# The Going To Esquimalt Thread- PAT, PMQ, Etc.- Merged



## GIJANE

My husband is a mechanic and is wanting to get posted to Esquimalt, he'll be getting promoted and posted, we find out in January, problem is i'm Arty   ??? what will i do there? just wanted to know what everyone thinks of BC, my husband is from there.

GIJANE


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## mdh

Not sure if you're in Shilo but out here in Victoria/Esquimalt you'll feel like you've died and gone to heaven. There is a reserve arty unit here I'm sure they would love a regular force person on site, cheers and good luck, mdh 8)


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## brin11

I'm sure they'd love to have one; question is, do they have a position for one available?  You should really discuss this through your chain of command/career mangler as you might find yourself in separate postings.


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## HollywoodHitman

You and your hubby are gonna LOVE Esquimalt. The Island is a nice place to be. You could always seek an RSS position at the local Arty unit, but I believe there is a certain minimum rank you must have as well as a posting available. Best of luck on your move.

TM


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## elbarto

The only complaint a person can have about Victoria is that things can get a bit pricey.   But because of that there is the PLD, which even though it was recently reduced for the area, still goes a long way to offset the costs.   

Otherwise, Vancouver Island is a great place to live.


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## GIJANE

Thanks guys, we are married with a little girl so hopefully we will posted together, i was thinking RSS too but i'm only a two bananna and it's at least a M/CPL and above, we are looking at houses online and can't believe the prices!

GIJANE


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## SeaKingTacco

Try Colwood and Langford on MLS.  It is a bit more reasonable.  Many live as far out as Sooke or Mill Bay, but the commute is a bit of a bugger.

There are also about 80 empty PMQs here, so there is no waiting list, if that interests you.

Good Luck!


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## GIJANE

What are the Q's like?

GIJANE


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## MP 811

LOL..............take some advice, seek out a place in Colwood, Metchosin,or  Langford.  If you can access a Q in Royal Roads..............go for it.  Stay away from Belmont Park.  Thay may not all be bad Q's there, but the one's i've been in are serious pits!

just my 2 cents.


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## BillN

The Q's at Workpoint have nearly all been upgraded, and the Royal Roads ones are fine, but do as the last entry states.....stay away from Belmont Park.

Bill


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## Black Ops

Sidney is beautiful.. 30min drive to the base.


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## GIJANE

got shit canned this morning......so now what? who knows, basically my hubby wants me to pick a posting, uh hmmmm lets see Gagetown? and spend the entire summer in the Field with no Field pay?? uh no. Val Cartier? forget it...Pet? nope, so that leaves good old Shilo...or my OT i guess....ARGHHHHH!!!!!Hey nothing wrong with Shilo, wake up in the middle of January to rain....it was -42 yesterday.Today..+3 sheesh...this province ceases to amaze me.

Jane  :-\


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## Marge

Hi: I am new service spouse and we are being posted to Esquimalt and I would like anyone who has lived in the PMQ's in Esquimalt to tell me about them.  Specifically, what condition are they in, would you recommend living in them or should we look at other options.  Also where are they located in relation to the main base? Thanks


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## a78jumper

There are PMQs in Work Point, close to the Dockyard, some close toNaden and the main patch is in Colwood, so I suppose it depends on where your other will be employed as to whether or not they would be convenient. Traffic from Colwood can be a pain at times.  

Someone with more recent experince would have to tell you about their condition. Some of the ones still in Work Point, at least the last time I flew over were manufactured homes put up in 1981 as a "temporary measure" and appeared still in use.

At the least, if the windows and insulation are sub standard you will not freeze to death as it rarely freezes in winter. Enjoy the West Coast!


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## navymich

Here is the link for  Esquimalt CFHA, not sure if you've seen it or not.  Unfortunately, it doesn't show the locations of them.

The Q's that are in and near Dockyard and Naden, are rarely vacant.  Work Point and Belmont Park (Colwood) have the greater vacancy rates.  I just moved from Belmont Park and lived there for almost 5 years.  Yes, it can be an interesting drive into work in the mornings with the traffic, affectionately called the "Colwood Crawl".  It's not a long distance, but it is slow moving.  This can be avoided or lessened if you pick your departure times though.

I had a 3-bedroom single, with a basement.  Be aware that not all of the houses have basements, but there are storage units available.  I was happy with the location (just down the hill from the school and just across the street from a playground).  Prices on civy street are high, especially for what you get, and some of the neighbourhoods that you would have to contend with.  Sure, some of the Q's have seen better days, but overall, they aren't in bad shape at all.  Some have a new extended kitchen with new cupboards, many have new hardwood flooring in them.  The windows aren't the best, it can be quite drafty, but like a78jumper said, you don't notice it much due to the climate there.

You didn't state whether you had kids or not, as that could also play a factor in what you do.  If you do have kids, just beside Belmont Park is CPAC (Canadian Pacific Activity Centre) with a daycare in it run by MFRC, as well as PD Day and summer programs run by PSP.  In the Park itself is another facility, the YAC (Youth Activity Centre) that has before and after school care, as well as many night and weekend activities for older kids and teens.

If you have any other questions, please ask, or PM me.  Oh, and here is the link for the  Esquimalt MFRC.  It should have some info on items and activities within the different areas as well.


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## Marge

Thanks for the information, I forgot to mention that we have a couple of teenagers but no small children.  I have never lived on a base but I when I talked to a real estate agent when we almost got posted to Edmonton I was told that they were very depressing and unsafe with lead paint and inferior insulation problems so I don't know if this is accurate to all bases or if some have been brought up to standard? Thanks again for any input.


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## George Wallace

Marge said:
			
		

> Thanks for the information, I forgot to mention that we have a couple of teenagers but no small children.  I have never lived on a base but I when I talked to a real estate agent when we almost got posted to Edmonton I was told that they were very depressing and unsafe with lead paint and inferior insulation problems so I don't know if this is accurate to all bases or if some have been brought up to standard? Thanks again for any input.



I wouldn't trust what a Real Estate Agent says about PMQs, if they are trying to sell you a house, even if there is some truth to it.  Did that Agent say the same thing about any of the houses that (s)he was showing?


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## navymich

Just a guess, but the real estate agent might have just been saying things so that you would buy through him instead of renting with the military.  (like George said, but my the site froze on me and wouldn't post)

I haven't heard anything about problems with paint or insulation in Esquimalt.  Although the insulation doesn't matter too much, given the weather.  Depending on how old your teenagers are, they might prefer to not live in Colwood, as it doesn't give them easy or close access for "stuff to do"  (then again, maybe that's a good thing! ;D).  If they are of babysitting age, and are interested in doing that, they will have a full schedule as local sitters are hard to come by.

Overall, I don't recall hearing complaints from any of my neighbours about their PMQs.  Every once in awhile they might have a wet basement, but they seemed to have fixed that all up, at least in the area that I was in.  I also had no problems with CFHA either.


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## 3rd Herd

Most of the major problem Q's were believe it or not were on the old Royal Roads grounds. Yes there was lead paint, floor tiles made from asbestos, asbestos covering water pipes etc. It was all removed in the late 90s and early 00s or at least the areas that were identified. This included the exterior paint down to wood, bathroom floors ripped out. All the materials were double bagged and then taken out to the Hartland dump. If I remember correctly it was a two year project.

As for the 'teens' I raised a female out there and using common parental sense had no major problems and very few minor ones. Bus service is good for them to get around and is included in their school fees. Vic is growing so there are a multitude of activities.


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## big_johnson1

I have a PMQ in Esquimalt, a two bedroom single with a basement, and I can't complain about what I've got. The place is small, with only 800sq feet upstairs, and another 800sq feet downstairs, but it suits my needs (and was fine when I was living with my girlfriend). The insulation isn't that great, for sure, and when it's very windy out I can feel a draft coming from the big window in the living room. My solution has been to cover the big window and a couple of the other windows in the house I don't think I'll need to open during the winter with shrinkwrap plastic (you can pick it up at Rona or Home Depot). But as Airmich said, it isn't really that cold, I do it more because I'd rather be efficient and save some money on my natural gas bill.

I'll describe my place, but I haven't been in many other PMQs out here so this is just one example of what you can get. I have hardwood floor in the living room, but the kitchen and bathroom is linoleum, and the bedrooms are older carpet. As typical with older houses the walls are covered in about 10 layers of paint. The exterior is vinyl siding. My basement is unfinished, I use it for a workshop and as storage, although there are basements that have been finished, and there are places without basements.

