# Fixing Petawawa



## Jarnhamar (22 Sep 2007)

Half serious half banter, here are some idea's I've had on fixing Petawawa.

1)Staring. 
Wait, maybe leering is a better word. That's chargable too isn't it?
I'd say this is a 98% Regular force thing. I don't know why but everyone on the base seems to stare at you. You drive by someone and they just stare. Not so much the stare down posturing challenge to a death match type stare, just leering at you.
I've asked about it before.  "It's just someone seeing if they recognize you" or "it's because you're new".  Bullshit. That takes 1 to 3 seconds.  Leering at someone for 8 seconds is creepy. Even if you do notice a new guy in the hood, give them a nod and smile. Don't stare at em like a zombie. I'm sure people who do it don't even realise it, it happens. Next time your driving around CFB Petawawa just glace (not leer) around at people and you'll see what I mean.

2)Traffic. 
I'm not sure how to fix this, but it's crazy. Maybe I'm just not used to it.  At peek times it can take over 20 minutes to travel what normally takes 45 seconds.  Would throwing up a nother bridge across the river help? Towards all the houses on the north (?) side of town?

3)Accommodation.  
For the last 11 ish years any time I've been to pet the buildings were always being fixed, I'm not sure if their just slapping a bandaid on a severed artery here or what.  Another fun word they use is renovation. The building is under renovation, their turning this 2 person room into a 1 person room. (That was the story in 2003) Ya right. You know what that REALLY means? That 2 person room is getting 4 people shoved into it.  Reserve Sgt's and WO's heading up to Pet for TF0308 found that out the unpleasant way.  Privates and Corporals? Their stuffed 6 to 8 people to a room for the 10 month duration.  Some got lucky with only 4 to a room and a select few found accommodations at their parent unit lines but many are still 6 to 7 a room. There just isn't room.  (I'll add the accommodations people have an insane job trying to juggle this and I think bust their balls at it so good on them)
Anyhow why can't we just stop patching up old buildings, stop the renovation attempts and just build a new building? Or a few.  Maybe another large L101 type building for augmentee's and/or some more of the town house like the G lines for people staying on base 6 months +.

4)Army surplus.
I'm not sure why Pet doesn't have a booming army surplus. Maybe people feel that such a store would promote kit thief and stealing and selling of DND items?  There is a new shop that just opened. Full Spectrum Gear right in petawawa. Awesome store with great staff, if you haven't checked it out you should.
Down side(if you could call it that) is it's all brand new stuff, sometimes it's more effective to pick up something second hand. 

5)Base supply.
No complaints about these guys and girls. Very hard workers who have a huge work load (they always have customers) and the supply staff are friendly and helpful and don't just rush you along.
What I think they(supply system) should do, however,  is that when a base is gearing up to send people on tour- order extra kit! Stock up on common items, especially boots and uniforms.  Bases that are standing up battlegroups that have supply shortages should have priority and have these shortages addressed asap. Pet just got an extra 400+ soldiers for almost a year, that's a serious drain on the system.

From a reserve point of view, some regiments do everything they can to outfit their augmente's before sending them on work up training because they don't want to send guys up there with huge kit deficiencies.
Other regiments figure why not just let petawawa (or whoever) outfit them so they can save their stuff for the guys staying at the regiment.  Right or wrong who to blame aside, the importance should be getting soldiers going overseas the kit them need. 

6)Martial Arts.
For a combat base full of 'warriors' I'm really surprised there are not more martial arts schools in the area.
Do the regular force often train in hand to hand combat either as PT, classes or a course?  PT and learning to defend yourself, really surprised you don't see more of it in pet.


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## George Wallace (22 Sep 2007)

I see you are new on the ground.

Have you just recently arrived from a small town with no rush hour, and where signal lights are optional?

Accommodations?  The Liberal Government tore down half the shacks in Pet (Capital "P") to save on their Grant in lieu of Taxes to the local municipality.

Don't you have enough good kit issued that you don't need to pick up more kit from some unscrupulous dealer such as once existed in Pembroke?  Guys coming back from Tours actually found their missing kit on sale in his store.

