# Sea Dragon Sea Scouts?



## CougarKing (1 Jul 2008)

I was just watching the Steveston parade for Canada Day and I saw all these cadets marching in the parade and they had a uniform similar to the Navy's own high school cadets or the Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps, IIRC. Yet they were marching in a formation different from the Sea Cadets earlier and had signs in both English and Mandarin that said "Sea Dragon Sea Scouts". However I never heard of them before and was wondering if they were connected to the other cadets or what?  ???


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## Michael OLeary (1 Jul 2008)

Just out of curiosity, did you even try Google?

"Sea Dragon Sea Scouts"


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## Jaydub (1 Jul 2008)

[quote author=CougarDaddy]I never heard of them before and was wondering if they were connected to the other cadets or what?  ???
[/quote]

It does not appear so.
http://www.seadragon-seascouts.com/

Although they reffer to their founder as a "Commodore".

Strange...


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## CougarKing (1 Jul 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, did you even try Google?
> 
> "Sea Dragon Sea Scouts"



I searched here first and found nothing. And just posted. I still would have posted this inquiry regardless of whether I had found it on google or not in the hopes of starting a discussion thread.


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## JSR OP (1 Jul 2008)

I was a Sea Scout as a kid in Long Sault Ontario.  That was many moons ago.  My son is now in Beavers, and I have talked to the leaders about my time in scouting.  From what I have been told, Sea Scouts under the official "Scouts Canada" does not exist any more.  However, there are still Sea Scout troops around.   I don't know exactly the relationship now...  I'll have to look into this more.  Anyone else have info this?


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## tabernac (4 Jul 2008)

I've interacted with the "Sea Dragons" before while as a scout, and they have a decent program revolving around sailing/ the CYA Learn to Sail programme. However, the leadership (as of 4 years ago) were rather snobbish and stuck up. A friend of mine, who was a Scout Leader (read: adult volunteer) with 6 Garry Oak, was looking to set up an affliation between the 2 units. Long story short, "Grand Fleet Admiral" Chan wouldn't let "his" boats be shared with another scouting unit, and was repulsed at the idea.


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## Blackadder1916 (4 Jul 2008)

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> I've interacted with the "Sea Dragons" before while as a scout, and they have a decent program revolving around sailing/ the CYA Learn to Sail programme. However, the leadership (as of 4 years ago) were rather snobbish and stuck up. A friend of mine, who was a Scout Leader (read: adult volunteer) with 6 Garry Oak, was looking to set up an affliation between the 2 units. Long story short, "Grand Fleet Admiral" Chan wouldn't let "his" boats be shared with another scouting unit, and was repulsed at the idea.



How about making the long story complete (if you know all the details) as you seem to be very ready to publically denigrate an individual based on second hand information that you may have received when you were 14 years old.   I am not familiar with the referenced scouting group or any of its leaders.  I have however been a scout leader (many years ago).  There are often inequities among scouting troops (or other youth groups) in the resources available to the individual groups.  A lot depends on the resourcefulness of the troop's leadership (or the parents of the scouts) in getting sponsorships, donations or permission to use privately owned property; sometimes the scouting leaders provide some amenities from their own pocket.  It is not unusual for caveats to be attached when resources are provided and consideration must be made for other factors including liability insurance, maintenance costs, and depreciation.  So your story (if taken at face value) tells me that a leader of one group tried to get something for free from the leader of another group who was more successful and leader one was told to pound salt and do his own work.  Sounds like an appropriate response.


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## Burrows (5 Jul 2008)

Then again, sometimes leader one just doesn't like to share.

In cases like these, I think the way information is carried back to the masses can be flawed.  However, this doesn't totally make the fact that human beings can look after themselves first and then tell the rest to bugger off.

Keep in mind that these are youth groups.  The very point of these groups is to help children interact and grow.  For an adult role model to just stand up and shut down another group of children for selfish cause is highly inappropriate in my opinion.

Just to put this out there - Anyone who decrees themself a Grand Admiral must have a complex of some sort.

That said,  blackadder has a valid point.


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## tabernac (19 Jul 2008)

Agreed, B1916 and Burrows, however Chan had let his boats be used by a (predominantely) Chinese, Mandarin speaking scout group from Richmond. Racial bias maybe?  :
Here's to hoping he's changed since then.


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## CougarKing (19 Jul 2008)

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Agreed, B1916 and Burrows, however Chan had let his boats be used by a (predominantely) Chinese, Mandarin speaking scout group from Richmond. Racial bias maybe?  :
> Here's to hoping he's changed since then.



Well at least the uniforms they used- at least from what I saw from that Steveston Canada Day parade- are not PLAN (mainland China) or ROCN (Taiwan) uniforms.


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## medaid (19 Jul 2008)

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Agreed, B1916 and Burrows, however Chan had let his boats be used by a (predominantely) Chinese, Mandarin speaking scout group from Richmond. Racial bias maybe?  :
> Here's to hoping he's changed since then.



Really? Racial bias? You're kidding right? Where are you drawing these inferences from? I'd love to know.


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## Blackadder1916 (19 Jul 2008)

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Agreed, B1916 and Burrows, however Chan had let his boats be used by a (predominantely) Chinese, Mandarin speaking scout group from Richmond. Racial bias maybe?  :
> Here's to hoping he's changed since then.



