# How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment



## Crane Driver

Lets get some real tradition going.  Form a kilted regiment for the CF.  We could start by moving 3000 head office positions from Ottawa out and get some more feet on the ground.  Too many Rotos for too few personnel.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/bagpipe.gif


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## Towards_the_gap

:

Sure, there's plenty of money lying around for that....Did you not notice we are at war? There are more important things than giving people nice different uniforms for the hell of it. 

Nice first post though.


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## The Bread Guy

Crane Driver said:
			
		

> Lets get some real tradition going.


As opposed to the faux traditions that have built up until now?

What Towards_the_gap said.....


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## boboyer

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> As opposed to the faux traditions that have built up until now?



Was just about to say.....


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## dapaterson

Hmm.  Too many Rotos for too few personnel.  CF Reg F TES: 56 000.  One Roto: 2800.   If we can't sustain 5% deployed then we're a fraud.

Oh, but we're drawing 20% of the deployed strength from the Reserves, so it's closer to 4% of the Reg F deployed.


On the other hand, in these times where we're looknig to save money, standing up a unit with no requirement for or entitlement to underwear would save some money; perhaps a business case could be made.


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## Redeye

Did I miss something about the kilt being essential to tradition?

We have plenty of kilted regiments with great traditions, in the Reserve.  That's fine.  I can't see a single valid reason to shuffle things around, when Reg F battalions have their own share of "real" traditions and history and so on.  Sure, it'll get someone the "leading change" PER bubble, but not exactly a priority.


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## dangerboy

If we did magically have the available pers to form a new unit, I would rather see them diverted to the 9 already formed Battalions.  We could bring them up to full strength, bring back the 4th Rifle Coy and bring back the support Pls. But this is just a pipe dream.


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## OldSolduer

While we're at it, lets get a Reg Force Rifle Regiment stood up too......just sayin.........


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## Edward Campbell

Been there, done that - _circa_ 1951/53 when 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion, 1st Canadian Highland Battalion and 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion were formed. They later became the Canadian Guards, the Black Watch and the Queen's Own Rifles.


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## OldSolduer

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Been there, done that - _circa_ 1951/53 when 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion, 1st Canadian Highland Battalion and 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion were formed. They later became the Canadian Guards, the Black Watch and the Queen's Own Rifles.



Yes I am aware that we had Reg Force regiments like that.

Maybe a Mess Tin Repair Company?  ;D


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## dapaterson

On a more serious note:

Kilted regiments were stood up in Canada as an attempt to pander to ethnic groups to encourage them to enlist.  It was effective in WWI and WWII.   

With the changes to Canada's ethnic composition, we don't need more kilts, but rather we need to adopt othe elements to attract non-traditional groups to the CF.

It would probably be much better (from a recruiting and personnel sustainment perspective) to stand up a Sikh regiment based out west, than to add YABOGIS*.




(*YABOGIS - Yet Another Bunch Of Guys In Skirts)


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## chrisf

On the subject of tradtions...

A room contains a researcher and a small stool. Hanging over the stool is a banana on a string. The researcher wears a white lab-coat and holds a fully pressurized fire-hose. An arbitrary number of monkeys is released into the room. 

Sooner or later one of them will make for the stool to try and grab the banana. Yet as soon as that monkey climbs the stool and approaches his prize, the researcher lets him have it with the hose. And not only does that monkey get it, but all monkeys in the room (whether they touched the banana or not) get sprayed. After soaking them roughly for a few moments, the researcher turns off the hose. 

Perhaps another monkey gets brave or hungry. When he climbs the stool and touches the banana, the researcher lets him have it. And as before, all the monkeys also get doused, whether they moved towards the banana or not. Repeat this process enough and, after the group has suffered enough soakings, the following effect should be noticed: Should any monkey make for the stool, the rest can be counted on to beat him silly before he reaches either it or the banana, sparing themselves. After awhile, the group avoids the banana even as their bellies growl. 

