# The Sgt. Paisley Merged Thread



## Spr.Earl (21 Oct 2003)

Thai leaders downplay threat of missing Canadian explosives expert


Canadian Press 



BANGKOK (AP) - Thai leaders, who have thrown a tight security cordon around an Asia-Pacific summit, say they aren‘t at all worried about a Canadian explosives expert gone missing in Bangkok. 

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra downplayed any threat, and his ministers said Montgomery Paisley, a 40-year-old former military man, was mentally unbalanced and not a terrorist. "He is not a dangerous person," Thaksin said Sunday. However, Thai authorities say they would try to find Paisley, whose visa to Thailand has expired. Leaders of 21 countries began a summit here Monday of the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation forum. 

Prime Minister Jean Chretien is representing Canada at the talks. 

© Copyright  2003 The Canadian Press


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## big bad john (21 Feb 2005)

Military can't solve missing man riddle

By STEPHANIE RUBEC, SUN OTTAWA BUREAU

An intensive 19-month search that took military investigators to Asia has failed to turn up a highly trained Canadian explosives expert gone AWOL. Canadian Forces have called off the search for Sgt. Montgomery Paisley and kicked him out of the military. 

The military's National Investigation Service report on Paisley, obtained under the Access to Information Act, was almost entirely censored by the Defence Department. 

But information was included about NIS investigators' search of Paisley's home and their frequent contact with his family in New Brunswick and his girlfriend - all of whom claim not to have heard from Paisley since he left for Thailand in July 2003. 

EMPTIED ACCOUNTS 

Published reports say Paisley emptied his bank account and tidied up his affairs before his trip. 

The 16-year veteran of the Canadian Forces was working as an explosives expert with the secretive Joint Task Force 2 anti-terrorism force at the time. 

Investigators failed to find an explanation of Paisley's disappearance or his final destination. 

In July 2004, a full year after launching the probe, the NIS put Paisley's case on ice. 

NIS spokesman Cpt. Mark Giles said a "quite extensive" probe to locate Paisley, which took military investigators to Thailand, came up empty. 

"They've exhausted every avenue they have," Giles said. 

Giles said investigators have ruled out foul play, and don't believe Paisley has joined one of the many mercenary groups working in and around Thailand. 

NO PROOF 

"There was no indication that he left the Forces and left Canada to become part of some unsavoury activity," he said. 

Giles said no proof has been found to determine whether Paisley is dead or alive, and his passport has not been used since his disappearance. 

"It's an extremely strange situation," Giles said. 

"It's one of those rare occurrences." 

If Paisley surfaces, it will be up to his JTF 2 commanding officer to decide whether to press charges. 

He could be tried in a military court martial and could face up to two years in jail.


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## Too Poor (21 Feb 2005)

You don't have to be Magnum PI to figure out that this was planned, he probably got nailed in the Dec 26 Tsunami!!!

Too Poor


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## Kat Stevens (21 Feb 2005)

If Pais is still as huge as he used to be, they better have an elephant tranq gun and looots of guys to take him down.  If he ever shows up, o'course....

CHIMO,  Kat


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## Scoobie Newbie (21 Feb 2005)

He left for Thailand in July and the Tsunami hit in Dec 26.


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## MJP (21 Feb 2005)

> In July 2004, a full year after launching the probe, the NIS put Paisley's case on ice.



He was missing long before July 04 or the Tsunami.


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## FastEddy (21 Feb 2005)

big bad john said:
			
		

> Military can't solve missing man riddle
> 
> The military's National Investigation Service report on Paisley, obtained under the Access to Information Act, was almost entirely censored by the Defence Department.
> 
> ...



Does anyone know who and what this NIS team or investigators was made up of.


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## karl28 (21 Feb 2005)

:rage:            This guy is a traitor ! that piss me off . WIth his special training from JTF-2 you know he has probably gone into some MErc group down there to the highest bitter . It show where this scum's true loyalty's are   money only. To hell with him   sorry for the rant .


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## Kat Stevens (21 Feb 2005)

karl28 said:
			
		

> :rage:        This guy is a traitor ! that piss me off . WIth his special training from JTF-2 you know he has probably gone into some MErc group down there to the highest bitter . It show where this scum's true loyalty's are  money only. To heck with him  sorry for the rant .



Just to stir the pot a little...  I know Monty Paisley personally, and have a hard time believing this to be true of him.  Any number of other things could have led to this, including some form of mental meltdown or personal tragedy.  Bottom line is, we'll never know until he is found one way or another.  Traitor is a dirty word, and needs to be applied judiciously, IMHO....

CHIMO  Kat


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## 043 (21 Feb 2005)

Monty is not a traitor!


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## Franko (21 Feb 2005)

karl28 said:
			
		

> :rage:            This guy is a traitor !



Whoa.....that's a pretty bold statement!    

Let the powers that be place that label on him. I'm sure that there are a lot of people on this site who know him personally...and know what he's like.

Let the investigators sort out what he is or isn't....even if it takes a few years.

Regards


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## Wizard of OZ (21 Feb 2005)

Sorry that is the JAG department.

The NIS prob sent some Sgt and Cpl from WR as it would be thier AOR Unless they came from CR.

