# Canadian Chinook Crash 15 (16?) May 11 - all crew/pax survived



## Strike (16 May 2011)

Shared with all the usual caveats:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5htDtZI4X_6RB61ZLIPqqZ7Fbm9Zg?docId=6860247


> Canadian helicopter crashes on landing in Afghanistan; four soldiers injured
> 
> By Colin Perkel, The Canadian Press – 48 minutes ago
> 
> ...





_*mod edit to thread title to indicate all survived*_


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## krustyrl (16 May 2011)

Good to hear all survived, speedy recovery to the injured.


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## dinicthus (16 May 2011)

I always find it very heartening when, in the midst of all the mayhem of war, the good guys got near, but escaped the worst possible outcome.


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## Good2Golf (16 May 2011)

Wishing a speedy recovery to the seriously injured soldier.


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## The Gues-|- (16 May 2011)

No thanks to the embedded journalist for breaking the story before the troops had the opportunity to notify their families.  Anything for a story eh!

  Speedy recovery!


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## vonGarvin (16 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> No thanks to the embedded journalist for breaking the story before the troops had the opportunity to notify their families.  Anything for a story eh!
> 
> Speedy recovery!


I'm fairly certain that the timelines were followed.  The press is normally pretty good at respecting those timelines.



But this is GOOD news: nobody died.  Speedy recovery to those who were hurt!


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## The Bread Guy (16 May 2011)

Here's wishing a speedy recovery to the injured.  

P.S. - Taliban claims responsibility (see attached), alleging everyone killed.


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## Jarnhamar (16 May 2011)

I'm not huge ont he OMG OPSEC but if I was doing things like landing under moonlight in a remote part's of the Panjwaii district  and shit I don't think I would want the press releasing my name but that's just me.  I made a point NOT to talk to the media, let along drop my name.


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## Strike (16 May 2011)

Grimaldus said:
			
		

> I'm not huge ont he OMG OPSEC but if I was doing things like landing under moonlight in a remote part's of the Panjwaii district  and shit I don't think I would want the press releasing my name but that's just me.  I made a point NOT to talk to the media, let along drop my name.



As a member of the PA branch, may I just say  :


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## Jarnhamar (16 May 2011)

Maybe I'm out to lunch but I still don't like my name splashed across the media. I took 5 minutes and found out quite a bit about this fellow
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=171900213

Obviously as a PA type you're more pro media then a nobody grunt like me. I'll just steer clear and let some chatty cathy do the talking 

Pretty wild that everyone made it out though. When I first heard we had one go down I thought the worst.


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## The Bread Guy (16 May 2011)

The latest from the Taliban Info-Machine - now that they know it was Canadians aboard, they've edited their claim of responsibility.  Still claiming everyone was killed or wounded, though.


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## McG (16 May 2011)

milnews.ca said:
			
		

> Still claiming everyone was killed or wounded, though.


It actually claims everyone was killed _and_ wounded.  That is a very odd statement.  Their PAO should be fired.


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## midget-boyd91 (16 May 2011)

MCG said:
			
		

> It actually claims everyone was killed _and_ wounded.



Now that's what I call the ultimate form of multitasking... Killed and wounded at the same time.


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## SoldierInAYear (16 May 2011)

I hope they have a fast recovery!


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## Ex-Dragoon (16 May 2011)

Is it for sure it was a Canadian Chinook that went down could it have been the US etc?


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## Strike (16 May 2011)

Ex-Dragoon said:
			
		

> Is it for sure it was a Canadian Chinook that went down could it have been the US etc?



Canadian crew in a Canadian (former US) Chinook.  Been chatting with people over there about it.


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## Ex-Dragoon (16 May 2011)

Strike said:
			
		

> Canadian crew in a Canadian (former US) Chinook.  Been chatting with people over there about it.



Ok thanks.


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## The Gues-|- (17 May 2011)

Technoviking said:
			
		

> I'm fairly certain that the timelines were followed.  The press is normally pretty good at respecting those timelines.
> 
> 
> 
> But this is GOOD news: nobody died.  Speedy recovery to those who were hurt!



I'm completely certain the story was on cbc before any troops had made it back from the crash site.


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## Strike (17 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> I'm completely certain the story was on cbc before any troops had made it back from the crash site.



Still, the media wouldn't release the story before being given the thumbs up from the CF-side.  Since there were no deaths there's not as much of a requirement to wait for people to contact families.  I would hazard a guess that the media didn't release the story until those who were flown back to KAF for treatment had a chance to call someone.

An incident like this doesn't warrant the same time delay as something the resulted in a death.


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## vonGarvin (17 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> I'm completely certain the story was on cbc before any troops had made it back from the crash site.


Trololololol.


If that is the case, then how did the embedded reporter (at the crash site) get back to file the story?  And make it to the wire?  And be published?  I mean, there isn't some goof in the CBC with his fingers on the keyboard, waiting on the home row, as his direct link from Afghanistan calls him on the Red Phone tm, ready to illustrate once again that we are in a losing mission?


The reporters there know the deal.  If they don't play by the rules, they will get escorted to the main gate and told to have a nice day.


