# Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)



## George Wallace (13 Mar 2016)

This will be interesting to follow:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/john-ridsdel-hostage-trudeau-1.3487367

What has the Trudeau Government done, or plans on doing, about this case that has been put forward to them in NOVEMBER 2015?  We hear all about the plans to bring in 300K migrants, mostly unskilled; but nothing about Canadians held hostage by "TERRORISTS".  I know that SECURITY is an issue in these matters, but there has not even been a hint of acknowledgement by the Government about these Canadians.  Is this another Chretienism: "Ignore it and the problem will go away."?

_- mod edit to adjust thread title to fit latest events -_


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## The Bread Guy (13 Mar 2016)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> ... I know that SECURITY is an issue in these matters, but there has not even been a hint of acknowledgement by the Government about these Canadians ...


True, but not by just this government, other than a "The Department of Foreign Affairs said the federal government is aware of reports that Canadians were kidnapped in the Philippines and is "pursuing all appropriate channels to seek further information." " right after it happened (and I guess shared with the Government of Canada as well) in mid-to-late September.


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## The Bread Guy (25 Apr 2016)

This, from the _Bankgok Post_ ...


> Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau confirmed early Tuesday that the decapitated head of a Caucasian male recovered Monday night in the southern Philippines belongs to one two Canadians taken hostage by Abu Sayyaf militants in September.
> 
> Mr Trudeau identified the victim as John Ridsdel, 68, of Calgary, Alberta. He pledged his government will work with the government of the Philippines and international partners to pursue those responsible for this "heinous act."
> 
> Two men on a motorcycle left Ridsdel's head, placed inside a plastic bag, along a street in Jolo town in Sulu province and then fled, Jolo police chief Supt Junpikar Sitin said ...


... and this from the PM:


> “I am outraged by the news that a Canadian citizen, John Ridsdel, held hostage in the Philippines since September 21, 2015, has been killed at the hands of his captors.
> 
> “Canada condemns without reservation the brutality of the hostage-takers, and this unnecessary death. This was an act of cold-blooded murder and responsibility rests squarely with the terrorist group who took him hostage.
> 
> ...


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## brihard (25 Apr 2016)

Anyone who believes nothing was being done about this is wrong. Unfortunately, sometimes the bad guys win.

When Canadian nationals are kidnapped overseas there are people whose job it is to work the file, but in most cases we will never hear about it and for good reasons.


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## The Bread Guy (25 Apr 2016)

A bit more detail ...


> ... Gar Pardy, former head of consular services at the department of foreign affairs, now known as Global Affairs Canada, said governments always say they will not negotiate with terrorist groups and foreign criminals who kidnap their citizens. “But the simple rule is: you always pay,” he said. “It’s as simple as that.”
> 
> There was reason for hope. Earlier this month, Abu Sayyaf released an Italian missionary taken in a separate kidnapping after receiving a ransom of $630,000. So why not Ridsdel?
> 
> ...


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## RedcapCrusader (25 Apr 2016)

I just find it very odd that Canadian media was having a heyday over Mohamed Fahmy; demanding to have the government "do more" for his release and "do more" for the return of Omar Khadr. Media outlets demanded to know exactly what the Govt was doing and how much it was involved in returning these two to Canada.

However...

When these two gentlemen got captured, it seemed only one article was published stating they were captured, and now one to say that there had been a murder.

Nothing to say that the GoC was aware and working on it, and no media pressure demanding more be done and more info be given to the public. Nothing.


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## dapaterson (25 Apr 2016)

State vs non-state actors.  It's easy to put public pressure on a government; not so easy to pressure a terrorist group.

See also Lang and Fowler.


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## Pieman (26 Apr 2016)

I hope they send in a certain group of ours to hunt these people down. Canadians should be the ones pulling the trigger on these men as an answer to their actions.


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## The Bread Guy (26 Apr 2016)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> When these two gentlemen got captured, it seemed only one article was published stating they were captured, and now one to say that there had been a murder.


I call _partial_ BS on that.  Google News seems to suggest there were far more two articles out there (looking just between October of last year and March of this year), especially when videos were released.  

On the other hand, though, what was the ratio of Canadian vs. _foreign_ media coverage?  Poke around the hits from Google News, and draw your own conclusions.  



			
				LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Nothing to say that the GoC was aware and working on it, and no media pressure demanding more be done and more info be given to the public. Nothing.


To be fair to both the currently-ruling Liberals & the previously-ruling Conservatives, do you think you'd see/hear _everything_ being done behind the scenes while things were happening?  Here's what was said, for example, in October of last year:


> ... Canada’s Foreign Affairs Department said in an e-mailed statement that “the Government of Canada will not comment or release any information which may compromise continuing efforts and risk endangering the safety of Canadian citizens abroad.” ...



