# Hamilton soldier fighting a battle … for work



## toughenough (4 Mar 2014)

LINK



> When Drew Battersby joined the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada regiment 23 years ago, he figured a little adventure and discipline as a part-time reservist was just what he needed.
> 
> But while the military side of his life has gone well — for one thing, he spent six and a half months in Bosnia as part of NATO peacekeeping operation in 1998 — he hasn't been able to find steady, well-paying work in the Hamilton area.
> 
> ...


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## ModlrMike (4 Mar 2014)

Good for Cpl Battersby, and good for Robar Center.


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## pbi (5 Mar 2014)

I don't like the image of Reservists that this article projects.



> He has bounced from dead-end job to dead-end job because he lacks the skills to build a career on.



Yes..good for the College and for the Regiment, but I wonder about this statement. Military service typically produces a set of human skills and attributes that many employers would kill to have in their work force: the ability to show up on time, to do what you're told, to follow policies and rules, to take responsibility, and to function as part of a team. Apparently, at age 39, this individual has not been able to capitalize on any of these. 



> "They come back from a commission overseas and there is really no job for them because they need some skills training.



I'm sorry...what? This doesn't even make sense. Were most Reservists who deployed to Afgh chronically unemployed on civvy street or did they actually already have civvy jobs that they left/took LOA from?


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## dapaterson (5 Mar 2014)

pbi said:
			
		

> Were most Reservists who deployed to Afgh chronically unemployed on civvy street or did they actually already have civvy jobs that they left/took LOA from?



Of those I know, less than 1 in 10 did not have meaningful work to return to post-deployment.  On the other hand, I know a few who took pay cuts to deploy, and others who lost out on promotion opportunities while deployed.


(And one who deployed at the last minute, because, apparently, 100+ Reg F Inf LCols and nearly 400 Reg F Inf Majs were all allegedly employed in higher priorities than Afghanistan...)


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## pbi (5 Mar 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Of those I know, less than 1 in 10 did not have meaningful work to return to post-deployment.  On the other hand, I know a few who took pay cuts to deploy, and others who lost out on promotion opportunities while deployed.


As I expected: not the hapless lot of unemployables this article suggests. There is a difference between Reservists who lost a good job or a promotion they had before deploying, and someone who has not ever had a meaningful job. I'm not sure how much going to Afghanistan or Bosnia actually has to do with the latter case.


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## Jarnhamar (5 Mar 2014)

pbi said:
			
		

> I don't like the image of Reservists that this article projects.
> 
> Yes..good for the College and for the Regiment, but I wonder about this statement. Military service typically produces a set of human skills and attributes that many employers would kill to have in their work force: the ability to show up on time, to do what you're told, to follow policies and rules, to take responsibility, and to function as part of a team. Apparently, at age 39, this individual has not been able to capitalize on any of these. I wonder why he is a Cpl after 23 years of service? Is it just his choice to never take leadership training?
> 
> I'm sorry...what? This doesn't even make sense. Were most Reservists who deployed to Afgh chronically unemployed on civvy street or did they actually already have civvy jobs that they left/took LOA from?



Couldn't agree more with your post.

It seems like an amazing gesture by the Robar Centre.

The soldier in the story hasn't had meaningful work since going to Bosnia in *1998*. That strikes me as being more of a home grown problem rather than something deploying overseas created.  

I hate to say it but from personal experience I see the problem isn't so much being unskilled  somehow because they choose to deploy overseas but rather being unskilled before they chose deploy and/or having a bad attitude when they get home. 

There's guys and girls who join the Police, regular force, CSIS, fire department, CANSOF, get BAs and Masters in school, go to college, start businesses.  Then there are guys and girls who go on unemployment for a year bitch about how much the reserves sucks and act like their unit owes them class B contracts.


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## dapaterson (5 Mar 2014)

Keep in mind, though, "successful before she left and successful after" is nowhere near as interesting...


