# Rememberance & loss from the soldiers' perspective



## RTaylor (4 Apr 2008)

The first reaction feels like an ice cold rod stuck into your spine, your head feels like there's a cold buzz going on and nothing much seems real. You feel like you're having tunnel vision and seeing it from someone else eye's and nothing else that you've been doing at that moment matters.

It's how I felt when I learned that a friend died in Iraq the first time. Similar feelings were evoked when another died that I knew but was more of an aquaintence than friend. I hadn't seen Mike or Chris for several years, but in November of 2006 and later, in 2007 , when I heard of their deaths it's how I felt.  

Mike, otherwise remembered to me as Private Seeley, was one crazy bastard Indian, and did alot of funny things that you had to be there to actually see. Nothing obnoxious or over the top, but stuff that just fit the situation. Gearing up for some exercises in the bush we were told to camo up...so he goes over, gets a half dead baby fern and plops it into his helmet's headband and tells the Master Corporal "I'm an Indian, no one will find me I'm that good". It was silly stuff like that. A great guy, quiet alot though, but he often talked about joining the US Marine Corp because, well, he was an Indian and he could because he didn't have to have US citizenship. ( http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2006/11/01/nb-seeleydead.html ). We did alot together during training, talked alot, and got to know eachother fairly well. After he joined the US Marine Corps we lost contact. 

And Christopher Stannix, I remember talking to him a few times in and out of uniform, a pretty friendly guy from what I knew. Didn't get to know him all too well, but a few people I know did. 

I was surfing the internet and somehow came across a list of casualties from the Iraq was a day or 2 ago and came across Mike's name. His death slipped my mind, as things do with the passage of time, but when I saw the picture of him memories came back.

I've had civvie friends die and it's upsetting, always is, but for some reason it feels different when I see a picture of a friend or comrade who has died defending what they believe in. My civilian friends and family can't seem to see this and sometimes it's hard to deal with the strong emotions one feels when they learn of someone that they've gone through so much with, slept beside, shared food with, spent hour upon hour with doing the most crap tasks known to man, has died. 

I even feel a tear spring to my eye and my heart wrench, just a little, every time I see a soldier, especially a fellow Canadian, die in combat, or senselessly to some coward terrorist.

Some War Vets I've spoken to say that they also feel that way when they come across old pictures or names of old comrades, but they hardly feel a twitch when it comes to a civilian friend who has died over the years. And on the other hand, alot of civvies that I've spoken to have said "What a senseless tradgedy" then in the same breath and manner say "We need a loaf of bread". I do believe that the training that the military goes through creates a ever lasting bond between current and prior military personell, regardless of rank.

As I said, civilians, no matter what they try to claim, they just don't understand. Some claim to, but I really don't believe them, to me they are the drama queens or attention whores who will piss and moan about anything to have focus placed on them.

Does anyone else see things kind of like I do, or am I seeing things like a victim of mental trama? It may just be on my mind these days because I have several friends serving in the Sandbox, and my cousin is heading over in a few weeks, add that to my upcoming enlistment and child due at the end of May...well I've been doing alot of thinking.


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## ENGINEERS WIFE (5 Apr 2008)

I think that you are right, in that most civies, just don't understand.  I being a civilian, have NEVER worked with someone that I know would die for me.  I think the military has bestowed intregrety, dedicaton and a sense of pride in it's soldiers that no civvie could possibly understand.  And I think that there is also a sense of realisation that "There, by the grace of God, go you or I".  That there are not always a lot of differences between the fallen and his/her comrades in arms. Only maybe place and timing and but other than that no difference. They were not reckless, maybe above and beyond the call of duty, but not reckless.
 As the wife of a Canadian soldier, as I have stood on the overpass as our fallen heros have returned, I feel a HUGE amount of emotions, as that could very well one day be me following my husband in that motorcade.  But, I also say that can't even imagine what it feels like to be in those shoes.
There, by the grace of God, go you or I.


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## RTaylor (5 Apr 2008)

I should change the topic to "Most Civvies" as some personell that works day in and day out with the military, spouses and children would probably be able to see part of the view also.

Military spouses are the unsung heroes of any armed forces IMO


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## helpup (5 Apr 2008)

I hope this thread doest get locked or degenerates into something turns out to be Civi's VS Army.   I get what your saying and am sorry for your loss. I like to think that a appeal of this site is that Civilians can come here to get a better idea as to what is going on between our cammo clad ears. And that it is a Forum for those who have walked the line at some point in their lives and have a " differant out look on things"................. Just remember that for the " Civi", in Canada at least it is our job to be there for what ever the cause. They may not understand us or agree with what we do, heck from your story some might even infer that he was just looking for war and could of avoided it. but as you mentioned " they" missed the boat. 

Yet those people missbegotten or who we just think are either wrong or missguided are who we do our job for. They make up the country we defend, not all will get that concept and in a way we were better off for that fact.  A sheep dog doesn't need the blessing from the sheep to know it is doing a good job, heck for that matter even the owner of both the sheep and the dog doesn't need to provide it's blessing. ( although it helps) The sheep dog knows it in it's genes that it is doing it's job.

