# 60 mm Trench



## army

Posted by *"Bruce Williams" <Williabr@uregina.ca>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:22:07 -0600*
> Can someone give me the dimensions for a 60 mm mortar trench.
> 
> Matt S
> 
Wherever the oic puts the stakes and says dig in. Sorry couldn‘t resist.
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## army

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:52:26 -0000*
Is this a joke?
*This* is not a joke - I really can‘t tell! : 
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Mathew Snoddon" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: 60 mm trench
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:10:47 -0500
Can someone give me the dimensions for a 60 mm mortar trench.
Matt S
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## army

Posted by *"Mason" <maseroni@hotmail.com>* on *Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500*
The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar, I know how
you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions of the
trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading as
well.
The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.  It‘s
basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the bottom, which
when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the projectile
out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory the
weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between 45 and 80 ish
degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some of it could be
wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know... I‘d ask
one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want to know more.
Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and the firer, but
I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
Hope that helped a little Joan!
Fraser
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## army

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:40:34 -0800*
Thereis a recommended size for the firing position of all crew served
weapons..I will look through my old PAMs tomorrow.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mason" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar, I know
how
> you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions of the
> trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading as
> well.
>
> The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.  It‘s
> basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the bottom, which
> when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the projectile
> out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory
the
> weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between 45 and 80
ish
> degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some of it could
be
> wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know... I‘d
ask
> one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want to know more.
>
> Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and the firer,
but
> I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
>
> Hope that helped a little Joan!
> Fraser
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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## army

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000*
Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was afraid to 
ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are shocking as 
you perhaps have figured out by now!.
They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or something. 
Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum, if you 
can!.
Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since no one ever 
mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
- Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Mason" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar, I know how
you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions of the
trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading as
well.
The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.  It‘s
basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the bottom, which
when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the projectile
out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory the
weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between 45 and 80 ish
degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some of it could be
wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know... I‘d ask
one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want to know more.
Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and the firer, but
I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
Hope that helped a little Joan!
Fraser
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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_________________________________________________________________________
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## army

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:46:26 -0800*
Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
Mike
travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
- back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
 http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
--- Original Message ---
"Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on 
Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
 ------------------ 
Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
afraid to 
ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
shocking as 
you perhaps have figured out by now!.
They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
something. 
Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
if you 
can!.
Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
no one ever 
mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
- Joan
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Mason" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
I know how
you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
of the
trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading
as
well.
The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
 It‘s
basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
bottom, which
when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
projectile
out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory
the
weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
45 and 80 ish
degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
of it could be
wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
I‘d ask
one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
to know more.
Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
the firer, but
I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
Hope that helped a little Joan!
Fraser
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
_________________________________________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------------
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-----
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The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:44:38 -0700*
Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall details
that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of the large
arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing battles of WW2
in Germany/Holland.
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
>
> Mike
> travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
> - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
>
>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
>
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
>  ------------------
>
> Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> afraid to
> ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> shocking as
> you perhaps have figured out by now!.
>
> They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> something.
> Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> if you
> can!.
>
> Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> no one ever
> mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
>
> - Joan
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Mason" 
> Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> To: 
> Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
>
> The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> I know how
> you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
> of the
> trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading
> as
> well.
>
> The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
>  It‘s
> basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> bottom, which
> when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> projectile
> out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory
> the
> weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> 45 and 80 ish
> degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> of it could be
> wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
> I‘d ask
> one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> to know more.
>
> Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> the firer, but
> I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
>
> Hope that helped a little Joan!
> Fraser
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
>
> -----
> Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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## army

