# Masks



## Animatronic Fireman (19 Aug 2020)

We had a few issued to key positions in our unit but not enough for everyone and the ones issued some people have complained they are very uncomfortable. 

We are authorized by CoC to purchase our own masks but have colour restrictions to CADPAT, Black, OD Green or Tan/FDE. 

Who makes good quality fabric masks that I can recommend to my soldiers if they wish to purchase their own? I am hesitant to recommend CP Gear as though it could come in CADPAT will otherwise likely be trash.

Thanks for recommendations.


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## midget-boyd91 (19 Aug 2020)

Animatronic Fireman said:
			
		

> We had a few issued to key positions in our unit but not enough for everyone and the ones issued some people have complained they are very uncomfortable.
> 
> We are authorized by CoC to purchase our own masks but have colour restrictions to CADPAT, Black, OD Green or Tan/FDE.
> 
> ...



Canex. Good quality,  packs of 3. 
They cost 20 bucks,  but that's not bad when you accept the fact you'll be wearing them as often as you wear shoes for the foreseeable future.


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## Weinie (19 Aug 2020)

Canadian Tire 2 black masks for 6.99


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## Brash (19 Aug 2020)

Animatronic Fireman said:
			
		

> We had a few issued to key positions in our unit but not enough for everyone and the ones issued some people have complained they are very uncomfortable.
> 
> We are authorized by CoC to purchase our own masks but have colour restrictions to CADPAT, Black, OD Green or Tan/FDE.
> 
> ...



So you're calling troops in, getting them to work in situations where their self-aid requires that they have proper PPE in place....but:

Not supplying the required PPE to said troops? Check.
Restricting access to live saving PPE based on the criteria of it's colour during non-operations? Check.

Is it just me, or does that seem REALLY messed up?


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## stellarpanther (19 Aug 2020)

Animatronic Fireman said:
			
		

> We had a few issued to key positions in our unit but not enough for everyone and the ones issued some people have complained they are very uncomfortable.
> 
> We are authorized by CoC to purchase our own masks but have colour restrictions to CADPAT, Black, OD Green or Tan/FDE.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if you're part of a Reg force unit or PRes or even if it matters but a couple things.  The masks are not meant for comfort, they're designed to hopefully prevent or at least slow the spread of the Coronavirus.  Maybe I'm over reacting but I've had something to say to a couple people so far that I've  heard complaining about needing to wear one.  I'm sure most have seen pictures of doctors and nurses wearing them and having scars on their face, we're wearing nice cloth masks that while not the most comfortable thing in the world, are not really that bad.  Their was also a CDS directive stating that everyone is to wear a mask, I wish I could find it.  
Every single mbr in your unit should be issued at least a couple masks that they can wash unless you want to have a huge supply of disposable masks.  I'm very curious what you mean by "select key positions"?  Does that mean the CO and RSM?  Are those key people more important than the Pte or Cpl so they don't get to have one issued.  I'm actually surprised to hear some units don't have this mask situation sorted out yet.
Finally, why would you recommend mbr's purchase there own?  The unit should purchase a sufficient quantity and give them out.   
Sorry if I'm coming across like a prick but I take this mask issue very serious.  I practically bite my tongue until it bleeds in stores when I see people not wearing them or wearing them with there noses sticking out.  I wish some people would take it more serious.


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## dangerboy (20 Aug 2020)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> Their was also a CDS directive stating that everyone is to wear a mask, I wish I could find it.


https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/dm-cds-joint-directive.html


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## Old Sweat (20 Aug 2020)

As a relic of the old army, I'm waiting for the drill for donning and doffing masks to appear. Maybe it's time to replace "Greatcoats on. Greatcoats off" with "Masks on. Masks off".


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## OldSolduer (20 Aug 2020)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> I practically bite my tongue until it bleeds in stores when I see people not wearing them or wearing them with there noses sticking out.  I wish some people would take it more serious.



I do take it seriously and will wear a mask when required for instance in Wal Mart which has mandated them. 

Until its mandated BY LAW that we must wear one I will decline to wear one. If you want to judge me so be it.


