# Canada buys Husky, Buffalo & Cougar for Afghanistan (Where's the Meerkat?)



## Allen

There has been no news about this, only this press release from the manufacturer:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070501005928&newsLang=en


----------



## McG

It could be that it is a small purchase to fill a specialist role.  There was no big media fan fare when the CF bought the first 3 Nyala for Engr Recce either.

It is worth noting that the Buffalo is an EOD/MCM vehicle: http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/35310.0.html

If we are lucky, there is another contract to get Meerkats (or something like them) to work with the Buffalo.


----------



## Electrical Eng.

I can understand the military having interest in the Buffaloes for the obvious reason of mine, unexploded ordinance, IED and suspicious object removal from safe distances but the purchase of Cougars are very unusual.  The RG-31 Nyala and the Cougar, though different in mechanical structure and power plant, are designed for essentially the same sorts of missions.  If the reason for the purchase is to buy a variant that is an urgent operational necessity for the ongoing operations, then why not just purchase and modify a Nyala / RG-31?  I am beginning to think that the CF command is looking at the Nyala with a critical eye and wondering aloud if there is a better vehicle available.

Though not fully aware of all the ongoing issues with the Nyala, there seems to be two reoccurring themes that I read about in the various threads and articles.  Underpowered powertrains and excessive maintenance.  If the reason that the Cougar is being looked at as an alternative to the Nyala is the underpower issue, then I feel that this is not a valid argument.  The cougar has an off the shelf more powerful engine / transmission combination than the Nyalas that are currently in service with the CF but, an upgraded diesel engine (123 HP to 275HP) is now offered standard by GDLS for the Nyala.  Retrofitting or upgrading the whole fleet of vehicles can be accomplished in theater or at home home very easily with essentially off the shelf parts.

We also know that the terrain in Afghanistan is probably the worst on the planet for wear and tear on a vehicle.  The maintenance required for the vehicles drive systems, suspension, brakes and other mechanical systems is to be expected in my opinion.  I wonder if other similar vehicles would also have a maintenance record not much different then our Nyalas.  Ongoing and excessive maintenance on electrical, diagnostic and self-defence systems are a different story.  If this is a concern than I can understand looking elsewhere for an alternative.

To say the least, I am a surprised and little bit perplexed by this purchase.  This government has been very enthusiastic about broadcasting to the general public about recent purchases and upgrades and has been silent on this purchase up to now.  They have put their money where their mouth is and should be congratulated (and reelected) for this (in my opinion).  I just wish that some official clarification or justification was available to review.


----------



## Jammer

Speaking as some on who was part of the EOD/IEDD team...these vehs will not enhance our capability, in fact our teams resoundly opposed the idea of these vehs when approached by the TAV from CFEOD last year.
The Bisons we used were far better in terms of work space and overall functionality. Not happy at all about this...


----------



## McG

You are assuming that the Cougar has been bought to be an EOD tm vehicle.  The Buffalo is a IED recce vehicle & the team rides somewhere else.


----------



## KevinB

FWIW the US Mil is using the Nyala and has also bought the Cougar and Buffalo as well...

You see them daily in Iraq.


----------



## Jammer

I assume nothing.
I'm well aware of what the vehs are used for, you see I was on the CDN EOD/IEDD team.
Even the USAF/Army EOD teams didn't like them. We worked with them many times during Ops Medusa, and B'azz Tzuka
The Buffalo and Cougars are used as pairs in their teams, along with the Meerkat.
The Buffalo DOES carry the IED exploitation team.


----------



## McG

Jammer said:
			
		

> I assume nothing.


You have assuemed much.  You have assumed that Canada will use all the vehicles in all the same roles that the US does.  (As an aside, the US also uses the Cougar as the troop carrier that we thought we could get from the Nyala)

You have assumed that the Cougar will replace the Bison as the EOD Tm vehicle.  It might, but you don't know that (and neither do I).

You have also assumed that I am not aware how the RCP works.  In the US exploitation world (which we have copied) the exploitation guys were not the EOD Tm.  An RCP worked with an EOD/IEDD capability in a second vehicle.


----------



## Garett

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070506/armoured_vehicles_070506/20070506?hub=Canada

http://www.forceprotection.net/about/vehicles.html

Canada buys 10 more armoured vehicles from U.S.

Updated Sun. May. 6 2007 4:19 PM ET

Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- The Defence Department has quietly signed a deal with a U.S. defence contractor to acquire 10 heavily armoured patrol vehicles.

