# I Need Your Opinion Ref: negative feed back from family



## triggerhappy (19 Jul 2007)

Im starting Grade 12 soon, and really, joining the Canadian Forces is what Iv wanted to do my entire life. Im just encountering a lot of negative feed back from family, friends and my girl friend. They keep naging me to change my mind, to find a civi job and be like normal people. This frustrates me because I don't want a civi job, my whole life dream has been to become and Armoured Soldier or Infantry. My family feels that going right from High School into the Army is a bad idea, they think that I should go to College or University. Iv thought of RMC, but with an 83 average, it won't cut it. Do you guys have any advise as to how to deal with my family and friends, as well have any of you been in the same situation as me?


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## Yrys (19 Jul 2007)

REad that for a start :

Peoples Attitudes changed when stated I was joining

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49100.0.html


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## Meridian (19 Jul 2007)

triggerhappy said:
			
		

> Im starting Grade 12 soon, and really, joining the Canadian Forces is what Iv wanted to do my entire life. Im just encountering a lot of negative feed back from family, friends and my girl friend. They keep naging me to change my mind, to find a civi job and be like normal people. This frustrates me because I don't want a civi job, my whole life dream has been to become and Armoured Soldier or Infantry. My family feels that going right from High School into the Army is a bad idea, they think that I should go to College or University. Iv thought of RMC, but with an 83 average, it won't cut it. Do you guys have any advise as to how to deal with my family and friends, as well have any of you been in the same situation as me?




I had lower than an 83 and got into RMC.  Mind you, I had significant real world leadership experience that helped overcome that.  There is always CEOTP as well.
Question is - do you want an Officer's job, or do you want an NCMs?


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## Loachman (19 Jul 2007)

It's your life, it's your decision.

Thirty-four years later, I have no regrets. If I could be seventeen again, I'd do it all over again (with a few minor variations - no need to repeat all of my dumb, usually alcohol-fuelled, stunts).

Is there a reserve unit near you? You could always try that on for size.


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## Disenchantedsailor (19 Jul 2007)

For whats its worth, I joined the reserves in high school against the objections of my mother (there was alot of fighting there and I think I finally wore her down) The day after highschool I hit the recr centre again and went reg force (to the navy from Comm Res) and now 10 years later I CEOTP's to Arty, with a 68 some odd average and 4 uni courses under my belt. I left behind a girlfriend and some angry pro-liberal anti-military friends, that was 10 years ago, faced with the same challanges I'd make the same decision.


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## ModlrMike (19 Jul 2007)

Short answer: your life, you decide.


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## RetiredRoyal (20 Jul 2007)

Family is family. Friends come and go, if they are your family, they'll love and respect you no matter what...as stated, your life, you decide.

I joined as soon as I turned 17. Mom was not happy, I'm a better man for it and Mom is extremely proud of my accomplishments in life. I could NOT have done it if I hadn't joined when I was 17. I wasn't ready for university at that time. It was the military that disciplined me, taught me study skills, mental toughness etc.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

BTW, Mom wasn't thrilled I'm re-enrolling, but she's still very proud and supportive of me. Kind of afraid I'll volunteer to go over there.


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## triggerhappy (20 Jul 2007)

Thanks guys, I have been in Cadets for 3 years, unfortunantly I quit a year ago because I didn't have enough time due to a part time job. Thanks for all the input.


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## Greymatters (20 Jul 2007)

triggerhappy said:
			
		

> Im just encountering a lot of negative feed back from family, friends and my girl friend. They keep naging me to change my mind, to find a civi job and be like normal people.



What specifically do they disapprove of or are negative about?  Some of us here may be able to assist with a rebuttal argument.


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## Meridian (20 Jul 2007)

My mom hated the fact that I was joining the military.  The only thing she liked was the idea of a college education. Colleagues looked at me like I was nuts to leave a well-paid job.

Now I'm doing it all over again, 5 years later, and my current salary is already above an average Captain.  Its not about the money, but unfortunately many friends like to focus on that, especially in the mid-to-late-twenties age bracket.   When I mention re-enrollment as a possibility to my mother (over the last year or so), it's been met with limited feedback.