Not to many hoties in the MP world.  As far as the ninja/fighter pilot/sniper/and really good cook who's dad was downed in Vietnam

na no mps fit that, all though some think they are.

I don't know about traitor but it is kinda fishy.

tied up allot of loose ends before he left and no trasable credit card purchases hmm would seem to be a planned exit.  Unless he is in trouble somewhere.  

I will let this game play itself out for a bit before jumping on the traitor ship......


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## Kat Stevens (21 Feb 2005)

Wizard of OZ said:
			
		

> tied up allot of loose ends before he left and no trasable credit card purchases hmm would seem to be a planned exit.  Unless he is in trouble somewhere.


Many suicides clear up personal affairs before they act, in order to not leave a mess for those left behind to clear up.  As part of my work, I travel to other countries regularly, I therefore keep my ducks in a row, as bad things happen to nice people all the time.  Interesting that one guy goes missing, he's a traitor, successive Prime Ministers have sold this countries security down the river.......nuff sed...

CHIMO,  Kat


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## WATCHDOG-81 (21 Feb 2005)

Wizard of OZ wrote : "The NIS prob sent some Sgt and Cpl from WR as it would be thier AOR Unless they came from CR."

I would imagine that the investigation team was from NIS (SI).  The regions do not handle international investigations unless specifically tasked.  Furthermore, the member's unit falls under the AOR of NIS (CR) not NIS (WR).


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## EODSpr (21 Feb 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Just to stir the pot a little...   I know Monty Paisley personally, and have a hard time believing this to be true of him.   Any number of other things could have led to this, including some form of mental meltdown or personal tragedy.   Bottom line is, we'll never know until he is found one way or another.   Traitor is a dirty word, and needs to be applied judiciously, IMHO....
> 
> CHIMO   Kat



I agree Kat, those who don't know him should keep their opinions of him to themselves and not talk out of their a**, eh karl28!

E45

Chimo!


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## 043 (21 Feb 2005)

karl28,

You may or may not be an idiot, but IMHO, you most definitely are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Money??? Motivated by money???? He was in the Military for gods sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## karl28 (21 Feb 2005)

Sorry for offending I  read the post got angry but your right it could be for other reason I should give the benefit of the doubt but you here people doing things like this in other countries hope that it  would never happen her . Once again my apologise to any one that I offended .


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## Cloud Cover (21 Feb 2005)

Would everybody please refrain from using the "T" word ... it is just totally inappropriate, whether the subject is MIA's or the PMO the allegation is too heavy handed and out of place until such time as tangible evidence to the contrary arises.


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## Gunnerlove (22 Feb 2005)

People do odd things because they are people. 

Unless he is willfully acting against Canada and our national interests he is not a traitor. I can think of a great number of PQ politicians who should wear that title long before any Canadian soldier.


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## Kurhaus (22 Feb 2005)

Is there any proof that he has gone AWOL or is he just missing.  Anyway calling him a traitor maybe a bit premature and inappropriate. 

In the 80's, a Pte from 3 RCR in Germany went missing with his vehicle.  The COC called him everything from traitor to deserter but when his vehicle and body turned up a month later in the Rhine River, the COC regretted jumping to conclusions.   

Ever consider the possibly that maybe Monty is missing from somewhere else (Iraq, Afghanistan, take a pick) and this is all just smoke and mirrors?  This is JTF2 were are talking about.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Feb 2005)

..or that he is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing............


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## FastEddy (22 Feb 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> Hey your the MP you tell us.




I imagine that quote was meant to be highly amusing, but don't give up your day job.

Knowing the composision of the NIS Team (Experience, Qualifications and Branch's), might allow those reading these reports and conclusions with a greater speculative eye. However, this information might not be forthcoming, by design or otherwise.

The reasoning for this Soldier's disappearance is far reaching, but to suggest or conclude he is a Traitor is reaching too far.


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## rw4th (22 Feb 2005)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> ..or that he is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing............



Things that make you go hmmmm


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## Wizard of OZ (22 Feb 2005)

Fast Eddy 

The unit aor may be CR but the incident happend in WR AOR or the closest to it.   This does not mean that WR went but they could have gone.   CR most likely would have as it is an SI, and they have lots of those investigators.   Prob a Cap and LT.   Some dets do have a SI cell I know WR does.   

Ooooh, my mistake.... Then it'll be a hard assed but loveable ex-marine gunnery sgt super sleuth, his hottie sidekick, a newbie computer geek and a sexist moron.  For backup, a goth girl forensic genius, and a pathologist old enough to have done Tutankhamun's autopsy.  Thanks for the clarification.....

CHIMO,  Kat

I hope you are kidding, a goth chic in the military now you are going to far ;D, I was thinking more along the lines of a know it all way beyond his pay scale fellow who comes across as a little slower then the average joe and a partner who is kinda dragged along by their coattails as they solve things with little or no evidence to back up the claim.


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## garb811 (22 Feb 2005)

Wizard of OZ said:
			
		

> I hope you are kidding, a goth chic in the military now you are going to far ;D



I actually ran into a young Sig Op in the local mall one time and if she hadn't approached me, I would never have recognized her.   Folks have two seperate existances in many cases and if they put some thought into it, you'd never know what they're up to on the off duty hours.

