# Graduated, Applied and Seeking Advice



## chrisispoop (7 Sep 2012)

Greetings ladies and gents,

Long time member here returning after many years of inactivity. Top reason to explain my return is due to my recent application to the CF. I joined the forum back on 2007 asking tidbits of questions here and there throughout the years while schooling. All I can say was that you guys were supportive and overall great, so thank you for that. Hopefully you can help me once again as I am making critical life choices right now and I need experienced advice.

I graduated University with a BA in Psychology back in April. In addition, I have also received a diploma in Police Foundations. So that is enough schooling for me and I am ready to start my life. If you haven't guessed yet, my career goal is to be a police officer, but not just yet. I am 22 years old and need to strengthen my personality and confidence through various work experience. Over the summer I thought over and over what the best way to start was. I don't want to find myself 'stuck' in a job that was only supposed to be temporary. In the end my choice is to be a part of the Reserves and work/volunteer during the weekdays. As policing is extremely competitive to get into, I see taking this path as the best route in regards to who I am. 

I applied online through the Forces.ca website two weeks ago. I sent in my supporting documents via fax and lettermail on the same day (I always need a backup :2c. At this point in time my online status in regards to the documents hasn't been updating implicating they likely haven't been processed yet. According to the information package I received from the CF after ordering online about two years ago, it stated that the online application was the best approach. It stated that if this was not an option, mailing or going to a recruiting center would be an alternative. I am a little nervous about this decision now as I have read various posts which basically said that the way you present yourself (in person) and how you cooperate with your recruiter will most likely have an impact on your processing time. Does this hold any truth? It appears a lot of people go in person rather than apply online. I would certainly rather be a face to a name than just some name and profile in a computer. 

Upon applying, I chose infantry and only that trade. I still do not know if this this is considered bad life decisions or just dedication as I am fully am aware how difficult it is to get into. A friend of mine who is an infantry reservist (in Toronto, which is where I am from as well) said my chances are pretty good to get in when I told him I had my doubts. However as of late, I am currently emailing to see if I can get Combat Engineer added to my trade choices. 

I also am playing the waiting game here. I called the Recruiting Office in North Bay and a recruiter told me was approximately 6 weeks before I heard from a response regarding my online application. There seems to be no guarantees though in the recruiting process. Therefore I am deciding whether to get a full time job or volunteer at numerous positions. Currently I am leaning toward volunteering at a high rate as I can build experience, and still keep the references if I am selected for the CF and go off to BMQ. However a job is a little bit more complicated as they wouldn't be too pleased with hiring/training me and then finding out I am quitting a few months later, thus losing a possible reference and a job I may enjoy. I don't think talking to an employer in advance that I may or may not be leaving for a few weeks would make them too pleased either. I will certainly obtain another main job after getting into the reserves. Currently money isn't really an issue. Right now my biggest fear is them giving me a flat out no that I can't get in at this point in time. Things would be easier if I already had a job but I currently don't, so I am trying to deal with my situation without looking at it with Hindsight. 

Well this has been a long rant of everything going on in my mind at this point in time. If you have read this far I am really appreciative and thank you for your time regardless whether you respond or not. For those that respond I thank you in advance and I will be actively reading following posts and responding.

Thanks again

Kind Regards
- ChrisK


----------



## aesop081 (7 Sep 2012)

ChrisK said:
			
		

> There seems to be no guarantees though in the recruiting process.



There are none. Why would there be ? The process exists to fill positions with the best possible applicants, not any applicant.

Good luck whit whatever you decide to do.


----------



## brihard (7 Sep 2012)

There are 168 hours in a week, which leaves you at least 100 after sleeping. No reason you can't both get a full time job and volunteer your time while you wait. If you intend to be a police officer, that will be the sort of thing they expect to see.

There are no guarantees in joining the military, and these days very little is happening fast. Infantry is high demand from the applicants' side, with little supply of positions, and they've recently done a selection for it. I would proceed on the assumption that you won't get in, and if you do that's just an added bonus.