She's proud of me, and doesn't want to be unsupportive, but certainly also doesn't want me to be in the news. Whose mom does?


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## Yrys (20 Jul 2007)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Whose mom does?



Unfortunately, some mother of suicide attack terrorists.

ADD: but that would be another thread...


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## Greymatters (21 Jul 2007)

Meridian said:
			
		

> My mom hated the fact that I was joining the military.  The only thing she liked was the idea of a college education. Colleagues looked at me like I was nuts to leave a well-paid job.
> 
> Now I'm doing it all over again, 5 years later, and my current salary is already above an average Captain.  Its not about the money, but unfortunately many friends like to focus on that, especially in the mid-to-late-twenties age bracket.   When I mention re-enrollment as a possibility to my mother (over the last year or so), it's been met with limited feedback.
> 
> She's proud of me, and doesn't want to be unsupportive, but certainly also doesn't want me to be in the news. Whose mom does?



Unfortunately it is not your mother who questions whether they are feelng satisfied with their role in the world.  Not to slag your mother, but its not her decision anymore what you want to do with your life.


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## 18-and-ready (21 Jul 2007)

My parents are freaking too I support the Canadian troops in Afghanistan and they are aware but their completely against war.
Talk to them logically and learn why you want to go and let them know
make sure their heads aren't filled with bull****

*I walked into a convo with my mom and uncle consisting off .."So many Americans are dieing, thats the only reason the Canadians are there to take over where they fall."
...you gotta be kidding me... lol

And even if it all fails.. its your choice and only yours
educate yourself on what your getting into
Know why you want in
Talk to recruiters they can also provide you with a package of info

At least you'd know your doing whats good for you.


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## Meridian (22 Jul 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Unfortunately it is not your mother who questions whether they are feelng satisfied with their role in the world.  Not to slag your mother, but its not her decision anymore what you want to do with your life.



Indeed, and this is what she has told me herself.  But there is a difference between being supportive/accepting unconditionally, and being wholeheartedly for something.


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## 1feral1 (22 Jul 2007)

triggerhappy said:
			
		

> and be like normal people



I thought we were normal??? Ha!

Words of advise? Your name 'triggerhappy' is not the greatest.

Triggerhappy we are NOT.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Greymatters (22 Jul 2007)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> Words of advise? Your name 'triggerhappy' is not the greatest.



I was debating saying something about that, but figured the Mods would handle it.  

Looks like we will have to give Wes special 'Mod constabulary powers' of some sort...  ;D


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## triggerhappy (22 Jul 2007)

Sorry about the name guys, It definantly isn't appropriete for this type of forum, back when I created it, I was into casual paintball and got the nickname "triggerhappy" so I put it as my forum name.

Mentioned earlier by someone asking what my parents are saying...well let me tell you. I have expained to them that I have no interest in going to college or university nor investing a lot of money towards something I will not enjoy. On the other hand, I do understand that in some cases it may be benefit me down the road to get a degree, but at this point in my life there are no other jobs that interest me except the Canadian Armed Forces. Why would I waste time and money into something that I will not enjoy. 

In response to my parents, they argued that they had put some money away in some education fund, and the interest had grown into a good chunk of money that could be used towards college. They said if I go right from high school into the army, all of the interest will be lost and the fund was a waste. My parents also say that joining the army is a bad choice as the living conditions are "descent" I really didn't know what to say, I have herd of the accomidations and I really couldn't care how big my apartment/"shack" is. Its not something I really care for, I get to travel the world and do something most people wouldn't get to do their entire life. I mentioned the good pension that is envolved and that some soldiers are able to retire at the age of 45-50. They stated that it may not be enough to support me after leaving the army, I was really not sure what to say as I really don't know much about pensions.

Those are just some minor things that we argued about, other's I did not want to mention as It has offended me and probably everyone on this forum.

As well, if there is a way to change my forum name, I would really like to do that. If there isn't, once this forum has been discussed enough I will change it asap.


