# Questions regarding COM RESEARCH.



## Dire (9 May 2003)

Hello again, Does anyone have any info about COM research?

Iâ€™ll tell you abit of my background so you can understand why I want to get into COM research.

After High school (2000) I didnâ€™t know what I wanted to do with life. I didnâ€™t really have the grades for University and I was really interested in computers.  

I attended a private college called North West Digital and it specialized in their Network Integration Specialist program but it was a lot of money. My friend and I did some research and found out that BCIT used the same course from NWD and the same inductors (NWD instructors) NWD was $1000 more than BCIT but BCIT had bigger classes and not enough â€œin classâ€ time. So I went with NWD.

Through them I got my A+ (computer hardware cert) N+ (Network cert) MCP (Microsoft Certified professional) MCSA (Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator cert) and 1 test away from my MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer cert) also took my CCNA course but still havenâ€™t taken the test to be CCNA (Cisco Certified Network *** ).

As you can see, I want to get into Computer Networking and Computer Network security. 

Right now the IT market sucks in BC and a young 20 year old cannot find a job (even at Future shop which Iâ€™m way over certified for). Iâ€™ve always liked the Military life style so I did some heavy thinking. The Canadian forces would be the best option for me right now in my life.

Anyhow.. I did some reading on the internet and found that COM Research is what I want to do. COM Research has different jobs in it and Computer Network Administrator and Computer Network Security is two of them. I asked the recruiter of I have a background in Computer Networking already wouldnâ€™t the army work me towards that? He said no and they move you around the different fields. I looked harder and realized that Computer Networking is a specialized course that you have to do more schooling for.

10 weeks BMQ
30 week COM Research (which doesnâ€™t include computer networking)

So what Iâ€™ am trying to say here is.. Since I already have this â€œSpecialized courseâ€ (which will probley help me get into the army) after I do BMQ and Com Research course wouldnâ€™t they set me up towards being an Admin or Security admin or train me a bit more since I already have more knowledge over someone whos never taken the course?


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## Dire (9 May 2003)

I forgot to mention that the recruiter didnt know much about COM Research and he couldnt tell me much.

So thats why i‘m alittle hesidient in beleiving him about not setting me towards 1 job since Microsoft Networks (Networks in general) is a pretty tough subject and required 10 books that are 400+ pages with 8 tests and alot of at work knowlege and book knowlege


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## Bert (9 May 2003)

The COM research trade, from my understanding, is more in the shadows because it falls into military and government security and intelligence gathering.  Check out the Canadian Communications Establishment at
  http://www.cse.dnd.ca/en/about_cse/about_cse.html   .

This is the link for the Communications and Electronics branch
  http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/commelec/occupations/occup_e.htm  

I think you‘ll get a general overview by some people but it may be tougher to get the actualities.  

I believe the trades that maintain networks and equipment are the ATIS, NET(C), and LCIS techs and CELE officers who deal with the technicals.  The COM Research trade is more on the intellgence side and information gathering.  Probably you know this.

Maintaining and administering the networks likely will not be a significant part of your job.  Engaging in network security, information gathering from a variety of sources and mediums, and work as an operator using communication detection equipment would be more significant.  Computers and networks you‘d certainly be involved with but not in the role as an general adminstrator or network support.

Contacting someone in the CF Electonics and Communications branch from the link above would be a good place to start to get more solid info on the trade.


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## klumanth (12 May 2003)

If you want to do anything with computer networking I would suggest ATIS or LCIS tech.  These trades also have signing bonuses while comms rsch doesn‘t.  The signing bonus means your starting salary will be almost double what it would be as a private.


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## Dire (12 May 2003)

Maven how do I go about finding more infomation on that?


When I was looking through the trades I only saw COM Research with networking and network security..

any info you can give me would be very helpful

thank you

-Brandon


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## meni0n (21 Nov 2003)

Hey,

Does anyone know when/if Communicator Research will be opening any time soon? I‘d appreciate any info.


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## Bert (21 Nov 2003)

Check out this site for more info:  http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/commelec/school/cfsce_e.htm  

GirlFiredUp may have given the school a call and gathered some info.  Perhaps if she reads this thread she could let you know.


