# CF Pers and national political involvement



## career_radio-checker (28 Nov 2005)

I have a question. Would there be a conflict of interest if I volunteered at my MPs election campaign / Ottawa office?


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## xFusilier (28 Nov 2005)

I don't know if there would be a conflict of interest per se, but there is a general idea that serving members of the military, much like public servants, should not engage in party politics.  I believe this stems from the idea that they are servants of the crown and the crown must remain removed from the vulgarity of partisanship.


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## ambex (28 Nov 2005)

Iam no expert but I dont think there would be a problem with you helping out, maybee if you were running in the election itself there would be a problem.

Just watched the government "fall" on cpac.


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## alan_li_13 (28 Nov 2005)

I think I remember something about members are not to be members of any Political party as must show that we are obedient of the party in power no matter our politics. I'm not sure if volunteering would count as that though.

From seeing the Sympatico MSN news section, the election will be expected on 23 Jan in the new year.


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## Britney Spears (28 Nov 2005)

I haven't looked at the pam for this, but I don't see any problem with you being involved in the election proccess, as long as you don't represent your opinions as being the official opinion of your unit or the CF; i.e. don't go about doing it in uniform or some such. 

Oohh, If I get to vote, it will be my very first election as a new(ish)Canadian citizen!    But who should I vote for? I am really a little lost on this, as I don't know much about Canadian Politics or the histories of the parties...  ???


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## Goober (28 Nov 2005)

I'm sure you can volunteer for Elections Canada, or even get paid to work there. They run the elections, and they are not party biased.


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## career_radio-checker (28 Nov 2005)

Thanks for the input. I will have to consult my chain o' command for further details. Guess I should have done that before I gave my name into the volunteer hat at my MP's Ottawa office... aaaaaah crap   :brickwall:


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## Dizzy (28 Nov 2005)

I can't recall the QR&O, but I believe full time members of the armed forces are not permitted to work for political parties. It doesn't mention reservists.


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## career_radio-checker (28 Nov 2005)

My judgement is that by volunteering for my MP I would be proactive in the system which I swore an oath to protect while at the same time I would be safe from accusations of partisanship or conflict of interest because I am renduring my time without cost or benefits. I just have to behave and stick to my home constituency and not be an advocate for the military. Agree or disagree?


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## NavComm (29 Nov 2005)

I will consult with my unit, but my civvie boss will be running for a left wing party in the upcoming fed election. I built his website last time, now after reading this thread I wonder if I'm allowed to do that? Is that partisan? Is that against the ruling party? Oh my. I thought we are free to affiliate with any party as long as we don't publically diss the reigning party? I'm going to have to call my unit on  this one. Oh by jesus, I don't want to do that website if it interferes with my CF career!


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## S McKee (29 Nov 2005)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> My judgement is that by volunteering for my MP I would be proactive in the system which I swore an oath to protect while at the same time I would be safe from accusations of partisanship or conflict of interest because I am renduring my time without cost or benefits. I just have to behave and stick to my home constituency and not be an advocate for the military. Agree or disagree?



Instead of banging your head against a wall over this, why don't you make like the sneaker commercial and "Just do it". There are regulations concerning CF members' involvement with political parties but IMO who cares? If you feel strongly enough to become involved in the political process my hat's off to you. I plan on joining a political party myself.


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## Monsoon (29 Nov 2005)

It is permitted for CF members to belong to parties and volunteer on campaigns, much as it is permitted for us to vote.  If you are volunteering, it should not be in the capacity of a "CF member", but as a private citizen only - i.e. don't go on walkabouts with your candidate in uniform or make a point of advertising your job.  CF members may not seek elected office because of the inherent conflicts of interest involved; I believe it is customary for active reservists to go into the Supplementary Holding Reserve while campaigning and to go back into the PRes if they lose.


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## kincanucks (29 Nov 2005)

General guidance found here:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/099-09_e.asp

Remember CDF prevails, if it doesn't feel right then it isn't.


