# Tye Dye; because hippies are SOOOOOOOOO cool



## Fader (10 Jun 2003)

After giving my ghilie suit a wash, I was horrified to find that the color had changed horribly.  

My ghilie suit was made by tying two, 8-12 inch long strands of burlap through the holes of a CADPAT Camnet and trying them in a double not/half hitch (whatever, i‘m no lineman).  The burlap had a woodland camo pattern dyed on only one side, and thus, the other side was a very, very light brown (like most burlap normally is).  After giving it a wash, visually apperant scrim thus became very brownish.  Ironic, since it would look great in desert terrain, but horrible in most Canadian forests this time of year.

Anyway, I bought some olive drab dye, and dyed the whole net, as well as some of the extra burlap as well as my scarf (Tie Dye so it‘s no longer just Republican Guard Green).

To anyone who has a ghilie suit, how do you maintain and clean yours?  Did you make yours in a similiar fashion as me?  I think in retrospect, I should have used jute instead of burlap, but I think that would have tripled the cost of the thing.  Also, how do you keep yours woodland green?  Do you dye it like I just did or do you have some other magical formula for keeping it that color?

Peace ^^


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## Mike Bobbitt (10 Jun 2003)

A ghilie suit?

Linemen have become much more tactical since I last saw one!   

I‘d bet that shoe dye won‘t wash out, though I have no idea if it‘s available in olive or not...


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## Fader (10 Jun 2003)

I‘m not a lineman so I wouldn‘t know.

I think the dye I used won‘t wash off, at least I hope.  Only after the big games this weekend will I know for sure how well it holds up.


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## Redneck052 (11 Jun 2003)

I didn‘t think Sigops need gillie suits either.


Ohhhhhh.....LUI, you think you are some kind of sniper!  I gues that would mean that you have been to the range twice in the last 12 months?


You are such a flake!!!

  :fifty:


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## Fader (11 Jun 2003)

Tch, I‘d have more use in the field for my pillow, CD Player and a bag of M&M‘s than I do for my ghilie suit.  I do plan to have some fun with it in the field in Kingston over the summer.  But my main use for it is for paintball!  I finished it a month ago, and already have used it in two big games (much to my success as well).

In response to you‘re  comment about my being a snper, a major from my unit came up to me one day in the mess (it was our year end party) and said:
"A ghilie suit, eh?  What, you going to be a sniper?" 
To which I replied:
 "No, sir, as was evidant in the last range ex, I‘m a pretty bad shot."  
I think that gave him quite a laugh.

Another thing about that range ex (you‘re right, the only one of the year which I am proud to say, I shot 37/60 the first time, failing, then 59/60 on my retest with a, get this, 80mm grouping).  My friend, a little Chinese girl who just finished basic who most peoplewouldn‘t expect to be in the army (by apperance of course), didn‘t even have DEU‘s, and didn‘t even have the current issue of the olive drab uniforms (she had the tuck in type, with no mag pockets) shot 60/60 her first time with a 5mm grouping.

At our mess diner, she recieved the top shot award, and when she went to recieve it, she was in a dress most girls would wear to a high school grad.  I was driving an L.Col that night, an Airborne gone siggy L.Col I might add, and when he saw her, I could tell he was unimpressed.  I think he was even more unimpressed when I told him my score on the range.

As for the ghilie suit, I‘m quite pleased.  Last night, I soaked it in leaf green dye and it‘s looking tight!  The camnet is square, so what I did was make the burlap very dense around the shoulder/arm part (eg: where the net would lay after I tied it to myself).  I soaked that part in dye, and it looks like it permeated the material very, very well.  I‘ll post some pics of my ghilie suit someday.


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## TWR-052 (11 Jun 2003)

....What IS your point.  Is the piont that you have NO friends, and you try to create conversations by invoking agruement?

Your a mindless excuse, all you do is make it harder for those reservists that actually have pride in their work, in themselves, and serve proudly.

Do ALL reservist a favor......GET OUT!!!

  :sniper:  

It wasn‘t to hard to a three foot screnn with a fig.11 target from the 50 yard line.

Too bad you failed the first round there SNIPER!  Too bad if it was in combat, you would be worm food.

  :skull:


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## Redneck052 (11 Jun 2003)

TWR-052....

Right on.....you think this one is good...you should read the other posts that Lui has put out!


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## combat_medic (11 Jun 2003)

To anyone reading this forum; Lui is not talking about a real ghillie suit, nor is he talking about real shooting or anything to do with the military.

