# Powers of arrest conflict??



## X-army-cst (17 Sep 2007)

I am in the RCMP and did 18 years regular forces as a LCIS tech. I asked about joining the reserves as an MP and a recruiting person said RCMP could not do MP, any other trade but no that due to a conflict of the powers of arrest.  
Sounds dubious to me. Powers of arrest are powers of arrest. Section 495 doesn't change in the military, except now you need to know the NDA. MP's are still peace officer's just like normal I presume. BUT am I missing something about the MP trade I don't know???

Chime in here folks.

Thanks.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (17 Sep 2007)

RCMP mbrs in the Militia

Might help.


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## noneck (17 Sep 2007)

I don't believe that it has anything to do with the CF. Rather the RCMP Act which prohibits members from ,"Moonlighting" as a peace officer  due to conflict of interest. You will probably find it under the Secondary Employment Regs.

Noneck
P.S I can recommend a good infantry unit in the LMD if you are interested  ;D


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## medaid (17 Sep 2007)

shameless recruiting plug Noneck


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## noneck (17 Sep 2007)

What can I say, we are all fighting for the same troops! 8)

Noneck


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## medaid (17 Sep 2007)

We are indeed, we are indeed 

Now, since we're on the subject of MPs, why are PRes MPs not considered the same as their RegF counterparts? They don't get issued badges and they don't have the same powers of arrest?


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## captjtq (17 Sep 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> We are indeed, we are indeed
> 
> Now, since we're on the subject of MPs, why are PRes MPs not considered the same as their RegF counterparts? They don't get issued badges and they don't have the same powers of arrest?



They are, if they go through the same QL3. But the lion's share don't. So they don't get the full police trg package, and are not badged, etc. There are exceptions to this rule - for example, there are members of civvie police forces with extensive police experience on that side that are also Reserve MP. These people could potentially be given badges upon review by the Deputy Provost Marshal - Police.


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## noneck (17 Sep 2007)

Yeah there would be some serious knots in faces, not mention training gaps if PRes MP's after a 4 week trade course where given Peace Officer status! I had heard that Air Force Pres MPs go through the full meal deal MP training in Borden and thus are badged and carry full powers...is this true?

FWIW, A buddy of mine at my last Det, was a prior MP. He told me that the MP training in Borden was great and that they used a ton of sim, he rated that portion as better than Depot

Noneck


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## medaid (17 Sep 2007)

Honestly, I think it would be nice to have basic policing to be taught the same for both the RCMP and the MP. That means having all the MPs go to Depot, and then return to Borden for military components.

Now, I know it was decided that the RCMP could not accommodate the influx of MP recruits that would go to Depot on top of their own R/Cst. 

Now interesting thing on badging PRes MP members. Can't they just operate like the Aux/Reserve Cst do in Civ Pol? I mean badge them, give them limited powers of arrest which they already have) and carry on from there? Just a question.

Cheers,

MT.


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## noneck (17 Sep 2007)

MedTech-

I don't beleive it would work, because you would have to drastically extend their basic courses, by at least another 4 weeks in order to teach them the basic fundamentals. However if a PRes MP wanted to commit to taking the full Reg F MP course then by all means. That being said the PRes MP would then have to meet all the selection criteria that a Reg F applicant would have to meet....then why not just join the Reg F!!!

As far as I know the RCMP is going to be accepting Reg F MP's as laterals this year, good for us, bad for the trade!

Noneck


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## garb811 (17 Sep 2007)

noneck said:
			
		

> ....then why not just join the Reg F!!!



Let's see...no postings, no deployments unless you volunteer...two big ones off the top of my head.  I know a couple of guys who've pulled the pin and rolled into Class B positions after 20 years where they retained their badge.  Great deal for them, not so good for those of us who stay in...

ARAF MP do get issued a badge but its use is strictly limited.  Unless they are on duty in a "police" position, the badge is supposed to be turned in and locked up at the end of each shift, they don't retain the appointment 24/7.  It's my recollection that when originally conceived, the idea with ARAF MP was to use them as backfills for Reg Force guys deployed, went on course etc.

