# "Veterans take affairs into their own hands"



## Teager (21 Mar 2014)

> Afghanistan veteran Bruce Moncur is taking on a new role to help fellow Canadian soldiers who have returned from combat.
> 
> He's one of the founding members of the Afghanistan Veterans Association of Canada.
> 
> ...



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/veterans-take-affairs-into-their-own-hands-1.2578283

Seems odd to me. I want to know the types of services they plan on providing and how much these dues are. Also it does seem very political.


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Mar 2014)

> So Comartin suggested he hire Moncur as a staffer at Comartin's Windsor office and run the association out of a Unifor office.



I am already hearing rumblings from people that this is just a front for the NDP and the Unions. Many people are still upset about the way PSAC horned in on the Veteran\ Fantino fiasco, seemingly making it about Veterans when it was really about the loss of Union dues.

Many Afghanistan Vets are ready to join, but are afraid of the stigma that will be attached to the organization because of the relationship with Bruce and his mentors.

I like Bruce and believe in what he's doing, but _I think_, things will have to be divorced from his providers if he expects to Association to get off the ground and prosper.

Wittingly or not, willingly or not, Bruce will have to make a decision soon if he wants to head this venture.

That, or stick to his Veterans advocacy, and let someone else run the Association. Last I looked, it has about 60 members, mostly local and all Afghanistan Vets, and the word is just getting out.

Hopefully, it doesn't go off the rails, before it starts, over politics.


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## Teager (21 Mar 2014)

RG do you have any idea what possible services the association may offer? I agree that getting away from the Union and politics would be best for it. I guess Bruce is having the problem of starting this and needing support/funding thus having the NDP and Union involved.


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## Fishbone Jones (22 Mar 2014)

I'm not sure, at this time. I hear that the Association just received it's status yesterday.

_I think_, the Association is just that. An Association of Afghan Veterans.

_I also think_, that Bruce is going to try pick up the slack in Windsor, left by the departure of the Harper government when they closed the office here, in that he's attempting to become a person in the similar capacity of a Legion Vet Services Officer. That and help people navigate their claims and the intolerable bureaucracy of the VAC Insurance Company. It appears he's going to advocate for all Vets, no matter the conflict.

That's the rub, being hired on staff by the local NDP MP, as a Veteran's advocate and given room in the local Unifor office to work from, put an unfavourable slant on the fact that he's also trying to get the Association off the ground at the same time. The waters are getting muddied and people are starting to have a hard time deciding who's working for who, what the motives are and if the Association is connected with the NDP and Unions.

Here's the Facebook site with the Association info and application. https://www.facebook.com/groups/219903948077143/


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## Tibbson (22 Mar 2014)

Given it's track record I can't help but wonder if this is not what the government wanted Vets to do in the first place?  Less money for the feds to pay.  After all, they feel they have no social contract with Vets any more.


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## Teager (1 May 2014)

More from Bruce seems like it could be a good idea.



> When you are diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) you spend a lot of time being analytical. Whether it's a therapist, a doctor, or even yourself, understanding the origins of your PTSD is essential to your coping, and eventual treatment. And after years of personal analysis, I have come to the conclusion that it was both my time in Afghanistan and the failures within Canada's Department of Veterans Affairs (VAC) that aggravated my PTSD since returning home.
> 
> In fact, I have gone so far to argue that my experience in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban was equally as damaging to me mentally as the fight I face every day on the home front in Canada, with VAC. The ineptitude that the Department of Veterans Affairs operates under led to my first blog post and I can attest that I am not the only soldier who feels they have not been taken care of when coming home.
> 
> ...



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/bruce-moncur/veterans-affairs-canada_b_5106048.html


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## reccecrewman (14 Aug 2014)

This clip of the above article is BS;

"And so, in order to received the type of services veterans feel they deserve, in the confidential location of a Veterans Affairs office, we are now forced to travel. Unfortunately, under the new charter, our travel costs are no longer reimbursed. Consider this for a veteran from Thunder Bay, Ontario. The closest VAC office he or she can go to is now in Winnipeg, Manitoba, an eight-hour drive in optimal weather. This 1,708 km trek creates wear and tear on one's vehicle and will take at least three tanks of gas to fill. Estimated at roughly $1.25 a litre, the gas mileage alone would cost this veteran $281.00 out of pocket. (Keep in mind, government employees receive mileage compensation at $0.55/km, $939.40 round trip.)"

"Unfortunately, under the new charter, our travel costs are no longer reimbursed"????? Ummm.... no.  Under the new charter, all medical costs relating to a pensioned condition ARE covered. Depending on your Province, rates are between .455 - .63 per km. Far above what many private insurance pay out for medical travel.  Then, if the client is a B client, ALL medical travel regardless of pensioned condition are covered by VAC including meals if they are away from home over a designated meal period.  Parking lot receipts can be claimed as well for the appointments, and in some cases, overnight hotel accomodations can be approved if the client is required to travel a long distance.

