# Your View on Churches and Mosques used as Block Houses



## 1feral1 (9 Apr 2004)

You know, a church, mosque place of worship is supposed to be a place of sanctuary, and a place to be safe.

But what happens when the ‘bad guys‘ decide to hole up in one, and turn the building into a block house, or bunker, if I may choose those words.

As much as I have respect for any place of worship, no matter what religion it belongs too, and if that bldg is now being used as a fortification and ‘our troops‘ are being targeted and KILLED from there, well I now see that sanctuary as jut another target.

Buildings can be re-built, and the lives of our soldiers cannot.

The cowards inside are hiding behind their religion and using their place of worship as both a weapon, and a propaganda tool for themselves to insight more hatred against the US led forces.

The Yanks dropped two 230kg HE smart bombs in the compound next to the mosque destroying only a wall.

At least the US are being politically correct here, and showing great restraint, trying to do as litle damage to the building as they can.

In my view if the EN will not surrender, and continue to fire upon the US forces, the EN forces inside the building should be destroyed without delay. 

If the building is wrecked in the incident, too bad, look what it was being used for. I dont think any god would be happy if their house was being used to target and kill others in such a cowardly fashion.

Mind you if the building was full of innocent women and kids being terrorised, and was being targeted, thats a different story, but its not is it!

Regards,

Wes


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## Ex-Dragoon (9 Apr 2004)

I am not religious by any means but I always thought that faith came from the inside and what kind of building you worship in. I think all combatants should respect the sanctity of holy ground whether a mosque synagogue or a church but if used as part of a fortification in the belief that the site will not be targetted that I think it should be taken out. Its obvious if they are using a mosque that they don‘t respect the faith of themeselves or the majority of their countrymen.


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## brin11 (9 Apr 2004)

Wes,

I totally agree.  I think its similar to certain individuals in Canada using churches as a sanctuary to prevent them from being deported from Canada.  This really infuriates me that religious leaders/congregations are allowing this to happen!  They are using religion as an excuse, yet again, to prevent something that has been legally ordered.  I wish the police would enter these sanctuaries and remove the individuals.

Freedom of religion does not mean that you should be able to keep deportees safe from removal simply because they are occupying your "building".


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## girlfiredup (10 Apr 2004)

If the enemy is firing at me, I‘m gonna be firing back regardless of where they are set up.  These buildings were built by man, not God.


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## winchable (10 Apr 2004)

GFU I‘d say that about sums up the Geneva convention‘s perspective on the matter, no touchy unless they‘re firing on you from inside the building in question. 

If a combatant doesn‘t have enough respect for a religious building to not use it as a bunker, than they can hardly cry injustice when their fire is returned, or in this case the building is destroyed.

Edit-Needed to clarify that


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## chk2fung (10 Apr 2004)

You learn some a lot of these rules in the Forces.  Some seem out of left field, for example do not destroy places of worship, only return fire in a similar fashion that it is given (ie. you cant nuke a sniper), can‘t shoot airborne troops, though i think it is in regards to pilots being shot down adn the list goes on.  In regards to blowing up a place of worship, it really has to be a judgment call.  It is in most persons minds that blowing up an enemy bunker is not the same as blowing u an enemy church unless the church is being used as a bunker.

Charles


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## willy (10 Apr 2004)

> Originally posted by chk2fung:
> ...can‘t shoot airborne troops, though i think it is in regards to pilots being shot down...
> Charles [/QB]


There is nothing in any of the Geneva conventions to prevent you from engaging airborne troops.  As for not being able to shoot pilots down, that is just right out of ‘er.  I‘m sure that members of the AD regiments will appreciate knowing that they‘re all war criminals.


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## chk2fung (10 Apr 2004)

In regards to after the AD guys have done there job, You can‘t shoot a pilot under canopy I believe.


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## willy (10 Apr 2004)

Well, I don‘t really understand what you‘re talking about here.  Do you mean a pilot who‘s crashed and is still sitting in his cockpit?  Regardless of where he‘s sitting, if he‘s still a combatant, i.e. if he went for his pistol, I think you‘d be pretty safe in engaging him with deadly force.


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## Jason Bourne (10 Apr 2004)

Come on guys be realistic...if a person is shooting at you from a church you return fire. I‘m a Christian and I would give ‘er all I got if I was getting shot at. Churches are replaceable..my life isn‘t.


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## rdschultz (10 Apr 2004)

willy:  I think he‘s referring to this:
 http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/y5pagc.htm 



> Article 42.-Occupants of aircraft
> 
> 1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.
> 
> ...


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## willy (10 Apr 2004)

Gotcha.  Misunderstanding on my part.


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## Slim (10 Apr 2004)

The terrorists are using it as a propaganda victory. They shoot from a church, we shoot them in the church, they say we are defiling their holy ground. We don‘t believe it but their own people do! And thats what counts for them right now.

Slim


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## xFusilier (10 Apr 2004)

Exactly,

Which shot makes for better television.  Effective En SA fire from a mosque, or the US Marines firing a TOW or Javelin at a mosque in response to the above.

Guaranteed that Al-Jazeera(sp?) notwithstanding, CNN, Fox, BBC and Sky will show the later rather than the former, simply because it makes for better TV.


