# Militants threaten to behead South Korean hostage



## Pieman (20 Jun 2004)

Militants threaten to behead South Korean hostage
They set 24-hour deadline for Seoul to pull soldiers from Iraq
Sunday, June 20, 2004 Posted: 2310 GMT (0710 HKT) 

 On the videotape the man cried in English, "Please get out of here. I don't want to die. ... Your life is important, but my life is important."

The South Korean Foreign Ministry in Seoul confirmed that the man shown in the videotape is Kim Sun-il, 33, who works for a trading company. It was not known when or how he was taken hostage.

The Foreign Ministry planned an emergency meeting Monday morning to discuss Seoul's reaction to the development and steps to take toward Kim's release.

An official with the South Korean Embassy in Washington said South Korea has about 600 troops in the country and plans to send another 3,000.

The deployment will make South Korea the third-largest contributor to coalition forces, after the United States and Britain. (Full story)

The video showed Kim seated in front of three men whose faces are covered with scarves.

Two of the men held rifles; the third delivered an ultimatum to South Korea's government.

"We ask the government of South Korea and the people of Korea to pull their forces out of Iraq and not to send additional forces," the man said.

"Otherwise, we will send this hostage's head back to them and, God willing, we will kill more of your troops in Iraq. And you have 24 hours, starting tonight."

In Baghdad, South Korea's ambassador to Iraq said he was aware of the tape and had no comment.

Al-Jazeera's editor in chief, Ahmed al-Sheikh, said the tape was left Sunday at the network's office in Baghdad and that he verified it was authentic before broadcasting segments of it. He did not broadcast the entire tape because some of it was repetitious, he said.


(CNN) -- The Arabic-language television network Al-Jazeera broadcast a videotape Sunday night of a man identified as a 
South Korean hostage whose captors threatened to behead him unless his government quits the U.S.-led coalition occupying Iraq.
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http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/20/iraq.hostage/index.html


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## Jarnhamar (21 Jun 2004)

Holy hell, these guys are serious. 

Well obviously they want us out and they are not going to change their minds so maybe we should pull all our troops out. You know, let them run the place. 

Once were out of their country and they run the show (sending weapons to any nutbar who will buy em)  they can start kidnaping our citizens from austrailia, germany, japan, wherever, and start the show over again.
"Were going to kill this american/canadian/british citizen if you don't send us a billion dollars".  "Were going to kill this group of hostages unless you infidels all kill youreselves"  "Were going to kill everyone we can until you guys let elvis out of prison, blow up every mcdonalds int he world and leave batboy alone"

The minute a country caves in and shows these murderers they can get what they want by threatening violence we'll see a trend of it start up.

Wait a minute, a country already did that.


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## jswift872 (21 Jun 2004)

Spain correct? anyway i agree 100% with you, we (free countries of the world) must never give in to these terrorists threats, actions, fight to the last drop of blood if we must, because the world without a free society is a society on the brink of Apocalypse


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## NavyGrunt (21 Jun 2004)

I'm still surprised at Spain. No self respecting country would give in..... be angry, feel remorseful.....never give in. Let them kill him...no MURDER him. Then let your soldiers loose. Show no mercy for these filthy animals. And when you do keep that mans words in your head and on the tip of your tongue. Show them we won't be pushed or swayed from helping those who want help.


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## 1feral1 (21 Jun 2004)

Spain  gave in, and has it changed anything for them? They are still as big as target as theywere before they left iraq, and the terrs are still within their borders waiting for the next weak moment.

Sad but true.

Wes


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## Pieman (21 Jun 2004)

Good to hear the Koreans will not bow down to terrorist.

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South Korea says it will send troops to Iraq despite the abduction of citizen 
03:45 AM EDT Jun 21 
  
A man identified as South Korean Kim Sun-il, front, sits in front of his captors in this image taken from an undated but recent video obtained by Al-Jazeera television station Sunday. (AP/Al-Jazeera via APTN)  
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - South Korea's deputy foreign minister said Monday that Seoul will not change its plan to send 3,000 soldiers to Iraq despite the recent kidnapping of a South Korean man there. 

