# Comparing the Combat Arms (Inf vs. Engr vs. Armd vs. Arty)



## Cog

Joining up part time, need to decide. I‘m currently taking engineering at University, but I‘m looking for a challenge and a chance to see if I cut it as a soldier. I‘m going in as a NCM. I have a cousin was in infantry for 12 years (Started out in the Highlanders, where I‘d be going). I‘ve heard a fair bit about the infantry from him and like everything I hear, but I want to shop around first. After reading a bit here, I‘m hearing that as Combat Engineer, I get to do infantry training, plus build bridges & blow stuff up. Sounds like the best of both worlds...

So, any opinions? Should I go Infantry or Combat Engineer?


----------



## Disturbance

hey cog,

I am enrolled in engineering at UBC and in the Seaforth Highlanders as an infanteer.  However my marks suffered as I spent too much time thinking about the forces and various other things other than school which is kinda backwards. I have got more to say so why dont you email me and I will try and help you out aiight.


----------



## the patriot

Not to further confuse you two, but Assault Pioneers  within the infantry do extremely similar work to that of the Combat Engineers (for example the RCR Assault Pioneer Platoon).  Now, with respect to worrying about one‘s marks suffering..... An understanding Chain of Command should take your life as a university student FIRST.  The last thing you want is to be on academic probation and then shown the proverbial door off campus.  I would assume that your Platoon Commander should be sympathetic of this due to the fact that most officers at the reserve level are enrolled university students themselves.  As long as there is a proper flow of communication between you and your superiors (when and if you enlist of course) there shouldn‘t be any other problems.  After that you only have yourself to blame for shoddy time management skills.

-the patriot-


----------



## Grunt031

Join the infantry...all the others are just there to hand us the saw....


----------



## McG

If Infantry is what you want to do most, you should probably join the Infantry.  Combat Engineers do fight as infantry in our secondary role, however time for courses and exercises is constrained in the reserves.  Priority for training goes to Engineer tasks.  

Where are you thinking of joining?  Some Reserve Infantry regiments have pioneer platoons.  As was mentioned they do a lot of tasks similar to the Combat Engineers (but on a .*smaller* scale).  They will do the Explosives and mine warfare, but they do not do the bridging


----------



## Cog

I‘d be joining in Calgary, which means Highlanders for infantry ( I‘ve heard they‘re pretty hardcore), or 33 Feild Engineer Squadron. Infantry stuff holds the most appeal, because that‘s what the army is about. At least to me. But I‘m also interested in explosives, bridging, etc. If you look at the 33‘s homepage (33fes.com) they do seem to do a fair bit of infantry training. Going down to Yank bases for obstical courses, assault boat stuff, urban warfare with Calgary‘s tactical unit, etc.

However, I‘m pretty sure I‘m going to go infantry, at least to start. I‘m not too sure how long I‘ll be in the military for, and I want to do it right. If I stay for a bit, I may eventually remuster to the Engineers. But we‘ll see. The recruiter thinks I should start in infantry, if not for the training, then just do something different than what I already do 8 months of the year. And there‘s something to be said for that...   

Still gonna think about it though.

Thanks again,

Cog.


----------



## Grunt031

Be careful, it is really hard to remuster in the military.  The higher-ups look at it as a waste of training (re:money) to get you to where you are.  I know a guy who tried to remuster to infantry.  He had to leave the militia and reapply like a civvie off the street to his new unit.


----------



## McG

Here is a good post on what Engineers do.


----------



## Roko

Hi,

I‘m planning on joining the reserves soon, (something I‘ve been thinking about throughout high school), but I‘m kinda torn between choosing an MOC. I can‘t decide between being a Field Engineer or an Armoured soldier.. (both have reserve units at the local CFB) So... from people who are in these MOCs, especially reservists, what are they each really like? what do you do as a reservist in them?

Also, I‘ll throw in another question.. has anyone taken the 20 weekend part time basic? I wish I‘d joined earlier and taken full time baisc this summer, but I had some other big things that needed to be done this summer, and in the fall I‘m off to Uni.. I‘d like to do basic asap, but am aprehensive about losing 5 months of weekends (no skiing this winter.. aaaaagh!), especially with my studies., and on the other hand don‘t want to wait much longer to join and do basic..

thanks..  :sniper:


----------



## Bill Green

Roko...,

Good on you for checking out both eng and armour.

I am an armoured soldier.  The armour MOC is divided into armour and recce.  In both you start out by taking your QL2 basic course which is common to all Mocs and then you begin to specialize.  You become a crewman and in the armour world you either drive,shoot or load a tank while in the recce world you drive,observe.  In both at some further stage in your training you crewcommand the tank or recce veh (Iltis).

From my own experience I and my unit have done both roles.  As a tanker you stomp around the battlefield area trying to pick a fight with the enemy. As a recce soldier you use stealth and concealment to gain info on the en and ground.  Both require drive, initiative, cunning and guile. 

Both have an echelon system to support their call signs c/s in the field(veh and crew).  Again you may drive a supply veh, issue kit, repair veh, cook, clerk or repair weapons/radios and tend wounded.  Some of these tasks are in specialized MOCs like medic but crewman also do the task.

The leadership skills you learn and the field experience you gain will make you a better citizen more confident in your own abilities.  You will also hone team building skills which you can apply to most work places.

And lastly you will be a part of a regimental family where you will count on others and in turn be counted upon.

Engineers are like trolls.You find them on roads, bridges and minefields.  Just kidding..., they are a noble race of soldiers with particular trade and technology skills and you really should talk to one of them about their craft.

It‘s been a long time since I took my recruit course but I still have friends from that course over _ _ years later.  Some swear that if you don‘t do a total immersion you don‘t get all the military culture.  Others claim that weekend work can give you the same challenge.  Go find a soldier in one of the units M/Cpl, Sgt or Warrent Officer and get him or her to advise you as they will know the instructors and leadership cadre and hence the tempo and tone of the course.  Then jump in with both feet.

Good Hunting

BG
Reconnaissance with Courage and Integrity


----------



## colgan

Roko i am not sure where you live but here in southern ont. your ql2 is 16 weeks long and is every other weekend ,so ski on my friend.And what about checking out the backbone of the army the infantry.i am sure there is a unit where you are.


----------



## Roko

I‘m near CFB Edmonotn, so there‘s pretty much a unit of everything in the army here.. I‘m also considering infantry, but recently I‘ve been thinking about either engineers or armour more..

I asked the local reserve recruiter, and was told it would last about 20 weekend, but wasn‘t told if it was every weekend or not..

hmmm...


----------



## colgan

it has to be every other weekend because the ql2 summer course is one month (30 days) so if your fall ql2 course was 20 weeks that would work out to be 60 days (training weekend counts as 3 days from friday at 1800 hrs to sunday at 1900 hrs) so if it was every other weekend that would work out to 10 training sessions or 30 days.  Hope this info helps.  Infantry is the only way to go!!


----------



## Roko

excellent.. every other weekend would work out pretty good.. I think I just might do that.. I‘d prefer to do the summer course, but as I said, I a;ready had some other comitments this summer (*cough* sumo robots for a competition *cough*), and don‘t really want to wait until next summer.. 

As for the infantry, I‘ve only so far heard bad opinions about it, but those where only from ppl in the service regiment, who, well, weren‘t real soldiers (not sayig that all service ppl aren‘t soldiers, just the people I know..), so I didn‘t really take those ‘opinions‘ into account... (they where about how it was too hard, and you break fingers and stuff, as compared to sitting in a warm truck with a cup of coffee in the service.. one of my reasons for joining the army is a physical challenge, so...)

What has the infantry been like for you?

Also, Bill Green, your info say‘s you‘re a Major.. My question is where you an NCM before becoming an officer, and how did you go about doing it? I‘m going to uni this fall, and am thinking of joining the regular forces as an officer after uni, but want to get a taste for military life, and experience as an NCM (at least in the reserves) before becoming an officer, so I‘m joining the reserves now...


----------



## Bill Green

Roko...,

Started out as a recruit pte took my trades courses then leadership courses and became a senior NCO (Sgt) and then commissioned from the ranks(CFR) to 2/lt. and then took my officer training.  I recommend this route because it allows you to gain the experience of knowing what it is your soldiers are experiencing.  i found that valuable.