Meanwhile,  some of the latest ...

_*"Go get Canadian’s killers, (PHL President) Aquino tells police, military"*_
_*"Philippine troops under pressure to hunt down extremists who beheaded Canadian"*_
_*"Military, police voice condolences over ASG beheading of Canadian"*_



			
				Pieman said:
			
		

> I hope they send in a certain group of ours to hunt these people down. Canadians should be the ones pulling the trigger on these men as an answer to their actions.


Ideally, yes, but I'm also more than okay with those already in the fray doing the deed.


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## Haggis (26 Apr 2016)

Pieman said:
			
		

> I hope they send in a certain group of ours to hunt these people down. Canadians should be the ones pulling the trigger on these men as an answer to their actions.



And violate the sovereignty of another state?  Politically, it would be better for Filipino SOF and/or police to do the deed.  If we sent in our folks, and things went badly, that would be a major political coup for the bad guys and a major blow to our government.


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## Jed (26 Apr 2016)

The government does not have a lot of great options on this one. The previous government managed to work their magic with the Bob Fowler file. My gut tells me the new folks don't have the same expertise.


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## Remius (26 Apr 2016)

Jed said:
			
		

> The government does not have a lot of great options on this one. The previous government managed to work their magic with the Bob Fowler file. My gut tells me the new folks don't have the same expertise.



You do realise that there are teams in place for this sort of thing.  Likely many of those that worked on the Fowler case were working on this one.  Also different groups and different circumstances.  Some have insinuated that the Bob Fowler kidnappers were paid the ransom and the this current one was not.  But who knows.  I don't think this has anything to do with which government is in place.  Canada's official position on this is pretty clear.


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## jollyjacktar (26 Apr 2016)

I don't care who does it, I just hope they get the iron and copper delivery they're begging for sooner rather than later.


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## Danjanou (26 Apr 2016)

Having seen some of our Filipino Brothers in Arms, I'm sure they are quite capable of exacting retribution for us while saving the remaining hostages if and when they can locate then and equally importantly are let off their leash by their own political masters


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## The Bread Guy (26 Apr 2016)

Here's a piece that includes a bit on the politics behind this happening a couple of weeks before a presidential election in PHL, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the _Copyright Act_:


> *Canadian Hostage Beheaded in Philippines by Muslim Extremists*
> By JIM GOMEZ, Associated Press
> 
> The Philippine military came under increased pressure Tuesday to rescue more than 20 foreign hostages after their Muslim extremist captors beheaded a Canadian man, but troops face a dilemma in how to succeed without endangering the remaining captives.
> ...


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## Pieman (26 Apr 2016)

> And violate the sovereignty of another state?  Politically, it would be better for Filipino SOF and/or police to do the deed.  If we sent in our folks, and things went badly, that would be a major political coup for the bad guys and a major blow to our government.



I'm more thinking that our group would go there with permission to 'assist' the Filipino gov in tracking down this group. I don't think that is unheard of...unfortunately I also realize it's not likely to happen.


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## The Bread Guy (27 Apr 2016)

This from PHL media ...


> The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) announced that 501st Infantry Brigade commander Brigadier General Alan Arrojado has relinquished his post effective Wednesday. Arrojado was replaced by Col. Jose Faustino, said AFP spokesperson Brig. Gen. Restituto Padilla.
> 
> The former is a member of the Philippine Military Academy Class of 1984.
> 
> ...


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## armyvern (27 Apr 2016)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Anyone who believes nothing was being done about this is wrong. Unfortunately, sometimes the bad guys win.
> 
> When Canadian nationals are kidnapped overseas there are people whose job it is to work the file, but in most cases we will never hear about it and for good reasons.



Bingo.

Too many people thinking that if they aren't hearing about it then it's not happening.  Thing is, if the government and agencies involved told the public --- they'd also be telling the bad guys.  And, there are still hostages whose lives are at stake here.


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## George Wallace (27 Apr 2016)

:goodpost:

EXACTLY!


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## BurnDoctor (27 Apr 2016)

Meanwhile, the PM has expressed "outrage". What a bad-ass.


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## The Bread Guy (27 Apr 2016)

BurnDoctor said:
			
		

> Meanwhile, the PM has expressed "outrage". What a bad-ass.


I guess it's hard to have it both ways:  when the PM says not much, folks complain about "WTF's Canada doing?!?!?", and if the PM says too much, folks complain about "WTF's with the lack of OPSEC?!?!?!"