Choi Young-jin made the announcement after government officials held an emergency meeting to discuss the abduction that tested South Korea's resolve just days after it announced plans to send 3,000 troops to assist the U.S.-led coalition. 

"There is no change in the government's spirit and position that it will send troops to Iraq to help establish peace and rebuild Iraq," Choi said at a news conference. 

The Arab satellite TV network Al-Jazeera aired a videotape Sunday purportedly from al-Qaida-linked militants showing a South Korean hostage begging for his life and pleading with his government to withdraw troops already in Iraq. 

The kidnappers, who identified themselves as belonging to a group led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, gave South Korea 24 hours to meet its demand that Korean troops stay out of Iraq or "we will send you the head of this Korean." 

South Korean media identified the hostage as Kim Sun-il, 33, an employee of South Korea's Gana General Trading, Co., a supplier for the U.S. military. 

South Korea warned its people Saturday not to travel to Iraq, saying its decision to send troops there might prompt terror attacks on South Koreans. 

Seoul said Friday it will send 3,000 soldiers to the Irbil area in northern Iraq beginning in August. Some 600 South Korean military medics and engineers currently in the southern city of Nasiriyah will redeploy to Irbil. 

Once the deployment is complete, South Korea will be the largest U.S. partner in the coalition after Britain. 
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http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/040620/w062062.html


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## casing (21 Jun 2004)

Spain should grab some brass ones and send troops back to Iraq.  As Wes indicated, the pull accomplished nothing but diminishing their stature among the international community.  The free nations of the world must not capitulate to these terrorist tactics.  It'll only provide them with more confidence.

I also really love how these terrorist cowards always hide their identities.


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## Gunnar (21 Jun 2004)

What they need to do is respond along these lines:

"In response to the idiotic request by a bunch of thugs who claim to represent Islam, the Government of Korea has no choice but to triple their troop presence in the region.  Forces will be made up of Korean Black Ops Specialists, who will be working to execute terrorists.  This initiative has the full support of the American and Saudi governments".

Every time they hold a hostage, send a multiple of troops.  Make such actions obviously counter-productive.

Never refer to them as "terrorists" but instead use terms like "sub-human slimebags who make war on non-combatants".  Add a point or two about how they've broken with the principles of Islam while you're at it.  Propaganda?  Yes, but war involves propaganda, and they've declared war.

"Today, in breach of the rules of Islam which require that good Muslims not make war on women and children, a sub-human slimebag terrorist blew up a bus, killing a number of innocents.  Since this event has no political significance, and because such people are obviously too stupid to understand that they aren't making any progress, the Israeli government is planning to track them down and kill them.  But, this is all they deserve.  Ted? "

"Thanks Marsha.  They obviously haven't learned that nobody cares.  In other news, the pound was up 4.2 points today...."

Just treat them with the contempt they have earned, and make sure that anyone who would sympathise has reasons to feel the same contempt.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Jun 2004)

If it were possible to get the media to cooperate[you won't] this idea is not as far-fetched as it sounds. 
Good post,
Bruce


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## nbk (21 Jun 2004)

Part of the problem is the media in the west. They give non stop 24 hour CNN coverage for both the Berg execution and this new guy. They whip the public up and give the terrorist suspects so much attention, which is exactly what they are after.

Do the terrorists want peace? No, they want war. They want more people to fight and crusade against. Once they saw how everyone over reacted to the Berg execution, they said "A ha! Now we know how to get their attention. We found a good strategy. We will do this more often, look how much attention they give us now". 

The media should report the news, say someone got killed and beheaded, but dont then say you can find the video on the internet, and show clips on the news, then interview the families and friends who are all riled up with bloodlust, and then go on for 20 more hours with middle east experts saying "this is the fault of their culture blah blah blah" then doctors and beheading experts saying how exactly someone will die once they are beheaded, then get the president to say how barbaric these people are and all that crap. 

