best friend who is the Lisa (lisa not a member here) that are mentioned in these articles posted here today.


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## Celticgirl (27 May 2008)

LadySierra said:
			
		

> I'm not sure I know what name u use on the other site in which we belong, but I am one of the two ladies you speak of Celticgirl.



annapolis71


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## The Bread Guy (27 May 2008)

I was kind of surprised to see the rash of coverage this afternoon along these lines, but thanks LadySierra for the new information.  48th is right - people will see this stuff here...

More of the same from Canadian Press', shared with the usual disclaimer....

*Planned red-car procession to commemorate fallen soldiers angers critics*
Kristine Owram, The Canadian Press, 27 May 08

A planned procession of nearly 100 cars and trucks, scheduled to travel from Trenton, Ont., to Toronto this weekend to commemorate the lives of Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan, has some military families seeing red.

Saturday's event, organized by a group called the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada, will be led by a red Chrysler - donated by a local dealership - emblazoned with the names of 83 soldiers killed since 2002.

Another 83 red vehicles, all of them provided by individual supporters, will follow the lead car down the stretch of Ontario freeway dubbed the Highway of Heroes - the same route taken by the solemn procession that follows the repatriation of a fallen soldier's remains.

"It's a tribute to the men and women who have recently fallen in Afghanistan," said event organizer Brian Muntz, who expects about 15 families who have lost loved ones to the war, including some from outside Ontario, to participate.

"This is something to bring support for our troops to the public forefront."

Muntz said he's encouraging members of the public to participate, and expects as many as 1,000 private vehicles to join the procession.

But the original founders of the Red Fridays movement, which encourages Canadians to support the military by wearing red on the last day of the work week, aren't affiliated with Muntz's group and say some families don't approve of having their loved one's name on the car.

"We support any event for our troops and their families, but we don't believe in a lot of things that are happening in this event," said Lisa Miller, a military wife who started Red Fridays along with her friend Karen Boire.

"Like the names that are on the red car without permission. I know that's upset a lot of people."

The car isn't meant to be an advertisement, Muntz said.

"This car was made to honour those who have fallen," he said. "It doesn't say anywhere on the car to give money or anything like that, it says to wear red on Fridays, and that is a non-partisan way to show that we care and we support our troops."

Muntz said he has received no complaints, but pledged to remove any name from the car if the families wish it.

The car is to be auctioned off after the rally, with proceeds going to a veterans' centre in Toronto. But the car isn't the only problem, say Boire and Miller, who accused Muntz of using their Red Fridays movement and their names without their permission.

"We found out about Brian Muntz and the Red Fridays website about seven months after we had started promoting Red Fridays," Miller said.

"We found him because our names were on his site, but we had no idea who he was. We were angry."

Their names were also being used to solicit financial donations, Boire added. "We have never asked anybody for money, and we don't plan on starting to. Everything we do, we do on our own."

Muntz later agreed to remove their names from the site after they complained.

However, many people still associate the two women with the Red Fridays Foundation and continue to call with offers to donate, Boire said.

The Red Fridays Foundation is not a registered charity, but Muntz said proceeds from Saturday's event are to be donated to various organizations, including the Canadian Hearing Society, which helps veterans who suffer from hearing loss.

It's not unusual for individuals or businesses to organize patriotic events in Canada, and people shouldn't be upset by it, said military historian Jack Granatstein.

"History should tell us that this has been the way it's been ever since the bond drives during the First World War, when companies took out full-page ads and made it a point to support the victory bond efforts," Granatstein said.

"It costs money to organize events of any kind, and a patriotic event spontaneously organized by individuals requires some funding. If a car dealer or a food company or a 'Johnny-on-the-spot' company figures it's important to do something like this, I don't see that it's a bad thing at all."

The day-long event starts at 9 a.m. with a rally at the Centennial Park Amphitheatre in Trenton, an hour's drive east of Toronto, with the procession scheduled to begin at noon. A rally and military tribute is also scheduled to take place in Toronto.


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## Celticgirl (27 May 2008)

LadySierra said:
			
		

> Think about, the public donates to him, no tax receipts...he takes donated money (and assuming he does donate it) donates it to a charitable donation (if in fact that is the case) and HE receives the tax receipts for his business as those donations have now been made on behalf of the Red Friday's Foundation of Canada
> Hmmmm does that sit well... certainly not with me!
> 
> :brickwall:



Yeah, that's pretty shady.  :tsktsk:


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## teddybear (27 May 2008)

I was not aware at all that my husband's name would be displayed on a vehicle. No one from the organization approached me about this or invited me to this rally. A lot of other organizations have done things to honor the fallen and their families and contacted us thru the military. However, this gentleman did not do this. And to advertise it as a fun filled afternoon? Get real....what could be more fun for my family than to take a drive along the route that my husband's body took. That was a very emotional time for us.


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## the 48th regulator (27 May 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> Yeah, that's pretty shady.  :tsktsk:



Remember,

This is a site dedicated those that have, are, and will serve....

We already commemorate on a daily basis.

dileas

tess


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## LadySierra (27 May 2008)

teddybear said:
			
		

> I was not aware at all that my husband's name would be displayed on a vehicle. No one from the organization approached me about this or invited me to this rally. A lot of other organizations have done things to honor the fallen and their families and contacted us thru the military. However, this gentleman did not do this. And to advertise it as a fun filled afternoon? Get real....what could be more fun for my family than to take a drive along the route that my husband's body took. That was a very emotional time for us.



I for one completely understand where you are coming from and what your concerns are. You are not the only spouse or parent of a fallen soldier that has NOT be contacted by the Red Friday's foundation in regards to having those soldiers name added to the car. At this point it seems that all 83 names are there, and now people are starting to speak up about it. 

My advice to you, if this is of concern to you... log onto Mr. Muntz website and demand that your husbands name be removed. And save a copy of the email for yourself. He says he will obey the wishes of the families. 

Please if you need any further assistance, or have any more questions don't hesitate to ask. We've been fighting this fight for quite some time now regarding redfridays.ca


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (27 May 2008)

I am glad that this has all come to light.  I definitely want to support the troops and fallen soldiers and will continue to do so, although, it will be in no way shape or form anything to do with the "Red Friday Foundation"  
I will continue to wear my red shirt of Friday's, go to the "Highway of Heroes" when a fallen hero returns home and do as much as I can.  
It boggles my mind that someone would take something so precious and sacred and tarnish it.  And if he is above board, he certainly isn't making himself look too good.  He should be an open book.  

Teddybear, I am very sorry that you have to deal with crap like this when you have enough on your plate already.  Such insensitivity is unbelievable.


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## teddybear (27 May 2008)

ENGINEERS WIFE said:
			
		

> Teddybear, I am very sorry that you have to deal with crap like this when you have enough on your plate already.  Such insensitivity is unbelievable.



The funny thing is that I knew nothing about this rally except from this site until I received an email from the mom of another fallen soldier. If they want to "advertise" that families of the fallen will be attending, shouldn't they have invited all the families. It's really not that hard to reach us if they use proper channels.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (27 May 2008)

Because I live here in Toronto, and it is ending up at Downview Park, which is literally my backyard.  I have heard of it, and the last few days on Facebook people were asking what was happening and they were unable to find out anything from the "Red Friday Foundation" web site.  And DND was threatening to sue them. And wondering while DND is not supporting the event. Now, it all makes sense.  I did post the article on some of the Facebook groups.  
Even here in Toronto there is either little or no signage at the park.  It all makes sense now that people are aware of what's up with the foundation.  Now, I wish I could get a huge billboard and post the Sun article and show the people that are up there thinking that they are supporting the troops that is a for profit, non-charity event.  I think most would be ashamed.


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## Loachman (27 May 2008)

There's a "Contact Us" link on the site. I sent this:

"A fun filled day for the entire family"???

WHAT???

"FUN"???

That is ghoulish, crass, tasteless, and offensive.

This is being promoted more like an entertainment event, and that's just sick.

Those that you purport to honour were my colleagues. Some were my friends, and one was the son and brother of friends.

And you are calling this "fun"?

I would like to think that you doing this for the right reasons and just screwing up the execution, but that is not easy to do.

I am revolted.

And the more that I hear from others, the more annoyed I become.


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## Franko (27 May 2008)

I can't fathom a "Fun filled day...." seeing as some of my buddies drove down that road.

Loachman already beat me to it....tasteless in execution.

Regards


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

Regardless of how upsetting and how angry this makes us feel... 

PLEASE Let's NOT loose sight of what the REAL Red Friday's Campaign stands for... Support out troops, home and away and their families! Continue to wear your red and show them all we care!
Wear you red LOUD and PROUD... 

For those of you who do feel the need to make your concerns known, there is an email link available on the site at redfridays.ca


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## Harley Sailor (28 May 2008)

I feel so angered with this "Red Friday Foundation", but all I have to say has already been said, except:  Why is their rally not being held on Friday? Did they want to ensure it was not confused with the real Red Fridays?

I proudly attended the Red Friday Rally in Bridgewater Nova Scotia and sure hope it was not connected to this "Foundation".  That would cheapen the whole event for me.


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

Upon discussion this morning with Lisa (who is now in fact a member of the site known as TSL) and after TWO radio interviews (and the third coming soon), we kind of got to thinking.
The Rally parts of this event are all fine and dandy, we support that part, however the drive is the controversial part. No one, especially the familes of the fallen should have to re create that moment of their lives... they've already had to make that drive once, why in heavens would they want to do that again. 

As Canadians who support our troops we should leave that road empty (although we know it's not exactly possible) but it would be like a moment of silence. We shouldn't have a parade of sorts to parade the names of soldiers lost. 
It's also VERY dangerous to drive that portion of highway, and so many will not be escorted.. only the procession of 83 red vehicles are going to be escorted, the other 500ish (that they claim to have) are on their own!

Just a few thoughts.


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## X-mo-1979 (28 May 2008)

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20080528/red_rally_080528/20080528/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Procession to honour fallen soldiers angers critics
Updated: Wed May. 28 2008 8:40:53 AM

The Canadian Press

TORONTO — A planned procession of nearly 100 cars and trucks, scheduled to travel from Trenton, Ont., to Toronto this weekend to commemorate the lives of Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan, has some military families seeing red.

Saturday's event, organized by a group called the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada, will be led by a red Chrysler -- donated by a local dealership -- emblazoned with the names of 83 soldiers killed since 2002.

Another 83 red vehicles, all of them provided by individual supporters, will follow the lead car down the stretch of Ontario freeway dubbed the Highway of Heroes -- the same route taken by the solemn procession that follows the repatriation of a fallen soldier's remains.

"It's a tribute to the men and women who have recently fallen in Afghanistan,'' said event organizer Brian Muntz, who expects about 15 families who have lost loved ones to the war, including some from outside Ontario, to participate.

"This is something to bring support for our troops to the public forefront.''

Muntz said he's encouraging members of the public to participate, and expects as many as 1,000 private vehicles to join the procession.

But the original founders of the Red Fridays movement, which encourages Canadians to support the military by wearing red on the last day of the work week, aren't affiliated with Muntz's group and say some families don't approve of having their loved one's name on the car.

"We support any event for our troops and their families, but we don't believe in a lot of things that are happening in this event,'' said Lisa Miller, a military wife who started Red Fridays along with her friend Karen Boire.

"Like the names that are on the red car without permission. I know that's upset a lot of people.''

The car isn't meant to be an advertisement, Muntz said.

"This car was made to honour those who have fallen,'' he said. "It doesn't say anywhere on the car to give money or anything like that, it says to wear red on Fridays, and that is a non-partisan way to show that we care and we support our troops.''

Muntz said he has received no complaints, but pledged to remove any name from the car if the families wish it.

The car is to be auctioned off after the rally, with proceeds going to a veterans' centre in Toronto. But the car isn't the only problem, say Boire and Miller, who accused Muntz of using their Red Fridays movement and their names without their permission.

"We found out about Brian Muntz and the Red Fridays website about seven months after we had started promoting Red Fridays,'' Miller said.

"We found him because our names were on his site, but we had no idea who he was. We were angry.''

Their names were also being used to solicit financial donations, Boire added. "We have never asked anybody for money, and we don't plan on starting to. Everything we do, we do on our own.''

Muntz later agreed to remove their names from the site after they complained.

However, many people still associate the two women with the Red Fridays Foundation and continue to call with offers to donate, Boire said.

The Red Fridays Foundation is not a registered charity, but Muntz said proceeds from Saturday's event are to be donated to various organizations, including the Canadian Hearing Society, which helps veterans who suffer from hearing loss.

It's not unusual for individuals or businesses to organize patriotic events in Canada, and people shouldn't be upset by it, said military historian Jack Granatstein.

"History should tell us that this has been the way it's been ever since the bond drives during the First World War, when companies took out full-page ads and made it a point to support the victory bond efforts,'' Granatstein said.

"It costs money to organize events of any kind, and a patriotic event spontaneously organized by individuals requires some funding. If a car dealer or a food company or a 'Johnny-on-the-spot' company figures it's important to do something like this, I don't see that it's a bad thing at all.''

The day-long event starts at 9 a.m. with a rally at the Centennial Park Amphitheatre in Trenton, an hour's drive east of Toronto, with the procession scheduled to begin at noon. A rally and military tribute is also scheduled to take place in Toronto. 




It's things like this that really make me mad.People putting down others for attempting to honour our fallen.Did someone copyright our dying?Do they have a monopoly on our mornful trip to Toronto?

Shame on original founders of the Red Fridays.Did they not also "borrow" the Red Friday idea from our Brothers and Sisiters to the south?


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## geo (28 May 2008)

I have no problem with anyone honouring our soldiers AND our fallen in their own personal way.... when it comes from the heart, it shows.

This procession down the Highway of Heroes should be to celebrate all the personnel who have participated on Op Archer AND Rotos 0 thru 4... not just our fallen ( but that's just me)...


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## Loachman (28 May 2008)

Merged.


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Shame on original founders of the Red Fridays.Did they not also "borrow" the Red Friday idea from our Brothers and Sisiters to the south?



 Ok let me clarify something... 

First of all, Lisa and I have ALWAYS acknowledged that the original "idea" of wearing red on Friday's began in the US, however upon much research we learned that it was a very political demonstration against the war in iraq. 

While we loved the concept of wearing red on Fridays and showing support to our CF members we wanted to remove all political and negative aspects of the original email, therefore Lisa took pride in altering the original in many ways to make a much more positive message as well as personal and canadian. 

In all of our public appearances as well as any/all media interviews we have made every attempt to portray this campaign as non partisan/non political, always stating that the original concept began in the US.


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## X-mo-1979 (28 May 2008)

So what is the issue with other Canadian civilians wishing to honour our fallen?I understand they did not contact many of the families,but I see it as a good intention.

Things are not free to organise,where does your organisation get it's money?Toronto is full of larger business,thus where they are getting their money.

Having your names removed off his webpage,where he placed it to maybe aid your organisation seems petty.

Congrats for organising Red Fridays to start.However if it wasn't for people like Mr.Green (CFRA) and other civilians far from the base entrances,it wouldn't have become as popular as it is.

IMHO you two do not own the rights to mourning and celebrating our troops.

Again just my opinion.It has Petawawa PMQ wife pettiness written all over it.


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## Loachman (28 May 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> So what is the issue with other Canadian civilians wishing to honour our fallen?I understand they did not contact many of the families,but I see it as a good intention.



Have you read through this whole merged thread?


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## X-mo-1979 (28 May 2008)

Just did. 
And honestly he really should have contacted EVERY NOK period.However the CAV See's him on the up and up,and as he said he would be stupid to try and pull something off like that on such a sensitive,high profile event."Fun filled day"a tad insensitive,however I've seen other rally's with "Music by"...same thing to me.Just poor choice of words.

I think he's on the up and up.And I don't agree with two women from Petawawa representing this country's fallen all the time.Many people around this country have lost son's,and have never been to a Ottawa valley rally.I think if more people like Mr.Muntz were around we could better honour our troop's extended families as well,by bringing red Fridays outside the control of a few people.


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> So what is the issue with other Canadian civilians wishing to honour our fallen?I understand they did not contact many of the families,but I see it as a good intention.
> 
> Things are not free to organise,where does your organisation get it's money?Toronto is full of larger business,thus where they are getting their money.
> 
> ...



Never have we had a problem with anyone wanting to honor our fallen. 
The problem with the families is that comments have been left on the site indicating that all family members were contacted and issued invitations to attend. It becomes a problem when some of those families have no idea what's going on and wonder why such a statement would be made yet they were not contacted. Problem? I think so.

We have never claimed to own the rights to mourning and celebrating the troops. What we do own though are our personal reputations, and those reputations are taking a hit the last few days because of this! We have every right to speak out. 
Put yourself in our shoes for a couple days.

As for organizing costs, we are not an organization, we are TWO people who wanted to show support and encourage others to do the same. We accepted the help of people like MR. Green who believed in us and our message and wanted to do something to help. 
It became as popular as it is because we made the effort to contact media outlets who CHOSE to help us because they believe in it and we were not afraid to ask other civilians and civilian companies for help in spreading the message. 
We have no shame in admitting that had it not been for our friends in the Canadian Media who believe in everything we do, this would not be what it is today.

We've never asked money of supporters, the most we've received were donations towards a very large event we put on last fall! 
Any other costs that have come up over the last two years have come out of our own pockets, which have not been much more than travel costs to events across Ontario. 
We have A LOT of support/supporters, so when the time comes to do any kind of event organizing on our part the offers of help pour in, we don't incur any costs.

Having our names initially removed from his site was a personal decision on our parts. How would you like your phone ringing off the hook on the regular basis from people asking where to send you money cause your name has appeared on a web page designed to bring in donations.
We aren't doing this for monetary reasons, we don't want to be associated with that. 

Now tell me how this is PMQ wife pettiness... what an ignorant comment to make.


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## McG (28 May 2008)

For all I can tell, this guy [Brian Muntz] has excellent intentions with seriously misguided execution.  Recreating a rather somber event as a festival of sorts is somewhat morbid & distrubing, using names of the fallen without consent is questionable, misrepresenting others as endorsing your activities is a lie, and I'm only tapping the surface.



			
				X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Having your names removed off his webpage,where he placed it to maybe aid your organisation seems petty.


Petty?!  Would you appreciate your name & image being used to imply endorsement of a product/event/organization of which you had no knowledge?  What if that organization were casting itself in the light of being a charitable function (despite not being registered as such) and your public reputation & perception of integrity risked serious harm?  Demanding one's own personification be removed in such instances is most certainly not petiteness.  It is the only reasonable course of action.


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Just did.
> And I don't agree with two women from Petawawa representing this country's fallen all the time.Many people around this country have lost son's,and have never been to a Ottawa valley rally.I think if more people like Mr.Muntz were around we could better honour our troop's extended families as well,by bringing red Fridays outside the control of a few people.



Red Friday's is NOT about representing the fallen. Where have you been? I would ask that you educate yourself regarding Red Fridays and what it stands for before making such ignorant comments. 

Lisa and I do NOT represent the fallen, we help spread the message of wearing red on Fridays and when we appear in public forum (ie Rally's) we speak on behalf of canadians who support our troops, past, present and future. 
If you would like to really educate yourself regarding what we do and how we do it, I encourage you to visit YouTube and view the videos posted of the first red friday rally held on Parliament hill in 2006, our speeches in particular. 
Visit news sites such as A-Channel.ca and view the footage that is available there from several different interviews. 
Use google as a tool... bottom line here is that you need to educate yourself regading OUR message of support and what we are about or here's a thought, quite simply ask US, before you start making any comments or accusations about us or our message. 

As for Mr.Muntz, it's your personal decision to support what he does and how he does it but we do not and that's our opinion. We don't have to agree.
We have no personal issue with Mr. Muntz or the fact that he's holding events, in fact we encourage others to do so. What we do believe is that he has the PERFECT opportunity with his site to bring awareness about our CF members, fallen or otherwise serving in country or out, to bring awareness to the ease of which you can host an event of your own and to help educate people which registered charities and organizations are out there to support our military families, and there are MANY. 
However we feel that he is raising too many questions, he spends too much time representing the fallen, rather than the whole of the military. 
We believe that you must give equal support to all aspects of the military, not just one. 

We do hope that Mr. Muntz listens to what people have to say (and not just us) and perhaps make a few changes. 

Please remember that Lisa and I do not represent the fallen and we never have, nor do we want to (although we strongly believe in honoring our fallen) We represent those who support our military by wearing RED on fridays.


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## X-mo-1979 (28 May 2008)

LadySierra said:
			
		

> Where have you been?



Away as per.



			
				MCG said:
			
		

> For all I can tell, this guy [Brian Muntz] has excellent intentions with seriously misguided execution.  Recreating a rather somber event as a festival of sorts is somewhat morbid & distrubing, using names of the fallen without consent is questionable, misrepresenting others as endorsing your activities is a lie, and I'm only tapping the surface.


Agreed completely.Keep in mind this is most likely someone with little to no military contact,and just really trying his best to organise something.The road to hell was paved with good intentions.



			
				LadySierra said:
			
		

> We have A LOT of support/supporters, so when the time comes to do any kind of event organizing on our part the offers of help pour in, we don't incur any costs.



And so does he.That's why he is receiving money/donations as well.
Your names are off his page (which I also believe had good intentions),the CAV looked into him and believe he is legit,and I'm sure if their is an issue the RCMP will look into it as well.I hope the fallen's family get their loved ones name removed if they do not wish it to be there.I understand that very well.As a certain regiment here in Canada keeps having ceremonies for a fallen soldier,over and over....and the family is having a hard time coping.As well as his friends as well..I know.
However that regiment is doing so with good intentions,and it is appericated.However it is a little too much from some of the families point of view.


