# Para-Riggers



## Andyboy (3 Jan 2002)

Hello all,

I have a question regarding our fine friends the Riggers. What is the scoop on their wings? I saw a guy at my levee wearing "Riggers" wings on his tunic above the left pocket as well as miniature Canadian wings on his pocket. Is this proper? I‘m not looking to burn this guy it‘s just that I havn‘t seen it before. I guess I don‘t spend enough (meaning any) time around CPC.

Thanks.


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## Recce41 (3 Jan 2002)

Well
  Canada does not have wings for riggers.. They had to be American. So If he was wearing them, he may be lying. If his wings were red also. i have basic Airal Delivery and have not seen any Riggers wings.
   Sgt J.  CD, CDS com


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## spacemarine (3 Jan 2002)

Recce41, I know that you are very experienced and know alot about paratrooping but I‘m pretty damned sure that there ARE canadian riggers wings. All of the riggers at the CFPMD wear them, I did my jump course recently and I saw them. They have the wavy wings and below say something like RIGGER / ARMEREUR. I don‘t believe it would be proper to wear both wings though, seeing as all Riggers jump on a regular basis.


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## Recce41 (3 Jan 2002)

if your talking about the wings with, the old type of wings yes ? I‘ve never ever saw one of the riggers wear them on their DEUs. I‘ve seen them on the old smock. Most of the riggers here in Petawawa wear just the jump wings. Thanks if their wearing them on their DEUs. You always  something new.
 Sgt J. CD, CDS com. Bold and Swift, Airborne.


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## Recce41 (3 Jan 2002)

Ps
 They are new to DEUs, I phoned a rigger friend of mine. Sorry about it, they were issued earlier in the yr. for their DEUs. that is why some only wear their juump wings, and yes you do wear both.
  Sgt J.    CD, CDS com


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## Andyboy (4 Jan 2002)

Thanks for the poop guys. I didn‘t think this guy would just make something up but I had never seen them before and was curious. My next question is should he be wearing them if he is no longer employed as a Rigger or is in strictly a "while serving" deal.

Thanks.


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## Jungle (5 Jan 2002)

The "RIGGER / ARRIMEUR" qualification badge was issued about 3 years ago to all riggers. It is issued in DEU and combat styles, both made of cloth. All riggers wear them even after leaving the rigger community. Since the RIGGER wings are not a parachutist badge, they also wear the mini para wings on their left breast pocket.
AIRBORNE... ALL THE WAY!!!


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## Recce41 (5 Jan 2002)

Thanx Jungle 
 I was told some only had the DEU style for about a yr?  I haven‘t seen many wear them and not too many Riggers wear their DEUs at the Nosedock. I‘ll have to ask the buddy I spock to. Why he only had them about a yr?
 Sgt J.  CD, CDS com    Bold and Swift, Airborne Armour Recce


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## spacemarine (5 Jan 2002)

I saw a soldier at Rememberance Day 2 years ago with his riggers wings on his DEUs, so they‘ve been out for at least that long. By the way, what does the mini para wing look like? The only mini one I‘ve seen was for mess dress or civilians (you know the kind with the olive green back ground).


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## Recce41 (5 Jan 2002)

? The one I wear on the pocket of my DEUs is metal. And Red background on my mess dress. And about the rigger wings I guess they were out for a couple yrs, but some never put them on. I never saw them in Petawawa on DEUs. 
  Sgt J. CD, CDS com


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## Andyboy (8 Jan 2002)

Thanks one and all for the replies. I guess you do learn something new every now and then.


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## Slashman555 (20 Jun 2017)

Good afternoon all!
I am currently jusy finishing QL3 Supply and at the beginning of the course we had tryouts for the rigger positions in trenton. I failed the pt portion for chin ups and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on specific exercises that will help with chin ups?
As well; I start my first posting in a few weeks to CFB Edmonton to the Service Battalion and I was wondering if you think I should make my intentions of going Rigger known to my COC when I arrive?
Lastly, a fellow on course suggested I pen a memo to my COC outlining my intentions of rigger and asking permission for extra gym time during the work weeks and how that would be beneficial. Do you think that is a good ideaor is it just likely to be shot down?

