# Signals Officer



## Noid

Hi folks,

     Having recently started considering joining the CF, this board has been a Godsend in getting a feel for what‘s what; thanks to everyone for many enlightening comments. I‘m starting to narrow down my list of MOCs, and was hoping to find out more about the life of a Signals Officer in the Reg forces. In particular:

- What‘s a typical day when you‘re in garrison and not deployed?

- As I understand it, SOs are often attached to combat and other units; this being the case, is the SO officially part of (for example) an infantry unit, or part of a communications unit?

- If not attached to another unit, would you typically end up in Kingston? Or at a large HQ like Edmonton? Or?

- Further to the above: if you were attached to an infantry unit, would you be expected/able to engage in infantry training --- for example, could you get into a recce or para course?

- How much can you influence whether you have an HQ office-style job vs. spending a lot of time deployed or overseas?

Thanks in advance for any insights shared!


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## mdh

This was posted in CSS but it's probably more appropriate here...

Would anyone know if they would consider other degrees for Reserve Field Sig. Officer rather than technical ones like computer science and engineering? Someone told me they will consider you for the Communications Reserve Regiments with a non-technical degree (i.e. arts) on a case-by-case basis. Thanks in advance.


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## rdschultz

From CFAO 49-10  ( http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-10_e.asp ):



> 14        Engineering (Military,        Except as provided in the Note to this serial:
> Land Electrical and           a. hold a suitable bachelor's degree (see Annex A to
> Mechanical                       CFAO 9-12 for guidance); or
> Communications/               b. be an engineering technologist who holds a suitable
> Electronics; Maritime;           technology diploma or possesses certification by a
> Aerospace)                       professional association as a technologist in a
> suitable field in accordance with CFAO 6-1, Annex A,
> Appendix 1; or
> c. for the Maritime Engineering (MARE) MOC only,
> hold a Ministry of Transport (Canada) or equivalent
> extra first or first class engineering certificate,
> with a satisfactory record of service; or
> d. have successfully completed not less than two years
> of a university course leading to a suitable degree
> in accordance with subparagraph a. If the member
> fails to obtain a degree in the two academic terms
> following enrollment, retention is subject to NDHQ
> approval.
> 
> Note--If the basic enrollment standards are met,
> the commander of the command may waive the
> provisions of this serial when necessary to meet
> emergency manning requirements.



That note at the end would seem to indicate that it is possible, but the emergency manning requirements would have to get looked into further.  I'd guess that you would have to talk to the unit you wish to join to find out more.

Also, subparagraph a references CFAO 9-12, which contains this image:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/images/CFAO0036.GIF

If you can make it out, it lists all arts degrees for the CELE MOC (which is now Signals Officer) as Code 4, which is "NOT SUBSIDIZED --  This code is not acceptable for CF subsidization for the particular MOC".  CFAO 9-12 deals with ROTP candidates, so I'm not sure how that applies.  But they say they included that reference as a guide, which as a guess would mean that its generally regarded as not suitable (which you probably already knew).  

Basically, this is all a long winded way to say check with the regiment you're interested in.  They're the ones who will be able to answer your questions and let you know if you're ok.  It doesn't help you much to find out that some dude in say, Vancouver got in with an Arts degree, and you're applying for a regiment in Ontario somewhere.  

Good luck though.  You'll never know if you don't go check it out.  If you possess strong skills in the computers/electronics (which I suspect, given your interest in the trade), you could probably present a pretty compelling case.


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## mdh

Thanks for the info Hoser!


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## Island Ryhno

Hey folks, so I'm in the process of applying as a reserves sigs officer here at 728. The recruiter was absolutely fantastic btw, why can't everyone be as helpfull as she was? Anyhow, I was wondering about the transferrability of reserve sigs officer to the reg force, I believe that it's changed somewhat now and can't just be done as a CT! Also any sigs officers that would like to give me a rundown of the life, it would be appreciated, thanks.


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## Island Ryhno

bump, Anyone?


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## sigpig

I knew some great officers from 728 back when I was in 723 and then in 746 but that was a long time ago.

When do you plan on transferring? What courses will you be able to get in that time? What rank do you hope to attain? What education level do you have/are pursuing? That might be the critical factor in any transfer attempt to the reg force.

What do mean by 'a CT?'

If no one else offers any ideas I'll try to help where I can but note that my knowledge is somewhat dated  

Good luck in your pursuits..


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## Island Ryhno

Hey Sigpig, thanks for the reply. I am currently doing a Programmer/Analyst course (3yrs) but am switching to Electronics Eng Tech (3yrs) then 1yr BTech at MUN. So as I understand, I will start as an Ocdt and through course progression be commisioned as a 2lt by the end of my fourth year, at which point I plan on transferring into the regular force as an officer. The confusion comes from a couple of statements, by A) the recruit and B) the dreaded hearsay. The recruiter said that my becoming an officer at the reserve level is not an issue doing a 3yr course (either Programmer or Electronice Eng) however, it may be a problem when I try to transfer to the reg force as it may not qualify me as a Sigs Officer. Secondly, I'm sure that I read on here somewhere that reserve officers can no longer just straight transfer into regs anymore as some of the training is not adequate, but I can't find the thread. So any help in those areas would be appreciated. Also CT=Component Transfer! 

Cheers


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## Radop

CT=Component Transfer

I believe there is no bigger problem transferring to regs as there is for an NCO.  You could check with a recruiter to find out exactly what you have to do.  You may even be able to get them to pay for part of your university.


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## Island Ryhno

The tuition reimbursment from reg forces you mean? The reserves will give me a tuition voucher for up to $2000 per year, I'm not sure that I will be able to switch to regs and keep my commision before my degree is done. The recruiter at the unit doesn't know how it will work If I try to transfer to the regs. I'm trying to get some answers from the CFRC but I'm on wait for them, guy at the desk didn't know, said he would get back to me.


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## Neepawa

As I see it (as a Reg F Signals officer), there are a couple of concerns. The first is education; you definitely want to have an undergraduate degree before joining the Reg F (especially SIGS) as an officer. In terms of advancement, you will be much better off.

The second concern is training. Res F officer training is completely different from that of the Reg F, due mainly to time and money constraints. Don't expect to be granted an equivalency for any Res F course you have completed.

Hopefully that helps a bit. Let me know if you have any more questions.


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## san

I am considering a transfer to the Comm Reserve and am looking for some explanation on the course requirements for a Sig O.  I am currently with the Army Reserve and am familiar with BOTP and CAP(R).  Would these be the same for the Comm Reserve and if so, what comes next?  There is some mention of RBSOC Block A-G, but I'm not sure what each block might involve?  What would those blocks qualify me for and what might come next as part of a career progression path.

I appreciate any information you might have.

Thanks,

SAN


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## Dave999

Hi there. I have recently been informed that I will be offered a position in the Army as a Signals Officer. My first choice was CELE but I'm told at the recruitment office that they are the same thing, and I've noted that when I view the online recruitment video for Signals Officer it is actually showing CELE. I need to make a decision about this career choice very soon as Basic Training starts September 12th. I have a lot of questions which I suppose are very basic but the recruitment officer at my branch is away for a couple of weeks on vacation. There seem to be lots of really good reasons to join up, good pay, a job you can count on, great benefits, and I think I would be very proud to be part of the Armed Forces. With that said, (I haven't seen the offer yet but I'm pretty sure) the Army wants a 9 year commitment from me. So here's the thing, I don't really know anything more about being a Signals Officer than what I've read online (sort of vague), my biggest concern is joining up and then finding out that I don't like what I'm doing and can't get out. That's the way it works right? Once you're in you can't get out until you contract is up? (How is that anyway?) It would be really great if I could hear from someone out there who really knows what a Signals Officer does â â€œ what would I do on an average day, would I be likely to see any action (I have a gut feeling that Signals is more dangerous than CELE), or would I be more likely to be stationed in the middle of nowhere? Would I have any influence over my postings? What would life in the Army be like for me? Am I even asking the right questions??? If anyone out there has anything to say that would be useful in helping me make this MAJOR LIFE DECISION I would really really appreciate your time.

