# "PM says Indigenous talks may offer "solution" so Canada can honour war dead"



## The Bread Guy (2 Nov 2021)

We'll see ....


> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he is confident a "solution" will be reached to allow Canada to honour its war dead on Remembrance Day by lowering the flag to half-mast.
> 
> Trudeau gave his strongest indication yet on Tuesday that the national flag could be raised and then lowered again at federal buildings on Remembrance Day.
> 
> ...


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## Good2Golf (2 Nov 2021)

…follow the First Nations majority view to return the flags to full staff and actually start taking demonstrable action, not just hollow words, to address reconciliatory outcomes.


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## daftandbarmy (2 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> …follow the First Nations majority view to return the flags to full staff and actually start taking demonstrable action, not just hollow words, to address reconciliatory outcomes.



And wax your surfboard... 

Remembrance Day is just around the corner and Chesterman's reporting a 4 star wave situation!

Tofino (North Chestermans Beach) Surf Forecast and Surf Reports​ 
(Vancouver Island, Canada)​





						Tofino (North Chestermans Beach) Surf Forecast and Surf Reports (Vancouver Island, Canada)
					

Surf-Forecast.com | Check today's Surf Report and the Surf Forecast for Tofino (North Chestermans Beach). Live wind from the nearest weather station / wave buoy, plus essential information for surfing at Tofino (North Chestermans Beach)




					www.surf-forecast.com


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## Kilted (2 Nov 2021)

The flags have been up on multiple government buildings for months now, it's not very universal across the board.


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## Kirkhill (2 Nov 2021)

So the only reason to raise the flag is to be able to lower it again?


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## Navy_Pete (2 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> And wax your surfboard...
> 
> Remembrance Day is just around the corner and Chesterman's reporting a 4 star wave situation!
> 
> ...


Kind of surprised someone hasn't put together some kind of twitter bot that provides the PM daily updates of his local surfing conditions yet. I guess for in Ottawa could just be small craft conditions for some sweet kayaking on the River.


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## PuckChaser (2 Nov 2021)

Kirkhill said:


> So the only reason to raise the flag is to be able to lower it again?


Who cares about lowering the flags for Remembrance Day now? They've been down so long the act of doing so has lost all meaning.


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## Brad Sallows (2 Nov 2021)

I was unaware anyone, anywhere, had any bargaining position whatsoever with respect to our war dead.


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## Fishbone Jones (2 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> …follow the First Nations majority view to return the flags to full staff and actually start taking demonstrable action, not just hollow words, to address reconciliatory outcomes.


Not laughing at you G2G, however you know you're talking about trudeau here right?


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## Kilted (3 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> I was unaware anyone, anywhere, had any bargaining position whatsoever with respect to our war dead.


Only because the PM gave it to them because he doesn't want to be accountable for it.


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## CBH99 (3 Nov 2021)

Here in Alberta, flags have been at half mast for months.  I had assumed it was the same nationwide?

If the flag is to continue to be lowered for one day per child found, we are already forecast to have the flags at half mast for over 2 years.  And the search using ground penetrating radar has really only just begun…

I understand wanting to do ‘something’ to recognize what an atrocity that whole situation was.  But I don’t know if this is it.  (Pretty sure it isn’t…)   As we can no longer lower the flag to half mast for anything else that happens - local, recent, or a national tribute day such as Remembrance Day, etc.  




PuckChaser said:


> Who cares about lowering the flags for Remembrance Day now? They've been down so long the act of doing so has lost all meaning.


Agree with the second part of that post.  Nobody even asks “Why are the flags lowered?” anymore…

Before this, anytime I saw a flag at half mast, I’d immediately ask what had happened.  Now?  Maybe something happened, or maybe it’s lowered to ‘tally up the days.’   

Maybe a nice thought or someone had their heart in the right place.  I don’t think it’s the right thing to be doing though, practically speaking.  




Brad Sallows said:


> I was unaware anyone, anywhere, had any bargaining position whatsoever with respect to our war dead.


I don’t think any of the Indigenous Affairs leadership wants that.  The ‘discussions’ probably aren’t even happening, or if they are, were over fairly quickly.  

It’s well understood that honouring Remembrance Day, and raising/lowering the flag as part of that, isn’t about insulting or minimizing Indigenous peoples at all.  I really don’t think the folks at Indigenous Affairs made a fuss about it - maybe an inquiry.  



