# CF Short Service Medals



## Royal (15 Feb 2008)

"It is the recommendation of the Executive of the Council of the Honorary Colonels of Canada that the Government of Canada, the Canadian Armed Forces and the Parliament of Canada support the issuing of a four-year service medal to all past and present Regular and Reservist members of the Canadian Armed Forces as a signal of appreciation for their commitment to Canada and the Armed Forces of our Country."

Motion passed unanimously: 10 December 2007, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.  Prepared by Col. the Hon. John A. Fraser 

What is your take on this?  Don't we already have a CD?


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Feb 2008)

Sounds like its for those who pull pin before the 12 years of undetected crimes loyal service.


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## Royal (15 Feb 2008)

If you are already racking-up time towards the CD, you can't rack-up time for the Short service medal.  Rewarding you twice for the same time served, an all that....

So should this only be awarded to retired/released members?  The wording of "past and present" members implies otherwise.


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## fbr2o75 (15 Feb 2008)

Why not????


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## dapaterson (15 Feb 2008)

It's a copy of what the Aussies did.  The goal would be to reward 4 years of service.

My observation:  If someone is going to pull pin and decides to stick for one more year merely to collect a bauble, we probably don't want them to stay anyways.


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## George Wallace (15 Feb 2008)

Is this going to be an actual medal, or just a pin; as with the long service pin that one gets on retirement?


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## dapaterson (15 Feb 2008)

The HCols want a medal.


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## Trinity (15 Feb 2008)

I'd love another medal.. but not this way  :-[


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## Teddy Ruxpin (15 Feb 2008)

This idea has been floated for a while.  Here's the Aussie version:

http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours/awards/medals/australian_defence_medal.cfm


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## Dirty Patricia (15 Feb 2008)

Why not?  At least there is some criteria.  In addition to the Aussies, the British made similar criteria for the Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal.  I beleive one had to have six years service to qualify.  In the past we've given people medals for nothing specific - Alberta Centennial medal, Queen's Golden and Silver Jubilee Medals, Canada 125, Canadian Centennial Medal.........


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## PMedMoe (15 Feb 2008)

Dirty Patricia said:
			
		

> In the past we've given people medals for nothing specific - Alberta Centennial medal, Queen's Golden and Silver Jubilee Medals, Canada 125, Canadian Centennial Medal.........



Dart board medals!!


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Feb 2008)

The makes us feel like the americans medal  ;D


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## Dirty Patricia (15 Feb 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> The makes us feel like the americans medal  ;D



The Americans do have a lot of medals and ribbons, but at least they have to do something to merit every award, however seemingly insignificant.  Ask a guy what he did to get a 125 or QGJ.


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## Reccesoldier (15 Feb 2008)

No.

Medals aren't meant to be easy to get.  It's not a competition they aren't intended to be a graphic of your MPRR.

Take a long hard look at those medals that you are comparing this proposed one to.  The QGJ, Canada 125, hell add in the NATO SSM and the CPSM.  What are the comments most often associated with these baubles?  Gimme medals, the Brockey Bong...  "Hey what is that one for?"  "I don't know I was selected at random for it." (125 and QGJ)

Do we really need another medal to deride?  Sheesh, the CD gets a bad enough rap.


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Feb 2008)

Dirty Patricia said:
			
		

> The Americans do have a lot of medals and ribbons, but at least they have to do something to merit every award, however seemingly insignificant.  Ask a guy what he did to get a 125 or QGJ.



I know DP was just trying to make some humor on the subject. As for the 125/QGJ/et al I never liked the paper, rock, just f**king give me it/ who did you brown nose to get it way.

My 2 rupees take it for what its worth.


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## Haggis (15 Feb 2008)

However, in typically Canadian fashion, we must ensure that no regulation, order or directive is interpreted or applied to treat the Regular and Reserve Force equally and fairly.  Therefore, I ask:

Now, how do we define 4 "years" of service?  Do we award this for four calendar years of service or four cumulative years of service?

A Class "A" Reservists is typically authorized to parade 37.5 days per year.  If he maxes out attendance, he could potentially earn this medal with:

a. 150 days of cumulative days service over four calendar years; or
b. Four cumulative years of service (365 X 4) over 38.5 calendar years?

