# Dinner with PM a waste of time: Williams



## Nfld Sapper (11 Jan 2008)

Article Link

Dinner with PM a waste of time: Williams  

Canadian Press

The Canadian Press—Ottawa
Premier Danny Williams barely arrived in the nation’s capital before dismissing Friday’s first ministers’ dinner with Prime Minister Stephen Harper as a political charade.
Premiers are planning to use the meeting to pressure Harper to pour massive financial aid into helping export-driven industries battered by the strong dollar, soaring fuel prices and the slumping U.S. economy.
But the colourful premier of Newfoundland and Labrador said an informal four-hour chat over a meal at 24 Sussex Drive is no way to make serious progress on a serious matter.
“I have to go with an open mind, but I don’t like the way that the premiers are being corralled into this situation,” Williams said on arriving at a pre-dinner meeting with his fellow provincial and territorial leaders.
“To have to come here to be told it’s a certain time, it’s going to be over supper, officials aren’t allowed in, there’s no preparation going on between the governments and the bureaucracies and we’re gonna be out by the Friday night movie.
“How can you get anything done? I think maybe a weekend at Bernie’s might be more productive,” an apparent reference to a 1989 movie in which the title character is a corpse.
In an earlier interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said the dinner format benefits Harper because it limits the time for any meaningful discussion. And he chided Harper for failing to hold a formal first ministers’ summit since becoming prime minister two years ago.
Shortly after he took office, Harper did meet informally over dinner with premiers.
“There hasn’t been a first ministers’ meeting with this prime minister in two years and to reduce that to a very short meeting on a Friday night is not appropriate,” he said.
Privately, some officials from other provinces have echoed Williams’ sentiments. But his fellow premiers refrained from publicly criticizing the format.
The meeting is being held at the behest of the premiers of Ontario and Quebec, Canada’s manufacturing heartland. Dalton McGuinty and Jean Charest, backed by most other premiers, plan to pressure Harper to provide massive federal financial aid for struggling industries.
In a pre-emptive strike, Harper unveiled a $1-billion aid package Thursday aimed at bolstering one-industry communities that have been devastated by layoffs and factory and mill closures.
While some premiers welcomed the package as a good start, McGuinty and Charest said it’s too little, too late.
They said the $1 billion is a fraction of what’s needed. And they continued Friday to criticize Harper for saying the money won’t start flowing unless opposition parties agree to pass the next federal budget weeks from now.
“The problem is today,” said Charest.
“We don’t want it to become an election stake and we don’t want the forestry workers to become victims of the election campaign.”
McGuinty said premiers “have to make sure that the federal government understands that it is urgent to act as early as possible.”


----------



## X-mo-1979 (11 Jan 2008)

Danny williams for PM.
Newife in charge of the country 
Newfie in charge of the army.
Maybe we could get this country sorted out for good.!

Having said that Harper is by far my favoite PM to date.


----------



## ModlrMike (11 Jan 2008)

If Danny were a true Newfie, he'd have sorted this out over a beer long ago.  ;D ;D


----------



## Fishbone Jones (11 Jan 2008)

A grandstanding showboat. He should be real careful all his bellyaching doesn't come back an bite him in the ass.


----------



## sgf (11 Jan 2008)

after the results of the last election in Nfld, it looks as if Danny is doing a lot of things right. Hes a pretty smart guy.


----------



## Gunner (11 Jan 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> after the results of the last election in Nfld, it looks as if Danny is doing a lot of things right. Hes a pretty smart guy.



Or the electorate is swayed by a politician using the Ottawa (insert US for national politics) "boogeyman".


----------



## Reccesoldier (11 Jan 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> after the results of the last election in Nfld, it looks as if Danny is doing a lot of things right. Hes a pretty smart guy.



Playing at being the tough guy with Ottawa always works.  Too bad such infantile outbursts dont result in a proportionate decrease in transfer (welfare) payments from the federal government.


----------



## newfin (12 Jan 2008)

My family is from Newfoundland and my parents are living there now.  So, I try to keep on top of what's going on with Newfoundland politics as much as I can.  Newfoundlanders love a vocal, straight forward style from their politicians.  It makes it appear that they are being sincere and can be trusted.  But this Williams character is something else.  If my children behave like he does (and they sometimes do, more often than I like) they get told to stow their attitude pretty quickly.  He comes across as the kind of guy who is always pissed off because things are not going "his" way.  It would be interesting to know if he runs his cabinet the same way.  I hope Harper does not give in to him.  Because as one poster earlier noted when the Premiers whine loud enough and publicly enough the PM of the day usually gives them their way.  In this case I think that Harper might think that he is not going to win any seats in NL anyway so what political gain is there in giving in to Williams' demands and making him look good?  Not a whole lot as far as I can tell.  I think Harper intends to let Williams stew in his own juice for a while and see what happens.  The PM seems to have a good head for political tactics (as did Chretien) and he might just decide to be patient with this Williams problem.


----------



## Bigrex (12 Jan 2008)

So, what is Williams supposed to do? Bend over and take it from behind while smiling  like the NS premiere did? Harper and the Tories "equalization" payments will cost Nfld billions in revenue so he and every Newf deserves to be upset. It's like being a little kid and having your big brother come up and hand you a Loonie, then saying that because he gave you that dollar, he is going to take your $5 allowance that week except that little boy can go to his parents and complain, Williams can only complain to the person ripping him off. And it isn't only Williams, the Sask premiere started legal action for breach of contract, and Ontario and Quebec Premieres are now upset over the inadequate money for industries. In fact, the only premier who I haven't seen say anything bad is the one from Alberta, go figure, booming financially and still getting money from Ottawa hand over fist. And if Harper won't even let the majority of his own caucus have a voice, who would think that he even gave a crap about what provincial politicians have to say, as he probably will flush anything they said down the toilet along with the remnants of their supper they ate.


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (12 Jan 2008)

Bigrex said:
			
		

> In fact, the only premier who I haven't seen say anything bad is the one from Alberta, go figure, booming financially and still getting money from Ottawa hand over fist.



Bullshit.......



			
				Bigrex said:
			
		

> And if Harper won't even let the majority of his own caucus have a voice,.



Do you sit in at these meetings??...if not than once again your hatred is making a fool of you.


----------



## newfin (12 Jan 2008)

Look, here's my position.  If Newfoundland or any other province is making extra cash to add to their bottom line then that is great, the less money they get handed to them from Ottawa the better.  But what Williams wants is to make extra cash from the oil AND have more cash from Ottawa.  That's sort of like collecting EI and having a job.  Newfoundlanders need to be able to stand on their own two feet financially, and it looks like it is finally happening.  

My point about Danny Williams is that he comes across in the media, in the public's eye, as a child who is prone to temper tantrums.  No, I don't think he should bend over and ask for it harder but he should have a little tact, politically.  This is not private business, it's politics.  So, if he goes out of his way to make the PM look like an ass every chance he gets then I hope he gets a good lesson "You made your bed, now lie in it."


----------



## sgf (12 Jan 2008)

the only thing that williams wants, is for harper to honor a deal that harper had all ready agreed too, in other words to keep his promise. not a lot to expect from a PM.


----------



## Flip (12 Jan 2008)

Oh boy!

BigRex has a weird idea of what Alberta gets from Ottawa.
And yes, I think Harper is being perfectly fair with Nfld.

As I understand it Newfoundland loses nothing in the transfer payments
until their provincial income excedes what is average in the country.

It would be like the Clampets collecting welfare.

Until the oil starts to make big changes - there is NOTHING to 
get amped up about.

Oh, and BigRex, those tranfer payments you're getting?
You're welcome. ( from Alberta )


----------



## Cronicbny (12 Jan 2008)

Bigrex said:
			
		

> So, what is Williams supposed to do? Bend over and take it from behind while smiling  like the NS premiere did? Harper and the Tories "equalization" payments will cost Nfld billions in revenue so he and every Newf deserves to be upset. It's like being a little kid and having your big brother come up and hand you a Loonie, then saying that because he gave you that dollar, he is going to take your $5 allowance that week except that little boy can go to his parents and complain, Williams can only complain to the person ripping him off. And it isn't only Williams, the Sask premiere started legal action for breach of contract, and Ontario and Quebec Premieres are now upset over the inadequate money for industries. In fact, the only premier who I haven't seen say anything bad is the one from Alberta, go figure, booming financially and still getting money from Ottawa hand over fist. And if Harper won't even let the majority of his own caucus have a voice, who would think that he even gave a crap about what provincial politicians have to say, as he probably will flush anything they said down the toilet along with the remnants of their supper they ate.



