# The Military Wedding Superthread- merged



## kaspacanada (10 Mar 2004)

My fiancee wants to know what a military wedding would be like in the Canadian Forces.  We are engaged and would like to look into getting married once I finish my training period: about two years (a year and a half of uni left first).  Anyone have any pics      or information they could pass on my way?

Thanks all.

Courson


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## Sh0rtbUs (10 Mar 2004)

i wouldnt be of any help here, but congrats


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## Michael OLeary (10 Mar 2004)

Male members of the wedding party would wear uniforms. Uniforms may also be acceptable dress for military guests. If you belong to a regiment or corps with full dress (scarlets) or blues, these would be acceptable. For an officer‘s wedding, other unit officers may form a sword arch outside the church doors for when the happy couple exits to meet their assembled guests. A dress sword may be used to cut the wedding cake at the reception (make sure it‘s well-cleaned before being put back in the scabbard, the icing can dry and seize it if you don‘t.)


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## Bruce Monkhouse (10 Mar 2004)

Many a newly married officer bit the dust because he could‘nt get his sabre out fast enough?


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## ErorZ (10 Mar 2004)

Bruce, HILARIOUS !!


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## Spr.Earl (11 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by kaspacanada:
> [qb] My fiancee wants to know what a military wedding would be like in the Canadian Forces.  We are engaged and would like to look into getting married once I finish my training period: about two years (a year and a half of uni left first).  Anyone have any pics        or information they could pass on my way?
> 
> Thanks all.
> ...


My Brother whent through the Formal Military request to marry.

First off,Yes there is in QRO‘s a form!!
My Brother sent his memo to his C.O. requesting permission to marry.!(98?)
Yes he got permission to marry!

My Bro.‘s stag in Pet, in the Coriano Club was ace.We won the Texas Mikie of C.C. that night
Our Mark punched out our Eric!!   
Laffed me arse off !!

Dave you are out there and you where there   
On my brother‘s wedding day all his friend‘s were there and surprised at his use of QRNO‘S!

His Troop O.C. is now the Lt.Gen in charge of Afgh. Multi National Force.

We had a good time that year at the Black Bay Hotel!


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## Franko (11 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by Bruce Monkhouse:
> [qb] Many a newly married officer bit the dust because he could‘nt get his sabre out fast enough?     [/qb]


Bruce...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Congrat BTW on you impending sentence..er..marrage   

Regards


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## George Wallace (11 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by Franko:
> [qb] Congrat BTW on you impending sentence..er..marrage
> 
> Regards [/qb]


......er....Change of Command Ceremony.   

GW


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## kaspacanada (11 Mar 2004)

lol...impending sentence...er....change of command ceremony....lol


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## Yes Man (13 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by Michael OLeary:
> [qb] If you belong to a regiment or corps with full dress (scarlets) or blues, these would be acceptable.[/qb]


Are there different dress uniforms in the army?
If so, would you be able to link me to a picture?


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## Infanteer (13 Mar 2004)

Search on this site.  You‘ll find a 5 page discussion on Corps specific uniforms.


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## ungerwear (13 Mar 2004)

I had a sort of mil wedding. As a member of a highland unit, I wore my reg‘tal kilt with a scottish tux top. My two ushers wore mess kit and the pipe major piped in my wife wearing his mess kit. The wedding was held at the reg‘tal church, presided by the padre, and the reception was help in the officer‘s mess.

If you are interested, check out the website we created for our wedding, there are photos.
 http://www.w3m.net/sophieandrob/ 

Good luck!


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## Infanteer (13 Mar 2004)

Hey ungerwear, great pictures.  Welcome to the site, you should find you‘ll fit in here.


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## Yes Man (14 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by Infanteer:
> [qb] Search on this site.  You‘ll find a 5 page discussion on Corps specific uniforms. [/qb]


I looked, from what I can tell there are DEU‘s (not sure what it stands for) mess dress, and full dress, but I can‘t find a piture of what mess dress and full dress look like.


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## DogOfWar (14 Mar 2004)

They‘ll teach you on BMQ. Heres a question for the married guys- How do you make it work? Im going to get married next year and my fiancee is a little apprehensive about being a soldiers wife....


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## chrisp1j (14 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by kaspacanada:
> [qb] lol...impending sentence...er....change of command ceremony....lol [/qb]


Hahaha...he thinks you guys are joking.


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## George Wallace (14 Mar 2004)

> Originally posted by The WetGrunt:
> [qb]  Heres a question for the married guys- How do you make it work? Im going to get married next year and my fiancee is a little apprehensive about being a soldiers wife.... [/qb]


Lot‘s of work.  Does she know any other spouses or girlfriends?  Has she met any other Military families?  Have you taken her to any functions at the Unit or on Base?

GW


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## combat_medic (17 Mar 2004)

YesMan: DEU stands for Distinctive Environmental Uniform. It‘s a throwback to the days when there were greens and tans.

WetGrunt: To make any marriage work, you have to make IT your priority. If you‘re having problems that need to be sorted out RIGHT NOW, then that has to come first. Make sure she knows (tell her lots, girls love that) that she‘s the most important thing to you, and be prepared to miss an exercise or training opportunity if you both can‘t make it work. That being said, she needs to understand that the military will take you away from her from time to time, and that she needs to be prepared for that. This is making the assumption that you‘re going into the reserves... you didn‘t specify otherwise. 

To be honest, some people don‘t make both work and either leave the military or break up over it, but typically these people have other issues in addition.

Ungerwear: nice to see you on the board, and congrats on the marriage/baby!


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## one_speed (1 Sep 2009)

Hey all,

Looking for some input from some serving members who have been around longer than I have.  I'm not going to be at my unit lines for a few weeks, otherwise I'd look up the info in the Dress and Parade manual for myself.

I'm recently engaged and am getting married next June (2010) D-day +1  ,  I have gotten permission from my CO to wear my uniform / mess kit for my wedding and I'm pretty keen on getting some details of what I should be getting arranged.

I'm a Reserve Officer (Nurse) serving x 5 years with a Field Ambulance currently a Lieutenant, but will have my promotion to Captain this fall.

I'm planning on DEU during the day for the ceremony and pictures and then Mess kit for the evening.  What about head dress?  Is it normal for the green shirt and tie, or tux shirt and bow tie.  I've worn a sword on parade, is it usual to wear a ceremonial sword as an officer in this situation

Any input would greatly help in the planning process.  Links (non DIN) to the appropriate dress regs would be extremely helpful. 

Regards, 

Ian


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## Gunner98 (1 Sep 2009)

CF Dress Instructions as well as Drill and Ceremonial (Intenet) http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/10_2_3.asp


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## Neill McKay (1 Sep 2009)

one_speed said:
			
		

> I've worn a sword on parade, is it usual to wear a ceremonial sword as an officer in this situation



I think swords are generally not worn inside a church, so if that's the venue for your wedding it may influence your decision.  The thing to do in that case might be to leave it in the vestibule and put it on on the way out.


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## Gunner98 (1 Sep 2009)

A sword arch upon exit from the chapel by a 'guard of honor' composed of uniformed friends is a custom and is a memorable touch.  See page 6-1-19 of drill and ceremonial manual.

Page 2A-2 of dress manual states that No.1 or No. 1A are appropriate for wear at formal military weddings.  

Page 3-7-9, para. 23. Officers, chief petty officers first class (CPO1) and chief warrant officers wear swords or pistols when so ordered. Non-commissioned members other than CPO1s and chief warrant officers may also be ordered to wear swords or pistols when unit custom so dictates.

Grooms don't usually wear a sword during the wedding ceremony as it is too awkward.


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## Journeyman (1 Sep 2009)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> Grooms don't usually wear a sword during the wedding ceremony as it is too awkward.


 And in hindsight, you may just beat yourself up for not having used it when you had the chance   ;D


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## Strike (1 Sep 2009)

WRT the swords, don't know the answer.  I was told, however, that it is bad luck for the wedding party to wear mess kit during the ceremony itself and that mess kit should be reserved for the pictures and reception.


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## Otis (2 Sep 2009)

In my experience, I would suggest bow tie all day (therefore foregoing the need to keep track of headdress all day long) instead of the issued tie. It is a ceremonial occasion and therefore #2 order of dress would be appropriate (though traditionalists will argue that the #2 order should not be worn at all before 1800hrs, but it's your wedding, do what you please)


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## dapaterson (2 Sep 2009)

Otis said:
			
		

> but it's your _*wife's*_ wedding, do what you please *are told*)



Fixed that for you...


