# Medical Officer Training Plan (MOTP) [MERGED]



## amyliak

Hi, just a couple of questions,

I have been accepted into the communications reserves as a Comm. Res. Op. and will be going for BMQ/SQ this summer. My question is: Does anyone (MOTP) know if I have bumped myself into a higher bracket of eligability for Med School as a serving memeber of the Forces. What I mean to say are persons current members of the Forces given preferred application status such as First Nations or Francaphones outside of Quebec.

Any insight would be most appretiated.

I am highly competitive as things currently stand but each little bit helps.

Cheers.


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## Donut

amyliak said:
			
		

> Hi, just a couple of questions,
> 
> .... My question is: Does anyone (MOTP) know if I have bumped myself into a higher bracket of eligability for Med School as a serving memeber of the Forces. What I mean to say are persons current members of the Forces given preferred application status such as First Nations or Francaphones outside of Quebec.
> 
> ....



Not in the slightest.  Here's some detail of some of the tng plans:

MOTP:  Get into med school, apply in 2nd year, sign a contract for the duration of your tng, a Family/ Emerg residency and be a Reg F MO for a bunch of years.

MMTP: Be a serving member (Reg or Res), meet enrollment criteria, compete with other serving members for CF sponsored positions, do med school, residency, and be a reg f MO for a bunch of years.

I suspect if you poke around the recruiting or Health Services boards this has all be discussed, so I'll let you dig for the rest of it.

DF


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## Mapper

Here is the CF Health recruiting page: http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/physician/engraph/home_e.asp?Lev1=3&Lev2=9

There are some med schools in Canada that have some seats reserved for military members.  These seats are left empty if there are no military applicants to fill them.  The university of Ottawa has an indepth document outlining its admission policy. (http://www.medecine.uottawa.ca/admission/eng/AdmissionPolicy.html).  Dalhousis also has some military seats.  There are a few more schools that do as well, I am just not sure of them at the moment.  

As well as applying to Med school (done in Sept/Oct for the following year) you also have to apply through the MOTP/MMTP program (the msg comes out in Jan of each year) and get selected by them as well.  Once the military has selected you, your name is forwarded to the university med school.

Hope that helps.  The two links above are great and contain lots of info.


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## amyliak

Thanks Mapper,

U of O is one of my top choices (doing my undergrad there now) and have read the document though the med school applications people were a bit fuzzy on how this process worked. I'll book another appointment with them and see if we can clarify the point.

I'll start digging around to see who has reserved military seats at other schools.

As far as MOTP is concerned I was originally informed that I would make the application after I was accepted to med school and MOTP would begin my second year. However, I have heard some rumours that the CF is intending to change this policy and allow 1st year students to enroll the summer before they start med school. Spoke with the woman who administrates the MOTP (can't recall her name) and she stated that my application into MOTP was guarenteed barring any disasters in the next year if my med school applications are successful.

Thanks again, Cheers.


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## Gwen

Hi,

I am currently undergoing MOTP selection process. I was told to expect offer of enrollment soon. I have read up on the MOTP as much as I could on the DND websites, but it never talks about the nitty gritty details of HOW IT EXACTLY works onces enrolled. I was hoping to find other MOTP persons who have had some personal experience with this and can help me out by answering some of the questions I have.

1) How does the military pay for my expenses? Do I pay first, then they reimburse? Or they pay for everything first hand?

2) In terms of instruments and texts needed for education, does Military pay for the cheapest available, or do they pay for the most appropriate equipment and texts needed for the task?

3) Exactly how much can I expect to net from a gross 44,000$ salary?

4) Do they really leave you alone for the first 4 years? Can I participate in things like Neimegen marches or exercises?

5) What is the order of my required training after 1st year med school? In what order do they come in? Is it mandatory that I do it at the end of first year?

6) what happens after 1st summer? Is there training in subsequent summers, or do I have to shadow a physician in the CF? 

7) I have been in the naval reserves for 5 years, but I was wondering what is it like for a female in CF medical services? Any different? 

8) Tell me more about the MOTP life which I may not have asked!!!

Thanks so much for taking time to answer these!


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## kincanucks

Call your CFRC/D and ask for the contact number of the person responsible for attracting doctors and medical students and that person will be able to answer your questions. The experiences of others don't necessarily equate to what you may experience.


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## dapaterson

You've probably read it already, but there's a pamphlet at:

http://64.254.158.112/pdf/MOTP_en.pdf

As for pay: Too many variables can affect your pay, including marital status and provice of residence.  In addition, if you receive a lump-sum payment (ie enrolment bonus) it may dramatically skew your take-home pay in the year where it is received - future payments in that taxation year will be reduced as your year-to-date taxable income will be elevated.  It may be worthwhile to consult with a good financial planner to deal with any such payments and minimize your tax liability at the end of the year.

