# Officers



## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com Matt Bondy* on *Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:21:34 -0400*
The following comments were submitted by
Matt Bondy Juno847627709@aol.com on
Wednesday, August 16, 2000 at 21:21:33
to the Canadian Army Mailing List.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok. I‘m getting a lot of conflicting statements and
opinions about the preferred officer candidates.
Here‘s my predicament- I want to be an infantry officer, as most of you know. Now, I hear that the only way i‘m really
going to get anywhere is if I go to RMC. Is that true?
I mean, if I enter under, let‘s say, the DEO plan, so I already have a university degree when I join, does that
mean I‘m going to be stuck at the rank of Captain or Major, necesarily for my whole career.
I mean, if I‘m relatively well rounded, not dog dumb, and already have a university degree and am well rounded, I can go as far as the 
next guy right? even if heor she went to RMC?
I might just be worrying over nothing, but if I can‘t get into RMC, does that mean I should just not bother?
Please respond asap. I‘m quite worried.
-Matt
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:51:04 EDT*
I think saying "well-rounded" once would have done the trick, eh?
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:11:45 -0700*
Are you worried about RMC grads getting preference during promotion and
postings.  I had heard of a "ring knocker" type of attitude, but never knew
if it extended to officers careers.  I know plenty of people who went UTPM
and made it senior officer levels.
Any comments from serving and former officers out there.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Michael Neil" <barra_kismul@hotmail.com>* on *Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:52:21 EDT*
If your worried about promotion, you might as well not even consider joining 
the Canadian Armed Forces including the infantry.  It has very little to do 
with whether or not you attend RMC.  Rather, the chances of rising above the 
rank of Captain is extremely limited for anyone.  In fact, there are more 
Captains in the Canadian Armed Forces than any other rank Officers or 
enlisted, aside from Privates.  If you picture the Officer class as an hour 
glass, you would need to place a huge buldge just below the middle.  As you 
should remember, Captains are still junior officers.  The main reason for 
this limitation are two, albeit semingly conflicting, policies.  First, 
given the continually shrinking Canadian Forces, the DND, under 
bureaucratic/budgetary constraint, has capped the number of total officers 
for each type of commission.  Therefore there are a limited number of 
junior, and especially senior, officers.  This is the direct result of a 
small military.  As you can rationally see, the chances for promotion are 
greatter in either a large, or enlarging, military.  The second reason for 
the limited chances for promotion to senior officer ranks is a matter of 
politics.  It is a generally accepted rule in the Canadian Armed Forces, and 
probably most other foreign armies/navies/airforces, and there are two types 
of officer.  There are the good kind who look out for their people and their 
mission.  There are also the bad kind, who look out for number one 
careerists and don‘t mind playing the political game regardless of who 
gets stepped on in the process.  Meanwhile, the general rule is that it is 
these so-called ‘bad‘ officers who usually end up as senior officers.  This 
is not to say that there is no such thing as a senior ‘good‘ officer.  
Rather, the main point here is that under the highly politicised Canadian 
Forces, there is a greatter chance of bad officers being promoted that their 
good counterparts.  As a former enlistedman Infantry and Officer Navy 
I‘ve seen them both.
Don‘t get me wrong, I don‘t regret being a member of the CF.  It had its up 
and downs.  The only problem for many ex-service personnel is that they 
tended to grow personnally and professionally than the DND.
Matt, I hope you get what you want...a commission as a combat arms 
Infantry officer.  If your only looking to climb up the latter through 
promotion than you might want to re-consider joining the CF.  Enjoy your 
post-secondary education for all it has to offer, personal growth and 
adventure.  Who ever tells you that you need to attend RMC to attain better 
prospects for acquire a commission as a senior officer is full of bull****. 
Should you attempt to get your commission, I sincerly hope that you make the 
most of it and become one of the ‘good‘ guys.  Rank does not mean 
everything.  Should you want any more advice, I‘d be glad to help.
