# Disresectful member of the US Forces.



## X Royal (4 Jan 2014)

As a former serving member of the Canadian Forces I'm completely discussed.
Just finished watching the opening of the LA / Vancouver NHL game.
During the Canadian national anthem the member of the US Forces standing beside the singer of the anthem was standing at at ease but when the US National anthem was sung he came to attention and saluted.
Complete disrespect period.


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## Transporter (4 Jan 2014)

Anything "non-American" can be extremely confusing for 90% of Americans.


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## bradley247 (4 Jan 2014)

I'm guessing there was a bit more ignorance involved than disrespect.


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## daftandbarmy (4 Jan 2014)

X Royal said:
			
		

> As a former serving member of the Canadian Forces I'm completely discussed.
> Just finished watching the opening of the LA / Vancouver NHL game.
> During the Canadian national anthem the member of the US Forces standing beside the singer of the anthem was standing at at ease but when the US National anthem was sung he came to attention and saluted.
> Complete disrespect period.



EBS? (Estimated bra size) ;D


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## Towards_the_gap (4 Jan 2014)

Here's the teapot to put that tempest into.


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## X Royal (4 Jan 2014)

Lets not make simple excesses for it.
Pure disrespect if not by the member than in his training system.


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## Lightguns (5 Jan 2014)

Bah, not untypical, he likely was not told by his CoC.  They not a very independent thinking bunch on stuff like this. Besides 99% of viewers did not notice.


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## X Royal (5 Jan 2014)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> Besides 99% of viewers did not notice.


It was a CBC broadcast so I hope more than 1% would notice but I could be wrong.
For those making excuses for this would you show a subordinate the same leeway if the situation occurred with them?
I hope not.


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## dimsum (5 Jan 2014)

Who's to say that his CoC didn't correct him afterwards?  If he forgot/wasn't told/whatever in front of the camera, it'd be worse to correct him right there.


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## daftandbarmy (5 Jan 2014)

There was another incident in 1992. 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/flag-flap/article12901837/

I'm thinking that it's not a habit of the US military to do stuff like that.


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## EME Hopeful (5 Jan 2014)

I was wondering how long it would take for the World Series flag incident to be mentioned


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## Infanteer (5 Jan 2014)

X Royal said:
			
		

> As a former serving member of the Canadian Forces I'm completely discussed.
> Just finished watching the opening of the LA / Vancouver NHL game.
> During the Canadian national anthem the member of the US Forces standing beside the singer of the anthem was standing at at ease but when the US National anthem was sung he came to attention and saluted.
> Complete disrespect period.



I was at a Remembrance Day Ceremony in Ma'sum Ghar years ago and the American contingent never saluted our anthem.  I don't know their regulations, but I don't think they are sticklers for officially paying respects to foreign anthems like we are.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Jan 2014)

I have to admit that this is much ado about nothing............."disrespectful" means a lot more to me than this.
Just my opinion, of course.


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## Journeyman (5 Jan 2014)

anic:

Grrr....autocorrect.  That was supposed to be   :boring:


a)  the world still turns
b)  this gives us _one more thing_ to pat ourselves on the back about, vis-a-vis our self-proclaimed superiority over the US
c)  once I completely finish sorting out my own troops, _then_ I'll start on another country's soldiers.


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## Ludoc (5 Jan 2014)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> c)  once I completely finish sorting out my own troops, _then_ I'll start on another country's soldiers.



So, sometime next week then, eh?


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## Lightguns (5 Jan 2014)

X Royal said:
			
		

> It was a CBC broadcast so I hope more than 1% would notice but I could be wrong.
> For those making excuses for this would you show a subordinate the same leeway if the situation occurred with them?
> I hope not.



Ever been to a game?  They're chewing gum, drinking beer, playing with iPhones and all the while 
O Canada is playing. 

Edit: if Canada disappeared from the planet it would be 3 days before the majority of Canadians noticed. All Canadians would notice when they did not get their next government entitlement cheque (EI, GST, etc).


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## X Royal (5 Jan 2014)

Lightguns said:
			
		

> All Canadians would notice when they did not get their next government entitlement cheque (EI, GST, etc).


Can you explain to me how EI is a government entitlement?
Last I knew it's not funded by the government at all. 
Employees and employers fund it. Actually the government has been siphoning money out of the EI system for years.


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## Lightguns (5 Jan 2014)

Let's leave there. We are off topic.


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## Scott (5 Jan 2014)

So much butthurt, so few posts...


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## Lightguns (5 Jan 2014)

I have opened EI topic should you wish to discuss. I am interested in discussing it. There is much wrong with it.


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## 2ndChoiceName (5 Jan 2014)

Question, are we required to salute or merely stand at attention when other countries' nation anthems are playing?


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## dangerboy (5 Jan 2014)

10. Anthems.    When the Royal Anthem, Vice Regal Anthem, National Anthem (see A-AD-200-000/AG-000) or the national anthem of a foreign country is played, all shall stand and: 

	a. All ranks who are not part of a formed military group shall salute. The salute shall commence with the playing of the first note of music and shall be cut away at the end of the last note. 

	b. Formed military groups shall be called to attention and all officers or the person in charge shall salute; formed military groups bearing arms shall present arms. 

	c. On defence establishments, all vehicles within hearing distance shall be stopped and the occupants shall dismount and pay compliments.


