# Going to 3 RCR on the 21st, Ordered a custom CADPAT Vest.............



## Pte Snow (11 Jun 2006)

Hi, I'm just finishing Battle school.   ;D  I have about three days of training left as it stands.. I'm pretty excited. Ive been wondering for a while about custom kit such as tac vests. I have been reading the various posts as well.  I purchased a custom cadpat tac vest. I'm thinking now i should have asked about this before buying. But does anyone know if I will have issues wearing this at battalion, specifically 3 RCR?


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## MikeM (11 Jun 2006)

Should have asked first, you'll probably take some flak if you show up on your first day with it. Just my opinion.


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## vonGarvin (11 Jun 2006)

You _probably_ will not be able to wear it at 3 RCR, but don't throw it out just yet.  You never know what could happen.


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## paracowboy (11 Jun 2006)

I think you just wasted a whole lot of money.


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## the 48th regulator (11 Jun 2006)

I will offer you $25..00 Canadian for it...shipping included.  I will pay via paypal.

dileas

tess


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## Yeoman (11 Jun 2006)

should have used that money to buy beer at the new guy party instead.
Greg


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## the 48th regulator (11 Jun 2006)

Yeoman said:
			
		

> should have used that money to buy beer at the new guy party instead.
> Greg



hehehe, that's why I offered 25 bucks, will get you a case of laker for the barracks entry fee...

dileas

tes


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## Armymedic (25 Jun 2006)

I guess he knows by now that he should have spent the money on beer...

Hows that vest look hanging in your closet collecting dust?


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## Trinity (25 Jun 2006)

1) take up airsoft

or 

2) sell on ebay

Don't let this mistake temper your enthusiam.  Stay pumped.. enjoy the ride!


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## GO!!! (25 Jun 2006)

Simple test.

Place new chest rig in your follow up kit, wait until first exercise.

Once you are well into said exercise, look around. If a great number of other troops accross the spectrum of ranks are wearing non issue rigs, it's a pretty good chance that you can too. By the same hat, if you see only issued kit, send me a pic of this thing and how much you want for it.

Just remember, it is always easier to ask forgiveness rather than permission.


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## Trinity (25 Jun 2006)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Just remember, it is always easier to ask forgiveness rather than permission.



Yeah, cause that works real well at a courts martial.  


Its a fun saying... not always correct!


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## GO!!! (25 Jun 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Yeah, cause that works real well at a courts martial.
> 
> 
> Its a fun saying... not always correct!



I've never heard of anyone tried at court martial for a dress violation.

Worst case scenario - he gets a sound jacking and is ordered back into the TV.

Best case - he gets to wear it.

Either way, question answered.


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## HItorMiss (25 Jun 2006)

GO he is coming to the "Anal" Regiment, such things as good kit get squashed with such answers as in my Regiment we will all look alike no matter is that kit is junk or not.

I love my Regiment but things need to change!


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## Armymedic (25 Jun 2006)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> Simple test.
> 
> Place new chest rig in your follow up kit, wait until first exercise.
> 
> ...



Here is a better idea...don't. You will not be allowed to wear it in 3 RCR.



			
				GO!!! said:
			
		

> Worst case scenario - he gets a sound jacking and is ordered back into the TV.



Or he get charged, and gets extra training and loses his weekends for a month...That has happened for a dress violation in the RCR.

I think if he reads this, he will figure out he will not be able to wear it at work. Heck, those "special" guys here are running around in the standard issued TVs...if they are not allowed off the shelf kit, do you think the guys in the Bns are?


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## GO!!! (25 Jun 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> I think if he reads this, he will figure out he will not be able to wear it at work. Heck, those "special" guys here are running around in the *standard issued TVs*...if they are not allowed off the shelf kit, do you think the guys *in the Bns are*?



You might want to look a bit closer - those TVs are.... modified.

Guess it depends which Bn.


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## Armymedic (25 Jun 2006)

GO!!! said:
			
		

> You might want to look a bit closer - those TVs are.... modified.
> 
> Guess it depends which Bn.