With the exception of deployed Ops, when it would be great to have 100% badged Res MP, the fact is most Res MP are never in a position to operate in a "police" role with enough frequency to justify the time and cost it would take to bring them all to badged standard.  There are a few in Borden going through the Reg Force course right now and I know there was on Res MPO who did at least a portion of the Officer course a few years back so it is possible to pull off, just rare.


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## Fishbone Jones (17 Sep 2007)

Let's get back to the original question, shall we? Most of this stuff you guys are talking about has been covered, IIRC.


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## CST77 (17 Sep 2007)

I too tried to join the PRes as an MP, however I was told by recruiting that I could not because I was in the RCMP.  I know that force policy does not allow us to hold peace officer status with anyone else.  As was mentioned in previous posts PRes MP's do not hold peace officer status.  I could not find any CF policy stating that RCMP members could not be enrolled in the PRes as MP's.  So this is a mystery to me as well.


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## Shamrock (18 Sep 2007)

X-army-cst said:
			
		

> I am in the RCMP and did 18 years regular forces as a LCIS tech. I asked about joining the reserves as an MP and a recruiting person said RCMP could not do MP, any other trade but no that due to a conflict of the powers of arrest.



Section 156 of the NDA lists the MP powers of arrest.  Although it says Military Police, I think to whom this section pertains has been covered.  

I've heard tales of some police being members of Res MP.  Perhaps the recruiter was just out to lunch?


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## garb811 (18 Sep 2007)

OK, after a bit of searching and to sum it up...

Yes, there are civilian police who are PRes MP.  No, the recruiter was not out to lunch, RCMP are prohibited from becoming PRes MP.  A reply to this question was supposed to be posted at the Army Forum last Janurary but nothing to date...

I recall reading something further to this issue but it's been awhile and I can't find the source so I'll refrain from posting my hazy recollections...


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## X-army-cst (18 Sep 2007)

The RCMP act has been amended and RCMP can now join the reserves.  What conflict could there be with powers of arrest?? Any MP's know who would be a good officer to email that would have some answers or know where to get them?
Thank you all.


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## garb811 (18 Sep 2007)

You and the recruiting clerk are the only ones saying anything about conflicting powers of arrest.  The clear, short answer has already been given:  RCMP cannot be Res MP.  A very reputable source in matters concerning RCMP in the PRes, noneck, has informed you it is his belief that it is an issue on the RCMP side of the house.  Before you start phoning the CFPM, perhaps that'd be an avenue to explore.

Since you're so insistant, what is it you hope to gain?  I would respectfully point out that although it has been said here that Civ Pol could potentially be appointed MP pursuant to Sec 156, I have never met anyone who has recieved it (not saying it hasn't happened or won't happen, just that I yet to see it) and if it has happened, I would suspect it would have been in relation to a deployment vice working in Canada.  I don't know too many civpol who would take a leave of absence to go work as a callout at a lower rate of pay...   

I'm also curious as to who you are planning to join?  If you are indeed in Revelstoke, there is no MP unit to join there, Reg or PRes and neither location with PRes MP units closest to you have Reg Force MP where there would be the demand to have a "badged" PRes member.  So even if the Branch was in the habit of "badging" CivPol willy-nilly, which it isn't, you still wouldn't meet the requirements to be appointed MP and you still would have no authority beyond any other CF member. .


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## MapleLeaf4Evr (18 Sep 2007)

I know a number of municipal police members who are reserve MP.  I don't see any reason since the change of the QR&O's why an RCMP couldn't become unbadged, reserve MP.  I would like to hear what comes from the CFPM on this issue and what justification is behind it.


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## Roy Harding (18 Sep 2007)

MapleLeaf4Evr said:
			
		

> I know a number of municipal police members who are reserve MP.  I don't see any reason since the change of the QR&O's why an RCMP couldn't become unbadged, reserve MP.  I would like to hear what comes from the CFPM on this issue and what justification is behind it.