Dave


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## Dave999

Quick update:

I've just received my official offer and Basic Training won't start for me until January 10th, so I guess I have some more time to think on it â â€œ thank goodness! My gut feeling is that the Army would be good for me, I just want to make my decision as informed as possible.

Dave


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## sigpig

Check out this thread

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17932.0.html


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## Neepawa

I would suggest you speak to Lt Briggs at LFCA HQ, as he's the only Reserve Signals officer I know. He completed his training relatively recently, so should have up-to-date info.


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## san

Thanks.  I finally found what I was looking for on the DIN.


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## Dave999

Hello, I have been offered a position in the Army as a Signals Officer. Like many others I am trying to put together a picture of how my career would likely evolve should I accept. I have spent hours reading through army.ca and I have found a post by JcPrime that asks many of the same questions I wonder about. Unfortunately JcPrime's questions did not receive very good answers since many of the responses were from people not even in the forces yet (it eventually got off subject and just turned into a big argument). I'm hoping that by starting this post I can get some solid answers from those of you who have been around enough to know.

(JcPrime's post: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17818.0.html)

I am lucky in that I've had the opportunity to actually speak with an ex Signals Officer, so I have about as good an idea of what the occupation incurs as I can really expect at this point. What I'm interested in finding out now is how I might expect my career to evolve over the years once I become a full fledged Signals Officer and whether or not eventually becoming a Major or Lieutenant Colonial is a reasonable thought. 

Now, I must admit that I am a bit apprehensive to ask about this subject as it does seem to lead to anger. For instance, I have seen the term "careerist" used to describe those who are more concerned with getting promotions then with doing a job properly. I'm not in the forces so I don't know what it's like to be an officer, however I certainly do not believe that I would ignore or walk over others just to somehow make myself look good for a promotion! When I ask what it will take to make it to a higher rank I am asking; what courses should I be aware of? What level of second language proficiency should I have? How important is it to go on tours? Is there any sort of normal time line involved? Is there any big benefit to those who have a Master's degree? Am I asking the right questions?

Let me close by saying that I don't have any ideas about racing to the top ASAP or any of that, I would rather work on being a good officer than explicitly ladder climb. If I decide to accept this offer (and I'm sure I will actually) then it's because I like the trade and I'd be damn proud to serve. I'd really just like to get an idea of what opportunities I can expect because I'm excited and just plain curious. I'm guessing that over a life long career anyone would look for change as the years go by. I hope that makes sense to everyone. I appreciate any useful input, please no nasty comments though.

Sincerely, 

Dave


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## Janie

Dave, I don't have any answers for you, but I do appreciate your questions! I'm also considering becoming a Signals Officer. I have a Master's degree in Computer Science, and would be very interested in hearing, from those with experience, how such a career might unfold.

Janie


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## Dog

You've spoken to your recruiter, you've spoken to an ex Sig Op, and you've been lurking (I assume) on this website enough to have gleaned whatever useful information you can. The CF is in need of signals people, as you can see by going to the DND website... I'm sure you will be well fed judging by many of the officers I see downtown, coming or going from NDHQ. 

  Perhaps I'm overstepping my bounds and assuming too much, but I think it would be safe to assume that an under-strength trade is not going to be under-strength forever... you will be senior to whoever joins after you, and provided you do your job well, you should be able to advance at a pace that is reasonable. The 'Boomers are all going to be retiring over the next couple decades and with that will be an opportunity to move into the positions they vacate, which I imagine will be fairly high-level, senior positions.... they've started to retire already, soon it will turn into an exodus.

From where I stand, your future looks bright......

  That being said, I don't know Jack$#!+ about Signals Officers....


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## IBM

Hi Dave, I'm in the same situation as you. I'm applying to join the reserves as a Signals Officer as well. Not sure if I'll go Regular eventually but an idea of the career path would help me decide. Hope you get some answers soon, and won't mind sharing with me and Janie.  ;D


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## ra2xz

I'm actually interested in hearing about what happened to you two, did you guys decide to go sigs or how did everything unfold?


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## A.Khan

Hey, I've been looking into the forces for a few years now as I am 16 I want to make a decision to pick a lasting career. I have been gathering a lot information on jobs that seem interesting to me; I've posted in these forums a few years back, I've joined cadets, surfed the forces websites, etc. 
I talked to my brother who is an Aerospace Engineer in the Air Force and he is disgusted by the idea of me wanting to join the Army. He has tired to discourage me from joining by telling me all the downs and how crappy the life style is, I'll be stationed far away from family, there are crazy traditions, etc. He did however accept that if I was serious he'd help me, he told me to pick a career that I am interested in, and make sure that the career can carry on into the civilian world in-case the military doesn't work out. 

1. Signals Officer
2. Combat Engineer or Engineering Officer 

These are my top 2/3. I've looked into them into some detail and have a pretty good understanding of what the do and there job description and it seems pretty interesting to me. However I have a few questions and conflicts.

Engineering Officer requires a degree in Engineering which will be very difficult and require a lot of hard work which is why I am leaning to Signals. I would like to know how to get into Signals and what courses I should consider taking in high school or what special skills I should be looking at. What would be the best way to get there? Same applies to Engineering but I'd like to know is there any other way of getting in Engineering without a engineering degree? I was reading on force.ca that "Occasionally applicants with a three-year Community College Technology Diploma in Architectural Engineering, Water and Air Resources, Heating and Air Conditioning, Civil Engineering, Communication Engineering, or Mechanical Engineering are considered" How well would these applicants stand up against someone with a Bachelors and how would I get here?

Any input would be helpful, sorry for the lengthy message.


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## aesop081

A.Khan said:
			
		

> I'll be stationed far away from family,



I'm RCAF and i am posted 5000km from my hometown. Sounds like your brother doesn't know too much about the Army, the Air Force or the military in general.




> very difficult and require a lot of hard work



Thankfully, the CF don't require people who can do difficult things or hard work. In fact we prefer people who avoid that kind of thing. Oh wait.........


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## pfinlayson

I don't know where your from, but an option in the Vancouver area might to head to BCIT and join one of the Engineer units there until your ready for the Regs.  

I say BCIT's program because I know that they have an Engineering Diploma that feeds directly into their Bachelors.  If the going gets to be too much, you can step out after two years with a piece of paper (I wish I knew this 20 years ago).  Other schools, particularly technical schools  might have this as well.


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## Allgunzblazing

I am an aspiring soldier and I take strong exception to what you refer to as "crazy traditions". Every military unit (be it an element, regiment, battalion or even a platoon) has its own traditions. Some of these traditions are hundreds of years old. Members take pride in this legacy. While some of these traditions may not be agreeable to others or even to those within the same unit, they are to be respected. 

Did they not teach you this in Cadets? I feel sorry for the squadron that you are in. As for your brother - I highly doubt that he is indeed an officer in the CF, or if he is then he surely does not seem to possess any OLQs (officer-like-qualities). 

