# Reservists in AFG (merged)



## John Nayduk (21 Mar 2003)

I‘m sure that by now everyone has heard of the mission to Afghanistan. I have seen a warning order a couple of weeks ago telling us that the reservists that are going to go will report to Petawawa by the beginning of May. Being that this is the middle of March, shouldn‘t we be hearing a little more about this tasking? Leave the reserves hanging like this isn‘t a good way to get the augmentation that is obviously needed.


----------



## Jarnhamar (21 Mar 2003)

Also something to think about is that many of the reservests signing up to afganastan are the reservests that WERE NOT picked to go to bosnia or even be on the ‘spares list‘ for bosnia.
This may not be the case for everyone but i think its a large majority.


----------



## John Nayduk (21 Mar 2003)

I don’t think the “signing up” part is in motion yet.  Like I said, all we got was a warning order.  
We might get guys that didn’t bother to sign up for another tour in Bosnia but Afghanistan is a “sexy” new tour so there will be guys willing to go.  With 6 weeks to go before they are to report to Petawawa, it would be nice to get a little information.  Or is this a classic case of waiting to the last minute and declaring the reserves unreliable because they can’t drop everything and get 9 months off at the drop of a hat.
Sorry, a little rant there.


----------



## Zoomie (21 Mar 2003)

Every PRes unit in Canada was asked to provide a list of names of Pers that were AVAILABLE for any such ROTO to Afghanistan.  At no point was this to be a search for people ready to go.  It was what we like to call a "Staff Check"


----------



## Jarnhamar (21 Mar 2003)

I‘ve heard the guys going to afganastan will spend 8 to 10 weeks in the field out west and somehow they will write it off as their work up training.  It‘ll be interesting to see the attrician (sp?) rate among the augmentees. (last week, 2 days into a 5 day field ex one female soldier from up north decided she didnt want to be there and ended up **cking off to ottawa to see some friends, very professional imho)

Waiting until 6 weeks prior or even less to get a hold of the reserves is plain typical stupid of the army. The roto13 guys for bosnia had 9 months notice before work up training started. i agree with Another Recce Guy  100%. When people can‘t quit their job or school on a weeks notice people will turn and condem the reserves for not being able to augment the reg force.


----------



## Hasty P (21 Mar 2003)

I thought the Afghanistan tour wasn‘t leaving until the end of the summer, if the troops are reporting to Petawawa at the beginning of May and the training is only 8-10 weeks, that puts them being done their build-up training at the end of June or middle of July.  Am I wrong about the estimated departure date?


----------



## Hasty P (21 Mar 2003)

I also heard it was supposed to be made up of 20% reservists, but that again is just a rumour.


----------



## Jarnhamar (21 Mar 2003)

The 8-10 weeks is a field excersise out west. They would probably come back to pet after that for the remainder of the time.


----------



## Cdn Soldier (22 Mar 2003)

I would hazard a guess that the "field ex out west" is the newly commenced Brigade Training Event (BTE) which will take place at the new CMTC in WATC.  One Bde per year will be run through it, with 2 CMBG being the lucky first.  They are due sometime in the Apr/May timeframe, if my memory serves.

What you are witnessing is why it is so difficult to involve reservists in a Roto "0" yet also so easy to include them in Roto "1x".  The TO&E for a Roto 0 will continue to evolve up until the day the last Chalk departs Canada...well...actually long past that as well but until the TO&E is at the 80% solution, nobody is going to issue any tasks for augmentation simply because it might end up the augmentation is not required.  After the first couple of Rotos things settle in and the TO&E pretty much gets cut and pasted from the previous Roto.  Zoomie was right, what happened was a staff check very early in the game and should not give rise to any false hopes.  

It‘s a trade-off but the Army understands the sacrifices the Militia pers make to go on tour and the consequences of dropping said Militia pers from the tour at the last minute.  This is why when Op Palladium Rotos are mounted the directive, at least in LFWA, is that if a Militia member passes all of the training and has the appropriate quals, they will have manning precedence over a Reg Force member.  This happened in a big, big way for Roto 11.  Reg Force member is dropped from the tour, s/he carries on with what they would normally do and is available for other tasks which arise.  Militia pers is dropped, they have blown a year of school, don‘t have a job to go home to for 6 months, probably has spent a gazzilion dollars on gucchi kti and is quite possibly scared to attempt another tour in case they get dropped again with no compensation.  Additionally, the Reg Force member dropped generally enters the replacement pool for the Op yet the Militia member is under no obligation to do so and won‘t be given a contract "just in case".  Because of this a tasking brick will only go out to them when the TO&E is solid enough to make this possibility worth the risk.  

So I suppose the conundrum faced is which you would prefer; ample notice with the very real possibility of being dropped from the tour (ask around about the number of pers who were on the bus, off the bus multiple times for Apollo) or shorter notice with a greater chance of going.  I would hazard a guess and say it‘s 50/50 either way and would depend on how badly it was you wanted in on a Roto 0 vice a Roto 15.


----------



## Tyler (7 Apr 2003)

Okay, we were briefed last parade night by our Coy Commander about the Afghanistan situation and how it applies to us reservists. Basically: 

* They are only taking 50 P.Res pers. from across Canada on Roto 0, 12-14 of which will be from 31 Brigade

* The minimum qualification is a QL4 Drivers, additional languages will also help.

* Those who are seleced from 31 Brigade will leave on May 1st for Meaford for work-up training.

* Op Athena will be an Article 6 mission.

So that‘s what I know so far.


----------



## ProPatria05 (7 Apr 2003)

This discussion may be redundant, as it appears our illustrious government is trying to covertly reneg on their commitment to this mission.
National Post - April 4, 2003 

Bulls**t like this makes me embarrassed to be Canadian. What a bunch of a**holes we have running our country.


----------



## Pikache (7 Apr 2003)

National Post reports 3000 men for the two tours, so logically speaking, it‘s a 1500men split b/w the tours.

If only 50 reservists are going, then that leaves 1450 reg force guys to fill in the spots.

Then there is this pool of willing reservists who‘d like to go.

This is gay.


----------



## John Nayduk (7 Apr 2003)

I’ve heard the 1,500 X 2 =3,000 as well.  It’s my understanding that there will be about 25 reservists from each brigade going.  Of course, the guys who are really in the know aren’t saying anything.  Who could blame them because as soon as they said something, the government would change thing and these guys would look stupid.  This doesn’t help the guys who will end up going though.


----------



## Draco (23 Jan 2005)

I've heard rumours lately that more reservists will be used in Afghan rotos. Since Bosnia is being shut down the only place where Mo-men can get proper experience is now Afghanistan...

Anyone have any details on this..?


----------



## DELTADOG13 (23 Jan 2005)

More Reserves will not be used in Afghanistan unless the force levels increase. Reserves already have operational jobs that preclude Regular force participation such as CIMIC.
 ;D


----------



## eliteboris (23 Jan 2005)

Not saying that is not true but the OC of our regiment was talking to me and said there is a good chance reservists are going.


----------



## mo-litia (23 Jan 2005)

It's come down through the lines that the Feb 06 Roto to Afghanistan will have a sizable reserve contingent. Nothing official yet and little details are available right now; but more to follow. I heard this from our RSM so there is likely some substance to these rumours.

Edited to remove name.


----------



## D-n-A (23 Jan 2005)

Theres been Reserve Combat Engineers in Afghanistan.


----------



## dw_1984 (24 Jan 2005)

MikeL said:
			
		

> Theres been Reserve Combat Engineers in Afghanistan.



I believe the reason for this is that we're less common than R031s.  From what I heard from my sect cdr was that there's a shortage of engrs in the reg force so they call more heavily on the reserves than infanteers do because of our fewer numbers.


----------



## Armymedic (24 Jan 2005)

D&S platoon for the ISAF support base is all reserve cbt arms types on this roto.


----------



## Meridian (24 Jan 2005)

Dingbat said:
			
		

> I believe the reason for this is that we're less common than R031s.   From what I heard from my sect cdr was that there's a shortage of engrs in the reg force so they call more heavily on the reserves than infanteers do because of our fewer numbers.



I wasn't aware anything(one) was common in the Forces PRes or RegF...


----------



## c_canuk (24 Jan 2005)

there are all kinds of posting in Afghanistan for R215s 5 people from my unit have been and gone, and a couple weeks previous to his posting to CDS Gen Hillier stopped by the barrack Green Armouries with the message that Canada is greatly increasing it's presence in Afghanistan and Reservests are going to be needed.


----------



## buzgo (24 Jan 2005)

On ROTO 0, the Sig Sqn's rover troop was mostly made up of militia soldiers, and they seemed to be mostly combat arms trades.


----------



## dw_1984 (24 Jan 2005)

Meridian said:
			
		

> I wasn't aware anything(one) was common in the Forces PRes or RegF...



LOL...i should rephrase. Reading my own post I'm getting confused.

The RegF engineers call upon their reserve counterparts more often because there is statisically less of them compared to infanteers in both reg and PRes.  So if a certain Roto needed x amount of 031s and x amount of 043s, there probabaly would be enough RegF 031s to fill the positions (being that 031 is a more popular MOC than 043) compared to the 043s who would quite possibly need to depend on some PRes pers.

This is my understanding of my sect cdr's comments.  If I'm wrong please tell me.


----------



## Draco (25 Jan 2005)

i guess not many of us like the idea of poking around in the ground to see if the rocks will go boom...  ;D


----------



## COBRA-6 (25 Jan 2005)

It will be interesting to see what the reserve contribution to the planned PRT's will be, as a CIMIC operator waiting to go on tour, I hope it's a large amount...  ;D


----------



## R031button (25 Jan 2005)

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> It will be interesting to see what the reserve contribution to the planned PRT's will be, as a CIMIC operator waiting to go on tour, I hope it's a large amount...   ;D



 I was talking to my OC, and I got the impression that the PRT he's been asked to head will be primarily reserve, if he has his way at least.


----------



## jmackenzie_15 (25 Jan 2005)

there were reserve infantry soldiers on roto 0.


----------



## Armymedic (25 Jan 2005)

R031button said:
			
		

> I was talking to my OC, and I got the impression that the PRT he's been asked to head will be primarily reserve, if he has his way at least.



My first though was, "You're dreaming in Technicolor." But then again, with the way things are going with our manpower shortages, who really knows....And you can hear the train coming round the corner again.

One thing I can say for certain, there is allot of rumour and conjecture on this string. 

If you are patient, and seize your opportunity, you will have your chance to go overseas.


----------



## KevinB (25 Jan 2005)

The REGS will mutinee...

 Some guys we have on their second BE dont have a tour...
  
1VP has not deployed complete since Kosovo '99 - many other units are the same way.  

IF the MO gets the PRT task (although I am sure they won't) you will look at a huge retension issue in the regs.

When B Coy 1VP deployed for Op Athena it had to cut a lot of troops - then our third platoon got sent home mid tour.  I think like 70 of them are left...

 70 guys out of a Battalion of over 500 031's

Now try to keep up morale...  We got a lot of guys sayign F-IT I will get out and join the reserves to go on tour...


----------



## pbi (25 Jan 2005)

Kevin B: I also doubt that Res soldiers will make up a large part of the PRT, at least initially. The PRT structure is fairly small: 200 would be the tops, unless we are going to go far beyond what the US is doing with their PRTs. But that raises a couple of questions: how could the single PRT possibly meet the demands of all the troops in the battalions waiting for a tour? And, how do we balance the situation you describe with the popular image that the Army is "burnt out", "stressed out" etc by all the ops we've been doing? Is somebody pushing a BS line here?

I wouldn't jump out the window just yet on this PRT thing. Current indications are that in early 06 we are very likely to significantly increase our committment here, as the first wave of the new force generation process that the Army will employ. That should offer much greater opportunities to Reg soldiers. And, since when does the world sit still? No doubt there will be lots of other interesting places to go.

Cheers.


----------



## R031button (26 Jan 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> The REGS will mutinee...
> 
> Some guys we have on their second BE dont have a tour...
> 
> ...



