# Letters of Reference



## jabraun (25 Sep 2004)

erm im almost afraid to ask this i read a few posts in FAQ's etc cant find anything pertaining to my situation so ill ask. Im onto the letters of referance part right now and the problem is ive worked my job now for over 2 yrs and its been my only job and the company i work for(monster giant company) makes it a policy of not giving letters of referance by management. So basically im going out on a limb here and im asking some people who were above me in upper management who ive known and worked with for awhile to give me a personal referance letter under the table from "the company". Anyway anyone been in my situation and can give me a bit of help here if this doesnt work?


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## Tracker (25 Sep 2004)

What are you applying for?  If it just the standard letters of reference, you can have friends fill them out.  At least one of your references has to have known you for five years.


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## jabraun (25 Sep 2004)

infantry, from what i read they have to work with you


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## chrisf (25 Sep 2004)

Former teachers are another good option.


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## jabraun (25 Sep 2004)

never really had much of a relationship with my teachers and that was like 3 yrs ago when i graduated most wont even remember me;d


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## Tracker (27 Sep 2004)

You can no longer add your references up to get five years.  At least one has to have known you for five years.  They must be adults who are not family members.  You can always check with your local Recruiting Centre 1-800-856-8488.


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## Sh0rtbUs (27 Sep 2004)

What I did was have a family friend write me one up (who happened to be an RCR WO) and another friend who was a pastor. Anyone who's gonna make you look good  ;D


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## jabraun (28 Sep 2004)

they both have to know me for 5 yrs?


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## Tracker (28 Sep 2004)

Just one.


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## scm77 (28 Sep 2004)

How "well" do they have to know you?

The one I plan to use is a friend/co-worker of my moms who has know me for six or seven years but only from comming over to our house/going to hers for dinner every so often etc.  

What sort of things do they need to know about me in order to be a valid refrence?


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## jermeytinling (26 Oct 2004)

im new here an im about to send in my application for the infentry tommorrow... an i was wondering if it was ok to use a teacher as your reference?. an imput would be really helpful 






P.S. thanks in advance guys


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## NavyGrunt (26 Oct 2004)

Teachers are fine. Its says so on the "letter of reference".


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## cgyflames01 (26 Oct 2004)

As long as the teacher has known you for five years, you'll be fine.


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## NavyGrunt (26 Oct 2004)

ah yes that part is important. Although that is as well spelled out on the form lol.


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## Chainsaw (14 Jan 2005)

Hey chaps,

I've been looking over the required documents that I need, and I was wondering if there was a template that I could give to the people that are writing my reference letters? One is my principle, so he needs one, and the other is my cadet CO, so he should be OK, but just in case...

So if anyone has a template for it, just PM/e-mail me.

Ugh, just remembered I wanted to ask this too: What is the maximum time I can defer acceptance after getting the offer?

Cheers,


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## George Wallace (14 Jan 2005)

I don't think you have anything to worry about.  The people you have listed should have a good idea of how to write a letter of recommendation and what to include in it.  There is no requirement for a 'certain' type of template.

GW


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## cgyflames01 (14 Jan 2005)

Do you mean a reference sheet?? If you do, I can fax you that template. I think I have an extra one kicking around.


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## fir_na_tine (2 Mar 2005)

Alright, so i reckon that this might sound like a pretty dumb question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. 

Is there an actual standard letter of reference for someone to fill out? I was looking for it on the CD that I got from the recruitment center, and i couldn't find one for NCM's (I also looked on-line). I found one for officers, and MP's so I was just wondering if I was missing it, or if my references have to use their creative juices and write one up from scratch...

Any comments are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!


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## kincanucks (2 Mar 2005)

The SLOR in the Other Officer Occupations on the mini cd is the one you use for NCMs.


