# Canadian soldier shot in Kabul sleeping quarters (With Own Weapon)



## Korus (15 Feb 2004)

Canadian soldier shot in Kabul sleeping quarters; investigation underway 

LES PERREAUX   
Canadian Press  

Sunday, February 15, 2004

KABUL (CP) - A Canadian soldier was in critical condition with a bullet wound to the face Sunday afternoon after his rifle went off in his sleeping quarters at Camp Julien. 

Col. Alain Tremblay, the commanding officer of the Canadian operation in Kabul, said the man is expected to survive. 

Investigators believe the shot went off while the soldier was alone. 

"Obviously if he was alone, only two options remain open," Tremblay said. "Either it was an accident, or potentially a suicide attempt." 

The incident happened at 1:30 p.m. local time in the tent village where soldiers sleep at the camp. He was shot by his C-7 rifle, the common weapon carried by most Canadian soldiers on the base, Tremblay said. 

Soldiers in the area ran to help the man and doctors arrived about five minutes later from the camp hospital, which is a few hundred metres away from the tent. Fifteen minutes later the soldier was in surgery, said Lt.-Col. Carl Walker, the chief surgeon at Camp Julien. 

A surgical team worked on the soldier through much of the afternoon at the camp hospital, restoring his air passage and stabilizing him. He is expected to recover but will need months of surgery to repair his wound, Walker added. 

"He is very lucky to be alive indeed," said Walker. "If the bullet had been half a centimetre further back, he would have been finished for sure." 

The soldier will probably stay in Kabul for a couple of days, returning to Canada once he is stable. 

The soldier‘s name was not released. He arrived in Afghanistan on Feb. 10. His family, who are from Quebec, was notified by a Canadian Forces padre Sunday morning. 

Meanwhile, military police combed the tent for evidence in their investigation Sunday afternoon. 

Soldiers at Camp Julien always have access to their weapons and ammunition and frequently clean their guns in their sleeping quarters. However, guns are not supposed to be loaded on the base. 

When soldiers come back to camp from missions, they are supposed to follow a strict procedure to clear their weapons of all ammunition. The process includes pointing the barrel of the weapon into a box of sand and pulling the trigger to make sure the weapon has not ammunition in it. 

Tremblay said soldiers also undergo a strict screening process, including an interview with social workers or psychologists, before they leave Canada to ensure they are mentally fit. 

"It would be doubtful that there were signs," Tremblay said. "But we will review files to see if any indicators were missed." 

It is unlikely the incident would lead to a review of the army‘s policy on the storage of guns and ammunition, Tremblay added. 

"People have their arms and their ammunition with them," he noted. "It‘s the nature of the profession and standard protocol."


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## Scoobie Newbie (15 Feb 2004)

I know a guy that was in Bosnia 2000 that shot his own hand while attempting to clean it.  Stuff happens although a head shot does raise the question of suicide.


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## miranda (15 Feb 2004)

Cyprus 82 same thing aguy was there 3 or 4 days and took his own life in Ledra palace. Close quarters and nobody heard it SMG 1 round.


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## Scoobie Newbie (15 Feb 2004)

First DAY in Bosnia (we were still taking over from the previous Reg) this guy gets all dressed up in his kit.  2 Bandelers (sp) of M204‘s and everything, round up the spout.  He walks to teh gate and tells the guys not to worry ‘cause he‘s got their backs.  He also picked his own floor to sleep on.  Four floors one per platoon.  He picked his own floor and bunk.  He wasn‘t even on the ground for 6 hours and the sent him back home.

We also had a MCpl pull his own pistol out on one of his guys in his section while on gate guard.  The guy was fairly new so he didn‘t thump him when he put his pistol back in its hoster.  And the guy was not joking when he pulled it.


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## sinblox (15 Feb 2004)

CFL, what was the real kicker that sent him home?


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## Scoobie Newbie (15 Feb 2004)

If your asking what he did to get sent home then it was the way he was loaded for bear with no reason to be etc.  He went in for some head space and timing.


