# How to Mark Passing of Last WW 1 Vet?



## The Bread Guy (22 May 2006)

Canada's three remaining First World War veterans are: Lloyd Clemett, 106; Percy Dwight Wilson, 105, and; John Babcock, 105. Time marches on, and these questions are starting to pop up (shared, as usual, in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions of the Copyright Act)...

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=bd708c28-ed42-4bf8-8792-550f61f3c23b

Legion urges proper honours for final First World War veteran
'Significant commemoration' sought as 3 vets left
  
Jennifer Campbell, The Ottawa Citizen. Monday, May 22, 2006

''The Royal Canadian Legion wants the government to host a "significant commemoration" when the last of Canada's First World War veterans dies. The Legion won't go so far as to call for a state funeral, but it wouldn't object to such a move, said Bob Butt, spokesman for Canada's largest veterans organization.

With the November death of Clare Laking, the number of known First World War veterans still living is down to three. Lloyd Clemett, 106, lives at the Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre's veteran's wing in Toronto. Percy Dwight Wilson, 105, lives in a retirement home in Oshawa and John Babcock, 105, lives at home, in Spokane, Wash. with his wife, Dorothy.

Given the dwindling numbers, and the advanced ages of the remaining three, the topic of what to do when the last First World War veteran passes away has been on the minds of decision-makers at Veterans Affairs.

Janice Summerby, spokeswoman for Veterans Affairs, called the question timely "given the number of veterans we lost in the latter part of 2005." In addition to Mr. Laking, who died in November, at 106, William "Duke" Procter, of Vernon, B.C., died in December at 106 and Lazare Gionet, of New Brunswick, died in April, just shy of his 109th birthday.

Ms. Summerby said Veterans Affairs has been weighing the question since Canada's last Victoria Cross recipient, Ernest Alvia "Smokey" Smith, died in August and was laid in state on Parliament Hill. Mr. Smith received a hero's farewell that saw people waiting in line for as many as three hours to pay their final respects ....  Mr. Smith's tribute represented the first time a non-commissioned officer was honoured with the ritual of lying in state on Parliament Hill. It's a distinction usually reserved for former prime ministers, though the Unknown Soldier, whose remains were brought back to Canada from Vimy Ridge in 2000, was an exception.

"It's a question we have been considering, particularly seeing how the lying in state and funeral for Smokey Smith caught the sympathies of the public," Ms. Summerby said. "Canadians seemed to appreciate the chance to pay their respects and honour his service."

But with respect to the last First World War veterans' service, a decision hasn't been made. "It is fair to say it is on our minds, but not planned," Ms. Summerby said.

She said her department has met with the "main" veterans' organizations, and representatives from the Canadian Forces and Canadian Heritage to come up with a plan, but the minister's office has yet to approve it. And when that happens, the public probably still won't find out about it because the parties have agreed not to publicize any specifics in advance of the passing of the last veteran.

"We want to be sensitive to the surviving families of all three, and to the occasion of their losses," Ms. Summerby said. "All I can say is we want to mark the passing of the remaining veterans appropriately and offer an opportunity for Canadians to mark the time when we no longer have Canadian First World War veterans living among us. It will be the end of an era -- the loss of our living history."

What to do with the last First World War veteran is also a question in Britain, where a campaign for a state funeral recently received government backing. Such a commemoration, dubbed "a national day of mourning and celebration" by British MP Iain Duncan Smith, would include a lying in state and then a service attended by the Queen. It would be the first time a person who lived in relative anonymity received such an honour. The First World War Veterans' Association in Britain is also suggesting a national holiday so schoolchildren of the future will remember the sacrifices.

Ms. Summerby said any plans Veterans Affairs makes would have to be vetted with the last soldier's next-of-kin.

Mr. Clemett's niece, who sees him regularly, said Mr. Clemett had always thought he'd have a military service at the veteran's wing where he lives. As for Mr. Wilson, his son, Paul, isn't sure what he'd like because it wasn't something they'd discussed. And it's not something he's prepared to raise with his father at this point.

