# CFAT Issue, Planning on joining Reserves



## Macrinus88 (7 May 2012)

I recently purchased this studying guide for the CFAT.

http://www.publicserviceprep.com

What mark do you need on each section (Verbal, Spacial Ability, Problem Solving) to qualify for an Infantry job? That is probably what I wanna do. I hope to join the Queens Own Rifles reserves. I wrote the CFAT before but did not join, I only qualified for Cook and the second test I qualified for nothing. But I had serious sleeping problems back then and I wasn't in a good mental state writing it.


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## MikeL (7 May 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> I recently purchased this studying guide for the CFAT.
> 
> http://www.publicserviceprep.com
> 
> What mark do you need on each section (Verbal, Spacial Ability, Problem Solving) to qualify for an Infantry job? That is probably what I wanna do. I hope to join the Queens Own Rifles reserves. I wrote the CFAT before but did not join, I only qualified for Cook and the second test I qualified for nothing. But I had serious sleeping problems back then and I wasn't in a good mental state writing it.



Dude,  search a bit on this subject.. massive CFAT thread here.  Also,  you will not find or be told what the scoring system/scores are for the trades, etc.    Also,  you've had 2 tests already,  has the CFRC confirmed that you can do a third one?    Did the CFRC inform you regarding what you need to work on? ie did you do poor in math, english, etc?

Just looked at your other posts,  are you sure on what you want to do ?   You talked quite a bit about becoming a MP and maybe a civvie Police Officer later,  then you wanted to join a Scottish Regiment,  now you are wanting the Queen's Own?


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## agc (7 May 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> I recently purchased this studying guide for the CFAT.
> 
> http://www.publicserviceprep.com
> 
> What mark do you need on each section (Verbal, Spacial Ability, Problem Solving) to qualify for an Infantry job? That is probably what I wanna do. I hope to join the Queens Own Rifles reserves. I wrote the CFAT before but did not join, I only qualified for Cook and the second test I qualified for nothing. But I had serious sleeping problems back then and I wasn't in a good mental state writing it.



Were you not warned that you should be in your best shape to write the test?


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## Macrinus88 (7 May 2012)

It was years ago when I was in high school and it was a Co-op job, I declined it. Im currently taking a break from University and hope to graduate from that in 2014. Im not going to join full time to become an MP. Im sure that I wanna join the Infantry or Combat Engineer, on the main site it does say they are accepting applications from that but there is no check mark on Infantry. I would prefer to join the Queens Own Rifles.

I would assume you need at least 75-80% on each section to qualify for Infantry. I was going to email a recruiter, is the designation @canadianforces.ca or forces.gc.ca? For the military email.


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## agc (7 May 2012)

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Dude,  search a bit on this subject.. massive CFAT thread here.  Also,  you will not find or be told what the scoring system/scores are for the trades, etc.


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## MikeL (7 May 2012)

Why do you assume you need 75-80% in all sections?  Just some random number you made up or?   Again,  there is a large CFAT thread,  look for that,  and do some reading.  Hint,  it's in the large brown highlighted topics in the Recruiting forum.

@forces.gc.ca  is the email

Also,  just because you know the recruiters name doesn't mean you can just add @forces to the name and email him,  if theres multiple people with the same name they will have numbers, etc.  ie  JOHN.BLOGGINS2@forces.gc.ca

Did the recruiter give you his email or you just going to blindly email more or less and hope for the best?


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## Trick (8 May 2012)

Since you're in university now I think they'll let you do a 3rd, but you should check with a recruiter to make sure. I assume you're in Toronto- the RC is easy to get to, right off the subway line at Sheppard. As with most questions, the best bet is to go down there and talk to them (or call). As for the score, it doesn't matter really. I assume you want to do your best? Whether you need to get 5% on each section or 95% it really doesn't matter then does it. Either way, you want to do as well as possible. 

As you're applying for the Reserves, you should contact the individual units and make sure they're recruiting at all. There are many in/around Toronto, including an Engineer unit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32_Canadian_Brigade_Group


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## Macrinus88 (8 May 2012)

Im in Mississauga, I will probably go to the recruiting center near Square One. I never did the Physical and Im in a better mental state now since I don't have those sleeping problems anymore, I was told they keep my name on record when I wrote it in 2008.


