# Getting your FAC



## Blunt Object (29 Nov 2004)

I want to get my FAC as soon as I can. I'm 17 and I'm joining the reserves in February will that help me at all (will i get it through the army). I also want to collect fire arms like MGs and some Automatics. Is that possible in Canada (Ontario).

Any info would be appreciated thanks.


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## D-n-A (29 Nov 2004)

To get your FAC I believe you have to be 18 or 19. And you will not get your the FAC through the military. Even if you have a restricted/unrestricted license, I don't believe you can buy a working Machine Gun, an for automatic rifles, you can only buy ones that are semi-auto, not automatic.


Look around the canadiangunnutz.com forum, I'm sure it will have all the information on how to get your FAC an more.


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## Blunt Object (29 Nov 2004)

thanks for the info, i'll check out the site.
so i can own automatics converted to semi-autos. but how do I get an MG? i've seen them at gun shows.


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## Scratch_043 (29 Nov 2004)

You can NOT own automatics, period.

For a PAL (possession and acquisition license) you must be 18, and have to take the test from a registered instructor.

The MGs that you saw at the show are NWR (non-working replicas) which means that they have been made safe, and will not fire, this is done by sealing the breech, pinning the bolt back, etc.

There are 3 types of firearms under the CFC: unrestricted, restricted, and prohibited

First you take your test to get your unrestricted PAL, which lets you own and purchase long rifles and shotguns (not automatic) and there is a limit on ammunition storage,

After that, you can take another test for your restricted license, which includes handguns (longer than 5" barrel)

Lastly, Prohibited, you may not own handguns with a barrel of less than 5" length, or automatic, or capable of becoming automatic, firearms.


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## M16 (15 Dec 2004)

You can get a minors firearm license if ur under 18.


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## Scratch_043 (15 Dec 2004)

M16 said:
			
		

> You can get a minors firearm license if ur under 18.


yes, but this does not entitle you to PURCHASE or OWN firearms, only to shoot (when there is a licensed person supervising)


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## Da_man (15 Dec 2004)

ToRN said:
			
		

> yes, but this does not entitle you to PURCHASE or OWN firearms, only to shoot (when there is a licensed person supervising)




No, you can purchase or own them but they must be registered with someone over 18 with his PAL.  That person basically endorses you


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## mudgunner49 (16 Dec 2004)

ToRN,

To clarify a couple of points... ;D

The wpns in question are not "made safe", they are "deactivated".

There are several sub-categories of prohibited ie. 12(6) (short-barreled handgun, cal .25 &.32), and CA (converted auto), none of which this individual may own if they are not already grandfathered... :'(

The barrel length cut-off for restricted vs. prohib is 4.125" (105mm) and not 5" (we have already excluded tooo many fine firearms arbitrarily, let's not get carried away...) :rage:


Take care,

Blake


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## chrisf (16 Dec 2004)

Reference the machine guns, you can legally own them, but they're not capable of automatic fire, instead, they're converted to semi-automatic or bolt action.

Interestingly, for machine guns that are belted, not magazine fed, since there's no actual law on the books about using belted ammunition, you're alllowed to use belts of any length. It's going to take you quite a long time to fire a 250 round belt on semi-automatic though, and I wouldn't even bother with bolt action.

And Torn, Non-Working Replicas are actually illegal. As somone pointed out, the weapons were likely deactivated automatics.


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## chrisf (16 Dec 2004)

Oh, and regarding belted ammunition, I highly doubt any case has been brought before the courts involving a belt in a box (Such as the C9), that being said, they'd probably consider it a magazine, so just use the belt alone.


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## Da_man (16 Dec 2004)

Yep, heres a Non-Restricted (req. std. PAL/FAC only) Browning M2HB .50 cal machine gun.



http://www.marstar.ca/semi-mg/live-M2HB.htm


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## mudgunner49 (16 Dec 2004)

Sig Op,

If a firearm is converted from a fully-automatic (or select fire) to semi-automatic, it is classified as a Converted Auto, and as a result can *only* be possessed by those who are "grandfathered" into the class.   What this means is that you possessed at least one firearm in the class *at the time the law passed*.   To the best of my knowledge, deactivated machineguns are perfectly legal to possess as they are no longer classified as firearms...


