# Quantity over Quality in the Reserves



## YoungSoldier (23 Jan 2004)

In the last few years I have noticed that courses have become slack. Instructors who in the past have trained some of the best soldiers in the military now have their hands tied. Getting rid of problem soldiers on courses is like winning the lottery. Once you start the paperwork our short 6 week courses are over. (summer being the prime time for reserve courses) Raising your voice is looked down apon now, charges of harassment for the most trivial things are rampant. Their is a aura of make beleive in the higher up thinking. Training for war is not done. I have seen privates on BMQ courses and SQ courses roll their eyes at Sgt‘s and the most the Sgt can do is red chit them. (which we all know is just a scare tactic) Pumping the troops through just to fill positions is not going to work in the long run. I have seen Master Corporals after 3 years in. Discipline is non existant unless your the sgt maj, the troops know they can get away with alot. Troops are their for the money they care nothing of the unit or the flag. But can we really blame them? What do they know of honor? Nothing! and how could they. Officers turn a blind eye and don‘t do their jobs in the reserves. They are in a sense YES men. Keeping the status quo is the new watchword. I know I just ranted but it just makes me sick. I would like your opinions.


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## Infanteer (23 Jan 2004)

Well, it is an aimless rant.  Here is the instruction manuel for how to produce a coherant arguement.

1) Try picking a specific issue you have a problem with.

2)  Supply specific examples of how the problem is affecting the CF/Reserves/Officer Corps/Your sex life.

3)  Most importantly, offer up a workable solution.  If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

4)  Try not to paint with a broad brush...nothing is black and white, and it just weakens your arguement.  
-Not all officers are yes-men.
-Discipline is NOT a non-existant thing (If you feel that way, I can introduce you to a few NCO‘s)
-Not everyone in the Militia is works only for the money and has no sense of honor.


Care to try again.


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## Enzo (23 Jan 2004)

I haven‘t served in the Reserves so I don‘t want to disparage upon those people who are actually have their **** together. As for the remainder. In my limited experience, I have encountered too many nitwits wearing the green as if it were an extended summer camp. Nothing was worse than having to endure those 4 RCR kids who strutted around with the cap badge after their 6 weeks. 6 weeks. Jesus, we devoted that amount of time to weapons training alone. I don‘t consider myself to be a close minded SOB, but one instance comes to mind where I was walking behind a RCR reserve Sgt. who was maybe 19 and a fat tub of... Anyway, he was using his authority to IMHO humiliate some reserve grunts. I came up behind him and intervened (bear in mind, at this point I‘m a 26 yr old "untrained" pvt in the RCR w/ 5 months in). So technically, I‘m way out of line. He has rank on his side. I didn‘t actually do much, just stepped in, gave him a look and said, "haven‘t you anything better to do?" He froze. That pissed me off even more. I told him to smarten up and think about what he‘s doing. At this point two RCR officers I recognized walked past. They kept on walking, one of them grinned at us. The Sgt. left right then. The grunts smiled and took off. I do not tolerate bully‘s. But even still, how did he get that rank without earning it? Anyone with a brain could see he was a walking disgrace. He‘d have lasted a week in the Regs.

Just one instance. I met quite a few guys who‘d have fit in well with us. Got along well with them in the ranks. In time after my injury my WO suggested I go to the reserves. It seemed a radical thought. But now that I‘m in school, the idea of an reserve unit isn‘t a bad one. Doubt I‘d get along well with the ranks if they are expecting a summer job mentality from me. Could be fun


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## Enzo (23 Jan 2004)

P.S.

Some times a rant is a good way to vent frustration. Bring it on Young Soldier. If it helps you, then it‘s a positive. If you can focus as Infanteer suggests, great. If not, let your thoughts flow. See what comes of it.

Cheers.


