# Help with pull ups



## dutchie936 (29 Sep 2007)

Okay,I've searched this subject,and found lots of answers,but none that answer my specific question.While I was training during my application process.I worked hard on push ups,sit ups, and chin ups.But once I was sworn in,and in regiment,we are doing only pull ups.
Now I can do 5 or 6 clean chin ups,but when I tried a pull up,I couldn't even do one.
So my question is.All the feedback on improving pull ups is to just keep doing them.But if I can't even raise myself once,how can I do this.
I've been doing negative reps in the hopes of waking up those specific muscle groups.But if anyone out there has had,and overcome a similar problem,any advice you can share would be great.
I am a large frame man(6'3",220lbs)and it is very tough to watch guys literally half my size doing these exercises almost effortlessly.

 Thanks in advance for your help on this matter.


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## The_Falcon (29 Sep 2007)

Just keep doing what you are doing.  There really is no other easy way to get better at pull ups, I am coming from experience here, 18 months ago I could barely eke out 1 pull up, just kept at it (and doing negatives) and now I can do approximately 15 from a dead hang.


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## Jacqueline (29 Sep 2007)

My personal trainer tells me to work on the back, shoulders, arms like a crazy man in order to achieve this one pull up. (I can't even do one pullup even though I can do 7 clean chinups from a dead hang.) He also tells me to work hard on the chin ups because it supports the pull up. Hope that helps.


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## The_Falcon (29 Sep 2007)

Miss J said:
			
		

> My personal trainer tells me to work on the back, shoulders, arms like a crazy man in order to achieve this one pull up. (I can't even do one pullup even though I can do 7 clean chinups from a dead hang.) He also tells me to work hard on the chin ups because it supports the pull up. Hope that helps.



What your trainer "SHOULD" be doing is getting you to work on PULL UPS, through negative pull-ups and assisted pull ups (I presume you are working out in a gym, and any halfway decent gym will have an assisted pull up machine).  Working out the muscle groups in isolation is NOT beneficial (directly) to improving perforance in a exercise that requires the co-ordination of several muscle goups.  While you may see strength gains in those exercises you do for your chest/back/arms, you will see little if any improvement in your pull-up count.


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## Munxcub (29 Sep 2007)

+1 Hatchet.

Also, along with negatives (these should be done as slow as possible... agonizingly slow) You can do jumping pullups, flexed arm hangs, body rows (on a lower bar, think upside down pushup) If doing body rows, keep raising the bar until you're vertical. Can do these on a power rack with a barbell if you have access to one.

You could also get jump stretch bands, essentially a giant rubber band used for assisting. This is what I use for my wife.


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## The_Falcon (29 Sep 2007)

Ah yes, forgot about inverted (body) rows, those are good as well.


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## Jacqueline (30 Sep 2007)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> What your trainer "SHOULD" be doing is getting you to work on PULL UPS, through negative pull-ups and assisted pull ups.
> 
> 
> Course he gets me to practise PULL UPS, it's the only way to do pull ups. In addition to practising pull ups, these exercises you say, I will do. They sound good. However my PT does help me with assisted pull ups. When I couldn't even do 1 chin up, back, shoulder, arm, ab,  workouts (with weights) definetely gave me a huge boost. Maybe it's different with pullups, I'll try bodyrows and what not.
> ...


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## dutchie936 (30 Sep 2007)

Great advice.Thanks a million.I will keep plugging away at it.


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## undeadnik (25 Oct 2007)

2 questions for you guys wahts the difference between a pull up and a chin up? and what do u mean by negative pull ups?


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## Lumber (25 Oct 2007)

undeadnik said:
			
		

> 2 questions for you guys wahts the difference between a pull up and a chin up? and what do u mean by negative pull ups?



Chin ups use a supinated grip, while pull ups use a pronated grip. The difference is, with a pronated grip, if you were doing the pull-up, you would be looking at the backs of your hands, while with a supinated grip, you would see the bar, with the palms of your hands facing you on the opposite side of the bar.

Also, I find Lat-Pull downs are excellent at developing your latimus dorsi (hence the name), which is the primary muscle used in doing pull-ups. http://www.healthstylesexercise.com/catalog/images/Body-Solid-G1S-Lat-Pulldown.jpg


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## Lumber (25 Oct 2007)

undeadnik said:
			
		

> 2 questions for you guys wahts the difference between a pull up and a chin up? and what do u mean by negative pull ups?



