# MARS Officer



## Leo791989 (2 Aug 2006)

Any Current or former MARS officers here. I am interested in this MOC and would like to know few things about this trade.
Thank You


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## navymich (2 Aug 2006)

I am not a MARS officer, but I have taught parts of MARS courses ashore, been a part of far too many MARS courses at sea, and have always had a MARS officer as a boss.  I might not be able to answer anything exactly specific, but I can still answer alot that you might have.  As well, there are (too many  ;D) MARS-bars on the site, so post your questions, and they will get answered.


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## Leo791989 (2 Aug 2006)

Anyhow I've gotta lot of info on this trade in regards to training,life as a MARS officer, working conditions,duties,hours etc etc.
But what I wanted to know was the initial process. I applied for Air Force Pilot and there were things like Cycloplegic Eye Exam, Air Crew Selection etc which you had to go through before getting an offer. Is there any sort of test(s) or exam(s) for MARS MOC.


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## Leo791989 (2 Aug 2006)

Navymich
thanks for your prompt reply. Yeah I just wanted to know about the intitial processes to get an offer for MARS officer, as mentioned above in my previous post.


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## navymich (2 Aug 2006)

Leo791989 said:
			
		

> Is there any sort of test(s) or exam(s) for MARS MOC.



No, just a few extra questions that you have to answer at CFRC: do you sink or float, do you know your port (left) from starboard (right), can you master a blank stare, and can you say "aye aye Captain" without too much disdain in your voice?

Seriously though, I don't know the answer for sure, to what you are asking.  If that was the only question you had regarding the MARS trade, this thread might actually be better suited for the Recruiting board.


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## Torlyn (2 Aug 2006)

Leo791989 said:
			
		

> Navymich
> thanks for your prompt reply. Yeah I just wanted to know about the intitial processes to get an offer for MARS officer, as mentioned above in my previous post.



You will first receive an invitation to go sit a NOAB.  (Naval Officer Assesment Board).  At the board, which is usually five days, you will be introduced to the Navy, through (usually) a Lt. (N) and a PO.  They will give you tours of the base you're at (either Esquimalt or Halifax) you'll go on a day sail, and you WILL do some testing.  Nothing you can prepare for, nor anything I can discuss, just be yourself, know your grade 10 math, and enjoy your time.  On the Friday, you will sit the actual board.  You will be in an interview with several senior officers (for me it was 2 Commanders and a Lt. Commander).  Those three will then deliberate over your file, taking in to account your original application, your behaviour at the NOAB, test scores, interview answers, etc.

If they think you MAY have what it takes, they will offer you a position.  If they don't, it's nothing personal.  MARS is not for everyone.  Keep in mind, MARS has one of the highest failure rates for an MOC in the Canadian Forces.  Like all MOC's, it is extremely demanding.  If you are not 100% behind your choice, rethink your decision.

That's it in a nutshell.  If you make it through basic and out to Esquimalt for SLT, congrats.  Prepare to work and study your ass off for the next 5 years.  (And I'm serious about that...  SLT and NETP-O (MARS 2) are relatively easy, but watching the people going through MARS III and IV is pretty damned scary.  If you're not prepared to put in a full work day and six hours of studying every night after that, re-evaluate what you're looking for.

If you're still interested, by all means apply.  MARS (In my totally limited, biased experience) is the best MOC out there.  Mind you, you're in the Navy, and we all know that the Navy rules all.  Three cheers for the senior service!    Good luck.

T


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## andpro (2 Aug 2006)

You don't have to go through this board if you are going the ROTP route. I have been accepted as MARS but I'm afraid that I won't be able to answer your questions as I have not done any training yet.


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## navymich (2 Aug 2006)

andpro said:
			
		

> You don't have to go through this board if you are going the ROTP route. I have been accepted as MARS but I'm afraid that I won't be able to answer your questions as I have not done any training yet.



You actually might be one of the better ones to answer his question, as you are recent through the process.  If you read again, you'll see that his questions weren't about the training aspect:


> But what I wanted to know was the initial process. I applied for Air Force Pilot and there were things like Cycloplegic Eye Exam, Air Crew Selection etc which you had to go through before getting an offer. Is there any sort of test(s) or exam(s) for MARS MOC.


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## andpro (2 Aug 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> You actually might be one of the better ones to answer his question, as you are recent through the process.  If you read again, you'll see that his questions weren't about the training aspect:


My mistake. The process for me was like any other applicant applying for any trades that don't require any extra testing. I can't speak for any other entry plan but through my experience in ROTP I have not had to sit a NOAB or have been told about a NOAB. 
Hope this helps


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## kincanucks (2 Aug 2006)

_You don't have to go through this board if you are going the ROTP route._

Are you sure of that? Don't worry you will go sooner or later.


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## andpro (2 Aug 2006)

I have never been told that I have to sit a board and it doesn't say anything about it on th recruiting site. I could be wrong, I may yet be in for a surprise.