To be a bit partisan, this is now Team Red's problem to help solve, no question, but this started on Team Blue's watch, and I can't find too many complaints (around here, anyway) about what _they_ said about the kidnapping:


> ... Canada’s Foreign Affairs Department said in an e-mailed statement that “the Government of Canada will not comment or release any information which may compromise continuing efforts and risk endangering the safety of Canadian citizens abroad.” ...


That bad ass enough for you?


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## Cloud Cover (27 Apr 2016)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> This from PHL media ...



The Philippine armed forces, while quite numerous, are stretched mighty thin and have a large number of hotspots to contend with, excluding the gigantic monster which is China.  I would like to think that if their public position is "we got this",  then at least in private they are hopefully asking for whatever assistance they deem necessary. (money, equipment, ISR, special forces, internet intelligence etc.) and, we must give it to them NQA.  No person or organization in the world should feel safe if they lop off the head of a Canadian, and it should not matter at all why that Canadian was taken hostage and killed. In cases like this, proportionate, painful and lasting revenge is a "must", not a "should".


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## The Bread Guy (27 Apr 2016)

whiskey601 said:
			
		

> ... I would like to think that if their public position is "we got this",  then at least in private they are hopefully asking for whatever assistance they deem necessary. (money, equipment, ISR, special forces, internet intelligence etc.) and, we must give it to them NQA ...


Agreed, 120%, and if I had to bet a loonie, I'd bet that something along these lines, at some (more than one?) level, is already happening - and has been since this started in September.

Good luck & good hunting to anyone helping out


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## The Bread Guy (3 May 2016)

The latest ...


> The Abu Sayyaf issued a fresh warning on Tuesday, May 3, threatening to harm 3 hostages, just over a week after they beheaded a captive.
> 
> The trio – from Canada, Norway and the Philippines – appealed for help from the Philippine and Canadian governments in a video uploaded to YouTube Tuesday and reported by SITE intelligence group, which monitors jihadist media.
> 
> ...


More here, here and here.


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## Colin Parkinson (4 May 2016)

Impaling people who do this might have an effect


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## The Bread Guy (4 May 2016)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Impaling people who do this might have an effect


Agreed, but gotta catch 'em first ...


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## jollyjacktar (4 May 2016)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Impaling people who do this might have an effect



On a pork covered pole.  Vlad Tepes style.


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## The Bread Guy (5 May 2016)

Lookit who's trying to help out ...


> The Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) said it has been finding ways to help secure the remaining captives taken from the Island Garden City of Samal on Sept 21, 2015 as the Abu Sayyaf released another video, in which the hostages pleaded for help.
> 
> Dr Samsula Adju, chair of the MNLF's Global Roving Diplomacy and Peace Advocacy, told the Philippine Daily Inquirer on Wednesday that they have been studying what measures to take to help end the ordeal of Canadian Robert Hall, Norwegian Kjartan Sekkingstad, and Filipino Maritess Flor.
> 
> ...


More on the MNLF here.


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## The Bread Guy (16 May 2016)

The latest ...


> Abu Sayyaf extremists in the Philippines who last month beheaded a Canadian man say they will kill another Western hostage if a multi-million dollar ransom is not paid within four weeks.
> 
> A video released by the group — whose leaders have sworn allegiance to ISIL — shows Canadian Robert Hall and Norwegian Kjartan Sekkingstad wearing orange shirts in a jungle setting, surrounded by hooded, armed men.
> 
> ...



*** - About CDN$ 16.7 million


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## jollyjacktar (16 May 2016)

I hope they find them before the deadline and if not I hope their end is quick.  Poor bastards.


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## The Bread Guy (23 May 2016)

The latest:


> The (Philippine)military stood by its focused operations to rescue the three remaining Samal captives held by the Abu Sayyaf group, who released a “final message” from the hostages on Sunday.
> 
> Maj. Filemon Tan Jr., spokesman of the Western Mindanao Command (Westmincom), said the military has not seen the new video yet. However, he maintained that the deadline does not factor into Wesmincom's operations.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (13 Jun 2016)

R.I.P. x 2 ...


> The Abu Sayyaf group has beheaded another Canadian hostage held on a southern Philippine island after ransom demands apparently were not met.
> 
> Robert Hall was confirmed dead on Monday by a military source who spoke to Al Jazeera on condition of anonymity prior to the official announcment.
> 
> ...


Still early reports - more here (via Google News).


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## jollyjacktar (13 Jun 2016)

:rage: :rage: :rage:  I hope the Philippine military find these assholes and terminate them with extreme prejudice. My condolences to the Hall family for their loss.