YMMV,


Blake


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## chrisf (16 Dec 2004)

Yes, that being said, there are manufacturers producing semi-automatic only versions their machine guns. If it comes from the factor as a semi-automatic weapon, it's kosher.


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## chrisf (16 Dec 2004)

And yes, I noticed that I said converted originally, consider that a brain fart.


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## Scratch_043 (16 Dec 2004)

Just a Sig Op said:
			
		

> consider that a brain fart.


Same goes here for the 'made safe' comment, and the 5", it was off the top of my head.

Mud Gunner, to the best of my knowledge, Deactivated firearms under the new regs. are considered non-firing replicas, and therefore are prohibited. That is why Airsoft is in the legal grey area, the guns are not non-firing replica's, as they do fire an small pellet, but also do not fall in the category of firearms, because they fire under the 500fps limit. 

Please let me know if I am in error.

(as for the sub-categories, I didn't want to further complicate the issue.)


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## mudgunner49 (17 Dec 2004)

ToRN said:
			
		

> Same goes here for the 'made safe' comment, and the 5", it was off the top of my head.
> 
> Mud Gunner, to the best of my knowledge, Deactivated firearms under the new regs. are considered non-firing replicas, and therefore are prohibited. That is why Airsoft is in the legal grey area, the guns are not non-firing replica's, as they do fire an small pellet, but also do not fall in the category of firearms, because they fire under the 500fps limit.
> 
> ...




According to sources at Marstar and the Chief Provincial Firearms Officer's Office, the law states that once deactivated the device ceases to be a firearm for the purposes of ownership, however if a crime is committed with said device the penalty can be the same as for the use of an actual firearm.  To be a non-firing replica, the device would have to be manufactured as such and not converted, whereas the deactivated firearm was once an actual workable blaster...

There are specific regulations for the use and display of deactivated weapons.  Someone else please chime in here if I'm totally off-base, but I think that pretty much covers it...


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## chrisf (17 Dec 2004)

Your knowledge is flawed. Deactivated firearms are specifically referenced as being legal.


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## Da_man (17 Dec 2004)

So you could own a deactivated AK-47, but not a replica of it, right?


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## chrisf (17 Dec 2004)

As I understand the law.


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## Scratch_043 (17 Dec 2004)

hmm, I had always thought that deactivated firearms were classified as replicas, learn something new every day.


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## McAllister (17 Dec 2004)

Those unrestricted Ma Deuces and M1919s are hilarious.  Bit too heavy for moose hunting I think... :threat:

The semi-auto M2 is unrestriced but isn't the 50 cal. becoming prohibited ammunition in Canada?


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## chrisf (17 Dec 2004)

Because there are all sorts of people knocking over convenience stores with fifties.


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## redleafjumper (7 Jan 2005)

.50 cal ammunition is not presently prohibited in Canada.  Several .50 calibre firearms were prohibited by order in council but many have been made and designed since that are not prohibited.  Incidentally deactivated firearms are not classed as replicas.  For more information on this subject you may wish to visit www.nfa.ca   (National Firearm Association website - check the links) and there are some good discussions on www.canadiangunnutz.com (Discussion board - much like this one -some excellent info, some dubious like any other).  See also the Criminal Code Part 3 the Firearms Act and The Fireams Act Regulations.  

There are no longer any valid "FACs" in Canada.  All that is available to new applicants are PALs - or possession acquisition licences.  As earlier stated tests can be taken for restricted and non restricted licenses.  There are folks in Canada that can own full automatic and converted automatic, but they had to already own them at the time the law changed.  There would be no legal full auto owner in Canada under the age of 43 as of date of writing, and most are older than that.


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## redleafjumper (10 Jan 2005)

Here is the federal site that lists the orders-in-council of prohibited weapons (not just firearms):

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/sor-98-462/84506.html


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