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## treeoflife (9 May 2012)

If you've written the CFAT twice already you're not likely to get a third try unless you've done "significant academic upgrading."  The fact that you're now in university may not be enough, unless you've done some university-level math courses.  The recruiting centre will be able to advise you accordingly as to what math courses you should take to be eligible to rewrite again.


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## Journeyman (9 May 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> Since you're in university now I think they'll let you do a 3rd....





			
				treeoflife said:
			
		

> If you've written the CFAT twice already you're not likely to get a third try  .....



     op:

I come to the recruiting threads whenever I get tired of _informed_ opinions.


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## The_Falcon (9 May 2012)

The Mississuaga Det is closing down, and IIRC correctly is closed to the general public as they prepare to close and transfer files.  What the cut off scores/percentiles are for you as an applicant are irrelevant because you will never be told what you scored.  Being granted a 2nd waiver for a rewrite is rare, you will need to show that you have done significant upgrading (policy is 2.  The applicant must be registered in a substantial program of studies at the post- secondary level and encountering no apparent difficulty.) to the MCC, who may or may not reccomend, who then forwards to the UPSO.  IF (and its a big if) they reccomend, then the waiver gets forwarded to CFRG HQ for approval.

If you can't tell this isn't something that happens quickly.


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## treeoflife (10 May 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> op:
> 
> I come to the recruiting threads whenever I get tired of _informed_ opinions.



Funny - I like to come to the recruiting forums to repeatedly watch longtime army.ca members belittle people without any knowledge of their background.   :

For the record, my "opinion" is an informed one.  Like Hatchet Man wrote, a second level rewrite waiver will have to be well-substantiated and go through several levels for approval.


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## Journeyman (10 May 2012)

There, there muffin. 

Since I cited contradictory posts, I was _obviously_ belittling Trick, rather than questioning your extensive CF and recruiting expertise.


Edit:
_Actually_.... the point of the post was to highlight peoples' apparent need to post when they clearly don't have a clue what they're talking about -- hence the contradictory posts -- rather than let people, in this case Hatchet Man, who KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, provide valid responses.


I would like to thank you, however, for reaffirming why I seldom bother with Recruiting threads....the place where self-righteous entitlement and stupidity meet up to run rampant.    :


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## Trick (10 May 2012)

Sometimes people who are familiar with the recruiting process aren't around to answer questions. When someone starts a sentence with "I think..." it's pretty obvious that they're acknowledging that they're not an expert (so take it with a grain of salt) up front. Sometimes the best answer people have to go with starts with "I think", even from recruiting staff from time to time. The only person I've seen post regularly here who works in recruiting is Hatchet. Personally, I'm grateful that we have someone around here can give good, reliable answers, but unless you expect one person to answer every question in every thread, you're going to have to deal with "I think" from time to time.

That said, I guess it would be best to at least wait to see if an "expert" will post on a topic before people like us jump in.


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## Macrinus88 (28 May 2012)

What, the mississauga scottish regiment is closing down?

Im gonna go write it on Friday, have the week to study, it closes at 4pm.


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## Macrinus88 (28 May 2012)

Well that doesn't mean the unit is closing down right? With all these budget cuts, I don't think I could even join and my application would be put on hold. 

edit to remove link

Macrinus88, see here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/99046.0.html

Don't let it happen again.

Milnet.ca Staff


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## dangles (28 May 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> It was years ago when I was in high school and it was a Co-op job, I declined it. Im currently taking a break from University and hope to graduate from that in 2014. Im not going to join full time to become an MP. Im sure that I wanna join the Infantry or Combat Engineer, on the main site it does say they are accepting applications from that but there is no check mark on Infantry. I would prefer to join the Queens Own Rifles.
> 
> I would assume you need at least 75-80% on each section to qualify for Infantry. I was going to email a recruiter, is the designation @canadianforces.ca or forces.gc.ca? For the military email.



