# Civies take it all for granted-Do You Hate Peace Protesters?



## ArmyAl (8 Oct 2001)

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

It is the soldier, not the lawyer who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves under the flag and whose coffin is draped by the flag who allows the protester to burn the flag.

author unknown

I hate peace protesters and wannabe hippies.   :evil:


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## GPMG (8 Oct 2001)

ArmyAl: 

Read your own post and tell me how you can justify the statement that you hate peace protesters.

"_It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate_"

You wear the uniform and stand guard so that others have the freedom to demonstrate. You just said it yourself. If you don‘t like this fact, then what are you doing in the Army?


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## Disturbance (8 Oct 2001)

AHHHHHH  I KNOW....so frustrating.  Seriously someone needs to go up to the peace bitches and punch them in face...then when they try and fight back you remind them violence does not solve violence and when they say‘ ah yeah your right‘ you nail them again and keep doing so til they break and take a swing. then you kindly say ‘see sometimes there is a time for violence‘. 

My buddy told me last night that the states is stupid for attacking like that cause now they will retaliate to us. Well no s,hit sherlock ,but we expect them to. And its not like talking has helped the past decade. The WTC is not the first attack and wont be the last until this s,hit is dealt with. BAH some friends eh.


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## Fishbone Jones (8 Oct 2001)

Hey ArmyAl,

Hee Hee,
That‘s two in a row that haven‘t made it off the start line.     Keep tryin‘ though, we‘re all ears. But in all seriousness, think a little before you speak(write?). These guys are pretty sharp and won‘t let you get away with much. Liked the saying though, sounds like it may have been born out of Viet Nam.


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## Roko (8 Oct 2001)

That quote was by Charles M. Province...

I beleive that they should have the right to protest, but it‘s annoying when they protest stuff that they have no clue about..


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## GPMG (8 Oct 2001)

Actually, I rather liked what one of the protesters representing the protest in Toronto said to CBC Newsworld: 

"We think that Osama bin Ladin should be brought to international court" 

Sure lady... we‘ll mail a sugar coated invitation to his cave saying: "How ‘bout two o‘clock on Sunday? We‘ll schedule you in right after Milosevic‘s sentencing."


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## RCA (8 Oct 2001)

Yea, I really hate protesters beacuse they don‘t agree with me. As Bush says, you either for us or agan us. So shut up , we don‘t need your point opf view. Les go smoke some protestors to prove we aren‘t neanderyhals.

Look what those protestors did in the 60‘s. If it hadn‘t been for them the Americans could waxed the VC and only lost a 100.000 in the end, instead of getting out of a losing propstion with "only" 58,000 dead.

and here‘s one for you Army Al (although I must ask whose army, definaly not mine). Why did the husband beat his wife - because she just wouldn‘t f***ing listen. If you think thats funny, you need to see a professional.


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## colinj (8 Oct 2001)

I totally agree with you i hate peace, anti military bastards and everyone associated with them  :cam:


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## ArmyAl (8 Oct 2001)

recce guy i think before i speak or write.
People forget that we all have opions, so what I write is what I believe or think, if you or others don‘t like it, then too bad thats life.
Thanks for reading my messages it means soo much to me!
Roko thanks for the name of the author and I had a feeling that it was a "nam" poem.
RCA I‘ve been a soldier in three different nation‘s and I never have heard that joke.


  :evil:


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## ArmyAl (8 Oct 2001)

Oh ya GPMG lighten up, it sounds like have never hated anything in your life.  :blotto:


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## Fishbone Jones (8 Oct 2001)

AAl,
 Don‘t get your knickers in a twist. I was merely stating what GPMG said. Don‘t contradict yourself with your own statement, I you reread your statement before posting you may have caught it. The icons and the snicker at the beginning meant my post was a poke in good fun. Relax.


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## Roko (8 Oct 2001)

> I totally agree with you i hate peace, anti military bastards and everyone associated with them
> - colinj



whoa there buddy.. You hate peace? now that can‘t be right...