Posted by *"Ian  McGregor" <imcgrego@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 22:21:58 -0500*
Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the Canadian Corps,
1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
I learned a lot from that book.  Specifically, the first book you read on a
major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution of a
small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have never had
any education on the history of the conflict.  The above book was
infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having read AJP
Taylor‘s The First World War.
Ian McGregor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall details
> that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of the large
> arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing battles of
WW2
> in Germany/Holland.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 
> To: 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> >
> >
> > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> >
> > Mike
> > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
> > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> >
> >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Original Message ---
> > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> >  ------------------
> >
> > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> > afraid to
> > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> > shocking as
> > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> >
> > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > something.
> > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> > if you
> > can!.
> >
> > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > no one ever
> > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
> >
> > - Joan
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Mason" 
> > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > To: 
> > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> >
> > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> > I know how
> > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
> > of the
> > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading
> > as
> > well.
> >
> > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
> >  It‘s
> > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > bottom, which
> > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> > projectile
> > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory
> > the
> > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > 45 and 80 ish
> > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > of it could be
> > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
> > I‘d ask
> > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > to know more.
> >
> > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > the firer, but
> > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> >
> > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > Fraser
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:17:40 -0500*
When a bomb hits your truck
And you‘re blown all to F***
Its a Mortar...
Rapidly moved, in the "interest" scheme of ranges to a Bn, if not Bde
Commander, hard hitting, accurate, light weight, rapid...great weapon...hope
nobody shoots them at me!
Because they can be "difficult" to get away from, except at high speed...
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian  McGregor" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the Canadian Corps,
> 1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
>
> I learned a lot from that book.  Specifically, the first book you read on
a
> major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution of a
> small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have never had
> any education on the history of the conflict.  The above book was
> infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having read AJP
> Taylor‘s The First World War.
>
> Ian McGregor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall
details
> > that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of the
large
> > arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing battles of
> WW2
> > in Germany/Holland.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 
> > To: 
> > Cc: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> > Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
> > > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> > >
> > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Original Message ---
> > > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> > >  ------------------
> > >
> > > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> > > afraid to
> > > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> > > shocking as
> > > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> > >
> > > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > > something.
> > > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> > > if you
> > > can!.
> > >
> > > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > > no one ever
> > > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
> > >
> > > - Joan
> > >
> > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > From: "Mason" 
> > > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > To: 
> > > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> > >
> > > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> > > I know how
> > > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
> > > of the
> > > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading
> > > as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> > > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
> > >  It‘s
> > > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > > bottom, which
> > > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> > > projectile
> > > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory
> > > the
> > > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > > 45 and 80 ish
> > > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > > of it could be
> > > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
> > > I‘d ask
> > > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > > to know more.
> > >
> > > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > > the firer, but
> > > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> > >
> > > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > > Fraser
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----
> > > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:37:51 -0700*
Wrong war.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian  McGregor 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the Canadian Corps,
> 1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
>
> I learned a lot from that book.  Specifically, the first book you read on
a
> major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution of a
> small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have never had
> any education on the history of the conflict.  The above book was
> infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having read AJP
> Taylor‘s The First World War.
>
> Ian McGregor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall
details
> > that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of the
large
> > arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing battles of
> WW2
> > in Germany/Holland.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 
> > To: 
> > Cc: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> > Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
> > > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> > >
> > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Original Message ---
> > > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> > >  ------------------
> > >
> > > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> > > afraid to
> > > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> > > shocking as
> > > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> > >
> > > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > > something.
> > > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> > > if you
> > > can!.
> > >
> > > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > > no one ever
> > > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
> > >
> > > - Joan
> > >
> > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > From: "Mason" 
> > > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > To: 
> > > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> > >
> > > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> > > I know how
> > > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
> > > of the
> > > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading
> > > as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> > > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
> > >  It‘s
> > > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > > bottom, which
> > > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> > > projectile
> > > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory
> > > the
> > > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > > 45 and 80 ish
> > > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > > of it could be
> > > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
> > > I‘d ask
> > > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > > to know more.
> > >
> > > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > > the firer, but
> > > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> > >
> > > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > > Fraser
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----
> > > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian  McGregor" <imcgrego@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:00:13 -0500*
OOPS
I‘d better read a little closer next time.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> Wrong war.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ian  McGregor 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the Canadian
