# WTB: Small pack, Cadpat biv bag, Cadpat boots



## QuIcKeR (2 Nov 2005)

i am looking for some of this stuff because i live in regina and we get absolutly nuthing when it comes to good kit. 





Ciao 
Kevin


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## armyvern (2 Nov 2005)

QuIcKeR said:
			
		

> i am looking for some of this stuff because i live in regina and we get absolutly nuthing when it comes to good kit.
> Ciao
> Kevin


Well your profile doesn't give much info but I'm gonna take a wild stab at this and say you are a Reserve. So here goes:
Small Pack system - still undergoing initial issue within the Regular Force, although some ResF units have been issued. Don't worry, it's coming.
Cadpat Bivy Bag: 90 % of the Reg Force still doesn't have it...again...be patient.
Cadpat Boots: Still only in the trial stage, but currently being worn by select pers throughout different Units/trades/positions etc as part of the trials so they can get input from all fronts for trial purposes. Relax, these will be awhile yet for all of us.


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## QuIcKeR (2 Nov 2005)

yes i am in the Reserves. i am in 10fld Artillery and i live in regina. I am on course right now with poeple from brandon and they have all the kit that i would like to have. like for example i never did get a ranger blanket. they said that they would ahve the new Cadpat Thermal blankets in like 2 months ago didnt happen. The Cadpat gloves, just got sized for them last week wont get for like 5 more. Small pack everyone im on course from brandon has one. i just think its bull how people get screwed because of were they live. o well when i go reg i should get some better peices of kit


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## Bomber (3 Nov 2005)

Bivvy bags are 200 on ebay.  and there was three of them on there this week.  Go gettum.  Small packs, would run a bit higher cause they are newer.  Save some cash and get one of the decent aftermarket bags offered by all the online kit stores.  Spend no more than 200, and try to get a brown colour so you can still use the bag when you get issued your small pack


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## MPSHIELD (3 Nov 2005)

QuIcKeR- I understand what you are going through; I felt the same way when I first joined... but please understand, we the members of the CF have survived are far less "high tech" kit for decades. It is mostly not a question of "if" you can get it but "when". I went to Clothing at our ASU to get 3 of our new troops issued with the very "basic" of kit issues and they didn't even get Valises, outer sleeping bags, and even a CF Cap badge (to mention a few). So if you think you have it bad, imagine joining and not having enough stock for the new recruits. Imagine what their first impression is of not even having a cap badge.   

Please be patient as there are people with operational requirements that need it first. I realize the supply system is not perfect (no offence armyvern), but they have to kit out approx 60 000 members with kit and sometimes the kit takes a while to filter down. It sucks when some people get the fancy new stuff and some do not. Be patient it will come, like 2332Piper said, kit doesn't make the soldier. I don't think not having all this "gucci" kit will affect your soldiering skills and whether you will pass the course or not. 

Please don't take this post as a "slag" or an attack. I'm just trying to enlighten you with the way things are.


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## armyvern (3 Nov 2005)

MPSHIELD said:
			
		

> (no offence armyvern)


No offense taken, far from it...the system actually offends most 911ers I know...it just sucks trying to work within it!!     

And I think you meant to say the Supply System WASN"T perfect in your post!!  ;D


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## MPSHIELD (3 Nov 2005)

armyvern-Oops-Grammar corrected!


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## armyvern (3 Nov 2005)

MPSHIELD said:
			
		

> armyvern-Oops-Grammar corrected!


Good!! After all how offended could I possibly be by your calling the Supply system perfect?? Ha ha.  ;D


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## Black Watch (3 Nov 2005)

I gotthe small pack... it rocks!!! Strap your valice on it and you have the perfect patroll bag. It's light, you can put more kit than you wold expect, and it's cadpat. For the boots, i have a pair for trials...not so bad, but in wt times, the cadpat boot doesn't stand comapre to our actual boots.  :bullet:


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## Armymedic (3 Nov 2005)

MPSHIELD said:
			
		

> Please be patient as there are people with operational requirements that need it first. I realize the supply system is not perfect (no offence armyvern), but they have to kit out approx 60 000 members with kit and sometimes the kit takes a while to filter down. It sucks when some people get the fancy new stuff and some do not. Be patient it will come, like 2332Piper said, kit doesn't make the soldier. I don't think not having all this "gucci" kit will affect your soldiering skills and whether you will pass the course or not.