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

Look, I'm not in this to argue or even debate the issue for that matter.
I've said my peace privately and publicly how I, how we (Lisa and I) feel about Brian Muntz and his organization. We're not looking to pick fights, we're just trying to defend morals. 
We're not looking to disrespect Mr. Muntz or anyone else for that matter, that's not what we are about. We're just trying to get the facts straight. We are not willing to allow our names to be dragged through the mud (after two years of hard work) over something that we believe to be immoral. 
and just to be clear as to his legitimacy, some believe him to be, and others don't... that is yet to be determined by the proper investigative agencies.

To each their own I suppose. 

I just wish to keep doing what we do, and that's spread the word about Red Friday's. 

Accept it or don't accept it... Red Friday's is simply about supporting the troops and their families, bottom line. It's not about money and pledges for this event or that one... It's not about who's right and who's wrong, it's solely about SUPPORT!


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## Old Sweat (28 May 2008)

Lady Sierra

As someone who was on Parliament Hill on that extremely emotional and moving day, I would like to thank both of you for your efforts over the years. As far as this broken down old gunner is concerned there never will be any question about your strength of character and your motivation. I was close enough to the podium to see the joy and amazement on your faces as the lawn in front of the centre block turned into a sea of red.

Wear Red has a special meeting as we have a new name on the war memorial in front of the high school under the heading Afghanistan. Hopefully we won't be adding another any time soon.


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Lady Sierra
> 
> As someone who was on Parliament Hill on that extremely emotional and moving day, I would like to thank both of you for your efforts over the years. As far as this broken down old gunner is concerned there never will be any question about your strength of character and your motivation. I was close enough to the podium to see the joy and amazement on your faces as the lawn in front of the centre block turned into a sea of red.
> 
> Wear Red has a special meeting as we have a new name on the war memorial in front of the high school under the heading Afghanistan. Hopefully we won't be adding another any time soon.



Thank You Old Sweat! 
That means an aweful lot.. Not only to myself but I speak for Lisa as well in this regard.

Thank you, not only for supporting us, but thank you for all you've done for our country! You make us proud and for you, we wear red!


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## Leebaby (28 May 2008)

Hello to everyone posting on here.  I joined this forum today to respond to this discussion about the rally this weekend.

I was registered to participate in the rally this weekend.  I was under the impression that this event was legit.  I was going to ride from Toronto to Trenton with a fairly big group of other motorcycle riders that I know.  A co-worker brought to my attention the article in the Sun yesterday about this rally and that prompted me to do more research about this whole thing.  The more I've read, the more disturbed I've become about this whole thing.  I came across your forum and after reading what has been going on with respect to this rally and some of the concerns that families are having with respect to all of this, I have bowed out of participating in this rally. I had no idea that I'd be potentially participating in something that was upsetting to so many families.  I've informed my group of all the concerns that there are surrounding this event/organization and I hope that they will follow suit and bow out as well.  Our intent was never to harm anyone with our participation, it was only to show support and it is clear to me that participating in this event is not the right thing to do now.

I support the troops with all my heart.  My spouse and I wear red to work on Friday's and have been doing so for quite some time now.   We will continue to do so.   

Best wishes to everyone, you have my SUPPORT!!

Leanne


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## Loachman (28 May 2008)

Thank-you, Leanne.

Thank-you, Lady Sierra and Lisa.

X-mo-1979: Were this a simple rally, I would have no objections to this event, or it being billed as a "fun event" - I certainly enjoyed the performances at the Toronto one a few years ago (as well as meeting the "homeless man who looked like Gordon Lightfoot" - ask Danjanou). It is the simulated procession that bothers me.

Why stop there? Why not put coffins in the vehicles? Why not hold a simulated full-blown funeral as well?

While OPP participation is a nice gesture on their part, I think that if somebody suggested showing support for police by simulating a police funeral parade, they might not be quite so enthusiastic.

The disrespect shown to at least some families is extremely distressing as well.


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

I really appreciate how people are beginning to see what we see when it comes to this, we are NOT trying to be vindictive....and 
its not a matter of taking sides (I know someone will pipe up at some point and that's so, but it's not) it's about seeing the full picture, it's about knowing what you're getting involved in before you do, it's about education! 

We never have, nor will we discourage anyone from participating in this event, we just want those that chose to, to be VERY well informed before they do. 


You know, I appreciate that the OPP and the Golden Helmets are going to take part to ensure safety on the highway. Although I may not agree with it, they have been assigned a job to do, therefore they must follow through on that job. It's not about personal opinions to them, however if it were perhaps they, like us would dig into all of this a little further, but that, we'll never know. 

I only wish that a little more, no, make that A LOT more respect would be shown to these grieving families!  

and thank YOU Loachman!


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## teddybear (28 May 2008)

As far as I know, none of the families that I know have a problem with a red rally. We have attended those that we could . The biggest complaint that I have heard is the simulated procession along the Highway of Heros. Red Fridays is about supporting our serving troops. Trust me when I say that as far as my family is concerned, we do not need anymore processions. The repats, funerals and memorials have all been done and now we choose how to honour our loved ones. For most of us, that will happen on the anniversary and on Nov 11th. Had this rally been just a support rally there would probably be very few objections. We appreciate all those who stand on the overpasses as our loved ones passed on their final journies.


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

teddybear said:
			
		

> As far as I know, none of the families that I know have a problem with a red rally. We have attended those that we could . The biggest complaint that I have heard is the simulated procession along the Highway of Heros.



Agreed. 

Unfortunately, in my opinion of course, this was put together all wrong. Perhaps a little more thought should have been involved surrounding the day's 'activities'
From the feedback here, and elsewhere all day today, this is not something that people are ok with, families of fallen included. 

Teddybear, thank you for posting.


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## Blindspot (28 May 2008)

I too was eager to attend the rally at Downsview before reading this thread. Not so much anymore. The rally now seems to me like two very different events of differing atmosphere welded together: one sombre (and perhaps not appropriate) and the other, "Family Fun".

So, I'm thinking what if we had an annual Canadian Forces Day, a day of "Family Fun" to show support for those who currently serve. Not a holiday but maybe a day in late spring or early summer. I recall as a very young child attending military shows and tattoos in stadiums. Why couldn't we have a full day of events, displays and demonstrations of all things Canadian Forces? Downsview would be the perfect place for such an event.

-Display hardware past and present
-Demonstrations such as the QOR rapelling from a helicopter, 7 Tor firing their guns, etc.
-Massed bands, pipes and drums.

This would be a fabulous oppurtunity for the public to really engage with serving members. I recall the family day at Borden a couple of years ago as an example. Kids played games and had fun. Might also be a great oppurtunity for recruitment.

Wouldn't something like this be feasible?

Mods, if this is off topic, I apologize.


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## McG (28 May 2008)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> Mods, if this is off topic, I apologize.


Your sentiment might better fit in the Peacekeeping day thread:  http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/76831/post-717291.html#msg717291


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> So, I'm thinking what if we had an annual Canadian Forces Day, a day of "Family Fun" to show support for those who currently serve.



Actually, there is already a day set aside annually for this exact thing which is commonly referred to as 'Canadian Forces' day.
Different bases go about it in different ways, for example, this Friday in Ottawa, NDHQ has organized, for the second year in a row, a "run in red" which consists of a 7km run in which all participants wear something red and run the course.

I know here in Petawawa, CF day generally consists of a large display of military vehicles, displays and such. It's normally a very "fun" day for all involved. 

However, the event planned for this weekend gives the impression of fun is not exactly appropriate in my eyes in connection with the rest of the planned events.
I don't believe they belong together.


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## the 48th regulator (28 May 2008)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> I too was eager to attend the rally at Downsview before reading this thread. Not so much anymore. The rally now seems to me like two very different events of differing atmosphere welded together: one sombre (and perhaps not appropriate) and the other, "Family Fun".
> 
> So, I'm thinking what if we had an annual Canadian Forces Day, a day of "Family Fun" to show support for those who currently serve. Not a holiday but maybe a day in late spring or early summer. I recall as a very young child attending military shows and tattoos in stadiums. Why couldn't we have a full day of events, displays and demonstrations of all things Canadian Forces? Downsview would be the perfect place for such an event.
> 
> ...



You mean something like The Warriors' Day Parade

http://www.thewarriorsdayparade.ca/


Established in 1921, The Warriors' Day Parade takes place in August of each year during the opening weekend of The Canadian National Exhibition (CNE) in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The longest-running, annual parade of its' type, The Warriors' Day Parade is an important Canadian tradition and a very significant event for our Veterans, our brave men and women who currently serve in Canada's military, their families and the general public. 

We are pleased to announce the details of the 87th Warriors' Day Parade which to be held on Saturday, August 16th, 2008.  This year the theme of the Parade is 'SALUTING OUR VETERANS, SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS'. We also remember the 90th anniversary of the end of World War I. Complete Information about the Parade is available on this website by going to our Parade Info page. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further information. Email addresses are shown at the bottom of this page.  

dileas

tess


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## LadySierra (28 May 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> You something like The Warriors' Day Parade



The Warrior's day parade is a wonderful show of support and I did hear about the theme of this years parade at the CNE this summer. I believe that it is for this particular event that Lisa and I have been asked to be in attendance. 
I look forward to it. 

These are the perfect displays of support... this is what we like to see when we talk about supporting the men and woman in the canadian forces and their families!!


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## captainj (28 May 2008)

I have some intimate knowledge of this business a few things to ponder as follows;

*1.* They claim not to accept gratuities, if that "free" car is not a gratuitiy I do not know what is. I would suggest it is woth $700.00 per month. That kindest thing I can say about that car is rather exploitive at best. The fallen are living souls who should be remembered, their names belong on graves, cenotaphs, unit lines and in our hearts. NOT I repeat NOT on a commercial enterprise with a car dealerships logo on it. May I suggest we start a petition the Chrysler and ask that it be removed from the road ASAP. If not that why not call Scarsview Dodge Chryser to express our displeasure at this crass and tasteless heap of iron. *BTW the phone # 416 281 6200*I for one will never purchase a Chrysler product so long as that car is on the road. Can anyone tell me how that car supports anyone in the CF?  In the event Chrysler or a dealership really wants to show support they could give that car to the MFRC in Trenton or any other that may need it (wrapping removed of course). Better yet why not rig out a Magic Van so one of our amputees could use it or perhaps at a MFRC for the greater good of all.

*2.* While there may be a few NOK who have no issues with their loved ones names being on the car I think the lions share object. The fact that this business chose not to seek permission speaks volumes.

*3.* They claim to have only collected a few 100 dollars at the many shows they go to sell wares at. I challange that statement. I have personally witnessed them and the brisk trade they do at the  2007 and 2008 International Motor Cycle show. Folks this show attracts 60K over a weekend in Jan. I think it is fair to say the Motor Cycle crowd are generous to a fault. At this booth they have the old donation box. I suggest they collect a few 100 dollars out of that. Insofar as sales go I suggest they would gross several 1000 at the prices they charge they net a tidy sum. This is but one event they do a number of them a year. All cash business not including his internet business. Every T shirt every ribbon etc he sells take away from MFRC's and CFPSA at the end of the day the troops. They also say they pay for booth space I challange them to show me reciepts from this show anyhow considering they were in the charity area. Hmmm interesting very few events are posted as past events makes you wonder.

*4.* The web site is always changing and in a flux whenever they are questioned or caught out. Point in fact some time ago they had the image of the CDS on his donate now button. That folks is a defacto endorsement. I can only assume they were asked to pull it along with the other images they posted to give the illusion of being associated with the CF.They had some of our wounded posted on the site and were asked several times to remove this illusion of endorsement. They basically blew them off by saying their image was public property NOT TRUE. I suggest as a business they would require a models release. They in fact had a picture of a charity event that involved Don Cherry and Ron McClean that supported the troops. Why you ask hmmm I guess with those two Cdn icons it may look like an endorsement. Only after the Toronto Sun article did they pull them. Now I ask you are these the actions of a business the "Supports the Troops". I say no rather a business that not only exploits our fallen but also our wounded.

*5.* Let's talk about their latest charity (They have in the past articulated several none have collected other than the grand sum of $1000.00 to CFPSA) The Canadian Hearing Society, last time I looked VAC looked after our folks as well as the CF Med system. Now I am not saying that this group is bad. Rather The Red Friday Foundation is embelishing the impact they have on the troops both old and new. I may be wrong on this but I await to be corrected.

*6.* It would be interesting to find out what sales pitch they used with his corporate sponsors (particularly the car) again we should call them each and every one to express our displeasure. After all a business understands what a bottom line is. Indeed a business cares about upsetting potential customers.

*7.* The Red Fridays Foundation is a business that uses the word "foundation" this word conjures and creates the illusion of charity. While it is true they post this on the web site on the "About us" button one has to dig deep. I think it is fair to say most folks do not read web site rather they peruse them see pictures of that appear legit etc then donate (BTW I do not know of any "business" that asks for donations I guess that is another one of thos magical words that charities use). Take a read of the About Us button they very losely articulate what their expenses are. my pers fav is the one on purchasing SOT items, hello you then sell them and reclaim your costs and then make a profit hardly an expense.

*8.* As a "Non Profit" business it is true one generally does not draw a salary but boy those expenses can sure add up. Of course as a business there is no transparancy whatsoever. Now that they are under the gun they say they will at some point sometime open the books. did I mention that at shows it is all cash.........They say they are looking into being a charity whatever that means. this is inconsistant with the reason they give for not being a charity. They state the reason we are not a charity is as a charity we cannot give to another charity. This is true Rev Canada is very clear on what a charity can do. so my question is after 2 plus years as a business you have given $1000.00. show me the money. to me this is nothing but shape shifting when asked a simple question.

*9.* BTW what is the awareness business, cute as a fox I think. What I want to know is who asked them to be an advocate (we have a few pretty good ones incl the new VAC ambudsman) for the troops and what have they done. The last time I looked it was the short form of Richard.

*10.* Finally, the facts are this business took a great grass roots idea started by 2 very special ladies i am honoured to call friends. They took it contorted and twisted a lovely thing and made it a ugly nasty business to serve only one end. They were cunning enough to take the concept and protect "their" intellectual property. 

There is a latin word for that th__f you fill in the blanks. 

This was the act of a bully, confirmed by todays radio AM640 int with one of the girls. Generally when one does not let the other speak when it is their turn it is considered "me thinks thou protest too much". Usually this is because ones back is agaist the wall aka Hillery.

What we need to do is to keep reminding Cdns  that this is a business nothing more nothing less. 

legal yes it is the intent that is in question. The good news is Canadians heard what they are really about, bullys who bully our wounded, and two very fine Canadians my "red fridays" girls. 

Bullys who have exploited our fallen and put the NOK in a difficult position. They need to be tried in the court of public opinion where Canadians can see the unvarnished truth.


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## Franko (29 May 2008)

captainj said:
			
		

> I have some intimate knowledge of this business a few things to ponder as follows;1. They claim not to accept gratuities, if that "free" car is not a gratuitiy I do not know what is. I would suggest it is woth $700.00 per month. That kindest thing I can say about that car is rather exploitive at best. The fallen are living souls who should be remembered, their names belong on graves, cenotaphs, unit lines and in our hearts. NOT I repeat NOT on a commercial enterprise with a car dealerships logo on it. May I suggest we start a petition the Chrysler and ask that it be removed from the road ASAP. If not that why not call Scarsview Dodge Chryser to express our displeasure at this crass and tasteless heap of iron. *BTW the phone # 416 281 6200*I for one will never purchase a Chrysler product so long as that car is on the road. Can anyone tell me how that car supports anyone in the CF?  In the event Chrysler or a dealership really wants to show support they could give that car to the MFRC in Trenton or any other that may need it (wrapping removed of course). Better yet why not rig out a Magic Van so one of our amputees could use it or perhaps at a MFRC for the greater good of all.2. While there may be a few NOK who have no issues with their loved ones names being on the car I think the lions share object. The fact that this business chose not to seek permission speaks volumes.3. They claim to have only collected a few 100 dollars at the many shows they go to sell wares at. I challange that statement. I have personally witnessed them and the brisk trade they do at the  2007 and 2008 International Motor Cycle show. Folks this show attracts 60K over a weekend in Jan. I think it is fair to say the Motor Cycle crowd are generous to a fault. At this booth they have the old donation box. I suggest they collect a few 100 dollars out of that. Insofar as sales go I suggest they would gross several 1000 at the prices they charge they net a tidy sum. This is but one event they do a number of them a year. All cash business not including his internet business. Every T shirt every ribbon etc he sells take away from MFRC's and CFPSA at the end of the day the troops. They also say they pay for booth space I challange them to show me reciepts from this show anyhow considering they were in the charity area. Hmmm interesting very few events are posted as past events makes you wonder.4. The web site is always changing and in a flux whenever they are questioned or caught out. Point in fact some time ago they had the image of the CDS on his donate now button. That folks is a defacto endorsement. I can only assume they were asked to pull it along with the other images they posted to give the illusion of being associated with the CF.They had some of our wounded posted on the site and were asked several times to remove this illusion of endorsement. They basically blew them off by saying their image was public property NOT TRUE. I suggest as a business they would require a models release. They in fact had a picture of a charity event that involved Don Cherry and Ron McClean that supported the troops. Why you ask hmmm I guess with those two Cdn icons it may look like an endorsement. Only after the Toronto Sun article did they pull them. Now I ask you are these the actions of a business the "Supports the Troops". I say no rather a business that not only exploits our fallen but also our wounded.5. Let's talk about their latest charity (They have in the past articulated several none have collected other than the grand sum of $1000.00 to CFPSA) The Canadian Hearing Society, last time I looked VAC looked after our folks as well as the CF Med system. Now I am not saying that this group is bad. Rather The Red Friday Foundation is embelishing the impact they have on the troops both old and new. I may be wrong on this but I await to be corrected.6. It would be interesting to find out what sales pitch they used with his corporate sponsors (particularly the car) again we should call them each and every one to express our displeasure. After all a business understands what a bottom line is. Indeed a business cares about upsetting potential customers.7. The Red Fridays Foundation is a business that uses the word "foundation" this word conjures and creates the illusion of charity. While it is true they post this on the web site on the "About us" button one has to dig deep. I think it is fair to say most folks do not read web site rather they peruse them see pictures of that appear legit etc then donate (BTW I do not know of any "business" that asks for donations I guess that is another one of thos magical words that charities use). Take a read of the About Us button they very losely articulate what their expenses are. my pers fav is the one on purchasing SOT items, hello you then sell them and reclaim your costs and then make a profit hardly an expense.8. As a "Non Profit" business it is true one generally does not draw a salary but boy those expenses can sure add up. Of course as a business there is no transparancy whatsoever. Now that they are under the gun they say they will at some point sometime open the books. did I mention that at shows it is all cash.........They say they are looking into being a charity whatever that means. this is inconsistant with the reason they give for not being a charity. They state the reason we are not a charity is as a charity we cannot give to another charity. This is true Rev Canada is very clear on what a charity can do. so my question is after 2 plus years as a business you have given $1000.00. show me the money. to me this is nothing but shape shifting when asked a simple question.9. BTW what is the awareness business, cute as a fox I think. What I want to know is who asked them to be an advocate (we have a few pretty good ones incl the new VAC ambudsman) for the troops and what have they done. The last time I looked it was the short form of Richard.10. Finally, the facts are this business took a great grass roots idea started by 2 very special ladies i am honoured to call friends. They took it contorted and twisted a lovely thing and made it a ugly nasty business to serve only one end. They were cunning enough to take the concept and protect "their" intellectual property. There is a latin word for that th__f you fill in the blanks. This was the act of a bully, confirmed by todays radio AM640 int with one of the girls. Generally when one does not let the other speak when it is their turn it is considered "me thinks thou protest too much". Usually this is because ones back is agaist the wall aka Hillery. What we need to do is to keep reminding Cdns  that this is a business nothing more nothing less. legal yes it is the intent that is in question. The good news is Canadians heard what they are really about, bullys who bully our wounded, and two very fine Canadians my "red fridays" girls. Bullys who have exploited our fallen and put the NOK in a difficult position. They need to be tried in the court of public opinion where Canadians can see the unvarnished truth.



Holy run on sentences batman.

If you want to be taken seriously in your posts then please take the time to put it into paragraphs.
*
The Army.ca staff*


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## captainj (29 May 2008)

Fair enough actually did but somehow when I posted it kinda went nuts on me. Give me a break I only mastered the rotory phone last year LOL. Thanks ever so much for fixing it up for me.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (29 May 2008)

I personally have thought alot about this today.  
And for me I find that I have personal issues with Repatriation Rally and the Red Friday foundation.  Not in the fact that they are having them.  I realize that some find the rally itself may be painful, I can definitely understand why some families would not like to participate, but, for some other families it might give them some closure. I don't know, I have not been in their shoes, I don't really care to assume how they are feel about it.  Everyone with a fallen family member has their own individual thoughts and feeling.  And none of them are wrong.  
It just is. 
My issue is that I feel it that I have thought this was a charitable thing, but to find out that they have donated less than a $1000 raises lots of questions for me.   Where is all the money?  And after looking at their web site, I question if all these businesses, charities and families have been mislead?  Maybe they were all as surprised by what they read when they opened the paper.  And why weren't the families of the fallen weren't asked if their family members name could be put on the car?  It raises more questions.  
I doesn't seem all above board for me, and we don't seem to get any solid answers from the foundation.
I wish this wasn't an issue and it was all good.  I hope that we get the answers, but I have a feeling we won't.  
Sorry isn't going to cut it.