All of that only serves to benefit the terrorists. They want attention. They say how they want all westerners out of the holy land, did anyone living in the west give a shit about what they wanted before? No, of course not. But now that they are getting all this attention, they think that people will now listen, and they need to keep the attention on them, so they kill more people, and the media goes orgasmic with coverage every time something new does happen.

As I said, the media should just report the news, so that people know whats happening in the world, but not go over the top insane about it.

Terrorists dont just use violence for their war, they also use the media. The media, of course will not wake up and stop helping the terrorists, because making their money and getting their ratings is more important.


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## Smoothbore (21 Jun 2004)

Great post Gunnar..

Why Marsha?


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## casing (22 Jun 2004)

Gunnar said:
			
		

> What they need to do is respond along these lines:
> 
> _SNIP! SNIP!_



I completely agree.  Excellent post!


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## Military Brat (22 Jun 2004)

The terrorists don't even want us to cave in to their demands. They make unrealistic demands in unrealistic timeframes, just so they can use it as a justification to kill. Then they go off and put out some statement justifying this beheading or killing and hide behind Islam while they are at it. 

The sad thing is they get the airtime for their propaganda videos and statements both in the Middle East and in the Western world. Every time a new video comes out from bin Laden or one of his henchmen, Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya are the first to carry it, then it is around the world within minutes, on CNN, BBC, CBC, and just about every other media outlet on the face of the earth. 

This war on terror isn't going to be won solely by force. It is fine to send soldiers to Iraq or Afghanistan with the goal of sending these punks to Allah, but every time you hear their crap on television or read it in the newspaper, it is playing to their interests, young Muslims are reading and hearing that and the terrorists are recruiting more and more people to join "the cause". 

If the media quit running their messages and propaganda, fewer and fewer people would be joining their cause. Their goal is to put the world against the West. It is a war of ideas. Our ideas against the ideas of the Muslim extremists. It is like the cold war against Communism. Helping the enemy put his message out is counter-productive.


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## Gunnar (22 Jun 2004)

A Very Brady Newscast?

Ted & Marsha....a very 70's view of newscasters, apparently.  Oh well, I'm just showing my age I guess.


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## Pieman (22 Jun 2004)

Unfortonate ending to this. I had  reports saying that the terrorists had extended the deadline, but it turns out those reports were false.
Everytime I read about a situation like this it makes me more and more angry and we are sitting on the sidelines. How long before a Canadian is beheaded? God forbid.

----------------------------------------------
Militants behead South Korean captive: report
Militants purportedly linked to al-Qaeda have beheaded a South Korean hostage being held captive in Iraq, Al-Jazeera television reports
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http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/06/22/world/korean_hostage040622


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## Military Brat (22 Jun 2004)

R.I.P. Kim Sun-Il. 

It's time to turn every available South Korean troop loose on these animals.


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## tabernac (22 Jun 2004)

> "Were going to kill this group of hostages unless you infidels all kill youreselves"



Im waiting for them to use that one. How is Spain ranked by the US? Lower than Canada?


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## jswift872 (22 Jun 2004)

OK, we, the free people of the world seriously need to look at a way to make this madness end, they give a short unrealistic deadline to meet, which you can't meet. but what will these animals do next, god only knows, it is a fucked up world out there, and we need to do something about it

 R.I.P. Kim Sun-IL. Paul Johnson. Nick berg.

we will find a solution, and we WILL make these bastards pay.....


what do you think needs to be done to stop these horrific events?


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## Military Brat (22 Jun 2004)

In order for these beheadings and other terrorist actions to stop, we have to eliminate every last one of the scumbags committing the crimes. They have no rationale, they cannot be negotiated with, in fact I doubt they even want to negotiate, they only want to justify their killings in the Muslim world. Justifying their killings as part of the "jihad" against the "infidels" promotes their cause, makes it out to be glorious and heroic and only brings them more fresh recruits to their terror training camps in Afghanistan and around the world. 

