# Afghan Roto in Aug 06



## strauss (14 Dec 2005)

Does anyone know which bde is/if being deployed? Also, would this be Roto6?

Thanks


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## meni0n (14 Dec 2005)

Coming out of Pet.


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## Franko (14 Dec 2005)

It's no longer Op Athena.....it's Op Archer, and it'll be roto 2.

The force will be out of Pet...consisting of what I have no idea.

I can't wait to get out of this place..........

Regards


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## strauss (14 Dec 2005)

To speculate further, would that be RCD as the main battlegroup?
Also, A more stupid question what medal does Archer get? Athena was the star like medal, is this the same or is it the general service ISAF? kinda curious. . .


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## meni0n (14 Dec 2005)

Can't speculate as it already changed 16 times how many troops are going from the RCD.


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## SIG MITCH (15 Dec 2005)

get a campaign star, with bar reading afghan...


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## Tracker 23A (15 Dec 2005)

1 VP was told it will be 1 RCR.


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## silentbutdeadly (15 Dec 2005)

Its 1 RCR, they have already been told and to start there training in the new yr!


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## Good2Golf (15 Dec 2005)

SIG MITCH said:
			
		

> get a campaign star, with bar reading afghan...



CANFORGEN 112/05 says SWASM while BG is under CFC-A/CJTF-76 (OEF).

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/8_05/8_05_dhh_swasm_e.asp

Once CFC-A hands control of RC(S) over to ISAF, it will then be the Campaign Star with bar.


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## Hoover (15 Dec 2005)

I've heard there is also a NATO medal being handed out to PERS deployed to Afghani right now.


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## Franko (16 Dec 2005)

Hoover said:
			
		

> I've heard there is also a NATO medal being handed out to PERS deployed to Afghani right now.



No there isn't...at least not to any ground troops. The GCS is the medal being handed out for this one. Mind you some of us are getting the SWASM due to the fact that we changed operations in mid-tour.

There was the Non-Article 5 NATO medal passed out from NATO...and that will not be allowed to be worn by Canadian soldiers due to the fact they can only award one medal for one operation, the GCS.

That is a sore point for the troops who did Roto 3 Op Athena.

Regards


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## COBRA-6 (16 Dec 2005)

+1 on what Franko said.

There is a NATO medal with ISAF bar, but Canadians do not get it because we recieve the GCS with ISAF bar. 

NATO HQ is now aware of this policy, after the roto 3 problems...


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## reccecrewman (20 Dec 2005)

I did Roto 3 and received both the GCS and NA5 w/ ISAF bar.  The NA5 was handed to the troops by their Troop Officer and told it was meant as a "gift" or "souvenir" Call it what you will, in any event, it cannot be worn.  I had mine mounted anyway by itself and is hanging in a little 1 medal shadow box on my wall along side all my other Certificates and Awards etc.


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## MacKenzie1NSH (20 Dec 2005)

there are rules on how many people from a nation can get medals per tour and opperation?


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## reccecrewman (21 Dec 2005)

Uhhhhhhh.......... Ya.  The rule is simple - 1 medal per operation.  I received my Campaign Star for my service on Op Athena Roto 3 with an ISAF bar on the ribbon.  I ALSO received a NATO NA5 medal that also says ISAF on it's bar.  That means I can only have one mounted and worn on my uniform as you cannot wear 2 medals for the same operation.  Since the GCS is higher than the NA5 medal, that is the one I wear.  An exception is if you go do a peacekeeping tour for the first time, you will receive the medal for the operation plus the CPSM medal.  But, the CPSM is a non-specific medal that merely recognizes the fact that you did a peacekeeping tour - it is not confined to one operation.

Another twist - Guys who did Op Athena Roto 4 got the Campaign Star, but many of them also switched operations to Qandahar before coming home and thus fell into Op Archer, thereby qualifying them for the SouthWest Asia Service Medal.  They will be entitled to wear BOTH medals, even though they were only in Afghanistan for 4 1/2 months, but since they switched theatres & operations, they can wear both medals to reflect that.