I would also consider beginning police applications with various forces now. You'd be surprised how long they can take, and you may just get a lucky break and make it through while in your early 20s because of your education.

Where roughly do you live? That might help to tailor some advice to your situation. The reserves may also be an option if the reg force isn't looking too hot right now.


----------



## dimsum (7 Sep 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> There are no guarantees in joining the military life.



Fixed.  Welcome.


----------



## brihard (7 Sep 2012)

Dimsum said:
			
		

> Fixed.  Welcome.



Sure there are- death and taxes.  ;D


----------



## chrisispoop (7 Sep 2012)

Brihard said:
			
		

> Where roughly do you live? That might help to tailor some advice to your situation. The reserves may also be an option if the reg force isn't looking too hot right now.



I apologize if I wasn't clear in my post, I guess I stated reserves and infantry in two separate paragraphs.  But as you stated, that is the overall plan of mine. I wish to work reserve hours (weekends/parade) and have another job as well, volunteering whenever I can. I live in Mississauga Ontario.



			
				CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> There are none. Why would there be ? The process exists to fill positions with the best possible applicants, not any applicant.
> 
> Good luck whit whatever you decide to do.



In regards to CND Aviator. I don't want to imply that I expect to get in the CF. I understand you probably see numerous posts with people thinking the military as a fallback. For me it has always been vastly underlying choice of mine. I just didn't know when that time would come but it has arrived. Just like any other job, I expect it to be difficult to get into something you want. But the reality is that there is only one army in Canada and so you can only just hope you will be picked.

I mentioned in my original posting that a recruiter will make contact within approx 6 weeks of application. Is being selected to take the next steps a common thing upon applicants regardless of position availability?


----------



## Eaglelord17 (7 Sep 2012)

I would recommend finding what reserve units are in your area then contacting them. The trades available to you as a reservist depend on the types of units in your area. Doing a quick search on google it says the The Toronto Scottish Regiment’s 75th Company has a unit at the armouries there (there maybe more but this is just what google turned up quickly). Give them a call and talk to their recruiter. If you could also try to get your application done there instead of online as it tends to be a lot quicker and much easier for reservists.


----------



## mariomike (8 Sep 2012)

ChrisK said:
			
		

> If you haven't guessed yet, my career goal is to be a police officer, but not just yet. I am 22 years old < snip >





			
				ChrisK said:
			
		

> I live in Mississauga Ontario.



I guess you are aware of local cadet programs. In case you are not,

Peel Regional Police:
http://www.peelpolice.on.ca/en/jobsopportunities/minimumqualificationscadet.asp

"Be at least 18 years of age."

I noticed this in their FAQ:

"• Will my experience in the Military help?
- Each applicant is viewed individually. Military service is neither an advantage nor a
disadvantage."

Halton Regional Police:
http://www.hrps.on.ca/JOINUS/Pages/BeAPoliceCadet.aspx

"Session dates for the 2013 Police Cadet program will be announced here on September 26, 2012. The Application process will begin in November, 2012." 

"Desired Qualifications:
Between the ages of 19-24 years of age"


----------



## chrisispoop (8 Sep 2012)

Eaglelord17 said:
			
		

> I would recommend finding what reserve units are in your area then contacting them. The trades available to you as a reservist depend on the types of units in your area. Doing a quick search on google it says the The Toronto Scottish Regiment’s 75th Company has a unit at the armouries there (there maybe more but this is just what google turned up quickly). Give them a call and talk to their recruiter. If you could also try to get your application done there instead of online as it tends to be a lot quicker and much easier for reservists.



