# Merged 64 Pattern Rucksack thread



## PTE Gruending (5 Feb 2003)

IE: The old style of ruck? And the old style, "smaller" and green beret?
Thanks


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## DnA (5 Feb 2003)

an Army Surplus would be the best store to goto


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## SpinDoc (5 Feb 2003)

If by the "older" ruck you mean ‘64 pattern ruck frame, you can search for it on ebay using "lightweight rucksack"... the US Vietnam ruck is the same as the ‘64 pattern ruck.


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## Korus (8 Feb 2003)

Apparently the ‘64 pattern is still in the system, but only for really small people..


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (11 Sep 2003)

Anyone out there know where I can get the main pouch for a 64 pattern? I have a frame. Or is there a way to Mcgiver the current pouch to it?                                                           Carry on!


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## combat_medic (11 Sep 2003)

I have an 82-pattern bag on a 64-pattern frame, so it is possible. If you‘re still looking for a 64-pattern bag, you may want to try army surplus stores. In Toronto, there must be some available.


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (11 Sep 2003)

Did you mount your valise above or below your pouch? What i‘m getting at is that I have tried a few positions on the frame and it doesn‘t look or feel right with the 82 pattern bag. Maybe I need more gun tape!!                                                    Carry on!


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## ninty9 (12 Sep 2003)

More gun tape is always the answer.


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## SpinDoc (12 Sep 2003)

You should be able to mount an 82 pattern bag over the 62 pat frame without too much problems except for the kidney pad.  The end product should be virtually indistinguishable from the 82 pattern if you look at it from the back -- which means the valise goes on the bottom.

What you do is you wrap the top lips of the bag over the top bar -- the corners might get a little snug so don‘t aim for perfection.  Wrap the rest of the straps in the midsection around the frame... and you should be good to go.  The valise on my ruck is roughly halfway past the bottom rung of the frame, but it‘s secured by the usual straps.

Or if you want to shell out $$$ Wheeler‘s has a specially designed bag for it, old style valise above.


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## Cpt. Kap (25 Sep 2003)

I have a 64 pattern Ruck frame and Webbing set. Does anyone have a old info sheet on assembly??
I have no idea how to put this together and to do it wrong would result in death by RSM. I also would not use my 82 ruck bag also for fear of death. Any information picturs or the like would be appreciate. --RK--


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## SpinDoc (25 Sep 2003)

Try this site:

  http://www.geocities.co.jp/Outdoors/9378/manuals/lwruck2e.htm  

Or search for "Lightweight Rucksack" -- that‘s the U.S. Vietnam conflict-era counterpart.


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## Armymedic (27 Sep 2003)

You can check the surplus stores for a copy of the bag for the ruck. I have seen them in the store in West Edm Mall when I was there this spring. It came in CADPAT as well as OD and black. the shoulder strap assembly from the 82 pattern works well it you have the frame. 

3 RCR issues them out to Para with a new built bag of material similar to the 82 ruck bag. You may find them out and about too.


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (8 Jun 2004)

I have the frame and the main bag for a jump ruck but can't mate them up together properly. Any ideas where I can find a diagram on how to mate them together. Thanks.


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## D-n-A (8 Jun 2004)

I dunno if this will help or not, but here's the instructions on how to attach a ruck on the US Light Weight Ruck(Vietnam Era ruck, its similar to the Canadian 64 one I think)

http://www.thevietnam-database.co.uk/HowtoRuck/Attaching.htm


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (9 Jun 2004)

Thanks alot DNA thats helps alot. It seams my ruck is not as complete as I thought. Again thanks Cheers!


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## oakleaf (1 Oct 2004)

Hey guys i just completed my new 64 pat ruck suck. I was going to make a detailed description (with pictures and all) on how to put the ruck togeather using the following components

1 64 pat frame
1 64 pat bag (ppcli has a really good one)
1 82 pat shoulder strap assembly
1 82 pat kidney belt (including waist strap)
2 valice straps (i just got them from mec)

if there are a few people that say they want to know how, ill start making the manual right away.

Cheers


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## gun plumber (1 Oct 2004)

ya post em! if you can also think of a way to fit our existing ruck onto the frame using present straps that would be appriciated too.
Question-do you require a medical chit to use the jump ruck frame?


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## PPCLI Guy (1 Oct 2004)

I have the new bag on the old frame - it was fairly simple to do, and I didn't need any extra straps.  I added a civilian waist belt, and it is the cat's a@@.


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## oakleaf (1 Oct 2004)

gun plumber, i dont htink you need a chit for that. In my unit they allow people to use the 64, some incourage it. Its a strong frame compared to the wire frame of our 82. IT also focuses the heavy wait on the upper back the way it should of been. Im sure you have hear this already. But with my experience so far, you do not need a chit, but ask your sec 2ic or someone on those lines if you can use it.


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## oakleaf (1 Oct 2004)

Ohh sorry guys i forgot im starting to make the manual now, should take 2-3 days 

cheers


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## gun plumber (1 Oct 2004)

PPCLI guy:
I dont mean to sound like a newb,but if you could tell me how,without any additional hardware to do it I would really appriciate it. I only have the frame,no straps for that pattern.


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## PPCLI Guy (1 Oct 2004)

gun plumber said:
			
		

> PPCLI guy:
> I dont mean to sound like a newb,but if you could tell me how,without any additional hardware to do it I would really appriciate it. I only have the frame,no straps for that pattern.



OK - I did it a long time ago, but I have my ruck in front of me...

Use the shoulder strap assembly from the 82 ruck.  Put it on the frame - it is fairly straight forward.

Then put the back / hip rest assembley on the 64 frame - again it is straightforward.

Lace the 82 bag to the top of the 64 frame.  Tighten up the existing straps at the mid way point of the 82 bag.

Add in civie waist belt

Bob is your uncle...


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## gun plumber (2 Oct 2004)

Thanks sir(looked at your profile)If it comes from you it gotta work.Ever give any troops grief for showing up with it?You know the old "Let me see your chit"or "is that on your docs?"


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## PPCLI Guy (2 Oct 2004)

gun plumber said:
			
		

> Thanks sir(looked at your profile)If it comes from you it gotta work.Ever give any troops grief for showing up with it?You know the old "Let me see your chit"or "is that on your docs?"



No sirs here...

And no, I never gave a troop a hard time for showing up with issue kit that worked!  It would be just palin wrong to tell troops to do one thing, and then do the opposite yourself.


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## Blackhorse7 (4 Dec 2004)

I'm an ex-member who never got to use the 64 pattern ruck, just the 82.  What are the pro's and cons?  I am debating getting a 64 pattern from CP Gear, as I know it will be built well, but I'm also thinking civvy side.  Thoughts?


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## chrisf (4 Dec 2004)

There are a variety of other manufacturers that produce 64 pattern bags... heck, I've got an original one that requires some repair (Some of the straps were cut for some unknown reason, I didn't check it over well enough before I bought it, should be a simple matter to repair though, I just haven't gotten around to doing it)

The PPCLI online kit shop has a two different copies of the bag for sale as well 


http://kitshop.ppcli.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=218&osCsid=fb6e541e5c4ed7880e82324ef5d8e6a0


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## 4CDO PARA (17 Dec 2004)

I have used both, I use the 64 now. In my opinion it is FAR superior for comfort, load carriage and ease of use.


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## sapper332 (17 Dec 2004)

I personally prefer the '64 pattern myself. Though hard to find frames in good repair, as Sig Op said, there are many bags avail throughout the system... just need a decent frame to strap it to!
  I also agree with ABN RFN - with the new Tac Vest and Gen III vest - the '64 ruck seems to ride better over your gear. The '82 pattern has NEVER been a welcome addition to the system.
   With the new small pack system that is slowly coming into the system however - you'll find you may not even need a rucksack any more - the damn thing can carry (by volume of the combined pouches) MORE than the '82 ruck! (Even has place to strap a valise to!)
   In the in - yes, the '82 pattern is a lovely piece of kit for inspections and stuffed into your locker at work. In the bush it's too bulky, has poor strap/ closure method and exterior pouches which are inconvenient and never seem to be big enough to store your - "go fast" gear.

Chimo!


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## 4CDO PARA (17 Dec 2004)

Unfortunately, despite the new small pack system, we won't be ditching our 64 pattern rucks anytime soon as the small pack is not "jump-able". At least until we get the new Rucksack, which I hear has a far superior new system for rigging and jumping with. Until then, no complaints about the 64 pattern ruck at all, as far as frames go the riggers at CPC have been really good to us in terms of replacing our broken ones. There are some popular mods you can do to your 64 ruck as well. Many of the soldiers in my unit have replaced the kidney pad/belt and shoulder straps with either high speed civvie rigs or the upgraded version produced by the riggers. I have also used pipe insulation ( closed cell foam you can buy at any hardware store ) and guntape to reinforce the shoulder straps and cushion the frame. While some guys go overboard and end up with a monstrosity that looks more like a couch than a rucksack, a few mods can make it MUCH more comfortable on those long humps. It is amazing what a Canadian can do with a roll of gun/duct tape.


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## Matt_Fisher (17 Dec 2004)

ABN RFN said:
			
		

> It is amazing what a Canadian can do with a roll of gun/duct tape.



You mean like Red Green on Handyman's Corner?   ;D

If the enemy doesn't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.


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## Steel Badger (18 Dec 2004)

PPCLI Guy

I agree with you 100 percent......

Tho I have encountered many many Senior pers who were very displeased with me for following your philosophy.....


 :


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## HootbornE (27 Dec 2004)

I have had the 82 pat bag on 64 pat ruck for over 17 years.   The bag fits (with few alterations that I am sure any soldier can figure out)..   As for the waist belt, the American ALICE waist belt is the cats meow.. (if you ever use the damn thing)..   All belts get in the way of your web gear anyway..   They just keep the thing a bot more comfy when throwing it on eth truck or int he car..  Now I know I will hear the marching order and fighting order stuff.. Save that for the parade square..  I am sure that are still RSm's out there who want the troops to wash their kit every week for CO's parade..  How many times I saw fighting kit in washing machines still amazes me...  

Now that we are talking about web gear...   Unfortunately the new stuff (ii see there is already a bunch of posts on it) isn't going to fix the blaring problems with our total inadiquicies in ammo (mag), grenade and other essetiessentials including snivel kit like  food.. you know the stuff you need to fight with..   

oh well..   we should not expect anything great form Ottawa on such things .. or we would not have the LSVW, ILTIS, no armour, no training, no ammo and the list gores on..   Bit of a rant and bit off topic so I have dawned my asbestos suit so flame on!! :rage:


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## McGowan (30 Dec 2004)

I use a different Cadpat ruck, still has all the same pockets and stuff on it. I will post pictures!