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## The Bread Guy (13 Jun 2016)

From our PM's Info-machine:


> The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today issued the following statement on the likely death of Robert Hall:
> 
> “It is with deep sadness that I have reason to believe that a Canadian citizen, Robert Hall, held hostage in the Philippines since September 21, 2015, has been killed by his captors.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (14 Jun 2016)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> :rage: :rage: :rage:  I hope the Philippine military find these assholes and terminate them with extreme prejudice.


Here's hoping ...


> The beheading of a second Canadian hostage in the Philippines by ransom-seeking Abu Sayyaf extremists has prompted a major offensive by troops in the south of the country.
> 
> (...)
> 
> ...


A reminder:  another hostage still in AS's hands, Kjartan Sekkingstad, may be was a permanent former resident of Canada in Campbell River, BC.


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## The Bread Guy (15 Jun 2016)

Interesting ....


> Canadian officials twice rejected proposals from the Philippines government to approve rescue missions for Alberta hostages Robert Hall and John Ridsdel, says a Calgary-based security consultant claiming knowledge of the planned military interventions.
> 
> The allegation is being called “categorically untrue” by a senior Ottawa official, who denied that permission was ever sought by the Philippines government for potentially life-saving raids.
> 
> ...


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## jollyjacktar (15 Jun 2016)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Interesting ....



Especially if this story has any legs to it.  I can't see, however, a raid being turned down if one was so offered without good bloody reason.


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## Lightguns (15 Jun 2016)

Why the hell would they request permission from Canada, their bloody country, their bloody terrorists, kill, kill, kill?


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## The Bread Guy (15 Jun 2016)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Why the hell would they request permission from Canada, their bloody country, their bloody terrorists, kill, kill, kill?


That's what makes me scratch my head, too.  The Phillipines has just come through an election cycle, so that _may_ have been a factor, but that's just a WAG on my part.


			
				jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Especially if this story has any legs to it.


 :nod:  Right now, I'm happy to share it on the "is EVERYTHING ever in ANY media story?" basis - there must be more to it than this ...


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## jollyjacktar (15 Jun 2016)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> That's what makes me scratch my head, too.  The Phillipines has just come through an election cycle, so that _may_ have been a factor, but that's just a WAG on my part. :nod:  Right now, I'm happy to share it on the "is EVERYTHING ever in ANY media story?" basis - there must be more to it than this ...



Seeing as Canadian citizens were the victims, I could see the Philippine authorities asking to CYA in case things went south and they were killed in the attempt, or if we already had something in play that could have been upset (negotiations for example) by an rescue attempt.  

At least the present President doesn't seem to be one who will be all panty waisted "sunny ways" in dealing with the terrorists.  They, and their support element will be hammered flat and taken out if they get a chance to strike.


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## The Bread Guy (25 Jun 2016)

Update:  one freed ...


> A Filipina held hostage by a notorious kidnapping-for-ransom gang in the strife-torn southern Philippines was released from captivity Friday, police said, a week after her Canadian boyfriend was beheaded by the gunmen.
> 
> Marites Flor was among four people abducted nine months ago by Abu Sayyaf Islamic militants based on remote, mountainous islands, who have earned millions of dollars from kidnappings in recent years.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (2 Jul 2016)

The latest ...


> Government security forces have recovered the decaying remains of Canadian kidnap victim Robert Hall in the hinterlands of Sulu, a military official said Saturday, July 2.
> 
> Major Filemon Tan Jr., spokesperson of the Armed Forces of the Philippines' Western Mindanao Command (Westmincom), said the remains of Hall was dug up and recovered around 11:35 a.m. Saturday in the village of Upper Kamuntayan, Talipao in Sulu province.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (18 Sep 2016)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Update:  one freed ...


And a bit of closure:  the other one freed:


> Ransom-seeking Abu Sayyaf extremists on Saturday freed a Norwegian man kidnapped a year ago in the southern Philippines along with two Canadians who were later beheaded and a Filipino woman who has been released, officials said.
> 
> Kjartan Sekkingstad was freed in Patikul town in Sulu province and was eventually secured by rebels from the larger Moro National Liberation Front, which has a signed a peace deal with the government and helped negotiate his release, officials said.
> 
> Sekkingstad, held in jungle captivity since being kidnapped last September, was to stay overnight at the house of Moro National Liberation Front chairman Nur Misuari in Sulu and then meet with Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte on Sunday, said Jesus Dureza, who advises Duterte on peace talks with insurgent groups ...