This will NOT stop me from supporting the troops, wearing red on Friday or paying my respects when a hero has fallen.


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## geo (29 May 2008)

Refs to TOronto's Warrior day parade.... Excellent!

Quebec City has decided to extend Freedom of the City to 5 CMBG.  The parade is happening on or around Canada day
This'll be year 2 that 5 CMBG will be parading thru the City, drums beating, flags flying and bayonnets fixed.... well, they'll be fixed after the Freedom of the City has been given 

Who woulda thought... ??? Quebec City liking it's soldiers


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## the 48th regulator (29 May 2008)

My point, from the very beginning of this thread, was that we already have days and functions dedicated to the soldier.

All I am seeing is a re-hashing of what is already out there, and to me it reeks of ignorance.

The original Red Friday idea was original, yet others have taken it and bent it for there own purposes and agenda, hence the ignorance I talk about.

Rememberance Day, Warriors Day Parade, and The original Red Friday campaign covers what All others are trying to do  and moan that there is lack of recognistion.

Get out there and support traditions that have been around for decades, even the little brother Red Friday!

dileas

tess


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## LadySierra (29 May 2008)

First of all to CaptainJ, Thank you!

Everything we've been trying to say and so much more, you've accomplished.
This topic pulls right at our heart strings so sometimes, it's difficult to put what/how we're feeling about all this into a proper, intelligent sentence (especially when, like yesterday we were so very frustrated and pulling our hair out lol)... You my friend have done so. Thanks! 
Don't even get me started about that AM640 interview....LOL but you're right, i'm not the one left looking a fool.  ;D


Engineer's wife, you're not alone. In the very beginning when this foundation/website was first discovered, although we did not trust it, we gave it an honest to goodness chance, we also gave the owner/operator an honest chance as well, even after discovering that he had deceived us before we even knew him, or him us!
Many people believed that this was going to turn out to be a good thing. Lisa and I tried to work with him and his foundation for a short time, unfortunately we were blindsided by it all. 
The site/foundation seemed to be mimicking our message. At first glance redfridays.ca seemed like a wonderful place to visit to learn more about RF, the original story behind it and of course our story behind RF in Canada. 

You are certainly not alone in wondering where all the money is, but because the RFFD is a registered business and NOT a registered charity, they are not required to provide their financials to anyone unless they are audited.
It all seems so very wrong. I BELIEVE it is all very wrong! 
How can someone take such an innocent thing, something that was simply an avenue for Canadians to show their support to members of the Canadian forces and their families, and turn it into something soooo very commercialized. 

Regardless of any of this, the important thing is to remember that RED FRIDAYS is solely about wearing red on Fridays as a visual show of support to our Canadian armed forces men and woman and of course, their families as well.


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## TSL (29 May 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Why stop there? Why not put coffins in the vehicles? Why not hold a simulated full-blown funeral as well?
> 
> While OPP participation is a nice gesture on their part, I think that if somebody suggested showing support for police by simulating a police funeral parade, they might not be quite so enthusiastic.
> 
> The disrespect shown to at least some families is extremely distressing as well.



Good point ... I am sure more people would see and understand what is not right with this part of their event! 
The drive part of this rally ... does not sit well with me ... and from the feedback and what we've read and heard ... it doesn't sit well with alot of people 


The car should never have had the names of all the fallen on it .... not without first ASKING ALL the families permission ... and having ALL families agree _(and should there have been mixed opinions within those family units about this ... it should not be considered)_ to assume that a name is PUBLIC because it was printed in the papers or on websites _(when the media/DND announced the names of our fallen)_ is wrong 
They are gone from this earth but thier names are STILL THEIRS .... you don't take something just because someone isn't using it anymore and turn around and use it for your own purposes!!!! IE: placing it on a car and parading it down the road _(even if you state it is to honour our fallen)_ the name and the use of the name should be at the discretion of the families 

I am sorry, but in MY opinion ... by stating ALL over the web and in the news that the names of all the fallen are on the vehicle and that said vehicle will be auctioned off later and so on and so forth ... that's using the fallen to generate more attention ... and that is very very WRONG <again my opinion> 

Shame on those who came up with this idea!!! 

a radio host made this comment and it hit the nail on the head 

There is a reason we have only ONE tomb of the unknown soldier 

That unknown solider is symbolic of ALL the hero's we've lost  <<correct me if I am wrong>>

Why did REDFRIDAYS.CA not just have one BLANK RED CAR drive the highway in honour of our fallen ????
it would have been very symbolic ... no?


just an FYI : at every rally event I have held or seen or been told about ... there has ALWAYS been a moment or two of silence in honour of our fallen and their families 

THAT is my two cents worth .... maybe a little more than 2 cents!!! 

I will continue to wear red every Friday!


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## Trinity (29 May 2008)

Straight from their website



> Our Mission:
> 
> * To promote wearing Red on Fridays that is impartial to any world events and remain non partisan on supporting the Canadian Troops.
> * To offer all  organizations that support the movement to wear Red on Fridays a common website portal for their events and assistance in organizing their events.
> ...



Brand recognition as a support for Canadian troops..... ok...!!!?!?!

Go into their products for sale and you'll see this






American flag with red fridays on the bottom???

So... how does having an American flag help their goal of brand recognition for Canada???
Isn't that contrary to their own mission statement!??!?!


They also have an American Soldier pic on their front page.
They still have that fake spam letter on their site.
They still have the pic of a certain injured Cpl (name withheld) on their site after he asked for it to come down.

Wow...  just wow.  


edit: btw... not attacking America in any way (I appreciate our allies)


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## LadySierra (29 May 2008)

Trinity said:
			
		

> They still have the pic of a certain injured Cpl (name withheld) on their site after he asked for it to come down.



Seems pretty contradictory, his mission statement that is, doesn't it? 

As for that certain Cpl, he's been asking for quite some time to have any info pertaining to him removed from the site, and as you can see, it's still there. I'm certainly NOT surprised! 
The info should have been removed upon FIRST request. Although, it never seems to happen that way.


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## captainj (29 May 2008)

Lady Sierra thanks for that but you 2 have show incredible courage over the past couple of days thank you.

History is a great teacher or so they say. Like the Red Fridays girls a certain reg charity named after a unnamed Cpl who was then a Sapper also  gave The Red Fridays Foundation every chance. He asked to help us in our fundraising efforts. We did what most do and take people on faith. Guess what after approx 6 months of him doing business using our name by way of endorsement lunch bag let down. We saw the level of business he was doing and asked for the net profits as he promised. What we got was I am out of work, I have expenses, that is not what we agreed to etc. Now to be fair he did give us were the takings of the donation box no more than a few 100 dollars, I can only assume the figures were correct. However nothing from product sales. At the 2007 International Motorcycle Show he reported grossing $7K cash plus. That would net approx $4K just one event a long time ago show me the money. We walked away feeling a bit foolish and duped. I do not fault any corporation or car dealership who did the same thing we did. It is called trust a human flaw I suppose. If I couild turn back the hands of time......

So here we are now some 2 years later. I have a crazy idea on the Red Fridays Foundation they articulate they will "donate" to the Tony Stacey Centre, The RCL comforts fund, and The Cdn Hearing Society. Why not releave the Foundation of such a heavy burden and donate directly to these worthy causes.

On another matter what do you guys think about the petition/letter and or calls to the dealership and thje Chrysler Corp. "Get that Car off the road".


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## Leebaby (29 May 2008)

I'll sign the petition to get the car off the road.


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## TSL (29 May 2008)

Red Fridays Foundation claims that they have not received complaints about their rally/drive (as of the other day anyway!) 

I would like to encourage all of you, who have issue with ANY PART of this weekends events to email them to his site! 

Sometimes we complain a lot  to each other but never to those who we are truly upset with ... Do not be silent ... send your thoughts


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## Loachman (29 May 2008)

TSL said:
			
		

> Red Fridays Foundation claims that they have not received complaints about their rally/drive (as of the other day anyway!)



Perhaps they're not reading their mail.

They are certainly not responding immediately.


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## Yrys (29 May 2008)

TSL said:
			
		

> Red Fridays Foundation claims that they have not received complaints about their rally/drive (as of the other day anyway!)
> 
> I would like to encourage all of you, who have issue with ANY PART of this weekends events to email them to his site!



Erased my line with their address. Sorry about that .


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## George Wallace (29 May 2008)

Perhaps their "SPAM FILTER" filters more than just Spam.



> To combat spam we require you to enter the answer to the security question on the left.


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## Yrys (29 May 2008)

Well, I can't get pass that filter (answered 5 questions so far)   !

add :

(What color do you wear on Fridays? , The capital of Canada , What month is Canada Day? What city is the rally starting in? , 
How many Canadian soldiers have been lost?, Enter Canada in caps. , What Canadian road is known as the Highway of Heros? ,
What is the month after July.  , What month is Christmas? )


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## McG (29 May 2008)

While I appreciate that many are not pleased with Red Fridays Foundation of Canada and a lot of what it has done.  As a preemptive caution, please do not use this site as a stagging area to coordinate actions against that organization.


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## PMedMoe (29 May 2008)

Yrys said:
			
		

> Well, I can't get pass that filter (answered 5 questions so far)   !
> 
> add :
> 
> ...



So, makes it darn near impossible for a comment to get to them?  Nice.  Bet if you want to register for a donation it's much easier.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (29 May 2008)

I sent them an email saying I would NOT be supporting the Rally or anything from/about them.  And that I thought that is was in extremely poor taste to not ask the family of the fallen if they could put their names on the car.  And I also asked them how much money had actually been sent, besides the $1000.   The response I got was 'We are sorry you won't be attending the rally, but thank you for supporting Red Fridays.'  
And I also noticed that they had taken a certain Cpl pic off their website that was on this morning.
This is me shaking my head in disgust : GRRRRR :threat:


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## Kennbard (30 May 2008)

There are several issues I don't like about Brian Muntz's Red Friday operations He states: "that a charity cannot donate to a charity.... Well I belong to a charity and we donate to all sorts of other charities and non - profit organizations, there are others who do the same ie LIONS CLUB, ROTARY, KIWANIS, ELKS, CHURCHES, they are all non profit and they donate to all sorts of non - profit and charitable organizations.  United Way is another organization which donates to a multitude of charities and non- profit organizations.  Makes ya wanna go... MMMMM !! Red Friday is a profit making business, a question should be asked, should they be allowed to collect money under the claims of donations to run its operations?  Red Friday claims that the cost of running the event in May will cost upward of $10,000 just for the staging and speakers system.  How come he didn't ask the suppliers to donate the items ie: staging, mics, electronics in lieu of advertising, which I am sure has a greater return in community appreciation.  We run many events where large corporations donate the equipment without charge as long as they get to put up a banner.  I have borrowed a staging unit and speaker system for other events at a fraction of the cost.  If Mr. B. Muntz and his organization want the trust of the people I believe he should have a separate agency collect and audit the monies and become a nonprofit organization.  Making money on this events such as this and the reason behind it is an insult.
From an ol' Vet


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## Yrys (30 May 2008)

ENGINEERS WIFE said:
			
		

> I sent them an email saying I would NOT be supporting the Rally or anything from/about them.



That may seem lame or basic, but how did you send the email  ?


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## Strike (30 May 2008)

Kennbard said:
			
		

> There are several issues I don't like about Brian Muntz's Red Friday operations He states: "that a charity cannot donate to a charity.... Well I belong to a charity and we donate to all sorts of other charities and non - profit organizations, there are others who do the same ie LIONS CLUB, ROTARY, KIWANIS, ELKS, CHURCHES, they are all non profit and they donate to all sorts of non - profit and charitable organizations.  United Way is another organization which donates to a multitude of charities and non- profit organizations.  Makes ya wanna go... MMMMM !! Red Friday is a profit making business, a question should be asked, should they be allowed to collect money under the claims of donations to run its operations?  Red Friday claims that the cost of running the event in May will cost upward of $10,000 just for the staging and speakers system.  How come he didn't ask the suppliers to donate the items ie: staging, mics, electronics in lieu of advertising, which I am sure has a greater return in community appreciation.  We run many events where large corporations donate the equipment without charge as long as they get to put up a banner.  I have borrowed a staging unit and speaker system for other events at a fraction of the cost.  If Mr. B. Muntz and his organization want the trust of the people I believe he should have a separate agency collect and audit the monies and become a nonprofit organization.  Making money on this events such as this and the reason behind it is an insult.
> From an ol' Vet



Wow, sounds familiar.  Sounds like he has a canned e-mail he sends out to those who complain.

Hmmm, they don't like that we've got a car with names?  Gotta insert this paragraph.  Oh, now they have an issue with our being a registered business?  This statement here will do quite well.


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## Agent13 (30 May 2008)

Hi, I'm one of the 83 private citizens that has donated the use of a red car & my time & fuel to participate in this event. I thought I was doing this to honour our troops & families. I also have my friend (Reservist) with me who will be deployed mid July. Now I don't know what to think of all of this. I just started reading about it yesterday, but I have commited to being there Saturday.  :-\


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## Strike (30 May 2008)

Agent13,

We might all sit here and b&%^h and complain about this certain "company" but don't let that stop you from showing your support.  You signed up to do just that.  Don't back out now.


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## Agent13 (30 May 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Agent13,
> 
> We might all sit here and b&%^h and complain about this certain "company" but don't let that stop you from showing your support.  You signed up to do just that.  Don't back out now.



I will do what I said I would, and I really want to show support & spend a bit more time with my buddy, before he gets deployed. It's just kind of an unsettled feeling to think you are doing something to show support & say thankyou, and then this gets in the way. I have nothing to do with any of the business ? I just happen to live in a military town, have friends & family in the military & wanted to show support. I signed on here to just say why I am one of the people participating. Hey, I might stick around for a bit too.
My Grandfather was a Merchant Mariner. HMCS Cornwallis, Dec 3rd 1944.


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## teddybear (30 May 2008)

So much for him removing any names of the car. My girlfriend emailed the website asking for her husband's name to be removed and to tell them how upset she was that she had not been contacted. Here is the response:

Dear Mrs. Arnold,



            We here at the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada value the opinions and comments of families of fallen soldiers and would like to thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.



            With regards to your husbands name appearing on the Red Fridays Car, I understand your position and would like to express on behave of the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada, our deepest sympathies over the loss of your husband.  I can not even imagine what your family has going through, nor would I pretend to.  The Red Friday’s car was created and designed as a cenotaph to the soldiers that we have lost since entering the conflict in Afghanistan, as well to help gain support for our serving men and women that are currently serving overseas.  Our upcoming event on the 31st of May is to pay tribute to not only the men and women we have lost, but their families for making the ultimate sacrifice.  I am sorry that our foundation did not contact you; however, we did not know how to contact you or where to even begin looking for the information to make contact.  I understand your feelings, and respect your position, the statement of this being a “fun filled day for the whole family” was taken out of context, and I am sorry those words struck you in the manner in which they did; they have since been removed from our literature and our website.  This event is to pay tribute to the men and women we have lost and a memorial ceremony is scheduled to take place upon our arrival in Downsview Park.  At this time there are currently 32 members of families of the fallen who are planning on taking part in this event and joining us as we celebrate the lives of the men and women we have lost and the sacrifices they have made.



            With regards to the removal of your husbands name from the car for this Saturday, because of the design of the graphic, and the location of your husbands name we will not be able to honour that request.  Furthermore, several members of your husband’s immediate family will be on hand during this event and have requested, several weeks ago, that his name remain on the car during the rally, and for the duration of the cars existence. 

Again, this is meant as no disrespect to you or your sacrifice, but your husband’s name is beside the men that died along side of him, and their families will also be in attendance.



            I would like to take this time and opportunity to invite you personally to take part in this event, and come see for yourself what it is that the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada is trying to do in honour of your husband, and the other 82 service men and women we have lost since 2002. 

I have made arrangements for accommodations for the families as well as a bus company has provided a bus for all of the families to travel down the highway of heroes together, these same accommodations can be made for you

and your families should you like to partake in this event.   I have

personally worked with several families with regards to this event, including your husbands, the family of Pte. David Byers, and several others and I would be honoured to do the same for you and your family I can be reached either by e-mail via this address or by telephone at 613-779-9699.



Also, this is a link to our official press release with regards to this event http://www.redfridays.ca/pressreleases/rdr_may%2028_2008.htm



Sincerely,





Brandon Arnold

Ambassador for Red Fridays Foundation/Event Coordinator


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## armyvern (30 May 2008)

teddybear said:
			
		

> So much for him removing any names of the car. My girlfriend emailed the website asking for her husband's name to be removed and to tell them how upset she was that she had not been contacted. Here is the response:
> 
> Dear Mrs. Arnold,
> 
> ...



I'm surprised that he didn't know how to contact her -- or even "where to begin looking" for contact info given that he then states that several members of her husbands "immediate" family will be there and have asked for his name to remain on the car. Being his wife, "she" *would* be his immediate designated "NOK".

This public dissention is very sad to see and my heart goes out to her.

Bottom line is folks, if you want to support charities - donate to those charities *directly*, at least then you can be sure your money makes it to them.

Foundations do not have to answer to you when you query "where exactly" the money went. Their books are not open to public scrutiny as they are not registered ... and you take your chances. _*Always*_ read the fine print.


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## teddybear (30 May 2008)

What's funny Vern is that we get all kinds of invitations and offers by other organizations. They contact the Centre who passes it along to us. They don't give out our addresses but they do forward it to us. If this organization wanted to reach that should have been the route to take....contact VAC or DND. Flip side is maybe they did and the Centre did not support them.


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## LadySierra (30 May 2008)

WOW!

Ok first of all, CaptainJ, you've helped us through it all. We knew it was going to be intense and rough on us, but you're encouragement and kind words helped us along the way. It's great having you by our side!! 
You know I've heard it so many times, but everytime I see/hear/read that info that you posted it flabbergasts me all over again!! I just cant fathom it. 

Agent13, no one is trying to discourage you from doing what you've planned to do, all we're asking is that people educate themselves regarding the RFFD. Your personal reasons for taking part are VERY sincere in the fact that you are doing so to support your friend. Do everything you can to support your friend and know that we as well will be supporting him also every time we put on a piece of red clothing on Friday's or every time we slap a support magnet on our vehicles.. etc.. All the best to your friend as he embarks on his mission to serve his country.

Teddybear, I have no words. I'm simply appalled! After all the rantings about how they would honor any families who request to have the names of their loved ones removed or not included in this weekends events. 
Just a couple mornings ago, over the airways in Toronto, an RFFD of Canada rep stated just that! Not only that, it was also in the newspaper articles that have come out in the last couple of days. 

They say they have not received any complaints, but that leaves me wondering if that is true, or are they just stating that they've not received any because they don't wanna deal with it. As stated in the email to Mrs. Arnold, due to the nature of the graphic, it's impossible to remove. WHY make a statement indicating they would honor the requests if it's impossible. 
Whether they could get phone numbers or not is not the point. There are other methods of contact. They claim to have been planning/organizing this event for a VERY long time. Well to me that VERY long time seems long enough to have explored other avenues to get in contact with the families. This contact could have been done by way of 3rd party. In fact, TSL just happens to know someone who without invading ANY privacy was able to forward condolences cards to each family by using the bases as 3rd parties. Therefore, no addresses nor phone numbers were provided and no privacies were invaded! 
Why could the RFFD not have thought of something like that? Too much work maybe? Well that's too bad, if you want to put on such a large scale event then the time must be taken to cover allllll of your bases! To make sure that no stone is left unturned!! 

To those of you that have tried unsuccessfully to contact the RFFD or redfridays.ca, keep trying. Let them know how you feel. This is getting out of hand in my opinion and something needs to be done.


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## Loachman (30 May 2008)

LadySierra said:
			
		

> Agent13, no one is trying to discourage you from doing what you've planned to do ... Your personal reasons for taking part are VERY sincere



Agreed, and the same for the other participants.


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## LadySierra (30 May 2008)

Local organizers defend Red Fridays Rally

Huge highway procession, ceremony to honour troops goes Saturday
Wed May 28, 2008

By Jillian Follert



DURHAM -- A massive event to commemorate Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan is scheduled to hit the streets this Saturday but organizers aren't getting the kind of publicity they had hoped for.

Brian Wilkins, the Durham Region spokesman for the Red Fridays Foundation, has been fielding calls and speaking on GTA radio stations this week, trying to combat negative allegations about the Red Fridays Rally.

The event will see hundreds of cars travel the Highway of Heroes from Trenton to Toronto, ending with a ceremony at Downsview Park.

The procession will include 83 red vehicles, one for every soldier who has died in Afghanistan, and will be led by a donated Dodge Magnum rally car painted with the name of each fallen soldier.

At issue are complaints from the original founders of the Red Fridays movement -- which encourages Canadians to wear red on Fridays as a show of support for the troops -- who say the rally organizers didn't have permission to put the names of the soldiers on the lead car and that the Red Fridays Foundation is not a registered charity.

Mr. Wilkins said the concerns stem from misunderstandings and is distraught by widespread media coverage questioning the motives of the event.

"It's discouraging. We just wanted to do something to show our troops we're behind them," said Mr. Wilkins, an Oshawa resident who spent six months driving a fuel truck on the Canadian Forces base in Kandahar.

He said the names of the fallen soldiers on the car are not intended to be an advertisement, partisan political statement or anything other than a simple tribute done with the best of intentions.

Regardless, reports in the Toronto media have quoted relatives of fallen soldiers saying they want nothing to do with the rally, and want their loved ones names taken off the car.

