# FIBUA



## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Geoff Tyrell" <paraprimadonna@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:49:47 *
With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare training 
seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.  But 
Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for you 
Yanks.  Any info?
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:36:35 -0700*
Its certainly become a growing issue.  I understand that the American
Marines have taken it as there biggest challenge and where they believe the
next "troubles" will exist.  1 CMBG will actually be going through a major
MOUT in the old CFB Edmonton Grisblach site in the spring.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Tyrell 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
Subject: FIBUA
> With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare training
> seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.  But
> Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for
you
> Yanks.  Any info?
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:20:42 -0000*
Sorry, but translation required. FIBUA = ? And MOUT, likewise?
Cheers,
Joan
PS - JF, thanks for the virus detection. Not that I was rushing to open 
that particular attachment, mind you! : How goes your paper on the Aussie 
Forces?
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Donald Schepens" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: FIBUA
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:36:35 -0700
Its certainly become a growing issue.  I understand that the American
Marines have taken it as there biggest challenge and where they believe the
next "troubles" will exist.  1 CMBG will actually be going through a major
MOUT in the old CFB Edmonton Grisblach site in the spring.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Tyrell 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
Subject: FIBUA
 > With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare 
training
 > seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.  
But
 > Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for
you
 > Yanks.  Any info?
 >
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________________
 > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
 >
 > --------------------------------------------------------
 > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
 > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
 > message body.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Gow" <jgow@home.com>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:31:12 -0500*
FIBUA=Fighting in Built Up Areas
MOUT=?
NEWD= Night Exercise without Darkness
Merry Christmas, Joan!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan O. Arc" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: FIBUA
> Sorry, but translation required. FIBUA = ? And MOUT, likewise?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joan
>
> PS - JF, thanks for the virus detection. Not that I was rushing to open
> that particular attachment, mind you! : How goes your paper on the
Aussie
> Forces?
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Donald Schepens" 
> Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> To: 
> Subject: Re: FIBUA
> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:36:35 -0700
>
> Its certainly become a growing issue.  I understand that the American
> Marines have taken it as there biggest challenge and where they believe
the
> next "troubles" will exist.  1 CMBG will actually be going through a major
> MOUT in the old CFB Edmonton Grisblach site in the spring.
>
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Tyrell 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
> Subject: FIBUA
>
>
>  > With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare
> training
>  > seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.
> But
>  > Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for
> you
>  > Yanks.  Any info?
>  >
>  >
>  >
_________________________________________________________________________
>  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
>  >
>  > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>  > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>  > message body.
>
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>
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Pte Sean" <private_sean@budweiser.com>* on *18 Dec 2000 08:34:27 -0000*
In April 39 brigade goes to edmonton for a big fibua battle against the ppcli
On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:36:35 -0700 Donald Schepens  wrote:
>Its certainly become a growing issue.  I understand that the American
>Marines have taken it as there biggest challenge and where they believe the
>next "troubles" will exist.  1 CMBG will actually be going through a major
>MOUT in the old CFB Edmonton Grisblach site in the spring.
>
>Don
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Geoff Tyrell 
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
>Subject: FIBUA
>
>
>> With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare training
>> seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.  But
>> Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for
>you
>> Yanks.  Any info?
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>> message body.
>
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Alan Woolley <awoolley@iaw.on.ca>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:38:19 -0500*
FIBUA = Fighting In Built-Up Areas
MOUT = Military Operations in Urban Terrain
Cheers,
Alan Woolley
"Joan O. Arc" wrote:
> Sorry, but translation required. FIBUA = ? And MOUT, likewise?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joan
>
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:34:42 -0500*
Before I left Meaford last summer there was talk of a project to wire 
the ORTONA FIBUA Training Site in Meaford with the WES system enabling 
three-dimensional tracking of soldiers and engagements within the 
buildings and immediately surrounding area. I believe this project is 
ongoing and may be operational by summer 2001.
WES - Weapons Effects Simulator similar to MILES
Mike
The Regimental Rogue
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Tyrell 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
Subject: FIBUA
> With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare 
training
> seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.  
