# Whose soldiers are chubby and unfit



## daftandbarmy (6 Mar 2008)

Whose soldiers are chubby and unfit

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's young soldiers are fat, smoke too much and don't exercise enough, a report on the armed services said on Tuesday.

"The public perception is that soldiers are slim, sporty and healthy. Unfortunately, the reality is very different," said Germany's army commissioner Reinhold Robbe as he presented the report.

Some 40 percent of soldiers between 18 and 29 are overweight compared to 35 percent among Germany's civilian population, said the report, which also found young male and female soldiers smoked too much and failed to do enough sport.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN0447168320080304?rpc=92


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## benny88 (6 Mar 2008)

Holy crap. How can the ratio of overweight people be HIGHER than civilians!? In fairness, a guy who is 5'10, 220 lbs of muscle is probably "overweight" on BMI, but this still seems ridiculous.


From this article: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GERMANY_TUBBY_TROOPS?SITE=DCUSN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT



> 70 percent are regular smokers.



Whoa that seems high too. Can someone with a lot more TI take a stab at what that percentage would be in the CF? Surely not as high as 70%.....


Edited to add quote and link.


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## Blackadder1916 (6 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> Can someone with a lot more TI take a stab at what that percentage would be in the CF? Surely not as high as 70%.....



What does TI have to do with a quick (10 sec) google search?

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/information/HLIS/engraph/HLIS_2004_tobacco_e.asp


> Only one quarter of CF members are now smokers. The decrease in the past four years has been even greater than that in the general Canadian population.
> 
> Approximately 20% of CF members are daily smokers. Another 5% are occasional smokers leaving 75% that are non-smokers.



While I would have thought 70% a little high for tobacco useage in the German military, it is not surprising considering the number of Germans who light up in public.  My guesstimate would be that smoking among the general population of Germany would be significantly higher than in Canada, however, it is probably less than double the Canadian rate.


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## benny88 (6 Mar 2008)

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> What does TI have to do with a quick (10 sec) google search?



  To be honest I didn't think they kept records or did studies on how many people smoked in the CF, and thought that it would have to be an educated guess, sorry I should've searched. Nice to see it's much less than 70% though.


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## PMedMoe (6 Mar 2008)

> Approximately 20% of CF members are daily smokers. Another 5% are occasional smokers leaving 75% that are non-smokers.



Leaving 75% that are non-smokers *or* liars.

I kid you not.  I used to work for a CO who gave non-smokers two days short leave every six months.  There were people who smoked, but did not smoke _at work_ just to get those days off.  Finally, a new CO abolished this practice, stating that it was discriminatory.


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## X-mo-1979 (6 Mar 2008)

I know there are quite a few of these boards in reference to fitness,and obese people in the army.
One thing I will say (from my own personal observations) is the army is getting more and more healthly.
I think the major problem in the past was the Snr NCO's of lets say 10 years ago.Germany guy's.

I remember when I got in first being fat was considered normal.PT was non existant or a 2km shuffle.Who run's
PT?Snr NCO's.At least at the planning level. (Cancel PT were going for coffee...casue our leadership was out of shape and didnt want to do it.)Now certain people adopted these leadership principals but due to education through PSP,and now inplimented on most leadership courses, our army is heading in the right direction.

Right now guys in my troop are extremely physical fit.Pretty much the whole troop.

Keep promoting fit guys (which I see happening )and when these guys become senior leadership it will affect the next generation of soldiers coming in.

I just got home from the gym and for march break,with people deployed,and others just getting home from ex the place was full of people.

Keep up the good work cannuck ground forces!


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## retiredgrunt45 (6 Mar 2008)

> think the major problem in the past was the Snr NCO's of lets say 10 years ago.Germany guy's.



Excuse me? I spent a decade in Germany with 3RCR and i can tell you from personal experience and sweat that PT was not easy. I don't know we're your getting this. 

We did Pl. PT from monday-Wed Coy PT on Thu, usually 10-12 Kms runs along out back of the base in no mans land through there woods or if we were lucky along the Rhine. Friday was usually sports. As for unfit soldiers in 3RCR during my tours, there wasn't to many, those who where, were quickly sorted out or sent back to Canada. We also had very fit Snr/Nco's (the RSM made sure of that) and officers who we had to follow on those runs and let me tell you I had the sore muscles and bad knees to prove it. Remedial PT was another fun event those unfit type had to endure until they either got fit or did the hatless dance in from of their OC, explaining why they were slackers and why they shouldn't be placed on C & P until, they could get themselves sorted out.

