# Why Not The Legion?



## wotan (6 May 2005)

Not only am I a currently serving soldier (19 yrs Reg F, 2 yrs P Res prior to that), I am also a member of the Royal Canadian Legion and the Secretary of my Branch.  One of the questions I am asked by some of the "more mature" vets is why currently serving members are not more interested in joining the Legion.

  Now understand, I am well aware of the op tempo of the Army with field deployments, tours, trades training, incremental taskings, etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.  Time at home is precious to today's soldier and volunteering at the local Legion would just cut into time with family.  You will get no argument on that point from me.  But are there other reasons that the Legion isn't as attractive as it could be to currently serving soldiers?  What could the Legion do to make it more attractive?

  I know, I could ask the troops at my unit (and I have), but I figure since this forum is basically anonymous, folks might be a bit more forthcoming.

  Thanks in advance to any that may respond, I truly appreciate you taking the time to share your insight.  Best to all.  Cheers.


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## George Wallace (6 May 2005)

If many of the young guys today don't even want to use the Mess, or learn of its traditions, I am sure many of them feel even less compelled to join the Legion.  That "9 to 5" attitude has crept into the CF and many want nothing to do with the military once they knock off work for the day.  Sadly, that is probably the root of the problem.


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## bossi (7 May 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> If many of the young guys today don't even want to use the Mess, or learn of its traditions, I am sure many of them feel even less compelled to join the Legion.   That "9 to 5" attitude has crept into the CF and many want nothing to do with the military once they knock off work for the day.   Sadly, that is probably the root of the problem.



Ironically, I've just stumbled across a situation that's the exact opposite ... !
Troops are joining the local Legion, rather than frequenting the messes ... !!
I'm told it has something to do with the Legion being open better hours than the messes, and a more welcoming atmosphere (plus, the older vets love to meet the "New Breed").
On the other hand, the messes are labouring under the yoke of the "Personnel Support Agency" (ha!  Reminds me of "Mordak, the Preventer of Knowledge" ...) - I'm amazed at how many non-supportive PSA employees I've run across - when I'm CDS, I'm going to fire quite a few people ... and replace them with folks who actually care ... but, I digress ...


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## Bruce Monkhouse (7 May 2005)

Quote,
_If many of the young guys today don't even want to use the Mess, or learn of its traditions, I am sure many of them feel even less compelled to join the Legion.  That "9 to 5" attitude has crept into the CF and many want nothing to do with the military once they knock off work for the day.  Sadly, that is probably the root of the problem._

George,
Thats it in a nutshell as that was me 25 years ago. However I don't think that it is so much the 9 to 5 thing as I had 3 much more important things on my mind,.... women, sports and good clean drinking. This didn't leave time for the legion/mess thing.
Fact is I still like doing all those things but nowadays they don't take near as long  :crybaby:so I have more time for the [in my case] Legion.


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## Armymedic (7 May 2005)

Personally I will join the Legion once I retire from the military. To join prior is almost like going to the  mess, which as a family man is not something I like to do very often.


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## Bin-Rat (7 May 2005)

Well, for me I was a member of the Victory Branch in London Ontario a few year's ago... But now, with the new smoking by-law.. Tis okay I will stay at home where I can smoke while i am having a beer... And going outside in the winter to have a smoke just sucks royally...

Same as coffee shops.. I used to go to one that tried for the longest time to remain open for smoker's.. but once the smoking by-law came into effect for it,  the store.. within 3 months, closed it door's cause it had lost to many customer's and couldn't carry on...


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## sheikyerbouti (7 May 2005)

As a young member of Br.83 South Burnaby I have long noted that there was effectively no recruiting conducted by individual branches. As a result, Branches in Vancouver and area are in desperate need for numbers. When I first became involved, there were so many existing members accustomed to their own kind (Korea or WW2 vets) that recruitment was not seen as necessary. 

 In order to improve the situation, the RCL must accept new members with alot less red tape. Any requirements of military involvement should be removed in order to facilitate membership from interested parties with no formal connection to the forces or the RCMP. As Branch sizes have diminished, there has been a corresponding decrease in activities particularily in the area of scholarships and community events.

 The RCL for a long time has been remiss in publicizing their efforts and as such their public profile is virtually non-existent. As a member of a pipe band involved with the branch, we have moved away from public events and more towards in house performance. While it is good to see the old folks faces light up as the pipes strike up, it is also important to be seen in the community by the people who may one day replace the current crop that is soon to die out.

 My suggestions would include: 
 1) Free one year membership to any and all applicants with a connection to the forces. The 30 bucks lost would be quickly recouped as numbers in the branch would mean more booze sales.

 2) All branches should be directed to accept any guests at the very least for the weekends. For example, as most branches no longer require signing in why bother keeping up pretenses especially if it means customers to support the bar.

 3) Cadet units supported by local legions should encourage ex-members to join in recognition of the support they have received. A hal doesn't come cheap and the kids should be told that.

4) This is a contentious point, but consolidation of existing branches should be put on the table as opposed to letting a branch or Unit (ANAF) die is simply unacceptable. For example, Br. 48 on Joyce at Kingsway closed with little fanfare leaving  a valuable building in the hands of Dominion command with little regard for propping up other locations still in a viable economic condition. the liquor licence alone is worth conservatively six figures and that money alone would work miracles.

 5) There should be a resuscitation of legacies like scholarships and community grants to ensure that the great work of the RCL is not forgotten.

 6) There should be less reliance on central administraton as the boys in command don't really keep an ear to the ground. Local commands should have full authority over matters related to day to day affairs.

 7) With regards to Armymedic's comment, the RCL has gone through many phases but strong in my memory are the Christmas parties, BBQ's, fairs and track meets all of which are very much family affairs but were only stopped as the numbers dropped.

8) My grandfathers branch in Laval is a good example of a small branch doing good work. The meals on wheels program and the toys they make for kids each christmas have impact on their community but that effort is largely unrecognized. My cousin was buried last year in the only hall in his hometown... surprise, surprise it was a legion. these contributions must be recognised at higher levels of government and from time to time it can reap reward. The newly resurrected Branch 2 in New Westminster is a great example of lobbying of local government to find concessions  that keep the RCL kicking. Although their position may be tenuous, with a little support from the public thay may turn things around.


 The RCL has done as much for people as the Shriners or the Lions club but their humility has impeded full recognition of their good deeds. Anyone who has an interest in their community should join the Legion or any other service club for that matter. Unfortunately, most people are unwilling to commit even a nominal amount of time to a good cause. Volunteering is down across Canada, and until there is recognition from government to encourage more effort little is going to happen.

 In my opinion a Legion or other service club should be allowed to forgo taxes in lieu of the support that is given to their respective communities. A tax credit to volunteers would be an adequate solution as the time we give is precious, more so given the lack of effort from the rest of the population that will gladly take what is offered but give nothing in return.

