# Withheld/passed over information?



## Elorajen (18 May 2009)

When I did my medical, the medic was asking about a situation relating to a past history of depression, he asked what it was about and I told him that it was because of life situation, and infertility issues. I started to say due to a minor medical condition that affects fertility, he glossed over that and carried on the interview. 

It again came up when talking about my multiple pregnancies and complications with those pregnancies and I did mention the condition. 

On completing medical forms, one physician listed this medical condition (that affects fertility). I sent it into the center.

The medic sent me additional forms for my OBGYN to fill out (the medical condition is called "Poly Cystic Ovarian Disease/syndrome - which sounds worse than it is). It's minor in the grand scheme of things, cysts on my ovaries, disrupt hormones affecting fertility. I sent off the proper forms to by OB, no problem, he completed it and sent them back. 

When I called to confirm that they had received everything, the medic was quite accusatory in that I did not disclose the PCOD. I said, yes, I had started to when....blah blah blah...and mentioned it when talking about my complications with my pregnancies.

The crux as well, is that I no longer have the condition even (having babies can reverse it, as well as exercise...which I am doing a lot of) and frankly didn't think having cysts on my ovaries could be a detriment to doing my job. 

What concerns me, is that he thinks that I withheld information. 

I was open with my past bouts of depression, one in 1999 (life events/situational) and one in 2005 (post partum depression) and even a past incorrect diagnosis of Asthma (which I have been to a respiratory therapist to have this mis-diagnosis corrected and have supplied paperwork to that effect). So, of all the things that I could have withheld, it would have been the above, and not the freaking PCOS.

I'm worried that my integrity will be called into question here on the medical portion.  This has been taking a long while in getting my medical cleared up (it took almost 2 months to complete all the information that they wanted for the medical portion). Apparently everything was submitted to Borden April 24. I admit to not having much patience. Even being married to the military, I have a hard time "hurring up and waiting". 

Should I be concerned here? 

I've been as forthright as I can and admit (on reflection) that I should have ensured to mention the PCOS. 

I think I'm mostly venting.....I'm concerned about getting the medical letter of doom. I'm 35, and have a lot of medical history under my belt, but frankly am healthier now than I have been in years. Something about proper diet and exercise I suppose. LOL!


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## Pat_Y (18 May 2009)

probably just wanted to know. They all sound accusatory... that’s there job to get the information out of you. But I am sure that it will not effect your application.

On the other hand the medical gets passed to Ottawa for final review and authorization. So if they look and see all the medical information on you and don’t look at it closely... well that is what I would be worried about. Since the med techs are not actual physicians though they can not tell Ottawa there personal views of your health.(unless it is done during the medical exam)

If you are really worried about this you could go to the CFRC and get a medical form that asks a civilian physician to look at you. This second opinion will allow the people at Ottawa to see that even with all this medical information a physician finds that you are fine and that these problems will not stop you from being able to work in the CF.

Just out of interest what position are you applying for?

Good luck!! Sure there will be no problems
 :cheers:


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## Elorajen (18 May 2009)

Thanks for your response, I'm applying for DEO log officer. I have a degree in psychology, and each and every time we get posted I have a hell of a time finding work in my field. I figure if I can't beat em, join em. LOL! Plus, I run a business, which goes a very long way in the LOG world apparently. I made the decision in Oct 0f 07, but then we got posted last spring, so things were on hold a bit, I wanted to ensure the family was settled and into a routine before I was called away. 

Glad to know that the attitude is the "norm" I wondered if that were the case. He was an older male, and frankly not really happy to be talking girly things to begin with.

My OBGYN sent them a lot of information, plus I sent a copy of my blood results, which show normal hormone levels. So, it should be OK. I'm just getting concerned with the amount of time it seems to be taking. And I worried about his saying that I "hadn't disclosed" the information, which really wasn't the case.  I just don't want there to be miscommunication that will negatively impact my application. 

I've also called the CFRC twice and left messages on the VM of my file manager, with no return call to see if I've been merit listed yet. Kinda freaks me out. Trying not to be a pest. My husband, tells me that the CF does things at their own pace and I need to be patient.  Easier said than done.


