# Ql3 course



## cac1993 (14 Jul 2016)

Just wondering if there are any QL3 courses scheduled for MP in the next year. 
When I attended my MPAC they mention possibly after Christmas, however my basic doesn't finish until mid Nov.. Just not sure that leaves me a lot of time to get loaded. 

I asked my recruiter and he doesn't seem to know.

Thanks


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## putz (14 Jul 2016)

Historically the QL 3 class were run in the  start of the new year and late summer/fall.  Summer time given to reserve training.  I'm not too sure how it works now with the new ql3 and larger class sizes though.


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## Cperry (17 Jul 2016)

As far as I know there should be a course every August and January.


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## RedcapCrusader (17 Jul 2016)

I'm about to blow all your minds....


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## Lightguns (18 Jul 2016)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> I'm about to blow all your minds....



If this was Turkey, I say someone is preparing to stop a coup.......


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## Poacher434 (18 Jul 2016)

There is a course starting in the next month or so. co-worker of mine is loaded.


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## RedcapCrusader (18 Jul 2016)

Poacher434 said:
			
		

> There is a course starting in the next month or so. co-worker of mine is loaded.



These are the remaining courses for 2016, the next one begins in January 2017. No exact dates, but if not same as 2016 dates, very close.


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## OttCap (22 Jan 2017)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> These are the remaining courses for 2016, the next one begins in January 2017. No exact dates, but if not same as 2016 dates, very close.



If the dates run pretty similar to this, would a recruit be sent straight from BMQ to QL3? 

I'm asking because I start BMQ March 20, and based on the length of the courses, I wouldn't have time to do BMQ & BMQ-L before the August QL3. Is it a requirement to do BMQ-L first, if so would I then be on PAT for potentially 6+months until the January QL3?


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## RedcapCrusader (22 Jan 2017)

OttCap said:
			
		

> If the dates run pretty similar to this, would a recruit be sent straight from BMQ to QL3?
> 
> I'm asking because I start BMQ March 20, and based on the length of the courses, I wouldn't have time to do BMQ & BMQ-L before the August QL3. Is it a requirement to do BMQ-L first, if so would I then be on PAT for potentially 6+months until the January QL3?



Basic is only 11 weeks, BMQ-L is another what, 6 weeks? If that?

 You'll probably be done in time, otherwise, yes you will be placed on PAT. The RegF doesn't like to mix up career progression and skip courses and the MP branch doesn't want to have their new members have to be distracted from their OJT to go back to BMQ-L. Not only that but you'd be a trade qualified Corporal on a course with a whole bunch of No-Hook untrained privates. Coming from someone that was given a waiver... It's not a fun time.

There will be opportunities for you to do other learning while on PAT such as OPFOR, Driver Training, you can take courses on DND Learn or CPKN.


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## Habs (22 Jan 2017)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Basic is only 11 weeks, BMQ-L is another what, 6 weeks? If that?
> 
> You'll probably be done in time, otherwise, yes you will be placed on PAT. The RegF doesn't like to mix up career progression and skip courses and the MP branch doesn't want to have their new members have to be distracted from their OJT to go back to BMQ-L. Not only that but you'd be a trade qualified Corporal on a course with a whole bunch of No-Hook untrained privates. Coming from someone that was given a waiver... It's not a fun time.
> 
> There will be opportunities for you to do other learning while on PAT such as OPFOR, Driver Training, you can take courses on DND Learn or CPKN.



BMQL is a month. It's only 21 training days or something.

The rest isn't true, loads of guys on my QL3 didn't have their BMQL, and there's some at my Det that still don't, and were only put on it because they were being promoted to MCpl. The branch would rather have MPs out on the road doing patrols where we are hurting for bodies, rather than sitting in PAT watching TV all day.

BMQL is an irrelevant course for MPs in terms of domestic policing, and it's really not a priority. Heck, I know of MPs that deployed without it.

It should be organized so that guys coming in have their BMQ and BMQL before their QL3, but it's just not the case.


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## OttCap (22 Jan 2017)

Habs said:
			
		

> BMQL is a month. It's only 21 training days or something.
> 
> The rest isn't true, loads of guys on my QL3 didn't have their BMQL, and there's some at my Det that still don't, and were only put on it because they were being promoted to MCpl. The branch would rather have MPs out on the road doing patrols where we are hurting for bodies, rather than sitting in PAT watching TV all day.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply, I guess it seems to depend on the circumstances when I get to that point. 