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## girlfiredup (28 Nov 2003)

I spoke to a Sgt. Allen who informed me he was the boss of the instructor for the CommRsch trade.  My reasons for contacting him was to find out as much info about the trade.  When I mentioned the trade being closed and had been for quite some time, his response was "Is it?  I don‘t know, I don‘t work in recruiting".  Although he was helpful in answering some questions, I didn‘t get a complete understanding of what the trade is like until I dug a little deeper and got in touch with a guy that knows some of the CommRsch personnel had this to offer about the trade:

"From personal experience with these guys, I can say that if you like math and listening to funny sounds for long periods on end playing "what‘s that noise?", while staring at an oscilloscope, you‘ll do well. Comm research personelle are the code guys, the guys that find where you are transmitting from, the guys that can stop you from transmitting, the guys that will decode your transmissions. That‘s their job a little more specifically. I‘m pretty sure that they specialize after they arrive at their units after the basic course but, nobody in the trade talks to people outside the trade about the trade."

Sorry, that‘s all I know.


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## ers77 (16 Jan 2004)

Hi, I‘m currently an information system analyst and I‘m looking to join the armed forces.
The two MOC‘s I‘ve been examining are (as above) SigOp and CommRsch, and I‘ve been having trouble deciding which one fits the direction I want to go with my skills and career.

I‘ve spoken with the recruiters and checked the faq, but there are some questions still outstanding that I don‘t feel I‘ve got solid answers on.
Could anyone currently in these MOC‘s perhaps give me first hand knowledge when it comes to the questions and concerns on my mind:

- How involved with Combat Arms skills/courses and exercises are SigOp‘s?
- My advanced math and physics abilities are my shortcomings, would this directly and significantly affect my performance in either MOC?
- My concern with CommRsch is that it would be a continuation of office-isolation and zero "field" work.  Is this in fact the case?

There is a slightly less moc-focused question, and that is after my MOC training is done and I‘m on the job, how feasible is it to continue post-graduate education part-time?


Thank you,
ERS77


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## girlfiredup (16 Jan 2004)

ERS77, I‘m not in the forces (yet) but like yourself, I was interested in both trades and did my homework.  I talked to many people inside the forces and this is what I have been told.  

1. CommRsch - good luck trying to get in to this trade.  It‘s been closed for quite some time.  No one seems to know when it will reopen but the trade involves a lot of sitting and staring at an oscilloscope.  If you like math and listening to funny sounds for long periods on end playing what‘s that noise?, you‘ll do well.  Also, 291ers work in a windowless enviroment.

2. SigOp - as for this trade, it involves lots of field work...you will learn how to drive the LSVW - best friend of all sigOps, you‘ll learn how to be a det member (3-4 person team who operates one radio-post out of a van), voice procedures..etc..

This is what I have found out but I‘m sure others on the board can elaborate a little further.  I don‘t know if you‘ll find out much about the 291ers because no one inside the trade talks to anyone outside the trade about the trade.  They don‘t call them secret squirrels for nothing.

I hope I have been helpful.


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## kaspacanada (16 Jan 2004)

I‘ve heard commsresch get to do field work messing around with the enemy and a whack of other cool stuff...but then again I have limited insight.  I worked with a group from intel once and asked about this trade while I was in the reserves on a tasking.  If I could get them to ROTP any trade, from what I heard, I would have loved a shot at comms rsch.  Again, I think Girl‘s right, the trade has been closed more often than it has been open, but the best thing to do is to ask the recruiting office what trades are open.  Worse comes to worse, if you still want it, you can always try to get a remuster.


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## onecat (16 Jan 2004)

Hey GirlfiredUp.  I was wondering if you can go into more detail on your research of the SigOp trade.  Its my first choice, and I‘ve been some research, but more is always good.  

Thanks.


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## girlfiredup (18 Jan 2004)

RadioHead, your best best would be to contact a CommRgt and talk to one of the SigOps there.  They would be able to give you a better understanding of what the trade entails and what they do on a daily basis.

If you have done some research on it, please post the info you have found out.  I‘m sure it will be helpful to others.