But
> Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT 
for you
> Yanks.  Any info?
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Before I left Meaford last summer there 
was talk of
a project to wire the ORTONA FIBUA Training Site in Meaford with the 
WES
system enabling three-dimensional tracking of soldiers and engagements 
within
the buildings and immediately surrounding area. I believe this project 
is
ongoing and may be operational by summer 2001.
WES - Weapons Effects Simulator 
similar to
MILES
Mike
The
Regimental Rogue
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Geoff Tyrell ltparaprimadonna@hotmail.com
gt
To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagt
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49
AM
Subject: FIBUA
gt With the growing trend 
towards
global urbanization, urban warfare training gt seems like it 
should be a
major doctrinal issue in every modern army. But gt Ive 
heard naught
about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for you gt 
Yanks.
Any info?
--------------------------------------------------------
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remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:17:22 -0700*
the same thing is happening in Wainwright as we speak.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mike Oleary
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: FIBUA
  Before I left Meaford last summer there was talk of a project to wire 
the ORTONA FIBUA Training Site in Meaford with the WES system enabling 
three-dimensional tracking of soldiers and engagements within the 
buildings and immediately surrounding area. I believe this project is 
ongoing and may be operational by summer 2001.
  WES - Weapons Effects Simulator similar to MILES
  Mike
  The Regimental Rogue
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Geoff Tyrell 
  To: 
  Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
  Subject: FIBUA
  > With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare 
training
  > seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern 
army.  But
  > Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT 
for you
  > Yanks.  Any info?
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
the same thing is happening in 
Wainwright as we
speak.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:
  Mike
  Oleary 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca 
  Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 
8:34
  AM
  Subject: Re: FIBUA

  Before I left Meaford last summer 
there was talk
  of a project to wire the ORTONA FIBUA Training Site in Meaford with 
the WES
  system enabling three-dimensional tracking of soldiers and engagements 
within
  the buildings and immediately surrounding area. I believe this project 
is
  ongoing and may be operational by summer 2001.

  WES - Weapons Effects Simulator 
similar to
  MILES

  Mike

  The
  Regimental Rogue

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Geoff Tyrell ltparaprimadonna@hotmail.com
gt
  To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagt
  Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49
  AM
  Subject: FIBUA
  gt With the growing trend 
towards
  global urbanization, urban warfare training gt seems like it 
should be a
  major doctrinal issue in every modern army. But gt Ive 
heard
  naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for you 
gt
  Yanks. Any info?
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remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *DHall058@aol.com* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:14:35 EST*
MOUT= Military Operations In Urban Terrain 
Because we Yanks can never just say stuff the easy way...
Cheers!
Dave Hall
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:26:57 -0500*
--------------6D363C86A8CD9DF596ED2673
GO PATS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pte Sean wrote:
> In April 39 brigade goes to edmonton for a big fibua battle against the ppcli
>
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:36:35 -0700 Donald Schepens  wrote:
> >Its certainly become a growing issue.  I understand that the American
> >Marines have taken it as there biggest challenge and where they believe the
> >next "troubles" will exist.  1 CMBG will actually be going through a major
> >MOUT in the old CFB Edmonton Grisblach site in the spring.
> >
> >Don
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Geoff Tyrell 
> >To: 
> >Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
> >Subject: FIBUA
> >
> >
> >> With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare training
> >> seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.  But
> >> Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for
> >you
> >> Yanks.  Any info?
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________________
> >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> >> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> >> message body.
> >
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> >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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> >message body.
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE Budweiser E-mail account at  http://budweiser.com 
> Budweiser E-Mail must be used responsibly and only is for consumers 21 years of age and older!
>
>
>
> Disclaimer: Neither Anheuser-Busch, Inc. the makers of BUDWEISER beer nor the operator of this E-Mail service or their respective affiliates have seen, endorsed or approved any of the content in this e-mail and expressly disclaim all liability for the content in whole and in part.