Gosh, this PM and his woke hippie BS…. I thought this was just a phase he’d eventually outgrow.


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## Edward Campbell (3 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> I was unaware anyone, anywhere, had any bargaining position whatsoever with respect to our war dead.


It's politically ~ what's word? clever? sneaky? something like that ~ to try to pit the nation's grief for the fate of our First Nations' children against the nation's respect for the supreme sacrifice of our war dead. It takes Prime Minister Trudeau and the Liberal Party off the hook. It becomes a question of who's to blame: them? or them?


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## lenaitch (3 Nov 2021)

CBH99 said:


> Agree with the second part of that post.  Nobody even asks “Why are the flags lowered?” anymore…
> 
> Before this, anytime I saw a flag at half mast, I’d immediately ask what had happened.  Now?  Maybe something happened, or maybe it’s lowered to ‘tally up the days.’


Here in Ontarioland, especially OPP detachments, I've given up wondering.  Where I would once check the news or Association feeds, there are are now so many provincial policy days honouring this or that event or cause.  Or it could simply be a matter of local leadership not caring or not passing on direction.  Flags might not be lowered, or be properly lowered but stay down for a month until somebody notices (often a member of the public).  It seems many are too busy being managers rather than leaders.


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## mariomike (3 Nov 2021)

lenaitch said:


> Here in Ontarioland, especially OPP detachments, I've given up wondering.



Our neighbourhood firehouse ( one of 83 in the city ) seems to have its own half-mast protocol.

Here in Torontoland, I looked up the half-mastings over the last ten months.









						Half-Mastings 2021
					

The City of Toronto half-masts flags at the locations noted to mark national commemorative dates, to mourn the passing of public figures including current and past elected officials, and to mark tragedies and commemorations as shown: March 11 National Day of Observance for COVID-19 All flags on...




					www.toronto.ca
				




For reference to the discussion of half-masting,









						The Inevitable Debate on Half Masting
					

In light of the fact that the media and members of this forum have already picked up on the fact that the flags on Parliament Hill will not be at half mast for the soldiers killed today (see http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/04/22/1546072-cp.html for the media), I would like to draw...




					www.milnet.ca


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## Brad Sallows (3 Nov 2021)

> It takes Prime Minister Trudeau and the Liberal Party off the hook.



That might have been the thinking, but few people have the inclination and discipline to really think through - in effect, to wargame - their CoAs (as they play out what cartoonist Scott Adams - IIRC - calls "the movie in their heads").  Already people on both "sides" (aboriginals and non-aboriginals) have commented unfavourably on playing two sober and solemn issues off against each other.  That should have been easy to foresee, adopted as the "most dangerous" enemy CoA (one resulting in the LPC crushed in the middle), and avoided.


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## CBH99 (3 Nov 2021)

Brad Sallows said:


> That might have been the thinking, but few people have the inclination and discipline to really think through - in effect, to wargame - their CoAs (as they play out what cartoonist Scott Adams - IIRC - calls "the movie in their heads").  Already people on both "sides" (aboriginals and non-aboriginals) have commented unfavourably on playing two sober and solemn issues off against each other.  That should have been easy to foresee, adopted as the "most dangerous" enemy CoA (one resulting in the LPC crushed in the middle), and avoided.


It’s mind boggling, isn’t it?  Just how out of touch a PM or political party can be from the average person.


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## CBH99 (3 Nov 2021)

lenaitch said:


> It seems many are too busy being managers rather than leaders.


Amen.  Hit the nail on the head.


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## Colin Parkinson (3 Nov 2021)

CBH99 said:


> It’s mind boggling, isn’t it?  Just how out of touch a PM or political party can be from the average person.


My buddy is a card carrying member of the Haida and is swearing cursing at this stupidity.


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## Good2Golf (3 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> My buddy is a card carrying member of the Haida and is swearing cursing at this stupidity.


It doesn’t matter what the First Nations think - it’s how his words resonate with his base in the public polls…


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## Kirkhill (3 Nov 2021)

Good2Golf said:


> It doesn’t matter what the First Nations think - it’s how his words resonate with his base in the public polls…


Flags as signals.


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## Ostrozac (3 Nov 2021)

Kirkhill said:


> Flags as signals.


