# Chiropractic, Massage and Osteopathy



## MissMercury (23 Feb 2018)

Hey All, I did a quick search but couldn't find anything current here. I'm looking for information on Policies with regards to coverage for Massage, Chiropractic and/or Osteopathic treatments. Must I get a referral from my MO to have these covered? What are the "hoops" I need to jump through in order to have these covered? TIA


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## Humphrey Bogart (23 Feb 2018)

MissMercury said:
			
		

> Hey All, I did a quick search but couldn't find anything current here. I'm looking for information on Policies with regards to coverage for Massage, Chiropractic and/or Osteopathic treatments. Must I get a referral from my MO to have these covered? What are the "hoops" I need to jump through in order to have these covered? TIA



My understanding is Blue Cross covers 10 chiropractic sessions with an option for up to 10 more on recommendation from the Chiropractor.  Getting seen though requires a referral from an MO.

Here is what I did: made a doctors appointment and asked for Chiro.  The MOs will try and push you to physio because we have them available; however, if you press for Chiro, they will send you.

I did Physio but got to the point where I didn't see any more progress and really just needed some work done on some hard to reach areas around my SI Joint.  The Chiro was great for that.

Massage is not covered which is too bad because a lot of what physio prescribes is self-massage/myofascial release.  A lot of back problems actually stem from problems either in the hips or shoulder blades.  If you have pain in the lumbar region, a lot of cases actually stem from tight psoas muscles which attach your hips to your lower back and if they are tight, rotate your pelvis forward which puts pressure on your discs.


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## Strike (23 Feb 2018)

Osteopaths are covered with a referral from the MO.  I'm scheduled to see one in April.


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## mariomike (23 Feb 2018)

MissMercury said:
			
		

> I'm looking for information on Policies with regards to coverage for Massage, Chiropractic and/or Osteopathic treatments.



Out-Patient services of the following practitioners when prescribed by the attending physician, within the limits as follows:
1.physiotherapist (20 appointments); 
2.speech language pathologist (10 appointments); 
3.psychologist (10 appointments); 
4.chiropractor (10 appointments); 
5.osteopath (10 appointments); 
6.dietary counselor (5 appointments); 
7.acupuncture, when in conjunction with pain management or when used as an adjunct to treatment of substance dependence (10 appointments); and 
8.podiatrist or chiropodist (5 appointments). 

Note: Physicians can authorize attendance as indicated, per condition, after which physician follow up of each case is required to ensure that care is progressing and to determine whether further care is required. Patient care, rather than monetary limits per se, will be the determining factor.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-health-services-benefits-drug-coverage/comprehensive-medical-care.page#health-practitioner

Medical Services Excluded from Entitlement

"massage therapy (except for still serving VAC pensioned members who were already medically assessed and found eligible for the treatment in 2013 according to the direction given in CFHS Instruction 5010-13 "Delivery of Pension-Related Health Benefits"); 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-health-services-benefits-drug-coverage/excluded-medical-dental-services.page


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## MissMercury (26 Feb 2018)

Thanks All. Super Helpful!


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## 306FL306 (10 Mar 2018)

Hi everyone

I have a Bachelor's Degree in Exercise Physiology with minors in Nutrition and Psychology, a Master's Degree in Neuromuscular Physiology, and a PhD in Toxicology. Also, I am a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) and owned a training/rehabilitation business for 6 years besides having worked at a Cardiac and Pulmonary Rehabilitation Unit at a major hospital.

I'm just going to state scientific facts here.

There are millions of reasons why chiropractic, massage therapy, and osteopathy are known as "pseudo medicine" and regarded as "alternative medicine".

Chiropractic is not a science. If you want to go ahead and use their services I wish you all the best but I would stay away from that if I were you. The claims these individuals make are NOT backed by QUALITY scientific studies. The things they do (cracking joints, manipulation, etc) are CANNOT be demonstrated to change ANY measurable physiological outcomes.

Osteopathy... same thing!

Massage therapy does bring relief to muscular pain in most people who undergo treatment even though they do not address the cause of the pain.

My suggestion to everyone I ever came across is a combination of physiotherapy and exercise therapy to address the causes of your discomfort/medical issues with a little bit of massage therapy (for a few sessions) just to bring some relief.

Best wishes to you all!


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## Blackadder1916 (10 Mar 2018)

306FL306 said:
			
		

> I'm just going to state scientific facts here.



Okay, we're waiting.

Or are we simply to accept your views (along with wishes and suggestions) that those alternative therapies have absolutely no scientific basis.  Usually when someone comes on these means and say they are making statements of fact we sorta expect some references to back up their claims.



_Now, to be honest, I've never used the services of a chiropractor or osteopath and any visits to massage practitioners have not been strictly for medical reasons  .  I am sceptical of most alternative therapies.  However, I am also sceptical of those who make proclamations (claiming such to be "scientific fact") without providing evidence. _


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## 306FL306 (10 Mar 2018)

For sure. 

I'll just spit out everything that is available on Pubmed, Medline and other databases right now because you're waiting.

