# Renewal, reinvestment in Cadet, Junior Canadian Rangers (JCR) programs



## q_1966

Media Advisory - Announcement related to the Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers programs

MA - 13.104 - October 1, 2013

OTTAWA, Ont. – Mr. James Bezan, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence and Member of Parliament for Selkirk – Interlake, on behalf of the Honourable Rob Nicholson, Minister of National Defence, will make an announcement related to the Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers programs.

When: Wednesday, October 2, 2013

Time: 12:00 p.m.

Where:
Le Régiment de Hull
Salaberry Armoury
188 Alexandre-Taché Boulevard
Gatineau, Québec
J8Y 3L5

-30-

Notes to editor / news director: For more information, interested media are requested to contact Captain Kimberley Caron, Public Affairs Officer, at 613-992-6865, no later than 3:00 p.m. on October 1.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/news/article.page?doc=announcement-related-to-the-cadet-and-junior-canadian-rangers-programs/hm8ug9vu

News Release - Government of Canada takes action to strengthen the Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers Programs

OTTAWA – Mr. James Bezan, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence and Member of Parliament for Selkirk – Interlake, on behalf of the Honourable Rob Nicholson, Minister of National Defence, today announced a five-year renewal initiative to strengthen the Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers (JCR) Programs, reaffirming the Government’s commitment to these long running, world-class leadership development programs for young Canadians.

“"This Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers renewal plan emphasizes the Government of Canada’s continued commitment to these programs,"” said Mr. Bezan.  “"The focus will be on enhancing program delivery and reaching more youth in more communities across Canada."”

 “"The Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers Programs offer young Canadians a chance to experience a range of Canadian Armed Forces activities and aim to foster good citizenship in participants,"” said Minister Nicholson.  “"The programs are closely linked with community support and engagement. Over the next five years, National Defence will work to build on these community partnerships to involve more young Canadians."”

The five-year Cadet and JCR renewal plan will increase participation in the Cadet program to 70,000 Cadets and the JCR program to 153 patrols, from current levels of 52,890 Cadets and 135 JCR patrols. Through internal savings and reinvestment, resources at the community level will be increased to support growth of both programs, while at the same time reducing program overhead, administration and bureaucracy.

The Department of National Defence will work with its partners to renew and strengthen the governance, expand and enhance partnerships and the use of volunteers, and improve the engagement of youth and parents in governance of the programs.

“"I am extremely proud of our Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers Programs and their proven results,"” said General Tom Lawson, Chief of the Defence Staff. “"The work we are doing to renew the programs will ensure their sustainability and their continued delivery of highly challenging and educational programs to young Canadians for many years to come."”

The Cadet Program is a national program for young Canadians aged 12 to 18 who are interested in participating in a variety of challenging and rewarding youth-oriented activities while learning about the sea, land and air activities of the Canadian Armed Forces. Cadets learn valuable life and work skills such as teamwork, leadership, citizenship and personal fitness. They are encouraged to become active, responsible members of their communities.

The JCR Program offers young people in remote and isolated communities across Canada a unique opportunity to participate in a dynamic mix of challenging and rewarding youth-oriented activities that include learning important life skills, traditional skills and outdoor skills to promote traditional cultures and lifestyles.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/news/article.page?doc=government-of-canada-takes-action-to-strengthen-the-cadet-and-junior-canadian-rangers-programs/hma9uabs

*Link for backgrounder in message below
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/news/article.page?doc=renewal-of-the-cadet-and-junior-canadian-rangers-programs/hm8ugjim

- mod edit to better reflect content of announcement, thread -


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## myself.only

Backgrounder - Renewal of the Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers Programs

BG - 13.045 - October 2, 2013 

The Department of National Defence (DND) and the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) are renewing and reinvesting in the Cadet and Junior Canadian Rangers (JCR) Programs over the next five years. Our goal is to enhance program delivery, to increase awareness and participation in the programs and to enhance partnerships and volunteerism.