The Colwood area is nice, it's off the main road so you don't get crazy traffic through the houses, and for the most part only people who should be here are here. It's very close to the Royal Roads grounds for nice walks, it's right on the Galloping Goose Trail (a regional trail that snakes all over Victoria and it's environs), and about a 15min (plus or minus 5 min depending on where in the Colwood PMQs you live) walk from the Esquimalt Lagoon beach. There is a grocery store, library, rec center and several restaurants just down the road from the entrance, along with gas stations and some coffee shops (including two Timmy's).

The biggest problem I see with the PMQs is that some people treat them as rental housing. There are many who don't bother taking care of the exterior of their places at all, but on the other hand there are some that take great pride in their houses and put in a lot of work to make them habitable. My neighbours are quiet and friendly enough, but I think I don't fit in too well as a single person compared to someone with kids and a family. Understandable since this is a family area.

If you have any other questions about the Qs in Esquimalt feel free to ask.


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## PumpKickr

I'm being posted to Esq. from Hfx this APS and although I'd love to buy a house (we own in Halifax at the moment) a quick browse of the MLS has discouraged me (since I'm not independently wealthy), so I'm considering PMQs.  When you apply through the CFHA you have to check your "area preference."  Of course they can't provide any info about the communities or the PMQs available at each site (you'd think they'd at least have pics on the website).  Since I haven't been to Esquimalt since 1996 I know nothing.  This is all I've got:
-Naden, Workpoint and Signal Hill are close to the base, but a third party has told me that the area is not very nice.
-Belmont and Royal Rhodes are about 20 minutes away, but nicer
-Rocky Point is very nice but over an hour away.

Anyway, my HHT isn't going to be until May, but I'd really appreciate it if anyone familiar with PMQs in Esquimalt can provide their unbiased (or biased) opinion.


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## Neill McKay

PumpKickr said:
			
		

> I'm being posted to Esq. from Hfx this APS and although I'd love to buy a house (we own in Halifax at the moment) a quick browse of the MLS has discouraged me (since I'm not independently wealthy), so I'm considering PMQs.  When you apply through the CFHA you have to check your "area preference."  Of course they can't provide any info about the communities or the PMQs available at each site (you'd think they'd at least have pics on the website).  Since I haven't been to Esquimalt since 1996 I know nothing.  This is all I've got:
> -Naden, Workpoint and Signal Hill are close to the base, but a third party has told me that the area is not very nice.
> -Belmont and Royal Rhodes are about 20 minutes away, but nicer
> -Rocky Point is very nice but over an hour away.
> 
> Anyway, my HHT isn't going to be until May, but I'd really appreciate it if anyone familiar with PMQs in Esquimalt can provide their unbiased (or biased) opinion.



Based on two months there in 2004 I would suggest that the Work Point patch is a decent neighbourhood.  I didn't see anything that would put me off living there.


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## Springroll

I currently reside in Work point PMQ's with my three kids and have throughly enjoyed it here so far. It is close to work(5 minute commute MAX), close to school for my kids, and only a short walk along the West Bay Walkway to downtown. It also has all the amenities within a 10 minute drive. 

I lived in Belmont Park from 1999 to 2001. It was alright, but I found it to be to far from town for me. Now that they have begun really developing the area, it is close to a multitude of stores which would probably make it more enjoyable and has a school right in the neighbourhood, but the commute to the base is anywhere from 45mins + both to and from work.  

Personally, when I was given the choice, I chose Work Point for not only my ease, but the ease of my kids in the future.

Good luck with your HHT and future posting!


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## PumpKickr

Springroll, I hope you don't mind if I ask what type of housing is in the Workpoint area? Apartments, row housing, single family? 

We're going to have 3 kids by the time we move and my main concerns are living space, space for them to play outside, a decent pre-school nearby and ease for my spouse to get around while I'm at sea.

I currently walk to work here in Halifax, so still being able to do that in Esquimalt is another big plus for me.


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## Melbatoast

PumpKickr said:
			
		

> Springroll, I hope you don't mind if I ask what type of housing is in the Workpoint area? Apartments, row housing, single family?
> 
> We're going to have 3 kids by the time we move and my main concerns are living space, space for them to play outside, a decent pre-school nearby and ease for my spouse to get around while I'm at sea.
> 
> I currently walk to work here in Halifax, so still being able to do that in Esquimalt is another big plus for me.



I'm not Springroll, but I can answer most of that anyhow.

Work Point is a mix of rowhouses and single family.  There's really quite a mix of single family styles, proper houses, prefabs, tiny little jobs - there are number of each right on the water with decent sized yards.  It's a great location althogether, for the reasons explained.  Definitely the closest to town and work - the others are in commuter country.  Rocky Point is way the heck out there, and the houses aren't all that great, but it's a really good, quiet location if you like rural living.  I think Belmont is the least, uh, scenic.

Some of the Qs behind the base hospital are absolutely unreal, with huge loft living rooms, hardwood floors, and the most beautiful yards in Esquimalt.   A buddy of mine has lived in possibly the best one for several years


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## medicineman

This is sounding interesting, since I too have a message for Esquimalt.  I grew up in Vic, and have since been wondering what was going on at Work Point since 3VP left.  I'm either going to be at the Hospital and/or on ship, so knowing those Q's are still open and in good shape is nice to know - I'm not overly interested in a 400 year mortgage at the moment...being within brisk walking or short running distance to work is always a plus.

MM


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## Springroll

As Melbatoast stated, Work Point is a mix between single family, row housing and duplexes. I live in a 4 bedroom duplex and it seems to work good for us. With that said, I am also a single mother of three kids, so at times, the size seems daunting when it comes to cleaning...(which is most of the time...lol). I have a large front yard and have fenced in my backyard for my dog, but have no neighbours behind me..I love it! Only complaint i have is that I don't have a basement and the one bathroom is very small. 

I would suggest calling up CFHA and notifying them as soon as you have your posting msg in hand. There are currently 8 people on the wait list for 3 bedrooms in Work Point, but come posting season, those moving into the area get first dibs. There is something like 82 on the list for 2 bdrm PMQ's...YIKES!

I hope your moves are fun and uneventful!!


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## PumpKickr

Thanks melbatoast and Springroll, your info is really helpful.  Do you know anything about the Naden or Signal Hill areas? I've got the request for the PMQ all filled out, I just have to decide what areas to be considered for and at this point those are the two that I don't have *any* information on.


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## Desi

Hello PumpKickr

I'm sorry that I can't give you any information on Naden or Signal Hill but I would like to give you my two cents on Belmont Park.  

I grew up in Belmont park for my first 14 years.  My brother in law currently resides there and I like to visit my old stomping grounds once in a while.  I have nothing against Belmont Park, it consists of singles and duplexes, and some row houses at each end of the park.  Most of the houses are 3 levels including a full size basement, living room, dinning room and kitchen.  Very spacious compared to anything you can buy in this city. It just got a brand new school built this past November and offers both English and French immersion classes.  I believe it turned into pre-school to grade 8 but not 100% sure on this.  The yard sizes are pretty big unless your in one of the row houses.  There is a youth centre and a couple of churches.  There are playgrounds placed all around the park.  It is up the road from a skating rink, swimming pool and a library, all newly built in the past 5-10 years.  It is on the outskirts of Fort Rodd Hill and Royal Roads (both can be looked up on the internet I am sure) both great places to take kids to see.  Oh and the Lagoon is also on the outskirts.  With all the new highway construction in the past years, a ride into town can take anywhere from 15-45 minutes depending on rush hour times.  I do remember that my father would walk down to the tugboat (I think it was called F-Jetty) and take that over to CFB Esquimalt and back.  Not sure if that is still an option though.  

Anyway, I hope this helps a little and that you find the right place for you.


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## axeman

signal hill is always taken and always a long wait to get it . or it seems that way . if you can get it  its close to town . but belmont is spacy-er


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## Cronicbny

You can still take the Blueboat over to Naden/Dockyard from Belmont


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## Springroll

I am "assuming" that by asking for Naden, you are referring to the ones behind the hospital. 
Most of them up there are duplexes and single family dwellings. They are pretty big, and definitely have larger bathrooms then those in Work Point or Belmont Park. The same can be said for Signal Hill. Same type of housing but they are in high demand due to them being right beside the base. 

I would have loved a house in either of those areas, but they very rarely come up for grabs. Even Work Point is a tough one to get into...I just happened to have luck on my side when i needed a PMQ.


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## Klinkaroo

I have a friend that is leaving on the plane on Sunday to go to Victoria but in his package doesn't have his joining instructions. Does anyone know where he should present himself when arriving in the taxi to get his Quarters and Rations, what to bring and all that other stuff... He is landing around 1930 Sunday.

If anyone can help thanks,

BTW I told him already he was dumb not to ask


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## Neill McKay

Do you know what he's going for?  (Or where exactly he's going?  Work Point, or Naden, or elsewhere?)