All the best to you!


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## mariomike (10 Mar 2018)

306FL306 said:
			
		

> Massage therapy does bring relief to muscular pain in most people who undergo treatment even though they do not address the cause of the pain.



I have been an RMT client for over forty years. I originally went to relieve back pain, but I soon discovered the relaxation benefit.

I believe it has improved my quality of life.

A weekly massage may seem an indulgence, but I believe in the benefits of regular sessions for one's physical and mental well-being. Especially when combined with an exercise program. 
Preventative maintenance helps - especially as you get older. 

I have always stuck with the same RMT. Like your work partner, it takes time to get into a good routine.

The RMT I have been going to in recent years is a lady from Japan. She is amazing. 

Sessions are typically one-hour. Sometimes I book a 45 minute session. 

As an employee and post-retirement benefit, I believe it improves morale. I'm retired, but still go regularly.

If you can find the right RMT for you, I would highly recommend it. No regrets from this satisfied client!


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## BeyondTheNow (11 Mar 2018)

306FL306,

Quite the credentials. Good for you. 

I’m skeptical of ANYone who touts their superior (scientific) education as the be-all-and-end-all of the medical world. Especially when there are countless medical Dr’s with education matching yours (and in some instances more advanced) who acknowledge that in many instances alternative medicine has accomplished what they and their strictly scientific methods/medicine could not. 

After almost 18mths combined of physio, X-rays, bone scans, a contrast MRI, and other visits to specialists, my Dr referring me to an Osteopath was a god-send. In his first visit he was able to diagnose a severe structural issue that all other Dr.’s had somehow missed entirely. He listed his findings and had them sent to my Dr. Immediately, an entirely new path of treatment and rehabilitation was established and although I’m still not 100% percent, it begs the question of how long my recovery was set back due to mis-diagnoses. So please—get off your high-horse and stop turning your nose down at what you think to be inferior methods of treatment, more over, quit spouting to others that they ought not to keep an open mind towards alternative medicine. I also have other friends in CAF and policing who swear by Osteo for treatment of a wide variety of injuries.

No, I’m not one of those severely uninformed anti-vaxxers or those who completely snub their noses at modern medicine. However, I strongly believe they can work in conjunction with each other quite effectively.


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## 306FL306 (11 Mar 2018)

Amazing... nothing but amazing...

When I taught at university and explained to students why alternative medicine is called alternative and why certain practices are called pseudo-science it was the begining of a great interaction. They researched reasons to support and reasons to dismiss these practices. 

When i taught non-university post-secondary “students” the same exact thing, their reactions were the same exact reactions I got here: “get off your high horse... stop telling people what you do not believe in... prove it... shiw us what you have learned in 12 years right now...” Nothing but violent opposition right off the bat. Instead of saying “i disagree bc of my personal experiences.... people may call it pseudo but they helped me a lot.”

I can tell it is impossible for some people to hear/read something they disagree with and move on. 

I never TOLD anyone to stop what they are doing immediately... i never TOLD anyone to obey me because of my education... i just posted the very short version of what is available in the relevant literature and was told to get off ny high-horse. 

Adaptability is not a skill you can learn. You’re either born with it or you’re not. 

We can only offer what we have. When only anger is available, only anger can be offered.


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## BeyondTheNow (11 Mar 2018)

306FL306 said:
			
		

> Amazing... nothing but amazing...
> 
> When I taught at university and explained to students why alternative medicine is called alternative and why certain practices are called pseudo-science it was the begining of a great interaction. They researched reasons to support and reasons to dismiss these practices.
> 
> ...



Perhaps it is your approach you need to work on. You came to a thread which was created for the sole purpose of the OP asking for coverage information within CAF on specific treatment options available and decided to give your 2 cents about those options in general, supposedly supported by your never-ending resume of brag-worthy experience and training, which you felt necessary to also include in your rebuttal. 

Your post did absolutely nothing to aid the initial subject matter/query and, yes, your tone and content was subtly irritating and had a distinct scent of snobbery to it. You interjected your personal opinion and agenda where is wasn’t necessary and/or relevant and continue to pour out your air of superiority when users aren’t particularly fond of the manner in which you offered your thoughts. 

So, if you automatically determine that what you’re encountering right now is anger, then you need to step back and evaluate/review how sensitive you might be to people expressing their thoughts in exchange to your own. Because there was absolutely zero anger in my post, and I certainly didn’t interpret anger from any other users either. Annoyance from me? Yes. And if you take THAT personally, well, that’s something you need to sort through on your own. 

If you wish to debate medical science vs pseudo-science and alternative treatments, then start a new topic in the appropriate category.


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## 306FL306 (11 Mar 2018)

all the best to you.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Mar 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I have been an RMT client for over forty years. I originally went to relieve back pain, but I soon discovered the relaxation benefit.
> 
> I believe it has improved my quality of life.
> 
> ...



I get ashiatsu/ thai every week for an hour. The decrease in my pain and increase in my mobility has been great.


