# How to best take advantage of a bachelors degree...



## zill1 (12 Feb 2010)

Hi,

I have considered joining the military for some time and was wondering what would be the best way to take advantage of my bachelors degree *without* being in an administrative position. I will have an undergraduate degree in mathematics at the end of this year. My ultimate interest (and probable pipe dream that people likely hear all the time) would be to apply for or try to stand out to be offered a position in one of the Special operations units. I just don't want to have spent four years for a very challenging degree and not have it somehow aid me in something. 

Thanks for any information you could provide me, and I apologize if this question has been answered; I could not find anything relevant.


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## Osotogari (12 Feb 2010)

If you don't want to end up doing a lot of admin, don't go officer.  Simple as that.  With your math degree they might dangle an opportunity for all sorts of things from clerical to engineering.  
The important thing is what you'd like to get out of your experience and/or your career aspirations.  I'm sure there's already a lot on these boards about special operations opportunities.  Specifically, you may or may not get an opportunity to undertake selection.  If you have any phobias such as heights or tight spaces, you will be made to confront them and it will probably make or break your chance.  Your ability to undertake selection is dependant on your unit's needs.  If you're in a unit that deploys a lot, they might close that off to you.  
Whatever happens, do your research and stick to your guns.  If your trade is oversubscribed then you'll have some other choices to make.

Good luck and start with the pushups and running.


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## Michael OLeary (12 Feb 2010)

I'm curious, during your four years in university, what challenging and exciting jobs did you think a math degree would qualify you for that didn't involve using a desk, computer or administrative skills?


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## ballz (12 Feb 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> I'm curious, during your four years in university, what challenging and exciting jobs did you think a math degree would qualify you for that didn't involve using a desk, computer or administrative skills?



Hahahaha...

Osotogari...

I'm sure if he applies to be a Combat Arms officer he should see a healthy mix of admin and field time no?


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## zill1 (12 Feb 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> I'm curious, during your four years in university, what challenging and exciting jobs did you think a math degree would qualify you for that didn't involve using a desk, computer or administrative skills?



A fair point with a simple answer: I love mathematics. Not to mention originally my plan was actuarial or quantitative analysis work. But really math is the most interesting thing in the world for me, so it naturally became my subject of study. But realistically there aren't that many undergraduate degrees out there to prepare you for challenging physical excitement.


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## Michael OLeary (12 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> A fair point with a simple answer: I love mathematics. Not to mention originally my plan was actuarial or quantitative analysis work. But really math is the most interesting thing in the world for me, so it naturally became my subject of study. But realistically there aren't that many undergraduate degrees out there to prepare you for challenging physical excitement.



OK, with that in mind, how should we answer this:



> I have considered joining the military for some time and was wondering what would be the best way to take advantage of my bachelors degree without being in an administrative position.



What were you expecting to hear?  I'm sure you've diligently applied your well-developed study habits in reviewing all of the possibly relevant trades on the Recruiting website.


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## Brasidas (12 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> But really math is the most interesting thing in the world for me, so it naturally became my subject of study.



If you want to go combat arms, by all means. But if math "is the most interesting thing in the world" for you, why would you be thinking "special ops"? Are you picturing some sort of William Gibson cyberninja MOC?

Any trade can apply to go to JTF2 or CSOR, but regardless of trade, an assaulter's probably not going to have a lot of overlap with advanced undergraduate calculus.


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## zill1 (12 Feb 2010)

Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> OK, with that in mind, how should we answer this:
> 
> What were you expecting to hear?  I'm sure you've diligently applied your well-developed study habits in reviewing all of the possibly relevant trades on the Recruiting website.



I studied to the best of my abilities, and my final conclusion was that if I wanted to have any recognition of education, be it in the form of my paycheck, rank or job it would have to be as an officer doing, according to the recruiting page, lots of administrative work. My question is just this: is it possible to have the best of both worlds.


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## zill1 (12 Feb 2010)

Brasidas said:
			
		

> If you want to go combat arms, by all means. But if math "is the most interesting thing in the world" for you, why would you be thinking "special ops"? Are you picturing some sort of William Gibson cyberninja MOC?
> 
> Any trade can apply to go to JTF2 or CSOR, but regardless of trade, an assaulter's probably not going to have a lot of overlap with advanced undergraduate calculus.