You should also know that the CF values education and will assist you at university whether you are a pte or officer.  There is a 2000$ gratuity per year that can be applied to your tuition costs through to your 4 year max degree.  But you must choose to stay in the reserves while in school.  Of course they will also attempt to give you summer employment and of course evening and weekend work Sep to May.

After you have been in awile you will know your way around and you can put in for officer training.  This will take the concurrence of your CO and a PSO interview.

Keep your powder dry and your arm steady.


----------



## Roko

Wow, that sounds great.. I think I just might do that... the part time basic begins in late fall, so If I‘m going to take that, I guess I‘ll have to decide on an MOC soon, and begin the enlistment process asap..


----------



## RCA

Just to muddy the waters a bit more. Think about the Artillery. You would be joining the one joining one of the most prestigious regiments in the CF, Few others can boast the battle honour of Ubique (Everywhere). Also I know for a fact the new CO of 20 Fd Regt is one of the best around, being ex-Reg F and one of those considered one of the good guys. The old CO was good, but with LCol M. they now have the pull to go places. (this is a good thing).

All arm twisting asiode, what ever MOC/Regt you decide to join, if you have the dedication will become the best in the CF. The is the pull of our Regimental system. buddies, Detachment, Troop, Battery, Regiment, Brigade, Area. And who ever you are with, none is better.

The new QL2 is 20 days long. Whether it will be in effect for this fall , I couldn‘t tell you (one now is 16 days). However which ever unit/garrison you go to find info, find out (ask, they should give you a straight answer) and find out how it is running. every weekend, or alternate.


----------



## ender

I personaly have to say that Engineers are the best. (I‘m biased of course)  Not that I have anything against the armoured or anything, but I became a Sapper because I thought we were the best.  You actually get useful skills and you have to be able to use initiative, but I‘ve elaborated on this elsewhere.

I did a weekend QL2 course and I have to say that it is vastly inferior to a summer course.  It doesn‘t prepare for Gagetown (which is where you go if you are an Engineer) or for any further military training.  However, since you already missed the summer course it is better to take it on weekends than try to do the "superman" (a QL2 course immidiatly followed by a QL3).  A lot of people injure themseleves on those courses and don‘t get to finish the entire thing.  If you do the weekend course though make sure you physically prepare yourself. (ie make sure your P.T. is up to snuff and that your feet are used to walking in combat boots)

Also, the QL2 is shorter now, just this year, I think it‘s 3 weeks or something like that.

Anyway, good luck with you descision.


----------



## Roko

Yeah, I think I‘m going to go for Engineer.. I think Armour and Infantry are really cool, but you get to do some infantry stuff in Engineering too, as I gather..

I really regret not being able to take my QL2 this summer, and I don‘t really want to put it off until next summer, although I‘m not sure if I‘ll take it part time or not yet.. 

I think I‘m pretty fit right now.. I‘ve been swimming every day (except when sick) for over 3 years, and have been running o-noff since before then.. (going to start running again regularly.. I can still run 5k at a fairly good clip non stop) 

I‘m kinda worried about my upper-body strength, though, since I‘m fairly lean (I prefer the term ‘hydro-dynamic‘  and tall. It‘s primarily because I‘ve got small bones, and don‘t really have an excess bodyfat.. I can do more than the minimum of pullups, pushups (twice as many on a good day) and sit-ups as prescribed by the PAR-Q, and can do the run under the ‘superior‘ time..
I‘ve been doing some weight training, although I‘m going to increase my program (it‘s pretty small right now, I‘m giong to add more excersices, reps and sets.. I know what my body can take, so I shouldn‘t injure myself..) 

Even though I consider myself in good shape now, I feel I can always improve, especially for the QL2..


----------



## ender

It‘s more the QL3 you have to worry about, or if you do a QL2 in Gagetown.  We do insane amounts of pushups.  (50 to go to the bathroom, sometimes sets of a 100)  The amount they tell you for recruiting is not adequate at all.

No matter what shape you are in I would still not reccommend doing your 2‘s and 3‘s in one summer.  My friend is a marathon runner and she screwed up her feet and got RTU‘d (returned to unit) off her 3‘s.  Go for the part time 2‘s, less chance of you injuring yourself.  

Is there an Engineer unit in you area?  Check it out if there is.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

> Originally posted by Recce41:
> [qb]Well all you Weekend warriors can relax,
> -so add it up 31 weeks. If u get hurt after 4 weeks you should have not bothered joining. The Army is hard work! You are Weak if a week of hard work hurts go back to Mcdonalds.
> [/qb]



 It‘s nice to see that superior, condicending attitude is still alive and well the way some regs view the reserves. We don‘t need the gov‘t to get rid of the reserves, just leave it to our full time brothers-in-arms(?). All those deployments we go on, (manning up to 25% of some missions) still leaves us unqualifed to share the same air I guess.


----------



## Fishbone Jones

I may be off a bit on the %, but it does not alter the facts.  A lot of the young, part time soldiers or cadets are looking at reg force fellas posting on this forum. They‘re looking for guidance, assurance and a genuine interest in gaining knowledge. They look to you for that. They likely see your responses as the final word on the subject(s). Comments like yours are not productive. I guess regs don‘t get hurt anymore, let‘s close NDMC and stop sick parades, we can save some money. Oh, and you didn‘t hurt my feelings. You see I‘ve been on both sides of the fence and heard the snivelling from both reg and res about each other and that‘s exactly what it is, snivelling and whining. I‘ve also seen people, from both sides, at least willing to do something to try solve the problems, rather than just slag the opposition, tell them their not worthy and go flip burgers. At least these young people try it on. Hey, it ain‘t for everyone. Not every reg goes from basic to retirement either. Take a pill and relax. Your technical expertise is well appreciated. We have a pretty good time here, try and enjoy it. Valid points are well accepted and debated with enthusiasm. Heck, sometimes we might(?) even admit being wrong. We don‘t need to belittle the efforts of others to make a point. The competition at SOCNET is the place to mindlessly rail at people. It‘s kind of the 22:00 hrs, fri nite, in the snakepit atmosphere of military forums. Rant ends, out.  

*Audax et Celer (1972-75)*

PS- still wondering if your the Coyote patrol attachment to my troop for 2 weeks from now.


----------



## Roko

I‘ll admit some people I know in the reserves don‘t really care about soldiering, they just care about impressing women, and getting money. they don‘t want to fight for their country.

I‘m thinking of reserving because I want to get my education before I go regular, but don‘t want to enter after uni without some experience. some of my friends are doing this too. I‘ve got a buddy becoming an airforce pilot after uni, and another friend doing DOTP after some years in the reserves and uni.

but then again, right now I‘m even considering entering the reg force for a few years after my first year of uni, then going back to finish it off..

 :bullet:  :bullet:


----------



## Roko

guess I‘ll throw in another question.. It was mentioned that the army values education. So, my question now would be what the army provides for reg soldiers who want to go to university (in my case it would be finish). I was talking to a reg force guy recently, and he said there was something after so many years of service, but wasn‘t sure of the details. I know about the ROTP right out of high school, but I‘m not doing that.. I want to be a ‘real soldier‘ (aka. NCM) for a while before going over to the dark side (officerhood).

p.s. not making fun of officers.. I just want to be an NCM first so I know what‘s going on (aka to become a good officer), and so that I don‘t get to be a desk jockey right away.


 :bullet:  :bullet:


----------



## ender

Right now there will be a max 2000$ re-embursment for reservists in post-secondary education.  I‘m not too sure about the rules, I think you have to parade with your unit for a year.  This is also affecting how reg force can get an education, especially for NCM‘s.   I have no idea of the details of that because I‘m not reg force, but I‘m sure you can get the information somewhere.


----------



## McG

> Originally posted by Roko:
> [qb]. . . but then again, right now I‘m even considering entering the reg force for a few years after my first year of uni, then going back to finish it off.[/qb]



Finish university first.  It is harder to motivate yourself to go back to the life of a student once you have started making money.  I Know too many people who planned to take a year or two off from university, and then never did go back.

As for your questions about Engineers take a look at this Field Engineer Info.