Mac
P.s. The vast majority of CF members who make the military their career are 
not in Combat arms.  The exact figures change monthly, but aside from the 
Primary Reserve Canada only has roughtly 12-15 thousand combat arms 
personnel in the Army Infanty, Artiller, Armour  The physical and 
emotional stress of the job tends to force many commission and 
non-commission alike to either change their MOS i.e. infantry to the 
non-combat arms, or leave the military all together.  I would recommend that 
you first try to get a commission as an infantry officer in the Primary 
Reserve, see if you enjoy it for a few years, and then possibly transfer to 
‘Regular‘ Full-time status.  This could save you a lot of emotional and 
physical pain should you not find yourself well suited to the task.
>From: Juno847627709@aol.com Matt Bondy
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Officers
>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:21:34 -0400
>
>The following comments were submitted by
>Matt Bondy Juno847627709@aol.com on
>Wednesday, August 16, 2000 at 21:21:33
>to the Canadian Army Mailing List.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Ok. I‘m getting a lot of conflicting statements and
>opinions about the preferred officer candidates.
>Here‘s my predicament- I want to be an infantry officer, as most of you 
>know. Now, I hear that the only way i‘m really
>going to get anywhere is if I go to RMC. Is that true?
>I mean, if I enter under, let‘s say, the DEO plan, so I already have a 
>university degree when I join, does that
>mean I‘m going to be stuck at the rank of Captain or Major, necesarily for 
>my whole career.
>I mean, if I‘m relatively well rounded, not dog dumb, and already have a 
>university degree and am well rounded, I can go as far as the
>next guy right? even if heor she went to RMC?
>I might just be worrying over nothing, but if I can‘t get into RMC, does 
>that mean I should just not bother?
>Please respond asap. I‘m quite worried.
>-Matt
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>For more information, please see The Canadian Army Home Page at:
>
>http://army.cipherlogic.on.ca
>--------------------------------------------------------
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>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"William J <andy> Anderson" <aanderson@sk.sympatico.ca>* on *Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:46:35 -0600*
on 16/8/00 20:11, my good friend dave at dave.newcombe@home.com wrote:
> I know plenty of people who went UTPM
> and made it senior officer levels.
The present Commander of the Army was an artillery apprentice.
That is going from the bottom to the top. I was a RCEME apprentice and it is
safe to say that being an apprentice is pretty much the bottom rung of the
ladder.
arte et marte
andy sends:
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Nick Butler" <absolut_nick@hotmail.com>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:16:15 EDT*
Thanks for that post, even though it wasn‘t a question I asked, I have much 
the same concerns.  I‘ve already started a degree at a civvy university so 
I‘m going to head into RESO and make the decision in a few years.  Glad to 
know I was somewhat on the right track!
>From: "Michael Neil" 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: Officers
>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:52:21 EDT
>
>If your worried about promotion, you might as well not even consider 
>joining
>the Canadian Armed Forces including the infantry.  It has very little to 
>do
>with whether or not you attend RMC.  Rather, the chances of rising above 
>the
>rank of Captain is extremely limited for anyone.  In fact, there are more
>Captains in the Canadian Armed Forces than any other rank Officers or
>enlisted, aside from Privates.  If you picture the Officer class as an 
>hour
>glass, you would need to place a huge buldge just below the middle.  As you
>should remember, Captains are still junior officers.  The main reason for
>this limitation are two, albeit semingly conflicting, policies.  First,
>given the continually shrinking Canadian Forces, the DND, under
>bureaucratic/budgetary constraint, has capped the number of total officers
>for each type of commission.  Therefore there are a limited number of
>junior, and especially senior, officers.  This is the direct result of a
>small military.  As you can rationally see, the chances for promotion are
>greatter in either a large, or enlarging, military.  The second reason for
>the limited chances for promotion to senior officer ranks is a matter of
>politics.  It is a generally accepted rule in the Canadian Armed Forces, 
>and
>probably most other foreign armies/navies/airforces, and there are two 
>types
>of officer.  There are the good kind who look out for their people and 
>their
>mission.  There are also the bad kind, who look out for number one
>careerists and don‘t mind playing the political game regardless of who
>gets stepped on in the process.  Meanwhile, the general rule is that it is
>these so-called ‘bad‘ officers who usually end up as senior officers.  This
>is not to say that there is no such thing as a senior ‘good‘ officer.