Now say the researcher removes a monkey and brings in a new one to replace him. No big surprise, one of his first actions might be to make directly for the banana. And of course the others won't allow this, for if he should make it they all get sprayed again. They administer a beating to the confused newcomer, until he learns not to near the stool. 

Should the experiment continue, perhaps after replacing every monkey in the original generation, one can even remove the researcher. The descendants enforce the social order even though they may never been sprayed or even know about the researcher. By now no monkeys have directly experienced the hose, and in fact no white-coated danger exists, yet still their options are self-curtailed. There is no risk in the banana. Yet they avoid it, none quite certain why. 

This is the origin of traditions.


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## FoverF

Do we have enough Nepalese-Canadians to muster a Gurkha Bn? 

In all seriousness, I actually do support having units with ethnic affiliations. I can say for certain that nearly every member of my extended family has at least given consideration to joining our familial regiment, and several have enlisted/been commissioned (probably more would have enlisted if it were a Reg Force unit, as it's rather inconvenient to relocate to Winnipeg to join a part-time unit). 

Having a military unit established for *you* and *your people* puts the idea of joining into one's head, kind of a 'foot in the door' if you will for recruiters. Even when the units aren't strictly segregated, and there's no guarantee of being posted to that unit, it still provides the notion that there is a place for you in the military, that you are wanted somewhere. 

Just my  :2c:


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## Newt

FoverF said:
			
		

> Do we have enough Nepalese-Canadians to muster a Gurkha Bn?
> 
> In all seriousness, I actually do support having units with ethnic affiliations. I can say for certain that nearly every member of my extended family has at least given consideration to joining our familial regiment, and several have enlisted/been commissioned (probably more would have enlisted if it were a Reg Force unit, as it's rather inconvenient to relocate to Winnipeg to join a part-time unit).
> 
> Having a military unit established for *you* and *your people* puts the idea of joining into one's head, kind of a 'foot in the door' if you will for recruiters. Even when the units aren't strictly segregated, and there's no guarantee of being posted to that unit, it still provides the notion that there is a place for you in the military, that you are wanted somewhere.
> 
> Just my  :2c:



That is some serious Trudeau era BS. Units with ethnic affiliations would only weaken army cohesion. What happens when the Duke of Kent's Croatian Rifles are paired up on ex with the Toronto Serbian Dragoons? I know that's not a likely example, but you have to keep in mind that a lot of ethnic groups have come to Canada to get away from the strife being inflicted upon them by other ethnic groups. These ethnic grudges aren't always left behind once they get their citizenship cards. Instead of reinforcing the concept of hyphenated Canadians we need to encourage being Canadian (whatever that means).


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## Redeye

Cpl Mark McLaren, who was KIA in Afghanistan on 5 Dec 2008, was of a rather unusual ethnic mix, being half-Scottish and half-Chinese.  (his nickname while in the Reserve was Chinaman, variations followed him to The RCR).  He mused that some day when he was rich he was going to raise his own Regiment, The Queen's Own Chinese Highlanders.

I'll echo the sentiment as a thought experiment, though, that the emergence of units that reflect greater ethnic diversity in Canada, especially in Reserve units who draw heavily from a local community, is interesting indeed.  Such regiments need not being exclusive.  A survey of the ranks of the Black Watch, the Argylls, the 48th, the Tor Scots, etc would reveal plenty of members whose ancestry lies anywhere but Scotland, but who are still borne of pride in their traditions.


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## FoverF

Newt said:
			
		

> That is some serious Trudeau era BS. Units with ethnic affiliations would only weaken army cohesion....
> 
> Instead of reinforcing the concept of hyphenated Canadians we need to encourage being Canadian (whatever that means).



So we should get rid of the Highland regiments, because they reinforce the concept of 'Scottish-Canadians'?


