# New brown Mk IVs coming?



## Maxman1 (5 Aug 2021)

Seems Royer was just awarded a contract for 40,000 pairs boots, which look an awful lot like the old Mark IV in brown with the sole from the zipper boot.






						Government of Canada announces contract for combat boots for Canadian Armed Forces  - Canada.ca
					

Through Strong, Secure, Engaged, the Government of Canada is modernizing its military equipment to support the Canadian Armed Forces and keep Canadians safe.




					www.canada.ca
				












						Royer fabriquera des bottes de combat pour l’armée
					

Les soldats canadiens porteront des bottes sherbrookoises. L’entreprise Royer a été sélectionnée pour fournir aux membres des Forces armées canadiennes 40 000 paires de bottes de combat polyvalentes. Ce nouveau contrat d’une valeur de 6,9 millions $, attribué par Services publics et...




					www.latribune.ca


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## daftandbarmy (5 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> Seems Royer was just awarded a contract for 40,000 pairs boots, which look an awful lot like the old Mark IV in brown with the sole from the zipper boot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bill Murray nailed it....


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## dimsum (5 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> Seems Royer was just awarded a contract for 40,000 pairs boots, which look an awful lot like the old Mark IV in brown with the sole from the zipper boot.


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## Kilted (5 Aug 2021)

That doesn't look like much of an improvement.  Given the choice, most troops probably won't wear them. One of my issued pairs is still an Mk III, I think that I will hold on to them.


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## dimsum (5 Aug 2021)

Kilted said:


> That doesn't look like much of an improvement.  Given the choice, most troops probably won't wear them. One of my issued pairs is still an Mk III, I think that I will hold on to them.


...and they won't need to, because BOOTFORGEN is still in effect.  The FB blurb explains it a bit better but it's essentially for recruits.


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## MilEME09 (5 Aug 2021)

Gotta hope they learned something after making those awful zippered boots. Seriously why give this company a second chance? Other then botes in an election year....for 5 jobs


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## dangerboy (5 Aug 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> Gotta hope they learned something after making those awful zippered boots. Seriously why give this company a second chance? Other then botes in an election year....for 5 jobs


Legally they can't exclude a company from bidding.  Looking at the RFP that was posted on Buy and Sell: https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public...dd5d/ABES.PROD.PW__PR.B760.E77166.EBSU000.PDF The contract was based on just a technical evaluation and then lowest priced compliant bid. There does not seem to be any user-based trial, which I think is essential for clothing. 



> TECHNICAL  EVALUATION  METHOD. Context.   A Contract is  to  be  awarded to  the  lowest  priced compliant  bid.  The Technical  Evaluation  methodology  detailed below  will  be used to  determine all the technically  compliant  bids


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## dimsum (5 Aug 2021)

dangerboy said:


> There does not seem to be any user-based trial, which I think is essential for clothing.


I feel like I use the Shaq gif too much, so here's another one.


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## MilEME09 (5 Aug 2021)

All military kit in my opinion needs user trials, give the boots to a couple people and go ruck 50km over a couple weeks


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## Halifax Tar (5 Aug 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> All military kit in my opinion needs user trials, give the boots to a couple people and go ruck 50km over a couple weeks



I'm gonna blow your mind.  Army clothing contracting, procurement and LCMM is mostly run by REME Officers.


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## McG (5 Aug 2021)

Halifax Tar said:


> I'm gonna blow your mind.  Army clothing contracting, procurement and LCMM is mostly run by REME Officers.


No. It is primarily Canadian officers in DGLEPM, not British. Regardless, the requirements staff (who should be coordinating trials) are in the Army Staff and they represent a cross section of all branches and regiments.


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## dangerboy (5 Aug 2021)

I guess  people have been seeing all sorts of misinformation on social media as they put out this tweet: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423367585245106177


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## dimsum (5 Aug 2021)

dangerboy said:


> I guess  people have been seeing all sorts of misinformation on social media as they put out this tweet:



I'll admit that I had that thought for a little while because the original articles and social media posts didn't mention the part about recruits.  They corrected it, but people were already up in (virtual) arms thinking it was going to replace BOOTFORGEN.

