# Should men be allowed to join women-only gyms?



## Armymedic (14 Sep 2005)

A CTV news story out of Vancouver (I am looking for a link and story to put here).

CTV poll on the right:
http://www.ctv.ca/canadaam

Basically, this man wants to join a women's only fitness facility, because in his words, it is the best facility in the area he lives in. He was obviously denied membership, but also treated rudely and is now taking his case to the Human Rights tribunal in BC.

My personal feelings:

1. I agree with woman only fitness facilities, like Curves (my wife is a member, going 3 x a week) where they can go and work out. She hated accompanying me to the base gym because men would look at her (can't say I blame them), or that there was too few weights and machine small and light enough to use. This was the 8-9 years ago when we first moved here. Base gym here in Pet has gotten much better in the last few years since PSP took over.

2. As an equality issue...the fitness center does not have a chance. It is pure and simple. They are discriminating against this man for wanting to become a member. Now before you get all up in arms, lets imagine this is role reversed...a woman wanting to join a men only gym....

Oh wait we don't have to pretend, it has happened....

So what if the tribunal decides against him in favour of the Gym?


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## brin11 (14 Sep 2005)

To answer the question...yup.  The only reason these places have stayed open is because no one has challenged them to date.  We'll see what happens now.  Watch and shoot.


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## Gramps (14 Sep 2005)

The question should be..............Who F*&%ing cares about these silly little issues. There are men only clubs so why can't there be women only gyms, or does this threaten someones masculinity?   What are they doing in there? Are they making fun of me? Why don they let me try to chat them up? Really.............................. who cares?


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## Gunnar (14 Sep 2005)

Quite frankly, I hope they DO decide against him, and do so in such a way that it is clear that you CAN have discrimination in social clubs because the members wish to discriminate in that way.   While I don't think that "women/gays/other disadvantaged group should be kept out of activity X", I can see that those participating in activity X might want to make it the "men's division" etc....I don't really have a problem with that.

Women-only clubs started because of the social pressures on women to be slim, and so that women could work out in an environment free from leering men.   Not that there aren't leering women, but the tendency is towards men.   Why shouldn't they do that if they want?   Why shouldn't I play golf, or soccer, in a men's-only league?

Keeping aside the circumstances where the gender-specific league is the only game in town, or the only really highly competitive league, (because I believe that talent should be rewarded, and that members of those leagues should want to have the best people in them--still, an argument I'm not getting into right now) I believe that discrimination isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Someone once asked Sean Connery why he only golfed with men...he replied "because when I golf, I prefer the company of men".   Social activity means that social discrimination is in play.   That's part of what makes it fun.


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## camochick (14 Sep 2005)

Yarghhh. Another waste of tax payers money. Why can't this guy just leave it alone? I have no problem with womens' gyms's , men's gyms, gay gym's. These places are designed so that the people who work out there will feel more comfortable. It's not about discrimination. The local petsmart wont cut my hair like they do the dogs, but I'm not going to sue for discrimination because i am human. Holy crap, some people are just mental.


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## Fry (14 Sep 2005)

I support gyms like that to a point. However there is a women's gym closer to me than a gym that I can actually go to...  but to each his own, and in this case, her own too.


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## SemperFidelis (14 Sep 2005)

SO many cry-babies in society about everything!  Gunnar, I def. concur with you.

And with you cammochick... 



> The local petsmart wont cut my hair like they do the dogs, but I'm not going to sue for discrimination because i am human



Thats classic


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## winchable (14 Sep 2005)

They just opened a womans only gym near me, I say crack on, the less women there are at my gym the less women there are for those guys who just walk around and stretch to impress..or not impress...at any rate this way I won't have to keep adjusting the weights and having my circuit training ruined by an old lady who can't grasp the concept of an ordered circuit (THERE'S NUMBERS ON THE MACHINES).

Now if only there were someway to get rid of the creepy guy whose berries are hanging out of his shorts and the dude with all the tattoos who stares at me when I'm changing.


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## 9nr Domestic (14 Sep 2005)

There was a very similar case in Winnipeg, I will try look up the details tonight.


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## kincanucks (14 Sep 2005)

_Now if only there were someway to get rid of the creepy guy whose berries are hanging out of his shorts and the dude with all the tattoos who stares at me when I'm changing._

Damn they must have cloned these people as they are at my gym too.

Men Only and Women Only who gives a flying crap but there are people out there, both men and women, who think it is their fundamental right to go and do whatever they want.  A product of our "poor baby" society.


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## Mappy (14 Sep 2005)

I've never had a problem working out in the gym with the boys.  Infact when I was training for sprinting, I training WITH guys because it built up my speed.

However, its kind of a common trend (in my school gym) that girls are on cardio machines and boys on the weights.


My school also has a rule that no one is allowed to go topless or wear a tanktop (meaning Tshirts only) because of "body self-esteem".


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## Michael Dorosh (14 Sep 2005)

Mappy said:
			
		

> My school also has a rule that no one is allowed to go topless or wear a tanktop (meaning Tshirts only) because of "body self-esteem".



Also known as common decency in some circles...


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## Infanteer (14 Sep 2005)

I see this as retribution for the Men's Only golfclub that the ladies are crowing about.

Personally, I wouldn't set foot in a women's only gym - my mom goes to one and it is a bunch of soccer moms doing their soccer mom thing.


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## chrisf (14 Sep 2005)

Fighting... urge... to... use... four... letter... acronym.... starting... with... M....


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## paracowboy (14 Sep 2005)

personally, I don't see why anybody has the "right" to belong. If a buncha white guys want a "Whites Only", or a bunch of girls want a "Girls Only", or >insert whatever label< want a "Whatever Only" club, let 'em have at 'er. As long as they don't harm anyone else, it's nobody's business. It may be discrimanatory and narrow-minded, but if it's private property, and a private club, I don't see how it affects anyone else. 

And, I think women, especially, should be left alone to work out. You throw guys in, and we get women who won't exercise for a variety of reason. As a result, their health deteriorates. Leave 'em alone, for a couple hours a day! Sheesh! This guy's a putz. Somebody add some more Chlorox to the gene pool, please.


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## KevinB (14 Sep 2005)

Clorox added...


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## Mappy (14 Sep 2005)

Seriously, unless this womens only gym is the ONLY gym within the town....this guy is outta luck.


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## Lexi (14 Sep 2005)

I enjoy my women-only gym. 
I hate going to gyms of mixed gendres because of how little I feel next to the goddamn bodybuilders.
I don't like stares, I like going to the gym and not being noticed. 

I DON'T like some jerk walking up to me while I'm doing freeweights and saying "Aren't those a little heavy for you"?


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## Mappy (14 Sep 2005)

> I DON'T like some jerk walking up to me while I'm doing freeweights and saying "Aren't those a little heavy for you"?



Haha, thats happened to me before when I was training in track.  But I just lifted the weights, the guy saw how much I was lifting and went "wow" and moved on.

People underestimate my strength because of my size.


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## Lexi (14 Sep 2005)

Mappy said:
			
		

> Haha, thats happened to me before when I was training in track.  But I just lifted the weights, the guy saw how much I was lifting and went "wow" and moved on.
> 
> People underestimate my strength because of my size.



