# On the Job Training / Experience (OJT / OJE) [Merged]



## albeit (22 Jun 2010)

Hey all,

Just coming out of the woodwork to make my first post, and I want give a big cheers to everyone here for providing the best source of information for the Canadian Forces I've found yet.

My question concerns OJT for pilots while waiting for a slot in flight training. I understand the wait times can be quite long and unless you are proactive and request additional responsibility from your unit, you do not do all that much. I've read on these boards and other places that you don't have to just sit around during OJT - you can go to school for a graduate degree, or attend other courses that the Canadian Forces offers. 

Is this correct? If I were to go to school during OJT for a master's degree, would I have to still 'live' with the unit or would I be able to live elsewhere and check-in with the unit periodically? As for other courses, what courses would these be, and is it a pretty standard thing to do while in OJT? 

Thanks for any help!

P.S. I've searched the boards for information, but all I can find are random comments and no concrete help, but if you are able to pull up a relevant thread I'd be much obliged!


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## Jorkapp (23 Jun 2010)

There's plenty to do while on OJT/OJE (being stuck on it myself):

Military Courses:
OPME, Second Language Training, Air Force Officer Development - You'll have to do these eventually anyway, so get them done while you've got free time. OPME and AFOD are offered DL, and you can often work on them during work hours. I don't have links off hand, but OPME is done through RMC, and AFOD is through CFSAS (17 Wing). 

If you get the chance, there are other qualifications you can usually get locally - Presiding Officer, Harassment Advisor, etc. that come up every now and again. You might be put on the bottom of the list as a 2Lt, but by no means does that mean you won't get on the courses. These staff qualifications are good to have.

Take a look at your Wing's Ground Training unit, they should offer courses every now and again that can kill time. Don't forget about your IBTS either. Talk to your unit training coordinator, as the full IBTS set (FA, C7, 9mm, Nav/Comm) can easily occupy about 2 weeks.

Heck, if you're feeling lucky, there's residential courses you can try your hand at. Off the top of my head, there's Radiation Safety Officer, General Safety Officer, Basic Parachutist, and lots more. Look up various schools on the DWAN and see what's out there. 


Civilian Courses/Post-grad:
There's nothing stopping you from doing these on your own time and dime. You might be able to go to RMC for a Masters in Military Studies (or whatever it's called), but don't count on it if you already have obligatory service. If you're doing some courses via DL, your supervisor may allow you to study during work hours if you have nothing else to do, but don't sign up for a course counting on that.


Work:
Take advantage of small taskings that come up. Usually there's lots of staff work that needs to get done, which while mundane, is at least something to do. I'd wager someone, somewhere in your building is behind on filing, or needs a filing cabinet reorganized. 

Put your talents to use. You'd be amazed what skills are in demand at various places. Depending on your education and/or interests, you might be able to get assigned to another section/unit to put said talents to use. Getting such a job can be incredibly rewarding, especially if you achieve something concrete for the unit. 

If all else fails, study the regulations and relevant publications. A good knowledge of those is essential if/when you become a supervisor. 


After hours:
Find yourself a hobby or project for after hours. Going from the office to playing video games in the shacks every day of the week gets old real fast. Get involved in the community both on-base and off-base, there's got to be at least a few clubs one can take an interest in. If not, feel free to form a club and put your leadership skills to use.


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## TimBit (23 Jun 2010)

Plenty of excellent advice.

Anyone care to comment on the chances someone on OJT might have to do anything CBRN-related, i.e. unit CBRN O?


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## Jorkapp (23 Jun 2010)

TimBit said:
			
		

> Plenty of excellent advice.
> 
> Anyone care to comment on the chances someone on OJT might have to do anything CBRN-related, i.e. unit CBRN O?



A key influence will be your unit's budget for such things. To send you to Borden will cost your unit a good chunk of change: Plane tickets, TD, R&Q, etc. If they've got money to burn, who knows. You can put in a memo to request to go on TD/Course. The worst they'll say is no.

That said, if you're already at Borden, I would say chances are pretty good.


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## albeit (26 Jun 2010)

Guy Incognito, thanks for the response, exactly what I was looking for!


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## brian_k (28 Jun 2010)

Tips for surviving long haul OJTing:
Avoid just hanging out at the office, you will get stuck with random, pointless tasks. Take the in-house OPME courses to get them all done at once. Get on as many exercises/ops as possible, but this can be tough sometimes. Take as many courses as possible, they don't even need to be relevant. Some guys here took the Ships Team Diver course. It's going to get painfully long so keep yourself busy. The word is that the waits are starting to get better so I think the worst of the OJT waits are over.