 With all do respect, the regs aren't the only ones with a retention problem; we've lost ten percent of cour soldiers in two months. That amounted to two soldier; now would they have stayed if they had gotten a tour? Maybe not; but tours do help promote intrest in joining, it's what we are here to do; if only on a part time basis.


----------



## KevinB (26 Jan 2005)

R031 Button.

 Please consider the $ invested in a reg force soldier verus a reservist - specifically career coursewise.  The loss of a reservist or two is insignificant to the operation capability of the Army.  When you have a retension rate we currently have in the PPCLI - you are getting dangerously short of competant experienced NCO's.  A professional army is more a national desire/requirment than a well stocked reserve system.


PBI - The 031's are not burned out - it is the WOG trades due to our bloated TO&E's.  That FACT has to get pushed up...
  The Cbt Engineers are running short too due to their hevier than normal presence in the TO&E than the "accepted fact" of the Bde structure, good thing we got rid of Pioneers  :

I am sure the Gunners are ready to hang themselves with the last 021 tour being 2RCHA's OP Snowgoose Roto 59 Cyprus 93 (and what a tour we had...) 2RCHA and 5GangaBanga (RALC) got a small repreive for Athena 0 & 1 but got shut out again...


----------



## mo-litia (26 Jan 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> R031 Button.
> 
> Please consider the $ invested in a reg force soldier verus a reservist - specifically career coursewise.   The loss of a reservist or two is insignificant to the operation capability of the Army.   When you have a retension rate we currently have in the PPCLI - you are getting dangerously short of competant experienced NCO's.   A professional army is more a national desire/requirment than a well stocked reserve system.



??? While I don't disagree that more money is spent training a reg force soldier, the retention rate in the militia is suffering badly these days as well. I agree with R031 Button that tours definetly help to keep our numbers up. And, if our reserve component gets much more drastically reduced our operational capabiliity WILL be affected.

Anyway, before you get too bent out of shape, word is the Mo types will be pulling primarily gate guard and VCP to free up the Reg types for other taskings they are more suited for.   I can't think of many Reg 031's that would get too angry about this.

Anyway, I would jump at the chance to assist anyway I am able to; and as a student, I am certainly able to take a year off of school. So until I'm told otherwise, see you over there; the memo's going up this week, because that's the word I was given.


----------



## KevinB (27 Jan 2005)

Guys - I did my first tour as a reservist.

 Beleive me I like nothign more than employing reservisits - however if pickings are slim they have to go to the Regs first.


I heard the K-har position might be all D&S - freeing up Americans to do the real missions...
  You coudl not pay me enough for another no mission/no mandate tour.


----------



## R031button (27 Jan 2005)

It's interesting to see that the "recouperation" of the army might actually lead to a greater problem. It's something civies don't understand, soldiers want to practice their trade, and want to do their job. A banker goes and does his job everyday, and chose that profession primarily for the pay. A soldier has much more of a moral and emotional commitment, and not being able to act on that is frustration.....even in the mo.


----------



## Docherty (27 Jan 2005)

I am curious to know if a Reservist is competitively capable of going over seas how much experience does he usually need?


----------



## CBH99 (27 Jan 2005)

It depends on the individual.  A soldier who has been in the reserves for years, has a lot of training experience, and possibly has a tour under his/her belt is obviously more experienced and likely to be pointed at than a reservist who has only been in for a little while.  When it comes to deploying reserves forces on any sort of tour, it really boils down to the individual soldiers - some are more competitive than others.


----------



## Docherty (27 Jan 2005)

Intresting... I am trying to get into the Reserves and ultimately I would like to go overseas when I am done University.


----------



## pbi (27 Jan 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Guys - I did my first tour as a reservist.
> 
> I heard the K-har position might be all D&S - freeing up Americans to do the real missions...
> You coudl not pay me enough for another no mission/no mandate tour.



Do you mean the PRT ForcePro element or the proposed Inf TF in 06? If it is the former: you are right: the Inf Coy (or element, or WTF it turns out to be...) will likely be just there to secure the camp and maybe do local security patrols. If the latter, I think it is way, way too early to guess at what the mission might be. Chances are it will not even be OEF by then, but instead the new "Combined Command" that is now being proposed, which would be a sort of merger between ISAF and CFC-A, with a heavy NATO component. 

Are you perhaps thinking about the Rumanian Inf Bn that is there at K'har, that is used by the US for ForcePro? I think there is a good reason why they are not given a more demanding mission....

Cheers


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (28 Jan 2005)

Lotsa rumours floating around here and little substance...  PBI, as usual, has his ear to the ground and is likely the most in the loop of anyone with reference to future activities.  I see that the Romanians are as effective with 76 as they are here!  LOL

Some personal points.  I know LFWA selected minimal numbers of reservists for Athena 2, and those who were accepted generally had to have a previous tour - normally Bosnia.  Second, before the CIMIC Mafia gets too excited, I cannot see Canadian CIMIC manning PRTs complete (the roles are very different in some cases), and I especially cannot see a Reserve Officer being selected to head the first PRT rotation - whenever it comes.  There are units (Reg F) warned right now to deploy in 06 and as KevinB points out, there are Reg F units up to bat for upcoming deployments.

IMHO, this theatre is not yet ready for formed Reserve sub-units, especially if the K-har option is selected.  In a couple of years, maybe, but I was involved with the angst surrounding deployment of Res F coys to SFOR and am not certain that the gains are worth the effort.  The experience level in this theatre has to be very high, especially with a south-eastern Afg deployment.  As for individuals, as was pointed out above, it depends on the soldier.  Some Reserve soldiers have that combination of ability and experience that makes them perfect candidates for tours - any tour.  Many others don't - it depends entirely on the individual.


----------



## Meridian (28 Jan 2005)

Out of curiosity... how is one expected to get that experience of a tour as a reservist... if a tour is generally required to get on another one...

(I dont mean to sound like a smartass here, Im serious)...  Or is the expectation really that individual soldiers will only be taken if they have enough experience, otherwise they will wait until the situation is so diluted we can safely allow the risk of someone without tour experience?


----------



## Yeoman (28 Jan 2005)

I have several reservists friends out or are going out to support or be in theatre right now.
I have to say that I am VERY bitter at the fact that they're out there, I got cut from going on TWO tours (roto 0 to a-stan I could understand why I got cut, but roto 12 to bosnia? you must be kidding) in the MO's, and I got cut from this tour coming up real soon for us. 
1 RCR hasn't deployed since Kosovo in 2000, and there's alot of guys that have done a BE since then and have gotten out because they haven't gotten a tour. my good buddy is leaving the btl as that being one of his main reasons. on his second BE and he's been cut from two tours. I know there's a few guys comtemplating about getting out because they won't be able to get a tour on their current contract.
Greg


----------



## pbi (28 Jan 2005)

Meridian said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity... how is one expected to get that experience of a tour as a reservist... if a tour is generally required to get on another one...
> 
> (I dont mean to sound like a smartass here, Im serious)...   Or is the expectation really that individual soldiers will only be taken if they have enough experience, otherwise they will wait until the situation is so diluted we can safely allow the risk of someone without tour experience?



This normally isn't a requirement, and a number of the Res we had on Op ATHENA R2 were on their first tour. It really depends on the specific job and on the threat level of the mission area. IMHO, sending inexperienced soldiers into a high-risk area is something you do only if you have no other choice. Another factor is that, at the moment, the demand level on the Army to source troops for overseas missions is the lowest it has been in years. Op ATHENA is the only deployment of any size, and about half of the people in TFK are support soldiers. A few of these are Res, but typically the Res CSS world has difficulty producing soldiers with adequate technical qualifications to fill overseas positions.



			
				Yeoman said:
			
		

> I have several reservists friends out or are going out to support or be in theatre right now.
> I have to say that I am VERY bitter at the fact that they're out there, I got cut from going on TWO tours (roto 0 to a-stan I could understand why I got cut, but roto 12 to bosnia? you must be kidding) in the MO's, and I got cut from this tour coming up real soon for us.
> 1 RCR hasn't deployed since Kosovo in 2000, and there's alot of guys that have done a BE since then and have gotten out because they haven't gotten a tour. my good buddy is leaving the btl as that being one of his main reasons. on his second BE and he's been cut from two tours. I know there's a few guys comtemplating about getting out because they won't be able to get a tour on their current contract.
> Greg



Again I have to ask the same question I asked earlier; (and I guess I'll get the same answer...) why does the Army have it all wrong? The leadership of the Army and the CF genuinely believe that the Army (including if not especially) the Cbt A is "toured out". I am getting the message from the Inf guys on this board that this is actually a distortion of the facts: that RegF Inf soldiers are ready and waiting to go overseas. How did we end up with such a confused interpretation of the facts? Cheers.


----------



## Radop (28 Jan 2005)

c_canuk said:
			
		

> there are all kinds of posting in Afghanistan for R215s 5 people from my unit have been and gone, and a couple weeks previous to his posting to CDS Gen Hillier stopped by the barrack Green Armouries with the message that Canada is greatly increasing it's presence in Afghanistan and Reservests are going to be needed.



We had to get a lot of reservists to fulfill our commitment to Roto 0 in Camp Warehouse.  They did driver and D&S positions.  For the most part they did well but there were one or two that had a lot of problems and were eventually sent home early (both discipline and mental problems especially after we were rocketed)


----------



## Radop (28 Jan 2005)

R031button said:
			
		

> I was talking to my OC, and I got the impression that the PRT he's been asked to head will be primarily reserve, if he has his way at least.



Why am I on standby to deploy to there then?


----------



## Radop (28 Jan 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> The REGS will mutinee...
> 
> Some guys we have on their second BE dont have a tour...
> 
> Now try to keep up morale...   We got a lot of guys sayign F-IT I will get out and join the reserves to go on tour...



At our regt, we must take 2 reservists with our hvy dets as a minimum.  We have guys that have been here for years who want to deploy but have not been given a chance because they must send reservists.  One of the biggest complaints I hear from the guys is why do they get to go.


----------



## Radop (28 Jan 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> PBI - The 031's are not burned out - it is the WOG trades due to our bloated TO&E's.   That FACT has to get pushed up...
> The Cbt Engineers are running short too due to their hevier than normal presence in the TO&E than the "accepted fact" of the Bde structure, good thing we got rid of Pioneers   :



WOGs, Our trade (215) is hardly a WOG trade as we have supported every mission in every festering hole in the world providing your calls home and ability to talk in the field.  Just because we are not a combat arms trade, doesn't mean that we are not a field trade.


----------



## Britney Spears (28 Jan 2005)

> Again I have to ask the same question I asked earlier; (and I guess I'll get the same answer...) why does the Army have it all wrong? The leadership of the Army and the CF genuinely believe that the Army (including if not especially) the Cbt A is "toured out". I am getting the message from the Inf guys on this board that this is actually a distortion of the facts: that RegF Inf soldiers are ready and waiting to go overseas. How did we end up with such a confused interpretation of the facts? Cheers.



I'll take a stab at this (don't quote me in the CAJ please). Perhaps our senior leaders are taking the press too seriously? 

Ask any civy on the street, he/she will probably tell you that our forces are "overstretched" and "undermanned", buzzwords that have been bandied about on the idiot box because they make a good, half second headline. Rarely do the press make a distinction between Cbt arms and CSS,  terms that are meaningless to their intended audience. Everything I've heard <i> within the forces</i> seems to indicated that there is a glut of reg force Cbt arms (or at least infantry, can't speak for anyone else) troops itching to deploy, and it's the techies who are feeling the manpower shortage. Rank wise, the real cruch is not in pte/cpls, but in officers and sr NCOs, positions which cannot be adequately filled by reservists. Just look at the size of the PAT battallions on some of the bases. 

Of course, one would hope that NDHQ doesn't rely soley on the CBC to measure the pulse of the forces, but, hey, some things that are blindingly obvious to me apparently are not.