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## Blackadder1916

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> On the subject of tradtions...
> 
> A room contains a researcher and a small stool. Hanging over the stool is a banana on a string sheep. The researcher wears a white lab-coat and holds a fully pressurized fire-hose. An arbitrary number of monkeys  Scotsmen are released into the room.
> 
> Sooner or later one of them will make for the stool to try and grab the banana sheep. Yet as soon as that monkey Scotsman climbs the stool and approaches his prize, the researcher lets him have it with the hose. And not only does that monkey Scotsman get it, but all monkeys Scotsmen in the room (whether they touched the banana sheep or not) get sprayed. After soaking them roughly for a few moments, the researcher turns off the hose.
> 
> Perhaps another monkey gets brave or hungry. When he climbs the stool and touches the banana, the researcher . . .
> All the Scotsmen turn on the researcher and pound the crap out of him and then fight among themselves to see who gets the sheep. There are three factions among the Scotsmen; those who want the sheep for a meal, those who want to convert the sheep to a musical instrument and those who want the sheep for a bride.
> 
> This is the origin of highland traditions.



Amended to better reflect the topic.


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## Newt

FoverF said:
			
		

> So we should get rid of the Highland regiments, because they reinforce the concept of 'Scottish-Canadians'?



Personally, I have no real attachment the concept of Highland regiments. My heritage is Scottish, one of my great-grandfathers served in a Highland regiment, but I have no real calling to serve in a Highland regiment myself. 

What if the Scottish traditions of the Highland regiments is actually discouraging enrollment in those units based on erroneous perceptions that you must be Scottish-Canadian to join?

Instead of generating affinity by creating ethnic units we should be creating familiarity by being directly involved in the community. Get out of the armouries and demonstrate to new Canadians that the Canadian Forces are a valid and respectable organization. Is the local mosque organizing a food drive? Offer up an ML to transport food. Is the Sikh community centre preparing meals for a homeless shelter? Offer a field kitchen and some cooks (maybe the egg welders will learn some new recipes).


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## Michael OLeary

FoverF said:
			
		

> So we should get rid of the Highland regiments, because they reinforce the concept of 'Scottish-Canadians'?



That's as good a reason as any.    ;D  

(Impressment, recruiting, transportation and emigration ... the four horsemen of the apocalypse by which the British populated the world with the Gaelic peoples.)  

Anyway, back to the irreverence of the original topic .... Why don't we just convert one battalion of each Reg F infantry regiment to kilted dress. Second Battalions, anyone?

While we're at it, and just to be fair, we'll do the same to one armoured regiment, one regiment of artillery, one service battalion ..... and one third of the Directorates in NDHQ, who will wear a tartan designed by a tri-service committee.   >


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## dapaterson

2nd Bns all kilted? How ridiculous.

Make it the 3rd Bns.  I look forward to the kilted para companies, particularly jumping in for an arctic SovEx.


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## SeanNewman

Interesting way to look at it with battalions of a regiment being broken down more, but I just can't see it headed in that direction.

Without the Reserve tribes I think we already would have gone to a much cheaper and easier system of numbered regiments like Australia has done.

Then it wouldn't be such a PITA to shift guys around to get them broader experience, and have them see more of the country.  Everyone could get their one posting in Valcartier, and the whole corps would be more bilingual.

On the note of ethnic segregation, other than the Rangers I can't ever see that happening in Canada.  Some would argue that there is already ethnic discrimination with the R22eR not accepting English people, but that's not the same as going back to the days of a Scot or black regiment.

I would be more curious to see what a multi-ethnic unit would end up like, similar to the FFL, but everyone I know who has experience there has told me they may have a good reputation but it's not earned and their performance is actually quite sub-par.


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## dapaterson

I've seen many more anglos serving in the R22eR than I have seen francos in the PPCLI or that other English Reg F infantry regiment.


And I would not underestimate the tribalism of the Regular Force inafntry regiments.  They can be even worse than their Reserve compatriots.


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## SeanNewman

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I've seen many more anglos serving in the R22eR than I have seen francos in the PPCLI or that other English Reg F infantry regiment.



See incoming PM for an explanation of how this has changed.


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## mariomike

Newt said:
			
		

> Instead of generating affinity by creating ethnic units we should be creating familiarity by being directly involved in the community. Get out of the armouries and demonstrate to new Canadians that the Canadian Forces are a valid and respectable organization. Is the local mosque organizing a food drive? Offer up an ML to transport food. Is the Sikh community centre preparing meals for a homeless shelter? Offer a field kitchen and some cooks (maybe the egg welders will learn some new recipes).