BTW, where are you getting posted.


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## skrob (23 Apr 2012)

I have a question regarding OJT:  I just got back from aircrew selection (passed for Pilot and AEC) and am curious about where I could be headed for OJT following BMOQ, should I receive an offer of course.  I live close to Saskatoon which has a recruiting center and I believe a couple of Reserve Units.  I've read that since my dependents (wife/daughter) live here, that I will return here for OJT, unless I request otherwise.

The only other base close-by that I know of would be Dundurn (1 hour) and then Moose Jaw (3 hours).  Does anyone know if I could request my OJT to be at the RC (I'm not bilingual)?  If not, can I do OJT at a Reserve Unit?  Thanks.


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## estoguy (24 Apr 2012)

Some good OJT info in this thread... http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/94886.0.html

The way I'm understanding it, they will take your preferences into account, but ultimately, they will send you where they need/want you... much like anything else in the military.


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## skrob (24 Apr 2012)

Thanks estoguy.

There sure doesn't seem to be a shortage of what you can do on OJT/OJE, but I'm still curious if anyone knows whether Saskatoon or Dundurn is even an option for OJT/OJE.

I realize the military puts you where they need you, I was just under the impression that OJT/OJE was more of a "let's put this guy somewhere so we don't have to pay him to do nothing at home" type situation. I'm probably out to lunch here but I am completely new to this, so thanks for your patience.


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## lstpierre (24 Apr 2012)

On my BMOQ, every married person got sent back to where their spouse was for OJT, myself included. Since OJTs are pretty much being babysat as unqualified members, they typically won't have any reason to need you anywhere else... Unless the stapler in Petawawa is getting dangerously low in staples or something.


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## PMedMoe (24 Apr 2012)

lstpierre said:
			
		

> On my BMOQ, every married person got sent back to where their spouse was for OJT, myself included.



I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that all the spouses were at (or near) a location where OJT was feasible.

Clearly, if someone's spouse is not, then they will not be sent there.  Correct?


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## skrob (24 Apr 2012)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that all the spouses were at (or near) a location where OJT was feasible.
> 
> Clearly, if someone's spouse is not, then they will not be sent there.  Correct?



Yes, I guess that's my real question here - is OJT in Saskatoon possible.  I'm planning on asking the RC, but I don't know if they'll be able to tell me that.

Thanks for your replies.


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## snyper21 (18 Sep 2012)

I'm currently on BOTC at St Jean for pilot, and had a question about OJT. I was wondering if your location for Ojt has any bearing on what type of stream you'll go through. For example, I would like to be close to family, so the St. Hubert squadron would be great. On the other hand, I would love to fly fighters. By choosing a helicopter squadron as a Ojt location, would that decrease my 'competitiveness' to get accepted to the fighter stream, compared to someone that spent their Ojt days at cold lake/bagotville? Or it's your performance on course the only factor they consider?

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## aesop081 (18 Sep 2012)

snyper21 said:
			
		

> I was wondering if your location for Ojt has any bearing on what type of stream you'll go through.



None whatsoever.


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## jpr (19 Sep 2012)

from my understanding you may be lucky just to get to a squadron for OJT. I was told by a friend that of ~20 ROTP guys, only 3 went to operational squadrons including himself (and yes, they had a freakin' blast, what with logging time in CF-18s and Griffons).


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## jdl902 (10 Sep 2014)

I'll see if I can breathe some life into an old post since I've still got 11 months of OJT ahead of me...

I'm still stumbling around the DWAN and don't have it figured out yet.  As a follow-up to Guy Incognito's post how do I "Look up various schools on the DWAN"?

I'm also wondering what's the "full IBTS set (FA, C7, 9mm, Nav/Comm)"?  I assume I have C7 from BMOQ (joke that it was) and have signed up for 9mm at the range; what are and how do I sign up for the other 2?  How do I check when these ratings expire?

Any info would be appreciated.  I'm doing my OJT at DRDC, in an office full of civies, so I'm a bit in the wilderness trying to figure these things out.


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## Eye In The Sky (10 Sep 2014)

jdl902 said:
			
		

> I'll see if I can breathe some life into an old post since I've still got 11 months of OJT ahead of me...
> 
> I'm still stumbling around the DWAN and don't have it figured out yet.  As a follow-up to Guy Incognito's post how do I "Look up various schools on the DWAN"?