Thanks all for reading this, and I apologize if these are stupid questions but I've only been in since January and went from basic right to QL3 and then soon to Edmonton so I have zero knowledge on most things.

Cheers,
Brad.


Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## mariomike (20 Jun 2017)

Slashman555 said:
			
		

> I failed the pt portion for chin ups and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on specific exercises that will help with chin ups?



Chin ups
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+chin+ups&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=rFNJWYG3A4qR8QfX6rLgBg&gws_rd=ssl#spf=1497977773085


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## Infant_Tree (20 Jun 2017)

General tip for anyone reading this. If you're not able to do even 1 chin-up, try practicing reverse chin-ups first. I have found it to be very helpful. Same applies to pull-ups.

This YouTuber (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1XHNZDn3btv7454Pkz7THg) has very helpful exercise tips for beginners.


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## Slashman555 (20 Jun 2017)

mariomike -  Seen, My apologies


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## mariomike (20 Jun 2017)

Slashman555 said:
			
		

> mariomike -  Seen, My apologies



No need to apologize. Good luck.


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## Kat Stevens (20 Jun 2017)

I would suggest, maybe, that you get to your unit, get in the groove, maybe go through a couple of sheet exchange cycles in the shacks before putting the CofC on notice as to your aspirations and intentions. Your direct chain will interview you at various levels during your first few weeks in a gaining unit. That's where you make your future plans known. if you want to be a rigger, it's on you to prepare yourself for it. There are chin-up bars all over that base, crack a couple off when you pass one.


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## Infant_Tree (20 Jun 2017)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> There are chin-up bars all over that base, crack a couple off when you pass one.



@OP Maybe even find a gym buddy to help yourself stay motivated.


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## sidemount (20 Jun 2017)

It never hurts to let you CoC know your goals.

Great tips for chin ups given, just keep at it, the best way to be better at chin ups.....do more chin ups.


Also, since you are in edmonton, check out skydive Eden North. Might be worth going for a jump or 2 to see if you even like the jumping out of the airplane part. Plus a lot of guys who are para qualified (which you will have to be to be a rigger) are also Canadian Sport Parachute Association jumpers. The owner has trained many skyhawks in his day.


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## Slashman555 (20 Jun 2017)

@sidemount and Infant_Tree
Thanks for the advice. I think I will try to find a gym buddy when I get there and will certanly check out Eden North thanks for the heads up!

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## Infant_Tree (20 Jun 2017)

No problem.


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## 64McDonaugh (23 Jun 2018)

I’m new to the forum and I’ve done some searching around for this topic but couldn’t really find anything. I’m currently a RSM in cadets and I plan on getting my wings within the next two years I have left. I’m going reg force once I age out and joining up with the RWR. The problem is they don’t have a jump tasking, so my questions are. What courses do I have to take to become a rigger. Will I have to get posted to PPCLI Edmonton or Trenton? Any information on the process or even something to do with becoming a para instructor would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## BrewsKampbell (23 Jun 2018)

Rigger is a sub trade of Supply Technician, so you'd have to join that trade. Once in the trade they typically do the para PT test during the QL3 to select people for the Rigger positions. Joining doesn't mean you'll get one of those positions, though I know Supply is under strength I'm not sure on the competitiveness or availability of Rigger positions at the moment.


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## MJP (23 Jun 2018)

TrunkMonkey315 said:
			
		

> Rigger is a sub trade of Supply Technician not Infantry, so you'd have to join that trade. Once in the trade they typically do the para PT test during the QL3 to select people for the Rigger positions.



That may be changing to Rigger becoming an any trade posn, years away from a decision likely but possible.


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## BrewsKampbell (23 Jun 2018)

MJP said:
			
		

> That may be changing to Rigger becoming an any trade posn, years away from a decision likely but possible.



I could see that happening since they've already done it with a few trades, I think it would be a good move.


