# Chat Room on Christmas Day-2007/ Now 2009



## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Dec 2007)

I'm normally not a 'chatter' but I'm working 0630 until 1830 on Christmas Day so I plan on being in there during that time thinking that those of you whom are also away from your loved ones, might have a place to at least 'talk' to others in the same boat and share some comradeship.

Bruce


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## Nfld Sapper (20 Dec 2007)

That sucks Bruce, but hopfully you are getting double time for it. 

I might drop in to say hi 

:cheers:


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Dec 2007)

Double time and a bit more. :-[

No, it doesn't _really_ suck...I plan on getting the girls up at 0400 and spending over an hour doing the gift thingy.
To me, "really sucks" is not being able to be there at all,.....and I know there will be enough of that to go around.


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## Roy Harding (20 Dec 2007)

We don't know yet (scheduling at my wife's work leaves a LOT to be desired - don't get me started), but we strongly suspect that Wendy will be working that day.  And that's OK with us.

That will, of course, leave me alone with the dog, the cats, the Rye, and the computer - heaven alone knows what might happen.

I'm not usually a denizen of the Chat Room (I just don't have the multi-tasking mind required for it, as far as I can figure) - but I'll be sure to pop in and say hello to you, Bruce.


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## Nfld Sapper (20 Dec 2007)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Double time and a bit more. :-[
> 
> No, it doesn't _really_ suck...I plan on getting the girls up at 0400 and spending over an hour doing the gift thingy.
> To me, "really sucks" is not being able to be there at all,.....and I know there will be enough of that to go around.



Well I see your cloud does have a silver lining.


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## Nfld Sapper (20 Dec 2007)

Roy Harding said:
			
		

> We don't know yet (scheduling at my wife's work leaves a LOT to be desired - don't get me started), but we strongly suspect that Wendy will be working that day.  And that's OK with us.
> 
> *That will, of course, leave me alone with the dog, the cats, the Rye, and the computer - heaven alone knows what might happen.*
> 
> I'm not usually a denizen of the Chat Room (I just don't have the multi-tasking mind required for it, as far as I can figure) - but I'll be sure to pop in and say hello to you, Bruce.



Now there's a bad combination     ;D

:cheers:


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## navymich (20 Dec 2007)

Weren't you working last XMas too, Bruce?  I thought I remembered you mentioning something at our Guelph meet last year about getting your girls up early.


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## Roy Harding (20 Dec 2007)

The NFLD Grinch said:
			
		

> Now there's a bad combination     ;D
> 
> :cheers:



Depends upon your perspective, I guess.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (20 Dec 2007)

angelmich said:
			
		

> Weren't you working last XMas too, Bruce?  I thought I remembered you mentioning something at our Guelph meet last year about getting your girls up early.



Yup, my schedule has this quirk in it that it changes forward or back one day every year.....hopefully next year the extra day [Feb 29] pushes it away 2 days. Haven't checked yet...............


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## Mike Baker (20 Dec 2007)

I'll be in to say hi and wish those there a Merry Christmas as well.


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## medaid (20 Dec 2007)

I'll pop in to keep you company Bruce  that is if you want to chat with the likes of me on Christmas morning


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## visitor (21 Dec 2007)

Is it  possible to  be  on  leave and  simultaneously be the assisting officer to a family?   Seems like if it is not possible  to go visit family at  Christmastime, and one is busy with obligations,  it should not be counted as leave time.  Comments?


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## Haggis (21 Dec 2007)

visitor said:
			
		

> Is it  possible to  be  on  leave and  simultaneously be the assisting officer to a family?   Seems like if it is not possible  to go visit family at  Christmastime, and one is busy with obligations,  it should not be counted as leave time.  Comments?



In order to be on leave, you must have submitted a CF100 (Leave Request/Authorization, the "leave pass") and had it approved by your chain of command.  No leave pass = no leave since this is the document that authorizes the RMS world to debit your leave balance in HRMS.