Do us a favour and consider another profession. The CF have already spent a couple of thousands on putting your through the Cadets program. There are tons of civilian careers where you can be pushing files and never have to set foot outside your local community. 

As said before, I am not a soldier as yet. Any serving or retired members are welcome to correct me.


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## Animatronic Fireman

^Please calm down.  Your first post here being an attack doesn't exactly demonstrate your fine qualities either.

To original poster.

If you seriously think an engineering degree is going to be too much work maybe you should consider something different.  I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree and am now trying to joing the reserves as an EME officer.  On my first day in class one of my professors (who became one of my favourite professors) told the entire class to "look to your left and look to your right, only one of you is going to graduate."  I became friends with the two guys I was sitting beside and I was the only one who graduated (one of the guys did end up getting his degree this year though but 3 years after I got mine).  Tons of people drop out of engineering and if you are already afraid of the work load you probably aren't going to succeed until you've had a chance to discipline yourself.  Also an Engineering Officer is probably one of the more difficult officer positions so I am sure those courses wouldn't be a cakewalk either.

Maybe you should reconsider your selections and look at some NCM positions.  I can see that your brother being an officer he would encourage you to do the same but maybe it's not for you.  There are a lot more NCM positions that officer positions to choose from (although I can't comment on the availability of those positons) but you might find something that is more interesting.

Good luck.


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## A.Khan

To Allgunzblazing and CDN Aviator: I apologize if I had offended you by posting that comment. Obviously my brother didn't actually beat down on any elements he just doesn't want me to have a hard time and to be successful in life. Besides I paraphrased, I only remembered some key stuff he said and strung it together and posted it. I will change it so I don't offend anyone in the future, but seriously take it easy... I didn't make this thread for you guys to express your opinion on some random topic, I created it to get some advice and suggestions to help me find a career in the forces or steer me in a better direction..

To Animatronic Fireman and pfinlayson: Thanks for your help I apperciate it. I awknowledge that engineering is a lot of work, and thanks for putting it into perspective (Fireman), however if I decide that an officer, or engineering is the field I want to go in I will try my hardest. That being said I am still deciding, I am hoping to hear more about the signals officer trade. Anyway Thanks a lot your advice helped me.


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## aesop081

A.Khan said:
			
		

> didn't make this thread for you guys to express your opinion on some random topic, I created it to get some advice and suggestions to help me find a career in the forces or steer me in a better direction..



I was not commenting on some random topic. You got garbage advice from your brother and I was helping you by setting things straight.


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## A.Khan

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> I was not commenting on some random topic. You got garbage advice from your brother and I was helping you by setting things straight.



Hm, thanks for setting thing straight. But unless you can provide some actual advice or suggestions (which shouldn't be hard for you since you have an impressive military history) I don't thing your actually "helping" me out.


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## Allgunzblazing

To A.Khan - I sincerely apologize for the acidic tone of my message. 

As for the question about choosing an occupation - choose a trade that you would really like to be in till retirement. I have found the staff in the RC to be exceptionally professional and helpfull. They will never try to "sell" a trade because it is currently understrength. Another option to consider is visiting the local Signals and Combat Engineers squadrons. If you tell them your dilemma, the staff there will gladly arrange a time when you can visit the squadron and know more about the job. Even if the nearest unit is a Reserve one and you tell them that you're a Reg Force candidate, chances are high that they will be most helpfull. I say this from personal experience. 

All the best.


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## jemcgrg

I've been scrolling through this site for about a week straight now trying to get more information on Signals Officers. There is a lot of information on signals operators but doesn't answer my questions. I know that training occurs in Kingston but there is no mention of how long the training is there for an officer. Does anyone know?

Also I'm interested in hearing what people like or dislike about the trade? I've applied for it this year and am waiting to be processed but I would just like to be as prepared as possible as far as what to expect. 

Any information would be appreciated. Thank you


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## Occam

Try using Google to search the site for your answers:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+signals+officer&gbv=2&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+signals+officer&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1141l8295l0l8529l38l38l2l24l0l1l453l1516l0.5.2.0.1l8l0


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## PuckChaser

We have a whole Communications and Electronics Branch board on this forum that probably has quite a bit of information on Signal Officer.


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## jemcgrg

Thank you, I will do some more digging.


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## m6

I have been searching high and low for the current course progression for new Reserve Sig O's. including the length of each phase/mod.

Most of my findings have been very outdated. Is anyone up on this?


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## 211RadOp

According to the CFSCE site, BSOC Mod 1 is 56 training days and Mod 2 is 43 training days.  This is for both Reg and Res.


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## 211RadOp

Just pulled up the CFSCE Course Calendar, there seems to be confilicting information from one page to another.  The Sig O DP1 is 79 days (PRes Mod 1 28 Days and Mod 2 51 days).

Not sure which one is correct.


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## Phazall

So I'm going to be a Signals officer after I graduate with my degree in Computer Engineering. (I have 2 more years until then).

I want to get my P. Eng designation from the Professional Engineers of Ontario, but we need to have 48 months of professional engineering experience (12 of which must be from within Canada).

I have heard that as a Signals Officer I will not be exposed to "engineering" throughout my career. Is this true? Am I really going to have to leave the military to get my P. Eng?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thank you.


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## SeR

You wouldn't necessarily have to leave the military since there's a great variety of engineering trades within it. Instead of going sigs, you could apply for one of those.


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## Phazall

I'm going Sigs, that's been decided for a long time. I'm just wondering about if this rumour I've heard is true. Are there possibilities of getting engineering experience as a SigO?


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## PuckChaser

After looking at Wikipedia to see exactly what a Computer Engineering degree entails, I doubt you'll be doing much of that stuff at all. You're an officer, and will administer Signals NCMs in providing communications networks. Maybe later in your career you'll get to work in project management, where you'll define CAF requirements, but you won't be designing the nuts and bolts yourself.


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## cupper

From the point of view of someone who has a P.Eng., you won't need to leave the military to obtain your P.Eng. Designation.

I would suggest that you discuss this with the PEO registrar to determine what is acceptable experience in your field. Register with PEO as soon as you are eligible to do so. Meet with your assigned Mentor and discuss your situation with him/her.

You may be surprised as to what is considered as acceptable experience. Particularly when you are placed in positions of responsibility, leadership and management skills, and so forth. Being an engineer of any sort is not all technical skills. You will do many things over your career (either military or civilian) that aren't directly related to the technical aspects of your degree, but are still skills that an engineer needs to have.

But the best advice you can get right now is to dialog with PEO and get their input. Your situation is not unique, and is actually quite common. They have dealt with many before you, and may even be able to direct you to CF members who can give you more details on how they dealt with their 4 years of EIT experience.


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## donaldk

Similar to the above post.  Go on PEO's website, contact a mentor/PEO representative in your area, and have a meeting with him and inquire about Engineer-In-Training.  They will decide (Mentor/PEO) whether your current job entails engineering work (hint: engineers do not always do hard engineering, but often manage engineering related operations or work with something related to engineering).  If eligible then the clock will start when you became a CELE/SigO and of course dues will be appropriately assessed for time served in Ontario. 

From my own experience (dealing with APENS, not PEO), I commissioned as a MSEO at 22 June 2009, which was deemed when the clock started for my EIT (even though I did not enroll into EIT until 2011).  Thus I had to pay dues retroactively to APENS for EIT as all time was done in Nova Scotia. Since I had 2 years experience logged off the get, I did my NPPE exam (NPPE is much easier than PEO's PPE).  I will be seeking my P.Eng license from APENS come this June since its the 4 year mark.

