# The Whole New Knife, Liz May, Gear Up, Racism Merged Thread



## tech2002 (16 Sep 2008)

Found this on Global and Mail website
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080916.welxnmayknife0916/BNStory/Front

copy from the article



BILL CURRY

Globe and Mail Update

September 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM EDT

OTTAWA — Green Party Leader Elizabeth May took a shot at Defence Minister Peter MacKay today, accusing his department of cancelling a supply contract with a knife manufacturer in the minister's own riding.

Mr. MacKay's riding of Central Nova also happens to be the same one that Ms. May has chosen to run in as a candidate.

The Green Leader issued a statement Tuesday morning expressing her “shock” that Canada would end its knife contract with the Pictou firm.

“My next thought was what kind of other shoddy non-Canadian goods are being purchased for our soldiers in cost-cutting measures?" said Ms. May's statement.

Michelle Jamieson, a co-owner of the Grohmann Knives company in Pictou County, confirmed that after more than 20 years of successful bids, her company has lost the annual knife contract to a Chinese manufacturer two years ago. The company has since been unsuccessful at winning back the contract.

Ms. Jamieson said her company raised the issue directly with Mr. MacKay and then-Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier when they toured the Grohmann Knives factory in June.

The knives are used by paratroopers to escape from their parachute harness.

Ms. Jamieson said the Chinese-made knives look the same as the ones designed by her company except they say Made in China. She said the company has received many complaints about their poor quality from users who were not aware they are no longer made by the Pictou firm.

“It's too bad it had to look like our knife too,” she said. “It's kind of bad enough that [we] lost the contract, but it also looks like our distinctly Canadian design, that was designed by Canadians for Canadians by our company.”

Mr. MacKay said through a spokesman that he is encouraging local Canadian Forces units to buy local when possible. Mr. MacKay's spokesman, Dan Dugas, noted that local units can buy material directly from suppliers without going through Defence HQ if the total cost is less than $5,000.

“[Mr. MacKay] is encouraging them to buy locally because the Grohmann product is an exceptional product made by skilled workers,” said Mr. Dugas in an email.

The spokesman further pointed out that larger contracts must go to the lowest bidder.

“The Department of Public Works has awarded contracts in the past to Canadian companies on big orders, such as Grohmann and other companies, based on who submitted the lowest bid to get value for money, which is the law,” he wrote. 


I am hoping this is not True..  ???


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2008)

What!??

Is she suggesting that the MND should have somehow stepped into the TB federal procurement process to "pull strings" to keep the contract there ...

Is she suggesting that the MND should have somehow kept it there only because it was in his riding ...

Is she suggesting that the people in the riding should vote vote her because she would have somehow "arranged" to keep it there??

Wow. So besides being "green" -- the "Green" party is also pro-political pork barrelling (and here I'd have thunk they'd have a higher ratio of "vegans" in their midst than other parties - guess not).

So that's another party I can cross off my "maybe" list.


----------



## The Bread Guy (16 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Wow. So besides being "green" -- the "Green" party is also pro-political pork barrelling



How unlike any party once they get into power - she's learning quickly, isn't she?   ;D


----------



## Fishbone Jones (16 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> What!??
> 
> Is she suggesting that the MND should have somehow stepped into the TB federal procurement process to "pull strings" to keep the contract there ...
> 
> ...



All about the soundbite. She likely knows the process and procedure, but it's just too easy to be stupid and point. Truth and procedure mean nothing to the Green party candidate, that last week called Canadians stupid. Must be because she was born in Conneticut.

Wiki ( :) has a rather good sense of her direction and 'life experience' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_May


----------



## Nfld Sapper (16 Sep 2008)

tech2002 said:
			
		

> Found this on Global and Mail website
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080916.welxnmayknife0916/BNStory/Front
> 
> 
> ...



If I am not mistaken these are also the very same knives issued to all Combat Engineers too.


----------



## aesop081 (16 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> If I am not mistaken these are also the very same knives issued to all Combat Engineers too.



Also the same aircrew used to get.....the system was full of them for multiple jobs.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (16 Sep 2008)

http://www.grohmannknives.com/pages/r3s.html


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Also the same aircrew used to get.....the system was is full of them for multiple jobs.



There. I feel better now.  ;D


----------



## aesop081 (16 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> There. I feel better now.  ;D



LOL....sorry. We got something new issued.


----------



## HItorMiss (16 Sep 2008)

If the system is full of them how come I don't have one?


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> If the system is full of them how come I don't have one?



You're not entitled to one. Get jumping ...

Now, that was a silly question.


----------



## HItorMiss (16 Sep 2008)

I fill a hard Para posn......


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> I fill a hard Para posn......



Well that's new!!

Go to clothing ...

(Unless of course the scale has changed yet again ... Can confirm for you tomorrow though.)


----------



## aesop081 (16 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> If the system is full of them how come I don't have one?



I dont know.

The system taught you to avoid getting injured so why didnt you ?

 ;D


----------



## riggermade (16 Sep 2008)

Normally issued to JM's not everybody who jumps


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I dont know.
> 
> The system thought you to avoid getting injured so why didnt you ?
> 
> ;D



The system (like me) didn't know he was now employed in an entitled position - our ESP fails us sometimes ... unless they tell us so.  >


Riggermade ... I think it's employed in jump posn now --- that's why I need to check ... and the damned baselined laptop ain't sparking up in my house tonight!! I am avoiding doing lesson plans like the plaque!


----------



## HItorMiss (16 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I dont know.
> 
> The system taught you to avoid getting injured so why didnt you ?
> 
> ;D



I fell asleep in that class, How many time do I have to tell you....  ;D


----------



## McG (16 Sep 2008)

In any case, the contract did not go to a Chinese company.  The bid was won by a distributor in Ontario.



			
				ArmyVern said:
			
		

> (Unless of course the scale has changed yet again ... Can confirm for you tomorrow though.)


While commonly used by Cbt Engr & Paratroops, the knife is not on the scale of issue for either.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (16 Sep 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> In any case, the contract did not go to a Chinese company.  The bid was won by a distributor in Ontario.
> While commonly used by Cbt Engr & Paratroops, the knife is not on the scale of issue for either.



Can you confirm this MCG?


----------



## McG (16 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Can you confirm this MCG?


I can confirm both my statements.  FMAS can confirm the first point, and CFSS can confirm the second.


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Can you confirm this MCG?



I'll check to see exactly which scale it's on tomorrow. If it wasn't on a scale ... it wouldn't be in the system and it wouldn't be locked up in my clothing vault right now because I'd have no one to issue them to. It's on a scale somewhere ... it's the notes to whatever scale it's on that are the important bits of info as to entitlements and which determine who gets what. There are HUGE numbers of different scales.

Much like engineers were not entitled to safety boots on the D01301 scale until trades qualified (now fixed by the way) where every other trade that is entitled to them was listed, but could be issued them under the Personal Protective Equipment scale instead ...


----------



## Nfld Sapper (16 Sep 2008)

MCG: thx

Vern: sorta like the safety boots issue for all 043's right?


----------



## McG (16 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Vern: sorta like the safety boots issue for all 043's right?


That item appears in the Land Operational Clothing Scale.  The knife is not on any Army scale (lots of use by the Air Force though).


----------



## Nfld Sapper (16 Sep 2008)

<points to verns post>  ;D

I see she added the 043 comments after I posted lol


----------



## Fishbone Jones (16 Sep 2008)

Can we get back to taking the piss out of May again please ;D


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> That item appears in the Land Operational Clothing Scale.  The knife is not on any Army scale (lots of use by the Air Force though).



Yes it does.

And until 1 month ago 043 Engineers were not entitled to those safety boots until after they had completed trade and phase training. Doesn't make sense now does it? I've been working a long time to get that fixed on the D01-301 ... and it FINALLY happened ... and come to think of it - I think that NFLD Engineer was sitting in my office with me when they finally notified me they were going to do the scale ammendment to include the 043s.

We worked around that (prior to it's being placed on the CFSD01-301) by issuing them out 1 pair ea based on the Personal Protective Equipment scale and I can't remember that scale off the top of my head, but it's on page two or three (in the MA docs if you've got access right now) ...

Recceguy:

Are you into pork-barrelling? I like them all done up on a big spit. Very good!!


----------



## armyvern (16 Sep 2008)

BulletMagnet said:
			
		

> I fill a hard Para posn......



Tomorrow, go see the QM in the 3rd --- they're holding on the CFFET for you guys.


----------



## Fusaki (17 Sep 2008)

Whats the big deal about these knives, anyways? How are they any better then any other knife? I see them all the time, but I always figured getting one was a new guy thing.

Or maybe it's an Airborne thing.... _I just wouldn't understand..._


----------



## armyvern (17 Sep 2008)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> Whats the big deal about these knives, anyways? How are they any better then any other knife? I see them all the time, but I always figured getting one was a new guy thing.
> 
> *Or maybe it's an Airborne thing*.... _I just wouldn't understand..._



Well, thank you for bringing it back on topic ...  

Of course it is!! Here it is from the original article.  8)



			
				tech2002 said:
			
		

> Found this on Global and Mail website
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080916.welxnmayknife0916/BNStory/Front
> ...
> 
> ...


----------



## HItorMiss (17 Sep 2008)

*AIRBORNE!*


----------



## Loachman (17 Sep 2008)

I've got one buried away in a box, somewhere. It's been there since I tried to use it on my survival course decades ago.

