# Embarrasing Question



## sarahj (3 Apr 2005)

I'm really glad I stumbled across these forums because I've been struggling a bit with what to do about an embarrasing part of my background. I hope you all won't judge me too harshly... everyone's made mistakes... heh.

I guess I'll start with a bit of background. I ended up in a really bad position financially last year between breaking up with my fiance, inability to find work in my field, and student loan payments coming due. I was literally scraping the bottom of the barrel, my monthly income was siginificantly lower than my monthly bills and I'd run out of savings. So what I ended up doing was dancing in strip clubs part time on the side for a couple months to pay off my student loans. It was really an awful job, you meet a lot of scumy guys doing that, but it was legal work and it bailed me out of my financial problems.

I never expected to be applying for a job that would involve an extensive background check, but shit happens and things change, and here I am a couple months later applying to the army. I wasn't sure what to do about this particular aspect of my background on the applications, seemed like a damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of situation, so on the advice of a couple of buddies in the military, I left it off my application. This decision hasn't been sitting really well with me though. I'm not a dishonest person by nature, I absolutely hate lying and even fudging the truth a little makes me quite uncomfortable.

So I guess I have two questions, now that you all know the situation. Would the fact I danced in strip clubs get me turned down for military service? I didn't do it for very long and also did not get involved in any of the drugs or alcohol or <coughs> less than legal activities in the private rooms, but I know it's something that'll look bad nonetheless. And now that my application is already submitted, is it something I should (or even can?) change? There's not much of a paper trail linking me to it. Everything was paid in cash and I haven't gotten any T4's, so I'm guessing the clubs aren't filing any taxes or employment info. I am leaning towards telling the recruiters though, because I'm sure it's big shit if you get caught omitting something like that, and I hate this feeling you get in the pit of your stomach when you think you might get caught doing something bad.

Bleh. Stupid.

Any constructive suggestions would be greatly appreciated but please keep any flames to yourselves, I'm doing a good enough job beating myself up for being stupid on my own.

Thanks.


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## aesop081 (3 Apr 2005)

i can't relate to your dilema but i can tell you that in my experience, if you are honest on the forms they give you...it'll all work out.  Besides, you may not have like the work you were doing but it is honest work.. You were not a criminal so you should be ok.

Thats my take on it, other may disagree


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## Strike (3 Apr 2005)

Although not completely related I have a friend who was a DJ in a club in Quebec city.  Not sure if he put it on the application but everyone he worked with knew about his former job.


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## Tpr.Orange (3 Apr 2005)

Admitting what you have done is the best possible practice. Plus it shows that you were able to get yourself out of a bad financial situations, and you can deal with it.


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## CrashBear (3 Apr 2005)

Honesty is always the best route to take. Trust me as an ex MP they will find out when they do the security screening.  It may make a difference if you are applying for certain positions.  If anything your finaincial difficulties may be more of a concern.


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## Navalsnpr (3 Apr 2005)

Definitely being forthcoming with the recruiters is the best route.

Honesty appears to be the best policy when walking into DND's front door.


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## TCBF (3 Apr 2005)

Considering the number of soldiers I have seen in strip clubs over the years, I see no moral high ground between watching the dancers or being one.     Most of the dancers I saw appeared to be in better physical condition than some of the soldiers watching them.

I doubt too many recruiters will be shocked at your story.

Best of luck with your career.

Tom


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## Gunner (3 Apr 2005)

sarahj, there is nothing to be ashamed of if you are involved in honest and legal work.   You don't mention what trade you are going into, so it entirely possible that they are just conducting the enhanced reliability check which is fairly cursory and may or may not state what you were doing.  Certainly if you are required to have a higher security clearance, some questions may be asked of your past activities.  

Bottom line, as many others have stated, honesty is the best policy.  How can you be a good soldier if you are not honest?  

Having said that, don't go advertising to your army buddies that you were a stripper, you don't need that type of attention.

Good luck.


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## Sh0rtbUs (3 Apr 2005)

Gunner said:
			
		

> Having said that, don't go advertising to your army buddies that you were a stripper, you don't need that type of attention.
> 
> Good luck.



I was thinking the same thing. Be careful who you confide in...


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## kincanucks (3 Apr 2005)

We don't care if you dance in a strip club or on a ballet stage but you had better be able to account for your employment history honestly.  Get the application back and enter the information.  I think I have interviewed about ten current or former strippers in recruiting (and liesurely) and we don't care if you were a stripper.  Good luck.  ;D


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## sarahj (4 Apr 2005)

Thank you very much everbody for the responses, it was very difficult for me to write that. I'm working on tracking down the employer info I need today, will hopefully have it all in to the person handling my file tomorrow, and I'm feeling much better about things already.


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## Sh0rtbUs (4 Apr 2005)

Good luck, keep us posted on how you fair out!


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## MeFandE (4 Apr 2005)

Hi Sarah, 

I wish you the very best of luck in your career and a strong congrats on surviving in this world and moving forward with your life! 

