# Cadets- What Would You Change?



## Harris (3 Jul 2001)

Hello,

As the new moderator I've decided to try and get some dialog going amongst the members.   So here is my question to you:

If you could change one thing in the Cadet Organization as a whole, what would it be, why, and what do you suggest as a fix.

For me, based on what I've seen lately, I'd have to go with awareness of what the Cadet Organization does.   I don't think there are enough community events where Cadets are involved, or get a chance to talk to "Joe Civvy".   I'd try to remidy this by making part of each Units evaluation markbased on the number of Community events where Cadets attended and participated.   Standing outside Walmart selling fund raiser items doesn't count.   Things such as visiting Retirement homes.   Serving at culteral events, being in local parades.   Sending a small group of Cadets to Cenotaphs that normally don't get any Military presence on Remberance Day etc...

Let's hear your ideas.   :sniper:


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## echo (4 Jul 2001)

how about clean up of a wooded path adopted by the corps.


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## Soldier of Fortune (4 Jul 2001)

My Corp does all that stuff. We adopted a highway, March in everysingle parade our town has had, we did a clean up for 3 days at our towns music festival, and we get invited to openings of things, such as this years trade fair in our town. Our Corp is respected in our town and people know of all the good things we do (we are almost always in the paper) I think Cadets should get to do more military oriented things, such as going on tank and helicopter rides, getting to use Canadian Forces rifles such as the C7, etc. If Cadets can get a real picture of the Canadian Forces it would probably encourage them to join when they are older.


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## spacemarine (4 Jul 2001)

That‘s your corps officer‘s fault that you don‘t do any of that.  I‘ve been on rides in Griffons, one ex the helicopter sqn came out in the bush with us along with our regiment and we got to use C-7‘s.  In the CATOs it says you can fire blanks if you‘re on an approved ex with your affiliated unit. We go on ex.‘s with our reg‘t where we are issued w/ c7s and blanks (seniors 16+ years old only).  One ex we also got smoke grenades.  I‘d say the other things certain corps do but it would get them in trouble.  As long as someone‘s willing to bend the rules you can do whatever you want.

If you‘re near a base you can book the range for c7‘s (we‘ve gone to the range a few times this year), the SAT computer range, obstacle course, mock tower, and rappel tower.  You just have to ask.


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## Soldier of Fortune (4 Jul 2001)

You guys are lucky! Our affiliated unit is a medical unit so I dont know if we will get to do that sort of stuff. I will ask next year. Also whats the name of yur Corp Spacemarine?


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## spacemarine (4 Jul 2001)

You‘d probably have to go out with an infantry regiment to do the stuff we do. I know the armoured corps here gets to do similar stuff like fire the c-6‘s on the vehicles, .50‘s, etc.  The only advantage I can see to having a medical unit as your affiliated unit would be all of the hotties!


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## Soldier of Fortune (4 Jul 2001)

Oh Ya! Go down and see some of those newly recruited young nurses   !  Hopefully my corp will get to train with them.


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## echo (5 Jul 2001)

its a sad shame i get to miss out on all those things because my CO‘s a flabbery old fool.


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## Soldier of Fortune (5 Jul 2001)

Echo, whos your affiliated unit?


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## echo (5 Jul 2001)

748 governer generals horse gaurds.


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## Harris (5 Jul 2001)

Echo,

Have you passed some good (and realistic) ideas up the Chain of Command?  Perhaps all your Corp needs is some good ideas to act on.
  :sniper:


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## Argyll_2347 (6 Jul 2001)

I would want Army Cadets to become actually ARMY.  Cadets would learn tactics from their affiliated unit and use them on joint FTXs.

By the way, my affiliated unit is the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise‘s).


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## echo (6 Jul 2001)

myself an a few other cadets(mostly my sergeant buddies) have been "requesting" a garrison excercise for over 4 months.
the chain hears our pleas but have had no luck (or whatnot) in getting something together.


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## Soldier of Fortune (6 Jul 2001)

What is a Garrison Exercise?


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## echo (7 Jul 2001)

a garrison is when 3 or 4 differant corps get together for a weekend and train.