Now, if the Veteran in the example is simply jumping in his car to make the 708 km trek to Winnipeg to have a general inquiry chat with his CSA about his file or available benefits, THEN, he will foot the bill for travel.  There's nothing in a general inquiry visit to a VAC District Office that a Veteran cannot get resolved by calling the NCCN number and asking to speak to someone about whatever it is they have a query on.  However, if said Veteran receives a letter from VAC requesting he come to the Winnipeg DO for some reason such as a PME with the office SDMO, then his mileage, meals, parking and incidentals are most certainly covered under the NVC and with a hike from Thunder Bay to Winnipeg, overnight accommodation in a hotel will most certainly be authorized.  

He also mentioned this in the same paragraph;
"And so, in order to received the type of services veterans feel they deserve, in the confidential location of a Veterans Affairs office, we are now forced to travel."  There are Veterans all over Canada who have had to travel for years to get to their closest VAC office.  These 8 office closures only make that group larger.  He's making it sound like there was a Veteran's Affairs office within walking distance to every Veteran in Canada, and now these closures have taken that away. Again... no.  I don't agree with the Government's decision to close those offices, but, the wording of his sentence makes it look like now every Veteran Canada wide has to drive 1,700 km's to the nearest VAC office.  Our Thunder Bay Veteran would get $814.20 in gas reimbursement (Based off the Ontario rate of .575 cents a km) plus $90.95 for his meals and incidentals for his trip for each day. At 708 km's he would have his hotel paid if he requested it and therefore be entitled to meals and incidentals for the 2 days he would be travelling for his trip. That's $996.10 he would stand to make on his trip to Winnipeg. He indicated the mileage alone would cost the Veteran $281.00.  Our Thunder Bay Veteran is left with $715.10 to pay for 2 days of food.  Looks like he's banking about $600.00 from his trip to Winnipeg.... not too shabby for 2 days if you ask me.

I realise that VAC is far from a flawless system, but it irks me to no end when completely false information gets thrown out there to smear them even more.  For sure changes need to made, but lets not go spreading falsehoods or omitting some information of a particular situation to make that Department look even worse.


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## Teager (14 Aug 2014)

I believe the article was aimed at going to a VAC office not medical appointments. I beleive the main argument and something you forget is there are many older vets out there that are use to dealing with people in person and it is hard on them to travel long distances. Calling the number to sort out paper work or claims for older and even younger vets does not sort out issues with how complex VAC makes things. This is why it was more convienent for vets to be able to go by the local VAC office and have someone guide them through the process.


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## George Wallace (14 Aug 2014)

Teager said:
			
		

> I believe the article was aimed at going to a VAC office not medical appointments. I beleive the main argument and something you forget is there are many older vets out there that are use to dealing with people in person and it is hard on them to travel long distances. Calling the number to sort out paper work or claims for older and even younger vets does not sort out issues with how complex VAC makes things. This is why it was more convienent for vets to be able to go by the local VAC office and have someone guide them through the process.



Let's admit it.  These policies are being made by those brilliant 'Think Tank' professionals who face no inconveniences in their lives, living with the latest luxury toys and tools in major metropolitan areas.  Just like the Canada Post decission to make my 91 year old mother struggle through three feet of snow with her walker and pacemaker up and down a hill in Fredericton in order to get her mail from a Super Box during our eight months of winter, and her not having, nor likely ever to have, a computer and email; all Departments are cutting costs and in turn cutting services to their patrons.  It is becoming more obvious, to those who observe closely, that modern schools of economics are teaching more on the mighty dollar and cost cutting schemes than on the ideas that quality and good service guarantees customer satisfaction and dedication.  The down hill spiral of service and customer satisfaction is resulting in less profits, and these eggheads are so smart that they can not see this basic truth.  Cuts to service is their solution to rising costs of operations.....and we are once again witness' to the Dunning Kruger Effect.


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## Fishbone Jones (14 Aug 2014)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> This clip of the above article is BS;
> 
> "And so, in order to received the type of services veterans feel they deserve, in the confidential location of a Veterans Affairs office, we are now forced to travel. Unfortunately, under the new charter, our travel costs are no longer reimbursed. Consider this for a veteran from Thunder Bay, Ontario. The closest VAC office he or she can go to is now in Winnipeg, Manitoba, an eight-hour drive in optimal weather. This 1,708 km trek creates wear and tear on one's vehicle and will take at least three tanks of gas to fill. Estimated at roughly $1.25 a litre, the gas mileage alone would cost this veteran $281.00 out of pocket. (Keep in mind, government employees receive mileage compensation at $0.55/km, $939.40 round trip.)"
> 
> "Unfortunately, under the new charter, our travel costs are no longer reimbursed"????? Ummm.... no.  Under the new charter, all medical costs relating to a pensioned condition ARE covered. Depending on your Province, rates are between .455 - .63 per km. Far above what many private insurance pay out for medical travel.  Then, if the client is a B client, ALL medical travel regardless of pensioned condition are covered by VAC including meals if they are away from home over a designated meal period.  Parking lot receipts can be claimed as well for the appointments, and in some cases, overnight hotel accomodations....................................