What schools are you looking for?  CFSAS, CFSSAT are on the 17 Wing/AFTC site.  CFSSAR is on the Comox one.  If you said what one(s) you are looking for, that would help.  The DWAN search engine isn't the best, but you could also just try searching for the school you are looking for or course you are looking for.  Example BEW, which is delivered by CFSAS.



> I'm also wondering what's the "full IBTS set (FA, C7, 9mm, Nav/Comm)"?  I assume I have C7 from BMOQ (joke that it was) and have signed up for 9mm at the range; what are and how do I sign up for the other 2?  How do I check when these ratings expire?
> 
> Any info would be appreciated.  I'm doing my OJT at DRDC, in an office full of civies, so I'm a bit in the wilderness trying to figure these things out.



Some of them you can find when you log into EMAA and go to the My Readiness part.  Our currencies (LRP) are also tracked on a separate program on the high-side.

Full IBTS depends some on your unit and perhaps trade.  Aircrew (where I am...) no longer fire C7, just 9mm.  I think most groundcrew/support folks fire C7 not 9mm.

I am not sure if you are asking what the full set of IBTS is, or what IBTS itself is.  IBTS = Individual Battle Task Standards.  Call it 'individual trg' each pers does.  Different currencies have different time requirements, some are valid for 1 year, some 3 years etc.  IBTS for RCAF usually means the following trg at the WRTF and other Wing units:

- FA and CPR
- Nav & Comms 
- CBRND (C & T)
- Foreign Weapons
- 9mm and/or C7
- PFET

On top of that, if you log into AFIILE and search "IBTS" or "DRTSET" there is a bunch of online courses/trg we also have to complete such as Media Awareness, ETHAR, CAC, RECCE, etc.  I think there are about 10 of those we had to do recently.- 

Might be worth contacting the Wing Readiness Trg Flight at the Wing closest to you, they should be able to assist you in determining what you need and how to get it.  DRDC...hmmm...maybe 8 Wing Trenton WRTF?

Fire off a PM to me if you have anything specific, etc.


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## WFT32 (24 Jul 2016)

Do you get paid during OJT?


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## George Wallace (24 Jul 2016)

WFT32 said:
			
		

> Do you get paid during OJT?



Only if you have been enroled into the Canadian Armed Forces.


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## ssrb653 (13 Feb 2018)

Hello everyone! I am gonna try to revive this thread. I am planning on joining as AEC and I am interested in joining the weapons streams and then try to get a posting in space ops. Given the general career path I am trying to plot I wanted some advice. Would the location of OJT matter. I want to be posted in Montreal because it is where I live and I don't want to move for OJT and then move again for training at Cornwall. However, would getting an OJT posting in North Bay would be preferable because I want to join weapons stream as an AEC. 
Would it be better to be posted at an operational base rather than being an OJT in Montreal for example. I read in this thread that OJT location does not have bearing on the pilot stream but I would like to know specifically for AEC. 
As a person interested in AEC weapons stream and space ops would anyone have recommendation where would be the best place to do OJT?
I am also wondering do the forces pay for 2LT to move for OJT's? (I am under the impression they only pay for the move after you are operational i.e. LT)
If anyone can give me there input on this I would be pretty grateful. 

Thanks


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## eptam (18 Apr 2018)

Similar to some of the other questions posted in this topic:

-Which post-BMOQ posting options for OJT are available / likely for married officers living midway between Calgary & Edmonton? I'm waiting on an offer for the pilot occupation, and would like to move my family to Moose Jaw (which I understand would be at my own expense) should I receive the offer. Is there a way to arrange the MJ posting, and if so, how would one go about that? Otherwise, would the default be a posting to Edmonton or Calgary? Any relevant advice or direction would be appreciated.

Thank you for the great content on this forum.

Regards,

     -eptam


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## eptam (8 Mar 2019)

Further to my previous post re: posting scenarios. (and for anyone interested, I got posted to Edmonton).

Does anyone know if it is possible to split OJT during the week:
2 days at a reserve unit (that doesn't employ my occupation), doing administrative/other work, and
3 days at my normal unit?

The reason I'm asking is because I'd like to volunteer with the air cadets sqn that my son is planning to join when he turns 12, but as it is on Tuesday evenings, the 2-hour one-way drive makes it challenging to go back & forth during the week. Thus, if possible, I'd work 2 days near home, getting cross-training on another trade, and 3 days at my normal unit.

Thank you!