There is one point I really want to make to you.

You do NOT want army wives to ever find out that you were a dancer. It doesn't matter if the army wife is a good friend - she may tell her husband or other friends and it would be sent around to everyone else at the speed of bloody light!

It's difficult enough at times being female in the military as it can be hard to figure out where you fit in. Are you one of the guys or one of the girls or both? But if the "wives net" gets a hold of this information your situation would be even more difficult. Not all military wives are like this but many will run with the story and before you know it the facts will be stretched so that the truth is completely unrecognizable. 

I'm not army wife bashing here. I'm just stating how it can be. I've been one for 15 years. (where's my CD ;D )

You shouldn't be embarrassed of your past - it's done. God knows we've all done things that make our stomachs tie in knots when we think about them. It's just best to keep some things to yourself, not out of shame, but out of self-preservation.
Believe me, I have a few secrets that will go to the grave with me rather than be sent around the bloody PMQ patch. 

When it comes to trusting people with Top Secret information I always remember one thing my grandfather always said.

â Å“I never tell anyone a secret told to me. Not even to your grandmother. If I can't keep my mouth shut about something secret what makes me think she'll be able to do it.â ?

I hope you don't mind my taking the liberty to post this message. I know it doesn't answer your question but I hoped you wouldn't mind my addressing the situation. Military wives can be like a pack of bloody wolves, especially if they see a pretty young woman in uniform standing next to their husbands. Give me a break! 

Take care! Be strong!


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## TCBF (4 Apr 2005)

VERY good advice.  Me F and E.

(And I DO get the DF&E joke.)

Tom


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## Gouki (5 Apr 2005)

Besides SarahJ, if they were to turn you down because of that (which has already been established that they won't) they may as well kick out a fair number of the guys already in the military who have done or are doing far, far worse than stripping for cash. You should hear some of the shit that happens in Shilo, it makes your stripping history look like childsplay in comparison.

So .. don't worry about it


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## Pieman (5 Apr 2005)

> So what I ended up doing was dancing in strip clubs part time on the side for a couple months to pay off my student loans.



Ah, the student loan system. Forcing a certain percentage of Canada's recently educated into poverty, exotic dancing, and perhaps worse everywhere.

SarahJ, if you are having further problems with your loans, or want some good general information, this is a good resource:

http://www.canadastudentdebt.ca

Some of the stories on that forum are pretty nuts.


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## Trinity (5 Apr 2005)

Its always better to be 100% truthful on your application...

who knows how many years down the road if they found something wrong
and you get processed out for irregular enrolement.

100% truth.... 

I know people who had criminal records and didn't say cause they were afraid.
Didnt' get in..  not beause they had a criminal record, but because they lied.

The military just wants the truth.


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## Dissident (5 Apr 2005)

Honesty is by far the best route to take.

I don't have much to back the following comments, so don't take me too seriously. Considering the the type of background checks the army does, I doubt that they would ever find out, or want to find out. I had a very shamefull job for a while, to help pay for college, that I did not mention at anytime to the army. Technicaly, me not telling the army that I was a mascott for a couple of months may be grounds for dismissal. Or when I was cleaning the Zellers washroom on the night shift. Who here thinks that the CF would really care? 

I have met self proclaim ex strippers in the army, so really it wont stop you from joining. The choice is yours.


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## sarahj (5 Apr 2005)

I sent my file manager the relevant information today, we talked a bit on the phone, and now I have appointments booked.  ;D

Thanks again, everybody, lots of good advice!


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## Navalsnpr (5 Apr 2005)

Sarahj, Good to hear!

Good Luck


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## quebecbest (5 Apr 2005)

sarahj said:
			
		

> everyone's made mistakes...



well i didn't


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## meni0n (5 Apr 2005)

quebecbest said:
			
		

> well i didn't



Very mature


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## quebecbest (5 Apr 2005)

meni0n said:
			
		

> Very mature



the hell it ain't


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## J.J (5 Apr 2005)

Sarahj, I can only repeat what everyone else has said, be forthcoming and it will all work out in the end. To be honest you may get more attention for working under the table (pun not intended). The military is a government agency and they may frown upon a potential recruit not paying taxes. The construction worker or waitress who works for cash and does not file a return and claim all their income will suffer the same fate. The recruiter cannot hold anything against you for being a dancer it is a legal occupation. 
To reiterate what MeFandE said (obviously experienced and knows what he is talking about), keep your past in the past. Regardless what you did or did not do, it will be skewed and it will not benefit you in any way. Do not tell friends, significant others, do not tell anybody. The soldiers/sailors/airmen (airperson???) gossip and talk like an old ladies sewing circle and the truth will never prevail.
On a personal note, I worked as a doorman in several strip clubs and bars and I am currently a professional Law Enforcement Officer, it was not held against me as it was a legal occupation and I did nothing wrong or illegal. 
Do not be ashamed of you past, it is what makes you the person you are today.