Guess again. and,
the Bns in Petawawa, where he works.

Is it such a hard concept for you to get your head around that somewhere in this army, soldiers (and senior ones at that) still equate good parade discipline like, standing up straight, being well turned out, and looking the same as everyone else, as signs of being a good soldier?


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jun 2006)

I have seen some of the kit the Ski Team use and although it was in CADPAT it was not the standard crap we use.  I will ask a few I know if they use the issued stuff not that you care but now that I think of it I am interested.

Looking the same is great.  I guess more important to look the same then to get your grenades out quicker or reload your mags cause you can only carry 5 loaded with out a lot of fuss.


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## Armymedic (26 Jun 2006)

Quagmire said:
			
		

> I have seen some of the kit the Ski Team use



Not the ski team...the farm team.


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## paracowboy (26 Jun 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Is it such a hard concept for you to get your head around that somewhere in this army, soldiers (and senior ones at that) still equate good parade discipline like, standing up straight, being well turned out, and looking the same as everyone else, as signs of being a good soldier?


ah, yes. The parade ground mentality that says you will use whatever garbage the army gives you, no matter how lousy it may be, because looking like a soldier is better than being effective as a soldier.

Haircuts mean battlefield efficiency. Properly shined boots means you can kill the enemy quicker. 


Anyway, New Guy, you can't wear your fancy kit in 3 Chicken. Sell it, and try to get some of your money back.


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## Fusaki (26 Jun 2006)

> Is it such a hard concept for you to get your head around that somewhere in this army, soldiers (and senior ones at that) still equate good parade discipline like, standing up straight, being well turned out, and *looking the same as everyone else, as signs of being a good soldier?*



I never understood this one.

Recently the argument was made to me that in a PSO it is imperative to look professional. If we're all dressed alike, then it gives a good impression of Canadians and supports our cause. But I don't buy that for a second. All the parade ground dress regulations in the world don't save you from bullets and IEDs, and as soon as guys start getting wacked because they can't draw their mags fast enough any bit of professionalism the locals thought we had just went out the window.

They talk about the "new way wars are won", "asymetirc warfare", and "the 3 block war". Really what alot of that stuff boils down to is the fact that the decisions a pte/cpl makes on the ground could have far-reaching consequences. When it comes to winning hearts and minds, a wrong move at the lowest levels could be a disaster. Its a big responsibility placed on the lowest rank levels.... but the army doesn't trust us to dress ourselves? I'm qualified to use all nasty sorts of ways to kill people, and I'm trusted to only use these skills legally. But I'm not qualified to look at a piece of kit and say "ya know what? That one works better. It's going to help me do my job because what was issued me was designed by some colonel-in-charge-of-pencils who's looking for a good vest for the PWT3".

Gimme a break.


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## vonGarvin (26 Jun 2006)

paracowboy said:
			
		

> Haircuts mean battlefield efficiency. Properly shined boots means you can kill the enemy quicker.


I disagree.  Haircuts and properly shined boots means (a) you respond to and comply with orders (b) you have pride in self and (c) you pay attention to detail.  After all, if you can't get them to cut their hair and shine their boots in garrison, how can you expect them to follow your direction in the heat of battle?


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## George Wallace (26 Jun 2006)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> I never understood this one.
> 
> Recently the argument was made to me that in a PSO it is imperative to look professional. If we're all dressed alike, then it gives a good impression of Canadians and supports our cause. But I don't buy that for a second. All the parade ground dress regulations in the world don't save you from bullets and IEDs, and as soon as guys start getting wacked because they can't draw their mags fast enough any bit of professionalism the locals thought we had just went out the window.
> 
> ...



Give you a break?  I don't know where to start on your little tirade.  Obviously you have no idea of what a uniform is, nor what uniformity entails.  There are a few things that I disagree with in this discussion and a few things that I agree with, but your little tirade takes the cake.  If we were to be allowed to dress completely as we pleased, then we wouldn't be "uniform" nor easily identifiable on the battlefield.  Wouldn't it be great to have to tell a whole bunch of families that their child who was serving overseas as a member of the CF was killed because (s)he was wearing something not easily identifiable as CF and was shot by mistake.  "Oops! I thought you were Taliban!"  "Sorry!"  Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it.  

