# Canadian Magpul Source?



## Loachman (14 Sep 2007)

Is there one?

One Shot Tactical has "Ranger Plates" at $26.99 for three. I cannot view the photo from here, so I'm not quite sure exactly what is being offered.

None of the other sites that I've looked at (from the online kit website thread) seem to stock Magpuls.


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## COBRA-6 (14 Sep 2007)

Dave's Surplus and Tactical

https://dstactical.com/

edit: btw, ranger plates rock!


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## KevinB (14 Sep 2007)

- Wolverine Supplies (John Hipwell) of Virden Manitoba is the official Canadian distributor.

That said no-ones pricing in Canada on Magpul stuff is good...


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## Loachman (14 Sep 2007)

Thanks tons.

I'm not too worried about cost.

I won't have anywhere nearly as much need for these as many others, but if it saves one life (mine)...


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## darmil (23 Sep 2007)

How do the ranger plates attach?Do they come off easly?Want to get some magpuls for this tour ,liking the look of the ranger plates.


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## KevinB (23 Sep 2007)

The replace the floor plate in the issue mag --very easy to put on.


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## DirtyDog (23 Sep 2007)

If you're putting on ranger plates, might you just put in new followers and srpings as well?


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## KevinB (24 Sep 2007)

Yup you could...


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## darmil (24 Sep 2007)

I don't see any shoulder pads on that vest Kevin


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## KevinB (24 Sep 2007)

I'm pretty sure they and the neck guard are optional...  ;D


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## DirtyDog (24 Sep 2007)

Is a quality aftermarket follower and spring a worthwhile investment for the issue mags though? 

Stupid question I guess... but is it something you'd recommend or a "must have"?


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## KevinB (24 Sep 2007)

Well the Magpul enhanced follower does fit the contours of the mag - thus unlike the green and black follower it cannot nose dive and jam.  
   For must have - its really up to you.  I'm a bit anal and like to try to remove the largest issues with M16FOW reliability --- the mags...
Additionally you know your mag is bent or otherwises out of spec if the follower wont run smoothly thru the range of travel.

With the CF's (Labelle Teflon) mags which are pretty much one of the best aluminun mags on the market.  
  The US Army went with the green follower sometime in the 90's - it had a larger rear tab - but not a front tab - so it did not really solve the nosedive issue with mags.  Since then they have been in search of a High Reliability mag - with attempts like the HK SA80A2 mag, and now in some units Magpuls PMAG.
  Other have simply ordered new USGI mags - and put in the enhanced follower from Magpul.

  WRT the general increase in reliability -- well one thing, if your unit has beat to shit mags and worn spring - even the enhanced follower really wont help that much.  
For general increase in reliability  - I never had a stoppage with my C8SFW, nor so far with my M4-Recce here or my 10.5" gun using the Magpull follower - maybe it helped - maybe not.
   In Afghanistan with my M4A1 and stock USGI mags - I encountered several issues that where directly mag related (NIB USGI and green followers)  - So I am of the opinion it helps.  Since that same M4A1 was good to go with the magpul mags previously (I was leaving and gave my mags to buddies my last day at work- and went to the range for a last hurrah my second last day in country, using mags from our stores...)

 It really comes down to you if you want a few % point of reliability for a few dollars.  I do it - but it would not screw bloody murder if people with me did not.  Thats said I dont know anyone with me running M4's that does not have them, or PMAG's (the HK mags got shelved due to issues).

 -Kev


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## Armymedic (24 Sep 2007)

DirtyDog said:
			
		

> Stupid question I guess... but is it something you'd recommend or a "must have"?



Recommend, sure.

"Must have" - absolutely not.


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## Loachman (24 Sep 2007)

What, specifically, is the advantage of the Ranger Plates over the basic Magpul?

Is there any significance to the colours of the followers?


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## DirtyDog (24 Sep 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Recommend, sure.
> 
> "Must have" - absolutely not.


Maybe not an absolute "must have", but I6's ringing endorsement and explanation, coupled with the relative small expense, seems like a no brainer to me.

I've got to make a list of gucci kit in order of importnace (not shinyness ).........


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## MG34 (25 Sep 2007)

I just said to heck with it and have some Tan  PMags coming in. Anything that will enhance reliability is a good thing.


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## DirtyDog (25 Sep 2007)

I talked to a friend today and he said he was issued magpuls on the last tour.  Would that be a unit specific thing (ie. something I shouldn't count on and buy them now)?


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## KevinB (25 Sep 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> I just said to heck with it and have some Tan  PMags coming in. Anything that will enhance reliability is a good thing.