There are provisions under QR&O 16.01 for "Witholding and Recall From Leave":

1) Leave may be withheld from an officer or non-commissioned member only when there is a military requirement to do so. 
    
(2) An officer or non-commissioned member on leave may be recalled to duty only:
    
  (a) because of imperative military requirements; and
    
  (b) when the member’s commanding officer personally directs the recall.
    
(3) An officer or non-commissioned member recalled to duty under paragraph (2) ceases to be on leave and is on duty during the period of the journey from the place from which he is recalled to his place of duty and during the period of the return journey if he resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which he was recalled. 

If you are on leave and the family that you are assisting officer for has an urgent requitement for your services, then contact your C of C for direction on how to proceeed and document everything.

*Bruce:*  I've worked losts of Christmases, both day and night shift.  Both suck, but the family has aways made the best of it.  Seems like you have a plan for this.  Good luck and I'll drop by "Chat" on the 25th for a virtual egg nog with ya!


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## George Wallace (21 Dec 2007)

visitor said:
			
		

> Is it  possible to  be  on  leave and  simultaneously be the assisting officer to a family?   Seems like if it is not possible  to go visit family at  Christmastime, and one is busy with obligations,  it should not be counted as leave time.  Comments?



As Reindeer Meatloaf stated.  The person should see their OR and fill out the forms to have their Leave "returned".   It is not too uncommon a fact in the military over long periods of Leave, such as the Christmas Block Leave Period.  The person will have their Leave adjusted and then credited to take later.


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## PMedMoe (21 Dec 2007)

George Wallace said:
			
		

> As Reindeer Meatloaf stated.  The person should see their OR and fill out the forms to have their Leave "returned".



Only if he actually gets called in for something.  I am on call until the 26th but my leave starts tomorrow.  Because I have to carry a cell phone everywhere, does that mean I'm not actually on leave?

Bruce, I don't normally do the chat thing, but I'll probably pop in too.  After all, I think the hubby and I only have 2-3 presents to open.  That won't take long!


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## armyvern (21 Dec 2007)

visitor said:
			
		

> Is it  possible to  be  on  leave and  simultaneously be the assisting officer to a family?   Seems like if it is not possible  to go visit family at  Christmastime, and one is busy with obligations,  it should not be counted as leave time.  Comments?



It just so happens that I begin duty here tomorrow in the aspect above. I'm on Duty until the 28th. I'm on "standby". I don't have to report to work, but await a call should an Assiting Officer be required (God forbid). 

I am on leave until 06 Jan 08. I have a leave pass. I'm still on duty, but I am at home. If I should get called in, the leave pass would be re-visited -- not that I personally would opt for that. I figure that for the 6 days it's costing me in actual leave for the whole 3 weeks off -- I've got nothing to complain about. The short days and the stats that are included on my leave pass cover my 7 days of "stand by" -- ergo really I feel that I'd loose nothing should I be called in, ESPECIALLY as an Assisting Officer. There are some things that just need to be looked after over the Holidays. Better me be on standby, sitting in my home drinking Timmies, than one of my cohorts be required to stay within the area to cover the duty period when they wanted to travel outside the 100km radius to see family and remain there overnight.

I'll head to NS on the 29th. Day trip. Someone's got to cover the Duty period -- someone else's family may need us.

The addy on my leave pass is my home addy ... and I suspect that is the addy on yours as well. THAT signifies that you were "remaining in the area" -- ergo why could you NOT be on standby? If your original plan had been to travel outside of the area at such a distance that you could not return immediately if called in -- your leave pass should have indicated such, and which would have signalled your CoC to NOT place you on the Duty.

Your CoC also has the option of placing you on the Duty anyway for a set time period ... thus preventing your travel outside of the area, but still not preventing you from relaxing at home on leave during that period. IF, and that's a big IF, you get called in ... your leave stats would be amended to reflect that. This is not an unusal occurance in the CF. There are many precedents of personnel being officially "on leave via CF100" who are prevented from travelling outside of the area to visit family due to their Units being on 12hr NTM etc. Telling you that you can't travel any great distance while on leave is not denial of leave.