The US $8.8 million deal was announced by Force Protection, Inc., (NASDAQ:FRPT) of Charleston, S.C., on its website late last week.

The company will manufacture 10 Buffalo and Cougar mine-protected vehicles -- five each -- for the Canadian expeditionary force command.

The trucks, which have a V-shaped hull meant to deflect the blasts of roadside bombs, are expected to be delivered in August and are destined for duty in Afghanistan.

"This initial, urgent order will go . . . for immediate deployment,'' Damon Walsh, a vice-president at Force Protection, said in a statement.

"Based on past performance, we know it will save Canadian lives.''

Defence has not commented on the purchase, nor explained why the vehicles are necessary after last year's acquisition of 75 RG-31 Nyalas from a South African subsidiary of British-owned BAE Systems Inc.

The Nyala, although loved by the troops for the protection that it affords from improvised explosives, went through a series of teething pains.

The vehicle, which has seen service all over the world, was specially modified for Canada's needs in Afghanistan. Rather being fielded tested to work out the bugs, the Nyalas went straight from the South African assembly line on to the explosive-strewn streets of Kandahar.

Last summer, at the height of fierce fighting with the Taliban, more than a quarter of the fleet was in the shop with maintenance problems, army records show.

Most of the problems were either electrical or software glitches, many relating to the roof-mounted, remote-controlled machine gun.

The alternators in the Nyalas could not handle the combined load of the remote-controlled machine gun and newly installed Canadian radios and jammers. The electrical system had to be beefed up to handle 280 amps.

It's unclear if those problems convinced the department to shop elsewhere -- or whether the new vehicles will have a defined role with specific types of troops.

For example, since 2003, American forces have assigned Cougars and Buffaloes to engineering and explosive-disposal teams.

Unlike, the Nyala, the new trucks have no windows and are capable of carrying more troops and equipment.


----------



## Cdnronin

I checked the "Force Protection Inc" website and these vehicles were also designed for these addition roles:

Cougar - Mine Clearance, Asset Protection, or C&C.
Buffalo - Convoy C&C, Communications, EOD Teams or Field Ambulance.


----------



## TheHead

The Nyala, although loved by the troops for the protection that it affords from improvised explosives,


I love that phrase. That's the only thing it was loved for.  The Nyala was garbage on an Operational sense and should be give to rear echelon elements for force protection.   

I was a Nyala gunner on Op Archer Roto 1 and the only thing that Vehicle was good for was #1 Breaking Down.  #2 Road moves on pavement.   I spent most of my time during night moves not scanning my arcs but telling my driver where to go since he couldn't see anything.   I commend the Military for the thought, since it was a hasty decision to save troops lives, but once again no tactical thought was put into this decision.   Unless things have been retrofitted (Like a STAB for the weapon, and many other key functions that were missing,broken or just left out  : )  than I hope those things are never used in a forward unit on combat operations.


----------



## tomahawk6

The US has deployed the Interim Vehicle-Mounted Mine Detector consisting of the Meerkat,Husky, a trailer and a vehicle containing spare parts.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/june2003/a060203a.html


----------



## 3rd Herd

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2007-08-01-force-protection-mraps_N.htm
The Usual Disclaimer

As explosives in Iraq get deadlier, makers of armored vehicles alter plans
By Peter Eisler, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — On a sunny October morning in 2004, a 13-ton, desert-tan military truck rumbled by the police barriers that guard Capitol Hill and pulled up between two buildings where lawmakers have their offices.
The heavily armored Cougar, sitting nearly 4 feet off the ground atop a V-shaped hull, was a novelty even to Washington's most seasoned military experts. But officials with Force Protection Inc., the truck's fledgling manufacturer, held it up as an answer to a familiar problem. This vehicle, they said, could protect against the improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, that had become the top killer of U.S. troops in Iraq..................

Interesting video of direct under belly IED test in Aberdeen shot in the spring of 2007 on the same citing link.

Edit to add:

See also: Cougar Armored Trucks to Stalk Mines on the Battlefield-14-Aug-2007 16:46 
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/cougar-armored-trucks-to-stalk-mines-on-the-battlefield-updated-0532/


----------



## Nfld Sapper

CBC ARTICLE LINK

New military vehicles to combat roadside bombs
Last Updated: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 | 6:21 AM ET 
CBC News 
The Canadian military is buying 16 specialized vehicles designed to detect, dig up and neutralize the roadside bombs that have plagued troops in Afghanistan.

