# Ship's Divers



## 30 for 30 (17 Jun 2004)

Anyone know the average composition of a ship's dive team? 

Is it a full-time role on a ship?

Can officers serve on/lead ship dive teams?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (17 Jun 2004)

You will find ships with between 6-10 members.

Nope only for certain evolutions like Rescue Stations, Boarding Ops and a few others.

Yup..usually a S/LT or a LT(N) commands the team.


----------



## childs56 (18 Jun 2004)

hey i guys i think this question may be boardering on opsec. i know you can get the info some where else but telling people the size of specialized teams might best be left alone. some people here might say ya right but just remember loose lips shink ships.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (18 Jun 2004)

Any question might border on OPSEc dude, if you look hard enough...if you tell me how I will address it however I have been in this business long enough to know what I can share and what I cannot share and how to be vague when needed.


----------



## Slim (18 Jun 2004)

CTD said:
			
		

> hey i guys i think this question may be boardering on opsec. i know you can get the info some where else but telling people the size of specialized teams might best be left alone. some people here might say ya right but just remember loose lips shink ships.



Well...You could be right, but I would say that everyone knows how bigthe infantry and armoured are so why not the ships as well...?


----------



## MP 811 (19 Jun 2004)

we cant sink any of our ships, they've all been tied up for so long, they've fused to the jetties!..................LOL just kidding!


----------



## NavyGunner (28 Dec 2004)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Yup..usually a S/LT or a LT(N) commands the team.



No..... a Senior NCM usually commands the team...the subby is just there as a figurehead


----------



## Navalsnpr (29 Dec 2004)

Normally a PO or CPO tend to be the leaders when it comes to the ship's diving section. There normally is an Officer designated as the Diving Officer, but at the end of the day, I'd rather have a Diving Supervisor with decades of diving experience rather than an Officer with only a couple of years of Diving experience.

If I were to go overboard in the North Atlantic, I'd rather have experience working to get me out rather than rank. It gets darn cold in these waters in 5 minutes!!


----------



## Slim (29 Dec 2004)

> If I were to go overboard in the North Atlantic, I'd rather have experience working to get me out rather than rank. It gets darn cold in these waters in 5 minutes!!



My first dive was in the bay of Fundy, March 01 1995 at 0600 hours...dark, cold, wet (of course-Duhh!) and just generally miserable...Believe me when I say that I and everyone else on the course were "all ears" for the old hands who had done this millions of times and knew their business inside out!

Hats off to all divers who must swim in the N Atlantic...I've been there and it generally sucks! And I have yet to dive in a body of water where I can see more than 12 feet!

Slim
(Shuddering at the memory)


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (29 Dec 2004)

NavyGunner said:
			
		

> No..... a Senior NCM usually commands the team...the subby is just there as a figurehead



My_ point _ was that they still have a clear cut chain of command and still answer to an officer.


----------



## Navalsnpr (29 Dec 2004)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> My_ point _ was that they still have a clear cut chain of command and still answer to an officer.



Ex-Dragoon, this is true but there will be times that there may not be an qualified Officer onboard with the Diver's Supervisors course; and therefore the Snr NCM who has the Diver's Supervisors course will fill the position of Diving Officer.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (29 Dec 2004)

Never ran into that as of yet.


----------



## big_johnson1 (10 Aug 2005)

Just hoping someone out there can fill me in on the ship's diver course held in Esquimalt. I've heard a lot of heresay but I can't seem to get any straight answers out of people. 

1. How long is the course? I've been told 6 weeks.

2. I've heard that it's pretty physically intensive, but couldn't get clarification on what that means. How much running and how far (gives me something to train for).

3. How often are courses run?

4. Any other pertinent info on the course would be appreciated (ie would PADI certification help, etc)

Thanks!


----------



## Springroll (10 Aug 2005)

Feral said:
			
		

> Just hoping someone out there can fill me in on the ship's diver course held in Esquimalt. I've heard a lot of heresay but I can't seem to get any straight answers out of people.
> 
> 1. How long is the course? I've been told 6 weeks.
> 
> ...