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## Chanada (5 Mar 2014)

There are two sides to every story and I won’t apologize for a story that should have been better written.  However, to suggest that failure to achieve rank equals failure or that only recent overseas service is relevant is very simplistic. I was Cpl Battersby’s CO…He is without doubt one of the most reliable and “can-do” soldiers I have ever had the pleasure of working with.  He is the guy in the unit that when it was announced 200 people broke into applause because he is a great example of solid soldier and a fine Argyll.  He  lives in Hamilton where employment prospects outside the public sector are very limited and there are no quick fixes or even a pool of Cl B posns to take off the pressure.  It’s a huge issue, and this programme is an attempt to eat the elephant one bite at a time…not a lot of flash... but meaningful outcome.
His problems with deployment and courses have nothing to do with motivation or ability…they have to do with personal family issues that if you did know them you would be amazed at the level of commitment and dedication he has been able to maintain - just soldiering on.
The aim of the Robar-Argyll Scholarship is to keep good soldiers in the Reserve Army...in their units and to make them happy soldiers with happy families so that they can be employed and deployed…The scholarship is actually awarded by an application process and Cpl Battersby was hands down the first and popular choice throughout the chain of command and in all three messes.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (5 Mar 2014)

Chanada said:
			
		

> There are two sides to every story and I won’t apologize for a story that should have been better written.  However, to suggest that failure to achieve rank equals failure or that only recent overseas service is relevant is very simplistic. I was Cpl Battersby’s CO…He is without doubt one of the most reliable and “can-do” soldiers I have ever had the pleasure of working with.  He is the guy in the unit that when it was announced 200 people broke into applause because he is a great example of solid soldier and a fine Argyll.  He  lives in Hamilton where employment prospects outside the public sector are very limited and there are no quick fixes or even a pool of Cl B posns to take off the pressure.  It’s a huge issue, and this programme is an attempt to eat the elephant one bite at a time…not a lot of flash... but meaningful outcome.
> His problems with deployment and courses have nothing to do with motivation or ability…they have to do with personal family issues that if you did know them you would be amazed at the level of commitment and dedication he has been able to maintain - just soldiering on.
> The aim of the Robar-Argyll Scholarship is to keep good soldiers in the Reserve Army...in their units and to make them happy soldiers with happy families so that they can be employed and deployed…The scholarship is actually awarded by an application process and Cpl Battersby was hands down the first and popular choice throughout the chain of command and in all three messes.



Thanks for that.


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## ArmyRick (6 Mar 2014)

I would say this is a great initiative for the soldiers. If more educational institutions and private companies took similar initiatives for reservist and reg force releasing, it would certainly be a win-win situation. In my civy job (resort not the farm one) I am greatly appreciated for my "military can-do and get 'er done attitude".


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## HeavyMusic (7 Mar 2014)

I would also like to commend Chanada for his comments. I am startled by the negative responses posted on this forum for what is a positive article. There are a lot of capable soldiers in the reserves, tour veterans or not, who are having considerable difficulty finding meaningful (as in something that will provide the opportunity for a life with a real future beyond mere self-subsistence). Making crass generalizations does nto hep the situation. Reserve units have a diverse group with many connections, and they should be used to benefit the community where possible.


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## brihard (7 Mar 2014)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Of those I know, less than 1 in 10 did not have meaningful work to return to post-deployment.  On the other hand, I know a few who took pay cuts to deploy, and others who lost out on promotion opportunities while deployed.
> 
> 
> (And one who deployed at the last minute, because, apparently, 100+ Reg F Inf LCols and nearly 400 Reg F Inf Majs were all allegedly employed in higher priorities than Afghanistan...)



Respectfully, dapaterson- sample bias. I know where you come from and you know where I come from. Your crew is more liekly to be those professionally employed in other pursuits, if for no better reason than skillsets.

My usual anecdote: the plural of 'anecdote' is never 'data'. That out of the way, my reserve infantry unit sent about 90 to Afghanistan, and of course I know many more from other units. I would say that the majority of infantry reservists who deployed did NOT have a regular, steady gig. Some of us took time off school, or went after graduation, or were bumming around taking casual work beforehand, and started post secondary after tour. Some were on Cl Bs (normally of a menial nature), some were gathering as much Class A as they could to get by. Others had the various dead end jobs of guys in their early 20s. I can think of few in my unit who were doing the same thing when they got back as they did when they deployed, and most of those are Cl B types, or went back to bumming around the armoury scraping up Cl A.

I would say that for a good proportion of the reservists who deployed who I know, coming back form tour marked some sort of change in direction in life, and/or finally kicking off the plans (usually educational) that they'd had for a considerable period of time.