Deliveries of the six Husky, five Buffalo and five Cougar vehicles are scheduled to begin in October, the Canadian Press reported.

The vehicles, to be purchased from the U.S. military, will cost nearly $30 million dollars.

The Husky vehicles can detect mines buried under or at the side of roads, while the five Buffalo vehicles will dig them up using extended arms and cameras.

The five Cougar vehicles will be capable of neutralizing bombs.

Of the 69 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan, about half were killed by roadside bombs.


----------



## R.O.S

Oh, I have a good editorial article of this from the national post by Lorne Gunter.... well good for the internet that I don't have to scan the clip out. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=42330da9-038e-42c4-9d6f-bf96bc48efe8 . THe article raises questions about the equipment the CF needs, and a shocking statement that Canadians are being killed at a rate 3 times of there american and british counterparts.


----------



## geo

Was wandering past the workshops today.  After having walked past several batteries worth of M109s, lo and behold, a bunch of the new COUGAR MPVs in their desert tan coulour.... wow - big boys!
They had the yellow "student driver" signs on them - not sure if they were testing em out prior to shipping em out or simply training the 1st batch of drivers.

NICE


----------



## GAP

Canadian troops in Afghanistan have new weapon in war against deadly IEDs
Article Link

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - Canadian troops in Afghanistan have a new weapon against deadly roadside bombs.

Military officials unveiled the first of their new RSD Husky armoured vehicles Wednesday.

The South African-built Huskies are equipped with sophisticated metal and electronic detectors that scan roads and ditches for improvised explosive devices, roadside bombs and landmines.

Roadside bombs have become the deadliest threat facing international troops in Afghanistan.

Twenty-nine of the 71 Canadian soldiers who have died were killed by roadside bombs, 22 of them in the past year. Another 11 Canadian soldiers have died in suicide bombing attacks.

Capt. David Holsworth, of the 5th Combat Engineers Regiment based in Valcartier, Que., said that Canadian troops used to rely on their American counterparts to clear roads with this type of equipment.

However, U.S. Huskies are largely tied up clearing roads for American convoys.

"A lot of the (soldiers who were killed by IEDs) could have been saved if we had had these earlier," Holsworth told reporters at Kandahar Airfield. "It's extremely important."

The Huskies look like road graders, minus the blade and with armour plate. The vehicle is built to resist the blast from underneath, with the driver seated high away from the bomb beneath.

"The section is really eager to get out there because they'll be saving their buddies," Holsworth said.

Military officials say the Huskies won't totally eliminate the risk of roadside bombs, but are a vast improvement over any equipment Canadians currently have.

Canada is buying 16 vehicles at a cost of $29.6 million, including six Huskies. Two of the Huskies will remain in Canada for training purposes, while the rest will be deployed in Afghanistan.
More on link


----------



## GAP

Husky to work with Cougar, Buffalo to clear mines in Afghanistan  
Article Link
KANDAHAR -- The deadliest war within the war in Afghanistan entered a new era Wednesday as Canadian combat engineers tried out for the first time some high-tech devices designed to stop Taliban improvised explosive devices from killing Canadians.

A South African-made Husky mine detection vehicle, which looks like an awkward road grader with several wheeled extensions trailing behind to detonate buried explosives, was put through its paces on a dusty field near the Kandahar airfield.

"The guys who are going to use it are really eager to get out there because they know that with this they will save the lives of their buddies," said Capt. David Holsworth of Kingston, Ont., an engineer with the 5th Combat Engineers Regiment of Valcartier, Que. "This is the best piece of kit there is."

Life-saving innovations are urgently needed. Of the 71 Canadian soldiers who have died in Afghanistan so far, 30 were killed when their vehicles hit home-made bombs buried in or near roads.

The Husky, which has four wheels set far apart with the driver riding high in the middle on an armoured, V-shaped hull, is designed to work in concert with two other huge vehicles. One, called the Buffalo, will be equipped with a long robot arm to defuse, disable or detonate whatever is found hidden in the ground. The second, known as a Cougar, will carry explosives experts, robots and electronic suppression devices

Read more on the Husky mine-detection vehicle here.