If you can get a hold of a guy out there by the name of A*** P****** he would be able to answer your questions easier since he took it a few years ago. I asked my husband and he doesn't remember. I do recall hearing that it is physically very demanding and mentally the same. A PADI cert will not help, sorry to say. I was told its like comparing apples to oranges.

Good luck    

Hope this helps, even just a little bit





MOd Edit
Not approriate to use someones name in a pulic post. Specialy a service member (OPSEC/PERSEC)
This was brought to the mods attention by a complaint via report post button
Slim, STAFF


----------



## Monsoon (10 Aug 2005)

Springroll said:
			
		

> If you can get a hold of a guy out there by the name of A*** P****** he would be able to answer your questions easier since he took it a few years ago. I asked my husband and he doesn't remember. I do recall hearing that it is physically very demanding and mentally the same. A PADI cert will not help, sorry to say. I was told its like comparing apples to oranges.


Possibly you're thinking of the Clearance Diver course - very, very tough; very mentally demanding.  The Ship's Team Diver course is physically demanding, but it doesn't call for much more than being in good cardiovascular shape and being comfortable in the water.  At its worst, it will be mentally demanding in the way that basic training was.  Any prior experience with swimming is an asset, of course.  As for course length, I believe six weeks is correct.  I think the courses are run no more than twice a year.


----------



## Springroll (10 Aug 2005)

MOd Edit
Not approriate to use someones name in a pulic post. Specialy a service member (OPSEC/PERSEC)
This was brought to the mods attention by a complaint via report post button
Slim, STAFF


Thank you Slim..
I forgot, and am obviosuly not able to go back and edit it myself.
Thanks again.


----------



## kj_gully (12 Aug 2005)

Hi, here's the straight goods, PM me for more info if required/wanted:

6 weeks long.

physically tougher than most Navy courses, by a long shot. To stand a reasonable chance of succeeding, you should be able to run 1.5 miles in under 10 min, do at least 30 pushups (in a row, and by the end of course you will be able to do much more) 30 situps (same goes) chinups.... seem to be falling out of favour, but a solid 8 will definitely help. Your swim test is 6 lengths of the pool any stroke, but then on course you "surface swim" approx 1 km/ day with fins and wetsuit during PT. During course, you will conduct PT every morning, and will progress to running 8-10 km , 50+ pushups, 50+ situps, 8ish chinups,1.5 miles <10 min and the swim in under (often well under) 20 minutes. It is amazing to see how far a person can progress in a relatively short period of time when given the proper motivation, ie the "standby">

courses are run approx 4 times a year, depending on Naval requirement.

IMHO, PADI cert is an asset, as it will at least provide some knowledge of subsea environment. Fear of the unknown fails a lot of candidates. The techniques are definitely different ie, your first dives on course are conducted with heavy lead boots and vest, with no buoyancy compensato. you "plod" along on the bottom, and ascend, descend by climbig on a weighted rope fastened at the surface.
Hope this helps


----------



## Navalsnpr (29 Aug 2005)

gravyboat said:
			
		

> I know the east coast serials are done in a  dry suit now with the AGA full face mask. I'm not sure about the west coast.



I believe the reason the east coast does all their training in dry suits and full face masks is due to some of the ccontainments found in the harbour.


----------



## NavyGuy2006 (28 Mar 2006)

I was curious how to be accepted into Ships Diver training if I am MARENGMECH. And how long should I be in posting before asking to be accepted.....


----------



## SweetNavyJustice (28 Mar 2006)

This is just my opinion, but I'd wait until you have all your drawings done, and you're fully swept up on your job before taking over extra duties.  From that side of things, I doubt that your dept would let you go until you had everything done.  

Once you are "settled in" to the ship look for the next message for a course and submit a memo through your division to seek their nomination to be loaded on the course.  

The course is a lot of work but an equal amount of fun (if not more fun).  It's not uncommon to see Ordinary Seaman and AB's on the course so time in won't be a factor for you, just getting trade qualified on the ship.

Again, this is just my opinion as I was with the Combat Dept. when I became a ships diver.  Perhaps the Stokers have a different scheme.