His ghillie suit is some little childish paintball gaming thing, which he takes more seriously than his military career. Somehow he feels the need to talk about paintballing here, thinking it‘s somehow related to the army.


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## Jason Jarvis (11 Jun 2003)

> My friend, a little Chinese girl who just finished basic who most peoplewouldn‘t expect to be in the army (by apperance of course), didn‘t even have DEU‘s, and didn‘t even have the current issue of the olive drab uniforms (she had the tuck in type, with no mag pockets) shot 60/60 her first time with a 5mm grouping.


Okay, I know I‘m splitting hairs here, and I do love a tall tale as much as the next guy -- and LUI‘s spun some great ones -- but a 5 mm grouping? Since you‘re firing a 5.56 mm calibre weapon, that would imply . . . well, you get the point. How about a 50 mm grouping? Much more realistic but no less impressive, that‘s for sure.

Since the 10-ring on the 50 m Olympic smallbore target -- my specialty -- is only 10.1 mm, that would make her one h*ll of shot -- especially considering you were probably at what, 200 m?

While I have no doubt she‘s a great shot -- and I‘ve been whomped by many female shooters -- get your facts straight. All you‘re doing is bringing her down to your level, something I‘ve no doubt she‘d be ashamed of.


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## TWR-052 (11 Jun 2003)

When Lui went to the range, all his unit more than likely shot was the PWT level 1.  So that would mean that they did 2 groupings at the 100, than a mass grouping, taking up the total of two or three serials.

So in short... he‘s full of sh*t.  He probable thinks a five inch grouping is great.

Any one know exactly what the PWT level 1 includes?

  :sniper:


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## combat_medic (11 Jun 2003)

TWR: The PWT1 is the really dumbed-down version of the PWT3. You shoot at the 100m and 200m, no run downs, nothing further than the 200m, some for grouping, some for speed, and the whole thing is scored out of 40. Pretty $hit simple to pass, and not too tough to get 100% on.


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## TWR-052 (11 Jun 2003)

Thats what I was recalling, I just couldn‘t quite remember exactly...... I guess it‘s the welfare version for DRT.


  :sniper:


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## WINDWOLF (11 Jun 2003)

I was going to do a long & intense rant about
this silly ghilie suit thing,but you guys 
are doing such a outstanding job you all
don,t need me for this.I will just sit back
& enjoy the responses.

Go get,m boys.


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## Deleted member 585 (11 Jun 2003)

It‘s so hard to ignore that sh!tstain... I try but his pollution drifts into every decent thread, thus corrupting it.

I dreamt of throttling him with a clack-handle.


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Jun 2003)

A matter of fact from the uniform grog - but the tuck in type IS the latest issue of the green Combat shirt.  It‘s called a Mark III IIRC, and I wore them exlusively before CADPAT.  

The type with the mag pockets were the older ones.


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## Thaedes (11 Jun 2003)

Guys, you might not likely lui, or what he says.  But thats your perogative.  I‘ve read all the recent postings, and commentaries.  You guys are just saying sh*t to him now without any real good or valid points.

You don‘t like his attitude, fine, say it and get on with life.  Doesn‘t mean you have to deliberately make an as$ out of yourselves just to make him feel worse.

He doesn‘t aspire to be a great soldier like many of you do, it isn‘t his goal or focus in life.  And at the end of the day, its his f*ckin choice so lay off.

Many of you say your in the military because of Honour, and its the right thing to do for your country.  It strikes me as a load of b*llsh*t when people say that then come on to a forum and degrade a fellow Canadian simply because he doesn‘t see sh*t the way you do.  Or because he isn‘t as serious and rightminded as you believe yourselves to be.  Remember, when you are protecting this country, your protecting guys like Lui, and many guys who are much worse.  The fact of the matter is, that you have to learn to accept that people will be the way they will.  Lui has a d*mn right to act the way he does.  Its in the constitution.  You don‘t have to approve of it, but to slam him every time he makes a post is just ignorant of you.  

If you want him to change, why don‘t you change yourselves.  Be a good example, cause all I‘m seeing is a bunch of guys pickin on another guy.  Wheres the honour in this?  Wheres the right attitude in that?


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## Deleted member 585 (11 Jun 2003)

These forums are founded on clearly Canadian military themes.  Veterans, soldiers, new recruits, and civilians sometimes debate here, usually without incident.  If you can‘t tell -- there is a strong undercurrent here of reverence for military service.

