# Year of the Veteran & commemorative pin to be worn by all CF pers



## MPIKE (15 Mar 2005)

News Release
Canadian Forces Members to Observe Year of the Veteran

NR-05.017 - March 4, 2005

OTTAWA â â€œ Canadian Forces members will wear a special insignia pin on their uniforms throughout 2005 to recognize Canada's â Å“Year of the Veteran.â ? Veterans Affairs Canada has produced the pin to promote an understanding of the significance and sacrifice of all Canadian veterans. The pin is a stylized maple leaf overlaid with a red-enameled poppy engraved with the year 2005.

The Chief of the Defence Staff, General Rick Hillier, has authorized CF members to wear the pin on their uniforms â Å“...to mark this extremely important and solemn observance.â ? â Å“The service men and women of today become the veterans of tomorrow,â ? said General Hillier. â Å“Wearing this insignia during this special year is both a demonstration of support and thanks for those who have gone before, and those who will come after.â ?

The Minister of National Defence, Bill Graham, and Veterans Affairs Minister Albina Guarnieri have expressed their strong support for this worthy initiative.

The pin will be proudly worn henceforth until the end of the year by all members of the CF. The pins will be issued as soon as possible via the office of the Canadian Forces Chief Warrant Officer.

In 2001, the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada refined the definition of a veteran to recognize all former CF members, Regular and Reserve, who have met both DND's Military Occupational Classification (MOC) requirements and have been honourably discharged. Many members of the CF have previous service and are therefore currently considered Veterans.


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## QORvanweert (15 Mar 2005)

I believe that though the veterans should be remembered, the daily use of this pin is a waste of time and money. Veterans are already appreciated by the members of the CF and these pins are slightly redundant. anywho, my two cents...


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## Michael Dorosh (15 Mar 2005)

I thought wearing our cap badges was a visible sign of rememberance for "those who have gone before and those who will come after."

I don't get it.


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## Big Foot (15 Mar 2005)

Well, heres what it looks like for those of you who care. I kinda like it.


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## Kat Stevens (15 Mar 2005)

QORvanweert said:
			
		

> I believe that though the veterans should be remembered, the daily use of this pin is a waste of time and money. Veterans are already appreciated by the members of the CF and these pins are slightly redundant. anywho, my two cents...


Then why wear a poppy on Remembrance Day?

CHIMO,  Kat


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## the 48th regulator (15 Mar 2005)

I dig it,

I think it is a great idea.  One year of doing this is worthy of it.

tess


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## Michael Dorosh (15 Mar 2005)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> I dig it,
> 
> I think it is a great idea.  One year of doing this is worthy of it.
> 
> tess



Being made to wear this rinky dink dime store toy implies that we have somehow forgotten our veterans for the last 100 years or so and are only now "remembering" them.  I don't about the rest of you, but I haven't forgotten anybody.


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## TCBF (15 Mar 2005)

They want us to believe that Canadian history actually began in 1965 when we ran up the maple flag.  No Hill 70, no Hochwald Gap, just a big googly nanny state whose unifying experience is rapidly becoming ESL class.  In a few years, the Tamil Tigers will have more vets drawing benefits in Canada than the Canadian Army does.

Tom


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## the 48th regulator (15 Mar 2005)

Lead by example,

Its the year of the veteran and one more way to promot them. Civvies see it and will will wonder.

Especially in this country that we are so willing to criticise about who forgot, as opposed to who remembered.

Sorry if it is so rinky dink, but I don't think it is your remembering that this will help to encourage, its for the ones that don't.

Go and point out to someone what it means, not what it looks like to you.

tess


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Mar 2005)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Go and point out to someone what it means, not what it looks like to you.
> 
> tess



I wear brass oak leaf shoulder titles - one of only two Canadian regiments in history to be awarded such an honour - to commemorate the counter-attack on Kitcheners' Wood on 22 April 1915 - the first Canadian attack of the war, and an action part of the overall Second Battle of Ypres which saw Canada make a giant contribution on the world stage.

If some civvie has never bothered to ask what the oak leaves mean, why would he be bothered to ask about a crappy lapel pin worn over my pocket?  I'm not even sure I can explain this one to myself, much less explain to a civilian why I am cluttering up my uniform with items of civilian dress.

Maybe we can get ball caps next that say I LOVE VETERANS on them.  It would be a lot more obvious, and would also shade our eyes from the harsh glare of the earth's sun.


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## the 48th regulator (16 Mar 2005)

And  I am sure you have pointed that out to someone other than me.

Maybe we should just scrap the whole idea of commemorating the year of the veteran and go back to pissing and moaning on how the Canadian public don't know about us vets.

tess


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Mar 2005)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> And  I am sure you have pointed that out to someone other than me.
> 
> Maybe we should just scrap the whole idea of commemorating the year of the veteran and go back to pissing and moaning on how the Canadian public don't know about us vets.
> 
> tess



You honestly think this pin will do anything to make anyone remember?  The act of seeing someone in uniform should be enough of a jog to their memory I should think!  

How about buttons that say "remember me?"  Or for that matter, "Punch Me" signs for our backs?  

I think people are either predisposed to remember or not, and if they're that uncaring or forgetful, some piece of gold coloured plastic on a guy's uniform isn't going to do anything.  

I don't mean to be argumentative, but this strikes me as wrong on so many levels.

a) it implies we have forgotten about the vets (not just we in the military, but the country.  I was led to believe Rememberance Day attendance has been up in recent years.)

b) it signifies that military uniforms can be accessorized with civilian items at the whim of the CDS - and while I don't consider myself jaded, I have to believe this is a cheap political move of some kind.

c) it suggests that treating veterans like shit is ok, as long as we wear dime store trinkets to make everything all better.  Did you get enough support when you returned from your tour, Tess?  And will the fact that I'm wearing this button in Calgary redress that?  Do you think the families of the Merchant Mariners who died without their hard-earned pensions will really be moved by this gesture?

d) it also implies that once we remember the vets for a year, we can go back to forgetting about them.  No, let's put HISTORY back on the curriculum in schools, then maybe people will know what the hell it is they're supposed to be remembering.  

Given a choice between us wearing some trinket, and having school kids learn what VIMY, HILL 70, PASSCHENDAELE, YPRES, SICILY, HITLER LINE, KAPYONG, ORTONA, SCHELDT, RHINELAND or MEDAK POCKET means....

What would you choose as a lasting legacy to our veterans?


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## eliminator (16 Mar 2005)

I think it's a good idea to have commemorative pins. Whether it be an airforce 75th anniversary pin, an RMC 125th one, or a Year of the Veteran pin, these are worth wearing. I just spent two weeks in France touring battlefields and paying my respects at the numerous cemeteries and monuments. Every time I put this pin on my uniform, I'll think of all those gone before me. My dad is a legion member, and says they, (legion members) are very happy over the military's decision to wear the pin. World War 2 and Korea vets are starting to pass away at an alarming rate. Let's commemorate this event with the veterans and show our respect and gratitude for their sacrifices.


