# CAF or CF



## Grimey (17 Dec 2004)

When i enlisted in '85, all the CFRC literature had Canadian Armed Forces stamped on it.  When was the "Armed" part dropped?  Haven't seen it in years.


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## casca (17 Dec 2004)

I think the reason for the change is that now CAF stands for Canadian Air Force, which makes sense. However even when i joined back in 81 we were calling the forces the CF so we didn't confuse what we were talking about. Anyone have another reason for the change?


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## Sailing Instructor (17 Dec 2004)

Do people refer to the 'Canadian Air Force'?  I know that one can informally speak of Air command as such but I thought that since the air element was not formally referred to as such, there would be no confusion of acronyms (as acronyms are usually used formally).  By this logic, we should worry about Canadian National railways being confused with our Canadian Navy.  Of course the this particular service...er, element (Freudian slip!) is never abbreviated to CN so never mind.

I know one can see many old aeroplanes with CAF painted beside our roundel (rondel?).  I used to think this was Canadian Air Force but then learned it was Canadian Armed Forces.

Perhaps this acronym-change is indicitave of a plan to make the CF _un_armed: we'll be forbidden to carry weapons and have to learn unarmed combat.


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## FSTO (17 Dec 2004)

I tend to agree with the idea of dropping Armed because of some silly idea that armed was too agressive for our Canadiian sensibilities.

But then again, shouldn't it be implied that your Army, Navy and Air Force are armed anyway?


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## McG (17 Dec 2004)

From the National Defence Act:


> 14. The Canadian Forces are the armed forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada and consist . . .



It never was CAF.  It has always been CF

We did go through a period where everything comming out of the recruiting world had "Canadian Armed Forces" stamped on it, but I don't think I've ever seen it reduced to acronym on anything official.

There is no secret conspiracy to make the CF less aggressive through a name change.

The CAF is not the air force.


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## Inch (17 Dec 2004)

casca said:
			
		

> I think the reason for the change is that now CAF stands for Canadian Air Force, which makes sense. However even when i joined back in 81 we were calling the forces the CF so we didn't confuse what we were talking about. Anyone have another reason for the change?



As the others have stated, CAF does not stand for Canadian Air Force and never has. After CAF was dropped from aircraft paint schemes, there was a short time when it said "Armed Forces/ Forces Armee" next to the roundel. This was also dropped and now it's simply the roundel with the trademark "Canada" with the little flag over the last "a" painted on the fuselage. There's also a flag with "Canadian Forces" painted on the aircraft.

I too don't believe it's some big PCness conspiracy to remove the "Armed" from the name, I've only ever heard it called the CF besides what the recruiting posters said.


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## Bograt (17 Dec 2004)

I just came from the staff Chritmas party, so I'm three sheets to the wind, but the removal of "armed" was a budgetary cut. It save more money to cut armed from the paiint sceme.


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## FSTO (17 Dec 2004)

Inch said:
			
		

> As the others have stated, CAF does not stand for Canadian Air Force and never has. After CAF was dropped from aircraft paint schemes, there was a short time when it said "Armed Forces/ Forces Armee" next to the roundel. This was also dropped and now it's simply the roundel with the trademark "Canada" with the little flag over the last "a" painted on the fuselage. There's also a flag with "Canadian Forces" painted on the aircraft.
> 
> I too don't believe it's some big PCness conspiracy to remove the "Armed" from the name, I've only ever heard it called the CF besides what the recruiting posters said.



Maybe this is just the traditionalist in me talking but, I am a little disturbed about the "TRADEMARK" symbol on our aircraft. I uaually thank god everytime I am walking towards one of our warships and there isn't a trademark symbol over my ships name or on the funnel.


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## Inch (17 Dec 2004)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Maybe this is just the traditionalist in me talking but, I am a little disturbed about the "TRADEMARK" symbol on our aircraft. I uaually thank god everytime I am walking towards one of our warships and there isn't a trademark symbol over my ships name or on the funnel.



I didn't really mean "trademark" in the marketing sense, I was just trying to describe the symbol so everyone could understand the one I was talking about. Traditionally, aircraft have always been marked in such a manner, from Sqn symbols and paint jobs to the Roundel and other related insignia that's always been found on aircraft. At least nowadays it's all low vis grey/dark grey or green/black (SAR being the obvious exception), there was a time when aircraft were painted in full colour. The Snowbirds are another example, the red and white paint scheme is as recognizable as anything. You know it's them from a distance simply from the paint job.


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## McG (17 Dec 2004)




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## Inch (17 Dec 2004)

That's the one, thanks MCG.


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## MdB (17 Dec 2004)

It's really weird cuz all the French medias call the Canadian Forces, the Canadian Armed Forces, even though it's officially called Canadian Forces. It sounds like "Forces armées canadiennes" and not "Forces canadiennes", which (the later) I find cleaner (shorter?  ) or maybe more diplomatic.

Cheers,


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## Bert (17 Dec 2004)

Its weird.  I tried searching for official designations but I didn't come away with anything clearly stated.
As posted above, all the official documents describe the "Canadian Forces" and not the Canadian
Armed Forces.  The air force in Canada is 1CAD or the 1 Canadian Air Division not the
Canadian Air Force as it may be casually referred.  Personally, I'd like to see the RCAF back as it 
represents us better.