I never liked them, and could not understand why anybody would. The handle offered no grip when wet or muddy, and lacked a guard. I like my fingers too much to risk on something like that. The blade would not hold an edge, but perhaps the steel has improved since mine was made. The shape of the blade, its cross-section, and its size rendered it useless for anything that I tried to use it for on that course, which also taught me to hate the C5 pocket knife.

I have a much better knife on my survival vest.


----------



## axeman (17 Sep 2008)

after all my experiance around JM Load Masters Riggers  I generally see them use some other knife.  One of the most commom is a rescue type knife .  flat safety nose and razor sharp else where easy grip handle  not this mishapen steak knife .  Ive  got one tucked away somewhere and  prefer my Spyderco.


----------



## Zoomie (17 Sep 2008)

The Airforce dumped the Russell belt knife a couple of years ago for the "Made in Germany" PRT-X rescue tool.


----------



## tankie (17 Sep 2008)

I too have my fathers Russell knife from the early '60s on a plinth on my desk.  When i was teaching at ATR(W) I tried a variety of knives (sykes-fairbairn (also my pop's 41CDO), gerber, issue machette, and some of the "respected" survival knives) I recomend getting a hold of a kukri, heavy solid knife with a wide chord for the first 7" (tip to bend) enabling good chopping and a normal 1 1/2" chord for the remainder 5" for the finer stuff, comfy pommel.  The bad points is the 2 smaller utility knives, take them out and leave them in your drawer!


----------



## George Wallace (17 Sep 2008)

Perhaps the Green party under Liz May are all for bringing back the Airborne Regt so that we will need a larger number of these knives to be purchased to cut risers and such.   ;D


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (17 Sep 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> That item appears in the Land Operational Clothing Scale.  The knife is not on any Army scale (lots of use by the Air Force though).



used on ships as well...personally I am not a fan of it as it never holds an edge


----------



## riggermade (17 Sep 2008)

I too was never a fan....dulled to quickly for me


----------



## Nfld Sapper (17 Sep 2008)

Same here


----------



## Snafu-Bar (17 Sep 2008)

Sounds like a cheap heat treat process...


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (17 Sep 2008)

I always thought the idea was for Canada to get its equipment from the lowest bidder...now we are Ms May is upset? Ummm ok that makes sense, we get in trouble if we spend too much money on equipment and then we get in trouble when we go looking for a deal.

Politics makes a lot of sense. :


----------



## Nfld Sapper (17 Sep 2008)

Snafu-Bar said:
			
		

> Sounds like a cheap heat treat process...



Well its a non-sparking knife if that has anything to do with it  :-\


----------



## McG (17 Sep 2008)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> used on ships as well...


Yep.  They're on the quite a few MASTin large numbers.  Coincidentally, when sold commercially the knife is called the Russel Boat Knife.

I like the knife.  It's not great for cuttings ropes or textiles.  However, it works great on tape, time fuse and det cord.  It is also the best knife I've used for cutting C4 blocks.  The multi-tool blades are relatively small and the weight is imbalanced into the handle.  So the knife does what I need it for.


----------



## McG (17 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Well its a non-sparking knife if that has anything to do with it  :-\


Maybe, but that is not specifically stated in the specification.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (17 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Well its a non-sparking knife if that has anything to do with it  :-\



It's made of carbon steel, how can it be non sparking? You want a non sparking tool, you make it out of brass.


----------



## davidk (17 Sep 2008)

As an aside, I found it amusing to read, 


> “My next thought was what kind of other shoddy non-Canadian goods are being purchased for our soldiers in cost-cutting measures?" said Ms. May's statement.



Maybe she should be examining what shoddy Canadian goods are being purchased...*cough*tac vest*cough


----------



## Michael OLeary (17 Sep 2008)

HighlandIslander said:
			
		

> As an aside, I found it amusing to read,
> Maybe she should be examining what shoddy Canadian goods are being purchased...*cough*tac vest*cough



As a warning to all - do not turn this into another tac vest thread, go to that thread if you want to expand on that point.

Army.ca Staff


----------



## davidk (17 Sep 2008)

My apologies. I just had to sit through two hours of class listening to NDP and Green speeches....a lot of misplaced hostility on my part.


----------



## armyvern (17 Sep 2008)

HighlandIslander said:
			
		

> My apologies. I just had to sit through two hours of class listening to NDP and Green speeches....a lot of misplaced hostility on my part.



So, when are the Liberals and the Conservatives being invited into your class?


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (17 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Well its a non-sparking knife if that has anything to do with it  :-\



Maybe good for cutting butter or C4? Had an option of getting one issued, never bothered (Zero Tolerance 0200ST all the way)

Politics, votes and kit do not a happy soldier make (SLVW, anyone?)


----------



## davidk (17 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> So, when are the Liberals and the Conservatives being invited into your class?


Last week. We get the Bloc next Wednesday.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (17 Sep 2008)

Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
			
		

> Maybe good for cutting butter or C4? Had an option of getting one issued, never bothered (Zero Tolerance 0200ST all the way)
> 
> Politics, votes and kit do not a happy soldier make (*SLVW*, anyone?)



LSVW?


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (17 Sep 2008)

Ooops. Tired, I guess. At least got the correct letters in there. What an abomination.


----------



## armyvern (17 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> LSVW?



SLVW - Supremely Lacking Vehicle Wheeled? 

Works for me.


----------



## geo (17 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> If I am not mistaken these are also the very same knives issued to all Combat Engineers too.



Not the Gerber.... the "Russell boat knife"


----------



## Kat Stevens (17 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Well its a non-sparking knife if that has anything to do with it  :-\


 :rofl:


----------



## Nfld Sapper (17 Sep 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Not the Gerber.... the "Russell boat knife"



Think I know the different between them geo    ;D


----------



## geo (17 Sep 2008)

Just checking.... the Russel Boat Knife is pert much an antique by now... 8)


----------



## Nfld Sapper (17 Sep 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Just checking.... the Russel Boat Knife is pert much an antique by now... 8)



But still issued.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (17 Sep 2008)

Grohmann Knives #3 Boat Knife, Canadian Armed Forces, or Yachtsman Design website.

The company refers to the knife as the "CAF", I've heard it called the belt knife, FE, and JM.

I have one of these;  I find it keeps a good edge, and suited my needs as a general-purpose knife in the field, and I use it now primarily for hiking/outdoors.  I wished many times the handle had a checkered design cut into it.  I also had to get rivets punched into the loop on the sheath as the stitching always seemed to start to let go when wet and worn on my belt under my webbing.  I opted to hook it onto a belt loop with a small carabiner, letting it move more freely and it wasn't such a PITA to get at (was lower than the webbing belt).

As for the Green Party leaders comments about this, she is attempting to get votes in the riding she is running in.  Strategically its smart as Joe and Jane Taxpayer don't know (or care, if they lost their job lets say) about the TB policy(s).  I think its just as tasteless and "head shaking" as many other things I see during times such as these.

its too bad the Conservaties don't come back with comments such as the ones AV said initially in this thread.

If Minister MacKay WOULD have intervened...someone else would be jumping all over that; he did nothing wrong, but would have if he would have 'used his influence'.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (17 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> SLVW - Supremely Lacking Vehicle Wheeled?
> 
> Works for me.



The S usually stands for shi**y in my books


----------



## Eye In The Sky (17 Sep 2008)

I think the #1 Yachtsmen knife version is issued to Bosun's and the like in the Navy...is it not?  I've known 1 Bosun who had it issued to them.  I remembering asking "wtf is the big needle for?"  ;D


----------



## Nfld Sapper (17 Sep 2008)

I know the guys out in Trail (44 FES or what ever the flavour of the day is) got those issued but only to those that had completed the BBE Course


----------



## armyvern (17 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I think the #1 Yachtsmen knife version is issued to Bosun's and the like in the Navy...is it not?  I've known 1 Bosun who had it issued to them.  I remembering asking "wtf is the big needle for?"  ;D



They're held on the Ship's MAST (kind of akin to the Army's CFFET) account.


----------



## aesop081 (17 Sep 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> got those issued but only to those that had completed the BBE Course



I was the course NCO for 2 of those people.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (17 Sep 2008)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> I think the #1 Yachtsmen knife version is issued to Bosun's and the like in the Navy...is it not?  I've known 1 Bosun who had it issued to them.  I remembering asking "wtf is the big needle for?"  ;D



Issued or bought depends on the ship. That "needle" is called a marlin spike and at times its a piece of crucial safety equipment. Nothing at all to mock!


----------



## Eye In The Sky (17 Sep 2008)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Issued or bought depends on the ship. That "needle" is called a marlin spike and at times its a piece of crucial safety equipment. *Nothing at all to mock*!



Ex-D...it was a joke between friends, and I got mine back for it


----------



## SprCForr (17 Sep 2008)

Everybody and their dog had one in 1CER, the Tp get's attached to the Bn for a tour and guess what the Coy gift was?


----------



## McG (18 Sep 2008)

It is interesting that Grohmann claims to have recieved several complaints about the other knife yet there has not been a single UCR submitted.  I'm not saying it has not happened, just that I find it odd that service personel would complain directly to a manufacture in large numbers while at the same time not a single one would make the effort to formally complain to the military.


----------



## geo (18 Sep 2008)

I found it wasn't a bad knife.
Not a great knife - but not a bad one either.
- Kept a reasonnable edge to the blade BUT, then again, I got mine +/- 1973 when the Russell boat knife was made by the "Russell" company


----------



## SprCForr (18 Sep 2008)

I suspect that it was the same for the C5. It was on the fighting order and there it stayed as it was easier to use a personal pocket knife. 