That literally is exactly what they are. Hence their prominent display in the original badges of the Royal Canadian Corps of Signals, before that Corps found religion (and Anglophilia) in the form of the Roman God Mercury.

Currently, half masting is within the PMs authority. And it Is his decision to defend. Do we need to change that? Can we? The trend for the last 50 years or so has been increasing, not decreasing, power in the PMO.


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## Kilted (3 Nov 2021)

Ostrozac said:


> That literally is exactly what they are. Hence their prominent display in the original badges of the Royal Canadian Corps of Signals, before that Corps found religion (and Anglophilia) in the form of the Roman God Mercury.
> 
> Currently, half masting is within the PMs authority. And it Is his decision to defend. Do we need to change that? Can we? The trend for the last 50 years or so has been increasing, not decreasing, power in the PMO.


That's a job that probably shouldn't belong to an elected official. There is a reason why there is specific criteria for when the flag is half masted, so that it isn't done willy nilly.


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## Kilted (3 Nov 2021)

Actually after this, barring Remembrance Day and the death of certain specific individuals, I don't think that the flag should be half masted for many years in order to recover its meaning.


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## Ostrozac (3 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> That's a job that probably shouldn't belong to an elected official. There is a reason why there is specific criteria for when the flag is half masted, so that it isn't done willy nilly.


Treat it like heraldry, maybe, and put it with the GG? That transfers it out of the authority of the PM and the Minsiter of Canadian Heritage.


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## Jarnhamar (3 Nov 2021)

> Trudeau says he is confident a *"solution" will be reached to allow Canada* to honour its war dead on Remembrance Day



So basically the flag is being held hostage and we have to negotiate for it's return. I can't wait to read about what kind of deal he strikes up, unless it's hidden under cabinet confidence of course.


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## Kilted (3 Nov 2021)

Ostrozac said:


> Treat it like heraldry, maybe, and put it with the GG? That transfers it out of the authority of the PM and the Minsiter of Canadian Heritage.


So trust flag protocol to the people who design and grant flags, that would make too much sense.


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## Kilted (3 Nov 2021)

Some interesting information:


III. Discretionary Authority of the Prime Minister​15. Foreign Heads of State or Heads of Government - Half-masting in Canada​Upon the death of a current foreign head of state or a foreign head of government, and after consideration of his/her stature and the relation of that country with Canada, the Prime Minister may approve the Half-masting of the Flag on the Peace Tower on the advice of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada and Canadian Heritage, and the recommendation of the Clerk of the Privy Council.

16. Exceptional Circumstances​In exceptional circumstances, and on the advice of the Department of Canadian Heritage and the recommendation of the Clerk of the Privy Council, the Prime Minister may approve the Half-masting of the Flag on the Peace Tower, and/or on all or some federal buildings and establishments in Canada or abroad, that is not provided for in the Rules.


19. Legal Holidays​If the Flag is Half-masted anywhere in Canada or abroad in accordance with the Rules, it must nonetheless be flown at full-mast on the following legal holidays created under the Holidays Act (R.S.C. c. H-5): Victoria Day and Canada Day.

20. Visiting Foreign Head of State or Head of Government​If the Flag is Half-masted on the Peace Tower in accordance with the Rules, it must nonetheless be raised to full-mast while a foreign head of state or foreign head of government is visiting Parliament.

21. Exceptions to Sections 19 and 20​Sections 19 and 20 do not apply if the Flag is Half-masted for the death of the Sovereign, but the Flag is flown at full-mast on the day on which the accession of the new monarch is proclaimed. Sections 19 and 20 also do not apply if the Flag is Half-masted for the death of the current Governor-General or the current Prime Minister.


Source: Rules for half-masting the National Flag of Canada - Canada.ca

I'm pretty sure that it was down on Canada Day, which apparently it was not supposed to be.


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## AirDet (4 Nov 2021)

I just can't hold my peace anymore on this issue... Sure lots of kids died. Do we half mast for one child? How about two? No we don't. When the hockey team was wiped out we lowered it for one day. Where is the reasoning for the flag still sitting at half mast? It makes no sense. 
Got it! They feel like Canada tried to wipe them out. I think it was more of trying to integrate them into society.
Regardless, there's absolutely no reason our flags should remain down this long! Should the aggrieved groups wish to keep their flags down that's their business but the Canadian flag needs to fly high and free.


