# Origins of the new camo pattern?



## Xavier Basora (8 Mar 2002)

Hi all:
I posted this question earlier today but it seems to have been lost in cyberspace      
I asked this question at another form but no one had any clear answers. Perhaps here there might be.
1) Is the new temperate camo a derivative of the German Flecktarn or some WWII pattern like the polyspot summer?
2) Who came up with the bright idea of using a computer to distort digitally the patern? Is this a Canadian innovation or one that‘s been floating around NATO for years?
3) Did the army ever try out other temperate patterns or the one that‘s now called CADPAT was the only one? I‘m excluding the Canadian copy of the British DPM for the Airborne/SSF as it‘s not strict sensu a domestic pattern.
4)did canada copy the soviet PMK desert camo pattern?

Thanks!


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## Xavier Basora (8 Mar 2002)

Sorry. I,m not seeing this particular post. Must be some technical glitch   
xavier


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## bossi (11 Mar 2002)

Canadian Disruptive Pattern (CADPATTM) Uniform 

CLS BG-02.001 04 February, 2002  

The new Canadian Disruptive Pattern ( CADPATTM) uniform is rapidly becoming part of the Canadian Army‘s identity and puts Canadian soldiers well ahead of most allies in camouflage survivability. The CADPATTM uniform (pants and shirt) will be issued based on operational need in two distinct variations: Temperate Woodland (TW) and Arid Regions (AR). CADPATTM is a computer generated pattern incorporating sophisticated Near Infrared protection designed to conceal soldiers from image intensification devices (night vision). CADPATTM (TW) is comprised of four specific colours of light green, dark green, brown and black and was first introduced in 1997/98 on the helmet cover for the new helmet then coming into service. At the same time, the pattern was also introduced on a new Soldier‘s Individual Camouflage Net. 

Concurrent with the trials of CADPATTM (TW), work was carried out to identify a uniform for operations in desert, near desert, and savannah environmental conditions. This three-colour pattern, known as CADPATTM Arid Regions (AR), incorporates three different colours of brown. The CADPATTM design for Arid Regions has been approved and the transfer of this digital technology is ongoing to the textiles industry. Canadian industry will follow the general process that was undertaken with the Temperate Woodland pattern to select the appropriate inks and commence test production runs. Once DND has accepted the results then contracts will be put in place for garments for field soldiers.

Before being approved, all items undergo extensive field testing by soldiers. Specifically, these trials confirmed that the technologies involved had been effectively moved from the research and development laboratory to industry for mass production. It is important to note, however, that although extensive trials were conducted to determine the appropriate design and colour of CADPATTM, soldiers do not rely on CADPAT alone for their protection. All soldiers learn to use every means available to camouflage and conceal themselves in different environments.

DELIVERY TIMELINES:

CADPATTM (TW) has been issued to approximately 1/3 of Army soldiers as of Jan 02

Regular and Reserve Army units are expected to be fully converted to CADPAT TM (TW) by the end of 2002. A separate program has begun to convert the Army combat clothing outwear (Gortex TM jackets and pants), which will see first issues occurring in late 2002 / early 2003.

The CADPAT TM (TW) uniform was first worn in an operational theatre in September 2001 in Bosnia-Herzegovina on Operation Palladium Rotation 09 and all subsequent rotations to this theatre of operations will wear CADPATTM (TW).

In light of the deployment of the Immediate Reaction Force (Land) (IRF (L)) to Afghanistan, the CADPATTM (AR) project was expedited with the intent that it will be issued to soldiers in summer 2002. 
The patterns and technical data are patent and copyright protected. Also note that the Department of National Defence has acquired the trademark for CADPATTM. A number of Canadian companies have been successful in meeting the rigorous technical specifications for CADPATTM on specific textiles using both Canadian and overseas printing capabilities. The Department of National Defence closely controls CADPAT with all companies agreeing to non-disclosure stipulations for third parties and close control of swatches. 

The Army transition to the next generation of soldier operational clothing and equipment has been focussed on the "Clothe the Soldier Project." The Project, in existence since 1995 and in delivery of various items since 1997, will provide state-of-the-art headwear, handwear, underwear, footwear, and cold weather clothing. It will also provide new Personal Ballistic Protection items and a Load Carriage System. All of this clothing and equipment is designed to work as an overall compatible system to better protect our soldiers. Designed with leading-edge technology, the clothing will greatly enhance operational effectiveness and protect soldiers in all weather conditions. 

For more information on The Clothe the Soldier Project visit our website at  http://www.army.forces.ca/


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## bossi (11 Mar 2002)

(from the Maple Leaf, vol 4 no 4, 7 Feb 2001)
Note the NATO reference:

CADPAT conversion begins this spring

By Susan Turcotte

Distribution schedule

APR 01 — LFQA Reg Force and 430 Tac Hel Sqn 
AUG 01 — LFWA Reg Force, CFJOG and 408 Sqn 
OCT 01 — LFAA Reg Force and 403 Sqn 
DEC 01 — LFCA Reg Force and 427 Sqn 
MAR 02 — LFQA and LFAA Res Force 
AUG 02 — LFWA and LFCA Res Force 
NOV 02 — DCDS, DISO, CFNA, ADM(HR), ADM(Mat) and CLS

The Army’s conversion to the new Canadian Disruptive Pattern (CADPAT) combats gets underway in April. The entire Army will be wearing CADPAT combats by November 2002.