Williams is doing what any politician would do in his position... blame someone else for his problems. He's good at it and I would never fault the man for doing what he does best. He can pull down the maple leaf all he wants, complain all he wants and cry like the lone 5 year old of confederation as much as it pleases him. Fact of the matter is, pretty soon his province will join the ranks of the "have" provinces, and suddenly the cash will start to dry up from O-Town. What will really test Mr. Williams is how he governs an economy that can't blame it's state on Ottawa. Though I am sure he will be the first to claim that federal money didn't help NL get back into a successful position. 

As for pointing fingers at Alberta... it's all good. People in Alberta flatly don't care that so many billions of dollars are being siphoned out of their province to support anti-government hacks like Williams. Why? Because Alberta, unlike Newfoundland (it seems) understands it's position in this Federation. Regardless of circumstance, Peter Lougheed, Don Getty and Ralph Klein were always avid supporters of other provinces. Getty and Lougheed in particular were widely respected by their counterparts in other provinces for the work they put into "team building" during constitutional negotiations. Alberta, in fact, has a long history of strongly supporting the Federation. Newfoundland, on the other hand, has a long history of whining about the makeup of the Federation, at one point even refusing to bring a constitutional amendment forward for a vote which other provinces had already ratified. Couple that with the VERY close vote to even join Canada in the first place makes me less than sympathetic towards whiny premiers who look upon the rest of the country with disdain and stare into the media's camera with puppy dog eyes. 

The sad part about this is that Newfoundlanders are great people, who have (sadly) been historically led by whiny hammerheads. The good news? Most of them are actually being led by economically competent governments in other provinces.


----------



## George Wallace (13 Jan 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> the only thing that williams wants, is for harper to honor a deal that harper had all ready agreed too, in other words to keep his promise. not a lot to expect from a PM.



On the "promise" bit in your spiele; have you known any PM, especially a Liberal, keep any of their promises?   How about Chretien's "I'll kill the GST"?  I am sure I don't have to go any further, as it seems to me that Harper is the first PM that I can honestly remember "KEEPING a campaign promise".  He promised a 1% drop in the GST in one year and a 1% drop in the next.  He did that.   He has pumped more money into the CF than any previous PM in the last 50 years.  He may have the personality of a door knob, but he still has done more for the country than any other PM since Pearson.


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO (13 Jan 2008)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> On the "promise" bit in your spiele; have you known any PM, especially a Liberal, keep any of their promises?   How about Chretien's "I'll kill the GST"?  I am sure I don't have to go any further, as it seems to me that Harper is the first PM that I can honestly remember "KEEPING a campaign promise".  He promised a 1% drop in the GST in one year and a 1% drop in the next.  He did that.   He has pumped more money into the CF than any previous PM in the last 50 years.  He may have the personality of a door knob, but he still has done more for the country than any other PM since Pearson.



Williams is a pompous windbag who plays well to the home town crowd cause they think he's "sticking it to the man."  Talk to the business men and women of NF and they will tell you this guy is not good for the province. I had the opportunity to visit a friend of mine in St John's this past summer who is a very successful bussinessman and he and his colleague's are not amused by this guy's "hold his breath till he turns blue" politics at all!


----------



## sgf (13 Jan 2008)

you are completely right about Chretian and many of his promises and yes Harper did manage to keep the GST promise, but sadly he broke a lot more. The Atlantic Accord for one, and income trust for another, having only elected members in his Cabinet.  Its a good thing that he is pumping so much money into DND, and lets hope he continues to do so, because if this war continues much longer its going to be needed. 
You have probably guessed by now, that I do not think hes the best PM since sliced bread... I like a PM that allows his Cabinet Ministers to do their job without checking first with the PMO.


----------



## George Wallace (13 Jan 2008)

Having been, more or less, "Out of Power" for a good twenty plus years, that leaves him more or less with nothing but "rookies" to fill Cabinet.  That is some steep "Learning Curve" to meet.


----------



## sgf (13 Jan 2008)

A steep learning curve? Sure, I buy that but these ministers arent that inexperienced, and they have a deputy minister and staff that have been there for many years to guide and advise them. It makes me wonder if Harper does not trust his own Cabinet not to make a gaffe or not to tow the party line


----------



## Fishbone Jones (13 Jan 2008)

Chretien was just as stringent with his cabinet and caucus. No one made a move without the little thug from Shawinigan's say so. He told them what to say and when to say it. Almost every vote was whipped. Harper is a gem compared to the corrupt dictatorships that have been lording over us for the 20 years.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (13 Jan 2008)

Cronicbny said:
			
		

> The good news? Most of them are actually being led by economically competent governments in other provinces.



And do you think many want to be?Most newfoundlanders see Danny as a way forward.And hopefully a life at home someday.I'venever met people so attached to their province.





			
				IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> Talk to the business men and women of NF and they will tell you this guy is not good for the province. I had the opportunity to visit a friend of mine in St John's this past summer who is a very successful bussinessman and he and his colleague's are not amused by this guy's "hold his breath till he turns blue" politics at all!


.

Care to elaborate?My family is there,some bussinessmen.How is Danny messing around business?
We have seen how 59 years of yes men have done so good for the province.I believe Newfoundland is on the right path to recovery.


----------



## George Wallace (13 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> And do you think many want to be?Most newfoundlanders see Danny as a way forward.And hopefully a life at home someday.I'venever met people so attached to their province.



Ah!......Obviously you haven't met anyone from BC.     ;D


----------



## IN HOC SIGNO (13 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> And do you think many want to be?Most newfoundlanders see Danny as a way forward.And hopefully a life at home someday.I'venever met people so attached to their province.
> 
> 
> .
> ...



Friend is in the high tech sector and feels that Danny is alienating the ROC and some of the connections needed to get people to invest in the province and it's future. 
The province has got to get off it's dependency on "getting their stamps" so they can get EI and the dole. The signing of the oil deal is a good step forward....that took place after I visited there in July. Now people need jobs (good jobs at home not just training all the ex fishplant workers as hair dressers) and there are some who need to recover a work ethic. My wife is from the island so I'm not slamming folks I know nothing about. The EI paying people not to work is a problem in NS too.....a friend who runs a fish plant here can't find people who want to work beyond what it takes to get their stamps here either. 
A lot of the folks who really want to work have left the island for the west or other areas and we have a lot in the CF and RCMP too. Many want to return one day but the province needs to progress economically if they want to get out of the cycle of dependency....did the Atlantic Accord foster that or hinder it??
I think the Atlantic accord was hastily signed by a desperate Liberal government who was facing defeat and wanted to leave a thorn in the side for their successors.


----------



## Reccesoldier (14 Jan 2008)

IN HOC SIGNO said:
			
		

> . The EI paying people not to work is a problem in NS too.....a friend who runs a fish plant here can't find people who want to work beyond what it takes to get their stamps here either.



To derail this topic slightly I would think that if the businessmen got together and refused to ever hire another of these stamp collectors once they'd proven their 'work ethic' then the pool of pogey pussies would dry up fairly rapidly.  An informal "You will never work in this town again" might go a long way to encouraging a real work ethic.  Government gravy be damned, it'd be no good to them if they could only collect once.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (14 Jan 2008)

Reccesoldier said:
			
		

> To derail this topic slightly I would think that if the businessmen got together and refused to ever hire another of these stamp collectors once they'd proven their 'work ethic' then the pool of pogey pussies would dry up fairly rapidly.



Ok so called pogey pussies.What about plant workers.
So Instead of having 300 seasonal (EI) you suggest hire 30 full time?So in Dec-Jan what do you do with the 30 workers?Pay them to sit around?And what about during caplin seasons/shrimp boat etc?30 workers will keep up with the demand?Not going to happen.
In Newfoundland work is seasonal.Usually most companies will not give you enough hours to get into the union,therefore you scrape a living out of seasonal work and EI.

As for work ethic,I know plenty on the "pogey" back home who work in things like fish plants and forestry who work their ass's off during the seasonal work.Most don't decide to take a few months off,the companies decide for them. I will guarantee most would love to have the full time work,except our economy and past years of neglect have left nothing else.