If interested in reaching out to the community, perhaps consider the Children's Breakfast Club.: 
http://www.breakfastclubs.ca/whats.php


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## medicineman

Redeye said:
			
		

> A survey of the ranks of the Black Watch, the Argylls, the 48th, the Tor Scots, etc would reveal plenty of members whose ancestry lies anywhere but Scotland, but who are still borne of pride in their traditions.



I was covering the parade where the Calgary Highlanders and King's Own Calgary Regt each received new Queen's Colours/Guidons...the subaltern that received the Colour for the Highlanders was a Sikh, in his kilt, with his rifle green turban on his head.  That was something neat to see.

MM


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## SeanNewman

medicineman said:
			
		

> ...That was something neat to see.



That's _one_ word for it!


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## vonGarvin

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> This is the origin of traditions.


No, that's just conditioned response.  Traditions are handed on, explained and cherished.


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## Shamrock

Technoviking said:
			
		

> No, that's just conditioned response.  Traditions are handed on, explained and cherished.



I was more just thinking that the above was a metaphor of why people come to army.ca but eventually stop posting.


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## medicineman

Petamocto said:
			
		

> That's _one_ word for it!



I've mellowed and matured in the last 20 odd years - my original thoughts were far from politically correct...or polite.

MM


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## Dissident

Meh. 

Here in BC where in Richmond the majority are Chinese and in Surrey where there are a lot of East Indians/Sikh's I could see some "Ethnic" units being formed up. Hell, there is an argument to be made that 12 SVC Bn/Coy is already an ethnically Chinese unit.

I would be more than happy to join a Sikh infantry unit.


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## Crane Driver

Okay how about just getting rid of 3000 head office personnel and using those funds to get appropriate resource. shttp://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/grin.gif


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## PuckChaser

Crane Driver said:
			
		

> Okay how about just getting rid of 3000 head office personnel and using those funds to get appropriate resource. shttp://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/grin.gif



You know you've got 2 posts, and both take a shot at the puzzle palace workers. Obviously you have a bone to pick with the high numbers of staff people in Ottawa, so why not just start that topic, instead of throwing up a random post about Kilted RegF Infantry units to cover shots at NDHQ.


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## Old Sweat

Crane Driver said:
			
		

> Okay how about just getting rid of 3000 head office personnel and using those funds to get appropriate resource. shttp://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/grin.gif


Massive cuts to NDHQ and to the commands always sounds good on paper. The rub is who, or rather what functions, do you chop? Engineering, procurement, pay and pensions, force development, career management, how about intelligence or the loggies that try to keep ahead of the requirements or maybe the medical and dental staffs? A modern military force has a lot of complext functions that require people and there isn't a lot of wiggle room. There is fat and duplication, but bureaucracies have a survival instinct and a life of their own. A ten percent cut would just play havoc with orderly rooms and junior desk officers while the empires would still sail happily along. Even if the dotcoms were to be chopped, a step that might be nearer than we think, most of the positions would just migrate to another organization chart.


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## medicineman

Better yet, just join a Reserve Highland Regiment.  We have three ethnically challenged regiments in the Reg Force Infantry already - we don't need a fourth.  

For the rest of you who are wondering WTF??? - R22eR: Largely Francophone; PPCLI: Largely Redneck (  ); The RCR : a preponderance of Newfoundlanders and Maritimers which makes it difficult to communicate with either of the other 2 regiments (and their supporting units if they aren't from the areas aforementioned).  