Exactly!
I'm rather short and people always assume I can't handle things because I lack a little when it comes to height.


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## GGHG_Cadet (14 Sep 2005)

Lexi said:
			
		

> Exactly!
> I'm rather short and people always assume I can't handle things because I lack a little when it comes to height.



Thats rather funny, I know a lot of people in your corp and there all pretty short...don't mean to offend you or anything.


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## nULL (14 Sep 2005)

Sure, men should be allowed to join. They wanted equality, now live with it. If you want privacy while working out, shut your eyes. (Just not on the treadmill!)


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## Strike (14 Sep 2005)

nULL said:
			
		

> Sure, men should be allowed to join. They wanted equality, now live with it. If you want privacy while working out, shut your eyes. (Just not on the treadmill!)



If that's the case than there should be no "Men Only" golf courses, or mens' clubs like the Masons (unless they allow women).


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## Island Ryhno (14 Sep 2005)

I think that's the context of nULL's post. The guy protesting the womans only club may be doing so only for attention. As in; if it's ok for women to protest against mens' only clubs and get in, why can't I protest against womens' only clubs and get in.


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## army_girl_69 (14 Sep 2005)

to reply on that yes they should be alowed to join woman into the gym, because when the woman do exercise well the men likes looking at it.... i know i was there and im still going to the gyms.


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## winchable (14 Sep 2005)

> or mens' clubs like the Masons



*Men wearing black suits jump out of nowhere kidnap Strike*


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## army_girl_69 (14 Sep 2005)

it might be embarrassed for some woman but just leave the men go


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## Burrows (14 Sep 2005)

Infanteer said:
			
		

> it is a bunch of soccer moms doing their soccer mom thing.



Bring on the minivans.


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## Glorified Ape (14 Sep 2005)

It wasn't men that started this "let me in" crap. I'm inclined to side with Null, though I also agree with men's/women's only clubs. I guess the way I see it is that women started this little descent into idiocy, so let them suffer equally from it. The only reason you don't see more of this stuff regarding 'women's only' organizations is that men generally have little interest (from what I've seen) in seeking membership in explicitly 'women's only' clubs whereas it seems _some_ women have an idiotic need to tag along behind us like the obnoxious little sister screaming "me too!! me too!". Hockey leagues, Boy Scouts (is nothing sacred?), golf clubs, etc. - EVERYWHERE. Leave us alone... jesus. 

I haven't noticed the feminazis screaming about "ladies night" which is probably one of the most pervasive and common sexist practices out there.  :


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## paracowboy (14 Sep 2005)

brief hijack


			
				Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> I haven't noticed the feminazis screaming about "ladies night" which is probably one of the most pervasive and common sexist practices out there.


not to mention, downright SCARY! I've bounced and tended bar here and there, and "Ladies' Night" or a bunch of women on a "Girl's Night Out" are frightening. And a little gross. Nuthin' sexy there. 

Side note: And, ladies, when the bouncer says "I'm married, I don't want to go to the bathroom with you", leave him alone.

end hijack


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## Fry (14 Sep 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> brief hijacknot to mention, downright SCARY! I've bounced and tended bar here and there, and "Ladies' Night" or a bunch of women on a "Girl's Night Out" are frightening. And a little gross. Nuthin' sexy there.
> 
> Side note: And, ladies, when the bouncer says "I'm married, I don't want to go to the bathroom with you", leave him alone.
> 
> end hijack



LOL, I've seen that too many times. Had that happen to me a couple of times as well when I worked at the club on campus.


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## camochick (14 Sep 2005)

army_girl_69 said:
			
		

> to reply on that yes they should be alowed to join woman into the gym, because when the woman do exercise well the men likes looking at it.... i know i was there and im still going to the gyms.



The reason why the world will go to hell in a few years. I always make sure on my run to show as much T and A as possible because I really want men to stare at me. No, I never run just for the health benefits.   :

I don't agree with femenazi's. I don't want special privledges, I don't want to join boys clubs. All I want is equal treatment, and a gym I can work out in without being gawked at by men. These gyms are not part of a feminist movement, they are there because women have self esteem issues. I say let him join that gym. See how long he last hehehehe (women are evil >)


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## Pea (15 Sep 2005)

camochick said:
			
		

> The reason why the world will go to heck in a few years. I always make sure on my run to show as much T and A as possible because I really want men to stare at me. No, I never run just for the health benefits.    :
> 
> I don't agree with femenazi's. I don't want special privledges, I don't want to join boys clubs. All I want is equal treatment, and a gym I can work out in without being gawked at by men. These gyms are not part of a feminist movement, they are there because women have self esteem issues. I say let him join that gym. See how long he last hehehehe (women are evil >)



I agree 100% with you camochick. I don't understand where this whole "gotta make myself look 'hot' no matter what I am doing, so the guys will look at me" attitude comes from. But I think it sucks. How about just doing something for yourself. When I run, I do it in the morning or night, in a pair of sweat pants and a sweat shirt. I probably look the worst at these times, but I feel damn comfortable and that's all that matters to me. 

Sure I admit, it's nice to be looked at from time to time. But like camochick said, girls have self esteem issues. Like I need to be worried about what the guy gawking at me is thinking, when I am trying to exercise to make myself feel better. (health & self esteem wise)

I find that the women only gyms are a comfortable place for me to go to exercise, and for once not feel like I am "on display".


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## Glorified Ape (15 Sep 2005)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> brief hijacknot to mention, downright SCARY! I've bounced and tended bar here and there, and "Ladies' Night" or a bunch of women on a "Girl's Night Out" are frightening. And a little gross. Nuthin' sexy there.
> 
> Side note: And, ladies, when the bouncer says "I'm married, I don't want to go to the bathroom with you", leave him alone.
> 
> end hijack



Indeed - especially when every one of them are the proverbial "grenades". The only thing scarier than the "grenade" in a group of semi-desirables is a group composed entirely of "grenades". On the other hand, none of the guys has to be the one to "jump on the grenade" since, if you're desperate enough, you're all doing it. Of course, then there are no heroes for the night. 




			
				camochick said:
			
		

> women are evil >



I doubt they'd do much if he got in. Maybe I'm weird but it's hard to wither under the stare of someone half your size that'd have a hard time reaching your nose, let alone bloodying it.


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## camochick (15 Sep 2005)

Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> I doubt they'd do much if he got in. Maybe I'm weird but it's hard to wither under the stare of someone half your size that'd have a hard time reaching your nose, let alone bloodying it.



Hey, i beg to differ, i'm 5'10. I'm sure i could get close to your nose hehe. I'm a feisty one too hehe. >


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## Mappy (15 Sep 2005)

> women are evil



I'm not that evil....muah hahaha


Seriously, If I'm working out, I really dont notice guys gawking at me.  But then again, I'm usually out of it when it comes to that stuff.

Haha, I also dont like Ladies night or whatever.  I just really dont like girls too much, which is why I live with guys.


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## Glorified Ape (15 Sep 2005)

camochick said:
			
		

> Hey, i beg to differ, i'm 5'10. I'm sure i could get close to your nose hehe. I'm a feisty one too hehe. >



Alright, that's it - outside right now. Me and you - wifflebats and corkscrews. 