I am a Newfoundlander who has never had a welfare check or pogey (except parental leave ;D ).
It's real nice to sit in an area of Canada where their are ton's of jobs to scrape a living out of it.But there are guy's who are highly educated (my father for one a MUN Grad) who is 55 and works pouring cement half of the year then goes on pogey.
As for him being lazy,I wont get into a pissing match with you over it.However I would love to see half of you keep up on a construction site.

So you can stop with the sweeping generalisations at anytime.


----------



## xo31@711ret (14 Jan 2008)

+1 X-mo-1979; I would have liked to commented earlier, but I figured I should push back from the keyboard until the ol' blood stopped boiling; plus I get fatigued,  'worn out' trying to explain to (a very) few that not all of us ' Goofy Newfies' are rubber boot wearing, beer swillin' well-fare free-loaders...'bye'.....folks can make all the generalizations, but unless you have really been there (not just a couple of nights on 'George Street')........


----------



## Reccesoldier (14 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Ok so called pogey pussies.What about plant workers.
> So Instead of having 300 seasonal (EI) you suggest hire 30 full time?So in Dec-Jan what do you do with the 30 workers?Pay them to sit around?And what about during caplin seasons/shrimp boat etc?30 workers will keep up with the demand?Not going to happen.
> In Newfoundland work is seasonal.Usually most companies will not give you enough hours to get into the union,therefore you scrape a living out of seasonal work and EI.
> 
> ...



I wrote what I wrote specifically with regard to the comment made about businessmen who can not find workers who want to work full time.  I am a Bluenoser and I know that there are those who use pogey as a means to sit around and smoke dope all day.  The people who work only long enough to get their stamps and then ask the boss to "lay them off".  My suggestion is that people who do that (Welfare Bums, Pogey pussies or whatever you want to call them) be told in no uncertain terms that they will never be hired by that business again, or if more than one businessman could get together and create a list of these moochers, many other businesses as well.

These are the people who are/have given the maritimes such a bad rap in the ROC.  These are the ones with the culture of defeat and these are the ones that *you* Newfoundlanders and Nova Scotians are going to be dragging with you as your provinces struggle to become financially viable again.


----------



## sgf (14 Jan 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Chretien was just as stringent with his cabinet and caucus. No one made a move without the little thug from Shawinigan's say so. He told them what to say and when to say it. Almost every vote was whipped. Harper is a gem compared to the corrupt dictatorships that have been lording over us for the 20 years.



interesting, i didnt realize that.. or even read about it before.  :


----------



## Nfld Sapper (14 Jan 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> interesting, i didnt realize that.. or even read about it before.  :



Living under a rock? I'm pretty sure that it was common knowledge.


----------



## sgf (14 Jan 2008)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Living under a rock? I'm pretty sure that it was common knowledge.


oh it probably was common knowledge, much like harper muzzling his cabinet and caucas. maybe its just a trait of all PMs


----------



## X-mo-1979 (14 Jan 2008)

Reccesoldier said:
			
		

> I wrote what I wrote specifically with regard to the comment made about businessmen who can not find workers who want to work full time.  I am a Bluenoser and I know that there are those who use pogey as a means to sit around and smoke dope all day.  The people who work only long enough to get their stamps and then ask the boss to "lay them off".  My suggestion is that people who do that (Welfare Bums, Pogey pussies or whatever you want to call them) be told in no uncertain terms that they will never be hired by that business again, or if more than one businessman could get together and create a list of these moochers, many other businesses as well.
> 
> These are the people who are/have given the maritimes such a bad rap in the ROC.  These are the ones with the culture of defeat and these are the ones that *you* Newfoundlanders and Nova Scotians are going to be dragging with you as your provinces struggle to become financially viable again.



Why do everyone compare NS and NL?Because they both have boats?(P.S Newfoundland is not part of the maritimes.)
I have no clue about N.S,never lived there and only breifly stayed there.So I can't comment about N.S and its lazy people smoking drugs.

Here is a few things danny has accomplished.It's kind of amusing that most mainlanders hate him and most Newfoundlanders love him.He's voted by Newfoundlanders for us.43 seats PC,Liberals 3,NDP 1.....kind of speaks for itself after second election doesnt it?I cant find the info right now,I will look later.However my area is very excited about over 90 billion hr's of work at Bull Arm fabrication site.Danny is slowly building up Newfoundland,it will be a have province.Something it hasnt been since confederation.

Eliminated a projected $1 billion provincial deficit. The projected unaudited surplus on a fully consolidated accrual basis for 2007-08 is $261.2 million. 

Signed a new Atlantic Accord and secured $2 billion up-front payment for offshore oil royalties. 

Invested more than $2 billion in the Infrastructure Strategy over five years, including unprecedented spending on roads, schools, hospitals, etc. 

Approved the largest personal income tax cuts in the province's history, making us the lowest taxed in Atlantic Canada. This tax reduction will save the taxpayers of this province $160 million annually. 

Developed and implemented a comprehensive $91 million Poverty Reduction Strategy and action plan. 

Invested $32 million to attract business to the province. This includes a $25 million business attraction fund and a $7 million business grants fund. The new funding programs are aimed at providing the financial means to assist organizations interested in the province as a place to invest in setting up business, and to take advantage of new opportunities. 

Established a 45 per cent resort property investment tax credit designed to encourage individuals and corporations based in the province to invest in selected tourist resort properties. 

Invested $1 billion in the province's education budget this year -the first time in the province's history the education budget has exceeded a billion dollars. 

Signed an historic MOU with the oil industry partners for the development of the Hebron-Ben Nevis field, including gaining equity and super royalties for the province. 

Successfully negotiated the terms of an arrangement for the development of the White Rose satellite fields, including a five per cent equity stake for the province in the White Rose satellite developments and a super royalty. 

Continued with potential development of the Lower Churchill. 

Released the province's first comprehensive Energy Plan. 

Invested $3.2 million in the Mineral Incentive Program over the past two years. This program assists junior mining companies and prospectors to explore minerals. Most of this activity takes place in rural areas of the province. 

Invested $6.3 million for the elimination of school fees. 

Invested $12.8 million to provide free textbooks for students in grades 9-12. 

Committed $90 million to implement the White Paper on Public Post-secondary Education, including a multi-year tuition freeze. 

Invested $3.7 million to reduce interest rates on provincial student loans by 2.5 per cent. 

Invested $10.7 million for needs-based, non-repayable, up-front grants. 

Maintained the tuition freeze for past four years. 

Increased provincial student loan limits from $110 to $140 per week and increased debt reduction grants to ensure they are consistent with the increase in limits. 

Reduced the expected parental contributions to student financial assistance programs, thereby enhancing access for more low- and middle-income families. 

Increased the income threshold to qualify for interest relief by 5 per cent. 

Eliminated the claw-back of the Student Loan Shelter Allowance for students with dependent children in receipt of income support. 

Released the Skills Task Force report to ensure our trades are able to respond to the needs of large-scale development projects. 

Invested $1,440,000 in regional waste management initiatives which included: 
$540,000 on the Northern Peninsula; 
$290,000 in the Green Bay region; 
$89,000 in Western Newfoundland 
$286,000 in Central Newfoundland 
$60,000 on the Burin Peninsula 
$175,000 on the Avalon Peninsula 

Provided an ex gratia payment of $24 million in recognition of the value of the sacrifices made by the province's public servants from 1988-1991. 

Invested $1.25 million annually to support a new six-year action plan on violence prevention - Taking Action Against Violence. 

Increased funding for women's centres. 

Focused on helping Aboriginal women through funding initiatives, conferences, etc. 

Made a $1.953 billion payment into the Teachers' Pension Plan for the unfunded liability, resulting in a significant reduction of debt servicing costs. 

Introduced a home heating rebate program that will provide over 68,000 residents with up to $200 towards high home heating costs at a price tag of $12.8 million. Households that heat with electricity are eligible for this assistance for the first time. 

Approved in principle the sale of the assets of Fishery Products International (FPI) and reached MOUs with High Liner Foods Inc. and Ocean Choice International Inc.; and achieved a five-year agreement for the sustained operation of existing FPI facilities, where traditional levels of employment will be maintained. 

Committed approximately $140 million through Fish Industry Renewal process. 