If I don't get BMQ-L right away, how does that work for the promotion to Cpl? I know during BMQ I will be a Pvt., But I thought the promotion happened after the completion of BMQ and BMQ-L. Pay wise, I am taking a fairly significant pay cut as a Pvt. Until the promotion occurs and I will have my SO home in Ottawa and still have a house and bills to pay for. I can swallow the cut for 3-5 months but to wait a year until after Ql3 would be extremely tough financially.


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## Habs (22 Jan 2017)

You'll get promoted right after BMQ, probably on your grad parade actually. You'll get back pay to make up for the time spent as a Pte.

BMQL has nothing to do with getting promoted to Cpl, you'll be a Cpl on BMQL one way or another.

Think of it this way: You need BMQ to do QL3, and need QL3 to get your badge. That's it. BMQL has nothing to do with becoming an MP, it's simply a career course you'll have to complete sooner or later to be promoted to MCpl. Getting it done earlier would be better, so you don't have to worry about it later on down the road.

It can be confusing because other trades you need BMQL to be promoted, but BMQ = Cpl. QL3 = Cpl with badge, start doing patrols at a Det. BMQL is simply a career course, like QL5, QL6B, etc. 0 relevancy with becoming a Cpl or getting your badge.

You could be a Cpl with your QL5 and have 5 years in the branch, and would not hear about BMQL until they want to promote you to MCpl. And then comes your PLQ, but that's a different story.

(the only reason we do BMQL is because we are a 'purple' trade, as in you can be Air Force, Army, or Navy in the trade. Our trade doesn't belong to any single entity like the Infantry does to Army, Pilot to Air Force, etc. Same as Supply Techs and the like. BMQL has nothing to do with being an MP, simply a career progression course to move up in rank)

Hope that makes sense. Feel free to PM me any questions.


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## OttCap (22 Jan 2017)

Habs said:
			
		

> You'll get promoted right after BMQ, probably on your grad parade actually. You'll get back pay to make up for the time spent as a Pte.
> 
> BMQL has nothing to do with getting promoted to Cpl, you'll be a Cpl on BMQL one way or another.
> 
> ...



That makes perfect sense, and significantly shortens the time until Cpl. The back pay is an added bonus I hadn't considered before. 

I'm going to have to get used to all these acronyms and different courses now that I've joined the CAF. You have been a great help however, so thank you. I will definitely reach out to you if I have any more questions.


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## RedcapCrusader (22 Jan 2017)

Habs said:
			
		

> You'll get promoted right after BMQ, probably on your grad parade actually. You'll get back pay to make up for the time spent as a Pte.
> 
> BMQL has nothing to do with getting promoted to Cpl, you'll be a Cpl on BMQL one way or another.
> 
> ...



Times sure have changed, wow.


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## Habs (22 Jan 2017)

OttCap said:
			
		

> That makes perfect sense, and significantly shortens the time until Cpl. The back pay is an added bonus I hadn't considered before.
> 
> I'm going to have to get used to all these acronyms and different courses now that I've joined the CAF. You have been a great help however, so thank you. I will definitely reach out to you if I have any more questions.



Haha yup, there aren't 2 languages in the military, there's 3: English, French, and acronyms.



			
				LunchMeat said:
			
		

> Times sure have changed, wow.



Lots more changes coming soon as well, but we all know how long changes take in the CAF.


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## OttCap (8 May 2017)

Does anyone know when QL3 is scheduled for 2017? I'm at BMQ now due to graduate a month from now. I've talked to another MP recruit graduating this week and he received his posting message saying he's heading to Trenton for OJT. I'm assuming this means there isn't a QL3 for quite some time?


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## sarahsmom (8 May 2017)

Or it could meant this upcoming course is full and he will be on the next course.
There is usually room for 24 candidates on MOST military courses.


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## garb811 (14 May 2017)

OttCap said:
			
		

> Does anyone know when QL3 is scheduled for 2017? I'm at BMQ now due to graduate a month from now. I've talked to another MP recruit graduating this week and he received his posting message saying he's heading to Trenton for OJT. I'm assuming this means there isn't a QL3 for quite some time?


There is a QL3 serial starting in late summer.  If you're at BMQ now, there are very, very good odds you, and any other MP with you, are on it.

MP have changed the way we handle Personnel Awaiting Training.  Once you're done your BMQ the odds are you will be sent to the Base closest to where you were recruited for OJE until right before your course.  This benefits PAT pers because they can actually do something other than make photocopies and it helps the Academy and Borden by not having to employ/house pers who aren't on course.

