# Switching from DEO merit list to NCM application?



## ward0043 (11 Apr 2012)

Hey guys,

I am wondering if it is possible to switch from a DEO application that is currently merit listed, to a NCM application for the same trades? Would this involve some sort of paperwork to switch, or perhaps it would require redoing the entire process? Any insight would be appreciated.   


_*Background*_: I am currently merit listed as a DEO for the infantry and armour trades. However, my file manager informed me that they would not be hiring many Officers for my trades this year, and so my chances of getting in are slim to none. I feel that if I am eligible for the DEO position (the two Captains interviewing me told me I am exactly what they want), I would be considered a competitive applicant for the equivalent NCM trades, and thus more likely to get in to the CF. I do not mind taking the long route to reach my goals, I have heard from former members in the CF that the best officers were often NCM first.

_*Disclaimer*_: I tried finding my answer through the in site search function and through the Google search function. Furthermore, I am waiting for my file manager to contact me (he often takes 2+ weeks), and the recruiting centre never seems to have time to answer my calls.


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## blacktriangle (11 Apr 2012)

If you really want to be an officer, just wait.


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## Trick (11 Apr 2012)

Ha, I know we talked about this via PM, but for the sake of the discussion I'll post in here too.

From what I understand, while the Combat Arms is pretty full up, the situation is still (a little) better for officers than it is for NCMs. While there are some spots this year for NCMs, you'll be up against a HUGE number of applicants. I have a feeling you'd be waiting just as long if not longer. I could of course be wrong about that though.

Also, as far as I know, you can't just switch an officer application to an NCM one (or vice-versa). It will likely be a whole new application- which will slow you down even more.


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## estoguy (12 Apr 2012)

I remember asking about this last year when I took my stuff into the RC.  NCM and DEO are two separate things.  If you switch from one to the other, its very much like starting all over.


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## Allgunzblazing (12 Apr 2012)

Hi Ward, 

I've been meaning to send you a PM, because we're in much the same situation. 

My sincerest advice to you is to join a trade that you can see yourself in till retirement. Speak with any recruiter and they will say the same thing. Infantry Officer and Infantry Soldier are two different trades. On the other hand, the job description of an officer in the Reg Force is quite similar to his/ her Reserve counterpart. 

I had also considered going NCM only as a quicker way of joining the CF. All the staff I asked for advice at the RC, told me not to do do so. They cited two main reasons - 

1. Frustration: You may well be an NCM for a good many years. If you like it, then nothing could be better. However, if you don't like the job and are not able to gain a commission, you will be a frustrated member. The CF does not wish this. They want people to be self motivated and happy coming to work. Be aware that becoming an Officer from NCM is probably the toughest route one can take. 

2. Starting over: As estoguy correctly pointed out, if you decide to take the NCM route, it will need a fresh application. My guess is that they wont ask for another CFAT, if your current score is good enough. 

As for me, I have decided to join the Reserves. The RC staff have told me that openings for DEO Arty Officers are not likely this year. They said that openings might not come around anytime soon. I had anticipated this and had approached a Reserve Arty Regiment. I was honest and told them my situation. They put my through to their Officer Review Board, who in turn selected me. 

However, be aware that even tough there is no commitment with the Reserves, there is certainly an expectation. The unit invests a lot in getting a new officer trained. So it is natural that they expect their staff to stay for a few years, before they decide to CT. 

Cheers and all the best to you,

AGB.


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## Eye In The Sky (12 Apr 2012)

You have wayyyyyy to much advice for someone who isn't in yet, and shouldn't be offering your opinion as "fact" so much, IMO.


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## ward0043 (12 Apr 2012)

Hey Allgunzblazing, This is how I feel; 

1. I'm not sure what is worse, waiting a year+ as a civilian in a unrelated trade, or working for a year+ as a NCM. I feel like the NCM position would allow me to earn respect by showing them who I am. Ultimately, I do want to be the best possible Officer I can be,  so starting from the bottom and working my way up with hard work may be best for me.

2. Starting the application process over is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I mean, if they have my information on file for a Infantry Officer, the paper work will be easy. If I don't have to rewrite the CFAT, all that is left is a medical and interview, which will be pretty easy, I mean last time I did those on the same day.

3. Honestly the clunkiness of the reserve application process, and the personal testimonies of people on this site, I don't believe it is a good option for me. I mean I'm 24, I don't want to invest 3 years working part time, even if I have a full time job on the side, I feel like that would be a huge waste of time.


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## jemcgrg (13 Apr 2012)

I'm in the same boat. The trades I'm waiting on are still listed as open but they had a preselection process that took place in March and my file hadn't been reviewed so I'm waiting to see if there is any chance of getting in as a DEO this year. If not I am seriously considering ncm at this point. 

I will certainly try and commission from the ranks later but I know there is no guarentee that will happen so I am being very particular about what NCM trades I look into because I want to be happy there should I not be able to commission later.


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## Allgunzblazing (13 Apr 2012)

Eye In The Sky; 

All the "advice" that I have shared here is verbatim what has been told to me by Canadian Forces recruiting staff (Officers and NCMs) working at RCs and militia units. 

I keep a diary in which I record all that has happened during the day. Among other things, I make sure to note down my questions and exactly what has been told to me by recruiting staff, along with their rank and name. Before I post anything here, I always make sure to consult my diary to ascertain if what I'm reproducing is indeed as it was told to me. 

All that is spoken about here - Officer vs NCM, Reserve Vs Reg Force, etc have been my own queries to recruiting staff. That is why I am sharing what has been told to me. As for offering my opinion as "fact" - I am not a member of the CF, so when CF members who are MCCs/ Unit Recruiters tell me something, I take that as fact. 

I am again reiterating to all that I am not a member of the CF. For the most sound advice please contact the RCs.


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