# Extra training/Career progression for CIC Officers



## Aken13 (7 Dec 2011)

Hi All, 
Been a long time lurker but decided to register and post a question as I'm concidering PRes, or CIC. But my question here is to do with CIC career progression... specificaly, are normal PRes and/or Reg force courses open to CIC officers (Trade and NCM/Officer pre req's not withstanding)?

Now I realize that it wouldn't be good to have CIC officers taking Tactical Infrantry or Demo courses, but what about something like Rappel Master or any of the Parachutist quals? Or Comabt Survival and Mountain ops...although I suspect that these would invovle a certain amount of tactical training not really suited to passing onto Cadets. 

And since we're on the subject...what is a typical career progression in CIC?

Thanks in advance,
AK


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## JMesh (7 Dec 2011)

Generally, no, we cannot do other courses. We are limited to work with the CCO without prior approval and good reasoning behind it. Para can be done by a CIC (Army) Officer if they are selected to work as the Escort Officer with the Para course - highly competitive position (also, the last couple of years have seen that you cannot do this your first year staffing para now - it can only be done second year or later). You can, however, do some non-CIC courses on your own time without pay; for example, some of the self-register courses on DNDLearn can be entered into HRMS and end up on your MPRR.

As far as progression goes, consult CATO 22-02. Basic eligibility is:
OCdt/NCdt - on enrollment
2Lt/ASlt - BOTC, CIC Occ Trg Crse, 1 year in rank (1 yr requirement waived if mbr holds an undergraduate degree)
Lt/Slt - ETC, 1 year in rank
Capt/Lt(N) - IOTC, 2 yrs in rank, appointment as CO/TrgO
Maj/LCdr - AOTC, 3 yrs in rank, appointment to established Maj/LCdr position
LCol/Cdr - 3 yrs in rank, appointment to established LCol/Cdr position

The important thing to remember is that CIC is all about the kids. This is our job and they are our responsibility and our privilege. We train to do the job asked of us, so other courses really aren't needed. Yes, we are members of the Canadian Forces. We have inherent responsibilities that come with that. At the same time, cadets are a *huge* responsibility, mainly because they're youth. We are responsible not only for their training and the administration of the program, but for the most important thing: their safety and their welfare. It's a huge undertaking, and if you're looking for just a job rather than looking to help the kids, this is not the job for you. That said, if you're willing to put the cadets first and be very conscientious of their safety and well-being, followed closely by their training and administration, you'd likely be welcome in our occupation.


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## Northalbertan (7 Dec 2011)

As a general rule CIC officers don't need and won't get access to rappel master courses, etc.  You  may be able to get a para course but only one or two CIC officers per year get a crack at it, and you must be a Captain to apply.  Unless no Captains want the course then an Lt may apply.

We no longer teach rappelling in the cadet program we have abseiling and you can get an abseil  instructor course.  You will have to be at least an Lt.  

Other courses you may be able to apply for will depend upon which element you choose to work in.  There are quite a few "specialty" courses to apply for.

To reiterate;  We are not combat arms, we lead children and so do not require the more militaristic courses.  Hell, if they let us I'd apply, but realistically, where would I use it?

My advice, if you want those type of courses and experiences apply for the PRes.  If you feel you can contribute to the cadet movement, by all means apply to the CIC.

NorthAlbertan


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## Strike (7 Dec 2011)

Northalbertan said:
			
		

> We no longer teach rappelling in the cadet program we have abseiling and you can get an abseil  instructor course.



They're the same thing...

ab·seil   /ˈɑpzaɪl, ˈæbseɪl/  Show Spelled[ahp-zahyl, ab-seyl]  Show IPA 
noun, verb (used without object) 
rappel. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin: 
1930–35; < German abseilen  ( ab-  down + seilen  to rope)


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## svejk (16 Dec 2011)

Abseil are regarded as 2 separate activities even if the general objective is the same.  The set up and use of ropes is different : abseil requires a top rope belay line.  CATO 45-04 & Adventure Training Safety Standards both distinguish between the 2 activities.  But, you are allowed to rappel IAW CATO 45-04 but Rappel Masters are not regularly trained in the CIC Trg System but abseil is.  Rappel would normally mean PRes or Reg  support is needed.

Back to the OP.  You won't be getting the listed courses as a CIC.  It would be just short of a miracle.

I am going to assume you are around 18 and an ex cadet.  If I had to do it again, I would go PRes first.  If you don't like PRes or you find you would rather be a youth leader (CIC) rather than a soldier/sailor/airman etc,  you can go CIC later (you have until 65) but to go from CIC to PRes will be much harder : tougher scheduling due to work, family etc.  CIC Trg Crses are more more flexible time wise and if nothing else in the PRes you would get more General Military Training which maybe somewhat useful in the CIC.  You can also volunteer with a cadet unit while in the PRes.  I don't see a downside for you along this route.  If you like the soldier/sailor/airman thing go PRes.

Feel free to Pm if you want to discuss specifics.


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