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (24 Jan 2004)

There is nothing more frustrating than showing a CPL proper drills on a C9. If your a reservist for the money you need a new job and selling the moe as a summer employment oppritunty is half the problem. When I did my QL2/3 weekends off was a belt fed c0ck tease. I hear these freshly trained troops complaining about the 2 weeks of PT they had to endure.They having to sign in on Sunday when cource doesn‘t resume until 0500 Monday.  Now I don‘t mean to get into a pissing contest with any of the old sods about "I remember walking to school 20 miles in a blizzard crap". But something has to change. Rolling your eyes at SGTs or CPLs was unheard of. These guys were scarey.Disipline is missing and the problem is we are not training to fight wars any more and instructors have their hands tied when dealing with sh1tpumps. The problem is the recruiting process not sreening properly. The CF spent a tonne of cash on a recruiting campagn and wants bodies to fill some BIG holes and is willing to look the other way when some of these yoyos come strolling through the door. Beating troops is not the answer and we know how serious we take red chits. A happy medium has to be established. PTing to the point of puking was very effective to me. Not only did I recieve a well deserved punishment, the CPL and I got some exercise. I was corrected and it was enforced thoughly and expertly. Ever do polymetric hopping for a hundred metres? I couldn‘t walk properly for two days.


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## Alex (24 Jan 2004)

I‘m not in the reg, reserves, or even cadets so I‘m not going to pretend I have the slightest clue what I‘m talking about, but for the sake of discussion, I have another example of what might perhaps be a reserve blunder.

There‘s a 16 year old in my German class who pretty much wears his PPCLI shirt everyday, and he says he‘s in the Loyal Edmonton Regiment. That‘s fine and all. He also says his rank is master corporal. I said, "wow that‘s really up there for a 16 year old," not at all sarcastically (bearing in mind I don‘t have much CF knowledge). He attributed it to being in cadets earlier and his dad being a former reg turned reserve Major. 

I‘m not saying that scenario is unlikely, but I‘m just curious as to whether or not it‘s good if we have 16 year old master corporals who probably haven‘t even been in the reserves for a year when there are people with more time in who are in the reg forces and aren‘t even trained privates yet. Thoughts anyone?


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## Caz (24 Jan 2004)

Alex, he might be a MCpl in the LER Cadet Corps   

But not a chance he‘s a MCpl primary reservist. *Not a chance.*

Correct me if I‘m wrong, but don‘t you have to be 17 to enrol into any component of the CF, anyway?


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## Jarnhamar (24 Jan 2004)

:warstory:


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## Roger (24 Jan 2004)

Humm, I guess I am a special case, I was in before, was a senior NCO but have been out for more than 7 years so I had to re-do my BMQ, SQ1 and 2. To be offered corporal.

So if some cadet at 16 or 17 came in as a master corporal, well I am very pissed off, and 
I do not think it is true. As far as the past and the future, there where slackers in the past and there will be in the future, re-doing my basic opened my eyes to the lazy guy‘s who kissed the instructers but to get good course reports but when there where no instruters they where lazy. I also saw sadictic instructors who had no respect for anyone.

But overall, I must admit that the core of today is better than the past, what you are being taught today is making you a better soldier overall than the past.

And I remember being a corporal in the past  was a section commander so it happened in the past, and hey guess what, it could happen in battle.


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## Slim (24 Jan 2004)

I have one story.

After leaving the regs I decided to join the reserves but in a different trade, making it nesseccary to complete a new QL3/QL4 ( to give you all an idea of the timeline involved when I joined first it was TQ this and TQ that.)

The standard of people in this trade was so incredibly bad. Most of them should‘t have even been in the army, never mind the trade in question.

One soldier in particular stands out.

He was a thief ( we couldn‘t trust him alone with your stuff lying around). He had to be carried through both courses, was openly hostile to NCO‘s, Disobeyed orders to the point where we figured he was history, right.

Nothing doing.

It got so bad that the staff and students teamed up to try and present an accurate picture of this soldier‘s behavior to the powers that be.

They wouldn‘t throw him out. He was finally sent back to his old unit around a year and a half later...for exactly the same things that he did on course.

Shameful.

I know the regs aren‘t as stiff as they used to be but coming from a reg force combat arms regt to this was too much. 

Discipline has to be maintained or what msg does it send? I don‘t think I want to find out...