  :tank:   :tank:      :tank:   :tank:  
 :fifty:


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## MCpl ??????? (3 Dec 2004)

i think we should put the ranks back to normal, its better to get rank if you deserve it


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## catalyst (3 Dec 2004)

OK - 

I realize this was started by a Mod (back in 2001)...but do we have to really dig up old threads just so cadets can post their gripes with the system?

My .02 cents


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## Burrows (3 Dec 2004)

MCpl Jackson said:
			
		

> i think we should put the ranks back to normal, its better to get rank if you deserve it



Care to clarify?  If you are referring to the Pte and Cpl auto promotions...It is the same military...after you become trained you become a Private and after 2 years with the regiment I believe it is you become a Cpl..the rest are based upon qualification and merit.


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## sgt_mandal (3 Dec 2004)

uh oh, this again?


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## Burrows (3 Dec 2004)

Take it up with your officers not CPL Burrows your Moderator and an internet forum...and I can guarantee that if you say "well Corporal Burrows Moderator on Army.ca said this...they will laugh at you"


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## GGHG_Cadet (4 Dec 2004)

Catalyst, it's better to dig up an old thread than to start a brand new one. At least he searched for it.


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## madchicken (6 Dec 2004)

Burrows said:
			
		

> If you are referring to the Pte and Cpl auto promotions



-_- I beg you pardon!  I earned my rank to corporal through a lot of hard work and showing my officers and NCO's that I deserve it


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## cihmitb (6 Dec 2004)

I was in cadets for 1 1/2 years and I quite because it was nothing like the army, I was in the Canadian grenadier  guards, and all that mattered was how your uniform looked, we never did any pt, most of the guys there couldn't run 1 k, we went to the shooting range twice and that was for biathlon  and we used 22. and we went out in the bush twice and that and the shooting range where the only things we did that where remotely military like. Everything else was marching and uniforms, and I know this has a lot to do with the army and I have no problem with that but pt and training are also big parts of the army. any ways I'm waiting for this summer to join the reserves.


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## Burrows (6 Dec 2004)

madchicken said:
			
		

> -_- I beg you pardon! I earned my rank to corporal through a lot of hard work and showing my officers and NCO's that I deserve it



Same here...calm down....The CATOs say that After Red you should be promoted to Cpl....But It doesnt work that sometimes.


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## q_1966 (6 Dec 2004)

```
If I could change one thing...it would be that our corps would ACTUALLY have weekend excercise's once month, and if possible more than just an overnighter oh and more funding for Cores by DND

Im cheating by saying 2, but what the heck
-Shawn
```


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## q_1966 (6 Dec 2004)

For people with good uniforms, you should be able to wear combats on Parade nights, except for CO's Parade and special activities. 

- Shawn


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## sgt_mandal (6 Dec 2004)

Shawn Papke said:
			
		

> ```
> If I could change one thing...it would be that our corps would ACTUALLY have weekend excercise's once month, and if possible more than just an overnighter oh and more funding for Cores by DND
> 
> Im cheating by saying 2, but what the heck
> ...


And who would pay for this?


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## dano (7 Dec 2004)

Mabye once a year on parade night, dress will be combats here.
For our teams its civi, except for skill and arms.


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## william (7 Dec 2004)

You guys are all lucky, my squadron only gets recognized on remembrance day. We don't do anything except go gliding once a year. We've   just been granted the use of our towns range and all we get to fire are 22's. 

I would just like to change the amount of extra activity's we do.


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## Burrows (7 Dec 2004)

ARMYboi69 said:
			
		

> Sergeant, Combats are forbidden to be on Parade unless there is physical training that will take place during ALL periods of the night. Skill & Arms, for example was allowed to wear them.



Got a CATO reference for this?


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## condor888000 (7 Dec 2004)

Offline??


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## condor888000 (8 Dec 2004)

See if you can get access to your corps offline copies. Should be there. Liable to be more recent than the one online any way.


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## condor888000 (9 Dec 2004)

Might be updating it, might be different from region to region, so it's not online, could put them over their bandwidth... who knows?


