# Helmet Cam



## envious1 (15 Apr 2008)

I don't know if this is the right place to post this. I was wondering are helmet cam allowed in the Canadian Army overseas.
Hopefully when I am done my Infantry course I will have the opportunity to head over to Afghanistan and was just wondering if Helmet cams are allowed.

I do apologize if this was not the right place to post this.


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## vonGarvin (15 Apr 2008)

If by "Helmet Cam" you mean scrim (that stuff that makes the helmet look like Sideshow Bob's coif), then no.  We have digital cam covered helmets.  No need for that "stuff" anymore (though some may debate this point, which is fair, this is my point). 

Have a look at the pictures of troops overseas.  No scrim (on the current mission: there was some on the 2002 mission)


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## geo (15 Apr 2008)

envious,...
You will learn your fieldcraft once you are enrolled and go through your trade course.

The helmet comes with a slotted cam cover & a large band. the slots & band are there to affix additional cam.

Some additional cam - "scrim" and cam netting is permitted / tolerated - all depending who you work for & what he thinks of that...


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## Teflon (15 Apr 2008)

Check the various photos coming out of our guys over there and you will see that besides the arid cam cover on the helmet there is no add-on skrim or such added, no real call for it as there is MUCH less foiliage there. We didn't add it in 2006 when I was there and from the photos I don't see anyone adding it since. Not required.


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Apr 2008)

That being said geo, thought our current policy is not to have any? I know when we where in VA we were told ordered to remove all scrim and netting as current OPS don't need it.


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## geo (15 Apr 2008)

As I pointed out......



> depending who you work for & what he thinks of that...


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## Eye In The Sky (15 Apr 2008)

I can understand over in the sandbox but...what about woodland terrain, etc?  I guess my way of thinking goes back to the "10 reasons why things are seen" and think of those 10 principles.  The purpose of the scrim was to break the obviously man-made shape and silhouette of a helmet.  So in some areas, you'd think it would be still 'permitted' or required.  CADPAT and all the IR defeating properties are fine, but the shape is still the shape...isn't it?


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## I_Drive_Planes (15 Apr 2008)

I think he may be refering to a helmet *cam*era rather than helmet *cam*oflage. 

Brodie


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## eurowing (15 Apr 2008)

I thought he meant a helmet camera like this.

http://www.helmetcamera.com/


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## RCR Grunt (15 Apr 2008)

I think he is talking about a helmet mounted video camera. There were a couple guys on my roto that had them but the quality wasn't great, a little shaky and all over the place when they were in a TIC, which is where the best footage would come from. 

With OPSEC and PERSEC in mind, don't go posting vids on the YouTube. You'll be in a world of shite if you do post vids violating those protocols.


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## Nfld Sapper (15 Apr 2008)

I_Drive_Planes said:
			
		

> I think he may be refering to a helmet *cam*era rather than helmet *cam*oflage.
> 
> Brodie



Just noticed that.


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## KevinB (15 Apr 2008)

Look over at Lightifghter and the PV01 setup


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## Farmboy (15 Apr 2008)

We will have the ATS/Lightfighter Helmet Cam avalible shortly


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## George Wallace (15 Apr 2008)

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> If by "Helmet Cam" you mean scrim (that stuff that makes the helmet look like Sideshow Bob's coif), then no.  We have digital cam covered helmets.  No need for that "stuff" anymore (though some may debate this point, which is fair, this is my point).
> 
> Have a look at the pictures of troops overseas.  No scrim (on the current mission: there was some on the 2002 mission)



Back to the Scrim......It, not being chemically treated, defeats the purpose of the chemically treated, IR defeating properties, of the Digital Cam cover.


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## Harris (15 Apr 2008)

While I cannot comment on the IR defeating properities of the current issue clothing/helmet cover, I can however comment on the non-IR shielded face that is directly below the helmet cover.  It WILL show up.  I thought the whole purpose of scrim was to break up the "why things are seen" rounded shape of a helmet?  If non-IR defeating scrim is put on top of an IR-Defeating helmet cover, what exactly is the difference?  As well, aren't all the troops oversea's wearing IR enhancing patches on their uniforms for IFF?

I agree that there is a time and place for IR and scrim.  I don't agree that scrim is never to be worn again.


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## George Wallace (15 Apr 2008)

You mean you never use that carcinogenic IR reflective Cam Paint?   ;D

I think I still have some behind my ears... ;D


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## Harris (15 Apr 2008)

Stop.  Your making my skin crawl just thinking about putting that stuff on.


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## Fusaki (15 Apr 2008)

On scrim...

There was a guy in my company that wore scrim on his helmet.  IIRC he cut up one of those IR defeating AR CADPAT cam covers and tied strips of it onto his scrim net instead of the standard burlap.  At the time, I thought it was a pretty good idea since it didn't seem to conflict with his MNVG mount and it broke up the outline of his helmet very well.  Even in the barren environment of Afghanistan, I found that this individual had employed the scrim net very effectivly.

