# Air Weapons System Technician (AWS TECH)



## PointZero (17 Feb 2011)

Ive searched but found very little info about this trade
Does it offer specialist pay?
Do they just install the weapons on the aircraft or are they the complete weapons team for the airforce and install and test the weapons.
Is it a trade that is in demand or should i just become a AVN Tech or AVS Tech


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## Occam (17 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> Ive searched but found very little info about this trade



That's because it doesn't exist.

I stand corrected.  When did they sneak that one in?

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/airweaponssystemstechnician-166#info-1

I thought Air Weapons went the way of the dodo...


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## PMedMoe (17 Feb 2011)

Pretty much what you asked here.  

Be patient when waiting for replies to your question(s).  Posting (basically) the same thing again, isn't going to get more people to reply.


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## aesop081 (17 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> Do they just install the weapons on the aircraft



No. They not only load the weapons on the aircrafts but also maintain those weapons and assemble them for use. Thye also take care of disposing on time expired and defective  munitions and other air weapons related equipment.

I'm not sure what you are asking by "test the weapons".


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## Occam (17 Feb 2011)

According to TABLE A TO CBI 204.30 - ALLOCATION OF MOSID TO SPECIALIST TRADE GROUPS, it is not in the specialist trade groups.


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## aesop081 (17 Feb 2011)

Occam said:
			
		

> According to TABLE A TO CBI 204.30 - ALLOCATION OF MOSID TO SPECIALIST TRADE GROUPS, it is not in the specialist trade groups.



Looks like that CBI table is from 2004......before the standup of AWS tech.


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## PointZero (17 Feb 2011)

A recuiter just told me they are offerd spec 1 pay    Also do AWS techs just work on CF-18s


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## Griffon (17 Feb 2011)

AWS Tech is a spec trade, and is being brough back from the dead because it is quite specialized.  AVN Techs on the CF-18 (the primary kill-store fleet in the CF) are split up into three streams - AVN "A" (Propulsion Systems), AVN "B" (Airframe), and AVN "C" (AWS/Life Support/Safety Systems).

AVN "A" and AVN "B" cross-train with each other to some extent at the flying squadrons, but the AVN "C" technicians do not due to the specialized nature of their work.  It was decided in the Air Occupation Enhancement that Air Weapons and Life Support/Safety systems will split off from the AVN trade, with the latter portions being absorbed by the ACS trade.

That leaves AWS Technicians on their own, which actually makes some sense.  The nature of the work the "Armourers" do is not very similar to the work the AVN "A" and "B"s do, the only real similarity is that they work on the aircraft.


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## Griffon (17 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> Also do AWS techs just work on CF-18s



No.  They also work on the CP-140 and other aircraft that carry stores, and they also man all the Air Force munitions depots (bomb dumps).  There are also a few Explosive Ordinance Disposal (EOD) units in the AF that are manned by these personnel.


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## PointZero (17 Feb 2011)

So all they basically do is load unload maintain and test the aircrafts weapons    AVN or AESop seems alot more fun if thats all they do


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## aesop081 (17 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> So all they basically do is load unload maintain and test the aircrafts weapons    AVN or AESop seems alot more fun if thats all they do



What is it that you expected AWS techs to be doing then ??


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## PointZero (17 Feb 2011)

I thoughted they would also install the weapons electrical systems and things like that


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## aesop081 (17 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> I thoughted they would also install the weapons electrical systems and things like that



What ?


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## PointZero (17 Feb 2011)

Sorry just had my wisdom teeth taken out and the painkillers screw me over.  I meant i thought that AWS techs also do electrical weapon systems within the aircraft.


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## aesop081 (17 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> Sorry just had my wisdom teeth taken out and the painkillers screw me over.  I meant i thought that AWS techs also do electrical weapon systems within the aircraft.



Sorry about the teeth and my endless questions but what do you mean by "electrical weapons systems" ?


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## PointZero (17 Feb 2011)

I mean like they would work on all the electrical systems on the aircraft that have something to do with weapons


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## Griffon (17 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> I mean like they would work on all the electrical systems on the aircraft that have something to do with weapons



They do.  From the Recruiting Website: "The AWS TECH is responsible for the maintenance of aircraft air weapons *systems* from storage to target including all mechanical and electronic components.".  That means the systems on the aircraft in addition to the weapons themselves.

Mods - could we move this thread to the Maintainer's Bench, AWST isn't an Aircrew Occ...

Thanks.


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## aesop081 (17 Feb 2011)

To add to what Griffon said above, aircraft are maintaned as a team and there are almost always areas of overlap between the different maintenance specialities. Nothing works in isolation in complex aircraft.


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## PointZero (18 Feb 2011)

So even though AWS techs do aircraft weapons they also along with AVNs AVCs and AVSs preform simple duties like towing and refueling aircraft?


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## aesop081 (18 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> So even though AWS techs do aircraft weapons they also along with AVNs AVCs and AVSs preform simple duties like towing and refueling aircraft?



