# Medals



## Radop (30 Oct 2005)

Do we get the recognition from the Government for the service we provide?

I ask this question in the light of a discussion a few of us had with Queen's Jubilee, General Campain Star and GSM.  It seams that the Gov is trying to give us a one stop shop for the medals we will receive.  For the Queen's Jubilee, it should have been given to all members serving at the time (same as with the Cnd 125 and other medals of that nature).

What is everyone's openion?


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## Bintheredunthat (31 Oct 2005)

Arrrrgh...........

I was just thinking about the Jubilee the other day - and I got mad.  Now that you've brought it up, guess I'll have my say.

A waste.  Plain and simple.  "Oh wow - what did you get that medal for?"  "I got it because I wear a uniform and my name was picked out of a hat."  No offence to anyone who got it - but when it came out where I was, the hat was pulling out some real doozies for names.  Yuck.

As for the CPSM - don't like that one either.  A medal for getting a medal??  Come on.  Think we may be trying to fit in with "other" countries who over stack the uniforms of their service members.

See if that sparks any replies.

Bin


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## Radop (1 Nov 2005)

CPSM is not only for service in a peacekeeping/peacemaking role but also for those who do not qualify for a medal on other missions that are less than 90 days.  Several of my friends went on TAVs and did not qualify for the medal but got the CPSM for svc over 30 days but less than 90 (Eritria being the big one).  Looks funny though with someone having only the CPSM.  Further to that, you had to have deployed!  Recognition from the nation (which a UN medal is not) is what that medal is for.  It expresses the nations respect for those soldiers who put themselves in harms way so as to try to make this country safer.  So I disagree with you on that one.

People say similar thing about the CD but 12 yrs of service is nothing to be ashamed about.  A medal is recognition for that service.  I think that the medal such as the 125 especially, should be given out to all service members who were in during that time.  It was a monumental time for our history as a nation and the military paraded and organized celebrations to recognize that.  A medal for something like that is another way of showing thanks for our service to our country.  How many times have you deployed inside Canada to assist Canadians?  I have 3 major deployments (more than 30 days) and some minor ones (less than 30 days).  What do we have as a thanks to that?  

I don't want to look like the Americans but the Brits do a lot more for there soldiers by showing their appreciation for service for the country.  Were you aware that the NDP (McDunough) had put forth a private members bill to have a Cdn Bar on the SSM to recognize the contributions that Cnd soldiers have done in this country.  It unanimously passed on first reading but was dropped because the Liberals called the last election.


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## geo (1 Nov 2005)

Radop... the 125th & the 100th were not EBGOs ... not everybody got one
each unit would get an allocation. The CO & the RSM usually got the 1st two out of the box & the remainder would be allocated by them to deserving members who might not be entitled to any decoration but sorely in need of an "atta boy" recognition for services to the Regiment.


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## Radop (4 Nov 2005)

Thanks Geo,

Reread my original post and saw how you misread what I wrote.  I was saying it should be issued to all pers serving at that time.  I looked at my medals the other day and didn't notice the 125 there even though I was PMC of two different Messes and helped in organizing 3 events to celibrate the event.  I was a reservist at the time and didn't even know there was a medal for it until New Years leve when a friend of mine from another unit was wearing the medal.  I felt slighted for myself and my executive as we did a lot of work for the event and none of us received any recognition (not even a letter of appreciation).


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## geo (4 Nov 2005)

a lot of us do an awful lot of things .... and don't get much recognition if anything.

about 1 1/2 yrs ago, there was a Bde Comd that was moving on and decided to hand out some big honking "coin" to all COs, RSMs and a bunch of other followers.
Once the procession had been done... everyone in the room had one... xcept little ole me. 
Didn't bother me all that much - though it reinforced my opinion of the jerk but, 
 had about a Dozen COs & RSMs come by - wondering what the H was that all about.

My friends - all the better for having em!

Cheers!


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Nov 2005)

We have a large mural hanging in the armouries that dates back to WWII. It's of the Union Jack, but could well be the Maple Leaf. Under it are the following words:

What if the best our wages be,
An empty sleeve, a stiff set knee,
A crutch for the rest of life. Who cares!
So long as one flag floats and dares.