>Rather, the main point here is that under the highly politicised Canadian
>Forces, there is a greatter chance of bad officers being promoted that 
>their
>good counterparts.  As a former enlistedman Infantry and Officer Navy
>I‘ve seen them both.
>
>Don‘t get me wrong, I don‘t regret being a member of the CF.  It had its up
>and downs.  The only problem for many ex-service personnel is that they
>tended to grow personnally and professionally than the DND.
>
>Matt, I hope you get what you want...a commission as a combat arms
>Infantry officer.  If your only looking to climb up the latter through
>promotion than you might want to re-consider joining the CF.  Enjoy your
>post-secondary education for all it has to offer, personal growth and
>adventure.  Who ever tells you that you need to attend RMC to attain better
>prospects for acquire a commission as a senior officer is full of bull****.
>Should you attempt to get your commission, I sincerly hope that you make 
>the
>most of it and become one of the ‘good‘ guys.  Rank does not mean
>everything.  Should you want any more advice, I‘d be glad to help.
>
>Mac
>
>
>P.s. The vast majority of CF members who make the military their career are
>not in Combat arms.  The exact figures change monthly, but aside from the
>Primary Reserve Canada only has roughtly 12-15 thousand combat arms
>personnel in the Army Infanty, Artiller, Armour  The physical and
>emotional stress of the job tends to force many commission and
>non-commission alike to either change their MOS i.e. infantry to the
>non-combat arms, or leave the military all together.  I would recommend 
>that
>you first try to get a commission as an infantry officer in the Primary
>Reserve, see if you enjoy it for a few years, and then possibly transfer to
>‘Regular‘ Full-time status.  This could save you a lot of emotional and
>physical pain should you not find yourself well suited to the task.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: Juno847627709@aol.com Matt Bondy
>>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>>Subject: Officers
>>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:21:34 -0400
>>
>>The following comments were submitted by
>>Matt Bondy Juno847627709@aol.com on
>>Wednesday, August 16, 2000 at 21:21:33
>>to the Canadian Army Mailing List.
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Ok. I‘m getting a lot of conflicting statements and
>>opinions about the preferred officer candidates.
>>Here‘s my predicament- I want to be an infantry officer, as most of you
>>know. Now, I hear that the only way i‘m really
>>going to get anywhere is if I go to RMC. Is that true?
>>I mean, if I enter under, let‘s say, the DEO plan, so I already have a
>>university degree when I join, does that
>>mean I‘m going to be stuck at the rank of Captain or Major, necesarily for
>>my whole career.
>>I mean, if I‘m relatively well rounded, not dog dumb, and already have a
>>university degree and am well rounded, I can go as far as the
>>next guy right? even if heor she went to RMC?
>>I might just be worrying over nothing, but if I can‘t get into RMC, does
>>that mean I should just not bother?
>>Please respond asap. I‘m quite worried.
>>-Matt
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>For more information, please see The Canadian Army Home Page at:
>>
>>http://army.cipherlogic.on.ca
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>>message body.
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
>
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Mrtn <mrtn@home.com>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:48:57 -0400*
Hi,
I am only a private right now and I am entering into university.  I have
thought about joining RESO but I‘ve heard it has a 50 failure rate.  I
want to know if getting a commission right away is better or getting
commissioned after I go through the NCM ranks.  I‘ve heard that by the
time you reach warrant officer and if you commission you automatically
go to the rank of captain.  Is that true?
Martin
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:55:56 -0600*
if you‘re in alrady - stay a pte for the winter - then start the RESO next
summer - don‘t fear failure - be confident - you will have no trouble - what
trade are you in?
you start as an OCdt - then 2Lt - Lt - the n Capt - length of time depends
on your trade
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Mrtn [SMTP:mrtn@home.com]
> Sent:Thursday, August 17, 2000 11:49 AM
> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject:Officers
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am only a private right now and I am entering into university.  I have
> thought about joining RESO but I‘ve heard it has a 50 failure rate.  I
> want to know if getting a commission right away is better or getting
> commissioned after I go through the NCM ranks.  I‘ve heard that by the
> time you reach warrant officer and if you commission you automatically
> go to the rank of captain.  Is that true?
