# Children of today not knowing what Rememberence day is?



## BradM (26 Jul 2004)

I find it sickening that kids today have no idea/don't care what Rememberence Day is.
My cousins have no idea, they just think it is that stupid day when they have to sit in a warm gym for 2 hours and sing the national anthem.

I wish there was more of a way to identify with kids, and more knew what it was all about.

 Vets.


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## ramy (26 Jul 2004)

kids of today are brats.

Seems like we need a war for them to realize the sacrifices being made to us...........


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## Sundborg (26 Jul 2004)

Maybe they need to sit down and watch a few war history movies; or, join cadets.


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## fred (26 Jul 2004)

I live in a small community and one of the things our local legiom does is dispatch a squad
of legion memebers to each school. This allows us to visit classrooms and interact with the 
students the results have been excellent.


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## canuck101 (26 Jul 2004)

They are not learning Canadian history.  They know more about American history then Canadian.  Each province has their own slant on history. there should be a standard that every province should have to meet. I was lucky my father and his sister were both in the military.  I also had family that died in WW2.  So i personally know what a sacrifice it was then for them and that is why i live in a free country called Canada Today.


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Jul 2004)

History isn't even taught in Alberta; it is called "social studies".  Not all kids should be painted with the same brush, though.

And check out We Stand On Guard in Ottawa - several thousand junior high school kids got treated to a large encampment of historical re-enactors, from the French and Indian Wars right up to World War Two and Korea.  It is an annual event there sponsored by the local school system and held on school property.

If kids aren't learning history, ask yourself - what are YOU doing to teach them?  Leaving it for the History Channel?


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## Guardian (26 Jul 2004)

What little history IS taught in Canadian schools glosses over our wartime record. Peacekeeping, however, features prominently, but not the 130-odd Canadian troops who have died doing it in the last 50 years.

The average young person today doesn't think about the military much. If he/she does, they're likely to think of such things as the Somalia affair, decrepit Sea Kings, and the cancelled Avro Arrow, rather than the victories at Juno Beach, Kapyong, and Vimy. They see their military as an embarrassment rather than the guarantor of the freedoms the cherish and enjoy. And they assume it's always been that way....

Part of it's probably the mindset of today's culture - a mindset of entitlement. It seems young people these days (my generation...) have a far higher sensitivity to their "rights" and "privileges" - what society owes them - than they do of their "duties" and "responsibilities." They generally have no concept, no idea, that their right to a health card, to government assistance for education, to free speech and expression, and to sue mommy and daddy when they get spanked (in some cases) was paid for in blood - the blood of kids their own age, less than a lifetime ago. There's little sense that "rights" and "privileges" never come free.

Hence why you get such events as the desecration of the War Memorial last year before the Remembrance Day service.

That's my two cents....      :crybaby:


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## dutchie (26 Jul 2004)

Over the last 10 years with the prominence of UN/NATO Peacekeeping in the news, particularly in the FRY, all Canadians, including youth, have a greater appreciation for the Military. Obviously our image took a huge hit with Somalia, but it seems to have rebounded. 9/11 has helped, with our troops deployed to a warzone (Afghanistan) for the first time since the gulf, and the first time for our ground forces since Korea. 

That is not to say that the prominence of the Military, and the sacrifice of it's current and former members, is not where it should be. The simple fact is that the vets of WW2 are no longer in positions of influence, as they were in the 50's-mid70's. What's left of them are sadly very senior citizens for the most part. Our collective memory of WW2 is dying with them, and as such, WW2 will be to the next generation what the Boer War was to us (I'm 29) - a war fought not by our fathers, not by our grandfathers, but possibly by our great-grandfathers. I am lucky, as my children will have a grandfather that altough didn't fight in WW2, he lived through it as a young tyke in Holland.

I anticipate that this lack of focus on a major conflict is a temporary 'problem', and that soon enough, we will be called on to fight in a major international conflict. 

I encourage all currently or formerly serving to pressure schools and MPs to emphasize in school curriculum the sacrifices of soldiers not just in WW2, but also Korea, the Middle East, Cyprus, Yugo, etc. These conflicts, fought by the current youth's fathers and grandfathers, will have much more relevance and impact than the stories of WW1/2.

