# Well-Qualified/Interested in Joining - Difficulties Getting Information - Help?



## Kyrinov (5 Jul 2013)

I was once in the CF.  I don't know if my "time in" counts as time in but that's irrelevant.  When I was 16 I applied to and was accepted to RMC as an Armoured Officer.  I went off to IAP, was going okay and then decided to VR out just before my final assessment exercise.  Can never really say why.  There were a lot of things I liked about the CF but it was a deep-down gut thing.  Something between missing my girlfriend, overwhelmed by being committed to something at barely 17 and my dissatisfaction with the discipline I saw in my training platoon, largely a product of my drunken abusive WO running the show, keeping us up wasted in his boxers at 1 AM to hang out and chat/chase the girls in our platoon before switching back to hangover mode and making up all sorts of phoney conducts to hide his shame.  Whatever the reason, I decided to leave, went to a civilian university, lived my life, boxed, acted, planted trees and went on with life.  

After my first year or so away I got in my head that I wanted back in.  That I'd had some time and experience and wanted to pursue it again.  I tried everything.  I applied for ROTP.  Delays on my file meant that I finally got called in for medical testing nearly half a year after my application and just before I was set to go away for my summer job.  I applied to the reserves and after calling and not getting responses on my application I discovered that it had spent seven months forgotten in a drawer in the unit office.  Figured it wasn't meant to be and again, got on with life.  

Since university I've continued and intensified my physical and martial arts training, spent years living in Asia, learned to speak, read and write Chinese and Japanese, written an MA on Chinese energy policy, American Intelligence operations and all things International Relations/Defence Policy.  I've hiked across dangerous countries alone and done information collection and research independently in China.  After seven years post-university, of which five were spent overseas learning Asian languages and martial arts and two were spent writing an MA on China and doing full-time martial arts study, I am back in my home town of Toronto.  I was accepted to paramedic school and thought I was finally turning a new leaf and finding a new direction.  Then I got contracted to write a few chapters for a defence policy book.  And I got bitten again.  I'm writing this partly out of frustration, partly to see if anyone has some magic insight.  I used to want to join the CF because I had illusions about it and myself when I was 17.  Then those illusions were shattered and I left.  Now I just feel that I'd be useful, damned useful.  But the same problems crop up again and again.  The CF seems incapable of recruiting me or helping me get in.  I mean on a basic level.  I've contacted recruiting centres and reserve units trying to get info, an application package, a conversation, a meeting.  Nothing.  Nobody returns calls, nobody sends paperwork, nobody seems interested in doing anything.  I'm 28 and on my way to finding a career that's going to give me the flexibility to perform in the ways I know I can.  I feel like I need to move on from this but I can't shake the feeling that it's just something I gotta see through but I can't seem to find a way in.  Its like a bloody curse.  I am frustrated because all the stuff Hillier talks about and all the reports I study and what I know about future force needs and what my CF colleagues from grad school tell me about my stuitability, I should at least be encouraged and helped in applying.  But instead its like I keep trying to get info and nobody seems interested.  I speak six languages, two of which are Asian, have been studying martial arts for 15 years, train daily, have published articles on China's internal situation that were years ahead of the mainstream media and proven resilience and responsiveness in dangerous/emergency situations.  And all I want is someone in the CF to help me decide if I should go ahead with applying to be an Intel Officer....how long it would take for my security clearance given my time overseas etc. etc.  What's going on?  I don't know if there's an answer to be had but I just kinda laugh at myself because I keep ending up doing this military/security related research and my skill set keeps trending more towards that kind of profession but I just can't seem to connect with the CF in any way.  Just thought I'd throw this out there to see if someone had some insight.  I keep thinking "forget it, that part of your life is over" but it just keeps cropping up and I make efforts to get information through recruiting centres or reserve units to put in an application and nothing happens.


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## Teager (5 Jul 2013)

RMC at 16??? I don't see how that is possible unless I'm missing something. You do realize you can fill out an online application and take it from there right Once you fill it out someone will contact you.


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## Kat Stevens (5 Jul 2013)

Unfortunately, Project TREADSTONE was shut down a few years ago, so a person with your self described level superawesome is in short demand.


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## CougarKing (5 Jul 2013)

Kyrinov said:
			
		

> Since university I've continued and intensified my physical and martial arts training, spent years living in Asia, learned to speak, read and write Chinese  and Japanese, written an MA on Chinese energy policy, American Intelligence operations and all things International Relations/Defence Policy.  I've hiked across dangerous countries alone and done information collection and research independently in China.



真的? 你是在哪里开始学中文?  

An MA in "Chinese energy policy"? Where?  :


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## Teager (5 Jul 2013)

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> 真的? 你是在哪里开始学中文?
> 
> An MA in "Chinese energy policy"? Where?  :



Chances are he learned it in Google translate.