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## MJP (23 Jun 2018)

TrunkMonkey315 said:
			
		

> I could see that happening since they've already done it with a few trades, I think it would be a good move.



I agree


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## 64McDonaugh (23 Jun 2018)

So basically, I’d have to do my BMQ then DP-1 then QL3(not to sure on what that is assuming it’s a course for supply techs) and depending on my fitness they’d select me for rigger? I’ve heard that my local recruiter is pretty good at helping people getting where they wanna go.


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## BrewsKampbell (23 Jun 2018)

64McDonaugh said:
			
		

> So basically, I’d have to do my BMQ then DP-1 then QL3(not to sure on what that is assuming it’s a course for supply techs) and depending on my fitness they’d select me for rigger? I’ve heard that my local recruiter is pretty good at helping people getting where they wanna go.



BMQ, BMQ-L (SQ) then QL3 (your basic trades course). If selected for Rigger on your 3's you'll move to your Jump course then your riggers course upon completion. If not selected, you'll be a regular Supply tech.

DP-1 is for the Infantry, which a Rigger is not.


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## 64McDonaugh (23 Jun 2018)

Ok, I see. My plan is to get my wings In cadets so I can skip through jump course in the military unless they’d send me for a refresher. So I’d have to do BMQ-L? Is that the BMQ course for everyone but infantry? And I’m also not too sure on what the QL3 is. Sorry haha


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## BrewsKampbell (23 Jun 2018)

64McDonaugh said:
			
		

> Ok, I see. My plan is to get my wings In cadets so I can skip through jump course in the military unless they’d send me for a refresher. So I’d have to do BMQ-L? Is that the BMQ course for everyone but infantry? And I’m also not too sure on what the QL3 is. Sorry haha



Scroll down to Basic Occupation Training and that's what you'll learn on the QL3.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/caf-jobs/career-options/fields-work/administration-support/supply-technician.html

Not sure how it will work if you have your wings via Cadets. Supply tech can be any element, if you go Army you'll do BMQ-L at some point, either before or after your 3's. I think there may be a few trades in the Army that don't do it, I can't remember. Most will though. With that being said I don't know how the Rigger world works when it comes to your element, maybe someone else has more info. I've only seen them wear the Army DEU but I've only met a few.


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## Blackadder1916 (23 Jun 2018)

MJP said:
			
		

> That may be changing to Rigger becoming an any trade posn, years away from a decision likely but possible.



I think that it was an any trade job for a while in the 70s and 80s or so I seem to remember announcements in CFSOs (repeated in ROs) calling for applications.  It didn't become a Sup Tech specialty until 1984 (according to the attached from https://canadianairborneforces.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2010-Maroon-Beret.pdf)


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## PuckChaser (23 Jun 2018)

64McDonaugh said:
			
		

> Ok, I see. My plan is to get my wings In cadets so I can skip through jump course in the military unless they’d send me for a refresher.



Your jump course is your jump course, you're not skipping through anything. It's likely just as hard to get a spot in Cadets as it is in the RegF.


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## 64McDonaugh (23 Jun 2018)

The jump course is pretty hard to get on but my corps gets pretty good opportunities to go. I’m also in great physical shape and score very high on the testing which helps people get selected. I’ve talked to a rigger, Jon from Warrior Gear he said it’s not hard to do it’s just a lengthy and demanding course. 
Im planning on staying in the forces till I could get full pension as long as it’s a good work life and it’s not too brutal.


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## MJP (23 Jun 2018)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> I think that it was an any trade job for a while in the 70s and 80s or so I seem to remember announcements in CFSOs (repeated in ROs) calling for applications.  It didn't become a Sup Tech specialty until 1984 (according to the attached from https://canadianairborneforces.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2010-Maroon-Beret.pdf)



Yes I should have said changing back to any any trade job. It has been in the Sup world for so long not many people know that it use to be any trade.


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## 64McDonaugh (23 Jun 2018)

So how hard would you say it is to get selected for rigger or para instructor? Is it hard to even get in to the course(s) or is it by chance/avaliabitly you get in?