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## Klinkaroo

Naval Comminicator QL1 (Reserves) that's the course, where is the course I really don't know...


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## Ropeburn

If hes going on QL 1 then he should be going to Nelles blk, in Naden. Its on Admirals rd, just down the hill from esquimalt rd, if the cabbie has never heard of it. At that point the Duty Watch should tell him where he's living.  Enjoy.


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## Klinkaroo

Thanks for the quick reply. My friend and I all thank you for giving him a helping hand... I hope he learns from his mistakes


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## Sub_Guy

Ropeburn said:
			
		

> if the cabbie has never heard of it.


Then I recommend you get another cab!  If not you could be in for an interesting ride


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## willellis

Hey everyone. I am looking for some intel on the PMQ process for Esquimalt. I am currently merit listed and want to get my ducks in a row before I ship out. I am will be joining under the Recruit school by-pass plan. Also, I have been told that my initial posting will most likely be to MARPAC. 

First question; am I able to apply to the CFHA for a PMQ as soon as I ship off to the base? (and yes I know that I will not be able to move in till I am done my 3s). Second question; what is the story with the buildings. I have seen that the DND will be constructing new homes between now and 2012 or so. How much more will they cost p/month? Third off, what sort of timeframe am I looking at from application to move in. I am married with a baby boy.

Thanks all,

Will


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## stabmasterarson

I'm wondering the same thing, I have to get a doctor letter saying im good to go for basic, then I get my part 2 physical and interview the same day. I think I'm all good on the background check which is running on me right now, passed CFAT. I want to get my ducks in a row, I will ask to be posted to esquimalt if I can as I am from the west coast.

I have a fiance and young daughter as well so I want to get my name on the list as soon as I can, but it would be nice to know if a house will be available by the time I possibly get there in a few months.


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## ajp

If your posting message  says you are posted to a base then you should be (and correct me if I am wrong) entitled to a MOVE and if there are Q's available you should be able to arrange to get one.


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## ajp

http://www.cfha-alfc.forces.gc.ca/hl-el/esquimalt-eng.aspx


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## willellis

Thanks AJP, good site. I called the CFHA and they said that those who are married with children go to the top of the list with the other family goers. I also have found out that I won't be heading out to Esquimalt right away after all. I have to head back to the concrete fortress. New rules, bah! Oh well, I guess that will just give me more time on the waiting list in order to gain housing. Oh, this raises another question; are family members able to move into PMQ's even if their spouse is on course? Thanks and when are you heading to BMQ stabmasterarson?


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## ajp

I suspect an agaain Correct Me If I am Wrong - your family can move when your posting message says you are actually posted to that location.  You may be on IR or some varient until you complete training.  I have a friend who has not completed "phase" training and in the two years of attempts has waited with a wife and daughter at home.  A really rough go prior to a real deployment/posting.  He really has to pass soon.


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## willellis

Cool. I wasn't sure if the just the family was able to go to PMQs while the member was training. What you said makes sense. And yea, I feel for you buddy. That has to be tough. Thanks again.


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## ajp

No Problem....Just PASS Sooner than TWO Years


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## stabmasterarson

willellis said:
			
		

> Thanks AJP, good site. I called the CFHA and they said that those who are married with children go to the top of the list with the other family goers. I also have found out that I won't be heading out to Esquimalt right away after all. I have to head back to the concrete fortress. New rules, bah! Oh well, I guess that will just give me more time on the waiting list in order to gain housing. Oh, this raises another question; are family members able to move into PMQ's even if their spouse is on course? Thanks and when are you heading to BMQ stabmasterarson?



I am in the process, havent had my interview yet because I got a knee surgery done (acl reconstruction) at the end of august, and have been rehabbing. I put in my application about a month ago, and since then I have passed the CFAT and part 1 physical. They have called 3 of my references and when a fourth called them (they left a msg), she was told that unless she had something negative to say they did not need her  ;D. 

I see the surgeon in 2 weeks and just have to get a letter stating I can do bmq, then I call the cfrc on jan. 4 and book my part 2 medical and interview the same day, the med tech told me. She was eager to get me in ASAP, once I had medical clearance from the surgeon.

Nothing is for sure yet, but I have a feeling Im in, and Im just trying to get prepared as much as I can as I have a family, mortgage, dog, etc.


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## willellis

That's too bad about the knee man. Sounds like you are confident that it will not hinder you physically though. I hope it all works out for you, and who knows, maybe I'll see ya round the dockyards someday. Best of luck.


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## PhilB

Hi all,

I know this is a really old thread but I thought it would be better to resurrect it than start a new one. I recently applied for a CL B posn with the Injured Personnel Support Center, out of Esquimalt. The position, if I get it (I was the only applicant so fingers crossed) would start relatively quickly so I am trying to figure out as much information in advance as I can.

All of that said I am wondering about on base housing for CL B reservists at CFB Esquimalt. I know some bases allow CL B reservists to rent lodging and others do not (i.e. Cl B reservists can get PMQ's in Vancouver). My question is several fold:

1. Does anyone know if Cl B reservists can rent on base lodging at CFB Esquimalt?
2. If yes, what are the costs?
3. If yes, what are the time lines for getting lodging (I know there can be wait times for some of the more sought after locations?)

This is my first experience with a longer term Cl B and also, potentially sorting out housing, so if I am out to lunch in any of my questions please feel free to set me straight!

Thanks for any info.


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## ajp

http://www.cfha-alfc.forces.gc.ca/hl-el/gagetownhr-gagetownml-eng.aspx

This is a useful link for any pers looking at living in the Q's anywhere.


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## Neill McKay

PhilB said:
			
		

> 1. Does anyone know if Cl B reservists can rent on base lodging at CFB Esquimalt?



I believe so.  I know a married couple, both on Class B, who have a PMQ at Work Point.


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## PhilB

Hi guys, 

Thanks very much for the info thus far. I spoke with CFHA and as CFB Esquimalt PMQ's are already oversubscribed I, as a single member, cannot rent one as I could in say, WATC. I am wondering now, if anyone has info on single quarters on base, perhaps a point of contact? 

Thanks again for all of the help.

Cheers,

Phil


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## Ex-Dragoon

You may end up in Nelles Block or Bernays. Go for Bernays if you can, less noisy and the rooms are in better shape.


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## Springroll

Nelles and Bernays are more for temp quarters then for anything long term.


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## Pusser

The houses at Rocky Point are small, not very nice and they are very isolated.  If traffic is good, it's at least a 35 minute drive to Esquimalt, but add another half hour to get past the "Colwood Crawl."  It's also worth noting that if we were building them today, they would not be there because in accordance with the current NATO standard, they are too close to the ammunition depot.


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## George Wallace

Pusser said:
			
		

> The houses at Rocky Point are small, not very nice and they are very isolated.  If traffic is good, it's at least a 35 minute drive to Esquimalt, but add another half hour to get past the "Colwood Crawl."  It's also worth noting that if we were building them today, they would be there because in accordance with the current NATO standard, they are too close to the ammunition depot.



I didn't know that it was in accordance with a NATO standard that we built our PMQs so close to our AMMO Depots.  Dundurn is another example.


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## matt4545

Hello,

I have just completed a component transfer to the reg force navy as a naval communicator from the reserve army. I have been posted to CFFS Esquimalt as of May 5th. From reading some other threads about the naval communicator trade, I have come to the assumption that I will wait on PAT platoon for a few months.(although I have not been offically told)

My question is (assuming I will sit in PAT platoon for a bit) what can I expect? I am keeping my rank (now leading seaman) and also have my 404's, would those two things have any effect on my experience while in PAT platoon?

I apologize if this thread or any similar already exists, but I have not found it on this site.


Any help would be appreciated, Thanks

Matt


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## Pusser

Oops! Typo!  I meant to say that the PMQs at Rocky Point would NOT be there if we were building them today because their current location is too close to the ammunition depot (IAW the current NATO standard).  I've modified my original statement.


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## Pusser

When you get there, talk to whoever is in charge and tell them what qualifications you have and ask if there is anywhere you can be constructively employed while awaiting training.  There are a few options in Esquimalt.  One that might be right up your alley would be the Transportable Tactical Communications Centre (TTCC).  This is part of Maritime Operations Group Four (MOG4) and is essentially an army type communications unit that works for the Navy.  You don't say what you did in the Army Reserve, but if you were a communicator, you may be well placed there.  Having a 404 will help.  Another option could be ORIOLE (if you like sailing).  ORIOLE is the Navy's sail training vessel.  Don't forget also that your period awaiting training is a good opportunity to get all your basic sailor courses out of the way.  We used to call it OSQAB, but they've changed the name.  It's where they teach you all about launnching boats, firefighting, damage control, sea survival, etc.  In short, they will have things to keep you busy for at least part of the time.  For the rest of it, you need to be proactive and influence how you're employed.  Always volunteer for the stuff you're willing to do before you get tasked with the crap that's left over.