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## WannaBeFlyer (22 Jul 2007)

Trigger, 

Click once on your name. Then click on "account related settings". You can change your name there.

I'm going to partially side with your parents on the education issue. Personally, and I might be alone on this one but, if someone were going to pay for my education, and I were fresh out of high school, I would jump on the opportunity to go to school without taking a student loan.  I would then zip down to the recruiting centre and join the Reserves. Once my Degree/Diploma was over with, I would do a Component transfer to the Regs if I still felt that is where I need to be. If I absolutely had to be in the Regs, I would investigate how I might be able to get an education while I work in my dream job. (for example ROTP/CEOTP). It is not a lot of fun trying to get that piece of paper later in life; trust me on that one and it has closed a lot of doors on me. Keep in mind, you never know where life in the CF is going to take you or if it is going to work out for you at all. It might be nice to have something to fall back on. Again, just my two cents...

Good luck with your decision.


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## Greymatters (22 Jul 2007)

Well, it might be true that a CF pension cant support you after retirement, especially if you have an expensive lifestyle, but let me tell you, everytime that retirement paycheck arrives in my bank account I am grinning from ear to ear.  Nobody else in my family is collecting or ever collected retirement money at age 44.  

As for good pensions, very few of them out there can support anybody after retirement.  What matters is how you save your money during your career.  If you can own  your own house by the end of 25 years of service, then you dont need a humungous pension. 

Curious about the college fund - is there really a type out there that all the interest disappears if you dont use it?  Sounds hokey to me. I recommend going with real estate next time... you always have the property deed in hand and you dont lose your 'interest' if you decide not to go to college. 

Overall I think they are just afraid you are going to 'go to Afghanistan and die', which is the most common argument I hear against the CF these days.  

Edit - MikeG makes a good point - Many people come out without a degree and numerous opportunities get shut down because of it.  Going reserves while you are in university/college can meet both goals at once...


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## WannaBeFlyer (22 Jul 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Overall I think they are just afraid you are going to 'go to Afghanistan and die', which is the most common argument I hear against the CF these days.



Yep - "_let someone else do it." _ I've heard that a few times!


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## Greymatters (22 Jul 2007)

MikeG said:
			
		

> Yep - "_let someone else do it." _ I've heard that a few times!



To deliberately misquote George Orwell...

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because 'someone else' stands ready to do violence on their behalf."


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## kincanucks (22 Jul 2007)

:brickwall: :deadhorse: :argument:

Does anyone think for themselves these days?


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## Greymatters (22 Jul 2007)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Does anyone think for themselves these days?



Oh sorry, did you already use that quote?   ;D


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## Trogdor (24 Jul 2007)

Zippo

From one soldier to a potential other I'll give this piece of advice.

I too come from a family that was less than pleased with my choice in career.  We argued and we debated for the longest time about pay and benefits, transferable skills, risks and such.  But at the end I just had to tell them "listen, the only reason that any of these safe civi jobs and educational institutions exist in a safe and free country is that people like me believed in something bigger than ourselves and chose to serve it."  

It's your life and you should do with it what makes you happy and gives you a sense of accomplishment and pride.  

As for education, I will say that it is of course important.  But life is long, if you're fortunate, and there will always be institutions to go to.  Just make sure you are going to one because YOU want to learn, not because others want you to do it because they feel it is "normal".

Personally I don't respond well to being blackmailed or guilt tripped into doing something.  So if my parents had said something like that to me about the money then I'd of told em to back off and respect my decision.  That's just me mind you.

Anyways I wish you the best of luck and hope you will make the decision you feel most comfortable with based on what YOU want to do.

Cheers


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## Brett (25 Jul 2007)

... And as the nike commercial says, "Just do it"   (taken from the 'ING Direct' commercial)


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## triggerhappy (25 Jul 2007)

Thank you for all the support and advice, I will take it all into account when debating my career choice with my parents.

Zippo


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## Testify (26 Jul 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Curious about the college fund - is there really a type out there that all the interest disappears if you dont use it?  Sounds hokey to me. I recommend going with real estate next time... you always have the property deed in hand and you dont lose your 'interest' if you decide not to go to college.