Slim


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## YoungSoldier (24 Jan 2004)

Infanteer I welcome your comments and you are right not all are the way I said. Your in the reg force right? Reg force and Reserve are different and in some cases vastly. In the reserves the more ppl they have on paper the more money they get in the budget. So they go out and recruit anyone and I mean anyone sometimes turning a blind eye to medical problems. I just want to tell people what really goes on in the reserve units. Now like I said not all units are like this but I have worked with most so I‘m not telling lies. You can get in the reserves at 16 with parental consent. No way can someone be a master jack at 16. I agree with boomer a happy medium is needed. Right now it is like the instructors are on course and not the students because the instructors are watched like hawks. One deviation and their in ****. Cursing while talking with the troops (a almost subconscious thing for army ppl) can get u in a heap of trouble now. It‘s not getting any better that‘s for sure. What is frustrating me is when a soldier comes up to me and says how he does‘nt feel like he‘s in the army. That his uniform might as well be a mac donalds one for all he was told about it. I try to explain to him about the honor among ppl who were that uniform and how for me I gained that sense of duty during my basic and trade course. Most of the time they just smile and look at me funny like I just talked in some foreign language. Demoralization is the problem. Any Ideas? Sorry infanteer only my 4th time posting on a forum ever if I do it wrong.


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## Infanteer (24 Jan 2004)

No, I‘m a reservist too and I know exactly what some of the problems you bring up are.  When I got back to my regiment after spending a year in the Regs on tour, all I could say was What The ***K.  I think the problem is systemic though, not the fault of any specific group of soldiers (ie. officers, generals, recruits, CFRC, etc.)


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## Enzo (30 Jan 2004)

When I first came home I stopped by my mom‘s place. I walked into her kitchen and said, "Hey mom, how‘ve you been." She stopped in her tracks, looked right at me and said, "I know things are different for you in the military, but when you‘re in my home I‘d prefer it if you didn‘t use that language."

I said, "what‘re you ******* talking about?"

I noticed my profanity at that point, hadn‘t noticed it when I walked in the door.    Whoops. I just wanted to add that for fun.

As for those who are getting in with medical problems. Which units, I‘m sick of fighting w/ CFRC


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## tmbluesbflat (30 Jan 2004)

To young Soldier that moral and identity thing comes from your regimental/military history etc or at least it should! But with people re-badgung every couple of months it is hard to work up the necessary pride etc about such untenable things, young soldiers don‘t get enough indoctrination on those very vital elements!


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## Jeff Boomhouwer (30 Jan 2004)

Enzo I did the same thingwhen I came off my QL3. We sat down for dinner and I began to inhail my dinner in about 2 seconds and without thinking I piped up " Greatf88cking potatos mom!!"


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## Enzo (31 Jan 2004)

Where‘s a camera when you need it for those precious moments eh?


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## Yeoman (6 Feb 2004)

enzo; what‘s wrong with the 4 RCR troops? I know a good chunk of us are reg troops or were at some point, and over half of us have been on tours. I may admit I didn‘t earn that cap badge while on my bmq, sq, and biq. though when you have two former 2 commando‘s come up to you and say "you earned that cap badge on basic para".
I bet I know exactly what Sgt. you speak of if I‘m thinking of him, some of them are just like that.
I may not have trained as long as you guys in the regs do to get your cap badge, but I train just as hard as any of you.
Greg


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## Enzo (6 Feb 2004)

Greg - As I said, only one instance and it was back in ‘98. It‘s the way of things to recall the few negative moments and take the remaining positive ones for granted. As I also said, quite a few of those guys fit in well with us and that was fine. As I said at the beginning, I didn‘t want to disparage upon those guys.

I suppose its a matter of ones perspective. You earned your cap badge and are proud of the effort that required. The reg guys feel the same, but it takes awhile longer, so there‘s a sense of fulfillment along with that. Basically, it‘s a pissing contest I suppose.

End of the day, who cares. Its all training. If you are good at what you do, then revel in that. Just don‘t ever be a REMF like that fat ...

Cheers.


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## chrisf (6 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by BOOMER004:
> [qb] Enzo I did the same thingwhen I came off my QL3. We sat down for dinner and I began to inhail my dinner in about 2 seconds and without thinking I piped up " Greatf88cking potatos mom!!" [/qb]


Fortunately for me, both my parents are ex-CF... despite some disapproving glances, any... err... "service language" is forgiven.


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## Pte. Bloggins (7 Feb 2004)

On course last summer, while calling home, I tried my best to keep myself from swearing. I was being quite successful until a buddy comes by and tells me change of plan, and to get cleaning, we have another inspection soon. I respond accordingly, much to the displeasure of my dear mother on the other end.


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## Righty (7 Feb 2004)

Well i start my reserve BMQ this monday... Hope I don‘t run into too many people that have been described in this thread. I know there‘s always someone whose a total jack***, but I would like to think that must people have a good head on there shoulders who treats everyone with common respect.