Background

The Cadet and JCR Programs are federally-sponsored leadership development programs delivered by DND/CAF for youth aged 12 to 18 years. These dynamic community-based programs have contributed to the personal growth and development of Canadian youth since the early 1900s. The Cadet program currently serves 52,890 Cadets in 700 communities across Canada.

The Cadet Program consists of the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets, Royal Canadian Army Cadets and Royal Canadian Air Cadets. The aim of the Cadet Program is to develop the attributes of good citizenship and leadership, to promote physical fitness, and to stimulate the interest of youth in the sea, land and air activities of the CAF. Cadets participate in a dynamic range of challenging and rewarding activities at the community level during the regular school year, and many have the opportunity to participate in advanced activities at 23 regional and national Cadet Summer Training Centres each summer.

The Cadet Program is delivered primarily under the direct supervision of officers and non-commissioned members of the Cadet Organizations Administration and Training Service. It is supported by Reserve and Regular Force personnel at five Regional Cadet Support Units and one national headquarters. The program is delivered in partnership with the Navy League of Canada, Army Cadet League of Canada and Air Cadet League of Canada, and with the support of many other community-based organizations.

The aim of the JCR Program is to promote traditional cultures and lifestyles in remote and isolated communities through a structured youth program that includes teaching life, traditional and ranger skills. Junior Canadian Rangers participate in a dynamic mix of challenging and rewarding activities at the community level during the regular school year and many have the opportunity to participate in Enhanced Training Sessions regionally each summer.

The JCR Program is delivered primarily under the direct supervision of Canadian Rangers who are aided by a volunteer Adult Committee and supported by Reserve and Regular Force personnel at five Canadian Ranger Patrol Groups and one national headquarters. The JCR Program currently serves more than 4,000 youth in 135 communities, many of them in isolated and remote locations.

Renewal Initiative

The impetus for Cadet and JCR Programs Renewal is rooted in the programs’ natural cycle of continuous improvement, as well as the Government of Canada’s ongoing objectives to ensure best overall value-for-dollar principles and to invest in Canadians. At its peak, this renewal process will see the Defence Team realign and structure itself to enhance the delivery of an optimal, relevant, effective and efficient community-based and summer Cadet and JCR Programs.

Renewal presents an opportunity to better solidify what is working well, while enhancing the programs by addressing areas for improvement including: increased focus and resources to ensure a strong community level program delivered at corps, squadrons and patrols; reducing bureaucracy and streamlining administration across the organization; optimizing the balance between local and summer (advanced) training opportunities for Cadets and JCRs; optimizing governance, command and control, and support structures; and expanding volunteer networks.

Renewal also presents an opportunity to increase participation in both programs so that more young Canadians, their families and communities, can benefit from the challenging and rewarding personal growth and development opportunities the programs have to offer. Efforts under renewal will position the JCR Program to grow by 18 patrols to 153 patrols (13 percent increase) and the Cadet Program to grow by 17,000 Cadets (32 percent increase) from its current population of 52,890. To that end, DND/CAF will raise the programs’ visibility and garner greater support among community and organization leaders through increased outreach, communication and partnerships. Our plan includes better use of traditional and social media to market and advertise the programs to youth participants and their parents.

National Defence will work with its volunteers and partners in the Cadet Leagues to renew and strengthen program governance, expand and enhance partnerships, and improve the engagement of youth and parents in governance of the programs.

Today, renewal seeks to better harmonize and streamline the administration and support to corps, squadrons and patrols from regional and national headquarters. The introduction of a new overarching set of key program principles provides the foundation to govern programming decisions and actions throughout the renewal process. The five key program principles are: invite all Canadian youth; instil Canadian military values; develop citizenship, leadership and fitness; balance safety and challenge; and leave a positive lifelong impact. These key program principles are amplified in the Cadet and JCR Renewal Plan.