----------



## Roko

yeah, I‘ve decided to finish my degree first, and to join the reserves whilst in uni.. oh, and I‘ve decided I‘m probably gonna just stick with infantry if I‘ll be in the reserves... If I go reg force after uni, I may switch to armour or sapper then (unless I really like infantry)


----------



## Yard Ape

Roko, have you read Infantry vs Engineers?

  Yard Ape


----------



## cagomez

Was just curious on the role Engineers play in combat situations. I was checking things out and I already understand that the primary role is to assist the army in living and fighting (transport, fixed defense, mines, bridges etc) and to deny the same to the enemy but also noticed that their secondary role was to fight as infantry as required. Historically, how often have engineers been called to front-line combat and how much infantry training do they receive today. I know that their job can take them to front line areas but I really mean fighting to take and hold ground/ patrolling etc offensively as aposed to defense. I realize in todays operations Engineers would be indisepensible in helping to restore war-torn cities and communities but would they be effective war fighters as well ? Reason I‘m asking is that although I have been a Reserve Infantryman for several years I am also taking civil engineering in university (if thats even close to the level of training that is required) I am educated to build things but I rather blow them up so I guess I have both in my blood.

Just to make them perfectly clear I am in no way downplaying any service branch of the CF. I respect anybody willing to serve their country in any shape way or form.


----------



## Yard Ape

Have you read through  this earlier post about Engineers ?


----------



## Spr Earl

> Originally posted by Fus:
> [qb]Was just curious on the role Engineers play in combat situations. I was checking things out and I already understand that the primary role is to assist the army in living and fighting (transport, fixed defense, mines, bridges etc) and to deny the same to the enemy but also noticed that their secondary role was to fight as infantry as required. Historically, how often have engineers been called to front-line combat and how much infantry training do they receive today. I know that their job can take them to front line areas but I really mean fighting to take and hold ground/ patrolling etc offensively as aposed to defense. I realize in todays operations Engineers would be indisepensible in helping to restore war-torn cities and communities but would they be effective war fighters as well ? Reason I‘m asking is that although I have been a Reserve Infantryman for several years I am also taking civil engineering in university (if thats even close to the level of training that is required) I am educated to build things but I rather blow them up so I guess I have both in my blood.
> 
> Just to make them perfectly clear I am in no way downplaying any service branch of the CF. I respect anybody willing to serve their country in any shape way or form.[/qb]


Now the Lord of the Realm has glorified the Charge of the Light Brigade,
And the thin red line of the Infantry, when will their glory fade?
There are robust rhymes on the British Tar and classics on Musketeers,
But I shall sing, till your eardrums ring, of the Muddy Old Engineers.
Now it‘s all very fair to fly through the air, or humour a heavy gun,
Or ride in tanks through the broken ranks of the crushed and shattered Hun.
And its nice to think when the U-Boats sink of the glory that outlives the years,
But whoever heard an haunting word for the Muddy Old Engineers?
Now you musn‘t feel, when you read this spiel, that the sapper is a jealous knave,
That he joined the ranks for a vote of thanks in search of a hero‘s grave
No your mechanised cavalrys‘ quite alright and your Tommy has drained few peers,
But where in ****  would the lot of them be, if it weren‘t for the Engineers,
Oh they look like tramps but they build your camps and sometimes lead the advance,
And they sweat red blood to bridge the flood to give you a fighting chance
Who stays behind when its getting hot, to blow up the roads in the rear?
Just tell your wife she owes your life to some Muddy Old Engineer,
Some dusty, crusty, croaking, joking Muddy Old Engineer.
No fancy crest is pinned to their chest, if you read what their cap badge says,
Why ‘Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense‘ is a queersome sort of praise,
But their modest claim to immortal fame has probably reached your ears,
The first to arrive, the last to leave, the Muddy Old Engineers,
The sweating, go getting, uproarious, glorious Muddy Old Engineers.

 Say‘s it all.


----------



## McG

> Originally posted by Fus:
> [qb]  . . . I already understand that the primary role is to assist the army in living and fighting (transport, fixed defense, mines, bridges etc) and to deny the same to the enemy . . . [/qb]


Add demolitions and construction to your bracketed list; and "move" to the unbraketed list.



> Originally posted by Fus:
> [qb] Historically, how often have engineers been called to front-line combat . . . [/qb]


There are several examples of this through out history.  One frequently reffered to is the minners of the first World War.  Enginners would attempt to tunnell under enemy trenches and collapse them with explosives.  Both sides did this and both side conducted counter minning, where Engineers would dig toward the sound of enemy tunnelers.  Frequently this resulted in opposing Engineers engaging in hand-to-hand (or shovel-to shovel) combat under ground.



> Originally posted by Fus:
> [qb] I know that their job can take them to front line areas but I really mean fighting to take and hold ground/ patrolling etc offensively as aposed to defense. [/qb]


The secondary role used to be to fight as Infantry in the defence.  The "in the defence" has been dropped and the Engineers will fight as Infantry when ordered, in any phase of war.  An Enginner Troop is a standard component of any square combat team, and I have heard more than a few Tactics Instructors recomend to task the Engineers as reserve and throw them in when there is not enough Infantry.  (As an Engineer I would suggest this is potentialy squandering an important reasource.)



> Originally posted by Fus:
> [qb] . .. I have been a Reserve Infantryman for several years, I am also taking civil engineering in university (if thats even close to the level of training that is required)   [/qb]


You have the educational requirments to be an Engineer Officer.



> Originally posted by Fus:
> [qb] Just to make them perfectly clear I am in no way downplaying any service branch of the CF. I respect anybody willing to serve their country in any shape way or form.[/qb]


You are aware that Engineers are a Combat Arm, right?


----------



## cagomez

Thanks for the reply, thats a pretty catchy tune. I was aware that the engineers were a combat arm, I just wasn‘t a bit more detail on the matter. How different is the reserve training compared to the regs. I know for the other combat arms reserve training is now where near is good as the regs but  is it any different for engineers, do they get to practice using the basic heavy equippment regularly ?


----------



## McG

Fus,
Are you still considering joining the Engineers?  Would this be Reg Force or PRes?  Officer or NCM?  I am only asking for one reason.  If you are considering joining the Reg Force as an Engineer Officer, then I strongly caution you about taking advantage of the Education Reimbursment.  If you do, you will not be elligable for the recruiting allowance of $40 000.  However, you may only claim the education reimbursment up to one year after you are first allowed to claim.  It does not give you a very large window to make up your mind, but that is the way things are at the moment.  

. . . and there is one further ‘if.‘  There is no certainty as to how long the recruiting allowance will be available.


----------



## Art Johnson

All sounds very interesting BUT, in WW I there were Tunneling Companies comprised of Infantry men who did the digging under the direction of the Engineers. Demolitions were often carried out by the Infantry Pioneer platoons. In Korea the Brigadier wanted an OP dug on our hill, we were told the engineers were coming up to do it. Right!. Two engineers arrived and we the infantry dug it out under their direction. 
In another instance a Engineer arived on our hill with a device for sweeping mines. The intent was to sweep an area further behind the crest of the hill, we had been taking too many casualties in this area. We came under attack that night and I went down to call out the men for "stand to" and this young Engineer told me he didn‘t have to go he was in the Engineers. I said fine you know you are going to be back here all by yourself. That produced the desired effect.


----------



## casing

I can‘t understand why I constantly see people ignoring the virtues of the artillery. There are many postings and other questions/statements that indicate something along the lines of "my three choices were INF, LCIS, Traffic" (not important what the second two were, just that they were not artillery or even armour).

My question here is:  If you (generally speaking) are so high on getting into the infantry but aren‘t sure if you will get in, why don‘t you put down artillery as your second or third choice?  Is it because there is a lack of knowledge of what the artillery is all about?  Or is there some kind of bad mystique about it?

I was in the artillery reserve for three years and i can tell you that we got to do pretty much everything that the infanteers got to do. Plus, we got to the fire the big guns!  (Which is pretty **** cool, I gotta say!)

Was just wondering this for a few days now, so I thought I might actually put it out there and try to find out the real reason.