I have a scrim net made out of the TW CADPAT cam cover cut into strips.  I never really considred the IR defeating capabilities of it, but found that it lasts longer and is less messy then burlap scrim.  I took the time to put it together once and after being kicked around, soaked, and abused it's still good to go for the odd time I need to wear it. The colours are good too. The fact that it defeats (near spectrum?) IR is a bonus, but IMHO the difference is negligable due to my non-IR defeating (although still handsome) face sitting just below it.

Just my .02


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## vonGarvin (16 Apr 2008)

In my opinion, scrim is not necessary.  
I understand that the shape of a helmet is very unique.  Having said that, put two people about 100 m away from you, any terrain.  One with scrim, one without.  If your experiences are similar to mine, you'll see the scrim before the other.  
Try it out sometime.

But, then again, this is only my opinion.


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## RTaylor (16 Apr 2008)

_I don't know if this is the right place to post this. I was wondering are helmet cam allowed in the Canadian Army overseas.
Hopefully when I am done my Infantry course I will have the opportunity to head over to Afghanistan and was just wondering if Helmet cams are allowed._


With the way the OP is worded it sounds to me as if he's talking about helmet cameras, not camo.


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## Nfld Sapper (16 Apr 2008)

Yeah we noted that earlier there RTaylor.

But we continued the discussion on CAM instead.


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## RTaylor (16 Apr 2008)

Just mark me down as being blind, or retarded, or a mixture.


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## Loch Sloy! (16 Apr 2008)

Since when is scrim out? We were told to use scrim on course last summer.

I think it is quite useful to break up the outline of the helmet. An alternative would be the Israeli Mitznefet, which may look goofy but is IMO very effective.


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## dangerboy (16 Apr 2008)

Loch Sloy! said:
			
		

> Since when is scrim out? We were told to use scrim on course last summer.


I find it depends on your chain of command if you wear scrim or not.  One day you have it then have a change of OC then he may say that the company is not to wear it.  

My preference what it is worth is not to wear it, get in the way of the MNVG and can be a fire hazard.


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## X-mo-1979 (16 Apr 2008)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> My preference what it is worth is not to wear it, get in the way of the MNVG and can be a fire hazard.



 ??? ??? ???


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## George Wallace (16 Apr 2008)

I think


			
				Loch Sloy! said:
			
		

> on course


just about explains it.


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## Harris (16 Apr 2008)

dangerboy said:
			
		

> My preference what it is worth is not to wear it, get in the way of the MNVG and can be a fire hazard.



Ummm...personally I'd take a burning helmet off my head.  Seriousley though, has anyone here ever seen a soldier with a burning helmet and not other parts burning as well?  If I've done something to cause my helmet to be on fire, I suspect I've got other issues to deal with.


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## RCR Grunt (16 Apr 2008)

I use scrim.







It does not interfere mith my MNVG's, it is not a fire hazard, it is effective when used in the proper environment.  Mine is made of strips of my individual cam blanket, TW.

The fire hazard rule applies to scrim nets made of strips of old cotton t-shirts or waffle pattern long underwear.  These would catch fire if they came into contact with say, a hot machine gun barrel.  If you make your scrim from a fire resistant cam blanket or treated pieces of burlap, you will be fine.  If it interferes with your MNVG or your own vision, you've made it too long.  It just needs to break up the round rock shape of your helmet.


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## George Wallace (16 Apr 2008)

Harris said:
			
		

> Ummm...personally I'd take a burning helmet off my head.  Seriousley though, has anyone here ever seen a soldier with a burning helmet and not other parts burning as well?  If I've done something to cause my helmet to be on fire, I suspect I've got other issues to deal with.



 ;D

Well, there was this time at _______ Camp where Tpr Bloggins cleaned his scrim in naptha and then while "air drying" it on his head, lit up a smoke......


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## Nfld Sapper (16 Apr 2008)

Good old Trp Bloggins
 ;D


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## geo (17 Apr 2008)

LOL - good one George,

Reminds me of a time when fella was at the urinal doing his business & decided to toss in his cigarette butt... what he did not know was that some poor slob had just moments earlier emptied out a coleman stove's fuel cell in same said urinal..... "WHUMP!  Porcelaine all over the place & fella was checking to make sure his "lil guy" was still OK   ;D :blotto: ;D


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## DirtyDog (28 Apr 2008)

envious1 said:
			
		

> I don't know if this is the right place to post this. I was wondering are helmet cam allowed in the Canadian Army overseas.
> Hopefully when I am done my Infantry course I will have the opportunity to head over to Afghanistan and was just wondering if Helmet cams are allowed.
> 
> I do apologize if this was not the right place to post this.


You havn't even had your interview yet and your worried about capturing war footage from Afghanistan?


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## NL_engineer (28 Apr 2008)

I thought the days of scrim were over until going on the most recent ex of an unnamed infantry unit  :  we were told we would have scrim on our helmets  :


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## DirtyDog (29 Sep 2009)

Farmboy said:
			
		

> We will have the ATS/Lightfighter Helmet Cam avalible shortly


I know this is an old topic, but do you have any POVs avialable?


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