[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]_*Event organizer Brian Muntz has said he will remove names from the car if families request it.*_[/size][/size][/size][/size]

On the topic of fundraising, Mr. Wilkins confirmed the Red Fridays Foundation is not a registered charity -- a fact that is published on the Red Fridays website.

He said this was done intentionally because Canadian law precludes registered charities from donating to other registered charities.

The foundation plans to donate proceeds from Saturday's rally to four charities: the Canadian Hearing Society (which supplies vets with TTY phones), Friends of Veterans Canada, Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans Care and the Troop Morale Fund sponsored by the Royal Canadian Legion.

"We are a non-profit group, we aren't making any money from this at all," Mr. Wilkins said.

He encouraged people who are uncomfortable donating to the foundation to donate directly to one of the above listed charities or to simply attend the rally without making a donation or collecting pledges.

"The main goal of this is just to show support for our soldiers over there, to have lots of people come out and take that message to Afghanistan," he said.

So far, Mr. Wilkins said the foundation has raised about $11,000 and has spent $7,500 on costs for the rally, like lighting, a stage and gas for the lead car.

Bowmanville resident Paul Caswell doesn't see any problem with the event.

In fact, the father of local fallen soldier Darryl Caswell will be driving one of the 83 red cars at the front of the procession.

"I don't have any concerns at all, I think this is a great thing," he said.

The rally starts at noon on May 31 at Centennial Park in Trenton. The main procession will be released from the park at 3 p.m. and travel to Downsview Park in Toronto, where a ceremony will be held. OPP, local police and Canadian Army Veteran Riders will escort the procession along the route.


Obviously, not all families protest the fact that this is happening and that the names of their loved ones are being paraded, but some do and for those that do, they deserve some RESPECT!!
(to be quite honest though, this is the first quote I've seen from a family member that DOES support it)

As for Mr. Muntz's quote up there, totally contradicts the email response received from Mrs. Arnold don't you think?!?!?! Raises even more questions


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## TSL (30 May 2008)

I have an email that was sent out aprox. 13mths ago outlining the plans to hold this said event 
So, you are right, they should have had plenty of time to look into how to contact family members 

As I stated in an early post, regarding the families wishes, all families should have been asked (so they contacted parents and not the widows in some or most cases and only a handful at best) IF for any reason there was not an agreement between the parents and the widow ... scrap it! It will, and probably is going to, cause issues in the family connection ... and lets remember in a lot of cases CHILDREN are involved! 

As a mother of children who ask alot of questions, my heart breaks for the children who might  ask  questions about this event and why their Daddy's name is being used or what it all means .... I know that this might not happen ... but WHAT IF???

Keep wearing your RED on Fridays, wear proudly


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## Edward Campbell (30 May 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> While I appreciate that many are not pleased with Red Fridays Foundation of Canada and a lot of what it has done.  As a preemptive caution, please do not use this site as a stagging area to coordinate actions against that organization.



As a fairly senior member of Army.ca, I want to add my voice.

I *know little* about Red Fridays Foundation of Canada and what it has done or plans to do. That being stipulated, I'm a bit concerned about the *possibility* that this thread might go from being a legitimate way for some very concerned individuals to express their concerns and change into a _dogpile_.

_Dogpiles_ have their place, I guess, but gratuitous attacks, etc, are not the Army.ca _way_, in my opinion.


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## Hawk (30 May 2008)

Have any of you looked up Brian Muntz website. I just googled his name. He's just doing what he's educated to do - marketing.

As for poor taste, etc. you've all mirrored my opinions.


Hawk

modified because I can't seem to type right today


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## Weinie (30 May 2008)

Hey Lady Sierra,

PM inbound


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## Harley Sailor (30 May 2008)

First I have to say that I Concur with most of what has been said here.

I am a little confused about a couple of things.  The first is simple, why is a Red Friday Rally being held on Saturday. Should it not be a red Saturday rally?

Second is a little more important in my mind.  I thought the Red Fridays were in support of the serving troops.  Truly nothing against the families of the members KIA, but they are not the troops.  In the same manner, the Red Fridays are not for the families of the lucky members who have returned.  Why has this rally been made all about the KIA members and their families.


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## LadySierra (30 May 2008)

Thank you Weinie!!!

Just a point of interest to anyone in the area... Tomorrow in Bowmanville there will be a "Durham Support Our Troops Rally"
in conjuction with Canadian Forces day which is being held at 
Clarington Fields, 2375 Baseline Rd. W. beginning at 11:30am

"The event features guests from the Canadian Forces, local community organizations and the Ontario Regiment. A Legion pipe and drum band and the Clarington Concert Band will be performing......
The day will feature a barbecue, music, military speakers, displays, and bands.......Participants in the rally include The Ontario Regiment RCAC, local cadet units, the Clarington Concert Band, former residents of Afghanistan and more"


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## LadySierra (30 May 2008)

Harley Sailor said:
			
		

> I am a little confused about a couple of things.  The first is simple, why is a Red Friday Rally being held on Saturday. Should it not be a red Saturday rally?
> 
> Second is a little more important in my mind.  I thought the Red Fridays were in support of the serving troops.  Truly nothing against the families of the members KIA, but they are not the troops.  In the same manner, the Red Fridays are not for the families of the lucky members who have returned.  Why has this rally been made all about the KIA members and their families.



Harley, we are not sure why the focus is being put solely on those who have been KIA. That's a good questions to ask a rep from the Red Friday's Foundation. 

As for the Saturday part, unfortunately plans cannot always accommodate a Friday event, therefore Saturday (or other days of the week) is used to commemorate Red Friday. If that makes any sense at all..  ??? 
One would think they would call it a Red Saturday or a Red Tuesday or whatever, but because the actual campaign itself is "Red Fridays", I gather people like to stick to that official name..... (my thought's only)

I would however like to clear up one misconception... The Red Friday's campaign was established to show support for the troops AND their families, as sacrifices are made by both.


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## TSL (30 May 2008)

Harley Sailor said:
			
		

> Second is a little more important in my mind.  I thought the Red Fridays were in support of the serving troops.  Truly nothing against the families of the members KIA, but they are not the troops.  In the same manner, the Red Fridays are not for the families of the lucky members who have returned.  Why has this rally been made all about the KIA members and their families.




Red Fridays, or the act of wearing red on fridays, is about more than showing support for our deployed troops (land, sea, air) it's about ALL of our CF members and of course thier families (those who wear the invisible uniform) 
It's also more than just showing 'Support' 
it's about saying all those things we might never get the chance to say to a soldier (if we are not personally know any) things like 'Thank you' 'thinking of you and your family' 'we are proud of you and what you are doing' ETC ... 
I was quoted once for saying 'Wearing Red is like giving our military the round of applause they deserve' 

Red Fridays is about alot of things ... each person who wears red, does so for thier own reasons ... but the idea is pretty much the same 

it's about showing our militiary families our support, appreciation and our pride

As for the Saturday thing ... I think Lady Sierra covered that


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## Agent13 (30 May 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Agreed, and the same for the other participants.



Thanks. I'm glad I signed on here. I really didn't know what to think when I read the SUN the other day. But, I am participating for the reasons I stated & my friend is very happy that we are doing this.
The last thing I'd want to do is upset a family member of friend of our military by showing my support. 
Now if the weather will just co-operate a bit.
Thanks again for the feedback, it does matter.

Regards


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## LadySierra (30 May 2008)

Agent13, Showing your support should NEVER upset anyone. 
I hope you continue to show your support in the future, your friend will appreciate it as will all other forces member's and families. 

Enjoy you day tomorrow!! 

Cheers.


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## Strike (30 May 2008)

Agent13,

I hope you post some pictures.  Hopefully people will be on the overpasses.  I think it will be good for those that regularly watch the processions see it in a less somber situation.


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## Agent13 (30 May 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Agent13,
> 
> I hope you post some pictures.  Hopefully people will be on the overpasses.  I think it will be good for those that regularly watch the processions see it in a less somber situation.



I'd be more than happy to do that. Reminds me to go out & get fresh batteries for the camera, nothing worse than that. My buddy got permission from his CO to wear the uniform he will wear on his posting, he was happy about that. I don't know the difference, I'll find out tomorrow.
I was also thinking of putting my Grandfathers name/date on the bottom of the large Flag I have on the dash, my Father would really appreaciate that.

I'll post pictures on Sunday
Cheers


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## morninggirl (30 May 2008)

Re: Mrs. Arnold's Letter     

_With regards to the removal of your husbands name from the car for this Saturday, because of the design of the graphic, and the location of your husbands name we will not be able to honour that request.  Furthermore, several members of your husband’s immediate family will be on hand during this event and have requested, several weeks ago, that his name remain on the car during the rally, and for the duration of the cars existence. _ 

What about the rest of the family that wanted his name on the car??  No offence but based on the news coverage they did get permission from someone?


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## teddybear (30 May 2008)

Based on news coverage, they said they would remove the name if there was any objection to it. Fact is that Kerry Arnold is her husband's NOK. And from what I know, the foundation did not contact his family. It was another family that passed the info on to them. They for sure did not contact any member of my husband's family...therefore no permission for my husband's name to be put on that car.


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## captainj (31 May 2008)

No need to be polite here, the local Durham Region news stated the Kerry Arnold recanted her objection IAW with the Red Fridays mouth peice.  To be fair it was a very one sided article  aka local Durham guys defend Red fridays Foundation.  Seems that is not the case as Kerry who I love to bits did not say this , she still wants the love of her life off the car if I read it right. Well guys I am confused at the end of the day the Red Fridays Foundation is a collection of dirt bags who profit from the misery of our boys and girls end of story. There I said it I feel a lot better so sue me I think I hold the moral high ground here I have been a Assisting Officer for an incredable wounded young chap since Sept 2006, he is my baby.  We both look at this org with awe and what we find on our shoes on a spring day where lots of dogs are running. Again I say lets take it to the street and tell Chrysler get that car off the road













. You know wha


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## LilMissChicky (31 May 2008)

Cpl Glen Arnold's name has just been removed/covered up for this event. OPP will ensure it will stay covered. 
To Kerry, your wishes has been granted. 
If anyone needs pictures of their beloved's name on there, let me know... I have them from all angles.
The answer I received from Mr Muntz was no permission is needed since these name are now are public domain!!!! Funny this excuse didn't go so well with me in regards to Glen's name... he removed it right on the spot... police watching, and me videotaping him.

One weird sign... it was retardly dark, dark clouds and pouring rain and as soon as the name got covered up... bright blue sky!


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## teddybear (31 May 2008)

Thank you very much Roadrunner. I'm positive Kerry will be very happy. As for the news saying that Kerry recanted her request....I don't think so. Her response back to the foundation was remove it or else!!!


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## Trinity (31 May 2008)

RoadRunner said:
			
		

> One weird sign... it was retardly dark, dark clouds and pouring rain and as soon as the name got covered up... bright blue sky!



Not weird at all.


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## armyvern (31 May 2008)

RoadRunner said:
			
		

> The answer I received from Mr Muntz was no permission is needed since these name are now are public domain!!!!



Lots of names are public domain -- but I'd like to think the good rule of law would evidence that you just can't up and use Britney Spears' image or name in your own 'for-profit' business advertising or fundraising without the express written consent of the individual or their estate (in the case of hmmm say ... Elvis), else you'd see your butt being sued forthwith. I wonder why he thinks he can do so (or even thinks it's acceptable to do so) when it's a soldier's name or image being 'used'?


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## X-mo-1979 (31 May 2008)

I had a firm stand on this at first but after reading many of your responses it doesnt seem so cut and dry to me anymore.

The big question is who does own the name of the deceased?Is it the family of the person, the wife,the children?NOK?
Must be hard on everyone involved when it come's to thing like this where the family doesnt agree.

I'm glad kerry's wish was granted however.I cant imagine how hard it is.


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## tech2002 (31 May 2008)

I am very surprised that the organizer didn't ask for permission, I don;t know what they thought.. , I have committed to show up with few of my friends at downsview park, hopefully it will be ok..


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## Welshy (31 May 2008)

I was driving up from London to Kingston and passed by the Rally today. It was very heart warming to see all those people out on the over passes especially given the weather along the route. The convoy of red cars was also impressive and I especially liked the semi that was painted up with the CF troops on it.. One thing I did notice though was that there was a lot of backed up traffic behind the convoy and they had only gotten about 5KM at that point. Seems like it was probably pissing off all those people who were stuck in the gridlock behind it.


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## captainj (31 May 2008)

Army Vern

You are quite correct re public domain. Folks the way this works in law is if you pose or have your picture taken at a public event or place it can be used by recognized media. It can only be used for general purposes by the media. The laws position is that the person and or survivor has control of their image and name. Remember this org used the CDS's image on the donate now button some time ago. The original picture of the Dodge Magnum Wagon had LCol Simon Heatherington in front of the car. Guess what ? They photo shopped him without permission. In the case of Sapper (now Cpl) McTeague they were asked to remove Mikes image and all ref to him from the site. The Red Fridays Foundation blew him off and stopped answering his emails after he asked a couple of questions on where the money goes and how much have you raised etc. It took the Tor Sun story to motivate them to remove it. Good thing for them as I know for a fact legal action was being started. As a business he would be req to have a models release this would also be the same for a charity who was seeking the use of a image and name. Be aware they do not stop at images and names. There was a time when they had Canada Posts corp gif posted as a sponsor. As anyone with a Fed Dept knows we are very careful with "sponsorship/partnership" these days. The gif was removed very quickly after Canada Post told them to. 

I have said this before and will say it again our fallen names belong in unit lines, cenotaphs/memorials, gravestones, and yes street signs. There have been a number of cases where a town has named a street or square after these great Canadians with permission. Their names do not belong on the side of a commercial enterprise. Rik Davie the Editor of the Scugog Standard said it best in the 30 May issue as follows;

_"The last mention of this is of a purely personal nature. This foundation has a vehicle donated by a car dealership that has the names of our war dead plastered across the side of it like a rolling tombstone. My surname is carved into the side of of the Vimy Memorial. Were that name to appear on the side of a car in the way presented above I believe I would do whatever possible to remove it"._

Would one of you be so kind and post todays (Saturday  31 May) Toronto Star story page A3, some interesting tid bits. As I just mastered the Rotory phone last week I may screw up the cut and paste and suffer another flogging by the DS LOL.


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## tech2002 (31 May 2008)

I have just came back from the downsview, took couple shots I think less then 200 people were at the location, it was ok..


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## X-mo-1979 (31 May 2008)

I guess Cpl Arnold's name was not removed?


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## LilMissChicky (31 May 2008)

It was covered and I guess someone removed it!


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## captainj (31 May 2008)

Folks the way this works in law is if you pose or have your picture taken at a public event or place it can be used by recognized media. It can only be used for general purposes by the media. The laws position is that the person and or survivor has control of their image and name.

It is clear that this org has no honour nor honesty period. While legal action is drastic and it should never come to that with normal reasonable folks. This is one for the court of public opinion if every person who found this car offencive picked up the phone and asked for the General Manager of Scarsview Chrysler 416 281 6200 and politely but firmly expressed our displeasure I think it might sink in.

I for one am calling Monday AM


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## LadySierra (31 May 2008)

I am way too tired to make much comment on this tonight, I've just returned home from a very long day/trip to Bowmanville, Ont, and back, today for an AMAZING support rally (not in conjunction with todays "other" events)
but I have to say that I'm appalled!! 
After the things I've seen and read today, including an attempted "slam" against Lisa and I on NATIONAL television, I'm stunned!! Absolutely and completely stunned... I just don't understand how people can behave in such a manner!

I applaud all of you for standing up for what you believe in and for supporting Kerry Arnold in her quest to have her husband's name removed from that vehicle. 
To those of you who were able to set all differences, feelings and opinions aside and showed up wherever you were today to show your support, I salute you!

As a side note, I too wonder why I can see Cpl Arnold's name on the side of that vehicle in the pictures above after reading that it was to have been covered up... perhaps it was just a 'timing' issue, I don't know.......

  

(captainj, we need to chat, we'll be in touch soon   )


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## Agent13 (31 May 2008)

My buddy & I just got back to Belleville a little while ago. We are in the last picture posted, he is wearing his uniform. It was a good day, I participated for my own reasons and am glad I did.   Amazing the weather held out all the way there & back.
I have lots of pictures, I'll have to figure out how to post them on this forum & I'll put them up.
Met some great people today for sure.


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## Strike (31 May 2008)

Hit "Additional Options" on the left just below the text box.


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## Agent13 (31 May 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Hit "Additional Options" on the left just below the text box.



Thanks.


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## Agent13 (1 Jun 2008)

More pics.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (1 Jun 2008)

Red Rally convoy retraces final journey of fallen Canadian soldiers 


Sat May 31, 7:54 PM

  
TRENTON, Ont. - Dressed in red and waving Canadian flags, people of all ages came out to rally in support of troops fighting in Afghanistan, and especially the 83 that have paid the ultimate price, as part of the first "Red Rally." 


A massive convoy estimated to be about 1,000 motorcycles and vehicles long snaked along Hwy 401 between Trenton, Ont., and Toronto throughout the afternoon to retrace the route fallen soldiers take when they are repatriated to Canada. 


That stretch has been named the Highway of Heroes. 


The rally included 83 red vehicles, the donated lead car bearing the names of all those who have died while serving in Afghanistan. 


A painted transport truck depicting a Canadian Forces motif and a bus loaded with the relatives of 13 deceased soldiers also joined the convoy, which was greeted by cheering supporters at every overpass along the highway. 


It's a scene not altogether uncommon when the body of a dead soldier is returned to Canada, but organizer Brian Muntz said relatives are not always able to appreciate the moving display of support when they're in the throws of sorrow. 


"There are many families who either didn't have the opportunity to see the people on the bridges and to go down the Highway of Heroes, and some of them who don't remember much of it when it happened and they wanted to do it again," he said. 


Jane Byers, whose son David was killed by a suicide bomber in September 2006, said it was an emotional day, but one that gives her a chance to thank all those who've supported her family. 


"That September afternoon when we left Trenton with our son, it took us by total surprise seeing the amount of people who had come out to show us that the people of Canada really do care," she said. 


"Today, I would like to express my thanks to the people who take the time to come out and honour our sons, daughters, husbands, fathers, brothers wives and sisters. 


"We cannot express the feelings that we had on that day or even for the support that is shown us here today," she said before the first batch of vehicles began pulling out. 


The day began below stormy skies and amid some controversy but it wasn't long before the sun came out along with the families who had nothing but positive things to say about the event. 


The original founders of the Red Fridays campaign, which urges Canadians to support the military by wearing red on the last day of the work week, raised concerns about the rally earlier in the week, suggesting some military families didn't approve of having their loved ones' names printed on a vehicle. 


Muntz said the people behind the Red Rally campaign are also doing good work and he was "saddened" by the reaction. 


Christine Caswell, whose stepson Darryl was the 57th soldier to die in Afghanistan, said she was "bewildered" by all the negative press. 


"It took a lot of work to do this and no matter what way the troops get their support, it doesn't matter," she said after a brief pre-rally ceremony that included speeches and a pipe and drum presentation. 


"It's people out there giving support and that's the important thing." 

Caswell came to the event from Bowmanville, Ont., and enjoyed the opportunity to swap tales with other relatives. Among them were Juanita Bartsh and her husband who travelled all the way from Whitecourt, Alta., to witness the route their deceased son Cole took when he was returned home to Canada last July. 

"I think it's wonderful that this many people want to remember our boys," Bartsch said. 

"I think the more people that support and know the boys, what the boys are doing, the better it makes me feel." 

Muntz said the event was also aimed at raising money for the Canadian Hearing Society, which supports Canadian veterans. 

Many veterans, cadets, nearby residents and people with loved ones in the armed forces were among the participants. Even a reservist in army fatigues joined the festivities. 

"It's a good opportunity for me to come out here and show my support for my fellow soldiers, fallen or not," said Cpl. Victor Hriech, who is based in Trenton, noting he trained with several of the deceased soldiers and considers them his "very, very good friends." 

Muntz said his parents were liberated by Canadian troops in the Netherlands during the Second World War and that he founded the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada, which ran the event, out of a deep respect for the troops. 

"I was taught to always respect this country for what they had done for our family," he said. 

"This is just something I wanted to do out of my heart."


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (1 Jun 2008)

I wonder how much money was raised with this rally and I wonder how much of it will actually go to the charities that Brian Muntz has chosen? :  

And I am sorry that Mrs. Arnold's wishes were not followed through with.  :'(


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## Agent13 (1 Jun 2008)

"It's a good opportunity for me to come out here and show my support for my fellow soldiers, fallen or not," said Cpl. Victor Hriech, who is based in Trenton, noting he trained with several of the deceased soldiers and considers them his "very, very good friends." 

That's my buddy Vic.


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## PMedMoe (1 Jun 2008)

It would seem that Cpl Arnold's name was never removed or covered up at all.

Article Link

'Red Rally' rolls down Highway of Heroes

The first "Red Rally" in support of Canadian soldiers kicked off Saturday afternoon in Trenton, Ont., as a contingent of motorcycles and cars retraced the journey a fallen soldier takes when repatriated to Canada.

CTV.ca News Staff

The event started with clouds in the sky and controversy brewing from some military families, but the sun came out and the family members of 13 fallen soldiers joined in the rally.

Some of the original founders of the Red Fridays Campaign raised concerns that some military families did not approve of the event because it was taking donations and that the car leading the rally was donated by a local dealership.

Brian Wilkins, a spokesperson for the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada, told CTV Newsnet he didn't know why anyone would criticize raising money for a charity.

"They supply (services) for our veterans," he said of the rally's chosen charity, the Canadian Hearing Society.

