# Pay Scale Regular Force - Do we have also a pay scale per day for extra days?



## armyone (28 Jul 2014)

Good morning,

I know we get a monthly pay scale (2800$ per month at the beginning) I am trying to compare this to when I was in the reserve, I was paid 7 days if I had work 7 days in the week. What is the difference in the regular force ? Is the 2800$ based on 5 days of work per week and you get paid extra if you work more in term of days (I know we don't get paid overtime on a specific day (working 16 hours instead of 8 hours per example). To make this clearer, do we get paid extra money if we work more than the 5 days a week (30 days in the month instead of 20 per example) ?

Thank you


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## Teager (28 Jul 2014)

No, you do not get paid more for working extra days, or hours.


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## Haggis (28 Jul 2014)

The easiest way to describe Reg F pay is that you are a salaried member.  You get the same amount each two weeks whether you work 37.5 or 60 hours per week.

Reserve Force pay is on a "per job" basis.  You don't work on Monday, you don't get paid for Monday.


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## dapaterson (28 Jul 2014)

Haggis said:
			
		

> Reserve Force pay is on a "per job" basis.  You don't work on Monday, you don't get paid for Monday.



Incorrect.

Reserve pay depends on the class of service.  Class B & C are paid for all days in their period of service.  Class A is paid only for attendance.  Since Reserve A&B payscales are calculated on a calendar day basis, class A reservists are shortchanged about 40%.


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## Monsoon (28 Jul 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Incorrect.
> 
> Reserve pay depends on the class of service.  Class B & C are paid for all days in their period of service.  Class A is paid only for attendance.  Since Reserve A&B payscales are calculated on a calendar day basis, class A reservists are shortchanged about 40%.


Well, only if you're working eight-hour class A days. The half-day most reservists are paid to attend a training evening is typically about three hours long, and a full-day of pay can be for as little as six hours of work. So I guess it would be fairer to say that class A reservists "can be" shortchanged about 40% (and even then, only if you compare with Reg F/class B/C members who only keep office hours).


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## 421_434_226 (28 Jul 2014)

Don't forget that the Reg Force gets paid twice per month not every 2 weeks, thus receiving 24 pay cheques vice 26 per year. Actually the paperwork works out as paid once per month, deductions applied and remainder divided into 2 pays.


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## Haggis (28 Jul 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Incorrect.
> 
> Reserve pay depends on the class of service.  Class B & C are paid for all days in their period of service.  Class A is paid only for attendance.  Since Reserve A&B payscales are calculated on a calendar day basis, class A reservists are shortchanged about 40%.



Thanks for clarifying my overly simplistic answer.


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## ModlrMike (28 Jul 2014)

There is no cash-in-hand payment for extra days. There is an overtime factor added to our base pay rate, along with the military factor and others that I currently forget. In summary, you won't get extra pay per-se, because overtime is already calculated and rolled into your base pay.


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## Master Corporal Steven (28 Jul 2014)

Good Day,

Every member of the regular force signs a contract for X number of years. A member of the regular force works 7 days a week 365 days a year and is paid a salary for their service to Canada. Generally a Monday-Friday work week or shift work depending on occupation and posting is adhered to. However situation dictates and when on operation or exercise they are working 24hours a day until their duty is done. 

Class A Primary Reserve works if they want to on the days offered by their primary reserve unit and must maintain a minimum attendance not to be put on the Non-Effective Strength list. There pay is based on a half day (Less than 6 hours) or full day’s pay (More than 6 hours)

Class B Primary Reserve works for the length of the contract signed in the location of the employment for their contract and are given 2 annual leave days for every 30 worked. A class B contract greater than 180 days entitles the Primary Reservist full medical & dental benefits as well as paying into the reg force pension plan. The rate of pay is still based on a full day’s pay in accordance with the primary reserve pay scale every day of their contract including weekends. 

Class C Primary reserves are paid for the length of the contract signed at the same rate as regular force members.


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## Monsoon (28 Jul 2014)

Master Corporal Steven said:
			
		

> Class A Primary Reserve works if they want to on the days offered when ordered to by their primary reserve unit and must maintain a minimum attendance not to be put on the Non-Effective Strength list. There pay is based on a half day (Less than 6 hours) or full day’s pay (More than 6 hours)


FTFY - ref. QR&O 9.04, para 2: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-01/chapter-chapitre-009-eng.asp


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## Tibbson (28 Jul 2014)

The reg force pay scale is based on a 24/7 work week.  If you work less then that its a bonus.


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## TCM621 (30 Jul 2014)

There is however a system where you can get extra time off if you work outside of normal working hours _of your unit[/]. In other words, if your unit is in the field for three weeks straight don't expect to get all those weekends off. However if you normally work 9-5 and end up working until 10, you could get a ETO day (or whatever they call it now). Also, if you are in the field/ away from home you can get 2 extras off for every month you are way. These are all at the discretion of the CO IIRC and not strictly speaking entitlements.

* the preceding are based on memory and may be incorrect. Consult the leave policy manual and your CoC for clarification._


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## PuckChaser (30 Jul 2014)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> Also, if you are in the field/ away from home you can get 2 extras off for every month you are way.