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## muffin (21 Dec 2007)

I might stop in and say hello.  
The kids and I are heading to my parents Christmas day... but I will definatly be online at some point. I am hoping hubby has a few moments to jump on thje webcam and see the kiddies open their presents. 

This is their first Xmas with him away... so it's bound to have it's ups and downs.

muffin


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## visitor (21 Dec 2007)

So, it does sound feasible to be "on call" and not be able to leave the area and still use up your 3 weeks of leave time for only a few hours work now and then or not at all.    Bummer,  if your family and friends are across the country and you hoped to be home for the holidays. It's not so much that it is Christmas, but that  it is 3 weeks of vacation time planned to visit family gone.   We  cannot visit our soldier because at our end,  one of us is also on-call for a hospital. No drinking or traveling allowed.  Also no pay received if not called in or all the work is done over the phone, even if  the calls come in the middle of the  night.  Ho Ho Ho, indeed.

Sorry if I am a bit bummed out...   At least police, bus drivers,  nurses, etc. get holiday pay, which is recognition that they and their families are sacrificing their personal lives for the good of society.  And they are Off after their shift.  Maybe I will find a soup kitchen to volunteer  for  for Christmas, but then I would not be around  if the other is not called in.  No can do.   How many days to Ground Hog Day?


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## George Wallace (21 Dec 2007)

visitor said:
			
		

> So, it does sound feasible to be "on call" and not be able to leave the area and still use up your 3 weeks of leave time for only a few hours work now and then or not at all.    Bummer,  if your family and friends are across the country and you hoped to be home for the holidays. It's not so much that it is Christmas, but that  it is 3 weeks of vacation time planned to visit family gone.   We  cannot visit our soldier because at our end,  one of us is also on-call for a hospital. No drinking or traveling allowed.  Also no pay received if not called in or all the work is done over the phone, even if  the calls come in the middle of the  night.  Ho Ho Ho, indeed.
> 
> Sorry if I am a bit bummed out...   At least police, bus drivers,  nurses, etc. get holiday pay, which is recognition that they and their families are sacrificing their personal lives for the good of society.  And they are Off after their shift.  Maybe I will find a soup kitchen to volunteer  for  for Christmas, but then I would not be around  if the other is not called in.  No can do.   How many days to Ground Hog Day?



 ???

What do you mean by "Bummer,  if your family and friends are across the country and you hoped to be home for the holidays."?  Seems you are laying undue blame on the military for 'someone's' not putting in a "proper Leave Pass".

Then you go on to state that you can't leave your location because you are "On Call".  Excuse me, but why should someone else's being On Call be such a wrong thing to happen, when you yourself are On Call?

Next you go on about "At least police, bus drivers,  nurses, etc. get holiday pay, which is recognition that they and their families are sacrificing their personal lives for the good of society.  And they are Off after their shift."   First off, what does working a shift have to do with being on Call?  Second, members of the CF are fairly well compensated for their work.  If you don't think they are, like the police, bus drivers, nurses, etc. then perhaps in the next election you can do something to improve that.  CF wages are not dictated by the CF or DND, but by Treasury Board after the three major Civil Service Unions have all ratified their contracts.  It is in the end a Union thing.

I see from what I have read so far, you really don't have a clear picture of all this.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (21 Dec 2007)

visitor said:
			
		

> We  cannot visit our soldier because at our end,  one of us is also on-call for a hospital. No drinking or traveling allowed.  Also no pay received if not called in or all the work is done over the phone, even if  the calls come in the middle of the  night.



No need to be sorry, it is a bummer, but,with all due respect..........................are you out of your minds?


...and I'm sure there are lots of RCMP officers spread around the country whom may disagree with your thoughts that "police" get to go home to thier loved ones after shift.


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## emmiee (21 Dec 2007)

Sounds like Mr. Monkhouse has a party going on in the chat room. Let it not be said that I would miss a good time. 