I'm suprised that nobody bothered to fill out a UCR given all the complaints!


----------



## Loachman (18 Sep 2008)

MCG said:
			
		

> not a single one would make the effort to formally complain to the military.



Why - just to be told that they're "not using it properly"?

Seriously, though, most people have come to believe that UCRs are a waste of time based upon how long it takes to see results ... if ever.


----------



## the 48th regulator (20 Sep 2008)

Stabbed in the back  
Pictou firm loses military contract to Chinese copies
By MONICA GRAHAM
Wed. Sep 17 - 1:54 PM







Michelle Jamieson, co-owner of Grohmann Knives in Pictou, holds a knife that was supplied to the Canadian Armed Forces until the government decided to buy cheaper ones made in China. (MONICA GRAHAM)

PICTOU — It’s bad enough that a company in the defence minister’s home riding of Central Nova has lost a contract to supply knives to Canadian Forces paratroopers. 

But to add insult to injury, some people who now have the knock-off knives have been calling Grohmann Knives Ltd. in Pictou to complain about their quality, said company co-owner Michelle Jamieson.


"It’s poor workmanship, it’s terrible, it’s crappy," Ms. Jamieson quoted the callers as saying.

She said the callers are also concerned about whether the knives are safe. But neither Ms. Jamieson nor the company’s co-owner, Mike Babinec Jr., who is also her father, have seen the knock-offs. 

"We’ve been told it looks very similar to our knife," she said.

Ms. Jamieson said Grohmann has put a disclaimer on its website in response to the complaints.

She said she has been told the knock-off has the word valour stamped on it and it is labelled Made in China. 

The No. 3 model of the D.H. Russell belt knife, designed by Deane Russell and Rudolph Grohmann in the 1950s, was supplied to the Canadian Armed Forces from 1964 to 2006. 

It was issued to paratroopers, who used it for cutting their parachute harnesses during dangerous landings in water or when they became entangled. 

Two years ago, Ottawa opted to buy army-issue knives from Gear Up Motors, which offered to supply 2,400 knives at a cost of $40 each. 

Stanley Pioro of Richmond, Ont., owns the company.

Any national bid on a contract worth about $100,000 or more must go to tender, and Mr. Pioro was able to offer a comparable product for a lower price, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

The Armed Forces has received no complaints about the Pioro knife, Mr. MacKay said. 

"Surely someone isn’t suggesting that I rig the procurement process in favour of a local contractor," the defence minister said, insisting that he would not do that.

Mr. MacKay said he has not seen the Pioro knife and did not know where it was made, but he owns a Grohmann-made Russell belt knife himself and frequently buys them as gifts. 

The knife, made of German steel, retails for about $90, but Grohmann offered a significant discount for buying in bulk, Ms. Jamieson said.

The company supplied up to 6,000 knives a year to the Canadian Armed Forces over the last few decades. It continues to fill smaller orders for the Canadian Coast Guard and other military branches. 

Mr. Babinec spoke with Mr. MacKay and Gen. Rick Hillier about the issue when they toured the Water Street factory in June. But Ms. Jamieson said company officials didn’t receive a reply until Mr. MacKay contacted Mr. Babinec on Tuesday to describe the procurement process. 

Meanwhile, his father, Mike Babinec Sr., again mentioned the problem during a factory tour earlier this week by Green Party Leader Elizabeth May, who is opposing Mr. MacKay for the Central Nova seat.

Ms. May said she was shocked that the government had ignored Grohmann’s reputation for quality and reliability and awarded the contract based solely on cost. 

"My next thought was what kind of other shoddy non-Canadian goods are being purchased for our soldiers in cost-cutting measures?" Ms. May said in a news release Tuesday.

She said there appears to be a bias against contract bids submitted from Atlantic Canada. Ms. May noted that a submarine retrofit contract also went to British Columbia. 

Grohmann has not followed up on copyright or patent infringement issues, Ms. Jamieson said.

She said she is upset that someone could make cheaper knock-offs of the company’s knives and then sell them to one of the firm’s major clients. 

"It was designed by Canadians for Canadians," she said.

Ms. Jamieson said she would like to see steps taken to help Canadian manufacturers win contracts like the one her company lost.

Such measures would ensure that local people keep their jobs and that the government receives quality products, she said.

"We have a quality product," Ms. Jamieson said.

Mr. MacKay said he always supports local industry, but many Canadian products have components from China.

Grohmann was founded by Ms. Jamieson’s great-grandfather in 1961. 

Rudolph Grohmann went to Pictou from a German area of Czechoslovakia in 1949 to work at a cutlery company.

When it folded, Mr. Grohmann started making knives in his garage, winning international awards in the ensuing years. The company employs about 25 people who make outdoor, kitchen and specialty knives.



			
				MCG said:
			
		

> In any case, the contract did not go to a Chinese company.  The bid was won by a distributor in Ontario.





Information on the new supplier and the knife;

Gear Up Motors
http://www.maxus.ca/index.htm

Mr. Stan Pioro
Owner/Sales
Gear Up Motors
3463 McBean Street
P.O. Box 854
Richmond, Ontario
K0A 2Z0

His company can be found on the www.made-in-china.com vendor index.

http://www.made-in-china.com/import-export/YWExITfPWQLeprofile1/Gear-Up-Motors.html

Which is how the made in China disclaimer is from, by MAXUS, when actuality they are made by a company called Sanyo Enterprises based out of Pakistan.

http://www.sanyoenter.com/

He is an exclusive dealer for Sanyo Enterprises products that claims the following

http://www.sanyoenter.com/about.htm

_________________________

There you have it members of milnet.  I have a passion for knives, swords and various period pieces.  I can tell you that Pakistan is a major manufacturer of these types of products.  The quality ranges from very good to poor.  I have purchased some fine Damascus metal from Pakistan that I use when making knives, for a good investment, to the crapiest that bends like lead and is only "painted" to look like damascus steel.

It appears the Government has done just that.  I did not do a search of the knife Canada has procured, as I do not know what it looks like, however, I am sure they did not go after quality.  They went after quantity.

Further to that, Sanyo Enterprises makes helmets.  One of which is a horned “Viking” Norse style helmet.  They never historically existed, for the fact Horns in that matter would be a hindrance in battle, specifically the shield wall.  (I know, I am a geek)

I love my Grohmann knives.  Every one of them served me well.  The soft steel , was something as an amateur, I thought was annoying.  The reason for this is that it allows you to do all sorts of work, and be able to sharpen the blade easily in any condition and get a razor sharp edge.  Harder steel requires professional, or knowledgeable sharpeners to get their edge back.  You would be able to use any Grohmann, beat it up, and after a some quiet time be able to get a sharp edge with ease.

The Swiss went through the same capitalist bidding war growing pains,  it is a shame we were not able to do what they did and keep an icon of the Canadian Military, Canadian.  I think Elizabeth May is bang on in attcking this one.





dileas

tess


----------



## armyvern (20 Sep 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Stabbed in the back
> Two years ago, Ottawa opted to buy army-issue knives from Gear Up Motors, which offered to supply 2,400 knives at a cost of $40 each.
> 
> Stanley Pioro of Richmond, Ont., owns the company.
> ...



There is a contract awarded to Gear Up Motors.



> "Surely someone isn’t suggesting that I rig the procurement process in favour of a local contractor," the defence minister said, insisting that he would not do that.



Has he been visiting this site and stealing my lines??  >



> The knife, made of German steel, retails for about $90, but Grohmann offered a significant discount for buying in bulk, Ms. Jamieson said.



Apparently, not enough of a bulk discount to make them any cheaper than the company who did win the contract.



> The company supplied up to 6,000 knives a year to the Canadian Armed Forces over the last few decades. *It continues to fill smaller orders * for the Canadian Coast Guard *and other military branches.*



What!!?? This would be highly illegal. If there is a National Contract in place, then ALL CF military Units (even small ones) are legally obligated to obtain their knives from the Contracted supplier ... that means, in this case, Gear Up Motors. I wouldn't want to be the one whose Acquisition Card is being used to purchase from a non-contracted supplier. I do so hope that she means ... from "other military branches OUTSIDE of the Canadian Forces."



> Ms. May said she was shocked that the government had ignored Grohmann’s reputation for quality and reliability and awarded the contract based solely on cost.
> 
> "My next thought was what kind of other shoddy non-Canadian goods are being purchased for our soldiers in cost-cutting measures?" Ms. May said in a news release Tuesday.



Bull. The company awarded the contract *MUST* have complied with the milspecs. The awarding of contracts is NOT based soley on price. 



> She said there appears to be a bias against contract bids submitted from Atlantic Canada. Ms. May noted that a submarine retrofit contract also went to British Columbia.



Wow. Between Atlantic Canada and Quebec ... I don't think anyone should feel "neglected" in the way of federal contracts.  :



> Ms. Jamieson said she would like to see steps taken to help Canadian manufacturers win contracts like the one her company lost.
> 
> Such measures would ensure that local people keep their jobs and that the government receives quality products, she said.
> 
> "We have a quality product," Ms. Jamieson said.



She really means "her" company.


----------



## the 48th regulator (20 Sep 2008)

Vern,

I will say this.

Being someone, on the civillian side, who has worked on winning government contratcts, it is all about the dollar.

If you meet the specs, and are lower, you win.

Don't confuse driving the spec, with chasing it, please.

dileas

tess


----------



## armyvern (20 Sep 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Vern,
> 
> I will say this.
> 
> ...



I'm not confusing it.

