# Police Foundations to Military Police to Criminology?



## cassinova99 (10 Jun 2013)

Hello everyone, I am new here and I am unsure how the Canadian Forces work but here is what I had in mind for my future.

I am 21 and after 2 years in University studying a science/engineering double major I want a change. I want to enroll into Police Foundations (2 year College program) then join the Military Police while attaining a degree in Criminology at a University, and then perhaps work as a detective for CF or at the civilian level.

Do you think this is possible, and is this a good route? I am unsure how it will work out.

Thank you for your help in advance. I will give replies to your questions if you have any, and/or I may add some details to my description later on.


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## JorgSlice (10 Jun 2013)

Criminology isn't really applicable to policing. It's more for Defence Lawyers, Crime Analysts and those annoying pests from PIVOT Legal Society. Look more towards actual Criminal Justice, or something that really relates to policing the most: Social Work.


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## JesseWZ (10 Jun 2013)

PrairieThunder said:
			
		

> Criminology isn't really applicable to policing. It's more for Defence Lawyers, Crime Analysts and those annoying pests from PIVOT Legal Society. Look more towards actual Criminal Justice, or something that really relates to policing the most: Social Work.



Criminology isnt really for defense lawyers either. It's a sub-discipline of sociology. Law would be for lawyers... 

I have a criminology degree and it worked out fine for me. Yes, some of the use of force/criminal code/hands on policing skills I had to learn on the MP course vice in a civilian program, but it didn't cause me much trouble. 

To the Original Poster: 

The CF does not have detectives. Most large MP regiments/units/squadrons have a GIS (general investigation) section that deals with more serious or time consuming files a patrol section has not the resources/time/training to handle. Continuing upwards  in the realm of seriousness, the NIS (National Investigation Service) is made up of MPs and is a regional unit that will send investigators to the incidents to conduct the detective work. 

We do not employ civilians as detectives within the MP branch. We contract out or hire certain specialist services, however they have no more authority to arrest or detain an individual under section 156 of the National Defense Act, or the Criminal Code than you do currently. 

Please PM me with more questions if you have any, but my advice at this point is start reading. Visit a recruiter, watch the MP videos on the recruiting website. 
 You seem to have a lot to learn about the military in general. Start with that.


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## Delaney1986 (10 Jun 2013)

PrairieThunder said:
			
		

> Criminology isn't really applicable to policing. It's more for Defence Lawyers, Crime Analysts and those annoying pests from PIVOT Legal Society. Look more towards actual Criminal Justice, or something that really relates to policing the most: Social Work.



_College_ Criminology courses are actually quite broad. I can see how maybe a University Criminology course may differ, but as far my College program it was plenty relevant to Policing:
Abnormal Psychology
Aboriginal Studies
Behaviour Modification
Corrections in Criminal Justice
Current Issues in Criminology
Human Development/Human Sexuality
Interviewing Skills
Basic Counselling Skills
Political Science
Sociology
Psychology
Personal Fitness
Self Defense
Non-Violent Crisis Intervention/Suicide Intervention Skills Training
Risk Assessment and Case Management
Security, Movement and Safety
and many many more...

Just pointing out that at least at my College we had a number of parallels to what they would teach you in Social Work...just sayin'


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## JesseWZ (10 Jun 2013)

I think PT was commenting somewhat tongue in cheek about the social work aspect of our  jobs. 

There need not be a bun-fight about courses. 

_university_ criminology courses of which I am a graduate are  sociology focused.

Apparently _college_ criminology courses have a wider focus.

Both would be acceptable to be an MP. Keep in mind, we don't hire you, send you to boot camp and then give you your red hat, badge and gun with instructions to save the world. You will get plenty of time and opportunity in your 6+ months at CFMPA to learn policing skills. You will also not be alone.


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## JorgSlice (10 Jun 2013)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> I think PT was commenting somewhat tongue in cheek about the social work aspect of our  jobs.
> 
> There need not be a bun-fight about courses.
> 
> ...



Opinions will vary, but I found that criminology wasn't fulfilling in the sense that it related directly to working the beat but then again I was going to an awful university before I switched programmes. If you enjoy it, all the power to you.

I'll stop the derail now.


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## Delaney1986 (10 Jun 2013)

No "bun-fighting" going on here! I get a lot of crap from people who just don't understand the potential broadness of some Criminology programs. Just some friendly passing of info!  

To the OP:

Why do you feel you need two post secondary programs to do investigative work? Is your aim to be an NCM or an Officer? I'm not even close to being an expert in the field - just an applicant - but I am curious about your plan.

Might be relevant or not but keep in mind that RCMP doesn't require any post secondary education and eventually they may have opportunities for becoming a trained investigator as well.