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## Dan Gerous (8 Feb 2004)

I‘m one of the 16 year olds joining the reserves.  But as soon as I get out of high school I‘m joining the reg force.  I just figured that I should get started as soon as possible.  Not only is it a good job, but I want to be in the army.  And whether it be the regulars or the reserves I intend to be the most professional I can be.


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## Pte. Bloggins (8 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by Yeremenko:
> [qb]  It may not be as good as the regulars but at it‘s what I can do now.   [/qb]


I wouldn‘t quite say ‘not as good as the regs‘...we just have different roles. It‘s almost like comparing apples and oranges. Besides being part of the CF, most reservists hold down civvy careers or are pursuing a higher education. Besides, many reservists do their bit by helping out on operations, both domestic and international...

But let‘s not get into this debate again, that comment just irked me a bit.


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## Slim (8 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by Yeremenko:
> [qb]   It may not be as good as the regulars but at it‘s what I can do now.  And I intend to be the most professional I can be. [/qb]


Thats the best attitude to have and no one( reg or reserve) will be able to say a word if you‘re the best soldier you can be!

Good luck!

Slim


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## Yeoman (9 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by Enzo:
> [qb] Greg - As I said, only one instance and it was back in ‘98. It‘s the way of things to recall the few negative moments and take the remaining positive ones for granted. As I also said, quite a few of those guys fit in well with us and that was fine. As I said at the beginning, I didn‘t want to disparage upon those guys.
> 
> I suppose its a matter of ones perspective. You earned your cap badge and are proud of the effort that required. The reg guys feel the same, but it takes awhile longer, so there‘s a sense of fulfillment along with that. Basically, it‘s a pissing contest I suppose.
> ...


true that then enzo, just wan‘t sure of what you meant there was all. I bet I know EXACTLY who you are talking about. that I know of, he‘s not in the unit anymore. really I can understand what you‘re saying though. I mean it‘s one thing to get the capbadge through the reserves, and another to get it in the regs. I‘ll be one of the few troops that‘s earned the RCR capbadge twice.
Greg


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## Spr.Earl (9 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by Yeremenko:
> [qb] I‘m one of the 16 year olds joining the reserves.  But as soon as I get out of high school I‘m joining the reg force.  I just figured that I should get started as soon as possible.  Not only is it a good job, but I want to be in the army.  It may not be as good as the regulars but at it‘s what I can do now.  And I intend to be the most professional I can be. [/qb]


I will say to you Young MAN!  I salute you   

I‘m 50 now and still serving in our Militia have been since 1976 and I have only 5 yrs left. 

All‘s I can say is MAKE US PROUD!!


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## Yeoman (9 Feb 2004)

76? man you‘re just like my rsm. has had 41 years in (how I don‘t know probably joined up when he was 16).
you can litteraly say you‘ve got dirt on your boots that‘s younger then you lol
that‘s how I want to be, if my knees and back don‘t give out on me.
I don‘t see anything wrong with joinin up at 16. so long as you can keep up, aren‘t a bag of ****, and don‘t blade without reasoning, I more then welcome you.
Greg


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## Hert (9 Feb 2004)

I am in the Loyal Edmonton Regiment, and have never met nor heard of a 16 year old Master Corporal.  You‘d better ask that young fellow to get his story straight.

Stu


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## meni0n (9 Feb 2004)

Maybe he‘s a cadet M/cpl?


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## Franko (9 Feb 2004)

He was full of it alright. No cadet will ever be promoted immediatly to the rank of Mcpl or Cpl...it just isn‘t done.

The rank of Mcpl is basically where the individual is incharge of a section or a call sign, etc.

He/she has the lives of the people in their section in their hands on the battle field/ op.

Who would be so stupid as to give that kind of responsibility to a 16 year old boy(sorry guys, but it‘s true).

If I had a snot nosed kid show up and be promoted like that...I‘d be gone right after the CO got a shot to the gut. 

Regards

BTW...Mcpl is not a promotion...it‘s an appointment that can be taken away by the CO at anytime without cause. Just thought I‘d add that in


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## Dan Gerous (10 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by Pte. Bloggins:
> [qb]
> 
> 
> ...


