# Housing for wife during PAT and SQ and DP1



## kkramar (17 May 2010)

I would try and search this but can think of on how to search it. I've been talking to some people that are at gagetown for artillery school about how long I will be there. They said expect to be there for a year or more. Now I understand they won't move my wife till I get my first posting and they expect to keep up your resident. 

Would they frown upon this senario??

I have a sister living in Muncton NB which is 45 min from gagetown. What if we pit our belongings in storeage and she lives with my sister so I can see her on weekends or weeknights. Now I get that I would probally loose seperation pay, but would I have to pay quarters and rations. 

What will they say or do, if we do this???


kkramar


----------



## PMedMoe (17 May 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> I have a sister living in Muncton NB which is 45 min from gagetown. What if we pit our belongings in storeage and she lives with my sister so I can see her on weekends or weeknights. Now I get that I would probally loose seperation pay, but would I have to pay quarters and rations.
> 
> What will they say or do, if we do this???



First off, you would have to get authority to move your stuff into storage or pay for it yourself (packing, loading, storage).  Without an authorized move, the CF will not pay for that.  Also, if you own the home and sell it, you will not get reimbursed any fees incurred.  Since you will no longer be maintaining a residence, I'm not sure about the R&Q.  You _should_ still get separation pay.

BTW, it's *Moncton*, NB.


----------



## jeffb (17 May 2010)

I did almost exactly what you are describing and got in some trouble for it. As with any other decision like this, if you are moving your F&E once you are in the CF, make sure you obtain permission to do so from your chain of command before you do so.


----------



## kkramar (17 May 2010)

Even if it's on my own dime?


----------



## PMedMoe (17 May 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> Even if it's on my own dime?



Well, I'm pretty sure they can't stop you from having it done yourself, but it's still a good idea to info your CoC.  They might know some ways to assist you.


----------



## McG (17 May 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> I would try and search this but can think of on how to search it. I've been talking to some people that are at gagetown for artillery school about how long I will be there. They said expect to be there for a year or more. Now I understand they won't move my wife till I get my first posting and they expect to keep up your resident.
> 
> Would they frown upon this senario??
> 
> ...


Don't make any plans now.  Wait until you have completed BMQ and actually get posted to Gagetown, then talk to your chain of command.  It is not uncommon, after SQ is completed, for you to be authorized a first move to bring your family to Gagetown ... it is not a sure thing, but the odds go up the longer schedualling will see you waiting in a PAT Troop.  If things align so that you go from course to course to course, you may not get this move but at the same time your progress through training will have been faster.


----------



## McG (17 May 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> Even if it's on my own dime?


If you pay on your own dime, then on your first posting you may also be stuck paying the difference in cost for moving from Gagetown vs moving from where your family is now.


----------



## kkramar (17 May 2010)

Well I'm in Edmonton at the moment. For a 2 way trip is over 900 bucks. I just want a good solution to being across the country for about a year and still having a decent relationship life with my wife.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (18 May 2010)

Normally, a CF mbr doesn't pay R & Q if they are maintaining a residence and have a dependent/dependents.  If you are married, that covers the dependent (IAW the CF definition of the word) aspect.

Someone mentioned a very good point; waiting until AFTER BMQ to do anything.  You could get injured, as an example, and be there for some time.  You could even not complete the training.  

As for the aspects of what you would like to do;  if you maintain your residence in Edmonton, and are married, you should not have to pay R & Q, you should receive seperation pay for up to 364 days.  Anything over 364 days and you are entitled to a full cost move by the Crown.  

Now if you put your HG & E (household goods and effects) into storage at public expense, you are no longer maintaining a residence.  If you pay for your HG & E to be in storage...you are STILL not maintaining a residence (the reason a CF mbr receives quarters at no cost).  

Now, if you maintained your residence in Edmonton, but your wife say, stayed in Moncton but did not "move" then technically, you maintain a residence with a dependent in it, and should get R & Q at no cost, and receive seperation pay.  The CF can tell you that you can't move your wife/belongings yet, they can't tell her she can't "visit" your sister while you are on course, right?

I'd wait until you are on your way to G-town to do anything though.  BMQ isn't that long, and St Jean ain't exactly close to Moncton either (10-12 hours by car, unless you cut thru the US).