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## The_Falcon (2 Jan 2005)

actually oak leaf, your legs should be bearing the majority of the weight to the fact the largest and strongest muscles in your body are all leg muscles.  No matter what style ruck you should use a hipbelt as webbing is being phased out.  Despite all of it's other shortcoming the TV was designed so you can use one (a hipbelt that is).  Sometimes I wonder at the people who wear their TV at their waist and use either the 64 or 82 ruck (without a belt cause there is no room, yeah whatever :) and they still complain about back pain.


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## chrisf (14 Jan 2005)

Ok, I've searched through the archives, and what I've found is this...

It is possible to attach a 82 pattern bag to a 64 pattern frame.

What I'm curious about, is is it possible to attach the other EIS from the 82 pattern ruck (The shoulder straps/backpad/belt) to the 64 pattern frame? As a frame with a bag is useless without some way to wear it...

If it's not possible, any suggestions of alternatives?


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## Armymedic (14 Jan 2005)

Shoulder straps yes, kidney pad, no (straps too short). The US Alice pack kidney pad/waist belt fits fine though.

There are alot of suitable alternates to all parts.


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## chrisf (14 Jan 2005)

Thanks, I'll look into the ALICE parts.


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## gun plumber (14 Jan 2005)

Or sew longer straps to the 82 pattern kidney pad.They don't have to be super long,just 2" longer.Thats all I did.


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## Freddy Chef (15 Jan 2005)

http://www.wheelersonline.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=&txtsearchParamCat=36&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch

They (^) also have olive drab ladder locks and slide-release buckles (FASTEX) in stock. E-mail RECCE them to ask about order/product modifications.

The 82 Pattern Ruck yoke and quick-release straps work well with the 64 pattern frame.

IMHO, Rigger Belts make effective sleeping bag straps for your 82 Pattern or 64 Pattern Ruck.


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## Fusaki (15 Jan 2005)

It was tight, but I got my 82 pattern Kidney pad to fit on my 64 pattern frame. I used two gerbers to grab the straps and force them through the buckles, then pull them through the other side. Also, I only got the top strap and bottom strap connected so I just leave the middle stap done up but not attached to the frame.

I never said it was easy, but it IS possible. I'll take some pics when I get back to Pet.


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## D-n-A (15 Jan 2005)

I bought the Canadian Peacekeeper hippad, all the other parts are '82 pat, an I used a few zap straps to secure the bag to the frame a bit better than with just paracord.


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## chrisf (15 Jan 2005)

I'd *rather* avoid anything from peacekeeper to be honest, their stuff is over priced for what you get as far as I'm concerned (Edit: Or at least it seems that way to me, compared to what you ge from other manufacturers)... I can get an ALICE pad for a couple of bucks vs $50 for the pad from peace-keeper.

That being said, it is still an option, how do you find it? (The peacekeeper parts)


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## D-n-A (16 Jan 2005)

Oh, yea the pad is really overpriced, but it is pretty good.


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## gun plumber (25 Jan 2005)

How thick is the foam,and how "squishy"is it?I'm getting the MAT tech's to make me a Knock-off of it and would just like to know.
Also,one thing I find helps is to attach fastex clips to the straps of your cover and the female end to the straps of your valise.By doing this you draw the sleeping bag up every time you cinch up the cover,there by making it a smaller package.Will post pics later to show what I mean.


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## s23256 (25 Jan 2005)

Another option for attaching the 82 kidney pad is to do the following:

1.get your hands on a couple of feet of webbing three ladder locks and three one way tabs (not sure of the technical term but the things that the webbing on the shoulder straps goes through so you can cinch them up)
2. cut the webbing into three staps about a foot long to make it easy to grab and melt the ends
3. feed the webbing through the one way tab on the kidney pad and pull it through a few inches
4. use the ladder lock to form a loop at the other end of the webbing with your new one way tab attached
5. you now have an extension on the standard straps so you can slip the existing strap from the other side of the pad through the new one way tab and attach it to your frame as you wish.

I'll try to get some pics up later


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## purple peguin (25 Jan 2005)

I find it can be a little light on the bottom if you attach the bag to the top, and for the hip pad problem i just sewed the few extra inches on, still modifying it.


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## sapper13 (27 Jan 2005)

I was wondering if anyone knows where a good place to pick up a bag for a 64 pattern ruck for fairly cheap in edmonton?


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## Yeoman (27 Jan 2005)

3vp kitshop if I'm not mistaken.
Greg


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## MCpl Burtoo (27 Jan 2005)

You can get one at the Regiment (PPCLI) Kit Shop.....maybe 3VP has one too, I don't know. Here is a link for it.

http://kitshop.ppcli.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=218&osCsid=410ab30a7c02767ccde88e2b18376007


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## Slim (27 Jan 2005)

A '64 pattern ruck?...Go to any surplus store in any major city. I can virtually guarantee that they will have at least one someplace on the premises.

You might have to mix and match the straps for it though.

Slim


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## sapper13 (27 Jan 2005)

i was also wondering where is a good place to pick up some straps, i think they are called A7 straps, in edmonton?


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## Yeoman (28 Jan 2005)

those are harder to find, but if you go to any good surplus store (which is harder and harder to find these days) you may be able to find those straps. I know you can get them through the system if you know the right people to prod (that's why you make friends in QM  )
the only place I've ever run across that has 64 stuff was in Oakville, and they had a TON of them. I've heard that in Kingston they have 64 stuff new in the bag still. but that doesn't help that much being you want Edmonton.
Greg


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## D-n-A (29 Jan 2005)

Supply Sgt in the West Edmonton mall was selling '64 ruck sacks last time I was there(September).


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## sapper13 (29 Jan 2005)

I going tomorrow to check it out and maybe celsurplus in morinville


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## Bomber for Life (1 Feb 2005)

Forlorn Hope said:
			
		

> You can get one at the Regiment (PPCLI) Kit Shop.....maybe 3VP has one too, I don't know. Here is a link for it.
> 
> http://kitshop.ppcli.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=218&osCsid=410ab30a7c02767ccde88e2b18376007



Thats just for a replacement bag, It dosn't include the frame, you will have to search surplus stores. Good luck though they are quite a hot commotedtiy.


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## Yeoman (1 Feb 2005)

Bomber for Life said:
			
		

> Thats just for a replacement bag, It dosn't include the frame, you will have to search surplus stores. Good luck though they are quite a hot commotedtiy.



I can get my hands on 50 frames right now. hot commotedtiy? only cuz I keep selling them for $40 a pop 
Greg


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## Sapper24 (2 Feb 2005)

Check out Canadian Peace Keeper, they are now selling the 64' Pattern ruck now too Here is the link to it

http://www.wheelersonline.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=&txtsearchParamCat=36&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch


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## Bomber for Life (3 Feb 2005)

Sapper24 said:
			
		

> Check out Canadian Peace Keeper, they are now selling the 64' Pattern ruck now too Here is the link to it
> 
> http://www.wheelersonline.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=&txtsearchParamCat=36&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch



again, that is just replacement bag/ harness, they don't sell the frame.


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## condor888000 (3 Feb 2005)

You can get the frame on ebay, good seller, bought from him before.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36077&item=2244976420


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## Bomber for Life (4 Feb 2005)

WOW!!!! $30 for a $2 aluminum frame! Clearly I am in the wrong business.


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## G-spot (28 Feb 2005)

Has anyone tried this stuff.  I thinking about ordering all of it but I'm not sure about the shoulder straps and back yoke.
If anyone can write a review it would be pretty helpful 


Thanks, Graeme


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## McGowan (28 Feb 2005)

www.dropzonetactical.com is better


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## D-n-A (1 Mar 2005)

I got the CP '64 pat lowerback/hip pad, no compliants with it so far, pretty comfortable too. An my brother has the whole CP '64 ruck an parts, he hasn't had any problems with his stuff.


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## 1feral1 (1 Mar 2005)

In CADPAT or OD?

I'd go the arid CADPAT here, as I do love the 64 ptrn ruck and bag, but the CADPAT sticks out like dogs balls here.

It would be excellent if a bunch of us could approach CP for a group buy of the arid CADPAT bag, straps and pads.

Any takers?

I reckon CP would do it if they had more interest. I am told they have access to arid CADPAT cordura and material.

Regards,

Wes


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## my72jeep (1 Mar 2005)

Wes go for it Mark has allways been good that way he might just run one off for you as a test. does not hurt to ask.


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## Yeoman (2 Mar 2005)

Wesley H. Allen said:
			
		

> In CADPAT or OD?
> 
> I'd go the arid CADPAT here, as I do love the 64 ptrn ruck and bag, but the CADPAT sticks out like dogs balls here.
> 
> ...



I do group orders off of CP all the time for airsofters so maybe I'll put that over to this board as well. let me get back to you in april (won't be around for march, things to do people to see)
Greg


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## 1feral1 (2 Mar 2005)

I'll be waiting with baited breath  

Cheers,

Wes


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## genesis98 (5 May 2005)

I recall seeing somewhere in a lesson plan a guy had a shelf on his 64 pattern ruck anybody know if this was an actual item made for the ruck or a home made piece of kit. I think it was the winter warfare basic lesson plan.


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## chriscalow (5 May 2005)

To attach the 82 pattern kidney pad, I just made some loops with para-cord to go around the frame at the points where the straps on the pad would go around if they were longer.  Had it on there for going on two years now, hasn't failed me yet.


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## kyleg (5 May 2005)

Has anyone ever seen an 82 pattern bag mounted upside down on the lower part of the 64 frame with the valise up on top? I'm pretty sure I saw it once, but I can't remember. If anyone knows how to do it I'd love to learn.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## Troopasaurus (6 May 2005)

Dropzone just updated its site again  . http://www.dropzonetactical.com/backpacks/64alice.html

Shows the 64 pattern components they make... prices will probably show up in a couple days like their last update.


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## TCBF (6 May 2005)

Metal Shelf: Yes. Rucksack, Universal, C2, did come with a metal shelf, that would allow you to carry an ammo crate, ration box, or jerry can for 'carry parties'.  We never called it a '64 pattern' ruck in the old days when we had 64 pattern webbing, because people would get confused with the Cargo Pack 1964, which WAS issued at the time of the 64 pattern webbing.


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## kyleg (7 May 2005)

Yeah I just noticed that new Dropzone pack. I've moved my keyboard to arm's length so as not to get any saliva on it. That is one sweet lookin pack.


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## Yeoman (7 May 2005)

that's one big kidney pad. looks like something that's up my alley. I should check that site more often.
I have seen the 82 bag put on the bottom, but it pretty much made the bag usless and you can't really store everything you'd need in it.
Greg


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## redleafjumper (7 May 2005)

Yes, the shelf was issue kit for carrying heavy loads on the '64 pattern ruck.   In my experience, if you got too ambitious with it it would bend.  I like the '64 pattern pack and I still use mine during hunting season (with its shelf).