Before anyone dogpiles on me and if you think I'm being faceitious whit this, I am not.  This very question has been floating around NDHQ the last few months regarding the calculation of Reserve Class "A" time towards CD eligibility.  One school of thought says 12 "calendar years" of service.  Another says 12 "cumulative years of full time equivalent" service , wherein Class "A" time is valued in the same manner as for Class "C" IPC, Reg F TCP and RFPP eligibility at 1/4 time.  Based on the latter, a Class A Reservist who parades diligently, 37.5 days per year, every year, could take up to 467.2 years to accrue 12 "cumulative" years of "full time equivalent" service.

I wonder if the enabling regulations have been drafted yet????


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## toughenough (15 Feb 2008)

I guess they want the Pat Platoon to turn out better on 11 Nov?

(As an FNG...) One of the things I've always loved about us is that (for the most part), the guys wearing medals all deserve them, especially compared to the some other countries getting ribbons for passing basic training and such. We don't have brand new kids off their recruit courses looking like decorated vets.

With the way course loading sometimes works, I was nearly half way to this medal before even completing DP1...Seems a little strange. Especially for the PRes.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (15 Feb 2008)

> However, in typically Canadian fashion, we must ensure that no regulation, order or directive is interpreted or applied to treat the Regular and Reserve Force equally and fairly.  Therefore, I ask:
> 
> Now, how do we define 4 "years" of service?  Do we award this for four calendar years of service or four cumulative years of service?
> 
> ...



Another reason, to my mind, why we should (as the Aussies have done) have separate LS medals for Regulars and Reservists.

As for this one, methinks that this may partially be driven by a desire amongst some (Honoraries?) to have confetti on their uniforms where there would otherwise be none.  Then again, maybe it's just me... >


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## Reccesoldier (15 Feb 2008)

Haggis said:
			
		

> However, in typically Canadian fashion, we must ensure that no regulation, order or directive is interpreted or applied to treat the Regular and Reserve Force equally and fairly.  Therefore, I ask:
> 
> Now, how do we define 4 "years" of service?  Do we award this for four calendar years of service or four cumulative years of service?
> 
> ...



Those issues are sorted out by Order in Council's not by military orders.

As for the CD issue you brought up that is already set in stone by the appropriate Order in Council.


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## Blackadder1916 (15 Feb 2008)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> Another reason, to my mind, why we should (as the Aussies have done) have separate LS medals for Regulars and Reservists.



The Aussies no longer have separate medals.
http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours/awards/medals/defence_long_service_medal.cfm


> The Defence Long Service Medal recognises 15 years diligent service by members of the Regular and Reserve Forces.
> 
> History
> The Defence Long Service Medal was established in 1998 on the recommendation of the 1994 Committee of Inquiry into Defence and Defence Related Awards.
> ...



The Australian version of a short service medal (Australian Defence Medal) may be more appropriate to their circumstances because a large number of no longer serving recipients were National Servicemen.  The recognition of those individuals (who didn't have a choice in serving) may have been a factor in adopting that award.


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## George Wallace (15 Feb 2008)

Dirty Patricia said:
			
		

> The Americans do have a lot of medals and ribbons, but at least they have to do something to merit every award, however seemingly insignificant.  Ask a guy what he did to get a 125 or QGJ.



Umm?  Brushing your teeth in the Field.  Passing your pers wpn test on Basic.  Are we going to go that route too, and create a Ribbon System (without medal) just like theirs?


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## Teddy Ruxpin (15 Feb 2008)

> The Aussies no longer have separate medals.



Seen, thanks.  I was stale-dated, obviously.  The Reserve Force Medal and Decoration still appear on the Aussie website, but I didn't bother clicking the links - where it clearly states that the medals are now obsolete.


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## riggermade (15 Feb 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> I know DP was just trying to make some humor on the subject. As for the 125/QGJ/et al I never liked the paper, rock, just f**king give me it/ who did you brown nose to get it way.
> 
> My 2 rupees take it for what its worth.



I agree Sapper should have been all or nobody receive...I was at a unit that got rwo of the 125 and the fat cO at the time gave himself one...


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## 1feral1 (15 Feb 2008)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> It's a copy of what the Aussies did.  The goal would be to reward 4 years of service.
> 
> My observation:  If someone is going to pull pin and decides to stick for one more year merely to collect a bauble, we probably don't want them to stay anyways.



I had a feeling one day that this would come.

Google Australian Defence Medal (EDIT:  Isee this has ben done), and see the qualifications and criteria. It has been well received by most.