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## GPMG (8 Oct 2001)

Actually, I just wanted to remind others, especially the younger members here, that the people we are sworn to protect include those protesters.


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## RCA (9 Oct 2001)

My mistake Army Al. Re-reading the posts the joke should have been directed to Disturbance ( I think more aptly named Disturbed).


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## Disturbance (9 Oct 2001)

RCA 
I am frustrated cause these protesters think you can actually reason with the terrorists. These fundamentalists are so out of whack its rediculous. They are not on the same moral page as we are our logic doesnt make sense to them as theirs doesnt make sense to us.

Do the protesters have a solution to the problem aside from stop the violence? And once we do ,they hit SF or LA...then what. Notice I said ‘sometimes there is a need‘ and I firmly believe this is one of those times. You bring a good point about vietnam cause the reason we bailed out of there is cause we didnt have the will to finish it. If we dont have the will to finish this then the war is already lost.  This is one of those times when you have to stick by your leaders and their decisions 100% or your screwed. You see here we protest about anitwar and peace but in the ME they protest about bringing down America and are more fanatical about that then we are even about peace. 

This is just my opinion. I never said there should be no protesters...they can do whatever they want but I still think ppl should knock some sense into them. GPMG you hit the nail on the head cause that point about our duty is to protect the protester alike everyone else is where a lot of my frustration stems from cause I lay down my life for someone who thinks its a waste is pretty weak if you ask me.


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## Michael Dorosh (9 Oct 2001)

> Originally posted by Disturbance:
> [qb]AHHHHHH  I KNOW....so f,ucking frustrating.  Seriously someone needs to go up to the peace bitches and punch them in face...then when they try and fight back you remind them violence does not solve violence and when they say‘ ah yeah your right‘ you nail them again and keep doing so til they break and take a swing. then you kindly say ‘see sometimes there is a time for violence‘.
> 
> My buddy told me last night that the states is stupid for attacking like that cause now they will retaliate to us. Well no s,hit sherlock ,but we expect them to. And its not like talking has helped the past f,ucking decade. The WTC is not the first attack and wont be the last until this s,hit is dealt with. BAH some friends eh.[/qb]




Without a doubt the most ignorant and stupid post I‘ve seen here in a long time.

Why does everyone assume that all so-called "protestors" are hippocrites?  I am sure many of them wouldn‘t "take a swing" at anyone under any circumstances.  Believe it or not, many so-called peace activists feel as deeply about their convictions as those people who swear an oath to HM the Queen, and wear Her uniform in the service of this country.

Or does the thought of beating on defenceless people simply appeal to you on some level?

The Army, like the police, firefighters, etc. exist to help those who can‘t help themselves.

If you think that beating up defenceless people will prove something, you‘re as deluded as the people who think that murdering thousands of Afghanis with nuclear bombs will do any good.


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## Infanteer (9 Oct 2001)

I am with Disturbance,
These people are retards.  They don‘t seem to realize that you can‘t reason with people who just give their own lives in order to murder 6,000 people.  Sometimes violence is the *ONLY* means neccessary.  Hell, I bet you these protesters would be marching on Parliament on September 10, 1939 for Canada‘s "imperial interference on Germany‘s right to such and such and blahblahblah..."
  I know it is their right to believe what ever the hell they want, but I hate to see this waste of freedom that has been paid for so dearly by many soldiers who have come before me.  I go to a particular University that is hive for this bull*hit (Both students and faculty).  Everyone sits back and says how bad the government is, and how bad the state is, and how bad the West is...blahblahblah.  Hey, if you don‘t like this place, move to Afganistan, or China, or where ever the grass is greener.  I did not sign up to protect these ideas.  People should be taught to have a little social responsibility....
Hey Disturbance, make sure you use the proper form of the instructions as the analogy makes more sense,...
<Borrowed from another page>


> Here is what you do if you happen upon a peace rally and you‘re compelled to teach someone why retaliatory force is sometimes necessary:
> 1) Approach the person talking about "peace" and saying there should be, "no retaliation."
> 2) Engage in a brief conversation, ask if military force is appropriate.
> 3) When he says "Hell No!" ask him, "Why not?"
> ...


