# Halifax Class vs Iroquois Class in rough seas



## S McPhee (2 Jun 2006)

Just wanted to get some feedback from those experienced sailors out there about the differences between the Halifax Class vs Iroquois Class in rough seas?  I've heard the Iroquois Class seems more "top heavy" and seems to roll more?


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## jollyjacktar (2 Jun 2006)

Yes the 280's are more top heavy and do tend to have heavy slow rolls from side to side.  The CPF's in the other hand like to bounce up and down.  But I am told they are nothing compaired to MCDVs with have the sailing characteristics of a cork.  The Tankers on the other hand generally are pretty heavy and tend to ride the quitest of the three.


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## Heatwave (2 Jun 2006)

No doubt that the ship movement affects everyone differently (and a lucky few, not at all).  The difference to myself was quite notable.  I was posted on a CPF, and was in a prolonged "Fishpats" that got up to a sea-state 8.  I was able to work, albeit with a bit of an uncomfortable feeling.  However, I was doing "Salty Dips" on a 280 and it only got up to Sea-state 5.......in which case I was sent to my rack as I was nothing but ballast at the time.  There is a definite difference and I believe each type will take some getting used to.  

Chimo!


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## Navalsnpr (2 Jun 2006)

As the 280's are considered top heavy, there is a distinct difference between the two ships in high seas. I've been in sea state 5 (Beaufort # 6) on a 280 and in Sea state 9 (Beaufort # 12) on a CPF. I can say that the movement of a 280's appears slower than a CPF as it is a larger mass to move (approx 400 tonnes), however due to the fact that a 280 has a larger side profile, that profile acts as a sail and wind tends to effect it easier than a CPF.

I guess the best ride would be the tanker... she sits low and rides comfortably. The worst ride would be a MCDV, usually compared to a cork in the water..


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## navymich (2 Jun 2006)

Navalsnipr said:
			
		

> The worst ride would be a MCDV, usually compared to a cork in the water..



I concur with that one!  I've had people on the heavies tell me that they just shake their heads when they sail with us and wonder how we are staying upright.  Not fun at all. 

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/index_e.asp?newsID=2328&id=4647&cat=4&volID=1&issID=21&newsType=1

*edited to add link to article on MCDV "slamming effect"


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## BEEFY06 (3 Jun 2006)

Navalsnipr said:
			
		

> As the 280's are considered top heavy, there is a distinct difference between the two ships in high seas. I've been in sea state 5 (Beaufort # 6) on a 280 and in Sea state 9 (Beaufort # 12) on a CPF. I can say that the movement of a 280's appears slower than a CPF as it is a larger mass to move (approx 400 tonnes), however due to the fact that a 280 has a larger side profile, that profile acts as a sail and wind tends to effect it easier than a CPF.
> I guess the best ride would be the tanker... she sits low and rides comfortably. The worst ride would be a MCDV, usually compared to a cork in the water..



Navalsnipr is totally right about the 280's, plus it doesn't help that a 280's rudder is way bigger then that of a CPF...Hence it been so slooooowwww to adjust to sea state....


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## SoF (3 Jun 2006)

I appologize if this is a stupid question; how likely are you to hurl on your first time on a ship, especialy the mcdv.


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## FSTO (3 Jun 2006)

I have never been sea-sick (except on a PB (HMCS CHIGNECTO) after run ashore) and I firmly beleive that it is all in your head (care to flame me now!). 
My advice to you is don't worry about it, if it happens it happens.

I remember a Phase IV CSE in 91. We were on YUKON and leaving for the south pacific. The last line wasn't even inboard and he was in his rack sick. Next time any of us saw him was when he was carried off the ship in Tahiti to be sent home. He was only about 120 lbs when he came on, there wasn't much left of him when he left.


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## navymich (3 Jun 2006)

SoF said:
			
		

> I appologize if this is a stupid question; how likely are you to hurl on your first time on a ship, especialy the mcdv.



East coast?  From what I hear, most likely, but don't quote me on that, I am only going by what I have been told.  West coast? Depends on the weather.

But like FSTO said, don't worry about it.  It happens to most people at some point.  You will probably feel weird the first time you go to sea, just because it is so different.  And if some nasty weather is going to hit, well, that's what you have a Navigator for.  He is looking at the weather usually 36 hours in advance, so you are given a heads-up and can take what meds you need.  Don't be embarassed if you get sick, although the old hands will give you a hard time  ;D.  You will eventually figure out what will help you get through it.  Above all else, keep the fluids in you (water or gatorade or such), and keep eating, even if it is only toast or crackers.


