# Hk21A1 - the SAW with some class...



## KevinB (3 Feb 2008)

Recently BigRed went on leave and left me a new toy to play with.

 I had seen the mythical beast previous - having gotten a short fam fire with it in the early 90's at Connaught, and had seen the Greek Cypriot SF with its younger brother the Hk23 while in Cyprus.

  Whats not to like about a closed bolt, belt fed 7.62 gun?  Its not GPMG - but it does have a QCB - and there is a LW (and Short) Para barrel for it - and currently negotiating for one.  Its about 16lbs -- so about 4lbs less than my carbine  

















I am awaiting Aimpoints new machine gun optic - the T-1 Micro on the Matech BIS base which will give you adjustment out to 600m - as while the Short Dot is an excellent tool - I have one on my carbine -- and for most urban usage of this gun as a dismount support weapon the smaller (and lighter) CCO will be advantageous.

Magpul is currently working a stock for this one (several SOF units like its unique abilties - so its not just a KevinB niche market   ) -- and I am trying to figure out a ligth mount for it so I can add a vis light.

It takes both the US (NATO) disintegrating link belt - and the german (RPD/PKM like) non disintergrating belt -- I run a short teaser belt in the car (we have M240's that use it as well) and I got a german fixed belt in my buggout bag, plus our 240 ammo bags.


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## Mike Baker (3 Feb 2008)

That is NICE! Mind telling me what type of scope that is, as well as it's power?


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## KevinB (3 Feb 2008)

Schmitt and Bender ShortDot  -- its a 1.1-4x combat variable - Aimpoint and ACOG all in one package 

  the one on the Hk21 is the Gen1 and the one on my recce rifle is a genII (which I prefer)


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## Mike Baker (3 Feb 2008)

Very nice. So this is all part of your job huh? ;D


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## glock17 (4 Feb 2008)

A thing of sheer beauty.  Hope Red gets back soon ;D


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## mudgunner49 (4 Feb 2008)

Everybody needs a friend like BigRed...


blake


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## glock17 (4 Feb 2008)

One question I-6. What is that chunk of metal that looks brazed or welded onto the receiver above the selector?

Looks a little odd, reinforcement?


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## Big Red (4 Feb 2008)

glock17 said:
			
		

> One question I-6. What is that chunk of metal that looks brazed or welded onto the receiver above the selector?
> 
> Looks a little odd, reinforcement?



That's reinforced reciever rails to strengthen the reciever. They are an upgrade to the HK21 due to higher round count guns having thier recievers crack over time.


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## 1feral1 (4 Feb 2008)

Again Defence is blocking these pics for some reason, looks like I'll have to wait until I get home tonight   .


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## glock17 (4 Feb 2008)

Big Red said:
			
		

> That's reinforced reciever rails to strengthen the reciever. They are an upgrade to the HK21 due to higher round count guns having thier recievers crack over time.



I figured so, how long have you had it?   Any signs of inner wear and tear?  

Pretty Brave, leaving that with I-6, he's probably sleeping with it.


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## KevinB (5 Feb 2008)

It was pretty much NIB when he got it -- of course I put about 1500 rds thru it now  ;D





































Its is a sex machine -- you can pretty much get one hole groups at 100m with the Short Dot on it -- and I used it in a number of dismounted contact drills -- and even in auto standing it easily controllable.

   As for sleeping with it -- hell I married it  >


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## mudgunner49 (5 Feb 2008)

Kev,

That is for sure a sweet blaster - and one hard-core looking shooting range!!  No elbow pads or anything - "Nancy's" need not apply...


blake


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## TangoTwoBravo (5 Feb 2008)

Pardon my ignorance, but is it loosely based on the HK G3?  Although that ship has sailed it looks like it would make an interesting section-level weapon.

Nice pics.

Cheers


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## Sig_Des (5 Feb 2008)

Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> As for sleeping with it -- hell I married it  >



In this case, I am a sinner, for I covet thy wife.


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## KevinB (5 Feb 2008)

Its like the son of a G3 and a MG3.

While its not suited to be a GPMG due to the closed bolt operation (it cooks off when run like a GPMG) - it is exceptionally accurate -- and IF you do need to run it like a GPig - then the QCB will allow you to be a lot more effective a lot longer than the fixed barrel (and det mag) guns like the C2.


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## glock17 (5 Feb 2008)

Nice to have that manageable 7.62 punch, and of-course while the cat's away....