End of article


----------



## GAP

Explosion damages Canadian demining vehicle in Afghanistan, driver OK
Article Link

MASUM GHAR, Afghanistan - One of Canada's newest weapons against roadside bombs in Afghanistan became the victim of an improvised explosive device on Tuesday.

The Husky mine-detection vehicle was damaged by an explosion; the driver escaped unhurt. Roadside explosives have taken a terrible toll on Canadian soldiers, so it was with pride that the military recently unveiled the Husky, a vehicle built in South Africa that resembles a road grader.

In essence, the vehicle acts like a birddog using a combination of technology including X-ray and metal detection. If it spots anything suspicious, it drops a puddle of ink so the spot can be further investigated.

Its design, with a high one-man cockpit set back on the chassis and huge wheels in the front, provides maximum protection for the driver.

A pair of Huskies were making their way along Route Foster - a narrow, winding highway that runs west of Forward Operating Base Masum Ghar in Kandahar province. The area is a daily battle ground between Canadian forces trying to keep it free from mines, and Taliban insurgents who have free reign in many parts of the area.

After a number of false alarms in the first kilometre of what was supposed to be a 10-kilometre journey, Sgt. Jean-Francois De Wolfe sighed: "It's going to be a very long day."

Danger is everywhere on this stretch of road.
More on link


----------



## forcerecon85

Glad to know the driver was okay. Glad we have these. 


> "The explosion was really strong," added De Wolfe, who noted the damaged vehicle had just moved in front of his RG-31 armoured vehicle.
> "That one [Husky] is repairable; this one would have been cut in two."


Better to lose the front end of a Husky which is easily replaced then half a RG-31 and maybe those inside.


----------



## geo

Doh!
It was only a matter of time before one of the boys busted up one of the new huskies.

Glad everyone is OK.

The truck - they can fix.


----------



## Armymedic

Is not this the reason we bought that veh?


----------



## Mike Baker

Good to hear no one was hurt. 


A little off topic but;
we sent some huskies to some African contries, correct? And about how many do we have? (I think we only sent them 5 huskies, right?)


----------



## geo

No, we've only just purchased the Huskies.  They are destined to Afghanistan.  A training unit should be destined for Canada.

We sent some old Grizzlies to the Sudan for peacekeeping duties in the Darfur.


----------



## 1feral1

Great to all all are a fine!

Wes


----------



## Command-Sense-Act 105

Remember, the Wheeled ARV version of the AVGP was also known as Husky.  27 were produced:

http://www.eme421.com/avgp.htm


----------



## Mike Baker

Ahh alright, thanks guys.


----------



## geo

Doh - thanks for remining me CSA


----------



## Spencer100

geo said:
			
		

> Doh - thanks for *remining* me CSA



remining  ;D ;D


----------



## geo

.... Hey, it's a sapper joke  ;D > 8)


----------



## tomahawk6

The above comment was made by a Canadian operator of a Husky in Afghanistan after a huge IED explosion. Read the article. 







http://www.defenceoftherealm.com/

That was comment from the Canadian driver of a Husky demining vehicle (pictured above) after it had been hit by a huge bomb on a road in Afghanistan. 

As the South African built vehicle, one of a pair, was making its way along Route Foster - a narrow, winding highway that runs west of Forward Operating Base Masum Ghar in Kandahar province – there was a loud bang, the acrid smell of explosives and a blinding cloud of dust. The front end of the Husky was nowhere to be seen and, where the road had been, there was a crater six feet wide by three feet deep.

However, the rest of the vehicle was intact, including the driver, Cpl. Pierre Brule, in his cockpit. Said Brule, after complaining about his water bottle, "It was too quick to be scared anyway. The vehicle just dropped to the ground so it was pretty cool."

The Husky, pictured above, is one of the most recent acquisitions of the Canadian Armed Forces, part of what is known technically as "The Expedient Route Opening Capability" (EROC) systems. These, pioneered by US Forces, comprise the Husky, the Buffalo mine detection vehicle and the Cougar 6x6 mine protected vehicle. 

The Husky goes first, attempting to detect or explode buried explosives. The Buffalo, with its extendable hydraulic arm, investigates suspicious objects and the Cougars follow up, carrying the bomb disposal officers and their equipment, to deal with confirmed devices.

This team is changing the tempo of operations in the Canadian sector, moving from passive defence with armoured vehicles, to searching actively for buried improvised explosive devices.