I joined the infantry and I did absolutely terrible on the spatial reasoning portion of the test - but I am pretty sure my other sections made up for it. I was not used to the spatial reasoning and did not prepare much for that part, so I found it a lot harder than perhaps it needed to be - regardless you are measured in a percentile of where you fall in regards to other people who wrote the test. Don't get too hung up on percentages, just try to study hard and hope for the best.


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## Macrinus88 (30 May 2012)

Does anyone know if the Mississauga recruiting center is still open? It said it would be closed down sometime.


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## Tristan (30 May 2012)

From forces.ca

Regular Force Recruiting Centres (full-time) CFRD MISSISSAUGA

Mississauga, Ontario

Phone: 
Fax: 
Business Hours: 
CFR Detachment Mississauga will close permanently on 15 May 2012.


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## Macrinus88 (11 Jun 2012)

This is just the recruiting center closing right?


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## aesop081 (11 Jun 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> This is just the recruiting center closing right?



No, the entire CF is closing up shop. Notices went out this morning. Sorry.


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## brihard (11 Jun 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> This is just the recruiting center closing right?



*sigh*

The Mississauga recruiting centre detachment is shutting down. None off the local reserve regiments are. I can assure you neither the Queen's Own Rifles nor the 48th Highlanders are slated for closing unless someone has in the past few hours pulled of something truly spectacular and atrocious that I've not yet heard about.

To fail to qualify for infantry on the CFAT is, to say the least, a bit of a feat. You should be able to think back and know what parts of the test you had difficulty with. As much as I love my trade, we aren't Mensa. If you pooched it to that extent you should know already what your weaknesses are.

The only answer you will get on the CFAT rewrite that you can take to the bank will be from a recruiting centre that you attend in person. There are many informed opinions on the site, but it will not be the members here processing your application. Attend the recruiting centre, bring in your transcripts thus far, show the aademic upgrading you've done, and see if they'll offer you another kick at the cat.

If they do, be rested, fit and ready so you don't waste our time.


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## Macrinus88 (11 Jun 2012)

I don't need to be ridiculed because I failed to qualify for Infantry, I had Insomnia problems back then.

Any CF recruiting center allows you to join any unit/branch of the military right? Depending on if they have opening in those units of course. 

4900 Yonge  Toronto, ON M2N 6A4, I will just go to that recruiting center.


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## The Bread Guy (11 Jun 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> I don't need to be ridiculed because I failed to qualify for Infantry, I had Insomnia problems back then.


If you consider _this_ ridicule, I suggest you build up a bit of callus before trying to become an infanteer.


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## brihard (11 Jun 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> I don't need to be ridiculed because I failed to qualify for Infantry, I had Insomnia problems back then.
> 
> Any CF recruiting center allows you to join any unit/branch of the military right? Depending on if they have opening in those units of course.
> 
> 4900 Yonge  Toronto, ON M2N 6A4, I will just go to that recruiting center.



I'm not ridiculing you. You would know if I was. I'm saying that to fail to qualify for infantry takes sufficiently poor performance on the CFAT that you should have some idea of where you went awry. If *that* offends you, best reconsider joining, because you will hear far worse, and you will be expected to be accountable for your own failings in this profession. We take the approach that you own it and learn from it rather than get pissy. That is the approach that I as an infantry NCO take to such things and you can expect to run into it time and again.

Yes, all CFRCs can process any trade. However to join a reserve unit - I was a recruiter or a reserve infnatry unit up until late March and can speak on this - *they* must initially accept you as an applicant and say they are willing to offer you a spot before your file ever gets opened by CFRC. So your first step is the unit you're looking to join.


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## The_Falcon (12 Jun 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Yes, all CFRCs can process any trade. However to join a reserve unit - I was a recruiter or a reserve infnatry unit up until late March and can speak on this - *they* must initially accept you as an applicant and say they are willing to offer you a spot before your file ever gets opened by CFRC. So your first step is the unit you're looking to join.



Well considering he didn't even read the part I mentioned last month about requiring a 2nd rewrite waiver, and how difficult it is to get that, I am not holding my breath on a reserve unit even considering him, and since most are stood down with everyone gone on tasking/course.....

