# Any word on Officer trade numbers?



## liampcryan (12 Apr 2012)

Hello,

Wondering if the recruiting numbers have been released yet for 2012, specifically for officers?

Thanks

Liam


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## aesop081 (12 Apr 2012)

The CFRCs have the numbers, yes.


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## NSDreamer (12 Apr 2012)

My PLAR went through and I know the board for selection for my case at least is sitting this month (Log O) Hopefully offers go out soon!


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## Trick (12 Apr 2012)

Your most reliable source would probably be the National Recruiting Center. At least for my trade, people seem to be hearing different things from different RCs. Maybe that's because people are at different stages in the process, I don't know. I'd say just call the NB office about any trade you're interested in. Your application has to go through there first anyways.


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## agc (12 Apr 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> Your most reliable source would probably be the office that holds your file, ie your local recruiting det or the National Recruiting Center.


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## MKos (12 Apr 2012)

THIS :warstory:


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## matthew1786 (13 Apr 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> The CFRCs have the numbers, yes.



Curious, do they publicize these numbers?


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2012)

matthew1786 said:
			
		

> Curious, do they publicize these numbers?



You would have to ask a CFRC.........which was the point of my response.


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## Pusser (13 Apr 2012)

Small point, but officers don't have "trades."  Officers are professionals.  We used to say that NCMs had "trades" and officers had "classifications."  Now, we all have "military occupations."


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## aesop081 (13 Apr 2012)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Officers are professionals.



Yes, as the "Leadership and ethics" OPME like to emphasise, multiple times, using one definition of "professional".


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## dapaterson (13 Apr 2012)

And this guy is a professional as well.


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## Trick (13 Apr 2012)

Just got the word that Infantry, Armour, and Artillery DEO are all closed at this time.


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## matthew1786 (13 Apr 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> Just got the word that Infantry, Armour, and Artillery DEO are all closed at this time.



What is your source?


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## knownothing89 (13 Apr 2012)

matthew1786 said:
			
		

> What is your source?



Yeah Infantry, Artillery and Armour DEO are closed. I visited a recruitment office last week and they showed me an expansive list of open/closed trades that was last updated either Mar 16th or Mar 27th.

They said they update the list weekly though, so calling weekly to see if the relevant trades is open is a good thing.


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## Trick (13 Apr 2012)

matthew1786 said:
			
		

> What is your source?



National Recruiting Center. He said he has no idea whether or not it'll open up this year- he kind of implied no one knows what future numbers will be like. I wouldn't hold my breath for this fiscal year at least though.


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## estoguy (16 Apr 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> National Recruiting Center. He said he has no idea whether or not it'll open up this year- he kind of implied no one knows what future numbers will be like. I wouldn't hold my breath for this fiscal year at least though.



I got the same info this morning when I called in.  The recruiter did say that they haven't received the updated intake list yet, so it MIGHT change.


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## maxmuscle (17 Apr 2012)

liampcryan,

I called  a few days ago (12-Apr-12) and I was informed that Cbt Arms, INT O, MPO, and LOG O were full at the moment. Pilot was still accepting applications, along with several of the Engineering based trades and other Health Service trades. 

Cheers


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## stank101 (18 Apr 2012)

Do you think the best timing to apply as a DEO is in May or June because the semester at RMC is done and the graduates make their choice for their trade? (I dont know the process if you're from the RMC). Maybe the CF will be able to evaluate their need for combat arms for example and then define the number of DEO they'll need?!? Recruiting center told me the same than you guys, every trades are closed except pilot but i forgot to ask that question about the best timing.


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## therickiness (19 Apr 2012)

Yea, super lame. When DEO spots are open, people from previous merit list and just applied is going to be piled together in the selection. More people and less spot.


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## ken.w2402 (20 Apr 2012)

I'm currently on the Merit List for Infantry Officer (DEO). Some of you might be tempted to knock me on the head... I actually got a call last January offering me a spot on the BMOQ course starting on Feb. 13th, but I refused the offer because I had just been promoted to a rather important manager position at this company, and I thought it would’ve been disrespectful to quit immediately after such a generous promotion.