 I say volunteer, join up, hell just stop in for a pint. Show the guys and gals (can't forget the Ladies Auxilliaries) that you care and want to see their good work continue. Throw a couple bucks in the can the next time you buy a poppy knowing full well that your contribution will not go in vain. Lets hope for more constructive comments from the people out there....

 Lest we forget


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## wotan (9 May 2005)

I'd like to thank each of you for taking the time to respond to my query.  The info and viewpoints you have each provided are definitely insightful and will hopefully help my Branch (and others, with any luck) to attract more members.  

  While things like smoking by-laws have contributed to a drop in numbers at some Branches, my Branch in specific isn't affected as we are in a small town and the Mayor is adverse to being lynched. 

  And, just for info, the Legion does allow folks with no connection to join up.  They are listed as Non-Voting Associate Members and after two years of service, they can, if they choose, assume full Associate Member status including the right to then vote at Branch, Zone and Provincial meetings.

  Anyway, thank you all very much.  Your time and effort is truly appreciated.  Cheers.


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## Bin-Rat (10 May 2005)

Well there was one legion's website I went to .. they had a smoking partition showing on this page, to get them as a place where people could smoke.. Due to the one fact it wasn't a public place, it was how do I describe it.. Like a union hall I guess, where everyone there is a member sorta speak... and as such, shouldn't be restricted as like the local bar's... But I can't find the page anymore to see what the actual out come is/was as if they could get smoking re-enstated....

But ya here in London there have been a few algamations that have happened... for some hall's that weren't able to maintain themselves..


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## 1feral1 (10 May 2005)

Not that long ago, the Australia RSL's were in the same sorry state the Cdn RCLs are. They changed policy and regualtions and have been re-born. Try www.cronullarsl.com.au and this is just one example.

In 2004, I seen the sorry state the Regina branch of the RCL is in. It has not even had a coat of paint in 30yrs, and the bewt rooms like the Normandy Lounge, the Vimy Room, the Lancaster Lounge are in a sorry state. Run down and wore out. Pretty sad, and the club is expected to close its doors sooner than later.   It has such good potential. Time for the RCL to accept the changes of today's society, and come on line with reality, and learn from other commonwealth countries.

It's not too late to save this excellent organisation.

Face it the WW2 Vets are in their 80's now, and its time to pass the torch to the next generation of Cdn Vets. Be proactive, and voice your opinion to your Branch before its too late.

Cheers,

Wes, 
Servce Member of the RSL of Australia


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## 1feral1 (10 May 2005)

here is two other sites, the national RSL at www.rsl.org.au (go have a look a this please) and my current club on Bribie Island www.bribiersl.com.au it should be noted that the Bribie Island RSL branch services a small community of about 17,000 people. We don't even have a set of traffic lights, and look how the Branch is prospering.


Cheers,

Wes


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## battleaxe (8 Dec 2006)

A lot has happened in the last year and a half (since the last post on this thread)-a lot of media attention on the troops in Afghanistan-many tragedies. This most recent Remembrance Day was very poignant - and hit home sharply because of the many CF casualties.

Do you think recent events have raised awareness enough that more people will begin to commit to the Legion?  The need for an organization that supports veterans and is dedicated to remembrance?  

Has anyone noticed more CF personnel-or anyone for that matter-joining? Any renewed interest?

I'm in the midst of the application process and have been researching a bit for other purposes.  I came across this somewhat obscure but current piece which struck me as significant in some ways.  http://www.mala.bc.ca/incline/legion.html

Saddest part about it for me was the following quote from the RCL national director of membership, Karen Mackarous- "Many of the veterans say they started the Legion, and it should die when they die," she notes. "In some areas there's difficulty in getting them to turn over the responsibility. They don't think just anyone can do it." 

Can the older vets have confidence in us to carry the torch?  Can they feel comfortable in handing over their responsibilities and legacy to us?


Lots of questions to revive this old thread-from someone worried about the future of the RCL.


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## the 48th regulator (8 Dec 2006)

Well,

Think about it.  You are on a form of a legion.

What is the basic concept of the legion?  Is it not for People of the Military to gather together?  Those that are veterans, those that serve, and even those that wish to join?  A place to reminisce and pay homage to our warriors?

We have it here.  Mike Bobbit has provided the legion of the 21st century, if you will.

I believe that the legion could remain strong, as this site proves that the Canadian interest is there, if however it evolves with the times.  Maybe the legion must do the same, and adopt to the needs and likes of us modern Veterans, so that they may better be able to accept any new influx of members that they seek.

dileas

tess


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## Command-Sense-Act 105 (8 Dec 2006)

Hear Hear!  I agree - maybe modernization and evolution is what the Legion needs to do to save itself.


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## 241 (8 Dec 2006)

I know the leigon in Red Deer has (or had) an apartment complex that they rented out to vets cheap and now due to lack of funds they are at risk of having to sell it and chances are that who ever buys it will not be so generous to the vets living there and will end up uping the rent (I will try to find a link to the news story I read this in a while ago)


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## the 48th regulator (9 Dec 2006)

Okay,

I pose this question, when was the last time a representative of the legion, showed up at the regiment or unit you belonged, outside of November 11th?

I mean, it works both ways.  We must realize that we, are the new veterans.  And this is an association dedicated us.   Why is it that they do not seek us, as opposed a veteran having to be searching for the legion.

Chew that thought.

dileas

tess


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## Teddy Ruxpin (9 Dec 2006)

+1 to Tess

Well, I'm tempted to stir the pot a bit...

Perhaps one of the problems is indicated with the quote from battleaxe above:



> "Many of the veterans say they started the Legion, and it should die when they die,"



In a number of Legions I've been in, there's been a sense (and it's just that) that if you weren't in WW II, your service isn't on a par with the "real" vets.  I had a discussion with a _very_ senior member of the Korean Vets Association, who said he'd felt much the same and that he'd have nothing to do with the Legion as a result.   Moreover, the Legion hasn't done itself any favours through ill-placed controversies such as opposing smoking bans and turbans in branches.  Unfortunate, but there it is.

That may be changing as the old guard dies off and are replaced by a plethora of associates (not to mention an ordinary membership meeting an increasingly very broad criteria).  Personally, I admire the Legion's advocacy and support for the CF, but the social side isn't that attractive to me.  They _are_ making an effort, but will it be enough?

FWIW...

Oh, one last thing.  The RCL was founded by veterans of the _First_ World War...


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## GO!!! (9 Dec 2006)

Most soldiers in my unit are single males with plenty of disposable income and lives centered on the pursuit of women.

No girls at the Legion = no troops at the legion.

Hanging out with the vets is interesting, I've never regretted it, but our society is moving away from pastimes that involve sitting in a bar with few other activities (darts, shuffleboard) and drinking. There are so many other productive things one could be doing (see first sentance)

When I was a little younger, I found the Legion a useful place for "priming", as the JRC closed early and was zealously patrolled by staff who disliked music, laughter and fun, and an outer cordon of MPs to complete the experience. 