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## Blackadder1916 (4 Nov 2021)

Ostrozac said:


> Treat it like heraldry, maybe, and *put it with the GG*? That transfers it out of the authority of the PM and the Minsiter of Canadian Heritage.



Let's see the reaction when the entity that the GG represents kept protocol to the letter when the mother of the second in line to the throne died.






						The Queen bows to her subjects
					

The Queen will today broadcast to the nation her grief over the loss of Diana, Princess of Wales, as the Royal Family bowed to public criticism over their behaviour since Sunday's tragic deaths.




					www.independent.co.uk
				





> The concessions came thick and fast. In breach with Royal precedent, it was announced that tomorrow the Union flag will fly from Buckingham Palace at half mast after the Queen has left for the funeral service at Westminster Abbey. This meets the growing chorus of demands from many ordinary people who have complained that there has been no flag at all. Traditionally, only the Royal Standard is flown - and then only when the Queen is resident.


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## Kilted (4 Nov 2021)

Blackadder1916 said:


> Let's see the reaction when the entity that the GG represents kept protocol to the letter when the mother of the second in line to the throne died.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't half-mast a personal flag, it was a case of the population being uneducated. They were able to find a way to half-mast a flag when the Queen is not in residence.  Even to this day the Union Jack is flown when the Queen is not home.

Also, I know that the PM does whatever he wants, and so far without consequence.  I'm not sure that there is anyone else in our society that has the level of impunity that he has.  Trump thought that he did, but clearly, he was wrong.


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## RangerRay (4 Nov 2021)

There are more checks on an American president than on a Canadian prime minister, especially if said PM has a majority in Parliament.


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## Blackadder1916 (4 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> You can't half-mast a personal flag, it was a case of the population being uneducated. They were able to find a way to half-mast a flag when the Queen is not in residence.  Even to this day the Union Jack is flown when the Queen is not home.
> 
> Also, I know that the PM does whatever he wants, and so far without consequence.  I'm not sure that there is anyone else in our society that has the level of impunity that he has.  Trump thought that he did, but clearly, he was wrong.



The post I was responding to suggested that by removing the authority from the PM and Minister and giving it to the Governor General, that protocol would be adhered to and that public opinion considerations would not be applied to half-masting decisions.  My example was to prove that wrong.  How did they find a way to half-mast a flag?  They changed the protocol in response to public opinion.  Prior to the 1997 death of Diana, Princess of Wales, the only flag that flew from Buckingham Palace was the Royal Standard and only when the Sovereign was in residence.  The Queen (and most of her mob) were up north at Balmoral so there was nothing flying at the location most people looked upon as the official home of the Queen.  Even when they returned to London there was a period when the they did not break tradition (the Royal Standard went up).  It was only on the day of the funeral that they caved to public outrage and raised the Union Flag (after the Queen had left the palace for the funeral) and half-masted it.  Now protocol includes having the Union Flag flying at the palace when the Queen is not in residence and half-masting as deemed appropriate.


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## Mills Bomb (4 Nov 2021)

I agree with others in this thread, does it even matter anymore? 

I'll be remember our veterans this November 11th in my own personal way. I could care less what level the current PM decides to put the flags at.


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> Some interesting information:
> 
> 
> III. Discretionary Authority of the Prime Minister​15. Foreign Heads of State or Heads of Government - Half-masting in Canada​Upon the death of a current foreign head of state or a foreign head of government, and after consideration of his/her stature and the relation of that country with Canada, the Prime Minister may approve the Half-masting of the Flag on the Peace Tower on the advice of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada and Canadian Heritage, and the recommendation of the Clerk of the Privy Council.
> ...


So a cursory  read says the PM doesn't  have any authority to half mast the flag on his own, which he did. Have I got that right? If so, does that mean he can't  hold it hostage on a whim?


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## brihard (4 Nov 2021)

AirDet said:


> Got it! They feel like Canada tried to wipe them out. I think it was more of trying to integrate them into society.