"It never occurred to me that they might do something like that," Paul Wilson said. "But I wouldn't have any great objection."

Mr. Wilson's story is interesting because he was only discovered as a First World War veteran a couple of years ago when his recreational therapist requested he receive a Queen's Jubilee Medal after reading about Mr. Laking receiving one.

Mr. Babcock, who has spent the bulk of his long life in the U.S. and even served with the U.S. navy during the Second World War, could not be reached for comment.''


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## Michael OLeary (22 May 2006)

From the Soldiers of the First World War Database (http://www.collectionscanada.ca/02/02010602_e.html):

*115624  Lloyd Clemett*
Attested for the 93rd Battalion, transferred to the 109th before sailing overseas.

Date of birth - 10 January 1898
18 years old on enlistment on 31 January 1916.
Born on Toronto, living in Peterborough when enrolled.
Next of kin listed was brother Albert, who was already serving with the 21st Bn, CEF.

Attestation paper:
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/ren2/025052a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/ren2/025052b.gif


*339995 Gnr. Percy Dwight Wilson*
Attested to the 69th Battery, CEF.

Date of birth - 26 February 1900
16  years old on enlistment on 11 July 1916.
Born and living in Toronto at time of enrolment.
Prior service (9 months) with the 9th Mississauga Horse.

Attestation paper:
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/678778a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/678778b.gif


*835571 John Babcock*
(The Soldiers of the First World War database lists five John Babcocks, the following is from the attestation paper of the one born in 1900, matching the age of 105 given in the news article above. - John Henry Foster Babcock)
Attested for the 146th Overseas Battalion, CEF.

Date of birth - 23 July 1900
18  years old on enlistment on 4 February 1916.
Born at Lober Township, Ontario; enrolled at Sydenham.

Attestation paper:
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/well1/218225a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/well1/218225b.gif


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## Edward Campbell (22 May 2006)

Provided, of course, that his family agrees I would favour a full state funeral, plus.

We can and should, I think, _exploit_ the occasion to do a little ‘live’ history teaching – flooding the airways (and pod casts) and print media and blogs, too, with a national _act of remembrance_ and with some ‘legend making’.  We need to remind Canadians that Canada was, indeed, ‘born’ at Vimy Ridge and that it came of age in and in the aftermath of World War II when we eclipsed the efforts of larger, richer, more powerful nations in destroying one of the greatest evils in world history and in emasculating one of the others (the USSR).


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## MasterStryker (23 May 2006)

When the last WW1 vet does pass, god forbid, I think that there should be a state funeral because these men fought in one of the greatest wars ever fought in history and to not have the entire nation remember them would be a disgrace upon this country. My thoughts go out to these remaining veterans and I hope they will stay with us for a while yet.


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## Michael Dorosh (23 May 2006)

I dunno - I don't think I'd want to be the last veteran knowing there was a Death Watch hanging over me - and a huge observance that I would not get to see. And if the fellow who served with the USN and lived most of his life in the US is "the one", isn't that a little awkward? What if he wants to be buried in the US - we're gonna haul him up here for a state funeral?

Perhaps the passing could be marked by the award of an annual grant or something in the man's honour. Would be more appropriate - perhaps an annual university grant for descendants of First World War veterans serving in the cadets or CF or something?  Focus on living (ie his name will live on as part of the grant) rather than the dying.

Naming a building or structure or even a piece of equipment would be good too. Babcock Armouries,  HMCS Percy Wilson or the Clemett Fire Support Vehicle or somefink.


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## The Memory Project (9 Nov 2006)

Hello Everyone,

The Dominion Institute is calling on the federal government to offer the family of the last Great War veteran resident in Canada a full State Funeral. The Institute is now collecting signatures on an online petition which it will present to the Prime Minister.