And then there was Winnipeg under the wonderful leadership of Col. Jimmy Cox ( now a General) who loved rucksack marches we did one every friday 15-20Km , rain, snow or sunshine. Mon-thu was run, run and more running. And when we weren't doing that we were snowshowing in Shilo pulling toboggans or trying to dig a trench through the permafrost.

No one had time to get fat and if they did they were sorted out.


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## X-mo-1979 (6 Mar 2008)

retiredgrunt45 said:
			
		

> Excuse me? I spent a decade in Germany with 3RCR and i can tell you from personal experience and sweat that PT was not easy. I don't know we're your getting this.
> 
> We did Pl. PT from monday-Wed Coy PT on Thu, usually 10-12 Kms runs along out back of the base in no mans land through there woods or if we were lucky along the Rhine. Friday was usually sports. As for unfit soldiers in 3RCR during my tours, there wasn't to many, those who where, were quickly sorted out or sent back to Canada. We also had very fit Snr/Nco's (the RSM made sure of that) and officers who we had to follow on those runs and let me tell you I had the sore muscles and bad knees to prove it. Remedial PT was another fun event those unfit type had to endure until they either got fit or did the hatless dance in from of their OC, explaining why they were slackers and why they shouldn't be placed on C & P until, they could get themselves sorted out.
> 
> ...



A unit thing I suspect.As I said from personal experience Snr Nco's 10 years ago were no pushing the PT,rather advoiding it.....hey now that you mention it...maybe it was the guys who got sent back from germany!


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## TCBF (6 Mar 2008)

benny88 said:
			
		

> ...Whoa that seems high too. ...



- Remember, Europeans still consider smoking 'sexy'.


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## geo (6 Mar 2008)

Huh?  I don't remember 4CMBG units being unfit... quite the contrary.  Lord knows there was enough unit & Bde sports competitions.


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## RA OPA073 (6 Mar 2008)

The Germans still have conscription in their armed forces. All they have to do is 9 months and there training is not so hard to get them fit, and the Germans love there beer too. And for smoking, they smoke in the bars,at work and all over ,there is no laws about smoking in Germany. Not to forget their food is good too.


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## Lumber (7 Mar 2008)

RA OPA073 said:
			
		

> ....Germans l*ove there beer* too.
> Not to forget *their food is good too.*



And the understatement(s) of the year goes to....

But in all seriousness, I was in Germany for a month a few years ago. I travelled all over, from west to east, Berlin to Koln, in restaurants, parks and pubs, and I did not notice a lot of smoking. Sure, they had one of those old cigarette vending machines with the pull handles on a residential street corner, but I didn't notice that much smoking.


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## RA OPA073 (7 Mar 2008)

Lumber
               Did you get to see Hannover because i lived there for 11 years it's a good party city  >


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## Lumber (7 Mar 2008)

RA OPA073 said:
			
		

> Lumber
> Did you get to see Hannover because i lived there for 11 years it's a good party city  >



Nah, I'd like to have seen Hannover, but we didn't stop on my way to Berlin. I spent most my time in small towns like Lippstadt and Achen. The big cities I was in were Berlin, Koln and Dusseldorf.


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## ironduke57 (7 Mar 2008)

RA OPA073 said:
			
		

> ..there is no laws about smoking in Germany.


That has changed in the last years. 

Regards,
ironduke57


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## combatbuddha (9 Mar 2008)

Chubby and unfit can be used together, but lets not forget that they can be used seperately as well.
We had a discussion at work about the new generation. The X-box generation we call them. What we've noticed from casual observation is a lack of drive and motivation and a higher tendency towards injury.
Some of us older "chubby" dudes have actually marched past these some of these guys during ruck marches or have lasted longer during long intense work periods.
We came to the general consensus that one can be fit and fat, (knowing that it can't get out of control) but being fit from head to toe is the most important. This means cardio, muscle strength and mentally as well.
I'm chubby and I consider myself fit. I would never make it on a recruiting poster thats for sure, but i'll get the job done and still be ready for the next one.