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## dapaterson (20 Aug 2020)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> As a relic of the old army, I'm waiting for the drill for donning and doffing masks to appear. Maybe it's time to replace "Greatcoats on. Greatcoats off" with "Masks on. Masks off".



Great.  Another week added to basic training.  Donning masks.  Donning masks at the incline.  Doffing masks at quick march.  Donning masks at double time with sword.  Doffing masks at the slow march while carrying a carbine.  The history of mask wearing in the CAF.  Supply system and the mask.  Care and cleaning of your mask.  Having a mask in your display and others to wear.  Never iron or starch your mask, (except for the one in your display).


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## Old Sweat (20 Aug 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Great.  Another week added to basic training.  Donning masks.  Donning masks at the incline.  Doffing masks at quick march.  Donning masks at double time with sword.  Doffing masks at the slow march while carrying a carbine.  The history of mask wearing in the CAF.  Supply system and the mask.  Care and cleaning of your mask.  Having a mask in your display and others to wear.  Never iron or starch your mask, (except for the one in your display).



I thought I was being facetious, but then recalled the Canadian Army's reaction to a story in, I think, a Winnipeg paper about soldiers in uniform going to work on public transport carrying their lunches in brown paper bags. After much running around in mental circles, the army issued an instruction on how to carry one's lunch to work. As I recall it, lunch boxes were verboten, as were paper bags or anything else civilian. Instead, one was to place lunch (thermos optional) in a 51 pattern small pack with one shoulder strap attached. The pack was to be secured so no sign of said lunch was visible. Finally, the pack was to be carried on the left side, with the strap over the left shoulder, thus freeing the right arm for paying compliments. 

This demonstration of military power no doubt caused the Soviets to drastically increase the number of divisions tasked to attack 4 Brigade in the event of war.


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## dapaterson (20 Aug 2020)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> I thought I was being facetious, but then recalled the Canadian Army's reaction to a story in, I think, a Winnipeg paper about soldiers in uniform going to work on public transport carrying their lunches in brown paper bags. After much running around in mental circles, the army issued an instruction on how to carry one's lunch to work. As I recall it, lunch boxes were verboten, as were paper bags or anything else civilian. Instead, one was to place lunch (thermos optional) in a 51 pattern small pack with one shoulder strap attached. The pack was to be secured so no sign of said lunch was visible. Finally, the pack was to be carried on the left side, with the strap over the left shoulder, thus freeing the right arm for paying compliments.
> 
> This demonstration of military power no doubt caused the Soviets to drastically increase the number of divisions tasked to attack 4 Brigade in the event of war.



Clearly the staff received their training at the Wolseley Barracks...


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## Brash (20 Aug 2020)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> I do take it seriously and will wear a mask when required for instance in Wal Mart which has mandated them.
> 
> Until its mandated BY LAW that we must wear one I will decline to wear one. If you want to judge me so be it.



Depending on where you live, it already is required BY LAW in specific situations (public spaces most commonly).

If you aren't wearing a mask in a mandated situation I promise I won't judge you; as long as you don't judge me when I take your picture (in a public space) and report you to the authorities.


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## Animatronic Fireman (20 Aug 2020)

I 100% agree that masks should be supplied to all members and include multiple so they can be washed. That is likely what will happen eventually.


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## Animatronic Fireman (20 Aug 2020)

My understanding is that we will have procedure masks available and so the option to purchase a colour appropriate cloth mask on their own is just that, an option.


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## Animatronic Fireman (20 Aug 2020)

And I agree they aren't meant for comfort but if there is a good mask that has filtration, and is comfortable then it will likely work better as the individual is less likely to move it / adjust it / contaminate it.  The fact is the one I was issued is literally just a piece of cloth, the one I purchased for civilIan life at least has two different fabrics.


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## stellarpanther (20 Aug 2020)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> I do take it seriously and will wear a mask when required for instance in Wal Mart which has mandated them.
> 
> Until its mandated BY LAW that we must wear one I will decline to wear one. If you want to judge me so be it.



I do judge you because it's unfortunate that people like you will not listen to the experts and instead possibly be putting other peoples lives at risk.  They shouldn't have to pass a law to get people to do the right thing.  While it's possible the experts are wrong about masks, me wearing one will not risk someone's health however if the experts are right those not wearing one will affect peoples health.


