# CADPAT in Afghanistan



## onecat (13 Feb 2003)

"We have supposedly taken delivery of enough ARID pattern CADPAT for at least one battlegroup, probably two, and that was as of last summer (after we came back from ‘ghani.)"

I‘ve heard a lot of talk about how we sent troops to Afghanistan in green based camo, and how bad that was.  So I thought I would ask people here what they think.  I‘m not sure if any Afghanistan vets on this site but what are feelings. I‘ve seen pictures from Afghanistan with members of 3 PPCI and believe it or not there was green and yes even trees.  My feeling is that CADPAT was okay, it would been better to have the new Arid style but they were‘t ready.  And way better than using American uniforms.  At least this way: to the world we were actually there.  I know I might take flak for this but I feel its a sign of a colony to wear someone else‘s uniform.


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## Korus (13 Feb 2003)

A 3 PPCLI Sgt came and gave a presentation the day of our christmas dinner (Apparently just the christmas dinner didn‘t count for a full day‘s pay, so we did some professional development along with the local res Infantry unit). We saw pictures, and like you said there was a lot of green in some of them. He also said that at night, you could see the American desert Camo from _a lot_ farther away than the darker CADPAT.


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## combat_medic (13 Feb 2003)

Also, according to one of the company commaders I spoke to, when they got into the mountains and caves and such, the green was far less conspicuous than the desert pattern.


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## DnA (21 Feb 2003)

from what I‘v seen on the documentry‘s of canadians in afghanistan, an of interviews on the news, the CADPAT was great during night, an in the forested area‘s, but in the desert parts, in daytime, they stuck out

but, hopefully on the next ROTO if Canadians go back to Afghanistan or possibly Iraq(probly not for atleast a while) they will have the ARID CADPAT


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## Korus (21 Feb 2003)

The rumors I hear say that they‘d get the old style dessert cammo, not the cadpat stuff.. 
But like I say, they‘re just rumors that I‘ve heard.

(Desert, Dessert? I always mix those two up, and always end up thinking of ice cream)


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## DnA (21 Feb 2003)

the tan uniforms?


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## Zoomie (21 Feb 2003)

Not likely that they will be wearing the old Tans.  They were all sold as surplus in the mid-nineties.  That was the reason why our troops wore their Relish Cadpats to Afghanistan.  Apparently, the ARID Pattern CADPAT is ready for distribution.  As for the issue of green being good at night vice the tans, and the tans being good during the day.  Why not take both?  Problem solved...


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## DnA (21 Feb 2003)

well, taking both would be extra kit, more weight

an changing uniforms for each time of day, dont think many people would like that idea

but, if a unit is moved from a desert area or a forested area for missions in Afghanistan, it would work good for that


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## Jarnhamar (21 Feb 2003)

Someone might argue if we are "peacekeeping" in afganastan there is no need for camo uniforms.


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## combat_medic (22 Feb 2003)

Don‘t count on anyone wearing the tans. The entire supply of them was sold to a surplus store in Ontario. They aren‘t even in the system, and the only people who would have them are people who were in Somalia a decade ago.


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## gate_guard (22 Feb 2003)

The some tans are still in the system, we were using them this past summer for OPFOR.


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## klumanth (27 Feb 2003)

I don‘t think we are even considered as peacekeepers in afganistan.  We are there as part of NATO, not the UN.  

I know some of the guys that just came back and in their pictures they were not wearing the cadpats.  They had some sort of desert wear.


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## Troopasaurus (24 Mar 2003)

I noticed the US marines are wearing the woodland BDU‘s with mirpat helmets in southern Iraq does anyone know why this is ?


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## Michael Dorosh (24 Mar 2003)

The woodland stuff is actually their version of the bunny-suit - ie a protection against nuclear, biological, chemical weapons.  They apparently don‘t produce them in a desert pattern, or if they do, they haven‘t been issued.


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## Jason Jarvis (29 Mar 2003)

I would agree with radiohead that wearing another country‘s uniforms is demeaning, although maybe perhaps not colonial. It‘s definitely NOT the image we want to be projecting to the world (individual cases not withstanding, such as our snipers using British desert-pattern DPMs).

