# CFLRS Info



## observor 69 (16 Dec 2006)

Info posted on can.community military:

Block leave at CFLRS started yesterday with all candidates having left by 
Thursday, except for a few that will be spending the Xmas season on base. 
CFLRS is expecting to get to a max of 32 active platoons by March (with 
350+ on PAT). Its will be, and has been, extremely busy here. Another 90ish 
new instructors expected by summer, new construction in St-Jean and in 
Farnham and quick rapid take-over of the Mega by CFLRS. Most of the units in 
the Mega, including most of CFLS, will be moving to the old CMR to make room 
for us. Busy time here.


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## geo (16 Dec 2006)

350+ PAT... does that include the new "remedial PT" troops?

32 Platoons - some 1200 odd souls (+ support staff).
I can see that facilities will be stretched a wee bit for the next little while.


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## NJL (17 Dec 2006)

It would be nice if there was more CFLRS (Reg Force) besides St Jean and to a lesser extent Borden... sounds like St jean is getting pretty crowded... maybe do it like community college and have a number of CFLRS campuses through out Canada... I wouldn't mind doing reg force bmq in either Alberta or BC... I'm from NS and going out west to do bmq would be good


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## medic269 (17 Dec 2006)

I just finished there Nov. 30th and we struck lucky, we were in Farnham when the hordes of new platoons were coming in so the only real crowd we had to deal with was "G" week.  Meal lines were about 20 minutes long at peak hours.  Looks like the new recruiting campaigns are working!


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## geo (17 Dec 2006)

Some of the new recruits during their weekend's off have been doing quite the number to the local "comfort inn"...... the front desk has the MPs and QPP on speed dial.


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## Meridian (17 Dec 2006)

NJL said:
			
		

> I'm from NS and going out west to do bmq would be good



Maybe I'm missing something... but why does it matter where you do BMQ?


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## old man neri (17 Dec 2006)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Maybe I'm missing something... but why does it matter where you do BMQ?



Weather maybe?


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## GO!!! (17 Dec 2006)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Maybe I'm missing something... but why does it matter where you do BMQ?



We all know the locals are'nt all that friendly to anglos - especially ones in short hair in St Jean sur Richlieu.

English is the language of most new recruits, CFLRS is in Quebec.

I had a great time in Montreal, but I would prefer never to be posted or tasked in PQ for any length of time either, taxes, attitudes and language are all stacked against you there.


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## Meridian (17 Dec 2006)

G0 -

I hear you, but on BMQ, for a good portion of the course you don't even get to be out with the locals.... and Montreal is so close (taxi van = 10$/person), you don't have to actually -be- out with the locals ever.

Language wise, an anglo can quite easily get around Montreal without much french at all.  Plus, I'd even argue that visiting Canada's second largest city if you've never been before is probably a good to-do before you go out and see the world; particularly if you've from rural Canada. 

I can understand what you are saying about long-term postings, however.


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## old man neri (17 Dec 2006)

However the same could be argued about franco personnel being posted in english parts of the country. The reality is that you can never make a decision that will please everyone.


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## Sapper.Murray (17 Dec 2006)

Iam there now, well at BMQ on Block leave at the moment back in NS.

Its packed....and My Platoon and sister Platoon were the last 2 Platoons before Christmas, I hear we will be getting a bunch more in jan to march. Right now there are about 20-24 platoons. The next Platoon to come in will be 4 weeks behind us though so there is a decent spaceing for us, we might not be to packed in but the next Platoons to come in will be very packed.

Lunch will be a real bitch, and Breakfast already is when you have a PT run then Inspection.....bigger lines mean less time to eat...if any.


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## NJL (17 Dec 2006)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Maybe I'm missing something... but why does it matter where you do BMQ?


It doesn't really matter but I wouldn't mind seeing a part of the country I've never been (haven't traveled west of Ontario) plus I've been to the CFLRS in St Jean before (was doing BMQ but made the big mistake of VRing) and it is pretty crowded (the lineup for breakfast can get pretty long which means not much time to eat (a few minuntes if that))... not mention while it's true most instructors/support staff there are bilingual most have english as their second language and sometimes it's hard to understand what they're saying(or yelling).


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## GO!!! (17 Dec 2006)

old man neri said:
			
		

> However the same could be argued about franco personnel being posted in english parts of the country. The reality is that you can never make a decision that will please everyone.



17% of the country speaks french as a first language. I'd call the other 83% as close to "everybody" as you can get!

Meridian,

Granted, you don't spend much time there on basic, and my trips to Montreal were always a blast, I found the surrounding area to the mega quite hostile to us. Being taught by ESL instructors is not my idea of a picnic either.


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## geo (17 Dec 2006)

Sapper.Murray said:
			
		

> Lunch will be a real *****, and Breakfast already is when you have a PT run then Inspection.....bigger lines mean less time to eat...if any.



Lines do not have to be immense.  Instructors have to ensure that platoons go thru on a staggered schedule.  as an example: Plt 1 thru 4 go in at 11:30,  Plt 5 thru 8 go in at 11:50,  Plt 9 thru 12 go in at 12:10.  If there is good coordination between the training cadre and the kitchen, there is absolutely no valid reason to have immense lineups in the kitchens.

Any staff about? comments?


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## Springroll (18 Dec 2006)

Sapper.Murray said:
			
		

> Lunch will be a real bitch, and Breakfast already is when you have a PT run then Inspection.....bigger lines mean less time to eat...if any.



I am with you on that!!!

My platoon and my sister platoon are currently the most senior in the school(going into week 11 of 13). There are currently 24 platoons in house and 230 personnel on PAT. There have been many days where I have had to do without a meal just to make the next timing because of the line up reaching down to the doors that lead you into the green sector. Either the meals times need to be staggered like suggested by geo, or the timings need to be adjusted and more flexible.

The only bonus for us right now is that we head out to Farnham right after Xmas leave, so we will only have to deal with the line ups again for Grad Week only.


