# Loss of PMQ's, lack of PLD



## copper (26 Jan 2005)

Over the last few years a number of the larger bases have been clearing out the old PMQ's. Members are being strongly encouraged to seek accommodations on the economy.   On the surface this was supposed to save big bucks for the Military.   Unfortunately all this did was cause landowners / developers / renters to jack prices through the roof.   I recently went to a career managers brief in Borden, it was a topic on many minds that they could not afford to be posted because they could not financially afford to qualify to purchase a home or rent in an area near the base.   The Post Living Differential Allowance (PLD) is supposed to off set these costs but it is unable to keep up with the rise in the market as landowners selling in regions like Wainwright jack up the costs in anticipation of the base expansion.   
I think the PLD, long in coming, was a good thing, unfortunately I now see it as another outlet for someone to cut costs by lowering it on an annual basis.   I queried this when the cost of living was reportedly going up in my region and my PLD was going down for the second year in a row, I was told that Stats Can tables were used in the process to determin the rates for each area, in consideration on what was happening in relation to the rest of the country, when asked which Stats Can Tables were used I was not even given the courtesy of a reply. Nor is it posted as to where the information is drawn.


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## Inch (26 Jan 2005)

First, it's call Post Living Differential or PLD not PDA (that means public display of attention). It's not all that new, before PLD there was Accommodation Assistance Allowance or AAA. There were some reforms made to AAA and it became PLD.

My PLD actually went up last summer from $146 to $192 here in Halifax.

I not too sure what your point is exactly, the first buy will be tough, but even for the first buy, IRP pays for all the big expenses like realty fees when you sell, welcome/land transfer tax when you buy and all the legal fees for both transactions. Couple that with your posting allowance being used to buy down your interest rate and you can make off like a bandit. I got a 4.25% 5 year mortgage, if I was married and got the full month's pay, I could have bought it under 4%. 

The only way sellers and land lords can jack the prices up is if people pay for it. So don't blame the sellers, blame the people that buy or rent and pay those kind of prices. The housing market in most areas is a sellers market right now, they get what they want and usually more. When interest rates go up, it'll shift back to a buyers market where you'll offer a price and they'll take it.


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Jan 2005)

Inch granted.  However if you've already moved into a PMQ and then into a house a little while later IRP does nothing for you.  At least that was my understanding moving from Wpg to Shithole, I mean Shilo.


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## Inch (27 Jan 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> Inch granted.   However if you've already moved into a PMQ and then into a house a little while later IRP does nothing for you.   At least that was my understanding moving from Wpg to Shithole, I mean Shilo.



I'm pretty sure you have up to a year after you're posted to still get your entitlement. Beyond that, you're right, you lose it until your next posting.


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## Armymedic (27 Jan 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> Inch granted.   However if you've already moved into a PMQ and then into a house a little while later IRP does nothing for you.   At least that was my understanding moving from Wpg to Shithole, I mean Shilo.



As I might get posted to Shilo this yr (my parents family farm is 2 hrs west), how is the PMQ's? I understand they built a whole bunch of new ones. How's the market in Brandon, Wawanesa, Carberry triangle?

BTW from my point of view, Brandon is lightyears ahead of Pembroke....


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## buzgo (27 Jan 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure you have up to a year after you're posted to still get your entitlement. Beyond that, you're right, you lose it until your next posting.



I think that if you don't take advantage of the benefits, they ask you if you want to take a cash out. If you take that, you are screwed and won't get any help if you decide to move out of the Q's down the road.


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## Wizard of OZ (27 Jan 2005)

PMQ's don't even belong to the military anymore the belong to CFHA a civilian run (for Profit) orginization.  Why are they getting rid of them?  Simpel the cost to upgrade or maintain them is enormus.  They can sell them as cottages for about 50,000 for some and they just do it.  

They don't care how much it cost to live out on the civi side.  Barracks are full and the Q's are empty cause people pay more in rent for a Q in Edmonton then they would for a morgate payment.  It is ridiculous.

Should be more along the line of the US military when it comes to living on base.


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Jan 2005)

I'm not sure what they sell them for but I know the companies that bought them up and did a little work to them are making a fortune. $90,000 and up in Wpg and I've heard close to $200,000 for the ones in Edmonton by Greisbaugh (sp).

Armymedic sorry to hear that although I'm not sure how great Pembroke would have been either.  I will PM you with what I have experieced in Shilo thus far.


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## buzgo (27 Jan 2005)

I'm not really sure why you would want to live in a PMQ to begin with, unless absolutely neccessary. I lived in the apartments in Petawawa and I will never (if I can help it) live in military housing again. If you can afford it, get out of there! 

