# How bad has airline travel become in North America?



## jollyjacktar (2 Dec 2011)

Seeing as I don't fly often and it's usually Air Canada I was left agog today with the statement on the radio that Air Canada has been voted the best in North America.  How bad has it become elsewhere with other airlines?  I still think that Air Canada sucks when compared to the others I have traveled with in the past and has only become worse.


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## mariomike (2 Dec 2011)

It can always get worse:
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/2010-09-10-airlinestanding10_ST_N.htm


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## BernDawg (2 Dec 2011)

Wow, really? Obviously the voters never flew on West-Jet.  ;D

Are you sure it wasn't an Air Canada commercial?


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## mariomike (2 Dec 2011)

Reminds me of a joke I heard.

A guy sitting at an airport bar noticed a beautiful woman sitting next to him. He thought to himself, "Wow, she's so gorgeous she must be a flight attendant; but which airline does she work for?"

Hoping to pick her up, he leaned towards her and said, "Love to fly and it shows?"

She gave him a blank, confused stare and he immediately thought to himself, she doesn't work for Delta.

A few seconds later, another slogan popped into his head. He leaned towards her again, "Something special in the air?"

She gave him the same confused look. He mentally kicked himself and scratched American Airlines off of the list.

Next he tried "I would really love to fly your friendly skies?"

This time the woman barked back at him "Man, what the heck do you want?"

The man smiled, then slumped back in his chair, "Ahhh, Air Canada".


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## jollyjacktar (2 Dec 2011)

BernDawg said:
			
		

> Wow, really? Obviously the voters never flew on West-Jet.  ;D
> 
> Are you sure it wasn't an Air Canada commercial?



Nope.  It was on the local news talk radio.  I can't remember how many folks were surveyed.  (4000 or 40000 IIRC)  I hate flying AC myself, but seeing as I'm not paying for the ride...


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## mariomike (2 Dec 2011)

Sun:
"Air Canada voted best airline in North America";
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/02/air-canada-voted-best-airline-in-north-america

Related topics:
"Air Canada Rant":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/76805.0
( 5 pages )


"Air Canada Case Study in Alienating Passengers, Public";
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/95735.0/nowap.html
"There is a common saying among fliers in this country that 'Air Canada is not happy until you're not happy.' "


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## cupper (2 Dec 2011)

It's not just the airlines that make the experience akin to methods of enhanced interrogation. I'm not sure about the experience north of the border (as it has been a few years since I've flown back home), but the security process in major US airports can make water boarding a calm soothing experience in comparison.

The best experience I had was in Chicago Midway, which has someone who knows what they were doing devise three or four streams for passengers going through security. One for families and travelers who need assistance, another for novice travelers, and one for frequent flyers. All get the same level of scrutiny, but the number of lanes devoted to each type differs, with frequent flyers getting only a couple of lanes, but they go faster because they typically have packed light, know the process by heart and things run through smooth.  

Worst experience was in Providence Rhode Island. After being stuck for 3 days trying to get out due to an ice storm that screwed up travel up and down the coast, had to face security lines for the 3rd straight day. And to top it off, it was spring break so most people were headed south to get away from winter. The couple ahead of me had no clue about the restrictions on liquids and gels. She tried to get her cosmetics and beauty products through the screening, only to be told that she couldn't. (after dozens of announcements by screeners reminding people). After explaining to her she was limited to 3 ounces max, and only what could fit in a quart size zip lock bag, she tries to shove large shampoo and conditioner bottles into a sandwich bag, along with all of the other cosmetics and so forth. After holding up the line for 5 minutes, the screener could see I was about to go off on her, so he kindly suggested that the couple step aside and let the rest of us go ahead. Twenty minutes later all you could hear at the gate was her bitching about having to check her bag, and how if any of her expensive products was lost or damaged, the airport and TSA were going to pay. :facepalm:

Pretty soon, we are all going to have to start flying naked. ;D


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## bcbarman (28 Dec 2011)

I'm just amazed that the CATSA have enough forthought to let Nexus card holders (for travel to the US and Canada) use an express lane though domestic screening.  OMG! next you will be telling me that a 15 min interview can screen out a terrorist.  you know that this is a management top-down thing to reduce wait times, no other reason.


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## cupper (28 Dec 2011)

bcbarman said:
			
		

> I'm just amazed that the CATSA have enough forthought to let Nexus card holders (for travel to the US and Canada) use an express lane though domestic screening.  OMG! next you will be telling me that a 15 min interview can screen out a terrorist.  you know that this is a management top-down thing to reduce wait times, no other reason.



Where did you see that security screening for NEXUS card holders was going to have a separate express line? My understanding was that this was only for Customs and Immigration.


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## bcbarman (28 Dec 2011)

the main purpose is customs and immigration, but in Vancouver airport (and I think I saw it in Montreal) they have a dedicated line during the peak hours for Nexus holders.

I may be biased, but I love my nexus card (and recommend everyone gets one soon, the plan is changing, as well as the fee)


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## Pistos (29 Dec 2011)

bcbarman said:
			
		

> OMG! next you will be telling me that a 15 min interview can screen out a terrorist.  you know that this is a management top-down thing to reduce wait times, no other reason.



I fear you're a bit misled if you believe that the 15 min NEXUS interview is the extent of the screening.  Before you're invited to the interview you must fill out an application almost akin to a security clearance upgrade (I've filled out both within the past 6 months). US Department of Homeland Security initiates background checks by the RCMP, CSIS, Interpol and the United Nations and after a number of weeks (8 in my case) they _*may*_ invite you to schedule the 'interview' where they meet you in person, take fingerprints and an retina scan and issue you the card.