Review the CBIs on vested rights to pay on component transfers.  (CBI 209.211(9.1), to be precise).  Dpeending on your current pay scale in the Reserve Force, you may be entiteld to a slightly higher pay rate on entry into the Regular Force.  Given the uniqueness of the military medical world, I'm not sure whether there may be a difference.

And congratulations on your entry to medical school!


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## Gwen

Hi Thanks for the above info, but I wouldn't have come here asking for answers which can be easily answered by reading online brochures. The above questions were posed to different people and I haven't really found out any details. i was hoping some one with first hand expereince can tell exactly how it is. It is very intimidating to talk to a Colonel or a Commander and asking what seems like such stupid questions, especially when they are on cell phones and confusing me with another MOTP applicant. I definitely understand the experiences in MOTP is individualized, however it won't be bad to get somewhat of an idea how exactly MOTP is administered especially in a province where military presence is not very prevalent. It's just like a new recruit asking corporals in his unit what to expect for basic. 

So please keep the answers coming, especially with regards to exactly how the actual MOTP is administered. 

thanks again for taking your time to remind me of how my pay scales and pensions might work out. As you may know pension for reservists is a relatively new thing, so I have to figure out how my time served may add to my pension. As to the pay scale as a LS, it is actually lower than what I would be getting as a first year med student in military...so no game there!


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## Meredith

I am going to try and revive this thread, as I am considering the MOTP program.

The original poster was asking about how the MOTP is administered. I am more curious about the work life of a medical officer. My biggest fear about signing up to this program is that I will not see enough "sick" patients, and therefore might lose some of my skills. (This fear comes from hearing from a Navy physician that they see mostly young, healthy males). Can anyone comment on this? 

Thank you!


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## kincanucks

Meredith said:
			
		

> I am going to try and revive this thread, as I am considering the MOTP program.
> 
> The original poster was asking about how the MOTP is administered. I am more curious about the work life of a medical officer. My biggest fear about signing up to this program is that I will not see enough "sick" patients, and therefore might lose some of my skills. (This fear comes from hearing from a Navy physician that they see mostly young, healthy males). Can anyone comment on this?
> 
> Thank you!



Well I will comment on the fact that here in Gagetown we don't have enough fracking doctors to see people for physical health exams and since when is being a doctor looking after "sick" patients" only?  Perhaps you should first look at what being a doctor is before considering MOTP or any other medical training.  Especially the preventative medicine part.

Call your CFRC/D and ask for the contact number of the person responsible for attracting doctors and medical students and that person will be able to answer your questions and they will put you in contact with a serving military doctor.


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## Cansky

Meredith said:
			
		

> I am going to try and revive this thread, as I am considering the MOTP program.
> 
> The original poster was asking about how the MOTP is administered. I am more curious about the work life of a medical officer. My biggest fear about signing up to this program is that I will not see enough "sick" patients, and therefore might lose some of my skills. (This fear comes from hearing from a Navy physician that they see mostly young, healthy males). Can anyone comment on this?
> 
> Thank you!


Meredith, the population base of the military is 18ish to 50ish.  So yes you will see mostly health young soldiers.  Most military doctors work in local ER's in the area they are posted to.  You also have to so many hours of MCSP (maintenence of compentency skills) every month.  Keeping up your skills is really going to depend on you and how proactive you want to be in keeping those skills up.  Also a Doctor in the military has to be more than a doctor ( I have limited experience with the civilian side of medicine) you'll be expected to mentor junior medical technicians and Physician assistants.


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## Meredith

Kincanucks, I realize that being a doctor involves more than taking care of sick patients. My fear was having a disproportionate number of healthy patients, which has been communicated to me (by someone in the forces) as potentially leading to a loss of skill. Certainly, no one wants everyone to be sick, and a physician is supposed to promote health, but I don't think you can deny that you need to encounter some level of illness in order to know how to deal with it. 

I have indeed been in contact with a medical recruiter, but my military husband has explained to me that only taking a recruiter's word may not give you the entire picture, and it is a good idea to try and get some different perspectives. As Gwen said earlier, not all information can be found in brochure. As for suggesting I research what being a doctor means... I thought I had a pretty good understanding that physicians are expected to deal with both healthy and sick patients, emergencies and maintenance and prevention. Your comment is kind of aggressive / defensive for what I think is a legitimate question.

Kirsten Luomala, thank you for explaining some of the opportunities. This is the type of information I am looking for. Very helpful!


