# Reserve Forces Foreign Service Arrangements



## The Bread Guy (3 Mar 2007)

Mods:  Couldn't find this elsewhere, but feel free to merge elsewhere....

*Canadian and Australian reservists agree on Foreign Service*
Government of Canada news release, 2 Mar 07
Article Link

(BRUSSELS) – Canada and Australia have signed an agreement that allows Reserve Force members from each country to serve in the other country’s military. At NATO Headquarters today, Major-General Herb Petras, Canada’s Chief Reserves and Cadets signed a memorandum of understanding with Australian Major-General Neil Wilson, Assistant Chief of Defence Force (Reserves) and Head Reserve Policy. The document outlines a Reserve Force Foreign Service Arrangement between the two countries.

“It is to our advantage to have Canadian reservists serve both at home and overseas. This new agreement will help us retain members who might otherwise leave the military because of their move to Australia. When they return home, they’ll have current skills and experience, and that’s a significant benefit for our military.” says Maj.-Gen. Petras. His colleague Maj.-Gen. Wilson adds “The chance to serve and train in Canada is going to help us offer a more comprehensive training program for our reservists – and we look forward to having Canadian reservists join our units. This is an efficient way to retain more reservists, and contribute to our countries’ joint security.”

Reservists may become temporary residents in an allied nation because of a job transfer or to attend an educational institution. This new arrangement will allow Canada’s 25,000 part-time soldiers, sailors and aircrew, and Australia’s 20,000 reservists to continue their training and military service during their temporary residence in each other’s lands. A similar agreement was signed between Canada and the United Kingdom in 2005, and Australia and the United Kingdom are working on their own foreign service arrangement.

The document signing is a highlight of the ongoing meeting of NATO’s National Reserve Force Committee (NRFC). With reservists in NATO countries playing an increasing role in international military missions, the NRFC’s work is critical in strengthening the operational readiness of NATO reserve forces by broadening the exchange of information about mobilization (organization, systems, experiences, etc.), organization of peacetime Reserve Forces and the integration, motivation and transformation of Reserve Forces.

-30-


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## Dissident (3 Mar 2007)

What are the administrative details?

It will probalby take a while for my CoC to get on top of this. So I wonder, are you getting paid throught RPSR? Same rate? Pension? PER?


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## IntlBr (3 Mar 2007)

Any chance this will extend to the British Isles in the near future?  I may be spending a semester with my university in Scotland/England - I'd love to keep up with the training, especially since the place in Scotland that I could go would be quite close to where the sister regiment trains!


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## BDTyre (3 Mar 2007)

You must have missed the last bit of the article: "A similar agreement was signed between Canada and the United Kingdom in 2005..."


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## IntlBr (3 Mar 2007)

Yep, looks like I did!

Thanks!


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## BDTyre (3 Mar 2007)

This is nice, because now I could go live with my relatives in Australia and not worry about leaving the army!  ;D


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## Lazy W (3 Mar 2007)

"It will probalby take a while for my CoC to get on top of this. So I wonder, are you getting paid throught RPSR? Same rate? Pension? PER?"

When I did it (twice), I faxed pay sheets back to my home unit, who processed them.  Assessments were completed by the CoC of the host unit.


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## AJFitzpatrick (3 Mar 2007)

Just curious what exactly Australia's status within NATO is ?

"The document signing is a highlight of the ongoing meeting of NATO’s National Reserve Force Committee (NRFC)."

Is Australia is a de facto member?


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## bcbarman (3 Mar 2007)

well, now I am just going to go and post this up in Whistler, I might be able to get a few trained troops that want to do more then snowboard.


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## tomahawk6 (3 Mar 2007)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> Just curious what exactly Australia's status within NATO is ?
> 
> "The document signing is a highlight of the ongoing meeting of NATO’s National Reserve Force Committee (NRFC)."
> 
> Is Australia is a de facto member?



Oz is not a member of NATO.


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## Edward Campbell (3 Mar 2007)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Oz is not a member of NATO.



But Australia and New Zealand were, back when I served, frequent 'guests' at some NATO meetings.

In fact in one group, which I chaired - it (the chair) rotated, nation-by-nation every two years, a Kiwi was the chair of one of the sub-groups.  The ABCA is (was) very, very influential in many NATO groups and the CCEB (Combined Communications Electronics Board) (the last 'holdover' from the WWII _Combined Chiefs of Staff Committee_, I think) was even more influential within its specialized areas of responsibility.


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## niner domestic (3 Mar 2007)

Australia and NATO signed an agreement way back in 2005.  http://www.spacewar.com/2005/050401061536.dgdq2fwi.html


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## tomahawk6 (3 Mar 2007)

Maybe I am quibbling but Australia IS NOT a member nation of NATO. There are letters of cooperation but they are not a member. Why would Australia or Japan want to be a member of NATO ? Its a europecentric defense alliance. Australia has a defense agreement with Singapore and Malaysia. Of course Australia and the US have agreements.

http://www.nato.int/structur/countries.htm


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## AJFitzpatrick (3 Mar 2007)

Thanks all for the answers/thoughts


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## darmil (3 Mar 2007)

That would be cool to do some training in Australia.Wonder how that would pan out for civilian work.I could use my journeyman certification as a welder.I guess watch and shoot!




> well, now I am just going to go and post this up in Whistler, I might be able to get a few trained troops that want to do more then snowboard.


I wish I was in Whistler good times, good times.After TF08 I'll be moving to B.C... ahh the powder. ;D


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## medaid (4 Mar 2007)

This is great! I was going to propose a lovely exchange between my unit and one of the reserve units in Aus, and frankly this signing just made everything a heck of alot easier!