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## 2ndChoiceName (5 Jan 2014)

Simple enough, I think I can remember that.


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## Edward Campbell (5 Jan 2014)

2ndChoiceName said:
			
		

> Simple enough, I think I can remember that.




It is, indeed, simple enough. And the rule applies, pretty much, to any military force anywhere in the world.

I have, while still serving, charged more than one CF member for failing to salute at the appropriate time ~ but never for failing to salute me. I have "jacked up" CF members after I retired for similar things - like not saluting when passing the National War Memorial in downtown Ottawa.

What was reported in the opening post of this thread was, simply, a matter of poor discipline which, as Journeyman noted, is not confined to the US Army ~ there is plenty of it here, in the CF.

Discipline is the _sine qua non_ of a military force; it is discipline, imposed, first, on young soldiers and officers, and then given by example, which allows tough, well trained, adequately equipped men and women to fight and win when the odds are against them. What passes for bravery is, very often, just good discipline ... but I shouldn't say "just good discipline," there is no such thing as "just good discipline." Good discipline is there by design; it is a function of leadership. When a soldier, like the young American at the hockey game, fails to do what he should, must have been taught is the right and proper thing, the required thing to do then we can guess that he may be stupid or his training may have been deficient or, just as likely, he may be poorly disciplined which means poorly led. When Canadian soldiers fail in such things, as they do, that is the conclusion I usually draw about them: poor leadership.


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## dangerboy (5 Jan 2014)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKTOUkroU0


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## CombatDoc (5 Jan 2014)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKTOUkroU0


Dangerboy, where do you find this stuff?  I'm a movie buff and have never even heard of "Guns at Batasi"!


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## SeaKingTacco (5 Jan 2014)

I was recently alongside at a major US Naval Base.  Not only did they play the Star-Spangled Banner over base wide loud speakers at colours, they also played O Canada.  Thousands, if not Tens of thousands of US Sailors dutifully saluted our national anthem.
It happens.


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## little jim (5 Jan 2014)

Having lived this as an OUTCAN for the past three years, the US Army is required to salute (what we might call pay compliments) "When the United States National Anthem, "To the Color," "Hail to the Chief," or foreign national anthems are played."

I will guess it is pure ignorance, and not malice, that this soldier didn't salute.  As mentioned above a take-away from this is that if nobody corrected him then that is the new standard. 

Edited for relevance.


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## 2ndChoiceName (5 Jan 2014)

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKTOUkroU0



That clip reminds me of a story I heard about Chesty Puller. From wikipedia: 



> Puller is loved by enlisted U.S. Marines for his constant actions to improve their working conditions. Puller insisted upon good equipment and discipline; once he came upon a second lieutenant who had ordered an enlisted man to salute him 100 times for missing a salute. Puller told the lieutenant, "You were absolutely correct in making him salute you 100 times lieutenant, but you know that an officer must return every salute he receives. Now return them all, and I will keep count."


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## OldSolduer (5 Jan 2014)

CombatDoc said:
			
		

> Dangerboy, where do you find this stuff?  I'm a movie buff and have never even heard of "Guns at Batasi"!



You don't know Dangerboy like I do.......I'm not surprised by this.


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## daftandbarmy (6 Jan 2014)

I kind of liked this fly past:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGneffJ48k


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## pbi (8 Jan 2014)

Having served alongside the US forces a couple of times, and lived there for a while (well south of the border...), I'd say that the soldier simply didn't know any better, or wasn't specifically instructed. Particularly at lower levels, they can be a bit initiative-challenged, and 95% of Americans probably wouldn't recognize O Canada if it jumped up and bit them. Can you recognize the Mexican national anthem?

In my experience, they are very rarely intentionally disrespectful of an allied country's flag, or anything else, once they know what it is and how they are to act towards it.


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## X Royal (8 Jan 2014)

pbi I can't believe that's the case in this situation in respect to knowing it was the Canadian anthem.
He was standing on the ice right beside the singer and it was announced it was the singing of the national anthems.
Lack of training and leadership I suspect was the reason for the lack of respect, instead of deliberate intention to insult.


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## Loachman (8 Jan 2014)

I've always found that they go out of their way to ensure that proper protocol and manners are followed.


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## Bird_Gunner45 (8 Jan 2014)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> I kind of liked this fly past:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGneffJ48k



That's a good video, but I made the mistake of reading the comments... now I have to go and bash my head into a wall for 30 minutes to try and knock the stupid out


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## bigcletus (9 Jan 2014)

What's the back story on the Kiowa salute ??


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## bick (9 Jan 2014)

Might have happened more then once, but this happened on TF 1-08 to C Coy 2 PPCLI in Zhari. I have a copy of the certificate the 101st Kiowa guys gave us, shows a Kiowa flying over some LAVs. They liked flying for us, we gave them lots of work


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## OldSolduer (9 Jan 2014)

Rhodesian said:
			
		

> Might have happened more then once, but this happened on TF 1-08 to C Coy 2 PPCLI in Zhari. I have a copy of the certificate the 101st Kiowa guys gave us, shows a Kiowa flying over some LAVs. They liked flying for us, we gave them lots of work



Mike was in Charlie Coy and I have some pics of the Kiowa.


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