IMHO


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## Scott (26 Jul 2004)

When I was still with PRes, every year we did several things surrounding Remembrance Day ie church services, parades in various communities and school services. As a member of a unit that went overseas during the wars I did what I could to educate the kids about MY unit and the contribution that it, and the locals that served it, made during those campaigns.

Today I educate the younger members of my family on the contributions made by my family to the Services during the Wars. Hopefully this will plant the seed in them so that they pursue it further. In fact, my 15 year old cousin just finished a project on her Great Uncle Emile who was a Sergeant/Pilot killed in Belgium during the Second World War. She was amazed to learn that the Germans had given him a full Military funeral even when they were still fighting us, after some research, she learned that this practice was not uncommon during the early years of the war but was usually limited to Airmen from both sides. It was amazing for me to see this girl go so hard at trying to figure this stuff out and then find a way to present it. Is it enough? I don't know, time will tell, hopefully she can pass that story on to her kids.

We DO need more Canadian history taught in our classrooms, parents need to speak up and take a more active part in their kids education, it is, really, up to each and every one of us. Parents to ensure that their kids are learning their history, teachers to ensure the curriculum is inclusive of our history, military and otherwise and the members of the military who must do their part to help educate the future politicians who may slash our budgets.

Just thoughts.

Cheers


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## mista_mo (26 Jul 2004)

Those war documentarys don't work. They just laugh at the veterens who are crying. It sickened me to hear them ridicule those veterens who were crying..it disgusted me actually.


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## johnny_boy (26 Jul 2004)

I can't speak for all of Canada, and I can't speak for all teens, but I feel fairly confident in saying your view of Canadian kids/teens is not very accurate.


I am 18 years old, and just graduated from Queen Elizabeth High School in Halifax, Nova Scotia. In Nova Scotia, it is mandatory to take a CDN History course, and you CAN NOT graduate high school with out it. In addition several different social studies courses are offered from Sociology, to Global History, all focus in on Canada in some shape or forum and its relation to the world. In Global History, (focused on the end of WW2 to current) Canada's involvement in the Cold War to the War on Terror was discussed, debated, and everyone knows about conflicts Canada was in , as well as lives lossed. To say kids don't know about it, is entirely untrue. Now, whether or not they care or respect is another story. In my school, you'll have (as with any school) for lack of better words, rebels. Not really hippies, but kids who feel they know everything and everything is wrong. If you say it, they want to disagree. There are people like these who don't seem to respect the contributions made, and lives lost. They know what Rememberance Day is, they know what it stands for, they know about our soldiers who died, but they choose not to care, or show they care. So to say that they are uneduated is not fair, they certainly know what is going on but sadly many choose not to acknowledge.

Granted I will agree that there are some who just don't know. But that is not *every* kid or teenager in Canada. I truely believe they are a small minority. The vast majority of my school knows the sacrifices made, and can name where Canadians are fighting or have fought.

And for Ramy who said

"kids of today are brats.

Seems like we need a war for them to realize the sacrifices being made to us..........."

That's the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. Tell a veteran that we need another war. They fought so the other generations shouldn't have to, and we owe them for that.

You have to remember that this is a completely different erra, generation, with different influences, and values. No longer is it the WW2 time when people rally around the flag and being in the Forces was honourable. Media, Internet, TV has opened all of our eyes to what war is, and what goes on. This has changed perceptions and people think of things differently. To say kids are ignorant and brats because they don't seem to show the same amount of respect as you do isn't fair. #1 they are kids and have different interests, as time goes and they grow their interests will change and will probably come to respect and be thankful of their older generations. 

Enough ranting here, just it offended me to see some of these posts knocking the youth of Canada. And I feel I can say that is not true and  most people I know respect veterans and what was done by CF members. There are a few who don't care/don't know, but they are a minority. I feel it would be the exact same for me to generalize that all people in the military are abusive killers based on what's going on in Iraq and even what our own Canadian Airborne has done. But that would be untrue, and very inaccurate. I know better, and so does my generation.