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## Old Sweat (23 Jun 2018)

The Packer Rigger trade originated in 1950 in the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps and the troops practiced their craft in 28 Central Ordnance Depot in Camp Shilo, MB. It seems to me that as part of the unification - trade consolidation goat screw of the late sixties and early seventies, they ended up combined with RCAF safety systems techs and may even have been given that title. (NOTE I AM NOT SURE, BUT A BRAIN CELL KICKED THIS BIT OF TRIVIA OUT OF ITS RECESSES.) The rigger world did move to Edmonton as the Canadian Forces Parachute Maintenance Depot.

So what - this suggests the trade was associated with the logistics world for most of its existence. I know one of my (para qualified) instructors in recruit training in the RCA Depot in 1958 remustered to RCOC and was posted to 28 COD to be trained as a rigger.


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## 64McDonaugh (23 Jun 2018)

Thanks for the history Old Sweat very interesting. I know that if someone wants to be a rigger once they complete phase 3 of rigging they can be offered to pack the SAR’s chutes.


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## Halifax Tar (23 Jun 2018)

Packer/Riggers are a Sub Occupation of 00168 Sup Tech.  Any Sup Tech, regardless of uniform, can apply for this.  We just had an excellent LS leave the East Coast to be a Packer/Rigger. 

As far as I know this Sub Occ is only open to Supply Techs. 

I have never been so inclined.  But they seem to be continually recruiting as I think they have trouble filling their numbers.  

Having had them in to give briefs on Sup Tech 3s and 5s that I have taught, you are required to complete a separate PT test, and pass and interview.  At which point you will either be selected or not.  After that its off on that path.  I think which goes:  Jump Course -> Packing Trg and OJT -> Some years later Rigger Quals are possibly earned. 

Packers and Riggers are not the same thing.  At least thats how It was explained to me a laymen. 

You are still a Sup Tech while under this employment and will be required to complete all of the QL levels of Supply Trades trg. 

They are also incorporated in the Sup Tech merit listings for promotions.  But they can promote out of sequence to fill a vacancy in the Packer/Rigger world. 

You will also very likely leave the Packer/Rigger world for Sup Tech employment at some point as you are promoted up the ranks.


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## 64McDonaugh (23 Jun 2018)

Thank you for the in-depth reply. What are the QL’s of supply tech and how long do they take to reach? So what your saying is you’ll have to leave the appointment of “Rigger” at some point of your career unless you decide to stay Cpl forever?


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## Halifax Tar (24 Jun 2018)

64McDonaugh said:
			
		

> Thank you for the in-depth reply. What are the QL’s of supply tech and how long do they take to reach? So what your saying is you’ll have to leave the appointment of “Rigger” at some point of your career unless you decide to stay Cpl forever?



A QL is a Qualification Level.  So for Supply we have QL 3,4,5 and 6.  These are generally qualifications of trade proficiency that are required for you to earn a substantive rank.  The vary in lengths of 4 weeks to 2 months.  QL 4 is a package that is singed off by completing tasks in different areas of Supply.  This QL can take a few months. 

Packer/Riggers are a small group, so the more you move up in rank the less positions there are.  Keep in mind I never said you would have to leave just that it is very likely as you progress through the ranks. 

To sum up.  If you want to get into the Packer/Rigger world, join as a Sup Tech and on your QL3 course make sure you make your wishes known to your course staff and they will help you start down that path.  You should have a brief from the Packer/Riggers on your QL3.  They will also PT test, interview, select and offer all before your course is over.


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## 64McDonaugh (24 Jun 2018)

Thank you very much! Good info I’ll keep that in mind for the next year. I’m near 39 Service so would I join through them I guess?


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## Halifax Tar (24 Jun 2018)

64McDonaugh said:
			
		

> Thank you very much! Good info I’ll keep that in mind for the next year. I’m near 39 Service so would I join through them I guess?



I am not sure of your specific recruiting circumstances.  But there are no Packer/Riggers in the Army Reserve.  You would have to go Reg Force.

Your best bet is to make contact with your local CFRC and go through them.


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