This is true.  My parents did the same thing.  It was a plan where they pump out the interest and investment for 3 years of schooling, but you only get the interest if you attend post-secondary.  So I did for 2 years, got my diploma but there is still a years worth of interest that I miss out on.  They allow you to post-pone the payment by only 2 years.  Which obviously won't benefit me because I'll be in the military.  You can still take out what you invested however, so you don't lose what you put in.

As for the negative feedback.  If you really want this and you've let your family know that, then that's all you can do.  Don't let them decided your future.  Post-secondary is a really good thing to have though.  I have a couple friends that want to join the military with me but they are waiting to finish their schooling first.  It's a good thing to have and no fun getting later on if the CF doesn't work out for ya.


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## Greymatters (26 Jul 2007)

Testify said:
			
		

> This is true.  My parents did the same thing.  It was a plan where they pump out the interest and investment for 3 years of schooling, but you only get the interest if you attend post-secondary.  So I did for 2 years, got my diploma but there is still a years worth of interest that I miss out on.  They allow you to post-pone the payment by only 2 years.  Which obviously won't benefit me because I'll be in the military.  You can still take out what you invested however, so you don't lose what you put in.



Really? Well, you learn something new every day.  Hope you can amplify these questions for me.

Do you get your interest at the end of every school year completed, or at the end after you achieve a diploma or degree of some kind?  
Can you roll it over each year and get compound interest?
And, why is this a good deal, i.e. is it a higher than average interest rate?


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## Testify (26 Jul 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Really? Well, you learn something new every day.  Hope you can amplify these questions for me.
> 
> Do you get your interest at the end of every school year completed, or at the end after you achieve a diploma or degree of some kind?
> Can you roll it over each year and get compound interest?
> And, why is this a good deal, i.e. is it a higher than average interest rate?



You get it at the beginning of each school year.  It starts out with the highest amount and then it goes down each year.
The money that is still in there is always gaining interest for the following years.

I will check with the folks about the benefits to this plan over other plans and get back to you.

EDIT:  I just remembered the company that we used (non-profit).  Here is a link to their sites 'How it Works' page http://www.heritageresp.com/content/product_heritage_works.asp

An advantage is if say a family contributes for 20 years and then their child doesn't go to post-secondary then the interest goes to the other contributors (not the company).  That is one of many advantages it seems.  It appears like it's almost like a mutual fund in a sense.  Read up on the site for more information.


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## Greymatters (26 Jul 2007)

Ah, its an investment scheme, which means its a gamble for the investor.  I knew there was a trick to it somewhere.


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## retiredgrunt45 (26 Jul 2007)

> I'm going to partially side with your parents on the education issue. Personally, and I might be alone on this one but, if someone were going to pay for my education, and I were fresh out of high school, I would jump on the opportunity to go to school without taking a student loan.  I would then zip down to the recruiting centre and join the Reserves. Once my Degree/Diploma was over with, I would do a Component transfer to the Regs if I still felt that is where I need to be. If I absolutely had to be in the Regs



Very good advice. University education doesn't grow on trees. I know I have one daughter who just finished and another in her second year with one year to go. I didn't totally fund their entire cost but did 70% for them and left them with 30% of the cost. In all it has been a learning experience to say the least, I wish I had, had the hindsight 20 years ago to place money into a fund like your parents did for you, It would have made like much easier all around. 

If your parents put money away for your education, don't look a gifted horse in the mouth, the military will still be there if you should still wish to join after college. First and foremost build yourself a stable foundation in which to fall back on, because if something happens and you don't like the military life, you will have a buffer to come back to. A college education opens up many doors for you, why limit yourself to just a few.

As for  retiring at 45 on a military pension, wish full thinking is all it is, unless your a Senior officer or Senior enlisted MWO or above with 35+ year in, then you'd be in your 50's. Its nice to have that money at the end of the month, but you certainly can't retire on it and expect to live much of a life otherwise.

Please think long and hard, before you leap into something, you may regret later. That's not saying the military is a bad choice, because it's not, but please don't discard options you may never have again like a paid college education. Your parents love you and had the insight to give you the best start in life possible and that my young friend is something very few of us get in life "a head start". 