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## tomahawk6 (4 Mar 2007)

Australia in summertime and miss out on a Canadian winter. ;D


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## Trooper Hale (4 Mar 2007)

And its all thanks to me... 
Well not really, but hey! I'm more then willing to have been the test case. Anyone who wants to come down here i'd say go for it. We do a hell of a lot of stuff and from what i saw of Canadian Reserves you'll do a hell of a lot of stuff you wouldnt do otherwise.
Remember to keep going Reg's in mind though.


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## Romeo Echo Mike Echo (4 Mar 2007)

This is a great idea. When I was a young and skinny Militia Rat this would have been perfect. Oz is to use an American term a Major Non-NATO Ally and An ABCA ( American,British,Canadian,Australian/NZ ) country. What about other Commonwealth nations?


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## cameron (4 Mar 2007)

I've always felt the program which allows full-time members of the Canadian, US, UK, Australian and NZ armed forces to serve on exchange duty with each others forces should be extended to the reserves so I think this is an excellent idea.  I think Canada should explore a similar arrangement for reservists with New Zealand as well, if that is not being looked at already.  Cheers.


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## medaid (4 Mar 2007)

Hale, could you please provide me with a list of Reserve medical units (doesn't matter if they're army, navy or air if there is that distinction over there). I tried a search on the ADF website, but I came up empty, so any help would be great! Cheers!


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## pie_face (4 Mar 2007)

There is a difference, each of the services maintain their own medical units, http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/default.asp?p=184, will take you to the unit locator for the army. It is worth noting that over here all recruiting is done centrally rather than by the individual units themselves. I'm not sure how, in practice, this works for exchanges. I'm sure an e-mail to adf recruiting outlining your situation will generate some useful advice.


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## medaid (5 Mar 2007)

Yup been there done that, but unfortunately Aus is too big and too unfamiliar for me to look through EVERY single city & province, hence I asked the lovely Hale to provide me with some guidance. However, a quick e-mail to recting certainly would help! Cheers!


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## 1feral1 (5 Mar 2007)

This is the only AGR (Active General Reserve) Medical Unit in Sydney.

Other AGR Units have medics attached as such, and there is literally heaps of AGR units within Sydney alone, including a Commando unit.

Here is the address, or do a google search for more.

Also try searching for 2 Div or 5 Bde for more units, this may help you hopefully.

Officer Commanding
Medical Coy
5 CSSB
1 Hills Street
Banksmeadow, NSW 2017
Australia

Cheers,

Wes


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## medaid (5 Mar 2007)

That's a great start Wes, thanks! When I get down under, if I can get this exchange working, I'll buy you a beer  or two


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## medaid (6 Mar 2007)

I'm going to contact the Australian Consulate for this but I thought I'd ask Wes or someone else who might have a know.

In light that we are now able to travel to the great land down under to conduct training, which type of visa do we require? there is a huge list of visas, and I'm just not too sure what exactly we need. Anyways, anyone know?


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## Lazy W (6 Mar 2007)

WRT to visa, since this program is for reserves, I would imagine that you would be in Oz for some other reason (such as University or work).  In that case, you would need the visa for whatever your primary purpose in the country was for.  I was on a student visa the entire time


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## medaid (6 Mar 2007)

Lazy W... you really havent answered my question....


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## downinOZ (10 Mar 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Lazy W... you really havent answered my question....



He has actually.  But here's the info page for visas.

http://www.dimia.gov.au/immigration.htm

There is a big stir up about the...136 visa (I think) which is the skilled worker visa.  But this is a pretty good opportunity for anybody who's doing a university exchange (USask Education and Kinesiology programs) or a holiday trip.  I tried a few years ago on my exchange to organise this and things were in the works back then.  Great program.  For anybody going to Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney, Perth, Adelaide or New Castle, bring your ice hockey gear.  

And everytime some friend emails me a bit of news about some new coolguy unit forming, I get more and more depressed about getting married.  The Jack Daniels costs more here, the surfing isn't good ALL the time, and trying to get into the reg force sucks - medical standards are much ...older (colour perception).  

Anybody looking to go for a trip down to Melbourne drop my a line (especially around Canada Day - enclaves of Canucks all over the place).

Chimo


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## Aerobicrunner (23 Jul 2008)

This is a great initiative to those reservists who are undertaking university programs or whose civilian company have sent them to work in Australia or Great Britain/Northern Ireland.  At my last unit there was a Navy Reservist Musician who went to Australia to do her Masters in Music and she was able to parade with the Band of the Royal Australian Navy.  She represented Canada well and provided some surprised looks with her slightly different uniform at the band performances.

CANFORGEN 129/08 VCDS 021 151514Z JUL 08 - PRIMARY RESERVE CLASS A FOREIGN SERVICE
http://vcds.dwan.dnd.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2008/129-08_e.asp

REFS: A. MOU BETWEEN THE DEPT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE OF CANADA AND THE MOD OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND 
CONCERNING THE RESERVE FORCES FOREIGN SERVICE ARRANGEMENT DATED 17 MAY 05 (DND 2000052201) 
B. MOU BETWEEN THE AUSTRALIAN DEPT OF DEFENCE AND THE DEPT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE OF CANADA CONCERNING THE RESERVE FORCES FOREIGN 
SERVICE ARRANGEMENT DATED 20 JUN 07 (DND 2007013432) 


THE CHIEF OF RESERVES AND CADETS (C RES AND CDTS) SIGNED THE TWO REFERENCE DOCUMENTS FOR CANADA ENABLING MEMBERS OF THE PRIMARY RESERVE (P RES) FROM CANADA, THE UK, OR AUSTRALIA TO PARADE IN THE OTHERS COUNTRY WHILE MAINTAINING THEIR CLASS A PARADING STATUS AT THEIR HOME UNITS. THESE ARRANGEMENTS ENSURE DUTY OF CARE FOR MEMBERS PARADING IN THE HOST NATION, A CONTINUATION OF SERVICE WITH THE PARENT UNIT WHILE OUT OF THE COUNTRY, AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMPARE, AND CONTRAST TRAINING WITH ALLIED NATIONS. THE AIM OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROMULGATE THE PROCESS REQUIRED TO ACCESS THE RESERVE FORCES FOREIGN SERVICE ARRANGEMENTS (RFFSA) WITH THE UK AND AUSTRALIA AND TO ENSURE THAT P RES CLASS A RESERVISTS ARE AWARE OF THE OPTION TO PARADE OUTSIDE OF CANADA WHEN THE NECESSITY ARISES DUE TO CIVILIAN CIRCUMSTANCES REQUIRING AN INTERNATIONAL RELOCATION 


