# Worldwide Submarine Threat



## Gobsmacked (7 Sep 2016)

I'm sure the Politicians Hot Air will continue to protect our Arctic waters with a 'heat shield'.  :gloomy:
While prepared with a Canadian Focus, this 8 page 'cover focus' article clearly shows that the western nations need to take heed of the requirement for a renewed focus on ASW assets. 
Especially both SSN / SSK Submarines and Maritime Helicopters.
Something The UK should also take note of with an Inadequate 7 Austute SSN and just 30 overworked / Overtasked HM2 Merlins for both ASW & AEW - when each of the 2 QE-class CVs requires Minimum 13 (9 ASW / 4 AEW) each, plus 5 in Maint & some for Trng (both ASW/AEW) & SSBN Protection & 6 req'd for small Type 23/26 Frigate ships flights.  Can anybody say QE carrier sinking on the horizon?
 :endnigh: 

http://defence.frontline.online/article/2016/4/5207-Submarine-Proliferation-and-Impact-for-Canada 

http://defence.frontline.online/interactive/16def4-3d/html5/index.html?page=1


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## a_majoor (27 Oct 2016)

This is an interesting idea to counterpoint the opening article: a robot ship with a parasail mounted sensor pack. The use of a parasail on any ship to raise sensors and communication antenna will certainly increase the range and ability of the ship to sense and control an area. Video on link

http://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2016-10-24



> *ACTUV Unmanned Vessel Helps TALONS Take Flight in Successful Joint Test*
> Prototype low-cost, elevated sensor mast carrying ISR payload greatly extends radar, sensor, and radio ranges at modest altitude
> 
> OUTREACH@DARPA.MIL
> ...


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## GR66 (28 Oct 2016)

How much would an unmanned vessel with this technology cost?  Would it be cheaper to simply outfit a commercial trawler-type vessel with one of these and a towed array sonar to patrol our coasts?


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## Colin Parkinson (28 Oct 2016)

It would be a cheap solution, but that vessel could not catch a sub or likely protect itself. You might be able to arm them with a Mk 43 type single torpedo launcher.


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## a_majoor (28 Oct 2016)

GR66 said:
			
		

> How much would an unmanned vessel with this technology cost?  Would it be cheaper to simply outfit a commercial trawler-type vessel with one of these and a towed array sonar to patrol our coasts?



Flower class corvettes were based on commercial "Boston Whalers" so the idea has a pedigree. The main cost these days is the highly skilled crews needed to man the ships. The purpose of the robotic ships (as I understand it) si to provide a screen around higher valued manned ships without the expense of extra crews, or putting crews in danger. The enemy submarine will be forced to contend with a minimum of two ships (the control ship and its robotic escort), and more likely a convoy would have one or two frigates and five or more robot "corvettes" sailing with them.

As a bonus, the robot ship needs no space for berthing, messes or wardrooms or any other accommodations, so can be far smaller even with the same weapons and sensor load outs. This would theoretically make the ship less expensive to build, and provide a much smaller signature for enemy ships, aircraft or submarines to detect.


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## Colin Parkinson (28 Oct 2016)

Fishing vessels can be quite big, but if damaged, you likely lose the ship and crew. They could easily handle all sorts of detection gear with little modification. Gray paint, 35mm gun, 2 MG's and some sort of torpedo pods and a chaff/noise maker for defense and your good to go. this would be your offshore one






Inshore
A few of these on each coast, they could do fisheries research while patrolling for subs.


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## a_majoor (28 Oct 2016)

For the ultimate in long term robotic patrolling, the Waveglider charges its batteries using a solar panel and uses no engines at all, just the motion of the waves. Dump a thousand of them in a long line and they form the sensor screen along the entire coastal region:

https://www.liquid-robotics.com/platform/how-it-works/

Open Sensor and Payload Integration Architecture
A flexible design makes it easy to reconfigure or adjust onboard payloads on the fly. The optimized motion and sound isolation systems and persistence make the Wave Glider well suited for towed acoustic sensors.

Plug and play payloads
Multiple sensor placement options
Payload health check sensors
Massive towing capability

Wave Glider Specifications
Water Speed: 1kt to 3kts
Endurance: Up to 1 year
Operating Water Depth: > 15m
Station Keeping: 40m radius (CEP90)
Payload: 7 modular bays
Tow Capability: Up to 500kg mass
Average Continuous Power: 5W – 20W
Max Solar Collection: 156W
Battery Storage: 0.9kWh – 4.5kWh
Communications: Satellite, Cell, Wi-Fi


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## Czech_pivo (10 May 2018)

France has ordered another Barracuda Attach sub

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/05/07/france-orders-another-cruise-missile-capable-sub/


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## Czech_pivo (18 Apr 2019)

Interesting article about German-Canadian development of an anti-torpedo torpedo.  If its successful in its development, it would be great to see it onboard the new CSC's, possibly even on the AOPS?

 https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27510/german-and-canadian-firms-developing-seaspider-rocket-powered-anti-torpedo-torpedo

German and Canadian defense contractors are moving ahead with the development of a rocket-powered hard-kill anti-torpedo defense system called SeaSpider that they hope could become a standard feature on naval vessels in both of those countries. The project is another example of growing interest around the world in anti-torpedo torpedoes to defeat increasingly advanced threats. The War Zone has been closely following the U.S. Navy's own effort, which you can read about in depth in a recent feature.


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