At least one senator is proposing that NEXUS card holders be allowed to bypass airport security entirely http://www.theprovince.com/travel/NEXUS+card+holders+bypass+airport+security+screening+Senator/5849243/story.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3a+canwest%2fF228+(The+Province+-+News)&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

While I do not necessarily agree with this Senator's proposal it does speak to an alternate approach to security...screening individuals rather than every person's stuff.  

Perhaps NEXUS customers could be screened as we screen CF Members boarding our own aircraft - we start with the assumption that our passengers do not have any malicious intent.  Baggage inspections are done and each Member is given a short interview to advise of items that could be dangerous to fly with but because these travelers are pre-screened as being trusted, physical measures such are baggage inspections are the smallest part of the CF's air travel security equation.

Almost every air traveler is just a normal person for whom the airlines should have no cause for concern.  The NEXUS card simply identifies you as belonging to the majority.  I for one am looking forward to my next international flight where I can flash my card, scan my eyes and take the short lines  ;D


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## Scott (29 Dec 2011)

Hahaha, at least with NEXUS it's a security oriented pre-screening! At LHR you get the priority screening line based on frequent flier points. 

I don't _hate_ Air Canada, but I am not in love with them, either. This year hasn't been exceptionally bad for me: only had my bags lost twice and delayed three times. I've also been bumped to executive class couple of times and got that elusive Elite status that makes frequent travel a little more tolerable.

Seriously, anyone who moans about air travel within North America ought to give their heads a shake. 

In my experience, which is going on four years of solid international travel, the biggest problems at airports are the passengers. People who do not bother to educate themselves on things before they arrive:
-not knowing proper check in times for whatever particular airport you're traveling from.
-not being packed in an organized fashion that also leaves you emergency kit in your carry on.
-starting things off by being rude. Rarely have I seen a customer service agent be rude _first_
-not being prepared to enter security. NO LIQUIDS and, FFS, get your frigging electronics out and ready to be screened separately, it's been like this for a while now - don't tell me you did not know, if you had have prepared you would know.
-if you have kids then run a practice session with them. They'll think it's fun and others will not want to murder you.
-ask for help. I am in the same boat as you and I will help to anyone. Ask, seriously. Especially when connecting in strange airports.
-being demanding and impatient - the fucking plane will not leave without you so long as you're at the gate for first call.
-not boarding by seat and row number.
-getting excited because there are too many people in the priority boarding lane - having Elite status doesn't allow you to be an asshole :nod:
-monopolizing flight attendants time.
-bringing carry-on bags that defy the size of the carry on compartments.
-generally acting like an asshole.
-trying to intervene in on board disputes (no matter how much fun it might be to tell that wander off)
-go ahead, take your shoes off, I do. But please, for the love of God, leave your manky socks on to hold in the smell.
-respect personal space.
-*If this is your first time flying then please educate yourself and do not panic. Be polite. Say please and thank you. Show respect for others. It's kinda like kindergarten*

Most of all - do not make the lives of others miserable because YOU fucked up. Any idiot should know that airlines are unforgiving and that airports are literal minefields of potential delays. PLAN FOR IT. 

Now, to be fair, I'll mention what bothers me about Air Canada:
-indifference. I know you've had a long day, but this is your job (whatever it is, flight attendant, baggage check, gate)
-I would like the whole can of Coke, please. Stop treating it like it cuts into your retirement package when I want more than a mouthful of drink.
-show that you care by being proactive - when these dinks start crashing the line and frigging up the seating order and thereby delaying things and causing chaos...shame them! I have seen it done in London many a time. Shame the bastards and send them back to their seats.
-deal with customer issues promptly and personally.
-quit giving silly discount coupons to business travellers. I am smart enough to tell you I travel for business and my tickets are paid for by my firm...so I have little to no need for 30% off of wherever Air Canada flies between midnight April 1st and 4 am April 9th excluding certain destinations and only if there is a vacancy.
-SMILE! 

I, for one, would not want to see lessened security for anyone. You got a shiny card? Big frigging deal. Flight crew, catering staff, Timmies employees on departures level, they all have to go through security. It's a small inconvenience that can be lessened if you take some responsibility. Suck it up and arrive a little early and all your woes go away.

Edited to properly insult a group of people and not refer to them as plumbing pieces.


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## vonGarvin (6 Jan 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> -show that you care by being proactive - when these dinks start crashing the line and frigging up the seating order and thereby delaying things and causing chaos...shame them! I have seen it done in London many a time. Shame the bastards and send them back to their seats.


to be fair to Air Canada, I did see an Air Canada boarding agent do exactly this.  In a loud voice, she said "No, Sir, I said row x to y.  You are in row z.  You are going to have to wait your turn, the plane will not leave without you."  I think it was in Halifax.

Edited by Scott to call people something other than "sinks". Damn you, autocorrect.


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## Scott (6 Jan 2012)

Proper thing. If it happened more there would be less bedlam. I still don't understand why people act like idiots over a flight.

I have to edit our posts. My original and your quote fell victim to my Mac's autocorrect feature. Dinks turned into "sinks". Can't have that.

Come on, hit me with your Mac user trash talk.


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## dapaterson (6 Jan 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> Flight crew, *catering staff,* Timmies employees on departures level, they all have to go through security.



Actually, security for catering staff and other on-tarmac staff is minimal to non-existent.  There are regular reports of theft rings, smuggling rings, and other unsavoury activities going on behind the scenes at many airports.

We have security theatre at airports.