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## stellarpanther (20 Aug 2020)

Old Sweat said:
			
		

> As a relic of the old army, I'm waiting for the drill for donning and doffing masks to appear. Maybe it's time to replace "Greatcoats on. Greatcoats off" with "Masks on. Masks off".



There was a course on it; a mandatory DLN course that explained what COVID-19 is and how it's spread and how to hopefully avoid catching and spreading it.  There is also a portion that covers how to put on the mask and remove it.


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## stellarpanther (20 Aug 2020)

Animatronic Fireman said:
			
		

> And I agree they aren't meant for comfort but if there is a good mask that has filtration, and is comfortable then it will likely work better as the individual is less likely to move it / adjust it / contaminate it.  The fact is the one I was issued is literally just a piece of cloth, the one I purchased for civilIan life at least has two different fabrics.



I think the Canadian media could do a better job at explain the use of masks, how to wear them such as covering you mouth AND nose etc but in the last week or so, they are now saying the masks that have the filtration valve should not be used because they won't filter out the virus.


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## Animatronic Fireman (20 Aug 2020)

There are masks with check valves that only filter one way and others masks that filter both ways. He different fabrics help with water droplets - some masks do 99% other 98% other 95% and other's less.  It might not filter a virus particle but it be a barrier to the water droplet that was carrying the virus.   By the way thank you to those that suggested some options.


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## stellarpanther (20 Aug 2020)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/dm-cds-joint-directive.html



Thank you, that's the one I was looking for as I have't seen anything else since.  It mentions that DND/CAF will have common DND/CAF policy but what I've seen is that everyone is doing their own thing and using their own judgement.


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## RangerRay (20 Aug 2020)

As someone who wears masks semi-religiously, I am getting ticked at buying masks that are more than uncomfortable. So far, I have spent good money on masks that either try to pull my ears off or push my nose into my brain. Yes, they are adult sized. No, I do not have a gargantuan head or nose. 

Until then, I will have to settle for Chinese made disposables.


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## stellarpanther (20 Aug 2020)

Animatronic Fireman said:
			
		

> There are masks with check valves that only filter one way and others masks that filter both ways. He different fabrics help with water droplets - some masks do 99% other 98% other 95% and other's less.  It might not filter a virus particle but it be a barrier to the water droplet that was carrying the virus.   By the way thank you to those that suggested some options.



Here is the a link to a recent article.  You or whoever is in charge of ordering them for your unit should consider discussing this with the CAF medical experts or maybe even one of the base supply sections for advice.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/masks-with-exhalation-valves-don-t-protect-others-from-covid-19-health-officials-say-1.5063976


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## OldSolduer (20 Aug 2020)

stellarpanther said:
			
		

> I do judge you because it's unfortunate that people like you will not listen to the experts and instead possibly be putting other peoples lives at risk.  They shouldn't have to pass a law to get people to do the right thing.  While it's possible the experts are wrong about masks, me wearing one will not risk someone's health however if the experts are right those not wearing one will affect peoples health.



Actually I am more at risk as I have a compromised immune system. Perhaps you need to check your over inflated sense of what's right and wrong at the door.

As for the one who wants to take my picture and report me - trust me if it is law I will obey it. So stuff it.


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## stellarpanther (20 Aug 2020)

Hamish Seggie said:
			
		

> Actually I am more at risk as I have a compromised immune system. Perhaps you need to check your over inflated sense of what's right and wrong at the door.
> 
> As for the one who wants to take my picture and report me - trust me if it is law I will obey it. So stuff it.



I also have a condition that could put me at  greater risk that I don't want to discuss but I think everyone has a right to be ticked off at people who refuse to wear masks or will only do so if they have to.  We all have a right to want to protect our health and that of our family and those who won't wear one are putting that health at risk so say the health experts.


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## Weinie (20 Aug 2020)

You can't impose your health considerations on someone else. That is the hand you have been dealt; you can either minimize your risk by not going out, or accept that the rest of the world has rights as well.