I suppose the same could be said for our medals. Some are earned, some are gimmes. No soldier should feel ashamed of any that he is presented or awarded with, unless it was gained dishonestly. Most often the stigma attached to gimmes is brought on by the green monster of envy by the people that did not receive it. I say, Who cares! I don't have any gimmes, but I don't begrudge anybody else getting one. It's the quiet pride I feel when wearing the ones I have that does it for me.


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## Radop (5 Nov 2005)

Well said Recceguy.  I have 3 medals (waiting for my 4th) for tours, CD and CPSM.  I am proud of my medals but what really irks me is someone talking like they have untold experience and you see them on pde with the 125, Queen's Jubillee and CD.  I was told by a MO that everyone wants to deploy overseas like us (her and myself) while she was wearing the above medals.  That bothers me.


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## JSilver (5 Nov 2005)

I agree with you on the 125th and Queen's Jubilee medal in that everyone that was serving at the time does deserve them. I was one of the lucky ones to receive the Queen's Jubilee medal, so I may be biased.


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## JimmyPeeOn (6 Nov 2005)

I don't know if we should really be concerned about the # of medals we have or are going to have.   As long as we know we earned what we have.   Granted it is a bit of a rip off when they blanket every operation under the same award.  For us youngertroops who are looking forward to another 4-5 rotations into Afghanistan, having the same medal without so much as supernumeration will be a kicker.  Hell, I'm a Pte with 2 deployments, the GCS and the SWASM on its way.  But the way it looks from this trench is thats going to be about it until I recieve a CD.

Agreed about the 125, but from the looks of the crew that recieved the Jubilee @ the Regt.  Let 'em have that one, I'd rather not be associated with that type of soldier. For the most part anyways.

Cheers to 2 beers;
Andrew


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## Radop (17 Nov 2005)

How many times have you been talked to by Officers with only a CD that tell of the commitment "we" are making to our country?  Or Med O telling you that you could not do your job because you are injured (yet you have deployed 3 times with the same injury and did fine!).  Bitter perhaps but still the # of medals is important to a lot of people.  A lot of the people who got the Queen's Jubilee were pers who were long term members of thier rank.  We started calling it the incompatant medal up in Pet for some of the people who got it were in rank for 10 or more years (Cpl and above).  My peers who got it had a combined total of 25 yrs in rank.  I have yet to be in a rank more than 5 yrs (and counting as it is my current rank).  We have done missions on large scale in Canada that puts us in harms way either by weather or location.  Producing 60 000 medals is a small price to pay to give recognition to serving members.


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## buzgo (17 Nov 2005)

Radop said:
			
		

> How many times have you been talked to by Officers with only a CD that tell of the commitment "we" are making to our country?   Or Med O telling you that you could not do your job because you are injured (yet you have deployed 3 times with the same injury and did fine!).   Bitter perhaps but still the # of medals is important to a lot of people.   A lot of the people who got the Queen's Jubilee were pers who were long term members of thier rank.   We started calling it the incompatant medal up in Pet for some of the people who got it were in rank for 10 or more years (Cpl and above).   My peers who got it had a combined total of 25 yrs in rank.   I have yet to be in a rank more than 5 yrs (and counting as it is my current rank).   We have done missions on large scale in Canada that puts us in harms way either by weather or location.   Producing 60 000 medals is a small price to pay to give recognition to serving members.



Hey! I remember all the people who got it in Pet. Aren't they all a bit 'toolish'? 

I agree with you 100%, everyone should have rx the Jubilee medal. The UK military did it that way and so should we have...


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## Radop (21 Nov 2005)

I actually feel slighted, more for my entertainment chair than myself, that the 125 was not awarded for participation in the celebrations.  She worked with me on all three events, getting sponcers, acquiring facilities and organizing with other agencies to make successful events.


