# US official says"Saudis Arabia poised to make shift AWAY from relations with US"



## CougarKing (22 Oct 2013)

I never trusted the Saudis in the first place...

Some Saudi officials obviously want to benefit from selling oil to western countries, but there are others who hate the open, secular culture of western nations such as the US and Canada, and only want to spread Wahhabism/fundamentalist Islam.

They may have crafty diplomats such as Prince Bandar, a former Royal Saudi Air Force pilot, but their interests are distinctly different.

Defense News



> *House Intel Chairman Sees 'Negative Consequences' if Saudis Shift Away from US*
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON — The chairman of the US House Intelligence Committee on Tuesday warned that Saudi Arabia’s shift away from a longstanding relationship with the United States could severely hurt US interests.
> ...


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## pbi (23 Oct 2013)

Well...good riddance. This was a pact with the devil anyway. The Saudis are just about the most reactionary and fundamentalist of all the Arab League nations, and IMHO were playing a double game long before it became common to accuse Pakistan of the same offense. The US freeing itself from having to please this lot can only be good news. Maybe it will speed achievement of the US strategic objective of de-linking itself from Middle East oil altogether.

And (long shot...) the US will be able to wean itself off its perennial habituation with nasty regimes in general.


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## jollyjacktar (23 Oct 2013)

Agreed.  I don't trust them.  Many of our terrorists have originated in SA.  I believe they're false friends and would enjoy to see the West's downfall, in all honesty.


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## Halifax Tar (23 Oct 2013)

What kind of impact will this have on the scores of westerners who work and live in SA ?


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## pbi (24 Oct 2013)

Halifax Tar said:
			
		

> What kind of impact will this have on the scores of westerners who work and live in SA ?



This is a good question. I don't know for sure, but based on what I saw in Dubai, the Saudis will not be able to indulge in any mass expulsion of Westerners. My guess is that like some other nations in that region, much of the technical and managerial expertise comes from Western nationals, while most of the dirty work is done by South Asians. The native population could expand to fill the gaps, but I doubt it could happen overnight.

What will probably happen is that foreigners will be subjected to an even heavier enforcement of Islamic religious laws than they are now, since whatever moderating influence the US may exert would be reduced or removed.

I think you might also see the expat Westerners replaced by East-bloc types and Chinese over time.


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## Edward Campbell (24 Oct 2013)

I agree with pbi. When I was in the Kingdom, many years ago I hasten to add, I was dismayed at the near total dependence of the Saudis on foreigners: Americans, Brits, Canadians (lots of 'em) Filipinos, Pakistanis, Palestinians, and so on. Foreigners totally provided many essential technical services, including, for example, maintenance of the Saudi Air Force. Saudis were/are well, but often too narowly educated. I met many, many MBAs but too few (often no) mathematicians, engineers, doctors, electronic technicians and plumbers. I was told, by a Brit _expat_ with many, many years in Saudi Arabia, that many Saudis think some kinds of work are _beneath_ them ~ and that included repairing aircraft engines or working in a seaport.


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## George Wallace (24 Oct 2013)

pbi said:
			
		

> I think you might also see the expat Westerners replaced by East-bloc types and Chinese over time.



I would even question that.  Don't overlook the fact that East-Bloc types and the Chinese are also engaged in fighting with fanatical Islamist factions.


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## CougarKing (24 Oct 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I would even question that.  Don't overlook the fact that East-Bloc types and the Chinese are also engaged in fighting with fanatical Islamist factions.



Well as ERC currently pointed out, Saudi Arabia currently employs thousands of Filipinos among the foreign expats there. This is in spite of the fact that the Philippines, a predominantly Catholic country, is engaged in on-again, off-again, counter-insurgency operations against Islamic separatist groups in their southernmost islands such as the MILF or BIFF. 

My point is that the Saudis may see greater value in maintaining relations with certain countries in spite of their governments cracking down on Islamic separatist groups that Riyadh may or may not find common cause with. 

Furthermore, China needs Saudi oil to fuel its growing energy needs and China also has many workers intent on going overseas. Note the number of Chinese resource extraction/energy companies in Africa, in the mining sector for example, which have imported their own legions of Chinese workers instead of hiring locals in the host country.


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## George Wallace (24 Oct 2013)

S.M.A. said:
			
		

> Well as ERC currently pointed out, Saudi Arabia currently employs  thousands of Filipinos among the foreign expats there. This is in spite of the fact that the Philippines, a predominantly Catholic country, is engaged in on-again, off-again, counter-insurgency operations against Islamic separatist groups in their southernmost islands such as the MILF or BIFF.



