# Just got word...NO.



## shostakovich (27 Feb 2004)

Glad to see there‘s a forum like this. OK, heres my situation: am 34 yrs old, 2 young kids, married. Attempted to apply to ROTP (Nursing Officer), with poor high school marks, straight A‘s from four credits at Univ. of Waterloo, and 90‘s in academic upgrades (those were the prereq‘s to apply for NUR). Got word yesterday that despite recruiting serg. best efforts, admissions panel decided that high school marks indicate poor student performance, and concerns re: full time study. (This despite 3 jobs, family, two years of working towards this, and still obtaining 90‘s). So, the decision is made. (So much for the desperate state of the need for personnel in the CF. Not that I‘m bitter, I realized that the marks from 20 years ago might be an obstacle).
So, my question is this: What now? The recruiting serg. told me to try non-com med tech because my marks are good enough, but how many 34 yr old first privates are there out there? I‘m in shape, but boot could tear me apart when I‘m up against the rest of those kids. Maybe go reserves, get med tech, go reg later?
Also, the NUR job meant only one of four base hospitals across Canada, and not a lot of moving. I spoke with a buddy of mine that used to be a Med A and he was in training and bounced around like nuts, and that it was no job for someone with kids. Any advice?


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Feb 2004)

You can‘t appeal their descion?


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## shostakovich (27 Feb 2004)

Thanks for your quick reply. Indications from the recruiting serg. are that the decision is made. I‘m calling them on mon a.m. to see if I have any recourse or other options, but Serg. says no appeal.


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## shostakovich (27 Feb 2004)

Thanks for your quick reply. Indications from the recruiting serg. are that the decision is made. I‘m calling them on mon a.m. to see if I have any recourse or other options, but Serg. says no appeal.


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## CDNBlackhawk (27 Feb 2004)

sorry to hear that, But unless i missed somthing, wouldnt you have to do Basic training anyways, Honestly their is alot of  men and women who are in their 30‘s who go through basic with no problems and get better marks then alot of the young ones.


Being an Officer means you have more of a leadership role once you are put in a unit Basicly and means a bit more pay.

If he recommended you go Non Commisioned, i would do that for sure if thats what ytou want to do, besides NCO Basic is shother then Officer Basic training.


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## shostakovich (27 Feb 2004)

Basic isnt the problem, I think I‘d actually enjoy it. The issue for me is how much moving around would be involved for my kids, how many other CF members are there with kids that are in the Jr. ranks, and how much training, course work etc is involved? I keep hearing that army personnel are never home anymore,and the impact on my family is the deciding factor here. 
 I‘d really enjoy the Med Tech job, dont get me wrong. 
Blackhawk, you said "Lots". How many old gits like me have you seen? 
Are there any other CF members out there who signed up at my age? I‘d appreciate hearing from you.


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## bossi (27 Feb 2004)

I‘m puzzled - normally, if you were applying for officer, you would have been interviewed by an officer ...

Is this a recruiting sergeant at a CFRC (Canadian Force Recruiting Centre)?

Also - you would have written some "aptitude tests" - were your scores high enough for Nurse?
What were your math marks like?
Were you accepted to a school of nursing somewhere?


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## shostakovich (27 Feb 2004)

Thanks for your reply.
1. I hadnt reached the interview stage....I had paid initial visits to the recruiting serg. to out line my plan and make sure I did what they wanted step by step.
2. This was a recruiting serg. at a CFRC.
3. Strangely, (and I had been wondering about this) I hadnt written the Apt. test yet.....I wanted to have the ground work laid out first....
4. My HIGH SCHOOL mark (20 years ago), was 50. My CURRENT math mark (Grade 12 academic, as per the NUR pre-reqs) is 92.
5.I was told to apply to ROTP first, then apply to the nursing Univ. I had contacted the Univ., and they told me that I was an ideal candidate, and my chances for acceptance were excellent. All they were waiting for was my Chemistry mark. (Current avg. 94.5). (I realize that means nothing, but it gave me the means to comunicate to CF my intentions and potential).


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## chrisf (27 Feb 2004)

1. Abbreviation for Sergeant is Sgt.

2. There is no such thing as "boot camp" in Canada. It‘s called basic training (As it is in the united states as well I believe, but the nick name boot camp does not exist in Canada).

3. There is no such thing as Private First Class in Canada. The ranks are Private Untrained (PteR), which is no chevron, and Private Trained (Pte) which is a single chevron.

Now, that the anal things are out of the way (    ).

On the subject of your age, there will likely be people older then you on your basic training, and assuming you‘re in semi-decent shape, there will be people almost young enough to be your children who are in worse shape then you. Don‘t worry about that. The oldest on my basic training was 43.

With regards to the reserves, it‘s a good idea, apply there first, and try it on for size, it‘ll give you an idea if you like it before you jump face and eyes into the regs with a family in tow.


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## shostakovich (28 Feb 2004)

Thanks for the info......I guess if I knew that I was going to basic, I‘d know what to call it.
I‘ve been hearing a lot of "old gits" like me making it through basic and enjoying it. My father in law knows a 51 yr old Pvt.
How does the Med Tech training work in reserves?