> --------------------------------------------------------
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--------------6D363C86A8CD9DF596ED2673
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:50:24 -0500*
--------------C68A35328B9BE59CF99FD0CA
Well I had to finish the paper in a hurry : and I received some really
excellent infos  Thanx Capt. O‘Leary 
unfortunately, Word will NEVER NEVER again correct my paper  The damn thing
changed words for french words and vice versa  , right now the paper is
on review because the teacher considered the TA score to be very low, compared
to the rest of my work :.
Anyway, I can give you a brief insight.
Paper for Comparative Politics
Number are just approximation  I received the latest  on The Canadian Forces a
day too late 
My theory was that Canada and Australia has a similar history  British Empire,
each in an important hemisphere for the British empire......  But Australia has
more aggressive military policies, has a bigger force per capita and
spend more money on the military compared to us  country -  similar 
My theory was that Aussies are more aggressive and spend more money because of
their Isolation has an island
and the lack of real powerful allied. The Kiwis can be near but :.
Also the instability of the area with Indonesia, the Philippines and new
threats, changed the Aussie Military policies to a more aggressive one, and
increased their military spending for the protection of their interest in
Oceania.
Australia has 7 686 850 km2, a population of 19 169 850 peoples, his military
expenditure for the year 98/99 was 6.9 Billions US dollars meaning 1.9 of the
GDP.3 His military strength including the three branches of the military Army,
Navy and Air force plus the civil employees constituted a force of 94 641 in
the year 2000.
5 percent of the population work directly for the Department of Defense. The
Australian government spend an average of 364 US$ per citizen on the military.
1999-200
Australia
Personnel Regular:
Army: 24 072  Navy: 12 901  Air Force: 14 045
Total regular forces: 51 618
Personnel Reserve:
Army: 23 455  Navy: 1 803  Air Force: 2 042
Total Reserve:  27 300
Total Civilian:  16 323
Complete Total:  94 641
Compared to in 1973,where the strength of the
Navy: 16 195, Army: 31 466 Air Force 21 469, total force strength: 69 130
1.9 of the GNP, and 1.9 Billions dollar. In 25 years a decrease of 23  was
effectuated under the Australian military.
Of the constituted a force of 94 641 in the year 2000.
5 percent of the population work directly for the Department of Defense. The
Australian government spend an average of 364 US$ per citizen on the military
GNP, and 1.9 Billions dollar. In 25 years a decrease of 23  was effectuated
under the Australian military. Australian military decreased by 25 in 25 years
compared to us
that decreased of that same number in only 10 years.
Number prove that I was right, but too bad for me : the ADF published three
days after the thesis due
their new military policies, anyway even if I had used them it wouldn‘t change a
thing.
Canada
, his military expenditure is 7.4 Billions US$
For 1.2 of the GDP. The population of Canada is 31 281 092. Only 0.03 of the
population work for the Canadian Department of National Defense. Government
spend an average on military per capita of 238 US $
etc. etc. etc. etc.........
Number compared
Country:               Australia          Canada
 of the GDP:         1.9               1.2
$ per capita:              364                 238
Population:           19169083      31281092
Total Strength:      94 641               -103 000
Budget:               6.9 Billion          7.4 Billions
 employees:           5                   0.03
Budget variation    since 99            since 2000
Effective variation:  -1.2 since 90     -23 since 89
etc etc etc....
Cases compared: Canadian White Paper Policies and British Withdrawal from Asia 
implication for Australia 
I‘ve sent the paper to a friend in the 4thRAR, so he can stop complaining 
"Joan O. Arc" wrote:
> Sorry, but translation required. FIBUA = ? And MOUT, likewise?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joan
>
> PS - JF, thanks for the virus detection. Not that I was rushing to open
> that particular attachment, mind you! : How goes your paper on the Aussie
> Forces?
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Donald Schepens" 
> Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> To: 
> Subject: Re: FIBUA
> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:36:35 -0700
>
> Its certainly become a growing issue.  I understand that the American
> Marines have taken it as there biggest challenge and where they believe the
> next "troubles" will exist.  1 CMBG will actually be going through a major
> MOUT in the old CFB Edmonton Grisblach site in the spring.
