# So what is your opinion on saluting foreign officers?



## MAJOR_Baker (10 Aug 2004)

Just got back from Afghanistan, and I was wondering what the concensus is of the military personnel on the forum....

1. Salute foreign officers out of respect.
2. Why bother, they have funny uniforms and silly insignia.

The reason why I ask, when I was in Bosnia for SFOR2, I would make it a point to salute all higher Ranking Foreign officers especially the Russian officers.  In fact I remember opening the Door for a Russian COL and having my hand shook and back slapped.  I guess I made a friend that day.  However, when I was on Bagram AB I saw a CDN Captain, WMO, and a CPL walk right by a US Army Major General, nothing, no salute, no greeting of the day, I thought it was very disrespectful.

On a lighter note the sky didn't fall and the earth was not struck by an asteroid and maybe it was an honest mistake or they were not paying attention, but you know me....eagle eyes, spot the CADPAT anywhere


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## Born2Fly (10 Aug 2004)

As long as we're saluting allied foreign officers, I'm totally for it.


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## JBP (10 Aug 2004)

Although I haven't formally been in the military or reserves yet, in those situations or similary circumstances I would have saluted any other nation's officers. Except the enemies of course...   :

It only makes sense, increases relations between the nations' fighting forces and hopefully causes mutual feelings of respect and not animosity(sp?).

I do remember back in the day when I was in army cadets, our CO at that time had a "Shoot the shit" conversation with us newbies where he advised us to have mutual respect and proper etiquette for other units and types of cadets and thier ranks (eg. air, army, sea). He also advised us to stick together as a unit no matter what. He said if one of our fellows was to get into a fight with someone from another unit, and even if we HATED the guy from our own unit and hoped he got his ass kicked, he advised us to jump in and fight as a team. He said if we didn't stick together in any situation like that he'd personally see to it we realized why that was so important. No one in my pltn made the mistake of messing that up, we stuck together like glue.

Yes, I would say #1, Salute foreign officers out of respect

Joe


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## Infanteer (10 Aug 2004)

Saluting a higher Officer from another military is customary.   However, one must get around the various customs with the salute unique to each nations military.   For example, Canadians do not salute without headdress on.   As well, some bases and areas have a no salute policy, such as the camp I was in overseas; just makes life easier for everyone to do their daily tasks.

(PS: Sherwood, if I saw you, I would give you "the high five"   )


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## 1feral1 (10 Aug 2004)

After training with a host of nations such as Papua New Guinea, Brunei, Singapore, Malaysia, Fiji, etc, saluting commissioned officers is a custom and tradition recognised by mose civilised nations, and personally its done out of professional courtesy and respewct for their rank, and the level of professionalism is noted as one is representing his country.

I have no problem saluting foreign officers, and this goes to if they are arrogant, etc. There has been a few.

In my regiment there is a 'no salute policy' in the field, where all officers carry rifles, and you cant tell them from a enlisted man. Salutes can draw the sniper fire.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Inch (10 Aug 2004)

When I was in Moose Juice, my flight commander was a USAF Maj, you took your career in your hand if you didn't salute him.  There were also a ton of other foreign instructor pilots there, my primary instructor was a German Maj, a former Tornado driver, there were Italians, Danes, Hungarians, Singaporean students and a few other foreign types running around. We learned all their ranks and saluted everyone of them. We salute Cdn senior officers, so why not foreign ones?

http://www.rankinsignia.info/

That's a pretty helpful site, could be useful for those overseas tours. The thunder that could come down not to mention the fact that we'd look unprofessional would dictate you salute all senior officers, foreign and Cdn.

In the airforce we don't wear headdress on the flight line due to FOD so no salutes there except to the ground crew before you go flying but you've got your helmet on for that, and we also have designated no saluting zones and those vary from base to base.

Cheers


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## Infanteer (10 Aug 2004)

Here is a question.   Is saluting officers of allied armies stipulated anywhere in the QR&O's?


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## Brad Sallows (10 Aug 2004)

Not sure about QR&Os, but the Manual of Drill and Ceremonial, Ch 1 Sect 2 "Compliments":

25. Courtesy Salutes 

a. Foreign officers shall be saluted in the same manner as Canadian officers unless the circumstances clearly dictate otherwise.

b. Service members may express their respect for individual civilians by using a salute as a formal means of greeting or farewell.


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## Jungle (10 Aug 2004)

S_Baker said:
			
		

> ...when I was on Bagram AB I saw a CDN Captain, WMO, and a CPL walk right by a US Army Major General, nothing, no salute, no greeting of the day, I thought it was very disrespectful.


There is a "no salute policy" in the field or on OPS, for the same reasons mentionned by Wes. Also mentionned is the fact that we don't salute without headdress. BUT, a simple "Good day Sir" to acknowledge the presence of a senior Officer would have been appropriate.


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## Michael Dorosh (10 Aug 2004)

Looks like all the bases have been covered.  To sum up

a) regulations state the foreign officers will be saluted.  
b) Canadians don't salute while in a vehicle, orwhen  not wearing headdress.

Ladykiller Infanteer may like to know that there is still a regulation "on the books" that states specifically that "female acquaintainces" may be saluted at the discretion of uniformed (male) personnel.  Or it was the last time I checked.

If nothing else, you can impress the gals in the regimental Ladies Auxiliary with that.  I know we have. 

Oh, and a nice German tidbit for Infanteer also - in the German Army in WW II, the offering of verbal greetings were backwards to what we do.  When we salute a superior, it is customary to say "good morning/afternoon/evening/day Sir/Ma'am"  (Don't know if that is required, but it has always seemed customary to me).  The officer will usually reply with the same, or a simple thank you.  The Germans, however, were expected to remain silent, and if a greeting was offered, it would be offered by the superior, to which the junior rank was expected to return the compliment.

So yes, customs do vary.

It was worse for Fritz in World War One, when regulations demanded that he speak to superiors only with the third person.  Not "you're correct, Major," but "Herr Major is correct!"


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## Infanteer (10 Aug 2004)

Another question regarding custom.   Why is it that most Officers (that I have encountered anyways) seem to take "Sir" as the only form of address from a subordinate.   I remember being taught on basic that "Sir" or the Officer's Rank were both acceptable, however, the few times I watched troops refer to their commander as "Captain" etc, they were lightly rebuked.   I always thought address by rank seemed more professional, while "Sir" is reserved for dignitaries and strangers).


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## Michael Dorosh (10 Aug 2004)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Another question regarding custom.  Why is it that most Officers (that I have encountered anyways) seem to take "Sir" as the only form of address from a subordinate.  I remember being taught on basic that "Sir" or the Officer's Rank were both acceptable, however, the few times I watched troops refer to their commander as "Captain" etc, they were lightly rebuked.  I always thought address by rank seemed more professional, while "Sir" is reserved for dignitaries and strangers).