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## Navalsnpr (21 Nov 2005)

My two cents is that all personnel who were "Active" members within the Canadian Forces or RCMP when the Commemorative Medals were issued should be entitled to wear them. There are four to date:

Canadian Centennial Medal  
Queen Elizabeth II Silver Jubilee Medal  
125th Anniversary of the Confederation of Canada Medal  
Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal  

Ironically, the UK went through the same hassle that we did regarding the Golden Jubilee Medal. For them, the Chiefs of their Defence Staffs stood their ground and stated that either everyone gets these medals or no one..... the result was everyone got the medal.


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## Padraig OCinnead (22 Dec 2005)

If you joined because you needed recognition from some faceless entity, then RadOp, maybe you should have joined some other profession. It is not too late. The pay, bells and baubles have never been the point of it all. That is what the more shallow careers are for. It's what you brought home within you from a job well done. It comes from the personal satisfaction from volunteering to sacrifice your wellbeing for hardship and living in squalid conditions. You've spent time away from your comfy home and family to go do your bit for some other family.
I'm on my sixth deployment right now and never once have I looked in the mirror when I put my DEU's and thought as I looked at the rack and thought to myself. Those are what it was about. You can never get as high a recognition as your own approval and that of your fellow soldiers.

Slainte,


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## Franko (22 Dec 2005)

On a personal note when I see troops...most notably CIC...with those particular medals (less the CD) on their chest I start to chuckle.

The medals I see the most are the Golden Jubilee and the 125...which means absolutly nothing. They were doled out by a system of complete chaos. I think it was a dart board with names actually....just throw the dart and the name that gets pined wins.

No sweat was shed nor blood for those.....

Just trinkets in my eyes....

The ones that count are the one's where the member was deployed away from home for months on end.

My $0.02 worth.

Regards


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## geo (22 Dec 2005)

(hence the term "decoration")

Cheers!


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## Radop (28 Dec 2005)

Padraig OCinnead said:
			
		

> If you joined because you needed recognition from some faceless entity, then RadOp, maybe you should have joined some other profession. It is not too late. The pay, bells and baubles have never been the point of it all.
> 
> Slainte,



Since you have two more years in than I do in this trade I should feel slighted but I don't.  You say a lot of good things and I have just returned from my fourth tour.  As a MCpl, you know that you should acknowledge a job well done by one of your soldiers.  We are pulled from our families quite frequently for domestic operations, exercises, courses, and of course for tours.  Are you telling me that it doesn't bother you when a CO stands up in front of you telling you that we have all made sacrifices and then notice that he only has a CD on his chest and you are not thinking "what sacrifices did he make"?  I have yet to hear anyone say that.

I see that you were in Rwanda.  I talk to the Cnd public about Rwanda and most don't even know we sent soldiers there.  This bothers me as I thought we did a good job in helping rebuild that country.  I am proud of each and every tour that I have been on.  Even the Golan had its problems (although it is definitely more a club med than the conditions in Afghanistan) but I look at my medals and feel pride because I earned them.  The 125 and GJ would be a nice recoginition from the government that sent us, not a faceless entity.

As for getting out, I have done well with this trade and expect to continue to do well.  I will listen to anyones opinion and give advice as best I can.  I try not to insult or abuse my position or my voice.  I expect the same in return.  Please do not get personal.  You disagree with me that is fine.  As you can see from the responses, there are a lot of people who feel the same as I do.  I got in and stay in to deploy.  The medals are the ticks on my uniform to indicate what I have done.  I served twelve years, I earned that CD.  I went on a peacekeeping mission and earned the right to wear the CPSM.  I would not feel right wearing the GJ right now as it is not given to everyone.  I just think it is recognition and YES, I do feel recognition is important.  I am sure you read your PERs and that is recognition of your performance.  Why not on your uniform?

Anyways, PM me on when you were in Rwanda and were.


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## Patrolman (29 Dec 2005)

This is a good topic. I remember the day that the Jubilie medal was handed out on parade. Our Batt. always had the light duties form up on the side of the parade so they would not have to do drill. Anyways I looked at this group of people thinking that was who they were. As it turned out it was the group chosen from our unit to recieve the medal. People were dumbfouned as to how these people were chosen. What a frustrating day.

  On another point. My old CO used to say and I agree with him wholeheartedly. A soldier wears his resume on his chest.