While Canada didn’t try to “wipe them out” in the sense of physical extermination, Canada did try to destroy them culturally, linguistically, and societally. It was an explicit, deliberate and systematic effort to force assimilation and to permanently rupture the indigenous children from their own cultures. Canada legalized the forcible kidnapping of children in order to destroy societies that were inconvenient to the emerging Canadian state. This took place in the context of other widespread legal measures that suppressed Indians rather brutally, and kept them forcibly confined to designated tracts of land.

One of the legal terms that later emerged to describe this kind of state behaviour is “crimes against humanity”.

Just so we aren’t minimizing what actually happened.


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## kratz (5 Nov 2021)

According to the national Native leader interviewed on CTV this morning, "I have no problem raising the flag on the 11th and returning it to half mast. We will be mourning and healing for years to come."

So....permently half masted flags for 3 to 5 years?


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## Quirky (5 Nov 2021)

Do they need a flag on a pole at half mast to mourn? It’s already lost all meaning now.


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## daftandbarmy (5 Nov 2021)

Quirky said:


> Do they need a flag on a pole at half mast to mourn? It’s already lost all meaning now.



Which brings to mind this quote:

“[The main road was] now teeming with people carrying torches, pitchforks, and rakes, and one very confused man who apparently had mistaken the mob for a parade and was marching around with a Swedish flag.”

― Cuthbert Soup


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## The Bread Guy (5 Nov 2021)

Quirky said:


> Do they need a flag on a pole at half mast to mourn? It’s already lost all meaning now.


If you're going to ask the question, it could go both towards those remembering the war dead as well as those who are thinking of other dead.  


Fishbone Jones said:


> So a cursory  read says the PM doesn't  have any authority to half mast the flag on his own, which he did. Have I got that right?


Sorta-kinda -- if this is the case ...


> In exceptional circumstances, and on the *advice of the Department of Canadian Heritage* and *the recommendation of the Clerk of the Privy Council*, the Prime Minister may approve the Half-masting of the Flag on the Peace Tower, and/or on all or some federal buildings and establishments in Canada or abroad, that is not provided for in the Rules.


... then all that has to happen is for Heritage to "suggest" (and who might have asked them the question needing advice?) and the Clerk "recommend".  And we've only recently seen how the Clerk can ... wrestle with what PM & Co. wants at any given time (remember this guy?).


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## Kilted (5 Nov 2021)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-flags-remembrance-day-1.6238601
		


So a few things here.  First of all, you cannot put two flags on the same flag pole in Canada, what they are suggesting isn't legal.  And second, where does it stop with the orange flags, is it just the peace tower, is it just government buildings, are people going to be told that they can't wear their job wings anymore because that space is being taken up by one of those flags?


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## The Bread Guy (5 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> ... you cannot put two flags on the same flag pole in Canada, what they are suggesting isn't *legal* ...


There's a protocol out there, but no legislation: _"... The manner in which flags may be displayed in Canada is not governed by any legislation but by established practice. The etiquette outlined in this section is a version of international usage and of customs the federal government has been observing for many years ..."_ That said ....


Kilted said:


> ... where does it stop with the orange flags, is it just the peace tower, is it just government buildings ...


The devil is, indeed, in the details.  We'll have to see over the next while.

Also, for a bit more of the story, this from the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations


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## Blackadder1916 (5 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> . . .  what they are suggesting isn't legal . . .



The only Canadian law pertaining to the display of the flag is the National Flag of Canada Act.  And it's only requirement is



> Displaying flag
> *2* (1) All Canadians are *encouraged to proudly display* the National Flag of Canada *in accordance with flag protocol*.
> 
> Allowing display
> (2) Every person who is in control of an apartment building, a condominium building or building in divided co-ownership or another multiple-residence building or a gated community is encouraged to allow the National Flag of Canada to be displayed in accordance with flag protocol.


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## Colin Parkinson (5 Nov 2021)

The Bread Guy said:


> There's a protocol out there, but no legislation: _"... The manner in which flags may be displayed in Canada is not governed by any legislation but by established practice. The etiquette outlined in this section is a version of international usage and of customs the federal government has been observing for many years ..."_ That said ....
> 
> The devil is, indeed, in the details.  We'll have to see over the next while.
> 
> ...


Well they certainly show more thoughtfulness than our current leadership....


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## dimsum (5 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> people going to be told that they can't wear their job wings anymore because that space is being taken up by one of those flags?


I'm not sure what you're getting at.