I agree that many of us are quick to set Lui ablaze, but most of his posts have come to epitomize the selfish, apathetic, and ineffectual traits which military training aims to eradicate to help build good troops.  His words convey a disgustingly cavalier attitude towards the Forces.  Repeated exposure to those traits is what insults many of us.

I wish you all the best in defending negligence as a positive "choice" for a soldier.

Cheers.


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## Thaedes (12 Jun 2003)

Again, thats merely your opinion, and your welcome to express it.  But at the end of the day, you‘ve never met Lui in real life.  You haven‘t a clue what he is really like and how he really acts.  

For all you know, he could be saying some of the stuff he says merely to antagonize and to provoke childlish reactions like what we‘ve been seeing lately.

And if you can‘t tell, I fully unterstand the theme of the web site, and the undercurrents therein.  I am joining the forces myself, and plan to give it my best 100% of the time.  Regardless, I see the behaviour of many of the members of the board here as worse then how Lui has conducted himself.  

As for your concerns about repeated exposure to his traits.  Who cares?  Do you honestly care if you see a guy acting like an idiot in your eyes?  Do you honestly feel compelled to change his ways and justified to do so by singling him out and calling him an idiot and trying to make him feel stupid?  Do you honestly believe that will change anything?  Get real.  

As for "defending negligence", get off your high horse.  I‘m not defending the mans opinions, I‘m defending the mans *right* to have those opinions.  And last I checked, thats what peace keeping missions were about, defending peoples *rights*.  

So yeah, Cheers!


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## WINDWOLF (12 Jun 2003)

Everyone has a right to their opinon but with
that right comes responsibility.

Responsibility to not create sesationlist veiws
that cause outrage among people with the same
mind set.

Lui,s view of military life is at the other end
of most of us.So be it. Do not rise to the bait
so that he can get his daily thrill as being
the rebel without a clue.

He may grow up & realize that this type of
baiting is just the weak minded way to feel
important & to justify his lackluster life.

I am just as defensive about the service as you
are,but we are not getting anywhere with him.

Veiw his posts & treat it like t.v.
If you don,t like what you see,change channels.


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## Pte Lickers (12 Jun 2003)

uh   We dont have a constitution in Canada, we have a charter of human rights and freedoms.

an whos lu,i   whys everybody mad at him.  

and talking sh*t to each other over the internet is probably alot more retarded then anything this person has ever said or done, but then again i‘ve never ead his posts

thats my 3 cents


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## muskrat89 (12 Jun 2003)

I would add that soldiers exist to defend democracy, not practice it. I choose not to reply to Lui, but intentional or not, he has mastered pushing everyone‘s buttons. Proud military people are a different breed, you see - we don‘t hold ourselves (nor should anyone else) to the same standards as the rest of society. Thaedes - you‘ve got gumption, and hopefully you will learn that "we don‘t have to accept people the way they are". I don‘t think you can understand Unit morale until you‘ve experienced it. People not aspiring to do their best can endanger people - is Lui who you want on sentry at night, while the rest of you sleep, because he doesn‘t aspire to the same things we do, and we should leave him alone??  C‘mon...  His mindset is dangerous at worst, selfish at best.


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## Thaedes (12 Jun 2003)

Point well made Muskrat.  And there is no debating that.  When push comes to shove, if I had to rely on someone who wasn‘t giving it his best, then no - I wouldn‘t rely on said individual.

My only contention however, is that we are way to quick to judge Lui.  He may seem careless, but thats only a superficial observation, made over the internet through the writings and commentaries of his.  Can we honestly say we have a clue as to what his work ethic is like?  

People often say things on message boards, that they may not have meant.  They often say things that don‘t really impart what they meant to say.  All I am saying, is give the guy the benefit of the doubt.  He is young still, plenty of room to grow and learn.  In his post about the Feu de joie he says;



> It really puts things in perspective too, being in a parade with 300-400 soldiers from across Western Canada. I told a guy who did basic with me who was there: "To be honest, this is the probably first time I‘ve felt like a soldier since basic." Also, after listning to Col. Boufards speech, I think I had a change of heart as to the relevance of the reserves, as well as the relevance of being a reserve soldier.


Apparently, the guy has been really thinking on his conduct on these forums, and how you guys have treated him.  So much so, that when he went to this ceremony it made him reflect and reconsider some of his ways and opinions.  