APPROVAL AND COORDINATION OF THE MOU S IS DONE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL BETWEEN THE SIGNATORY MOD STAFFS. C RES AND CDTS IS THE NATIONAL AUTHORITY FOR RESERVISTS FROM WITHIN CANADA AND IS ALSO THE AUTHORITY FOR RESERVISTS FROM OUTSIDE OF CANADA. THE DIRECTOR RESERVES (D RES) IS THE OFFICE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE MOU S ON BEHALF OF C RES AND CDTS 


P RES MEMBERS MAY APPLY THROUGH THEIR CHAIN OF COMMAND TO D RES FOR PERMISSION TO PARADE OUTSIDE OF CANADA. PERSONNEL RELOCATING TO THE UK OR AUSTRALIA WILL BE ADMINISTERED USING THE EXISTING MOUS. D RES WILL MAKE APPLICATION TO INTERNATIONAL STAFFS ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT AND NOTIFY THE CHAIN OF COMMAND WHEN PERMISSIONS ARE IN PLACE ENABLING FOLLOW-ON DIRLAUTH FOR SENDING AND RECEIVING UNITS 


PRIMARY RESERVISTS RELOCATING TO COUNTRIES OTHER THAN THE UK OR AUSTRALIA MAY APPLY FOR CONSIDERATION TO PARADE ON A CLASS A BASIS USING ONE OF THE EXISTING MOU S AS A TEMPLATE. D RES WILL THEN DETERMINE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS WHETHER IT IS POSSIBLE FOR A PARADING ARRANGEMENT TO BE MADE OR NOT 


THE GUIDE TO USING THE EXISTING RESERVE FORCES FOREIGN SERVICE ARRANGEMENTS CAN BE FOUND ON THE D RES WEBSITE AT: HTTP://VCDS.MIL.CA/DRES/PUBS/COMPENSATION/NEWMOU UNDERSCORE E.ASP


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## blacktriangle (23 Jul 2008)

Say I just wanted to go on "vacation" to AUS for a year or so, can I still apply for this or is it only for people being forced by work or education requirements to go there? 

I can't look on the DIN or whatever it is...

Thanks.


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## CountDC (23 Jul 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> Say I just wanted to go on "vacation" to AUS for a year or so, can I still apply for this or is it only for people being forced by work or education requirements to go there?
> 
> I can't look on the DIN or whatever it is...
> 
> Thanks.



copied from the site, looks like no:

All members of the Primary Reserve or UK Reserve Forces relocating temporarily to either Canada or the UK as a result of a job transfer or secondment with civilian employers, or for purposes of attending an educational institution may apply under the provisions of the MOU through their chain of command


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## aesop081 (23 Jul 2008)

popnfresh said:
			
		

> Say I just wanted to go on "vacation" to AUS for a year or so, can I still apply for this or is it only for people being forced by work or education requirements to go there?
> 
> I can't look on the DIN or whatever it is...
> 
> Thanks.



Are you not doing a CT to the RegF anyways ?


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## exgunnertdo (23 Jul 2008)

Applying common sense...(OK, dangerous, I know)...How could/why would the PRes limit your ability to take advantage of this based on why you are going?  Another example that doesn't fall into the examples listed - say you are the PRes spouse/child of a RegF member posted on an exchange, or the spouse/child of a civilian being transfered there/studying there.  I think the website info could be "examples" and not all-inclusive.  The benefits to the CF and the member are still there.


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## CountDC (23 Jul 2008)

exgunnertdo said:
			
		

> Applying common sense...(OK, dangerous, I know)...How could/why would the PRes limit your ability to take advantage of this based on why you are going?  Another example that doesn't fall into the examples listed - say you are the PRes spouse/child of a RegF member posted on an exchange, or the spouse/child of a civilian being transfered there/studying there.  I think the website info could be "examples" and not all-inclusive.  The benefits to the CF and the member are still there.



directly from the memo of understanding (MOU):

The RFFSA will apply to a Reserve Force Member who is in the Receiving State attending school, working for a civilian employer on temporary assignment, or while accompanying a family member who is attending school or on a temporary work assignment.


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## blacktriangle (23 Jul 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Are you not doing a CT to the RegF anyways ?



Yeah I got a call today from Ottawa wondering why I'm still waiting to be interviewed etc...my unit has not updated my file or sent the required documents to the required pers, even after I gave it to them...Ottawa wants to fast track me, but it all hinges on a few people doing work, and need I say as a Pte I have little pull when it comes to getting stuff done. 

THUS, I have money, I have time...but I'm still looking for my adventure. I guess I could always take a basket weaving course in Aus and do this...


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## exgunnertdo (23 Jul 2008)

CountDC said:
			
		

> directly from the memo of understanding (MOU):
> 
> The RFFSA will apply to a Reserve Force Member who is in the Receiving State attending school, working for a civilian employer on temporary assignment, or while accompanying a family member who is attending school or on a temporary work assignment.



Ah - that's clear, then.  The "vacation" thing wasn't so much a concern, but I would have thought that dependents should be included.  Makes more sense now.  Thanks.


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## Snakedoc (8 Aug 2008)

CountDC said:
			
		

> directly from the memo of understanding (MOU):
> 
> The RFFSA will apply to a Reserve Force Member who is in the Receiving State attending school, working for a civilian employer on temporary assignment, or while accompanying a family member who is attending school or on a temporary work assignment.



