# Afghanistan - This is very disappointing if true....



## Cdn Blackshirt (17 Jul 2006)

> http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1181612.ece
> 
> From "The Independent" - Fury as Karzai plans return of Taliban's religious police
> By Tom Coghlan in Kabul
> ...


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## Gunnar (17 Jul 2006)

Think of where and when you are....this is probably an attempt to inculcate real Islamic values by using a recognized means of enforcement...note that the accent is on "encouragement", and these guys won't have the legal power to beat people up.  There are parallels even in Saudi Arabia, and in Western society....when society goes to hell in a handcart, some elements tout the return to some sort of religious standard to re-establish proper behaviour.  It may also be a way for Karzai to get his own spies out into the world, and into every facet of day to day life.

Will it remain as I perceive that it has been envisioned?  Probably not.  Given the where and when they are, there will be excesses, and cronyism will destroy any possibility of this being a neutral council of "encouragement"...

I guess all I'm saying is that for the Afghans, it might not be such a bad idea in principle, but taking into account the social and philosophical level of achievement of that area of the world, you're probably right.


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## Hoover (17 Jul 2006)

Afghanistan is a free country who has elected a free democratic leader who is capable of making choices on behalf of the people. This is a problem for Afghanis to sort out not wannabe internet politicians.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Jul 2006)

Hoover said:
			
		

> Afghanistan is a free country who has elected a free democratic leader who is capable of making choices on behalf of the people. This is a problem for Afghanis to sort out not wannabe internet politicians.




Watch your mouth. They're free to discuss anything they wish about it. Don't like it, don't read it, or you can just leave. BTW, Afghanis are monetary units Afghans are a people.

Seems you haven't learned from the last time. Here's a reminder.


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## Gunnar (17 Jul 2006)

> Afghanistan is a free country who has elected a free democratic leader who is capable of making choices on behalf of the people. This is a problem for Afghanis to sort out not wannabe internet politicians.



Canada is a free country, which has free citizens, who are capable of discussing any decision, being taken world-wide, and assessing its relative likelyhood of success.  The free election of politicians anywhere doesn't mean they can't do stupid things, or be called on it...that's democracy, and the freedom to express opinions.  The freedom to express opinions is the cornerstone of a free and democratic country, particularly as it relates to politics.  Your heavy-handed attempt to terminate discussion on topics you do not support is largely a statement of "I don't agree with you", without any data to back up your opinion.  How can you be truly supportive of a free and democratic form of government if you do not support the underpinnings thereof?

In any case, the error of your ways has been explained to you in more forceful terms.  I am attempting to provide enlightenment on the basic contradiction inherent in your attempting to shut down a free discussion to support freedom and democracy.  Next, you'll be saying the government should have the right to detain people without due process in order to preserve their freedom....

Cheers!


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## Zell_Dietrich (17 Jul 2006)

I hope that the new morality police... err... thought police.... um... religious advisers don't conduct themselves the same way as they did under the Taliban rule.  I wonder how they will choose to interpret/enforce the rules of the Koran. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have uptight people running around DT Toronto telling people not to spit, litter, to get up an offer your seat on the subway and to move over when walking on the sidewalk - to make room.  But then I remember what happens every time politicians get involved with religion.  If you defy them you're not just wrong,  you're immoral!  You don't support this certain politician you're not supporting God.  Blah blah blah.  Comming from a Western country I'm kind of allergic to the idea of people going around saying what is allowed and what isn't under a religion.  With that said,  yes the people of Afghanistan have elected a leader,  yes they may do what they like in their own country.... but they are still struggling against outside influences (I'm referring to the other nationalities that have gone to Afghanistan to build a Fundamentalist country)


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## bison33 (17 Jul 2006)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Watch your mouth. They're free to discuss anything they wish about it. Don't like it, don't read it, or you can just leave. BTW, Afghanis are monetary units Afghans are a people.
> 
> Seems you haven't learned from the last time. Here's a reminder.



actually recceeguy....Afghan people can be referred to as Afghanis..Afghans or Afghani...as Afghani is the currency...afghanis is just the plural form....like dollar, dollars.....ask an Afghani this, they will tell you...like were were told while doing yet another wasteful week of PSO trg.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Jul 2006)

I was told the way I posted, by my interpreters. I tended to believe them more than the dweebs that were telling us stuff back in Canada. Some of whom had never been outside continental North America. Potatos- potahtoes. I'll stick with what the natives told me.


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## GAP (17 Jul 2006)

> Afghanis are monetary units Afghans are a people.



So let me get this straight. I think I have been doing it wrong.

When I checked the conversion charts they refered the Afghanistan monetary unit as Afghans(not that they necessarily have it right), but the Afghanistan people refer to it as Afghanis, singular and plural? 

The people are are only referred to as Afghans?   Is that correct?


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## bison33 (17 Jul 2006)

recceguy said:
			
		

> I was told the way I posted, by my interpreters. I tended to believe them more than the dweebs that were telling us stuff back in Canada. Some of whom had never been outside continental North America. Potatos- potahtoes. I'll stick with what the natives told me.



I hear ya there recceeguy...the gal we had doing cultural awareness was Afghani, hence a native.....so I have no reason not to believe her. But she did say that they usally are referred to as Afghani, though she said afghanis, afghans is fine.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Jul 2006)

CIA World Fact Book

Afghans - people
Afghani - currency.