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## 3rd Horseman (30 Nov 2005)

Hamitongs has it right.

  In the last election I ran as a candidate for nomination to my party and had several military members helping out.  
    You can join a political party (just not the commy one) and I encourage you to be a member of a political party. You must be as said before out of uniform and not use your rank unit or name of the CF in any conversation or correspondence no matter how innocent you think it is. I would not suggest you pass it by your unit chain of command as they may have differing views and that will affect your future even if they are wrong. See you on the campaign trail!


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## S McKee (30 Nov 2005)

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> It is permitted for CF members to belong to parties and volunteer on campaigns, much as it is permitted for us to vote.   If you are volunteering, it should not be in the capacity of a "CF member", but as a private citizen only - i.e. don't go on walkabouts with your candidate in uniform or make a point of advertising your job.   CF members may not seek elected office because of the inherent conflicts of interest involved; I believe it is customary for active reservists to go into the Supplementary Holding Reserve while campaigning and to go back into the PRes if they lose.





			
				3rd Horseman said:
			
		

> Hamitongs has it right.
> 
> In the last election I ran as a candidate for nomination to my party and had several military members helping out.
> You can join a political party (just not the commy one) and I encourage you to be a member of a political party. You must be as said before out of uniform and not use your rank unit or name of the CF in any conversation or correspondence no matter how innocent you think it is. I would not suggest you pass it by your unit chain of command as they may have differing views and that will affect your future even if they are wrong. See you on the campaign trail!



According to QR&O 19.44

No member of the Regular Force shall:
   
  (7) (a) take an active part in the affairs of a political organization or party;
    

  (b) make a political speech to electors, or announce himself or allow himself to be announced as a candidate, or prospective candidate, for election to the Parliament of Canada or a provincial legislature; or
     
  (c) except with the permission of the Chief of the Defence Staff, accept an office in a municipal corporation or other local government body or allow himself to be nominated for election to such office.

I don't know how it works for Reserves


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## Hunter (30 Nov 2005)

NavComm said:
			
		

> I will consult with my unit, but my civvie boss will be running for a left wing party in the upcoming fed election. I built his website last time, now after reading this thread I wonder if I'm allowed to do that? Is that partisan? Is that against the ruling party? Oh my. I thought we are free to affiliate with any party as long as we don't publically diss the reigning party? I'm going to have to call my unit on   this one. Oh by jesus, I don't want to do that website if it interferes with my CF career!



Speaking from my own experience - my dad is a politician and in civvie land I'm a web developer - you are allowed.   And government employees are allowed to take membershp in political parties, volunteer for campaigns, and display lawn signs.   There was a time that this was not exactly forbidden, but it was frowned upon.   As far as working (and being paid) for a political party, I believe the rules depend on the department and position held.

I would encourage everyone who reads this to volunteer this time around. But like Jumper said don't do it in uniform.   Choose who you like and then get involved.   Deliver some brochures, put up a sign, wear a button.   Be part of the solution, not the problem.


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## a_majoor (30 Nov 2005)

*The rules are the same for both Regular and Reserves:*



> 19.44 - POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND CANDIDATURE FOR OFFICE
> (1) For the purposes of this article:
> "political advertising" means advertising, the purpose of which is to gain support for the election of a candidate for federal, provincial or
> municipal office or to gain support for, or to encourage some action in support of, the maintenance or change of a policy that is the
> ...


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## career_radio-checker (1 Dec 2005)

a_majoor said:
			
		

> Quote
> 19.44 - POLI
> 
> 
> ...