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## Neill McKay (2 Sep 2009)

Simian Turner said:
			
		

> A sword arch upon exit from the chapel by a 'guard of honor' composed of uniformed friends is a custom and is a memorable touch.



I've had the privilege of participating in this and can say that it makes for a very striking display.



			
				Otis said:
			
		

> traditionalists will argue that the #2 order should not be worn at all before 1800hrs, but it's your wedding, do what you please



I'm one of those traditionalists who maintains that mess kit is the equivalent of black tie and it's a faux pas to wear it before 1800.  But given that very odd tuxedo-influenced garments are routinely worn at day-time weddings these days I can't say that it would be terribly strange to see the same done with mess kit.

It's ultimately up to the couple; this is one of the few days in their lives that they will have almost complete control over!


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## Otis (20 Sep 2009)

My buddy wore high-collar whites for his wedding, while I wore Mess Kit as the best man. The wedding was in the afternnon on a farm!

The way we looked at it ... it made the Bride happy, we all looked nice, and in 20 years - looking at the wedding photos - who's going to remember what time tha damn wedding was anyway?


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## Trinity (20 Sep 2009)

I just had my (Cough)... wife's wedding I mean in May in Borden and I wore Mess Dress.  It looks excellent with the red doeskin.


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## Pusser (28 Oct 2009)

Normal etiquette dictates that mess kit is evening wear and should not be worn before 1800.  Despite most mess kits having a black tie, it is actually the equivalent of the civilian "white tie" order of formal dress, which also includes tails.  A tuxedo (with its black tie), by the way, is considered semi-formal.  We no longer use mess "undress," which would be the military equivalent to a tuxedo. 

Strictly speaking, a daytime wedding ceremony should be conducted in No 1 (ie. uniform shirt, standard tie, medals and sword) or 1A (same as above without sword).  An alternative would be if you are a member of a regiment that has a regimental uniform (eg. a red-coated infantry regiment).

There is no strict taboo against wearing swords in church.  People have been doing it for centuries.  You may wish to check with the church in question though as they may have a local policy.  I wore a sword (as did my ushers) for my wedding and it looked great!  You just have to be careful when moving around, especially if there is any kneeling involved.  My wedding was in a Catholic basilica, with a full mass and lots of stone steps.  The arch of swords (edges up) is a nice touch and makes for great pictures.

It is OK to wear mess kit for the reception, if it takes place after 1800, but their is no requirement to do so.  I have been to weddings where people changed into mess kits and others where they didn't.   As a personal recommendation though, if you don't have or don't want to buy a proper mess kit, I wouldn't bother changing into a white shirt and bow tie and swapping medals for ribbons (medals are not worn with interim mess kit - miniatures are worn with proper mess kit).  If you want to wear a mess kit at your wedding, spend the bucks and get a proper one.  It looks better and you'll be glad you did when you see the pictures later.  If you're worried about the cost, just consider what your bride will spend on her dress.  Shouldn't you be allowed to do the same in this modern world of equality of the sexes?  Did I just say that!?

For my wedding, my bride bought a dress and I bought a sword (I already had the uniforms).

Whatever you do, DO NOT wear a sword with mess kit (yes, I've seen it done and it is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG).  If you're going to cut the cake with your sword (which is really cool) and you're wearing mess kit at the time, just have the sword placed on the table beforehand.  Don't wear it.  On another note, make sure you clean off the sword both before and after cutting the cake.  The icing will do a number on the blade finish.

Congratulations and good luck.


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## Rheostatic (28 Oct 2009)

Great post, thanks for this.


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## Monsoon (28 Oct 2009)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Normal etiquette dictates that mess kit is evening wear and should not be worn before 1800.  Despite most mess kits having a black tie, it is actually the equivalent of the civilian "white tie" order of formal dress, which also includes tails.  A tuxedo (with its black tie), by the way, is considered semi-formal.  We no longer use mess "undress," which would be the military equivalent to a tuxedo.


As it was explained to me (in a naval context - I can't speak to dress/undress in the army), the dress is white tie equivalent when worn with the white vest. When worn with a black vest or cummerbund, it's black tie (and, hence, "undress").


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## gcclarke (28 Oct 2009)

hamiltongs said:
			
		

> As it was explained to me (in a naval context - I can't speak to dress/undress in the army), the dress is white tie equivalent when worn with the white vest. When worn with a black vest or cummerbund, it's black tie (and, hence, "undress").



And then of course the Navy's also got the concept of the High Collared Whites to mess things up even more. Were the OP a Naval officer, I'd suggest going with that for the daytime / ceremony, and switching to the regular mess kit for the reception. But alas, it's never that simple.


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## eurowing (29 Oct 2009)

>  For those who wore Mess Dress, I bet you looked rather dashing!  Those who wore kitchen wares...  can I see the pictures?  I am trying to figure out how the ladies could cover-up  ;D


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## Pusser (2 Nov 2009)

As it was explained to me (in a naval context - I can't speak to dress/undress in the army), the dress is white tie equivalent when worn with the white vest. When worn with a black vest or cummerbund, it's black tie (and, hence, "undress").

Right you are.  Another difference is that "undress" also had plain trousers (without gold stripes or "lighting rods").  Mess Undress comes from an era when most naval officers lived onboard and wore it to dinner in the Wardroom every night.  This is obviously no longer the case and thus the reason that Mess Undress is no longer used.


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## Monsoon (2 Nov 2009)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Right you are.  Another difference is that "undress" also had plain trousers (without gold stripes or "lighting rods").  Mess Undress comes from an era when most naval officers lived onboard and wore it to dinner in the Wardroom every night.  This is obviously no longer the case and thus the reason that Mess Undress is no longer used.


Meaning that we just adopted the "lightning rod" pants (rather than "tuxedo" pants) for our black tie equivalent, as I understand it. Makes us look a bit strange when mess dining with the RN, who really only wear the mess "dress" at dinners where a member of the royal family is present.


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## Pusser (15 Nov 2009)

It's my understanding that the RN and RAN (RNZN as well?) have dropped the lightning rods altogether for everyone except Flag Officers.


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## one_speed (28 Nov 2009)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Normal etiquette dictates that mess kit is evening wear and should not be worn before 1800.  Despite most mess kits having a black tie, it is actually the equivalent of the civilian "white tie" order of formal dress, which also includes tails.  A tuxedo (with its black tie), by the way, is considered semi-formal.  We no longer use mess "undress," which would be the military equivalent to a tuxedo.
> 
> Strictly speaking, a daytime wedding ceremony should be conducted in No 1 (ie. uniform shirt, standard tie, medals and sword) or 1A (same as above without sword).  An alternative would be if you are a member of a regiment that has a regimental uniform (eg. a red-coated infantry regiment).
> 
> ...



Hey, thanks to all that replied very helpful comments..

My plans at present are to wear my DEU  (Army) with Tux shirt and Bow tiefor the Wedding.

My promotion is coming through soon (to Captain) so I'll wait to get a new uniform for nice clean tailoring.  Mess kit is still an option for dinner and reception but it'll be greens for the ceremony and pictures.  I'm holding out as an LT, but once the promotion does pass I would really like to get my Mess kit  together.

Sword will also be present for the ceremony and pictures.

I'm an NO and am aware of the protocols with us Medical types and swords.

We are planning a sword arch on exiting the church with several of my friends attending (1 LCol, 3 Maj, and 1 Capt) as well as our Piper of course.    I have heard  different numbers of officers are required to do a proper arch (depending on the source of course).  Any suggestions ?



Ian


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## 30 for 30 (28 Nov 2009)

So you are in DEU, sword, and bow tie for the ceremony? Sounds odd. Best option would be the normal necktie for this dress.


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## one_speed (29 Nov 2009)

You're right, I was thinking about thsi last night after posting.  This would constitute mess kit wouldn't it ?  

I'll have to wait and see, but of course if I go with the sword I'd be in DEU with straight tie and regular shirt...


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## Pusser (3 Dec 2009)

Go for the sword.  Swords are cool and are in fact one of an officer's badges of office.  As for medical officers and swords, I'm not aware of any restrictions.  Medical personnel are allowed weapons for personal protection (as well as that of their patients and hospitals as far as I know).  The Royal Navy even had a specific pattern for surgeons at one point.  You might want to check to see if the Medical Branch uses a specific pattern.  If not, there is a universal pattern (i.e. infantry) for use of branches that don't have one of their own.