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## tomahawk6 (9 Mar 2008)

Having a daily PT shcedule is critical to remaining fit. I dont mean going to the gymn to play basketball. The daily dozen and a 2 mile run with periodic road marches should be the order of the day. We have an annual PT test and soldiers have to meet weight standards. Of course we dont see the same level of commitment to PT in the Navy as in the Army. ;D


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## axeman (9 Mar 2008)

The navy is now directedto be doing PT 3 x a week . now in my new trade its daily as once you are 5's qual you can be expected to be  doing a FireFighters job and that means the FF PT test  . Its not the Coopers test but its better the doing the shuttle run once a year and saying thats good enough .As to the fit and chubby ive been on the heavy side but I've generally finished each and every ruck march  .And rather enjoyed them too. theres the speed snakes who can run with the wind in running gear but with a ruck they are screwed.  Meeh what can you do theres good and bad...

edit for spelling


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## X-mo-1979 (9 Mar 2008)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> Having a daily PT shcedule is critical to remaining fit. I dont mean going to the gymn to play basketball. The daily dozen and a 2 mile run with periodic road marches should be the order of the day. We have an annual PT test and soldiers have to meet weight standards. Of course we dont see the same level of commitment to PT in the Navy as in the Army. ;D



Something that made me smile was the PT for those who failed the test at AFB Bigg's.I was up usually at 5h30 to do my own PT prior to breakfast.And almost every morning I ending up running into the remedial PT program which went on before their normal PT.Excellent stuff.
Also at their mess EVERYTHING was labeled with nutritional content,made it easier for troops to make a better choice especially on the main course which you never really know what it is cooked in etc.And that was the airforce.

This was my first time in the states in my life,and first interaction with American soldiers outher than combat arms.By far they are in much better shape than us (visually) on average.Most likely to the army taking a firm stance on it.

However I gotta say Petawawa is a pretty fit base compared to some other shite holes I've been lately.

As for the scheduled PT/directives from higher,I've realised its not like a normal order I guess.'cause I seen a whole lot of these "you will do PT every morning" be blatantly ignored.Maybe it's time to give troops a parade to ensure everyone turns up (and every section) and let them go off and do their own thing.Treating soldiers like adults is the best way for them to maintain or improve physical fitness.


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## dangerclose (3 Jul 2009)

I would like to throw out that the Canadian forces isn't any better i went for a daily run today and most of the people I past on the trails were fit soldiers. I pull into timmy to grab a coffee before going to work, fat slobs in PT that aren't even close to sweating other then between there roles are using great PT time to indulge in there uncontrollable Fatulance. Did anyone know we have the lowest physical standard in the common wealth. I'm disgusted with the Canadian Forces fitness plan.


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## George Wallace (3 Jul 2009)

OK?  And do you have anything to tell us that we really don't already know?




PS.  Those guys in Tim's would be sweating between their rolls, unless of course they were wearing those padded rubber Sumo Wrestler suits and there playing roles.  But, what the hay?.........We can be disgusted with the lack of education of many members too.    ;D


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Jul 2009)

I like it when new posters come here and get all huffy puffy with their first post ;D


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## Bruce Monkhouse (4 Jul 2009)

I don't think Luke is coming back anyway. He feels all proud now......


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## daftandbarmy (4 Jul 2009)

2nd hand scuttlebutt alert:

A pal of mine who's just returned from the sandbox confirms the flabby German soldier thing, and that they are noticebly moreso than our fightin' fit Johnny/Janey Canucks.  :warstory: 

He also says they need a shave and a haircut, but then again so do most Euro-trash ;D


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## FastEddy (4 Jul 2009)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> 2nd hand scuttlebutt alert:
> 
> A pal of mine who's just returned from the sandbox confirms the flabby German soldier thing, and that they are noticebly moreso than our fightin' fit Johnny/Janey Canucks.  :warstory:
> 
> He also says they need a shave and a haircut, but then again so do most Euro-trash ;D




Who do you or your Buddy mean when you refer to "Most of the Euro Trash".


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## daftandbarmy (4 Jul 2009)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> Who do you or your Buddy mean when you refer to "Most of the Euro Trash".