And these answer the quite legitimate concerns of some British military commentators, who argued that the introduction of better protected vehicles would simply lead to the use by the terrorists of bigger bombs. This is indeed what they are doing but that necessarily means there are fewer of them and, being bigger, they are easier to find.

The Canadians themselves ordered the equipment in May last year and received deliveries in September of this year, convinced they would save lives, and they have been doing just that. Unsurprisingly, they describe it as, "the best piece of kit there is".

The British, who have been slow even to introduce protected vehicles, are catching up on this front, but they are still behind the curve – having none of this equipment. As the Taliban react to their improved vehicles, crews – even with better armour – will still be at risk. It is, therefore, imperative that serious consideration is given rapidly to acquiring the capabilities which first the Americans and now the Canadians have so ably demonstrated as life-saving.

We really cannot afford another "Snatch" Land Rover situation, where the Army and the MoD react after the event – and then slowly – to a hazard which is both predictable and avoidable.


----------



## Falange

I LOVE this South African designed vehicles. The Nyala, Mamba, Buffalo and the Husky are the product of strategic lessons learned prior and duringn the Bush War. I just love how amazing they look in the field specially the Buffalo.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

thanks for posting the picture it's a cool looking vehicle....I read the article on line this morning and gave a sigh of relief that we now have this equipment to protect our troops. I think we're learning a lot of lessons too from this new kind of warfare and hopefully we can get the right equipment to do the job...some Chinooks in a hurry would help too eh?


----------



## GAP

Here's another picture/schematic of how it is composed from the article link


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

Its nice not having to rely on the American's as much although there assistance was and is appreciated specifically with regards to these type of vehicles.


----------



## tomahawk6

A bit more detail.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20071023/ca_pr_on_na/afghan_cda_ied

MASUM GHAR, Afghanistan - One of Canada's newest weapons against roadside bombs in Afghanistan became the victim of an improvised explosive device on Tuesday.

The Husky mine-detection vehicle was damaged by an explosion; the driver escaped unhurt. Roadside explosives have taken a terrible toll on Canadian soldiers, so it was with pride that the military recently unveiled the Husky, a vehicle built in South Africa that resembles a road grader.

In essence, the vehicle acts like a birddog using a combination of technology including X-ray and metal detection. If it spots anything suspicious, it drops a puddle of ink so the spot can be further investigated.

Its design, with a high one-man cockpit set back on the chassis and huge wheels in the front, provides maximum protection for the driver.

A pair of Huskies were making their way along Route Foster - a narrow, winding highway that runs west of Forward Operating Base Masum Ghar in Kandahar province. The area is a daily battle ground between Canadian forces trying to keep it free from mines, and Taliban insurgents who have free reign in many parts of the area.

After a number of false alarms in the first kilometre of what was supposed to be a 10-kilometre journey, Sgt. Jean-Francois De Wolfe sighed: "It's going to be a very long day."

Danger is everywhere on this stretch of road.

In its early stages, the road is buffeted by mountains on one side and grape orchards, small villages and grape-drying huts on the other. The huts resemble bunkers, and have been used as such at times in battle.

The road narrows continually, eventually giving way to the plains and fields of tall marijuana and opium poppy crops.

A warning came upon entering this area.

"This next two or three kilometres is where most of the attacks have happened recently," said De Wolfe.

Every piece of disturbed earth, empty sandbags or even the remnants of other bombings set off alarm bells on the Husky. The 10-kilometre journey was beginning to look like 1,000.

One of the Huskies passed through a further narrowing of the road unscathed - but the second one wasn't so lucky.

A loud bang, the acrid smell of explosives and a blinding cloud of dust indicated the Taliban had struck again - successfully.

The front end of the Husky was nowhere to be seen but the rest of it, including the driver in his cockpit, were OK.

"He said dammit, I spilled my water bottle," laughed De Wolfe, who was in contact with the other driver over his radio.

Cpl. Pierre Brule, 31, was greeted with applause and laughter when he entered the lead command vehicle later. It was suggested he should have to pay for the damages out of his salary.

"What happened? Boom. That's all I have to say," chuckled Brule, who later was working on his vehicle to get it ready to be shipped back to base. 

"It was too quick to be scared anyway. The vehicle just dropped to the ground so it was pretty cool." 

A crater two metres wide and a metre deep indicated the force of the blast. 

"The explosion was really strong," added De Wolfe, who noted the damaged vehicle had just moved in front of his RG-31 armoured vehicle. 

"That one is repairable; this one would have been cut in two." 