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## TCBF (7 May 2005)

By " '64 pattern pack" do you mean Rucksack universal C2, or Cargo Pack 1964?  The cargo pack 1964 was issued with 1964 pattern webbing (which the militia never oficially got, so they never got the cargo pack), the Rucksack universal C1 and C2 (bag change from cotton duck to riubberized) is the one with assembly instructions in the Arctic and Sub-arctic operations manual. The Cargo pack has a web mesh backpad, but no frame.  The C2 ruck has a metal frame you attach straps, a pouched bag, and a sleeping bag carrier to.


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## PhilB (7 May 2005)

Forgive my ignornance, but I know theres a "guy" in Edmonton, a rigger I think that is producing 64 pat bags. Does anyone have any info for him, i.e. contact or a review of his product/slash service. Thanks guys


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## Infanteer (7 May 2005)

I'm pretty sure the "guy" is the maker of the ruckbag on my 64 frame - great work.  I think he deals with 1VP kitshop; try giving them a call.


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## westie47 (7 May 2005)

He made a pretty good ruck, however he ripped me off for $200.  I prepaid for one of his "pathfinder" rucks on the recommendation of others who said he was honest, etc and never got anything but the runaround. He asked me for my address about 6 times (every time I called him!) and said it got sent somewhere else.......and on and on and on...... It was a complete waste of time.  I guess since I lived in BC it was an easy score. Although I could have sold 10 more at least once troops saw it. Don't buy anything from that guy. If you want a name, pm me.


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## redleafjumper (8 May 2005)

When I say 64' pattern, I mean the rucksack C2, not the cargo pack.


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## kyleg (8 May 2005)

Does anyone know where I could find either a 64 pattern bag (I have the frame) or the US version from vietnam, the Lightweight Rucksack? I found one old 64 pat bag on St. Laurent but it was in terrible condition and they wanted 85 bucks for it. I think i'd actually prefer the US one, it seems to be a little bigger and it's made of a nice lightweight material.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## PhilB (8 May 2005)

Trying to find a bag from the era in decent condition is going to be tough. I would say that your best bet is to buy a reproduced one. As stated earlier in the thread there are lots of places these can be had, CP gear, Dropzone, PPCLI kit shop etc.


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## D-n-A (8 May 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> Does anyone know where I could find either a 64 pattern bag (I have the frame) or the US version from vietnam, the Lightweight Rucksack? I found one old 64 pat bag on St. Laurent but it was in terrible condition and they wanted 85 bucks for it. I think i'd actually prefer the US one, it seems to be a little bigger and it's made of a nice lightweight material.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pinky



Why do you want an era bag? Theres better newer produced ones out there in better/stronger material, bigger pouches, etc.

If your serouis about getting a US lightweight ruck check out the link below, every now an than you see a few lightweight rucks up for sale but they usually get sold pretty fast, also ebay might be good.

http://www.mooremilitaria.com/one_of_a_kind.htm


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## kyleg (8 May 2005)

The reason I'm looking for one of the old originals is because I'm a poor *******. Maybe I'm wrong but I assumed that one of the old bags would be cheaper than buying a new reproduction. Plus I don't have a credit card and convincing someone I know to let me use theirs for a purchase like that would be a little on the difficult side.

But maybe I'll just end up getting the CPGear bag, as it's the cheapest and I've heard good things about their products.

Thanks for the info guys.

Cheers,
Pinky


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## MCpl Wesite (27 Jun 2005)

is there an online instruction pam on how to put together the 64 pattern ruck. Just bought one.


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## kyleg (27 Jun 2005)

This is for the old US issue "Lightweight Ruck" from Vietnam. I hear it's pretty similar to our 64 pat bags, and it uses the same frame

http://www.thevietnam-database.co.uk/HowtoRuck/Attaching.htm

Cheers,
Pinky


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## the4thhorseman (30 Jun 2005)

Go to your unit pam library - ask for a pam on winter warfare -  SPECIFIC OPERATIONS - ARCTIC - one of the OLDER editions will have a complete detailed instruction on how to assemble the 64 pattern rucksack.  If that fails, contact anyone in the QOR - tasked parachute element, or any one of the PARA Company reps from any of the  Reg F units - they might help you


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## paracowboy (30 Jun 2005)

where are you? I don't know where your regt is. If you're anywhere near Edmonton, stop by 3VP Sigs Stores. I'll give you a hand.

If it's too far, I'll help as best I can via PM.


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## TCBF (30 Jun 2005)

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/300-002/B-GL-323/003/FP-001/B-GL-323-003-FP-001.pdf

There it is, read away!  It starts on page 47 of 455.  It has assy of Rucksack , Universal, C1 (which has since had the cotton duck bag replaced by the rubber one (early 70s) and re-named Rucksack, Universal C2).  Often erroneosly called "64 pattern ruck".  There is no 64 patt ruck, there IS however, a "Cargo Pack, 1964, which was issued with 64 pattern webbing. 

But today Ruck Uni C1/2 is known as a "64 Pattern Ruck" to most people who are too young to have carried a Cargo Pack 1964 (still got mine! ;D) 

"Feed your head." - Grace Slick

Tom


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## Matt_Fisher (4 Jul 2005)

TCBF said:
			
		

> There is no 64 patt ruck, there IS however, a "Cargo Pack, 1964, which was issued with 64 pattern webbing.
> ...most people who are too young to have carried a Cargo Pack 1964 (still got mine! ;D)



Is that the frameless pack that had 2 toggle closed external pouches on the ruck, a mesh back panel and had an integral zippered sleeping bag compartment?  If so, then yes, I have used that beast in the past (circa 1990).


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## TCBF (4 Jul 2005)

Yep.. that's the 1964 Cargo Pack.  Has a tump line, too.

Tom


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Jul 2005)

Man, I used to hate the move to winter! Stow the ruck in the closet and bring out that shapeless POS. It was like carrying a drunk around on your back every where you went. Don't miss it for anything.


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## TCBF (4 Jul 2005)

Best the other way around.  Cargo Pack 1964 with a half-bag in the summer, and Ruck C2 with full valise in the winter.  They stopped isuing the Cargo Packs, but we went Rucks all year round long before that.  We turned in the Cargo Packs when we turned in the 64 pattern webbing to get the 82 pattern. The Militia was never officially issued 1964 patt - going from 1951 patt (not 1954, 1954 patt is British) to 1982 patt, so most of them have not seen the cargo pack before.  No loss, guys.

Tom


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## Fishbone Jones (4 Jul 2005)

Tom,

It was a long time ago, and an experience I thought I'd forgotten, so it's somewhat foggy. Thanks loads for dredging that up out of the grey sludge settling in the bottom of my skull!


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## Black Watch (4 Jul 2005)

Does annyone has info on 64 pat webbing?


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## TCBF (5 Jul 2005)

Well, probably still lots of photos around in old 'Sentinel" magazines and the like.  What, specifically, do you need to know?

Tom


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## futuresoldier (5 Jul 2005)

I am thinking of orderinf the 64 pattern ruck from www.CPGear.com and I was just wondering, does it come with the frame? If not, where could i get one?


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## TCBF (5 Jul 2005)

Try asking them.  I imagine it would, otherwise it's a bag, not a ruck.  Ask them.  But:  check out the price as well.

Tom


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## TCBF (5 Jul 2005)

They want 85 bucks for the pack, but if you have ever put 60 lbs of kit and radio on a C2 Ruck, you know it hurts, so you might wan't to trick it out on your own, or with their Padded Hip Pad - $49 - Padded Yoke - $45 - Padded Yoke Pad $ 20, so now, we are up to $199 - plus the taxes - for a 40 year old pack that needed $114 of mods just so it won't kill you.  

I would say, try someone elses, and then try other rucks as well before you buy .

We hated that ruck when it was the only thing we had.  it was only ever good once we modded the heck out of it with padding for the hips and shoulders.  It was good to live out of - it won't fall over in the snow and dump your goch - but murder to carry.  

the only reason we kept it was because we could not jump the new one (82 pattern Large Pack), without bending it's frame.  To bend the frame of the C2 Ruck, you have to jettison it at about 800 feet AGL.  Preferably on a very dark night if you do it over the "A" (Remember that, Bell?  ;D).

Tom


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (5 Aug 2005)

Strongly recommend something modular. that way if you have to attach something your not hanging gear all over.


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## Krazy-P (6 Aug 2005)

What is everyone using in the field these days? i keep hearing kifaru , but i dont wanna spend like 600 bucks just to find out i cant use it in the field or on deployment


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## Infanteer (6 Aug 2005)

Uhh, how about a 64 pattern rucksack then....


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## Krazy-P (7 Aug 2005)

uhh....i was thinking of a 64 pattern, just wondered if anyone was allowed to use other rucks for deployment


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (7 Aug 2005)

I have never heard of anyone being allowed to not use their 64 on a tour. Have you ever checked out dropzonetactical.com? They have some pretty awsome bags for 64's. Also check out the mutha rucka!


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## Krazy-P (7 Aug 2005)

sorry for the confusion, but i just wanted to know if anyone can use something other than a 64 pattern ruck?


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## Fishbone Jones (7 Aug 2005)

BITTER PPCLI CPL said:
			
		

> I have never heard of anyone being allowed to not use their 64 on a tour.



Roto 0, Athena with 3RCR. We were told in no uncertain terms, if you weren't in a jump slot, ditch the 64.


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (7 Aug 2005)

I didn't know that the 64 was so prestige to jump units. And when was the last time Canada jumped over Afghanistan?


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## Roy Harding (7 Aug 2005)

BITTER PPCLI CPL said:
			
		

> I didn't know that the 64 was so prestige to jump units. And when was the last time Canada jumped over Afghanistan?



64 patterns are issued to personnel in Jump positions.  That's because the issue piece of garbage can't take the impact experienced upon landing.

The reference to Afghanistan was peripheral to recceguy's point.


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## Krazy-P (7 Aug 2005)

So every other soldier in afghanistan should use the piece of crap 82 pattern ruck just because they dont have a maroon beret?


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## Roy Harding (7 Aug 2005)

Krazy-P said:
			
		

> So every other soldier in afghanistan should use the piece of crap 82 pattern ruck just because they dont have a maroon beret?



Good point.  Unfortunately, the 64 pattern is no longer in production (as far as I know).  The fact remains that currently, the 64 patter is an operational requirement for jumpers, but not the rest of us.  I was fortunate in that I was able to retain my 64 pattern after leaving the Airborne Regiment back in '89.

As far as why the RSM of 3 RCR would not allow non-jump tasked soldiers to use it, I cannot comment upon - I wasn't there, and more importantly, I wasn't the RSM in question.


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## Krazy-P (7 Aug 2005)

i think i will take my chances when i go to afghanistan and take a 64 pattern ruck. what are they gonna do, send me home?


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## Roy Harding (7 Aug 2005)

Krazy-P said:
			
		

> i think i will take my chances when i go to afghanistan and take a 64 pattern ruck. what are they gonna do, send me home?



Brave words.  

Try repeating them to your Pl WO when your kit is inspected prior to departure.  Let us know how you make out.