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## matt4545

Thank you,

Sorry, I am in the field artillery presently employed on the gun line as a detachment member. I do have my basic army communications course, so I could look into the TTCC. Mostly I would like to get as qualified as possible while I wait, qualifications never hurt to have lol. 

Thanks for the info


----------



## Pusser

You could also volunteer for the Ship's Diver Course.  That's a favourite gap filler.  Lots of running and swimming though...


----------



## matt4545

Ok, thanks for the info. Looks like the best thing to do is look into my options once I arrive in May.

Thanks again


----------



## Lumber

PhilB said:
			
		

> I spoke with CFHA and as CFB Esquimalt PMQ's are already oversubscribed I, as a single member, cannot rent one as I could in say, WATC.



Gents,

I'm getting posted to good ol' Esquimalt, and my significant other and I (soon to be fiance.. hopefully... just don't tell her that) are planning on moving in together. My question is, since we are not married I am still legally "single". Also, while she has pretty much lived at my house most of the year, she has her own place and we are thus not "common law". Will the CFHA take any of this into consideration when deciding whether or not I deserve a PMQ? Or will my legal status as single be the only consideration?

Cheers,


----------



## daver22

I did Port Security for 2 years while I was on PAT. Thats a pretty good place to work.


----------



## matt4545

Port security would'nt be a bad go. 

I have heard some horror stories from guys who did PAT platoon in the army; inspections, boot polishing parades, PT every morining sometimes during the day also, basically being treated like BMQ recruites. From what I have heard about Esquimalt it seems like that does not happen there, or am I wrong in saying that?


----------



## Sub_Guy

You are not wrong in saying that.


----------



## trigger324

treated (somewhat) like a recruit, but not to the extent of what you're talking about there (comparable to the army) i'm not so sure all that would happen to you in esquimalt

unless you were on birds (in ca-ca) maybe, but a couple inspections a week might happen, which would happen likely at any school teaching ql3.


----------



## matt4545

Thanks for the heads up guys, much appreciated.


----------



## RhumRunner

The OSQAB that Pusser is referring to is now called NETP, Naval Environmental Training Program. You attend a short course then finish up the training with an OJT onboard ship. 

After your NETP, you might want to talk to your PAT boss and request to be TD'ed to a ship. You can finish up your NETP and get sailing experience. With any luck, you could tuck in some ports under your belt and be the envy of your future coursemates.

In virtue of your rank, you will be expected to show leadership. Don't think there picking on you because you are put in charge of a group of PATs. Take advantage of this... Ol' crusty chiefs will work for killicks that work hard and show leadership.

As far as inspections, you are in the Navy now. We tend to be more lenient on thing like that. But we do have them, so be up to snuff.


----------



## matt4545

RumRunner said:
			
		

> In virtue of your rank, you will be expected to show leadership. Don't think there picking on you because you are put in charge of a group of PATs. Take advantage of this... Ol' crusty chiefs will work for killicks that work hard and show leadership.



I half expected that I might be put in some sort of leadership position while in PAT. Honestly, bring it on. Anything that gets me noticed in a positive way, and furthers my career is welcomed.


----------



## silverbirdtank

What I meant to say is welcome to pat platoon.


----------



## Pusser

That's some pretty negative commentary there Silverbirdtank.  I gather you've had some experience with this sort of thing?  It's always interesting to see that negative things often happen to negative people (but it's never their fault ^-^).  Security clearances do not suddenly appear and people are not instantly loaded and sent on course when they do.  In the process of approving a request for a dive course, the possibility of being loaded on an upcoming QL3 will be taken into account.  If there's a chance you will loaded on a QL3 that conflicts with the dive course in question, then dive course won't be approved.  It really is that simple.  In this life, it is often best to state your position, ask for what you want and then let the chips fall where they may.  The one surefire way to not get what you want is to never ask for it.  The bottom line for PATs is to ask for what you want.  You just might get it.  As for inspections, as long as you show up on time and in the correct dress, life is pretty easy.


----------



## silverbirdtank

I realize my post came across as negative and it wasn't meant to be so much negative as cynical or a form of amusement. My remarks were taken very personally by some and that is very regretable. 

I know my comment is no longer there for reference but I said basicly the same thing you have said there Pusser and that is that a PAT can not go on any course that will run for a duration that would overlap the beginning of a 3's course in case of the event that sec clearance came in and the individual was on a secondary course.

This is very simple and I never stated it was difficult but was showing and yes in a cynical/negative way that this would mean, next to no possibilities for any NAV COMM pat to participate in the Dive course in question or many others.

I myself was fortunate enough to spend this last week on a base security course as well as being a demo platoon for a pilot naval boarding part combat first aid training. I enjoyed my time with both these taskings immensely and that is the truth.

So in closing i'd like to state I enjoy my time here a lot and that I never meant any ill regard towards the system in place because it is an essential step in becoming a NAV COMM. I personally enjoy my position as a NAV COMM pat and my opinion is far to cynical for the reality of the situation.


----------



## RhumRunner

Pusser said:
			
		

> ... It really is that simple.  In this life, it is often best to state your position, ask for what you want and then let the chips fall where they may.  The one surefire way to not get what you want is to never ask for it.  ...



 :cheers: Well said.


----------



## MasterInstructor

Can someone give an example of a day for Pat platoon in Esquimalt? Hours etc... I should be there in 3 weeks and expected to spend quite a bit of time in PAT, I need Top Secret... I am hoping to live off-base with my common law, that does not seem to be a problem from what I heard so far...


----------



## Occam

MasterInstructor said:
			
		

> Can someone give an example of a day for Pat platoon in Esquimalt? Hours etc... I should be there in 3 weeks and expected to spend quite a bit of time in PAT, I need Top Secret... I am hoping to live off-base with my common law, that does not seem to be a problem from what I heard so far...



Do they still have the painted rocks at the entrance to Naden?   ;D


----------



## Pusser

Occam said:
			
		

> Do they still have the painted rocks at the entrance to Naden?   ;D



No.  Now they have guns on pedastals - the ones I learned naval gunnery on - that need to be scraped and painted.... ;D


----------



## wangsong

I will be posted soon to esquimalt and I' appreciate for who can give me the answer of some questions. I would like to know how much is the PLD paid when you posted to esquimalt... and how much you need to spend monthly based on an average level (what is the rental price for a 1 or 2 bed room apartment.. how much do you have to pay for a car insurance..)


----------



## SupersonicMax

Have you bothered searching for yourself before posting?  

I googled "Canadian Forces PLD" and the first hit was http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/db-as/pld-ivc/index-eng.asp and from there you can access http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/205-eng.asp#sec-45.  

I then went on kijiji.ca and found some places to rent in the Victoria area.

All that in 5 minutes, including typing this message.


----------



## mad dog 2020

Seeing we're on the subject, I looked at the ref: and am at a loss for modern acronyms.  I was wondering what is the LOA (living out allowance) for an OS in Hfx.  
Also what is the method used to determine pts for sea pay. To move from one increment to another. 
old army and out of touch. This is to settle a point of discussion.
Thanks


----------



## catalyst

I live in Victoria and work in Esquimalt. I think the PLD is around 900 - the correct number to be found in Max's link (I don't get PLD, so aren't sure of the specifics). 

Appartments run from 650 - 750 for a one bedroom (depending on location) not including utilities and about 850 + for a 2 bedroom. There are also lots of suites for rent.  I live by the Royal Jubalee Hospital and its about a 15 min drive to work in the morning (work point). A lot of pers live in Colwood, however I'm told the traffic is horrendous (they don't take the blue boat). I have a shared place and pay about 500 for everything. I don't know what electricity costs, but I was told to budget about 50ish bucks if I was living by myself. 

I pay 77 dollars for car insurance (with discount though) through ICBC for my car (1993ish car). Gas is currently at 112 (luckily, car is great on gas). Bus system runs well, with several direct routes to the base.  