Further, as illustrated by the course dates posted earlier in the thread, we have also changed the scheduling of how we are running QL3s.  Instead of being spread throughout the year, the new Academy allows for "super courses" to be run to maximize training resources.  This means 2 x English and 1 x French QL3 are run concurrently with offsets in the training schedules.  The new academy has also resulted in the courses being shortened because everything is now in one building instead of spread all over Borden.


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## OttCap (14 May 2017)

garb811 said:
			
		

> There is a QL3 serial starting in late summer.  If you're at BMQ now, there are very, very good odds you, and any other MP with you, are on it.
> 
> MP have changed the way we handle Personnel Awaiting Training.  Once you're done your BMQ the odds are you will be sent to the Base closest to where you were recruited for OJE until right before your course.  This benefits PAT pers because they can actually do something other than make photocopies and it helps the Academy and Borden by not having to employ/house pers who aren't on course.
> 
> Further, as illustrated by the course dates posted earlier in the thread, we have also changed the scheduling of how we are running QL3s.  Instead of being spread throughout the year, the new Academy allows for "super courses" to be run to maximize training resources.  This means 2 x English and 1 x French QL3 are run concurrently with offsets in the training schedules.  The new academy has also resulted in the courses being shortened because everything is now in one building instead of spread all over Borden.



Thank you very much for your reply. That is good to know that there is a good chance i, and the other MPs in BMQ with me, will be on the upcoming QL3.

Do you know what sort of tasks I would be given while doing OJT?


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## garb811 (14 May 2017)

OttCap said:
			
		

> Do you know what sort of tasks I would be given while doing OJT?


I can't speak for everywhere but you'll most likely be put on shift as a ride along but you'll also get your 404s (Military Driver's Licence) and do a couple other minor things that are required to get you ready for your QL3.


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## EpicBeardedMan (15 May 2017)

garb811 said:
			
		

> There is a QL3 serial starting in late summer.  If you're at BMQ now, there are very, very good odds you, and any other MP with you, are on it.
> 
> MP have changed the way we handle Personnel Awaiting Training.  Once you're done your BMQ the odds are you will be sent to the Base closest to where you were recruited for OJE until right before your course.  This benefits PAT pers because they can actually do something other than make photocopies and it helps the Academy and Borden by not having to employ/house pers who aren't on course.
> 
> Further, as illustrated by the course dates posted earlier in the thread, we have also changed the scheduling of how we are running QL3s.  Instead of being spread throughout the year, the new Academy allows for "super courses" to be run to maximize training resources.  This means 2 x English and 1 x French QL3 are run concurrently with offsets in the training schedules.  The new academy has also resulted in the courses being shortened because everything is now in one building instead of spread all over Borden.



How does this work with returning members who have done their BMQ and BMQ-L? I'm currently in the process for MP and have my medical and interview this month. If I were to be accepted would they send me on OJE and would I get kit issued there? I know you probably don't have all the answers for me like a crystal ball, but anything at this point is super helpful.


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## garb811 (15 May 2017)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> How does this work with returning members who have done their BMQ and BMQ-L? I'm currently in the process for MP and have my medical and interview this month. If I were to be accepted would they send me on OJE and would I get kit issued there? I know you probably don't have all the answers for me like a crystal ball, but anything at this point is super helpful.


Yeah, as long as your BMQ and BMQ-L are current you'll be sent to the nearest Base with Reg Force MP.  You will get your initial issue of generic CAF kit, plus a loaner BR vest for wear during ride alongs and then stay on for OJE until just before the next QL3 started.  Once you get to Borden you will get your initial issue of OPD (Occupational Patrol Dress) and accoutrements.


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## RedcapCrusader (16 May 2017)

garb811 said:
			
		

> There is a QL3 serial starting in late summer.  If you're at BMQ now, there are very, very good odds you, and any other MP with you, are on it.
> 
> MP have changed the way we handle Personnel Awaiting Training.  Once you're done your BMQ the odds are you will be sent to the Base closest to where you were recruited for OJE until right before your course.  This benefits PAT pers because they can actually do something other than make photocopies and it helps the Academy and Borden by not having to employ/house pers who aren't on course.
> 
> Further, as illustrated by the course dates posted earlier in the thread, we have also changed the scheduling of how we are running QL3s.  Instead of being spread throughout the year, the new Academy allows for "super courses" to be run to maximize training resources.  This means 2 x English and 1 x French QL3 are run concurrently with offsets in the training schedules.  The new academy has also resulted in the courses being shortened because everything is now in one building instead of spread all over Borden.



