# next 291 course



## nate (4 Dec 2006)

Hello to everyone.

I am waiting for a job offer as a 291 and I was just wondering if anyone knew when the next 291 course starts in Kingston.  I received a BMQ and SQ by-pass, so I am just curious as to when the next course starts and how often the course runs throughout the year (once, twice?).

thanks,
nate


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## Radop (5 Dec 2006)

nate said:
			
		

> Hello to everyone.
> 
> I am waiting for a job offer as a 291 and I was just wondering if anyone knew when the next 291 course starts in Kingston.  I received a BMQ and SQ by-pass, so I am just curious as to when the next course starts and how often the course runs throughout the year (once, twice?).
> 
> ...



It could be a while as you have to get your sec clearance first.  Most guys are taking over a year.  There are a lot of ptes taking their French course right now because of that.  Try and get on to one of those positions.  They are also doing their morris code while they wait.  There are litterally courses of people waiting right now.  By the way, you will need your SA - TS before going on the course so unless you were at that level before, chances are it will take a while.  One guy has had his TS for 6 mos and is still waiting for the SA.


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## nate (5 Dec 2006)

Thanks for the info.  I was a Pte. 031 INF before, and I'm not sure what security clearance I had.  I have a question about what you said- taking other courses;  does this mean that I will most likely receive a job offer and be posted to a base or some sort of holding platoon?, or will I have to wait a while until the actual trade course has a spot for me?  (in other words, will I be offered a job and go to a holding platoon even thought there is a long wait for the actual 291 course, or will recruiting hold off on swearing me in until the wait for the 291 course is not so long?)

thanks,
nate


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## Radop (5 Dec 2006)

Sorry but I cannot answer that.  From what we see here, you would be brought in right away and put through your paces on morris code.  Being an infanteer, you probably only had ERC (protected) security clearance which means they are starting from scratch on you.  My best guess is that you have at least a year of training before you will start your course.  Some of the 291ers may be able to give you better time frame than what I can but I am probably not far off.  As for when you will get sworn in, if the military feels they want you in, you will be sworn in and sent to either Borden or Kingston depending on what they want to do with you.  One of the Ptes I talked with had several courses from Borden of the "Fun" catigory.  I cannot remember exactly but he did take a two week canoeing course.  Yes canoeing course!!!  Apperantly the military runs one out of Borden.  News to me.  So, you may find yourself on some interesting courses while awaiting your training.


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## 211RadOp (6 Dec 2006)

Radop said:
			
		

> ...on morris code..



And I can't believe you forgot how to spell Morse Code   :

I know it's been a long time since you used it  ;D


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## nate (6 Dec 2006)

thanks for your response.  so canoeing, eh?  It doesn't matter to me what course I am put on, as long as I'm in uniform.  But it sounds like it could get interesting.  The recruiting office said I should receive an offer either right before the Christmas break, or first thing in the new year.  So here's to that,

cheers,
nate


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## Kokanee (6 Dec 2006)

Sorry Radop but respectfully, I'm afraid your information is incorrect.

Nate;

Assuming you currently have employment, I would inquire at the recruiting cell about not mustering in until about a month before your course, as otherwise you'll be sent to PRETC (holding platoon) in Borden, and having done 6mo of hard time there in '03, I cannot recommend it in the least.

There are two components to the 291 QL3 package;

UNCLASS - You will be loaded on this whenever it runs, you don't require a clearance (usually two-three serials a year, sorry I'm not privy to that info right now, but if you like shoot me a pm and I will ask the boys in trg next time I'm working days). Currently any new courses to go through the unclass portion will not have to do morse code as it's being dropped from the trg plan. In it's place will be a variety of fun and exciting (relative to morse) activities to engage your interest. I won't go into what the unclass comprises of, but you will get as much info and instruction during it as is possible without a security clearance. Once you have passed your unclass portion, you will need your security classification to proceed to the classified portion of your trg. Assuming you get your clearance, you'll spend another three months in Kingston, then on to CFS Leitrim.

Now, in most cases you won't have your clearance by then, so what happens? There are a few options. If you are from the Ottawa area originally you can come and work at CFS Leitrim in a unclass capacity. Or you can be sent to our field unit in Kingston, 2EW. As well as Radop stated, there are a few other courses offered in Kingston such as French trg to while away the months (and possibly years, although 1 1/2 years seems to be the average) you'll wait for your clearance. 2EW is probably the best option for a former infanteer as yourself.

I graduated in summer '05 from my 291 course in Kingston and have been serving at CFS Leitrim since then, if you have any other queries shoot me a pm and I'll either answer them, or find out for you if I don't know.


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## 211RadOp (7 Dec 2006)

Nate,

Seeing as no one actually answered your question about the next course start date, the next Unclas course starts 22 Jan 07 followed by 19 Feb 07.

