# Firearms Discipline at RMCC



## fhg1893 (11 May 2012)

To all prospective, and in some cases, current RMCC Cadets:

Whilst I can't be sure, since I'm an uninitiated civilian long-haired hippie freak, I have every reason to believe that there's an RMCC Cadet who still has a career this evening thanks to my exceptional charity.  He's incredibly lucky that I'm in the career making, not career breaking business.  

For everybody else, I will not show such charity ever again.

For one thing, as a licensed owner of firearms, I REALLY don't enjoy having a C-7 pointed anywhere me.  Furthermore, I really don't appreciate when you put your finger on the trigger, while the C-7 is pointed at me.  And I especially don't like it, when you dry fire your C-7 in my general direction.  

I'm of the understanding that these are Criminal Code violations in Canada.  I expect that the Canadian Forces dispenses some kind of discipline for individuals who flagrantly violate Canadian law whilst in uniform.  It took every ounce of my self-discipline NOT to get a name, service number, and squadron and subsequently report the offender to the proper authorities.

If you are thinking about RMCC, or currently attending, this is the ONE refresher you get from me.

The four vital ACTS of Firearm Safety are:  *A*ssume every firearm is loaded, *C*ontrol the muzzle direction at all times, always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, *T*rigger finger OFF the trigger, and OUTSIDE the trigger-guard, *S*ee the firearm safe PROVE it safe.  *P*oint the muzzle in the safest available direction, *R*emove any cartridges or magazines, *O*bserve the chamber to ensure that it is clear, *V*errify the feeding path, make sure it's clear, *E*xamine the bore, and make sure it is free of debris or other obstruction.

I will make it my mission to see to it that the next cadet who exhibits poor care and control of a firearm gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  And I'm reasonably sure that a handful of NCM's I know personally will be all too happy to see a future ring-knocker get crucified by the legal system.

Clear? 

Good.


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## slayer/raptor (11 May 2012)

Just out of curiosity, where were you when this took place? If I remember correctly, rmc cadets rarely used real C7s unless they were on a range, drill square, or ruck march.  All of which they are under close supervision.


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## Remius (11 May 2012)

So many things to say and ask about this.

I'll start with one comment.

If you have NCM friends that are happy about future "ring knockers" getting crucified by the legal system, may I suggest that you find more professional ones.  As an NCM that wouldl certainly not make me happy.  At all.

And without more context, your soapbox seems a bit inneffective.

Explain a bit more before we thank you for such great generosity you are bestowing upon the CF.


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## aesop081 (11 May 2012)

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> still has a career this evening thanks to my exceptional charity.



Yeah, you're a real rockstar.

 :


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## Brasidas (11 May 2012)

slayer/raptor said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, where were you when this took place? If I remember correctly, rmc cadets rarely used real C7s unless they were on a range, drill square, or ruck march.  All of which they are under close supervision.



My first thought was QL/3 students on a field ex with urban det setups. The CP's pull into a hide, then post sentries around the site, with intermittent supervision by staff.


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## AmmoTech90 (11 May 2012)

First off, if you have a legitimate complaint make it.  You didn't do the Cadet any favours by giving them a stern talking to and having no consequences.

Secondly, yes, we do not follow PROVE as written and saying that a member of the military should look down the barrel of a rifle/pistol/MG as is taught in PROVE is in no way a refresher and completely wrong.

Good on you for recognizing a fault, now just follow through on it correctly.


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## Remius (11 May 2012)

Were they actually dry firing?  Or were they conducting drill?  Maybe making weapons safe?  maybe you walked somewhere you were not suppose to?

Again way too many questions you haven't answered.


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## Maxadia (11 May 2012)

fhg1893 said:
			
		

> I will make it my mission to see to it that the next cadet who exhibits poor care and control of a firearm gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  And I'm reasonably sure that a handful of NCM's I know personally will be all too happy to see a future ring-knocker get crucified by the legal system.
> 
> Clear?
> 
> Good.



Yup, completely clear.  Thanks so much for explaining all that.   Now how about taking your complaint to somewhere that the actual intended audience might visit in sufficient numbers?


Do you really think that is is a military cadet forum or something?


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## exgunnertdo (11 May 2012)

No opinion/comment on the substance of the OP, but context - Grad/Convocation/whatever they call it is coming up.  My son fences with the fencing club on RMC, in the old gym, by the parade square.  I regularly see OCdts practicing for the parade, with C7s and blanks.


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## fhg1893 (11 May 2012)

Crantor said:
			
		

> Were they actually dry firing?  Or were they conducting drill?  Maybe making weapons safe?  maybe you walked somewhere you were not suppose to?
> 
> Again way too many questions you haven't answered.



I know the difference between "make safe for inspection" and dry firing in my general direction.  This person was looking down the sights at the time, and the rifle wasn't in anything that could conceivably be considered a vertical position.  It was pointed horizontally.  And tell me, do you practice making safe for inspection from a seated position?  Does making safe for inspection involve looking down the sights with your cheek on the stock?  I think not.

This occurred behind the McKenzie building, and it was NOT a case of practicing drill.  Having been a cadet, and a Fort Henry Guard, having done my fair share of drill, this was NOT a case of making an error in practicing drill.  Nor was this a case of walking where I wasn't supposed to, not being anywhere near the parade square.  

This was a group of RMC cadets, on a break, exercising muzzle discipline that would make me doubt them on a range.  In other words the poorest muzzle discipline I've ever seen.

And I DID do the right thing, and send it up the chain.  The only thing I didn't do, is get the kid's name and service number, and have him run out of the Forces for having committed two breaches of the Criminal Code of Canada.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (11 May 2012)

Locked.
If anyone has anything useful to add just PM a Mod and we will check it out.
Thanks,
Bruce


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