I actually thought the CADPATs gave our soldiers a significant psychological advantage -- they looked mean! I brought this up at work, where I‘m surrounded by left-leaning liberal fence-sitters, and they all agreed that the Canadians had a far more menacing air about them than the Americans did.

The Arid CADPATs look great too -- it‘s wonderful to see Canadians in appropriate kit.

Regardless of what our soldiers wear, however, their professionalism always seems to be the first thing I notice whenever I see them on video or in pictures. It‘s not an arrogance or disdain for the "locals" -- whomever they might be -- but an air of confidence and an aura of control. No wonder we‘ve been so effective as both peacemakers and peacekeepers over the years.


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## Illucigen (29 Mar 2003)

MMm. It partially comes down to the fact that as a small army in the global context, our soldiers are not trained as though they are just one more number to be added to the great roster of things.

As well, our soldiers actually know how to fix things when they are broke, and dont go crying foul and demanding a new piece of kit, just because they know their army will buy it.

America‘s doctrine is one of technological superiority and weapons. Canada‘s is one of training and people. Its no wonder why we constantly beat them in "war games" even though we either borrow their equipment or go in with less technology.


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## Fishbone Jones (29 Mar 2003)

MD,
Just spent two weeks at the Bug School in Borden. There are new arid pattern CADPAT IPE suits in the system. There is also, apparentley, thousands of sets of arid pattern CADPAT combats in Pet awaiting issue, possibly to Op Athena guys.


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## Korus (29 Mar 2003)

It‘s been kind of interesting seeing arid MARPAT on the occasional soldier in photos and videos from Iraq....


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## bossi (30 Mar 2003)

(chuckled when I found this on MSNBC ... sounded oh, so familiar ... and then they even went so far as to mention Canada!)


Why Are U.S. Troops Wearing Dark-Green Camouflage?
By Brendan I. Koerner
Posted Wednesday, March 26, 2003, at 12:11 PM 

Despite the desert conditions of the Iraqi campaign, many American soldiers are sporting deep-green combat fatigues. Why are some troops donning woodland camouflage?

According to published reports, the Pentagon simply goofed by not anticipating the demand for sand-colored desert fatigues, formally known as battle-dress uniforms. When Army and Marine units were preparing for deployment, several discovered that they lacked enough desert BDUs to outfit each soldier with the requisite three outfits. The UPI reports that the Army‘s 4th Infantry Division, headquartered at Fort Hood, Texas, chose to dress all its troops in the more traditional green fatiguesâ€”commonly referred to as woodland BDUsâ€”rather than have only some don desert dress. Homogeneity is generally preferred among military commanders.

Units that departed for the Middle East earlier this year were promised fresh BDUs upon arrival, but shipments have been slow to arrive; support commanders are reporting that they‘re already out of desert fatigues. The Pentagon‘s Defense Supply Center in Philadelphia has ordered manufacturers to increase production of desert camouflage at the expense of woodland BDUs.

A dearth of appropriately stealthy uniforms was also a problem during Gulf War I, as many U.S. troops were forced to wear dark green. The Pentagon learned at least one lesson from the 1991 conflict, however: The Marines‘ anti-chemical-weapons suits, known as Mission-Oriented Protective Posture clothing, used to only be available in woodland patterns. The latest MOPP gear features a three-color desert design.

Military leaders insist that the shortage of desert BDUs will not affect the safety of American soldiers. They point out that Iraq‘s terrain is not entirely Sahara-like, and that green camouflage may actually work better near the banks of the Euphrates River, where vegetation and mud are present.

Bonus Explainer: The Pentagon is not alone in its camouflage foibles. The Canadian military was heavily criticized for dispatching troops to Afghanistan in woodland dress during Operation Enduring Freedom. Earlier this month, Canada‘s red-faced Defence Department officially put a "rush" on an order for desert BDUs, which will be sent to the 2,000 peacekeepers the country has committed to Afghanistan.