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## Zlatorog (9 Feb 2004)

Ive been a 291er for 14 years now and its not long hours sitting in windowless rooms. Looking at O scopes ( I dont think we even have those anymore) I just got finished a tour in Afganistan and I was on the road plenty. Not to say there isnt a few rooms that are sealed tight. If you got any specific questions about 291 Comm Rsch let me know. llund@cogeco.ca. And last I heard the trade isnt closed right now. but then I have been out of town.


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## Pr0n (18 Jun 2004)

I have apply for sig/op.

Many of my friends do this job and really like this.

So i will probably love to


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## chrisf (19 Jun 2004)

Of course you could always just wait until an actual sig op reads this thread.

I can only comment on the role of a reserve sig op, but a reg force sig op has very similar duties, just usually more toys to play with.

There are two levels of communications, strategic and tactical.

Strategic communicatons are long range communications connecting higher command levels to lower command levels, say maintaining a link between Afghanistan and home. This can involve anything from parachuting into a theatre with a QRT that's just been kicked out the back of a hercules, being crammed into a mobile command post, to sitting in a nice comfy office.

Tactical communications are local communicatons, radio communications between troops on the ground, telephone operations, etc.

The role of strategic communications has been reduced in recent years with the advent of sattelite technology, but it still exists, and still fills and important role.

The bulk of what we, in the reserves do at least, is tactical communications. For a weekend exercise, this generally means we deploy in a 3-4 man rad det, set up the equipment, and maintain comms. What else happens during the weekend is dependent on what the nature of the exercise is. It could be anything practicing providing communications for civil aid, to a full tactical operation involving weapons and camoflauge, tearing down, moving, and settting up every hour or so just for irritation purposes. Very often a weekend exercise can also involve maintaining a link between tactical communications and the wider strategic communications network through the use of mobile or fixed strategic communications assets.

We also do "normal" exercises, such as time on the firing range, winter warfare training, navigation, etc.

In addition to this, we're very often called upon to provide communications support for other units/branches, be it supplying them with communications for their CP, or be it lugging a man pack radio through the woods with an infantry platoon (Most units have their own tactical communications means, but they're not always great at it, as generally radio operation is a secondary task for who ever is providing it within the unit in question... "Magic box! Bring fire from sky!"  )

On deployment, again, we're called on to provide either strategic or tactical communications, and depending on the situation, may also be called upon to act as riflemen, manning defensive posistions, checkpoints, patrols, etc.

To be honest, we don't do the hardcore "soldier" type stuff nearly as often as the combat arms, but simply put, we aren't combat arms. That being said, we're still fully able to and capable of playing silly bugger in the woods when we need to.


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## Jascar (27 Jun 2004)

There is now a working video for the Comm Research trade on the CF recruiting website with 11 minutes of info about the trade: http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/army/jobs_e.aspx#


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## speed400m (11 Nov 2004)

A few questions, yesterday I had my interview and medical and aptitude testing.  Everything went well I got highly recommended because of my education and for other achievements and athletic ability.   I would be entering in as Communicator Research Operator (291).  The interviewer told me that the pay is around 26,000 a year.  I am fine with this but I feel I should be able get the maximum as a private while on basic training.  

I would like to know how you work this out with the CF is it like any other job?  Any info or experiences would be nice.  

Some one in the waiting room told me that 291's get spec pay, what's this all about?? I know its more pay but how's does it work?
  

Also, I understand that it is shift work. Anyone got an idea of what the shifts are like??  Like rotating and start and end times anything like that.  

Hope I was clear and someone can help


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## meni0n (11 Nov 2004)

The pay scale is here http://www.dnd.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/NCMRegFPayRate_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28

It will go up each year so that's what 1 2 3 is for. So for 1st year as a private you'll make 2218$ a month. Second year you'll make 2712$ and so on. For spec pay I believe Comm Research is a spec 1 trade but right now you get it only after you do your QL5 and you have get to corporal.


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## speed400m (11 Nov 2004)

is there any way i can get them to give me the incentive pay cat 3, witch is  3258.   right from the start ?


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## hiv (11 Nov 2004)

speed400m said:
			
		

> A few questions, yesterday I had my interview and medical and aptitude testing.   Everything went well I got highly recommended because of my education and for other achievements and athletic ability.     I would be entering in as Communicator Research Operator (291).   The interviewer told me that the pay is around 26,000 a year.   I am fine with this but I feel I should be able get the maximum as a private while on basic training.
> 
> I would like to know how you work this out with the CF is it like any other job?   Any info or experiences would be nice.