Good luck.


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## sigtech (7 Dec 2006)

Nate Just remember 

Wait then wait some more oh ya I forgot you will have to wait

Some of the 291's have been waiting almost 2 yrs before getting on course........

Welcome to Kingston


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## nate (7 Dec 2006)

Wow, that is a lot of information, and a big awakening.  I have heard hurry up and wait, but not hurry up and wait for 1 1/2 years for a course.  As for working as a civilian, rather than going to holding platoon in Borden, or Kingston, I did 'time' myself on holding pl., but only for 2 months.  And with the job I have now, I would rather be on holding platoon (I am a welder, and let's just say it's not a company I want to work for any longer than I need to).  At least from what info. I have gathered from you guys, I will at least be able to take some courses, or do a regular daily tasking.  So even though it might be boring, wait,wait,wait, and less than half the pay than on civvy street, I have been waiting long enough to get back in, so the sooner the better.

cheers,
nate


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## sigtech (8 Dec 2006)

If you keep that attitude Nate you will do fine. It can suck having to wait but there is such a backlog in Ottawa with the clearances as long as you are patient it will come. 

My main point is this, have all your information ready for when you get here,

Who you have worked for 
Where you have lived
People you have lived beside

Basically if you think it is important make note of it, also remember you will need to go back 15 years and this can be a pain if you don’t get this information ahead of time.

Having this will speed things up

Cheers
Welcome to the branch


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## sigtech (8 Dec 2006)

nate said:
			
		

> Wow, that is a lot of information, and a big awakening.  I have heard hurry up and wait, but not hurry up and wait for 1 1/2 years for a course.  As for working as a civilian, rather than going to holding platoon in Borden, or Kingston, I did 'time' myself on holding pl., but only for 2 months.  And with the job I have now, I would rather be on holding platoon (I am a welder, and let's just say it's not a company I want to work for any longer than I need to).  At least from what info. I have gathered from you guys, I will at least be able to take some courses, or do a regular daily tasking.  So even though it might be boring, wait,wait,wait, and less than half the pay than on civvy street, I have been waiting long enough to get back in, so the sooner the better.
> 
> cheers,
> nate



One quick question Nate if you are a welder why not go Mat Tech


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## nate (8 Dec 2006)

I can not go mat. tech. because of an Occupational 3 medical category.  I believe mat tech is an O 2 category.  Aside from that, the 291 just seems to offer so much more and looks really interesting, much more than any other trade I have looked into.  Thanks for the heads up and advice.  Hope to get the offer within a few weeks.

nate


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## Radop (9 Dec 2006)

Kokanee said:
			
		

> Sorry Radop but respectfully, I'm afraid your information is incorrect.



Hmmm, the 60 291ers on course with me are wrong????  They are all still awaiting training, some for over a year already.  BUT, I did not know about the unclas potion of the training.  I assumed that the course would be similar to ours in that the secure subjects and unclas subjects are mixed together.  I don't believe I said anything incorrect from what the others on this page are also saying!!!   8)

Any of the 291ers on this page taking the Modular French course?

But I have to admit I screwed up by spelling morris code instead of morse code and yes it has been decades.   ;D


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## nate (10 Dec 2006)

Another question I hope someone can answer.  I know 291 is a purple trade, so will I have any say in what element I want to serve in, or is that completely up to someone else?  I'd like to serve in the army, because that is the element I served before, and I guess it's really just a personal preference, but I'm not really interested in the navy or air force (nothing against sea and air, I just want to get back into the army dress).  Also, do 291ers who serve in the navy take navy element specific training, or do they have to do army sq?  and is it the same with army 291ers having to do navy specific training before serving onboard a ship?

thanks,
nate


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## gelan (10 Dec 2006)

I'm pretty much in the same boat as Nate, I was 031 (3RCR) and previously held a Level 2 (secret) security clearance. Will that speed things up, or will it not matter?

That's a lot of crap to remember, and a couple of the places I lived in, I don't know who I lived beside because I kept to myself, and didn't really get to know anyone... 

This trade is really paperwork-intensive to get into, eh?




			
				sigtech said:
			
		

> If you keep that attitude Nate you will do fine. It can suck having to wait but there is such a backlog in Ottawa with the clearances as long as you are patient it will come.
> 
> My main point is this, have all your information ready for when you get here,
> 
> ...


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## sigtech (11 Dec 2006)

As you know Gelan security clearances are always a pain.

Yes if you have Secret already it will speed things up, a upgrade in lue of a new Clarence.........

Just remember once you have completed all your forms get a copy before you input then file them away this will make things easier as time goes on. Also when you move update this information. 

Nate 

As far as I know within Purple trades it means no matter what element you are in Army Air or Navy you can serve anywhere, I.E. a Army 291'er serving on a ship. As for putting on the Army dress no real difference now between work dress for Army or Air other then the blue shit and beret.


