# Rick Mercer Fights Back!



## simysmom99

I found this link after Rick told us he had written a letter in response to a lady in St. John's.  As always, he is funny and behind our troops (and my family) 100%.  Enjoy the read.
http://www.theindependent.ca/article.asp?AID=1333&ATID=6

MOD EDIT: Just wanted to put the article in your post in case the link ever changes/disappears.

By Courtesy (St. John's)
The Independent
Friday, January 26, 2007

By Rick Mercer
For The Independent

Poor Noreen Golfman. She wrote in her Jan. 12 column (Blowing in the Wind … ) that her holidays were ruined by what she felt were incessant reports about Canadian men and women serving in Afghanistan. So upset was Noreen that, armed with her legendary pen, sharpened from years in the trenches at Memorial University’s women’s studies department, she went on the attack. I know I should just ignore the good professor and write her off as another bitter baby boom academic pining for what she fondly calls “the protest songs of yesteryear,” but I can’t help myself. A response is exactly what she wants; and so I include it here. After all, Newfoundlanders have seen this before: Noreen Golfman, sadly, is Margaret Wente without the wit. 

Dear Noreen,

I am so sorry to hear about the interruption to your holiday cheer. You say in your column that it all started when the CBC ran a story on some “poor sod” who got his legs blown off in Afghanistan.

The “poor sod” in question, Noreen, has a name and it is Cpl. Paul Franklin. He is a medic in the Forces and has been a buddy of mine for years. I had dinner with him last week in Edmonton, in fact. I will be sure to pass on to him that his lack of legs caused you some personal discomfort this Christmas.

Paul is a pretty amazing guy. You would like him I think. When I met him years ago he had two good legs and a brutally funny sense of humour. He was so funny that I was pretty sure he was a Newfoundlander. You probably know the type (or maybe you don’t) — salt of the earth, always smiling, and like so many health-care professionals, seemingly obsessed with helping others in need. 

These days he spends his time training other health-care workers and learning how to walk again. That’s a pretty exhausting task for Paul … heading into rehabilitation he knew very well his chances of walking again were next to none, considering he’s a double amputee, missing both legs above the knee. 

At the risk of ruining your day Noreen, I’m proud to report that for the last few months he has managed to walk his son to school almost every morning and it’s almost a kilometre from his house. Next month Paul hopes to travel to Washington where he claims he will learn how to run on something he calls “bionic flipper cheetah feet.” The legs may be gone but the sense of humour is still very much intact. 

Forgive me Noreen for using Paul’s name so much, but seeing as you didn’t catch it when CBC ran the profile on his recovery I thought it might be nice if you perhaps bothered to remember it from here on in. This way, when you are pontificating about him at a dinner party, you no longer have to refer to him simply as the “poor sod,” but you can actually refer to him as Paul Franklin. You may prefer “poor sod” of course; it’s all a matter of how you look at things. You see a “poor sod” that ruined your Christmas and I see a truly inspiring guy. That’s why I am thrilled that the CBC saw fit to run a story on Paul and his wife Audra. I would go so far as to suggest that many people would find their story, their marriage and their charitable endeavours inspiring. Just as I am sure that many readers of The Independent are inspired by your suggestion that Paul’s story has no place on the public broadcaster.

Further on in your column you ask why more people aren’t questioning Canada’s role in Afghanistan. I understand this frustration. It’s a good question. Why should Canada honour its United Nations-sanctioned NATO commitments? Let’s have the discussion. I would welcome debate on the idea that Canada should simply ignore its international obligations and pull out of Afghanistan. By all means ask the questions Noreen, but surely such debates can occur without begrudging the families of injured soldiers too much airtime at Christmas?

Personally, I would have thought that as a professor of women’s studies you would be somewhat supportive of the notion of a NATO presence in Afghanistan. After all, it is the NATO force that is keeping the Taliban from power. In case you missed it Noreen, the Taliban was a regime that systematically de-peopled women to the point where they had no human rights whatsoever. This was a country where until very recently it was illegal for a child to fly a kite or for a little girl to receive any education. 

To put it in terms you might understand Noreen, rest assured the Taliban would frown on your attending this year’s opening night gala of the St. John’s International Women’s Film Festival. In fact, as a woman, a professor, a writer and (one supposes) an advocate of the concept that women are people, they would probably want to kill you three or four times over. Thankfully that notion is moot in our cozy part of the world but were it ever come to pass I would suggest that you would be grateful if a “poor sod” like Paul Franklin happened along to risk his life to protect yours. 

And then of course you seem to be somehow personally indignant that I would visit troops in Afghanistan over Christmas. You ask the question “When did the worm turn?” Well I hate to break it to you, but in my case this worm has been doing this for a long time now. It’s been a decade since I visited Canadian peacekeeping operations in Bosnia and this Christmas marked my third trip to Afghanistan. Why do I do it? Well I am not a soldier — that much is perfectly clear. I don’t have the discipline or the skills. But I am an entertainer and entertainers entertain. And occasionally, like most Canadians, I get to volunteer my professional time to causes that I find personally satisfying. 

As a Newfoundlander this is very personal to me. On every one of these trips I meet Newfoundlanders who serve proudly in the Canadian Forces. Every day they do the hard work that we as a nation ask of them. They do this without complaint and they do it knowing that at every turn there are people like you, Noreen, suggesting that what they do is somehow undignified or misguided. 

I am also curious Noreen why you refer to the head of the Canadian Forces, General Rick Hillier, as “Rick ‘MUN graduate’ Hillier.” I would suggest that if you wish to criticize General Hillier’s record of leadership or service to his country you should feel free. He is a big boy. However, when you dismiss him as “Rick ‘MUN Graduate’ Hillier” the message is loud and clear. Are you suggesting that because General Hillier received an education at Memorial he is somehow unqualified for high command? We are used to seeing this type of tactic in certain national papers — not The Independent.

You end by saying you personally cannot envision that peace can ever be paved with military offensives. May I suggest to you that in many instances in history peace has been achieved exactly that way. 

The gates of Auschwitz were not opened with peace talks. Holland was not liberated by peacekeepers and fascism was not defeated with a deft pen. Time and time again men and women in uniform have laid down their lives in just causes and in an effort to free others from oppression. 

It is unfortunate, Noreen, that in such instances people like yourself may have your sensitivities offended, especially during the holiday season, but perhaps that is a small price to pay. Best wishes for the remainder of 2007; may it be a year of peace and prosperity.


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## Trinity

+1 Rick


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## beach_bum

What an excellent article.


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## Pea

Way to go Rick!


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## Cardstonkid

Great response.


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## Ex-Dragoon

I wonder if she will dare and respond?


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## Mike Baker

Bravo Rick! Hat's off to you, with such a great piece of work!    

Makes me proud to be from Newfoundland!  ;D


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## Journeyman

Oh that is _definitely_ going to be posted around work tomorrow.    ;D

If she does respond, she's certain to mention Mercer being appointed HCol --  he's part of the "war machine" now  

Update: I've received two additional copies of this from DND offices in two different time zones; word spreads fast (and/or we have _several_ military people surfing here during office hours   )


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## gaspasser

Wow, Am I ever glad that I am not Noreen!  Rick certainly can write.  Kudos to Rick for that rebuttal in the papers in support of the Canadian Forces. I read that to my wife, who is a Newfie and we both had lumps in our throats.


I didn't know that Paul was walking within one year.  Such self dedication, self motivation and personal valour!!!    
May it inspire us all!


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## observor 69

Reminds me of a comment I heard a while ago, never go head to head with Mercer it's like going into a fight without a weapon.  ;D

Congrats to Rick for a superb article.


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## Ex-Dragoon

Does anyone have Noreens column where she decided to declare war on the CF?


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## GAP

That was really satisfying.....hmmmm. Good on Rick


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## armyvern

Rick rocks. +10 to him.


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## lint

I :heart: Rick Mercer


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## Navy_Blue

For the love of Pete someone get that man the Order of Canada!!

100% true canadian..


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## observor 69

Check this out :
Thursday, December 28, 2006
Christmas in Flak Jackets 

http://rickmercer.blogspot.com/

Enjoy  ;D


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## xo31@711ret

Way to go Rick   ! Tell 'er like it is   ! and..

Long may yer big jib draw!

Pro Patria
      &
Militi Securimus


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## Colin Parkinson

Man it's like someone opened the door and let the fresh air in, a CBC comedian ripping someone a new one for insulting one of our troops. Canada is slowly getting better!


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## Hockeycaper

Great response Rick.......... are you sure your not from Cape Breton   , because *We * are so eloquent with words and detailed responses. >


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## 211RadOp

Well done sir  

Makes me feel good to have someone of your calibre on our side.


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## GUNS

Rick,

Next time you grace our shores(Newfoundland), the drinks are on me.

Thank you for your defence of our troops.


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## Pampers

Well said, sir.


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## Justacivvy

_"The gates of Auschwitz were not opened with peace talks. Holland was not liberated by peacekeepers and fascism was not defeated with a deft pen. Time and time again men and women in uniform have laid down their lives in just causes and in an effort to free others from oppression." 
_

Well said Rick


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## JesseWZ

I think if Rick Mercer visits any Canadian Base, Station, Wing, or Ship the drinks will be on us.
(Plus we get to salute him now)


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## PMedMoe

Awesome guy, always behind the troops.


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## brihard

Damn. Just damn.

As my generation tends to put it, "Owned."


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## 3rd Herd

WOW, sometimes, the pen is mightier than the sword. Excellent Rick ! I wonder if the monitors/snoops/information gatherers from mainstream media who lurk on this site will see to more exposure than just the university bulletin boards. But then university bulletin boards are a good starting point.


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## niner domestic

For his nomination for The Order Of Canada, it's quite simple:  http://www.gg.ca/honours/nat-ord/oc/oc-info_e.asp

I'll start the process...any helpers?


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## midget-boyd91

niner domestic said:
			
		

> For his nomination for The Order Of Canada, it's quite simple:  http://www.gg.ca/honours/nat-ord/oc/oc-info_e.asp
> 
> I'll start the process...any helpers?



From gg.ca


> The Chancellery of Honours keeps all nominations confidential to respect privacy and to avoid disappointment if the nominee is not selected. We ask that nominators and others involved respect this policy.



Shhh.. nobody mention that we've got this "nomination march" going for Rick.

+1 Rick


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## George Wallace

Go to the GG's site:  http://www.gg.ca/honours/nom/index_e.asp 

Order of Canada
Eligibility and Nominations
Any person or group is welcome to nominate a deserving individual as candidate for appointment to the Order of Canada. Nomination forms are available from the Chancellery, Rideau Hall, Ottawa, ON, K1A 0A1. There is no posthumous award. 

The Chancellery of Honours keeps all nominations confidential to respect privacy and to avoid disappointment if the nominee is not selected. We ask that nominators and others involved respect this policy.

The Order of Canada nomination form is also available in Adobe Acrobat format. You must have the Acrobat Reader, which is available at: http://www.adobe.com, to view the document. 

Full version (cover and form)
Basic version (in HTML format)

Nominations should be accompanied by biographical notes detailing the career and achievements of the nominee. It is helpful to include the names of persons who would support the nomination and who could provide information about why the individual deserves the honour.

There is no deadline for nominations, as it is an on-going process. It takes a year to a year and a half for the nomination to be submitted to the Advisory Council for the Order of Canada.The average number of nominations received in recent years has been approximately 700-800 per year.

All Canadians are eligible for the Order of Canada, with the exception of federal and provincial politicians and judges while in office. There are no posthumous appointments. Officers and Members may be elevated within the Order in recognition of further achievement, based on continued exceptional or extraordinary service to Canada. Usually, promotions are considered five years after the first appointment.

The Order’s constitution permits non-Canadians to be considered for honorary appointments. They may be considered for outstanding achievement that reflects honour on Canada and/or lifetime contributions to humanity at large.


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## CrazyCanuck

Hey if we can't get him an Order of Canada maybe an Honourary subscription to Army.ca is in order 

Way to go Rick!


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## scas

SO how do we go about doing this?


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## Trogdor

Awesome reploy Rick.  One nomination is going his way.

Also what unit is he HCol of?  Ima salute him next time I see him.

Great news about Paul, wasn't he MCpl though?!


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## NL_engineer

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Update: I've received two additional copies of this from DND offices in two different time zones; word spreads fast (and/or we have _several_ military people surfing here during office hours   )



There are many ;D

Hats off for Rick for spreading our side of the story


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## William Webb Ellis

anyone have a link to the orignal "story"


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## William Webb Ellis

Well I am planing on watching the Flames game today....and then maybe I will call Noreen.........(I hope it's her)



_Moderator edit : Theres no need to post personal details about the person here.  last thing we need is for some less than stellar people to harass her and be traced back to here._


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## William Webb Ellis

I see you point, however all this info is on the net.......


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## aesop081

William Webb Ellis said:
			
		

> I see you point, however all this info is on the net.......



i don't care. People can loo all they want for that info...they won't get it from here.  Clear ?


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## dardt

Great response Rick, very well written.


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## William Webb Ellis

Ok I will let you know if I hear from her....

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Dickens [mailto:adickens@*****.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:49 PM
To: ngolfman@***.ca
Cc: info@rickmercer.com
Subject: Article/Letter of Rick Mercer


Dear Ms Golfman,

	I am writing regarding the piece written my Rick Mercer in response to an article you wrote on Jan 12, 2007. I have included a link to Mr. Mercer's piece, http://www.theindependent.ca/article.asp?AID=1333&ATID=6 for your review.

I have searched but have yet to find a copy of your article.  If Mr. Mercer is to be believe, I find you article offensive and objectionable.  I would however, appreciate the opportunity to read it for myself.  I would therefore ask that you provide me with either a link to the article or a copy of the article.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Adam Dickens


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## warspite

Three Cheers for Rick....HUZZA HUZZA HUZZA


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## William Webb Ellis

Ms Golfman responded to my email.

If you would like a copy of her article please let me know.


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## jc5778

i wouldn't mind a copy


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## William Webb Ellis

As she provided it to me.  It has not been edited or changed.


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## Kirkhill

Three more for Rick.....