Good Luck!


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## 211RadOp

Talking with a SigO beside me, unless you get into a project management position, the chances of getting it as a SigO are slim.


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## Edward Campbell

Caution: 1) I'm not an engineer; and 2) I've been retired for a long time; but:

I knew several Signals officers who were also PEngs - they were, mainly, officers who, at about the rank of capt or maj, left the field force and specialized in engineering. Many rose to the comfortable rank of colonel, having spent most of their careers, after grad school, in Ottawa. *But* the PEng qualified officers who worked for me (when I headed up a quite specialized directorate in NDHQ) were MARE and CELE(Air) (I had one Signals officer - a BSEE but not a PEng, as I recall - on staff when I arrived, but I fired him for cause).

There was, and I'm guessing still is, a requirement for a modest Signals engineering cadre, but the officers who work in and lead it must have a good grounding in a Signals officers core business - supporting combat units in the field - before becoming technical specialists.


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## krimynal

Hi , I was reading previous Signal Officer forums on the site.

It seems that to join as a Signal Officer you would need a degree in electronics or computer science ( from what I understood ) but the latest answer was in 2004 ...

If I check on the Forces.ca Website  a a DEO , this is what they say : If you already have a university degree, the Canadian Forces will decide if your academic program matches the criteria for this job and may place you directly into the required on-the-job training program following basic training. basic training and military officer qualification training are required before being assigned.


So my question is : is is still Electronic and Computers related degree ? or it changed from 2004 ?

I'm still digging more into the other forums , but if anyone has the answer , I would greatly appreciate


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## secondchance

I recomend you to visit your local CFRC to get all information.According my experience it can be different time to time and trade to trade.


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## krimynal

yeah that's what I was planning on , but my CRFC was closed yesterday ( vacation ) so I thought about asking it here ! but I do plan on calling them , and also figure out what exactly the job is , since the video does show you the nicest things , but I'm looking into a typical day as a SIG O ....


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## PuckChaser

krimynal said:
			
		

> but I'm looking into a typical day as a SIG O ....



Paperwork and sending emails.


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## FutureSight

I just finished the new iteration of BSOC and it is now called SOTC (Signal Officer Troop Commander Course)

Mod 1 covers signal theory, an introduction to different systems and the employment of Signal Capabilities.
Mod 2 covers being a Duty Officer, Recce officer and troop commander (battle procedure) with some aspects of admin (writing training plans and interview and counselling).
This ran about 5 months.

In addition you will also do 2 weeks of ISSO.

This encompasses DP 1 for a Signal Officer (Reg and Res).

DP 2 is now called SJSO (Signal Junior Staff Officer) which encompasses more os the Signal Estimate and Mission Analysis.


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## krimynal

My question is pretty straight forward , just wondering if there was any SigO on the site ? I'm looking to change my degree , and I have some questions about the real work of a SigO.

I've watched the videos on Force.ca , went through some posts here on the website , but must of them were from the recruiting point of view , more than the actual job of a SigO , some posts were about SigOp , but that's the NCM side of things.

Basically I wanted to know what a SigO was doing on a regular basis , I get that it's all about communication and networking , but does he actually touch that stuff , or he is the officer in charge of the ncm's who do it ?

Other than reading and sending emails , what does he really do in a regular day of work?

I'm wondering between Arty Officer and SigO , 2 very different trades but I'm still looking , I've joined the reserve here as a Arty NCM for the time of my degree.  

Thanks !


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## mariomike

These may ( or may not ) help. 



> but I'm looking into a typical day as a SIG O ....



Question about Signal Officer
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/110954.0

Signals Officer  
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105079.0


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## krimynal

sorry made the search using SigO , and Sig , sorry !


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## mariomike

krimynal said:
			
		

> sorry made the search using SigO , and Sig , sorry !



No problem. Main thing is that you are learning as much as you can about your career choice.


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## krimynal

yeah ! from what I read though , I seem to find out ( I might be REALLY WRONG here ) that SigO tends to do more paperwork and administration stuff then the Arty Officer. 

I do know that being an Officer means Paperwork , administration , field planning , etc.  But I think , that SigO does less field Exercise , seems to do less on-hand training 

Like I said I might be wrong !


----------



## mariomike

I found Reply #37 interesting. It sort of touches on the subject.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17932/post-385588.html#msg385588
"I am a Signal Officer with 21 years experience in the Army."


----------



## krimynal

yeah , the more I read about it , the less I kinda feel that I'm gonna be in the right path. 

I would consider myself more of a field guy , and with that in mind , this path seems to be a lot more Logical , Bureaucratic job.  Which in itself is really great , maybe not that great for me tho ! 

thanks for your help !


----------



## Edward Campbell

Like most officers in most branches Signal Officers have a variety of tasks depending, especially, on where they are posted.

Sometimes a junior Sig O _may_ have to make decisions (judgement calls) about how best to deploy and use bits and pieces of technical equipment. As a general rule (s)he will decide and soldiers will execute.

The duties of a junior officer in a field unit are quite different from those of, say, a major or lieutenant colonel in an engineering branch in HQ, but one must have been the former before being the latter.

Your degree _might_ matter, especially if you want to work in some of the rather specialized areas.  In my _opinion_ (which is worth exactly what you are paying for it) degrees in Mathematics, Physics and Engineering Physics are the best for overall value and flexibility, next Electrical Engineering and then all the others.

I'm _guessing_ that Signals will tell you that Computer Science is a highly desirable programme but I _suspect_ they are wrong. My _sense_ of how the world is evolving is that much of the work currently done by computer scientists and engineers will devolve to _technicians_ or become the domain of a handful of folks with PhDs with little room in the middle for _technology managers_.

Let me give you a couple of examples: the current VCDS, LGen Guy Thibault is a Sig O,  his first degree is in Math & Physics; and Gen (Ret'd) Ramsey Withers was CDS, he was also a Sig O, his degree is in Electrical Engineering (awarded by Queens because, back in the old, old days RMC did not award degrees). Your degree should teach you two things: how to think, and something, a bit, about one (or more) areas of interest. Signals, like every branch of the CF, has a need for thinkers and for men and women who can act - do the right thing and do things right - in difficult circumstances.


----------



## krimynal

thanks a lot for that input ! 


*** EDIT ***

I'm currently doing a Bachelor Degree as a 2nd Language Teacher here in Quebec City.  I have a hard time figuring this out , that's why I'm thinking of changing degrees.  And since SigO needs Specific degree choices , I wanted to see what was the job prior to me doing the change.

I'm thinking either 

Administration Degree with a Human Ressources view.

or 

Social Communications.

The Social Comm one would let me join as a SigO , but not the admin one.  The admin one tho would help me a lot with all the paperworks , administration issues as a Officer.  That's why I don't know exactly !


----------



## Edward Campbell

IF you go into Signals you are going to be surrounded by people with science degrees and a real interest in technical maters. What's more important, perhaps, is that you will be expected to understand how and why things like radios work.

I'm only guessing, but my _suspicion_ is that "social communications" doesn't have a whole lot to do with Maxwells' equations.

If this doesn't make sense to you: 

     
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





          then you may not be very happy in Signals, because your colleagues and many of your NCOs will understand it.


----------



## krimynal

Yes this definitely doesn't make any kind of sense to me haha !

I have a meeting with my University Counsellor on Thursday , I'll ask exactly what is being taught in the degree , but just from what I hear now , I'm not even sure if I would be happy in it , I'm still looking for some input from people that are currently doing it ( friend of my sister is a SigO he's gonna give me a call tonight ) but still !