I have my CT in, I'm not hoping for much, but maybe at least getting on the course until my offer comes in.

Otherwise I'm pretty much unemployed soon and the Reserves doesn't cut it for survivability.


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## garb811 (16 May 2017)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> I have my CT in, I'm not hoping for much, but maybe at least getting on the course until my offer comes in.
> 
> Otherwise I'm pretty much unemployed soon and the Reserves doesn't cut it for survivability.


Errr...sorry?  You're hoping to get on the Sept Reg F QL3 in Sept pending a CT?


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## RedcapCrusader (16 May 2017)

garb811 said:
			
		

> Errr...sorry?  You're hoping to get on the Sept Reg F QL3 in Sept pending a CT?



One can dream.

It's getting harder to support living currently... Cut back of hours, etc.


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## sarahsmom (17 May 2017)

With the cutbacks the military is constantly facing, I can't imagine  anyone getting a career course while they are pending their OT.
What happens if they decide you are not a good fit for MP, and you are halfway through the course? They let you finish and then you are qualified for a trade you are not allowed to do? or they pull you off and then it's still a colossal waste of money and time for everyone involved.

Side question... if you are OT'ing to MP, do you still have to pass MPAC before being officially approved? or because you are already serving you get to bypass that step?


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## EpicBeardedMan (17 May 2017)

paleomedic said:
			
		

> Side question... if you are OT'ing to MP, do you still have to pass MPAC before being officially approved? or because you are already serving you get to bypass that step?



there is no more MPAC, its been replaced with an interview.


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## RedcapCrusader (17 May 2017)

paleomedic said:
			
		

> With the cutbacks the military is constantly facing, I can't imagine  anyone getting a career course while they are pending their OT.
> What happens if they decide you are not a good fit for MP, and you are halfway through the course? They let you finish and then you are qualified for a trade you are not allowed to do? or they pull you off and then it's still a colossal waste of money and time for everyone involved.
> 
> Side question... if you are OT'ing to MP, do you still have to pass MPAC before being officially approved? or because you are already serving you get to bypass that step?



I'd be shocked if that were the case considering I'm a Provincial level law enforcement officer, I have a grandfathered Suitable finding on MPAC, and I'm an active, Res MP at OFP.

As I said, one can dream, I'm not hoping for much. I'm just at my wits end with my current employer.


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## garb811 (17 May 2017)

paleomedic said:
			
		

> Side question... if you are OT'ing to MP, do you still have to pass MPAC before being officially approved? or because you are already serving you get to bypass that step?


There is no way to "bypass" the MP specific steps, no matter what they are called.  The only thing a OT, CT or OT/CT does is open up another set of entry standards for what is considered suitable to apply for MP.  ie. You don't need a full Diploma in some cases, in others you don't even need any credits in a suitable program.


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## OttCap (21 May 2017)

garb811 said:
			
		

> ...Once you get to Borden you will get your initial issue of OPD (Occupational Patrol Dress) and accoutrements.



When I did MPAC last year, all the CFMPA students wore cadpad with the black armband, has this changed since then? Or are you issued OPD and don't wear it until graduation?


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## RedcapCrusader (21 May 2017)

OttCap said:
			
		

> When I did MPAC last year, all the CFMPA students wore cadpad with the black armband, has this changed since then? Or are you issued OPD and don't wear it until graduation?



There's this thing call Dress Of The Day, not every single day will be in OPD. There will be some days where you are doing certain training and they'll have you in CADPAT.


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## garb811 (22 May 2017)

OttCap said:
			
		

> When I did MPAC last year, all the CFMPA students wore cadpad with the black armband, has this changed since then? Or are you issued OPD and don't wear it until graduation?


In addition to what Lunchmeat stated, most of the course is spent in OPD and accoutrements as it is the most effective way of getting the students accustomed to wearing everything.  A big part of safety is being intimately familiar with where everything is on the duty belt and the Academy is the best place to do that given a blue gun in the holster etc etc.


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## EpicBeardedMan (25 May 2017)

garb811 said:
			
		

> In addition to what Lunchmeat stated, most of the course is spent in OPD and accoutrements as it is the most effective way of getting the students accustomed to wearing everything.  A big part of safety is being intimately familiar with where everything is on the duty belt and the Academy is the best place to do that given a blue gun in the holster etc etc.