If you're interested in buying one, you might want to look at:  http://www.pooleysword.com/ or http://www.wkc-solingen.de/newshop/index.html.  These are the companies that purchased all of Wilkinson Sword's equipment and patterns when they stopped making swords a few years ago.  I'd like to point out that the prices have come down considerably from when Wilkinson still did it.


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## blondie55 (6 Aug 2011)

Hi! My fiance is starting basic training in Sept for infantry. We are getting married civilly at city hall next week, but are trying to plan an actual wedding for next fall, but I'm concerned that if I book a venue and he can't come home for it - alot of money will be wasted? I do believe if we had it in between 13-14 months from now, he would be done his training. Would they allow him time off for his own wedding? Advice? Thoughts? Thanks!


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## Bruce Monkhouse (6 Aug 2011)

Don't book anything until he is a lot furthur along...........


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## Nauticus (6 Aug 2011)

blondie55 said:
			
		

> Hi! My fiance is starting basic training in Sept for infantry. We are getting married civilly at city hall next week, but are trying to plan an actual wedding for next fall, but I'm concerned that if I book a venue and he can't come home for it - alot of money will be wasted? I do believe if we had it in between 13-14 months from now, he would be done his training. Would they allow him time off for his own wedding? Advice? Thoughts? Thanks!


There's no guarantees, and it's quite possible that he would not be granted time off.

Govern yourself accordingly.


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## PuckChaser (6 Aug 2011)

Even when you're established in a unit, the Army will find ways to add stress to the wedding. I started planning my wedding November last year, after checking my unit's training calender and seeing IBTS booked for August. September seemed perfect. In March, after a thousand or so dollars in downpayments, IBTS moves to September, and makes it look like we're working a weekend... thankfully its all run locally which is a switch the last 3 years here.

Wait till your Fiance is at a unit, and plan about a year ahead. Have him notify his chain of command early, and they should try to make sure he doesn't get tasked for that weekend.


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## jeffb (6 Aug 2011)

Remember if he's just going off to BMQ there is a chance that he won't even be in the CF 13-14 months from now. It is not unheard of for people to not be successful. I got married in a brief period between BMOQ-L and DP 1.1 and it was very tricky to organize the planning. As it was, I got married in Gagetown, NB and was in Shilo, MB for 11 weeks, two weeks after our wedding. Had the dates on my course been moved up just a few weeks, I would have missed my own wedding. 

The best advice has already been given. Wait until he's done his training and posted to a Regiment. Once there, you should have some better sense or normalcy to your lives or at the very least, someone who will be able to provide better advice to your fiance around good timing for this rather then us randoms on the internet.  

Best of luck!


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## blondie55 (6 Aug 2011)

Thank you for all your advice! It all really sucks - as we don't want to wait that long, but it's probably for the best.


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## PuckChaser (6 Aug 2011)

blondie55 said:
			
		

> Thank you for all your advice! It all really sucks - as we don't want to wait that long, but it's probably for the best.



It seems like the wait will be long, but trust me: The stress of planning a wedding while your fiance is on course is not something you'll want to deal with. Wedding planning is stressful enough.


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## Cpo2 Burden (22 Oct 2011)

Hi All, 

I'm getting married this coming Friday and I'm wondering if it would be considered appropriate to wear my uniform also what should be worn with it (ceremonial belt, gloves, peaked cap/beret etc.). I've looked through the dress regs and have only found that it is permitted, but not how to wear it. I'm a naval officer if that's important. Thanks in advance.

-Matt


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## mariomike (22 Oct 2011)

This may help.

Topic: DEU / Mess Kit for my Wedding (Groom):
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/88873.0


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## brihard (22 Oct 2011)

Pants are generally encouraged.  ;D

Um, but anyway. You'll need permission from your chain of command, but for weddings it's typically not something they should have a problem with. Ask them what's appropriate for an OCdt to wear in terms of accoutrements- but with weddings being 'black tie' appropriate events, 'as nice as you've got' usually suffices. My dad did his most recent marriage in mess dress.


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## Cpo2 Burden (22 Oct 2011)

Thanks everyone!, this was the exactly information I was looking for; I'll see what I can find out from my command.

-Matt


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## Pusser (23 Oct 2011)

OK, I'll weigh in on this as a naval officer, who got married in uniform, has attended uniform weddings and has actually researched the subject:

1)  You do not need permission to get married in uniform.  You're a member of the CF.  You're allowed to wear your uniform on appropriate occasions.

2)  The only accoutrements worn by naval officers are swords.  Yes, you can wear a sword to a wedding (in fact it's cool if all your military friends wear them too so they can form an arch for you and your bride to leave the church through).  Yes, you can normally wear a sword inside the church (the idea you can't bring weapons into church is pure bollocks - the history of Christianity is full of weapons in churches); however, you may want to check with the priest/pastor/minister on that one.  I have no idea about synagogues, mosques or other temples.

3)  A white ceremonial belt is not an appropriate accoutrement for a naval officer (notwithstanding that NCdts on BMOQ training will often wear them).  Naval officers' sword belts are BLACK and are worn UNDER the tunic (the sword is not hooked up, but rather carried in the left hand - if the sword is drawn, then you can hook up the scabbard, again, under the tunic).  Wipe the frosting off the blade after cutting the cake, otherwise the blade will rust.

4)  Mess dress is NOT appropriate for a wedding unless the ceremony takes place after 1800.  If the ceremony takes place before 1800, you should wear N1 or N1A for the ceremony, but you can change to Mess Dress for the reception (if it occurs after 1800).  Don't even think about wearing a beret - that's just wrong on so many levels

5)  Hoisting a garland of evergreens from your ship's yardarm on the day of the ceremony is traditional and cool!


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## gcclarke (23 Oct 2011)

An annendum to point 4) If the ceremony is before 1800, wear high collar whites. Because, hey, what other bloody situation are you ever going to find where they'll be appropriate?


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## Journeyman (23 Oct 2011)

Based on experience with my training marriage, wear running shoes.....and run fast.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (23 Oct 2011)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> training marriage



Along with his dozens of training 'you-could-be-nexts'.


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## Edward Campbell (23 Oct 2011)

Have you asked the bride?

Based on my limited experience in these matters, brides often:

1. Have very, very firm ideas about what they want demand on *their very special* day; and

2. Will not tolerate even the slightest deviation (from the plan, that is). (Deviant conduct after the reception is another matter ...)

Assuming the bride likes the uniform:

1. Are your groomsmen also in the Navy? Will you have Navy friends attending? If so can you get enough swords for a bridal arch from your unit? Brides (mostly) love that and will forgive your intrusion inti *her very special* day if you provide one.

2. The advice re: how to wear a sword, 1800Hrs and whites is all good.


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## Journeyman (23 Oct 2011)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Along with his dozens of training 'you-could-be-nexts'.


Hey, it's a simple matter of priorities; with every deployment I lost a woman, but got a better motorcycle.   :nod:

....we now return you to the wedding fashion discussion (since the groom is determined not to run while he has the chance) :facepalm:


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## FlyingDutchman (23 Oct 2011)

My advice, grab her, run to Vegas, find a drive through chapel, and wear what ever she wants.


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## mariomike (23 Oct 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> My advice, grab her, run to Vegas, find a drive through chapel, and wear what ever she wants.



"She sounds like a lovely person who deserves a good husband. Marry her before she finds one." 

Just kidding. Congratulations, and good luck!


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## FlyingDutchman (23 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> OK, I'll weigh in on this as a naval officer, who got married in uniform, has attended uniform weddings and has actually researched the subject:
> 
> 1)  You do not need permission to get married in uniform.  You're a member of the CF.  You're allowed to wear your uniform on appropriate occasions.



While we're on the subject, what other occasions would be considered appropriate occasions?


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## mariomike (23 Oct 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> While we're on the subject, what other occasions would be considered appropriate occasions?



I don't know what the rules are, but when our father passed away, I asked my sister to wear her uniform because I know he was very proud of her.


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## Pusser (23 Oct 2011)

gcclarke said:
			
		

> An annendum to point 4) If the ceremony is before 1800, wear high collar whites. Because, hey, what other bloody situation are you ever going to find where they'll be appropriate?