Corps,
> > 1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
> >
> > I learned a lot from that book.  Specifically, the first book you read
on
> a
> > major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution of a
> > small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have never
had
> > any education on the history of the conflict.  The above book was
> > infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having read
AJP
> > Taylor‘s The First World War.
> >
> > Ian McGregor
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > > Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall
> details
> > > that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of the
> large
> > > arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing battles
of
> > WW2
> > > in Germany/Holland.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: 
> > > To: 
> > > Cc: 
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > > > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > > > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > > > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > > > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
> > > > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> > > >
> > > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Original Message ---
> > > > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > > > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> > > >  ------------------
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> > > > afraid to
> > > > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> > > > shocking as
> > > > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> > > >
> > > > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > > > something.
> > > > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> > > > if you
> > > > can!.
> > > >
> > > > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > > > no one ever
> > > > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
> > > >
> > > > - Joan
> > > >
> > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > From: "Mason" 
> > > > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > To: 
> > > > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> > > >
> > > > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> > > > I know how
> > > > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
> > > > of the
> > > > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little
misleading
> > > > as
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > > > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> > > > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
> > > >  It‘s
> > > > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > > > bottom, which
> > > > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> > > > projectile
> > > > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high
trajectory
> > > > the
> > > > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > > > 45 and 80 ish
> > > > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > > > of it could be
> > > > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
> > > > I‘d ask
> > > > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > > > to know more.
> > > >
> > > > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > > > the firer, but
> > > > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > > > Fraser
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > > > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:46:37 -0500*
The 60‘s still in service, Ian...
The 4.2 is long gone, the heavy is the 81mm, "Warsaw Pact" types may
continue the use of the 120 mm...not sure about that
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> Wrong war.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ian  McGregor 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the Canadian
Corps,
> > 1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
> >
> > I learned a lot from that book.  Specifically, the first book you read
on
> a
> > major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution of a
> > small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have never
had
> > any education on the history of the conflict.  The above book was
> > infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having read
AJP
> > Taylor‘s The First World War.
> >
> > Ian McGregor
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > > Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall
> details
> > > that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of the
> large
> > > arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing battles
of
> > WW2
> > > in Germany/Holland.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: 
> > > To: 
> > > Cc: 
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > > > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > > > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > > > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > > > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
> > > > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> > > >
> > > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Original Message ---
> > > > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > > > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> > > >  ------------------
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> > > > afraid to
> > > > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> > > > shocking as
> > > > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> > > >
> > > > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > > > something.
> > > > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> > > > if you
> > > > can!.
> > > >
> > > > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > > > no one ever
> > > > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
> > > >
> > > > - Joan
> > > >
> > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > From: "Mason" 
> > > > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > To: 
> > > > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> > > >
> > > > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> > > > I know how
> > > > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
> > > > of the
> > > > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little
misleading
> > > > as
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > > > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> > > > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
> > > >  It‘s
> > > > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > > > bottom, which
> > > > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> > > > projectile
> > > > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high
trajectory
> > > > the
> > > > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > > > 45 and 80 ish
> > > > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > > > of it could be
> > > > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
> > > > I‘d ask
> > > > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > > > to know more.
> > > >
> > > > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > > > the firer, but
> > > > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > > > Fraser
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > > > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:34:53 -0400*
Did I hear some muttering about "poor man‘s artillery"? :  If anyone wants
to learn about the artillery, read "Guns of Normandy" and "Guns of Victory"
and "Where the ****  are the Guns?" by George Blackburn,MC
BTW, re "old" soldiers, anyone remember WOI Finnie of the Black Watch , WOI
later Capt. Eric Caine of the Blach Watch, WOI/CWO "Stick" Holtom of RCA?
Characters all.
Ubique
Bob  Beth
m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:
> Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
>
> Mike
> travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
> - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
>
>  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
>
> --- Original Message ---
> "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
>  ------------------
>
> Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> afraid to
> ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> shocking as
> you perhaps have figured out by now!.
>
> They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> something.
> Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> if you
> can!.
>
> Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> no one ever
> mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
>
> - Joan
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Mason" 
> Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> To: 
> Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
>
> The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> I know how
> you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
> of the
> trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading
> as
> well.
>
> The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
>  It‘s
> basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> bottom, which
> when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> projectile
> out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory
> the
> weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> 45 and 80 ish
> degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> of it could be
> wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
> I‘d ask
> one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> to know more.
>
> Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> the firer, but
> I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
>
> Hope that helped a little Joan!
> Fraser
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
> -----
> Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.