On a (slightly) more serious note, I think the last thing we need, just based solely on Celtic Heritage, is another unit of overly hard drinking, incomprehensible and silly dressed soldiers running around loose.  You MIGHT be able to make a case that 2RCR, being that they actually have a pipe band to carry on the tradition of their Black Watch lineage, could be kilted up...but why bother.  There are couple of threads here about how necessary is it to change our Army uniforms YET AGAIN.  If you think that we need to get rid of 3000 staff geeks in Ottawa, that's one thing...but doing it just to accomodate your pining for gluteal and scrotal air conditioning when dressed up?  I think you need a better reason for that.  And I can think of a lot better things to spend money on that's saved by cutting back on NDHQ or other HQ staffers...realistic levels of practice ammo for people to keep shooting skills up for one, or more SATS equipment for the same, better training opportunities outside of High Readiness units, etc.  If you want to wear a kilt, find out what clans you have affiliations with, save up and buy a nice kilt with highland tux outfit.

Rant over.

MM


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## Kirkhill

medicineman said:
			
		

> I was covering the parade where the Calgary Highlanders and King's Own Calgary Regt each received new Queen's Colours/Guidons...the subaltern that received the Colour for the Highlanders was a Sikh, in his kilt, with his rifle green turban on his head.  That was something neat to see.
> 
> MM



As an ex-Cal Highr I was in attendance that day.  I was thought the turban and the beard looked a fair match for the kilt.


And beside, as I remember being informed at the time, that subby had more time-in on two way ranges than anybody else on that field.  He previously served in the Indian Army.


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## brihard

Blackadder1916 said:
			
		

> Amended to better reflect the topic.



Blackadder, I was almost in tears laughing at that. Thanks.


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## Task

I would like to see reserve Coy's if not Reg'ts populated with Canadian descendants of current/potential conflict areas.

1) Afghanistan
2) African
3) Chinese
4) South American

Imagine what Coy of CANADIAN CULTURED Afghani's could accomplish winning the hearts and minds over there.
How about the effect on the OMLT. Being Canada we have the (one of) largest potential resources to exact our interests.


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## Brutus

Task said:
			
		

> I would like to see reserve Coy's if not Reg'ts populated with Canadian descendants of current/potential conflict areas.
> 
> 1) Afghanistan
> 2) African
> 3) Chinese
> 4) South American
> 
> Imagine what Coy of CANADIAN CULTURED Afghani's could accomplish winning the hearts and minds over there.
> How about the effect on the OMLT. Being Canada we have the (one of) largest potential resources to exact our interests.



Are you proposing a segregated military? I know this is not your intent, but that's what it amounts to.


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## Michael OLeary

Task said:
			
		

> Imagine what Coy of CANADIAN CULTURED Afghani's could accomplish winning the hearts and minds over there.
> How about the effect on the OMLT. Being Canada we have the (one of) largest potential resources to exact our interests.



If we form it for that particular reason, what do we do with it after CF involvement in Afghanistan ends?

(Or any other such unit formed because of a CF role in a particular region.)


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## The Bread Guy

FoverF said:
			
		

> Having a military unit established for *you* and *your people* puts the idea of joining into one's head, kind of a 'foot in the door' if you will for recruiters. Even when the units aren't strictly segregated, and there's no guarantee of being posted to that unit, it still provides the notion that there is a place for you in the military, that you are wanted somewhere.


Yeah, good idea.  After all, they would be better off with *their own kind* instead of mixing with the rest of us Canadians, right?

Oh, wait, I thought the CF was established for **us**, as in all Canadians.



			
				Brutus said:
			
		

> Are you proposing a segregated military? I know this is not your intent, but that's what it amounts to.


Zackly....

Coming up next - A Canadian Foreign Legion:  A Way to Get More Foreigners to Fight for Us, or Just More Funny Uniforms?   :


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## Edward Campbell

dapaterson said:
			
		

> 2nd Bns all kilted? How ridiculous.
> 
> Make it the 3rd Bns.  I look forward to the kilted para companies, particularly jumping in for an arctic SovEx.



Done, already: see here, 3rd paragraph.


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## Task

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> If we form it for that particular reason, what do we do with it after CF involvement in Afghanistan ends?
> 
> (Or any other such unit formed because of a CF role in a particular region.)



Good question. If it were a Coy size it should be easy enough to absorb in other near by units. Reg't size a tad more difficult. I honestly have not thought about it that hard. It was more of a fleeting thought after seeing the topic.