 Question? What do you think of people who are upset they didn't recieve these medals and purchase them and have them awarded to themselves by a notary of the public.ie Mayors,MLA's,MP's


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## Gunner (29 Dec 2005)

> The medals I see the most are the Golden Jubilee and the 125...which means absolutly nothing. They were doled out by a system of complete chaos. I think it was a dart board with names actually....just throw the dart and the name that gets pined wins.



The QGJM was distributed proportionally among all the ranks within the CF and the only criteria was length of service.  Recognizing how dissatisfied everyone was with how the Canada 125 medal was issues, the CF  tried to increase the number allocated to it in order to conduct a general issuance to all members or to those with at least 5 years of service (similar to the UK and other commonwealth countires).  Unfortunately this was turned down even thought the CF offered to use its own funds to purchase additional copies.  Its a commemorative medal and military people who wear it, wear it on behalf of all of us (or so the party line went....).

Having said all this, remember that many civilians received the medal as well for outstanding achievement in business, academia or community involvement and are worthy of respect.


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## Roy Harding (29 Dec 2005)

I joined in '82.  It was rare to see anything besides a CD and a Cyprus gong.

In '88 I went to Iran and received the UNIIMOG medal.

In '90 I was promoted to Sgt and posted to an Air Force outfit.  Whilst there, the base decided that they were going to ensure that all servicemen on the base had the correct ribbon bars for their uniforms.  (I don't know what prompted this, perhaps the Base CWO had a bee in his bonnet).

Anyway, as CC of the unit, I dutifully sent a list of all our members, and their appropriate Medals/Decorations.  There were a lot of CDs, not many Cyprus medals, a few MBs (SAR Techs), and little ole me with "UNIIMOG" beside his name.

A few weeks later I received a copy of my original list, accompanied by the appropriate ribbon bars - all present and accounted for - except MINE!!  I checked the photocopied list and saw that my rank (Sgt) had been circled and someone had written "Sgt - No CD??" and the title "UNIIMOG" circled, followed by three question marks "???"

I eventually straightened it all out - yes indeed, I was a Sgt, yes indeed I did only have 8 years in, therefore no CD, yes indeed, there was such a mission as "UNIIMOG".  I laugh now, but it ticked me off at the time.

Interestingly enough, about 1 month after qualifying for the CD I was charged (different unit by then), and had the charge happened a month earlier I would never have received the CD, as I was charged a few years later as well.  (To quote The Shawshank Redemption - "I didn't do it.  Lawyer f**ked me!"  Anyway - different story).

In the ten years I served AFTER receiving my CD, I earned UNPROFOR, SFOR(3), SWASM w/Afghanistan Bar, and the CinC Unit Commendation (OK - I didn't earn it personally, my unit did).  I was also (naturally) awarded the CFPSM, which I consider my only "gimme" - although I've heard arguments refuting that status.

It's interesting to note that in the first twelve years of my career, I was on two missions (back to back in UNIIMOG), and in the last ten I was on five.

The pace has certainly picked up - to quote a favourite songwriter of mine "The times, they are a changin"

And for the record - I did it because it was what I wanted to do - it was exciting, it was patriotic, it was what I was paid to do.  It was NEVER for the "bling, bling", and it CERTAINLY was never for the money (which in the first few missions was negligible anyway).

FWIW


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## PPCLI MCpl (29 Dec 2005)

Franko said:
			
		

> The medals I see the most are the Golden Jubilee and the 125...which means absolutly nothing. They were doled out by a system of complete chaos. I think it was a dart board with names actually....just throw the dart and the name that gets pined wins.



I, along with 5 other CF members, was awarded the QGJM by my Member of Parliament.  She was alloted a certain amount to distribute to her riding, and chose to award it to the 5 of us who served on Op Apollo.  I consider receiving this medal from my hometown a great honor, and I'm dismayed at how many people wish to diminish it's value.  I agree that the process involved in awarding the medal was not perfect, but not all the recipients are undeserving.

By the way, if it were up to me, I would have awarded it to all serving members.


