# Break In / Stolen Gear



## Steveanthony (8 Feb 2015)

Hello , Last night at 19:00 I arrived home to find my home had been broken into(through the window). I had my pelican case locked luckily but I had my small pack out with a couple miscellaneous items. Whoever broke in took these items , I instant went to the police station to fill out a report and give them a list of items stolen. Its the weekend so I am unsure of who to contact I have the file number etc but do I email my regiment P-Res.
Pretty sad someone would do this definitely not something I wanted to deal with , If anyone can help me out here it would be appreciated.


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## Jarnhamar (8 Feb 2015)

Hold on to the police file number.  When you fill out a LSR (Can't remember what it stands for, like a lost kit report) and you identify that the items were stolen (and that you don't accept responsibility and you won't pay) you'll need the police file number.

When you go to work next fill out a memo to your chain of command and let them know that your stuff was stolen.


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## Halifax Tar (8 Feb 2015)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> Hold on to the police file number.  When you fill out a LSR (Can't remember what it stands for, like a lost kit report) and you identify that the items were stolen (and that you don't accept responsibility and you won't pay) you'll need the police file number.
> 
> When you go to work next fill out a memo to your chain of command and let them know that your stuff was stolen.



LSR = MLR = Miscellaneous Loss Report 

FYI in this case you will/should not be held responsible by your CoC BUT just because you do not accept responsibility does not mean your CoC wont find you responsible and take admin/discipline or financial recovery against you. 

Good job getting the police file number add that to all the details in the MLR and you should be good to go.


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## Jarnhamar (8 Feb 2015)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> FYI in this case you will/should not be held responsible by your CoC BUT just because you do not accept responsibility does not mean your CoC wont find you responsible and take admin/discipline or financial recovery against you.



True but I can't see that passing the sniff test if the guy grieves it.


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## Pusser (9 Feb 2015)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> True but I can't see that passing the sniff test if the guy grieves it.



It depends on the circumstances.  If the CoC determines that there was negligence involved, then yes, he could be held liable.  There are a number of ways to deal with it.  QR&O Chapter 38 gives the details.  A pertinent point though is that it has to go all the way to the CDS in order to make the member pay $250.  However, by going through JAG, the system can theoretically recover the full amount.

Having said this, in my experience it is highly likely that the kit will be written off and replaced at no cost to the member.  However, this only applies to permanent and temporary loan items.  It does not apply to any DEU items.  DEU items have to claimed on homeowner/tenant insurance.


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## Bzzliteyr (9 Feb 2015)

Also, make sure your supply system replaces the items right away. Many chains of command think that this happens AFTER the loss report makes its way through the system. It doesn't. You get new kit right away so you can continue on. 

Cost and details can be sorted out later but you need to be able to function as if those pieces weren't stolen.


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## Harris (9 Feb 2015)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Having said this, in my experience it is highly likely that the kit will be written off and replaced at no cost to the member.  However, this only applies to permanent and temporary loan items.  It does not apply to any DEU items.  DEU items have to claimed on homeowner/tenant insurance.



Would you have a reference for this?  My experience is not this.  I've had a number of troops have items stolen from their homes and there was no difference between DEU and non-DEU.  They were charged for all of the missing kit and the reason given was they were expected to have homeowner insurance.  That being said they were only charged a fraction of what it cost.  I think the max is $250 regardless of the cost of the missing kit.


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## George Wallace (9 Feb 2015)

Harris said:
			
		

> Would you have a reference for this?  My experience is not this.  I've had a number of troops have items stolen from their homes and there was no difference between DEU and non-DEU.  They were charged for all of the missing kit and the reason given was they were expected to have homeowner insurance.  That being said they were only charged a fraction of what it cost.  I think the max is $250 regardless of the cost of the missing kit.



Having had to deal with the forms for "Loss or Damaged Kit", there are numerous spots that the individual's supervisors through to CO can either make and justify recommendations to write off items or charge the expense of the item to the member.  It looks like you have been facing instances where no one wanted to do so.


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## ModlrMike (9 Feb 2015)

Harris said:
			
		

> Would you have a reference for this?  My experience is not this.  I've had a number of troops have items stolen from their homes and there was no difference between DEU and non-DEU.  They were charged for all of the missing kit and the reason given was they were expected to have homeowner insurance.  That being said they were only charged a fraction of what it cost.  I think the max is $250 regardless of the cost of the missing kit.



Many homeowner policies do not cover equipment owned by the Crown, even if it is in your custody. The Crown self insures is the most often cited reason.


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## Pusser (10 Feb 2015)

Harris said:
			
		

> Would you have a reference for this?  My experience is not this.  I've had a number of troops have items stolen from their homes and there was no difference between DEU and non-DEU.  They were charged for all of the missing kit and *the reason given was they were expected to have homeowner insurance.[/*color]  That being said they were only charged a fraction of what it cost.  I think the max is $250 regardless of the cost of the missing kit.




Complete BS!  The member does not own non-DEU items; therefore, cannot claim them on any homeowner insurance policy I've ever seen.  It would actually be fraud to do so.  Sadly, I have noticed that the Army tends to be obsessed with squeezing every last nickle out of soldiers for lost kit.  On my basic officer course in 1985, after ten days in the field, our only loss was a machete scabbard (pretty good for a herd of cats), yet rather than writing it off, we all had to chip in our 16 cents to pay for it.  In fact the Sup Tech actually went around collecting pennies!  Yet as a ship's Supply Officer, I routinely recommended write-offs without recovery for lost kit as long as the member's explanation was reasonable and plausible (including home break-ins).


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## Occam (10 Feb 2015)

The Supply Administration Manual contains all the information dealing with Miscellaneous Loss Reports (MLR).

Some important points from the manual:

- Any CADPAT, CTS and CEMS items stolen or lost require the use of a MLR, regardless of dollar value lost

- If a member refuses to accept responsibility for a loss, and objects to the proposed deduction on the grounds that it is unwarranted or excessive, QR&O 38.03 applies.

-An MLR must be raised for all losses of equipment or clothing that incorporates the CADPAT design or any item acquired under the Army Clothe the Soldier (CTS) and the Air Force’s Clothing and Equipment Millennium Standard (CEMS) projects. An MLR is required for all losses including those where an individual accepts responsibility, regardless of the dollar value of the item. In cases where the member accepts responsibility for the loss, the individual is required to provide circumstances surrounding the loss at part 1 of the MLR and have the document signed off by the member’s supervisor, prior to its being replaced by clothing stores.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Feb 2015)

I wonder under what circumstance the chain of command could find negligence on behalf of the soldier if he has a civilian police report stating his residence was broken into.



			
				Pusser said:
			
		

> Complete BS!  The member does not own non-DEU items; therefore, cannot claim them on any homeowner insurance policy I've ever seen.  It would actually be fraud to do so.



That's an interesting point.


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## MJP (10 Feb 2015)

Jarnhamar said:
			
		

> I wonder under what circumstance the chain of command could find negligence on behalf of the soldier if he has a civilian police report stating his residence was broken into.



I can't speak for Pusser but I interpreted his point to mean in general regardless of the situation if a soldier was negligent in the loss of their kit the CO can order that monies be paid or fwd it up for further recovery action.  I haven' seen anybody been charged money for crimes against them yet...even if the mbr was a dummy who left their 3/4s of their kit visible in an unlocked car downtown.

At the end of the day the CO (or higher) determines the amount based on all the inputs from the CoC and the rules governing recovery of money for public items IAW the limits they are restrained by.  Even someone who has fully accepted responsibility can have the overall amount dropped by the CO.


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