>
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Tyrell 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
> Subject: FIBUA
>
>  > With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare
> training
>  > seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.
> But
>  > Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT for
> you
>  > Yanks.  Any info?
>  >
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________________
>  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>  >
>  > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>  > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>  > message body.
>
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--------------C68A35328B9BE59CF99FD0CA--
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Randy Johnston" <randicus@home.com>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:29:43 -0800*
There has been much in the way of comparison between Australia  Canada in
the way of military expenditure. There are some important aspects that need
to be considered.
   Canada
- for all intents and purposes is under the protective umbrella of the US.
Lets face it the US is not going to stand idly by while another country
invades us.
- Canada has no real threat other than the US and with that threat we have
no means to respond other than guerrilla warfare.
    Australia
- Australia has no other country available to aid in there defence.
- They were last attacked in WWII
- They have all of Asia hanging over them looking greedily at all of that
unused land.
Canada maintains a military to play it‘s part in world politics, to allow it
to maintain it‘s sovereignty claims, and because it is expected of a world
power to have an effective standing military. If there were some means by
which Canada could eliminate or drastically reduce the size of it‘s military
and still maintain it‘s place in world politics,
it would be done.
-Snip-
Paper for Comparative Politics
Number are just approximation  I received the latest  on The Canadian
Forces a
day too late 
My theory was that Canada and Australia has a similar history  British
Empire,
each in an important hemisphere for the British empire......  But Australia
has
more aggressive military policies, has a bigger force per capita and
spend more money on the military compared to us  country -  similar 
My theory was that Aussies are more aggressive and spend more money because
of
their Isolation has an island
and the lack of real powerful allied. The Kiwis can be near but :.
Also the instability of the area with Indonesia, the Philippines and new
threats, changed the Aussie Military policies to a more aggressive one, and
increased their military spending for the protection of their interest in
Oceania.
-snip-
There has been 
much in the way
of comparison between Australia amp Canada in the way of military 
expenditure.
There are some important aspects that need to be 
considered.
Canada- for all intents and purposes is under the
protective umbrella of the US. Lets face it the US is not going to stand 
idly by
while another country invades us.- Canada has no real threat other 
than the
US and with that threat we have no means to respond other than guerrilla 
warfare. Australia- 
Australia has
no other country available to aid in there defence.- They were last 
attacked
in WWII- They have all of Asia hanging over them looking greedily at 
all of
that unused land.Canada maintains a military to play it‘s part 
in world
politics, to allow it to maintain it‘s sovereignty claims, and because 
it is
expected of a world power to have an effective standing 
military. If
there were some means by which Canada could eliminate or drastically 
reduce the
size of it‘s military and still maintain it‘s place in world politics,
it would
be done.
-Snip-Paper for Comparative
PoliticsNumber are just approximation  I received the latest  on 
The
Canadian Forces aday too late My theory was that Canada and 
Australia has a similar history  British Empire,each in an 
important
hemisphere for the British empire......  But Australia hasmore 
aggressive
military policies, has a bigger force per capita andspend more money 
on the
military compared to us  country -  similar My theory was that 
Aussies are
more aggressive and spend more money because oftheir Isolation has 
an
islandand the lack of real powerful allied. The Kiwis can be near 
but
:.Also the instability of the area with Indonesia, the 
Philippines and
newthreats, changed the Aussie Military policies to a more 
aggressive one,
andincreased their military spending for the protection of their 
interest
inOceania.-snip-
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:42:32 -0500*
--------------B8BC21893AD47D6802817DEA
 boundary="------------2A9C7BE5CFA7D7D8195003BC"
--------------2A9C7BE5CFA7D7D8195003BC
Well Randy I had to summerized, I can publish the whole paper that date
events back to the 18th century
but Im not sure ya would like a 30 pages email :
>
> There has been much in the way of comparison between Australia 
> Canada in the way of military expenditure. There are some important
> aspects that need to be considered.