Its a medal for doing your 4 yr bit, it originally was 6 yrs, but the RSL (our Legion) washed it down to 4yrs.

For those that are medically discharged or die before the four yrs is up, they get it. The Aussie gong's ribbon is similar to the CD.

Ours goes back to reg/res from 1946 onwards, so it was a huge project.


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## SweetNavyJustice (15 Feb 2008)

I think the idea of a new 'gimme' medal is ridiculous.  There is nothing that I think looks more stupid than when you see a guy who has a chest full of armour and has never left the country!  (Can 125, Queens Jub, St. John's, CD, etc...).  I don't say this to disrespect people who have those awards because I'm sure some of them received them for their service as opposed to those who played the 'nominate me, I'll nominate you' game.  

We have a service medal to demonstrate dedicated service, and we don't need one for those who served one year over the minimum NCM contract.  Can you imagine, it would mean that all of the officers coming out of RMC would get their commission and a medal on parade right before walking under the arch.  

Just my thoughts.


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## 1feral1 (15 Feb 2008)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> Another reason, to my mind, why we should (as the Aussies have done) have separate LS medals for Regulars and Reservists.
> 
> As for this one, methinks that this may partially be driven by a desire amongst some (Honoraries?) to have confetti on their uniforms where there would otherwise be none.  Then again, maybe it's just me... >



Hey Black, you've done your homework. Good on ya!

Back in the 90's the two different medals stopped being issued, and the new ADFLSM came in. Now one medal for  both ARA/AGR.

For the AGR, with the ADM, you can have 10 yrs in, but if you are not 'efficient' with parading a mininum set of days each year (includes a 16 day ex (like a MILCON) and not meeting other criteria, you don't get it, same goes with the ADFLSM, you must be 'efficient' for 15 yrs to get it. If not you don't. So, you just don't get one given for being in. Its earned. In the AGR, you must apply through your BOR, they do the legwork on seeing if you qualify for both the ADM and the ADFLSM medals. In the ARA, the medals come automatically, and you get a suprise on a morning parade. We have a a big parade this Thursday, and have been warned to drink plenty of water before hand, meaning it will be a long one.

Teddy has posted the ADM criteria, and if you go to that site, search for the Australian Defence Force Long Service Medal and have a look.

These are medals, awards given to those who earn them, ya we can joke around sure, but at the end of the day, its something to pass on to your kids, and should be appreciated. All my gongs, even my 125, I apprecaite, and I am proud of very much, as I am with my Iraq campaign medal and AASM w/bar.

Should this new CF medal come to fruition, yes I will apply for it. Yes I will have it court mounted with the others.

Regards,

Wes

Cheers,

Wes


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## George Wallace (15 Feb 2008)

SweetNavyJustice said:
			
		

> I think the idea of a new 'gimme' medal is ridiculous.  There is nothing that I think looks more stupid than when you see a guy who has a chest full of armour and has never left the country! ..............................................  Can you imagine, it would mean that all of the officers coming out of RMC would get their commission and a medal on parade right before walking under the arch.
> 
> Just my thoughts.



Not to mention Cpls.  We can call it the "Cpl's Medal". 

           Four years and you get two chevrons and a medal to put on your DEUs.


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## 1feral1 (15 Feb 2008)

Haggis said:
			
		

> However, in typically Canadian fashion, we must ensure that no regulation, order or directive is interpreted or applied to treat the Regular and Reserve Force equally and fairly.  Therefore, I ask:
> 
> Now, how do we define 4 "years" of service?  Do we award this for four calendar years of service or four cumulative years of service?
> 
> ...



Is there anyone who ever did the mininum and got anywhere? He would be released on an admin burden ticket.

What about promotion and trades courses, plus summer service etc. If a guy did the mininum, he would never get a hook, or get past OCDT. I don't buy that for a second.


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## 1feral1 (15 Feb 2008)

Does anyone have a link for more info on this medal. I can't find one.

Cheers,

Wes


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## dapaterson (15 Feb 2008)

Wes:

It doesn't exist - it's the hobby-horse of some Honoraries; they have been pursuing it for a number of years.  They saw the spike in releases at the three-year point and decided this would make a fine retention tool.

What they ignore is that the Reg Force initial engagement was for 3 years (now moving to variable length IEs) - so naturally attrition was high at the 3 year mark - it's when the contracts run out.