Let me know if you have any specific questions.......As I type this I am sitting in my work office overlooking the beautiful outer harbour, float planes are buzzing by and the Coast Guard has a beatutiful ship in port for my viewing pleasure. Oh, and its January, I'm in shorts, and its sunny out


----------



## asstastic1

And I also heard of getting extra pay for being in the navy and for pld and spec pay for mar eng mech also sea pay 
if so how much and when do u recive this


----------



## Michael OLeary

Welcome to Milnet.ca, this is your first and only lesson in searching the site, my own preferred search approach is Google site-specific searches:

site:army.ca halifax quarters

site:army.ca esquimault quarters

site:army.ca pld

site:army.ca spec pay navy

site:army.ca mar eng mech

site:army.ca sea duty allowance

In brief, you can live in quarters as long as they are available, and each entitlement starts when you become eligible for it. Read and learn.

Also, please put a little more effort into your writing, you will get a lot less grief here if you write clearly and use proper capitalization, punctuation and sentence structure.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## medicineman

asstastic1 said:
			
		

> And I also heard of getting extra pay for being in the navy and for pld and spec pay for mar eng mech also sea pay
> if so how much and when do u recive this



Holy run on sentence Batman!!  I had to take a breath half way through that...what Mike said.

MM


----------



## bdcasey916

You could honestly stay in them as long as you wanted, I lived in them for almost two years until I came back from overseas last spring.  However, if you are living in quarters (barracks) you aren't entitled to PLD, which is $674 a month, and the new rate of a single room in the block is just over $250, plus you either buy your own food, pay at the galley, or have rations taken off your pay which is almost $500.  I can't remember from my time on ship in the sick bays, so if someone who is more accurate please correct me, but I don't think new spec trades make spec pay right away.  I know most army trades have to be QL5 qualified first.  And yes if you are posted to a ship you will get sea pay, which starting out is $297 a month.  Remember, both of those, PLD and sea pay are both subject to taxes, just like your normal pay


----------



## sirux0r

Hi,
I'm a Naval Electrical Technician 00125, finishing BMQ in approx 2-3 weeks.
I was wondering if theres a chance I'll be on PAT? Would love to take some leave soon.
Anyone got any information ?

Thanks.


----------



## dirkpitt1211

more than likely.  when you get here they will give you your room and tell you to disapear for the weekend.  do yourself a favour and do that.  BUT  come back on monday fresh and ready to go, get your in-routine done, then ask for leave.  this gets you on the books for your pay and starts your administrative headache that will follow you all along your career.  so get it done right the first time. 

 make sure you ask your coc for a copy of your personal file and keep it with you.  I can't tell you how many times my ghost pers file has saved me.

once you are done your in routine, find out what course you are loaded on then apply for leave.  you many have 6 months to wait or 6 days.  depends on your course.
get yourself on a ship if you can cause PAT sucks.


----------



## aesop081

Stacked said:
			
		

> How do you go about getting yourself on a ship while on PAT?



Like most things, you talk to your supervisor. Even on PAT, you have one. Use your chain of command, thats what they are for.


----------



## Berube

Hello everyone,

I just got enrolled last week as a NESOP and I will begin basic training next week (on October 31st). I know that R&Q is about $500 in St-Jean if you are single which gives you a net pay of around 650$ twice a month.  After basic, I am suppose to spend 6 months or so in CFB Esquimalt. So I was wondering what to expect as net pay every two weeks when I will get in CFB Esquimalt because I have a very tight budget. Is there anyone on this forum that could give me some information about this?

Thank you very much!


----------



## yoman

Berube said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I just got enrolled last week as a NESOP and I will begin basic training next week (on October 31st). I know that R&Q is about $500 in St-Jean if you are single which gives you a net pay of around 650$ twice a month.  After basic, I am suppose to spend 6 months or so in CFB Esquimalt. So I was wondering what to expect as net pay every two weeks when I will get in CFB Esquimalt because I have a very tight budget. Is there anyone on this forum that could give me some information about this?
> 
> Thank you very much!



Rations are 524$ in Esquimalt. I don't know much your quarters will be. 

Good luck on basic.


----------



## ossheard

Hello all, 

I am graduating basic on Nov. 3rd and flying to esquimalt on the 4th to report to my unit.  I feel completely in the dark with what is going to happen next re: training, career, and family.

I know i have 5 weeks of NEPT and after that  9 weeks of mar.eng.mech training (ql3 i think)

I would really like to know what kind of livng arrangements are in my future.  I have already been separated from my wife for the 13 weeks of basic, and shes getting a bit frustrates that i cannot get any info from the school here about whats happening next.

Will i have ro live in shacks during my training?  Or can i get her out to esquimalt and rent an apartment with her for the duration of my next phases  training? And will the military pay for this? 

Also are NETP courses starting every monday sort of thing? Or am i looking like being on pat for a while before starting? 

Ive been told unofficially that only if i will be away from my home/wife for more than 6 months will the military accomodate a move for her...we are newly married and want to have a baby very soon.  

Would a small pmq be an option? 

Any help on answering some of these niave/newbie questions would be very apppreciative.

Thanks.
os. Sheard


----------



## RCDtpr

I can offer no advice on any of the trade/navy related questions you asked.  Here's what I can offer though.  This is just the beginning of the rest of your career.  You will very rearely get info far in advance regarding things like this because, in the CF, nothing is certain until it happens.  My advice to you (and her) is to learn to just roll with the punches and deal with things as they happen.  If you get yourselves worked up everytime you don't get much info on things you will have an ulcer within 5 years.

It sucks, but that's the reality of family life in the CF.


----------



## ossheard

Thanks RCD,

I come from a military family so im kinda used to the last minute decisions that cf members deal with.  We as a couple however are not yet.  Im just hoping that we can be together soon, and that in my new unit i will be able to live off base and not ne confined to a shack where she cannot come and stay/visit if moving her out with me immediatley is not an option.

Again, thank you for your reply.


----------



## FlyingDutchman

If I remember correctly, there are places in esquimalt for married couple, wikipedia says this.



> CFB Esquimalt comprises facilities including Naden (formerly HMCS Naden) [1] , Her Majesty's Canadian (HMC) Dockyard Esquimalt, Fleet Maintenance Facility - Cape Breton (FMF-CB), a Fire Fighting and Damage Control School, the Naval Officer Training Centre (NOTC Venture), and extensive housing including 716 *personnel married quarters* located at nine sites such as Belmont Park, Work Point, and Royal Roads.


----------



## MJP

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> If I remember correctly, there are places in esquimalt for married couple, wikipedia says this.


 :facepalm:  Methinks you need a lane to stay in, rather than robo posting in almost every thread.

No one is disputing that PMQs exist, but he is possibly only going on a short few courses there.  If they are back to back then the military won't move his family out there.  If he is PAT for a longer period it may be an option especially if they decide to post him there after.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Stoker QL3 dates and NETP should be laid down now. The only reason to move your wife out is if you find you are posted to Esquimalt and that wont happen until usually about midway into your QL3. In a perfect world, you wont wait too long and though you may indeed await training for NETP, you would (or should) join a ship prior to that training. NETP is only a shipboard requirement to actually go to sea or to participate as part of the emergency party. I have meetings all day here in Ottawa but if someone from Fleet School Esquimalt hasn't chimed in on this by Monday, I will see if I can find the dates for you. I do know of one person out there who views this forum but I don't know if he actually posts.
That said, even if your QL3 doesn't start until January (or even if it does start before), you are entitled to Leave Travel Assistance once per year to visit your Next of Kin wherever she may be. This is a mileage rate and may not necessarily cover off the entire cost but it helps. I am 49 years old and used it up until my mom passed away (and I married) a couple years ago and at Christmas time, trust me, every little bit helps. 
You might too want to pose your question(s) in the thread dedicated to Mar Eng Trg.
Good Luck and welcome aboard!


----------



## Grimey

Pat, I do post on occasion, although with not being at "The Centre" I guess I have less idle hours to spend on here  

OS Sheard, on arrival in Esquimalt, you will be a PAT (personnel awaiting training) for up to 6 months.  You may be on a Mar Eng Mech QL3 course prior to April, but there are approximately 40 bodies in front of you waiting for the same course.  The chance of you seeing an NETP course prior to that is slim since the wait list is just as long.
As a PAT, temporary employment will be found for you prior to your course.

You can expect to spend your time as a PAT and on course in barracks (Nelles block) usually in a shared room with 3 other guys ( not necessarily your course mates).  You may be allowed to live off base but this is done on a case by case basis.  The Navy will not pay to fly down your wife or furniture/effects until you are posted to a ship on completion of QL3.  There is currently an 80% chance that you will be posted to an east coast ship on completion, we are short baby stokers in Halifax at the moment.

Welcome to the RCN and the Mar Eng branch. umpkin:


----------



## Spooks

2. I do not believe so. I was in Wainwright for 10mon on various PAT/Training matters and our married members were not allowed that. The member had to pay out of pocket to have his wife come down for the weekend (if we had it off). In the ten months we had 2 leave periods (Xmas and spring break) so he flew back to TO at that time to see his wife and kid. 