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## McG (17 Dec 2004)

Air Command would be the closest we have to air force.  1 CAD is a formation of Air Command.


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## Bert (18 Dec 2004)

I understand but I don't believe "Air Command" is the official reference for the air force.
The Air Force www site and various documents I've come accross provide contradictions.
Funny to say, many in the Air Force will give different answers but it commonly referred
to as 1CAD or CAD.


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## Sam69 (18 Dec 2004)

MCG said:
			
		

> From the National Defence Act:
> 
> 
> > 14. The Canadian Forces are the armed forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada and consist . . .
> ...



Again, from the National Defence Act (Part II, Sect 14):

"The Canadian Forces are the armed forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada and consist of one Service *called the Canadian Armed Forces.*"

So, unless I'm missing something, I think it is incorrect to say that it was never CAF.

Sam


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## Bert (18 Dec 2004)

OK.  This is embarrassing.  I belong to the CF but I don't definitively know what the heck 
its properly called.  I've wondered about it from time to time.  Everywhere I go there are differences 
or contradictions in naming.  Added to this, the wife is insisting I go shopping with her right 
now and I can't search further.  If anyone has the time or specific knowledge, what is the 
correct term for the Canadian Forces (or what is it properly called), the Air Force, the Navy, 
and the Army?


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## Bert (18 Dec 2004)

To those interested, I found this link:  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces#Force_structure

In many CF, DND, and government documents, elements of the CF
are described using different terms or variations of terms.  This link
so far has provided the best context.


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## McG (18 Dec 2004)

Sam69 said:
			
		

> Again, from the National Defence Act (Part II, Sect 14):
> 
> "The Canadian Forces are the armed forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada and consist of one Service *called the Canadian Armed Forces.*"


It is amazing what you can miss when your .PDF version has the right edge of the page cut off.
It seems the Canadian Armed Forces are the one and only component of the CF.  Odd.


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## Steel Badger (18 Dec 2004)

Beh



Hellyer has a lot to answer for!


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## Shadowhawk (27 Dec 2004)

I'm no expert but I believe the CAF was used after 1948 and before the big U in 76??. Previous to 48 it was called the RCAF (Royal Canadian Air Force) to distinguish it from the RAF (Royal Air Force)

Don't hold me to this ... history is not one of my better subjects.

I hope someone can find out for sure.


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## Shadowhawk (27 Dec 2004)

OK ... I was not as accurate as I could have been ... lol

I found more information about the CAF.

"In June 1919, the Canadian government established an Air Board of seven members to regulate and control commercial and civil aviation throughout the Dominion. The Board was also charged with the air defence of Canada. This included the organization and administration of a *new CAF * which was authorized by an Order-in-Council, February 18, 1920." - http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/hist/inter_war_e.asp

"Birth of the RCAF - April 1, 1924
King George V promulgated the prefix "Royal" in 1923 for the Canadian Air Force and made it official in 1924. *The new title Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF)* officially came into being on April 1, 1924. "The King's Regulations and Orders" for the RCAF were then promulgated. Thus, April 1, 1924 became the official birthdate of the RCAF. " - http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/hist/inter_war_e.asp

"Unification
In February 1968, the 45,000 officers, men and women of the RCAF, including 19 types of Aircraft and support material, were incorporated into the single *Canadian Armed Forces (CAF)*. " - http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/hist/modern_e.asp

"The Eighties
The formation of Air Command rekindled the Air Force team spirit which had burned so fiercely prior to unification. The traditions of "Air Force" were once again highlighted as members searched for the identity they once knew. The Air Force recruit schools had disappeared with the advent of the single service concept and young officers and NCMs were indoctrinated solely into the *CF*. " - http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/hist/modern_e.asp

I hope this helped. There is lots of good infor on this site.


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## ctjj.stevenson (5 Jan 2005)

I don't know if anyone wrote it down, however CAF did stand for the Canadian Air Force, before it became the Royal Canadian Air Force. When Canada first created its Air Force, it was called the Canadian Air Force, and later became the RCAF.


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Jan 2005)

ctjj.stevenson said:
			
		

> I don't know if anyone wrote it down, however CAF did stand for the Canadian Air Force, before it became the Royal Canadian Air Force. When Canada first created its Air Force, it was called the Canadian Air Force, and later became the RCAF.



Thats what Shadowhawks post above mentions.


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## ctjj.stevenson (5 Jan 2005)

I did not read the whole thread before I placed my post ... therefore, my post was quite useless seeing that better information was written before I wrote what I wrote.


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## Inch (5 Jan 2005)

ctjj.stevenson said:
			
		

> I did not read the whole thread before I placed my post ... therefore, my post was quite useless seeing that better information was written before I wrote what I wrote.



I notice you've done that a couple times, do us a favour and read the thread before posting in it. Thanks.


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Jan 2005)

Inch said:
			
		

> I notice you've done that a couple times, do us a favour and read the thread before posting in it. Thanks.



Amen brother Inch.


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## X-Rigger (1 Apr 2005)

MCG said:
			
		

> From the National Defence Act:
> It never was CAF.   It has always been CF
> 
> We did go through a period where everything comming out of the recruiting world had "Canadian Armed Forces" stamped on it, but I don't think I've ever seen it reduced to acronym on anything official.
> ...




Since when has any info coming out of Recruiting ever been correct?  But that's a different discussion...


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