I may be pulling a technicality but for the provision 'working for a civilian employer on a temporary assignment,' can the civilian employer potentially be a foreign (ie Australian) one?  For someone without citizenship in the foreign country, a work visa would require that employment be a 'temporary assignment.'


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## GUNN (14 Apr 2009)

Hey guys, I'm currently a reservist in Toronto. I am planning to move to Australia in December. I am curious as to how I would go about getting attached to an ADF reserve unit in Sydney? A couple buddies of mine are trying to do the same as we speak, but they said that it is difficult and taking forever to figure out. I figure if I get a jump on this, maybe by December they will be ready for me. I am planning to return to Canada after about 24 months, as my civvie career dictates. Any ideas on how to get the ball rolling? Thanks.


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## George Wallace (14 Apr 2009)

Just off the top of my head, I would suggest several things.  Go through your Chain of Command with your request.  Find a "Sister" or Affiliated Unit, if you can.  Contact the Australian Embassy/Consulate for information.  Contact the Canadian Defence Attache (through the proper channels).  Talk to Australian Troops and see if they have any ideas of what process to take.

Exchanges have occurred in the past and will continue to happen, so you have some hope.  Hopefully, it can be figured out before you have to be back.   ;D


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## 1feral1 (14 Apr 2009)

Greetings for a sunny but wet day here on the east coast of Queensland in Australia.

A plan does exist for the AABC countries to do this 'exchange' (there is an actual agreement between nations --- try doing a search for this on here as I am sure thats where I read it), best suited for those who would be temporary in Australia, that being for study or employment, etc. However if you are moving to Australia, best to do a lateral transfer and come a board that way.

Plenty of 'Choco' (Army Reseve) units in Sydney. Pretty much all the basic Corps and Combat Arms such as Inf, Engr, and Arty. Armd lost their M113s, trading them in for 6x6 recce vehicles. There is CSS, thats 5 CSSB  (like a Svc Bn - huge and a mass of confusion), plus many units will have their own sub-CSS atts, such as Tpt, Medics, Sigs, RAEME etc.

Try www.defencejobs.gov.au for starters.

Good luck,

OWDU

EDIT: Do you know what suburb you will be living in? Sydney is huge pretty much 100km x 80km rectangle of a ratsnest full of angry unfriendly people, and traffic does NOT move well. I lived there for 10 yrs (at Cronulla) before coming here to Queensland.

If you want, PM me and I will get you some direct telephone numbers for recruitment, so you can ring direct if you go the recruitment angle. Time is Z+10 here (AEST). 

Since you are Infantry there is 1/19 RNSWR at Sutherland, 4/3 RNSWR at Holsworthy, 1 Cdo Reg't at the northern subs, and Sydney University Reg't (SUR) near Randwick. There is more. Try googling these and see what you get. I can then get the phone number for that Trg WO from a unit you choose. 

I do beleive that 4/3 also has a Coy at a MUD (Multi User Depot) in Kogorah, sharing with a RAA unit, and also a Coy in Sutherland at another MUD, 2/17 still might be operating out of 8 Bde's Timor Bks off Kissing Pt Rd in Dundas.  Hope this helps.


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## dapaterson (14 Apr 2009)

The MoU with the UK is a start point: http://www.vcds-vcemd.forces.gc.ca/dres/pb/nm-npe/index-eng.asp

As long as your current unit is willing to pay you abroad there shouldn't be a problem - there have been Canadian Reservists in Australia before under similar circumstances.


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## Aerobicrunner (15 Apr 2009)

We do have an Reserve MOU with Australia with a date of 20 Jun 07.  It is located on the Intranet here:  http://vcds.mil.ca/cres_cdt/dres/00native/Australia-Canada-RFFSA-MOU_e.pdf


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## Trooper Hale (16 Apr 2009)

Even if it seems like a challange mate, could i VERY strongly suggest that you follow this up as hard as you can? 
I did it the other way around, although i was a Reservist on full time service, and absolutely loved my time in Canada back in '06. I see it as one of the defining periods of my life and it helped me fall even furthur in love with the Army. I loved every minute i was over there for and would do it again in an instant.
Even though your a dirty grunt, our grunt choco's do some pretty great stuff and get some really good training done. You'd find it a huge eye opener (The aussie bush will blow your MIND) and you'll hopefully go home with a F88 Steyr Qualifcation which is always a good talking point.
Goodluck mate and PLEASE, work your arse off to get this, you wont regret it.


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## GUNN (18 Apr 2009)

do you think I'll be able to go on any ADF courses down there?


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## Trooper Hale (18 Apr 2009)

What sort of courses are you talking about? (By the way, they're Army courses, we're not amalgated like your CF). Keep in mind you'll be attached to the Reserves where things are a little more lax then their Regular brothers, having said that though, you probably wont be sent away for an Army Junior leaders course or something flash like that. You might, depending on how its being run, get onto a support company course, like mortars, recon or the like. You'd have to show people that your a clever type of chap though and that you deserve it.
You'd definately be able to get out into the bush for a bush exercise.
All this can only happen if you get a good regiment or battalion and if they're doing things at that time.

EDIT to add, if your over when they've got a range shoot you will more then likely get taught the Steyr and the Minimi and get weapon qual's too


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## GUNN (19 Apr 2009)

Sounds good to me! Is there any particularly good regiment/company in or around Sydney that stands out?


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## Trooper Hale (19 Apr 2009)

Your best bet, i reckon, is to research it on the internet. But if you could arrange it, you could do a lot worse then go to the 1 Commando. They're Reserves but from what i've heard they're very good. Email people though, chase it up and make some calls. Thats your best bet.


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## CorporalMajor (19 Apr 2009)

You know, even though it's expensive I've known a lot of people go over to AUS to study something.  For me it would be a dream come true.  I always wanted to go to AUS plus the Aussie Army are PRO. 