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## mista_mo (26 Jul 2004)

i'm just going by my expeirnece..I'm still in High school, and during our history class we watched many war films/documentaries. a few of the kids in the class acted like complete assholes. I know most of the teenagers aren't like that, but some are.


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## scm77 (26 Jul 2004)

Guardian said:
			
		

> The average young person today doesn't think about the military much. If he/she does, they're likely to think of such things as the Somalia affair, decrepit Sea Kings, and the cancelled Avro Arrow, rather than the victories at Juno Beach, Kapyong, and Vimy. They see their military as an embarrassment rather than the guarantor of the freedoms the cherish and enjoy. And they assume it's always been that way....



I couldn't agree more.  In school I read books and magazine/newspaper articles about the forces and people ask me stupid questions like "why's the canadian army so crappy?" and "why would you want to waste your life for that?".


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## Bert (28 Jul 2004)

Johnny-boy makes good points.

I don't know if blaming the today's younger people of apathy makes sense.  Being taught history and 
experiencing it are two different things.  

Generally, everyone has learned about WW1 and WW2 in history class and considered a world under
nazi Germany if they'd won.  Baby boomers and GenXs have grandparents or relatives that fought or 
died in WW2 or Korea.  Effects of those times are experienced in us everyday.

Children or young people of today do not have a personal touch with Rememberance Day.  They
see images of the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, the Gulf War today, Afganistan, whats going on in 
Africa and the old Yugoslavia, and other places at other times.   I remember my Grandfather, 
his WW2 medals, the stuff he brought back, the things he'd talk about, and the things he 
wouldn't.  Definitely my niece cannot have the same experience.  Her only connection with
Rememberance Day is what she sees on TV, what shes taught in school, military parades
she sees, and all the crap that happens in the rest of the world.  North American and Europe have
enjoyed relative peace for many decades so my niece's context (a comfortable secure life) is 
different from a child growing up in the mid-1940s.  Its human nature.   

Events that are within our experience are easily remembered.  Those events that are not or
took place 100 or more years ago slowly fade to dust without history books.  Anyone have
relatives who fought in the Boer War?


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## Spanky (29 Jul 2004)

Please allow me to jump in here.  I am a teacher.  I have been at this game for quite awhile.  The students I have been working with are at the elementary level (up to grade 8).  Most of them are simply not aware of our history.  A small minority are disrespectful as you would find in any segment of society.  It is not their fault that they are ignorant of the issues and our proud military history.  It is too far away from their personal experience.  They should consider themselves lucky.  
The youth of other parts of the world are far too aware of war.  Even in Western Europe, who has not seen war in fifty years, the youth are far more aware.  There are reminders everywhere, in the form of cemetaries, monuments etc.
It is not the fault of our youth.  It is ours!
My school board just received a new social studies program.  I am very unhappy with it, as it is WAY too PC.  As a member of the reserves I am able to provide a different slant to my students.  They are very aware of my involvement with the military, and as a result are a little more aware of military issues, and our history.  To those of you who feel that our curriculum does not do the job; you are right.  As was mentioned earlier, the way to change that is to lobby your provincial member of parliament, as curriculum is a provincial thing.  Those of you who are parents have a huge amount of influence.
Talk to your units to try and set up some type of school visitation program where schools or at least individual classes can be exposed to the military.
Again, it is not the fault of youth for their ignorance, it is ours.  It is a fault adults can change.
This is July, and I've written far too much. :blotto:


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## Jack Neilson (29 Jul 2004)

There are some interesting observations on this thread.   The Memory Project, run by the Dominion Institute have a web page at http://www.thememoryproject.com/ which I think you may find of value.   They will provide a comprehensive series of pamphelets giving timelines and personal stories of the World Wars, Korea and Peacekeeping/Cold War stories and information from personal viewpoints as well as a video and suggestions for teachers and students, on request from schools and service clubs.   The school can then request a visit from a list of veterans or registered serving members who have attended a workshop and are prepared to give presentations and answer questions in the classroom.   This project has been very successful and well received by teachers and students alike.   The website also contains both written and spoken memories of various veterans and feedback from students.