			
				Brutus said:
			
		

> Are you proposing a segregated military? I know this is not your intent, but that's what it amounts to.



We are already segregated ask a PPCLI what he thinks of an RCR. Segregation is a tool used to build esprit du corps and part of human nature. So is used properly as the military generally does it is very effective.



			
				milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Yeah, good idea.  After all, they would be better off with *their own kind* instead of mixing with the rest of us Canadians, right?



Do you think that way now when you look at a member of non-Eurpean decent? I wouldn't think so. My point is the CF is predominantly white male but you don't think of yourself in terms of 'us or them' (barring Regimental affiliations) you think of us all as Canadian soldiers.


Before this gets too carried away please realize this was just a thought I had.  I am not trying to elevate anyones blood pressure but I open for discussion. 

I want to win whatever we do and I believe we are not using one of our Canadas resources.


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## chrisf

medicineman said:
			
		

> For the rest of you who are wondering WTF??? - R22eR: Largely Francophone; PPCLI: Largely Redneck (  ); The RCR : a preponderance of Newfoundlanders and Maritimers which makes it difficult to communicate with either of the other 2 regiments (and their supporting units if they aren't from the areas aforementioned).



Then perhaps we should change the dress ethnically based on those criteria? Dress uniform with cow-boy hat and jeans for the PPCLI, large yellow rubber sou' westers for the RCR to match their scarlets, and.... well I don't know what sort of clothes is stereotypical in Quebec, perhaps they could just carry a slice of meat pie on parade?


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## Brutus

Task said:
			
		

> Good question. If it were a Coy size it should be easy enough to absorb in other near by units. Reg't size a tad more difficult. I honestly have not thought about it that hard. It was more of a fleeting thought after seeing the topic.
> 
> We are already segregated ask a PPCLI what he thinks of an RCR. Segregation is a tool used to build esprit du corps and part of human nature. So is used properly as the military generally does it is very effective.
> 
> Do you think that way now when you look at a member of non-Eurpean decent? I wouldn't think so. My point is the CF is predominantly white male but you don't think of yourself in terms of 'us or them' (barring Regimental affiliations) you think of us all as Canadian soldiers.
> 
> 
> Before this gets too carried away please realize this was just a thought I had.  I am not trying to elevate anyones blood pressure but I open for discussion.
> 
> I want to win whatever we do and I believe we are not using one of our Canadas resources.



Segregation based on race is not only just plain wrong, it's a violation of the Charter and the Human Rights Code. Besides, I was under the impression that when a soldier that deploys to a country of their ethnic origin, we change hide their connection to that country by changing their nametag (I seem to remember a post here somewhere referencing a troop of Yugo descent having a name tag with 'Smith' on it).


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## 57Chevy

Having a respected proportion of Foreign Canadians in any unit is ideal.
It represents the multicultural society that we live in. 
We are all responsible for the defence of our country


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## Task

Brutus said:
			
		

> Segregation based on race is not only just plain wrong, it's a violation of the Charter and the Human Rights Code. Besides, I was under the impression that when a soldier that deploys to a country of their ethnic origin, we change hide their connection to that country by changing their nametag (I seem to remember a post here somewhere referencing a troop of Yugo descent having a name tag with 'Smith' on it).



I would think it would have to be organized like scottish Regiments. Any may join but the attraction would likely be of the targeted ethnic culture. 

We changed their names for a different reason than what I am proposing. The Smith we used in Bosnia was used to spy on our interpreters to ensure they were relaying what we were saying to the population. I imagine the reason we did this (correct me if I am wrong) and not use them for terps was because we did not have enough of them.


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## Foxhound

medicineman said:
			
		

> PPCLI: Largely Redneck (  ); The RCR : a preponderance of Newfoundlanders and Maritimers which makes it difficult to communicate with either of the other 2 regiments


[off topic]
:warstory: Oh,"Down Home" isn't too difficult to learn, back in the day in London, the whole battalion spoke it fluently.  Even those that weren't from Down Home.  So fluently in fact, I seem to remember one spectacular dressing-down because the subject had answered, "Yes b'y" to a CSM.  I think the lad was from Ottawa.  Even the servers at Timmies on Oxford St. learned it, and spoke it.