That is an excellent idea. I guess the CF website is more zoned in and directed towards full timers? I managed to find a large list of all the reserve units in Toronto. I am actually surprised to see how many showed up. I thought that there would be a few at most but I think it was about 15 or so that appeared. Better yet about a third of them are infantry which surely appeals to me. They will certainly be getting called come Monday morning. If all of them say no to me, well then that's the que I have been seeking to quite waiting around. The beacon of hope is lit.


----------



## chrisispoop (8 Sep 2012)

mariomike said:
			
		

> I guess you are aware of local cadet programs. In case you are not,
> 
> Peel Regional Police:
> http://www.peelpolice.on.ca/en/jobsopportunities/minimumqualificationscadet.asp
> ...



Hey thank you for that. Regardless I am aware of these opportunities but just through another name, Auxillary. I know someone currently taking this program in Niagara Falls. Out of several hundred that applied, about 10 were chosen. Calling it extremely difficult to get into is about right. I would definitely consider applying for this in the future but its something you participate in while your full time schooling/working because its one day a week.

 I find it very interesting they put that military service as something that is nullified. I guess I want to be willfully ignorant but I don't think its completely true. The police look for what are called eight essential competencies upon hiring. Analytical thinking, self-confidence, communication, flexibility, self-control, relationship building, achievement orientation, physical/medical fitness. If the army doesn't demonstrate a majority if not all of these I don't know what will. Furthermore, the police force is a paramilitary organization...


----------



## RCDtpr (8 Sep 2012)

Cadets are not auxillaries....two very separate programs.  Auxillaries are volunteers.  Cadets are paid and typically work full time for the police service.

As for police competencies.....you can get them by working at McDonald's.  Getting on with a police service is all based on the individual.  An idiot with military experience is still an idiot.....


----------



## mariomike (8 Sep 2012)

ChrisK said:
			
		

> Regardless I am aware of these opportunities but just through another name, Auxillary.



As MP_hopeful said, 

Police Cadet is a job. Police Auxilliary is an unpaid volunteer.

You can see for yourself.

Peel Region Police Auxilliary:
http://www.peelpolice.on.ca/en/jobsopportunities/auxiliarypolice.asp

Peel Region Police Cadet:
http://www.peelpolice.on.ca/en/jobsopportunities/minimumqualificationscadet.asp

Halton Region Police Auxilliary:
http://www.hrps.on.ca/JoinUs/BeAnAuxiliaryOfficer/Pages/default.aspx

Halton Region Police Cadet:
http://www.hrps.on.ca/JoinUs/Pages/BeAPoliceCadet.aspx

"Individuals hired as Police Cadets with the Halton Regional Police Service will be paid a salary for the duration of their one year work experience program.

Work term commences in May, 2013.

Candidates will be assigned varied shifts, including days, evenings, nights and weekends."

Police Cadets ( not Auxilliary ) are included in the OMERS Supplemental Pension Plan for Police, Firefighters and Paramedics. 
(4) In subsection (3), “police officer” includes a police cadet.:
http://www.omers.com/pdf/Supp_Plan_text.pdf


----------



## chrisispoop (8 Sep 2012)

MP_hopeful said:
			
		

> Cadets are not auxillaries....two very separate programs.  Auxillaries are volunteers.  Cadets are paid and typically work full time for the police service.
> 
> As for police competencies.....you can get them by working at McDonald's.  Getting on with a police service is all based on the individual.  An idiot with military experience is still an idiot.....




Ahh okay my apologies for the mistake, I appreciate your help. I think I remember hearing something about that a few years ago. I will have to look into that now. 

I definably agree with you. You may or may not come out of the military a more skilled person. However wouldn't you be able to demonstrate how capable you are through your experiences? In the spectrum of examples to give to an interviewer, I figure that the ones the military would be much more on the extreme side and therefore end up being more impressive. I'm not talking about guns ablazin but instead I'm referring to the other tasks that really show ones potential; endurance, formality, teamwork/cooperation, professionalism. All the things that aid to being a police officer. 

