# personal role radios



## zak (26 Sep 2004)

Quick question on the personal role radios being used by the athena guys.  In all of the pictures i have seen with guys with PRRs, i have yet to locate a pretzel switch of any sort.  Can anyone fill me in on where its located on teh soldiers bodys.  Aswell do the guys using them find them useful?


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## MG34 (27 Sep 2004)

The P switch is located on the radio (side) or can be remote mounted on the wrist,weapon etc.


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## chrisp1j (2 Oct 2004)

They should be standard issue. The advantages to having them in combat can hardly be measured. We had them issued to us during CAC, and they saved hours of confusion (and would have saved lives on a real battlefield). Invaluable.


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## PPCLI Guy (2 Oct 2004)

Except of course that they are unencrypted...


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## Jarnhamar (2 Oct 2004)

I remember working with the little hand held raidios you buy at radio shack. They were perfect for so many situations. (one of the platoons used the GPS/Radio combo but found they were going through aa batteries like mad and the CQ couldnt keep up with the demand)

We were told we were not allowed to use them anymore as a british patrol in iraq was using them and were ambushed because the iraqi guys were listening to the patrols communications. We were told to use military raido's only.


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## Parasoldier (2 Oct 2004)

The PRRs are a great tool for inter patrol comms.  You could easily use them in an ORV and pass on info without anyone moving.  So many advantages, plus some are capable of also hooking up to a 521 or 522 radio, giving commanders ability to listen to higher and their unit at the same time.
One reason that we did not use FRS in Op ATHENA was that many IEDs are remote detonated.  Use of FRS may initiate the explosion set by the terrorists.  
The short range on the PRR is good as well.  The enemy would have to be in your patrols immediate vicinity to hear anything (if they had the freq) and by this time you are probably a couple of seconds away from engaging them.
We use FRS for trg on exercise, but only for admin purposes.  The PRRs are coming.


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## chrisp1j (2 Oct 2004)

They dont have to be encrypted as they arent command level radios. Most of the chatter on our frequencies occured during our firefights, and was used to locate people and organize. I agree that it would be easy to tap into those frequencies, but there was no information important to the overall attack going over those nets (not to mention the fact that there are tons of frequencies, so the eavesdropper would have no idea which section was saying what).


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## PPCLI Guy (2 Oct 2004)

chrisp1j said:
			
		

> They dont have to be encrypted as they arent command level radios. Most of the chatter on our frequencies occured during our firefights, and was used to locate people and organize. I agree that it would be easy to tap into those frequencies, but there was no information important to the overall attack going over those nets (not to mention the fact that there are tons of frequencies, so the eavesdropper would have no idea which section was saying what).



Fair enough - the info that you were sending was immediate, and would be difficult to act on immediately.  Having said that, you would be amazed at the amount of nfo that can be divined from a low-level chat net (perhaps a Sigs type could weigh in here).

When I had my Light Company, we were fortunate enough to have 522 (you kow - the little ones) down to Section level.  This meant that we could run an "all inform" Company chat net - and it was secure.  We very quickly worked out SOPs such that when I spoke, chat stopped, and it worked very well.


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## Parasoldier (2 Oct 2004)

We tried the "all inform" Company chat net and found advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages would be the quick passage of information and everyone was in the know.
Disadvantages - for example, the OC does not want to hear a Pl Comd sorting out a fwd Op.  That combined with working with other arms such as Eng, Arty, and Armoured (we know how they like to talk on the radio) caused for a very hectic airway.  It was all good when the OC would talk, but sometimes trying to get the Pl info up to the OC was an issue.

Agreed that 522 are valuable at the Sect lvl, it was really effective on a Pl net (separate freq).  The Pl Comd could monitor both Coy and Pl nets.  Once we got our hands on the PRR, sect comd and pl comd could speak to their troops and listen to the 522 at the same time.  Very effective for dismounted ops.  We still watched what we said on the PRRs as they are not secure.  That is when that old 77 set training kicked in!