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## jollyjacktar (6 Jan 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Actually, security for catering staff and other on-tarmac staff is minimal to non-existent.  There are regular reports of theft rings, smuggling rings, and other unsavoury activities going on behind the scenes at many airports.
> 
> We have security theatre at airports.



I work in security on the side at a major airport.  The airport is under camera surveillance everywhere, and the ramp staff are subjected to security clearances to get their passes.  Of course there will be those who are of a criminal mind, when they are caught they are dealt with.  But to be fair, people are clever and you can't be everywhere or see everywhere at once.  I cannot think of one place on the planet that is safe from criminal activity of some sort.


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## dapaterson (6 Jan 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I work in security on the side at a major airport.  The airport is under camera surveillance everywhere, and the ramp staff are subjected to security clearances to get their passes.  Of course there will be those who are of a criminal mind, when they are caught they are dealt with.  But to be fair, people are clever and you can't be everywhere or see everywhere at once.  I cannot think of one place on the planet that is safe from criminal activity of some sort.



I don't disagree at all.  But the inconveniene and expense associated with the post-9/11 security theatre for passengers provides minimal additional security.  "Oh, look, people are taking off their shoes.  I feel safer."

A quick review of 9/11 shows that the most effective security technique is lions amidst the lambs.  Three planes hit their targets because we teach people to be docile and to go along with whatever happens.  One plane was brought down because there were lions amongst the lambs, who fought back.

The lesson of 9/11 should not have been "Take off your shoes, place your liquids in an approved plastic bag, and accept a high-school drop-out fondling your genitals"; it should have been "Kill the bastards if they try anything on your flight."


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## OldSolduer (6 Jan 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> One plane was brought down because there were lions amongst the lambs, who fought back.
> 
> The lesson of 9/11 should not have been "Take off your shoes, place your liquids in an approved plastic bag, and accept a high-school drop-out fondling your genitals"; it should have been "Kill the bastards if they try anything on your flight."



I heartily agree. To see grandmothers treated like criminals is....criminal. But we can't "offend" any one can we?


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## jollyjacktar (6 Jan 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I don't disagree at all.  But the inconveniene and expense associated with the post-9/11 security theatre for passengers provides minimal additional security.  "Oh, look, people are taking off their shoes.  I feel safer."
> 
> A quick review of 9/11 shows that the most effective security technique is lions amidst the lambs.  Three planes hit their targets because we teach people to be docile and to go along with whatever happens.  One plane was brought down because there were lions amongst the lambs, who fought back.
> 
> The lesson of 9/11 should not have been "Take off your shoes, place your liquids in an approved plastic bag, and accept a high-school drop-out fondling your genitals"; it should have been "Kill the bastards if they try anything on your flight."



My wife was on a Air Canada flight in 09 heading to London.  Halfway across the pond a Polish man three seats ahead of her started yelling for everyone to both get on the ground and move to the front of the plane as he had a bomb on board.  He waved a remote control around in his hand.  Now, mind you this was at about 0300hrs.  Most of the passengers did not respond to his demands, however, there were a number of British and Canadian servicemen on the plane.  They were on him like white on rice and had his shit sorted in about 30 seconds.  

Maybe all the passengers should be handed Tazers when they board with directions to zap the crap out of any hijackers, underwear bombers etc etc.     Would make flying more interesting at least.  But seriously, they should expand the Air Marshall operations and have them on every flight as a rule.


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## Scott (6 Jan 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> Actually, security for catering staff and other on-tarmac staff is minimal to non-existent.  There are regular reports of theft rings, smuggling rings, and other unsavoury activities going on behind the scenes at many airports.
> 
> We have security theatre at airports.



I wasn't clear. I didn't mean the guys who stock aircraft with food. You rarely, if ever, see them inside the secure passenger areas. You do see the ramp attendants, and that's fine and well. I was speaking about the non-Timmies food and beverage staff. Bars, restaurants, Starbucks, whatever. Could be extended to duty free employees, etc.

I am not arguing whether or not the additional measure make a difference. I am stating that if people would learn the measures before hand then they would not have such a hard time at the airport. It's not like they just spring this on you, it's been in place for a while with 'advancements" well advertised and reported upon. Most major airport's websites have directions on how to deal with it and what to expect. No one has ever fondled me at airport security, and no one will.


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## dapaterson (6 Jan 2012)

I don't dspute that people should inform themselves of what's coming.  It's just that we could abolish most of the so-called securtiy measures at airports to little or no ill effect.

And re: a lack of genital fondling:  Wait for it.  In certain airports you have the choice of full body imagery (and the related radiation exposure) or a complete pat-down.


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## Scott (6 Jan 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> I don't dspute that people should inform themselves of what's coming.  It's just that we could abolish most of the so-called securtiy measures at airports to little or no ill effect.
> 
> And re: a lack of genital fondling:  Wait for it.  In certain airports you have the choice of full body imagery (and the related radiation exposure) or a complete pat-down.



I saw all of the hullaballoo about the scans and the radiation. I think tinfoil helps ward it off. Seriously, it's not a huge amount, IIRC. I have been through the scanner at least twice now but lately it's either been shut off or the arrow on the screen told me to go elsewhere. Haven't seen them in the UK yet.

To sum up: I am not all that bothered by any of it.


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## dapaterson (6 Jan 2012)

My concern re:scanners is primarily o nthe testing and maintenance; I'm not confident that calibration and safety checks will be done regularly and properly.

And re: Security theatre: http://www.salon.com/2012/01/04/what_do_cupcakes_and_lightsabers_have_in_common/singleton

Apparently, cupcakes are dangerous - gel-like icing is a potential threat (at least according to TSA screeners in Vegas).