Well, I‘ll jump off the soapbox.  Stay Safe....


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## Mike Bobbitt (10 Oct 2001)

I have to say that I‘m pretty shocked at some of the posts I‘ve seen in this thread.

It seems that the understandable anger and aggression that is felt towards the groups involved in this heinous act is now being re-directed to our *own* civilian population.

What the...?

Let‘s stay focused here folks. It‘s this kind of "infighting" that‘s going to destroy what is already a weak political will to contribute anything meaningful to this task.


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## Disturbance (10 Oct 2001)

K I am not about to go out and beat some hippie to the ground (sarcasm hard to tell in text I know)....I was trying to make a point. And I apologize for letting my anger get the best of my thread writing capabilities. 

You are correct in saying ‘infighting will destroy an already weak political will‘ AND that is my point. Even if I werent in here voicing my opinion they are still going to be out there BELlowing out theirs and the difference is that ppl will see theirs. I also do recognize that it is a very small % of ppl actually protesting compared to the population. But to see on tv one channel has ppl back east going insane over the burning of a flag and happy that thousands are now dead and changing to the next to see some couple stuck in the 70s preaching give peace a chance, what they dont understand is that WE HAVE given it a chance. 

you guys all make valid points and I agree with them 100%...ya know these are the ppl I am sworn to protect, that we exist to help those who cant help themselves..and I wouldnt be so upset if it werent that way. I just cant stand ignorance, the same way I am bitter at our govt for ignoring us for years or about civvies who have no appreciation for our forces whatsoever.

I appreciatie Infanteer for posting the actual post from the other site to clear it up a bit. 

I find it weird to be justifying my opinion while at the same time agreeing with your guys points, but I think its good that I am venting here cause my friends seem to be more lala side than I can handle right now.

Infanteer shoot me an email regarding this thurs night.

-Disturbance

War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

- John Stuart Mill


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## Roko (10 Oct 2001)

Kinda reminds me of this cartoon I once saw, where there was a protest.. more protesters came, and asked "what are we protesting?".. Someone told them, and they said "oh, I think I‘ve got that in here somewhere", and started flipping pages on their protest signs, each page had a different thing.. 

Professional protesters, who don‘t understand the full issues, but like to protest anyways, no matter what it‘s about.


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## King (10 Oct 2001)

I think so much anger agains the peacenicks stems from the fact that for years their orthadoxy has ruled the west. As well, they have a tendency to silence anyone who disagrees with them by throwing around words like racist, homophobic, intolerent, and sexist, even when they are completely unwarrented.

Personally, their naivety and hippocracy pisses me off to no end. Yet I still respect their right to free speech and now is still the time to question our leaders.


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## Infanteer (10 Oct 2001)

Here is why protestors piss me off....

_We are sure of Allah’s victory and our victory against the Americans and the Jews as promised by the prophet peace be up on him: “Judgment day shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, whereas the Jews will hide behind trees and stones, and the tree and the stone will speak and say ‘Muslim, behind me a Jew come and kill him’, except for the al-Ghargad tree, which is a Jewish plant.”
    We are sure of our victory. Our battle with the Americans is larger than our battle with the Russians. The Americans made a very stupid mistake that no one has made before. They attached the Muslim symbol, the Kibla, of 200 million people. The reaction was very encouraging by the Muslim scholars and the youth.
     We predict a black day for America and the end of the United States as United States, and will be separate states, and will retreat from our land and collect the bodies of its sons back to America. Allah willing._
*Osama Bin Ladin*

_U.S. foreign policy is soaked in blood. And other countries of the West--including, shamefully, Canada--cannot line up fast enough behind it. But the people, the American nation that Bush is invoking, is a people which is bloodthirsty, vengeful and calling for blood. They don‘t care whose blood it is, they want blood.... There will be no emancipation for women anywhere on this planet until the Western domination of this planet is ended._
*Sunera Thobani, professor at the University of British Columbia*

A friend of my enemy is my enemy....