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (7 Aug 2005)

Is your unit anal or WO one of those," back in my day we used only issued kit people"? Not to disrespect, but this is not back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I was raised to have respect for others and I do respect RANK. However it makes me so sick when you have one of those NCO's who thinks our issued kit is the greatest things since the invention of the wheel. Now I'm not saying we should be allowed to grow our hair long and have beards and where north face rucksacks. Up to certain point if it's cadpat or OD then why not, let the troops use it. As long as you have a repair kit in case. When troops are in field training for, dare I say it "war", who gives a crap about issued kit or uniformity! Discipline is important yes, BUT UNIFORMITY DOESN'T WIN BATTLES! I've heard this from one of my section commanders and in my short time I've always believed it. There is better kit out there, if a troop wants to spend his own cash then why not, as long as it's cadpat or OD or not easily noticed! I'm the one wearing it, I'm the one using it and I'm the one carrying it. Maybe the troops should be allowed to be soldiers and feel professional once and a while!


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## Infanteer (7 Aug 2005)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Roto 0, Athena with 3RCR. We were told in no uncertain terms, if you weren't in a jump slot, ditch the 64.



Bizzare.  I had no problems taking my modded '64 pattern overseas with me in 1VP.


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## RangerRay (7 Aug 2005)

On my 64 frame, I kept the 64 bag at the bottom and put on the 82 yoke and kidney pad but left off the belt (got in the way of the webbing!).

I didn't even think off putting the 82 bag on it... :-[


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## GO!!! (8 Aug 2005)

I went to A'stan with an '82 bag on a 64 frame in 2002. 

I used a pressure moulded foam hip belt from mec (80$ - but worth it) and lots of para cord to secure all of the loose ends. 

A7A straps x2 over the top and a third  wrapped around the middle to hold the rest of the crap in (M72, water, radio, claymores etc.) 

Issue shoulder straps, and 2x 2qts on the sides, bugeed on with tubular nylon over top to hide the white.

Worked really well for the first 4 months, then the frame broke - but once it was all back together it worked fine.

Of course you can get away with mods like that on tour. 

The end cost of the whole works was 80$ plus some elbow grease sewing some of the stuff into place. 

And once we had the first bug out kit inspection - it was right back to stock  :rage:


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## wongskc (10 Aug 2005)

Hey all, I'm looking for some advice from all those here with all that great field experience.

I have the opportunity to buy a 64 pattern frame from a buddy of mine, fairly cheap and in pretty good condition.  My question is simple: Is it worth it?  I know everyone here says it's the cat's arse compared to the 82 pattern, but I'm in the PRes, so I don't get too spend much time in the field.  I'm pretty new to the army so I don't know if its worth my money.  

Thanks in advance.


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## RangerRay (10 Aug 2005)

I think it's great!

I attached the 82 yoke and kidney pad (it's a bee-otch to get on) and left the original bag on.  I find it keeps the heavier kit in the valise higher up and more comfortable to carry.  Also sits high above the webbing butt-pack.

I've heard some guys here attach the 82 bag or other after market bags to the frame.  I never even thought to do something that original... :-[


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## Manimal (10 Aug 2005)

is there a link to a picture/discription of these items?


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## wongskc (10 Aug 2005)

No there isn't unfortunately.  He showed me the kit in person.  But as background for the kit goes, he was an uber-zeleous cadet in his youth and ordered it from wheelers.  Now he's older and trying to get rid of all the kind of junk he accumulated.  It's actually in very good condition (almost new condition, only about 4 years old).  There's no question about the state of the kit.

I guess the main question I'm asking is whether it's worth it for a reservist to spend money on kit if I'm only parading one evening a week and in the field only every other weekend.


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## Manimal (10 Aug 2005)

sorry, i should have pointed out i can't help you with it. i've never seen one, or even the 82 yoke, i'm new, and i wanted to see them for the differences.


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## wongskc (10 Aug 2005)

Ah, well in that case:

http://www.wheelersonline.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=&txtsearchParamCat=36&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch

That's the 64 pattern.  I don't know where you can get pics of an 82 though.


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## Infanteer101 (10 Aug 2005)

The 64 Ruck is probably one of the most versatile and compact pieces of kit that I have used (other than my TALON Camelbak pack) out in the field and on courses. It is surprisingly lightweight and comfortable (when paired up with the back pad available from Wheeler's website)and you can even throw your compact 1 or 2 litre camelbak on it (vice the standard 2 Litre US canteen) during LRPs or extended ruck marches and get away with it. I have heard this from many folks in jump tasked companies that it was something they wouldn't leave without (including their primary and reserve chutes of-course). It used to be standard issue as "C2 Jump Ruck" to para-tasked pers some 5 years back but don't know what the situation in with that. Nevertheless replacing the 64 ruck with the conventional one was one of the solid choices I made, especially when finishing the 48 hr 75 km Patrol I did a couple of years back, smiling and in one piece. Cheers!


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## paracowboy (10 Aug 2005)

> Is a 64 worth it?


yes


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## Hatless Dancer (12 Aug 2005)

If you buy one, try using the kidney pad from a US large ALICE pack, lighter, and doesnt absorb water like those 82 pattern waist sponges.


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## Andyboy (12 Aug 2005)

Hatless Dancer, 

Are you suggesting someone use non-issued kit? Doesn't that go against what you said in the other thread?


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## Hatless Dancer (12 Aug 2005)

Yes, with the caveat that when I did it, the kit we used was truly wretched. Have you ever worn 64 patern webbing? I did, in BATUS in 81, with 20 rd mags of ball beating me death in my upper comabat shirt mag pockets.


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## Andyboy (12 Aug 2005)

So the explanation for using a non issued ruck is that your webbing was "horrid"?


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (12 Aug 2005)

Hey wongskc, you don't need to be parading or going in the field to use the ruck. You can go on your own for a hike or make it part of your pt session. A lot of the boys I know, when they by something new don't just wait for exercise's, they do as I just mentioned. Trial and error baby!


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## Steel Badger (13 Aug 2005)

Hatless Dancer said:
			
		

> Yes, with the caveat that when I did it, the kit we used was truly wretched. Have you ever worn 64 patern webbing? I did, in BATUS in 81, with 20 rd mags of ball beating me death in my upper comabat shirt mag pockets.



OMG the memories!!!!


Then they gace me the C2...only time i willingly wore a bra.


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## LF(CMO) (14 Aug 2005)

wongskc said:
			
		

> Ah, well in that case:
> 
> http://www.wheelersonline.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=&txtsearchParamCat=36&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch
> 
> That's the 64 pattern.   I don't know where you can get pics of an 82 though.



 The 64 Ruck with the Wheeler modifications works really well.  I still have the original bag on mine, but with the Wheeler yokes etc.  The original 64 webbing was pretty skimpy.  The original 64 bag is a little small, but you can put some stuff in you valise.  I take two bunjis and run them vertically from top to bottom.  They help pull everything together and are great to hold a jacket and/or rain gear for quick, easy access.

 The Users Field Manual, 1982 Pattern Webbing, C-87-248-000/MB-001 shoud be available at your reserve unit.  However, ther is nothing in it that your buddies couldn't show you.


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## thatoldfool (25 Aug 2005)

'afternoon, all,

I'm looking at purchasing a 64 rucksack from our friends at Canadian Peacekeeper, and would like some advice.

Background: I am *not* in the reserve/reg forces at the moment, but am re-applying this september for the reserve entrey scheme for (infantry) officer, here in Quebec. I would like the kit that I buy to be useable when/if I get in (although I do plan to use it for civilian travel/camping, etc, as well). That being said:

Although cadpat rucks aren't going to be issued until 2006, can the CP one I get be cadpat, and be acceptable? My basic training would be happening Summer of 2006.

Secondly--what modular components should I get? At the moment, I'm thinking of getting:

2 large utility pouches
1 shovel/waterbottle pouch (camping without webbing)
1 C9 Pocket (for mess kit, camping without webbing)
1 Compression Pouch

Although--this: http://www.wheelersonline.com/2005Catalog/Images/CPGear-Product-Pics/5007lg.jpg
setup looks pretty good and practical as well.

So, what should I go for? Is the layout in the picture, minus the cover, a good one?

Much thanks,

-D


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## Krazy-P (25 Aug 2005)

if you arent in the military, just buy a real rucksack. i hear kifaru rocks.


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## Redeye (25 Aug 2005)

Cincinnatus said:
			
		

> 'afternoon, all,
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing a 64 rucksack from our friends at Canadian Peacekeeper, and would like some advice.
> 
> ...



Although my staff on CAP weren't too strict about the gear we used on course, I'm pretty sure having some hopped up 64 pattern aftermarket ruck won't fly on course.  It's about conformity, not being an individual.  Secondly, the modular pouches aren't compatible with a 64 pattern ruck.

If you're looking for something for camping and the like, go to MEC.  Their stuff is cheaper and as good or better quality.

BTW, the new ruck isn't likely to be fielded for several years.  2006 is a pipe dream.


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## D-n-A (25 Aug 2005)

I woulden't worry to much about buying extra kit untill your actually in an, get some experiance an decide for yourself what you need. As for what kit is allowed, depends on the unit.


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## qjdb (25 Aug 2005)

the rucksack that is in that picture of the cover, is actually their old 2004 modular rucksack, that has been replaced with their new modular packs.  It is not of the 64 pattern ruck.

and while most of the people on here slam cpgear, I like their stuff.  Of course, I am not 'using it hard', just weekends and things like that, nowhere that my life depends on it.  But I find it pretty good quality.  Of course, I don't have / can't afford a kifaru, or some of those other high-end products, so I really have nothing to compare it to.

I just wish that I had held out and gotten the new modular backpack, as the old one is not compatible to the molle/pals system of pouches.  Oh well, that is what I get for being a wanna-be kit slut, I guess 

Quentin


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## thatoldfool (27 Aug 2005)

First off, thanks for all the comments--in regards to basic training, aye, I'll run with whatever they give me, and in regards to the pack in the picture being a different, modular, pack--I was unaware, and so I appreciate the info.

However...I still want/need a ruck for civilian purposes, and am still torn as to what to get. the '64 pack looks so practical, and I really do like packs with a frame. However, I appreciate the modular patrol-pack, for its accessories, but am wary of being frameless, for those heavy-weight situations. Lastly--the ops pack looks amazing, but a bit expensive, and I wonder whether it is so much better than a '64 ruck, to justy a 50 dollar difference.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards teh '64 ruck, to be used for extended-period camping and hikes (week-to-2+ week treks). Two hoochies, a sleeping bag, rain gear, one large, tin, pot, hachet, water purifier, clothing, few random things, and food, are what i'm looking to pack.

As i actually like CP gear (all my old, CP, cadet kit is still holding up, 8 years later), I thought the people here might be able to give me some advice on it.