----------



## Navy_Blue (28 Mar 2006)

Never know if you have time between BMQ and your QL3 you might get the chance.  My room mate out west got luckey and did his Dive Course while he waited.  Its rare but an Ideal time to get it out of the way.  If not hold off till your MOC training is done, maybe even your tech course.  You have the next 25+ years man worry about the now.


----------



## M Feetham (31 Mar 2006)

The chances of you being loaded on a dive course while waiting  for you QL3 course are slim at best, however you never know what will happen if you ask. Once you get on your ship, youi probably won't get a chance at a dive course until at least your drawings are completed, there are a lot of drawing for any class of ship. Best bet, wait till your onboard and go talk to your PO1. Once you get a feel for how he regards you aspirations to become a bubble head, go talk to the ship's diving officer. Once he knows that you are interested he can assert a little pressure in the right direction when your packages are done. You still have to follow the chain of command as far as requesting the course but it will help. Don't try to work around your divisional system you will only f__k yourself in the end. The course itself is a blast with a lot of hard work, but it is awsome. Dry suit training , LMDE training and Mildly contaminated Water diving training. So good luck and remember No bubble no trouble.
Cheers Marc


----------



## NavyGuy2006 (31 Mar 2006)

I haven't really understood and I have tried to look for the answer but what are the QL steps......after basic its sea enviromental then the first MOC....but where does QL3 fall into place....is there a QL2 and QL1?


----------



## SweetNavyJustice (31 Mar 2006)

If I'm not mistaken the PRes has the QL1 and QL2 but I might be right out to lunch with that.  

As for the reg force:  

QL3 basic trades training
QL4 usually onboard qualification (in case of NESOP's there was an onboard QL4 exam, and now there is a seperate course before your 5's)
QL5 (also known in some trades as a QL5a), also the course required to make your Leading Seamans substantive (actually qualified)
QL6a required to make your PO2's substantive
QL6b required to make your PO1's substantive

And that's the end of your formal trades training.


----------



## Melbatoast (1 Apr 2006)

SweetNavyJustice said:
			
		

> If I'm not mistaken the PRes has the QL1 and QL2 but I might be right out to lunch with that.
> 
> As for the reg force:
> 
> ...



Oops, you missed QL5b.  It's a prerequisite for Master Seaman, in the sonar world at least.  I'm not even sure if you can be made an acting-lacking Master without your 5b, but there haven't been enough courses run through for it to be an issue yet, though.  And, being loaded on it is a matter of where you merit, which is a little better than the old system of just having your QL4 done and Fleet Exam written/passed.


----------



## youngboot (15 Jul 2006)

I wondering if anyone here is Diver for the Canadian Navy. I have some questions about the trade of the Divers do you have take the same training as combat diver? I'm guessing not but i could be wrong. But what do you need to become A Canadian Navy Diver and what it takes? As well i hear of Ship Diver and Clearance Diver what are the roles of each of them? i did some search on this site and google and got Little info I would like to talk Canadian Diver here if there is any here on this site. Also where is the Diving unit in Halifax can someone who not in the Canadian Force walk in and  visit the unit sit down and talk to a Diver about the trade. I'm thinking about becoming a Diver but who like to talk to one that has years of it behind of him or her. 

Thank You For your Time
Aaron


----------



## M Feetham (24 Jul 2006)

A lot of the questions that are being asked can be answered on the Fleet diving unit web sites. Go to the canadian forces web site then to the navy site and then find the fleet diving units, one on each coast. They should have most of the answers
Feet


----------



## eliminator (3 Aug 2006)

Ship's Team Diver PT Standards for express Test

ANNEX A -- PHYSICAL FITNESS STANDARD FOR CANADIAN FORCES DIVING PERSONNELThis annex prescribes the physical fitness levels that shall be maintained by
all CF divers. These levels are to be displayed during CF EXPRES Plan tests
and in-unit fitness inspections.
Table 1 -- Standards for Male Divers
                                AGE GROUPS