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## Royal (15 Feb 2008)

I think that the main focus should not be on the medal, but on the criteria for who gets it.  There should be no serving member receiving this.  Those four years go towards the CD.  This should be a retiremnt medal for those who do not stay in long-enough.  It would improve the Depart with Dignity program and be a way of saying thank-you.

As for the PRes component, I am a proponent of the Aussi method, you need to have a set minimum number of days and exercises befor you get the entitlement.  For some it could be 4 calendar years because they love that s&%t, and for others it could take longer as they mark time.  The CD entitlement would then need to be re-alligned for the Short Svc Med (what do you call it, we already have an SSM?) so that you get one or the other, but not both until you had done the time for both.

Last point, how many clasps could you get on the Short Svc Medal??


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## Sub_Guy (15 Feb 2008)

Good Lord people, its a good thing I have shares with Scott paper products, with the amount of moaning and dripping that is taking place on this thread my dividends are sure to be huge this year.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 4 year service medal, there is nothing wrong with being recognized for something you have accomplished.  If they want to hand out 4 year medals then go for it!   It's just something to pass down to my kids when I punch out.

Now handing out medals to a selected few (125, QGJ medals), either all serving members get them, or no one gets them.


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## George Wallace (15 Feb 2008)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Good Lord people, its a good thing I have shares with Scott paper products, with the amount of moaning and dripping that is taking place on this thread my dividends are sure to be huge this year.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 4 year service medal, there is nothing wrong with being recognized for something you have accomplished.  If they want to hand out 4 year medals then go for it!   It's just something to pass down to my kids when I punch out.
> 
> Now handing out medals to a selected few (125, QGJ medals), either all serving members get them, or no one gets them.


  

Seems to me that the only reason all serving members did not get the 125, QGJ, etc. was because it was too expensive.  Now we want to give out a medal for four years, a medal for being wounded, a CIB, and how many other bobbles because a younger generation now merits a person's worth on the salad on their uniform.  My how times have changed.  Where has all the money come from?


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## Dirty Patricia (15 Feb 2008)

Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> Good Lord people, its a good thing I have shares with Scott paper products, with the amount of moaning and dripping that is taking place on this thread my dividends are sure to be huge this year.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 4 year service medal, there is nothing wrong with being recognized for something you have accomplished.  If they want to hand out 4 year medals then go for it!   It's just something to pass down to my kids when I punch out.
> 
> Now handing out medals to a selected few (125, QGJ medals), either all serving members get them, or no one gets them.



My point exactly.


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## Dirty Patricia (15 Feb 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> a medal for being wounded, a CIB, and how many other bobbles because a younger generation now merits a person's worth on the salad on their uniform.  My how times have changed.



A bit bitter perhaps?  The "previous" generation received a medal for eating bratwurst and drinking beer, perhaps the "younger" generation should get something for combat.


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## George Wallace (15 Feb 2008)

Dirty Patricia said:
			
		

> A bit bitter perhaps?  The "previous" generation received a medal for eating bratwurst and drinking beer, perhaps the "younger" generation should get something for combat.



 :

Yeah!  Right!


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## Disenchantedsailor (15 Feb 2008)

too many people watching American movies thinking they deserve a medal for 6 months svc without contracting a social disease, come on really, we give out a short svc medal, than what, saved the most money, golf with the career mgr, polish the co's helmet and so on. Canada is one of the last militaries left that don't hand out medals as "sorry you didn't get promoted" consolation prizes. my thoughts


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## 1feral1 (15 Feb 2008)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> too many people watching American movies thinking they deserve a medal for 6 months svc without contracting a social disease, come on really, we give out a short svc medal, than what, saved the most money, golf with the career mgr, polish the co's helmet and so on. Canada is one of the last militaries left that don't hand out medals as "sorry you didn't get promoted" consolation prizes. my thoughts



Most British Commonweath countries work along the same margines for medals. The UK, Australia, NZ, Canada etc are about the same. It was not that long ago (pre SSM days) that in both Canada and Australia one could do 30 yrs and only have a CD w/clasps.

This new CF medal (if it happens) cheapens nothing. It gives recogniton for those who served in peace and war inside of four years. There is nothing wrong with that.

Does not one still get an SSM with a complete tour of Alert?