Short. You can get short days. Extras are if you were a bag of hammers in the field.


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## dapaterson (30 Jul 2014)

The CF leave manual details what you may and may not receive prior to any absence on course or deployment, in terms of pre and post deployment or TD leave.


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## George Wallace (30 Jul 2014)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> ............. However if you normally work 9-5 and end up working until 10, you could get a ETO day (or whatever they call it now). A



It is CTO, and although it is done, it is illegal.


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## TCM621 (30 Jul 2014)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Short. You can get short days. Extras are if you were a bag of hammers in the field.


I ment extra days off. I am sadly very familiar with extras. Lol


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## TCM621 (30 Jul 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It is CTO, and although it is done, it is illegal.



Illegal? Really? Huh. I haven't looked in awhile but I guess I need to.


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## Eye In The Sky (30 Jul 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It is CTO, and although it is done, it is illegal.



That is one name for it.  Another is EDO (Earned Day Off) and is quite 'legal', as detailed in our Sqn Orders, along with NWD (Non Working Days).


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## Pat in Halifax (31 Jul 2014)

I am not an RMS clerk and admit I could be wrong but I recall before Pre and Post DSL came out we tried doing this after deployments and could only authorize '48s'; two days short. I was told by a clerk on my last leadership course that CTO/EDO.... are forms of short leave and can only be given 2 per month IAW the directive. That said, I am not sure how the authorization for 'special' leave is hierarchied. I would think with local ROs/Sqn Os etc, the Leave Manual published under the authority of the CDS trumps all...no?

Vern, can you chime in?

As for what your 'days pay' is worth, cash in a days accrued - after taxes, it's pretty depressing!
We all do this in one form or another; LS XXXX works this evening so we will let him go at noon tomorrow but if the shit hit the fan tomorrow afternoon at 1400 when LS XXXX was found in a ditch under his car when by rights, he should have been at work....?


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## Crispy Bacon (31 Jul 2014)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> It is CTO, and although it is done, it is illegal.



What do you mean illegal? I've never seen a reference for CTO, but I have seen short leave (max 2 days) used plenty of times.


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## Pusser (31 Jul 2014)

Types of leave are all clearly defined in the Leave Manual, which draws its authority from QR&O Chapt 16.  There are many types of leave, but for the purposes of this thread, I'll stick to the common ones:

Annual:  20, 25 or 30 working days per year, depending on years of service

Weekend:  Normally, everyone in the CF is granted Weekend Leave unless required for duty.  COs *may* grant short leave to personnel who are required to work on weekends

Statutory Holidays(Stat):  Normally, everyone in the CF is entitled to 11 Stat Holidays per year (10 federal, one provincial).  Again, if required to work on a stat, COs may grant Short Leave in lieu.

Short:  COs may grant up to 48 hours Short Leave per calendar month.  All CTO, EDO or whatever else you want to call it are actually variations of Short Leave.  Historically, accounting for this has been poor.

Special:  This is much misunderstood.  Special Leave can only be granted on the authority of the CDS or the Minister.  Those types of Special Leave that have been pre-approved are clearly defined in the Leave Manual.  The most common type of Special Leave that everyone gets is the two days Special everyone gets for Christmas/New Year's.  Other types include Special Leave for Community Affairs.  A CO cannot simply grant "Special Leave" when he has no other type of leave at his disposal.  It must meet the definitions provided in the Leave Manual.

Notwithstanding what unit orders may say, there is no such thing as CTO or EDO.  If this is granted, it must be considered a form of Short Leave.

I won't get into Rehabilitation Leave, Sick Leave, etc.


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## George Wallace (31 Jul 2014)

Crispy Bacon said:
			
		

> What do you mean illegal? I've never seen a reference for CTO, but I have seen short leave (max 2 days) used plenty of times.



"Compulsory Time Off".  I saw that being used mostly among the "Truckers".  It was 'bucksheesh' days given to them by their supervisors.  There is no Leave Regulation on it.  These were not recorded as no Lve Passes were made.


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## DAA (31 Jul 2014)

CTO, EDO, ETO, none of them are "recognized" types of leave and for the most part are considered to be either "short leave" or "weekend leave" for recording purposes.  If you have been given "CTO (Compensatory Time Off)" and that leave pass hits your Leave Records, good luck during an Audit.

Unit CO's can grant Special Leave (Special Leave Relocation), see Art 5.11.01 in the Leave Manual and not just for Postings.  Have a closer look at Chapter 5, Annex B, Table 2, it's pretty clear to some but misunderstood by many.  Attached Postings and Other Status (including Operations, Trg Exercises, Career courses and Incremental Taskings).

Absence of 14 days or more but less than 30 - "1 day special"
Absence for 31 days or more - "2 days special"
Immediately upon return to home unit from duty for a period of 14 days or more - "2 days special"


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## Fishbone Jones (31 Jul 2014)

There's already a huge, recent, convoluted thread on the "working overtime" policies. No need to start another.

The OP has their answer.

This thread has already diverted away from it's intended direction. Time to go.

Locked.

---Staff--


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