I understand this and completely respect the reserves, otherwise I wouldn‘t join them.  I didn‘t mean anything by this. The reservists are something other than a soldier and I admire this.  I apologize for any misgivings.  And thank you to Slim and Spr. Earl for the support.   
(I did change my name so I‘m not talking for someone else).


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## combat_medic (10 Feb 2004)

YoungSoldier: There are hundreds of reserve units in the CF, and I would be absolutely amazed if anyone could legitimately claim to have worked with most of them. Most people with 20 years in would have a hard time claiming that they even MET someone from every reserve unit in the CF, so pardon me if I take your posts with a grain of salt. 

Certainly standards are different than they were 10 years ago. You can no longer insult someone by race, gender, etc., can‘t beat troops with a drill cane, and can‘t force them to do PT while you sit on the sidelines sipping tea. Yes, in many instances people attempt to abuse the regulations preventing harassment, but I believe that the standards are starting to swing back towards the center (where they belong). There are morale and attutude problems throughout the CF, both Reg and Reserve. Look at the guys who spend 2 years in Pat Platoon because they know how to abuse the MIR and chit systems. 

In any case, morale and pride can‘t be instilled by talking to troops, nor can it be beat into them with a pace stick. The hardcore slackers; the ones who only show up once every 6 weeks to avoid the NES list, never go on exercise, and have a medical excuse every time there‘s work to be done aren‘t fooling anyone. The half arsed soldiers are known to pretty much everyone, are usually ostracized from their unit, and typically shape up or leave quickly.

Eventually we‘ll have to find a balance between human rights and unit cohesion and discipline. Until then, we‘re going to have to be patient.


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## Michael Dorosh (11 Feb 2004)

> Originally posted by Stu Hert:
> [qb] I am in the Loyal Edmonton Regiment[/qb]


Wow, no one has ever admitted that here before.  You get my vote for bravest man on the forum!


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## shaunlin41 (11 Feb 2004)

I think that what some say about the Reserves is true, alot, not all but alot of reserves are not the best of soldiers but most of the time it is no fault of thier own.  The training $$$$ in the Canadian forces is down right nasty.  I was reg and am now a reserve and I can‘t even count the number of courses cancelled because of funding.
The courses are short but not because of the recruits not being able to handle it, but because there is no money.  Every time we send troops to Afgan something like 20-25 reserve courses are cancelled.  I did my basic and battle school in the regs and now I‘m in holding troop waiting for my qualifications to come through and let me tell you I could probally teach the f88king courses if they ever happen.  And believe me when i say that I am going to lose it if they don‘t come in soon because going into holding is like finishing high school just to be told that you must repeat grade 8.


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## bossi (18 Feb 2004)

1.  I don‘t like "blue on blue" exchanges, but that‘s just my personal viewpoint - it‘s a free country, and if you insist ... go right on ahead (more rations at the end of the day for the rest of us).

2.  A fat piece of cr@p is a fat piece of cr@p, no matter whether Reg or Reserve (yup - I‘ve seen both, and neither is a pretty sight).

3.  I just got back from Afghanistan, and I‘m extremely proud of what I saw - both Reg and Reserve doing a good job (and, yes - some fat pieces of cr@p, too) - however, at the end of the day, I saw more good things than bad things - thus, I‘m inclined to believe we must be doing something right (as an organisation ...).

4.  Quality instruction/leadership is more than important - it‘s essential.  If it‘s lacking, then do the best you can to replace/instill/create it yourself (reminds me of the expression:  "Make a decision - lead, follow, or get out of my way!")  Leadership by example isn‘t restricted to higher ranks - it‘s found at any and every rank level.  Instead of complaining, or being part of the problem, be part of the solution - set an example, do your best, and sooner or later the higher-ups will notice (especially if you‘re outperforming your supposed "superiors" ...)

Here endeth the sermon (yah - it‘s late, I‘m grumpy, and I decided to vent - so what?)
P.S. (once upon a time, the Army had an "apprentice" program - thus, it was possible to enlist at a very young age - not so today.  It‘s extremely unlikely the CF recruiting standards have changed while I was away, given the UN position on "child soldiers", thus there‘s no way I know of for a 16-year-old to be a MCpl in the Militia.  Thus, in addition to being jsut a little boy, that kid is pathetic - I know the LER claim a relationship to the PPCLI, but ... he sounds like a two-bit poser if he‘s always wearing a Patricia t-shirt instead of LER ... but then again, I imagine that LER t-shirts are only available in MEN‘s sizes ...)