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## Garry (28 Feb 2004)

Laybolt,

If you want to be a nurse, do the first year yourself. It‘s be a pia, but possible- student loans, etc.

Once you have your first year complete, show up with your transcript. If they need nurses (and they always seem to, especially males) you‘re in.

Once in, the Military picks up all your tuition and you get paid as well. 

Suggestion- don‘t take my opinion as gospel- go to the recruiter and ask! Also, make sure that the pay while under training is enough to take care of your family.

Cheers-Garry


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## shostakovich (29 Feb 2004)

Yeah, I think I‘ve decided to apply to Univ. myself, and complete 1st year on my own. Its really unfortunate though, because all of second year will be spent applying and waiting, and I wont know anything until the end of second year. I would really have been grateful for the ROTP to have kicked in and made Univ. possible without concerns over trying to earn a salary at the same time. Ironic: they want to see how you can do in full-time study, but since you will have to work AND go to school, your marks are bound to be lower than if you were under CF sponsorship and could focus on your course work. I would have liked to have the opportunity to tell them that I am looking at this as a CAREER, not a way to get a free degree, then buy my way out of the CF. (Which is rampant right now). It will be a tight couple of years on my kids, and I was hoping not to put them through that.....but such is life. 
I was watching CPAC last night and a general was discussing how the Med. trades were distressed and how they were trying to tailor recruiting to address those needs.....I have a great idea they could use....how about not turning away the people who really want to work for them for an extended career, instead of shutting them down BEFORE they write the CFAT.
So, its off to Nursing School, then I‘ll add it to my app. file. This is not the kind of goal to give up on.


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## casing (1 Mar 2004)

Well, I‘m a bit confused. Are you saying that you were told "no" even though you haven‘t actually applied to enroll into the CF?  It isn‘t the recruiting Sgt who makes the decision on your application. Garry gave you some good advice about doing 1st year uni on your own. Additionally, I say you should apply anyway. The worst that can happen is that in the end they will tell you "no". On the upside, the answer might be "yes"!  But even if "no" is the result, you benefit from having gone through the application process once already and gaining that experience and any insight it‘ll provide. It‘ll make things easier for you next time.  Plus you won‘t have to do some parts of the application process (such as the aptitude test) again if you apply only one year later.  Also, if you apply you will more than likely get your interview with a recruiting officer.  That is when you can really lay your cards on the table and tell the CF what you can do for the CF and what you hope to accomplish.  And the recruiting officer will be able to provide you with much more information than you seem to have already gotten by just talking to a Sgt down at the CFRC.

Also, don‘t worry about your age.  Like others have said, there are plenty of folks who have gone through at an "advanced" age, and plenty more in the application process.  Myself included (do my CFAT tomorrow morning, I‘m 33).  The only concern I have about your whole situation is the deal with your kids.  You expressed a concern about moving around much.  Well, as a nursing officer there would be an excellent chance of you being posted on deployments overseas.  So you‘d best take that into consideration.

All in all, good luck!


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## shostakovich (1 Mar 2004)

Casing:
Thanks for the post.
First, yes, they did say dont bother this year and to do my first year of nursing first. That was not the sgt. talking....she had appeared before a board on my behalf. (Which, by the way, is apparently how they do selections now...two part app). The first app. is sent in, they decide wether or not to proceed by weeding out those who they decide need more to qualify. If you pass that, you are sent the 2nd app. package. Then you write the CFAT and do the physical).
That procedure was confirmed by CFRC today when I called.
So, I wasnt offered the opportunity to write the CFAT. 
(I have someone looking into this for me at CFRC).
I believe that if I had been given the chance to tell someone how strongly that I never set out or wanted to be a Civvie nurse and that, as far as Im concerned, military nursing is the only way to do nursing properly. This could have shown them that I wasnt looking for a free four year degree
and then buy my way out.....which I also had confirmed is happening a lot lately. 
Thanks a lot for the encouragement re: us old timers, and the absoulute best of luck on the CFAT tom. Here‘s a tip: know the meaning of the word Sequacious. My brother in law wrote it this A.M., and that was on the language section. Maybe you‘ll get that version. 
As far as the kids go, they have been a part of the decision to go for this since I started working on the pre-req‘s for nursing. The moving was a concern when I was considering settling for medic, because of the shorter contracts, and the possibility of being posted anywhere. With NUR, I can only be posted to a base Hosp, and there are only 4. We are ready to manage an overseas posting, and have all accepted that this will be part of the deal.
Again, good luck tomorrow, I hope you nail it! Maybe you could let me know how you made out?


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## shostakovich (1 Mar 2004)

By the way, Ive decided to definitely go to Univ. for the first year on my own and resubmit my app....or, if they‘ll let me, keep my file open and mail in my marks as I go along, just to show them I‘m not going away until they give me a shot.


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## casing (3 Mar 2004)

Appeared before a board on your behalf? That‘s a new one on me. Perhaps it‘s part of the efforts to streamline the recruiting processes.