Funded a $10 million Aquaculture Capital Investment Program, which will add approximately 150 full-time jobs to the industry within the next two years, for a total of 350 new jobs in the aquaculture sector. 

Partnered with Cooke Aquaculture to invest $10 million over the next two years in a $156 million project that will triple our salmon aquaculture industry from its current production of 6,000MT to 18,000MT by 2008. This project has created 30 full time jobs immediately on the farm and will provide an additional 170 jobs over the next 18 months. 

Froze auto insurance rates from March 2004 to March 2005. 

Legislated auto insurance reform measures that provide consumers with an average savings of 20 per cent on their auto insurance bills. 

Added a third MRI in the province. 

Invested in new satellite dialysis units for Carbonear, Gander, St. Anthony, Burin and Happy Valley-Goose Bay. 

Invested $16.5 million to construct a new primary health clinic in Grand Bank and redevelop the Blue Crest Inter Faith Home; followed by $7.2 million in Budget 2007 to continue construction on the health centre in Grand Bank and to redevelop the Blue Crest Nursing Home. 

Approved new Long Term Care facilities throughout the province. 

Provided funding for mental health, addictions, new vaccines for children, insulin pumps for children, improved dental care programs for children. 

Invested money to add drugs for serious illnesses such as breast cancer, colorectal cancer, multiple myeloma; Alzheimer's disease and multiple sclerosis. 

Provided over $4 million to enhance services and support for individuals and families living with disabilities. 

Added $8 million to the $10 million allocated last year to the Small and Medium Enterprise Fund to help small and medium-sized businesses grow with loans and equity investment. 

Invested $15 million in the $52 million fibre optic link project which will bring broadband to more rural communities and increase competitiveness in the province. 

Invested substantial new monies for policing through the RCMP and RNC. 

Provided funding to help fight against salmon poaching. 

Announced the Northern Strategic Plan for Labrador as part of Budget 2007. Under the NSP, more than $250 million, including existing and new initiatives, will be invested in the region over the next five years. Approximately $55 million will be spent for new initiatives over the next five years to implement the plan. 

Decreased ferry rates. Government reduced passenger and vehicle-plus-driver fares on provincial ferries to bring them in line with road equivalency costs and cancel the five per cent, across the board, rate increase for all fares at a cost of 1.5 million for phase one. The reduction in ferry rates will benefit individuals who live in smaller communities especially those who commute to work. It will also provide more cost-effective access to private and public sector services. Additionally, it will stimulate our tourism sector, as lower fares will encourage our tourists to use the ferry system to see even more of our beautiful province. 

Made unprecedented investments in tourism marketing and our investments into culture help rural communities. Starting in 2004, this government has nearly doubled the tourism marketing budget from $6 million to $11 million. This investment builds upon the province's investment in Budget 2006 of $17.6 million over three years to implement a cultural plan that preserves, supports and develops the province's cultural resources. 

Provided early commitment of capital works programs for 2007-08 valued at $77.4 million, the provincial portion of which is $36.2 million. 

Approved the 2005-08 Multi-year Capital Works Program for a total investment in municipal infrastructure of $85 million of which $42.5 million is provincial. 

Funded Employment Support Programs for the fiscal year 2006-07 estimated at $10.0 million. This included the funding of 425 projects with a total of 3,121 individuals assisted. 

Invested $15 million through the Provincial Silviculture Program to ensure responsible management of the forest resource while generating meaningful employment opportunities. 

Allocated, over the past two years, $7 million to construct approximately 140 km of new forest resource roads and reconstruct an additional 60 km of forest resource roads to ensure access to timber on Crown limits for industry. 

Provided $4 million for a new Agriculture and Agrifoods Development Fund (AADF) to support large-scale agriculture and agrifoods projects throughout our province, as well $2.8 million that was allocated in last year's budget but not expended has been carried forward. 

Invested $500,000 to further develop small to medium-scale agricultural opportunities under the Provincial Agrifoods Assistance Program, bringing government's total annual investment to $2 million. 

Announced $17.6 million over three years to implement the province's first cultural plan entitled Creative Newfoundland and Labrador: The Blueprint for Development and Investment in Culture


----------



## Mike Baker (14 Jan 2008)

Well, it is different when you do live here, like what X-mo has said. He has done a lot more then many of our other Premiers, heck, he even came here, the very first time any Premier ever visited our town, and we have been around a while.


----------



## GAP (14 Jan 2008)

Soooo....if he is handing out all this oil related money, and seeming to be doing a pretty good job, why does he think he is entitled to the equalization welfare $$?


----------



## Sub_Guy (14 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I have no clue about N.S,never lived there and only breifly stayed there.So I can't comment about N.S and its lazy people smoking drugs.



That statement was uncalled for, its no different than me saying that Newfoundlanders sit around all day drinking rum, playing the spoons, while complaining how the Europeans killed the fishing industry, meanwhile being paid to do so by the rest of Canada.   

Both statements couldn't be further from the truth.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (14 Jan 2008)

Reccesoldier said:
			
		

> .  I am a Bluenoser and I know that there are those who use pogey as a means to sit around and smoke dope all day.  The people who work only long enough to get their stamps and then ask the boss to "lay them off".





			
				Dolphin_Hunter said:
			
		

> That statement was uncalled for, its no different than me saying that Newfoundlanders sit around all day drinking rum, playing the spoons, while complaining how the Europeans killed the fishing industry, meanwhile being paid to do so by the rest of Canada.
> 
> Both statements couldn't be further from the truth.


   

Dolphin hunter,I was refering to Reccesoldier's last post.Not making sweeping generalizations.

Think you misunderstood my post.


----------



## retiredgrunt45 (14 Jan 2008)

> He may have the personality of a door knob, but he still has done more for the country than any other PM since Pearson.



George I concur on both counts


----------



## Sub_Guy (14 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Dolphin hunter,I was refering to Reccesoldier's last post.Not making sweeping generalizations.
> 
> Think you misunderstood my post.



Ahh..... Places hat of shame on head...


----------



## X-mo-1979 (14 Jan 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Chretien was just as stringent with his cabinet and caucus. No one made a move without the little thug from Shawinigan's say so. He told them what to say and when to say it. Almost every vote was whipped. Harper is a gem compared to the corrupt dictatorships that have been lording over us for the 20 years.



And no matter anyone's view on Mr.Williams I think most can agree with that statement.


----------



## SeaKingTacco (14 Jan 2008)

> So Instead of having 300 seasonal (EI) you suggest hire 30 full time?



That's pretty much the idea.  I realize fishing is a seasonal industry, but so is farming on the prairies and EI is exactly shoveled out around Saskatchewan farming towns.  How to put this gently...I realize those seasonal jobs are held by real people, but honestly, the pogey is not good for anyone.  It makes entire communities dependent on the vagaries of bureaucrats and politicians.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (14 Jan 2008)

SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> That's pretty much the idea.  I realize fishing is a seasonal industry, but so is farming on the prairies and EI is exactly shoveled out around Saskatchewan farming towns.  How to put this gently...I realize those seasonal jobs are held by real people, but honestly, the pogey is not good for anyone.  It makes entire communities dependent on the vagaries of bureaucrats and politicians.



Care to tell me how 30 people will offload, clean,package,ship such things at a fish plant?Have you ever worked in a fish plant?I have.

30 permant workers is around the normal amount.They do supervisor roles etc.However you need part time workers.

Although I have never farmed on the praries,I have been lucky enought to marry a woman who's family owns one here outside of ottawa.The farming community does also hire part time workers during harvest season.Not on the level needed in a fish plant but they do the same.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (14 Jan 2008)

Now having said all this do I agree with someone living on EI? Yes and no.

My biggest thing is that in Newfoundland right now the economy is so poor that part time jobs are mostly what you are going to find.And people getting into the FBI union are a rare case.You have to get IIRC over 250 hours strait work in a year.Your name is on a list
 and when the ships come in they call who they need.

I know MANY people you get 220ish hours strait then get sent home.Unionized plant workers get paid more,plus get full time positions.
Thus the cycle of the pogey.

If everyone here is so dead against the Newfies on pogey heres what you should do.Write your member of paraliment.Tell them you wish to see more money pumped into Newfoundland from Government.For the only purpose for development of the economy,to produce fulltime jobs so the 11.3 percent welfare bum's and pogey guys can make a stable life for their family's.This would then cost the union of Canada less money in welfare checks and pogey payments...
Oh wait...sounds a whole lot like what Danny is trying to do doesn't it?