On the more general dubject of employment amongst our generation- sorry, but go where the work is. It won't come to you. I have limited sympathy for able bodied people who are keeping themselves unemployable by refusing to relocate. LOTS of jobs out west...


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## MP 811 (9 Mar 2014)

Chanada said:
			
		

> There are two sides to every story and I won’t apologize for a story that should have been better written.  However, to suggest that failure to achieve rank equals failure or that only recent overseas service is relevant is very simplistic. I was Cpl Battersby’s CO…He is without doubt one of the most reliable and “can-do” soldiers I have ever had the pleasure of working with.  He is the guy in the unit that when it was announced 200 people broke into applause because he is a great example of solid soldier and a fine Argyll.  He  lives in Hamilton where employment prospects outside the public sector are very limited and there are no quick fixes or even a pool of Cl B posns to take off the pressure.  It’s a huge issue, and this programme is an attempt to eat the elephant one bite at a time…not a lot of flash... but meaningful outcome.
> His problems with deployment and courses have nothing to do with motivation or ability…they have to do with personal family issues that if you did know them you would be amazed at the level of commitment and dedication he has been able to maintain - just soldiering on.
> The aim of the Robar-Argyll Scholarship is to keep good soldiers in the Reserve Army...in their units and to make them happy soldiers with happy families so that they can be employed and deployed…The scholarship is actually awarded by an application process and Cpl Battersby was hands down the first and popular choice throughout the chain of command and in all three messes.




I'd also like to say that I know Drew as well from my time with the Argyll's.  One of the finest soldiers ive ever met, regular or reserve......bar none.  Knowing what Drew has gone through in his life, and how he's always maintained a professional and pleasant demeanour, I wouldnt hesistate to work with him.......anywhere or anytime.


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## x_para76 (9 Mar 2014)

Sorry but I can't be sympathetic here. Life is about choices and to go 23 years without managing to find meaningful employment IMO is a failing of the individual not the system.


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## Jarnhamar (10 Mar 2014)

X_para76 said:
			
		

> Sorry but I can't be sympathetic here. Life is about choices and to go 23 years without managing to find meaningful employment IMO is a failing of the individual not the system.



The main article would have been more pongient if it mentioned the member having extenuating circumstances behind not finding meaningful employment for 23 years.


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## Bluebulldog (10 Mar 2014)

Brihard said:
			
		

> My usual anecdote: the plural of 'anecdote' is never 'data'. That out of the way, my reserve infantry unit sent about 90 to Afghanistan, and of course I know many more from other units. I would say that the majority of infantry reservists who deployed did NOT have a regular, steady gig. Some of us took time off school, or went after graduation, or were bumming around taking casual work beforehand, and started post secondary after tour. Some were on Cl Bs (normally of a menial nature), some were gathering as much Class A as they could to get by. Others had the various dead end jobs of guys in their early 20s. I can think of few in my unit who were doing the same thing when they got back as they did when they deployed, and most of those are Cl B types, or went back to bumming around the armoury scraping up Cl A.



That seems to be the overall case from what I've seen / experienced on my end as well. 

I've seen a few guys who started collecting Class B in their 20s, and get very comfortable with it. They then find themselves in their 30s with no relevant experience in their chosen professions / career paths. 

Good on the unit and Robar for this initiative, but there are a lot of reservists who are in the same boat.


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## chrisf (10 Mar 2014)

Former Class A junkie here who ultimately went back to school, and now makes a good living...

The article makes it sound like being a reservist is an impediment to finding a job... how many folks in 23 years at the same unit found meaningful employment elsewhere? If there were other circumstances  in his life that were an impediment, that's different.

Not a comment on the individual in the article (Certainly I wish him nothing but the best of luck, and congratulations on your graduation), but a general observation... I've known too many reservists who get used to an endless cycle of Class A, Class B under 180 days, and EI in between... I give the same advice to anyone who goes on a long term Class B contract... "Don't renew"..

I never understand it, if you're spending that much time working for the military, why not just bite the bullet, and go reg force? Get paid better, have steady employment, and have benefits.

If you're not planning on going reg-force, have a plan, and follow through... every one of the Class A and B junkies I know talks about how they're "planning on going back to school" but many never follow through... why? They're happy enough with their steady, crappy, pay-cheque.

