# CF Ordering 25K "Hybrid (Combat) Shirts"



## The Bread Guy (16 Oct 2009)

This in today's culling of MERX:


> .... The Department of National Defence (DND) has a requirement for Hybrid Shirt with a knit material body and FR fabric arms in Canadian Disruptive Pattern Arid Regions (CADPAT AR). The hybrid shirts have to be manufactured in accordance with the Department of National Defence the Department of National Defence documents, Manufacturing Data for shirt, hot weather, hybrid DSSPM 2-6-87-8823, dated 19 August, 2009, Purchase description for cloth, twill, aramid/FR viscose, 170 g/m², dated 10 August 2009, Specification for CADPAT ™(AR), dated 27 June 2003, Specification for cloth, knit, jersey, 60/40 cotton/nylon, dated 8 September 2009, Manufacturing data for tape, fastener, nylon hook and loop, dated March 2001, patterns, drawings, and sealed patterns.
> 
> Firm Quantity:  This requirement is for a firm quantity of 25,270 shirts in CADPAT(AR) to be delivered to Montreal, Qc and Edmonton, Alta.
> 
> Delivery requested: The delivery must be completed by 31 march 2010....



Based on the design from the bid document (attached) it appears they'll be along the lines of this sort of shirt already in the U.S. system:


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## ModlrMike (16 Oct 2009)

We were told back in 08 that they were ordered and to expect delivery for early 09. I guess not.


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## COBRA-6 (16 Oct 2009)

The design in the MERX doc looks very similar to the Crye Combat Shirt, less the integrated elbow pads:






http://www.cryeprecision.com/Item_Detail.aspx?ItemCode=APRCS402LGR&title=Combat+Shirt+Ac


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## X-mo-1979 (16 Oct 2009)

Does it really make sense to even buy for the matter of a year before we put tail between legs and leave?We survived this long without it.In 08 our RSM banned them after guys paid a hefty price for them.

Nice shirt if your a fit looking guy/gal.Should look hilarious on our army.


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## vonGarvin (16 Oct 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> *Does it really make sense to even buy for the matter of a year before we put tail between legs and leave*?We survived this long without it.In 08 our RSM banned them after guys paid a hefty price for them.
> 
> Nice shirt if your a fit looking guy/gal.Should look hilarious on our army.


Tell us what you really meant to say...


Short answer: yes.  Are we supposed to burn all our Arid pattern CADPAT when we leave?  Methinks not.  And it's not up to RSMs to ban issued kit, which this will be.  And it's not about looks.


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## 40below (16 Oct 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Nice shirt if your a fit looking guy/gal.Should look hilarious on our army.



Because I REALLY needed to spit coffee all over my keyboard this early in the morning.


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## X-mo-1979 (16 Oct 2009)

Yeah apologize for that actually.I understand that this project was probably started 3-4 years ago before the 2011 outcome was decided.And no doubt it's a great product.Should feel nice in under armour without that combat shirt rubbing.

As for the tail between our leg's I'm referring to Government policy not our army.Needless to say I'm a little ticked about pulling out in 2011.As to bringing it home with us,let's pray for another desert war/conflict/peacekeeping/babysitting tour.

As for the RSM he can make us wear it under a combat shirt as it may be labeled a next to skin article...thus the confusion begins and takes a good two tours to figure out how it can be worn.I.E remember the fleece issue?It has a spot to put rank it must be a outer garment....now its a under garment..now it ...you get it.


I will not retract my comment about it looking atrocious on many CF members.Thats a hard fact.



			
				40below said:
			
		

> Because I REALLY needed to spit coffee all over my keyboard this early in the morning.



Some people get me some dont! ;D I wasnt the "keepin it real NCO" for nothing. ;D
Cheers man


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## vonGarvin (16 Oct 2009)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I will not retract my comment about it looking atrocious on many CF members.thats a hard fact.


Nor should you retract it ;D


(If anything needs retraction, its the collective waistlines of many-a CF member) ;D


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## OldSolduer (16 Oct 2009)

Its about time, and some RSMs need a good grounding in modern technology and new fabrics that are fire resistant AND keep the troops comfortable under body armor. 
I foresee that only "outside the wire" troops or those that go outside the wire will be issued this. 
25 thousand shirts ain't a lot, so it sounds like we're sharing....again.

As for the look on some of the troops, yes you are right, but don't judge books by their covers either.


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## Snaketnk (16 Oct 2009)

Our CSMs have been telling us we're getting this issued to us for our upcoming tour for months now.

Also, the entire CF isn't leaving Afghanistan in 2011, it sounds like we'll maintain a PRT, no reason to hose those boys in regards to kit just because "you" won't be there, eh?