Except that the OP seems to be saying that he's getting married on Friday, 28 October, which fall in the winter dress period.  You can't wear whites in the winter dress period unless you're in the tropics.  High collar whites are not an option for an October wedding in Canada.


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## gcclarke (24 Oct 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Except that the OP seems to be saying that he's getting married on Friday, 28 October, which fall in the winter dress period.  You can't wear whites in the winter dress period unless you're in the tropics.  High collar whites are not an option for an October wedding in Canada.



Curses. Foiled again by a LogO pulling a regulation out of his back pocket! And yes, of course, silly me.


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## Danjanou (24 Oct 2011)

mburden said:
			
		

> ..... I'm getting married this coming Friday.....



Now maybe it's just me but I think this is the crucial part of the post. All these niggly little details should already have been worked out long ago, especially in light of Mr. Campbell's sound and sage advice re the Brides edicts  er wishes. 

If not I'd be going with Journeyman's suggestions.  8)


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## Pusser (24 Oct 2011)

gcclarke said:
			
		

> Curses. Foiled again by a LogO pulling a regulation out of his back pocket! And yes, of course, silly me.



That's who I am.  It's what I do.    :nod:


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## Haggis (24 Oct 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> My advice, grab her, run to Vegas, find a drive through chapel, and wear what ever she wants.



Maybe Journeyman can loan you a motorcycle.  Then, wear whatever you want - but bring the sword.  8)

Yes, I'm from NDHQ - and I'm here to help.


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## ballz (24 Oct 2011)

Danjanou said:
			
		

> Now maybe it's just me but I think this is the crucial part of the post. All these niggly little details should already have been worked out long ago, especially in light of Mr. Campbell's sound and sage advice re the Brides edicts  er wishes.
> 
> If not I'd be going with Journeyman's suggestions.  8)



I was MC for a wedding July 30. About 1800 on July 29 the bride kicked me out of the B&G's house when she learned the groom still hadn't written his vows... to the tune of "and take the god d**m rum with you!"


----------



## Blatchman (25 Oct 2011)

> (the sword is not hooked up, but rather carried in the left hand - if the sword is drawn, then you can hook up the scabbard, again, under the tunic).



Is it acceptable to hook up the sword briefly while exchanging rings?



> Hoisting a garland of evergreens from your ship's yardarm on the day of the ceremony is traditional and cool!



What if you are currently attached to a shore posting?

I ask these questions as I too am taking the plunge next year and have done some research into this, these are the only questions I have yet answered or confirmed my thoughts.


----------



## Edward Campbell (25 Oct 2011)

Blatch said:
			
		

> Is it acceptable to hook up the sword briefly while exchanging rings?
> 
> What if you are currently attached to a shore posting?
> 
> I ask these questions as I too am taking the plunge next year and have done some research into this, these are the only questions I have yet answered or confirmed my thoughts.




I'll leave someone else to deal with Navy swords - in the Army, back when I was a junior officer and the earth was still cooling, most people left their swords hang for the few moments it too to exchange rings, kisses, etc.

If your shore establishment, the unit to which you belong, has the right sort of flag pole - the one with bits of wood and lots of ropes attached   - then I'm guessing that the garland should be hung there. Right. sailors?


----------



## OldSolduer (25 Oct 2011)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> I'll leave someone else to deal with Navy swords - in the Army, back when I was a junior officer and the earth was still cooling, most people left their swords hang for the few moments it too to exchange rings, kisses, etc.
> 
> If your shore establishment, the unit to which you belong, has the right sort of flag pole - the one with bits of wood and lots of ropes attached   - then I'm guessing that the garland should be hung there. Right. sailors?



Did ye utter the word "Sword"? Arrrrrrrrr mateys!! Wherrre's the rum?


----------



## Edward Campbell (25 Oct 2011)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Did ye utter the word "Sword"? Arrrrrrrrr mateys!! Wherrre's the rum?




And the lash and the ... oh forget about it.


----------



## Pusser (25 Oct 2011)

Blatch said:
			
		

> Is it acceptable to hook up the sword briefly while exchanging rings?
> 
> What if you are currently attached to a shore posting?
> 
> I ask these questions as I too am taking the plunge next year and have done some research into this, these are the only questions I have yet answered or confirmed my thoughts.



Just let the sword hang while you do the ring thing (that's what I did).  While you certainly don't want to walk around with a sword hanging loose, you should be fine for the few seconds it takes to attach the ball and chain slip on the symbol of your love (unless there's a pirouette involved).

As for the garland, if you have an appropriate place to hoist it, great, but I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it.  It's a tradition, not a law.


----------



## Pusser (25 Oct 2011)

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> And the lash and the ... oh forget about it.



I'm confused.  Is there a problem with this?  It all seems perfectly natural to me.


----------



## Cpo2 Burden (25 Oct 2011)

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. In response to some of the posts, I don't have a sword yet, I've decided not to get one until I'm promoted same with the whites I'm also the only military person attending so no sword arch. My wife to be says as long as I wear pants she's happy it's more the mother of the bride that would make running off to Vegas a good idea, although going to Vegas is always a good idea.


----------



## FlyingDutchman (25 Oct 2011)

You don't like your (soon to be) in laws? Why do I seem to be the only person who likes their in laws?


----------



## my72jeep (25 Oct 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> You don't like your (soon to be) in laws? Why do I seem to be the only person who likes their in laws?


Hell I like my current ones great pair, but boy was the last pair, well her mom what a laugh a second basket nut case. good luck this weekend.


----------



## Jimmy_D (26 Oct 2011)

If that's the case, get you wife to be's father go rent a nickle plated shot gun, and get him to stand behind you the WHOLE CEREMONY. But for god sake's don't let him have any ammo. ;D


----------



## Edward Campbell (26 Oct 2011)

mburden said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the great feedback guys. In response to some of the posts, I don't have a sword yet, I've decided not to get one until I'm promoted same with the whites I'm also the only military person attending so no sword arch. My wife to be says as long as I wear pants she's happy it's more the mother of the bride that would make running off to Vegas a good idea, although going to Vegas is always a good idea.




Best wishes and good luck to you and your bride. We all hope you have a great wedding and, more important, a happy life together. In the big scheme of things weddings are pretty small change, despite all the angst some endure. Have fun.


----------



## Infanteer (19 Nov 2011)

Pusser said:
			
		

> 4)  Mess dress is NOT appropriate for a wedding unless the ceremony takes place after 1800.  If the ceremony takes place before 1800, you should wear N1 or N1A for the ceremony, but you can change to Mess Dress for the reception (if it occurs after 1800).  Don't even think about wearing a beret - that's just wrong on so many levels



It's funny, I rechecked and No.2 Mess Dress is still considered "evening dress" in the regulations in that it is only to be worn after 1800.  That being said, as Edward Campbell mentioned once, the old conceptions of dinner and dress are dying a proper death and Victorian norms are not really relevant.  A-AD-265-000 Is probably in need of a revision to reflect this.

I wore Mess Dress to my wedding and it started at noon.  I wore it because my Regiment does not have Full Dress and No.1 - being DEUs - simply looked too casual (even though it is prescribed for such an occasion) compared to my groomsmen who were wearing the civilian black tie equivlent of mess dress (black tie).  My Best Man was actually wearing Morning Dress throughout the event and into the evening because it looked slick and would have been silly (and costly) to have him change.  So, many faux pas that would have been inexcusable in Edwardian times, but in the end we all looked fine in the 21st century.

That being said, if our Army had an proper issue of Full Dress, then I would have worn it because it is sharp.  But that's just me.

Edit to add:  Here's a high-minded site if anyone cares about buttons and bows.

http://www.blacktieguide.com/index.html

Note:  _The protocol of reserving the dinner jacket and tailcoat for wear after six is self-evident in Britain which has maintained the elegant custom of morning dress, a category of clothing designated specifically for formal daytime events.  On the other side of the Atlantic, however, formal day clothes have all but disappeared since World War II and in their absence most North Americans have come to view the tuxedo and tailcoat erroneously as all-purpose “formalwear” and commonly sport it at afternoon weddings.  Consequently, the proper use of evening wear has become a habit generally confined to the privileged minority that attend black-tie events often enough to view the tuxedo as an integral part of a man’s wardrobe rather than as a rented novelty._

Guess my wedding was just a low-class gathering of yokels with rented novelties...the horror!!!