Whatever, call em what you want.


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## COBRA-6 (17 Jul 2006)

Afghans = people
Afghanis = currency

was told this by my interpreter and several Afghan Government officials...


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## KevinB (18 Jul 2006)

Well the Police have raided a number of bars and "Chinese Restraunts" recently...

They smashed up a bar owned by a guy i used to work with.


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## GAP (18 Jul 2006)

Worried about the type of activity the "religious police" will have in Afghanistan? Don't, they're right here too !!!

Kosher butcher loses licence
Tue Jul 18 2006   By Alexandra Paul MIKE APORIUS / WINNIPEG FREE PRESS 
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/local/story/3596886p-4157555c.html

Dietary dispute will affect observant Jews in Winnipeg 

Omnitsky Kosher Foods owner Sam Gekht points out meat stamped as kosher at his Main Street shop.    
  
WINNIPEG'S last kosher butcher just isn't kosher enough for the people in charge of Jewish dietary laws. 
North End institution Omnitsky Kosher Foods, one of the last kosher butchers in Western Canada, has been stripped of its licence to sell fresh beef in a dispute with the Vaad Ha'ir, the group that designates foods as kosher. 

The impasse leaves an estimated thousand or so customers, mostly elderly, observant Jews, without a source for fresh kosher beef. 

Neither Omnitsky nor Vaad Ha'ir -- affectionately known as the "kosher cops" -- will divulge the precise nature of the dietary dispute. 

"I think it's a big tragedy. Everybody had a choice. What are they going to do now?" wondered one man at Bathurst Street Market, a Jewish deli and store that sells frozen kosher meat shop. 

The deli is sold out of frozen cuts of meat, but plans to close this month because of too little demand    
"It's very serious," said Harry Garfinkel, a member of the conservative Talmud Torah temple. "Now people will have to import their meat from Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver." 

Over the last decade or two, religious Jews, mostly younger families, have switched to suppliers in other parts of Canada who observe stricter enforcement of kashrut, or Jewish dietary laws, observers including a prominent rabbi said yesterday. 

Winnipeg's Jewish community has shrunk in recent decades, according to various Statistics Canada surveys. Only a minority observe the dietary laws, which include the ritual slaughtering of meat and the removal of as much blood as possible. 

Advocates say the purpose of kashrut is to ensure the meat is clean and free of the taint of disease. Religious authorities also say observing the laws is part of what makes Jews distinct as a people. 

Omnitsky is still selling its fresh beef -- the freezer in the back of the butcher shop is as full as it's ever been since the store first opened in 1922. 

The outraged owner, Sam Gekht, insists his customers are lining up behind him so he can stay in business. And, he says, nothing has changed in the way his butchers handle their meat -- not in the 84 years the shop has served the Jewish public and, increasingly, devoted Muslims, who observe Halal, a similar set of dietary laws. 

On Friday, the dispute between Omnitsky and Vaad Ha'ir came to a head. 

"They came in here and they took the licence right off the wall. It was a shock," the butcher shop owner said. He figured the gesture was a reaction to his decision to reject a new five-year contract with strict new terms. 

The contract contained terms that were radically different from the standards the shop has obeyed for years so he rejected them, the butcher said. 

Vaad posted a newspaper notice about its decision to withdraw its approval from the shop in the Saturday Free Press. It named Omnitsky and saying any beef sold with the Vaad's WK brand after July 14 was "unauthorized" and "invalid." 

"We're being accused of putting them out of business, which is incorrect," Vaad Ha'ir president Don Aronovitch said. 

Aronovitch said tightening up of kosher laws in Jewish communities has been gaining strength in North America. It's just reached a flashpoint in Winnipeg this year. 

Vaad tried to talk Omnitsky into moving with the times but finally just gave up, he said. 

alexandra.paul@freepress.mb.ca


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## Gunnar (18 Jul 2006)

This is admittedly a little different.  The shop advertises itself as being run according to the dictates of religious laws.  The authority which outlines these laws has pulled his certification.  Now, since neither of them will discuss the reason for the dispute, I have a feeling it has to do with non-payment of certification fees, or implementation of "rules" which have nothing to do with the religion, and have everything to do with who owns stock in the remaining competitive companies...However, this is a voluntary arrangement where business is driving the bus.  I'm not Jewish, but couldn't he just get the local rabbi to certify  him?


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## GAP (18 Jul 2006)

Gunnar said:
			
		

> I have a feeling it has to do with non-payment of certification fees, or implementation of "rules" which have nothing to do with the religion.  I'm not Jewish, but couldn't he just get the local rabbi to certify  him?



Winnipeg has a fairly sizable Jewish community, and this type of feud has simmered over the years. No, without the council's approval, no rabbi will touch the issue. It and many other issues are strictly religion based. The one concession I will make, is that the Jewish community keeps it within the Jewish community, but it is a form of religious police.


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## DBA (18 Jul 2006)

There are lots of organizations that certify kosher products. They have varying requirements and levels of oversight. A small list is at http://www.kosherquest.org/index.asp?theaction=symbols#Canada. Customers make the choice of what to buy so it's nothing like a government ministry that has enforcement powers.


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