I cant speak to that, not being a technician myself and i imagine that it would depend on the aircraft fleet being worked on. What i meant is that, for example, theres an electrical snag with part of the weapon system, sometimes it will take a weapons guy and an avionics guy to sort it out.


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## Griffon (18 Feb 2011)

PointZero said:
			
		

> So even though AWS techs do aircraft weapons they also along with AVNs AVCs and AVSs preform simple duties like towing and refueling aircraft?



I can only speak to the CF-18 fleet, where they are qualified to carry out aircraft servicing tasks such as towing, refuelling, before and after flight checks, etc.  But they are not usually tasked to carry out these functions as they are usually busy doing such things as weapons convoys while the aircraft are being checked and towed out in the morning. When the checks are done they will carry out the loads on the aircraft while the servicing crews finish off paperwork and other work in preparation for the upcoming launch.  It's all fairly choreographed in that there are a lot of concurrent activities going on at the squadron to ensure maximum efficiency, which usually means the AWS techs don't do a lot of servicing.


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## nickanick (15 Jun 2011)

In the website it mentioned that 
"They will also be called upon to perform some duties in airborne aircraft." 
Does it mean it will be operating weapons? 

Also, What is Aircraft Maintenance Superintendent (AM Sup)?


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## aesop081 (15 Jun 2011)

nickanick said:
			
		

> Does it mean it will be operating weapons?



No.



> Also, What is Aircraft Maintenance Superintendent (AM Sup)?



A WO or above in charge of supervising maintenance operations.


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## nickanick (15 Jun 2011)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> No.
> 
> What is the AWS tech's duty when airborne ?
> 
> What kind of aircraft do they get on?


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## aesop081 (15 Jun 2011)

nickanick said:
			
		

> What is the AWS tech's duty when airborne ?



As far as i know, they only go flying when it is required to troubleshoot problems. They are not crewmembers that operate weapons, thats what aircrews do.


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## bison33 (22 Jul 2011)

Another thread in the wrong area. This should be in Maintainer's Bench.


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## Kennedy890 (20 Sep 2011)

I am a AWST or AVN C if you have any questions regarding the Trade msg me and I will try and answer them to the best of my knowledge.


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## cg33 (5 Mar 2013)

Hi Guys,

Does anyone here know the length of the AVS QL3 in Borden and how often they run it. Does anyone know the dates for this coming fiscal year 2013-2014? 
I am transferring from the reserves to regs. They gave me bypass POET status because of my college education in electronics. So my questions really are:

1. How long is the actual QL3 and common core? 

2. How often do they run it?

3. How is Borden like? (Airforce side of it)

If someone could answer those q's that would be great. Please email me chicogomez33[AT}gmail.com

Thanks,

EDIT: Changed the email to detract from spammers.


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## kevin91 (12 May 2013)

Could anyone please help me choose one of these 2 trades?

which of these 2 trades is a more hands on job?
is atis tech boring?
is aws tech boring?

i plan to be in the forces for atleast 25 years, but is it easy to get a civvie job after being an aws tech?

Which of these 2 trades would you personally pick and why?

THANK YOU FOR ANYONE THAT CAN HELP ME!
the decision is tough... this is what i plan to do for the rest of my life


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## Occam (12 May 2013)

Have you actually searched the site?  There's lots of information on both trades.  Try reading and then if something isn't answered, then by all means ask a question.


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## kevin91 (12 May 2013)

honestly just wanted to hear other peoples opinions on both trades to help me choose 1


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## Loachman (12 May 2013)

One man's rewarding and exciting occupation is another man's this-sucks-yak-balls occupation.

We do not know you or what you like or do not like.


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## Teager (12 May 2013)

kevin91 said:
			
		

> honestly just wanted to hear other peoples opinions on both trades to help me choose 1



Currently whats YOUR opinion of both trades? If you answer that then you have answered your own question.


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## TCM621 (28 May 2013)

1. 170 trg days
2. about every month
3. Pretty good. CFSATe has good staff and instructors.


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## Fiver (2 Jun 2013)

Anyone knows what's up with the new QL3?

Last I hear every courses up to January have been canceled until the new course is ready, and then they won't start translating it in French until the pilot group is a success. Am I looking at more than 2 years of PAT?


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## TCM621 (3 Jun 2013)

Fiver said:
			
		

> Anyone knows what's up with the new QL3?
> 
> Last I hear every courses up to January have been canceled until the new course is ready, and then they won't start translating it in French until the pilot group is a success. Am I looking at more than 2 years of PAT?



I haven't heard anything but they have cancelled all the courses. I got some buddies on the current course, I'll ask around.


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## TCM621 (11 Jun 2013)

As far as I have been able to figure out, all course up to Feb 14th have been cancelled as they redesign the course. However, any new AVS students will have a 7 month POET in kingston (may be 9 now) and a month on Common Core, so you won't be sitting around doing nothing the whole time.


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## Fiver (12 Jun 2013)

POET is 132 or so training days, about 8 months~ But yeah, there's a highly tentative date for June 2014 for the start of the next franco QL3. Thanks all the same!


