# ROTP pay after graduation.



## inferno (4 Apr 2006)

Just curious about how the pay scales work for ROTP candidates who graduate from a Civy University...

Base pay for a ROTP 2nd Lt. is 3806$ a month.

Base pay for a DEO 2nd Lt. is 3255$ a month.

Now, are there deductions I can't see for the ROTP Officers.. or do they really get paid a higher salary then DEO officers?

Seems strange to me as a DEO applicant paid ~$60,000 for their education, whereas the ROTP applicants had the Crown pay... yet they get paid more once they get into the working world?

Can someone explain this for me?


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## SweetNavyJustice (5 Apr 2006)

I am by no means an authority on this, but I would suggest that the reason that an ROTP receives a higher pay is because they have been in the military for "x" number of years while completing their education.  As such, they have completed a certain degree of training, with some summers doing EWAT (Employment While Awaiting Training).  This compared to the DEO individual who is fresh off the street so to speak.  

Again, just a guess on my part.


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## Wookilar (5 Apr 2006)

It all evens out at Capt anyway. For GSO's, at any rate.


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## 23007 (5 Apr 2006)

Here is the pay scale:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/OfficerRegFPayRate_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28


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## Lumber (12 Jun 2006)

SweetNavyJustice said:
			
		

> I am by no means an authority on this, but I would suggest that the reason that an ROTP receives a higher pay is because they have been in the military for "x" number of years while completing their education.  As such, they have completed a certain degree of training, with some summers doing EWAT (Employment While Awaiting Training).  This compared to the DEO individual who is fresh off the street so to speak.
> 
> Again, just a guess on my part.



That's exactly right. Even though ROTP 2nd LT's were in 'school' for four years, they are still considered CF members for four years and their pay increase reflects that accordingly. Another examply of this is when an NCM reservist who is (I think) a MCpl or higher transfers over to ROTP. Because as a MCpl he makes more than a 1st year OCdt he doesn't switch over to the OCdt pay scale, he keeps his NCM pay until his OCdt or 2LT pay meets or passes his NCM pay. Okay this isnt an _exact_ comparaison, but it does show how our pay system reflects service already commited. You are not going to putforth 4 years of service as an NCM and receive _less_ pay in your 4th, 5th etc. years because you switch to ROTP.


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## Kid_X (18 Jun 2006)

23007 said:
			
		

> Here is the pay scale:
> 
> http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/OfficerRegFPayRate_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28



Now according to this Pay Table, there are levels A, B, C, etc, what's the difference?  Also, Pilot 2Lt makes more than other 2Lt's, but their ranking does not go up to Brigadier-General.  At the June 3rd enrolment ceremony, I was walking around with my great uncle and an old friend of his came to talk to us, he had started out as a fighter pilot, but was now a Brigadier-General.  Did he have to switch occupations at one point in his career to do this?  And if you switch occupations like that, does it affect your time towards a promotion at all?


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## Inch (18 Jun 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> That's just for the pay scales. Pilots make alot as junior ranks so they can be convinced to stay in.
> 
> The CAS is usually (read almost always) a pilot. And he's a LGen. An air force CDS is usually a pilot, and he's a full General.



If you read the caveat on the pilot pay tables, no one really gets those rates anymore. You must have been enrolled as an OCdt in the Regular force prior to Sept 30th 1998 to be eligible for those tables. For the complete opposite reason to what you stated, pilots are on restricted release for 7 years after getting our wings. Thus, why the need to pay the big bucks when you can't go anywhere anyway?


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## Crimmsy (18 Jun 2006)

Kid_X said:
			
		

> Now according to this Pay Table, there are levels A, B, C, etc, what's the difference?



From the very bottom of that webpage:


> Pay Level:
> 
> A - ROTP (former CBI 204.2111 & 204.2151)
> B - OCTP-NFS (former CBI 204.2113 & 204.2153)
> ...


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## Kid_X (19 Jun 2006)

ok, thank you


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## exsemjingo (31 Jul 2006)

So...
How much does a DEO candidate get paid when they begin training?  Under officer Cadet on the pay scales, there is only A, B, and D, no C.


