# West Coast KIN Class - 3 Operational Ships



## Cronicbny (27 May 2009)

Was just told today that we're shutting down another platform... more properly putting a 3rd KIN Class into Reduced Readiness.

Main factor was manning, of course, with some other considerations.

More to follow... I will try to update as more information becomes available.


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## navymich (27 May 2009)

I'd heard rumour of that a few days ago, so I guess it's confirmed now.  Wow.  I still keep my ears open for news from people out there and understand that manning has been going downhill at a steady rate owing specifically to large numbers going the way of CT.

Some things I'm behind on, and I'm sure you can answer these for me.  How will this effect MARS training, or has that gone the way of the Orcas?  And D/C OJT training?  How is the East Coast in comparison?


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## Cronicbny (27 May 2009)

Mich,

MARS training is almost exclusively the domain of ORCAs. In fact, the next RegF MARS IV looks like it will be entirely ORCA Class - crewed by a mish-mash of Reservists and RegF. KIN Class still will do the Reserve MARS training. The last MARS IV we did was two KIN and two ORCA, with the KIN ships (WHI/EDM) going to Juneau and Prince Rupert while the ORCAs maintained a more local profile (Seattle, Vancouver).

C/D-OJT doesn't seem to exist as it once did, with the ridiculous organization and associated problems. It seems that a coastal coordinator is assigned and personnel are basically sent out to any ship that is sailing, including HAL/IRO class (if applicable - obviously MESOs stick with the KIN class). I can't really speak to the actual organization but I can say it isn't taking over the ER KIN Class at all.

From what I hear the East Coast is doing much better manning wise - though again that's all rumour and conjecture on my part - I'm sure someone here can make a more accurate statement. 

Aside from the bonus of having a more stable crew level (for the time being) it seems the new COMCANFLTPAC is intent on sending the remaining ships farther afield for more interesting ports - possibly in a three ship group to allow for a more reasonable Duty Watch rotation. I personally think the decision was inevitable, and while sad, I think the vision expressed from higher up is a step in the right direction. Everything is up for negotiation - including Home Port duty watch configuration. Sending the three ships ANYWHERE together is a step in the right direction and I'm still a little confuzed why we got away from doing that in the first place.

Do I think it will stem the CT highway? Not really, but it can't make it any worse. We were really in a desperate situation and something needed to be done - I'm just thankful someone made a decision and now we can focus on implementing some concrete changes that many in the formation and beyond resisted simply because "The situation can't be that bad" seemed to be de rigeur three or four years ago.

What is somewhat disconcerting (well, ONE of the many things), and it's not an isolated opinion, is where NAVRES was in this entire process for the last decade. Not a peep has been heard at the grass roots level and I'm convinced that the appearance of indifference in that regard will continue to drive people towards CT - albeit at a somewhat reduced rate. No longer the land of "we're not an employment agency" - the policy has silently shifted to "extension? How long?" - sadly, without the commensurate belief that the CM policy in the former regard has changed one iota.


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## dimsum (27 May 2009)

Interesting.  I've heard rumour of this as well through the grapevine.


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## Klinkaroo (30 May 2009)

Just to add to what Cronicbny was saying about D/C OJT. We got a brief on this, and what it seems like is you are correct most trades will have a coordinator and be sending the people to any ship with a bunk including Hal/Iro/Pro class ships. The only trade that is different is the MESO trade wich will have a C-OJT style (emphasis on style, it's not actually called C-OJT anymore) with a dedicated instructor on a down boat.


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## Stoker (30 May 2009)

The East Coast is in somewhat better shape than the West in regards to manning. We have one ship in extended readiness and one ship alongside due to major mechanical difficulties. The crew from this ship is farmed out to the other ships to augment the other crews. So all in all we have about four full crews out of six right now. There is a silver lining however, with these ships alongside,  lots of updates and new systems are getting installed, new radars, diesels, SCBA's etc.
There is still a lot of CT going on and we're loosing a lot of our corporate knowledge with them, eventually it will slow down when most of the people who are going to CT finally go.
We are still not seeing anything really coming from NAVRES in regards to solutions, having our headquarters and fleetschool in Quebec City has really isolated them from the coasts, nobody really wants to be posted there and we have people there who rotate from one job to another and only really wants to keep their job.
As we start to ramp up for the season we are loosing many people to the Queens guard here, a lot are not getting their OJT and being told its either that or no contract. As for qualified pers, no problem to get a Class C contract for 3 years.
I think things will get worst before they get better, the idea to send pers to the big ships for OJT is a step in the right direction, however can backfire when the pers see how better the reg force have it on their ships.