In Edmonton, there is a Legion a block off of Whyte Ave - but all there is to do there is drink. If that organisation is to survive, it will have to change with the times to increase it's appeal for the next generation of soldiers.


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## the 48th regulator (9 Dec 2006)

GO,

You nailed it.  The legion was guaged toward the fellas after the war (as Micheal O said the first) maybe it is time to fire it up for the lads now.

dileas

tess


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## Spartan (9 Dec 2006)

I'm just wondering if its also because of the competition amongst veteran organizations that is actually hurting all the organizations? ANAVETS and the RCL as an example


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## buckahed (9 Dec 2006)

When I went home on leave in the early 80's my uncle tried a couple of times to get me in to the local legion as a guest. I got treated like something that should be scraped off a shoe. The legion made it very clear that post 45 service members were not welcome for a long time. They slammed the door in the face of a couple of generations of service people. Good luck trying to get those people to support the Legion now.


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## HollywoodHitman (9 Dec 2006)

Tess, 

If this is the legion of the 21st Centyury, how come I can't get this computer to serve me beer?

Anyway, I'll throw a couple cents into this one.....I've gone to some RCL's where the membership are so out of touch with their primary purpose, that they don't recognize members of their own country's armed forces.....Not to mention the age / social gap in many cases. It was one thing when you could find WW2 / Korea vets in some of these places, to listen and hoist some beers, but now...It's a little tougher.....

'Fraid I have no suggestions on how to improve it, but allowing serving soldiers and a guest or 2, without having problems 'getting them in' would be a start. Modenizing the looks of some of the places might help too.

My .02


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## battleaxe (9 Dec 2006)

There are many things that need to be done to bring the Legion up to modern standards- and to function in accordance with modern lifestyles.  Unfortunately, change takes money and man hours - both of which the Legion is quickly losing due to decreasing membership and an aging membership base.
The Legion should change in order to attract people, and it should beef up its public relations and recruiting.  I agree.  But how will they do this, and who will do it, if no new blood comes in to maintain it? 
As long as there are veterans and CF personnel, there will be a need for an organization such as the Legion. Not just for the advocacy, but the comradeship and community benefits, as well.
There is a large, organized, and respected organization just waiting there-a legacy for us.  An organization meant to help us-infrastructure/administration etc.  And while we're waiting for them to fix it up so that it's fit for us to join, it's crumbling.
The majority of members now are getting up there in years.  Average age of a WWII vet is now 82 or so?  Pretty sure on that.  Most of what they do is on a volunteer basis.  I think we're expecting too much of them.
I know that some people have expressed dissatisfaction with the way they were treated by the members of the Legion.  On a grand scale, however, I hope most agree that the Legion has, overall, been around to help veterans and soldiers when they needed it- a few bad apples can't change that, I think.
I don't know...I don't think we can expect them to know what we need or to have the energy to make it happen.  Might be better to get in there and tailor it to our own needs.  Maybe we- our generation-can make a go of it.  Thoughts?

I'll answer my own question by asking straight away- Who has the time?  That's my thought when I think of what Legion members do.  Much of what they do is on a volunteer basis.  That's one problem with modernizing the Legion- younger people have no time and volunteerism is dropping. What to do?


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## BeachBum (9 Dec 2006)

This thread drew me out from the shadows. I'm the President of a small, rural Branch of the Royal Canadian Legion in Cape Breton. I've read with interest the comments and criticisms put forward. Most, if not all, I've heard before...and in certain places, at certain times, are true enough.

The Royal Canadian Legion is the largest Veterans Organization in Canada. It is also an important COMMUNITY Organization in many small towns and rural areas throughout this country. It is run according to the bylaws of Dominion Command, the Provincial Command in which the Branch is geographically located , and last but not least, Branch Bylaws. 

These Bylaws are proposed, voted on, and either adopted or rejected by the MEMBERS. Any complaints, criticisms, kudos, ideas, or administrative issues can be discussed at a General Meeting where the MEMBERS decide how to deal with the issues at hand.   Members are the heart and soul of this organization, and I invite you to visit your local Legion Branch to discuss the benefits of membership with the President, or one of the Executive Committee members. 

Just for your info, the Executive Committee of my Branch has an average age of around 50, and we operate a clean, up to date, modern Branch where it's just as likely you'll see a tableful of young women as a tableful of Vets. 

One final point....Membership in the Royal Canadian Legion is is not an Honourary position...it's a WORKING position. Branches work hard for Vererans, serving and former members of the Canadian Forces , their families, and the community at large. Any Branch is only as effective as it's membership.


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## Michael OLeary (9 Dec 2006)

BeachBum said:
			
		

> I'm the President of a small, rural Branch of the Royal Canadian Legion in Cape Breton.



BeachBum, thank you for adding your perspective.

Just to add some context, there also has to be acceptance that there is a big difference between being in rural Cape Breton and being in a large Canadian city where the competition for both social activities and volunteer opportunities vary greatly in their ability to attract younger Canadians ( current/recent service members or otherwise).

You have found a model that continues to work in what I suspect is a relatively unchanged social environment over the past few decades.  City Branches have not been the same centres for socializing in the same way that I have heard rural Branches described, and the probability that generational participation in the local Legion within families has not been a sustaining factor in the larger centres.  It is in these varying situations that the Legion, whether nationally, within Divisions or at the Branch level, have to work at reestablishing their perceived value to an new potential membership.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (9 Dec 2006)

A quick look (http://www.legion.ca/asp/docs/about/domexec_e.asp) at the "Dominion Executive" reveals few real veterans (even of the broadest category) - and none of the Second World War.  Most have had very limited - if any - actual CF service.  This isn't a criticism of the Legion itself, but rather reflects their comparative inability to attract members who have recently served.  I'll admit, though, that I find the plethora of medals and the use of "Comrade" as an honourific somewhat disconcerting.

Part of the problem is that WW II created a huge population of genuine veterans.  The postwar CF is much, much smaller and cannot sustain Legion branches in every location, despite recent Legion efforts to water down membership requirements in an effort to keep the eligible population up.1  Branches outside large population centres are almost by definition going to decline in "real" membership, as Mike hints at.

I don't think the Legion was ever really intended for _serving_ members.  Instead, it emulates the camaraderie of military life with none of the apparent drawbacks.  Also, as BeachBum points out, the organization has provided tremendous services to both veterans and to the community at large.  I'd certainly want them in my corner if I hand pension problems, for instance.  However, until the thirty-something veteran of three tours in Afghanistan feels comfortable joining and participating, the RCL will continue to have difficulties.

I don't really have a recommended course of action.  It would be a shame if the RCL ceased to exist due to a lack of interest - its part in advocacy is much too important.  However, despite making some effort to attract a younger generation, it is still seen as an "old boy's" club, fighting over turbans and smoking - no matter how critical their part in community life.  Until that impression changes, actual modern veterans will tend to stay away...