Given the choice I can honestly say MOST people in my area of Newfoundland would be glad to have full time job's.However it's not the reality.


----------



## SeaKingTacco (14 Jan 2008)

Ok, so hire 60.  Or 90.  The numbers are immaterial.  Maybe those fewer "seasonal" plant workers should get 80 or 90 grand for their 13 weeks of work- and no pogey. The point is- other industries subsidize the survival of the fishery unfairly through the "payroll tax" of EI.  Before you jump all over me- I also think the same of other industries that are seasonally structured to take advantage of EI.

True story- when I was posted to Chatham NB in the early 1990s, it was common knowledge that the lobstermen were making 60-80 thousand in a several week long season, then collecting pogey for the rest of the year.  Pogey that I as 2nd Lt who earned like $28K paid for but could not collect.  Fair, huh?

If you want to make EI a true insurance scheme, if you work in a high unemployment industry, you should have to high premiums, because you have a high risk of collecting.  I should pay low premiums because, in the military, I have a low risk of ever collecting EI.


----------



## SeaKingTacco (14 Jan 2008)

> Given the choice I can honestly say MOST people in my area of Newfoundland would be glad to have full time job's.However it's not the reality.



So Choose.  Go to Alberta.  Make a bag load of money.  Come home and either retire or invest.

The fact of the matter is people do have a choice, they would just rather not exercise it.  And I can understand that, too.  I would not want to leave a small, close knit community either.  But sometimes, you got to do things that are hard. It is the way the world is.

To be completely fair- there are an awful lot of people in Newfoundland moving to where the jobs are and making a decent living. Good on them.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (14 Jan 2008)

I agree with people moving away to good jobs.
 I left at 17.And will have spent more of my life else where in Canada by the time I can move back to retire.
Honestly I seen no future for myself there when I graduated.Did I want to leave?Not at all.The sad reality is that I will be putting my parents in the grave before I get to live remotely close to Newfoundland again.And some people decide that living that far away isn't worth it to them.That's the choices they make.

Many who are not employed in the fishing industry are now doing 3 weeks on 3 off work to Alberta.They fly the workforce out there and they work 3 weeks and get on the "fort Murray express"back to St.John's.




			
				SeaKingTacco said:
			
		

> Ok, so hire 60. OR 90.  The numbers are immaterial.  Maybe those fewer "seasonal" plant workers should get 80 or 90 grand for their 13 weeks of work- and no pogey.


Please tell me if you have ever seen a crab boat?You realise how many people it takes to offload this thing alone don't you?Not cleaning shipping,sorting etc?You need large amounts of people for short  periods of time.The numbers are very relevant.Paying a guy 80,000 a year can motivate a guy,but it cant make him do the work of 200 per's.It's a business that has to make profit.Thus the communities dependance on this seasonal work.

Danny received over 70% of the Newfoundland vote.
He has mine.As I have seen FIRST HAND what he has done so far for my area.I see improvement and expect him to bring the province around.

Hopefully he will get it too a point where we are a "have" province.To me it seems he is on the right path.
And then pogey will be a thing of the past.


I'm going to tune out on this freq for fear of becoming "colourful"in language skills ,I got WORK tomorrow....hey I bet I can get top stamps this fall if I get out..SWEEET! ;D

cheers


----------



## xo31@711ret (14 Jan 2008)

The fact of the matter is people do have a choice, they would just rather not exercise it.  And I can understand that, too.  I would not want to leave a small, close knit community either.  But sometimes, you got to do things that are hard. It is the way the world is..... a hell of a lot do it. There are more of us 'Newfies' living outside the the Rock than on it. Though I've been gone for over 25 years, I get back to 'home' to visit once every year or so. Alot of my family and friends' family have transplanted and have gone west; not because they wanted to; others leave their families to work west - couple of months out / one month back not to get their 'stamps' but to avoid 'stamps' and welfare.


----------



## NL_engineer (15 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> I'm going to tune out on this freq for fear of becoming "colourful"in language skills ,I got WORK tomorrow....hey I bet I can get top stamps this fall if I get out..SWEEET! ;D
> 
> cheers



 :rofl:

you could get out now and still get top poggie


----------



## tabernac (15 Jan 2008)

Bigrex said:
			
		

> In fact, the only premier who I haven't seen say anything bad is the one from Alberta, go figure, booming financially and still getting money from Ottawa hand over fist.



Alright, do tell. How much money is Alberta getting? As far as I know, my province isn't getting ANY sort of pay out.

Can you, or anyone else substantiate that??


----------



## Osotogari (15 Jan 2008)

> In fact, the only premier who I haven't seen say anything bad is the one from Alberta, go figure, booming financially and still getting money from Ottawa hand over fist.


  

Can you even name our premier?  

Just to settle this myth, Alberta gets no money from Ottowa.  Go to the department of finance's website.  Thought we get transfers, we are in fact over $10 Billion each year of late in the hole after the vote buying program  equalization contributions.  Danny Williams wants his cake and eat it too.  It's got to be one or the other, and the people of his province deserve to be off that archaic and crippling program.  I for one am sick and tired of paying high taxes for little return.  Even during the 80's with the recession, NEP, 17% interest rates, and everything else we still got nothing from the feds.  Equalization is a Liberal Party of Canada program designed to buy votes and perpetuate a patronage system that basically forces 6 out of 10 provinces to quash initiative and depend on handouts.    

We are screaming for workers here.  There's jobs at every conceivable place from Tim Hortons to Syncrude.  There's direct flights in and out of Ft. McMurray and Edmonton, and we're happy to have you if you want to what's right instead of watching Whiny Williams shaming everyone on The Rock


----------



## Delicron (15 Jan 2008)

I have to agree with Osotogari, I can't go two blocks out here in Calgary without seeing some sort of ad for employment in big bold neon letters.  In addition, the common consensus here is that we have usually received little from the Federal Government for anything other than Infrastructure (even then, Federal MP's have often scoffed at us for demanding money to fix potholes, when Calgary itself has population of a million built on an infrastructure for 600 000).  Not that I'd even complain about this really, anyone sporting those Alberta Separatist Party stickers looks about as silly someone demanding the Montreal Canadians relocate to Kansas City.  

Newfoundland seems to still be bitter about joining Canada, so it seems they elect people that express that sentiment more often than not... :-\


----------



## sgf (15 Jan 2008)

maybe many nflders are still smarting from being screwed over from the Churchill Project.


----------



## armyvern (15 Jan 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> maybe many nflders are still smarting from being screwed over from the Churchill Project.



I'm beginning to see how you operate.

Moderator Warning

You, the "informed as the average member here" have been presented with actual "facts" and have yet to present a "factual-based" arguement in repsonse.



> maybe many nflders are still smarting from being screwed over from the Churchill Project.



You are not presenting factual based arguements for any of your claims here on this site nor for your statements. When you are countered with facts ... you resort to posting another off-topic non-fact-based statement and not reposnding to the "facts" that you are presented with. You continue to attempt to stir pot based on your mythologicaly misguided "knowledge".

Word up: We call that trolling here. It's against forum policy. 

Fair Warning: Quit the trolling, back up your statements and claims with actual "facts" instead of myths, or the warning system will quickly become applicable to yourself. That's not repressing your freedom of speech either -- that's telling you that it's high time you backed up your self-expressed knowledge and claims with "facts" not myths. It's exactly what we expect of every user on this site, not just yourself.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff


----------



## xo31@711ret (15 Jan 2008)

Newfoundland seems to still be bitter about joining Canada, so it seems they elect people that express that sentiment more often than not...  

I am proud to call myself A Canadian and will always consider myself a Canadian first & foremost. But recommend do some research on history of NL during and before Confederation; There were numerous 'referendums' on the question of Canada, Britian, self-government, the US (which Britian & Canada did not want to see a 51st state happen off the eastern coast). Joey finally got his (slight) marjory vote and here we are. And the rest is history.

Yeah, I agree we got screwed / screwed ourselves over Churchill - we made our bed, so we have to lay in it. That's why Danny doesn't want to it to happen again. Not bad for ( a well-off BUISENESS) man who doesn't take a salary as a premier....