Along with eliminating the ones who are already lost causes, we also have to educate the Arab world that our values of peace, security, freedom, democracy and the whole 9 yards is better than the values held by the terrorists that blowing yourself up brings you eternal paradise. 

The terrorists use the Koran and their twisted interpretation to promote violence against Westerners. We need to work with clerics, moderate Muslims, etc. to tell Arabs that there really is something better out there for them than joining the likes of Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, or one of the other Islamic terror groups. A lot of the people who join such groups are young and bored, there is no employment they can find so they see no future for themselves in anything else but fighting the ones who they perceive as taking their jobs away. For example, in Saudi Arabia (where 70 percent of the population is under 19 years of age) there are many university graduates who just can't find jobs while Americans, Canadians, Britons, Japanese, etc. are living in the kingdom, taking away many high paying jobs. 

The war on terror is going to be fought using militaries, but it will be won through diplomacy, through education, through working with Arabs, and through giving jobs back to the Arabs.


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## Danjanou (22 Jun 2004)

Military Brat said:
			
		

> .....The terrorists use the Koran and their twisted interpretation to promote violence against Westerners. We need to work with clerics, moderate Muslims, etc. to tell Arabs that there really is something better out there for them than joining the likes of Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, or one of the other Islamic terror groups. A lot of the people who join such groups are young and bored, there is no employment they can find so they see no future for themselves in anything else but fighting the ones who they perceive as taking their jobs away. For example, in Saudi Arabia (where 70 percent of the population is under 19 years of age) there are many university graduates who just can't find jobs while Americans, Canadians, Britons, Japanese, etc. are living in the kingdom, taking away many high paying jobs.
> 
> The war on terror is going to be fought using militaries, but it will be won through diplomacy, through education, through working with Arabs, and through giving jobs back to the Arabs.



Well said.


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## Infanteer (22 Jun 2004)

I wouldn't be so hasty to come to the conclusion that unemplyoment is the root cause of terrorist support.  

This is a war of ideas, not a war of economics.


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## Jarnhamar (22 Jun 2004)

I think that some people need to realise  there are people in the world who won't negotiate. They won't listen to reason and they won't seek a peaceful resolution. The only way, unfortunately, is to reach them with violence.  There comes a time when you have to say "Okay these idiots are seriously going to get alto of people killed, their not going with the flow of things so were sending in some people to take their weapons away."

I think the idea of war and violence puts off a lot of people. It puts me off. Were all enlightened. Were all politically correct now and we don't judge people by the colour of their skin and we don't condom girls for liking girls, guys and guys. We don't want to hit our kids we want to give them time outs and treat them like little adults. A million other things. Thats just not the way it is. Using violence is the easiest way to get something and theres a lot of lazy people in the world.  The only way were going to win i believe is being bigger, stronger and at times, meaner, then these guys. They only understand one thing. They speak one language, and it's violence. We need to speak louder and louder downing them out until their silent and we can decide to end that conversation.


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## 1feral1 (22 Jun 2004)

About 12-14hrs ago, this poor bloke was brutally beheaded, and when his body was discovered earlier today, it was indeed booby trapped too.

Why am I not  suprised .

Thes so called followers of  :evil:radical islam :evil:  will get their just rewards in due process.

Wes


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## girlfiredup (22 Jun 2004)

Booby-trapped?  Where did you read this Wes?  I wouldn't mind seeing the article.  Thanks.


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## NavyGrunt (22 Jun 2004)

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/22/iraq.hostage/index.html


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## sgt_mandal (22 Jun 2004)

Military Brat said:
			
		

> through working with Arabs



.................Easier said than done.


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## 1feral1 (22 Jun 2004)

Came in on the Midday Network 10 news within the past 60mins here in their Sydney based offices, so try Reuters or CNN, as they seem to gather info from these places at times.

Also try www.foxnews.com or www.news.com.au or www.dailytelegraph.com.au as they might have it in their breaking news sections??

Either way, it should surface in writing in tomorrows papers everywhere.