I also remember a certain eight-fingered Sgt. in the INT Sect., re-badged in from The PPCLI, who grew to "appreciate" the phrase, "LOR' TUNNERIN'.. (fill in the blank)!!!"
[/off topic]


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## Dwight Schrute

Hell, half of 3PPCLI were Cape Bretoners, Newfies or from PEI when I was in. Good scrappers. You wanted a Caper on your side when things went sideways at the Tudor House (plugs always outnumbered us 5 to 1).


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## Infanteer

Petamocto said:
			
		

> Without the Reserve tribes I think we already would have gone to a much cheaper and easier system of numbered regiments like Australia has done.



This is probably the only statement in 4 pages actually worth discussing.


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## vonGarvin

> Without the Reserve tribes I think we already would have gone to a much cheaper and easier system of numbered regiments like Australia has done.





			
				Infanteer said:
			
		

> This is probably the only statement in 4 pages actually worth discussing.


As I recall from my Regimental Officers' Indoctrination Course in 1999, we were told how back during unification/integration, there was a move afoot to do just that; however, it wasn't the Reserve Tribes that "saved" us: it was the Royal 22e Régiment.  It was argued that without a unique "canadien" regiment, an aspect of our "dual" society would have been lost.  Let us not forget that in that time (~1970) a certain group of young Québecois youth were feeling "disenfranchised" and had a little club called the "FLQ".  Anyway, that's how it was explained to us.

As for having units such as "Queen's Own Rifles" on UN duties as neutral observers when on one side of the belligerants were elements of the UK Army, who also had as commander in chief a certain HM The Queen, the appearance was that they weren't neutral at all.

As for having regiments that are based on exclusivity, I'd rather have inclusivity, which we already do.  The Royal Canadian Regiment, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infanty and Royal 22e Régiment all have rich histories and traditions that reflect Canadian history.  The reserve units also have rich histories that reflect and comprise Canadian History.  

As stated elsewhere in this thread: the system may need tweaking, but when prioritised, it falls well after such things as "What APC will we need?" and "How can we train musketry?".  Besides, wouldn't an airborne highland regiment require special weighted kilts to avoid this?


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## medicineman

TV - you just ruined my morning coffee...and my optic discs...and almost my laptop.

MM


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## Crane Driver

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You know you've got 2 posts, and both take a shot at the puzzle palace workers. Obviously you have a bone to pick with the high numbers of staff people in Ottawa, so why not just start that topic, instead of throwing up a random post about Kilted RegF Infantry units to cover shots at NDHQ.



I found this forum by accident while looking for other information.

I am completely new to these types of forums / blogs? etc.. So, bear with my learning curve.   I seemed to remember a ‘study’ that was done a short while before I retired that suggested that there was a need to have significantly more ‘feet on the ground’.  After I posted my comment I did a little looking and found a paper from 1994.

1994 White Paper;
p. 75. The Government agrees with the Special Joint Committee that the land force must be expanded. Approximately 3,000 soldiers will be added to the army's field force. Additional resources will be provided through reductions in headquarters, restructuring of the three environments and a reduction in the size of the Reserves.

I have absolutely nothing against head office personnel. I finished my career as one. 

I am wondering if the 3000 soldiers were added to the field force?


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## Jarnhamar

Brother, you're suggesting the regular force form a regiment wearing something that's hugely identified as a reservist piece of kit?