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## pbi (21 Dec 2005)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> I did Roto 3 and received both the GCS and NA5 w/ ISAF bar.   The NA5 was handed to the troops by their Troop Officer and told it was meant as a "gift" or "souvenir" Call it what you will, in any event, it cannot be worn.   I had mine mounted anyway by itself and is hanging in a little 1 medal shadow box on my wall along side all my other Certificates and Awards etc.



Luck--eeee! I was told by HQ TFK that I couldn't even receive my NATO medal from ISAF, period. I still sit up nights crying about it.

Cheers


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## Franko (21 Dec 2005)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> Another twist - Guys who did Op Athena Roto 4 got the Campaign Star, but many of them also switched operations to Qandahar before coming home and thus fell into Op Archer, thereby qualifying them for the SouthWest Asia Service Medal.  They will be entitled to wear BOTH medals, *even though they were only in Afghanistan for 4 1/2 months*, but since they switched theatres & operations, they can wear both medals to reflect that.



 :

Alright then....I'm on month 5.5.....my tour ends in March totaling 8 months.

Some of us have to stay and work to get things ready for Roto 1 like sorting out the mess from Kabul.

Let's not even start to compare tours buds....last time I heard no one from your sqn was engaged by RPG fire or hit with IEDs. Was the camp rocketed...nope.

Can the sarcasm, suck it up and move on.

Regards


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## Fishbone Jones (21 Dec 2005)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> Uhhhhhhh.......... Ya.   The rule is simple - 1 medal per operation.   I received my Campaign Star for my service on Op Athena Roto 3 with an ISAF bar on the ribbon.   I ALSO received a NATO NA5 medal that also says ISAF on it's bar.   That means I can only have one mounted and worn on my uniform as you cannot wear 2 medals for the same operation.   Since the GCS is higher than the NA5 medal, that is the one I wear.   An exception is if you go do a peacekeeping tour for the first time, you will receive the medal for the operation plus the CPSM medal.   But, the CPSM is a non-specific medal that merely recognizes the fact that you did a peacekeeping tour - it is not confined to one operation.
> 
> Another twist - Guys who did Op Athena Roto 4 got the Campaign Star, but many of them also switched operations to Qandahar before coming home and thus fell into Op Archer, thereby qualifying them for the SouthWest Asia Service Medal.   They will be entitled to wear BOTH medals, even though they were only in Afghanistan for 4 1/2 months, but since they switched theatres & operations, they can wear both medals to reflect that.









Sorry, hope that's not to insensitive. As Franko and others have stated, there's a lot more to worry about over there than what bling-bling your going to get to wear. On Roto 0 we fought for and got the GCS, we refused the NA5 NATO, and some of us just got our GCS two months ago from that tour. I just can't bring myself to share your grief.


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## armyvern (21 Dec 2005)

reccecrewman said:
			
		

> Another twist - Guys who did Op Athena Roto 4 got the Campaign Star, but many of them also switched operations to Qandahar before coming home and thus fell into Op Archer, thereby qualifying them for the SouthWest Asia Service Medal.   They will be entitled to wear BOTH medals, even though they were only in Afghanistan for 4 1/2 months, but since they switched theatres & operations, they can wear both medals to reflect that.



That's wierd. Why is this occuring and what exactly is the justification for it? It seems to me that this did not occur previously upon roll-over/change in mission mandate from Op Apollo to Op Athena despite the large number of personnel involved.

Some Op Apollo Roto II personnel served 7 1/2 months in-theatre. 4 months as part of Op Apollo and it's mandate/mission and then the remaining 3.5 months as Op Athena under it's mission mandate. Why would they then, not have been awarded both the SWASM and the GCS/GCM?

This turn of events does not make sense to me, as clearly the mandates/missions/overseers of the Ops clearly changed in both cases? Why 2 medals for what is essentially one deployment in Op Athena/Op Archers case and not in the case of Op Apollo/Op Athena personnel?

Have we become a military where we are going to be getting medals for each course etc that we do? They'll need to be issuing me a bigger chest first. 

Does anybody out there have any insight as to exactly why the awarding of 2 medals for one tour is being condoned? Or any insight as to why it wasn't also applied to Op Apollo/Op Athena as well? This double-medalling does not make good sense to me. Just my .02.


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## Good2Golf (21 Dec 2005)

Armyvern, the first case cited would have gotten two medal as well, had the GCS existed in Apollo's day....but it didn't.