Good luck with your decision and much respect for your parents for making a great choice.


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## Disenchantedsailor (27 Jul 2007)

zippofire said:
			
		

> My parents also say that joining the army is a bad choice as the living conditions are "descent" I really didn't know what to say, I have herd of the accomidations and I really couldn't care how big my apartment/"shack" is.


Zippo I'm curious to know just how much time your folks have spend in shacks or MQ's, I'm going on my 7th year in MQ's with an ever growing familiy and the living conditions aint that bad.


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## DG-41 (27 Jul 2007)

My turn to chime in:

1.     Your first real decision is "Officer or NCO?"

If the answer is "Officer", then a university education is essential. There's more than one way to do it, but getting that education is a core part of your career progression - and you will need the study skills, even if you go Infantry. 

On the NCO side, I don't think a university education is a "must have" but I do think it is a "nice to have" - but I'm rapidly exiting my lane here; you'd be better off discussing this with NCOs than me.

2.    If you decide you want to be an officer, then attending RMC is a very good thing. It's not essential (and for that matter, it isn't a guarantee that you'll be a good officer either) but it does lay a good solid foundation for a life in uniform.

Grades matter for getting onto RMC, but so do a lot of other things. Don't take yourself out of the running - apply, and see what happens.

Part of the RMC acceptance process is that not everybody who is offered a position accepts it. There is a "B List" that they fall back on to fill slots rejected by "A Listers". It is possible to squeak in at the last second this way, and more than a few "B List" types have gone on to become successful officers.

3.    DO NOT allow yourself to be swayed by pension, retirement, or civvie skills arguments. They are utterly unimportant when compared to the quality of life that comes from doing what you love.

Put your helmets on, war story time:

Back when I was going to CMR in the late 80's/early 90's, I got in as a pilot and as a Computer Scientist. While I was there, I discovered the Military and Strategic Studies programme, and I also discovered that I had some small amount of talent as a field leader. The pilot thing was nowhere near as much fun as I had expected, and calculus sucked golf balls through garden hose. What I WANTED to do - and very badly - was to switch my degree over to MilStud, and my MOC over to Armoured.

My buddies, who were all pilots, talked me out of this no less than three times. Each time, the argument was "what are you going to do when your stint is up?" - the idea being that you get the CF to pay for your science or engineering degree, you fly transports for 5 years to get hours and multi-engine certification, and then go fly for Air Canada making the big bucks. The unstated assumption here is that a Armoured officer with a MilStud degree was worthless out on civvie street.

The end result was that I wound up doing things I just wasn't all that interested in doing. It made my life drudgery, and the quality of work coming out of an unhappy drone just isn't very high....

Half a lifetime later, I managed to rectify the problem, and became an Armoured officer, and my quality of life skyrocketed.

I have very, very few real regrets in life, but the biggest is that I didn't remuster to Armour and change my degree to MilStud the first opportunity I had, and that I had told my entirely well-intentioned buddies to go piss up a rope.

It is far, far more important to do what you LOVE, rather than doing what you think (or what someone else thinks) is "smart". If you can make your career in something you love doing, then all the incidentals take care of themselves.

DG


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## Greymatters (27 Jul 2007)

RecceDG said:
			
		

> 3.    DO NOT allow yourself to be swayed by pension, retirement, or civvie skills arguments. They are utterly unimportant when compared to the quality of life that comes from doing what you love.



I agree that you have to do what you like, but disagree in that these are not issues you can ignore, and must be considered.  Eventually you have to retire and you need to be prepared for re-entering the work force.


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## DG-41 (27 Jul 2007)

Those things sort themselves out. The doors of opportunity open all over the place, and they take forms that often are inconceivable before the fact.

Canada is not full of starving, unemployable former Armoured (and infantry, and artillery etc) officers.

Just because you can't imagine, today, how a military career might set the conditions for a successful and profitable return to civvie life at some time in the future doesn't mean it is impossible, and categorically should NOT form the reason for not embarking on such a career.