> 
> Martin
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Mrtn <mrtn@home.com>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:10:01 -0400*
Right now I am in engineer.  I want to switch trades though, maybe
artillery or communications.  I understand that a lot of NCMs respect
officers more if they‘ve been through the NCM ranks.
Derrick Forsythe wrote:
> 
> if you‘re in alrady - stay a pte for the winter - then start the RESO next
> summer - don‘t fear failure - be confident - you will have no trouble - what
> trade are you in?
> 
> you start as an OCdt - then 2Lt - Lt - the n Capt - length of time depends
> on your trade
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mrtn [SMTP:mrtn@home.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 11:49 AM
> > To:   army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > Subject:      Officers
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am only a private right now and I am entering into university.  I have
> > thought about joining RESO but I‘ve heard it has a 50 failure rate.  I
> > want to know if getting a commission right away is better or getting
> > commissioned after I go through the NCM ranks.  I‘ve heard that by the
> > time you reach warrant officer and if you commission you automatically
> > go to the rank of captain.  Is that true?
> >
> > Martin
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *ghallman <ghallman@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:41:54 -0300*
I‘m putting in a memo our first training night in September for RESO.  I
can‘t comment on engineer RESO but from what I‘ve heard about the infantry
RESO phases Phase I is like QL2,  Phase II is like QL3 and ISCC in one,
Phase III is leading a platoon in the dismounted role, and Phase IV is
leading a platoon in the mounted-mechanized role.  I‘ve heard that Phase I
is a cake-walk if you‘ve been in the infantry for a couple of years and
Phase II is more difficult but not too tough.  Phase III is supposed to be
the climax if you want to use that term.  If you pass Phase III then you‘ll
pass Phase IV well probably.  I kinda have an advantage finding out the
dirt since I live 15 minutes away from C.F.B. Gagetown.  If anyone knows
different let me know.
At 02:10 PM 17/08/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>Right now I am in engineer.  I want to switch trades though, maybe
>artillery or communications.  I understand that a lot of NCMs respect
>officers more if they‘ve been through the NCM ranks.
>
>Derrick Forsythe wrote:
>> 
>> if you‘re in alrady - stay a pte for the winter - then start the RESO next
>> summer - don‘t fear failure - be confident - you will have no trouble -
what
>> trade are you in?
>> 
>> you start as an OCdt - then 2Lt - Lt - the n Capt - length of time depends
>> on your trade
>> 
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Mrtn [SMTP:mrtn@home.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 11:49 AM
>> > To:   army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>> > Subject:      Officers
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I am only a private right now and I am entering into university.  I have
>> > thought about joining RESO but I‘ve heard it has a 50 failure rate.  I
>> > want to know if getting a commission right away is better or getting
>> > commissioned after I go through the NCM ranks.  I‘ve heard that by the
>> > time you reach warrant officer and if you commission you automatically
>> > go to the rank of captain.  Is that true?
>> >
>> > Martin
>> > --------------------------------------------------------
>> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> > message body.
>> --------------------------------------------------------
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>> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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>
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:52:53 -0600*
I can‘t speak for all other trades - but it‘s a long road to Captain in the
artillery:
To be a Gunner Captain Reserve you must have:
a Phase I - III
b Mititia Officers‘ Staff Course MOSC
c Intermediate tactics Part I
d Intermediate tactics Part II
e Intermediate Classification Training FOO Part I and
f Intermediate Classification Training Part II.