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## NJL (18 Dec 2006)

when I was on PAT(Sept)/re apllying with the CF in a couple months) I heard there was a rumor that PAT might be moved off the CFLRS... geeez 230 on PAT is crazy.. when I was there there was like 60-70 and even that seems like alot, the blue sectors must be pretty full...  New recruits FYI: blue sector is alot nicer than the green (rooms/pods with doors vs cubes and no doors) but with everyone being so close in the green sector helps with team bonding.


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## MdB (18 Dec 2006)

They already moved CFLS students out of the Mega to Fort St-Jean. I heard they would move the PAT platoon out (to Fort St-Jean), don't know if it's done.

Staff personnel told me that they would probably add a third time slot for meals. Currently, you have 11:35 and 12:15. That would make sense with 32 platoons. Anyway, the least time I ever had to eat was 5-7 minutes, plenty of time to eat. ;D And yes, platoons have to follow the schedule not to screw it all up.

As for schools, there's already two detachments at Borden and Valcartier. I know many go to Borden, dunno about Valcartier. Maybe a third one in Western Canada would do good. The Mega is so full the instructors have now to be in apartments in St-Jean (DND is renting all it can).


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## bluecollared (18 Dec 2006)

there's a BMQ running at CFB Gagetown as well. just one course. I know they're passed week 5 b/c they had their rifles before I left for Xmas leave.


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## Springroll (18 Dec 2006)

MdB said:
			
		

> They already moved CFLS students out of the Mega to Fort St-Jean. I heard they would move the PAT platoon out (to Fort St-Jean), don't know if it's done.



The only people that I know of that were transferred to Fort St Jean are the Officer's doing their second language training. PAT has not been moved other than up to floors 11 and 12 in the blue sector.


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## JesseWZ (18 Dec 2006)

Guess it's going to be a little different when I head back to Good Old St Jean for the second half of phase 1.


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## Gunner98 (18 Dec 2006)

Springroll,

Did you say do without a meal?  Or any meals?  Has anyone called or written their MP or asked to see a Harassment Advisor.  Skipping meals can't be healthy for all of you hard workers.  Isn't that against the Geneva Convention?

I can't remember having access to a computer when I was in Basic Training in Cornwallis.

Oh I guess that is because Commodore 64's were just coming into style in 1983.


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## Gunner98 (18 Dec 2006)

Piper,

Where have you been in the last 2 decades...
"The CF needs to spread it's school arounds better and stop trying to jam them all into one big building. Like, put the language school in a town more inviting for us to go practice our french (ASU Montreal, the whats-it-called fort in Quebec City...)"  That fort in QC is called the Citadel or La Citadelle.  

We used to have OCdt trg in Chilliwack and Borden, Recruit trg in Cornwallis and Franco trg in Saint-Jean and Cbt Arms depots all over the place.  Of course we had around 100,00 soldiers then.  Now we have several thousand PATs waiting at schools and a war going on.  

Here's a straw - one for you and one for Springroll - suck  it  up!


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## GO!!! (18 Dec 2006)

I'd take it a few steps in the other direction and say that OCdt trg and recruit trg should be common until week X, at which point they would be split into their seperate streams, (officers learning sword drill, the differnt ways the CSD applies to them) etc. 

There is little difference between the basics of drill, wearing of uniforms etc. that are taught to OCdts, and Pte.Rs, so why split them until their training requires it? The CF could recognise a significant cost savings in this manner, and lessen the strain on the senior training cadre while putting more candidates through the sausage machine that is the first 10 or so weeks of trg.


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## navymich (18 Dec 2006)

MdB said:
			
		

> They already moved CFLS students out of the Mega to Fort St-Jean. I heard they would move the PAT platoon out (to Fort St-Jean), don't know if it's done.





			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> The only people that I know of that were transferred to Fort St Jean are the Officer's doing their second language training. PAT has not been moved other than up to floors 11 and 12 in the blue sector.



The day I was departing Fort St-Jean after my ILQ in the beginning of Nov, they were trucking over recruits and gear.  They had just spent a week fixing up one of the buildings for them.  Most of them were on crutches, canes etc, so the assumption was that they were the PATs, which we had been told all through course were going to be headed over.


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## Gunner98 (19 Dec 2006)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I'd take it a few steps in the other direction and say that OCdt trg and recruit trg should be common until week X, at which point they would be split into their seperate streams, (officers learning sword drill, the differnt ways the CSD applies to them) etc.
> 
> There is little difference between the basics of drill, wearing of uniforms etc. that are taught to OCdts, and Pte.Rs, so why split them until their training requires it?



I guess that is why OCdts trained (3 platoons worth) at CFRS Cornwallis in the summer of 1983.  My BOTC was taught by the same cadre of instructors as the other 16 Platoons in garrison at the same time.  

Sword drill is more of avanced than BOTC, perhaps whatever today's Phase trg is called.  It would be dangerous to learn to march and learn sword drill at the same time.  How does the CSD apply differently to OCdts and recuits?  Perhaps that is another topic/thread in itself.


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## Springroll (19 Dec 2006)

airmich said:
			
		

> The day I was departing Fort St-Jean after my ILQ in the beginning of Nov, they were trucking over recruits and gear.  They had just spent a week fixing up one of the buildings for them.  Most of them were on crutches, canes etc, so the assumption was that they were the PATs, which we had been told all through course were going to be headed over.



Well, I was on PAT when they were talking about the move, but it never happened. They do have alot of taskings for those on PAT, so maybe what you saw was them over there working. I do have quite a few friends on PAT and I am sure I would have heard(or seen) some of them being whisked away to the Fort. From a reliable source, they moved the officers over to Fort St Jean for their second language training. As a matter of fact, that source is a member of this forum too.

As for Gunner98's comment on sucking it up, ummm, no. If recruits are required to eat or get a counselling, then they need to ensure that we are actually given the opportunity to eat, especially with the amount of physical training we are given. It makes more sense to fix the problem then to try and put a band aid on it or tell us to just suck it up.


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## navymich (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> Well, I was on PAT when they were talking about the move, but it never happened. They do have alot of taskings for those on PAT, so maybe what you saw was them over there working. I do have quite a few friends on PAT and I am sure I would have heard(or seen) some of them being whisked away to the Fort. From a reliable source, they moved the officers over to Fort St Jean for their second language training. As a matter of fact, that source is a member of this forum too.