Some people find space to be the most interesting thing in the world, but they probably can't be astronauts, just like I am DEFINITELY not bright enough to be a mathematician and become a professional student...


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## ballz (12 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> I studied to the best of my abilities, and my final conclusion was that if I wanted to have any recognition of education, be it in the form of my paycheck, rank or job it would have to be as an officer doing, according to the recruiting page, lots of administrative work. My question is just this: is it possible to have the best of both worlds.



*DISCLAIMER* I have no experience (besides BMOQ... which is essentially nothing) to base my comments off. This is my (probably very uninformed) opinion only. *DISCLAIMER*

Methinks Land Engineering O or Artillery O, which AFAIK have a more "technical" art to them, would be right up your alley. Land Engineering especially might suit you well. Someone will correct me shortly if I'm wrong.

That said, I think any Combat Arms O position can make good use of the way a mathematician's brain is wired.


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## Michael OLeary (12 Feb 2010)

ballz said:
			
		

> That said, I think any Combat Arms O position can make good use of the way a mathematician's brain is wired.



Ever hear of ballistics?  Or the geometry required for the design of range safety (when the electronic tools aren't available)? How about the requirement for combat arms officers to fill jobs in equipment projects? 

There are applications, but they are not necessarily required of every combat arms officer.


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## Towards_the_gap (12 Feb 2010)

Nor are they very exciting.

Combat engineers do indeed use maths, but somehow I think this fella will find using a 3-4-5 triangle to square off something in the field a little bit 'beneath him'.

To the OP: 

You studied mathematics. The shouty-shooty-running around side of life in the army has little use for advanced mathematics. Therefore I doubt there is a best of both worlds for you.


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## Michael OLeary (12 Feb 2010)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Nor are they very exciting.



They do, however, have the potential to be more exciting than drawing fractal patterns in the foam on lattes as he serves them  If there was a demand for math majors for exciting jobs he'd already have one.


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## Towards_the_gap (12 Feb 2010)

ballz said:
			
		

> That said, I think any Combat Arms O position can make good use of the way a mathematician's brain is wired.



Oh and to this gem, every GOOD combat arms officer I have ever worked with has been able to quickly, almost instinctively, think outside the box, and make quick judgement calls under enormous stress, that could result in people dying. I wonder 'how a mathematicians brain is wired' relates to that.


@ Michael O'Leary: True.


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## zill1 (13 Feb 2010)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Oh and to this gem, every GOOD combat arms officer I have ever worked with has been able to quickly, almost instinctively, think outside the box, and make quick judgement calls under enormous stress, that could result in people dying. I wonder 'how a mathematicians brain is wired' relates to that.
> 
> 
> @ Michael O'Leary: True.



Math forces one to think analytically and it certainly changed the way I approach things. But to how that relates to how I would perform, well of course I have no experience so I can't comment.


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## ballz (13 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> Math forces one to think analytically and it certainly changed the way I approach things. But to how that relates to how I would perform, well of course I have no experience so I can't comment.



Advanced math does relate to



			
				Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Oh and to this gem, every GOOD combat arms officer I have ever worked with has been *able to quickly, almost instinctively, think outside the box,* and make quick judgement calls under enormous stress, that could result in people dying. I wonder 'how a mathematicians brain is wired' relates to that.



TTG,

You're getting awfully jumpy towards something you clearly discredit without much knowledge of. I get the feeling you haven't had to learn much math past some trigonometry if you don't think math requires you to think outside the box. 

If you're wondering how a mathematicians brain is wired relates to what the things you're describing, perhaps you should get a clue about how a mathematicians brain is wired first. The cognitive ability someone holds/acquires to obtain a math degree is pretty impressive, certainly nothing to brush off, discredit, or take for granted, and might just be a valuable part of measuring the potential to become a good leader.

Did I say the definition of a good officer is somebody with a math degree? No. So simmer down.