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## Michael Dorosh (10 Oct 2001)

> Originally posted by Disturbance:
> [qb]I just cant stand ignorance, the same way I am bitter at our govt for ignoring us for years or about civvies who have no appreciation for our forces whatsoever.[/qb]



We are all in the same boat, dude.  Unfortunately, as tempting as it is to try, there are limits to how much common sense you can physically beat into a person...

There is the old joke about how women are like computers - sometimes you have to punch information into them.  We know that isn‘t true (and in most circles not even funny) but it is equally untrue with those who would mock our armed forces or question why we exist.

Like I say...we have all been tempted to knock some sense into these people, but in the end - it would do no good.  And even talking about it makes us the bad guys. Again.


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## Fishbone Jones (10 Oct 2001)

Well, now that everyone‘s had a little rant and blown off some steam and gotten it out of their system(hopefully). Maybe we can put this thread to bed with no recriminations to anyone. It‘s not what we‘re about, and does not reflect kindly on the hard work and dedication we‘ve all put in. I vote to lock it out and put it behind us.


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## Brad Sallows (10 Oct 2001)

No need to get all worked up.  If it‘s something you read, just take it in stride.  If it‘s something said to you, take the measure of the criticism and counterargue appropriately by drawing attention to whatever is weaker elsewhere: freedom of expression; freedom of religion; separation of church and state; rights of women, foreigners, and minorities; openness of media and means of communication; the right to purchase and drink beer, etc.  We are not perfect.  Imagine that.  So how do we stack up by comparison?

If people profess to self-loathing for being Canadian, American, whatever, ask what they would prefer to be and then where they can be that.  They will be hard-pressed to answer, and I‘ll bet not many who can think of a place will be prepared to move there.


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## Disturbance (10 Oct 2001)

I agree with recceguy on this one now that everyone is on the same page (pretty much), we should lock this one up.


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## King (11 Oct 2001)

... but before we do I have to point out another obvious contradiction in Sunera Thobani‘s rhetoric. 



> There will be no emancipation for women anywhere on this planet until the Western domination of this planet is ended.



So governments like the Taliban, which has been so kind to women (sarcasm) can rule the rest of the world instead. I mean, c‘mon, how the hell can you miss that one?


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## Yard Ape (11 Oct 2001)

MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO "TAKE IT ALL FOR GRANTED" . . . 

*Why we can‘t sit on the fence: guns, germs and fear*
By MARGARET WENTE
The Globe and Mail
Thursday, October 11, 2001

There‘s some good news, I guess, about the death by anthrax of Bob Stevens last week. So far, there‘s no evidence that it was the result of a terrorist attack. So far, it‘s merely a grotesque coincidence that Mr. Stevens worked for a lurid American tabloid in a building located right down the road from the South Florida neighbourhood where Osama bin Laden‘s gang of terrorists hung out, and that the tabs have been targeting the Ã¼bervillain with screaming headlines. It‘s just a coincidence that Mr. Stevens was the first person to die of anthrax inhalation in the United States in 25 years, and the first reported case of anthrax exposure inside a building.

That‘s the good news. The bad news is, it was not an accident. The anthrax bacteria were released on purpose into the air in the building, and came from a strain that had been bioengineered in a lab. A second victim, a mailroom employee, is now recovering. The chance that there was no human intervention, said a top U.S. health official, is "nil to zero."

Just a loony with a grudge? Let‘s hope. But if a loony with a grudge can get his hands on anthrax and "weaponize" it, as the experts put it, then so can a terrorist with a mission.