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## PeterLT (16 Mar 2005)

Outstanding! The pin idea and any other idea that promotes awareness of veterans and the CF is money and time well spent. Canadians are historically apathetic at best of the contributions of our service folks and any effort, however small, is worth it. Uniform adornments have significance to those who wear them. To the average "flat faced civy" they mean nothing. And being upset at them is useless because they can't be expected to know. Almost every level of Canadian society from the government to the local vicar only grudgingly acknowledges that we even have a military. Heck, history is being rewritten every day to make us a kinder, gentler society! And unfortunately, any acknowledgement from Canadians usually requires dead servicemen to accomplish. So bravo, wear those pins with pride and make sure your chest is out when at the bank or gas station. Take any opportunity to tell a civilian about the service and why it's important for them to give their support. When I was still in the Army, I couldn't even spell vetrin; now I are one! I wear my ballcap that says "Canadian Forces Veteran" and I get comments about it almost every week. My replies always start with, "Well let me tell you something...."

We need to tell Canadians every day and every way possible that Canada too has veterans. Why? Because Canadians need to know that they have failed us for many years and even though they have, we did our best for them. Now let's do better for tomorrow's Veterans.

Peter


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Mar 2005)

PeterLT said:
			
		

> Outstanding! The pin idea and any other idea that promotes awareness of veterans and the CF is money and time well spent. Canadians are historically apathetic at best of the contributions of our service folks and any effort, however small, is worth it. Uniform adornments have significance to those who wear them. To the average "flat faced civy" they mean nothing.



This pin is also a _uniform adornment _  Is it not? So what is the difference?



> So bravo, wear those pins with pride and make sure your chest is out when at the bank or gas station.



I do that every time I'm in public, I don't need to do that with a pin on my jacket.



> Take any opportunity to tell a civilian about the service and why it's important for them to give their support.



Why do you need a pin to help you do that?   Or are you suggesting we walk up to civilians at random and start lecturing on history? 



> When I was still in the Army, I couldn't even spell vetrin; now I are one! I wear my ballcap that says "Canadian Forces Veteran" and I get comments about it almost every week. My replies always start with, "Well let me tell you something...."



I bet you wouldn't get that with a gold pin on your lapel.     You honestly don't think that the fact a guy is in UNIFORM would get a civilian talking to you, if they were at all interested?

Or that a veteran's pin, or a uniform, makes someone an automatic expert on veterans, a history professor, or a teacher?   



> We need to tell Canadians every day and every way possible that Canada too has veterans. Why? Because Canadians need to know that they have failed us for many years and even though they have, we did our best for them. Now let's do better for tomorrow's Veterans.



If you think these pins will get Ontario to vote Conservative in the next election, I think I'd have to question your logic.   And even if they did, would the Conservatives really stop all the health care spending, money for infrastructure and social programs and hand it all over lock, stock and barrel to the Forces?     

Would we really want them to?

Name one damn thing this stupid hunk of slag on our uniform will realistically change, except suck more money from the taxpayers.   

Consider this:

How many of you can name the colours of all the "we care" ribbons worn by civilians?   Pink for breast cancer, yellow for remembering the troops, etc. etc.     Remember when Rush Limbaugh wore like a dozen different colours to show how much he cared?

Same thing.   How many of you have stopped and asked someone why they are wearing a coloured ribbon on their lapel?   Tell the truth.   And then how many of you went and changed the way you vote because of what the person told you?


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## enfield (16 Mar 2005)

Since the average Canadian never sees a person in uniform, I don't know how they'd see the pin... 
I gotta admit, a pin seems sort of silly - don't we already have lots of items of rememberance on our uniforms that carry historical signifigance? Cap badges, distinguishing marks or badges, colours with battle honours. I see vets from my Regt's Assoc every few weeks, my Regiments battle honours are on the wall of the Armoury, I wear the same cap badge and tartan as thousands before me, and the original wooden cross listing the Regiment's dead at Vimy is clearly displayed in the Armoury. What meaning does a pin have?


We have "RMC 125"  and "Air Force 75 Anniversary" pins?


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## Infanteer (16 Mar 2005)

A pin on a camouflage uniform?

Well, I think there is a better way to get people to think about veterans.  Give civvies pins that commemorate sacrifice - oh wait a minute, we all ready do that with the poppy, which is by far a more recognized symbol.

Although the intention is noble, the execution is silly.  This little knick-knack is going to be the last think people notice.  It is going to be a pain in the ass that is resented by everybody who has to find the stupid thing and make sure it is on their uniform, lest the RSM give him a jacking.

There will be little return on the investment here.  Why not take the money that we gave the "Loonie Store" to make these things and instead make sure that Canadian highschool kids get a real thourough and interactive education about Canada's past sacrifices instead of teaching them how we are the big bad boogy man for hanging Louis Riel....


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## eliminator (16 Mar 2005)

> We have "RMC 125"  and "Air Force 75 Anniversary" pins?



RCAF 75th was in 99, everyone in the airforce regs, reserves, and cadets wore it for the whole year.

RMC 125th was in 2001, every one posted at RMC kingston and prep-year st jean wore it for the year


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## PeterLT (16 Mar 2005)

Well Mr. Dorosh, got up on the wrong side of the bed? Not enough Post Toasties this morning? I'm sorry if I somehow offended you with my submission. If I'd known it would bring such a hostile response and  be so unwelcome maybe I wouldn't have posted it. I'm certainly sorry that you are so bitter about your service and what it means to Canadians, IMHO you should be more proud. But enough said, I'll be sure to keep my views to myself in the future.

But I will continue to be proud of *my* service, that of all serving members and yes, even your contribution to Canada. And no amount of badgering and abuse can stop me from making that pride public whenever I can. 

Cheers & Cheerio,

Peter


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## Michael Dorosh (16 Mar 2005)

PeterLT said:
			
		

> Well Mr. Dorosh, got up on the wrong side of the bed? Not enough Post Toasties this morning? I'm sorry if I somehow offended you with my submission.



Who said I was offended?  I said this was stupid idea and I told you why I feel that way.



> If I'd known it would bring such a hostile response and   be so unwelcome maybe I wouldn't have posted it. I'm certainly sorry that you are so bitter about your service and what it means to Canadians,



I've got 18 years in and going strong.  Where does it say I'm not proud of my service?  I don't need a cracker jack prize in order to display it, and I thought the issue was pride in our veterans, not in ourselves.  So what exactly are you talking about here, as I am not following your arguments.



> IMHO you should be more proud.



Name one thing I've said that suggests I'm not proud.  In fact, if you read the comments, you'll see I said the opposite.



> But enough said, I'll be sure to keep my views to myself in the future.



Kind of defeats the purpose of a public messageboard, doesn't it?



