# Cadet use of C7s



## ryanmann356 (27 Aug 2005)

If anyone is wondering why cadets didnt get to use the C7s this year during their summer training the reason is that some general in Ottowa put an OHP of what a range should look like over pictures of the ranges and they didnt math up so they ordered the closing of the ranges leaving us feeling shafted.  I was wondering what you people thought of this


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## GGHG_Cadet (27 Aug 2005)

I know in Blackdown the CLI companies got to use the C7 for familiarization training.


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## q_1966 (27 Aug 2005)

ryanmann356 said:
			
		

> If anyone is wondering why cadets didnt get to use the C7s this year during their summer training the reason is that some general in *Ottowa* put an OHP of what a range should look like over pictures of the ranges and they didnt *math* up so they ordered the closing of the ranges leaving us feeling shafted.   I was wondering what you people thought of this



get your spelling right, for one and where exactly did you get this information?


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## Michael OLeary (27 Aug 2005)

And exactrly which rifle ranges are you referring to?


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## q_1966 (27 Aug 2005)

I know Vernon's Range is closed down, (A range that has been good for 20 to 30 years) because the lease land on the other side of the Hill (A very very big hill / mini mountain) was being used and/or somebody raised a stink that if a cadet might fire a round over the hill it would go out of DND Property and there would be problems (Now you and me both know that will only happen If Cdt. Bloggins starts shooting at birds!) 

(I dont know how accurate this information regarding why Vernon closed its range)

Now im happy I got to fire the C7, but im still mad that other youth didnt get that same opportunity.

Edit: Ok im not really mad...Just Disapointed


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## Fry (27 Aug 2005)

Ah, memories of the good ol 303's with the 22 insert... Heavy buggers!


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## Burrows (27 Aug 2005)

ryanmann356 said:
			
		

> If anyone is wondering why cadets didnt get to use the C7s this year during their summer training the reason is that some general in Ottowa put an OHP of what a range should look like over pictures of the ranges and they didnt math up so they ordered the closing of the ranges leaving us feeling shafted.   I was wondering what you people thought of this


  Well lets see.  I would hardly call closing a range because it didn't match an overhead idiotic. Now...if some ranges were looked at using a chart and they lacked safety features then yes they should be closed.

I'm sure if the cadets didn't get to shoot they would feel sad...But would you rather feel sad, or be dead.





			
				GGHG_Cadet said:
			
		

> I know in Blackdown the CLI companies got to use the C7 for familiarization training.


 Aha! Some cadets did fire C7's.

As far as this topic has seen only the range at Vernon was closed because the people on the other side of the mountain could be hurt.  This would have something to do with regulations.  If something were to happen the forces would be blamed.

So yeah yeah you didn't get to fire the C7.  Life goes on. Ruck up and soldier on.

By the way.  I'm sure the general in *Ottawa* wouldn't appreciate you badmouthing a descision they made for other peoples safety.


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## ouyin2000 (27 Aug 2005)

ok allow me to clear up some information about the Vernon Army Cadet Summer Training Center Range.

This is direct information from the IC of the C7 Cadre, who was re-assigned to the Standards Dept, which is where i worked.

DND has a new technique for scanning a range to make sure there will be no ricochets, causing injury. They applied this to the Vernon range, and found one tiny little corner where there was a ricochet danger. If you know what the range looks like, from the firing line, it is the far left hand corner behind the Butts, that was deemed unsafe.

They closed down the range, pending another scan after the summer, to all uses, including the C7s and .22s.

The CLI courses were going to conduct the C7 familiarisation training anyways, but that was changed since DND would basically be paying the C7 Cadre to do nothing. Just to teach the cadets, but never actually put any of the training to use.

They managed to find a range out in Salmon Arm for the CL Courses, and CLI Rifle Coach to conduct their .22 shoots.


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## Fishbone Jones (27 Aug 2005)

ryanmann356 said:
			
		

> If anyone is wondering why cadets didnt get to use the C7s this year during their summer training the reason is that *some general in Ottowa put an OHP of what a range should look like over pictures of the ranges and they didnt math up so they ordered the closing of the ranges * leaving us feeling shafted.   I was wondering what you people thought of this



It called "templateing the range".
It should be part of the RSO's duties, but has, normally, already been done by Range Control.
It's done with a clear plastic overlay, placed over a map of the area, that accounts for ricochete, max range of the particular ammo, etc.
If something falls outside the template, it's not safe and is a "No Go".

And remember boys and girls "Safety is a Command responsibility". Except in "extreme" cases, safety should not be comprimised for training.
A General MAY have had the final word, but I doubt if he templated the range.


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## HollywoodHitman (27 Aug 2005)

Amen Recceguy.

I'm going to suggest that the RSO was likely a Sr. NCO in the CF, who re-did the existing template of the range.....Ie. his job. The day a cadet starts questioning someone who is likely Small Arms Qualified in determining whether or not a range is safe, is the day I hang up my soldier suit.

Safety is everyone's responsibility and again, final word is a command function. 

Cadets want to shoot the C7, they can wait until they're 16 and with their parents consent, sign up to their local Army Reserve Unit.

My $.02


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## Sf2 (28 Aug 2005)

no reason why a cadet should be firing a C7 in the first place.  wait for the reserves for that kinda stuff......


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## Fry (28 Aug 2005)

I couldn't agree more. At our very "up to date" 567 Random Air Cadet Squadron, we were lucky if we got to use the air rifles. And personally, from experience, I don't think cadets should be allowed to use anything more powerful. I've seen some very... immature people to say the least, who almost shit thier pants when they have to use a gun of any sort.

There's no way some 12 year-old should be messing with a C7 assault rifle!

Leave the C7 where it belongs, and if the cadets wish to use it, let them join the reg force or reserves when they're old enough.

My 2 pennies worth...


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## Whiskey_Dan (28 Aug 2005)

Well I know of some cadet corps that have their reserve units that allow them to take a weekend and do the C7 training, go to the SAT range to make sure all the skills are down pat, then go on range with it. Never seen them have a problem but then again only like MCpl's and up were allowed to do it.

I must agree though that I wouldn't trust a 12 year old with a C7 since most can't even do their laces up correctly.'

My 2 cents.


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## Slim (28 Aug 2005)

Children and assault rifles don't mix.


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## aesop081 (28 Aug 2005)

Have we not danced around this topic and locked the ensuing threads often enough ?

This one is going in the same direction...cadets who want to shoot everthing so they can think they are cool, arguing with guys who's job it is to employ small arms.

my $0.02


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## Sgt_McWatt (28 Aug 2005)

I tend to agree, Wheather you like it or not life is full of disapointments, suck it up and carry on.


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## Sf2 (28 Aug 2005)

now that Mr McWatt has spoken, consider this topic solved.... ^-^


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## Redeye (28 Aug 2005)

I'm reasonably that certain any unit that did this would end up in a very significant world of hurt.  It has always been my understanding that use of the SAT range (never mind real C7s) by non-CF members is a great big No-Go.



			
				Whiskey_Dan said:
			
		

> Well I know of some cadet corps that have their reserve units that allow them to take a weekend and do the C7 training, go to the SAT range to make sure all the skills are down pat, then go on range with it. Never seen them have a problem but then again only like MCpl's and up were allowed to do it.
> 
> I must agree though that I wouldn't trust a 12 year old with a C7 since most can't even do their laces up correctly.'
> 
> My 2 cents.


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## Slim (28 Aug 2005)

Gentlemen

I see no use in discussing this further.

Locked

Slim


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