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## ex-Highlander (11 Dec 2006)

gelan said:
			
		

> I'm pretty much in the same boat as Nate, I was 031 (3RCR) and previously held a Level 2 (secret) security clearance. Will that speed things up, or will it not matter?
> 
> That's a lot of crap to remember, and a couple of the places I lived in, I don't know who I lived beside because I kept to myself, and didn't really get to know anyone...


As sigtech already pointed out, already having your Level 2 will help the process and yes, it's always a pain.   And note what he said about keeping at least one copy of your clearance forms!  It will be invaluable when (not if....WHEN) you have to do them again.  And again...and again.   : ;D

When I got into the 291 trade I had already lived in a myriad of different places, a number of which were also inhabited by "neighbours" who were temporary at best.  I was the only person on my course to get recoursed (and solely due to my clearance to boot...my typing and morse were just fine) and it took about a year for it to come in, which was long-ish at that time.  There were other factors though, so I doubt your lack of....er..."sociability"   ;D will slow things down too badly.  Good luck with everything...


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## sigtech (14 Dec 2006)

Waiting is a good thing it builds character


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## JBP (5 Feb 2007)

Anyone have any updates or info on when the next set of serials is starting for the trade course? Or the next couple of courses that are running throughout the 1st half of the year?

Joe


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## orange.paint (5 Feb 2007)

nate said:
			
		

> Another question I hope someone can answer.  I know 291 is a purple trade, so will I have any say in what element I want to serve in, or is that completely up to someone else?
> thanks,
> nate



My wife chose army as her choice and had no problems getting it.At leitrim for a while you would see all the master seaman/etc walking around in combats....however they got a new SSM...made all navy and airforce wear the 3B's while the army guys wore combats to work. 

....side note I never saw parade boots actually brown in places before.....CFS Leitrim function in the Jr's mess....uuuhhhhhhg.

However that was a couple years ago.

Just a little side note their SSM had to be the nicest man I ever met in my life,never had a SSM come up and introduce himself as "fred"(I believe it was).Good bunch of guys...and man could they drink.

Oh and they had casual thursdays during the night shift at that time.Proper civilian attire....no really.


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## Pte. Pixley (8 Apr 2007)

The waiting game is good... if you put it to good use...

I'm one of the lucky people in French class for example... waiting for the clearance. If you take the time as a chance to save some cash before going on to Ottawa, and a chance to learn more before you leave it is wonderful.


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## JBP (8 Apr 2007)

Well I believe the May 17th Sig Op course is full to the brim to say the least... Next one is tentatively August 13th! ...

See some of you then! I'm suppose to be loaded onto that course. I just hope it doesn't get pushed back to a further date!!!


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## EW (8 Apr 2007)

".....Oh and they had casual thursdays during the night shift at that time.Proper civilian attire....no really...."

Just some notes.  The civi's on Mid watches was to put the shifts on an equal footing with the day staff.  Since units in the National Capital Region (NCR) wore civi's on Fridays, the shifts were permitted to wear appropriate civi attire.

Those days are gone - not for everyone in the NCR but certainly for Leitrim.  The dress for Army/Air all ranks is combats 24/7.  Navy just switched from combats to the equivilant naval dress.

The current Station Warrant Officer would definetly not take well to someone calling him by his first name.  I dare say that the reaction would be atomic.  

Cheers


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## gelan (17 Apr 2007)

Anyone have any intel on the next 291 serial that's starting? I'm waiting word from the Recruiting Centre about my standing with the merit board, but haven't heard anything yet. I was told that I probably wouldn't be given an offer until close to when I would be courseloaded, but they have no clue as to when that might be... I just really hope it's sometime this freaking year... *laugh*


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## kas (18 Apr 2007)

Some kind soul on army.ca pulled this info off the DIN for me, so I would hope it's fairly accurate. I'm leaving for Kingston next week and I'm hoping I've been loaded onto the first serial, because its quite the wait until they teach the course next....

Good luck!

kas.

---

291 COMM RESEARCH QL3 PART 1
00213E
30-Apr-07
18-Jul-07

291 COMM RESEARCH QL3 PART 1
00223E
04-Sep-07
16-Nov-07

291 COMM RESEARCH QL3 PART 1
00233E
02-Oct-07
14-Dec-07

291 COMM RESEARCH QL3 PART 1
00243E
26-Nov-07
22-Feb-08

291 COMM RESEARCH QL3 PART 1
00253E
08-Jan-08
20-Mar-08


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## gelan (18 Apr 2007)

Kas, MUCH appreciated! I REALLY hope that i get my call soon... argh, though I don't think I'll be loaded on that course... that really sucks. I've been cut back in hours at my current job, and they may lay me off soon, because they know i'm going to be leaving soon anyway... but if  I'm noit going until the summer, then I'm going to be royally screwed...