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## Pat_Y (18 May 2009)

It really is the case that the CFRC does things at its own pace but giving them a call normally helps grease the wheels. You are not the only person that feels this way. I almost think that it is a way to see who really wants to be there. If someone gives up after not hearing anything for 3 weeks then they don’t want them there anyways type of thing.

And depending how old he is he may not like the whole females in the work place idea... (As bad as that sounds)
And with the CFRC not calling you back I am aware that they just did a huge nation wide switch in regards to filling. They are now filling alphabetically. I was down there a few days ago and they now have 3 people that do file managing A-G / 3 that do H-N and 3 for O-Z. And then broken down again into what area of town you live in. I know it sounds bad but it seems to be working. 

Again something that never seems to stop is the hurry up and wait feeling that I have all the time when dealing with the CFRC. So you are not alone.


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## Elorajen (18 May 2009)

> I almost think that it is a way to see who really wants to be there.



*snort* You're channeling my husband again. He said that it was best that it takes a while because it does weed out the bodies who "jest wanna go kill dem bad guyz". 



> And depending how old he is he may not like the whole females in the work place idea... (As bad as that sounds)



It doesn't sound bad, it sounds like my FIL (ret. 33 years in) who echos those sentiments. I'm used to it. 

I didn't know that they were re-structuring. Again. Will give them a call when I work up the nerve.


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## Pat_Y (18 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> *snort* You're channeling my husband again. He said that it was best that it takes a while because it does weed out the bodies who "jest wanna go kill dem bad guyz".



Aka the Rambo’s of our fine country :gunner:

I was only aware of the restructuring because I was talking to a med tech and my file manager walked by and I talked with her for a while

ha ha they are not going to yell at you. But I guess you do have to wait till Tuesday as it is a holiday today.

Anyways tell me how it goes! good luck  
PS your husband sounds like a smart guy!


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## aesop081 (18 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> Will give them a call when I work up the nerve.



What is there to work up ?

Pick up the phone, call the CFRC, say "This is { insert your name}, i'm just wondering what the status is on my application"

If it was a credit card company and you wanted to know why they were over-charging you, would you have to build up nerves to call and complain ?


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## Elorajen (18 May 2009)

To be frank, I'm afraid that they will tell me that I've been found unfit. I don't deal well with rejection. Once I set my sights on something, I go after it until I meet my goal. I'm a type "A" personality on steroids. Well, not literally steroids. 

I'm already prepared to fight as much as I can to reverse the decision if that does happen, it's just the suspense of not knowing and trying to be patient.

I know I know, then pick up the damn phone.


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## aesop081 (18 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> To be frank, I'm afraid that they will tell me that I've been found unfit.



In the same breath, they could just as well have found you fit for service. Your fear of being found unfit didnt stop you from applying so, IMHO, you need to grow a pair and get on with it.



> I don't deal well with rejection.



Its going to sound rude but....... :crybaby:



> Once I set my sights on something, I go after it until I meet my goal. I'm a type "A" personality on steroids. Well, not literally steroids.



All the more reason for you to get on with it.


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## Elorajen (19 May 2009)

Well, after much telephone tag, I got in touch with the Captain managing my file. I should expect a medical letter soon, it was mailed out on the 11th. The medical section couldn't tell me what for, as they hadn't received it yet, so I have to wait for the letter itself. The W.O. I talked too at the med sect. said that the letter could just be looking for more information, or will at least tell me/clarify why I was considered unfit. And from there I can formulate my game plan. 

I was prepared for this. So, it's not completely soul crushing.  Besides the depression I can't see what they would be flagging me for. And even for that I am prepared to see a psychologist or psychiatrist for evaluation. My life is very different now, compared to 10 years ago.


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## Elorajen (20 May 2009)

So, the letter came today, it was for "recurrent depression". Which I plan on addressing. The first bout was 10 years ago. The second was hormone induced (PPD), which isn't the same type of depression at all, in fact, I was more a raging bitch than depressed - they just classified it as depression. LOL!

I'm actually rather pissed about it. To be fair, I get why they would not consider someone with a history of depression, they can be unpredictible and a danger to themselves and their troops. And frankly I wouldn't even consider joining if I had been dealing with depression for the last 20 years or so.