Please sign and forward to your colleagues, friends and family:

http://www.dominion.ca/petition/


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## FormerHorseGuard (9 Nov 2006)

i signed it


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## Nfld Sapper (9 Nov 2006)

//SIGNED//


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## Devlin (9 Nov 2006)

Signed


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## niner domestic (9 Nov 2006)

While I agree with the gesture, I'm very much creeped out with all this activity surrounding the future deaths of the last three Canadian WWI vets.  What I'd like to know is how do these last three men feel about this petition to the Government? I'm somewhat dismayed that rather enjoying and celebrating their centenary plus 5-6 lives, we are discussing their deaths as if they have already occurred.  Hence the creep factor.  

What do these men want done at their funerals?  And why just the last one? There must be some merit in being the last 3 of thousands of Canadians who fought in the Great War to warrant all of them receiving a state funeral?


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## super26 (9 Nov 2006)

signed


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## armyvern (9 Nov 2006)

Signed


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## Spencer100 (9 Nov 2006)

Signed


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## MP101 (9 Nov 2006)

signed


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## golova (9 Nov 2006)

Signed and disseminated.


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## ARMY ISSUE (9 Nov 2006)

Signed  34923


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## Teflon (10 Nov 2006)

Signed


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## silentbutdeadly (10 Nov 2006)

signed! they need 28 more for 50 thou! Come on people!


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## IrishCanuck (10 Nov 2006)

Signed.

It says they only have 41 007 signatures though.


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## Pearson (13 Nov 2006)

66702 as of now.


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## Pearson (13 Nov 2006)

Either a national paper put the link in and the Canadian Public is making a statement, or the counter is messed up. Since I posted earlier, it is climbing at a rate of 3 or 3 signatures a second. Now over 72250.

Down about 72235 I find this.

"Strongly disagree. I/we know nothing about their military history. A quick search of soldiers on the WW1 site I find only one listed, and he was underage?? If the other 2 served with the British Army, they hardly qualify for Canadian memorialization!"

Maybe he is the father of the young lad in the legion here.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/53277/post-479721.html#msg479721


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## The Memory Project (16 Nov 2006)

Hello Everyone,

Thank you so much for your support of the petition to offer the family of the last Great War Veteran a State Funeral. The response has been overwhelming, and we are now at over 82,000 signatures. We still need your help to make the goal of 100,000. Please forward the petition on to friends and family!

www.dominion.ca/petition


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## tlg (16 Nov 2006)

Signed and signed. They deserve this.


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## spud (21 Nov 2006)

Looks like it's mission accomplished:  

The House of Commons has voted unanimously in favour of having a state funeral when the last Canadian veteran of the First World War dies.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/21/state-funeral.html


potato


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## a78jumper (21 Nov 2006)

I had to endure Jack Layton on the news this am as he outlined his motion......actually he was not that bad considering his past comments regarding other related military topics.

I think it is a wonderful tribute, not only to the last veteran, but all those who went before him. 

Only question I have is, what if he (or his family) does not want a state funeral? Some people prefer their passing to be a very private event, eg no visitation or service, simple cremation etc. I hope folks in govt considered this possibility and asked first.


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## Haggis (21 Nov 2006)

a78jumper said:
			
		

> Only question I have is, what if he (or his family) does not want a state funeral? Some people prefer their passing to be a very private event, eg no visitation or service, simple cremation etc. I hope folks in govt considered this possibility and asked first.



Whether it was considered or not (and I'm quite certain it was), this motion now gives the government the option of offering a state funeral to the family.  As with any offer, the family can decline if they or the deceased want a more private service.


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Nov 2006)

This should have been a no-brainer.

State funeral for last WWI vet approved by House

Last Updated: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 | 10:55 AM ET 
CBC News 
The House of Commons has voted unanimously in favour of having a state funeral when the last Canadian veteran of the First World War dies.

The motion, introduced by the NDP, asked the government to honour all who served in the First World War by sponsoring a state funeral.

Of the 619,636 Canadians who served between 1914 and 1918, only three are still alive: Percy Wilson, 105, and Lloyd Clemett and John Babcock, both 106.

A state funeral is one of the highest honours a country can bestow on a person, but they're traditionally reserved for prime ministers and governors general.

The motion was prompted by an online petition launched by the Dominion Institute, a national organization that promotes Canadian history.