----------



## pbi (29 Jan 2005)

Britney Spears: I don't really want to admit this, but I think you may not be far off the mark. Considering that unless we deploy with sticks and spears we will need CSS (and a a healthy chunk of them if we want to be fully self-sufficient and mission capable) what can we do about this imbalance? Use more Res in CSS?   Here's my take on that: we have three Svc Bns in our CBG and   most of them would have extreme difficulty producing any fully deployable CSS soldier with tradeskills eqiuvalent to an experienced   RegF CSS Cpl. Not a slag on our Res CSS soldiers-there are huge systemic problems in the Res CSS world, but IMHO a universal condition, except possibly in SQFT where they have a more coherent approach to training and emloying their Res CSS.

Cheers.


----------



## Britney Spears (29 Jan 2005)

> except possibly in SQFT where they have a more coherent approach to training and emloying their Res CSS.



Really?


If reserve Svc Bn's cannot provide deployable troops, then WTF are they good for? Flying kitchens on weekend excercises? I sure hope not, if the my last experience with those is anything to go by.

Since we've got so many R031s standing around, maybe they should be encouraged to remuster into the Svc Bns. A rather disproportionate number of reserve pay clerks I've dealt with sport metal wings and/or pathfinder torches, so its not imposible.


----------



## jmackenzie_15 (29 Jan 2005)

don't get me started on the pay clerks....


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (29 Jan 2005)

Some fire support for PBI, et al.:

The requirement for Reservists to have a previous tour for Afghanistan was not formally promulgated.  I know there are a few (politically motivated  > ?) pers that have made it on R2 without a mission.  I do know that for the CIMIC cell (where the bulk of the Reservists are concentrated), a previous tour - in a low threat theatre (Bos) - was mandatory.

Where does a Reservist get the "experience"?  Generally, work your way up, as PBI indicates.  Bosnia is still a good place to start before a "heavier" theatre and there are a lot of "any rank, any trade" positions.  BOREAS/BRONZE is now almost exclusively P Res, so there's no excuse - the Reg F has "been there, done that" ages ago.

As for CSS, I can only echo some of the comments.  A great deal of the problem has to do with the length of time it takes to qualify a Res F soldier in most of the CSS trades.  The Reg F can take a person off the street and make that person a vehicle tech in a year or two.  For a Res F vehicle tech, the qualification has, by the very nature of the trade (ie:  it cannot be watered down to mobilization specs, etc.) to take the equivalent time - one to two years, one summer at a time.  And that's just for a QL3 qualified soldier...try getting someone qualified higher!  For more technical trades - forget it!  What to do?  Well, recognizing civvy quals helps, but isn't the complete answer (just because a guy can fix a Chevy doesn't mean he can fix a LAV III)...  Beyond that, I'm not sure.

For the Reg F Inf guys:  I wouldn't be too worried, with NRF 06, PRTs, etc., coming up there'll be plenty to do.


----------



## pbi (29 Jan 2005)

Britney Spears: As Teddy Ruxpin has alluded to, the RegF CSS world, which is a purple world that until recently was not too motivated to do anything about the training issues facing the Res CSS community, has much to answer for with the highly unrealistic ideas about training Res CSS soldiers. The nonsense over HLVW wrecker operation is an example: we have three of these in our Bde, but until recently Res veh techs were not allowed to operate the technical functions on them. I could go on and on but I have seen enough in my time with a Res CBG to see that the Res Svc Bns are to a great extent victims of an apparently unthinking and unmotivated system. Cheers.


----------



## Radop (29 Jan 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> I do know that for the CIMIC cell (where the bulk of the Reservists are concentrated), a previous tour - in a low threat theatre (Bos) - was mandatory.


Why are there so few regulars in CIMIC?  (I believe there are only 3, the CO, a sgt and a mcpl)  I think we could do well in these possitions.


----------



## Kirkhill (29 Jan 2005)

From the tone of this discussion it would appear that the prevailing "flavour of the day" emerging from America in the 90's had it completely bassackwards.   Instead of putting CSS types into the Reserves and filling the Regs with bayonets it would appear that the Regs are required as CSS types and the Reservists are best suited to supply bayonets (for one or maybe two tours, now and then, as they feel like it). Crikey I'm gonna get slagged ;D.

OK, kit needs maintenance, whether it is in the field, in garrison or in storage. Whether it is operated by Reservists or Regs.   I am willing to bet that most of the Technical skills that are missing are maintenance type skills and if I am not totally misunderstanding the tech world most of the tech trades are focussed on a piece of kit and the operator is expected to be able to service that kit (at least to some extent).   That would tend to draw out the education process and make techies harder to find.

Assuming this to be the case, in the civvy world your average "operator" hasn't got a clue about how to repair his kit - some don't even know how the thing works. How many here can describe how his/her cell phone, tv, refrigerator, computer, camera and car all work.   Precious few I would guess.

If what I suspect is true then would it help if the trades were reviewed and their skills split between those minimal skills necessary to operate the kit (often skills that most people pick up in everyday life after minimal training and 5 minutes with an instruction manual) and the complex skills necessary to repair kit.

If this were done then you could take your average civilian and relatively easily turn him/her into a truck driver (relatively I said) and focus him/her on learning how to become a soldier with small arms skills and knowledge of military procedures, protocols and SOPs.   Pretty quickly you have an effective contributor to the CF available from the Reserves.

Most people that join the Reserves, me included, do it/did it because they want to contribute but also because they want to do soldierly things and use soldierly stuff.   Soldierly stuff is Infantry Stuff, is Cavalry Stuff, is Arty Stuff.   Crawling in the mud, driving rugged looking vehicles in obnoxious places, and making big bangs..... all the time getting paid for it and enjoying the company of others that enjoy the same stuff.   Finding people to do that kind of stuff (riflemen, gunners, drivers - truck or tank) is relatively easy for the Reserves.   Finding somebody that wants to run an NBC decam station is hard and finding somebody wanting to repair a motherboard for minimum wage is impossible.

CSS needs to find a clear line between maintenance skills and operator skills. 

Operator skills should be the easily trainable ones - ones that any average citizen can do without trying - but that will be honed by practice in a variety of environments.   These skills can be performed by Regs and Reservists, in garrison, on domestic ops or on expeditionary ops.

Maintenance skills are specialist skills and only full time personnel are capable of handling these and they have to be conducted, as noted in storage facilities, in garrison, on field exs, on domestic ops and on expeditionary ops.   That's an awful lot of locales.   It means an awful lot of techies.   Minimizing the demand for techies is critical.

Kit acquisition is one way to deal with this.   Acquired kit should not require a lot of training to operate (think in terms of your digital video-cam or DVD player - how many took a course to learn how to operate it).   Acquired kit should also be considered as first of of all disposable and, where expense is too great, swappable.   No repairs in the field should be the mantra.   Something breaks, replace it and send it out of the line to have it repaired if possible.   That means more money on kit and spares and more trucks but they are easier to come by than techies.   This I know. Because I spend time trying to build high tech plants that can be operated by mixed crews of Mexicans and Phillipinos working under American supervisors either at sea or on some god forsaken rock that requires a 40 min flying boat ride from the nearest dirt strip.   The technical support comes from people hired at 30,000 USD per year with a grade 10 education.   There may be a college trained engineering technician or two on staff.

Techies and Rifles (lets say gunners and drivers as well here) require two different streams.   

Rifles can be recruited for one, maybe two tours and then many of them would comfortably retire to a reserve unit and settle down to family life and a civvy job ready for the call.   Many others would find the job interesting and rewarding and make it their careers, full of the knowledge of what that career will entail and the impact it has on a "normal" life.   Mix that up with some down time and domestic assignments for training, as trainers, as support staff to reserve units (all of which requires the right balance between numbers and assignments) and you have functioning combat arms.

Some of those Rifles (the experienced ones) could be in line to do some first line serviceability evaluations after training and form the core of the field maintenance staff.

Techies by and large will have to be paid as civilians in order to compete with the civilian market.   Some techies can be convinced to come out and ply their trade for the good of the country,   for the thrill and excitement of foreign places, for the companionship of likeminded individuals, for the opportunity to do soldierly things, for the education....but by and large .... when the mortgage comes due.... they are going to be awfully tempted by the wages being paid in the civvy world.

The civvy world balances out the high cost of techies by hiring on demand, for a limited number of hours a week with not free clothes and grub.. but the money is better.

Thus my prescription..

As far as possible techie work should be civvy work.   Uniformed techie work should be all about replace not repair.   
Lots of plug'n'play spares on hand.
Kit that any reasonably intelligent civvy can operate.
A combat arms heavy reserve that has spent some time on tour but is "In Reserve" ready for call up at times of dire need, either domestically or occasionally (once in a generation) overseas.
A Regular Force recruited with an expectation of a life spent overseas and/or in constant training ready for immediate deployment.
Lots of training time.
Taskings and bodies matched to give adequate downtime.

Gaps in this formula to be covered by people in uniform.

Cheers.


----------



## pbi (30 Jan 2005)

As a side comment, my understanding of the maintenance system used in the US ARNG (don't know what USAR does..) is that units actually hold very little in the way of mission-specific vehicles or heavy equipment at their armouries. Most of it (I believe) is held at one or more state-run Mobilization And Training Equipment Sites (MATES) where the majority of the maintenance work is done by civilian employees who fix the kit between drill weekends. From talking to the ARNG battalion deployed here in Afgh (3/116 Inf Virginia ARNG) it seems that they have very little integral CSS (perhaps because they are designated "Light").

Our problem in adopting a system like this is geography: we are generally far more challenged by it than our ARNG brethren are: take our Bde for example: we cover an area from Thunder Bay, ON in the east to Prince Albert SK in the northwest. Our units in Thnder Bay face a 12 hour road trip to reach a Canadian Army base.

Cheers.


----------



## DELTADOG13 (1 Feb 2005)

:cam:
Not to start anything that would violate opsec but I believe increases for any upcoming ops will involve higher numbers of Reg Cbt Arms (esp. Inf for Force Protection and Patrolling) 
PRT based on Reg Inf Bn w/ Spt of Cbt Spt Arms and Integral CSS. This will include CIMIC based ResF unit and Civies from Dfait, etc. ResF units are being used to man less hostile areas in order to better task Reg units who have the experience and training to deal with these situations.
 :warstory:
Many ResF pers have tours however the Reg pers are there to do the job. ResF are there to backfill when needed.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (1 Feb 2005)

Delta:

That makes sense and matches what I've heard/been told.


----------



## COBRA-6 (9 Feb 2005)

Radop said:
			
		

> Why are there so few regulars in CIMIC? (I believe there are only 3, the CO, a Sgt and a mcpl) I think we could do well in these possitions.



The CIMIC role has been tasked to the reserves, though Reg F members sometime fill posns when needed. On roto 3 there are only 4 CIMIC posns (all reservists); one tactical support team (1x Maj, 1xCapt, 1xWO, plus drivers) and a staff officer at KMNB, a big step down from roto 0/1, when there was a full platoon. CIMIC is a bit of an anomaly, it's not an MOC, but requires a lot of specialized training, and greatly depends on the member's interpersonal skills, it's definately not for everyone. No doubt many regulars could and have done well in the CIMIC role, but I suspect that after spending so much time and money training a reg f SNCO/Officer they would want to employ him in his trade of expertise, rather than re-train him for an additional job that a reservist could fill.

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## Yeoman (9 Feb 2005)

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> The CIMIC role has been tasked to the reserves, though Reg F members sometime fill posns when needed. On roto 3 there are only 4 CIMIC posns (all reservists); one tactical support team (1x Maj, 1xCapt, 1xWO, plus drivers) and a staff officer at KMNB, a big step down from roto 0/1, when there was a full platoon. CIMIC is a bit of an anomaly, it's not an MOC, but requires a lot of specialized training, and greatly depends on the member's interpersonal skills, it's definately not for everyone. No doubt many regulars could and have done well in the CIMIC role, but I suspect that after spending so much time and money training a reg f SNCO/Officer they would want to employ him in his trade of expertise, rather than re-train him for an additional job that a reservist could fill.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mike



I know the captain and the WO for roto 3. from what they told me, they didn't really get any specialized training, or maybe they're just lying to me?
Greg


----------



## COBRA-6 (10 Feb 2005)

I was on my Tactical CIMIC Operator course with WO K, (and the Major) on Roto 3. In addition to that there are all sorts of other course they send us on, the Tac Op crse is the basic "qualification", after that the more training you take the better obvioulsy... there's a CIMIC battle staff crse starting monday here in Ottawa, though many CIMIC courses are run out of the county by other NATO countries or the UN... other areas of training include negotiation, project management, sales (very usefull), religion, language, emergency management (EMO).