----------



## PuckChaser

E.R. Campbell said:
			
		

> then you may not be very happy in Signals, because your colleagues and many of your NCOs will understand it.



I have no idea what that is, but then again I make radios work, not design radios.


----------



## Edward Campbell

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> I have no idea what that is, but then again I make radios work, not design radios.




It should make sense to many Sig Os (but not the computer science people) and would make sense to some Foreman of Signals ~ not all, just the radio guys.

_____
P.S. The're _Maxwell's equations_ and they explain electromagnetic radiation.


----------



## Mike5

That doesn't make sense to me but it DOES look like a lot of fun... I need to get out more  

Four years in a Math / Comp Sci program and it sticks with you for life... friends don't let friends do math...


----------



## JoeDos

So I have been researching the heck out of Signals Officer and had some questions I still have yet to find answers for.
Can a new recruit or someone new to the forces join as a Signals Officer?
As the signals officer listing on forces.ca has in demand next to it what exactly does that mean?
If that trade is one of my selected will that speed the process up of my application?
If someone has a ticket for Information Technology Technician from a college will that in anyway help towards the selection (This question goes towards ACISS as well)?


----------



## George Wallace

JoeDos said:
			
		

> So I have been researching the heck out of Signals Officer and had some questions I still have yet to find answers for.
> Can a new recruit or someone new to the forces join as a Signals Officer?



Yes, if they meet the criteria required to be selected.



			
				JoeDos said:
			
		

> As the signals officer listing on forces.ca has in demand next to it what exactly does that mean?



It means exactly that; there is a demand for Signals officers.  They are looking for applicants.



			
				JoeDos said:
			
		

> If that trade is one of my selected will that speed the process up of my application?



No.  



			
				JoeDos said:
			
		

> If someone has a ticket for Information Technology Technician from a college will that in anyway help towards the selection (This question goes towards ACISS as well)?



It may help towards becoming a Signals NCM, but to become an officer you would have to have a University Degree in a relevant field.


----------



## Brasidas

"Relevant field" may be flexible. I remember a BSOC student with an art history degree.


----------



## Rheostatic

RookieMistake said:
			
		

> ...


Thanks for the info.

In addition, anyone know where I can find documentation of the prerequisites for promotion for Reserve (or Reg) SIGS at each rank?


----------



## faivious

Hi, currently I'm in my CFAT testing process, and I had a few questions concerning the trade Signals Officer (DEO - Direct Entry Officer)
I'm currently 21, and am in 2nd year University completing a degree in Computer Science.

I've applied for Sigs Officer DEO plan for Reserves, and I had a few questions.

1. After BMOQ, Common Army Phase, and Occupational Training, on the premise that I complete all of the training in success...
a) Currently I reside in Toronto, I've heard that you can choose which base you wish to work at, I won't have to relocate to a whole new location to start my occupation correct?
b) As a Sigs Officer in the Reserves, roughly I how much work hours/week am I entitled to? 
c) How much will I be looking to make as a 2nd Lt Reservist vs. Reg Force (51k) a year (Sigs Officer)?
d) I plan to make a transfer to the Regular Forces some number of years down the road most likely in the same trade (Sigs Officer), if I am in the Reg Forces Sigs Officer, will I still have a say in which bases I would like to be stationed in ? (Around Toronto), or will I be relocating?

Thank you for your time.


----------



## RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

1. 
a)In the reserves you can join a communications (Signals) unit in your local area, for instance, 32 Sig Regt Toronto. You can work there as long as you are part of the reserves. Keep in mind your training courses will require you to take courses up to 2 months full time in length in other locations (Gagetown NB, Kingston ON). 
b) You can expect to work one night (half day) a week and about one weekend (maybe 8-4 Saturday and Sunday, or maybe from Friday night to Sunday evening straight on exercise) a month.
c)  You will likely start out as an Officer Cadet as you haven't completed your degree yet. 2Lt promotion usually happens on competition of your officer training and your university degree. A OCdt makes about $100 for a full day, about $60 for a half day (less than 6 hours). A 2Lt will make about $110 a full day ($70 half day). A Reg Force OCdt will make about $2800 a month, where as a Reg Force 2Lt makes about $4500 a month. As Reg Force Sigs you would likely be required to attend RMC, so some of your room and board will be subsidized. 
d) As Reg Force Signals Officer your likelihood of getting posted in Toronto is next to nil. The best you could hope for is Kingston, then after a 2-4 year posting there maybe you could get CFB Borden (near Barrie ON). You have "influence" on where you are posted, indicating your preferences but at the end of the day your Career Manager has final say and he could post you to Alberta or Nunavut if he wanted. As an officer you should be prepared to move very often, maybe as often as every 2 - 3 years. 


http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/officer-class-a-b-service-rates.page
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-class-c-officer-rates.page


----------



## Mike5

For what it's worth, as a Sigs Officer you could have some options within the 'Golden Horseshoe' area, depending on the Regiment you join.  32 Sigs currently has a squadron parading at the Fort York Armoury in downtown Toronto and another squadron parading at Borden; 31 Sigs parades out of John Foote V.C. Armouries in downtown Hamilton.

It's a great trade, an outstanding team and there's no shortage of activity.

Regards,

iper:


----------



## Sammy98

Hi,

First of all, I wasn't sure where to post this so I decided to post this here. I was looking on the Forces.ca website and I saw that there are no related civi jobs for Signals Officer. If I sign up to become a Signals Officer and decide to leave the Forces later on, what civi job will relate to the job of a Signals Officer? What does a Signals Officer do on a regular basis that is transferable over to civi life?

Thanks!


----------



## OldCrow

Well, it partly depends on your educational background and what areas of the Signals occupation you've worked in...but suffice to say that there are a bunch of related civilian jobs - particularly in areas like engineering management, telecoms engineering and/or management, computer systems engineering and/or management, intelligence, cyber security, etc, etc, etc.

Honestly, I'm not sure why the recruiting page says there are no directly related occupations, since the occupation specification for Signals lists nearly a dozen...


----------



## Sammy98

Alright, thanks for the info!


----------



## Loachman

The Commissionaires are always hiring.


----------



## RocketRichard

Vice-Principal


----------



## RocketRichard

Loachman said:
			
		

> The Commissionaires are always hiring.



Ouch to former signal officers and to commissionaires.


----------



## Mike5

I'll second the response from OldCrow -- the technolgy and management skills are directly transferable to a wide range of civilian roles.


----------



## expwor

Switchboard Operator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwr5fPm1NHI

Just in fun

Tom


----------



## 211RadOp

Hey!  That's my related civilian job!!  We don't train Sigs on that!!


----------



## MJLANT

Hi there,

Can a Signals Officer contact me by PM please?

Thank you!!

M


----------



## JBP

MJLANT said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> 
> Can a Signals Officer contact me by PM please?
> 
> Thank you!!
> 
> M



No, probably not, they're really bad at communicating! That's why they have ACISS trades...


----------



## MJLANT

Hahahaha!!  I received all information I was looking for from two very nice Signals Officers. :nod:


----------



## Sammy98

Hi,

I have a few questions about signals officers that I would like to get answered. I have looked around these forums and haven't really found proper answers to these questions so that is why I am asking these questions. Thanks in advance! 

1) I have heard that Signals Officers don't work with any of the equipment; they sit in a cubicle and do paperwork. Is this 100% true? Are Signal Officer duties and ACISS duties really that black and white or is there some overlap?