----------



## waterat

I think perhaps you are right, there is probably a general (but mistaken ?) image that the Artillery troops spend all their time hanging in the back somewhere, polishing the gun / calculating azimuths etc, with little or no actual ‘action‘ in the popular sense.


----------



## KevinB

Casing,

Dont kid yourself what the Arty do playing local defence etc. is nothing like what the Infantry do.

I‘ll give you a hint we get all sorts of rebagdes to the PPCLI from the Arty.  You never hear them going the other way.

I was a reserve artilleryman and I went reg Inf...


----------



## casing

From KevinB: "Dont kid yourself what the Arty do playing local defence etc. is nothing like what the Infantry do."
-----------------

I am not, as you say, kidding myself. My statements are from personal experience. However, since my limited experience is just that, I have approached a career Artillery serviceman for his comments.  

Sgt. Slack, currently employed at CFRC Calgary, has something around 18 years with the reg force Artillery.  He says that "we seem to do far more Infantry type work then most realize, so much so that JLC/JNCO 2001 an all infantry course was instructed by mostly Arty personnel. Much to even my surprise most Artillery soldiers seem to do more section attacks in the run of a year then Infantry soldiers! Light Batteries eg "C" Bty man the mortars and are deployed more in an Infantry role then Artillery.  All four of my deployments were as an Infantry soldier".

So, as you can see there is plenty of opportunity for this type of work and people investigating a career in the CF should not limit their choices to just Infantry, if that is the type of career they want.

Please elaborate on your statement so that potential recruits visiting this forum approach a possible CF career with an educated mind on what their options are.


----------



## Jarnhamar

Visiting recruits just need to know that they should go Infantry opposed to Artillery heh


----------



## gate_guard

Casing,
I‘m sure the Arty folk do a lot more "infantry type" work than most people realize. But, how do you justify the statement that the Artillery does all the same things that the infantry do and get the fire the "big guns" as well? If your statement is true, then your regiment should think about planning their exercises and training programs better. Artillery is not infantry, and vice versa. There is some overlap with roles and justifiably so. All army personnel should have some knowledge of infantry skills. And granted, with the stress on personnel overseas, often Arty (and other combat arms) are seen doing gate shifts and patrols. But I don‘t think this justifies training an Arty soldier in section attacks and fighting patrols. If you‘re trying to recruit potential infanteers by saying that Arty isn‘t all just howitzers and driving, fine. But don‘t question the fact that infantry soldiers are specialists at their trade just like any other. I don‘t think you are purposefully doing so, but you seem to suggest that anyone can be an infanteer. If someone wants to specialize in infantry tactics, they go infantry. If they want to specialize in artillery, they go arty. Plain and simple. If your trade really is interesting, you shouldn‘t need to pander to those considering infantry or any other trade. Your combat arms role should sell itself.

PS And for the record, an acquaintance of mine recently completed his leadership course which was staffed by mostly Arty folk (including his platoon warrant). Let‘s just say he wasn‘t impressed.


----------



## casing

I think that my initial post has been misunderstood.  gate_guard put the key phrase out there when he said "there is some overlap with roles".  That is my point exactly. I am not claiming that artillery = infantry = artillery.

I am not suggesting that someone should choose artillery over infantry.  Or that artillery is better than infantry.  Or any of that other junk.  What I am saying is that I have seen posts where people express concern about the possibility of not getting into the infantry trade for some reason or other. In such instances, I wonder why they do not also put artillery-or even armour-as their other two choices.  They are both combat arms and from what I can tell the combat and physical aspects seem to be main selling points.  And in respect to my previous statement that arty people get to do the same things as infantry ("pretty much" does not equal "all")--well, I stand by that statement, but I did not intend that the two trades are completely transferable.  We did recce, did patrols, stood guard, dug ditches, got dirty, carried C7‘s, etc, etc.    

I am not on a recruiting binge for the artillery.  I haven‘t even been in since ‘94!  When I joined the artillery it was because they were the closest unit to my house.  At the time I knew absolutely nothing about the trade.  So, I was merely suggesting that perhaps more education about career options needs to be provided, and if that isn‘t the reason behind the trade choices, then I invite people to provide their reasons.   

The intention of this thread was for information, education.  Not for a flame war.  My apologies go out to anyone I may have offended.


----------



## LightBringer

im having a little bit of trouble deciding which career to pick on my application fourm.  I‘v done a fair bit of resarch into each, but the information i has able to get from the internet and the recrutment office was vauge at best. so I am woundering if any one might be able to give me any advice on which career i should choice.. infantry or combat engineer.
 Thanks for your time.

also can a combat engineer take the sniper course?


----------



## Morgs

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post, i didn't want to post in the armoured section and have no engineers read it and vice versa.
wondering if you guys and girls could answer a future soldier a question? I've just applied for either 011 or 043 (reg) and am still torn between the two trades :crybaby: one day i wanna go for armoured and the next engineer. 
wondering if you could maybe just give me a little info on your daily routine (when not on ex or tour). 
and if you had any thoughts on what i should go for? which one, through experience would you think more exciting (i know both have their + and - but still...l)
didn't know whether to post this as a thread? i know someone already has but it is reserves.
i know this is a pretty broad topic, but please help me out if you can. 
thanks


----------



## SprCForr

Go Engr, get to 1 CER then work your way into Armd Tp and run Bridgelayers or Badgers. Badda bing now you got both choices!


----------



## hiv

Armoured: The pilots of the battlefield.


----------



## aesop081

Engineers : FIRST IN, LAST OUT !


----------



## sigpig

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Engineers : FIRST IN, LAST OUT !



I thought it was Armoured Recce that had a copyright on the phrase "First in, last out."  At least it sure sounded like it at the regiment.

Go with engineers. More variety in employment and the chance of learning something that may be useful in the real world.


----------



## Infanteer

Funny, watching you guys is like watching two guys argue over a Lada and a Yugo.

Son, you should have put 031 on that application - everyone else is just support.


----------



## aesop081

Infanteer said:
			
		

> Funny, watching you guys is like watching two guys argue over a Lada and a Yugo.
> 
> Son, you should have put 031 on that application - everyone else is just support.



I disagree infanteer but....well said anyways !!

cheers


----------



## D-n-A

Have your tried looking at the Army Recruiting Website? Gives out all the info about that stuff(what they do, their courses, etc)


http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/army/jobs_e.aspx


Armour


> What They Do
> 
> Each Armoured Soldier belongs to one of the Armoured regiments of the Canadian Army, and serves as a member of the crew of an armoured fighting vehicle (AFV). His or her primary duties are to operate and maintain the AFV, its weapon systems (ballistic computers, laser range-finders and thermal sights as well as guns) and its communication equipment (sophisticated radars andradios). Armoured Soldiers are trained to fight as members of theCombat Arms team, which also includes the Infantry, the Artillery and the Combat Engineers. Armoured Soldiers begin their career with one of two types of AFV: the tank or the reconnaissance (recce) vehicle.




Infantry


> What They Do
> 
> Each Infantry Soldier belongs to one of the Infantry regiments of the Canadian Army, some of which bear battle honours more than a century old. As the Army's primary war-fighters and the core of the Combat Arms team, Infantry Soldiers are responsible for closing with and destroying the enemy. Supported by the Artillery, regiments of Armour and the Combat Engineers, Infantry Soldiers are capable of operating anywhere in the world in any environment â â€ Arctic tundra, mountains, jungle or desert â â€ and in any combination of arms, including airmobile and amphibious operations.




Combat Engineer



> What They Do
> Combat Engineers are members of the Military Engineer branch of can live, move and fight on the battlefield, and deny the same abilities to enemy troops. They also perform duties in aid of the civil power and civil authority; participate in peace-support operations; perform construction and maintenance tasks in support of the CF and other government organizations; drive and operate vehicles and equipment in support of Engineer Operations; and maintain field installations and facilities.


----------



## SHARP WO

Research is the key, all cbt arms trades have similiar qualities and many differences. Have a look at a few reserve websites also, they can give you some examples of what they do.