That would be my recommendation.
  With the Canadian dollar at what it is -- it would be cheaper to go that route, than buy from Canadian sources.

  Plus while I wont revel it here - I know what the they price is from Magpul for a unit or distributor -- those selling to the public are making a killing...


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## Loachman (25 Sep 2007)

MG34 said:
			
		

> I just said to heck with it and have some Tan  PMags coming in. Anything that will enhance reliability is a good thing.


I would too, were they not prohibited devices in Canada.


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## RHFC_piper (25 Sep 2007)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I would too, were they not prohibited devices in Canada.



Does anyone know of a source for PMags which might deliver to Canada?

As Loachman stated; because they're prohibited (mag capacity) most retailers will not ship them to Canada... And if caught by customs, they may be confiscated (learned from bad experience).  So unless the mag is pinned to 5 rounds, which obviously makes it useless, or you go into the states... just for mags...  they're not available.

Not that I want to blatantly break the law or anything, I just really really really want these mags... and I'm just going to hold my breath until I get them or pass out waiting...


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## Loachman (25 Sep 2007)

One of the flaws in a badly flawed law:

With respect to firearms, the legislation says that the frame or receiver constitutes a firearm under the law (ignoring those firearms which have neither). Everything other than the frame or receiver is an uncontrolled part.

There is no such equivalent when it comes to magazines. Every component is an uncontrolled part.

You could purchase magazine bodies by the ton, and be quite legal.

You could amass thousands of springs, and remain on the right side of the law.

Followers? Base plates? Go wild, and still feel safe from prosecution.

Assemble one set of parts into a complete mag, however, and you're liable for a lengthy stay in a facility with a better standard of accommodation than some transient quarters.

If Magpul sells components, you could make four separate orders - but there are still restrictions to export from the US under ITAR.


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## Armymedic (25 Sep 2007)

Are you guys buying these PMags for work or for your own off time shooting?

If you still work for the CF, why are you putting down the money?


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## Matt_Fisher (25 Sep 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Are you guys buying these PMags for work or for your own off time shooting?
> 
> If you still work for the CF, why are you putting down the money?



I think that these guys are in units that don't have the budget that other units may have, or the desire to push the DLR envelope when it comes to weapons accessories purchased at the unit level.  If it were me looking to make my mags alot more reliable, I'd probably stick with the issued mag bodies, but look at replacing the followers with the magpul ones, some newer springs, and maybe some ranger plates instead of the issued baseplates.  That said, the Magpul P-Mag looks like a very interesting product, but given Canada's restrictive firearms importation laws, there are some easier ways to make your mags more functional and reliable.


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## DirtyDog (25 Sep 2007)

Matt_Fisher said:
			
		

> I think that these guys are in units that don't have the budget that other units may have, or the desire to push the DLR envelope when it comes to weapons accessories purchased at the unit level.  If it were me looking to make my mags alot more reliable, I'd probably stick with the issued mag bodies, but look at replacing the followers with the magpul ones, some newer springs, and maybe some ranger plates instead of the issued baseplates.  That said, the Magpul P-Mag looks like a very interesting product, but given Canada's restrictive firearms importation laws, there are some easier ways to make your mags more functional and reliable.


If it's posible to somehow get Pmags up here, I think it would make more fiancial sense to buy an actual PMag then spend the money on springs and followers.  That's just the math whe looking at the prices of components from Canadian sources, and the price i see Pmags quoted for in the US.


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## Loachman (25 Sep 2007)

Try and find a US dealer who will go through the hassle of shipping any firearms accessory to this country.


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## DirtyDog (25 Sep 2007)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Try and find a US dealer who will go through the hassle of shipping any firearms accessory to this country.


Or a friend?  Is there possibl legal reprecussions if they get stuck at the border or will they just "return to sender"?


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## RHFC_piper (26 Sep 2007)

St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> Are you guys buying these PMags for work or for your own off time shooting?



A little from column A, a little from Column B.   Personally, I just want some for use in Trg and possible future deployment.



			
				St. Micheals Medical Team said:
			
		

> If you still work for the CF, why are you putting down the money?



Reserves.  No budget.  Old weapons and EIS that falls apart.  All of are C7s are older than most of the troops using them.

Besides; before I deployed, I dropped about $1000 on tactical kit (chest rig, rails, fore grips, dump pouch, drop leg, etc) and although I was only there for 3 weeks, I used every piece of kit, and am confident that those pieces of kit aided me every day I used them, especially when I really needed them... like in 4+ hour fire fights.
Now that I'm back, and am thinking of another deployment, or perhaps a career change that will put me back into the same type of situation, and I've learned more about what is out there, and how it would have benefited me in combat, I've greatly increased the amount of kit I would like which is beyond the Army's budget/knowledge.