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## BeyondTheNow (11 Jun 2013)

Delaney1986 said:
			
		

> ...Might be relevant or not but keep in mind that RCMP doesn't require any post secondary education and eventually they may have opportunities for becoming a trained investigator as well...



Yes, you are correct that _officially_ RCMP applicants do not require a post-secondary education, but the percentage of applicants who possess it is extremely high. It's my understanding that without extensive related experience that would/could overshadow the applicant only possessing the minimum educational requirement, applicants have more of an advantage with post-secondary under their belt--especially if related to the job. That is fairly standard across the board, at least in Ontario--OPP, as well as regional forces have no formal requirement of a post-secondary education.  However, it's definitely an asset.

(On a side note, I think it's interesting that high-school/its equivalent is a mandatory requirement for practically _all_ police services.  [Excluding MP] But AFAIK, OPP is the only civilian service with an exception. _"If you were not successful in achieving a high school diploma or a G.E.D., but have fully completed a 2 or 3 year community college program or acquired a university degree you will be considered as having obtained equivalency. If you have received specialized training or taken other post-secondary courses, you will be required to provide proof of equivalency."_. http://www.opp.ca/ecms/index.php?id=94

I personally think their policy makes complete sense.  In this day and age, there are several reasons why some people do not complete high-school.  So someone gets their life together and pursues further education, earns a Masters in whatever, passes their ATS, gets their OACP certificate, but nope. Cannot become a police officer because they didn't earn their high-school. This was the case with one of my profs...just a little puzzling IMHO.)


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## Delaney1986 (12 Jun 2013)

BeyondTheNow said:
			
		

> Yes, you are correct that _officially_ RCMP applicants do not require a post-secondary education, but the percentage of applicants who possess it is extremely high. It's my understanding that without extensive related experience that would/could overshadow the applicant only possessing the minimum educational requirement, applicants have more of an advantage with post-secondary under their belt--especially if related to the job. That is fairly standard across the board, at least in Ontario--OPP, as well as regional forces have no formal requirement of a post-secondary education.  However, it's definitely an asset.



I realize that, lol. However, I know a number of people who have gotten into the RCMP without any post-secondary or "relevant" experience. If anything they did have _life experience_ which was indicated to me during my own application process as being invaluable. Having post-secondary will never hurt your application - I assumed that was old hat - but if you can display potential for policing on their aptitude test and in your interview, and are honest, you essentially have just as good of a chance. Having done the testing myself I can attest that the questions asked where easier from drawing on my own life experience and maturity in comparison to knowledge I learned while in University. 

I guess I just mean that there are plenty of opportunities during their application process to show your strengths and aptitude for policing without having post-secondary, so for anyone applying not to necessarily get discouraged because of an apparent lessened degree of competitiveness.

I hope the OP finds the answers they are looking for and the guidance they need!   Good Luck in whatever you decide.


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## BeyondTheNow (12 Jun 2013)

Delaney1986 said:
			
		

> I realize that, lol. However, I know a number of people who have gotten into the RCMP without any post-secondary or "relevant" experience. If anything they did have _life experience_ which was indicated to me during my own application process as being invaluable. Having post-secondary will never hurt your application - I assumed that was old hat - but if you can display potential for policing on their aptitude test and in your interview, and are honest, you essentially have just as good of a chance. Having done the testing myself I can attest that the questions asked where easier from drawing on my own life experience and maturity in comparison to knowledge I learned while in University.
> 
> I guess I just mean that there are plenty of opportunities during their application process to show your strengths and aptitude for policing without having post-secondary, so for anyone applying not to necessarily get discouraged because of an apparent lessened degree of competitiveness.



Yes, absolutely great points. I was thinking more along the lines of in case a younger individual with no life experience reads the post and thinks RCMP/policing is easy to obtain as a career with having only the minimum educational requirements, since it's often essential to show proof of continued education during the interview process. No, this doesn't necessarily mean a formal degree or diploma, but courses, certificates, etc.


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## cassinova99 (13 Jun 2013)

Delaney1986 said:
			
		

> To the OP:
> 
> Why do you feel you need two post secondary programs to do investigative work? Is your aim to be an NCM or an Officer? I'm not even close to being an expert in the field - just an applicant - but I am curious about your plan.
> 
> Might be relevant or not but keep in mind that RCMP doesn't require any post secondary education and eventually they may have opportunities for becoming a trained investigator as well.



The Police Foundations (2 years) is offered Full-Time online. I figured that working while studying Full-Time online will be more beneficial, compared to working and studying Ful-Time in class. Then after 2 years I can transfer to University and study 2 years to attain a BAsc in criminology.