			
				Michael O'Leary said:
			
		

> Ever hear of ballistics?  Or the geometry required for the design of range safety (when the electronic tools aren't available)? How about the requirement for combat arms officers to fill jobs in equipment projects?
> 
> There are applications, but they are not necessarily required of every combat arms officer.



Yes I have heard of those, but that's not what I meant at all. I meant in the field, leading troops, that the ability to think as critically, analytically, and as abstractly, as someone who holds a math degree has proven capable of doing, could probably be used almost every day in every day field stuff. 

Not required of every combat arms officer, no, but it's just one more asset if you've got it. One more trick in the bag that could prove to be invaluable.


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## ballz (13 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> Math forces one to think analytically and it certainly changed the way I approach things. But to how that relates to how I would perform, well of course I have no experience so I can't comment.



You loved math, you got educated in it, and that's great. Now you want an exciting career. I am quite sure no matter what career you pick, even if a math degree isn't required, and there's nothing in the job description about doing a ton of math, you will use the things you know and have acquired through education and experience and apply it and make it work.

For you, that may damn well be using an approach or way of thinking learned through years of studying math for almost everything, and if that gets the job done, that's what counts, and it certainly wasn't a waste of your degree to take that career path and do something you end up loving as much as math. 

For others, it will be other forms knowledge and/or experience, and if that gets the job done for them and their troops, it wasn't a waste of their time to gain that knowledge or experience either.


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## TangoTwoBravo (13 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I have considered joining the military for some time and was wondering what would be the best way to take advantage of my bachelors degree *without* being in an administrative position. I will have an undergraduate degree in mathematics at the end of this year. My ultimate interest (and probable pipe dream that people likely hear all the time) would be to apply for or try to stand out to be offered a position in one of the Special operations units. I just don't want to have spent four years for a very challenging degree and not have it somehow aid me in something.
> 
> Thanks for any information you could provide me, and I apologize if this question has been answered; I could not find anything relevant.



Apply as a DEO (Direct Entry Officer) Combat Arms officer: Armour (booyah!!!!), Infantry or Artillery. I do have colleagues who have some high-speed degrees with elevated math content. Having said that I really don't care what your degree is in - they all have equal value for young Lts.

Cheers!


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## armychick2009 (13 Feb 2010)

As someone who has two degrees (history & education), I'd like to say that at least you have that math base that is keeping me from many NCM jobs. I prefer the hands-on as you do, as opposed to the paper-pushing. I've done 12 years of paper-pushing which is why I'm (at this point) turning down a DEO position with the hopes of doing some NCM work. The problem is, unlike you, I detest math and stopped taking it in grade 10. The glitch? Many NCM positions I would enjoy require the grade 11 math. All these degrees and it don't mean much right now!

So, anyways... that being said -- You have your degree in math. You obviously aren't worried about the decrease in salary by accepting an NCM job. (Same thing I have considered)... but you still want to use your talents, right? You just need to realise that you won't be utilising them to your full degree, if you go NCM. Why not do something outside of the army in your free time, to push your math need there? And then just focus on the job you want to do instead of the job you think will best suit your math brain? 

For example, a history degree really can only get me into maybe two positions for Officer and my education? Not even one, unless I obtain a masters degree. So, I have to bite the bullet and take the job that I know will make me HAPPY. (That being said, it's a closed trade right now so that is creating a bit of a headache for me!)  My preferred trade has absolutely nothing to do with Canadian history. It also has absolutely nothing to do with education. But, it is something that'll put the grin on my face when I do it every day! In my free time, I plan to do some work with non-profit groups to ensure heritage spots of interest are kept 'safe' and that I intend on being on committees to help with the advancement of education for a particular demographic of people. So, I will still use my degree, just not at work.

Does that make sense?

So, grab that big ol' list of NCM positions and investigate which ones would bring you personal satisfaction. And then? Find a pet project outside of your immediate work-world, that'll appease your geeky mind 


P.S. I'm going to have a degree-burning party sometime in the near future where I'll burn the certificates and degrees of my seven years of post-secondary education! I've learned that for myself, it pretty much wasn't necessary. I'm all for life-long learning but not necessarily of the degree-granting kind now! You're welcome to bring your degree, I'll bring the lighter fluid and match!  ;D


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## Loachman (13 Feb 2010)

Zill1: You're over-analyzing. Pick something that you simply want to do, regardless of what your degree is, and apply for that.