As for the NIS team, I would have thought it was self evident who they were when they returned with imitation Rolex's and Gucci suits with nice dark tans (farmer tans of course since they were on duty after all) after conducting surveillance at the beaches of Phuket, Pattaya and Phi-Phi for a couple of weeks.   Would have been a laugh to be there with the RMS clerk doing their claim, "OK sir...so what exactly are all these receipts from Patpong about, and how are massages you got at a bar considered physiotherapy for an old tour wound?"


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## FastEddy (22 Feb 2005)

Wizard of OZ said:
			
		

> Fast Eddy
> 
> The unit aor may be CR but the incident happend in WR AOR or the closest to it.   This does not mean that WR went but they could have gone.   CR most likely would have as it is an SI, and they have lots of those investigators.   Prob a Cap and LT.   Some dets do have a SI cell I know WR does.
> 
> ...


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## Wizard of OZ (23 Feb 2005)

WR western region
AR  Atlantic region
SI   Sensitive investigations
CR  Central Region
AOR  Area of Responsibility

I think that was all of them in the post if i missed one let me know.


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## GGboy (23 Feb 2005)

Just for sake of argument ...
If this fellow intended to "go off the reservation" and join some merc unit or something similar, wouldn't it have made more sense for him to just quietly take his retirement and then bugger off when nobody was looking? I mean, why draw attention to yourself by disappearing so elaborately?
Not knowing the individual in question, it sounds to me more likely that this was triggered by some kind of personal problem, midlife crisis, what-have-you.


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## Edward Campbell (23 Feb 2005)

I only ever saw something even remotely like this once in my life.

A fellow, not in the military, won the lottery but said nothing, not a word, to anyone but a lawyer.   Then he â â€œ the lawyer, mostly, I guess â â€œ made all manner of preparations, in deepest secrecy.   Then one day the fellow left for work, just as normal, but detoured to the airport, thence to Toronto where he picked up the big, *Big* cheque, thence to the Caymans (or someplace like that) and then ... well, he just disappeared according to his wife and family and colleagues and employer and, and, and ... with all that money.

A _personal_ enough reason, I guess.


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## FastEddy (24 Feb 2005)

Wizard of OZ said:
			
		

> WR western region
> AR   Atlantic region
> SI     Sensitive investigations
> CR   Central Region
> ...




Thanks for the info., never to old to learn.

So, maybe a team of a Capt. & Lieut. of Sensitive Investigations from a Detachment from Central Region,
did or could have carried out the search and investigation.

With reference to "Detachment" I presume Military Police and the Officers would also belong to the MP Branch.

Or, was this investigation and report carried out by personnel without extensive police skills and specializing in Missing Persons and Abductions .


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## Wizard of OZ (24 Feb 2005)

Or, was this investigation and report carried out by personnel without extensive police skills and specializing in Missing Persons and Abductions .

One would like to think not but stranger things have happned.  Maybe they don't want to find him?


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## FastEddy (24 Feb 2005)

Wizard of OZ said:
			
		

> Or, was this investigation and report carried out by personnel without extensive police skills and specializing in Missing Persons and Abductions .
> 
> One would like to think not but stranger things have happned.   Maybe they don't want to find him?




Yes, I fully agree with you on both counts.

This case seems very suspicious.

One thing for sure, no   Label,speculation,conclusion or stigma should not be attached to this Soldier.
This will only be conclusive upon the finding of his corpse or hopefully his location and presence.|_


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## Kurhaus (24 Feb 2005)

Kurhaus said:
			
		

> Ever consider the possibly that maybe Monty is missing from somewhere else (Iraq, Afghanistan, take a pick) and this is all just smoke and mirrors?   This is JTF2 were are talking about.





			
				Wizard of OZ said:
			
		

> Maybe they don't want to find him?




Interesting comment, Wiz.  We may be thinking along similar lines.  A cover-up is possible.  The NIS work directly for the CF Provost Marshal, who reports directly to the Vice CDS and, if I remember DND 101 correctly,the VCDS is responsible for all overseas deployments.  What better way to hide the truth of an incident that occurred in a place where the CF is not "officially deployed.  It is strange indeed.


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## fundybaygirl (11 Mar 2005)

Monty has been missing since Jul 2003 vice 2004.  He was not released from the Service until 1 Dec 04.  Why?  His family HAS been given the Royal Canadian run around.  His personal finances were NOT all taken care of.  I am sure his DNA is on record and there is no evidence of him being found among any of the Tsunami victims.  He is definitely NOT a traitor.  These are the things we know for sure.  The rest is all pure speculation.  What is perfectly clear is he has vanished whether or not by his own volition.   He has left people behind who love him and worry about him and for them this is a tragedy, I think they deserve our respect.  Monty if you are reading this - a sign pal  - a sign.


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## FastEddy (12 Mar 2005)

fundybaygirl said:
			
		

> Monty has been missing since Jul 2003 vice 2004.   He was not released from the Service until 1 Dec 04.   Why?   His family HAS been given the Royal Canadian run around.   His personal finances were NOT all taken care of.   I am sure his DNA is on record and there is no evidence of him being found among any of the Tsunami victims.   He is definitely NOT a traitor.   These are the things we know for sure.   The rest is all pure speculation.   What is perfectly clear is he has vanished whether or not by his own volition.     He has left people behind who love him and worry about him and for them this is a tragedy, I think they deserve our respect.   Monty if you are reading this - a sign pal   - a sign.