The vehicle ironically had the bumper sticker, "Do all jobs suck or just mine???" 

The Husky is doing a job that used to be done by a single soldier walking along with mine-detection equipment. 

De Wolfe said the troops are excited about it. "This is another thing that is motivating us. Better to be us in this than our friends walking down a road." 

Cpl. Stephane Beaulieu, 23, was one of those augmenting the work of the Husky on Tuesday. 

"Anything that can be done to make things safer for us is welcome," he said. 

"We call it the old fashioned way, we just be careful and look on the floor for any clues that are possible." 

"We have enough training" to know what to look) for, he said. 

"But for sure there's a little adrenaline rush there."


----------



## 043

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> Its nice not having to rely on the American's as much although there assistance was and is appreciated specifically with regards to these type of vehicles.



Actually, these vehicles are built in Canada, by GM and purchased from the US.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

And it was the Americans that were clearing routes for us with them (as we didn't have them at the time), thus my comment about not having to rely on them as much as we are now using them as well and therefore can dictate the use of the vehicle.


----------



## 043

Ack!


----------



## McG

Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
			
		

> ... it was the Americans that were proving routes for us ...


They were clearing the routes. This means something different.


----------



## Colin Parkinson

TheHead said:
			
		

> The Nyala, although loved by the troops for the protection that it affords from improvised explosives,
> 
> 
> I love that phrase. That's the only thing it was loved for.  The Nyala was garbage on an Operational sense and should be give to rear echelon elements for force protection.
> 
> I was a Nyala gunner on Op Archer Roto 1 and the only thing that Vehicle was good for was #1 Breaking Down.  #2 Road moves on pavement.   I spent most of my time during night moves not scanning my arcs but telling my driver where to go since he couldn't see anything.   I commend the Military for the thought, since it was a hasty decision to save troops lives, but once again no tactical thought was put into this decision.   Unless things have been retrofitted (Like a STAB for the weapon, and many other key functions that were missing,broken or just left out  : )  than I hope those things are never used in a forward unit on combat operations.



Ok, now maybe I am missing something, looking at pictures of the vehicle, the driver seems to have windows almost the size of a MLVW, I could see that vis forward and down or to the rear is not great, but how does that differ from any other vehicle? While a stabilized weapon station is great when it works, it also means more weight and more stuff to break and fix.


----------



## MJP

I don't know about the vision thing but TheHEAD has a point with regards to the NYALA.  The vehicle is a great convoy escort vehicle but it is not a fighting vehicle and has horrible cross country movement rate.  There is only one exit(which exposes troops that have to dismount to fight) and the door is ungainly to open and close especially if you are on any sort of a downward slope.  The gun is unstabilized and therefore pretty useless on the move in a TIC.  The electrical systems is severely underpowered(or at least it was) and resulted in more RGs being broken than running when we got them.

Running on the pavement...excellent job for the RG.  Trying to force it to be a Infantry carrier/Fighting vehicle due to IED threats not so great of a job.


----------



## HItorMiss

Now I am not a fan of the Nyala but I will rebut some points by MJP...or I should say add an update to some of the issues the Nyala had.

The Gun is now STABed why they even bought the unstablized version first is beyond me but they have added it now... In fact the Roto that replaced TF 3-06 was trained on STAB Nyalas

The Door is now Hydraulically assisted for out and in so as to make it that you can actually open and close the damn thing...

The rest well yup he is bang on, cross country is shyte, there was a issues with power and fan belts not sure if that got fixed or not.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie

MCG said:
			
		

> They were clearing the routes. This means something different.



Not being an engineer I hope you'll excuse my incorrect wordage.


----------



## MJP

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> The Gun is now STABed why they even bought the unstablized version first is beyond me but they have added it now... In fact the Roto that replaced TF 3-06 was trained on STAB Nyalas
> 
> The Door is now Hydraulically assisted for out and in so as to make it that you can actually open and close the damn thing...
> 
> The rest well yup he is bang on, cross country is shyte, there was a issues with power and fan belts not sure if that got fixed or not.



Good to hear.....Now it is a halfway decent blast resistant "on a paved/gravel road" convoy escort vehicle.  

Thanks  HoM


----------



## McG

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> The Gun is now STABed why they even bought the unstablized version first is beyond me but they have added it now...