That is as long as I can wear my P.J's and bring my coffee.


emma


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## armyvern (21 Dec 2007)

visitor said:
			
		

> So, it does sound feasible to be "on call" and not be able to leave the area and still use up your 3 weeks of leave time for only a few hours work now and then or not at all.    Bummer,  if your family and friends are across the country and you hoped to be home for the holidays. It's not so much that it is Christmas, but that  it is 3 weeks of vacation time planned to visit family gone.   *We  cannot visit our soldier * because at our end,  one of us is also on-call for a hospital. No drinking or traveling allowed.  Also no pay received if not called in or all the work is done over the phone, even if  the calls come in the middle of the  night.  Ho Ho Ho, indeed.
> 
> Sorry if I am a bit bummed out...   At least police, bus drivers,  nurses, etc. get holiday pay, which is recognition that they and their families are sacrificing their personal lives for the good of society.  And they are Off after their shift.  Maybe I will find a soup kitchen to volunteer  for  for Christmas, but then I would not be around  if the other is not called in.  No can do.   How many days to Ground Hog Day?



Ahhh, I get the feeling from your post above that your child is the soldier in question who is "On Duty." Any of the below may be applicable:

1) Your child obviously failed to put in a leave pass onto which the "address while on leave" .... was recorded as "across the country" and rather submitted a leave pass which gave his current addy for his place of residence at the location where he/she is posted at. Ergo -- why couldn't he/she perform a "standby" duty if they were going to be remaining in the area as their leave pass indicates? That's NOT the CFs fault.

2) Your child actually volunteered to perform this duty over the Holidays (MOST Bases fill Holiday Duty lists either with volunteers such as myself or those doing "Extras" -- meaning they have some kaka to work off). If your child falls into one of these two ... that's NOT the CFs fault. Also, people who volunteer (and I do not mean "Voluntold") for these Holiday duties are usually compensated with "no further duties for a year etc" by most bases. That seems like pretty fair compensation to me, and ergo the reason why I have yet to see a Base required to "Order" someone to remain in the area against their wishes to perform a Holiday Duty after 20 years of service, 3 enviornments, and 6 Bases; I've just never seen it happen -- or even heard of it happening (unless it was those "extra duties" people who deserved them for screwing up). I'm sure it probably has happened though in the extremely rare circumstance and that someone on here will be along to tell us about it shortly.

3) Your child was mandated by the CoC to stay within the area to perform this "Standby Duty" due to lack of "Volunteers" or "Personnel sentenced to extras". THIS would be the "Voluntold" circumstance. Sadly SOMEONE has to perform those duties over the Holidays and this situation is the Last Resort of the Chain of Command to fill duties over leave periods such as this. We don't get paid overtime -- we ARE paid 24/7 (you can confirm that with your child). Your child is also getting 15 working days off -- which are only costsing him/her 6 days from their annual entitlement of 20 or 25 days of leave (that entitled # depends upon their amount of time in). Seems pretty good to me!! Police etc -- take a day off it actually COSTS them vacation time. I suggest that your child isn't really making out too badly. The CoC will usually always tasked a married person who has their family at the base with them to "mandated Holiday Duties" such as this -- thereby allowing single CF members to get home to see their own families. Manadating a single person to perform a Christmas Duty when their family is on the other side of the country would absolutely be the LAST thing the CF would want to do. And, IF your child does have to go into work for a couple of hours or whatever -- he/she WILL get that leave day returned to them. THAT doesn't seem too shabby to me either -- given that it's only taking 6 for 15 in the first place.

I highly suspect that you and your child need to have a chat, so that you can determine which of the above is actually applicable to your child ... I also suspect that it is not number three. There's more to the story than you are receiving.

Vern

#3 is exactly the reason why I volunteered for my Duty ...so someone who did want to travel outside the recall area .... could (we don't get a year off duties here BTW -- for those of you who are wondering).