Should Mortarmen wear the same TV as Infanteers?   Should Armd Crewmen wear the same TV as Infanteers?  No, not really, but they must be standardized within their own organizations.  If everyone bought their own, then we would have a real problem.  We'll start looking like our enemy, who has no QM and must buy or make his own.  Not being uniform will cause needless deaths.  All the technology in the world will not change that.


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## GAP (26 Jun 2006)

von Garvin said:
			
		

> I disagree.  Haircuts and properly shined boots means (a) you respond to and comply with orders (b) you have pride in self and (c) you pay attention to detail.  After all, if you can't get them to cut their hair and shine their boots in garrison, how can you expect them to follow your direction in the heat of battle?



I couldn't have worded it better. +1


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## HItorMiss (26 Jun 2006)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> Should Mortarmen wear the same TV as Infanteers?   Should Armd Crewmen wear the same TV as Infanteers?  No, not really, but they must be standardized within their own organizations.  If everyone bought their own, then we would have a real problem.  We'll start looking like our enemy, who has no QM and must buy or make his own.  Not being uniform will cause needless deaths.  All the technology in the world will not change that.



Sorry GW couldn't disagree more and I sure the Brits and the PPCLI have proved it over and over again, I don;t care who makes it all I care about is it CADPAT then you eliminate this whole "whoops thing" you want to wear a Warlord vest, fine get it in CADPAT, You want XYZ...fine get it in CADPAT then you can wear what you want and still look Canadian.

Thinking like it isn't issue then your not to wear it, may/will cost lives sooner or later we need to move into the 21st century in our mind set and understand that Issue kit is not always even close to good enough (lowest bidder people) lets stop thinking were in the Korean War era and start looking to the future.

*EDIT for Clarity


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## vonGarvin (26 Jun 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Sorry GW couldn't disagree more and I sure the Brits and the PPCLI have proved it over and over again, I don;t care who makes it all I care about is it CADPAT then you eliminate this whole "whoops thing" you want to wear a Warlord vest, fine get it in CADPAT, You want XYZ...fine get it in CADPAT then you can wear what you want and still look Canadian.
> 
> Thinking like if it isn't issue then your not to wear may/will cost lives sooner or later we need to move into the 21st century in our mind set and understand that Issue kit is not always even close to good enough (lowest bidder people) lets stop thinking were in the Korean War era and start looking to the future.


I hope I don't lose my regimental banner over this, but this makes sense: to a point.  
(a) CADPAT for all "stuff"
(b) Gear at crown expense OR reimbursable to said member if said gear is deemed necessary
(c) Gear must be approved by the crown for use on operations (in other words, so long as a person in the chain of command decrees, for example, that said pair of boots meets the requirements for said operation).  Unfortunately, it's a liability issue in that case.


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## HItorMiss (26 Jun 2006)

Honestly all it will take would be 1 Royal RSM to get his head out of his 5th point of contact and things might change, all be it very slow;y for us Royals...then again I hear good things coming from 3 RCR from the new RSM.


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Jun 2006)

Admittedly not ever having been in a firefight (nor even as much as played paintball), I feel compelled to ask - is there a historical precedent for "guys ... getting wacked (sic) because they can't draw their mags fast enough"? 

I mean, don't we operate in sections, with fire control orders and G.R.I.T. and all that good stuff, in order to prevent situations where a battle is won or lost based on how fast one individual can pull one magazine out of his pouch? 

It just doesn't seem like a valid argument to me, but of course I defer to those who do it for real.