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## andpro (2 Aug 2006)

Why would they accept me before I sat said board? They don't accept pilots before aircrew selection. 
Edit: any MARS officers who went the ROTP route want to give their 2 cents go ahead.


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## kincanucks (2 Aug 2006)

andpro said:
			
		

> Why would they accept me before I sat said board? They don't accept pilots before aircrew selection.
> Edit: any MARS officers who went the ROTP route want to give their 2 cents go ahead.



It is called a time issue as most NOABs are not held in the ROTP season and if you don't pass NOAB you will be reassigned to another occupation.

_They don't accept pilots before aircrew selection._

Oh yes they do.


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## Leo791989 (3 Aug 2006)

Thanks a lot for all the answers guys. I appreciate that.
With my experience, I knew a guy at ACS in Trenton that was offered Pilot MOC before doing his Air Crew Selection. So, Iam sure it is possible to get a conditional offer as a MARS officer with a future condition that you WILL pass the NOABs.
Anyhow with all the answers in this post and with my personal experience I conclude that I should follow the normal/regular process of applying as a ROTP MARS Officer and go from there. 
So, after all this my question is what do I need to do to make my initial application competitive enough to be considered for future NOABs or even a conditional offer(pending NOABs) for ROTP MARS.
Also, what kinda question/answers can I expect during my interview at the RECRUITING CENTRE. The reason I want to know is that interview will be debriefed/discussed again at NOABs..(i could be wrong).
Also, current or past MARS officers if you could shed some light on what needs to be done(things that are in my control) to be accepted at NOABs..I thought I'd ask this now cos it all co-relates.

Thanks again.


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## Leo791989 (3 Aug 2006)

Sorry another quick bit of info. The reason I asked questions about interview etc cos in my Pilot interview I was asked why I wanted to be a pilot and of course my answer couldn't be something where I just woke up and wanted to be a pilot. Plus I am sure with my MARS interview at the CFRC, my previous application(for pilot) might/might not be discussed or looked at?????
Thanks


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## navymich (3 Aug 2006)

You might want to start with proper grammar and spelling, and ensure that how you type and post does not spill into your spoken words:



			
				Leo791989 said:
			
		

> ...Also, what kinda kind of  question/answers ...I thought I'd ask this now cos because it all co-relates...





			
				Leo791989 said:
			
		

> ...cos because in my Pilot interview ...


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## Phrontis (3 Aug 2006)

The Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB) is intended for candidates potentially coming into MARS and Naval Technical Officer (NTO) classifications who either already have a degree (Direct Entry Officers - DEOs) or don't have a degree yet (Continuing Education Officer Training Programme - CEOTP).  If you join as ROTP, either military college or civilian university, you don't do an NOAB.

The NOAB is a really good process, because as much as it's the Navy looking at and evaluating you, you get to look at and evaluate the Navy, so that hopefully if you do get an offer you can make a more informed decision.

Once you're in you'd undergo basic training in St. Jean, second language training (SLT) for 33 weeks in HMC Dockyard in Esquimalt (unless you're already bilingual), and then a bit less than a year's worth of dedicated MARS training at VENTURE, The Naval Officers Training Centre in Esquimalt, before joining the Fleet, either west or east coast.

I hope that's of some help.


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## andpro (3 Aug 2006)

Phrontis said:
			
		

> The Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB) is intended for candidates potentially coming into MARS and Naval Technical Officer (NTO) classifications who either already have a degree (Direct Entry Officers - DEOs) or don't have a degree yet (Continuing Education Officer Training Programme - CEOTP).  If you join as ROTP, either military college or civilian university, you don't do an NOAB.


This is what I thought but I wasn't completely sure.


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## andpro (3 Aug 2006)

Leo791989 said:
			
		

> Sorry another quick bit of info. The reason I asked questions about interview etc cos in my Pilot interview I was asked why I wanted to be a pilot and of course my answer couldn't be something where I just woke up and wanted to be a pilot. Plus I am sure with my MARS interview at the CFRC, my previous application(for pilot) might/might not be discussed or looked at?????
> Thanks


When you do your interview at the CFRC it is for all of the choices on the application, they ask you about each MOC and all kinds of different questions. They give you the MOC that they have the requirement for, it would also depend on how you did on the air crew selection.


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## kincanucks (3 Aug 2006)

Phrontis said:
			
		

> The Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB) is intended for candidates potentially coming into MARS and Naval Technical Officer (NTO) classifications who either already have a degree (Direct Entry Officers - DEOs) or don't have a degree yet (Continuing Education Officer Training Programme - CEOTP).  If you join as ROTP, either military college or civilian university, you don't do an NOAB.
> 
> The NOAB is a really good process, because as much as it's the Navy looking at and evaluating you, you get to look at and evaluate the Navy, so that hopefully if you do get an offer you can make a more informed decision.
> 
> ...



Deleted because I have better things to do.


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## Leo791989 (3 Aug 2006)

"it would also depend on how you did on the air crew selection".