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## TCBF (16 Oct 2009)

- You would think that after the Arid CADPAT "Dry Fire" shirts had been an optional under-vest wear for three months now, that someone would at least have a picture of it.

 ;D

- Arid CADPAT arms, T-Shirt type body.  $110 USD at the Canadian PX.  They must have sold hundreds, a fav among veh crews. 

- NOT for FOB/MOB wear - under vest only.


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## The Bread Guy (16 Oct 2009)

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> (If anything needs retraction, its the collective waistlines of many-a CF member) ;D


I guess I forgot the "not exactly as shown" disclaimer?   

<hijack & redirect>


			
				Snaketnk said:
			
		

> Also, *the entire CF isn't leaving Afghanistan in 2011, it sounds like we'll maintain a PRT*, no reason to hose those boys in regards to kit just because "you" won't be there, eh?


If you've seen anything firm you can share, feel free to throw it into this thread
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/89723.0.html
because it's not that clear based on public statements from Ottawa.
</hijack & redirect>


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## X-mo-1979 (16 Oct 2009)

Midnight Rambler said:
			
		

> Nor should you retract it ;D
> 
> 
> (If anything needs retraction, its the collective waistlines of many-a CF member) ;D


Here-here



			
				OldSoldier said:
			
		

> Its about time, and some RSMs need a good grounding in modern technology and new fabrics that are fire resistant AND keep the troops comfortable under body armor.
> I foresee that only "outside the wire" troops or those that go outside the wire will be issued this.
> 25 thousand shirts ain't a lot, so it sounds like we're sharing....again.
> 
> As for the look on some of the troops, yes you are right, but don't judge books by their covers either.


Your right 25 sure isnt a lot. I don't see the exclusion of KAF members when it comes down to "comfort gear" either.Now if they do I'll have to try and pack a extra cadpat shirt in the veh somewhere.The one time we made it back to KAF half my crew forgot their floppy,as it was sitting in our MOB box at the FOB.



			
				TCBF said:
			
		

> - You would think that after the Arid CADPAT "Dry Fire" shirts had been an optional under-vest wear for three months now, that someone would at least have a picture of it.


proof!


			
				Snaketnk said:
			
		

> Our CSMs have been telling us we're getting this issued to us for our upcoming tour for months now.
> 
> Also, the entire CF isn't leaving Afghanistan in 2011, it sounds like we'll maintain a PRT, no reason to hose those boys in regards to kit just because "you" won't be there, eh?


Who says we are keeping PRT?And who says I wont be?

Overall though I think we were the only country who were not wearing it in our AOR.The Dutch,'Mericans,British all had em IIRC.
Anywho I gotta go for a bit of a run...that shirt is better than a BMI anyday! ;D


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## Loachman (16 Oct 2009)

Odd that the arms are to be fire retardant, but not the body, which is to be cotton/nylon rather than a Drifire type all-synthetic FR fabric.


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## ICE Tactical (16 Oct 2009)

The design was done by a Vancouver based company (not us), based on the British shirt with FR woven sleeves and FR knit torso. Much like the Crye shirt made for the USMC by Propper. It seemed to have pretty bulky sleeve pockets and elbows.

Hobey


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## MikeL (16 Oct 2009)

ICE Tactical said:
			
		

> The design was done by a Vancouver based company (not us), based on the British shirt with FR woven sleeves and FR knit torso. Much like the Crye shirt made for the USMC by Propper. It seemed to have pretty bulky sleeve pockets and elbows.
> 
> Hobey



So it's pretty much going to look like the CP Gear Outside The Wire shirt?

Or did it not have the collar an zipper an is like the US Army FR shirt posted above.



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> Odd that the arms are to be fire retardant, but not the body, which is to be cotton/nylon rather than a Drifire type all-synthetic FR fabric.



Hopefully someone in CTS(or whoever runs the project) picks up on that


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## ICE Tactical (16 Oct 2009)

The samples I've seen have a neck zipper with inside flap, and Velcro sleeve pockets. The collar is lined with FR knit. The torso is an FR/no melt/no drip knit from Malden Mills. (Cotton/nylon blends with FR treatment are common). The sleeves use Kermel FR fiber. The whole shirt is FR. 
The US Army shirt is all knit FR fabrics (cotton, rayon, and polyester) , and pretty fragile. 

Hobey


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## Loachman (17 Oct 2009)

Okay, good, the whole thing will be FR.

One next wonders about making the current combat trousers FR as well.


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## X-mo-1979 (18 Oct 2009)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Okay, good, the whole thing will be FR.
> 
> One next wonders about making the current combat trousers FR as well.



hehehehehe.