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## Jarnhamar (11 Apr 2004)

Great post Wes.
I was really disapointed thursday morning reading an article in my home town news paper. It was about americans dropping a bomb on that mosque. The article totally made the americans out to be the bad guys. It basically said the americans attacked this mosque killing 40 people inside. thats it. Didn‘t mention once that terrorists were inside firing at the american soldiers.
Are people this dumb?  I mean if someone from iraq is using one of their own temples of worship to ‘KILL‘ someone else, how sacred are these places? 
If someone is that upset over it they should go to iraq and ask the guys inside to leave and see how easy it is.


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## 1feral1 (11 Apr 2004)

Hey Ghost,

Try www.islamicsydney.com and go to forums and current affairs. Plus patrol through the other topics. This is an Australian site, and its a shocker. 

Hard to believe that such shyte can appear, but I guess thats the price of freedom, allowing crap like this because of the 100s of thousands of generations of Allied forces before them fought and died so such freedoms could be there for us all.

At the end of the day the website is in bad taste, and tarnishs the lot. 

Yes the majority of these people are in Sydney, and many scare me with their attitudes. Are they Australians, or just msulims living in Australia putting their belief before their country. Thats pretty sad.

Mind you there are a few sensable ones who post too, but the majority are  "right out of ‘er". 

Being on the safe side ASIO I am sure patrols this site and gathers what INT they can from it.

It sickens me when I read comments ( by some loser who calls himself ‘Panther‘ like "pound ‘em brothers" in regrds to 12 USMC KIA the other day.

As far as I am concerned thats treason, and quite sickening, as I compare that to nazis running amuck 60 yrs ago in our own countries. They would have beeen gaoled quicksmart.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Jarnhamar (11 Apr 2004)

I‘ll never understand these guys.  I can picture them trying to argue that the world is flat.
Like the guy you mentioned is cheering on the death of american soldiers. Not even that, he is cheering on the death of human beings. What a noble thing to do eh? Take joy over killing a human being. These guys are just as bad or even worse than the terrorists.

It‘s scarry these type of people are out there. Think i‘ll go say hello on that bored though.


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## 1feral1 (11 Apr 2004)

Yes mate SICK is an understatment. Its people like this who should just ‘disappear without a trace‘.

And where did this lot get their morals from? Not computer games, or rock music, but their parents! Some culture, eh?

Even more sad id the fact, if they whinge and complain about the west and all it stands for, why dont they go HOME and fight for what they believe in? 

But you and I know they could never get away with what they do here back there, and they would never have it so good either.

It sickens me to the fact that ‘trash‘ like this exists, but its even worse when they are in your own country, and your own city.

Regards,

Wes


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## Infanteer (12 Apr 2004)

Wow, pretty wacky ***t on that site.  How about the one guy who stated "I am done, Time to start Preparing".

It appears that violence is becoming much more mainstream when the moderator of that site openly allows those kinds of statements.

This is only going to get worse.

As for targeting mosques used as blockhouses...it never stopped us in WWII.  Just look at the Kriegskirche in Berlin.


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## 1feral1 (12 Apr 2004)

You‘re not wrong! But rest assured Inf, the security forces are watching, and personally I dont mind sacrificing a few of my freedoms so ‘pig shyte‘ like you have seen and read for yourself, are caught up in the trap. 

Sydney is a power base for AQ and related groups. Thats a fact, the baddies are being monitered. But then they whinge and say they‘re rights are being violated! 

What about the rights of the 202 people killed at bali, of which 89 were Australians, and have no rights becuase they were murdered in cold blood, so atomissed by the blast and only a few body parts were left and DNA was used to identify, say a finger.

Their killers are now in gaol, laugh and call Australians dogs and monkeys. Their 5.56mm ball rds await, as they have been sentaced to death by the Indonesian govt, but do a wait out on that as their sentance has been appealed, and they could be, get this... FREE by August!

Mate, I am truly hardline with all this shyte, and I beleive in ZERO tolernace with terror and those who support it, as does mainsteam Australia.
with exception of the minorites of course. 

Fact is not all muslims are terrorists, but today most terrorists are muslims, and the moderate ones refuse to acknowlege that for they fear they will be victimised by the radicals within.

As for the moderators on www.islamicsydney.com openly say they will edit or delete any posts they feel are not fitting, which means they will delete the truth, or points of view of others to secure their twisted and murderous ways, putting things the way they see it.

A few islamic sites here in Australia have been shut down because of their open hatred towards non-muslims. 

A really bad group here is IYM, the Islamic Youth Movement, who are known to be armed, as at their trg areas, have been found to contain large volumes of 7.62 x 39mm and 5.56 x 45mm spent casings along with 12ga shotgun shells too.

That frightnes me mate.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Brad Sallows (13 Apr 2004)

A normally protected facility can lose its protection if it used by combatants.  Some common sense should be applied.  I would not expect a particularly important site to be destroyed if a piquet-and-starve approach could work.


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## 1feral1 (13 Apr 2004)

Wanna read what muslims in Sydney think of the US which they refer to United Satan on www.islamicsydeny.com Go to forums, current affairs and have a look what the ones living in Australia have to say. Pretty scarey?

Cheers,

Wes


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## 1feral1 (13 Apr 2004)

As long as they still got ammo, and are targetting Alled troops and civvys in the area, the P and S method wont work.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Brad Sallows (13 Apr 2004)

I wasn‘t thinking that an aperature couldn‘t be liberally hosed down with 0.50 if a shot is fired from it.  I was thinking the building shouldn‘t necessarily be razed.


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