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## portcullisguy (15 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by CFL:
> [qb] I know a guy that was in Bosnia 2000 that shot his own hand while attempting to clean it.  Stuff happens although a head shot does raise the question of suicide. [/qb]


There is NO reason, NONE whatsoever, to be cleaning a loaded weapon.  Period.

Anyone who does is manifestly unsafe and asking for a negligent discharge to happen.

A soldier who manages to shoot himself in barracks within days of arriving in a theatre of conflict under the circumstances described in the article raises serious questions as to their emotional stability, or at a minimum, their competency to perform the task.


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## Infanteer (15 Feb 2004)

> First DAY in Bosnia (we were still taking over from the previous Reg) this guy gets all dressed up in his kit. 2 Bandelers (sp) of M204‘s and everything, round up the spout. He walks to teh gate and tells the guys not to worry ‘cause he‘s got their backs. He also picked his own floor to sleep on. Four floors one per platoon. He picked his own floor and bunk. He wasn‘t even on the ground for 6 hours and the sent him back home.


One of the guys from my unit with you guys on that Roto told me about that in the mess.  Must of been in the same platoon.



> There is NO reason, NONE whatsoever, to be cleaning a loaded weapon. Period.
> 
> Anyone who does is manifestly unsafe and asking for a negligent discharge to happen.
> 
> A soldier who manages to shoot himself in barracks within days of arriving in a theatre of conflict under the circumstances described in the article raises serious questions as to their emotional stability, or at a minimum, their competency to perform the task.


Agree with you one hundred percent, portcullisguy.

To shoot yourself you have to conciously load the weapon, ready it, and remove the safety and pull the trigger.  It is hard to see how all three could be performed accidentaly in a barracks room.


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## Scoobie Newbie (15 Feb 2004)

Wasn‘t that guy shot in Somila killed by a guy killing his weapon.  I agree no reason but that doesn‘t mean it can‘t happen.


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## Derick Lewis (16 Feb 2004)

My understanding of the guy shot in Somolia was that his bunk mate was ******* around then went to clear the weapon and did so improperly, then again I wasn‘t there you would have to ask a CAR member for the full story.


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## Danny (16 Feb 2004)

What ever happened to Safety Precautions????


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## Redeye (16 Feb 2004)

One of my weapons safety lectures some time ago included a tirade about the importance of safe handling and proper clearing/safety precautions - it was all former 2Cdo guys - they knew the man well, I think his name was Tony something.  They told us much the story you heard, CFL, some guy fiddling around with the weapon, somehow (and I don‘t know how!) didn‘t realize that just because there‘s no mag on the weapon that there could still be a round in the spout, and the C7 doesn‘t have a "magazine safety".  He shot the deceased pretty much right in the face.  There are so many things wrong with the whole incident that one doesn‘t even know where to begin.


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## Armymedic (16 Feb 2004)

Thanks to embedded reporters we now hear about this...Its a double edged sword.


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## Padraig OCinnead (17 Feb 2004)

This is why Jnr leaders need to watch their soldier‘s weapon procedures. It‘s lazyness and bad habits. What happens in training with blank pyro can happen in real time with live ammo. I normally expect this from CSS trades as the amount of weapon handling time is minimal compared to 031 and other pointy end guys. But they can still have mistakes.


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## Franko (17 Feb 2004)

The problem lies in the fact that some people become complacent in their own pers weap handling drills. They become lax. 

Attention must be given to the state of a weapons readiness. I treat EVERY weapon as being loaded. Learned hard once. 

The DS on my CLC sliped in a dummy round in my rifle when I caught some zzzs during a 50% watch. We had been going hard with no sleep for 5 days and nights and I had a small chance to get some.

I woke up for my shift(about 5 mins sleep) and grabed my weapon and started to trundle off to my trench,made about 4 steps when I realised I forgot to clear it. I did the normal drill and a silver round went flying...and I felt sick to my stomach.   

I did pushups and situps until the sun literally came up.

I will NEVER do that again.

Perhapse Canada should start doing hot ranges like the Yanks and Brits...might make it more normal for us to handle live weapons.

Any thoughts?

Regards


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## Infanteer (17 Feb 2004)

> Perhapse Canada should start doing hot ranges like the Yanks and Brits...might make it more normal for us to handle live weapons.
> 
> Any thoughts?


