# Scrap the military?



## axeman (28 Apr 2004)

http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=583ecc5e-46d0-43d5-b506-478c784adecd 

Scrap military, Canada told
OTTAWA - Given that the New York City police department has more officers than there are soldiers in the Canadian army, Canada should consider scrapping one or all of its army, navy or air force, says the former U.S. counter-terrorism adviser to presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.


----------



## Jarnhamar (28 Apr 2004)

Good idea. Lets just fire all the soldiers we have because that makes sense. Maybe cut the police force in half too. 

Then we can ignore warnings of a terrorist attack.

What a clever clever man.


----------



## atticus (28 Apr 2004)

wow there goes my chance of a college education or a pension in my life. smart man. s-m-r-t. but look he was advisor to: Bush and Clinton. also isn‘t new york about a third of the canadian population also?


----------



## Slim (28 Apr 2004)

**** him!


----------



## Old Cent Hand (28 Apr 2004)

SCRAP THE CANADIAN MILITARY !?! BS !We have alot of people overseas ,both reg and reserve , that are making a difference. Our soldiers are motivated , and well trained. We have a small military , due to budgets , and manning.Maybe these " incompetent turds ", in Ottawa , should have a closer look at Canada‘s Military , instead of wasting money on the silly " Gun Laws", and supporting " low income mom‘s with 4 hungry mouths to feed",who have no desire to work , and see it as more kids = more income.


----------



## Theoat (28 Apr 2004)

What a great idea, raise the unemployment rate and cut our defense system.    
Size alone doesn‘t dictate effectiveness anyways.


----------



## Old Cent Hand (28 Apr 2004)

Remember the " FRP " , Force Reduction Plan. The Government hung out the " Golden Carrot" , alot of people bit it ,an early  pension , and a cash buy out. "Easy Street" , don‘t have to work again.A number of these folks are back in,most that got back in, missed the military life , but for a few , it was get back in , or go hungry. FRP was a BIG MISTAKE. Look at our military now !


----------



## clasper (28 Apr 2004)

Richard Clarke is not that stupid.  This is just a little reverse psychology.  He also mentioned that Canada is getting a free ride in terms of North American defense, so he‘s just trying to get us to pull our weight.  (OK, I hope he‘s just trying to get us to pull our weight.)


----------



## scm77 (28 Apr 2004)

That‘s just stupid.  Why the **** is some US counter-terrorism guy telling us what to do?   

Perhaps we rather then get rid of the airforce or navy, the government could give them the money they badly need.


----------



## chipdudeman (28 Apr 2004)

Could always look at it as a conspiracy. With the military gone, nice neighbor USA defends our borders and we slowly become the newest american state. This would be payment for the protection!


----------



## OLD SCHOOL (28 Apr 2004)

I would say his track record with counter-terrorism speaks for itself. Just what terrorism has he countered? He should really just worry about his own back yard and let our  government weaken our Forces...they have done a great job so far.

Perhaps some of those New York police could help the poor ground pounders in Iraq who are so often under fire. Seems to be more of a problem with terrorists there (insurgants) than in Canada. Perhaps he can offer his expertise over there instead.


----------



## FutureTroopie (28 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Slim:
> [qb] **** him! [/qb]


----------



## pte anthony (28 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by Old Cent‘ Hand:
> [qb] Maybe these " incompetent turds ", in Ottawa , should have a closer look at Canada‘s Military , instead of wasting money on the silly " Gun Laws", and supporting " low income mom‘s with 4 hungry mouths to feed",who have no desire to work , and see it as more kids = more income. [/qb]


I agree with that 100 percent Canada troops are strong well trained people, it is obvious however that we do need many upgrades to equipment and more public recognition which may encourage growth in the size of our force. As for scrapping the military that is obsurd and just plain ******* nuts. If it did happen I would migrate to the States to fight in their force as a disgruntled Canadian. PS **** the liberals


----------



## CXVII (28 Apr 2004)

I get really upset with Americans who critisize the Canadian Forces. We are always there to support them in nearly all combat situations. We were that in 9/11 for the clean up at ground zero, we are there in Afghanastan in the fight to eradicate terrorism, and we also currently have troops in Iraq helping to stabalize law and order in THEIR war. Why are Americans so quick to jump on Canada‘s back when we are so quick to fight alongside them?


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (28 Apr 2004)

Ummmmm Zack, where are our troops in Iraq and who are they? I think that is news to all of us.


----------



## CXVII (28 Apr 2004)

I‘m pretty sure I heard on the news and from a few American friends of mine, I may be wrong, but I am just stating what I have heard.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (28 Apr 2004)

Here is a link that shows where all of our deployed units are:

 http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/operations/current_ops_e.asp


----------



## CXVII (28 Apr 2004)

Thanks man, my mistake. I must of mis-entruprated what I heard.


----------



## Goober (2 May 2004)

He probably made the comment to highlight our deficiencies to bring about change.