Wonder if the British Army Res do something like this as well.


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## GUNN (19 Apr 2009)

yeah, it'd be nice to get my aussie wings while I'm down there too! wonder if I could get some jumps in with those boys (probably wishful thinking) :


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## CorporalMajor (20 Apr 2009)

GUNN said:
			
		

> yeah, it'd be nice to get my aussie wings while I'm down there too! wonder if I could get some jumps in with those boys (probably wishful thinking) :


A friend of mine who went ROTP got Dutch para wings somehow. 

So who knows.


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## aesop081 (20 Apr 2009)

CorporalMajor said:
			
		

> plus the Aussie Army are PRO.



What are we ? Chopped liver ?


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## CorporalMajor (20 Apr 2009)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> What are we ? Chopped liver ?


Far from it.....I love being in the CF. I belong to Canada and that's that, never want it otherwise. My favorite outfit is Canada's uniform, I still look forward to wearing it after three years.  

Our guys beat the USMC Sniper record. JTF2 is world renowned as a versatile, and downright fearsome special forces unit. VIMY RIDGE. The list goes on. We have many things to be proud of. 

But if there was an army I would do exchange with, it'd easily be the Aussies if not the Brits. We're pro, all I'm saying, those guys are real pro as well.


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## downunder (20 Apr 2009)

Hi all,

Having been in the Canadian Army in the 80's and then joining up  in 2000 down here first in the reserves and now the regs, i can put in my 5 cents. (we don't use any cents less than 5 as we round up or down) 

The traditions are very similar and the method of operations is similar.  Back in the 80s we used to do Tues & Thurs nights and several weekends a month (continual NTD / TQ1 Drivers Cses).  Here it is one night a week and generally lucky to get a weekend and forget the long weekends we never got back in Canada.  They don't tend to run Cses during the training tear (at least not in my experience.  

Sydney depending on where you are living and where you are parading could be a cut lunch apart.  

I'm Loving it in the Aussie Army.

Downunder


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## Trooper Hale (22 Apr 2009)

Dont think for a moment that the Australian Army is worlds apart from the Canadian or that we're somehow more professional then you. I'd argue, as someone who's seen boths sides (if only for 6 Canadian months) that the opposite is true. Unlike your Reserves, ours dont get the opportunity anymore to go overseas with the Reg's. My thoughts in Canada were that the Canadian Army, due to the amounts of troops you've lost in Afghan, has a mind more set for war fighting and is a Army at war. The Australian Army simply isnt. Until recently the casualties we've had have been, with a couple of exceptions, SF. So dont think you'll be rocking up to a JTFninjasnipercamp full of the War-riest people you've ever met. We're just anothing Army, like yours, but that hasnt experienced the same War that you have.


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## david_wright (21 Jun 2009)

This thread has reared itself at an amost ideal point in my life:
I've been offered a job in Edmonton for 2011. I am currently and ADF MO (Anaesthetist). I am interested in obtaining any contact details for the medical detachment in the area (15 Medical Company). According to the Memorandum of Understanding between Australia and Canada, I can parade with a CF Unit and not jeopardise my ADF service. I need a sympathetic unit in Canada and one here in Australia who is willing to support my application.
I have ben to, and perused, the 15 Med Coy webpage via the DND portal, but I am most interested in anyone can point me towards the contact details (email would be nice) for the Adjudant or clerks. I have the luxury of over 12 months until I start my new job.
Thank you in advance, hoping somone can help.
David


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## macattack (10 May 2010)

Hi guys,

I don't really know where to put this so I will give recruiting a crack!

Just to be clear, I don't want to join, just be attached to.

I am a 23 year old 6 year Australian Reserve Soldier in the Royal Australian Army Medical Corps. This year I am back at uni studying Commerce at the University of Adelaide and next year, most likely semester 2 (later half of the year) I will be studying overseas. It's a little while away but just in case it turns out to be early 2011 I want to cover all the bases as I would have to apply in a couple months.

At one point I only really wanted to study in the US but since then I was reminded of the MoU between our countries. This would definitely change my mind and the UK is out as it's just to damn expensive and ever since they were gifted the Ashes back they have been unbearable. 

Of course I will be going through my CoC but what am I looking out for and what should I do to improve my chances?

Any info at all or past experience would be greatly appreciated.


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## Brasidas (10 May 2010)

macattack said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> 
> I don't really know where to put this so I will give recruiting a crack!
> 
> ...



What city are you going to? There's an Aussie Captain I met on Remembrance Day who's doing this with the Loyal Edmonton Regiment.


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## RubberTree (10 May 2010)

RN or MD? I worked with a trauma doc a couple years ago who was doing the same(ish) thing. Oz to Canada. I may be able to find a name if it would help.


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## Rheostatic (10 May 2010)

No personal experience, but I do remember reading this article:

http://www.cflc.forces.gc.ca/new-sp/bp/2010-04-eng.asp



> *International and Bilateral Support for Reservists*
> 
> How often have we heard of a Reservist having to make a decision to abandon or defer his or her military career in order to accept a transfer, secondment or assignment out of Canada? Or of a student Reservist leaving the unit to attend a foreign university? Now there is a mechanism in place to support these Reservists, who move temporarily to the United States, Australia or the United Kingdom. As a result, a number of Reservists each year will not have to make a choice between a military career and a civilian career.
> 
> ...



I guess it would help to know which unit you want to train with. Health Services Primary Reserve Units

Good luck, and let us know how it works out.


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## Danjanou (10 May 2010)

I had an Aussie medic attached/parading with my company back in the 1990's fro a year. Really can't remember the paperwork involved (and probably changed some too) but i is doable. we even managed to get him qualified ont he C7- C9 etc.and Basic Winter Warfare.  Mind as we were a Kilted Regiment he did look abit odd on parade.  8)


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## macattack (11 May 2010)

Thanks lads, good advice.