The event was led by a car with the names of the 83 soldiers who died in Afghanistan decorated on it.

Wilkins said that 510 motorcycles and 122 cars, including 83 red ones, took part in the event. They drove from Trenton to Toronto's Downsview Park along the part of Highway 401 recently renamed the "Highway of Heroes."

*He said he hadn't heard of any problems, but one woman asked that a soldier's name be taken off the car, on behalf of the fallen soldier's wife.

Wilkins said because the fallen soldier's parents were attending the rally and wanted his name on the car, and the wife did not attend the rally, they decided to keep his name on the car. *

More on article link.


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## armyvern (1 Jun 2008)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> It would seem that Cpl Arnold's name was never removed or covered up at all.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



It's very sad to see things like this play out in public. 

While I feel for the parents, Kerry Arnold is the survivor in this instance and the designated immediate primary NOK - and her husband designated her as such.  At the end of the day, if there are conflicts with names/images being "used/misused" -- it is his widow's wishs that should have prevailed.

This situation can certainly not be easy on any of the family members invovled, but all could have been avoided had the Red Friday's organization taken the proper_ legal_ steps in requesting express written consent from the Immediate designated NOK from the outset.

It's a very sad day. May we remember his sacrifice and may all of Glen's loved ones be able to overcome any obstacles and take comfort in the knowledge that we do care. 

May the media respect the dignity of the people involved and let them mourn their loss in private - that would be the respectful thing to do.


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## TSL (1 Jun 2008)

As Karen stated, her and I attended a wonderfully emotional and supportive (Support our troops) event 
it was an event that stirred the emotions and made you proud to be Canadian! 
We honoured our CF members (past, present and future) we also honoured our fallen

While driving home, we seen the drive part of the rally/event that Red Fridays Foundation of Canada held .... the people on the over passes were spectacular 
Whether I agree with the re enactment of the repat drive is neither here nor there ... SOME did and they participated to show their support 
There support was amazing regardless of our mixed feelings 

Kerry, I am saddened that you have had to deal with this emotion event 
We understand that some families of our fallen found comfort in this event and we support them in that ... but the fact is a good number of the families didn't know/ or didnt agree with the names being on the car and/or the re enactment ... and before and event like this (the drive) takes place the organization should make sure that ALL parties are comfortable with this ... give THEM the choice 

Continue to show your support ... visually &  vocally!


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## Lance (2 Jun 2008)

After following some of the media coverage on this event over the past week I decided that I would go and check out the Rally for myself.  While there I spoke to one of the organizers at length about what was said in the media.  I have to say that I got a very good impression from the man and he seemed to be to be very sincere in his desire to do something good for the troops and the families.  

Speaking of the families, from what I saw, those that did attend the rally were treated with a great deal of respect.  I am sorry to hear that there was some disagreement about Cpl. Arnold's name being on the car.  However, (and this may not be a popular opinion considering the tone of this discussion) I would think that as long as it is being displayed in good taste, which I thought it was, and the goal of the event is to show support for the troops and for the families of the fallen, then why would anybody object to it?  

I realize this may offend some of you but I have to be honest.  In my opinion, much of the information that was included in the Sun's article last week which is being repeated here seems to be more speculation than fact.  It may turn out that these people are scam-artists but before we condemn them, perhaps we should give them the benefit of the doubt.  If they really are sincere then they should be encouraged and thanked rather than attacked.

That's my two cents.  It's not intended to offend anybody and certainly not intended to disrespect Mrs. Arnold.  Hopefully everything works out for the best.


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## Roy Harding (2 Jun 2008)

Bruce87 said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> That's my two cents.  It's not intended to offend anybody and certainly not intended to disrespect Mrs. Arnold.  Hopefully everything works out for the best.



I don't think anyone is offended by your post.  But, I DO think you're missing the point.  

The organizers of this event stated that names would be removed if there were valid objections to those names being included.  Valid objections were made, names were not removed.

That's the issue, in a nutshell.


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## teddybear (3 Jun 2008)

I'm sure that the families were treated very well. If it were my son or daughter, I imagine I would forever publicly mourn my child. However, as a spouse, there comes a point where you need to move on and begin living again. Imagine how tiring it can get to be paraded about as a "celebrity". Trust me when I say there is a huge difference in my mourning period and that of my husband's extended family. He was part of our everyday lives and we have not had the luxury of taking a break from it as have the parents and siblings. No offense intended to anyone. And yes, my husband's family knows this is how I feel. The good thing about this is that we have seemed to work through our grief much quicker. We have faced every single day without him. His extended family however had the luxury after the funeral to go back home and get back to their lives. They got a break. But the flip side is that it takes longer to work through the grief as they really only notice the absence at family gatherings. Good thing is that we seem to be strong when the other part of the family needs our support. 

That being said, it's a lot of hard work to get to this point in our lives. To have our loved ones names being used whenever someone feels like it, without regard for the families wishes, is in bad taste. Had the vehicle been explained to us and permission asked, most families would have no objection. However, I personally would not like to see that car parked next to mine ever. And I don't appreciate someone thinking they can just use his name or image however they see fit. I know my husband's wishes and views on the subject. As a very private person, he would not want his name used whenever someone felt like it. And as his NOK, it is my job to make sure his wishes are followed. All the families ask is for people to consider how we feel and to actally contact us if they want to do those kinds of activities. Trust me when I say there comes a point for us when it has to end and we become private citizens again. 

We do support the troops. And if this rally had been about our serving members, rather than the fallen, no controversy would have ensued from the families of the fallen.


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## X-mo-1979 (3 Jun 2008)

Playing devil avocate (as per) I wonder if the organiser can turn around and charge people for slander if the allegations are not correct?

Personally if I was attempting to do something to support the troop's and had my name dragged through the mud (assuming the allegations that have been brought forward here are false or invalid) I would never do anything to try and support our troop's again and may take legal action against a few people.


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## armyvern (3 Jun 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Playing devil avocate (as per) I wonder if the organiser can turn around and charge people for slander if the allegations are not correct?
> 
> Personally if I was attempting to do something to support the troop's and had my name dragged through the mud (assuming the allegations that have been brought forward here are false or invalid) I would never do anything to try and support our troop's again and may take legal action against a few people.



I haven't seen the organizer's name dragged through the mud ...

I have seen the legitimate /concerns raised of his collection of donations (without receipts to donators) which he then "donates" to charities as a "foundation" (for which his foundation can collect receipts as they are then considered the "donator").

CFPSA / MFRC Red Friday's are not part and parcel of "The Red Fridays Foundation". There are also legitmate concerns with the likeness in names being utilized where one is indeed a "foundation" rather than a charity (thus is considered to be a "for profit enterprise").

CFPSA / MFRC Red Fridays are all about "Supporting Our Troops." All of them. Monies raised by CFPSA / MFRC Red Friday events, ribbons and rallys etc, goes directly towards providing services for military members and familes such as counselling, coffee breaks to get out and relax while a loved one is deployed, support groups for families, emergency & respite childcare for children of deployed members in order to allow the parent at home some time to relax, activity periods such as arts & crafts groups and peer support groups for the kids, care parcels for deployed members, etc etc.

Every dollar in profit that CFPSA / MFRC raises goes directly towards these things. 

The important thing to remember is to read the fine print of ANY entity that you would feel inclined to donate monies to, or buy merchandise from.

If you want to support a chartiable cause --- supporting that cause _*directly*_ with your donation vice going through a third party ... will go a long way to alleviate anxiety about where "exactly" your money is going. 

Saying that which I've said above is not slamming the individual. It's your money -- when in doubt ... donate it wisely. If you wish to Support your Troops with donations, there are a great many registered charitable organizations through which you can do this directly.


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## S.Stewart (3 Jun 2008)

So I wrote Brian Wilkins an email, asking a few questions regarding my views, his views, money etc. This was the reply I got....

[Fwd: concerns]‏ 
From: (email removed)
Sent: June 3, 2008 2:24:30 PM 


Hello, I'm Brian Wilkins,spokesman for the red fridays foundation of canada.I recieved your letter and would like to try and straighten out a fewissues you addressed.First off...this email will be followed by another titled pictures.

Read this and it will show you are wrong about the origins of this movement andthe website.All monies raised from this rally are ear marked,under contract to theCanadian Hearing society,they do amazing work with our veterans sufferingfrom battle induced hearing loss.As far as the $6,000 donation you mentioned,the $1,000 donation to theCFPSA was made in the fall of 2007.

The $5,000 donation recieved last week was from the Ontario Command of the Legion.Another donation was made fromthe Oshawa naval club and this money is going to the hearing society.We had 13 families who lost their sons in afghanistan at the rally onsaturday,so I don't understand how you figure this wasn;t about ourtroops.

Also in attendence was soldiers I worked with in afghanistan,and we all stood together and cried looking at the car with their friends names on it.Yes,I was in afghanistan in a civilian role from the fall of 2006 until april 2007,so please don't tell me I don't support our troops.

The hundreds Brian has helped was in the form of shirts given for their fund raising,pins,advice and in one instance,a family he gave money to because when they wanted their son buried at home instead of in ottawa, our gov't gave them $10,000 and no military funeral,she asked Brian for help with expenses and he gave.

Should her name be published,would you want yours published? We did'nt register as a charity due to the fact that charities bylaw,cannot give cash to other charities.

We are considering registering now because of all the bad response about that. People want to give, but they want a tax reciept so they can get back some of what they donated.Thats from the heart wanting some back.We have since found out that instead ofmoney we can buy things for the hearing society and stacey centre,so its not a cash donation,making being a charity better to get people off ourbacks. 

To clear up the statement you made about Lisa miller and Karen Boire'srallies,They were invited to rallies that already existed to speak.I was at the CNE last year,and Joe warmington and Wayne Johnson formed tha trally.Ottawa rally was the same thing,they were invited to speak,Petawawa they started,but with Steven Harper speaking there ,the CF set the whole rally up,once again NO cost to these ladies.Our rally was started by us from the ground up.We paid for everything because we could'nt get a stage donated or P.A system or the grounds or anything donated due to bad press and people like yourself forming opinions without looking at the facts first. 

By the way...as soon as one of our soldiers returns home from Afghanistanfor the last tour of duty...He or she becomes a vet,why should'nt we help them.Thats what we are trying to do. Please look at the other email I sent,read it ,Call Lisa and Karen andmaybe ask them why they are being less than honest about the origins ofthe website,cost of their rallies,and maybe ask them to explain why they figure any rally they aren't part of is something wrong. 

We had three of the biggest police forces in north america working hand and hand with us on this rally,OPP,toronto,and durham region, all of the fire depts,legions,all service clubs plus thousands of people lining thebridges,as well as rallies across canada at the same time as ours. 

If that isn't supporting our troops,I need to know what we missed.I hope to hear a response from you and would really like your support for next year. 

Brian Wilkins.

I again, sent an email asking about why is it that they did not attempt to register as a charity in the first place, and a few other questions, about his future plans etc in where he plans to get his organization. 

The response I got was as follows.... 

RE: [Fwd: concerns]‏ 
Fromemail removed) 
Sent: June 4, 2008 12:00:11 AM 

Thank you for answering. All monies from all sources will be disclosed even though we don't have to.Watch for news this week or very early next week.We will be presenting a cheque to the canadian hearing society for $12,000.When the rest filtersin we will disperse that and the books will be public. We never meant to hurt anyone. 

Perhaps you would recive better response if you were not a military spouse on your high horse stating facts and opinions without getting the bigger picture of those of us who are actually "supporting" the troops through the means of money.

We will be registering as a charity as soon as possible.

Brian Wilkins.


Well thank you Mr. Wilkins, I certainly now know where my money will be going and it certainly will not be to your organization, in an manner. I loved how it was assumed that I was a military spouse, instead of just a concerned party wondering where my money along with others are going. IMO this guy doesn't give a damn, about how people feel, just about how much "good" in can do in the eyes of others. 

What a clown.


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## Jaydub (3 Jun 2008)

What a wanker.  I think I might E-mail him myself.


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## PMedMoe (3 Jun 2008)

Did you cut and paste the email?  I have to ask because the grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc was.......well, it wasn't.  :

I like the little comment about 





> "People want to give, but they want a tax reciept so they can get back some of what they donated.Thats from the heart wanting some back."



Do you and your "foundation" get a tax receipt for *your* donations, Mr. Wilkins?


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## S.Stewart (3 Jun 2008)

I did cut and paste it from my email. I was wondering the same thing about that comment. Funny how it all just keeps going around in circles.


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## armyvern (3 Jun 2008)

Jaydub said:
			
		

> What a wanker.  I think I might E-mail him myself.



Good luck.

I wrote them on the 30th ... apparently they didn't much like what I had to say nor the questions that I asked.

I got the canned electronic response as follows:



> > Date: *Fri, 30 May 2008 01:00:25 -0500*
> > To: XXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com
> > From: info@redfridays.ca
> > Subject: Red Fridays Contact Form - Other
> ...



Emphasis mine. Apparently this statement within their canned response is also false, seeing that S.Stewart seems to have heard from them since - as in today.

Apparently, they've placed me on ignore --- you'd think,* that given their stated objective*, they'd be interested in responding to a soldier's email. Guess that I thought incorrectly.

Just another reason for me to be very very wary of putting my money towards this entity. I'll stick with actual honest-to-goodness registered charities - the CFPSA/MFRC who do an absolutely AWESOME job of supporting our troops each and every day.


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## Strike (3 Jun 2008)

I e-mailed them, asking about contacting families of the deceased wrt the names of the car.  There were a few e-mails back and forth, all with bad grammar.  I was getting a little annoyed with it, since I take the time to use spell check and grammar check when corresponding with ANY business.  Decided just to stop correspondence.  This is what I got back:



> Hello,I did'nt hear back from you and I was wondering if you have any further concerns.It would be great to know if we are still out of line or working for the same common goal as others are.
> 
> Its only fair that after calling us less than honourable,you would respond after me responding to you.
> 
> Brian Wilkins.



Note that I NEVER said that.  I think he's getting his e-mails mixed up.  I said their methods were questionable.


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## armyvern (3 Jun 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> I e-mailed them, asking about contacting families of the deceased wrt the names of the car.  There were a few e-mails back and forth, all with bad grammar.  I was getting a little annoyed with it, since I take the time to use spell check and grammar check when corresponding with ANY business.  Decided just to stop correspondence.  This is what I got back:
> 
> Note that I NEVER said that.  I think he's getting his e-mails mixed up.  I said their methods were questionable.





> Hello,I did'nt hear back from you and I was wondering if you have any further concerns.It would be great to know if we are still out of line or working for the same common goal as others are.
> 
> Its only fair that after calling us less than honourable,you would respond after me responding to you.
> 
> Brian Wilkins.



I just about fell off my chair after reading his quoted to you!!

Hey Brian, Red Friday's Foundation -- if you see this -- I'm that email from "golanvern" that you've yet to respond to as outlined in my post below. 

I sure as heck haven't heard back from your foundation even ONCE, which would also seem to be "only fair" no? 

Hello Pot <----> Meet Kettle


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (3 Jun 2008)

I don't know about anyone else, but I feel they more they(Red Friday Foundation) opens their mouths, the more garbage that comes out.  I would really like to believe that it is a legit, honourable cause.  Talking in circles, changing their stories, man, it makes me mad and sad all at the same time.

I have googled Brian Muntz and the Red Fridays Foundation and there is lots of interesting stuff out there and almost every article, interview has similar ideas but when asked a specific question about where the idea came from, charities and donations the answers change over time.  I don't know if he is intending this to be a money making business or a charity, he needs to sh** or get off the pot.  My beef is that I think MOST people think it's a charity and that it isn't.  

As the wife of a soldier, I feel betrayed that someone would try and make money off the backs of our fallen heroes.  
It amazes me what some would do for money.
His intentions might be well intended, but his execution sucks!

That is my rant for now, now back to our regularly scheduled program


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## armyvern (3 Jun 2008)

Edited by Vern to add clarification:

The below quote is from the email response recd by S.Stewart from Brian Wilkens on behalf of the Red Fridays Foundation (quoted from earlier post here) 


> ...
> The hundreds Brian has helped was in the form of shirts given for their fund raising,pins,advice and in one instance,a family he gave money to because when they wanted their son buried at home instead of in ottawa, our gov't gave them $10,000 and no military funeral,she asked Brian for help with expenses and he gave.
> 
> Should her name be published,would you want yours published? We did'nt register as a charity due to the fact that charities bylaw,cannot give cash to other charities.
> ...



As a qualified CAO (Casualty Assisting O), I have serious doubts as to the validity of this statement made by him above.

I have no qualms with outright calling this statement by Brian Wilkens a "lie". It is the families wishes (the immediate designated primary NOK) that determine what/where/type of funeral that will occur, NOT the government and certainly NOT the CF. Period. And, his insinuations of anything different to that are waaaayyy off base and an insult.

He can sue me.



_Edited by Vern to clarify the quoted bit & it's origin._


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## Celticgirl (3 Jun 2008)

S.Stewart said:
			
		

> People want to give, but they want a tax reciept so they can get back some of what they donated.Thats from the heart wanting some back.



I find this comment exceedingly rude.  



			
				S.Stewart said:
			
		

> We paid for everything because we could'nt get a stage donated or P.A system or the grounds or anything donated due to bad press and people like yourself forming opinions without looking at the facts first.



More rudeness from Mr. Wilkins.  :-X



			
				S.Stewart said:
			
		

> Perhaps you would recive better response if you were not a military spouse on your high horse stating facts and opinions without getting the bigger picture of those of us who are actually "supporting" the troops through the means of money.



This one just takes the cake. What a horse's gluteus maximus.  :


P.S. Is it just my imagination, or does Brian refer to himself in the third person in his letter?  :blotto:


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## S.Stewart (3 Jun 2008)

Celticgirl said:
			
		

> I find this comment exceedingly rude.
> 
> More rudeness from Mr. Wilkins.  :-X
> 
> ...



Agreed. Brian Wilkins is the voice to the media and the camera. Brian Muntz is the founder of the organization apparently. Who knows at this point I would not be surprised if they were one in the same.


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## Celticgirl (3 Jun 2008)

S.Stewart said:
			
		

> Agreed. Brian Wilkins is the voice to the media and the camera. Brian Muntz is the founder of the organization apparently. Who knows at this point I would not be surprised if they were one in the same.



Aha, that explains it. I was starting to think he was doing a really bad Tarzan impression for a moment there.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (3 Jun 2008)

About Red Fridays Foundation of CanadaRED FRIDAYS FOUNDATION OF CANADA ® & WWW.REDFRIDAYS.CA. © 2006   Red Fridays Foundation of Canada has a MBL (Master Business License) private foundation in Canada with appropriate government registrations and tax registrations. Our MBL number is 170258297. For privacy and fraud protection  we do not publish our tax registration numbers or business banking information.Red Fridays Foundation of Canada is not a charity. Our registered business activity is PUBLIC AWARENESS.
Public awareness efforts and support programs such as the Red Fridays Foundation can be costly to run. Our proceeds are used in a variety of ways including but not limited to the following: ·

Manufacturing support products and associated costs. 
Media press releases through Media Wires across Canada. ·	
Multi media publishing advertising & marketing initiatives. ·	
Shipping and receiving costs. ·	
Organizing events and related costs, permits, staff, etc. ·	
Web presence and electronic marketing. ·	
Donations of products to 3rd party initiatives in alignment with Red Fridays initiatives. ·	
Travel expenses to and from events and shows.  

The proprietor of the Foundation and immediate members of our Foundation do not draw a salary nor accept gratuities on the behalf of Red Fridays Foundation of Canada. The work efforts are on a voluntary basis. Any employees hired for specific events are contractual and paid an agreed amount for services. Public servant services and administration are paid for through the proceeds of the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada.
COMMENTS:Because we are not a charity most financial questions about Red Fridays of Canada is directed towards to why we are not  a charity and were does the money go. Our initiative and awareness campaign targets the Canadian Forces personnel we fondly call Our Troops. An old one and difficult issue for us is our Veterans. They are often left to the wayside of public support and funding and are at most times the ones that need the public support the most. These are a few items we try to address when supporting and recommending other charities and their fund raising campaigns.  When we attempted to create a public foundation that would be a charity for the above mentioned financial needs, we were initially denied for the following policies: The DND does not allow public money to go to their personnel other than the federal taxes controlled by our federal government. It is expressly prohibited for active CF personnel to except charity or gratuities on behalf of the Canadian Forces. Furthermore, it was brought to our attention during federal filings the Canadian Forces has a special service called the CFPSA (Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency) that is formed to address their military staff needs. We have discussed with the CFPSA and their departments about helping out in some way on behalf of the Red Fridays Foundation of Canada. Again being reminded they can only accept donations and not be funded by a another registered charity; our options were soon realized to be limited to becoming a charity with similar goals. Recently we have been approached by other charities that assist our veterans. These charities depend on public money to achieve their goals in assisting our veterans.  Our goal is to assist these charities through our public awareness and raising funds for their specific needs.

Public Affiliations:Red Fridays Foundation of Canada and our current members are not associates of the CFPSA or the Canadian Forces - Department of Defense (DND). Merely, our Foundation represents the citizens and civilians of Canada that care for our troops, their work, and the pursuit of peace. 
Donations to Red Fridays Foundation of Canada:We generally discourage financial donations to our foundation as we can not issue tax deductible receipts. We recommend to people that wish to make a tax deductible donation for our Canadian Troops to do so through the CFPSA.  We do accept gifts to our foundation and appreciate it very much as they are used to continue our mission of support and public awareness. 