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## jc5778

......*deep breath*...........*bite tongue*..........*wipeaway blood*...........


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## Michael OLeary

I can only wonder how Ms Golfman missed connecting the dots between "the privileges of life in the West" she was attempting to enjoy and "Our Boys out on patrol", especially when her choice of phrase hearkens back to those generations of soldiers whose patrols have always ensured she could enjoy those privileges.  Perhaps that "guilt" she was feeling was an honest but unrecognized realization that her sense of security relies upon the physical sacrifices of others.


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## Shamrock

It was a demand to remain in her shelter of ignorance.


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## Centurian1985

"You end by saying you personally cannot envision that peace can ever be paved with military offensives. May I suggest to you that in many instances in history peace has been achieved exactly that way.  The gates of Auschwitz were not opened with peace talks. Holland was not liberated by peacekeepers and fascism was not defeated with a deft pen. Time and time again men and women in uniform have laid down their lives in just causes and in an effort to free others from oppression."

These are excellent words.  Also read the original piece by said beligerent we are discussing.  Oh, the guilt is definately pouring out of those pages!  Not to mention quite a bit of gnashing of teeth.  Rick's response and biting sarcasm are a suitable come-back for academic snobbery and misguided viewpoints on what the military is doing overseas.


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## geo

Make that man an Officer!
they did? darn!
make that man a Colonel!
they did? darn!
Make that man a Newfoundlander!
he is?..... Darn - I guess he's perfect!
The salt of the earth & like his Irish ancestors...... Oh what a way with words!

CHIMO!


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## TN2IC

Rick ist Gott...


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## Dissident

You have to love that guy.

As a matter of fact, I think I mught just get him tattooed on me!


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## Danjanou

Ok as a MUN alumni, and come to think of it just as a Canadian in general, I am appalled at Ms (I’m sure she would prefer that) Golfman's selfish little diatribe, however I’m not surprised. Unfortunately Memorial like many of our hallowed halls of higher learning is not immune from this type of “individual.”  Many in the faculty there, at least as far as I remember during my time, have no clue as to why the name of the Institution is *Memorial* University of Newfoundland, or as to the significance of the University’s official colours of Burgundy and French Grey.

A quick Google search confirmed what I thought.  I knew the name was familiar. I had the displeasure of taking a couple of courses from this “educator” back when she first started at MUN. Nice to see she hasn’t changed much since then and is firmly entrenched with the PC crowd in their self-righteous ivory tower complete with its rose coloured windows.

When my alma mater sends out their next request for a donation, I’ll be sure to remember where and who that money goes to and respond accordingly.

Golfman, Noreen BA (Alberta), MA, PhD (Western Ontario). Professor. Associate Dean of Graduate Studies.

Canadian literature, film studies, women's literature, critical theory.

Office: *Edited to delete*
Telephone:  *Edited to delete*
Email:  *Edited to delete*
Link to MUN Cinema Series
Link to Dr Golfman's film course and its most recent schedule


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## Trooper Hale

Can we get her article pasted up? I couldnt read all of it for some reason. It just stopped on me. Bloody good stuff though


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## the 48th regulator

Here you go;

Independent 12 01 07
Noreen Golfman

Blowing in the wind . . .

Between mouthfuls of fruitcake and blissful stretches of catch-up sleep, you couldn’t ignore the war in Afghanistan during the holiday season if you tried. On the one hand, you were given license to let go and savour slow food, idle afternoons, and the constant pleasure of friends and family—in other words, fully appreciate the privileges of life in the West; on the other hand, you were constantly reminded of Our Boys out on patrol or eating reconstituted turkey in the Afghan desert—in other words, invited to feel guilty for not chowing down sand and fighting the war on terror. 
Every time you opened a newspaper or listened to the news, especially on the CBC, you were compelled to reach for the tissues. If it wasn’t a story about some poor sod’s legs being blown off then it was an extended interview with some dead soldier’s parents. Indulging in another bite of dark chocolate was somehow more painful this year. Here, have a plate of guilt with your second helping, my dear, and pass the self-reproach.   
Amidst all the cranked up sentimentality and the daily barrage of stories from the likes of reporter Christy ‘one of the boys’ Blatchford or Peter ‘not exactly on the front lines’ Mansbridge, The Globe and Mail’s television columnist, John Doyle, dared to question the nature of the coverage. Doyle openly wondered, as is his right and responsibility, what in the world the public broadcaster was doing, let alone his own newspaper, devoting so much maudlin attention to the Canadian troops? 
Any time anyone questions the coverage, as Doyle did and as this column is venturing to do, you can practically hear the rage mounting in the neck veins of the 






Almost as painful as watching Peter McKay flirt with Condoleezza Rice.

Mobilization Against War and Occupation 
Story about Afghanistan women, drought, starvation…

Environment shuffling cabinets is a great distraction

http://www.marxist.ca/content/view/231/45/

The new highway in the fertile Afghan valley is not the road to peace.  The road to peace is stopping the destruction, is negotiating, not handing out candy.  The road to peace is rebuilding imaginations so that dreams can live, grow and thrive.  The road to peace is in coming to sit at the table — not in a drive-by, fast food agenda.  The road to peace is a long, winding, and uncertain road that runs through all those Afghan villages.  It is not a road we can rebuild and run.
We have a responsibility in Afghanistan, but it’s not a military one.  We have a responsibility here, at our own tables, to remember that what we do in the world gathers around other tables; it reflects us.  As such, we should gather humbly, thoughtfully and ask for peace.
accepted by much of the public, and one I find to be rather unCanadian - that there is absolutely no room for diplomacy at all with the folks we're shooting at in Afghanistan. 

I know hawks all over the country are lining up against the idea of talking to the Taliban, characterizing it as "negotiating with the terrorists" - a capitulation to the inherent evilness in this radical regime... blah blah blah. 

And that example leads us directly to the next historical point. The entire military might of the former Soviet Union failed miserably in bringing the Taliban to their knees. Now, so-called "Soviet apologists" as I've been called numerous times in the past would likely argue the Soviets failure can be attribute to the heavy provision of armaments to the Taliban by our good buddy Reagan himself. It must be also pointed out, however, that in the turning of the tables two decades later, so too, has the source of armaments. The Taliban now fights with weapons procurred from the former Soviet Union. 

But the point here is this... we're not gonna win this way. And by winning, I mean we're not gonna bring any "democracy" to the people of Afghanistan by pounding the hell out of the closest thing they've ever had to a national liberation movement. We won't acheive this goal partly because shelling the Taliban has only proven to make them stronger... but primarily because only the ultra naive really believe that the imposition of "democracy" in Afghanistan is really the goal of western governments. 

Afghanistan's geographical location in relation to land-transport of crude oil was a good portion of the Soviet Union's motive in sinking its military into a quagmire there... and it's certainly the central point of western motivations today. The fact that a such a large number of high profile Canadians fail to see this, particularly the wittier and sharper types like Mercer, is a bit disturbing. 

It's quite clear that the Taliban is a fanatical religious regime quite willing to harm its own citizens in order to maintain its grip on power. Who would argue that the Bush administration doesn't also fit that description? And yet no-one's talking about cutting off any recourse for bi-lateral talks with them.

Cutting off all avenues of conflict resolution besides armed fighting is the best way to get ourselves into a mess we can't possibly exit from. And an exit strategy is exactly what Canada needs to be developing for Afghanistan. We risk a VietNam of our own otherwise... and nothing could be more unCanadian than Canada's participation in something like that.

Tim Horton’s 

About 2,200 Canadians are serving in Afghanistan, with most based in Kandahar. Since 2002, 26 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have died in Afghanistan.

dileas

tess


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## vonGarvin

OK, All together now...."We shall over cooooooooome......we shall over come............."


What a putz  (Not tess, the author of that document)

Kudos to Colonel Rick!


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## observor 69

Hauptmann Scharlachrot said:
			
		

> OK, All together now...."We shall over cooooooooome......we shall over come............."
> 
> 
> What a putz  (Not tess, the author of that document)
> 
> Kudos to Colonel Rick!



Ya know I been sitting here all night trying to organize my thinking ref the dear Prof and then ya have to blow it all away with 

" OK, All together now...."We shall over cooooooooome......we shall over come............."   ;D ;D


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## geo

............ someday...............


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## observor 69

geo said:
			
		

> ............ someday...............



daa aa  aayyyyy   ;D ;D

Somebody stop me!! ;D


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## geo

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Somebody stop me!! ;D



a :threat:


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## CrazyCanuck

Wow we could have a full new thread on putting holes in that marxist.ca thing, I mean, Taliban the closest thing to a national liberation movement they've ever had?... I'm giving myself a headache reading it.... just gonna take a step back... take a deep breath... and try not to punch my monitor...


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## R933ex

Simply put, Rick U da Man!!!


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## midget-boyd91

Is it possible for an HCOL to get promoted ?? We could have another amazing CDS once Hillier is finished ;D


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## Meridian

I was wondering if I had downloaded that wrong...   

Whats with the cut off midway, and then empty space.. and then "Tim Hortons" on its own line?

Am I missing something?


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## midget-boyd91

Meridian said:
			
		

> I was wondering if I had downloaded that wrong...
> 
> Whats with the cut off midway, and then empty space.. and then "Tim Hortons" on its own line?
> 
> Am I missing something?


You're not missing anything, its showing up like that here too.


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## Kirkhill

Same here 

Perhaps its all part of her normal delivery.  Disjointed, quotable non-thoughts that can be strung together as necessary by a suitably Independently minded editor to produce the appropriate story.


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## armyvern

It's a copy and paste from the actual electronic version of the paper.

They tend to put adds & hyperlinks into electronic versions. When they are copied & pasted, that's what they show up like if the adds/links are not removed from the copied text.


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## 241

The Librarian said:
			
		

> It's a copy and paste from the actual electronic version of the paper.
> 
> They tend to put adds & hyperlinks into electronic versions. When they are copied & pasted, that's what they show up like if the adds/links are not removed from the copied text.



The red is the ads but the sentence she was going on about before does not end it just gets cut off and after the adds a new one starts, I am fairly sure you can't hear rage in the neck veins of a new highway...



			
				the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Any time anyone questions the coverage, as Doyle did and as this column is venturing to do, you can practically hear the rage mounting in the neck veins of the
> 
> Almost as painful as watching Peter McKay flirt with Condoleezza Rice.
> 
> Mobilization Against War and Occupation
> Story about Afghanistan women, drought, starvation…
> 
> Environment shuffling cabinets is a great distraction
> 
> http://www.marxist.ca/content/view/231/45/
> The new highway in the fertile Afghan valley is not the road to peace.  The road to peace is stopping the destruction, is negotiating, not handing out candy.  The road to peace is rebuilding imaginations so that dreams


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## Michael OLeary

The part with her letter is incomplete, but that document is as she sent it to WWE. (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/56861/post-519765.html#msg519765)


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## 241

Yeah I know, just trying to point out what Kirkhill & midget-boyd91 where trying to point out


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## Trooper Hale

Ah so it wasnt just me. I thought the old 'pootah hadnt downloaded the thing properly.



			
				241 said:
			
		

> I am fairly sure you can't hear rage in the neck veins of a new highway...


And here i was thinking that the marxists included highways as people too


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## 241

Yeah they might, maybe I should rephrase that to "*I* can't hear..."


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## midget-boyd91

241 said:
			
		

> Yeah I know, just trying to point out what Kirkhill & midget-boyd91 where trying to point out


TRYING???!?!?!?! Everything that I say makes the point as sharp as a razor. I don't TRY to make a point, I SUCCEED.   

But on track again.  Are her little article/blurbs a daily thing with the newspaper, or are they just whenever she has them written?
Because I am VERY VERY eager to see what (if anything) she is going to say about Rick tearing her a new one in her next piece of work garbage.


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## bcbarman

found that he is the HCol of 12 wing sherwater.  Not a bad fit, this hour has 22 min was filmed in Halifax, there must be a streeter with a sea king crashing in the background on one of the shows.

Still glad to see that he is an HCol, suprised that its not the Royal Newfoundland Regiment, that would have been a perfect fit.


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## Centurian1985

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Golfman, Noreen BA (Alberta), MA, PhD (Western Ontario). Professor. Associate Dean of Graduate Studies.
> Canadian literature, film studies, women's literature, critical theory.



Interesting: I dont see any reference to qualifications or achievements in history, politics, international relations, or military studies.  The only part she seems to be basing her expert opinion on is the 'critical' part 'cause the 'theory' she's spouting isnt very logical. 

Perhaps someone should tell her to 'STAY IN YOUR LANE'.  

 :nana:


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## R@chel

Nicely done Rick!


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## Danjanou

Kirkhill said:
			
		

> Same here
> 
> Perhaps its all part of her normal delivery.  Disjointed, quotable non-thoughts that can be strung together as necessary by a suitably Independently minded editor to produce the appropriate story.



Yup, pulled an old term paper I wrote for one of her classes with her comments on it, looks about right :


----------



## FormerHorseGuard

I am beginning to think this Rick guy is the answer to the army PR problems i do not consider myself a fan of his tv show but I am a fan of him the as a person.
as the lady who wrote this story I think she is witch, she writes a story and makes it sound like the man asked to lose his legs just in time to ruin her holidays. i do not know the medic in question or any other wounded soldier, i have been away too long i guess to know mnay of those left. But it sickens me to think that people who think like that are allowed to voice thier opinions and get paid for it. 
Rick keep up the good work and maybe you will be promoted to H General or H CDS


----------



## GO!!!

commie prof said:
			
		

> Here you go;
> 
> About 2,200 Canadians are serving in Afghanistan, with most based in Kandahar. Since 2002, *26 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat * have died in Afghanistan.



I was sure that as of 12 Jan 07, the count was 42. I guess research is becoming a lost art at MUN, when even the profs forget how to do it.

36 men died last year alone - does'nt that warrant some news coverage - especially at christmas?


----------



## beach_bum

GO!!! said:
			
		

> I was sure that as of 12 Jan 07, the count was 42. I guess research is becoming a lost art at MUN, when even the profs forget how to do it.
> 
> 36 men died last year alone - does'nt that warrant some news coverage - especially at christmas?