			
				Mappy said:
			
		

> I'm not that evil....muah hahaha
> 
> 
> Seriously, If I'm working out, I really dont notice guys gawking at me.  But then again, I'm usually out of it when it comes to that stuff.
> ...



I've noticed that's an increasingly common sentiment amongst females... fortunately for you guys, not amongst us.  ;D


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## nULL (15 Sep 2005)

Since when is gawking in a gym specific to an individual's gender? Guys size each other up while working out all the time. _(Yes, occassionally that does entail checking out other guys' pipes!)_ 

So, it's ok to wear skimpy clothing and get gawked at by guys *everywhere else* but the gym is hallowed ground? I don't get that. Yeah, I could check out women wearing skimpy clothing in the gym...or I could wait a half hour until class starts and check them out while they are wearing even _less..._


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## Fry (15 Sep 2005)

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=feminazi



Maddox Comments on Nazi-Feminists



> Put on your bras, shave your armpits and quit your bitching.



BAWHHWAHAHW Hilarious!


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## camochick (15 Sep 2005)

Ape, i was thinking more of a kiddie pool and some baby oil, but wiffle bats and cork screws are cool too hehe.   >


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## Glorified Ape (15 Sep 2005)

Fry said:
			
		

> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=feminazi
> 
> 
> 
> ...



absolute... pure... gold. I've read that before but forgotten how good it is. That should be required reading at every educational institution everywhere, in every course, of every year/grade. 




			
				camochick said:
			
		

> Ape, i was thinking more of a kiddie pool and some baby oil, but wiffle bats and cork screws are cool too hehe.   >



No baby oil... bad experience. KY works though, just watch "Old School"... hopefully minus the heart-attack but you never know.


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## camochick (15 Sep 2005)

nULL said:
			
		

> So, it's ok to wear skimpy clothing and get gawked at by guys *everywhere else* but the gym is hallowed ground? I don't get that. Yeah, I could check out women wearing skimpy clothing in the gym...or I could wait a half hour until class starts and check them out while they are wearing even _less..._



Yeah but If you're an overweight or obese woman you probably don't go out in skimpy clothes(ok, i know some do and if they have the confidence.....). Women are constantly being bombarded with images of the perfect woman. We can't even go to a store without having some 5'11, 105pd model staring up at us from a magazine. For some women it can be intimidating to have to work out in front of men when they don't   have that (so called) perfect body. I guess for men it's not easy to understand but it happens. Thats why we prefer the womens only gyms. 
I for one understand the male need to stare. Being someone who well let's say, has plenty in the chestal area I know why a man would want to watch me run. I don't feel comfortable with it, but I understand.   >


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## Mappy (15 Sep 2005)

> Being someone who well let's say, has plenty in the chestal area I know why a man would want to watch me run



That reminds me of Gilmore Girls when a female character (Babette for those that are into GG) was running down the street and halfway to Lukes Diner, she grabs her chest while running.  It was freaking hilarous.


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## nULL (15 Sep 2005)

camochick said:
			
		

> Women are constantly being bombarded with images of the perfect woman. We can't even go to a store without having some 5'11, 105pd model staring up at us from a magazine. For some women it can be intimidating to have to work out in front of men *when they don't  have that (so called) perfect body. I guess for men it's not easy to understand* but it happens.



Q.) What's the difference?


a. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





b. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




c. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




d. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




A.) There is none, apparently, because both society and women have determined that all men have beautiful bodies and are not subject to names like "fat boy."


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## camochick (15 Sep 2005)

Yeah it hurts sometimes. You have to get a really good sports bra, sometimes two. There are perks to them though! Ok enough highjacking the thread with stories of the twins. Down with men at women's gyms. hehe >


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## Pea (15 Sep 2005)

nULL said:
			
		

> Since when is gawking in a gym specific to an individual's gender? Guys size each other up while working out all the time. _(Yes, occassionally that does entail checking out other guys' pipes!)_
> 
> So, it's ok to wear skimpy clothing and get gawked at by guys *everywhere else* but the gym is hallowed ground? I don't get that. Yeah, I could check out women wearing skimpy clothing in the gym...or I could wait a half hour until class starts and check them out while they are wearing even _less..._



I am not sure if your replying to my comments.. I never mentioned anything about wearing skimpy clothing though. I dress to be comfortable, not to impress. I never meant that its ok to be gawked at everywhere else but at the gym. I was just commenting that guys like to look at girls (and girls like to look at guys too) and I would rather not be stared at when I am trying to concentrate on something like working on my body, which I find can be uncomfortable at times. Don't get me wrong, I do understand why guys look at girls. (like camochick...I too have my fair share of chest)   I do check guys out too. But... I admit it, I am self conscious. I don't have that "perfect" body that is constantly being portrayed in the media, so sometimes I feel as if men look down on me for it. So a female only gym where I can go, and not have to wonder about what guys think of me is a good idea to me. Not that I care much what they think, but every once in a while it crosses my mind. 

But that's just my personal opinion, and I don't live my life worrying about what others think of me. So, if the mixed gender gym is closer to home, or better, then I will go there. I like guys, and enjoy being in their presence. But, for some activities I feel a little more comfortable doing them with females.


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## Glorified Ape (15 Sep 2005)

camochick said:
			
		

> Yeah but If you're an overweight or obese woman you probably don't go out in skimpy clothes(ok, i know some do and if they have the confidence.....). Women are constantly being bombarded with images of the perfect woman. We can't even go to a store without having some 5'11, 105pd model staring up at us from a magazine. For some women it can be intimidating to have to work out in front of men when they don't  have that (so called) perfect body. I guess for men it's not easy to understand but it happens. Thats why we prefer the womens only gyms.
> I for one understand the male need to stare. Being someone who well let's say, has plenty in the chestal area I know why a man would want to watch me run. I don't feel comfortable with it, but I understand.  >



The only thing I think when I see a girl running with bouncing boobs is "That must hurt." Stationary or in mild motion, they can be attractive, flying around, bouncing this way and that they're just funny/painful to see. 




			
				nULL said:
			
		

> Q.) What's the difference?
> 
> 
> a.
> ...



Exactly. I don't exactly feel bolstered when I'm in a co-ed gym and some absolutely RIPPED dude is making me look like a twig but I wouldn't say it upset me/makes me feel uncomfortable. Nor do I look at magazine covers with Brad Pitt or whoever on them and get all woozy with grief. 

The media advances uncommon body images of both sexes, but I don't seek seclusion from the opposite sex for fear that I may not measure up.


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## Pea (15 Sep 2005)

Glorified Ape said:
			
		

> The only thing I think when I see a girl running with bouncing boobs is "That must hurt." Stationary or in mild motion, they can be attractive, flying around, bouncing this way and that they're just funny/painful to see.
> 
> 
> Exactly. I don't exactly feel bolstered when I'm in a co-ed gym and some absolutely RIPPED dude is making me look like a twig but I wouldn't say it upset me/makes me feel uncomfortable. Nor do I look at magazine covers with Brad Pitt or whoever on them and get all woozy with grief.
> ...