With all the wisdom hindsight can generate, I tell you that those concerns are utterly trivial when contrasted against being able to spend a lifetime doing what you love. Abandoning a passion because you cannot see, today, how you might re-enter the work force (if required - there is nothing to say you can't do a lifetime of service) leads to nothing but regrets and unhappiness.

DG


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## Dontgo (28 Jul 2007)

When I tell/told people that I'm joining the military (infantry) I get a lot of negative feedback. I also get a lot of positive too mind you. But people would always say it's a bad idea, or aren't you afraid of getting shot. The best way to counteract negative feedback is to know your stuff. When someone says "Aren't you afraid of getting shot?" You say "No. Why would I be? There's been about 60 Candian casualties in Afghanistan and there's 2,500 troops and we've been there for years now. To me that seems relatively small. Not only that but Canada has some of the best training in the world to minimize the risk, and of course Kevlar always helps." If they say it's a bad idea ask them why they think so. Most people don't even have a particular reason of why they think it's a bad idea. All you have to do is learn and list off some of the positives. Full pension in 20 years, full medical coverage, and of course, my favourite, you get to protect freedoms.


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## Disenchantedsailor (28 Jul 2007)

Dontgo said:
			
		

> When I tell/told people that I'm joining the military (infantry) I get a lot of negative feedback. I also get a lot of positive too mind you. But people would always say it's a bad idea, or aren't you afraid of getting shot. The best way to counteract negative feedback is to know your stuff. When someone says "Aren't you afraid of getting shot?" You say "No. Why would I be? There's been about 60 Candian casualties in Afghanistan and there's 2,500 troops and we've been there for years now. To me that seems relatively small. Not only that but Canada has some of the best training in the world to minimize the risk, and of course Kevlar always helps." If they say it's a bad idea ask them why they think so. Most people don't even have a particular reason of why they think it's a bad idea. All you have to do is learn and list off some of the positives. Full pension in 20 years, full medical coverage, and of course, my favourite, you get to protect freedoms.


Full pension in 25 years (new revision in the last few years to the pension act)


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## Chewie (31 Jul 2007)

If its truly what you want to do then jump in with both feet and give it all you got. As for your friends and family they are more than likely only concerned on the choice you will make when joining in light of the present situation and Canada's commitments. What trade do you
have in mind. Even with 25 years of service you would still be a young man with a pension. Not many jobs out there can boast that.
Its a great life...I know I am starting my 27th year with no plans to leave. The friends you make in uniform are there for life, there are
very few bonds that are as tight. I would recomend studying what it is you want to do and don't let some recruiter sway you from it.
GOOD LUCK


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## Dontgo (31 Jul 2007)

decoy said:
			
		

> But how do you find out what you LOVE? This is the one I am having serious troubles with....sometimes it seems like I will never know...



Either trial and error, or you just know.


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## Col.Steiner (31 Jul 2007)

I understand your dilema. I am interested in re-joining and I am married now, which means I cannot just decide on my own on whether or not I join. If you are single and you want to do it, then you are in a convenient position to do so, and I say go for it! It's a great career so I am told, and the people are top-notch from what I remember as a reservist.


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## triggerhappy (10 Aug 2007)

Very good input from all, and thank you so much! I have decided to join a reserve unit, like most people said the reserve will give me a feel for the military. Im going to join a Infantry unit, my question is when is the best time to apply. I know I can get trained during the summer or go a weekend training route. As I will be in grade 12, I am considering that the weekend BMQ and SQ would not be good as I will have assignments anf "homework", so the summer coarse would probably be the best. As for the summer coarse, I am assuming that the earlier I submit my application the better chances I have of getting excepted. I figure just before Christmas I will submit my application as it will give me ample time to get in shape. Anybody have any input conserning when I should apply and if I should take a weekend or summer coarse?


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## kincanucks (10 Aug 2007)

"coarse"?  Actually we call them courses as they aren't too rough.

The best time to apply for the reserves is in the fall that way you should be processed in plenty of time before summer training.  If you wait until the spring you may be SOL. Good Luck.


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