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## QY RANG 2 (9 Dec 2004)

I think that we should have more c7 shoots! But i have heard that cadets are only allowed to fire 15 rounds of 5.56 ammunition a year. i don't know if thats true. considering our corps recently fired 30 rounds each amongst a group of about 35.
I was wondering how much trigger time with the c7S do other corps get!


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## madchicken (10 Dec 2004)

One thing I would bring back is red ranks.  Why did they get rid of them?  I personnaly thought they looked really cool!


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## Ranger12 (10 Dec 2004)

its sad im with 909 in westbank b.c canada air cadet im a Cpl with alot of other badges got my promise for sgt for Christmas.. we only do monday nights and every parade thats all. i do cadets to keep me away from drugs and all that.. i love Cadets i want to be a CF-18 pilot when i grow up by then i hope we have more jets and stuff so its more easy to get a spot. i dunno what to do to get as doing more things? what should i try? thanks


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## catalyst (10 Dec 2004)

Ranger, I'm not sure what you mean as 'getting things'. 

How about trying to organize a drill team? First Aid team? You could practice before cadets/during break/possibly some other time.


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## q_1966 (10 Dec 2004)

FSgt_mandal said:
			
		

> And who would pay for this?



Its a "if I could change one thing" forum, sure its not realistic, but thats what id like to see happen, even if it probably wont.
-Shawn


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## q_1966 (10 Dec 2004)

(Responding to the CATO regarding no Combats to be worn on parade nights)
I didnt know, thought it was ok cuz our RSM does it, except for CO's Parade and the like, and hes been doin it since i can remember.
Il be sure to look at the CATO's
Thanx
- Shawn


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## sgt_mandal (10 Dec 2004)

Sgt. Papke said:
			
		

> Its a "if I could change one thing" forum, sure its not realistic, but thats what id like to see happen, even if it probably wont.
> -Shawn



hmm, I guess so.


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## Lexi (10 Dec 2004)

Less drill more thrill if ya catch my drift


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## catalyst (10 Dec 2004)

OK so correct me if I'm wrong,

but an aim of cadets is stiumlate interest in the CF. How is this done? Amung other things, wearing a uniform, use of a rank system, and drill.

Less drill = less military.

Now, seeing as a great deal of posts here are from cadets complaining that cadets is less military.

Is this a good thing?


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## Burrows (10 Dec 2004)

Catalyst..I think she means that more Bushcraft and fieldcraft type things would be better and could replace some drill...THERE IS MORE TO THE ARMY THAN DRILL.


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## catalyst (10 Dec 2004)

More to the army than drill?

Hmm....I guess thats why I'm on the air side of things 

I understand what she's saying - I just thought I'd make a point about drill.


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## catalyst (11 Dec 2004)

Well, duh armyboi. I think I know that.. 

I undersatnd where lexi is coming from, but did anyone get the point I made about "military=drill"?


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## gun plumber (11 Dec 2004)

Lest we forget:
GOOD DRILL INSTILLS DISCIPLINE
discpline is the backbone of the army.This is evident in all forms of military life.The days of executing a parade square perfect"hollow square"may be over,but the principals remain the same.Drill instills working as a team,as one unit to accomplish a specific goal.
Individually,the discipline it instills is evident in everyday life.Getting to work everyday on time and properly kitted out,tolerance and patience to do ones job properly,and not to fall to pieces at the first sign of trouble are all skills taught on the drill square.
Battle craft and bush craft are important as well,but without the discipline that organized drill teaches,it is useless.
again:
GOOD DRILL INSTILLS DISCIPLINE


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## catalyst (11 Dec 2004)

Well said!


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## q_1966 (14 Dec 2004)

The magority of People wont stay at the corps, if all you do is Drill, Lessons, Drill, Lessons, that almost happened at our corps, when we had 1 or 2 excercises the whole year. You need to have real bushcraft out in the field, take Green Stars on a Recce without being caught by the seniors, Map & Compass, that sort of thing plus whatever else, Keep the same amount of Drill, but focus alot more on Bushcraft, where it should be taught, in the bush.

