# D-DAY



## 043 (21 Jan 2005)

D-Day by Stephen Ambrose! An incredible book with astounding detail!!! Does't just focus on the US but on all of the Allied and Axis preperations. Throughout the book you are able to identify with each principle of war. A great learning tool!


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## Alex252 (21 Jan 2005)

I liked the book alot, although he couldve shed a little more info on Juno, but otherwise a good read


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## Infanteer (21 Jan 2005)

From what I'ver read, Steven Ambrose is a horrible writer.

I still cannot believe that "Band of Brothers", which was such an excellent movie, was drawn from such a shitty book....


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## Big Bad John (22 Jan 2005)

IMHO, not a great writer, good but not great.  Great historian though.  I've read all his works.  Good solid facts with colour.  My two pennies worth.


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## sigpig (22 Jan 2005)

If you are looking for an account from the German side - Invasion: They're Coming by Paul Carell. Superb book covering everything from the idiocy of the High Command to the frustration of the professional front line soldier dealing with total allied air superiority. Throws new light on a topic not covered well by the western press.


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## Alex252 (22 Jan 2005)

Hmmm I guess I disagree with you infanteer, i think hes the best. Why dont you like his work


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## 043 (30 Jan 2005)

What does IMHO mean?


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## Big Bad John (31 Jan 2005)

IMHO:  In my humble opinion


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## Michael Dorosh (31 Jan 2005)

Ambrose isn't a bad writer - Infanteer means he's a bad researcher.

And, come to that, he's not a stellar writer, either.  

Band of Brothers, for example, was mostly ok - except for one truly bizarre page in which Ambrose asserts - without a single fact in evidence, a single source or quote to back him up - that the US Army won WW II because it was morally superior to the Germans, and that having a democratically elected government back home made the difference.  My jaw hit the ground when I read it.

The US Army was actually more dictatorially run than the German Army in WW II, so the military certainly didn't reflect that "democracy beats all" attitude that Ambrose wraps himself up in.

I'm inclined to give Ambrose a pass on the severe criticisms of plagiarism (which are true enough), and I realize he is "history-lite" which is cool too, since he introduced so many people to WW II history.  And he is right about that entire generation of people, not just in the US, but all over the world, who answered their nations' call.

But among historians, he really doesn't have as high a standing as so many other luminaries.  He chose his path, and I think he was comfortable with it and was in fact good at what he did - mass producing readable, inspiring history that was aimed at a wide audience and more interested in effect that in establishing facts.


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## Infanteer (1 Feb 2005)

Michael summed up my thoughts exactly.   Band of Brothers, while interesting, was written in the "me and my buddies, while in Normandy...." style of writing.   This can be good history, but Ambrose wasn't there with his buddies.   Since he bills himself as a military historian and yet writes subjective battle stories (eg: such-and-such experienced a brutal shelling - while not bothering to check German sources for other evidence on that particular day/operation), he gets put in the "History-Lite" department (of which Canada's version is Mark Zuhlke of Ortona fame).

There is nothing really wrong with that per se; as Michael says, it can be a great way to introduce many to military history.   However, when it comes to getting objective facts, this "genre" of writing quickly falls to the wayside, most likely to be picked up as a great movie script (which it seems more oriented towards).   I couldn't see a CBC miniseries based on John English's The Canadian Army in Normandy - I'd probably be the only one to watch it....


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## Alex252 (1 Feb 2005)

Oh ok now I understand. Thanks Mr Dorosh/Infanteer for cleaning that up for me


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## karl28 (6 Feb 2005)

I hope that this wont offend any and apologize if it does . But if you want to read a book on the German side of the war here is one you might consider "Stuka Pilot " by Hans Ulrich Rudel its a good book and it does not glorify war just the experience of one stuka pilot who survived the  whole war on the eastern front


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## Michael Dorosh (6 Feb 2005)

karl28 said:
			
		

> I hope that this wont offend any and apologize if it does . But if you want to read a book on the German side of the war here is one you might consider "Stuka Pilot " by Hans Ulrich Rudel its a good book and it does not glorify war just the experience of one stuka pilot who survived the  whole war on the eastern front



Heh....if you believe a word of it.  I enjoyed the book, but like most post-war accounts, Rudel presents the German military in Russia in pretty glowing terms.  He was a dedicated Nazi but to read his book, you would think he had never even heard the word "Jew" in his life, much less supported the anti-semetic policies of his masters.  What the book does glorify is himself - rightly so, in a sense, as he was the most highly decorated soldier of the period, being the only one awarded the Golden Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds to the Knight's Cross - they had to invent the medal just for him because they ran out of awards.  He flew 2500 sorties and refused direct orders from Goering and Hitler to stop flying - and continued flying even after losing part of a leg in combat.  Would be inspiring had he been fighting so hard for a better cause.


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## Infanteer (6 Feb 2005)

Interestingly enough, Rudel's book was a key input into the design of the A-10 (Warthog).


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## karl28 (6 Feb 2005)

Thanks Michale  for not being upset I read books on all accounts from the allied an axis's. I totally agree with you on that books account it never mentions any of the Germans atrocities committed in the war or how they treated the  Russian civilians witch was quite Harsh .    IN my line of work as a PSW I have the chance to look after alto of vets and learnt alto from there experience .


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## PeAcH (16 Feb 2005)

this doesnt have very much relevence tothis topic but if anyone can find a good bio on steven ambrose i would appritiate if they could post it i am doin a english essay/presentation on him and i can not find a good bio. thanks.


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