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## AirDet (17 Jul 2013)

Once you've completed the common core you can ask to be sent to a flying unit while you wait for your TQ3... sorry, QL3. You may be just pumping gas or walking wings but at least you'll be getting experience.

Welcome to the profession.


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## Nedarb345 (10 Aug 2013)

Hi,

   I'm thinking of putting a CT to AWS Tech and was curious if there were any post-secondary courses, etc that are relevant to this trade as I know it's a bit tougher to get in the RCAF.

Thanks,


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## welfarewarrior (12 Sep 2013)

Hey man;

I didnt do the the air weapons course but i did the avn course im now a awst i switched and from chatting with the guys who did it, all you need to attend is a pencil.

The minimum required education to apply for this position is the completion of the provincial requirements for Grade 10 or Secondaire IV in Canada. Foreign education may be accepted.
( Thats straight off the recruiment website )


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## J.Harris (14 Oct 2013)

Hello, I have recently applied for AWS Tech. In the video it states that once training is completed you will be posted to CFB Cold Lake, CFB Bagotville, or 'any other base that has aircrafts with weapons'....my question is, what other bases have aircraft's that carry weapons? In a perfect world I would like to be posted to CFB Trenton, but as far as I know they are no combat aircrafts there. Thanks for any info


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## TCM621 (16 Oct 2013)

The three "training" bases are cold lake, bagotville and Greewood, NS. You could also concievably be posted to Comox, BC. For fully qualified TECHs, there are positions at the tac helicopter squadrons, and maritime helicopter squadrons. This covers just about every base in canada. Trenton is a posting because as a AWS you load all the chaff and flares, which Hercs have. If it involves aircraft and weapons, or explosives, or anything like that an AWS will be in charge of it.


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## J.Harris (16 Oct 2013)

Excellent! That is good news. Thanks for the info!


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## J.Harris (17 Nov 2013)

Hello, I've applied for AWS Technician. I am wondering if I will be able to participate in humanitarian missions (such as the one happening in Philippines) in this profession? A big part of why I am drawn to the military is to be able to help people in need (I currently do volunteer SAR). So would AWS techs have the opportunity to provide assistance or are these jobs generally left to soldiers, med techs, SAR techs etc?? Only reason I ask is because in the recruitment video for WENG Techs the one guy states he provided aid in Haiti after the earthquakes. So I am wondering/hoping that anyone in the CF can be picked to help. Thanks for any information!


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## PuckChaser (17 Nov 2013)

If we're moving aircraft around, or utilizing it, you can bet they'll need techs to keep things going. You may not be hands-on in the effort, but providing those aircraft for the crews to work in is aid in itself.


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## J.Harris (18 Nov 2013)

Thank you for responding!


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## Eye In The Sky (19 Nov 2013)

AWS folks also do some EOD type work; who knows where/when those skills could be called upon in a natural disaster.


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## J.Harris (20 Nov 2013)

Good point! Never thought of that. Thanks


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## Dannyboyeast (31 Dec 2013)

Hi,

New to the forum and looking for some info for my OT.
Currently DP2 (QL5) Qualified weapons tech (Land)
Really hoping to get some info from the horses mouth on this one.

Just have a few general questions regarding the trade 

-I've seen alot of duties on the recruitment site that seem like ramp work (i.e de-icing,towing,marshalling,refueling, etc.) . Just wondering if this is in a typical work day or if they just throw it in there because it's potentially a duty?

-What percentage would you say the trade spends in a workshop environment?( i.e benchwork , disassembly,troubleshooting)

-Is Cold lake as bad as it seems? i have 2 kids under 2 and i'm pretty strapped for cash now , even being on the east coast.

-What would be the best base to begin OJT after my QL3? I'm interested in jets and choppers, but prefer the jets

Any help would be great , as well as some follow ups as i continue to learn more about the trade.

P.S my BPSO meeting is scheduled after the christmas holiday

Cheers,


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## cp140tech (31 Dec 2013)

Crap, just realized you had asked about AWS, I read AVS and wrote a long irrelevant post which I have just chopped.

I've been on the Sea King fleet since they stood AWS up again and we really haven't seen much of them yet.  Sorry for the wasted post.  I really can't offer much of value for life in that trade.

Feel free to PM me about general air force life, hopefully I can be of help.


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## Quirky (9 Jan 2014)

Dannyboyeast said:
			
		

> -I've seen alot of duties on the recruitment site that seem like ramp work (i.e de-icing,towing,marshalling,refueling, etc.) . Just wondering if this is in a typical work day or if they just throw it in there because it's potentially a duty?



AWSTs don't generally do any servicing type work (checks, towing, marshalling or refuelling). They are kept busy in their own trade though.



> -What percentage would you say the trade spends in a workshop environment?( i.e benchwork , disassembly,troubleshooting)



If you are posted into a second line workshop, that'll be the majority of your job. In the squadrons they aren't qualified to fix the component itself, only to replace it.



> -Is Cold lake as bad as it seems? i have 2 kids under 2 and i'm pretty strapped for cash now , even being on the east coast.