They'd mutney


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## wildman0101

dpaterson,,
exactly what ethnic group was Canada pandering to in regard's to joining the war 
effort be it boer/ww1/ww2/korea.... Hmmmm. Scots/Welsh/Irish???????
If I remember my history(canadian) all of those ethnic group's were a part of the 
Common wealth. They were not pandered/asked/conscripted. they didn't have to 
be pandered to they were allready serving.
As for forming a Regiment (kilted) we dont have to. All we have to to is reactivate
a Regiment deactivated like oh say the Seaforth Highlander's(canada) or the 
Queen's Own Cameron Highlander's(Winnepeg) or or or .
redeye thanks.
blackadder1912 right on lad.
shamrock concur.
Have you ever wondered why the viking's gave up raiding said (kilted) land like 
Scotland and other (kilted) country's. We kicked thier collective ass.
In other word's we were more buserker than said viking's(hint)(hint) paterson.
scoty b


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## SeanNewman

Good points about them being commonwealth in the past.

We could make ethnic regiments in the past that catered to a certain group because those people were joining the Infantry in droves anyway so it made sense.

For those of you in the Reserves in a large city who think that is a representation of what Reg Force units are like and we're a massively diverse Infantry, I've got some news for you.

Despite equal and accommodating hiring practices, a Reg Force infantry unit is still made up of predominantly white males.  Yes you will still see a *few* women, black, and other non-whites, but the truth is what it is and without knowing the exact numbers I would not hesitate to bet it was over 90% white males.

What does this mean?  It means that the Infantry brand is something that white males buy into.  And if we start watering that down (the brand, I don't mean the race), it means we will lose our target market.

If we start messing around with units in order to make them more diverse, it would be like Chevrolet starting to market the Corvette toward old women instead of middle aged businessmen.  Do you know what would happen?  Yes, they might sell 100 more cars to old women, but they would lose 10,000 sales because their target market would see the commercials and think "wow, that's really not for me".


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## Haggis

Foxhound said:
			
		

> [off topic]
> :warstory: Oh,"Down Home" isn't too difficult to learn, back in the day in London, the whole battalion spoke it fluently.  Even those that weren't from Down Home.  So fluently in fact, I seem to remember one spectacular dressing-down because the subject had answered, "Yes b'y" to a CSM.  I think the lad was from Ottawa.  Even the servers at Timmies on Oxford St. learned it, and spoke it.
> 
> I also remember a certain eight-fingered Sgt. in the INT Sect., re-badged in from The PPCLI, who grew to "appreciate" the phrase, "LOR' TUNNERIN'.. (fill in the blank)!!!"
> [/off topic]



Laird Tunderin bye, yer right!  When I came home to Eastern Ontario on leave from "the First of the Finest", the only person who could understand me was my Irish Catholic mother.  All my friends though I was drunk!


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## Old Sweat

Haggis said:
			
		

> Laird Tunderin bye, yer right!  When I came home to Eastern Ontario on leave from "the First of the Finest", the only person who could understand me was my Irish Catholic mother.  All my friends though I was drunk!



Something similar. When I went to the RCA Depot for recruit training, I was put in a room with three Cape Bretoners. I still lapse into Cape speak on occasion. Back home on leave in the Niagara Peninsula, the only person who could catch everything I said was a girl in high school whose father had been a dental officer and her previous place of residence was Lincoln, NB.


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## a_majoor

We are actually moving the other way in the Reserve world; the three service battalions in 31 CBG have become a singular 31 SVC BN. 

It isn't too hard to imagine the two tiny reserve armoured "regiments" becoming 31 Armoured Regt, two tiny artillery "regiments" melding into 31 Field RCA and the six company sized infantry regiments scattered about SW Ontario becoming 31 Light Infantry Bn (Motor Infantry Bn if you are ambitious).

Given the actual numbers of troops being fielded, this would rationalize the numbers of headquarters and devote more resources to the armoury floor (in the ideal world anyway).

I am pretty sure this idea was seriously considered in the 1990's, and before we hear the "we will loose our traditions/people will quit" arguments, think about the turnover in the average Reserve unit. In five years, something like 80% of all the people who were in at the time of the change will be gone, and the majority of soldiers will think "A Coy, 31 Light Infantry Bn (Essex and Kent) is the normal and natural state of affairs.


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## Infanteer

YES!


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## OldSolduer

What about the 38 Mess Tin Repair Company? >


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## a_majoor

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> What about the 38 Mess Tin Repair Company? >



I'm pretty sure they are in LFWA


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