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## BEEFY06 (3 Jun 2006)

FSTO said:
			
		

> I have never been sea-sick (except on a PB (HMCS CHIGNECTO) after run ashore) and I firmly believe that it is all in your head (care to flame me now!).
> My advice to you is don't worry about it, if it happens it happens.



I also agree with what FSTO says. You got to remember that if it works for one person it may not work for you. Everyone has there own "ways" of dealling with it, personally I'm one of those lucky guys that don't get "sea sick"(knock on wood) so i cant really write on a subject that i have no experience on. But i will say good luck with your adventures.....


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## Torlyn (3 Jun 2006)

I haven't as of yet spent much time on our big boats, but I've done a pile of sailing...  Aside from being insanely jealous from those buggers who don't get sea sick ( :nana: ) just be ready for it.  (ie don't wait until you're chucking up on the bridge sans bag before you say anything) I've barfed up my fair share of toenails in Jan de Fuca and on the west side of the island.  You just grin and bear it.  And by all means, do NOT be leaning over the sailboat, windward side, stern.  I can guarantee the skipper will NOT be happy with what you send him.    Good luck!

T


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## Sub_Guy (3 Jun 2006)

:skull:    The best ride is a deep one!    :skull:

I caught a hint of west coast sailing vs east coast sailing conditions in a previous post.  I have sailed on all classes of ships (sadly no MCDV time).
Rough weather is rough weather, all ships move, I remember leaving Pearl on the Protecteur and having the upper decks out of bounds for 2 days, it was really wicked out there and the ship was really rockin!
I also recall heading to an area off norway on the Iroquois because a Norwegian submarine had failed to check in, that was an amazing go waves were easily breaking over the bridge, we ended up breaking some gear and got 2 weeks in Plymouth!

I have seen people get seasick going to Rosefest (on a river)  

Personally I also beleive it is all in your head, I have never been seasick, and I enjoy the rough weather when I am awake, but if it is too rough and you are trying to sleep it is a pain in the ass, not to mention getting thrown around in the shower that sucks too!  Working on the bridge when it is rough compares to an amusement ride (ok its not wonderland, but it is fun)


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## jollyjacktar (5 Jun 2006)

SoF, if you are going to sea you might experience sea sickness.  Some guys do, some badly and some don't feel a thing.  They have good medicine nowadays including a Gravol patch which seem to work well for those who need it.  If you are given some by the Doc for use, do make use of it before you leave the jetty.  I was given pills before my first trip and was told to take it if I felt the need.  Unfortunately I did not take it until I was sick and by then nothing but nothing was staying in my stomach long enough to do any good.  Thankfully that only lasted for the first day and a half out and has not been a problem for me since.  It was however an experience I don't wish to have again.  Shooting me would have been a mercy.  Hopefully you will have a good trip when the time comes.  Good Luck!!


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## Navy_Blue (5 Jun 2006)

I know guys who in all seriousness cannot cross the brow without his vision going blurry and feeling week (re muster chronic sea sick).  Some people can't sail at all.  Personally I get sick once, go to my rack wake up and my body has normally adjusted.  But if I get some real up and down action I don't go past frame 22 and find it most comfortable back aft on the CPF.  I can take side to side but up and down is not cool for me.   :-X


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## x-grunt (5 Jun 2006)

Sub_Guy said:
			
		

> Personally I also beleive it is all in your head, I have never been seasick,



Ha! That brings back memories. Like you, when younger I never got sick at all. (I was in Algonquin and Assiniboine.)  I was a smug SOB when guys went green and hurled all over the place. I was cocky and proud of my stout constitution. After several years on the hard, I started rec sailing. Surprise! I get all woozy and weird feeling now if it's bouncy out there. If I'm out for a few days then I can adjust. I still don't puke, but I get to the point I think I might. Nasty feeling.
I've learned you can stress yourself out and feel worse, and you can do some things to minimize the effect but if your prone you can't really prevent it.

Maybe If I was back on a heavy I'd be fine, but in a small craft I have to hang my head and humbly admit I get the "mal de mer". God help me if I ever end up on an MCDV...


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## navymich (5 Jun 2006)

x-grunt said:
			
		

> God help me if I ever end up on an MCDV...