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## Maria3a (29 Jul 2004)

Was reading through the thread and just wanted to comment on a few things.. fwiw 

The point about.. every generation having its war, I think is very correct.   Sadly, now this generation is going to find out in "fact", not in.. theory.   Someone remembering his father.. I remember finding my father's trunk in the attic (He died when I was three), uniform, medals, letter, Reports..

Some of it is here 

http://www.glanmore.org/gvf/jri1.html

I guess what I'm trying to say is that.. What an honor he was..   When I found years later that he, in fact, suffered terribly from PTSD, he became even more of one.

Liking history regardless,   I started reading about the Chindits, watching the World at War   - especially Part XIV - the BCI theatre (called:   It'll be a loverley day tomorrow), and reading "Reach for the Sky" and "The Desert Fox" - my father's books.   Forgotten armies.   Things like that.

Then came VietNam - my generation's war.   Close to the bone. what happened to those vets when they came home.

Now this..   and the PPCLI, RCR...   We are in it now.. and we really need to support our guys.. alot.

I saw a movie called "Regeneration" awhile back - which I do, in point of fact,   believe they should show in schools..   It a true story - Wilfrid Owen and Seigfried Sassoon at Craiglockhart Hospital, WW1.   (available at your local video store probably).

I caught my son going out of the house wearing a miniature set of my father's medals that I had had made for him.   I think he was in Grade IX, something like that.. I had to explain the difference between a shadow box and a fashion statement to him <G - a dose of mom's reality therapy - I take no truck with that.. asked him if he knew what a Drill Instructor was <G>)..   but still, the fact he even did it in the first place..

I think Canada - as a foreign policy - likes to present itself as.. neutral and anti-war (somewhere in that constellation) on the international scene.   I have no problem with that at all (who "wants" war).   The problem I have is that it somehow seems to have bled over to how we treat our vets/military -   like a.. "secret" of the Victorian genre - something one just doesn't talk about, etc.   ...   When what we should in fact do.. mark the honor, courage and duty that it requires.   

You are all correct - we really do need to honor those who serve "more" and even that, would not be enough.

Regards,

Anne


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## dutchie (29 Jul 2004)

That was a great post Anne.

I am sure there are a lot more civilians like you out there, I just wish they spoke up more.





Cheers


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## combat_medic (30 Jul 2004)

I remember when I was in high school, about 1994-ish, a PPCLI officer came to my social studies class and spoke to us for two periods about his time in Yugo. While I don't remember exactly which tour he was on, he mentioned a great deal about the ethic cleansing that was taking place during his time there. He spoke for about 2 hours and fielded just about every question we could think of. This was just before Remembrance Day and it made a huge impact in our lives (can you even imagine a class of 30 teenagers shutting up and just listening for 2 straight hours?!). Even several years later we all still talked about it. For kids, especially teenagers, reading a sanitized version of history that happened before your parents were even born seems irrelevant and distance. This officer made that "history" a lot more real to all of us.

I think it would be a great idea if more guys who have experience overseas were to do the same thing. I think it puts more of a human face to the military, to war or peacekeeping, as the case may be, and to lend more relvance to a bunch of kids who have grown up in complete comfort and luxury their whole lives. 

Oh, and if I ever get the chance, I would really like to thank that officer who spoke to my class.


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## Scott (30 Jul 2004)

In relation to combat_medic's post, what really affected me was talking to my course staff and hearing about their experiences when they did tours. I was fortunate enough to have some ex-Airborne staff along with members of 2RCR and several PRes Seargents who had gone overseas, some more than once. Patrolling theory made sense to me after hearing of one NCO's experiences in the Balkans, just as one example of the many things I learned. But more than just trade craft, I learned things that will someday be history to my grandkids or great grandkids....I'll be the grizzled old fart telling them that I knew some of the men who helped to write it or were just there to experience it. Along with that it always seemed that someone from my unit was telling me of things that the unit had done during the wars, that also stays with me.

Just Thoughts

Cheers


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## Limpy (1 Aug 2004)

If you want kids today to understand sacrifices that allows them to have slack idle minds then conscript them right out of High School and send them to all those countries that settle disputes with war and machine gun and watch as mind sets clue into the fact freedom ain't free. Of course this would never happen. Though.


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