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (20 Jun 2005)

Hi, I'm wondering if theres a way I can get my recommendation from the recruiting office.
one of my officers handed it in and I was thinking I could use it to apply for other jobs as well.
My officers cool with the idea and even offered to be a refrence, I would still like to have his recommendation to hand in with my resume


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## kincanucks (20 Jun 2005)

Future Unknown said:
			
		

> Hi, I'm wondering if theres a way I can get my recommendation from the recruiting office.
> one of my officers handed it in and I was thinking I could use it to apply for other jobs as well.
> My officers cool with the idea and even offered to be a refrence, I would still like to have his recommendation to hand in with my resume



Are you talking about the reference letters you handed in with your application or are you referring to the report that is written on you by the military career counsellor?


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## JBP (20 Jun 2005)

> Are you talking about the reference letters you handed in with your application or are you referring to the report that is written on you by the military career counsellor?



That would be very interesting to see, although the officer who interviewed me was very candid (which I appreciated) with me and advised me of my score. He dropped my score because I had previously turned down an offer for reg force R031 and now joined reserve R031. Am I allowed to see my own file? If not, no biggy, if so, it'd be cool to take a gander at it.

Joe


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## kincanucks (20 Jun 2005)

R031 Pte Joe said:
			
		

> That would be very interesting to see, although the officer who interviewed me was very candid (which I appreciated) with me and advised me of my score. He dropped my score because I had previously turned down an offer for reg force R031 and now joined reserve R031. Am I allowed to see my own file? If not, no biggy, if so, it'd be cool to take a gander at it.
> 
> Joe



Not without submitting an access to information act request.


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## CADPAT SOLDIER (20 Jun 2005)

I'm refereing to the letter "I" handed in actually  my officer handed it in himself I've never actually seen the letter


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## kincanucks (21 Jun 2005)

Future Unknown said:
			
		

> I'm refereing to the letter "I" handed in actually   my officer handed it in himself I've never actually seen the letter



Go to the CFRC/D and ask for a copy.


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## ThatsLife (19 Aug 2005)

it says in my information guide 

"two letters of reference for officer applicant"

This doesn't apply to someone who's going for NCM does it? I just want to make sure. I don't want to go running around and find out I didn't have to do it because I wasn't applying for Officer.

Thank you ahead of time.


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## Springroll (19 Aug 2005)

On my sheet it says officers require 3 references and ncm's require two.
I got my aunt(family friend of my mom's longer than I have been alive) and an awesome friend in Ottawa to write them out and fax them to me. They both had them to me within 24 hours.


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## NavyGirl280 (19 Aug 2005)

I am applying for reserves and when sent the forms, I was giving 2 forms for Letter of References. On my information guide they sent me, it states (under supporting documentation) "two letters of reference for officer applicant." From what I get out of it, both Regs and Reserves are required to have the same. This could be a typo and maybe I could be wrong. Best advice I could give is to contact the recruiting office and ask them, as to save yourself the heartache when you find out you may or may not need any additional letters. The recruters are only people too and Im sure they live by the same rule of thumb "Theres no such thing as a dumb question." I wish you much luck in whatever you do


Shari Bradbury


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## Mineguy (19 Aug 2005)

Hey springroll,

You better check with the recruiters as im not sure if a letter from a family member is gonna cut it! Im sure itss till the same as when i did it in 94 or so, you will need somebody official like a former employer of a school teacher, principle, doctor, police officer, scout leader, girl guide leader, swim coach anything offical etc...somebody in your family cant be trusted to give a letter that they can take serious as unbiased in my opinion but like i say you should check, but if the latter might save some time from you in the long run!

Kuna 8)


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## patrick666 (19 Aug 2005)

Do you think the head of my program at school would be acceptable? I've known her for roughly 6 months but I'd say she knows me and the rest of the students pretty well. 

Cheers


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## Springroll (19 Aug 2005)

The person must know you for at least 5 years.


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## alexpb (19 Aug 2005)

When i was talking to a recruiter he told me that of the 2 references i needed, only 1 needed to have known me for 5 years.

Even though on the sheet it sai di needed 2 that have known me for 5 years.
I brought in 2 references, one that knew me for 5+ years and one thats kn own me for 4 years and there wasnt a problem.