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## humint (3 Apr 2003)

I‘d like to point out that I was recently issued three sets of olives with 1984 stamped on the inside. Man, that‘s harsh, especially when the untrained privates in the high school co-op program are running around with cadpat and here is an ocdt in olives circa 1980s. I don‘t mind, though, as one of my uniforms has a blood stain across the shoulder. Nothing like a bit of history on your clothes!


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## Korus (3 Apr 2003)

It was rather ammusing on my basic last summer, how some people had ‘shadow‘ ranks on their uniforms, in that the uniform was a bit darker green where the previous owner‘s rank had been. There was even someone with a uniform that had belonged to a CWO.


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## onecat (3 Apr 2003)

Hey I found this site thought you guys might enjoy it.

 http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm


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## Michael Dorosh (4 Apr 2003)

When I joined in 1987, I got issued a green balaclave dated 1952; it was still mint and is part of my Korean War display now.

When in England in 1990, I was issued a wool blanket dated 1942.

If it works, use it!

Things are getting better; I did my basic in 1988 with a rifle dated 1959.  I was born in 1969....

I‘m sure we all have similar stories!


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## henleykg (6 Nov 2003)

Radiohead,

That HYPERSTEALTH site is completely wrong and the guy who edits it is an idiot.

There are no hidden symbols in MARPAT. I know, I helped develop it. The insignia that we put into the pattern is a distinct and clear Eagle,Globe and Anchor with the letters USMC directly underneath it and it can be easily identified.

He is also way way way off the mark about the Canadian involvement in the development of MARPAT.

Read here for more info:

 http://www.militarymorons.com/misc/misc.html#marpat


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## mattoigta (6 Nov 2003)

I was on the DND website and it featured pictures of recce guys in Afghanistan donning the ARID CADPAT.

  http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/feature_story/2003/oct03/30_f_e.asp


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## 2007brennanm (24 Jun 2009)

Just wondering, i cant find anything on it, but i have seen a lot of pics of canadian soldiers with a checkered black and white pyramid of squares on their left shoulder, is that a specific unit, and if i is what unit is it?


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## Oh No a Canadian (25 Jun 2009)

2007brennanm said:
			
		

> Just wondering, i cant find anything on it, but i have seen a lot of pics of Canadian soldiers with a checkered black and white pyramid of squares on their left shoulder, is that a specific unit, and if i is what unit is it?



It's the ISAF symbol, ISAF stands for International Security Assistance Force. Don't quote me on this part but I think anyone can get one and they are optional to wear.

And next time don't open a 6 year old topic, just make a new one.


[Edit to strike out advice.]


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## dangerboy (25 Jun 2009)

It is *NOT* the ISAF Symbol, for operational security reasons I will not go into details but rest assured it is not an ISAF patch.


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## dangerboy (25 Jun 2009)

This is what the ISAF patch looks like


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## 2007brennanm (25 Jun 2009)

That is not the patch i am talking about, thanks for anwsering quickly thought it was like 10 minutes. but i looked again and it is a black and white patch. It is square and it goes horizontally - white - black - white, then another row of all white. What is the patch and what units have it.


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## 2007brennanm (25 Jun 2009)

like dangerboy said you dont have to go into detail but what units wear it, because i have seen some soldiers with them and some that dont?


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## Oh No a Canadian (25 Jun 2009)

My bad, I have been misinformed. But I am curious as to why he should put the question in a topic which was last used 6 years ago especially when his question has nothing to do with the topic.


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## George Wallace (25 Jun 2009)

2007brennanm said:
			
		

> like dangerboy said you dont have to go into detail but what units wear it, because i have seen some soldiers with them and some that dont?



Suffice it to say, all units wear them.


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## George Wallace (25 Jun 2009)

Oh No a Canadian said:
			
		

> My bad, I have been misinformed. But I am curious as to why he should put the question in a topic which was last used 6 years ago especially when his question has nothing to do with the topic.



He is asking a question reference the topic.  It has to do with the uniform being worn in Afghanistan, which is CADPAT.  He is asking a relevant question about an article worn on that uniform.


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