I am actually a Medic, not MO or RN. When we say soldier in Australia nine times out of ten we mean an OR.


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## 1feral1 (11 May 2010)

G'Day Cobber!

I am a former ARA turned Choc, based out of a 11 Bde Unit in Enoggera.

Your request to parade in Canada can be done. You'll normally get your ARTDs as you would with your AGR Unit. Pay goes into your Aust bank acct, and accessed thru ATMS in Canada. Best to go thru your ARA Trg WO, with any evidence you can provide to assist you. If he says no, he is being lazy or ignorant. On the other hand he might know more about it himself.

Macca, the provision is there, and I've seen it done. I can give you further info via PM.

The key to everything is time, as it might take up to a year to get it going. Plan now. 

Regards,

OWDU


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## macattack (16 May 2010)

I'll ask next Tuesday, thanks bud. Our new TRG WO seems pretty switched so far, the OPSGT is even better.

I will let you all know the results. Thanks.


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## chrisf (17 May 2010)

Memorial University of Newfoundland (St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada) - Excellent Business School, low tuition rates, extremely friendly locals, reserve field ambulance unit in close proximity.

http://www.mun.ca/


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## Haggis (17 May 2010)

macattack:  PM inbound.  Read it and contact me.

Cheers


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## Haggis (17 May 2010)

Australian Reservists can parade with Canadian Reserve units under the Reserve Forces Foreign Service Agreement (RFFSA), signed between Canada and Australia.   In short, the Reservists must be qualified to the operational functional point (OFP) which, in Canada, is DP1.  Requests are usually made to accommodate Reservists who find themselves in the other nation by virtue of school/work or spousal school or work commitments.  Pay, LDA etc are paid by the sending state.  TD and associated training costs (ammo, rations, quarters) are paid by the host nation.

The reverse, a Canadian "going south", is also possible.  To be eligible, the Reservist must apply through their chain of command.  A host unit should be contacted to ensure that the incoming Reservist has a position while in Canada.  If a host unit cannot be located (or the member doesn't know where to start) Director Reserves can help.

RFFSAs also exist between Canada and the United Kingdom and, recently, the United States.

Anyone needing more info is welcome to contact me via PM.


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## ks1989 (8 Mar 2012)

Hi,

I'm an ADF reserve heading to the UK for a year or two with my partner (she's a briton) later this year and I'm just trying to find out as much as I can about the MOUs and RFFSA before presenting to my chain of command about it. But in all honesty I don't even know where to begin. I've been googling and forum searching for a few hours now. I've found 2 potential units in her home district. Should I contact them directly and inform them I'd like to be able to parade with them later this year under a MOU/RFFSA, looking for a heads up on what they think?

Basically any information / help / ways to get the ball rolling would be appreciated.

Thanks in adv for any info or advice.


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## Haggis (8 Mar 2012)

PM me your e-mail address.  I am the Canadian Forces desk officer for the RFFSA.


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## ezbeatz (10 Oct 2012)

Hey gents, I saw a year or two ago that an agreement was made between the Canadian Army and the British Army that allowed reservists from each other's armed forces to attach post to (or at least train with) a reserve unit in the other's country. I haven't unfortunately been able to find that again so I was wondering if anyone knows what I'm talking about or has any insight into the matter.


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## Bzzliteyr (10 Oct 2012)

CANFORGEN 177/12 VCDS 023/12 281909Z SEP 12
RESERVE CLASS A FOREIGN SERVICE AND TRAINING PROGRAMS
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. MOU BETWEEN DND AND THE UK MOD CONCERNING THE RESERVE FORCES FOREIGN SERVICE ARRANGEMENT (RFFSA) DATED 17 MAY 05 

B. MOU BETWEEN DND AND THE AUSTRALIAN DOD CONCERNING THE RFFSA DATED 20 JUN 07 

C. MOU BETWEEN DND AND THE USA DOD CONCERNING THE RESERVE FOREIGN TRAINING PROGRAM (RFTP) DATED 04 FEB 10 



CHIEF RESERVES AND CADETS (C RES AND CDTS) SIGNED THE REF DOCS FOR CANADA ENABLING MEMBERS OF THE PRIMARY RESERVE (P RES) FROM CANADA, UK, USA OR AUSTRALIA TO PARADE IN THOSE COUNTRIES WHILE MAINTAINING THEIR CLASS A PARADING STATUS AT THEIR HOME UNITS. THESE ARRANGEMENTS ENSURE DUTY OF CARE FOR MEMBERS PARADING IN THE RECEIVING STATE, A CONTINUATION OF SVC WITH THE PARENT UNIT WHILE OUT OF THE COUNTRY, AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMPARE, AND CONTRAST TRG WITH ALLIED NATIONS 


THE AIM OF THIS MSG IS TO PROMULGATE THE PROCESS REQUIRED TO ACCESS THE RFFSA WITH THE UK AND AUSTRALIA AND THE RFTP WITH THE USA TO ENSURE THAT P RES CLASS A MBRS ARE AWARE OF THE OPTION TO PARADE OUTSIDE CANADA WHEN THE NECESSITY ARISES DUE TO CIV CIRCUMSTANCES REQUIRING AN INTERNATIONAL RELOCATION, AND WHEN THE RECEIVING STATE IS ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THE P RES MEMBER AT A LOCAL UNIT 


APPROVAL AND COORD OF THE MOU S IS DONE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL BETWEEN THE SIGNATORY MOD STAFFS. C RES AND CDTS IS THE NATIONAL AUTHORITY FOR CF RESERVISTS AND IS ALSO THE AUTHORITY FOR FOREIGN RESERVISTS WISHING TO BE HOSTED BY A CF P RES UNIT. THE DIRECTOR RESERVES (D RES) IS THE OFFICE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ADMIN OF THE MOU S ON BEHALF OF C RES AND CDTS 