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## jollyjacktar (6 Jan 2012)

To be fair to the screeners with CATSA, DP they are given their marching orders by Transport Canada here and their American counterparts down south.  They call the shots on what is and what is not allowed.  Transport Canada has no grey areas, it is black and white on how things are done.  I imagine the Yanks are the same.


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## dogger1936 (6 Jan 2012)

I was flyin through Philly with my green passport.  Border agent was ex marine we were talking  real nice guy. two ladies start complaining cause its taking too long. He snapped.  "Can't you see I'm talking to a fellow service member" They quieted down real quick.

never had issues in any US airports

Heathrow on the other hand was unreal....


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## Nfld Sapper (6 Jan 2012)

Explain to me why the agents  in Halifax refuse to take an NDI 20 as valid government ID but a provincial drivers license is.....


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## Stoker (6 Jan 2012)

NFLD Sapper said:
			
		

> Explain to me why the agents  in Halifax refuse to take an NDI 20 as valid government ID but a provincial drivers license is.....



Happens to me all the time when I fly at Westjet, they say its because our gender is not printed on it. Transport Canada actually says that, however goes on to list Military ID as valid identification.


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## Stoker (6 Jan 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> My concern re:scanners is primarily o nthe testing and maintenance; I'm not confident that calibration and safety checks will be done regularly and properly.
> 
> And re: Security theatre: http://www.salon.com/2012/01/04/what_do_cupcakes_and_lightsabers_have_in_common/singleton
> 
> Apparently, cupcakes are dangerous - gel-like icing is a potential threat (at least according to TSA screeners in Vegas).



Funny that you say that, usually going through a metal detector with a pusser belt sets it off every time. I forgot to take it off last time I flew and it never set it off when I went through. I mentioned it to the screener and she shrugged her shoulders and told me to move along.


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## dapaterson (6 Jan 2012)

In the early 90s I trained as an airport screener, got issued my "Go anywhere in the airport" pass... and then the company realized they'd hired too many, so I (and a bunch of others) were told "Thanks, but no thanks."

Meaning I was not an airport screener, but I still had the nifty full-access pass for the airport.


SInce then I have remained underwhelmed by what we call security in many places. Over time I've learned not to be too aggressive in pointing out such problems - surprising as it may be, you can get labelled as a troublemaker.   :


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## Stoker (6 Jan 2012)

dapaterson said:
			
		

> In the early 90s I trained as an airport screener, got issued my "Go anywhere in the airport" pass... and then the company realized they'd hired too many, so I (and a bunch of others) were told "Thanks, but no thanks."
> 
> Meaning I was not an airport screener, but I still had the nifty full-access pass for the airport.
> 
> ...



I hear you, I know in Halifax quite a few of the screeners are ex mil and they seem the best to keep things moving.


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## PuckChaser (6 Jan 2012)

Only issue I had was with one TSA employee at a small airport in California. It was 0430, 10 people on the aircraft and all CF members. He proceeds to give us a lecture on how our bags are too full, and how he can't close them alone. I mentioned we've been living out of a duffel bag for a month in a hotel, and he then carries on about how we shouldn't be bringing a 60 of Crown Royal back to Canada since we'll pay duty (they were 30 USD, couldn't resist, duty would have still been cheaper). Every other security employee I've run into has never given me an issue.


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## Stoker (6 Jan 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> Only issue I had was with one TSA employee at a small airport in California. It was 0430, 10 people on the aircraft and all CF members. He proceeds to give us a lecture on how our bags are too full, and how he can't close them alone. I mentioned we've been living out of a duffel bag for a month in a hotel, and he then carries on about how we shouldn't be bringing a 60 of Crown Royal back to Canada since we'll pay duty (they were 30 USD, couldn't resist, duty would have still been cheaper). Every other security employee I've run into has never given me an issue.



Never had any real problems while I been traveling in the states. I noticed they do no frig around when it comes to security. On one trip when I was clearing in, I was actually upgraded to 1st class. The agent thanked me for my service and told me to have a nice day. I doubt if you'll ever get that in Canada.


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## OldSolduer (6 Jan 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Never had any real problems while I been traveling in the states. I noticed they do no frig around when it comes to security. On one trip when I was clearing in, I was actually upgraded to 1st class. The agent thanked me for my service and told me to have a nice day. I doubt if you'll ever get that in Canada.



Actually Air Canada did that for me once. Upgrade to business class. Very nice of them!!


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## Stoker (6 Jan 2012)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Actually Air Canada did that for me once. Upgrade to business class. Very nice of them!!



Air Canada too, good show.


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## PuckChaser (6 Jan 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> Never had any real problems while I been traveling in the states. I noticed they do no frig around when it comes to security. On one trip when I was clearing in, I was actually upgraded to 1st class. The agent thanked me for my service and told me to have a nice day. I doubt if you'll ever get that in Canada.



The funny part about the dude giving us a hard time, was that he missed a 3 inch pocket knife that a coworker forgot in his carryon. LAX security caught it, and we told them we were already screened at the previous airport and were pretty ticked off.

I had a CBSA employee doing a passport check in the jetway when I came from Heathrow and he looked at my mil ID, green passport and short haircut and said "Welcome home". I was the only person on the jetway as everyone else was scrutinized quite thoroughly.


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## Stoker (6 Jan 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The funny part about the dude giving us a hard time, was that he missed a 3 inch pocket knife that a coworker forgot in his carry on. LAX security caught it, and we told them we were already screened at the previous airport and were pretty ticked off.
> 
> I had a CBSA employee doing a passport check in the jetway when I came from Heathrow and he looked at my mil ID, green passport and short haircut and said "Welcome home". I was the only person on the jetway as everyone else was scrutinized quite thoroughly.