Yes"fundybaygirl", thanks for bringing that to mind. One can't imagine the Heartaches of those left behind and not knowing.

Just keep positive, and some day all will be revealed.


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## Sub_Guy (14 Apr 2005)

Canadian Forces (CF) soldier missing from his unit for 21 months has been located in Thailand and returned to Canada on Wednesday, escorted by the military's National Investigation Service (NIS). 

Sgt. Montgomery Paisley reported to the Canadian embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, April 7, at which time arrangements were made to transfer him into Canadian custody. Members of the NIS traveled to Thailand to escort him back to Canada. 

Although the matter of his absence without authority is under investigation, his well-being and the welfare of his family are the CF's main concerns at this time. If charges are laid under the National Defence Act, this information will be made public with a subsequent news release. 

The NIS has a mandate to investigate serious and sensitive matters in relation to National Defence property and CF personnel serving in Canada and abroad.


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## Scoobie Newbie (14 Apr 2005)

Must be serious for the NIS to be going abroad to pick buddy up.


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## leopard11 (14 Apr 2005)

isnt that the JTF2 EOD soldier that went missing a while back?


{EDIT answered my own question with article}
Missing Cdn. soldier turns up at Bangkok embassy
Canadian Press

OTTAWA â â€ In July 2003, Special Forces Sgt. Montgomery Paisley cleaned out his bank account, sorted out his affairs, and vanished after a commercial flight to Thailand.

A 16-year veteran of the military, the explosives expert had an exemplary record and no signs of personal problems, yet he simply disappeared after landing in Thailand on Aug. 1, 2003.

During an extensive probe, Canadian and Thai investigators found no trace of Paisley. Last week, he turned up at the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok after 21 months.

Although he was officially discharged from the service in December 2004, he returned to Canada on Wednesday escorted by members of the military's National Investigation Service, who travelled to Thailand to fetch him.

"Although the matter of his absence without authority is under investigation, his well-being and the welfare of his family are the (Canadian Forces') main concerns at this time," said a Defence Department statement.

Investigators executed search warrants and interviewed family and friends after Paisley did not return from what was supposed to have been a two-week vacation. They acknowledged at the time they had found "red flags."

Paisley had been a member of the commando unit Joint Task Force 2 for six years.

His service included a 2002 tour in Afghanistan with a Canadian battle group fighting Taliban and al Qaeda holdouts out of Kandahar.

The Canadian Forces became particularly concerned about Paisley because his expertise was in explosives and defusing mines and booby traps.

Ottawa informed Thai police about his disappearance before the high-security Asia-Pacific economic summit in Bangkok in the fall of 2003.

While not believed to be a threat, he was thought to be carrying a laptop computer or notebook with bomb-making information. Interpol, the FBI and other international agencies were later alerted to his disappearance.

His trail went cold until April 7 when he approached Canadian officials in Thailand.

Citing his role in the highly secretive JTF-2 commando unit, the military has declined to release Paisley's home town, his marital status, his picture or his physical description. 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1113493265186_108902465/?hub=TopStories


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## Jarnhamar (14 Apr 2005)

> Must be serious for the NIS to be going abroad to pick buddy up.



Maybe they got tired of peeping in windows and listening to mess conversations.

'Hey who wants to go to thailand?!'


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## Hunter (14 Apr 2005)

This was the first I heard of this story...What kind of penalties is this guy facing?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050414.wmissing0414/BNStory/National/


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## Scoobie Newbie (14 Apr 2005)

Who know's.  No one has any idea what has gone on here and until more facts are released there is no sense in doling out penalties.


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## Kat Stevens (14 Apr 2005)

He's not facing any penalties unless/until he's charged, tried, and found guilty... There are a zillion and one things he could be charged with, depends on the investigation... speculation at this point is a waste of time...

CHIMO,  Kat


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## GO!!! (14 Apr 2005)

I know what happened!

He went on a nice solo vacation to Phuket, hit the tables, ran out of money and waited for the DND to supply him with a free return ticket!

He's not a traitor - he just spent his last $ at the craps table! ;D


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## perry (14 Apr 2005)

I 'm curious to find out what happened, maybe he is ill some how and requires treatment. Or maybe we will never find out.


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## Whiskey_Dan (14 Apr 2005)

I sure hope he didn't try to desert deliberately. It would be a shame to see someone with his experience be thrown into irons and locked up.
I sure dont know they guy but Im still confident all will work out and that he will tell us what happened.


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## KevinB (14 Apr 2005)

Maybe a little too invovled in the hunt for OBL?  ???

 Someone with 6yrs at DHTC does not typically just up and vanish


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## Kat Stevens (14 Apr 2005)

Unless Monty has changed RADICALLY in the years since I knew him, I can't see him "splitting from the whole f***ing program".  I don't think it's in him.....

CHIMO,  Kat


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## aesop081 (14 Apr 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Unless Monty has changed RADICALLY in the years since I knew him, I can't see him "splitting from the whole f***ing program".   I don't think it's in him.....
> 
> CHIMO,   Kat



Kat,

I did my first tour with Monty and i agree with you.


