# Canadian Global Airlift Reserve (CGAR), Cdn Air Force Auxiliary (CAFA)



## bossi (6 Jul 2005)

What do the CGAR and CAFA have in common?
Neither of them got off the ground ... (pun intended).

However, I remember reading that once upon a time the US maintained an agreement with their major air carriers whereby a certain number of aircraft were designated for use by the military - perhaps Materiel Airlift Command (sort of like a Merchant Marine).

But, of course ... that would never happen here, would it ...

CGAR news item:
http://www.canada.com/components/printstory/printstory4.aspx?id=b14794e1-2fd3-4e5c-b062-7f932ba65ab3

CAFA essay:
http://www.ducimus.com/Archive/cafa.html


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## Teddy Ruxpin (6 Jul 2005)

The US runs the Civil Air Reserve Fleet and their aircraft can be found in most theatres (Evergreen International does routine trooping flights, for instance).  See link:

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=173

I had thought about posting this as a subject for discussion, as it seemed to me that we (the CF) were a tad dismissive of what could be a decent idea, if applied in the right way.  The fact that sea containers can't be lifted, for instance, shouldn't rule out using commerial aircraft to fly other cargoes or passengers.

I'm in danger of straying out of my lane, but would be interested to hear what those with more to do with this subject think.

Cheers,

TR


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## Donut (6 Jul 2005)

I was under the impression that this was principally due to the fact that the US Gov't either directly financed, or underwrote the financing for, these aircraft purchases, just as they've done with the USN reserve transport ships.

If such is the case, heck, how much have we pumped into Air Canada over the years?  

DF


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## Teddy Ruxpin (6 Jul 2005)

You could be right.  Something tells me (although I have no source) that the USAF funds modifications to (for instance) cargo aircraft to make them compatible with AF cargo handling equipment, etc.  Cheaper than new aircraft...or even used ones.


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## Donut (6 Jul 2005)

As an idea I think it's good, but I doubt Canadian airlines have enough AC collectively to make the same contribution as any single US Airline _and still operate a domestic service_  but, again, what does Air Canada owe the Canadian people for the billions in bail-outs and hand outs?


That being said, it would be fantastic to see them augmenting our little CF fleet during surges in activity, say, instead of renting Antonov's again.  Can't even fit some of our kit in anything too much smaller, though.


DF


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## Bert (6 Jul 2005)

As far as Canadian domestic operations go, the scope of moving personnel and equipment isn't in the
same league as the US and attention isn't drawn in that direction.  However, civilian aviation is often 
utilized for the transport of cargo and personnel.   Every tasking and deployment I've been on has a
component of civilian transport.


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## bossi (8 Jul 2005)

ParaMedTech said:
			
		

> As an idea I think it's good, but I doubt Canadian airlines have enough AC collectively to make the same contribution as any single US Airline _and still operate a domestic service_   but, again, what does Air Canada owe the Canadian people for the billions in bail-outs and hand outs?
> 
> 
> That being said, it would be fantastic to see them augmenting our little CF fleet during surges in activity, say, instead of renting Antonov's again.   Can't even fit some of our kit in anything too much smaller, though.



Ya know, it just keeps rattling around in my brain bucket ...
Basically, a patriotic Air Canada pilot has an idea to help our Air Force (or should I say the Air Transport Wing of our Joint Strike Force ...?)
In other words - some ex-CF pilots, now flying for commercial airlines, see a way of contributing to the CF.
Unfortunately, however, some people in light blue uniforms don't agree.

Hmmm ... let me think ...
Is strategic airlift for the CF a problem?  Hmmm ... (I wonder how it got that way ... like, maybe, some guys in light blue uniforms were at the stick ... ?)  Am I being fair?  Don't care.  Strat airlift is broken and needs to be fixed - pronto - get on with it, even if it means FINALLY thinking outside the box ...

And, as an aside - I'm still annoyed that the CF didn't bid on that Antonov that got impounded by Canada Customs - sure, it's a pipe dream ... but it would have been a cheap way to generate some strat airlift overnight ... (chuckle)

Oh, well ... judging by the delays in buying new fixed wing SAR aircraft ... the CF still isn't a priority for the federal Liberal party ... (gee - I wonder how much that'll change AFTER Canada suffers its' own 9/11 or 7/7?)


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## jmacleod (8 Jul 2005)

Canadian Senate formed a Committee in 1986-87 to examine Canadian Forces airlift capacity -
there were a number of submissions from ex CF-RAF-USAF aircrews offering to provide heavy
lift support through contracted services (aircraft was the C-130 series). All aircrews were then
commercial airline pilots from a variety of carriers. Plan went no where in the Senate of course
but the CAS of the period General Larry Ashley got some new Herc's eventually. Air Canada
at that time signed an agreement with Air Canada for airlift capacity in "time of need" which
to my knowledge is still valid. Surprised CF Ottawa NDHQ (Air Force) who are focused on 
"privatization" of virtually everything required to operate the AF are not supportive. My personal
opinion is that outsourcing essential services through contractors is not a valid option, and creates
more problems than it solves. MacLeod


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## bossi (10 Jul 2005)

jmacleod said:
			
		

> My personal opinion is that outsourcing essential services through contractors is not a valid option, and creates more problems than it solves. MacLeod



Agreed, Monseigneur LeJoint ... I spit upon ASD (Alternate Service Delivery) especially when it means less bayonets ... (i.e. contractors can't do fire picquet ... nor can they pull a trigger in dire circumstances ...)