P RES MEMBERS MAY APPLY THROUGH THEIR CHAIN OF COMMAND (C OF C) TO D RES FOR PERMISSION TO PARADE OUTSIDE CANADA. D RES WILL MAKE APPLICATION TO INTERNATIONAL STAFFS ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT AND NOTIFY THE C OF C WHEN PERMISSIONS ARE IN PLACE ENABLING FOLLOW ON DIRLN FOR SENDING AND RECEIVING UNITS 


P RES MBRS RELOCATING TO COUNTRIES OTHER THAN THE UK, USA OR AUSTRALIA MAY APPLY FOR CONSIDERATION TO PARADE ON A CLASS A BASIS USING ONE OF THE EXISTING MOU S AS A TEMPLATE. D RES WILL THEN DETERMINE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS WHETHER IT IS POSSIBLE FOR A PARADING ARRANGEMENT TO BE MADE OR NOT 


APPLICANTS AND THE C OF C ARE REMINDED THAT P RES MBRS ARE NOT PERMITTED TO PARADE IN THE RECEIVING STATE UNTIL ALL AUTHORIZATIONS HAVE BEEN GRANTED BY THE CF AND THE RECEIVING STATE. IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE MOU S PERMIT BUT DO NOT COMPEL SIGNATORY NATIONS TO HOST INDIVIDUAL P RES MEMBERS DURING INTERNATIONAL CIVILIAN RELOCATIONS. LOCAL CIRCUMSTANCES MAY ARISE WHICH MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR A RECEIVING STATE TO GRANT A CF P RES MBR S REQUEST 


THE GUIDES TO USING THE EXISTING RFFSA AND RFTP ARE AVAILABLE FROM THE D RES STAFF UPON REQUEST. THE D RES DESK OFFICER IS CWO J DEVINE, D RES 3-2, CSN 995-6581 E-MAIL: JAMES.DEVINE(AT)FORCES.GC.CA 


SIGNED BY VADM A.B. DONALDSON, VCDS


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## Haggis (10 Oct 2012)

CWO Devine is a member and frequent contributor on here.  Feel free to contact me by e-mail or PM.


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## Snakedoc (10 Oct 2012)

Does anybody know someone who has gone through the process of using the MOU's before?  Was it a fairly lengthy and difficult process or was it pretty straightforward in the end by just going through the CoC etc.?


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## Haggis (10 Oct 2012)

Snakedoc said:
			
		

> Does anybody know someone who has gone through the process of using the MOU's before?  Was it a fairly lengthy and difficult process or was it pretty straightforward in the end by just going through the CoC etc.?



I have extensive experience with all three current MOUs.  I'm CWO Devine.   ;D

In short, the length of the process depends a number of factors, such as:

- how expeditiously your chain of command can get the request to us at NDHQ;
- which country you are going to;
- if you have already identified a potential host unit in the receiving state; and
- the completeness of your submission.

The entire process can be done by e-mail.  If your CO provides a signed letter, for example, your unit can send that as a scanned .pdf, rather than by snail mail.

If you have any more general questions, post them here and I'll respond here for everyone's benefit.


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## Haggis (10 Oct 2012)

If you are a CF Class A Reservist who is living in the United States, United Kingdon or Australia and want to parade/drill with a local Reserve component unit in the country where you are living, please tell your CF parent unit about CANFORGEN 177/12 and have them start the process to legally allow you to perform training.  Not doing so could mean that you (or your dependants) may be denied benefits if you are killed or injured while serving outside of Canada.  Why take the risk?  Let us help you do it right.

If you have general questions about the process or the MOUs, please post them here and I will answer them here.  The MOUs are not presently on the Internet as our website is under review.  When they are reposted I will announce it here.

If you have specific questions about your particular circumstances, or have already initiated the process and need specific information that your chain of command cannot provide, contact me at the e-mail in the CANFORGEN or by PM.   Remember, though, that the approval process MUST follow the chain of command.  I can assist, but will not intervene, in that process.

CWO Jim Devine
Director Reserves 3-2
CF Reserve NCMPD CWO


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## Snakedoc (16 Oct 2012)

As I am currently looking into this... Just a note for naval reserve members looking to do this in Australia, the Australian naval reserve system is quite different from here in Canada.  

They used to have individual units where reserve members parade at weekly and do training on the weekends like our NRDs but they got rid of those a couple years ago and now RAN reservists just fill part-time and full-time positions at RAN reg force establishments.  This is important to note because some of these big bases can be further outside the major cities making them difficult to get to compared to our traditional in-city reserve units.  

The Australian Army however, still uses the reserve unit model so that will make taking advantage of the MOU a bit easier for Canadian Army reservists.


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## Skitzo_222 (19 Oct 2012)

I'm a Spr in the CF, and I am doing a study abroad year in England next year.  I talked to my Capt while on my last course and he said that i could parade out of a British unit for the year.  Since talking to him I have not found much of anything in regard to this topic.  I have heard that it is possible as long as it is a commonwealth country.  Does anyone else know if this is possible? Has anyone heard of someone parading out of unit in another country?


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## The Bread Guy (19 Oct 2012)

If you're a reservist, there's a thread on this here:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/58217.0.html


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## DAA (19 Oct 2012)

CANFORGEN 177/12 "Reserve Class A Foreign Service and Training Programs" provides details.  DND has an MOU with the UK MOD, Austrailian DOD and US DOD, so what your asking is very possible.


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## Haggis (19 Oct 2012)

Skitzo_222:  Check your PMs

DAA, IRT CANFORGEN 177/12, contacting the High Commissions or Embassy will not help.  They will simply refer you to your parent unit.  Go to your parent unit and refer them to CFG 177/12.  The process must be initiated there.  E-mail me on the DWAN if you have any questions.  My e-mail is in CFG 177/12.