----------



## Yeoman (10 Feb 2005)

Mike_R23A said:
			
		

> I was on my Tactical CIMIC Operator course with WO K, (and the Major) on Roto 3. In addition to that there are all sorts of other course they send us on, the Tac Op crse is the basic "qualification", after that the more training you take the better obvioulsy... there's a CIMIC battle staff crse starting monday here in Ottawa, though many CIMIC courses are run out of the county by other NATO countries or the UN... other areas of training include negotiation, project management, sales (very usefull), religion, language, emergency management (EMO).



I knew that they got taught language, and religion (I did the basic class with them, heh). well that's cool, WO K was my old platoon warrant back in the day. sounds like you had to learn alot. I'm just curious on language training, is there alot? like I know opsec and all, but I'm just curious how much you learnt.
Greg


----------



## COBRA-6 (10 Feb 2005)

A week of pashtu if I recall correctly, I wanted to take the course with them in January, but couldn't get the time off then... or for the battle staff course next week, as I'm already heading to Fort Pickett Virginia on for an FTX next friday... too many good trg opportunities!


----------



## putz (10 Feb 2005)

Is it a for sure thing that there are going to be reservists heading to Afganistan??  A friend of a friend has told me that its a for sure thing that late this year LER is heading out.


----------



## mo-litia (10 Feb 2005)

It's been confirmed within my unit that we are going to contribute a platoon sized group on the rotation in Feb '06. What's now being confirmed is the exact details of the takings we reservists will have in theatre.


----------



## JimmyPeeOn (10 Feb 2005)

c_canuk said:
			
		

> there are all kinds of posting in Afghanistan for R215s 5 people from my unit have been and gone, and a couple weeks previous to his posting to CDS Gen Hillier stopped by the barrack Green Armouries with the message that Canada is greatly increasing it's presence in Afghanistan and Reservests are going to be needed.



My unit sends one or 2 reservists on every roto.


----------



## swoop_ds (11 Feb 2005)

Hey everybody,
So after reading this thread it seems like they need CSS people for Op Athena?  I'm a res cpl mseop,  I have my ql5 and I'm doing my PLQ right now.  Would this be 'qualified' enough to go on tour in Op Athena?  If so, how would I go about applying to go?
-Dave


----------



## pbi (11 Feb 2005)

swoop_ds said:
			
		

> Hey everybody,
> So after reading this thread it seems like they need CSS people for Op Athena? I'm a res cpl mseop, I have my ql5 and I'm doing my PLQ right now. Would this be 'qualified' enough to go on tour in Op Athena? If so, how would I go about applying to go?
> -Dave



This Roto is almost over, and Roto 3 is now in the process of taking over. Therefore the next Roto you might be able to go on would be Roto 04 which should be Aug 05. If you are a Res soldier, your unit will be informed by your Bde HQ of what positions your Bde has been given to fill. (These positions are managed on a national software system called CFTPO). You should ask (early) up your chain of command if there any vacancies for your MOC and qualification level.  If you meet all the requirements and are "Green" to deploy, and your chain of command supports you going, then you're in the pipeline! Good luck.

Cheers


----------



## Cannon Fodder (16 Apr 2005)

Bonjour tout le monde

I heard that the Loyal Eddies are tasked to send a platoon to Afghanistan and that this will occure in all Res Units accross the CF.  Does anyone know more about this program and how I, in a armoured unit, can get a piece of it?


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (16 Apr 2005)

You've heard wrong and are jumping the gun more than a bit.

There are upcoming training tasks for Reservists (including serials at CMTC), but no LFWA Reserve unit has received an _operational _ task.  The Army's managed readiness framework aludes to "potential" tasks for Reservists on upcoming deployments, including such normal things as individual augmentation and the now-standard 20% "cap", but there are certainly no tasks for Reserve units beyond force generating the Reserve Combined Arms Team and company groups for training purposes mentioned in this year's operating plans.

There's a poster out that tries (somewhat successfully) to explain all this - have a look for it.


----------



## Haggis (16 Apr 2005)

Cannon Fodder said:
			
		

> Bonjour tout le monde
> 
> I heard that the Loyal Eddies are tasked to send a platoon to Afghanistan and that this will occure in all Res Units accross the CF.   Does anyone know more about this program and how I, in a armoured unit, can get a piece of it?



I think the message you heard was garbled.  For the past two Op Athena rotos a Reserve platoon has gone over to provide Force Protection at Camp Mirage. I've been told that some of them have rotated through a stint at Camp Julien as well.  The first D&S platoon was drawn from LFWA units, the current is drawn from LFCA units.

As stated by Teddy Ruxpin, the potential exists for more similar deployments, based on the Army's personnel needs.  I think the Army is starting to realize that deploying Reservists in greater numbers on low to medium risk missions is a great way to allow the Reg F the time they need to rest, recruit, train and regroup for more Roto zero's.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (16 Apr 2005)

> For the past two Op Athena rotos a Reserve platoon has gone over to provide Force Protection at Camp Mirage. I've been told that some of them have rotated through a stint at Camp Julien as well.  The first D&S platoon was drawn from LFWA units, the current is drawn from LFCA units.



This is correct.  38 CBG force generated the D&S Platoon at Mirage for Roto 2.  The Platoon was rotated (by section) through Julien.  Force generation was not, however, assigned to a single unit.

Cheers,

TR


----------



## Trinity (16 Apr 2005)

After growing up and watching cartoons for all these years


Its so hard to take military advice from a guy named Teddy Ruxpin


No offence.. I know you know your stuff.  I just get a good laugh out of it.  
We just need a Papa Smurf and a Strawberry Shortcake giving tactics in a thread
and I can die knowing my life is complete.


----------



## Haggis (16 Apr 2005)

Trinity said:
			
		

> Its so hard to take military advice from a guy named Teddy Ruxpin



You don't seem to have any problem taking advice from a Sheep entreé  ;D


----------



## KevinB (16 Apr 2005)

1 VP was told they will take 18  R031's/coy  on TF 1/06 OP Archer...


----------



## ImanIdiot (16 Apr 2005)

What is Op Archer?


----------



## Britney Spears (16 Apr 2005)

I've never heard of this "Teddy Ruxpin" until I saw it here and googled it just now. Must be some old army thing....


----------



## KevinB (16 Apr 2005)

MasterPrivate said:
			
		

> What is Op Archer?



TF 1/06  ;D


 Apparently currently it only the ETT pers (who are now have a different name).

It looks like the name we are giving to non OP Athena CF presence in Afghan (I.E. US attached...)


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (16 Apr 2005)

Exactly right.  Everyone currently belongs to TFK.  However, Archer gets different medals (SWASM vice the GCS) and work for the US-led coalition.



			
				KevinB said:
			
		

> 1 VP was told they will take 18   R031's/coy   on TF 1/06 OP Archer...



This might have an "up to" caveat on it.



> Its so hard to take military advice from a guy named Teddy Ruxpin



I could have used Ninjadeathcommando...  Wonder what my credibilty would be like then!? ;D  As it is, I rather like being an older talking bear.  Besides, I'm MUCH meaner now than in the Eighties...check my pic!  :threat:


----------



## Armymedic (16 Apr 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> TF 1/06   ;D
> 
> Apparently currently it only the ETT pers (who are now have a different name).
> 
> It looks like the name we are giving to non OP Athena CF presence in Afghan (I.E. US attached...)



Its the Canadian part of Op Enduring Freedom. As the mission is completely different, the role the Cdn ETT's play needs a different set of ROEs and operational rules then what ISAF has, because the US in Afghanistan does not play under ISAF rules. 

Op Archer is getting the South West Asia medal  instead (same as OP Apollo) of the "campaign" star medal troops supporting ISAF will get.

As to keep it on this thread, it is possible that a reserve Snr NCO could get a support position on that operation, but not likely.


----------



## Gunner (16 Apr 2005)

I think the confusion lies in the fact that 41 CBG (Loyal Eddies parent formation) was tasked to provide a D&S Platoon, PsyOps Detachment and CIMIC Detachment for TF 1-06.  The platoon will come together this summer and work at LFWA TC, progress to the BTE, and then proceed with TMST with 1 PPCLI with a view to deploy in February to Kandahar under Op ENDURING FREEDOM.  If there isn't scope for a dismounted D&S Platoon on the deployment they will probable remain in Edmonton with a 1 CMBG unit until the end of their contracts. The Army seems to be moving in the right direction in terms of "guaranteeing" employment for those who give up their civvy jobs to deploy overseas.


----------



## MJP (17 Apr 2005)

I don't think it's unit's but individual augmentation in the form of liason staff and what not.  pbi IIRC was doing exactly that just recently.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (17 Apr 2005)

Precisely.  All the staff (CFC-A, CJTF-76, etc.) are augmentee officers.  The ETT was sourced (for Roto 2 anyway) from LFWA - with a lot of 3 PPCLI guys in the mix.



> I was under the impression that major Canadian participation in that mission was over, and our main contribution in Afghan was to ISAF.



It is, for now - although this will/may change in the near future.  Canada plays both OEF and ISAF.  OEF (OP ARCHER) controls the "coalition" staff and the ETTs.  OP ATHENA is currently our major commitment and it is the ISAF mission.

Cheers,

TR


----------



## Acorn (17 Apr 2005)

Op ARCHER is separate from TF 1-06. The latter is still expected to be "go" for early '06, for an as-yet undetermined mission. ARCHER is another task that [parts of which haven't] been signed off by gov't [yet], so I'm not sure more [should be said] about it 'till it's made public.

Acorn
[edited for clairity - in brackets]


----------



## COBRA-6 (23 Apr 2005)

If the government falls I wonder how much it could affect/delay the planned deployment to Kandahar...


----------



## KevinB (23 Apr 2005)

Acorn - We got told 1VP TF1/06 was going to be Op Archer deployed.

 Mind you we also got told several other things in the past...


----------



## Canadian Sig (23 Apr 2005)

We have heard rumors ect. regarding roto 6 and Kandahar from Pet. ( rumors only so far )


----------



## Gunner (23 Apr 2005)

> We have heard rumors ect. regarding roto 6 and Kandahar from Pet. ( rumors only so far )



I suspect that is all they are...rumours (roto 6?)  LFCA has Roto 3 and 4 for Op ATHENA (ie ISAF).


----------



## Canadian Sig (23 Apr 2005)

Don'cha love the rumor mill?  ;D


----------



## ImanIdiot (24 Apr 2005)

KevinB,

Are the 18 R031's per Coy for next year's deployment confirmed, or just speculation? I just put my component transfer in, and with my luck, a regF spot will come up for me just before I get a shot at a tour...and I will end up in a battalion not deploying for 10 yrs  :-\

I'm assuming that if the mo _is _ allocated 18 spots per company, they will be from LFWA...and they better damn well be from 39 bde!!


----------



## KevinB (24 Apr 2005)

Dude - nothing is confirmed until you get off the tarmac    

  I simply related what SgtMaj Leger explained to A Coy 1VP


----------



## paracowboy (24 Apr 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Dude - nothing is confirmed until you get off the tarmac


there speaks the Voice of Truth!
Cannon Fodder, I can't tell from your profile, well, anything about you, actually. So, if you're that dead-set on going to Afghanistan (or any tour) why not just go Reg Force?