Passed the CFAT. Don‘t know how well I did, of course.  For officer applicants they just tell you passed, or failed. I‘m quite good at doing aptitude tests, but previous comments in other threads about alocating enough time to finish the test are dead on.  I went through it pretty quickly without guessing at anything and I still had no time left in the vocabulary and spatial tests. For the math section, which is much longer, I had 2.5 minutes left to review. So make sure you pay attention to how much time you have left. If you do the computer-based test, then when the time is up, it‘s up. Not like writing an exam in school when they say "pencils down" and everyone scribbles a few last remarks or whatever.


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## shostakovich (3 Mar 2004)

Congratulations, Casing.
My brother in law said to give yourself 1 min/question.
That sound about right?
Did they give you any idea on how long until the next step?


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## fusilier955 (3 Mar 2004)

> I‘m puzzled - normally, if you were applying for officer, you would have been interviewed by an officer


My interveiw was done by a CWO, it really isnt important who does it.

laybolt- You might want to check the ages for accpetance in to ROTP, i thought 22 was the cut off age.  Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt there a special program for Nursing that you could capitalize on in the CF, or is it just Medical and Dental in the healthcare sector?

If that dont work out for you you could just join up as an NCM and use the $20 000 credit that every member of the Reg Force CF gets toward furthering your education (ROTP grads I believe are a bit different since they got their bachalor degree from the CF) and remuster into the Officer Corps as a Nurse.


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## casing (3 Mar 2004)

Doh... ignore this please.


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## casing (3 Mar 2004)

Double post


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## casing (3 Mar 2004)

1 min per question for the math section, sure. For the others, no.  About 20 seconds per question, or thereabouts.  The CFAT really isn‘t difficult.  Of all the question there were 3 or 4 that I wasn‘t sure about, but you can make a pretty good guess since it‘s multiple choice. So don‘t get all stressed about it.  Actually, I considered the CFAT this time around to be much easier than when I did it in 1990. Back then there were a lot of time and distance questions, as well as a bunch of question where you had to convert imperial measurements to metric and vice-versa, and even some electrical questions (as in related to AC/DC power, Ohms, that sorta thing).  Now, I‘m not saying those types of questions aren‘t still asked, but you won‘t struggle with them much if you don‘t know those topics.

For the next step I received a message this morning to call and book my interview and medical assessment.  I‘ll call this afternoon and book those.


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## shostakovich (3 Mar 2004)

Well, it sounds like you‘re on your way, Casing.
I‘ve gotta tell you, I really appreciate the info, and the knowledge that someone my age is shooting for this too.
If you dont mind, could you keep in touch re: this whole process, and I‘ll keep track, so that I can collect as much info as possible. (The threads here are good for that, too).
As for me, I‘m going into the Nursing school tom. and picking up my application package for that, with the intent to start in Sep, keep my job, and send my Nursing Univ. app. into the CFRC down here to keep my file open. I‘m also going to send them my marks AS I GET THEM to keep my name in their heads....the Sgt. that is there is excellent for stuff like that. I‘m going to call her this week and let her know what I‘m doing.
What are you looking at as an MOC?
Fusilier 955: 
The Recruiting Sgt. told me that I can qualify at my age, and the "board" that assessed my app. at CFRC didnt have any problem with it. They did, however, have a problem with my original high school marks. They are pitiful. My upgrades, however, are all mid 90‘s, but they didnt take that into consideration. They told me to go to school and show them how I can do in FULL TIME studies for my first year, then come back.
So, I am going to do just that.
The only "special program" is that they pay a DEO NUR a signing bonus. Dental and Medical officer programs also contain perks. When I heard how badly they wanted medical personnel, I thought it was a great opportunity to get my degree paid for, AND start a military career. Turns out too many people have recieived the degree, then bought out. So, I have to prove my intentions.
Remustering is/was a possibilty, but the word "remuster" is a scary one with a lot of CF personnel that I have spoken with, and I have a young family to consider if I choose to take on an MOC that will mean more than nine months away from home. (Or, take a MOC that doesnt require as much training, only to have the CF tell me after a few years that there arent any jobs open in NUR, or the remuster I was shooting for wont happen. They are telling people with PILOT‘S LICENCES that, despite their app. to the air force, they are now in the Army, so welcome aboard).
I‘ve gotta say, for a civvie looking into the CF, this forum and the people who respond to questions make a great impression. 
Thanks to all posts!


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## CWeb26F (9 Mar 2004)

Hi laybolt,

Sorry to hear they wouldn‘t let you continue in the process b/c of your high school marks from so long ago. I agree with everybody that the powers that be will take a second look once you have a year full-time down. After that it might not matter- I am currently applying for NUR ROTP and have a bad year at univ. from 7 years ago- but have completed College with a 3.8 GPA in the last 2 years. They let me past the front desk- i.e. booked me in for tests.

Where did you hear that you can only be posted to one of 4 base hospitals in Canada (though maybe there are only 4 left). All bases have a CFMS presence- for example Cold Lake has an MIR- kind of like a clinic. There were nurses there when I was there 3 years ago. 

Just curious, but how do you think being a military nurse will be different than being a civilian nurse? I just became an R.N.

Also, if you have any questions on the Medic (Med A) trade my ex was a Medic, I could ask him for you


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