He, of course, was very respectful of our gallant NATO allies. That was my cheeky add on. I used to 'be' Euro-trash of a sort, but luckily got rid of all my skinny black leather stuff ages ago.


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## ironduke57 (4 Jul 2009)

Did I get it right that every one from europe is trash in your eye´s?

ironduke57


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## Bruce Monkhouse (4 Jul 2009)

He's being sarcastic, read his last post again.


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## daftandbarmy (4 Jul 2009)

ironduke57 said:
			
		

> Did I get it right that every one from europe is trash in your eye´s?
> 
> ironduke57



Only those hot chicks with the hairy armpits in that nightclub in Hannover that turned me down... twice. Geez, what am I, Welsh or soemthing? On the other hand, Kudoes to the ladies in Harstad!


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## George Wallace (4 Jul 2009)

Ah!  Nena.  She is grown up now.   ;D


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## c4th (4 Jul 2009)

dangerclose said:
			
		

> lowest physical standard in the common wealth. I'm disgusted with the Canadian Forces fitness plan.



Based on what source and what test? ...

Remainder deleted by me


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Jul 2009)

Trust No One said:
			
		

> Based on what source and what test?  Feel free to post your Cooper's Test scores.  From that we should be able to convert to various commonwealth PT tests.



Please don't. This site isn't for testoterone driven Charles Atlas whannabees, strutting the cyber beach, kicking sand in the faces of weak and defenceless internet drones.


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## c4th (4 Jul 2009)

The Commonwealth is a very big place.  Far bigger than the UK which outside of slightly better fitness in the (much younger) light infantry is probably not fairing any better on the aggregate fitness scores.  Compare apples to apples or pumpkins to pumpkins I would wager this argument is also taking place in Australia and New Zealand (Though possibly to a lesser extent in NZ due to its largely infantry centric army).

Having worked with several of the developing commonwealth countries I would happily throw a ruck on any soldier in the CF and march and/or shoot with any of them.  More to the point I would rather fight next to any Canadian then the vast majority other militaries.  Commonwealth or otherwise.

The CF may be older and rounder but it is tougher than most.


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## ironduke57 (6 Jul 2009)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> He's being sarcastic, read his last post again.





			
				daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Only those hot chicks with the hairy armpits in that nightclub in Hannover that turned me down... twice. Geez, what am I, Welsh or soemthing? On the other hand, Kudoes to the ladies in Harstad!



Ah okay. Was really tired when I read it and it looks like my irony detector was already fallen asleep then.

Regards,
ironduke57


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## daftandbarmy (6 Jul 2009)

Trust No One said:
			
		

> The Commonwealth is a very big place.  Far bigger than the UK which outside of slightly better fitness in the (much younger) light infantry is probably not fairing any better on the aggregate fitness scores.  Compare apples to apples or pumpkins to pumpkins I would wager this argument is also taking place in Australia and New Zealand (Though possibly to a lesser extent in NZ due to its largely infantry centric army).
> 
> Having worked with several of the developing commonwealth countries I would happily throw a ruck on any soldier in the CF and march and/or shoot with any of them.  More to the point I would rather fight next to any Canadian then the vast majority other militaries.  Commonwealth or otherwise.
> 
> The CF may be older and rounder but it is tougher than most.



I have to agree.

We entered a team of reservists in the Cambrian Patrol competition last year and they scored a bronze which, for me, says alot about how well prepared we are to participate in physically challenging events like this at short notice. 

This wasn't a a hand picked team and we had to go pretty much with who was available, so most of them were more junior than we would have liked. They only had a 3 month workup period - part time - prior to the competition. We only lost two in training: one due to fitness/motivation, another from injury. On the competition, the DS commented on the weight of the rucksacks our guys were carrying, up to 90 lbs in most cases, which we attributed to limited experience in LRRP tasks as well as an inability to access some of the 'gucci' lightweight gear that's available these days e.g., they were carrying the mega-ICE combat jacket/trousers. They all found it a tough go, but did well nonetheless.

This suggests to me that the current BFT requirement is suitable for preparing the majority of infantry to ramp up relatively quickly to a higher standard of battle fitness as required. It also suggests that Canada is producing some pretty tough young folks these days....


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## TCBF (13 Jul 2009)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Ah!  Nena.  She is grown up now.   ;D



- A chip off the old block, eh George?

 ;D


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