Cheers,

Wes


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## Military Brat (22 Jun 2004)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be so hasty to come to the conclusion that unemplyoment is the root cause of terrorist support.
> 
> This is a war of ideas, not a war of economics.



No, it might not be the root cause of the terrorism, but it is sure a leading factor in many of these young men turning into terrorists. 

If I were a betting man, I would bet that a young, university graduate would be more likely to join Al Qaeda and the like if they were unemployed as opposed to if they were employed. 

They realise that if they do their violent acts, their beheads and their bombs, that foreigners will cower and return to the USA, Canada, the UK, Australia, Japan or wherever they might happen to have originated from. Then there are more jobs available to young Arabs.


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## girlfiredup (22 Jun 2004)

It might not be the last thing I want to read just prior to hitting the sack but thanks for the links Wes and RopeTech.


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## NavyGrunt (23 Jun 2004)

I would say "leading factor" is a little strong. These men don't enjoy normal lives. Paychecks are the least of a terrorists concerns. Its not a 9-5. Unless you work in the Hexbollah headquarters......


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## Danjanou (23 Jun 2004)

Infanteer, I agree this is a war of ideals not economics, but economics, as in all wars is a factor. 

Poverty, and boredom are major factors in the recruitment of the poor sods who hump the AK and RPGs of the OPFOR in this conflict. 

Look at most any guerrilla/terrorist/freedom fighter organization you want to. Many grab their recruits from the poorer sections of that society, FARC, PIRA, PLO, Hamas etc etc. The only exception of the top of my head would be RAF and the Red Brigades in Europe and their North American counterparts THE SLA in the US and Direct Action here in Canada, all of whom recruited mainly from the educated middle and upper middle classes IIRC. Even some of the Timothy McVeigh militia types could be said to fit this model if you stretch it a bit.

Add to that poverty, resentment and envy, and the realization that there is no way out  (education, job etc)  and  you have  some frustrated naÃƒÂ¯ve youth easily manipulated by an older, wiser person in "authority.â ? (kind of remind you of basic training and your favourite old guard Section Comd/Pl WO) and voila one future martyr for the cause.

You see the same thing in housing projects here and in the States where the role model for the young kids (usually in single parent households) is often the local gangbanger/drug dealer. Ooops excuse me I meant, "free lance recreational pharmaceutical salesman.â ?

Probably the reason that we don't see something similar here (yet?) vis a vis recruitment for terrorist cells is our cradle to grave welfare state that cushions the abject poverty to an extent. Then again we have our own issues regarding terrorist recruitment in this country.

The answer to winning this war, and it is one we have to win, is probably a lot more complex than boots on the ground, although that remains a major factor. 

Yeah we have to go in and take the ones in the field out. Don't get me wrong, I'm an Infanteer too, not some mushy NDP type. When we do so, no middle ground, take them down hard and fast. However we also have to prevent or at least limit them from raising a new generation of recruits at the same time. Otherwise this becomes a numbers game that I don't think we can afford to play.

Hearts and Minds has always been a major integral part of any successful counter terrorist campaign (Malaysia, Kenya,) or conversely the lack of it a contribution to its failure (Vietnam, Algeria)


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## 1feral1 (23 Jun 2004)

I dont think unemployment has anything to do with it, as what was quoted previously, its about idealsim, of radical islam. They are motivated with their fight against the 'western animals' 1000 fold compared to as much as you and I are motivated to fight terrorsim. Its a dangerous world, and if they have their way, we'll all be history.

The youth of radical islam are fed by indoctrination of their beliefs thru harsh schooling, religious clerics and even their own parents. sadly this is evening happening right here in Australia, and the surrounding areas of the region. The movement is growing worldwide.

When young mothers fantisise about their 2yr old boys being suicide bombers for islam, dressing them up in toy bomb vests and toy AKs, something is seriously wrong. Being martyred with 70 virgins and rivers of wine to drink is considered an honour, in their beliefs and an increasing amount of men (and women) want to to this for their cause. You and I are simply willing to oblige them.