That ruins the taste of chocolate though.  Puts a total damper on egg nog.  Let's not even get started on what it does to fruit cake!   :


----------



## p_imbeault

Great response Rick, glad we got someone like you on the CFs side.


----------



## Thompson_JM

Rick, Thank You!


----------



## Infantry_wannabe

I'm a man but if it was possible to give birth to Rick Mercer's children, I would do it.


----------



## the 48th regulator

Infantry_wannabe said:
			
		

> I'm a man but if it was possible to give birth to Rick Mercer's children, I would do it.









Now that is down right creepy, get you back to radio chatter and stay there for a day or so...

dileas

tess


----------



## manhole

thank you, Rick!!!!!


----------



## LeonTheNeon

First of all, kudos to Rick Mercer.  I love that guy.  Not just for this article and his endless support of the CF, but just his ongoing political commentary (in a humorous fashion) is terrific.  As somebody else said, a true 100% Canadian.

Second, there were a few things I find interesting in her article.



> We won't achieve this goal partly because shelling the Taliban has only proven to make them stronger...



You know, we hear this alot but what is the evidence to back it up?  Where is this newer, stronger Taliban?  Have I been missing something, but it seems to me that the Taliban keep getting their rear ends handed to them by the ISAF.  Yes, there is the "new offensive" in the Spring coming, but it sounds like the ISAF is ready for it.  I predict there will be more of the same in A'stan.  The Taliban being forced into battles from fixed positions and they'll be annihilated.  The Taliban will continue to ambush, and the ISAF will continue to counter ambush and beat them silly.  The Taliban will continue to plant IEDs and conduct suicide bombings and the bulk of the casualties they cause will be this way.



> We risk a VietNam of our own otherwise...



I find this to be particularly ironic taken in the context of the quote above, and the entire claim that the West cannot win militarily.  In Vietnam the US forces *did* win militarily.  Following the Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong were all but eliminated (and I mean eliminated, not reduced, not nothing but eliminated) as a fighting force.  The NVA suffered 45,000 deaths and an unknown number of wounded although estimated at perhaps 2-3 times the number of dead (note, prior to the Tet they had roughly 330,000 total troops).  Some estimates put their combat strength as being reduced by 80%!!!

What happened in Vietnam is the political and popular will eroded because of media reports.  The so-called "credibility gap" widened to a point where the gov't could no longer sustain the conflict.

Sound familiar at all? 

I'd say we can have a military victory in A'stan.  We can reduce or eliminate the Taliban.  They can only sustain so many casualties.  It isn't endless hordes of clones coming out of vats and test tubes.  Eventually, they Taliban will be put into the same position the VC and NVA were put into.  Make a big offensive, or lose via attrition.  Either way they lose ... but here's the key ... they lose *militarily*.

Can we sustain the political and popular will to see it through or will we indeed have another Vietnam thanks to people like her?



> It's quite clear that the Taliban is a fanatical religious regime quite willing to harm its own citizens in order to maintain its grip on power. Who would argue that the Bush administration doesn't also fit that description? And yet no-one's talking about cutting off any recourse for bi-lateral talks with them.



Ahhh... the mandatory Bush bashing.  You just can't have an anti-war article without some good old fashioned Bush bashing.  What exactly has Bush done to maintain his grip on power?  Has he suspended elections in the US?  Nope.  Executed his political rivals?  Nope.  Outlawed his political rivals?  Nope.  Sent death squads around to kill people who don't follow his rules?  Nope.  Executed women for teaching? Nope.  etc. etc. etc.

So what exactly has he done that compares him to the Taliban?  I tell you what.. if in Feb 2009 President Bush is still President of the United States of America.  If he has usurped the political process there and declared himself president-for-life, AND the Unitied States armed forces haven't risen up to throw his a** out for usurping the political freedom of their nation, let me know, and then we'll start to compare Bush to the Taliban.


----------



## William Webb Ellis

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> The part with her letter is incomplete, but that document is as she sent it to WWE. (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/56861/post-519765.html#msg519765)



I have sent her an email asking if there is part of the article missing.....I actually did not really sit down to read it until last night....


----------



## George Wallace

Perhaps she is an example of how over the years our universities have been 'Granting' Degrees to functionally illiterate people.


----------



## William Webb Ellis

Perhaps, but if I agree am I considered illierate


----------



## George Wallace

William Webb Ellis said:
			
		

> Perhaps, but if I agree am I considered illierate



I suppose we could.   ;D


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

Wow Rick is awesome. They are having a mess dinner in Shearwater in April with him.....should be lively!


----------



## William Webb Ellis

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I suppose we could.   ;D



Just checking your attention to detail........... :


----------



## William Webb Ellis

Got the complete article her it is......

Independent 12 01 07
Noreen Golfman

Blowing in the wind . . .

Between mouthfuls of fruitcake and blissful stretches of catch-up sleep, you couldn’t ignore the war (oh, sorry, is that peaceful restoration work?) in Afghanistan during the holiday season if you tried. On the one hand, you were given license to let go and savour slow food, idle afternoons, and the constant pleasure of friends and family—in other words, fully appreciate the privileges of life in the West; on the other hand, you were constantly reminded of Our Boys our on patrol, eating reconstituted turkey in the Afghan desert—in other words, invited to feel guilty for not chowing down sand and fighting the war on terror. 
Every time you opened a newspaper or listened to the news, especially on the CBC, you were compelled to reach for the box of tissues. If it wasn’t a story about some poor sod’s legs being blown off then it was an extended interview with some dead soldier’s parents. Indulging in another bite of dark chocolate was meant to be more painful this year. Here, have a plate of guilt with your second helping, my dear, and pass the self-reproach.   
Amidst all the cranked up sentimentality and the daily barrage of stories from the likes of reporter Christy ‘one of the boys’ Blatchford or Peter ‘not exactly on the front lines’ Mansbridge, The Globe and Mail’s television columnist, John Doyle, dared to question the nature of the coverage. Doyle openly wondered, as is his right and responsibility, what in the world the public broadcaster was doing, let alone his own privately owned newspaper, devoting so much mawkish attention to the Canadian troops? 
It’s one thing to pay full respect to the men (and some women) who have chosen a life in uniform and are therefore more or less voluntarily enduring punishing conditions, risking their lives many thousands of miles away from the comforts of home. 
It is another to report on their presence in that unfamiliar place without so much as a hint that they don’t belong there, that the campaign to restore order and keep the Taliban from returning to power might be doomed, that blood is obviously begetting blood and that Canadians, and especially the Newfoundlanders who comprise such a disproportionate percentage of the overseas troops (compare with the number of African-Americans fighting in the doomed project of Viet Nam), are destined to return in body bags.
Shouldn’t we—the media, our public intellectual, citizens in general—at least be questioning, not merely glorifying or going sloppy over this fact?
Any time anyone questions the coverage, as Doyle did and as this column is venturing to do, you can practically hear the rage mounting in the neck veins of the military huggers. Peter Mansbridge threw a public hissy fit, obviously protesting too much. And Doyle told his readers that he’d been receiving some pretty nasty hate mail after his columns in December, not surprising, really, when you consider how defensive people are about the troops. I expect I’ll get some ugly stuff, too. It is a trite irony that you are chastised for daring to question the purpose of the military mission when that very mission is allegedly about restoring democracy and freedom of speech. 
Which leads me to kick at another sacred cow--that is, Rick Mercer and that whole lot of star Newfoundlanders who went over to entertain Our Boys (and Girls) over Christmas, reportedly flown to unmarked destinations and, presumably, forced to share some dehydrated food and wear really ugly clothing for a few days. 
What in the world is going on? Where are the protest songs of yesteryear? I guess, when General Rick ‘MUN Graduate’ Hiller invites you to come along and share the joy ride you have to join up faster than you can say ‘Bob Hope is dead.’ Reading Mercer’s widely circulated piece on the joys of serving gravy to the grateful Canadian boys was almost as painful as watching Peter McKay flirt with Condoleezza ‘Condee’ Rice. 
Just when did the worm turn? When was it suddenly acceptable for your garden variety progressive, satire-loving celebrity to hug the troops, praise military actions, and pass the ammunition without so much as a hint of dissent or any questioning of the value of the mission, not to mention its obviously USA-linked agenda? Can you imagine popular talk show host Jon Stewart flying overseas over for a few feel-good shows in Iraq? 
What looking-glass world have Rick and his talented cronies walked into?
	Inevitably, in the United States the right-wing White House mongers who first encouraged the post 9/11 invasion of Iraq are now retreating faster than a camel in heat. It’s taken an awfully long time and thousands of body bags, but public opinion is finally forcing an undignified about face. The buzzword for 2007 is ‘exit strategy.’ 
But not here, not if you listen to Stephen Harper, not if you are getting all warm and fuzzy about how meaningful it is to stand in line waiting for a double double at the Tim Horton’s shop in Kandahar, not if Christy Blanchard’s columns make you cry, and you want to make Rick Mercer and his buddies honourary soldiers.
It is really hard to see how the road to open debate, let alone peace, can be paved with military offensives and the song and laugh shows of Newfoundland talent, and there is something deeply disturbing about the unquestioning belief that it can.


----------



## simysmom99

Oh my.  That deserves a response from me!
She just doesn't get it.  It was Mercer's choice to go, although the "Big Guy" can be very persuasive if he wants to be.


----------



## R933ex

To many people don't get it. Oh well difference of opinion is what makes Canada oh F$%#$# it  :brickwall:


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

simysmom99 said:
			
		

> Oh my.  That deserves a response from me!
> She just doesn't get it.  It was Mercer's choice to go, although the "Big Guy" can be very persuasive if he wants to be.



In the interests of brevity you could just have ended after "She just doesn't get it."  :


----------



## Danjanou

Opinionated little cuss ain’t she.  I kind of liked the original bit with the missing sections better . While confusing it was at least  are not as vitriolic as the full article. Any doubts (and there were none) that this woman is in dire need of a cyber throat punch or at least a reality check are now gone.

I really do love the oh so patronizing comparison between Newfoundlanders serving in Afghanistan and Afro Americans in Vietnam. This of course from a self declared, self appointed member of the Intelligentsia at MUN. Many of whom are “Come From Aways”, including Ms Golfman if memory serves me, who often look down on the native born Newfoundlanders, and all but replaced the Brit robber barons who ran the place a century ago as the political, academic, social elite (at least in their own minds) and wonder why the ungrateful natives ain’t all lined up smiling and tugging the forelocks in gratitude for being force fed the PC tripe that is spewed from the edifice on Elizabeth Avenue.

The passage about expecting to receive hate mail in response to her views also sounds almost like a challenge to us. A badge of honour she can wear at the next gathering of the cap and gown clad sheeple. Sometime tells me that she won’t be disappointed by the volume of negative responses she has and/or will be receiving over this. However that fact that us poor knuckle dragging war mongers are able to convey our disgust in coherent sentences and words of more than four letters may come as a surprise to her.

Anyway it appears that she’s also rather opinionated on other matters too.  Fortunately between her various committees, other events and writing to tell us how to think and act, she must not have too much time left over to “teach.” Which I feel is a small mercy for the next generation of MUN undergrads.

A few random excerts from a five second Google search:

http://www.fedcan.ca/english/about/exec/bionotes-golfman.cfm

http://www.friends.ca/News/Friends_News/archives/articles02110501.asp

http://friendscb.org/Resource/briefs/policy05130401.asp

http://www.friends.ca/news/letters/letters04250101.asp

http://misc-iecm.mcgill.ca/media/golfman.pdf

http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/resources/articles/sovereignty_identity/watch_wish.cfm

EDIT: If my above passage was lengthy, long winded, and hard to read, remember in my defence Noreen Golfman was my English Prof at MUN. 8)


----------



## simysmom99

Can you please explain "brevity".  I am not sure how "being brief" should come into play in my opinion on the subject.


----------



## armyvern

simysmom99 said:
			
		

> Can you please explain "brevity".  I am not sure how "being brief" should come into play in my opinion on the subject.



Simysmom,

I think that was the Padre's way of making a sarcastic remark about the article originator. 

I think he's wanting to employ that K.I.S.S. rule for her because she just doesn't get it.  ;D

Edited to clarify: By employing the KISS rule, I mean no offense to anyone who posts on this site, or Rick Mercer's site either!!


----------



## military granny

After reading this thread and all its response's. Audra you are right she just doesn't get it.


----------



## simysmom99

Thanks for the clarification Librarian.  I find myself feeling a bit defensive on this subject and let it show in my post.  No disrespect intended Danjanou.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

The Librarian said:
			
		

> Simysmom,
> 
> I think that was the Padre's way of making a sarcastic remark about the article originator.
> 
> I think he's wanting to employ that K.I.S.S. rule for her because she just doesn't get it.  ;D
> 
> Edited to clarify: By employing the KISS rule, I mean no offense to anyone who posts on this site, or Rick Mercer's site either!!



Thanks that's exactly what I was meaning....it wasn't a judgement on the posters comments...I was trying to say that Ms Golfman is out to lunch.


----------



## armyvern

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> Thanks that's exactly what I was meaning....it wasn't a judgement on the posters comments...I was trying to say that Ms Golfman is out to lunch.



I figured I'd help you out Padre because I know you guys don't get to often express such sentiments!!


----------



## simysmom99

I'm sorry Padre, no disrespect to you either  ;D
My my, the brain is going on overload.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

_QUOTE,
 I expect I’ll get some ugly stuff, too. It is a trite irony that you are chastised for daring to question the purpose of the military mission when that very mission is allegedly about restoring democracy and freedom of speech_. 

That, for me, is the most telling line in her vile pathetic little diatribe.   "The nerve of those I chastise with my freedom of speech to use their freedom of speech to chastise me".
Yup, some "trite irony" there somewhere.............


----------



## Roy Harding

Has anyone invited Ms. Golfman to log on here, and perhaps engage in an _intelligent_ debate (NOT _argument_?)

If not, perhaps I will - although I am not a MUN Alumni, and my invitation may not carry as much weight as such a one (looking at YOU Danjanou!!!)

