# Joining the reserve as an officer versus joining as an NCM



## Mileender (15 Dec 2004)

Can someone answer this question for me? I'd like to join the reserve as an officer, but I'm interested in the engineers, and my degree isn't in engineering, so I'd have to join as an NCM. The only place I can join as an officer would be the infantry, which I'm less interested in. What are the pros and cons? Would it be better to join the engineers, which I'm really interested in, as an NCM, or the infantry as an officer? Also, I'm in my 30s - that's something to keep in mind.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## Inch (15 Dec 2004)

If you have a degree, you're not restricted to infantry, you can join just about anything. I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about engineers, but I do know some AEREs (Aerospace Engineers) that don't have engineering degrees.

If you're doing it part time, I'd say go with what you'll enjoy. In fact, that'd be my advice even if you were going Reg. If you hate your job, what good is the money?

Cheers


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## aesop081 (15 Dec 2004)

All the engineer officers that i ahve worked for/ met / instructed had degrees in civil engineering, chemical engineering, environmental engineering or mechanical engineering.  I do beleive an engineering degree is a requirement for the Engineer officer MOC (24) and airfield engineer (46)


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## Gilligan (15 Dec 2004)

There's always the option of joining the engineers as an NCM, have them help you get through school (up to $2000/year in the reserves....although I think there was recently a change to the program, you'd have to look it up if you're interested), and then commission from the ranks, because don't forget, you can be OCdt while in school, and you'll get your commission once you finish your degree.


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## aesop081 (15 Dec 2004)

Just remember that comissioning from the ranks is not simply a matter of sticking your hand up and saying " i want to CFR" !!


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## Gilligan (16 Dec 2004)

Well no, I didn't mean to imply that, I simply meant it as a suggestion.  If that is what they want, then what's the extra legwork to achieve it?


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## Mileender (17 Dec 2004)

I already have my degree, and no plans to go back to university. How hard would it be to become an officer once you've joined as an NCM? What does it involve, how long does it take?


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## Meridian (17 Dec 2004)

Out of curiosity, why do you want to be an officer?  By that I mean, what abou the specific leadership roles of officers do you like, versus the roles NCM's fulfill?

It may help us help you a bit if we understand more what you want to do (and not do) in the forces.

Cheers


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## Mileender (17 Dec 2004)

Well, I'm older - I'm in my late 30s, and I worry that I won't get along with my fellow NCMs because they'll be so much younger.

But basically, I don't know - I don't have a clear idea of what it's like to be an officer vs an NCM. I get the impression that being an officer, you might have more choices or more leeway in how you shape your career. Any thoughts on this?


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## Meridian (17 Dec 2004)

Plenty of young snot-nosed junior officers out there too, Im told.   (Constantly reminded of, more like it hehe)

As for how an older person feels just coming in.... well, you may feel a bit younger during Basic, etc... but hitting your trade I doubt that you will find it as great of an issue.

Being an officer doesnt automatically mean you are that much more mature...  (one would hope, but).....

*shrug*. Id choose the right career fit first, and then decide if being an officer or an ncm fits that better.


Do you want to be a leader? Do you want to do much less of the actual taskings, and much more paperwork?

Probably best option for you would be to research your careers, say Image Tech... and either call up a PAO (their names and often numbers are on the DND website on PRs)  or call a CFRC and ask if you can have a telephone chat with an ImageTech.

You can also ask to speak with a recruiting officer, and get a feel for what their job is...

Or as one of the many on here


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## aesop081 (17 Dec 2004)

Mileender said:
			
		

> Well, I'm older - I'm in my late 30s, and I worry that I won't get along with my fellow NCMs because they'll be so much younger.



The average age of NCM recruits the days is higher than you may think, certainly higher than the average age of new officer recruits ( most are fresh out of HS)


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## Mileender (17 Dec 2004)

I feel dumb asking this... but what's an Image Tech? What's a PAO?


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## aesop081 (17 Dec 2004)

Imagery tech are basicaly the photographers of the CF

PAO's are public affairs officers


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## Inch (17 Dec 2004)

Public Affairs Officers are also commonly referred to as PAFFO's.


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## mdh (17 Dec 2004)

Hi Mileender,

I've read your thread with some interest as I am an older guy who recently signed up again after a mere 20-year hiatus from the militiia.  The points raised above are good ones in determining what role you want to play.  If you're interested in engineering I think it might be a stretch to expect a commissi- from- the- ranks (CFR) into an officer slot in a reserve combat engineer regiment - it could be a long and frustrating process for you.  As for Infantry - again you need to be sure that's what you want to do because there is a major physical requirement in getting the job done. However, there are other officer jobs in engineer and infantry regiments - many units require logistics officers, for example, to help support the unit's operations - especially in finance, administration, and public affairs (my own particular speciality).  I don't know where you are located but there may be other units such as a service battaltion which is looking for logisitics officers.  As for something like image tech - sounds good, but there are very slots available for it in the militia world for that trade.  As a degreed candidate chances are a recruiter will urge you into a leadership position, but ask them what they think a person of your talents can to do make a contribution to the unit.  Trust me they will tell you, cheers, mdh


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## Mileender (17 Dec 2004)

Thanks very much, mdh. It's good to hear from someone who understands where I'm coming from. It's been a real dilemma for me. I should say that when I first started thinking about joining the res, I heard about a res intelligence company that's based in the city where I live (Montreal). It seemed like it was up my alley, since I have some foreign languages and a lot of foreign experience, and I've felt since I moved here a couple of years ago that there's really no demand for that sort of thing here. I spoke to the intelligence company, and they told me that they do indeed need people with foreign languages and experience. But they said I had to do at least a year in the regular reserve, and acquire an MOC, before I could apply to transfer to intelligence. That got me thinking about where I wanted to enlist, and in what capacity. I went to a few recruiting sessions at various companies, and I liked what I saw at the engineers. But in the end, my goal would be to transfer into intelligence later. Would I have a better chance as an NCM with the engineers, or as an officer with the infantry? 

It's hard to know what to do. I'm not even sure whether, having been in the ordinary reserve, I'll even want to transfer after a year. Any thoughts? I have to say that I don't even know what they do in intelligence (I've posted on another forum to try to find out...)


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## mdh (17 Dec 2004)

Hi Mileender,

Although as an army guy I shouldn't be doing this,  there is another alternative with the Navy Reserve, they has just re-vamped their naval control of shipping occupation to naval intelligence officer.  If you're just interested in the intelligence world that's a good place to get a start - here is a link http://www.navres.dnd.ca/navres/HQ-QG/recrut/description-off/082_e.htm - there is a naval reserve unit in Montreal, just follow the other parts of the web site and look it up.  The only downside is that the navy time requirement for training is enormous - something lilke 3.5 months every summer for three summers in a row - although the training is mostly in Quebec City (wht exception is Esquimalt for basic naval environmental training). Otherwise army intelligence at the reserve level is a little tough to crack, hope that helps, mdh


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## mdh (17 Dec 2004)

ps watch watch out for the multiple posts on the same topic on different boards, the moderators aren't fond of the practice, cheers, mdh


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## Mileender (18 Dec 2004)

I see what you mean. Thanks again, mdh. I'm going to see if I can arrange to visit before I file my enlistment papers.


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