2) On deployment, do signals officers just sit around on base or do you get to go "outside of the wire"?

3) Do signals officers get to spend time in the field or do you always sit in a cubicle?

Once again thanks in advance! I just want to make sure I don't choose a job that I will regret.


----------



## PuckChaser

1) If you're running equipment, all your ACISS guys are dead and you're in a world of hurt. You will manage people, equipment and design plans that your ACISS will execute.

2) If you're patrolling as a Sig O, something seriously went wrong.

3) If you end up posted to a field unit, or HQ and Sigs, you'll go to the field. Probably a lot.

If you want to get your hands dirty and do field work, be a NCM. If you want to manage those getting their hands dirty, and do higher level signals planning while sometimes being in a field office, be a Sig O.


----------



## Sammy98

The only problem I have with that is that I feel like then going to university is a waste of time and that NCM don't get paid as much as officers. What is your take on this?


----------



## Sammy98

Also, how can I guarantee that I'll be posted to a field unit?


----------



## PuckChaser

We have lots of ACISS members with college or university degree. It's a highly technical field and the education is not wasted.

You can top your DP1 course, and then all the COs will fight for you to go to their unit. There are 9 HQ and Sigs postings, and a couple for JSR/EW out of 40 or so candidates. The course is run once a year. The math is not good to get a field posting, being in the top third is a good way to get where you want to go.


----------



## Sammy98

Alright, thanks for all the info! I have one more question if you wouldn't mind answering:

I'm planning on going to university and getting a computer science degree because that is what I'm interested in. Do you think that what I learn in Computer Science will benefit me as a Signals Officer?


----------



## PuckChaser

You're not going to do a lot of computer programming. That being said, your degree can help you plan complex communications systems. There's also opportunities to start working in the cyber warfare domain, or at the very least network security.


----------



## Sammy98

Alright, thanks for everything!


----------



## Ludoc

Soldier100 said:
			
		

> Also, how can I guarantee that I'll be posted to a field unit?



Join as an NCM. Pretty much everyone goes to a field unit for their first posting, and if you want to stay in one it is easy to do so.


----------



## Sammy98

The ONLY thing I don't like about NCM is that their pay doesn't seem that good. Otherwise, I would definitely go NCM.


----------



## PuckChaser

Soldier100 said:
			
		

> The ONLY thing I don't like about NCM is that their pay doesn't seem that good. Otherwise, I would definitely go NCM.



The pay is more than sufficient unless you're drowning in debt. Lots of Sigs NCMs own their own home and support a family on their salary and live comfortably. I could have started as a Jr network tech in some big server farm making $15/h, and maybe gotten a few raises here and there. After 4 years in the CF I was making almost $50k a year and supporting a family.

That being said, the ones that join for the money rapidly realize its not that its cracked up to be. Especially if you only want to be an officer for the cash. If you want better pay, go to the private sector.


----------



## George Wallace

Soldier100 said:
			
		

> The ONLY thing I don't like about NCM is that their pay doesn't seem that good. Otherwise, I would definitely go NCM.



So your only concern is "MONEY"?  Sorry, but you are off to a very bad start.


----------



## Sammy98

George Wallace said:
			
		

> So your only concern is "MONEY"?  Sorry, but you are off to a very bad start.



No, I never said my ONLY concern is money. That is a factor because of course, I need to be able to pay for myself, however that is certainly not the only reason I am looking to join the army.


----------



## Sammy98

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The pay is more than sufficient unless you're drowning in debt. Lots of Sigs NCMs own their own home and support a family on their salary and live comfortably. I could have started as a Jr network tech in some big server farm making $15/h, and maybe gotten a few raises here and there. After 4 years in the CF I was making almost $50k a year and supporting a family.
> 
> That being said, the ones that join for the money rapidly realize its not that its cracked up to be. Especially if you only want to be an officer for the cash. If you want better pay, go to the private sector.



Wow, that salary actually sounds better than what I expected an NCM to actually make. After doing some thinking, I think I'm going to stick to my original plan to apply for Signals Officer as I like the idea of having the satisfaction that comes with making a successful plan that gets done correctly and because I feel like Signals Officers have a decent balance between being out in the field and not being in the field.

Thanks, you have really given me some insightful information on Signals Officers.


----------



## runormal

Soldier100 said:
			
		

> Wow, that salary actually sounds better than what _I expected an NCM_ to actually make. After doing some thinking, I think I'm going to stick to my original plan to apply for Signals Officer as I like the idea of having the satisfaction that comes with making a successful plan that gets done correctly and because I feel like Signals Officers have a decent balance between being out in the field and not being in the field.
> 
> Thanks, you have really given me some insightful information on Signals Officers.





			
				Soldier100 said:
			
		

> The ONLY thing I don't like about NCM is that their pay doesn't _seem that good._ Otherwise, I would definitely go NCM.



Did you even look at the pay scales?  :

It is no secret that Officer's make more money but really making 50k a year after 4 years and having all your training paid for is pretty damn good.


----------



## mariomike

Soldier100 said:
			
		

> The ONLY thing I don't like about NCM is that their pay doesn't seem that good.





			
				Soldier100 said:
			
		

> No, I never said my ONLY concern is money.



Guess I misunderstood.


----------



## PuckChaser

Soldier100 said:
			
		

> Wow, that salary actually sounds better than what I expected an NCM to actually make. After doing some thinking, I think I'm going to stick to my original plan to apply for Signals Officer as I like the idea of having the satisfaction that comes with making a successful plan that gets done correctly and because I feel like Signals Officers have a decent balance between being out in the field and not being in the field.
> 
> Thanks, you have really given me some insightful information on Signals Officers.



Good luck on your training if you are successful in your application.


----------



## Swingline1984

Soldier100 said:
			
		

> ...I think I'm going to stick to my original plan to apply for Signals Officer as I like the idea of having the satisfaction that comes with making a *successful plan*...



 :rofl:

Good luck with that.


----------



## purplepropwash

Hello All,

(Obligatory: This is my first post and I've tried my best to ensure I've done my due diligence by reading the terms of reference, searching past posts -- I apologize in advance if I'm asking questions that have already been asked and I understand if I need to be told to google/use search again better. EDIT: I have checked / skimmed all the links on this [search](https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+signals+officer&gbv=2&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+signals+officer&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1141l8295l0l8529l38l38l2l24l0l1l453l1516l0.5.2.0.1l8l0))

For some context: I am currently a recently graduated from post secondary specializing in computer systems and specifically network security. I currently work for a large telecommunications company but I'm considering my next steps, and specifically towards either (A) Joining the Reg Force as a CELE Air officer, or (B) joining my local Army reserve unit as a Signals Officer (39 Signal Regiment - 744 Sqn) as there are no close RCAF reserve units that require / are open to a CELE Air Officer.

To better guide my decision making process, I wanted to ask about being an Army Signals Officer and see if there's any more information I could gain outside of the CAF recruiting page.

I wanted to ask:

[list type=decimal]
[*]What are the "Day-To-Day" activities of a SigsO?
[*]What types of activities / responsibilities do they have on exercises / deployments?
[*]What percentage of the job involves I.T / NetSec?
[*]What are some of the best / worst parts of the job?
[*]What does career progression for a SigsO look like? (i.e. What does / would a Sigs O be doing 1,3, 5 years into the job?)
[/list]

Appreciate any information / opinions / feedback in advance !


----------



## PuckChaser

You have to ask yourself this question: do you want to be doing IT or network security work, or do you want to manage the people and policy of those doing IT or network security work. If you want to manage, be a Sigs Officer. If you want to do the hands on, you need to be looking at ACISS or ATIS which are NCM only.