You posted while I was typing!  Look back two posts.

To answer your question - I've noted some funny things along these lines, too.  I think it is people interpreting things differently.  I remember seeing a whole batch of officers and MWOs standing with our RSM.  So to get his attention I said "Excuse me RSM", because "sir" would have got the whole group to turn around.  He never said anything but I was taken aside later by a junior officer and told that it was always "sir".  

Incidentally, the group form of "sir" is not "sirs" but "gentlemen" - I wonder how many officers actually know that, I'll bet at least one person on this forum has been jacked up for using the correct "gentlemen" rather than "excuse me, sirs..."


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## Jarnhamar (11 Aug 2004)

Anytime i salute I usually start to say Good morning/afternoon sir before i salute just so the officer actually notices me and and that im saluting.

I've always found saluting an officer from another country (Say bosnian russian whatever) makes the officer look good infront of his troops and probably strokes their ego a little. If you call a group of 20 canadian soldiers to attention to salute a bosnian LT or captian when they walk by, the next time you see them their your best friend and pretty helpful.


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## Infanteer (11 Aug 2004)

> To answer your question - I've noted some funny things along these lines, too.   I think it is people interpreting things differently.   I remember seeing a whole batch of officers and MWOs standing with our RSM.   So to get his attention I said "Excuse me RSM", because "sir" would have got the whole group to turn around.   He never said anything but I was taken aside later by a junior officer and told that it was always "sir".



I know I'm picking flyshit here, but I've seen it the other way as well.   I always called my old CSM "Sergeant Major" (except on Parade; "Sir just expedites things...) and I think he liked it that way.   It seemed to grant the respect due to the position better then a paltry "sir."   As well, the guys from 2 Vandoo we replaced were all addressing their Senior NCO's and Officers by rank (in French).

The point is, does someone have the authority to give you shit for doing so when it clearly says on the sheet they give you on your first day of Basic Training that addressing a superior by their rank is appropriate and acceptable (Don't call me sir, I work for a living....)



> Incidentally, the group form of "sir" is not "sirs" but "gentlemen" - I wonder how many officers actually know that, I'll bet at least one person on this forum has been jacked up for using the correct "gentlemen" rather than "excuse me, sirs..."



I can only imagine.   "Gentlemen" sounds a little too informal, and would probably ruffle the feathers of those who take themselves too seriously....



> I've always found saluting an officer from another country (Say bosnian russian whatever) makes the officer look good infront of his troops and probably strokes their ego a little. If you call a group of 20 canadian soldiers to attention to salute a bosnian LT or captian when they walk by, the next time you see them their your best friend and pretty helpful.



The Bosnians have Officers?!?   I thought they just picked up the AK and the Sliv and went from there....


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## Ex-Dragoon (11 Aug 2004)

I have no problems saluting any officer of any nationality although sometimes you look have to look hard. For the navy we also have to pipe the side for command grade officers which can be tricky if unfamiliar with the rank insignia of that country.


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## atticus (11 Aug 2004)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Another question regarding custom.   Why is it that most Officers (that I have encountered anyways) seem to take "Sir" as the only form of address from a subordinate.   I remember being taught on basic that "Sir" or the Officer's Rank were both acceptable, however, the few times I watched troops refer to their commander as "Captain" etc, they were lightly rebuked.



On my basic I remember we were taught very early in the course that we could call officers by rank or sir but about half way through the course the base OC wanted to inspect us and he was called by his rank by a few different privates. We got yelled at for that for a good 15 minutes by the very MCpl who taught us it was okay to call officers by rank or sir. Seemed kinda confusing to me but after that I always call officers "Sir".


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## Inch (11 Aug 2004)

We don't tend to be very high strung in the airforce, MWOs and CWOs are called chief here in Shearwater, probably due to the navy influence from across the harbour, majors are called maj everywhere I've been, the DCO is called sir or XO(in Shearwater, again from the navy types). Every FE or AESOp that I've run into I call by their first name and they do the same to me in certain settings (ie in aircraft or when no "grown ups" are around, just to keep each other out of sh*t).  MCpls and up tend to understand that even if they're calling me by my first name, I'm still higher in the chain of command and lawful orders aren't to be questioned.  Cpl's and Pte's I'm a little more careful about who I introduce myself to by my first name.

Don't get me wrong, the army and the navy aren't the same way between officer's and NCM's, I understand their reasoning, but that's how we operate in the air force.

Cheers


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## Garry (11 Aug 2004)

You don't salute the Officer, you salute the Commission.


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## combat_medic (11 Aug 2004)

I think that saluting foreign officers is not only a good idea, it's a matter of respect. However, the difficulty arises when you can't really recognize the insignia. When I was tasked in Shilo, there were a few batteries of American Artillery there, so there were Yanks everywhere. There were posters up on most walls in the shacks and the mess of the rank insignia of both the Canadian and American forces, and courtesies were expected of everyone. The problem with that, is the tiny black rank pin on the centre of the American headdress is so small and dark that by the time you can identify it, it's probably too late for a salute anyway. We all made an effort, but I don't think anyone was offended if they got left out.

I do know one case, however, of some guys who were in Ft Lewis (or maybe it was Yakima) and got jacked up for not saluting an officer indoors with their headdress off. It took some explaining to clear it up, but I think it shows that we shouldn't be as rigid in the enforcement of courtesies, as each military is different.


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## dutchie (11 Aug 2004)

An interesting tid-bit I noted in the regs as posted earlier: it does not state CF pers are to salute allied officers only. So I guess we have to salute 'enemy' officers as well? I seem to remember seeing documentary footage of WW2 where German officers are saluted by the Allies, and vice versa.

Oh, and I don't salute cadet officers - I know we're supposed to, but I don't. They can try and jack me up, if they like.   :threat:


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Aug 2004)

Caeser said:
			
		

> An interesting tid-bit I noted in the regs as posted earlier: it does not state CF pers are to salute allied officers only. So I guess we have to salute 'enemy' officers as well? I seem to remember seeing documentary footage of WW2 where German officers are saluted by the Allies, and vice versa.
> 
> Oh, and I don't salute cadet officers - I know we're supposed to, but I don't. They can try and jack me up, if they like.   :threat:



I do believe "enemy" officers are entitled to courtesy.  When you are captured, you must give your rank to the enemy, and the various conventions and agreements outline different treatment for officers than NCMs, or at least used to.


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## CSS Type (11 Aug 2004)

You mean we no longer salute without headdress?

What is that move you make .. checking your arms at your sides, straightening up, and acknowledging the person. I thought that was saluting without headdress and it was also to be used when in civilian attire.

 :-\


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## RCA (11 Aug 2004)

Equation -

You Salute commissioned officers

OCdts are not commissioned officers

Ergo.....

