# Victoria Cross



## Bill Smy (29 Sep 2002)

Now that Canada has adopted its own version of the VC, should we not award it to Canada‘s Unknown Soldier?

The British awarded the VC to the American Unknown Soldier, and the Americans have awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor to the British Unknown Warrior. So the idea of awarding our VC to the Canadian Unknown Soldier is not without precedence.

The Royal Canadian Legion is not in favour of the idea. They are on record as believing that the Unknown Soldier needs no recognition. But is that not what gallantry awards are all about? Recognizing the deeds of our warriors?

What better recognition to the countless unkown and unrecognized deeds of gallantry than to award it to the Unknown Soldier?

An idea.

  :fifty:


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## Michael Dorosh (30 Sep 2002)

Ugh.  Don‘t like that idea at all.  Only 16 Canadians won the VC since the end of World War One, if memory serves.  Giving a VC to a dead guy who may very well have been a deserter, child molester or murderer (we don‘t know because he‘s anonymous, right?) just cheapens the ones we gave out to men we knew deserved it.

And then there is the question - if the Army gets a VC for its unknown soldier, why wouldn‘t we honour an unknown sailor or airman of the Merchant Marine, RCAF, RCN and RCNVR?  

And why not the CWAC?  It‘s a bit sexist only to award the VC to dead men.  A dead woman needs to be honoured post-haste!

And how come no negro has ever won the VC?  We should probably award one to a black soldier right away.

Etc...

Let‘s save the medals for those who have earned them by doing something more than simply dying.


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## Bill Smy (30 Sep 2002)

A couple of points:-

The British quite correctly use the term "The Unknown Warrior" which includes members of both genders and all services. In Canada, we have adopted the term "The Unknown Soldier", but if you read all the official documentation you will note that the remains brought back from Europe are representative of men and women in Canadian Forces (all elements) who died in all of the conflicts in which this country has been involved.

Second:- this is not a "Whites" only decoration. A Black, Able Seaman William Hall, from Nova Scotia, won the VC while serving in the Royal Navy during the Indian Mutiny. It has been won by numerous Ghurka soldiers. The post on this web page on 3 Mar 2002 gives an excellent history of the VC.

  :fifty:


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## Gordon Angus Mackinlay (30 Sep 2002)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The belief that the Unknown Warrior was awarded the Victoria Cross is a fallacy.  It stems from the fact that when the coffin was placed in it‘s crypt in Westminster Cathederal, the passageway into it was lined with 100 men who had been awarded the VC.

The VC was presented to the US people for their Unknown Soldier, in response to their presenting ‘to the People of Great Britain in Remembrance of their War Dead‘ - not specifically the ‘Unknown Warrior‘ the Medal of Honor awarded by the United States Congress in the name of the people and the Constitution  (it is not the Congressional Medal of Honor, that is a totally different award, awarded for such as Charles Lindberg for flying the Atlantic etc).

In regard to the gentleman‘s political correct statement, re genders and services.  Totally wrong - the people who developed the concept were men who had received (what was the norm for British countries in those days) a classical education, with Greek and Latin being the standard subjects.  Their idea being to go back to the Greek heroes of yesteryear - the warrior who fought cleanly with honour and respect (not dying in the mud and rain of Flanders, with your viscera drapped around your ankles) of noble appearance and beauty.

Of interest when the Australian Commonwealth Government of the time (which was going through a very bad time at the polls - lost the next election) decided to have our own ‘Unknown Soldier‘, they decided to award him the Victoria Cross for Australia.  It did not get very far in the planning stages due to the concepts given by a previous writer.

See Michael Gavaghan, The Story of the Unknown Warrior (1997), for a recent description of the events relating to the buria.

Yours,
Jock in Sydney


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## Gordon Angus Mackinlay (30 Sep 2002)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

as an addit to message above see:

 http://www.westminster-abbey.org/library/burial/warrior.htm 

A interesting and informative little dit on the Unknown Warrior.

Yours,
Jock in Sydney


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## Bill Smy (7 Oct 2002)

I note that the description in the Westminster Abbey article on the Unknown Soldier does say "Congressional Medal of Honour"

Bill

  :fifty:


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## bossi (8 Oct 2002)

Bill Smy said "... now that Canada has adopted its own version of the VC ...".

I deduce from his statement that this "version" did not exist 1914-1918.  Thus, I‘m leery about any retroactive award.

A small point, a technicality perhaps, but I‘ve never believed in revisionist history.

My two cents‘ worth.


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## combat_medic (8 Oct 2002)

This "new" version of the VC for Canadians only was not introduced until after WWII. Consequently, none of these Canadian VCs have ever actually been awarded. The only change is that instead of "For Valour", the Canadian medal says "Pro Valore" (same thing, in Latin). I would assume it would still be made from the canon bronze in England, but since there‘s never been one made, I have no clue. 

P.S. There‘s a great website about the VC at www.chapter-one.com/vc if you want to know more.


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## Michael Dorosh (8 Oct 2002)

I was disappointed when I saw a picture of the bronze the medals are made from (on the internet, I think) - all fantasies of HM The Queen taking me to the backyard of Buckingham Palace to show me The Cannon used to make the VC she just presented me were rudely dashed.  The fabled cannon no longer exist anymore, and the bronze is really just a heap of slag which is utilized as necessary.    

I thought it was terrible to see that photo posted - like taking a picture of the Queen going to the bathroom or something - it just ruins all the mystique!


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## Jarnhamar (15 Oct 2002)

"Ugh. Don‘t like that idea at all. Only 16 Canadians won the VC since the end of World War One, if memory serves. Giving a VC to a dead guy who may very well have been a deserter, child molester or murderer (we don‘t know because he‘s anonymous, right?) just cheapens the ones we gave out to men we knew deserved it.

And then there is the question - if the Army gets a VC for its unknown soldier, why wouldn‘t we honour an unknown sailor or airman of the Merchant Marine, RCAF, RCN and RCNVR? 

And why not the CWAC? It‘s a bit sexist only to award the VC to dead men. A dead woman needs to be honoured post-haste!
And how come no negro has ever won the VC? We should probably award one to a black soldier right away.

Etc...

Let‘s save the medals for those who have earned them by doing something more than simply dying."

***
Um, wow. Where to start.  i hope i took your post wrong and you were being sarcastic, if not ;
Regarding your last statement, i think ANY soldier who dies for their country should deserve some reckognition if not a medal (such as wounded soldiers recieve a purple heart [int he US]). 

Theres a heck of a lot of canadians who wouldn‘t lift a finger "for their country" let alone give their  life.   I wonder how many "unknown" soldiers have died performing heroic deeds and their actions have gone completly unrecorded. Wouldnt awarding the VC to the unknown soldier represent reckognition to all those who died heroicly though unreckognized?  We wouldn‘t be giving it to one soldier in specific but all of them.

"And why not the CWAC? It‘s a bit sexist only to award the VC to dead men. A dead woman needs to be honoured post-haste!
And how come no negro has ever won the VC? We should probably award one to a black soldier right away."

I hate to be rude and i am a firm believer EVERYONE is intitled to their own opinion but i honestly think this statement is one of the stupidest  and useless comments i‘ve seen or heard in a long time.
Thats the kind of attitude that does more harm and no good. Its like saying "In an attempt to reach equality in the forces ONLY women and minorities are elligible for the VC until theres as many women who have it as men"

If i took your post seriously when it was intended as a joke then i humbly appologize, if not then way to demean the history and future of the forces.


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