What happens?  Everyone burns him anyways.  Some people apparently expected him to change overnight.  

Anyways, as I‘ve said.  I‘m not defending his opinions, only his right to have said opinions.


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## Fader (12 Jun 2003)

Hehe, thanks Thaedes, I appreciate your concern and respect your conviction, but don‘t worry, the motto I live by living primarily on the net is "Winning an argument on the net is like winning Gold at the Special Olympics, either way you‘re retarded."  With that, I take it all with a grain of salt.

To be honest, the reserves has been an integral part of my life over the past 2 years, and I see it as being such for at the very least, a few more to come.  What I wanted to get across to a lot of people was not that I think the way I think because I don‘t care, but rather, I think that way because I do.  My apathetic, slack mentality I attribute to being in such an environment.  Perhaps it‘s differant for most of these guys as for the most part they‘re PRes combat trades or reg force, where they probably take things more seriously than we do in PRes support trades.  I think I have the best unit in Canada, because there are so many guys just like me.  While you could use the argument "I wouldn‘t want that guy in a trench with me during a firefight;"  any one of my mates at the unit will probably say something like "Yeah, we probably won‘t be anywhere near the firefight when it happens."
Whatsmore, my attitude I think reflects the attitude of my peers and perhaps of the era I live in.  I read an article running in the Globe and Mail documenting "The New Canada;"  which was about the uprising generation of 20 year old Canadians and how thier mentality differed dramatically from the more conservative older generations.  While I know I‘m 6 months shy of being in that category, and I know there are likely alot of 20 year olds who arn‘t as modernized at the article describes, I do know that many of the attributes described of the youth of today are attributes I share.  I also know that I exhibit and practice those attributes and beliefs in every aspect of my  life; the reserves included.
By no means to I mean to be ominous as well, but it is my belief that that‘s the way our society is going.  A generation of people believing in peace, equality, stability and egalitarianism is making it‘s rise, and I know it‘s only a matter of time before that mind set, to a degree that is practical, is present within the military.  To a degree, i think it already is.  I take Windwolfs attitude and experiences as soldier and the attitude and experiences I have, and there is a world of contrast; the man was medically released in was it 1989?  Well, in 2003, I think things have changed dramatically.  **** , within my unit there are guys who lived to see the change and always go on about it, much in the same way alot of folks around here do.
But back to my original post; I probably screwd up the stats on the range ex; again, it was almost a year ago, and I just wanted to get out of the cold, windy range and get back home and sleep.  I‘ll ask my friend what she shot and what her grouping was, and I‘ll get back with that.  The point I was trying to get across was that I think it bugged the L.Col that a girl who had been in for less than a year outshot 40-50 male soldiers, some of whom had over 9-10 years experiences.
As for my Ghilie suit, call it what you will, the reservists I‘ve gone paintballing with called it a ghilie suit, my OC called it one, anyone who sees me when I‘m wearing it calls it one, thus I call it one.  But after dying it, I have to say I‘m quite impressed with it;  when i put it on, literally, I look like a bush.   My POINT though was... well... I didn‘t have a point.  I had a question though to all the guys who have ghilie suits; that being, how do they maintain it and prevent it from wearing down?  Also, how did the originally construct it?  I‘m pretty sure that was in my original post too.


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## riggah052 (12 Jun 2003)

Lui I have a question for you? Why don‘t you try your hand at the infantry? Judging from your past posts, it is evident that you enjoy paintball, and that you would like to travel some more after your call-out in Germany. You also stated that you shot well on the ranges, and that you were thinking about staying even after your schooling so why not? 
You get the opportunity to fire bigger and better weapons ( I love the C-6 myself),and do things that the combat support trades don‘t do. I did several support exercises with various milita units, and although it‘s hard work, there was a lot of good thigs that I got to do.
  :cam:


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## Deleted member 585 (12 Jun 2003)

Windwolf, I hear you.

Here‘s to espirit de corps.


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## WINDWOLF (12 Jun 2003)

Riggah,that,s a he11 of an idea for Lui.
Lui,if you are as good as you say in paintball,
then grunt may be just the ticket for you.
May bring back the pride you felt when you
first started.

Think about it.


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## Redneck052 (12 Jun 2003)

Riggah and Windwolf,

There are several reasons that LUI would not enlist in the Infantry:

1.  It takes pride, and they enforce honour.

2.  It takes an unselfish trust

3.  It takes respect

4.  There is no hidding...anywhere

and must importantly... 5.  It takes work


But then again, he‘ll have use for a gillie suit.