The phobia of Canada going the way of our US neighbours is just plain paranoia. The US have a different awards system, and it is part of their military culture. We shoud not knock it or ridicule it. It shows a lack of not only understanding and respect, but lack of professionalism.

Seems many of the uninfomred have a cheap view of the US Purple Heart for example (mislead by movies - left on beds and given for a cut shaving etc). They are not just handed out for anything. I was at a 'orders' PH ceremony at FOB Union III, and how its done, seeing one awarded, made my hair stand on end. It was truly honourable. There is nothing cheap about it for a second. Those that think so should be ashamed. I felt privillaged just to watch this, and I left there feeling rather humble to boot.

This new CF medal is just one medal, not 10, nor will it lead to more similar ones.  

The Australian ADM also works as an incentive for retainment of troops, so it helps keeping the numbers up. For some it matters, others don't really care. 

My 2 cents.

Wes


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## George Wallace (15 Feb 2008)

True Wes, but with the current Political climate and a younger generation who weren't raised the same with the same morals, ethics, etc. as you, there may be some cause for that paranoia.  Is it really that important?   Will the world end if we do or not?  Nope.  Do we degrade our current Honours System by "cheapening it"?  Perhaps.  Will it change how you look at yourself in the mirror on Nov 11?  Probably not.  Do some people need this to make their opinions of their manhood/womanhood improve?  Perhaps.  I look for honesty and loyalty in people I meet.  What they wear as decoration on a uniform really has little affect on that.  I do despise liars, thieves and posers, though; and this only provides more opportunities for such low life to impersonate 'professionals'.  Those people I have no time for, and I have met one or two in my Service, who have used such devices as Operational Para Wings on their CFs, when they didn't even have Basic Para, to impress others.  Badges and medals don't make the man; the man does.


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## medaid (15 Feb 2008)

I think the idea is neat. Do I really care if I get one or not? Not really. 

Service is service. At the end of the day I have my pride, and honour. That suits me just fine.


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## Disenchantedsailor (15 Feb 2008)

it's not so much a short svc medal itself, however we do give a gratuity to reservists who serve over 10 years before packing it in, whether they earn the CD or not, but there is a call to change the "wound stripe" to a wound medal, simaler to our US Conterparts, and our own version of the CIB, not important to Canadians of of the world wars and Korea, now if a soldier goes on a UN tour (if we start doing those large scale again) they are entitled to 2 medals for that 1 OP, it just seems that the focus these days is on the bling and not "service before self"

This is my thinking on a short svc medal, give it to the guys who get broken before they can make 12 year unprosecuted crime, but 4 years, hell thats most of the new basic engagements, come on in do your first contract we'll give you a gong and the post nom to go with it and you can go your merry way, when others can spend 20 years chasing that golden wristwatch and walk away with a CD and a fancy piece of paper, tell me where is the justice to those willing to stick around for the long run, when you can get the same thing just after your olde enough to drink in the states. 

And George you really beat me too it on that one.


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## 1feral1 (15 Feb 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Badges and medals don't make the man; the man does.


+10.

Medals, CIB's etc do give recognition of 'services rendered'.

Awards and decs are worthy, and when I am retired, I can look back at my whole adult life as a soldier, and pass on my medals to the next generation of relations to cherish once I've carked it.

There will always be posers. WW2, Korea,  VN, UN missions, the new post 9-11 wars, etc. People who forge Uni degrees etc. There is always the weak who attempt to tarnish the ones who are for real.

This new war will open a whole new can of worms for them, not only in Canada and the US, but here too. So far over 20,000 Australians have seen service in the MEAO already. 


Cheers,

Wes


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## Dirty Patricia (15 Feb 2008)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> The phobia of Canada going the way of our US neighbours is just plain paranoia. The US have a different awards system, and it is part of their military culture. We shoud not knock it or make fun of it.



Too true.  You just have to browse this thread to see peoples ignorance about the American awards system.  Take the time to read up on their system before you knock it.  

I think Wes may back me up on this, but I feel Australia has an excellent system of honours and awards.  They are not afraid of using some American ideas, maintaining some British tradition and developing some ideas of their own.