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## tomahawk6 (14 Apr 2005)

Since he is AWOL for 21 months that would be the minimum charge against him. If his status was changed to deserter then that would up the anty a bit. The NIS would want to know why Paisley was in Thailand. Who he worked with/for. Why he left his unit.


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## Acorn (15 Apr 2005)

I think, perhaps, that as entertaining as this "mess conversation" about his status may be, that it would be better for us to shut our pie-holes and stop speculating. I'll remind you all that the press has been known to read this forum, and we should let them make up their own stories rather than provide them with a "Speculation in the Ranks Is..." story.

Just a suggestion.

Acorn


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## GENOMS Soilder (15 Apr 2005)

Fri, April 15, 2005 


Missing soldier returns



By STEPHANIE RUBEC, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER




A FUGITIVE Canadian Forces explosives expert returned to Canada under military police escort Wednesday after turning himself in at Canada's embassy in Thailand. Sgt. Montgomery Paisley, a former member of the elite Joint Task Force 2 commando unit, surfaced 21 months after he cleared out his bank accounts, hopped a commercial flight to Thailand and disappeared. 

Sun Media reported in February that Paisley had been kicked out of the military and his secretive anti-terrorism unit following a fruitless search that took the military's National Investigation Service to Asia. 

The Canadian government advised Bangkok of the AWOL soldier shortly before the fall 2003 APEC summit in Thailand. 

At the time Thai officials dismissed concerns that Paisley, a 16-year veteran, posed a threat to the summit attended by 22 world leaders. 

Investigators have kept in close contact with Paisley's family in New Brunswick and girlfriend, all of whom claim not to have heard from Paisley since he left for Thailand in July 2003. 

National Investigation Service spokesman Capt. Mark Giles said Paisley walked into Canada's Bangkok embassy April 7 and was taken into custody until military investigators could escort him on a flight back to Canada. 

"On his return from Thailand to Canada we was calm and co-operative," Giles said. He is being held in custody at an undisclosed location. 

>http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2005/04/15/998492-sun.html<

I thought he died on the December 26th Tsunamis
Now what could be the biggest sentence for this.....he was a high profile soldier, was he not?
Also, do you think he could've hooked up with terrorist or just wanted a vacation from it all?


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## Sundborg (15 Apr 2005)

wow I can't believe he turned himself in after all of this!   I can't wait to see what they do with him.


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## Thompson_JM (16 Apr 2005)

Sundborg said:
			
		

> wow I can't believe he turned himself in after all of this!     I can't wait to see what they do with him.



Rather then see what they "do to him" id rather find out what the reason was as to why he just up and left.


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## SprCForr (16 Apr 2005)

If he needs help, I hope he can get it now. His family will be relieved. At least he's safe.


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## dinni33 (16 Apr 2005)

Last Updated Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:54:38 EDT 
CBC News

OTTAWA - An explosives expert with Canada's elite commando unit who disappeared after a two-week leave in August 2003 is now in military custody in Canada after showing up in Thailand

Questions remain about what Special Forces Sergeant Montgomery Paisley of Joint Task Force 2 did while he was missing, officials said. 

Paisley served a 2002 tour of duty in Afghanistan, fighting Taliban and al-Qaeda groups, before cleaning out his bank account, taking a commercial flight to Bangkok and vanishing. 

The native of Brown's Flat, N.B., had been in the Canadian military for 16 years. 

The case was a particular concern to Canadian authorities because Paisley specialized in explosives, mines and booby traps. Authorities believed he had a laptop computer containing bomb-making information when he disappeared. 

A total of 13 military investigators turned up no clues to his whereabouts for almost two years, said Capt. Mark Giles of the National Investigation Service (NIS). 

"Last week, Sgt. Montgomery Paisley approached the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, indicating he would like to return to Canada," Giles said Thursday. "After consultation with Thai authorities, members of the NIS travelled to Thailand and returned him safely home." 

The fact that Paisley emptied out his bank account indicates some premeditation, said military analyst David Rudd of the Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies. 

"Given the fact that he went to Southeast Asia, given the fact that his whereabouts and activities were unknown for the better part of two years ... this [is] a national security issue. You just can't avoid it," Rudd told CBC News. 

He said it's worrisome that highly trained military investigators could not track down the soldier. 

The military won't disclose Paisley's current location, citing national security. They will only say that he is safe and in custody at a "defence establishment in Canada." 

Members of Paisley's family in New Brunswick say they're glad he's safe but know nothing more about where he is.

Whats up with this is it a liability risk factor?


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## PatrickM (18 Apr 2005)

Well, looks like there's definitely gonna be some penance for his actions...
Although I suppose the true penalties and extent of offense will become apparent after court martial.

OTTAWA (CP) - Charges have been laid against a former Special Forces soldier who disappeared while on leave in Thailand 21 months ago, the military announced Monday. 

Sgt. Montgomery Paisley, an explosives expert who turned up at the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok on April 7, faces three charges - desertion, absence without leave and theft of a laptop computer containing bomb-making information. 

All charges have been laid under the Code of Service Discipline, meaning Paisley will face court martial even though he was officially discharged from the service in December 2004. 

"Sgt. Paisley is being held in custody and has been examined by a medical doctor," said a Defence Department statement. "He is entitled to legal counsel and contact with his family." 