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## The Bread Guy (24 Sep 2016)

Coming up next - family says they didn't do enough ...


> ... Bonice Thomas, Robert Hall's sister, wrote a Facebook post, criticizing the Canadian government for not doing more to stop her brother's death.
> 
> In an interview with As It Happens host Carol Off, Thomas says she understands the Canadian government's policy of not paying ransom to terrorists. But she says that shouldn't be the end of the conversation.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (17 Nov 2016)

A bit more detail on what Canada was doing, via an Access to Information release to VICE News (like most media outlets, they don't share the entire release, so caveat lector):


> The day before the deadline a terrorist group had set to behead a Canadian hostage in the Philippines, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called the Filipino president and emphasized that his government has a firm policy against paying ransoms.
> 
> Details of the 11th hour exchange on April 7 between Trudeau and Philippine President Benigno Aquino III are contained in documents obtained by VICE News through access to information and illustrate how Canadian officials worked behind the scenes to respond to the looming threat.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (1 Dec 2016)

More detail on what the government was (and wasn't) doing behind the scenes ...


> On Nov. 3, 2015, the day before newly elected prime minister Justin Trudeau was set to name his cabinet, one of the most gruesome challenges of his leadership and his government made itself known.
> 
> A terrorist organization half a world away was threatening to kill two Canadians.
> 
> In a video shot on Jolo Island in the Philippines’ Sulu Province and posted to Twitter, a man named John Ridsdel addressed the camera ...


... with some possible solutions:


> The government is facing calls to review its approach to supporting families of Canadians kidnapped abroad and address alleged shortcomings in its response to the cases of two men abducted in the Philippines in 2015.
> 
> Among the recommendations is establishing a U.S.-style "fusion cell" that would improve co-ordination between government departments in the hopes of resolving hostage situations.
> 
> ...


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## The Bread Guy (6 Dec 2016)

Interestingly phrased - highlights mine ...


> For 266 hellish nights in the clutches of the Abu Sayyaf Group, Robert Hall held out hope that Canadian soldiers were coming to the rescue.
> 
> Hall, 66, had an engineer’s mind. He was a problem-solver. He understood this was a problem for the best of the best.
> 
> ...


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## Old Sweat (6 Dec 2016)

And the key to the story is here:

_*Hall would never live to learn the heartbreaking truth: Joint Task Force 2, the jewel of Canada’s special ops command, was in the Philippines, the Star can confirm. But not in a position to strike.

A team arrived within days of the abductions, according to highly placed sources close to JTF2. They spent the next nine months on the ground without ever growing into a full-strength assault team.

The Canadian soldiers were kept on a short leash, never given the green light to team up with their Philippine special forces counterparts. And a Canadian-led rescue was never in the cards.*_

This is about what could have been expected. The Philippine forces and even more so their government would never have ceded sovereignty to a foreign force, especially from a first world country. Moreover the Philippinos would have been familiar with the area of operations and there is no reason to believe that a force of European-stock operators could have been inserted and trained to operate in a hostile environment, let along carry out the operation, without detection.

In another place under different circumstances, perhaps, but not in this case.

A little bit of sensationalism, anyone?


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## The Bread Guy (11 Dec 2016)

And a little bit of closure ...


> Malaysian security forces have killed a key member of a Philippine armed group in a shootout in waters off Sabah in Borneo, according to the Philippine military.
> 
> Abu Sayyaf commander Abraham Hamid had led the kidnapping of several foreigners from a tourist resort in the southern Philippines last year, two of whom were later beheaded.
> 
> ...


More from Filipino media here, here and here.


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## jollyjacktar (11 Dec 2016)

Outstanding.  Hope it was a slow, painful death.


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## The Bread Guy (11 Dec 2016)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> Outstanding.  Hope it was a slow, painful death.


Probably not, but one takes what one can get.


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## jollyjacktar (11 Dec 2016)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Probably not, but one takes what one can get.



Agreed, but I can always hope.


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## The Bread Guy (12 Apr 2017)

Sounds like the boss has been dealt with as well ...


> Soldiers battling Abu Sayyaf in central Philippines are reported to have killed a key commander of the armed group who had been blamed for the beheadings of two Canadians and a German hostage.
> 
> Military chief of staff General Eduardo Ano said troops recovered and identified the remains of Moammar Askali, also known as Abu Rami, at the scene of the battle in a coastal village on Bohol island on Tuesday.
> 
> ...


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## AirDet (12 Apr 2017)

I'll bet some other wannabe has already stepped into this criminal's shoes. There never seems to be a shortage of fanatics when dealing with radical islam.


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