Wasn't just them working, as there was a caravan of civy vehicles loaded with people and gear, as well as big army trucks that they all started emptying, that were full of packing boxes, duffle bags, suitcases etc.  And I know that the personnel for SLT didn't move over the beginning of Nov, so unless the PATs were tasked with playing porter to the officers gear....

Any staff from CFLRS or Fort St-Jean that can confirm who moved over to the Fort beginning of Nov?


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## Sapper.Murray (19 Dec 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Lines do not have to be immense.  Instructors have to ensure that platoons go thru on a staggered schedule.  as an example: Plt 1 thru 4 go in at 11:30,  Plt 5 thru 8 go in at 11:50,  Plt 9 thru 12 go in at 12:10.  If there is good coordination between the training cadre and the kitchen, there is absolutely no valid reason to have immense lineups in the kitchens.
> 
> Any staff about? comments?


The lines are pretty big, I remember on my Week Zero...yes week zero they have that now....I waited in likne for 15 mins and we had a 30 mins lunch break given to us by the staff.....Now it doesnt happen all the time, but it does happen, and when we start getting more Platoons in it will happin more offten, and to more effect.


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## Gunner98 (19 Dec 2006)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Now we have several thousand PATs waiting at schools and a war going on.
> Here's a straw - one for you and one for Springroll - suck  it  up!



Springroll, 

Do you think the guys on 30-day hikes, through the mountains of Afghanistan getting shot at and eating IMPs, care that you missed a meal?

Piper, 

The reason I said suck it up is that there is a war going on so Utopia will have to wait.  The best people for the instructor jobs are a little busy right now.


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## Springroll (19 Dec 2006)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Springroll,
> 
> Do you think the guys on 30-day hikes, through the mountains of Afghanistan getting shot at and eating IMPs, care that you missed a meal?



I am in no way minimizing what our men and women are doing over there, but when you can be counselled(only need 7) off a platoon, and you get counsellings for not eating, well, it seems a bit screwy if you aren't given the time to eat. 

You know what, give me an IMP to eat on those days when the line ups and the timings don't mesh and I would be happy.


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## medic269 (19 Dec 2006)

> I waited in likne for 15 mins and we had a 30 mins lunch break given to us by the staff



Giving you 10 minutes to eat and 5 to move to your RV point? I don't speak for everyone but that was our average timing every day and we had plenty of time eat.


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## Gunner98 (19 Dec 2006)

Last time I was in La Mega there was a variety store, perhaps you could pick up some granola bars or some fruit to tide you over.  Always be prepared, you never know when and where you will next get to eat or a chance to rest. 

Oh, by the way I wasn't aware that being happy was a PO check during training.  I must have missed that one during my 22 years in uniform of which 12 years have been spent in training institutions.

Is the counselling getting to you or just the threat of it or the dismay caused by your pals ending up in PAT platoon?


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## spud (19 Dec 2006)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Oh, by the way I wasn't aware that being happy was a PO check during training.  I must have missed that one during my 22 years in uniform of which 12 years have been spent in training institutions.



.....getting annoyed Gunner?

Not that there is any sarcasm in your posts   


potato


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## Gunner98 (19 Dec 2006)

Spud,

Not annoyed yet, just thought I would stop to play in the sandbox.


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## spud (19 Dec 2006)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Spud,
> 
> Not annoyed yet, just thought I would stop to play in the sandbox.



My giggle for the day, thanks. Too funny!


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## Springroll (19 Dec 2006)

Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Last time I was in La Mega there was a variety store, perhaps you could pick up some granola bars or some fruit to tide you over.  Always be prepared, you never know when and where you will next get to eat or a chance to rest.



No food or drink(other than water) permitted on the platoon floors, so that one is out. Being that you have spent 12 years in training institutions, I would think you would know that one.



			
				Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Oh, by the way I wasn't aware that being happy was a PO check during training.  I must have missed that one during my 22 years in uniform of which 12 years have been spent in training institutions.



Only happy in the sense that I can do my job to the best of my ability because I was given the chance to have some nourishment.



			
				Gunner98 said:
			
		

> Is the counselling getting to you or just the threat of it or the dismay caused by your pals ending up in PAT platoon?



Just want to finish the course with as little counsellings as possible, and if they can be prevented by proper scheduling by the staff, then that is what should be done. I also don't like the idea of people being sent to PAT for something they have no control over.


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## scoutfinch (19 Dec 2006)

Here is a little tip for you:

Take the little wax paper baggy things of cereal out of the mini-boxes at breakfast time and stash them in your pocket.  You can fit a couple in your pockets and that way if you miss a meal you still have food.  Beef jerky stays fresh forever and also fits handily in pockets.  Sunflower seeds are gold and can become a negotiable instrument in dire moments.

Some of those little life lessons learned on CAP.  I missed TONS of meals because of lineups but I never went hungry.


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## Sig_Des (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> No food or drink(other than water) permitted on the platoon floors, so that one is out. Being that you have spent 12 years in training institutions, I would think you would know that one.



Oh no, you didn't



> Only happy in the sense that I can do my job to the best of my ability because I was given the chance to have some nourishment.



You ever stop to think that maybe this is part of the way they train you so that you CAN do your job to the best of YOUR ability EVEN if you have little nourishment? Timmy isn't gonna stop shooting at you or hold off on his suicide bomber so that you can have a chance to have your eggs and bacon.



> Just want to finish the course with as little counsellings as possible, and if they can be prevented by proper scheduling by the staff, then that is what should be done. I also don't like the idea of people being sent to PAT for something they have no control over.



Now you are passing the buck onto the staff. "proper scheduling"? I would suggest you put up a memo, and make sure you use those 2 words. I can tell you right now what the response will be. Once again, the rush is not only because of time restraints, it's also a way of seeing how you deal with stress. EVERYTHING is a test. Challenge yourself, and YES, suck it up. Everyone else here did.