Cold Lake is very expensive to live in, more so if you have a young family. Cost of living is very high here, from housing whether on or off base, to daycare etc, etc. Your spouse would most likely have to get a job, if not a second one for yourself. (I'm only guessing here but that seems to be common for young families)



> -What would be the best base to begin OJT after my QL3? I'm interested in jets and choppers, but prefer the jets



Cold Lake or Bagotville for jets.


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## Dannyboyeast (13 Jan 2014)

Excellent, thanks alot for the reply Quirky
I was hoping there was a more positive answer for the Cold Lake issue......unfortunately i doesn't sound very good for my situation, but i'll cross that bridge when i get there.

Just another quick question. 

What format is the QL5 in? i.e in house POs or getting sent to Borden again for a time?
If it's in borden how long is it?

Thanks again.


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## AirDet (5 Feb 2014)

I've done 2 of these missions as AWS/AVN. So, yes. 

It's more dependent on your type of unit. For example, TacHel will most likely be in the thick of things where-as Auroras will be unlikely to deploy on such missions.


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## dh101 (6 Feb 2014)

As an AWS Tech Junior it's usually either Comox BC, Coldlake AB, Baggotville QC, or Greenwood NS, but I have seen postings for AWS Tech Junior spots at trention and some other bases, not nearly as many as the first 4 tho.

The OP probably doesn't have access to the DWAN yet but if your about to OT/CT and do have DWAN access, hop on EMMA and there is a link to search for posting locations, looking for the AWS Tech J postings, the J means junior and indicates that its usually for freshly trained techs.


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## AirDet (8 Feb 2014)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> The three "training" bases are cold lake, bagotville and Greewood, NS. You could also concievably be posted to Comox, BC. For fully qualified TECHs, there are positions at the tac helicopter squadrons, and maritime helicopter squadrons. This covers just about every base in canada. Trenton is a posting because as a AWS you load all the chaff and flares, which Hercs have. If it involves aircraft and weapons, or explosives, or anything like that an AWS will be in charge of it.



I hate to burst your bubble, but when I was in Trenton there were very few AWS and most of them were EOD positions. The AWS also build up the chaff/flare buckets but the units install. It's preferred that new AWS start at a fighter base as they are by far the largest users of munitions.

Welcome to the trade.


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## TCM621 (9 Feb 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> I hate to burst your bubble, but when I was in Trenton there were very few AWS and most of them were EOD positions. The AWS also build up the chaff/flare buckets but the units install. It's preferred that new AWS start at a fighter base as they are by far the largest users of munitions.
> 
> Welcome to the trade.



There are very few AWS anywhere because there aren't that many of us. Cold lake and bagotville are taking most of them right now. In Comox there is exactly one AWS tech posted to each shift and both of us are apprentices. There are positions in Trenton but they are being held by AVN types right now. That will change.


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## AirDet (10 Feb 2014)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> There are positions in Trenton but they are being held by AVN types right now. That will change.


Less than half of the Trenton positions are AVN now. TCM is right that we are a small trade but we're growing steadily.


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## TCM621 (21 Mar 2014)

Dannyboyeast said:
			
		

> Excellent, thanks alot for the reply Quirky
> I was hoping there was a more positive answer for the Cold Lake issue......unfortunately i doesn't sound very good for my situation, but i'll cross that bridge when i get there.
> 
> Just another quick question.
> ...



If you are posted to an aurora sqn you will be doing servicing. I am doing it now. Your QL5 will be in the form of a OSS(or "type") course and where it is will depend on the aircraft you work on. Auroras are in greenwood NS and CF18 are in Bagotville (IIRC). I would assume that Hercs would be trenton and Sea kings would be Shearwater, although they are not posting new AWSTs into those position yet.


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## J.Harris (25 Apr 2014)

I didn't realize this thread kept going! Thanks for all the information fellas! I am very excited. I begin training on June 2nd. I am hoping to get sent to Comox as my training base and the last place I want to go is Cold Lake (looks like there is a whole lot of nothing out there). Then maybe one day I will be able to scoop up one of the scarce positions at CFB Trenton. Thanks again guys I am looking forward to it all


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## J.Harris (25 Apr 2014)

AirDet said:
			
		

> I've done 2 of these missions as AWS/AVN. So, yes.
> 
> It's more dependent on your type of unit. For example, TacHel will most likely be in the thick of things where-as Auroras will be unlikely to deploy on such missions.



Okay that makes sense! Thanks!


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## J.Harris (30 Apr 2014)

Would anyone care to provide me with some details on the training that takes place in Borden? Is it Monday-Friday with weekends/holidays off just like any other school? What are the living quarters like? Are there written and practical tests every week? Work load? Things to do in and around Borden (outdoor activities) ? Thanks in advance for your time and information!


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## J.Harris (25 May 2014)

I was recently talking to a CF member who is based in Petawawa and he spoke about the Chinook helicopters they have there. I asked if they were equipped with flares but he was not sure. So I am wondering if they are in fact equipped with flares and if there is chance for me to be posted there. I'm not too worried about where I will be going, but if Petawawa is an option that will be my first pick when they ask (and I understand my preference means little to nothing).