So anyway, I told the recruiter to call me back in the Spring, after I've made some significant contributions at my current job. As of my last communication with my recruiter two weeks ago, I was told that the only infantry officer positions left - and as a matter of fact, most of other officer positions left - are strictly for ROTP’s. 

This could change at any time however, as they are constantly updating their list of vacancies. I’m not sure whether I should believe this, but apparently I will be among the first to be called as soon as positions free up. Thus, if you’ve been waiting for a while and are on the merit list, anything can happen in the coming days/months.


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## dapaterson (20 Apr 2012)

Remember, ROTP and DEO address two different time frames of requirements.

An ROTP officer will be employable five years from now - four years in school one year in training.  A DEO is for next year - one year in training and they're employable.

Thus, a shortfall in ROTP intake this year usually won't translate into increased DEO intake until 3-4 years from now.


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## jwtg (20 Apr 2012)

stank101 said:
			
		

> Do you think the best timing to apply as a DEO is in May or June because the semester at RMC is done and the graduates make their choice for their trade? (I dont know the process if you're from the RMC).


dapaterson made the first point, about how DEO/ROTP recruit for different time frames.

Second point, or to deal with the above quote specifically, RMC cadets generally have their MOSID already.  In the past few years they've experimented with recruiting cadets and then assigning them their trades mid-year or at the end of the year, but I believe that experiment is over (for now at least) because first years now come to RMC with their trade already assigned.  I believe, based on the chatter in the ROTP forum, that that is also happening for this upcoming year.

So....no, the semester ending at RMC should have no effect on DEO spots.


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## Trick (20 Apr 2012)

That said, I don't think DEO spots are directly tied to ROTP either. While I obviously have no inside knowledge of the system, they could very likely always fill up every officer position with ROTP applicants (though perhaps not of the highest quality) if they really wanted to. So I don't think DEO is simply a means of filling positions that haven't been filled ROTP- that would be a pretty dumb recruitment system.

That's not so say I'd expect a bunch of DEO spots in the near future (I would expect to wait a while), but I don't think it's directly linked to ROTP.

EDIT: What dapeterson said is worth remembering though: an ROTP candidate for say Infantry Officer is not an Infantry Officer. He just will be one in up to 5 years. So for ROTP they're really hiring for future needs, no current ones.


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## ken.w2402 (30 Apr 2012)

I just called the National Recruitment Centre this morning and was told that Infantry, Armour and Pilot professions have all been opened as of April 26th... I would guess that the same might apply for many other officer positions.

THAT call could arrive at any time now, provided that you're on the merit list.


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## Trick (30 Apr 2012)

I can confirm that, I was told that Inf O (and I think he was implying my other choices, Armour O, Arty O) have opened. He wouldn't give me any idea of numbers, and I didn't ask about selection dates though.


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## ken.w2402 (30 Apr 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> I can confirm that, I was told that Inf O (and I think he was implying my other choices, Armour O, Arty O) have opened. He wouldn't give me any idea of numbers, and I didn't ask about selection dates though.



http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/menu/cfc-ecc/dc-cd/index-eng.asp

According to the CFLRS site, the next courses for DEO candidates are happening on May 7th (English only), May 14th (English and French) and August 20th (English only) (N.b.: platoon numbers starting with M are 11-weeks long and those starting with L last 15 weeks, hence I figured the latter are the DEO courses). I personally wouldn't hold my breath for the May courses, but August 20th seems rather plausible.

This said, I dropped by the Montreal RC at noon to inquire further about these recently opened professions and, to my surprise, the recruiter had no idea that Inf O just opened up... there's got to be some informational discrepancy between the National Recruitment Centre and the local ones.


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## Trick (30 Apr 2012)

yeah it's a pretty recent change. The word I'm hearing though is that there are very few spots.


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## 2010newbie (30 Apr 2012)

ken.w2402 said:
			
		

> http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/menu/cfc-ecc/dc-cd/index-eng.asp
> 
> According to the CFLRS site, the next courses for DEO candidates are happening on May 7th (English only), May 14th (English and French) and August 20th (English only) (N.b.: platoon numbers starting with M are 11-weeks long and those starting with L last 15 weeks, hence I figured the latter are the DEO courses).