I don't get it. What do you mean my interview will depend on how I did on my ACS. I thought even if you fail your Air Crew Selection, your future applications would not be affected by it............confused.....


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## kincanucks (3 Aug 2006)

Leo791989 said:
			
		

> "it would also depend on how you did on the air crew selection".
> 
> I don't get it. What do you mean my interview will depend on how I did on my ACS. I thought even if you fail your Air Crew Selection, your future applications would not be affected by it............confused.....



The first thing you start doing is stop listening to andpro.  Your interview for MARS will have absolutely nothing to do with how you did on the CFASC.  Not everyone makes it through CFASC and the recruiting certainly does not hold that against you.  Know the occupations that you want and give the best possible answers to the questions posed and good luck.


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## Leo791989 (4 Aug 2006)

Kincanucks
thanks a lot and thanks to everybody else that contributed to this topic.
Will keep you guys posted once I submit my application.


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## andpro (4 Aug 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> The first thing you start doing is stop listening to andpro.  Your interview for MARS will have absolutely nothing to do with how you did on the CFASC.  Not everyone makes it through CFASC and the recruiting certainly does not hold that against you.  Know the occupations that you want and give the best possible answers to the questions posed and good luck.





			
				Leo791989 said:
			
		

> "it would also depend on how you did on the air crew selection".
> 
> I don't get it. What do you mean my interview will depend on how I did on my ACS. I thought even if you fail your Air Crew Selection, your future applications would not be affected by it............confused.....


I did not mean that your air crew selection would affect your MARS interview, I said that your ACS would obviously affect what MOC you were given because if you faild (hopefully not) you obviously would not get offered pilot. Sorry that my previous post was confusing. 
good luck


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## Leo791989 (7 Aug 2006)

Folks,
Thanks again for all the valuable info on MARS trade.
Quick question for those who know this. 
Lets say you get accepted as ROTP MARS officer and you clear your Basic and SLT. But you don't make it past MARS I or II. Then what happens. Do they just let you go even though they're paying or paid for your remaining years at Civie University or they put you in a different trade. And if they do what trade would they put you in?
Thanks


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## Torlyn (7 Aug 2006)

Leo791989 said:
			
		

> Lets say you get accepted as ROTP MARS officer and you clear your Basic and SLT. But you don't make it past MARS I or II. Then what happens. Do they just let you go even though they're paying or paid for your remaining years at Civie University or they put you in a different trade. And if they do what trade would they put you in?
> Thanks



Stop second-guessing yourself.  If you have that attitude going in, you're not going to make it.  MARS I is basic training.  MARS II is NETP-O, which is not difficult.  MARS III and IV are where it get tough, fyi.  You need to have the confidence in yourself, before anyone else will.  As for failing, depending on how badly you fail, and what your CTO thinks of your performance, you can either be recoursed, recommended for release, or offered a new trade.  As for which new trade, it depends why you failed.  I think I know where you're going with this, and the likelihood of getting something like ANAV after failing MARS is fairly slim, but it's not something you'll know until you're in the process.  Again, good luck.

T


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## IN HOC SIGNO (7 Aug 2006)

Leo791989 said:
			
		

> Kincanucks
> thanks a lot and thanks to everybody else that contributed to this topic.
> Will keep you guys posted once I submit my application.



I dont know how helpful this will be as it's rather dated. I was selected in 1977 for MARS training at the board. Basic and MARS 2 were pretty easy. Some guys dropped out due to seasickness or claustrophobia MARS 3 was tough we were working everyday night on our passages till after midnight and then executing them the next day...the day started at 0700. MARS 4 Common was hard...astro navigation. and MARS 4 on the ships was pretty tough too...4 months of working on passges and getting our Bridge Watch Keeping ticket.
We had rules of the road exams every week and had to get over 80% on all exams. LIke the other guy said it was a lot of hard work and study.
I know a lot of it is done on simulators now but the work load remains as far as I know.
Good luck and God bless


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## Phrontis (8 Aug 2006)

I've had a fair bit of experience with MARS training, and as Torlyn says above, attitude is so very important.  Your level of self confidence will be readily apparent to the people assessing you, and in many cases a positive "can do" approach can overcome many obstacles, and make the difference between passing and failing any given run in the simulator.  Yes, the system of marking strives to remove any subjectivity, but you're already half beaten if you go into it with a negative attitude.

And honestly, if push comes to shove and someone fails and finds themselves in front of a Training Review Board (TRB), a positive attitude and professional demeanour can go a long way toward tipping the final decision of the Board in favour of a full or partial recourse.

Is this fair?  Darn tootin'.  A MARS officer is first and foremost a leader.  If you can't muster up a positive attitude in yourself towards your own training, how are you ever going to enthuse your future subordinates towards their training/jobs?


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## Sheerin (16 Aug 2006)

Out of curiosity, do reserve MARS candidates have to sit before the NOAB?