In late July 2003, the New Brunswick native cleaned out his bank account, sorted out his affairs, and vanished after taking a commercial flight to Thailand. 

A 16-year veteran of the military, he had an exemplary record and no signs of personal problems when he disappeared after landing in the southeast Asian country on Aug. 1, 2003. 

During an extensive probe, Canadian and Thai investigators found no trace of Paisley before he turned up at the embassy, apparently with document problems. 

Thai police detained Paisley before turning him over to members of the Canadian military's National Investigation Service, who travelled to Thailand to fetch him. He arrived back in Canada last Wednesday. 

Investigators executed search warrants and interviewed family and friends after Paisley did not return from what was supposed to have been a two-week vacation. They acknowledged at the time they had found "red flags." 

Paisley had been a member of the commando unit Joint Task Force 2 for six years. He had spent a 2002 tour in Afghanistan with a Canadian battle group fighting Taliban and al-Qaida holdouts, based in Kandahar. 

The Canadian Forces became particularly concerned about Paisley because his expertise was in explosives and defusing mines and booby traps. 

Ottawa informed Thai police about his disappearance before the high-security Asia-Pacific economic summit in Bangkok in the fall of 2003. 

While not believed to be a threat, he was thought to be carrying a laptop computer or notebook with bomb-making information. Interpol, the FBI and other international agencies were later alerted to his disappearance. 

His trail went cold until he approached Canadian officials in Thailand. 

Citing his role in the highly secretive JTF-2 commando status, the military has declined to release Paisley's age, his marital status, his picture or his physical description. 


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/04/14/996912-cp.html


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## Canadian Sig (18 Apr 2005)

Anyone in here know what kind of punishment can be handed down for desertion or the AWOL and theft charges?


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## AmmoTech90 (18 Apr 2005)

Start here...

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/vol2/intro_e.asp

Think of it as professional development  >


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## Canadian Sig (18 Apr 2005)

Ouch...think I will just remain professional and avoid that kind of development.


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## aesop081 (19 Apr 2005)

Maybe he came back to collect the OBL reward........ ;D


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## Fraser.g (20 Apr 2005)

Charges laid against AWOL soldier
  
Stephen Thorne 
Canadian Press 


April 18, 2005


OTTAWA -- Charges have been laid against a former Special Forces soldier who disappeared while on leave in Thailand 21 months ago, the military announced Monday. 

Sgt. Montgomery Paisley, an explosives expert who turned up at the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok on April 7, faces three charges, desertion, absence without leave and theft of a laptop computer containing bomb-making information. 

All charges have been laid under the Code of Service Discipline, meaning Paisley will face court martial even though he was officially discharged from the service in December 2004. 

"Sgt. Paisley is being held in custody and has been examined by a medical doctor,'' said a Defence Department statement. "He is entitled to legal counsel and contact with his family.'' 

In late July 2003, the New Brunswick native cleaned out his bank account, sorted out his affairs, and vanished after taking a commercial flight to Thailand. 

A 16-year veteran of the military, he had an exemplary record and no signs of personal problems when he disappeared after landing in the southeast Asian country on Aug. 1, 2003. 

During an extensive probe, Canadian and Thai investigators found no trace of Paisley before he turned up at the embassy, apparently with document problems. 

Thai police detained Paisley before turning him over to members of the Canadian military's National Investigation Service, who travelled to Thailand to fetch him. He arrived back in Canada last Wednesday. 

Investigators executed search warrants and interviewed family and friends after Paisley did not return from what was supposed to have been a two-week vacation. They acknowledged at the time they had found "red flags.'' 

Paisley had been a member of the commando unit Joint Task Force 2 for six years. He had spent a 2002 tour in Afghanistan with a Canadian battle group fighting Taliban and al-Qaida holdouts, based in Kandahar. 

The Canadian Forces became particularly concerned about Paisley because his expertise was in explosives and defusing mines and booby traps. 

Ottawa informed Thai police about his disappearance before the high-security Asia-Pacific economic summit in Bangkok in the fall of 2003. 

While not believed to be a threat, he was thought to be carrying a laptop computer or notebook with bomb-making information. Interpol, the FBI and other international agencies were later alerted to his disappearance. 

His trail went cold until he approached Canadian officials in Thailand. 

Citing his role in the highly secretive JTF-2 commando status, the military has declined to release Paisley's age, his marital status, his picture or his physical description. 

No Comments, just an FYI

GF


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## winchable (20 Apr 2005)

The details of his activities during his absence would either make a very good movie/book or they'd be really wierd, like at the beginning of Apocalypse now where Martin Sheen is just getting drunk in a seedy hotel room.


Any idea if they'll ever tell the public what exactly happened?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Apr 2005)

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2005/04/21/1006386-sun.html

OTTAWA -- The Canadian military is hoping to hold a soldier's court martial behind closed doors. The hearing for Sgt. Montgomery Paisley, a former explosives expert with the elite commando unit Joint Task Force 2, was scheduled to begin yesterday but it was put off until today, when Paisley's lawyers can respond to the prosecution's request to close the hearing to the public. 