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## motto

hi meredith,
i disagree with one of the replies you received...i finished family medicine residency via the MOTP and, although the plan is excellent and i have no regrets, i try to do at least 2 shifts weekly in a local ER to keep skills of medicine alive.  most physicians i know thrive on finding a diagnosis, being mentally challenged by a patient's presentation...most of us like the bloody/messy stuff and procedures.  we like to be able to make sick patients healthy again.  of course, there is a need for preventation, but we didn't become physicians to do preventative work.  for that, we could have become educators.  prevention is a very minimal part of our job, because when patients come to see us in a civilian practice, they are coming in with a concern or acute illness.  whereas in the military, there are more routine, mandatory, physical exams; sports injuries; some trauma.  however, there is still much illness seen in the CF.  patients 18 - 59 can present with a variety of illness...many interesting diagnoses present during those years.   
also, civilian physicians that go directly into urban walk-in clinics can also lose their skills...it all depends on the type of person you are and the type of physician you want to be.
best of luck,


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## HartAttack

Hey everyone,

I'm currently a first year student at an Ontario university studying Biomedical Science. I've long aspired to be a family physician with an interest in emergency medicine, lately I have been very interested in the Medical Officer Training Program. However that option is obviously a few years off and I'm also very interested in serving with the reserves while still in my undergrad.

I've called and emailed 25 Field Ambulance in Toronto but I'm just not getting any calls back so I figured I'd ask here before I went crazy with trying to get in contact with them.

My question is whether Health Services Reserve units are only for civilian trained and employed healthcare professionals, or whether someone like myself with a strong interest in medicine (but no civilian training) could join a health services reserve unit.

I have an armoured reserve unit much closer to me but I am deffinitely willing to make the drive if it means I can start gaining some experience and comfort in the health services.

Hopefully someone much older and wiser than myself can help out!  

Thanks


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## Armymedic

I will start by saying any experience military experience is better than none, especially once you get into medical school, where you will not have time to do much in the reserves. It shouldn't matter if you are an officer or enlisted, either experience will be advantageous. Specifically because you asked; as a former armour crewman, now medic -> PA, I can state with confidence that my time as armoured was not wasted once I became medical.

The MOTP is easier to get into once you are accepted to a medical program.


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## medicineman

Rider Pride said:
			
		

> The MOTP is easier to get into once you are accepted to a medical program.



Unless things have changed in the last little while, you usually need to have completed first year medicine to enroll in it, since that's where most people are lost.

To add to what RP said, you'll be a bit ahead of the power curve if you've got some experience going into it - nothing wore for a brand new baby MO to be parachuted into a batallion or regimental UMS with ZERO military experience - it's the army equivalent of getting fed to the wolves.  I'd actually suggest going the armoured route - it's something different for one thing, will broaden your military experience some and will give you some perspective of what the people you'd eventually be supporting have to go through day to day.   Being an MO is essentially occupational medicine with a family medicine slant to it, so the more forearmed you are, the better off your patients will be.  Also, you'll have some military background so won't fall into the trap of someone leading you astray about stuff when you get to a unit.

 :2c:

Cheers, and good luck.

MM


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## chrisf

Med school is tough to get into... if you're working part time to pay for school now, consider the reserves not so much to gain military experience, but instead as an employer who will give you a very flexible (and decent paying) part time job while you're going to school... the experience is a bonus though...

If you're not working part time, and don't need the extra cash, and this is just my thoughts on it, don't worry about "gaining experience with the military" that can come later, worry about your marks and getting into med school. Then apply for MOTP. Good marks are probably more important on the application then two years in a mo'litia unit.

(That's said as someone who's got 6 and 1/2 years in post secondary, paying for it with my mo'litia pay-cheques. If you've got to work, the reserves is the way to go, if you don't have to work, concentrate on school! Then again, I'll graduate shortly with no student loans, and money in the bank...)


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## HartAttack

Thanks Everyone,

I do see how getting the experience from an armoured unit is important.
The only reason I was hoping to get into a field ambulance is so that I could knock off some "medical experience" to add to the the old resume rather than trying to do the reserves AND gain experience volunteering at a hospital. 

I already have my university paid for (my dad is an admin at the school) so I don't necessarily need the money, but it certainly would be nice  :nod:

Marks will always come first but I am champing at the bit a bit to join what I know will be a great crew of people.

Thanks again for the opinions!