They want an islamic ran state world wide, and want to dominate the world, and if any of us are in the way, we are just sub-human trash which gets in their way. Almost like some out of a movie, isnt it, but the killings are real as much as their goals.

They have come to hate the west for everything it stands for. From its capitalism, acceptance of booze, to womens rights (like westrern dress, driving and and education fo example, plus many more abuses of basic womens rights), to rock music to our openess and broad acceptance of what they consider a filthy sin. Even picures of anything living is forbidden. Now thats twisted isnt it.

This is sadly how it is.

I think not having a job is the last thing on the minds of these people.

Regards,

Wes


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## Infanteer (23 Jun 2004)

Danjanou, Wes; reading both your posts and mine here, I think we are on the same page.  Allow me to clarify my earlier statement.

The conflict in Iraq can come to a whole smattering of causes, and thus requires an approach that offers a smattering of solutions.  Guys in flip-flops will pick up RPG's for many reasons; ex-Republican Guard, subject of religious opportunism, unemployed and baited by Al Qaeda, you name it.

My post was referring to the Al Qaeda terrorist networks.  These are the products for the most parts of the militarization of the madrassas.  The terrorist funded madrassas on the Afghan - Pakistan border, designed as ideological training facilities by Zia to combat the Soviets, did there job quite well.  In fact, they did there job so well that what has been termed a "blowback" effect has occurred.  Pakistan, once the corner of the secular Raj, Islamisized for the most part and seen the extreme elements of its society come to the fore, picking on Pakistan's dreary domestic record due to its high level of military expenditures.  Recently, Musharaff has stated that he will take control of the imams in the madrassas in an attempt to stymie terrorist recruitment, how sincere his measures are I do not know, but I believe that policies like this are responsible for the recent attempts on his life.

Yes, economics is central.  We must ensure that middle eastern regimes are cajoled into reducing their reliance on extremists sects to provide basic education services.  It was something I noticed with a bit of trepidation during my tour to the Balkans; the only new buildings in the entire country where ones with minarets and Arabic writing on the walls.   We can help further victory by moving the citizens of the Middle East away from their subservience towards petty dictators and power hungry mullahs, and this will take a concerted effort of development for the infrastructure of these regions.

However, my remark was more directed to the somewhat naive remarks that simply giving someone a job at an oil refinery as he leaves the madrassa door is going to solve the problems of terrorism.  These people leave the camps fully committed, this proven by their ability to immolate themselves to further their cause.  In the long term, the problem can be tempered by removing the raw materials for the extremist leaders who twist the words of the religion to suit their goals, but to take on the terrorists themselves requires, as you said, boots on the ground.  It is essentially a test of will.

It is, as you say a complex affair.  I simply want to argue against the notion put forward by other members that a simple solution like "give them jobs" is as silly as a simple solution of "turn the Middle East into a parking lot."


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## muskrat89 (23 Jun 2004)

If I'm not mistaken, Mohammed Atta, one of the 911 pilots, was the son of a surgeon. I think some of the others were fairly well off, also. Everyone knows Bin Laden is a billionaire....

My impression is that (generally speaking)  the educated and well to do are the terror architects, activists, and agitators - whilst the poor, unemployed etc. become the fodder for the cause..


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## 1feral1 (23 Jun 2004)

Well said Muskrat.

when I speak of terrs, its radical islam in general with all their groups counting as as one. Whether is AQ, JI, and a heap of Palestinian ones too numerous to mention. But whether its England, Spain, Australia, USA and Canada too, their cause is known. The Philippines, Indonesia, The ME, Africa, Asia, or wherever the threat from them grows, and its a worldwide thing.many peopel bury theiur heads in the sand and refuse to regognise this fact, many blaming the US.

Just what are we up against? I think it s a sleeping monster which we are able to defeat, but which way should we go about doing it?

There are many avenues to take, but I just dont know which one will be the most overall effexctive. We will never win the hearts and minds of the bad guys no matter what.

Anyways, just a few thoughts.

Cheers,

Wes


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