----------



## army

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:44:18 -0700*
All three are excellent and Canadian to boot.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Beth MacFarlane 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> Did I hear some muttering about "poor man‘s artillery"? :  If anyone
wants
> to learn about the artillery, read "Guns of Normandy" and "Guns of
Victory"
> and "Where the ****  are the Guns?" by George Blackburn,MC
>
> BTW, re "old" soldiers, anyone remember WOI Finnie of the Black Watch ,
WOI
> later Capt. Eric Caine of the Blach Watch, WOI/CWO "Stick" Holtom of
RCA?
> Characters all.
> Ubique
> Bob  Beth
>
> m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> >
> > Mike
> > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London Ontario
> > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> >
> >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> >
> > --- Original Message ---
> > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> >  ------------------
> >
> > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> > afraid to
> > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> > shocking as
> > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> >
> > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > something.
> > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> > if you
> > can!.
> >
> > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > no one ever
> > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical beasts...
> >
> > - Joan
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Mason" 
> > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > To: 
> > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> >
> > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> > I know how
> > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the dimensions
> > of the
> > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little misleading
> > as
> > well.
> >
> > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl explosive
> > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
> >  It‘s
> > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > bottom, which
> > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> > projectile
> > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high trajectory
> > the
> > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > 45 and 80 ish
> > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > of it could be
> > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to know...
> > I‘d ask
> > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > to know more.
> >
> > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > the firer, but
> > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> >
> > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > Fraser
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> > -----
> > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:22:15 -0700*
Never said or thought the 4.2 was still aroundt. My comment about the 4.2
inch was more to do with the occasional similarity IN USE between the
howitzer and the mortar. It would seem that the CCRA must have involved hy
mortars as part of his fire plan. I took a few days trg on the 81mm mortar
from the PPs about 1960, just enough  to know that one doesn‘t want to carry
around that base plate very far, in fact one person probably couldn‘t do it.
Weight anyone?
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gow 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> The 60‘s still in service, Ian...
>
> The 4.2 is long gone, the heavy is the 81mm, "Warsaw Pact" types may
> continue the use of the 120 mm...not sure about that
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > Wrong war.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ian  McGregor 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > > Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the Canadian
> Corps,
> > > 1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
> > >
> > > I learned a lot from that book.  Specifically, the first book you read
> on
> > a
> > > major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution of
a
> > > small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have never
> had
> > > any education on the history of the conflict.  The above book was
> > > infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having read
> AJP
> > > Taylor‘s The First World War.
> > >
> > > Ian McGregor
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall
> > details
> > > > that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of the
> > large
> > > > arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing battles
> of
> > > WW2
> > > > in Germany/Holland.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Cc: 
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > > > > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > > > > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > > > > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > > > > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London
Ontario
> > > > > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> > > > >
> > > > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Original Message ---
> > > > > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > > > > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> > > > >  ------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> > > > > afraid to
> > > > > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> > > > > shocking as
> > > > > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> > > > >
> > > > > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > > > > something.
> > > > > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> > > > > if you
> > > > > can!.
> > > > >
> > > > > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > > > > no one ever
> > > > > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical
beasts...
> > > > >
> > > > > - Joan
> > > > >
> > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > From: "Mason" 
> > > > > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the motar,
> > > > > I know how
> > > > > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the
dimensions
> > > > > of the
> > > > > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little
> misleading
> > > > > as
> > > > > well.
> > > > >
> > > > > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl
explosive
> > > > > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of infantry.
> > > > >  It‘s
> > > > > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > > > > bottom, which
> > > > > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> > > > > projectile
> > > > > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high
> trajectory
> > > > > the
> > > > > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > > > > 45 and 80 ish
> > > > > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > > > > of it could be
> > > > > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to
know...
> > > > > I‘d ask
> > > > > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > > > > to know more.
> > > > >
> > > > > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > > > > the firer, but
> > > > > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > > > > Fraser
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----
> > > > > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > > > > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Sun, 25 Mar 2001 00:19:37 -0500*
I expect Mike will jump on your head, Ian, for mentioning "mortar" and
"Artillery" in the same sentence, let alone paragraph.
Again, I‘m not sure that there is any similarity between arty and morars in
a Bn fire plan, either...one‘s an internal asset, the other is more an
implied asset "attachment", as in, "given we have nothing better to do, we