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## PhilB (27 Aug 2005)

IMHO the CPgear stuff is shite. The quality is substandard compared to basically every other reputable gear maker under the sun. If you are set on the 64 setup I would look into dropzone. Their quality is good and they have the modular bag that you want, here is the link www.dropzonetactical.com . Although pricey you always get what you pay for in the gear world. If you plan on using this pack mainly for civi hiking as stated there a many much better options than the 64. www.mec.ca , or my personal favorite www.kifaru.net . Just remember when thinking about CPgear where the advice/reviews are coming from. Granted I am not reg force but still militia infantry as opposed to Cadets, or cadet officers. It seems that the only good reviews the majority of their kit gets is from those that barely use it.


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## WogCpl (27 Aug 2005)

My 2 Cents.
All rucksacks suck, once they are loaded with a ton of kit :-[. No matter what you buy make sure it has well padded shoulder straps and a really good waist band. I have used some expensive rucks that are total crap, and some cheap ones with good shoulder straps and waistbands that really made carrying a heavy load....less uncomfortable. Check out the gear swap at www.mec.ca, some really good deals to be had.


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## WogCpl (27 Aug 2005)

PS> Phill is absolutely correct when he says CP gear is shite!


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## GO!!! (27 Aug 2005)

Second to PhilB

Canadian Peacekeeper stuff is crap, it is made poorly, cheaply and is comparable in price to the real deal, as has been mentioned. For Civilian purposes, buy a civilian ruck, they are far better than anything the army has - yet. If you really feel the need to spend some $$$, buy an arc'teryx from their LEAF (Law Enforcement Armed Forces) Program. This is truly quality gear.

As to the use of a 64 pattern ruck, you can only attach a good waistbelt with SIGNIFICANT modifications. If you lack an industrial strength sewing machine, you will have to find one.

In the army we use the 64 because it is the best thing available TO US, not because we have a choice.


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## BITTER PPLCI CPL (27 Aug 2005)

I'm assuming GO is in the 3rd and in a jump coy and that the cp 64 ruck accessories can't handle being smacked into the ground when they jump, that being said, I have a CP bag, waist belt, backpad, and shoulder straps and I never had problem yet in the last 2 years since I purchased it. And thats on exercise's, courses, pt and using it on my own. I don't know maybe it's the way owner configures it, I honestly couldn't tell you. Another good place (from what I hear) is dropzone, a little pricy, but good quality kit!


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## thatoldfool (27 Aug 2005)

Well, based on the mixed reviews I've gotten, I might just hold out until I go to basic, and make a decision after that, or, if some big hike does appear on the horizon, bite the CP-bullet, and just get the pack and make up my own mind.

Once again, thak you for the replies, gentlemen.


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## GO!!! (27 Aug 2005)

All I'm saying is that for that amount of money, there is better stuff out there.

Blackhawk
Kifaru
Dropzone
MEC

etc...


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## LF(CMO) (28 Aug 2005)

Cincinnatus, actually you can't purchase the '64 Ruck from CP.  What they provide is the accessories to replace the original gear, straps etc.  You have to find the frame.  They also provide the pack itself which they advertise as '20% bigger' than the original.  For what I do now, I can get along with the original smaller pack putting any extras in the valise.  The replacement yokes, shoulder straps and hip pad that CP sell are superior to the originals.  If one is able to somehow wreck this stuff, *'they could tear the horn off an anvil' * as my Dad use to say!!


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## GO!!! (28 Aug 2005)

LF(CMO) said:
			
		

> If one is able to somehow wreck this stuff, *'they could tear the horn off an anvil' * as my Dad use to say!!



I've been known to hit the gym before bear 'wrasslin once or twice <spits tobacco, adjusts self>


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## beavers4 (9 Sep 2005)

hey there, regarding the 64 pattern jump frame.
I believe Beavers surplus in Toronto will have these frames on hand to purchase
End of September early part of October.

regards
Jamie


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## Hunter (9 Sep 2005)

Does anyone here own a CADPAT version of the 64-pattern ruck from Canadian Peacekeeper?


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## Bomber (9 Sep 2005)

Bomber for Life has one, seems more than impressed with it.


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## theoldyoungguy (9 Sep 2005)

everyone that ive talked to that owns a 64 ruck loves it. i havent heard one negative comment about it. but myself, im not above spending money on gucci kit, but i use the small pack system, when u put all the puches on the small pack it can easily be used as a 64 ruck, and i personally find it more comfortable than the 82 pattern ruck.


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## MCpl Burtoo (9 Sep 2005)

I have had my 64 pattern ruck for 12 yrs and love it.  I have replaced the bag a few times and even the frame. My latest bag I got from a Mat Tech buddy who makes them in CADPAT. Now the only problem I have is I cannot wear it for the BFT.....in an O grp last week, we got passed on that the  Bde RSM (1CMBG) has ordered that" only 82 pattern rucks for the BFT from now on"! :crybaby: Let's hope that he leaves that chair prior to my next BFT!


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## beavers4 (10 Sep 2005)

I haven't seen anyrucks in the cadpat design yet, but I'm sure they will be out soon.
You can check the surplus stores in your area, sometimes they come accross with some interesting pieces from time to time. :dontpanic:


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## QOR (11 Sep 2005)

There is a surplus store located in Toronto, I believe it is called Beavers surplus, you can
try them. I know they have the 64 pattern ruck frame.They seem to have a good supply of the good stuff !!

Regards


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## KLAVER (11 Sep 2005)

is it possible to attach the 82 yoke assemble to the 64 frame?


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## D-n-A (11 Sep 2005)

The '64 pattern bags the surplus store in West Ed Mall aren't that great IMO, since the mainbag is pretty small, an can't hold a lot. 

Unless you do a lot of modifications to the '82 bag, you won't be able to mount it anywhere but on top on the frame on the '64 frame.

And yes, you can attach all the '82 patt parts to the '64 frame, although the lowerback pad needs some modification to fit.

Dropzone and Canadian Peacekeeper both make '64 bags, yokes, etc.


Instructions on putting the US lightweight ruck(same as the '64 ruck) together.
http://www.thevietnam-database.co.uk/HowtoRuck/Attaching.htm


Here's a pic of my ruck with the '64 frame an '82 bag, yoke and CP '64 lowerback/hip pad.


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## KLAVER (11 Sep 2005)

thanks guys my question was answered but is it possible to attach the kidney pad from the 82 yoke assemble on the 64 frame?


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## D-n-A (11 Sep 2005)

Brendo_51 said:
			
		

> thanks guys my question was answered but is it possible to attach the kidney pad from the 82 yoke assemble on the 64 frame?



With modification yes. The straps on the '82 lowerback/kidney pad are to short to wrap around the '64 frame, so you have to lengthen them.


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## KevinB (11 Sep 2005)

Other option is to stitch the pad to the ruck frame with paracord by punchign eyelettes thru the pad.


 Many sources make versions of the new issue jump bag.  

The PPCLI kitshop has bags in CADPAT as well (done by DropZone)


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## DannyBoy (12 Sep 2005)

Is it possible to get the 64 pattern rucksack issued without going on a jump course, just from the clothing stores?


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## KevinB (12 Sep 2005)

NO

 Jump Rucks are issued by the CQ's of Jump Units.

 LNNA
I'll give you a hint - it end with Needs Not Apply   ;D


BTW - Thanks for starting your own topic when a topic on 64 Pattern rucks is three lines below.  :


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## GO!!! (12 Sep 2005)

Brendo_51 said:
			
		

> thanks guys my question was answered but is it possible to attach the kidney pad from the 82 yoke assemble on the 64 frame?



Yes it is, and without lengthening anything. You just need to put some elbow grease into it, or have a friend help you. Nothing needs to be lengthened. Just pull really hard.


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## TCBF (12 Sep 2005)

Now if the '64 pattern ruck thread' gets merged with the 'my girlfriend pointed at me and laughed' thread things could turn tragic.

Tom


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## GO!!! (12 Sep 2005)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Yes it is, and without lengthening anything. You just need to put some elbow grease into it, or have a friend help you. Nothing needs to be lengthened. Just pull really hard.



Looking at it after it is posted, this quote could have a plethora of amusing applications...


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## KLAVER (13 Sep 2005)

lol hahahahahhaha


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## kyleg (13 Sep 2005)

Wow, I really shouldn't have read that in class, I could barely contain my laughter. No my prof thinks I'm crazy for liking calculus so much


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## armyvern (18 Sep 2005)

No, the 84 pattern ruck is not still available for really small people although I get chits from the MIR all the time telling me to issue it to someone or another here at Clothing Stores. We refer them to our local Army surplus outlet and tell them to see the MIR for re-imbursement of their money. The only 84 pattern rucks (jump rucks) are now held and controlled by CPC in Trenton as only jumpers are entitled... they distribute to the jump Coys out there. The only little people who still have them are those who managed to get them before they became obsolete for the rest of us. 
I still have use of one (and not because I work at Clothing) because niner domestic (hee hee hee he'll love that) served with 3Cdo from 85-95 and CPC from 97-03, and never did exchange for the "new" one...soon to be old one. One of my Cpls here at clothing has the 84 frame with the new bag on it. His sleeping bag is mounted on top. No gun tape was involved but we did have to scive mountains of 550 cord from the RCR to accomplish this. He just wore it for the 13K and thought it was great...so it can be done...


----------



## TCBF (18 Sep 2005)

Now, to be a bit of a nay-sayer, I hated carrying the C2 (64) Ruck.  With heavy loads, it dug the bottom bar into the rear of the hip bones of us skinny guys. I think the 82 is a much better ruck to carry, but the 64 is a better ruck to live out of.  Mainly because it doesn't fall over and dump your gotch in the snow. 

The C2 stayed as a jump ruck for obvious reasons. besides, we could - and did - jump with our SMGs tied to the ruck frame .

Most of the people who love the C2/64 don't love it as OEM, but after they have tricked it out with after mkt acc, including a lot of 82 parts, in some cases.

Tom


----------



## primer (18 Sep 2005)

I own a 64 Patten Ruck for the past 20 years. When the 82s came out I put the bag and straps on the 64 frame as soon as found one as a cadet. Lots of trials and errors at first and it still works great for all these years 

PSSSST

I know for a fact that 1 Cadet Training Centers in ON have 64 Patt Rucks (NEW) and lots of them. The supply techs treat them like they are gold knowing that some people will borrow parts from them to fix their own.


----------



## QOR (27 Sep 2005)

Regarding the 64 pattern ruck frame,
I have been told that Beavers Surplus exchange on Dufferin Street in Toronto will
soon have these for sale. Not sure of the price but these will be brand new. My guess is that you will see them mid to end October. I have 1 pre ordered so when they come in I won't have to be told they are all sold out. Give them a call and place an order. I have also been told that if you order ex amount the price will be less.
   Cheers !!


----------



## GO!!! (7 Oct 2005)

The 64 pattern ruck won't be a concern in the near future though, as the last few are cycling through the system right now.

As they are broken, they are going to be replaced by the US ALICE packs, for those of us entitled to have them issued.