I see by your profile that you are a MARS applicant.  Stand by for MCDV's then for your MARS IV training.  Best bet?  Get used to working with gravol-induced medicine head.  Unfortunately, there is hardly any downtime for the students onboard, especially if they are sick.


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## Navalsnpr (6 Jun 2006)

Although there are those who are diagnosed as “Chronic-Sea Sick”, some others do get sick depending on the current sea situation.  I, as I knock on wood, have never been sea sick in my life and normally I eat more as the Beauford scale increases. As for the rest of you who aren’t Chronic and don’t fall into the never get sick, there are two important personnel onboard, they are the weather-witch and the doc. The weather-witch will be able to get you enough warning so that you can see the doc and get your Bonine®, or whatever they are issuing these days. If you don’t get the meds into your system well in advance 8-12 hours, then you will of course become sick and I'm sorry to say that it was probably 99% preventable.

It is sooooo funny to see the line ups in front of sick bay after people have hurled, when it could have been prevented by seeing him 12 hours prior…


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## Inch (6 Jun 2006)

I'm one of the ones that doesn't get sea sick. Though I have yet to see any really good sea state on a 280 (most we got last month was 3 degrees pitch and 8 degrees roll), I really didn't notice a difference below decks with how the ship felt. The only thing I really noticed was the constant list the ship had with a good strong wind. 

On the other hand, my navigator threw up and the other co-pilot was green for the first 3 days (at anchor!).  ;D


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## Messmom (6 Jun 2006)

Best ride is the tanker full of fuel and stores ( different story almost empty of fuel, sea state 6, phase 5 of work ups and smoke pots billowing away ), but I do like the ride of the CPF, handy for getting to sleep  

Now all the Nav archs have to do is to remember to put the bunks athwart ship instead of stem to stern. Too damned easy to come flying out of your cart on a good roll.  ;D


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## Naval Boarding Party (7 Jun 2006)

This one time we were leaving Newfie John. It was blowing a gale. (The sea was angry that day my friends). When we popped out of the harbour, we heaved over to Stbd and stayed that way until we reached the banks. A good steady, sustained 30 - 40 degrees.

The Tribals are taller and have a little more of a profile to catch the wind on the beam. CPF's don't have as much as a profile and are lighter. Though, I don't ever recall a CPF heaved over like the Tribals.

MCDV...don't know and don't care. Thought the topic was Halifax Class vs Iroquois Class in rough seas.

Cheers


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## Navalsnpr (7 Jun 2006)

Naval Boarding Party said:
			
		

> When we popped out of the harbour, we heaved over to Stbd and stayed that way until we reached the banks. A good steady, sustained 30 - 40 degrees.



I think just about all ships have their Marine Clinometer marked with a pencil at the largest angle achieved. 







STJ's was somewhere in the low 40 degrees.


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## navymich (7 Jun 2006)

Naval Boarding Party said:
			
		

> MCDV...don't know and don't care. Thought the topic was Halifax Class vs Iroquois Class in rough seas.



Nice attitude.  Guess you forgot that we are all part of the same big family.  I agree some posts go off-topic, but to me, MCDVs could (and should) be added in to this to give an all-round view.  And with you working at an NRD, I would hope that you would care enough to learn about the MCDVs.  I am sure that the crew there are interested in your wealth of knowledge, how about being a part of theirs.


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## Naval Boarding Party (7 Jun 2006)

You seem a little upset. Maybe you should vent your frustration under your own topic and see if like minded people share your view. I have seen your posts and it smacks of West Coast, Reserve infeiority complex. You know my opinion of the Naval Reserves. Your attack is unwarrented and out of line. No need to make accusations of attitudes! I simply pointed out the topic. Stick to the topic.

ZBM2
BT
AR


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## Colin Parkinson (7 Jun 2006)

We had a guy in the Coast Guard who got seasick almost every trip, we called him Duke the Puke, he hung in there and now is a Captain. So it can be done. We also had to put people ashore as they were so sick that they would have died if they stayed aboard. The worst vessel we had were the R class, 100’ long and responding to a SAR call off of Cape St James in winter time was really bad, literally walking on the bulkheads. Everybody was sick and not helped by the smell of fuel that was sloshing through the vents and fill pipes.