> But I will continue to be proud of *my* service, that of all serving members and yes, even your contribution to Canada. And no amount of badgering and abuse can stop me from making that pride public whenever I can.



And when the pin comes down on 31 December, will you still do all of this?  If the answer is yes, then the pin wasn't necessary in the first place.  Besides which, again, the pin is supposed to be some sort of salve for our "neglected veterans."

I run the largest internet site in the entire world devoted to the Canadian Army in the 20th Century, and pay for it at my own expense, to the tune of several hundred dollars a year.  If that doesn't mean pride, I don't know what does.  I do not get compensation from anyone for my efforts, though I do get the thanks of dozens of veterans and their families every month, via email.

I think maybe your comments are a little off the mark, frankly.


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## Gunner (16 Mar 2005)

> Although the intention is noble, the execution is silly.



I agree with Infanteer and Michael Doresh.  While well intentioned by the CDS, I don't need a pin to commemorate those who came before me or those I serve with.  When I first heard about this initiative my mind wandered back to the quote from Blazing Saddles... "Badges, we don't need no stinkin badges!...".

My 2 cents


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## Teddy Ruxpin (16 Mar 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> "Badges, we don't need no stinkin badges!...".



Agree 100%.  I think this is downright silly, particularly as it appears that the pin is to be worn on combats (I had thought it was DEU only).  :  What's it prove?

TR


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## PeterLT (16 Mar 2005)

Thank you Mr. Dorosh for setting me straight. I now realize that any attempt to inject any personal opinion in a public forum is an invitation to being ridiculed, I will temper any comments in the future. I also see that it is useless to feel any pride at all in ones service because there will always be someone to belittle it. I commend you for your site, it is truly a nice piece of work. In fact, I use it in my medals and militaria business regularly for research, thank you. 

At this point, whether the pins are a good or bad idea is irrelevant. The abusive attacks on a contributor is entirely unacceptable and a person such as yourself (with 18 years service) should have the grace and common dog to discuss intelligently any topic that arises without resorting to abusive attacks. I thought it was a good idea, obviously you don't. Enough said.

If you'd like to discuss this further please don't hesitate to contact me privately. That way, I can be free to ignore you.

Cheerio,

Peter


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## Infanteer (16 Mar 2005)

Guys, lets not get wrapped around the axles here - I've been seeing to much of this "Don't say that!" hum-drum on multiple threads lately....


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## Horse_Soldier (16 Mar 2005)

Just to keep the information 100% on track - it will not be worn on combats.  DEU only.  That information came from higher headquarters and was passed on by our RSM last night.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (16 Mar 2005)

That would make more sense...  The photo posted earlier suggests otherwise - hope your RSM is right!

TR


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## Infanteer (16 Mar 2005)

Horse_Soldier said:
			
		

> Just to keep the information 100% on track - it will not be worn on combats.   DEU only.   That information came from higher headquarters and was passed on by our RSM last night.



I guess we are victims of the silly picture on the first page - hopefully you're right.  Maybe they read this page and changed things around....


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## KOMODO (16 Mar 2005)

Whats all the fuss about. Its a great gesture and long over due. It should be worn everYday in my mind not just on Rememberance day. I keep a poppy in plain view in my truck all year round. Its my way of showing respect. Now I see plates are out with the poppy on them. I can not believe Cf Members in here are bitching and arguing about this. Shame on you.Maybe some of you should question your honour to your
counrty and fallen and injured veterans pass and present.

NUFF SAID  

SNIPER (4 C K)


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## Gunner (16 Mar 2005)

> Whats all the fuss about. Its a great gesture and long over due. It should be worn everYday in my mind not just on Rememberance day. I keep a poppy in plain view in my truck all year round. Its my way of showing respect. Now I see plates are out with the poppy on them. I can not believe Cf Members in here are bitching and arguing about this. Shame on you.Maybe some of you should question your honour to your counrty and fallen and injured veterans pass and present.  NUFF SAID SNIPER (4 C K)



Komodo - Reread the thread about what the discussion is about.  Moreover, don't call into question my honour to my country or the fallen or the injured veterans of the past and present.  Finally, if you have something productive to say, say it and keep your comments about others to yourself.  Cheers.


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## Infanteer (16 Mar 2005)

"SNIPER": 

Thanks for the lecture, now piss off.

Nuff Said.


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## gate_guard (16 Mar 2005)

IMO what's the big deal? If you don't need a pin to remind you of Veteran's good for you. If it does spark at least a little more interest in the sacrifice that past and current CF members have given, all the better. Personally I think we've got more important things to worry about than wearing a pin on the uniform. If you don't like wearing it, give it a year then you can take it off. If you do appreciate the additional gesture towards the Vets, then wear it with pride. In other words, relax, you'll live longer.


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## Veterans son (16 Mar 2005)

I think that this new insignia pin is a great idea!
The fact that this is the Year of The Veteran gives even
more importance to this insignia pin.


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## the 48th regulator (16 Mar 2005)

> it suggests that treating veterans like shit is ok, as long as we wear dime store trinkets to make everything all better.   Did you get enough support when you returned from your tour, Tess?   And will the fact that I'm wearing this button in Calgary redress that?   Do you think the families of the Merchant Mariners who died without their hard-earned pensions will really be moved by this gesture?



Support I received when I returned was phenomenal, why? The Media was all over us, our supporters were on us like a fat kid on a smarty. As time wore on and there was no need for that support...

Support after that...hmm let me see with statements like;

"Your Veteran's file means absolutely nothing to me, your injuries are minor and I have seen people with much more severe injuries still serving"   _DND Medical Officer_

"If You cleared out like you were supposed to you wouldn't be in the mess that your are in now"   _DND Clerk handling some of my paperwork_

"Veterans Card, how in the world did you get one of those??   I don't think I can accept that you don't look like a Veteran" _Civie Staff at an eye clinic supported by veteran affairs_

"Dou you know how many times I have called your name??   I have the right mind of passing you on and letting you miss your appointment" _Mediacl Clerk at Veteran Affairs hearing  clinic to a ww2 vet , with hearing aids in both ears_


So you know what, maybe this won't help the Dead Merchant Marine get his pension.   It won't retract some of the attitude of the past, but I sure as hell hope that it will motivate one person,   just one person to think of what they say before they go and shoot their mouth off at a Vet.

So I will take my pin and Mail it to the CDS or The Honourable Albina Guarnieri, and ask them to send it to someone else.   Someone who is in need of some remembering. 

dileas

tess

p.s I will ask that it does not get sent to Calgary, as it seems the troops out there already remember.


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## Kat Stevens (17 Mar 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> Agree 100%.  I think this is downright silly, particularly as it appears that the pin is to be worn on combats (I had thought it was DEU only).  :  What's it prove?
> 
> TR


I agree too.  While we're at it, let's pull down the cenotaphs, doze in the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and do away with Remembrance Day.  After all, good Canadians don't need reminders of the fallen, do they?