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## Fishbone Jones (20 Nov 2011)

If you have Mess Kit, wear it whenever you want. You paid for it, you own it, you decide when to wear it.

I've worn Mess Kit prior to 18:00 and Walking Out Dress (Patrols) after 18:00. 

The world didn't stop.


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## FlyingDutchman (8 Dec 2011)

Its a bit late now, but for any future people considering this my wife brought up a good point.  A good thing to consider is how fast you can get out of what your wearing.


----------



## Danjanou (8 Dec 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> Its a bit late now, but for any future people considering this my wife brought up a good point.  A good thing to consider is how fast you can get out of what your wearing.



That's why my wife liked the fact I wore a kilt. 8)


----------



## X Royal (9 Dec 2011)

FlyingDutchman said:
			
		

> A good thing to consider is how fast you can get out of what your wearing.


I agree no use wasting any time getting out of those more formal clothes and getting into a pair shorts and t-shirt with the cooler full of beer.
No use not showing her right off the bat what the future holds.


----------



## chadk (29 May 2012)

Hi.  I am wondering if the Canadian Forces has any Wedding traditions.  I am an NCM in the Navy and  plan on proposing to my girlfriend.  I really like the idea of a traditional military wedding ceremony.  Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## chrisf (29 May 2012)

How does she feel about that?


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## BillN (29 May 2012)

Silly person.............."She Who Must Be Obeyed" has TOTAL control of ALL wedding plans/ideas/themes.   

You need to know the mantra for married life: "A Happy Wife Means A Happy Life", but you do always get the two last words....and they are "Yes Dear"    ;D


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## Danjanou (29 May 2012)

Asked and answered on here many times. Once again the search engine is your friend

I MERGED THEM TOGETHER HERE.
BRUCE


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## Pusser (29 May 2012)

chadk said:
			
		

> Hi.  I am wondering if the Canadian Forces has any Wedding traditions.  I am an NCM in the Navy and  plan on proposing to my girlfriend.  I really like the idea of a traditional military wedding ceremony.  Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.



There are many, but they all depend on your branch of service.  See if you can find a copy of E.C. Russell's _Customs and Traditions of the Canadian Forces_.  It's a bit dated and you may have to look around a bit (you might even have to go to a library - a big building full of books that seems to confuse the internet generation), but Russell's book has a lot of good stuff on weddings.  For Navy-specific information, Graeme Arbuckle's _Customs and Tradtions of the Canadian Navy_ is also a good source.  Finally A.D. Taylor's _Customs of the Navy_ has a few tidbits as well and is available on line (http://www.readyayeready.com/tradition/customs-of-the-navy/index.htm).

Unfortunately, the old customs of wearing white tapes on your jumper for a wedding has disappeared (largely because the RCN doesn't wear jumpers anymoren - they were part of "square rig").  However, an arch of swords is still possible.  For a Navy NCM, it really should be cutlasses, but the use of cutlasses has also pretty much disappeared in the modern RCN (bit of a shame as they're cool).  If you're in Halifax or Esquimalt, check with the drill shed as they often sign these things out for weddings.  If you use a sword/cutlass to cut the cake, just make sure you clean the blade before and after.

One ancient naval custom is to hoist a garland of evergreen on the mainmast of your ship on the day of the wedding.  It's an offering to the gods.  I got a few odd looks when I did it, but my marriage is still going strong after almost 19 years, so...


----------



## PuckChaser (29 May 2012)

Pusser said:
			
		

> If you use a sword/cutlass to cut the cake, just make sure you clean the blade before and after.



Tasty surprise to whoever signs out the sword next!  ;D


----------



## jemcgrg (29 May 2012)

I'm getting married in a month and this was quite fun to read through. At least my dress is long enough that the running shoes will be hidden.


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## medicineman (29 May 2012)

jemcgrg said:
			
		

> I'm getting married in a month and this was quite fun to read through. At least my dress is long enough that the running shoes will be hidden.



As long as you don't need to kneel in a church...someone might notice  :nod:

MM


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## my72jeep (29 May 2012)

jemcgrg said:
			
		

> I'm getting married in a month and this was quite fun to read through. At least my dress is long enough that the running shoes will be hidden.


Running shoes in you wedding dress? comfort or just in case you wish to make a last minute dash?


----------



## jemcgrg (30 May 2012)

More in reference to the comments about making a last minute dash in this thread. Haha. Always good to be prepared.


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## Scott (30 May 2012)

BillN said:
			
		

> Silly person.............."She Who Must Be Obeyed" has TOTAL control of ALL wedding plans/ideas/themes.



+ a fucking thousand.

Although, working in the UK and Greenland last year it was only common sense to tunrn everything over to her. The day went off without a hitch and she had a ball. Me happy.

The only thing I got in shit for was that I went to the bar until 0300 with my groomsmen and a few other guys...but she didn't find out until last month (I swear I thought I told her..) and so the bollocking was more of a wry smile and good natured ribbing


----------



## Quellefille (16 Aug 2012)

So my fiance and I have been together for 7 years, engaged for 6, and he finally agreed that we just need to get married, that we're happy with each other and we don't care who is there.  So we decided to get married while he's on leave.  That gave us just under 3 weeks to pull everything together.

I am not used to not being in control.  He and I work well together because he is super laid back and I am on top of things.  But he wants to use a padre to marry us.  So he needs to find out if it's even possible.  We want to get married between the august 25-sept 2.  And he's being all laid back about it and he's lucky he's a) my best friend and amazing b) the love of my life and c) really damned far away because I want to hit him.

I can find another officiant if I have to.  Like I said, we are super ok with just saying the vows.  But I cannot arrange anything else until we know a date.  I can't book dinner, or the hotel room for the evening, or flowers, or hair and nails or anything until he finds out if the padre can even do it!  And the padre said a day or two for an answer and it's been 2 days and I am just waiting to get this done.

I don't want help, or to know if it can or cannot be done.  I just needed to vent.  And once I know whats happening I will be so much better.  but until then he's lucky he's far because if I learned one thing from my aunt(25 years in the forces) its how to yell.


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## Jimmy_D (16 Aug 2012)

To be married by a Padre, you are supposed to take a year of marriage classes. I'm not sure how long for a non military Priest, but I do know that your still supposed to take marriage classes with them as well. 

For something as quick planning as it seems that you are doing, Justice of the peace would probably be the quickest route.


----------



## PMedMoe (16 Aug 2012)

Jimmy_D said:
			
		

> To be married by a Padre, you are supposed to take a year of marriage classes.



A year?     When the heck did that change?  I think I did three or four classes (in 1989) and that was it.


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## Jimmy_D (16 Aug 2012)

That is what one of the Padre's here in Gagetown told me when I inquired about it myself. Just a few weeks ago.


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## Jimmy_D (16 Aug 2012)

If the information he gave me is wrong, then I would like it if someone could provide me a referance. So that I can go back and get thing moving along.


----------



## mariomike (16 Aug 2012)

If you have already spoken to a Padre on base this may not be of use to you.

Regarding CFB Gagetown.

St. Luke's Chapel:
"Baptism and Marriage:
Arranged by appointment with a Chaplain. Minimum notice is three months. Instruction is required.":
http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Gagetown/EN/FamilyServices/ChaplainServices/stlukes/Pages/default.aspx

St. Mary's Chapel:
"Marriage:
Advance notice of six to twelve months is required. Attendance at a marriage preparation course is necessary. Call the Chapel for details.":
http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Gagetown/EN/FamilyServices/ChaplainServices/stmarys/Pages/default.aspx


----------



## Jimmy_D (16 Aug 2012)

Thanks.


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## Pat in Halifax (16 Aug 2012)

That MIGHT be just an RC thing too. My wife and I went through the same and ended up with a JP marrying us. Don't get me wrong, I am a practising RC myself but found it quite offensive that an organization that does not allow it's leaders to marry and preaches celebacy prior to should not be providing me with advice for marriage...not to mentioned the 'covering up' of abuse scandals...oops, I mentioned it.