As to the w/o headdress, you don't have to check your arms, and you should already be straightened up, the salute is in the acknowledgment.

And   you salute all commissioned officers of countries recognized by Canada.

As to the address of by rank or Sir, that is a personal reference of the addressee. Some RSMs prefer RSM over sir. You tend to find out pretty quick. All the correct form of address are in the "book".


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## Neill McKay (11 Aug 2004)

Caeser said:
			
		

> Oh, and I don't salute cadet officers - I know we're supposed to, but I don't.



Why not?


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## D-n-A (11 Aug 2004)

Neill McKay said:
			
		

> Why not?



A lot of soldiers don't salute CIC officers, because many don't think that there real officers. And we don't have to, from what I was taught, you don't have to salute CICs unless they hold a rank of Major and above.


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## Devlin (11 Aug 2004)

Wesley you should enjoy this one...

I was on course in Gagetown and was in the J7 building waiting to go in to speak to the course Warrant (never a good thing while on course). As I was standing there sh1tt1ng a brick, an Aussie LCol ( at least I believe that's what his rank was) walked right past and I had never seen the Aussie combats before so I was starring just a little. The LCol stopped and started speaking with me and I explained why I was starring still not seeing his rank just sort of shooting the sh1t with him and what not. Then I saw his rank  and snapped to and gave him the high five  followed by an apology that sounded like Bugs Bunny on crack.

He was great about it, laughed it off told me no worries mate and to have a good day.

All in all a very cool guy, quite young too for a LCol.


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Aug 2004)

Devlin said:
			
		

> Wesley you should enjoy this one...
> 
> I was on course in Gagetown and was in the J7 building waiting to go in to speak to the course Warrant (never a good thing while on course). As I was standing there sh1tt1ng a brick, an Aussie LCol ( at least I believe that's what his rank was) walked right past and I had never seen the Aussie combats before so I was starring just a little. The LCol stopped and started speaking with me and I explained why I was starring still not seeing his rank just sort of shooting the sh1t with him and what not. Then I saw his rank  and snapped to and gave him the high five  followed by an apology that sounded like Bugs Bunny on crack.
> 
> ...



And the Warrant?   We're dying to hear the rest  of it...


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## D-n-A (11 Aug 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> And the Warrant?     We're dying to hear the rest   of it...




Yea, we wonna hear about all the bad sh*t you got into


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## Michael OLeary (12 Aug 2004)

D-n-A said:
			
		

> A lot of soldiers don't salute CIC officers, because many don't think that there real officers. And we don't have to, from what I was taught, you don't have to salute CICs unless they hold a rank of Major and above.



Which is incorrect, whoever "taught" you this was wrong. Regardless of their, or your, opinion of what you comsider the quality and training of a CIC officer, they also hold the Queen's Commission, and are entitled to be paid proper respects and compliments for commissioned officers.


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## Big Bad John (12 Aug 2004)

Here at BATUS ALL officers are saluted by lower ranks no matter want nationality except in the field.  It builds cohesion between allies and other services.  The salute is a greeting between warriors.


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## 1feral1 (12 Aug 2004)

When in the CF, I saluted CIC officers to show them the respect they deserve as they do hold a commission. I also have no problem in showing support for the Australian Army Cadet Corps (233 Regional Cadet Unit - Kogarah) affiliated with my Regiment of the RAA. I have volunteered my time for giving drill in the past, and I look at the AACC as future recruits for the ADF in general.

Here in Australia CIC officers do not hold a commission, but are appointed, and I again salute giving them the respect they deserve, calling them Sir or Ma'am as required.

Respect, co-operation and understanding are a two way street, and as a professional soldier, and I am not going to diminish respect for myself, rank, Corps and Army in general. Full stop. 

Personal feelings aside any person who does not salute an officer regarless of who they are is showing not onlylack of respect, and immaturity, but contempt for the entire system.

Regards,

Wes


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## skura (12 Aug 2004)

How does the saluting system work?

Always salute those higher then you or salute anyone you see?


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## 1feral1 (12 Aug 2004)

Het BBJ, I was at BATUS about 3 wks ago, popping into Ralston (new CANEX) for some cheap Levis 501s ($49, they are $A130 here) before going on station to the new WOs and SGTs' Mess. I had not been there since 1994, and the place has changed quite a bit.

I signed the guest book in the mess, and if you are a SNCO have a squizz, its the only Australian entry in the month of July.

Cheers,

Wes


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## winchable (12 Aug 2004)

I was saluted once by accident of course...Still Definetly not my favorite part of being an officer. I'm far to humble, and have yet to get it through my head that it won't be me they salute but the commission, to enjoy a good straight salute.

Now as it was explained to me,when dealing with officers in a moderately informal setting at the rank of Captain/Lt.(N) or below it's okay to refer to them by their rank.
I just say sir most of the time because it feels right.
My biggest problem is I'm the son of an officer and as a child spent a great deal of time in an informal setting with officers, so I feel unnaturally comfortable around officers of any rank, to a point where I called admiral Davidson "Old Bean" at a bbq...mind you it wasn't a very formal setting at all, but suffice it to say mostly everyone called him sir.

To be honest, saluting is one of those issues with me that I have never quite been able to get into my head. When it's appropriate, when it's not, should I just throw up a high five for the hell of it even if it's common knowledge that one doesn't have to.


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## Big Bad John (12 Aug 2004)

Sorry wes,  I'm inthe Officers Mess.  We do seem to get a few Aussie coming through, mostly on exchange with British units.


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## skura (12 Aug 2004)

So what's a good rule of thumb then (for saluting)?


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## ags281 (12 Aug 2004)

Michael OLeary said:
			
		

> Which is incorrect, whoever "taught" you this was wrong. Regardless of their, or your, opinion of what you comsider the quality and training of a CIC officer, they also hold the Queen's Commission, and are entitled to be paid proper respects and compliments for commissioned officers.



Bang on. The commission granted to ALL officers in the CF reads exactly the same and bears the same signatures. All CF officers, from the greenest 2Lt to the CDS, hold their rank on authority of the Queen's commission irrespective of their MOC. Given that all of us in the CF have sworn loyalty to the Queen, not showing proper respect for her authority (commission) is at best very poor form. Disobeying a standing order issued on her authority (QR&O cited above) is simply not acceptable. If it has more gold than you do salute it.

As to the saluting of foreign officers, the QR&O's seem to be fairly clear. The same compliments appropriate for Canadian officers are due to foreign officers as well.

"Old bean" and you're still alive Che? Guess his aide wasn't at hand, nor any chiefs.   ;D


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## ags281 (12 Aug 2004)

skura said:
			
		

> So what's a good rule of thumb then (for saluting)?


The navy's got a good one: If it moves salute it, if it doesn't paint it.