Ok so I read this in detail and the jist is pretty simple. 
1. Don't compromise the neutrality of the forces (easily done by not advertising the fact that you are in the CF and not being in Uniform while working for the MP. Basically, treat it as an 'affair' and don't let the two ever meet.)
2. No campagning on DND property (of course) 
3. Commanding officers can hold debates on base as long as they invite all the parties (tee hee. that means he has to invite the communist party)
4. No Regular Force member may be politicaly active. (unfair if you ask me but that's the loop hole i don't want to get my neck in. Some of you say it applies to ALL members but others say I can because I'm a reservist.)

I have questions I'd like to contact my colon o' command but because of what 3'rd horseman said I feel that I can't/shouldn't. 
comments?


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## a_majoor (1 Dec 2005)

I did ask my chain of command (WRT Municipal elections actually), and the answer was a resounding NO except for running for municipal office.

Attending all candidate meetings, asking questions,and voting are very clear areas you can go into.

Working for/with a declared candidate during the election is murky, but I would advise to use common sense and discretion. Don't forget, other people out there know you are a service member, and even if you don't identify yourself as a CF member, you might get "outed", with possible negative consequences.

Regular readers will be well aware that there are some politicians/political parties that I would sooner kick in the conjones, but for what's left of the democratic process to work, we at least should respect the rules and work within them.


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## Joe Blow (1 Dec 2005)

> (7) No member of the Regular Force shall:
> (a) take an active part in the affairs of a political organization or party



This would seem to include things like taking part in riding association votes for things like sending delegates to convention X. or supporting policy initiative Y..  or voting in leadership elections and things like that..  Which is all pretty much what being an active member of the party is all about.  

So.. am I allowed to take an _inactive_ part in the party then, and just hang-10 with my name on the register for the sake of being there?  This line seems to remove the option of meaningful partisan political involvement beyond voting.

They really should have mentioned this during the recruiting process.  Maybe I'll take a don't-ask-don't-tell approach to this one.  ..At least until someone tells me that I am responsible for knowing the contents of  QR&O article 19.44.

..Anyway, I don't need to worry about it for 15 more days.  ;D


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## a_majoor (2 Dec 2005)

Like I said, there is a grey area here, but if I were you, I would declare your intention to your chain of command, ensure you stay firmly inside your arcs (no uniform, never get involved in discussions about CF policy etc.), and perhaps minimize the possibility of accidents by taking some sort of position where you stay inside the office and stuff envelopes or post pictures on the web site.

You may have the best of intentions, but most political parties play very rough these days, and if the opposition thinks they can score points against your "team" by using you or your afilliation with the CF against them, don't think for a second they won't. (One party thinks it's OK to steal $100 million tax dollars, so you are just road kill in the big scheme of things). 

Remember, be careful out there.


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## NavComm (4 Dec 2005)

Thanks everyone for replying. I haven't been online much in the last few days, so I apologize for the delay in getting back to this thread.

I went through my chain of command and I've gotten the ok because it's a civilian contract. I'm not promoting the candidate one way or the other, I'm just doing a website, which I've done in my civvie life many times. So it came right down from the CO that it's ok for me to do it.

BTW I don't vote in the candidates riding, I don't know if that matters or not.


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## COBRA-6 (8 Dec 2005)

During the last election a senior reserve officer from my CBG was a candidate. He went on ED&T while campaigning. As long as you make no mention of being a CF mbr you're good to go.


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## ZKC (1 Feb 2017)

*Sorry in advance if similar posts have been made before I couldn't find them/didn't know the right terms to search*

Is there any policy against a caf member becoming a registered member of a federal political party? I remember that we were told in basic to not publicly express our political opinion, but the details just faded into memories with all the powerpoints... 

Cheers


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## ZKC (1 Feb 2017)

mariomike said:
			
		

> You are a Reservist?
> 
> CF Pers and national political involvement
> http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/36903/post-302554.html#msg302554


Yes I am, thank you Mariomike I found the answer in that thread. Always helpful


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## mariomike (1 Feb 2017)

ZKC said:
			
		

> Yes I am, thank you Mariomike I found the answer in that thread. Always helpful



You are welcome. Good luck!


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