# pro-Palistinian protesters run into trouble in West Bank rally



## jollyjacktar (16 Apr 2012)

Would be interesting to see the full footage on this one after reading the comments after the story.  Shared with the usual caveats.  Full story, photos, a video at link.

*Horrific footage shows moment Israeli army officer smashed Danish peace protester in face with his rifle*
By Lee Moran
PUBLISHED: 15:09 GMT, 16 April 2012

A senior Israeli army officer who smashed a pro-Palestinian protester in the face with his gun has been suspended after footage of the horrific incident was put online.
Lieutenant-Colonel Shalom Eisner is seen ramming his M-16, with both hands, into Danish national Andreas Ias's face as activists took part in a bicycle rally in the occupied West Bank.  The video from Saturday's incident shows him falling to the ground and then being carried away by activists.

article link


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## matthew1786 (16 Apr 2012)

Although the officer's actions do seem to be overbearing, without proper context I would hardly call this a "horrific incident".


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## OldSolduer (16 Apr 2012)

It would be interesting to see the full footage.


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## dogger1936 (16 Apr 2012)

Horrific by North American standards. Compared to everywhere else in the middle east......


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## Ex-Dragoon (16 Apr 2012)

Had said protester carried on with his antics in Syria chances are he would be dead. These protestors are blind to the truth!  :


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## Colin Parkinson (16 Apr 2012)

Wait till the protesters carry out the Syrian leg of their protest ride....


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## jollyjacktar (16 Apr 2012)

I would like to see more of what when on prior to the start of the tape on the link as it is obviously edited from the side of the protesters POV.  The Dane did not seem to be gobbing off at the soldiers and the cross check shall we say came out of nowhere.  Now to be fair to the IDF soldier in question, he did seem to be more than a little frustrated and annoyed which suggests to me the protesters were not co-operating fully with whatever demands were required of them prior to the start of the clip.  The protesters also did not seem to be moving away from the checkpoint in a smart fashion either as was obviously required of them and really careless as well.  If an armed soldier tells me to bugger off, I'm moving, not yapping.  There is more to this story than what the Daily Mail presented, I believe.


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## medicineman (16 Apr 2012)

Of course there is, but what do you figure the odds of actually seeing that are?

MM


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## Edward Campbell (16 Apr 2012)

We hold the IDF to about the same standards we hold ourselves - and so we should: Israel is a modern, liberal democracy and the IDF is a sophisticated, professional military force. The action shown would be unacceptable in Canada, no matter the provocation; I suggest it is equally unacceptable in Israel. What might or might not happen in any Arab or Near Eastern/Middle Eastern/West Asian country is irrelevant because we do not and should not expect high standards from anyone in any of those countries.


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## jollyjacktar (16 Apr 2012)

medicineman said:
			
		

> Of course there is, but what do you figure the odds of actually seeing that are?
> 
> MM


I have looked at several other shots of the incident.  There may not be better film out there.  Optics is everything and as ER succinctly states that that behavior would not be acceptable here in Canada and it does look like a cheap shot to say the least.  I can understand the frustrations and tension that both sides of the checkpoint would be feeling, but professionalism should rule the day in situations like that.  One needs to keep their cool and can expect to be held accountable if they lose it.  From the statement I viewed made by a Israeli Government Spokesman for their PM, it would seem that an investigation is ongoing to get to the bottom of it and appropriate actions if warranted will be taken.


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## Edward Campbell (16 Apr 2012)

This is the standard for dealing with civilians, even with armed, provocative civilians - this is not acceptable from trained, supposedly disciplined soldiers. Do you want that LCol making decisions in a crisis that might impact on you? No? Do you think Israeli soldiers respect his judgement?


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## jollyjacktar (16 Apr 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> This is the standard for dealing with civilians, even with armed, provocative civilians - this is not acceptable from trained, supposedly disciplined soldiers. Do you want that LCol making decisions in a crisis that might impact on you? No? Do you think Israeli soldiers respect his judgement?


The kid at Oka, did great.  It helped too that he did not speak Anglais and "Lasagna" could not bait him into door number 2.  I agree, a field grade officer should have better control of his emotions and not let them get the best of him, however, you know there will be those troops who will say BZ for the butt stroke.  Hopefully, they will be in the minority.


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## GAP (16 Apr 2012)

As politically incorrect as it is and all.....he has served notice to future demonstrators that something similiar may happen to them......

this might serve to have the protestors backoff a bit and not be so "in your face".


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## jollyjacktar (16 Apr 2012)

GAP said:
			
		

> As politically incorrect as it is and all.....he has served notice to future demonstrators that something similiar may happen to them......
> 
> this might serve to have the protestors backoff a bit and not be so "in your face".


From the other footage I viewed, it did get them moving smartly backwards as was the desired direction.


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## Fishbone Jones (16 Apr 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> The kid at Oka, did great.  It helped too that he did not speak Anglais and "Lasagna" could not bait him into door number



Couple of quick points. It wasn't Robert 'Lasagna' Cross in the confrontation. It was Mohawk Warrior Brad Larocque.