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## Spr.Earl (12 Aug 2004)

Wheather you think it good or bad,it's Force's policy that you salute Officers of other Nations even the enemy.


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## Blindspot (12 Aug 2004)

Che said:
			
		

> My biggest problem is I'm the son of an officer and as a child spent a great deal of time in an informal setting with officers, so I feel unnaturally comfortable around officers of any rank, to a point where I called admiral Davidson "Old Bean" at a bbq...mind you it wasn't a very formal setting at all, but suffice it to say mostly everyone called him sir.


I'm also the son of an officer and spent a good amount of time in the officer's mess getting recruited as a child by officers. "He looks like he'll be a Highlander to me!" much to the chagrin of my father. And having to salute my father as a lowly private and call him sir before he ordered me to "phone your mother" was a very surreal and odd feeling.


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## Blindspot (12 Aug 2004)

Incidentally, why do some salute with palm facing forward instead of down? Is this a regimental custom? I have seen some members of the British army and Canadian vets still salute this way.


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## George Wallace (12 Aug 2004)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> Incidentally, why do some salute with palm facing forward instead of down? Is this a regimental custom? I have seen some members of the British army and Canadian vets still salute this way.



It dates way back to days long forgotten.  In the Army it was a way of maintaining a subliminal control on dress, deportment and discipline, in that it was a way of checking that your soldiers had clean hands on 'parade'.  It also was a means of showing that you hid no weapons.  Much like the Boy Scout handshake being left handed, dating back to the Boer War, where one would have to put down his shield to shake with his left hand, proving that he was unarmed.

With Unification of the Armed Forces in the Hellier Regime, the Canadian Army and RCAF adopted the Navy salute, while the Navy adopted the new rank system (temporarily).  The Navy never worried about clean hands, so hid the dirt from the officers on the deck.

Fact or fiction...probably a bit of both.

GW


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## Michael Dorosh (12 Aug 2004)

You are all wrong on why we salute officers.

We do it to remind them of their responsibilities.  ;D

As for rules of thumb, and commissioned officer higher in rank than you rates a salute, but if you see them frequently during the day, once at the start of the work day and once at the end is sufficient, not every time you seem them.  So if you're passing the same officer, say, at the armoury 10 times a night, once the first time you see him, and then if you see him on the way out the door at the end of the night, fine but you don't "have" to the other 9 times.


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## Ex-Dragoon (12 Aug 2004)

ags281 said:
			
		

> The navy's got a good one: If it moves salute it, if it doesn't paint it.



News to me...the navy is big on rendering proper compliments. The only thing we do different then the army is we are more ceremonial.


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## pbi (12 Aug 2004)

Since saluting is a common mark of military respect in most armies worthy of  the name, I see nothing wrong with saluting foreign officers. Anyway, in our Army a salute has nothing to do with the person wearing the rank (they may not personally be worthy of any respect at all....) but has everything to do with acknowledging HM commission that the officer has been granted. 

One practice that has crept into our Army, which is ridiculous and disgraceful, is the practice of an officer saying "Thank  You" when being saluted. This silliness implies that a) the salute is "for" the particular officer; or b) that it is an optional act that should be marked with gratitude. It is neither, and this pompous behaviour should cease. Our last Commander here in LFWA tried to stamp it out, but it seems to be difficult to eradicate.

Cheers.


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## Jack Neilson (12 Aug 2004)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
Incidentally, why do some salute with palm facing forward instead of down? Is this a regimental custom? I have seen some members of the British army and Canadian vets still salute this way. 

The Canadian Army and RCAF used the palm salute.   Many vets who served prior to unification prefer this form when it is appropriate (wearing headress on Remembrance Day etc.)   Many of us were quite distressed at Hellier's experiment.   I remember the day unification officially took place and part of the ceremony was the final raising of the Corps flag, its lowering and the raising of the new one.   The drill was to salute the old flag with the Army salute and the new one with the CF   salute.   Our RSM demonstrated his thoughts by using the Army salute for both flags.   
VVV


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## clasper (12 Aug 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> One practice that has crept into our Army, which is ridiculous and disgraceful, is the practice of an officer saying "Thank   You" when being saluted. This silliness implies that a) the salute is "for" the particular officer; or b) that it is an optional act that should be marked with gratitude. It is neither, and this pompous behaviour should cease. Our last Commander here in LFWA tried to stamp it out, but it seems to be difficult to eradicate.



I don't have a problem with an officer saying "Thank You" to acknowledge a salute.  You probably just wished him/her a good day, and a friendly thank you can be appropriate.  If an officer happens to be a pompous ass, he/she will behave pompously when receiving a salute, regardless of the phrase used.


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## Michael Dorosh (12 Aug 2004)

Jack Neilson said:
			
		

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Quote
> Incidentally, why do some salute with palm facing forward instead of down? Is this a regimental custom? I have seen some members of the British army and Canadian vets still salute this way.
> 
> ...



I just love stories about RSMs who think they are bigger than the Army.  I've heard a similar one of an RSM who had to salute a female officer on parade- she was the adjutant of the unit, the first female adjutant, and the RSM made sure to say as he was saluting words to the effect "I really hate doing this."   Her response, apparently, was "Tough shit, sergeant major."

But at least he rendered a proper salute.  The one in your example should have been charged; what a magnificent example of discipline he must have set.


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## SpinDoc (12 Aug 2004)

What's the rule of thumb/accepted practice for saluting amongst junior officers?  I remember being discouraged saluting Lt's when I was a green 2Lt and was vaguely told to salute Capt's if they hold a field position (like the adjt or Coy OC).

I remember in Gagetown, some poor fresh OCdts (and 2Lts) called the Coy OC a "Warrant" -- because the OC was a British major and had a crown as his rank.  :-D

I seem to recall from movies such as Bridge Over River Kwai, To End All Wars, etc that senior officers, even if they are the enemy, are saluted.  Maybe even in the last ep of Band of Brothers too.


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## ags281 (12 Aug 2004)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> News to me...the navy is big on rendering proper compliments. The only thing we do different then the army is we are more ceremonial.



I think it originally came from the US navy. Seems to have been adopted as universal navy sarcasm by some though as I've heard a number of our guys quoting it too.



			
				pbi said:
			
		

> One practice that has crept into our Army, which is ridiculous and disgraceful, is the practice of an officer saying "Thank You" when being saluted. This silliness implies that a) the salute is "for" the particular officer; or b) that it is an optional act that should be marked with gratitude. It is neither, and this pompous behaviour should cease. Our last Commander here in LFWA tried to stamp it out, but it seems to be difficult to eradicate.



