# Mass grave containing 1,800 German soldiers who perished at the Battle of Stalin



## daftandbarmy (12 Dec 2018)

Mass grave containing 1,800 German soldiers who perished at the Battle of Stalingrad is uncovered in Russia - 75 years after WWII's largest confrontation claimed two million lives:

-Russian workmen laying a new water pipe in Volgograd (formerly Stalingrad) discovered the mass grave

-The 430ft long, 23ft wide, 7ft deep pit holds the bodies of 1,837 Germans hastily buried to avoid epidemics

-Historian Michael Jones said it was a sad fate for an army Hitler once said could conquer the gates of Heaven 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6487251/Mass-grave-containing-1-800-German-soldiers-died-Battle-Stalingrad-uncovered-Russia.html


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## Colin Parkinson (12 Dec 2018)

There is a German organization that pays for the recovery of German war dead, I suspect they just spent a chunk of their yearly budget to deal with this.


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## exspy (12 Dec 2018)

daftandbarmy said:
			
		

> Historian Michael Jones said it was a sad fate for an army Hitler once said could conquer the gates of Heaven.



Another Nazi fan boy speaks. If they wanted a better fate, they should have stayed in Germany.

Cheers,
Dan.


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## AbdullahD (12 Dec 2018)

Dan M said:
			
		

> Another Nazi fan boy speaks. If they wanted a better fate, they should have stayed in Germany.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dan.



Do you have any facts to back that up? I did a quick google and could not find any overly sympathetic Nazi propaganda sentiments.. I found statements saying his works were well balanced and sourced material.

I only see he is a military historian and quoting what some deranged lunatic said.. does not mean he agrees with it.

Any rate if I missed something I'd appreciate seeing it.. if not the books look interesting to get and read.

Abdullah


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## FormerHorseGuard (13 Dec 2018)

I am of mixed views on German war dead.  Unmarked mass graves,  never bring closure to a fallen soldiers family.

I guess when you are from the losing side in a war and your government at the time is shown to be the worst in history and every bad thing that has since happened is measured by the historical record of that Government and nothing seems to surpass their record.

I cannot imagine a public remembrance day type service in Germany,  has to be hard to publicly share the memories of the fallen. I do not believe every soldier, air man or sailor was a willing member of the ruling party and wanted to fight and take over the world. The families who lost so much must find it hard to share their loss in public. 
I will admit some of the military were very much true believers and fans of the cause. 


But I think the bodies found here should be returned home to Germany and buried with honor. I do not know how they could fully ID the fallen but they should be buried on home soil, where the grave might find some respect.


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## mariomike (13 Dec 2018)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> I cannot imagine a public remembrance day type service in Germany,



QUOTE

Volkstrauertag (German for "people's day of mourning") is a public holiday in Germany two Sundays before the first day of Advent. It commemorates members of the armed forces and civilians who died in armed conflicts, to include victims of violent oppression. It was first observed in its modern form in 1952.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkstrauertag#Modern_form

END QUOTE



			
				FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> I think the bodies found here should be returned home to Germany and buried with honor. I do not know how they could fully ID the fallen but they should be buried on home soil, where the grave might find some respect.



Canadians who died during the world wars were not repatriated back to Canada. 

eg: RCAF airmen who were KIA over Germany are interred in Reichswald Forest War Cemetery, Germany and Rheinberg War Cemetery, Germany.

Similarly, for German soldiers who died in Russia,

QUOTE

Sologubovka Cemetery is a German war cemetery and the final resting place of over 30,000 German war dead from World War II. Located 70 kilometres (43 mi) southeast of St. Petersburg in northwestern Russia, it has a planned capacity for a further 50,000 new burials of previously lost German war dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sologubovka_Cemetery

2013

New Cemetery in Russia

Germany Still Burying Eastern Front Dead

After spending two decades recovering almost 800,000 soldiers in Eastern Europe and Russia, Germany will open its last war cemetery in Russia on Saturday. The work isn't over, though, as the war graves commission has located a further 400,000 dead. 
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-to-open-last-wwii-war-cemetery-in-russia-a-914093.html

END QUOTE



			
				FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> I will admit some of the military were very much true believers and fans of the cause.



Whatever they believed at the time, any symbols of it have been obliterated. 

In Germany, at least,

"Conquering armies banned the swastika immediately after the war"
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/8/16/16152088/nazi-swastikas-germany-charlottesville


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## Furniture (13 Dec 2018)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> I am of mixed views on German war dead.  Unmarked mass graves,  never bring closure to a fallen soldiers family.
> 
> I guess when you are from the losing side in a war and your government at the time is shown to be the worst in history and every bad thing that has since happened is measured by the historical record of that Government and nothing seems to surpass their record.
> 
> ...



One of the things that we like to think sets us apart from the "bad guys" is we respect our fallen enemies, even if they were fighting for one of the worst governments in the past 100 years. Nazi Germany has had some stiff competition for worst government, one of our allies in that war and the nation where the article's battle took place being one of those competitors.


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## FormerHorseGuard (15 Dec 2018)

I did not know Germany had a Remembrance Day. I have never seen anything about it in the news. 
I know Fallen Canadian troops are not returned home if found after the 2 World Wars and Korea.  We did not return the bodies of the Fallen till we lost soldiers on a U.N.  mission late 60s, early 70s?



I just thought being buried in unmarked graves in Russia was socially awarkward and would be difficult  as they were invaders and the enemy of Mother Russia. Guess my thoughts were wrong. I can accept that


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## kkwd (15 Dec 2018)

The German War Graves Commission would probably be the ones to take care of these casualties. They already maintain graves in Russian cemeteries. 

https://www.volksbund.de/en/volksbund.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_War_Graves_Commission


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## mariomike (16 Dec 2018)

FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> I did not know Germany had a Remembrance Day. I have never seen anything about it in the news.



Ottawa Citizen

Remembrance Day: For Germans, a time of painful memories
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/remembrance-day-for-germans-a-time-of-painful-memories



			
				FormerHorseGuard said:
			
		

> I just thought being buried in unmarked graves in Russia was socially awarkward and would be difficult  as they were invaders and the enemy of Mother Russia.



Probably no less awkward than the Canadian Bomber crews buried in Germany.

For the Canadian Army, "General H.D.G. Crerar, who commanded Canadian land forces in Europe, ordered that Canadian dead were not to be buried in German soil."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groesbeek_Canadian_War_Cemetery


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## Cloud Cover (16 Dec 2018)

Paul Hauser and Kurt Meyer (may he burn in hell)  set up an organization known as HIAG which for decades organized Remembrance days for the Waffen SS, and while they initially had meagre support from the WG government, they had the sympathy of millions of Germans once the country got back on its feet in the 50's.  All that to say, they held remembrances, pushed for official recognition of days of respect for the fallen including the SS, and they were partially successful.  The key to their success was being able to write their version of history faster  and much better than anyone else.
As for a general day of Remembrance for Germany, it is not necessary to dedicate it to their military fallen, millions of innocent German civilians bore a larger brunt of WW2 than the UK, the occupied countries, the US and Canada, Australia, New Zealand in Europe. 
Has anyone ever seen the documentary on Himmlers daughter, or read about her? https://spartacus-educational.com/Gudrun_Himmler.htm
How many people in those German Remembrance day crowds can see the difference between remembering German Sacrifice and the SS.   My guess is not many...


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