may be available to support you", in real life, they maneuver, re-store, dig
in new surroundings, etc....so I‘m missing your point...
And, of course, yeah, the base plate is a heavy SOB.  Just the same as the
GPMG was heavy, the Carl G was heavy, the 106 was heavy, and yet we got to
carry each and every one of them...the base plate is heavy only until you
consider the astonishing rate of fire of the weapon, and the subsequent
weight of ammo the gun numbers hump into the pit....likewise my
commiserations to the Gunners on the Web this is not a case of smoothly
taking in from a convenient tailgate to the breech...did a number of ex‘s of
moving 84mm ammo 8 km to a firing point and am entirely familiar with just
how heavy that crap can be, carried on one‘s back....
Makes hiting the target all that more important!!!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> Never said or thought the 4.2 was still aroundt. My comment about the 4.2
> inch was more to do with the occasional similarity IN USE between the
> howitzer and the mortar. It would seem that the CCRA must have involved hy
> mortars as part of his fire plan. I took a few days trg on the 81mm mortar
> from the PPs about 1960, just enough  to know that one doesn‘t want to
carry
> around that base plate very far, in fact one person probably couldn‘t do
it.
> Weight anyone?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Gow 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > The 60‘s still in service, Ian...
> >
> > The 4.2 is long gone, the heavy is the 81mm, "Warsaw Pact" types may
> > continue the use of the 120 mm...not sure about that
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > > Wrong war.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Ian  McGregor 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:21 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > >
> > >
> > > > Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the Canadian
> > Corps,
> > > > 1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
> > > >
> > > > I learned a lot from that book.  Specifically, the first book you
read
> > on
> > > a
> > > > major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution
of
> a
> > > > small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have
never
> > had
> > > > any education on the history of the conflict.  The above book was
> > > > infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having
read
> > AJP
> > > > Taylor‘s The First World War.
> > > >
> > > > Ian McGregor
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall
> > > details
> > > > > that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of
the
> > > large
> > > > > arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing
battles
> > of
> > > > WW2
> > > > > in Germany/Holland.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: 
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Cc: 
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > > > > > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > > > > > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > > > > > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > > > > > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London
> Ontario
> > > > > > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Original Message ---
> > > > > > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > > > > > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> > > > > >  ------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but was
> > > > > > afraid to
> > > > > > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance are
> > > > > > shocking as
> > > > > > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > > > > > something.
> > > > > > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a minimum,
> > > > > > if you
> > > > > > can!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > > > > > no one ever
> > > > > > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical
> beasts...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Joan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > > From: "Mason" 
> > > > > > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the
motar,
> > > > > > I know how
> > > > > > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the
> dimensions
> > > > > > of the
> > > > > > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little
> > misleading
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl
> explosive
> > > > > > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of
infantry.
> > > > > >  It‘s
> > > > > > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > > > > > bottom, which
> > > > > > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends the
> > > > > > projectile
> > > > > > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high
> > trajectory
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > > > > > 45 and 80 ish
> > > > > > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > > > > > of it could be
> > > > > > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to
> know...
> > > > > > I‘d ask
> > > > > > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > > > > > to know more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > > > > > the firer, but
> > > > > > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > > > > > Fraser
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > message body.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > > >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > message body.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----
> > > > > > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > > > > > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser,
anywhere!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > message body.
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > >
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> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > message body.
> >
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> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:02:42 -0700*
Its funny, back in the bad old days when I was infantry I did a mortor
course 81 mm.  I think that what I remeber most is how heavy everything
is, the baseplate, tube and of course the ammunition.  Not the weight from
the manual, but how incredibly heavy it feels when you are humping it.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gow 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> I expect Mike will jump on your head, Ian, for mentioning "mortar" and
> "Artillery" in the same sentence, let alone paragraph.
>
> Again, I‘m not sure that there is any similarity between arty and morars
in
> a Bn fire plan, either...one‘s an internal asset, the other is more an
> implied asset "attachment", as in, "given we have nothing better to do,
we
> may be available to support you", in real life, they maneuver, re-store,
dig
> in new surroundings, etc....so I‘m missing your point...
>
> And, of course, yeah, the base plate is a heavy SOB.  Just the same as the
> GPMG was heavy, the Carl G was heavy, the 106 was heavy, and yet we got to
> carry each and every one of them...the base plate is heavy only until you
> consider the astonishing rate of fire of the weapon, and the subsequent
> weight of ammo the gun numbers hump into the pit....likewise my
> commiserations to the Gunners on the Web this is not a case of smoothly
> taking in from a convenient tailgate to the breech...did a number of ex‘s
of
> moving 84mm ammo 8 km to a firing point and am entirely familiar with just
> how heavy that crap can be, carried on one‘s back....
>
> Makes hiting the target all that more important!!!
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > Never said or thought the 4.2 was still aroundt. My comment about the
4.2