Political Affiliations:Red Fridays Foundation of Canada does not have any affiliation with any political parties of Canada or abroad. We remain to be nonpartisan on the support we raise awareness to our serving men and woman of the Canadian Forces. Our motivation is one of thanks to our Canadian Forces for their services they provide to Canada in maintaining our sovereignty and our way of life and freedoms. Our awareness campaigns are not about any one particular mission or theatre our military are currently involved in. 

Final Thoughts:Although the manufactures of support items such as ribbons, magnets, apparel are for profit, the sales of our support items are for the awareness activities and campaigns we coordinate or assist in. Our product is public awareness and our profits are the minds and hearts we enlighten that support our Canadian Forces Troops. We are happy to announce that our goal of public awareness has been successful and we pledge to continue to be activists of support for our Canadian Forces serving men and women - the past, the present and the future. Our thanks to our troops are for the present and the past. 

On a personal note, my parents we liberated by the Canadian Forces in 1945 in The Netherlands. This Foundation also represents the gratitude many Canadian immigrants that have been liberated by the Canadian Forces that gave our home lands peace and our personal lives the freedom that only could have been made possible through the peace keeping efforts of our Canadian Forces.  -Brian MuntzFounder: Red Fridays Foundation of Canada

CLOCK ON WEB SITE: APRIL 25, 2008  3:02 PM

WAS ACTUALLY MAY 31 2008


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## Harris (3 Jun 2008)

IMO if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck...It IS a duck.  He's got way too many "issues" for me to believe it's simply a misunderstanding on our parts.  I think he's just trying to make a buck and try to look like the hero.  Instead he's making a buck and looking like a numpty.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (3 Jun 2008)

So what is this guy doing wrong?


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (3 Jun 2008)

This is copied directly off their website and many things here contradict things they have said in the media or through e-mails.  
I find it very interesting that  "We generally discourage financial donations to our foundation as we can not issue tax deductible receipts. We recommend to people that wish to make a tax deductible donation for our Canadian Troops to do so through the CFPSA. "   
But, that ain't what we heard in the news.


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## Harris (3 Jun 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> So what is this guy doing wrong?


Let's see...Not removing names from the van, even when asked by the legal NOK.  Changing the story as needed to avoid  negative public opinion.  Misleading name by using Foundation, which I submit "most" would associate with something being a charity to name a few.


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## S.Stewart (3 Jun 2008)

ENGINEERS WIFE said:
			
		

> This is copied directly off their website and many things here contradict things they have said in the media or through e-mails.
> I find it very interesting that  "We generally discourage financial donations to our foundation as we can not issue tax deductible receipts. We recommend to people that wish to make a tax deductible donation for our Canadian Troops to do so through the CFPSA. "
> But, that ain't what we heard in the news.




Round and round the BS goes, where it stops no one knows.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (3 Jun 2008)

Harris said:
			
		

> Let's see...Not removing names from the van, even when asked by the legal NOK.  Changing the story as needed to avoid  negative public opinion.  Misleading name by using Foundation, which I submit "most" would associate with something being a charity to name a few.



As for the name did other family members request it be on there?That's what was on CTV IIRC.Legal NOK means nothing to a civilian who doesn't know any better.

Misleading by calling it a foundation?He called it a foundation so he could actually donate to charties,as charties cannot donate to other charties.

As I originally stated in the beginning red Fridays Charity gets sponsors and lots of donations from the CF and surrounding business,as the founders are from the military community.This man is not.And did not receive free stuff.So how else do you organise something without money?This isn't utopia.

He said his financial dealings will be posted.

There is nothing but a bunch of rumint on this thread.People making assumptions.

The ONLY valid point I have read in this thread is of Mrs Arnold's request.I don't agree with his name not being taken down,however other family members requested it.Sounds like a family issue and not one of the organiser.
My heart does go out to Mrs Arnold,as I have seen this similar situation before with a good friend's wife and his family.

As for him not sitting down and writing each and every one of the army people he tried to dedicate something to I don't blame him.I hope he shows his financial record's,their all legit and he Tell's the army bugger off and directs the rest of the people who don't visit this web page to this thread.

I MAY be the only person on this thread that feels like this.Or the only one voicing his opinion on it,however there are MANY thread lurkers who agree.

This kind of stuff can be real bad press for the military when on national T.V army people are degrading his character.


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## Michael OLeary (3 Jun 2008)

ENGINEERS WIFE said:
			
		

> This is copied directly off their website and many things here contradict things they have said in the media or through e-mails.
> I find it very interesting that  _"We generally discourage financial donations to our foundation as we can not issue tax deductible receipts. We recommend to people that wish to make a tax deductible donation for our Canadian Troops to do so through the CFPSA. "   _
> But, that ain't what we heard in the news.



Here's their current donations page - http://www.redfridays.ca/donations.html

And, for comparison, past versions courtesy of the waybackmachine - http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.redfridays.ca/donations.html


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## Strike (3 Jun 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> As for the name did other family members request it be on there?That's what was on CTV IIRC.Legal NOK means nothing to a civilian who doesn't know any better.



Ignorance of the law is no defence.



			
				X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> There is nothing but a bunch of rumint on this thread.People making assumptions.



And examples of contradictory information from the site AND interviews given by the Foundation, along with nasty accusations and jibes by the goof ball that seems to be in charge of answering the e-mail traffic.



			
				X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> The ONLY valid point I have read in this thread is of Mrs Arnold's request.I don't agree with his name not being taken down,however other family members requested it.Sounds like a family issue and not one of the organiser.
> My heart does go out to Mrs Arnold,as I have seen this similar situation before with a good friend's wife and his family.
> 
> As for him not sitting down and writing each and every one of the army people he tried to dedicate something to I don't blame him.I hope he shows his financial record's,their all legit and he Tell's the army bugger off and directs the rest of the people who don't visit this web page to this thread.



The NOK should have final say as to what happens to the images and names of their family, especially as it pertains to a business.  Perhaps if it had been a charity, full fledged, there wouldn't be such an uproar.  As for writing ever member, it's not that hard.  One letter, fill out the appropriate names, and voila.  I don't know if it was ignorance or what.  There's no reason why the family members should not have been notified.

_spelling_


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## Harris (3 Jun 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> As for the name did other family members request it be on there?That's what was on CTV IIRC.Legal NOK means nothing to a civilian who doesn't know any better.



IMO he should know better.  And legally it doens't matter if other family members wanted his name on the van.  That's why I said Legal NOK.  Personally I'd have sued him if it were my Wife on the van without my permission.

Feel free to argue that this guy is on the up and up.  He won't be seeing a dime of my $.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (3 Jun 2008)

Military wives say a private business is running the event – and questions the founder's motives
May 31, 2008 04:30 AM 
EMILY MATHIEU 
STAFF REPORTER

Red Fridays were never supposed to be like this. 
What started as a grassroots movement to drum up support for Canadian troops overseas has turned into a controversial fundraising event and memorial rally along the Highway of Heroes, a stretch of Highway 401 from Toronto to CFB Trenton.
Red Fridays – when the public is encouraged to wear red to support our troops – were started up in Ontario by Karen Boire and Lisa Miller, both military wives. 
"Red Fridays was supposed to be an expression of support, appreciation and pride in our military," said Miller. 
It wasn't an organized movement, but it captured the public's imagination, and became a grassroots success. 
Then a new group called the Red Fridays Foundation started up. It has organized today's rally. And Miller isn't happy.
"(Red Fridays) should have never been an organization because it was never about money," she said.
Red Fridays Foundation is a registered business founded by Brian Muntz, but it accepts – and, indeed, solicits – donations. Boire and Miller object. They say using the movement to raise money for a business is questionable. Muntz says he is conducting the rally to honour the fallen troops and their families. He says he's not raising money for profit – but to donate to charity. "I just want to do what is right," he said. During the procession, a red vehicle bearing the names of 83 soldiers killed in combat will lead a convoy of hundreds of vehicles and a bus carrying family members of fallen soldiers.
Event spokesperson Brian Wilkins said funds that the Red Fridays Foundation raises during the rally will go to the Canadian Hearing Society. He thinks the accusations are completely ill-founded and says that, given the high-profile nature of the event, Muntz would be crazy to try and pull a scam. 
"You might as well rob a bank then walk out and sit on the curb," he said. 
Meanwhile, Miller and Boire are also concerned that the business used their names on its website, www.redfridays.ca – without their permission – to solicit donations. It took an email carrying the threat of legal action to get them removed, Miller said. Muntz said he had no recollection.
The two women later tried to work with the foundation, but they said Muntz broke promises to them about their roles and cut ties in January. Muntz wouldn't comment. 
He did say that he hasn't "received any donations per se through the website," but has been given small private donations and $6,000 from one branch of the Royal Canadian Legion.
He says that foundation money has helped "hundreds". He would not disclose in what amount or to whom, but did say the foundation donated $1,000 to the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency. 
Muntz has not applied to the Canada Revenue Agency to be a registered charity, but says he intends to. 
The national headquarters of the Royal Canadian Legion, meanwhile, is endorsing the event. Bob Butt, director of communications, said: "We are not the government; we are not the RCMP. But we do have our contacts and this particular foundation, the Red Fridays Foundation, worked out as being bona fide."


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (3 Jun 2008)

This article is form TheStar.com

"Meanwhile, Miller and Boire are also concerned that the business used their names on its website, www.redfridays.ca – without their permission – to solicit donations. It took an email carrying the threat of legal action to get them removed, Miller said. Muntz said he had no recollection."

Funny, I think I would probably remember when someone has threatened me with legal action.  Bonehead!


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## X-mo-1979 (3 Jun 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> Ignorance of the law is no defence.



I agree.However he messed up when he had a family member telling them it's ok.



			
				Strike said:
			
		

> along with nasty accusations and jibes by the goof ball  that seems to be in charge of answering the e-mail traffic.



I wonder why he would?



			
				Strike said:
			
		

> The NOK should have final say as to what happens to the images and names of their family, especially as it pertains to a business.



I agree.And I'm willing to bet no other organisation will make that mistake now that its been made quite public.



			
				Strike said:
			
		

> As for writing ever member, it's not that hard.  One letter, fill out the appropriate names, and voila.  I don't know if it was ignorance or what.



And I will guarantee THAT would cause an uproar as well.People would post their e mails on here and use  : a whole lot.Saying things such as don't even appreciate us enough to actually answer etc etc etc.

I'm not here to support the guy.I don't know him.I couldn't care if petawawa red Fridays shut down either.Neither affects me or my family in any way.
I'm merely throwing this out there for food for thought.

I suggest some people think about the poor guy who had to watch a mother/sibling etc proably cry and was pleased to have his name on the car IN PERSON and having the legal NOK call and wish it taken off.It was a bad situation for him.And for both parties of the family.



			
				Harris said:
			
		

> Feel free to argue that this guy is on the up and up.  He won't be seeing a dime of my $.



And I'm sure it won't be needed.If this guy has half a clue he would disclose all his info pertaining to finance and shut it down for good.And after this outcry I would think ANY civilian would be hesitant to start anything for the military,and leave red fridays to the two CF sponsored women.It's easier that way and hopefully will keep red fridays in the Ottawa/Ontario region.Too bad for the rest of our families who live outside of the area.


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## armyvern (3 Jun 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> As for the name did other family members request it be on there?That's what was on CTV IIRC.Legal NOK means nothing to a civilian who doesn't know any better.



As stated - the concerns about this were raised with him and pointed out to him by the Primary and legal NOK _*before*_ this rally occured.

author=X-mo-1979:


> Misleading by calling it a foundation?He called it a foundation so he could actually donate to charties,as charties cannot donate to other charties.


Misleading by calling it a Foundation ... specificly the "Red Fridays" Foundation. The name is eerily similar to that charitable event of CFPSA/MFRC called "Red Fridays" which donates 100% of their profits to "Supporting the Troops" and their families no?

Think United Way ... You donate to United Way (a registered charitable organization) who then goes on to donate to Women's shelters, Scouts Canada etc (hmmm, they too ARE charitable organizations). Is the Red Fridays Foundation really the only one's who wouldn't be able to donate to a charity AS a charity? They certainly had the ability to align themselves IAW CRA Charitable Status Regulations with "actual" registered charities that "support troops and veterans" -- there are a great many of them out there. 

Canada Revenue Agency (who happen to raise an important point on their site:


> Make sure you know who you are donating to. Sometimes fraudulent charities use names that are similar to well-known and respected charities.



author=X-mo-1979:


> As I originally stated in the beginning red Fridays Charity gets sponsors and lots of donations from the CF and surrounding business,as the founders are from the military community.This man is not.And did not receive free stuff.So how else do you organise something without money?This isn't utopia.


Utopia does not exist. However, in PEI with a mere 1 person working in the MFRC - a civilian at that, and with NO CF base in the entire province, Provincial business' came out in droves to donate time, signs, stages, microphones, bands, you name it for MFRC "Support Your Troops" fundraising activities and Red Friday Rally's in Charlottetown. Why did that occur? Because she asked ... and I'm quite sure that her "not for profit" status aided her greatly in those efforts. Funny how that works.

author=X-mo-1979:


> He said his financial dealings will be posted.


And, if he were a registered charity, he'd have no choice but to fully disclose such for public record if he wanted to retain that charitable status. As it currently stands, I do hope he follows through on this promise (unlike others he has failed to so far). But, until such time as he is an actual "charity" --- there is no way to tell whether or not that which he does choose to disclose (if anything) is ALL that there is to disclose.

author=X-mo-1979:


> There is nothing but a bunch of rumint on this thread.People making assumptions.


RUMINT??

Here's a quote from him that was given on 27 May 2008 (linked here)


> *But, the business will not be donating any more funds to the agency. “The CFPSA is just a big pot and we don’t really know where the money is going to,” said Red Friday Foundation owner Brian Muntz.*



Yet, eerily, his site (as edited on 31 May, but somehow dated 25 Apr 08) now reads:



> Donations to Red Fridays Foundation of Canada:We generally discourage financial donations to our foundation as we can not issue tax deductible receipts. We recommend to people that wish to make a tax deductible donation for our Canadian Troops to do so through the CFPSA.



author=X-mo-1979:


> The ONLY valid point I have read in this thread is of Mrs Arnold's request.I don't agree with his name not being taken down,however other family members requested it.Sounds like a family issue and not one of the organiser.
> My heart does go out to Mrs Arnold,as I have seen this similar situation before with a good friend's wife and his family.
> 
> As for him not sitting down and writing each and every one of the army people he tried to dedicate something to I don't blame him.I hope he shows his financial record's,their all legit and he Tell's the army bugger off and directs the rest of the people who don't visit this web page to this thread.
> ...



Again, my heart goes out to all the family members involved in this.

But, I'm sorry -- QUESTIONNING where MY donated money is going when I have concerns about something is SMART. And a charity would have ZERO problems with addressing those concerns.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (4 Jun 2008)

The Society Update              TORONTO PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTERS’ CELTIC SOCIETY UPDATE 
  RED FRIDAYS
Rec'd from --- Brian Muntz - Founder - Red Fridays Foundation of Canada  
May 31, 2008 - The Memories begin!
Repatriation Webpage Everyone is welcome on board with this very special event. Here is some news that has not been released to the public yet. We are releasing it through a press conference soon. 
1. We have a Red Fridays Car that has been donated to us from Scarsview Chrysler. The car is Cherry Red Dodge Magnum. It is currently having some graphics added to the car and it will also have the 81 soldier's names on the car that have fallen in Afghanistan.  
2. The launch point is Centennial Park I Trenton. The mayor and City Hall has donated to us the use of the park, the Ampatheatre and many services. All the emergency services and police will be involved. Local business is asked to provide services such as food and drink. The community is all hyped and is looking forward to the send off. 
3. We are capping of at 1000 vehicles for the drive. Thus far we have over 350 vehicles registered. Once the press release is done, the spots will fill up fast. I have been working on this for a year now and the response has been extremely receptive to the community.
4. Mayor Miller has offered no response and has declined to offer City Hall NPS square. 
5. A local business has offered to host the reception of the drive and rally. GPK (Grand Prix Go-Karts) in Downsview parks has offered us to use their facilities and make the rally a fun  vent.  The Canadian Army Vets and local reserves and CF members are challenged to a mini Grand Prix. The track is unbelievably large and should be a lot of fun. GPK has a 5 star restaurant and a concession stand to provide to the people at the rally. Thebuilding holds easily 2000 people and the parking for vehicles exceeds over 5000. Local TTC transportation is also  available.  There will be a BBQ also available. Proceeds from sales of food and beverages and racing will be donated to our foundation.  
6. The cost of the event at GPK is costing us $5000.00 
7. We are expecting some Canadian artists to perform at the event at GPK. These artists are the ones that have written songs about our troops.  
8. The CAV are offering to marshal the event at Trenton and Toronto to make sure all vehicles are launched and parked safely.
 9. The OPP will be engaged to provide safety for our drive. 
10. We are not a charity and therefore we can donated to charities. With proceeds that are gained from this event are being donated to the Canadian Hearing Society in support of senior veterans care, The Tony Stacey Centre will be given the proceeds from the red Fridays car once auctioned later this year and we are also assisting with the Aryers chapter of the Canadian Air Cadets to help with operational costs to keep the Cadet program running. We would like the RCL involved in some way that it can benefit the RCL as well. We would like to have veterans at the event in their uniform to allow the public to meet and greet the ones that have served our country.  
Our goal is to celebrate the peace and the hard work our military has provided for decades.  We are honouring those who have fallen recently and in the past. We are also honouring the military family and the sacrifices the extended family gives to our country. We are still open (for a short time) to any other facilities and or sponsors for Toronto. With the lack of interests from City Hall, it has been difficult to engage sponsorship.  As it has been demonstrated so clearly to our foundation, the only sponsors we have found are those that want to profit from this event. I am not necessarily against businesses profiting but I am not a philanthropist. I work from pay cheque to paycheque like mostof us do. I have been out of pocket entirely for this foundation. My hopes is to one day become a community non profit foundation offering our veterans many services that I know has been cut back by Veterans' Affairs. 
The reason I started this is because my parents were liberated out of the Netherlands by the CF in WWII. My parents never let us forget what this country has down for our family. 
This is my way of saying thank you. Brian Muntz - Founder Red Fridays Foundation of Canada


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## armyvern (4 Jun 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I agree.And I'm willing to bet no other organisation will make that mistake now that its been made quite public.
> 
> And I will guarantee THAT would cause an uproar as well.People would post their e mails on here and use  : a whole lot.Saying things such as don't even appreciate us enough to actually answer etc etc etc.



Now, you're obviously referring to me directly & my earlier post.  You may as well come right out and say it - I've ZERO issues with that.

Like I've already stated -- if they want MY donations, they shouldn't have a problem answering MY queries as to where that money will go now should they? Or answering my concerns as they saw to do for others (and the concerns that I raised were different from those answered here by others so far - so I STILL haven't got any answers). A charity certainly wouldn't have issues with answering.

But, obviously they don't WANT my donations or my support because THEY can't be bothered.

That's* their  * problem; not mine.  : :


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## X-mo-1979 (4 Jun 2008)

Seriously though I wasnt referring to you at all. (You know my coot.... I would have said it if I was! ;D )

Either way I'm done playing the other side.I hope everything get's cleared up and legal matters sorted.Even if he's an evil dutchman (the one thing I hate is intolerence...and the dutch) I'm sure the legal system will take care of it.Not poor little me in petawawa,besides I got kayaking to do and tour to think about.Not Defending Mr Muntz.He should do that on his own.


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## Strike (4 Jun 2008)

What I don't get is how it seemed such a big deal to raise $1000 for the CFPSA and another $6000 some odd at other events.

In 3 years fundraising for the Arthritis Society, I raised over $13,500 by myself.  In a weekend I could easily pull in $1,000.  I have a friend who raises funds for the MS Society.  In the same time frame she's raised over $20,000 for the MS walk.

If there is so much dedication to raising funds for various charities, they may want to rethink their methods.  Cool hats and t-shirts are not necessarily the best way to get donations.


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## Michael OLeary (4 Jun 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> If there is so much dedication to raising funds for various charities, they may want to rethink their methods.  Cool hats and t-shirts are not necessarily the best way to get donations.



No, but making a "sale" is a very different way to bring in funds than accepting a "donation."  The former includes the potential to make profit without obligations to do anything specific with them, the second has (at least) implied obligations.

Perhaps what we need is CFPSA to step up to examining the various charities and foundations who are using the "Support the Troops" theme and to develop guidelines for a "CF Approved" rating system.


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## Harley Sailor (4 Jun 2008)

Strike said:
			
		

> What I don't get is how it seemed such a big deal to raise $1000 for the CFPSA and another $6000 some odd at other events.
> 
> In 3 years fundraising for the Arthritis Society, I raised over $13,500 by myself.  In a weekend I could easily pull in $1,000.  I have a friend who raises funds for the MS Society.  In the same time frame she's raised over $20,000 for the MS walk.
> 
> If there is so much dedication to raising funds for various charities, they may want to rethink their methods.  Cool hats and t-shirts are not necessarily the best way to get donations.



It's real easy to only raise $1000.  All you have to do is only declare the trackable money.  Just like tips, they are to be recorded for taxes, but who declares all of them.


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## Strike (4 Jun 2008)

So, back to the issue of the car.  Came to me last night.  Instead of putting the names of the people on the car, why not just the dates and number of KIA that day?  That way, instead of someone looking at that car, seeing the name, and thingking, "That poor family," they will see the date and maybe think of what they were doing that day.  A little more reflection.