Pro Patria!


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## WINDWOLF (12 Jun 2003)

That is a fact Redneck except for the suit.
But these will be taught or learned as the
training progressessssss.If not,then it will
be enforced by the group.

Failure is sometimes the best way to learn.
Being the recipant of a blanket party will
diffenatly change your view.


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## Fader (13 Jun 2003)

That‘s funny Windwolf, since blanket party‘s have sorta phased out since you‘re time.  These days, I think if anyone were to pull a blanket party on course, some pretty bad things would happen.  I‘m not sure, but I‘d imagine the MP‘s would get envolved, there‘d be a summary trial for the instructors/guys envolved, and the guy recieving the blanket party would probably file a massive law suit against the CF and probably win (interesting...but unfortunatly, I‘m not too sure if that were the case).  I remember on my basic, one guy kicked this little idiot right in the back for saying "Guys, we shouldn‘t drink alcohol when they let us out on our weekend, it‘s bad." and he spent his entire weekend on the parade square doing extra drill practice and had to write a 2000 word essay of apology to the guy.  
Windwolf, you obviously wern‘t around when they implemented SHARP training that every soldier these days knows and loves.  It‘s even unethical and unpracticed for instructors to hit students.  A friend of mine immigrated from Hong Kong, and was a HK Police Officer before coming here.  On his basic, he was ASKING the instructors to hit him, ASKING!  Of course they didn‘t.

I guess you guys didn‘t read my posts, since I stated I failed on the range and I‘m a terrible shot.  I called up the girl, and her groupings were 5 cm, not 5mm; mine was thus 80cm (i remember the figures 5 and 80, just not the units).  For months after, she got the title of "Ultimate Killer" for our squadron.

Anywho, I wouldn‘t mind being in the combat arms; I‘ve seen some of the guys (and I mean guys with the same amount of time in as me) who are lineman, infantry, engineer, or arty.  I know I‘m a just as fit as alot of them, and I know I work just as hard as they do at my job.  Thing is, all that combat arms stuff isn‘t very appealing to me now that I‘ve seen the wonders of being a SigOp, I think a lot of SigOps feel the same way.  We have the sweetest trade in the army.  One unofficial statistic I‘ve heard is that within trades like the infantry, if a guy goes 5 years and is in perfect health, he is very, very lucky, since there are so many unavoidable permenant injuries like rolled ankles and lower back injuries associated with going into the field or normal training.  I know the only real threat I have to worry about in the field or normal training is electrocuting myself, falling of an LS, or getting cancer from the RF radiation I‘m exposed to for hours at a time.

As for the ghilie suit, I get little to no admiration from my fellow soldiers for having made it.  It took a crazy long time to make it, on the 45 minutes bus ride to the University every morning, I‘d just sit there sewing burlap to it much to the dismay of those sitting around me.  I started it up because another Sigop told me he had seen an infanteer make one in a similiar fashion, and I thought it would be cool to try it myself.  I wonder, though, who here has one as well?  Thus leading to my original question, how do you maintain it?

As for my use for it, bushball paintball players think it‘s the most interesting thing they‘ve ever seen (unlike most people in the army).  I have more of a need for it in the bush playing paintball, because the other wise Republican Guard Green I‘d be wearing doesn‘t blend in half as well as the MARPAT or CADPAT that all the other guys have; and if I‘m going to try and steal the flag from the opposing teams base, or sneak up behind a group of them defending a bunker against an advancing party on my team, I need to blend in.

Whew, it‘s been a long day...


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## Bringer (13 Jun 2003)

> any one of my mates at the unit will probably say something like "Yeah, we probably won‘t be anywhere near the firefight when it happens."


Support units in Iraq suffered a large number of casualties. Asymmetric warfare pretty much guarantees that everyone had better have their infantry basics down or face the consequences. If you‘re in the Army then you‘d better be ready to fight regardless of your occupation. 

I don‘t think the Fedeyeen would stop shooting if you told them you were SigOps instead of Infantry.


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## WINDWOLF (13 Jun 2003)

Fortunatly Lui i was out before Sharp,s was
in use. It,s too bad that the old ways have gone
down the road.Being smacked on the back with a pace stick for sticking your a$$ in the air
during the combat crawl made sure you did not do that again.Being yelled at did little for me
other than teach me to tune them out.