> > inch was more to do with the occasional similarity IN USE between the
> > howitzer and the mortar. It would seem that the CCRA must have involved
hy
> > mortars as part of his fire plan. I took a few days trg on the 81mm
mortar
> > from the PPs about 1960, just enough  to know that one doesn‘t want to
> carry
> > around that base plate very far, in fact one person probably couldn‘t do
> it.
> > Weight anyone?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Gow 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > > The 60‘s still in service, Ian...
> > >
> > > The 4.2 is long gone, the heavy is the 81mm, "Warsaw Pact" types may
> > > continue the use of the 120 mm...not sure about that
> > >
> > > John
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > >
> > >
> > > > Wrong war.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Ian  McGregor 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:21 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the
Canadian
> > > Corps,
> > > > > 1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
> > > > >
> > > > > I learned a lot from that book.  Specifically, the first book you
> read
> > > on
> > > > a
> > > > > major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution
> of
> > a
> > > > > small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have
> never
> > > had
> > > > > any education on the history of the conflict.  The above book was
> > > > > infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having
> read
> > > AJP
> > > > > Taylor‘s The First World War.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian McGregor
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall
> > > > details
> > > > > > that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of
> the
> > > > large
> > > > > > arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing
> battles
> > > of
> > > > > WW2
> > > > > > in Germany/Holland.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: 
> > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > Cc: 
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > > > > > > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > > > > > > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > > > > > > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > > > > > > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London
> > Ontario
> > > > > > > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Original Message ---
> > > > > > > "Joan O. Arc"  Wrote on
> > > > > > > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> > > > > > >  ------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but
was
> > > > > > > afraid to
> > > > > > > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance
are
> > > > > > > shocking as
> > > > > > > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > > > > > > something.
> > > > > > > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a
minimum,
> > > > > > > if you
> > > > > > > can!.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > > > > > > no one ever
> > > > > > > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical
> > beasts...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Joan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > > > From: "Mason" 
> > > > > > > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the
> motar,
> > > > > > > I know how
> > > > > > > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the
> > dimensions
> > > > > > > of the
> > > > > > > trench were 60 mm.  I thought the wording could be a little
> > > misleading
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl
> > explosive
> > > > > > > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of
> infantry.
> > > > > > >  It‘s
> > > > > > > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > > > > > > bottom, which
> > > > > > > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends
the
> > > > > > > projectile
> > > > > > > out and hopefully onto the enemy.  The round takes a high
> > > trajectory
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > > > > > > 45 and 80 ish
> > > > > > > degrees.  That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > > > > > > of it could be
> > > > > > > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to
> > know...
> > > > > > > I‘d ask
> > > > > > > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > > > > > > to know more.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > > > > > > the firer, but
> > > > > > > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > > > > > > Fraser
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > > > >  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----
> > > > > > > Sent using MailStart.com   http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html  
> > > > > > > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser,
> anywhere!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
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## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:18:48 -0700*
My reading, was from David Bercuson‘s "Maple Leaf Against the Axis", a
concise but very analytical examination of Canada‘s role in WW2 by the U of
Calgary prof. Published about 1995. Check my memory out - that‘s what
Burcuson said in so many words: 4.2" mortar combined with arty in one giant
fire plan, last 30 pages of the book. I don‘t have a copy in my "10,000
volume library"  :- but the Strathcona Public Library is only 2 miles 3.33
kms away from my home.
Mike O‘Leary can look after himself quite well, and with great articulation.
Normally, comparing arty and mortar employment is an apples and oranges
situation. I wasn‘t talking about everyday use of the weapons, just pointing
out an interesting exception or combination if you will when it seemes
that ALL 4.2s were cobbled together with the arty.
Heavy? Yes. And the 106 was usually jeep mounted. And it and the 84mm mortar
were not intended to be humped very far on foot.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gow 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> I expect Mike will jump on your head, Ian, for mentioning "mortar" and
> "Artillery" in the same sentence, let alone paragraph.
>
> Again, I‘m not sure that there is any similarity between arty and morars
in
> a Bn fire plan, either...one‘s an internal asset, the other is more an
> implied asset "attachment", as in, "given we have nothing better to do,
we
> may be available to support you", in real life, they maneuver, re-store,
dig
> in new surroundings, etc....so I‘m missing your point...
>
> And, of course, yeah, the base plate is a heavy SOB.  Just the same as the
> GPMG was heavy, the Carl G was heavy, the 106 was heavy, and yet we got to
> carry each and every one of them...the base plate is heavy only until you
> consider the astonishing rate of fire of the weapon, and the subsequent
> weight of ammo the gun numbers hump into the pit....likewise my
> commiserations to the Gunners on the Web this is not a case of smoothly
> taking in from a convenient tailgate to the breech...did a number of ex‘s
of
> moving 84mm ammo 8 km to a firing point and am entirely familiar with just
> how heavy that crap can be, carried on one‘s back....
>
> Makes hiting the target all that more important!!!
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > Never said or thought the 4.2 was still aroundt. My comment about the
4.2
> > inch was more to do with the occasional similarity IN USE between the
> > howitzer and the mortar. It would seem that the CCRA must have involved
hy
> > mortars as part of his fire plan. I took a few days trg on the 81mm
mortar
> > from the PPs about 1960, just enough  to know that one doesn‘t want to
> carry
> > around that base plate very far, in fact one person probably couldn‘t do
> it.
> > Weight anyone?
> >
> >
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----------