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## afghan dad (4 Jun 2008)

Hello..I've spent the last week reading the comments and most of you people dragging these gentlemen through the dirt for having this rally on sat.31st.As someone who has been in afghanistan(civilian) I must ask..what have you complainers done yourselves to help.These guys decided to have a rally and ONE family complained about a name on the car,ONE.I understand that the parents were at the rally,and wanted the name left on.It must have been a very hard decision to leave it on for these guys,but they did.As far as not being a registered charity,they are telling the truth people,you can't give CASH,to another charity,(united way,if you care to check before mouthing off,is not a registered charity for the same reasons these guys aren't.Did anyone think to check before spreading more anger around for these guys?Ever been to a cenotaph?Theres names on it!!Why???So we don't ever forget the people who made the altimate sacrifice.Is it really that hard to see this car as the same thing,only something that can be brought to just about anywhere,any town too small for their own cenotaph ,so those people don't forget either.As far as raising funds for our veterans during this rally...So what,I consider it a waste to have hundreds of people gather and not do something like raising funds for any charity.Now come on you guys,these heroes on the side of the car,if asked today,knowing the kind of giving people they must have been,would I strongly believe,would have no problem with raising money for our vets,their friends that made it home after all are now vets.As for the ladies from petawawa,why is it that you figure if its not your rally,its not acceptable.I think its a shame you did'nt raise funds for a good cause when you had the chance.Just think about how nice it would have been to hand over a cheque to the childrens wish fund,or cancer society,in the memory of our fallen.What a gesture and heartfelt situation that would have been and the families would I imagine be happy that the memory of their loved ones lived on in a thank you letter from one of these choosen charites.You people writing back and forth putting down the efforts of Brian Muntz,Brian Wilkins,who by the way served in afghanistan as well as me,and Brandon Arnold,sickens me,and you need to look at what you are doing here.Possibly stopping some other citizen from doing another rally or something for the memory of our fallen because they don't want to be dragged through the dirt for their efforts.If you really believe you can do better,and know how to do it without having to learn along the way...then I suggest you get off your chairs and plan something...but be prepared,because if you don't do it 100% perfect, you are in for the worst name calling ,dirt in your face reaction you ever thought could happen.  You people should be ashamed of yourselves.


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## PMedMoe (4 Jun 2008)

What have I done to help?  I also *served* in Afghanistan as a member of our military.
I've donated to many *charities* that support the troops.


----------



## LadySierra (4 Jun 2008)

afghan dad said:
			
		

> *As for the ladies from petawawa,why is it that you figure if its not your rally,its not acceptable*.I think its a shame you did'nt raise funds for a good cause when you had the chance.Just think about how nice it would have been to hand over a cheque to the childrens wish fund,or cancer society,in the memory of our fallen.What a gesture and heartfelt situation that would have been and the families would I imagine be happy that the memory of their loved ones lived on in a thank you letter from one of these choosen charites.



Excuse me sir, but just in case you've not noticed throughout these last 11 pages of replies or not heard it in the news media over the last 2.5 years, the original Red Friday's campaign is not about raising funds for charity, it is simply a show of support. 
I'm not quite sure why you believe that showing support must include raising money... 
As for any other organization that choses to do so, that's their perogative, doesn't mean we have to agree with it. 

As for the comment about if it's not our rally it's not acceptable. I'd really like to know where you've obtained your information..actually come to think of it sir, your writing style seems to mimic that of Mr. Wilkins. Hmmmmm
Anyhow as for rallies, I would ask you to educate yourself a little. We have participated in several rallies across Ontario in the last 2.5 years. Have even organized two of our own. 

Either way, I am not here to defend the "Red Friday Ladies" so I will not pursue this matter any further. 

Have a wonderful day.


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## afghan dad (4 Jun 2008)

And I thinks its great the rallies you did.But ,its seems you really hate the fact thesae guys raised money for the charity they chose.I just don't see why it bothers you that much.If anything ,it seems to have accomplished two good things on one day.
And if i write like Wilkins...maybe its because I feel sorry for what they had gone through trying to explain their motives.Like you,I 'm now waiting to see where the money goes,and what amount was raised.Maybe if that all goes well,people will still want to do something themselves in the future.Although I think all of this may have changed peoples minds.


----------



## Strike (4 Jun 2008)

afghan dad said:
			
		

> ...but they did.As far as ...



No spaces between sentences...



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> ... childrens wish fund,or cancer society,in the memory of our fallen...



...no spaces between commas...



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> ...I think its a shame you *did'nt * raise funds...



...and a very familiar writing error that I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice during correspondence with Mr Wilkins.

As for the United Way, I get tax receipts from them every year come tax time.

afghan dad (since that's what you're going by here), you are new to the site.  Please, take some time to familiarize yourself with how things run here.  I'm sure you have some useful things to contribute, and I'm sure we'd like to hear it.  But when you rant like that, without any type of history here, one of two things tends to happen.  You either get ignored, or get familiar with the warning system.


----------



## PMedMoe (4 Jun 2008)

afghan dad, I haven't really participated too much in this thread, but I believe that most people's comments weren't about whether or not money was being raised or being donated to charities.  Most of the issue was in the way this foundation (organization, whatever) represented itself.  In the fact that they said they would go with the *primary* next of kin's wishes regarding people's names being on the vehicle and then went against the very thing they said for a variety of reasons:  "His parent's wanted it left on the vehicle." or "We weren't able to remove it because of where it was."
Names on a cenotaph or memorial are one thing.  People can go whenever they want and quietly reflect the sacrifices these people have made or mourn or honour them privately and respectfully.  Re-enacting an extremely emotional repatriation procession and advertising it as "fun" whether for the purpose of raising funds or not, is, in my opinion, in poor taste.


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## LadySierra (4 Jun 2008)

We do not for one second "hate" what these men have done and we have never stated that.
When the media came to us, we simply raised valid questions about their motives surrounding the fundraising.
You sir, have not been privy (as far as I know) to the correspondence that has played out between Lisa and I and the RFFD in the last couple of years therefor you're not able to comment on whether or not the questions raised were valid or not.

As far as their rally goes, I'm sure their hearts were in the right place. 
It's not the rally that was in question, it's the money involved and where it's going as well as where it's gone in the past. Unfortunately there were many different versions of where it went. 
Also in question were the names of the fallen. As stated a few pages back by captainj, those names are NOT public domain, however the RFFD chose to use those names without consent from all families. 
(I have an email stating that they did NOT receive permissions from all families)

I will be the first to admit (actually, I think Lisa might have as well) that driving along the 401 on our way home from a completely unrelated rally on the same day, we saw first hand just how many people lined the hwy overpasses, just how many ppl support the troops and their families. It was in fact, very heartwarming.
No matter what has gone on here or what's been said in the news media, people were able to put aside their beliefs and their opinions regarding this situation to go out and show support for our men and women in uniform and their families, that sir is all that matters! 

Cheers.


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## Loachman (4 Jun 2008)

afghan dad said:
			
		

> Hello..I've spent the last week reading the comments



Then, sir, I respecfully suggest that you spend a second week, actually paying attention to what has been written this time as you have quite obviously missed almost everything.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> I must ask..what have you complainers done yourselves to help.



Check the profiles of the other posters and see. Most here have extensive actual military service, including tours in Afghanistan and elsewhere, or are family members. And those that made that trip from Trenton to Toronto for _*real*_ are our friends, colleagues, and family.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> These guys decided to have a rally and ONE family complained about a name on the car,ONE.



You have, as I said, obviously not paid attention to what has been written here. The first thing that turned me off about this event, as I stated quite clearly, was the simulation of a solemn event and billing it as "fun for the whole family", and a chance to "experience" a repatriation. I was disgusted by that whole notion, and am even more so now. If people really want to experience a repatriation, then they can put their kids in hearse-borne boxes and ride along.

The whole concept is sick.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> It must have been a very hard decision to leave it on for these guys,but they did.



That's not the impression that I get. I don't think that they cared. I may be wrong - in fact, I hope, really hope, that I'm wrong but I see no indication that I am and plenty that I'm not.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> united way,if you care to check before mouthing off,is not a registered charity for the same reasons these guys aren't.



Well, we really don't know if the reason is the same or not, do we? United Way certainly has a more established track record, and does issue tax receipts.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> Ever been to a cenotaph?



Plenty, and in many different countries. I've yet to see one get auctioned off, though.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> any town too small for their own cenotaph



I have yet to see any such town, unless it had no war dead whose names would have gone on one.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> As far as raising funds for our veterans during this rally...So what,I consider it a waste to have hundreds of people gather and not do something like raising funds for any charity.



I'd have no objection to fund-raising for suitable charities so long as I knew where every penny went - and I don't.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> Now come on you guys,these heroes on the side of the car,if asked today,knowing the kind of giving people they must have been,would I strongly believe,would have no problem with raising money for our vets,their friends that made it home after all are now vets.



I will state it right here, publically, that should I not make it back from my upcoming tour, that I do not want my name or image misused in any way, shape, or form on any questionable "fundraising" activity or website (and most definitely not in any tasteless repatriation or funeral simulation), other than officially recognized ones or on this forum.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> As for the ladies from petawawa,why is it that you figure if its not your rally,its not acceptable.



Please either provide references where either of them stated that, or retract your comment and apologize to them.

They have made it quite clear that they do not object to other rallies, and that their objections were due to their names being misused and misrepresented on Mr Muntz's website.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> I think its a shame you did'nt raise funds for a good cause when you had the chance.Just think about how nice it would have been to hand over a cheque to the childrens wish fund,or cancer society,in the memory of our fallen.What a gesture and heartfelt situation that would have been and the families would I imagine be happy that the memory of their loved ones lived on in a thank you letter from one of these choosen charites.



That was not the aim of the original rallies. It's also not the aim of many other similar activities.

The aim was to raise public support for "the troops", ie people like us here. Most people are quite capable of deciding which charities and causes they wish to fund on their own.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> You people writing back and forth putting down the efforts of Brian Muntz,Brian Wilkins,who by the way served in afghanistan as well as me,and Brandon Arnold,sickens me,and you need to look at what you are doing here.



Anybody who has spent any time in uniform develops a pretty sensitive BS Detection System. Mr Muntz et al may be absolute saints, and truly above reproach. As I said earlier in this post and previous ones, I hope that they are and that I'm wrong. My BSDS was triggered immediately, and still has not stopped.

I do not know you, Mr Muntz, Mr Wilkins, or anybody else involved with the Red Friday Foundation. I do, however, know several of the other posters here quite well and they have rather more credibility than strangers who, at *best*, have repeatedly screwed up the execution of what may have been a purely noble undertaking.

In the face of everything that I have seen and heard, I simply cannot believe them no matter how much I want to.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> I suggest you get off your chairs and plan something...



Some here have, and with none of this controversy. For most of the rest of us, doing so would be inappropriate - a "support me" rally would be unseemly.



			
				afghan dad said:
			
		

> You people should be ashamed of yourselves.



Sorry, but no.

When the questions have been answered to our satisfaction, and certain things treated with a little more sensitivity and less appearance of exploitation, then you'll see some apologies.

I sincerely hope that we'll see reason to give them, but...


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## S.Stewart (4 Jun 2008)

Afgandad aka Brian Wilkins of the Red Friday Foundation.(Oh I'm sorry did you not want to be outed) Here in the drop on how our little community here works.  

-Fill out your profile- why because those who wish to appear as that nameless person get treated as such.

- Think about who your talking to, most people on this lovely forum are serving, or retired military members, those of us that are civilians such as myself, most of us are attached to the military in some form; NOK, family members, friends.

Now I as one of those civvy types who is "attached" to the military world, that there were more than one family who had an issue with those names on that car, never mind the fact that you auctioned off like a dairy cow for meat. But your organization would have not realized that because you didn't bother to contact the proper NOK. 

I still personally believe that the format of the rally was harsh, I personally never want to see another coffin laid vehicle roll down that highway, let alone, some version of a recreation. Indeed some military families have no issues with it, and that is fine. But you must take into account those that would. 

I ask you, how in hades would you feel if I took your loved one's name who was dead, had it put on a vehicle wrap and went and plastered it to the side of my truck, and drove around with it, then to add the icing on the cake, I decided to turn it into a "fun filled" event, and collect money from my fellow citizens. I am sure you would be none too pleased. 

IMO you do not give a damn about those names on that car, nor the families that mourn them, your Sir are concerned purely with the "good" you can do in the eyes of others. Your a coward and a wolf, you prey on people's kindness and sympathy. No offense if I was the NOK of some of those names on that car, I would drag you into court, it may be just a name to you that is displayed on public domain, but that is someone's identity, and someone else's entire world. 

You want to be taken seriously, figure out your organizations postion and stick to it, every time the public turns around and questions something, your website changes, your answers change to the media. Those are all signs of someone who is lying through their teeth, and trying to cover their tracks. 

Now to say I dislike you as an person is highly incorrect, but do I dislike your organization? Damn right I do. I also think I have the right to wonder where my paycheck is going. 

I know now where my money is going from here on out, and it will not be to the likes of your organization. 

Good day to you. 

S.Stewart.


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## Teeps74 (4 Jun 2008)

Afghandad, I highly recommend you read the profiles of those posting in this thread. Foot in mouth disease may leave scars, but it is treatable.


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## RangerRay (4 Jun 2008)

Plastering the names of fallen heroes on a car and recreating a solemn procession with it sounds rather morbid to me.  If I were Next of Kin, I would want someone to ask my permission to use her name first in something like this (which I more than likely would not give!).

The unauthorised use of names and images on the website is pretty dodgy to me too.


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## captainj (5 Jun 2008)

Afghandad aka Brian Wilkins

Sir, the fact you served in the "Stan" does not absolve you from the shameful conduct of your org in fact you should know better. Many of us have served all over the globe and do not flaunt it. The real hero in most cases is our spouses. In my case the love of my life parented and mentored my son, her step son (while I was away) a rather troublesome chap at the time who is about to become a Patricia. I went on the bridge for the first time, a short while ago and lost it crying my eyes out for that boy coming home. I couldn't help but thinking that was my boy. Sir be assured if you had the timerity to "post" my sons name up on that heap of iron I would do whatever it took to remove his name from that rolling tombstone you call a car. I presume it is in the shop now getting the 84th name put on. You guys don't clearly do not get it, this calling we are in (and I incl our spouses and family) is all about service before self. It is clear that did not rub off on you during your "tour' perhaps your head was stuck in the sand for six months as it is now. 

I ask you how a free car for a year supports anyone but one. Now please do not say that this veh is used only for events. That would not be true as it is seen parked at a certain left leaning place of higher knowledge in Toronto, where someone you know works. BTW the staff at that institution find that car as distasteful as most of us. Why not come clean with that car pull it off the road and or better yet donate it to a MFRC and I will be the first to sing your praises.

I am sure at the heart of it you are a good and well meaning man, who like many has been romanced by the Red Fridays Foundation. Ask yourself this, where did all that cash go selling your wares over the past 2.5 years. In the awareness biz please........ who asked you in the first place to get into that biz. Why did they not stand up right away as a charity, you Sir already know the answer and if you don't search your heart  and or ask. There is something odd about a internet biz that goes to major shows and flogs T Shirts etc all cash for 2.5 years and has a donation SOT box that claims to have only made a few $100.00. That dog don't (do'nt) hunt my friend. Go figure there is this Sgt in a certain Armd unit in Oshawa that on his own hook, in the past year ,has raised some $15K in profit for the Trenton MFRC. He did this all by networking. I ask you all to be the judge particularly you "Afghandad".

There is a letter the Foundation aka business is floating that claims many things, one I find rather shocking and frankly insulting. You basically claim you wouldn't have asked for donations had you not got such bad press. Where have you been. You guys have been asking for donations since day one in 2006. Hmmm donations and foundation sounds like a charity but it isn't. I hear you guys are upset at the bad press you got duh Homer what did you expect. You take 83 names of souls near and dear to Canadians and claim that it is public domain. You do this without any permission nor respect for the NOK. You admit you are a business but ask for donations, at the same time you admit to have only donating $1K to CFPSA. You then diss CFPSA by saying that who knows where the money goes. Now I admit there have been times CFPSA has pis*ed me off (never got over the tour gift LOL). this org has done more in a second than your Foundation has done in 2.5 years. You then diss 2 of the finest girls I know, who by the way were given the CDS's and VCDS's medallion for their efforts with Red Fridays (you know the same CDS who's image you had on your donate now button, now that was rather userish, don't tell me public domain). Boys welcome to the big leagues the media pick up on articles even small ones that Pete Fisher wrote who BTW freelances for the Tor Sun. Surely even you guys can connect the dots. The media love guys like you and follow up. One small suggestion if you are going to do interviews keep the story straight and on msg, not staying straight has a way of getting you in trouble. BTW why does the founder of Red Fridays have a spokesperson. Seems odd that such a good and well meaning chap who's parents were liberated by the Cdns cannot speak with conviction about his org. 

Finally ARMY VERN is quite right

_The below quote is from the email response recd by S.Stewart from Brian Wilkens on behalf of the Red Fridays Foundation (quoted from earlier post here) 

Quote
...
The hundreds Brian has helped was in the form of shirts given for their fund raising,pins,advice and in one instance,a family he gave money to because when they wanted their son buried at home instead of in ottawa, our gov't gave them $10,000 and no military funeral,she asked Brian for help with expenses and he gave.

Should her name be published,would you want yours published? We did'nt register as a charity due to the fact that charities bylaw,cannot give cash to other charities.
...


As a qualified CAO (Casualty Assisting O), I have serious doubts as to the validity of this statement made by him above.

I have no qualms with outright calling this statement by Brian Wilkens a "lie". It is the families wishes (the immediate designated primary NOK) that determine what/where/type of funeral that will occur, NOT the government and certainly NOT the CF. Period. And, his insinuations of anything different to that are waaaayyy off base and an insult._

I too am a CAO who sadly been at it since Sept 2006 and I say again "That dog don't hunt"


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## armyvern (5 Jun 2008)

afghan dad said:
			
		

> Hello..I've spent the last week reading the comments and most of you people dragging these gentlemen through the dirt for having this rally on sat.31st.As someone who has been in afghanistan(civilian) I must ask..what have you complainers done yourselves to help.These guys decided to have a rally and ONE family complained about a name on the car,ONE.I understand that the parents were at the rally,and wanted the name left on.It must have been a very hard decision to leave it on for these guys,but they did.As far as not being a registered charity,they are telling the truth people,you can't give CASH,to another charity,(united way,if you care to check before mouthing off,is not a registered charity for the same reasons these guys aren't.Did anyone think to check before spreading more anger around for these guys?Ever been to a cenotaph?Theres names on it!!Why???So we don't ever forget the people who made the altimate sacrifice.Is it really that hard to see this car as the same thing,only something that can be brought to just about anywhere,any town too small for their own cenotaph ,so those people don't forget either.As far as raising funds for our veterans during this rally...So what,I consider it a waste to have hundreds of people gather and not do something like raising funds for any charity.Now come on you guys,these heroes on the side of the car,if asked today,knowing the kind of giving people they must have been,would I strongly believe,would have no problem with raising money for our vets,their friends that made it home after all are now vets.As for the ladies from petawawa,why is it that you figure if its not your rally,its not acceptable.I think its a shame you did'nt raise funds for a good cause when you had the chance.Just think about how nice it would have been to hand over a cheque to the childrens wish fund,or cancer society,in the memory of our fallen.What a gesture and heartfelt situation that would have been and the families would I imagine be happy that the memory of their loved ones lived on in a thank you letter from one of these choosen charites.You people writing back and forth putting down the efforts of Brian Muntz,Brian Wilkins,who by the way served in afghanistan as well as me,and Brandon Arnold,sickens me,and you need to look at what you are doing here.Possibly stopping some other citizen from doing another rally or something for the memory of our fallen because they don't want to be dragged through the dirt for their efforts.If you really believe you can do better,and know how to do it without having to learn along the way...then I suggest you get off your chairs and plan something...but be prepared,because if you don't do it 100% perfect, you are in for the worst name calling ,dirt in your face reaction you ever thought could happen.  You people should be ashamed of yourselves.



Let me begin to answer this by posting my bias' in this matter up front (as "transparency" would see anyone involved do just as the "Red Friday ladies" have done. It would seem to be the moral thing to do no? It's actually covered in the site guidelines that one should not try to pose here as a soldier if he isn't for example, or that those who are part of a business, or a contracting partner state so up front).

My Bias':

1) I am a soldier, I work for soldiers, and yet other soldiers still - work for me;
2) I have served on several international operational deployments;
3) I have lost several of my personal friends on deployments;
4) I am a CAO;
5) I have volunteered (after working hours) with the Charlottetown MFRC etc with organizing CFPSA/MFRC Red Friday Rally's, BINGOs, coffee breaks for family members of personnel deployed overseas, arranged for - and provided - emergency/respite childcare for soldiers' loved ones when required, arranged for assistance to family members, organized family support activities and peer support groups aimed at minimizing the stress experienced by soldiers' families while they are deployed --- which goes a long way in itself to reduce the stress upon the deployed soldier;
6) I have done up care parcels, received care parcels from families for furtherance, engaged the local community in "Support your Troops" activities such as educational awareness days where I have been asked to (and have) attend school gyms to explain to children in their terms what is going on in Afghanistan;
7) I have been asked to (and have) provided a briefing to the mother, fiance, and their co-workers of a deployed member because of the stress that was being caused within their workplace during certain periods of the current mission in Afghanistan in an attempt to alleviate the concerns that each of them were dealing with on a dialy basis. Many of those I spoke to that day remain amongst my great friends;
8 ) I have been involved in repatriation activites/funerals for some of our Fallen in both the organizational and "simple attender" role;
9) I have visited gravesites to obtain pictures for fellow soldiers who could not be present for the funeral of their comrade-in-arms, because they believed that that picture would bring them some solace and comfort in dealing with their grief (and, in some cases survivors guilt);
10) I visit cenotaphs each November 11th, and can actually be found in their vicintiy on many more dates of the year which I hold important to me personally - and while there, I have laid wreaths remembering my both own relatives lost overseas, or on behalf of my Unit in remembrance of all of our Fallen;
11) I volunteer with the Canadian Cancer Society, raising donations, helping to organize and participating in the Relay for Life - and actually will be particpating in this run as part of a Military team this coming Friday Night; and
12) I have served many times as a canvasser for the United Way, which despite your protestations otherwise, certainly is registered as a charitable entity with the Canada Revenue Agency (here's your sign: CRA Registered Canadian Charities). In this capacity, I have also answered donors questions about where/what their money would be going, and can even further redirect them and provide them with a specific charity's name/registration# (such as Scouts Canada / The Juvenile Diabetes Research Corporation etc) should they prefer that option. And, in each and every single case - I will then issue them with a receipt for the amount of their contribution for Income Tax purposes.