"We want to thank the tens of thousands of Canadians who signed our petition in support of state funeral," Rudyard Griffiths, the director of the Dominion Institute, said in a statement.

"By passing a motion to offer a full state funeral today the Parliament of Canada will allow a grateful nation to pay proper tribute to our last Great War veteran on his passing and honour the over 600,000 Canadians he served with under arms from 1914-1918."

The Institute said that since Nov. 6, around 100,000 Canadians had signed the petition.

Commons approves motion for state funeral

Updated Tue. Nov. 21 2006 11:24 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The House of Commons voted unanimously Tuesday in favor of an NDP motion asking the government to sponsor a full state funeral when the last First World War veteran passes away.

Only three surviving First World War veterans - Dwight (Percy) Wilson, 105, and Lloyd Clemett and John Babcock, both 106 - are still alive.

NDP Leader Jack Layton said the government should recognize that a state funeral would celebrate "the contribution of a whole generation of Canadians who served, whether overseas or here at home and their families as well."

Layton told CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday morning that the funeral would allow the entire country to pay tribute to all those who served during the First World War.

"We won't be able to look them in the eyes anymore and thank them for their service the way we should for everyone who is willing to serve our country the way they did and our armed forces personnel still do," he said. 

The concept was first proposed before Remembrance Day by the Dominion Institute, which said such a funeral would help promote memories of the long-ago conflict.

"We want to thank the tens of thousands of Canadians who signed our petition in support of a State Funeral," Rudyard Griffiths, executive director of the Dominion Institute said in a written statement.

"By passing a motion to offer a full state funeral today the Parliament of Canada will allow a grateful nation to pay proper tribute to our last Great War veteran on his passing and honour the over 600,000 Canadians he served with under arms from 1914-1918." 

The veterans' advancing years created a groundswell of support for the proposal to follow the example of Australia, which held a state funeral for the final survivor of the Battle of Gallipoli.

By Tuesday morning, nearly 100,000 people had signed a petition on the institute's website asking that the Canadian government support the proposal.

There were initial concerns that the Conservatives would not support the motion.

A spokesman for Veterans Affairs Minister Greg Thompson had said the Tories wouldn't say whether they would back the motion until they saw it.

A poll released on Remembrance Day found that three out of four respondents approve of a state funeral when the last First World War veteran dies.

State funerals are one of the highest honours a country can bestow on a person, but they're traditionally reserved for prime ministers and governors general. 

More than 600,000 Canadians served in the First World War and 60,000 of those were killed.


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## a78jumper (21 Nov 2006)

True, however it kind of puts the family on the spot if they decline. I do hope the event happens, closure for all those that were affected by WW1.

My Grandmother, born in 1900, originally from Glasgow was not an emotional or demonstrative woman, but I do remember her telling me that she lost many, many of her cousins and also male friends she grew up with. I was 41 years removed from the end of The Great War, and it still impacted on me, though not directly.


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## BernDawg (21 Nov 2006)

If the family does not want a state funeral can they not decline the honour?  At any rate the mechanism is in place to have one if they do and that is what's so important about this if you ask me.

Cheers
Bern


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## cplcaldwell (21 Nov 2006)

From CBC.ca 
Shared under the Fair Dealings Provisions of the Copyright Act, RSC



> *House approves state funeral for last WWI vet
> Last Updated: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 | 10:55 AM ET
> CBC News *
> 
> ...


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## geo (21 Nov 2006)

Here's a suggestion:
If the individual declines or his family refuses, then fine, so be it.

If they don't want it, then we do not need to make it a state funeral BUT, in it's stead, we can have a concurrent memorial service, across Canada, to mark the passing of the generation that fought in the great war...


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## Nfld Sapper (21 Nov 2006)

+100000000000000 on that one Geo.


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## a78jumper (22 Nov 2006)

Apparently Mr Babcock has declined, stating he has been in the USA for most of his life, is a US citizen, and never made it to the front as he was waiting deployment from England when the war ended.


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## geo (22 Nov 2006)

Good grief..... a man with spunk AND principle!
Must've been an NCO

This man would not like to meet Jack Layton !