----------



## kkramar (18 May 2010)

Well she wouldn't be going to muncton till after bmq. I was told I would be in gagetown for courses which is two hours from muncton.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (18 May 2010)

Its Moncton and yes, its about 1.5 - 2 hours from Gagetown.


----------



## kkramar (18 May 2010)

The wife is upset that the recruiters or file managers never mentioned the fact that I could be waiting a long time to get on course. She was under the impression that I would be on course right away.

Now she's scared about being alone ( she's never lived by herself before). I feel terrible and I don't know what to do to fix this.


----------



## jeffb (18 May 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> The wife is upset that the recruiters or file managers never mentioned the fact that I could be waiting a long time to get on course. She was under the impression that I would be on course right away.



The job of the folks at the CFRC is not to speculate on every possible permutation of your career that may occur in the future so I wouldn't be too hard on them. It's your job to learn as much as you can about what you are volunteering to do and then take the appropriate steps to prepare your family for the impacts of your decision. It seems like you are doing that by asking good questions here so good work so far. 

With respect to the waiting time, some NCM's show up to the Artillery school and are loaded on a course almost immediately, don't get injured or re-coursed for any reason, and are posted out again 3 months later. Officers are lucky if they are done their first course, CAP or BMOQ-L, in 3 months but that's another issue. The time ine of one year for training is what I'd be preparing my family for but recognize that around 4 months of that will be in St. Jean and it could be as short as 7 months  if you are lucky. Remember though that things happen while in training. You can get hurt or re-coursed for a variety of reasons that will put a kink in your training schedule.


----------



## PMedMoe (18 May 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> Now she's scared about being alone ( she's never lived by herself before). I feel terrible and I don't know what to do to fix this.



I don't mean to be blunt, but she might as well start getting used to it.  This is only the beginning of your career and you will be away on exercises, courses, tasking, tours, etc.

She should get involved in something she enjoys doing, whether it's a hobby, volunteering, a job (full or part time), etc.  She should also become familiar with the aspects of being "alone" (Who pays the bills?  Does the banking?  Gets repairs done on the car or house? and many other things).  When she finds that she is able to cope, she may not be so overwhelmed.

Oh, and get a dog.


----------



## kkramar (18 May 2010)

She's just not used to the idea yet, and to be honest neither am I, but I'm more prepared than she is. I guess all I can hope that all goes smoothly.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (18 May 2010)

I think your wife is upset about the seperation, not "that the recruiters didn't blah blah blah".

And...if she is going to be in Moncton...and you can see each other on the weekends...you can tell her to consider herself lucky.

Mrs EITS and myself got married a year ago next month.  I was away in August on course.  And October.  And November.  I've been attached posted, 3565 miles away from home, since just after New Years.  I don't get home until end-June.  If you put 2 and 2 together, you'll see our first anniversary is going to be spent apart.

Then, we get to pack up and proceed on our posting.  Where to?  We don't know yet and won't until end-June, but we've been told our posting date will be 14 Jul  :blotto:.  

We don't have to option of a 2 hour drive to see each other, so IMO, you guys are lucky you have the Gagetown-Moncton option. It isn't ideal to your wife perhaps, but I'd bet a years pay MY wife would love to be only 2 hours away instead of 3 days driving.

Its not something you have to like or enjoy, but it sure is better if you know what is coming up and plan for it as a couple.  Find the positive side of anything you can.


----------



## kkramar (18 May 2010)

Well currently we live in Edmonton, and the only way she would be in moncton is if she quits her job and lives with my sister is moncton. But than there is the issue of keeping all our stuff in Edmonton is our townhouse. And if she can't find a job in moncton than we can afford to keep our stuff in edmonton.
I've heard jobs in NB are scarce and if someone doesn't speak french it makes it just as hard.


----------



## simysmom99 (18 May 2010)

I certainly don't mean to be blunt but your wife and you are just going to have to get used to being apart.  I was married to my dh for 13 years, and spent 2 anniversaries together in that time.  I also lived in a house for 3 years that he only lived in for 2 months.  Such is the life and that is what we chose.  
Get your wife in touch with other wives/gfs in town.  Edmonton is a huge military town and lots of support.  
I sure hope that you guys know that the possibility of having children alone, raising them, selling houses and moving on your own and spending a lot of time doing everything without the other is very real.  It is hard to grasp in the beginning and not knowing what is about to happen is hard too, but that is the way the military works.