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## Angela F. (19 Aug 2005)

When I was getting ready to hand in my application I asked four people for letters, just in case a couple didn't get them in to me in time.  At the time that I actually handed them in I had three, so I asked if I could hand all of them in, rather than pick out two.  They said of that was fine.  The fourth was given to me the next day, but he had made a couple of mistakes on it anyway so it was OK!

As far as who I got to do the letters; one was a co-worker, one was a manager from my former job, one was a friend who rides horses with me and is in the military, and the other was someone who's known me forever as a friend, employer and coach.

(from the application package I was sent)
Who Can Be a Reference?
References are adults, who are not relatives, who
generally come from three different areas of your life,
and who, together, can provide you with at least five (5)
years of continuous coverage. It is advisable to choose
references who can provide information about you from
a variety of different perspectives.


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## infamous_p (19 Aug 2005)

The previous entry on this thread was correct - one of the two letters of reference needs to be from a person that has known you for more than 5 years. The other one doesn't matter. I acquired one of my letters of reference from my grade 11 law teacher who has only known me for a few years, and the other from my next door neighbour, who has known me for 7 years. All went well.


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## NavComm (19 Aug 2005)

When I applied the CFRC gave me the letters which were pre-formatted and my references filled in the blanks. One question was something like: is there any reason why you think this person would not be a good candidate for the Canadian Forces? and I thought to myself....why in God's name would I ask someone who might say 'yes' to fill that out????? Not that I know anyone who would say yes....

The other question I thought was funny was something about if this person (the recruit) had any bad habits the letter writer might be aware of and my boss put: SHE WON'T QUIT SMOKING.

I handed it in and still got accepted.

Both my references had known me for over 15 years, one was a current employer and the other a very dear family friend.


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## alexpb (20 Aug 2005)

The recruiter said *if they want to* your references can attach their own letter of reference to the pre-formatted reference sheets, but they don't HAVE to. 

So my references just filled out the sheets by themselves without adding anything, should be fine.


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## NavComm (20 Aug 2005)

It will be fine Alex. That's all mine did and I got in.


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## ChopperHead (21 Aug 2005)

If you get refrences from people already in the military would that help you out in your process ie. speed it up or anything? Kinda seems that having military refrences would be more relevant then just having friends and nieghbours fill out a sheet. 




Kyle.


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## Jaxson (23 Aug 2005)

i got the disc from the recruiter and it says for a non officer, you dont need references?


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## ThatsLife (23 Aug 2005)

Thanks for all the replies guys   :warstory:


I have another question!

I only really know three people that have known me for 5 years because I use to move around ALOT.

Currently the three references I can choose from are:



My Doctor (known me for about 9 years or so)

My friends mom who's in the RCMP (she's known me for 5-6 years)

And a family friend who's a Sergeant for the Delta Police (known me since I was 6-7 years)


Would these be fine considering I don't really have any other references since i've moved around atleast 20 times in my 17 years of life. Born in Montreal and travelled across Canada to BC now. My employers have all mostly been work experience and seasonal employement for 1-2 months so I don't think that would be very helpful.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated


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## Zombie (23 Aug 2005)

Get references from all 3 and use the 2 you like or think sound the best. The third one you can mention in your interview so as not to waste it.


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## ThatsLife (23 Aug 2005)

I know but what i'm asking is, is a family doctor alright?


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## Zombie (23 Aug 2005)

Yes.


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## mbhabfan (9 Nov 2005)

can someone tell me how long a letter of reference is good for?   I tried doing a little search but came up dry. Also if I have a direct letter from my local member of paliament will that work or will it have to be the generic CF letter of reference form?


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## Pieman (9 Nov 2005)

It is good for one year. I had to get mine redone because they expired. I am not sure if you *have* to have the form, but I suspect they will want it.


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## mbhabfan (9 Nov 2005)

mine aren't one year old yet and the cfrc is saying that I need new ones to reapply....anyone shed light on this for me??


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## Pieman (9 Nov 2005)

If you are going to 'reapply' do you mean you stopped your application and started a new one? That would make sense they want new ones done. Or perhaps they have a new reference form?