SHARP WO


----------



## Ty

recceguy said:
			
		

> Sorry, I don't see it that way. I don't know him and his general comments about the whole Armoured Corps being"scorned" idiots was offensive and uncalled for. If he was joking, so be it, he should learn internet protocol and identify his comments as such. Kinda like the little winking icon I used? Until such time I'll stand by my comments, and too bad about your buddy. Besides he seems like a big boy and was able to laugh off my comments, he doesn't seem like the type that needs your protection.



Just to jump in here- giong through the recruiting process (i.e. sitting around and waiting and waiting), I can tell you that the Corps you choose is an intensely personal decision.  Each have very strong selling points, some similar opportunities, as well as unique aspects.  Truth is, you'll never fully realize what they do until you do it- so get some info from the units, make a decision, and ruck on!

BTW, I'm an engineer by trade and education, and decided to go Armour.  

Cheers!


----------



## Meridian

"BTW, I'm an engineer by trade and education, and decided to go Armour.  "

Excellent Choice  8)


----------



## 2FERSapper

Be certin you know what your getting into. I just returned from Coral Jump in B.C. the longest running ex in the CF(Mo or Reg). Its a brigde camp for engineers.all you do is lift bridge parts into place for 5 days.(as a side note 8 bay double story MBG put up, jacked down and decked in 130mins with 26ppl) It gets tiring. Combat Engineers do hard jobs that are all to often overlooked by other trades b/c the jobs get bypassed alot. Oh well a minefield will slow down the ex so were DSing it, no no no that boobytrap will slow down our attack it doesnt matter if it goes off etc etc etc. I heard many of these as i am sure all engineers have many times before while working with the infantry in particular(not to pick at you guys but we dont useally roll with the armoured in MO ex's and well we never really see the arty). Being a engineer not only requires hard work but also putting up with the fact that alot of the time your overlooked so the infantry can get their training while you and your section are left in company HQ and after the attack in the AAR you find out that 4 BT's were hit and its ok b/c the attack was a success and those 4 BT's really didnt kill any of the infantry. So ya engineers= hard work but it aso equals even harder tasks. Not going nuts when excersises that are planed for 5 or 6 months and then its completely obvious that the engineer role was thrown in at the last min(once again talking from the Mo perspective and mind you these r on the Birgade run ex's not unit ex's) ok my rant is done


----------



## J.F.

Roko, can you condense the drive and enthusiasm that you have into a pill?
Cheers, JF


----------



## aesop081

2FERSapper said:
			
		

> as a side note 8 bay double story MBG put up, jacked down and decked in 130mins with 26ppl)



If this was meant to be impressive then....

My QL3 ( 9302) in Chilliwack, 8-bay DS MGB, jacked down , ramped and decked.....90 mins, 24 people......


----------



## Argyll

Don't quote me but wasn't the guys that got caught in the Medak Pocket something like 50-60% reservists from across Canada?


----------



## AFireinside13

Joining reserves this summer...

Just wondering which to choose; Infantry or Armoured Soldier?
Any input would be great


----------



## George Wallace

Have a look through some of the forums here and see.  We have covered everything that you have asked in threads here already.


----------



## patrick666

It's really your own decision... nobody here can decide for you but can assist in helping you find the right choice. As George said, review the forums of the trades interest you. A lot of people will say Infantry, and a lot will say Armoured. Choose the option that suits you best and go from there.

Cheers and good luck


----------



## Zack

hey guys,

I'm just looking for some people that have only been in either one of these trades and just wondering ur likes and dislikes of ur trade. (of infanteer or combat engineer(EOD i think its called right?)

thanks


Zack


----------



## Jimmy C

I think EOD means explosive ordnance dispoal which is one of the engineers tasks. Also if you do a little bit of searching you'll find that there are threads on camparing the combat arms.


----------



## geo

EOD is only one little facet of a Combat Engineer's life.
While some might say that I am prejudiced.... The Sapper's life's for me!

Chimo!


----------



## McG

Zack said:
			
		

> hey guys,Zack


Have a read of this for Cbt Engr info: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22088.0.html


----------



## ready to go

I have a question regarding, specifically, Op Archer and the specialized training. Taking into consideration the fact that this is an urban environment and the enemy is embedded into the environment, how does this change the dynamics of the roles and the training for the combat arms teams?
Another question I have is how "American" are we in this respect? Are we adopting the American way?


----------



## geo

Uhhhh - and what way is that?
what is "the american way"?


----------



## ready to go

By stating "the American way", I am referring to tactical strageties, equipment and the general ethos and directive of our military's command as it relates to Operation Archer. Again, taking into account the dynamics of our new enemy and the densely populated, urbanized environment. What steps is our military taking to effectively prepare our soldiers for this circumstance? Are we learning from the mistakes of our U.S. counterparts as well as utilizing and incorporating their successful tactical measures into our own, unique military machine. 

My questions are geared primarily towards the training, tactical and operational aspects of command for our combat arms team in the field.

I hope this clarifies your concern.


----------



## CanadianGrunt

Recce41 said:
			
		

> Sorry i hurt feelings, but after having to hearing people complain from the res how come i have to do this, and that and why so long. i had it you train to win and be equals so train the same. and which tours were 25%. Most is 15%. Ive been around for 7 so i like to know.



All Bull**** aside I'd have to agree SOME reservists tend to be like that but others are cool in my books. Doesnt help they get thier gun/CADPATs before the reg force though.


----------



## chernoff

I have recently submited my app for cf reserve. I have always wanted to be infentry but now am thinking of art because there is a unit here in lethbridge a.b

my question is this. If i choos to go infentry i have to go to calgary am i able to do this, and is it a good idea.

also do reserves take there kit home when not on base?? 
thank you gentlemen


----------



## paracowboy

chernoff, 
nobody has ever needed this more:
MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Infantry FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/1897/post-77869.html#msg77869

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977

Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure:
http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Army.ca wiki pages  
 - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.

Two words, dude: spell check


----------



## Samsquanch

I recently put in my application for the reserves... My primary interest was/is infantry. I want to blow stuff up & shoot as many guns as possible I was told to put down a second and third choice on the application. My vision may not be v3 or better. I've done a bunch of research about all trades. I would like to know if engineers or artillery gets to blow up more stuff. I guessing I'll find out more info as the application process progresses. Just being a keener.
Cheers!


----------



## silentbutdeadly

Sam,

Look at Para's post, you could use it also! Here end the lesson


----------



## Teflon

Sam;

Continue to be a Keener and read the FAQs!


----------



## Shamrock

Balloon Techs get to blow a lot of stuff up, too.


----------



## geo

Hmmm.... Bureaucrats get to blow a lot of hot air


----------



## Samsquanch

Artillery seems interesting after reading countless posts. Anyone in a artillery postion with the reserves? I've got a few dozen questions!
Is there much work overseas for an arty guy? Artillery seems very similar in some respects to infantry.... Am I mistaken? Do they issue the amazing sarcasm/humor at BMQ/SQ?  ;D


----------



## geo

Samsquanch said:
			
		

> Artillery seems interesting after reading countless posts. Anyone in a artillery postion with the reserves? I've got a few dozen questions!
> Is there much work overseas for an arty guy? Artillery seems very similar in some respects to infantry.... Am I mistaken? Do they issue the amazing sarcasm/humor at BMQ/SQ?  ;D


Arty like infantry?... No.  most gunners apply their trade from a couple of Kms behind the Forward edge of battle (with M777 155mm guns they can be even further back)... note that if the guns are suddenly at the pointy end of things... the infantry & co haven't been doing their job 

is there work overseas?... up until Afghanistan, we really didn't deploy the guns, there is little need for artillery in the peacekeeping role - while there is one in the peacemaking role....

Amaazing humour & sarcasm?.... naw - you must be talking about the humble sapper & the Corp of Engineers


----------



## rampage800

Sorry Geo but I'm gonna have to challenge you on this one, not that the Arty guys are like Inf but on a couple of other things there.
Yea you could argue the point about the guns being further back than the FEBA but I'm not so sure there is such a thing in the COE now is there ?Don't get me wrong, theres always going to be a main effort and places where they expect the bad guys to be concentrated but I think maybe the really only safe area (or safer area) is KAF.
As for work overseas before Archer, Apollo, etc once again there were Gunners deployed with just about(my caveat) every BG that went over anywhere. Whether deployed as a Mortar Pl or LO's even an Inf Coy a couple times I think, just cause you don't see a gun sitting there doesn't mean there's not gunners.
For our guys being like Inf like I said earlier not so much, but our FOO/FAC guys are right up there with the Coy doing there thing and usually after a bit of time working up there with the Inf and the Inf guys showing them some stuff I don't think they're a liability in any way and just about any young guy who wants to go to the OPs gets up there so.....
Anyhow just thought I'd chime in on that one.....