----------



## armyvern (15 Jan 2008)

Damn ... that purple is torture on the eyes!!  :-X


----------



## xo31@711ret (15 Jan 2008)

Sorry Vern; shoulda went with Royal Blue, Yellow & Black or with Med Svc Maroon  ;D


----------



## Delicron (15 Jan 2008)

I thought I might stir it up a little with that comment...but regardless, I don't think that Newfoundlanders dislike Canada anymore...or at least, as much as they might have before.  I think they are an important part of Canada, and have an interesting history to boot.  But I'm sure, through the referendums, the cajoling, and the final slim majority win, there is some resentment, especially now that there's resource loot to be had.

That being said, I am definitely not an SME on this.  I only know what limited research has told me, and you're right, I should probably look up some more on the subject of Newfoundland's inclusion into Canada.  I think that comment about Alberta getting transfer payments just had me a little irked is all...


----------



## xo31@711ret (15 Jan 2008)

No worries Delicron; nor do I pretend to be an expert on the subject; just what little I read / from there / listening to the stories of the old timers (most who have passed on now); one thing I like about this site - most of the time we all learn something new. Most NL'ers (that I know anyway) are proud to be a Canuck. I have a lot of relatives myself in Fort Mac and southern Alberta; most of my experience with Alberta has always been Wainwright; Suffield, and the 48 hour pass to Edmonton!  ;D


----------



## Mike Baker (15 Jan 2008)

Delicron said:
			
		

> I don't think that Newfoundlanders dislike Canada anymore...or at least, as much as they might have before.


You are right with that. I am a Newfoundlander, but I am still a proud Canadian. But there are still those who prefere that Newfoundland should still be its own self governing nation, but I must admit, I do sometimes, but then I remind myself that I am a part of the best country in the world, and a Newfoundlander, so it's best of both worlds  ^-^


----------



## Pte.Butt (15 Jan 2008)

Mike Baker said:
			
		

> You are right with that. I am a Newfoundlander, but I am still a proud Canadian. But there are still those who prefere that Newfoundland should still be its own self governing nation, but I must admit, I do sometimes, but then I remind myself that I am a part of the best country in the world, and a Newfoundlander, so it's best of both worlds  ^-^




It's true, there is no place I'd rather be then here on the rock, but I am also proud to be apart of the greatest country in the world, that represents all that is good.


----------



## xo31@711ret (15 Jan 2008)

Amen Mike. Though I've been 'officially' gone for over 25 years, I still consider the Rock as Home (though the weather can be trying at times   ). Looking forward to hitting St. John's east (for 2 weeks May & June - sans the spouse and the spawn    )


----------



## Mike Baker (15 Jan 2008)

Oh, and I will be proud to serve my Country with the RNFLDR, and then in the Regular Force.


----------



## Delicron (15 Jan 2008)

> You are right with that. I am a Newfoundlander, but I am still a proud Canadian.



Absolutely!  It is good to see that.  It is also what makes me worried about the rhetoric that Danny Williams' uses, it often sets a confrontational tone that pairs Canada off against Newfoundland, and vice versa, despite most NFLD'ers being loyal Canadians.  That's something that worries me, as that kind of rhetoric often seems to escalate, to the point where no one seems to remember what the argument is about anymore, and it becomes all about grandstanding and correcting some long forgotten wrong.

Granted, Danny Williams has done wonders for NFLD, I just wonder if he's taking the wrong tone by calling out the Government so often... the rest of Canada just tires of it eventually...


----------



## Nfld Sapper (15 Jan 2008)

xo31@711ret said:
			
		

> Amen Mike. Though I've been 'officially' gone for over 25 years, I still consider the Rock as Home (though the weather can be trying at times   ). Looking forward to hitting St. John's east (for 2 weeks May & June - sans the spouse and the spawn    )



Might be around, unless I'm in Labrador or back to good old Gagetown.


----------



## PPCLI Guy (15 Jan 2008)

GAP said:
			
		

> Soooo....if he is handing out all this oil related money, and seeming to be doing a pretty good job, why does he think he is entitled to the equalization welfare $$?



No Danny-rooters willing to take this one up?

Not surprised.   :


----------



## xo31@711ret (15 Jan 2008)

Might be around, unless I'm in Labrador or back to good old Gagetown.....Hell Sapper, I'm closer to Lab City- here on the lower north of Quebec in Sept-Iles.
(Probaly closer to Lac City as the crow flies compared to Quebec City - about an 8 hour drive south in the summer).


----------



## Mike Baker (15 Jan 2008)

xo31@711ret said:
			
		

> Looking forward to hitting St. John's east (for 2 weeks May & June - sans the spouse and the spawn    )


Hmm, I might be in town around then, too.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (15 Jan 2008)

PPCLI Guy said:
			
		

> No Danny-rooters willing to take this one up?
> 
> Not surprised.   :



Ok well do tell us how Danny should take a have not province,turning it into a profitable province without trying to get as much money as possible to put programs and infastructor in place?You know we don't use beach rocks as currency down there right?

All you who are deciding to complain about the hand outs to Nfld should be glad.As stated before this rich businessman is running NFLD as his own business and trying to make a profit.10 years ago most of Canada wouldn't know anything about who the Newfoundland premier was,and that worked out real well for us didn't it?Quiet premiers who went away to Ottawa and didn't fight for anything to improve Newfoundland,only their political career's.

He doesn't accept his own deserved premier pay check for Pete sake!
McLean's ran a article last year that showed "premiers houses".Showed Mr Williams house which is a grand beautiful old home.Next to it stated "Newfoundland premier has poorest province but lives in the most expensive house."This is the type of attitude that is creating a "us and them" divide. During his last campain he drove into a small town with his very expensive car.Someone spoke up during the conference and asked him why they would make him more money to vote him in if he was blowing it on 50,000 dollar car's.
He replied Its a 80,000 car and came from my own savings account.

Newfoundlanders trust him because he isn't there for the money or for furthering a political career.He (we believe)has only Newfoundlands intrests at heart.Maybe that's why everyone to the west hates him so much,he's the first premier EVER to stand up for Newfoundland.Not suck up to central Canada as previous did.Name one previous that did.


----------



## GAP (15 Jan 2008)

That's wonderful, but nowhere in that post did I see an answer to my question other than "just because".....


----------



## X-mo-1979 (15 Jan 2008)

...because they originally said yes to it....


----------



## Fishbone Jones (15 Jan 2008)

It'll be great to look back on this thread when Nfld becomes a 'have province'. Then we can listen to them bellyache about how they have to use their oil revenues to top up Ontario and Quebec. I'm sure there'll be more than one slogan along the lines of "Let the Central bastards freeze in the dark"


----------



## X-mo-1979 (15 Jan 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> It'll be great to look back on this thread when Nfld becomes a 'have province'. Then we can listen to them bellyache about how they have to use their oil revenues to top up Ontario and Quebec. I'm sure there'll be more than one slogan along the lines of "Let the Central bastards freeze in the dark"



It sure will. 
Thats the spirit! ;D


----------



## X-mo-1979 (15 Jan 2008)

And all the Newfoundlanders can complain about the people drawing EI in Windsor.

I really don't get your guy's thinking.
You don't want to pay welfare or pogey checks to the east,yet you don't want them to recieve funds to get their province economy growing producing jobs and HOPEFULLY one day contributing back to Canada.Since 1949 Newfoundland has been taking money for no work from the rest of Canada.

Why do you think Joey Smallwood got elected and got the vote to JOIN canada?It was the 51%(some say)who most of all wanted the "baby bonus".Just watched a Bio on the biography channel,had one old lady who thought Joey himself cut the baby bonus checks himself that's why she voted to join confederation.It was a large platform for the "confederates".Still 49% voted that they didnt want help from Canada in any shape or form.

Food for thought/discussion however.

Many Newfoundlanders also look at the broken promise as yet another from Ottawa to Newfoundland.If you have to ask what promises were broken google "terms of union".And that was the start.


----------



## Fishbone Jones (15 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> And all the Newfoundlanders can complain about the people drawing EI in Windsor.



Just the ones that actually work AND pay into the system  Don't forget, most autoworkers pay almost as much UI premiums as some people pull as a wage, and until recently, most have never collected it. Also, if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't need your oil anyway ;D


----------



## X-mo-1979 (15 Jan 2008)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Just the ones that actually work AND pay into the system  Don't forget, most autoworkers pay almost as much UI premiums as some people pull as a wage, and until recently, most have never collected it. Also, if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't need your oil anyway ;D



ROTFL!