It's a long time for some however that is the military. What would happen if you are out to sea or deployed for 6months?


----------



## Melbatoast

I'm sure you've found out by now but as a PAT fresh out of basic you aren't qualified to do anything, so if you're somehow attached to a ship you will be painting or prepping something to paint or cleaning something gross.  But the odds are you won't be allowed across the brow of a ship in any sort of work capacity until you at least have an NETP course, at which point you are qualified to cross the brow and maybe, just maybe stand fire sentry.  And if you were to get a shot at going to sea*, there's a 98% chance you would be employed as a Molly and that's about it.

There is no need to be anxious to get to a ship days out of basic - you'll have many glorious years (and years) to spend on ships after you finish your QL3.  Go to the gym, read books, play video games, make new friends and otherwise enjoy your last few months of shore life for a while.

*you will not go to sea as a PAT


----------



## Stoker

See if you can be sent down to MOG 4 and work for the Senior ET down there, you might get a little experience. If you can get on a ship alongside that would be ok as well, get you ship familie done too.


----------



## Pat in Halifax

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> I'm sure you've found out by now but as a PAT fresh out of basic you aren't qualified to do anything, so if you're somehow attached to a ship you will be painting or prepping something to paint or cleaning something gross.  But the odds are you won't be allowed across the brow of a ship in any sort of work capacity until you at least have an NETP course, at which point you are qualified to cross the brow and maybe, just maybe stand fire sentry.  And if you were to get a shot at going to sea*, there's a 98% chance you would be employed as a Molly and that's about it.
> 
> There is no need to be anxious to get to a ship days out of basic - you'll have many glorious years (and years) to spend on ships after you finish your QL3.  Go to the gym, read books, play video games, make new friends and otherwise enjoy your last few months of shore life for a while.
> 
> *you will not go to sea as a PAT


Not 100% true. CFNES got into the habit when PATs came in from St Johns, of employing them on ships-albiet ships either ramping down or fresh out of DWPs. Learning your way around, the 'whos who', daily routines, departmental responsibilities etc is FAR MORE valuable than "painting rocks at the Main Gate".
I am actually surprised this is not policy...or maybe it is?? Someone from either School can better supply the answer here.


----------



## aesop081

Stacked said:
			
		

> Sure as hell beats sitting around doing nothing.



If you had been on PAT doing nothing, i would have given you a "fail" in the leadership and initiative departments. *I'm glad you have found something on ship.* I have seen so many young Privates on PAT complain of nothing to do when they routinely bitched about every assignment they got. I've also seen many ***** about not having anything to do and never lift a finger to find something, let alone ask the CoC for employment. 

Everywhere i have been, a blind man could see a thousand things to do.


----------



## VanStoker

Hello all,

I'm new to the forums, and new to the C.F.  I'm going to be moving to esquimalt soon to start my trade training and NETP course.  Nobody here at CFLRS has any answers to any of the questions I have at this point.  "Your new unit will be able to answer those questions"  is all I've been able to get from anyone.  

I know I'll be living in shacks for the duration of this training, but does anyone around here know how long that will be for?  I really hope I'm not going to be one of those poor guys stuck on pat platoon for many months or even years (a buddy of mine went army a few years back and he was on pat platoon for just under two years)

I'm a mature 32 year old and the 13 weeks of basic has been enough of bunking with immature 18-19 or even young 20 year olds.  I'm hoping that this won't be the case in esquimalt, that being said my patience level has grown exponentially so I'll be able to deal with it if I have to.

Another question, my girlfriend certainly does not want to be away from me any longer.  She's considering moving to Victoria/Esquimalt while I am at school for these courses...Will I be able to see her after work during the week?  And maybe stay with her on weekends?  Basically what are the SOP's for staying in these shacks?  Can I leave and sleep elsewhere on occasion?  Do some guys have girlfriends that they can stay out with.  Is this something that happens?

Also can anyone shed some light on what the working hours are while you are on pat platoon?  Or even what the working hours will be while on NETP or trade training course?

Thank you and any information will be very much appreciated.

Cheers!


----------



## Melbatoast

Stacked said:
			
		

> I've actually managed to get a tasking onto one of the Orca's. I'll get a bit of sea time out of it which is great.  The position I am being employed in is "Wach on Deck". Sure as hell beats sitting around doing nothing.



I spent my first 3 weeks on a ship bombing around the straits - when we tied up my watch PO2 asked how I was feeling and I said "I'm getting used to this 'being at sea' thing."  He came back with an exasperated "Yeah, we haven't been to sea."

Not taking anything away from the Orca tasking, you should learn some useful stuff and have some fun.  Watch on deck is bos'n stuff - lookouts, linehandling, "ship's husbandry" (euphemism for cleaning).  Honest work, you could call it.  My PAT shipboard posting was masking wireways for painting in HMCS CALGARY for a month.  The galley and main cave were gutted so we ate sandwiches every day - a little more typical experience for a PAT.


----------



## Stoker

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> I spent my first 3 weeks on a ship bombing around the straits - when we tied up my watch PO2 asked how I was feeling and I said "I'm getting used to this 'being at sea' thing."  He came back with an exasperated "Yeah, we haven't been to sea."
> 
> Not taking anything away from the Orca tasking, you should learn some useful stuff and have some fun.  Watch on deck is bos'n stuff - lookouts, linehandling, "ship's husbandry" (euphemism for cleaning).  Honest work, you could call it.  My PAT shipboard posting was masking wireways for painting in HMCS CALGARY for a month.  The galley and main cave were gutted so we ate sandwiches every day - a little more typical experience for a PAT.



Going to sea is going to sea even if its on a ORCA or a CPF in the straits no mather what a PO told you.  This is usefull to learn what a watch and station bill is and other shipboard activities, better than painting rocks or other fun. This "bos'n" stuff you speak of is seamanship and we are sailors first and yes ships husbandry such as cleaning stations, probably the most important part of ships husbandry on the ship.
Going to sea is not suppose to be fun, we are there to do a job. Fun comes in foreign port


----------



## Spooks

VanStoker said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> I'm new to the forums, and new to the C.F.  I'm going to be moving to esquimalt soon to start my trade training and NETP course.  Nobody here at CFLRS has any answers to any of the questions I have at this point.  "Your new unit will be able to answer those questions"  is all I've been able to get from anyone.
> 
> I know I'll be living in shacks for the duration of this training, but does anyone around here know how long that will be for?  I really hope I'm not going to be one of those poor guys stuck on pat platoon for many months or even years (a buddy of mine went army a few years back and he was on pat platoon for just under two years)
> 
> I'm a mature 32 year old and the 13 weeks of basic has been enough of bunking with immature 18-19 or even young 20 year olds.  I'm hoping that this won't be the case in esquimalt, that being said my patience level has grown exponentially so I'll be able to deal with it if I have to.
> 
> Another question, my girlfriend certainly does not want to be away from me any longer.  She's considering moving to Victoria/Esquimalt while I am at school for these courses...Will I be able to see her after work during the week?  And maybe stay with her on weekends?  Basically what are the SOP's for staying in these shacks?  Can I leave and sleep elsewhere on occasion?  Do some guys have girlfriends that they can stay out with.  Is this something that happens?
> 
> Also can anyone shed some light on what the working hours are while you are on pat platoon?  Or even what the working hours will be while on NETP or trade training course?
> 
> Thank you and any information will be very much appreciated.
> 
> Cheers!



Okay, this is my *army* answer so take it with a grain of salt.

With your initial training courses, you are CB'd for the first few weeks of the course. Usually, after you have passed some benchmark, you are granted weekends where you can go out and have the weekend on the town (with exception that your platoon-mates don't screw up during the week). At this time, you could stay with your girlfriend if you so wish but I would advise her NOT to move down prior to the end of your training. You also will not be able to see her during the week unless you wish to risk the AWOL charge. This is due to you may not be posted to a ship in Esquimalt and she'd have to move again. Also, if 13wks was a stress for her, wait until your ship goes out to sea or you are deployed.

Bunking with immature guys is part of training. I was merely 2-3 years older than some but I loathed Friday night for guys would come back drunk and pull pranks on everyone. You will find that these guys get their just desserts later in their carreer. Don't sweat it. Your patience is a very good asset to have during these times. Once you are done training, your job is like any job out there - you go to work and you come home (give or take certain exceptions to your particular job and when you serve duty)

As for how long your course is, I don't have an answer for that but be prepared to be on a PAT platoon before training. This will last as long as it needs to until a course opens up or there are qualified pers to instruct on your course. The key thing is that you need to stay eager and proactive if you are on a PAT platoon. Ask your supervisor if you can be put on any taskings and no matter how bad they are, keep asking for them. Trust me when I say that PAT can seem a million times longer if you do nothing on it and it will also look good to your future peers that you are a go-get'er.