----------



## geo

Rampage......
I can gripe....... people have been leaving the Sappers out of Combat Arms for lord knows how long... and then, suddenly, they need us 

I left out the Peacekeeping missions cause, for the most part, those missions were somewhat lame and even the infantry didn't get to do very much infantry....

Yes the Mortars, the LOs and the FOO/FACs are all up there at the pointy end - as witnessed by the FOO who got it last summer.... Yes, the FEBA is somewhat theoretical in defenition and even the truckers & storemen are within harms reach BUT, for the most part, the Gunner's infantry training is a little thin.

Arty Ubique = All over the place
Engineer Ubique = Everywhere!

CHIMO!


----------



## Samsquanch

Answered my own question thanks anyways! Sounds like a great job!


----------



## geo

Sappers are chosen from individuals with the highest medical standards - I will hav you know!

Sappers do set up camps, dig holes & prepare fortifications .... but that's even before everyone else shows up.

With respect to having demolition charges & "blowing things up".... we do & you won't


----------



## Kanne

Is it a bad idea to try and go for the engineers if you have a somewhat crappy back?  Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Cheers


----------



## Kat Stevens

A dodgy back will never get any better as a Sapper, that's for sure... Not too bright, but we can lift heavy things.


----------



## geo

Heh...
One bridge panel too many Kat?


----------



## Petard

geo said:
			
		

> Rampage......
> I can gripe....... Yes, the FEBA is somewhat theoretical in defenition and even the truckers & storemen are within harms reach BUT, for the most part, the Gunner's infantry training is a little thin.
> 
> Arty Ubique = All over the place
> Engineer Ubique = Everywhere!
> 
> CHIMO!



OK sarcasm aside, what makes you say the Artillery infantry training is a little thin?


----------



## Teflon

> OK sarcasm aside, what makes you say the Artillery infantry training is a little thin?



Because they spend the vast majority of their time doing artillery training - Being Artillery an all I would think that it would be the smart thing to do.


----------



## sanhvn

I passed my cfat and did good on my intervew last week.  The recruiter said I can call in and change my job anytime I'd like to.  I have Combat Engineer as number one and Infantry as number 2.

I'd like to know if Combat Engineers would be doing a lot of work with bombs and mines.  I know that they work with them, but how much?  I'm not too much into mines and bombs, if yes, I'd rather go as an Infantry.


----------



## BernDawg

Go infantry.


----------



## footsoldier32

sanhvn said:
			
		

> I'd like to know if Combat Engineers would be doing a lot of work with bombs and mines.  I know that they work with them, but how much?  I'm not too much into mines and bombs, if yes, I'd rather go as an Infantry.



I am biased and would say that you should go Infantry as well.  But, I will be honest and open.  While Cbt Engr implies that you will be dealing with building things and blowing things up (ie. explosives and such) your secondary job as Cbt Engr is Infantry.  We both deal with bombs and mines and crazy stuff on deployment, you need to decide (if this is what is driving you) do you want to be the one who is general in control of the explosion (or dealing with it when it is found) or do you want to be the one who runs into it (or if you are lucky...avoids it)...ie the Infantry and IED's.  I know some great Infanteers and Engineers and both jobs are really good.  Engineers are very precise, Infanteers are the driving force of the Army.  We both work together, it is generally a much more demanding job in the way of technical expertise to become an Engr.

My advice is to research it and if possible get out and talk to real Cbt Engr's and Inf.  At the end of the day it is your decision and you are the one who has to live with it.  Don't pick one and go in thinking that you can change if you don't like it.  While this is a possibility, it is never an easy thing unless all of your ducks are in a row and the stars align in their precise path to allow it.  And, don't just talk to people on here...no offence to anyone...but you can never be 100% guaranteed on the info that you receive.  Get out to an Army base and take a look and talk to real soldiers.

Good luck


----------



## Sukintu

I'm having troubles between picking from engineers or infantry also. I have 2 friends who are in infantry, one officer, one ncm, and I'll be joining either Engineers or Infantry (noting else) in the winter. They try to convince me to go infantry, but I'm not sure which one.
Here's a video i found on the combat engineers, http://youtube.com/watch?v=ixT2kTk-F90, looks cool eh?  
I think I'll be joining the engineers,  but if anyone could try and convince me the other way, it would be greatly appreciated. =)


----------



## McG

We don't like to get into the business of promoting one branch over another (it's best that a person pick one that best fits themself).  However, perhaps you would like to enlighten us as to why you are leaning one way over the other.  We can at least fix any misconceptions which you may have.


. . . and you'd best start doing more investigating if a cool video is the principle factor in your choice.


----------



## footsoldier32

Sukintu, the "cool video" that you are situating your plans on is pretty cool stuff.  Just understand that pretty much all of that stuff (minus the explosive parts) the infantry does.  And, in fact the Cbt Engr's do the majority of that cool stuff in support of the Infantry.  Not to bash engineers...their the best guys to have supporting you, because they have some cool stuff that goes boom when you want it to.

What you need to decide is if you want to be the guys that take and hold the ground or the guys that help us take the ground and hold it.  We both dig dirt, fill sand bags, live in austere conditions when deployed, but when I, as a Inf Pl Comd didn't have a warm and fuzzy about something that might go boom, I sent in the Engineers and they did an outstanding job and I was able to keep moving forward to do mine.

Pro Patria and Chimo


----------



## GAP

> if anyone could try and convince me the other way, it would be greatly appreciated.



Why would we? We don't have to live with your choices, so other than pointing out they are both excellent trades, grow up and make your own decision.


----------



## geo

Hours of boredom punctuated by seconds of adrenaline pumping excitement.....

Plenty of sittin down and waiting to be done by all branches of the combat arms.
Armoured, Artillery, Engineers & the Infantry


----------



## RTaylor

I didn't care for being in the infantry reserves 8 years ago. Was in for 2 years and didn't much like it, seem to be too much make work (polishing/cleaning gear constantly, etc) and I didn't like some other things about it also (it all seemed pretty mundane for me).

I'm a guy that likes ot use his brain alot, do technical things and so forth and don't like sitting around doing bland boring things (computers/electronics/precision work isnt boring to me like it is some). Is Combat Engineer the right job? I've been merit listed for pretty well all the trades in the forces barring certain Gr12 credits (biology / chem) so as it comes crunch time Im trying to see if my decision is the right one, before I get into a possible trade I really don't enjoy.


----------



## geo

RT.... having doubts?
As per my post above, there will be some hurry up and wait in all four main combat arms trades.
Cleaning gear is all part of the game.  It's gotta be done every time the gear has been used.... part of the job.

Engineers are team players - we are thourough in looking at a problem & arriving at a decision on how best to address said problem... We're mothodical & Dont't (usually) go off half cocked.

In the end.... it's a personal choice that you & the Mrs will have to make....
Say.... aren't you supposed to be going down to the Recruiting centre with the Mrs?... Talk to them there.


----------



## RTaylor

Well, the trade decision is mine in the end, my wife will go along with whatever I choose.

I called the recruiting center and asked them if they had any combat engineers there, but they told me the closest they had was a armored officer. Not much help there. So I jumped online to talk to the recruiters on the online chat but that was a no go.

Just how close are hte Combat Engineers duties to the Infantry? From this thread they seem fairly close, except for some parts of the trade that differ (explosives, bridging, clearing). 

It's not the exercise I am worried about, it's mainly the fact I don't want to be bored most of the time.

Do you have any info on the SigOp Geo? Like what do they do in garisson?