Martial Arts?  Look around and you will find them, unless you practice some rare form that only you and your sensai know.


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## dynaglide (22 Sep 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Half serious half banter, here are some idea's I've had on fixing Petawawa.
> 
> 1)Staring.
> Wait, maybe leering is a better word. That's chargable too isn't it?
> ...




This is your beef with Petawawa?!?  I'm sensing some insecurity issues here...  Must be a reserve thing.. :


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## Reccesoldier (22 Sep 2007)

> 6)Martial Arts.
> For a combat base full of 'warriors' I'm really surprised there are not more martial arts schools in the area.
> Do the regular force often train in hand to hand combat either as PT, classes or a course?  PT and learning to defend yourself, really surprised you don't see more of it in pet.



Go ahead and find region with a similar population as Pet/Pembroke that has Jiu-Jitsu (at least two styles, One of which incorporates Kali), Kung fu, Karate (Shodokan and Goju), Systema (Russian Combat art) Thaikwondo (sp?).  Most are small clubs that advertise through PSP (on base)  or word of mouth.


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## Sig_Des (22 Sep 2007)

I'd just stare back and lick my lips


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## the 48th regulator (22 Sep 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Half serious half banter, here are some idea's I've had on fixing Petawawa.
> 
> 1)Staring.
> Wait, maybe leering is a better word. That's chargable too isn't it?
> ...









Frig,

I would be staring at you too!

I am still upset that O19 and Sassy's are gone, never mind all that other stuff!

dileas

tess


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## aesop081 (22 Sep 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> 4)Army surplus.
> I'm not sure why Pet doesn't have a booming army surplus.



What happenned to dishonest John's in Pembroke ?


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## DirtyDog (22 Sep 2007)

I'm sure ArmyVern will have some to say about base supply, or the supply system in general.  I know the lineups arer a sore point for a lot of people.  You can kill a whole afternoon waiting to exchange a helmet cover.

When I moved in the barrack warden said these shakcs were slated to be torn down at some point (despite not being all that old), but I don't think it's happening anytime soon.  Bursting and leaking plumbing seems to be fairly common.  A co-workers carpet has been soaked for 2 weeks from a bursting pipe in a nearby room and the barrack warden hasn't responded to his concerns that it be cleaned up and worries about mold.

Staring?  Maybe it's because of the funny hats you guys wear? ;D


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## Steel Badger (22 Sep 2007)

Too right mate.........who would wear a french painter's cap anyway


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## Jarnhamar (22 Sep 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Staring?  Maybe it's because of the funny hats you guys wear? ;D



If it wasn't for the reserves the regs wouldn't have anything to complain about at Timmie's  :-*


While mostly in jest the comments on accommodation and supply were serious. When we see 500 reservists descend on a base for 6 to 10 months for work up (not even taking into consideration the summer influx) that's a serious drain on the supply system and living space.  New buildings would be awesome and a padded supply system wouldn't hurt either.

Tess I thought Sassy's became Yogi's. The off base mess?
George know anyone who trains in Aikido on base?

I think dishonest johns shut down for the formentioned reason of people's kit turning up there.
If I was running a surplus store I'd find a way to mark a piece of gear, write down the sellers name and presto. If you find your pair of boots being sold in the surplus store, look up who sold them and give the MPs something to do.


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## PMedMoe (22 Sep 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Tess I thought Sassy's became Yogi's. The off base mess?



Nope, Sassy's became Que Pasa and then the teeny-bopper hangout Great Canadian Warehouse.   :


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## the 48th regulator (22 Sep 2007)

> Tess I thought Sassy's became Yogi's. The off base mess?



Blasphemy!

_ From the third verse of the book of Genesis in the King James  Tess Bible:

1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 
1:2 - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 
1:3 - And God said, Let there be light:  So the owner of Yogi's flipped the switch, and there was light. 
1:4 - And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.  Kieth's to one side Rickards on the other. _ 

dileas

tess


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## TN2IC (22 Sep 2007)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> 1:4 - And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.  Kieth's to one side Rickards on the other. [/i]



"First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.

 ;D



Regards,
TN2IC


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## Franko (22 Sep 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Half serious half banter, here are some idea's I've had on fixing Petawawa.
> 
> 1)Staring.