"They" had the choice of having Nyala without stabilized RWS now, or nothing until the stabalized RWS could be integrated into productionline vehicles.  I think vehicle now, stab later was better than nothing until we could have everything.  I am told that many UOR purchases sacrifice some performance in order to get the equipment in the hands of the soldier now.  I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing as long as there is a plan to eventually bring the kit up to the level of the full capability.


----------



## WLSC

> HitorMiss
> Insert Quote
> The Gun is now STABed why they even bought the unstablized version first is beyond me but they have added it now... In fact the Roto that replaced TF 3-06 was trained on STAB Nyalas
> 
> The Door is now Hydraulically assisted for out and in so as to make it that you can actually open and close the damn thing...



 :-\...I wish it was...  Some doors have been mod and the stab....well, I'm still waiting for the call  :'(



> The electrical systems is severely underpowered(or at least it was) and resulted in more RGs being broken than running when we got them.



Still are...

But...  The maintainer have fond a lot of small mods.  We are waiting only for the call to get all those things done...  The chkec is in the mail...


----------



## Miliceman

I've got a good powerpoint from a fellow sapper about a Buffalo (I think) who hit a 500 Lbs IED in Irak. I don't know hot to post it here, but if you want it, the pictures spoke by themselves.

Only the driver was hurt (by the steering wheel) and the engine was pitched over 30 feets away...


----------



## Fencer_1983

I remember hearing somewhere that the Cougar could survive the equivalent of two anti-tank mines.

There's a picture of a cougar that survived an IED attack relatively intact here:

http://www.defense-update.com/products/c/cougar.htm

So is it only being used for mine detection/removal or are there plans to use it as a patrol vehichle too?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

Damn I was getting my hopes up for the Navy.


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080505/mniesweeper_080505/20080505?hub=TopStories

Canadian Forces to buy more minesweepers: report
Updated Mon. May. 5 2008 7:25 AM ET
The Canadian Press
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- National Defence is looking to buy more specialized armoured vehicles to detect roadside bombs, the biggest scourge facing troops in Afghanistan, The Canadian Press has learned.
The army is drawing up a proposal to purchase as many as 30 vehicles for both overseas and training duty, say senior Defence sources in Ottawa.
"Commander CEFCOM (Canadian Expeditionary Force) is asking for greater capacity,'' said a source who has seen the planning. "We're interested in buying larger numbers so we have more deployable sets.''
The Expedient Route Opening Capability system -- known by its acronym EROC -- involves three vehicles working in tandem to sweep roadways before the arrival of combat or supply convoys.
The Defence sources, who spoke on the condition of not being named, said last week that the proposal involves buying 10 more EROC sets sometime in the near future.
The Canadian army already has five sets -- or 15 trucks in total -- that were purchased from the U.S. Marine Corps last spring. It will not say how many of them are deployed in Afghanistan.
The plan for additional mine clearance vehicles is being drawn up by the army's land staff division, but has yet to be approved by the Conservative government.
"We haven't gone to government to ask permission yet, but it's one of those things we're going to have to do,'' the source said.
The purchase is expected to run in the range of $60-million.
Parliament's extension of the mission in southern Afghanistan has sent military planners into an inventory frenzy. They're trying to determine what equipment needs replacing, upgrading, or augmentation in order to carry on the mission until 2011.
The vast majority of the 82 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan have died in roadside bombings -- or improvised explosive device (IED) attacks.
Field engineers, who operate the EROC vehicles, gave the proposal an enthusiastic thumbs-up.
"The IED threat in Kandahar is great,'' said Capt. Rob Horton, 35, operations officer of 12 Field Squadron, based in Edmonton. "And if we are going to put a vehicle on the road and the vehicle affords our operators blast protection from Point A to Point B and potentially (explode) an IED and not get seriously injured, that is something we are interested in.''
Horton, who sees reports from all road crews, says they've found and disposed of a number of roadside bombs using the system, but for security reasons wouldn't say how many.
Sgt. Tim McCormick, 37, recently led a team of eight engineers down a particularly dodgy stretch of road when their Buffalo -- one of three in the EROC chain -- struck a powerful roadside bomb.
A few months ago, he had survived a previous, smaller blast in a LAV III armoured vehicle, which combat engineers drove before the specialized trucks were purchased.
When McCormick recently hit the second bigger bomb, the first thought that went through his mind was: ''Grab the seat!''
Once everything settled down, he cursed, jumped out and went looking for other mines "as if nothing had happened.''
McCormick said he was skeptical of the vehicles at first, partly because they seem to take forever to get anywhere, but the bomb strike made him in an instant convert.
"They save lives, they increase the confidence level of the troops doing this stuff and it makes it easier to screw off the IEDs that've been planted for us to step on,'' said McCormick, 37, who is based in Edmonton.
He then added at the end of the interview: "They need to buy more vehicles and they should stop thinking about it.''
The first Canadian deaths attributed to IEDs happened outside of Kabul on Oct. 2, 2003 when a lightly protected Iltis jeep rolled over a mine, killing Sgt. Robert Short and Cpl. Robbie Beerenfenger.  Since then, the army has scrambled to provide more heavily armoured vehicles for soldiers and better detection capabilities.
The U.S., bloodied by five years of fighting in Iraq, leads the way in both technology and proven equipment.  When NATO took over operational command in southern Afghanistan, American mine-clearing trucks became less available, forcing Canada to purchase its own in the spring of last year.
The Defence sources in Ottawa acknowledge the vehicles in theatre have been beaten up, but are continuing to prove their worth every day.
"They've taken a pounding, but they're designed to go out and take a pounding and clear routes and not have the LAV targeted -- or so other less protected vehicles,'' the Defence source said. 
In road clearance operations, three different vehicles -- the Husky, the Buffalo and the Cougar -- work as a team to uncover mines and booby traps buried in dirt roads or tunnelled in beside paved highways.
The Husky, which looks like a souped-up road grader, uses metal detectors to stop the often home-made weapons and can even X-ray the ground once it's detected something. After marking the location, the Buffalo moves into place with a digging arm to remove -- or detonate -- the threat, while the Cougar acts as a command vehicle.