CHIMO,  Kat


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## Bic519 (17 Mar 2005)

â Å“Wearing this insignia during this special year is both a demonstration of support and thanks for those who have gone before, and those who will come after.â ?

It would appear from the news release that the wearing of the pin is not to remind the soldier of those who have gone before, nor to educate civilians but as a nod to the veterans and as a show of thanks.


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## KOMODO (17 Mar 2005)

MAYBE THE DIRECTING STAFF SHOULD WATCH WHAT THEY SAY!!!!!!
ONE OF YOUR STAFF COMPARING THIS PIN TO A PRIZE IN A CRACKER JACK BOX!
IF YOUR GOING TO POST A THREAD BE PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE NEGATIVE AND THE POSITIVE.
THANKS INFANTEER(DIRECTING STAFF) FOR TELL A VETERAN TO PISS OF. IT SHOWS YOUR TRUE COLOURS.


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## Infanteer (17 Mar 2005)

KOMODO said:
			
		

> THANKS INFANTEER(DIRECTING STAFF) FOR TELL A VETERAN TO PISS OF. IT SHOWS YOUR TRUE COLOURS.



You're the one you said that I (among others) should be ashamed of myself and questioned the integrity of our service.

As I said, the intention was noble, but the delivery was silly (if indeed the thing was to be worn on the combats).

Now, if you're going to play Internet tough guy, be prepared to accept that others may not appreciate your snide comments on their commitment.

I don't get why people here are assuming that by thinking this thing is silly means we're insensitive louts who could care less about the vets.  Give your head a shake.


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## Teddy Ruxpin (17 Mar 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> I agree too.   While we're at it, let's pull down the cenotaphs, doze in the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and do away with Remembrance Day.   After all, good Canadians don't need reminders of the fallen, do they?



Since you chose to quote me, I suppose I should respond, but I won't engage in sarcasm to make my point.   I also won't get into a pi**ing contest with anyone on this board about my service or anyone else's.   I know of at least three people who have posted here who do not support this little pin idea but who more than qualify as veterans - myself included.

Frankly, I am agast that there are people who assume, as apparently Kat Stevens has, that a lack of support for wearing a pin on a uniform extrapolates to a lack of support for veterans and/or remembrance.   Personally, I happen to believe that the entire "Year of the Veteran" campaign is a cynical ploy to gain public support after a series of negative press stories last year regarding government support to veterans in general.   DND (and, by extension, the CF) is just along for the ride.

Tempest in a teapot?   Yup, but it's indicative of bigger things...   'Nuff said from me.

TR


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## Kat Stevens (17 Mar 2005)

Okay, here we go...firstly, I never called ANYONES service into question.  Secondly, I agree:  It IS an insignificant little bauble... so why all the fuss about pinning it onto a uniform most troopies will only wear a dozen times in the next year... tempest indeed...

CHIMO,  Kat


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## Infanteer (17 Mar 2005)

Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> so why all the fuss about pinning it onto a uniform most troopies will only wear a dozen times in the next year... tempest indeed...



I think that the original picture and explanation, the true cause of the furor, was over the fact that this was "daily wear" on the combat uniform.   Now it appears that this is something to be worn one the DEU, so the problem was dropped until people thought they would jump in and play "internet tough guy" (see my above response).

I don't think there is really anything to start spinning the tires for on this thread anymore - I'm sure we'll all have no problem throwing the pin on next to most of the other baubles on the dress uniform (if this is the case).

BTW - does anyone else think the "Year of the Veteran" is silly - shouldn't every year be a "Year of the Veteran"?


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## Spr.Earl (17 Mar 2005)

I wear this every Day 365 day's a year.

But I do see where Rick is coming from that those of us serving to day while wearing our Uniforms also remember every day what those who have gone before us have done for us here to day.


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## QORvanweert (17 Mar 2005)

KOMODO said:
			
		

> MAYBE THE DIRECTING STAFF SHOULD WATCH WHAT THEY SAY!!!!!!
> ONE OF YOUR STAFF COMPARING THIS PIN TO A PRIZE IN A CRACKER JACK BOX!
> IF YOUR GOING TO POST A THREAD BE PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE NEGATIVE AND THE POSITIVE.
> THANKS INFANTEER(DIRECTING STAFF) FOR TELL A VETERAN TO PISS OF. IT SHOWS YOUR TRUE COLOURS.


Komodo, nowhere did you say you were a veteran. Your profile does not mention any service, and your mannerisms were suggestive of someone closer to my own age, which I assumed at first. If you want to be treated with respect for your past service then by all means you are welcome, but you have to notify us of that. Hence the 'profile' portion. It also brings into doubt your own remembrance of past veterans when you are not proud(?) enough to tell us upfront that you are one.

      'Nuff said.
        NintendoNinjaJTF8snyper


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## KOMODO (17 Mar 2005)

My sincere apologies to anyone that I offended. I'm still serving strong and a proud member of the CF soon to be retired due to a serious Physical wound overseas. My tours include
1. Somalia(AB REGIMENT) , Rwanda, Zaire, Bosnia(3 RCR) and a few other tours I wish not to discuss.
Every one has the right to remember there Veterans in there own way. I was just ticked of 
because some people had a hard ache with this pin.

Cheers
many apologies

Sniper 4 c k


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## Infanteer (17 Mar 2005)

Komodo, no problem - I think people were just attacking seperate concepts here and got their backs up.  Many fully support giving more to the vets, they only feel the pin is the wrong way to put energy into doing so.

Cheers and welcome to Army.ca.

Infanteer


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## Armymedic (17 Mar 2005)

Horse_Soldier said:
			
		

> Just to keep the information 100% on track - it will not be worn on combats.   DEU only.   That information came from higher headquarters and was passed on by our RSM last night.



Here in Afgh...we got told it was to be worn....on cbt uniform...here in theater.

I am sure more direction will follow

BTW I think it is a great idea, but I'd rather see a larger patch or something, not a pin.


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## Doug VT (18 Mar 2005)

The "Official" message that has materialized, states that the pin will be worn on ALL uniforms (except GORTEX), above the name tag.   I have yet to actually see a live pin, anywhere...


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Mar 2005)

The way I see it is that it costs me nothing, it takes no more than putting on my epaulet, it serves to identify a cause. I am a proud veteran and will have no problem making sure it is properly worn, according to protocol, according to direction by my chain of command, as stipulated by the CF CWO.

Plain and simple, it's an order from the top. It puts no one in harms way by wearing it. It's another uniform accoutrement. If you don't like it, tough. It's the order of the day. If you look at yourself as a true soldier, you'll do as directed. Get over it.

There's plenty more wrong with our military, without getting wrapped around the axle about trying to pay some sort of honour to the vets that deserve it and provided our heritage. Quit being so child like and accept that at least, for a change, someone is trying to recognize the sacrifice of the people gone before them.