And I like to thank Canada for raising me 3 months of the year.Your pogey checks have produced a nice young Mcpl in your glorious military.

(But in reality Im sending all our PAM's to Danny.)

P.S I got family in Lasalle (sp?)Yes we are there too!


----------



## Good2Golf (15 Jan 2008)

sgf said:
			
		

> maybe many nflders are still smarting from being screwed over from the Churchill Project.



I'd be stinging over being screwed by my own people as well!

BRINCO?  Churchill Falls (Labrador) Corporation (subsidiary of BRINCO)?  And the Newfoundland Government had given resource rights to BRINCO...

Remind me again who it was that signed the contract with Hydro Quebec in 1966?


----------



## X-mo-1979 (15 Jan 2008)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I'd be stinging over being screwed by my own people as well!



Think Danny would give it away?See where we are coming from now? ;D


----------



## NL_engineer (15 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Think Danny would give it away?See where we are coming from now? ;D



Danny giving something away  :rofl: like that is going to happen



			
				Good2Golf said:
			
		

> I'd be stinging over being screwed by my own people as well!
> 
> BRINCO?  Churchill Falls (Labrador) Corporation (subsidiary of BRINCO)?  And the Newfoundland Government had given resource rights to BRINCO...
> 
> Remind me again who it was that signed the contract with Hydro Quebec in 1966?



And Danny's fighting to get it back  ;D


----------



## PPCLI Guy (16 Jan 2008)

I seem to have stumbled in to BlindBoosterism.nfld,

or perhaps HoorayHenry.roc

 :boring:


----------



## Good2Golf (16 Jan 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Think Danny would give it away?See where we are coming from now? ;D



I think so...you're saying it was someone else's fault, and that Newfoundland and Labrador would probably not sign such a contract today.

Credit should at least go to Brian Tobin in 1998 for trying to get Lucien Bouchard to revisit the contract, vice the corporate arse covering decision of the Newfoundland Government of the day to ensure CF(L)Co's survival that ended up giving away the majority of the profit of the power generation to non-Newfoundlanders.

Sorry, but you haven't convinced me that 1966 wasn't Newfoundlanders' own doing.

G2G


----------



## Proud_Newfoundlander (4 Apr 2008)

In my view Newfoundland has every reason to be upset. Newfoundland , like Alberta, depends largely on Natural Resources and it seems since we joined Canada they have mismanaged or taken away all our resources, not to mention some neighboring provinces take advatage of us. So, here we are with one major resource left and now the government decides to take that too. So, we get upset, because its being taken away, and because its non-renewable, it isnt going to be there forever.

Harper also made a direct promise to us, in parliament, that we should get control of our oil, and now he renegged on the promise. We could also really use that money, as we are the poorest Province in Confederation.

Now to expand on Danny's Attitude.  Danny is a rhode scholar, successful lawyer, and extremely successful businessman. He makes all the money in the world, and gives his paycheque to charity. He dosent need money, and arguably can get close to that amount of power, even more possibly, with his wealth. Anyways, hes a smart man, and knows how to get people to talk. We have had successive governments do just that: talk. They talk a moutful, but nothing ever gets done. Why should Ottawa care about Newfoundland ? We're only 7 seats to them. The whole reason they wanted Newfoundland in Confedeation was for resources, and theyre doing just that. When Martin didnt want to listen to our concerns, danny simply took down all the canadian flags. Danny has been hottin and hollering and it appears to have had some impact as the PM made a visit here on his own accord to shut danny up, and may have implied that hed give Marystown the shipping contract or more CF presence in Goose Bay, maybe, but not equalization. He may also try to raise the fortunes of the CPC in the area, which have been cut over 25% since danny's ABC campaign. Short, danny is getting Ottawa to listen, which is more than our last leaders did.


----------



## Sub_Guy (4 Apr 2008)

You are right, that is why we rigged the vote to get you guys in!   We wanted your resources!

If Danny the great wants to get people listening, have a vote, then leave!  

Besides its not Newfoundland's oil, its Canada's oil!  Show me a map with provincial boundries expanding out into the Ocean.  Your boundry ends where the rock meets the water.


----------



## Proud_Newfoundlander (4 Apr 2008)

How Trudeau'esque of you  

h, I suppose BC's forests are hers, and alberta's oil is hers, but our oil isnt.About the vote rigging, the difference was 7000 and there was vote rigging> I dont know how many ballots were in the boxes, so who knows ? You obviously wanted us, as the canadian government subsidized smallwoods Confederate association. A recent report also showed successionism on the rise. Anyways, back to the said topic


----------



## Bruce Monkhouse (4 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> they have mismanaged or taken away all our resources, not to mention some neighboring provinces take advatage of us.



How very "Modern Canadian" of you........even though I'm the one who signs a stupid deal, somehow I get to blame everyone but me.


----------



## Good2Golf (4 Apr 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> How very "Modern Canadian" of you........even though I'm the one who signs a stupid deal, somehow I get to blame everyone but me.



There are some who can prove it was all Toronto's fault...it usually is.  ;D


----------



## midgetcop (4 Apr 2008)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> There are some who can prove it was all Toronto's fault...it usually is.  ;D



**expresses Toronto-angst**


----------



## Proud_Newfoundlander (4 Apr 2008)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> How very "Modern Canadian" of you........even though I'm the one who signs a stupid deal, somehow I get to blame everyone but me.



Dont call me canadian.

Smallwood signed it, and Newfoundlanders only supported it because they wrongfully associated self rule with the depression and wanted better living conditions


----------



## Reccesoldier (4 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> In my view Newfoundland has every reason to be upset. Newfoundland , like Alberta, depends largely on Natural Resources



So far so good.



> and it seems since we joined Canada they have mismanaged or taken away all our resources,



Oops, now it's off into la-la land.  The agreement under which NL joined Confederation is a little thing now called the Constitution act of 1867.  This document is very stodgy and dry, there's not a whole lot of interesting verbiage in it like the US Constitution, not any great sweeping "We the people" or "life liberty and the persuit of Happiness" statements but what is does do, specifically and succinctly is divide up those things which are the realm of Provincial "ownership" if you will and those things which are "Federal" ownership.  

Really if the people and leadership of NL couldn't be bothered to read the document as far as Section 6 Article 91(12) which specifically gives the fishery to the federal government or conversely The Newfoundland Act which states in part 





> "The Province of Newfoundland and Labrador shall comprise the same *territory* as at the date of Union, that is to say, the *island* of Newfoundland *and the islands adjacent thereto*"


 *emphasis mine

Then you have no one to blame but your own people.  Newfoundlanders one and all.  



> not to mention some neighboring provinces take advatage of us.



So because the Province of NL negotiated a poor deal with regards to resources that it does own that is "another province taking advantage"?  Dear me place your blame where it belongs Proud Newfoundlander, right there at home in St Johns.



> So, here we are with one major resource left and now the government decides to take that too. So, we get upset, because its being taken away, and because its non-renewable, it isnt going to be there forever.


  Again read the document, NL does not, has not, and indeed did not ever, own the sea or any of the resources in it.



> Harper also made a direct promise to us, in parliament, that we should get control of our oil, and now he renegged on the promise. We could also really use that money, as we are the poorest Province in Confederation.


  

This has been done to death, so I won't respond to it again.  I'm on the record in this topic on it if you care to look it up.


----------



## Proud_Newfoundlander (4 Apr 2008)

No offence, your probably (maybe not) some guy living out a long ways from here.


Well, Quebec said we couldnt transport power over their territory unless they got most of it, so our hands were tied.


----------



## Reccesoldier (4 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> No offence, your probably (maybe not) some guy living out a long ways from here.
> 
> 
> Well, Quebec said we couldnt transport power over their territory unless they got most of it, so our hands were tied.



Where I live has nothing to do with it.  If Alberta's oil had been off shore they would not have had ownership of it.  Youkon, NWT and Nunavut will not "own" any of the vast oil and gas reserves located under the arctic ocean, the stuff under dry land is theirs except for the fact that Territories are not considered the same as provinces as per the Constitution act of 1867.  BC doesn't own their fishery.  

The law is the law and the Constitution is the grand daddy of them all.

There is always a work around, oceanic cables have been used for decades longer than Churchill falls has been around.  