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## Gunner98 (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> No food or drink (other than water) permitted on the platoon floors, so that one is out. Being that you have spent 12 years in training institutions, I would think you would know that one...
> Just want to finish the course with as little counsellings as possible, and if they can be prevented by proper scheduling by the staff, then that is what should be done. I also don't like the idea of people being sent to PAT for something they have no control over.



Springroll - Let's read between the line ( )

So you want to be a well-fed gray soldier (no counselling, only soup for you) who plays strictly by the rules (no food on the floors - how about one person holds the stash of food each day/week and it moves around kind of like Russian Roulette), whines about poor planning on the part of the staff (stressful is it) and then watches her pals go to PAT (rather than take care of them).  How am I doing so far?


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## MdB (19 Dec 2006)

As for Officers going to Fort St-Jean, my buddies are there. They will have shuttle buses to go to the Mega every day. They moved there the day after the parade, I tell you, it's very tight in there. They were as happy as us to see us leaving.

About same or different courses, I know the subjects are almost the same between IAP and BMQ. How it's taught and the way the staff drive us may be different. The whole IAP/BOTP is oriented toward leadership, responsability, lead by example, difference enough. They ask us to be leader right now, not tomorrow. That means, take action, make a decision and be responsible for it.



			
				SamIAm said:
			
		

> Take the little wax paper baggy things of cereal out of the mini-boxes at breakfast time and stash them in your pocket.  You can fit a couple in your pockets and that way if you miss a meal you still have food.  Beef jerky stays fresh forever and also fits handily in pockets.  Sunflower seeds are gold and can become a negotiable instrument in dire moments.



To add to your comment, I many times smuggled food outside the cafeteria, never been caught. To play it a better way, don't smuggle, just buy some energy bars. Anyway, there machines all over the base. Even though we had 5 mins to eat, I never went hungry. The Mega is a 5 stars hotel, keep that in mind.



			
				SamIAm said:
			
		

> Some of those little life lessons learned on CAP.  I missed TONS of meals because of lineups but I never went hungry.



Me neither while at Farnham. Seems that nerves and adrenaline keep you up.



			
				Scrooge_Des said:
			
		

> You ever stop to think that maybe this is part of the way they train you so that you CAN do your job to the best of YOUR ability EVEN if you have little nourishment? Timmy isn't gonna stop shooting at you or hold off on his suicide bomber so that you can have a chance to have your eggs and bacon.



One's do what one's can. If you have something to eat, you eat it. When you don't, you hang tight.



			
				Scrooge_Des said:
			
		

> Now you are passing the buck onto the staff. "proper scheduling"? I would suggest you put up a memo, and make sure you use those 2 words. I can tell you right now what the response will be. Once again, the rush is not only because of time restraints, it's also a way of seeing how you deal with stress. EVERYTHING is a test. Challenge yourself, and YES, suck it up. Everyone else here did.



Everything is a test? Most. When the platoon screws up, is late, whatever and you have to shorten meal time to follow the schedule, I understand. I don't think my staff ever let us 5-10 mins to eat just for the sake of a test. There's plenty of situations they can test us in. Not at the Mega. As for Farnham, we really didn't have a schedule, just timing, we did what we had too. And yes, we skipped meals.


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## GO!!! (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> As for Gunner98's comment on sucking it up, ummm, no.


Ummmmm, yes, or get the F out. If you can't function in basic trg, where you are only a tenth of as hungry/tired/sore you'll be at later points in your career, just leave, it's only a taste of things to come. The working conditions get worse, and the amenities (food/water/sleep), and opportunities to partake in them only shrink. 



> If recruits are required to eat or get a counselling, then they need to ensure that we are actually given the opportunity to eat,


Nobody is "required" to eat. You can go 3-4 days with very little food with no appreciable decline in capabilities, given the proper motivation to do so.



> especially with the amount of physical training we are given.


Which is't much. You are not even close to deployable fitness levels right now, and certain units in this army like doing things like 25+km marches through the mountains as a section minus, with the enemy force chasing you. The reason for that is that when you are humping a 90lb. ruck up a mountain in A'stan, you don't fall apart and require a medevac, compromising the whole mission.



> It makes more sense to fix the problem then to try and put a band aid on it or tell us to just suck it up.


You are told to "suck it up" because the training only gets harder from here. If you can't hack it at the* easiest *, most heavily regulated training base in the nation, just go away. We don't need weak people that can't deal with adversity, or think this is supposed to be some type of uniformed welfare. 

The purpose of basic trg is two-fold; to establish basic military skills in young soldiers/officers, and to identify those unsuitable for military service. 

Which group are you in?


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## Sig_Des (19 Dec 2006)

MdB said:
			
		

> Everything is a test? Most. When the platoon screws up, is late, whatever and you have to shorten meal time to follow the schedule, I understand. I don't think my staff ever let us 5-10 mins to eat just for the sake of a test. There's plenty of situations they can test us in.



I'm not saying they plan on only allowing you 5-10 minutes to test you, but they do see how individuals deal with it. Talk about it with some of your staff after you graduate, and they'll tell you what they were thinking and saying to each other at the time.


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## Scott (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll, 

You've been in since, what, August? Ever think that there have been many people go through the same things you have? Ever think that most, if not almost all of them, have just toughed it out and moved forward?

I suggest you read and re-read the advice given to you here before mashing the reply button.

We've been down this road before... :


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## Springroll (19 Dec 2006)

I do play by the rules(or in this case the school's SOP's), that is part of having integrity and being honest to myself as well as my team mates. That may not be important to some, but it is extremely important to me.

Yes, whomever said it was right when they said there are machines all over the place at the mega, but I choose not to live off of chip and chocolate bars, and the only areas to get the decent stuff is the green break room or the laundry rooms in the blue sector. 

The Mega has never, in the history of the building, been as full as it is now, so without many of you experiencing it, how come you feel you are qualified to speak about it? I have been told many times on here to "stay in my lane", without you experiencing this, why are you not "staying in your lane"?

I am, by far, not the only one complaining about this, just one of the few on this forum making a genuine concern known.


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## Trinity (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll

If its not too late..  SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I've been on many courses too.. from which I had 5 minutes or less
to ZERO to eat.