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## md2b

Hi;

I'm a previous reservist medic-turned-MOTP. You can PM me if you like. The medic experience is awesome--go NCM if you want hands on pt care. I found it a great asset when I applied to medical school. And it's a relevant line of work you're interested in.... I doubt I would make a very good infanteer lol

But remember: MOTP enrollment has dropped significantly recently: from ~40 --> ~26 -->3 or 4 this past year. The signing bonuses are gone and the competition is up.

good luck : )


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## Tuna

I have some questions that I couldn't find answers to on this site, or the forces site, I have talked to 2 recruiters via e-mail and they contradicted each other on some of the questions, so to simplify this, I'm going to order these questions via career progression, and if you can answer any or all of them that would be great, thank you.

- MOTP: does it actually exist? one recruiter said yes, the other said that I have to be a practicing doctor before signing the papers to apply? when does one do the training? before med school or during summers? if the latter what happens if I attend a school such as the University of Calgary that skips summer in order to finish the program in 3 years?

-Signing bonus: if I sign on as an already practicing doctor I get a bonus for signing on, am I correct? is it tax free?

-Army,Navy, Air force: according to the recruiter, the top doctors get their first choice of branch, is this true? is it more than just the top of the class that gets their choice? what are the main differences between branches, is it just the uniform and the deployments? I am assuming that a seaman is more prone to certain diseases than an infantryman and vice versa

-Rank progression: the recruiter told me that a medical officer will probably make major and be able to apply for a specialization after 4 years of service, is this accurate? what are the specializations available? (from my knowledge they are emergency, aviation, submarine, tropical, general surgery, orthopedic surgery, psychiatry, and anesthesia any more?) how does command and rank structure work among medical officers obviously differently from other officers, does one take on a more supervisory role if they do not choose to specialize? one must compete for specializations with their peers, how fierce is the competition on say, anesthesiology?

I am sorry if some of these questions have been asked before, i am just somewhat confused with all of the information given and not given to me


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## medicineman

MOTP exists - you have to have completed first year usually before accepted.

Most docs end up doing their military training at the end of their residencies in Family Med.

Signing bonus for trained docs - can't be sure if they're still doing it.

Uniform - purple MOSID so doesn't really matter much.  As for "tops getting choice", I wish there was a talking out of the arse smiley here.  You deal with your career manager to sort out where you're going and it's by need and by dartboard hits.

Usually you can be a major in about 4 years - unless you get a clinical major's slot or another residency, you're pushing paper.  Generally, specialties available are public health, general and orthopaedic surgery, anaesthesia, internal medicine, and psychiatry.  You can take the flight surgeon or diving medicine courses as well - they sometimes can lead to a US residency program in aerospace or undersea medicine.

The residency positions are hard to get into usually.

Hope that helps.

MM


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## Gunner98

A couple of great resource that answers many of your questions:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/rec/phys-med/msfmr-emrmf-eng.asp
and
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/205-eng.asp  paragraph 205.525 for eligibility and Table D for amounts.


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## Snakedoc

I was wondering if somebody could post on this thread with some more updated information.  Having read CBI 205.525, I understand what recruiting allowance amounts were previously in effect as of April 2012.  However, I also see that according to the article below recruiting allowances have been eliminated for "medical officers, lawyers, meteorological technicians, communication specialists and aerospace control operators" with the article dated July 2012.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/07/03/ns-dnd-signing-bonuses.html

Does anyone know if the changes to the recruiting allowances are only affecting DEO schemes or does this also affect training plans like MOTP as well?  For example, if someone joins MOTP in the 4th year of medical school or first year of residency, are they still currently entitled to the signing bonuses that were previously in effect for CBI 205.525 or have these been eliminated as well?


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## MedCorps

Currently there are no recruiting bonuses for Medical Officers on any entry scheme. 

Although we are still actively recruiting, we are now in a much healthier human resources position for medical officers than we were when we needed to have recruiting bonuses.  

MC


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## 123Medical

Hi, 

My name is Sam I am a Canadian citizen and hope to join the CF and become a Medical Officer. The only question I have is: is mandatory I graduate from a Canadian Medical School?

I have been accepted into a 6 year medical program at NUI Galway, Ireland (accredited med. school) and intend to write the MCCEE. What are my chances if i apply for the MOTP? 

Thank you
Have a great day


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## 123Medical

Hi, 

My name is Sam I am a Canadian citizen and hope to join the CF and become a Medical Officer. The only question I have is: is mandatory I graduate from a Canadian Medical School?

I have been accepted into a 6 year medical program at NUI Galway, Ireland (accredited med. school) and intend to write the MCCEE. What are my chances if i apply for the MOTP? 

Thank you
Have a great day


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## Shamrock

Hi Sam!  Perhaps this thread can be of some help to you?


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## Shamrock

Hi Sam!  Perhaps this thread can be of some help to you?