Obviously other jobs have these traits but not to the same extent. As I said in my OP, other than experience, I want to build myself. I want to strengthen my character. I fear any other job wouldn't be able to provide this.


----------



## mariomike (8 Sep 2012)

ChrisK said:
			
		

> I find it very interesting they put that military service as something that is nullified.



A few topics you may find interesting.

"Will Military Expierience Up The Chances For Police Recruiting?":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/45176.0
5 pages.

"Military to Police Career":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/92660.0

"Military service on a non-military resume":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102576.0

"Police and Military Experience":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32733.0


----------



## aesop081 (8 Sep 2012)

ChrisK said:
			
		

> I find it very interesting they put that military service as something that is nullified. I guess I want to be willfully ignorant but I don't think its completely true. The police look for what are called eight essential competencies upon hiring. Analytical thinking, self-confidence, communication, flexibility, self-control, relationship building, achievement orientation, physical/medical fitness. If the army doesn't demonstrate a majority if not all of these I don't know what will. Furthermore, the police force is a paramilitary organization...



Considering it came from a police department website's FAQ, i'm sure we know what the police thinks about what they are looking for and what weight they put on military service.


----------



## chrisispoop (8 Sep 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Considering it came from a police department website's FAQ, i'm sure we know what the police thinks about what they are looking for and what weight they put on military service.



Alright your sure, what are you sure about. 

In my opinion the faq's on all the police department sites are extremely vaque. I have checked with mariomike's threads and looked at the police websites that talk about military experience. 

Hamilton and Peel state:
"Each applicant is viewed individually. Military service is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage."

York states 
" York Regional Police values the contributions made by the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces. While specialized military training will very likely prove valuable once an applicant is hired with York Regional Police, the Constable Selection Process remains the same for every applicant regardless of military service."

Toronto states
"Although we appreciate your service in the military, all current and past members of any military service will proceed through the Constable Selection System like any other candidate."

Essentially what they all say is no, you will not be favored because you have been in the military. Potentially to help explain to people that being a soldier does not make you more deserving of getting chosen to take the interview.

However what all of these answers fail to tell you is what I would consider the most important aspects
     - No where do any of these remotely state you cannot use your military experience on an application
     - It does not state that upon an interview, you cannot use your military background as examples of the 8 core police competencies
     - It neither says any military experience example you may provide will be better or worse than any other sample. Thus stating an example is an example, if you have it... use it.


Besides, getting into the police force is highly based off the connections you have, as like any other job. Can you honestly tell me anyone you have ever met in the military, their parents/relatives/friends or even kids are in the police force. Perhaps I can get a connection just by being in the reserves. A potential future reference alone is a good enough reason alone just to be a part of it.


----------



## RCDtpr (8 Sep 2012)

When I was going through the process before I got an OT to MP I was deferred by two services.  The reason?  I was not successful on the competencies interviews.  While I won't go into specifics, the questions that were asked were actually hard/next to impossible for me to come up with an example for, due to the fact I had nothing more than my military experience to rely on.  This was shortly after I got home from Afghanistan.

I'm not saying military experience isn't valuable, but looking back at the questions I was asked for the competencies, I can now think of better examples and not one comes from my military experience.  Volunteer, and since I see you are looking into the reserves....get a full-time job in the customer service field.  Trust me

P.S. these were services in the GTA.


----------



## mariomike (8 Sep 2012)

ChrisK said:
			
		

> Perhaps I can get a connection just by being in the reserves.



Look at the percentages for that happening.

According to the TPS website, out of approximately 7,700 uniform and civilian members, they have "42 active reservists".



			
				MP_hopeful said:
			
		

> Volunteer, and since I see you are looking into the reserves....get a full-time job in the customer service field.  Trust me
> 
> P.S. these were services in the GTA.



Police auxiliary may be an option worth considering. 

You gain the much needed volunteer hours ( and customer service experience ) wearing the uniform of the city you hope to be employed by.   

As well as making "connections".


----------