You know what...it does hurt!! One downside to being a female. And your point about the seclusion from the opposite sex is a very good point.


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## Jarnhamar (15 Sep 2005)

I think it's a stupid thing.
Girls taking the boyscouts to court to let girls joint he boyscouts. How long was it before a girl actually joined?

I don't think it's a point of discrimination.
Theres clubs for boys and theres clubs for girls

Surprise surprise theres a difference between boys and girls.

Like whats next?  Should I get a lawyer to argue that i should be allowed to use a girls washroom?

Enough is enough

Girls want to work out without guys around. For fuck sakes let them.
Some girls feel uncomfortable working out near guys. So? Some guys feel uncomfortable working out with other guys. Thats why some gyms are the hard core weight lifter gyms and others are where us slugs go.

Guys can be pigs. Asshole guys making ignorant comments loud enough for the girls to hear them. Girl ignores them or whatever.  My wife used to go to a womans only gym. I really appriciated the fact she didnt have to deal with assholes.


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## Cloud Cover (15 Sep 2005)

I read in the National Post that the membership rules of the club in question do not explicitly exclude men, its just implied because it is called a "womens only" gym. Also, when the complainant asked to see the manager, he was apparently brought into another room where he was verbally assaulted by several women who threatened him and he claims to have been genuinely fearfull of an attack. When he lodged his complaint with the human rights commission, 2 individuals posing as police officers came to his residence and either beat him or attempted to beat him. The next day, he received threatening phone calls of more beatings. The police investigated, they found the complaint either founded or well founded, but have not yet laid charges.

On to the BC human rights commission. Generally, in Canada it is illegal to threaten someone after you have complained about their conduct to the human rights commission. Going from memory of the article in the post, when this guy filed the complaint about the threats and the beating, the human rights commission rejected the second complaint because he didn't attach a copy of the police report to the human rights complaint. Do you think the human rights commission would have done so if he was anything but a white male? Imagine a person of colour having their complaint about physical violence rejected because the paperwork was not in order? Don't think so, at least not in Canada and especially BC.

Apparently what will  be treated as evidence though, is this guys alleged membership in an organization which calls for equal treatment of fathers in family law/custody/support/divorce issues. Go figure, by the time the HRC is done with this case the gym will come out as the victim. Great country, eh? 

Last, what I have said is based on my recollection of an article I read 2 days ago, so I stand to be corrected. That being said, even if I have everything right, it is based on what was in the print media, and we all know that smart people should treat everything they read in the media with a fair degree of critical analysis and keep an eye open for bias in the writing.   [just like my post here ]

Actually, one final note for all consider: Despite the gravity of the situation the parties in this case find themselves in, it is truly spectacular that this very important issue is open to much more honest debate in this thread than the artificial, theoretical, tightly controlled grounds of a tribunal hearing, where truth can often legitimately be suppressed or excluded by operation of procedural law. We can consider ourselves lucky, unless the BCHRC objects to freedom of speech and freedom of expression of political and social belief. [which, they just might!!!].

Cheers all. Have a good work out!! ushup:


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## ThatsLife (15 Sep 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> A CTV news story out of Vancouver (I am looking for a link and story to put here).
> 
> CTV poll on the right:
> http://www.ctv.ca/canadaam
> ...




The reason there are women only gyms is because men usually tend to google at the ladies while they're running, or stretching or working out which raises the harassment level which women do not want to encounter. My girlfriend for one. She's been to the gym a few times and told me some guys were staring at her while she was stretching...women usually don't want this kind of attention when they're in a relationship or at all.

The man, in my opinion, is a moron for even stepping foot into the womens gym and asking for a membership.


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## camochick (15 Sep 2005)

ThatsLife said:
			
		

> The reason there are women only gyms is because men usually tend to google at the ladies while they're running, or stretching or working out which raises the harassment level which women do not want to encounter. My girlfriend for one. She's been to the gym a few times and told me some guys were staring at her while she was stretching...women usually don't want this kind of attention when they're in a relationship or at all.
> 
> The man, in my opinion, is a moron for even stepping foot into the womens gym and asking for a membership.



I stand by my early statement. The one with the world going to heck. :


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## Pea (15 Sep 2005)

camochick said:
			
		

> I stand by my early statement. The one with the world going to heck. :



I agree with ya!


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## Strike (15 Sep 2005)

Some people have brought up that scouts, hockey, etc, have allowed girls to join, and that a women only gym seems to go agains this trend.  You're right.  It does.  Of course, when we (the gym goers) were kids, there was NO girls hockey, and girls weren't allowed in Scouts.  We had to go to Brownies and Guides which, at the time, was tailored around events like making crafts and baking, not camping and hiking.

With the addition of girls into events that have been traditionally male, hopefully they will grow up into women that are more comfortable around men and won't have an issue about working out with them.  Until that happens, there certainly IS a place for a women only gym.  Personally, I avoid the Pet gym specifically for all those issues already mentioned.  When I work out the last thing I want to deal with is some guy ogling me.  If this were to happen only occasionally, it would be flatering.  But when it happens EVERY TIME, it gets tiresome.  I don't go to the gym to pick up.


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## George Wallace (15 Sep 2005)

Why don't we all admit it....North Americans are 'prudes'.  You would never see this controversy in Europe or South America.


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## Fry (15 Sep 2005)

I understand 100% where everyone's comming from and I agree totally. The men argue discrimination because it's women's only. 

However, I think that if this was a black only or heterosexual only, there would be more controversy... but when you think about it, Different gender, different race, if it's an "X" only club, where X can be anything, then it's an X only club! Stop whining! If you're not X, then they don't want you there anyway!


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## Jarnhamar (15 Sep 2005)

> Also, when the complainant asked to see the manager, he was apparently brought into another room where he was verbally assaulted by several women who threatened him and he claims to have been genuinely fearfull of an attack. When he lodged his complaint with the human rights commission, 2 individuals posing as police officers came to his residence and either beat him or attempted to beat him. The next day, he received threatening phone calls of more beatings. The police investigated, they found the complaint either founded or well founded, but have not yet laid charges.



This is a specific case though.  question was about men joining a womans gym. In the quote above it's a matter of criminal action and in said case my support goes to the guy.


You don't need to bring race into this.
I think theres a big difference between Female's only gym and whites only gyms.

When you bring race into the issue your blowing it out of perportion.
The conversation gets stupid and you argue semantics. Well what about if we had a gym for tall people only? What about a gym for (insert stupid comment here)

The point of a womans only gym is to give them privacy and make them feel comfortable. It's not saying whites only or no arabs. It's all women. Don't drag this thread into the mud.
Guys, a lot of guys, use gyms as yet another place to pick girls up.

We have seperate messes in the military.  NCMs and NCOs, SNCOs, Officers.  Why do we have seperate messes? were all soldiers after all? Why not one big mess?