Here's how I see it; When I finished college (for General metal machining and CNC) and started working in a machine shop, tools were provided.  The tools were adequate for the most basic of operations and were fine when I was learning how to do things.  Then after a while, while looking around, learning more about my trade, talking to other certified machinists with real world experience, I realized that the "issued" tools were garbage.  Cheapest on the market. They broke, they bent, they weren't accurate when they needed to be and they were constantly being replaced with more crap that was just as useless.  

I had always wondered why the other machinists had their own tool chests full of pretty much the same stuff but higher quality, as well as stuff I had never seen before... then I started to notice that they were working more quickly and efficiently than me... Why? 'cause, besides the TI and experience, they had the right tools for the job and they lost very little, if any, time to broken tools.

I thought about this, and even used Statistical Process Control to estimate time and cost loss for damaged tools; it turns out that I was less than half as effective than my equally trained and educated counterparts in the shop who had their own tools (more than 75% less effective than the "old boys"... but thats just time in.).  With this knowledge in mind, I started using a large chunk of my pay check on "good" tools.  By the time I left that job, I had invested around $5000 in tools (about 3/4 of other machinists annual tool budget)... I didn't consider this a "loss" or a bad move, cause the next job I got paid 3 times as much, and required employees to come equipped with their own tools... and even had an "tool allowance" for replacements.

Where am I going with this?  Most, if not all, technical professionals, in just about any trade, will opt to use their own tools and even go as far as to buy their own out of pocket. Why? 'cause they're professionals... they know what they need to get the job done. They work with the equipment every day and know what works best.  How does this equate to the military? We're supposed to be "professional soldiers".  Most soldiers can figure out what works best, but unfortunately, we're stuck with the "issued kit' which can sometimes be sub-par.  Don't get me wrong, for some people, the issued kit works great.. some people can make it work for them.  But most soldiers would probably prefer to use kit that they know, for sure, works for them.  Professionals make their tools work for them... they don't work for their tools.

Anyway, I could go on for hours about why we should have the option to use the kit that we feel works best for us, and even how to facilitate this idea, but it will only move this topic even more off course and I'm just sick of pushing the big rock up the steep hill (the whole issue).  There's more than enough threads on these forums about all the "it would be nice", and "we should have, but don't" as well as the "why don't we use this, it's better than what we have."  Unfortunately, it's like trying to explain the importance of the mission in Afghanistan to a pot smoking, tree hugging, birkinstock wearin', granola eating, hippy, Taleban supporting NDP leader... You could show every aspect of it, and it'll still be ignored.  





I'm not bitter, I'm just misunderstood.


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## Loachman (26 Sep 2007)

What do you have against bitter?

I'm bitter, and I revel in my bitterness.

Anyway, to get back on topic with a previously-asked but as yet unanswered question, what's the advantage to Ranger Plates? What do they do that the regular base plates and Magpuls don't?


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## mudgunner49 (26 Sep 2007)

Loachman said:
			
		

> What do you have against bitter?
> 
> I'm bitter, and I revel in my bitterness.
> 
> Anyway, to get back on topic with a previously-asked but as yet unanswered question, what's the advantage to Ranger Plates? What do they do that the regular base plates and Magpuls don't?



Fit better in a mag pouch  

Since they are a direct replacement for the base plate of the mag, they don't increase the size of the mag either fore/aft or side to side.  If you are using a mag pouch that covers most of the mag (ie. Crap Vest) or puts several mags in close proximity to one another, you may experience some difficulty either getting the mag pouch closed on a full load or (more critically) getting the mag out in a timely fashion...


ymmv

blake


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## KevinB (26 Sep 2007)

and damn they look cooler.

  Actually on Hk and the CF Teflon mag they are a little slick sided (compared to a powder coated mag) and I've seen magpuls pulled off a mag when the mag got hung up.

Legally you can take the mag apart in the US and bring it over.  However CBSA have different rules than Canadian Law - and they want the mag pinned previous to it being imported.

Walt @ Arms East (Newfoundland) brings in a bunch of stuff - he brought in 10.3 CMMG uppers (only for sale to Mil/LE pers, (reg or reserve and indivual purchase is okay)
  Wolverine Supplies (Virden Mb), The Shooting Edge (Cgy Ab), P&D (Edm Ab), and CRAFM (Montreal Que) all bring in stuff.


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## Farmboy (26 Sep 2007)

Got a picture of the plate on one of my mags.