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## Kyrinov (5 Jul 2013)

哪里都没有。。。我就随便去了中国。。。中文自学了。真真我觉得我就在兰飞我自己的时间这儿。是因为我的项目需要看看The Leslie Report。。。没有意思。。。杀死我了！ At Dalhousie under the Canada Chair for Oil and Natural Gas, at one point I was one of a handful of people in the country that understood how they used their State Owned Enterprises.  But I stopped research in China because they arrested that American consultant for the same shit I was doing.  Laugh all you want but I'm a smart, hardworking young Canadian with relevant skills who has tried repeatedly to engage with the CF and has not been able to for reasons that are beyond me.  I did put in an application online. I never received any contact from anyone.  I called my reserve unit and left a message asking when they were parading, how to put in an application, nothing.  This has been the pattern for years.  I only thought I'd give it another go because I was reading Hillier's memoirs and he seemed to be frustrated with similar patterns in recruiting and so I thought that since his tenure as CDS things might have gotten better.


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## Tetragrammaton (5 Jul 2013)

Reserve units tend to have minimal recruiting over the summer months, as most personnel are away on taskings and courses, and would recommend you wait until late August before attempting to contact a unit you are interested in joining. 

Unless you left the forces under bad terms, that is to say you were released under a negative release item, there should not be any issue in getting back in.


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## JM2345 (5 Jul 2013)

Teager said:
			
		

> RMC at 16??? I don't see how that is possible unless I'm missing something. You do realize you can fill out an online application and take it from there right Once you fill it out someone will contact you.



Unless I am reading it wrong, he was going to be attending RMC at 17, he just did the application process at 16. 

Kyrinov, I know you are frustrated, but if you read over your own experiences, you would see that blaming the Canadian Forces and saying "nobody seems interested in doing anything" is really uncalled for. They recruited you once, and you left. That is fine, people change their minds, and they have the right to do that. They tried to get you through the recruiting process again, and scheduled you for your medical, but apparently you withdrew your application or just didn't go. 

Then your story starts to fall apart when you applied for the reserves. What do you mean that you didn't get any responses? Nobody picked up the phone for 7 months? They just completely ignored you? When and how often did you try to contact them from when you applied, to when you found out your application was "forgotten"? Who told you it was forgotten in a drawer for 7 months? It just doesn't make sense to me unless you weren't trying to follow up with them.

So that brings me to your last sentence: When and how are you trying to get information through recruiting centers and reserve units to put in an application, and what do you mean nothing happens? Does the CF have a picture of you hung up in their offices and are personally trying to ignore you? Have you sent off an email to jobs@forces.ca with some of your questions and concerns, and are they ignoring you too?

I am not trying to make you feel like crap or anything, but your story just seems extremely biased towards making it look like the CF has been specifically trying NOT to recruit you and isn't doing their jobs, but then when we read between the lines, we see the facts contradict that and it is actually you changing your mind every time the CF gets ready to put you through recruiting again.

About your security clearance from being in Asia:

http://forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#step2-3

If you have ever lived outside Canada or have an immediate family member who currently lives outside Canada: You will be asked to fill out the “Pre-Enrolment Security Clearance Pre-Assessment Questionnaire”.  You should be prepared to provide adequate, verifiable information for the last 10 years. This information is used to determine if a Security Clearance Pre-Assessment is required, especially if you:

    have dual citizenship
  *  if you lived, worked, studied or travelled outside of Canada in the last 10 years for a total of at least 180 days *
    if you have a child, parent, step-parent, spouse, in-laws, brother or sister (half & step) living outside of Canada


*If a Clearance Pre-Assessment is required, it can take between 6 to 18 months to complete. *

Are you prepared for a 2 year application process time? It might take that long. 

I'm just currently an applicant with no CF experience, just giving my opinion and some information for you.


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## PAdm (5 Jul 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, Project TREADSTONE was shut down a few years ago, so a person with your self described level superawesome is in short demand.



Nice one... :nod:


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## Teager (5 Jul 2013)

Kyrinov said:
			
		

> 哪里都没有。。。我就随便去了中国。。。中文自学了。真真我觉得我就在兰飞我自己的时间这儿。是因为我的项目需要看看The Leslie Report。。。没有意思。。。杀死我了！ At Dalhousie under the Canada Chair for Oil and Natural Gas, at one point I was one of a handful of people in the country that understood how they used their State Owned Enterprises.  But I stopped research in China because they arrested that American consultant for the same crap I was doing.  Laugh all you want but I'm a smart, hardworking young Canadian with relevant skills who has tried repeatedly to engage with the CF and has not been able to for reasons that are beyond me.  I did put in an application online. I never received any contact from anyone.  I called my reserve unit and left a message asking when they were parading, how to put in an application, nothing.  This has been the pattern for years.  I only thought I'd give it another go because I was reading Hillier's memoirs and he seemed to be frustrated with similar patterns in recruiting and so I thought that since his tenure as CDS things might have gotten better.