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## 421 EME (29 Mar 2010)

So whats the word on these shirts, are they being issued, does anyone have a photo of one, do they really exist???? Its been 5 months and no new posts on this topic, so lets bring it back to life. Someone must have some news on this.


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## TN2IC (30 Mar 2010)

It would nice to know before some folks head over to the sandbox soon.  ;D

So any new news?


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## The Bread Guy (30 Mar 2010)

We know who got the contract, and for how much (highlights mine - PDF attached if link doesn't work):


> Award Type  	Award Notice
> GSIN 	N8405
> GSIN Description 	OUTERWEAR, MEN'S
> Amount 	*$2,189,013.75 CAD*
> ...



Original bid documents said delivery by 31 Mar 10 - 37.5 hours to go as of this post (according to my watch)    

Anyone closer to the distribution chain care to speculate on how long it might take between (assuming on-time) delivery of products to CF and delivery to troops?


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## Ecco (31 Mar 2010)

They are surprisingly cheap, much cheaper than expected.

I know enough about equipment procurement never to assume a soldier-level delivery date, nor try to guess one.  The reality is that there is too many actors and factors involved to guess correctly.  All the efforts are being made to deliver them to our troops ASAP.


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## Bzzliteyr (31 Mar 2010)

Ecco, by "cheap" you mean "inexpensive", right?

J'espere...


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## Ecco (31 Mar 2010)

Inexpensive  indeed.  The expected price was almost 100% higher.  
Quality-wise, they were user-accepted at over 80%, and the first 300 hybrid shirts were very well received by troops in theater, circa November 2009.


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## DirtyDog (31 Mar 2010)

Well I definitely wasn't haolding my breath for these shirts so I went out and bought a couple of CP gear shirts.  IF and WHEN we do get an issue one I don't expect to get more then one... but we'll see.


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## NL_engineer (31 Mar 2010)

I suspect they are going to look like/are what I seen a lot of guys wearing while I was there: basically the sleeves of our combat shirt, sewn on an issued brown t-shirt.  I think I am going to stick with my 2 OTW's if I go over again.


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## Bzzliteyr (1 Apr 2010)

I also see the chain of command authorizing the use of ONLY the issued shirts and not the local purchase/OTW shirts. That would be like with all of our "safety" kit and for our protection.


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## DirtyDog (1 Apr 2010)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> I suspect they are going to look like/are what I seen a lot of guys wearing while I was there: basically the sleeves of our combat shirt, sewn on an issued brown t-shirt.  I think I am going to stick with my 2 OTW's if I go over again.


If they are anything like the trial version that was tested a few years back in the California I'd take them over a OTW shirt.  They seemed more comfortable, had nice pockets and seemed sturdier.  Best of all is the price.....


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## NL_engineer (4 Apr 2010)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> If they are anything like the trial version that was tested a few years back in the California I'd take them over a OTW shirt.  They seemed more comfortable, had nice pockets and seemed sturdier.  Best of all is the price.....



I can only hope that you are right; and that they aren't just a t-shirt with combat sleeves. 

I already have 2 OTW's so no new cost if I get the chance to deploy again.


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## AIC_2K5 (4 Apr 2010)

I've got a trial version, which I assume is similar if not identical to these ordered ones. I'll take pictures and post them when it gets back from the laundry. 

Think CP Gear OTW shirt, except flap - not zipper - pockets.



> In 08 our RSM banned them after guys paid a hefty price for them.



These are issued, not the CP Gear ones which are quite popular. I assume their use will be enforced similar to how things are now. For us KAF-types, the *OTW* shirts are only worn *O*utside *T*he *W*ire, ie before and immediatly after the patrol but that's it. Guys in the FOBs and strong points I've seen wearing them pretty much whenever.



> Nice shirt if your a fit looking guy/gal.Should look hilarious on our army.



Yep.


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## NL_engineer (4 Apr 2010)

Funny you mention that; I had to change out of my OTW before I left the tank park in KAF.  I bet with the new one the same rules will still apply: NOT allowed in KAF.


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## OldSolduer (5 Apr 2010)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Funny you mention that; I had to change out of my OTW before I left the tank park in KAF.  I bet with the new one the same rules will still apply: NOT allowed in KAF.


That doesn't surprise me one bit. A stupid rule. You should at least be able to get to your bunkspace before having to change.


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## TN2IC (6 Apr 2010)

This is what happens when old dogs are still around. They just don't want to learn new tricks.  :nod:


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## OldSolduer (6 Apr 2010)

TN2IC said:
			
		

> This is what happens when old dogs are still around. They just don't want to learn new tricks.  :nod:


Excuse me, but I resemble that remark!!