You asked: 



> I must ask..what have you complainers done yourselves to help.



I think I've answered. I think I've managed to cover all the things that you've accused me of "not being", so, with regards to this bit:



> You people should be ashamed of yourselves.



Absolutely not Afghandad; I am a very proud supporter of veterans organizations, soldiers, their familes, registered charities, and worthwhile causes.

I simply do not condone recommendations that someone donate their hard earned money towards an officially non-charitable entity whose books, records, and dealings are not "transparent". I'd rather see them put their money towards a bonified charitable cause.

The Red Friday Foundation, as of this date, still does not qualify in that regard. Like has been stated quite often in this forum already "their hearts may be in the right spots, but their execution is terrible". That fact remains.

PS -- note to all: I'm *still  * waiting to hear a response from Mr Brian Wilkens to my email (that 'golanvern' one) sent to the Foundation on 30 May 2008.


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## johnnycanuck (5 Jun 2008)

I have a t-shirt "all gave some,some gave all "it should be updated for the so-called foundation" and scum take".it is now clear the motivation is monetary not gratitude .the canadian public is BEiNG RIPPED-OFF by this cabal -$8 for a $4 magnet, $5 for a $2 window cling, they gotta be making a boat-load of money BUT if their costs /expenditures are "careless or sloppy" FOR SURE THEY ARE A NOT -FOR -PROFIT ORGANIZATION/CABAL !
I SURE HOPE mr muntz ISN'T USING THIS TO WRITE-OFF HIS MORTGAGE, INSURANCES,OR USING PEOPLE'S GIFTS AS THEY LIKE TO CALL YOUR DONATION AS HIS OWN TAX WRITE-OFFS
AND WHERE THE HELL IS REVENUE CANADA ON THIS OR DURHAM REGIONAL POLICE'S FRAUD SQUAD(AJAX BASED)-there is so much crap in the air there must have been a sh!t storm somewhere that started all this
AND WHERE THE HELL ARE DND'S LAWYERS-EARN YOUR RATS FOLKS(for those in JAG rats would be rations- you know what replaces fine dining)


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## armyvern (5 Jun 2008)

johnnycanuck said:
			
		

> I have a t-shirt "all gave some,some gave all "it should be updated for the so-called foundation" and scum take".it is now clear the motivation is monetary not gratitude .the canadian public is BEiNG RIPPED-OFF by this cabal -$8 for a $4 magnet, $5 for a $2 window cling, they gotta be making a boat-load of money BUT if their costs /expenditures are "careless or sloppy" FOR SURE THEY ARE A NOT -FOR -PROFIT ORGANIZATION/CABAL !
> I SURE HOPE mr muntz ISN'T USING THIS TO WRITE-OFF HIS MORTGAGE, INSURANCES,OR USING PEOPLE'S GIFTS AS THEY LIKE TO CALL YOUR DONATION AS HIS OWN TAX WRITE-OFFS
> AND WHERE THE HELL IS REVENUE CANADA ON THIS OR DURHAM REGIONAL POLICE'S FRAUD SQUAD(AJAX BASED)-there is so much crap in the air there must have been a sh!t storm somewhere that started all this
> AND WHERE THE HELL ARE DND'S LAWYERS-EARN YOUR RATS FOLKS(for those in JAG rats would be rations- you know what replaces fine dining)



johnnycanuk,

I'll take it that you're a wee bit irritated.

Although I must point out that the lack of a charitable organization number does not necessarily equate into fraudulant activity by this foundation.

That being said, it does, on it's website, advise that it is not a charitable organization. It may be hard to find and their Foundation's name may indeed be eerily similar to CFPSA/MFRC Red Friday activities which may tend to cause some confusion on the part of the general public. I'm not so sure that in and of itself warrants any kind of immediate action by any police force. If people believe that they are donating to a "charity", they must also bear some of the responsibility for their own actions in not reading the fine print.

It can't be said enough - it's your money ... verify where/whom you are giving it to ... it's yours, and, if you're not comfortable - find another place to give your donation to with whom you are comfortable. Common sense.


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## johnnycanuck (5 Jun 2008)

army vern
I thought i was quite reserved actually
as someone who is" proud to serve " and has been 20+yrs ,has volunteered for a couple of hospital  drives and been a united way canvasser I have  only come away richer in spirit and pride.Proud of the fact we are a  different breed (no matter our roots)a compassionate nation on the whole and very determined possibly generous too a fault.
But most Canadians are quiet selfless people,eager  volunteers who still believe in 'the golden rule':how many times have you heard "no problem" "too glad to help", "my pleasure", "its the least I could do" or "no thanks,I just wish someone would do the same for me someday" or "we came to help because we know you would if the shoe were on the other foot" even the casual "ahhh no biggie"
Terry Fox and Ric Hansen were no biggies too,THEY WERE GIANTS on the world stage as examples of Canadian determination and selfless acts for the benefit of others and were ambassadors of awareness BUT i don't recall their business registration number! 
I have been to many 'Volunteer Appreciation Lunches/Dinners 'over the years and it never fails to  amaze HOW MANY ORDINARY CANADIANS GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY  all walks of life ,colour and creed and what really whacks my mind is the level of envolvement and commitment of our youth,as they follow good examples of true giving(ones time and ones self) they also set the example.
As a first generation Canadian I cannot express my gratitude enough to my  departed parents and this country for the truly rich bounty unto which I was born ,the people the history the geography .
Life is like snooker 'its not what you take ,its what you leave the other guy' its all how you interpret the saying


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## Harley Sailor (5 Jun 2008)

First off, Johnnycanuck, why is your writing style so much like Afghan dad's

Second, Does the Red Friday Foundation pay the Brian and Brian act? That would explain a whole lot.


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## Trinity (5 Jun 2008)

Harley Sailor said:
			
		

> First off, Johnnycanuck, why is your writing style so much like Afghan dad's



But totally different position.

If he is the same.. the IP's will show the truth and the Mod's would be/have been all over it.


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## Harley Sailor (5 Jun 2008)

Trinity said:
			
		

> But totally different position.
> 
> If he is the same.. the IP's will show the truth and the Mod's would be/have been all over it.



His first post was, but his second post seems to have changed sides.

As for same IP, I'm sure there more then one computer in the office.


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## aesop081 (5 Jun 2008)

Harley Sailor said:
			
		

> As for same IP, I'm sure there more then one computer in the office.



We're not stupid. We've been at this for a while so we have our tricks.

Milnet.ca staff


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## johnnycanuck (5 Jun 2008)

ouch !read between the lines it was more about what wasn't said -no mud slinging nothing derogatory just an unspoken comparison


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## LadySierra (5 Jun 2008)

I can say without a doubt, that JohnnyCanuck is not afghan dad. 
I met this gentlemen last weekend in the Durham region while he was out supporting our troops at an event put on by the town of Bowmanville.

If I thought otherwise, I would be the first to say so.


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## captainj (5 Jun 2008)

To answer the question on do Brian and Brain get paid,  they state no. However as a business those expenses sure can add up. Zero optics on this for 2.5 years.......


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## armyvern (5 Jun 2008)

johnnycanuck said:
			
		

> ouch !read between the lines it was more about what wasn't said -no mud slinging nothing derogatory just an unspoken comparison



I understood your response. 

I should have put a smilie at the end of my ... "So I'll take it you're frustrated eh?"  >


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## Harley Sailor (6 Jun 2008)

Harley Sailor said:
			
		

> First off, Johnnycanuck, why is your writing style so much like Afghan dad's



Well I'm a big enough donkey to say I'm sorry.  I just found it funny how a new name would show up right after the big discussion about afghan dad, and he would use the same writing style.  No spaces between punctuation and can keep story line straight.  But that must be me reading to much into things.

Again,  :crybaby: I'm sorry  :crybaby:


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## PMedMoe (6 Jun 2008)

Good info on donating to charities.

Generous but smart - Ask questions about charities

Article Link

There have been a number of terrible disasters around the world recently and it is only natural for caring Canadians to want to donate money to help with the recovery efforts. 

In fact, Canadians are a very giving people. According to the most recent statistics from the Canadian Survey of Giving, Participating and Volunteering over 85% of Canadians over 15 years of age made a charitable donation in 2004. These donations equalled almost $9 billion and averaged $400 per donation. 

Charitable donations can go a long way to help an organization meet its not-for-profit goals, but just like any other cash outlay, you need to do your homework before you hand over your hard-earned cash. 

More on link


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## johnnycanuck (6 Jun 2008)

harley sailor ..no prob bud "crusty luddites and keyboards are a bad mix" but i get by somehow lol


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## captainj (6 Jun 2008)

Folks the following is out of the Scugog Standard 30 May 2008 by the editor Rik Davies

I'm seeing red on this one! 

When one sees the repatriation ceremonies at Trenton air base it is hard not to want to rush forward and help in any way possible. When we watch the metal caskets of the Canadian war dead pass the grieving eyes of their loved ones and see the stoic faces of those watching from bridges on the 401 you just want to do something.

Two women near Petawawa with close ties to those who serve began Red Fridays. It was a simple plan asking those who support our troops to wear red each Friday as a show of their support.

So Lisa Millar and Karen Boire were more than surprised when they discovered that a fellow from Ajax, Ontario, had registered the Red Fridays Foundation. It appears, from its web site, to be a not-for-profit business that sells 'support the troops' paraphernalia and is behind a May 31 memorial drive that will see 83 red vehicles (one for each of the soldiers lost in Afghanistan) drive to Toronto on the 401 Highway of Heroes where a fundraising event will be held. Now let me be clear on this. Not-for-profit businesses that raise funds for charitable causes are legal under Canadian law but.... Isn't there always a but? The Red Fridays Foundation appears so far to have donated only $1,000 to the Canadian Forces Personal Support Agency and, according to Department of National Defence spokespeople, the DND is in no hurry to be affiliated with this group.

When several members of the media from Toronto to Trenton began working this story some things sort of jumped out at the reporters involved.

* The Red Fridays Foundation takes some of the funds donated to cover internal costs and expenses.

* If you truly want to support our troops and assist our wounded men and their families you only need look up The Wounded Warriors on the Internet or drop in to your local Legion chapter and be assured that every single penny you drop will fall directly into the hands of the people who need it.

* Groups like the Trenton Military Family Resource Centre are taking exception to the Red Fridays Foundation and if you intend to support such groups you are well within your rights to ask to see the books to assure yourself you are doing the right thing. 

The issue to those who are concerned is whether the Red Fridays Foundation is commercially exploiting the deaths of good Canadians. If any element of the money received by it is going to someone's personal benefit directly or indirectly, it is doing something despicable in the eyes of those who honour the fallen and maybe in your eyes as well. And so, inquire as to what monies the Red Fridays Foundation deducts from what it might get from you as a donation before it gives it to where you thought it should go. Then you can decide for yourself if the foundation is conferring any advantage on anyone who doesn't deserve it in your eyes. Don't assume anything. 

We must always honour these great Canadians who have given their lives so that we can have a stronger and better future. We must never let anyone cash in on the pain of their loss.

The last mention of this by me is of a purely personal nature. This foundation has a vehicle donated by a car dealership that has the names of our war dead plastered across the side of it like a rolling tombstone.

My surname is carved into the side of the Vimy Memorial. Were that name to appear on the side of a car in the way presented above I believe I would do whatever possible to remove it.

See you in Clarington on Saturday!


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## captainj (6 Jun 2008)

Read below thread more evidence of half truths and  deliberate misinformation.

"Event organizer Brian Muntz has said he will remove names from the car if families request it".

Yeh they sure kept their word when it came to Kerry Arnold NOT!!!!!!!

Time that car was taken off the road. These chaps that are the Red Fridays Foundation have no honour and certainly zero courage. BTW Red Fridays Foundation as a troop you claim to support I will take a pass, your support is not welcome nor asked for. I have no doubt that these jackals will soon announce  handing over a cheque to the Cdn Hearing Society guess what it is only because their feet are being held to the fire. What  about the 2.5 years of sales and cash business?


*Local organizers defend Red Fridays Rally

Huge highway procession, ceremony to honour troops goes Saturday
Wed May 28, 2008 

Font    By Jillian Follert
Other Stories by this Author 
     


DURHAM -- A massive event to commemorate Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan is scheduled to hit the streets this Saturday but organizers aren't getting the kind of publicity they had hoped for.
Brian Wilkins, the Durham Region spokesman for the Red Fridays Foundation, has been fielding calls and speaking on GTA radio stations this week, trying to combat negative allegations about the Red Fridays Rally.

The event will see hundreds of cars travel the Highway of Heroes from Trenton to Toronto, ending with a ceremony at Downsview Park.

The procession will include 83 red vehicles, one for every soldier who has died in Afghanistan, and will be led by a donated Dodge Magnum rally car painted with the name of each fallen soldier.

At issue are complaints from the original founders of the Red Fridays movement -- which encourages Canadians to wear red on Fridays as a show of support for the troops -- who say the rally organizers didn't have permission to put the names of the soldiers on the lead car and that the Red Fridays Foundation is not a registered charity.

Mr. Wilkins said the concerns stem from misunderstandings and is distraught by widespread media coverage questioning the motives of the event.

"It's discouraging. We just wanted to do something to show our troops we're behind them," said Mr. Wilkins, an Oshawa resident who spent six months driving a fuel truck on the Canadian Forces base in Kandahar.

He said the names of the fallen soldiers on the car are not intended to be an advertisement, partisan political statement or anything other than a simple tribute done with the best of intentions.

Regardless, reports in the Toronto media have quoted relatives of fallen soldiers saying they want nothing to do with the rally, and want their loved ones names taken off the car. 

Event organizer Brian Muntz has said he will remove names from the car if families request it.

On the topic of fundraising, Mr. Wilkins confirmed the Red Fridays Foundation is not a registered charity -- a fact that is published on the Red Fridays website.

He said this was done intentionally because Canadian law precludes registered charities from donating to other registered charities.

The foundation plans to donate proceeds from Saturday's rally to four charities: the Canadian Hearing Society (which supplies vets with TTY phones), Friends of Veterans Canada, Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans Care and the Troop Morale Fund sponsored by the Royal Canadian Legion.

"We are a non-profit group, we aren't making any money from this at all," Mr. Wilkins said. 

He encouraged people who are uncomfortable donating to the foundation to donate directly to one of the above listed charities or to simply attend the rally without making a donation or collecting pledges.

"The main goal of this is just to show support for our soldiers over there, to have lots of people come out and take that message to Afghanistan," he said. 

So far, Mr. Wilkins said the foundation has raised about $11,000 and has spent $7,500 on costs for the rally, like lighting, a stage and gas for the lead car.

Bowmanville resident Paul Caswell doesn't see any problem with the event.

In fact, the father of local fallen soldier Darryl Caswell will be driving one of the 83 red cars at the front of the procession.

"I don't have any concerns at all, I think this is a great thing," he said.

The rally starts at noon on May 31 at Centennial Park in Trenton. The main procession will be released from the park at 3 p.m. and travel to Downsview Park in Toronto, where a ceremony will be held. OPP, local police and Canadian Army Veteran Riders will escort the procession along the route.

For more information or to register visit www.redfridays.ca.  *


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## Agent13 (6 Jun 2008)

_The last mention of this by me is of a purely personal nature. This foundation has a vehicle donated by a car dealership that has the names of our war dead plastered across the side of it like a rolling tombstone.

My surname is carved into the side of the Vimy Memorial. Were that name to appear on the side of a car in the way presented above I believe I would do whatever possible to remove it._

I participated last week as one of the 83 drivers. I intentionally did not take any pictures of the Red Fridays car. For me it was a matter of respect after reading about what some of the members of this Forum felt about it and had written. I also have asked my Father about inquiring and any use of my Grandfather's name in the past when we were trying to find out exactly what had happened to him in Dec of 44. Again, it was a matter of respect, and not wanting to do anything against the wishes of my Dad.
Everyone grieves differently. When I lost my Mother 4 years ago, I really did not want to see pictures or her name for a time after the funeral. It's just the way I handled it, and I didn't need any reminders of how I was feeling about her being gone, so I totally understand why someone would not want the name of their loved one on anything that they were not comfortable with or support.
I don't know anything more today about Red Fridays than I did last Sat, all I know is I participated for my own reasons, and I wish I could have been outside of CFB Trenton this afternoon to pay my respects to Capt Leary & his family. RIP


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## captainj (6 Jun 2008)

This is really quite a shell game now the founder states they are in the process of registering as a not-for-profit-organization. Now i am confused they have clearly stated they are a non-for-profit-organization on their web site and quoted by several media sources. What is the truth I wonder????

"However, Muntz' company is not a registered charity although he is now in the process of registering as a not-for-profit organization'. 

Again i am confused these folks have been in the T Shirt business since day one, at times it is hard to keep your eye on the ball. Given that they were not giving any product away and the prices they charge (all cash business I might add) what else did you intend to do but raise funds. The question that begs to be asked is where is all that cash?

"He told CTV Toronto he didn't register as a charity in the first place because he never intended to raise funds". 


_*Controversy haunts red rally campaign for troops
Updated: Sun Jun. 01 2008 9:49:02 PM

ctvtoronto.ca

The Red Rally parade in support of Canadian troops was a success Saturday but the controversy surrounding the event left some people feeling uneasy. 

Karen Boire and Lisa Miller, of Petawawa, Ont., were involved in the Red Fridays Campaign in 2006 and took part in a similar event in Ottawa last year. 

Their goal was to help organize events that would show how much Canadians appreciate and support the country's troops. 

Their events haven't needed donations but the private company behind this year's rally has been accepting donations. 

"Our first priority was to gain support solely for our Canadian Forces members and their families by wearing red on Fridays," Boire said in a telephone interview from home with CTV Toronto. "It was never about money." 

Brian Muntz, the owner of Red Fridays Foundation of Canada, said the only reason he's accepting donations is because people keep asking if they can donate. 

He said the only reason he set up his company was to provide rally organizers across Canada with a way to communicate with each other and coordinate each others' events. 

"I started accepting some donations and started building up ways to help out and checked out if there are other places I can make donations to," he said. 

However, Muntz' company is not a registered charity although he is now in the process of registering as a not-for-profit organization. 

He told CTV Toronto he didn't register as a charity in the first place because he never intended to raise funds. 

"Maybe it could have been done differently," he said. "Maybe it would have been better as a charity." 

With a report from CTV Toronto's Galit Solomon

   * _


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## johnnycanuck (7 Jun 2008)

my gran(aunts & mother) wasn't monetarily re-imbursed  for knitting socks and mittens and balaclavas for 'the boys'
my mother recieved no stipend for counting livestock being put to pasture before school and then counting a different  field coming out of the field after school(rustlers and black marketeers-so making money of the sacrifice of others is nothing new)
paper drives bottle drives scrap metal drives were manned by volunteers young and old
people weren't paid and didn't ask to be for putting together care packages or performing at local bond drives
THEY GAVE THEIR TIME AND WHATEVER ELSE THEY COULD BECAUSE THEY FELT IT WAS THEIR CIVIC DUTY...another time you say,
WELL, Sat Mat 31 at the Clarington Red Rally on VOLUNTEER'S ROW several organization and service groups  and individuals were present from high school students to senior citizens all giving their time to promote the welfare of OUR TROOPS ie.The Rose of Durham who have sent  over !0,000 coffees (certificates) to OUR BOYS &GIRLS, Mrs Cushman,mother of Tpr Caswell;God Bless,has sent over enough flavour crystals to spice up over 350,000 litres of what the Engineers try to pass off as water.
Several serving members, Afghan Vets  gave up their day off  to come out to support those who support them.
When asked why do I volunteer for my MFRC I tell people ITS THE LEAST I CAN DO BEING STUCK HERE IN CANADA INSTEAD OF KHANDAHAR...and their little hamster takes off at warp speed..hhmm "never looked at it that way"
WHATS MY PAYOFF usually the smile on the faces of the public SHOWING THEIR PRIDE IN MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND KNOWING THEIR HARD EARNED DOLLARS ARE GOING TO A LEGITIMATE RESOURCE BENIFITTING THOSE INTENDED
it might be none of my business and maybe i shouldn't be sticking my nose in somebody elses business but somebody elses BUSINESS  shouldn't be  IN BUSINESS supporting my brothers and sisters !LIKE OUR SERVICE  it should be of their own free will, for personal fullfillment  and satisfaction not for personal gain or profit
ps i hope my prose and punctuation are up to standard...always seeking continual improvement
pps for those who have trouble assessing my fall of shot... intended tgt...RFFC


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