Having said that, the entire point of the creation of CADPAT seems to be, as HoM points out, giving us a unique "uniform" look. How many people really select targets based on the type of load bearing gear they are carrying in any event? Wouldn't target identification be made through the uniform itself, headgear, possibly racial characteristics, weapons carried, type of vehicle used, etc.? I have to agree that if something is in CADPAT that meets the standard of identifying him - especially if he is carrying a C7, wearing CADPAT uniform and wearing a CADPAT helmet cover.  

Then again, in winter whites, the same problem of target identification applies, doesn't it?


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## HItorMiss (26 Jun 2006)

Ever been number 1 in the stack? yup guess what when your round doesn't feed properly or your hear that click you better be changing mags quick. And sure we have fire control and sections but when rounds are coming you way and you run empty it just maybe that someone else in the line ran dry to and now your 2 weapons down, now it really does matter how fast that mag goes on.

You haven't got the experience to be playing in this conversation, wise of you to admit it.


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## GAP (26 Jun 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Admittedly not ever having been in a firefight (nor even as much as played paintball), I feel compelled to ask - is there a historical precedent for "guys ... getting wacked (sic) because they can't draw their mags fast enough"?



I don't know about CF statistics, but I have personally had 2 friends hit while struggling to get a magazine out of the fabric crossed bandoleers we carried extra ammo in. In an ambush or heavy contact, there are bullets flying everwhere, some with your name on them. You go through ammo at a phenomenal rate, and you don't even remember changing the magazine, it is automatic, but you sure remember struggling with trying to get the magazine out of the bandoleer, it's 2 seconds you can't afford


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## Michael Dorosh (26 Jun 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> You haven't got the experience to be playing in this conversation, wise of you to admit it.



Is the point of the forum to come on board and boast about one's achievements and belittle others for their lack of knowledge, or to learn about things?

I tend to do both. Guess what I was just doing?   Thanks to you and GAP for the info.


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## Trinity (26 Jun 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Guess what I was just doing?



Straying out of your lane?  

Some people come to use sarcasm too.


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## HItorMiss (26 Jun 2006)

Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> Is the point of the forum to come on board and boast about one's achievements and belittle others for their lack of knowledge, or to learn about things?


 all of the above if you have achievements to be proud or like promotion or courses, sometimes belittling them is the only way they will learn, I have learned a lot because I only post in threads I have experience in.


			
				Michael Dorosh said:
			
		

> I tend to do both. Guess what I was just doing?



not following the advice you have often given others and staid silent and learned by reading.

your welcome for the knowledge btw Glad it could be useful


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## paffomaybe (26 Jun 2006)

One example in favour of uniform uniformity:  I was told that the first aid kit needs to be in the same pocket at all time.  If you go down, the person who comes across you takes your kit (not his own) to repair you.  If you're wearing non-standard kit, it goes to follow that problems could arise (like  :skull?


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## HItorMiss (26 Jun 2006)

OK this thread is getting high jacked and it's all been dicussed before at length.

As for first aid supplies most vest have an equivilant pocket to put that in or a marked pocket for it with the red (tactical black) cross to give the medic or fireteam partner a clue as to were it is, so really that's a moot point.


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## Fusaki (26 Jun 2006)

> Give you a break?  I don't know where to start on your little tirade.  Obviously you have no idea of what a uniform is, nor what uniformity entails.  There are a few things that I disagree with in this discussion and a few things that I agree with, but your little tirade takes the cake.  If we were to be allowed to dress completely as we pleased, then we wouldn't be "uniform" nor easily identifiable on the battlefield.  Wouldn't it be great to have to tell a whole bunch of families that their child who was serving overseas as a member of the CF was killed because (s)he was wearing something not easily identifiable as CF and was shot by mistake.  "Oops! I thought you were Taliban!"  "Sorry!"  Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it.



If you're so messed up that you can't identify CADPAT in a firefight, then you probably wont be able to identify which vest a guy is wearing either. Like HoM said, a CADPAT vest would be the ideal and these are becoming more and more common as people wake up. Even though friendly troops might shoot at me by mistake, the Taliban will do it on purpose. I'll take my chances with a chest rig. 

And its still better then telling mom and dad their son died because looking the same is more important than winning the firefight.

Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it.


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## George Wallace (26 Jun 2006)

Well....I am glad that you can accurately ID CADPAT out at 500 + meters in low visibility.  My eyes and sights don't always cut it on those longer ranges.  Now put a turban or ball cap on the SF guys and what do you see?  Or perhaps the CADPAT Cape/poncho/ground sheet?  At a distance, where I would perfer to stop the enemy, it is sometimes difficult to ID individuals, even vehicles.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jun 2006)

Fact.  The kit does not make the man.  The kit makes the man do the job easier.  
It is clear that rounds are used at a huge rate in a fire fight and go back to the LAV to get more ammo is not necessarily practical.  Also having more rounds loaded ie 10 mags over 5 ensure that more rounds go down range quicker.  Fumbling to get your grenade out of its pocket will definitely become problematic.  The quicker you can get that grenade out the better.

Fact.  Discipline is integral to a professional army and a few of the ways to do that is to look the same, show up on time and in the proper state of dress.  However if the troops don't have that professionalism or discipline when they deploy using aftermarket kit then they never will.
I would rather go into a fight knowing I have the best armour, best load bearing vest, the best sight, the best boots etc and get charged then looking like the other guy for the Army's yes men of the RCR.


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## glock17 (26 Jun 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Ever been number 1 in the stack? yup guess what when your round doesn't feed properly or your hear that click you better be changing mags quick. And sure we have fire control and sections but when rounds are coming you way and you run empty it just maybe that someone else in the line ran dry to and now your 2 weapons down, now it really does matter how fast that mag goes on.
> 
> You haven't got the experience to be playing in this conversation, wise of you to admit it.



Sorry for the highjack but:  Do they not teach IA's & stoppages anymore?  Or, is the first one " chang mags" ?


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jun 2006)

They do teach IA's and changing mags is one of them.

P.S.  the postion of the bolt on the C7 dictates which to use.


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## glock17 (26 Jun 2006)

"Seen"

Thanks


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## Enzo (26 Jun 2006)

Reading this just reminds me of how grateful I am to be going PPCLI this time out; I wasn't anal enough for the RCR  ;D


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## Armymedic (26 Jun 2006)

I am not sure of the exact quote but,

"it is a poor craftsman who blames his tools". 

End of story.


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## paracowboy (26 Jun 2006)

Hell, if we take that arguement to it's fullest, why not just send 'em in with puttees and Ross rifles?

"it is a true dickhead who sends his troops into combat with sub-par equipment"


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jun 2006)

I suppose we could use sandels and camels.  Seems to work for the Taliban.

A craftsman knows which tools are shit and which aren't.  That's why they tend to have their own set.


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## vonGarvin (26 Jun 2006)

*With regards to regimental stereotypes, please refrain.  It adds nothing to this thread.*
Good points have been made all round.  The main point to remember is logistics.  If the crown cannot supply and replace kit for deployed troops, then we are wasting our time.  See my earlier post: perhaps there is room for "something else" or "another approach", such as having approved suppliers as sub-contractors to provide the CF with kit that has been trialed and found acceptable.

As for "Mr. Giggity Giggity" (Quagmire: sorry, couldn't resist ;D), the point of having 10 mags vice 5 doesn't necessarily make the rounds go out faster, but for a longer sustained time without resupplying one's self.  And, of course, if the LAV is "right there", of course the 7.62mm coaxial Machine Gun may be of assistance   Having said that, your point is very well taken.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jun 2006)

Sir with all due respect is it a stereotype if its true. 

Anyway the LAV will not always be there (LAV's don't go up mountains well)  or may be taken out.  There was a case of a LAV losing its optics.  By quicker I meant this.  It is quicker to have more rounds down range when you have more mags because you don't have to reload as much.  I do realize fire discipline is important however in the shit storm of A Stan anything can happen and does.
Agreed on the suppliers that are approved like the Americans.  However see my post as to why it is not as big a deal as it is made out.  You and I have gone back and forth on this previously and have come to the same result.