Conclusion

Renewal of and reinvestment in the Cadet and JCR Programs will lead to more optimal, relevant, effective and efficient programs that are more appealing, challenging and rewarding to Cadets and JCRs. Changes in the renewal process will also improve support to the programs, reduce overhead and administration and facilitate delivery by leaders, volunteers and sponsors at the community level. Renewal of the Cadet and JCR Programs also contributes to the ongoing efforts to improve Government of Canada programs and services to Canadians.

The heart of the Cadet and JCR Programs has always been the local community and renewal efforts will ensure we have the best possible foundation and support at the local level to allow us to reach and engage more young Canadians.


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## The Bread Guy

Wonder how long it'll take "the usual suspects" to pounce on the bit in yellow .....





			
				myself.only said:
			
		

> .... The five key program principles are: invite all Canadian youth; *instil Canadian military values*; develop citizenship, leadership and fitness; balance safety and challenge; and leave a positive lifelong impact. These key program principles are amplified in the Cadet and JCR Renewal Plan ....


I'll start the clock running now to see how long it'll be before we see "Cadets" and "child soldiers" in the same article  :


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## myself.only

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Wonder how long it'll take "the usual suspects" to pounce on the bit in yellow .....I'll start the clock running now to see how long it'll be before we see "Cadets" and "child soldiers" in the same article  :



too many lawyers, not enough leaders  :facepalm:


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## dimsum

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Wonder how long it'll take "the usual suspects" to pounce on the bit in yellow .....I'll start the clock running now to see how long it'll be before we see "Cadets" and "child soldiers" in the same article  :



I'm pretty sure the usual suspects already make that ridiculous argument.


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## Pusser

Notwithstanding the usual crap about cadets being child soldiers (which they are not and never have been), I'm hoping that this endeavour will actually infuse a little of the military back into the cadet movement.  I have to say that my observations of cadets in the last few years have been less than favourable in that they seemed to have removed a lot of the "cool" military stuff out of the program and become more like the Scouting movement.  Now there is nothing wrong with Scouting, but it should be a different experience in my view.  One of the reasons I joined cadets many (many) years ago was that I had become disgusted with the lack of discipline in the Scouting movement (at least in my troop where being a patrol leader seemed to mean I did all the work).  Cadets offered me so much more of what I wanted and a chance to do some really cool things.  Unfortunately, my son's experience with cadets, although good for him and he's enjoyed it, has not been the same.  I feel sorry for him in that he hasn't been able to do the same things I did (e.g. fire the service rifle - he's been pretty much restricted to air rifles).


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## myself.only

Pusser said:
			
		

> I have to say that my observations of cadets in the last few years have been less than favourable in that they seemed to have removed a lot of the "cool" military stuff out of the program and become more like the Scouting movement.



WRT to your observations, the cadet program has seen a (potential) increase in military familiarization with the introduction of a mandatory PO dedicated to the subject, which is essentially bringing back content updated from the 1970s / pre-handbook program such as organization and roles of the CAF.  And hopefully, more cadets are getting veterans in as speakers and using the funding now available to tour CAF facilities. 

However, in program terms the shift of axis is undeniable.  For example, I find it quite telling that the bulk of reference material used in the new program is civilian even when non-restricted pubs are available. 
While the emphasis on adventure trg would create a demand for COTS content supporting hard skills like canoeing, mountainbiking and rockclimbing, we see a lot of interpersonal / soft skill content has deliberately been drawn from civilian sources.
For instance, cadets have three principles of leadership and none of them are drawn from the CAF material. Task procedure has gone. We no longer speak of NCOs, that term has been replaced by team leader in lectures. The list goes on.

Now, I did originally have a lengthier post drafted, however, in light of the forum's restrictions on what is acceptable to express here, I will just let readers decide if the de-selection of CAF material is good or bad and try to leave my opinions out of it. Make of that what you will.


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## The Bread Guy

Dimsum said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure the usual suspects already make that ridiculous argument.


True - I should say "again".