Thanks again for the info!


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## aesop081 (18 Apr 2007)

gelan said:
			
		

> Kas, MUCH appreciated! I REALLY hope that i get my call soon... argh, though I don't think I'll be loaded on that course... that really sucks. I've been cut back in hours at my current job, and they may lay me off soon, because they know i'm going to be leaving soon anyway... but if  I'm noit going until the summer, then I'm going to be royally screwed...
> 
> Thanks again for the info!



Lesson #1 : If you have a job and apply to the CF, dont tell your employer you are leaving unless you have been sworn in and have dates.....you might need money in between now and then
or just in case you dont get in

 :


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## gelan (18 Apr 2007)

It's kind of hard when it's my dad's business and I'm helping him out. He's not getting any work from his main client anymore, so he just can't afford to pay me right now. I understanding what you're saying CDN Aviator, but in my case it's unavoidable.


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## justascubadiver (4 Jan 2008)

Really just the same question as when this topic was started. There are a few of us now in PRETC waiting and hoping we will be on a course soon. Anyone know when the courses run in 2008? How many people end up on one of these courses?

Cheers!


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## aesop081 (4 Jan 2008)

I dont know what you are going to get on this site for an answer but no matter what, please tell me you are going to ask your staff at PRETC.


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## justascubadiver (4 Jan 2008)

Absolutely!  As of right now there is no information available. That is why I thought I would randomly throw it out there. It is not overly important to find out either way, I will get there when I get there, but still passively looking for information has never hurt anyone.

Cheers!


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## gelan (4 Jan 2008)

There is a course starting on the 21st of jan, I believe, with another starting in february or march. Hang tight. You'll get to kingston soon.


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## justascubadiver (4 Jan 2008)

Thanks!


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## Kertys (28 Jun 2008)

Hello all 

I just finish my BMQ in St-Jean
Going to Bordon monday on PAT 

Does anyones know when the next course for 291 will start ?


ty


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## PuckChaser (28 Jun 2008)

Kertys said:
			
		

> Hello all
> 
> I just finish my BMQ in St-Jean
> Going to Bordon monday on PAT
> ...



You probably will not be on the next course, be prepared for at least a year on PAT to attain the security clearance required to do the QL3. If you're lucky, you might get posted to 2 EW and start working with the field arm of the 291 trade (and get big things like Driver Wheeled course out of the way).


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## JBP (28 Jun 2008)

They stopped making us wait for Security Clearances AAALLLOONNNNNNG time ago... 

I'm posted and done my 3's but I still don't have one, only Enhanced Reliability, which is being upgraded atm to TS. I was only at PRETC for 4 months, in which time I also completed my Driver Wheeled course and got qualifications on LSVW and MLVW. 

People waiting shouldn't have to wait TOO long! I would suggest keep politely inquiring about you're dates/future/courses at least once a week or every two weeks so you're face and name become familiar to the staff there. It helps...


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## PuckChaser (3 Jul 2008)

291 is a different hat when it comes to clearances. In the Op world, we can get away with "Clearance level pending" as long as we have ER, whereas the 291ers deal with information that absolutely requires a clearance beforehand.


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## aussiechangover (4 Jul 2008)

you can expect a bit of a wait for the 2nd part of the course depending on how long it takes to complete the clearance. myself personally have been waiting 8months for this and still no sign of that, i'm hoping for a course before Feb 09


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## roy528 (4 Jul 2008)

Kertys said:
			
		

> Hello all
> 
> I just finish my BMQ in St-Jean
> Going to Bordon monday on PAT
> ...






if you are lucky there is one august 25th then it takes about 6weeks to complete phase one then you wait for like 6-12months for your clearance


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## aussiechangover (4 Jul 2008)

Roy~Dawg said:
			
		

> if you are lucky there is one august 25th then it takes about 6weeks to complete phase one then you wait for like 6-12months for your clearance



and if your not so lucky it's Oct then Jan


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## Kertys (7 Jul 2008)

I guess i know but the end of this week. 
I have getting my English exam done in 2 day ...
then they will put me on the courses they told me if i pass


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## aussiechangover (8 Jul 2008)

be aware that there are others waiting for courses in front of you. just because you are told you're going on a course doesn't actually mean you'll be going straight away you may end up on PAT platoon for some time.


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## Ice97 (15 Jan 2009)

A level 3 security clearance does average 1 1/2 years.  Nothing anyone can do about it....they are just backed up.  I heard that there are close to 120 291er's done their Phase 1 waiting for a Clearance to go on their Upclass.  Finally got my clearance...as did a few friends who are on course with me.....all of us took 1 1/2 years for a clearance.  It's definately a waiting game....but the way I look at it is less time to promotion now


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