And as for blanket party,s i was the recipeant
of two. One in Cornwallis & once @ battle school.
Improved my attitude geomatricaly.It may not
be pretty,but it works. I never held a 
grudge against the guys for it,i deserved it.
Sometimes the group has to solve a problem
before it comes to the attention of higher.

From what you say Lui, the training is semi?
touchy feely in the reserves.Combat arms were 
trained to be tought then, are they now?
Let me know. This is not a critisim.


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## combat_medic (13 Jun 2003)

Windwolf: I can‘t say about the comms reserve, but training is starting to take a backswing to the old days. It had degraded to the point where soldiers could question their orders with no reprecussions, but that‘s starting to come to an end.

No, you still can‘t physically strike a troop, and you can‘t use insults that are racially or sexually derrogative (split @ss etc.) but yelling at troops or insulting them to a certain extent is still permitted.

Now the main difference (other than SHARP) between then and now, is now there is more material covered in terms of basic soldiering skills, but things like PT have slackened off somewhat. Soldiers are starting to become smarter, but they‘re also less obedient. It‘s a product of the world we live in, and unfortunately you can‘t have both; a soldier who is completely aware of his rights and responsibilities, but allows himself to be walked on continuously. 

On my basic (about 4 years ago) we were about to give a girl a blanket party, but the staff found out and put a stop to it. The staff did, however, make it increasingly difficult for the girl in question, but they didn‘t want things conducted "behind closed doors". There‘s nothing wrong with discipline, but now they want it to be appropriate and fair.

Example: If you suck at weapons handling, the staff will make you spend a couple hours in the evening doing remedial weapons training by yourself, rather than making you pump off a million pushups. That way there‘s punishment, and it solves the problem.


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## Fader (13 Jun 2003)

From what I‘ve gathered, basic training was nothing more than an introduction to how to operate in a military.  As the name suggests; it taught me the very basics, many of which I still do apply (my ghilie suit for example, I created using the principles I learnt in my cam and concealment part of my LET).  While it wasn‘t anything like I expected, (I expected it to be like the first 45 minutes of Full Metal Jacket) it was still difficult enough to instill a sense of pride towards the military.
I think the attitude of a soldier graduating from basic today differs a lot more than the attitude of a soldier that graduated in your time Windwolf; as for further trades courses, I‘m not too sure if it‘s trade specific, but I think the same trend occurs.
Ironically enough, I think one thing that accounts for this, is though basic military fundamentals are still present (rank structure, chain of command, division of work, etc.) these days, we seem to be more oriented around thinking for ourselves as subordinates, rather than just  doing exactly what someone of higher rank tells us.  The term "Thinking man‘s army" has come up alot in my interactions with people as it relates to the Canadian military.  I had a theory that the CF being in a neglected a state as it is, our soldiers HAVE to stay sharp mentally on an individual basis in order to be able to do thier jobs effectivly.
I believe that a great deal of grit and physical strength have been sacrificed as a desireable trait for soldiers, and in it‘s place seems to be logic and mental aptitude, especially within the reserves.  I think that comes as no surprise, since a great deal of new recruits are very well educated (as is reflected in our population of people within that age group).  I also believe that that emphasis accounts alot for our differant attitudes: it‘s easier to become more emotionally attatched during times of intense stress, and it‘s alot easier to inflict physical stress on someone than it is mental.  That‘s why I think alot of the guys that are combatants and do or have lead "the hard life" within the military are especially more loyal than those of us who have lived in the era of the effective inddivdual.
You‘re attatchment to the old ways is understandable, I‘m sure it has it‘s advantages.  I‘m also sure the old system worked for the time it was implemented, but nothing works forever, which is why things change.
As for the Iraq and Asymmetric warfare, that only applies on a tactical level.  If there were a war somewhere, I don‘t think I‘d have too much to worry about the Fedeyeen shooting at me if I were using an INMARSAT or LCT from somewhere here in Canada, keeping comms with someone in Europe, keeping comms with someone in Iraq.  When I was gunho, I was all about the "TacRad go out in the field and paint your face green;" but now that we‘re going more StratRad, I‘m more about the "Sitting in the office on an HF radio, with a pizza and flat of pop; keeping in comms with someone in the field."


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## Thaedes (13 Jun 2003)

While I agree the military is certainly changing pace, from a previously more ridgid and controlled aspect to a more relaxed and contemplative position.  I believe that to sacrifice much of the hardliner way is a really bad idea.  Otherwise, infantry just cannot and will not be as effective.  