But not every case is the same. 

To begin with, I sought help - through both counseling and medication - which I am now being penalized for. And secondly, the events that triggered the depression - dealing with a mentally ill parent who tried to kill me multiple times - would make anyone depressed. It's also BEEN 10 years for shit sakes. In that time, a person tends to grow. A lot. Especially with the addition of a degree in psychology and lots of self help books!

I tried calling the medical section today, with no luck in connecting with someone. I guess I wait to see what my options are at getting them to take another look. 

Ugh.


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## the 48th regulator (20 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> So, the letter came today, it was for "recurrent depression". Which I plan on addressing. The first bout was 10 years ago. The second was hormone induced (PPD), which isn't the same type of depression at all, in fact, I was more a raging bitch than depressed - they just classified it as depression. LOL!
> 
> I'm actually rather pissed about it. To be fair, I get why they would not consider someone with a history of depression, they can be unpredictible and a danger to themselves and their troops. And frankly I wouldn't even consider joining if I had been dealing with depression for the last 20 years or so.
> 
> ...




Here is a wild one for ya,

Ever thought of getting your Doctor involved, and maybe help to clarify this for them via a letter?

Just a hint which will save you from annoying the Recruiting centre,  and maybe your Doc can help you understand what "Depression" really is.....


Just my thoughts...

dileas

tess


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## aesop081 (20 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> But not every case is the same.



I'm almost certain that this site is full of stories of people who were rejected and this was followed by what they had to do to get the situation reviewed.

Maybe, just maybe, you should give those stories a read instead of sitting there crying about how unfair it is. I dont give 2 shakes about how its been so long and blah blah blah..........

When you get a hold of the med folks at the CFRC, just do exactly what they tell you..........

Be fully prepared for them to uphold their assesment.


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## Elorajen (20 May 2009)

> this site is full of stories of people who were rejected and this was followed by what they had to do to get the situation reviewed.......you should give those stories a read instead of sitting there crying about how unfair it is.



I've been reading this site for a while, and making use of the search function. I have read what people have done in the past in various situations - from sending in a letter to some unknown person in Ottawa to getting a psych eval. What I will do, is contact the medics and ask *them* what I should do. 

Am I sitting here crying? No.

The *only* reason I followed up with this and gave additional details here, is for people that come after me *looking *for information. I found a grand total of ONE page of results for the word "depression" on a search, and over half of those were talking about depressions in the ground vs a medical condition. I thought the purpose of this site was to provide information to those seeking answers. My bad.



> Ever thought of getting your Doctor involved, and maybe help to clarify this for them via a letter?



That would be a grand idea!  But the military posted us to a province where there are no family doctors available for dependents. We are forced to go to emergency to see a Doctor. Don't worry, I'll manage.



> and maybe your Doc can help you understand what "Depression" really is.....



:

Yeah, cause the BA in Psychology and working for Alberta Mental health before and after said degree left me wondering what depression was. 

I won't bother updating again.


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## the 48th regulator (20 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> That would be a grand idea!  But the military posted us to a province where there are no family doctors available for dependents. We are forced to go to emergency to see a Doctor. Don't worry, I'll manage.



Ah yes, the age old, I am someplace with no Doctor response.

Let me guess, your file is in limbo or missing, as you contacted the Doctor that was helping you at the time....




			
				Elorajen said:
			
		

> Yeah, cause the BA in Psychology and working for Alberta Mental health before and after said degree left me wondering what depression was.




 :  So uhm, BA in Psychology and working for Alberta Mental health you are going to tell me you can not find resources, such as a clinician, that will help you substantiate your state of well being??

Hmmm, okay, I beleive that one....




			
				Elorajen said:
			
		

> I won't bother updating again.




Why, because we did not give you a hug and say "You go girl, you fight that meanie recruiting system, that's stopping you from serving our Dear nation!"

I will retire to Bedlham.....

dileas

tess


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## Elorajen (20 May 2009)

> Ah yes, the age old, I am someplace with no Doctor response.



Says the guy who can simply go to the MIR any time his ass itches. I'm in Greenwood Nova Scotia. The place where in order to get a family physician, you pretty much have to have grown up here, or be coffin chaser and hunt down the Doctor that just lost a patient. Otherwise, it's the ER. Lovely experience.....4 hour wait to be told that they don't have time to fill out stupid government forms with copious eye rolling for good measure. 

