# Saudi Support For Extremism



## tomahawk6 (31 Oct 2007)

The video is rather interesting. It starts with a bit of humor with the welcoming ceremony for the King at Horse Guards and then gets into a very interesting topic Saudi support of Wahabism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD38SQ8srXw&eurl=http://www.blackfive.net/


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## Edward Campbell (1 Nov 2007)

I have no doubt that Saudi money and Saudi _culture_ are at the root of fundamentalist, medieval _Islamism_ (or whatever we're supposed to call it) and the fascist/terrorist groups and movements which have declared war on us. It may be that the _intellectual_ base for all that lies with the (Egyptian born) Muslim Brotherhood but Wahhabi religious fundamentalism and veritable lakes of Saudi oil money give it zeal and the means to propagate its dangerous doctrines.

I guess I understand why President Bush (and, indeed, the West in general) tolerates the Saudis, but that doesn't make it right. (The Saudi lobby/PR machine is at least as effective and a lot better funded than is the Israeli lobby/PR machine.)

The "_Darth Vader_ March" was most appropriate!


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## geo (1 Nov 2007)

... All that oil
- all that money
- all that financing of fundamentalist islam!

-  How can you turn the tap off?


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## tamouh (2 Nov 2007)

There is no doubt extremism originate and nurture in Saudi land. But why the rulers of Saudi not attempt to put serious stop to it ?

The simple answer is, the current and previous kings of Saudi conquered Saudi people and defeated the Ottoman installed government by promoting the Wahhabi ideology. If the Saudi government to completely abandon the Wahhabi way of life, then I think many people who align themselves with the old school of Wahhabisim will standup in revolt. 

I give credit to the Saudi govt. for still holding control of its army and government. I'd have thought by now the Wahhabis had taken it over. It seems the Saudi kings have allowed their population to be as extreme as they want as long as they don't interfere in the external affairs of the Kingdom.

The downside for us is these extremist ideas tend to translate to hatred against the West thus bypassing the local government and directly exporting that hate internationally


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## Flip (2 Nov 2007)

> How can you turn the tap off?



Perhaps we could engineer a "fossil fuels are bad" campaign.
Raise the prices of fossil fuels and make it clear that the 
consequences of continuing to use fossil fuels are dire.
Promote alternative energy.  Make it clear that the
products of combustion are intolerable to the earth.
Create international treaties and use the CBC in an 
incessant PR campaign........

Wait a minute - Am I in the wrong thread?  ;D


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## Greymatters (2 Nov 2007)

tamouh said:
			
		

> The simple answer is, the current and previous kings of Saudi conquered Saudi people and defeated the Ottoman installed government by promoting the Wahhabi ideology. If the Saudi government to completely abandon the Wahhabi way of life, then I think many people who align themselves with the old school of Wahhabisim will standup in revolt.



So it has nothng to do with the allegations that several senior members of the Saudi government and royal family support Wahhabism and extremism?  And the only reason the Saudis act is when internal extremist/fanatic/terrorist plots threaten to destabilize their control over the country?


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## tamouh (2 Nov 2007)

> So it has nothng to do with the allegations that several senior members of the Saudi government and royal family support Wahhabism and extremism?  And the only reason the Saudis act is when internal extremist/fanatic/terrorist plots threaten to destabilize their control over the country?



Likely there are many Wahhabi supporters within the Royal family (afterall, it is what got them there). Though, if you observe closely to the type of people who join the Saudi intelligence agency or the army, they're typically the most loyal to the Saud House than Wahhabist extremists. Would the government acting against Wahhabis stabilize their country ? I think it would. Recently, they've been cracking down on religious police practices and instituting changes to their school text books. Turtle steps in an area bogged down in trible way of thinking.

The question for us is what should we do about it ? Should we invade Saudi you think and get rid of a government that is still more allied with the West than the Wahhabis ? Or should we encourage change to practices and ideologies through these governments...pretty much walk them through the steps to move their nation from the dark ages practices.


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## Greymatters (2 Nov 2007)

tamouh said:
			
		

> The question for us is what should we do about it ? Should we invade Saudi you think and get rid of a government that is still more allied with the West than the Wahhabis ? Or should we encourage change to practices and ideologies through these governments...pretty much walk them through the steps to move their nation from the dark ages practices.