OK, that was the most convoluted post I've read in a long time. Whatever point(s) you were trying to make are lost in the jumble.

See how your post is separated from mine? We have a very good 'Quote' function on the board.  Please start using it.

---Staff---


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## reccecrewman (14 Aug 2014)

I concur George, but WRT to Teagers response about the article being about going to VAC appointments, I still illustrated quite clearly that if you get a letter requesting your presence at a VAC office, clients are more than compensated for their travel.  I also pointed out that clients in places like Timmins or Fort McMurray (or hundreds of others) have, for years, had no VAC office close by to simply drop in for a face to face meeting with a VAC employee.  It is what is. We can't have a Government Departmental office in every city and town across the Country.  It's not economically feasible!  Just like there's not an Indian Affairs office in every city and town, but there are Native's living pretty much everywhere who don't have close access to an Indian Affairs office.

The fact is, the offices that were closed were shut down due to dwindling Veterans in various areas.  A lot of the offices that were shut down were primarily placed there in the first place for WWII and Korean Veterans who, after war, moved to the urban centres for work.  Unfortunately, they are now at the age were they are passing away at a rapid rate.  Take the Windsor District Office.  The amount of work for VAC employees there 10, 15 years ago was very substantial.  Now, not so much.  So, they shut down that DO and moved the clients in that area to the London District Office.  WWII and Korean Veterans who lived in Chatham and Sarnia have had to travel to Windsor or London for the past 40 plus years.  In the 50's to 80's, Chatham and Sarnia had huge Veteran populations, but they never warranted their own offices despite that.  Offices were placed strategically based on the Veteran demographic population and now those demographics are greatly changed.  My WWII Grandfather Veteran had to travel 107 kilometres from Sarnia to London to go to a DVA (At the time) office.  It is what it is.

What we as Veterans really need to be screaming in outrage about, is that the plan VAC laid down in 2011 for their "Transformation" over a four year period (Due to Government cutbacks) was a reduction in staff by nearly a third! In 2011, VAC employed roughly 2,800 people and by the end of the four year transformation period, they want to be down to around 2,000.  The first round of cuts in 2012 were targeted at eliminating CSA positions Canada wide.  For the record, CSA's are the front line service workers who work for Veterans to get them their benefits! They slashed away at CSA positions causing a massive work backload that got dumped on the surviving CSA's who were left standing when the dust settled in summer 2012 after the SERLO process was completed.  Then the Government has the audacity to say services to Veterans will NOT be affected! I'm sorry, you cannot reduce a workforce of ANY company or  factory and not see a drop in production.  It's going to happen and it HAS happened.  CSA's Canada wide are so badly backlogged it's insane.  Work items from January and February are still sitting there awaiting action because they are swamped.  We should have been out in droves throwing support behind them, writing letters to our MP's protesting these cuts.

Instead, too many are content to spew rage over "getting screwed over by VAC".  VAC is merely following the direction of their political masters.  Policies are laid down by Government bureaucrats and the Department is forced to comply with those directives.  No difference from directives the Military must follow that come down from the MND.  I've seen Veterans scream at, and belittle CSA's in the intake room as if it's that very individual whose "screwing them over", rather than accept that what they are being told is simply the CSA following Government directive.  I've told some they need to leave immediately and notified their C o C of their abusive behavior.  We need to take our frustration and anger at the broken system, and direct our energies in a positive, constructive manner to demand change.


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## Teager (14 Aug 2014)

reccecrewman I agree the front line staff are important and I think with the VAC offices that closed what the other complaint was was that veterans would be losing a lot of the front line staff including ones that came to your house. I've never heard of vets complaining of the front line staff and from what I have read in the media they are well supported by veterans for what they do. Unfortuantly cuts never seem to go from the top down.

I believe the majority of veterans know it is a system issue not a VAC staff problem. When vets begin to show frustration to staff and blame staff its probably because they are at there wits end with the system. Some may even have mental health issues and can become angry easily. I'm sure VAC staff are well aware of this. IMO calling ones CoC over there behaviour can be both good and bad depending on the situation.


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## McG (9 Feb 2015)

> *System slammed*
> WAR VETERANS: Lump sum pensions under fire as inadequate
> Gord Young, QMI Agency
> The London Free Press
> ...


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