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## KevinB (26 Sep 2007)

D - you gotta get a PMAG hook up bro.


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## Farmboy (26 Sep 2007)

Yeah, I hear you on that!


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## Bzzliteyr (3 Oct 2007)

I am thinking with a US APO.. like here in Ghanafistan, I can order some of those puppies for me.. hmmm


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## medaid (3 Oct 2007)

D,

   DS Tactical here is also looking at bringing PMAGs in... Do it post haste mate!


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## KevinB (3 Oct 2007)

Bzzliteyr said:
			
		

> I am thinking with a US APO.. like here in Ghanafistan, I can order some of those puppies for me.. hmmm


  

 In theory you can't send Mags thru the mail...

But I'm living proof you can


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## Bzzliteyr (3 Oct 2007)

On LF, all the guys have ordered them, no?  It will be leaving a US  store into a US post office, probably the safest way of handling it, no?


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## medaid (3 Oct 2007)

Canada would be that much closer to heaven if we removed all these rediculous banns and rules!


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## RHFC_piper (3 Oct 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Canada would be that much closer to heaven if we removed all these rediculous banns and rules!



Well.. c'mon now... you know, only registered weapons are used in crime...  our system is very good at keeping illegal, unregistered weapons off the streets... so the gov has to put restrictions on the weapons they can already account for, or we'd just run around capping each other...  Besides, you really can't kill anyone with any less than 6 bullets... that's why mags are pinned to 5.  :  [/Sarcasm]


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## Loachman (3 Oct 2007)

Attempting to reduce murder by restricting mags to 5 (rifle) or 10 (pistol) rounds is like trying to reduce drunk driving deaths by prohibitinig the sale of beer in anything bigger than a six-pack.


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## RHFC_piper (3 Oct 2007)

Loachman said:
			
		

> Attempting to reduce murder by restricting mags to 5 (rifle) or 10 (pistol) rounds is like trying to reduce drunk driving deaths by prohibiting the sale of beer in anything bigger than a six-pack.



Exactly...  It only takes one round to kill... 

Silly gun laws...

But back on track... When someone figures out how to get PMAGs, let me know... as I've said before; I WANT!!


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## Bzzliteyr (3 Oct 2007)

Someone once said to me.. when I mentioned having accidentally brought my "real" mags home with me.. "do you have an ar-15 at home?"  I said of course not.. "then what's the worry".  It kind of made sense but on that note I ask, is there a clause in the rules that states you have to own the weapon the mags are for?  Or does it not make a difference?  Just owning a mag can get you time in jail/hand slapping?


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## Loachman (3 Oct 2007)

The magazines themselves are prohibited. It makes no difference if you own the matching weapon or not.

But, as I've posted somewhere (might be this thread), no single part of a mag legally constitutes a mag as the "frame or receiver" legally constitutes a firearm. All of a mag's components are, therefore, under the legislation, simply uncontrolled parts until they are assembled into a complete mag. That concept has not yet been tested in the courts, however - but to rule contrary to that would require a judge to decide which part, if any, does and that requires a legal leap. The "pinning" guidelines are exactly that: guidelines. They are not written into the legislation or its attendant regulations. "Suggestions" in the "guidelines" include pins through the body or a post upwards from the baseplate, hence the inability to legally determine which part must be modified. The courts are supposed to interpret legislation, and not write missing bits in.

One could, then, pin bodies on some mags and "permanently" (again, not defined) attach posts to the baseplates of others and, should one subsequently go "postal", swap the parts to provide some whole mags (and some ruined ones). One could also simply drill pins out, too.

As the late Dave Tomlinson of the NFA was fond of saying. "It doesn't have to make sense, it's government policy".


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## medaid (3 Oct 2007)

At times I just get irrate that's all. Any well trained person can reload a mag 5rnd mag just as fast if not faster then an idiot shooting a 30rnd mag... That's just me though


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## Loachman (3 Oct 2007)

MedTech said:
			
		

> Any well trained person can reload a mag 5rnd mag just as fast if not faster then an idiot shooting a 30rnd mag...



Yup. Hence my six-pack comparison.

In most crimes, even a single-shot firearm is adequate, as victims are too stunned to react anyway.

The laws and regulations were written by highly prejudiced people with absolutely no knowledge of firearms for highly prejudiced people with absolutely no knowledge of firearms.


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## KevinB (4 Oct 2007)

A judge ruled in Calgary (circa 1996) in R v. MacDonald that the magazine when disassembled is not a prohibited device.  Its never been tested in superior court.


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## Loachman (4 Oct 2007)

Thanks. I missed or forgot that one.


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