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## mariomike (11 Mar 2018)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I get ashiatsu/ thai every week for an hour. The decrease in my pain and increase in my mobility has been great.



I had to look ashiatsu up. I've never had that. ( Or Thai, for that matter. ) 

I would love to try ashiatsu ( my RMT is Japanese: ashi for foot and atsu for pressure ), but unfortunately I don't see any parallel bars.


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## Loachman (11 Mar 2018)

306FL306 said:
			
		

> all the best to you.



Your bedside keyboardside manner sucks.

You owe BeyondTheNow an apology, and it should be much more eloquent than your arrogant insult.

I took my wife to many, many visits to specialist after specialist over a three-year period with failure after failure to correctly diagnose or treat her condition until we finally received a referral to the best chronic pain doctor in the world in Kingston. Unlike the others, his unconventional yet simple treatments worked.

This experience gave me a considerable insight into the medical industry, made me sceptical of much of modern medicine and its practitioners, and showed that non-standard/alternative methods frequently achieve significant results that regular doctors do not.

All the best to you.

And, moreso, to your patients.


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## Blackadder1916 (11 Mar 2018)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I had to look ashiatsu up.



I thought it was a small Japanese automobile.  Especially since he said it increased his mobility.


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## Fishbone Jones (11 Mar 2018)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> I thought it was a small Japanese automobile.  Especially since he said it increased his mobility.



I can't get into a small Japanese vehicle 

Ashiatsu allows much more pressure. She can do with a big toe, what an elbow typically does. The thai side is some pretty stong bends and twists she puts me through while on the table for my knees, hips and such.


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## Downhiller229 (11 Mar 2018)

306FL306 said:
			
		

> Amazing... nothing but amazing...
> 
> When I taught at university and explained to students why alternative medicine is called alternative and why certain practices are called pseudo-science it was the begining of a great interaction. They researched reasons to support and reasons to dismiss these practices.
> 
> ...



It's funny, I have a relatively similar education as you but perhaps a different walk of life, I wouldn't tend to agree with you. In fact, I was recently discussing the benefits of chiropractic treatment with one of the CF orthopaedic surgeons. 

Interestingly enough as much as there isn't much research supporting the treatments you identified as pseudoscience there isn't much research supporting back pain treatment in general. Right up to surgery. Amazingly we can't seem to pinpoint what causes non traumatic chronic back pain hence how difficult it is to gather data for effective treatment. 

In my previous life I used to work with athletes in rehab after a variety of injuries. While under the care of the most qualified doctors in Canada they would also be treated by a multidisciplinary team of chiros, osteopaths, Physios and other professionals. In an extreme  example it's easy to claim that michael phelps' famous cupping treatment is based on baloney. However it's hard to argue with his gold medals! Now, of course he's not a venerable medical professional, however it's probably fair to say he knows his body and knows what works for him. And there is absolutely no arguing that. 

As (ex) medical/rehab pros we owe it to our patients that we explore all available avenues to help them get back to full function. I'm not talking mushroom potions, but interestingly enough there are several doctors who prescribe marijuana in this country while standing on very limited evidence to its effectiveness.     

I appreciate that you might have an opinion on the subject but it certainly came across as preaching. 

I suggest you interact more with patients of chiros and osteopaths to give you a bit more "ground level" experience.


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## Strike (12 Mar 2018)

Wow.  Where to start.

Yes, chiropractic, massage, osteopathy and acupuncture are all considered pseudo-science.  Yes, studies have been done on the efficacy of acupuncture and shown no noticeable benefit in the long term.  Yes, there are some chiropractors out there who genuinely believe that a neck adjustment will protect a person from the flu.

But not all chiros et al. are full of woo and genuinely want to help.  And a very many of them (especially in Canada where things are regulated a bit more) work in partnership with medical doctors and physiotherapists in an effort to provide a well rounded treatment plan.

As Downhiller229 stated, there are so many variations of back pain that there really aren't enough studies out there to determine any one best treatment.  I am dealing with miofascial chronic lower back pain and have been for a year and a half now.  I have been waiting to get in to see the chronic pain doc (the same one Loachman's wife has seen) since October.  I have tried physio and it just made me worse.  I am limited in what exercises I can do.  Anything water based lays me up for two weeks, I can't do anything high impact and can't do any major weights so I'm pretty much limited to walking for 15 minutes and stretching.  I used to run half marathons.  I am on pain/anti-depressant medication and that does very little for the pain itself.

So, with all your schooling and experience, what would you recommend?  That I just suck it up and live with it?  Or are you going to tell me it's all in my head because it's miofascial?

People go to chiropractors and osteopaths because they are at the end of their rope and are not getting results.  Instead of poo-pooing people who do this, perhaps an internal look at the medical system is in order and maybe ask why the medical system would rather keep pushing medication instead of trying to find the source of people's pain and fix it if they can.

I would just be happy if someone could tell me WHY this has happened to me.  But I'm thankful that my current doctor is doing her best to try everything available to her in my treatment.


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