Nice. I flew out once after just getting back from sea and I had my kit bag with a pocket folder in a side pocket I missed as I usually check for that sort of thing.Went thru security and they stopped me for a drafting set. When back out and mailed it to myself, when thru the second time and they found the knife this time and accused me of putting it there to get it on the plane 
I got pretty mad and demanded to see the supervisor and we has a chat, in the end I ended up mailing that to myself as well. :


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## jollyjacktar (6 Jan 2012)

PuckChaser said:
			
		

> The funny part about the dude giving us a hard time, was that he missed a 3 inch pocket knife that a coworker forgot in his carryon. LAX security caught it, and we told them we were already screened at the previous airport and were pretty ticked off.
> 
> I had a CBSA employee doing a passport check in the jetway when I came from Heathrow and he looked at my mil ID, green passport and short haircut and said "Welcome home". I was the only person on the jetway as everyone else was scrutinized quite thoroughly.



I was returning from course in Norfolk, on a green passport with mil ID.  I was the only one taken off to the side and searched like crazy by the CBSA.  They also went through me with a fine tooth comb in Quebec when I came home from decompression in Cyprus.  When I was flying down to Norfolk for the course I was given the stink eye in Detroit, mind you, Chretien had just told Bush we were not going to join the festivities in Iraq.  I got a bit of stink eye here and there those two weeks.  Meh, maybe it's just me.


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## dapaterson (6 Jan 2012)

I've had things hit and miss.  Generaly, a CF miilitary ID makes entering the US much easier.  On the other hand, back before a passport was needed, I once made the mistake of trying to re-enter Canada using my CF ID card.


"Not valid ID."  I was told.

"It's government issue photo ID."  I said.

"Not valid ID."  I was told.

"Here's a laminated wallet-size birth certificate that could be from anyone in the world and provides absolutely no proof of who I am."  I said.

"That works."  he said.


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## CBH99 (6 Jan 2012)

I find it somewhat frightening just how "hit n miss" it is with US security at airports.

I had to take a last minute flight a few months back.  I didn't have anything except my driver's license, and a soggy/ripped/torn/crumbled birth certificate.  I slide the 2 under the glass window at YYC, the US Customs guy looked at me and said "What the heck is this??"  To which I replied...."Birth certificate...been in the wash a few times since I was 1yo..."

He shrugged his shoulders, and told me to have a good flight.  I find getting back into Canada INFINIATELY more diffiult than getting into the US (Which I don't mind at all).


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## cupper (6 Jan 2012)

And then there's the story I read recently about the guy who used a scanned copy of his Canadian passport to enter the US, and then return to Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/01/03/ipad-passport-scan-gets-montreal-man-into-united-states.html


However, it seems that CBP is disputing the story.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/01/04/united-states-customs-denies-montreal-man-allowed-into-country-with-passport-scan.html


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## bcbarman (8 Jan 2012)

In regard to the Nexus application, do not read too much into it, trust me, I have firsthand knowlege.

As for the Ipad scanned passport, all a traveller has to do is satisfy the examining officer that the person is who they claim to be, that their purpose of trip is legitimate and that they will leave the country after a specific time.  A Birth Certificate and provincial ID was all that was needed for years, and technically all that is needed to this day for travel from US-Canada and back.   Try that at the mexico-US border and good luck.


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## David1997 (26 Jan 2012)

Thats pretty,bad


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## Journeyman (27 Jan 2012)

David1997 said:
			
		

> Thats pretty,bad


What is "pretty,bad"....and why?


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## Colin Parkinson (27 Jan 2012)

Just flew allegiant from Belligham to Vegas, I think all their pilots must belong to the air National Guard as they really crank it leaving and coming into the airport. Service is decent and about 1/3-1/2 cheaper than Air Canada. My friend arrived at the Vegas counter with somewhat overweight bags, but since the airline just screwed over the counter clerks, she let it pass without extra billing, sort of a F you to the airline.


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## q_1966 (10 Feb 2012)

The way airlines are now a days, sometimes I feel its better to just save up the money and take the train, went Edmt to Van had a bed and incredible meals included in the ticket price, a nice way to relax


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## jollyjacktar (10 Feb 2012)

Get Nautical said:
			
		

> The way airlines are now a days, sometimes I feel its better to just save up the money and take the train, went Edmt to Van had a bed and incredible meals included in the ticket price, a nice way to relax


Train would be nice, but I only have two arms and legs for the price.  If they were more resonable in price I'd give them a thought.  On a side note, its about time now that the airlines have started putting the full fare price in their ads, shame they had to be pulled into it kicking and screaming.


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## kratz (10 Feb 2012)

Flying through Halifax, I have been almost always "been chosen for additional screening".
It's really annoying since it's the only airport that does this to me so often, but I just go through the motions.
This current trip I stunned them by opting for the pat down. They were not ready for that answer.  >


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## Colin Parkinson (10 Feb 2012)

Just flew to Ft St John, price was $1100 round trip. The screeners found my swiss army knife, I put it in storage at $7.00 a day, I was not able to get to the desk in time to pick it up on my return, so there it sits, now it's not worth getting it back and will get a new one. At the same time they missed the 2 cannisters of dog spray in my jacket pocket. I wasn't intending to test the system, just forgot to leave them in the truck.

Now for another $100 I could have flown round trip to Malaysia.