My 2 cents.
_______________________

1.  To the point where some requirements are now obsolete and/or repetitive.  See http://www.legion.ca/asp/docs/member/mem_who_e.asp#canord


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## 241 (9 Dec 2006)

I know that in Red Deer every year at Remembrance Day the veterans are very open and welcome us very warmly, even when this year some of the younger members decided to get a table reserved for our unit and just sit there and get drunk as apposed to visiting with them, they still made there way across the Legion into the corner where our troops had them selves tucked away. I made a point the following parade night to pull them aside and explain my feelings on them reserving a table, the veterans that are the current "Legion Generation" are getting old and will not be with us much longer and my personnel opinion is that they (the troops) have 364 days of the year where they can go and sit in a corner and get drunk with themselves and that Nov 11 they should not be in a corner but out talking with the veterans and hearing what they have to say about how military life was then, perhaps if they knew what it was like then there would be less bitching about little things like a 4 hour fireplan in the snow on a 2 day weekend exercise....Now we just have to wait till next year to see if they took any of it to heart....


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## BeachBum (9 Dec 2006)

Michael, to a large degree, your points are certainly valid. The main point I was trying to make is that the changes must be made from within the organization. No amount of tongue wagging or finger pointing from the outside will effect change. 

I suspect that most retiring servicemen/women will take up residence in either a semi rural or suburban neighbourhood. Not many will opt to live downtown in a major city. 

As far as our business model....it's a work in progress. Small changes are constantly made to reflect changing demographics, provincial laws, attitudes, and financial considerations. We never rest on our laurals and are always exploring new ways of doing business, both on the food and beverage side and service to veterans/community side.



All branches have challenges to overcome that are unique to their geographic location. If our business model was employed in a large urban centre, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the place would be filled to capacity on the weekends, and do fine during the week as well.


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## 1feral1 (9 Dec 2006)

Command-Sense-Act 105 said:
			
		

> Hear Hear!  I agree - maybe modernization and evolution is what the Legion needs to do to save itself.



Thats exactly what it needs, and as I mentioned in a previous post, Australia seen the future coming and did exactly that. I'd like to see the RCL take the RSL's lead and do something similar. If not, the RCL will simply implode (more sooner than later), and it will be history.

Although some large branches in the major cities will survive, many smaller ones are dying now, and some, like in Big River, Sask have already closed.As of July 2004, Regina's was a disgrace, with the only thing going for it, a impressive mural, and informative museum display area. The place smells as it did 30 yrs ago, and is in need of a severe face lift.

Cheers,

Wes


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## battleaxe (10 Dec 2006)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> I don't think the Legion was ever really intended for _serving_ members.  Instead, it emulates the camaraderie of military life with none of the apparent drawbacks.  Also, as BeachBum points out, the organization has provided tremendous services to both veterans and to the community at large.  I'd certainly want them in my corner if I hand pension problems, for instance.  However, until the thirty-something veteran of three tours in Afghanistan feels comfortable joining and participating, the RCL will continue to have difficulties.



I agree that it doesn't seem suited to serving members.  I know it certainly wasn't something I thought about when I was younger. Busy working, young families- that's what the "who has the time?" is all about.  It does hit home upon release, though.
Anybody ever see a Legion representative member at a SCAN seminar? Or received any info about the Legion during their outclearances?  These are perfect situations to put the 'bug' in a retiring/released members' ear about the Legion.  Might be a start?
It's also not until release that many problems start-pensions, VAC, things you don't think about when you're on the move.  That's when the advocacy value of the Legion becomes apparent- and when the need for a military based community connection arises.
Thanks to Beach Bum, and a few questions.
I'm with you on the changing it from within - and I think the emphasis on the 'working part' is good.  To get a membership is a meaningful gesture, but when people join, it is hoped they will become involved, as well, I suspect.
My in-laws- both very active in an Alberta branch, find that many new enrollees are very gung-ho- and then gradually drift off as the novelty does.  It is hard to balance life and other obligations.  Is this a phenomenon you deal with?  Not to downplay the membership contribution- it's a financial boost and shows support-but do you have a hard time with getting people to commit with their time?
Can you get into a little detail about what members can expect in the way of expected (hoped for) time commitment in your Branch?


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## BeachBum (10 Dec 2006)

Hi battleaxe, thanks for your interest. I'll try to give a little perspective on what is expected of a new member as far as participation in Branch activities go. 
We hope that all new members become active in Branch activities, but, for a variety of reasons, I find that approximately 30% will give their time over the long term.

I usually attempt to sit down with potential and new enrollees to gauge their level and areas of interest, and perhaps match them up with a person already doing what the new enrollee has expressed interest in. Some new members have no real interest in becoming involved in any of the traditional Legion activities. So be it....you can't win 'em all over.

Without actually witnessing the situation, I would think that if gung ho members are losing their enthusiasm and drifting off...either one of two things are happening...the member has an unrealistic view of what can be accomplished within the Legion..or...the new member is frustrated by something he/she feels is hindering progress in the Branch which the member feels will not be changed. I suspect the second hypothesis is likely closer to the truth than the first...especially if this seems to happen frequently.

We value all volunteer time donated by our members, whether it's one hour or one hundred hours a month. Due to either a members level of interest, family and work obligations, or other reasons, not all members can or are able to give many or in a lot of cases, any volunteer hours. The only thing I require of the Chairperson of the Legion Committee for which a person is volunteering is that the volunteer isn't standing around wondering why they bothered to volunteer in the first place. Nothing gets rid of volunteers quicker than the feeling they are wasting their time. People are always more than willing to give their time if they see that it makes a difference.

I don't know if this helps answer any of the questions you posed...if you need clarification or have any other questions, I'll do my best to address them.

Oh..and one other thing...approximately $30 of your membership dues leaves the Branch you're a member of. Anything over that amount which is charged for Legion Dues is used by the Branch.


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## battleaxe (11 Dec 2006)

Thanks very much.  
I'll see how things go when I am sworn in and a little more familiar with the processes-might get back to you about things after that.

Best to you,

Battleaxe


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## DAA (15 Dec 2006)

The Legion can be a useful tool to both former and current CF members, especially when it comes to benefits and medical pensions or just pensions in general.  Where else can you find a wealth of military experience and knowledge all under one roof?

The last advertisement that I recall seeing within the CF was back in 1998/99 when they were pushing the Military Member At Large (MML) program.  I had heard stories of serving CF members having difficulty in transferring their memberships between branches when they were posted.  So as I am presently not interested in being a participating member in a local branch I opted for the MML (9 years and counting), which has what I am looking for, unfettered access to all Royal Canadian Legions.  The dues I am not concerned with as I know it is going to an organization that I will one day actively support in some way, shape or form or who knows, I may even need them to support me!

So if your interested in being a Legion member without ties to a specific branch.  MML is the way to go!