>
>    Canada
> - for all intents and purposes is under the protective umbrella of the
> US. Lets face it the US is not going to stand idly by while another
> country invades us.
> - Canada has no real threat other than the US and with that threat we
> have no means to respond other than guerrilla warfare.
>
>     Australia
> - Australia has no other country available to aid in there defence
 Well yes, New Zealand and the US 
> .
> - They were last attacked in WWII  do you considered terrorist
> attack, or even the sinking of the Rainbow warrior 
> - They have all of Asia hanging over them looking greedily at all of
> that unused land.
>
> Canada maintains a military to play it‘s part in world politics, to
> allow it to maintain it‘s sovereignty claims, and because it is
> expected of a world power to have an effective standing military. If
> there were some means by which Canada could eliminate or drastically
> reduce the size of it‘s military and still maintain it‘s place in
> world politics,
>
>                           it would be done.
>
> -Snip-
>
> Paper for Comparative Politics
> Number are just approximation  I received the latest  on The
> Canadian Forces a
> day too late 
>
> My theory was that Canada and Australia has a similar history 
> British Empire,
> each in an important hemisphere for the British empire......  But
> Australia has
> more aggressive military policies, has a bigger force per capita and
> spend more money on the military compared to us  country -  similar 
>
> My theory was that Aussies are more aggressive and spend more money
> because of
> their Isolation has an island
> and the lack of real powerful allied. The Kiwis can be near but :.
> Also the instability of the area with Indonesia, the Philippines and
> new
> threats, changed the Aussie Military policies to a more aggressive
> one, and
> increased their military spending for the protection of their interest
> in
> Oceania.
>
> -snip-
--------------2A9C7BE5CFA7D7D8195003BC
Well Randy I had to summerized, I can publish the whole paper that date
events back to the 18th century
but Im not sure ya would like a 30 pages email :lt
Yes I based myself on the fact that Canada has more closer allied that
the US
I even compared the KM between Aussie closer powerful ally, to us to
the nearest
NATO member,
Randy Johnston wrote:
There has been much
in the way of comparison between Australia amp Canada in the way of military
expenditure. There are some important aspects that need to be considered.
 Canada
- for all intents and purposes is under the protective
umbrella of the US. Lets face it the US is not going to stand idly by while
another country invades us.
- Canada has no real threat other than the US and with
that threat we have no means to respond other than guerrilla warfare.
 Australia
- Australia has no other country available to aid in
there defence
 Well yes, New Zealand and the US 
.
- They were last attacked in WWII  do you considered
terrorist attack, or even the sinking of the Rainbow warrior 
- They have all of Asia hanging over them looking greedily
at all of that unused land.
Canada maintains a military to play it‘s part in world
politics, to allow it to maintain it‘s sovereignty claims, and because
it is expected of a world power to have an effective standing military.
If there were some means by which Canada could eliminate or drastically
reduce the size of it‘s military and still maintain it‘s place in world
politics,
it would be done.
-Snip-
Paper for Comparative Politics
Number are just approximation  I received the latest
 on The Canadian Forces a
day too late 
My theory was that Canada and Australia has a similar
history  British Empire,
each in an important hemisphere for the British empire......
 But Australia has
more aggressive military policies, has a bigger force
per capita and
spend more money on the military compared to us  country
-  similar 
My theory was that Aussies are more aggressive and spend
more money because of
their Isolation has an island
and the lack of real powerful allied. The Kiwis can be
near but :.
Also the instability of the area with Indonesia, the
Philippines and new
threats, changed the Aussie Military policies to a more
aggressive one, and
increased their military spending for the protection
of their interest in
Oceania.
-snip-
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--------------B8BC21893AD47D6802817DEA--
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Geoff Tyrell" <paraprimadonna@hotmail.com>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:17:19 *
sorry.  MOUT = Military Operations in Urban Terrain
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *"Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com>* on *Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:15:31 -0000*
Just what every girl want at Xmas - brand new military jargon to learn by 
heart and use in conversation early and often! 
Thanks John!
- J.