I always try to use "good morning/afternoon/evening" or a similar greeting when saluted, but once in a while "thank you" just slips out. There's no pomposity vested in the phrase or anything, it's just the words that came out when acknowledging the NCM (I'm too lowly and insignificant to be saluted by officers ). When I first started getting saluted, "thank you" seemed a natural response, as most people saluting me have far more experience than I do and I had not realized it might be taken the way you mention. Ever since this possibility was brought up by a certain CWO though (that "conversation" was fun) I've been making an effort to avoid "thank you"


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## Marine837M (12 Aug 2004)

In a disciplined service of any kind where upon an officer holds a commission you salute the rank,regardless of what force,service or nationality that officer holds a rank in....I believe its important and a sign of respect.

Marine837M


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## Michael OLeary (12 Aug 2004)

SpinDoc said:
			
		

> What's the rule of thumb/accepted practice for saluting amongst junior officers?   I remember being discouraged saluting Lt's when I was a green 2Lt and was vaguely told to salute Capt's if they hold a field position (like the adjt or Coy OC).



Technically, any officer is expected to pay compliments to, saluting as appropriate, his/her superiors, and that includes 2Lts saluting Lts, etc. Within many units there are local customs that subaltern officers (2Lt/Lt) will not normally salute one another. In rare cases this may have been extended to include Captains, less those with field grade appointments (OCs, Adjutants, Ops Officers), but I've seldom seen this upheld deligently.

Officers on parade will salute in accordance with the dictates of the parade aappointments therefore a captain Company 2IC will salute a captain Company Commander on handing over a company on parade in recognition of the Commission and senior appointment. For example, the Regimental Standing Orders of The RCR states "Captains [on parade] will salute the Adjutant" (2003 Interim Edition, Art 705)

In The RCR it was once customary for an officer to salute on entering another officer's office, recognizing the Commission and also as a method of greeting. I don't know how closely this practice is being followed these days but Regimental Standing Orders still states "Officers will salute when entering the office of another Officer" (2003 Interim Edition, Art 705)

1


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## Jarnhamar (12 Aug 2004)

I remember my platoon commander getting a kick out of seeing NSE NCOs or junior officers salute me when i would walk anywhere on camp carrying my laptop in a case. (looks like a briefcase, also i often carried a pistol). 

I always look at someone when walking past to smile say hello and if they are an officer salute them. I figure some people thought i was watching them to see if they salute or not and decided not to risk it. It always freaked me out, i was just waiting for someone to turn around upon seeing the mighty two chevrons  kick my ass


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## 1feral1 (12 Aug 2004)

Back in the CF in the early 1980's when all ranks in combats wore their rank on slipons on the epaulettes, I was in Shilo, and a young group of German conscripts saluted us, as our CPL chevs may have been looking like CAPT rank to them, as they must have been taught to salute anyone with rank on the shoulder.

Anyways we saluted back, as we did not have a clue what rank they were either.

wierd but true.

Cheers,

Wes


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## D-n-A (12 Aug 2004)

skura said:
			
		

> How does the saluting system work?
> 
> Always salute those higher then you or salute anyone you see?



Salute all officers(except officer cadets). Never salute a NCM/NCO.

If you see bars or maple leafs, salute.


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## Scott (12 Aug 2004)

I found that the Officers in Greenwood were especially helpful. If you were approaching one and couldn't quite make out the rank they would always say something like, "Lovely day isn't it?", my hand always snapped up if I heard that, it never did me wrong.


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## Ex-Dragoon (12 Aug 2004)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> Back in the CF in the early 1980's when all ranks in combats wore their rank on slipons on the epaulettes, I was in Shilo, and a young group of German conscripts saluted us, as our CPL chevs may have been looking like CAPT rank to them, as they must have been taught to salute anyone with rank on the shoulder.
> 
> Anyways we saluted back, as we did not have a clue what rank they were either.
> 
> ...



Yeah we have experienced that as well in the navy...usually from the USN when we wear our white shirts and peak caps.


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## Spartan (12 Aug 2004)

Just curious but isn't it more of an air force tradition that junior officers don't salute each other while on base?


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## 1feral1 (13 Aug 2004)

I have to confess I have never seen two LTs salute each other  ;D


 :boring:

Wes


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## ibilola (14 Aug 2004)

Would you salute a US Warrant Officer? The junior warrant rank (WO1) in the US Army is an officer but is appointed by Warrant rather than Commission


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## Infanteer (14 Aug 2004)

I believe Warrant Officer 2 and above are Commissioned and are saluted by American Enlisted Troops and NCO's, so I would see saluting one as appropriate.


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## pbi (14 Aug 2004)

On the issue of not saluting Captains, when I was a subaltern in 3PP and later in 1 PP (at that time subby being up to a Capt with less than three years in rank), we did NOT salute Capts unless they were the Adjt or the OC of a company. We didn't call them "Sir" either. This was a purely internal thing, as I found out to my embarassment on another base when I strolled past a couple of Capts without saluting.

On the US WO thing, I believe that they do not actually have commissions: they have warrants instead. They are usually called "sir" by those below them, or "Mr" by officers. (In the Marines a WO is sometimes referred to as "Marine Gunner"-not to be confused with "Gunnery Sgt" which is the USMC equivalent of what we in the Canadian Army call a WO). The US WO forms a sort of class between NCOs and Officers (they start out as NCOs) and they go to the O Club not the E Club. We really don't have a direct equivalent, as we follow the Commonwealth system in which a WO holds status as a higher form of NCO, not a lower form of officer. Cheers.


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## Slim (14 Aug 2004)

ibilola said:
			
		

> Would you salute a US Warrant Officer? The junior warrant rank (WO1) in the US Army is an officer but is appointed by Warrant rather than Commission



I ran into that situation while working with U.S. Army helocopter crews. Their pilots are all Warrant Officers, which are commisioned officers (technical) in the U.S. Army. I was politely corrected by a fellow U.S. soldier who had worked with the Canadian Forces and understood the confusion.


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## devil39 (14 Aug 2004)

S_Baker said:
			
		

> Just got back from Afghanistan, and I was wondering what the concensus is of the military personnel on the forum....
> 
> 1. Salute foreign officers out of respect.
> 2. Why bother, they have funny uniforms and silly insignia.
> ...



My experience, in not so recent Afghanistan, was that Canadian soldiers would salute officers of all nationalities, as would US Marines.   The US Army were the worst offenders for failing to salute.

Then again this was in the relative early days, just as the Div decided it was necessary to have a saluting policy.


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## ibilola (15 Aug 2004)

Must be confusing! I Wonder how many CWOs in the Canadian Armed Forces have been saluted by US Servicemen by mistake? Incidentally in the British Armed Forces, Queens Regulations require junior ranks to address all WOs as 'Sir' but they are not saluted. Officers would address a WO by his appointment title e.g. RSM or by the generic 'Mister' although that tends to be used more in the RAF and RN. You'd be putting your life in danger if you referred to someone as 'Warrant'!