Same reason as womans gyms. It's nice to have a little privacy


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## nULL (15 Sep 2005)

While I can understand the desire, if not the need, for women's only gyms, I think you're treading a dangerous line when it comes to justifying descimination with personal comfort. i.e. "we don't allow blacks here, it makes the clientel nervous"

I can see the need to seperate the sexes at an early age for the sake of encouraging personal development. But for God's sake, we are _adults._


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## Kat Stevens (15 Sep 2005)

:dontpanic: When are we going to wake up?   Feminazis don't want equality, they want Global Domination!   Men of planet Earth, unite!   Take up the torches and pitchforks now, before it's too late.   If not for you, then for your sons and grandsons... :dontpanic:


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## Fry (15 Sep 2005)

To each his/her own.



			
				Kat Stevens said:
			
		

> :dontpanic: When are we going to wake up?   Feminazis don't want equality, they want Global Domination!   Men of planet Earth, unite!   Take up the torches and pitchforks now, before it's too late.   If not for you, then for your sons and grandsons... :dontpanic:




BWHAWHHAWHAW yeah, I know... that article was quite hilarious though!


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## Strike (15 Sep 2005)

> You would never see this controversy in Europe or South America.



I doubt that -- case in point: the Cold Lake gym during Maple Flag.   Hit the weight room and certain Euro-men are gawking the whole time.   I tried to get away and went downstairs to hit/kick the bag in the martial arts room and the cat calls I had to put up with.

Edited for spelling -- meant to say *bag* instead of *back.*


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## George Wallace (15 Sep 2005)

Strike said:
			
		

> I doubt that -- case in point: the Cold Lake gym during Maple Flag.   Hit the weight room and certain Euro-men are gawking the whole time.   I tried to get away and went downstairs to hit/kick the back in the martial arts room and the cat calls I had to put up with.



I see we are looking at two different things here.   You are looking at men gawking and giving cat calls and I am looking at the differences in culture and that we are truly prudes in North America, whereas sexuality in other continents is treated much differently.   Look at the coed showers found in Scandinavia as one example, the coed sauna's found throughout Europe.   Now Ontario has allowed Topless sunbathing for women in public places (although many don't as yet feel comfortable in our prudish society to do so), something quite common on several continents.   You are interpreting the statement in a typical North American way.   While you interpret men gawking at you and giving you cat calls as an insult, some others may look at this as a form of compliment.   Perspective.  It boils down to your own confidence in who you are and self-esteem.


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## Island Ryhno (15 Sep 2005)

Well said George. We are such prudes that sexuality has become a taboo in North America. It's almost a crime to have, want or discuss sex. Silly really, I think we should all adapt the European attitude. And ladies, I'd like to request a googling, so make me feel better.  ;D


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## Kat Stevens (15 Sep 2005)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I see we are looking at two different things here.   You are looking at men gawking and giving cat calls and I am looking at the differences in culture and that we are truly prudes in North America, whereas sexuality in other continents is treated much differently.   Look at the coed showers found in Scandinavia as one example, the coed sauna's found throughout Europe.   Now Ontario has allowed Topless sunbathing for women in public places (although many don't as yet feel comfortable in our prudish society to do so), something quite common on several continents.   You are interpreting the statement in a typical North American way.   While you interpret men gawking at you and giving you cat calls as an insult, some others may look at this as a form of compliment.   Perspective.   It boils down to your own confidence in who you are and self-esteem.



The loud "pop" you just heard was the lid on a very large can of worms being opened... George, prepare to repel boarders  ;D


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## camochick (15 Sep 2005)

Whoooooo island ryhno, shake that....... Looking good. Yeah baby .

I totally agree that north americans are prudes. A woman can barely breast feed her baby without there being a scandal. It's sad because nakedness is fun. Heck, if they would let me I would never wear clothes. haha >


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## GNR (15 Sep 2005)

George, in what perspective would I assume it is a compliment to hear someone cat-calling my wife or daughters?

And yes European culture is more tollerant of the nudity, but go there and try to get away with cat-calling or other child-like and perverted acts and you'll quickly be taught the european "perspective".


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## winchable (15 Sep 2005)

They don't cat call so much as the ogle,
I went to a place in Portugal, which for all intents and purposes was a typical "european beach" and the younger men would never really say anything out loud but they would definetly stare quite intently and if they saw a girl they liked they would approach her without hesitation and normally the girl responded well or by behaving flirtatiously/sexually in eyeshot of the men.
I suppose in that sense they are less prude because they didn't slap the guy or cover up, but if anyone had shouted out something like "HEY BABY SHAKE IT" I think everyone there would've been disgusted by it.


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## Lexi (15 Sep 2005)

GGHG_Cadet said:
			
		

> Thats rather funny, I know a lot of people in your corp and there all pretty short...don't mean to offend you or anything.



Eaaasy there....   >


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## Mappy (15 Sep 2005)

> It's sad because nakedness is fun. Heck, if they would let me I would never wear clothes. haha [/quote
> 
> 
> ummmmm ok!


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## Glorified Ape (15 Sep 2005)

GNR said:
			
		

> George, in what perspective would I assume it is a compliment to hear someone cat-calling my wife or daughters?
> 
> And yes European culture is more tollerant of the nudity, but go there and try to get away with cat-calling or other child-like and perverted acts and you'll quickly be taught the european "perspective".



Never been to Italy, have you? My ex was there this past summer and, rest assured, cat-calling was alive and well. I should be so lucky that the greatest concern in my life is being "oggled" :


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## GNR (15 Sep 2005)

Yes, I have... a few times, as well as other parts of Europe.  I'm sorry to hear about your Ex's experience, I bet it was uncomfortable and p**sed her off.  I highly doubt she saw it as a compliment (as George suggested it was earlier).

It's all about respect for each other.  Cat-calling shows a lack of respect.

Don't get me wrong, there is no doubt if a woman is good looking, I am looking (not gawking).  But I have some self control and don't cat-call or act like a fool.   Promoting that kind of behaviour or calling complimenting is just enforcing zero respect for females.

And of course you have bigger concerns in your life than being "oggled", I doubt that is even on your list of concerns.


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## Fry (15 Sep 2005)

camochick said:
			
		

> Whoooooo island ryhno, shake that....... Looking good. Yeah baby .
> 
> I totally agree that north americans are prudes. A woman can barely breast feed her baby without there being a scandal. It's sad because nakedness is fun. Heck, if they would let me I would never wear clothes. haha >




I agree totally! (To walking around nude, not about Ryhno!! :dontpanic: )

There are 2 things I would love to wear for the rest of my life. A tux, and my birthday suit! LOL.


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## newrecruit (30 Dec 2006)

I'm not against those fitness centres, but I wonder what are they doing in there? I saw some females getting out of the gym after hard work calorie burning workout getting a juicy hot dog getting back those calories. Doesn't look healthy and  productive. Most fitness centres with that fancy fitness equipment are out there to make money, they don't care about wether you get in shape or not. I myself work at the fitness centre and noticed that most people work out on resistance machines, but no one would ever bother to use a pull up bar. People believe what fitness industry tell us that to get in shape we need some newly invented equipment. I myself prefer simple and effective exercises like pull-ups and push-ups. By the way how come the most attention is focused on the upper body? What about our legs? Can you do 100+ bodyweight squats? Most weightlifters believe that their squats are superior and they can perform bodyweight squats with ease. The point is to get in a good shape we don't need to spend our hard earned money to be really strong and in shape. Can you call a powerlifter strong if he can squat 500 pounds, but can't do 500 bodyweight squats. Again I apologize that I'm a little bit of topic, but that's how it is.


