# When in uniform...



## RiflemanPhil (18 Oct 2005)

What does one do when one is in uniform and is being harrassed. For example, civilians around you mocking yourself, the army and vets, and pulling your beret and flags off, or spitting on you. What actions can one take in these situations?


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## armyvern (18 Oct 2005)

Spitting on you? Well they'd really deserve a nice quick throat punch....but then again.. you're in uniform.
I'd wager a bet an assault charge by the local authorities would stick.

After all, imagine if they spit on the police, grabbed them etc?


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## RiflemanPhil (18 Oct 2005)

So basically once they spit than you can charge them, but anything else, like the beret and flags and  stuff-->just suck it up? Damn shame that this country is so disrespectful. I don't mind the stuff to me as much as insulting the veterans. There are definetely times I would love to create laws making pacifism illegal


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## George Wallace (18 Oct 2005)

In most cases just ignore them.  However, when it comes to their grabbing your kit or parts of your uniform, there will be some allowances within the Law.  You are, like any 'Citizen', allowed to defend yourself within the confines of the Law.  You could perform a 'Citizen's Arrest' should it be warranted.  You may want to read up on "Unlawful Detainment" and "Use of Force", to keep yourself  out of jail.


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## Part-Timer (18 Oct 2005)

I know a guy who this happened to. He was spat upon by a large group of "peace protesters" who also uttered death threats to him. He did the smart thing, and walked away (he was by himself). Armyvern is right, though. If you can ID the individuals, then a call to the police is definitely in order. Keep your chain of command informed, too.


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## RiflemanPhil (18 Oct 2005)

Alright, will do, thanks


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## Carbon-14 (18 Oct 2005)

Is that a hypothetical situation or did that actually happen??  I've never experienced anything like that, infact quite the opposite.

I think if you have to go anywhere in uniform try to go in groups.  People that would do something like at are usually cowards and act quite differently when they're outnumbered


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## combat_medic (18 Oct 2005)

I've never been spat on, but have had people throw stuff at my car, shout "baby killer" at me, or just generally be verbally abusive (it was worse when I used to take public transit to Reserves). I've noticed it's only here in Vancouver though. Everywhere else I've been with the military, they've been very positive. As far as dealing with it, short of assault, which hasn't happened, I usually just ignore it or laugh about it.


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## Freddy Chef (19 Oct 2005)

Assault is any unwanted contact/touching, or projectile, spitting inclusive. For assault, get the police involved, soonest. To communicate that a suspect's behaviour is unwanted; a "NO!" in your best parade square voice, is effective. 

If the suspect continues, in spite of your communications, "use of force to stop an assault" is within the Criminal Code of Canada. *armyvern*'s what "they'd really deserve" is an effective way of "stopping" a suspect, ruining the shine on your toe cap, by kicking a suspect in the groin, is also an effective way of "stopping" them.

You'll just have to explain to the police, and your unit's chain of command, your circumstance (and the method of "stopping them", should you choose that option).


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## armyvern (19 Oct 2005)

Freddy Chef said:
			
		

> *armyvern*'s what "they'd really deserve" is an effective way of "stopping" a suspect, ruining the shine on your toe cap, by kicking a suspect in the groin, is also an effective way of "stopping" them.
> You'll just have to explain to the police, and your unit's chain of command, your circumstance (and the method of "stopping them", should you choose that option).



I think if he went with the step 2 (after ensuring he proceeds with step 1 *"NO!!"*) that you have suggested, I suggest that'd I'd have a pretty easy time justifying the free replacement of his shoes at Clothing Stores!!  ;D


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## Tpr.Orange (19 Oct 2005)

Ive had the name calling and the insults but never a finger laid on me or spit for that matter. In toronto the reaction to the forces is mixed. Im not going to say everyone out there is disrespectful. Infact its quite the opposite but like many situations there are a couple of bad seeds that ruin the setting. Usually if the person makes a verbal threat.. Ill raise my voice to let them know im not taking their "joke" lightly and if the continue i attempt to walk away and if that doesn't work, police involvement and if it becomes a physical threat, I'll do whatever it takes to protect myself, my family, and my fellow troops.

What area are you located in if you dont mind me asking?


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## JBP (19 Oct 2005)

You're allowed to "defend yourself" physically if someone is acting "in a threatening manner" and in you're personal space. So if they're even threatening any physical violence and come close to you, techincally you can push them away, give them a whack etc... But that's a very large grey area... And you know how the press is with the military!!!

You can only claim self defence if you only engage in physical violence to end the situation, and not pursue it. In otherwords, punch them once if they touch you, DON'T punch again, unless they punch you etc... Always remember, warn them verbally and clearly several times and DURING you're choice of action that they are to cease and desist thier harrassing actions towards you. 

Anyway,

Joe
PS> Goodluck! Avoid the area you ran into them last if possible...


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## RiflemanPhil (20 Oct 2005)

Ya this did happen to me, i'm in the r wpg rif, and was taking transit to the armoury, some native teens. Some other white people were jokin around and stuff too though. Unfortunately can't id them


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## PPCLI Guy (20 Oct 2005)

Some punks were dissing me once on the subway in TO - which suprised me, because I am a rather large fellow.  I simply said rather loudly that "if they weren't going to respect the uniform, they might want to respect the fact that I am big enough and mean enough to rip out their hearts and shit in the hole".  They moved to the other end of the subway car, and another civilian offered me a seat...