Saying you pay homage to the Veteran's sacrifice by wearing a poppy once a year is bullshit. How many serving members, Reg and Reserve belong to the Legion. It's dying as fast as the original members. You should have joined and gone for your first beer the day after you got sworn in. Help perpetuate one of the few good causes we have left. Don't belong yet? Shame on you! In spades!

Veterans deserve every iota and possible chance of recognition we can afford. If one single veterans chest swells with pride, and he feels good about my little cracker jack pin, it's completely worth the effort.

I, for one, will not feel any the less of a soldier, to wear a pin, that brings joy and recognition to any vet that served when this country asked. I can only hope that when I'm in their shoes, others will feel the same.

Personally, I think that this thread is an affront and insult to the very people we are trying to recognise. Toss your crap excuses and bullshit all you want. You hurt only one group, and that's the Vets.

If your very, very lucky, one day you MAY be able to count yourselves within their ranks.


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## Infanteer (18 Mar 2005)

Recceguy, I think you're being unfair here.   I, along with others, have simply disagreed with a policy for a variety of reasons.   I don't see why we are getting tagged as "disrespectful" or "insulting" to Vets.

Of course we are going to throw the bauble on, just like we put on our TACVEST that the government says "wear".   No one is claiming that they're going to disobey an order - people are calling foul on something and they're free to do so without having their service or commitment called to task (not by you, Recceguy, but by others here).

I'm not keen on this because I see it as frivolous - especially if worn on a Combat uniform (which amounts to mechanic's coveralls).   Are these things going to make or break a vets day?

My girlfriends Grandfather is an old time rancher (80) and a vet.   He landed at Sicily, was wounded badly, and transfered to Northern Europe where he fought and finished the war.   He's adopted me as an "unofficial" grandson in many ways because of the simple fact that I, like you and others, are following in his footsteps by putting the uniform on.   He loves to have a beer with me and just tell some stories or hear some of the things we do now.   He's not looking at the uniform to see if we got something for "Year of the Veteran" - the uniform is enough for these guys.

"Year of the Veteran" is silly - every year is "Year of the Veteran".   This is a dynamic and ever-present group of Canadians, so we always need to keep them at the forfront of national recognition.   We choose to represent the sacrifice of both the living and the dead with the poppy.   You can call that bullshit - but I along with many others go out of our way to buy a new one everyday around November because they tend to fall off all the time.   Many Canadians will do this - I know because I've stood in the rain and sold them to people.   Don't sell the poppy short.

Again, I feel "Year of the Veteran" is silly - I'm going to agree with Teddy Ruxpin that there seems to be some fishy motivation behind the whole show.   Soldiers wearing combats are the last people that need to be reminded of the sacrifices of those who came before them - they understand and recognize this every morning on the way to work when they march past their Regimental Colours.   I stated in my "gripe" that I would rather see the political and material energy put towards a better method of recognizing Canada's veterans.

Anyways, I just wanted to point this out, as it seemed that those on the "nay" side (myself included) were getting the shaft for seeing things different.

Infanteer - Full Legion Member since Nov/04.


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Mar 2005)

I never said wearing the Poppy was bullshit. I said the people that put it on once a year and forget the Vets the other 364 is bullshit.

As to the pin, like I say, it cost me nothing to purchase or time to put it on. If ONE Vet feels good for it, it's worth it.

Maybe I was heavy handed saying the thread was insulting and I apologize. I just can't see why there would be so much adversity to the pin. I see nothing wrong with it. My 00.02, that's all


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## Veterans son (18 Mar 2005)

I am glad to see that CF members like Infanteer are members of the Royal Canadian Legion! 
 We can all agree that it is important to remember the Veterans everyday and every year, not just during the Year of the Veteran, correct?
I am a Legion member myself and have marched in parades with both WW2 and present-day veterans, 
and am honoured to be associated with these people.

I am proud to be associated with the Legion as a member and though I have never worn the CF uniform,
I can serve my community by wearing the Legion uniform with great pride.

I am wearing the Legion uniform not only to support the Legion itself, but in memory of my grandfather and
father. By doing so, I hope to honour their memory as they deserve my respect by serving during war(and in my
father's case, during wartime and peacetime.)

Again, thank you Infanteer and to others who have joined the Royal Canadian Legion!


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## Edward Campbell (18 Mar 2005)

I think I may have mentioned this several months ago and, if I did, I was, most likely, bombarded with irate replies.   That being said, the purpose of the poppy is twofold:

"¢	To raise money for veterans in need; and

"¢	To quote the Royal Canadian Legion, to serve as _â ?...   a symbol of tribute to the more than 117,000 Canadians who have died in the service of the country ...â ?_

I am only mildly perturbed although a bit more perplexed at the very, very large number of Canadians who think that the poppy and, more important, Remembrance Day, is _all about our veterans._   Not so; Remembrance Day is about those who did not become veterans; they didn't live long enough to become veterans; they were (mostly) killed in action; they are those who _â ?...shall not grow old: as we that are left grow old.   Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.â ?_

I'm a fan of _Veterans' Memorial Highways_ and veteran's vanity plates and pins, for that matter.   Veterans have earned our respect and gratitude and it is right and proper that we honour them, just as they - the veterans, themselves - established our Remembrance Day traditions so that they, and we, could honour our war dead.   November 11th is when we all, veterans, serving soldiers and civilians alike, pay tribute to a (thankfully) small but select group of Canadians: our nations's *finest*.   It is *all about* them.


----------



## binrat69 (18 Mar 2005)

Have been reading everyones opion on this so lets put it to a vote.


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## Infanteer (18 Mar 2005)

I think everybody has made their stance clear....


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## Armymedic (18 Mar 2005)

I like the pin...I like the concept. What I don't like is that they want us to wear it here in Afghanistan, where wh hang around nobody but other soldiers, to wear the pin. I hope when I am wearing my body armour, I am 'allowed' to take it off, so it doesn't dig into my chest.


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## kincanucks (21 Mar 2005)

I can't remember the last time I "wormed" something.  How can a word like worn be screwed up so bad.  Screw spending money on remembering veterans lets spend it on sending people back to school.


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## McG (21 Mar 2005)

Horse_Soldier said:
			
		

> Just to keep the information 100% on track - it will not be worn on combats. DEU only. That information came from higher headquarters and was passed on by our RSM last night.


I've only seen this pin a few times.   Every time it was being worn on combats.



			
				PIKER said:
			
		

> The pin will be proudly worn henceforth until the end of the year by all members of the CF. The pins will be issued as soon as possible via the office of the Canadian Forces Chief Warrant Officer.


What budget is the money coming from for these?   Is it from the Heritage minister, Veterans Affairs, or is it being cut from CF funds?



			
				Edward Campbell said:
			
		

> That being said, the purpose of the poppy is twofold:
> 
> "¢	To raise money for veterans in need;


Where is the money for this going?