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## Good2Golf (17 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> I'm completely certain the story was on cbc before any troops had made it back from the crash site.



If that was the case, then the proper course of action to address the issue would be to pass it up through your chain of command, not to allude to the fact on a public forum...


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## The Bread Guy (17 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> I'm completely certain the story was on cbc before any troops had made it back from the crash site.


If you read the stories closely, you'll see the reporter on the helicopter was from the Canadian Press, _not_ the CBC.  I doubt the CBC had it before CP if a CP reporter was in the accident.


			
				Technoviking said:
			
		

> .... there isn't some goof in the CBC with his fingers on the keyboard, waiting on the home row, as his direct link from Afghanistan calls him on the Red Phone tm, ready to illustrate once again that we are in a losing mission? ....


Technically, _if_ the reporter had a sat phone, and phoned into the newsroom right then, there _is_ a capability to get the story on the air/on the wire tout suite.  That said, I have to agree with this:


			
				Technoviking said:
			
		

> The reporters there know the deal.  If they don't play by the rules, they will get escorted to the main gate and told to have a nice day.


And in this case, the CP reporter is FAR from being a rookie just out of J-school - further agreeing with TV....


			
				Technoviking said:
			
		

> Trololololol.


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## The Gues-|- (17 May 2011)

Good2Golf said:
			
		

> If that was the case, then the proper course of action to address the issue would be to pass it up through your chain of command, not to allude to the fact on a public forum...


Allude to the fact that a reporter reported a story before he should have? on a public forum?  As oppose to releasing the story on national broadcasting system  lol   Well thank you for that direction of ethics Good2Golf should I put my heals together?! Did you go learn those course of ethics in post secondary? Except there would likely be little need of doing this since everyone that mattered would of been watching already.  It's a public forum.





			
				Technoviking said:
			
		

> Trololololol.
> 
> 
> If that is the case, then how did the embedded reporter (at the crash site) get back to file the story?  And make it to the wire?  And be published?  I mean, there isn't some goof in the CBC with his fingers on the keyboard, waiting on the home row, as his direct link from Afghanistan calls him on the Red Phone tm, ready to illustrate once again that we are in a losing mission?


   
This isn't the 80's any more.


Regardless I didn't come on her to mutter pointless shit and waste my time as you can see from my number of posts beside my name... so I'll let the armchair's sit back and critic to gain milpoints.


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## Strike (17 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> Regardless I didn't come on her to mutter pointless shit and waste my time as you can see from my number of posts beside my name... so I'll let the armchair's sit back and critic to gain milpoints.



To give you an idea of what happens when a story is filled from Afg, directly to the network, without confirmation that permission has been granted...

Because the networks understand how important it is to keep up relations with deployed CF elements, they try not to bite the hand that feeds them and will contact the MLO to get confirmation.  If they don't do this and release a story without confirmation that OpSec won't be breached, the CF tends to get a bit annoyed and will not only send the offending reporter home, but will not be as willing to accept a reporter from that network on future embedding opportunities.  The network is then stuck gathering info from their "pool."  Not the most of ideal situations for them.


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## Jarnhamar (17 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> Good2Golf should I put my heals together?! Did you go learn those course of ethics in post secondary?


 :facepalm:


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## Good2Golf (17 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> Allude to the fact that a reporter reported a story before he should have? on a public forum?  As oppose to releasing the story on national broadcasting system  lol   Well thank you for that direction of ethics Good2Golf should I put my heals together?! Did you go learn those course of ethics in post secondary? Except there would likely be little need of doing this since everyone that mattered would of been watching already.  It's a public forum.



In your haste, Gues-|-, you missed the salient point, which was that if a reporter had conducted themselves in a manner that was counter to the embed policy and that you had witnessed it, then you should address the issue through your chain of command.  

If you choose to post on a public forum afterwards that you believe a story was made public before the crew and passengers made it back from the crash site, with whatever implications you intended, then that's your own choice.  It was the previous point to which my comments referred.

On a side note, you might consider lowering your confrontational tone a bit, as no one here was critiquing you personally.  You seem to have taken offence where none was intended.
  

Regards
G2G


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## The Bread Guy (17 May 2011)

The Gues-|- said:
			
		

> Regardless I didn't come on her to mutter pointless crap and waste my time as you can see from my number of posts beside my name... so I'll let the armchair's sit back and critic to gain milpoints.


Yeah, that's precisely why we post here....  :


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## Jarnhamar (17 May 2011)

You can always tell when someone has thin skin. They start with the personal jabs, correcting spelling, "armchair generalling" etc..


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## vonGarvin (17 May 2011)

The guys?  Are they recovering well?  I sure hope so.  And I hope that the pilot is getting proper counselling.  Not as in "You messed up, boy!" but as in making sure that his state of mind is taken care of.  I could not imagine the potential for a feeling of "guilt", even if there was no fault on his or her part.


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## Occam (17 May 2011)

At the risk of fanning the flames, I think Gues-|- is correct.  I would be very curious to know what time clearance was given to let the story fly.