Probably trying to see if they know you.


> 2)Traffic.



Leave about a half an hour prior to make timings then. Wait until the entire BG gets here and we stand up.


> 3)Accommodation.



They can always put up mod tents or weather havens. At least you are under a roof. I do see where you are coming from, but I guess it's a low priority.



> 4)Army surplus.



Try the pawn shop for cheap kit.



> 5)Base supply.



Apparently (so I've been told in O-Groups) someone stood up another BG ahead of the schedule, hence the lack of kit. Not only that, but when augmentees come in, the average sizes go fast. 

I've waited a few days ago in line for over and hour and a half only to be told that "We don't have you size, sorry." I'd like to see them bring back the old sign they had behind the counter. Go in and take a look, see if your size is out of stock, then leave or stand in line.



> 6)Martial Arts.



Most lodger units have clubs and or incorporate it in PT. I know we do it all the time now. Go to DDH and get more info on the clubs availiable.

Regards


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## Strike (22 Sep 2007)

There's a Taekwondo club being run at the Pet rink (by the library) and I think they meet Mondays and Tuesdays at about 1800 where they hold bingo.

As for the staring, yes, it is annoying.  How many times did I have guys staring at me as I went to the mess to get something to eat while GDO?  Some people would literally stop eating.  And no, it wasn't to see if they knew me.  There weren't a heluva lot of women walking around in a flight suit and none of us looked alike either.


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## Armymedic (22 Sep 2007)

Ref gear:
Full Spectrum Gear on Victoria Street,  had its opening last weekend. Its got good gear, not surplus junk.

Ref accomandations:
Housing prices are still cheaper here then any of the othe brigade bases or large army bases. And where else can you still buy a house for under $200,000 that is still just a block or two from a beach?

Ref Traffic:
why drive where and when the traffic is...take Hwy 17, so you drive an extra couple kms....but you are still there faster.

As for base supply...
I am just glad I am not them.


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> I'm sure ArmyVern will have some to say about base supply, or the supply system in general.  I know the lineups arer a sore point for a lot of people.  You can kill a whole afternoon waiting to exchange a helmet cover.



I see not much changes from base to base -- Task Force to Task Force ...

Same problems:

TF1 - 07

My recommendation??



> Issue each and every soldier/sailor/airman each & every piece of deployment kit as soon as they have sucessfully completed their QL3 (Basic Trades trg) ... and it's then theirs for the remainder of career.
> 
> They say it's too expensive to do that. I say, you DAG'd, issued, returned, issued, returned, issued, & again returned mine to me 3 times in 3.5 years for deployments ... In the long run, it's simply got to be cheaper to buy each and every pers a set of deployment kit. Never mind the admin & man hours wasted running around trying to get it issued/reissued three friggin' times. And then ... if the crap should happen to hit the fan ... everyone is good-to-go ... immediately; not three months down the road when they've shipped the deployment kit from the depot in 25CFSD Montreal to whichever Unit in the country is actually deploying.


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## vonGarvin (23 Sep 2007)

Strike said:
			
		

> As for the staring, yes, it is annoying.  How many times did I have guys staring at me as I went to the mess to get something to eat while GDO?  Some people would literally stop eating.  And no, it wasn't to see if they knew me.  There weren't a heluva lot of women walking around in a flight suit and none of us looked alike either.



Well, you see, for us "non-hot non-pilots not in 'suggestive' flight suits", well, being stared at isn't a problem.  Staring at others, however, can impede our ability to drive!


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## DirtyDog (23 Sep 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Ref gear:
> Full Spectrum Gear on Victoria Street,  had its opening last weekend. Its got good gear, not surplus junk.


As in their official opening?  They've been doing business for a few months now haven't they?  I picked up a few things there atleast a month ago now.



			
				St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Ref accomandations:
> Housing prices are still cheaper here then any of the othe brigade bases or large army bases. And where else can you still buy a house for under $200,000 that is still just a block or two from a beach?