Macinus this whats going to happen if you show up at 4900 Yonge at this point in time...

You show up no letter in hand, they will say you need one first.  They may even look you up in CFRIMS since you have already written the CFAT twice.  They will see you have written it twice and not qualified infantry.  They will tell you whatever it says in the log from the last MCC who counseled you, probably to go take some courses and get pretty high marks.  They will ask, have you done this, if you say no, they will say thanks have a nice day, come back when you have done so.  

You seem to be under this impression we owe you something.  We don't.  While every Canadian Citizen has the right to apply to the CF, not everyone has the stuff to make it through.  We aren't Tim Horton's or McDonalds.  You have had two opportunities and didn't pass.  You now claim you had some sort of issue that affected your test, however you only now bring this up, when you should have brought it up when you wrote the test(s).  In fact you are given that opportunity, before you even write the test, to say "Hey I am not feeling so good today, can I write on another day?"  Its part of the verbatim, the invigilator says before prospects write the CFAT.  "If anyone has any issue they feel may effect their performance, let me know now, and your test will be rescheduled without penalty".  

But by all means feel free to waste the time of the Recruiter's, MCC's and file managers.


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## Macrinus88 (12 Jun 2012)

Sorry, I just took offense to the "Failing infantry is quiet a feat in itself part". 

What letter in hand? You mean my university acceptance? Im studying a CFAT prep this time so Im confident I will do well on the test. I did have Insomnia problems back then, it is why I only qualified for cook and then qualified for nothing, I was always fatigued and drowsy. Didn't wanna say anything about it but I don't have those problems anymore so Im fine to write it now.


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## aesop081 (12 Jun 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> What letter in hand? You mean my university acceptance?



No. The one from the reserve unti you wish to join. The CFRC will not process you unless you have one.


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## The_Falcon (12 Jun 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> Sorry, I just took offense to the "Failing infantry is quiet a feat in itself part".
> 
> What letter in hand? You mean my university acceptance? Im studying a CFAT prep this time so Im confident I will do well on the test. I did have Insomnia problems back then, it is why I only qualified for cook and then qualified for nothing, I was always fatigued and drowsy. Didn't wanna say anything about it but I don't have those problems anymore so Im fine to write it now.



GO BACK AND READ WHAT I WROTE.  You need a second re-write waiver, studying a book you bought at Chapters won't cut it.  I am not going to explain what you need to do because I have done so twice already.


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## brihard (12 Jun 2012)

Macrinus88 said:
			
		

> Sorry, I just took offense to the "Failing infantry is quiet a feat in itself part".
> 
> What letter in hand? You mean my university acceptance? Im studying a CFAT prep this time so Im confident I will do well on the test. I did have Insomnia problems back then, it is why I only qualified for cook and then qualified for nothing, I was always fatigued and drowsy. Didn't wanna say anything about it but I don't have those problems anymore so Im fine to write it now.



Your taking of offense is noted. But many civilians aren't used to facing blunt truth on things, and that's something we deal with a lot in this job.

Every piece of information you need on this has already been posted here and elsewhere. Do some research, re-read this thread and others, and understand the process necessary to argue why you deserve a a third try. You need to understand that, and you need to be able to articulate it to the reserve recruiter if you're going to have any luck convincing him in the first instance that you're deserving of his risking a recruitment spot on if he's to send you down to CFRC with a regimental letter stating their willingness to have you processed. That is what I would have expected had I faced a similar candidate when I was recruiting.


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## aesop081 (12 Jun 2012)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> because I have done so twice already.



C'mon, it's just like the secret to passing the CFAT:

Third time's a charm !


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## Loachman (12 Jun 2012)

I am putting together a new CFAT.

It will consist of only two parts, yet will still provide a valid (and possibly superior) indicator of future performance.

Part I: Applicant is given a bag of assorted items for disposal and directed to a room with containers marked "Cans", "Plastic", "Paper", and "Trash". This is not as simple as it appears - it baffles many members of higher HQs.

Part II: Applicant is provided with a copy of this thread and a piece of paper upon which to write out the correct sequence of activities required in order to apply.


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