ITEM DETAIL                     17-19  20-29 30-39  40-49  50-59

1    Push-Ups                   35     30    25     21     18

2    Bent Knee Sit-Ups          44     40    34     29     25

3    Combined Hand Grip Strength101    105   106    103    96

4    Predicted Maximal          52.9   48.7  42.7   37.9   34.1
     Oxygen Consumption (ml/kg/min)

Table 2 -- Standards for Female Divers

                                AGE GROUPS

ITEM DETAIL                     17-19  20-29 30-39  40-49  50-59

1    Push-Ups                   21     23    22     18     15

2    Bent Knee Sit-Ups          35     31    24     20     14

3    Combined Hand Grip Strength61     60    60     59     55

4    Predicted Maximal          38.8   36.1  33.4   29.8   25.5
     Oxygen Consumption (ml/kg/min)

Note -- The above standard is only an interim one until a study of a diver's
true physical fitness requirements is made. Therefore, this interim standard
should not be accepted as the gold standard and diving personnel should
endeavour to attain a higher level of aerobic fitness.

I did my std course back in 04. We started off with about 11 candidates and finished with only 4. It was pretty intense, but it all depends on your staff an the physical fitness level of the course. They will Tailor the pt to your level so everyone is pushing 100%. IE, my friend and I were in very good shape, so we'd be constantly sprinting ahead of the main group and doing pushups till they caught up. An open water course did help. The first few days is when alot off ppl fail and it's due to their inability to relax underwater. I hear that my course was the last course where they duct taped everyones masks over.

BTW, anyone know much about the 5 day re-qual course. I'm loaded on one for this month, but not sure what to expect. I did the prepackage and got signed off from the doc, etc.


----------



## Rhibwolf (3 Aug 2006)

Aaron, if you still have further questions after the answers above, PM me.

As for the PT standards,  the little bit about it being interim has been there for a very long time.  It has been interim since at least 1999, when I did my first course, and probably even longer.  That said, I participated in the evaluations for the new Diver's PT Test, and I am glad that they are finally near completion.  I suspect that I may have done my last annual Divers EXPRES test, and will now be able to get exempt without worrying whether or not my inability to crush stones with my less-than-super-grip will cause me grief. The new test consists of a lot practical activities that bear a striking resemblance to what we as divers do. 
It is broken into 3 sections:
land based - lift tanks, move kit, walk up and down ladders with tanks on, pull on ropes with great weights attached
Pool based - tread water at neutral buoyancy with a 5 lb bean bag in your hands, swim several lengths dragging a load,
Pool based - underwater - complete a timed distance swim at about 4FSW (works out to 8 x 90 second laps)
Its not too hard, but you sure know you are doing a test. It is way better than the CF EXPRES test, which you will still have to do anyways, but only to CF standards req for your age.


----------



## navydiver (2 Dec 2006)

All concerned
I can answer most questions. Regarding team size - max is 12 pers per major combatant. KIN class do not have dive teams.  Not an OPSEC issue as this info is public domain and quite UNCLAS. For those with DWAN access go to the NDHQ/CMS web site and hunt for MARCORD 46-500 (believe it is posted under DGMPR/DMPOR). I have links to it on my CF DWAN web site at MARPAC -> J3 Operations -> J3 MAR 4 OP READ -> J3 MAR 4-3 Diving and Coastal Warfare (that's me). It spells out most of what you folks are asking? Also the Naval Diving Operational Concept of Employment (my baby when I was in Ottawa) is also posted there. Both FDU(P) and FDU(P) post their course dates a year in advance on their respective web sites - linkable from my DWAN site. 
Strength in Depth
Navydiver


----------



## navydiver (2 Dec 2006)

Of course I meant FDU(P) and FDU(A) in my last post - bent finger problems ;-)


----------



## JackD (10 Dec 2006)

Hi! I do apologise for breaking into this interesting exchange, but I thought the articles contained on the sideboard of this main article would be of interest to the diver community: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/07/opinion/07trumbull.html?th&emc=th The articles are on the raising and salvage of the sunken ships of Pearl Harbour during the war, and details the roles of ship's divers. These are pdf files of the original newspaper story which was not apporved for release at the time


----------