Dave


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## Slim (20 Oct 2005)

I can just imagine you doing that too! ;D 

Hats off to you sir!

Slim


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## Infanteer (20 Oct 2005)

Now -that- was a good one.   :cheers:


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## armyvern (20 Oct 2005)

Yes very good. I would have liked to be a witness to that!!


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## Danjanou (20 Oct 2005)

Good one boss, I can just see you doing that too 

(For those who have yet to have the privledge of meeting him, PPCLI guy is rather large, kind of like a grizzly bear in a rugby shirt.)


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## Conquistador (20 Oct 2005)

Good show PPCLI Guy.

This info may have came in useful awhile ago. I was in cadets at the time, anly about 13-14, and had to transfer busses in downtown Hamilton to get to my corps. For about every 10 people who game me weired stares, there was one who actually went out of their day to mock me. I just laughed it off, from the look of them, they had the IQ no greater than a kidney stone.

A more serious incident happened when I finished volunteering for the Around The Bay 30K roadrace, and I was in my combats. I was walking to the bus in the downtown core, when some crazy dude just totally flipped out when he saw me, and started yelling something about how people look after "military men" but not for him.

It's kinda sad, really.


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## RiflemanPhil (20 Oct 2005)

I agree, it is upsetting that with such a beautiful country all the citizens cannot behave like good citizens should


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Oct 2005)

When being harassed [ and in a safe area] just have a camera [working or non-working] and "take" their pictures,....one would be amazed at how fast this kind of bravado dissappears when the anonymity could be gone....


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## Haggis (20 Oct 2005)

*PPCLI Guy*:  Why doesn't that surprise me??? ;D

On my way to pick up coffee, in uniform, I walked by a group "gentlemen", one of whom stepped out and blocked my entrance to Timmys (bad idea).  He said "Kill anybody today, soldier boy?" and got right in my face.  I replied "Day ain't over yet!" 

After a short silence, his buddies were killing themselves laughing at him.


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## Slim (21 Oct 2005)

Haggis said:
			
		

> *PPCLI Guy*:   Why doesn't that surprise me??? ;D
> 
> On my way to pick up coffee, in uniform, I walked by a group "gentlemen", one of whom stepped out and blocked my entrance to Timmys (bad idea).   He said "Kill anybody today, soldier boy?" and got right in my face.   I replied "Day ain't over yet!"
> 
> After a short silence, his buddies were killing themselves laughing at him.



Goddamn that's funny! ;D Glad we can stand up to these peope...Its exactly what they need...They think that getting in your face is face because we won't respond!

So the next time someone 'gets in your face' and says "how's it feel to kill someone?!" You say

"Slight recoil and a small pull to the left!" :sniper:

Cheers 

Slim


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## Haggis (21 Oct 2005)

Slim said:
			
		

> So the next time someone 'gets in your face' and says "how's it feel to kill someone?!" You say
> 
> "Slight recoil and a small pull to the left!" :sniper:



LMAO!!

Unfortunately I now work at NDHQ and go to work most days in DEU, not CADPAT.  Since I now wear a kilt, in an attempt to embarress ME,  I'm often asked "What's worn under your kilt?"  My usual reply is "Shoes, socks and some talcum powder on hot days."  

Politically correct, mostly unoffensive and gets a red face from the questioner 99% of the time!


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## Sig_Des (21 Oct 2005)

I've never really faced anything that bad in Ottawa Region. Sometimes you'll hear people making jokes on the bus, but usually a mean glare works well.

I also find that people are more comfortable if you're wearing CF's as opposed to combats.


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## Danjanou (21 Oct 2005)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> I also find that people are more comfortable if you're wearing CF's as opposed to combats.



Were you wearing your forage cap? Maybe they thought you were a bus driver?  

Sorry couldn't resist 8) I'll crawl back into my hole now.

Seriously I would think in Ottawa or say Halifax where the military is a little more high profile and at the very least tolerated if not accepted  you'd get less of this crap. 

Late 1970's in Vancouver going down to the Seaforth armouries you were almost guaranteed to get some grief, but things were really weird then even by Lotus Land standards. I had a few runs ins on the TTC in the 1990's when I was enroute to FYA especially during GW1 and the Oka crisis. I handled it the same way as most here, hard stares, bitter sarcasm and or a knowing smirk/grin.

Funny 7 years in Nfld between thwe above two locations and never a smartass comment outside of MUN and that's not part of the real world.


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## Sig_Des (21 Oct 2005)

Never heard anything bad in Nfld or NB


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## combat_medic (22 Oct 2005)

Haggis, next time someone asks you what's under your kilt, tell them; "your girlfriend's lipstick".


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## Haggis (22 Oct 2005)

combat_medic said:
			
		

> Haggis, next time someone asks you what's under your kilt, tell them; "your girlfriend's lipstick".



My wife may object.  ;D

Now she's been asked the same question a few time, too.  Her reply is "Nothing's worn.  Everything works just fine."


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## shaun_bougie (25 Oct 2005)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> Never heard anything bad in Nfld or NB



That's because most of our military comes from Nfld or NB


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