----------



## Spr.Earl

RTaylor said:
			
		

> Well, the trade decision is mine in the end, my wife will go along with whatever I choose.
> 
> I called the recruiting center and asked them if they had any combat engineers there, but they told me the closest they had was a armored officer. Not much help there. So I jumped online to talk to the recruiters on the online chat but that was a no go.
> 
> Just how close are hte Combat Engineers duties to the Infantry? From this thread they seem fairly close, except for some parts of the trade that differ (explosives, bridging, clearing).
> 
> It's not the exercise I am worried about, it's mainly the fact I don't want to be bored most of the time.
> 
> Do you have any info on the SigOp Geo? Like what do they do in garisson?



RT,infantry is our second roll but our main roll in life is to support and clear the way for the Army, weather it be obstacle clearance as assault Sapper's or building road's,air field's etc. our trade is multi faceted.
It is trade were one uses ones brain it can be so dull but exciting at the same time as with every trade hope this helps.


----------



## Marshall

Hello, 

Im looking to become an Officer in combat arms..

I have been wondering about what an Artillery or Armour unit does when they are not doing their usual line of work when on tour. 
(Using Afghanistan as an example... )

I know infantry help with protection and reconstruction and civilian matters correct? I was wondering if Artillery or Armour would do the same type of community help.?

Its a part i am interested and just wondering if its more in the infantry's line of work (or maybe its another jobs work?)

note that i DO want to be Combat Arms.. And i am having a VERY hard time choosing hehe.

Thanks for the info.
-Marshall


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

We all just sit around and do terrible things to our dogs with a fork.

READ.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Holy crap Bruce!  Steve Martin just called from 1979, he wants his joke back.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> Holy crap Bruce!  Steve Martin just called from 1979, he wants his joke back.



Yup,...just listened to it on my Ipod, thought it fit just right.      And if not,..well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuusse me!!


----------



## 2fly

Well, since I used to be a ground pounder (Arty) I can speak from that side of the fence.  In the down time, they do much the same things as the INF, ARMD and ENGR's do.  In Arty the work on the guns, trucks, organizing stores, etc and do a fair anount of exercises.  When those things are not being done, from time to time there are in-house training sessions on such things as drivers courses, foo tech, etc.


----------



## geo

> ... know infantry help with protection and reconstruction and civilian matters correct



With all due respect to my infantry brothers & having served in the infantry before seeing the light....
but it's the engineers who provide the reconstruction - you might find that the Infantry contributes to some of the initial destruction which the engineers end up having to fix


----------



## GnyHwy

GO ARTY

Blowin' crap up is only a radio transmission away!


----------



## alphasect2

I would highly advise against throwing some reg force time into your University time. You will be out for 3+ years before you get back to University. If I were you, I'd finish school while being in the reserves and then component transfer into the reg force. Also if you do a tour while being a reservist, you will keep your rank so you will be ahead of the game when you switch.


----------



## Eric182

I was hoping, if someone had some spare time, if they could list some pros and cons of their 
experience in the *Armoured *leg of Combat Arms? I have been a long time reader of this forum
and finally made an account to ask questions that I haven't come across using the search.
Any input, positive or negative, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Eric182

I was hoping, if someone had some spare time, if they could list some pros and cons of their 
experience in the *Infantry*? I have been a long time reader of this forum and finally made an 
account to ask questions that I haven't come across using the search. Any input, positive or 
negative, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Eric182

I was hoping, if someone had some spare time, if they could list some pros and cons of their 
experience in the *Artillery *leg of Combat Arms? I have been a long time reader of this forum
and finally made an account to ask questions that I haven't come across using the search.
Any input, positive or negative, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Franko

Eric 182,




			
				Eric182 said:
			
		

> I was hoping, if someone had some spare time, if they could list some pros and cons of their
> experience in the *Artillery *leg of Combat Arms? I have been a long time reader of this forum
> and finally made an account to ask questions that I haven't come across using the search.
> Any input, positive or negative, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.





			
				Eric182 said:
			
		

> I was hoping, if someone had some spare time, if they could list some pros and cons of their
> experience in the *Infantry*? I have been a long time reader of this forum and finally made an
> account to ask questions that I haven't come across using the search. Any input, positive or
> negative, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.





			
				Eric182 said:
			
		

> I was hoping, if someone had some spare time, if they could list some pros and cons of their
> experience in the *Armoured *leg of Combat Arms? I have been a long time reader of this forum
> and finally made an account to ask questions that I haven't come across using the search.
> Any input, positive or negative, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.





Apparently you are *not *a long time reader of this site as you'd know not to spam the boards with the same post. You agreed to this when you signed up.

One more stunt like this and you're gone.

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------



## Tuna

Which of the combat arms is the most popular among new NCMs? New officers? which one should be the most popular? which has the highest retention rate? and which is in demand most often?


----------



## GAP

Who cares....more reading less posting....we really don't need the energizer bunny running around with nooby questions that make no sense.


----------



## Tuna

GAP said:
			
		

> Who cares....more reading less posting....we really don't need the energizer bunny running around with nooby questions that make no sense.



That was it's own topic but it was tacked onto this post


----------



## PMedMoe

Tuna said:
			
		

> That was it's own topic but it was tacked onto this post



As it should be.  IMHO,  you should try the search function or just browse thread titles before starting new threads.


----------



## Patrick.R

The story: I'm currently processing to be a reservist. I recently wrote my CFAT here in Edmonton and did just fine. The recruiter told me that my first choice, infantry, would be closed for at least a few months and that only my second choice, armoured, was available. I asked to continue processing and that if I changed my mind, I'd let her know. The two units are South Alberta Light Horse aka SALH (Armour) and the Loyal Eddies (Infantry). 

The question: I've done a lot of research and both sound amazing, but I want to be sure because I plan on doing this for a while. Does anyone have any experience with either unit? Is there a night that I can go in and check each out? In the end I'll be able to work with anyone, but if one unit is a group of guys that I'd get along great with and the other is a group that's very different from me, I'd like to know.


----------



## Eowyn

Both units parade on Wedsnesday night at Jefferson Armouries (besides NAIT).


----------



## MikeL

Best thing to do is go to them on a parade night,  talk to them, ask questions, etc  Both are good units, and you won't be dissapointed with either,  just make sure you pick the one unit/trade you want to do.  Armour Recce(aka Motorized Recce/G-Wagons) or Infantry.


Also, the unit is not 4PPCLI(LER),  it is Loyal Edmonton Regiment sometimes the (4PPCLI) is added as they are affiliated with the Regiment, but they are seperate Regiments with their own capbadge, history, etc.  


Personal/Pet peeve point If you do join the LER,  don't be like some of the soldiers there who wonder around the mall across the street before the training night starts in uniform.  And you don't need to wear a gucci DZ Smock to patrol the mall with or goto a training night.. issue rain jacket works great for garrison wear.  Keep the non issue stuff for the field/training.


----------



## Patrick.R

Thanks for the info. I'm leaning more towards Armour at the moment. One quick question: Will I have the same oppurtunities to get specialty training (Mountain Warfare, Jump Wings, etc.) as an infantry soldier? Or is that type of stuff basically off limits to reservists?

I'll remember to address the LER properly from now on. Thanks for the correction. I'll also make sure to remember to save my uniform for when I'm on duty. However, I must admit that, after a quick google search, that DZ Smock looks awesome lol ;D

Thanks again for your help.


----------



## MikeL

For courses like Basic Para, don't get your hopes up and expect it.  There is limited number of positions on the course that will be givin to the Brigades and you will be competing against others.  You could get on that course, but you may not.  With a lot of the courses that are run out of area, it really comes down to right place, right time, being in good standing with the unit, and being fit.  Also, you don't need to be Infantry to get this course,  it is open to all trades.

Basic Mountain Ops,  if your unit runs it,  very good chance you can get on the course.  Otherwise you will have to wait if another unit in the area is running it and offers positions to the unit.

For right now,  just focus on the short term, ie getting into the Reserves, then doing BMQ and DP1, everything after that is far away for you at this point.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> Basic Mountain Ops,  if your unit runs it,  very good chance you can get on the course.  Otherwise you will have to wait if another unit in the area is running it and offers positions to the unit.



IIRC this is run out of CFLAWC in Trenton.....


----------



## MikeL

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> IIRC this is run out of CFLAWC in Trenton.....