----------



## Melbatoast

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Going to sea is going to sea even if its on a ORCA or a CPF in the straits no mather what a PO told you.  This is usefull to learn what a watch and station bill is and other shipboard activities, better than painting rocks or other fun. This "bos'n" stuff you speak of is seamanship and we are sailors first and yes ships husbandry such as cleaning stations, probably the most important part of ships husbandry on the ship.
> Going to sea is not suppose to be fun, we are there to do a job. Fun comes in foreign port



Thanks Chief but I've got some sea time and happen to agree with the PO, but I was just relating a learning experience I had (I'm also a PO - well, paid like one).  There is a qualitative difference between the glassy water of the straits and the huge swell past buoy "J," but of course sea time is sea time.  Orcas occasionally head out there, too, but probably not this time of year.  

And as a former sonar op I've stood far more watch on deck than I care to remember, so I'm extremely familiar with seamanship, ship's husbandry and all the associated fun and value.


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## Melbatoast

GhostofJacK said:
			
		

> Okay, this is my *army* answer so take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> With your initial training courses, you are CB'd for the first few weeks of the course. Usually, after you have passed some benchmark, you are granted weekends where you can go out and have the weekend on the town (with exception that your platoon-mates don't screw up during the week). At this time, you could stay with your girlfriend if you so wish but I would advise her NOT to move down prior to the end of your training. You also will not be able to see her during the week unless you wish to risk the AWOL charge. This is due to you may not be posted to a ship in Esquimalt and she'd have to move again. Also, if 13wks was a stress for her, wait until your ship goes out to sea or you are deployed.
> 
> Bunking with immature guys is part of training. I was merely 2-3 years older than some but I loathed Friday night for guys would come back drunk and pull pranks on everyone. You will find that these guys get their just desserts later in their carreer. Don't sweat it. Your patience is a very good asset to have during these times. Once you are done training, your job is like any job out there - you go to work and you come home (give or take certain exceptions to your particular job and when you serve duty)
> 
> As for how long your course is, I don't have an answer for that but be prepared to be on a PAT platoon before training. This will last as long as it needs to until a course opens up or there are qualified pers to instruct on your course. The key thing is that you need to stay eager and proactive if you are on a PAT platoon. Ask your supervisor if you can be put on any taskings and no matter how bad they are, keep asking for them. Trust me when I say that PAT can seem a million times longer if you do nothing on it and it will also look good to your future peers that you are a go-get'er.



Esquimalt is a lot different than that.  It varies from school-to-school but _generally_ you are required to "maintain a bed" in Nelles block, but don't have to sleep in it.  You're not CBed.  You won't get PLD, but if you or girlfriend want to try to find a place to rent for 3-6 months, completely on your own dime in one of the country's most expensive cities, have at it.  If you are not married or common-law, I expect you'll still be deducted rations and quarters, which is a hefty chunk of an Ordinary Seaman's salary.  You have to come back to Nelles for scheduled room inspections, and make sure your school knows where you will be living.

I'm sure there are there details unique to the stoker school, and maybe they don't allow any of that but Nelles is not like Army shacks.  I know I saw a post by staff at the stoker school recently, hopefully he will chime in.


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## Spooks

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> Esquimalt is a lot different than that.  It varies from school-to-school but _generally_ you are required to "maintain a bed" in Nelles block, but don't have to sleep in it.  You're not CBed.  You won't get PLD, but if you or girlfriend want to try to find a place to rent for 3-6 months, completely on your own dime in one of the country's most expensive cities, have at it.  If you are not married or common-law, I expect you'll still be deducted rations and quarters, which is a hefty chunk of an Ordinary Seaman's salary.  You have to come back to Nelles for scheduled room inspections, and make sure your school knows where you will be living.
> 
> I'm sure there are there details unique to the stoker school, and maybe they don't allow any of that but Nelles is not like Army shacks.  I know I saw a post by staff at the stoker school recently, hopefully he will chime in.



Thank you for edumacating me and showing me that we have it 'special' in the Army. Hats off for you navy folk and closing the book on me making any comments about navy things again.


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## Stoker

GhostofJacK said:
			
		

> Thank you for edumacating me and showing me that we have it 'special' in the Army. Hats off for you navy folk and closing the book on me making any comments about navy things again.



Hey man I think there's some sound advice in your post that's very applicable to our own PAT's. Of course there's going to be some differences between the elements. Thanks for the post.

Cheers


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## Pusser

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> Thanks Chief but I've got some sea time and happen to agree with the PO, but I was just relating a learning experience I had (I'm also a PO - well, paid like one).  There is a qualitative difference between the glassy water of the straits and the huge swell past buoy "J," but of course sea time is sea time.  Orcas occasionally head out there, too, but probably not this time of year.
> 
> And as a former sonar op I've stood far more watch on deck than I care to remember, so I'm extremely familiar with seamanship, ship's husbandry and all the associated fun and value.



Frankly, I've had much rougher rides in small boats and ships than in any destroyer.  As far as I'm concerned, if there's room to manoeuvre, you're at sea, regardless of what's on the horizon.

I think the gist of Chief Stoker's comments about watch on deck was that you called it "boatswain stuff."  His point (and I agree) is that it is not exclusively "boatswain stuff."  It's all "sailor stuff," which is "everybody on board stuff."

For the OP:

There are two basic rules of thumb in the Navy:  1) show up on time, and 2) be in the proper dress.  Many indiscretions will be forgiven (in the long run) if you simply follow these rules.  If you are required to "live in" quarters, as long as you show up on time and in the correct dress, no one cares where you actually sleep (other than a jail cell - and even then, you'd probably have to do it more than once before it becomes a major issue - as long as you show up on time and in the correct dress).

As someone else pointed out, if you are single and ordered to "live in," you will have to pay for rations and quarters (R&Q), which isn't cheap.  However, if the plan is that you will be in Esquimalt for awhile, you may be allowed to move out and get your own place (and stop paying R&Q and pay rent instead).  It never hurts to ask.  Whether your girlfriend moves to Esquimalt is entirely up to her.  Just realize that you/her may be on the hook for all the expenses associated with that.


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## MJP

Stacked said:
			
		

> What I've seen some guys doing here is putting in a memo to stop paying rations and buy their own food. They just had to explain how they were going to eat. (You're not aloud to have hotplates or anything in the rooms) and if they provided a reasonable answer they were able to stop paying. They still maintain a room and pay for Quarters though.



That is interesting considering that many folks across the country were forced to re-link their rations to their quarters a few years back.  We had quite a large discussion at the time about that matter( http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33594.50.html ).  Nice to see some places allow their members some measure of autonomy.


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## q_1966

As far as rations and quarters go, it was cheaper for me to eat at a restaurant every night then it was to pay for rations as I'm not hungry at 6pm but will be at 9 or 10pm. Wish they would of initiate a reloadable card you put money on but then there would be no money to go into the Base Commanders Slush Fund. :stirpot: I'm sure someone will be able to educate us as to exactly where all the money goes...certainly not for a new hand washing sink by the steam line at Nellies Block because new plumbing is expensive...especially now that they built the fancy stir fry bar where you are handling raw meat, guess gloves are cheaper...although I haven't been there in quite a while so maybe my opinion is dated.


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## aesop081

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> :stirpot:



You are not stirring any pots, just showing how clueless you are.

Well done.


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## PMedMoe

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> You are not stirring any pots, just showing how clueless you are.
> 
> Well done.



He was a cook.  Of course he didn't want to eat at the Mess.   :


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## q_1966

It's not that the food wasn't good, most times it was...it's just that I'm a night owl, always have been.


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## Melbatoast

Pusser said:
			
		

> Frankly, I've had much rougher rides in small boats and ships than in any destroyer.  As far as I'm concerned, if there's room to manoeuvre, you're at sea, regardless of what's on the horizon.
> 
> I think the gist of Chief Stoker's comments about watch on deck was that you called it "boatswain stuff."  His point (and I agree) is that it is not exclusively "boatswain stuff."  It's all "sailor stuff," which is "everybody on board stuff."



This is a necro post but I have never seen an ET or stoker (or steward or navcomm or NCIOP...) stand regular watch-on-deck or do partship hands (NCIOPs excepted here), and it is my understanding that techs don't even man special sea duty positions (helm, etc) anymore because...well, who knows.  Instead, it's better for the ship and the Navy to have a PO2 Sonar Op do it  :facepalm:

I spent, realistic estimate, 90% of my time at sea employed out-of-trade and it wasn't higher only because I fought tooth and nail every day to be able to do my job or learn how to do my job.  And this is the point I shut up because I feel a rant coming on.  Suffice to say that no, not by a longshot does "everyone on board" do, or know how to do bos'n stuff.