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## Farmboy (26 Jun 2006)

Interesting that this discussion is still going.

 I could tell some stories, quote some emails, point out some facts, but really, will it change any thinking on this subject?

 Unlikely, as those who are adapting, making the box bigger, and are always thinking about constant improvement and effectiveness are the ones who are fighting for better gear and equipment already.

 Those happy when the troops are turned out with polished boots and ironed shirts are set in the mind set of the lower ranks following orders.  Well we have entered a new age when those lower ranks have to make the split second decisions, not just follow orders to storm a bridge.

 This in no way suggests that lower ranks don't have to follow orders.  It suggests again about where the focus is.


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jun 2006)

Farmboy people may contrue your dialogue as biased.  Not me though.


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## George Wallace (26 Jun 2006)

Farmboy said:
			
		

> Unlikely, as those who are adapting, making the box bigger, and are always thinking about constant improvement and effectiveness are the ones who are fighting for better gear and equipment already.
> 
> Those happy when the troops are turned out with polished boots and ironed shirts are set in the mind set of the lower ranks following orders.  Well we have entered a new age when those lower ranks have to make the split second decisions, not just follow orders to storm a bridge.
> 
> This in no way suggests that lower ranks don't have to follow orders.  It suggests again about where the focus is.



I, however, construe your dialogue as being very ill-informed as to what real soldiers in the CF are like.  You make them seem like automatons.  I can assure you that Canadian Soldiers, even at the lowest levels, are able to show individual initiative when it comes to following orders and getting tasks done.


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## Armymedic (26 Jun 2006)

Let us put this discussion to bed with a few things we can all agree on:

The current issue TV does not meet the operational requirements of most of the army. In particular, the infantry.

Certain units will not let you wear off the shelf kit not issued by QM.

Soldiers should not have to buy kit for use during operations. 

If kit deficiencies are repeatedly noted, then upgrades should be sought immediately.

CF kit replacement/procurement is way too slow.


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## HItorMiss (26 Jun 2006)

+1 to That AM


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jun 2006)

AM agreed on all points.


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## Yeoman (26 Jun 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Honestly all it will take would be 1 Royal RSM to get his head out of his 5th point of contact and things might change, all be it very slow;y for us Royals...then again I hear good things coming from 3 RCR from the new RSM.



more of the RSM for 1. 3? I dunno about that, I highly doubt he'd be cool with anything. I know my CSM wouldn't be at all.
as for this screaming of all being the same; boot colour (ie black in woodlands, and tan in deserts duh?), uniform style (to me that's as far as pockets on the arms I suppose, don't need no $140 ops shirt from dropzone, as shinny as it may be), head cover (what we get issued is fine so suck it up). I've always been admant about that. so long as you've got an issued set that you haven't done crap too, and you've got boots that look like what's issued. like alot of people I know have been saying, you want us to carry 10 mags in a five mag pouch how? oh okay lets just take mission essential kit out of a pouch. PW's tags and zap straps so we've got proper ID and security on the guys? naw we don't need that at all. or the water bottle? no the troops shouldn't carry as much water a possibly, let em dehydrate on us! the type of warfare that we use to train far has been put onto the back burner (not saying that we shouldn't train like that however) but the scenario's we (specifically the infantry I suppose) are in has changed totally, especially being the mountains of a-stan and a good possibility of being kilometer's away from the closest support unit. arty and mortar's can only be called so close you know?
then again I'm just a private what do I know like always right?
Greg


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## GO!!! (26 Jun 2006)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> Let us put this discussion to bed with a few things we can all agree on:
> 
> The current issue TV does not meet the operational requirements of most of the army. In particular, the infantry.
> 
> ...



If it is'nt Captain obvious, and his trusty signaller, Cpl Tips.  :

How can you say, in the same breath, that the kit we are issued is substandard, that there is no effective way for the army to replace it, when not even two pages ago you were lambasting me for being unable to "get my head around" the idea that effective units practice slavish adherence to uniformity.