For Tankers and Grunts all that is required for Captain is - a through b
inclusive -- and I think that to be an Engineer Officer you actually have to
be studying or a graduated Engineer
I cant speak to the CSS at all 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Mrtn <mrtn@home.com>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:10:35 -0400*
Cool I just came back from gagetown.  The problem with RESO for me is
that it‘s too long.  I don‘t want to go through months of it then fail
and have to redo a whole course again.  I think they probably won‘t take
me because I am only a Pte.  I heard Cpls have a much higher chance of
getting in.
ghallman wrote:
> 
> I‘m putting in a memo our first training night in September for RESO.  I
> can‘t comment on engineer RESO but from what I‘ve heard about the infantry
> RESO phases Phase I is like QL2,  Phase II is like QL3 and ISCC in one,
> Phase III is leading a platoon in the dismounted role, and Phase IV is
> leading a platoon in the mounted-mechanized role.  I‘ve heard that Phase I
> is a cake-walk if you‘ve been in the infantry for a couple of years and
> Phase II is more difficult but not too tough.  Phase III is supposed to be
> the climax if you want to use that term.  If you pass Phase III then you‘ll
> pass Phase IV well probably.  I kinda have an advantage finding out the
> dirt since I live 15 minutes away from C.F.B. Gagetown.  If anyone knows
> different let me know.
> 
> At 02:10 PM 17/08/2000 -0400, you wrote:
> >Right now I am in engineer.  I want to switch trades though, maybe
> >artillery or communications.  I understand that a lot of NCMs respect
> >officers more if they‘ve been through the NCM ranks.
> >
> >Derrick Forsythe wrote:
> >>
> >> if you‘re in alrady - stay a pte for the winter - then start the RESO next
> >> summer - don‘t fear failure - be confident - you will have no trouble -
> what
> >> trade are you in?
> >>
> >> you start as an OCdt - then 2Lt - Lt - the n Capt - length of time depends
> >> on your trade
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Mrtn [SMTP:mrtn@home.com]
> >> > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 11:49 AM
> >> > To:   army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >> > Subject:      Officers
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > I am only a private right now and I am entering into university.  I have
> >> > thought about joining RESO but I‘ve heard it has a 50 failure rate.  I
> >> > want to know if getting a commission right away is better or getting
> >> > commissioned after I go through the NCM ranks.  I‘ve heard that by the
> >> > time you reach warrant officer and if you commission you automatically
> >> > go to the rank of captain.  Is that true?
> >> >
> >> > Martin
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------
> >> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> > message body.
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> message body.
> >--------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Mrtn <mrtn@home.com>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:13:27 -0400*
I don‘t understand why it‘s so hard to get anywhere in the artillery.  I
am still trying to decide on a trade to remuster to.  Maybe I should
just stay non-commissioned for awhile.  What are the advantages and
disadvantages of being an officer?
Derrick Forsythe wrote:
> 
> I can‘t speak for all other trades - but it‘s a long road to Captain in the
> artillery:
> 
> To be a Gunner Captain Reserve you must have:
> 
> a Phase I - III
> b Mititia Officers‘ Staff Course MOSC
> c Intermediate tactics Part I
> d Intermediate tactics Part II
> e Intermediate Classification Training FOO Part I and
> f Intermediate Classification Training Part II.
> 
> For Tankers and Grunts all that is required for Captain is - a through b
> inclusive -- and I think that to be an Engineer Officer you actually have to
> be studying or a graduated Engineer
> 
> I cant speak to the CSS at all
> 
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"dave" <dave.newcombe@home.com>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:49:53 -0700*
You can also be an MILE Engineer Officer, with a Technologist diploma.
"
> I can‘t speak for all other trades - but it‘s a long road to Captain in
the
>
> For Tankers and Grunts all that is required for Captain is - a through
b
> inclusive -- and I think that to be an Engineer Officer you actually have
to
> be studying or a graduated Engineer"
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Nick Butler" <absolut_nick@hotmail.com>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:46:39 EDT*
I can‘t speak with any real authority other than what I have been told, 
which is that there aren‘t many junior officers of sufficient calibre going 
into the reserves.  I‘m going in fresh technically though I may start in the 
fall as an NCM.  I was briefly in the TA in England and Cadets but that‘s 
the only experience I have.  It seems the bigger key at least at the moment 
is getting in touch with units, though that is understandable, given that 
most of them are tasked out right now.