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## Spr.Earl (18 Feb 2004)

Touche Bossi!
Yes it all come‘s the quality of instruction!
As Napoleon said;There is no such thing as a bad soldier only bad General‘s.

Over my 28yrs I have been instructed by Korean Vet‘s who were very harsh when you F‘d up.
By The Pat‘s who did the same.
You learnt or you were punted!No,if‘s and‘s or but‘s!

But as Militia we must strive to beat the Reg.‘s on course just because they see us as Militia Plug‘s!

(at my age now I‘m proud of being called a Militia Plug because I‘ve forgotten more than they now now      )   

Yonk‘s ago in the Wack when they had the M/Cpl Mess I was on my 6A Engineer Course.
A Reg Force Course which is close on 3 month‘s cramed into 6 week‘s!!!

We are in the mess studying and helping each othe out on bridge classification or some other subject
When uncalled comment‘s were made from certain Reg.Force M/Cpl.‘s in the Mess about Militia Plug‘s etc.

It whent on and they picked  on the young guy!!


I lost it!!

Hey we are here to learn,if you can‘t give us  the grace of learning why should we bother!!

All of a sudden one of them questioned my T.I.
(Time In)

DOH!!! WRONG QUESTION!!!!!! 

Me;HEY **** HEAD I‘VE SERVED WITH 3FD SQN BEFORE IT BECAME 1 C.E.R.!!

Who the F are you to question me! and what‘s your problem?
We are here to learn but with your attitude why should we bother!!

The mess whent quiet!
After me pointing out my T.I. in trhe Wack.

Then they started sucking up,and the funny thing was one of them was a cook(Spanky) who came from Pet. knew my brother who was in Pet as a Zipper Head at the time.

After that we had our own table‘s to study and some of the Reg‘s even came over to help and give advice. 

Yes we reservist‘s do go through **** when dealing with the Reg.‘s.

Do as I have alway‘s done say ;I‘m here to learn,teach me if I screw up let me know!!

You won‘t go wrong.


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## big_johnson1 (28 Feb 2004)

I‘m in the Air Reserves, and I‘ve worked 6 1/2 of my 7 years in on Class B or C. I‘ve been on tour, and all of my courses have been done with the Reg Force. I‘m proud to be a reservist, but it makes me sick when I go away and all I get is negative stories from Reg force guys who have worked with reservists. I‘m sick of hearing about weekend BMQs and PLQs, and the reserve officer I saw who was so fat that she had to have a patch sewn into the back of her combats doesn‘t help my opinion either. There are a lot of good people out there, but the fact that CFRC turns away qualified people who would make great soldiers and picks up these kids who have no respect or sense of duty is dragging the whole system down. 16 years old and a MCpl eh? Well I‘ve seen 20 years old but he didn‘t earn that rank and there isn‘t a person out there that would respect that rank. Maybe the militia would do better to follow the air reserves example and start doing proper courses. There‘s no way I‘m trusting someone with a 6 weekend BMQ overseas    

Flame me if you must, and yes I know that not all militia are bad. There are a lot that are great, but the good ones need to straighten out the bad.


Chimo


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## jacgau (28 Feb 2004)

If I‘m not mistaken, the length of a BMQ is 24 days followed by a 10 day army qualification course.  Then followed by the trade course.  The total amount of training days for the PTE (r) to become a PTE (t) is 60 to 70 days.  Then if that person wishes to serve overseas, they normally must have at least one year in the reserves(there may be exceptions).  So don‘t worry Feral you will never serve a tour overseas with one!!!   
But I know what you mean and I really do sympathize with you all.  As I am one of the fatties have always been able to do well and not be a sack of **** ,  it irks me to see people like that and they should get c&P then the boot.


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## big_johnson1 (1 Mar 2004)

Well even so, why do the regs do longer BMQs? I think that no matter what, the courses should all be up to the reg standard, and there is no reason why they can‘t be intermixed. We need people, especially now, but those people need to be properly trained. I‘ve always been proud of being Canadian, especially as a service member. I hear stories about how the PPCLI outperformed the US forces in Afghanistan, how our boys and girls consistently perform well in the international fighter competitions, and how the CF always does well in other international competitions like Silver Flag. We may not have the equipment or the funding of a lot of countries, but we‘ve always made up with for it with good training and good people. Is it so hard to train the militia to a reg force standard? Maybe I‘m missing something but I don‘t think it‘s too much to ask.