- Shawn


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## sgt_mandal (14 Dec 2004)

ahh the bush, *dreamy eyes*

I think our CO forgot what the bush is  :


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## M16 (15 Dec 2004)

Getting off the thread subject?


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## condor888000 (15 Dec 2004)

FSgt_mandal said:
			
		

> ahh the bush, *dreamy eyes*
> 
> I think our CO forgot what the bush is   :



Our old CO did, and she forgot what a airfield was too...  :'(


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## SavSC2004 (15 Dec 2004)

Id have to say drill is one of my favorite parts of cadets...yeah yeah call me a freak   ;D   Besides looking good when done right, to me the effort someone puts into their drill shows pride in themselves and the pride they have being in their corps.   Stand up tall and hold your head high!

Back to the subject---What I would change about cadets?   Probably the people who abuse their power. Unfortunately this happens quite a lot in our area...not just our corps either.   I find this usually happens when new promotions are given out.   It definitely is an exciting thing when you are given a higher rank; you have more authority around the corps and people will look up to you for the things you have accomplished.   But along with all of this, there are also responsibilities that need to be taken care of.   Some people tend to get a little "power happy" and go around shouting their heads off just because they can.   All of a sudden, a person who was saying how they dislike the way they were treated by a Senior cadet who screamed and shouted at everyone IS one of those people.   There are times when voices will need to be raised to get a point across, but to be constantly yelling at the cadets I think isn't necessary.   They are smart young adults(most of the time anyway...), if you treat them like it, they'll respect you/listen to you and there won't be a need for any bellowing.

I'm by no means complaining, its just an issue I think needs to be addressed more.


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## my72jeep (15 Dec 2004)

involved with cadets off and on for 24 years its always the same thing why don't do more stuff well from what I've seen it mostly one of the things that stop you 1. its against the rules ie cadets firingblanks big no no or 2.you don't have the staff ie 4 officers can't do every thing along with cadets most officers have family jobs lives
but if you want to try and change the cadet program join the wayahead team they are always looking for cadet input.


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## Lexi (16 Dec 2004)

Whoa, didn't realise I'd stir up such a response.
I'm not saying drill should be eliminated, heck, I like drill, but I think that cadets should have more chances to go out into the field and apply the skills they learned in the classroom.

Of course I believe that drill is a way of instilling discipline, and I do believe drill is necessary... 
I just want more FTX's.


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## dano (16 Dec 2004)

It is important to know that the seniors out there can plan an activity for the corp.
Write up a plan, get all the work done. Hand it in to the RSM or the Trg/O.
If funding is a requirement, find the most economical rates.
It is all in the reference manual.

One of the most useful advice my officers gave me was "if you want anything done. Document it first."


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## q_1966 (16 Dec 2004)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> involved with cadets off and on for 24 years its always the same thing why don't do more stuff well from what I've seen it mostly one of the things that stop you 1. its against the rules ie cadets firingblanks big no no or 2.you don't have the staff ie 4 officers can't do every thing along with cadets most officers have family jobs lives
> but if you want to try and change the cadet program join the wayahead team they are always looking for cadet input.



Whats the "Wayahead" Team?

- Shawn


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## M16 (16 Dec 2004)

One thing that they should change in Cadets is more actual shooting time.   Cadets should be able to shoot actual firearms not just .177s.   One of the goals of Cadets is to increase interest in the CF.   By letting them do some shooting I'm sure that they're interest would increase.


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## catalyst (16 Dec 2004)

I agree - that woudl help stimulate interest in the CF, but the CF is not all about shooting!


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## M16 (16 Dec 2004)

I understand that.   I just think they should shoot more.   It's true that the CF isn't all about shooting but its still a big part of it.   Cadets used to be able to shoot a lot more a few years ago.


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## Eowyn (16 Dec 2004)

M16 said:
			
		

> It's true that the CF isn't all about shooting but its still a big part of it.



It is?!?!?  I'm lucky if I get to shoot, live, once a year.  Last year we had no blank allocated, so the troops didn't get to shoot that either.