So stock up now!


----------



## Matt_Fisher (7 Oct 2005)

I'm not going to give any details other than that there is a really shiny piece of kit in the pipeline for those who use the 64 and it's not being done by CTS.


----------



## Black Watch (8 Oct 2005)

can't wait for that new stuff to come


----------



## paracowboy (8 Oct 2005)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> I'm not going to give any details other than that there is a really shiny piece of kit in the pipeline for those who use the 64 and it's not being done by CTS.


spill it! Give!


----------



## kyleg (9 Oct 2005)

Pipeline for whom? What is it?! It's 3 am, and I WAS planning on going to sleep, but now I just might stay up clicking refresh until you tell us ;D


----------



## Matt_Fisher (9 Oct 2005)

Patience grasshopper, patience.


----------



## GK .Dundas (10 Oct 2005)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> Patience grasshopper, patience.


  You really are enjoying this ,are'nt you?


----------



## kyleg (10 Oct 2005)

:crybaby: But I wanna know NOW!!


----------



## Matt_Fisher (10 Oct 2005)

More details to follow in early the November timeframe.  Certainly alot faster than CTS timeline for fielding the new ruck.   ;D


----------



## Infanteer (10 Oct 2005)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> More details to follow in early the November timeframe.   Certainly alot faster than CTS timeline for fielding the new ruck.     ;D



I've seen it - it's slick.... :warstory:


----------



## kyleg (10 Oct 2005)

You guys really are getting a kick out of this aren't you  

Who will this shiny piece of kit be issued to?


----------



## armyvern (10 Oct 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> Who will this shiny piece of kit be issued to?



Us Clothing Stores Supply Techs are keeping them all to ourselves!!  ;D


----------



## D-n-A (10 Oct 2005)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> Patience grasshopper, patience.



Don't be such a tease, come on...


----------



## Infanteer (10 Oct 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> You guys really are getting a kick out of this aren't you
> 
> Who will this shiny piece of kit be issued to?



Whoever wants to buy it - it will be very indiscreet though, so it may satisfy the RSM better than the Kifaru.


----------



## kyleg (11 Oct 2005)

I don't get it. It'll be made available through clothing stores, but we have to buy it?


----------



## Infanteer (11 Oct 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> I don't get it. It'll be made available through clothing stores, but we have to buy it?



You made the assumption that it would be available in clothing stores; nobody said that.  AFAIK, this is a private venture.


----------



## kyleg (11 Oct 2005)

I made that assumption based on armyvern's post. So what is it?


----------



## armyvern (12 Oct 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> I made that assumption based on armyvern's post. So what is it?



I don't have a clue what this shiny piece of kit will be but my husband will want one!! The joke in my response was that I am a Supply Tech and you should know that we never give anything out to the troops, unless under the threat of torture!! I'm slamming my own trade here!! Laugh!!


----------



## kyleg (12 Oct 2005)

*nervous tittery laughter*


----------



## armyvern (12 Oct 2005)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> *nervous tittery laughter*



Thanks. That's much better. Now I can relax again.

 ;D


----------



## sdimock (11 Jan 2006)

So did I miss a post or two?

What's the shiny piece of kit for the 64?


----------



## kyleg (12 Jan 2006)

No, I don't think you missed anything, they're still holding out on us *shakes fist*


----------



## sdimock (12 Jan 2006)

Ok.

I'm breaking down and ordering a complete setup.

http://www.whitespace-solutions.net/pages/12/index.htm

Chimo


----------



## GO!!! (12 Jan 2006)

OK, we just had a guy come from DLR, (posting) and when asked about the new or interim ruck for the jump companies, he said it was to be the US ALICE pack, which have started to show up, with a new jump ruck "in the future"

Is this what you were holding out on us with?


----------



## Matt_Fisher (12 Jan 2006)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> OK, we just had a guy come from DLR, (posting) and when asked about the new or interim ruck for the jump companies, he said it was to be the US ALICE pack, which have started to show up, with a new jump ruck "in the future"
> 
> Is this what you were holding out on us with?



This was definitely NOT the 'shiney thing' that I was holding out on you guys.  As Mr. T would say: "I pity the fool who has to use the ALICE pack".
If anybody's interested in what the 'shiney thing' is, pm me.


----------



## Arctic Acorn (13 Jan 2006)

Does this have anything to do you being a "DND Licensed CADPAT Aftermarket Kit Manufacturer", perchance? 

 :dontpanic:


----------



## Matt_Fisher (13 Jan 2006)

As I mentioned earlier, PM me for details.   8)


----------



## noneck (13 Jan 2006)

I e-mailed Matt and it was worth it, the "shiny thing" looks very promising. 

Noneck


----------



## kyleg (14 Jan 2006)

Same here, and WOW. Sounds very cool 

Cheers,
Pinky


----------



## Jarnhamar (20 Jan 2006)

Is there anywhere I can get shoulder straps and/or a wasit belt for a 64 pattern ruck? (other than CP)
It doesn't even have to be the normal set of straps. Im looking at getting padded shoulderstraps and the waist belt.
I checked at places like MEC but they don't sell just straps.


----------



## kyleg (21 Jan 2006)

Check out this site for straps and new 64 pat bags:
http://whitespace-solutions.net/pages/11/index.htm

Cheers,
Pinky


----------



## Jarnhamar (22 Jan 2006)

Thats perfect! Thank you very much.


----------



## scottyeH? (1 Feb 2006)

That is a sexy ruck. 

Just graduating from BMQ tommorrow and my Mcpl from 3ppcli told me to look into buying one because I'm a shorter build.

Anyone know if you would be able to purchase a 64pattern ruck for SQ/battleschool?

or would I have to wait to I get to my Unit?

Thanks.


----------



## MikeL (4 Feb 2006)

ScottyeH, just a guess but
you will probably have to use the '82 ruck just like everyone else, unless you can get a chit saying you need the '64.


----------



## kyleg (4 Feb 2006)

You might also try buying just the 64 frame for starters and gerry-rigging your 82 pattern bag to it (I've done it, it's really not that hard). You're much less likely to attract attention that way, and you still the the benefit of having a 64 pattern frame (you can always get the 64 pattern bag once you finish your courses). But like everyone will tell you, it really depends on your course staff.

Cheers,
Pinky


----------



## Jarnhamar (4 Feb 2006)

> Check out this site for straps and new 64 pat bags:
> http://whitespace-solutions.net/pages/11/index.htm



Guys if your looking for a 64 pattern ruck check this guy out.
I just ordered new straps and their amazing. $60 got me padded shoulder straps, back rest and a very padded kidney belt.  Very good quality and super helpful.  

You can even get the back and parts in cadpat.


----------



## MikeL (5 Feb 2006)

Pte.Pinky said:
			
		

> You might also try buying just the 64 frame for starters and gerry-rigging your 82 pattern bag to it (I've done it, it's really not that hard). You're much less likely to attract attention that way, and you still the the benefit of having a 64 pattern frame (you can always get the 64 pattern bag once you finish your courses). But like everyone will tell you, it really depends on your course staff.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pinky



Yea, thats great untill a kit inspection, etc.  Don't try to hide anything from the staff; ask the staff if you can use the frame, an go from there. If you have a lot of trouble with the '82 an its causing you pain/injury, etc see a medic an you might get a chit.


----------



## genesis98 (13 Mar 2006)

Part 1 here has the the 64 pattern assembly and it is a canadian document.
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/300-002/B-GL-323/003/FP-001/B-GL-323-003-FP-001.pdf


----------



## thatoldfool (12 Apr 2006)

Having read this thread numerous times, as well other, 64-pack, threads, a few questions still remain.

1. It's not clear to me from the pictures, nor from the description, whether or not the Drop-Zone shoulder straps have release buckles like the CP gear ones do. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

2. Has anyone tried *both* the old 64 pack frame, and the ALICE pack frame? From the frames that I've checked out at differing Army Surplus stores, the old, 64 pack frames seem superior in their construction, whereas the ALICE packs seem to "make sense" with their "x" pattern of frame support. I am more inclined towards the 64 pack frame, but I'm eager to hear any specific comparisons/comments.

3. Are there any online places to by "true" 64 pack frames? Most places that I've found don't distinguish between the ALICE pack and the 64 Pack frame. So far, the only place that seems to have them is this: http://www.armyissue.com/ . However, despite emailing them in regards to shipping, no one has replied to me, nor do I see any "order" button that I can use. Has anyone bought from that company, or know where a site selling true 64 pack frames can be found?

4. Has anyone here actually bought the drop zone 64 pack and accessories? I know most people here, for likely good reason, don't like the CP Gear kit. However, is the price difference ($700 CAD for a fully outfitted DZ pack and frame, vs. ~$250 for CP Gear + frame) really justifiable? Furthermore, in regards to the DZ pack, what set of modular packs have proven most handy in the field? Im in the infantry reserve, with aspirations to go abroad, and while I hope to use this pack for civilian purposes, I would also like to buy something that could hold up under the rigours of infantry life/training.

Much thanks,

Cincinnatus  :warstory:


----------



## chrisf (12 Apr 2006)

A thought...

Finish BMQ, then invest in a new pack?


----------



## thatoldfool (12 Apr 2006)

I'm actually not planning on buying it, or anything, anytime soon, and likely any purchase would be made in the fall when I have some more money saved. However, as I am avid camper and hiker, and am curiouse about such things, I was, and still am interested in the above information. Furthermore, as I am now involved with the reserve, i thought it would be practical to ask about the usefulness of such kit in the forces.

Cheers,

-Cincinnatus


----------



## chrisf (12 Apr 2006)

Cincinnatus said:
			
		

> 3. Are there any online places to by "true" 64 pack frames? Most places that I've found don't distinguish between the ALICE pack and the 64 Pack frame. So far, the only place that seems to have them is this: http://www.armyissue.com/ . However, despite emailing them in regards to shipping, no one has replied to me, nor do I see any "order" button that I can use. Has anyone bought from that company, or know where a site selling true 64 pack frames can be found?



Not sure what you mean by "true" 64 pack frames vs ALICE pack frames... they are distinct from each other (Though supposedly a 64 pattern pack will fit on an ALICE frame or maybe it's vice versa, can't remember exactly). 

If you're looking for a 64 pattern frame though, e-bay is often your best bet.


----------



## Lerch (12 Apr 2006)

Cincinnatus said:
			
		

> 4. Has anyone here actually bought the drop zone 64 pack and accessories? I know most people here, for likely good reason, don't like the CP Gear kit. However, is the price difference ($700 CAD for a fully outfitted DZ pack and frame, vs. ~$250 for CP Gear + frame) really justifiable? Furthermore, in regards to the DZ pack, what set of modular packs have proven most handy in the field? Im in the infantry reserve, with aspirations to go abroad, and while I hope to use this pack for civilian purposes, I would also like to buy something that could hold up under the rigours of infantry life/training.