The soldier was charged under the National Defence Act with desertion, absence without leave and theft after he vanished in Thailand. Paisley was classified as "absent without authority" for 21 months before turning himself into the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok April 7.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (2 Mar 2006)

Missing soldier to face desertion charge
  http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/03/02/1469993-cp.html
OTTAWA (CP) - A former special forces sergeant who disappeared into southeast Asia for almost two years is to be tried on a single desertion charge during a court martial this spring. 

Ex-sergeant Montgomery Paisley faces trial June 5 on the charge, which in these circumstances carries a sentence of up to two years less a day in jail and dismissal with disgrace from the military. 
Paisley was originally charged with desertion, absence without leave and stealing, but the charges were reduced after review by a military prosecutor. 

Lt.-Col. Mario Dutil, a military judge since 2001, will preside at the court martial in Gatineau, Que. 
Paisley, an explosives expert with the JTF-2 commando unit, turned up at the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok last April 7. 
He had been officially discharged from the service in December 2004 but his records can be amended if he's convicted.


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## sneak and peek soldier (5 Mar 2006)

JTF2 soldier missing since 2003 surfaces in Thailand
Last Updated Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:54:38 EDT 
CBC News
OTTAWA - An explosives expert with Canada's elite commando unit who disappeared after a two-week leave in August 2003 is now in military custody in Canada after showing up in Thailand. 


INDEPTH: Joint Task Force 2

  
Montgomery Paisley (file photo)  
Questions remain about what Special Forces Sergeant Montgomery Paisley of Joint Task Force 2 did while he was missing, officials said. 

Paisley served a 2002 tour of duty in Afghanistan, fighting Taliban and al-Qaeda groups, before cleaning out his bank account, taking a commercial flight to Bangkok and vanishing. 

The native of Brown's Flat, N.B., had been in the Canadian military for 16 years. 

The case was a particular concern to Canadian authorities because Paisley specialized in explosives, mines and booby traps. Authorities believed he had a laptop computer containing bomb-making information when he disappeared. 

A total of 13 military investigators turned up no clues to his whereabouts for almost two years, said Capt. Mark Giles of the National Investigation Service (NIS). 

"Last week, Sgt. Montgomery Paisley approached the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, indicating he would like to return to Canada," Giles said Thursday. "After consultation with Thai authorities, members of the NIS travelled to Thailand and returned him safely home." 

The fact that Paisley emptied out his bank account indicates some premeditation, said military analyst David Rudd of the Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies. 

"Given the fact that he went to Southeast Asia, given the fact that his whereabouts and activities were unknown for the better part of two years ... this [is] a national security issue. You just can't avoid it," Rudd told CBC News. 

He said it's worrisome that highly trained military investigators could not track down the soldier. 

The military won't disclose Paisley's current location, citing national security. They will only say that he is safe and in custody at a "defence establishment in Canada." 

Members of Paisley's family in New Brunswick say they're glad he's safe but know nothing more about where he is.


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## geo (5 Mar 2006)

Ummmm.... yeah.
so what's the new development?
The man was back in Canada in 2005 and we're into 2006


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## SweetNavyJustice (5 Mar 2006)

It's always bugged me how the media portrays this guy as being more then he was.  As has been noted in more realistic open source accounts, the Sgt in question was a support trade member attached to the unit and NOTHING MORE!  That's not to take away from the great work that the support trades do at the unit but this seems to be yet another case where the media is just trying to besmirch the reputation of the people working at that unit.  Ridiculous!

Just my 2 cents.


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## Haggis (5 Mar 2006)

As Bruce posted above (Reply No. 77) his trial will be held on 05 June (Sorry Geo.  Got the dates mixed up in the PM.)

The CMs in the NCR are usually held at the Asticou Centre in Downtown Gatineau (formerly Hull).  Chances are that it will be closed to the public.







> Locked, and now continued in a new thread:
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/44006.0.html
> 
> OM


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## Armymatters (19 May 2006)

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/19/desertercharges-fri.html


> Desertion charges dropped against missing commando
> Last Updated Fri, 19 May 2006 16:46:24 EDT
> CBC News
> 
> ...



Mixed feelings about this... what do you think? I don't think he will remain in the military for long, probally will be discharged eventually.


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## GAP (19 May 2006)

It sets a precedent that may come back to haunt them.  I don't know if there is any "good" way to handle this type of defense without looking either crass and vindictive or easily manipulated.


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## Sheerin (20 May 2006)

*tinfoil hat on*  Maybe he was on some super secret JTF2/Ninja Black op... and this is all a cover.... *tinfoil hat off*


Please forgive that retarded post of mine


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 May 2006)

So if your depressed your excused any wrong doing?

I've been unimpressed with our justice system as of late.


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## Dissident (20 May 2006)

Dunno, thats a hard one without knowing the guy.

I recently read on killing from D. Grossman, and I have new appreciation for the effects combat can have on the mental health of soldiers.

 I am no expert, but if someone is not receiveing support and confirmation that his action were good, the negative effect on the psyche can be hard to understand for the ones who have not seen the elephant.

I would be inclined to give him all my support. If he wants to stay in the army (which I would doubt) and he is deemed fit for duty, I have no issues with him wearing the uniform. 

Maybe thats just me...