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## Quellefille (16 Aug 2012)

We are not RC, we are protestants, and we are new to the area so we don't have a home church.  My old pastor did weddings with super short notice, and thats fine.  Especially when you had a couple new to the area who just wanted someone to say 'Do you?  Do you?  You're done"

I'm just frustrated that it's not been 3 days and theres been radio silence and how long does it take for one padre to walk to the other and say 'How much notice do you need to perform a protestant wedding?  I've got a couple who wants to marry asap"  I used to work with the military (Brookfield former agent) and god help ME if I didn't get back to my clients within the time frame.  Even if it was a 'Sorry, don't have an answer, give me another 48 hours'


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## mariomike (16 Aug 2012)

Quellefille said:
			
		

> I'm just frustrated that it's not been 3 days and theres been radio silence and how long does it take for one padre to walk to the other and say 'How much notice do you need to perform a protestant wedding?  I've got a couple who wants to marry asap"



For a Protestant marriage, "at least three months notice is required" seems typical.

CFSU ( Ottawa )
Protestant marriage:
"Ideally, a minimum of three months notice should be given since that gives time for the necessary preparation to happen that will help couples receive the very best assistance.":
http://www.cfsuo.forces.gc.ca/adm/cha-aum/ps-sp/marriage-mariage-eng.asp

Borden:
http://www.borden.forces.gc.ca/998/89/46/31-eng.asp
Protestant: "Marriages: By appointment (at least three months notice is required)."

Kingston:
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/asu_kingston/chapels.aspx
Protestant: "The Chaplain General requires those wishing to be married by a military chaplain to attend a weekend pre-marriage course, offered the last weekend in March only. In addition we require a minimum of three months’ notice."

St. Luke's Chapel ( Gagetown ) in reply 100 is Protestant:
"Minimum notice is three months."


----------



## X2012 (14 Oct 2012)

To start off, sorry for the necro-post! I thought this was the place it would fit best, short of starting a new thread.

My boyfriend and I have been discussing getting married. As a NCdt just finishing ROTP this year, I'm not really in the know on the details of military life. We've talked about the things that I do know about (being apart for deployments/training, possible long hours, moving, leave, etc.), but I'm not sure if there are things that I've missed. I don't think anything will be a deal breaker, but I want both of us to go into this with our eyes open.

I'm also not clear on what happens on the military side of things WRT marriage. Do I need to let my CoC know beforehand? I'm having a hard time sorting out what effects getting married has on everything! I'm going to get in touch with my CoC tomorrow, but if someone could give me an idea of what changes, that would be great.

Any information would be appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## PuckChaser (14 Oct 2012)

If you want to get married by a military chaplain, you have to do the CF marriage course. Otherwise I just walked into my OR after I got married and showed them the certificate from the church and they updated my persfile.


----------



## Journeyman (14 Oct 2012)

X2012 said:
			
		

> *Any* information would be appreciated!


Don't do it.

Finish your schooling, get commissioned, and spend some time learning your classification......and living. There's _plenty_ of time for marriage down the road -- as well as time to regret the restraints and constraints you would be imposing upon yourself at this stage in your life/career.

That's about all the advice I have on this subject; take it for what it's worth. Best of luck, either way.


----------



## Ostrozac (14 Oct 2012)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Don't do it.
> 
> Finish your schooling, get commissioned, and spend some time learning your classification......and living. There's _plenty_ of time for marriage down the road -- as well as time to regret the restraints and constraints you would be imposing upon yourself at this stage in your life/career.
> 
> That's about all the advice I have on this subject; take it for what it's worth. Best of luck, either way.



And I would respectfully disagree -- there is no one marital career path, either for NCO's or for officers. Plenty of people join the CF already married, some marry early in their careers, some late in their careers, some remain single. Some people even find the time for several marriages. My first tour overseas, in my rifle company we had three brand new platoon commanders. One was single, one had just gotten married shortly after being commissioned, and one had a wife and a child.  All three were top-notch officers -- despite the fact that they had different family lives.


----------



## 2010newbie (15 Oct 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> If you want to get married by a military chaplain, you have to do the CF marriage course.



It does not have to be the CF course. There is an Anglican military chaplain performing my ceremony and I am taking a Catholic marriage course from a local parish.


----------



## PuckChaser (15 Oct 2012)

2010newbie said:
			
		

> It does not have to be the CF course. There is an Anglican military chaplain performing my ceremony and I am taking a Catholic marriage course from a local parish.



Maybe its a Kingston thing, there are some special rules here.


----------



## Journeyman (15 Oct 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Maybe its a Kingston thing, there are some special rules here.


It's only fair; 1 Div, RMC, JSR, LFDTS....Kingston has some "special" people.  :nod:


----------



## X2012 (15 Oct 2012)

Thanks for the input everyone! I think we'll be getting married at my church at home, so there's fewer people needing to travel, but it's good to know about the chaplain option as well. Now comes the adventure of trying to fit it in between training and stuff!


----------



## ExquisitelyChic (21 Oct 2012)

Wait, so anyone getting married by a Padre (even if they're Agnostic/Atheist) has to take the CF marriage course?


----------



## ModlrMike (21 Oct 2012)

ExquisitelyChic said:
			
		

> Wait, so anyone getting married by a Padre (even if they're Agnostic/Atheist) has to take the CF marriage course?



So it would seem. The course is more about marriage, than church. Although if one elects to get married in a church, one should accept a certain amount of "churchness" in the process.


----------



## dariel (14 Apr 2013)

My fiance and I are getting married in a civil marriage on the 25th of April and I wanted to know if I'm allowed to wear my DEU's (he's a sucker for my uniform and has asked that I wear it) and if so I had some specific questions.

Do I have to wear the head dress during the ceremony (it will be outdoors, so I'm guessing yes but figured I'd ask)
May I wear my skirt or do I have to wear the pants
And what are the standards for hair, does the hair have to be up or can it be down as in mess dress

I'm most likely going to have additional questions but any help is appreciated.
Cheers!


----------



## MikeL (14 Apr 2013)

Have you considered discussing this with your chain of command and requesting to wear your DEU?


The link mariomike provided should help you out as well,  but you still have to go through your CoC.


----------



## Cansky (14 Apr 2013)

dariel said:
			
		

> My fiance and I are getting married in a civil marriage on the 25th of April and I wanted to know if I'm allowed to wear my DEU's (he's a sucker for my uniform and has asked that I wear it) and if so I had some specific questions.
> 
> Do I have to wear the head dress during the ceremony (it will be outdoors, so I'm guessing yes but figured I'd ask)
> May I wear my skirt or do I have to wear the pants
> ...



If your in DEU's your hair will be up as per the Dress Regs and by up that means in a bun.  Even in Mess kit long hair is pinned up although I have seen many women wear an updo in a military style.  

yes you can wear your skirt with appropriate pumps, black with rounded toe no more than 2 in heel


----------



## PMedMoe (15 Apr 2013)

Kirsten Luomala said:
			
		

> If your in DEU's your hair will be up as per the Dress Regs and by up that means in a bun.  Even in Mess kit long hair is pinned up although I have seen many women wear an updo in a military style.
> 
> yes you can wear your skirt with appropriate pumps, black with rounded toe no more than 2 in heel



Maybe a little "nitpicky", but where in the Dress Regs does it say that pumps must have a rounded toe?   ???


----------



## my72jeep (15 Apr 2013)

Oh no its SHOE WARS..........


----------



## PMedMoe (15 Apr 2013)

my72jeep said:
			
		

> Oh no its SHOE WARS..........



 ;D  Not quite.  Just means anytime I have worn pumps while in uniform, I've been dressed improperly.


----------



## Cansky (15 Apr 2013)

Me too, I have been improperly dressed as was pointed out to me at the last mess dinner.  

According to annex E5-2 para 10 "pumps black or (navy) white.  Civilian plain patterned, leather or patent leather, oval vamp, closed toe and heel, displaying no decorative features and with a standard (not spiked or wedged) heel approximately 5cm (2 in) in height."

Good luck finding something to fit this criteria.


----------



## my72jeep (15 Apr 2013)

I know two Members that swear by the old Oxfords(Grany Boots), They say it makes them look more authoritarian.


----------



## PMedMoe (15 Apr 2013)

Kirsten Luomala said:
			
		

> Me too, I have been improperly dressed as was pointed out to me at the last mess dinner.
> 
> According to annex E5-2 para 10 "pumps black or (navy) white.  Civilian plain patterned, leather or patent leather, oval vamp, closed toe and heel, displaying no decorative features and with a standard (not spiked or wedged) heel approximately 5cm (2 in) in height."
> 
> Good luck finding something to fit this criteria.