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## 1feral1 (15 Aug 2004)

In the Australian   8) Army, there are two WO ranks. WO2 and WO1, and WO1 being the higher. Warrants are still given out in a frame, and here both WO2 and WO1 are addressed as Sir by ranks lower. Commissioned officers will address them as Warrant Officer, or by the position they fill such as ASM, CSM WSM, SSM, RSM etc.   

I can remember I   ;D called one crusty old WO1 a 'Warrant' one day after arriving to my first unit (103 Fd Wksp out of Leichhardt NSW), and I got shat   :warstory: on supremely, as calling a WO2 or WO1 a Warrant, well is just not on, and its never done. I have come to the conclusion its a Canadian thing to address a WO as Warrant or Sir.

The using of the rank 'Warrant' was a hard habit to break after over 18yrs in the CF. 

Regards,

Wes


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## Gunner (15 Aug 2004)

> However, when I was on Bagram AB I saw a CDN Captain, WMO, and a CPL walk right by a US Army Major General, nothing, no salute, no greeting of the day, I thought it was very disrespectful.



Sherwood, sorry I didn't get up to Bagram to see you.  You should, of course, salute foreign officers and when other national anthems are playing.  The reason they probably didn't salute is Canada has a no saluting policy as a force protection measure.  If the US doesn't have one, why didn't the sr US offr on my camp salute our Col?   ???
Cheers


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## Sailing Instructor (6 Sep 2004)

I got my first taste of saluting foreign officers during my first walk to the library at CFLRS (right in the middle of the second-language school, which has numberous officers walking around).  At first I didn't know what to think, seeing all these stars and colourful piping but I soon realised that they are probably not NCOs and the saluting got returns, so I obviously did the right thing.

Speaking of accidental salutes, a fellow cadet on IAP this past summer was saluted by none other than a sargent-major!  And he was wearing the full 'I'm obviously and Officer-cadet' insignia of the paper nametag, the extra green stripe on the OD epaulette, and the OD brassard.  He returned the salute of course, since we were always taught that it was very rude not to return a salute (whether or not you deserved it).

And as for 'salute the commission, not the individual:'  very sound advice, but a sargent-major once said to my IAP course (and I paraphrase): 'When you get commissioned and join your unit, you'll be saulted by NCMs because of your commission; as a leader you want them to salute _you_ because they respect you as a leader--not purely because of your commission.

By the way, there are about a million exceptions to any salutation rules so I offer this bit of information: a salute is merely a formalised greeting used within the military.  It is no different from any salutation civilians give to one another in that it acknowledges common respect for the other person.

PS. The CF Manual of Drill and Ceremonial says nothing about checking one's arms at one's sides when in civvies.  A simple 'good-day, sir[/rank]' given with a look in the person's eyes is proper.  I have a feeling the arm-check is similar to the shoulder-height arm swing....


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## Spc_Cameron (6 Sep 2004)

this is what's re-enforced in my Unit.. you are a member of your nations military, the uniform you wear, your manners, right down to how much effort and time you spend on your boots. everyone judges you  and  your country by your military profesionalism. be proud of who your are the military that you represent, salute foriegn officers, foreign flags ( when the occasion presents itself , national anthem and all that ) trust me you'll make an impression. actually Canadians already have one up on Americans, y'all  already known as being to damn polite .

on a side note I go out of my way to Salute the Canadian Liason officer here, have even been stopped and talked to him on occasion... got a badass coin for my efforts. It's getting so he knows me by name, doesn't hurt that I'm from Canada I guess.


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## pbi (6 Sep 2004)

Here at Bagram the US forces have a very strict saluting policy. Officers and US WOs are always saluted, regardless, except indoors. The main street of the base is a veritable flurry of salutes. The US types will happily salute foreign officers if they are able to recognize the rank badge, or if they know you personally. Remember that there are nearly 40 nations here and some country's officer badges look like some other countries' NCO badges and vice versa. I make a point of saluting all US officers senior to me, and all non-US types whose rank badges I can figure out. To me it's just courtesy to the people whose base I live on and who I work with every day.

The Canadian Contingent, on the other hand , pursue a "field saluting policy" ie: no saluting. I understand fully why they do this,, but when folks from Julian come up here (to go to the PX, etc) it makes me a bit uncomfortable to see them walk past US officers without saluting. But, it is the right of the Canadian Contingent commander to set policies as he sees fit.  Cheers.


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## AndrewWGrieve (6 Sep 2004)

Regarding saluting between 2Lts, Lts, Capts, and OCdts, we don't salute at my unit unless someone is Major or above, Coy Comd, or Adj, or at least we aren't supposed to.  So the OCdt here isn't supposed to salute the Capts unless they hold a Coy Comd position.  Then again, in reality most people salute someone Capt or above, regardless of their appointment because it's easier.


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## Acorn (7 Sep 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> On the US WO thing, I believe that they do not actually have commissions: they have warrants instead. They are usually called "sir" by those below them, or "Mr" by officers. (In the Marines a WO is sometimes referred to as "Marine Gunner"-not to be confused with "Gunnery Sgt" which is the USMC equivalent of what we in the Canadian Army call a WO). The US WO forms a sort of class between NCOs and Officers (they start out as NCOs) and they go to the O Club not the E Club. We really don't have a direct equivalent, as we follow the Commonwealth system in which a WO holds status as a higher form of NCO, not a lower form of officer. Cheers.



The US WO system is a bit strange to us. A Warrant Officer 1 (WO1) has a Warrant, not a commission. The next level is Chief Warrant Officer 2 (CW2), which is commissioned (as a personal anecdote: when I got my crown a US officer of my acquaintance welcomed me to the commissioned world - the CW2 that worked for him provided the necessary correction). A CW4 or 5 is accorded field grade status, of a sort, but they are not "Major/Colonel equivalents." As far as I know they are all accorded a salute, and can be called "sir." CWs are usually called "Chief" though, by NCOs or commissioned officers. "Mister" is also used.

The US Army Warrant Officers form their own Branch withing the US Army - whatever their specialities they are part of the WO Branch (not Armour, Infantry, Intelligence, Ordnance, whatever). They are "neither fish nor fowl" (not NCO nor commissioned) but are accorded the privledges of commissioned officers - they are sauted by subordinates, entitled to officer quarters and messing and wear officer-cut uniforms. They cannot hold command, but in some specialities they are often section heads.

By the way, any WOs on ops/ex with Brits had to deal with being saluted? With the CADPAT rank worn on a slip-on on the front of the uniform the WO rank is very close to the Brit major. Brit WO's wear the rank on a wrist-band (WO2 a crown, WO1 a coat-of-arms if I'm not mistaken.)

Acorn


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## pbi (7 Sep 2004)

Here in Bagram the Brits I see are wearing their ranks on a chest slip-on, the same way we do. I don't see them wearing the wrist rank. Maybe this is unique to their desert tan uniform. Cheers.