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## Roy Harding (21 Dec 2007)

emmiee said:
			
		

> Sounds like Mr. Monkhouse has a party going on in the chat room. Let it not be said that I would miss a good time.
> 
> That is as long as I can wear my P.J's and bring my coffee.
> 
> ...



Clearly there's a requirement for pictures here.

Talk to you on the 25th.  


Roy


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## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Dec 2007)

Ahhh..............quiet time................


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## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Dec 2007)

So far I've had about 10 visitors......however I must go for about an hour to supervise the inmates Turkey Christmas dinner. :-\


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## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Dec 2007)

I gu[burp]ess I shouldn't have had seconds........  :clown:


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## observor 69 (25 Dec 2007)

visitor said:
			
		

> Sorry if I am a bit bummed out...   At least police, bus drivers,  nurses, etc. get holiday pay, which is recognition that they and their families are sacrificing their personal lives for the good of society.  And they are Off after their shift.  Maybe I will find a soup kitchen to volunteer  for  for Christmas, but then I would not be around  if the other is not called in.  No can do.   How many days to Ground Hog Day?



My wife is a nurse and in 20 years and counting she has never received "Holiday" pay as per the Ontario Nurse Association" union agreement.
And she has worked many a Christmas shift, including today.      
TV diner anyone.


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## Roy Harding (25 Dec 2007)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> My wife is a nurse and in 20 years and counting she has never received "Holiday" pay as per the Ontario Nurse Association" union agreement.
> And she has worked many a Christmas shift, including today.
> TV diner anyone.



My wife also doesn't receive "Holiday Pay" - and she's working today (and tomorrow).  She enjoys it, actually - always comes home in high spirits - having done something for those less fortunate (physically) than the rest of us.

As for TV dinner - I'm cooking Christmas Dinner (as I always have).


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## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Dec 2007)

Hmmm, nothing extra for working on a stat day??  I thought nurses were more 'organized' than that?


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## observor 69 (25 Dec 2007)

Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> Hmmm, nothing extra for working on a stat day??  I thought nurses were more 'organized' than that?



I stand corrected Bruce.  Just spoke to the expert herself, all ONA stat holidays are paid at time and a half.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (25 Dec 2007)

Well just logged out.......about 20 customers I would wager. Just one from Kabul early in the morn.
Merry Christmas all.


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## Roy Harding (25 Dec 2007)

Baden  Guy said:
			
		

> I stand corrected Bruce.  Just spoke to the expert herself, all ONA stat holidays are paid at time and a half.



Mine's a "casual" employee (but can - if she desires, work more hours than a full timer), and some such rules don't apply to her.


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## visitor (25 Dec 2007)

I am sorry if I offended anyone with my post. I full well recognize that there are many today who are working without pay and many others without a warm meal or friends or family. Those who are sick and injured,  those who are alone and depressed. I  was  only  seeking information  in the Home Front in  the hopes of understanding how  leave and on-call work.  We are new to the DND.  We DON'T have a clear picture.    Is there a family liason that parents  can turn to for information?  

Thank you ArmyVern for your post and the information. Our son is the sort who quietly  does what is needed without regard  for  time off or for remuneration.   We raised  him to do so, but now that he does, it is bittersweet, indeed.  I can encourage him to get the time off he is entitled to, but beyond that, he is his own man.


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## Roy Harding (25 Dec 2007)

visitor said:
			
		

> I am sorry if I offended anyone with my post. I full well recognize that there are many today who are working without pay and many others without a warm meal or friends or family. Those who are sick and injured,  those who are alone and depressed. I  was  only  seeking information  in the Home Front in  the hopes of understanding how  leave and on-call work.  We are new to the DND.  We DON'T have a clear picture.    Is there a family liason that parents  can turn to for information?
> 
> Thank you ArmyVern for your post and the information. Our son is the sort who quietly  does what is needed without regard  for  time off or for remuneration.   We raised  him to do so, but now that he does, it is bittersweet, indeed.  I can encourage him to get the time off he is entitled to, but beyond that, he is his own man.