However, returning to the concept of increasing the number of qualified, ex-military pilots who could be available to augment the Canadian Forces ... how about we use a different lens to view this:  If there are a bunch of ex-CF pilots flying for Air Canada, and they're "current" on non-CF aircraft ... and, if we've only got a handful of aircraft marginally useful for strategic airlift ... then, how about we increase the number of airframes (e.g. in return for the ridiculous amount of money/bailouts that Air Canada has received, an agreement is drawn up whereby the CF installs a return spring on some of these aircraft ... complete with pilots who just happen to be ex-military and willing to serve their country in time of need ...)

So, to sum up:  A bunch of ex-military pilots, willing to help out in time of crisis.  They get signed up into a new Joint Strike Force Strategic Airlift Reserve Squadron.  The CF identifies commercial aircraft that could be requisitioned, and ... voila - an enhanced strategic airlift capability for a fraction of the cost ...

Like I keep alluding - the Merchant Marine hauled a lot of stuff in the Second Great Hate ... and helped us win.  These days, the "can't do" attitude is on the endangered species list at NDHQ ... and I won't shed a tear when it's extinct.

Personally, I'd love to be able to buy General Rick a beer and sound him out on this and a couple of other ideas ... (but, of course ... that's a "can't do" ...)


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## Good2Golf (12 Jul 2005)

bossi said:
			
		

> Agreed, Monseigneur LeJoint ... I spit upon ASD (Alternate Service Delivery) especially when it means less bayonets ... (i.e. contractors can't do fire picquet ... nor can they pull a trigger in dire circumstances ...)
> 
> However, returning to the concept of increasing the number of qualified, ex-military pilots who could be available to augment the Canadian Forces ... how about we use a different lens to view this:   If there are a bunch of ex-CF pilots flying for Air Canada, and they're "current" on non-CF aircraft ... and, if we've only got a handful of aircraft marginally useful for strategic airlift ... then, how about we increase the number of airframes (e.g. in return for the ridiculous amount of money/bailouts that Air Canada has received, an agreement is drawn up whereby the CF installs a return spring on some of these aircraft ... complete with pilots who just happen to be ex-military and willing to serve their country in time of need ...)
> 
> ...



Bossi, I think RJ would be a fan of it, heard him mention it in a number of briefings that I and others were involved in in the last few months...

My personal belief is that the light blue AF still thinks that Strat Airlift is one of its major thrusts, at times to the near exclusion of many other AF capabilities.  I would have thought that a whackload of 747-200 combis (frt/pax) would have worked quite well, much more cap than Polaris.  I would at least give the idea more time than some of the more dismissive folks in the AF have given it.  Hmmm...how about completing a formal estimate, then saying it's a crappy idea??? Wouldn't that be refreshing? ;D

Cheers,
Duey


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## jmacleod (12 Jul 2005)

Both good points. Few years ago at 12 Wing during the annual Shearwater International Air Show
sat down in the Mess (Wardroom) for lunch, and were joined by several USAF Air Reserve air crews
including pilots, from a C-135 Air Tanker, all women. The entire crew of one tanker were in fact,
all women, and were flying, during their tour with the front line USAF, air refueling missions focused
on operations over Afghanistan for one thing - have always been a supporter of a much larger and
effective Air Reserve, and at one time, there was a plan to create an Air Reserve Wing based at
12 Wing, to fly Grumman Trackers - aircrews were virtually all commercial pilots with loads of CF
time - no women were considered then, but would certainly be now. Strategic airlift must be a
priority with General Hillier - the method (and money) is the problem. MacLeod


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## Dizzy (17 Jul 2005)

Maybe this is a good time to push the whole airlift capacity right now. Within the next two years Air Canada and several other Canadian carriers are looking to expand their cargo capacity for overseas flying with jets such as the DC10 or MD11. Perhaps something like was done in the states would work here. Mr. Martin grants these companies a little extra money to get a more suitable jet and then expects a weekend a month or something.


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## a_majoor (17 Jul 2005)

Kind of a Deja Vu situation, see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/27489.0.html

Getting "strategic airlift" from Air Canada (or WestJet, for that matter) is really missing the point, military airlifters have vastly different requirments than civil passenger jets. Even a large jet like the "Airbus" or a 747 cargo jet doesn't have the ability to carry vehicles, and requires an intact and servicable airport with special ground handling equipment to on and offload cargo. Any military transport simply lowers the ramp and cargo can be rolled or driven on and off. If you think back to the Tsunami disaster, the Airbus that went over sat forlorn on the ramp at Colombo, Siri Lanka because all the ground handling equipment was fully in use by the time they got there, and the DART needed to wait for an Antonov to become available so they could move their equipment.

If some company *already* flew surplus C-130, C-141 Starlifters, IL-76, Antonov or other servicable military transports, then contracting with that company for surge airlift would make a lot of sense. Otherwise, forget it.


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