My condolences for your Friend, his cause was of his choosing and although time will tell if the cause was worth the loss.  As for Civi's well not everyone keeps abreast of current events and there are alot of Canadians who dint have a clue as to why we are in Afghan let alone realize that as a Nation we are not in Iraq. 

But yah know what if they dint know I dint blame them. That is the bonus of living where they do. I just wish that my job wasn't dependent on the ignorant.


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## KMJAB (5 Apr 2008)

Almost one month after I started getting my paperwork together to join the army, I was sitting in the coffee room, reading the paper. The name on the front page was the same as my old friend, but I spent several minutes denying that it could have been him. I read his parent's names, his age, his hometown and with each confirming detail, my denial was forced to fade.

I was a civilian. Until that day I thought that I could empathise with those who lost. I used to read the papers and say, that is terrible, rest in peace. I thought I really understood the meaning of the sacrifice paid by our soldiers. 

But until someone was killed in service that I knew, and spent years knowing, that I watched grow into an adult, I did not know. I did not really understand the loss, and the respect that we owed to every fallen soldier. I simply could not really know the sacrifice without really knowing and missing the soldier. I read this post and I know the feeling you were trying to put into words about loss, and about seeing each new story with a tear in the eye.

The civilians that do not know are not irresponsible. They haven't failed nor are they wrong. They just can't know unless it happens to someone they know and love. You are also right about things being different when someone dies in the uniform, especially so when fighting for our country. It is different. It does mean something special. Don't get upset when some people don't get it. Much like you, the people I have talked to that didn't know him just don't get it. That's OK with me. I thought I did, but I did not until last year. I hope that most civilians in this country never have to come to this understanding. This is one matter where I pray earnestly for greater ignorance. 

For those that have lost, especially for those who have lost family, my deepest condolences. Renewed, unfortunately today, for Pte. Terry John Street, RIP.


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## Yrys (5 Apr 2008)

helpup said:
			
		

> I hope this thread doest get locked or degenerates into something turns out to be Civi's VS Army.


  

I don't see why it would be locked. And why be afraid to turn it into civilian vs military if everyone stay respectful ?

Civilian life IS different. Military is a way of life, not just a job. There is enough difference in the way of life that,
related to the lost of a friend, difference might not be understood... It is so rarely explain in MSM and to civilians,
that ignorance and thus incomprehension is "normal".



			
				helpup said:
			
		

> As for Civi's well not everyone keeps abreast of current events and there are alot of Canadians who dint have a clue as to why we are in Afghan let alone realize that as a Nation we are not in Iraq.



Some soldiers don't know either (why we're in Afghan). But a lot less.



			
				helpup said:
			
		

> But yah know what if they dint know I dint blame them. That is the bonus of living where they do. I just wish that my job wasn't dependent on the ignorant.



Doesn't the fact that Canadian Army is at war depend on politicians who get briefing by military ? Doesn't where you're post and how to do your job depend 
on the military (within contrain on the budget allocated by the government) ? How does your job depend on the ignorant ?  I don't understand (no sarcasm or 
punt or anything) ...


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## RTaylor (5 Apr 2008)

Only a small percent of the population is actually ignorant, the others are just uneducated. Pop culture and media has done that to them.


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## RTaylor (5 Apr 2008)

I like the re-wored header, thanks 

Could change it to ex-soldier but once its in your blood...


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## helpup (7 Apr 2008)

Yrys said:
			
		

> Doesn't the fact that Canadian Army is at war depend on politicians who get briefing by military ? Doesn't where you're post and how to do your job depend
> on the military (within contrain on the budget allocated by the government) ? How does your job depend on the ignorant ?  I don't understand (no sarcasm or
> punt or anything) ...



Sorry for my spelling mistakes, I was into a bit of Scotch for this post.  But getting back to your comments, a "similar" thread did get locked not that long ago. 

Your right it is from the politicians that we get our marching orders, from the military brass comes our postings, and we are our own best career manager.  The quote about my job depending on the ignorant is my reflection of the apathy in general of the Canadian public, that has over the years effected policy change that ranges from budget cuts, deployment to differant areas, or not deploying. And I have stated many a time that is my job and I do it proudly.  But as I follow a debate on the MSM or other venue most of the against crowd tends to be the altruistic but non the less ignorant crowd.  And I mean the word literally as generally they lack the facts and yet are making a very vocal opinion that can has and does sway the political fence sitters to turn the tiller and said downwind. From personal experience my job does very much depend on the ignorant, yet I do it freely.  And yes I have great job security and most of the running of my career is not dependent on anything outside of the Military.  But the overall direction of the military goes by the prevailing opinions of the Public.


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## RTaylor (11 Apr 2008)

My post can go for the Yanks too, and pretty well any country with a military. From what I see they this isnt just Canada, it's in many countries.


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