But you can rest assured that she is well aware of how contracts work ... Her Company having been the benficiary of such for many years. She is well aware of the bold bit of your statement (my bold added - this time --- it wasn't her that was the "winner").

Read her statements as she now plays "poor me" with the politicians --- and plays "naive" as to the working of contracts and Mil Specs.

Certainly sounds like whining to me. Funny how that works during election time isn't it?


----------



## the 48th regulator (20 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> I'm not confusing it.
> 
> But you can rest assured that she is well aware of how contracts work ... Her Company having been the benficiary of such for many years. She is well aware of the bold bit of your statement (my bold added - this time --- it wasn't her that was the "winner").
> 
> ...



Fair enough,

Do you think the Government did well in purchasing offshore copies, as opposed to looking for an improved model by another manufacturer?

dileas

tess


----------



## aesop081 (20 Sep 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> , as opposed to looking for an improved model by another manufacturer?



If another manufacturer could provide the knives that both met the specs and at a lower cost than the ones purchased, they should have bid on the contract.


----------



## the 48th regulator (20 Sep 2008)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> If another manufacturer could provide the knives that both met the specs and at a lower cost than the ones purchased, they should have bid on the contract.



Actually, as one working in sales, I agree.

Well, I hope it meets the expectations of the knife we have used for ver 40 years.  Good on Stanley Pioro and his company, Gear Up Motors, for playing the game as I would have.

I am glad that our soldiers appreciate cheeper procurment, as opposed traditional product.

dileas

tess


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Actually, as one working in sales, I agree.
> 
> Well, I hope it meets the expectations of the knife we have used for ver 40 years.  Good on Stanley Pioro and his company, Gear Up Motors, for playing the game as I would have.
> 
> ...



I can certainly appreciate that the new contracted knife meets the milspecs and allows us to put budget monies saved by getting an item that conforms with and meets milspecs at a lower price towards other things that are required (chest rigs etc). She may not like the fact that her company lost the contract, but "tradition" has nothing to do with contracts and seems to be OK to be done away with in other things 'military' and is deemed acceptable by some no?

And from the article:



> The No. 3 model of the D.H. Russell belt knife, designed by Deane Russell and Rudolph Grohmann in the 1950s, was supplied to the Canadian Armed Forces from 1964 to *2006*.



I can also appreciate the fact that she is suddenly coming out with her "woe is me tale" *TWO* years after losing the contract. During an election campaign. I smell a WHOLE LOT of bias built into that little tidbit. 

Being she's had contracts before and fully knows and understands how the process works - despite her outright protestations otherwise  : - she knows full well that her whining is not going to put the contract back into her hands (unless of course she actually "wins" the next time that contract's due instead of "loses") but it sure is making a good political statement isn't it? And, if you're naive enough to think for one minute her sudden "naivetee (read dishonesty) about contracts" and "timing" are not all about politics and votes ... 

I've got a knife I made here at home to sell you. Cheap too. You'd love it. It comes in Green - certified IAW VernSpecs.


----------



## the 48th regulator (21 Sep 2008)

Being in supply I thought you would understand the shipment of goods.

2006 might have been the last shipment, however who knows if the contract stipulated the inventory amount.....i.e each shipment of goods provided to the CF will be every 1...2....3 years supply worth.

I doubt that each knife was individually sold to the military, as per the demand to to issue....

dileas

tess


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Being in supply I thought you would understand the shipment of goods.
> 
> 2006 might have been the last shipment, however who knows if the contract stipulated the inventory amount.....i.e each shipment of goods provided to the CF will be every 1...2....3 years supply worth.
> 
> ...



Her contracted expired in 2006 (she says in the article her contract expired 2 years ago). Up to 6000 knives per year (in bulk shipments) - until contract expiry (she says in the article she supplied the knives "up to 6000 of them/year" until 2006). 

Contract expired - supplying is overwith. New contract awarded ... new shipments from new contractor begun.


----------



## the 48th regulator (21 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Her contracted expired in 2006. 6000 knives per year (in bulk shipments) - until expirey.
> 
> Contract expired - supplying is overwith. New contract awarded ... new shipments from new contractor begun.



When did the bid go out?  before or after 2006?

dileas

tess


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> When did the bid go out?  before or after 2006?
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



Also from the article (her own words again ...)



> Two years ago, Ottawa opted to buy army-issue knives from Gear Up Motors, which offered to supply 2,400 knives at a cost of $40 each.



"Opted to buy" ... ie "Awarded a contract to a lower bidder who met milspecs".


----------



## the 48th regulator (21 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Also from the article (her own words again ...)
> 
> 
> "Opted to buy" ... ie "Awarded a contract to a lower bidder who met milspecs".



Hmm,

Interesting, well as long as the new ones have made the transition for the troops with no set backs, then I guess it was a good procurment.

By bad, I guess I let my passion get in the way of good sense, yet again.

dileas

tess


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Hmm,
> 
> Interesting, well as long as the new ones have made the transition for the troops with no set backs, then I guess it was a good procurment.
> 
> ...



Only because you like knives!   

Now ... about the knife that I mentioned I had made for you at the end of this post  ... what's it worth to 'ya?  >


----------



## the 48th regulator (21 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Only because you like knives!
> 
> Now ... about the knife that I mentioned I had made for you at the end of this post  ... what's it worth to 'ya?  >



What's it look like?

dileas

tess

 :-*


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

Green foil (it matches my helmet!!).

It's awesome if you ask me.  ;D


----------



## TCBF (21 Sep 2008)

- I seem to recall that waaay back the preferred knife for Jumpmasters was the Russell BOAT Knife.  It's intended purpose was to cut the static line of a 'hung up' jumper who would have had one or both hands on his helmet, proving he was concious.  If he was not concious, he would have been retrieved - it being considered poor form to cut away an unconcious jumper.  I believe the drill was later amended to retrieve ALL hung-up jumpers.

- In any case, I am bemused by comments in reference to a mere jumper cutting his harness or shroud lines. Such an act may have resulted in a short ride south from CABC to the CFSP&DB.  The only cutting needed should have been the 80lb test cord around the rifle and snowshoes (and for my fellow dinosoars - cutting the folded Sub-Machine Gun, 9mm, C1 from the frame of the Rucksack, Universal, C2).


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> Sub-Machine Gun, 9mm, C1 from the frame of the Rucksack, Universal, C2



HOT!!

Talking backwards like a Sup Tech!


----------



## the 48th regulator (21 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Green foil.
> 
> It's awesome if you ask me.  ;D









All we need now, is to find a third for our triumvirate!

dileas

tess


----------



## daftandbarmy (21 Sep 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - In any case, I am bemused by comments in reference to a mere jumper cutting his harness or shroud lines. Such an act may have resulted in a short ride south from CABC to the CFSP&DB.  The only cutting needed should have been the 80lb test cord around the rifle and snowshoes (and for my fellow dinosoars - cutting the folded Sub-Machine Gun, 9mm, C1 from the frame of the Rucksack, Universal, C2).



Or for 'doing yourself in' if your parachute came off the DZ without the flyer's kit bag, and you heard that the CQ was headed your way.
 ;D


----------



## Old and Tired (21 Sep 2008)

“My next thought was what kind of other shoddy non-Canadian goods are being purchased for our soldiers in cost-cutting measures?" said Ms. May's statement.

As opposed to shoddy Canadian made goods being purchased as cost-cutting measures.  I was issued one of the belt knives in '81 during Basic Para, then again in '87.  They make nice conversation pieces but I don't think I actually used it for its intended purpose.  Just not practical, or safe to use.


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

Old and Tired said:
			
		

> “My next thought was what kind of other shoddy non-Canadian goods are being purchased for our soldiers in cost-cutting measures?" said Ms. May's statement.



How about a WHOLE hockey-sock full of footwear that soldiers detest and that injures or hurts them ... because we must purchase "Canadian" ... so "Canadian Companys/Suppliers" have ZERO incentive to change squat because they know we've got to buy from Canadian Company.

Seems to me she was taken by surprise that another Canadian Company bid on a contract to provide something she thought she had all wrapped up and in the bag.


----------



## medaid (21 Sep 2008)

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. The ONLY thing the majority of Canadian companies are good at it seems are the ability to whine, b***h, and moan about NOT getting a contract. I have NEVER heard of them saying "Oh SH*T we really f*cked up on that last product/design, so much so that people are getting injured! F*ck me! We better change something and let the CF know!" No, instead, this is probably what they're saying "Oh fack us! Thank goodness that we're only supplying this to the CF! If this was the civilian market we'd get sued out of our a$$e$ and then forced to foreclose! Good thing the CF is filled with a bunch of idiots *snicker*" 
Sure that may have been a little harsh, but hey, frack me am I tired of constant complaining from these people! 

Come on! Why do you think the best boot makers don't come from Canada? Well because of our constant Crown protection of these idiots! If we were anything like the States, we ALLOW for competition, and as fierce as they can be! Look at how many boot makers there are? Altima, Puma, Adidas, Danner, Corcoran, 5.11, Oakley need I say more? They come out with NEW and IMPROVED footwear almost every single year! What does our boot makers do? Oh... MkI... Whooppee! MkII... Wow big step forward! MkIII yay the epitome of CANADIAN military clothing technology!

I mean PLEASE, stop moaning and start MAKING. Start thinking why many soldiers don't wear issued gear? One simple answer, made in CANADA. Crap. 

The end.

Crap.