----------



## purplepropwash

Thanks PuckChaser,

You bring up a good point and at the end of the day, I do believe that is what I want to be. Naivete and optimism aside, I want to be someone that is an enabler for a team / group of technical operators and believe that my strengths are in planning, coordination and management.


----------



## RocketRichard

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> You have to ask yourself this question: do you want to be doing IT or network security work, or do you want to manage the people and policy of those doing IT or network security work. If you want to manage, be a Sigs Officer. If you want to do the hands on, you need to be looking at ACISS or ATIS which are NCM only.


Hello:

Contact 39 Sig. Regt. and make an appointment to see a Sig O and pose the questions to her or him. Perhaps they can take you on a tour of the Squadron as well. Good luck. 

Cheers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kimbrian

If any Sigs O can share knowledge regarding general career progression in the trade? I'm starting ROTP in 2018 at UBC and since I'm married and hoping to have kids, just want to do a little bit of planning out.

From my understanding from research... (please feel free to add from your experience / knowledge)

BMOQ PLAR
BMOQ-L (CAP) next Summer, Gagetown 10 weeks
SLT and CAFJOD (7 mods) while still in school
GRADUATION AND COMMISSION in May 2021 ---> 2Lt

BSOC / SOTC mod 1 and 2 (Tp Comd, DSO), Kingston 5 months ---> Lt
ISSO, 2 weeks
2 years in rank as Lt, probably some OJT's between graduation and Capt
SJSO
Capt (hopefully within 3 years after commission)

AJSO (Army Junior Staff O)
AOC (Army Operation Course)
What others? 


Feel free to go ham!


----------



## winnipegoo7

The military doesn’t seem to give SLT to everyone  so you might have to take French classes at university if you want to learn French.   Only RMC students require SLT  and people who’s trade course is in their second language, ie a French pilot will be given SLT in order to attend pilot training. 

Edited: because I misread.


----------



## RocketRichard

bk066 said:
			
		

> If any Sigs O can share knowledge regarding general career progression in the trade? I'm starting ROTP in 2018 at UBC and since I'm married and hoping to have kids, just want to do a little bit of planning out.
> 
> From my understanding from research... (please feel free to add from your experience / knowledge)
> 
> BMOQ PLAR
> BMOQ-L (CAP) next Summer, Gagetown 10 weeks
> SLT and CAFJOD (7 mods) while still in school
> GRADUATION AND COMMISSION in May 2021 ---> 2Lt
> 
> BSOC / SOTC mod 1 and 2 (Tp Comd, DSO), Kingston 5 months ---> Lt
> ISSO, 2 weeks
> 2 years in rank as Lt, probably some OJT's between graduation and Capt
> SJSO
> Capt (hopefully within 3 years after commission)
> 
> AJSO (Army Junior Staff O)
> AOC (Army Operation Course)
> What others?
> 
> 
> Feel free to go ham!
> [/quote
> 
> BMOQ A can be in Wainwright as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hucker

You are missing ATOC (Army Tactical Operation Course) after the AJSO. AOC is done as a senior captain.

Also, I don't know if they changed it, but I never managed to get on CAFJOD as an Officer Cadet : I always got an email stating the course was full and priority was given to higher rank.


----------



## sidemount

Hucker said:
			
		

> You are missing ATOC (Army Tactical Operation Course) after the AJSO. AOC is done as a senior captain.
> 
> Also, I don't know if they changed it, but I never managed to get on CAFJOD as an Officer Cadet : I always got an email stating the course was full and priority was given to higher rank.


Same, never got one as an OCdt, preference given after you are trained in your trade

Sent from my S8 using Tapatalk (expect typos)


----------



## kimbrian

bk066 said:
			
		

> If any Sigs O can share knowledge regarding general career progression in the trade? I'm starting ROTP in 2018 at UBC and since I'm married and hoping to have kids, just want to do a little bit of planning out.
> 
> BMOQ PLAR
> BMOQ-L (CAP) next Summer, Gagetown 10 weeks
> GRADUATION AND COMMISSION in May 2021 ---> 2Lt
> 
> SLT (if needed)
> BSOC / SOTC mod 1 and 2 (Tp Comd, DSO), Kingston 5 months ---> Lt
> ISSO, 2 weeks
> 2 years in rank as Lt, probably some OJT's between graduation and Capt
> SJSO
> Capt (hopefully within 3 years after commission)
> 
> AJSO (Army Junior Staff O)
> ATOC (Army Tactical Operation Course)
> CAFJOD (7 mods)
> AOC (Army Operation Course) *Snr Capt
> 
> What others? Feel free to add with your knowledge/experience with updated info you have about where, how long, etc..




Thank you all!!! Amended in this quote with correct info for other readers' benefit.


----------



## 211RadOp

You won't get OJT between graduation and promotion to Capt.  You will be posted to a unit and will be, probably, employed as a Tp Comd.  

You may get OJT between Mods 1 and 2 depending on when they are scheduled.  If back to back, or close to it, then you will remain at CFSCE.  If not, you will get OJT somewhere, usually a field unit.  The school will attempt to find you OJT close to your family.  If OJT at a unit cannot be found, you will get it at CFSCE.


----------



## kimbrian

I'm looking for BSOC/SOTC DL but cannot find it... I know how searching courses on DL can be without knowing the right codes or names.
Does anyone know what to search to get to it?

Also, for benefit of any junior Sigs, listing down usual career progression for Army Signal Officers 00341, not personalized as above. Feel free to add and amend in between or past AOC please!

BMOQ Mod 1, done Summer before 1st yr for ROTP, St Jean X weeks (multiple serials each year)
BMOQ Mod 2, done Summer after 1st yr for ROTP, St Jean X weeks (multiple serials each year)
BMOQ-Army, aka CAP or Phase 2, done Summer after 2nd yr for ROTP, Gagetown 10 weeks
GRADUATION AND COMMISSION 2Lt
Second Language Training, if needed
BSOC / SOTC Mod 1 (May-Aug) Mod 2 (Sep-Nov), 6-7 months with gaps, 3 serials each year? 
Promotion to Lt (eff end of SOTC graduation)
ISSO, Kingston 2 weeks
First posting for 3-4 years as Tp Comd (Ottawa, Kingston, Valcartier, Petawawa, Edmonton, or others), 2 years in rank as Lt
SJSO (Signal Junior Staff Officer) as DP2
AJSO (Army Junior Staff Officer)
ATOC (Army Tactical Operations Course) before or after Capt
Promotion to Captain
CAFJOD (DL, 7 mods)
AOC (Army Operation Course) as Snr Captain


----------



## macarena

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> We have lots of ACISS members with college or university degree. It's a highly technical field and the education is not wasted.
> 
> You can top your DP1 course, and then all the COs will fight for you to go to their unit. There are 9 HQ and Sigs postings, and a couple for JSR/EW out of 40 or so candidates. The course is run once a year. The math is not good to get a field posting, being in the top third is a good way to get where you want to go.



Hi, mates!
Thanks, PuckChaser, for the intel about the IT & Communications related units!
Only to be sure, please: Is the DP1 course, the BMOQ period?