No huge amounts of sympathy for anyone trapped in the cycle of reserve employment here, mostly because it's not that hard to get out of with a bit of effort, and there's so many examples of folks who've done it before and who will happily warn you not to do it.

In the mean time, military skills are a huge asset to employment in the civilian world... too many of us downplay the skills we learned in the military... are you a master-corporal or a sergeant? It doesn't seem like a big deal does it, you know dozens if not a few hundred other folks with the same skills... in the civilian world however, the same level is considered front-line management... and if you worked for a private corporation that employed 120 000 people, you'd probably know dozens if not hundreds of other front-line managers... those skills are sort of a big deal.

Some of that military can-do attitude doesn't have a place in the civilian world though... a few major oil-field service companies figured they were doing a wise thing when they picked up a large quantity of "type-a-personaility" folks from the military during downsizing and retirement packages in the mid-90s... shortly after they pissed off most of their fellow employees, they all started dying from heart attacks and strokes...

If you're looking to translate military skills into the civilian world, you need to take a serious inventory of the skills you do have, and put them in writing... conveniently, I have attached A-CR-007-000/AG-001 to this post for anyone who needs a hand doing that.

(Again, not a comment on the individual in the article, just a general observation)


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## Jarnhamar (10 Mar 2014)

a Sig Op said:
			
		

> I never understand it, if you're spending that much time working for the military, why not just bite the bullet, and go reg force? Get paid better, have steady employment, and have benefits.



Not being ordered to move hundreds of kilometers away, sell your house possibly taking a loss, uprooting your family.


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## pbi (19 Mar 2014)

I apologize for my original comment on the Cpl's lack of promotion (I removed it from my first post, but not quickly enough). It was ill-informed and unfair.


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## Crispy Bacon (24 Mar 2014)

pbi said:
			
		

> I don't like the image of Reservists that this article projects.



+1

I don't understand what the article is attempting to say.  He was deployed years ago so the military owes him  a job for the rest of his life?

Nothing against the guy personally, but he's a reservist.  Reservists are reservists because they have other full-time careers and reserves is a part-time gig.  Or, they're waiting to go Reg Force.


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## NavyHopeful (11 May 2014)

I have to applaud the school for participating in such a honourable program.  This is definitely the sort of thing that needs to go on more often.  Just to think that some people will be eligible to get further training, and that the school will provide a scholarship to ensure that the majority of the cost does not fall to the member, it makes one feel good to see it happen.

That said, why are there no other associations or training facilities/school/etc. stepping up to the plate?  I have noticed that there are quite a few people who pay lip service to the "Support our Troops" mentality, but when it comes time to step up, they disappear into the void, only to show up when a relatively inexpensive way to "Support our Troops" comes up again.

It's the little things, I've noticed, that go a long way to our troops' happiness.  Getting a military discount in the Halifax area at places such as Tip Top Tailors, Sport Chek, McDonald's, First Choice Haircutters, etc., or even things like free Tim Horton's coffee to CF members on the National Day of Honour, are some of the little things that go a long way for morale, in my opinion.  Whereas, in contrast, these same businesses in the vicinity of, say CFB Petawawa, do NOT offer the same services (with the exception of Timmy's, as far as I know), but profess to "Support our Troops" when, in reality, they treat the troops like crap, along with everyone else.

Please do not misunderstand me.  I do NOT believe that because we are CF we are better or deserve these things as entitlements.  I normally don't even ask for the discounts, but when they see my ID in my wallet when pulling out the old debit card, they just give them to me.  My frustration is that there is no continuity within the businesses that "Support our Troops."  My problem is that the guys and gals in Pet should be able to receive the same type of gratitude and appreciation that I receive here in Halifax.  It needs to either be a nationwide, or not at all kind of thing.  I mean, really, will Mickey D's lose that much money offering a 10% discount to CF members?  I think not.

As for the Cpl who received the scholarship, I hope he is able to succeed in his civilian work as he has clearly succeeded in his military career, as was apparent in Chanada's post.  And I also hope that, as I progress through my military career, I have supervisors, coworkers, and COs who would stand up for me as strongly as Chanada has for this individual.

Cheers, good luck, and keep on making us proud, Cpl Battersby!


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