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## dchom (21 Jan 2007)

I too have to agree, at our Legion membership and attendance has increased for 2 reasons; the NEW non smoking law in our area and support for our troops overseas. As a family man I like the fact I can take my kids in and not have to worry about allergies of the little ones, and they can even go with 'Grampa' and meet some of the " Ol' Vets" as they call them. One of my co workers is on the exect and has done his best to liven things up & peak public intrests.
The Mess is fine, but it's closed doors & @ times, you just want to go home, eh?
Cheers!


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## armyvern (21 Jan 2007)

When I go out with my husband, we sometimes hit the Legion. Good place to sit back, chat and enjoy the stories and the comraderie. And hey when I feel like dancing, I have no problem dragging one of the guys up with me. Because I will dance to anything. (My husband does not dance BTW).

But when a group of girls from work is heading out, and music and dancing are called for, I find myself at places like _Sweetwaters_ because there is where the type of music and style of dancing the younger generation prefers. The husband stays home. 

I guess it all comes down to what the intention behind ones night out is. If I'm looking to burn off energy (thus calories) shaking the bootie...the Legion is not my first choice. When I want to kick back and have a few and relax, the Legion factors into my choice.

I am a member, I do go. Probably not as often as I should. Then again, thanks to army.ca, I don't get out anywhere much anymore!! Blame Mr. Bobbitt.


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## TCBF (21 Jan 2007)

I joined about 25 years ago.  Every summer I got home on leave, I would renew my membership as well as my step-father's.  That was the sum of my attendance as well: A half-hour in Port Arthur Branch 5 to pay our dues and have a drink.  I supported it because it was working for the wartime veterans.

I drop in to other RCLs very seldom, but have never been turned away.  They seem happy to see a card with an 'Early Bird' sticker on it, even one from another branch!

Late 90s, some instructors from CFLRS St Jean attended a small RCL downstream.  It was across the river from an old C-I-L plant and the 'hood now consisted of aging vets who had got a job at C-I-L after WW2, then watched as their sons and daughters left Quebec for good.  Every year they paraded on Remembrance Day, and every year the parade got smaller and smaller.  A great bunch of guys. Some had been Legion members since 1945.

I will continue supporting the Legion.   The money also helps my hometown branch, and the magazine is pretty good.


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## kratz (21 Jan 2007)

I am a RCL Legion member for the past 7 years and never had a problem with sitting down to enjoy a drink or swap stories with the other members. I have moved with the service and have decided to keep my membership at the same Legion that I registered at. I mail in my fees each year with a letter with my current address and we have all been happy. 

When I travel on leave or for work, I have stopped into other Legions. As *TCBF* mentioned, they enjoy seeing the card with the ealy bird sticker. Sure, sometimes I get an odd look from the regulars to see a 30 odd year old walking in, but the mood is changing as our definition of vetrans changes. At worst I sit down and chat with the guys fo awhile and by the time I walk out they were happy I stopped in.


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## the 48th regulator (21 Jan 2007)

Well after quite a while of thinking, and reviewing some of the posts on this thread, I have filled out my application to join my local legion.

I have always been vocal about their lack of keeping up with the times, however, without input from the likes of us, how can they know they need to change?

I think I will have a good time.  I will keep everyone up to date on how this progresses.

dileas

tess


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## portcullisguy (24 Jan 2007)

You don't even have to join your _local_ Legion.  They have a "military members at large" branch, administered from Ottawa, which is specifically for serving CF members (reg and res) who wish to join but don't want to associate with any particular branch at present.

I joined 4 years ago, coincidentally when I joined the CF.

Although I don't use many of the services, I enjoy knowing that they are there to support me if I do have any needs.  In addition, there are other benefits the legion can offer, much like any social organization, such as reduced insurance rates, auto shop discounts (Speedy muffler), credit card offers (MBNA), car rental (Avis) discounts, their regular magazine.  Some branches will also offer discounts if, for example, you need to rent a banquet facility, etc.

Down the road, when you retire from military life, the transition is all the easier and you may already be well positioned to move into local executive positions, etc., if you have been a member for some time.  Plus, membership is a way of giving back, over and above contributing to the poppy drive every year, like most of us do anyway.  As an active community organization, the Legion offers so much to towns and cities everywhere, and simply by paying fees and being a member, you are already helping them a great deal.

www.legion.ca for more info.


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## the 48th regulator (8 Nov 2008)

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act;

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081108/vets_legions_081108/20081108/?hub=TorontoNewHome

As old vets die, Legions may fade away
Updated: Sat Nov. 08 2008 2:20:51 PM

The Canadian Press
TORONTO — For Al Hebburn, the Royal Canadian Legion has long been a vital part of his life, as it has been for tens of thousands of others who have served the country in war.  

But Hebburn, 92, and many other legion members wonder how long the venerable institution that bills itself as one of Canada's largest service organizations can outlast a dying breed of veterans and retain the importance it holds for him. 

"If we didn't have such an organization, I'd be lost in this world," says Hebburn, who as an infantry sergeant survived the bloody Battle of Dieppe and the invasion of Normandy in the Second World War. 

"Most of my buddies are gone. My family is all gone." 

Like many of the 500,000 men and women who returned to Canada after helping defeat the Nazis, Hebburn signed onto his local legion in Toronto and became active. 

"It's a socializing affair," Hebburn says. "It's a keep in touch with the people that I already enjoy, which is ex-soldiers and sailors and so forth." 

Now he's just one of four Second World War vets who still go to the Branch 31 hall in west-end Toronto, down from 60 a decade ago. The rest have died, moved away or become confined to home or nursing homes. 

Founded at Winnipeg in November 1925 as the Canadian Legion of the British Empire Services League, the legion incorporated a year later. It had 50,000 members then, many veterans of the trenches of the First World War. 

Today, the non-profit Royal Canadian Legion has about 350,000 members across Canada. Only about 14 per cent have actual war service and about a third have direct ties to the military. 

But membership is falling - down 25,400 from last year, which dropped 15,200 from 2006, which was down 16,800 from 2005. 

It's a worrisome trend for active members - and one not being reversed by the younger veterans of battlefields such as Afghanistan, where 14,000 have served. 

Almost 40 per cent of members are over 70 years old, and just six per cent are in the 18 to 39 age group. 

"They, unfortunately, see the legion as a lot of young people do: 'It was for them; it was for the old guys from World War 2. It was for the guys from Korea. It's not for us,"' says Doug MacNeil, president of Branch 31. 

"They don't see a thing with the legion. It's hard to connect with them." 

More and more, once-smoky legion halls where old vets swapped war stories over a beer have morphed into community social clubs with looser and looser ties to veterans. 

Bob Butt, spokesman for the Dominion Command of the Royal Canadian Legion, says the legion remains "extremely relevant" as Canada's custodian of Remembrance Day and a strong supporter of the country's veterans. 