It will also be interesting to see exactly what the implementation of this bit of the news release will look like:


			
				Get Nautical said:
			
		

> .... Through internal savings and reinvestment, resources at the community level will be increased to support growth of both programs, while at the same time reducing program overhead, administration and bureaucracy.  The Department of National Defence will work with its partners to renew and strengthen the governance, expand and enhance partnerships and the use of volunteers, and improve the engagement of youth and parents in governance of the programs ....


What'll be cut?  What'll be grown?  Looking forward to hearing more.


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## GreenMarine

myself.only said:
			
		

> too many lawyers, not enough leaders  :facepalm:



To quote my God father on the Child soldier part that this is refering to, "Bleeding Heart Hippie's look down at providing basic military knowledge to our youth the when their own blood is on the ground they wonder where's the Army to protect us."

Ok so he's an aged veteran that gets into himself but in short his words have value that is doesn't hurt to provide the basic's to our youth.

If there not going to learn it right, they'll learn it throught Hollywood and Video Games.

Canada may not use conscription at this point, change the world for the worst, I'll rather serve with troops that can follow simple orders then just think that war is a game and trigger happy is ok.  :akimbo:

 :2c:


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## myself.only

GreenMarine said:
			
		

> Canada may not use conscription at this point, change the world for the worst, I'll rather serve with troops that can follow simple orders then just think that war is a game and trigger happy is ok.  :akimbo:



Well....:stirpot: I will concede that in the event of a zombie apocalypse  air cadets with their combination of baby-step quick march + large brains do promise to be an asset for my survival.
 ;D


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## gwp

The aim of the Cadet Organizations remains unchanged. 

"To instill in youth the attributes of good citizenship, leadership, promote physical fitness and stimulate an interest in the sea, land and air activities of the Canadian Forces."

When you look at that "mission" it is something that every citizen should hoist in.  Fulfill your duty as a citizen (vote, obey the law, do jury duty when required), take leadership roles in the community,  take care of your health (as one is able) - protects our health care system; and take an interest in what our sailors, soldiers and air men and women are doing around the world at the direction of government. 

The announcement is a good thing particularly the phrase about the government's commitment to the program in the opening line.


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## The Bread Guy

gwp said:
			
		

> The aim of the Cadet Organizations remains unchanged.


For now, until this comes officially becomes the new "key program principles" ....


> .... The introduction of a new overarching set of key program principles provides the foundation to govern programming decisions and actions throughout the renewal process. The five key program principles are: invite all Canadian youth; instil Canadian military values; develop citizenship, leadership and fitness; balance safety and challenge; and leave a positive lifelong impact ....


.... although there's some stuff to nitpick in the wording if one wants to pick fly poop out of ground pepper.


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## myself.only

Well, I'm a little troubled by the absence of promoting an interest in the activities of the CAF... but, the five principles seem to be a huge step in the right direction with the inclusion of instilling Canadian Military Values.  Mind you, I believe that that particular objective is not new and has just been a largely unspoken truth, the elephant in the room, especially with the Army Cadet program.  IMHO, while the program may do great, worthy things for many young people, that objective is the only thing that legitimizes the CAF being involved in it at all.  Just my :2c:


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## gwp

The aim of the Cadet Organization has changed little in the past half century or more

QR and O Army Cadets 1956 states the aim of Royal Canadian Army Cadets as:

To provide the youth of Canada with a sound knowledge of "military fundamentals" based on leadership, patriotism, and good citizenship and founding on the premise that "the first duty of a free citizen is to be prepared to defend his country. 

In 1962 faced with declined enrollment as the result of societal changes and anti-war sentiment the aim of Army Cadets was revised by QR&O Amendment List #5 Feb. 1, 1962:

The aim of the Army Cadet Organization is to provide army cadets with a sound knowledge of military fundamentals based on the qualities of leadership, patriotism and good citizenship.