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## baboon6 (14 Dec 2004)

I know what the 521 radio is but what is the 522?


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## dw_1984 (14 Dec 2004)

522s are the backpack style radios.  big box w/ a display and keypad.  I BELIEVE they are used to program the smaller 521s.


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## Cooper (14 Dec 2004)

> I BELIEVE they are used to program the smaller 521s.


 I'm not in a comms sqn or anything but from what I've been told/ taught (and had to do a couple of times) the 522s are not used for programming the 521s. You program the 521s by the J-box (its a little number pad type thing, looks like a calculator). You can also hook the radio up to a laptop run a computer program and have the laptop do all the number typing for you. I'm not sure as to how the 522s get programed, I'm assuming the laptop method as they are much more complicated than the simple 521s you can easily program via the J-box.


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## teltech (14 Dec 2004)

The 521 can only be programmed by another 521 via a cloning cable; a J-box alone or hooked up to a PC. Crypto has to be filled separately. 522s can be pgmd manually    or via a DTD. 
(see, ya teach something, and some of it sticks!   ;D)


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## teltech (14 Dec 2004)

(Somewhat on-topic...)
Another thing I found in my days as a ground pounder is the lack of COMSEC WRT cellphones. I had a scanner set up in the Sig Ops truck on ex, and some people thought "Screw the net, I'll tell so and so what I want next" and it came in loud and clear - Grids, passwords, pers, timings - you name it. When EN Force did that, they found that being woken at 0230 w arty sims, T-flashes, and C6 blank really sucks.
 :gunner: :fifty: :sniper:


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## Fusaki (14 Dec 2004)

Its too bad we don't have a way to integrate a PRR into the LAV's IC system... or do we? Has anyone experimented with this?

On a side note, be carefull with the COMSEC boys. Better to be on the safe side and keep the TCCCS talk to a minimum.


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## teltech (14 Dec 2004)

Ghostwalk said:
			
		

> On a side note, be carefull with the COMSEC boys. Better to be on the safe side and keep the TCCCS talk to a minimum.


VERY valid point... any info I post goes through a google check first, if the info is plain as day, then fine. If I have to make an effort to find it, then mmmmm maybe not. Not there? Then not here. 
That's one way to sleep good at night :boring:


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## foerestedwarrior (14 Dec 2004)

I have yet to use the PRR's, but on the last ex I was on, every section had a 521, they were all on one company net, and I couldnt reach our platoon signaler to call in a shit rep. The other platoon, had very little radio dicipline, and the were always on it. It was confusing, and eventually, I had to send one of my tropps running the 400m to our coy HQ. I like the idea of the PRR's though, ans would love to give on a try on an ex or something.


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## KevinB (14 Dec 2004)

The PRR needs a more robust headset hookupcsystem.


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## GerryCan (14 Dec 2004)

PRR is definetely good as a form of 'LOWER' means that too many people forget, or refuse to implement. There is nothing worse than working on one command net alone, and not being able to get through to anyone when you really need to because someone is passing on an adrep etc. over the means.
The 521's in my opinion are useless. Some people will argue this with me until they are blue in the face, but my thoughts still remain. They're a pain in the ass to load whether it be freq's or krypto, the battery life sucks and the range is inadequate. They're too much work for the role they serve. We're better off using something like the PRR or a Motorola style rad in it's place and practice more radio discipline. Have the PRR's in the section and maybe have one guy with a 522 so they have better range and the security of krypto.
As for the Brit ptl getting ambushed in Iraq because of the use of an unencrypted radio, well there is probably more to it than that. Maybe they too were blabbing on the net too much, who knows.


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## GDawg (14 Dec 2004)

Oh, I bet the British ambush was just as simple as it sounds. The ironic thing is that CFSCE shows a COMSEC/TRANSEC video that shows that precise thing happening to a British patrol...

They probably said.."we are in the tan building next to the flaming bus", and wham! or maybe they got DF'ed. It would be stupid to assume the insurgents couldn't use scanners and direction finding gear they bought off radioshack against overly confident western forces...