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## cplcaldwell (22 Nov 2006)

From today's Globe and Mail

_my emphasis added_



> *First World War vet declines state funeral
> U.S. citizen who never fought says honour would make him uncomfortable
> BILL CURRY
> 
> ...




_Shared under the Fair Dealings Provisions of the Copyright Act, RSC_


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## AJFitzpatrick (22 Nov 2006)

> "While it sounds good, I think we have to examine all options and do due diligence before we go forward," said Saskatchewan MP Tom Lukiwski, the parliamentary secretary to the Government House Leader. "We want to make sure that all veterans are included in any kind of a ceremony or recognition, not just one."



I think the honourable member has just missed the point, this is not about all veterans. It is about WWI veterans, whose final representative is being honoured It is blunt to sat it but there will be no additional WWI veterans to include. Perhaps he just misspoke.


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## geo (23 Nov 2006)

Top marks for ideas but, failing marks for planning and due dilligence

My suggestion is that the country starts planning for concurrent memorial services right across the country.... followed by the equivalent of an Irish wake in the local legion halls, messes & pubs.


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## Kat Stevens (23 Nov 2006)

Am I alone in being a little creeped out by a dead pool for the coolest funeral?  They're ALL national treasures at this stage of the game, would three state funerals really cost that much more than one?  If so, maybe the GGofC could forgo a cocktail party or weekend at the cabin to help cover the costs.


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## geo (23 Nov 2006)

Kat.... by the sounds of things, not one of them wants the state funeral.

WRT the GGs entertainment budget, she/he entertains at the request of the Gov't...... so the GG is not, IMHO a problem.


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## Kat Stevens (23 Nov 2006)

Never mind.  The point was that EVERYONE at the cocaine factory pisses away more money than a funeral cost on pretty trivial crap daily, but okay.


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## geo (23 Nov 2006)

Kat,
I agree with ya that the Gov'ts at all levels blow cash away like a bunch of drunken sailors ( ) and that spending a wee bit to mark the passing of the generation that marched thru Flanders, Vimy and as far as Vladivostok should be recognized. 

A good old fashioned wake would be good for me.  Offer the 3 families the $$ for them to conduct the service they want to have.... AND hold memorial services to recognize all of them.

IMHO!

CHIMO!


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## schart28 (2 Jan 2007)

CBC News: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007/01/02/veteran-funeral.html


The Canadian government has agreed to hold a state funeral for the last First World War veteran to die, but none of the three veterans still living wants a state funeral.

The niece of one veteran, Lloyd Clemett, said her uncle would rather have a simple memorial service.

"He himself feels there should not be attention given to the last person, but the attention should be given to them all," said niece Merle Kaczanowski, who is Clemett's guardian.

Her uncle, who is in a Toronto hospital, turned 107 last month.

The other two remaining veterans, Percy Wilson and John Babcock, are over the age of 100 as well. Both have indicated that, for now at least, they are not interested in a state funeral.

Veterans Affairs officials said they're aware the three veterans don't want state funerals and they're looking into other options. They would not say what those options are.

The family of the last living veteran must agree to a state funeral for the funeral to take place.

In November, 100,000 Canadians signed an online petition demanding that the government hold a state funeral for the last veteran. A poll launched that same month found that 75 per cent of Canadians are in favour of the idea.

On Nov. 21, Canadian MPs voted unanimously to have the funeral.

State funerals are one of the highest honours Canada can bestow on a person. They are usually reserved for prime ministers and governors general.

The Toronto-based Dominion Institute, which launched the petition and conducted the poll, is still pushing for a state funeral. The institute said the government would be unwise to ignore the will of Parliament.

The last three living veterans were among 619,636 Canadians who served in the First World War.


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## Pte_Martin (3 Jan 2007)

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/53140/post-477926.html#msg477926

Seems to me that a couple people where right when they said to let veterans decide if they want a state funeral or not, instead of people jumping all over other people this should be a lesson to wait and see and not to jump on other peoples comments right away


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## Trinity (3 Jan 2007)

AMEN


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