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## Journeyman (13 Feb 2010)

You may be interested in, and eventually suitable for, CANSOFCOM's Canadian Joint Incident Response Unit (CJIRU)


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## Fusaki (13 Feb 2010)

ballz said:
			
		

> Methinks Land Engineering O or *Artillery O*, which AFAIK have a more "technical" art to them, would be right up your alley. Land Engineering especially might suit you well. Someone will correct me shortly if I'm wrong.



Hehe,

I'm reminded of a post for a few years ago:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/53768/post-502422#msg502422



> I recently completed dp1.1 ARTY (PH. 3) last summer. and have a good understanding of what will be covered on DP 1.2 (PH.4).   The only math I needed was simple addition and subtraction. *I dropped grade 12 precalculus in order to take an easier course and didn't take any math in University.  I've found that my time as a pizza boy and having to make change has benefitted me the most.* Being able to quickly add/subtract mag variations, c/a's, etc. in your head using pizza boy math speeds things up.  I'm not sure how much math is needed for my future courses, but I'm thinking it will be very little.  So with that said, you should stop thinking of OT'ing and stay in the artillery since it is the greatest job in the world.



I'm not an officer, nor do I hold a university degree, but my CPL's gut instinct tells me that Loachman pretty much nailed it:



> Zill1: You're over-analyzing. Pick something that you simply want to do, regardless of what your degree is, and apply for that.


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## GAP (13 Feb 2010)

A degree in XXX simply means you have endured four years or so of a mindset.

While some of the data and processes may initially be usable, most employers are interested in the fact that
 1. you completed the task
 2. you theoretically have shown that you can reason out a process and arrive at a decision
 3. you are trainable.

Remember....this is not applicable to all people....


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## Bruce Monkhouse (13 Feb 2010)

GAP said:
			
		

> A degree in XXX simply means you have endured four years or so of a mindset.



Yup, four more years of smoking dope and bad-mouthing your Country than us high school dropouts........


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## ballz (13 Feb 2010)

Wonderbread said:
			
		

> Hehe,
> 
> I'm reminded of a post for a few years ago:
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/53768/post-502422#msg502422



Har har har, nice...subtle... hint ;D


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## Towards_the_gap (14 Feb 2010)

ballz said:
			
		

> Advanced math does relate to
> 
> TTG,
> 
> You're getting awfully jumpy towards something you clearly discredit without much knowledge of. I get the feeling you haven't had to learn much math past some trigonometry if you don't think math requires you to think outside the box.




I was only getting jumpy as to what qualifies you to comment on what makes a good officer.  Oh, and as an Engineering Surveyor in the Royal Engineers, I did happen to learn a bit more than trig. So I do know about maths, and how asides from construction tasks, I have never had to use anything more advanced than simple multiplication whilst doing anything exciting as a combat arms soldier. 


If the OP enjoys math and wants an exciting career, I can only think that the engineers or the gunners offer that mix of technical problem solving and 'outside the box' thinking.


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## zill1 (15 Feb 2010)

Thank you all very much for your input guys. Hopefully I will have my ducks in a row soon and have everything figured out. I agree I am over analyzing... I am just getting antsy as graduation comes closer and closer.


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## gun plumber (15 Feb 2010)

Why not look into EME officer? You will have to take engineering at a university and for the first little bit of your career you will be involved in clerical and administration of a Maint Plt,but it opens up a little later in your career to more interesting things.
my .02


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## vonGarvin (15 Feb 2010)

My  :2c:
In the combat arms (not  combat support arms or combat service support arms, to wit: Infantry and Armour) I have found that an abstract-thinking commander is preferable to one with a scientific background _for command positions _.  Allow me to explain.
A person with say a degree in Social Sciences are Arts is generally more able to make inductions.  A person with a degree in Sciences can make  brilliant deductions.  The difference?  An induction does not require you to have all the facts, whereas to deduce one needs the facts.  A combat arms commander will rarely have all the facts and will therefore need to take a "swag" based on all available facts and probabilities.  This is what I have found among my peers.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (15 Feb 2010)

Holy crap folks, it's a piece of written script that looks good on a wall given to someone who attended classes.