Chimo..


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## Jarnhamar (2 Mar 2004)

I‘m always hearing how much canadian soldiers out perform american ones. While the few times i‘ve worked with american soldiers i wasn‘t always impressed with the quality of the soldiers present, at platoon level, the same can often be said about some of ours. They have a lot of combat and operational experience, we don‘t. I‘m sure a lot of what you here is standard we are better than them, my course was harder than your course, the courses today are so much easier then when I went through basic training etc..  
You don‘t see many fat over weight american combat arms soldiers do you? 
In my opinion on an individual level were usually exposed to more training and because of the lack of man power, our guys are cross trained a lot more. In physical fitness, fire support, logistics, combat team stuff (the list goes on) they blow us away.

Why can‘t reserves be trained to the level of the reg force during their basic training? Time. They can put their guys on a basic training course for 3 months and then send them away for 4 months or even a year. When you train reservsts you have to take into consideration their work and school. Guys in school, the main body of reserves, can only trainw hen they have time off school, ie the summer. We have to cram as much training as possible into 6 or 7 weeks (whatever). These guys are having so much information thrown at them that half the stuff doesnt sink in and their not exposed to military life as long as their reg force counter parts are. It‘s all about the time available.


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## CrazyCanuck (2 Mar 2004)

Well I know that I will hopefully be doing BMQ/SQ this summer, but it‘s only a 2 month course, and I have 4 months off, being in University.  I understand that not evetyone is in the same situation, but it seems like a shame that I‘ll be doing some menial job for the first 2 months of summer, when I could be doing a reg force BMQ or getting started on QLs.


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## willy (2 Mar 2004)

I don‘t claim to know just exactly how many people join the reserves every year, but the number is pretty high.  When you add up all the personnel who take militia/naval reserve/comm reserve BMQ courses, I‘m sure that you have a number that far exceeds the number put through at CFLRS.  Res/reg joint basics will never be the CF standard because the school in St Jean couldn‘t possibly handle the workload.


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## Arctic Acorn (4 Mar 2004)

I have to disagree with you, Pte. Bloggins. Reservists and Regular force members are -not- apples and oranges. We‘re all in the same business of serving Canada. The whole point of the reserve force is to suppliment, support and augment the regular force on operations, and (with budget cuts, attrition, etc etc) in day to day operations. Reservists are expected to perform the same job as our regular force counterparts. This is not an easy thing sometimes, as we‘re not trained to same standard (but still expected to -perform- at the same standard) and, frankly, our basic soldier training sucks. 

As for the whole "bad reserve soldier" thread, our basic training standards stink (at least they did 5 years ago when I did mine...). The problem is how reserve brigades conduct basic training serials. 

In the regular force, you join with the intent of joining a specific trade, but you are posted to the recruit school until you graduate. The school owns you, so it‘s easy to turf you if you aren‘t suitable for further training. Easy Peezy. 

No so for us poor rentals. You join a unit, -then-you are usually sent to another unit and they train you. Back home, the local infantry battalion hosted the training. I work in a support trade, and we just don‘t have the cabability to run our own serials, and we contract it out, so to speak. What happens is that the course staff may really not like a candadate, but they have no authority to turf another units recruit. It remains the home unit‘s responsibility to do so. Consequently, if the unit doesn‘t screen it‘s fledgling troopies adequately, they‘re kinda stuck with them unless they volunteer to pull-pin. Not wanting to be seen as abusing another units soldiers, the course-staff pretty much has their hands tied. As much as they probably hate to do it, it‘s easier for them to give up and send the soldier back to their home unit. "Not my problem..." At least, thats how things work at the reserve bde back east. Unless they change that system by having the brigade run the basic course, with the authority to recourse-fire unsuitable candidates, things will likely not get any better. 

Ask any reservist, and I bet most of them would love to do a tougher, longer basic. My course sucked, and I felt like a ‘pretend soldier‘ for years because of it.


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## Pte. Bloggins (5 Mar 2004)

I agree that units should be able to ditch you if you just don‘t measure up on course (on my basic, several individuals who had made quite clear they didn‘t want to be there couldn‘t be sent packing because, among other things, too much red tape). 