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## Good2Golf (30 Dec 2006)

Well, the guy's being an ass-hat, but it goes to make a point...girls can join boys scouts but boys can't join guides if they happen to like the activities better...BS double standard that we ingrain now on our children.  Anywho, I go to the gym to work out, point finale.  The guy should just go to the Y or something...but it's still BS

G2G


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## armyvern (31 Dec 2006)

And indeed he probably has gone to the gym by now....this threads over a year old!! 

Ahhh, to be back in Europe.


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## Good2Golf (31 Dec 2006)

The Librarian said:
			
		

> And indeed he probably has gone to the gym by now....*this threads over a year old*!!
> 
> Ahhh, to be back in Europe.



Crap, I didn't notice it was a necropost...shame on me for joining in!  :-\

G2G


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## Biggoals2bdone (18 Jun 2007)

I know this thread is old since i do have eyes and i can see dates....but this topic is very dear to me and i feel i must add my 2 cents.

1) i understand women's needs in competitive sports to want to be up against the best, and no disrespect ladies but thats why women try to get in men's leagues, im not trying to ruffle feathers but i know this will but its true, look at the olympics...the fastest times, longest distances etc...are held by men...so yeah it makes sense that when women want to be up against the best in lets say hockey they want to go play in the NHL, or whatever...but i don't think its right...i mean come on if that was the case we wouldnt have gender differenciation in the olympic games...women and men would compete together...well that would be the theory but comparing stats few women would make it to the olympics then...so the way i see it Feminists want "equality" when it benefits them...i.e closing down Men's only establishments (golf clubs, gyms, social clubs, etc) but when it actually has drawbacks for them they quite pointedly avoid the subject.

We have clubs of men only or women only because like someone quoted Sean Connery saying we like being among our peers and not have to "reign in" our behaviour to accomodate the opposite sex...i.e guys like to get together and watch football, swear, drink, scratch etc, as soon as you throw a woman in the mix...its less fun for us...well... > ok lets not get into that lol...

So basically if the lil girls in Brownies or whatever wanna do more hiking or camping or stuff like that they should bring it up with the people in charge...instead of weasling in to the boyscouts, and vice versa.

Personally my best friend played hockey and out of his whole league there was 1 team of all girls that had just been recently added....well you know what no other team in the league liked playing them because they weren't allowed to play hockey (no checking, swearingand all other hockey stuff)...NO one can say that there is no difference between women's hockey and men's anyone who does clearly is deaf and blind.

2) I am totally against AND for women's only gym...against them because i find them unfair, in that whenever a men's only club is to be found or opened women are up in arms trying to shut it down...and then bang 2 weeks later a women's only club for something opens...REAP WHAT YOU SEW...you want equality to bad deal with...you can for something and then say oh but we didnt want all the "bad" things that came with it.  I am against the principle...if women want gyms, social clubs etc exclusively to women...they should leave EVERY men's club the "F" alone...if they want to have their own clubs thats fine with me but then they cant go around b!tching and moaning trying to close down men's only clubs.  I am FOR women's only gyms...because then that means less waiting around while lil suzie Q does her umpteenth set of lil pink dumbbell exercises on the bench that 10 other ppl are wanting to use, whom she won't let work in...ya okay some people might say im out of the ordinary when it comes to the gym well im proud of that being an amateur bodybuilder (and aspiring powerlifter) when i train its chalk, straps, more chalk, grunting, psyching up, heavy breathing and even OOH NO some swearing and a few hundred pounds of slag iron...so yeah you know what sometimes its not just women in the gym im annoyed with...but mostly them...mind you i've seen 1 or 2 women in the gym kick ass but they are rare.

So you know what in the end if it gets them out of my gym sure what the hell let them have their women only gym...they could take the guys that train like em too, was up to me...like i said though if they do have them then they can't be HYPOCRITES like they are being now.

And you know what some guys feel uncomfortable and less then masculine perfection in the gym in front of women too...so women cannot use that excuse claiming they have the monopoly over it....just like the media is full of what is the ideal masculine physique....men i guess just arent as neurotic about it....i mean come on there are both male and female models (but then again i find male models look like women) and there are top 100 sexiest men and women....and watch movies you get all kinds of images of both sexes....boobs....rock hard six packs...long smooth legs....big arms.....tight buns.....broad shoulders....so again its there for men just as much as women...

getting offa my soap box


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## stealthylizard (18 Jun 2007)

There are also the gyms that cater to "overweight" women, like Curves for Women.  Having lived in small towns most of my life, I have no idea if there are similar gyms for overweight men in city centres.  Most gyms I have been to are full of guys that look like Adonis clones, lol.  Again being in a small town, not much choice for the guys.  A gym for guys that focuses on obtaining the perfect body type, but no programs for weight loss.... or a woman's only gym that focuses on weight loss, but overweight guys aren't allowed to join.


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## Cdn Blackshirt (18 Jun 2007)

I think women's clubs are necessary for some of the reason listed above, but I also believe as soon as you create that standard that gender can be use as a determinant in deciding upon eligibility "due to the psychological impact upon the membership", I think it's very reasonable to argue men's clubs should be allowed to exist as well as often men are looking for opportunities to escape too.


Matthew.


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## Greymatters (18 Jun 2007)

Biggoals, although some, and only some, of your points are valid, you are stereotyping all women into one collective "bitching-moaning-wanting-both-pieces-of-cake-and-eating-it-too" stereotypes.  Just because a small group of women aree in your opinion hypocrites for closing down all-male clubs doesnt mean all women are hypocrites. 

Now let me give you some input from the fairer sex based on comments from my wife and her friends on this issue.

1) Most women like going to the gym to get fit, not to be ogled and assessed by every male in the joint.  
2) Women are already self-conscious about their personal image and body size.  They dont want male comments. 
3) Dressing in a tight gym bodysuit does not equal 'loose' or 'open to offers', nor does it mean we are looking for dates.  
4) Catcalls and other sexually rude comments have been made illegal by law and most company policies, but men still do it, and expect women to accept it.  Wrong. 
5) Part of going to a gym is to be with other women with similiar interests (and problems).  Male mockery of women's discussions are not appreciated. 
6) Men are nowhere near as amusing as they think they are (i.e. saying things they think are amusing followed up by an infantile laugh at their own humour).
7) Telling women they are wusses for not doing more or heavier reps is not appreciated. 
8) Some women are highly concerned over being sexually assaulted or worse.  An all-female gym severely limits this possibility. 
9) Some women eat a 'treat' after training in the gym.  So what?  Men drink beer after playing a ball game.   
10) Both men and women sweat and not all members clean up afterwar themselves.  In the end, male sweat is grosser than female sweat.  Eww. 

As a final point, they have no objection to men's fitness or sports clubs, what they object to are mens clubs that are used as tools for business deals, hiring people, and deciding promotions.


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## Cdn Blackshirt (18 Jun 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Biggoals, although some, and only some, of your points are valid, you are stereotyping all women into one collective "bitching-moaning-wanting-both-pieces-of-cake-and-eating-it-too" stereotypes.  Just because a small group of women aree in your opinion hypocrites for closing down all-male clubs doesnt mean all women are hypocrites.
> 
> Now let me give you some input from the fairer sex based on comments from my wife and her friends on this issue.
> 
> ...