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## Leo791989 (17 Aug 2006)

Awright guys. Application is in now. I have applied for ROTP MARS Officer. And amazingly the recruiter didn't know anything about ROTP doing NOAB. 
Thanks for all the help.


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## Missile Man (17 Aug 2006)

Just to further the process of soiling yourself, the advice on how "tough" Venture is is only the start my young chickadee.  The real work begins when you join the fleet.  Sadly, yes, you have endured MARS 3 and 4 and "made it through" to "being a MARS Officer", but you are inherently useless once you join your first Ship.  Until, of course you get OOD qual (3 months max) and get your BWK (should be 1 year AT SEA, though, more like a month or two on the West Coast...).  Then 12 month consolidation on your ticket, followed by your NOPQ (Lt(N) board) where we really separate the wheat from the chaff (IR or seduction, I can't remember).  The you are "qualified", however until you get a profile (d-level) you are not yet useful to the Navy.  Go for 6 month d-level, followed by 18month-24 month tour.  Now you are actually a MARS Officer.  Now if you want to get promoted and hang with the grown-ups, do a seconf sea tour (DeckO is a good one, though I am biased) get a good PER and get selected for your ORO course (1 year) followed by another 2 years at sea as WpnsO/CbtO.  As long as you don't run over the Admiral's dog, then back over his family, you should get made 2.5 out of your ORO tour.  Then the long wait for selection to staff college followed by XO/Command (line starts here (as I point behind my back)).

Good luck.


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## FredDaHead (17 Aug 2006)

Missile Man, you said they "separate the wheat from the chaff" at the NOPQ, but does anyone get released at that point? I'd assume after paying for all that training, the Navy wouldn't just say "well, you went through all that training and all, but we'll have to let you go, now."


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## MissHardie (17 Aug 2006)

Sheerin,

As far as I know Reserve MARS don't do the NOAB thing - but we do sit 'boards' at our particular units as part of the recruiting process, or so was my experience. In my BOTC (2004) most did, and some didn't even do that much.


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## Sheerin (17 Aug 2006)

Thanks MissHardie, always meant to ask you that...


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## SeaDog (18 Aug 2006)

Frederik G,
Most guys who make it as far as the NOPQ board (ie ticket, consolidation time) will eventually pass.  Eventually being the key word.  When I did mine only 50% of the guys challenging the board passed.  I can distinctly remember at least one guy failing the board who had already dipped it a least once, possibly twice before.  He's no longer in (not sure if it was voluntary or not).  I know a few more guys who, after a few attempts remustered.  So I guess the answer is yes - the navy is willing to cull the herd despite financial commitment to previous training.  That being said, it is rather rare.  In my personal experience, most of the guys that pull the pin do so prior to the CofCII (NOPQ) stage.


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## Missile Man (18 Aug 2006)

SeaDog spins some truth, some fiction in his post cats.  One thing you youngsters need to reel in nice and early is that there is no common sense in the MARS profession.  No, they will not look at how much they have dumped into you for trg and say "hey, we should keep this cat around, he cost us tons!".  One of my buds out here just pulled himself off of the ORO Course, so ostensibly the Navy has dumped just over 1.5 million to get him there, then another 1.2 million for the ORO Course.  Guess what?  They almost punted him, but he barterred for a recruiting job inland.  *If nothing else, this job is never a sure bet, even after you are post d-level.  However, as we are currently over 175 MARS Officers (post d-level) short in the fleet today, chances are they will keep you around.  However, at the NOPQ stage, and up until you pass your d-level, you are expendable.  Remember, you are not useable to the career mangler in Ottawa until you are done your d-level tour, then you are eligible for purple jobs (recruiting, basic trg, JHQ etc).
So Fred, don't buy a house until you are done your d-level course.  Until then you are the peanut shells beneath the boots of Ottawa.
SeaDog, yes, most cats get several cracks at their NOPQ (C of C II for us oldies) board.  However, if you can't pass that board after 2 or three cracks, they need to seriously consider another career path, I just sat a TRB for an unsuccessful NOPQ candidate and we booted him into TDO.  We usually send the dead weight to either Int or TDO, somewhere far from the coast, Ships, and the ability to put people in body bags.


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## SeaDog (19 Aug 2006)

Missile Man,
Not my intention to lead astray - I was speaking purely anecdotally based on my personal experience of what occurred to the guys that dipped the C of C II board when I did mine.  Not trying to say that this is the law of the land - just that a lot of guys take a few cracks at it and get through.  And some take a few cracks and don't.  As you said, those who can't make it through after a few attempts need to explore new career options (like I outlined in my post around three released and/or remustered after dipping the board I challenged).  Didn't mean to make it sound like if you keep smashing through you'll eventually make it - just wanted to assure those prospectives that failing the C of C II once doesn't mean the end of the world..yet.  As for the lack of common sense in the MARS world - you made me smile, Missile Man.  Genuinely smile.
Cheers.