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## AIC_2K5 (15 Apr 2010)

I said previously that I'd post pictures of the new issued OTW shirt. I can't seem to figure out how to upload pics that aren't on the internet...either army.ca doesn't have the option or I'm just too dense to figure it out.

Sorry.

Like I said, nearly identical to CP Gear OTW shirt but with flap instead of zipper pockets.


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## George Wallace (15 Apr 2010)

Bubbles said:
			
		

> I said previously that I'd post pictures of the new issued OTW shirt. I can't seem to figure out how to upload pics that aren't on the internet...either army.ca doesn't have the option or I'm just too dense to figure it out.
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> Like I said, nearly identical to CP Gear OTW shirt but with flap instead of zipper pockets.



When you made this post, if you looked below the "text box" that you typed in, you will see "Additional Options" where you can upload Attachments.  





> Allowed file types: txt, doc, docx, pdf, jpg, gif, mpg, png, zip
> Restrictions: 4 per post, maximum total size 1024KB, maximum individual size 600KB



You may have to shrink your img files to meet the limit.


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## AIC_2K5 (15 Apr 2010)

Much obliged. The files are too big, unfortunately.


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## George Wallace (15 Apr 2010)

Bubbles said:
			
		

> Much obliged. The files are too big, unfortunately.



If you have PhotoShop, or MS Office Picture Manager, or Windows Photo Editor you can shrink those files.


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## Bzzliteyr (15 Apr 2010)

Or do a google search for :windows powertoys resizer" and you can do it so much easier!


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## The Bread Guy (15 Apr 2010)

Here's one such site Bzzliteyr is referring to:
http://jpeg-optimizer.com/


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## Bzzliteyr (15 Apr 2010)

milnews.. I like that site, bookmarked!!


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## GAP (15 Apr 2010)

Better yet, download Infranview....the resizing function is terrific and will take a 1Meg JPEG, resize it and have it readable at about 60-70 Kb....

http://www.irfanview.ca/

I generally right click on an image, save it to my hard drive, resize it, then use the "Additional Options" function to post it.


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## Bzzliteyr (15 Apr 2010)

GAP, with my powertoy addon (created by the MS people) you right click and resize right there!!  Depending on the size you resize it to it appends "small, medium, large" to the end of the file name.


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## GAP (15 Apr 2010)

Neat, I'll try it


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## AIC_2K5 (16 Apr 2010)

Thanks for the links. The internet browser I'm on won't let me access them on account of them being 'personal storage.'

I appreciate the effort.


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## NL_engineer (16 Apr 2010)

Bubbles said:
			
		

> Thanks for the links. The internet browser I'm on won't let me access them on account of them being 'personal storage.'
> 
> I appreciate the effort.



I take it you are trying on the DWAN? Take them home and try them on your own computer.


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## AIC_2K5 (17 Apr 2010)

Nope, the internet browser here in-theatre is silly. It's overly sensitive and won't let you access some ordinary sites. Myspace, any sites with media sharing like youtube, obviously porn, even some forum sites. I'm surprised I can even access this site.


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## Bzzliteyr (27 Apr 2010)

Go see the people from the company in their little ISO.  They'll unblock stuff that shouldn't be blocked if they deem it "good".  I did that with a weapons site I used to visit while I was there.


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## Jarnhamar (27 Apr 2010)

Do they still have the Pakistani run internet connection on KAF?


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## TN2IC (31 May 2010)

Any follow up on the OTW shirts? I heard they are the best from the boys that just came back. Looking to invest in one soon.

Regards,
TN2IC


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## NL_engineer (6 Jun 2010)

TN2IC said:
			
		

> Any follow up on the OTW shirts? I heard they are the best from the boys that just came back. Looking to invest in one soon.
> 
> Regards,
> TN2IC



Don't buy one.....


Buy 2, you will not regret getting 2; I went over with 1, and ordered a second 2 months into the tour.


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## KellGunner (28 Sep 2010)

Ok i was watching Army News today, the story about a pl escorting an ANA unit to a new base.  I saw a new shirt i have never seen before and after reading this i have come to realize that this is the shirt people on this thread were talking about.  It kinda looks weird.


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## BDTyre (3 Oct 2010)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> Don't buy one.....
> 
> 
> Buy 2, you will not regret getting 2; I went over with 1, and ordered a second 2 months into the tour.



Definitely get two.  I only had 1 and I wasn't willing to part with it for 3 days so it could go through the laundry.  I ended up hand-washing it in the sink for the last two months or so.


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