For who it can be interesting, I did a short resume of these related four trades (I hope ti will help others candidates):

ACISS
Army Communication and Information Systems Specialists
https://forces.ca/en/career/army-communication-and-information-systems-specialist/
ARMY
NCM
Signing bonus 10K

ATIS
Aerospace Telecommunications and Information Systems Technicians
https://forces.ca/en/career/aerospace-telecommunication-and-information-systems-technician/
AIR FORCE
NCM

CELE
Communication Electronics Engineering Officer
https://forces.ca/en/career/communication-electronics-engineering-officer/
AIR FORCE
OFFICER

SigsO
Signals Officers
https://forces.ca/en/career/signals-officer/
ARMY
OFFICER


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## PuckChaser

DP1 is your trade course,  after BMQ or BMOQ.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## Phwaker

Hi all,

Sorry, I'm just a bit confused about the training pipeline for SigO. On the CF website there seems to be three things included:
1. BMOQ (know this one haha)
2. Available Professional Training (in Kingston)
3. Available Specialty Training
4. Specific Army Training

Could anybody help put a time frame on each of these and let me know what order they're done, if we have any breaks in between, and where they occur.

The only thing I found in this thread similar to what I'm curious about was about ROTP so I'm not sure how much of that applies.

Thanks everyone!

Oh also, can you stay in military housing during your training when you're hopping around different locations? I thing Gagetown and Kingston afaik but would staying off base be an option for Officer trades?


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## 211RadOp

Phwaker said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry, I'm just a bit confused about the training pipeline for SigO. On the CF website there seems to be three things included:
> 1. BMOQ (know this one haha)
> 2. Available Professional Training (in Kingston)
> 3. Available Specialty Training
> 4. Specific Army Training
> 
> Could anybody help put a time frame on each of these and let me know what order they're done, if we have any breaks in between, and where they occur.
> 
> The only thing I found in this thread similar to what I'm curious about was about ROTP so I'm not sure how much of that applies.
> 
> Thanks everyone!
> 
> Oh also, can you stay in military housing during your training when you're hopping around different locations? I thing Gagetown and Kingston afaik but would staying off base be an option for Officer trades?



1. You already know this one
2. Your Signal Officer training is broken into 4 mods for a total of 109 training days.
3. It depends on the course.  For example Formation Signals Operations Course is 10 days of DL followed by 12 days residency. This will be done later in your career.
4. Again depends on the course. For example, your BMOQ-A, which you will take following BMOQ, is 55 days and is done in Gagetown.  Other Army courses will be offered at various times in your career.

While at Kingston for your SigO course, you normally live in barracks, however there are sometimes concessions made for married members.  While waiting training, you will do OJT at a unit or at CFSCE.  For FSOC and other SigO and Army specialty courses, if you are not posted to the location the training is taking place, you will live in barracks.  If you are posted there you will live at home.

All courses have different lengths, so it is difficult to predict how long you will spend in formal training, and not all courses will run back to back.  Expect around a year for BMOQ, BMOQ-A and SigO training which you will attend consecutively before you can take any other courses.

Edit to add other requested info and for clarity.


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## HiTechComms

Great Info. 

I am going for Medical and Interview in a couple days.  My chosen career was Sig. 
Sounds like I will be back like in University living on Campus.


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## 211RadOp

HiTechComms said:
			
		

> Great Info.
> 
> I am going for Medical and Interview in a couple days.  My chosen career was Sig.
> Sounds like I will be back like in University living on Campus.



Not quite, having lived in dorms at University and having lived in barracks while on training.  There is a much higher level of professionalism required for you military courses than for university courses.

Also, Sig is a generic term for Signaller as well as what a Pte in the RCCS is called.  Generally only NCMs are referred to as Sig while officers are referred to as SigO. Your Tp WO will sort you out on this during your first posting  :nod: ;D


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## HiTechComms

Over simplifying the Campus Uni living bit.

I am sure they will set me straight. I expect it. 

Seems to me that Military has more acronyms then IT.


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## Phwaker

211RadOp said:
			
		

> 1. You already know this one
> 2. Your Signal Officer training is broken into 4 mods for a total of 109 training days.
> 3. It depends on the course.  For example Formation Signals Operations Course is 10 days of DL followed by 12 days residency. This will be done later in your career.
> 4. Again depends on the course. For example, your BMOQ-A, which you will take following BMOQ, is 55 days and is done in Gagetown.  Other Army courses will be offered at various times in your career.
> 
> While at Kingston for your SigO course, you normally live in barracks, however there are sometimes concessions made for married members.  While waiting training, you will do OJT at a unit or at CFSCE.  For FSOC and other SigO and Army specialty courses, if you are not posted to the location the training is taking place, you will live in barracks.  If you are posted there you will live at home.
> 
> All courses have different lengths, so it is difficult to predict how long you will spend in formal training, and not all courses will run back to back.  Expect around a year for BMOQ, BMOQ-A and SigO training which you will attend consecutively before you can take any other courses.
> 
> Edit to add other requested info and for clarity.



Thank you for your detailed reply!

 Also, I was told sometime after creating my post that BSOC runs only once a year. Am I correct in assuming that once BMOQ, BMOQ-A, and BSOC have been completed you are considered a full fledged SigO and are promoted to Lt?

Thanks again !


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## HiTechComms

I wouldn't be surprised we run into each other in BMOQ at this rate if we get in. 

Good Luck


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## Phwaker

HiTechComms said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be surprised we run into each other in BMOQ at this rate if we get in.
> 
> Good Luck



Hopefully! 

Still waiting on my medical approval before I get competition listed :/

Good luck to you as well!


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## HiTechComms

Phwaker said:
			
		

> Hopefully!
> 
> Still waiting on my medical approval before I get competition listed :/
> 
> Good luck to you as well!



Well Medical was done. Cause I am an older candidate I had to do Blood workup and submitted mid October. Recruiter received it late oct they said it would take 2 months to process, it was done in less two weeks! Finished interview this week. Now all that is left is Reference check and Security. They said some time in January 15th I should hear something back. For some reason I think I will hear by December. I know when I started the process there were 49 positions available in Early September, according to the HR officer there are still 49 positions out of 52 open. 
Doesn't sound like a lot of people want into this field.. Doesn't surprise me as I work in IT and pretty well much everyone hates IT, so I guess the private and public/mil spheres share that attitude. 
It feels to me like CAF is pretty desperate for Signals anything. Doesn't really surprise me since you can make far more money in private sector. 

Oh I was informed that its also a 9 year contract. I applied for CAF early 2000's and it was 4 year contract. So I guess somethings must have changed. 

Any way very exciting time for me.


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## Mike5

Phwaker said:
			
		

> Thank you for your detailed reply!
> 
> Also, I was told sometime after creating my post that BSOC runs only once a year. Am I correct in assuming that once BMOQ, BMOQ-A, and BSOC have been completed you are considered a full fledged SigO and are promoted to Lt?
> 
> Thanks again !



For what it's worth, in the past BSOC has run twice a year, a Winter serial and a Summer serial.  The Army changes course durations and schedules most years.  By the time you get to it, the schedule may change again.  

You are considered an officer once you are promoted to 2Lt.  You need BSOC to be promoted to Lt; BMOQ-A is a pre-requisite for BSOC and BMOQ is a pre-requisite for BMOQ-A.


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## RafaSGomes

Hi all !

Very nice post ! Thank you all for all this information.

I'll apply to Signal Officer trade as soon as I get my citizenship. I already work in IT domain and I think that I'll love SigO career.
Sad thing is that I've heard that security check is very long when you're not born in Canada, so I expect starting BMQ in 2023... 2024  =/

Sorry about my grammar errors. I immigrated to Canada in 2016 and I've been living in Québec since then. So I do not practice my English so often.

Have a nice day you all and nice to meet you !


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