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## Leo791989 (24 Aug 2006)

Thanks again fellows for all the input.
Quick question to the recruiters and those that have just gone through the process of MARS acceptance. I have submitted all the forms etc. Now apart from physical,medical and an interview..is there anything else remaining before an offer is made?
Not sure if I have to do an aptitude test..i did one in february 06.
Thanks


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## Catburglar (24 Aug 2006)

Physical, medical, interview....all done at you're recruiting center....Now what's left is to be pick by a selection board who scan files submitted by recruiting centers, i don't know if they sort out candidate there. Those who are selected at the first board got an invite (invite or obligation ?) to go to the next NOAB (Naval Officer Assesement Board). For exemple, i was being selected from a board in Febuary, been called the 27 that i was taking plane the 3rd March for the NOAB in Victoria.

Now at the NOAB, you'll be on evalution mode for the week, part from the Officer and the P.O. who's with your group, part from the assement test and interview.  For the statistics, we was 21 persons at the NOAB, 15 MARS officers and 6 G-MARS.  From that, 3 persons have been "slacked" from the bunch, all of them was there for MARS officer.

Catburglar

Edit: being "slacked" mean that the navy will not cut you an offer as MARS officer for these persons, but these persons can be offered their second or third choice from their application, being denied at the NOAB board doesn't mean you're not good enough for the army. That's just mean that the navy think that you're not maybe "made" to be a MARS officer (life on board, interrest ont he navy,...,...)

PS : Sorry for my poor english grammar. I guess that's why they send us to SLT


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## Leo791989 (25 Aug 2006)

Thank You.
So, basically what you're saying is that there is a good chance of getting an invite to goto NOAB. And since Iam starting my university this fall. I am not sure if they'd want you to take a week off for NOAB's. Those who have gone to universities can concurr with me on this...especially late feb..early march(mid terms etc).
So in regards to NOAB. Any advice on it?
Thanks


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## Torlyn (25 Aug 2006)

In regards to NOAB?  I highly doubt any university or university professor would have a problem altering exams / paper due dates for something like this.  Ask, and if they say no, talk to your dean.

T


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## andpro (28 Aug 2006)

Leo791989 said:
			
		

> Not sure if I have to do an aptitude test..i did one in february 06.
> Thanks


 I don't know how long the aptitude test is good for, but I think your one in February would probably still be good unless you didn't score high enough to go officer, in that case you would have to re-do it.


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## Sheerin (28 Aug 2006)

> Thank You.
> So, basically what you're saying is that there is a good chance of getting an invite to goto NOAB. And since Iam starting my university this fall. I am not sure if they'd want you to take a week off for NOAB's. Those who have gone to universities can concurr with me on this...especially late feb..early march(mid terms etc).
> So in regards to NOAB. Any advice on it?
> Thanks



You going into first year?  Then I wouldn't worry too much about writing exams during Feb or March (most first year courses tend to only do exams at the end of each semester).  And even if they do you'll have the dates for them well in advance (they'll be listed in the syllabus at the start of the year).  ANd if there is a conflict go to the prof well in advance and explain, unless they're a total prick they'll probably let you write before or after the NOAB.


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## Gus (1 Sep 2006)

Missile Man said:
			
		

> SeaDog spins some truth, some fiction in his post cats.  One thing you youngsters need to reel in nice and early is that there is no common sense in the MARS profession.  No, they will not look at how much they have dumped into you for trg and say "hey, we should keep this cat around, he cost us tons!".  One of my buds out here just pulled himself off of the ORO Course, so ostensibly the Navy has dumped just over 1.5 million to get him there, then another 1.2 million for the ORO Course.  Guess what?  They almost punted him, but he barterred for a recruiting job inland.  *If nothing else, this job is never a sure bet, even after you are post d-level.  However, as we are currently over 175 MARS Officers (post d-level) short in the fleet today, chances are they will keep you around.  However, at the NOPQ stage, and up until you pass your d-level, you are expendable.  Remember, you are not useable to the career mangler in Ottawa until you are done your d-level tour, then you are eligible for purple jobs (recruiting, basic trg, JHQ etc).
> So Fred, don't buy a house until you are done your d-level course.  Until then you are the peanut shells beneath the boots of Ottawa.
> SeaDog, yes, most cats get several cracks at their NOPQ (C of C II for us oldies) board.  However, if you can't pass that board after 2 or three cracks, they need to seriously consider another career path, I just sat a TRB for an unsuccessful NOPQ candidate and we booted him into TDO.  We usually send the dead weight to either Int or TDO, somewhere far from the coast, Ships, and the ability to put people in body bags.



I disagree that all deadweight ends up in Int and TDO.  I see a great deal of it inside the MARS world; I've heard, first hand from very senior officers that "we'd rather have someone mediocre than no one at all"; in general it is usually the full-chested huffers-and-puffers that bring down the MARS world -- keep in mind, that when the collective "we" complain about the Navy's problems, it MARS officers who are running the Navy!!