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## George Wallace (31 Jul 2006)

exsemjingo said:
			
		

> So...
> How much does a DEO candidate get paid when they begin training?  Under officer Cadet on the pay scales, there is only A, B, and D, no C.


So as a potential Officer Candidate, did you go and look up what A, B, and D meant; and at what rank a DEO Candidate enters as?


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## exsemjingo (31 Jul 2006)

Don't insult my intelligence.
I just cannot tell which group DEO candidates are most like.  Are they most like ROTP cadets, since both are just starting out?  Or are they more like one of the other classifications for reasons that are not immediately apparent?
I looked for what I know I am on the chart and did not find it, nor did I find any obvious equivalent.  From what I have already learnt around here, it is a bad idea to guess at anything in the army.


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## George Wallace (31 Jul 2006)

So as not to insult your intelligence, what are you and I can tell you what you are for you.


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## George Wallace (31 Jul 2006)

exsemjingo said:
			
		

> So...
> How much does a DEO candidate get paid when they begin training?  Under officer Cadet on the pay scales, there is only A, B, and D, no C.



As you really didn't seem to be that interested in this, and I am tired of waiting while you travel around the boards like a chicken with its' head cut off, I just said what the Heck!, I will insult your intelligence!

So you are a potential (aspiring) Officer Candidate, who is trying to come in as a DEO.  I am sure that they told you that you will have a rank of some sort, and that it would 2Lt if you have a Degree already.  DEO is line C, of which there is none for OCdt, because you are not an OCdt, but a 2Lt.  If you look at the Lines for Pay Rates for 2Lt, low and behold you will find an A, a B, a D, and lookit that, a C.  Cripes! There is even an E.

Do you feel a little smarter now?

You'll get paid $3255, $3530, $3806, $4088, $4369, $4650, or $4929 monthly, depending on what Incentive level NDHQ decides to grant you.  There are Basic, and Levels 1 to 6 for 2Lt.  You will rise an Incentive level on each anniversary of Service. 

You will do the same thing in every Rank Level.  You don't necessarily have to rise to the highest Incentive Level before promotion.  If you reach the highest Incentive Level and do not get promoted, you will not get a higher rate of pay, unless there is a Pay Raise.  Incentive Levels have nothing to do with Pay Raises.

Do you feel a little bit more smarter now?

If you want to play games, you have come to the right place.  You will be summed up.


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## exsemjingo (1 Aug 2006)

Why do you bother answering if you have neither the patience to do so, nor the desire to provide useful information?
In the hopes that someone else might answer (otherwise I would send you a personal message, G.W.), which category would a DEO officer cadet fall under?  
I already know that DEO's receive backpay upon completion of training, but the question is how much comes during training?


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## George Wallace (1 Aug 2006)

Fill your boots.  If my word isn't good enough for you, I'll get on the phone and have the CDS give you a call personally.   :

You should know now that most of us will run away at the first sight of you holding a map and compass.


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## exsemjingo (1 Aug 2006)

You sir are an inspiration to soldiers of all ranks.


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## George Wallace (1 Aug 2006)

Why thank you!


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## Shamrock (1 Aug 2006)

He ain't kidding about the CDS bit, either.

There are times when I'm afraid of just _who_ George Wallace knows.


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## Michael OLeary (1 Aug 2006)

exsemjingo said:
			
		

> Don't insult my intelligence.
> I just cannot tell which group DEO candidates are most like.  Are they most like ROTP cadets, since both are just starting out?  Or are they more like one of the other classifications for reasons that are not immediately apparent?
> I looked for what I know I am on the chart and did not find it, nor did I find any obvious equivalent.  From what I have already learnt around here, it is a bad idea to guess at anything in the army.



SEARCH PAGE - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search

Search terms - DEO pay

Time parameters - 0 to 360 days

Boards - Recruiting; The Recruiting Process; and RMC, CMR, ROTP

Returned threads - 20

Including:

Information Regarding Contract and Salary? - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47244.0.html

Reply Number 7:



			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Regarding your pay on entry, I believe all officer files start [at OCdt].  Once the documentation is complete to ascertain other entitlements, such as for DEO, you will be moved to the correct bracket.