I am in a very operational unit. I personally have been on 3 tours in the last 4 yrs...

I don't have alll that kit either:

I have a CADPAT patrol pack, I have a green bivy bag, I will not get the CADPAT ranger blanket. One of my Cpls just got the CADPAT Jacket. None of us have the new snow shoes yet. And CADPAT boots might look good, but are they? The Mk 3s you have are the standard, and while running around Dundurn or Shilo, they'll work well.

Use what you got, don't try and buy what you may be issued in the near future. Its not worth the money.

BTW, I used to be 64 Bty some 18 yrs ago....


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## Bomber (3 Nov 2005)

Lets just not talk about the new "Snow" shoes.


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## Black Watch (4 Nov 2005)

well but small pack is so good


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## GO!!! (4 Dec 2005)

I still dont' have a CADPAT bivvie bag.

The patrol pack is OK, but the buckles have broken when frozen, or when subjected to heavy loads (80lbs plus)

The CADPAT boots turn white when the color fades, and the soles freeze just like the Wet weather's, causing some of the most spectacular wipeouts on ice you have ever seen.

The new snowshoes are utter garbage, they break in anything below -10C.

So cool your jets, you are'nt missing a whole lot.


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## nULL (4 Dec 2005)

Does anyone else have a problem with the CADPAT gloves having zero insulating value? Even stacking them with the liners, cold seemed to go right through them.


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## Spanky (4 Dec 2005)

I don't believe the cadpat gloves are supposed to insulate.  They are for temperate weather.


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## chrisf (4 Dec 2005)

They're not insulated, just a regular old leather glove with a cam job.

Most of the newer kit is a pain in the rear when you live in an enviroment that can go from +15 to -15 in the space of 6 hours. The older kit had a broader temperature range, if for no reason other then it was based more around layering... not saying the goretex isn't an improvement, just irritated by how centric most of it is around specific temperatures...


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## Tracker 23A (4 Dec 2005)

With some small issues, overall the new equipment is much better than what we had.   No matter what is produced, and fielded, there is always someone who think's there is something better, and there probably is.   Nonetheless, I think the new kit is pretty good from what we had.

Some, not all, of the new equipment was designed to replace older items where some was created to fill empty holes.

Using the new equipment in ways it was not designed or intended to be used, will damage it and cause those doing it to think it is a piece of junk.   For example, those new CADPAT gloves are not designed to be worn with liners, they are supposed to be snug to enable the wearer greater manipulation and dexterity with them on (weapons, equipment).   They are only meant for Temperate climates, reference the zero insulating value.   

Beggers cannot be choosers.   And from where we came from in terms of past equipment, we were definately beggers.


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## chrisf (4 Dec 2005)

No argument that the new kit is by and large better, but I'm just irritated by some of the new equipment being designed around very specific temperature ranges...

As with the new gloves, the options are the temperate glove, or the cold weather glove... I'm not kidding when I say the enviroment that I live/work in can swing from +15 to -15 in 12 hours. With the old combat gloves, you could just take out the liners at the warm end of the spectrum, and accept the fact that you were going to be a bit cold at the cold end of the spectrum. The new cold weather gloves are far far too warm anything more then a few degrees above zero, and don't even bother with the temperate gloves in any sort of cold weather...

Another example, the boots... as I understand it (And I would love to be mistaken here, so if I'm wrong, please correct me), the reason the old combat boots are in short supply right now is because they're not being reordered, as they're being replaced by the temperate boot. The old boot was an extremely functional boot, just a basic, full leather boot, useable with reasonable comfort across an extremely wide temperature spectrum, as well as being extremely durable. It's flaws were in it's soles (Speed laces and maybe a loop at the back of the boot would be nice as well). Unfortunately, as I understand it, there will be no replacement for it... again, same issue as with the gloves, no happy medium for what I would consider a normal Canadian climate.