Members here are calling BS on your post because if your as smart as you say you are you shouldn't have any trouble making contact with the CAF. There are plenty of people here even high school students who have been able to make contact and talk to a recruiter so it seems very odd that your having as much trouble as you say you are.

Also for the record theres about 50,000+ applicants a year and there is only 4000 positions available on the reg force side this year so recruiting is doing a pretty good job. Things since Hillers time are probably outdated. If your looking at reserve force there should be day staff around that will either direct you to the unit recruiter or tell you when they begin parading again which as mentioned is in late August/September.


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## JM2345 (5 Jul 2013)

Kyrinov said:
			
		

> I called my reserve unit and left a message asking when they were parading, how to put in an application, nothing.  This has been the pattern for years.



Which years has this been a pattern for? I consider myself fairly smart, though I only speak English fluently, and am not much more than a high school grad (with terrible grades) and a few University courses, but when I continue to call a place and leave a message, with no response, I change my tactics up pretty quickly. A visit in person, or trying a different reserve unit to get information would be my personal move. Hell, even taking a walk/drive past the base every evening Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday can get you the information on their parade night in a short time period. Just walking on the base and asking any person in uniform when parade night is will get the job done.


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## Teager (5 Jul 2013)

JM2345 said:
			
		

> Unless I am reading it wrong, he was going to be attending RMC at 17, he just did the application process at 16.



Thanks, hopefully thats what he meant a little rusty on ages and when people get out of high school.


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## JM2345 (5 Jul 2013)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, Project TREADSTONE was shut down a few years ago, so a person with your self described level superawesome is in short demand.



Actually reminded me more of "Taken"...

"But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for recruiters like you."


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## The_Falcon (5 Jul 2013)

These threads should be useful

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/109058.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103957.0.html


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## PAdm (5 Jul 2013)

JM2345 said:
			
		

> Actually reminded me more of "Taken"...
> 
> "But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for recruiters like you."



But unable to follow up with a nationally proven recruiting system.


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## Franko (5 Jul 2013)

PAdm said:
			
		

> But unable to follow up with a nationally proven recruiting system.



Or even show up at the reserve unit during regular working hours to talk to RSS pers and get the answers in person.

So you pulled out of Armd? Crse WO drunk in the shacks? I could _possibly _believe 20 or more years ago, not in the time frame you speak of. So in essence I'm calling bullshit. Even then, what the hell does that have to do with anything? 

I won't even get into you getting into the CF at the age of 16, seeing as Canada signed an agreement on child soldiers before you got in....so I'm calling bullshit on that one as well.

Maybe the CF isn't for you and something is in your old file preventing you from getting back in, ever think of that? A recruits performance on course followed by a volunteer withdrawal can leave you file in less than desirable shape, especially if you leave on bad terms and burned your bridges.

The fact, from your own admission, is that you haven't done anything beyond picking up a phone. If you really wanted in, get off your ass, pull up your pants, stop pouting and go talk to someone face to face. 

You are acting like the CF owes you a job. Here's a fun fact - the CF OWES YOU NOTHING. 

You are possible applicant and nothing more at this point.

Don't bother responding either, it's a waste of bandwidth.


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## Pusser (5 Jul 2013)

Folks can stop giving Buddy a hard time over him joining at 16.  The regulations are pretty clear on the subject and that part of his story is plausible.  The QR&O state:

6.01 - QUALIFICATIONS FOR ENROLMENT

(1) In order to be eligible for enrolment in the Canadian Forces as an officer or non-commissioned member, a person must:

be a Canadian citizen, except that the Chief of the Defence Staff or such officer as he may designate may authorize the enrolment of a citizen of another country if he is satisfied that a special need exists and that the national interest would not be prejudiced thereby;

be of good character;

have reached age 17 or such higher age as the Chief of the Defence Staff may prescribe, except that an applicant may be accepted for enrolment

*as an officer cadet prior to reaching age 17*,

in the Reserve Force upon reaching age 16, and

as an apprentice in the Regular Force upon reaching age 16, but no such apprentice under age 17 shall be
enrolled during an emergency, or subject to overseas service except service in training ships in non-operational waters;

if under age 18, have obtained the consent of one of the person's parents or of the person's guardian; and

meet such other conditions as the Chief of the Defence Staff may prescribe.


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## RectorCR (6 Jul 2013)

I think we should file this one under "I'm a special little snowflake" category and call it a day!


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