We don't have healthy competition up here. There is no will or desire to advance because the crappy specs and designs provided by the CF results in crappy gear to end with. 

In the States, company makes a ground breaking advance in Gear, goes to DoD procurement and says "look here sirs/ma'ms, we got product X, what do you think?"

DoD procurement "Hmm that's interesting, we need to bring this to testing, with your company's help and expertise. Here's a few mil to help kick start the project."

Up HERE, company goes to DND/TB "Look here sirs/ma'ms, we've got product X!"

DND/TB "well... Why do we need X when we have W?"

Company "well because X is way more advanced then W and it does everything X does and more!"

DND/TB "well... Why do we need X when we have W?"

Company ".... Because it will benefit the troops! It's light weight/warm/cool/frag and ballistic protection/ what ever the reason"

DND/TB "so... Why do
We need X when we already have W?"

Even if it be some MIRACLE that it goes through, the next questions usually are "how much? Do you mind if we get a group to work on this without your input? Did I mention that it's a group that has absolutely no clue what this product does, and how it's supposed to work? Mind if we make changes to this and not consult you about it, then we say no to your design, patten our own crappy changes and issue it anyways?"

Man, I know the last part is not what happens... It may not even be close! But in my mind that's what happens everytime I think about bidding on a contract. That's what I'm affraid of, and in the end I don't even freaking bother because I KNOW that no matter how freaking innovative my designs are gonna be, it won't matter frack all.

I might as well take my ball, go home, and sit down. Turn on the T.V, pop in a DVD and make a steak. Or I can take my ball and go play with the big boys down the street, who are more open minded and willing to play with my ball then my supposed friends in this neighbourhood.

Anyways.... That's just me, my opinion on Canadian businesses and Crown protection practices. Relying souly on government contracts is a huge mistake. Just look at the unamed company that closed not too long ago. No contract anymore. Company gone. It's sad... But hey, in a realm with no competition, the cheapest and least crappy looking thing wins, I guess government bids are just useless. 

Definition of insanity: To do the same thing over and over again, but always expecting a different out come."

We ARE insane.


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

LMAO. Go have a beer now. Relax, enjoy your day!!


----------



## medaid (21 Sep 2008)

I can't Vern, I'm stuck trying to catch the naughty types of our society again ;D.

But honestly, the people who suffer the most from the aforementioned rant aren't the companies, it's everyone of us who end up wearing/using/driving/cleaning or what ever that piece of crap. 

We few, oh loyal few, we band of Canadian Soldiers/Sailors/Air Crew.


----------



## the 48th regulator (21 Sep 2008)

Anyone have any details on the new knife?

I would like to get my hands on one, and would like the order the correct piece from the new Vendor.

dileas

tess


----------



## AJFitzpatrick (21 Sep 2008)

This is going to keep on going.

Story about the new supplier's website below
http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n092114A


----------



## Occam (21 Sep 2008)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> This is going to keep on going.
> 
> Story about the new supplier's website below
> http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n092114A



I would say this guy's chances of ever getting another federal contract can be quantified as slim and none.


----------



## cdn031 (21 Sep 2008)

I always thought of the Grohmann Boat knife as being best used in the national boat, a Canoe.
They make supurb canoe tripping knives - easy to sharpen in the field, great for preparing a nice stew, and comes with that beautiful leather sheath that hangs well and does not get caught up. Perfect for my purposes. 

However, it never struck me as a aggressive, military purpose utility blade...


----------



## Farmboy (21 Sep 2008)

> How about a WHOLE hockey-sock full of footwear that soldiers detest and that injures or hurts them ... because we must purchase "Canadian" ... so "Canadian Companys/Suppliers" have ZERO incentive to change squat because they know we've got to buy from Canadian Company.



 Wasn't there a comment in one of the boot threads that mentioned that DND gives the company the last for making the boots?

Hard for a company to be innovative about footwear if they are told what to make.


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

Farmboy said:
			
		

> Wasn't there a comment in one of the boot threads that mentioned that DND gives the company the last for making the boots?
> 
> Hard for a company to be innovative about footwear if they are told what to make.



The company that has the contract for custom-moulded footwear has the last --- for the custom combat boots, parade boots, oxfords etc that are made for pers.

Just as we at clothing stores had the mould to mold those pers' feet with. Once molded for those pers' feet --- it goes to the contracted supplier of those customs boots and stays with them ... for the next time that pers needs footwear made.


----------



## Farmboy (21 Sep 2008)

> The manufacturers of nationally procured CF footwear have to buy and use the DND 601 lasts to build their footwear.



 This post was by Ecco.  But it applies only to custom boots?


 Anyway to the topic at hand, the new company and knife met the specs and bid the lowest, so they win, plain and simple.

As said on other subjects like this, we suppliers either get the specs written for our product, or source and provide a great price for the product needed.


----------



## armyvern (21 Sep 2008)

Farmboy said:
			
		

> Anyway to the topic at hand, the new company and knife met the specs and bid the lowest, so they win, plain and simple.
> 
> As said on other subjects like this, we suppliers either get the specs written for our product, or source and provide a great price for the product needed.



And that is it in a nutshell. A lesson she learned two years ago. This complaint is purely "politiking" at its very best. It's election time - go figure.


----------



## daftandbarmy (22 Sep 2008)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> How about a WHOLE hockey-sock full of footwear that soldiers detest and that injures or hurts them ... because we must purchase "Canadian" ... so "Canadian Companys/Suppliers" have ZERO incentive to change squat because they know we've got to buy from Canadian Company.



Amen. I'm still limping around as a result of wearing those crummy MkIII replacements on a BFT last week. I wish I could mail them (the palm-sized blisters) to the defence minister and the CDS right now. Oh, wait a minute, it looks like I can at least send them a couple of toenails each.


----------



## Strike (22 Sep 2008)

Posted with the usual caveates.



> SOURCETAG     08092233535240
> PUBLICATION:  The Ottawa Sun
> DATE:         2008.09.22
> EDITION:      Final
> ...


----------



## xena (22 Sep 2008)

[Dr Evil voice on] Why must we be surrounded by frickin' idiots? [/Dr Evil voice]

Why are some people so dumb that they think doing and saying stuff like this helps?  Not to mention the considerable insult to serving muslims in our own forces.  Eejits.  

Aaaargh!  I'm too frustrated by this...  must stop typing...


----------



## RHFC_piper (22 Sep 2008)

xena said:
			
		

> [Dr Evil voice on] Why must we be surrounded by frickin' idiots? [/Dr Evil voice]
> 
> Why are some people so dumb that they think doing and saying stuff like this helps?  Not to mention the considerable insult to serving muslims in our own forces.  Eejits.
> 
> Aaaargh!  I'm too frustrated by this...  must stop typing...



Besides the obvious insulting nature of the comments, I believe they also demonstrate the common ignorance the general public has about the mission; we're not fighting the people of Afghanistan, we're trying to help them... And the people we engage with in battle come from both within and outside the population... so the statement is insulting both those we fight and defend, as they're generally all Muslim.  This just perpetuates the uniformed concept that we are there to fight Afghanistan... which leads to the misconception that we're invading to occupy.  People who believe this, and spew these sayings need to do a little research into the mission instead of painting it with the broad brush of "war".

I agree with MP Scott Brison; these sentiments do nothing but harm the CF members, both at home and abroad, as well as the mission, by lumping us all into a stereotype based on ignorance.  Even though it's a private company, free to post what every they want, by associating themselves with the CF and posting such views, they damage the public image of the CF.. I believe that is known as libel.

Since the CF and the government really can't do anything administratively about the issue, the simplest solution would seem to be disassociation...  which also harms the CF since this company is a supplyer of kit... 

This is, indeed, very frustrating.


----------



## xena (22 Sep 2008)

Thank you RHFC_piper for a well-spoken and thoughtful response.  Much better than my initial ramblings.  I shall endeavour to be quiet more and let you post before I just vent my spleen.


----------



## Greymatters (22 Sep 2008)

Unfortunately, once you do business with a company you cant really keep them from saying they worked with you, unless you have some sort of nondisclosure agreement in place...


----------



## Jarnhamar (22 Sep 2008)

Man I hope no one looks inside the blue rockets or bathroom stalls..


----------



## MG34 (22 Sep 2008)

Must have been a slow news day..this drivel is not news.


----------



## TCBF (22 Sep 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Man I hope no one looks inside the blue rockets or bathroom stalls..



- You can bet the Press will after reading what you just wrote.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Sep 2008)

TCBF said:
			
		

> - You can bet the Press will after reading what you just wrote.



...and then lock 'em in.


----------



## Hot Lips (22 Sep 2008)

Can we tip them over to Bruce??  

Very unfortunate to see these types of comments...some of the Tories seem to be using enough of these types of comments in their campaigns though...wonder which one of the opposition parties spent the time to dig that up... :...

HL


----------



## TCBF (22 Sep 2008)

Hot Lips said:
			
		

> ...some of the Tories seem to be using enough of these types of comments in their campaigns though...



- Who?


----------



## IntlBr (22 Sep 2008)

This isn't going to be good for business.

What kind of backwards nutjob would put that stuff up on his/her company's website without expecting massive backlash?  That sort of jingoistic bunk was appropriate in a different day and age and is most certainly not appropriate now, and as already stated, entirely ignorant of the situation we face in Afghanistan itself.

Someone needs to give their head a shake.