As for longer basics, some of us only have 8 weeks of summer vacation (around half my basic course was still in high school) so that‘s all we have to offer for training. Never mind that, what of the people who have full-time jobs? It might be just a tad difficult to keep asking one‘s employer for even more time off for training. (I‘m talking about summer basic here- personally I think that weekend basics are a joke- two and a half days of training in a row and THAT‘S IT...groan)


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## logau (6 Mar 2004)

Check this out  http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/163581_guard06.html 

USA is rotating 130,000 troops and lots of them are reserves - the few the proud BS that the system gives us should be turned over and spanked.

We need more - we can afford more - tell your MP we can do more if they give more.

The only problem with the above is we don;t have anywhere to send them after they do their 3 year hitch - so send them to the reserves - active or inactive.

My main hobby horse is we (I feel) have sold ourselves on the idea that the long service regular is the model. Professionally he or she is certainly the model but to get that model requires a lot of turnover. Why not just formalize it and start the Canadian Suasage Machine. Lots of Cdn soldiers over a short period of time = GREATER LONG TERM CAPABILITY and more voices telling the MPs in Ottawa - PLEASE SIR, MORE?


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## RCA (6 Mar 2004)

Note to File: The Reservist job is not to augment the Regular force. Actually, our function has been fully determined and that was one of the reasons for LFRR. Basically the discussion is that reserves are a building block for mobilization based on the cadre system. Therefore our trg is not the same length or requirements as the Reg F. Once required for sub-unit, or unit augmentation, then the necessary trg is filled in. Indiv augmentation only became big when Yugo blow up and the Reg F wasn‘t big enough to sustain the commitment. Unfortunately, long term memory is poor and people now assume that is the Reserves raison d'être, like peacekeeping for the CF. Wrong.


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## Arctic Acorn (8 Mar 2004)

RCA, I‘ll be a bit more specific...certain reserve roles are there to augment the regular force. Maybe thats not what they intended originally, but thats the reality...

I‘m in a Combat Support trade, and our unit‘s role -is- to augment and support the regs for deployments and operations. (says so right in the mission ststement). As for the other CS/CSS trades, I -believe- that it‘s about the same. (hopefully all you CS/CSS types can set me straight). The Forces have even started to provide mixed trades courses (reg/res) in order to provide the same standard to everyone. (thankfully!)Again, this (as far as I know) is on the support/service support end.

As for the combat arms types, I guess it‘s a different story. There shouldn‘t be any individual augmentation, as you ought to be a formed unit from the onset, but there have been Composite Reserve Infantry Companies for Bosnia to take some of the PersTempo pressure for a few rotos now. 

I think that keeping reservists back as a ‘building block for mobilization‘ is a waste of resources. Valuable experience is gained by maintaining the same standard as the regular force, and if we ever had to undergo a ‘mobilization‘ period, we‘re only providing more capable instructors.

When you think about it, having a pile of what are essentially ‘contract workers‘ who are able to (and do) fill gaps in the military machine has been pretty handy. It‘s not an ideal situation, but it gets the job done. As long as they are trained tot he same standard as their regular force equivalent.


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## NMPeters (9 Mar 2004)

The role of the Army Reserves is: 

"The statement as approved by the CDS in May 2003 must be read in the context of the Army's purpose:

The Army purpose â Å“Made up of Regular and Reserve (Militia) components, the Army's primary purpose is to defend the nation and, when called upon, to fight and win in war.â ? 

The Role of the Army Reserve â Å“Within the Army, the Reserves (Militia) provide the framework for mobilization, the Army's connection with Canadians, and augmentation within the Canadian Forces.â ?

â Å“Note:  Augmentation refers to the provision of supplementary (depth) and complementary (breadth) capabilities.â ?"

Individual units do not have "roles". They are given missions and tasks.


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## Greywolf (9 Mar 2004)

I keep hearing that the reserves need more people, but it‘s pretty hard to recruit people when nobody at the reserve unit ever answers the d*** phone.  I have considered applying to the reserves, but finally gave up.  There is never anyone there to pick up the phone and when you leave messages, no one ever calls you back.  One time, I called every 2 minutes for five hours during a weekday and still no one there.  Tried calling on a parade night...same result.


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## venero (9 Mar 2004)

ahahaaha Greywolf that is so true. I must have called 20 times untill someone answerd the phone.


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