I was browsing mls.ca yesterday and was pleasantly suprised by the real estate prices.  I had heard from some of the older guys how glad they were they got in a few years ago before things got stupid around here, and coming from rural Ottawa, I've seen some hefty prices for real estate.  However, even if things have risen in recent years, it still appears to be quite reasonable to me.  Also seemed to be a few good investment opportunities with duplexes and so on.  Didn't have much luck in finding many acreage and rural listings though.


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## Jarnhamar (23 Sep 2007)

Recce By Death said:
			
		

> Leave about a half an hour prior to make timings then.


Yup, already do so.



> They can always put up mod tents or weather havens. At least you are under a roof. I do see where you are coming from, but I guess it's a low priority.


Along that train of thought, We could also just put soldiers in hoochies for 10 months.... 
That however isn't friendly to that whole quality of life issue.  I too see where you're coming from but I have to disagree. Reservists are away from home for 10 months of work up followed by 6 months of tour. 16 months compared to 8 that the regular force are away.  I agree 'it's all a part of the package, suck it up' but I just feel  that putting money into new accommodations can only benefit reserves augmenting tours, reserves up there for summer training, soldiers attach posted and regular force soldiers living in the shacks. 



> Apparently (so I've been told in O-Groups) someone stood up another BG ahead of the schedule, hence the lack of kit. Not only that, but when augmentees come in, the average sizes go fast.
> 
> I've waited a few days ago in line for over and hour and a half only to be told that "We don't have you size, sorry." I'd like to see them bring back the old sign they had behind the counter. Go in and take a look, see if your size is out of stock, then leave or stand in line.


For sure.  I went up a week before my start date to beat the rush and fix a few kit deficiencies I had. I noticed they were already short on some sizes, I recall them actually having a few shortages listed on a white board.  I'm not sure how up to date it was though.


Vern,
I like the idea on issuing everything. I'm not sure how it would effect the cost but it HAS to be less of a headache and drain on the supply system.
I don't think it would work for reserves though, do you?
Should a reservist get operational kit when their first kitted out or should they wait until their on tour? (I think the latter)
Also once a reservist goes on tour, and receives their kit, should they hand it back in or keep it once they get home? In my section alone we have about 5 guys with 10 tours collectively.


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## vonGarvin (23 Sep 2007)

Barracks will not be built in the next few months.  Here's an idea: Weatherhavens on the Mattawa?  They went up fairly quick in Kabul, and best part is: no Hesco needed!  Add a tented mess (and I mean UBER tented mess), some showers, some recreational facilities: it could be done in relatively short order.  Of course, if it happened now, it would be a reaction.  Because, you know what they say: Why plan when you can react?


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## armyvern (23 Sep 2007)

Now there's an idea ...

BATs on the Mattawa!! How much more realistic could you get??

Flawed:

One man one kit. Perhaps for the ResF, your suggestion is valid ... but, the ResF has been deployed on dom ops in support of Ice Storm, snow shovelling in TO etc ... they need their kit too, instead of scrambling for it.

Perhaps though, AR deployment kit is best held back until their first op deployment into a theatre which requires such kit ... then it's theirs for good. Granted, no members of the ResF are not required to deploy to locations requiring AR gear unless they volunteer to do so. But once they do, they should be treated just like everyone else.

Vern


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## vonGarvin (23 Sep 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> Now there's an idea ...
> 
> BATs on the Mattawa!! How much more realistic could you get??
> 
> ...


Vern: you and I should run the army.  With our common sense ideas, well....wait a minute, what was I thinking?  "Common sense"?  Sheesh.  I mean, BATs on the Mattawa for the short term, more troop housing in the long term, the ammo compound not in the middle of the training area seriously complicating templating issues AND acquiring land to the south of areas 6 and 7, clearcutting, thus allowing for 2 Canadian *MECHANISED *Brigade Group to do *MECHANISED *(eg: mech infantry, tank, and whatever) training with arcs that are wider than 400 mils!


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## Reccesoldier (23 Sep 2007)

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> the ammo compound not in the middle of the training area seriously complicating templating issues



Spoken like an AGS...  I couldn't agree more.


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## Blindspot (24 Sep 2007)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> Leering at someone for 8 seconds is creepy.