Sort of like Women's Business Associations?  Is their specific objective not to advance promotion of women and network with one another at the expense of male-owned businesses and colleagues?


Matthew.


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## Greymatters (18 Jun 2007)

Cdn Blackshirt said:
			
		

> Sort of like Women's Business Associations?  Is their specific objective not to advance promotion of women and network with one another at the expense of male-owned businesses and colleagues?



Hmmm.  From knowing a few who belong to such org's, their point of view is that they are a more of a 'protective group' acting in mutual support against a business world that is still male-orientated and still prejudiced towards keeping women out of business.  I agree though, its the same as having a male-only club isnt it? 

If you want to argue more about this you'll have to find a current member and seek their detailed opinion.  I can only comment on what they have said to me on the subject based on my own queries and discussions.


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## Cdn Blackshirt (18 Jun 2007)

I provide consulting services to a number of women who belong to groups and I was speaking from knowledge.  There's a definite "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" philosophy that exists to the point where some women will not subcontract male-owned suppliers....I admit they're on the radical fringe, but I would contend that based on my business dealings the anti-women outlook (glass ceilings) exist in very few places anymore, and those dinosaurs that still behave that way are both very near to retirement, and are smart enough due to legal considerations to keep their archaic opinions to themselves.

Of note, I'm 33 and just about all my friends are consultants and or independent business owners and candidly none of care if a candidate is male, female, gay, black, white, green, purple or blue.  All we're looking for is low-emotional maintenance, competency in their area of expertise and a character that makes them ill to miss a deadline.

In that context, the anti-white male PC mafia out there that have established quotas and double-standard rules just pisses us off....which candidly is why more and more white males are going the entrepreneurial route, because we're not treated fairly in large corporations at this point (which is to say selection processes are neither gender nor racially neutral - I have two friends who are independent head-hunters who can attest to this).


Matthew.


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## PMedMoe (18 Jun 2007)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> I am FOR women's only gyms...because then that means less waiting around while lil suzie Q does her umpteenth set of lil pink dumbbell exercises on the bench that 10 other ppl are wanting to use, whom she won't let work in...



And some guys don't do that, too?



			
				Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> when i train its chalk, straps, more chalk, grunting, psyching up, heavy breathing and even OOH NO some swearing and a few hundred pounds of slag iron



Some news for you, lots of women swear and lots of men don't.



			
				Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> So you know what in the end if it gets them out of my gym sure what the hell let them have their women only gym...they could take the guys that train like em too, was up to me...



Guys that train like them too? Like what?  Everybody trains differently, depending on what they are training for.  Not everyone wants to be a bodybuilder.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (18 Jun 2007)

Biggoals2bdone 

Someday, when you are a little more sure of your masculinity, you will read the type of crap you wrote above and you will want to throat punch yourself......


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## Munxcub (18 Jun 2007)

I don't care who trains at my gym as long as they aren't using the squat stands for wrist curls! (or any curls for that matter...)


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## medaid (18 Jun 2007)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Biggoals2bdone
> 
> Someday, when you are a little more sure of your masculinity, you will read the type of crap you wrote above and you will want to throat punch yourself......



hehehehe... 'myself only, will throat punch by squads. Squad 1! *rasp rasp*'


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## Biggoals2bdone (18 Jun 2007)

You know bruce...i didnt insult you, i merely stated my opinion like these msg boards are there for...you don't have to be an a$$ clown with these stupid lil quippy comments about my masculinity...

im sorry you are homophobic and think bodybuilders are all insecure with there masculinity...thats your narrow-minded problem...would you say the same thing to NHL players, or NBA players for wanting to be the best at what they do...no i don't think so.

I don't know how my masculinity has anything to do with me not liking certain things about women in gyms (in general i already stated there were exceptions) and i also don't know how masculinity relates to this so called notion of equality feminists are preaching...

so do the world a favour and throat punch yourself for all of us...

P.S i know you are going to probably edit this comment because you are a mod or something...and you know what if you do thats your perogative...but not letting someone defend themselves when someone trash talks them for no good reason is pretty low.


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## Yrys (18 Jun 2007)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> You know bruce...i didnt insult you, i merely stated my opinion like these msg boards are there for...you don't have to be an a$$ clown with these stupid lil quippy comments about my masculinity...
> 
> im sorry you are homophobic and think bodybuilders are all insecure with there masculinity...



That is really *NOT* my perception of what he said !!!


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## scoutfinch (18 Jun 2007)

Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> You know bruce...i didnt insult you, i merely stated my opinion like these msg boards are there for...you don't have to be an a$$ clown with these stupid lil quippy comments about my masculinity...
> 
> im sorry you are homophobic and think bodybuilders are all insecure with there masculinity...thats your narrow-minded problem...would you say the same thing to NHL players, or NBA players for wanting to be the best at what they do...no i don't think so.
> 
> ...



Capitals.  Punctuation.  Use them.  They are your friends.


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## Biggoals2bdone (18 Jun 2007)

Yes, thank you...move on to adding something important.

Merci pour avoir sortie.


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## Michael OLeary (18 Jun 2007)

Biggoals, rein in the attitude or the only thing that will be moving on is you.

Army.ca Staff


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## George Wallace (18 Jun 2007)

May be time for the Cleaning Crew to come in and do some pruning.   :


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## Biggoals2bdone (18 Jun 2007)

Michael O'Leary, i would like to send you a PM...but can't seem to please indicate how I may contact you without posting in the forums, thank you.

George: what would like to prune? I'm guessing you mean edit/censor, correct?
No im not trying to pick a fight, im actually very curious what you would like to cut out of this debate.


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## 284_226 (18 Jun 2007)

I think this topic may have been inadvertently revived because of this recent story in the news:

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=b01a603a-ce18-4cea-9ffe-fd66b819cae1&k=36708

which occurred as a result of this:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070530/gay_bar_070530/20070530

Edit:  add second link


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## Armymedic (18 Jun 2007)

No.

And lets not let common sence and himan decency fall to the wayside in thinking all peoples are created equal and are looked at with the same thought in mind. Self serving news makers need not apply.


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## Fry (18 Jun 2007)

Now that I think about it... men should not be allowed to join women-only gyms and vice versa. If the gym is a specific gender, leave it and find one that is suitable for you. Women may be uncomfortable with guys scoping them out and just want to work out in a comfortable environment.


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## George Wallace (18 Jun 2007)

Fry said:
			
		

> Now that I think about it... men should not be allowed to join women-only gyms and vice versa. If the gym is a specific gender, leave it and find one that is suitable for you. Women may be uncomfortable with guys scoping them out and just want to work out in a comfortable environment.



Oh! Come on!  Men would never do anything like that.


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## armyvern (18 Jun 2007)

Oh please,

What do you think keeps me occupied as I ride the stationary bike or run the treadmill??

It isn't gawking at the posters on the wall.

We girls check out the human scenery too; that's not a male-dominated domain!!