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## Britney Spears (4 Dec 2005)

So, the fact that the old leather gloves, or any kind of glove that's big enough to accept a liner, were also  useless for operating weapons doesn't bother you at all?

The old glover/liner combo is a useless POS. I can't imagine what ANYONE would wear it for, aside from handling POL in a pinch.  New temprate gloves are more cbt arms oriented. It's nice to get our own kit instead of making do with stuff designed for wogs.


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## GO!!! (4 Dec 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> So, the fact that the old leather gloves, or any kind of glove that's big enough to accept a liner, were also   useless for operating weapons doesn't bother you at all?
> 
> The old glover/liner combo is a useless POS. I can't imagine what ANYONE would wear it for, aside from handling POL in a pinch.   New temprate gloves are more cbt arms oriented. It's nice to get our own kit instead of making do with stuff designed for wogs.



bing bing bing!

We have a winner!

The problem is that so few people in this army are convinced that their job is centered upon fixing, operating or driving something, and that the whole "killing" part is just an anomaly.


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## Black Watch (4 Dec 2005)

will we ever get CADPAT groundsheets?????


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## loyalist (13 Dec 2005)

I think what everyone needs to realise is that no military ever has a perfect kit range. With this new CADPAT and IECWS equipment coming out, people are having divine fanstasies about solve-everything kit that will make them comfortable no matter what situation might arise. Being at RMC, where there seems to be a game of "who can get the new kit first"? going on, I've heard some major speculation on "what the tac vest must be like" and "how great gortex boots are". Really, no kit is ever going to solve all of your problems. Even the very well-funded Americans have troops in Iraq with a countless amounts of personal kit, making an industry out of the matter. You've got t realise that the kit we're getting is going to have some growing pain, but that troops 10-20 years ago would have been very happy to get anything  close it, so you can stop complaining. Think of the soldiers who took Europe wearing wool uniforms and thin cloth webbing!


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## GO!!! (13 Dec 2005)

loyalist said:
			
		

> I think what everyone needs to realise is that no military ever has a perfect kit range. With this new CADPAT and IECWS equipment coming out, people are having divine fanstasies about solve-everything kit that will make them comfortable no matter what situation might arise. Being at RMC, where there seems to be a game of "who can get the new kit first"? going on, I've heard some major speculation on "what the tac vest must be like" and "how great gortex boots are". Really, no kit is ever going to solve all of your problems. Even the very well-funded Americans have troops in Iraq with a countless amounts of personal kit, making an industry out of the matter. You've got t realise that the kit we're getting is going to have some growing pain, but that troops 10-20 years ago would have been very happy to get anything   close it, so you can stop complaining. Think of the soldiers who took Europe wearing wool uniforms and thin cloth webbing!



Blah blah blah, how can you be crusty when you're not even a subbie yet? 

Playing the "old soldier" and "be thankful for what you do have" is an old line, and one we have all heard before - from old soldiers!

Those of us who use the kit will stick to critiquing it without the opinions of a one bar wonder to lecture us on how fortunate we are. Stick to the books, and have a great day.


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## loyalist (13 Dec 2005)

I'm not trying to speak lie an "old soldier", and your uneccesary accussing me of trying to imply that I'm arrogant enough to believe I am is really not welcome. I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who has seen people roast their feet on marhces in their "fabulous magical solve-all" gortex boots, complain incessantly about the webbing and fantasize nonstop about the tqactical vest. I then thought: what about those who were fantasizing about the 1982 pattern webbing in 1981? It's really not all that great!"
  Really, the fact of the matter is that no kit is going to solve all your problems, and knowing it's limitations is key. The new kit that I've had the joy of working with so far has been great, and I'm looking forward to all those new items they have lined up for us at DND: vests, C7A2's, ballisitc sunglasses, gucci headwarmers, gortex socks and stocking, polypro...but I'm not expecting it to be the save-all, either. Thinking that way is just depressing.

Now, back to the books.


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## NL_engineer (21 Dec 2005)

Something I find funny is thew CFSME PATS patloon, as of last summer, had most of the new clothing/equipment except the tackvest. I found it kind of funny because the new recruts in my unit are issued a tacvest with the rest of there equipment.