One either wilts under pressure or they don't,.......and that paper won't change a thing.


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## Journeyman (15 Feb 2010)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Holy crap folks, it's a piece of written script that looks good on a wall given to someone who attended classes.


   *Whoa -- hang on!!*

But I was _told_ I was special, and that my troops would worship me, because I went to a prestigious Canadian university! 

Now you're saying it ain't so?! That hardly seems fair dude.TM

You mean, officers should also have......_shudder_......ability, stamina, common sense, leadership skills.....  Can I pick those up through a correspondence course somewhere?



TM - A complete misunderstanding of "fairness" seems a hallmark of a certain age group  ;D


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## vonGarvin (15 Feb 2010)

[slight tangent]
I am proud of my accomplishments in that I completed my four years of university, meeting all time lines, submitting work for grading, completing tests, etc.  I feel that I did more than just "attend"; however, having said all this, I also realise that much more is required of officers.  I think I heard, _somewhere_ that they need ability, stamina, common sense and leadership skills.


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## observor 69 (15 Feb 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> *Whoa -- hang on!!*
> 
> But I was _told_ I was special, and that my troops would worship me, because I went to a prestigious  Canadian university



Went to Queen's U eh ?   >


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## vonGarvin (15 Feb 2010)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> Went to Queen's U eh ?   >


Oh, probably.  UWO  wouldn't take him  >


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## zill1 (15 Feb 2010)

Journeyman said:
			
		

> *Whoa -- hang on!!*
> 
> But I was _told_ I was special, and that my troops would worship me, because I went to a prestigious Canadian university!
> 
> ...



If this is directed at me it's petty and misplaced. I don't have any false senses of entitlement; I just asked the best way to take advantage of working my ass off for four years obtaining one of the more challenging degrees available and having wasted four full years of my life to have no benefit from it would be shitty. Sorry if it means dog shit to you.


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## Towards_the_gap (15 Feb 2010)

Purely out of curiousity, and not being snide, but when choosing to do maths in uni, what use in the work world did you think it would have? I only ask because I personally do not know, asides from maybe teaching maths at a high school, number crunching for statistics canada or something similar. 

End of the day dude, you have the ticket punched, which opens doors that would otherwise be closed if you were a phillistine such as I. You have a broader range of options to choose from, and you need only to pick that which suits you best. 

TANGENT ALERT: in regards to those comments by journeyman and technoviking, the issue of whether officers really require degrees is a can of worms I can dive into all day, being of the mind that they do not need them, and that they rarely have any bearing on how a soldier performs in a leadership role.


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## ballz (15 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> If this is directed at me



I can't speak for journeyman but I'm pretty sure it wasn't.... Like TTG said, the degree/officer thing is hot topic and the source of some long-@$$ thireads.


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## vonGarvin (15 Feb 2010)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> TANGENT ALERT: in regards to those comments by journeyman and technoviking, the issue of whether officers really require degrees is a can of worms I can dive into all day...


I stopped there because the policy is clear: officers will have degrees.  "Others" have decided.  So, I got on board and voila, instant officer! ;D


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## zill1 (15 Feb 2010)

Towards_the_gap said:
			
		

> Purely out of curiousity, and not being snide, but when choosing to do maths in uni, what use in the work world did you think it would have? I only ask because I personally do not know, asides from maybe teaching maths at a high school, number crunching for statistics canada or something similar.
> 
> End of the day dude, you have the ticket punched, which opens doors that would otherwise be closed if you were a phillistine such as I. You have a broader range of options to choose from, and you need only to pick that which suits you best.
> 
> TANGENT ALERT: in regards to those comments by journeyman and technoviking, the issue of whether officers really require degrees is a can of worms I can dive into all day, being of the mind that they do not need them, and that they rarely have any bearing on how a soldier performs in a leadership role.