Respectfully,

     -eptam


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## RedcapCrusader (8 Mar 2019)

eptam said:
			
		

> Further to my previous post re: posting scenarios. (and for anyone interested, I got posted to Edmonton).
> 
> Does anyone know if it is possible to split OJT during the week:
> 2 days at a reserve unit (that doesn't employ my occupation), doing administrative/other work, and
> ...



Staff a memo up your chain of command. 

Worst thing they'll say is no.


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## MotherGoose (16 Jun 2020)

I did my enrollment over Skype in May for ACSO; just waiting on a BMOQ date now. I'm trying to make arrangements for my kid (separated) and my belongings, but need a little more info. 

1) I found this thread on reddit yesterday. https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/comments/5xo8yf/any_recommendations_for_air_force_base/ 

Are these the only options for ACSO OJT: Winnipeg, Greenwood, Comox, Shearwater, Trenton.
Could I OJT in Wainwright, where my daughter lives with ex-spouse?


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## dapaterson (16 Jun 2020)

MotherGoose said:
			
		

> I did my enrollment over Skype in May for ACSO; just waiting on a BMOQ date now. I'm trying to make arrangements for my kid (separated) and my belongings, but need a little more info.
> 
> 1) I found this thread on reddit yesterday. https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/comments/5xo8yf/any_recommendations_for_air_force_base/
> 
> ...



To the best of my knowledge, there are no aircraft permanently stationed in Wainwright, and thus no air units to be employed with.  The intent of OJT/OJE is to give exposure to your career field, and provide you with an environment where you can learn from others in your field.  Wainwright would not offer you that environment.


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## MotherGoose (16 Jun 2020)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> To the best of my knowledge, there are no aircraft permanently stationed in Wainwright, and thus no air units to be employed with.  The intent of OJT/OJE is to give exposure to your career field, and provide you with an environment where you can learn from others in your field.  Wainwright would not offer you that environment.



Great, thank you. Does that mean Cold Lake would be an option?


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## dapaterson (16 Jun 2020)

In theory perhaps, but the majority of ACSOs are employed with maritime helicopters, ISR (Auroras) and transport, so the most probable locations would be the bases you previously listed.  I do not know how large the ACSO community is in Cold Lake.


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## MotherGoose (16 Jun 2020)

Excellent, thank you so much.


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## Eye In The Sky (16 Jun 2020)

However, don't be hesitant to ask for an OJE placement that 'works' for your QOL, as well.  Example, if you have shared custody, etc.  This also can become a factor if there are long delays in waiting for courses;  I've recently (March of this year) requested and had a member sent back from a Sqn to a unit closer to their NOK (allowing the mbr to reside with their spouse while waiting initial occupation training), because of the QOL/financial implications factors outweighing the 'benefit' of OJE at a fleet they could end up on.   This factor _may_ be considered with more weight now, with the impact on trg that COVID has and may had;  wait times for coursing _could_ lengthen for ACSOs.  

OJE will give you some exposure to some of the aspects of a flying Sqn if you are at one, but I can tell you it is challenging at times to gainfully employ many BTL types at flying Sqn's as well.  

Ask for where you'd like with the necessary details of why;  the worst that you can get it "no".   :2c:


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## MotherGoose (16 Jun 2020)

Eye In The Sky said:
			
		

> However, don't be hesitant to ask for an OJE placement that 'works' for your QOL, as well.  Example, if you have shared custody, etc.  This also can become a factor if there are long delays in waiting for courses;  I've recently (March of this year) requested and had a member sent back from a Sqn to a unit closer to their NOK (allowing the mbr to reside with their spouse while waiting initial occupation training), because of the QOL/financial implications factors outweighing the 'benefit' of OJE at a fleet they could end up on.   This factor _may_ be considered with more weight now, with the impact on trg that COVID has and may had;  wait times for coursing _could_ lengthen for ACSOs.
> 
> OJE will give you some exposure to some of the aspects of a flying Sqn if you are at one, but I can tell you it is challenging at times to gainfully employ many BTL types at flying Sqn's as well.
> 
> Ask for where you'd like with the necessary details of why;  the worst that you can get it "no".   :2c:



Thanks for all this info. That's what I figured. It would certainly be ideal, but I don't want to get my (or my daughter's) hopes up.


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## Eye In The Sky (17 Jun 2020)

MotherGoose said:
			
		

> Thanks for all this info. That's what I figured. It would certainly be ideal, but I don't want to get my (or my daughter's) hopes up.



Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Good luck!


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