But hey, I'm a trooper. I've put up with more than a little BS from the military by being married to it for the last 20 years, I'm sure I can handle a bit more time sitting in a virus infested waiting room to beg a favor from the Doc.  



> BA in Psychology and working for Alberta Mental health you are going to tell me you can not find resources, such as a clinician, that will help you substantiate your state of well being??



1) Alberta is a long way from Nova Scotia. 
2) Working *with* Psychologists, Psychiatrists and Doctors as part of a clinical team is rather different than being their patient. None of my former colleagues could provide such a letter as it would cross quite a few ethical and professional boundaries. 
3) If I were still in Alberta, I could get a referral to someone who had never met or worked with me before, no problemo. See number 1.



> Why, because we did not give you a hug and say "You go girl, you fight that meanie recruiting system, that's stopping you from serving our Dear nation!"



Oh please. 

Why would I want to provide any additional information that may prove to be helpful for other potential new recruits researching the same questions, when it seems that people like you see it as cannon fodder? 

As an aside, I was sent a nice PM asking me to ignore the cantankerous old men and keep updating this thread as a help to others down the road who have the same questions. I'm paraphrasing of course.


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## the 48th regulator (20 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> Says the guy who can simply go to the MIR any time his ass itches. I'm in Greenwood Nova Scotia. The place where in order to get a family physician, you pretty much have to have grown up here, or be coffin chaser and hunt down the Doctor that just lost a patient. Otherwise, it's the ER. Lovely experience.....4 hour wait to be told that they don't have time to fill out stupid government forms with copious eye rolling for good measure.



Nope, says the guy who has had to find clinicians for various OSI's (Loook it up, then again as a member of the mental health community, it shouldnot be hard), and was successful.



			
				Elorajen said:
			
		

> But hey, I'm a trooper. I've put up with more than a little BS from the military by being married to it for the last 20 years, I'm sure I can handle a bit more time sitting in a virus infested waiting room to beg a favor from the Doc.



So, after 20 years experience, your degree, and your work experience you felt that coming here telling your story and deciding to fight the system is the best route to go....



			
				Elorajen said:
			
		

> 1) Alberta is a long way from Nova Scotia.
> 2) Working *with* Psychologists, Psychiatrists and Doctors as part of a clinical team is rather different than being their patient. None of my former colleagues could provide such a letter as it would cross quite a few ethical and professional boundaries.
> 3) If I were still in Alberta, I could get a referral to someone who had never met or worked with me before, no problemo. See number 1.



Who asked to cross ethical lines, find your original Doctor, and get that person to help you.  If they disappeared in a boating adventure in the Bermuda Triangle, your knowledge can help you find the right clinician that can find, and provide weight to the argument that you are well.
  


			
				Elorajen said:
			
		

> Oh please.
> 
> Why would I want to provide any additional information that may prove to be helpful for other potential new recruits researching the same questions, when it seems that people like you see it as cannon fodder?



So now you feel the site's information was not good enough, so you will set the information straight with your life example.  Are you looking for answers or a debate then??



			
				Elorajen said:
			
		

> As an aside, I was sent a nice PM asking me to ignore the cantankerous old men and keep updating this thread as a help to others down the road who have the same questions. I'm paraphrasing of course.




Aww, well there you go, you got your hug.

dileas

tess


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## aesop081 (20 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> I've put up with more than a little BS from the military by being married to it for the last 20 years,



 :crybaby:      :crybaby:

BTW, you are married to your husband.......not the CF.


I hope you get in touch with the CFRC and follow their instructions when it comes to initiating an appeal. I was once posted to Greenwood so if you require assistance, let me know, i have friends in the Valley's medical system. As i said before, be prepared for the CF to uphold its decision but its worth a try right ?


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## Sub_Guy (21 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> I'm 35





			
				Elorajen said:
			
		

> I've put up with more than a little BS from the military by being married to it for the last 20 years



 ???