Also, the 1.5 milllion dollar figure for training is a myth that's been around since I was in training.  It IS very expensive to train us, but nowhere near that number, if true cost-accounting is used -- breaking all the costs including individual salaries, salaries and expenses at training units, costs of sending ships to sea, etc.

Why doesn't the recruiting centre know as much as they should, well, frankly (and surprisingly) the recruiting command and the three elements are quite disjointed, and between the commands and the recruiting centres there are often serious miscommunications and conflicting goals.

I think that every MOS has an important role to play, that people should take pride in their role and do it as well as possible.


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## Reven (30 Sep 2006)

I just want to thank those who contributed to this.  I was just called today with an invitation to the NOAB next month.  Needless to say, I'm the whole gambit of nervous to excited.  As I'm 36 and entering on the CEOTP, I'm competing against younger, more educated DEO applicants.  So I appreciate the time you spent answering the original poster's questions.  Every bit of information helps me prepare - though I think perhaps the preparation has been more in the last 15 years than it will be in the next month.

I'm curious about the dinner they have at the boards.  The officer who performed my interview was a pilot, and when he spoke of the NOAB I got the impression that he saw it all as pomp and circumstance.  Is this actually a black-tie affair, or something a little more casual.  I'd like to know what to pack for this.


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## kincanucks (30 Sep 2006)

_I'm curious about the dinner they have at the boards.  The officer who performed my interview was a pilot, and when he spoke of the NOAB I got the impression that he saw it all as pomp and circumstance.  Is this actually a black-tie affair, or something a little more casual.  I'd like to know what to pack for this._

I went as an observer in 2003 and it was a casual dress affair but bring a jacket and tie and you will be fine.  There will be a package given to you before you go and it will tell what is going to happen, when it is going to happen, where it is going to happen, why it is going to happen and what o bring to make it happen.  Patience grasshopper.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (30 Sep 2006)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> _I'm curious about the dinner they have at the boards.  The officer who performed my interview was a pilot, and when he spoke of the NOAB I got the impression that he saw it all as pomp and circumstance.  Is this actually a black-tie affair, or something a little more casual.  I'd like to know what to pack for this._
> 
> I went as an observer in 2003 and it was a casual dress affair but bring a jacket and tie and you will be fine.  There will be a package given to you before you go and it will tell what is going to happen, when it is going to happen, where it is going to happen, why it is going to happen and what o bring to make it happen.  Patience grasshopper.



Good advice...jacket and tie will likely be the order of dress. I would say the Pilot is giving you bad advice. This is a Board where they are looking to see if you have the stuff to make it through 2 years of gruelling training and then a life at sea doing some lengthy deployments and sacrificing a lot in order to be a member of a proud family. I would take this seriously and not listen to the "pomp and circumstance" routine. It's not black tie but they will be looking to see if you know how to conduct yourself socially....officers are expected to go to high profile events in foriegn ports and at home that require couth and tact. If you show up in your tee shirt and runners you might be setting yourself up for failure.


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## navymich (30 Sep 2006)

However, do make sure you bring comfortable shoes and clothes for your day at sea.  I have been on the MCDVs for several NOAB day sails where the girls are in shoes with heels and the guys are in dress shoes.  Not easy on the feet all day at sea, and not safe either for grip or ladders and such.  Recommendation for your daysail is loafers or deck shoes, nice khakis and golf or dress shirt, with a windbreaker in hand.  Definitely not the place for suit and tie, or even a dress for that matter.  But above all else, follow any direction given to you in your package as mentioned earlier by Kincanucks.  The above are just my observations.


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## Gus (12 Oct 2006)

The NOAB will be doing an alongside tour aboard HMCS YELLOWKNIFE, and Navymich's observations are excellent advice, at sea and alongside.


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## navymich (12 Oct 2006)

Only alongside this year?  That's too bad.  I'm sure the tour and information passed on will be informative and such, but I always found that the real experience was actually heading out to sea.  Even with just a daysail, there is so much more that happens, between seeing personnel standing watches, and being in their actual job, showing off the capabilities of the ship, seeing the different organizations that close up for evolutions and emergencies, and so on.  Besides, then you can see who has the sea legs and the stomach for sailing.


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## Cronicbny (12 Oct 2006)

Gus said:
			
		

> The NOAB will be doing an alongside tour aboard HMCS YELLOWKNIFE, and Navymich's observations are excellent advice, at sea and alongside.



Moooohahahahaha! See you Tuesday!   >


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## navymich (12 Oct 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> I'm sure the tour and information passed on will be informative and such...



Then again, maybe I should rescind this part!!  Just kidding, the crew, especially that Cronicbny guy, are knowledgeable people that will represent the Navy well.


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## Reven (13 Oct 2006)

If there is an alongside tour of Yellowknife, I'm sure it's in addition to a cruise - the itinerary I received indicates one at least.  Three hours set aside for it - a three hour tour. 