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## dw_1984 (14 Dec 2004)

Cooper said:
			
		

> > I BELIEVE they are used to program the smaller 521s.
> 
> 
> I'm not in a comms sqn or anything but from what I've been told/ taught (and had to do a couple of times) the 522s are not used for programming the 521s. You program the 521s by the J-box (its a little number pad type thing, looks like a calculator). You can also hook the radio up to a laptop run a computer program and have the laptop do all the number typing for you. I'm not sure as to how the 522s get programed, I'm assuming the laptop method as they are much more complicated than the simple 521s you can easily program via the J-box.



I stand corrected.  Comms crse is something I'd like to take this summer.  I was told on my BMQ that the 522s programmed the 521s.  It didn't help that I didn't use either outside the classroom.


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## Armymedic (14 Dec 2004)

"they" are building IED's who can be triggered by a radio broadcast on a specific frequency. I am not sure how, as it is not my forte, but that is the reason, I am told, FRS radios are not to be used by CF overseas.


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## KevinB (15 Dec 2004)

FRS was a no-no due to lack of encryption - of course we all had PRR's that are no incrypted too...

The 521 is a true POS...


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## GDawg (15 Dec 2004)

KevinB said:
			
		

> FRS was a no-no due to lack of encryption - of course we all had PRR's that are no incrypted too...
> 
> The 521 is a true POS...



Not that I don't disagree to some extent but, could you please elaborate about the 521? I dislike the headsets very much. I am tempted to grab an NS one, (not in rare supply) and splice something nicer to it. As a person whose exposure to the 521 is limited to programming, I'd like to hear what the real users have to say.


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## sapper332 (17 Dec 2004)

While in Kabul on Roto 0, the big threat to all users was the RC IED threat. The PRR's were rated against such threats, as they frequency hop making it difficult for the baddies to home in on a section on foot patrolling by. The "civvie" model FRS's were NOT supposed to be used in theatre, as many previous members have said - although there is a right place and time for any piece of kit. In BUA the soldiers (to the best of my knowledge) NEVER used their FRS's, as they were cognisant of the RC IED threat - but out in the badlands with miles of desert around you it didn't pose as much of a threat.
   Speaking from experience, some of the RC devices that were found were very high tech.... that country isn't a back-ass as one would think. All users be wary, even the 521/522's are not impervious to the RC threat - unless you've got the ECM gadgetry attached to your kit and you're in the "safe-bubble'.


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## GerryCan (17 Dec 2004)

GDawg said:
			
		

> Not that I don't disagree to some extent but, could you please elaborate about the 521? I dislike the headsets very much. I am tempted to grab an NS one, (not in rare supply) and splice something nicer to it. As a person whose exposure to the 521 is limited to programming, I'd like to hear what the real users have to say.




As I said earlier, the 521 is a junker because it's a pain to load freq's and krypto into, the range is pretty much useless and the battery power is weak so it loses it's krypto very easily.


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## KevinB (17 Dec 2004)

GerryCan said:
			
		

> As I said earlier, the 521 is a junker because it's a pain to load freq's and krypto into, the range is pretty much useless and the battery power is weak so it loses it's krypto very easily.



Ditto


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## foerestedwarrior (17 Dec 2004)

Iv been on exercises were we use cell phones for comms, because all of our 521's are down, and the FRS are out of range........


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## GerryCan (17 Dec 2004)

Right there is the reason I seldomly pack the 521's. I'd rather hump a man-pack all day than mess around with a 521.


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## KevinB (18 Dec 2004)

Two words...

SAT PHONE  ;D

 The whatevers its name encrypted jobbied we had in Afghan rocked.


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## GerryCan (19 Dec 2004)

Also an excellent piece of kit 8)

You back from Roto 2 Kevin? I'm heading out early february for Julien.


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## KevinB (20 Dec 2004)

Yeah,

Good luck at the "Love Boat"...


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## GerryCan (9 Jan 2005)

I don't even want to know, Kevin.


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