Sorry Shamrock, but I merged his 2 threads. :-*


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## CombatDoc

Sam,

Congratulations on being accepted into medical school.  Since it is in Ireland, though, I suspect that your chance of acceptance into the MOTP is very remote.  The number of MOTP positions available is not very high to begin with since the CF is nearly up to strength in Medical Officers.  Check with your Recruiting Office as they should be able to advise you on MOTP.  Good luck with your medical education.


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## 123Medical

Thank you CombatDoc I'll call my recruiter and talk to him about my chances. 
&& Thank you for the link Shamrock, but its not working. Would you mind re-posting it?

Have a great day


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## Shamrock

123Medical said:
			
		

> Thank you CombatDoc I'll call my recruiter and talk to him about my chances.
> && Thank you for the link Shamrock, but its not working. Would you mind re-posting it?
> 
> Have a great day



They were links back and forth between your two threads. The site frowns upon cross-posting, so I thought I'd try for a bit of fun before the mods came in.


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## CF-Hopeful13

Hi:
I am thinking about enlisting and have a few questions, specifically regarding the Medical Officer Training Program. First off, approximately how long before graduating gr. 12 should I apply to CF? (I am hoping to attend Dalhousie, if that makes a difference). Also, I really want to be in the army. I don't know why, but I just can't see myself in the Navy or AF. Is the application process for the MOTP going into the army generally very competitive? Really, is the application process for the MOTP very competitive in general? I know forces.ca says that application can be very competitive for certain jobs, but it doesn't list any examples. Thanks in advance for any help you guys may be able to supply.


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## CombatDoc

If you're still in high school, you are a long way off from being eligible for MOTP.  First, finish high school.  Then, start a university program that leads to a Bachelor's program while preparing to apply to medical school.  Once you've been accepted to medical school, THEN consider MOTP if a) you want to do Family Medicine when you graduate and b) you are still interested in the military.  Is application to medical school competitive?  Yes. Is application to MOTP competitive?  Yes.  I would be more concerned about getting into medical school at your stage of life.

In terms of wearing an Army/Navy/AF uniform, you can request a certain environment which you may or may not get, depending on quotas.

All this to say that you have a journey ahead.  Good luck.


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## CF-Hopeful13

Hi: 
Thanks so much for your clarification. Judging by your extensive knowledge, I'm going to assume that you are an MO, and I have just one more question. My 1st choice university offers " undergraduate medical education." Is this considered a Bachelor's program or a medical school program? If it is a med school program, what would you recommend I do my Bachelor's in to best prepare me for preclerkship and clerkship years?


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## CF-Hopeful13

After a little digging, I believe I have found the answers to my questions. Thanks anyway.


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## CF-Hopeful13

I am set on enlisting as a medical officer, but I am unsure of the best way to go about this. In your guys' opinions, would I be better off getting my B.Sc. and then applying for the MOTP at the same time as med school, or should I complete my MD and go for a direct entry into BMQ and leadership training? Does the CF prefer one to the other?


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## Teager

I think this was the best reply you will get from your original thread.

From CombatDoc



> If you're still in high school, you are a long way off from being eligible for MOTP.  First, finish high school.  Then, start a university program that leads to a Bachelor's program while preparing to apply to medical school.  Once you've been accepted to medical school, THEN consider MOTP if a) you want to do Family Medicine when you graduate and b) you are still interested in the military.  Is application to medical school competitive?  Yes. Is application to MOTP competitive?  Yes.  I would be more concerned about getting into medical school at your stage of life.
> 
> In terms of wearing an Army/Navy/AF uniform, you can request a certain environment which you may or may not get, depending on quotas.
> 
> All this to say that you have a journey ahead.  Good luck.[quote/]


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## CF-Hopeful13

While the answer CombatDoc gave to my original thread was very helpful and answered the questions I had asked there, I asked very different questions in the two threads. My original questions were more in regard to the application process into MOTP, while the question I asked here was whether to join MOTP or obtain an MD on my own then enlist in CF. Thanks anyway, though.


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## Teager

Ok so read the highlighted yellow parts.

From CombatDoc



> If you're still in high school, you are a long way off from being eligible for MOTP.  First, finish high school.  Then, start a university program that leads to a Bachelor's program while preparing to apply to medical school.  Once you've been accepted to medical school, THEN consider MOTP if a) you want to do Family Medicine when you graduate and b) you are still interested in the military.  Is application to medical school competitive?  Yes. Is application to MOTP competitive?  Yes.  I would be more concerned about getting into medical school at your stage of life.
> 
> In terms of wearing an Army/Navy/AF uniform, you can request a certain environment which you may or may not get, depending on quotas.
> 
> All this to say that you have a journey ahead.  Good luck.[quote/]
> 
> That answers your question.  Get accepted to medical school first then you can apply to MOTP if you don't want to you can get your MD on your own then enter the CAF that way or don't. Its up to you.