----------



## kkramar (18 May 2010)

Well if it turns out that I will be on PAT troop for a very extended period of time, than I have no trouble paying for a Uhaul truck and trailer and taking a week of leave to drive that puppy from Edmonton to Moncton. Even if the government approves to pay for it or not.


----------



## gunnars (26 May 2010)

I think that your wife needs to connect with the military family resource centre. It may help offer her guidance in the troubles she is having. 

Job situation in Moncton/Fredericton/Gagetown(Oromocto) is questionable. There are lots and lots of jobs in the retail/management end of things here because outsiders are really friendly and seem to get hired fast. Finding a more professionally minded job is quite difficult without French, but trying Saint John (1 hr from base Gagetown) and speaking french doesn't seem to matter. I am in a gov't position that dictates bilingualism (until my offer of employment?!?!) and I can ask where the toilet is in french but they need workers here so bilingualism as a necessity falls by the way side. If you wife plans to move down here, unless she lives in Oromocto or Fredericton, she will be over 1 hour drive away from the base.


----------



## TruckerJeff (26 May 2010)

I think there's something about beeing on/waiting for a course for more than 90 days that they would move your family WITH YOU'R CO'S PERMISSION. I've worked at armored school 3 years and they hardly ever granted that permission, and if they did it was for exeptionnal reasons only (and I'm not ralking about a wife scared of living on heu r own).

The reason is simple...to move you can cost $$$$$$$$$ and while on path, you can be trown on a course with hardly any notice and then posted anywhere in Canada.

And you might wanna reconsider your carreer move if you don't want to be away from your wife for long periods of time, combat trades a always away on missions, courses, exercises etc....

It takes a special kind of people to live a military career, but an even more special kind to be left behind with the kinds, house, bills ect....I always say my wife's a saint!!


----------



## kkramar (27 May 2010)

She was prepared for a few to 6 months away from me. But when she heard of a possiblity of a year or more. Personaly I am prepare to be gone for 3-6 months but over a year right off the bat seemed harsh. But I talked to an online recruiter and he said that they weren't making offers unless the course can go with little gap in between.


----------



## Eye In The Sky (27 May 2010)

And I for one, agree with you.  Hopefully your CoC will also and after you get past BMQ and move on in your trg, your wife can join you sooner than later.


----------



## kkramar (20 Jul 2010)

So here's what I've come up with since. Nothing is official yet so any clerks or other serving members can tell me it wont work, would be appreciated.

So we are planning to break out lease here in Edmonton and put pretty much all of our G&E into storage at my own expense. My wife will be flying to Moncton, NB to live in a basement suite at my sisters boyfriends house. We've gone onto a legal documents website and drew up a rental agreement and she can stay there for $300 a month.

So my questions are this.

Will this rental agreement and $300 rent be sufficient enough so I won't have to pay quarters and rations during course??

And when it comes time to get posted and move, will the CF have the contracting company come to the storage unit where my stuff is located and move it from there??

Thanks, kkramar.


----------



## McG (20 Jul 2010)

The stuff from the storage unit should be moved at crown expense when you get your first posting.  However, anything your family ammasses in Moncton would not be moved.  Further, if you are posted back West after your training, you will likely have to cover the travel & accomodation costs for your family for any distance travelled beyond the distance from Edmonton to that new posting.

If you are comfortable with the costs you will have to carry and the other costs you risk having to carry, then this looks like a fairly sound plan.  Do not get any wheels turning until after your chain of command gives you the green light.


----------



## kkramar (20 Jul 2010)

She wouldn't really be getting anything while shes over there other than maybe a cheap bed to sleep on. She will probably be hanging out upstairs with my sister or working. 

Also the amount of money we would be saving from paying $300 apposed to $1220 a month as well wouldn't give me a problem to pay for another plane ticket to fly her there. 

Who should I ask if this would be acceptable, I don't really have a CoC yet since I don't start BMQ till Sept. I would like to get this finalize before the end of July since I need to serve notice to my Landlord in Edmonton.

Also my trade is Artillery, so there isn't any posting west of Shilo.


----------



## McG (20 Jul 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> She wouldn't really be getting anything while shes over there other than maybe a cheap bed to sleep on. She will probably be hanging out upstairs with my sister or working.