My pumps fit that criteria.  I would have asked where does it state "rounded toe".   :stirpot:   Rounded and closed are two different terms.  Must have been the fashion police...   ;D



			
				my72jeep said:
			
		

> I know two Members that swear by the old Oxfords(Grany Boots), They say it makes them look more authoritarian.



 :-X   No thanks.  I don't even know where mine are!


----------



## H11F (25 Oct 2014)

Good Day,

My google-fu has brought me to this thread, which I figured I’d continue rather than starting something fresh.
On Thanksgiving weekend I proposed, and we are now beginning the process of wedding planning.  I’m a Captain with The RCR, she is now in ROTP to become a LogO.  Her two sisters were wed in Halifax, and while we are in Fredericton, I’ve been contemplating Halifax as well since her family is there and it’ll be easy to draw on them for (service) support.

I’ve been to Juno Towers a few times, including the Bridge once, and thought it was a rather nice place.  I know that members of the CAF are, typically, honourary guests at messes on other CAF bases and installations, but I’m not sure how it would apply at this time.

I’ve emailed the mess manager and function co-ordinator and am awaiting a reply, but I was curious if anyone has been to a wedding at Juno Towers and could comment? Or could comment on the facilities themselves? I’ve been to a wedding at RA Park and I know that they provided the food and such directly from that mess, as opposed to requiring caterers.  Again, I’ve sent email and am sure I’ll get a response; however, I put it out here asking from anyone that attended a wedding there, or had a wedding there, if they could give me an idea / feedback on the event.

Thanks,

H11F.


----------



## Pusser (25 Oct 2014)

Actually CAF member are not honorary "guests" in other messes, they are honorary "members," but whether that helps you may depend on the mess management.  For the most part, however, you should be able to get what you are asking for, as long as you get your reservation in on time and of course, pay the appropriate fees.  I can't comment on the current situation, but I can say that a number of years ago, I was able to book the RA Park mess for my in-laws' 50th wedding anniversary.  At the time I was actually posted to Ottawa and was deployed OUTCAN (such fun it is to organize a party via email!).  Other points:

Both Juno Tower and RA Park have their own kitchens and (as far as I know) staff, so their should be no need for outside caterers

Both the Wardroom and RA Park are the same mess

RA Park is actually an excellent facility for a reception.  I was married in the Basilica around the corner and so it was a very convenient location (and the Wardroom was booked).  I also booked it for my sister-in-law's wedding (for which the only military connection was that her sister was married to me), and the aforementioned 50th Anniversary party.  I've also found that messes are much more flexible when organizing dinners, receptions, etc.  You can generally get whatever you want and they tend to go the extra mile when it comes to special requests and of course, military tradition.


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## mike63 (26 Oct 2014)

When I got married to my wife in 1987 (yes still together after all these years), she told me that there was no way we were going to get married in my uniform.  As a military brat herself, she knew that there would be many things that she would have to put up with that the military was going to throw at us.  She said that she was marrying me and not the military.  I wasn't going to start off our life together by arguing about something like that because, I knew somewhere down the line, I would screw something up that I would have to defend against(pick your battles). It took me years to understand what she was saying but...in the end, I got it.


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## H11F (27 Oct 2014)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Actually CAF member are not honorary "guests" in other messes, they are honorary "members," but whether that helps you may depend on the mess management.  For the most part, however, you should be able to get what you are asking for, as long as you get your reservation in on time and of course, pay the appropriate fees.  I can't comment on the current situation, but I can say that a number of years ago, I was able to book the RA Park mess for my in-laws' 50th wedding anniversary.  At the time I was actually posted to Ottawa and was deployed OUTCAN (such fun it is to organize a party via email!).  Other points:
> 
> Both Juno Tower and RA Park have their own kitchens and (as far as I know) staff, so their should be no need for outside caterers
> 
> ...



Pusser,

Thanks for the feedback.  My fiancee's sister did the reception at RA Park this last summer, and it was certainly fun.  Also, apparently, one of the larger bar tabs they'd seen in a while! Oh well, I was having fun ;o)

Thanks for the clarification on guest vice member, I will certainly consider this.  I received a quick email back, though it only provides a small amount of feedback (ref the price per plate), so I will certainly put out a few more RFIs.

I will have to ask about having access to what I believe is called the Bridge, as it wasn't mentioned in the email!

I know there is a church on the base, but I'm not sure that is the route to go.  I will see what SHE wants )


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## Miss.P (6 May 2016)

I'm not sure where to ask this and I'm just curious, but would it be permitted for a female service member to wear a traditional white dress on her wedding day but also with her dress uniform jacket? Thanks in advance


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## Lumber (6 May 2016)

Miss.P said:
			
		

> I'm not sure where to ask this and I'm just curious, but would it be permitted for a female service member to wear a traditional white dress on her wedding day but also with her dress uniform jacket? Thanks in advance



At the same time? No. Your uniform jacket is a military uniform and must be worn in accordance with CAF Dress Regulations. There is no chapter or paragraph that allows you to wear a 1A or Mess Dress jacket over top of a civilian dress.

Now, if you're having a private wedding at a civilian location with only a couple other people in the military there, is anyone going to say anything and make a big fuss about it? ....

Does anyone ever say anything about all the people wearing kilts and other highland regalia with their mess dress, even those the dress committee minutes specifically looked at this and said no? ....


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## Journeyman (6 May 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> Now, if you're having a private wedding at a civilian location with only a couple other people in the military there, is anyone going to say anything and make a big fuss about it? ....


 Anyone with fashion sense will likely say "WTF?!"



> Does anyone ever say anything about all the people wearing kilts and other highland regalia with their mess dress, even those the dress committee minutes specifically looked at this and said no? ....


"Kilts and other highland regalia" are an _approved part_  of some Regiment's Mess dress; it's not like some folks arbitrarily decided to wear a Catholic school girl's plaid miniskirt with their Mess Kit.


...OK, maybe some sailors on weekends


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## Lumber (6 May 2016)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> Anyone with fashion sense will likely say "WTF?!"



I was thinking that but didn't want to say it...lol



			
				Journeyman said:
			
		

> "Kilts and other highland regalia" are an _approved part_  of some Regiment's Mess dress; it's not like some folks arbitrarily decided to wear a Catholic school girl's plaid miniskirt with their Mess Kit.



I was more referring to the numerous mess dinners I've been to where senior naval officers wear their family kilt's with their mess dress. The dress regs say no, and the mess committee says no, but who am I to tell a Capt(N) that he's out of dress when half the room is wearing non-regulation Quebec-City sashes and seal-skin bow ties.


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## Journeyman (6 May 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I was more referring to the numerous mess dinners I've been to where senior naval officers wear their family kilt's with their mess dress. The dress regs say no, and the mess committee says no, but who am I to tell a Capt(N) that he's out of dress when half the room is wearing non-regulation Quebec-City sashes and seal-skin bow ties.


My "sailors on weekends" comment was tongue-in-cheek -- I didn't realize it was a legitimate issue.


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## Lumber (6 May 2016)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> My "sailors on weekends" comment was tongue-in-cheek -- I didn't realize it was a legitimate issue.



I wouldn't so much call it a "legitimate issue" as a perk of promotion to senior rank.  ;D


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## Fishbone Jones (6 May 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I was thinking that but didn't want to say it...lol
> 
> I was more referring to the numerous mess dinners I've been to where senior naval officers wear their family kilt's with their mess dress. The dress regs say no, and the mess committee says no, but who am I to tell a Capt(N) that he's out of dress when half the room is wearing non-regulation Quebec-City sashes and seal-skin bow ties.





			
				Journeyman said:
			
		

> Anyone with fashion sense will likely say "WTF?!"
> "Kilts and other highland regalia" are an _approved part_  of some Regiment's Mess dress; it's not like some folks arbitrarily decided to wear a Catholic school girl's plaid miniskirt with their Mess Kit.
> 
> 
> ...OK, maybe some sailors on weekends



Oh, you two stop it  :slapfight:


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## Loachman (6 May 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I was more referring to the numerous mess dinners I've been to where senior naval officers wear their family kilt's with their mess dress.



Full-length kilts, though, confirm?


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## Lumber (6 May 2016)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Full-length kilts, though, confirm?



If by full-length you mean right at the knee, as kilt's are supposed to be worn, then yes. Along with the high socks, sgian, and sporran.