My bigest beef with the tacvest is that it can only hold 5 mags (rummer mill is saying that our basic load will be upped to 10 in the next few years)


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## GO!!! (22 Dec 2005)

loyalist said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to speak lie an "old soldier", and your uneccesary accussing me of trying to imply that I'm arrogant enough to believe I am is really not welcome. I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who has seen people roast their feet on marhces in their "fabulous magical solve-all" gortex boots, complain incessantly about the webbing and fantasize nonstop about the tqactical vest. I then thought: what about those who were fantasizing about the 1982 pattern webbing in 1981? It's really not all that great!"


Strange, I've seen men hike through Afghan mountains in the Wet weather boots with wool socks and foot powder, and while I would'nt reccomend them, they are far and away superior to putting gore tex liners into the mk 3s or buying 300$ Danners.
   
Really, you have'nt even been in the army yet, so lay off on the learned critiquing of kit.



> Really, the fact of the matter is that no kit is going to solve all your problems, and knowing it's limitations is key. The new kit that I've had the joy of working with so far has been great, and I'm looking forward to all those new items they have lined up for us at DND: vests, C7A2's, ballisitc sunglasses, gucci headwarmers, gortex socks and stocking, polypro...but I'm not expecting it to be the save-all, either. Thinking that way is just depressing.



Want some pom poms to wave while singing the praises of the DND and toeing the party line?

Pretty amazing how you managed to turn into a "yes" man so quickly! Now tell us what you think of the great staff and seniors at RMC, and how great they all are - I know you want to!


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## brihard (25 Dec 2005)

My attitude is 'any idiot can be uncomfortable in the field'. I take the kit I'm issued, do as best I can with it, and if absolutely necessary supplement it with something civvi-side- for instance I had a family member pick me up some OD green Under-Armor in Qandahar when she was last there.

I refuse to wait with baited breath for anything the Puzzle Palace has working it's way down to us- I'm no 'old soldier' or battle hardened grunt, just an R031, but I've got enough familiarity with DND through my family that I don't expect miracles of them.

When a new piece of kit rears its pretty head, that's great, but (in my limited experience) I've gotten by just fine with what I have. If the army wants my Goretex to be OD green so someone with a real job to do can get it, that's fine by me, and if the new private who somehow has an ICE Goretex jacket wants to flaunt it, good for him.

That's not to say I'm not a bit of a kit-whore; if I can get it I generally will, but I don't hold with the line of thought that the army has a God-given obligation to get every reservist into CADPAT everything as fast as humanly possible. I don't see a need for my bivvy bag or ground sheet to be CADPAT when there are other priorities. I'll take something plain green and combat effective over something purely gucci and unproven any day.

Maybe I'm right out to lunch though; I trust you guys'll let me know if that's the case.


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## loyalist (27 Dec 2005)

Piper said:
			
		

> You guys got WWB's and were allowed to wear them on course? I'm jealous (MK III's do a nasty little number to my feet).
> 
> As GO said, wait until you have actually used the kit to critique it.
> 
> ...



I'm not critiquing. I've said that I've _heard_ all kinds of stories about the new kit. I was using this to back up my argument that it's porbably wise not to make any fantastic expectations about the awesome abilities and magical new kit.


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## brihard (2 Jan 2006)

Some of the stories I hear about new kit sometimes sound almost as promising as some of that junk email I get in how miraculous it's supposed to be.  ;D


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## armyvern (2 Jan 2006)

Well, I for one wear my WW Boots every day, winter & summer, marches and all. I have not experienced any problems with them feet-wise. One of my Cpls, on the other hand, marched in hers a couple of times and had major troubles. I personally prefer them over the MKIII but many others have their own stories. What works for one person does not necessarily work for all.


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## brihard (2 Jan 2006)

armyvern said:
			
		

> What works for one person does not necessarily work for all.



Very true, and something worth keeping in mind for both sides. That's exactly why I like to have the options.


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## Patrolman (3 Jan 2006)

The markIII with vibram soles are a good combo. I find the wwb is good for regular work days in the winter when out of doors. Garbage for me when marching. Too hot and create blisters very easily.


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