Lastly,


			
				Edward Campbell said:
			
		

> I am only mildly perturbed although a bit more perplexed at the very, very large number of Canadians who think that the poppy and, more important, Remembrance Day, is _all about our veterans._   Not so; Remembrance Day is about those who did not become veterans; they didn't live long enough to become veterans; they were (mostly) killed in action; they are those who _â ?...shall not grow old: as we that are left grow old.   Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.â ?_





			
				Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> a) it implies we have forgotten about the vets (not just we in the military, but the country. I was led to believe Rememberance Day attendance has been up in recent years.)
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


What about an annual Veterans Day that is separate from Remembrance Day?


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## Michael Dorosh (21 Mar 2005)

Good constructive post, McG, and a good question (suggestion).

I don't feel we need a seperate day for Veterans.  Rememberance Day, to me, encompasses both, though Mr. Campbell has a good point in that originally (perhaps still) it was meant to honour the dead, not the quick.

We have entire weeks devoted to Gay Pride, we have Mother's Day, Father's Day, 10 days of Stampede in Calgary, you name it, we have a day for it.  I can't see making another "day" into anything special, frankly, no matter how well deserved.

No, I think it is something each Canadian should choose to do on their own.  If they are informed enough to honour veterans in their own way, they'll do so - a picture in a wallet, a framed set of medals in the home, or buying a beer for a serviceman in a pub.  I don't think we (they) should be in the position of asking for any more than that.

What we SHOULD do is entrench Rememberance Day once again as a national day to commemorate sacrifice - stop these asshole corporate bigwigs from giving extra time off at Christmas if you work on November 11th, close the effing malls and grocery stores, and actually stop and remember.  What each Canadian chooses to remember should be up to them.  Arm them in school with enough info to make an informed choice.


----------



## kincanucks (21 Mar 2005)

Why the hell is there a need to raise money for veterans in need?  Where hell is the government that is suppose to look after the people who served their country?


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## Edward Campbell (21 Mar 2005)

This is from the Legion's web site at: http://www.legion.ca/asp/docs/about/rempop_e.asp 



> More than $4 million in campaign funds are also distributed annually in accordance with the rules in place. Some of the activities supported are:
> 1.	Assistance to needy veterans and their dependents.
> 2.	The purchase of community medical appliances and the provision of medical research bursaries to the children and grand children of veterans.
> 3.	The funding of day care centres for adults, meals on wheels, transport and related services.
> ...



Part of the Legion's _self inflicted_ role is to lobby government for better benefits for veterans â â€œ acting much as a trade union does for workers.   Lobbying is not something that someone does for 'free' â â€œ it costs real money to design and mount 'communication' projects which aim to get you and I to complain to our MPs about veterans' problems and to get the press to pick up on those complaints.


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## S McKee (21 Mar 2005)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Screw spending money on remembering veterans lets spend it on sending people back to school.



All this bitching and moaning over a little remembrance pin, nefarious plots by the government and that statement "Screw spending money on vets..." WTF is your major malfunction? You are an officer in the CF right not some other country? (gotta be from Ont) You'd think they were asking us to wear a Nazi party pin. As for the rest of you, if your in the militia you only have to wear it two evenings a week and the occasional weekend, as for the regs I'll be proud to wear anything that reminds us and others of our vets past and present. Soldier on and quit whining


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## Big Foot (21 Mar 2005)

edited after reading thread more carefully


----------



## kincanucks (21 Mar 2005)

Jumper said:
			
		

> All this bitching and moaning over a little remembrance pin, nefarious plots by the government and that statement "Screw spending money on vets..." WTF is your major malfunction? You are an officer in the CF right not some other country? (gotta be from Ont) You'd think they were asking us to wear a Nazi party pin. As for the rest of you, if your in the militia you only have to wear it two evenings a week and the occasional weekend, as for the regs I'll be proud to wear anything that reminds us and others of our vets past and present. Soldier on and quit whining



Feel better?   Would you like to say it to my face now?   Listen up Mr. Sanctimonious, I have never had any problem remembering those who have served before me and I don't need a pin to remember them now.   This is a forum for opinions and if you don't like mine then so be it.   You want to make it personal and take your little adolescent potshots at officers so be it.   That still doesn't change my opinion.

I have removed the word "twit" because it is not a very nice word and I really don't know if Jumper is actually a "twit".   He may be but I don't know that for sure.


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## Michael Dorosh (21 Mar 2005)

Big Foot said:
			
		

> Very well said, Jumper. Is it such a hardship to wear a pin with your uniform? Honestly.



I bet you'd cry to high heaven if you were the one paying for them.

You obviously didn't read any of the posts; perhaps take some time and read carefully through the objections; if you have any intelligent questions, feel free to ask.


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## S McKee (21 Mar 2005)

kincanucks said:
			
		

> Feel better?   Would you like to say it to my face now?   Listen up Mr. Sanctimonious, I have never had any problem remembering those who have served before me and I don't need a pin to remember them now.   This is a forum for opinions and if you don't like mine then so be it.   You want to make it personal and take your little adolescent potshots at officers so be it.   That still doesn't change my opinion.
> 
> I have removed the word "twit" because it is not a very nice word and I really don't know if Jumper is actually a "twit".   He may be but I don't know that for sure.



Yes I fell better and you should know better than to make comments like that about vets.


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## Infanteer (21 Mar 2005)

:boring:

Are we done playing pokey chest and accusing eachother of hating veterans?

It seems like many are using this thread as a chance to take some sort of moral highground or something - try and remember that we are all on the same team here....


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## Veterans son (21 Mar 2005)

McG

I believe that your idea of an annual Veteran's Day is a good one! 

I believe we all agree that that it is important to honour and respect the
veterans for their service to their country!


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## MPIKE (21 Mar 2005)

I'm not sure how the thread was edited to add the poll and my subject headline being changed??  But I guess someone thought it needed to be voted on???   I think forum spoke for itself before vote was added..

note -- If you are going to change a thread at least have the grammar/spelling sorted out! and at least take credit for your change and advise the originator. 

It was only my intention to post the article as it was interesting. I never imagined it would stir up the group as it has.  I thought for sure the posts would of revolved more around the new definition of "veteran" that has been recently made to include "all" of us.  (jury still out on that one)  

anyways motion to close...new business
Piker


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## McG (22 Mar 2005)

When two threads are merged, if one had a poll then the new thread will have that poll.  There were two threads on this topic and now there is one.  Nobody has changed your posts.

What is the direction on airforce types wearing the pin on flying bases?


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## JBP (22 Mar 2005)

I think it's a great idea, except that are the Vets going to notice?!?!

Also, another point of view, on my BMQ course, about 1/3 of us don't have cap badges (the "cornflake") or slipons (not like we have rank anyway...), because there is a shortage. SO..... Why couldn't they have made enough capbadges and slipons? Seems like we could have done something different to commemorate the veterans...

Joe


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## Calculator Jockey (22 Mar 2005)

As far as I have heard here in Cold Lake, we will be getting them issued to us sometime mid April. And we will be wearing them on all orders of dress.