## army

Posted by *"Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com>* on *Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:33:59 -0700*
Before anyone jumps on me, on a recent posting I stated the bore size of the
Canadian weapon to be 84mm.
I was just following what someone else had posted, as I had it in my memory
that it was 81mm. In any even it was forty 40 years ago that I took all of
three 3 days training on the weapon from 2PPCLI instructors. Took
considerable more instruction, and taught, the 3.5" rocket launcher. For
Newbys, that weapon was similar to the American "bazooka". Of course I
didn‘t ever get to fire the 3.5". but then money was scarce in the Militia
in the 1960s. Just as well, as a Pte/Cpl can‘t remember which from the
PPCLI was killed in Wainwright about 1966-67 from the "blowback" from the
firing of the 3.5. Wrong place at the wrong time.
Ian Edwards
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## army

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Sun, 25 Mar 2001 10:33:29 -0700*
The 3.5 inch rocket launcher was what the Americans called the "super
bazooka".  developed for the Russian tanks in Korea I think.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Edwards 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 9:33 AM
Subject: Errata - Mortars
> Before anyone jumps on me, on a recent posting I stated the bore size of
the
> Canadian weapon to be 84mm.
> I was just following what someone else had posted, as I had it in my
memory
> that it was 81mm. In any even it was forty 40 years ago that I took all
of
> three 3 days training on the weapon from 2PPCLI instructors. Took
> considerable more instruction, and taught, the 3.5" rocket launcher. For
> Newbys, that weapon was similar to the American "bazooka". Of course I
> didn‘t ever get to fire the 3.5". but then money was scarce in the Militia
> in the 1960s. Just as well, as a Pte/Cpl can‘t remember which from the
> PPCLI was killed in Wainwright about 1966-67 from the "blowback" from the
> firing of the 3.5. Wrong place at the wrong time.
> Ian Edwards
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:38:21 -0500*
Can remember all the driblets of blood flowing down my face from doing the
winter firing of the 3.5 which were actually a great deal of fun, ‘til you
had to reach into the back of the tube, to rotate the rocket 90 degrees to
get the magneto to work
Anyway, the extreme cold of the Plains would freeze the propellant, and
everyone but the 3 would get blasted in the face with bits of propellant
blasting back from the rocket as it exited the tube.
Don. of course, is completely correct, it was evolved for Korea and
defeating the T34 at the time would melt through the armour of any tank in
existence, given a square hit...
John
PS
Screwed you up because the original Carl G is an 84 on the bore...when the
FNG‘s lost control of it and blasted into the air, we referred it the 84 mm
mortar...which in turn is the why of the 6.5 sub cal training round for the
weapon, to correct the expensive waste of ammo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 11:33 AM
Subject: Errata - Mortars
> Before anyone jumps on me, on a recent posting I stated the bore size of
the
> Canadian weapon to be 84mm.
> I was just following what someone else had posted, as I had it in my
memory
> that it was 81mm. In any even it was forty 40 years ago that I took all
of
> three 3 days training on the weapon from 2PPCLI instructors. Took
> considerable more instruction, and taught, the 3.5" rocket launcher. For
> Newbys, that weapon was similar to the American "bazooka". Of course I
> didn‘t ever get to fire the 3.5". but then money was scarce in the Militia
> in the 1960s. Just as well, as a Pte/Cpl can‘t remember which from the
> PPCLI was killed in Wainwright about 1966-67 from the "blowback" from the
> firing of the 3.5. Wrong place at the wrong time.
> Ian Edwards
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Tue, 27 Mar 2001 00:00:20 -0500*
Having ungraciously "humped" the 106 RR some disturbing distances, must
disagree.
In the advance, yes, the gun may be jeep or carrier mounted.
In the defence, thanks, I am not wearing my helmet and charming smile during
the airburst bombardment...will be in a hole with the rest of the grunts,
ground mounted.  There will be no jeep tracks to my trench.
In the withdrawal phase, yes, the 84‘s stay longer, but you tend to man
handle them out, and they are over 400 lbs unloaded...the 106‘s of
course
The warhead weighs some 17 lbs...the complete round, casing, propellent and
warhead, weighs over 30 lbs.  Plus, of course your .50 cal spotter
rounds...likewise, the 84 rounds aren‘t light weight either
Nor was humping the .50 cal, nor was even the "G PIG" accompanied by a
personal weapon with its basic load.....
But such are the jobs of the infanteer...
So to revert to a previous thread, the physical standards of those in the
MOC are severe, and reducing them on any account is both unfair and
unacceptable...to advance through the command structure you have to be able
to physically do the job in any and all parts...and, in my exclusive
opinion heavy on "OPINION", if you can‘t do it, you do not "belong"
there....and PC be damned.
John
PS