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## GAP (10 Feb 2012)

kratz said:
			
		

> Flying through Halifax, I have been almost always "been chosen for additional screening".
> It's really annoying since it's the only airport that does this to me so often, but I just go through the motions.
> This current trip I stunned them by opting for the pat down. They were not ready for that answer.  >



Is that because it makes them miss their morning coffee break? Is it a group project or something? 

Just asking....... ;D


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## RangerRay (10 Feb 2012)

I find going through smaller airports, I get the equivalent of a rectal exam.  I'm usually met by at least half a dozen security pers who make me take half my clothes off, go through my bags before going through the x-ray and ask me all sorts of questions (there is only one gate!).  Gotta be vigilant for terrorists to justify all that man power in Fort Bumf***, BC.

At larger airports, it is relatively quick and smooth.  :


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## Strike (10 Feb 2012)

On a slight tangent, I've given up on trying to book flights with Aeroplan.  They usually only have availabilities when the planets allign, Oscar the Grouch smiles and frogs start falling from the sky.

Instead, I have found that these points come in pretty handy for cruises - 12,000 points = $100 voucher and 59,000 points = $500 voucher.


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## OldSolduer (10 Feb 2012)

Never had an issue in Thunder Bay or Winnipeg, other than annoying security staff.


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## jollyjacktar (10 Feb 2012)

Jim Seggie said:
			
		

> Never had an issue in Thunder Bay or Winnipeg, other than annoying security staff.


I always thought it was supposed to be fun, not an issue to annoy security staff.


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## kratz (10 Feb 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I always thought it was supposed to be fun, not an issue to annoy security staff.



See my post # 46 above  ;D


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## Haletown (10 Feb 2012)

Remember the Air Canada motto . . .  "We're not happy until you're not happy"

Then fly Westjet.


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## aesop081 (10 Feb 2012)

kratz said:
			
		

> Flying through Halifax, I have been almost always "been chosen for additional screening".



Ah good old halifax airport.

The mat you step on that tells you which line to go to is not hooked up to some "randomizer" as it is supposed to. Its a guy with buttons, looking through a camera, that decides who get the additional screening.


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## dogger1936 (12 Feb 2012)

CDN Aviator said:
			
		

> Ah good old halifax airport.
> 
> The mat you step on that tells you which line to go to is not hooked up to some "randomizer" as it is supposed to. Its a guy with buttons, looking through a camera, that decides who get the additional screening.



I have not made it through that airport without additional screening. And I've been through there too much!


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## q_1966 (12 Feb 2012)

dogger1936 said:
			
		

> I have not made it through that airport without additional screening. And I've been through there too much!



Stop looking suspicious :camo:

Also United Airlines/Continental Airlines, you cheap B@$****$! you could at least provide a pillow on international flights! "There only for 1st Class" I was informed, I received one later but only because the flight steward was nice and it was on the red eye flight  back. Nothing like paying for steerage class. Also how about an industry standard...at least it was on domestic flights...a complimentary snack, not one I have to pay for.

Domestic Flights (Canada/US included), you have to pay for 1...count em 1 piece of luggage. On international flights they are gracious enough to offer 1 free checked bag.
I uploaded episodes of PAN-AM on my Ipod for my flight but I couldn't watch them, just too depressed.



			
				Haletown said:
			
		

> Remember the Air Canada motto . . .  "We're not happy until you're not happy"
> 
> Then fly Westjet.


I do prefer West-Jet but they need to expand Internationally, still not bad considering where they started.


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## dimsum (12 Feb 2012)

Air Canada International isn't too bad, but their domestic service is crap.  Qantas (which for some reason sometimes has 747s on the Brisbane-Sydney run, which is all of 1.5 hours) has at least a small meal.  And their headsets are by donation to UNICEF!


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## jollyjacktar (12 Feb 2012)

I flew down to Nassau to meet my ship in Aug on AC.  The cheap bastards don't provide a meal on those international flights anymore.  Credit card only, no cash.  Things have changed since my last AC international in 07.  If I could I would only want to fly Emirates.  They have to date for me provided the best experience of all the airlines I have flown.  South African Airlines wasn't too bad either.  Would go with them again too.


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## Strike (12 Feb 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I flew down to Nassau to meet my ship in Aug on AC.  The cheap bastards don't provide a meal on those international flights anymore.  Credit card only, no cash.  Things have changed since my last AC international in 07.  If I could I would only want to fly Emirates.  They have to date for me provided the best experience of all the airlines I have flown.  South African Airlines wasn't too bad either.  Would go with them again too.



They still provide a meal (and a free drink!) on international flights provided they are intercontinental.  Going to the US just isn't far enough.

My husband and I flew Edmonton to Istanbul and left from Lisbon to come back and we had meals and drinks the whole way...in steerage.


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## jollyjacktar (12 Feb 2012)

It was direct to the Bahamas.  Not long enough I guess, but they still had food service so it's long enough.


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## Strike (12 Feb 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> It was direct to the Bahamas.  Not long enough I guess, but they still had food service so it's long enough.



...but it's not intercontinental.


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## dogger1936 (12 Feb 2012)

I have to say when possible my family and I fly porter now. Excellent prices, good service/meals. And they have the porter lounge in Ottawa that has free drinks,snacks,coffee etc and a relaxed atmosphere away from the gates outside.


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## Stoker (12 Feb 2012)

I try to fly Westjet for my personal travel as they give up to four free bags, don't really see any other Canadian airline doing that! Most US airlines do it all the time.