This is not a correct assumption. ROTP OCdts attending civy university also have the 15 week BMOQ. Last year we had 3 leadership platoons start and end at the same time and only one was DEO. Actually IIRC out of the 5 leadership platoons that started in the first couple weeks of May, only one was DEO.


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## ken.w2402 (30 Apr 2012)

2010newbie said:
			
		

> This is not a correct assumption. ROTP OCdts attending civy university also have the 15 week BMOQ. Last year we had 3 leadership platoons start and end at the same time and only one was DEO. Actually IIRC out of the 5 leadership platoons that started in the first couple weeks of May, only one was DEO.



Yes I'm aware of what you're saying there. I should have been more specific; what I meant is that, while ROTP's could be in either, DEO candidates necessarily attend the 15-week course, thus ruling out the M-platoons.


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## estoguy (1 May 2012)

Inf O, Arty O and Armour O are open, but extremely low numbers. (3, 3, 12).  This was according to the list generation on April 26, saw this at the RC prior to my interview yesterday (which I passed for pilot and armour o., medical next week!)


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## Bigm (1 May 2012)

3, 3, 12 nationwide or just in your local area?


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## Trick (1 May 2012)

Someone who knows this stuff better would be able to answer this, but those numbers seem awfully low. Why would the run a course for 3 Inf O's? Or maybe they just expect them to wait forever for their courses?


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## dapaterson (1 May 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> Someone who knows this stuff better would be able to answer this, but those numbers seem awfully low. Why would the run a course for 3 Inf O's? Or maybe they just expect them to wait forever for their courses?



DEO numbers only.  There are ROTP in the pipeline already who also need training.


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## aesop081 (1 May 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> Why would the run a course for 3 Inf O's? Or maybe they just expect them to wait forever for their courses?



Who knows why but if thats what they are taking, who are you to question that ?


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## ken.w2402 (1 May 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> Someone who knows this stuff better would be able to answer this, but those numbers seem awfully low. Why would the run a course for 3 Inf O's? Or maybe they just expect them to wait forever for their courses?



I'm laughing tragically right now looking at those numbers... considering I'm in for the Van Doos, my chances are probably even slimmer as they'll have to fit me into a French platoon, god knows when that'll pop up.


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## Trick (1 May 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Who knows why but if thats what they are taking, who are you to question that ?



I'm questioning if those numbers are the national numbers or not. Rumours fly all over the place in the recruiting forum. As for the ROTP candidates- can't they only train in the summers?


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## aesop081 (1 May 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> Rumours fly all over the place in the recruiting forum.



I hadn't noticed  :


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## dapaterson (1 May 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> I'm questioning if those numbers are the national numbers or not. Rumours fly all over the place in the recruiting forum. As for the ROTP candidates- can't they only train in the summers?



ROTP candidates eventually graduate and go on to complete their training.


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## aesop081 (1 May 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> ROTP candidates eventually graduate and go on to complete their training.



Really ?

I could have sworn from reading on here that they went on to graduate studies right away.

 :dunno:


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## Trick (1 May 2012)

Oh ok, my mistake. I was under the impression that ROTP candidates did their occupational training in the summers so that they were job-ready upon graduation.


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## jwtg (1 May 2012)

Trick said:
			
		

> Oh ok, my mistake. I was under the impression that ROTP candidates did their occupational training in the summers so that they were job-ready upon graduation.


In a perfect world, that would be the case, as well as every skill that they acquire would be 100% non-perishable.

ROTP Cadets generally complete BMOQ during their summer after 1st year.  After that, it could be anything.  Many will do SLT for one or two summers in order to get their BBB profile.  Bilingualism trumps phase training.  People get injured, people switch trades, or any other of a number of factors can cause ROTP cadets to graduate without having completed their phase training.  Many courses (ACSO, for example) are way too long to do in one summer.  So what people here are getting at is that there could be InfO candidates waiting for phase 3 or 4, or even CAP, after graduating RMC/Civ U.


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## Trick (1 May 2012)

Right, my bad, I was thinking about it too simplistically. In that context, I guess the small numbers make sense.


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## seawolf (1 May 2012)

Well All I know is today my file got transferred from CFNRC to CFRC Hamilton as all three of my trades DEO LogO, Armor O and ACSO are all open at the moment.

here's hoping I can get the CFAT, Medical and Interview scheduled quickly.