Just a thought.


----------



## Ex-Dragoon

I think it would end badly before it began...can you say dogpile?


----------



## observor 69

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Has anyone invited Ms. Golfman to log on here, and perhaps engage in an _intelligent_ debate (NOT _argument_?)
> 
> If not, perhaps I will - although I am not a MUN Alumni, and my invitation may not carry as much weight as such a one (looking at YOU Danjanou!!!)
> 
> Just a thought.



Define intelligent.....define argument....


----------



## Roy Harding

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Define intelligent.....define argument....



Argument = dogpile
Intelligent = no dogpile

Unfortunately, I think Ex-Dragoon is probably correct - such an invitation would most likely end badly.


----------



## George Wallace

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Argument = dogpile
> Intelligent = no dogpile
> 
> Unfortunately, I think Ex-Dragoon is probably correct - such an invitation would most likely end badly.



"This evenings entertainment was brought to you by_____________________________."


----------



## William Webb Ellis

I plan on responding to her via email.

I should mention that in her prior email:

"Please find attached a copy of my article. I offer it to you in the
hopes you will have an open mind when reading it.  I also hope you might
realize that despite how offended Mr Mercer was by an unfortunate phrase
I used to describe the coverage of the troops (a phrase I would take
back if I had the opportunity to) the tone of his letter was very
injurious to me personally; it is essentially an angry and patronizing
personal assault which has disturbed me and people close to me a great
deal. My whole point was not to disrespect the troops but to point out
that the media has an important responsibility to show all sides of what
is indeed a very complex issue, one that Canadians feel quite ambivalent
about. Mr Mercer did not really speak to that main theme. If this
exchange leads to a more open conversation about this very serious
matter then perhaps some good, and nor merely sheer spite, will come out
of it."


----------



## Kirkhill

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Yup, pulled an old term paper I wrote for one of her classes with her comments on it, looks about right :



Hey Danjanou - maybe we're missing a good thing here.

You know all those "some people" that are being perenially quoted anonymously - As in "Today the Conservative Environment Minister confirmed the Earth is round.  However, (insert any news organisation here) has reliably learned that "some people" say this is a lie.

Perhaps she is one of those.  I figure that one non-article gave the recipient enough non-thought quotes to be able to refute a multitude of articles.  Do you get paid if you get quoted as "some people"?  Or should I just change my name?


----------



## Danjanou

Roy I’ve got no pull. I’m betting there were times Memorial regretted accepting me as a "mature" student.  8)

William you seem to have developed a rapport with the good professor, perhaps you could be so kind as to send her an invite here to defend/discuss her position.  

While I personally am disgusted by her sanctimonious pontification, I will out of respect for the site and what we have here strictly adhere to the  guidelines re adult discourse should she accept and as a Mod ensure all others do too.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

simysmom99 said:
			
		

> I'm sorry Padre, no disrespect to you either  ;D
> My my, the brain is going on overload.



It's all good...Librarian is such a sharp cookie....it's scary when women start to understand us men he he....my wife can read me like a book too....must learn to be more inscrutable.


----------



## MarkOttawa

The Golfperson (a "public intellectual"?) now heads an organization that receives a considerable part of its funds from the federal purse:

"Poor sod"
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/008774.html

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## simysmom99

I managed to get my e-mail out to Noreen, and she has replied.  I would like to share her reply, but what about privacy?  Advice on this one would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Roy Harding

simysmom99 said:
			
		

> I managed to get my e-mail out to Noreen, and she has replied.  I would like to share her reply, but what about privacy?  Advice on this one would be greatly appreciated.



Ask her permission prior to doing it.


----------



## Shamrock

Absolutely.  Regardless of the tone or content of the message, or the legality of reproducing or paraphrasing it, it's only civil to ask the originator's permission.  She tells you to pound salt, you have to respect her wishes.

Fatal flaw of standing up for someone else's rights... soldiers have to respect 'em even if they won't respect ours.


----------



## Good2Golf

William Webb Ellis said:
			
		

> I plan on responding to her via email.
> 
> I should mention that in her prior email:
> 
> "Please find attached a copy of my article. I offer it to you in the
> hopes you will have an open mind when reading it.  I also hope you might
> realize that despite how offended Mr Mercer was by an unfortunate phrase
> I used to describe the coverage of the troops (a phrase I would take
> back if I had the opportunity to) the tone of his letter was very
> injurious to me personally; it is essentially an angry and patronizing
> personal assault which has disturbed me and people close to me a great
> deal. *My whole point was not to disrespect the troops but to point out
> that the media has an important responsibility to show all sides of what
> is indeed a very complex issue, one that Canadians feel quite ambivalent
> about.* Mr Mercer did not really speak to that main theme. If this
> exchange leads to a more open conversation about this very serious
> matter then perhaps some good, and nor merely sheer spite, will come out
> of it."



Ummm....does she mean ambivalent Canadians reposing, eating fruitcake and having blissful stretches of catch-up sleep? (per her own article)  :   

Nice!

Thankfully, the majority of Canadian's look beyond the foibles of the mainstream media and appreciate the significant contributions, no matter the mode of reporting, that Canadian servicewomen and servicemen are making on a daily basis.

G2G


----------



## chanman

Infantry_wannabe said:
			
		

> I'm a man but if it was possible to give birth to Rick Mercer's children, I would do it.



Well, unless he goes the surrogate route, he's unlikely to have children of his own.  If you talk him into donating to the sperm bank however, you could ensure that the following generation will have a number of Ricks 

Wow this thread is growing fast.


----------



## wildman0101

rick mercers da man  
rick hillier hes the dude  
ya gotta love em both
there made of steel
just my observation 
regards to her  :nana:
there ya go
                           best regards,,,
                                            scoty


----------



## Centurian1985

Hmmm... looks like an interpretation of Politicaleese is required here.  Stand back, this could be dangerous.  

"Please find attached a copy of my article."
(You obviously have been listening to slander and second hand comments about my article.  Here's what I really wrote.)

"I offer it to you in the hopes you will have an open mind when reading it."
(If you would only listen, you would realize that mine is the only logical argument.)

"I also hope you might realize that despite how offended Mr Mercer was by an unfortunate phrase I used to describe the coverage of the troops..."
(Why is everyone so offended at the phrase I used?)  (Special note on word tense - used the words ‘an unfortunate phrase’ to make it sound like everyone is picking on her for a single grammatical error rather than a whole editorial rant)  (Special note on contextual use of 'unfortunate' - often used in a rebuttal by public figures who think they are really clever speechwriters)

"... (a phrase I would take back if I had the opportunity to)..."
(I cant admit I was wrong.  Maybe, if I can make myself appear overworked or that the word was left in there by mistake despite reviews and editing, they will back off)

"... the tone of his letter was very injurious to me personally;..."
(The nerve of that guy to insinuate that I'M the one who doesn’t understand the situation!)

"... it is essentially an angry and patronizing personal assault which has disturbed me and people close to me a great deal."
(I’m getting a lot of negative email and feedback, and my editor is pressuring me to either retract my article or issue a public apology)

"My whole point was not to disrespect the troops…”
(Despite the fact that I did make several disrespectful comments about the military)

“… but to point out that the media has an important responsibility to show all sides of what is indeed a very complex issue, one that Canadians feel quite ambivalent about."  
(Distracts readers from the source of the complaint by blaming the media for being biased)

“Mr Mercer did not really speak to that main theme.”
(A good defense is a good offence - undermine your opponent’s credibility whenever possible by claiming he didn’t understand what he was talking about)

“If this exchange leads to a more open conversation…”  
(Challenging your opponent to an open debate is a win-win tactic.  If he doesn’t accept it, you can claim he ‘chickened out’ beacuse he knew 'he was in the wrong'. If he does accept, you can always ‘be too busy’ later on.  Being a public entertainer, Rick Mercer is probably booked up the wazoo until 2010 anyway.  Either way, I can get some good media coverage out of this for myself and my organization)

“… about this very serious matter then perhaps some good…” 
(So far nothing good has come out this for me.)  

“…and nor merely sheer spite, will come out of it."
(When I criticize, it’s logical analysis.  When others criticize me, its ‘spite’)  (Special note – the word ‘nor’ is probably supposed to me ‘not’)

Clear!    :warstory:

Okay, its safe to come out now…


----------



## ArmyRick

Rick Mercer


----------



## kozak

I am glad to see that standards of professorship haven't changed much at Arts faculties since I was at Carleton in the mid-eighties.  Noreen's piece (and the note she sent with it) displays all of the usual blather about why things that make her "feel" bad are the basis for a political diatribe.  You are a professor at a University.  You are not Oprah.

I commend those would seek to debate her but wonder whether you are just wasting the keystrokes.  To get to her level in academia, you have to have been wilfully sipping the Kool-aid for many years.  They don't get it, will never get it, and their whole little twilight world in the professors lounge would fall apart if they got it.  They would lose their jobs and be shunned professionally if they got it.

I had a professor at Carleton in the "Refuse the Cruise" years, who called herself a "sophisticated Marxist", to separate herself from the clods that were then running the Warsaw Pact, and who, in her opinion, had charlie foxtrotted the historical inevitability of socialism.  She insisted in class that Canada was a police state, and bragged that she thought that CSIS was breaking into her car and going through her papers.  She and her fellow professors would get together over wine and cheese and compare notes over how many times they each had caught CSIS spying on them.  Like they were bird watching. "Oh yes the blue car.  The blue car followed me as well."

Having a father working in a "national security capacity" and having at least three neighbours growing up in Ottawa who were members of the RCMP security service, I knew that there were so few of them that they had trouble trailing all of the actual KGB and GRU officers that packed the Soviet Embassy back then, much less going to Sandy Hill at night to break into the Mazda of an assistant professor at Cartoon U.

 As a crew-cutted smart ass, I asked her "If this is a police state, why are you still standing here ?" Her answer-- "Because I have tenure !"

There you go. Completely oblivious.


----------



## career_radio-checker

> papers.  She and her fellow professors would get together over wine and cheese  and compare notes over how many times they each had caught CSIS spying on them.



Sounds pretty bourgeois to me. Why should so called 'comrades' like her and her friends be able to sit around such an eloquent meal and engage in useless banter, while the rest of us have to work all hours of the day?   

Oh yeah, that freedom thingy... my bad


----------



## deedster

I agree!  Rick Mercer deserves The Order of Canada and the chance to be our next Prime Minister !!!!!


----------



## deedster

Centurian1985, your interpretation was dead-on!


----------



## Danjanou

Kozak  thanks for the trip down memory lane. I was at MUN during the whole cruise protest amusement and I’m sure the lady in question was front and centre spewing righteous indignation, most of it directed at the table of us short haired types sipping coffee in the Thompson Student Centre. I’m sure she tenure too.

Hmm I wonder how many blue cars were in the parking lot back then?  8)


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

MODERATOR WARNING!!

I have been approached by the originator of this thread and she is concerned that the professer has reported that she is getting hate e-mails, phone calls, etc..

I do not think that they would be originating from this forum, but in the off chance that some would, _DON'T._
She has a right to be contested intelligently and above board just like those who would support the mission.


----------



## Roy Harding

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> MODERATOR WARNING!!
> 
> I have been approached by the originator of this thread and she is concerned that the professer has reported that she is getting hate e-mails, phone calls, etc..
> 
> I do not think that they would be originating from this forum, but in the off chance that some would, _DON'T._
> She has a right to be contested intelligently and above board just like those who would support the mission.



Holy smoke!  I sometimes forget that the world (including Canada) is populated with its' fair share of idiots.

I agree with Bruce that the originator(s) of such garbage probably aren't from this board.

I hope the idiots engaging in such despicable and cowardly behaviour are caught and dealt with summarily.


Roy Harding


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## armyvern

Absolutely agreed.


----------



## Shamrock

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> Holy smoke!  I sometimes forget that the world (including Canada) is populated with its' fair share of idiots.



I'd hardly call it a fair share.


----------



## Jarnhamar

I got her email address and I wrote her and told her what I thought. I wasn't rude in the least.
I told her I thought her article was done in very poor taste, it was heartless and while I could see her point on the coverage being over the top at times, her delievery completly ruined ANY point she had. Her tone was callous.

I suggest anyone who didn't like the article to email her and tell her.  Don't be rude abusive or "hatefull" but tell her how her article made you feel and how she came across.
Maybe she didn't mean the things she said, maybe she did and she's just trying to back track now "Well what i really ment".
I know how the tone of the article made me feel.
She has the right to post her opinion in an article like that, I (and you) have the right to tell her how that article made you feel and what you thought of it.

I guarentee she won't make light of a Canadian soldier loosing their legs again in any case. She didn't mean it? Well great, appologize for it and own up to it. Don't try and backtrack.

I've been on these boards a while. Like I said in my email to her, I've often tried to make a point and have had my words twisted around or people in my opinion "just not get my point".  I've championed a few people caught in the very same situation. I've often called on 'army guys' to relax and calm down when a frenzie over something like this starts so I think I'm speaking from a good position.
The more I read her article, and the rebuttle to Rick's letter to her, the less sympathy I have for her.

Sorry, She tried to make a point and cater to a specific audience. Thats fine freedom of speech. 
She did so however by tarnishing the sacrifice of people who give her that very freedom and thats not on.

IF you're reading this Miss, like I said in my email, I'm sorry you're christmas sucked. Instead of spending next christmas watching the news getting angery over what you see I strongly suggest you go and spend time with your family, you never know what you have until you loose it.


----------



## observor 69

No I won't be sending her an email. To me the premise is false. She is a highly qualified PhD academic which in my mind means she should be quite conversant with the habit as a professor of taking the time to inform herself on matters on which she comments. Her article made it quit clear she hadn't made this effort. I went to university in the 80's and 90's and I have taken courses from this type. They speak from a strong bias that sees their world from a certain perspective. 

To me it has been a continuing source of amazement that such highly educated people are so uninformed on areas "outside there lane" and yet in cases like this feel no restraint in commenting.


----------



## scas

In regards to who Rick is Honorary of it is 423 Sea King Squardron


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO

"the tone of his letter was very
injurious to me personally; it is essentially an angry and patronizing
personal assault which has disturbed me and people close to me a great
deal."