If you don't like CPGear, but you don't want to shell out $700, and you want a good '64 pack, go to http://whitespace-solutions.net/pages/11/index.htm and buy theirs. I did it. Cost me $218 shipped and I got the whole deal (including '64 frame and A7A valice straps!). 
The bag is A1-quality with semi-proofed CADPAT cordura. It has 5 pockets on the outside, each is about the standard mess-tin size. The flap has a velcro-accessed pocket underneath. The bag itself is strapped tightly and zap-strapped for security to the frame. The waist belt and shoulder pads are nicely padded and very wide for comfort. 
I bought a rucksack cover from CPGear to go along with it and damn does it all look good!


----------



## chriscalow (13 Apr 2006)

Lerch said:
			
		

> If you don't like CPGear, but you don't want to shell out $700, and you want a good '64 pack, go to http://whitespace-solutions.net/pages/11/index.htm and buy theirs. I did it. Cost me $218 shipped and I got the whole deal (including '64 frame and A7A valice straps!).
> The bag is A1-quality with semi-proofed CADPAT cordura. It has 5 pockets on the outside, each is about the standard mess-tin size. The flap has a velcro-accessed pocket underneath. The bag itself is strapped tightly and zap-strapped for security to the frame. The waist belt and shoulder pads are nicely padded and very wide for comfort.
> I bought a rucksack cover from CPGear to go along with it and damn does it all look good!



The site is down, are they coming back?  I wanted to look into one of those.  Thanks


----------



## Lerch (14 Apr 2006)

They'll be coming back, don't worry. You may be able to reach the gentleman at this email;
kitguru@rogers.com

Anyways, here's pictures of my ruck for those interested.
*The front and main bag* note the addition of two more pouches to the main bag.





*The back and shoulder straps* these are some beefy straps.




The valice straps made from A7A cargo straps!


----------



## George Wallace (14 Apr 2006)

BIG QUESTION:   Where are you getting the A7A Straps?

They are next to impossible to get in the system.


----------



## DropZone (14 Apr 2006)

Gentlemen,

Regarding the Alice / 64 frame. The 64 frame is actually a U.S. Army frame developed and adopted by our southern neighbors in 61 and officially abandoned in 67. It was designed for winter warfare to prevent sweat and overheating of the soldiers. The theory at the time was..being an "open" frame the sweat would evaporate and the soldier would stay drier and warmer. 

The 64 was pressed into service in Vietnam where its weaknesses became legendary, forcing the ALICE frame to replace it in 67. The ALICE frame designers were given design parameters that insisted that  existing textile components interchange as there were thousands of pieces still in the system. The ALICE frame is essentially a beefed up 64. Its younger brother if you will. Given the choice between a used issue 64 (or an unused one for that matter) and an issue ALICE, buy the ALICE. It is stronger. 

Any clown that claims the 64 is more comfortable that an ALICE is an idiot as the mounting dimensions are near identical ... so don't listen to these "experts".

Modular? Modular packs allow the_ user_ to select the pockets and to arrange the pockets as they see fit..not what the "designer" thinks is ideal. If you think the designer knows more about what _you are_ packing... then go with the designers idea. 

Unfortunately he will not be there with you to pack it ;D  

With the current MOLLE/PALS system, properly made, the system is stronger than a "sewn on pocket". Remember, a "sewn on pocket" is only held on by stitching around its perimeter. A MOLLE/PALS pocket has stitch points all over its footprint, spreading the load over a larger area, hence more strength.

How many 64 packs does Drop Zone sell? We have 15 people working here and four independent sales reps...so some one is buying them along with alot of our other products. We do production runs of 50 at a time and do at _least _ four runs a year. 

Expense? One point to illustrate why we charge more: Unlike the photo's shown above, we use mil-spec webbing to run through our nylon buckles, not herring bone seam binding tape. Notice the faint line down the middle of the tape. This is a special weave that allows the sewing machine operator to fold the tape over an exposed fabric edge. This tape will eventually exhibit a tendency to "rollover" or "fold" when running through buckles at its _designed in _ fold line! Very frustrating when you are in a hurry to get moving!

While the binding tape shown in the photos, to the builders credit, looks to be mil-spec tape, it will fuzz up and fray when run repeatedly through buckles. This binding tape has no resin to reduce fraying. Did the builder get a deal on this stuff? Hell I do not know his motivation for using it, but I do know it is wrong item for that application.

Oh, but what the hell.....its a great deal :

Yes, there is no doubt, compared to garage and basement operators Drop Zone Tactical products are expensive, but at least _we_ know what materials should be used for what applications. 

My staff and myself rest easy knowing that our customers are the ultimate beneficiaries of this knowledge.

Right now we are getting "rush" orders for chest rigs, pouches, and packs, to replace failing "bargain" brand gear the lads bought before deployment to the combat zone. Hardly a day goes buy when a soldier on leave doesn't come in to our showroom with a shopping list for him and his buddies........

I guess the old adage still holds true......you get exactly what you pay for.

Kindest Regards

Brian Kroon

President
Drop Zone Tactical division of
Spike Camp Wilderness Safety Supply Ltd.


----------



## riggermade (14 Apr 2006)

Just a note about the webbing... I have made a couple of hundred sets of these pads although this isn't one of mine and there has never been a complaint regardless of what was said above.  There has been no complaints with this set of padding and there are still people ordering it


----------



## GO!!! (15 Apr 2006)

riggermade,

I think you and brian are selling to different markets.

You make an adequate product for your customers (sea cadets, occasional hikers) and Brian makes his for professionals who use it every day.

I would not compare the two, having owned a variety of DZ products, and knowing that spike camp/drop zone has a client list that proves it.


----------



## riggermade (15 Apr 2006)

Go

How would you know who I make my stuff for.

For your information I started making this for the RCR and there is some of them at evry unit here in Petawawa and I can ensure you it is quality stuff as the customers I have seem to think so

If you are a fan of his stuff that is fine but don't insinuate the quality of my work is inferior


----------



## Lerch (16 Apr 2006)

Personally, I've lots of kit with 'rollover' tape straps and webbing. None have run into any problems. I love it because it's alot easier to pull tight. If it starts to 'fuzz' I just grab a lighter and solve the problem.

I'll complain when something goes wrong that I can't fix. Till then


----------



## George Wallace (16 Apr 2006)

I'm still wondering where you are getting your A7A Straps ?


----------



## Fishbone Jones (16 Apr 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> I'm still wondering where you are getting your A7A Straps ?



A roll of web, a box of buckles and a sewing machine? As with many things in the army, the finished item may be in short supply, but the components are plentiful and readily available through the system. Just gotta take time to build them.


----------



## MikeL (17 Apr 2006)

I got a bunch of A7A straps from a surplus store in Edmonton.


Dropzone, AFAIK ALICE did not come into service in the US Army till 1974, during the Vietnam War most units used the Light Weight Rucksack ( http://mooremilitaria.com/Ruck%20Front.JPG ), some troops picked up ARVN Rucks though. Other units like the Ranger Companies got Tropical Rucksacks when they came out( http://mooremilitaria.com/Tropical%201.JPG ) which kinda look like a medium ALICE pack, but aren't the same an used a X frame.


----------



## DropZone (17 Apr 2006)

MikeL

Your absolutely right. The ALICE frame was not general issue until 1974. But the ALICE program was started in 1967, with the switch from canvas to nylon. The "64" was used in Viet Nam up to '73 due to a pack frame shortage, hence the use of the ARVN "tropical frame" that you described was also used

I reference pages 159 through 173 of Shelby Stanton's excellent book U.S. Army Uniforms of the Vietnam War. Published by Stackpole Books 1989,1992. There are great photos and technical drawings of these packs in Stantons book.

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon


----------



## Lerch (19 Apr 2006)

Piper said:
			
		

> Any idea when said site will be back up?
> 
> I need a new pack for camping/hiking, and 218$ sounds pretty good to me (they don't pay me THAT much).


Buzz kitguru@rogers.com he's the bloke who hooked me up. He'll take paypal which is nice.


----------



## thatoldfool (19 Apr 2006)

I just found a scan of the old, US Army, ALICE pack, manual, and post it here for your reference:

http://www.georgia-outfitters.com/_alice/alicemanual.htm

Hope someone finds it useful, or at least interesting.

Cheers,

-Cincinnatus


----------



## thatoldfool (19 Apr 2006)

Good evening all,

One more request for all of you with the 64 pack--as the pictures posted last year no longer show properly, could someone post (again) their 64 setup? I'm curious specifically as to one's choice in modular pouches, and in the distant future, am wondering whether to get the "default" drop zone set of 2 bren pouches, and the bertha butt pack, or some other combo. Once again, yes, I am new to the kit demands of the military, and yes, I will finish my basic courses before even dreaming of getting some sort of rig together. Nonetheless, I am a curious sort, and would like to hear what others have done with their rucks.

Long live the merged 64 pattern thread! ; :warstory:

-Cincinnatus


----------



## spartan308 (20 Apr 2006)

I am no longer doing the kit stuff. I was testing the water business wise and did not like it. I will try and find a new contact for you from the guys who makes the stuff.  I am sure riggermade can help you as well.

kitguru@rogers.com


----------



## thatoldfool (21 Nov 2006)

Just a heads up to all:

CPGear is offering what seem to be *original* 64-pack (jump-ruck) frames for the very reasonable price of $45. No army surplus I've been to has had a better price, and more often than not, the listed price is higher. Here's the link:

http://www.cpgear.com/default.asp?mn=1.19.56&f=pd&pid=485

Hope this is useful...


----------



## PhilB (21 Nov 2006)

I posted this in another thread but I will re-post it in this thread (mods if this isn't correct move and/or delete as you see fit). 

the problem I have with any Alice/64 based system is the suspension. A bag is a bag as long as it is well made but the suspension is what will kill you. Most guys that I know purchase an upgraded suspension be it a combo of eagle or TT straps, or Dropzone kit and some sort of waist belt. While this system is better than using the issue straps and kidney pad from the 82 ruck I think that it is still lacking. 

External frame rucks as the way to go for the military I think because it allows you to easily carry odd shaped items (Jerry's, ammo, mortar or 84 bombs etc) however no matter what suspension you add it is not comparable to the suspension on an internal frame ruck. This is because of the waist belt. As you are attaching a waist belt to a rigid ruck frame it is little more than a pad. The belts do not have the ability to transfer significant weight from your shoulders to your hips, yes they improve the comfort of the ruck but not the ergonomics.

Lets consider the average price for a set up, minus the bag, valice, and A7a straps.

From dropzone you are looking at 69.99 for Cadpat shoulder straps and 89.99 for a cadpat waist belt for a total off $159.98. Now add on approx $50 dollars for an Alice or 64 frame and your total is now at $209.98. This is not including a back pad. Add on a back pad from CP Gear for $20 and your grand total without a bag or A7A straps is $229.98.