I'm not a lawyer but what stops NL from persuing an alternate method of delivery now?  Hell, just start looking hard at it and watch how quickly Quebec starts talking about renegotiating the deal rather than being cut off.


----------



## Proud_Newfoundlander (4 Apr 2008)

Ok, first it isnt as easy as using cable, its very expensive and difficult. It was partly smallwoods fault, he was no lawyer. But Quebec clearly took advantage of us. It may have been different if we werent a province, it may have been a deal between country and country, not province and province.

Pfft, the constitution really needs fixing and well put out, and I would call it garbage if it didnt guarantee rights for creeds, race, sex and so on We really need parliamentry reform and less centralization. Confederation sucks if you're not Ontario and Quebec


----------



## Reccesoldier (4 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> Ok, first it isnt as easy as using cable, its very expensive and difficult. It was partly smallwoods fault, he was no lawyer. But Quebec clearly took advantage of us. It may have been different if we werent a province, it may have been a deal between country and country, not province and province.
> 
> Pfft, the constitution really needs fixing and well put out, and I would call it garbage if it didnt guarantee rights for creeds, race, sex and so on We really need parliamentry reform and less centralization. Confederation sucks if you're not Ontario and Quebec



there are two things you need to do in my opinion.  

1. Blame the people who signed a bad deal, not the ones that negotiated a good one in their self-interest.  By the way how do you think that a foreign country would have treated NL any better?   :rofl:

2. Learn the Constitution.  For crying out loud if you are going to complain about something do it right.  The Constitution of 1867 says NOTHING about human rights.  It makes (as I've already said) short work out of the legal arangements, it accounts for the division of powers, the branches and makeup of government the provision of elections and terms boundaries of the provinces etc but you have to wait untill 1982 to get to the Canadian Charter of rights and Freedoms, oops sorry, in 1960 The Canadian Bill of Rights was written... but it has since been replaced by the charter.


----------



## helpup (4 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> Ok, first it isn't as easy as using cable, its very expensive and difficult. It was partly smallwoods fault, he was no lawyer. But Quebec clearly took advantage of us. It may have been different if we were not a province, it may have been a deal between country and country, not province and province.
> 
> Pfft, the constitution really needs fixing and well put out, and I would call it garbage if it didnt guarantee rights for creeds, race, sex and so on We really need parliamentry reform and less centralization. Confederation sucks if you're not Ontario and Quebec


Partly Smallwoods fault ? 

I have been to Churchill and will be the first to say after I was amazed at the place that NFLD got screwed. but you just stated that it was partly Smallwoods fault , I am guessing you are inferring that other then that small part he got taken advantage of.  Trouble is elected officials are voted in and WE the people vote them in warts and all. The end result falls on to ......... well everyone in the Province who voted for him, didn't vote.  As for a difference if you were not "just a Province". I don't buy that for a second. Events at the time were leading up to being a part of Canada, the US or staying with England. One or the other as NFLD did not have the ability to go an independent nation ( IMHO ) England was fresh from an expensive war and trying time rebuilding. America was looking else way and well Canada was right beside you.

Could you of avoided joining, I have not doubt I know allot of NFLDers and their characters. But honestly at the time and for the present it was and IMHO the best option.  I dint agree with the Fed representation formula but it is what it is. I don't like that the Fisheries are messed up, that Churchill falls benefit Quebec more then the originators. But life tends to be a pendulum and all things come around.

I am from NS and hey at one time they were the powerhose of a new country called Canada. Not anymore and for the Gas/ oil and fish stuff they have their own problems to look at. But as for better off on our own thoughts... nah that is not really there. Mind you seeind a Super Atlantic Province would be an interesting idea. \

Bye the bye I will be the first to point out that there is a huge amount the the CF that is from the Maritimes or was when I joined. That in my neck of the woods is starting to level out. But one thing I was always proud of is the ability of those Down Easterner's to perform in the day to day service of Their Country


----------



## X-mo-1979 (5 Apr 2008)

Reccesoldier said:
			
		

> Oops, now it's off into la-la land.  The agreement under which NL joined Confederation is a little thing now called the Constitution act of 1867.  This document is very stodgy and dry, there's not a whole lot of interesting verbiage in it like the US Constitution, not any great sweeping "We the people" or "life liberty and the persuit of Happiness" statements but what is does do, specifically and succinctly is divide up those things which are the realm of Provincial "ownership" if you will and those things which are "Federal" ownership.



Really?1867?
I thought it was the term's of union in 1949.


----------



## Reccesoldier (5 Apr 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Really?1867?
> I thought it was the term's of union in 1949.



the NL Act refers directly to the Constitution Act of 1867 or if you prefer The British North America Act.  that is the document that breaks down who "owns" what, and that was the source of Proud_Newfoundlander's bitching.



> APPLICATION OF THE CONSTITUTION ACTS
> 
> 3. The Constitution Acts, 1867 to 1940, shall apply to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in the same way, and to the like extent as they apply to the provinces heretofore comprised in Canada, as if the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador had been one of the provinces originally united except in so far as varied by these Terms and except such provisions as are in terms made or by reasonable intendment may be held to be specially applicable to or only to affect one or more and not all of the provinces originally united.


----------



## X-mo-1979 (5 Apr 2008)

No need for name calling.
Is it possiable to have a discussion around here lately?

Thanks for quote however.


----------



## Reccesoldier (5 Apr 2008)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> No need for name calling.
> Is it possiable to have a discussion around here lately?
> 
> Thanks for quote however.



I called no one names.


----------



## xo31@711ret (5 Apr 2008)

I first & foremost call myself a PROUD (serving) Canadian of 24+years in uniform. I am also damn proud to be a Newfoundlander and still call it 'home', even though I have been gone since '82 when I left for Cornwallis. Read your history on Churchill and Newfoundland. I am no fan of Joey, but in a nutshell, Smallwood did look into trying to run a line east through Labrador and across the straight to the northern pensinsula of the island; way too expensive and no takers. Joey had no choice but to make a deal with Quebec.
Do I blame Quebec? nope, they got a great deal. And I'm bettin' Danny or successive NL premiers won't (have to) make such a sh**ty deal again.


----------



## Proud_Newfoundlander (5 Apr 2008)

I suppose the constitution in 1982 was all in my head. I believe we had a "terms" of Union on as well
Im not proud to be  a canadian, and if we could manage economically quite well on our own I would say seperate, but to seperate npw isnt very smart.

Newfoundland is part of Canada now, so might as well make the best of it. I find so interesting how willing some province are willing to take money, but so unwillign to give it once they become rich, or "have provinces" as they say


----------



## Reccesoldier (5 Apr 2008)

Proud_Newfoundlander said:
			
		

> I suppose the constitution in 1982 was all in my head. I believe we had a "terms" of Union on as well



Have you actually read any of what I've posted here?  

The constitution act of 1982 is the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It has nothing to do with the subject of your angst.  As I've already pointed out the real document referred to in the Newfoundland Act of 1949 was the British North America Act also known as The Constitution Act of 1867 or more widely as "The Constitution" though our constitution is not a single document as you may have gathered from the preceding paragraph.  Our Constitution was repatriated in 1982, but it wasn't created then.



> I'm not proud to be  a canadian,


  Goody for you.  So you decided to come to a site on the web filled with soldiers, sailors, Airmen and patriots (but I repeat myself) and complain without ever availing yourself of any real knowledge of the subject?  Well done. 



> Newfoundland is part of Canada now, so might as well make the best of it. I find so interesting how willing some province are willing to take money, but so unwillign to give it once they become rich, or "have provinces" as they say


 :rofl: No doubt the irony of your statement escapes you. 

I'd like to take this moment to point out that NL will very shortly be a "have province" and if the spendthrift government of Ontario doesn't get it's fiscal act together it will become a "have not province" and you and the rest of NL can start paying for Dalton McGinty's liberal spending habits.  Generous welfare programs, corporate bailouts, grants to industry, safe injection sites and all the rest.  Welcome to Confederation Proud_Newfoundlander


----------



## Franko (5 Apr 2008)

Back on topic troops.

* Proud_Newfoundlander* ... If your resorting to name calling, telling other members to STFU etc, I'll suggest that you take some time off the site and relax. 

If you keep it up you'll be on the ramp....for trolling.

*The Army.ca Staff*


----------