It's not uncommon for people to get involved in service organizations only after they get older, Butt says, but legion brass has recognized the need to try to appeal to a wider cross-section of the public. 

For example, membership qualifications have been relaxed, he notes. 

"A lot of people think it's still only for the military," Butt says. "But it's not just for the military. It's for all Canadians. We've made those changes and it will take some time to kick in." 

Still, MacNeil says the legion has been slow to change in its quest to stay relevant. It needs to shed some of its traditionalist mindset, such as maintaining ties to the British monarchy, and do more to welcome new members of all backgrounds, he says. 

"If the legion really wants to stay alive, they would have to really open their doors and encompass a lot more people and offer them something," MacNeil says. 

About 1,550 legion halls are still active in Canada, but their numbers are also falling, as fewer members means fewer bodies to support the mortgage or pay for upkeep. 

It's especially tough keeping a legion hall going in bigger cities as people move away and support declines. Some branches no longer have their own hall, instead meeting in church basements as a way to keep going. 

"As the memberships die off, if they can't bring people in, an individual branch can't sustain itself," MacNeil says. 

Some municipalities have offered property-tax breaks because the halls, especially in small towns, are often a vital part of the community's social fabric - a place for weddings, dances and other social events. 

Hebburn, an obvious favourite and source of pride at Branch 31, says he won't make any predictions about the legion's future. It's not something he has much time to worry about, he says. 

The organization will survive as long as it "serves the purpose of the living people," he says, given that old soldiers like him are almost a thing of the past. 

"I would say there is no such a thing as a future generation of our kind of service people that are living today," Hebburn says. 

"They're a generation of a different type of people. Their thoughts are different." 

© 2008 CTVGlobeMedia All Rights Reserved.






Al Hebburn, 92, of Toronto, who survived the Battle of Dieppe and the invasion of Normandy as an infantryman, stands by a memorial outside Branch 31 of the Royal Canadian Legion Tuesday, Nov. 4, 2008, in Toronto. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/ Colin Perkel)

dileas

tess


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## tango22a (8 Nov 2008)

I am a member of a rural Legion Branch. Unfortunately I wasn't born here so that is "three strikes ...yer out!"  There seems to be a group of people here who feel that the Branch should be run only for their benefit and they take turns on the Executive. I used to hear people b***h because the same people were required to volunteer all the time. But when I offered to help out I was told that I was not needed. After the function was over the same people were B******g that they were the only ones doing any work! Needless to say I stopped offering to help. I still go in two or three times a month, even if I do get bad-mouthed by some as having an attitude problem as I won't let some people who have never worn a uniform other than that of the RCL run rough-shod over me.

When I renew my membership each year I make a point of letting certain people know that "I'm sorry but you guys are stuck with me for another year"

tango22a


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## Franko (9 Nov 2008)

I've been a Legion Member for over a decade and being posted from base to base does not lend itself to getting comfortable.

It seems that as soon as you start getting that "I'm home" feeling you have to pick up and start all over again.

Now onto membership. Jordan pretty much summed it up...younger troops have only one thing on the go.

I've asked a few of the troops now serving in theater if they are going to join up in the RCL to which they continuosly say "But I'm not a vet". I've told them the bennifits of being a member and I think we have a few who are looking to join upon re-deployment.

The lack of advertising/ recruiting on the RCL's behalf is only hurting themselves. What they should be doing is recruiting in St Jean and at all the deployment briefings. Let the troops know what the Legion can do for them and what it does for vets and I'm sure that the numbers will increase within a year.

Regards


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## PanaEng (9 Nov 2008)

> When I renew my membership each year I make a point of letting certain people know that "I'm sorry but you guys are stuck with me for another year"


 ;D

on another note;
I was a member while I was serving at Branch #9 in Kingston. Supposedly the biggest branch.
It had three different levels that were regularly used and they welcomed serving personnel and guest; each level had its own feel. The top was a fairly modern (mid 80's when I was there) cocktail bar; middle was a big a** dance floor and then the bar where the daily attendance seated themselves. The place was used for all kinds of functions and a lot of the people from the base used to go there.
It was a great place to go. But then the building costs escalated and they had to close.

My point is that the formula they had worked well - a bit of something for everyone.


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## GAP (9 Nov 2008)

A couple of decades ago, back in Canada making a living, I considered joining the Legion.

Learning that I had served in the USMC as a Canadian, I was ignorantly told that the Legion did not want nor need mercenaries.....I have never stepped foot in one since, nor will I in the future....

(ps: that was not just the local's opinion....that was the National's opinion....)


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## military granny (9 Nov 2008)

http://legion.ca/BB_08/08-010.htm



As you all know The Royal Canadian Legion recently completed negotiations with the Department of National Defence regarding the offer of a one year free membership to newly retired military personnel.  The program was set up in order to attract new members to join our organization and increase our Ordinary members. The first free membership was presented in June by Comrade Erl Kish at the Naval Officers Mess in Ottawa, ON.

Newly retiring military members since June 2008 are being offered a one year free membership in the Royal Canadian Legion in a branch set up here at Dominion Command. This offer of a free one year membership is included in the retirement packages of newly retired military personnel only and is not available through any other source.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (9 Nov 2008)

25th year of continuous service and when I saw what they did for my Father when he was sick and what they do for my Mother [ offer of walkers, seniors info, etc] I truly believe that it is a great organization.

...and just like any organization sometimes stupid things can happen.


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## Michael OLeary (9 Nov 2008)

military granny said:
			
		

> Newly retiring military members since June 2008 are being offered a one year free membership in the Royal Canadian Legion in a branch set up here at Dominion Command. This offer of a free one year membership is included in the retirement packages of newly retired military personnel only and is not available through any other source.



Interesting, I retired in September this year and didn't see anything from the Legion in my packages.


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## kratz (9 Nov 2008)

I will pull back my first post. Mike and just say:

But the RCL offer was for "Active Service" membrers. So Primary Reserve members who hold enough time might not be counted or may not be considered in the offer.


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## Nfld Sapper (9 Nov 2008)

kratz said:
			
		

> I will pull back my first post. Mike and just say:
> 
> But the RCL offer was for "Active Service" membrers. So Primary Reserve members who hold enough time might not be counted or may not be considered in the offer.



You do realize that Mr. O'Leary retired from either 1st, 2nd or 3rd BN THE RCR (Can't remember which one)


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## the 48th regulator (9 Nov 2008)

Alrighty,

I have filled out my membership form, available online and I am popping in to my local Legion.

I will report how things go, tomorrow evening.

dileas

tess


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## Michael OLeary (9 Nov 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> You do realize that Mr. O'Leary retired from either 1st, 2nd or 3rd BN THE RCR (Can't remember which one)



After 26 years Regular Force service I was serving at the Regimental Headquarters of The RCR when I retired (i.e., transfered back to the Primary Reserve).