----------



## Strike (22 Sep 2008)

The web site:

http://www.maxus.ca/

And a quote from it:



> Response to media attacks on me by Joan Bryden et al:
> 
> The media has portrayed me as a rascist, and states that I have insulted Muslims. Not true. I have never made any comments about Muslims or the Muslim Faith. It is obvious to anyone that viewed this site, that my comments and jokes were directed at Insurgents, specifically those that have declared Jihad on the West, and the type of people that flew 747's into the World Trade Center - the type of people that to this day deliberately kill innocent men, women and children, of all faiths, indiscriminately, with car bombs and suicide attacks. These are the cowards that plant roadside I.E.D.s to attack our troops. Apparently, it is not Politically Correct to criticize terrorists. My failing is that I am a Hard-Core Patriot, and I believe passionately about this Country, our way of life, and our choices of Religion. I care passionately about our Armed Forces Personnel, and the great work they are doing, and the great sacrifices that they make to defend this Country. I refuse to be railroaded any further by The Liberal Media, and contract-losing business competitors, that feed their so-called "Journalist" flunkies with lies and mis-information.
> 
> ...


----------



## Teeps74 (22 Sep 2008)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Man I hope no one looks inside the blue rockets or bathroom stalls..



EDIT TO ADD: I personally know FD here, and I know he is merely pointing out a fact. The below is not directed at him, but the broader audience in general. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

I would certainly hope that there is no encouragement of this thing from any portion of those in uniform, as many of us have good friends in uniform who are of the Islamic faith. 

It would be disappointing to discover that such inbred, prejudiced, type behaviours are still acceptable in any portion of the CF. It's ok to hack on other trades and elelments, as that is generally in jest. Hacking on an ethnic group or religion is generally accepted as being a very malicious thing... It has no place in the CF, especially when I have to count on the guys and gals around me who very well will be not of my ethnic group or religion.


----------



## the 48th regulator (22 Sep 2008)

Another thread that has been ongoing, with regards toi the vendor.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79847/post-760120.html#msg760120

dileas

tess


----------



## Fishbone Jones (22 Sep 2008)

This doesn't seem to me, to be a whole lot different than the comments by Ms. H Mallick, on CBC. However, I don't see the 'left whinging press' or politicos creating much of a hubub about her comments.

Rocks and glass houses, he who is without sin and all that jazz. I'm sure _no one_ here has ever smiled silently or giggled a bit in private company after hearing similar :. I'm not going to give this legs by second guessing a private citizen over the protestations of agenda seeking competition, politicians or press. Righteous indignation is such a waste of energy.

It's just not worth my time.


----------



## gaspasser (22 Sep 2008)

Dumb question from the peanut gallery...
Is Heather Mallick married to Victor Malerik {sp.} ?  Because they both seem to engage in horrible ethics and deplorable biased journalism.
I have half a mind {don't say it!!} to actually write the ombudsman and complain...but I'll probably just to the proper Canadian thing and turn the other cheek so someone else can smash that one too.    ho -hum.. :-\


----------



## geo (22 Sep 2008)

> Between Atlantic Canada and Quebec ... I don't think anyone should feel "neglected" in the way of federal contracts


Without digging too deeply, statement should encompass most all other provinces - everyone loves to pork barrel - given half a chance


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Sep 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Without digging too deeply, statement should encompass most all other provinces - everyone loves to pork barrel - given half a chance



I agree,...who's really at fault, those who kick and scream or those who give in to those who kick and scream?


----------



## medaid (22 Sep 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I agree,...who's really at fault, those who kick and scream or those who give in to those who kick and scream?



Both.


----------



## Donaill (22 Sep 2008)

All in all I like the Grohman knives. I found it to be  a better quality knive than the plastic handled one that some of the crew were being issued. I will be buying one once I am back on ship, with a spike.  I am not a Bos'n but a good knife is always handy. I was carrying two knives, my Grohman and my own personal high quality "multi-purpose" knife. 

 I will admit that a sailors needs are perhaps different than what is needed by someone in the army. Perhaps having one knife of the yachtsmans type is not what we need in the CF? Buying them from a place with the rep of China... Thats enough about that from me.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (22 Sep 2008)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Both.



Nope, someone who represents an area should kick and scream to get benefits for his/her area.

Much as I liken Danny Williams to the scum I scrape of the bottom of my shoes, he's just milking the cow,...and if the cow can't resist, well, _baaaaaad cow._


----------



## Donaill (22 Sep 2008)

I don't believe that there hasn't been one province in this country that has not gotten something from the Feds at one time or another. Danny only got for Nf what they deserved. NS wouldn't have gotten what we got without a Danny Williams. Our wonderful Premier, at the time, was an arse kisser and spineless.


----------



## medaid (22 Sep 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Nope, someone who represents an area should kick and scream to get benefits for his/her area.
> 
> Much as I liken Danny Williams to the scum I scrape of the bottom of my shoes, he's just milking the cow,...and if the cow can't resist, well, _baaaaaad cow._



I seriously think its both. In fact it's cyclical. Those who kick and scream were in a way encouraged to do so when those who gave in, well first gave in. So when it worked the first time, it must work the second time and so on and so forth. 

Of course those who have large campaign contributions from those who kick and scream can't say "No, it ain't happening this time" without getting some sort of repercussions i.e. cut backs on contributions so those who gave in does it again. 

See, cyclical. it's encouraged behaviour almost. It's political game that ties into businesses and so forth. People don't run the governments, businesses do.


----------



## armyvern (22 Sep 2008)

AJFitzpatrick said:
			
		

> This is going to keep on going.
> 
> Story about the new supplier's website below
> http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n092114A



Seems to be a change at the website now ...

http://www.maxus.ca/


----------



## The Bread Guy (23 Sep 2008)

Some of the latest (highlights mine) from CanWest/National Post


> .... Pioro said he sold knives to the Canadian Forces in 2006 and 2007, and sold them flashlights this year.  Neither the Department of National Defence nor the Canadian Forces would make a representative available to confirm the contracts.  *On Sunday, Kory Teneycke, Stephen Harper's communications director, told the Canadian Press that since Gear Up Motors is a private company, there is little the government can do about the content of its website.  "I think the chances that this company will be doing business with the military in the future would be very much in question as a result of this," Teneycke said. * Pioro said it would not matter to him whether he got another contract with the Canadian Forces, saying they are only a "medium" customer.  Pioro said he took down the image by his own choice, but that a federal government employee did suggest to him on Sunday that some people may find portions of his website offensive. ....



And a bit from Canadian Press:


> .... Kory Teneycke, a spokesman for Prime Minister Stephen Harper, has said that Gear Up Motors has fulfilled its contractual obligations to the military and has no ongoing contracts with the federal government.  *Teneycke has predicted that the chances of the company doing any further business with the government in future "are very much in question as a result of this" controversy over the website.*



More on links


----------



## George Wallace (23 Sep 2008)

I see this person has no idea of how Government contracts are awarded.  How many here have witnessed the folly of the government in awarding contracts to the same companies, large and small, who have riped off the Government?  We can look at vehicle contracts.  We can look at the Quebec Construction firms who built Quarters and hangars in Petawawa, declared Bankruptcy near completion of the projects, and then went on to return later with the same personnel, but new company name to win another construction project on Base.  The list is quite long, perhaps endless, of companies that have committed "harm" and yet been able to win future contracts.


----------



## geo (23 Sep 2008)

Must say that the spokesperson who issued the comment from "Gear up motors" really wasn't thinking about being PC when he wrote what he wrote.....

Then again, anyone remember the CDS refering to "murduring scumbags" not all that long ago.


----------



## Kat Stevens (23 Sep 2008)

But, he never called them ragheads, did he?  Slight difference there.


----------



## geo (23 Sep 2008)

Oh yeah.... big difference

Unfortunately, although the CDS was talking about terrorists; the individual on the street only hears what he wants to hear.  He will interpret and extole the virtues of what he feels he has heard - with a personal spin thrown in for good measure.

Someone at Gear up motors is definitively showing some major intolerance.
Hope he can live with the consequences


----------



## geo (23 Sep 2008)

> !!!WARNING!!!
> 
> Liberals, Morons, Media & other Humorless drones - please use the "BACK" button on your Browser NOW!
> 
> ...



Heh.... at least he says Please


----------



## Ex-Dragoon (23 Sep 2008)

I wonder if he is a member here? lol


----------



## Michael OLeary (23 Sep 2008)

Ah yes, the old _"we were only playing"_ defence.


----------



## Jarnhamar (24 Sep 2008)

Teeps74 said:
			
		

> EDIT TO ADD: I personally know FD here, and I know he is merely pointing out a fact.



Thanks.
I'm actually not giving away any secrets here, there was a story not too long ago printed about bathroom graffiti in KAF. (The article found it's way to army.ca)
Basically the author just talks about some choice phrases (giving examples) he found written in various bathrooms on KAF.

The web page stuff wasn't in good taste. If the CF is that upset don't renew the contract that's all.


----------



## cameron (24 Sep 2008)

Those comments just goes to show that there's still no shortage of ignorant c*&#s out there.  The Canadian Forces has no control over what a supplier puts on their website but they should stop doing business with them as being associated with such individuals only undermines the battle for public support (which is difficult enough already) for the extremely important mission in Afghanistan.


----------



## geo (24 Sep 2008)

Cameron...
Should we stop dealing with those elected officials who have been caught on tape - mouthing off various messages of intolerance ???


----------



## Zoomie (24 Sep 2008)

Stan Pioro defends his product and his comments here. Scroll down.

A few excerpts....