AFAIC, if Auntie Liz says you're entitle to something by her own rules, you should get it.

- 30 days in theatre or 90 days in support is what it takes to qualify for SWASM with bar.
- 30 days cumulative in theatre for the GCS w/ ISAF bar.

...easy to do in 4 1/2 months.  This is sequential, doing one after the other, not like th ecase of the GCS and the NATO non-Art 5 ribbon of earlier ATHENA rotos.

Cheers,
Duey


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## armyvern (21 Dec 2005)

Duey said:
			
		

> Armyvern, the first case cited would have gotten two medal as well, had the GCS existed in Apollo's day....but it didn't.
> 
> AFAIC, if Auntie Liz says you're entitle to something by her own rules, you should get it.
> 
> ...



I agree with you...but here's what confuses me.

Troops from 2RCR who came into theatre on the Op Athena TAT 3.5 months *after* we got there and who left theatre approx 1.5 - 2 months *before* we left were awarded the GCS/GCM as applicable. 

Therefore, although announced after their time in theatre (which co-incided with those who did Roto2 Apollo /TAT/ and Roto Zero Athena) it was made retroactive to include them. Why did it not include all who participated under the new Op tour and mandated missions? We were told we weren't being awarded it as well because you can only have ONE medal per deployment despite the fact the mission/mandate had changed. And really, I am really OK with that. 

So really the question is, why is it happening now for this tour? What new precedence has been set by this tour that was not set by the Apollo/TAT/Athena personnel?

 ???


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## Good2Golf (22 Dec 2005)

Hmmmm...can't answer that one.  The "retroactive" thing does sound questionable to me as it is not consisten with the qualification for medals as they existed during the period that service was rendered.  I still figure the Roto4 CM/KAF folks getting GCS & SWASM is consistent with the qualifying policies...just the earlier example is dodgy IMO.

Cheers,
Duey


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## Armymedic (22 Dec 2005)

Franko said:
			
		

> Let's not even start to compare tours buds....last time I heard no one from your sqn was engaged by RPG fire or hit with IEDs. Was the camp rocketed...nope.



Franko,
reccecrewman's been whining about his medals since he got back. But that doesn't mean that Roto 3 didn't have some of the "excitement" that the tour you are on has. BTW, with the work being done to move...there are people who are definately EARNing the right to get and wear 2 medals.

Ok...ENOUGH ABOUT THE GOD DAMN MEDALS.

Deep Breath...
OK, back on topic...

1 RCR lead in the BG. 2 RCHA with help is doing up the PRT. There is a group going to Kabul to carry on advisor roles and the Ca NTC (OP Argus), and another which will resume the ETT group in Kandahar area.
The TO & E is still as per Roto 1 and will be amended as required until after BTE in Wx end May.


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## Good2Golf (22 Dec 2005)

Minor detail, but ANTC(CA) and SAT-A (Op Argus) are close but seperate entities...we do get along, though!  ;D


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## Bartok5 (22 Dec 2005)

Let's get back to the medals.  MEDALS, I say!  Lets just admit that at the end of the day, it is ALL about the "BLING, BLING!!!"  Nothing else matters.  BLING, BLING, BLING, BLING!!  

I mean really...does anyone actually serve overseas for anything other than the chest-candy and bragging rights?   

Oh, wait - you mean to tell me that some of us actually serve for the sake of serving?  You mean to tell me that some people actually deploy on new missions with no idea of what sort of fiscal compensation or institutional recognition they might (might) receive?  I simply can't imagine.....

Here's a well-intentioned "hint".  What we collectively do on behalf of Canada is a calling, not a Mcjob.  Self-interested whiners with nothing more important to consider than "what they will receive" ought to be looking for meaningful employment elsewhere.  I've heard that Burger King offers fiscal incentives for overtime...

Really.  Where I currently serve, we have a bunch of folks who served on Op APOLLO with no clue as to what recognition (if any) they would eventually receive for their service under rather "austere" conditions.  At that very same place of work, we now have numerous soldiers dispatched on short-term deployments who receive the exact-same SWASM with Afghan bar as the Op APOLLO guys were awarded.  Is anyone complaining about "dues paid"?  I don't think so.  We all celebrate and recognize those who qualify for the formal recognition on an equal basis.  Nothing more, and certainly nothing less.  I've yet to hear any whining from the Op APOLLO crew.....