----------



## PuckChaser

We can cross our fingers for them, but since CEFCOM is still only "drawing up a prosposal", we'll have 5 years to wait before they get here.


----------



## McG

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> We can cross our fingers for them, but since CEFCOM is still only "drawing up a prosposal", we'll have 5 years to wait before they get here.


It only took about 1.5 years from the time of the first request until we had them in Kandahar.  Why are you so pessimistic?  



			
				Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> He then added at the end of the interview: "They need to buy more vehicles and they should stop thinking about it.''


I'm sure there is value in more vehicles, but at a certain point there is nobody left to crew them.


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Are these the same vehicles that the Marines ordered for Iraq and now think they may have to many? Would we be buying the surplus they don't need but have already ordered?


----------



## geo

Well.... If they are, I guess that means we should be able to get immediate delivery.... and that's a good thing


----------



## NL_engineer

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> We can cross our fingers for them, but since CEFCOM is still only "drawing up a prosposal", we'll have 5 years to wait before they get here.



I heard somewhere that they are being purchased through the USMC and US Army, as they have existing contracts with the contractor.


And those looking for more info http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-army-eroc-route-openers.htm


----------



## McG

More information on EROC and a few other capabilities here: http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/72738.0.html


----------



## PuckChaser

MCG said:
			
		

> It only took about 1.5 years from the time of the first request until we had them in Kandahar.  Why are you so pessimistic?
> I'm sure there is value in more vehicles, but at a certain point there is nobody left to crew them.



Well the first procurement was pretty much an emergency requirement which got expedited through the redtape. 1.5 years would be great to see for a delivery time, but the Army is the Army.


----------



## aussiechangover

these are pretty impressive vechiles, i've been lucky enough to work with the buffalo and cougar installing various components on them. only heard one report of a buffalo hitting an IED with the spork to detonate it causing minor damage but have to admit it's huge and for the days when it was here we were all dwarfed by it sitting in the shop.


----------



## GUNS

Do we have any of these?


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Yes


----------



## GUNS

I heard the vehicle mentioned and checked the DND website to see what it looked like.
It is not on the DND website, must be new inventory.
Google searched for pic.


----------



## Nfld Sapper

Yes GUNS they are very new so they won't be on the equipment list.


----------



## geo

Heh...saw a couple driving around in Longue Pointe last fall..... "student driver" yellow signs at either end.... Yowze they're big.


----------



## GUNS

With a price tag of nearly $1,000,000 each, they should be big but mostly safe.


----------



## geo

mostly safe till someone decides he reall, but REALLY wants to bust it.... then it'll bust - like everything else.


----------



## Spencer100

Yes but real question is will it "Transform" into a decepticon?   ;D


----------