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## SavSC2004 (16 Dec 2004)

...Our Corps goes shooting every thursday and Sunday.


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## condor888000 (16 Dec 2004)

What about .22's? You can fire those too you know...


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## sgt_mandal (16 Dec 2004)

We can't.


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## Burrows (17 Dec 2004)

I CAN! ;D


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## condor888000 (17 Dec 2004)

FSgt_mandal said:
			
		

> We can't.



What, no bialthon team?


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## M16 (17 Dec 2004)

Strange.


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## condor888000 (17 Dec 2004)

Strange what?  ???


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## M16 (17 Dec 2004)

No biathlon team


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## catalyst (17 Dec 2004)

We can 

.22 calibre live firing
is authorized for
AHACSTC.
"¢ .22-calibre live firing
is authorized for
LHQ training on
approved facilities.


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## condor888000 (17 Dec 2004)

AHASTC?
What,
*A*lbert
*H*ead
*A*ir
*C*adet
*S*ummer
*T*raining 
*C*entre?

We did at Lac SAb too, not sure if they still do at Baggotville...Mandel? Do they?


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## sgt_mandal (18 Dec 2004)

no   , but we did some "quadratholon" and this was the only time we shot anything. AND THEY WERE ONLY THE DAISYS!!   :'(. only 4 people from our flight could compete in this aswel. So there was no scheduled range time BAH HUMBUG.


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## Sea Cadet (19 Dec 2004)

I would change spending i would increse the amount they use cause my corps never has enough


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## TG1 GUNNER (20 Dec 2004)

I agree with Sea Cadet more spending


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## SavSC2004 (20 Dec 2004)

Yeah, I would have to second that one too.  We barely have enough eqipment to do us, and it is soon going to need to be replaced.  Last year for drill team we had to ration the webbing so that everyone would have a web belt.  One of the belts fell apart during the competition *blush*


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## armygurl_557 (21 Dec 2004)

I woukd have to say that my Corps is pretty good for getting us the equipment we need. They have gotten us everything that we have needed in the past, to my knowledge(Dano Correct me if I'm Wrong) But we have a big corps so fundraising is pretty easy.


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## joe_2701 (21 Dec 2004)

If i could change one thing about cadets, i make it MORE HARDCORE!! bring back the actually fun stuff to do! as well, id get rid of the 553 maroon berets! come on, they're offiliated to a mechanized infantry batallion, NOT AIRBORNE!!!


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## djvan (21 Dec 2004)

A long time ago, I was privileged enough to be a member of the 666 Air Cadet Squadron in North York Toronto. That would have been, hmmm 80's... I went to the reserves in '85. 

Those were the days though, cadets was everything. I was always so eager to attend the Tuesday night planning then the Thursday night parade nights. But really what IS cadets? A breading ground for reserve and regular force? I've been out of the forces for some time now, '96. But there needs to be a closure relationship between a Cadet Corp/Sqn and the Reserve and Regular forces. 

If you think about it, why does a Reserve Sqn spend hmm one ever three months with a cadet corp to bring them along, who them WHAT they actually do in their trade?

Cadets don;t need to be MORE HARD CORE, then need the guidance and time to appreciate what they are apart of. And when they are done, move onto the next level. Reserves, Regs, RMC what ever...

Cheers
DavidVan


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## sgt_mandal (21 Dec 2004)

I heard they changed that sqns number to 166 lol. I wonder why lol.


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## armygurl_557 (22 Dec 2004)

Can they actually change a Squadron or Corps number? Oh well.. I like Mine.


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## sgt_mandal (22 Dec 2004)

Well it WAS 666 lol, People got the wrong idea or something, i dunno


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## condor888000 (22 Dec 2004)

666...I want one of those flashes!!!


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## sgt_mandal (22 Dec 2004)

Those are rare, I want one too lol.


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## joe_2701 (30 Dec 2004)

I just thought I would clarify one thing about my statement. I dont wish to sound like one of those JTF2-wannabees that sometimes grace the army cadet mouvement. But i did mean that I would like better training that would actually inspire all of the things we promote (ex. leadership). Or even get some of the young ones who are forced by their parents to join to actually listen to orders from superior orders out of respect instead of having to be afraid of someone to listen to them. 