Here:

Supinated Grip: 
http://www.beastskills.com/chin%20grip.jpg

Pronated Grip:
http://www.beastskills.com/pull%20grip.jpg


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## The_Falcon (29 Oct 2007)

undeadnik said:
			
		

> what do u mean by negative pull ups?



You perform the "negative" or elongation portion of the exercise.  So basically you step up, jump up whatever the case may be to get into the "positive" or contracted portion of the excercise (head/chin over the bar), and then you very slowly lower yourself to the ground, and repeat.


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## DVessey (29 Oct 2007)

NCdt Lumber said:
			
		

> Also, I find Lat-Pull downs are excellent at developing your latimus dorsi (hence the name), which is the primary muscle used in doing pull-ups. http://www.healthstylesexercise.com/catalog/images/Body-Solid-G1S-Lat-Pulldown.jpg



See what Hatchet Man said. Lat pull down != pull up.


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## daftandbarmy (29 Oct 2007)

Try these machines... they're pretty good, and many gyms have them.

Beginners who are not strong enough to perform a chin-up may make use of an assisted chin-up machine, where one stands on a bar with a counterweight to reduce the weight that one pulls up. Another useful exercise for beginners is the negative chin-up, where one is assisted to the top position and executes a slow, controlled descent. These machines frequently also include a dip bar, allowing for assisted dipping.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chin-up


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## Munxcub (30 Oct 2007)

Gravitron machines are great, but very costly. If you have a pullup bar at home just order a set of jump stretch bands from http://performance-training.ca/store/bases_sets.html#intro

They provide a more realistic experience, which should help when you transition to unassisted pullups. (not to mention take up less space and cost a lot less then a gravitron machine  )


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## edgar (30 Oct 2007)

dutchie936 said:
			
		

> I am a large frame man(6'3",220lbs)and it is very tough to watch guys literally half my size doing these exercises almost effortlessly.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help on this matter.



There's no help for that, little guys have an inherent advantage in these events. All you can do is be smug because chicks dig tall guys.
If you are carrying any extra weight that might be a problem too. For me every ten pounds of beer belly is a couple of fewer chinups I can do. Even big legs from doing squats and stuff is dead weight for chinups.


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## daftandbarmy (30 Oct 2007)

Another suggestion from the cheap seats: go to an indoor rock climbing gym. It's more fun than crankin' em out in the doorframe at home. After a good season rock climbing I have no trouble at all with doing 15-20.


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## JBoyd (31 Oct 2007)

As an Avid Rock climber i agree with the above post, once you are decent at rock climbing, challenge yourself by trying to do a complete run with only your upper body, do not use your feet at all. 


anyways, I as well have problems with Pull-ups, they are completely different from Chin-ups, which use more bicep strength. These two sites have helped me on my way to doing many pull-ups,

http://www.healthandfitnessadvice.com/fitness-tips/how-to-do-a-pull-up-when-you-cant-do-a-pull-up.html

&

http://www.kayaklakemead.com/pullups-for-beginners.html

the second link there has a good program for beginners. give it a go if you want and let us know your progress nonetheless.


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## edgar (2 Nov 2007)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Another suggestion from the cheap seats: go to an indoor rock climbing gym. It's more fun than crankin' em out in the doorframe at home. After a good season rock climbing I have no trouble at all with doing 15-20.


Truth. Speakin of being motivated by watching a guy do chins, some of the people who hang out at the rock climbing places can do a bunch of chins with two fingers, or one arm. Kinda awesome. 
For best results try not to hang from the rope all the time like me.


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## TacticalW (4 Nov 2007)

As some others said, work on your back and shoulders (mostly Deltoids, Latissamus and Triceps). While for the chin-ups you need more bicep strength for the pull-up you need the very rarely used tricep muscle. What worked out for me is doing seperate excercises for those specific muscles and before making the full attempt at "pull-ups" do negatives on a machine at a gym if possible. Start with half your weight put on there for safety and then put it up as you progress - make sure you do at least 7 before taking off the negative weight. You can find everything you need at the gym and check with a supervisor for advice on which machines to use. We all start somewhere when it comes to facing the treacherous pull-up... it is a tough foe best served with gatorade.