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## 1feral1 (15 Feb 2008)

ArtyNewbie said:
			
		

> it's not so much a short svc medal itself, however we do give a gratuity to reservists who serve over 10 years before packing it in, whether they earn the CD or not, but there is a call to change the "wound stripe" to a wound medal, simaler to our US Conterparts, and our own version of the CIB, not important to Canadians of of the world wars and Korea, now if a soldier goes on a UN tour (if we start doing those large scale again) they are entitled to 2 medals for that 1 OP, it just seems that the focus these days is on the bling and not "service before self"
> 
> This is my thinking on a short svc medal, give it to the guys who get broken before they can make 12 year unprosecuted crime, but 4 years, hell thats most of the new basic engagements, come on in do your first contract we'll give you a gong and the post nom to go with it and you can go your merry way, when others can spend 20 years chasing that golden wristwatch and walk away with a CD and a fancy piece of paper, tell me where is the justice to those willing to stick around for the long run, when you can get the same thing just after your olde enough to drink in the states.
> 
> And George you really beat me too it on that one.



This reckon this new medal will happen (it will take years though), and I would not be suprised if the criteria will be based on the ADM.

Nothing wrong with the CIB either. I feel one is enough, not three types, thats as bad as the fitness badge thing from after I left. 

Of all my medals and awards, the ACB (Aussie CIB for non infantry) that I was awarded means alot. It was earned, and not everyone gets them. Nothing cheap about that!


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## Sub_Guy (15 Feb 2008)

It seems those who oppose it are so quick to say we are "Americanizing" our awards system.  If you don't like it throw your awards in the garbage, myself I think recognition is a good thing, does that mean I need a ribbon for getting up in the morning? No, it would be nice though  ;D

I have asked several of my American brothers in arms about their ribbons, and I have never heard anything negative, it has always been positive, but then again the American culture in reference to military service is much different than ours.   Its a good idea, now I wonder how long it will take to hammer out a contract, and will it go to a Quebec based company?    Jean "No New Medals!"


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## Michael OLeary (15 Feb 2008)

Getting back to a short service medal,

When the Canadian Forces Decoration (CD) was approved in 1949 (and announced in 1950), it replaced eight different long service medals which Canadian servicemen and women could be eligible for at that time:

RCN Long Service Medal (15 years service)
Royal Canadian Navy Voluntary Reserve (RCNVR) Long Service Medal  (12 years service)
RCNVR Officer's Decoration (15 years service)
Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (18 years service)
Efficiency Medal (12 years service)
Efficiency Decoration (20 years service, 12 years after 1949)
RCAF Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (18 years service)
Air Efficiency Award. (10 years service)

While there is no historic precedent in Canadian experience for a service medal with a term as short as 4 years, perhaps this should not be used as an exclusionary criteria.  I would be more interested in seeing the complete case for the medal, and how the proposal balances its projected use against the existing award (the CD).  Would a service member be awarded the 4-year medal and then have it replaced at 12 years?  

Or would both be worn?  There is some precedent for double long service awards (such as the EM and ED), but as far as I know the time frames for the non-commissioned and commissioned service in that example would not have been overlapping.


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## Blackadder1916 (16 Feb 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Getting back to a short service medal,
> . . .
> 
> While there is no historic precedent in Canadian experience for a service medal with a term as short as 4 years, perhaps this should not be used as an exclusionary criteria.  I would be more interested in seeing the complete case for the medal, and how the proposal balances its projected use against the existing award (the CD).  Would a service member be awarded the 4-year medal and then have it replaced at 12 years?
> ...



I could see a case made for a medal in which "one" of the qualifying criteria was a short period of service and which would have no effect on qualifying service for the Canadian Forces Decoration.  In fact most service (or campaign) medals have varying time periods for eligibility and they do not effect the qualifying period for long service and good conduct medals.  The CD falls into the category of a long service, good conduct or efficiency medal.  This class of medal is awarded for *completion of certain periods of service* (12 years being the basic period in Canada).  The medal proposed, as per the motion from the Honorary Colonels of Canada, would be awarded as a “signal of *appreciation for their commitment to Canada* and the Armed Forces of our Country”.  The time period of four years (or a similar short period) would be only one of the requirements.

The proposed medal has already been compared in this thread to the Australian Defence Medal.  "The Australian Defence Medal (ADM) has been established to recognise Australian Defence Force Regular and Reserve personnel *who have demonstrated their commitment and contribution to the nation by serving* for an initial enlistment period or four years service whichever is the lesser."   The Australian counterpart of the CD is the Defence Long Service Medal (DLSM) and like the CD is awarded for completion of a period of service.  The award of the ADM does not affect the award of the DLSM.