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## Spc_Cameron (7 Sep 2004)

> The Canadian Contingent, on the other hand , pursue a "field saluting policy" ie: no saluting. I understand fully why they do this,, but when folks from Julian come up here (to go to the PX, etc) it makes me a bit uncomfortable to see them walk past US officers without saluting. But, it is the right of the Canadian Contingent commander to set policies as he sees fit.  Cheers.



 I can remeber getting hemmed up at FOB Raider when a "young " Capt. walked by and we failed to salute.. well coming from FOB Gator , not more than 1800 m away we had a strict no salute policy.
my buddy always the smart asss requested if it would be alright if after we saluted that we hit the deck, 
the young Capt ask what the hell that was suppose to mean , 
 to which my buddy said. hell sir if you want a sniper salute thats on you... but im not getting my ass shot off for military customs no matter what your regs say.
when you're right you're right.


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## Bzzliteyr (7 Sep 2004)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Looks like all the bases have been covered. To sum up
> 
> a) regulations state the foreign officers will be saluted.
> b) Canadians don't salute while in a vehicle, or when not wearing headdress.



According the Drill manual, you might be wrong on that second point Michael:


33. Vehicles .
Compliments shall be paid to passengers in
staff cars bearing distinguishing flags or
general officer car plates.
b. When wearing headdress, the senior
passenger in a staff car and the passenger in
the front seat of other vehicles shall salute.
When not wearing headdress they shall
A-PD-201-000/PT-000
return compliments by sitting at attention
(see also A-AD-265-000/AG-001, CF Dress
Instructions, Chapter 2, Section 3,
paragraph 12).

This one is only known to me because I was briefing my students about it the other day.. interesting, no?


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## Sailing Instructor (7 Sep 2004)

While doing my clearing in to 17 Wing, I was accidentally saluted--twice.  I returned them because I figured I had no business telling MCpls that I was a NCdt.  (The worst part is that I was surprised on both salutes and therefore gave a half-assed return, which makes me look like an idiot who forgot all his drill.)  

Afterwards, I was asked my rank by a receptionist who said he had a hard time telling the 1/4" lace from the 1/2" lace. So I now wonder if this is a common occurrence within the CF?  How does one get around being incorrectly saluted?  Perhaps if I was wearing my cornflake like I should, rather than the fouled anchor.... :


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## IWannaBePPCLI (7 Sep 2004)

Sailing Istructor.. If you are wrongly saluted. (i am not CF but this is my idea anyways)  would you not just salute back and then either address he person to kindly corect them.. or just wear your Cornflake..? lol

hope you find all of your answers!!


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## Acorn (7 Sep 2004)

pbi said:
			
		

> Here in Bagram the Brits I see are wearing their ranks on a chest slip-on, the same way we do. I don't see them wearing the wrist rank. Maybe this is unique to their desert tan uniform. Cheers.



What's the difference between the WO and Maj rank slip-on?

Acorn


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## PuckChaser (7 Sep 2004)

There's a brit major at CFSCE, he's the B SQN commander I believe. His slip-on rank is smaller than our warrant rank, thats the only way we could tell. 

Also, I was told on my basic that you are permitted, but not required to pay compliments to an Ocdt. Anyone else hear of the same, or were my instructors out to lunch?


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## ghazise (7 Sep 2004)

My Boot Camp Company Commander described Saluting is saying "I am a warrior and I choose not to kill you"  

So it really doesn't matter which country they are from


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## pbi (7 Sep 2004)

A salute is a gesture of military respect, so you really aren't restricted  from anything as much as you are directed to salute certain people/things. However, since the purpose in saluting a commissioned officer is to honour the Queen's Commission that he carries, not the person carrying it, it probably isn't appropriate to salute an OCdt. Cheers.


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## portcullisguy (8 Sep 2004)

Acorn said:
			
		

> What's the difference between the WO and Maj rank slip-on?
> 
> Acorn



In the CF, a Major only wears crowns on ceremonial dress, and then on the shoulders, I believe.  In combats, a major wears the three stripes (thick, thin, thick).  The WO wears the crowns in both orders of dress.  However, in ceremonial dress, the crown is low on the sleeve (as it is for MWO and CWO).

Personally, if I recognize a foreign officer as the equivalent of one of our commissioned officers, and I am wearing headdress, I will salute.  If I am not wearing headdress, I will come to attention (or check my arms if marching) and say something along the lines of "Good morning, sir".

The only time I have not called officers "sir" is when we are either speaking informally ("Lieutenant, I could kick your ass at poker anyday."), or I am addressing one particular officer who is amongst other officers ("Capt Bloggins, were you looking for me, sir?") , or when I am referring to an officer in the third person ("Mr Jones went into the BOR, Sergeant", or "Major Smith was looking for you, Warrant.").

The whole "don't call me sir, I work for a living," line is a bunch of outdated nonsense.

Once upon a time, when soldiers were strictly divided along class lines, officers (commissioned and senior noncommissiond) were considered to be "gentlemen" and other ranks' were not (because they laboured).  In Victorian times, a labourer was addressed as "Jones" or "Bob Jones", and NEVER as "Mr Bob Jones" or "Sir".  In the military, since you have a rank, you are "Private Jones" or "Corporal Jones"... or simply "Jones".  However, officers were always at least "Mr Smith" and usually "Lieutenant Smith" or "Sir" because they were gentlemen, and gentlemen were not required to labour and could therefor be addressed appropriately.  You can stop calling them "Mr" when they achieve field rank (Major and above).

Nowadays, most officers work for a living, as does everyone else.  A gentleman is no long someone who does not labour, but rather a person who holds themselves in a gentle manner, ie they are courteous, polite, and well mannered.

The military has its ranking system still, to enforce its own standards.  But when I am at my civvy job (customs officer), people call me sir all the time, and it is perfectly acceptable, even though I "work for a living".  They are being polite and showing respect.

To call officers "sir" still is not reflective of their status as either working or not for a living, but rather respecting their rank and/or the Queen's commission.

Those are my two cents, please treat them kindly.


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## Cliffy433 (9 Sep 2004)

My turn to lay into this poor, abused horse...

In Banja Luka, BiH - I got lucky, recognized a Brit Offr rank and saluted.  She was so impressed/surprised that I caught it she stopped, and thanked me personally for my diligence in learning other nation's ranks.

In Ft McCoy WI - we asked about the whole "saluting of WOs thing" - we were told this: you can, and get away with it because you're not American and not expected to know - the highest levels of WO are commissioned, but since they tend to be "grizzled old veterans" from the ranks, they prefer you don't.  Either will suffice, you're a Canadian, you'll never get in too much sh*t.  As for the officer's, they were again very appreciative of foreign soldier's doing their homework.

