# Heckler & Koch



## muskrat89 (6 May 2004)

I had an opportunity to fire the MP-5 last weekend, as well as the G-53 (5.56)  Seemed like very nice pieces of kit...


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## Ex-Dragoon (6 May 2004)

The MP5 is a dream to fire.....I was never keen on the H&K53 did you find the weapon uncomfortable to fire?


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## AlphaCharlie (6 May 2004)

yeah, H&K make nice weapons. I‘ve always wanted to fire a G36E myself. What calibre is the G63E? I‘m thinking 5.56mm NATO but i‘m not 100% sure. Those Europeans have some crazy sizes (shoes, electrical plugs... lol)


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## Ex-Dragoon (6 May 2004)

You are correct it is 5.56


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## 1feral1 (6 May 2004)

On Tuesday I inspected a suppressed 9 x 19mm MP5. One of many. Really nice,and the newest version with plastic lower, and the newest type cylindrical rubber handguard.

All were NIB and deemed for Swanborne (SASR).

Cheers,

Wes


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## AlphaCharlie (6 May 2004)

I like how it has a built in scope. Once you zero it, no worries!


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## muskrat89 (6 May 2004)

I liked them both. I think I liked the 53 better, just because it had a little more "snap" than the MP-5


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## AlphaCharlie (6 May 2004)

well MP5 is only 9mm... 

Does 5.56mm have more recoil than 9mm?


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## rice (6 May 2004)

there is in fact a 10mm mp5, designed specifically for US law enforcement agencies


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## 1feral1 (6 May 2004)

Another funky MP5 fact. It has the same ROF as the M16, and fires from a closed bolt, just like its bigger brothers the 5.56 x 45mm M193 HK33 and 7.62 x 51mm NATO G3, which all use the same recoil system in principal, and some parts even interchange between them in the lower receiver.

HK also made the SA HK91 and SA HK 93 for civvy use. I used to have a HK 91 for many years. It had the retracting butt and OD PG and handguards.

Regards,

Wes


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## 1feral1 (6 May 2004)

About the 10mm or .40 cal MP5, I have never heard of that, but to meet demands for the US LEO Org‘s it could be. 

Another popular wpn is a 9 x 19mm version of the M4. I had seen some copies of this in 2000. ADI was looking at a 9 x 19mm AUG/Steyr for foreign contracts, as this was produced in Austria. There is a lot of oddball stuff out there.


Cheers,


Wes


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## AlphaCharlie (6 May 2004)

The German made ww2 SMG MP-40 was 9x19 parabellium.... 


horray for usless facts. infact.. hmm I know calibres for most weapons used in ww2..


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## muskrat89 (6 May 2004)

> well MP5 is only 9mm...
> 
> Does 5.56mm have more recoil than 9mm?


Just slightly, in my opinion....


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## 1feral1 (6 May 2004)

Where are you coming from Alpha?


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## AlphaCharlie (6 May 2004)

> Originally posted by Wesley H. Allen, CD:
> [qb] Where are you coming from Alpha? [/qb]


I don‘t quite understand your question?


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## Ex-Dragoon (6 May 2004)

I think Wes was asking why you brought up knowing the calibers of WW2 weapons...nothing really to do with the MP5 or the H&K family.


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## AlphaCharlie (6 May 2004)

Oh. Well... i‘m not sure. I just felt like stating that... :-\

ANYWAYS, back on topic: I have a weakness for German things... cars, weapons... women   

H&K make awesome weapons, Porsche makes awesome cars...


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## scm77 (6 May 2004)

The only H&K I‘ve fired is the USP in 9mm.  It seemed to fit my hand like a glove.  I‘m gonna buy one when I‘m older and can afford one.


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## mudgunner49 (19 Aug 2004)

rice said:
			
		

> there is in fact a 10mm mp5, designed specifically for US law enforcement agencies



The 10mm version of the MP-5 was , in fact, developed for the FBI, back when it looked like they were going to go with the S&W 1076 handgun in (you guessed it) 10mm.   This was "post-Miami shootout" (1986 or so) and they did a whole whack of testing to see if they could get something to perform better than the 9x19.   To no one's surprise they did, the 180 gr of the 10mm exitting the muzzle at around 1200 fps. They also found that many of the agents did not like the flash, blast and recoil of the 10 to say nothing of the fat that the pistol was big and heavy and many started carrying it in briefcasses and the like.   There is no free lunch.   

The round was toned down to the tune of about 950 fps (which gave it about the same capabilities as the .45 ACP), however the gun was still huge (well, relatively at least) so S&W teamed up with Winchester, shortened the case so that it would fit into a 9mm-sized frame and. voila, the .40 S&W (one of the greatest modern cartridge success stories) was born.

The 10mm version of the MP-5 was found to be abusive and the guns quickly broke essential parts like locking blocks and that sort of thing.   When you can run a 9x19 MP-5 for 3-400.000 rounds with minimal problems but only get 10-20,000 out of the 10mm version, something is wrong.   The attenuated version of the 10mm, the 40 S&W had many of the same problems, and in spite of fair sales in the U.S. and Canada, was dropped by HK and is not even supported any longer (to the best of my relatively extensive knowledge).   The only MP-5 that HK now makes is in 9x19mm.   As it should be.

The FBI now issues the Glock 23 in .40 S&W, and from all reports is very satisfied with it.   The FBI is an agency that gets in a lot of shootings, in fact I believe that only the U.S Marshal Service and Texas DPS get in more.


For your information and edification,

Blake ;D


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## Bartok5 (24 Aug 2004)

Well, I quite like my MP-5 and must admit that of the nine different SMGs within my personal stable, it remains my Wife's personal favorite.   : 

I also own a G3, and have to say that it is severly punishing rifle for the rather mild 7.62 x 51mm cartidge that it takes.  The G3 certainly wouldn't be my first choice in a "battle rifle".  It does nothing in terms of reliability, instrinsic accuracy, and (most of all) ergonomics that the original AR-10, FAL, or M-14 don't do better.  And yes, I own and shoot all of the above.   

Just my personal observations as a trained soldier who owns and shoots HK's within a mix of many other SMGs, Assault and Battle rifles.  HK makes a good firearm, but they aren't the only show in town....


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