(rant on) Actually what this really means is that she thought she was being oh so clever and witty in her original column. She was under the impression that "thinking" people and "progressives" (God I hate when lefties label people who don't agree with them as un-progressives) were all singing from the same song sheet. That a high profile member of the entertainment community would disagree and actually be a "military hugger" is particularly galling to her.
As a PhD she probably thinks that she is quite superior to the rest of us (that was actually fairly evident in the tone of her article...especially more intelligent than all of us military...poor sods all!) That her witty little ditty was torn apart by someone way more articulate, who actually knows what's going on is a very humbling thing for her....and oh so public is her humiliation.
A good dose of humble pie is good for these tenured folks who are unanswerable to anyone else but themselves. (rant off) ;D


----------



## vonGarvin

The person in question is indicitive of the sexist, racist and elitist attitude of the left (not all left, but I would say the systemic left).  They need to nanny us because people are inherently stupid and they (the left) need to regulate every aspect of our lives because we don't have the where with all to do so (see: smoking bans, "sin" taxes, employment equity and so forth).
To wit, "they" would ban a Christmas Tree in public because it's offensive.  Naturally, Menorahs and other public displays of faith aren't challenged, because "the little people" have to be pampered "for fear of reprisal".  And to assume that Jews or Moslems are offended by Christmas trees is to consider them narrow minded and hateful.  If it's Chanukah, I say "Happy Chanukah" to my Jewish friends.  If it's Christmas, my Moslem friends say "Merry Christmas" to me.
So, since no apology is given for the murderous tactics of the Taliban (et al), it's because of a deep-seeded assumption that "they don't know any better" because they see them as nothing more than animals.  After all, we are "poor sods" who ought to know better, but "they" aren't even deserving of mention for acts such as walking into a crowd of children and detonating bombs.
That is why the Left will never get my vote: their system is racist, elitist and sexist.


----------



## Roy Harding

Hauptmann Scharlachrot said:
			
		

> The person in question is indicitive of the sexist, racist and elitist attitude of the left (not all left, but I would say the systemic left).  They need to nanny us because people are inherently stupid and they (the left) need to regulate every aspect of our lives because we don't have the where with all to do so (see: smoking bans, "sin" taxes, employment equity and so forth).
> To wit, "they" would ban a Christmas Tree in public because it's offensive.  Naturally, Menorahs and other public displays of faith aren't challenged, because "the little people" have to be pampered "for fear of reprisal".  And to assume that Jews or Moslems are offended by Christmas trees is to consider them narrow minded and hateful.  If it's Chanukah, I say "Happy Chanukah" to my Jewish friends.  If it's Christmas, my Moslem friends say "Merry Christmas" to me.
> So, since no apology is given for the murderous tactics of the Taliban (et al), it's because of a deep-seeded assumption that "they don't know any better" because they see them as nothing more than animals.  After all, we are "poor sods" who ought to know better, but "they" aren't even deserving of mention for acts such as walking into a crowd of children and detonating bombs.
> That is why the Left will never get my vote: their system is racist, elitist and sexist.



Wow.

That may be the most succinct sum-up of my own feelings that I've ever read.

Roy


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## MarkOttawa

Baden Guy:



> She is a highly qualified PhD academic which in my mind means she should be quite conversant with the habit as a professor of taking the time to inform herself on matters on which she comments. Her article made it quit clear she hadn't made this effort.



I would be willing to bet $10,000 that the Golfperson has heard of the Battle of Stalingrad, but not of Kursk.  If one said "Unternehmens Zitadelle" (OK, "Operation Citadel") to her I am certain one would draw a complete blank.  "Conversant"?  No, just not educated.  And by her own choice.

Mark
Ottawa


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## niner domestic

I have the Glantz and House, Battle of Kursk in my library, perhaps I can donate it to her?


----------



## Danjanou

MarkOttawa said:
			
		

> Baden Guy:
> 
> I would be willing to bet $10,000 that the Golfperson has heard of the Battle of Stalingrad, but not of Kursk.  If one said "Unternehmens Zitadelle" (OK, "Operation Citadel") to her I am certain one would draw a complete blank.  "Conversant"?  No, just not educated.  And by her own choice.
> 
> Mark
> Ottawa



 To be fair Mark that is out of her lane. She’s a self declared SME on Feminism, English Lit and Film Studies not Conflict Studies, military History or even Soviet History.

Memorial BTW does, or at least did have a reasonable good Military history program. They set it up in the late 1980’s.

However going back to the original topic. I hereby now declare myself to be the self appointed army.ca SME on Feminist Cinematography. My  credentials in that regard are at least as valid as Professor Golfman’s are on the current conflict in Afghanistan.


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## George Wallace

In accordance with the Fair Dealings Act, this is the letter that Noreen Goffman wrote to The Independent, as passed around with many of Rick Mercer's reply in emails that are crossing the country:



Blowing in the wind . . .

Between mouthfuls of fruitcake and blissful stretches of catch-up sleep, you 
couldn't ignore the war (oh, sorry, is that peaceful restoration work?) in 
Afghanistan during the holiday season if you tried. On the one hand, you 
were given license to let go and savour slow food, idle afternoons, and the 
constant pleasure of friends and family-in other words, fully appreciate the 
privileges of life in the West; on the other hand, you were constantly 
reminded of Our Boys our on patrol, eating reconstituted turkey in the 
Afghan desert-in other words, invited to feel guilty for not chowing down 
sand and fighting the war on terror.
Every time you opened a newspaper or listened to the news, especially on the 
CBC, you were compelled to reach for the box of tissues. If it wasn't a 
story about some poor sod's legs being blown off then it was an extended 
interview with some dead soldier's parents. Indulging in another bite of 
dark chocolate was meant to be more painful this year. Here, have a plate of 
guilt with your second helping, my dear, and pass the self-reproach.
Amidst all the cranked up sentimentality and the daily barrage of stories 
from the likes of reporter Christy 'one of the boys' Blatchford or Peter 
'not exactly on the front lines' Mansbridge, The Globe and Mail's television 
columnist, John Doyle, dared to question the nature of the coverage. Doyle 
openly wondered, as is his right and responsibility, what in the world the 
public broadcaster was doing, let alone his own privately owned newspaper, 
devoting so much mawkish attention to the Canadian troops?
It's one thing to pay full respect to the men (and some women) who have 
chosen a life in uniform and are therefore more or less voluntarily enduring 
punishing conditions, risking their lives many thousands of miles away from 
the comforts of home.
It is another to report on their presence in that unfamiliar place without 
so much as a hint that they don't belong there, that the campaign to restore 
order and keep the Taliban from returning to power might be doomed, that 
blood is obviously begetting blood and that Canadians, and especially the 
Newfoundlanders who comprise such a disproportionate percentage of the 
overseas troops (compare with the number of African-Americans fighting in 
the doomed project of Viet Nam), are destined to return in body bags.
Shouldn't we-the media, our public intellectual, citizens in general-at 
least be questioning, not merely glorifying or going sloppy over this fact?
Any time anyone questions the coverage, as Doyle did and as this column is 
venturing to do, you can practically hear the rage mounting in the neck 
veins of the military huggers. Peter Mansbridge threw a public hissy fit, 
obviously protesting too much. And Doyle told his readers that he'd been 
receiving some pretty nasty hate mail after his columns in December, not 
surprising, really, when you consider how defensive people are about the 
troops. I expect I'll get some ugly stuff, too. It is a trite irony that you 
are chastised for daring to question the purpose of the military mission 
when that very mission is allegedly about restoring democracy and freedom of 
speech.
Which leads me to kick at another sacred cow--that is, Rick Mercer and that 
whole lot of star Newfoundlanders who went over to entertain Our Boys (and 
Girls) over Christmas, reportedly flown to unmarked destinations and, 
presumably, forced to share some dehydrated food and wear really ugly 
clothing for a few days.
What in the world is going on? Where are the protest songs of yesteryear? I 
guess, when General Rick 'MUN Graduate' Hiller invites you to come along and 
share the joy ride you have to join up faster than you can say 'Bob Hope is 
dead.' Reading Mercer's widely circulated piece on the joys of serving gravy 
to the grateful Canadian boys was almost as painful as watching Peter McKay 
flirt with Condoleezza 'Condee' Rice.
Just when did the worm turn? When was it suddenly acceptable for your garden 
variety progressive, satire-loving celebrity to hug the troops, praise 
military actions, and pass the ammunition without so much as a hint of 
dissent or any questioning of the value of the mission, not to mention its 
obviously USA-linked agenda? Can you imagine popular talk show host Jon 
Stewart flying overseas over for a few feel-good shows in Iraq?
What looking-glass world have Rick and his talented cronies walked into?
Inevitably, in the United States the right-wing White House mongers who 
first encouraged the post 9/11 invasion of Iraq are now retreating faster 
than a camel in heat. It's taken an awfully long time and thousands of body 
bags, but public opinion is finally forcing an undignified about face. The 
buzzword for 2007 is 'exit strategy.'
But not here, not if you listen to Stephen Harper, not if you are getting 
all warm and fuzzy about how meaningful it is to stand in line waiting for a 
double double at the Tim Horton's shop in Kandahar, not if Christy 
Blanchard's columns make you cry, and you want to make Rick Mercer and his 
buddies honourary soldiers.
It is really hard to see how the road to open debate, let alone peace, can 
be paved with military offensives and the song and laugh shows of 
Newfoundland talent, and there is something deeply disturbing about the 
unquestioning belief that it can.


----------



## Danjanou

Danjanou said:
			
		

> However going back to the original topic. I hereby now declare myself to be the self appointed army.ca SME on Feminist Cinematography. My  credentials in that regard are at least as valid as Professor Golfman’s are on the current conflict in Afghanistan.



Damn I just checked my CV with 57 odd movie reviews written and published plus whatever academic papers I churned out at MUN technically I am an SME. :-[


----------



## MarkOttawa

niner domestic: For a broader, if self-serving, perspective, how about "Verlorene Siege" (in translation of course, as I read it).

Mark
Ottawa


----------



## George Wallace

I find it rather interesting that she is reportedly upset that Rick Mercer's reply slams her directly.  In reading this letter, she not only slams Rick Mercer, but several other prominent people in the entertainment and political fields.  Surely she must have some clue as to what kind of response she should receive if she spews forth comments like she has about people.  I am sure they just as equally feel slighted and it seems to have caught her completely off guard that one would so eloquently put her down.


----------



## niner domestic

Danjanou:  You can only claim that if you read Antonia Lant, Laura Mulvey and Kaja Silverman...LOL 

Mark: von Manstein's bucher?


----------



## Trogdor

scas said:
			
		

> In regards to who Rick is Honorary of it is 423 Sea King Squardron



Cool thanks for the answer.  I don't want to waste my time writing a email to this so called Professor.  It is sad that I a young man should have more knowledge of the realities of this world than a woman who has apparently spent her whole life educating herself and others.  I will however, gladly, nominate Rick for an Order of Canada.  If he wins then I'll be sure to be on that tasking to stand proud in Rideau Hall to see him accept it.


----------



## Danjanou

niner domestic said:
			
		

> Danjanou:  You can only claim that if you read Antonia Lant, Laura Mulvey and Kaja Silverman...LOL



I have, remember I took English Lit/Film course at MUN.  Besides I like to get in touch with my inner feminist  ;D


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## MarkOttawa

George Wallace: "The Ivory Tower" (which, in this case, is clearly not a citadel).  

Mark
Ottawa


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## josh

Wolfe117:  "It is sad that I a young man should have more knowledge of the realities of this world than a woman who has apparently spent her whole life educating herself and others. "

It's sad that we have so-called "academics" like this teaching in Canadian universities.  Many, like her, are total flakes who have nothing more to show than framed credentials on a wall, and a few writings in obscure journals that no one in a supermarket line-up would read.  Having spent their entire adult lives in university, they have no true-life experience in the real world - yet they spout their academic views on the world through newspapers and media.  Well someone took notice (Rick Mercer), and now she's all offended.  How pathetic for her.


----------



## axeman

an excerpt of what i have sent to Rick Mercier

As a ex infanteer 17 yrs ex Patricia i know many ppl deployed right now .I know far too many names that have been added to the book of rememberance , and the names on the new monuments . I know far to many of them and its support like yours that makes it more worthwhile when we polish our boots,and cap badges dust off our berets. and form up for a slow march to see our comrades off for the final time.


----------



## Jarnhamar

> It's sad that we have so-called "academics" like this teaching in Canadian universities.  Many, like her, are total flakes who have nothing more to show than framed credentials on a wall, and a few writings in obscure journals that no one in a supermarket line-up would read.  Having spent their entire adult lives in university, they have no true-life experience in the real world - yet they spout their academic views on the world through newspapers and media.  Well someone took notice (Rick Mercer), and now she's all offended.  How pathetic for her.



Good post Josh.
It's funny how quickly she was ruthlessly hurt by Ricks horrible horrible comments.
Reminds me of the new recruits (and fourm posters) who get offended by the slightest comment and scream racisim and personal attack expecting it to scare everyone into some sort of submission.


----------



## Ready Aye Ready

Well since Ms Golfman is highly unlike to appear on this forum, allow me to play devil's advocate. In order to call this a debate at least one of the 140+ posts should be a dissenting post. 

You state that Ms Golfman does not posses the credentials to form an opinion on the issue of the Mission in Afghanistan, but what are Rick Mercer's credentials? Does he hold an advanced degree in International Conflict Analysis or Central Asian Studies? or is it we tend to agree with him on this issue so we are much willing to accept his views
If we were only able to speak to our specific areas of expertise, then not many of us would have much to say.


----------



## observor 69

Ready Aye Ready said:
			
		

> Well since Ms Golfman is highly unlike to appear on this forum, allow me to play devil's advocate. In order to call this a debate at least one of the 140+ posts should be a dissenting post.
> 
> You state that Ms Golfman does not posses the credentials to form an opinion on the issue of the Mission in Afghanistan, but what are Rick Mercer's credentials? Does he hold an advanced degree in International Conflict Analysis or Central Asian Studies? or is it we tend to agree with him on this issue so we are much willing to
> If we were only able to speak to our specific areas of expertise, then not many of us would have much to say.