It is "head out of arse time" for any self-indulgent whiners who would stoop to complain about fellow soldiers (in circumstances beyond their personal control) receiving multiple medals for a single tour.  The same goes for anyone who would complain about the particular recognition that they were awarded (or weren't) for any given deployment.  Look up "petty" or "self-serving" in the dictionary.  Chances are that you will find a photo of your own self-pitying mug.  

Such talk is simply pathetic.  Really.  Where the heck is your head-space, and what is your motivation for posting such tripe on a public discussion board?  

Think about it.....


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## Infanteer (22 Dec 2005)

This thread rocks!


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## Haggis (22 Dec 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> This thread rocks!



Screw the thread, Infanteer..  That Smiley ROCKS!

You should get a medal for that.  ;D


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## Franko (22 Dec 2005)

:rofl:

Mark.....I detect a hint of sarcasm.

Regards


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## Good2Golf (23 Dec 2005)

MarkC is bang on target!  Heck, I'm pushing to come back here in something big that goes wokka-wokka, and I don't think that would get me any more salad (SWASMs don't have numbers for multiple bars, right?)  It's the experience with your buds that makes it worth it!

Cheers,
Duey


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## KevinB (23 Dec 2005)

I thought it was for the money and great accomodations  :


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## MacKenzie1NSH (24 Dec 2005)

Medals and money, M&M all the way!


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## Acorn (26 Dec 2005)

Crap - if I get two medals I'll have another uneven row. If I got one I'd even out the top row, and I could retire. Now I'll have to stay in to get two more to even out the new row. Please tell me it's not two gongs!!

And yes Mark, it's all about the bling. I remember the guy back in 1980 who had 3, swing mounted (a big deal in 1980). They'd clink together whenever he marched or moved. The guy got more.....oh never mind.

It's also about the bucks. Don't forget how important the tax break is these days. Cut that, and see how many sign up.

A calling? I once thought so. I still have some hope that it is for many. The boggle eyes of my last boss when I told her that the tax free $70k (yeah, I have lots of points) wasn't enough to get me to deploy with her messed up org....priceless.

Acorn


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## Britney Spears (26 Dec 2005)

I say we get rid of DEUs all together. There aren't enough hours in the day to do PT and listen to Pashtun tapes, and they still want me to get boot polish and brasso on my hands? I bet that stuff causes cancer too.


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## jmackenzie_15 (26 Dec 2005)

Britney Spears said:
			
		

> I say we get rid of DEUs all together. There aren't enough hours in the day to do PT and listen to Pashtun tapes, and they still want me to get boot polish and brasso on my hands? I bet that stuff causes cancer too.



Things you can encounter quite regularly in the CF that I suspect of causing cancer:

CLP
ELCAN optical sights
Freddychef/Wornick 'Food'
Decontamination sponges
Issued bug spray
Those glowing tree roots all over aldershot and some in gagetown.... how mysterious
The overall living conditions of the L-lines in gagetown ( okay they may not cause cancer, but for the love of god..)
and so on


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## Scott (26 Dec 2005)

Mack674 said:
			
		

> Things you encounter on a daily basis in the CF that I suspect of causing cancer:
> 
> CLP
> ELCAN optical sights
> ...



Those tree roots in Aldershot are navaids aren't they ;D? And you forgot to mention the haybox meal, the water in the old tent city area of Aldershot and any trench dug in the training area.


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## greydak (29 Dec 2005)

Has anyone heard deployment dates for this Roto?


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## George Wallace (29 Dec 2005)

It is in eight months......If you aren't already in the know and on training, you won't be going.


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## greydak (29 Dec 2005)

Training starts 01-Feb-05 for me.. But I'm still not in "the know"


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## Armymedic (29 Dec 2005)

greydak said:
			
		

> Training starts 01-Feb-05 for me.. But I'm still not in "the know"



Then, come 2 Feb, you'll be in the know. (end July to mid Feb would be my guess)


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## Gouki (29 Dec 2005)

And the odds for a newly trained Private to go on this tour are .. what?