Strange I just wrote out why I chose math and it didn't post... but anyway:

I chose math planning to go into actuarial work. I interned a year at Manulife financial and planned on doing insurance actuary work. If that failed to interest me I was going to do quantitative analysis somewhere. You'll find nowadays there is a high demand in the business industry for math/physics/statistics/computer science majors as opposed to business majors because they've become a dime a dozen and we are able to adapt to almost all financial systems.


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## Loachman (15 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> I just asked the best way to take advantage of working my ass off for four years obtaining one of the more challenging degrees available and having wasted four full years of my life to have no benefit from it would be shitty.



As a degree is a requirement to become an officer now (although of little practical benefit for most occupations), your time and efforts are not exactly "wasted" if you want to become an officer.

I still stand by my earlier advice: pick an occupation that interests you, regardless of what your degree is.


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## TangoTwoBravo (15 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> If this is directed at me it's petty and misplaced. I don't have any false senses of entitlement; I just asked the best way to take advantage of working my *** off for four years obtaining one of the more challenging degrees available and having wasted four full years of my life to have no benefit from it would be shitty. Sorry if it means dog crap to you.



He offered you some outstanding practical advice earlier about how to use your degree as an avenue into CANSOFCOM, so you might want to take it down a thousand on the _hostilitometer_. If he wanted to slam you he would have quoted you. Journeyman ain't shy.

I think, however, that your tone and attitude in your response about your degree is proving the point that he made in general jest.


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## zill1 (15 Feb 2010)

Tango2Bravo said:
			
		

> He offered you some outstanding practical advice earlier about how to use your degree as an avenue into CANSOFCOM, so you might want to take it down a thousand on the _hostilitometer_. If he wanted to slam you he would have quoted you. Journeyman ain't shy.
> 
> I think, however, that your tone and attitude in your response about your degree is proving the point that he made in general jest.



And his input on the subject was more than appreciated. Unrelated accusations of a gimmi-gimmi attitude just because I have a degree isn't, in my opinion. My tone about my degree? I don't have any delusions that having a degree makes me better than anyone; quite contrary. It's MUCH easier to be a university student in any year than to work 40 hours a week. Although spending four years surrounded by liberal bleeding hearts and dramatic brainless women (albeit having other uses) should be recognized as a feat in itself.


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## REDinstaller (15 Feb 2010)

Another feat would be if you have paid your student loans and aren't going to declare personal bankruptcy first.


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## PMedMoe (15 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> dramatic brainless women (albeit having other uses)


Nice.   :


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## zill1 (15 Feb 2010)

Tango18A said:
			
		

> Another feat would be if you have paid your student loans and aren't going to declare personal bankruptcy first.



I went largely for free through scholarships and worked through summers... only cost of living is a little stressful right now.


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## ballz (15 Feb 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Nice.   :



*jumps for cover and watches eagerly* ;D


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## Loachman (15 Feb 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Nice.   :



So how's your hostilitometer today?

You've got brains and I've never seen any drama, so I think that you were exempt...


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## zill1 (15 Feb 2010)

ballz said:
			
		

> *jumps for cover and watches eagerly* ;D



Yeah that joke was terribly worded. 

I am going to get with a recruiter and discuss all this sometime this week.


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## PMedMoe (15 Feb 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> So how's your hostilitometer today?


Meh.  I'd be more worried about my sarcasmometer.   



			
				Loachman said:
			
		

> You've got brains and I've never seen any drama, so I think that you were exempt...


Thanks!!   



			
				zill1 said:
			
		

> Yeah that joke was terribly worded.


Terribly worded, yes.  Joke?  Hardly.



			
				zill1 said:
			
		

> I am going to get with a recruiter and discuss all this sometime this week.


Good idea.


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## Loachman (15 Feb 2010)

PMedMoe said:
			
		

> Thanks!!



I specifically avoided speculation regarding any "uses" that you may or may not have, though.

Wasn't that polite of me?


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## GAP (15 Feb 2010)

This topic has been bleeped bleeped, and now is spiraling downward..........as must they all................... ;D


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## Loachman (16 Feb 2010)

I don't have a degree. It might have something to do with that.

But I do have manners.