The 1995 Chief Review Services Report on the Cadet Program reports: In 1966, at the time of a Deputy Chief Reserves study on the RC Sea Army Air Cadets, the three cadet organizations each had a different aim as follows:

Sea Cadets: To give Sea Cadets training in seamanship and other associated subjects; such other training as will develop in them patriotism and other qualities of good citizenship; and to help Sea Cadets who wish to make the sea their career, achieve that ambition.

Air Cadets: To encourage Air Cadets to develop attributes of good citizenship; to stimulate in Air Cadets an itnerest in aviation and space technology; and to help Air Cadets develop a high standard of physical fitness, mental alertness and discipline.  

Army Cadets: As noted from 1962.

The 1966 study recommended standardization of the cadet training program, and a single aim for all three cadet organizations as follows:

To develop in cadets qualities of good citizenship, leadership and patriotism; to promote their interest in the sea, land or air environments as appropriate; and to develop in them a high standard of physical fitness, mental alertness and discipline through service training.  

Between 1966 and unification, the need for a combined aim for a single cadet movement was accepted, and the aim statement evolved into its current form as stated in QR (Cadets) 2.03

To develop in youth the attributes of good citizenship and leadership promote physical fitness; and stimulate the interest of youth in the sea, land, and air activities of the CF.

In addition to the combined aim of the CCO, the Sea Cadets and the Air Cadets developed supplemental aims:

Help sea cadets who wish to make the sea their career achieve that ambition

To promote continuing education, encourage among young people a practical interest in aeronautics and assist those intending to pursue a career in the field of aviation. 

In all cases the statement is described as a single aim.  (Colloquially,  in order to save time and space and/or to be elementally parochial, various unofficial versions appear) 

So today we have the (50ish year old) unified aim that has been re-examined and interpreted in a supporting CATO.  

External interest in the cadet program has waxed and waned.  In recent years there is some evidence of declining enrollment/interest perhaps driven by a misunderstanding of the program at a time where there is public anti-war commentary.    

The principals described in the new release suggest little that would revise aim of the program.


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## myself.only

gwp said:
			
		

> In recent years there is some evidence of declining enrollment/interest perhaps driven by a misunderstanding of the program at a time where there is public anti-war commentary.



Or maybe that Ipsos-Reid poll back in 2006 was correct, predicting that distancing the program from its CAF affiliations was undesirable as that's what attracted / retained many cadets.


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## The Bread Guy

Thanks, GWP, for sharing a bit of back-story there on what the aims used to be compared to today.  VERY interesting to compare/contrast as it evolves.



			
				myself.only said:
			
		

> Well, I'm a little troubled by the absence of promoting an interest in the activities of the CAF... but, the five principles seem to be a huge step in the right direction with the inclusion of instilling Canadian Military Values.


At one level, I think it would be hard to instill the values of any organization without exposing someone to that organization, and I'm sure exposing someone to an organization would promote interest in said organization.  It appears some level of CAF participation will continue even if it looks like the government is looking for more "partners" to help share the load.


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## myself.only

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> At one level, I think it would be hard to instill the values of any organization without exposing someone to that organization, and I'm sure exposing someone to an organization would promote interest in said organization.  It appears some level of CAF participation will continue even if it looks like the government is looking for more "partners" to help share the load.



Agreed.  Heck, I'm hoping the "instil values" is implemented something like an upgrade from "stimulate interest". 

Well I guess it all comes down to:
(a) the mechanisms / methodologies used to instil the values. The Core Military Values of Duty, Loyalty, Integrity and Courage give considerable leeway after all on how they're delivered and how they're measured; and
(b) the availability of the resources to ensure delivery to all cadets, not just a select few or only at summer training centres.... Bearing in mind, you can give me a rack of C7s with an eager RSO, endless ammo and range time... but that only guarantees an awesome shooting team not an organization that develops those Core Military Values.


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## The Bread Guy

myself.only said:
			
		

> .... (b) the availability of the resources to ensure delivery to all cadets, not just a select few or only at summer training centres.... Bearing in mind, you can give me a rack of C7s with an eager RSO, endless ammo and range time... but that only guarantees an awesome shooting team not an organization that develops those Core Military Values.