The system that I went with is made by an American company called www.mysteryranch.com
It is a frame based on the Alice frame but made out of highimpact carbon fiber called the NICE frame. The benefits of having a carbon fiber frame is that the frame flexes slightly. When wearing it if you flex your shoulders on the march there is give, the frame flexes with you and makes it much more comfortable. It is jumpable (according to the company) and extremely strong. I haven't done any specific strength tests but in my opinion it is a more solid system. The cross bars on the frame are in the same posn as a 64/Alice pack and are sheathed in nylon for additionally durability. The combination of the cross bars and all of the webbing attachment points on then frame made it easier to lash things to the frame than a 64/Alice. 

Equally important to the strength, flex, and lashability is the comfort. It has an integrated suspension system, that in essence allows you the utility of an external frame ruck with the comfort of an internal frame suspension. The waist belt and lumbar pad actually transfer weight from your shoulders to your hips. The yoke is backed with a rigid piece of plastic which prevents the straps from slipping off your shoulders, or conversely, from digging into your neck. Another benefit is that the yoke is completely adjustable up or down, a feature that you cannot have on a 64/Alice system. Cost wise it may be prohibitive to some as it is $250 American, but when compared side by side with setting up a decent aftermarket 64 setup it is definitely in the price range. For the superior properties of this system I am willing to pay the 30 or 40 dollars more (depending on exchange rate). This company is a pleasure to deal with, the frames are made to order and I received mine within a week. Although it may not be apparent in the pictures on their website it fits the 64 with no issues. Here are some pictures of my ruck







As you can see it is a beefy suspension system that is integrated into the frame. You can also see that it is not just a waist belt but a lumbar pad and wrap around hip belt. You can also see the curve of the shoulder straps.






Here is a side view.

I hope this helps guys, if you want more pictures let me know and I will try and take them as quick as I can. I used this system on my PLQ and also when I deployed with no issues. All in all despite the slight price increase over a traditional system I would highly recommend it.


----------



## spr_sldr (9 Nov 2007)

I was just wondering what everyone thought was a better ruck?
Ive used both and personally like the 64 Jump ruck better but some people say the issue one is fine.
Personally I find it throws my back out if anything is added onto it. ( I recently had a 522 strapped to it for a recce exercise in meaford.)
Thoughts?
And is there a better ruck out there?
With our military becoming more mechanized every day could Patrol packs be the ruck of the future?


----------



## medaid (10 Nov 2007)

Mallard,

    Did you actually read this thread man? This is all about the 64 Pattern. If you did a search you'll find that comparison between the two rucks have been donw numerous times. Rucks, like boots, are a matter of personal opinion, and sure there are better rucks out there. My question to you is, do you think you'll be allowed to wear it? The 64 is a tried tested, and true external ruck that many RSMs have approved for wear, and that many soldiers believe in it's durability and niceness. However, it definitely isn't the be all and end all ruck. It is a nice one, better then the current issued one. I switched over to a 64 in my second year and I have never looked back. My personal opinion.


----------



## thatoldfool (11 Dec 2007)

To add another review to this thread, and to ask for some direction:

I'm an infantry reservist currently attached with 2R22R for F0-1019. While still at my home unit, I decided to order the CP-Gear 64-Pack system, once I saw that the old frames were once again available. Having used it for about a year, here are my conclusions:

PADDING
Pros: The padding is excellent on this pack, and the back-pad is velcro attached, conceivably so that it can be taken and washed without tearing the whole ruck apart. No complaints here.
Cons: None, really--although some like the shoulder padding to be wider, I didn't find this to be too much of a problem.

STRAPS
Pros: Seem well made, and the standard things are all there--quick release for the pack, along with nice clipping, not sliding, locks. The A7 straps allow for easy in and out access of your valise and air matress, key especially on winter ex's.
Cons: I like a tight tight ruck, and I find that a) I can't tighten shoulder straps tight enough b) the back pouch, if overly full, doesn't close very gracefully and c) I find the A7 straps awkward. Having just gotten back from another march today, and *despite* tightening the straps as much as I could, upon return to batallion my valise and sleeping kit were falling out.

SIZE
Pros: As advertized, this ruck is bigger than the original one on which it was based. Furthermore, despite some people thinking to the contrary, it actually does fit just as much as the standard issue ruck.
Cons: The pack doesn't gracefull attach to the standard, jump-ruck, frame. Because of it's size, and no matter how high I try to mount it  on the frame (only so high is possible), if the bag is fully packed, it sags well below the bottom, to the point where I can feel it. This is my biggest problem with this `bigger` system. Having field tested it on ex, on marches in the bush, and on marches civi-side, this is it's most awkward feature. Some sort of support system needs to be implemented to lift up the base, wonder-bra-styles, because currently, my fully packed ruck looks like a beer-belly that's falling out of its owner's pants.

CONCLUSIONS
This is a decent ruck, but I feel that there could be more fine tuning to it. If the original pattern could be followed faithfully, I would gladly re-buy this pack from CP-Gear. However, as it stands, I'm now looking for a `classic` model with wich to replace the one that I have now. That being said:

1-Anyone interested in buying my Cadpat CP-Gear 64 pack, minus the frame, for $160, plus shipping?
2-Anyone interested in selling me their, or telling me where to find an, original, canadian, 64 pack?

Cheers,

-Cin


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## MikeL (11 Dec 2007)

I had no problems with the bag sagging low, I just wrapped A7A straps around the entire ruck an that held it tight. Also, I wouldn't worry to much about buying a new ruck for tour since its lookin like all Infantry Battalions deploying get the new ruck(least my BN did).


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## thatoldfool (11 Dec 2007)

I thought about rigging it like that, but didn't like how that forced me to loosen the straps to get into the ruck. If no one is interested in buying my old one, I might try a few more complicated mods, though...

As to bringing it on tour--not interested in it for that, really--I just want to have a comfortable ruck here on base for ourmarches and ex's, as well as for my own hiking, civi side. Am thinking about just rigging the issued ruck to the fram and putting the valise on top, like I see some guys doing, but we'll see..

Cheers,

-Cin


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## Mr. St-Cyr (19 Dec 2007)

A couple of A7A straps can really do wonders to your 64


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## Kempa_Westie (18 Feb 2008)

For the first time since i bought my 64 pattern(thank you riggermade!), i actually used it in a very physical and winter-based exercise. My bag has five pockets on the main bag, which i stuffed with my rations for the weekend(if it was a longer ex i could have easily store more inside the main bag or valise). To reply to your post, Cincinnatus, it's not hard getting into your main bag when your A7 straps are wrapped around the whole ruck, you simply have to just loosen the straps a little and all it takes is a little weaselling of the hand to get into the ruck to get what you want. I found that i could get things out of my ruck much faster than anyone else in the section. 

On a whole other note, on a winter ex, and depending on how MUCH of a winter ex it is(IE, cold-wise), people may be stripping off and putting on layers of clothing all the time. I found that i didn't really need to, but if i did, it was easy enough to have my goretex jacket squeezed in under the valice or just bungeed on top of my ruck for easy grabbing. I liked that during our long marches.
rushing through the tent-up/tent-down routine was also very nice with the 64. Loosen up the A7's nice and fast, and whip that valise into the tent, while the older rucks take a little bit more ******* with. Not to mention i didn't have those annoying plastic pieces that like to break and freeze in cold conditions. 

All in all, i had my first real experience with my beloved 64. I would have liked a molle system on the main bag instead of pockets, and i may invest in a bag like that in the future. Other then that, the shoulder straps are a little uncomfortable, but they are better than the old straps, that's for sure. As for the kidney pads and back pad, the ones riggermade supplied to me are perfect. They aren't even close to as think as the once CP gear supplies, and they do me just fine. Oh, and as for the valise slipping out, as some people are complaining about, i have a valise with three pockets sewn onto it(thanks again, riggermade!) and it helps A LOT with that slippage. So, some of you may want to look into that


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## medaid (18 Feb 2008)

WestieWarrior said:
			
		

> I would have liked a molle system on the main bag instead of pockets...



Did you take a look at the packs we had made for the Cambrian team? Several pers from your Regt have them.


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## Fishbone Jones (18 Feb 2008)

I have one of the rucks, and love it. I need a picture and price for that valise.


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## Kempa_Westie (18 Feb 2008)

MedTech- I DID see them. They looked pretty sexy to me. How much do they run for? Or are they special order bags? I asked one of our guys and i think he said they were just made especially for the Cambrian.
Recceguy- If my camera wasn't crushed on course i would take a picture for you, lol. But just message riggermade and he should be able to fill you in  And i believe the valice was $30, but don't quote me on that!


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## medaid (18 Feb 2008)

WestCoastWarrior said:
			
		

> MedTech- I DID see them. They looked pretty sexy to me. How much do they run for? Or are they special order bags? I asked one of our guys and i think he said they were just made especially for the Cambrian.



They were cheap for the patrol. Shoot me an e-mail at derek@icetactical.com and I'll get you a price


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## The_Falcon (18 Feb 2008)

And just when pray tell are you going to be posting some pics of the ICE 64 ruck?  You told me October


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## medaid (18 Feb 2008)

Hatchet Man said:
			
		

> And just when pray tell are you going to be posting some pics of the ICE 64 ruck?  You told me October




Hehehe, as soon as I can get them from my boss  :-[


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## CF_Lifer (18 Aug 2009)

Anyone know where to find a frame??
Wheelers is out...


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## armyvern (18 Aug 2009)

CF_Lifer said:
			
		

> Anyone know where to find a frame??
> Wheelers is out...



You could try these I guess:

http://www.dropzonetactical.com/backpacks/64alice.html

http://cgi.ebay.ca/US-military-ruck-sack-frame-w-woodland-shoulder-straps_W0QQitemZ380144398737QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item58825f3191&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

http://cgi.ebay.ca/US-Military-Issue-Alice-Pack-Ruck-Sack-Frame_W0QQitemZ370233775996QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5633a7177c&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

http://heroarmysurplus.com/product_info.php/name/CF%2064%20Pattern%20frame/products_id/2588


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## Lerch (25 Aug 2009)

If you're near Mississauga, check out Army Issue, he usually has one or two kickin' around.


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## riggermade (18 Sep 2009)

I have a line on frames...I'll have to see how much they are...as always 5 pocket bags and pads can be made


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## winds_13 (12 Sep 2012)

CF_Lifer said:
			
		

> Anyone know where to find a frame??
> Wheelers is out...



For all still interested, I bought my '64 frame online from "Beavers Surplus Exchange Ltd." in Toronto. They sell reproduction frames that are identical to the old issue '64 frames, except that the aluminum pieces are welded together instead of being riveted. I've used mine (with ruck parts from 'Warrior Gear'/Riggermade) several times in the last year, including for jumping, and it has worked great. IMHO, they're superior to 40-year old POS '64 frames that may fall apart at the rivets, which happens often enough.

http://www.beaversarmysurplus.com/products.php?category_id=41


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## fraserdw (12 Sep 2012)

Wheelers is in frames again.


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