>From: Mrtn 
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: Officers
>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:10:35 -0400
>
>Cool I just came back from gagetown.  The problem with RESO for me is
>that it‘s too long.  I don‘t want to go through months of it then fail
>and have to redo a whole course again.  I think they probably won‘t take
>me because I am only a Pte.  I heard Cpls have a much higher chance of
>getting in.
>
>ghallman wrote:
> >
> > I‘m putting in a memo our first training night in September for RESO.  I
> > can‘t comment on engineer RESO but from what I‘ve heard about the 
>infantry
> > RESO phases Phase I is like QL2,  Phase II is like QL3 and ISCC in one,
> > Phase III is leading a platoon in the dismounted role, and Phase IV is
> > leading a platoon in the mounted-mechanized role.  I‘ve heard that Phase 
>I
> > is a cake-walk if you‘ve been in the infantry for a couple of years and
> > Phase II is more difficult but not too tough.  Phase III is supposed to 
>be
> > the climax if you want to use that term.  If you pass Phase III then 
>you‘ll
> > pass Phase IV well probably.  I kinda have an advantage finding out 
>the
> > dirt since I live 15 minutes away from C.F.B. Gagetown.  If anyone knows
> > different let me know.
> >
> > At 02:10 PM 17/08/2000 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Right now I am in engineer.  I want to switch trades though, maybe
> > >artillery or communications.  I understand that a lot of NCMs respect
> > >officers more if they‘ve been through the NCM ranks.
> > >
> > >Derrick Forsythe wrote:
> > >>
> > >> if you‘re in alrady - stay a pte for the winter - then start the RESO 
>next
> > >> summer - don‘t fear failure - be confident - you will have no trouble 
>-
> > what
> > >> trade are you in?
> > >>
> > >> you start as an OCdt - then 2Lt - Lt - the n Capt - length of time 
>depends
> > >> on your trade
> > >>
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: Mrtn [SMTP:mrtn@home.com]
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 11:49 AM
> > >> > To:   army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> > >> > Subject:      Officers
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > I am only a private right now and I am entering into university.  I 
>have
> > >> > thought about joining RESO but I‘ve heard it has a 50 failure 
>rate.  I
> > >> > want to know if getting a commission right away is better or 
>getting
> > >> > commissioned after I go through the NCM ranks.  I‘ve heard that by 
>the
> > >> > time you reach warrant officer and if you commission you 
>automatically
> > >> > go to the rank of captain.  Is that true?
> > >> >
> > >> > Martin
> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
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> > >> > message body.
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> > >> message body.
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
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> > >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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> > >message body.
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
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> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org>* on *Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:58:47 -0700*
Cause we‘re so much smarter -
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mrtn" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Officers
> I don‘t understand why it‘s so hard to get anywhere in the artillery.  I
> am still trying to decide on a trade to remuster to.  Maybe I should
> just stay non-commissioned for awhile.  What are the advantages and
> disadvantages of being an officer?
>
> Derrick Forsythe wrote:
> >
> > I can‘t speak for all other trades - but it‘s a long road to Captain in
the
> > artillery:
> >
> > To be a Gunner Captain Reserve you must have:
> >
> > a Phase I - III
> > b Mititia Officers‘ Staff Course MOSC
> > c Intermediate tactics Part I
> > d Intermediate tactics Part II
> > e Intermediate Classification Training FOO Part I and
> > f Intermediate Classification Training Part II.
> >
> > For Tankers and Grunts all that is required for Captain is - a through
b
> > inclusive -- and I think that to be an Engineer Officer you actually
have to
> > be studying or a graduated Engineer
> >
> > I cant speak to the CSS at all
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> > to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> > message body.
> --------------------------------------------------------
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>
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:29:00 EDT*
Mac, I sincerely appreciate you sharing with me your vast insight. It has 
been most helpful.
    You needn‘t worry about me dabbling in political, selfish bull**** to get 
ahead. That‘s just not going to happen.
    Thanks for the encouragement and rest assured, I‘ll be, like yourself, 
one of the good guys.
                -Matt
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Nick Butler" <absolut_nick@hotmail.com>* on *Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:55:50 EDT*
Good on you, if you are heading to RESO next summer, I‘ll see you in 
Gagetown...  My thanks to for all the insight I know it will be of great 
assistance to me.