With the other side of that coin being that you can teach/instill integrity, loyalty, courage, stewardship and excellence without necessarily using _just_ military means.


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## myself.only

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> ...without necessarily using _just_ military means.



And that, my good sir, is what I'm afraid of.


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## Edward Campbell

Reports are surfacing, today, in the media, about an internal DND audit that has found costs for the cadet program have jumped by 40 per cent over the last 20 years while numbers of participants have dropped by 15 per cent. The JCR programme, on the other hand, was given high marks, by the auditor, who noted that JCR provided a structured youth program in communities that often have few such programs and a growing number of young people.

“There is evidence of need for the JCR Program and less evidence of continued need for the Cadet Program,” the report said.

There are 50,000+ young people in cadets and 3,500 in JCR.

One cannot help but wonder if there are not many thousands of young people in urban centres who lack structured programmes and who might benefit from something like JCR, something which might be offered using resources taken away from the 50,000 middle class, suburban kids in cadet uniforms today.

Note: I know nothing about cadets; nothing about who they are, where they are or what they do; but I can read audit reports and draw conclusions ~ so can government ministers who know as little as I and care even less.


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## SeaKingTacco

I was an air cadet. It led me to consider a (now) 29 year career in time CF.

My observation of the current cadet movement?  It has been hijacked by a profession cadre of COATS officers who now get paid millions to do (poorly) what used to be done for free by the cadets themselves.

Either get the focus back on the kids, or put the program out of its misery and kill it.


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## jpjohnsn

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Reports are surfacing, today, in the media, about an internal DND audit that has found costs for the cadet program have jumped by 40 per cent over the last 20 years while numbers of participants have dropped by 15 per cent. The JCR programme, on the other hand, was given high marks, by the auditor, who noted that JCR provided a structured youth program in communities that often have few such programs and a growing number of young people.
> 
> “There is evidence of need for the JCR Program and less evidence of continued need for the Cadet Program,” the report said.
> 
> There are 50,000+ young people in cadets and 3,500 in JCR.
> 
> One cannot help but wonder if there are not many thousands of young people in urban centres who lack structured programmes and who might benefit from something like JCR, something which might be offered using resources taken away from the 50,000 middle class, suburban kids in cadet uniforms today.
> 
> Note: I know nothing about cadets; nothing about who they are, where they are or what they do; but I can read audit reports and draw conclusions ~ so can government ministers who know as little as I and care even less.


One of the major points the study doesn't mention is that the way of accounting for costs incurred by the CCO changed during that period.  Many goods and services that were rendered by the CF buckshee to the cadet program but were accounted as part of overall defence spending were suddenly split off and charged against the CCO specifically.   One example of this is logistical support for field training exercises.  We might get the local militia unit volunteering to provide vehicles and drivers, we'd draw hayboxes of rations from a mess that knew we were coming but did not account for specific numbers, etc with costs either not charged to the cadet account or, at least, done at a flat rate.  Now, as with the rest of DND, every single line item is charged for against the CCO budget.  As someone who was in the system on both sides of that accounting change, the funds reported as being spent jumped DRASTICALLY.  

One of the things I do take a bit of an exception to is some comments I've seen about the "professional COATS cadre".  On reason that exists is the continual budget cutting since the 80s caused the CF to withdraw a lot of their direct Reg and PRes support (administrative, logistical and, especially, affiliated unit), caused a vacuum that had to be filled.  The people at DCadets aren't taking the military out of the cadet program, the military did that, by necessity caused by the budget cuts, themselves.

Why don't air cadets get to fire the C7s now when I used to spend weekends firing the FN as a cadet?  Cadet regs allow us to but CIC members can't get trained to train them or run a range, so we rely on Reg or PRes units to volunteer to train them, run a range AND provide the ammo out of their own allotment.  Who's going to do that?  So, now they do almost all marksmanship training using air rifles. 