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## mbhabfan (9 Nov 2005)

my file was closed in July because I turned down an offer.  I am reapplying and the cfat, medical etc just needs updating but she said my letters of reference expired does someone know for sure the timeline?


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## kincanucks (9 Nov 2005)

Good for one year but it is standard to ask for new ones after a file is closed.   Normally they don't have to be on the standardized form but they had better follow the format no matter who they are from.


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## mbhabfan (9 Nov 2005)

standard to ask for new ones even though one is going to be from the same person?  As far as format for the other letter it states who he is, who I am, he has known me for most of my life.  He was a former coach in my minor hockey days, and now he knows me as a business owner in his riding.  As far as format what else would be needed?


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## kincanucks (9 Nov 2005)

We call them standardized letters of reference for a reason as they ask specific questions on areas that we would like the reference to comment on.  So you can either do what the CFRC/D asks or ........


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## mbhabfan (9 Nov 2005)

I appreciate your info Kincanucks thank you.  I don't mean to sound like a smart a** here but if they are good for one year why would it be standard to ask for new ones?  I am not sure what I have done to you but I always sense friction in your replies.  I am sure duplicating the letter of reference from this past spring has some logical purpose I just can't see it.


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## kincanucks (9 Nov 2005)

Some people require detailed explanations of why they have to do something when it comes to recruiting.  While we certainly appreciate people don't like to accept something on face value it is very important to have set procedures in place in order that everyone is treated fairly and in a transparent manner.  Rest ensure that you have done nothing to me and if my responses seem fricticious (a word?) it is not done intentional as I have always been noted for my abrupt and officious manner.


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## Spazz (9 Nov 2005)

Hey, I just thought this would be better then starting a new thread. I have both my reference sheets filled out. Now one of my references is my principal and he has known me for 3 years and the other is a old hockey coach and youth leader who has known me for the last 10 years. I just want to clarify that I only need one reference who has known me for 5 years or over because i am pretty sure that is what the recruiter told me. Thanks


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## kincanucks (9 Nov 2005)

Spazz said:
			
		

> Hey, I just thought this would be better then starting a new thread. I have both my reference sheets filled out. Now one of my references is my principal and he has known me for 3 years and the other is a old hockey coach and youth leader who has known me for the last 10 years. I just want to clarify that I only need one reference who has known me for 5 years or over because i am pretty sure that is what the recruiter told me. Thanks



One of your letters must be able to provide at least five years coverage.


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## Fruss (24 Nov 2005)

Hi,

It says on army.ca and on the army web site that a reference can be a friend but cannot be a relative.....  Is a girlfriend (not common law)considered a relative? Can she fill out a reference form?

Thanks

Frank


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## Michael OLeary (24 Nov 2005)

Standard Letter of Reference Form
http://www.army.dnd.ca/25Service_Battalion/images/letter_ref_e.pdf

Under the heading - "Describe your relationship with the applicant"

"He buys me drinks and takes me to movies" might be seen as not quite the type of relationship and reference basis that the CFRC is looking for. I would suggest a girlfriend isn't quite appropriate, but I am not a recruiter and you should check with your CFRC before following this route.


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## kincanucks (24 Nov 2005)

A SLOR from your girlfriend will not be acceptable.


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## xmarcx (9 Jun 2006)

I searched and searched but couldn't find anything on this. I've applied for DEO Infantry, start testing next week and I'm supposed to bring in my 330-60E, but like so many University students I've moved so much in the last few years/worked and went to school non stop and never met any of my neighbours anyways. 

So, do roomates or landlords count? In this case my current landlord lives downstairs, so he is technically a neighbour,but does the financial dealings issue negate him?


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## kincanucks (9 Jun 2006)

_Neighbourhood reference is an individual who has known you for over six months preferably at your current address. If not, the individual has been a neighbour during the past five years._

Written right in the Instruction sheet.


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## boots (25 Jun 2006)

I thought you couldn't use friends...? That was making it a lot harder. 