Uniformity on deployment is dumb, full stop. The rig that is ideal for a C6 gunner is useless to a rifleman and even more so for a sniper. The imposition of such rules is degrading the operational effectiveness of our troops, for the sake of a pretty picture on the parade square and needs to be stopped. Operational effectiveness is the order of the day, and some of the kit we are issued is ineffective. Allowing troops to replace it is both cheap (for the army) and effective. If logistics is the concern, make him carry a spare rig in his follow up kit. There are no TVs currently available for issue anyway - our esteemed military ran out.

In one of my favourite military writings, Jean Larteguy wrote;

_I'd like to have two Armies -- one for display, with lovely guns, tanks, little Soldiers, staffs, distinguished and doddering Generals and deal little regimental officers, who would be deeply concerned over their General's bowel movements or their Colonel's piles; an Army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country."

The other would be the REAL ONE, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflage uniforms, who would not be put on display but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That's the Army in which I should like to fight._

Some posters on this forum really need to ask themselves; "which army am I advocating?".


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## Scoobie Newbie (26 Jun 2006)

GO!!! I think your very lucky your not in A Coy 2 VP right now.  Poor guys.


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## military granny (26 Jun 2006)

why is that Quagmire?


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Jun 2006)

Because the Royals will be taking a coy of Patrica's with them oversea's and I think by now you can see that we don't see eye to eye on dress and deportment ON OPERATIONS.


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## military granny (27 Jun 2006)

seen and understood


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## paracowboy (27 Jun 2006)

Quagmire said:
			
		

> Because the Royals will be taking a coy of Patrica's with them oversea's and I think by now you can see that we don't see eye to eye on dress and deportment


oh, the delicious irony of this post!


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## Scoobie Newbie (27 Jun 2006)

Sorry my ironic meter is broken.  Has it anything to do with you being a former Royal?


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## Armymedic (27 Jun 2006)

Perhaps this is an occasion you should have chewn on your own words:


> Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence





			
				GO!!! said:
			
		

> In one of my favourite military writings, Jean Larteguy wrote;
> 
> _I'd like to have two Armies -- one for display, with lovely guns, tanks, little Soldiers, staffs, distinguished and doddering Generals and deal little regimental officers, who would be deeply concerned over their General's bowel movements or their Colonel's piles; an Army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country."
> 
> ...


What is so wrong to have both roled into one?  Oh wait, that is what a PROFESSIONAL ARMY is.


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## paracowboy (27 Jun 2006)

Enough.
You two want to carry on with this, take it private.


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## HItorMiss (27 Jun 2006)

Quagmire if I didn't like you so much I might be insulted... ;D

Thankfully the Royals on this TF at many levels seem to be going away from the idea of uniformity over effectiveness, however the upper echelon seems stuck in old mentality perhaps it will change while on operations... I have my theories anyway.


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## military granny (27 Jun 2006)

Well gents, the only thing I hope is that once all the men and women get on the ground over there that work together because as all of us know they are having some rough days.Regimental pride is a great thing and here at home they can have their peeing contests but over there they have got to work together. So RCR and the PPCLI don't see eye to eye on a few things, here's hoping that they leave it at the gate.


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## HItorMiss (27 Jun 2006)

Granny your reading to much into this discussion, RCR and PPCLI may not agree on kit usage but we work together just fine always have, it's the same tactics and training across the board, NEVER would we let regimental pride interfer with our jobs, I may call them Dirty Pat's and they call me a Chicken ****** but if you shoot at one you shoot at us all.


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## Trinity (27 Jun 2006)

HitorMiss said:
			
		

> Granny your reading to much into this discussion, RCR and PPCLI may not agree on kit usage but we work together just fine always have, it's the same tactics and training across the board, NEVER would we let regimental pride interfer with our jobs, I may call them Dirty Pat's and they call me a Chicken ****** but if you shoot at one you shoot at us all.




Unless you are a Van Doo?


JK.. JK


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## military granny (27 Jun 2006)

Good to know HoM.


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