If any of you will be there next week, I hope to meet you.


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## Cronicbny (13 Oct 2006)

No sailing for the tour of YELLOWKNIFE, that much I can say for sure.


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## Reven (23 Oct 2006)

I just arrived home ysterday.  The board accepted me!  I suppose I'd better get a new avatar now. 

We ended up sailing on HMCS Winnipeg as at the time they thought Vancover's anchor had fouled (it ended up being a problem with the winch).  We did get that alongside tour of Yellowknife that was pretty fun too.  

All in all it was an incredible week.  That last fifty foot walk down the corridor to get my results from the board was, well, perhaps the longest walk of my life.

Thanks to everyone who posted advice.  If folks think it would be helpful, I could post a rundown of the week for people who might in the future attend.


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## Phrontis (23 Oct 2006)

Congratulations Reven, and welcome to the Navy.  By the bye, the correct way to say that is that you sailed _in_ WINNIPEG, not on WINNIPEG. (This is the kind of pedantic correction you'll now be in for; but as Jack Hawkins as the CO of the COMPASS ROSE in "The Cruel Sea" says, "It's a small point, but you may as well get it right".)


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## navymich (23 Oct 2006)

Congratulations Reven!

Yes, I think that you should post about your week, and the leadup to it.  I am sure that it will be very beneficial for future reference.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (23 Oct 2006)

Arrrr welcome to ye! NOw the hard work begins.  ;D Congrats on your acceptance.


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## andpro (23 Oct 2006)

Congrats, and welcome to the forces.


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## SirRobin (26 Oct 2006)

It's been mentioned that the MARS officer MOC  has one of the highest failure rates in the military. What are the main sources of failure and when do most occur? How can I best prepare myself?

Thanks to anyone generous enough to share info on this.


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## navymich (26 Oct 2006)

SirRobin said:
			
		

> It's been mentionned that the MARS officer MOC  has one of the highest failure rates in the military. What are the main sources of failure and when do most occur? How can I best prepare myself?
> 
> Thanks to anyone generous enough to share info on this.



I notice your profile is blank.  What step are you at in your military career?  Have you begun the application process?  Have you been accepted for MARS yet?

If you read through this thread, as well as doing a search on the boards for MARS, you will find a large source of information that should answer most, if not all, of the questions that you have.  If after reading through all of that you have more specific questions, please ask them here, and I am sure that they will be answered.


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## SirRobin (26 Oct 2006)

I had read the thread and some others. Did some more searching and and found more info about the NOAB which just seems like a good time. But I'm afraid 

I am currently in the Army reserve as an enlisted and have written a note to my commander to the effect that I want a transfer to the Navy reserve as a MARS Officer. I already have a BA and so I will be a DEO. 

Here are a few, hopefully more specific, questions. If the MARS O MOC has one of the highest failure rates, there must be reasons behind that, what are they? What challenges, tests, etc make it have one of the highest failure rates? I have difficult making my question specific because I am basically asking "what are the known unknowns*?". 



Also, what is NOPQ? A search turns up two results that don't explain the meaning of that term. Surely something along the lines of: "Naval Officer Something Qualification". What's the "something"?



* From my perspective, not from the perspective of those who might know the most common mistakes that result in failure.


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## SeaDog (27 Oct 2006)

NOPQ is Naval Officer Professional Qualification.  In short, once you reach your first ship you will have three main qualifications to complete.  Officer of the Day (OOD), Bridge Watch Keeping Certificate (BWK), and NOPQ (used to be C of C II).  Once you have OOD, BWK and all appropriate NOPQ signatures you will be nominated to sit a board.  Upon successfully challenging the board you are awarded NOPQ - which means you are now eligible for the rank of Lt(N) and able to proceed with D Level training...

As for the failure rate, it really depends.  There is a variety of skills all requiring different aptitudes.  It depends on an individuals strengths and weakness.  It is, as well, a steep learning curve.  I could tell you "on my MARS III most guys dipped (insert training objective here)" - but it would probably be anecdotal and of not much use.  If you do want further info on it, however, just PM me and I'll spin some dits.


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## Marsh (29 Oct 2006)

I did a search for this question and I only found a few general answers, but feel free to criticize my search skills if this has been asked before  

I'm considering about four different options right now, two of them are RegF MARS and Res MARS. I was wondering what kind of non-sea based jobs MARS officers have gotten when they leave. Previous discussions mention only that they've been hired in jobs requiring management and problem solving skills, but not any specifics (not a jab at anyone, but a manager at Tim Horton's technically fits that description). Is it difficult to find good work after leaving the navy?

Also, in regards to MARS NavRes, I was wondering if employers ever let the employees take 10 weeks off during the summer for training. Does anyone have any experience with this, or is the training usually taken while in between jobs?


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## navymich (29 Oct 2006)

Marsh said:
			
		

> Also, in regards to MARS NavRes, I was wondering if employers ever let the employees take 10 weeks off during the summer for training. Does anyone have any experience with this, or is the training usually taken while in between jobs?