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## q_1966

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> Suffice to say that no, not by a longshot does "everyone on board" do, or know how to do bos'n stuff.



I couldnt agree with you more, it is also appauling that they stress firefighting but then leave buddy first aid by the wayside, as a casualty clearer, responding to a Casualty Pipe (it was a weekend duty watch alongside homeport) I asked someone to assist, and im happy a PO stepped forward, but the PO didnt know how to do basic C-Spine. It's not just for the casualty clearing _people_, some have been in for 3-5 years or longer and have not done standard first aid since basic training. It is also a requirement for all Casualty Clearers to be AMFR2 qualified (expensive but excellent 2 week course) but thats a long way off as well.


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## Pusser

Melbatoast said:
			
		

> I spent, realistic estimate, 90% of my time at sea employed out-of-trade and it wasn't higher only because I fought tooth and nail every day to be able to do my job or learn how to do my job.  And this is the point I shut up because I feel a rant coming on.  Suffice to say that no, not by a longshot does "everyone on board" do, or know how to do bos'n stuff.



I never said they did.  My point was that what you were describing as "bos'n stuff" is not.  You were describing ship's husbandry and basic seamanship, which we expect all sailors to know.  "Boatswain stuff" goes way beyond that and no, we don't expect everyone to know it.


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## q_1966

Pusser said:
			
		

> I never said they did.  My point was that what you were describing as "bos'n stuff" is not.  You were describing ship's husbandry and basic seamanship, which we expect all sailors to know.  "Boatswain stuff" goes way beyond that and no, we don't expect everyone to know it.



Not to sound on the wrong tack but the galley packet is that regardless of it technically being incorrect, it sometimes still referred to Bosun Stuff.


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## Fishbone Jones

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> Not to sound on the wrong tack but the galley packet is that regardless of it technically being incorrect, it sometimes still referred to Bosun Stuff.




Tut, tut. You're dealing with NDHQ here. They know what's best for everyone. The actual practical, and topical, situation at sea may not jive what they have in their books. 

Best stay quiet before you find yourself in some shore billet warehouse counting marlin spikes until you fly your paid off pennant.


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## maple360

Leaving for Esquimalt, BC this week, just about finished basic. I was wondering what the living area is going to be like and if ill be able to get personal internet setup in the shacks? Thanks.


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## mariomike

This may help.
 Merged
Bruce


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## hicks22

I'm assuming you're an OS. If so you'll be in Nelles block. What it's like can only be experienced. You're in for a treat. you'll most likely have 1-3 roomates. Yes you can have Internet in your room. It's cheap 20 bucks a month. There's also free Internet connection outside the galley.


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## maple360

I am a stoker, and will be a AB (T) when i get there this friday. Also will reporting be anything like cflrs? Or is it a little relaxed? Thanks


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## hicks22

It is nothing like cflrs. When you're on course you have dress inspection Monday morning. Room inspection first Wednesday of every month. And yes they are very "relaxed". You'll report to the regulating office at the fleet school while on PAT. I was on PAT for 4 months and had one walk in walk out room inspection. I'm also MSE div. I'm assuming youre living on base. Unless you have a wife and kids in Victoria you won't be permitted to live ashore on your QL3. You'll march with your course from nelles to the school in the morning, lunch and end of the day. Regardless if you live on base. No marching on PAT. 
I assumed you're doing your 3's. 
5's dont march and are posted so they can live ashore. 
If you're posted to ship, cant help ya.


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## JMacNavy

I'm not sure where to put this but I plan on living off base immediately when finishing my BMOQ. I was wondering who I send a memorandum/contact when I have my pre-arranged apartment set up so I am given my allowance, don't waste a move and I'm nopt paying for quarters and mess at the base. This will be my first military move so I am a little out in left field.


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## Grimey

Going by your profile, I'm assuming you're a CT?  As a PAT or QL 3 student in Esquimalt, you will be in barracks.  The one exception is if you enrolled locally and you have house/appt etc prior to enrollment.


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## Tyson Fox

Hey, it is possible to live out before/during your QL3, if you've been stuck at the base for more than a year. Rare, but it does, and I have seen it happen. Alternatively, you could live out anyway, and just be in your Nelles room for monthly inspection. No one really cares that much.


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## Tyson Fox

Yo, Stacked, you're not the only one who's been here for a year, and not my problem if you didn't read the joining instructions or the School SOP's , wherever I saw that. I'll get the link for you tomorrow.


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## JMacNavy

Who would I go about contacting? Like I said, I have a lot of stuff I want to send out to Victoria and don't want to do it at my own expense. I am UTP-NCM MARS officer and was informed I don't have to live on base during any of my courses and I don't plan on it.


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## Occam

http://esquimalt.mil.ca/cffs/so/SO2/SO%202-30%20Request%20to%20Live%20Ashore.htm  (DWAN only)

 CFFSE SO 2-30


REQUESTS TO LIVE ASHORE


References A.       DAOD 5024-0

B.       DND Living Accommodation Instruction

C.       Base Standing Order 2-201, Requirement to Occupy Single Quarters

D.       Memo “Request to Live Ashore”

E.       Service Request Form
  
Purpose 

1.         The purpose of this Standing Order is to provide guidance with regard to student requests to live ashore.
  
General 

2.         In accordance with ref B, CF members undergoing basic recruit training are required to reside in DND training quarters. CF members awaiting or undergoing occupation training are authorized to reside in residential accommodations of their choice, unless there is a bona fide environmental/military indoctrination requirement, or an occupational or pedagogical training requirement for members to reside in DND quarters. 

Ref C further stipulates the requirement that CF members must continue to reside in DND quarters until the completion of Naval Environmental Indoctrination Programme (NEIP).  Cmdt CFFSE is authorized to exercise the BCmd’s discretion in allowing students latitude for consideration to live ashore, as detailed at ref C. 

3.         In general terms, all CFFSE students shall live in SQ until completion of NEIP regardless of marital status or prior geographical location.  This period is intended to include both Basic Military Qualification (BMQ) and NEIP, after which students may be given flexibility to choose to live ashore.  Considerations that may warrant approval to live ashore prior to the completion of this period include the following: 

a.  completion of at least six months of service.  Reserve force service will not necessarily be considered as contributing to this requirement, but may be assessed on a case-by-case basis; 

b.  completion of NEIP.  Students who have undergone Occupation Transfer (OT) or who have re-enrolled from other Environmental Commands may be granted exclusion from certain portions of NEIP and as such, may be given consideration to live ashore.  All individuals in this situation will be assessed on a case-by-case basis;  

c.  the ability of the trainee to live ashore without adversely affecting training; and 

d.  positive recommendation from the individual’s Chain of Command.
  
Direction 

4.         Students wishing to live ashore are to submit a “Request to Live Ashore” memorandum (ref D) and a Service Request Form (ref E) through their respective divisional system.  Divisional Minute Sheets are to accompany the request and are to include the following information: 

a.  student data (i.e., name/trade/course serial/course dates, etc); 

b.  salient points of the request; and 

c.  Div Cdr recommendation. 

5.         Division Commanders are to forward the request form, memorandum, ancillary documentation and the Pers File to SO Admin for staffing to the Commandant for the final decision concerning living ashore.


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## Melbatoast

JMacNavy said:
			
		

> Who would I go about contacting? Like I said, I have a lot of stuff I want to send out to Victoria and don't want to do it at my own expense. I am UTP-NCM MARS officer and was informed I don't have to live on base during any of my courses and I don't plan on it.



So are you going to university after you finish BMOQ? You need to contact the PSO shop on the base who will set you up with the University Liaison Office, because that's where you're posted (well, technically to your school but all your admin goes through the PSO). You won't be living on base so don't worry about it.

If you're finished school and going to NOTC you'll have to contact them. I have no idea what their living-off policy is.


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## q_1966

NEIP? Different from NETP & the OJT Component of NETP (on ship) once completed?


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## Jacky Tar

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> NEIP? Different from NETP & the OJT Component of NETP (on ship) once completed?



NEIP - Naval Environment Indoctrination Program; was instituted a few years ago to help use up the time of youngsters (rank-wise) on PAT and doing George jobs while they wait for trade or NETP courses. Too many were being allowed to goof off early in the day and then going downtown and getting into shit.


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## jaysfan17

Hi, I was wondering if someone could tell me what the conditions are like in the Work Point Barracks in CFB Esquimalt. I will be staying there for my next contract.


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