Also, if anyone can tell me what life will be like during my training in Borden that'd be fantastic. Thanks in advance.


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## TCM621 (25 May 2014)

As it stands right now, cold lake. Bagotville, greenwood or comox are your posting options. Trenton will open up eventually. I haven't heard anything about the Chinooks yet.

Borden is bearable. Great course if you go to work on Cf18s but other platforms, less so.


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## J.Harris (26 May 2014)

Thanks for the reply! I guess I will be crossing my fingers for Comox. Cheers


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## Good2Golf (26 May 2014)

While not an AWST myself, understanding that the Chinook was designed with a very capable self-protection suite that includes IR flares, chaff and active directed infrared counter-measures, those are self-protection systems that would not necessarily provide the same demand for large groups of AWS techs as clearly the CF-18s would require, and to a lesser degree the Auroras (and Sea Kings / Cyclones).  The Chinook is still in the early stages of implementation and the self-protection systems will be implement in the years to come.  As a first tour, where you will be looking to learn the craft of your trade, including as many of the aspects of armament and weapon systems as possible, you would likely not get as much out of a posting to Chinooks as you would on the line at a fighter squadron.  The AVN techs, FEs and door gunners look after the C6 machine guns, so you would be dealing specifically with the chaff and flares only, no other weapon systems.

 :2c:

Regards
G2G


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## J.Harris (26 May 2014)

Thank you for the detailed response! I guess all I can do is just go with flow. Cheers


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## Ksiiqtaboo (6 Aug 2014)

Does anyone know the upcoming AWS tech course dates?

Thanks in advance


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## aequitas (8 Aug 2014)

If you have DWAN access CFSATE has a good school page accessible thru 16 Wing page under heading schools of 16 wing. You will find everything you need there under Lancaster Sqn tab


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## Ksiiqtaboo (8 Aug 2014)

I don't have access to DWAN but thanks for the info


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## TCM621 (15 Aug 2014)

last I checked they were running about 4 a year. Expect to be at CFSATE for at least a year between  PAT, Common Core, BEET and QL3.


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## Deleted member 31922 (24 Aug 2014)

I am an AWS Technician in training. I arrived in Borden at the end of the first quarter 2014. I've done Common Core and am 1/3 done BEET, My 3s start in in a few months and I should be done by the end of the first quarter of 2015. PAT sucks major ***, I recommend going to the gym two times a day so that you minimize your time dying of boredom.


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## TCM621 (25 Aug 2014)

Volunteer for taskings at every opportunity. Get your 404s. Take an online course. Just don't sit in the canteen and vegetate.


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## Ksiiqtaboo (25 Aug 2014)

I have previous service but I won't be offered a contract until they can put me on a course that's why I'm inquiring. And I have my 404s already but I'm just curious on dates


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## krimynal (28 Aug 2014)

Hello everyone ! 

A friend of mine is looking into joining the army , he went on the forces.ca website and saw the AWS Tech video and basically fell in love with it ! ( gotta admit that video made that job look like a friggin paradise ! ) but he had a lot of questions regarding the job itself ... I was wondering if there was any AWS Tech here that could help him out.  

Right now I'm in the Artillery so I can't really help him .... I don't even know if they have to go trough SQ and stuff like that after BMQ ! So if anyone could let us know what would the correct way to become an AWS is we would greatly appreciate ! 

I did a quick search , but there doesn't seem to have that many out here , and a lot of posts were about people OTing to AWS which is not our case !!

Thanks a lot !


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## Eye In The Sky (28 Aug 2014)

You would have to apply for a CT like everyone else.  AFAIK they don't do SQ.  They are a hard air trade.  I know a few around the hanger and will ask if I think of it.


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## krimynal (29 Aug 2014)

it's not for me , it's for a friend of mine .... 

I'm more then happy doing artillery right now , but he applied for the AWS Tech and was asking me for some info !


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## TCM621 (29 Aug 2014)

Apply as per usual. After BMQ they go to Borden for common core (tools and paperwork stuff), Basic Electronic and Electric training and Ql3. There is also a week long air environmental course which is basic history of the air force stuff.

Its a good trade. I like it.


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## Eye In The Sky (29 Aug 2014)

Don't you Armourers go to Gagetown - CFSME at some point for EOD trg stuff?


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## TCM621 (30 Aug 2014)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> Don't you Armourers go to Gagetown - CFSME at some point for EOD trg stuff?


Eventually we all have to get cmd basic but there is a huge backlog. It won't happen until after ql 5 anyway.


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## Eye In The Sky (30 Aug 2014)

copy


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## krimynal (18 Sep 2014)

Hello everyone.

So like my title says I just want to narrow down the main difference between both of these jobs.  From what I understood these jobs are both aimed towards all the avionics and equipment an helicopter or a plane would need , but one is focused on the plane itself as of the other one is aimed towards the ground installation ?

I just want to make sure that I am not wrong here in assuming this.  