"There are about 15 or 16 countries where there are programs studying biological weapons," says microbiologist Donald Lowe, who is chief of Toronto Medical Laboratories. Not all of them are nice guys. One is Iraq, a long-time friend of Osama bin Laden. During the Persian Gulf war, Saddam Hussein‘s labs made enough germs to kill everyone on the planet. The U.S. bombed the labs, but didn‘t get them all. Then there‘s Kazakhstan, once part of the Soviet Union, which built up huge stockpiles of plague, smallpox and other nasty stuff. No one knows the whereabouts of those germs, or of the scientists who cooked them up.

Once upon a time, we thought the most noxious substances on our horizon were genetically modified foods and secondhand smoke. Allan Rock raised a ruckus over them, and demanded labels on food and cigarettes to warn us of the dangers. But bioterror? Not to worry. "The biggest disease we have to face right now is fear, and there‘s no reason for Canadians to regard this as anything but a remote threat," he said on Tuesday. Our public-health officials are working hard to keep us safe, he reassured us. Well, what else could he say?

In a well-timed new book called Germs,three New York Times reporters lay out enough evidence of biothreats to keep anyone awake at night. They document the ease with which a terrorist group can make a germ weapon "from a few handfuls of backyard dirt and some widely available lab equipment." They remind us that Mr. bin Laden has tried to get biological weapons from Russian organized crime. And they warn that, when it comes to public-health protection, you might as well forget about it. You could well be dead before the officials even know you‘re sick.

Last June, a group of U.S. security experts and political leaders ran a simulation exercise called "Dark Winter." In it, they tried to contain a small, simulated outbreak of bioterrorist-induced smallpox. They couldn‘t. Within three months, it had killed a million simulated people in 10 countries.

The Germs authors interviewed just about every expert in North America and found they were widely divided about the likelihood of an attack. Dr. Low told me he thinks it‘s small; Bill Patrick, a leading U.S. germ-warfare expert, says it‘s "highly likely." Dr. Low adds that the worry factor is greater since Sept. 11, because we now know moral constraints no longer apply. Terrorists will kill anyone, including themselves.

Even as our country commits our ships and planes and men and women to back America, quite a few Canadians continue to argue that we should not get off the fence. "No middle ground is being allowed," complained yet another commentator on the CBC yesterday. We are being pushed into "group mindthink" and forced into a simplistic choice between "good" and "evil." Former foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy argued this week that, if we participate in military operations, we will compromise "our value as an independent player."

Besides, our officials reassure us, Canada is not a terrorist target.

That‘s nice. But the germs don‘t know that.

"There are thousands of young people who are as keen about death as Americans are about life," said an al-Qaeda spokesman on TV the other day, in case we needed reminding. Can anyone doubt that, if some of those young men have deadly germs or chemicals, they will try to commit mass murder with them?

It‘s hard to imagine how Canadians could ever have an easier moral choice than the one we have now. Maybe the people who are wringing their hands about being pushed off the fence should contemplate what a vial of smallpox might do.


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## ArmyAl (12 Oct 2001)

Holy fuc,k balls
who was to think my post was to get so many fired up.
Its good to see others opions on the protesters.
Roko I love when its peace and quit but not "peace protesters".


  :evil:


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## ender (12 Oct 2001)

You people think you have it bad, I live on the UofT campus!  I feel like walking around poosting signs that say "we have a moral right to defend ourselves", just to conteract all the crap thats posted around here.


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## peanutshel (12 Oct 2001)

Boy, people just can‘t say anything.  That was just a nice little "ditty" and all you people jump all over it!  Didn‘t you take the mandatory sensativity training? If you did you wouldn‘t be so nasty..
Now.... NUKE THE BISTERDS!!!  :mg:


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## King (12 Oct 2001)

XCameron,

My thoughts exactly.


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## enfield (12 Oct 2001)

ender, you think you have it bad? I live on the UBC campus....fun fun.


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## Gunner (12 Oct 2001)

For all those who think peaceniks don‘t have a use.

 http://www.xs4all.nl/~dromero/diplomacy.swf  

I laughed my self silly.