Typically, a MARS trainee is a student.  This fits in well with the majority of MARS courses, as they are scheduled for the summer (May - Aug).  A student can then take 3-4 years to do their training, one summer at a time.

There is sometimes the chance/option that you can take your MARS training all at once.  You would need to let CFRC and your home unit know your preference and why, and they might be able to get you loaded on the RegF courses that run throughout the year.

As for time off from work, that is dependent on your employers.  There are many cases and many stories to match of reservists that have great employers and get time off with their pay topped off, right down to those that get fired if they even ask for a training night or weekend off.  The CF has an organization that is attempting, and often successful, in helping with this.  You can find more information on this if you search for "Canadian Forces Liaison Council (CFLC)".


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## cobbler (29 Oct 2006)

navymich said:
			
		

> As for time off from work, that is dependent on your employers.  There are many cases and many stories to match of reservists that have great employers and get time off with their pay topped off,* right down to those that get fired if they even ask for a training night or weekend off.*  The CF has an organization that is attempting, and often successful, in helping with this.  You can find more information on this if you search for "Canadian Forces Liaison Council (CFLC)".


 
Isn't that illegal?


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## kratz (29 Oct 2006)

There is no job protection under Canadian law. Here is a link to the CFLC  and the reasons for employers to voluntarily allow their staff to take time off work.


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## navymich (8 Nov 2006)

Okay MARS wannabee's, try this for some practice before you hit the simulator or the real thing: http://www.pacificshipwrecks.ca/english/game_flash.html


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## warspite (9 Nov 2006)

Mwhahahah I finally made it ;D


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## NavalGent (11 Nov 2006)

I made it as well... only took two tries. 
Now the reason for my post:
What are the different D-level courses available? And what does the "D" stand for?

Edit: Never mind, found my the answers in the other MARS Officer thread. The options are FNO/SAC/AAWD/ASWD, and the D stands for Director. :-[ my bad. I will search next time.


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## navydiver (1 Dec 2006)

Just speculating here as I have no connection with the recruiting world: Given the current situation with the MARS occupation being hugely underborne I would think that if someone had a pulse they would get through NOAB. Just don't go into your interview at the end of the week and tell them you have a sick, tortured mind - might put them off a bit. Back in my day it was called NOSB and heaven forbid I eeked my way through. Still technically a MARS-BAR after 20 years but of the Clearance Diving flavour now. Where does the time go? Answer: It goes by very quickly when you're having fun!
Strength in Depth!


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## Reven (6 Dec 2006)

I'm not sure this is the case.  In my NOAB this last October there were 27 applicatants and 21 of us made it.  The lieutenants that acted as guides expressed surprise at the number that were turned down.  From what I could tell, most of them seemed to themselves have been on NOABs where there were 40-50 applicants with 3-4 turned down.  This wasn't a scientific polling by any means, but you probably know how it goes on NOABs - we talked to anyone we could find about their experiences.  Even so, 6 out of 27 is hardly a statistically significant change, but it certainly doesn't indicate they are desperate.  Or maybe it just indicates the Navy is getting a lot of sick, tortured minds applying. 



			
				navydiver said:
			
		

> Still technically a MARS-BAR after 20 years but of the Clearance Diving flavour now. Where does the time go? Answer: It goes by very quickly when you're having fun!



I went for a fascinating tour at a clearance diving training school during my NOAB.  I'm not sure I have the gusto to go clearance, but it got me thinking about trying for the ship's diving team.


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## IN HOC SIGNO (6 Dec 2006)

Reven said:
			
		

> I'm not sure this is the case.  In my NOAB this last October there were 27 applicatants and 21 of us made it.  The lieutenants that acted as guides expressed surprise at the number that were turned down.  From what I could tell, most of them seemed to themselves have been on NOABs where there were 40-50 applicants with 3-4 turned down.  This wasn't a scientific polling by any means, but you probably know how it goes on NOABs - we talked to anyone we could find about their experiences.  Even so, 6 out of 27 is hardly a statistically significant change, but it certainly doesn't indicate they are desperate.  Or maybe it just indicates the Navy is getting a lot of sick, tortured minds applying.
> 
> I went for a fascinating tour at a clearance diving training school during my NOAB.  I'm not sure I have the gusto to go clearance, but it got me thinking about trying for the ship's diving team.



MARS Training is extremely expensive and consumes a lot of time and resources. They obviously found out things about those 6 that led them to believe that they were not suitable for training and would not be successful if accepted...good on them. It doesn't matter how desperate we get we cannot compromise on some basic things. When I was a junior MARS Bar and finally got my own watch, I remember the feeling of responsibility I had for the 225 people sleeping below on my first Mid-watch on my own. A multi-million dollar piece of equipment with 225 souls is a heavy responsibility for a young person to shoulder...better we weed them out early if they can't cut the mustard...IMHO


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