I'm the new RMS for the RCD ROR. I've been told I do not have a good chance to go as I'm not in a Squadron yet, yet there are sometimes exceptions and thus remains a slight glimmer of hope.

Should I continue to look through my telescope at this glimmer of hope or should I just stop bothering for the time being?


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## Armymedic (29 Dec 2005)

Talk to your CC about it...He/She should be able to give you a better answer then what you'll get here.


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## meni0n (29 Dec 2005)

Steve, A Sqn already got a clerk so that position is filled. 

George, people have been nominated but no definite answer was given before christmas leave as the stand up is not until end of feb.


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## Roy Harding (29 Dec 2005)

Steve said:
			
		

> And the odds for a newly trained Private to go on this tour are .. what?
> 
> I'm the new RMS for the RCD ROR. I've been told I do not have a good chance to go as I'm not in a Squadron yet, yet there are sometimes exceptions and thus remains a slight glimmer of hope.
> 
> Should I continue to look through my telescope at this glimmer of hope or should I just stop bothering for the time being?



Steve,

I was the CC for 3 VP on Op APOLLO.  There are many, many, MANY factors your CC has to take into account -

   - is he responsible to man the RMS support for Rear Party, or will the supporting Base/Formation provide that?
   - what positions does he have to man on the TO&E?
   - which of his personnel meet the qualifactions required on the TO&E?
   - will he be told to give up positions on the TO&E so the CO can bring more bayonets?
   - does he have people with the experience required to "double hat" responsibilities?  (See point above)

All in all, only your CC can answer your question, so take Armymedic's advice and ask him/her.


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## Gouki (30 Dec 2005)

Yea know who got the position in A Sqn, can't help but feel envious but whatever they deserve it far more than I.

Medic, Harding, thanks for the advice.


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## KevinB (30 Dec 2005)

Steve said:
			
		

> Yea know who got the position in A Sqn, can't help but feel envious but whatever they deserve it far more than I.



Kneecap him/her playing hockey


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## Spring_bok (8 Jan 2006)

Mack674 said:
			
		

> Those glowing tree roots all over aldershot and some in gagetown.... how mysterious


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## pbi (8 Jan 2006)

Thanks, Mark. That was much needed.

Cheers


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## reccecrewman (10 Jan 2006)

> Let's not even start to compare tours buds....last time I heard no one from your sqn was engaged by RPG fire or hit with IEDs. Was the camp rocketed...nope.
> 
> Can the sarcasm, suck it up and move on.



Wow! Where to start with this one..................

Well, first of all, I was in no sence being sarcastic or a smart ass.  I'm not saying that guys on Roto 4 had an easy time because they were only in theatre for 4 1/2 months.  Go back and read my post and I was answering a Q about being allowed to wear multiple medals for the same operation.  (Essentially, it was the same answer YOU gave me when I asked it last September on this site and was quite satisfied with your explanation)  So, needless to say, you get all offeneded because I answered the same question I had several months ago to another individual and take it as an attack on the Roto 4 guys.  I apologize if my tone was interpreted as such, that was not the intent - my ONLY intent was to pass on information to another individual.  

The "even though Roto 4 guys got 2 for only being in Afghanistan 4 1/2 months" was not a slight, but an emphasis on the fact that they switched theatres and operations.  Again - my apologies

Now, I have to respond to your post.  Don't misinterpret this, I'm NOT trying to compare tours and say mine was tougher or more dangerous than yours, but I take a great offence to your comments.  YES, My Squadron DID have an IED strike.  Call Sign 27B was completely destroyed and it's crew sustained injury, the fact that the HumVee was uparmoured saved that crews as**es.  Just because they weren't RCD, they STILL were under the Squadrons control, doing the job for KMNB.  Not to mention the several other IED and mine related incidents that accured throughout Kabul and to the KMNB personnel.  There was an incident that also occured to a Patrol of RCD but I'm not going into that here.  A German soldier was killed on my tour.  No tour is the same, and again, I'm NOT saying my tour was more dangerous than yours, but don't try telling me that Roto 3 was all pie and the sky and then all of a sudden Roto 4 was frought with so much danger.  No, Roto 3 was not some horribly dangerous tour with incidents occuring steadily, yes, it was an uneventful tour for the most part in the sense of minestrikes, IED's and rocket attacks, but s*** still occured.