And no disrespect to Mortar Platoon, Ian, those tubes are indeed heavy, as
are base plates, and having spun the 2 1/2 Ton with umpteen tons of ammo
aboard around on the ice patch, the ammo can seem pretty fruity too...just
how bore safe is that crap?
PPS
Note the M113 was equipped to fire an 81 mm through the hatch, though this
was not, in fact, a "normal" employment, by my understanding....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> My reading, was from David Bercuson‘s "Maple Leaf Against the Axis", a
> concise but very analytical examination of Canada‘s role in WW2 by the U
of
> Calgary prof. Published about 1995. Check my memory out - that‘s what
> Burcuson said in so many words: 4.2" mortar combined with arty in one
giant
> fire plan, last 30 pages of the book. I don‘t have a copy in my "10,000
> volume library"  :- but the Strathcona Public Library is only 2 miles
3.33
> kms away from my home.
>
> Mike O‘Leary can look after himself quite well, and with great
articulation.
> Normally, comparing arty and mortar employment is an apples and oranges
> situation. I wasn‘t talking about everyday use of the weapons, just
pointing
> out an interesting exception or combination if you will when it seemes
> that ALL 4.2s were cobbled together with the arty.
>
> Heavy? Yes. And the 106 was usually jeep mounted. And it and the 84mm
mortar
> were not intended to be humped very far on foot.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Gow 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > I expect Mike will jump on your head, Ian, for mentioning "mortar" and
> > "Artillery" in the same sentence, let alone paragraph.
> >
> > Again, I‘m not sure that there is any similarity between arty and morars
> in
> > a Bn fire plan, either...one‘s an internal asset, the other is more an
> > implied asset "attachment", as in, "given we have nothing better to do,
> we
> > may be available to support you", in real life, they maneuver, re-store,
> dig
> > in new surroundings, etc....so I‘m missing your point...
> >
> > And, of course, yeah, the base plate is a heavy SOB.  Just the same as
the
> > GPMG was heavy, the Carl G was heavy, the 106 was heavy, and yet we got
to
> > carry each and every one of them...the base plate is heavy only until
you
> > consider the astonishing rate of fire of the weapon, and the subsequent
> > weight of ammo the gun numbers hump into the pit....likewise my
> > commiserations to the Gunners on the Web this is not a case of smoothly
> > taking in from a convenient tailgate to the breech...did a number of
ex‘s
> of
> > moving 84mm ammo 8 km to a firing point and am entirely familiar with
just
> > how heavy that crap can be, carried on one‘s back....
> >
> > Makes hiting the target all that more important!!!
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ian Edwards" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > > Never said or thought the 4.2 was still aroundt. My comment about the
> 4.2
> > > inch was more to do with the occasional similarity IN USE between the
> > > howitzer and the mortar. It would seem that the CCRA must have
involved
> hy
> > > mortars as part of his fire plan. I took a few days trg on the 81mm
> mortar
> > > from the PPs about 1960, just enough  to know that one doesn‘t want to
> > carry
> > > around that base plate very far, in fact one person probably couldn‘t
do
> > it.
> > > Weight anyone?
> > >
> > >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:40:35 -0700*
Actually, I never saw it, but they make an illumination round for the Carl
G, and one other kind... HE maybe. I saw them in a magazine, or British
training manual, or something. Maybe our own training manual......can‘t
remember....
MacF
 > FNG‘s lost control of it and blasted into the air, we referred it
the 84 mm
> mortar...which in turn is the why of the 6.5 sub cal training round for
the
> weapon, to correct the expensive waste of ammo
>
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----------



## army

Posted by *"John Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:15:59 -0500*
Yes, and there‘s a variant that is muzzle loading, oversized, about 125 mm
or so...been around close to 20 years.
Given that venue over-sized head you could get into lots of different
interesting variants HESH, for instance...but as I‘m not terribly "up" on
the armour evolvements, and the issue is self limiting on how much ammo Mr.
Grunt can "hump" ie carry, wise guys
But yeah, it is a very capable, man transportable weapon platform...
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "The MacFarlanes‘" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Errata - Mortars
> Actually, I never saw it, but they make an illumination round for the Carl
> G, and one other kind... HE maybe. I saw them in a magazine, or British
> training manual, or something. Maybe our own training manual......can‘t
> remember....
> MacF
>
>  > FNG‘s lost control of it and blasted into the air, we referred it
> the 84 mm
> > mortar...which in turn is the why of the 6.5 sub cal training round for
> the
> > weapon, to correct the expensive waste of ammo
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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----------