The Canadian Volunteer Service Medal awarded during WW2 could be considered in the same light as the proposed medal and its qualifying service had no effect on the award of any long service medals.

While it may be just semantics, there is a difference between a medal for completion of a specific number of years in service and one awarded in recognition of commitment to the nation for which one of the qualifying criteria is a set number of years.  At one time I would be in wholehearted agreement with those who think this proposal ill-conceived, redundant or just plain stupid.  It is very easy to say that those who deserve recognition in the form of medals already get adequately recognized.  But not everyone who joins (or served in the past) remains in military or naval service for a minimum of twelve years, a good number don't and most who stay that long remain until pensionable (career soldiers).  Not everyone has served overseas, or with a NATO force afloat or in special duty areas where they have earned a visible token of their service.  But the many who haven't still serve honourably defending Canada, doing what the country asks them to do; some in fact paying the ultimate price right here at home.


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## Lard of the Dance (29 Feb 2008)

Essentially, this is a reward for those who choose to leave the CF for civilian life or quite simply aren't cut out for the job! If memory serves me correctly, half of those four years are spent in training, even more for some trades. Hell, while we're at it let's have a second go around with the Queen's Jubilee, we all remember how that went.


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## Sig_Des (29 Feb 2008)

Lard of the Dance said:
			
		

> Essentially, this is a reward for those who choose to leave the CF for civilian life *or quite simply aren't cut out for the job!*



I don't buy that last statement for a second. I personally don't agree with a short-service medal, but let's be honest, just because someone leaves after their VIE, _doesn't_ mean they weren't cut out. I'm sure there are many outstanding soldiers that have chosen to get out, for personal or professional reasons.

Look at it this way. For almost half a decade, they served their country, and fullfilled the contract they said they would honor.

Besides, while maybe half of that contract may be on training, depending on trade, it's not unusual to see a young troop with a tour by the end of their first VIE.


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## Trinity (29 Feb 2008)

The sexton at my church retired after 10 years service.  I guess according to you he couldn't hack it.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (29 Feb 2008)

....and here I thought I got out on my own terms after 10 years,.......not until today did I realize I was just a pansy. :


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## IntlBr (29 Feb 2008)

Why exactly would this be only for people who have released - thats the only thing I don't understand about it, to be honest.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (29 Feb 2008)

So we don't get that "Boy Scout" look?


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## IntlBr (29 Feb 2008)

That strikes me as a pretty poor reason to only recognize people who released....


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## George Wallace (29 Feb 2008)

Corps of Guides said:
			
		

> That strikes me as a pretty poor reason to only recognize people who released....



As such, it should have some stipulations on it, to make it more or less an award outside of the Order of Awards, in that it would not be permitted to be worn should the person decide later in life to enlist in the CF a second time.


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## IntlBr (29 Feb 2008)

Well, several others have compared this to the Volunteer Service Medal of WWII reknown. I've heard veterans at my local legion refer to them as EBGMs (Every Bastard Got one Medal), and I've got my grandfather's at home, (along with his campaign stars, mounted, and behind glass) - but I don't think the military was tarnished by it then, and I don't see why it would be now.

Averaging something like this once every 60 years... We're doing okay!


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## Lard of the Dance (29 Feb 2008)

First off, I did not imply that all of those who choose to leave the Cf "can't hack it", and I most certainly did not call anybody a pansy. So, let's please leave the school games out of this. My point is that I disagree with medals awarded for a short term. All service is appreciated but a short service medal just isn't on, especially because members who continue their careers aren't awarded for their service until the 12 year mark.


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## Sig_Des (1 Mar 2008)

Lard of the Dance said:
			
		

> First off, I did not imply that all of those who choose to leave the Cf "can't hack it"



Well, that was certainly something of an implication when I read this. I will admit sometimes it's hard to read into statements online, but that's what I got here:



> Essentially, this is a reward for those who choose to leave the CF for civilian life or quite simply aren't cut out for the job



Like I said, I agree with you about the medal, for the same reasons, but the way it was presented seemed like a slam.


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## Lard of the Dance (1 Mar 2008)

Wasn't meant to come off as a slam, but I can see where it may come off as one. Apologies for that but I still hate the thought of the medal. Cheers!


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## tomahawk6 (1 Mar 2008)

The US Army doesnt have a long service medal just our Good Conduct Medal which is awarded after 3 year's of honorable and faithful service.