> The media has portrayed me as a rascist, and states that I have insulted Muslims. Not true. I have never made any comments about Muslims or the Islamic Faith. It is obvious to anyone that viewed this site, that my comments and jokes were directed at Insurgents, specifically those that have declared Jihad on the West





> I forgot to correct one of the most important pieces of mis-information of the media blitz. My knives are NOT MADE IN CHINA. They are MADE IN CANADA. Ontario. And more specifically, the Richmond area. There is a true cottage industry flourishing. Local Machinists, assemblers, tanners & polishers benefit from these contracts. As for the Grohmann BS about quality, put my knife & sheath beside the Grohmann version. The superior finish & quality of my knife & sheath is stunning. Grohman  is pissing and moaning about losing the contracts in a open and fair bidding process. NO ONE IN GOVERNMENT TOOK THESE CONTRACTS AWAY FROM THEM. Perhaps if they hadn't been severely gouging DND and the Canadian Taxpayer for decades, they wouldn't have become so complacent that they feel "Entitled" to the contracts.



He has a good grounded sense of humour and is taking it all in stride - good for him.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (24 Sep 2008)

Merged all this together.


----------



## MG34 (25 Sep 2008)

I still don't get all the hype, other than the fact that Grohmann lost a contract for their poor quality knives, I don't understand the outrage at a few humerous comments directed at the ENEMY,it is  a sad statement on how PC this country has become. 
      Let's have a reality check here folks we are at war( well the armed forces are..the rest of Canada is at the mall), the enemy will always be dehumanized, and given some nasty nickname (Kraut, Hun,Nip,Gook,Haji,etc). Why? because it is alot easier to kill someone who you do not identify with. This has been a feature of combat since day one, and will continue despite of what or who decries it as a non PC, rasist practice it will not change either on the battlefield or on the homefront.


----------



## cameron (25 Sep 2008)

geo said:
			
		

> Cameron...
> Should we stop dealing with those elected officials who have been caught on tape - mouthing off various messages of intolerance ???



geo in a democracy like Canada there's a way to stop dealing with those politicians.  Wait until the next election and vote their backsides out.  However that is beside the point,  the CF should make it clear that it WILL NOT do business with individuals or groups that propogate hate.


----------



## Farmboy (25 Sep 2008)

> However that is beside the point,  the CF should make it clear that it WILL NOT do business with individuals or groups that propogate hate.



 You'll have to put that into the procument process somehow.

".....shall be awarded to the lowest compliant bidder (unless we don't like your website)."


----------



## Michael OLeary (25 Sep 2008)

Farmboy said:
			
		

> You'll have to put that into the procument process somehow.
> 
> ".....shall be awarded to the lowest compliant bidder (unless we don't like your website)."



Just imagine the bureaucracy that could grow up around confirming that every bidder had a squeaky-clean PR record on every possible topic of complaint.  And would it be limited to "official" company external publications (hard copy and electronic), or does internal (official and unofficial) documents count as well  How about simply showing that one employee, from CEO to mail room guy, had once said something unsavory?  Where does it start, or end?  How old/new must the example be?


----------



## TCBF (26 Sep 2008)

Michael O`Leary said:
			
		

> Just imagine the bureaucracy that could grow up around confirming that every bidder had a squeaky-clean PR record on every possible topic of complaint.  And would it be limited to "official" company external publications (hard copy and electronic), or does internal (official and unofficial) documents count as well  How about simply showing that one employee, from CEO to mail room guy, had once said something unsavory?  Where does it start, or end?  How old/new must the example be?



- Simple.  We use the political parties to steer contracts to their contributers who have already placed de-elected members, organizers and flacks on their payrolls.  That will insure the supliers remain 'on topic.'  We could also use the same techniques to staff the university administrations.

- Wait: we do all of that already, don't we?


----------



## mudgunner49 (29 Sep 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> It's made of carbon steel, how can it be non sparking? You want a non sparking tool, you *make it out of brass.*



... or titanium...


----------



## Kat Stevens (29 Sep 2008)

Or beryllium


----------



## Jarnhamar (8 Oct 2008)

Sooooo, is it a jump knife, a knife engineers get issued, a "boat knife"?


----------



## geo (9 Oct 2008)

It's a boat knife.... casue you're up the creek without a paddle >


----------



## the 48th regulator (15 Oct 2008)

Still Available, I have two more left!

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/38609/post-768702.html#msg768702

dileas

tess


----------



## stanp (25 Jan 2009)

Hi Folks,
I just found this Forum, and I would like to clear up some mis-conceptions concerning the knife contract. I own Gear Up Motors, and I am totally responsible for Grohman knives losing this annual Government Contract to me - two years in a row so far, = 3,000 units.

1) Statement: "Ms. Jamieson said the Chinese-made knives look the same as the ones designed by her company except they say "Made in China. 
She said the company has received many complaints about their poor quality from users who were not aware they are no longer made by the Pictou firm."

Response: The lady is a liar. She has never seen my knives. If she had, she would know damn well that they do not say "Made In China". For the last contract, (2007), I had the knives laser etched with "Canadian Forces" on one side of the blade, and "Truth Duty Valour" laser etched on the other side. 
Grohmann has never bothered customizing their knives for the customer, and making them a source of pride to the people they were issued to.

They knives and sheaths are in fact made in Ontario, by Canadian Artisans, and professional machinists and Tanners.

Second lie in the same statement: "She said the company has received many complaints about their poor quality from users who were not aware they are no longer made by the Pictou firm."

Response: I do not sell at Retail. DND is my sole customer. I price them at the level I do, because I have a deep and abiding respect for the men and women in the Canadian Forces, that are doing my fighting and dying for me, to keep this Country safe from Islamo-Fascists that seek to destroy anyone not of their Faith. My pricing is break-even. This is not a cash cow for me, as it was for Grohman. Call it my small contribution to the Forces. 

No one is returning my knives to Grohmann or anyone else. My knives have a lifetime warranty on the knife and 5 years on the sheath. My sheath is so superior to the Grohman sheath in construction and durability, they wouldn't dare put them side by side for comparison.

They would also never put the knife itself side by side for comparison. All details of my knife are sharper and better defined than the Grohmann product. The Grohmann knife looks like it came from a "Dollar Store" by comparison.

Ask the personnel that actually were issued my knives about "shoddy workmanship."

Out of 3,000 knives delivered, I have never had a knife returned from DND for any reason. That is a 6 sigma product in anyones world.

2) Statement: The knife contract was "taken away" by the Government. 

Response:_* I * _ took the contract away by providing a superior product at a better price. Grohman has been gouging DND and the Canadian taxpayer for decades. They feel "entitled" to the contract. It must have been a Hell of a shock when they lost it. At the prices they were charging, it was a serious financial blow. 

Re: pricing - Grohmanns retail prices have come down from $100.00 to $75. Strange ain't it?

3) The hack "journalist" Joan Bryden claimed she met the head of Grohmann knives at a Toyota Dealership, where he pissed and moaned about the evil inequities of competition. They were very concerned about buying Canadian. 
Isn't it interesting that these "Buy Canadian" fanatics met at a Toyota Dealership? 
Obviously, these hypocrites don't really believe in "Buy Canadian".

I have never owned a foreign car. I drive Fords. My wife drives Fords. We put our money where our mouth is.


4) The Solicitation for the knife contracts specifies very particular requirements for the steel and all other components. The product undergoes testing to destruction to determine that they comply with all specifications. My knives comply to the specs, and have never been rejected at Q.A., or any other stage of the bidding process.

I hope this helps dispel some of the BS that has been disseminated by unscroupulous people with an agenda.

Any questions - feel free to email me.

PS: More DND suppliers are going to be pissing and moaning about having contracts "taken away" by the Government. I have some major products in prototype stages.

Regards,


Stan Pioro
Gear Up Motors
Web page: www.maxus.ca
email: stanp@maxus.ca


----------



## Fishbone Jones (25 Jan 2009)

Stan,

Thanks for clearing that up and giving both sides to the story. It now allows our readers to make informed decisions and reach a more suitable opinion.

Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## the 48th regulator (25 Jan 2009)

I heard that Grohmann  won the contract, in the latest bid.

Anyone have details to that?

dileas

tess


----------



## stanp (25 Jan 2009)

The contract hasn't been awarded yet. The quantity is 1500 units.

Stan


----------



## the 48th regulator (25 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> The contract hasn't been awarded yet. The quantity is 1500 units.
> 
> Stan



Roger that,

What is the end date for the bid, or more precicely, have they announced when the award date is?

dileas

dileas


----------



## stanp (25 Jan 2009)

The close date for bids was Dec 30. There is no time limit on when the contract must be awarded. Delivery date on the sol. was Jan 30 - that makes for a pretty short build and ship schedule.

Stan


----------



## the 48th regulator (25 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> The close date for bids was Dec 30. There is no time limit on when the contract must be awarded. Delivery date on the sol. was Jan 30 - that makes for a pretty short build and ship schedule.
> 
> Stan



Do you have any pictures of the knife?  Also, are they available to the public to purchase?  I am a collector, and maker of knives and would love to have one for my collection.

I also belong to a forum of Knife Makers, where we put knives to the test.  I may be interested in a few.

dileas

tess


----------



## stanp (25 Jan 2009)

Sorry. They are strictly available to serving CF Personnel.

Stan


----------



## the 48th regulator (25 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> Sorry. They are strictly available to serving CF Personnel.
> 
> Stan



hmmm,

Any reasons for that?  I would love to get my hands on a few.