Yes but one expects a person to take the time, especially an academic, to become informed on the topic they have chosen to express an opinion on.
Looks to me like Ms Golfman couldn't bother, or found it "to distasteful" to read up on military matters.


----------



## George Wallace

Ready Aye Ready said:
			
		

> You state that Ms Golfman does not posses the credentials to form an opinion on the issue of the Mission in Afghanistan, but what are Rick Mercer's credentials? Does he hold an advanced degree in International Conflict Analysis or Central Asian Studies? or is it we tend to agree with him on this issue so we are much willing to accept his views
> If we were only able to speak to our specific areas of expertise, then not many of us would have much to say.



I don't know.....Could it be that he as actually been over there to witness what is going on, to a small extent?.....More than once.   Could it be that he makes a living doing Political Satire?  Could it be that he has taken an interest in the CF and done some research into what the men and women do in the CF?  

Does one have to have some sort of Advanced Degree in some strange Field to be an expert?  Does one need a piece of paper, with a nice little stamp embossed on it, framed and hanging on the wall with several other pieces of paper of similar nature, to be an expert?  That would be like saying that all officers require Degrees, and as they have a Degree, they are automatically Leaders.   :

I would say that Rick Mercer has more relevant credentials than Noreen Golfman if it came to that point of a discussion.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse

Ready Aye Ready said:
			
		

> You state that Ms Golfman does not posses the credentials to form an opinion on the issue of the Mission in Afghanistan, but what are Rick Mercer's credentials? Does he hold an advanced degree in International Conflict Analysis or Central Asian Studies?



I'll take the word of those who have been on the ground over either of them, and since it seems the majority of those who are/ have been on the ground agree she is out to lunch, well.........

_"International Conflict Analysis or Central Asian Studies"_
Yup, that degree and $2 will get you a cup of coffee in this rapidly evolving world warfare.

_Quote from Ms. Golfman, 
"It is really hard to see how the road to open debate, let alone peace, can 
be paved with military offensives"_

My nephew is in Grade 9, and writes on history with a better understanding than that drivel......


----------



## Edward Campbell

Ready Aye Ready said:
			
		

> Well since Ms Golfman is highly unlike to appear on this forum, allow me to play devil's advocate. In order to call this a debate at least one of the 140+ posts should be a dissenting post.
> 
> You state that Ms Golfman does not posses the credentials to form an opinion on the issue of the Mission in Afghanistan, but what are Rick Mercer's credentials? Does he hold an advanced degree in International Conflict Analysis or Central Asian Studies? or is it we tend to agree with him on this issue so we are much willing to accept his views
> If we were only able to speak to our specific areas of expertise, then not many of us would have much to say.



Agreed, Ready Aye Ready; it is, I suppose, the nature of there Internet fora to become _unreasonably_ polarized.  Most Army.ca members are _close_ to the Afghanistan mission and the people involved – much closer than _ordinary Canadians_.  So, oddly enough, is Prof. Golfman – she just comes at it from another angle, 180º out of phase with ours.  She speaks for a substantial minority of Canadians who are just as locked into their knee-jerk anti-American, Trudeau_ist_- isolationist mindset as most Army.ca posters are into theirs.

Rick Mercer is, indeed, a major _cheer-leader_ for the men and women in the Canadian Forces.  His support for the people in uniform doubtless transcends any and all doubts he may have about the wisdom or even utility of Canadian foreign and defence policies and actions.

Prof. Golfman has neither connections with nor any felling for the people in Afghanistan – Afghan women, Canadian soldiers, makes no never-mind.  She is a cheer-leader for a specific socio-political POV and her support for those _ideas_ transcends any sympathy she might, normally, feel for some _poor sod_ who lost his legs or for a grieving mother.

She’s entitled to her opinions – making sure she’s free to express them is why there were/are so many grieving mothers.  Rick Mercer, having been singled out in her little diatribe, was entitled to respond; he did.  Neither added much to the debate about why we are in Afghanistan and when/how we should leave.


----------



## Ready Aye Ready

I don't see what Ms. Golfman could have informed herself on as her Op/Ed presented no facts or serious critical analysis of the political/military situation in Afghanistan. Her point was to criticize the coverage of the Afghanistan Mission in the Canadian Press, which is within her right in a editorial. Why she chose to include condescending remarks about the troops themselves, I don't know. But I would hazard a guess that she confused being controversial with being intelligent. He statement comparing Blacks in Vietnam with Noofs in Afghanistan proves that, while I have no doubt Ms. Golfman is intelligent, her analysis in this piece is not. The US army in Vietnam was a conscript army that imposed draft rules that unfairly conscripted from from poorer segments of the population (often minorities). The all-volunteer western armies of today recruiting disparities are largely based on economic realities.


----------



## Teflon

Ready Aye Ready said:
			
		

> Well since Ms Golfman is highly unlike to appear on this forum, allow me to play devil's advocate. In order to call this a debate at least one of the 140+ posts should be a dissenting post.
> 
> You state that Ms Golfman does not posses the credentials to form an opinion on the issue of the Mission in Afghanistan, but what are Rick Mercer's credentials? Does he hold an advanced degree in International Conflict Analysis or Central Asian Studies? or is it we tend to agree with him on this issue so we are much willing to accept his views
> If we were only able to speak to our specific areas of expertise, then not many of us would have much to say.



One does not have to be an expert on something to have an opinion on it, even if that person has a public platform from which to speak that opinion (hell I was over in Kandahar Jan 06 to Aug 06 and I certainly don't consider myself an expert on that conflict) but one SHOULD at least make themselves somewhat knowledgeable on the topic before using their public platform to express there opinion so particularly if they plan on mentioning other people (ie:Rick) who have public platforms in their opinion, that would avoid those people from using their platforms to rebuttal yours and make you look like a foolish A**.  

That's just my 2 cents but what do I know, other then the military her credentials far outway mine


----------



## George Wallace

Ready Aye Ready said:
			
		

> I don't see what Ms. Golfman could have informed herself on as her Op/Ed presented no facts or serious critical analysis of the political/military situation in Afghanistan. Her point was to criticize the coverage of the Afghanistan Mission in the Canadian Press, which is within her right in a editorial. Why she chose to include condescending remarks about the troops themselves, I don't know. But I would hazard a guess that she confused being controversial with being intelligent. He statement comparing Blacks in Vietnam with Noofs in Afghanistan proves that, while I have no doubt Ms. Golfman is intelligent, her analysis in this piece is not. The US army in Vietnam was a conscript army that imposed draft rules that unfairly conscripted from from poorer segments of the population (often minorities). The all-volunteer western armies of today recruiting disparities are largely based on economic realities.



Did you loose your train of thought there?  You lost mine.


----------



## Ready Aye Ready

clarification:
 1.   Many criticized Ms. Golfman because she has a degree in Women's Studies or whatever instead of Military History etc... My point is exactly that: "you don't need an advanced degree to have an opinion" 
2. How could she have researched her facts/informed herself better when she did not present any facts or analysis except of the Canadian Media?


----------



## George Wallace

Ready Aye Ready said:
			
		

> 2. How could she have researched her facts/informed herself better when she did not present any facts or analysis except of the Canadian Media?



However, at the same time you are stating the fact that she compared this conflict in Afghanistan with that in Vietnam.  That is a form of analysis, is it not?  She has compared our "Noofs" to Vietnam era US soldiers.  She has concluded that we will be meeting the same fate.  Looks to me, like an analysis was made on her part.




> It is another to report on their presence in that unfamiliar place without
> so much as a hint that they don't belong there, that the campaign to restore
> order and keep the Taliban from returning to power might be doomed, that
> blood is obviously begetting blood and that Canadians, and especially the
> Newfoundlanders who comprise such a disproportionate percentage of the
> overseas troops (compare with the number of African-Americans fighting in
> the doomed project of Viet Nam), are destined to return in body bags.


----------



## time expired

Ms Golfman is obviously trying to get on Babara Walters Great Women of our Times list
and I think she has made it, right after Jane Fonda.
                                     Regards


----------



## Ready Aye Ready

George Wallace said:
			
		

> However, at the same time you are stating the fact that she compared this conflict in Afghanistan with that in Vietnam.  That is a form of analysis, is it not?  She has compared our "Noofs" to Vietnam era US soldiers.  She has concluded that we will be meeting the same fate.  Looks to me, like an analysis was made on her part.


Perhaps we are simply arguing semantics here, but I must respectfully disagree that she is providing analysis. Now, she does state that the disproportionate amount of Newfoundlanders in the CF is comparable to that of African Americans in Vietnam. I will give her the benefit of the doubt on the numbers on this one, however, as I already stated, this comparison is erroneous as the enlistment methods are very different---but this is only a minor point. He only other statement of analytical fact in your quote is that more soldiers are "destined to return in body bags." This is unfortunately true. Other than that she does not state that "we will be meeting the same fate" as the US Army in Vietnam. Instead she says that not enough is being said in our media "that the campaign to restore order and keep the Taliban from returning to power might be doomed." MIGHT BE, as opposed to IS doomed. Can anyone tell me that stating the the mission might not succeed is unequivocally wrong?  

Her failure is not in "not getting it" as I'm not even sure what "it" means...(What does she not get? Do I also not get "it"? and if so where can I procure this "it"?) Instead, her major failure is in attributing Support for the Troops with Support for the Mission. Ironically this is exactly the lie the Neo-Cons have been trying to sell for years. The only difference this time is that this comes from the Left as opposed to the Right. By equating "military huggers" with "war mongers" she plays perfectly into the hands of those who would equate those against the mission in Afghanistan as unpatriotic.
...and yes it goes without saying that she comes off as highly insensitive & callous to the sufferings of our wounded soldiers...but it was never my point to argue that.


----------



## Colin Parkinson

Funnily enough they also forget to mention that the US army was one of the driving forces to improve the average life of the African American and one of the first places where the racial ceiling for high level jobs was breached. In fact the US army is highest employer of black Americans in senior positions. Meanwhile universities and large business still do well at excluding them.


----------



## North Star

Lol...I don't see any real need to keep hitting this poor lady. After all, she's still reeling from Rick Mercer's "injurious" blow to her pride (based as it is on her mere academic credentials).


----------



## armyvern

Ladies & gents,

Keep it professional and be bigger people than she.

Feel free to rip her article apart based upon your facts, knowledge and personal experience, keep the physical remarks out of this thread and off this forum.

I'm going to point out this post once again:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/56861/post-520905.html#msg520905


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## Colin Parkinson

Interesting, she certainly isn't worth the time and effort to send an annoying e-mail much less a hate e-mail. Anyways Rick's rebuttal would be a hard act to follow.


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## IN HOC SIGNO

Colin P said:
			
		

> Interesting, she certainly isn't worth the time and effort to send an annoying e-mail much less a hate e-mail. Anyways Rick's rebuttal would be a hard act to follow.



Agreed...as I regard her as a complete waste of time...my sending her an email would constitute a complete waste of cybespace.  ;D
(Oh dang was that un-Padre like?)


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## MarkOttawa

A "progressive" blogger has his brain in the right place:

 "The `poor sod' has a name: It's Cpl. Paul Franklin"
http://transmontanus.blogspot.com/2007/02/poor-sod-has-name-its-cpl-paul.html

Mark
Ottawa


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## Jarnhamar

> Interesting, she certainly isn't worth the time and effort to send an annoying e-mail much less a hate e-mail.



 I see emailing someone like this  like voting.
I used to never vote because I figured I dont care who wins they will just screw stuff up anyways. And  whether I vote or not they won't care, until someone pointed something out.
NOT voting is exactly what the parties want. I may not be voting for them but I'm also not voting for their opposition.

Will Mrs Golfman give a rats ass about my email or yours? Probably not. She might answer a few but then give up. Peopel don't agree and she doesn't care. I bet she deleted it within the first two lines when I said I was a Canadian soldier serving in Afghanistan.  What makes me feel good is that I put forth the effort to speak my mind. She may not be worth the time but I can think of a few people who WERE worth my time writting it.
Anyhow to each their own, cheers.
Your right, Ricks act is hard to beat


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## vonGarvin

I do not hate this person.  Do I disagree with this person's statements? Certainly.  Why?   Because this person has failed to meet the criteria of neutral observance of a situation.   She has assumed that we ought to protest the position of opposing the Taliban by miltary (read: lethal) force.  So, in the interest of civility, I shall leave it at that: I disagree.  Having said that, I shall, to my last breath, defend her statement of such opinion to my dying breath...


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## kozak

Google really is a wonderful tool.  In about ten minutes you can figure out that Mercer probably went out on a limb professionally as well. 

Noreen Golfman is not merely an obscure academic.  

She has been president of the Friends of Canadian Broadcasting, the leading CBC apologist and lobbyist group, President of the Canadian Federation of Humanities and Social Sciences, on the executive of the Canadian Film Development Board, etc. etc. etc.  She also looks like she has testified numerous times before Senate and House of Commons committees on topics such as the preservation of the CBC as a "National Broadcaster" to give a voice to "all Canadians". 

As a Canadian television performer Mercer could have his life made pretty miserable by a very small group of members of the media elite.  Good luck getting a project financed.

Which speaks to the larger issue of whether the media elites, of which Ms. Golfman appears to be a charter member, and their attitudes, truly reflect the views of Canadians, and how a small insular group holding these divergent views can have such an influence on what we see on our national broadcasters and their effects on the shaping of national attitudes towards the military.  

When you wonder why the coverage of the military on the CBC is often so ill informed and mean-spirited, with lines like "toys for the boys" sneering at the need to replace dangerous obsolete equipment, read Ms. Golfman's article and wonder no longer.  You are peering inside their skulls.


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## Roy Harding

Hauptmann Scharlachrot:  I agree 100%

kozak:  This way leads to madness.  You cannot be looking into every little corner, attempting to expose an "agenda".  This particular lady is extremely isolated, insulated, and ill informed.  I don't believe she is part of some "left wing, bleeding heart, dope smokin', greasy, long-haired, hippy war-protesting conspiracy".  She's just stupid.