Pay is dependent on your time in and rank and if your trade qualifies as a specialist trade.
You will receive private pay while in basic at the first incentive level and nothing will change this unless you have some previous service.

After your first year you will move to the next pay incentive for the private rank and again at the completion of your third year.

You can expect a promotion to Corporal after four years of service to the CF.



> Some one in the waiting room told me that 291's get spec pay, what's this all about?? I know its more pay but how's does it work?


Specialist pay is additional pay the CF gives to members in trades that have a high level of technical expertise and could allow to earn more money in the civilian world. You don't get spec pay until you have reached the rank of Corporal and have completed your QL5 course. Currently, the 291 trade is back-logged with Ptes and Cpls waiting for their QL5s so you might have to wait some time for this to happen. 291ers get Spec 1 and that's not negotiable.   



> Also, I understand that it is shift work. Anyone got an idea of what the shifts are like??   Like rotating and start and end times anything like that.


There are also many 291 day jobs but as a new private you can expect to be working shift. Typically it's a 7 on/5 off schedule that rotates between from days to evenings to midnights over the course of a 7 day period.


You can feel free to PM me with any other questions you have. I wish I knew more about this trade before I got in it.


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## neuromancer (18 Jun 2005)

Hello,
Im interested in the Comm Rsch position, full time.
My big question is "when is the next intake of new personel for Comm Rsch"?

Im debating on weather I should apply sooner or later.

I really appreciate this forum, its answered so many of my questions, thanks!  ;D


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## systemdog (20 Jun 2005)

Greetings,

I have a University diploma and 10+ years experience as a Systems Admin, Systems Analyst, Network Admin, Network Analyst, Security Analyst, Programmer.  I am wondering about the possibilities of being hired as skilled or semi-skilled in the Com Research trade?

I have been disuaded by the recruiting officers I have spoken with regarding this trade ... long waits to get in.... long road to advancement... not much action... etc..

any thoughts?

Cheers 

p.s. they all suggest sigops..... as a better choice as they are in demand however from reading posts I think Com Research is a better fit


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## tikiguy (20 Jun 2005)

Perhaps it might be helpful if current 291'ers were to list their likes/dislikes about the trade here. I think it would be interesting to do this for ALL trades, but let's start with 291 as that's my primary interest.  ;D

I recognize that some people's likes will be other people's dislikes and vice versa, but I believe this exercise will show us much more about the trade than the limited CFRC info does.


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## Lerick (21 Jun 2005)

forget about the money just get in....lol....if u dont like it quit or change trade after ur 3yrs!!!


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## 291er (22 Jun 2005)

Personally I think the 291 trade is an excellent choice.  I have'nt regretted the choice.  Just stay the course, the QL3 is not so much difficult as boring from the wait for your security clearance.  But it is worth the wait.  The most impressive thing about this trade is that it is so multi-faceted, there are so many different specialties and technology is always changing, so hence, we have to change with it.  
Unfortunately we can't go into great detail about our work, because the majority is highly classified.  But for the most part, it's a very satisfying job and in some positions, you actually contribute to the troops on the ground and make a real difference.
Slackers and complainers need not apply..... :warstory:


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## Lerick (22 Jun 2005)

do u have any dislike about 291 trade?


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## 291er (23 Jun 2005)

Well everyone is bound to have dislikes about whatever trade they are in......and they'll likely vary from person to person.  I guess the fact that most of us are posted here in Ottawa is a sore spot with some, but it makes sense to me.  But we also have some postings state-side which will open up for you later in your career.  The most important thing to remember is to not want everything at once....put in your time, soldier on, and eventually you'll get what you earn.........albeit good or bad  ;D

cheers


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## dk (20 Nov 2005)

Ex-fusilier said:
			
		

> the QL3 is not so much difficult as boring from the wait for your security clearance.  But it is worth the wait.



Ex-fusilier, I've been offered the COMM RSCH. Does this mean that my clearance is already done, or will I have to wait for Security Clearance after BMQ?

Thanks.


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## Pte. Bloggins (20 Nov 2005)

No. High level security clearances like the one Comm Research types need take a loooong time. As ex-fusilier said, by the time you reach your QL3 course you probably won't have it yet.