----------



## MJP (24 Apr 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Dude - nothing is confirmed until you get off the tarmac
> 
> I simply related what SgtMaj Leger explained to A Coy 1VP


So very very true Kev.  right now we have change 106 (give or take a few).  As it stands now the reserves that we will take won't be going into the Companies, but filling out spots in the ORBAT where their courses and skills fit.  I don't think it a whooly realistic goal and I still expect to see some reservists within the Companies come work-up time, but that's only my opinion so who knows!


----------



## Armymedic (24 Apr 2005)

Well, rumour or not...When my CO was here in Kabul for a visit a couple weeks back, he asked if I were interested to come back on roto 6. It is projected to be a 1 RCR battlegroup with ISAF brigade HQ as per what 3 RCR did here on roto 0. 

And seeing how CO's are not cleared rumour, that must be the way it is at this time. 

I do know roto 4 is from Petawawa.

Wait and see, it'll all come out in the wash...Esp seeing how 1 CMBG seems to be gettting a breather for a yr.


----------



## KevinB (24 Apr 2005)

Trust me 1 bde is not getting a break 3VP and 1VP are going visiting.

 2 CMBG seems to have ISAF while 1 is doing "more active" roles to make use of our excellent tallents  

I can only guess that 5 is in rehab or something  ;D   - actually I figure them for some African exposure (if it ever comes)


----------



## ImanIdiot (24 Apr 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> Dude - nothing is confirmed until you get off the tarmac



That is very true...I was supposed to go on glorious roto 15 last fall, got my bundle of paperwork, did an interview with the OC and everything. 6 of us were selected to go on workup. Well, June rolled around, and I started to get a little nervous. Middle of July, and I was pretty close to panic. I had told my boss and family(and of course, as many pretty girls as I could find) that I was going...it was quite a shock to go into the Ops office and get blank stares when I inquired about it.

 "Roto 15? What the hell is that? Nobody from this unit is going on Roto 15. What are you talking about?"


----------



## PhilB (24 Apr 2005)

Just seaking a little clarification. I have heard/been told that the D & S platoon being formed with 031 reservists from 41 Bgd i.e. LER and CALG HIGHR will be deploying to Camp Mirage in early feb providing work training is passed. I have also heard/been told that in the past sections from the D&S platoon have rotated in and out of afghan as needed. 

More importantly I have been told that as the platoon would be based out of Camp Mirage we would receive no danger pay (aside from when/if you go in to afghan for any length of time), and also would not receive a tax break? 

Can anyone confirm this particularily the part re: the tax break

Thanks guys

Edited to remove location.


----------



## KevinB (24 Apr 2005)

Sorry Dude - Tax Break is only for high risk areas - the Beach in XXXXX is not exactly High Risk...

 I cant remember what I heard the R031's said they where making in Mirage - but we where so understrength a few of them got their GCS from the time they spent as opposed to the GSM at Mirage...


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (24 Apr 2005)

Mirage is at the lowest risk rating; it doesn't qualify for the tax break - and shouldn't IMHO.

The money you actually make depends on previous tours, etc.. 

The rates are posted here:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dcba/mfs/engraph/rate_tables_e.asp?sidesection=2&sidecat=10

For a no-tour "rookie", you'd be looking at about $1050 - 1100 in allowances, plus your 15% Class C.  The allowances aren't taxable, but the pay is...

A couple of other points:  talk of deployments into Afghanistan past Roto 4 are just speculation now - until something is announced, it isn't true!

Second, Mirage's location remains "close hold".   No mention should be made of the host nation.

Cheers,

TR


----------



## ImanIdiot (25 Apr 2005)

A friend of mine played the Camp Mirage game last year, he says it was pretty boring. However, he did spend something like 35 days in Kabul, so he at least got that experience. 

And even if a tour doesn't give you the tax break, and it doesn't have danger pay, you can still put more in the bank over 6 months than you could at your average civvy job. Depending, of course, on how much you indulge on your leave...


----------



## KevinB (25 Apr 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> Mirage's location remains "close hold".     No mention should be made of the host nation.



Hence the XXXXX I'd hate to have that Bear angry at me


----------



## Edward Campbell (25 Apr 2005)

Those of you heading off to Kandahar may find this interesting; it is from today's_National Post_ at: http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=062c108f-1990-4183-a8e9-9c19135f9fc5 

Highlights are mine.



> Avoiding 'the big, bad Americans'
> Afghanistan mission: Canadians to be housed elsewhere in Kandahar
> 
> Chris Wattie
> ...



I agree, broadly, with CBH99 who said, at http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30021/post-207042.html#msg207042 that _â ? The media has been publishing articles like this for years, always trying to strike fear into the hearts of the general public about the state of military affairs in Canada.â ?_

I also agree with Howie Marsh that, _"There's a political dimension to that decision certainly, but there's also a military dimension ... If you're too close to the Americans ... it can distance you from the locals, which cuts you off from the intelligence and all the relationships you are trying to develop with them."_


----------



## PhilB (25 Apr 2005)

Agreed completely reference the danger pay, I was just curious. My second question is in regards to work up training. I have heard, and again Im just a lowly MO guy,  that TF 106 is work up will be run by 1 CMBG i.e. the PPCLI, and putting two and two together as the infantry component of the task force will predominantly be made of 3 PPCLI B COY (??? rumour alert ???) is it a fair assumption they will run work up? 

Also when the D&S guys rotated in from Mirage was it basically to cover off D&S responsibilities in Afghan? 

Thanks again guys. Who knows Kev if I get on this we could have a lightfighter get together in edmonchuck. Lol I really just want to drool over all of your sexy kit!


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (25 Apr 2005)

PhilB said:
			
		

> Agreed completely reference the danger pay, I was just curious. My second question is in regards to work up training. I have heard, and again Im just a lowly MO guy,   that TF 106 is work up will be run by 1 CMBG i.e. the PPCLI, and putting two and two together as the infantry component of the task force will predominantly be made of 3 PPCLI B COY (??? rumour alert ???) is it a fair assumption they will run work up?



That will be up to 1 CMBG and LFWA to decide.  For the 38 CBG deployment, 38 CBG ran the work-up training.  The problem is that the D&S Platoon doesn't deploy on the same timeline as the remainder of ATHENA.



> Also when the D&S guys rotated in from Mirage was it basically to cover off D&S responsibilities in Afghan?



Yes, that's what happened on Roto 2 and (I believe) Roto 3.



			
				KevinB said:
			
		

> Hence the XXXXX I'd hate to have that Bear angry at me


Yeah, he's pretty nasty!    I've had Mirage and OPSEC beaten into my head for four years now...  As if the horde of Canucks can't be spotted in town, buying everything in sight!!   :


----------



## MJP (25 Apr 2005)

PhilB said:
			
		

> that TF 106 is work up will be run by 1 CMBG i.e. the PPCLI, and putting two and two together as the infantry component of the task force will predominantly be made of 3 PPCLI B COY (??? rumour alert ???) is it a fair assumption they will run work up?



The TF106 infantry component will be coming from 1 PPCLI.

As Teddy mentioned it is up to 1 CMBG and LFWA to decide who runs the work-up.  This will usually be tasked out to units and one of them will be the lead and the others fill in as necessary.  I know we are running Level 5/6 ranges(if not more) for 3VP and their work-up this May, but I'm sure other units are running other portions of their training.


----------



## COBRA-6 (25 Apr 2005)

I think the author of that article confused info/dates of the upcoming Op Athena Roto 4, out of Petawawa, with a future Op ?????(TF 106) in Kandahar, out of LFWA...


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (25 Apr 2005)

Just to be clear:

LFCA has ATHENA Roto 4 (end tour sometime in Feb 06)

3 PPCLI has the Strategic Reserve/Surge 05 task (PRT task - if announced - to Kandahar)

1 PPCLI is TF 01-06 (deployment to be determined - post Feb 06)

Standby brigade HQ for 06 is HQ 1 CMBG.

MIRAGE will be needed regardless, and that's where the platoon we're talking about would be tasked.  As I said earlier, their deployment dates are usually a bit "off" rotations on ATHENA.

A lot of this is on a not-so-clear poster published by Land Staff - coming soon to an Armoury near you!

Cheers,

TR


----------



## ImanIdiot (25 Apr 2005)

haha I've seen that poster...expect your unit to hire a rocket scientist to figure it out. At first glance, it is truly baffling, and it says at the top 'its not that complicated'

I would relate the confused looks it was getting from people to the looks a group of cavemen would give a Commodore 64.


----------



## -rb (25 Apr 2005)

Teddy Ruxpin said:
			
		

> Yeah, he's pretty nasty!      I've had Mirage and OPSEC beaten into my head for four years now...   As if the horde of Canucks can't be spotted in town, buying everything in sight!!     :



So how secret is secret? With a bit of research as a rather informed civi I can make a pretty good guesstimate as to where Camp Mirage is located...it seems as though a few of the those involved have been a little bit lazy on the OPSEC . Not to reveal anything here but down to the actual question I have...is the secrecy surrounding mirage due to the host nations desire to remain anonymous or is it more related to the actual OPSEC of the Canadians who are stationed there?

I suspect perhaps a bit of both?

cheers,
ryan.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (25 Apr 2005)

It's both, but as I recall, when the negotiations were going on the HN asked Canada to keep the actual location quiet...  You can guess why.  We also have our own (pretty obvious) reasons for wanting to keep things low key.

Almost anyone can guess where it is, but (IMHO) the restriction is on to reduce excess publicity...

Cheers,

TR


----------



## PhilB (25 Apr 2005)

I have just received a copy of the training schedule for the first month of the D&S plt work up. If any 031 from 41 Bgd is considering this tasking either post here or pm me with your info and I will email you a copy. 

Cheers,

Phil


----------



## Gunner (25 Apr 2005)

> It's both, but as I recall, when the negotiations were going on the HN asked Canada to keep the actual location quiet...   You can guess why.   We also have our own (pretty obvious) reasons for wanting to keep things low key.   Almost anyone can guess where it is, but (IMHO) the restriction is on to reduce excess publicity...



Amen to that.   Using the term "secret base" sends the wrong message as to what Camp Mirage is.   Camp Mirage has been well covered by the Maple Leaf and other publications.   The Host Nation (HN) asked Canada not to discuss its location and we agreed to it.   

The D&S Pl from 41 CBG is supposed to stand up sortly.   They will be employed with LFWA TC for the summer months and then role into the BTE timelines.   I'm not sure what level of training they will achieve (probably Level 3) and take part in other aspects of BTE training.   I believe they are going over to 1 PPCLI for TMST training, etc prior to a possible deployment to Camp Mirage.   There are only guarantees of employment for this period, no promises of an actual deployment.


----------



## Armymedic (25 Apr 2005)

This gets me...



> I also agree with Howie Marsh that, "There's a political dimension to that decision certainly, but there's also a military dimension ... If you're too close to the Americans ... it can distance you from the locals, which cuts you off from the intelligence and all the relationships you are trying to develop with them."



I call BS on that, the average Afghan does not/can not tell us apart from the Americans. Not the ANA, and definately not the uneducated masses in the villages...until we tell them the difference. To them, we are all white english speaking westerners, and arid digi pat cam doesn't help.

So this "concern" about beng too close to the Americans, is just Canadian political crap.

The Afghans actually trust the Americans, because in Afghan culture, your word is everything...and the US is Walking the Talk here, unlike, unfortunately, we are doing.

As for who is actually going where, well I guess we'll see. Needless to say, we are going to be flying into Afghanistan for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Gunner (25 Apr 2005)

> I call BS on that, the average Afghan does not/can not tell us apart from the Americans. Not the ANA, and definately not the uneducated masses in the villages...until we tell them the difference. To them, we are all white english speaking westerners, and arid digi pat cam doesn't help.



On Roto 2, B Coy conducted many dismounted patrols around Camp Julien (as had the other contingents that had spent the last year in the vicinity).  It became readily apparent that 99% of the locals thought the camp was an american base.  So I agree with you.