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## Elorajen (21 May 2009)

Met the husband in Borden when I was 14, he was a reservist when I met him and went reg force when I was 19. Of course this is after being a base brat and the daughter of a base brat...so REALLY the military has been in my life for the last 35 years. Oh yes, and the husbands parents are also military. I'm surrounded by it.

And yes, I'm married to the military. Most (dependent) wives that I've talked to, feel the same way.  We are asked to move across the country and give up careers, good paying jobs, friends family, all for the sake of our husbands and their careers. I suspect that you consider your career in the military, more than just a "job", it's a lifestyle. It's a commitment to serve your country, its in your blood, it's who you are. My husband IS military, and therefore, I am married to it just as much as I am married to him. As with ALL military, the job comes first, the DF&E come second. Why else would they lump family in with the furniture and effects?  But you already knew that. Right?   :-*

You want to split hairs, fine, I've been actually married to the military for 16 years according to the stupid little piece of paper that we were required to get before they'd post ME as part of his DF&E, we had been living together since I was 16. The Military didn't recognize common law at that point. Happy?  : 

+++++Onto the meat of the issue for those looking for answers+++++++++++++++++++

Contacted the CFRC, next step is to get a full Psychiatric Evaluation. 

I clarified with the staff if they require it from a psychiatrist or psychologist, they don't care. I also asked if there were particular questions or information that should be addressed in the evaluation, she said no. 

I looked up the local Psychological Association, who has a listing of practitioners in my area, they also included biographies and I chose one close to me who has worked with military personnel and when I talked to him, he has experience with completing psych evals for the military. 

I chose a Psychologist over a Psychiatrist because a referral to a Psychiatrist can take upwards of a year here currently for non emergencies. I also have coverage under my Public Service Health Care plan to a total of 1000.00 per year. I do need a doctors referral for this. So, check your plan if you want to go that route. If you do NOT have a plan, keep your receipts as you can still claim the total charges on your tax return if you qualify. 

From what I understand, seeing a Psychiatrist would be free as s/he is a medical doctor, but report writing is not. So, ensure you clarify before hand to get an idea of what types of charges for this report you'd be looking at. 

For those that go the Psychologist route, a typical evaluation would be 1 or 2, hour long sessions (maybe more depending on your situation), and depending on the psychologist, they may require you to take a test called the MMPI (personality inventory) or the MCMI (Multiaxial inventory - to check if you have a current DSM dx), both will cost you extra as the psychologists are also charged a per use fee for these tests. These are simple, fill in the dot kinds of questions that will give the psychologist a better understanding of your personality. Then, depending again on the psychologist it will likely take 1-2 hours to write the assessment. 

I'm not sure about the guy I am seeing, but in my old job, the psychologists would bill a standard 2 hours to write evals for court (not sure how different it would be in this case) and would charge an additional hour for each test that they have you complete. 

I certainly hope that this helps people seeking information on this topic so that they won't have to bother the local curmudgeons with their pesky questions and requests for hugs and kissies! 

 ;D


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## the 48th regulator (21 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> I certainly hope that this helps people seeking information on this topic so that they won't have to bother the local curmudgeons with their pesky questions and requests for hugs and kissies!
> 
> ;D





			
				the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Here is a wild one for ya,
> 
> Ever thought of getting your Doctor involved, and maybe help to clarify this for them via a letter?
> 
> ...





			
				the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> Ah yes, the age old, I am someplace with no Doctor response.
> 
> Let me guess, your file is in limbo or missing, as you contacted the Doctor that was helping you at the time....
> 
> ...




Hurray,

You did it, and all without the help of a curmudgeon like me........

Good thing you are here to help.

Good luck,a nd hope things go well with the evaluation.

dileas

tess


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## Sub_Guy (21 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> And yes, I'm married to the military. Most (dependent) wives that I've talked to, feel the same way.  We are asked to move across the country and give up careers, good paying jobs, friends family, all for the sake of our husbands and their careers.



You could have said no.  I often wonder why people say such things, its like being invited to a boxing match, and complaining about the fighting.  You marry the man/woman not the uniform.



			
				Elorajen said:
			
		

> I suspect that you consider your career in the military, more than just a "job". As with ALL military, the job comes first



Nope I consider it a decent job, and in my world the family always comes first!  Something that I picked up as a kid while moving from base to base, friends came and went, but the family was always there.  That is why family is number one, the second they are placed anywhere else on the list, you might as well throw the list out. 