I applaud what Rick Mercer wrote.  I don't think he took THAT much of a risk in publishing it.  He's a funny (and intelligent, and insightful) man - he isn't a fool - if his letter would have trashed his career he wouldn't have published it.

As for Ms. Golfman - she is an ivory tower idiot who is listened to only by other ivory tower idiots.  In the great scheme of things, she's meaningless - and her opinions count for nothing.

I was, I'm fairly certain, the one who floated the idea of inviting her onto these forums to debate her ideas - I was wrong to suggest that course of action.

Ms. Golfman is suffering from a condition which is not all that uncommon - she is "set" in her opinions.  There is no way that you can dissuade her from them - to be fair, I suffer from the same condition - although I'm pretty sure not to the same degree - I've been known to change my outlook from time to time.

She's not worth the effort.


Roy


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## zipperhead_cop

Perhaps she sees the communist benefit of terrorism?
Look at how much money is being poured into the middle east and Afghanistan by the west.  Could Brother Marx have ever dreamed that the capitalist bourgeois would redistribute the wealth to the proletariat in billions of dollars like this?  
Far fetched, but in a convoluted way radical Islam is getting done what the USSR tried to do for half a century.  Unintended irony is always the best.  
(don't get me wrong.  We'll still kill them by the bushel)


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## josh

Noreen Goldman (Friends of Canadian Broadcasting) reminds me of that Saturday Night Live skit Delicious Dish, featuring Margaret-Jo McCullen and Teri Rialto where they parody boring National Public Radio hosts no one ever listens to.


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## Colin Parkinson

I suspect that Rick's show is one of the most popular in the country, trying to screw him will be like cooking the goose that lays the golden egg. Plus if the CPC gets a majority government, CBC and various media bodies are going to find their own funding cut!


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## Jarnhamar

I wonder how long before the phantom deleter strikes again and gets around to this thread.

I'll just finish my input by saying Golfman has never been to Afghanistan.
Rick Mercer has.
One has seen Afghanstan with their own eyes and the other through the media.

I know who's opinion I would trust more.


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## Rifleman62

I always enjoy Roy Harding's plain speak, common sense, comments! It is no wonder that Sn NCOs and WOs are the back bone of the CF!


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## scas

Quote from Ms. Golfman, 
"It is really hard to see how the road to open debate, let alone peace, can 
be paved with military offensives"

I guess then WW2 didn't happen at all then.. Maybe the holocost was dreamed up by that nice guy Stalin.. I don't know.. History has taught us different..  I don't know.. ???


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## GUNS

Negative emails to Ms. Golfman are not the answer.

Just send a " I support our troops " email, nothing else.

The biggest impact can be made with the fewest words.


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## time expired

I get the impression that a lot of people posting here were not around in the 60s or 70s or
were not paying attention during that period, this woman is not stupid, of course she has an
agenda one she shares with thousands of her ilk,university profs. judges.and assorted other
intellectuals who swallowed the cockamamy phylosophies of the gurus of this period.the names
of these geniuses have mostly been forgotten,at least by me,but i am sure there people out 
there who could help.I get the impression that the failure to achieve Camalot has caused great
disapointment and some bitterness in these intellectual circles and the fault of course lies with
the great unwashed masses who were unable to grasp these great ideas,and make no mistake
someone who would go and volunteer to fight for his country,falls automaticly into this catergory.
That they could have been wrong in the first place ,and that society has not been improved by 
these ideas does not seem to have entered their collective heads but I feel it does explain the
dissmisive and contemptious attitude many of these people feel toward someone who puts on
a uniform and is willing to fight and even die for his beliefs.
    That I do not belong to the intellectuals should be fairly obvious by my writing skills however
I hope I have made my point clear
                                            Regards


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## Roy Harding

time expired said:
			
		

> I get the impression that a lot of people posting here were not around in the 60s or 70s or
> were not paying attention during that period, this woman is not stupid, of course she has an
> agenda one she shares with thousands of her ilk,university profs. judges.and assorted other
> intellectuals who swallowed the cockamamy phylosophies of the gurus of this period.the names
> of these geniuses have mostly been forgotten,at least by me,but i am sure there people out
> there who could help.I get the impression that the failure to achieve Camalot has caused great
> disapointment and some bitterness in these intellectual circles and the fault of course lies with
> the great unwashed masses who were unable to grasp these great ideas,and make no mistake
> someone who would go and volunteer to fight for his country,falls automaticly into this catergory.
> That they could have been wrong in the first place ,and that society has not been improved by
> these ideas does not seem to have entered their collective heads but I feel it does explain the
> dissmisive and contemptious attitude many of these people feel toward someone who puts on
> a uniform and is willing to fight and even die for his beliefs.
> That I do not belong to the intellectuals should be fairly obvious by my writing skills however
> I hope I have made my point clear
> Regards



With great respect, time expired, I WAS around during the '70s ('60s - not so much), and I WAS paying attention.

The very fact of their "failure to achieve Camalot" is EXACTLY what makes them irrelevant.

Of course these folks are disappointed, dismissive, and bitter.  Who wouldn't be, after having their dreams of utopia (no matter what the details of those dreams may have been) proved erroneous.

The failure of their ideas is what makes them harmless (for the most part) - they no longer have any credibility, and although I am not an academic either, as I understand it - in academia, as in ALL walks of life, your "cred" is all you've got to go on.

This is why I've changed my mind with regard to engaging this maroon - she's irrelevant; any energy expended on the engagement would be wasted, achieving nothing.

Let her and others like her remain in their academic ivory tower, complimenting each other on how smart they are, shaking their head regarding how uninformed the rest of us are; all of them, of course, completely oblivious to their lack of influence and credibility.

As long as they do no harm (IE - as long as they have no credibility), they are merely the harmless relics of past ideological debates - and not worth pursuing.  For the record, as Hauptmann Scharlachrot said earlier, I am quite prepared to fight and die for their right to be harmless idiots - which is what they are, no matter how much I disagree with them.

FWIW,


Roy


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## IN HOC SIGNO

+1 to that Roy. I entered Graduate studies to get my Masters of Divinity in 1984 (a prerequisite for being a Chaplain) at UBC and was embedded with them for 4 long years. At first I was greeted with a lot of hostility for my appearance....male, short hair cut and military bearing.  I found that interesting as most of them were horrified that anyone would discriminate against people for their gender, appearance or race. 

My views were suspect and they were out right hostile when I donned my DEUs and headed off down to HMCS Discovery once a week.
After a while they kind of tolerated me as one would a small child or pet dog but they were definitely of the opinion that I was not a person who represented their values.
I've noticed that whenever  I write in to the Alumni paper to tell them what I'm doing in the military chaplaincy it never seems to get printed....funny that eh?


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## josh

Relevant,  like dog poop!


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## Roy Harding

josh said:
			
		

> Relevant,  like dog poop!



I'm not sure that I understand (actually, I AM sure that I *don't *understand) what you are referring to with that comment.

I'm at a loss - could you elaborate??


Roy


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## Colin Parkinson

I remember going with my hippy friend to a hippy party in combats, all his so called "open-minded" friends showed their true colours. He apologized afterwards and I told him it was worth it to help him understand that many of these types are full of well disguised hate and discrimination. I think he finally gave up on the hippy ideals.


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## josh

Re: dog poop:  The poor professor's comments was what I was referring to.


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## sbarnes1085

One thing that hasn't been adequately covered in this thread is that:

THE GOOD PROFESSOR DOES NOT SPEAK FOR HER INSTITUTION

In civvy life I am a MUN employee.  When I asked for 18 months special leave to be part of Roto 3 the HR manager at my campus said "You shouldn't have too much trouble getting time off for military service from a university named Memorial."

The senior HR person who approved the request called me personally to tell me he's an ex-arty reserve Lt, and to wish me good luck.

MUN "gets it".  At least one member of the faculty, sadly, does not.


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## Bruce Monkhouse

Thank you for that.....


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## BinRat55

To Rick Mercer -    You are a true   and you'll always have a fan in me.  I would vote for you.

Jim


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## TN2IC

niner domestic said:
			
		

> I have the Glantz and House, Battle of Kursk in my library, perhaps I can donate it to her?



Kursk was the greatest Eastern Front battle... good to read up on.


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## vonGarvin

niner domestic said:
			
		

> I have the Glantz and House, Battle of Kursk in my library, perhaps I can donate it to her?


Screw her: donate it to the Hauptmann Scharlachrot Library!


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## 3rd Herd

Hauptmann Scharlachrot said:
			
		

> Screw her: donate it to the Hauptmann Scharlachrot Library!



And I thought those quasi religious fundamentalists, Conservative organizations were good at self funding. First we have Hauptmann Scharlachrot "user fees" and we are being asked to donate highly valued academic works. This is beginning to sound like a public/PRIVATE library deal in which the key word is private and You will only get the information I want you to get.


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## IrishCanuck

Ready Aye Ready said:
			
		

> Well since Ms Golfman is highly unlike to appear on this forum, allow me to play devil's advocate. In order to call this a debate at least one of the 140+ posts should be a dissenting post.
> 
> You state that Ms Golfman does not posses the credentials to form an opinion on the issue of the Mission in Afghanistan, but what are Rick Mercer's credentials? Does he hold an advanced degree in International Conflict Analysis or Central Asian Studies? or is it we tend to agree with him on this issue so we are much willing to accept his views
> If we were only able to speak to our specific areas of expertise, then not many of us would have much to say.



I think the simplest answer to that devil's advocate position is this :

-Rick Mercer issued a rebuttal, he didn't go off half-cocked in regards to something he has "no credentials" in. Golfman on the other hand....

Rick Mercer you are the man!


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## niner domestic

I wasn't sure where to add a personal observation of these types of academics as there is another thread (Amir Attaran)discussing yet another academic but I'm sensing a trend from those who profess to be the advocate, the liberator, the teacher, the mentor, the activist and so on.  I'm sensing that there will be many more articles and opinion pieces to come written on the backs of our men and women in the CF, their families and who are trying to govern.  I wish I could believe that these authorships and attempts at scholarship will benefit Canadians or at the very least enlighten them but I can't.  All I can sense is a feeble attempt from an academic who is pressed to publish or perish to come up with a spark of an idea that will be followed by a SSHRC grant for their next sabbatical in Spain. 

I have more degrees than I know what to do with and as such had a measurable amount of experience sitting in the classes of these types of academics.  I listened while they professed their expertise in a narrow field of study, heard their opinions, understood where their politics lay and sat quietly while they expounded their sexual preferences, social status and/or race, gender issues.  I sat and listened to the feminists extole the virtues of the matriarchy, I studied under the socialist who glamourized communism and groaned silently when the misogynist started every lecture with a question of why did he have to teach females.  I watched them all talk their talk but not once did I see them walk the walk.  

I had a friend in law school, nice lady, single parent, came from an abusive marriage and struggled to gain back her life, she was smart but not quite smart to get a full scholarship to attend school and had to work 3 part time jobs to pay the tuition, rent, books and put food on the table for her and her 4 kids and attend 35 hours a week of classes to get her law degree and finish up her undergrad BA.  In the first year, she was the feminist professor's darling.  They dragged her around to every dog and pony show that had to deal with women's issues of safety, domestic violence and family law.  They held her up as a shining example to all as the woman who should be emulated.  In all their attention to my friend, they forgot to ask her if she needed help staying in school.  They didn't see her head down to the Food Bank once a month or weren't with her when she picked through the donations at the shelter (where she had spend 9 weeks after fleeing her partner), they never noticed that her lunches consisted of no name soda crackers and peanut butter.  My friend took on another part time job to help make ends meet and as a result her grades began to fall.   Her student friends would pass the hat around to help out but it was a meagre donation.  My friend would enter every single essay competition that was available just for the chance to make a bit more money to help with one of her children's needs.  When her grades began dropping and she had "that talk" with the Associate Dean, the socialist and feminist professors moved on to another prodigy, another darling.  

Then there was one professor, one of the ones referred to as a dinosaur by the feminist professors and much hated by them.  Yes, he was old school, and yes, he had been a judge and yes, he wrote the book on his area of law and yes, he had pretty much written everything one could write about in his area of law and was content to just teach now.  He heard about my friend, he had had her in one of his classes, liked her and felt she was going to go far in law.  He couldn't understand why she was doing poorly so he asked her, point blank.  She told him about the 4 jobs, the 4 kids, and the essay writing and how something had to give and it was her marks.  The dinosaur professor was appalled that for all the yapping about equality, woman power and social justice that none of his colleagues had stepped up to help this student.  They were all too busy talking the talk and fighting in faculty board meetings, and chasing after the SSHRC grants.  He quietly took it upon himself to pay her tuition, and give her, the books she needed.  He put his money where his mouth was.

I have often listened to the types of professors such as Noreen Golfman and Amir Attaran and their lofty views of social equality and the advocacy to right the wrongs of the oppressed.  However, I have yet to see any of their type do what that law professor has done.  Attaran has gone on record decrying the loss of a future student because of birth and circumstance, yet I haven't seen any evidence that he has tried to help at least one to achieve that.  All I keep seeing is a repetition of that talking and no walking in both instances.


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## Roy Harding

niner domestic said:
			
		

> ...   They were all too busy talking the talk and fighting in faculty board meetings, and chasing after the SSHRC grants.  He quietly took it upon himself to pay her tuition, and give her, the books she needed.  He put his money where his mouth was.
> ...



Wonderful story.

So, what happened to your friend? (New thread, perhaps??)

Roy


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## Danjanou

Niner great story one hopes it had/has a happy ending.

I've come across both types in my life in and out of academmia and uniform and more often in my present career. I continue to have nothing but disdain for the theorists and academics and their self serving pontification, and will continue to do everything in my limited powers to help those who've really been there done that, including those like your friend who've spent time in the trenches in the poverty and abuse campaigns.


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## geo

9D,  great story about a good friend
Hope everything turned out OK in the end (or should that be the end of the beginning)

Chimo!