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## Nfld Sapper (9 Nov 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> After 26 years Regular Force service I was serving at the Regimental Headquarters of The RCR when I retired (i.e., transfered back to the Primary Reserve).



Ooops.... sorry Mr.O'Leary.


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## kratz (9 Nov 2008)

I no longer know who recognizes the Yellow/Red banner of the Armour now ( I was blue/grey). I know from my personal experience around here, at home and job related, on a day a like today. I pulled over stood up and thought for awhile about their sacrfaice.


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## Greymatters (9 Nov 2008)

GAP said:
			
		

> Learning that I had served in the USMC as a Canadian, I was ignorantly told that the Legion did not want nor need mercenaries.....I have never stepped foot in one since, nor will I in the future....



A concept made more popular by the opinions of a certain politician, and one with many hypocritical double-standards.  

So, a person who is born in one nation but serves in the military of another is a 'mercenary'?  How is it any different than a hockey player who is born in Canada but plays in the US?  They went there for the money, but they aren't 'mercenary'?  What about a defence scientist who goes to work for a US military development firm, for a bigger paycheck of course, isn't that also 'mercenary'?  Or a Canadian politician who goes to work for a US company? Is this not also just for bucks, thus shouldn't they also be labelled 'mercenary'?


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## Michael OLeary (10 Nov 2008)

GAP said:
			
		

> Learning that I had served in the USMC as a Canadian, I was ignorantly told that the Legion did not want nor need mercenaries.....I have never stepped foot in one since, nor will I in the future....



Your comment makes me wonder if the person who told you that had ever spent a day in uniform themselves.


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## tango22a (10 Nov 2008)

Mike:

Probably more than true. This is still prevalent in some Branches as they seem to ration out a few people like this to more than a few Branches.

tango22a


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## TCBF (10 Nov 2008)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> A concept made more popular by the opinions of a certain politician, and one with many hypocritical double-standards.
> 
> So, a person who is born in one nation but serves in the military of another is a 'mercenary'?  How is it any different than a hockey player who is born in Canada but plays in the US?  They went there for the money, but they aren't 'mercenary'?  What about a defence scientist who goes to work for a US military development firm, for a bigger paycheck of course, isn't that also 'mercenary'?  Or a Canadian politician who goes to work for a US company? Is this not also just for bucks, thus shouldn't they also be labelled 'mercenary'?



- Perhaps that one RCL rep is unaware that over 15,000 Americans served in the Canadian Expeditionary Force during The First Worl War.  I doubt he would consider them to be mercenaries.


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## the 48th regulator (10 Nov 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Alrighty,
> 
> I have filled out my membership form, available online and I am popping in to my local Legion.
> 
> ...



Well Iw ent in.

Talked tot he bar tender, and stated that I would liek to become a member.

He was a bit weary, looked at me and asked what information I had.  I told him my application,a nd release id.  He looked at me, and said, "released from what prison?"  I answered that it felt liek ti was sometimes!

He laughed and said he would be able to take my paperwork, but if I wanted to, the memebership rep would be in on Thursday,and she would be able to take care of things tout sweet!

I think tha I may have found a legion that is my style!  I will keep you posted how it goes on Thursday.  I will still try to pop in tommorow, with my Blue Regimental blazer and grey flannels (well not flannel, but grey dress pants), and see how I am received, maybe I can speed things up.

dileas

tess


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## 1feral1 (11 Nov 2008)

GAP said:
			
		

> A couple of decades ago, back in Canada making a living, I considered joining the Legion.
> 
> Learning that I had served in the USMC as a Canadian, I was ignorantly told that the Legion did not want nor need mercenaries.....I have never stepped foot in one since, nor will I in the future....
> 
> (ps: that was not just the local's opinion....that was the National's opinion....)



Hypocritical or what! 

If you were a Pom, Aussie or Kiwi, they would have welcomed you with opened arms.

On the brighter side, those with opinions like that are most likey dead now, or have moved on. 

As for Mercs, what does that make me??


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## TCBF (11 Nov 2008)

Overwatch Downunder said:
			
		

> Hypocritical or what!
> 
> If you were a Pom, Aussie or Kiwi, they would have welcomed you with opened arms.
> 
> ...



- If you went down under for the money: a merc.  
- If you went down for Bondi Beach, on the other hand...

But, I know for sure you went to Australia because you thought the gun control laws in Canada were too weak.

 8)


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## observor 69 (11 Nov 2008)

Getting back to commenting on the thread title......As I remember messes have struggled for years to get servicemembers  to frequent the mess. But after work hours or mess occasions few attend. Family obligations, personal preference or whatever mess attendance is always a challenge for the PMC.
My guess is the same habit carries over when you get out. Those who like to drink at the mess/Legion do, and those who didn't frequent the mess don't frequent the Legion.
As you may have guessed I am in the latter group.


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## 1feral1 (12 Nov 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - If you went down under for the money: a merc.
> - If you went down for Bondi Beach, on the other hand...
> 
> But, I know for sure you went to Australia because you thought the gun control laws in Canada were too weak.
> ...



I come here for the white pointers on Bondi Beach and the vegemite sangers, of course all washed down with XXXX(at the time a la 1995 'twas VB) or Bundy n Coke, oh and we cannot forget lamingtons for dessert. All dinki-di of course, ha! ;D

EDIT, Gun control!! I am still waiting for a 'permit to acquire' for my Martini-Enfiled .303 Cav carbine, yes a permit to pick it up, takes about 2 wks.


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## John Nayduk (12 Nov 2008)

To comment on the title of this thread...
I was an ordinary member for a few years but here in Windsor, Ontario I was never really made to feel welcome in Legion branches.  I was "only a peacekeeping vet".  I saw associates treated better than serving members of the military so why would any of us want to join?  There is even a Legion down here that had a couple of guns outside but they were donated to a museum because the guns were "too military" for the people running the Legion Branch.  I agree with the aims but somewhere down the line I think they lost the vision.  Now that all of the WW2 vets are dying off, the Legion doesn't have the membership base and many branches are closing.  If they had embraced the people who served this country after WW2 then they wouldn't be in the situation that they're in now.  There wouldn't have been a need to form a Korea Vets Association or a Peacekeeping Vets Association or a Viet Nam Vets Association because we would have felt welcome in the Royal Canadian Legion branches all across this country.  I was looking at the Legion magazine at the PRT the other day and saw that the national leadership for the Legion only has two people on the board that have served overseas in the military.  I don't know if the VFW in the States has this problem but I've always heard that a WW2 vet will sit down with a Korea and Viet Nam vet and that they treat each other as equal brothers, all having served their country.  Too bad I never felt this at our RCL branches.
I hope that this is not the norm across Canada.  I will always buy a poppy (usually several) every year but I don't think I'll ever buy another membership in the Legion.