Then again, some of those posts seemed so salty that the recruit disclaimer could have been in flashing neon signs and they'd still say "muh BFG".


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## MJP (5 Aug 2021)

Halifax Tar said:


> I'm gonna blow your mind.  Army clothing contracting, procurement and LCMM is mostly run by REME Officers.


I don't think that is necessarily true at all.  ADM(Mat) has a large conglomerate of RCEME but they are generally shoehorned into DGLEPM which is concerned with land equipment. If you are referring to Director Land Procurement within DGLEPM it is mostly civilian employees with RCEME (and others) mixed in.

DLR (which is under CA COS Strat) where much of the CA's clothing and equipment needs are conceptualized, trialed and brought forth for procurement by ADM(Mat) (DGLEPM/DLP) through PSPC is a mixed bag but by no means primarily RCEME


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## dangerboy (5 Aug 2021)

Also it is too early to tell if the hashtag that the CAF is using with this boot, #WellEquiped is accurate or not


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## Halifax Tar (5 Aug 2021)

McG said:


> No. It is primarily Canadian officers in DGLEPM, not British. Regardless, the requirements staff (who should be coordinating trials) are in the Army Staff and they represent a cross section of all branches and regiments.


I forgot the C.  Mea culpa.


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## Halifax Tar (5 Aug 2021)

MJP said:


> I don't think that is necessarily true at all.  ADM(Mat) has a large conglomerate of RCEME but they are generally shoehorned into DGLEPM which is concerned with land equipment. If you are referring to Director Land Procurement within DGLEPM it is mostly civilian employees with RCEME (and others) mixed in.
> 
> DLR (which is under CA COS Strat) where much of the CA's clothing and equipment needs are conceptualized, trialed and brought forth for procurement by ADM(Mat) (DGLEPM/DLP) through PSPC is a mixed bag but by no means primarily RCEME


Apparently your info differs from a CPO2 who was posted out, recently, of the DLR world.

But as is becoming tradition for you and I, we will have to agree to disagree.


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## MilEME09 (5 Aug 2021)

dangerboy said:


> Also it is too early to tell if the hashtag that the CAF is using with this boot, #WellEquiped is accurate or not


Tag meant to say "well, equipped"


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## Jarnhamar (5 Aug 2021)

Gross.


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## daftandbarmy (5 Aug 2021)

dangerboy said:


> I guess  people have been seeing all sorts of misinformation on social media as they put out this tweet:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423367585245106177



In other words....


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## dimsum (5 Aug 2021)

MilEME09 said:


> Tag meant to say "well, equipped"


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## Maxman1 (6 Aug 2021)

Kilted said:


> That doesn't look like much of an improvement.  Given the choice, most troops probably won't wear them. One of my issued pairs is still an Mk III, I think that I will hold on to them.



Don't know why they can't just make brown Mk. IIIs.

My guess is these are to be issued only to recruits _for now._


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## dimsum (6 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> Don't know why they can't just make brown Mk. IIIs.
> 
> My guess is these are to be issued only to recruits _for now._


I think we have rose-coloured glasses about the Mk IIIs.  

While some people did spend their careers on them (literally) and love them, there are others who still curse their name.  I'm neither here nor there about them, personally.


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## SeaKingTacco (6 Aug 2021)

dimsum said:


> I think we have rose-coloured glasses about the Mk IIIs.
> 
> While some people did spend their careers on them (literally) and love them, there are others who still curse their name.  I'm neither here nor there about them, personally.


I actually found mk3 boots super comfy and ”fixed” the lack of waterproofness with gortex socks.

Sometimes, we can over complicate things.