The only possible solutions are that of a really intense MOC for infantry, or a seperate Basic for those applying to infantry.  The fact is, if your a fat a$s in infantry, your going to be a problem for your company.  If you spend all your time thinking, and not acting on the orders given to you by men who are trained to be competant (admittedly they aren‘t always), then your gonna be a storage facility for incomming enemy ammunition.  And to a certain degree, I imagine this would apply to all other MOC‘s.

Thats just my $0.02 worth though.


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## riggah052 (13 Jun 2003)

In case nobody told you, no matter what trade you are in the forces, you are going to see something. The number one ground target for enemy forces to liquidate is an RRB site, Know what that is? Another target that is quick to be neutralised in a war fighting enviornment is HQ & sigs, hey hey can you see a picture developing here? You should.    One of the main trg activities for the russian spetznas forces was strictly taking  out various rad dets.
While we‘re on the topic of the second gulf war, remember the saga of the maintainence coy. that got captured? "we‘re only here to fix broken trucks, not to fight" seems that twelve got captured and only one lived to tell the tale, and even there, only barely. 
Don‘t be ignorant LUI,it doesn‘t suit you and  you seem like a smart guy  :warstory:  
By the way, even though your unit is playing more with SATCOM, it doesn‘t necessarily mean that it‘s what you‘d see in a war.


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## riggah052 (13 Jun 2003)

Sorry, forgot to ask in my last post, did you answer my question in my last post? In all the rhetoric, I didn‘t find it. I don‘t care if guys you knew got injured, or whether you wear your combats to paintball. I just wanted a question answered, If you want some respect at least give some.
  :skull:


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## WINDWOLF (13 Jun 2003)

You have a good point there Lui. the guys in 
my platoon had ,i think, a average gr 10.
So we were not the brightest bunch around.
Being smacked was probably the only way to
get our attention & to instill disipline.

It,s sad to know that pt is taking a back
seat in the training regiment.I always
thought that physical training was the key
to good soldiering in the field.You could
have all the brains of god,but not be able
to make back to the rally point.

Combat_medic,it is now the single & not the 
group that is disiplined for shortcomings
in training?


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## combat_medic (13 Jun 2003)

Windwolf: I think it depends on the infraction. At the beginning of basic, if they‘re trying to ram home a certain point, or if several people make the same mistake, they‘ll certainly punish the whole group. However, if one person shows a lot of continuous difficulty with something, often they‘ll single out the individual.

For example: if the whole platoon can‘t march, or if there‘s a number of them who just don‘t get it, the whole platoon will be up late doing remedial drill. If one guy alone is repeatedly thick and doesn‘t get it, he‘ll be singled out and get taught on his own (usually in addition to getting an ‘initial warning‘ formerly known as a ‘verbal warning‘).


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## WINDWOLF (13 Jun 2003)

Ah,verbals,how well i know those.Use to start 
out with"Pte,you piece of sh!t,your other left"
& then go down hill from there.

    :warstory:


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## Deleted member 585 (13 Jun 2003)

So Thaedes, got your CD yet?

ROFL.

Rhetoric:  a post lacking the benefit of military indoctrination and despite this, attempts to expound military notions.  Mmm.  Tasty dogmatic rationale.

The saving grace?  It demonstrates a genuine interest.  I‘m sure that once you go through BMQ, bust your a$$, and  endure a few show-parades, it will all come together.  There‘s always a place for principled, outspoken individuals -- they usually become leaders.   :warstory:  

Here‘s to esprit de corps!

Cheers!


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## Thaedes (13 Jun 2003)

I like catching flak from people.  It helps the learning process.

So yeah, point out my errors if you like, I‘ll be more the happier to come around next time with a sharper edge.


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## Michael Dorosh (13 Jun 2003)

But Windwolf, PT for reservists is largely a waste of time.  There is no benefit to having group PT once a week, if the troops are not going to do anything else on their own time.  I am talking about during the training year.  I would imagine most of those in combat trades have the initiative to do their own PT every day.

I personally like SHARP and LDA; if it has gone "too far" in some units, that‘s too bad.  From my experience, all the bad has been done away with, with just enough discipline to make things stick.  We still have charge parades, and we still have crusty NCOs who yell at people when they deserve it.