I am asking because I want to choose between one of these 2 for my Transfer application, They are asking me 3 different jobs that I would be interested , since I'm currently a Gunner in the primary reserve , Gunner will be my 1st choice , the 2ND one is Air Weapons Systems Technician , but for my last one I am really torned appart between these 2.  

I am continuing to read here on the forum about both jobs , but I was just wondering if anyone could tell me if the main difference is the one I posted in the beginning , thanks a lot !


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Sep 2014)

krimynal said:
			
		

> From what I understood these jobs are both aimed towards all the avionics and equipment an helicopter or a plane would need , but one is focused on the plane itself as of the other one is aimed towards the ground installation ?



AVS Techs do all the on-aircraft kit.  AVS Tech is an Air Operations trade and is a 'hard air' trade.  As an AVS you would likely belong to an maint org on a Wing doing first or second line maint.

ATIS Techs will (in general terms) do everything that is IT/Comms/Tech related that isn't on the aircraft.  RADAR, FM radio, IT, telephone, navigational aids, etc.  ATIS Tech belongs to the Communications and Electronics branch, they are the AF DEU folks with Jimmy capbadges on their berets and wedges.  If you were posted to a Wing, you would likely work under the WTISS (Wing Telecomm's and Info Systems Sqn).

Both are Specialist trades w/spec pay once you are a Cpl with your QL5, as is AWS Tech (also a hard air trade).

That is a basic run-down.


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## krimynal (18 Sep 2014)

when you say Hard air trade , you mean Hard to get into ?


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## Eye In The Sky (18 Sep 2014)

No.  A "hard" trade means one that only exists in a certain element, belongs to the operational side of an element.

Examples;  Infantry is a hard Army trade, Pilot is a hard AF trade, and NESOP is a hard Sea/Navy trade.

If you were an AVS Tech, you would be in the RCAF Air Operations branch, wear the AF capbadge.  If you were an ATIS Tech, you would be in the AF uniform but not part of the Air Operations branch - you'd be in the C & E Branch and wear Jimmy on your headdress.

Make sense?


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## krimynal (18 Sep 2014)

yes , thanks for the info !


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## krimynal (18 Sep 2014)

as far as Deployments goes , I would assume AWS tech and Avionics techs deploy more than ATIS tech ?


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## Occam (18 Sep 2014)

There are probably roughly similar with regard to opportunities to deploy.


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## krimynal (18 Sep 2014)

alright , since I'm in the artillery right now in the reserve , would it be "wrong" if I didn't choose Artillery as my #1 choice to reg forces ? I know it would probably easier to switch to the same thing , but I gotta say that air-force is basically what I always wanted to chose but there were no air-force near where I live ( the closest was 1h30 drive away )


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## sidemount (18 Sep 2014)

Nothing wrong with it at all.

Research the job you think you would like to do and go for it. If you love the field, reg force arty here in pet spend a ton of time out there. If you want a more technical trade, then avs or atis might better suit you.

Don't feel like you HAVE to stay Artillery when you CT.


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## Deleted member 31922 (19 Sep 2014)

Tcm621 said:
			
		

> Apply as per usual. After BMQ they go to Borden for common core (tools and paperwork stuff), Basic Electronic and Electric training and Ql3. There is also a week long air environmental course which is basic history of the air force stuff.
> 
> Its a good trade. I like it.



From what I've seen here at CFSATE AWSTs have the shortest time on PAT also  (with the exception of a buddy who is ACS and spent 1 week on PAT :O) I will be on PAT for 3 months total out of 1 year of training. 

I love my trade choice


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## krimynal (13 Jan 2015)

found this post , wondering if anyone has new inputs on it ???

I'm also trying to transfer to AVS or AWS , I was wondering what was the life in Borden ?? What are the morning PT ?? Inspection ?? etc. 

I've done my DP1 with artillery this summer , is it close to what I was in ? or is it way different ??? 

Thanks !


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## CCR (13 Jan 2015)

As a recent graduate of CFSATE, you will have Tuesday morning inspections. Occasionally in DEU's. Room inspections are usually a walk through I think (I lived out). PT was twice a week, with either PSP or course staff.


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## krimynal (13 Jan 2015)

you can live off base ????? 

I doubt they are going to let me have that but ....


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## CCR (13 Jan 2015)

I managed to get a PMQ while there were still quite a few. Not sure if their policy has changed at all, but you would submit a memo for de-linking rations and living out. If/when you get to CFSATE, you will find out what the new policies are. When I first got there, the day I cleared in I submitted my memo. A month or so later it came back approved. 

Feel free to PM me if you have any other Borden/CFSATE related questions.


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Jan 2015)

Are you single or did you have dependants with you?


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## krimynal (14 Jan 2015)

well I'm common law right now.  Girlfriend and I signed the papers back at my local unit last year about that


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Jan 2015)

For clarity;  you had common law status when you were allowed to move into a PMQ and your gf lived there with you?


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## CCR (14 Jan 2015)

Eye in the sky, if you meant me, I at the time had single status when I put the memo in. Also at the time, the shacks were over flowing and the PMQ's vacant.