//Thank you for everyone's posts. Along with the past threads pertaining to MPs, RCMPs, etc.., your posts and theirs have been helpful. I will still be here answer your questions if you have any about my route.


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## Delaney1986 (14 Jun 2013)

I'm still a bit fuzzy about if you are planning for NCM or Officer, seeing as how you appear to be pursuing routes towards both? I'm going to assume you want Officer maybe if you are planning on continuing to get a Bsc though. I don't know enough about entry plans and the system to advise you concretely either way but I will say double check everything before you get yourself into a crap ton of debt!

By that I mean, *make sure that the CF recognizes these courses* that you are planning to take. Make sure you don't need a 4-year University Degree and that you can, infact substitute 2 years with a College Program. Make sure that the University will accept all of your courses from the College to give you credits. Most Universities around here won't accept very many College level credits against a Degree. I would definately speak with the recruiters if your plan is at all to get the CF to subsidize any of this. There are entry plans for MP Officer (VERY competitive, few and far between) but not for MP NCM - so your College is on your own dime. I know that you are probably just beginning to think this over and develop your plan but just make sure you check everything! As mentioned before speak with a recruiter!! I ended up with over $60 000 of student loan debt because I messed up my plan and got bad information, lol. I would advise not following in those foot steps... ;D

Good Luck with everything!


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## JesseWZ (14 Jun 2013)

Delaney1986 said:
			
		

> I'm still a bit fuzzy about if you are planning for NCM or Officer, seeing as how you appear to be pursuing routes towards both? I'm going to assume you want Officer maybe if you are planning on continuing to get a Bsc though. I don't know enough about entry plans and the system to advise you concretely either way but I will say double check everything before you get yourself into a crap ton of debt!



Just because he is thinking about doing a degree, does not mean he intends to go officer. I am a Corporal who is partly finished a masters degree.


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## JesseWZ (14 Jun 2013)

I am going to give everyone a quick heads up in this thread...

Taking advice about recruiting standards for a trade from someone who is not in the CF is not wise. If you are giving advice about requirements, what MP life is like, etc, and you are *not* an MP, you are firing outside of your arcs and will likely be reigned in.

JesseWZ, Milnet.ca Mentor and serving MP.


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## DAA (14 Jun 2013)

cassinova99 said:
			
		

> Hello everyone, I am new here and I am unsure how the Canadian Forces work but here is what I had in mind for my future.
> 
> I am 21 and after 2 years in University studying a science/engineering double major I want a change. I want to enroll into Police Foundations (2 year College program) then join the Military Police while attaining a degree in Criminology at a University, and then perhaps work as a detective for CF or at the civilian level.
> 
> ...



Just make sure that the Police Foundations/Law and Security, etc, etc, etc......"course" and most importantly, the "academic institution" that you plan on enrolling in is "recognized" by the CF.  An undergrad degree in Criminology is acceptable for MPO (Officer) and MP (NCM MP) but there are other degrees which can also work for MP along with other "caveates" which accompany this, such as "work experience" in the field of security.

Choose wisely........


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## Delaney1986 (14 Jun 2013)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> Just because he is thinking about doing a degree, does not mean he intends to go officer. I am a Corporal who is partly finished a masters degree.



Yeah...I know...thought that would be pretty clear from my own profile stating that I have a Degree and a College Diploma but am pursuing an NCM trade...


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## Delaney1986 (14 Jun 2013)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> I am going to give everyone a quick heads up in this thread...
> 
> Taking advice about recruiting standards for a trade from someone who is not in the CF is not wise. If you are giving advice about requirements, what MP life is like, etc, and you are *not* an MP, you are firing outside of your arcs and will likely be reigned in.
> 
> JesseWZ, Milnet.ca Mentor and serving MP.



If I am one of those people to whom you are referring, please help me correct my own misunderstandings. I am offering my own experiences and knowledge but I have *NEVER* professed to be an expert/recruiter/CF Member/MP. I thought advising to speak with recruiters and double or triple checking everything was pretty sound advice coming from a like minded individual whose own lack of knowledge and experience has caused me some crappiness in this process. 

Perhaps as you stated, being a Mentor, you could offer some more sound advice? Again, please let me know if anything I suggested was incorrect, definately not my intention. Generally I don't try to offer too much advice because of this sort of blowback. I am fully aware of my limitations and apologize if I have passed on bad information.


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## JesseWZ (14 Jun 2013)

It was not directed at any one person in particular. The tendency in the recruiting forum (especially in "specialist areas") tends to be threads where the blind lead the blind into an impact area. It was a forestalling of future events. No names, no pack-drill.


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