All the NCOs I‘ve ever respected most never had to yell, anyway; they had the respect of the troops through their job knowledge, charisma, and leadership ability.  If you have to yell, you‘re not a very good leader; or conversely, you have really piss poor troops and the yelling probably won‘t help either of those much.

There are one or two badapples that probably deserve (or would have in the "good old days") a good beating, but one of our CSMs once reminded us that once a guy is in your regiment, he‘s part of the family.  You can try and have him tossed out - where he becomes someone else‘s responsibility - or you can do your ****dest to turn him into a Guardsman, a Gunner, a Highlander, a Patricia, a Royal Canadian, a Van Doo, a Jimmy, a Rifleman, a Craftsman, or a whatever your battery, squadron, company happens to refer to its soldiers as.  The latter is always the hard way, but I always thought Canadian soldiers did things the hard way out of habit?


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## McInnes (14 Jun 2003)

lol, after reading all of this i have one question that is nagging me..what is a blanket party exactly?

And for the reserves, I think that each person should be doing training by themselves. Every morning up at 6 and running for an hour.   :crybaby:


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## rolandstrong (14 Jun 2003)

One thing is for certain, Lui can get a conversation going. His tie dye thing led to three pages. Impressive.


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## sgtdixon (14 Jun 2003)

As my understanding a blanket party is a method of implementing an idea into a Numptees head with brute force. Eg; being restrained with fire blankets while some members of the unit with either locks in socks or soap in socks lay a whuppin on you. Thous SHARP may prevent this, CHAP in the cadets says it does but i witnessed at least 4 this summer. Its a sure fire way to tune a herbie into the program. Or you can just take the sicker out back of the shacks and "tune him in"


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## inferno (14 Jun 2003)

Heh, when I was in sea cadets we were doing some training on YAGs. Was pretty fun. But one kid wouldn‘t stop sitting on the deck during watch and falling asleep.

Later that night 12 of us gave him a whoopin like he‘d never seen before.

The CO caught wind of it and gave us **** ... with a smile.

EDIT: Yes, this was a blanket party with socks, some soap only... didn‘t want to hurt him or anything badly.

Personally I think physical obediance is NESSICARY training in SOME cases. To kick someone into shape, to have him listen and understand.
An empathetic and understanding officer is something I never want to see for a couple of reasons.

It softens his group
Everyone becomes attached and relies on the officer
They can not break loose and survive on their own because they are used to someone who let‘s em off easy.

Know what I mean?


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## Fader (15 Jun 2003)

****... waaaay to much to read since I was last here, lol


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## WINDWOLF (16 Jun 2003)

I don,t know about that Michael,How do you get
a group to jell or become combat ready?
Pt was done every morning & this helped to
keep the boys in top shape as well as work
in team mode.Even on weekends we worked out.

Must be a different training regiment altogether
now that we have smarter soldiers.

As for the old NCO,s,yea,i will have to agree
there. They led by talent not by intimidation.


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## Pte Lickers (17 Jun 2003)

He he he he   I have  a good warning story.

Im not sure how it works but depending on thne infraction you could be chitted or be given counselling to correct your problem.  After counselling comes verbal warning.

So heres the scoop webbing inspection is tommorow morning but im thinking "WTF the warrant cant‘t go through all of our webbings, I mean, come on we have breakast in an hour after inspection begins and were 4 section, the last to be inspected.  Im just gonna polish my boots get my uniform ready scrub other crap and rack out."

Needles to say my carefull strategrem didnt work, in fact it failed miserably.  We were three mod tents down from the first section when we heard the yelling start.  Then more yelling and crashes as kit flew out the door.  There would be a yelling spree then a murmur from the victim then more yelling.  I was actually freaked since I was a scrawny runt compared this extermelly large warrant who used me as a bitch for unarmed combat.  My brain knew he couldnt touch me but my body was ready to sprint like a bitch( I hope he isnt reading this....) Then he flkew through the door yelling and screaming asbout how the other tents were **** and we better imporve his mood. Low and behold ignored everything but my webbing completly.

He grabbed ,my butt pack ripped it open and produced a dirty bush cap not cleaned since BIQ several months before.  He yelled at me for a time then stormed out.  I received notification from him later that that was my counselling..... 
I usally associate counselling with a smilin gentle person talking you through your mistake.  Boy was I wrong, counselling for me is know asscoiated with large dangerously mad warrant officers using french and english explisitives to take away your weekend and curse your skills as a solider.


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