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## JBP (5 Apr 2005)

SarahJ,

Hoorah to you for having the "balls" to go out and DO what you needed to do to survive. As other's have said, don't be ashamed of yourself at all. You made it and didn't drown in debt and have to claim bankruptcy at a young age (I'm assuming - I'm 23). When you look back on it a couple months, or years from now, you'll see it's only made you stronger. Never look back, never regret!

Joe


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## Ex-Dragoon (5 Apr 2005)

quebecbest you are making very asinine posts that have zero relevance to the topic being discussed. If you do not have anything useful to say then keep your comments to yourself.

sarahj best of luck.


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## Kat Stevens (5 Apr 2005)

sahahj: Always shoot straight, stay cool, go far..... stay the course..

CHIMO,  Kat


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## sarahj (5 Apr 2005)

No worries on the taxes score. I always file mine, and I kept records of my earnings as a dancer so the lack of T-4's is not going to be an issue. Thanks again.


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## sarahj (6 Apr 2005)

I made the mistake of not hiding my email address at first, so several people have added me to their MSN lists. Just wanted to say I've quite enjoyed meeting and chatting with you all, but I will not be disclosing any personal information so don't get your hopes up. I don't think it's a good idea for me to be publicly linked to my post here. Sorry!


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## Redeye (6 Apr 2005)

Should be nothing to worry about - it was, as you said, legal and honest work, even if it wasn't the greatest of jobs.  I know a PRes member who works "civvie-side" as a stripper, and while I don't think it's something you should advertise to other soldiers, it's nothing to be ashamed of.  You did what you had to do to keep your life moving along.  Good luck with your application.



			
				sarahj said:
			
		

> I'm really glad I stumbled across these forums because I've been struggling a bit with what to do about an embarrasing part of my background. I hope you all won't judge me too harshly... everyone's made mistakes... heh.
> 
> I guess I'll start with a bit of background. I ended up in a really bad position financially last year between breaking up with my fiance, inability to find work in my field, and student loan payments coming due. I was literally scraping the bottom of the barrel, my monthly income was siginificantly lower than my monthly bills and I'd run out of savings. So what I ended up doing was dancing in strip clubs part time on the side for a couple months to pay off my student loans. It was really an awful job, you meet a lot of scumy guys doing that, but it was legal work and it bailed me out of my financial problems.
> 
> ...


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## MORGUE (6 Apr 2005)

the truth is always the best option.  The CF is for the most part fairly understanding and given your situation it shows them when push came to shove you held your head up and kept yourself afloat working, rather than using social assistance.  KNOWBODY is perfect and we have all done things we sometimes wish we had'nt....i think theres a phrase for that......oh yeah it's called "being human"

best of luck to you and your career with the CF

MORGUE


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## Pieman (6 Apr 2005)

> I made the mistake of not hiding my email address at first, so several people have added me to their MSN lists. Just wanted to say I've quite enjoyed meeting and chatting with you all, but I will not be disclosing any personal information so don't get your hopes up. I don't think it's a good idea for me to be publicly linked to my post here. Sorry!



Sarahj, they just want to know if you have any of those posters and key chains left over  
(joke, not meant as a flame)


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## garb811 (6 Apr 2005)

Dissident said:
			
		

> Considering the the type of background checks the army does, I doubt that they would ever find out, or want to find out. I had a very shamefull job for a while, to help pay for college, that I did not mention at anytime to the army. Technicaly, me not telling the army that I was a mascott for a couple of months may be grounds for dismissal. Or when I was cleaning the Zellers washroom on the night shift. Who here thinks that the CF would really care?



Bad advice to give, particularly as you are taking your experience with a background check conducted for a Militia MP and extrapolating it onto the entire CF.  It is quite simply uneconomical to conduct a complete background check on every individual but where there is the requirement, either for cause or because of the clearance being granted, an investigator is assigned and the process is done thoroughly.  

Having done the background checks in a previous life I can assure you that if a full blown background check is conducted, it all comes out in the wash and it is much better to be slightly embarrassed by putting it down at the start as opposed to having to explain the issue in an interview where the hard questions get asked after it is discovered and flagged for follow-up.  

As for who in the Army cares if you're honest?  Well, I suppose the people who are evaluating your honesty and reliability prior to being given access to particularly sensitive assets, material and information.  If you're dishonest about something as simple as legal employment because you're embarrassed by it, that says quite a bit about someones character IMHO and it's a cause for concern.  But that's just me...


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## Armageddon (6 Apr 2005)

Well said MP 00161.  I to agree that honesty is always the best policy.  Why have the possibility of somebody always "finding out someday" when you could be upfront about it and then be done with it. Last thing you want to do is limit/endanger your career just because you don't wanna talk about it. IMHO.


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## sarahj (6 Apr 2005)

Pieman said:
			
		

> Sarahj, they just want to know if you have any of those posters and key chains left over
> (joke, not meant as a flame)



LOL! If that's the case, I wasn't in the business long enough to have any made up. Sorry again, guys!


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