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## McNeill (28 Nov 2007)

You can also give T-Bar Rows a shot. Should help build Tricep and Latimus Muscles.


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## The_Falcon (29 Nov 2007)

TacticalW said:
			
		

> As some others said, work on your back and shoulders (mostly Deltoids, Latissamus and Triceps). While for the chin-ups you need more bicep strength for the pull-up you need the very rarely used tricep muscle. What worked out for me is doing seperate excercises for those specific muscles and before making the full attempt at "pull-ups" do negatives on a machine at a gym if possible. Start with half your weight put on there for safety and then put it up as you progress - make sure you do at least 7 before taking off the negative weight. You can find everything you need at the gym and check with a supervisor for advice on which machines to use. We all start somewhere when it comes to facing the treacherous pull-up... it is a tough foe best served with gatorade.





			
				McNeill said:
			
		

> You can also give T-Bar Rows a shot. Should help build Tricep and Latimus Muscles.



Umm last time I checked your triceps were involved in EXTENDING/STRAIGHTENING ones arms, which means "pulling" exercises such as pull-ups and rows have very little effect on them generally speaking (unless you are doing super slow, heavy negative repetitions).  TW  chin ups and pull ups work essentially the same muscles biceps,deltoids,lats (again tricep involvement is fairly non-existant unless you are doing strict negatives, and unless you are beginner or just adding variety, there is no need to do negatives very often,) your hand position is what determines the emphasis.  As stated previously, using a supinated (ie chinups) grip places more emphasis on your biceps (as quite litterally you are doing arm curls using yourself as the weight), and pronated grip (pull-ups) places the emphasis almost exclusively on your lats, since you virtually eliminated the bodies ability to "curl" the arms. If you want to give yourself a challenge and really focus in on your lats, use a wider grip when you do pull-ups.


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## McNeill (29 Nov 2007)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> Umm last time I checked your triceps were involved in EXTENDING/STRAIGHTENING ones arms, which means "pulling" exercises such as pull-ups and rows have very little effect on them generally speaking (unless you are doing super slow, heavy negative repetitions).  TW  chin ups and pull ups work essentially the same muscles biceps,deltoids,lats (again tricep involvement is fairly non-existant unless you are doing strict negatives, and unless you are beginner or just adding variety, there is no need to do negatives very often,) your hand position is what determines the emphasis.  As stated previously, using a supinated (ie chinups) grip places more emphasis on your biceps (as quite litterally you are doing arm curls using yourself as the weight), and pronated grip (pull-ups) places the emphasis almost exclusively on your lats, since you virtually eliminated the bodies ability to "curl" the arms. If you want to give yourself a challenge and really focus in on your lats, use a wider grip when you do pull-ups.



Thanks Hatchet should have mentioned that. But if someone cannot do a chin up/pull up at all focusing on the negatives, with say 25 lbs to start, is a good way to start off.


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## combat_clarke (7 Dec 2007)

I have a friend whom is a gymnast and Here are some tips I was given to help me with pull ups, hope this helps you.


1. dangling Pull ups- Just get in pull up position and hang dead weight dont atemp to pull up. I was told this streaches the tendons and muscles in the back and arms, and the longer you hang there your body will get used to it though muscle memory.

2. Hoping pull ups- Get into pull up posistion and with your feet touching the ground and do a little hop while you pull up and hold the pull up as long as you can works for muscle memory.

3. got this one from P90X . put a foot on a chair while your doing your pull ups it takes some weight off , you fail when you start using your leg to push you up or when the chair is wobbling .


