# Germany Discovers a War in Afghanistan



## Blackadder1916 (9 Sep 2008)

Here is a well written piece from SPEIGEL of the German view of the war in Afghanistan.

*Expanding Violence:  Germany Discovers a War in Afghanistan*


> By SPIEGEL Staff 09/08/2008 05:35 PM
> 
> For years, Germans have preferred to see their country's presence in Afghanistan as armed development assistance. That myth is now becoming more difficult to maintain as the violence spreads to the north where the Germans are based.
> 
> ...


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## Blackadder1916 (9 Sep 2008)

And part 2 of the piece.

Expanding Violence  Part 2:*'Holy War against the Germans in Kunduz'*


> By SPIEGEL Staff 09/08/2008
> 
> Kunduz, an old market town and trading hub, has been the scene of bloody atrocities again and again in the last few decades. Hatred is deep-seated, and memories are long. When they recaptured the city in November 2001, Northern Alliance troops killed thousands of members of the Pashtun Taliban, even though the religious warriors had already surrendered. Instead of treating the Taliban fighters like prisoners of war, the Northern Alliance locked them in containers, where they suffocated or died of thirst. For their part, the Taliban killed thousands of ethnic Tajiks and Uzbeks when they took over the country in the mid-1990s.
> 
> ...


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## geo (9 Sep 2008)

well... guess that Germany, like France, has discovered that this war on terror has all the makings of "WAR".

Bit of a reality check is a good thing... in the long run.


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## Dariusz (9 Sep 2008)

I guess it is what it is... the German population and politicians still do not want to accept that the Bundeswehr is capable of patricipating in war!
The old complex: loss of WWII > "evil" German military of the past> we can not allow our soldier to ever kill again!
As a former German soldier it is a little bit of a shame too see that the German politicians & public are denying NATO their full military cooperation, knowing that the Bundeswehr has the technology & knowhow to be a "full-fledged" military partner. :crybaby:


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## geo (9 Sep 2008)

Dariusz,
I figure that Germany & Japan were put through a "demilitarization" program in 1945 that was successful beyond anyone's wildest dreams.  Facing one's past and staring down old evils is a good thing - long overdue if you ask me


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## time expired (10 Sep 2008)

GEO very good in the shortrun,however the Germans took the
entirely wrong lesson from their wars,namely that all wars are
wrong,the real lesson is that fighting wars for an aggressive dictator
are wrong and fighting for a democratic ideal are right.Insofar as
the Germans were handed their democracy on a silver plate paid
for by the thousands of allied dead,from both wars I think it is 
about time they got off the pot and shared in the defense of their
and our democracies.
I sometimes wonder,in retrospect,if we made a serious mistake
in 1945 and we should have drawn our "line in the sand" on the
Rhine and let the Russians deal with the Germans.Their attitude
would have taken a huge adjustment IMHO.
                                               Regards


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## George Wallace (10 Sep 2008)

time expired said:
			
		

> GEO very good in the shortrun,however the Germans took the
> entirely wrong lesson from their wars,namely that all wars are
> wrong,the real lesson is that fighting wars for an aggressive dictator
> are wrong and fighting for a democratic ideal are right.Insofar as
> ...



I partially agree with you on most of that.  The Rhine bit is way off and we would probably be still looking at a strong Warsaw Pact today, had that been the case, as it would have totally fractured Europe.  It would have completely destroyed Western Europe as we knew it, creating instead the Northern Baltic states; Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland, completely cut off from the Southern European states.  It may have even segregated the UK from European politics altogether.

Getting back to the current West Germany of the Cold War era, the Germans were quite active in NATO defence.  With the fall of the Wall, NATO's directions and policies changed quickly.  The German Government restrictions and role of its' military did not.  They are slowly changing now.


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## geo (10 Sep 2008)

IIRC, Gen George Patton wanted to rearm the Germans and turn Western Allies & Germans against the Soviet scourge in the east.  Not 100% certain where that would have taken us but.....this is the world we have today.

I concurr with you George that the German Gov't is slowly coming to understand the predicament that we/they are in and will, in their good time, respond to the threat.


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