Their experience, Mega or not...  is just as valid.  We've all gone
through it.   Stop arguing with members who have more years in 
the military than your entire course.

*And I say this without prejudice...*

edit..  spelling


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## Sig_Des (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> I do play by the rules(or in this case the school's SOP's), that is part of having integrity and being honest to myself as well as my team mates. That may not be important to some, but it is extremely important to me.



I don't want to touch this one, but I am happy you won't be over there with me. Actually, I will. You posted using suspenders to hold down the bed condom tight in another thread. Do you not see this as a "cheat" and have it bother your integrity?



> Yes, whomever said it was right when they said there are machines all over the place at the mega, but I choose not to live off of chip and chocolate bars, and the only areas to get the decent stuff is the green break room or the laundry rooms in the blue sector.



If you're going as hungry as you seem to put across, you take what you can get.



> The Mega has never, in the history of the building, been as full as it is now, so without many of you experiencing it, how come you feel you are qualified to speak about it? I have been told many times on here to "stay in my lane", without you experiencing this, why are you not "staying in your lane"?



You're absolutely correct. NONE of us here, in our combined years in the CF, have EVER been at a training establishment or food service establishment on a base, where the capacity was SO full that there were up to 30-45 minute waits for chow, and have had only 5-10 minutes to eat, or *GASP* have gone without. I AM SO SORRY that I failed to acknowledge your monopoly on THAT particular experience.



> I am, by far, not the only one complaining about this, just one of the few on this forum making a genuine concern known.



Sign of the times?


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## Kat Stevens (19 Dec 2006)

MY FRACKING GOD!!  Do you really feel that special as to be the only boot in the history of the CF to miss a meal? Jeebus Kripes! "Revamp the entire training system, Springroll's got a tiny tummy rumble.  The horror!  Rewrite the entire CTP, Springroll didn't get her three squares today and had to run a whopping 5 Ks."  The pure fracking ego on you is astounding, I hope they make you CDS after basic, while you still have all the answers.  It appears 11 weeks of basic hasn't deflated your sense of self importance any.

OUT


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## SupersonicMax (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll, I totally agree with you that you should be given sufficient time to eat every meal.  However, sufficient doesn't necessarily means long.  5-10 minutes to eat once the first one sits down was pretty standard on my course.  However, it happened that we had to eat in 2-3 minutes which is, I think, okay once in a while.  

I don't see any reason during training to restrict food.  During training (especially any kind of basic training), you need all the energy you can get in order to be able to LEARN (no energy or little energy, the links between neurones won't be created properly).  In later exercises, where you train for a specific mission, I think this is when you should be put into the mission's environment.

Max


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## scoutfinch (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> The Mega has never, in the history of the building, been as full as it is now, so without many of you experiencing it, how come you feel you are qualified to speak about it? I have been told many times on here to "stay in my lane", without you experiencing this, why are you not "staying in your lane"?
> 
> I am, by far, not the only one complaining about this, just one of the few on this forum making a genuine concern known.



 :'( Oh muffin. 

We had 8 people in 4 person rooms this summer at CAP.  No desks, 4x2 bunkbeds and 8 additional metal lockers moved in to each room because there were only 4 existing lockers built into each room.  No one bitched about it too loudly because it was just the way things had to be so as to get people trained.

Give me a break and quit whining about how crowded things are at the MEGA.  Get over yourself.   Try to remember this is not about YOU... MISSION FIRST.


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## SupersonicMax (19 Dec 2006)

SamIAm said:
			
		

> Give me a break and quit whining about how crowded things are at the MEGA.  Get over yourself.   Try to remember this is not about YOU... MISSION FIRST.



What's the mission at CFLRS?  Train people.  Give them the tools to achieve it (including food).  

Max


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## Scott (19 Dec 2006)

:brickwall:


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## scoutfinch (19 Dec 2006)

SupersonicMax said:
			
		

> What's the mission at CFLRS?  Train people.  Give them the tools to achieve it (including food).
> 
> Max



Read above, Max.

I wasn't commenting on food.  I was commenting on the complaints regarding crowded accomodations.  

I have already given soft advice without criticism on the food issue because I agree with you.


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## armyvern (19 Dec 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> Exactly, go back to the way it was.
> 
> Frankly, I don't care. I don't go back to St Jean again unless as an instructor, and that is many many moons into my future. I'm off to CAP and phase training, I don't care. The pervasive attitude seems to be 'suck it up' not 'try and fix it', just like you yourself suggested. I don't buy the catch phrase 'suck it up' It's redundent. If there is a problem, fix it. Don't keep 'sucking it up'. We need an army of thinkers and doers, not Jenna Jamisons.
> 
> But hey, what do I know.



Interesting point. Your go back to the way it was.....along with this whiney post (and the ones that follow it):



			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> I am in no way minimizing what our men and women are doing over there, but when you can be counselled(only need 7) off a platoon, and you get counsellings for not eating, well, it seems a bit screwy if you aren't given the time to eat.
> 
> You know what, give me an IMP to eat on those days when the line ups and the timings don't mesh and I would be happy.



Wow. Sounds like Cornwallis to me. Wait in line 1/2 hour, grab your food, wolf down what you could in 5 mintues and then beat your as$ back to the RV point that was previous assigned. Walk don't run.

You see, stress is the important thing to place on course candidates and it seems that you are getting it. Fair and square. You see you may only be afforded 5 minutes to eat once you've waited in line, but you were afforded the opportunity to eat, and a mere 5 minutes to wolf it down. So no excuses, you don't eat, you get counselled. That's the way we play, and always have played. If you are coming here to Gagetown on course, don't expect it to get any better for candidtaes. It's in the job description.

It seems to me that if they did give you an IMP (because you're special); you'd be on here whining about only getting an IMP for lunch. Learn now, when soldiers aren't complaining...somethings wrong. I guess everything is going all right in St Jean.

Build yourself some bridges and get over it. It's the name of the game. You may actually survive after all.