>From: Juno847627709@aol.com
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: Officers
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:29:00 EDT
>
>Mac, I sincerely appreciate you sharing with me your vast insight. It has
>been most helpful.
>     You needn‘t worry about me dabbling in political, selfish bull**** to 
>get
>ahead. That‘s just not going to happen.
>     Thanks for the encouragement and rest assured, I‘ll be, like yourself,
>one of the good guys.
>                 -Matt
>--------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>message body.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Mrtn <mrtn@home.com>* on *Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:22:18 -0400*
Thank you for all the helpful information.  I‘d probably stick with NCM
for awhile because I don‘t think I can commit myself for 3 days a week
in the rest of the year in RESO.  During exam times 3 days a week is
just too much.
Nick Butler wrote:
> 
> Good on you, if you are heading to RESO next summer, I‘ll see you in
> Gagetown...  My thanks to for all the insight I know it will be of great
> assistance to me.
> 
> >From: Juno847627709@aol.com
> >Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >Subject: Re: Officers
> >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:29:00 EDT
> >
> >Mac, I sincerely appreciate you sharing with me your vast insight. It has
> >been most helpful.
> >     You needn‘t worry about me dabbling in political, selfish bull**** to
> >get
> >ahead. That‘s just not going to happen.
> >     Thanks for the encouragement and rest assured, I‘ll be, like yourself,
> >one of the good guys.
> >                 -Matt
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:18:29 EDT*
Sorry, all, but I"ve got another question.- About the class B reserves. I 
can‘t find anything out about this.
    From what I understand, I can make a full time job out of being a Class B 
Reserve Officer. I was told there were a few different regiments in 
ontarioinf.units at which an officer could be commissioned full time as a 
class B officer.
Can someone please help me with this?>??????????
                                    -Matt
ps.-thanks again for all the help with the other officer questions.
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca>* on *Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:23:38 -0600*
that could be true - but be warned:
A you have to be of some use to the unit - tehy usually take Captains
because of the experience staff and field
B It can become a trap - great job for 6 months to a year - not so good any
longer that say 2-3 years and as a 1st job to gain experience in project mgt
etc
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Juno847627709@aol.com [SMTP:Juno847627709@aol.com]
> Sent:Friday, August 18, 2000 12:18 PM
> To:army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject:Re: Officers
> 
> Sorry, all, but I"ve got another question.- About the class B reserves. I 
> can‘t find anything out about this.
>     From what I understand, I can make a full time job out of being a
> Class B 
> Reserve Officer. I was told there were a few different regiments in 
> ontarioinf.units at which an officer could be commissioned full time as
> a 
> class B officer.
> Can someone please help me with this?>??????????
>                                     -Matt
> ps.-thanks again for all the help with the other officer questions.
> --------------------------------------------------------
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:34:45 -0700*
>there aren‘t many junior officers of sufficient calibre going into the
reserves.
I think it unlikely that the general population of officer candidates is
necessarily worse than at any previous time.  If there is a perceived weakness,
perhaps it‘s the failure of the existing military establishment all of us,
formally and informally to instill useful and correct ethics and capabilities.
Brad Sallows
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com>* on *Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:39:37 -0700*
>From what I understand, I can make a full time job out of being a Class B
Reserve Officer. I was told there were a few different regiments in
ontarioinf.units at which an officer could be commissioned full time as a
class B officer.
Surprising if true, but I only know the BC reserve environment.  The path to a
full-time position normally requires a few years of part-time Class A service
to acquire the necessary knowledge, experience, and rank, and such positions are
generally in HQ organizations, not units.  And as noted earlier, it‘s not worth
making your life out of it.  Anyone finding themself entering a third or fourth
year of full-time reserve service should probably be seriously considering
applying to the Regular Force.
Brad Sallows
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## army (21 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Juno847627709@aol.com* on *Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:39:52 EDT*
Ok. Thanks Brad and Derrick.
If anyone knows anything else, please feel free to endulge me.
                                                            -Matt
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