Advanced Mountain Ops is CFLAWC course, BMO is listed on the CFLAWC website but I haven't heard/seen  anyone sent on it as the battalions(PPCLI at least) run their own course, as well as some reserve units.

http://www.army.gc.ca/iaol/143000440001170/143000440001188/index-Eng.html


----------



## Patrick.R

-Skeletor- said:
			
		

> For courses like Basic Para, don't get your hopes up and expect it.  There is limited number of positions on the course that will be givin to the Brigades and you will be competing against others.  You could get on that course, but you may not.  With a lot of the courses that are run out of area, it really comes down to right place, right time, being in good standing with the unit, and being fit.  Also, you don't need to be Infantry to get this course,  it is open to all trades.
> 
> Basic Mountain Ops,  if your unit runs it,  very good chance you can get on the course.  Otherwise you will have to wait if another unit in the area is running it and offers positions to the unit.
> 
> For right now,  just focus on the short term, ie getting into the Reserves, then doing BMQ and DP1, everything after that is far away for you at this point.



Thanks for the info. "Focus on the short term" seems like solid advice right now. However, for good measure.... from this LINK you provided, it looks like 10/12 of the BMO candidates were Infantry Reservists and then Arty and Armour Reservists each had one candidate on the course. That's not bad at all.

This forum has already helped me so much (espeicially Skeletor), but I have yet another question. I've been browsing/lurking everywhere on the forums the past few days and I came across this thread regarding Armoured Reservists and problems with deploying. Will I have greater oppurtunity for deployments if I wait for infantry to open up? Am I once again getting ahead of myself?


----------



## MikeL

That thread is 6 years old,  things changed quite a bit from then.    From what I saw during my tour in Afghanistan,  and what I heard from some friends who are Armour Recce Reservists..

Majority of Armour Recce Reservists were placed in the NSE Force Protection Platoons to provide security on Combat Logistics Patrols(Convoys).

Some also worked in positions like CIMIC/PRT, during 1-08 2x Armour Recce Reservists were put in the BG Signals Platoon as Bison Drivers.  During tour one went to do Paving Project Security at Ma'Shum Ghar and the other did stay with Sigs as a TCCC/RRB Member.  If wondering, he spent a considerable amount of time away from KAF going on out RRB tasks(FOB and COP).   I know one dude who was a LAVIII Driver(OC Driver?) for the LdSH Sqn that was over during TF 3-07, and another Reservist who was working with B Ech(?) as a ARV Driver during 1-08.  As well,  I know of another Armour Recce Reservist(SALH I believe) who was a Leopard driver during 1-08.  There was another SALH(?) Soldier who was on 1-08, and I'm pretty sure he was also a Leopard crewman

As for how things are going now,  you missed out on Afghanistan.  I'm not sure how many Armour Recce Reservists are overseas now for Op Attention.   As for how things will work on any possible/future Operations,  just have to wait and see.


----------



## sharp_85

I'm slightly biased but I would recommend joining The Eddies, great unit with a lot of solid, committed members. Definitely show up on Wednesday night you can pick brains of guys from both units and get to see some training possibly (could be really informative, or just a cleaning/organizational night).

Also on a side note towards courses/training. We (LER) are managing to run more and more courses in house, we've got a decent amount of guys qualified as instructors for several courses.


----------



## Patrick.R

sharp_85 said:
			
		

> I'm slightly biased but I would recommend joining The Eddies, great unit with a lot of solid, committed members. Definitely show up on Wednesday night you can pick brains of guys from both units and get to see some training possibly (could be really informative, or just a cleaning/organizational night).
> 
> Also on a side note towards courses/training. We (LER) are managing to run more and more courses in house, we've got a decent amount of guys qualified as instructors for several courses.



Thanks for the heads up. I'm hoping to go in next Wednesday, as I just finished my exams. At the moment, the LER is my first choice.
Unfortunately, I was told that the LER wasn't accepting new applicants, and I want to be in as soon as possible.
Maybe talking to people will convince me that the infantry is worth the wait, however.

Would you know approximately what time is the best time to come in?


----------



## sharp_85

Well then I might see you there! I've been away for a while for work but should be back this Wednesday. We start at 1900 but it should be a CO's parade which means inspection and some updates so if you're there by about 1930 - 2000 everyone should be getting on with the business for the night and the recruiting staff should be in their office. Those will be the best people to talk to about whether we are accepting new applicants or not.

I'm not sure who the recruiting staff are anymore, but the clerks at the office as you come in will be able to help you. Or at the least find someone who can! Good luck.


----------



## KiloActual

Infantry is a glorious privilege  :subbies:


----------



## Fishbone Jones

Yeah, well I have a shirt that says:

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger;

Except the Royal Canadian Armour Corp,
They will kill you and then sing songs about it.



Speed and violence, all the way!


----------



## Denty618

I've been considering Armoured for quite some time now, but my biggest issue is relying on a giant machine instead of my own mind and body. Also, ive been trying to find a diffinitive answer on which rifle crewman carry, if any. Some say C8s, which make sense being shorter than the C7. I also am a fairly restless guy, always bouncing my leg and looking around. I love the idea of being Infantry, hiking and clearing buildings. But Im not looking forward too being around a bunch of meathead guys whose biggest issue is how tough they are because I got enough of that playing rugby. I was honours all through highschool, my dad doesnt want me to be in the army but he would prefer if I became a signal opperator or work in an intelligence based field. Are my assumptions about both trades wrong or is there a better trade for me to go into? Thankyou. 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## mariomike

Denty618 said:
			
		

> I've been considering Armoured for quite some time now, but my biggest issue is relying on a giant machine instead of my own mind and body. Also, ive been trying to find a diffinitive answer on which rifle crewman carry, if any. Some say C8s, which make sense being shorter than the C7. I also am a fairly restless guy, always bouncing my leg and looking around. I love the idea of being Infantry, hiking and clearing buildings. But Im not looking forward too being around a bunch of meathead guys whose biggest issue is how tough they are because I got enough of that playing rugby. I was honours all through highschool, my dad doesnt want me to be in the army but he would prefer if I became a signal opperator or work in an intelligence based field. Are my assumptions about both trades wrong or is there a better trade for me to go into? Thankyou.



See also,

OP: Denty618 


			
				Denty618 said:
			
		

> I've been considering Armoured for quite some time now, but my biggest issue is relying on a giant machine instead of my own mind and body. Also, ive been trying to find a definitive answer on which rifle crewman carry, if any. Most say C8s, which make sense being shorter than the C7. I also am a fairly restless guy, always bouncing my leg and looking around. I love the idea of being Infantry, hiking and clearing buildings. But Im not looking forward too being around a bunch of meathead guys whose biggest issue is how tough they are because I got enough of that playing rugby. I was honours all through highschool, my dad doesnt want me to be in the army but he would prefer if I became a signal opperator or work in an intelligence based field. Are my assumptions about both trades wrong or is there a better trade for me to go into? Thankyou.


----------



## Kat Stevens

Denty618 said:
			
		

> I've been considering Armoured for quite some time now, but my biggest issue is relying on a giant machine instead of my own mind and body. Also, ive been trying to find a diffinitive answer on which rifle crewman carry, if any. Some say C8s, which make sense being shorter than the C7. I also am a fairly restless guy, always bouncing my leg and looking around. I love the idea of being Infantry, hiking and clearing buildings. But Im not looking forward too being around a bunch of meathead guys whose biggest issue is how tough they are because I got enough of that playing rugby. I was honours all through highschool, my dad doesnt want me to be in the army but he would prefer if I became a signal opperator or work in an intelligence based field. Are my assumptions about both trades wrong or is there a better trade for me to go into? Thankyou.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk



That's a pretty high opinion you've got of yourself there, along with a pretty low one of people you think you may want to serve with. Maybe you need to educate yourself a little before you start spouting off about "meatheads" and whatever else.


----------



## Denty618

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> That's a pretty high opinion you've got of yourself there, along with a pretty low one of people you think you may want to serve with. Maybe you need to educate yourself a little before you start spouting off about "meatheads" and whatever else.


I can see how that would come across arrogant. I meant to ask if that is the kind of guys that are in infantry as Ive heard. I didnt mean to accuse all Infantry men as being meatheads. It was an error on my part, thankyou for pointing it out. 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------