Good question.  Invasion is not an option, but while waiting for slow change, the violence continues...


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## muskrat89 (2 Nov 2007)

On a similar, but related note...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307680,00.html

In part: 





> Saudi Marriage 'Expert' Advises Men in 'Right Way' to Beat Their Wives
> Friday, November 02, 2007
> 
> 
> ...


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## tamouh (2 Nov 2007)

> "Beating in the face is forbidden, even when it comes to animals," he explained. "Even if you want your camel or donkey to start walking, you are not allowed to beat it in the face. If this is true for animals, it is all the more true when it comes to humans. So beatings should be light and not in the face."



LOL...spank 'em!


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## midget-boyd91 (2 Nov 2007)

> Or should we encourage change to practices and ideologies through these governments...pretty much walk them through the steps to move their nation from the dark ages practices.



IMO, there isn't going to be any major change in the ideologies there. Saudi Arabians (as a population) are more involved mentally with the middle east. They are a major part of a big part of the world. Changing, or attempting to change their ideologies is a near impossible task, as there is too much influence from neighbouring countries full of extremism. The way I see this is you can't change the mindset of half of the world... or even their quarter. No matter how successful the attempts are, there will still be those who view the Quaran (among other things) in an extreme way, and that small section of the population will still be carrying out "God's will" in madrases, and in attacks. Their presence will be heard, seen and felt. That message will give a cause to another who listens and feels for their cause.  A slow attempt at a change in ideologies will create radicals on the other side too. Those who become so determined to rid their city, or coutnry of radicals of the other side of the page, will become radicals themselves.

Pro-Western and Westerners are the Rottweiler, and the Anti-West extremists are the Pitt-Bull. The world is our kennel, and as the world has grown smaller over the 20th century, the two dogs are forced closer together. Everyone knows that whenever two dogs that don't like each other are in the same kennel, there is one outcome.. they fight. No matter how much we try to change it, there is always going to the a Rottweiler, and a Pitt-Bull stuck in our kennel of planet Earth.

Thats my two long winded pennies anyways. Hopefully my brain worked enough for what I said to make some sence to someone.


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## Greymatters (2 Nov 2007)

A lot of animal analogies being used here....


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## tamouh (2 Nov 2007)

> A slow attempt at a change in ideologies will create radicals on the other side too. Those who become so determined to rid their city, or coutnry of radicals of the other side of the page, will become radicals themselves.



Agree, but lets not forget most people are followers. They believe in something because their "idol" appear to them strongly believe in that thing. There are many moderate Saudis who speak democracy, development, and modern Islam. If you don't try, you'll never succeed. Once the majority is open minded, the radical influence will be limited. Once poverty, fairness and justice is installed, there will be no reason for people to believe in radical ideals. 

I remember conversations of those Wahhabi even disputing some pretty scientific proven facts like claiming The sun actually move around the earth instead of the other way, and that the Americans have staged the moon landing. People with no knowledge of science and no idea about the modernized world will believe in these sorta things. For a region that has been until recently "isolated" in a way the new development in the world could be a wakeup sign for them to modernize.

I think with current day technologies like the internet and fast communications , that region is more and more realizing how wrong they are. I think it will take some time for the mentalities to change. But I believe we're doing some progress through modern technologies.


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## a_majoor (4 Nov 2007)

More here:

http://mesopotamiawest.blogspot.com/2007/11/saudi-arabia-hub-of-world-terror.html



> Saturday, November 3, 2007
> *Saudi Arabia Hub of World Terror*
> 
> Have they had a putsch at the Times? The on-line version today has the most startling headline I personally have ever seen on a British news site:
> ...


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## Greymatters (5 Nov 2007)

It could be interpreted another way - perhaps the Saudi fighters are just the most likely to surrender?


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## geo (5 Nov 2007)

Greymatters said:
			
		

> A lot of animal analogies being used here....



What do you expect.... women are considered "chattle".  To be seen but not heard.  Walk behind the man.  No vote, no rights...... ecept not to be beaten on the face.


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## Greymatters (5 Nov 2007)

geo said:
			
		

> What do you expect.... women are considered "chattle".  To be seen but not heard.  Walk behind the man.  No vote, no rights...... ecept not to be beaten on the face.



   And they wonder why other countries see them as a bit behind the times...


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