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## CF-Hopeful13

I think that we may not be on the same page here. Let me break it down. There are two options for becoming a medical officer in the CF, which I am sure you are already aware of, but to play it safe I'll explain them. First, and I quote, "If you already have a medical degree and an unrestricted license to practice family medicine in a Canadian province or territory, the Canadian Forces may place you directly into the required on-the-job training program following basic training.", this is also known as direct entry. Secondly, "Because this position requires a medical degree, the Canadian Forces will pay successful recruits to complete an Undergraduate Medical Education Program at a Canadian university.", or entering through the MOTP (Medical Officer Training Plan). I wanted to know which held a greater probability of being sucessfully accepted into CF, seeing as medical officer is considered a rather competitive job in terms of the application process.


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## Teager

The point CombatDoc was makig is that you have a very long road ahead of you and no matter what you must get accepted to medical school before you can apply for MOTP or go for direct entry. Since that is going to take time the needs change for the CAF and no one is going to tell you which has a greater probability. If you get accepted to MOTP and the CAF is paying your way you will owe service back to them which would mean you will have been accepted by the CAF as long as you pass school.


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## Nudibranch

The CF doesn't care that much, tbh. From a financial POV, MOTP makes more sense at this time - direct entry used to have a signing bonus associated with it to defray the costs of your education, but no longer does. Under MOTP not only do you get a salary, but tuition, books, travel for mandatory away rotations etc is paid. And your time in school is pensionable time. 
If the CF becomes desperate for MO's again in the future, the signing bonus for direct entry will likely reappear; if it doesn't, it won't.


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## Nudibranch

If you apply out of HS, you're not applying MOTP - you can only apply MOTP once you have been _accepted_ into a medical school (it actually used to be after you have completed the first year of a 4-yr med school, not sure if that changed). 
Not only that, but if you're accepted MOTP, you can only do your residency in Family Medicine. Provided you remain interested in medicine, you might find your interest drifting to other fields. Maybe you'd rather be a vascular surgeon, or a pediatrician, or whatever - if you're in MOTP you don't get the choice. 

For structuring your undergrad (the MD is also considered undergrad, which is confusing, but in Canada you need a minimum of 3 years' of undergrad before applying to med school, and generally a full 4-year degree if preferred), most pre-med programs pre-structure it for you, but check out the prerequisite courses required to apply to the various med schools. UWO used to have a bunch of very specific ones, but now appears to have dropped this requirement. Provided you include the prerequisites, you can pick any major you like for undergrad, you don't need to stick with whatever the school offers as a "pre-med" option.

As for A/N/AF - medical is a "purple" trade. Regardless of the environmental uniform you wear, you can be posted to an Army, Navy, or AF base. Whether you yourself are Army and the posting is AF won't matter.


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## CF-Hopeful13

Thanks both of you, your answers have definitely cleared up a lot of question I had. I do, however, have one more. If I am accepted into MOTP, after my 4th year med school will I have to apply for my residency or does CF organize residency programs for OCdts?


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## Nudibranch

You apply through CaRMS but into a funded Family Res position. Basically, you are a free resident for the program (instead of being paid by the residency program, you're being paid by CAF). Most if not all programs with have an MOTP/MMTP spot (or more than one spot), so your competition is only other MMTP's/MOTP's. These are the spots for the 2013 Match:
https://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_sched_family_nd_e.shtml

You will be required to apply for a spot at your own institution to save the CAF $$$ on interview travel, and will be allowed to apply to a number of other institutions. If you match at a different institution, the CAF will pay for your move.


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## mkicetea

Hi, 

My name is private Kadhim, I've been with the reserves for about 4 years now with the Engineers... I just got accepted to a few medical schools outside of Canada: Ireland, Poland, and the Caribbean.  I would like to apply to the medial officer training program, would they fund my med school if I do it outside on Canada?
If there's any related posts that I've missed that could answer my question, please leave a reply
Thanks


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## mkil

No. They will only fund to Canadian Universities. I have looked into it before. Even at that, there are certain Canadian Universities that they prefer... but will consider all of them.


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## dapaterson

CFAO 9-63, in part:

GENERAL
3.     The MOTP and DOTP provide at public expense:

     a.   in the case of MOTP, three academic years of training and two
          years of postgraduate training required for family medicine
          certification for undergraduates in the Faculty of Medicine at a
          university in Canada who are enrolled in the Regular Force and
          are assigned to the medical officer military occupation code
          (MOC); and


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## Nudibranch

Yup, the system simply isn't set up for it. It would require auth for an OUTCAN educational posting (a few of those exist for postgrad studies in the CAF Health Services, but not undergrad med school - and those that exist are ones that can't be received inside Canada, as Canada doesn't offer, for ex, fellowships in Aerospace Med).