When we were out in same vessel searching for the CF-18 that went down off of Brooks peninsula on Vancouver Island. A Lab hoisted some poor Air Force buggers from Cold Lake onto our vessel. It wasn’t blowing bad but a nasty swell was still running. After we managed to get them on deck (without breaking them to badly) they immediately hurled and spent the rest of the search lying in the scuppers. Poor guys, imagine waking up at a nice comfy air force base in the morning, dangled from a helo onto a tiny, tossing ship and turn your guts out by late afternoon.

Take graval  early as it tastes really bad on the way back up. I also agree that some boats affect different people differently a guy that could handle storms in a large ship, might lose it in a moderate blow on a smaller ship. There are very few people that won’t get sea-sick, one of the best cures I have found is sticking the person onto the wheel.


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## navymich (7 Jun 2006)

Naval Boarding Party said:
			
		

> You seem a little upset. Maybe you should vent your frustration under your own topic and see if like minded people share your view. I have seen your posts and it smacks of West Coast, Reserve infeiority complex. You know my opinion of the Naval Reserves. Your attack is unwarrented and out of line. No need to make accusations of attitudes! I simply pointed out the topic. Stick to the topic.
> 
> ZBM2
> BT
> AR



Upset?  You haven't begun to see the "upset" me yet.  Although it's fast approaching that, especially with you hiding behind opsigs to belittle me.  And yes, I know that you gave me an "out" too, but guess what, I'm answering anyway.

You don't care to have MCDVs talked about in this thread, but apparently, since you didn't mention them, it is okay to talk about the tanker (don't see that in the subject) or even sea-sickness (nope, don't see that in the subject either).  MCDVs were brought up in this thread a week ago, and by a regular force member at that.  In the span of the week, it has been touched on by others too, and nobody else seems concerned that it is in the thread.  But I'm sure you will reply soon to tell all of them to "stick to the topic" as well.  And hey, when you're done with this thread, I'm sure there are many others that have fallen off track and could use your assistance too. 

You could have left your opinion of MCDVs completely out of your reply, but your comment about "don't care" was uncalled for.  Attitude?  Yes, I have one for sure and I'm sure many others will agree with me on that.  Tough shit if you don't like it.  I see things as I do, and say what is on my mind (although, this time, it required alot of editing).  As for my "complex" that I supposedly have?  Not even going to get into that, because I enjoy being a member of these boards, and if I continue on with the tone that I can see myself aiming towards, that won't be anymore.


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## Sub_Guy (7 Jun 2006)

NBP INT QBF

Opsigs are gay, even worse when used in chat. (Both Civie, and military chat <--sametime)

This rough sea stories are all the same and the discussions always end up the same you get guys talking about what is worse, or which guy had it the roughest!!  

There are stories of the Montreal losing a gun turret, "perfect storm stories", hull slamming, acoustic tiles getting torn off, railings getting torn off, I have even witnessed a HF whip that had to be torn off because of rough weather, (IRO strong resolve 98 we had to tie a line to it and tear it off with the rhib)
And as always there is some guy who sailed on the MCDV who pipes up to tell his/her side and immediately gets stomped because MCDV's aren't real warships! *note* right navymich?! *elbow nudge* >

Rough weather is rough weather, we have all been there, if it is really rough being on a 280 or CPF isn't going to mean sh!t, but I will tell you that I wouldn't want to be on a MCDV.  Like I said before "go deep".......D49........I know this is going against the thread, but a submarine on the surface in rough weather has all of you beat!  D35  :skull:


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## Inch (7 Jun 2006)

Naval Boarding Party and navymich, back to your corners. This is ridiculous. I have said "I don't know and I don't care" about a million times in my life. You're arguing over nothing. Drop it.

Consider this a friendly nudge, next time it'll be Verbals all around.

Inch
Army.ca Staff


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## Naval Boarding Party (8 Jun 2006)

Okay, okay. MCDV's....let me say a thing or two about Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels.

Ahem...Never sailed in them. Don't ever want to. My hat goes off to those that do. I understand that they are constantly used as training platforms and that it must be very difficult to greet new trainees, spend all your time and effort pumping out a better Sailor every trip and then never see many of them again. All that work with little opportunity to benefit and harness the skills of all the Sailors that you train. Been there myself a few times and have have even trained a number of Naval Reservists on Heavys. Admirable without argument.  

Sub Guy. R D35. D36 Submariners Rock! :skull:

In my opinion. The Submarines win hands down. We know that they can go deep and get off the roof but having heard first hand accounts from many a Submariner, they rock and roll pretty good when the sail goes through the roof. (When they surface) They don't have much of a choice when the batteries get low and the air gets a little stale. (Oxygen candles can only give so much relief)

There you go folks, Submarines...unless we want to start counting assalt boats and Ridgid Hull Inflatable Boats (RHIBS) and Zodiacs.