----------



## Teddy Ruxpin (26 Apr 2005)

This shouldn't be a surprise.  In my experience, most of the Afghans (and Armymedic would know better than I) tended to lump all Westerners into one category.

We (Canadians) tend to think we're "special" and that foreign people view us "differently"...  We're often surprised to find how we're (not) thought of overseas.

I seem to remember a survey in Bosnia in about 2000 where a majority of those responding still thought we were Americans...after five years in the same AOR!

I don't believe that, in the Afghanistan context, there's anything at all to be gained by making feeble attempts to distance ourselves from the Americans.  Educated Afghans will tend to lump the "coalition" into one basket (rightfully so, IMHO), while the mass of people in the country will view us as Americans anyway - unless they have direct contact with our soldiers...
  

Cheers,

TR


----------



## Korus (26 Apr 2005)

Quote from the article Mr. Campbell posted:



> The military has been told to base the Canadian mission in downtown Kandahar, not on the U.S. base on the outskirts of the ancient city. The American base is home to Task Force Bronco, a coalition force that is still hunting Taliban and al-Qaeda holdouts in Afghanistan's rugged hill country.



Acording to this article, the HQ of the US PRT currently in Kandahar already is in downtown Kandahar.. hmm...

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1212/p07s02-wosc.html?related



> "The bomb outside the UN building was a wake-up call," says Lt. Col. Bob Duffy of the 321st Civil Affairs Brigade, which opened a Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) in downtown Kandahar Thursday. The PRT is designed as a protective umbrella for a wide range of development projects by military and government agencies, both coalition and Afghan. Ultimately, the goal is to reach out from Kandahar to disadvantaged communities with a "hub-and-spoke" organization.



I'm not sure of the validity of that article I posted, and I'm not going to ask anyone to confirm or deny it unless they have some open source information...


----------



## pbi (26 Apr 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> This gets me...
> 
> I call BS on that, the average Afghan does not/can not tell us apart from the Americans. Not the ANA, and definately not the uneducated masses in the villages...until we tell them the difference. To them, we are all white english speaking westerners, and arid digi pat cam doesn't help.
> 
> ...



Armymedic: I agree with you 100%. The ones gathering almost all of the operationally useful intel in Afgh were the US when I was there, and I assume the same is true now. The stereotypical nonsensical assumptions about how the US operate in Afghanistan are exemplified by Howie Marsh's silly comment. IMHO it just reeks of this phony Canadian holier-than-thou that turns my stomach. It is also based on the assumption that the average Afghan hates or signifcantly dislikes the US. I don't believe that this is true. The ones that hate the US will hate all Western, English speaking foreigners anyway. We are not in Afgh as a UN Ch VI "peace-keeping force", although some people still don't seem to get this fact. We are the US' allies and we need to start acting like it, not proposing to hide behind different coloured uniforms (or pulling other dumb stunts whether military or political)   in the hopes that US troops will take the IED or VBIED or sniper shot and ours won't.

The success in Afghanistan can, ovewhelmingly, be credited to the US and its forces. After that, to the Afghans themselves. ISAF (particularly the wretched, inert ISAF VI that I served as an LO...) runs a very distant third, with some member nations dropping way below that.

Cheers.


----------



## Infanteer (26 Apr 2005)

Armymedic said:
			
		

> I call BS on that, the average Afghan does not/can not tell us apart from the Americans. Not the ANA, and definately not the uneducated masses in the villages...until we tell them the difference. To them, we are all white english speaking westerners, and arid digi pat cam doesn't help.
> 
> So this "concern" about beng too close to the Americans, is just Canadian political crap.
> 
> ...



Words from a troop at the coal face - thanks Armymedic.


----------



## KevinB (26 Apr 2005)

Heck half the Germans, brits and EVEN Americans though we where Americans...

 A buddy of mine got in an argument at Camp Phoenix about something (which I won't discuss in the 'open' - but lets just say it involved the term "Haji"  ) The young US Army Specialist gave him a lecture that as Americans we should be setting an example --> He thought we where Marines  :


----------



## Matt_Fisher (26 Apr 2005)

KevinB said:
			
		

> ...He thought we where Marines   :



I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted...lol   ;D


----------



## Edward Campbell (26 Apr 2005)

OK, point taken; Howie Marsh is talking through his hat; I, in turn, should be more careful about agreeing with black hats.    But: I still agree with Marsh that _"There's a political dimension to that decision certainly, but there's also a military dimension ...â Å“_ It may well be that he is wrong when he says, _â Å“... it can distance you from the locals, which cuts you off from the intelligence and all the relationships you are trying to develop with them."_

I remain convinced that senior army officers, with recent operational experience, endorsed, even if they might not have originated the idea of remaining _aloof_, shall we say, from our American friends.   Some of the senior army officers could, with relative ease, have forced a decision to collocate with the Americans if they felt, and were prepared to state, in the relative privacy (no press) of the 13th floor Ops centre briefing room, that troop safety argued for such collocation.


----------



## Scoobie Newbie (26 Apr 2005)

Since you peaked my interest Kev perhaps you can cont... this in the low ground.


----------



## Armymedic (27 Apr 2005)

Edward Campbell said:
			
		

> I remain convinced that senior army officers, with recent operational experience, endorsed, even if they might not have originated the idea of remaining _aloof_, shall we say, from our American friends.   Some of the senior army officers could, with relative ease, have forced a decision to collocate with the Americans if they felt, and were prepared to state, in the relative privacy (no press) of the 13th floor Ops centre briefing room, that troop safety argued for such collocation.



Yes, but it is just as likely such recommendations would have been dismissed by those who have more political aspirations...


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (9 May 2005)

I was also routinely mistaken for an American or Brit when talking to locals downtown.  I think that we Canadians sometimes overestimate the world's knowledge of us! I'd smile and point to the little Canadian Flag under the shoulder pad, but most still did not know what that meant.  Still, a couple of older Afghans did know about Canada through relatives that had come here during the war.  I imagine that the locals know us a little more know after a couple of years but I could be wrong.

The bottom line is that the bad guys will target any Westerners. 

2B

p.s. I thought that ISAF and KMNB did a pretty good job, but perhaps I was wearing rose coloured goggles.


----------



## pbi (9 May 2005)

2Bravo said:
			
		

> I
> p.s. I thought that ISAF and KMNB did a pretty good job, but perhaps I was wearing rose coloured goggles.



If you were there on ISAF V under Gen Hillier, you efforts are well remembered. As I pointed out in one of my earlier posts, the US forces had high respect for Gen Hillier and his Canadians on ISAF V, and realized that under his leadership (with a healthy salting of Canadian commanders and staff throughout the ISAF structure incl KMNB), ISAF V was at least capable. My disgust, along with that of others like Teddy Ruxpin who served there at the same time I did, was directed at ISAF VI which was a useless shambles "led" (if you can use that term) by EuroCorps. 

Cheers.


----------



## TangoTwoBravo (9 May 2005)

I was on Roto 0, which I think was called ISAF IV.  We were working for a Canadian KMNB HQ and MGen Leslie was the DCom at ISAF HQ so we were well looked after.  As a Brigade asset we worked with all contingents but the good news was that there was always a senior Canadian officer somewhere above us in the tactical picture.  In addition, ISTAR Coy was based on Recce Sqn RCD and we were working for our habitual Bde HQ.  

I came back with a heightened sense of just how capable our Army is in terms of people, equipment and training.  We could probably streamline our command and service support structure somewhat (along the BRITFOR lines) and there are always things to improve but otherwise I think that we have a lot to be proud of.

2B


----------



## pbi (10 May 2005)

2Bravo said:
			
		

> I came back with a heightened sense of just how capable our Army is in terms of people, equipment and training.   We could probably streamline our command and service support structure somewhat (along the BRITFOR lines) and there are always things to improve but otherwise I think that we have a lot to be proud of.
> 
> 2B


So did I, and that is more or less the feeling I have come with from every mission I've been on. We have problems: that's for sure-and we need to face that fact and keep working on fixing them. But, my rough guess is that all things considered (not just how much high tech kit, or how many people, but all  things...) we are the equal of almost anybody and better than most. The US certainly holds sway over us in a number of areas, but we can fit in and work very well with them too.

Cheers


----------



## Cdnronin (18 Oct 2006)

Over the past year I've read alot of press about the Regular Force units who are ROTO into Afghanistan and almost nothing is being said about the contributions being made by our reserve and militia units.   Its seems the only time we hear about a reservist is when he is killed or wounded. They are making an important and honourable effort to the war - why are we not more vocal about their involvement?

Which militia units have sent agumentees ? and how many?

These are the ones I knows of...

Lake Superior Scottish, Royal Westminster Regt, Essex-Kent Scottish and Loyal Edmonton Regt.  who else?


----------



## George Wallace (18 Oct 2006)

Well.....I can say that if you had been reading a lot of the posts on the site since you joined, you would have seen that many Reservists are going on Tour.  Many have posted that they were doing training to go to, or had returned from Afghanistan.  You would have read the excellent post from RHFC_piper that we have posted on the Army.ca Home Page as well as in the Home Front "Dealing with being home from Kandahar".  You seem to have missed the Forest for all the Trees.  

This is a good spot for many others to post their Regiments and Units and what they are doing in this war on terror.


----------



## medaid (18 Oct 2006)

a buddy of mine from the 6th Field Engineering Sqn out here in BC came back not too long ago.

I knew a guy from the British Columbia Regiment who was over there in one of the earlier ROTOs...doing things....


----------



## childs56 (18 Oct 2006)

5th (BC) Fd Regt RCA,  RIP Miles.


----------



## MP 811 (18 Oct 2006)

the Argyll's have had a few over there as well.


----------



## medaid (18 Oct 2006)

CTD said:
			
		

> 5th (BC) Fd Regt RCA,  RIP Miles.



Lest We Forget...


----------



## Redeye (18 Oct 2006)

There are also members of the Hastings & Prince Edward Regiment over there right now, and many more looking to go on future task forces by the sounds of it.  Regular emails suggest they're busy.


----------



## JBP (18 Oct 2006)

Quite a few from many Reserve units are over there really. It is several hundred on each TF, there are about 6 people from my unit, the Lincoln and Welland Regiment, that are either already over there doing thier part... One of them came back on holidays last week and gave us a presentation on his experience thus far. He was involved with Op Medusa etc etc.... Quite the eye opener to say the least. 

Goodluck to all those who are 'in theatre' right now...

Non Nobis Sed Patriae!


----------



## booted (18 Oct 2006)

I've spent quite some time this morning reading various posts and I have found quite a bit regarding this subject.
The front page actually has one story that should be read. It moved me a bit when I read it yesterday.


----------



## x-grunt (18 Oct 2006)

The are other elements there too...I know NavRes has sent people over in the past and at least 1 NavRes is currently with the PRT. I think he is from HMCS Chippewa? (Might be wrong about that.)


----------



## the 48th regulator (18 Oct 2006)

48th Highlanders are there.

dileas

tess


----------



## nsmedicman (18 Oct 2006)

AFAIK....with 1-07.....there will be infanteers from each of the units within 36 & 37 Bde, to augment 2RCR, including at least 20 from the local unit (1NSH) Are there any from the other units going as well?


----------



## Sig_Des (18 Oct 2006)

MULTIPLE Communications Reservists...763 (Ottawa) Communications Regiment, among others.


----------



## career_radio-checker (18 Oct 2006)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> MULTIPLE Communications Reservists...763 (Ottawa) Communications Regiment, among others.



I know people from 709(Toronto) and 744(Vancouver) just got back this summer.


----------



## Teflon (18 Oct 2006)

Had a Regina Rifle with my PL on my rotation (the evil little Gnome!)


----------



## Devlin (18 Oct 2006)

26 SVC BN (North Bay) has been over as well.


----------



## George Wallace (18 Oct 2006)

There are Reserve Int Ops on every Tour.


----------



## dapaterson (18 Oct 2006)

In August, the last month I have figures for, there were members of virtually every unit of the Army Reserve on class C service deployed on operations, preparing to deploy, or on standby on the second line of operations.  Different branches have different participation rates, but you'll find Reservists from all units, in all trades, at all ranks from Pte to BGen deploying on operations.