Make sure she really is staying in a stand alone suite.  If she is living out of the kitchen of the main dwelling, your whole plan falls appart because, as far as DND is concerned, that would not meet the threshold of you maintaining a residence.



			
				kkramar said:
			
		

> Who should I ask if this would be acceptable, I don't really have a CoC yet since I don't start BMQ till Sept. I would like to get this finalize before the end of July since I need to serve notice to my Landlord in Edmonton.


Don't make any arrangements until you get to the Artillery School.  There is a whole number of potential heart aches you may open yourself to.



			
				kkramar said:
			
		

> Also my trade is Artillery, so there isn't any posting west of Shilo.


The distance from Moncton to Shilo is still greater than the distance from Edmonton to Shilo.


----------



## kkramar (20 Jul 2010)

He says that there are 2 sections in the basement that are stand alone, he already has one guy living down there. We've made up a lease as well showing that we are paying rent.

What kind of heart aches are you talking about. I'm still paying rent for a place for her to live and she will have a job there anyways.  

I'm fine with having to foot the bill to fly her to where ever I'm posted. This is mainly for her not me, even if she doesn't get to see me while I'm at Gagetown at least she wont be alone and able to hang out with my sister.

Do you think my file manager would be able to confirm if this plan could work.

None of what I'm doing is going to cost the crown any public expense.


----------



## McG (20 Jul 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> What kind of heart aches are you talking about. I'm still paying rent for a place for her to live and she will have a job there anyways.


If something happens and you don't clear St Jean in the expected time frame (could be from a course failure or an injury), then your family will now be in a strange new province and you will still be geographically seperated.

You might fail-out completely.  In this case, you'd have up-rooted your family for no purpose & will very quickly be looking for a new home in Edmonton with all expenses out of your pocket.

You might get to Gagetown quickly, but because the appropriate people did not approve your family moving, DCBA will rule you to be not entitled to certain benefits (possibly R&Q).  



			
				kkramar said:
			
		

> None of what I'm doing is going to cost the crown any public expense.


That may be, but when you don't follow the letter of the policy you become the one to miss-out on benefits.  Do things wrong and it will cost you.


----------



## kkramar (20 Jul 2010)

Well like I said she is going to be living in the suite downstairs of my sisters boyfriends house. Paying rent with an legal lease agreement. 

I'm saying this for my own motivation. FAILING OUT IS NOT AN OPTION. I'm come to far now to fail.

That being said if something happens that I do fail out, all is needed is to pop her back on a plane to Edmonton and start over.

I'm doing this for her so she will have at least my sister to keep her company, they have a decent friendship. My wife doesn't have any close friends here anymore because they've grown apart or they have moved away. If it works out that I can go to Moncton for the weekend then great, if not she still has my sister around.

If it also turns out that I have to pay R&Q ,then its not going to break the bank. I'll still be saving a lot more money doing this than if she was to stay in Edmonton. She's also been wanting to move out of Edmonton for some years now.

My main concern is if I'll get R&Q free, and that even though our official address according to the lease will be the basement suite in Moncton, that it won't become an issue that our G&E is in Edmonton. When it comes time to actually move to a posting, that they wont be showing up at the door in Moncton and have nothing to load up because all she's got is a mattress in the basement.


----------



## PMedMoe (21 Jul 2010)

kkramar said:
			
		

> even though our official address according to the lease will be the basement suite in Moncton, that it won't become an issue that our G&E is in Edmonton. When it comes time to actually move to a posting, that they wont be showing up at the door in Moncton and have nothing to load up because all she's got is a mattress in the basement.



That alone may cause you a *huge* problem in the end.  If I were you, I'd take the advice to WAIT until you get to Gagetown to make any plans.  You never know, depending on the length of the course, you may be entitled to a move.  If you do as you're proposing, you may find yourself paying for everything out of your own pocket and any money you will have "saved" by moving your wife will be gone and then some.  Just my  :2c:


----------



## kkramar (21 Jul 2010)

Well I just got off the phone with my file manager about this. She said when it comes to my relocation when it comes time to it, they go by your city at time of enrollment. So they would be coming to Edmonton to move my goods. Which is great because my G&E is going to be in storage in Edmonton. She did mention they wouldn't be paying to fly her from Moncton, which is fine with me.

The only thing she needed to check on is the rations and quarters part of this.


----------