Cheers!


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## King (12 Oct 2001)

Dammit, I was goning to post that link, you beat me to it.


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## Gunner (12 Oct 2001)

;-)


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## Gunner (12 Oct 2001)




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## enfield (25 Oct 2001)

Hope someone sees this, buried at the back of this long threat.
Relating to peaceniks..
UBC‘s pride (I wish that was sarcasm)Thobani is returning to be bathed in affection.
She had the front page of today‘s student paper, and an article that blatantly supported her, her views, and her actions, and found a number of her supporters for quotes. She‘ll be at a meeting/rally tomorrow - sponsored by the Women‘s Affairs branch of the student society - plus there is an anti-war conference somehwere else on campus tomorrow. All this follows up the "dead in" last week (20 people lying on th ground with signs like "Afghani Child" or "Canadian soldier" on their backs) . And Amnesty International had their usual pro-Palestinian,anti-war display up last week. 

Now, can someone explain to me how someone like Thobani, who claims to be so pro- freedom bans the media from her last event??!! 

God I love this place....


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## Alfreda (25 Oct 2001)

Hi guys
I am a civvy, but I don‘t take anything for granted.
As for these nuts that are demonstrating, I wonder how many of them have ever been threated by anybody.  Betcha they‘d be screaming for help.
Dad was regular army. I know what he had to do, where, and why.  If we don‘t have people who are willing to stand up and defend us civvies, I hate to think what would happen to our freedoms that were so hard fought for.  1,000,000 Canadians must be rolling in their graves


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## Roko (25 Oct 2001)

We haven‘t had too much in the way of peace-protests at the UofA, at least not at a large scale..

A week after the attacks, there was a big circle of people discussing about peaceful solutions to the threat, but as far as I know they weren‘t bashing the military.. 

There was a lecture entitled ‘Jihad on Campus‘, which basically dealt with how Islam and Jihad isn‘t evil and anti-west, but rather how it‘s Osama, Taliban, and other extremists who make it seem that way.. It wasn‘t a protest, it was just to create public awarness of what Islam really is, and hopefully curb some of the negative stereotypes created..  It was a good to hold that lecture, in my opinion


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## King (25 Oct 2001)

Ha,

Here at the U of O the student union‘s immediate response to the attacks was to launch an anti-racism campaign. We also had one of those "Islam isn‘t bad lectures," and a peace rally of about 200 people in front of the U.S. embassy (although I don‘t think that was organized by the university).

But this being Ottawa, I‘m sure there‘s more to come. Especially if Canada starts dropping bombs. 

No "dead in‘s" though, that one‘s pretty amusing.


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## Infanteer (26 Oct 2001)

People confuse me....


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## John Nayduk (26 Oct 2001)

Alfreda:
Those 1,000,000 people guaranteed the peaceniks the right to protest.  I hope the peaceniks eventually realize it (sooner or later).  My friend Centurion says something about people sleeping soundly because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.  I wonder if they would have protested the second world war?


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## Alfreda (26 Oct 2001)

Recce:
There is a lady, I beleive she‘s in her 90‘s now, (can‘t quite remember her name) anyway, she protested during the second war.  Last nights news had an interview with her. So, there were protests and demonstrations, even then. 
While I am here, I‘m speaking in several schools,for the first time, with regards to Poppy and Rememberance day. Anybody have any ideas how I can approach little ones in order to make it interesting without scaring the bejeebers out of them.  Like I said, I am a "civvy".  Very involved with our Canadian Veterans though.  I have been given no giudelines, only  an advisory to make the content accurate.
Cheers
Freda


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## Mike Bobbitt (26 Oct 2001)

Alfreda,

Sounds like you‘re involved in some challenging and important work. I‘d recommend you start a new thread and ask your question there. You‘re more likely to get the type of information you‘re looking for that way...

Cheers


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## Alfreda (26 Oct 2001)

Thanks Mike, will do
Freda


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