Reply Number 8:



			
				windsorftw said:
			
		

> For D.E.O. you start out as an Officer Cadet.  After basic training you get promoted to 2nd Lieut and your wages will increase.  That should have been explained to you by CFRC, I know they explained it to me when I picked up an info package.



Simple enough?


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## Torlyn (1 Aug 2006)

exsemjingo said:
			
		

> You sir are an inspiration to soldiers of all ranks.



It sickens me that a lot of troops that are going to be joining our forces are going to be seeing your posts as an introduction to the officer ranks in the military.  As for the above quote, what gives you the right to say ANYTHING about soldiers of all ranks when you've never served, and the only serving members you've come in contact with here you've been rude with?  You need to seriously un-*$#& that attitude.

If the pay tables confused you, I can't wait to hear how well you do with small party tasks.   :

T


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## xmarcx (1 Aug 2006)

Does it really even matter what you're going to get paid? The army isn't going to let you starve to death or make you sleep on a park bench. If you want to be an Officer it should be because of the job not the cash - there are a heck of a lot of people in the same boat trying to get in through DEO waiting on offers and selection boards who are desperate for the challenge, and their bank accounts are the furthest thing from their minds.

I think it would be great if DND let equal candidates bargain each other down for selection. For a guaranteed January IAP/BOTC I will gladly work for all the vegetarian IMPs I could eat, and free use of a good tent and a choice piece of land close to a hose.  ;D


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## Torlyn (1 Aug 2006)

xmarcx said:
			
		

> I will gladly work for all the vegetarian IMPs I could eat, and free use of a good tent and a choice piece of land close to a hose.  ;D



Hehe... Wait until you have your first IMP dump...   

T


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## xmarcx (1 Aug 2006)

Torlyn said:
			
		

> Hehe... Wait until you have your first IMP dump...
> 
> T



Age 12, Air Cadets, Cabbage Rolls....oh the memories....


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## exsemjingo (1 Aug 2006)

It never hurt to budget, Xmarcx.
As far as the rest of you whom I offended, I had a few uncles and grandparents who served, and the un-spoken rule around them was 'don't talk about the war'.
That just will not do, should I be selected and need to work along side you.  
Let me have it now; it's the only way I'll learn.


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## Good2Golf (1 Aug 2006)

Exsemjingo, best that you build some thick skin now.  The answer to the question you were asking was given several times in the thread by a number of members, yet you kept asking the question.  Folks have two options then; consider that you are either not getting it and try to explain it differently, or consider that you are being somewhat obstinate about not receiving an answer which lines up exactly with what you are expecting.  Nobody was trying to be a prick there.  I can tell you, I was following this thread for a bit, saw that the answer about the "Column C DEO 2LT" had been answered and was thinking about which point you might need a "written 2x4 across the forehead" to help the info sink in.  I think George was actually being rather kind to you.

The "takeaway" from this for you should not be the answer that a DEO candidate is an OCdt until you pass of the parade square at graduation in St.Jean, thus becoming a "Column C" DEO 2Lt, but rather learning the lesson of making best use of the tools available to you to accomplish something, in this case finding the relatively simple and "out there for all to see" answer to a question.  Nobody is asking you to prostrate yourself to some superior being to get the answer, but a bit less obstinacy/more humility might be something to think about.

Life in the military has its challenges.  It is also a very social organisation so your personal interaction skills, be they as used with peers, to superiors or, in due course, to any subordinates you may have are the foundation of how you would live out your life in the military.

Food for thought.

Cheers,
Duey


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## andpro (1 Aug 2006)

Maybe this pay scale is less confusing for you, as it has each category clearly marked: http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/other/RegularForcePay.pdf


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## exsemjingo (2 Aug 2006)

Thank you for all the information and understanding.  
As far as my attitude, only Torlyn's reply smarts: because it's true.
I really should know better.


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