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Jan 2015)

Rog tks


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## krimynal (14 Jan 2015)

if I have common law status prior to move to Borden , but my wife is still in Trois-Rivieres , Quebec ...( I would assume they are not gonna move her for the duration of my class ) , will I be able to apply for 1 ( if the pmqs are still empty )


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## TCM621 (14 Jan 2015)

krimynal said:
			
		

> if I have common law status prior to move to Borden , but my wife is still in Trois-Rivieres , Quebec ...( I would assume they are not gonna move her for the duration of my class ) , will I be able to apply for 1 ( if the pmqs are still empty )


I would get them to move her out there. You are looking at about 2 years. It will involve some paperwork involving change of posting status but it very doable.


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## krimynal (14 Jan 2015)

so I could ask to file in a memo for her to move there with me , and we could get a PMQ and I could still attend regular classes ?


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Jan 2015)

You ask questions that have very obvious answers.   If someone else was able to submit the request you can too.  No guarantees.


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## krimynal (14 Jan 2015)

yeah the reason why I ask is because I keep hearing people saying that they did it and it was very easy and doable , then when I come up with the same info with my CoC , they tell me that it's impossible , that if I'm on a course there is "NO WAY" my girlfriend could follow me , and that it's basically a "glitch" in the system and no one should of been allowed this in the first place ..... 

I just want to be sure , because if people tell me it's doable, then it's a whole different ball game.  I know there is no certainty that I will get such a request approved , but if at least I know that there is a chance , well let's just say it will change a lot of my planning , since I won't have to worry about a long distance relationship / won't have to worry on how to drive down there every month / won't have to worry about paying for a 2ND apartment where I won't live anymore / etc.


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## Eye In The Sky (14 Jan 2015)

Your CofC meaning your PRes arty unit?  They know nothing about how the RCAF training establishments run their business.


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## krimynal (14 Jan 2015)

Yes , by CofC I'm talking about my PRes arty unit.  I try to ask them questions about my tranfer , about the requirements , etc. etc. and no one as any idea whatsoever .... so yeah I'm kind of lost in all this , that's why I might sound really dumb on here , but it's the only place where I can get some kind of straight answer , since my unit is basically clueless to anything that isn't arty .....


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## krimynal (20 Jan 2015)

Hey guys was wondering , for a Junior NCM in AWS I realize the 4 posting options ( Comox / Greenwood / Cold Lake and Bagotville ).

But once you are not seen as a junior technician , will there be some ways to get specialized on different type or aircraft , let's say one would look to join the 427 or 430Th sqn for the griffon.  Is this even a possibility for this trade or not at all ???

last weekend a MWO I had on my drivers class told me there were some there , when he was a AWS Tech but that was something like 20 years ago , and since the trade kind of died during a certain time and came back , is it still true ??


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## TCM621 (20 Jan 2015)

J. Harris, the course is basically 730 to 1530 Monday to Friday.  Living quarters are OK and they are pretty relaxed as to how you set up your room. Tests aren't every week more like every 2 or 3 weeks. Also cold Lake is still the biggest place to get posted.


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## TCM621 (20 Jan 2015)

Krrimynal, the trade is still sorting itself out but every platform we have save sar platforms will have AWS techs working on them. Even sar postings may end up having a couple to deal with flares and the like.


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## drewm4x4 (2 Feb 2015)

I know it has been a couple weeks, but I just wanted to confirm what others have said.  I am a current avs ql3 student and I live in a PMQ with my wife and children.  On my course of 11 people not a single person lives in shacks.  If you have common law status with your g/f then they will move her here too if that is what you want.  You can expect to be here a bare minimum of 2 years, but expect it to be longer.  I'm one of the few lucky ones that was course loaded pretty much back to back so I have virtually no pat time.  Now saying that I know people that have been sitting on pat for almost 6 months before their ql3 starts.  Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.


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## hotbarrelunload (20 Mar 2015)

I hate to burst bubbles but ACS is taking over chaff and flares as well as the SAR packages.
I'm in Trenton right now and posted to 424.
If your AWS chances are your going to fighters.
That being said, my buddies that have been posted to CL seem to love it.
The high price of housing is a bit of a sting, but the cost of everything else more than makes up for it.
Also, there are more than a few guys here trying to get posted to CL!!!


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## TCM621 (12 Apr 2015)

hotbarrelunload said:
			
		

> I hate to burst bubbles but ACS is taking over chaff and flares as well as the SAR packages.
> I'm in Trenton right now and posted to 424.
> If your AWS chances are your going to fighters.
> That being said, my buddies that have been posted to CL seem to love it.
> ...



Source? Because that is not what I am hearing.


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## mrmeeseeks (30 May 2015)

I heard that the majority of door gunners for choppers are AWS techs is this true or did i hear incorrectly?


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## RemusterKing (30 May 2015)

Not sure what the Sea King fleet is doing but not one single AWS Tech is employed as a door gunner with land based choppers. I tried to pursue this for one of my AWS Techs last spring and was told by the Trade Adviser they would not entertain the idea as it was not part of the AWS trade specs as well as a waste of a tech with spec pay. In the end it makes sense.