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## kayakguyt72 (10 Dec 2007)

Even if you aren't using elastics or a gravitron or a lat pull-down for that matter, just going through the motion of a pull-up will improve your ability to do them.  When I first started doing pull-ups a couple of years ago, like many on here I couldn't even do one.  I was told to just keep trying to get my chin over the bar.  One day I was able to do one, then two and so on.  The more I worked at them the better I got and now I can complete 15 or more on a good day.  I didn't do weights or use anything else to help other than pull ups themselves.

cheers


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## Spider Begley (21 Dec 2015)

Alright so i was told that Pullups are Required for the military is that true?
right now i have the weirdest Strength i can Bench 205LBS, Squat 550LBS but cannot do a single pull up. I can scale walls like 2 - 5M wall but no pullups


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## MJP (21 Dec 2015)

Spider Begley said:
			
		

> Alright so i was told that Pullups are Required for the military is that true?
> right now i have the weirdest Strength i can Bench 205LBS, Squat 550LBS but cannot do a single pull up. I can scale walls like 2 - 5M wall but no pullups



entry in the CAF nor any test during BMQ/BMOQ requires pull ups.  Doesn't mean you won't be told to do some though.


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## Spider Begley (21 Dec 2015)

Okay thats a relief what about DP1 and on besides para


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## MJP (21 Dec 2015)

Spider Begley said:
			
		

> Okay thats a relief what about DP1 and on besides para



DP1 Nope.  Nothing you need to worry about at this point in your career, other than the fact you have a huge imbalance in your physical abilities.


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## cld617 (21 Dec 2015)

I'd be more concerned with why you have such disproportionate strength, and stop focusing on one particular movement. Pull ups will find their way into PT, you need to be able to get youeself above a bar. Are you severely overweight/underweight? I don't know of any reason beyond a physical limitation that would cause such drastic imbalances. How's your running? Pull ups are an excellent measure of both relative and absolute strength, being able to not do one but having a 550lb squat doesn't add up.


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## Spider Begley (21 Dec 2015)

Honestly I play Rugby and Football. I weight around 103Kg
I workout in the gym atleast 1 hour a day 5 days a week. Doing Plyometrics,Upper body,Lowerbody, ect and lots of conditioning


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## Oscar590 (21 Dec 2015)

You're gonna want to train on your pull ups. On my BMQ we had to do pull ups before every meal and on my DP1 we did pull ups every time we entered and left the shacks.


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## Spider Begley (21 Dec 2015)

Alright thanks!


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## mariomike (21 Dec 2015)

Spider Begley said:
			
		

> Alright so i was told that Pullups are Required for the military is that true?



"Even the Canadian Armed Forces do not use pull-ups as part of their official fitness evaluation."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/even-fit-women-cant-do-pull-ups-study-finds/article4651742/

See also,



			
				Skeatah33 said:
			
		

> Day 1: Up at 0450, brush teeth, shave (if you have time) and get ready for morning PT. We did baseline testing on day 1 using stations. Burpees, Push-ups, Squats, Pull-ups and sit-ups.


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## daftandbarmy (21 Dec 2015)

Lean-N-Supreme said:
			
		

> You're gonna want to train on your pull ups. On my BMQ we had to do pull ups before every meal and on my DP1 we did pull ups every time we entered and left the shacks.



And that's how the infantry rolls. 

Sadly, the CF fitness tests do not meet infantry requirements so local adaptations to the 'official' fitness programs are always required so that a rifleman can do their job properly.

That aside doing lots every day, as you describe here, is a great way to get good at it.


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## Jarnhamar (21 Dec 2015)

Spider Begley said:
			
		

> Alright so i was told that Pullups are Required for the military is that true?
> right now i have the weirdest Strength i can Bench 205LBS, Squat 550LBS but cannot do a single pull up. I can scale walls like 2 - 5M wall but no pullups



For context, I've never had to push 205lbs off of my chest (lots of guys have though, if you know what I mean   ) but I have had to pull myself up through the opening in a ceiling/floor above wearing my kit. If you're in the infantry you're going to be doing Urban Ops training and that requires good upper body strength for pulling yourself up and over shit.

If you can't even do one pull up work on dead hangs and slowly lowering yourself to the ground.  Various back and bicep workouts will have you up to a dozen or more pullups before you even know you can do one.


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## BinRat55 (21 Dec 2015)

Not that i'm a gym freak or even a PT God... but could it be that 

a) muscle is heavier than fat
b) you are squatting over half a ton (which by my thoughts, leaves you with some pretty legs to pull up...)
c) you are at the 230lb mark... 35% are MTL your ... yes, legs.

I would look at it from that side (if you haven't already) - less squats, more bicep / traps / triceps - and the deadhang thing Jarnhamar said? Perfect.


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