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## Fry (18 Jun 2007)

Prehaps you're an exception Vern


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## armyvern (18 Jun 2007)

Fry said:
			
		

> Prehaps you're an exception Vern



Exceptional?? No. _Special_?? Perhaps!!  ;D


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## Bruce Monkhouse (18 Jun 2007)

"Special" can be such a fun word......


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## Greymatters (18 Jun 2007)

Vern, since you're in this one, what is your opinion on the 10 points listed earlier?


----------



## armyvern (19 Jun 2007)

GreyMatter said:
			
		

> Vern, since you're in this one, what is your opinion on the 10 points listed earlier?





> 1) Most women like going to the gym to get fit, not to be ogled and assessed by every male in the joint.


No, but although we'll never admit, deep down ... we get a kick out of it when it happens. We'll just tell you the opposite.


> 2) Women are already self-conscious about their personal image and body size.  They dont want male comments.


Absolutely true. I'm most definitely one of them. But sometimes, a comment (not necessarily in a gym) can make me feel better quickly.


> 3) Dressing in a tight gym bodysuit does not equal 'loose' or 'open to offers', nor does it mean we are looking for dates.


That's true. But I find shorts and a t-shirt work just as well, and are actually much cooler to work out in ... I save the form fitting suits for the pool. 


> 4) Catcalls and other sexually rude comments have been made illegal by law and most company policies, but men still do it, and expect women to accept it.  Wrong.


Then we walk right into the locker room and discuss the pecs and butt on so and so and so and so. It's the truth.


> 5) Part of going to a gym is to be with other women with similiar interests (and problems).  Male mockery of women's discussions are not appreciated.


Just, as I'm sure, our women's mockery in the locker room of "Oh my gawd he had shoulders like a brook trout...or someone stole that guys ass" wouldn't be appreciated by the men.


> 6) Men are nowhere near as amusing as they think they are (i.e. saying things they think are amusing followed up by an infantile laugh at their own humour).


Yet, we women giggle like idiots at our 'amusing' comments regarding the male anatomy in the locker room and think that's _OK_.


> 7) Telling women they are wusses for not doing more or heavier reps is not appreciated.


Nor is it appreciated when one tells that to a man. This remark is RTFO of it.


> 8) Some women are highly concerned over being sexually assaulted or worse.  An all-female gym severely limits this possibility.


What!!?? Because they're working out in a gym??!! Does this increase the chances of being raped?? OMG ... me thinks some women may perhaps flatter themselves too much.


> 9) Some women eat a 'treat' after training in the gym.  So what?  Men drink beer after playing a ball game.


Again, I fail to see what this has to do with separate gyms. It's just not relevant to the situation at all. Men snack after working out too on power bars etc. Women need a special place to do this?? Or are they "treating themselves to 5 litres of cookie dough ice cream?? If that's the case, they ain't doing it in the damn gym anyway.


> 10) Both men and women sweat and not all members clean up afterwar themselves.  In the end, male sweat is grosser than female sweat.  Eww.


Bull crap.

There you have it.

11) Women can be hypocrites. 

They like to think they're special. When, in actuality, we're just different. Not special at all. One day, I hope we get over ourselves.

And with that, _me thinks _that the assumption that men, or even a small minority of men, would act in this way if a woman were working out in the gym is pure BS. 

Again, the ones that assume that it's going to happen to them, perhaps overcredit themselves and their ability to draw a man's attention in the first place. And ... if that's the case, they've got no damn complexs to stop them working out in the same gym as a man.


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## Cdn Blackshirt (19 Jun 2007)

Dear ArmyVern, 

Will you marry me?


Matthew.   ;D


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## Yrys (19 Jun 2007)

Cdn Blackshirt said:
			
		

> Dear ArmyVern,
> 
> Will you marry me?



You should ask her husband !


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## scoutfinch (19 Jun 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> No, but although we'll never admit, deep down ... we get a kick out of it when it happens. We'll just tell you the opposite.Absolutely true. I'm most definitely one of them. But sometimes, a comment (not necessarily in a gym) can make me feel better quickly.That's true. But I find shorts and a t-shirt work just as well, and are actually much cooler to work out in ... I save the form fitting suits for the pool.
> Then we walk right into the locker room and discuss the pecs and butt on so and so and so and so. It's the truth.
> Just, as I'm sure, our women's mockery in the locker room of "Oh my gawd he had shoulders like a brook trout...or someone stole that guys ***" wouldn't be appreciated by the men.Yet, we women giggle like idiots at our 'amusing' comments regarding the male anatomy in the locker room and think that's _OK_.
> Nor is it appreciated when one tells that to a man. This remark is RTFO of it.
> ...



While I generally agree with Vern, I have to disagree on this issue.  When I go to the gym, I do not appreciate male comments nor do I want to deal with unwanted attention. I am there to get a job done.  I also don't like the 'unsolicited advice' that is given by various muscleheads who feel the need to tell me how I can 'do' it better.  That being said, the overwhelming majority of guys that are at the gym are also there to get a  job done and not to oggle or make comments.  But there is every once in a while there is one clown who has to ruin it.....

And rape has NOTHING to do with how a woman looks at the gym or anywhere else.

... all of which goes to show that women -- like men -- are individuals and can not be lumped together and assumed to have the same view point on issues.


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## Strike (19 Jun 2007)

Must wade in here.

I have absolutely no problems with private clubs/gyms having some sort of gender segregation.  Again, keep it private!

There is one comment I need to reply to though...



			
				Biggoals2bdone said:
			
		

> 1) i understand women's needs in competitive sports to want to be up against the best, and no disrespect ladies but thats why women try to get in men's leagues, im not trying to ruffle feathers but i know this will but its true, look at the olympics...the fastest times, longest distances etc...are held by men...so yeah it makes sense that when women want to be up against the best in lets say hockey they want to go play in the NHL, or whatever...but i don't think its right...i mean come on if that was the case we wouldnt have gender differenciation in the olympic games...women and men would compete together...well that would be the theory but comparing stats few women would make it to the olympics then...so the way i see it Feminists want "equality" when it benefits them...i.e closing down Men's only establishments (golf clubs, gyms, social clubs, etc) but when it actually has drawbacks for them they quite pointedly avoid the subject...
> 
> Personally my best friend played hockey and out of his whole league there was 1 team of all girls that had just been recently added....well you know what no other team in the league liked playing them because they weren't allowed to play hockey (no checking, swearingand all other hockey stuff)...NO one can say that there is no difference between women's hockey and men's anyone who does clearly is deaf and blind...



The first organized women's hockey game was in 1891, long before checking was part of the game.  And last time I checked, hockey was a physical sport, not one challenging verbal repartee of the players, so why should swearing be considered important to be able to play the game?

By the way, Equestrian and Sailing are mixed gender in the Olympics.

I've also competed in mixed gender shooting competitions which were dominated by women.

Biggoals, although I understand your frustration with these segregated clubs/gyms and the stupidity of someone complaining about them, you can not compare them to segregation in competitive sports if someone can compete at a higher level and wishes to improve their techniques.  They are two completely different ball games, so to speak... ;D


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## Greymatters (19 Jun 2007)

Vern, thanks for the reply, looks like a very different outlook on the issue!


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