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## dk (20 Nov 2005)

Thanks Cpl.

Just curious though, what if after the training and QL3, you don't get required clearance? Do you have to choose another trade, or they place you?

I don't think I'll have a problem, I've had Airport Clearance for 7 years, and lived in Canada for over 16 years. But with a Middle Eastern background, anything is possible.


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## George Wallace (20 Nov 2005)

dk said:
			
		

> I don't think I'll have a problem, I've had Airport Clearance for 7 years, and lived in Canada for over 16 years. But with a Middle Eastern background, anything is possible.


Unfortunately, the Federal Government as yet does not transfer a Security Clearance from one Dept to another.   For example a Top Secret Clearance in the CF, doesn't necessarily give you a TS in DND (One of the guys I work with has a higher clearance as a civie, than he does as a member of the CF (Res) in the same Dept.  Same guy, same Dept., just different clothes.)   You will still have to do a Security Clearance.

Now that you have mentioned that you have a Middle Eastern background (I work with a guy of similar background who is running into some serious problems), can you safely list all your immediate family, dating back ten years, or until you were 16, along with all their places of Residence, and their Employers (with addresses).   Everyone, regardless of background will have to do this.


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## dk (20 Nov 2005)

Thanks for info. I know they can't transfer the clearances. I had to go through two separate sets of paperwork for a different airport, even though I had one in Toronto.



			
				George Wallace said:
			
		

> can you safely list all your immediate family, dating back ten years, or until you were 16, along with all their places of Residence, and their Employers (with addresses).



The Capt. At the recruiting centre already asked that info for my enrollment security stuff. All he wanted was my immediate family, being Parents, and Brothers and Sisters. If they require deeper into the family tree, I can get all the details, that's not problem.
Not to duel on the negative, but what happens if they cannot give the required clearance? Is all the QL3 and everything else out the window?

Thanks


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## aesop081 (20 Nov 2005)

dk said:
			
		

> Thanks for info. I know they can't transfer the clearances. I had to go through two separate sets of paperwork for a different airport, even though I had one in Toronto.
> 
> The Capt. At the recruiting centre already asked that info for my enrollment security stuff. All he wanted was my immediate family, being Parents, and Brothers and Sisters. If they require deeper into the family tree, I can get all the details, that's not problem.
> Not to duel on the negative, but what happens if they cannot give the required clearance? Is all the QL3 and everything else out the window?
> ...



If you cannot attain the required clearance level for your MOC........you will be sent somewhere's else ( i.e. another MOC)

This was written black and whit on my remuster message, No level 3, no employement. Plain and simple


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## dk (20 Nov 2005)

aesop081 said:
			
		

> This was written black and whit on my remuster message, No level 3, no employement. Plain and simple



Thanks for the info aesop081. Again, I didn't do a proper search. Found the Security Clearance Form thread where you talk about this...


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## Collin.t (23 Jan 2006)

Ok I never actually worked as a 291, but I did most of the QL3 and bailed out 2-3 weeks before graduation, 

why you ask ?, well the morse code really drove me nut, let just say that the recruiter didn't tell me much about the trade but no body really knows about it. 

I don't know the current state of morse code operators right now but when I left the stations were still manned with human operators but it was in the process of being changed to computerized translators. However the morse code is still a big part of the training.

From my studies in the sigint field and general military intelligence, the comm rsch trade can be a very diverse and fullfilling trade if you can stand the first 2 years.

When I got in what really attracted me to that trade was the networking/unix aspect of the job but in all honesty I knew more about computer networking than the Mcpl that was training us.

I really recommend that trade but you should be aware of what kind of field you are getting into.

By the way if you get in kingston, try as much as you can to get off base quarters, the barracks in kingston are nut (were in 2001), we were 4 per room for over a year and a half.

Everyone are going to tell you that they can't talk about the trade and all, which is true, but there are a few good books that you can read about the topic that will give you a background on the structure of the sigint (signal intelligence) field and everything related to it without of course going in details.

So go on amazon and try to get: Chatters, and a book from Mike Frost (take that one with a grain of salt)

Get some reading about CSE, CSIS too.

another good ressource is: http://circ.jmellon.com

If you have any question you can PM also


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