# Why is there a leaf above a Corporal‘s two stripes?



## Veteran`s son (20 Feb 2003)

Why is there a leaf shown above a Corporal‘s two stripes?

Does this mean that the Corporal is actually a higher rank?

Thank you!

Sincerely,
Mike


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## Lawrence (20 Feb 2003)

That would be the rank of Master Corporal.  Yes I know its not a "rank" its an appointment.


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## 2Lt_Martin (20 Feb 2003)

oooh oooh unless they are a Mbdr and believe me  I made the mistake of calling a MBdr a Mcpl on course once, I was quickly corrected.

Funny though you don‘t see MBdr listed in the pay scales anywhere (...ducking)


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## Gryphon (20 Feb 2003)

I did the same thing. I‘m a Sig Op, and my BRT was in Shilo, which has Arty. There was a Mbdr coming, and they never taught us that there was a difference between Mbdr, and Mcpl, so I called the Mbdr a Mcpl. He got so peeved at me, it wasn‘t funnyy


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## Nfld Sapper (20 Feb 2003)

Mbdr is not listed because it is a trade specific name i.e. Mbdr= Mcpl.

Same is true of:
Sapper/Gunner(?)/Trooper(?)/Craftsmen= Pte (T)
Bdr= Cpl.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Feb 2003)

Calling ourselves gnr‘s and bdr‘s keeps us different than all the lower-class trades. D‘oh.


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## Jarnhamar (21 Feb 2003)

I had an artillery gunner try to make fun of me at the bar this week-end because i wasn‘t a real soldier, i was just a reservest. 
He even had a tour in bosnia where he drove around a $hit sucker truck for 6 months.I‘ll take lower class infantry any day    :blotto:


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## Veteran`s son (21 Feb 2003)

When my father retired from the Canadian Armed Forces in 1971, his rank was given as Corporal but he did have a leaf above his Corporal‘s stripes.

So, the current rank of Corporal would have only the stripes?

Also, was/is there a rank with a crown above the Corporal‘s stripes?


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## RCA (21 Feb 2003)

That was probably the old style Cpl stripes where the maple leaf was actual a part of the top hook as opposed to being above it.  MCpl were just being introduced around this time.

As for the crown. Before unification the was acrown was above the Sgts hooks that denoted Staff Sargent, equivalant to Warrent Officer today.


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## RCA (21 Feb 2003)

That just goes to prove that tyhe Atry does have "some"ingers" amounst our midst. However, Bruce is just convaying the proper sentiment.

"Gunners add class to otherwise would be termed an unruly brawl"


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## RCA (21 Feb 2003)

read "wingers"


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## Illucigen (23 Feb 2003)

Everybody always finds a way to say they are better than everyone else. Its almost funny actually.

There are differences between mean average experience between reserve and reg force, and thus many regs feel more important than reservists. But in their defence, they have made the military their entire life, rather than just a part time job, which is in itself quite a sacrifice. 

I have met many reservists, however, who definitely know their job. I have also heard many stories of those who have no idea..............

Its all perception...


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## Korus (23 Feb 2003)

You‘ll find good soldiers and bad soldiers in both the res and reg...


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## portcullisguy (23 Feb 2003)

My understanding is that the "old" system included the rank of "Lance Corporal".

So the progression would have been:

Private
Lance Corporal 
Corporal
Sergeant
(etc.)

The Brits still use this system today, and our system was based on theirs for a long time.

Double check those stripes though, because I think the old rank of corporal had a crown, not a maple leaf.  I could be wrong, though.


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## Soldier of Fortune (23 Feb 2003)

I also heard that MCpl used to be an appointment not a rank, whats the story on this?


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## MPSHIELD (25 Feb 2003)

Unless they have changed something really really recently it is still an appointment. Well at least in the reserves it still is. I could only find the reserve MCPL information in the QR&O‘s. With more time I‘m sure it can be found about the REG force. It is "paid" however as a rank. 

  http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-05_e.asp  

para 3 and para 34


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## Michael Dorosh (25 Feb 2003)

Some answers:

There was no such rank as "Lance Corporal"; this was an appointment awarded to soldiers holding the rank of Private.

At the time of unification, the Lance Corporal appointment, as well as the Lance Sergeant appointment, were abolished (a Lance Sergeant was a corporal who wore three chevrons).  Staff sergeants were replaced by the new grade of Warrant Officer, with MWO and CWO added.  The old system had only two grades of warrant officer - WO II and WO I.   (In WW II, there was a third grade, called WO III who usually acted as Platoon Sergeant Major - this rank existed only briefly in 1939-40 but remained on the books throughout the war, and was abolished either during the war or not long after).

The new CF rank structure included a corporal and the appointment of Master Corporal.  There was also some weird kind of "career corporal" grade.

The initial insignia included a leaf on top of the chevrons for trained privates and corporals and over the chevrons for master corporals.

Some feel that the master corporal appointment completely destroyed the junior leadership ranks; a Corporal in the old army was a command position equal to a sergeant in the US forces.  Today, it is a gimme rank - and privates, trained privates, and corporals are all roughly equal to each other in terms of responsibilities - much like the German Army of WWII, where Schutzen, Gefreiten, and Ober/Stabsgefreiten were all glorified privates.

The crown and chevron insignia appears to have been used by corporals - not just staff sergeants - perhaps as an interim until the new insignia could be issued?

There is some info on rank insignia at www.canadiansoldiers.com and a forum you can talk to some insignia experts at - also one of the regulars is a Canadian Military Engineer and can probably answer many of the questions you have about your dad.


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## McInnes (10 May 2003)

what is Bdr? like the full name?


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## Deleted member 585 (10 May 2003)

McInnes:

Bdr = Bombardier, so, an artillery Master Corporal (MCpl) is known as Master Bombardier (MBdr).

Incidentally, a Private in the communications branch -- specifically a Radio Operator (Rad-Op) -- was/is known as a Signaller (Sig).

Seemingly exclusive to Reserve service (at least late 1980s - early 1990s) ... concerning inter-trade rivalry within Signals, the linemen and the radops had some choice (but relatively harmless) nicknames for one another -- for instance we used an acronym, P.A.F.R.O.Q, pronounced _pafrok_.  I‘ll not expand it here, as it may offend some eyes, but I assure you no offence was ever intended.      In mixed company, the guys were most often referred-to as "pimply-bums".  Anyhow, it was a healthy rivalry and the occasionally bruised ego was usually healed by beer-fuelled mayhem.


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## nbk (10 May 2003)

This is a pretty dumb question but is Bombardier pronounced "bom-bar-dee-eh" with a french accent like the company that makes snowmobiles, or is it "bomb-ba-deer"? Because I have heard it both ways.


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## Deleted member 585 (10 May 2003)

In the CF, it‘s most commonly (well, exclusively) pronounced "bomb-ba-deer".  Funny how English corruption of French language persists in this age of "bilingualism".


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## Jarnhamar (10 May 2003)

‘le HOTDOG‘
‘un HAMBURGER‘
Thieves!

I think by the time Veteran‘s son takes his basic training he‘s going to know more about the military than the instructors heh


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## Michael Dorosh (10 May 2003)

Yeah, Veteran‘s Son and all the guys with two years‘ experience in the Air Cadets ought to be able to run the course themselves.


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## Veteran`s son (10 May 2003)

Thanks for all of the replies to my questions as they are appreciated!


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## Sharpey (12 May 2003)

Just like Trooper and Sapper are Privates in the Armoured Corps and Engineers respectivly.

And from my understanding the Canadian‘s adopted the leaf above certain ranks (MCpl / Sgt) to distinguish ourselves from the British.


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