In other words, for a list of units providing personnel on operations, you could look at this topic:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30154.0.html


----------



## RHFC_piper (18 Oct 2006)

My Regiment (RHFC) has quite a few in Afghanistan right now (9)...

Almost half are with 1 RCR and the rest are with NSE / Other.

Since I'm home now, I've been trying to organize care packages and christmas video messages for them.

BTW.  If your reserve unit has anyone over there who is outside the wire a lot, and you want to send them usefull stuff in a care package; Wet wipes, Brush ups (disposable tooth brushes), small snacks (Sun flower seeds, nut, power bars, etc.), reading material, and vitamins (they don't eat much... I left a huge bottle of multi vitamins in the LAV).  All this stuff helps... especially wet wipes (aka, field shower)

Cheers,

- Piper


----------



## Haggis (18 Oct 2006)

There are six members of the Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders deployed in Afghanistan, ranging in rank from Major to Cpl.



			
				RHFC_piper said:
			
		

> If your reserve unit has anyone over there who is outside the wire a lot, and you want to send them usefull stuff in a care package; Wet wipes, Brush ups (disposable tooth brushes), small snacks (Sun flower seeds, nut, power bars, etc.), reading material, and vitamins (they don't eat much... I left a huge bottle of multi vitamins in the LAV).  All this stuff helps... especially wet wipes (aka, field shower)



Good on ya, Piper.  A local service club "adopted" the six Glens and several other Reg F soldiers from the same city and has sent care packages including those items and much more.  The big requested item was beef jerky.

Good luck on your recovery.


----------



## PhilB (18 Oct 2006)

There were about 30Calg Highrs on TF 1-06


----------



## RHFC_piper (18 Oct 2006)

Haggis said:
			
		

> There are six members of the Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders deployed in Afghanistan, ranging in rank from Major to Cpl.
> 
> Good on ya, Piper.  A local service club "adopted" the six Glens and several other Reg F soldiers from the same city and has sent care packages including those items and much more.  The big requested item was beef jerky.
> 
> Good luck on your recovery.



Any kind of snacky foods are greatly appreciated over there.. preferably healthy stuff.. Eating IMPs every day is just wrong, and having something like Beef Jerky or breakfast bars really breaks up the monotony.  

The day I was wounded, I had a blueberry pop tart and a bag of sweet chili flavoured chips for breakfast... not the healthiest, I know, but it beats IMP Omlette with Salsa... for the 8th time in a row... cold... ugh.

Just don't send C Coy any Combo's (the cheese filled Pretzel bits)... we had lots... we got sick of them.  I never want to see a Cheddar Jalapeno Combo again for the rest of my life.


----------



## brihard (18 Oct 2006)

Eight Camerons from Ottawa deployed that I'm aware of- though we might have had one or two more go over short notice on support roles that I'm not aware of. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know exactly. An Lt., a Sgt., and six Cpls.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (18 Oct 2006)

nsmedicman said:
			
		

> AFAIK....with 1-07.....there will be infanteers from each of the units within 36 & 37 Bde, to augment 2RCR, including at least 20 from the local unit (1NSH) Are there any from the other units going as well?



More than just infanteers...

My Regiment has quite a few going.  No numbers or positions for obvious reasons.  Some that trained me...some that I trained...

There is one that is from Tess's Regiment that works with my unit that is over now...he emailed me last week..."I am more tired, dirty and alive than I have ever been".

Stay safe boys     

Sticks on the ice...


----------



## Trinity (18 Oct 2006)

most regiments sent about 8 personnel

don't quote me... but that seems the norm in LFCA

Tor Scots sent 8, Royals sent some that I know of, so I'm 
sure just about every regt sent some type of support


----------



## Coyote43D (20 Oct 2006)

A guy I know from the Brockville Rifles is over there right now. I've been told that my driver for 1-07 is from the PEIR I just got told on Tuesday that I was going to be going as a Gunner in an Engineer  LAV in February, so I haven't met my driver or crew commander yet.


----------



## armyvern (21 Oct 2006)

Just from the Res Units here on the Island, all will be represented on TF1-07

18 from the Armd Recce mentionned in the post below;
2 from the Comm Sqn;
and 2 NavRes who will be serving aboard ships.

It is garnering it's fair share of media attention in this province. The little one-person staff of the MFRC here in my building is very very busy but not just with the members above families and loved ones, there are a whole lot of Islanders in-theatre now doing their part.


----------



## Pte.Shrubb (21 Oct 2006)

My unit (Princess Louise Fusiliers) has sent a few people over with the NCE.


----------



## Lost_Warrior (24 Oct 2006)

The Royal Canadian Hussars currently has 6 people doing work up for 03-07


----------



## The_Falcon (24 Oct 2006)

the 48th regulator said:
			
		

> 48th Highlanders are there.
> 
> dileas
> 
> tess



And one of them got quoted in the star last month to boot!  Figures a 48th would compare Kandahar to working in Jane and Finch mall.


----------



## boehm (24 Oct 2006)

career_radio-checker said:
			
		

> I know people from 709(Toronto) and 744(Vancouver) just got back this summer.



The last four people from 744 on Op Archer are returning next week. We have five more, including myself, who are nominated for TF Afghan Roto 3.


----------



## Highland Laddie (2 Nov 2006)

735 Comms here in the Peg has sent a few, as well as the RWR

Our Padre is over there right now at Nathan Smith. One member of the Regt just came back, and we're looking at 20-25 for TF 01-08.


----------



## once a gunner (2 Nov 2006)

The 11th Fd Regt RCA from Guelph and Hamilton have about 6-8 Gun Bunnies all ranks over right now


----------



## Trinity (2 Nov 2006)

Highland Laddie said:
			
		

> 735 Comms here in the Peg has sent a few, as well as the RWR
> 
> Our Padre is over there right now at Nathan Smith. One member of the Regt just came back, and we're looking at 20-25 for TF 01-08.



It was supposed to be OUR padre.. but situation came up and he had to pull pin half way through training......   :-[


----------



## RangerRay (2 Nov 2006)

I'm curious if any RMRangers have served or are serving in Afghanistan.

The Regiment was well represented in Yugo.


----------



## Dragoon19 (3 Nov 2006)

The South Alberta light Horse (RCAC) had 18 on Roto 1 if you include the DComd.
 It is the most we have sent on a mission since WWII


----------



## PPCLI Guy (4 Nov 2006)

Dragoon19 said:
			
		

> The South Alberta light Horse (RCAC) had 18 on Roto 1 if you include the DComd.
> It is the most we have sent on a mission since WWII



Ah yes - the NCE - aka SALH Fwd


----------



## PhilB (4 Nov 2006)

ya.... it was tons of fun  :


----------



## R031button (5 Nov 2006)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> I'm curious if any RMRangers have served or are serving in Afghanistan.
> 
> The Regiment was well represented in Yugo.



We have three gearing up for 1-07 with a company from 3 PPCLI. Currently 8 of us are going throught he process to get on TF Afghanistan Roto 5.


----------



## RangerRay (5 Nov 2006)

Wow, that's quite the showing for a small regiment.  Is the Association doing much to support you guys, and those who have returned?  How is the community support?

What's the attendance like on parade nights?  When I was in in the mid 90's, we would be lucky to muster a platoon for A Coy.


----------



## Highland Laddie (8 Nov 2006)

Trinity said:
			
		

> It was supposed to be OUR padre.. but situation came up and he had to pull pin half way through training......   :-[



Really? Our Padre was in the training rotation from the beginning, so maybe something else occurred, so someone else shifted spots. 

My understanding (from the Padre net) is that the Padre rotations are being controlled nationally from the 'Padre net on high' at NDHQ. Our guy was told this rotation or none, even though he wanted to go with our lads on TF 01-08. Stranger things have happened.


----------



## Dissident (8 Nov 2006)

15 MP Coy:

5 pers with 1 MP Pl from Jan 06 to august 06
3 pers with TF 1-07 Composite MP Coy
Talk is to have a full reserve MP platoon deploying for TF 1-08, part of the MP Coy


----------



## JSR OP (8 Nov 2006)

Although not serving in Afghanistan, one CommRes Sqn out west has a few pers deploying to "Sunny SouthWest Asia" on Roto 3 soon.  With them, and the token T.O. Person, the reservists will man over 50% of the det.  I hope all goes well, and I know they will enjoy themselves.. as long as they remember the 2 beer per man per day rule!   I'd hate to any of them return too soon, especially after what it has taken to get them out the door!


----------



## 211RadOp (8 Nov 2006)

There are Comm Reservists in every detachment sent out from CFJSR. As a matter of fact, the next detachment to CM is going be be all Comm Res except for the Det 2 I/C.


----------



## JSR OP (8 Nov 2006)

211RadOp said:
			
		

> There are Comm Reservists in every detachment sent out from CFJSR. As a matter of fact, the next detachment to CM is going be be all Comm Res except for the Det 2 I/C.



Yes and no.

Two techs, 1 Op, in addition to the 2IC, are Reg Force with the remaining being reservists


----------



## 211RadOp (8 Nov 2006)

You're right, I forgot about the techs. Easy to do. And the other Op is replacing the fellow that DAGed Red.


----------



## JSR OP (8 Nov 2006)

Funny how we like to forget the techs  ;D


----------



## Sig_Des (8 Nov 2006)

JSR OP said:
			
		

> Funny how we like to forget the techs  ;D



They just make it so easy...


----------



## glenndon (8 Nov 2006)

Sig_Des said:
			
		

> They just make it so easy...



I'll just sit here and collect my spec pay, and you can forget about me all you want.  Oh that's right, you operators never forget about us when you finally need your equipment to work.   :


----------



## Sig_Des (8 Nov 2006)

glenndon said:
			
		

> Oh that's right, you operators never forget about us when you finally need your equipment to work.   :



Well, only when the drop-test fix doesn't work ;D


----------



## JSR OP (8 Nov 2006)

glenndon said:
			
		

> I'll just sit here and collect my spec pay, and you can forget about me all you want.  Oh that's right, you operators never forget about us when you finally need your equipment to work.   :




I was wondering when we would hear from you glenndon!


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (8 Nov 2006)

JSR OP said:
			
		

> I was wondering when we would hear from you glenndon!



awwww now you scared him away!  There was 3 of you and 1 227er!


----------



## glenndon (8 Nov 2006)

Mud Recce Man!  Nice to hear from you!  Aren't you doing an Sig Op type job?

And yes all you Sig Ops, you should be afraid, a combat arms/black beret type doing one of your jobs. . .  and you want spec pay??   ???

At least MRM has seen the light, and has applied to go 226.  Smart guy I say!!

Awwww JSR Op, nice to know you care!!

Glenn


----------



## DSB (8 Nov 2006)

We have some members from 23 FD AMB over there.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (8 Nov 2006)

glenndon said:
			
		

> Mud Recce Man!  Nice to hear from you!  *Aren't you doing an Sig Op type job*?
> 
> And yes all you Sig Ops, you should be afraid, a combat arms/black beret type doing one of your jobs. . .  and you want spec pay??   ???
> 
> ...



Don't even get my started.  I have the most unmilitary job in the military.  "A-typically employed" as my PER says.   :

I am a civiliaSergeant...

226 is my current goal but...but...tic toc tic toc.

I _may_ be CRA before that CT goes thru...maybe...maybe they have something lined up for me and are waitin to give it to me at Christmas...

"Everyone who is going to STILL be in the CF after Leave step forward.  WHERE ARE YOU GOING MRM!  STEP BACK YOU!"


----------



## Sig_Des (8 Nov 2006)

glenndon said:
			
		

> Mud Recce Man!  Nice to hear from you!  Aren't you doing an Sig Op type job?
> 
> And yes all you Sig Ops, you should be afraid, a combat arms/black beret type doing one of your jobs. . .  and you want spec pay??   ???
> 
> ...



Glenn, don't even start.