Each soldier will exchange three sets of the current combats for three sets of the new combats. Soldiers deploying on operations abroad will draw a fourth set.

The CADPAT camouflage pattern was developed using sophisticated computer pro-grams and was carefully tested in the field. “The introduction of CADPAT increases the soldiers survivability on the battlefield,” said Captain Peter Scott of DLR. “Compared to the current combats, the enemy has to get 35 per-cent closer to detect our soldiers.”

The U.S. Marine Corps is seriously consid-ering using the CADPAT design. A group of NATO soldiers who took part in a scientific study into the effectiveness of a variety of combat clothing in the tropics rated the CAD-PAT as the best overall.

Canadian soldiers may one day wear the arid-region CADPAT clothing. The Army will acquire two battlegroups’ worth of clothing and equipment, plus a sustainable stock, for future deployments to arid regions.

CADPAT combats will be available in 17 sizes, three more than the current combats. Shirt sizes will range from 6736 to 7652. Improvements to the shirt include larger chest pockets, conversion of the inside magazine pockets into a single pocket with a Velcro closure, removable name tags and Canadian flags, a single rank slip-on and a lowered drawstring. The pants will have elastic waist-bands and larger knee patches.


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## Xavier Basora (11 Mar 2002)

Bossi;
Thanks!
I have the Maple leaf issues.What‘s tough to find is the background and influences of the new camo pattern.
The Marines have already adopted their digitally distorted pattern last month and make it sound like they invented it   
xavier


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## Yard Ape (11 Mar 2002)




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## cagomez (12 Mar 2002)

Better late than never....or does that mean the same thing around here. Really admire the C8 with an iron sight!


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## Korus (12 Mar 2002)

The C8 is a nice looking weapon... 

Don‘t know how it holds up compared to the C7, though..

I read somewhere that the M4 has something like 90% of the accuracy and range of the M16.. is it similar for the C8 and C7 too?


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## Spr Earl (12 Mar 2002)

The C8 is not as good as the C7 due to the short barrel,as anyone know‘s who has fired it on the range. It‘s good for F.I.B.U.A. and a crew weapon and that‘s about all.

 Yes we Engineerr‘s use it,it‘s issued to Armoured crew‘s and heavy equipment operator‘s for self protection.


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## portcullisguy (13 Mar 2002)

> Originally posted by Korus:
> [qb]The C8 is a nice looking weapon...
> 
> Don‘t know how it holds up compared to the C7, though..
> ...


From a Law Enforcement perspective, the Colt M4 is highly sought after kit in the world of policing and especially with tactical units.  I mean, if the difference is only the last 10% of the range of an M16, then big deal.  In an urban environment, or at least with policing, the nasty business of shooting usually occurs at under 100m.

The M4 seems to be the choice of special operators, as well, at least with the Yanks.  The April issue of Soldier of Fortune sports a feature on some SF lads in Afghanistan sporting Helly/Hansen civvie gear and M4s.  Of course, it IS only SOF, and therefore it could be some backyard in Georgia, with a couple of local boys posed for piccies, and NOT Afghan.

I personally like the smaller, more portable and lighter profile of the weapon -- but then again I‘ve never fired one.  The last one my gun club had went for $2,200 which was out of my budget.


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## Korus (13 Mar 2002)

The civie versions the AR-10, right?


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## Jungle (13 Mar 2002)

Korus, you are going way back... The AR-10 was the first weapon of the now-called M-16 family. Developped in the late 50‘s by Eugene Stoner and made by ARMALITE, it was in 7.62mm, and I believe only the Sudan bought a small quantity. The AR-10 was the forerunner of the STONER weapons system. In 1959 COLT bought the licence and produced the AR-15 in 5.56mm. So any civvie versions of the M-16 are in fact AR-15‘s.


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## Korus (13 Mar 2002)

ahh.. ok..

A while back I saw a gun magazine (at walmart, no less), and on the cover they had what they called the AR-10, but it looked like an m4.. That‘s where my confusion came from...


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## BillP (13 Mar 2002)

Checking out the Diemaco website, for C8 info, and it does have 90% of the striking capability of the C7. Correct me if I‘m wrong, I heard somewhere that the CF will be converting some/all C8s to a flattop-heavy barrel variant, for durability/ & to house the launcher????


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## Recce41 (13 Mar 2002)

17 more sizes where you get that? There is less they start at 6726 and go to 7348, and go up is 4 size ie 7026-7030-7034. So if your a middle guy your screwed. 
 The Cadpat we had came out in 92 the SSF tested it. It was designed in Denmark and Canada. The Marines have a close type MarPat. The US Army will not get it for now, due to ours is patented. 
 Remember we lead the wayin hitech so why not. It does suck at times it the Winter it does not blend well. So if you want it take it. 
 Most here are Res. so to you its cool, for most of us Regs is blows. I still wear my old green ones, for you need more than 3 sets. Because we wear it everyday. 
 Sgt J.  CD,CDS com


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