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## Franko (10 Jan 2006)

The tours are not the same at all...at least we can agree on that. Some stayed for 4 months (in actuality 5) the rest, like me are in for a possible very long haul...8 or more. Only approx 190 troops have gone home, there are well over 500 still here.

Seemed as though you were insinuating something else....that the tour was completely done at 4.5 months.

I suggest you figure out a better posting style....to alleviate the possibility of any further mis-understandings.   

Regards


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## reccecrewman (11 Jan 2006)

Will try that Franko - as I said, I wasn't trying to insinuate anything insulting - merely that even though many were only overseas for 4.5 months, they can still wear both medals if they qualify.  As stated, you clearly answered my similar question many months ago and all I was trying to do was pass that info to another with the same query.

Hope the last weeks go quickly for you.


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## Franko (11 Jan 2006)

More like months.....    :

Can't wait to finish and get back to a "normal" garrison life.

Regards


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## KevinB (12 Jan 2006)

OMG, its a fricken ribbon - who cares.

    reccecrewman dig the sand out of your vagina - you have consistantly whinned about this issue. Suck it up.


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## Bobbyoreo (12 Jan 2006)

Best luck to all on the next mission!!! Wish I could go....


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## Norm The Storm (12 Jan 2006)

Bobbyoreo said:
			
		

> Best luck to all on the next mission!!! Wish I could go....



Thank you very much from Valcartier and I'll pass your msg to the guy's leaving at the end of the month !!!!


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## Norm The Storm (12 Jan 2006)

OUPS!!!! I'm leaving in july if you want know


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## MG34 (15 Jan 2006)

KevinB said:
			
		

> OMG, its a fricken ribbon - who cares.
> 
> reccecrewman dig the sand out of your vagina - you have consistantly whinned about this issue. Suck it up.



Amen to that,of course a few others could do with a bit less whining and bitching like they are the only ones who have ever done a tour somewhere hostile....ahem Franko :


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## reccecrewman (16 Jan 2006)

KevinB, Took your advice, sand has been cleaned out    I'll go off in the corner and eat some crow pie now.  Point well taken and will comply.  ;D


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## Jarnhamar (17 Jan 2006)

I'm looking for a place to rent off base, is housing relatively cheap there?  
Would someone be able to rent a PMQ for 6 months?  6 months of life in the shacks being kept up all night is enough to make someone try and swallow a Frisbee.


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## reccecrewman (17 Jan 2006)

If you're referring to Pet, rent isn't too bad out on the economy (Depends on whether you have dependants back home who need your salary to live on)  You can check the local newspapaers (Petawawa Post or Pembroke News) to see if anybody has a furnished apartment for rent (Assuming thats what you want - you're only here 6 mos.)  Depending on how nice it is expect between $300-$450 for a single.  As far as the PMQ thing goes, can't answer that, but a PMQ poses the whole furniture and appliance problem, they're not furnished......


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## Journeyman (17 Jan 2006)

Ghost778 said:
			
		

> I'm looking for a place to rent off base, is housing relatively cheap there?



The way this thread has been bouncing around, I thought you were asking about *in-theatre*. Which, of course, begs the questions.....cave or tent?  With or without camels?

...and for those nursing some degree of gong-heartache...maybe you can still get a Golden Jubilee, or a 125 Anniversary ribbon.   ;D



			
				Duey said:
			
		

> Hmmmm...can't answer that one.  The "retroactive" thing does sound questionable to me



Hey, the First Special Service Force veterans _just_ got their Second World War Combat Infantryman Badges in August 2005.

See "USASOC awards CIBs to WWII vets" at  http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=7736


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## jmackenzie_15 (20 Jan 2006)

Is this rotation deploying in August? Or does the work up training with 1RCR begin then?

Theres work up starting sometime in may for the next rotation on which myself and other guys from the area will be joining 2RCR for, and im assuming that 2RCR will be relieving 1RCR... as far as I was told the actual deployment for that begins sometime next spring-late winter.


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## MikeM (20 Jan 2006)

Workup for TFA Roto 2 with 1 RCR Starts in February, we deploy in August.


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