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## Sailorwest (1 Jun 2009)

What sort of a solutoin did you expect out of NAVRES? It isn't like there is a whole lot of bodies hanging out ready to go to the coast anymore. Many of the NRD's are probably running at an effective manning similar to that of an MCDV right now and the recruiting system cannot meet demand. The reality I think is that we will be at a 5 ship maximum for full time service between the coasts in the very near future.


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## MightyIndustry (12 Oct 2011)

Just as an update:
5 out of 6 MCDVs West Coast were operational during this summer, and we expect 5 to be operational next summer. 
With the Frigates going into refits, there's some extra bodies around.


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## FSTO (15 Oct 2011)

Here is another update of an NRD situation. Actually we are in dire straits out here, by next year we will have no CPO2, 1 PO1, 2 PO2, 2 MS, 7 Killicks and a smattering of OS. On the officer side 2 LCdr, maybe 1 Lt(N) (if we can get a promotion) 1 Slt, 3 ASlt and 1 NCdt. This is a result of CT, inter NRD Transfer, release to the supp reserve and outright release. 
The feeling here is that the MCDV's really sucked the marrow out of the NRD's and it maybe too late to save some of us. :'(


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## Stoker (15 Oct 2011)

FSTO said:
			
		

> Here is another update of an NRD situation. Actually we are in dire straits out here, by next year we will have no CPO2, 1 PO1, 2 PO2, 2 MS, 7 Killicks and a smattering of OS. On the officer side 2 LCdr, maybe 1 Lt(N) (if we can get a promotion) 1 Slt, 3 ASlt and 1 NCdt. This is a result of CT, inter NRD Transfer, release to the supp reserve and outright release.
> The feeling here is that the MCDV's really sucked the marrow out of the NRD's and it maybe too late to save some of us. :'(



Perhaps we'll all go back to the NRD when the class B cuts come


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## Stoker (15 Oct 2011)

MightyIndustry said:
			
		

> Just as an update:
> 5 out of 6 MCDVs West Coast were operational during this summer, and we expect 5 to be operational next summer.
> With the Frigates going into refits, there's some extra bodies around.



Yes that's true but there's not that many "extra" bodies around as you think. Wait until the ship building contracts get announced, and we'll see the exodus of people leaving.


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## MightyIndustry (16 Oct 2011)

Rumor has it, and this rears its head every four or five years like clockwork, that the Ottawa NDHQ postings are going to start decreasing. This will have more of an impact on the number of officers condemmed to their respective coasts than POs and Chiefs, but hopefully we'll see a few more "people managers" on the deck plates soon. 
And I have to also confess that I have never seen as many "Ordinaries" before as I have this past year. Its hard to gauge  how many will keep with it. It will be interesting. 
East Coast wants to do a big recruiting drive next year using the MCDVs and hopefully get five of them operational. We should see a lot of activity on the Lakes April-September.


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## Stoker (16 Oct 2011)

MightyIndustry said:
			
		

> And I have to also confess that I have never seen as many "Ordinaries" before as I have this past year. Its hard to gauge  how many will keep with it. It will be interesting.
> East Coast wants to do a big recruiting drive next year using the MCDVs and hopefully get five of them operational. We should see a lot of activity on the Lakes April-September.



That's because the priority is on force generation to clear up the backlog of untrained personnel and we be for the next 3 years. 

The east coast has done a recruiting drive for the last # of years on the Great lakes, this year it was a CPF and MCDV's. This year we will have 4 operational with a 5th ship partially manned. Both coasts will continue with blended crewing with some regular force mbr's attached into red trade billets. We're also filling shortages on the big ships with reserve personnel. This is the new way we do business.


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## MightyIndustry (17 Oct 2011)

What did "Blended" look like out east? I don't want to say that we had a reg force ship out west, but.....


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## Stoker (17 Oct 2011)

MightyIndustry said:
			
		

> What did "Blended" look like out east? I don't want to say that we had a reg force ship out west, but.....



They didn't, they had a ship where a number of the positions were temporarily back filled with regular force mbrs to get the force generation ship out the door.


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## MightyIndustry (20 Oct 2011)

I shouldn't imply that we had a reforce ship. The Edmonton had to take on a lot of regforce engineers though. Taking in all the ships, I saw 16 regforce engineers getting checked out on the machinery.


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## Stoker (20 Oct 2011)

MightyIndustry said:
			
		

> I shouldn't imply that we had a reforce ship. The Edmonton had to take on a lot of regforce engineers though. Taking in all the ships, I saw 16 regforce engineers getting checked out on the machinery.



I don't know what you saw but only 3 Cert 2', 2 AMOC's were trained and several Cert 4's were endorsed. They do training time to time for NET's and ET's though and perhaps that's what you saw.


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