Mike


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## Trick (1 May 2012)

good luck!


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## NSDreamer (1 May 2012)

seawolf said:
			
		

> Well All I know is today my file got transferred from CFNRC to CFRC Hamilton as all three of my trades DEO LogO, Armor O and ACSO are all open at the moment.
> 
> here's hoping I can get the CFAT, Medical and Interview scheduled quickly.
> 
> Mike



 Indeed good luck!

 I'm hoping for good news on Log-O when I go in to work on Thursday myself!


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## Rahul (2 May 2012)

Yeah, the numbers are confirmed 12 for Armour Officer [DEO] and 3 for Infantry Officer [DEO].
These are also the national selection numbers. 

Sighhh... I've been waiting for 3 years already... It's more of a Lottery now.
Best of luck to everyone.


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## ken.w2402 (2 May 2012)

Rahul said:
			
		

> Yeah, the numbers are confirmed 12 for Armour Officer [DEO] and 3 for Infantry Officer [DEO].
> These are also the national selection numbers.
> 
> Sighhh... I've been waiting for 3 years already... It's more of a Lottery now.
> Best of luck to everyone.



If this is of any consolation, these numbers aren't set in stone. This fiscal year has barely just begun, there will be other selections in the coming months. Looking on the positive side of things, one can take advantage of the summer to get in better shape. That call will eventually come, it certainly won't hurt to be prepared!


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## Rahul (3 May 2012)

> If this is of any consolation, these numbers aren't set in stone. This fiscal year has barely just begun, there will be other selections in the coming months. Looking on the positive side of things, one can take advantage of the summer to get in better shape. That call will eventually come, it certainly won't hurt to be prepared!



Yeah, I your are right, there is still hope. And the summer will make getting into even better shape lot easier and fun. I guess I've waited for 3 years, a few months more shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the pep talk Ken


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## jemcgrg (3 May 2012)

I'm in the same boat. This is my third year. I was hoping to be gone in the spring but looks like I'll be waiting at least until August assuming all goes well. Interview is the next step.


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## The_Falcon (3 May 2012)

ken.w2402 said:
			
		

> there's got to be some informational discrepancy between the National Recruitment Centre and the local ones.



There is no discrepancy.  

CFRG in Borden in consultation with CMP in Ottawa and the various trade/occupation managing authorities, set out the hiring numbers.  The various local CFRCs and Dets DO NOT, I SAY AGAIN DO NOT, report to, or get information from the CFNRCC in North Bay,  they are merely the "national" centre because they deal with all online files across the country.  

If a recruiter, file manager, MCC doesn't know the latest and greatest hiring numbers, its because they have either been too busy or too lazy to check them.  The number are updated weekly and everyone in a CFRC has access to them.  Whether or not everyone checks them is an individual responsibility.


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## ken.w2402 (4 Jun 2012)

Quick heads up people:

I had a little phone chat with my RC this morning and was told that the selection for Infantry Officer is to take place next Monday, June 11th. If it's still just 3 DEO spots, I reckon it won't take too long.

Good luck to all concerned.


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## PuckChaser (4 Jun 2012)

ken.w2402 said:
			
		

> If it's still just 3 DEO spots, I reckon it won't take too long.



If there's 2,000 files, they have to go through each one and score it, make a short list and then pick the 3 candidates from those 2,000 files. Don't bet on a quick answer.


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## ken.w2402 (4 Jun 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> If there's 2,000 files, they have to go through each one and score it, make a short list and then pick the 3 candidates from those 2,000 files. Don't bet on a quick answer.



Aren't they just choosing from the existing merit list top down? Just asking.


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## PuckChaser (4 Jun 2012)

Depends on how the meriting system works. When we do promotion boards, good scores get you to the board, and then you are ranked by the members of the board based on your file, your evaluation, and other factors. Its not an automated process.


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## The_Falcon (4 Jun 2012)

ken.w2402 said:
			
		

> Aren't they just choosing from the existing merit list top down? Just asking.



Yes, top down merit listing.


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## ken.w2402 (21 Jun 2012)

Hi all,

I just got the call from my RC informing me that I have been selected for Infantry Officer. My BMOQ is to start on October 29th, 2012.

Anyone else?


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