What they do currently is not the question.


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## Edward Campbell (24 Oct 2013)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> What they do currently is not the question.




The fact is that the Saudis need those foreign workers: dentists and deckhands; mechanics and mathematicians; and they don't (can't)* produce them domestically. They will pay the going rates to hire the skilled (and unskilled) labour they need; many Filipinos hate working in the Gulf but the wages are high and they need the jobs to support their families. The law of supply and demand is pretty much immutable, George, a lot like the laws of physics.

_____
* Saudi Arabia has many, many colleges and universities but, I think they suffer from indifferent standards and low interest in many subjects by Saudis, themselves ~ back to that idea that some occupations are _beneath_ them.


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## pbi (24 Oct 2013)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> ~ back to that idea that some occupations are _beneath_ them.



I think, based on what I have seen, and from speaking with others who have spent time in various Gulf states, that this is a serious problem and probably a vulnerability. IMHO it is aggravated by an entitlement society (for native born Arabs) funded by oil revenues. Dubai, IIRC, was a particularly extreme example of this. My impression is that this is not true in all Arab nations: it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue in North African states like Morocco and Algeria, etc, or in Lebanon or Egypt, but then we are speaking about quite a different kind of Arab culture.


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## MP 811 (28 Oct 2013)

Interesting topic, which interests me greatly considering I'm currently working in Saudi Arabia.  Great posts by everyone as well!  Personally, and I see it every day, the Saudi's are trying to "Saudize" everything here.  They decided that the jobless rate, especially amongst the Saudi youth is unacceptable and are now forcing expats, primarily, Indian, Pakistani, Filipinos out of jobs in order to get their own working.  The problem is, most (not all) are notoriously lazy and don't want to work that job the expat was working...why?...as someone alluded to earlier, the job is beneath them.

There's no doubt in my mind there are interesting times ahead here.  The MOI (Ministry of the Interior) has set a deadline of Nov 4th for most these expats to have proper documentation or else, face deportation.  Should be interesting to see what happens when there aren't enough warm bodies to do all the jobs the Saudi's wont.  There definitely isn't a shortage of people from the countries I listed earlier coming here though.  I came back on Saturday night to Riyadh and the customs area had at least 400 Pakistani folks, all with initial entry paperwork, trying to gain access.


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## a_majoor (18 Dec 2013)

From Instapundit. Full article is behind a WSJ paywall:



> “SMART DIPLOMACY” UPDATE: Saudi Royal Blasts U.S. Policy. “A leading Saudi prince demanded a place for his country at talks with Iran, assailing the Obama administration for working behind Riyadh’s back and panning other recent U.S. steps in the Middle East.”


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## tomahawk6 (18 Dec 2013)

Foreign workers from other islamic countries are a security threat to the monarchy.Ex-pats are safe.


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## CougarKing (18 Dec 2013)

Not sure how credible this is, but if true, it only gives us further cause not to trust Riyadh:



> *Two Congressmen claim secret report on 9/11 pins the blame on Saudi Arabia*
> posted at 8:23 am on December 16, 2013 by Ed Morrissey
> 
> What we _know_ from the New York Post’s report on the claim from Democratic Rep. Stephen Lynch and Republican Rep. Walter Jones is that two administrations have kept 28 pages of a 2002 report on the 9/11 so highly classified that they don’t contain redactions — just an ellipsis noting their absence. Lynch and Jones claim that the report from Congress after the attacks that left 3,000 Americans dead contain material that “absolutely shocked” them — and pins the blame on Saudi Arabia for state support of the attack:
> ...



Sources:
hotair.com/archives/2013/12/16/two-congressmen-claim-secret-report-on-911-pins-the-blame-on-saudi-arabia/

nypost.com/2013/12/15/inside-the-saudi-911-coverup/


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## a_majoor (19 Dec 2013)

Over all, the Americans and Saudis have had more interests in common than diverging in the past, hence the utility of maintaining some sort of relationship. 

Now, this Administration has essentially dumped the delicate arrangements (not just in Saudi Arabia), and the Saudis are working hard to assert their own interests in the region.

Perhaps in the long run, this is for the best (and perhaps this was an inevitable outcome anyway), but what is annoying is the creators of so called "smart diplomacy" do not seemed to be prepared for this, or have any sort of road map for where to go next, having alienated all their former allies in the region and now standing around with their thumbs up their wazoos while the region is engulfed in conflict.

The incoming administration in 2016 will have a huge mess to deal with.


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