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## Pusser (6 May 2016)

Miss.P said:
			
		

> I'm not sure where to ask this and I'm just curious, but would it be permitted for a female service member to wear a traditional white dress on her wedding day but also with her dress uniform jacket? Thanks in advance



The Dress Manual has a specific section that states that the mixing of uniform and civilian clothing is prohibited, with the exception of certain items (e.g. shoes, gloves,etc), which by themselves are not identifiable as military.

If you want to add a military flair to your wedding dress, you may find something in the jewelry section at Canex.  Certain badges (e.g. pilot's wings) are sometimes available as "sweetheart broaches,"* which could look nice on a wedding dress, provided that wearing that is appropriate in the first place (i.e. don't wear pilot's wings just because you're in the air force).  Although sweetheart broaches are normally for sweethearts, if there is a version of one for a badge you've actually earned, I can't see anything wrong with wearing it yourself.

The practice of giving "sweetheart broaches" began during the First World War when aircrew began having jewelled versions of their wings made into broaches for their sweethearts to wear.  Note that the women wearing them were NOT aircrew - they wore the badge of their boyfriend/husband.  The practice continues to this day (especially in the UK) and you do occasionally see these broaches at Canex.  This is the only instance where it is considered socially acceptable for someone to wear a badge, which they themselves have not actually earned.  I have heard of cases where members have been having sets of their miniatures made for their wives/girlfriends to wear on formal occasions.  That is most definitely NOT appropriate!


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## Pusser (6 May 2016)

Lumber said:
			
		

> I was more referring to the numerous mess dinners I've been to where senior naval officers wear their family kilt's with their mess dress. The dress regs say no, and the mess committee says no, but who am I to tell a Capt(N) that he's out of dress when half the room is wearing non-regulation Quebec-City sashes and seal-skin bow ties.



I think it's sad that the Dress Committee turned down the proposal to allow kilts.  I think it looks pretty sharp.  It's also a common and accepted practice in the RN.  In fact, it's specifically permitted within their dress regulations.  Sometimes I think the Dress Committee has too much of a, "I don't want to wear that optional item; therefore, no one else should be allowed to," attitude.  Furthermore, why bother trying to outlaw something that folks are going to do anyway?


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## Lumber (6 May 2016)

Pusser said:
			
		

> I think it's sad that the Dress Committee turned down the proposal to allow kilts.  I think it looks pretty sharp.  It's also a common and accepted practice in the RN.  In fact, it's specifically permitted within their dress regulations.  Sometimes I think the Dress Committee has too much of a, "I don't want to wear that optional item; therefore, no one else should be allowed to," attitude.  Furthermore, why bother trying to outlaw something that folks are going to do anyway?



My thoughts exactly! There weren't even any comment in the minutes of the meeting, just simply:

"4.       Wearing of Kilts with Mess Dress: RCN CPO indicated that there was no intention to move forward on the wearing of Kilts with Mess Dress, an item brought forward at the June NDC meeting; this matter is now closed."

So why turn it down? It's really sharp, and their are instructions for wearing kilts in the dress regs (army, albeit), so it shouldn't be an issue!


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## Journeyman (7 May 2016)

Pusser said:
			
		

> Furthermore, why bother trying to outlaw something that folks are going to do anyway?


       :facepalm:


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## medicineman (7 May 2016)

Pusser said:
			
		

> ...It's also a common and accepted practice in the RN.  In fact, it's specifically permitted within their dress regulations...



Much like things have been debated about other things Buttons and Bows, WE ARE NOT IN THE UK/RN...WE ARE NOT A SUB-COMPONENT OF THE US ARMY (dumb badges on combats), so why the fuque do we keep trying to be like them.  I thought the idea of going back to the previous iteration of pre-unification was to be Canadian - not British, not American, not French or whatever background we've been purporting ourselves to be at a given moment.  Why don't we let everyone in 5 Brigade and 34 Brigade wear their berets over their right eyes instead, you know, since we're trying to embody non-Canadian traditions into OUR military.  Better yet, let's just try to worry about actual IMPORTANT THINGS - you know like making sure we can do our jobs properly and in a timely manner.  If we get to the point where this is what we're worrying about, this country is going to be pretty much euchered if ISIS hops the pond, or even if a small platoon of North Korean commandos comes aground on a "migrant" vessel on the west coast.

:2c:

MM


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## dapaterson (7 May 2016)

medicineman said:
			
		

> ...or even if a small platoon of North Korean commandos comes aground on a "migrant" vessel on the west coast.



I hope they properly conducted their environmental assessment in advance, otherwise there's gonna be an SI into that.  I mean, what if there's lead paint on the ship that scrapes against a rock?

Or what if they are wearing non-issue boots?

The potential problems are huge!  HUGE!!!


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## Michael OLeary (7 May 2016)

Pusser said:
			
		

> The practice of giving "sweetheart broaches" began during the First World War when aircrew began having jewelled versions of their wings made into broaches for their sweethearts to wear.



That might have been where it started for aircrew.


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## militaryfamily14 (15 Jun 2016)

QUESTION
Has anyone ever deferred their basic training to start at a later date due to an important circumstance? Ex: Your own wedding day, funeral? I'm getting married to a current military member on September 10th of this year. I have my medical in a week. Based on what I've seen so far, July & August BMQs seems to be filling up so I should be in the fall basic. Any tips?


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## mariomike (15 Jun 2016)

militaryfamily14 said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever deferred their basic training to start at a later date due to an important circumstance?



Asked and answered in Ask a CAF Recruiter,

Chances of getting a second offer?
OP: I am not able to comfortably commit 100% because of life circumstances at the moment. If I were to decline this offer, what would be my chances of getting a second offer down the road?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122972.0



			
				Scarlett said:
			
		

> I was made an offer for the May 2nd BMQ. I wasn't able to attend that date due to life circumstances. I asked for a deferral for a later BMQ date and explained my situation. They decided that it was best to have the offer declined and re-merit list me, I was called 6 days later with an offer for the June BMQ which I am able to attend. I would suggest asking for a deferral to a date that you can attend first.





			
				DAA said:
			
		

> If you choose to decline an offer of employment, you must then inform your Recruiting Detachment of what you wish to have done with your current application.  You may either have your application CLOSED (and re-Open it at a later date) or ask to be re-merit listed and considered for an offer of employment at a later date.


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## militaryfamily14 (15 Jun 2016)

THANK YOU! This helps a lot


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## mariomike (15 Jun 2016)

militaryfamily14 said:
			
		

> THANK YOU! This helps a lot



You are welcome. Good luck.  

_As always,_  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.


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## Loachman (15 Jun 2016)

militaryfamily14 said:
			
		

> Ex: Your own ... funeral?



Seems like a reasonable excuse to me.


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## brihard (15 Jun 2016)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Seems like a reasonable excuse to me.



Guaranteed given the state of this organization, some genius would still mail out the second offer.


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## militaryfamily14 (15 Jun 2016)

Not my own funeral lol just an example!

I'm getting married to a current military member in September


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## mariomike (15 Jun 2016)

militaryfamily14 said:
			
		

> I'm getting married to a current military member in September



Congratulations.

Are you planning a military wedding?

The Military Wedding Superthread- merged  
https://army.ca/forums/threads/1366.0
6 pages.


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## Loachman (15 Jun 2016)

militaryfamily14 said:
			
		

> Not my own funeral lol just an example!
> 
> I'm getting married to a current military member in September



Yes, I saw that, and wondered how bad a marriage could be and was thinking about how painless getting out of my previous two was in comparison.

Qapla.


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## militaryfamily14 (15 Jun 2016)

Yes we will! Everything is planned/paid for so we will be a military family after


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## shogun506 (31 May 2017)

I just got engaged and my fiance and I are looking for a venue. I was talking to a friend of mine and he said he's heard there are military venues that can be rented. For example one is in Kingston. He didn't use it himself so he didn't really know the details but he's known of some people that have. I'm not really interested in doing a military wedding but if there are special venues available I'm interested in that. Does anyone know anything about this or who I could contact?


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## kratz (31 May 2017)

I would think your friend is talking about renting out the mess at one of the units / base. In Kingston, you have the base, the PRes armoury and the Naval Reserve unit. There may be locations others may suggest.


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## Loachman (31 May 2017)

I'd guess that any Officers' Mess would be available to a Mess Member.

Are you in Kingston, or was that just a random example?


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