Just so you're aware, I spent the 10 days in Wainwright working with and *GASP* teaching techs. In fact, sometimes it FEELS like I'm doing a technicians job. Esp when it comes to building vehicle installations.


----------



## 17thRecceSgt (8 Nov 2006)

Would this constitute a thread hijack? ;D


----------



## Angry_Infanteer (9 Nov 2006)

I wish i was there right now...


----------



## R031button (11 Nov 2006)

RangerRay said:
			
		

> Wow, that's quite the showing for a small regiment.  Is the Association doing much to support you guys, and those who have returned?  How is the community support?
> 
> What's the attendance like on parade nights?  When I was in in the mid 90's, we would be lucky to muster a platoon for A Coy.



 Pretty much as per, we're at a full platton ow (woohoo) but it's still a very small unit. We haven't had any return, the first bunch of us will be going over in Feburary, and then a year later the second batch of us will be going over.


----------



## Sgt_McWatt (11 Nov 2006)

Some from 4 RCR, S Coy have gone over and are going over. One person is actually beginning work up in 9 days ha ha.


----------



## RangerRay (11 Nov 2006)

R031button said:
			
		

> Pretty much as per, we're at a full platton ow (woohoo) but it's still a very small unit. We haven't had any return, the first bunch of us will be going over in Feburary, and then a year later the second batch of us will be going over.



Kloshe nanitch, Rangers.  Be safe and come home.


----------



## The Rifleman (30 Nov 2006)

The TA in Britain are getting pretty much the same deal in regards to media exposure. The most recent mention was a heroic defence action below.

_When a key strategic town in Afghanistan's Helmand Province fell to the Taliban, British commanders ordered that it must be retaken as a top priority. But with the UK's main fighting units locked in bloody battles further north, it was left to a ragtag band of 12 British soldiers, including TA reservists and medics, to lead a force of barely-trained Afghan soldiers and police across Taliban-held the desert. They hoped to retake the town of Garmisir within 24 hours. In fact they faced an astonishing 14 day close-quarter battle - isolated, heavily outnumbered and fighting for their lives in an action reminiscent of Rorke's Drift._ 

but this is an isolated case. Most tours by TA units go by un-noticed by the public in the UK. Local papers sometimes mention them, but most seem to refrain so as not to upset their Muslim readers.


----------



## Rad (2 Dec 2006)

The guys from 1 and 2 RNFLDR are getting ready to go over on 1-07.

R.


----------



## Fraser.g (3 Dec 2006)

One CCNO from 17 Fd Amb just left, one CCNO from 16 is still there, two from the PRL  and a Sgt from one of the Fd Ambs in Que.


----------



## bran (23 Jul 2009)

Can a reservist apply for a tour if they are SQ qualified? I was told this by someone and was just seeking confirmation. I'd really like to get on one of the final tours by 2011 but I won't be fully qualified in time, however I will have SQ.

Thanks


----------



## Jarnhamar (23 Jul 2009)

Afraid not.

Even fully trained reservists with previous tours are having a hard time fighting for spots on tour.


----------



## Haggis (23 Jul 2009)

I have seen Reg F members deploy without completing SQ (but having their DP1 due to out-of-sequence training).

However, in competition with other Reservists who are fully qualified and looking for a tour, your chances are none to nil.

Don't worry, though.  Another war will be along shortly.


----------



## DEVES (24 Jul 2009)

> Afraid not.
> 
> Even fully trained reservists with previous tours are having a hard time fighting for spots on tour.



Not sure if your right about that^, there was plenty of positions for TF3-09 for reservists. 

As for going to Afghanistan with just SQ, might be possible, But don't get all caught up in wanting to just go to Afghanistan, its not a glorious place to be . Do your training and get your trade and i am sure there will be other tours popping up.


----------



## Jarnhamar (24 Jul 2009)

ONT is reserve infantry keep in mind.

The regular force already has enough of a problem working along side fully qualified reservists with multiple tours under their belt.  Are they going to accept a reservists who's not even fully qualified?  
The reg -/- reservist relationship has improved a lot over the last 10 years but their is still a huge 'you can't do my job' attitude.

The manning process is weird. They ask for reservists, a ton show up then they have too many reservists for the positions to be filled send a bunch home then a month before employing they start screaming that they don't have enough people for the job and where the hell did the reservists go.


----------



## OldSolduer (24 Jul 2009)

Flawed Design speaks wisely.

A few weeks ago a peer of mine who is to deply on TF 3-09 asked me if I had any Sgts or MCpls that could deploy. He is short a whole whack.

The relationship between 2VP and the local Infantry Reserve Units in Winnipeg is pretty darned good right now.


----------



## Roy Harding (24 Jul 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> ...
> The manning process is weird.
> ...



Yes it is.  And it always was.  If it makes you feel any better - it is not only Reservists this happens to.  Although I will say that the potential impact on a Reservist is certainly more severe (the Reg guy still has a job, after all).

I used to call it the "TO &E" Tango.

There are many reasons for it - tactical situation in the mission area changes.  Incoming CO has different ideas regarding manning than existing CO.  Government changes the mission at the last minute.  Some ALLIED government changes THEIR mission at the last minute.  Ad nauseum.

BUT - (this is based on much experience both manning and deploying on various missions) - much (perhaps most) of the problems regarding manning boil down quite simply to poor communications.  Poor communication from NDHQ to Area (and back), poor communication from Area to Bde (and back), poor communication Bde to tasked unit (and back).  And it has been so since at LEAST 1984, when I first became involved (at least peripherally, and in an extremely minor role) in manning a SNOWGOOSE Roto.

I don't know why that is - I know for a FACT that all those HQs are manned (for the most part) by good, intelligent, hardworking, dedicated service men who have only the best intentions, and GENUINELY are trying to keep the confusion out of it, and make it easy on the deploying troops - but it never works.

It seems to be a military thing (not just CF) - and goes back many, many, many years - I'm sure there's an amateur (or professional) military historian on here who can quote a Roman or Greek commander lamenting the same thing.

I dunno' what the answer is - and it would appear neither do folks many pay grades above mine.


Roy


----------



## bran (24 Jul 2009)

Thanks for the replies, I suppose I won't get discouraged about it. Maybe we'll end up staying for a few more years, who knows. When parliament talks about ending the current mission, could that be something as simple as moving operations into another province (ie, Helmand)?


----------



## len173 (24 Jul 2009)

> Thanks for the replies, I suppose I won't get discouraged about it. Maybe we'll end up staying for a few more years, who knows. When parliament talks about ending the current mission, could that be something as simple as moving operations into another province (ie, Helmand)?



That doesn't seem to be the case. The door was left open, given that the 'end date' only stated that the troops would leave Kandahar province by 2011. Since then the conservatives have said that the bulk of troops will leave the country, not just the AO, and a small contingent will stay in some role.

However, who knows what that means? Maybe there will be PRT's, OMLT's staying?

It's been reported that U.S. lobby groups are working on a possible request of the Harper govt. to keep the troops there past 2011. Personlly I think Harper wants to stay, but he's playing politics to stay alive. He's not stupid and knows pulling an about face, or looking as if he mislead the country would be a death sentence for his government. Therefore it needs to be very calculated if they are thinking of staying.

I don't see it happening, but i wish it would as well, as I'm going to be in your shoes pretty soon. There will be more tours, and lots of other experiences in the army though.


----------



## Jarnhamar (25 Jul 2009)

ONT, you applied for ED&T and now you want to get on tour?



			
				ONT said:
			
		

> I don't mean to go a little off topic but this is the best spot I figured to ask this question. After talking to the unit clerk and due to some confusion I may be declared NES. Although I have put in for a ED&T form as of today so hopefully I'm not already NES. So my question is would having an NES on your record be a hindrance for applying to CSOR or JTF2 even though it should have easily been avoided and wasn't really my fault.


http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/59378.0.html


----------



## bran (25 Jul 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> ONT, you applied for ED&T and now you want to get on tour?
> http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/59378.0.html


Yes I did, I don't see why that has anything to do with getting on a tour though. I wasn't scheduled for any courses for the time I requested the ED&T, just parade nights. It was only for a few weeks.


----------



## Jarnhamar (26 Jul 2009)

ONT said:
			
		

> Yes I did, I don't see why that has anything to do with getting on a tour though. I wasn't scheduled for any courses for the time I requested the ED&T, just parade nights. It was only for a few weeks.



I wouldn't pick a soldier who requested to be exempt from training over a soldier who showed up every night for training and every exercise that's all.
As long as you show up one parade night a month (4 weeks) you don't need to go ED&T, I believe ED&T is intended for longer periods of time.

If your stuck at SQ level waiting on your infantry course all I can do is recommend attending as much training as possible.


----------



## bran (26 Jul 2009)

Flawed Design said:
			
		

> I wouldn't pick a soldier who requested to be exempt from training over a soldier who showed up every night for training and every exercise that's all.
> As long as you show up one parade night a month (4 weeks) you don't need to go ED&T, I believe ED&T is intended for longer periods of time.
> 
> If your stuck at SQ level waiting on your infantry course all I can do is recommend attending as much training as possible.


That's true. However I didn't request ED&T just so I didn't have to train, I was in a mess up situation, but that's besides the point. I appreciate your replies.


----------



## BigLou42 (13 Aug 2009)

Hi guys, me again

Sorry if this is in the wrong board, I couldn't find where to put it. I was wondering, if I were to join an Infantry Reserve regiment in Vancouver, is it possible I could be shipped to Afghanistan? And if so, how long would I be shipped there for?

Thanks,
BigLou42


----------



## 1feral1 (13 Aug 2009)

I can't beleive you posted this too.

Welcome aboard, but don't expect any of us to do your leg work for you.


----------



## Loachman (13 Aug 2009)

Search Function. Learn to use it.


----------



## logmore (4 Mar 2010)

I am looking for some information from reservists who have deployed on Class C Contracts to Afghanistan.  I am attempting to put some stats together for a document i am writing. 

 I would like to know the following;

1.  On what tour did you deploy 

2. Did you relinquish your rank to get a position on the tour. 

3. If you did relinquish rank did do it voluntarily or was it a condition of the tour 

4. If you did relinquish rank how many ranks did you drop

5. If you did not relinquish rank how did you reserve IPC compare to your Class C IPC?


 the more data I can get the more accurate my info will be and the greater its effect might be.  I would prefer this info in the form of a message rather than a post in case i need to clarify some of the facts

 thanks in advance


----------



## dangerboy (4 Mar 2010)

Gotta ask, what is the document for? Is it for a school research project?


----------



## Fishbone Jones (5 Mar 2010)

Just who would be even remotely interested in this document. This situation isn't new or exciting. It is also a SOP in quite a few cases for Reserve deployment\ employment.

Sound like someone feels short changed and needs ammo for a redress.

Let's cut the bullshit. Tell us the truth so we don't have to chase down the facts. We can likely do this in a few responses if you're up front. Otherwise, we'll be doing this thread for weeks and you still won't have an answer.


----------



## Haggis (5 Mar 2010)

recceguy said:
			
		

> Just who would be even remotely interested in this document.


 D Res, for one.



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> This situation isn't new or exciting. It is also a SOP in quite a few cases for Reserve deployment\ employment.


  Voluntary reliqushments, yes (i.e. Sgt deployed in a MCpl position - overranked - reverts to a MCpl).  Involuntary relinquishments, no (i.e. Sgt deployed in a Sgt position reverted to MCpl).



			
				recceguy said:
			
		

> Let's cut the bullshit. Tell us the truth so we don't have to chase down the facts. We can likely do this in a few responses if you're up front.



Yes, please do.


----------



## Jarnhamar (5 Mar 2010)

I found the biggest issue was Res members being short changed due largely to messed up MPRs. I think that's what they are called anyways.   With 5 years plus chane of class B and C service as a Corporal I still had someone telling me I was only Cpl (1).

Because of the "Your contract isn't secure! You can be fired any minute!" threat constantly thrown at reservists most guys and girls didn't even bother to argue for themselves.


----------