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## stellarpanther (20 Aug 2020)

Weinie said:
			
		

> You can't impose your health considerations on someone else. That is the hand you have been dealt; you can either minimize your risk by not going out, or accept that the rest of the world has rights as well.



Whether someone has an underlying health condition or not, nobody has a right to jeopardize another persons health because they are too ignorant to wear a mask.  When it comes to the mask issue, I am following the guidance of health experts and not forming my own uneducated medical opinion as to whether they are important or not to wear.  Health experts believe they are so that's what I believe.  I believe it's completely disrespectful and selfish for someone not to wear one in public.  I can understand the rights I have regarding a person to wanting to breath healthy air but I can't find anything about someone not wearing a mask because they don't want to.  I'm not talking about someone who can't for a health reason but those minimal.


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## Jarnhamar (20 Aug 2020)

Weinie said:
			
		

> You can't impose your health considerations on someone else. That is the hand you have been dealt; you can either minimize your risk by not going out, or accept that the rest of the world has rights as well.



I'll wear a mask in stores since I need to in order to get service but not out and about in public.


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## Kilted (20 Aug 2020)

I'm surprised that the military has thrown more of their own method in to this. Although I know of one base wear you are basically always wearing them outside like they are a second headdress. I'm waiting for MASKFORGEN when they come up with rules for which colour mask you wear in which order of dress. Cadpat for combats, masks that match the headdress for deu/cerimonial, and scarlet (or regimental equivalent) for mess dress.


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## dapaterson (20 Aug 2020)

Kilted said:
			
		

> I'm surprised that the military has thrown more of their own method in to this. Although I know of one base wear you are basically always wearing them outside like they are a second headdress. I'm waiting for MASKFORGEN when they come up with rules for which colour mask you wear in which order of dress. Cadpat for combats, masks that match the headdress for deu/cerimonial, and scarlet (or regimental equivalent) for mess dress.



RCN (officer) mess dress masks will have gold trim in line with rank, and the executive curl.

Army mess dress masks will be scarlet with branch / regimental facings, which you will have to buy at a modest 1,000% markup from the kitshop.

RCAF mess dress masks will have callsigns embroidered on them.


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## stellarpanther (20 Aug 2020)

Kilted said:
			
		

> I'm surprised that the military has thrown more of their own method in to this. Although I know of one base wear you are basically always wearing them outside like they are a second headdress. I'm waiting for MASKFORGEN when they come up with rules for which colour mask you wear in which order of dress. Cadpat for combats, masks that match the headdress for deu/cerimonial, and scarlet (or regimental equivalent) for mess dress.



They've actually started discussing that already.  With DEU's it will be a black mask, I've also seen some people get issued the CADPAT masks and I've seen a grey type mask already.  What I've heard is they want toned down darker colours, no patterns, cartoons or sports team masks.  I heard from a couple people that they are wearing the masks constantly while working and can take it off when they go for a break outside or on lunch when not near other people.  This is from people at a couple different bases.  A lot of people are still not back to work and are working from home so they only need a mask when they come in for meets and to pickup new work.  Some expect the working from home to continue happening for a while.


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## Zoomie (21 Aug 2020)

We have CADPAT issued masks and green or grey issued SA neck gaiters.   I wear the neck gaiter as it is far easier to don/doff depending on what room/stairwell I am in at work.

Out in public buildings like the grocery store, Canadian Tire, Home Depot, I wear my civvie style neck gaiter/scarf.   I wear it to set an example for everyone else - I understand that the mask doesn’t protect me, I’m doing it for altruistic reasons to protect everyone “in case” I have COVID.   I will routinely go through an entire store and not see anyone else wearing a mask - this is why we haven’t beaten this disease - simple shit people, wear a damn mask - you don’t need to wait until it is legislated.


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## dimsum (21 Aug 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> RCAF mess dress masks will have callsigns embroidered on them.



Ok, so how about the other 98% of the RCAF who aren't fighter pilots or air weapons controllers?   :nod:


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## dapaterson (21 Aug 2020)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Ok, so how about the other 98% of the RCAF who aren't fighter pilots or air weapons controllers?   :nod:



According to the fighter pilots and AWCs...  say what?


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