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## 57Chevy (18 May 2011)

shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Canadian Forces, US Marines lift damaged Chinook to safety
Cpl Rashaun James

CAMP BASTION, Afghanistan –Canadian and U.S. forces safely recovered a downed Canadian Forces CH-47 Chinook helicopter during a tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel mission in Kandahar province, Afghanistan, May 17.

Utilizing a trio CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters from Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 461, with assistance from 2nd Marine Logistics Group’s helicopter support team, the Canadian and American team was able to transport the damaged aircraft back to its home at Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan.

“We showed up with two aircraft to do the lift in case one had a maintenance issue during the mission,” said Maj. Jade Steward-Campbell a CH-53E pilot and HMH-461’s maintenance officer. “A third CH-53 served as our tactical support aircraft, which launched out with the HST to rig the CH-47 for pick-up, and to transport all the debris from the crash and Canadian Forces personnel back to Kandahar.”

To ensure the mission was carried out safely, a pair of Canadian Forces attack helicopters provided close-air support during the mission, while Canadian Leopard 2 tanks provided ground security.

“There were also Canadians who worked in conjunction with the HST,” explained Staff Sgt. Peter Montalvo, a CH-53E crew chief and weapons and tactics instructor with HMH-461. “They had the manuals for the Chinook and were the subject matter experts. We took our cue from them and working together we were able to bring the aircraft back to Kandahar”

Prior to launching the mission, the HMH-461 planners had a number of factors to consider. 

“Our maintenance section had to strip over two tons of unnecessary parts off the CH-53s in order to enable them to execute this lift,” Steward-Campbell, a Carson City, Nev., native said. “Almost everything, with the exception of the engines and rotor blades, had to be removed from the aircraft with only eight hours notice.”

Decreasing the weight of the aircraft was not the only factor taken into consideration before the mission.

“The zone was extremely challenging for us, mostly due to the dust,” Steward-Campbell said. “We had reduced the weight of the aircraft, so it had sufficient power, but the dust made it difficult to find reference over the ground, but it’s the mission we train for and we accomplished it.”

This mission marks the second time the Marine Corps Air Station New River, N.C., based squadron has been called upon to perform a tactical aircraft recovery during their current deployment to Afghanistan.

“We are the premier TRAP and heavy-lift asset in-theater,” said Montalvo, a Eureka, Calif., native. ”I think this mission went very well. We had multiple agencies and multiple countries working together. We went in with an international effort and got the job done.”

Courtesy Photo:
A Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 461 CH-53E Super Stallion transports a Canadian Forces CH-47 Chinook during a tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel mission in Kandahar Province, Afghanistan, May 17. Utilizing a trio CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters from Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 461, with assistance from 2nd Marine Logistics Group's helicopter support team, the Canadian and American team was able to transport the injured aircraft back to its home at Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan. US Marine Corps Photo by Sgt. Thomas W. Dowd.


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## MrsAlex (20 May 2011)

My fiance was on that crash. Thank God, he came out of it with only scratches, bruises and a sore back. From what I've heard, most injuries were REALLY minor, except for one guy who had a broken leg. They were extremely lucky in their bad luck. I have chills thinking about it. So much things could have gone wrong... even more wrong that is!


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## vonGarvin (20 May 2011)

MrsAlex said:
			
		

> My fiance was on that crash. Thank God, he came out of it with only scratches, bruises and a sore back. From what I've heard, most injuries were REALLY minor, except for one guy who had a broken leg. They were extremely lucky in their bad luck. I have chills thinking about it. So much things could have gone wrong... even more wrong that is!


Glad to hear that he's ok!


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## The Bread Guy (23 Mar 2015)

Bumped with the latest, from the Epilogue of the Flight Safety Investigation Report ....


> .... The night mission called for two CH147D Chinook helicopters to simultaneously insert troops to an unprepared Helicopter Landing Site (HLS) while two CH146 Griffon helicopters provided force protection.  After arriving on scene, the Chinooks manoeuvred around the high ground to the south and established themselves on final approach, with the accident Chinook following the lead aircraft.
> 
> As it landed, the lead Chinook generated a large dustball, which the accident Chinook crew assessed would not jeopardize their approach and landing.  Descending through approximately 30 feet above ground, both pilots lost visual ground references despite their use of night vision goggles.  The landing flare continued until touchdown, at which point the pilots felt an unusual aircraft motion to the right.  Realizing that the aircraft would roll over, the Aircraft Captain tried to take control and salvage the landing as the rest of the occupants braced for the crash.  Once the helicopter came to a rest on its right side, both engines were shut down, and the five crew and 26 passengers egressed.  One passenger sustained serious injuries while eight sustained minor injuries; the helicopter was destroyed.
> 
> ...


.... and from The Canadian Press:


> A helicopter crash that seriously injured a soldier and forced a halt to one of Canada's last combat missions in Afghanistan was the result of pilot error and fuzzy procedures, a long-awaited report concludes.
> 
> The crash on landing in May 2011 in a remote part of Panjwaii district destroyed the $45-million Chinook and left eight others with minor injuries, according to the report released Friday.
> 
> ...


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