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## Scott (13 Feb 2012)

The States and Westjet would be the last ones on earth doing it then, and recent third hand accounts from Westjet travel disagree with you...one checked bag only. Try getting extra bags aboard BMI, BA, and the like, and see what happens. Maybe if American Airlines were more concerned with baggage and weights, rather than making stupid commercials with Kevin Spacey, they'd be in better shape.

I've traveled enough now that one checked bag and one carry on is no issue for me.


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## Jimmy_D (13 Feb 2012)

jollyjacktar said:
			
		

> I flew down to Nassau to meet my ship in Aug on AC.  The cheap bastards don't provide a meal on those international flights anymore.  Credit card only, no cash.  Things have changed since my last AC international in 07.  If I could I would only want to fly Emirates.  They have to date for me provided the best experience of all the airlines I have flown.  South African Airlines wasn't too bad either.  Would go with them again too.



I have to agree with you about Emirates, but last time I flew it was first class, with medic. But it was no fun because of the medic flying with me saying "No alcoholic drinks," when the stewardesses are walking around with freshly open champagne.


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## ModlrMike (13 Feb 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> I've traveled enough now that one checked bag and one carry on is no issue for me.



The whole extra bags thing is a bit of a peeve of mine. I'm continually amazed at the amount of luggage some travelers have. I can go for two weeks with a standard duffel or suitcase. If I'm going on vacation, I'll pack light and get a couple of shirts etc at the destination. On the return, I'll sometimes mail my clothing back home as it's often cheaper than the extra baggage charges.

That being said, I still don't understand why one person needs six suitcases and three cardboard boxes to travel.

I have to agree with the other posters, Emirates is by far the best experience I've had traveling.


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## Scott (13 Feb 2012)

ModlrMike said:
			
		

> The whole extra bags thing is a bit of a peeve of mine. I'm continually amazed at the amount of luggage some travelers have. I can go for two weeks with a standard duffel or suitcase. If I'm going on vacation, I'll pack light and get a couple of shirts etc at the destination. On the return, I'll sometimes mail my clothing back home as it's often cheaper than the extra baggage charges.



 :nod:

Most of the problems with air travel today are not the airlines but the passengers.


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## q_1966 (13 Feb 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> I try to fly Westjet for my personal travel as they give up to four free bags, don't really see any other Canadian airline doing that! Most US airlines do it all the time.





			
				Scott said:
			
		

> The States and Westjet would be the last ones on earth doing it then, and recent third hand accounts from Westjet travel disagree with you...one checked bag only. Try getting extra bags aboard BMI, BA, and the like, and see what happens. Maybe if American Airlines were more concerned with baggage and weights, rather than making stupid commercials with Kevin Spacey, they'd be in better shape.
> 
> I've traveled enough now that one checked bag and one carry on is no issue for me.



I think that might be something like US military personel (insert some stupid clause here) get 4 free bags .
(more for traveling to a posting and things along those lines I belive)


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## Stoker (13 Feb 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> The States and Westjet would be the last ones on earth doing it then, and recent third hand accounts from Westjet travel disagree with you...one checked bag only. Try getting extra bags aboard BMI, BA, and the like, and see what happens. Maybe if American Airlines were more concerned with baggage and weights, rather than making stupid commercials with Kevin Spacey, they'd be in better shape.
> 
> I've traveled enough now that one checked bag and one carry on is no issue for me.



http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=597

WestJet expands baggage waiver for military personnel

Airline waives baggage fees for armed forces travelling for any reason

CALGARY, Oct. 19, 2011 /CNW/ - Effective today, WestJet will waive all baggage fees for military personnel travelling for business or pleasure, in uniform or civilian clothing, anywhere WestJet flies. This expands on a commitment made by the airline in August to waive baggage fees for military personnel travelling in uniform for duty.

"Having successfully tested our ability to deliver on this change with our process we are pleased to complete the program by waiving baggage fees for all men and women who serve in our country's armed forces," said Bob Cummings, WestJet Executive Vice-President, Sales, Marketing and Guest Experience.

WestJet will waive all baggage fees for any military personnel, including those from other countries, upon presentation of military identification. This means that any military personnel may travel for business or pleasure, in uniform or civilian clothing, with a maximum of four checked bags at no additional charge. However, items that exceed maximum permitted size or weight will not be accepted as these items must still be shipped via cargo. 

I flown on American and showed my Canadian military ID and my extra baggage fees were waived.


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## Scott (13 Feb 2012)

I applaud Westjet. You do realize that this still leaves the vast majority of the country paying for extra bags? (unless they are under a frequent flier program, of course) I don't know if BA, BMI and the like do it...but then again, I wasn't trying to speak about only military personnel as the thread is about air travel in general, or so I thought.

Travel to posting? I can get that. Coming home for leave (as was the case when I flew with a bunch of RCN boys from LHR)? Yep, got that too. Hell, I've lugged the kit, so anything involving duty and I am cool with that. But if you're going to Disneyland you don't need four bags. Christ, my wife made it to Scotland to spend Christmas with me and she had her purse, carry on roll thing and the suitcase  - she lived.


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## Stoker (13 Feb 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> I applaud Westjet. You do realize that this still leaves the vast majority of the country paying for extra bags? (unless they are under a frequent flier program, of course) I don't know if BA, BMI and the like do it...but then again, I wasn't trying to speak about only military personnel as the thread is about air travel in general, or so I thought.
> 
> Travel to posting? I can get that. Coming home for leave (as was the case when I flew with a bunch of RCN boys from LHR)? Yep, got that too. Hell, I've lugged the kit, so anything involving duty and I am cool with that. But if you're going to Disneyland you don't need four bags. Christ, my wife made it to Scotland to spend Christmas with me and she had her purse, carry on roll thing and the suitcase  - she lived.