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## tango22a (12 Nov 2008)

Knowing  Another Recce Guy personally I can only second his comments. He is really accurate when he says the Legion has lost its point of aim. It seems now a days that the Legion is mainly aimed at being a social club only for the benefit of itself. Mind you a lot of charity work wouldn't get done except for the Legion and I have nothing but praise for my Legion Pension Representative.but the Legion seems to have turned its face away from the serving soldier and the vet who has served. IMHO I seem to see a bias developing towards Associate"s wants and needs.Hopefully I am wrong, but this is the way I personally see it at this time.

tango22a

P.S.: Kudos to John for telling like it is!


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## Michael OLeary (12 Nov 2008)

Another Recce Guy said:
			
		

> To comment on the title of this thread...
> I was an ordinary member for a few years but here in Windsor, Ontario I was never really made to feel welcome in Legion branches.  I was "only a peacekeeping vet".  I saw associates treated better than serving members of the military so why would any of us want to join?  There is even a Legion down here that had a couple of guns outside but they were donated to a museum because the guns were "too military" for the people running the Legion Branch.  I agree with the aims but somewhere down the line I think they lost the vision.  Now that all of the WW2 vets are dying off, the Legion doesn't have the membership base and many branches are closing.  If they had embraced the people who served this country after WW2 then they wouldn't be in the situation that they're in now.  There wouldn't have been a need to form a Korea Vets Association or a Peacekeeping Vets Association or a Viet Nam Vets Association because we would have felt welcome in the Royal Canadian Legion branches all across this country.  I was looking at the Legion magazine at the PRT the other day and saw that the national leadership for the Legion only has two people on the board that have served overseas in the military.  I don't know if the VFW in the States has this problem but I've always heard that a WW2 vet will sit down with a Korea and Viet Nam vet and that they treat each other as equal brothers, all having served their country.  Too bad I never felt this at our RCL branches.
> I hope that this is not the norm across Canada.  I will always buy a poppy (usually several) every year but I don't think I'll ever buy another membership in the Legion.



ARG,

Well put.  In particular, I agree that it has most likely been the Legion's general indifference to those ex-service members since Korea that has contributed to the rise of so many smaller veteran's groups based on service experiences since the early 50s.  Sadly, that trend only serves to weaken the collective voice of the *Veteran* across the country.  The RCL may be achieving good works of a general nature, but if any serving or retired soldier can't walk through the door of any Legion and feel welcomed, then the question needs to be asked"  _"Who, exactly, are they there for?"_

Mike


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Nov 2008)

I have NEVER walked into a Legion and not felt welcome, mind you, an area can't speak for is Windsor.

Sometimes though, I think we expect too much........all I want is a drink, a few nods, another drink, and off I go.
If I wanted social time, I would've brought a friend.


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## tango22a (12 Nov 2008)

Gentlemen:

Maybe I am expecting too much. I wasn't born,raised or schooled at my location so automatically am outsider to be shunned. The majority of the membership ARE Associates so again "low man on totem pole" I may not have the world's most pleasing personality but I do take the trouble to treat people as I would like to be treated until they try to bad-mouth me. This is not the only Branch where this occurs since I have seen it in other places also.I did my time mainly in the Reserve and wear my CD with pride.Members of my family have served and continue to serve both in Canada and overseas and one of my sons expects to go on Roto 1 in 2010.

I only remain a member to twist the tails of a certain few, e.g.: "sorry boys you're stuck with me for another year!" There are some really fine people in the Branch, it's just those few who spoil it.

tango22a

P.S.: Bruce, you shouldn't have to take a friend...You should be welcomed by the Branch,


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Nov 2008)

tango22a said:
			
		

> There are some really fine people in the Branch, it's just those few who spoil it.



Just like any organization, 2% will probably be absolute morons because 2% of humans are absolute morons....


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## Old Sweat (12 Nov 2008)

Our local legion is a nice, chatty place that puts on all sorts of community events. The reception after the remembrance ceremony yesterday was typical. I talked to some of the troops from Petawawa who were part of the parade and they were impressed by the friendly reception and the food. It also is small enough that most everybody knows everybody else. There was a lot of pride expressed for our local Hong Kong vet who was unable to lay a wreath yesterday although he was there in his wheelchair; his grandkids did it for him.

Having said that, I am not a joiner for the sake of joining, but do support their activities. Bruce, they probably would serve you, even if you didn't have a friend in the world.


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## tango22a (12 Nov 2008)

Bruce:

Sorry,  guess I was born a boat-rocker!

Cheers,

tango22a


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Nov 2008)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> Having said that, I am not a joiner for the sake of joining, but do support their activities. Bruce, they probably would serve you, even if you didn't have a friend in the world.



No they wouldn't, I still belong to Merrickville branch.... ;D




			
				tango22a said:
			
		

> Bruce:
> 
> Sorry,  guess I was born a boat-rocker!
> 
> ...



Which is fine, if the people there now are acting like idiots, by all means, rock em.


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## Old Sweat (12 Nov 2008)

The Merrickville Branch just managed to get itself out of a huge pile of crapoola. The story is a little murky but the local media in September reported that the council had authorized the swap of the 25-pounder which was somewhat run down at the village's war memorial to a museum for an war trophy gun. Some legion members, the historical society and the RCA all went ballistic and people began the blame game. Short story: the 25-pounder re-appeared a couple of days before Remembrance Day all nicely refurbished and was back at the memorial for the service. I doubt that the real story will ever come out, and frankly I don't care to bother digging for it.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Nov 2008)

That gun was a shame, I had already started sending feelers out to try and get it fixed up when we got the call to move again......

I'm glad its been done up, must visit at Christmas.[while frequenting the Goose and Gridiron of course]


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## Old Sweat (12 Nov 2008)

Don't forget O'Heaphy's Irish Pub in Kemptville.

PM inbound with the dark and dirty re the 25-pounder.


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## 1feral1 (14 Nov 2008)

Meanwhile talking about national Vet's associations, here is the Australian one. http://www.rsl.org.au/

It is a thriving live entity for all vets, serving and former ADF members. Years ago the RSL seen its own demise on the cards, with WW1 Vets dying off, and the WW2 and VN Vets catching up, and acted to save it. Now, and being honest, I have never seen a poor club. All appear to do well within ther own communities. Maybe the RCL could learn something, but it may be too late from some Canadian Branches. Even in centres like Saskatoon, Regina, and Weyburn, these prairie clubs barely exist of what they once were not so long ago. Canadian clubs too should shead their arrogance WRT politics, or the new generation of Vets/soldiers will give them wide berth. 

I think some national action must be taken.

Here is my local RSL on the island I live www.bribiersl.com.au , with a population of about 16,000. Our club has won best RSL in Queensland more than once! Navigate around and have a look, also please haev a look in detail of the national website.

I have been an RSL member since 1995, and I have alawys been welcomed no matter where I go.

Regards,

OWDU


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## TCBF (15 Nov 2008)

- Some of your 'Member's Benefits' look interesting.  Diggers Bottle Shop offering a bottle of wine for $3.25, for example!


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