----------



## ZipperHead (2 May 2004)

There are (or were) Canadian troops in Iraq, however they are (were) on exchange with American and British units. It caused a bit of a stink when one of our politicos said that there aren‘t/weren‘t any Canadians in Iraq, and that tidbit came up. Not sure if they are still there anymore (clandestinely pulled out????).

I could be wrong, and I‘m sure that there will be no shortage of pers who will jump on me if that‘s the case.    

Al


----------



## DogOfWar (2 May 2004)

[No message]


----------



## Dan Gerous (2 May 2004)

i remember hearing about that.  there was an article on CBC about it .  One of the soldiers was actually diagnosed with PTSD. PM says Canadians may be in Iraq


----------



## Redeye (2 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Zack117:
> [qb] I get really upset with Americans who critisize the Canadian Forces. We are always there to support them in nearly all combat situations. We were that in 9/11 for the clean up at ground zero, we are there in Afghanastan in the fight to eradicate terrorism, and we also currently have troops in Iraq helping to stabalize law and order in THEIR war. Why are Americans so quick to jump on Canada‘s back when we are so quick to fight alongside them? [/qb]


We were not at Ground Zero for the clean (though it was offered the Americans declined our assistance, and Canada politely declined to join in the U.S. misadventure in Iraq.  Get your facts straight before you jump to conclusions.


----------



## atticus (2 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Allan Luomala:
> [qb] There are (or were) Canadian troops in Iraq, however they are (were) on exchange with American and British units. It caused a bit of a stink when one of our politicos said that there aren‘t/weren‘t any Canadians in Iraq, and that tidbit came up. Not sure if they are still there anymore (clandestinely pulled out????).
> 
> I could be wrong, and I‘m sure that there will be no shortage of pers who will jump on me if that‘s the case.
> ...


I seen on the news that there are a very small number of Canadian Sailors serving off the coast of Iraq on American ships. I think it was only 3 Canadians though.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (2 May 2004)

As for scrapping one or more elements of the military, I find it ironic that an American is in favour of this considering the growing trend for the US to point out how much of a free ride we are recieveing from them. Would not getting rid of the Air Force or Navy make them feel this way more? I think this individual needs a dose in reality.

Atticus I would be interested in knowing where you saw this regarding the Canadian Sailors serving on US ships, being in the navy I would like to find out more on this.


----------



## Bert (2 May 2004)

I think what Atticus was getting at was the odd CF member attached to American and British units
as regular exchanges during the recent conflict.  I remember a CBC news clip on this subject showing stock footage of AWACS, naval, and army units.  This is speculation but it wouldn‘t be difficult for Canadian naval vessels to be loosely associated with a US carrier battle group since they operated in the same waters at the time.


----------



## DogOfWar (2 May 2004)

[No message]


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (2 May 2004)

The problem is while I know there are exchange programs for the army and air force with the US, the only Naval postings for CF personnel in the US are shore based. The only way usually is a TD hence my interest.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (2 May 2004)

I cannot see that happening *gone* no matter what a US expert says. All 3 elements are here to say at a much reduced capability unless even more money goes into spending.


----------



## Bert (2 May 2004)

-gone-

Given the link and the information provided, its hard to say in what context the Advisor‘s comments were made.  The Americans have a different perspective of the world and funding base than Canada.  Its also interesting that military thinking/planning and equipment acquisition is evolving more so after the Cold War and events in the Gulf.  The question to scrap an element or not is silly.


----------



## DogOfWar (2 May 2004)

[No message]


----------



## rdschultz (2 May 2004)

> Originally posted by -gone-:
> [qb]
> But I gather its like cutting off your arm with a swiss army knife to save your life. [/qb]


That would be true, except for the fact that for any military to be effective it needs aspects of all three branches.  You can live without your arm quite well.  A nation cannot survive without sovereignty and the ability to protect it.

It‘d be more like using your swiss army knife to cut out your lungs... to save on CO2 emissions in the atmosphere or something.  (Lousy example probably, but its the first thing that popped into my head, and it illustrates my point).


----------



## Bill Smy (6 May 2004)

There is an old British maxim-

The first duty of government is the defence of the realm


----------



## commando_wolf63 (8 May 2004)

Hummm disbanding the Cdn Forces to me it sounds like a plan thought of by our neighbors to the South. Without a decent way of protecting ourselves would give them reason to move in and take what they want. Our natural resources since they wasted theirs. Not to mention our detriorating public health care to be replaced with for profit health care. The list continues


----------



## Mo` fella (9 May 2004)

> There is an old British maxim-
> 
> The first duty of government is the defence of the realm


Also We now see the lesson of wholesale disbandment, from Iraq...tens of thousands of suddenly unemployed angry young men in the streets of Toronto, Vancouver, St John‘s...


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (9 May 2004)

Commando...watch with the Anti American rhetoric here it will not be tolerated. Consider yourself warned.


----------