Edited to add:

For the others:

They are getting food, they are sent to meals. They choose to skip to avoid waiting in line 1/2 hour to spend 5 minutes wolfing down what they're given only to rush back to meet their next timing. Their choice. They need to get over it; thousands of us have before them. We're still alive.


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## MdB (19 Dec 2006)

Sometimes it's 5 mins, other it's 30 mins. Always, the food is good at St-Jean, I mean great. Most of the time, we had between 10 and 20 mins. Over that, and even 20 mins, you have time to relax.

I remember this particular meal at Farnham. End of Ex Vimy week, had slept like 12 hours during the week, it's Friday, we were happy to finish the course, got 30-40 mins to eat, what a lunch we had. Great memories. Even the damn site clearances we had to do in the rain... hehe, more to come, Ducimus!


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## Franko (19 Dec 2006)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> They are getting food, they are sent to meals. They choose to skip to avoid waiting in line 1/2 hour to spend 5 minutes wolfing down what they're given only to rush back to meet their next timing. Their choice. They need to get over it; thousands of us have before them. We're still alive.



Exactly. 

Just wait until you go on a tour and the lineup at the DFAC is so long that you'll spend about 25 minutes in line and you're due to go outside the wire in 10 minutes.

Get used to it, it's the way of things. 

There is plenty of time for you to stand in line and wolf down your grub....just kick the other slow pokes in the arse.

Keep in mind that everything that you are being exposed to is a well scripted schedule and the stress is put in there to force recruits to overcome it....regardless of the numbers there.

I know a few of the staff there right now and everything is quite well handled.

Regards


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## armyvern (19 Dec 2006)

MdB said:
			
		

> Sometimes it's 5 mins, other it's 30 mins.



Exactly my point. They are given the time, some choose to skip the meals when they are only going to get 5 minutes to eat. Oh well, that's on them; and is most certainly counselable. I also carry very appreciative and fond memories of my meals in Cornwallis; 3 extras for eating a french fry on the way to my seat etc....must have been one of those 5 minute meals!!  ;D


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## mechanic_chick (19 Dec 2006)

Oh my. Haven't been on this site for sometime now. Ever since I was ... noticed for my infamous postings at BMQ... lovely 

So heres my piece of pie which will probably amount to nothing due to lack of time ' in '. However , I also recently graduated from the dreadful CFRLS and this would be my take on it :

Meals and timings. Springroll , your like my sister. And realistically , I must say I can see both points here. SR is much like myself.. so I can understand. Yes , I left when the school was almost 30 platoons. So of course it was busy and yes you would have to meet timings , miss meals , get in crap.. etc etc. Really it's just part of the game if anything. It's only 13 weeks. And even though it FEELS like a life time , it will end. You WILL get to eat normal food again and have time to eat it. So just take a breather , find ways around it. Trust me .. you dont get counsellings for missing meals. They threaten it but I missed so many meals especially in the last few weeks... everyone did. They say theyll counsell you but it's only because in the first few weeks they want to make sure your eating and that makes sense. At the end of the course you know what your body can and cant do , what it can take and cant take. So if you know you cant wait in a line that long either take the hit ... TOGETHER as a platoon , or go to the vending machine. I recomend eating something though. You seriously cannot go skipping meals. I lost 15 pounds and I was only 120 when I got there. Im down to 100 now. Skipping meals wont help.

So thats my take on that. It's boot camp. Regardless of how many years ago you did it or where you did it some fundamentals dont change. Dont be so quick to judge the newbs.. we just have different experiences. And as for the newbs , dont be so quick to think yah know it all ( because we suuuureeee dont!! ). 

Thats about it. I hated Basic. Hated %90 of everything we did there  haha. Notice how my old positive attitude has changed into a bitter one , Jk.. well not really. I do miss somethings and some people and I can tell yah now it wont be soon forgotten.

Cheers.

OS Jesso.


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## Good2Golf (19 Dec 2006)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> Interesting point. Your go back to the way it was.....along with this whiney post (and the ones that follow it):
> 
> Wow. Sounds like Cornwallis (*_added_* and Chilliwack) to me. Wait in line 1/2 hour, grab your food, wolf down what you could in 5 mintues and then beat your as$ back to the RV point that was previous assigned. Walk don't run.
> 
> ...



+1, Librarian!  

As a ex-instructor on a BMQ course, I can tell you there was never an occasion that we ever deliberately kept candidates from having the opportunity to eat.  As well, as RBD points out, if you think/expect it to change...it doesn't -- standing 45mins+ in a DFAC for some KBR chow, I gave up and snarfed down a couple of PowerBars I always have aval so I could make my timing to Comd's OGp.  That's life.  "Adapt or perish." 

G2G


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## mechanic_chick (19 Dec 2006)

" It seems to me that if they did give you an IMP (because you're special); you'd be on here whining about only getting an IMP for lunch. Learn now, _when soldiers aren't complaining...somethings wrong. I guess everything is going all right in St Jean._ "

Buahahaha.  ;D That's great.


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## navymich (19 Dec 2006)

Even when you look at where else you might be headed (ex. to the ships), you're not always guaranteed time to eat.  Sure, we brag that we get 3 meals a day plus soup at 10, but all of that can change depending on the operational requirements of the ship, or if you're in the middle of an exercise, entering/leaving harbour, or any other number of evolutions.  You learn to eat what you can, when you can, and enjoy the days when you can relax and fill your belly.

The whole eating thing can stretch into other "privileges" too.  Like having the chance to have a long, hot shower, or clean, dry clothes.  You take what you can get, when you get it, and enjoy the memories of when you do.


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## mechanic_chick (19 Dec 2006)

We get soup at 10?!? Oh man. I can't wait.


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## Infanteer (19 Dec 2006)

Sure alot of static on this net....


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## Springroll (19 Dec 2006)

osjesso said:
			
		

> We get soup at 10?!? Oh man. I can't wait.



I never told you about "Stand Easy", Jesso? 
Geez...what kind of friend am I   
And the soup on ship is better than the soup at the Mega, which I might add is pretty good, especially when it's clam chowder!


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## 17thRecceSgt (19 Dec 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> Here's something to help...
> 
> Move the officer training back to Chilliwack....or some other base. It should be seperate anyways.