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## TCM621 (30 May 2015)

Sea kings use Aesops if I am not mistaken. Or it is the FE. I can never remember which.  AWS techs are ground support crew not flight crew.


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## Baz (30 May 2015)

It is the AESOP... there in no FE on Sea Kings (anymore, there used to be 2 ar 406 until the early '90s, useful for non-tactical trips ie pilot traing and cross countries,  but a bit of a PITA otherwise).


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## TCM621 (31 May 2015)

Baz said:
			
		

> It is the AESOP... there in no FE on Sea Kings (anymore, there used to be 2 ar 406 until the early '90s, useful for non-tactical trips ie pilot traing and cross countries,  but a bit of a PITA otherwise).


Thanks.  I always forget which one flies on the sea King.


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## Loachman (31 May 2015)

The FE mans the gun on the right side of a Griffon and a Cbt Arms guy mans the gun on the left side. Many of the latter were Reservists during Op Athena. It was quite a novelty to see the variety of headgear worn with flying suits.


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## Eye In The Sky (1 Jun 2015)

Baz said:
			
		

> It is the AESOP... there in no FE on Sea Kings (anymore, there used to be 2 ar 406 until the early '90s, useful for non-tactical trips ie pilot traing and cross countries,  but a bit of a PITA otherwise).



I believe the TACCO is qual'd on the wpn as well, no?


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## Deleted member 31922 (18 Jun 2015)

> Quote from: hotbarrelunload on March 20, 2015, 10:32:30
> I hate to burst bubbles but ACS is taking over chaff and flares as well as the SAR packages.
> I'm in Trenton right now and posted to 424.
> If your AWS chances are your going to fighters.
> ...



I can confirm this. ACS is slated to take over chaff/flare and carts as well as SAR. If you're AWS expect to go to fighterworld. You are a weapons tech, and you will want to gain experience in fighterworld ops as they are the largest users of munitions in the RCAF. 12/13 of our QL3 went to either Bagotville or Cold Lake. One went to Greenwood due to a family health situation. I'm currently posted to 
CFB 'Cool Pool' Cold Lake. I'm in barracks and its pretty decent, rooms are big and fully furnished. You have several barrack options, they are available to see on the DWAN 4 Wing website under the accomodations section. You can opt to go Full/Partial/Off rations. (Partial rations are 41 meals/month) I like the mess food. WAY better quality than Borden, and they switch up the menu so it's never boring. Rent is high, but the PMQ's did get some renovations to update them. Check CFHA for price/pics. Overall I like it here, it is a close community, people help each other out, my car insurance is cheap, no tax on groceries, lots of hunting, fishing, ATVing, ETC. I'm from BC so it's an 1 1/2 hour plane ride home to Vancouver from Edmonton (3 hour drive) 

*PS* How is Trenton treating ya Boomer? Hope you are doing great man. Miss ya and your funny stories buddy!


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## SeaKingTacco (22 Sep 2015)

Yes, MH TACCOs are generally door gun qualifed. It has less to do with a tactical need to operate the gun then it does with being able to act as a Firing Point Safety Officer in peacetime shoots and be able to unload/clear gun in case the AESOp is wounded or killed.


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## Zombie (23 Dec 2015)

Why is ATIS part of C&E and what difference does an ATIS Tech experience versus a hard air trade (AVS), if any?


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## PuckChaser (23 Dec 2015)

Because way back in the 1960s, someone decided to unify all the services to save money. Anything to do with communications equipment (except for NavComms) was rolled into the C&E Branch. ATIS guys are typically posted to air bases as thats where all the radar is to fix, but can find themselves in Army units like CFJSR, or doing base-side helpdesk support for IS/IT networks.


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## mrjasonc (10 Feb 2017)

Any AWS Techs around that OT'd from the Combat Engineers? Have a couple questions if I can find someone that can answer. TIA

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


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## TCM621 (10 Feb 2017)

mrjasonc said:
			
		

> Any AWS Techs around that OT'd from the Combat Engineers? Have a couple questions if I can find someone that can answer. TIA
> 
> Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


I OT'd from the army but not the engineers. Send me a pm if you want and I will try to answer your questions. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Ex00324 (11 Jan 2018)

Good day, 

I'm currently applying for AWS, and I have a few specific questions. I've read the other AWS topic but they are either old, or not specific enough.

Would it be possible for someone to find out when the next QL3 would be for FY 18/19. I wont have to go to St-Jean, due to my prior service and was told that I would get enrolled a few weeks before the course start. I guess they might have me do the common core, beet and element specific course before my QL3...possible? or I'm totally wrong?

I cannot really find any info about what the common core and beet is. Would it be possible for someone with DWAN access to get me a copy of the QSP for each course? (QL3,beet,common core)
I might be wrong but I'm assuming they are unclass.

I'm waiting for my medical file to comeback so I still have a little bit of time ahead of me but I would prefer to be proactive rather than reactive once on course if I need to brush up on specific subjects. 

Thank you very much


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