Perhaps you misread the posts above yours.  Let me elucidate:



			
				garb811 said:
			
		

> You and the recruiting clerk are the only ones saying anything about conflicting powers of arrest.  The clear, short answer has already been given:  RCMP cannot be Res MP.  A very reputable source in matters concerning RCMP in the PRes, noneck, has informed you it is his belief that it is an issue on the RCMP side of the house.  Before you start phoning the CFPM, perhaps that'd be an avenue to explore.





			
				noneck said:
			
		

> I don't believe that it has anything to do with the CF. Rather the RCMP Act which prohibits members from ,"Moonlighting" as a peace officer  due to conflict of interest. You will probably find it under the Secondary Employment Regs.



Please start reading before you post.


Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff


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## Fawkes (18 Sep 2007)

Why would you want to be a Res MP ???  

You do policing several long hours a week. Would you not want to do something totally different and learn new skills .... experience new things ???


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## X-army-cst (19 Sep 2007)

Fawkes said:
			
		

> Why would you want to be a Res MP ???
> 
> You do policing several long hours a week. Would you not want to do something totally different and learn new skills .... experience new things ???



Because I liked the army and wouldn't mind getting a bit more Army in while I can..as I now like law enforcement ..why not combine that with the army. It would be new to me as far as the CF goes and a perfect fit I thought with the PRes. Unfortunately it seems it isn't ! HA! 
BUT...I realize there isn't a unit around me, but why wouldn't the PRes want another MP around to use at Vernon camps or go overseas sometime etc etc.. That's all. Especially when you consider I could just throw a uniform on and basically be ready to go. Very minor training. 
Oh well looks like the PRes is out for me I am NOT going in as a combat arms trade...I saw enough of that in 18 years to know it sucks. (for me at least) Those of yo uthat enjoy it fine..don't get all bent out of shape I am not slamming you..it isn't for this guy that's all.  

Thanks for all the input here folks!!


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## garb811 (19 Sep 2007)

If you want to do some summer camp stuff and have your foot in the military world, albeit not the full meal deal, why not join the CIC?  The CO for Vernon for the last several years has been a serving RCMP member out of the lower mainland and there have been a few other current and retired members who have been in various positions there over the last few years as well.  I'm not totally sure what the current situation is with the Cadet Corps in Revelstoke but last I heard they'd be very happy to have someone with your experience on board.  If you're interested, I'd be more than happy to PM you a name to contact.


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## medaid (19 Sep 2007)

Insp. Terry Koppan is was the CO of Vernon.He is the administrative assistan to the Commisioner of 'E' Div.


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## Stetson and Spurs (6 Nov 2007)

The RCMP has not changed its policy with respect to Regular Members being allowed to join the Reserves. It recently signed an MOU that would accommodate Civilian Members who wished to serve and volunteer for operational deployments. Regular Members are prohibited based on an old premise that in the event of a major incident that would affect the country on the domestic front, all members must be available to deploy in response to RCMP operations. There would be an obvious conflict say if in the event of another ice storm, flood or security issue similar to Oka, if a member was obligated to serve the RCMP and the CF at the same time. Having said that, RCMP members are allowed to work with cadet corps as part of the Cadet Instructor's List.


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## Froger (6 Nov 2007)

Yes RCMP members can be a commission officer in the Reserve as a CIC not the CIL.


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## CST77 (12 Nov 2007)

Policy has changed regarding Regular members joining the PRes...Search the topic.


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## noneck (13 Nov 2007)

It most definitely has been changed! Either that or I may have been dreaming about being on pde yesterday in a green uniform!

S&S pm me if you want the rundown on the issue from the coalface so to speak.

Noneck


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## marshall sl (13 Nov 2007)

You looked good in your kilt yesterday Sgt Noneck
Cabar Feidgh!!


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## Stetson and Spurs (13 Nov 2007)

I will gladly swallow a huge chunk of humble pie if you are telling me Force Policy has changed and I can get back into it. I'm going to venture a guess it is in AM, is it under a bulletin or green sheet?


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## noneck (14 Nov 2007)

S&S -PM sent.

If you want to read about the history of the issue, check it out on the RCMP in the PRes thread.

Cheers
Noneck


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## Cheshire (12 Dec 2007)

Garb 811...

Were you referring to the National Defense Act section 156?


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## garb811 (12 Dec 2007)

Yes.


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