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## DAA

And to compound things even more, if you do your Medical Studies outside Canada, graduate and then wish to pursue a career with the CF as a Medical Doctor, you would then have to obtain an accredited internship from a recognized Canadian University or Hospital and also obtain residency on your own, prior to even submitting an application to the CF.


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## Moxo

I've been looking into this, and I am going to talk to someone at my personnel selection office about it. But I was wondering if there is currently a path that an NCM could take that would provide the required training to go from an NCM to a Medical officer.. I am aware of the UTPNCM, CEOTP, and CFR programmes. None of those seem to be an option for someone wishing to become a medical officer. I suspect that it is because of the many years of schooling it takes to become a doctor. Outside of putting in a release and going back to school for a few years then re-applying through the MOTP I don't see a way to do it.. So there it is that is my question.


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## medicineman

If you already have a degree or are working on one, you can try to apply through the MMTP - there is a special comminssioning pathway that is sometimes opened up so that qualified NCO's can apply.  Another option is, if you're a Med Tech, get your PA training, do your obligatory service and then try through the MMTP program - I've known a couple of people that actually had that dangled in front of them.  Otherwise, I'd say you could do UTPNCM, get your commission, do your oblig time and go MMTP or get out, go back to school and go MOTP as mentioned.

Hope that helps.

MM


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## CombatDoc

Keep in mind that the CAF does not have any dedicated seats in med schools for military members. 

So, the key to any military medical training program will be your ability to get accepted into a Canadian medical program based on your merits (academic, social, experiential, etc).  All that to say you will likely need an undergraduate degree before bring considered for admission to a med training program.


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## clueless_stranger

Hi, I'm 14 and I was just wondering if I could have some clarification on the Medical Officer Training Plan. I have done a lot of research on the forces.ca site but I can't seem to find enough information. First of all, I was wondering if the Forces pay for your undergraduate degree too, or just your medical degree. I was also wondering about the specifics and details on specializing in psychiatry or other medical specializations. I also read that you could go to any university and that it didn't have to be Canadian. Is that true? And would the forces still pay for your medical degree there? Even as a medical officer, do you still have to take the basic officer training course with guns and camouflage and all that? Does that mean that even as a medical officer, you still will be fighting in the front lines in Afghanistan? My last question is what undergraduate course or courses are prerequisites for the MOTP?


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## clueless_stranger

Hi, I'm 14 and I was wondering if there is anyone that has successfully done or that has applied to the Medical Officer Training Plan. If possible, I'd like to know the full details. Also, I'm specifically looking for someone in the field of psychiatry...


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## Master Corporal Steven

Good day clueless_stranger,

Questions on the Medical Officer training plan have been asked and answered in depth on this form. You can conduct more research on this site for more detailed answers as i will be brief in mine.

Medical Officer Training Plan (MOTP) the minimum requirements for applicants is to already have an undergraduate degree completed (Not Paid for by the CAF under a paid education plan) and have gained admission into a recognized *Canadian* university medical program. All CAF paid education programs are for Canadian Colleges and Universities only.

All officers take BMOQ before moving onto trade specific training, this does not mean that they will be in the front lines of the battlefield in the event that they are deployed overseas on operation or humanitarian assistance with the DART team. We are no longer in Afghanistan for current operations visit the following link: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/operations/current-list.page#tab-1424977816603-5

There is information on our recruiting website on the medical related occupations, I have provided the links to the occupations below. 

Bio Science Officer:  http://www.forces.ca/en/job/bioscienceofficer-51 

Dental Officer: http://www.forces.ca/en/job/dentalofficer-45 

Medical Officer: http://www.forces.ca/en/job/medicalofficer-50

Nursing Officer: http://www.forces.ca/en/job/nursingofficer-53

Pharmacy Officer: http://www.forces.ca/en/job/pharmacyofficer-48

Physiotherapy Officer http://www.forces.ca/en/job/physiotherapyofficer-44

Social Work Officer: http://www.forces.ca/en/job/socialworkofficer-54

For undergraduate degrees meeting the requirements for acceptance into an approved Canadian Medical school I suggest that you conduct a search of the Canadian Medical schools to find the information pertaining to their requirements for admission.

I have briefly answered your questions, more information can be fond by conducting a better search of this site.


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## mariomike

clueless_stranger said:
			
		

> Hi, I'm 14 and I was wondering if there is anyone that has successfully done or that has applied to the Medical Officer Training Plan. If possible, I'd like to know the full details.