In Shilo, MB - a group of us were walking along, and passed, what we later learned was the German equivalent of Sgt.  As he passed, he saluted us, and the snr pers among us returned the salute.  We later learned that, generally, German soldiers will salute ALL soldiers of other nations out of respect for all soldiers.  It also covers their a$$ with foreign officers - genius!

In Wpg, MB - I was attached to 2VP when CWO Surridge became RSM.  In his inaugural address to the troops, we were directed to address him as RSM or Sgt-Maj, because, after all, he earned it.  I thought it was fair and sound enough advice.  To this day I use the words RSM, CSM, and Sgt-Maj like salutes - beginning and end of the day, with "Sir" throughout.  It's well received.

Finally, to make yet another lengthy post on another lengthy thread longer, it's in the Regs, it's courteous, it really doesn't take a great deal of effort - salute foreign officers.

It's not bag-licking, brown-nosing, or ass-kissing.  It's courtesy.  You want some?  Give some... karma can be a real bitch.


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## Acorn (9 Sep 2004)

portcullisguy said:
			
		

> In the CF, a Major only wears crowns on ceremonial dress, and then on the shoulders, I believe.   In combats, a major wears the three stripes (thick, thin, thick).   The WO wears the crowns in both orders of dress.   However, in ceremonial dress, the crown is low on the sleeve (as it is for MWO and CWO).



Thread lost: I was referring to the difference in the Brit rank slip-ons, as below it was mentioned that Brit WOs also wear a rank slip-on on the front of their uniform (as we do with CADPAT). I was wondering how they tell the difference between a WO crown and a Maj crown.


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## The_Falcon (10 Sep 2004)

To answer your question Acorn, I spent about an hour scouring the net to find an answer (hopefully, a picture).   I found pictures of Major slip-ons, but not for WO2 (ie a CSM).   But i found this thread on a Brit Army msg board.   http://www.arrse.co.uk/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1244&sid=ac5243b68f4d53e53fd6f657e516e94f   It seems even our Brit friends have trouble telling the difference.   From what I gathered the only difference is the size and placement of the crown.   Major is small and at the bottom,   WO2 large and in the middle.   I like their various "methods" for spotting the difference.


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## Acorn (10 Sep 2004)

Brilliant! though the "sack of frogs bungeed up the middle" could describe some of our WO/MWO/CWO folks.

One observation is their complaint about camo "slides" (slip-ons) being hard to read. I've found the same problem with CADPAT. Also, is anyone else a bit put off/thankful about the location of CADPAT rank on our female soldiers? Finally, an excuse for looking that direction.

Acorn


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## Acorn (10 Sep 2004)

BTW, as an aside about appearance:

Sgt Maj (while saluting, of course): "Sir, you look like 10 lb of sh*t stuffed in a 5 lb sack and tied off in the middle."

Capt: "Wibble?"

Acorn


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## 1feral1 (10 Sep 2004)

Acorn said:
			
		

> What's the difference between the WO and Maj rank slip-on?
> 
> Acorn



Slowly but surely the Australian Army is converting to 'slip on' rank for ORs, SGTs and WOs similar to the CF and UK forces. Officers have used the slip on system for years on DPCUs, and new uniforms will have a one 'epaulette' system like the CF and UK forces. All ranks currently use 'slip on' rank only worn on the polar fleece jacket, and the newest version of desert AUSCAM DPCUs.

The MAJ crown is smaller than the WO2 crown and at the bottom of the slip on, and the WO2 crown also has a sewn 'subdued' square aroud it the same colour as the crown, and is placed in the centre of the slip on. This just confirms there will be no confusion. WO1 rank is that of the coat of arms of Australia.

Cheers,

Wes


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## ibilola (12 Sep 2004)

The obvious solution in the British Army would be to use the small crown for Major and crown in wreath for all WO2s (it's already used for the RQMS appointment).


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## ModlrMike (12 Sep 2004)

British Maj crowns are usually full colour, smaller, and positioned towards the top of the slip-on. WO crowns are usually subdued, larger, and in the center of the slip-on.

You will generally stay out of trouble by saluting all of your own officers and those foreign ranks that you know. As you learn more, you will salute more. 

One would think that with all the cross border television and movies we have in Canada, US ranks should not be that foreign to us.


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## Bartok5 (12 Sep 2004)

Saluting foreign officers is an idicator of your OWN professionalism as a Canadian soldier, Full-Stop.  

Now ask yourself if you should be saluting them.....

I cannot believe that this topic has gone back and forth for 7 pages!   What is it about simple international military courtesy that so many here don't get?!?!


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## Gayson (13 Sep 2004)

I have a question on saluting. . .

When coming to a group of officers wanting to speak to an individual are you suppose to salute all of them : Good day gentlmen and salute.  Or are you suppose to salute the highest ranking officer.

In the past I would approach the group, and once with in a few steps I would say something like Capt. so and som sir!  To distinguish himfrom the group, than come to a halt and salute.

What is the correct process for this?


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## Inch (13 Sep 2004)

You don't halt, that's why you're taught saluting on the march.  If it's a bunch of officers of the same rank, salute and say "gentlemen", if it's a bunch of officers with one outranking the others, just salute and say sir, they'll know who you're talking to.

Cheers


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## Gayson (13 Sep 2004)

I guess I wasn't specific enough in my last post.  I meant when approaching a group of officers to speak to one of them.  That'ts why I halted.

I suppose your answer would still be the same though, you salute the highest ranking officer?


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## Inch (13 Sep 2004)

Yeah, salute the highest ranking guy (or girl), then ask Capt soandso if they have a moment. Keep in mind the chain of command though, most of the time you wouldn't have a reason to talk to an officer directly unless you're passing on a message or something like that.

Cheers


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## Gayson (13 Sep 2004)

Thank you!


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## RatCatcher (14 Sep 2004)

Simple solution to this is:

1. Go to the training cell of your unit/tasking/tour and ask for a guide to foreign ranks. I received one while in Afghanistan and I was only there for a month and a half.
2. Ask the people in other countries uniform what rank they are. I did this in Afghanistan when dealing with the Germans. They were more than happy to help and asked me to help them with our ranks.  They even went for far as to teach me to properly pronounce the MCpl rank equivalent in German so I could use the proper German Rank to explain my rank.

Knowledge of other militaries does not fall into your lap, seek out knowledge, embrace the new things and grow as a soldier/sailer/airperson!


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## HollywoodHitman (18 Sep 2004)

Saluting foreign officers is without a doubt a simple indicator of professionalism as a soldier. One thing to keep in mind though, is when working in a multi-national environment, there are some militaries where saluting is not done as a rule.......The Dutch for instance. It tends to make even their most senior officers uncomfortable.......Good to learn the most basic information when working with foreign militaries.


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