I don't think you offended anyone - at least not me.  We're sticklers for accuracy and clarity around here - that's all it comes down to.

Check with the MFRC (Military Family Resource Centre) at you son's location.  They MAY have some information available for you - or can at least point you in the right direction.  It doesn't hurt to keep checking in here once in a while either - this place is stuffed with information, both common and esoteric, which may help you understand what your son is doing.

Merry Christmas to you.


Roy


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## X-mo-1979 (27 Dec 2007)

Sounds like something I owuld have told my mother to get drunk and hang around girls I wouldnt bring home to meet her!

"Yeah mom sorry I cant come home,on call to man the duty center..." ;D

Seriously.

Or maybe he just volunteered for duty cause he didnt want to come home.Seems kinda fishy that if he was trying to get home and submitted a leave pass.... ???


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## armyvern (27 Dec 2007)

X-mo-1979 said:
			
		

> Sounds like something I owuld have told my mother to get drunk and hang around girls I wouldnt bring home to meet her!
> 
> "Yeah mom sorry I cant come home,on call to man the duty center..." ;D
> 
> ...



And I think that mom or dad (whoever is doing the posting down below) has already figured that it was a volunteer thing because that sounds like their child.

I've been volunteering for Christmas duties my whole career because Christmas just doesn't mean as much to me as it does to others (I'm an athiest remember). That all being said -- It was still hard when I called my dad on my first year in to say that I wasn't coming home because I was "on duty Supply Tech." To which his response was ... "What did you get in shit for?" He nearly died when I told him that I volunteered -- he asumed it was extras because, well because he knows me well.   I couldn't pull the wool over his eyes ... he's military. He knew it was one reason or the other.


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## X-mo-1979 (27 Dec 2007)

ArmyVern said:
			
		

> And I think that mom or dad (whoever is doing the posting down below) has already figured that it was a volunteer thing because that sounds like their child.
> 
> I've been volunteering for Christmas duties my whole career because Christmas just doesn't mean as much to me as it does to others (I'm an athiest remember). That all being said -- It was still hard when I called my dad on my first year in to say that I wasn't coming home because I was "on duty Supply Tech." To which his response was ... "What did you get in crap for?" He nearly died when I told him that I volunteered -- he asumed it was extras because, well because he knows me well.   I couldn't pull the wool over his eyes ... he's military. He knew it was one reason or the other.



That is hilarious!First chuckle I had all day,thanks for that!
My parents have hardly ever seen soldiers.And couldnt figure out why I was a Private for THREE years! Everytime I went home they kept asking me if I got in trouble etc. ;D
Now their all happy.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (16 Dec 2009)

..and once again the circle,



			
				Bruce Monkhouse said:
			
		

> I'm normally not a 'chatter' but I'm working 0630 until 1830 on Christmas Day so I plan on being in there during that time thinking that those of you whom are also away from your loved ones, might have a place to at least 'talk' to others in the same boat and share some comradeship.
> 
> Bruce



I will be hanging around the chat room most of the day.


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## danchapps (16 Dec 2009)

Will try to make it on at some point, just to say a Merry Ho Ho. Can't promise, but I'll make an effort!


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## OldSolduer (16 Dec 2009)

Chapeski said:
			
		

> Will try to make it on at some point, just to say a Merry Ho Ho. Can't promise, but I'll make an effort!



Same goes for me.


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## Bruce Monkhouse (24 Dec 2009)

Just a bump to say that there will be someone in "chat" tomorrow most of the day. 

Feel free to drop in and say hi.


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## wildman0101 (24 Dec 2009)

funny ,,,few months ago i was on aol... couldnt sign in to the chat 
room so id switch over to internet explorer and no probs with 
getting into chat,,, anyways got fed-up with aol and switched to
all canadian dial up ,,,tried signing into chat with internet explorer
and all i get is a white screen... weird huh ,,,anyway ill be on the
net if anyone wants to shoot the breeze on christmas day via 
messaging or msn messenger re my profile.. regards all
                                       scoty b


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