Explain or elaborate on how it is not seperate now please?


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## 17thRecceSgt (19 Dec 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Some of the new recruits during their weekend's off have been doing quite the number to the local "comfort inn"...... the front desk has the MPs and QPP on speed dial.



That is the case.  I have had to deal with a few of the lil rascals myself in the hallways, front desk, etc.


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## DirtyDog (19 Dec 2006)

I am at CFLRS right now (well, Xmas leave)  and the situation at the mess is something the instructors are well aware of and concerned about.  Atleast so we were told by one of ours who spoke with one of his buddy's in the kitchen who said they are stretched VERY far at this point (and only getting worse in the New Year).  Personally, I don't find it a big deal.  Yes, we are very seriously threatend with counselings for not eating, but you almost always have time to eat.... even if it's only 3-5mins, which is time enough to jam something down.  If you don't have time, simply grab something quick (like an apple and a piece of bread), swipe through, and leave immediately without eating.  Then atleast you've swiped.  I've done this on more then one occassion.  Some people need to laern how to hustle through the friggin lines as well.  Instead of worrying about getting your own special sandwhich is this and that on it, just grab something and get the hell moving.  

During the day, our instructors will usually see our platoon through the mess line and *may* adjust timings if the situation is drastic.  However, they don't usually do this in the mornings.  Whatever..... it's a small hardship compared to things to come.   Hell, I find the Mega's 3x a day all-you-can-eat buffet an absolute luxury.

There is also a strain on kit and equipment over at the QM in St. Jean.  There is a very real worry in out platoon that some of us may not recieve bits of uniform we need for our graduation parade.  This has nothing to do with the staff at the QM's but the entire supply system is under immense strain.  Hell, half our issued kit has "US" marked on it.

The biggest problem I see is moving platoons effeciently through the corridors of the Mega.  It was already a difficult and frustrating expereince for our instructors as it was and will only get worse with the influx of more platoons.


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## 17thRecceSgt (19 Dec 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Lines do not have to be immense.  Instructors have to ensure that platoons go thru on a staggered schedule.  as an example: Plt 1 thru 4 go in at 11:30,  Plt 5 thru 8 go in at 11:50,  Plt 9 thru 12 go in at 12:10.  If there is good coordination between the training cadre and the kitchen, there is absolutely no valid reason to have immense lineups in the kitchens.
> 
> Any staff about? comments?



Not staff yet Geo (- 3 weeks now though) but I have just been eating in the Recruit Mess and it is much smaller than Champlain Hall is Cornhollis was with approx. the same amount of people to top-up each meal.  Restriction is now in place that staff not on Ration`s will not be able to purchase meals.  Memo is up in the Mess, which sorta blew my plan to not pack lunch every day.


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## DirtyDog (19 Dec 2006)

geo said:
			
		

> Some of the new recruits during their weekend's off have been doing quite the number to the local "comfort inn"...... the front desk has the MPs and QPP on speed dial.



Heh, I was working the front desk on duty platoon a few weeks ago when we took in a few offenders (who I somewhat knew) from MP's shack.  I also heard a first hand account of what happened over at the Comfort Inn.


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## 17thRecceSgt (19 Dec 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> I was on SLT just this summer and we were still in the Mega, so this move to Ft St Jean a recent thing...or are you repeating the same rumour I heard when I was there? Just curious. Because the Fort would have been a lot more condusive to learning french then the Mega (an academic environment vs the hot, smelly and paranoid (never know when a staff is going to jump you in the hall for not doing so and so and then yell as you explain that you are no longer with their school) Mega).



CFLS students who remain `living-in` are staying in Champlain at The Fort.  SLT, rations, gym are only avail for them at the Mega.  The only auth. location for them to use at the Fort other than quarters is the Mess (combined Snr NCOs/WOs/Officers Mess).  CFLS is still operating in the Blue Sector.


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## Springroll (19 Dec 2006)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> There is also a strain on kit and equipment over at the QM in St. Jean.  There is a very real worry in out platoon that some of us may not recieve bits of uniform we need for our graduation parade.  This has nothing to do with the staff at the QM's but the entire supply system is under immense strain.  Hell, half our issued kit has "US" marked on it.



This was a major worry of many in my platoon, but our instructors took it in their hands and went down there themselves. 
We graduate Jan 25th, so with us headed to Farnham right after break, none of us would have time to get anything from the QM and get it tailored in time for Grad. 

Maybe see if your instructors can do the same if grad is creeping up on you too.


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## DirtyDog (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> This was a major worry of many in my platoon, but our instructors took it in their hands and went down there themselves.
> We graduate Jan 25th, so with us headed to Farnham right after break, none of us would have time to get anything from the QM and get it tailored in time for Grad.
> 
> Maybe see if your instructors can do the same if grad is creeping up on you too.



Our instructors have been doing their best.  They are the ones that have talked to us about their concerns in this regard.  I'll be going into week 7 when I get back and am still without my CF pants.  There just isn't any to be had.

it's not such a bad thing though..... my waist has gotten a fair bit smaller since our visit with the tailors in St-Jean.


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## 17thRecceSgt (19 Dec 2006)

SamIAm said:
			
		

> Read above, Max.
> 
> I wasn't commenting on food.  I was commenting on the complaints regarding crowded accomodations.
> 
> I have already given soft advice without criticism on the food issue because I agree with you.



Sorta like...a 5 man tent is crowded during winter warfare.  Space?   ;D


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## Springroll (19 Dec 2006)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Our instructors have been doing their best.  They are the ones that have talked to us about their concerns in this regard.  I'll be going into week 7 when I get back and am still without my CF pants.  There just isn't any to be had.
> 
> it's not such a bad thing though..... my waist has gotten a fair bit smaller since our visit with the tailors in St-Jean.



One of the guys on my platoon got his CF pants last week (Monday) and we were in week 10. 
I had to have all of my CF's retailored too.


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## 17thRecceSgt (19 Dec 2006)

Okay fine...how about the guys missing `mission kit`in theatre...

this is a dead horse that is being kicked to mush now...