Hey Garb, if I have previous service would I still get bumped to corporal when I accepted an offer for MP since I have completed basic (and bmq-l) already? I know MP's that go through basic get promoted on grad day, not sure how it works with those just reporting to base.


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## RedcapCrusader (25 May 2017)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Hey Garb, if I have previous service would I still get bumped to corporal when I accepted an offer for MP since I have completed basic (and bmq-l) already? I know MP's that go through basic get promoted on grad day, not sure how it works with those just reporting to base.



If you have been granted a Recruit School Bypass, you'll be promoted upon arrival in Borden either for course or PAT, whatever your offer states your report date will be.


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## EpicBeardedMan (25 May 2017)

LunchMeat said:
			
		

> If you have been granted a Recruit School Bypass, you'll be promoted upon arrival in Borden either for course or PAT, whatever your offer states your report date will be.



Cheers, thanks Lunchmeat.


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## RedcapCrusader (26 May 2017)

EpicBeardedMan said:
			
		

> Cheers, thanks Lunchmeat.



That said, your offer should have stated the effective date and pay rate. Ideally, it's just the badges and identifying items for Corporal you'll receive when you report, however your pay takes effect immediately (although you're on LWOP until your report date).


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## coyote489 (23 Dec 2017)

Ok so here is my situation.... I have recruit school bypass and am headed to Borden for the January 9th QL3. CFRC booked my flights for January 8th. Does this seem right? I have no kit or anything of course as I've been out for 5 years. I feel like I am being set up for all hell to break loose (major cluster****) when I arrive in Borden in the sense I'll be starting a course with nothing. Any help on this one? Suggestions as to what I should do? I don't expect any leniency of course so not sure what to do on this one... maybe just suck it up and go with it?


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## garb811 (23 Dec 2017)

There isn't really much you can do in this situation, the Academy should be aware of your situation prior to your arrival and they should have a plan in place to get you through the initial hoops.  Just take it step by step and it will all fall into place, although the first week is really going to suck.


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## OttCap (30 Dec 2017)

Were You not given joining instructions with your report date? In those joining instructions there should be contact information for the school.

 I would at the very least give them a heads up because what you’re describing is very unusual to not even have a uniform to wear. When you get there I’d suggest making friends real quick and borrowing someone’s spare uniform for a few days until they get you to the QM to get all your OPDs and duty items.


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## PuckChaser (30 Dec 2017)

You're headed to Borden for the 9th, but is your course starting that day? Likely it's not, and as Garb said the school will sort you out including all the paperwork and kitting. Travel in appropriate civilian attire and wear that until you have a uniform. Don't go borrowing kit, if they want you in CADPAT/OPDs that fast, they'll make arrangements with clothing stores.


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## coyote489 (30 Dec 2017)

So i leave Kelowna BC 8 Jan and the course starts 9 Jan. thats why i was kinda freaking out a bit. Im gonna feel like giant turd starting my career course in civy clothes.... but oh well not much i can do. I will be asking CFRC on the 2nd if they can change my flight to the 7th at least. so that way i can have a day to sort my self out. I won't be borrowing anyones kit either..... just seems weird to me. And no I was given joining instructions for CFLRS, where I am not going, another thing i will be requesting on the 2nd.


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## WEng87 (13 Feb 2018)

coyote489 said:
			
		

> So i leave Kelowna BC 8 Jan and the course starts 9 Jan. thats why i was kinda freaking out a bit. Im gonna feel like giant turd starting my career course in civy clothes.... but oh well not much i can do. I will be asking CFRC on the 2nd if they can change my flight to the 7th at least. so that way i can have a day to sort my self out. I won't be borrowing anyones kit either..... just seems weird to me. And no I was given joining instructions for CFLRS, where I am not going, another thing i will be requesting on the 2nd.



Hey Coyote,  How'd this all pan out for you in the end?


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## coyote489 (13 Feb 2018)

Well it made for an interesting story... there was 2 of us on this course that started off like me. He was able to conjur up a uniform before coming here though. I wasn't that lucky. First day the Sgt asked me, very sternly, where my uniform was.... I told him my situation and he said that I'm a first he's heard of in my situation. So it took 3 days to get the initial kit issue which wasn't too bad it was just awkward as all hell walking around the academy in civies with people staring at me with pure anger in their eyes and everyone asking me why I'm not in uniform. Then to top it all off it took a month to add me into HRMS which was turning into a nightmare cause of pay issues etc. Everything was settled by week 4 and I'm good to go now. Really enjoying the course so far.


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