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## S McKee (20 May 2006)

I believe the administrative side of the house will kick in and he will be discharged. Insofar as the NCR defence to the charge, that's a pretty tough one to prove in court. From my experience some of our military prosecutors are a little too timid when it comes to persuing charges especially if there is a chance the defence has a good case.


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## JasonH (20 May 2006)

Since this is a matter of this man being a (former?) JTF-2 member and as a result any number of possibilities as to why he was gone for that period of time.  I don't think it would be in our best interest to speculate on whether or not in this case it would be prudent to comment on unless you worked with this man or know, personally, info pertaining to this trial.

Now in general a discharge and criminal investigation sounds like the right doing in my (civilian) opinion.  Thats my 2 cents, please correct me if I stand wrong.


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## KevinB (20 May 2006)

I beleive he was already released.


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## Scratch_043 (20 May 2006)

Ah, it's good to be back, I missed the intelligent conversation, rather than mindless ranting and arguements I have witnessed of late on other forums.
we definately need to get a tinfoil hat emoticon though, the number of times people type it out.....


I also have feelings from both sides of the coin.

On the one face (yes, pun intended), he should be treated like any other soldier who goes AWOL, and have the same reprocussions, and considerations regarding state of being. I agree that 'I was depressed, so I left' is not a valid reason for doing so, but he did come back eventually. There is no reason that he couldn't have returned, and then asked for help, followed by an evaluation and discharge for those reasons.

On the other, the military should be taking more responsibility for the evaluation of these sorts of problems in order to prevent such things from happening.


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## NavComm (20 May 2006)

I agree with KevinB, I seem to recall hearing that Sgt. Paisley has already been released from the CF.

It's fruitless IMO to be armchair lawyers here and comment on whether or not the decision to drop the charges against Sgt. Paisley is the correct one or not. It is what it is and obviously people in the know decided this is the best course of action.

Sgt. Paisley gave 16 years of his life dedicated to the CF and Canadians. From what I've read on these forums from people who know him, he was a dedicated and honourable soldier. If the courts want to cut him some slack, who am I to disagree? I hope he's able to rid himself of whatever demons sent him into solitude for two years.


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## paracowboy (20 May 2006)

NavComm said:
			
		

> I hope he's able to rid himself of whatever demons sent him into solitude for two years.


seconded.


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## Kat Stevens (20 May 2006)

I served with Pais, and he was a solid, all round squared away troop.  There's no doubt in my mind that this is not a dodge, he's just not the type.


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## Daidalous (20 May 2006)

i remember this happening. Caused quite a spinning. I never seen so many people in beards in my life.  Glad to hear that he is alive, but I would love to know why.






- edited for potential PERSEC issue


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## Chimo (20 May 2006)

Any speculation on anyones part not involved in the process is just that speculation. If a board has decided that all charges are dropped that's good enough for me. I hope he gets the help he needs and deserves.


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## HollywoodHitman (20 May 2006)

Noone is made of stone or bullet proof. Cut the guy some slack......Maybe, just maybe the military justice system worked this time, recognized a mental health issue for once and this soldiers whole life won't be ruined by some issues over which he had little to no control. I don't know him from Adam, but good luck to him and I wish him a full recovery. 

My .02


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## Journeyman (20 May 2006)

Wow, I spent 10 days in Thailand and it almost killed me. Two YEARS !?  Atta boy!    ;D

OK, OK...... My info is based only upon the media, but I feel the system worked. Hopefully there will still be some support net for him as he continues working through his demons.


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## Enzo (20 May 2006)

Desertion... Not a black and white subject. Since no other members safety was compromised and if he wasn't a security risk, then what purpose would it serve to incarcerate him?

This is a topic that requires individual attention. So in this case, the only question is what is necessary for him to get better and maybe some questions should be posed on how to maintain vigilance in order to prevent further losses to mental health, etc...


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## Scoobie Newbie (20 May 2006)

Security risk.  With the knowledge he possessed what makes you think he couldn't (not saying he did) be reveling secrets to some kind of guerrilla group?


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## Five-to-One (20 May 2006)

Im not a conspiracy theorist or anything but I wonder if the CF had somehow neglected their duties to ensure the mental health of their soldiers and this had something to do with the charges being dropped against Sgt. Paisley. For any who answer this, yes I have kept in mind that maybe they were trained to be able to cape with tough situations and not "lose it".


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## Enzo (20 May 2006)

As I said Quag, *"if"* he wasn't a risk. If he was (not saying that he was either, just hypothesizing) then NIS should do their thing.

Besides, on that note, what's to stop anyone from doing something that they shouldn't? Isn't that sorted by the security clearances?  :-X


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## Kat Stevens (21 May 2006)

Quagmire said:
			
		

> Security risk.  With the knowledge he possessed what makes you think he couldn't (not saying he did) be reveling secrets to some kind of guerrilla group?



That's a bit of a stretch.  We learn what we know about bomb making by autopsying their bombs, they don't learn it from us.  We're playing catchup hockey with the baddies out there.


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## Scoobie Newbie (21 May 2006)

If you don't think JTF SOP's are something the baddies would like to know then we will have to agree to disagree.


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## 043 (21 May 2006)

Atta go Monty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KevinB (21 May 2006)

I think this discussion, like the charges where, should be dropped!


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## Fishbone Jones (21 May 2006)

If anyone has anything relevant to add, contact a Mod.


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