So now your insinuating that he may be a bigot, again based on the perception of a child who does not know the financial or ownership arrangements for some boats.  If you have first hand knowledge of the situation then so state it.  Were you involved in any negotiations with the referenced scout leader and any others including your "friend" or are you merely repeating the comments of your "friend", who may be disgruntled that he was unable to get use of the boats?  In the real world (including the military), a lot of things get done based on personal relationships (i.e. trust).  Perhaps there was a personal relationship between the leaders of the two (Chinese) groups, a relationship that did not extend to the leader of your group (your friend).  If your friend is the source of your negative views concerning the Sea Dragons leader, then I could see where a basis of mistrust could originate.  I wouldn't have much time for a fellow scout leader who thinks it appropriate to discuss such matters with the children he is entrusted to guide.


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## tabernac (19 Jul 2008)

Leader of an all Asian Sea Scout Troop, where the primary language is Madarin, lets another Scout Group (who just happen to also be primarily Mandarin Chinese) use the SD boats, but denies another Scout Group (who just happen to be primarily white, anglophones).

Group composition might have changed since the incident 6 years ago, but I doubt it.

Whatever happened to equality and equal treatment? My Scout Group had access to a facility with small boats, and we invited every Scout Group in the area with an interest in sailing to come with us on our sail weekends.


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## tabernac (19 Jul 2008)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> So now your insinuating that he may be a bigot, again based on the perception of a child who does not know the financial or ownership arrangements for some boats.  If you have first hand knowledge of the situation then so state it.  Were you involved in any negotiations with the referenced scout leader and any others including your "friend" or are you merely repeating the comments of your "friend", who may be disgruntled that he was unable to get use of the boats?  In the real world (including the military), a lot of things get done based on personal relationships (i.e. trust).  Perhaps there was a personal relationship between the leaders of the two (Chinese) groups, a relationship that did not extend to the leader of your group (your friend).  If your friend is the source of your negative views concerning the Sea Dragons leader, then I could see where a basis of mistrust could originate.  I wouldn't have much time for a fellow scout leader who thinks it appropriate to discuss such matters with the children he is entrusted to guide.



Desperate incident, however there was another one. I went to Provincial Jamboree 2003, on the Sunshine Coast, where the Sea Dragons had brought their boats. There were many activities set out in a rotation, and when it came to my Group's time to get on the water with the boats, we were told that another group had been given our spot. When I moved up to Venturers a few years later, I was told by the same Scout Leader that Chan had interfeared, and bumped us out because of bad blood.


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## medaid (19 Jul 2008)

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Leader of an all Asian Sea Scout Troop, where the primary language is Madarin, lets another Scout Group (who just happen to also be primarily Mandarin Chinese) use the SD boats, but denies another Scout Group (who just happen to be primarily white, anglophones).



So? Is that concrete proof? Is there repeated offenses? If it was such a big deal to you why didn't someone complain to the Provincial Council? Or was this an isolated incident where perhaps these people just didn't want to  play with your group? 

There were incidences where COs of Cadet units refused to share resources with each other, does that mean that the COs were racially biased too? Since one CO was of Asian ethnicity and another Caucasian? 



			
				cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Group composition might have changed since the incident 6 years ago, but I doubt it.



I really don't care for your tone here. Who cares if the group composition has changed? Are you going to say that when a predominantly East Indian youth group doesn't feel particularly interested in playing with a group of Caucasian youths that they're at fault somehow? What if they just don't want to play that day?



			
				cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> Whatever happened to equality and equal treatment? My Scout Group had access to a facility with small boats, and we invited every Scout Group in the area with an interest in sailing to come with us on our sail weekends.



Uh, equal treatment and equality... please... welcome to the real world. There is also something called Private Property, and the owners' rights to exercise who gets to utilize that Private Property be it boats, land or anything that is privately owned. You think this will fly if you were talking to a car rental place if your group was a group that they don't want to be associated with or service? They have that right you know? So does that scout group if the boats belonged to them. 

How generous of your Scout Group to offer some small boats to others. Sea Dragons were in this case so let it go. But the fact that you had to drag the whole "ethnicity" factor into this sickens me and leads me to question your motives...

Well?


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## medaid (19 Jul 2008)

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> I was told by the same Scout Leader that Chan had interfered, and bumped us out because of bad blood.



Well there you go. So someone f^cked up with Mr.Chan and now he's going to hold a grudge. Has anyone tried to apologize? Regardless this has gone into a bashing with a "ethnic" tint to it that I don't find appropriate...

Mods?


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## tabernac (19 Jul 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Uh, equal treatment and equality... please... welcome to the real world. There is also something called Private Property, and the owners' rights to exercise who gets to utilize that Private Property be it boats, land or anything that is privately owned. You think this will fly if you were talking to a car rental place if your group was a group that they don't want to be associated with or service? They have that right you know? So does that scout group if the boats belonged to them.  But the fact that you had to drag the whole "ethnicity" factor into this sickens me and leads me to question your motives...


I just don't like how one group was given access while another was denied. 

It was wrong of me to bring race into the equation. My appologies to all.


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## Blackadder1916 (19 Jul 2008)

cheeky_monkey said:
			
		

> . . . There were many activities set out in a rotation, and when it came to my Group's time to get on the water with the boats, we were told that another group had been given our spot. When I moved up to Venturers *a few years later*, I was told by the same Scout Leader that Chan had interfeared, and bumped us out because of bad blood.



The more you try to justify your position, the greater is the impression I get that your scout leader is the one who is the problem.  And again, all your allegations against this particular groups' leadership seemed to be based on comments from this "friend" of yours.


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