Sort of.


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## PMedMoe (16 Feb 2010)

Loachman said:
			
		

> I specifically avoided speculation regarding any "uses" that you may or may not have, though.
> 
> Wasn't that polite of me?


Yes indeed.


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## Otis (16 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> I am going to get with a recruiter and discuss all this sometime this week.



Oh please oh please don't be a U of T student ...


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## tomahawk6 (16 Feb 2010)

zill1,

Your interest in a military career is commendable,but its not for everyone. People find that out right away at basic training. Look into alternatives as a Plan B such as positions in the Canadian government - intelligence or the foreign service might be worth considering.


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## Gunner98 (16 Feb 2010)

zill1 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I have considered joining the military for some time and was wondering what would be the best way to take advantage of my bachelors degree *without* being in an administrative position. I will have an undergraduate degree in mathematics at the end of this year.



When I joined in 1983 I was half done a Hons degree in Bus Admin at one of the best business schools in Canada.  I loved accounting and wanted to be a Logistics Officer - but the annual quota was full.  I went Artillery, finished off my degree with no debts and immediately went to Germany while the wall was crumbling down.  12 years later I took an Occupational Transfer (OT) to Health Care Admin.  10 years later I received full sponsorship for a Master of Health Admin.  All that to say, congrats on getting an Undergrad degree.  Some of my professors have PhDs in Math and Business and they have been teaching for many years.  I am about the same age as they are and make approximately the same salary.  I have some wonderful experiences they would give their left arm to have lived.  My degree looks nice in the frame I put it in 25 years ago.  It did not open any special doors but it was a good start in a long (26+ year) eventful career in uniform.


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## Antoine (16 Feb 2010)

People hire you for what you know and keep/fire you for who you are.

Answers related to ``how to best take advantage of a bachelors degree `` will generally lead to technical and specialized advices from people in your field or related.

You might ask yourself, ``how to best take advantage of who am I, my life experiences and couple of skills I developed through university, including the Math World `` and find an answer that best fit you.

my  :2c:


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## armychick2009 (16 Feb 2010)

Hey guys! I love the words Hostillimetre and Sarcasmometre! Mind if I steal 'em and put them into my everyday vocabulary???


Tango:  You can no longer declare bankruptcy on federally and provincially dealt loans -- only those you obtain directly from a bank (like, a line of credit, etc). Too many people back in the 90s were playing that game... you need to have at least 10 years pass now before you can declare bankruptcy on that. I am the proud owner of nearly $70K in student loans... no getting out of it except, well... paying it off - which I intend to do!


Zill -- they weren't directing the sarcasm at you, believe me! I've been around these boards long enough to know that most of those kinds of jabs are usually at one another, and not usually the poster posting 


You might get teased about what good is a math degree. But, a math degree to me is much more useful than a history or english degree. (I have a history degree, so I 'get it'   )  most people with history or english degrees, tend to go into teaching (at least at the university I went to)!  But, if you were planning to go into actuary, perhaps the alternative route has traditionally been a business degree... so it's easier for a person with a business degree to explain why they went into that, than for someone with a math degree.


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## armchair_throwaway (16 Feb 2010)

tomahawk6 said:
			
		

> zill1,
> 
> Your interest in a military career is commendable,but its not for everyone. People find that out right away at basic training. Look into alternatives as a Plan B such as positions in the Canadian government - intelligence or the foreign service might be worth considering.



Indeed. May I also suggest Canada's cryptologic agency. Your math degree will come in handy. Join the reserve and get the best of both worlds.


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## TangoTwoBravo (17 Feb 2010)

armychick2009 said:
			
		

> Hey guys! I love the words Hostillimetre and Sarcasmometre! Mind if I steal 'em and put them into my everyday vocabulary???



Please use whenever appropriate!


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## ltmaverick25 (17 Feb 2010)

Take a look at Artillery Officer or MARS officer.  Both trades have some math aspects to them.   On another note, I did some poking around and it does not seem that there are any trades in the CF that require a math degree.  Ultimately, if you chose a career in the CF, in all likelyhood, math will not be the center of your work.  But it certainly can help you in some areas.


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