I want to know why the PLD doesn't seem to reflect the actual cost of living for the various cities. I live in Ottawa and I get roughly $136 a month for PLD. Someone in Esquimalt gets $395. GUELPH gets $333. 

Explain that one!


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## Wizard of OZ (27 Jan 2005)

CFL said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what they sell them for but I know the companies that bought them up and did a little work to them are making a fortune. $90,000 and up in Wpg and I've heard close to $200,000 for the ones in Edmonton by Greisbaugh (sp).
> 
> Armymedic sorry to hear that although I'm not sure how great Pembroke would have been either.   I will PM you with what I have experieced in Shilo thus far.



yea those are the ones that Canada Lands moved into neighbourhoods and but a fresh coat of paint on.  the old two bedroom ones.  It is freakin ridiculous.  

Edmonton gets no PLD so cry me a river.


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## Strike (27 Jan 2005)

Armymedic,

If you want an idea about the market check out www.mls.ca 

Great site and really lets you get some research done before your HHT.  I know where you're coming from wrt high prices.  Don't be afraid to look a little outside of town.  Brand-new house in Pet will easily run 150.  Go a little out of town to Chark River and the same thing a few years older has dropped to 120.  If you don't care if your home still has the "new" smell you can go a little further.  Bought my place in Deep for under 100.  Point is, so you have to drive 20-30 minutes to get to work.  If anything, it gives you time to unwind after work.


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Jan 2005)

xxx


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## Garry (28 Jan 2005)

The PMQ's in Cold Lake that were sold went for one dollar each.

PMQ living was great. You could walk home from the Mess (big bonus), and walk/ride a bike to work. The neighbours knew the score, and the wives helped each other out when we were deployed. One big happy family- no joke.

Unfortunately, the huge raises in rent made in untenable to live in MQ's. My house is twice the size of my old PMQ, and it costs half as much to heat. The rent was about the same as my mortgage.

Beyond me why the Military let CFHA into the game.

Cheers-Garry


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## pbi (28 Jan 2005)

In the long term, DND intends to get out of the housing game completely, except for those very few locations that we still class as "isolated". The theory (IIRC) is that military personnel will be paid adequately (including allowances) to allow them to buy/rent in a manner equivalent to what a civilian of the same income bracket would be able to do. The fact that so few of us RegF people live in MQs anymore (historically only around 30%, IIRC) really doesn't put much pressure on DND to do anything more than what they are doing now.

Of course, there are problems with this: if you are fortunate to live in a place like Winnipeg, you can get a nice place in a good neighborhood in the 120k range, with lots of choice as to where you want to live. However, if you are posted to a smaller community with less available housing stock (Brandon, Pet-Pembroke, Wainwright) or a very expensive urban centre (Vancouver, T.O., Ottawa) then IMHO this theory starts to unravel.

The US has a different approach: their MQs are free, and if you live off you get a PLD that will actually go a long way towards a rental or mortgage payment. Most of our PLD rates won't even fill a grocery cart.

Cheers.


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## Scoobie Newbie (28 Jan 2005)

Thanks for that pbi


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## Radop (29 Jan 2005)

Wizard of OZ said:
			
		

> PMQ's don't even belong to the military anymore the belong to CFHA a civilian run (for Profit) orginization.   Why are they getting rid of them?   Simpel the cost to upgrade or maintain them is enormus.   They can sell them as cottages for about 50,000 for some and they just do it.
> 
> They don't care how much it cost to live out on the civi side.   Barracks are full and the Q's are empty cause people pay more in rent for a Q in Edmonton then they would for a morgate payment.   It is ridiculous.


Our friend is the CFHA Housing Officer on base here.  She is told by the military what the rate hikes are, who can live were and what gets torn down.  She proposed two units get torn down as they were infested with ants and termites.  Instead, they told them to tear down two other row houses and now there is only one family left in the infested Q.  Doesn't make sense to me.  When people come to her about military policies regarding Q, she sends them to base.  They turn around and say that the military has no say in what CFHA does.  Pass the buck seems to be the order of the day here and elsewhere.    Lets try and purchase the Qs ourselves and fix them the way we want.  Could be a way to support the men and get out of the housing industry.


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## Daidalous (27 Sep 2005)

They really need to sort out the PLD.  I got very little in Borden,  I think it was around $80 a month.  I move to Trenton and I get $0.   Correct me if I am wrong,  but iIheard once that PLD  is calculated by the cost of the area verus  the average income for the base.    I guess all of the Aircrew and spec  trades  raise it a bit.


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