I agree.

I remember a Canadian who served in the 75th Ranger Regiment said that if they had ONE ND with blank or live in the Rangers they would be punted.  They did too much live-fire to tolerate sloppy drills.


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## pte anthony (17 Feb 2004)

I have respect for rank but personally if a Mcpl pulled his pistol on me soon as he holstered it CRACK with the rifle butt. As for ND‘s they happen because of carelessness and over confidence. I spaze out when anyone points the muzzle in an unsafe direction. Hot ranges could help but **** half the newbies in my regiment would probably end up ****ed up   :soldier:


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## sinblox (17 Feb 2004)

I had a sergeant on my BMQ/SQ who said he wished we could have blanks in our rifles and MGs all the time with a round in the chamber. Makes sense. What do you guys think? It would certainly make people more concious about the weapons.


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## Scoobie Newbie (17 Feb 2004)

I would have beat the guy within an inch of his life as well but this guy was new and in shock I guess.


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## Pikache (17 Feb 2004)

NDs happen because of undisciplined troops playing with the trigger. Why the heck are you playing around with the trigger? It‘s not a toy.


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## OLD SCHOOL (18 Feb 2004)

Correct. An ND in a Ranger regiment will qualify you as the Lone Ranger on the bus outta‘ town. Better hope you don‘t hit anyone with it or you will be cargo on the bus outta‘ town.


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## Spr.Earl (18 Feb 2004)

Yes it all come‘s down to training and one useing it in the real world.
I won‘t pass comment of the latest.

BUT I REMIND EVERY ONE!!!!

Think about the war stories you are goining to post!!As this topic as I see it is very sensitive!

The press come here to gauge our post‘s about our thought‘s and feeling‘s toward‘s D.N.D.

Please keep such incident‘s off this mean‘s as this is a public forum,do it privately.

Just a word from the wise


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## miranda (18 Feb 2004)

It all comes down to trg , realism, frequency, and practice, practice, practice, Annual qualifications such as throw two dummy grenades, and pass a wpns handling test, then perhaps fire PWT 1 yearly just doesn‘t cut it. Show me the money....for best results.


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## Jarnhamar (20 Feb 2004)

"I know a guy that was in Bosnia 2000 that shot his own hand while attempting to clean it."

i don‘t know, i think im calling bull$hit on this one.

Cleaning a loaded weapon?  Cocking your weapon while in theater is a pretty serious thing.
The first thing you do when entering a camp is clear your weapon. First thing you do when cleaning your weapon is clear it. Unless you have some obscure way of cleaning your C7 the first thing you do to clean it is break open the rifle.
This guy shot himself in the face with it?

I can think of two other possible reasons why a round was fired, i just can‘t swallow the whole accident line.


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## Armymedic (20 Feb 2004)

This string didn‘t really start out as an ND string. This guy had issues...

In addition to noting how hard  it is to have a ND while in your quarters, this guy bought the muzzle to bear on his chin.....why would that be?

This wasn‘t an ND....he meant to pull the trigger.


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Feb 2004)

Thats what he said (shooting hand).  Of course everyone knew he was fing around.  He got a pention and OT out of it (and no charge) though.


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## Colin Parkinson (20 Feb 2004)

I think hot ranges for the Reg force combat arms types would be great, however judjing by the amount of training support arms and the reserves are getting, you would not want to, until they have been worked up a bit, shame that is the present state of affairs.


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 Feb 2004)

I shoot twice a year live if I‘m lucky.


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## Scratch_043 (26 Feb 2004)

I‘m not even enlisted yet(Reserve)(hoping for 31st Combat Engineers), but I try to get out and fire as much as possible at the local range, no C7s, but shooting is shooting, and every time we go out, safety has to be #1. If you are trained right, no shot is an accident.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Feb 2004)

It sounds from where the entrance wound was that this was no accident either.


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## Infanteer (27 Feb 2004)

Torn,

Thank you for your useless contribution to the conversation.  I recommend you read the following thread before carrying on.

*Welcome to Cdnarmy.ca*


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## Enzo (27 Feb 2004)

Jesus Infanteer, you make me laugh man. I love it.


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