As for flight line, chances are they are to be removed as they are FOD. And most wear coveralls anyways while working on the aircraft.


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## Fishbone Jones (2 May 2005)

Anyone received these yet?


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## Michael OLeary (2 May 2005)

I received one today, most of the unit had theirs last week while I was away on HHT.


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## childs56 (2 May 2005)

CFSATE was selling them for $3.00 a piece a few weeks ago. Then all of a sudden they had Airmen signing for them then saying don't loose them as we need them back.  My gripe with this are a few things, 1, why does the airforce always want to make a buck off its members, 2 why do i have to wear a pin to commemorate the Veteran, I think the Uniform i wear is a lot more appreciated by them, instead of a little hard to see lapel pin, why not send the troops out to the legions and organize a CF wide visit the veteran time, where every week Military members in uniform, with out getting sloshed go out and visit the veterans at the legions and hospitals and may be even their homes if they cannot get out.  3,  I thought that we were not suppose to puncture the new combat clothing with pins and such intentionally. hence why the poppy is located on the epaulet
I personally do not see why we have spent money on pins to wear when we have troops with out cap badges, even if they are QL2 and reservists. I am sure the veterans do like to see us wearing these pins when they get the chance to see us doing so, but i am also sure that our leaders could have found another way to have shown their appreciation to those well deserved Veterans. Good intentions but i feel it can be better received if we got to  to visit them, in uniform and where they spend their time. Cheers


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## the 48th regulator (2 May 2005)

here we go again,

you did read the rest of the thread eh? 

dileas

tess


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## Fishbone Jones (3 May 2005)

Sorry Tess. ;D Couldn't resist restarting it. Just felt in that kind of a mood tonight


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## TCBF (3 May 2005)

I like the idea of a Veteran's Day.  Separate from rememberance day.

By the way, the government sets the policy - owns - Rememberance day, not the RCL.

 To me, Rememberance Day is about the dead, not the living, and when I did a Nov 11 Presentation to a School in Edmonton a few years back, I spoke at length about the dead.

You have to watch the political correctness creeping in.  At the "Butterdome" ceremony in Edmonton, they played John Lennon's "Imagine".  I complained.  The Legion rep - some kid - didn't see the incongruity of remembering the men who saved our country by playing a song which - among other things - sees a glorious future with "and no religion, too."  I imagine some of our dead are rolling over in their graves.  

Also, there is a tendency to NOT use ALL of Col MaCrea's  poem.  Something about "Take up our quarrel with the foe/to you with failing hands we through/the torch be yours to hold it high..." etc.  And if we fail they shall not sleep in Flander's Fields.

Don't imagine they're sleeping too bloody well now, are they?

I guess that's why the last of the poem is considered "no longer relevant".

God help us all.


----------



## bossi (3 May 2005)

Okay - I just finished reading all six pages of this thread ... and maybe I missed it, but ...
Is there anybody else out there who would have preferred to have seen this pin issued to EVERY school child in Canada, instead of just the CF?  Wouldn't it have made more of an impact?  Wouldn't it have been more meaningful for our veterans if they were to see "Canada's future" wearing a visible sign of respect for those who served and defended Canada's freedom ... ?

The poppy quarter was a nice idea, but poorly executed (i.e. not enough minted, paint wore off, some Tim Horton's outlets "missed the point" by trying to force people to buy something in order to get a coin, people moaning and complaining, etc.)

This pin was ... an idea, but ... also poorly executed (i.e. not enough minted, not issued 01 Jan 05, some outlets "missed the point" by trying to sell them, people moaning and complaining, etc. ... about a lawful command ... hmmm ... ya know - I kinda think there are quite a few more important issues to worry about ...)

Ya know what?  The expression "soldier on" comes to mind ... Let's give it a try.  
Maybe then we could harness some of this energy and shameful predilection for infighting and insulting others who also serve, and turn it against a "real" enemy.


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## aesop081 (3 May 2005)

bossi said:
			
		

> Okay - I just finished reading all six pages of this thread ...



Can i get the cole's notes version of this thread  ;D


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## bossi (3 May 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> Can i get the cole's notes version of this thread   ;D



Oh, that's just so offensive ... (oh, wait - wrong thread ...)


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## Erborn (3 May 2005)

Is it possible for a Vet to get one of the pins 
I would be proud to wear it
BobbyC


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## TCBF (3 May 2005)

I was given mine 90 minutes ago. I will see if the RSM has an extra, and PM you if I get one.


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## garb811 (3 May 2005)

Although I understand where some of the sentiments are coming from I just can't help but wonder why to some here it is as if the world is coming to an end.  We have a long and "glorious" tradition of wearing items to pay honour to individuals or groups (125 and QGJ), we receive honours which we can wear for good service to our community (anyone actually read the MMM and OMM citations?), for good service over a period of time (CD), some take great pride in wearing "uniform" articles which were bestowed in the past for brave deeds, exemplary service etc etc.  The way I look at it, if someone can wear a LFC Commendation for raising money for charity then putting this up for awhile to honour our veterans is the least I can do.  Does it look cheap?  Not sure, haven't seen one in person.  Was it poorly implemented, oh yeah, undoubtedly.  Should it be getting peoiple's knickers in this big of a knot, I don't think so.  Besides, IIRC Dress Regs are issued on the authority of the CDS so if he said we all had to wear ballet slippers in honour of World Ballet Appreciation Day, then so be it.


With that said, I think I'll find a friend and head out to the ballet for a cold one.


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## Michael Dorosh (3 May 2005)

MP 00161 said:
			
		

> I just can't help but wonder why to some here it is as if the world is coming to an end.



Nice strawman.


----------



## garb811 (3 May 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Nice strawman.


Indeed.  Glad you couldn't resist the opportunity to post such a stimulating comment, anything else?


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## Michael Dorosh (3 May 2005)

MP 00161 said:
			
		

> Indeed.  Glad you couldn't resist the opportunity to post such a stimulating comment, anything else?



There was nothing else in your post worthy of a response.  Hope you enjoyed the ballet.


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## garb811 (4 May 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> There was nothing else in your post worthy of a response.   Hope you enjoyed the ballet.



Yet another illustration on why some people here figure the only opinion you're interested in is your own.  Next time, if you'd like to make a patronizing remark simply to belittle someone's thoughts, you might want to do it via PM unless the whole point is to show the world that you can actually use "strawman" in a sentence.  Have a nice day.


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## Michael Dorosh (4 May 2005)

MP 00161 said:
			
		

> Yet another illustration on why some people here figure the only opinion you're interested in is your own.  Next time, if you'd like to make a patronizing remark simply to belittle someone's thoughts, you might want to do it via PM unless the whole point is to show the world that you can actually use "strawman" in a sentence.  Have a nice day.