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gow" 
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To: 
Subject: Re: FIBUA
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:31:12 -0500
FIBUA=Fighting in Built Up Areas
MOUT=?
NEWD= Night Exercise without Darkness
Merry Christmas, Joan!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan O. Arc" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: FIBUA
 > Sorry, but translation required. FIBUA = ? And MOUT, likewise?
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 > Joan
 >
 > PS - JF, thanks for the virus detection. Not that I was rushing to open
 > that particular attachment, mind you! : How goes your paper on the
Aussie
 > Forces?
 >
 >
 > ----Original Message Follows----
 > From: "Donald Schepens" 
 > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
 > To: 
 > Subject: Re: FIBUA
 > Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:36:35 -0700
 >
 > Its certainly become a growing issue.  I understand that the American
 > Marines have taken it as there biggest challenge and where they believe
the
 > next "troubles" will exist.  1 CMBG will actually be going through a 
major
 > MOUT in the old CFB Edmonton Grisblach site in the spring.
 >
 > Don
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: Geoff Tyrell 
 > To: 
 > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
 > Subject: FIBUA
 >
 >
 >  > With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare
 > training
 >  > seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.
 > But
 >  > Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT 
for
 > you
 >  > Yanks.  Any info?
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
_________________________________________________________________________
 >  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
 http://www.hotmail.com. 
 >  >
 >  > --------------------------------------------------------
 >  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 >  > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
 >  > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
 >  > message body.
 >
 > --------------------------------------------------------
 > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
 > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
 > message body.
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________________
 > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
 >
 > --------------------------------------------------------
 > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
 > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
 > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
 > message body.
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## army (22 Sep 2002)

Posted by *Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca>* on *Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:17:41 -0500*
--------------DDACBF62646142D006C81D10
LOL you know there a site for dedicated to Canadian military jargon :
"Joan O. Arc" wrote:
> Just what every girl want at Xmas - brand new military jargon to learn by
> heart and use in conversation early and often! 
>
> Thanks John!
>
> - J.
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Gow" 
> Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> To: 
> Subject: Re: FIBUA
> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:31:12 -0500
>
> FIBUA=Fighting in Built Up Areas
>
> MOUT=?
>
> NEWD= Night Exercise without Darkness
>
> Merry Christmas, Joan!
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joan O. Arc" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 3:20 AM
> Subject: Re: FIBUA
>
>  > Sorry, but translation required. FIBUA = ? And MOUT, likewise?
>  >
>  > Cheers,
>  >
>  > Joan
>  >
>  > PS - JF, thanks for the virus detection. Not that I was rushing to open
>  > that particular attachment, mind you! : How goes your paper on the
> Aussie
>  > Forces?
>  >
>  >
>  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > From: "Donald Schepens" 
>  > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>  > To: 
>  > Subject: Re: FIBUA
>  > Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:36:35 -0700
>  >
>  > Its certainly become a growing issue.  I understand that the American
>  > Marines have taken it as there biggest challenge and where they believe
> the
>  > next "troubles" will exist.  1 CMBG will actually be going through a
> major
>  > MOUT in the old CFB Edmonton Grisblach site in the spring.
>  >
>  > Don
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: Geoff Tyrell 
>  > To: 
>  > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:49 AM
>  > Subject: FIBUA
>  >
>  >
>  >  > With the growing trend towards global urbanization, urban warfare
>  > training
>  >  > seems like it should be a major doctrinal issue in every modern army.
>  > But
>  >  > Ive heard naught about the Canadian Forces‘ view on FIBUA or MOUT
> for
>  > you
>  >  > Yanks.  Any info?
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
> _________________________________________________________________________
>  >  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>  >  >
>  >  > --------------------------------------------------------
>  >  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  >  > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>  >  > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>  >  > message body.
>  >
>  > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
>  > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
>  > message body.
>  >
>  > _________________________________________________________________________
>  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com. 
>  >
>  > --------------------------------------------------------
>  > NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>  > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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>
> _________________________________________________________________________
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>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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--------------DDACBF62646142D006C81D10
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