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## Eric_911 (5 Feb 2008)

Just out of curiosity, have you tried firing it with a box mag? Like/Dislike?


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## blacktriangle (6 Feb 2008)

I6,

How much (ballpark) does a setup like your "recce rifle" cost? I'm looking to get an AR for training on my own time and don't mind spending as long as its not 10 grand for the thing. 

P.S are EOTechs/Short dots legal in Canada?

Thanks in advance.


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## daftandbarmy (6 Feb 2008)

Wot? No bayonet lug?


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## KevinB (6 Feb 2008)

Talking to buddies in AWG, Delta and DevGrp they recommended not using the box since it pinches closed if you put any pressure on it -- one of the navy guys is trying to dig up some nutsacks for it for us.

My recce was handbuilt by Knigths Armaments - cost for me was quite low  

 EO's and SD's are 100% legal --- SOCOM supply out of Montreal is the Novekse dist --- and they can make a very similar recce rifle  -- no idea on price as I dont pay retail.


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## blacktriangle (7 Feb 2008)

Thanks I6.

The prices aren't bad at all, since I'm not paying a mortgage. I have never done gunfighter, only PWT3 and a Basic Urban Skills course, do you reccomend starting with iron sights or some kind of optic? 

To date I've always shot better with iron sights, and usually swap my C79 for one of those crappy plastic sights if I can.


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## Kilroy (9 Feb 2008)

How well does that sight keep its aim after firing full auto? Looks like a nice piece of kit. Go deer hunting with that, and the deer haven't got a chance!!


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## KevinB (9 Feb 2008)

When dialed down to 1.1 with the dot illuminated -- it acts like a Aimpoint or EOTECH -- so its pretty good -- shoot both eyes open and your GTG.

  Its nice since you can also crank up and deliver more precise shots at 4x with the crosshair.


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## Colin Parkinson (22 Feb 2008)

Kinda of reminds me what the FNC2 should have been. Can it still takes standard mags or strictly beltfed?


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## Eric_911 (22 Feb 2008)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Can it still takes standard mags or strictly beltfed?





			
				Infidel-6 said:
			
		

> Talking to buddies in AWG, Delta and DevGrp they recommended not using the box since it pinches closed if you put any pressure on it -- one of the navy guys is trying to dig up some nutsacks for it for us.



Yes, it accepts standard mags, but according to I-6, it is ill advised.

Voila


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## Colin Parkinson (22 Feb 2008)

I thought I6 comments refereed to a attached box for linked ammo as opposed to a magazine for loose ammo?


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## Eric_911 (22 Feb 2008)

Box Magazines generally refer to a type of mag similar in type to that of a C7 Mag. I understand the confusion though.

Read the para's on "Box" and "Belt". This may clarify things a little. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazine_%28firearms%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_%28firearm%29


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## KevinB (22 Feb 2008)

It does not take mags -- it can take a belt box.

 The Hk11 is a mag fed --and the Hk21E can be converted to mag use (at the expense of the belt fed option)


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## Eric_911 (22 Feb 2008)

Well I guess I was a little confused. In conjunction with the term "Box" being a little vague, when I saw the magwell on the Hk21E, I must have assumed it could take both, similar to the C9.

So it'll shoot belt fed, or mag-fed, but not both. Correct?


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## Colin Parkinson (22 Feb 2008)

Thanks for the clarification, is feeding a new belt in easy, OK or hard?


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## KevinB (22 Feb 2008)

The Hk21E has a swing down loading gate for the belt -- this can be swapped with a mag feed method (not a field swap).

 The Hk21A1 we have has a side opening loading platform -- it is intially awkward -- but once you get used to it -- its is as easy or easier as re-loading a C6.


FYI new M249/Minimi production guns got rid of the magwell as its a stupid waste of weight.


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## DirtyDog (24 Feb 2008)

How do you find the right hand cocking handle?


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## Loachman (24 Feb 2008)

With his right hand...?


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## DirtyDog (24 Feb 2008)

Loachman said:
			
		

> With his right hand...?


As in how do you rate it against a left hand cocking handle......


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## Loachman (24 Feb 2008)

Sorry. That was just too hard to resist.

But I did try.


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## KevinB (25 Feb 2008)

I like right hand cocking handles -- I use the C8/M4 cocking handle with my left -- and you use the Hk series with the left -- its less comfortable than the MP-5 due to weapon overall lenght -- but still very easy to use.

BigRed got back off leave to day -- so unfortunately I think he will come calling for it back


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