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## 3rd Herd

9D
excellent story I would change a few things though. Insert the following:

1) instead of single mother insert PSTD, physical disability and a proud x forces member, single father
2)instead of working numerous jobs insert rewriting university legislation regarding accommodations and grants for the disabled (which got passed the first time through university senante.)
3)being drag to dog and pony shows insert cold cocking the "narrow specific opinionated SOB" in the middle of class
4)instead of law degree insert my military experience counts for something, now some universities agree
5)department meeting "in fighting" insert being able to block the same type as described in 3 from being department chair by being the deadliest "in fighter" in departmental politics and not afraid to speak out.
6) entering essay contests insert researching every remotely possible grant

On one side thank god the dinosaur in my "insert" convinced #3 that he was extremely lucky. On the other hand rumor has it that education is free when a temporary guest of the state. The dinosaur also took a significant amount of time to understand why the insert had done what he had done. Now the university has courses and faculty looking into the PSTD and military connection formally.

I know we all have our crosses to bear but every once and will it is nice to plant it in the ground and nail some deserving soul to it, take the weight off so to speak. In your description of profession academic types you forgot the author who stands at the front of the class  on first day and sells his own text book as part of the required reading for his course. I dropped that course real quick before I started to get a rep.


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## Privateer

Necro-thread revived for a current Rick Mercer "rant" on cuts to Veterans Affairs:

http://youtu.be/0DsJ8IhWO7w


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## George Wallace

Even Rick Mercer fixates on WW II and Korea Vets, no mention of recent.


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## Privateer

I think that the emphasis on the older generation is supposed to highlight the absurdity of pretending that such things as iPhone apps are a substitute for in-person assistance.


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## Edward Campbell

Cuts to bureaucrats are not the problem: the New Veterans' Charter is the problem. I will repeat what I have said before, veterans' benefits were generous, maybe too generous, but changing the system to one which is downright niggardly, while we had troops in combat, as the Liberal  government did in 2006, was beyond mean spirited - it was immoral.

As Rick Mercer points out there are only 100,000+ of the 1,000,000 veterans who were around 60 years ago, _circa_ 1953, so cuts to the bureaucracy are not just possible, they are past due and automated services and "apps" are appropriate for young veterans. He's trying to cash in on November 11th: shame on him.


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## Navy_Pete

So because I'm younger I get to use an app instead of talking to a real person?  That's a bit asinine.  I don't think that a few regional offices in populated areas is too much to ask.  We could fund them by cutting one MP, their office and staff.  Or they could stop advertising about all the good the financial action plan is doing and use it to actually accomplish things.


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## PPCLI Guy

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> I don't think that a few regional offices in populated areas is too much to ask.  We could fund them by cutting one MP, their office and staff.  Or they could stop advertising about all the good the financial action plan is doing and use it to actually accomplish things.



How about we fund them by NOT buying the F35?  Or the CCV?  Or by eliminating the 20 or so Res Inf Bn HQs that are looking after mere platoons of soldiers?


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## pbi

Gee..and here I thought the Tories were in our corner. Learn somethin' new every day.


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## Navy_Pete

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> How about we fund them by NOT buying the F35?  Or the CCV?  Or by eliminating the 20 or so Res Inf Bn HQs that are looking after mere platoons of soldiers?



And maybe AOPs while we're at it?  That way it's a tri service questionable capitol procurement cancellation effort.

Still, if they want to find immediate cost savings, cutting the very generous allowances for MPs as well as trimming the numbers in parliment would be a good 'lead by example' story, plus they have some kind of ridiculous annual operating budget north of $500 M.


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## jollyjacktar

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Even Rick Mercer fixates on WW II and Korea Vets, no mention of recent.


The sound bite that I heard last night was all about our present serving and Afghan vets who are getting the boot before pension elegibility.   The only mention of the First World War soldiers  was the comment from Borden to the Troops on the eve of Vimy Ridge and saying that they had the compact and they would not let us down.  Rick say's now they have. 

I heard nothing in his rant I could disagree with.  Mind you, I was listening on the radio and it may  not have been the full rant but I doubt it.  It was fairly long.


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## George Wallace

Navy_Pete said:
			
		

> Still, if they want to find immediate cost savings, cutting the very generous allowances for MPs as well as trimming the numbers in parliment would be a good 'lead by example' story, plus they have some kind of ridiculous annual operating budget north of $500 M.



Have you ever heard of any politician voting himself/herself out of a job?  Or even a cut in pay or benefits?


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## OldTanker

If the real issue Mercer is addressing is the lack of accessibility to VA services, then I totally support his rant. Several years ago I had to assist my father (a WWII vet) in dealing with VA, something he had never had to do previously. It was also my first time dealing with VA and I was left with the distinct impression that their strategy was to make it so difficult to contact them that the old(er) vets would simply give up and eventually die. In our case, in pure frustration I approached my Member of Parliament who was able to resolve the issue in a matter of days. If my father had not had someone to assist him, he would have just given up and missed out on something he was totally entitled to. And please don't suggest turning to the Legion, they were not at all helpful. I appreciate Edward's perspective that a dwindling client base should result in a reduced bureaucracy but I think VA is obliged to maintain their focus on personal customer service, particularly as the remaining WWII and Korea vets approach the end. Now is not the time to cheap-out on them. I can accept a different approach (websites, apps) in dealing with veterans of my vintage (Cold War) and younger but again the bottom-line has to remain providing first-class customer service. We deserve it.


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## dcs

Although not for a lack of effort on the part of RMC cadets, Rick Mercer's name has not moved forward to receive an honorary degree. 
Regrettably similar for Don Cherry, who took the high road to avoid any conflict or focus he felt not appropriate.  

Having just read his response, I truly hope that he will finally receive the consideration he deserves, and the graduating future leaders of the military desire.


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## The Bread Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Cuts to bureaucrats are not the problem: the New Veterans' Charter is the problem. I will repeat what I have said before, veterans' benefits were generous, maybe too generous, but changing the system to one which is downright niggardly, while we had troops in combat, as the Liberal  government did in 2006 with unanimous, all-party approval in both the House of Commons and the Senate, was beyond mean spirited - *it was immoral*.


One add-on as a reminder to everyone.  Still, agree with orange bit 100%.


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## Edward Campbell

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> One add-on as a reminder to everyone.  Still, agree with orange bit 100%.




Quite right, milnews.ca; there is plenty of blame to go 'round. At the recent CPC Convention Prime Minister Harper proclaimed himself, and his party, to still be _outsiders_ in Ottawa and that may be, partially, true, but they are, also, _captives_ of the bureaucracy. From the time they took power, as a minority, in 2006 they wanted to _contain_ spending and cut taxes. The New Veterans' Charter is, above all, a _cost containment_ programme so it is not surprising that Conservatives supported it. But they, like the Liberals and the NDP, ignored the *moral* aspect, and they're still doing that because balancing the budget by 2015 is, now, their political holy grail.

I have said, more than once, that the benefits veterans voted for themselves in the 1920s, the late 1940s and the mid 1950s were, in economic terms, too generous: but 1 in 12 Canadians put on a uniform in 1939-45 so it is not surprising that they and their friends and relations "thanked" them, using the public purse to do so. 

Some Conservatives, including some CPC MPs I think, see _benefits_, especially public benefits and _entitlements_ as a serious problem ~ and not just an economic problem but a social problem, too. Their theory is that such public benefits and entitlements create a culture of dependence that saps the innovative spirit of the population plus, of course, entitlements seem to never end ~ except for veterans' benefits ~ so they are only too happy to believe the senior civil servants in Charlottetown who tell them that the complaints come from only a tiny handful of malcontents who will never be satisfied with anything.


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## George Wallace

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> Some Conservatives, including some CPC MPs I think, see _benefits_, especially public benefits and _entitlements_ as a serious problem ~ and not just an economic problem but a social problem, too. Their theory is that such public benefits and entitlements create a culture of dependence that saps the innovative spirit of the population plus, of course, entitlements seem to never end ~ except for veterans' benefits ~ so they are only too happy to believe the senior civil servants in Charlottetown who tell them that the complaints come from only a tiny handful of malcontents who will never be satisfied with anything.



Unfortunately, when we look at "What is good for the goose, is good for the gander", we are not seeing that.  Unless our politicians start applying the same economic reforms to their salaries and benefits as they apply to the Public Service, RCMP, CAF and others under their control, we will not see that culture change.


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## Privateer

More from Rick Mercer, on (what he states is) the injustice of injured, serving CF members being discharged on account of combat injuries shortly before they are eligible to receive their pensions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R79U0PGpxDM&feature=share&list=UUt3Ag7rdgR6mtzOMEhd_v6g


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## vonGarvin

I personally think that Rick Mercer is an arrogant person who is exploiting the fact that it's soon to be Remembrance Day, and on a normal day doesn't give a fiddler's hooey over any CAF members.  I think that his agenda is more Anti-Harper than Pro CAF.


:2c:


Edit to add: 

I didn't see this earlier.  I agree:



			
				E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> He's trying to cash in on November 11th: shame on him.


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## Pusser

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I personally think that Rick Mercer is an arrogant person who is exploiting the fact that it's soon to be Remembrance Day, and on a normal day doesn't give a fiddler's hooey over any CAF members.  I think that his agenda is more Anti-Harper than Pro CAF.
> 
> 
> :2c:



I don't think that's a completely fair statement.  I've always seen Rick Mercer as a pretty stand-up guy (notwithstanding that he's actually quite short) and a good supporter of the CF.  Even back in the Decade of Darkness, I remember one of his rants where he came out very strongly in support of the CF and said what great things we were doing.  We were still under the shadow of the Somalia debacle at the time, so he was supporting the troops when it wasn't cool to do so.  The conclusion of his rant was that we deserved a pay raise (our pay was frozen at the time).  I've also been led to believe that one of the reasons he left _This Hour Has 22 Minutes_, was his disagreements with Mary Walsh over the issue.


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## pbi

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I personally think that Rick Mercer is an arrogant person who is exploiting the fact that it's soon to be Remembrance Day, and on a normal day doesn't give a fiddler's hooey over any CAF members.  I think that his agenda is more Anti-Harper than Pro CAF.



I disagree. Rick Mercer has a long track record of association with, and support for, the CAF. This is not just "flavour of the month" for him. If a person of his stature is willing to stand up for vets, good on him. We should encourage him.


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## Edward Campbell

I don't know Rick Mercer and I don't know much about him. But he's in business, and his business involves staying in the public eye with timely and somewhat controversial _rants_. He's good at his business and this rant, in my opinion, is just business.


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## The Bread Guy

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> I don't know Rick Mercer and I don't know much about him. But he's in business, and his business involves staying in the public eye with timely and somewhat controversial _rants_. He's good at his business and this rant, in my opinion, is just business.


Agree to a certain extent that it's _all_ "show biz" at one level, but ....


			
				pbi said:
			
		

> I disagree. Rick Mercer has a long track record of association with, and support for, the CAF. This is not just "flavour of the month" for him. If a person of his stature is willing to stand up for vets, good on him. We should encourage him.


.... he _has_ been an honorary colonel, and has provided coverage of the things the CF does, so I'm not willing to dismiss this as JUST Harper Bashing.


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## vonGarvin

As I said, it's just my opinion.  It was free, and worth every penny  :nod:


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## Remius

I remember sometime during or right after the Ice Storm, he ranted (on THH 22 Mins) about how CF members were paid litteraly a few dollars an hour to do what they did and supported pay hikes.  He also visited the troops in afghanistan in 2003.

He may be anti-Harper and yes some stuff he's said is a bit out there at times but he's been nothing but pro-troops as far as I can see.


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## medicineman

He also slammed Mel Lastman of Toronto for "...screaming like a little girl for the Army..." to dig out Toronto after a bit of snow came down.  He did this while acting as MC for the Halifax Comedy Festival one year.

MM


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## vonGarvin

Crantor said:
			
		

> He also visited the troops in afghanistan in 2003.


He also called us "Peacekeepers"


He's a self-serving showman.


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## CombatDoc

Crantor said:
			
		

> He also visited the troops in afghanistan in 2003.


He also visited KAF in July 2011.


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## Loachman

So, as a "self-serving showman", how did he undeservedly profit from his visit on Dominion Day in 2011? He, too, is entitled to make a living doing something. I cannot understand your problem with him.

What has he ever done to you?


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## PMedMoe

Crantor said:
			
		

> He also visited the troops in afghanistan in 2003.



And in 2005.


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## OldTanker

And Bosnia in 2001.


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## CombatDoc

Loachman said:
			
		

> So, as a "self-serving showman", how did he undeservedly profit from his visit on Dominion Day in 2011? He, too, is entitled to make a living doing something. I cannot understand your problem with him.
> 
> What has he ever done to you?


I have no beef with RIck Mercer.  I enjoy his humour, and his visit to the troops is done as a public service, not as a self-serving showman.  He's like Don Cherry in that regard - they visit the troops because they want to, not because they need to.


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## Pusser

Technoviking said:
			
		

> He also called us "Peacekeepers"
> 
> 
> He's a self-serving showman.



He's hardly the only person to ever make the mistake of calling us peacekeepers.*  In all fairness, there are a lot of other folks out there who really should know better, but who have made the same mistake.  Sometimes, people have to use the terms that others understand (or think they do), even it they're not strictly correct.

Yes, of course he's a showman.  That's what he does for a living.  However, he has also used his high profile to bring attention to issues that would sometimes otherwise be ignored.   Love him or hate him, everybody talks about him and everybody thinks about what he says.  That in itself is in the public interest.

*Peacekeeping is an operation, not an occupation.


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## vonGarvin

I'm sorry for having an opinion about someone, something I don't need to justify to you or anyone.  We all have someone we don't like.  I don't like Rick Mercer.  

Big fucking deal.


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## Journeyman

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I'm sorry for having an opinion about someone, something I don't need to justify to you or anyone.  We all have someone we don't like.  I don't like Rick Mercer.
> 
> Big fucking deal.


  I see the uber-sensitivity training is coming along nicely.    :stirpot: 



 ;D


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## vonGarvin

Journeyman said:
			
		

> I see the uber-sensitivity training is coming along nicely.    :stirpot:
> 
> 
> 
> ;D



:rofl:


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