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## DirtyDog (19 Dec 2006)

Mud Recce Man said:
			
		

> Okay fine...how about the guys missing `mission kit`in theatre...
> 
> this is a dead horse that is being kicked to mush now...



Definitely a far more grave situation.

I was only commenting on the short supply of kit for recruits and the overall strain on the system.


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## George Wallace (19 Dec 2006)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> I am at CFLRS right now (well, Xmas leave)  and the situation at the mess is something the instructors are well aware of and concerned about.  Atleast so we were told by one of ours who spoke with one of his buddy's in the kitchen who said they are stretched VERY far at this point (and only getting worse in the New Year).  Personally, I don't find it a big deal.  Yes, we are very seriously threatend with counselings for not eating, but you almost always have time to eat.... even if it's only 3-5mins, which is time enough to jam something down.  If you don't have time, simply grab something quick (like an apple and a piece of bread), swipe through, and leave immediately without eating.  Then atleast you've swiped.  I've done this on more then one occassion.  Some people need to laern how to hustle through the friggin lines as well.  Instead of worrying about getting your own special sandwhich is this and that on it, just grab something and get the hell moving.



You know the real problem is just like mentioned above......Stupid People in the line.  You know you have little time to eat.  Why do you stand in line and wait for a burger or steak to be fried up for you?  There are Salad Trays.  There is Yogurt.  There are cold cuts, and pizza slices and other assorted cold foods in those buffets.  

It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people are in the Mess.  Just like cattle.  They can't even think of what to order until they get to the counter.......after standing in line for a half hour........Friggin stupid.   Make up you mind what you want, make up you mind of a second choice should the first be gone, and get out of the way.

Cripes!


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## aesop081 (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll.........you must be the only person to ever have gone through BMQ at the mega ( 9308 myself)......

I cant wait until you have something worthwhile to complain about.  You think long lines and 2 minutes to eat is something new....Its not, it was exactly like that back then too.  You have 10-11 weeks in ST-Jean ?  You are grossley underqualified to speak of the School's history.

Sum up and suck it up.......

Didnt you go there in August ?  Still there in December ? Graduating in January ? What happenned ?


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## Springroll (19 Dec 2006)

cdnaviator said:
			
		

> Springroll.........you must be the only person to ever have gone through BMQ at the mega ( 9308 myself)......
> 
> I cant wait until you have something worthwhile to complain about.  You think long lines and 2 minutes to eat is something new....Its not, it was exactly like that back then too.  You have 10-11 weeks in ST-Jean ?  You are grossley underqualified to speak of the School's history.
> 
> Sum up and suck it up.......



I never specified any amount of time. You may be mixing up my posts with someone elses. When I am talking about no time to eat, I mean that I am still in the line up and have to meet my next timing. I am fine with 5 minutes to eat, at least I have something in my gut. The 11 wk course that I was originally on was full of 5 minute(or less) timings for chow time. This 13 week course is way different. 

I have not been at CFLRS a long time (only 19 weeks) but there are a few who have been there well over a year and would say the same as I have if they were members on here. I am also not sure how your 8 weeks vs my time there makes you more experienced to speak on the topic. Things have changed at CFLRS between 1993 and 2006...along with what we are taught (school history etc)

Meh, whatever. 

This topic is done.

Now onto kit shortages.


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## aesop081 (19 Dec 2006)

Springroll said:
			
		

> I have not been at CFLRS a long time (only 19 weeks) but there are a few who have been there well over a year and would say the same as I have if they were members on here. I am also not sure how your 8 weeks vs my time there makes you more experienced to speak on the topic. Things have changed at CFLRS between 1993 and 2006...along with what we are taught (school history etc)



10 weeks by the way...i was on the last 10 week course.  My father lurks this site also....he taught in st-jean in the 1970s, been hearing all about since i was a kid, i have a pretty good sense of the school's history.  having been the 25th anniversary platoon didnt hurt either.



> Meh, whatever.
> 
> This topic is done.



You came here to bitch and whine.........no reap what you have sewn. I wouldnt want you to be in St-Jean much longer.......19 weeks to pass a 13 week course, i guess thats comparatively not bad  :


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## Scott (19 Dec 2006)

Actually, it started going downhill here:


			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> As for Gunner98's comment on sucking it up, ummm, no. If recruits are required to eat or get a counselling, then they need to ensure that we are actually given the opportunity to eat, especially with the amount of physical training we are given. It makes more sense to fix the problem then to try and put a band aid on it or tell us to just suck it up.



Progressed here:


			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> The Mega has never, in the history of the building, been as full as it is now, so without many of you experiencing it, how come you feel you are qualified to speak about it? I have been told many times on here to "stay in my lane", without you experiencing this, why are you not "staying in your lane"?



Really picked up speed here:


			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> I am, by far, not the only one complaining about this, just one of the few on this forum making a genuine concern known.



And shot to shit here:


			
				DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Personally, I don't find it a big deal.  Yes, we are very seriously threatend with counselings for not eating, but you almost always have time to eat.... even if it's only 3-5mins, which is time enough to jam something down.  If you don't have time, simply grab something quick (like an apple and a piece of bread), swipe through, and leave immediately without eating.  Then atleast you've swiped.  I've done this on more then one occassion.  Some people need to laern how to hustle through the friggin lines as well.  Instead of worrying about getting your own special sandwhich is this and that on it, just grab something and get the hell moving.



And the shooter? Someone AT ST JEAN NOW! I suppose next we'll hear how he doesn't have the TI that you do :



			
				Springroll said:
			
		

> Meh, whatever.
> 
> This topic is done.



Until you find something else to bleat about.


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## Gunner98 (19 Dec 2006)

My, my did I just wander into a Recruiting Commercial...such positive commentary on food, kit and accommodations.  Where do sign-up for this volunteer force?  

Suddenly the sandbox got kind of crowded, I guess I better lurk somewhere else.  Springroll, I guess your stats should say Week 19 of 13...impressive.


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## Infanteer (19 Dec 2006)

...and locked.

This one has nowhere to go but down - you folks can take it to the PM's if you wish.  I hope the thread starter got his CFLRS info.


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