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/GOOD_CONDUCT_MEDAL.htm


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## horseman (6 Mar 2008)

Been back for a while from a year in the sandbox, where I was imbedded with the CF as the lone horseman. Great experience and great people in the CF, by the way.  Just a couple of rumours I thought I might bring to the discussion, as well as an 'outsiders' viewpoint on the medal discussion. May head off on some other threads but here goes...

1) I guess from the outside, I see any kind of recognition for the guys and gals 'over there' as a good thing - but realistically it can easily create dissention. I think much of it is in the attitude of the wearer...Saw the development, warts and all, of the Cdn. CIB - that looks like a recipe for problems. Of interest, when I was in Kandahar in 2005 on a TAV, the US Battle Group were scrapping because US personnel on KAF hit with rockets were claiming the career-building CIB while the grunts were out there fighting for it...funny how history repeats itself.

2) As for 'second class' medals, as an RCMP I am not allowed to get the same medal as the folks I worked along side of - GSM for me (same as the CANCAP folks). Fair? Probably not and I know it pissed some people off, but I have to admit I know what I did to earn it and I am proud of it just as much as my SWASM.  My father in law (may he rest in peace) was a Merchant Navy officer in WWII, PPCLI in Korea and Intelligence Corps (including the October Crisis) until he ended his career - when he died he had a fistful of medals. The only ones that really mattered to him? His North Atlantic Star and Burma Star - I guess because they meant the most to him personally for what he had done, including taking a torpedo from a U-Boat and surviving going down and stranded at sea. Food for thought.

3) The whole medal of sacrifice thing was discussed while I was there, as was the short service medal - nobody wants to be just like the Yanks but I don't think that will happen. Again, from an outsiders point of view a little bit of extra recognition doesn't hurt - although I do like the wound stripe(s). I wonder if the medal of sacrifice will extend to the families of those KIA? Perhaps something like that may be a very special posthumous recognition for the families? Just a thought.

4) Prior to rotating home, there were a couple of rumors which the Brass at least partially confirmed. They said the GCS (and the GSM) were going to be amalgamated into one medal (the Star) and named changed to 'Afghanistan Campaign Medal'. ISAF bar kept (no mention of what happens to the 'Allied Force' bar) and another bar issued with 'Kandahar' for 30 days or more service (or sorties in/out) within the Provincial boundaries of Kandahar. They also said it would allow roman numerals for tours. True? I am starting to doubt it as that line seems to have gone silent since I got back. Too bad - I felt for everybody who was doing their 3rd or 4th tour over there and had the same medal for their first 30 days on their first tour. The 'Kandahar' bar appealed to folks because it means something to show that you were there, etc. Again - as an outsider it seemed to be a good idea but the wheels of the CF turn slowly, I guess.

Anyway - there is my 5 cents - maybe up to a dime. Interested in hearing if anybody else heard similar rumours.


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## lone bugler (10 May 2008)

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/too-many.htm

i think this explains my point of view


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## 1feral1 (10 May 2008)

A soldier who spends 35yrs as a member of the Australian Army without deploying ends up with two medals. His long service and the ADM itself. There aint no chest full.

I don't think thats too many, and check out what the ADM is officially given out for before you use the link above.

The ADM has its purpose, and there is nothing cheap or wimpish about it. I am very proud of mine.

if and when the time comes the CF go for something similar, I'll be putting in for mine.

Some people will always be critical over nothing.


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## aussiechangover (11 May 2008)

Wesley  Down Under said:
			
		

> A soldier who spends 35yrs as a member of the Australian Army without deploying ends up with two medals. His long service and the ADM itself. There aint no chest full.
> 
> I don't think thats too many, and check out what the ADM is officially given out for before you use the link above.
> 
> ...



I have the ADM on my CF's and am proud of it. I spent 10 years in the Australian navy and the medal was introduced after i discharged. Originally I believe one of the conditions of this medal were to have completed an initial enlistment term, I'm not sure of what the aussie army terms are but mine were open ended which basically means no signups after 4 to 6 year period then i think it got change to min 4 years. In my personal opinion alot can happen in the navy in 4 years especially now in the environment we currently are. I've seen guys 21 years old that have been deployed on ships all over the place and probably have 6 medals but not the ADM, so although it's a short time it may not always be a gimme medal.


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