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## Good2Golf (6 Aug 2021)

SeaKingTacco said:


> I actually found mk3 boots super comfy and ”fixed” the lack of waterproofness with gortex socks.
> 
> Sometimes, we can over complicate things.


Especially when resoled with a nice Vibram sole. Well-fitted/broken-in uppers make them super comfortable and yet they last a long time.


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## dapaterson (6 Aug 2021)

My penultimate pair of Mk III were like slippers, but the uppers were torn and split, so once the soles were worn down like hockey pucks, I had to replace them.


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## Kilted (6 Aug 2021)

Maxman1 said:


> Don't know why they can't just make brown Mk. IIIs.
> 
> My guess is these are to be issued only to recruits _for now._



Now we just need to get them rucksacks and sleeping bags.


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## Weinie (6 Aug 2021)

dapaterson said:


> My penultimate pair of Mk III were like slippers, but the uppers were torn and split, so once the soles were worn down like hockey pucks, I had to replace them.


Still have the original combat boots I was issued in Cornwallis in 1983. They still fit and still work.


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## MJP (6 Aug 2021)

dimsum said:


> I think we have rose-coloured glasses about the Mk IIIs.
> 
> While some people did spend their careers on them (literally) and love them, there are others who still curse their name.  I'm neither here nor there about them, personally.


There is that aspect but the beauty of the Mk III was the simplicity of the boot. If you got a pair that fit your feet after breaking them in they generally formed very well fitting almost like a glove but still allowing for an extra pair of socks here and there as needed.  Newer boots with more fabrics and less leather don't act in the same manner, unless you go more high end and get ones that are more leather than fabric.

I like my Lowas and Rocky SV2s but they fit differently than my MkIIIs


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## dangerboy (6 Aug 2021)

Kilted said:


> Now we just need to get them rucksacks and sleeping bags.


A contract was awarded to LOGISTIK UNICORP INC. for 3,500 General Purpose Sleeping Bag Systems: General Purpose Sleeping Bag System (W8486-195105/001/PR) - Buyandsell.gc.ca


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## MJP (6 Aug 2021)

Halifax Tar said:


> Apparently your info differs from a CPO2 who was posted out, recently, of the DLR world.
> 
> But as is becoming tradition for you and I, we will have to agree to disagree.


I am not doubting that the CPO2 worked with RCEME folks, they just don't dominate DLR.  I just looked at the REMAR and there is 1 official RCEME posn, likely there is more than one person there as that is just the REMAR, I don't have the access anymore to see who is actually posted to compare.  Most REMAR posns for DLR are predominately Cbt Arms officers with a smattering of others. 

That said, there are lots of RCEME folks that oversee CA equipment, I just disagree with your assertion that they are the major players in "_Army clothing contracting, procurement and LCMM"_.  LCMM yes as part of DGLEPM  (even then most LCMMs are civvy but the EMT leads are RCEME)but not the other worlds, they are there but they don't run it.  

The more salient point is that even if it isn't RCEME folks is the equipment that everyone is complaining about is for the most part is conceptualized and brought into service by operators from that service.


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## AlDazz (18 Apr 2022)

What a screwed up Army.  Can't event sort out something as basic as boots.  God help us with the replacement of the Tac Vest.


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## Booter (18 Apr 2022)

I was nearly crippled by a set that looked like this on CAP. And I don’t have soft feet. The inside heel cup came apart on the first rain it endured and I had plastic against wet  skin.

I didn’t even know it was a thing that you had to worry about. I’d never had it on hundreds of miles of boot wear


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## OldSolduer (18 Apr 2022)

AlDazz said:


> What a screwed up Army.  Can't event sort out something as basic as boots.  God help us with the replacement of the Tac Vest.


We’ve all said that but realize it’s near impossible to buy footwear from outside Canada because…


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## Halifax Tar (18 Apr 2022)

OldSolduer said:


> We’ve all said that but realize it’s near impossible to buy footwear from outside Canada because…



It's a sad state of affairs...


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