On another note, perhaps more amusing and military oriented training wether it be with weapons or activities of strategic nature.


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## alan_li_13 (30 Dec 2004)

[quoteI would change spending i would increse the amount they use cause my corps never has enough ]Actually, this might be surprising: I was told by my Officer that he found out that the only government program that have not had their funding cut is the cadet movement.



> But i did mean that I would like better training that would actually inspire all of the things we promote (ex. leadership).


We have a whole PO dedicated to leadership, and its you, your senior, and your officer's job to inspire and practice that leadership.



> On another note, perhaps more amusing and military oriented training wether it be with weapons or activities of strategic nature.


Thats a big NO NO. It's been debated before. These constitute training for war, which is against the Geneva Convention or the UN declaration of HR, i'm not sure...

What i would change is the length of summer camps. I wish they were longer, maybe 8 weeks atleast.


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## condor888000 (31 Dec 2004)

Why longer? I get that you may think it'd be more fun, but that's a huge expenditure. Keeping multiple thousandss of cadets, fed, housed and paid for two extra weeks? And what would be covered? Two of my three courses could have been taught in about 3/4 of the time we had. The third went long, stupid weather... If we had a total revamp odf the courses and changed them to have more/better material it may work otherwise, you can hope, but odds are it ain't happening.


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## gt102 (31 Dec 2004)

[joking] Cato 2121-21 : All female cadets shall now wear short skirts as shown in camochick's avatar [/joking]



anyways, I just say more interactivity. I mean how about using the skills you learn in classes (if this was already said.. sorry)




Mod Edit: Say the name right silly


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## dano (3 Jan 2005)

armygurl_557 said:
			
		

> Can they actually change a Squadron or Corps number? Oh well.. I like Mine.



557 all the way


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## q_1966 (3 Jan 2005)

how about shootin the Anshutz in CLI
-Shawn


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## wohunter (13 Jan 2005)

I would change how people are promoted. I have been in cadets for 5 years and I am 17 their is a cadet in my corps that is 15 and is a higher rank then me,this cadet has only been in cadets for 3 years and already has more power then me. she does have nsce, or a cli course and does not get envolved with corps activities which makes me wonder why this cadet is the highest rank in our cadets.


It just seems unfair that a cadet that asks me how to do things is higher. can anyone try to explain why this is.


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## Zedic_1913 (13 Jan 2005)

I think the only person that can explain this is your CO because they made the decision.  However sometimes the reasons aren't what they should be.  I have been promoted over people that are older then me and have been in cadets longer, it happens.  I had the qualifications and did the job well enough, these older people did not.  Age and time in cadets should be considered but isn't the only prerequisites.


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## condor888000 (13 Jan 2005)

Why should age and T.I be considered at all? The best x number of people at the rank below should get the promotino/appointment. That way you promote based on merit, on who can do the job best, not on how long have they been in. Until he left in Nov, a friend of mine, a Sgt, was the cadet in our sqn who had been in cadets the longest. Great guy, but not a great leader. If T.I and age were major considerations, he would have been WOI or at least WOII, neither was a position he was suited for. 
I've had people who joined after me and were younger than me promoted over me. Who cares? If they're the best suited for the job, good for them! If you don't think they are, step back, think of your chance to evaluate their skills with no bias. Compare that to the officiers skills to do the same thing. Who do you think has a better chance of making the proper descision?


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## GGHG_Cadet (13 Jan 2005)

At my corp thats all that seems to matter age and T.I. As a Mcpl I was much more capable than my four sgts, often I was teaching them stuff for their NSCE (which I haven't done yet), I was continually passed up for many appointments because I was too young or not a high enough rank. The Sgts. they used instead of me usually came to me so I could tell them what they were suppose to be doing for say flag party. It was annoying but I shut up and did what I was suppose too. Being passed up for these appointments just made me try harder-so it might have been a good thing in the end. I think Condor888000 is right, why should age and T.I be considered at all?


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