MOTP discussions you may find of interest,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+army+versus+navy&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=dRu6VYfzDqSC8QftzJuYBw&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+motp&start=0



			
				clueless_stranger said:
			
		

> I was also wondering about the specifics and details on specializing in psychiatry or other medical specializations.



 Medical officer specializations for advancement.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/103150.0/nowap.html


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## CombatDoc

Clueless-stranger,

You are 14 years old. First, finish high school near the top of you class. After that, complete a university degree near the top of your class. Finally, apply to a Canadian medical school and get accepted. ONLY THEN think about MOTP. 

You have approx 8 more years of academic challenges ahead. Good luck.


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## overwatch

Is there a path for officers (I have noted the ones I would like to apply to) who are currently serving to become a medical officer. For example, after 2 years into full time service, I would like to apply to medical school in Canada. Through my own academic merits (GPA, MCAT, extracurriculars) I am accepted, would the CAF then allow me to pursue medical school if I want to become a medical officer? Or would I have to finish my obligatory service and then apply, become accepted, and reapply for the medical officer position.

Also more specifically, would commanding officers not give reference letters, etc. if I asked for it since the application process at many schools requires it?


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## WEng87

What trade are you currently? Are you at OFP?


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## mariomike

WEng87 said:
			
		

> What trade are you currently?





			
				overwatch said:
			
		

> I will be applying to Aerospace Control Officer occupation as a direct entry applicant


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## 306FL306

Greetings!

I am brand new to this forum and could use help from current and past MOTP officers.

My question is regarding the summers during MOTP. The CAF website says med students enrolled in MOTP must work during the summers shadowing a CAF medical officer. However, there are no CAF medical officers in the province where I live. 

Does that mean I would be "deployed" during the summer to work at a CAF clinic??

If so, I will have to stay away from my family (wife and 1 year old child) and will have to pay rent during the summer. This is not only a financial burden but it also means I won't have family time at all during the 6 years of medical school.

Could anyone shed some light into this darkness for me?

Cheers!


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## PuckChaser

If you're worried about being away from your family for a few months every summer, how are you going to tolerate 6-9 month deployments overseas once you're fully trained?


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## sarahsmom

306FL306 said:
			
		

> Greetings!
> However, there are no CAF medical officers in the province where I live.



How are there no MOs in the province where you live? There are MOs in every province. Maybe not at every base, but definitely in every province.


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## Blackadder1916

paleomedic said:
			
		

> . . .  There are MOs in every province. Maybe not at every base, but definitely in every province.



Maybe he lives in Prince Edward Island?  Since I would assume that Medical Officers (_Reg Force ones that he could shadow in a military practise, anyway_) would be located where there are CF medical and dental centres and detachments, if there are no CF Health Services facilities listed for a particular province then the likelihood of an MO being there is low.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/health-support/medical-dental-centers.html


> Canadian medical and dental centres
> •Alberta
> •British Columbia
> •Manitoba
> •New Brunswick
> •Newfoundland and Labrador
> •Northwest Territories
> •Nova Scotia
> •Ontario
> •Quebec
> •Saskatchewan


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## CombatDoc

306FL306 said:
			
		

> My question is regarding the summers during MOTP. The CAF website says med students enrolled in MOTP must work during the summers shadowing a CAF medical officer. However, there are no CAF medical officers in the province where I live.
> 
> Does that mean I would be "deployed" during the summer to work at a CAF clinic??
> 
> If so, I will have to stay away from my family (wife and 1 year old child) and will have to pay rent during the summer. This is not only a financial burden but it also means I won't have family time at all during the 6 years of medical school.


In some medical school programs, the only summers off are between first and second year, and second and third year. During your two year residency training there are no summers off. 

So, for two summers you could work at a CF clinic. This should be at no cost to you, as typically your lodgings and meals would be covered. Typically, this should also be the province where you are attending medical school, and maybe even the city (e.g. Halifax, Toronto, Ottawa, Edmonton, etc).

Maybe one of the medical recruiters here can comment on the specifics of summer employment during the MOTP program, though, and confirm the details.


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## da1root

Didn't realize there was an MOTP thread within the RMC, ROTP board.

While in Medical School (years 1-4) typically BMOQ and HSO SOC are completed; sometimes some OJT opportunities are there.  Once residency starts it's no longer on a 1-Sep to 30-April time frame as most residencies start in July.  So in year 4 of Med School there's only 2 months between school and residency and during that time there are exams to be completed.

Being that this is after the recruitment process it's really outside the perview of a Recruiter what someone would do, but being that I'm heavily involved with the MOTP Surge 2018 campaign I will have a look at all my documents on Monday and provide an non-official informed response.


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