It's the same right down the line.  It's not that we're avoiding military training, we can't get the access anymore so the alternative is, much to my disgust, going with the readily available civilian version.   

During the time I was an air cadet, I got famil flights in a Chinook (before BM the PM sold them), learned to taxi a Tutor, fired several kinds of CF small arms, took many cool tours of CF facilities and got to handle a lot of equipment, and on and on.  Though I try my hardest to give my cadets as many of those kinds of opportunities as I can, most of those opportunities will never be available to them again.


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## Stoker

I guess we have to ask ourselves what do we get of of Cadets? I would say many Cadets go on to the Reserves and even the Regular Forces, not to mention it keeps the many thousands kids off the street. I say there needs to be a major overhaul and reorganization to cut waste. There are many full time positions that people have been in for years. I know of one CPO1 res who took his rank down and is employed as a PO1 with the sea cadet headquarters in St.John's for at least 20 years.


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## SeaKingTacco

Jp-

Fair comment- the CF has cut support to the Cadet program- support that is now bring filled by COATs personnel, many on Class B service.

On the other hand, I have watched the Cadet Bureaucracy explode over the past 20 years- none of it to the seeming benefit of Cadet programming.  Where Cadets themselves used to be trusted and expected to run things and instruct I often see a cloud of COATS officers doing those things instead.

Maybe my sample size of cadet units is too small; maybe we just live in a new era where no one wants to take the risk of Cadet making a mistake. Maybe the cadet movement has jumped the shark and cannot be fixed.  I don't know.


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## jpjohnsn

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Jp-
> 
> Fair comment- the CF has cut support to the Cadet program- support that is now bring filled by COATs personnel, many on Class B service.
> 
> On the other hand, I have watched the Cadet Bureaucracy explode over the past 20 years- none of it to the seeming benefit of Cadet programming.  Where Cadets themselves used to be trusted and expected to run things and instruct I often see a cloud of COATS officers doing those things instead.
> 
> Maybe my sample size of cadet units is too small; maybe we just live in a new era where no one wants to take the risk of Cadet making a mistake. Maybe the cadet movement has jumped the shark and cannot be fixed.  I don't know.


The cadet programme is now designed to have the senior cadets do pretty much all the instruction at the local corps/sqn level and the phase 5 cadets receive specific training on activity planning and execution.  If that's not what you've seen, someone isn't implementing the training program correctly.


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## brihard

My recent career change and geographical move has seen me dragged up to the far corner of the country, with a RegF CF presence of 3, some rangers, and an army and air cadet corps. I'm now looking at a transfer to COATS- I get to keep trade, rank, and regiment, and stay in green for five years in which I would otherwise likely have been forced to release to SuppRes. I've already been surprised by how eagerly the corps here has latched on to having an NCO working with them. I'm wondering (perhaps somewhat arrogantly) if the uniformed leadership that is COATS would be served by cutting down on the 19 year old 2Lts and trying to bring more NCOs on board and offering the chance to teach the cadet NCOs how to grow into their role? I'm not slagging CIC officers here- I'm honestly not. But the approach the cadets take to leadership is essentially more derived from the NCO corps. I've found that being an NCO myself lets me deal with the cadet NCOs in a subtly different way than the officers-scrap the heels together stuff that governs their relationship with the officers, and act more as a mentor than anything else. They seem to like it. I can't help but think that an increased emphasis on getting the *right* NCOs to work with the kids might pay disproportionate dividends... Perhaps that's hubristic on my part, but I still distinctly recall the Sgt and PO2 who worked with my corps when I was a kid.


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## SeaKingTacco

Brihard-

As usual, I think you are on to something. My most vivid memories at summer camp were of the Reg Force MCpls and Sgts that sometimes taught us. Those memories are uniformly positive, as they approached their roles with humour, confidence and competence

Of the CIC officers, I have very few memories.  At later camps ( like glider), I was impressed by their flying instructional abilities, but that was about it.