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## DAA (19 Oct 2012)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Skitzo_222:  Check your PMs
> 
> DAA, IRT CANFORGEN 177/12, contacting the High Commissions or Embassy will not help.  They will simply refer you to your parent unit.  Go to your parent unit and refer them to CFG 177/12.  The process must be initiated there.  E-mail me on the DWAN if you have any questions.  My e-mail is in CFG 177/12.



 :goodpost:

And thnks for bringing that to our attention!!!!   How would a scenario such as this work???

Reg F member posted OUTCAN and whose spouse is Res F and belongs to a PRL which does not have Class A positions available.  How would the program apply to them?


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## Snakedoc (19 Oct 2012)

My understanding is that the MOU is not a guarantee that they would be able to parade class A but just provides the possibility.  It is best for the mbr to do some of their own research and propose potential host units that can accommodate them.


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## Haggis (19 Oct 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> How would a scenario such as this work???
> 
> Reg F member posted OUTCAN and whose spouse is Res F and belongs to a PRL which does not have Class A positions available.  How would the program apply to them?



An excellent question that we have run across before with the NDHQ PRL.  

The Reservist would have to transfer back to their environment and find a "home port unit/Division" that is willing to take them on their establishment AND fund their Class A parading in the receiving state.


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## brihard (19 Oct 2012)

Haggis said:
			
		

> An excellent question that we have run across before with the NDHQ PRL.
> 
> The Reservist would have to transfer back to their environment and find a "home port unit/Division" that is willing to take them on their establishment AND fund their Class A parading in the receiving state.



That would require a very charitable unit indeed...


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## Haggis (19 Oct 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> That would require a very charitable unit indeed...



I've been working on these files for almost four years and have yet to find a CO who is that charitable.


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## DAA (19 Oct 2012)

Haggis said:
			
		

> I've been working on these files for almost four years and have yet to find a CO who is that charitable.



We have had a few "really good" people who worked for us on full-time Class B (eg: PRL Managed), whose Reg F spouse was posted OUTCAN and they naturally followed, but they transferred over to the Supp Res prior to leaving.

And the shame of it all.......If they should ever come back to our area, which may very well happen, and a Class B position opens up, which it does from time to time, and they apply we can't even look at rehiring them if a currently active PRes member applies.  Supp Res pers are at the back of the line....

Surprised that Ottawa doesn't consider limited funding for keeping these people "active" and involved.


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## brihard (19 Oct 2012)

I was in touch with Haggis on this one, but I'm starting the process right now on a neat one. I've got a former active duty US Marine Corps infantryman who's now on their 'individual ready reserve'. Think of it as five years compulsory supp res where once a year you're paid to fly in and do a muster parade for the sake of annual readiness. He's up here now going to school - he's a dual citizen - and is very interested in attaching to my unit to parade and train with us. Trouble is because he's IRR, there isn't a field unit that 'owns' him; he's just on a big list somewhere. So I anticipate significant difficulty in trying to get buy in from their side. The trouble is, on the Canadian side I'd have a pretty good idea of who to at least go to. With the Americans their entire system is literally very foreign to me and I don't know the ins and outs that normally help me muddle my way through bureaucracy...

This'll be fun.


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## Haggis (19 Oct 2012)

DAA said:
			
		

> Surprised that Ottawa doesn't consider limited funding for keeping these people "active" and involved.



A conundrum we'd face in that case is ensuring that "Ottawa" provides these folks with enough Class A days to make a worthwhile contribution to the receiving state.  We've had some requests come through authorizing just enough days to keep a member off the NES list while serving OUTCAN. Receiving state units aren't interested in this so it's hardly worth the staff effort at times.

I'd love to be able to support this.  But what little money I have in my training budget goes towards funding opportunities which will produce a return on investment on the Armoury Floor/deck plates/flight line of P Res units and aid in readiness and succession planning.


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## rog101 (24 Nov 2013)

Hello, I am a Ccanadian combat engineer reservist, my wife has an awsome job offer in St. Louis, am I able to get attached to the American military ?


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## Shamrock (24 Nov 2013)

It is possible for a Class A reservist to parade in the US, yes.

Don't ask me the particulars, but I know it can be requested.


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## mariomike (24 Nov 2013)

rog101 said:
			
		

> Hello, I am a Ccanadian combat engineer reservist, my wife has an awsome job offer in St. Louis, am I able to get attached to the American military ?



RESERVE FORCES FOREIGN SERVICE ARRANGEMENT 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-support-services-for-members-reservists/foreign-service-agreements.page

CAN Reservists serving overseas (merged thread) 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/58217/post-1179622#msg1179622
See Reply #39, 40 ... and those following for discussion of RFFSA.


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## Transporter (25 Nov 2013)

I don't know if it's possible, but I do know that the U.S. Army Engineer School is only two hrs away from St. Louis at Fort Leonard Wood, MO but maybe you already knew that. I believe the CA has one or two officers there (Capt/Maj) either on exchange or as LNOs.


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## tomahawk6 (25 Nov 2013)

The Missouri National Guard's 35th Engineer Brigade is at Ft Leonard Wood.

http://www.moguard.com/thirty-fifth-engineer-brigade.html


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## Matty (6 Jun 2017)

I'm a Jr Officer in the CAR Armoured Reserve and wondering if it's possible to do an exchange with the Brits while I'm there studying or working for a couple years? Does anyone have any experience or references on something like this?

Thank-you in advance!




_edit for clarity_


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## Loachman (6 Jun 2017)

There is a thread somewhere on this Site that discusses this.


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## mariomike (6 Jun 2017)

See also,

Reserve Force Foreign Service Arrangements ( RFFSA )
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-support-services-for-members-reservists/foreign-service-agreements.page
The Reserve Force Foreign Service Arrangements (RFFSA) are a series of Memorandums of Understanding (MOU) between Canada and other countries with similar Reserve Force structures.


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