> In a media statement, AFN National Chief RoseAnne Archibald called on the government to raise the flags that have flown at half-mast for months and "attach the 'Every Child Matters' orange flag to the Peace Tower and on all federal buildings starting November 7."


It seems pretty clear what the AFN is asking for - federal buildings.


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## OldTanker (5 Nov 2021)

flags-on-federal-buildings-to-be-raised-before-and-after-remembrance-day-1.5653920

It appears the Government has made a decision on this. Flags to be returned to full-staff after Remembrance Day.


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## AirDet (6 Nov 2021)

Quirky said:


> Do they need a flag on a pole at half mast to mourn? It’s already lost all meaning now.


Exactly!!!!


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## daftandbarmy (7 Nov 2021)

OldTanker said:


> flags-on-federal-buildings-to-be-raised-before-and-after-remembrance-day-1.5653920
> 
> It appears the Government has made a decision on this. Flags to be returned to full-staff after Remembrance Day.



Let's just hope that HRH (Gawd Bless 'Er) hangs in there until at least Nov 12th then.


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## Good2Golf (7 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Let's just hope that HRH (Gawd Bless 'Er) hangs in there until at least Nov 12th then.


Huzzah…the survey polls win again to this social-media guided government of ours…. 🙄


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## Kilted (7 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> Let's just hope that HRH (Gawd Bless 'Er) hangs in there until at least Nov 12th then.


I'm not sure who you are trying to refer to.


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## daftandbarmy (7 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> I'm not sure who you are trying to refer to.



_"Ladies and Gentlemen_, the _Queen_ of _Canada_," "_Mesdames et Messieurs_, à _la Reine du Canada_."


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## Kilted (7 Nov 2021)

daftandbarmy said:


> _"Ladies and Gentlemen_, the _Queen_ of _Canada_," "_Mesdames et Messieurs_, à _la Reine du Canada_."


That's HM, not HRH.  HRH is the other members of the Royal Family.


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## Jarnhamar (7 Nov 2021)

The Bread Guy said:


> There's a protocol out there, but no legislation: _"... The manner in which flags may be displayed in Canada is not governed by any legislation but by established practice. The etiquette outlined in this section is a version of international usage and of customs the federal government has been observing for many years ..."_ That said ....
> 
> The devil is, indeed, in the details.  We'll have to see over the next while.
> 
> ...



Looks like veterans and other Canadians keen to honour Canadian service members owe Chief Archibald and Prime Minister Trudeau a big thank you.


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## daftandbarmy (7 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> That's HM, not HRH.  HRH is the other members of the Royal Family.


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## Kilted (7 Nov 2021)

Jarnhamar said:


> Looks like veterans and other Canadians keen to honour Canadian service members owe Chief Archibald and Prime Minister Trudeau a big thank you.


The only thing the Prime Minister can do to honour Canadian veterans and serving members is to stay out of the way.


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## Jarnhamar (7 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> The only thing the Prime Minister can do to honour Canadian veterans and serving members is to stay out of the way.


But if it wasn't for Trudeau we wouldn't be_ allowed_ to raise the flag in order to be _allowed_ lower it on 11 Nov.


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## Good2Golf (7 Nov 2021)

Jarnhamar said:


> But if it wasn't for Trudeau we wouldn't be_ allowed_ to raise the flag in order to be _allowed_ lower it on 11 Nov.


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## Colin Parkinson (8 Nov 2021)

Kilted said:


> The only thing the Prime Minister can do to honour Canadian veterans and serving members is to stay out of the way.


Maybe he can personally help demining efforts in Africa?


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## Remius (8 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Maybe he can personally help demining efforts in Africa?


What’s the surfing like there?


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## Colin Parkinson (9 Nov 2021)

Remius said:


> What’s the surfing like there?


Oh it's great, fantastic. He love it....


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## daftandbarmy (9 Nov 2021)

Colin Parkinson said:


> Oh it's great, fantastic. He love it....



So might the sharks 

SOUTH AFRICAN SURFERSUFFERS HORRIFIC INJURIES IN SHARK ATTACK​








						South African Surfer Suffers Horrific Injuries In Shark Attack, Gruesome Photos
					

A South African man suffered horrific injuries after being viscously attacked by a shark while surfing along the country's coastline this week ... and the photos of his wounds are gruesome.




					www.tmz.com


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