Nonsense, your thoughts deserved belittling.  You stated that people here "think the world is coming to an end" - in other words, are suggesting that some posters are hysterical.  I see no evidence of that.  So you're building a case against a faulty proposition.  A strawman.  No one here suggested the fabric of time and space would be permanently altered, they said it was an idea they don't agree with for valid reasons.   Writing these reasons off as hysteria is inaccurate and insulting, and really poor form in any civilized discussion area.  If you don't see that, it's unfortunate.  If you don't want to be patronized, that's fine, but you weren't being patronized.  You were called on being patronizing to others.


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## axeman (4 May 2005)

any way its the year of the veteran and the day is soon apon us to celabrate the fact . ou there on the west coast we still aint got the pins and some of us are those veterans that we are supporting any other places like this?


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## Blakey (4 May 2005)

Say again words twice...?

{edit] NM, think i got it now. So, you are saying that in Edm there are no pins?, and you're a vet in which you have no pin to celebrate yourself???[/edit]


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## axeman (5 May 2005)

you got it darned stubby fingers i need a typeing wand . well i want them not only to celabrate my self but my froends who have gotten out and have passed away on op or back here in canada,


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## Fishbone Jones (6 May 2005)

What axeman said (even if he was a tad hard to understand). Me too. It's not just the old guys, but many of my current aquaintences. Kinda like a nod and a wink when we see each other.


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## pbi (9 May 2005)

I think I agree with axeman here. When I'm gone out of the service, I'd like it if somebody took a moment to think about what me and all the other thousands of Canadians who have passed through (or passed on...) the military since 1974 did for their country, be it ever so small compared to the deeds of the vets of WWI, WWII and Korea. On that basis, I support the YOTV pin 100%. I am wearing mine proudly: yesterday I attended the YOTV/VE Day ceremonies at the Legislature and Union Station here in Winnipeg, and I was reminded why the pin is important.

Was the issue of the pin mismanaged? Yes, IMHO it was. For some reason we are becoming unable to distribute mass awards without turning the effort into an embarassing shambles that irritates half the service: the Jubilee ribbon was a perfect example.  But, that aside, administrative incompetence does not IMHO cheapen the meaning of the pin.

The only thing I fear (and perhaps it is a pointless fear about the sky falling/world ending/millenium approaching, etc...) is that we may now find ourselves "expected" to tote all manner of pins, ribbons, badges, etc for every "PC" flavour-of-the day campaign under the sun, just as we now half mast our flags every other day.

Cheers.


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## Sergeant295 (10 May 2005)

I have mixed feelings on it.  Though I agree with some that say that World War/Korea Veterans are appreciated by all CF members, and keeping that in mind I suppose this money could have been put into something a little more appropriate due to the monitary needs of several areas of the Forces.  However I suppose when you get down to it, it probobly only cost a few cents per member to get these pins, and it is more than certain that all those men deserve that at least so lets just wear the pins and tangibly show our appreciation, even though it was always there.


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## Highland Laddie (12 May 2005)

Ho Humm... Its May12th and I still haven't been issued a pin yet...How are we supposed to commemorate the Year of the Veteran with a pin if it is received almost have way through the year??


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## Michael Dorosh (12 May 2005)

pbi said:
			
		

> just as we now half *mast* our flags every other day.
> 
> Cheers.



Care to rephrase that, GI Joe?


----------



## 1feral1 (12 May 2005)

I approve 100%, as anything to recognise our veterans, and the sacrifice the lives of 45,000 Canadians not so long ago is a good thing.

They are in their late 70's and 80's now, and one day sooner than later, these living Canadian treasures will all be gone.

Regards,

Wes


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## Sandbag (13 May 2005)

I can only speak from a personal experience, but to answer the question "is the pin important?", its importance was highlighted to me through contact with Korea War veterans on their revisit 3 weeks ago.  I was at Pusan having the privilege of attending the UN ceremony with the Commonwealth Vets and a fine old Canadian gentlemen came up to me and proceeded to tell me that I was out of dress.  (Him being a Royal, and me a Patricia you can image my first gut instinct).  He then took his pin off his uniform and pinned it on mine.  Like most others here, I had read of this pin but it hasn't been issued yet.

We then together walked through the cemetary visiting the fallen Canadians from the War.  I helped him find people he had known and take pictures of others' resting places so that he could take it back to Canada.  We then moved up to Kapyong and conducted the ceremony there with the rest of the Commonwealth participants.

To him it was important enough to give to me.  To me it is now highly significant.


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## 1feral1 (13 May 2005)

Good post Sandbag!

Regards,

Wes


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## FastEddy (13 May 2005)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> I wear brass oak leaf shoulder titles - one of only two Canadian regiments in history to be awarded such an honour -




Very interesting and distinctive, what is the other Regiment and for what action?

Regards.


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## Michael Dorosh (13 May 2005)

FastEddy said:
			
		

> Very interesting and distinctive, what is the other Regiment and for what action?
> 
> Regards.



http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/traditions/distinctions.htm


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## McG (17 May 2005)

Here is some clarification that was passed on the CWO net across the Army:


> Realize that the message is not black and white. The message does not say it is mandatory to have it on all orders of dress 24/7. It was approved to wear on all orders. It means for example, you are on parade...It could be part of parade directive regarding dress. Like the poppy.
> 
> Not wearing the pin on combat because of safety and security measures is perfectly fine and it makes sense. ...  It is a good gesture that the CF is going to practice for a year. I have fielded a wack of questions. No on operations, no on ceremonial guard on recommendation because of damage to scarlets, no on rank flap


This means a big part of the direction should be coming from the unit CoC unless, as is possible, the LF areas or any other formation within the Army has established its own policy for subordinate units.


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## bossi (19 May 2005)

MCG said:
			
		

> ... This means a big part of the direction should be coming from the unit CoC unless, as is possible, the LF areas or any other formation within the Army has established its own policy for subordinate units.



There has been considerable discussion on this topic at work, and it has been frustrating.
In the profession of arms, we speak of discipline and loyalty (both upwards and downwards ...).
And, in the Orders process we spend time, energy and effort to ensure the Commander's Intent is both known and understood.

Accordingly, for those who feel it is some sort of affront or insult to wear the pin on their Army uniform, I would very politely ask them to reconsider if they are truly respecting the intent of this pin:



> ... The Chief of the Defence Staff, General Rick Hillier, has authorized CF members to wear the pin on their uniforms â Å“...to mark this extremely important and solemn observance.â ? â Å“The service men and women of today become the veterans of tomorrow,â ? said General Hillier. *â Å“Wearing this insignia during this special year is both a demonstration of support and thanks for those who have gone before, and those who will come after."* ...



If it's good enough for General Rick, it's good enough for me.

P.S. (Sandbag - I can't thank you enough for your post about being pinned in Pusan)


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## concerneddad (24 May 2005)

You can get a pin by calling 1-800-443-0394 (Veteran Affairs) and they will mail one to any Canadian resident who asks. I know it is not well advertised but I called them and the pin is for all people to wear in honour of all veterans.


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