# CH-178



## Drallib (25 Jun 2020)

> Back in 2008, Canadian forces operating in Afghanistan realised they lacked medium size strategic lift helicopters. They decided to purchase CH-47D Chinook from the US. While the transaction was negotiated and pushed through, Ottawa decided to lease several Chinook from the USAF... Unfortunately, jumping through all the administrative hoops took time and the Canadian troops in Afghanistan needed a good suitable helo asap...
> 
> That is how, very very quietly, the Royal Canadian Air Force leased 4 Mi-17V5 from Russia in 2009. They were renamed CH-178 in the Canadian inventory... The 4 units were first exclusively flown by the 427 Special Operations Aviation Squadron (427 SOAS), but soon enough, they began flying both combat and transport missions with all Canadian units in Afghanistan. The Hip was considered well suited for Afghanistan harsh climate, dust and high altitude operations. Both pilots and maintenance crews appreciated the Mi-17 as a robust and capable platform which was also cheaper to acquire and operate than the Chinook.
> 
> ...


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## MilEME09 (25 Jun 2020)

I wish this was an April fools, but nope it happened, and goes to show how much of a reactionary type of mind set our successive governments have to defense matters.


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## dimsum (25 Jun 2020)

Which article did the OP quote?  Or was it his/her own writing?

Just curious so I can read some more about it.  I saw them in the flesh at KAF.


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## dapaterson (25 Jun 2020)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Which article did the OP quote?  Or was it his/her own writing?
> 
> Just curious so I can read some more about it.  I saw them in the flesh at KAF.



Looks like it originated on Facebook about a year ago.

https://www.facebook.com/defensionemwarbible/posts/canadian-ch-178back-in-2008-canadian-forces-operating-in-afghanistan-realised-th/638841463293174/


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## Good2Golf (25 Jun 2020)

Drallib, please note that the Milnet.ca Guidelines require posters to include links to quoted material. 


> • You will properly attribute any quotes to the appropriate author or speaker.



As well, while not a hard requirement per the guidelines, it is considered good form to provide some of your own text in the post to provide context or insight into the quotation, not just a straight quote with no other information added.  This is why my quotation of your post is devoid of anything, because the quote function removes nested quotation material by default...nothing there but someone else’s (unattributed) material. 

Regards

*Milnet.ca Staff*


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## Drallib (25 Jun 2020)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> Drallib, please note that the Milnet.ca Guidelines require posters to include links to quoted material.
> As well, while not a hard requirement per the guidelines, it is considered good form to provide some of your own text in the post to provide context or insight into the quotation, not just a straight quote with no other information added.  This is why my quotation of your post is devoid of anything, because the quote function removes nested quotation material by default...nothing there but someone else’s (unattributed) material.
> 
> Regards
> ...



Understood! I'll do so next time.

Thank you dapaterson for submitting the link.


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## CBH99 (25 Jun 2020)

I had absolutely no idea, and I followed our operations there pretty closely.  Thanks for the info & pics!  Wow...


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## blacktriangle (25 Jun 2020)

Fairly certain there are some photos of them in a book that got published. I think it was "Shadow Warriors" by Col Bernd Horn, but I could be wrong.


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## dapaterson (25 Jun 2020)

reverse_engineer said:
			
		

> Fairly certain there are some photos of them in a book that got published. I think it was "Shadow Warriors" by Col Bernd Horn, but I could be wrong.



So, no reputable sources then...


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## blacktriangle (25 Jun 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> So, no reputable sources then...



I've always been skeptical of anyone holding a rank higher than Capt.  ;D


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## Good2Golf (25 Jun 2020)

One has to assume that there is a valid reason why only so much information is available publicly to this day.  There has been at least a decade to ATIP info on the CH-178.  Unless the ATIP policy changes or DND de-classifies related information, fair to believe there is likely no more information forthcoming from DND on the subject.  

G2G


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## dapaterson (25 Jun 2020)

Do you mean to suggest that Special Operations forces (such as 427 Squadron, as mentioned in the article) and information pertaining to them is held close?  WHO KNEW?


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## Good2Golf (25 Jun 2020)

A surprise to some, no doubt.


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## Colin Parkinson (25 Jun 2020)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> One has to assume that there is a valid reason why only so much information is available publicly to this day.  There has been at least a decade to ATIP info on the CH-178.  Unless the ATIP policy changes or DND de-classifies related information, fair to believe there is likely no more information forthcoming from DND on the subject.
> 
> G2G



Of course you could ask the supplier of the helicopters and pilots, I was under the impression that these were Polish pilots and machines?


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## Good2Golf (25 Jun 2020)

Of course if you know who the supplier and pilots were, then you actually don’t need to ask them.


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## garb811 (25 Jun 2020)

Yep, the coverup was so well executed, the Defence Minister spoke about it publicly when the deal was signed...


> Canada to lease Russian-built copters for use in Afghanistan, MacKay says
> MURRAY BREWSTER
> OTTAWA
> The Canadian Press
> ...


He even said which company the lease was with and more...


> Opposition wants to know more about leased choppers
> CTV.ca News Staff
> Published Thursday, August 7, 2008 10:20PM EDT
> Last Updated Friday, May 18, 2012 8:45PM EDT
> ...


And then, wow, the fact Canadians were piloting them eventually came out as well..


> Tories mum on Russian choppers lease
> Social Sharing
> CBC News · Posted: Nov 24, 2010 9:05 PM ET | Last Updated: November 24, 2010
> 
> ...


Amazing what one can find via Google.


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## CBH99 (25 Jun 2020)

I, as well as most other 'gracefully aging' folks here, remember the helicopters being leashed until our D models came online.

I hadn't seen them with the "Canada" paint prior to today.  Never thought I'd see that unless it was photoshopped...


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## Colin Parkinson (25 Jun 2020)

http://skylinkaviation.com/


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## daftandbarmy (25 Jun 2020)

FWIW, alot of logging companies invest in Russian choppers like the MI-8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xTcEGS_xB0


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## blacktriangle (25 Jun 2020)

The use of Mi-17 by CANSOFCOM has been posted on official CAF twitter in the past: 

https://twitter.com/CanadianForces/status/786925455681126400

There's no secret or conspiracy. At the same time though, I think G2G summed it up nicely.


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## Drallib (26 Jun 2020)

The only reason I’ve ever heard of it was because I was chatting with a guy in Ops and he mentioned it because one of the Pilots at the squadron flew it when he was with 427.

I did a forum search on here to see if anyone else discussed it at all but didn’t find anything, so I just wanted to share that knowledge.


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