Cheers


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## Ex-Dragoon (10 Jun 2006)

Having sailed on 280s and 330s I definitely prefer the ride on the CPF.


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## ACIGSkyler (10 Jun 2006)

I only have Yukon and Algonquin (when it went West) experience to draw upon. When I arrived on the Yukon after my 3's course we set out for AWUPs to W601 in January. Everyone was saying how bad it would be, how sick I would be..etc. but never got seasick, ever. But also seen guys get sick as soon as we slipped.

The worst ride I ever had was on Algonquin when we left Diego to come home. Because of a storm it was decided to just race to the Straits. We had big swells cross beam so got used to making myself as flat as possible in my rack. According to my wife I still at times sleep like that (hard to describe but it worked). The day after we got to Vic I met my mom downtown and while waiting to cross the street I 'lurched'....had some odd looks but explained to her that after basically a month at sea didn't have my land legs back  ;D

I really think getting seasick or not is something your born with, and there are degrees of it....outright hurling to just a headache, tiredness..that sort of thing. The upside is if you don't get seasick, the meal lines are very short.

Court


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## Inch (11 Jun 2006)

NavyGirl280 said:
			
		

> My husband has been aboard the 280 his entire naval career. Everytime he sails, he wears a sea-sick patch. Not too sure how he would be without it    As stated many times before, the 280's are "top-heavy" thus making the sail a bit "interesting" for those who need to sew on their sea legs. Nevertheless, the ship is a grand one with a fine crew at that  ;D
> 
> Take care
> 
> S.Bradbury



Funny you say that, on this past trip there was one of the pay clerks with that patch on. She came for a ride with us on the Sea King and of course was questioned what the patch was for. She said sea sickness but that she had never sailed without it so really didn't know if she got sea sick or not. Seems to be the case with a lot of newbies on the ships, on with the patch before we slip and they never really know if they're medicating for nothing or if they really need it.


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## Navalsnpr (11 Jun 2006)

Some people do medicate all the time and don't truely know if they require it or not.

For those people I'd advise that if you are going to sea and the weather is going to be nice, forgo the medication and see if you really need it or not.


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## Naval Boarding Party (11 Jun 2006)

If I had to choose between Destroyer or Frigate. I would have to say Frigate. The Frigates don't have 13 mess! Gotta love the small mess decks on the Frigates. A whole lot easier to get around safely on the Frigates too.

There are a couple of "Death Racks" on the Destroyers. Anyone who has been down there can agree that if the action alarm goes off, you have a difficult time getting out of your rack, getting your action dress on and quickly extracating the mess to to your station.  I have more than a few curse words were muttered trying to navigate fuel pumps and hatch combings on your way of of 12 or 13 mess on the ATH or IRO.


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## Colin Parkinson (13 Jun 2006)

ACIGSkyler said:
			
		

> I only have Yukon and Algonquin (when it went West) experience to draw upon. When I arrived on the Yukon after my 3's course we set out for AWUPs to W601 in January. Everyone was saying how bad it would be, how sick I would be..etc. but never got seasick, ever. But also seen guys get sick as soon as we slipped.
> 
> The worst ride I ever had was on Algonquin when we left Diego to come home. Because of a storm it was decided to just race to the Straits. We had big swells cross beam so got used to making myself as flat as possible in my rack. According to my wife I still at times sleep like that (hard to describe but it worked). The day after we got to Vic I met my mom downtown and while waiting to cross the street I 'lurched'....had some odd looks but explained to her that after basically a month at sea didn't have my land legs back  ;D
> 
> ...



They took a bunch of us Pongo's out on the Yukon, they made sure they stuck us in the forward mess, quite the feeling that you got with the rise and fall of the bow.


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## Springroll (13 Jun 2006)

My husband spent 4 years aboard a 280 out west and 2 years aboard a 330 out east.
He gets really sick, almost to the point of being chronic...well chronic on a 280. 
He actually prefers the way the 330's move...for obvious reasons. 

Anyways, he has tried everything out there available to combat his sea sickness and the only thing he has found that has worked are these things called sea bands. His mother saw them in the states somewhere and picked them up for him...and he loves them. 

Sea Bands

Might be worth a shot for any of you out there that do get real sick.


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