Fortunately, two friends I am considering asking have both known me 5 years, and have also both been my landlords. I have other people in "official" type relationships that I could ask, if needed.


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## A1L3 (9 Feb 2009)

this my first post on this forum
i have sent my application online to join the infantry reserves 
im stuck on the referances i dont know anyone longer then 5 years as i have moved often just wondering if theres anything i can do?
also when they say adult they meen age of majority in your province correct?
what about in-laws??


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## boredinto (9 Feb 2009)

References can be anyone who isn't family.  I can't say about in laws, but I would stay away from them in order to keep your application as professional as possible.

Teachers, Employers, Community members all make good references.  Coaches from any sports you might have played, or a church leader perhaps.  

Your looking for anyone that you know in your life that can give a candid, but positive review of who you are as person, and you work and life ethic.

You can even have friends give references.  If you need to use a friend or two, try and think of ones who might have well respected or professional careers, or who hold a respected title in your community, a Community Committee leader or Condo Board Director for example...

Everyone knows a few good references  ;D  

Also keep in mind my advice isint specifically derived from the millitary, but as a former hiring manager for the financial services sector.  There are some CF specific threads that you can search for on here...


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## George Wallace (9 Feb 2009)

The instructions as to whom you can put down as a Refererence are clearly stated on the forms, or in this topic.  You could easily read either one and it is all explained for you.


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## Azizti (10 Feb 2009)

If I remember correctly, you need 3 references, 1 that has known you for at least 5 years.
I had asked the recruiter, (I was in the same boat as you) and he said that someone that remembered be was fine even if I hadnt seen that person in a year or two.
Try getting in touch with an old teacher or even principale that would remember you.
They are always open to help


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## George Wallace (10 Feb 2009)

Azizti said:
			
		

> If I remember correctly, you need 3 references, 1 that has known you for at least 5 years.
> I had asked the recruited, (I was in the same boat as you) and he said that someone that remembered be was fine even if I hadnt seen that person in a year or two.
> Try getting in touch with an old teacher or even principale that would remember you.
> They are always open to help



I wonder why we even try?




			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> The instructions as to whom you can put down as a Refererence are clearly stated on the forms, or in this topic.  You could easily read either one and it is all explained for you.


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## MeghanC (7 Mar 2009)

Azizti said:
			
		

> If I remember correctly, you need 3 references, 1 that has known you for at least 5 years.



I am doing my application and while it used to be 3 references, you now need 5 and "they must have known you for at least five continuous years of coverage" it no longer says only 1 must have known you for at least 5 years as it did on the older forms. Other information that you will find on the form tells you that they must be an adult who is not immediate family or a relative. They can be employment, educational or personal references and on the form you indicate what category they fall into and their relationship to you.  The form states employment references can be former or current co-workers, supervisors or employers. The educational references can be former or current teachers, professors or coaches. The personal references can be neighbours, family friends, religious/spiritual leaders or community leaders.


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## bomber12 (9 Mar 2009)

MeghanC said:
			
		

> I am doing my application and while it used to be 3 references, you now need 5 and "they must have known you for at least five continuous years of coverage" it no longer says only 1 must have known you for at least 5 years as it did on the older forms. Other information that you will find on the form tells you that they must be an adult who is not immediate family or a relative. They can be employment, educational or personal references and on the form you indicate what category they fall into and their relationship to you.  The form states employment references can be former or current co-workers, supervisors or employers. The educational references can be former or current teachers, professors or coaches. The personal references can be neighbours, family friends, religious/spiritual leaders or community leaders.



I am in the application process and I only needed to give 3 references. Could be anyone besides family and only 1 has to have know you for atleast 5 years. Thats all I had to do.


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## George Wallace (9 Mar 2009)

bomber12 said:
			
		

> I am in the application process and I only needed to give 3 references. Could be anyone besides family and only 1 has to have know you for atleast 5 years. Thats all I had to do.



Brilliant.  As has been stated so many times already, the new process, BackCheck, calls for more.  You are one of the few who may be going through a CFRC that has not yet updated its procedures.  You are the exception, not the rule.


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