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## Infanteer

I agree with both of you - who is likely to be more useful in instructing cadets on military things - NCOs with a decade of military experience or managers (COATS) with very little actual military training.

I understand that COATS expansion is to fill the void left behind by reduced CAF support, so you make due with what you have.  And you can't expect/hope for a COATS officer with previous Reg Force or PRes experience.


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## q_1966

Isn't COAT's just a little more official way of doing what was done before, on a bigger scale. Retired CWO & MWO's living there retirement, nobly I might add; on Dieppe & Sicily parade square at Vernon Army Cadet Camp & sometimes as CO's of Cadet Corp's as well.

Edit: Retired or close to retirement.


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## Northalbertan

I am currently the CO of a small rural corps in Alberta.   I am fortunate to hav. A COATS Sgt on my slate.  Not only does he bring his 20+ years of experience with the CF (RCR) to our corps the Region's RCIS has been smart enough to utilize his skills as well.

For the first 4 years of my tenure as CO the three uniformed members on the slate were all former service.  It makes a difference in how the cadets perceive their adult staff.  I think it makes a difference in how the cadets are treated as well, and they respond positively to their treatment as well.  To cut to the chase the interactions and dynamics of how the cadets and the Sgt interact is way different (in a good way) from how they interact with the officers.  They pay closer attention to what he says, and he is a superb instructor and leader.

In short I agree for the most part with the above statements.  I would love to see more COATS NCMs at all levels of the CCO.  We should be running cadets like the rest of the CF.  COATS is a great idea, if implemented properly.


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## q_1966

I think though that you shouldn't remove the ability to recruit Junior CIC Officers, yes some think it's a continuation of when they were in Cadets/High School to still be chums with but how would they learn from the experienced COATS NCM's (Senior NCO's to experienced Cpl's especially) how to do things properly, not everyone is able to join the Military (Reg or Reserve) from medical reasons to personal ones.


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## Edward Campbell

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Reports are surfacing, today, in the media, about an internal DND audit that has found costs for the cadet program have jumped by 40 per cent over the last 20 years while numbers of participants have dropped by 15 per cent. The JCR programme, on the other hand, was given high marks, by the auditor, who noted that JCR provided a structured youth program in communities that often have few such programs and a growing number of young people.
> 
> “There is evidence of need for the JCR Program and less evidence of continued need for the Cadet Program,” the report said.
> 
> There are 50,000+ young people in cadets and 3,500 in JCR.
> 
> One cannot help but wonder if there are not many thousands of young people in urban centres who lack structured programmes and who might benefit from something like JCR, something which might be offered using resources taken away from the 50,000 middle class, suburban kids in cadet uniforms today.
> 
> Note: I know nothing about cadets; nothing about who they are, where they are or what they do; but I can read audit reports and draw conclusions ~ so can government ministers who know as little as I and care even less.




And now there is a report, in today's Ottawa Citizen, that Chief of Reserves and Cadets (RAdm Bennett) plans to cut the 806 full-time cadets and junior rangers staff by about 400 over a five-year period.


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## The Bread Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> And now there is a report, in today's Ottawa Citizen, that Chief of Reserves and Cadets (RAdm Bennett) plans to cut the 806 full-time cadets and junior rangers staff by about 400 over a five-year period.


Indeed ....


> Canada's military cadet program hopes to cut its fulltime administrative staff by half and redirect the savings into more programs for youth, says the organization's top officer.
> 
> Rear Admiral Jennifer Bennett said she hopes to cut the 806 full-time staff by about 400 over a five-year period. The move is part of a larger overhaul of the program that involves youths aged 12 to 18 who participate in various activities while learning about the Canadian Forces. There are almost 53,000 cadets in units across the country.
> 
> "I need to renew," said Bennett, chief of reserves and cadets. "I need to update. I need to refresh." The proposed reductions in administration also come after a recent National Defence audit raised concerns the cadet program had grown bloated with managers whose salaries eat up much of the budget that is supposed to be used to support youth ....


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