I really hope the evaluation goes well, and that you get in.  Good Luck


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## Elorajen (21 May 2009)

> You could have said no.



Sure. With a detriment to your career. Once upon a time, I know that you could claim hardship if both partners were working and pass on a posting, but from what I understand now, if you say no, your option is to go IR. That's harder on the family in my opinion. I know quite a few families here that are on IR, its very very hard on them. One woman is on their 19th year of IR - can you beleive that? Her family is all here and she runs their family business. Another woman sees her husband a few times a year when he comes in from Comox. I'd rather be with my husband personally, even though I have family in Ontario and his is in Alberta. It can be tough - but what's the MFRC slogan about families? The strength behind the uniform. 

This is rumor, but apparently guys were threatening to pull the pin when the career managers were telling them that they were posted, at one time, it worked. Now, the CMs are calling their bluff.

I left a great job to move here, but I see it less as a loss and more of an adventure. I get itchy feet if we are anywhere for more than a few years. I was going nuts when we were stuck in Edmonton for 9 years, then we spent 4 in Wainwright and could NOT wait to get out of there to explore the coast. I was eager to move. 

So, just curious - when called up to be deployed, do you say no cause you'd rather be with your family? In those instances you put your country and your job first. You are asked to put your life on the line because your country has asked you too. You may die. YES you love your family no one doubts that - but in that instance, they do NOT come first. Your job does.

I would be over the moon to not see my husband deploy in December, heck, it would be cool too if he could opt out of the 6 week exercise he is currently on. I just had the flu, man did that SUCK with a three year old and 6 year old running around! No family to help here, my one girlfriend has a 4 month old, so I couldn't ask her to come take my kids while I puked for 16 hours. I wish that I could have picked up the phone and tell him to move me up on his list!   

I beleive the term that is often used is "suck it up buttercup", I hear it a lot when I start whining. In fact, I seem to recall someone saying something similar earlier in this thread.  

Damn you guys make me babble.


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## aesop081 (21 May 2009)

Elorajen said:
			
		

> One woman is on their 19th year of IR -



They had other options so i dont feel bad one bit.



> This is rumor, but apparently guys were threatening to pull the pin when the career managers were telling them that they were posted, at one time, it worked. Now, the CMs are calling their bluff.



Those are not rumours and the CM was rioght in calling their bluffs. I'm cool with someone who doesnt want to move, i understand, but if you are saying "post me and i'll get out, i'll have more respect if that person actualy gets out.




> So, just curious - when called up to be deployed, do you say no cause you'd rather be with your family?



In fact i have. My daughter moved in with me last summer and being by myself it was not a good time for me to go to the sandbox so i said "no".



> In those instances you put your country and your job first. You are asked to put your life on the line because your country has asked you too. You may die. YES you love your family no one doubts that - but in that instance, they do NOT come first. Your job does.



Thanks for the lesson. I'm sure that those of us actualy serving, know what its like.



> I beleive the term that is often used is "suck it up buttercup", I hear it a lot when I start whining. In fact, I seem to recall someone saying something similar earlier in this thread.



If you hear it alot from different people then they could be right.


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## Elorajen (21 May 2009)

> If you hear it a lot from different people then they could be right.



Just my husband. But he's also usually right. Oh, and I beleive it was you that said to suck it up and call the CFRC. You were right too.

We were actually talking about this subject tonight, and he said not to forget "service before self" which is apparently a common doctrine in the military?



> My daughter moved in with me last summer and being by myself it was not a good time for me to go to the sandbox so i said "no".



Extenuating circumstances. Come on, of course in that instance family comes first if there was no one to take care of your child. 

That said, I was also informed by the recruiter that if it comes that we are both to be deployed, we would be expected to go, and we would not be able to say "well, my kids have to be looked after so one of us has to stay home!"



> I'm sure that those of us actualy serving, know what its like.



You are of course correct, and I certainly appreciate the sacrifice you and your family makes to your country for us all.


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## aesop081 (21 May 2009)

All things aside, good luck and keep us posted.


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