Just saying that I appreciate the fact Westjet is supporting the military and thus I will give them my business over AC or Porter who I despise with a passion.


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## Scott (13 Feb 2012)

Hey, I'm a hardcore WestJet fan. I have never flown with Porter and I have my issues with AC, having flown with them every three weeks for the last three years. 

Since WestJet doesn't fly anywhere international except for sun spots we are all stuck with AC for international flights, for now.


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## Stoker (13 Feb 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> Hey, I'm a hardcore WestJet fan. I have never flown with Porter and I have my issues with AC, having flown with them every three weeks for the last three years.
> 
> Since WestJet doesn't fly anywhere international except for sun spots we are all stuck with AC for international flights, for now.


\\

I know sigh..., I cringe when the clerks book me with AC.


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## Scott (13 Feb 2012)

Chief Stoker said:
			
		

> \\
> 
> I know sigh..., I cringe when the clerks book me with AC.



Why? 

I fly enough that, according to averages, I should see a few fuckups. I've experienced two in the last year and both times AC made up for it to my complete and total satisfaction. 

The service sometimes annoys me...like why do I have to ask you to fall all over yourself to give me the rest of that can of soft drink? Are you paid a dividend for saving half tins of Sprite?

But, for the very most part, the problems I see while I am traveling are the fault of the travellers themselves. That is the constant overriding point here...to me, at least.


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## Stoker (13 Feb 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> Why?
> 
> I fly enough that, according to averages, I should see a few fuckups. I've experienced two in the last year and both times AC made up for it to my complete and total satisfaction.
> 
> ...



Some of the stuff you mentioned like service, the soft drink and the prices when I have to pay. I guess I get annoyed easily I guess. ;D


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## Scott (13 Feb 2012)

Nah, I get it. Little things.

Then again, I just flew from LHR to YYZ on Friday and had an awesome steward - mickeys every time he passed my seat.


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## q_1966 (15 Feb 2012)

Scott said:
			
		

> Nah, I get it. Little things.
> 
> Then again, I just flew from LHR to YYZ on Friday and had an awesome steward - mickeys every time he passed my seat.



He must of thought you were cute


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## Scott (15 Feb 2012)

Think I give a damn why? Free booze, no hassle.


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## kratz (19 Feb 2012)

I'm sitting in the airport three extra hours becasue Air Canada is behind in their flights, and I will miss my connecting flight. At least I was not put through a secondary search here in Halifax this time.


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## Strike (19 Feb 2012)

kratz said:
			
		

> I'm sitting in the airport three extra hours becasue Air Canada is behind in their flights, and I will miss my connecting flight. At least I was not put through a secondary search here in Halifax this time.



I know we all like to hate on Air Canada, but there's no context in this gripe.  Such as, are the other airlines delayed?  Are there weather issues?

Edited to add: just checked flights in Halifax and the only one delayed 3 hrs is an Air Transat flight.


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## medicineman (19 Feb 2012)

kratz said:
			
		

> I'm sitting in the airport three extra hours becasue Air Canada is behind in their flights, and I will miss my connecting flight. At least I was not put through a secondary search here in Halifax this time.



I always love how Air Canada does that without any kind of service anouncement...they just change the time on the gate that the plane is departing or boarding and then the attendant does a Ben Johnson out of there to avoid any questions.  Common courtesy - tell us the plane is broken, destination airport is whited out, whatever - people are generally understanding of that, but not changing without explanation, especially if it's going to be a lengthy process.  

MM


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## dimsum (19 Feb 2012)

medicineman said:
			
		

> I always love how Air Canada does that without any kind of service anouncement...they just change the time on the gate that the plane is departing or boarding and then the attendant does a Ben Johnson out of there to avoid any questions.  Common courtesy - tell us the plane is broken, destination airport is whited out, whatever - people are generally understanding of that, but not changing without explanation, especially if it's going to be a lengthy process.
> 
> MM



Agree.  Just flew AC back and in Toronto, they changed the gate on the Toronto/Vancouver flight randomly without telling anyone.  The only way most of the flight found out was someone happened to walk by and say "hey, I heard the gate changed."


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## Rifleman62 (19 Feb 2012)

They don't announce those thing because it is not in anyone's union contract to do so.


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## medicineman (19 Feb 2012)

Well, lucky for me, my contract allows me to fly with which ever airline I choose now .

MM


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## Colin Parkinson (20 Feb 2012)

Try flying with a firearm on Air Canada  :


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## cupper (20 Feb 2012)

Colin P said:
			
		

> Try flying with a firearm on Air Canada  :



I wouldn't think that they would let you do that, lest you take out your frustrations, and lodge a complaint about poor service in a meaningful way. >


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## mariomike (28 Aug 2016)

What going on in Glasgow? Is it time to install ignition interlock? < just kidding.   

Aug 28, 2016 

Two United Airline pilots suspected of being drunk arrested in Glasgow
http://www.680news.com/2016/08/28/two-united-airline-pilots-suspected-of-being-drunk-arrested-in-glasgow/

Saturday’s arrests come barely a month after two Canadian pilots of an Air Transat plane were arrested at Glasgow Airport and charged with trying to fly while intoxicated.


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## cavalryman (28 Aug 2016)

mariomike said:
			
		

> What going on in Glasgow? Is it time to install ignition interlock? < just kidding.


Perhaps the pilots were too enthusiastic when it came to touring the area  >
https://www.timeout.com/glasgow/shopping/glasgow-day-trips-five-local-ish-whisky-distilleries


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