Also, I have seen a knife that was supposed to be the one you sold to the CF, that had some etching on the side.  But I can not remember what the exact wording was.

Can you at leaste describe it, or even provide pictures so we can see what the military is getting?

dileas

tess


----------



## stanp (25 Jan 2009)

The knife is made for, and only available to, DND or serving Personnel. I have no interest in creating a mass market for this item. I make it with pride strictly for the Canadian Forces. The public doesn't deserve to own this knife. They haven't earned the right. I am not doing this for the money. If I were, I would be hawking them on my web site, ebay, KIJIJI, and any other forum on which I thought I could make a buck.

Stan


----------



## Michael OLeary (25 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> The knife is made for, and only available to, DND or serving Personnel. I have no interest in creating a mass market for this item. I make it with pride strictly for the Canadian Forces. *The public doesn't deserve to own this knife. They haven't earned the right.*  I am not doing this for the money. If I were, I would be hawking them on my web site, ebay, KIJIJI, and any other forum on which I thought I could make a buck.
> 
> Stan



Ease up there Stan.  The guy asking about your knife doesn't exactly categorize as "the public" around here.  He's earned the right.







Link.


----------



## stanp (26 Jan 2009)

As I understood it, the Vet was making a comment. He wasn't requesting a purchase. I will certainly sell to Veterans as well.

I apologize for my misunderstanding.


Stan


----------



## stanp (27 Jan 2009)

I have been spanked. The contract went to Grohman. I guess I will have to start pissing and moaning about having the contract "taken away" by an evil competitor.

Not.


Stan


----------



## the 48th regulator (27 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> I have been spanked. The contract went to Grohman. I guess I will have to start pissing and moaning about having the contract "taken away" by an evil competitor.
> 
> Not.
> 
> ...



Does that mean you will make them available to the General Public now?

Also, were your knives the ones inscribed with the "Truth Duty Valor." etching? 

dileas

tess


----------



## stanp (27 Jan 2009)

The knives will not be available to the GP. Mine were the ones inscribed with those words. I made a mistake common for old geezers on the last contract in '07 - I had the opposite side of the knife inscribed with CANADIAN ARMED FORCES. I realize now that the name was incorrect. Should have been CANADIAN FORCES. Darned if I can remember when the change took place. During Unification?


----------



## the 48th regulator (27 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> The knives will not be available to the GP. Mine were the ones inscribed with those words. I made a mistake common for old geezers on the last contract in '07 - I had the opposite side of the knife inscribed with CANADIAN ARMED FORCES. I realize now that the name was incorrect. Should have been CANADIAN FORCES. Darned if I can remember when the change took place. During Unification?




Another point could be the spelling of Valour.

"Truth, Duty, Valor"  this is the American way of spelling it. We, in Canada, end Valour with a OUR.

Small point, but could be the stickler when it came down to the line.

dileas

tess


----------



## Michael OLeary (27 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> The knives will not be available to the GP. Mine were the ones inscribed with those words. I made a mistake common for old geezers on the last contract in '07 - I had the opposite side of the knife inscribed with CANADIAN ARMED FORCES. I realize now that the name was incorrect. Should have been CANADIAN FORCES. Darned if I can remember when the change took place. During Unification?



Just out of curiosity, was the inscription bilingual?


----------



## Blackadder1916 (27 Jan 2009)

Also curiosity.  When you inscribed the knives with "Canadian Armed Forces" and "Truth, Duty, Valor" was this inscription required/permitted by the contract or was this added on your own initiative?


----------



## stanp (27 Jan 2009)

At the time, the solicitation had no clauses that disallowed the inscriptions. I added them on my own.


----------



## xena (27 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> ..inscribed with CANADIAN ARMED FORCES. I realize now that the name was incorrect. Should have been CANADIAN FORCES. Darned if I can remember when the change took place. During Unification?



Actually, there* never was * a change.  Although now often used interchangeably, they refer to different things.  It's actually all defined in the National Defence Act, if anyone could be bothered to look it up.  IIRC, the term "Canadian Forces" refers to the Regular Force, the Primary Reserve, the Supplementary Reserve, and the Canadian Rangers.  The term "Canadian *Armed* Forces" refers to the Regular Force and the Primary Reserve.  I could be wrong on that, but I definitely remember that there were elements that were part of the Canadian Forces that were not part of the Canadian *Armed* Forces.  Maybe someone with DIN access (since I'm a retired member who is now part of the great unwashed known as the "general public") could quote the applicable portion(s) and correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## xena (27 Jan 2009)

Okay, maybe I was wrong.  It looks like the terms are just interchangeable:


> National Defence Act
> PART II: THE CANADIAN FORCES
> Constitution
> Canadian Forces
> 14. The Canadian Forces are the armed forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada and consist of one Service called the Canadian Armed Forces.


----------



## the 48th regulator (28 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> At the time, the solicitation had no clauses that disallowed the inscriptions. I added them on my own.



Can we at the leaste, have a picture of your product, so that we have an idea what our military was getting?

Hi Stan,

Sorry for the way I asked for Pics, it came across as me demanding them.  Please accept my appology for my crude behaviour.

If you are will to show me pics, please PM me when you can.

cheers


dileas

tess


----------



## NL_engineer (28 Jan 2009)

I was issued one of Stan's knives the other day.  I hope it keeps its blade longer then the other ones.


Tess I can post pics of mine if you want.


----------



## the 48th regulator (28 Jan 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> I was issued one of Stan's knives the other day.  I hope it keeps its blade longer then the other ones.
> 
> 
> Tess I can post pics of mine if you want.



Now wories Brother,

All is good.  

dileas

tess


----------



## NL_engineer (28 Jan 2009)

As requested through PM (I will leave said person unnamed)


----------



## armyvern (29 Jan 2009)

Stan,

No offense, but being a proud Canadian and all that jazz ... hoping you have that "valour" typo all fixed up now.

Veronica


----------



## stanp (29 Jan 2009)

Thanks V.

eye nevr sade I wuz a gud spelur

It will not happen again. I have been thoroughly chastised for that one.

Stan


----------



## stanp (30 Jan 2009)

NL_engineer said:
			
		

> As requested through PM (I will leave said person unnamed)




From the serial number, it was issued out of Montreal. I only say that because it was delivered to Montreal. I have no idea where it was actually issued from.

Stan


----------



## Nfld Sapper (30 Jan 2009)

It would have been issued out of 3 ASG/CFB GAGETOWN, NB


----------



## aesop081 (30 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> From the serial number, it was issued out of Montreal. I only say that because it was delivered to Montreal. I have no idea where it was actually issued from.
> 
> Stan



Montreal is home to a major supply depot ( 25 CFSD) so the knife , theoreticaly, could have been issued out of anywhere.


----------



## Soldier1stTradesman2nd (31 Jan 2009)

Makes for a unique collector item, does it not (very limited edition with peculiar markings)?


----------



## stanp (31 Jan 2009)

The customer has specified "no markings" other than: MADE IN CANADA, Make, Model, NSN, CAGE on the Jan 30, 2009 deliverables, and probably future builds, they are very unique in the fact that they are serialized, have the slogan, and CAF on them.


----------



## stanp (31 Jan 2009)

PS: 1400 were delivered to Montreal, 1000 were delivered to Edmonton.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (31 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> PS: 1400 were delivered to Montreal, 1000 were delivered to Edmonton.



And that would be the location of the 2 Supply Depots.


----------



## Nfld Sapper (31 Jan 2009)

stanp said:
			
		

> *The customer has specified "no markings" other than: MADE IN CANADA, Make, Model, NSN, CAGE* on the Jan 30, 2009 deliverables, and probably future builds, they are very unique in the fact that they are serialized, have the slogan, and CAF on them.



Interesting as my knife issued in 1999 (yeah I know different manufacturer) there are ZERO markings other than MADE IN  CANADA and Grohmann, D.H. Russell #3 Stainless Steel.


----------



## geo (1 Feb 2009)

Yeah... I got mine +/-1972 or 3ish... 
as indicated before, I need to give the blade a bit of a grind once in a while.... but I can do that while watching the news or listening to my son talk about his latest GF.

I like the design - regardless of who makes it.


----------



## X Royal (18 Mar 2009)

I have a Grohmann knife and compared to the pictures from the other manufacturer the fit and finish seems far superior on the Grohmann. From the pictures the handle does not line up with the metal handle tang of the knife. As for looking similar to the Grohmann the shape is quite similar.


			
				NL_engineer said:
			
		

>


----------



## templeton peck (9 Jun 2009)

Looks like the hotel steak knives from Chateau Lake Louise!


----------



## McG (30 Jun 2009)

> Knifemaker gets Forces contract
> The Chronicle-Herald
> 30 June 2009
> 
> ...



As another fun bit of trivia, Combat Engineers now have a documented entitlement for this knife.  You can sign for it on your clothing docs.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (30 Jun 2009)

I have one of Stan's knives and am very happy with it.


----------



## Kat Stevens (30 Jun 2009)

MCG said:
			
		

> As another fun bit of trivia, Combat Engineers now have a documented entitlement for this knife.  You can sign for it on your clothing docs.



When weren't they entitled?  I had one on my belt every day for about 23 years, signed for and everything.


----------



## stanp (30 Jun 2009)

templeton peck said:
			
		

> Looks like the hotel steak knives from Chateau Lake Louise!



Obviously a First Class establishment. Unfortunately, I haven't had the financial resources to eat there myself. How much are the steaks BTW?

Stan


----------