The soldier in question ended up as a coke addicted  substance abusing, porn star actor.

Just some UFI.


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## Edward Campbell (16 Apr 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> ...
> The soldier in question ended up as a coke addicted  substance abusing, porn star actor.
> 
> Just some UFI.




All, sadly, true; but on that day he did exactly what needed to be done and he set the standard for disciplined soldiers in confrontations with civilians.


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## matthew1786 (16 Apr 2012)

http://www.timesofisrael.com/danish-activist-its-a-lie-that-i-attacked-officer/

Interesting, the officer said that he thought this protester was the person that hit him with a stick and broke his two fingers. Of course though, the protester is accusing the officer of being a liar!

_"Eisner has spoken only briefly with reporters since the incident, but said Monday that he thought Ayas was the same activist who, Eisner said, had hit him with a stick and broke two of his fingers."_


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## Jarnhamar (16 Apr 2012)

A LtCol shouldn't have an M16 and be facing off protestors in the first place.


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## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> All, sadly, true; but on that day he did exactly what needed to be done and he set the standard for disciplined soldiers in confrontations with civilians.



Again, AMEN (seems to be my posting of choice today).  

That young fellow was thrust into the limelight based on that sole incident, and much like people who aren't looking for fame and fortune, he had crappy coping mechanisms, combined with a system that probably didn't care.

But, as Mr. Campbell stated, he did exactly what was required of him.

Here  is the link of what he did, for those of you who don't know what he did

(I was on Op SALON as an infantryman from 2 RCR, then part of 5 GMBC.  We had similar experiences, be we found that they played their part for the cameras.  They also didn't know that we were english.  When they found out, they generally toned things down, because they knew we understood every word.)


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## medicineman (16 Apr 2012)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> We hold the IDF to about the same standards we hold ourselves - and so we should: Israel is a modern, liberal democracy and the IDF is a sophisticated, professional military force. The action shown would be unacceptable in Canada, no matter the provocation; I suggest it is equally unacceptable in Israel. What might or might not happen in any Arab or Near Eastern/Middle Eastern/West Asian country is irrelevant because we do not and should not expect high standards from anyone in any of those countries.



I would say it would be unacceptable if the guy that got buttstroked was simply mouthing off...if however a physical provocation (ie threat to life or attempt to disarm) occurred, I'd say it would be the lesser of the potential evils of being shot/tazed, etc.  After having had to look after people in emergency departments for alleged police brutality, I'd have to say that the people concerned got what they had coming to them in about 90+% of cases.  People these days seem to feel it is more than acceptable to fight with Security Forces...then whine and snivel when they come out on the wrong end of it.  Until I see the entire incident, I'll reserve judgement - if the guy was just gobbing off at him, well then that officer should fry to the full extent of the law, but if there was a physical threat of some sort, well then the protester got what he deserved.

Edward - I'd be willing to bet that that first picture could have easily looked like the second if the Mohawk in question made a move for the young VanDoo's weapon, or if the AK on his back suddenly came into a ready position or he pulled out an edged or impact weapon and made to use it.  Everything changes if there is a real or perceived threat to life or limb...as I said I'm not condoning the actions in Israel unless they were in fact justified - what I'm trying to say is we see only what we're permitted (in this case or others) to see and which is what only one person wants us to see to further their cause.  That picture is very evocative and it evoked the very reaction from you many people were hoping it would.  I guess I'm one of those guys that sees the picture, but really wants to know the whole story first before passing judgement.

Rule of thumb in emergency medicine which is just as true outside of the hospital - "Believe only half of what you see and none of what you hear."

Holy crap, every time I try to post this, someone else gets in there.  I'd like to add as a final thought now that a few other things have come to light - if this guy smoked someone for something he allegedly did well before hitting him back...simply put, sucks to be him.

MM

Typo fixed.


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## jollyjacktar (16 Apr 2012)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Couple of quick points. It wasn't Robert 'Lasagna' Cross in the confrontation. It was Mohawk Warrior Brad Larocque.
> 
> The soldier in question ended up as a coke addicted  substance abusing, porn star actor.
> 
> Just some UFI.


My mistake on the first.  As for the second, that is sadly true as I understand he could not handle the pressures of his resultant fame.  Nevertheless, that has no bearing on his bearing during the confrontation with the shytebird in front of him.  He kept his cool and professionalism intact and owned the sorry arsehole in the bandanna.  That, despite his later fall can never be taken from him.


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## jollyjacktar (18 Apr 2012)

An update on the situation.

IDF Officer reassigned to other duties


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Apr 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> My mistake on the first.  As for the second, that is sadly true as I understand he could not handle the pressures of his resultant fame.  Nevertheless, that has no bearing on his bearing during the confrontation with the shytebird in front of him.  He kept his cool and professionalism intact and owned the sorry arsehole in the bandanna.  That, despite his later fall can never be taken from him.



Which is why I said it was UFI!


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