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## Radop (3 Jan 2006)

PPCLI MCpl said:
			
		

> I, along with 5 other CF members, was awarded the QGJM by my Member of Parliament.  She was alloted a certain amount to distribute to her riding, and chose to award it to the 5 of us who served on Op Apollo.  I consider receiving this medal from my hometown a great honor, and I'm dismayed at how many people wish to diminish it's value.  I agree that the process involved in awarding the medal was not perfect, but not all the recipients are undeserving.



Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the medal or diminish its value.  I love to hear stories like this from soldiers as this was a member of parliment that though that military members from her riding deserved the medal.  I salute   her and wished this happened more frequently.  I also seen some people who got it that deserved it.  One of the guys at the regiment had 9 tours and was awarded the QGJM.  I thought he deserved it for a job well done and for showing the committment to his country.  Unfortunately, most of the people who got them were not the best of soldiers and were often in the rank a long time due to incompetance.  This is were the problems arise.

As for the earlier discussion about purchasing the medal and having it awarded to you, you have to live with yourself don't you.  I would never do that but all the power to you if you can.   I also like the resume on his chest statement.  As I said in another forum, I told a lot of people that the money we were getting in Afghanistan was not worth it if we came home in a pine box.  Yet, people still want to go there for the money.  They turn down other tours so they can go on the one that will make them money.  I am a soldier and as such, I will go were and when I am told to go somewhere.  I took Senegal thinking that we would only receive 1 and 1 for hardship and risk.  I was plesantly suprised when we received quite a bit higher.  The money is nice but it is not why I do it.  I feel it is my job and by turning a tour down, you should be released unless it is for a good reason  ie. family member is seriously ill.


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## Michael Dorosh (3 Jan 2006)

PPCLI MCpl said:
			
		

> I agree that the process involved in awarding the medal was not perfect, but not all the recipients are undeserving.



Hear, hear.  I just found out one of my oldest friends got the Alberta Centennial Medal; I was proud for him.  He's never served outside Canada, and neither did myself or one of the fellows (and one of the officers) in my unit that got the Centennial Medal, but I would argue that those two have contributed plenty to the CF and to the regiment.  They were good choices; there was much controversy over the other medals mentioned (jubilee, 125).  One of our allotment went to a retired CO who stopped going to mess dinners 20 years ago; but then again, we don't know what service he provided as a member of the regimental senate.

Some of those "light duties" people may have been in the same boat - a lot of service sometimes goes unrewarded.  And sometimes medals go to undeserving troops too, naturally.  I was happy to see the commemoratives go to decent people this time around.  In addition to those that never served overseas, one of our WOs who has paraded faithfully day in day out for 20 years but "only" served on exercise in Norway received one too.  His service goes beyond just showing up regularly; he's always there for the new troops, volunteers for the cadet corps regularly, gives up his summer vacation every year to organize regimental support to the Stampede, etc.

I don't think there will ever be a perfect "system", just faith that regimental allotments will go to deserving soldiers.  Seeing who got ours, I guess it colours the way I look at everyone who got one.

Of course, a retired senior NCM who retired from the forces whom I considered quite useless showed up on the Net wearing a jubilee medal awarded civvieside, so...

Franko, what about the MMM or OMM?  Is there any lustre in those?


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## Radop (4 Jan 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Of course, a retired senior NCM who retired from the forces whom I considered quite useless showed up on the Net wearing a jubilee medal awarded civvieside, so...
> 
> Franko, what about the MMM or OMM?  Is there any lustre in those?



Most people that mentioned the walking wounded were regular force members.  These pers are easier to track as to what they do after work as it affects their PER and is in their best intrest to put it in their brag sheet (rightly or wrongly, that is a whole different string to start).  The ones they have mentioned, the ones I know about at least, were career scam artists.  Everyone is then tarnished with the same brush which is unfortunate.

As for the MMM and OMM, they are generally given to pers who have displayed a lifetime of achievement both in the military and upon civilian life.  You have to do something beyound your normal work but may be over many decades.  Getting to CWO would be a starter for career work but may not be enough to get the MMM.  You also have to be able to justify it to the committee that awards the medal.  That is easier said than done.  Those medals are earned but you as a rank and file member may not be able to see the "BIG" contribution that the member has made.


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