Don't you have to leer at someone for at least 8 creepy seconds to know they have been leering creepily at you for 8 seconds?  ;D


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## Roy Harding (24 Sep 2007)

Blindspot said:
			
		

> Don't you have to leer at someone for at least 8 creepy seconds to know they have been leering creepily at you for 8 seconds?  ;D



 :rofl:

Well played!!


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## brihard (25 Sep 2007)

Flawed- which unit did you end up getting sent to? Looks like we've got the full spectrum of 'total gong show' to a pretty well scheduled training regimen between now and Christmas, depending on where you ended up.

There's pretty strong RUMINT (Sgt, WO type)  that there's gonna be a room shuffle in L101 to get us in rooms with our section mates sometime this week. With a little luck we'll see a reduction in occupancy; the armoured recce and engineer guys all seem to have gone off for greener pastures... Or at least different lines.

Did you get the PM I sent you last week? I'm still trying to figure out if we've met.

And yeah, I've noticed the staring too... Maybe it's my funny hat.


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## Armymedic (25 Sep 2007)

Brihard said:
			
		

> And yeah, I've noticed the staring too... Maybe it's my funny hat.



Naw, actually its the totally clueless look you have on your face most of the day.  ;D


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## brihard (25 Sep 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Naw, actually its the totally clueless look you have on your face most of the day.  ;D



Have we met without me being aware of it? Generally, only people who know me are privy to my normal vacant look.  ;D


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## BinRat55 (26 Sep 2007)

Mortarman Rockpainter said:
			
		

> Vern: you and I should run the army.



Holy crap!!!!  I just don't know where to begin on that one!!!

Sorry Vern, you've gotta be one of the best damn soldiers I know, the second best Supply Tech I know, but running the Army?  Hmmmm, but then again - "I'd rather eat shit with the CAR (and Vern) than steak with Collinet!!"

Luvs ya Vern.


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## armyvern (26 Sep 2007)

Come on Jim,

Admit it -- the uniforms would be awesome!!  ;D


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## JesseWZ (27 Sep 2007)

The day I wear chaps to work is the day I take my release thanks.


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## Shamrock (27 Sep 2007)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> The day I wear chaps to work is the day I take my release thanks.



And pick up a job as a male stripper?


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## armyvern (27 Sep 2007)

JesseWZ said:
			
		

> The day I wear chaps to work is the day I take my release thanks.



I didn't say a word about chaps ... but now that you bring them up ... what Shamrock said!!


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## JesseWZ (27 Sep 2007)

Hmmm... they do make good tips.... and I'd get rid of all this green stuff in my closet...
 >


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## armyvern (27 Sep 2007)

It could be a whole new trade MOC MOSID!!

Heeeeeee Haaaaaaw!!!


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## JesseWZ (27 Sep 2007)

00666 Anyone?


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## Bruce Monkhouse (27 Sep 2007)

On topic folks.....


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## armyvern (27 Sep 2007)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> On topic folks.....



Sorry Boss.  :-[


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## TCBF (27 Sep 2007)

Topic you want, topic we got:  

Staring: The level of civility in the lower classes is not what it once was.  The hillbillies in some of the Q's on my street are good examples.   I don't stare back.  I never did pay much attention to livestock.

Surplus:  I once accosted a young OCdt on course in Pet (circa 1979) for wearing my 64 Pattern web gear.  It had my name stencilled on it.  Turns out, my current issue was actually behind me at the time.  He had bought the set that had been stolen from me on a 1 Cdn Fd Hosp exercise (I was a cas) at Honest John's.  The 1964 Pattern Webbing was a good seller, as the Militia were never issued it.  Officially they went from 1951 Pattern (not 1954 - that's Brit) to 1982 Pattern, missing 1964 completely.


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## armyvern (27 Sep 2007)

TCBF said:
			
		

> Topic you want, topic we got:
> ....
> Surplus:  I once accosted a young OCdt on course in Pet (circa 1979) for wearing my 64 Pattern web gear.  It had my name stenvcilled on it.  ...



Well, you may not have fixed Petawawa, but I bet you fixed him!!


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## TCBF (27 Sep 2007)

Not after I realized what had happened.  Not his fault.


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